# Selkirk rex.. tell me about them



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

There really bsh looking im really interested in maybe looking into getting one.

Think i read something other day about you have to breed a curly to a non curly.

Is this a breed of its own or are they bred to british?

Any info please im in love with the short curlys.


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

As you know I am a lover of BSHs but the Selkirk Rex have melted my heart having such a cocky fun character. Monty , our Selkirk Rex, has on his pedigree a full BSH stud and his mother is BSH x Selkirk Rex. I know little of the breeding side at all but know that the gene that creates the Selkirk Rex curl is dominant. As this is a relatively new breed to prevent inbreeding breeders are allowed until 2015, I think, to breed to Persians and BSH bringing in the best of both breeds and to get the look preferred. Longhairs are homozygous for the gene, I believe, with the best show quality bred from a longhaired homozygous to a long haired variant. The shorthair, are heterozygous, for this gene and I believe are bred at the moment to BSH/ Persians. I repeat I am not a breeder so just have absorbed some info when I was looking into getting Monty. 

Selkirk Rex breeders generally don't like their cats being described as curly BSH, they should be distinctively different. A lesson learnt!!!!!!!!

Hope this helps a little.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Spid.. soupie where arrrr youuuu


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## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

our selkirk rex boy was bred from a british mother and a selkirk father.. however show wise.. he is too british










i dont think we have any pics of his showing any curls...


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

A baby bomb perhaps?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanx for that so your monty was a result of a brit dad and selkirk mum and was registered as a selkirk.

Im really thinking of getting one id want a short curl though..so what would i get if i put a short curl selkirk to a brit stood?if the curl is dominent id get all curls wouldnt i..and my studs dont carry LH gene well one might do but hes not the boy i have in mind.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> A baby bomb perhaps?


Now thats an idea probably too far though.


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## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

soupie is more for the long hairs.. but she could well be a big help.. i think shes at a show today (tica)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

rcmadd said:


> soupie is more for the long hairs.. but she could well be a big help.. i think shes at a show today (tica)


Ah right thanx..ah well no rush looks like i have some selkirk info to collect in the meantime.

so anyone with any useful info about these curly genetics chuck it this way please


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_my other half has also fallen for them, but he prefers the long coat,so we are also reading up and learning about them._


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _my other half has also fallen for them, but he prefers the long coat,so we are also reading up and learning about them._


What have you learnt then cm?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Thanx for that so your monty was a result of a brit dad and selkirk mum and was registered as a selkirk.
> 
> Im really thinking of getting one id want a short curl though..so what would i get if i put a short curl selkirk to a brit stood?if the curl is dominent id get all curls wouldnt i..and my studs dont carry LH gene well one might do but hes not the boy i have in mind.


Because the gene is dominant the cat may have one or two copies of it and look the same. If it has one copy, and you mate it with a BSH, on average 50% of the kittens will have curly coats.

If you are not sure if a cat carries L/H and want to know, the Langford can test for it. It's a check swab you can take yourself.

GCCF registration policy:
http://www.gccfcats.org/regpols/selkirkregpol.pdf


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Because the gene is dominant the cat may have one or two copies of it and look the same. If it hasone copy, and you mate it with a BSH, on average 50% of the kittens will have curly coats.
> 
> If you are not sure if a cat carries L/H and want to know, the Langford can test for it. It's a check swab you can take yourself.
> 
> ...


If they had two copys would it have been bred from two curly cats or not necesarily?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> If they had two copys would it have been bred from two curly cats or not necesarily?


Correct, it must have two curly parents to have two copies. But two curly parents doesn't guarantee it will have two copies or even that all their kittens will be curly - depends on their genotype, and the luck of the Gene Fairy Roulette. Homozygotes have two copies, heterzygotes 1 (e.g. they carry straight fur). Two curly parents could be:

2 homozygotes - all kittens curly, all kittens with two copies. 
1 homozygote, 1 heterozygote - all kittens curly, 50% homozygotes, 50% heterozygotes
2 heterozygotes - 25% curly homozygotes, 50% heterozygotes, 25% straight fur.

homozygote x straight - all curly carrying straight
heterozygote x straight - 50% curly carrying straight, 50% straight


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Because the gene is dominant the cat may have one or two copies of it and look the same. If it has one copy, and you mate it with a BSH, on average 50% of the kittens will have curly coats.
> 
> If you are not sure if a cat carries L/H and want to know, the Langford can test for it. It's a check swab you can take yourself.
> 
> ...


Interesting read that thanx.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

What happens after 2015? Can you then not mate a selkirk to a british?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The registration policy says nothing about 2015, nor can I see anything about it not being allowed to breed SR to SR. 

It does say the best coats are on the heterozygotes (straight carriers) so you are in the position that to guarantee all curly coats you need homozygotes, but you want to produce heterozygotes.

It does mention blood type testing (can be done with a check swab by the langford) and PKD testing.

To me this means you need to plan any SR breeding program very carefully and also cross your fingers for a gene test so you know what any kitten's genotype is before you decide if it's going as a pet or into your breeding program.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Now thats an idea probably too far though.


We are moving soon to near Bath so a bit closer. I have always travelled for my kittens. Bombs will be having shorts and longs and straights and curlies.



we love bsh's said:


> Thanx for that so your monty was a result of a brit dad and selkirk mum and was registered as a selkirk.
> 
> Im really thinking of getting one id want a short curl though..so what would i get if i put a short curl selkirk to a brit stood?if the curl is dominent id get all curls wouldnt i..and my studs dont carry LH gene well one might do but hes not the boy i have in mind.


It's not advisable to keep putting selkirks to british unless you want to make them look less persiany. They are meant to look different to british. British are based round circles and Selkirk's rectangles. There are some very useful PDFs on the Selkirk cat club website that explain the difference.



we love bsh's said:


> Spid.. soupie where arrrr youuuu


Here !



we love bsh's said:


> There really bsh looking im really interested in maybe looking into getting one.
> 
> Think i read something other day about you have to breed a curly to a non curly.
> 
> ...


It is indeed a breed of it's own - at the moment hey can be bred to either British or Persian but with an idea at getting that correct look which is neither British or Persian. Bomber is a Selkirk with Selkirk Mum and Dad, and 3 out of 4 grandparents Selkirk. The idea will be to get the breed to the point where outcrosses are no longer needed.



rcmadd said:


> soupie is more for the long hairs.. but she could well be a big help.. i think shes at a show today (tica)


She will be breeding shorts later this year.



we love bsh's said:


> Ah right thanx..ah well no rush looks like i have some selkirk info to collect in the meantime.
> 
> so anyone with any useful info about these curly genetics chuck it this way please


 I think this has been covered. But it's not advisable to mate curly to curly really as you end up with double curly gens cats and that changes their look considerable. They are very quirky and etherial. Useful for breeding with a straight though as all kittens will be curly.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanx OS and spid.

Spid there goes my idea out the window then..unless i get a selkirk stud too.

Iv already got 3 studs :crazy:.

My brain is a bit pickled atm so you dont breed two 'what?' together the hetro things?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> If they had two copys would it have been bred from two curly cats or not necesarily?





we love bsh's said:


> Thanx OS and spid.
> 
> Spid there goes my idea out the window then..unless i get a selkirk stud too.
> 
> ...


Lordy no! Despite what OS said - they do have an incredibly different look to them and don't meet the breed standard - so what would you be breeding them for??

SO Selkirk to Selkirk please, unless you really know what aspect of Persian look you want to get rid of out of the gene pool - so Selkirk to British is not the way to go, neither is Selkirk to Persian - unless you know exactly why you are doing it for the betterment of the breed. Too many BSH breeders think that Selkirk are just curly British and so breed them cos they look pretty and sell well, but that's not good for the breed. Look at Bomber's face. That's a good Selkirk face, not a British face. She is very slightly too Persian for me but her Selkirk stud is possibly a smidgen too far the other way (too British) so the kittens should be perfect.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Maybe i should just stick to the british.

I do like the look of the british looking ones though with short curls but that obvious why.And obviously that isnt their breed standard.

But spid you know more about them than me and if you think its a bad idea then thats made my mind up.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

A good decision I feel - but . . . Why not have one as a pet/ show neuter and see how it goes? You might eventually have both breeds.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah ill give that some thought thanx spid and others.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i did have a chat with a breeder, but got lost along the way when she was explaining it to me lol,we would only want a pet anyway.other half wants one just like joshy, lol., its good to do abit of research, i find it fascinating, even if i did get abit lost along the way lol.:crazy:_


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

My Monty came from Jan at Sheephouse, his mum is a GrCh Selkirk Rex, she has bred BSH for 30 years and is a judge of both I believe, I think she would be a good ear to bend if you were interested.

I found her so kind.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

just being nosey on pet4homes as ya do and look what i found a cp curly :crazy: ist she gorgeous and..a cp :nono: sara 

http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classif...ittens-available-now-saltburn-by-the-sea.html

Yep iv heard of jan as bex got a boy from her.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

Okay Spid has answered loads well done Spid. I don't want to cause offence but if I had a pound for every brit breeder who thought they would dabble and then gave up as mating their Selkirk to their Brit gave them curly Brits they couldn't sell and didn't meet the breed standard, I'd be rich.

You need to do lots of research - the club site has great stuff on the essential differences between the breeds and recommended matings and the 'look'. Talk to breeders at show, study pictures of cats at all ages etc etc. The girl you found looks okay from the pics but her pedigree has a huge amount of British in it - I wouldn't mix that pedigree with a Brit - I know one side of her pedigree incredibly well as her grandfather is full brother to Lottie (Bomber's mum).

You need to learn the pedigrees and lines and about how they develop and the best way to do that is start with a show neuter not a queen?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Soupie said:


> Okay Spid has answered loads well done Spid. I don't want to cause offence but if I had a pound for every brit breeder who thought they would dabble and then gave up as mating their Selkirk to their Brit gave them curly Brits they couldn't sell and didn't meet the breed standard, I'd be rich.
> 
> You need to do lots of research - the club site has great stuff on the essential differences between the breeds and recommended matings and the 'look'. Talk to breeders at show, study pictures of cats at all ages etc etc. The girl you found looks okay from the pics but her pedigree has a huge amount of British in it - I wouldn't mix that pedigree with a Brit - I know one side of her pedigree incredibly well as her grandfather is full brother to Lottie (Bomber's mum).
> 
> You need to learn the pedigrees and lines and about how they develop and the best way to do that is start with a show neuter not a queen?


Thanx soupie im not going for that girl i just it was arealy nice kitty.

As im only 2 year in with the brits i feel id be a bit out of my depth tbh i dont know how breeders manage with with 3 different breeds.

I remember taylor baby had 3 breeds didnt she


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

She is pretty yes and a great size for a girl 

It's tough to maintain 2 programmes - for sSelkirk breeding we use 'bad Brits' - the ones with ears way too big for BSH and with big muzzles not neat round muzzles also Brits which are too long in the body - Selkirks are rectangular not square etc

I would be happy to talk more and if you ever want to visit and just see the differences - I have a Brit too then you would be most welcome


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Do you really thats really interesting.

Thanx for the offer soupie ill remember that.

Got to get that pretty girl out my head now


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

colliemerles said:


> _i did have a chat with a breeder, but got lost along the way when she was explaining it to me lol,we would only wont a pet anyway.other half wants one just like joshy, lol., its good to do abit of research, i find it fascinating, even if i did get abit lost along the way lol.:crazy:_


Tell the OH he's got taste lol. In the looks department Joshy is perhaps a tad too Persian, though he, like all our other 3, is the result of a homozygous LH curly to a variant (straight haired) Selkirk. He and Murphy had a SH mum, Jack & Tiff a LH one. When you trace the ancestry back, the outcrosses on his side have more Persian than British, the outcrosses on the side of the other 3, more British than Persian.

He is, sadly, undershot which means he cannot be shown as a pedigree in GCCF (well, he COULD but it wouldn't be worth it as he would get withheld on most of the time) but he has the ideal Selkirk temperament, in that respect he is everything a Selkirk should be. Which is why he does well as a pedigree pet - WHEN the judge knows that they are looking at a curly cat and not a badly groomed Persian, of course :-( As an ambassador for the Selkirk temperament we like to think he is up there with the best, which is why he has such a fan club and has, to my knowledge, bless him, been the reason several people have decided to have a Selkirk


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Sweet can we have pics please


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Sweet can we have pics please


Of Joshy??


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

Joshy is a babe but yes leans too far to the Persian side in his head type - Carol makes the point about his pedigree influencing the look which is exactly why there is so much more to it if you are going to use outcrosses.

I breed Selkirk to Selkirk - I won't rule out outcrosses BUT I know my pedigrees inside out and backwards and understand about balance what will work.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> *Because the gene is dominant the cat may have one or two copies of it and look the same. * If it has one copy, and you mate it with a BSH, on average 50% of the kittens will have curly coats.
> 
> If you are not sure if a cat carries L/H and want to know, the Langford can test for it. It's a check swab you can take yourself.
> 
> ...


I guess the bit in bold is the bit I said that is wrong - the coats look different on straight carriers. How soon is it clear which is which in curly kittens?


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I could distinguish at birth in my litter OS. Typewise homozygous Selkirks (2 curly genes) are improving but they can be 'hotter' to the touch than heterozygous Selkirks and their coats feel drier and woolier. If you look at my posts in here with the pics of my latest kittens - the golden boy and silver boy is homozygous. I knew the golden was at birth and thought the silver was. The silver's type is not like a typical zygot so thought he might not be for a bit but he is and it became more obvious in the other ways before he left.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

There is also now a gene test to tell if cats are zygots or heterozygous for curl.


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## Sally k (Feb 3, 2013)

hi, sorry if i appear to be hijacking a thread but a friend of mind (knowing i breed, but not selkirks) has asked my advice on a blue tipped kitten wanted for show neuter advertised on pets4homes. 
The breeder has said she is show quality but i really don't know anything about the breed to advise. She has a web site but it appears to be down, so no other cats to go on. and from what i can gather she is mainly known for her bengals.
My main concern is the length of coat, she is a shorthair but i'm not sure how important coat length is on the SR.
please can someone advise as i'm totally lost


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Selkirks come in both short and long haired variety - so there is no problem showing either length as both are accepted. As for show quality I'm not experienced enough to ask.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Guess you mean this one:
Selkirk kitten looking for comfy lap. GCCF reg pet | Boston, Lincolnshire | Pets4Homes

Does your friend want to show? If she does then she should tell the breeder - although it's advertised as show quality they should know, as it will put their prefix on display. Otherwise she needs to see everything is in order. I have found reputable breeders on pets4homes - breeders I know through showing - so being there isn't necessarily a bit no-no.

Suggest your friend reads through the stuff for people buying kittens on the GCCF website and gets in in touch. Suggest she also mentions that the website is down.

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Also remember that Selkirks are NOT meant to look like curly British Short Hairs so if it reminds you a lot of a BSH it's not right.


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## Sally k (Feb 3, 2013)

Thank you both for your replies. Yes thats the ad.

Its pretty much what i have told her to do. I have tried to find out a little bit more about the breeder and her show history but can't find anything, so not sure its the right person to buy from as she doesn't appear to show selkirks, and doesn't seem to be overally helpful at first impression.

Its a long old hike for her to travel if its not what she wants so perhaps better to wait. 

Thanks again x


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I won't comment on kittens advertised as it would not be professional to do so. BUT this is my advice for people looking for a show kitten.

1. Go to shows and meet breeders and look at cats
2. Go to the club site then look at websites, look at the photos and show results.
3. Go to a breeder who studies and understands type and one who warns you that you may have to wait ffor a show potential kitten. They will show you adult cats etc with same/similar breeding and they will help you in your search.

These are breeders who want you to have a nice kitten - they won' t sell you any kitten regardless of type.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I don't know anything of the breeding side to Selkirks all I do know is they are absolutely beautiful. 
I would love one, they are just too cute for words aren't they?


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## Neelix (Jul 19, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> I guess the bit in bold is the bit I said that is wrong - the coats look different on straight carriers. How soon is it clear which is which in curly kittens?


Hi OrientalSlave,
As your question seems to have been ignored I can answer it for you. The way to tell curlies/variants at birth is by their whiskers, if kittens have long straight whiskers they are variants, if they have no whiskers or stubbly whiskers they are curlies. You can't really tell by the coat at birth as the coat isn't usually long enough to display the curl, especially in shorthaired kittens.
There is no such thing as a straight carrier, the Selkirks are either straight haired (variant), heterozygous (1 curly gene/1 straight gene) or homozygous (2 curly gene's).
Some Homozygous kittens are very easy to tell apart from Heterozygous when they are still very young, some not.

www.arktoscats.co.uk


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