# Littermates fighting



## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi,

This is my first post in the forum, so I apologise if it's a long one, but I want to get all of the facts in to get some advice.

I have 3 female indoor cats (sisters), all 3 years old, born into the same litter. All neutered at 5 1/2 months old. I've had them since birth. I've never had any aggressive problems with them before, the most they'd do is squeak while play fighting. I've never heard them hiss, not even at my mums dog when we tried to introduce them to him years ago.

On Monday night, after coming home from work, everything was fine, they greeted me at the door as usual, I fed them, gave them some attention and then they went out into their enclosure for some fresh air.
A few hours later I was about to lock everything up ready to go to bed early as it was my birthday the next day. All of a sudden the cats came darting into the house chasing each other upstairs screeching like streetcats fighting. I immediately assumed a stray cat had somehow got into the house, so I chased them upstairs to break it up and checked all over the house for a stray cat. As the lights were off and my cats are black and grey, I couldn't tell who was who while they were fighting. I ran out to check on the enclosure and by that time, my usually dominant but smaller cat was in the corner growling at the other two and one was trying to approach her with her fur all flared up. I shooed them away from her and separated them. I've tried to let them out together again a couple of times but it has ended up in more fights. One of my black cats spotted the dominant grey one upstairs. I noticed the tension and distracted her, but next thing I know, she's darted upstairs and got into another fight. I found my grey cat hiding in an empty box on top of my wardrobe and my third cat hiding on top of the kitchen cabinets refusing to come down. The two black cats seem fine with each other but one of them is a submissive, lower ranking cat. It's just my grey cat and my anxious black cat that have the issue. 

I've had behavioural problems with this particular black cat before, stress and anxiety rather than aggression. Not using the litter tray, having cystitis, the vet said she was a stressed cat with behavioural problems. I never thought it would end up causing tension and aggression as they have always adored each other, cleaning each other and curl up asleep together. She hasn't suffered with cystitis for well over a year.

I live on my own with them in a fairly large house that they have the run of. Their enclosure was built in March this year and they've loved it so far and spend as much time as they can out there together. I have the odd one or two outdoor cats that come into my garden and it's not bothered them before and they don't come close to the enclosure. I'm wondering if because of the nice weather we've been having that is bringing out all of the birds in my trees, may be causing frustration.

I did have a BBQ for my birthday on the weekend, but obviously cleaned up afterwards. The cats stayed in my room the entire night, but I did wonder if the smell from the visitors was still lingering about downstairs and caused some tension. But I 've done this quite a few times before over the years and it's never caused any hassle.

I'm stumped as to what to do. I've been googling resolutions, I've called my vets but they haven't called me back with any advice yet. I've messaged cats protection, etc as I am at the end of my tether. I've had to separate them in the house while I'm in work. I've sprayed Feliway all over the house and am buying some more plug ins. I'm meant to be going away for a long weekend in a few weeks, but am fearful of leaving them now.

My cats mean the world to me and are so affectionate to me and each other, it's heartbreaking watching their close bond be destroyed in an instant. I can't sleep, even though I've separated them at night for now. I hate the sound of them fighting and don't want any of them injured of course. There's no way I'm getting rid of any of them. I'd rather try as many resolutions as possible to get back to normal. I have no idea what could have triggered this between coming home from work and going to bed! 

Has anyone else experienced this or do you please have any advice/suggestions I could try? Any would be really appreciated.

Thanks


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi Catdoll, welcome to Pet Forum.  It is hard to say what has triggered this onset of aggression between the cats, but my immediate thought is that one of them may have an underlying health issue which has made her irritable with one of the others and in turn this has maybe provoked an aggressive response. This can be one reason why previously amicable cats suddenly turn on each other. 

Have you noticed any signs of possible health problems with any of them e.g. being off their food, having a loose stool, or going to the litter tray more than usual and passing small amounts of pee? 

I am interested to see you mention one of the cats suffered from cystitis in the past -- could it have recurred maybe? As a preventative measure are you keeping her fluid intake high by feeding only wet food 
and adding a little water to all her meals, and maybe adding Cystaid or Cystophan to her food? 

Have you checked to see if any of them have tooth problems, which can cause a lot of discomfort and irrititablity?

It may be worth having the vet give them a basic health check.

If it is not a health issue, then my other suggestion would be that a strange cat has come into your garden and perhaps sprayed near, or on, your cats enclosure, in a territorial manner, which one or more of your cats has found very threatening. Being unable to direct their aggression and anger towards the strange cat they have directed it towards each other. 

As to how to resolve the fighting, it is a matter of breaking the cycle of aggressive behaviour and to do this you need keep the protaganists apart at the moment, so tempers have a chance to cool. Fortunately you have a big house, so hopefully it will be possible to keep 2 of the cats upstairs (the 2 that are not fighting) and the other one downstairs, for now. Then swap them over during the day, so they all get some access to the enclosure. I would also feed them in separate rooms (2 in one, 1 on their own i.e.)

Then after a few days, start gradual reintrodctions, with scent swapping, feeding them treats together, distracting them with play toys such as Da Bird, or laser light etc. But the moment there is any sign of aggression separate them again. 

I would also give the 2 anxious cats a course of Zylkene, a supplement that is very good at calming stressed cats. But do not give it to the aggressive cat. Zylkene can be bought on line or from the vets, and the capsules opened and the powder mixed with food. Cats find it palatable. You need to give it for about a month for real benefit.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

It sounds like they have been spooked by something...

I saw a similar case in My Cat from Hell, the tv show of cat whisperer Jackson Galaxy. In this case it wasn't cats fighting, but a cat not daring to go into the garden any more. Jackson talked to the 5 year-old son and discovered the cat had indeed been spooked by a strange sound while in the garden with the boy.

I think something similar happened to your cats. As they were outside together, the two lower-ranked cats seem to have decided the top cat is somehow to blame for their fright, and are now associating her with a scary experience.

I would ahve them checked out by the vet, just to be sure none of them is ill or injured, and ask for zylkene to restore their confidence. Do keep a close eye on them when they are on zylkene, as aggressive cats can get more aggressive when their confidence is built up.

I would also buy one or two feliway diffusers (depending on the size of your house). The diffuser spreads a 'happy, relaxed cat' pheromone, which should reduce the tension.


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## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thank you both for your responses, I didn't expect anyone to help me that quickly  Thanks.

I had a call back from the vet who said he is also stumped as to why they have suddenly changed and is researching some resolutions for me. He thinks one might be trying to become the dominant cat and they may possibly have to fight it out - but I'm not letting them do that!

I have a funny feeling that you are right and they were spooked outside. I noticed a new neighbourhood cat in my garden yesterday, a small Tom cat cleaning himself by my tree. I've tried to block off my garden as much as I can but they still get in. I guess I'll never know exactly what happened to trigger this behaviour, but I will try whatever I can to diffuse the situation and get back to normal. I miss having them all curl up next to me together grooming each other. My mum seems to think I've spoiled them and am not firm enough with them. 

I'm going to scrub the enclosure just in case a cat has sprayed. I didn't think of that.
I'll have to watch that show to see if I can get any ideas from the cat whisperer. I've not heard of it before, thanks.

On the health issue side, they are about to have their annual booster jabs and are each getting a health check at the same time. Hopefully this will rule out any health problems. They usually go to the vets in one large crate, but for the first time ever I'll have to take separate ones. They were eating as normal and no loose stools, etc. They were playing with their toys and licking each other just before the incident on monday. So the fight literally was just like the 'flick of a switch'.

They've been segregated since Monday night and I've been using Feliway to try and calm them down. I've got a feliway plug-in downstairs and one upstairs and use the spray everywhere.

I kept the two black cats together in one half of the house yesterday and the grey one in the other half. However, the submissive black cat was extremely subdued when I got home, jumped at every sound, didn't come to greet me and never left the top of her 6ft cat tree. So I've had to separate all 3 of them in case she was being terrorised by the other black one who has become very agitated and aggressive since Monday. I will room-swap the two conflicting cats as you suggest. I kept the subdued cat upstairs with me last night and after coaxing her out from under the bed, she seemed to return to her normal self within an hour or so, purring and rolling around for a tummy tickle.

After a few days of being separated, I put the two conflicting cats on their harnesses and leads and had help to let them be in the same room without any chasing. We had water bottles ready to tell them off if there was any aggression. There was no growling or hissing, (which I was surprised at) just the troubled one lowering herself to the ground and a lot of staring which I read is a sign of conflict. So we would either distract them or give them a little spray and a firm NO if they didn't stop. It didn't turn out as bad as I thought - there was no fighting or attempts to - so I'm hoping I have a good chance of a reconciliation. I played with and petted them individually and gave them treats if they didn't show signs of aggression towards each other. There's still an intensity between them so I know this will take time.
My grey cat is the adventurous, charismatic leader of the group usually, so it was awful to see her cower in fright, turn her back and try to get away from my black cat. My black cat is usually anxious and picky about who she trusts - she always licks me and loves being petted - but is now rubbing up against me non-stop and also now my family when they pop round, which she never normally does. Is this a territorial sign?

I shall keep on with the gradual reintroductions and pray that all goes well.

Thanks Again


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It sounds as though you are doing exactly the right things to calm the situation and rebuild bridges:thumbsup: I'm pleased to hear things are already a little better. 

It really does seem most probable they had a nasty fright from another cat whilst they were in the enclosure and maybe the little tom cat you saw in the garden recently was the culprit. 

Your black cat will be rubbing around you constantly atm because she is anxious and seeking reassurance. Once she feels secure again I am sure she will do this less often. 

I really would consider giving the anxious cats some Zylkene - it is effective at reducing stress levels, and with it not being a drug is not addictive and has no side effects. 

Would love to hear how things go, if you feel like updating us.


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## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

I've just realised I never posted a progress update after your much appreciated responses.
Well everything is as good as it's going to get. It's not back to normal but it's close! I'd say at least 90%.

I went away for a few weeks over Xmas in 2013 and had my usual professional cat sitter come in, plus a friend to help out on the bank holidays. I got their nails trimmed before I left and was advised to leave them all loose in the house as they used to be.
When I came back, it was bliss! No fighting, hissing, growling. I have no idea what happened or how they sorted it out!

Since then, there have not been any fights like they used to have and it's been over a year now since they resolved it!
Of course I get the occasional hiss when one has had enough of play fighting. My grey cat who was previously being bullied, has only had one or two scratches on her nose since. She gives as good as she gets most of the time now, but sometimes she'll hide away and mope for a little while. Until it's meal time 

I do notice a territorial issue going on. My grey cat and the black cat that was striving for dominance will sniff each other and my grey cat will back off as if she's been slapped in the face. My grey cat will also keep a wide berth from my black bully cat if she needs to walk past. My black cat will also occasionally try to stare down my grey cat, but she now just ignores her. My other black cat who became subdued by the aggression in the house and would hide, now seems to be almost as bossy as the others, which I'm glad of.
I still get a bit wary if those particular two (black bully cat and grey bullied cat) start to play fight and worry it'll end in a real fight, but I really can't complain  I'm not scared to leave them alone anymore and they seem as happy as ever. 

Thank you once again for your responses to me help through a difficult and stressful time


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Many thanks for coming back to update us, we really appreciate it.  

Pleased to hear the situation has been more-or-less resolved, and I hope things continue to improve over time.


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## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

I think I may have spoken too soon!

I was out Thursday night, but my dad was home looking after the cats. He called to say that the same black cat was now attacking the non-confrontational black cat in their enclosure (previously best buddies for 5 years who would curl up together). Now she won't come downstairs because of the other one and hisses at the sight of her.
I've had 18 peaceful months and it always seems to happen in June! I'm wondering if it's because my neighbours have a new tom who is not shy in coming over.
I'm at the end of my tether now. It's my birthday soon and I was having family over to celebrate, but I've had to split my house in half again and I don't want anything upsetting them further, so I'll have to cancel.
My dad said they need to resolve it between themselves, but I think that will make matters worse and I'm not putting my softer cat through that as she is scared of the bully cat and gets depressed when there is confrontation.
I've bought a feliway diffuser and have the spray. I've been rubbing them all with the same scent. Nothing has worked so far.

It lasted 6 months last time. Maybe I need to go away for another 3 weeks and leave them with the cat sitter again!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Two posts with the same text but from two different members?! 

@CatDoll11 
@toniab82

I agree you can't leave the cats to resolve their problems between themselves as It would end up with the bullied cat feeling very anxious and stressed which could have an adverse effect on her health. It is not fair for her to live a life where she is constantly bullied and made to feel miserable.

If your cats had access to the outside world I expect the bossy cat would have chased the victim away by now and the victim would have found herself a new home living with someone else. That is how these things are resolved in the cat world when you leave them to sort things out amongst themselves. But when cats have no access to the outside world (other than an enclosure as yours have) there is nowhere for the bullied cat to go to get away from the bossy cat. So leaving them to sort it out between themselves is a non-starter I'm afraid.

Basically you need to keep the 2 cats separate all the time, which is what you are now doing. It is the only way to long term harmony in the house. If it is not possible to keep them separate then it would be kinder to re-home one of them, perhaps re-home the bossy cat as an 'only' cat. However I know that's easier said than done and black cats are always hard to home anyway, sadly.

I wish you lots of luck.


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## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

@chillminx I'm so sorry about that, I logged in from work using an old email address and I had the same password for both. I didn't realise I had two accounts! I think I must not have realised I'd already signed up to this forum, before actually using it to post  lol but I can't work out how to delete it.

Thank you so much for your response. I've bought them a new cat tree, which I set up tonight and my parents are going to help me do the reintroduction process again. My dad thinks there's already a slight progress made, but from my last experience, I know it's going to take a while. I've even been googling local behaviour specialists! lol They've got at least one person at home with them all day which is a great help and there have been no more fights since that night, so far. I've got a decent sized house with 3 living rooms, so there's plenty of space for them, which has done them well for their 5 years, except these two separate incidents. I would love to have them go outside, but I live on a main road surrounded by large dogs and I've already lost two cats to cars. I couldn't bare anything to happen to these three. Even when I look at houses, I look at how it would suit my cats more than me and if the garden is able to be cat proofed hahaha  They're my babies.
I know, there's no way I could fathom parting with them, they mean the absolute world to me, but if it affects their health and happiness, I'd have to consider it. It would break my heart as I've had them since they were born in my living room. These two were intertwined on my sofa just the other week, fast asleep! So I think my victim cat is in a state of shock as to why her best friend wants to chase her up the stairs after being harmoniously curled up together.
I did read that recently about black cats. I don't understand as they are so beautiful! Mine have vibrant green/yellow eyes and silky fur. Besides the bullying, they all have such wonderful, loving and individual personalities too. One kneads me, one licks me and the other rolls over like a dog for a tummy tickle.
Thanks again  and thanks for the luck! I'll need it 
xxx


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@CatDoll11 - to delete one of your accounts you can send a private message to a moderator requesting they delete it. Here is a link to the list of staff members:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/members/?type=staff

However you can't use the private message facility until you've made 25 posts. So you have a little way to go yet. If you like I could PM a mod on your behalf? I assume it's the newest account you'd prefer to delete (@toniab82 )? Forum rules mean we aren't supposed to have more than one account anyway so it would be a good idea to delete one of yours 

I think it's an excellent idea to bring in a cat behaviourist for advice with your two. They would be able to observe objectively how the cats interact and may notice something you may have missed as you are so close to them.


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## CatDoll11 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks  that would've been ideal, but I think they've already done it for me. I messaged them last night via reporting my own post, as I couldn't find any other way of doing it. I'd only ever posted using this one and prefer to remain consistent. So I didn't realise I had two until I saw the email notification after posting from the wrong one, which confused me. Between work and home logins and passwords, I can't keep up! Lol 

I'll update as soon as I make some progress. Fingers crossed!


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

Just caught up on all of this, sounds like you're doing all you can to keep your babies happy. Please stick around and maybe venture to cat chat to share some pics of your girls


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