# Black Moore- Cloudy Eye



## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

Ive had my Blackmore since May 2018 and although he’s had a rough start he has been happy and healthy for the past couple of months. 
But I noticed yesterday that he has a white cloudy eye and I don’t know what it is or how I can even begin to treat it.

He is the only fish in a 189 litre tank so I don’t feel as though it’s the water quality but it might be something else... I’ll run some water tests and post the results! 

If anyone can think of anything I’d be grateful for your advice and help


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

K_maggs said:


> Ive had my Blackmore since May 2018 and although he's had a rough start he has been happy and healthy for the past couple of months.
> But I noticed yesterday that he has a white cloudy eye and I don't know what it is or how I can even begin to treat it.
> 
> He is the only fish in a 189 litre tank so I don't feel as though it's the water quality but it might be something else... I'll run some water tests and post the results!
> ...


Could you post a picture, as well as the test results, please?


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

PH reading- 6.4
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrite- 0ppm 
High Range PH- 7.4
Nitrate- 0ppm

The photos aren't that great but if I get a better one I'll upload it as soon as I do!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Are you sure nitrate is 0ppm?

What filter is that? Seems a bit small for a 180ltr, and too small for a goldfish.

Those pictures aren't very clear, unfortunately. It is difficult to take clear pics of fish, so I do sympatise.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

I'm awaiting my new filter to arrive so currently I have a 45-90 litre filter, I do have a backup filter that's a 5-40 litre one so I could put that one in too until the other one arrives?

The nitrate reading in my eyes is still at 0ppm (I have put in a picture at the bottom of the test results I got from 30 minutes ago) just incase.

I also managed to get a clearer picture this morning too that I have also put in.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

That nitrate test is suspect. Do you know your tap water nitrate level? With API you do have to follow the instructions to the letter, and really shake the tube quite hard for the length of time in the instructions.

With the fish being a blackmoor, and therefore having protruding eyes, I wonder if it's caught it on the decor and gravel, and a surface infection has set in? If so, it's easily treated with a dose of Melafix. 

How's the other eye?


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

I have just ran a nitrate test on my tap water as I couldn’t think of another way of knowing but it’s come back as 0ppm as well. I do follow the instructions word for word, is having 0ppm bad? 

And that’s a good point, I do have a little cove that he nuzzles his head into and it does have sharper edges as it’s meant to look like a coral plants growing. 

Is there a specific type of Melafix that I need to use? And his other eye appears to be doing just fine and I can’t see any cloudiness in it.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Hi. Zero nitrates isn't bad but doesn't make any sense. This is because due to the nitrogen cycle ammonia waste produced by the fish is converted to nitrites which are in turn converted to nitrate. The lack of nitrate may mean that the nitrogen cycle isn't working or that one or other of your test reagents aren't working. The issue with this is that if it's the nitrate test not working then no major problem but it could be your ammonia or nitrite test not working and therefore not showing that you have ammonia and nitrite in the tank.

Zero nitrate in tap water is very unusual. The amount of tap water nitrate depends on where the water run off that feeds your water supply runs over. In my part of the country with large amounts of agriculture nitrate is naturally high. In some parts it is lower but the expectations to have detectable amounts.

The sharp ornament could well be to blame. Bubble eye fish are susceptible to injuries frombtank decor so I would remove any sharp objects.

Melafix is the name of the treatment. Shake it well to mix and don't overdose as too much and it can nlknockbout the filter. Lots of 25% water changes should also help with healing.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

kittih said:


> Hi. Zero nitrates isn't bad but doesn't make any sense. This is because due to the nitrogen cycle ammonia waste produced by the fish is converted to nitrites which are in turn converted to nitrate. The lack of nitrate may mean that the nitrogen cycle isn't working or that one or other of your test reagents aren't working. The issue with this is that if it's the nitrate test not working then no major problem but it could be your ammonia or nitrite test not working and therefore not showing that you have ammonia and nitrite in the tank.
> 
> Zero nitrate in tap water is very unusual. The amount of tap water nitrate depends on where the water run off that feeds your water supply runs over. In my part of the country with large amounts of agriculture nitrate is naturally high. In some parts it is lower but the expectations to have detectable amounts.
> 
> ...


Tbf, I don't have any nitrate in my tapwater water, either. In fact, mine's practically RO, it's so pure. Keeping a stable pH has been a monumental PITA, in the past.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

Ahh okay, well I will begin with the 25% water changes a day and order some melafix and remove any sharp objects too. 

How can I check to see if the nitrogen cycle in my tank is as it should be? 

Just also wanted to say thank you again for all of your guys help! I really appreciate it!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

K_maggs said:


> Ahh okay, well I will begin with the 25% water changes a day and order some melafix and remove any sharp objects too.
> 
> How can I check to see if the nitrogen cycle in my tank is as it should be?
> 
> Just also wanted to say thank you again for all of your guys help! I really appreciate it!


You're welcome. Glad we could help. 

All you need to worry about, is ammonia and nitrIte. As long as they're 0ppm, the cycle's as it should be.  Nitrate is 40 times less toxic to fish then the others, so unless you have a sensitive species (and you don't) nitrate under 40ppm is fine.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

So I’ve been doing the 25% water changes and I’m still waiting on the melafix to arrive but it’s now happening to the other eye, and it looks as if he’s got a thing layer of white head his back fins too.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)




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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

He does lool a bit sorry for himself.

Back fin? His dorsal fin, you mean? It does look a bit tatty. He's on his own in there, isn't he? If so, it's likely fin rot (hard, but not impossible, to catch your back on something sharp) The Melafix should help with that too.

Shine a torch in his eyes? You're looking for anything abnormal. Any bubbles, or damage or (highly unlikely, but I want to rule it out) anything moving that shouldn't be which would indicate eye flukes - usually more of a problem with outdoor/wild fish.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

He does doesn't he, but I guess a good sign is that he's still eating even though it takes him a while to find it.. 
when I shined a torch in his eyes I didn't see anything moving but it looks even more so white when you do, also I noticed something on his left eye that looks like it shouldn't be there, below is a picture and the melafix should be arriving soon I just hope it comes fast


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

And yes I think it’s the dorsal fun, in the second picture you can see a part of it shining I think


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Dorsal is the fin along a fish's back. I can see a slime coat reaction on the pectoral (side) fin - that's that white sheen I think you could be referring to?

The blob thing on the eye/socket, tbh, I'm not too sure, but from it's position and appearance, that _could_ be slime coat reaction, too. I'm not confidant on that. though.

2nd picture, along the fish's side, towards the tail, there are three small, white spots. They're not there on the first pic - can you see if they're on the fish itself, or the tank?

All fish are covered in a layer of slime - the slime coat. It forms part of the immune system, much like our epidermal layer of skin, and keeps out everything from large particles to bacteria. When the fish isn't well, the slime coat thickens and comes away.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

So the melafix should sort his eyes out then maybe? And as for the white spots in the second picture I can see very a very faint one so it might have been mostly on the glass.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

Also, is the slime coat harmful to them if it’s on for too long? And also should I up the water changes do you think to help keep the water as clean and safe as possible?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah, the Melafix should help the fins and the eyes.

The slime coat is a natural part of the fish, so no, it won't harm them.

The water changes won't do any harm, but if ammonia and nitrite are 0ppm, I wouldn't. You could check whether your ammonia test is working, by adding some fish food ( a large pinch) to a container of water, leave it overnight and check in the morning. There should then be a reading. If not, you could have a dodgy kit.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

So I have treated my Blackmoore for a week now using following the instructions of treatment on the Melafix bottle. It did look to be clearing up after the seven day period was up and I could see his eye colour again. However he did seem to have a hole in the centre of his eye (like an opening so I could see his eye underneath all of this white coating) 
Here's a picture 
















So because I could still see that the eye wasn't completely healed I decided to go ahead with the further 3 days of treatment recommended (I'm only the second day in) But since doing the 25% water change on the first day I woke up and saw that his eye had fully closed up again and i can hardly see his eye again. In addition to this his colour has gone and his dorsal fin doesn't look like it's doing much better either. 









But the strangest this is these transparent things that are floating on top of the tank (they look to be food but they're definitely not)









And lastly there are this thin tiny things floating in the top corner of my tank that are green with black tips (which must've only appeared recently as I've never seen them in the tank before) 
I don't think they're alive but I also have no clue as to what they are and how they ended up in my tank. Could these be the reason why my fish has fallen sick?
















My tank shouldn't look this dirty on the surface of the water as I've reduced the water volume so the filter is compatible with the water in the tank and I did a 25% water change yesterday? I'm just super confused as to what's going on and if anyone could help I would be so greatful.

Side note: I'm going to move my blackmoore into his old tank until I am confident his white eyes have cleared and I have done a deep clean of all his tank and ornaments inside of it.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

Also I have just witnessed one of the green things with the black tip come out of my Black Moore! And it’s swimming about in the tank with about 6 others.... could it be a parasite??


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

What part of the fish did it come out of? Have you seen them attached to the fish/hanging off it?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Ok, I'm stumped


K_maggs said:


> Also I have just witnessed one of the green things with the black tip come out of my Black Moore! And it's swimming about in the tank with about 6 others.... could it be a parasite??


It is a parasite, but as per @NaomiM's question, it would be helpful for identification purposes to know where it emerged from.

Colour change in Black Moores is a common occurrence -, the gene that controls the black pigmentation is unstable, so it's not uncommon for Black Moores to go gold, for example.

The new problem with the eyes is really strange, and I must confess I've never seen anything like it.

The dorsal fin looks like it's healing to me.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

It came out of the back end of the Black Moore, and no as soon as it left him the thing just started swimming upwards towards the surface which is then where it remained to swim. 

I’m stumped with the eye too because I was so positive that the medicine was working and then a day later it looked like he had gone backwards (also the green things only appeared after I had changed the water too) 

I’m glad that it’s not uncommon and that the dorsal fin looks to be healing though.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, the fact that it emerged from the anus of the fish suggests some type of roundworm, although I'm having difficulty pinpointing the exact species.

Esha Ndx contains levamisole as the active ingredient, which is apparently one of the best meds to treat parasitic worms:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parasite-T...=UTF8&qid=1544717858&sr=8-1&keywords=esha+ndx

I've also heard good things about this:

Sera Med:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sera-med-Nematol-10-ml/dp/B004HFNV0K

Cheaper here - and the description includes dosage instructions:
https://www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/Sera-Nematol/386935/


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

Okay, I think I might go for the first one if it’s considered one of the best medicines for parasitic worms. 

After moving him into his old tank with only a filter in his eyes seem to be doing a little better and less clouded but I’ll just have to keep an eye on it. 

Just one more thing, how would you say that I go about cleaning his new tank that I’ve moved him from (that have the parasitic worms in). I am already going to boil all of his ornaments and stones but I don’t know if I should invest into something to scrub the tanks glass with too so that absolutely nothing is still in their for when I move him back in. Also should I replace the filter foams early after doing so incase they contain a parasite too? 

Once again I cannot thank you enough for the amount of help that you’ve all given to me, I’m so grateful!


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

It kind of looks like he's got a tiny hole in the centre of his left eye, I've tried to get the best picture possible, does that mean that the medicine is working? Because alongside this the cloudiness has gone down so much.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Don't replace anything in the filter - if you do, you'll throw away the good bacteria living inside it, and treating the tank with the eSHa will kill any worms in the filter anyway. It only needs replacing when it's literally falling to bits - and even then, it should only be done gradually, just one piece/section at a time. 

After treatment, place carbon in the filter to remove the meds. Discard after a few days and fill the gap with more filter media (foam, bio balls, etc - just the stuff that goes in the filter).

For the tank strip-down, use some white vinegar and rinse thoroughly afterwards. Replace the substrate (gravel) and yeah, boil the heck out of those ornaments. Personally, I'd be tempted to keep them out of the tank and replace with live or silk (not plastic) plants in case there's anything sharp on those ornaments that I couodn't see, but that's entirely up to you.

I wonder if the white thing around the eyes was just scar tissue then, that's just come off.  

Well done.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Forgot to mention, dilute the vinegar in a ratio of 1:10 - 1 part vinegar, to 10 parts water and still rinse the heck out of it afterwards.


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## K_maggs (May 31, 2018)

No problem I'll do that today then and also this morning his right eye had a hole in it and it's looks to be leaking blood out of the hole?? I don't think that's a good sign... (if you turn your brightness right up it's easier to see) 























And yes I'll go to my local pet store and buy the live plants instead of keeping the plastic ones


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