# Toppy's off to the specialist this week



## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Toppy has an appointment at the specialist vets on Thursday. It's about 30- 40 minutes drive away. The first visit may be just a consultation or they could do some tests, not sure, so don't know how long we will be there.

At the moment, he is taking a liver supplement tablet first thing in the morning which he doesn't like much but he's very good and doesn't lash out or complain. The bad news is he then has to wait at least an hour for his breakfast as the pill has to get to work on an empty stomach....calamity for Toppy who lives to eat. He is obsessive about food and every time I go into our spare room where his dish is or he hears me rattling a dish, within seconds he's there. I've been getting up at about 6 to give him his pill so he gets his breakfast around the normal time about 7.

I weighed him yesterday though I don't think my baby scales register the same weight as the vet's as when he was there last, I had weighed him at 5.7 kg but they said he was 5.52 kg which was disappointing as he continues to lose a little each time we visit. I'm hoping if they do it at the specialist vets he might have put on a little as he's been on the prescription diet and the supplement for over a week now. I can't bring myself to feed him all dry food so I'm mixing it with high protein wet food.

So, watch this space and keep fingers crossed we get some positive news and find out what's going on and its treatable.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Lots of positive vibes on their way to Toppy.
Fingers and paws crossed that it is something that can be easily sorted.xx


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

Sending gorgeous Toppy lots of PF vibes.I hope you get some answers soon for him. 
Viv xx


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

Oh good boy Toppy, taking your medicine like a man

Good vibes on their way that the specialist can put him to right.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

Oh toppy what a big boy you are!!!
Wishing you all the best of luck xxx


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

All the positive vibes I can muster for Toppy. I really hope that they figure out quickly what is going on Charity, sending lots of love xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Sending lots of positive vibes to my favourite ginger boy:Kiss
Hope the specialist can find out what's wrong with Toppy and its easily treatable.


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## Jojomomo (Apr 16, 2017)

Good luck for Thursday Toppy sending lots of positive vibes 

Ones of my mum's cats got rather skinny, bloods have shown something's up with his liver/gallbladder so he's booked for an ultrasound.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Loads of positive vibes heading your way for a successful appointment on Thursday. Hope the journey isn't too long for him and the outcome is one you're all happy with.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Jojomomo said:


> Good luck for Thursday Toppy sending lots of positive vibes
> 
> Ones of my mum's cats got rather skinny, bloods have shown something's up with his liver/gallbladder so he's booked for an ultrasound.


Hope all goes OK and they don't find anything. Toppy's had two ultrasounds but nothing other than a shadowy bit of what the vet thinks is scarring.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

All my love goes with you on Thursday Toppy, be a good boy for your already stressed mum and try enjoy the car journey. 
I know the specialist will fall in love with you as we all have. X

Everything crossed this liver lark will be easily solved. Xx


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

All paws and fingers crossed for Toppy x x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Charity said:


> Toppy has an appointment at the specialist vets on Thursday. It's about 30- 40 minutes drive away. The first visit may be just a consultation or they could do some tests, not sure, so don't know how long we will be there.
> 
> At the moment, he is taking a liver supplement tablet first thing in the morning which he doesn't like much but he's very good and doesn't lash out or complain. The bad news is he then has to wait at least an hour for his breakfast as the pill has to get to work on an empty stomach....calamity for Toppy who lives to eat. He is obsessive about food and every time I go into our spare room where his dish is or he hears me rattling a dish, within seconds he's there. I've been getting up at about 6 to give him his pill so he gets his breakfast around the normal time about 7.
> 
> ...


Oh our darling, sweet, cheeky little Toppy boy.

I'll be thinking of you all, especially Toppy & especially on Thursday.

I hope the journey there & back doesn't stress Toppy out too much & he copes well with everything that the specialist does to him.

We all know you're such a good boy Toppy (we won't mention about the bird the other day), you just need to be an extra special good boy for Thursday xx

Sending you all tons of positive vibes for the whole day & lots of love & hugs xx


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Good luck for Thursday angel Toppy lamb. Such a good boy with his pills for his mummy. All possible good vibes for a diagnosis and easy treatment xxx


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## slartibartfast (Dec 28, 2013)

Everything crossed here and lots of vibes!!!


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Fingers crossed, Toppy. xxx


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Dearest Toppy, be a big brave boy on Thursday for mummy x
Milo and Suki and I send our love and positivity, and hope the specialist can shed some light on whats wrong so you can move forward xx


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## Willsee (Nov 7, 2020)

Best of luck on Thursday Toppy xxxx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

All the best for Thursday Toppy xx


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Good morning our little cheeky chappy Toppy,

I’m just sending you another little message to say I’m thinking of you.
Both of us have to be very brave this week as we’re both in hospital having different tests & things.
Please let the Drs carry out their tests as they are trying to makes you better.

You will be ok, hopefully your lovely Drs will have a few treats for you.
Treats are ALWAYS good !!!

I hope I’m able to find out from your mama how Thursday goes for you, but if I can’t (I’m in hospital myself as well, having surgery) don’t think I’m not thinking of you, I’am xx

When I can I’ll send you another little message either on Thursday or afterwards.

I’m sending you tons & tons of positive vibes & major chin scratches & head bumps.

Kisses from Me xx


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Hope it all goes ok tomorrow @Charity 
Be a good boy for Mum, Toppy! x


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Sending love Toppy, don't be too cross with your Mum when you can't have breakfast 

Hope all goes well @Charity xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Ali71 said:


> Hope it all goes ok tomorrow @Charity
> Be a good boy for Mum, Toppy! x





Mrs Funkin said:


> Sending love Toppy, don't be too cross with your Mum when you can't have breakfast
> 
> Hope all goes well @Charity xx


Thank you very much. I shall be happy if they can just give us a diagnosis so we know what to do.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Everything crossed that you will get some answers tomorrow and that whatever is going on is easily treatable. 

Have you got Pet Remedy to spray the carrier and cat with? 

Good luck with the visit - we will be thinking of you xx


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Good luck lovely Toppy. I hope you get a diagnosis tomorrow @Charity. I'm not sure how Bunty is going to cope without her Toppy to cuddle up with? 'Will be thinking of you all.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Best wishes for tomorrow , paws crossed you get some answers x


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Good luck today both with trouble free travel and a successful and happy consultation.
Sending a top up of positive Toppy vibes.


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

Paws crossed all goes well today Toppy 

(@Charity - might be a good idea to take one of his or Bunty's blankets with you so that you can rub it over him afterwards to diagnose that "vet" smell so that Bunty will know it's "her" toppy when you get home)


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Thank you all. Yes @huckybuck, have sprayed the basket.

@Bertie's Mum, Bunty doesn't usually react when Toppy comes back from the vets, even when he's been there most of the day. It's usually kisses all round


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

As always, thinking of you xx


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## Jojomomo (Apr 16, 2017)

Sending more positive vibes, hope you get some answers and that the journey goes smoothly xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Topping up the vibes @Charity . Good luck!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Thinking of you and Toppy. Hope the day isn't too stressful xx


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

Good luck Toppy, be brave young man xxx


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Good luck Toppy, be a brave soldier for mummy xxx


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Good luck Toppy x


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## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

Hope it goes well today @Charity , will be thinking of you all. Be a brave boy now Toppy!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

We're back home minus Toppy.

I needn't have worried about the journey and taking Purdey, both she and Toppy were brilliant. Purdey took no notice of Toppy whatsoever.  Toppy grumbled loudly for about 15 minutes then gave up and was quiet so that bodes well for future visits.

It was very busy when we arrived, I was taken off to a tent for a chat for about twenty minutes. @TriTri, shame you weren't there, the vet was Italian . He practically gave me a biology lesson about the functions of the liver.

To cut a long story short, today, they are going to do x-rays, ultra-sound, blood tests and urine tests (poor Toppy ). Let's hope something shows up from all of that that which gives the vet an idea of what is going on. I expect he wil be asleep most of the time. We are picking him up at 5.30. My only regret was he got whisked away without me saying goodbye.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I am so glad they have kept him to do tests rather than have to take him back again. Everything crossed it’s good news (as best can be) later. It sounds like they are being thorough with the tests which is good.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Well done Toppy and Purdey for being such good travelling companions. Nice sigh of relief in the car then!
I know he's having a lot of tests today but that will hopefully save having to go back again for them. Lets hope they will help get to the bottom of what's wrong.
Will be thinking of you, so roll on 5.30 when you can give him loads of fuss, even if he is a bit woozy.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Phew, that must have been a big relief, the journey going without incident. Hope today's investigations give an idea of what's going on with Toppy. Xx


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Hopefully after all these tests you will have an answer and paws crossed it is something easily treated .
Meeko says to tell Toppy to be grateful it is summer time ,he had to have an ultra sound once in February , Brrrr it was a bit chilly around his tummy


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

buffie said:


> Hopefully after all these tests you will have an answer and paws crossed it is something easily treated .
> Meeko says to tell Toppy to be grateful it is summer time ,he had to have an ultra sound once in February , Brrrr it was a bit chilly around his tummy


:Hilarious:Hilarious He's already got a bare tum from the last one which hasn't grown back yet.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

All the best vibes from us x


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Hope darling Toppy is ok, @Charity - it must have been a very long day for you. 
Thinking of you x


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Hope all has gone well Toppy, I’m sure you’ve been so brave xx


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Eagerly waiting an update. What a brave boy (cat :Cat). Well done Purdey too .


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Look what they've done to my boy! :Jawdrop It's very much the same on the other side.










At least he got a nice welcome home from Bunty










The vet said they offered him food but he didn't want it, well, as soon as he got home and I let him out of his carrier, he made a beeline for his dish and ate the lot so he must have been starving.

No definite conclusions still, we are having to wait for results of the tests which could be tomorrow or next week. The good news is there were no signs of any masses,which confirmed what our own vet had said. So, unless something comes up in blood tests or whatever else they've done today, we'll still be none the wiser which will mean having an invasive biopsy where they put them under deep anaesthetic in order to take a bigger sample of the liver. :Meh

The vet said he was a lovely boy and behaved as if to say 'just do what you like, I don't mind'.  That's my Toppy though I think he felt wearing a *pink* bandage rather degrading. 

The journey tonight was a nightmare, the roads were so busy and when we tried to come back, we found the road closed so we had to divert through half of the New Forest so it took a lot longer.

Anyway, I'm glad today is over, I feel shattered as I was awake before 5.00 a.m. :Yawn


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Welcome back home Toppy darling, that sounds like good news, I’ll keeping preying the bloods don’t show anything either!

Relax now, it’s all been an emotionally draining day xxxxx


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Aww you have been such a good and brave boy. I'm so pleased to hear that there were no signs of any masses. What a pain about the diversions, it's always when you don't need it!
Time for a nice cuppa and cuddle with Mr and Mrs T xx


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Charity said:


> Look what they've done to my boy! :Jawdrop It's very much the same on the other side.
> 
> View attachment 469724
> 
> ...


A *pink* bandage? . My dad always use to say you shouldn't shave cats, because 9 out of 10 cats prefer whiskas . Whiskers? 
Never mind . Bunty clearly loves Toppy lots n lots, furry or not ❤. Lovely picture @Charity. That sounds good news but shame more investigations are likely, you must still be a bit confused.com .


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I'm so glad today is over for you all, you'll be wanting your beds.
It's sounding good although still another hurdle with the biopsy so let's hope the bloods provide an answer do he doesn't need it.
Good old Topps telling the vet just to do what he had to. Stiff upper lip, or CBA?
Oh Purdey would have loved a run through the forest chasing squirrels.
I don't think he looks too bad with his colouring. It would be much more obvious with a dark coat. At least it's summer (!) so he won't be cold.
That's a lovely pic of Bunty mothering him. So sweet.
Off to bed now, and hope you get chance for a lie in tomorrow (fat chance).
Thanks for the update, we've all been on tenterhooks. xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Toppy says thank you for all caring about him. I think he's probably dealt with the day a lot better than the rest of us, taken it all in his stride as usual.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

So pleased that there were no masses and that he’s none the worse for today. I’m still keeping everything crossed nothing sinister shows up in the results. 

Have you considered not putting him through an invasive biopsy atm if all seems ok. I know he appears to be losing weight although I am convinced they can vary as much as 300g depending on time of day they are weighed and wether they have eaten or had a no 1 or no 2 even. 

Huck fluctuates between 6.0 and 6.4 but I tend to go on my gut instinct if he’s feeling ok or not. He’s eating well atm - has a good appetite - and I am inclined to think if he was poorly he wouldn’t. 

I have been feeding him that HPM food as it’s higher calorie so that he maintains weight as I know at his age he could start to lose quite a bit and they do lose muscle which obv weighs more.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> So pleased that there were no masses and that he's none the worse for today. I'm still keeping everything crossed nothing sinister shows up in the results.
> 
> Have you considered not putting him through an invasive biopsy atm if all seems ok. I know he appears to be losing weight although I am convinced they can vary as much as 300g depending on time of day they are weighed and wether they have eaten or had a no 1 or no 2 even.
> 
> ...


I don't know, I suppose I don't want him to keep losing weight until he gets to a point where he is actually ill. I meant to ask them if they had taken the ALP levels etc. today and I forgot.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think I would just be concerned that he could go through that and you are still none the wiser or that it wouldn’t alter his treatment.

How old is he now?
How much weight has he lost?
Do you think it could just be his age?
Or a bit of stress from Purdey’s arrival that caused it initially?


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh poor Toppy, at least it's warm  Oscar sends you warm wishes and hopes yours grows back faster than his did  

Paws crossed all is well. Hope you all have a good sleep tonight!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> I think I would just be concerned that he could go through that and you are still none the wiser or that it wouldn't alter his treatment.
> 
> How old is he now?
> How much weight has he lost?
> ...


Yes, I must admit I do feel that way partly. I didn't want it to get to the stage he had a biopsy, even my vet didn't want it as its so invasive.

He is nine now. I can see he has lost weight though it isn't a great deal each time. I know some time ago he was over 6kg then he went down to 5.8 in April and now he's 5.52. This only came to light when he had the pre-op blood test last October before his dental treatment, otherwise we wouldn't have known. I did ask the vet after if it could still be related to his dental health but she said no.

I don't think he is stressed by Purdey as he gives as good as he gets. I have also asked the vet if stress could be responsible but she said no.

Right, time to go and get his supper, he's waiting and watching .


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Really pleased to see that nothing nasty has been discovered in the tests so far, hopefully if there is something to be found it shows up in the other tests .
I hesitate to give my thoughts as I don't want to sway you one way or the other but I have to agree with @huckybuck ,are you sure about putting Toppy through invasive surgery right now.
I know this is a totally different situation but I was faced with a situation with Meeko where the next step was to have invasive abdominal surgery to take biopsies after lots of tests proved inconclusive .
It wasn't going to change his condition all it would do was give it a name .He had dropped weight from 5.5 kg to 4.2kg in about 6 months ,I decided not to have it done.
We , his vet and I , decided we would try to deal with what the tests had shown so far and he is now back up to 5.1 kg and doing well (touch wood).
Keeping everything crossed that you get an answer without having to do anymore tests.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

I guess that they took a small sample of liver and the fluid around @Charity ? That's what they did for Oscar and they saw the lymphocytes in the samples and we got the LC diagnosis (though Toppy still has his appetite, so hopefully not that).

Hope you hear today xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Mrs Funkin said:


> I guess that they took a small sample of liver and the fluid around @Charity ? That's what they did for Oscar and they saw the lymphocytes in the samples and we got the LC diagnosis (though Toppy still has his appetite, so hopefully not that).
> 
> Hope you hear today xx


I think they did, I just found a little pink mark on his tummy which looks like they did a fine needle biopsy. I hope that will show something up as I am coming round more and more to the fact we don't want to go ahead with a more major biopsy, which is basically surgery, if there is nothing showing at all anywhere else.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Charity said:


> Yes, I must admit I do feel that way partly. I didn't want it to get to the stage he had a biopsy, even my vet didn't want it as its so invasive.
> 
> He is nine now. I can see he has lost weight though it isn't a great deal each time. I know some time ago he was over 6kg then he went down to 5.8 in April and now he's 5.52. This only came to light when he had the pre-op blood test last October before his dental treatment, otherwise we wouldn't have known. I did ask the vet after if it could still be related to his dental health but she said no.
> 
> ...


When did he actually start to lose?

When I mention stress it's not necessarily unhappiness - just a change in behaviour - I just wondered if the change in bloods and the loss coincided with Purdey coming home. Being on higher alert or even being a bit more active because she's now around or not spending as much time eating, could all contribute to a change in weight.

Huck has had a slight change in liver bloods when taken at the vets but it tends to be the stress of going there that causes it.

Would you be able to try him on higher calorie food for a while to see if he could regain some?


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Well done Toppy, and I think a bald tummy is a lovely summer fashion statement. Everything crossed for the results xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

When he was blood tested early in 2019 everything was OK (before Purdey came).

We found out the levels were high in October 2020 (had Purdey six months then) when he had his pre-op blood test before having teeth out. Can't say how long they had been like it as no signs of ill health at the time.

What's incredible is that the normal readings for his ALT/P etc. levels should be 10-40 and Toppy's are over 2,000! Our vet said she has never seen levels this high and some very sick cats have levels much lower than this. It makes no sense at all. People keep asking me if the test results are accurate but he's had them checked four times now. Last October they were about 900, then they went down a little bit, then, after having him on the milk thistle for a couple of months, I was expecting some improvement but they went up to over 2,000. :Jawdrop

I really noticed a change in his weight/condition about three months ago. He was always stocky and I thought I was overfeeding him so I thought it was likely he had fatty liver disease - not the case.

Obviously life is different with Purdey. He was used to living with our previous dog but she was old and infirm when he came. I can't rule this out or anything else as I have no idea what's going on. There are so many possible causes out there, toxicity to something is another though I would think that would result in ill health. Honestly, I can drive myself crazy the number of things I have thought about over the last few months. 

My one question is - having now been like this for six months, if he has an issue, why is his health not deteriorating further?


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

When my terrier had liver issues, the specialist said “ Liver’s are the most complicated organs” my terrier also had high levels yet nothing was ever confirmed. This was 6 yrs ago, her liver levels are still sky high.

It must be frustrating for you though as you want answers x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I do think it’s odd (and good) that his health otherwise is perfectly ok - appetite is always a sign if something is not right. 

Will be interesting to see what the ALP were yesterday. 

Have you thought about a microchip feeder and free feeding his kibble for a while to see if he can gain a little bit?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> I do think it's odd (and good) that his health otherwise is perfectly ok - appetite is always a sign if something is not right.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what the ALP were yesterday.
> 
> Have you thought about a microchip feeder and free feeding his kibble for a while to see if he can gain a little bit?


Already got a microchip feeder though he scoffs everything in one go always. I don't want to overfeed on the kibble as its prescription food.s

I phoned the specialist vets this morning and asked them to send me a copy of their notes on what they did yesterday. The receptionist said they have sent a letter to my vet so she would send me a copy which she did right away. I understand all the bits which say things are OK but don't understand test results so I phoned my vets to ask if my vet could interpret it. She will hopefully phone me at the end of the day, otherwise next week when she's in.

I'm interested to see if there's been a change to AL? results. I'll tell you more when I know.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

UPDATE

The specialist vets sent me a copy of the letter to my vets on Friday. I phoned my vet to discuss it and ask to interpret some of the results I couldn't understand but she hadn't seen the letter and said she would ring me this week when she'd received it. The ultrascan and x-rays were normal, they did a fine needle aspirate biopsy which had been sent away for testing along with other tests. They weighed him and he was 5.5kg, much the same as last week. Anything else they did appeared normal though one or two things I couldn't understand. I did pick up from their results that they had written 'moderate elevation ALT 388 u/l). If that was the same ALT as the one's my vet was taking, that was a lot different to over 2,000. ??

Fast forward to today. The specialist vet also rang me this morning with further results though they are still waiting for one relating to pancreatitis, and, basically, he said there appears to be a small amount of inflammation to the lymphocytes. This means its possible Toppy has

1. Lymphocytic cholangitis in the biliary tract
2. Chronic inflammation due to bacteria
3. Lymphoma though he thinks this is unlikely

The next step is the invasive biopsy so I asked him, if he thinks its either no. 1 or 2, could we not treat that with some medication and see if it makes a difference and levels come down. I had asked my vet some weeks ago if we could just give antibiotics on the basis it might be an infection to see if they made a difference but it didn't happen. The specialist was a bit reticent as he doesn't want things to progress to a point where he gets worse and it may not be reversible so he favours the biopsy now....made me laugh as we've been waiting six months for a diagnosis with no treatment. Anyway, he agreed to giving him antibiotics and steroids for three weeks and then he would re-test his bloods so that's where we are at the moment. He said he would write to my vet today advising her of the findings and what we had discussed.

A while later I had an e-mail from my vet telling me she still hadn't received any information from them so I've sent her a copy of my copy of the first letter and informed her the specialist vet will be writing to her again today. I told her I am keen to get treatment going as soon as possible. Now I have to wait for her to get all the information and contact me again in a few days hopefully. Watch this space.


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

I've been away so just caught up on poor Toppy. Bless his heart. Sending him all the love with lots of strokes and kisses and I really hope you get some answers soon. Xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

I've been preoccupied the past few days (boiler problems!:Arghh), so another who's only just caught up. Really hope the ABs do the trick.
Love, as always, to darling Toppy:Kiss


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

I hope you find some answers soon. Love and purrs Toppy x x


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Think you are right to try medication before opting for the invasive biopsy. I would keep right on them to get the meds issued ASAP. Hugs to you both xx


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

@Charity , thanks for the update. I'm glad for you that you've got a bit more time now before the biopsy as I know you didn't want him to have something so invasive if it could be avoided. So really keeping everything crossed that his new meds (when you get them) will do the trick and it turns out to be an infection.
Poor Toppers, he's such a good boy with all the poking and prodding he's had. xx


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Definitely the right decision to try the Antibiotics first. Keeping all crossed it’s inflammation from an infection, which were your initial thoughts! X


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## slartibartfast (Dec 28, 2013)

Sending healing vibes and purrs, everything crossed here for our sweet Toppy!


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh Toppy! If you have lymphocytic cholangitis you and Oscar can be poorly liver buddies! Ursodiol and steroids for Oscar has made a big difference for his LC, without them he wouldn’t be here I’m sure. 

I hope that’s “all” it is xx


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## Jojomomo (Apr 16, 2017)

I'm glad you have some more information and Allan of action, fingers crossed the antibiotics and steroids help and that Toppy doesn't need his tummy shaved again!

It's odd that the ALT levels from the 2 vets were so different, I wonder if they use the same units.

Sam, my mum's cat, has had his ultrasound which was clear. He also had a high WCC so was started on antibiotics which have helped, he's gained some weight.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Jojomomo said:


> I'm glad you have some more information and Allan of action, fingers crossed the antibiotics and steroids help and that Toppy doesn't need his tummy shaved again!
> 
> It's odd that the ALT levels from the 2 vets were so different, I wonder if they use the same units.
> 
> Sam, my mum's cat, has had his ultrasound which was clear. He also had a high WCC so was started on antibiotics which have helped, he's gained some weight.


Glad Sam's ultrasound was clear and I'm glad the antibiotics have helped and his weight is better. Wish my vet had done this to start with.



Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh Toppy! If you have lymphocytic cholangitis you and Oscar can be poorly liver buddies! Ursodiol and steroids for Oscar has made a big difference for his LC, without them he wouldn't be here I'm sure.
> 
> I hope that's "all" it is xx


Oscar, you and I will swop notes sometime, we'll know more about liver issues than our vets soon. 

My vet phoned again a while ago. I think she agrees with my decision as she was never in favour of the more evasive biopsy. She has sent me a copy of the specialist's 2nd letter which she got this afternoon. I'm picking up the antbiotics tomorrow and the other tablets she has to order in.

I did mention the ALT levels to her and, from what she said, it does appear they have gone down from the 2000+ to 388, still high but much better. I don't know if its the prescription diet and tablets I've been giving him for about 10 days or something else. Good news whatever.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh that is very good news!

I don’t know what it is with specialist vets but they do sometimes come across as a bit gung ho. I guess it’s because they know the text book but I do think the owners gut instincts should play a part in the diagnosis/treatment. 

I always regret sending Little H for investigation into his gutteral noises (possible polyps) when he was little. After quite invasive procedures the results were still pretty inconclusive and the vet diagnosed “possible” allergic asthma and he was prescribed inhalers. We never got round to giving him the meds in the end and touch wood 5 years later he has never had an attack (though he still makes funny noises) I was never convinced....


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Hoping the ABs do the trick and it’s just a long term/recurrent infection that wouldn’t shift. 

Does he chew anything in the garden that potentially could be slightly toxic?


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Charity said:


> Glad Sam's ultrasound was clear and I'm glad the antibiotics have helped and his weight is better. Wish my vet had done this to start with.
> 
> Oscar, you and I will swop notes sometime, we'll know more about liver issues than our vets soon.
> 
> ...


That's good news. Just keep on doing what you are doing, plus the antibiotics, steroids, more Bunty kisses :Kiss & the sunshine. Keep us updated please.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> Hoping the ABs do the trick and it's just a long term/recurrent infection that wouldn't shift.
> 
> Does he chew anything in the garden that potentially could be slightly toxic?


Don't get me started on this @huckybuck . When my vet spoke to a vet at the laboratory where the blood tests were taken, he suggested that if there was no obvious medical evidence, it could possibly be something in the household. I've been saying for a while, and @ewelsh will bear this out as I've bent her ear a lot about it, that I wondered if it could be linked to the fact that he goes to the loo a lot in my flower pots which have compost in them plus there's compost and plant food etc in the soil which contains things like nitrogen, iron etc. For a normal cat, it wouldn't be an issue but, as I've mentioned before, Toppy is an obsessive digger and he comes into the house with his nails absolutely full of dirt which he is obviously going to lick clean. Because I've got this in my head, the last few weeks I've been washing his paws when he comes indoors so he isn't ingesting it.

I also read last week about the hazards of pine wood litter which can contain phenols which are toxic to cats and dogs and affects their liver. I've been using that for years in their litter trays so I've changed to paper litter.

No-one is listening when I put these theories out as a possibility in the absence of anything else. My OH argues that other cats would have the same problem if that were the case, the vet says vaguely 'yes, maybe' then dismisses it instantly and me as a desperate owner clutching at straws, but, surely, if you can't find an answer you have to consider anything, not matter how stupid it may sound. 

Stress is another theory, I've read that it can cause certain problems linked to the liver but, ask the vet, and no it couldn't be stress.

I'm going to shut up now or I'll get wound up. :Banghead


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

huckybuck said:


> I don't know what it is with specialist vets but they do sometimes come across as a bit gung ho. I guess it's because they know the text book but I do think the owners gut instincts should play a part in the diagnosis/treatment.


I couldn't agree more with this @huckybuck look at my Spaniel last year, cancer they said, put her on medication they said, I followed my gut instincts also pointed out the fact that, no medical analysis proved she had cancer and so refused. Still nothing, she is fine, yet according to all these scientists, she should have died last year.

Yes I can confirm @Charity has analysed every possible cause, she even contacted the compost company in fairness, Toppy has to have the cleanest paws of any cat. Now his levels have dropped 

Stress with any animal, humans too, can cause all sorts of medical mysteries. As for thisLymphocytic cholangitis well that's white blood cells, they play havoc with the immunity also caused from stress. I know this first hand, as I had this, which caused killer cells in me for fertility!

I still think it's an outside issue and prey AB fix it. X


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Just thinking out loud when things don’t seem to tie together lol - Charity knows Toppy better than anyone so her instincts have to count for something. 

If he was a severely ill cat surely he would have lost his appetite and /or have other symptoms? 

I do wonder if just the change in his home environment (with Purdey’s arrival) and him maybe staying outside a bit more, not eating his meals at the same time as before, perhaps eating little and often and monitoring what’s going on with Purdey would be enough to change his stress levels/weight. 

Mum bought her rabbit to stay for a few days and I know that while he was here the cats eating habits changed a bit. I actually think they are a bit less as too busy keeping an eye on him. I can’t say they were “stressed” by him but it did change their routine somewhat. 

Equally if Toppy is spending a bit more time outside he could be being exposed to stuff that could be irritating him. Have you put any new plants in over the last year or so that he could be nibbling on?


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Praying that the antibiotics work for Toppy so you don't have to go for the invasive option. 
I remember when Milo had a couple of "episodes" with his liver, they were going to do a scan and the next option was specialists, but they decided to try AB's and they did work. I've just fished out the email (from 2016) which may or may not help or give hope:


"Less appetant and a little quiet last 4 days, one episode soft faeces, gives the impression of nausea. Mild dental tartar and gingivitis but otherwise physical exam unremarkable. Blood tests show reduced neutrophils, a white blood cell used to fight infection. Also increased ALT (alanine aminotransferase), ALKP (alkaline phosphatase), GGT (gamma glutamyl transferase) and TBIL (total bilirubin) reflecting liver damage or inflammation of the bile duct.


I've spoken to Rob Foale at Dick White Referrals in Newmarket who suspects an infectious cause of the liver/biliary system changes and agrees that we should start antibiotics. If Milo is not improving he suggests they see him early next week with a view to ultrasound of the abdomen under sedation, liver biopsies could be taken if deemed necessary. He suggested we rule out hyperthyroidism so I have run this test in house and Milo's thyroid hormone level is normal which is good. We will also send away the blood sample for an external lab to double check the neutrophil count as on occasion our in-house machine has been unreliable."

He had a similar episode almost a year later, and we went straight to the antibiotics again that time. Also Paddypaws shared a link with me at the time for milk thistle which I managed to get in his food, but not tolerated regularly enough! 

I think you're being very thorough with Toppy, I have no idea what caused this with Milo either. Sending love to you all and hope you get to the bottom of it x


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

My former GP, a lovely man, said to me years ago, "The longer I practice medicine the more it mystifies me." Fortunately he was a firm believer in listening carefully to what the patient had to say.
Maybe the mysteries of medicine applies to vets too.
Hoping the AB's work asap.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I do wish sometimes they would try things sooner. When he had the first scan (the one this week was his third ) my vet then said there was signs of mild inflammation. Well, why not then try antibiotics or whatever to see if it helps but we go on and on testing and testing this and that and getting no further forward really until this week and, even now, its still only guesswork on the part of the specialist vet. It seems to me its more about discounting things than finding the actual cause.

@Ali71, at least Milo had some symptoms and the diagnosis sounds very similar to Toppy's, Toppy has absolutely no symptoms other than the loss of weight. He's as bright as a button most of the time, eating as usual and Toppy lives to eat as I've said before, no issues with toileting and they've done a urine test which was OK, no sickness or nausea, no lethargy. If he hadn't had the pre-op blood test last October, we'd be none the wiser now. My vet said she has seen very sick cats with much lower levels of ALT than Toppy. It makes absolutely no sense does it.

@huckybuck, he doesn't chew plants at all. The only other thing in the garden at the moment which are suspect are toadstools which aren't there all year round.

I'm certainly not discounting stress though, quite honestly, I think the cause would more likely be the cats next door as when he goes outside (and I think this is why he goes outside more) he will just sit looking up at the top of the fence for ages and ages waiting for one of them to appear, its quite an obsession. Hopefully it won't be for much longer as my neighbour already has plans in hand to catproof her garden as well because her two keep getting attacked by a tabby cat who likes to visit, and she is fed up having to take them to the vets. If she manages that, they shouldn't be appearing at all.

I'm collecting the antibiotics later today then the steroid tablets will be in hopefully by the end of the week.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Toppy started the antibiotics last night and I'll be collecting the other medication tomorrow.

Must be lovely to have someone else do all the worrying about your health and be totally oblivious.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Sending truck loads of positive vibes those AB work dearest Toppy. X


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Good boy Toppy. Let’s hope the ABs work speedily and you are gaining weight again soon xxx


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Ooo, he's a good boy. xx Hope he's better soon. x


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## Willsee (Nov 7, 2020)

Just been catching up on Toppy, really pleased you insisted on Antibiotics before a biopsy, the Willsee household has all its fingers and paws crossed the do the trick xxxxxx


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

All the best wishes for gorgeous Toppy!


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Bless him, all curled up and overflowing with his little shaved side. Looks a nice cosy bed. Everything crossed for the ABs to do the trick xx


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

How is Toppy today, @Charity? Is he ok on the AB's


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Ali71 said:


> How is Toppy today, @Charity? Is he ok on the AB's


Thank you for asking @Ali71, he's fine other than this last couple of days he started with his summer itch, he gets this every year and scratches round his neck and back and causes scabby areas. Could do without that at the moment. At 4.30 this morning he and Bunty were having fun and games in the living room rushing about, knocking things over and waking me up. :Banghead He's been out in the garden part of the day and snoozing happily the rest.

Got the other tablets, there are no instructions how to give them to animals as its a human medicine.  Thank goodness they can go in food which is a great relief as they are huge. He has to have half a tablet a day and even that is big so he wouldn't thank me for trying to get those down his throat.. He had the first one at lunchtime, when he'd finished his dinner I rushed to see if he'd eaten the food and left the pill in his bowl but thankfully it was empty.....phew. He seems to be tolerating the antibiotics OK which is good.










He's now patiently waiting for me to stop talking to you all and go and get his tea.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Good grief those tablets are huge! I would struggle with those myself, as for my cats never in a million years! 

Good boy Toppy Trotter, you are such a good boy. Xx


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Whoppers. Good job he will take pills in his food. They'd be a devil to get down him otherwise. Moo complains about half a Milbemax.
Nice to hear he's running about, even if his (and Buntys) timing was out.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Oh Toppy, they really are snake eyes you are making at Mummy!! I can hear him thinking "you better not be plotting on hiding one of those extra large sweeties in my dinner! Sorry to hear about the itching, I had some Piriton tablets for Suki once when he was itching and they really helped. Not what you need though, no! No more meds :Arghh

Hope he continues to improve, I'd say early morning shenanigans is a sign he's feeling ok xx


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Oh bless him! Toppy you are the sweetest boy. It must be so frustrating @Charity but you're doing everything and more I hope the meds help him x


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

How's Toppy since he's been on ABs and his other meds? Really hope they're working so he doesn't need any more poking and prodding.
Chin scratches all round x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Cully said:


> How's Toppy since he's been on ABs and his other meds? Really hope they're working so he doesn't need any more poking and prodding.
> Chin scratches all round x


He's doing OK thanks @Cully though only the next blood test will tell. Thankfully he's having no side effects to the medication which is a bonus. I thought he had put on a bit of weight but I could be dreaming as the vets scales and mine don't talk the same language. If things haven't improved next time I think I will weep.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

Charity said:


> He's doing OK thanks @Cully though only the next blood test will tell. Thankfully he's having no side effects to the medication which is a bonus. I thought he had put on a bit of weight but I could be dreaming as the vets scales and mine don't talk the same language. If things haven't improved next time I think I will weep.


I really hope the meds are working fingers crossed for a bit more weight.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> He's doing OK thanks @Cully though only the next blood test will tell. Thankfully he's having no side effects to the medication which is a bonus. I thought he had put on a bit of weight but I could be dreaming as the vets scales and mine don't talk the same language. If things haven't improved next time I think I will weep.


I find the same problem with scales. I just weigh her on my scales on the same day as the vet does on his and note down the difference. She's usually slightly heavier on mine. It's easier that way to keep a check.
Fingers, toes and eyes crossed for an improvement.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I knew if I said Toppy was fine I'd be tempting fate. Yesterday as the day went on, he got a bit quieter than usual and less playful. Today, he has been totally flat. Other than going outside for about twenty minutes, as its been raining hard most of the day, and eating his meals, he has just slept on our bed literally all day which is definitely unlike him. He always likes to be around one of us and is very playful but he is totally lethargic today. If I've called him to come into the living room he hasn't moved. He purrs if I go in and stroke him but doesn't make any effort to get up or really interact. 

I'm wondering if its the medication, I'm going to phone the vet tomorrow though she might refer me to the specialist vet as he prescribed the medication.


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Charity said:


> I knew if I said Toppy was fine I'd be tempting fate. Yesterday as the day went on, he got a bit quieter than usual and less playful. Today, he has been totally flat. Other than going outside for about twenty minutes, as its been raining hard most of the day, and eating his meals, he has just slept on our bed literally all day which is definitely unlike him. He always likes to be around one of us and is very playful but he is totally lethargic today. If I've called him to come into the living room he hasn't moved. He purrs if I go in and stroke him but doesn't make any effort to get up or really interact.
> 
> I'm wondering if its the medication, I'm going to phone the vet tomorrow though she might refer me to the specialist vet as he prescribed the medication.


That's a shame @Charity. I wonder if the antibiotics are Covenia? Max was given Covenia, an antibiotic lasting 14 days (and also a Loxicom painkiller injection) Wednesday morning and he has been the same. He only decided to get up and go out around an hour or two ago.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh Toppy  Poor little boy. I hope you feel brighter tomorrow.

@Charity what meds did Toppy get started on? Have the vet team said it's definitely LC? The reason I ask is because I think it's really interesting how the management of LC is different with Toppy's vet and Oscar's vet. Tell me to go away and stop being nosy, I have no problem with that, I am just wondering if there's anything we have done that might be useful.

Kisses to Toppy xx


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Come on Toppy-Trotters, we need you up and about and enjoying life. Don't suppose the weather is helping much @Charity. I hope he picks up.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

TriTri said:


> That's a shame @Charity. I wonder if the antibiotics are Covenia? Max was given Covenia, an antibiotic lasting 14 days (and also a Loxicom painkiller injection) Wednesday morning and he has been the same. He only decided to get up and go out around an hour or two ago.


Toppy's antibiotic is called Kesium which is amoxicillin. I'm not sure its those as he's been taking them for 10 days now, the other is Destolit which is a steroid I think and he's been on those nearly a week but the only side effect they mention is vomiting and he hasn't been doing that though I suppose he could feel sick.

@Mrs Funkin,, of course you're not being nosy. They are treating him for LC but they can't categorically say that is what he has got. I think because I declined the biopsy and in the absence of anything else concrete, the specialist vet is going on his gut feeling. I can't believe frankly he's got any of these suggested things when, up to now, he has been so well in himself. The not knowing or finding out for certain drives me mad.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh darling Toppy I hope you're your bright happy self again tomorrow


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He's got up at his usual time for supper and is tucking in, so that's good.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

How is Toppy this morning?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He seems much brighter this morning, still not quite 100%, but so much better than yesterday. He's had his breakfast, of course, been outside and he's been playing with some of his toys and is now having his morning wash. Hopefully, yesterday was just a very off day.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

It maybe the meds made him drowsy. Yesterday Misty, Sooty, Bertie and Buster were all very lethargic and virtually slept the day away, so it may well have been the weather. Down here it was after overnight rain and heavy atmosphere, so might explain Toppy if your weather was similar. Was Bunty her usual self?
Yes, I hate jinxing things by being too positive. It usually comes back to bite me.
Glad to here he's more upbeat today.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

So glad Toppy is brighter today, long my it last xxxxx


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Glad he's brighter. I had a good look for side effects of those ABs but couldn't find lethargy - though most likely if he was suffering from any of the others he would probably have felt lethargic or sleepy anyway.

If he's playing, munching and having washiwoos (as we call it here at Pumpkin Towers) what more can we ask xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Thank you, yes, its a relief he's back to nearly normal. I do so wish they could talk.  

His fur is growing back on his tummy and he's just starting to look stripey again.


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Awww Toppy! I hope he's ok bless him!


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Just catching up, good to hear Toppy has had a brighter and more active day xx


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Glad you’re feeling perkier, Toppy. Excellent you’ve still got your appetite despite feeling a bit under the weather. 

It’s so difficult isn’t it? Oscar’s LC was diagnosed from the fine needle biopsy and USS but he’d been anorexic and lost heaps of weight in 16 days, so it was more about figuring out what was going on behind the clinical presentation. As far as I was able to research, anorexia is one of the major issues for LC. Toppy thankfully isn’t anorexic. I guess liver inflammation can make you feel pretty yucky. 

I do hope you have another back to normal day tomorrow, Toppy. Don’t worry your mum please.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Glad you're feeling perkier, Toppy. Excellent you've still got your appetite despite feeling a bit under the weather.
> 
> It's so difficult isn't it? Oscar's LC was diagnosed from the fine needle biopsy and USS but he'd been anorexic and lost heaps of weight in 16 days, so it was more about figuring out what was going on behind the clinical presentation. As far as I was able to research, anorexia is one of the major issues for LC. Toppy thankfully isn't anorexic. I guess liver inflammation can make you feel pretty yucky.
> 
> I do hope you have another back to normal day tomorrow, Toppy. Don't worry your mum please.


I just wish I knew if what I'm doing is correct. I know he's having the medication now, bearing in mind this has been going on for eight months, but I feel as if I'm working blind. I've had no guidance from my vets about feeding support so I'm doing my own thing, I read that for most liver diseases cats need high protein so I've dropped a lot of his foods and am sticking with three, Canagan, Thrive and found a new one called Untamed which all have 14-16% protein. Having said that, some liver disease requires low protein, well, if we can't be certain what he's got, how do I know? I didn't want him to be totally eating a dry prescription diet. So, I add so many grams of Hills L/D to each meal and his liver supplement.

The most frustrating problem is Toppy isn't showing clsssic symptoms for anything which is what makes it so difficult to diagnose. :Banghead


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

You will hopefully, get some answers from the next tests, after the steroids and Antibiotics. 


It must be frustrating being in the dark, but no one could care for Toppy better than you x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lots of love and purrs for Mr Toppy. Hope he's feeling brighter today. All that rain on Friday was enough to make anyone feel miserable


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Yep, I get that. I think they don’t know, to be honest. I’d rather no guidance than incorrect guidance though. For us, we don’t have the choice of high or low protein, it’s just “what will he eat today”. 

When Oscar’s LC was diagnosed (and I’m thankful Annette was open to conversation because the other vets were saying about it being CKD but she felt the bloods at that point were a red herring and she was right), it was me that suggested the Urso. I’d read about it and because we use it with our pregnant ladies with a particular condition of pregnancy, I wasn’t afraid of it and Annette was interested in it. He will be on it for the rest of his life though, as he’s much better with it. When we tried him without it, the anorexia started to return and I watched the amounts he was eating drop again. Then of course the focal HCM was added into the mix...

I think when they are a non-typical presentation it’s so difficult. If they really do think it’s LC, it could be worth talking to them about Urso (ursodial to give it its proper name)? I’d love to try the milk thistle with Oscar but we can’t as we can’t put anything in his food. 

I hope you have a good day, Toppy.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yep, I get that. I think they don't know, to be honest. I'd rather no guidance than incorrect guidance though. For us, we don't have the choice of high or low protein, it's just "what will he eat today".
> 
> When Oscar's LC was diagnosed (and I'm thankful Annette was open to conversation because the other vets were saying about it being CKD but she felt the bloods at that point were a red herring and she was right), it was me that suggested the Urso. I'd read about it and because we use it with our pregnant ladies with a particular condition of pregnancy, I wasn't afraid of it and Annette was interested in it. He will be on it for the rest of his life though, as he's much better with it. When we tried him without it, the anorexia started to return and I watched the amounts he was eating drop again. Then of course the focal HCM was added into the mix...
> 
> ...


There are milk thistle tablets but depends how well Oscar takes tablets. Toppy wasn't keen, I was giving him Denamarin but its a pain having to wait an hour after giving them before he can be fed so now we're trying Hepatosyl Plus which is a small capsule, you can either give orally or put on food.

The main ingredient of the Destolit tablets Toppy is taking is Ursodeoxycholic acid which I think, looking it up, is your Urso in another form. Hopefully that is doing the trick.

I'm very lucky that Toppy is happy to eat anything however he's feeling so we don't have the problem of not eating enough.

He's doing OK today, been out in the rain and sitting on my lap. He's now having a wash before having a kip.


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Poor Toppy, I hope you have some answers soon and he starts to feel better. x


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Bless Toppy and you! Sending love to you both and a gentle boop from Popcorn x


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

How's Toppy doing?? @Charity


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

popcornsmum said:


> How's Toppy doing?? @Charity


He's OK at the moment thanks @popcornsmum. Most of the time you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him. He's been out in the rain this morning and keeps waiting by his food bowl for seconds which he isn't getting. Roll on beginning of July when we can get him tested again.

Honestly, they have beds galore yet they choose to both sit in the smallest one in the house at the moment. To be more accurate, Bunty pushes in as she has to sit where her beloved Toppy sits.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

I love seeing Mr&Mrs T squished in together:Kiss 
Hugs n kisses to the happy couple


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Wonderful photo, glad he's so bright xx


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I really do love the way she mothers him, it's so sweet.


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

Lovely photo of Bunty and Toppy. I hope Toppy feels better soon. Big hugs to you all. 
Viv xx


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Charity said:


> He's OK at the moment thanks @popcornsmum. Most of the time you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him. He's been out in the rain this morning and keeps waiting by his food bowl for seconds which he isn't getting. Roll on beginning of July when we can get him tested again.
> 
> Honestly, they have beds galore yet they choose to both sit in the smallest one in the house at the moment. To be more accurate, Bunty pushes in as she has to sit where her beloved Toppy sits.
> 
> View attachment 470977


Oh look at them!!!!!! I love them both! Bless their hearts! Am glad Toppy is okay! X


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I have been keeping up with all that is going on and thought I had better drop in to top up the positive healing vibes for Toppy x


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

I love that photo!


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Toppy and Bunty are like Jelly and ice cream or cheese and pickle, perfect together x


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## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

Charity said:


> He's OK at the moment thanks @popcornsmum. Most of the time you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him. He's been out in the rain this morning and keeps waiting by his food bowl for seconds which he isn't getting. Roll on beginning of July when we can get him tested again.
> 
> Honestly, they have beds galore yet they choose to both sit in the smallest one in the house at the moment. To be more accurate, Bunty pushes in as she has to sit where her beloved Toppy sits.
> 
> View attachment 470977


I just love their relationship :Cat:Cat


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Charity said:


> He's OK at the moment thanks @popcornsmum. Most of the time you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him. He's been out in the rain this morning and keeps waiting by his food bowl for seconds which he isn't getting. Roll on beginning of July when we can get him tested again.
> 
> Honestly, they have beds galore yet they choose to both sit in the smallest one in the house at the moment. To be more accurate, Bunty pushes in as she has to sit where her beloved Toppy sits.
> 
> View attachment 470977


awww, lovely pic of them


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Enjoying the last of the sun's rays


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

SbanR said:


> Enjoying the last of the sun's rays
> View attachment 471001


Two very relaxed sofa buddies xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Charity said:


> Two very relaxed sofa buddies xx


Sadly they're not buddies like Mr & Mrs T. I wish they were.

Oops! Posted on the wrong thread


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Sadly they're not buddies like Mr & Mrs T. I wish they were.
> 
> Oops! Posted on the wrong thread


It's called a senior moment.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

So very glad to hear Toppy is doing ok. Has he finished the ABs now? 

Whenever a cat needs to gain a bit of weight I tend to feed what they really like rather than what’s necessarily the best for them. Sometimes I think you have to weigh up what’s most imp right now. Gaining the weight back or liver support. 

When does he next go for bloods?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> So very glad to hear Toppy is doing ok. Has he finished the ABs now?
> 
> Whenever a cat needs to gain a bit of weight I tend to feed what they really like rather than what's necessarily the best for them. Sometimes I think you have to weigh up what's most imp right now. Gaining the weight back or liver support.
> 
> When does he next go for bloods?


I've made an appointment today to take him back for his blood test on 1 July so not long to wait. He's still on the ABs and Destolit until then.

Toppy's eating habits haven't changed throughout and he's happy to eat anything you put in front of him. He is having his usual food plus a little of the Hills L/D dry.  When I weigh him he's put on a bit of weight but, as I said earlier, the vets always weigh him less than me.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

As long as he’s weighing more on your scales - that would be my gauge. They can vary a huge amount depending on time of day and whether they have had a no 1 or 2 beforehand!!! I reckon it’s as much as 400mg!


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh I’m so glad Toppy is doing well (and that photo! So gorgeous). Thanks for the meds info, I will ask Annette about milk thistle tablets, Oscar has his five tablets each morning quite well - funny it used to be the Urso I worried about as it’s the biggest but now I think it’s the easiest as it’s smooth. 

Keep up the eating Toppy, tell your mum that a second breakfast is onky fair when you’re feeling a bit poorly


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh Oscar, how brave to take five tablets a day! 

Thankfully, Toppy's all goes in his food now which is much better for him and me.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Toppy's off to the specialists this morning for his blood test. Our appointment isn't until 11.00 o'clock and, of course, he can't have breakfast so while he rushed off outside just now having seen one of the cats next door chasing a squirrel on the top of their fence, I sneakily gave Bunty hers and she ate it all (there's a miracle in itself) and I've whisked the dish away again. I'm sure he can smell food now he's back in though,, poor boy. 

Lots of good vibes please in the hope things will have improved.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

All paws, fingers and toes crossed here for you Toppy. Sending positive thoughts and love. 

(and good girl Bunty for eating all your breakfast too!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lots of positive wishes for Toppy today xxx


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Toppy is very special to us all, sending all positive vibes and love your way x


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Good luck gorgeous Toppy, and hope it all goes well 
Love to you all xx


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## Jojomomo (Apr 16, 2017)

Good luck Toppy, hope all goes well and that the time until you can eat goes quickly! Xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Lots of love and good vibes winging their way to you darling Toppy:Kiss


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Good luck gorgeous boy. I'm sure Mummy will get you a nice lunch as compensation xx


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Lots of super strength PF vibes on their way ,paws crossed the blood test shows an improvement x


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> Toppy's off to the specialists this morning for his blood test.
> View attachment 471456


Looks like he's saying to Bunty, "Is that breakfast I can smell?" and she's no letting on. Good girl.
Loads of good vibes on the way so you get the best news.








Good luck Toppy xx


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Good luck today Toppy x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

We're back, took longer to get there than actually being there. The vet will ring tomorrow with results. One positive is that he was 5.5 kg last time and he's now 6 kg, that's the first time his weight has gone up in several months.  He did howl a little to begin with on the journey but then he usually realises it doesn't make any difference so he gives up. He's now had his lunch and gone to bed to recover. I don't think he's talking to me though. 

Good job I wasn't driving on my own as on the way there the oil light came on and if I see any lights I start panicking, then on the way home there was a ding and the petrol light came on. :Jawdrop I don't usually let it get down that low and I'd forgotten to fill it up the other day. All in all, I was glad to get home.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Well you must be glad that's over with all that pinging and lights flashing. Not what you need with a precious cargo in the back.
Good news he's gained some weight so that's a pointer in the right direction.
Now keep busy so you don't dwell too much on the results tomorrow. You wont change them by worrying.
I bet he's glad to have had something to eat at last and no doubt Bunty will give him the once over too.
I'm really chuffed about the weight gain. Well done Toppers.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

It's so good to hear he's put on weight:Joyful perhaps a sign that whatever the problem was has resolved by itself.
What an adventuresome journey you've had Charity


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

That's great news on the weight gain! Well done Toppy, keep it up  
Suki, Milo, OH and I send our love and best wishes, and fingers crossed for positive news tomorrow xx


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

Good news about the weight gain. Paws crossed for Toppy x


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

That sounds promising. More fingers and paws crossed here for good news tomorrow


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

The vet phoned last night, sort of good news. The ALT level has reduced again from 338 to 278 but he's not satisfied with that as it needs to be around 50 to be normal. I must admit I was rather disappointed myself as there was such a big reduction last time from over 2,000 to 338 that I was hoping for better things this time. Still, at least its going in the right direction.

So, its more antibiotics and continue with the Destolit tablets for a few more weeks then have another test. I asked him to send me copies of the results and the letter to my vets so I'll be able to see things more clearly.

I think I'm going to put him back on the Denmarin liver support tablets as the big reduction last time occurred *before* he was given any vet medication so we must have been doing something right. I changed to Hepatosyl Plus because it was easier to put it in his food than physically give him a tablet every day and then have to wait an hour for him to be able to have his breakfast but having read up about them both, Denmarin seems to absorb better. Sorry Toppy 

He's fast asleep and snoring at the moment so not bovvered


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

You’ve done well to get that down from 2,000 to 278. I would be sticking to the Denmarin too. Like you said, it’s going in the right direction and is going to take a little time to correct… good job you took action and got him in with a specialist. PURRfect cat slave . Of course PURRfect cat too, so well done Toppy for all your efforts as well :Cat .
P.S. ‘can’t believe you’ve not treated us to a photo of his lordship here . Where’s our Toppy fix?


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Really pleased he’s put weight on that’s good!!

And glad his levels are coming down albeit slowly - it’s in the right direction!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

OK, here he is


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> OK, here he is
> 
> View attachment 471508


Yep, not bovvered at all.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Darling Toppy. Looking so manly:Kiss


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Charity said:


> OK, here he is
> 
> View attachment 471508


Thank you! Toppy's lovely face fascinates me .


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Some vibes needed please. Toppy's off to our vets at 9.00 a.m. tomorrow for a blood test to see ifthings are still improving. I can't wait another month until we go to the specialist vets. I weighed him yesterday and he was still 6kg .

We've also got to take Purdey as she's hurt her dew claw today and when I accidentally touched it earlier she screamed and she keeps holding her paw up.. I rang the vet but we couldn't get an appointment late this afternoon. They told me to give her half a paracetamol tablet for the pain. Never rains but it pours. 

Can I just add that dogs can tolerate paracetamol as advised by a vet but never give it to a cat as it can be fatal.


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

Paws crossed for Toppy, hope he continues to improved.
I shall send special healing vibes to Purdey. X x


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Extra strength vibes going to your furry babes.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Lots of positive vibes on their way for Toppys blood test ,paws crossed all is still headed in the right direction .
Healing vibes for Purdy too poor girl , dew claws are so easily damaged


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Hope everything goes well this morning @Charity x


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Good luck Toppers, you'll sail through it.
Poor Purdey, I expect it feels very sore. Be a brave girl now.
Sending positive and healing vibes for you both to share.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Good luck Toppy Trotter, clever boy for retaining your weight, that’s all down to your mum, now let’s have really really low levels today please xxxx


Thinking of you xx


Purdey darling, I bet that stings, have you been trying to climb trees, or running and skidding. Dew claws are a pain in the so and so, been there many times with my lot. Never understood why they are called dew claws though.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Paws well and truly crossed for Toppy's bloods and for Purdey's poor dew claw. I think it must be so sore for her 

Sending love and positive thoughts (and hope it's not to stressful for you @Charity xx).


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Here he is @TriTri waiting to go in a minute. He's seen me get the carrier out but no panic. Only thing is no breakfast of course.  Watch this space.

Not taking Purdey as she seems a bit better this morning, hopefully the rest overnight and the paracetamol has done it good, so will give her the 2nd paracetomol dose and hope that does it.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

We're back and all well though you can see he looked a bit scared when we arrived. He was his usual co-operative self bless him. 

The vet weighed him, a month ago he was 6 kg, now he's 6.5 kg. Very good from the point of view of whatever is wrong with him but getting a bit porky again so hope that won't affect the blood test results. Will get those tomorrow.

First thing of course when he got home...breakfast! He's now happily having a wash in his bed.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Paws crossed for good results , I know you don't want Toppy to have a weight problem but right now its a good sign that he is not only maintaining his weight he is putting some on too .
Enjoy your breakfast Toppy you have earned it .


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Good boy Toppy:Kiss
Extra yummy breakfast I hope, to make up for the horrid start to the day.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

It's so interesting to me, young Toppy. LC typically presents with one of the major symptom being anorexia and I think you are still happily scoffing - I can only hope that the Ursodial that you are having has worked it's magic as it apparently does in most cases of LC after a course of two or three months  Fingers and paws crossed for good blood results xx


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Well done Toppy, I expect you'll be thoroughly examined by Bunty soon if not already. Hope you enjoyed your very late breakfast.
Poor Purdey, I hope your claw isn't feeling quite so sore today.
Don't worry Bunty, you wont get left out just because the others are getting extra attention. I bet your mum will find you a treat or two.
Fingers crossed @Charity for really good test results, then you can relax.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Thank you all. I think the Denmarin liver support has been the thing which has helped most as his results were improving before he had any vet medication. He's finished his antibiotics now and is just on the Destolit for another month which the specialist vet prescribed. I've also stopped the Hills prescription food and am continuing to feed him high protein wet food.

@Mrs Funkin, I'm not convinced he's got LC, I believe in the absence of anything concrete, the vet just decided to treat him for that. After all, with no other symptoms other than slow weight loss and the ALT levels being high, it's not much to go on.


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Such a brave boy ❤, well done Toppy. I'm pleased Purdy is feeling better. Thank you for the update and lovely photo-fix @Charity. I hope you (and us) get good news soon.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

The vet phoned yesterday afternoon. Not bad news thankfully but not good either as it appears nothing seems to have changed since the blood test at the beginning of last month, levels are much the same. :Banghead I have to say this is a blow and a mystery. I'm waiting for a copy of the results so I can see exactly what's what. I don't understand how things can have been going so well with levels decreasing drastically one minute then, when he's actually receiving treatment, nothing. Obviously, increasing the medication hasn't done any good. The vet is going to pass the results on to the specialist so I may hear from him in a few days. 

Both my vet and the one I saw Friday are on holiday for the next two weeks so I may as well wait another month and see what happens when we go to the specialists again for the next blood test I suppose. :Meh

To make matters worse, now that Toppy has reached his 9th birthday, when his insurance policy renews in a few weeks, I have to pay 20% of the cost of each vet bill on top of the excess so I was hoping, the way things were going, we could have him better by then so we didn't have to have so much expensive treatment. Oh well.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

That's a bit of a blow that there hasn't been any improvement in Toppys bloods but I suppose its at least no worse either.Hopefully the specialist vet will be in touch soon to give you some sort of info on the results .
As for the insurance Meeko is in the same position now although his 20% only kicked in this year after his 11th Birthday but at least they are insured which with the sort of bills our boys are racking up its better than it might be .
Paws crossed you get some clarity soon.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Sorry it's not _all_ good news and you're going to have to wait a bit longer. I know you didn't want him to have more bloods.
That's a nuisance having to pay more for his insurance now plus the extra 20%. Stings doesn't it?
Fingers crossed you hear from the vet this week and find out why the meds don't make any difference.
Is it worth sending an email asking for answers/explanations to specific questions? That would give him time to properly consider/research his answers and be fully armed with the info you need.

.....something's just crashed on the bathroom floor. She's miffed with the rain and got a fit of the zoomies.


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Aw just catching up with everything. Bless Toppy. I really hope you get some kind of answers soon. Xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Cully said:


> Sorry it's not _all_ good news and you're going to have to wait a bit longer. I know you didn't want him to have more bloods.
> That's a nuisance having to pay more for his insurance now plus the extra 20%. Stings doesn't it?
> Fingers crossed you hear from the vet this week and find out why the meds don't make any difference.
> Is it worth sending an email asking for answers/explanations to specific questions? That would give him time to properly consider/research his answers and be fully armed with the info you need.
> ...


He wasn't supposed to have another test for a month when we see the specialist but I specifically asked my vets if they would do one half way so I could see how things were going, two months is a long time to wait. The specialist won't be expecting this. I thought things would be better so at least I'd know we were on the right track to put my mind at rest, now it seems the medication hasn't made any difference. The only other option from the vet's point of view is the more invasive biopsy but I really don't want to go down that route while he appears well.

If they haven't found out in nine months what the problem is, I can't see they will now, they've done every test there is.

Hope nothing's been damaged in the bathroom @Cully.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh @Charity I am sorry that you're no closer to finding out what's going on. I hope that the specialist can guide you and figure it out.

I've never known anything except £115 excess + 20% of each condition - I'm just glad we did insure him


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh @Charity I am sorry that you're no closer to finding out what's going on. I hope that the specialist can guide you and figure it out.
> 
> I've never known anything except £115 excess + 20% of each condition - I'm just glad we did insure him


At least my excess is only £69 @Mrs Funkin and, you're right, it would be a lot worse if they weren't insured. I think we've spent about £4,000 in the nine months he's been having all these tests etc.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

@Charity , I'm with you on not going for the biopsy. As you say, it's a lot to put him through when he seems perfectly fine. They've explored everything and found nothing. It feels to me they are determined to find an explanation regardless of how it's affecting Toppy. And you!
I'm sure they have the best of intentions but sometimes you just have to leave well alone and see how things go.
Years ago my (then) GP said the longer he practised medicine, the less he understood it. Meaning, there's so much we are able to discover now, but sometimes you have to accept the mysteries or you drive yourself insane looking for things that aren't there.
Toppy is happy and appears healthy. You know them both better than any vet and would notice if anything was not right.

As for Misty. The only thing hurt was her pride as she'd leapt from the towel rack onto the top of the shower unit, missed, and knocked the showerhead onto the floor. Hence the crash! After a few Dreamies she climbed back in her drawer and went to sleep.
This 'new' drawer thing with her really makes me laugh as I had a friend who had a tall metal filing cabinet and 3 cats. If his family wanted to know where a particular cat was he'd ask which one, then slide open the appropriate drawer. They each had their own and slept amongst his files and other bits. They'd look up through half closed eyes as he opened their drawer and searched for an invoice etc:Happy.
Well the sun's out here. Hope it is where you are too xx.


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Sorry this must be so frustrating for you. 

Fingers crossed the specialist can come up with something and if he’s not seen this scenario before, he has done some more research….? 

Well done Toppy, your such a good boy and well done Bunty for all those healing vibes you must be giving Toppy.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Cully said:


> @Charity , I'm with you on not going for the biopsy. As you say, it's a lot to put him through when he seems perfectly fine. They've explored everything and found nothing. It feels to me they are determined to find an explanation regardless of how it's affecting Toppy. And you!
> I'm sure they have the best of intentions but sometimes you just have to leave well alone and see how things go.
> Years ago my (then) GP said the longer he practised medicine, the less he understood it. Meaning, there's so much we are able to discover now, but sometimes you have to accept the mysteries or you drive yourself insane looking for things that aren't there.
> Toppy is happy and appears healthy. You know them both better than any vet and would notice if anything was not right.
> ...


That's about how I feel @Cully, that we've gone through enough so let things lie for now. If something happens and he becomes ill later on then I'll just have to bear the burden of it being my decision not to proceed.

I went to the vets this morning and got a copy of the blood test results. It wasn't made clear to me when the vet rang the other day that the ALT levels are actually *higher* than last time so the medication hasn't done him any good at all. I'm quite concerned that the specialist's blood testing last time only rated two things as higher than normal, whereas my vets testing are now showing six things as high. I don't understand it all but other things, which were OK anyway, have come down while others have gone up. One thing, CK which I guess is his kidney function, has gone up to now be high whereas before it was normal which is disturbing if its due to the tablets. His ALK Phos levels have different normal values with the specialist vet and the lab my vets have been using so last time they were normal, the specialist range being 0-50, while my vet's lab's normal range is 0-25 so they are classing his result as high. It's a total nightmare to understand.

Honestly, the more I read the more confused I get.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> Honestly, the more I read the more confused I get.


I guess that's why we leave it those who understand. But it doesn't help when the levels differ so much and the ranges vary too.
As you say, you've gone through enough already and tbh, I sometimes think all that poking and prodding etc and the stress it causes can exacerbate things. I firmly believe that providing they are well and happy then we shouldn't look for trouble without good reason. But, that's just me.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Errrrrr, if being on those tablets hasn't helped and in fact appear to have worsened Toppy's results, would it be an option to stop them?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

SbanR said:


> Errrrrr, if being on those tablets hasn't helped and in fact appear to have worsened Toppy's results, would it be an option to stop them?


@SbanR, I'm thinking the same though I don't suppose that will put me in good books with the specialist vet who will no doubt say I haven't given them time. 

I've been studying the results this afternoon and comparing them to last time's and I am worried that other levels which were OK before are now going up or considered high. The only good result I can see is Lymphocytes which are now within the normal range. I am worried about kidney levels though but I'll have to wait to ask my vet when she's back from holiday. I don't want them telling me this is just progression of the disease, whatever it is, when the medication hasn't helped one bit.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

It's so worrying. Poor Toppy n poor you.


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Just a thought, but is it possible the condition could have “been worse” without the meds, making it look like they don’t work? You never know….


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Well I don’t think the medication is right for what ever Toppy has, IF Toppy has anything, a poorly cat doesn’t put on weight! 





We spent thousands on our terrier years ago, apparently her liver levels were through the roof, the specialist couldn’t work it out, in the end we left well alone, she is now 16yrs and ok as an old dog can be.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

ewelsh said:


> *Well I don't think the medication is right for what ever Toppy has, IF Toppy has anything, a poorly cat doesn't put on weight!*
> 
> We spent thousands on our terrier years ago, apparently her liver levels were through the roof, the specialist couldn't work it out, in the end we left well alone, she is now 16yrs and ok as an old dog can be.


I was thinking the same but a bit hesitant to say so infact it would concern me that the meds might be having an adverse effect on him , that said it is only my thoughts and not based on anything concrete.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Whilst I accept that his weight improvement has come about since


buffie said:


> I was thinking the same but a bit hesitant to say so infact it would concern me that the meds might be having an adverse effect on him , that said it is only my thoughts and not based on anything concrete.


Don't worry @buffie, I agree and I think this is the problem of not actually knowing what is wrong with him and guessing and, therefore, not necessarily giving him the right treatment. I've not been easy about giving him this medication for a long period, especially since he got the higher dose as that seems to be when things started to go wrong.

I'm going to speak to the specialist sometime this week, give him time to get the results, and say I would like to stop the medication until we see him again in a few weeks. The confusion is, because he's been on two drugs, is it the antibiotics which haven't been working, or the other one, or both? Now we've finished the antibiotics, do I carry on with the other tablet or do I stop those as well? The second tablet was to make sure his bile duct was working OK but, from how I saw it, none of his bile results showed anything abnormal. Don't you wish this was a subject you were very knowledgeable about so you could be sure of your arguments?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

@Charity I sympathise with you , it is just horrible when you don't know what to do for the best especially when you are concerned that the current treatment may not be helping.
I hope you manage to get the answers you need to feel a bit happier about where you go with Toppy's treatment x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I've just been in touch with the specialists vets. Would you believe the vet there is on holiday this week as well. :Banghead

I'm going to stop the tablets from today.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> I've just been in touch with the specialists vets. Would you believe the vet there is on holiday this week as well. :Banghead
> 
> I'm going to stop the tablets from today.


Don't blame you. I'd do the same.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Charity said:


> I've just been in touch with the specialists vets. Would you believe the vet there is on holiday this week as well. :Banghead
> 
> I'm going to stop the tablets from today.


I think I would too


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Cully said:


> Don't blame you. I'd do the same.
> View attachment 473713


That's definitely me at the moment


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Don't mention needles to Toppy today. Both he and Bunty are off to the vets for their annual jabs and check up. Toppy is also having another blood test. He should have gone to the specialist vets a couple of weeks ago but I had to cancel, only to find that vet was then on holiday for a month, so I arranged for my own vet to do it today which is much better actually, less stress travelling etc. He hasn't had any medication since the last test, I've only been giving him the liver supplement. I'm not raising my hopes this time as I came down to earth with a bump last time being pretty sure things would have got better with the medication and they hadn't. :Sour

Unfortunately, Toppy's appointment isn't until 11.00 so a long wait for his breakfast, rather brunch or lunch by the time he gets home. There's a lot of protest meowing going on at the moment. and hard staring at me. :Hungry

Bunty's appointment is this afternoon which may be worse as she kicks up merry hell all the way there normally. 

Double vibes plus a few more today please


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Vibes on their way to my Toppy Trotter and darling Bunty, a few for your nerves too ((())))

Fingers toes and eyes crossed Toppy’s results have improved vastly without all those drugs xxxxxx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Bucket loads of PF vibes heading to the Charity household. Hope blood results come back A-okay


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Poor Toppy, don't be hangry! Mum's doing this for your own good 
@Charity thinking of you today, I find vet days pretty stressful as well. I can recommend a good on line browse!
Hope all goes well x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lots of special vibes for today. Hope for good news on Toppy's blood tests xxx


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Oh bless them! Poor Toppy! Sending all the positive vibes! I hope all is okay and he gets his brekky as soon as he can! Xx


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## Emmasian (Aug 22, 2015)

Good luck Toppy and Bunty (and Mummy). Xxx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He's realised he's not getting his breakfast so he'll have a game instead. Wish I felt as calm as he is. :Nailbiting


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Funny Toppy, look at Bunty in the background :Hilarious


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Ooh, lots n lots of vibes on there way.
Love how Toppy decided food wasn't forthcoming so a daft game would do instead. And Bunty in the background thinking, "Uh Oh, I've got a bad feeling".
Hope everything goes well and the journey is stress free.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Lots of positive vibes on their way to Toppy and Bunty ,Paws crossed that Toppys blood results have improved


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

Lots of PF vibes for Toppy and Bunty. I hope Toppy’y blood test comes back good. 
Viv xx


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

Paws crossed for Toppy x x


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## LittleEms (Jun 16, 2020)

Good luck today Toppy and Bunty!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Well, that's one sorted. Toppy was very grumbly in his carrier today which isn't like him. Usually he will protest for about ten minutes then accepts it and is quiet but today he was yelling all the way there and sometimes on the way back. 

He's lost a tiny bit of weight, last time 6kg, now 5.91 kg. The vet had to call two nurses to help with taking blood as in her words 'he's being too squirmy today'. She remarked that its nearly a year since this problem first came to light (tell me about it ). She checked him all over, only problem is his mouth, he's got a little lumpy something on one side of his gum which we have to keep an eye on and some tartar but otherwise OK. 

As soon as we got home, no guesses for where he headed. Straight to his lunch bowl. :Hungry

Now we just await results. :Nailbiting


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh darling Toppy I sympathise. It's enough to make any man grumbly and squirmy having to wait till MID-DAY for breakfast:Jawdrop 
You want to follow that up with lunch pdq!


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> Well, that's one sorted. Toppy was very grumbly in his carrier today which isn't like him. Usually he will protest for about ten minutes then accepts it and is quiet but today he was yelling all the way there and sometimes on the way back.
> 
> He's lost a tiny bit of weight, last time 6kg, now 5.91 kg. The vet had to call two nurses to help with taking blood as in her words 'he's being too squirmy today'. She remarked that its nearly a year since this problem first came to light (tell me about it ). She checked him all over, only problem is his mouth, he's got a little lumpy something on one side of his gum which we have to keep an eye on and some tartar but otherwise OK.
> 
> ...


Oh well, even the most chilled chap can get grumpy at times. Glad he's tucked into a very late brekkie. No more rumble tummies. 
Hope Bunty isn't grumpy too and doesn't get stressed. 
Good luck for the second time today. Thank heavens you don't have too far to travel.


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Awww Toppy you brave boy I hope you got treats too!!!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Here's Bunty in the vet's waiting room earlier. It was the only time she wasn't yelling her head off piercingly in my ear. :Wideyed She gets herself so stressed and panting and it was very hot this afternoon.

Unfortunately, she's got to have more dental treatment in the next few weeks. She had some teeth out a couple of years ago so probably that's what will happen again as there are signs of inflammation. Oh for a month when we don't have to go to the vets with someone.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Oh dear poor Bunty. At least you've both been through it before so you know what to expect. I don't think we worry quite so much if we know what's coming. 
Will she be able to have it done at your local vet, or need to travel further afield?
Hope she manages to de stress tonight and calm down. The heat doesn't help I know.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

She's forgotten it already as you can see. Isn't it a good thing they don't understand what the vet is saying. She'll have it done at our vets.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Charity said:


> She's forgotten it already as you can see. Isn't it a good thing they don't understand what the vet is saying. She'll have it done at our vets.
> 
> View attachment 475753
> 
> ...


Aw she looks very relaxed, what a relief.
I expect they'll be comparing notes later .


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

Charity said:


> Here's Bunty in the vet's waiting room earlier. It was the only time she wasn't yelling her head off piercingly in my ear. :Wideyed She gets herself so stressed and panting and it was very hot this afternoon.
> 
> Unfortunately, she's got to have more dental treatment in the next few weeks. She had some teeth out a couple of years ago so probably that's what will happen again as there are signs of inflammation. Oh for a month when we don't have to go to the vets with someone.
> 
> View attachment 475747


Oh poor Bunty! Bless her heart!


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

All the best!! Hope for good news about Toppy.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh goodness me, what a day @Charity ! I'm sorry I couldn't send positive vibes for the vet trips, so I shall send them for the results instead. Well done Bunty and Toppy on getting through the stresses of the day without too much annoyance with your poor Mum


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I bet you are happy that today is over.
It may not have been all good news , well certainly not for Bunty but paws crossed it will just be a scale and polish that's needed .
Toppy's weight loss is as likely to be lack of breakfast or a poo before going to the vet as it is anything else as it is so small.
Good luck with the blood results hope they are okay .


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

Charity said:


> She's forgotten it already as you can see. Isn't it a good thing they don't understand what the vet is saying. She'll have it done at our vets.
> 
> View attachment 475753
> 
> ...


What adorable photos .

You must be relieved that's over @Charity.

Fingers crossed for good news when the blood test results come back. Or as @Cully 
would say…. eyes crossed?! :Woot:Hilarious.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

buffie said:


> I bet you are happy that today is over.
> It may not have been all good news , well certainly not for Bunty but paws crossed it will just be a scale and polish that's needed .
> Toppy's weight loss is as likely to be lack of breakfast or a poo before going to the vet as it is anything else as it is so small.
> Good luck with the blood results hope they are okay .


That's what I said, weight must fluctuate during the day.

I think Bunty's will be more as last time she had reabsorption of the teeth and they said it would recur so, here it is.  I shall get it done sooner rather than later as you can't tell if a cat's in pain or discomfort some of the time can you and I'd hate to think she was, though she eats happily.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

@TriTri , did I really say eyes crossed?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Sorry if I waffle on. 

The vet phoned yesterday with Toppy's results which she's sent me this afternoon, together with a copy of the letter she has sent to the specialist. ALT levels are up again on last time and also some other results, its all pretty double dutch to me.  She did say, and this has been the same all along, that his bile acid results are normal which doesn't fit with the other results as if he has a liver problem, these should be raised.

I had a long chat with her and she actually said to me for the first time, 'if it were my cat I wouldn't go with the biopsy either' which was quite a relief as I have felt quite uncomfortable and pressured disagreeing with the specialist vet who said that this was the only option left, but my gut feeling just keeps rebelling against it while he appears well.

She suggested, and I agreed, that we would stop putting him through tests for six months and I would weigh him monthly and, as long as his weight stayed stable, just carry on as we are but if it drops drastically, to go back. I'm really glad she's suggested this as all this to-ing and fro-ing to vets and getting absolutely no where for what has been twelve months in October, has really got me down. Unless the specialist has something else helpful to suggest, I asked her if she would tell him we didn't want to pursue this any longer.

Earlier, I went through all the notes I made in my diary since April when levels were at their highest to see exactly what he was being given/being done until now. I wrote that when my vet contacted the laboratory who undertake the blood tests, the person there who also couldn't understand what was going on, suggested it may not be a medical issue but something in the home being toxic or similar. When you're desperate for answers, all sorts of things come to mind. Mine at the time were whether it could be the cat litter, so I changed that, or the fact he likes to dig in my flowerpots containing compost so maybe toxicity there so I started cleaning his paws every time he came in. Another consideration was it's stress which I read can be a cause, as this kicked off some time after we got Purdey or does Bunty get on his wick too much always wanting to be with him but my vet doesn't think this is the case. I'm still not convinced.

Anyway, this is the history from April to now.

April 29th - blood test showed ALT levels to be 2,700 (normal is 0-40). (A cat should be very sick with this number).
May 17th - scan by my vet showed some shadowing but bile duct and gall bladder normal, I read that cats with liver issues should have high protein food so I put him on the highest protein wet foods I could find and decided to add some Hills l/d dry to his meals. I also started him on Denamarin liver supplement
June 3rd - first blood test taken by specialist vet, showed ALT levels much reduced to 388.  Some inflammation of liver confirmed and given antibiotics and medication to regulate bile (though there was an error here as my vet didn't give me the correct dose, too low)
June 19th - I changed the liver supplement to Hepatosyl 
July 1st - blood test at specialist vets showed ALT levels down again to 278.  Continuing with the medication but correct dose this time and specialist told me the Hills food wasn't worth giving him as it wasn't for his type of liver condition so I stopped it
July 30th - Blood test showed ALT levels raised to 295.  Had finished antibiotics and so stopped other medication as I didn't feel it was making any difference
Sept 7th - Blood test showed ALT raised again to 489.  The other results which have always been above the norm are Alk Phos, GLDH, CK, HCT, don't ask me what they relate to. Most others have stayed the same or some improved.

So, what do I do now? All my OH and I can think of is going back to replicating 'conditions' as much as possible during the period when things improved I just have no idea what else to do.

I'll have to wait and see what the specialist vet thinks but I have a feeling, as I won't agree to the biopsy, he'll just go along with my vet's suggestion to leave things as they are at the moment and see what happens.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

You've been through so much with him it's not surprising you're unsure what to do now.
As he seems well I think I would go along with the vet and just keep an eye on him and review in six months, unless there are worrying changes.
It really is a mystery though about his levels being so erratic, especially if they show he should be sick when he clearly isn't. My Dr once told me that as medicine isn't an exact science,Ike maths, there can often be discrepancies which have no explanation.
You have the vets backing now to stop tests, so it isn't as if it's just your decision. 
You deserve a rest from all the stress.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I agree with @Cully ,having a bit of "time out" to monitor and treat as necessary/seems to be benefical would be my thoughts too.
I have no real grasp on all the blood results and their findings so cant really comment but I would also wonder why Toppy is not displaying more signs relating to the bloods.
Mistakes / misreadings ( is that a word ? ) can happen in testing so with that possibility I definitely wouldn't be going down the biopsy road as unless I'm mistaken all that will give you is a diagnosis ,it wont offer a cure.
You know your lovely lad so well and know what to look for if he starts to get any worse so give it time and see where you are in 6 months x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I agree with you both, thank you.


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

_"Going back to replicating 'conditions' as much as possible during the period when things improved"_ is what I would do personally. I wouldn't do the biopsy either, personally.


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## popcornsmum (Jan 19, 2015)

I agree with the others comments above too. Bless Toppy he is a mystery! You're doing absolutely everything through can so take each day as it comes and see how he goes. Xx


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