# OMG! At the end on my leash - TV programme



## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Channel - Animal Planet. Times - 7.30am and repeated again at 4pm. 'At the end of my leash starring *Brad Pattison* as the 'trainer'. 

I caught this today, did not realise that BP had crept onto our screens here in the UK. OMG.  Yank, jerk, yell, confront blah blah blah. Thanks Animal Planet. :thumbsup: Just what the UK dogs needed in the wake of the CM idol worship phenomena. ut: Now we have 'Brad'. We are not worthy.

The programme I watched was about a wheaten terrier who barks non stop. Family consisted of a harrassed mum and toddler and a next to useless soft lump of a husband. Programme showed Brad doing a little hard yanking on the dogs collar and teaching the family not to allow the dog to go up or downstairs etc unless it was told. Showed nothing about how to teach a dog to be quiet etc but after concentrating on working on the husband to learn to trust his wifes judgement (entailed blindfolding husband and his wife then guiding him over stepping stones over a little stream cool ) the programme then showed the dog in the house miraculously well trained, no barking, coming when called etc! It was all too obvious that the dog had been retrained elsewhere and was responding to (watching intently actually) someone off camera giving it cues! Cr*p, cr*p, cr*p and if this man is another macho trainer that the UK public are going to fall for hook line and sinker then poor dogs!!! I shall watch this programme again and again to get a wider picture but from what I have seen so far in clips I have watched previously and todays programme, a monkey in a wet suit wearing a pink fluffy hat would make a more believable dog trainer!  Why have rubbish like this on when there is Victoria Stilwell etc? Cheap filler maybe?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

drama sells... and Vlad is nothing if not dramatic,  
like CM/Dog-Wrestler he uses / over-uses correction AKA aversives + punishment; UNLIKE the Dog-Shouter he also verbally abuses the humans, uses aversives on them, etc. 
on one well-known and controversial episode, he PARTIALLY-Painted a clients wall to force them to finish it, and if i am not mistaken, some of the painting was training slogans or instructions - not a total-surface painting, more like verbal graffiti. (i never saw that episode - i am going by 2nd hand description). 

he sells himself not merely as a Dog-Trainer - that is far too-narrow  he is a LIFE * COACH, yup he can fix marriages, help U to lose weight, improve a chronically cyclic depression, etc etc etc. Amazing, eh? 
he also can make coffee and does a mean back-yard BBQ :lol: 

there was a very-ugly encounter between Vlad-the-bad-dog-handler and a group of Pos-R trainers and pet-owners in the lobby of a hotel; he proceeded to take the leashes of 2 dogs in sequence, and drag them forcibly around the lobby and up the steps, and down again, with the dogs yelping; the 1st owner was in tears when her dog was returned. he verbally abused owner #2, when she did not want him to take the leash of her dog. 
he was only stopped by a trainer who got between him + dog #3, whose owner was already weakly protesting but very intimidated.  it was an outrageous display of rude and overbearing behavior, in very public circs. 
--- terry


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

oh great cesars cousin then?

victoria stilwell shown on bbc1 ... every night - or mic martin - show dog owners how to train PROPERLY....


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> there was a very-ugly encounter between Vlad-the-bad-dog-handler and a group of Pos-R trainers and pet-owners in the lobby of a hotel; he proceeded to take the leashes of 2 dogs in sequence, and drag them forcibly around the lobby and up the steps, and down again, with the dogs yelping; the 1st owner was in tears when her dog was returned. he verbally abused owner #2, when she did not want him to take the leash of her dog.
> he was only stopped by a trainer who got between him + dog #3, whose owner was already weakly protesting but very intimidated.  it was an outrageous display of rude and overbearing behavior, in very public circs.
> --- terry


I recall us discussing Vlad a while ago on here? That's if my foggy memory serves me correctly.  Cannot recall the thread. I had never even heard of him then though and now he is on our screens too. I sat watching it with husband and waited for his response (which I knew would come!) as I had not told him that I knew of this man nor what his raining methods were. Husband said he was a 'horrible man', that he would have thrown him out and that he would not have let him near our dogs etc! I then told him what I knew of him. 

A person does not have to be good at training dogs to be a tv dog trainer. Vlad doesn't even have a dazzling smile!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I hate to say it but Brad Pattison is from Calgary, Alberta, I personally think he thinks he's a human psyciatrist....Jill self proclaimed of course


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## mufti (Jan 16, 2010)

Every epsisode of "it's me or the dog" 

It's Me or the Dog - 4oD - Channel 4


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I have watched them all on there Mufti.  There's no live link for series 3 though and though I have emailed Channel 4 and told them, they don't seem too bothered about putting it right.


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## mufti (Jan 16, 2010)

CarolineH said:


> I have watched them all on there Mufti.  There's no live link for series 3 though and though I have emailed Channel 4 and told them, they don't seem too bothered about putting it right.


That's a shame Caroline  perhaps they are waiting for a DVD box set?


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

I despise the guy and have said so in various forums.

Brad Pattison is an abusive jerk. He verbally abuses the people on the show and physically abuses their dogs. 

I've seen episode where he drives his knees into the dog to "teach" them to move out of the way.

Brad Patttison often hits dog on the face in what he calls 'facial corrections"

He hangs dogs to "teach" them to sit.

He's jerked dogs onto the their backs for walking ahead of him

What is really troubling aside from his TV influence is that this loser, 'certifies' other beginning owners in a short weekend course to abuse dogs the Brad Pattison way. 

Brad Pattison is all about physical control of the animal and the use of punishment to make you 'alpha'. 

Among his other gems of wisdom: treats are bribery and treats make dogs aggressive.

He's show showed up on Animal Planet here in NA but there was enough of a backlash that it was taken off. I don't have AP so I don't know if they kept him off. Hopefully if people speak out he won't pollute your TV sets for too long


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## kittysoo (Mar 9, 2008)

hi all

I have just found this program on Sky and set it to record the series. I think l will definately delete it and not bother agin. I have put Its me or the dog on record and have been watching that though its 2008. What a difference to CM. I will be checking out the chanel 4 one shortley.

Thanks all- thats 30 minutes of my life not wasted.Singing:


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Corinthian said:


> I despise the guy and have said so in various forums.
> 
> Brad Pattison is an abusive jerk. He verbally abuses the people on the show and physically abuses their dogs.
> 
> ...


God he sounds vile! I won't be watching - I'm liable to throw things at the TV and shout.


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

Warning! A Dog gets smacked in the face in this.

Dailymotion - Brad Pattison - Hypocrite - a Animals video


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What a grade A ar$ehole.

It mystifies me how the likes of him and Cesar Millan (in his finest "pinning a dog down until it can't breathe" glory) get away with televised cruelty.

Vile, vile little men.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

fun4fido said:


> Warning! A Dog gets smacked in the face in this.
> 
> Dailymotion - Brad Pattison - Hypocrite - a Animals video


OMG 

Why do these dog bullies get so much air time on TV? Why is someone not prosecuting them for animal cruelty? :nonod:


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## jen24 (Apr 19, 2009)

Yikes! why's everyone so against cesar and such like? by the way, I don't have an opinion, that was a genuine question with no witty comeback prepared. It's just that as a new dog owner I see people like the guy the OP was talking about and cesar and then I see Vicki with her huge bag of chicken and sometimes it gets confusing as to which method us new owners are supposed to be using, I mean, cesar is all over geo wild at the moment and vivki is on channel 4 I think but 2 very different views and equaly every forum I browse seems to have hugely spilt opinions. Must admit that our local trainers are very much for the throwing chicken at the dog at every single opportunity and yet I contacted a private one on one trainer out of the area who is much more for the pack leader/silent action/control method. Confusing. I sometimes wonder if it's an atlantic split, ie. CM from South America, Vicki from England ect, but then could it be a Male/Female divide? Males being of alpha nature anyway and women sometimes more towards priase and being nicey nicey, I don't know, but can you see how us novices are a little stuck in the middle?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

* WARNING - 
i just tried to click on/open the Daily-Motion link, and had a POSSIBLE mal-ware pop-up that i could NOT shut down,  it would not let me close the window, or turn off my PC; i had to do a hard shut-down to get rid of it! 

they were saying that i MUST install anti-malware + offered a free SCAN, do not take it up on the offer! these are common worm-schemes or viral infections! 
nasty bugger, ooh, my -  
--- terry

*


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

jen24 said:


> Yikes! why's everyone so against cesar and such like?


Can you not see animal cruelty when it is there, so clearly on the TV?  Do we really have to explain it to you?  Hitting dogs in faces, alpha rolling, yanking on a dogs neck HARD? If not then .

You wonder why we and so many other trainers and animal welfare organisations are against twonks like these influencing suggestable pet owners on the TV so freely? VS may use chicken as a reward, to teach a dog what is asked of it, as many of us do, but after the dog has learned, when the lesson has stuck, we abandon the food rewards and use praise and play instead.  Would you work for nothing? Would you have learned at school without encouragement and reward? Would you have learned better iif held down and forced to learn or being hit in the face, jabbed in the neck etc? :nonod: Think about it.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> * WARNING - *
> _*i just tried to click on/open the Daily-Motion link, and had a POSSIBLE mal-ware pop-up that i could NOT shut down, it would not let me close the window, or turn off my PC; i had to do a hard shut-down to get rid of it! *_
> 
> _*they were saying that i MUST install anti-malware + offered a free SCAN, do not take it up on the offer! these are common worm-schemes or viral infections! *_
> ...


Didn't do it for me? Mind you, I have McAfee and that seems to block a lot of stuff.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It didn't do it for me either. I'd heard about the leash hanging thing wasn't he the guy that hung a puppy off a tree branch to teach it a lesson. I didn't know he smacked them though that poor lab


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Brad Pattison is an Abusive Jerk. - K9Mania.com - Forums By Dog Lovers for Dog Lovers

i am going to try these UTube links instead... 
taking no chances with my precious laptop! , 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

gee, musta scared poor lil Vlad there - 
one UTube video was REMOVED :lol: the second was made PRIVATE. 
awwww izzum scawed? pooooor widdle pumpkin... :lol: 
--- terry


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

No one can criticise the poor babies don't be silly. It would lose them money


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

YouTube - CET is a sham certification


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> * WARNING -
> i just tried to click on/open the Daily-Motion link, and had a POSSIBLE mal-ware pop-up that i could NOT shut down,  it would not let me close the window, or turn off my PC; i had to do a hard shut-down to get rid of it!
> 
> they were saying that i MUST install anti-malware + offered a free SCAN, do not take it up on the offer! these are common worm-schemes or viral infections!
> ...


Dailymotion uses a lot more adverts than youtube and on occasion you get false positives.

I suggest you use firewall and antivirus.


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> Brad Pattison is an Abusive Jerk. - K9Mania.com - Forums By Dog Lovers for Dog Lovers
> 
> i am going to try these UTube links instead...
> taking no chances with my precious laptop! ,
> --- terry


I have double OS on my computers. So if something looks suspect, I use my Linux OS. There is a great Live CD (ie. computer runs off a CD) called Knoppix. It gives you everything you could ask for. browser, chat, movie, mp3...and it's free.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> _ Dailymotion uses a lot more adverts... on occasion you get false positives. _


this was a popuup generated by the site - not my OS or my anti-virus program. 
thats why it scared me so badly, LOL... it was an unk source popup!  
--- t


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## mashabella (Oct 23, 2009)

compared with Brad Pattison...Ceser Millan is actually quite nice......


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

umm... to humans, or dogs?


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## mufti (Jan 16, 2010)

Seriously what makes the like's of Milan and Peterson keep using punishment based methods!?! We are not talking about Joe public here but people who make there living training dog's, Has anyone got a theory as to why they stick to negative training?


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

mufti said:


> Seriously what makes the like's of Milan and Peterson keep using punishment based methods!?! We are not talking about Joe public here but people who make there living training dog's, Has anyone got a theory as to why they stick to negative training?


Good question! 

Hubby and I were discussing that tonight. We came to the conclusion that it is 'ego' that stops a lot of people from admitting that they have not moved with the times and which prevents them from wanting to update their learning. Men as well as women can be guilty of this - indeed, 20 years ago, I myself subscribed to the old fashioned 'dogs are wolves' along with dominance and pack structure etc.  But I kept going on courses, reading new books and getting my eyes opened even wider time and again and eventually I realised that there was no need for all that and that research had brought forth much pleasanter ways to manage dogs.  But a lot of people are reluctant to do this and prefer the security of sticking with what they know. It's the _'Oh well, it's always worked for me'_ thing. I must say though that in the last 15 years or so, I have really enjoyed my dog training, even more than the 15 - 20 years before that! It is so much more fun to be chilled and relaxed and the thrill I get from seeing the pleasure in a dogs face and body language when s/he grasps so easily what I want instead of having to force, coerce, correct or manhandle him/her is worth all the gold in the world. 

It is a shame that Vlad and the Dog Wrestler cannot bring themselves to update their methods and even a greater shame that TV stations are so behind themselves that they cannot see what constitutes animal abuse in training now, in much the same way as thrashing children with belts and switches also constitutes child abuse yet was also acceptable many years ago. 

The trouble is though _*mufti*_, that people nowadays have such busy lives that they yearn for quick fix training, attacking the symptoms rather than finding out what causes their dogs poor behaviour, dealing with that intelligently and thus eliminating the resulting symtoms! Tell such a person to go back to basics and positively reinforce their training patiently and they blanch! They then hang out for the next person to advise them to stick a shock or spray collar on the dog and punish it instead! :nonod:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> _ Apr 29th, 2008, 04:59 PM #59
> Mydogrules - Newbie
> Subj: Brad smacked my dog...twice! _


Understanding your dog with Brad Pattison - Seminars - Page 4 - RedFlagDeals.com Forums 
U will have to scroll down to read it - basically she describes Vlad soliciting an unwanted behavior, then hitting the dog * in the face. * 
2 different behaviors; 2 separate events at the same seminar, which this pet-owner PAID to attend. 
she was not happy...  
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Brad Pattison - Page 2 - I Heart Paws - Pet Forums

OR: Brad Pattison - Page 2 - I Heart Paws - Pet Forums


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i found post #8 eye-opening - 
Understanding your dog with Brad Pattison - Seminars - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

the neighbor dropped 500-smackers on a multi-week training series with Vlad + quit after just 2 classes; 
they found him *too abusive* - quote, un-quote. thats gotta be pretty bad, if they are willing to abandon that much $$ to avoid the classes. :yikes: 
--- terry


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## jen24 (Apr 19, 2009)

CarolineH said:


> Can you not see animal cruelty when it is there, so clearly on the TV?  Do we really have to explain it to you?  Hitting dogs in faces, alpha rolling, yanking on a dogs neck HARD? If not then .
> 
> You wonder why we and so many other trainers and animal welfare organisations are against twonks like these influencing suggestable pet owners on the TV so freely? VS may use chicken as a reward, to teach a dog what is asked of it, as many of us do, but after the dog has learned, when the lesson has stuck, we abandon the food rewards and use praise and play instead.  Would you work for nothing? Would you have learned at school without encouragement and reward? Would you have learned better iif held down and forced to learn or being hit in the face, jabbed in the neck etc? :nonod: Think about it.


christ! only a question, sorry that novices aren't experts like you and sorry but I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog, 'you all' must have watched a different episode to me. Friendly bunch aren't you

no wonder when I look through old threads that half of you are banned! I don't need to be spoken to like a 5 year old thank you very much, I would say I'll go elsewhere for advice but everywhere I go there's patronising 'experts' like you


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Brad Pattison "trainer" - Doberman Talk Forums


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog...


then why was his show condemned by the American Humane Association? 
they are the authority that puts the stamp of approval on TV, films, stage productions, etc, that says *no animals were harmed in the making... * 
see the AHA website - 
type Dog WHisperer into the search box, the Sept 2006 press release pops right up.

before the show was even broadcast, clips were sent to various vet-behaviorists + other well known dog pros; Natl-Geo got plenty of letters, e-mails and phone calls - including from the head of Tufts Univ. Vet-College Behavioral-clinic, who asked them NOT to run this. 
his letter has been quoted in many news-stories since. 
Dog Whisperer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - scroll down to Criticism - 
the link from the AHA website is in the reference citations, too.


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## JessandAstra (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm really glad they don't show this here (at least I haven't seen it).

What an absolute viol creature. I read about Cesar Millan before and this guy sounds like he's in his ilk.

Sad, sad, indeed.

As to why they continue with these negative methods, I think it's either a power trip, or they simply don't want to admit that their methods are detremental.


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> Understanding your dog with Brad Pattison - Seminars - Page 4 - RedFlagDeals.com Forums
> U will have to scroll down to read it - basically she describes Vlad soliciting an unwanted behavior, then hitting the dog * in the face. *
> 2 different behaviors; 2 separate events at the same seminar, which this pet-owner PAID to attend.
> she was not happy...
> --- terry


This is how stupid his supporters are.

For a short time one of his fans posted a few videos of Brad Pattison in an outdoors seminar. In one video we see Pattison striking a dog on the face, for seemingly no reason - at the time the dog was sitting and looking at him. In others the dogs are jerked off the ground, dragged around into trees and another dog gets hit on the face and then he follows it up with a jerk to the leash.

Anyway, this person was genuinely surprised that people were offended by this jerk abusing dogs for no reason. They even tried respoding with justifications with the usual last chance, respect, alpha cr**. Eventually they gave up and just took the video off.

BTW Brad and his fans lovingly calls these hits a '_facial correction_'. His fans find most forums so hostile that they had to set up their own.... I quickly got banned from there.


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## mashabella (Oct 23, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> umm... to humans, or dogs?


not sure lol

what i meant was at least i haven't seen cesar smacking dogs ..not saying he is not cruel tho...just say compared with brad who actually kind in a strange way makes cesar look good


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

mashabella said:


> not sure lol
> 
> what i meant was at least i haven't seen cesar smacking dogs ..not saying he is not cruel tho...just say compared with brad who actually kind in a strange way makes cesar look good


Kind of like how Fred West makes Harold Shipman look good?


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

jen24 said:


> christ! only a question, sorry that novices aren't experts like you and sorry but I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog, 'you all' must have watched a different episode to me. Friendly bunch aren't you
> 
> no wonder when I look through old threads that half of you are banned! I don't need to be spoken to like a 5 year old thank you very much, I would say I'll go elsewhere for advice but everywhere I go there's patronising 'experts' like you


I'm sorry love, but you did ask. What else did you expect us to say? :huh:

You call us experts? No-one is an expert where dogs are concerned IMHO. There is always so much to learn and that's why some of us delve deeper than what we see on the surface. CM and BP are cruel and ignorant but there will always be people who are taken in we know that. But if everyone sat back and said nothing for fear of upsetting those who have been taken in by them, then we may as well wave goodbye to dog training evolving into something kinder and more humane. :001_unsure:

It's not just our opinion either. Welfare in Dog Training


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

jen24 said:


> christ! only a question, sorry that novices aren't experts like you and sorry but I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog, 'you all' must have watched a different episode to me. Friendly bunch aren't you
> 
> no wonder when I look through old threads that half of you are banned! I don't need to be spoken to like a 5 year old thank you very much, I would say I'll go elsewhere for advice but everywhere I go there's patronising 'experts' like you


I don't think it's that people have watched different episodes to you - they just see what isn't always obvious to the casual observer.

TBH a few years ago I probably wouldn't have seen what I see now. Although saying that, a lot of what these "trainers" do IS clearly bullying and the dogs are clearly distressed.

If you delve a bit deeper and learn a bit about dog body language and the signals they give off, it becomes very evident that they are NOT "calm and submissive" or whatever spin the "trainer" is putting on their behaviour.


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## mufti (Jan 16, 2010)

CarolineH said:


> Good question!
> 
> Hubby and I were discussing that tonight. We came to the conclusion that it is 'ego' that stops a lot of people from admitting that they have not moved with the times and which prevents them from wanting to update their learning. Men as well as women can be guilty of this - indeed, 20 years ago, I myself subscribed to the old fashioned 'dogs are wolves' along with dominance and pack structure etc.  But I kept going on courses, reading new books and getting my eyes opened even wider time and again and eventually I realised that there was no need for all that and that research had brought forth much pleasanter ways to manage dogs.  But a lot of people are reluctant to do this and prefer the security of sticking with what they know. It's the _'Oh well, it's always worked for me'_ thing. I must say though that in the last 15 years or so, I have really enjoyed my dog training, even more than the 15 - 20 years before that! It is so much more fun to be chilled and relaxed and the thrill I get from seeing the pleasure in a dogs face and body language when s/he grasps so easily what I want instead of having to force, coerce, correct or manhandle him/her is worth all the gold in the world.
> 
> ...


Thank's Caroline and I concur with your thesis the reluctance to change being ego based. I have seen the same thing in my field (strength training) where people are so attached to a particular system or method that they refuse to see the wood for the tree's or the possibility that there are other way's or even vice versa.

Im so glad I decided to read and research about different training methods for my pup and came upon the work's of positive behaviouralists and this site.Or I would have made the same stupid mistakes using Alpha dominance based "positive" punishments I did with my last Dog 

The sad thing is the more I read the more I can see where I went wrong with my dobie using thing's like check chains and other stupid "positive" punishments and thinking he was trying to "dominate me" :mad2:


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

CarolineH said:


> I'm sorry love, but you did ask. What else did you expect us to say? :huh:
> 
> You call us experts? No-one is an expert where dogs are concerned IMHO. There is always so much to learn and that's why some of us delve deeper than what we see on the surface. CM and BP are cruel and ignorant but there will always be people who are taken in we know that. But if everyone sat back and said nothing for fear of upsetting those who have been taken in by them, then we may as well wave goodbye to dog training evolving into something kinder and more humane. :001_unsure:
> 
> It's not just our opinion either. Welfare in Dog Training


Nice attitude towards someone asking for guidance. Well done.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> re mufti -
> _ ...the more I read the more I can see where I went wrong with my Dobie using... check-chains and other stupid "positive" punishments and thinking he was trying to "dominate me"_


hey, mufti! :--) 
at least U were willing to explore other options! :thumbup: 
don;t beat Urself up over it; when we know better, we do better.  
this is another dog altogether, a new relationship, and there is nothing to stop U from making this dog the heart-dog U;ve always dreamed of having... right?

i am sure that Ur Dobe forgave U, a long time ago... dogs are very good at forgiving.  
the saying has always been that *Every trainer ruins at least one dog - their first. * 
i did not RUIN my first-dog - but boy, are there things i would do ** differently! ** now!  
am i sorry that i did things that were not the best choice? of course! but he was a happy dog, and had a great life - and i did the very best that i knew, then. 
shucks, nowadays my clients dogs get better training + mgmt from me than my first dog did, LOL - partly b/c there are tools available now, that were NOT back then - headcollars, DAP, specific harnesses, etc. 
i LOVE the new gear, new calmatives, new techniques - my only wish would be that my dear dog could be re-born, LOL, and we would have another life together.  that would be _ wonderful! _ 
all my best, 
--- terry


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## mufti (Jan 16, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> hey, mufti! :--)
> at least U were willing to explore other options! :thumbup:
> don;t beat Urself up over it; when we know better, we do better.
> this is another dog altogether, a new relationship, and there is nothing to stop U from making this dog the heart-dog U;ve always dreamed of having... right?
> ...


Thank's Terry,

And yeah I whole heartedly agree, esp with the last paragraph.

Maybe in the next life


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

just in case anyone is feeling re-e-e-eally masochistic... 
here is a source for full episodes to watch on-line (oh, goody ) 
http://www.slice.ca/Shows/EpisodeGuide.aspx?Root_Title_ID=105200

and JUST in case - a tinyURL - 
http://tinyurl.com/yd8753p

have a barf-bag at the ready :lol: and wear Ur rhino-hide - abrasive is a mild term. 
U have been warned... watch at Ur own risk.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

jen24 said:


> christ! only a question, sorry that novices aren't experts like you and sorry but I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog, 'you all' must have watched a different episode to me. Friendly bunch aren't you
> 
> no wonder when I look through old threads that half of you are banned! I don't need to be spoken to like a 5 year old thank you very much, I would say I'll go elsewhere for advice but everywhere I go there's patronising 'experts' like you


Oh c'mon I'm not an expert, never attended a dog training lesson and everything I know about dogs behavior and pets in general is self taught and discovered by looking after my own pets and even I know it's a pointless excercise not to mention down right cruel to treat a dog like this bloody idiot did....hmmm dog don't listen...just smack it in the face....I think NOT...it'd be like smacking one of the kids in the face if they didn't listen....and although tempting in those teenage years :wink: we wouldnt do it would we??
I wonder...if anyone has smacked him in the face for treating their dog in this way on a so called 'training' excercise.....I would part with money to see that before parting with money for his help hehe xx


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

jen24 said:


> Yikes! why's everyone so against cesar and such like? by the way, I don't have an opinion, that was a genuine question with no witty comeback prepared. It's just that as a new dog owner I see people like the guy the OP was talking about and cesar and then I see Vicki with her huge bag of chicken and sometimes it gets confusing as to which method us new owners are supposed to be using, I mean, cesar is all over geo wild at the moment and vivki is on channel 4 I think but 2 very different views and equaly every forum I browse seems to have hugely spilt opinions. Must admit that our local trainers are very much for the throwing chicken at the dog at every single opportunity and yet I contacted a private one on one trainer out of the area who is much more for the pack leader/silent action/control method. Confusing. I sometimes wonder if it's an atlantic split, ie. CM from South America, Vicki from England ect, but then could it be a Male/Female divide? Males being of alpha nature anyway and women sometimes more towards priase and being nicey nicey, I don't know, but can you see how us novices are a little stuck in the middle?


Hi,

I appreciate what you say, and I get asked a similar question by new clients everyday.

Cesar, Brad and others like them still believe in outdated studies done decades ago. Since then there have been countless new studies done by renowned experts in their field. One of the most recent studies was done by Bristol University

"Dominance" Is Old Hat

With dogs it's not about dominance, it's about motivation, if the behaviour is a problem i.e. resource guarding - which is a totally normal behaviour - then change the motivation. Teach the dog that hands approaching means good things, that hands come to give/exchange not take away.

You see Victoria with her huge bag of chicken... other see her using a primary reinforcer (something an animal is born needing for survival i.e. food), as motivation, an incentive. It's not used as a bribe because the dog is only given his reward of chicken after he has performed a specific behaviour, for a job well done.

Positive reinforcement training is widely used with many animals not just dogs, it's used to teach performing killer whales, it's used to teach gorillas in zoos to offer their shoulder for injection when medication is required. It's used to teach bears at zoos to offer their paws for inspection, and yes it's used to teach dogs in movies all those clever tricks they do. I'd certainly like to see Cesar use his Tsss, or "bite" to correct a Bear. 

There is a wealth of information out there in books and on the net with valuable information on how dogs (an all animals, including humans) learn, as well as excellent training books based on positive reinforcement. It's up to owners to educate themselves. What you see on TV should be regarded for what it is, a show, and primarily for entertainment.

At the end of the day it's a question of what type of relationship we want to have with our dogs, a relationship based on conflict, competition, fear, or, a relation based on trust and cooperation.

And more importantly, it's we humans who get to decide this. We can set up a relationship based on conflict, competition, and fear, and end up creating the very problems we were trying to avoid. Or we can educate ourselves, and be mindful of how we behave toward our dogs, and train effectively to build a strong cooperative bond.


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

jen24 said:


> christ! only a question, sorry that novices aren't experts like you and sorry but I've never seen CM be cruel to a dog, 'you all' must have watched a different episode to me. Friendly bunch aren't you
> 
> no wonder when I look through old threads that half of you are banned! I don't need to be spoken to like a 5 year old thank you very much, I would say I'll go elsewhere for advice but everywhere I go there's patronising 'experts' like you


I'm sorry if some of the reactions come across as rather vehement - people on this forum are more used to CM defenders than to genuine novice-looking-for-explanation questions.

Somebody else already gave some links about dominance theory vs positive learning. I think this one is a really good and complete breakdown: *The Dominance Controversy and Cesar Millan*

This trainer writes in her bio, right on the front of her website, that she used to train according to diminance theory (like almost everybody used to) and has since changed because new research opened new ways to train. I think it's pretty brave to be so upfront about your change of heart and techniques.

Personally I think of it like this - I want my animals to do stuff for me because they want to and enjoy it. It should not matter if the animal in question is a 5kg dog or a 600 kg horse (or a killer whale!) I want them to have as much freedom to chose as possible. Just because with some animals I have the physical power to force them, doesn't mean that makes it okay. For an animal to like and respect me, I have to respect it, a beloved creature with its own mind, first.

So I make the good things choices extra rewarding, and the bad things as unattractive as I can. That requires some research and observation about what your animal is getting out of the bad behaviour. A dog that jumps up against you generally wants attention - so you deny it the attention by ignoring it and turning around, and you teach it a positive way to ask for attention, like sitting down.

The stable dog where I board my horse comes pelting toward me and plants her butt on the ground in front of me, saying "HI! Pettings please?" because that gets her what she wants. It's a self-motivated behaviour - and she is free to walk off at any time to go do her stable-dog things. She does not wear a collar and it's never been an option to restrain her in any way, because she's not my dog - how would CM have taught her?


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

I was reading though the Slice comments and I found some very revealing things about this idiot. His meeting with a new client, a woman.

*Brad's Blog - Episode 4043: Dangerous Dalmation*

Season 4 Episode 43

He writes:

First impressions from our meeting? Craig was please take the balloons out from under your arms. And with Tiffany it was Im a Barbie doll. So down went the mousetraps to see how tough or delicate either one was. Or better yet, the common sense factor. Craig I liked working with a lot. He understood the value, importance and urgency. And at the other side of the teeter totter is Tiffany.​
So this jerk Brad Pattison who calls himself a life coach (how many careers does he need?) immediately characterizes this woman as a "Barbie doll"? What kind of frakking (Battlestar fans) life coach is he?

Equally damning is what the subject writes regarding her experience. He post is rather long, so I've taken some of the more revealing snippets. You can read it for yourself, it's about 1/3 down the page.

This is Tiffany, Coma's Mom, yes Brad he is my baby.​Strangely, even though Pattison is always blathering on about dog's not being human or children, he often refers to the owners, specially women, as "Mom"

But at the end when he brought on the girl Coma bit, I wasn't ready for that, and I freaked out. The situation was a lot different then they portrayed it. The only reason Ashley(the girl Coma bit) was brought on the show was to create drama.​This is consistent with what Brad has said in other episodes, complaining that calling him only to teach a dog not to run/chew/etc., is a waste of his time. Too often it seems he is more interested in self promotion than helping the clients.

I felt that was bs and threatened to leave because my contract had been fulfilled at that point. Yes there are contracts! That's when **** hit the fan, and me and Brad said many words I'm sure none of us regret. In any case I wouldn't say me and Brad left on good terms.​'nuff said.

I personally went on the show to get help with Coma's aggression towards other dogs, his escalating aggression towards discipline, and learn some tricks to keep him out of the garbage and off the counter. What I got out of the process was he learnt to stay off of my bed, and couches. No more no less.​Along with his many misconceptions, Pattison is under the impression that letting a dog into a bed/furniture creates vicious animals and not letting them on furniture cures everything.

Brads idea to keep him off the counter and out of the garbage was to kennel him. His aggression to other dogs, Brad said to muzzle him. I have a kennel, but don't use it. Coma is 8 y/o. Dalmatians average age isn't much longer then 10 years. I refuse to kennel him for his remaining years.​Consistent with his belief that physical force and physical control is the only language dogs understand. Though of course this is just management and doesn't address the issue.

Walking him is hell, when Mya [Brad had a child named Mya take this aggressive dog for a walk] walked him, he pulled her around like a rag doll, she walked him for 20 seconds, how can Brad say she showed me up. In a post edit voice over Do I walk him now, no. I take him to the park and throw a ball for him, if I see another dog, i quickly leash him. Same as before.​I've said the same thing about Millan as well : The happy endings are manufactured in the editing room.


Brad, on the first day, let Coma attack the brown dog, (Shantel's dog, Brad's trainer). They didn't show it, but coma latched on and would not let go. That dog had 3 holes, punctures on his mouth.​This idiot has done similar stunts in other shows. In one episode with another D-Agg-D, while they were in the back yard, he flung the door open and his dog ran in. Pattison then beats the dog down and pins him for protecting his territory and for a situation he caused. Pattison has no qualms about putting dogs in danger.

And then he asked me if I even cared about what my dog just did. That's his idea of tough love. Maybe he should have asked me if I cared what he had just let my dog do.​Isn't that rich. He creates a dangerous situation and then blames the owner. What kind of person sets a dog on another dog that is known to be aggressive? You don't even have to be a trainer to know this is wrong.

Production, Would i do this show again? Hell no.
Over all it was approx 30 hours of taping, and of those hours, maybe 6 hours included Brad, and then we went to some of Shantell's training, which Brad was at for another couple hours. Those classes were some of the best interaction we got out of it.​Funny that her best training experience was not with Pattison but someone else. And that Pattison was absent for most of the taping.

Brad calls me barbie doll, i call him balding bitchy old man.​

He says that i was trying to say the right thing, damn right I was, the production weren't sure if they wanted us on the show, because they want dog problems and people problems so that he can be that life coach, and me and Craig didn't have any issues, *so we had to make them up to get on the show.*​
They wanted drama and I wanted results.​Brad Pattison fancies himself a life coach which involves a lot of yelling and put downs.

My advice to Brad would be to grow up too. My "tantrum" was because the show was goin in a direction that i didn't care for, thats not why I went to Brad asking for help. And I called him on it, I told him and that he hadn't done sh!t for Coma or me. And basically the whole show was of waste of time. He can take the brownie points and shove em, because I wish to hell that I didn't finish. To be honest I dont agree with alot of Brads training, one is treats, its controversial. I have always fed Coma treats, while on the show I didn't, now I do. no difference. Hitting your dog, Brad thinks they're tough and you can hit them on the muzzle as hard as you want, well I don't want my dog to wince when I raise my hand. My opinion. Brad knocked on Coma's muzzle as hard as he could to prove that it doesn't hurt him.​In the video that keeps being flagged by the Pattison team, we see Brad hit a dog and it drops to the floor.

Brad's training involves telling you what to do. Which is don't talk to your dog, dont pet, no affection, blah blah blah, umbilical, interruption. and in my case muzzle and kennel too, oh and he also told me to hide in a closet and jump out and scare the dog when he jumps up on the counter too. I expected more one on one time with Brad, but like everyone says he's a busy guy. If he cared he would follow up, not that i would want him too.​
I didn't really think the show made it seem like Coma made much progress. They edited me to say I thought he did, they had Ashley say he did and that was it. And Brad said Coma wanted to make progress.​What this really means is that he is lying to his viewing audience. The people are prompted and prodded to respond in the way they want and not to reflect what has really happened.

I suspect that Millan's show runs similar to this and that snippets are edited to conform to the narrative they've laid out - Trainer Hero and clients grateful rubes.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

I have to say, I haven't seen this person on telly (I have a feeling he will annoy me lots) but from what I've heard and read about him, he sounds an absolute charmer. Really, a lovely bloke


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Interesting and not surprising Corinthian. It is TV after all and bad TV at that. I suppose Vlad Prattison will have his followers but no way am I taken in by that man. He is a bully and no way would I tolerate him near me let alone my dogs. Makes me wonder why people do these programmes though? Have they not watched him before or have they 'watched' but not actually 'seen'?


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

It does baffle me though, how these people get away with such stuff on TV.

The AHA for instance (and I've mentioned this before) are very fussy about animal welfare when it comes to animals being used in films. A look at their website (it's actually very interesting - it explains quite a lot about how various effects are used in films, how the animals are trained etc) shows that even flies and cockroaches have to be treated humanely. So how do the likes of Vlad and the Dog Wrestler get away with it??


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## kelseye (Aug 16, 2009)

americans are always over the top in what thay do oh my god look at the jerry springer show god i would not watch that if some one payed me thousands


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> It does baffle me though, how these people get away with such stuff on TV.
> 
> The AHA for instance (and I've mentioned this before) are very fussy about animal welfare when it comes to animals being used in films. A look at their website (it's actually very interesting - it explains quite a lot about how various effects are used in films, how the animals are trained etc) shows that even flies and cockroaches have to be treated humanely. So how do the likes of Vlad and the Dog Wrestler get away with it??


I wonder if it something to do with them having a business? Other than that, I don't know because it baffles me too. There they are, being condemned by major training, veterinary and welfare organisations yet they are not brought to justice and are free to be on the TV, influencing other people!


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## Papillon (Dec 16, 2009)

Watching it now, my god, he's obnoxious, rude and patronising! So far, we're not seeing how he's supposed to have trained the dog, though.

He's also saying the daughter (30) is invading her parents' privacy and should move out, and she's agreed to do it.

Total waste of my time, didn't learn anything about dogs and their training or behaviour.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

he's actually Canadian, he just moved from Calgary to Kewlona I think it was. He thinks he's a therapist for families and when he fixes them the dog is fixed too. I watch him sometimes but he drives me nuts ....Jill


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## Papillon (Dec 16, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> he's actually Canadian, he just moved from Calgary to Kewlona I think it was. He thinks he's a therapist for families and when he fixes them the dog is fixed too. I watch him sometimes but he drives me nuts ....Jill


Yep, he actually said that once the daughter had sorted out her messy room, the dog would also be sorted out. As if by magic.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I personally think that maybe the dogs are trained away from the cameras by someone else? It seems weird that sometimes it does look as though the dog is looking at someone else off camera for cues? Might be just me but the first programme I watched I was certain the dog was being commanded off camera, just by the way it was looking.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

if Vlad Prattison tried to lay a hand on a dog of mine, or even for that matter on the LEASH of a clients dog that i was handling, 
i think i would bite him... WITHOUT growling first, as a growl is a courtesy 

he does not IMO deserve any such fripperies, :thumbdown: he has heard the angry growls of plenty of other pos-R authorities far-more influential than i, and has ignored them all in his usual high-handed manner. 
obviously all of THEM are *rong*, and he alone is correct...  
yeah, ri-iii-iight, :lol: :001_tt2: Pryor, White, Donaldson, Miller, McConnell, Dunbar, Geller, et al, are utterly mistaken, 
and the Canadian-Life-Coach is the * only * reliable resource... :laugh: 
thats a good one... 

filing my teeth, just in case  
--- terry


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## kittysoo (Mar 9, 2008)

BP is totally unbelievable. How can we get this animal abuser off the TV? Sounds like he is doing more harm than good in fact no good at all!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Saw one of these the other day when working from home.. nice couple and two dogs whose worst crimes seemed to be no lead manners so dragged the guy everywhere and very barky in the house.

Brads fix - do not talk to the dogs at all and fix them too you with cord as an 'umbilical' round the waist (not sure if this was for all the time).

then Brad shouting at the guy, then him sending them to salsa classes then back to the dogs who were now perfectly behaved!! how does not talking to your dog teach them to walk to heel?


I don't like him but must say did see one bit i liked can't remember which show it was but the male owner did something to the dog (kicked it or threw water at it etc) and brad walked in and filled a glass with water and threw it in his face to see how he would like it (he didnt suprisingly)


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> ...the male owner did something to the dog (kicked it or threw water at it etc) and brad walked in and filled a glass with water and threw it in his face to see how he would like it (he didnt suprisingly)...


thats very surprising - 
given that Vlad-the-bad dog-handler often uses serious aversives, water flung in ones face is quite mild by contrast! 
perhaps he was merely upset that the client did something that Himself had not ordered, or did it at what Himself thought was the wrong time? or summat - i cannot believe that flinging-water-in-dogs-face is on the list of Never-Evers as composed by Vlad Prattison.

i have not-yet seen one of his infamous Facial-Corrections, but i find it hard to believe that water-tossed-in-ones-face 
is WORSE than being sharply-struck on the foreface by someones hand... 
the latter sounds considerably more-painful, and is at least equally startling as the former! :nonod:

i hope the Great-DoG has some plans that include pain + emotional-trauma at least equal to what he has inflicted, 
in this life... being only human, i do not have the cosmic patience to wait for karma to catch-up with him in the afterlife.  
one of my many flaws; impatience with a world that often apparently rewards wicked-behavior.

what U dish-out comes back to U; Wiccan belief holds that the bad one does, comes home trebled. 
were i he, that prospect would worry me mightily! 

heres to a day when no dog is forced, shoved, struck, hung, rolled, flooded, etc, on television... 
*for the entertainment -  Not the Education! :mad5:  of the human viewers...* 
--- terry


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> heres to a day when no dog is forced, shoved, struck, hung, rolled, flooded, etc, on television...
> *for the entertainment -  Not the Education! :mad5:  of the human viewers...*
> --- terry


Yep. Here's to a day when people are no longer taken and fooled into thinking that jabs, pokes, shocks, jerks, hanging and pinnings have any place on modern training and rehabilitation.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I saw another one with a great dane might have been the water episode where he kept making it climb over park benches - I have no idea why!


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

EmCHammer said:


> I saw another one with a great dane might have been the water episode where he kept making it climb over park benches - I have no idea why!


Yes I saw that one. I thought that it was rather a dangerous thing to encourage any dog, let alone a Dane, to do as the bench was not solid and had gaps in. Also thought it was all rather pointless!


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## Whatever (Feb 21, 2010)

I thought I would let you know that he did have a show in the US on Animal Planet called 'In the Dog House'. I believe due to a lot of out rage from many people they have cancelled his program. I suppose those of you in the UK could e-mail the company that is sponsoring his show and write your concerns. If enough people do it, I'm sure something would happen.
By the way, he is Canadian and not from the US.


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## welshdoglover (Aug 31, 2009)

I saw about 2 minutes of his show recently and he shut a door so quick I though he'd clipped the dog's nose.

He was bl**dy awful and I wouldn't let him into my house never mind anywhere near my dogs.

Why is he on TV? He's krap,  won't be watching him ever again


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I've watched a few of his programmes but nowhere do I see evidence of him being a good dog trainer as the dogs all seem to be miraculously 'cured' with no instruction or intervention from him? I can only assume that he send the dog away for 'training' whilst he bosses the family into submission?  I cannot stand to watch him anymore though as I find him intensely irrtating and obnoxious. He comes across as a rather angry little man who knows better than everyone else but actually knows naff all.


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## CrazyDawg (Mar 11, 2010)

I clearly enjoy Cesar Millan & praise him for the work he does. Yes not all is work is positive reinforcement - But it works. 

Cesar treats the dogs has pack animals - He treats them has dogs. To many dogs these days are humanized.

Cesar don;t ask the dogs for silly little tricks - He asked the dogs for manners so he becomes pack leader. When dogs work in packs or communicate the pack leader does'nt offer the lower dog chicken & say " now will you listen to me" no of course not, If the lower dog was not responding to the packer leader, the pack leader gives out negative reinforcement. Attacks, Bites, Growls even fight.

Next time you watch a pack of Pet dogs playing, count how many walks in with a pockets full of treats NONE - exactly. To get the pack order going they fight & rumble it out, does'nt always have to be a viscus fight, But body lanuage can be enough.

I love to see the day when dogs start offering each other treats!! haha


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CrazyDawg said:


> I clearly enjoy Cesar Millan & praise him for the work he does. Yes not all (HIS) work is positive reinforcement - But it works.


this thread is NOT about CM/DW - its about *brad prattison* in Canada.

do U have any opinion on *brad prattison*?


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I'd like to know where i can watch him Brad Pattersn online, i cant get te channel he's on and am really interested in watching at the end of my leash because everyone i know speaks highly of him
Clare xx


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> I'd like to know where i can watch him Brad Pattersn online, i cant get te channel he's on and am really interested in watching at the end of my leash because everyone i know speaks highly of him


hey, clare! :--) 
*brad-the-bad-dog-handler* has removed all videos other than those HE has posted from U-Tube, etc; there is nowhere to watch his handling, U have to pay $$ for the opp.

Dailymotion - Brad Pattison Client & Viewer Testimonials - 1 - a Animals video

YouTube - CET is a sham certification

maybe someone in the UK can offer an alternate source?


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Hmmm...after seeing that I don't think I'll bother..I'm disgusted beyond words.....thanks for that Terri you saved me even looking
Clare xx


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## CrazyDawg (Mar 11, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> this thread is NOT about CM/DW - its about *brad prattison* in Canada.
> 
> do U have any opinion on *brad prattison*?


Thanks for reminding me leashedforlife, Maybe move it to a Cesar forum.

But please don't cristise my grammer or spelling.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CrazyDawg said:


> ...Maybe move it to a Cesar forum.


 
new thread for OT-discussion re CM/DW - Pet Forums Community


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## cdawg (Apr 19, 2010)

He is not an animal trainer, he abuses them. I've trained many large animals, including large cats (take them for walks) and I can tell you guys that if he does to dogs what he does to any other animals, he would be dead, because the other animals would have eaten him alive. He dominates dogs because he can, not actually to train dogs. What is the most sickening part is he is profitting from abusing animals.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

/\----------- what s/he said! --------------/\ :thumbup:


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