# Puppy Injection



## hippo745 (Feb 4, 2011)

Just been told by my vet that they wouldnt give my puppy his second injection because they do not have the same brand as his first (think this was vanguard?). Even though we went for his first check up, and nothing was said, and in fact they told us to come back at this time for the injection (dif vet)...........Is this correct, that they can only have the same branded injections? If so this should have been pointed out last week! The vet today wanted benji to start his course again!!!!!!!!!!! said noway, he needs to get out and interact, cant be kept inside for another three weeks!


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

hippo745 said:


> Just been told by my vet that they wouldnt give my puppy his second injection because they do not have the same brand as his first (think this was vanguard?). Even though we went for his first check up, and nothing was said, and in fact they told us to come back at this time for the injection (dif vet)...........Is this correct, that they can only have the same branded injections? If so this should have been pointed out last week! The vet today wanted benji to start his course again!!!!!!!!!!! said noway, he needs to get out and interact, cant be kept inside for another three weeks!


I don't know if this is true (maybe someone else can confirm) but I do know it's always worth calling back up to confirm.

For example one vet told be Flo could be neutered at X age, then when the time came a different vet at the same sugery said he was too young! As my OH went to this appointment without me, I called them back up on the phone to confirm what the heck was going on...and they said nonsense, of course he can be done now!

We use a different vet clinic now...


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## hippo745 (Feb 4, 2011)

Yeh totally confused. first vet was very good too! wont be going back there now though, lost trust in them....still confused that if it is true, it would have been obvious for the first vet, surely???


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

ooh ok so i have flo's vaccination record here...

1st one - Duramune
2nd one - Nobivac
3rd one - Schering-Plough

all different. didn't do him any harm, unless it is somehow the cause of his obsessive tissue stealing?! :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2011)

When I took McKenzie for her second vaccination I was told that the vet that did her first vaccination (while she was still with the breeder) had mixed 2 different vaccines together - apparently a big no-no!  So she ended up having her 1st vaccination again! 

It doesn't seem to have done her any harm but it did delay being able to take her out, and I was not happy!

The two vaccinations she had with my vet were both Canigen.


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## hippo745 (Feb 4, 2011)

so will need to find a vet that uses vanguard?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

hippo745 said:


> Just been told by my vet that they wouldnt give my puppy his second injection because they do not have the same brand as his first (think this was vanguard?). Even though we went for his first check up, and nothing was said, and in fact they told us to come back at this time for the injection (dif vet)...........Is this correct, that they can only have the same branded injections? If so this should have been pointed out last week! The vet today wanted benji to start his course again!!!!!!!!!!! said noway, he needs to get out and interact, cant be kept inside for another three weeks!


Personally I wouldnt be happy to start all over again giving another 2 vacs in a short time, after the one he has already had. There is already data on over vaccinations in the way of yearly boosters, Without bombarding a puppys immature immune system with an extra one above the two normal ones they already have to have. Have you tried other vets in your area, to see if they use the same vaccine and will just do the 2nd one. Personally if it was me, even if I had to pay for the whole thing again but only have the 2nd I would rather do that. If you have no joy locating the same vaccine. Then personally I would ring the manufacturers themselves and ask advice.


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

The trouble is, no-one has researched whether using two different vaccine brands will give adequate immunity. Each manufacturer has researched their own brand so will only recommend the primary course is 2 of the same brand, likewise as no research has been done no vet will guarantee it's ok to do as they don't have the back up of the manufacturer. 
The way I see it your options are - find a vet who uses the same make as the first vaccine, or start the course again. There is some research to say puppies should have 3 primary vaccinations anyway to ensure all puppies are adequately covered as maternally derived antibodies hang around for different periods of time in different pups http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf


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## hippo745 (Feb 4, 2011)

My action plan will be to phone all the local vets to see if they have this brand, really surprised first vet didnt mention it! Surely happens a lot, when the breeder does the first and you do the second in a different area?


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

It does happen an awful lot! Which is why some breeders don't do first vaccs, not to be neglectful just to save a lot of hassle!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

kimdelyse said:


> ooh ok so i have flo's vaccination record here...
> 
> 1st one - Duramune
> 2nd one - Nobivac
> ...


So has your dog had one set of annual boosters? It's puppy shots in quick succession like they are which are meant to be the same brand doesn't matter about puppy shots being different to booster ones.


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> So has your dog had one set of annual boosters? It's puppy shots in quick succession like they are which are meant to be the same brand doesn't matter about puppy shots being different to booster ones.


No these are the puppy vacs.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

kimdelyse said:


> No these are the puppy vacs.


Oh I didn't think anywhere did three puppy vacs?! Not come across that before


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

The following may be of some help. Vaccination Protocols by Jean Dodds DVM
Hopefully the link should work.

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

This is a blatant scheme set up by certain vets. On the Mal forum there is a vet nurese who said her vet says exactly the same, ie: vac given by breeder not the same brand as the one the new vet stocks so has to have all the course from scratch. She said it makes no difference whatsoever and he does it to make more money. As she said it's just the same as you taking Nurofen brand name tablets and a stores own brand of ibuprofen, the ingredients are tha same - just as in vaccines. All vaccines contain the same ingredients, of course they do they're for the same virus's!

Personally i'd change my vet and explain to the new vet the situation. Never had this with my vet when i've bought a new pup, so he is obviously doing exactly what the nurse said - bloody robber! 

Also puts your pup at risk of being over vaccinated!


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

I wouldnt be starting the course again, I think is bad advice and possibly to do with money!

I have never given yearly boosters now for over ten years, and now, no longer do any vaccinations at all. We had two puppies, from seperate litters, both die at 7 1/2 months old exactly the same way, much testing and full post mortems done and they both died as a direct result of the Parvo vax. I broke out into a sweat at the thought of taking my boy as a pup and didnt do it. There is a lot more to this story, but its awfully long, lol!

I do believe in freedom of choice though, and wish people would inform themselves of the pro's and cons of vax before making a choice re their dogs and puppies, instead of blindly following their Vets advice.


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

Malmum said:


> This is a blatant scheme set up by certain vets. On the Mal forum there is a vet nurese who said her vet says exactly the same, ie: vac given by breeder not the same brand as the one the new vet stocks so has to have all the course from scratch. She said it makes no difference whatsoever and he does it to make more money. As she said it's just the same as you taking Nurofen brand name tablets and a stores own brand of ibuprofen, the ingredients are tha same - just as in vaccines. All vaccines contain the same ingredients, of course they do they're for the same virus's!
> 
> Personally i'd change my vet and explain to the new vet the situation. Never had this with my vet when i've bought a new pup, so he is obviously doing exactly what the nurse said - bloody robber!
> 
> Also puts your pup at risk of being over vaccinated!


This was my instinct, just wanting more money. It's awful but I have had first hand experience of a vet trying this on with me, when they wanted him to have two anesthetics within 1 month, saying he was a week early to be neutered at the same time. *a week!*


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I dont think the vets are trying to get money, they are trying to cover themselves. Imagine this, you get a different second vaccination and puppy gets parvo a few weeks later because of breakdown of vaccine. Which drug company takes the blame. Which one pays you compensation and which one does exhaustive tests on that batch to see what has gone wrong. It is common sense really isnt it. I am sure it is nothing to do with the vaccines not working together, just a spin off of our blame culture.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I cannot understand why some vets are such money grabbers, it makes my blood boil, I mean they earn enough out of us as it is and to put our pets at risk for a few extra pounds is a disgrace.
If you make a stand at the vets and let them know that you "know your onoins" so to speak it's surprising how they back down. I had the same with a vet and barf feeding, tried to tell me I was killing Marty when he went in with what they said was obstruction. Told me how dogs die with bone obstruction etc. etc. even though he'd been barf fed for over six years, wasn't bad enough what they said but then tried to tell me how good Hills was for them! When it turned out he had pancreatitis which can be secondary to hypothyroidism (which he has) I was furious and made an official complaint - only to be told by the head vet that they see a lot of obstruction with *small dogs and toys*!! Wtf had that got to do with a big dog and barf?? I told him in no uncertain terms that his vet needed to do some research in barf before trying to make owners feel guilty and that I wouldn't touch Hills with a barge poll anyway. I still go there as I like Hugh but he never says anything about barf, not even with the new pup I have and I make a point of saying how well he's doing on his barf diet now, lol. 

I agree with Ceearot, I have the puppy vacs though and one booster but don't have any more, don't see the need, I mean we don't have chilhood vacs any more than once do we?

Hope you find a vet who'll carry on the course, am sure you will and you'll just have to look around. Let them know you have a nurse vet friend who said you don't need another course as they seem to bow down if they think you're in the know. Good luck. 

Just to add, the only way your pup will have a breakdown in his vaccines is by the vet twaddling about delaying the process - even then I wouldn't be too bothered as he'll get covered soon enough and my vet said only yesterday that at the mo there's a large decrease in parvo etc. countrywide, pretty safe outside at the mo. No cases that he or his collegues have been made aware of.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Iw as always told that you can not use 2 different brands but when we had Willow he had already had his first jab. I took him to my vets for his 2nd as even though his breeders vet said she would give him his 2nd before we took him home even though it was about 2 days early we decided it was not wise to vaccinate then travel 200 miles in the same day.

My vet was on holiday so we saw the locum. The vaccine he used was a different brand to the one Willow had already had. When I asked about this he said it was fine it contained the same stuff it just had a different brand name on the bottle.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I was always under the impression that you could not mix brands on the puppy vacs. This is why I prefered to buy my dogs un vaccinated so I could do it all my self.
Good luck finding a local vet who uses the same brand - if not could you go back to the breeders vet or is it to far away?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Fleur said:


> I was always under the impression that you could not mix brands on the puppy vacs. This is why I prefered to buy my dogs un vaccinated so I could do it all my self.
> Good luck finding a local vet who uses the same brand - if not could you go back to the breeders vet or is it to far away?


I was under the same impression too, Rupert's breeder had all his litter left without any vaccinations so they could have the same ones for both shots. I know with the brand Rupert had, the second shot is given I think 3-5 weeks after the first, not 2 weeks we literally had to wait til he was 13 weeks for his second shot when he got his first one at 9 weeks. I think Nobivac is from 2 weeks after or something but not quite as much time.

I have looked into vaccines a lot with Rupert's issues and got the idea that different brands use differing amounts of the chemical for each disease depending on what the manufacturer decides to use, and that this can affect how long the dog is covered by the vaccine for.

I'm quite sure if you shop around you'd be able to find someone who does that brand though, it is a faff but should be doable or someone should be able to get it in for you


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

Doolally said:


> The trouble is, no-one has researched whether using two different vaccine brands will give adequate immunity. Each manufacturer has researched their own brand so will only recommend the primary course is 2 of the same brand, likewise as no research has been done no vet will guarantee it's ok to do as they don't have the back up of the manufacturer.


Maybe some vets are money grabbers...But the above is the main reason why they won't do it. Each company invests money into testing their own brands, each company does years of research before bringing out a product into things like timing of vaccinations etc. They're not going to spend their money testing if their product followed by another companies product gives the same amount of protection. Sure a vet could give the 2nd vaccination of a different brand off their own back, but if the pup were then to get ill as it wasn't fully covered by vaccinations that vet would not have the manufacturers back up and therefore that vet would be sued and most likely struck off for misconduct.


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## hippo745 (Feb 4, 2011)

great news! managed to find a vets that have it! well they didnt have it but went to the effort to ring around and get it, and he has it saturday! :001_smile:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad you found somewhere, if the new vet managed to locate some and are willing to do it, then makes you wonder why the other one couldnt.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

It really worries me how casual so many vets are about starting afresh on new injections. I ams ure 90% of the time is is money related.

We had inadequate evidence of Millie injections, due to a vet not beign able to release information to us as it was in the previous owners name. (He had given verbal consent to the vets) although the vet was more than happy to reinject the puppy even though he said that he recognised the dog from puppy vaccine visits! 

We never returned to that vets! 

Millie had to have her complete puppy vaccines restarted at 10 months which resulted in a very sickly, poorly tummy and lethargic puppy. I dont believe she needed this but we need to be able to kennel her and its a condition of her insurance that she is vacinated.

Really glad to hear you found a vet who uses the same vaccine


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Mine are all insured but don't have boosters. They're only not covered for conditions related to parvo, leptospirosis etc. that the vaccine's are meant to protect against. Know this to be the case as Argos told me and Flynn had a hip replacement last year which they paid out £5,500 for even though he hasn't had boosters, so don't worry about not being covered by your insurance for other things - as the man from Argos said "we can't force you to vaccinate, not everyone does anyway but you're still covered for all the other conditions" good eh?


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