# Age to mate a girl



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I take it you mean the age of her first mating? If so, the *extremes* are between 5 months, the earliest age at which the most precocious siamese shows any signs of maturity/inclination to call, and 2 years (some breeds are slower to reach maturity or are difficult to see when they are calling).

Normally though, queens may be taken for their first honeymoon between the ages of 10/11 months and 18 months.

My own girls tend to be around 12-15 months old for their first honeymoon. At this age, they are fully grown, have called a few times, you know their calling pattern and will have established a good relationship with any stud in case you need to take her out.

I am sure others will offer slightly differing opinions based on their experience or their own breeds.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes i would agree with you Rita-though some Siamese gals at least start calling from 17 wks


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

You're right Kelly it can be as young as that but even so, you'd have to be utterly ruthless to take a girl as young as 17 weeks or even five months to stud. LOL   None of us would do that in reality ...


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Rraa said:


> You're right Kelly it can be as young as that but even so, you'd have to be utterly ruthless to take a girl as young as 17 weeks or even five months to stud. LOL   None of us would do that in reality ...


Well you'd have to hope not


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

I wouldnt do any younger than 10/11 months. Earlier than that and they are still babies themselves  But thats only my opinion. Everyone is different. 

I have a planned mating schedule starting from that age up to about 14 months (for their first mate) which shows expected kitten birth date, weaning date, leaving dates etc.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

I think the time depends on the breed? also I prefer them to have @ least 2 callings, them maybe mate on the 3rd! so long as there over 1yr old,


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

I only have two girls but my first was 18 months before going to stud and the second was 14 months. I wouldn't have really mated mine before 12 months but it depends on circumstances really.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Ideally I would'nt mate before 12 months, both my queens were over 12 months*


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## drawn-to-animals (Apr 3, 2008)

i agree, i wouldnt mate a female under 12 months - my first litters have all been between 12 and 18 months.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Totally depends on the breed! I breed Ori's/Siams, breeds that do mature sexually very early on. My own girls call every 3 weeks approx. for 5-8 days each call. The youngest I have ever mated is 8 months and that was our Cointreau. She came into call at 4 1/2-5 months and then called religiously every few weeks. At 7 1/2 months I contacted the GCCF to get their advice, I also took her into our own vet to have her health checked, to discuss the calling situation and my vet advised me to mate her. GCCF said to go with what our vet advised! She was a good, strong healthy girl. Mated at 8 months, produced a wonderful litter of 4 babies who are now fully grown adults in their own homes. I make no apologies for mating a girl that young, it was the best thing to do for her health. I have also bred a Siam kitten who had her first full call at 3 1/2 months and needed to be spayed shortly afterwards. I can appreciate it is not the same for other breeds, but for my breeds, they mature early sexually. As a rule, with MY chosen breeds, I choose to mate them at approximately 11 months of age, by which time, most of them have called more than 4 times if not more. I've only ever mated a queen early once and that was the abovementioned case and I certainly don't regret it  I do hope I don't have to do it again, we were just bloody lucky she was fit, healthy, and mature enough to cope with a litter and she was (and still is) a wonderful mummy


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

We left ours to chance and Lursa had her first lot of babies at 1 year and 1 month so she was obviously ready. On the other hand her half sister Anara , who's the same age, hasn't really shown much interest in our stud.

Fiona


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> Totally depends on the breed! I breed Ori's/Siams, breeds that do mature sexually very early on. My own girls call every 3 weeks approx. for 5-8 days each call. The youngest I have ever mated is 8 months and that was our Cointreau. She came into call at 4 1/2-5 months and then called religiously every few weeks. At 7 1/2 months I contacted the GCCF to get their advice, I also took her into our own vet to have her health checked, to discuss the calling situation and my vet advised me to mate her. GCCF said to go with what our vet advised! She was a good, strong healthy girl. Mated at 8 months, produced a wonderful litter of 4 babies who are now fully grown adults in their own homes. I make no apologies for mating a girl that young, it was the best thing to do for her health. I have also bred a Siam kitten who had her first full call at 3 1/2 months and needed to be spayed shortly afterwards. I can appreciate it is not the same for other breeds, but for my breeds, they mature early sexually. As a rule, with MY chosen breeds, I choose to mate them at approximately 11 months of age, by which time, most of them have called more than 4 times if not more. I've only ever mated a queen early once and that was the abovementioned case and I certainly don't regret it  I do hope I don't have to do it again, we were just bloody lucky she was fit, healthy, and mature enough to cope with a litter and she was (and still is) a wonderful mummy


Thats really interesting and reassuring to know Kat. I will keep it in mind should i need to contact my vet regarding the same now that we have a Siam


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Thats really interesting and reassuring to know Kat. I will keep it in mind should i need to contact my vet regarding the same now that we have a Siam


Unfortunately, as you may find out lol, the Siams (and Ori's) are total slappers. The youngest future queen in our home is now 6 1/2 months and has already had a full call. I did tell her to make it her last as she ain't being mated until next year but I don't she'll listen


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> Unfortunately, as you may find out lol, the Siams (and Ori's) are total slappers. The youngest future queen in our home is now 6 1/2 months and has already had a full call. I did tell her to make it her last as she ain't being mated until next year but I don't she'll listen


LOL little monkey!


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I know we are talking about planned pregnancies here, but I have a Kitten who is spot on 5 and a half months old and about 1 day overdue on giving birth.
This means she mated at less than 4 months old!!!
A neighbours Tom 'broke' into my house!


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

That is incredibly young  I hope she will be okay.


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## Sarnajes (Mar 30, 2008)

I waited until Poppy was over a year old before mating her.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

helz said:


> I know we are talking about planned pregnancies here, but I have a Kitten who is spot on 5 and a half months old and about 1 day overdue on giving birth.
> This means she mated at less than 4 months old!!!
> A neighbours Tom 'broke' into my house!


Bloody hellSorry but thats far too young imo-she's a baby still herself!Not to be rude but did you not think to get her spayed or keep her in for a while?


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## drawn-to-animals (Apr 3, 2008)

i agree i think that is far too young.... really hope she gets through the birth ok......... she still just a baby.


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

helz said:


> I know we are talking about planned pregnancies here, but I have a Kitten who is spot on 5 and a half months old and about 1 day overdue on giving birth.
> This means she mated at less than 4 months old!!!
> A neighbours Tom 'broke' into my house!


Why didn't you have the pregnancy terminated ? she is far to young to be a Mum poor girl


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

helz said:


> I know we are talking about planned pregnancies here, but I have a Kitten who is spot on 5 and a half months old and about 1 day overdue on giving birth.
> This means she mated at less than 4 months old!!!
> A neighbours Tom 'broke' into my house!


 We don't let any of our moggies out until they're at least 6 months old and have been spayed and I wouldn't leave our Bengal Queens unsupervised with our stud until they were at least 10 months old.

I hope your girl and the kittens are OK, please keep us updated.

Fiona


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

She of course went for a vet visit, the vet said because she thought she was quite a way through the pregnancy before we even suspected she was pregnant, it would have been a failry major operation for her to be spayed and terminate at that point.

Did we not think of getting her spayed - yes, of course, however in the are I live vets are reluctanct to spay until about 6 months old, as I have posted she was less than 4 months!
She was only allowed in the garden supervised, the other Tom cat came into my house!

She had a good look over by the vet - whos advice was to continue with the pregnancy, she felt she wouldn't be any more likely to have complications that an older cat. She is now about 5 1/2 months old, and about to pop.
Remember cats do most of their growing in the first 6 months, so by the time she actually comes to give birth, she will be alot bigger than the 3 1/2 month old that got pregnant. And much more closer to the size of an adult cat.

She seems to be coping well, and up till this weekend has still be very playful. She has now started to sleep alot more and we expect the Kittens to arrive any day now.

I agree that this is far too young for her to be pregnant, but It was not planned.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Thanks for the update  And I'm sure that no one on here thought this was planned. You had already explained in your first post about a male getting into your home. It must be worrying for you as she is so young. I couldn't imagine one of our Ori's coping physically or mentally with birth at that age  Why on earth don't people have male cats neutered if they are allowed outdoors 

I do hope that your girl has a very easy labour and that the babies will thrive.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

My cat is nearly a year and has just had kittens - this was also unplanned. 
It is not so much the carrying the kittens but feeding them will be a dreadful struggle for her in my opinion - make sure she gets lots of high quality food - remember she should still be on kitten food herself. In my opinion cats are no-where near full size at 6 months even if the growth rate slows after then. My girl still looks a bit kitten like and I don't expect her to be quite her full size until 18mths and think they gradually increase in size until around 3yrs.

Emily


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

I totally agree with you about the growth Emily as our breeds continue to grow until approximately 2 years of age. And I do worry about the effect it would have on a kitten's mental state to become a mother so young.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

It's really sad and going to be hard on the poor kitten/cat - it's not nice to hear even though accidents happen - a Tom broke into my next door neighbours house to mate her Queen - he got stuck head first down the back of the boiler after getting frightened when she got home. We both had two coats and gardening gloves on to drag him out because we were so scared he'd attack - it was quite funny actually!
Zelda was rescued from a farm with other semi-wild cats - she was definitely over 4 months and hadn't got pregnant probably luck that she didn't call until older. You just have to hope that nature allowed her to get pregnant and will also allow an easy birth.

Emily


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

Be prepared,make sure you have plenty of substitute milk from the vets and a lot of time!as there is a high chance that she may not feed them.Hope all goes well.And i know its not a nice thought but vets will still spay very late on,i dont think its particually any more risky just more costly to you.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Just to let you know she gave birth this evening to 5 good size healthy kittens. She did her job perfectly, I am so proud of my little girl. Was about 2 1/2 hours from start to finish.
The first one and the last ones seemed a but of a struggle, these two came out feet first if that makes a difference.

She is loving them, feeding them and cleaning them well and seems very pleased with herself.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Congratulations Helz, glad she managed with the birth ok and that Mum and babies are ok. Fingers crossed for you that they all continue to thrive.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

thanks very much!


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Glad things went well,i hope they continue to do so-sorry to have been abrupt but if that was my gal knowing that other toms are about i would have done everything possible to keep this from happening but we live and learn


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Glad to hear that the birth went smoothly, and the babies are okay, that is a relief


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Great news, Thanks for letting us all know*


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Great news, I'm really pleased things worked out OK 

Fiona


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

awwww havent we had alot of kitties and puppies born these last few weeks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


glad all went ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Glad things went well,i hope they continue to do so-sorry to have been abrupt but if that was my gal knowing that other toms are about i would have done everything possible to keep this from happening but we live and learn


I'm sure you would have done. But unfortunatly, although I have had many cats in the past, I rely largly on info from sources such as RSPCA. This is a quote from their website 
"Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months."
My cat would have been spayed by this time, however, she managed to get pregnant at 3 1/2 months old.

I'm sure you will agree that is unusally young and it would be very hard to find any publications that say that this is even possible. So much so, that even when I suspected she was pregnant, and I phoned about 6 different vets, I was told that was so near impossible that I must be wrong. I was told time and time again, that she probably had worms.

No vet in my area would spay a girl or neuter a boy that young. Given that she was living with her brothers, (who could be as sexaully advanced as her), if this cat hadn't have got to her, they could of.

You may be in the states, in which case, it is likely vets spay/neuter younger. But assuming your in the UK, if you had boys and girls from the same litter, would you seriously have seperated them as young as 15 weeks?
...I doubt it!


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

My vet doesn't neuter\spay until 6 months which is a little worrying. I honestly wouldn't have thought a cat so young could get pregnant.

Fiona


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

I would just like to add that you can spay early......................

Early age altering (spaying) usually refers to spays and neuters done between the ages of 8 and 16 weeks instead of the conventional 5-7 months. 

Please see article attached that I sourced from a breeder.

Now im not saying that this is correct in my eyes because I think they are far too young to undergo such a large operation at such a young age, but I thought you might be interested to know that it can be done.
This however is at the discretion of the vet of course. 

I actually uncovered it from a breeder who was willing to sell me a kitten on the active so long as i agreed to sign her kitten contract which stated that all kittens are to be spayed before they go to their new homes to prevent unwanted & unregistered breeding. I personally didnt agree with the early operation and therefore sourced another breeder.
She sent me this article and I thought some of you may find it interesting - i certainly did!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> u can but alot of vets won't do it!


and i dont blame them either fluff - i wudnt if i were a vet!


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> and i dont blame them either fluff - i wudnt if i were a vet!


I can understand wanting to stop unwanted cats as there are so many in rescue centres.

I think that if cats can get pregnant at 3-4 months then providing they're healthy enough I can't really see anything wrong with neutering them at that age. The difficulty would be finding a vet to do it. We just keep ours indoors until they've been spayed and the Bengals aren't allowed out anyway.

Fiona


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> u can but alot of vets won't do it!


This is what I found, I phoned 6 vets and they all said to me 6 months. I managed to persuade one vet to do my boys at 5 months as they a pretty big lads and my girl was already pregnant.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

helz said:


> I'm sure you would have done. But unfortunatly, although I have had many cats in the past, I rely largly on info from sources such as RSPCA. This is a quote from their website
> "Most cats are sexually mature at six months, but some cats can become pregnant as early as five months."
> My cat would have been spayed by this time, however, she managed to get pregnant at 3 1/2 months old.
> 
> ...


Actually-i would again sorry if i offend you helz but i am giving my honest opinion and i know sometimes these things happen-as i said we all live and learnI am in UK btw


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

helz said:


> Just to let you know she gave birth this evening to 5 good size healthy kittens. She did her job perfectly, I am so proud of my little girl. Was about 2 1/2 hours from start to finish.
> The first one and the last ones seemed a but of a struggle, these two came out feet first if that makes a difference.
> 
> She is loving them, feeding them and cleaning them well and seems very pleased with herself.


That is excelant news


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Actually-i would again sorry if i offend you helz but i am giving my honest opinion and i know sometimes these things happen-as i said we all live and learnI am in UK btw


Don't worry, you don't offend me, I just find this very hard to believe.

...so she gave birth 2 days ago and I am pretty sure she is back in heat! This is one randy cat! Is it okay to (and is a vet likely to) spay her when the kittens are still suckling?


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

No a vet wouldn't do this and no it's not okay,she's probably just confused rather than back in call as her hormones are everywhere-they get very loved up before they give birth and after too.She'll calm down a bit


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

helz said:


> Don't worry, you don't offend me, I just find this very hard to believe.
> 
> ...so she gave birth 2 days ago and I am pretty sure she is back in heat! This is one randy cat! Is it okay to (and is a vet likely to) spay her when the kittens are still suckling?


No - she needs to finish suckling or the milk will dry up - you have to keep her in! She will be weak from the birth and it will do her harm to get pregnant again!!

secondly if you know the signs of a cat being in heat - you should have separated them - Kelly I believe would def recognise signs and do this - wanting the best for her cats.

Emily


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Thankyou Emily


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> No - she needs to finish suckling or the milk will dry up - you have to keep her in! She will be weak from the birth and it will do her harm to get pregnant again!!
> 
> secondly if you know the signs of a cat being in heat - you should have separated them - Kelly I believe would def recognise signs and do this - wanting the best for her cats.
> 
> Emily


I have no intention of letting her get pregnant again (or letting her out), If i did, I wouldn't have been asking about how soon she could be speyed! but she lives with her 2 brothers, who were neutered 3 weeks ago. Knowing my luck, they will still have some active sperm, so I was just checking my options. And yes, the boys are seperated from her at the moment.

I did not know the signs of being in heat 9 weeks ago, I just did alot of reading when I thought she might be pregnant. And in retrospect, do not recall her ever showing any signs of being in heat.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Sometimes as mum is young calling behaviour/patterns can be missed and even as when they are older they can be missed as they can be really quiet and just seem a little clingy,but as long as she is well and kitts are well-then this is good news,do you have any thoughts as to what you'll do with kitts,will you keep or rehome or are you just wanting to get them up and grown for now?


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Well we have got 2 beautiful ginger males that have homes already. I was most worried about homing these two, because personally I would never get a ginger cat (just a personal thing), but these ones so so lovely with little tiger stripes.

I have also got one tortie girl, who has a home, with my brother in law (to be), the only thing is his girlfriend is allergic to cats (something to do with the saliver) but has less of a problem with females, so we are just hoping this will work out.

I also have a black and a black & white, these two I am not sure of the sex, as I can't go by colour, but I think they are boys. If one turns out to be a girl, she will go with the tortie. But I have possible homes for these 2 aswell.

If the tortie girl goes by herself, and they do have a problem with an allergy, then we will take her back and keep her, if they take two kittens, this will be harder for us to do, as we already have 3 cats living here.

...so any tips on saliver allergys will be great!

I would love to keep them all, and I have been so fussy about who I have let have them, I just can't bare to think someone wont look after them right.

We wont be re-homing them till they are 8 weeks old, so they get everything they need from mummy and are litter trained. We are confident that they will all turn out to be very tame good natured cats as mum has let us handle them alot already.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Here is a great post someone sent me on how to sex the kittens...

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/6793-please-help-not-wind-up-4.html#post146122

Hope that helps you out.

Emily


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I am confused by your post Helz.*



> I have also got one tortie girl, who has a home, with my brother in law (to be), the only thing is his girlfriend is allergic to cats (something to do with the saliver) but has less of a problem with females, so we are just hoping this will work out.


*How is the problem of saliva different in the males & females ? I've never heard that one before like. Usually the allergy is to the fur.*



> I also have a black and a black & white, these two I am not sure of the sex, as I can't go by colour, but I think they are boys.


*I'm not being funny, but are you sexing kittens by colour ? Unless you know the genetics and the parents background, you can't sex by colour. The only one you could virtually guarantee would be torties, I say virtually, because there is a very rare chance of a tortie boy. You can tell the difference in the sexes , to put it bluntly, females have the 2 holes close together, the males have a gap between.

I hope you manage to find the right loving homes for them*


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

The saliva bit is possible as 2 different blood types,but confused with the rest myself


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Glad i'm not the only one then Kelly*


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I can sex by colour as I have read about how the genetics of a cat work.
The colour gene is carried on the X chromosone.
Females have an XX and males have an XY.
The father is completely black, therefore carried only the black gene.
The mother is tortie, therefore carried both Black and Ginger genes.

The possible out comes for boys, are all ginger (where they got the ginger gene from mum); or black (where they got the black gene from either mum or dad)

The possible outcomes for the girls are, tortie (where they got the ginger gene from mum, and the black gene from dad); or black (where they got a balck gene from both mum and dad).

This means I know that gingers must be boys, torties must be girls and black (or black and white) can be either.

Just as a note, you can only ever get a ginger female from having a ginger mum and dad. (or tortie mum and ginger dad). And you can never get a tortie male unless there is a defect and he will be sterile.


As for the saliver allergic issue, most people who are allergic to cats actually have a problem with something in the saliver, I know it causes a histamine reaction and something to do with testosterone makes it worse, but I don't know the full detials. The fur is normally only a problem for asthmatics.


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## MrsNik (Dec 5, 2007)

I have never bred cats...what is a call? Is that the same as a season?...

My dumb ex husband left our window open one night and our 5 month old kitten went out and didnt come back until the next night (I was petrified for her my poor baby!) That was about 4 weeks ago...when she came back she was kinda rubbing herself over everything and making cooing noises. Our vet said that she was in season but doubts she will have been caught as she is so young. ...Shes a moggy btw!! She hasnt done this since. Just that one night she came home. Oh and shes a house cat btw!


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Mate calls, are what a cat does when she is in season, it is how she attracts the male to her.
Just because she is only 5 months old, does not mean she wont have got pregnant. As i have found out when my 3 and a half month old got pregnant (explained in the posts above).
Rubbing herself against you can be a sign of heat (it can also be a sign of affection), however, cats are what we call induced ovulaters, which basically means that if they are mated they very quickly go out of heat. Therfore if you believe she is still in heat, then the chances are, she was not mated.

If you are not planning on mating, the safest thing is to get her spayed, there are many other reasons to spay a cat, including and reducing and eliminating the risk of many cancers. Also helping preventing the spread of FIV and many other dieases.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*In cats it's called being "in call" in dogs it's called being "in season"
It's not your fault that she got out, though it is very possible your kitten has been caught by a male & got pregnant, though I hope not being so young. 
It's different if you have house cats and you have entire males & females you tend to look out for the girls coming into call. Though accidents do happen. A lot of breeders do house their Stud boys outside, partly because many(though not all) spray and partly to stop unwanted matings.*


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## MrsNik (Dec 5, 2007)

Ive never had an unspayed cat before so to be honest I didnt really have a clue what she was doing!! We were waiting until she was 6 months old before getting her spayed....so I was told its best to wait until this age...not sure why....She has always been a very affectionate cat so with any luck she wasnt caught!! I couldnt spay her knowing there was a chance she could be pregnant


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

MrsNik said:


> Ive never had an unspayed cat before so to be honest I didnt really have a clue what she was doing!! We were waiting until she was 6 months old before getting her spayed....so I was told its best to wait until this age...not sure why....She has always been a very affectionate cat so with any luck she wasnt caught!! I couldnt spay her knowing there was a chance she could be pregnant


I found most vets wont spay until 6 months old, this is why I have new born kittens!
When I found out she was pregnant, I spoke to the vet about the option of spaying her (and terminating) as all I wanted was what was best for my little girl. The vet said that spaying her would be a fairly major operation (as she was already 5 to 6 weeks pregnant) and she didn't really think it would be a problem for her to have them.
I think I may have got a different answer if we have realised a few weeks before (at week 2 or 3).


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