# 5 month Landseer Newfoundland



## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi All

This is my first post. My newfie will be having a general anaesthetic on Monday to x ray hips and shoulders. They think he may have HD and also a shoulder problem. This is just too awful to contemplate and im hoping that its just because he has grown so quickly. Ive had a newfie before and two pyrenean mountain dogs. This is my first problem with a large breed. I saw a lady had posted whose 8 month newfie had HD but she hasnt reposted since 2008. Anyone know anything as to how they are all coping. My partner keeps saying I must stop jumping the gun and just wait for the results but this pup has the most terrible gait and bunny hops everywhere and limps on right front leg. Oh well will know more on Monday I guess.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

Just nothing worse than realising there is something wrong with our beloved pets.
Good luck for Monday


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi

My Landseer Newfie had to be x rayed today cos of pain. He has HD in both hips plus another genetic disease in his two front legs. We see a specialist orthopaedic next week. How they can do anything for a dog that is basically crippled I dont know. We are completely shattered but will do our best for our Vicannco bred puppy.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I am so sorry about your pup Landseer Newfies are magnificent. Have you let the breeder know, she will surely be interested so she checks on the other pups out of the litter. Wishing your boy good reports...hugs Jill


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Hey, there is plenty they can do!

My Uncle has had two newfies now, his first had hip dysplasia but all he had for it was drugs because it didn't cause him pain, so he just had anti inflammatories and the like to prevent it causing pain. Admitedly he was older (three years old), he was PTS aged 9 but that was down to cancer and absolutely nothing to do with his hips.

5 months is so young, he could improve as he gets older, as you know about it you can keep an eye on his weight and carefully watch how he grows.

There was this story all over youtube a while ago about this golden retriever puppy, had hip replacements and numerous surgeries under a year old, and is doing brilliantly and has been rehomed and everything 

Hydrotherapy is meant to be very good too, there are options out there. Have you got any photos of him?? Newfies are beautiful


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

I have met a lab that worked as a gun dog that had had a hip operation due to dysplasia 
As Tinsley says, hydro is excellent for problems with the joints


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

rona said:


> I have met a lab that worked as a gun dog that had had a hip operation due to dysplasia
> As Tinsley says, hydro is excellent for problems with the joints


Its amazing how common hip operations are now, their gaits can still look a little off but they get along fine, don't they?!

Modern medicine is very good :thumbsup:


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi 

Thanks very much for all your supportive replies. Have quite an update. Our pup does have moderate hip dysplasia in both hips and for that nothing will be done at present. This is normal apparantly but in our case nothing can be done for his hips as the poor chap has OCD (elbow dysplasia) in both front legs. He is with the orthopaedics now having an MRI scan and then they will start the first of two major surgeries. The recovery time is 5 months. The choice was euthanasia or surgeries - nothing in between as his case will not respond to drugs alone. He already has arthritis in his elbows and he is only 5 months. We are obviously going ahead with the first op and see how the progression goes on that particular leg. His second operation is due in one months time. Anyone whose dog has had OCD please please get in touch. 
Thanks


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

Im so sorry,i hope you have informed your breeder as these are hereditary conditions and the parents shouldn`t be being bred from.
My dog had a similar condition to ocd he had IOHC (Incomplete ossification of the humeral Condyle) in both elbows he now has a screw in both elbows.
I really hope your dog is ok,i used to work with newfies (not landseers) they are magnificent dogs and yours is so young to have such conditions


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

There are different levels of displacia some just need slight surgery others need full replacement, the specialists know their stuff and are a lot better than the vets - they deal with it everday so you can be reassured they have the best eyes looking at them and have the best of care. Certainly a worry im sure - all the best


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## dodigna (Feb 19, 2009)

sporti said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks very much for all your supportive replies. Have quite an update. Our pup does have moderate hip dysplasia in both hips and for that nothing will be done at present. This is normal apparantly but in our case nothing can be done for his hips as the poor chap has OCD (elbow dysplasia) in both front legs. He is with the orthopaedics now having an MRI scan and then they will start the first of two major surgeries. The recovery time is 5 months. The choice was euthanasia or surgeries - nothing in between as his case will not respond to drugs alone. He already has arthritis in his elbows and he is only 5 months. We are obviously going ahead with the first op and see how the progression goes on that particular leg. His second operation is due in one months time. Anyone whose dog has had OCD please please get in touch.
> Thanks


I am so sorry about you pup! 
My staffyx was diagnosed with fragmented coronoid process, another form of elbow dysplasia when he was just 9months old and had suffered a slight limp for a while. At first the vet thought it was just a sprain.
We didn't go with the op at the time as it was very mild and an insurance problem made me lose a few months in arguing my case (which I lost). If you are fully insurance many say that the op has great results. I cannot speak for OCD, but with FCP you might need more ops in the future so at £3000 (arthroscopy) I had to pass. The sooner these ops are done the better the outcome and especially for such a big dog recovery is slow.

For such a young dogs being on anti-inflammatory is not ideal as he might need them for a long time (hips), I would strongly suggest you look into alternative therapies such as omeopathy, acupuncture (insurance should cover), ttouch.

Hydro has been mentioned and with a newfy he will be as happy as pie!
This guy set up his own hydro centre for his newfy
http://www.hydrofordogs.co.uk/index.html
I have not used the place before so cannot comment, but read the story as it cheers me up every time.

I am managing ray's dysplasia with rhus tox (instead of rymadil), manuka Honey with bee venom (the venom has anti-inflammatory properties), synoquin tablets, garlic and fenugreek, just started him on syn-flex (liquid glucosamine), ginger. None of these is curative, mind you, but what ever the outcome of his op you will need to supplement him for life.

Rona will come back suggesting cartrophen, I am going to try that next.

Many swears by raw diet and seen much improvement (something else to look into).

Please update on how you are getting on and the results of the mri scan, we all learn from each other experiences.
I keep my finger crossed for you for the results!!!
Big hug!


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi

Thanks so much for your thoughts. He is doing really well coping but no change in his hobbling yet. He has a wonderful attitude and temperament. Will know more on the 31st. I need to get hold of the owners of the other 9 puppies. One I already know. This is because the orthopaedic says all these pups need to be checked out as soon as possible. I cant get the names from the breeder and I cant get the names from the UK kennel club because of the darned data protection act. I have asked them to write to the owners concerned and give them my number then they can call me if they want but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO they cant even do that. The breeder was supposed to call them all but the person I am in touch with says she never got a call. Anyway the sires name is SEAFAR COAST TO COAST and the dams name is OURNEWFBEARS BLARE WITCH. Puppies born July 11th 2009. These pups need checking out - not by a vet - but by an orthopaedic specialist- Hope someone sees this.
Oh and by the way not only does my pup have elbow dysplasia in both front(operation already done) he also has OCD in his shoulders plus moderate hip dysplasia. The shoulders may be operated on in March. We will see how this goes first. He starts his cartophren on 31st. Both his front elbows were operated on 10 days or so ago.


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

So sorry to hear about your poor pup.
One of my cockers has luxating patellas in both back legs, and we have so far decided against surgery.
She is fine, not in pain (and has medication for when she is) and is incredibly happy.
She has had a lot of hydrotherapy and it really helped her.
Good luck and I really hope your breeder gets in touch with all the other puppy owners.
Our breeder was fantastic when we contacted her - once it had been confirmed by her own vet, she refunded our money and also had all the other pups checked out. We were just unlucky - Buffy was the only pup to be affected.
I hope yours gets on ok and good luck with keeping him quiet after surgery!


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

so sorry to hear about your "misadventure" 
it is very sad 

sometimes large breeds puppy have a very painful growth spurts and develop pain in the joints very similar to the clinical effects of displasia and/or arthritis...wait for the Xrays to have a proper diagnosis...

beware that, in the unfortunate case of HD, you have the option to bring in the breeder to bare the costs of treatments if the parents weren't scored before breeding...or if the scores are not excellent...if the breeder refuses this option, going in front of the small claim court is a viable way...

i know it is cold speaking, but in the end if the breeder has done it's job properly and care for its dogs he'll be more than happy to help you out in the sad occurrence, and if not he/she should be taken out of breeding to avoid that similar heart aches happen again to other families and other dogs suffer for their negligence.

hope it all pans out well.
best of luck and regards
D


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi dimkaz

He has had extensive x rays and and an MRI scan. Would love his problems to be 'growing pains' but this is not the case. He is under one of the best orthopaedic specialists in Europe, My pups problems are all inherited problems.
His hips are not of too much concern at present as they are moderate. It is his elbows and shoulders that are crippling him.

Thanks for your reply


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Just an update. Had his stitiches out on the 31st and two days later we were allowed to take off his enormous lampshade round his neck. He also had his first injection to stimulate cartilage growth. Today he has shown an enormous improvement and we are feeling very positive. He enjoyed his walk around the garden. I just need to find his litter brother and sisters but not having any luck there. Next visit to the the specialist will be Jan 29th. Heres hoping for more improvement between now and then


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## dodigna (Feb 19, 2009)

Nice to hear he is doing well. 
What length walk he is allowed to do so far?


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi Dodigna

He should be doing 10 minutes 5 times a day. He does 10 minutes once and the rest around 5-7 minutes. When I say walking - its just slowly around the garden although today he really picked up the pace.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Sporti, I'm glad to hear that your boy is on his feet and in the garden.
I hope you don't mind me saying but for the benifit of others on here who were probably wondering the same thing as me
the sires hip score is 16
the dams is 21
neither dog has been elbow scored from what I can see.

Have you heard anything from the breeder sporti?


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi babycham2002

Thanks for your good wishes. What we have to remember here is that the pup has a genetic joint disease called OSTEOCHONDRITIS DISSECANS. The disease has affected his elbows, shoulder and hips (although hips are moderate). The fact that both dogs hip scores are good has no bearing on the disease this pup has. This is a disease that has been handed down through either the dam or the sire. One of them is a carrier. The last litter of pups affected by this disease may be 3 generations, or more, away but unfortunately it has reared its ugly head again. That is why it is imperative that I get in touch with his litter brothers and sisters. It is very rare to find only one pup in a litter to have the disease. There will be others. Both these dogs should never be bred from again unless they have the genetic testing required to find out if it is the carrier. No comment on the breeder.


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## red dogues (Nov 27, 2009)

so glad to hear that your pup is responding well to the treatment. 

all the best
leigh


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## cappella1990 (Feb 23, 2010)

hi, i just wanted to say i have a viccannico pup from this litter and he is very very sound very big and fantastic looks, he is a joy to live with and im sure he has no problems i wondered if anyone else in this litter has suffered with all these other problems or if they are as happy as we are, i can only thank the breeder for a fab boy.


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## jardine (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi sporti,
I hope your little boy is still progressing well, thank-you for putting the names of the parents on this forum as we are looking for a landseer and will now avoid any we see with these parents. Hopefully someone will come along that has some of the other pups in the litter, good luck with your boy in the future, keep us all informed of his progress.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I am sure if you get the Breed record suppliment(backdated copies) it will have the names etc of the pups owners in there, thats if they have taken the time to transfer ownership from the breeders name to their own after obtaining the pups, may be worth a shot? the breed record suppliment comes out 4 times a year, so you may only have to work out when the pups were born, and get copies from that time to present.

Mo


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## jardine (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi sporti, thank-you for you message i tried to send you a reply but your message box is full.
Ann


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## dodigna (Feb 19, 2009)

How is recovery proceeding?


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## tracey whitney (Feb 25, 2010)

i am the beeder of this pup and i did every thing i could to bring this pup in to the world and on to his new home in the best off health mum and dad had all cheacks that kc ask for and more. pups were seen by my vet befor going to there new homes. and out off a litter of 11 this was to be the only pup with any kind of problem . when the lady told me of my pups problem i asked here for him back many times and not to get him any op's yet let him grow up frist but she said that she thought and i would not have looked after him right if she sent him home to me but if she thought i was such a bad breeder she such not have been buying a pup from me any way he was her dog and she had him in her vets and then put down by 6 months of age then had the cheeck to come and ask for her money back AS A BREEDER WHAT CAN YOU DO WHEN THEY DON'T WANT YOUR HELP (OR MYBE KNOW BETTER)
tracey


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## BigBearsRule (Jun 24, 2009)

tracey whitney said:


> i am the beeder of this pup and i did every thing i could to bring this pup in to the world and on to his new home in the best off health mum and dad had all cheacks that kc ask for and more. pups were seen by my vet befor going to there new homes. and out off a litter of 11 this was to be the only pup with any kind of problem . when the lady told me of my pups problem i asked her for him back many times and not to get him any op's yet let him grow up frist but she said that she thought and i would not have looked after him right if she sent him home to me but if she thought i was such a bad breeder she such not have been buying a pup from me any way he was her dog and she had him in her vets and then put down by 6 months of age then had the cheeck to come and ask for her money back AS A BREEDER WHAT CAN YOU DO WHEN THEY DON'T WANT YOUR HELP (OR MYBE KNOW BETTER)
> tracey


Im sorry, Ive only just caught up with this thread. It seems strange to tell a breeder that they could not take care of the pup properly, after all you raised him, until she took over.
Ive never heard of Newfies being put down for HD, and I have 2 Newfies of my own.


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## dodigna (Feb 19, 2009)

tracey whitney said:


> i am the beeder of this pup and i did every thing i could to bring this pup in to the world and on to his new home in the best off health mum and dad had all cheacks that kc ask for and more. pups were seen by my vet befor going to there new homes. and out off a litter of 11 this was to be the only pup with any kind of problem . when the lady told me of my pups problem i asked here for him back many times and not to get him any op's yet let him grow up frist but she said that she thought and i would not have looked after him right if she sent him home to me but if she thought i was such a bad breeder she such not have been buying a pup from me any way he was her dog and she had him in her vets and then put down by 6 months of age then had the cheeck to come and ask for her money back AS A BREEDER WHAT CAN YOU DO WHEN THEY DON'T WANT YOUR HELP (OR MYBE KNOW BETTER)
> tracey


Hi, I didn't realize the pup had been put to sleep  I tried to pm Sporti with an update on his pup, everything went quiet after the post op intial 10 mins walks 5 times a day update. I knew he was in the care of Fitzpatrick referrals and they are among (if not the) best orthopedic specialists around.
It must have been an extremely severe case for euthanasia to have been advised, the surgeon is quite a pioneer in his field.

I feel really sorry for Sporti and the pup and what they have been through. Thank you for coming onto this thread to explain your side of things, it's only fair and very glad Sporti's pup was the only affected pup, but indeed one of the parents seems to be carrying the condition, alas I am no expert and not sure whether there is a way of testing for this or indeed if the dysplasia gene has been identified at all. Hope some one with experience can come along and offer some advice as even one pup out of 11 is still a risk if the other 10 are to be bred from. Just wish this nasty condition could be eradicated


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh what a shame poor pup, heartbreaking :sad:


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Ive just logged on to this first thing this morning so I need to think about my reply but I will endeavour to make one point perfectly clear. My pup was seen by the bionic vet. You all should know by now through the tv series how brilliant he is. This pup was crippled. He had elbow and shoulder dysplasia of the worst kind. He was NOT PUT DOWN BECAUSE OF HIS HIPS. He did have hip dysplasia and he was going to be reassessed at the age of 18 months FOR HIS HIPS. This dog was in pain before I even took h im to the vet. Just get into your head breeder he was a badly diseased pup. Rest wouldnt have worked in this case. He had an MRI scan even I could see his bones were malformed. He didnt even have a place for his shoulders to fit in properly. He had massive problems which we, as a family with Mr Fitzpatrick, tired to put right. Sadly nature had other ideas. Accept it Tracey Whitnay? Yes you said you wanted him back. I wanted compensation which you flatly refused to give me. You had the report from Fitzpatricks you chose to ignore it. So dont come whining back to this Board how you tried to help me because you DID DIDDLY SQUAT.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

Hi & Welcome,
So saddened to hear that you dog is suffering !
Don't give up hope!
If you take a look on the Many Tears web site there used to be a video on there with the worse case HD that anyone could ever have seen!

Cannot remember the dogs name, but it were a Golden Retriever if I recall!

Take a look!! it'll make you laugh! but it'll make you cry first!
DT


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DT, the pup has been pts.

Have I missed something? I didn't think there was a genetic test for OCD, I know they're working on one for HD, but as long as a breeder does all they can to use elbow grades to make appropriate breeding decisions, that's all you can really ask. Along with other appropriate test results such as Hip Scores etc. 

There is currently no requirement for any breed I know of to test or have the shoulders x-rayed, dogs suffer problems with all their joints, neck, shoulders, elbows, wrists, back, pelvis, hips, hocks etc, to test for all of these would be impossible, and you're asking for a perfect skeleton in all dogs used for breeding, this simply isn't possible.

Unfortunately, despite testing, and using appropriately tested dogs for a breeding programme, breeders cannot be expected to produce genetically perfect dogs, it simply isn't possible. The aim is to produce healthy, happy pups, that have a good temperament, unfortunately, even this isn't always possible. 

I'm really sorry to hear that your pup had to be pts, but I'm also sorry, unless I'm missing something, you can't blame the breeder for a genetic condition that isn't tested for, and can't be tested for. Not unless they are doing something else dodgy, which I haven't seen evidence of on any of the other posts, not that I'm an expert. 

As for compensation, surely if a breeder takes a pup back and agrees to take on the rest of the expense of their treatment and rehabilitation, that's enough? Slightly confused


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

I appreciate your reply BUT THE DOGS PROBLEMS WERE SHOULDER AND ELBOW DYSPLASIA. HE HAD OSTEOCHONDRITIS - disease of the joints.

Its a crying shame that the mother of my pup has already had a second litter when the defect clearly comes from her side of the line. 

Theres no point in discussing this any further.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I get that, but what were the elbow grades of the parents and grandparents (if any). Unless someone's breeding from an above average elbow grade for that breed, then they're abiding by the recommendations. It's a shame if they haven't elbow graded when it's recommended, as you can't always tell whether a dog has a low or high grade, simply because they are sound, or not.

Honestly, the OCD is something that isn't tested for, it is so, so sad for your pup, but again, unless the breeder already had dogs where this had become a known problem, and was using them to breed from, what else can they do? There is no current test for this that I know of. 

What I'm trying to say is that it's an absolute bu$$a when it's your dog that suffers from something that isn't tested for. But honestly, dogs are animals, they are bound to have genetic defects, the same as we have, and it would be impossible to test for absolutely everything. That's why there are recommended tests for certain breeds, for health issues that are known to be a problem within a breed. 

Does that make sense? So if the breeder was knowingly breeding from dogs that had been diagnosed, or at least they suspected had joint problems, then that is definitely wrong. However, if they had done the recommended health tests, including having her breeding sock elbow gradied if it's recommended for newfoundlands (just seen it is), then really, they were doing all that they can under the current guidelines.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sporti said:


> I appreciate your reply BUT THE DOGS PROBLEMS WERE SHOULDER AND ELBOW DYSPLASIA. HE HAD OSTEOCHONDRITIS - disease of the joints.
> 
> Its a crying shame that the mother of my pup has already had a second litter when the defect clearly comes from her side of the line.
> 
> Theres no point in discussing this any further.


You and I were editing at the same time, perhaps we both need more sugar in our morning tea.

Please, do discuss further if you need to. Don't be put off by posting, if the breeder is irresponsible, it will help others. If it's a problem that couldn't have been forseen, it will hopefully help you.

I know the genetic test for example for HD that's being developed, will be much more complicated than the simple clear/carrier/affected you get for some of the current genetic tests. Genetic conditions do get very complicated, and I'm hoping somebody like Swarthy or similar will spot this post and help out with info. So please don't feel you can't post.


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Her bitch was not elbow tested and neither was the sire. The sire has now been tested with a perfect score and his owner/breeder has gone to a lot of trouble going down the line and has found nothing. On the other hand I believe it was suggested that the bitch have her elbows tested before she had another litter of pups. There is a genetic test for the problems my pup had. I was told this by our ortho vet. I suggested to the breeder that this be done. It seems strange to me that breeders ask for the pup back but no mention is made of the thousand or so pounds that she or he has been given for the pup. Doesnt make economic sense to me. Anyway the dog needed treatment end of story. Hopefully by now ournewfbears blair witch will have had her elbows tested and been genetically tested and maybe the breeder might even be a member of one of the many newfoundlands clubs. Hopefully that will reassure the new litters owners.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok, thanks for shedding a bit more light on the situation.

Two things about the test for OCD, I simply don't know of one that's available to use, and reliable, I'm by no means hugely knowledgeable, but as someone interested in Labrador health, I would have hoped by now I might have been aware of a genetic test for OCD, as Labs can also suffer with this condition.

Also, it isn't recommended by the KC, possibly because it's very new if the one your orthopaedic surgeon has told you about is on the market, and may take a while to implement; elbow grading is however, so it would be good for the breeder to undertake. However, if you know anything about the elbow grading scheme, then you'll know that it isn't as accurate as the hip scoring scheme, nor has it been around for as long. 

As an example, hip scoring in Labradors is out of a total of 106, so each hip is scored out of a maximum of 53, the lower the better. So if there is much more scope to score accurately. The elbow grading system is from 0-3, so only out of a possible four marks, much less accurate than the hip scoring system.

Also, the dam may well have lovely low elbow grades, it may just be that those two dogs together, genetically will pass the condition on in a way that will develop as a problem, if that makes sense? I know of a lady with a lovely working Labrador, low scores, put to a lovely proven dog, low scores, no history of any problems in either side, but together these two dogs threw out high scoring pups, some had gone on to develop dysplasia, I believe. Even with all the tests in the world, we are hardly scratching the surface, and even when we try to use the tests to produce healthy pups, it cannot be a guarantee unfortunately. 

If you have a link to the test for the genetic test for OCD I really would be interested, as I'm sure would others with breeds where this can be a problem. 

I'm sorry as I seem to be all negative, I'm not defending the breeder, nor am I trying to be negative to you, just trying to explain from my point of understanding how the health tests are used, and apologies if you already know this information.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

Heck yes Sleeplion!
I only just noticed!!
BUT! looking at the times that Sporti posted and the time I post I can only assume that I had written my post prior to them posting!

I was always known for only reading the first post (to my shame) but on this thread did also look at the last post! Or at least thought I did! That said I was speaking to BBM around that time, and also feeding the woofers!! 

To the original poster, I am sorry if I have casued you any distress, and my condolences following your sad loss!

Run free puppy, you will hurt no more!
DT


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Heck yes Sleeplion!
> I only just noticed!!
> BUT! looking at the times that Sporti posted and the time I post I can only assume that I had written my post prior to them posting!
> 
> ...


DT anyone who knows you will know you wouldn't have anything but the greatest sympathy for the op and their plight 

Sporti, just re-read your post about the ortho specialist saying there is a genetic test available, and it seems to be referring to elbows, really? I'd have to say unless your ortho vet knows something the KC and everybody else knows, I'm afraid they are wrong. Elbow grading is done by taking x-rays of the elbow joint at various angles, these plates are then submitted by the BVA (British Veterinary Association) for grading, hence the term elbow grading. The plates are looked at by a speclialist panel, who sit regularly to assess numerous submissions of plates. It is possible to have a bad set of plates taken of your dogs' joints, and unfortunately it can affect the outcome, giving you a higher grade, (or hip score for those plates) but it isn't possible to submit a bad set of plates and get a better grade or score. Hope that makes sense. Here's a link to the BVA's elbow scheme:

BVA Guide to Elbow Dysplasia


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

All I can remember is that I was told that the mother of my pup ought to be genetically tested. Thats all I remember. I had other things on my mind. I have asked the moderator to close this thread.


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

Maybe someone might want to bring this topic up on the forum at some point?

Does everybody declare the income they get for selling puppies to the inland revenue?


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

sporti said:


> Maybe someone might want to bring this topic up on the forum at some point?
> 
> Does everybody declare the income they get for selling puppies to the inland revenue?


Now that is something that has bugged me for some time!
And yep!! there is one I know who is actually vet registered so I guess you will always find one!

BUT the majority don't, which is OK when we are talking about the occassional litter for the love of the breed!

However, I cannot be doing with these byb who throw a litter everytime they want a new sofa, or christmas is approaching!!

That said, it is up to the buyer to reseach their choosen breed, and consequently their breeder to satisfy themselves that the pup they are buying has been breed to the highest standard , with all the relevant healthchecks and with the upmost care.

regards
DT


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just on the phone, but will reply as sson as I can


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## dodigna (Feb 19, 2009)

The income issue is going totally out of topic, so maybe a different thread should be raised?

I know one thing for certain though... If I was a breeder I would make it my utmost responsibility to breed as healthy dogs as I possibly could since it is not a money earning scheme and since the cost of the pups would cover the cost of raising the pups, etc. So no breeding plans no expense...

If I knew one of my pups had turned out as badly affected by a condition as Sporti's has it would be imperative for me to bring my bitch to the same orthpedic vet the pup was and have the surgeon in question give her a thorough checking up. If I was conforming to the KC breed health test requirements already (not in this case I accept), and get wind there is a new test out there I would def try and get my breeding stock checked according to this test or at the very least have a word with the surgeon that mentioned about it. If I didn't want to do any of that I would at the very least stop breeding from my dog. Because we don't know the exact way to locate the ED gene it does not mean that we can carry on breeding from stock that clearly carry it.
There are 10 pups out there who could potentially be carrier of this gene without being physically affected, so would it not be wiser to make sure this breeding line is completely closed!? 

The bitch in question has been bred again from, meaning there are how many pups out there now with the potential to develop or pass the condition?


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## sporti (Dec 10, 2009)

THANK YOU DODIGNA. THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. AT LEAST SOMEONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT WHAT THIS BREEDER HAS DONE IS WRONG. Another 7 been born. 

I did suggest that someone started a thread re the inland revenue.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

sporti said:


> All I can remember is that I was told that the mother of my pup ought to be genetically tested. Thats all I remember. I had other things on my mind. I have asked the moderator to close this thread.


as per OP request


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