# Starving a dog one day a week



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

On another forum, several people are saying they do this, the dog benefits (they fail to mention how) and it's needed because wild dogs would be feast or famine, depending on how successful they were in a hunt, I suppose. Domestic dogs aren't the same as wild dogs, they generally have a steady supply of food. There was mention of detox, which strikes me as an odd thing to say about a domestic dog. Surely if they're fed and thriving, there's no point in withdrawing food one day a week. 

My lot are very active and are kept lean, but I never starve them unless they're sick, perhaps. They would be appalled to be starved for no reason, I'd have a revolution on my hands! When it's teatime, they like to remind me. They need their food to keep up with the amount of energy they expend. 

Thoughts? Do you not feed one day a week or does the idea horrify you? 

PS: just interested in opinions!


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

I don't do it but I don't see it doing any harm, mind you I don't see any benefit either.

Wild dogs tend to gorge on a successful hunt & therefore don't need to eat everyday so I don't see a valid comparison between them & domestic dogs who's food intake is limited by us.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

It is recommended as a lot of carnivores eat, then rest, potentially for a couple of days or more before they catch the next meal. Comes down to the fact that it allows better muscle glycogen storage efficiency and optimises hormones. Simple example for hormones is insulin. By fasting, insulin resistance is supposedly lowered. In effect by fasting you are resetting the digestive process and performing a reset. I have no details or studies at hand as to if it works but we do not do it. Don't think our dogs would be happy if we did.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

We have had a couple of dogs that have starved themselves round about once per week and then carried on eating as if nothing has happened.
They were not unwell in any way, and were very fit dogs who just decided not to eat on occasion.
Probably not related to the 'weekly fasting' thing though


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

We used to starve the family dogs once a week whilst I was growing up, but they were workers. They had their starve day on their day off and used to get a big meal of carcass scraps the night before and then start normally the following morning.

As a kid I never really questioned it, so I have no idea why. But it's not something I have done with my own dogs.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

My dog is not a wolf. He does not have the opportunity to gorge. He would be truly horrified if I tried to starve him for a day. 

I too, would be pretty miffed if I was staved for a day as well!


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I starve myself on Mondays (started out of convenience, but it seems to regulate my feelings of hunger) but the dogs have food available to them all the time. The only time I will starve them is when one has an upset stomach or they have to be crated/in the car for a long time. The dogs, who have working lifestyles, don't seem to mind at all. I haven't found anything to suggest it's good/bad for them so I wouldn't actively starve them for a day a week, but have no issues lifting the bowl for a day if one is feeling sick or we have to travel the next day.

A couple of my dogs actually won't eat for a few days every once in a while. They just seem to lose their appetite for no apparent reason. A few days later and they're eating as normal. I do the same -- just lose my appetite for a couple of days.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

I have to chuckle, if they made it 2 days a week the dog would be doing the 5-2 diet which is all the rage at the minute LOL


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

A lot of people still do it? Our Betta fish get a fast day and are fed peas one day as they are prone to bloat..


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

cinnamontoast said:


> On another forum, several people are saying they do this, the dog benefits (they fail to mention how) and it's needed because wild dogs would be feast or famine, depending on how successful they were in a hunt, I suppose. Domestic dogs aren't the same as wild dogs, they generally have a steady supply of food. There was mention of detox, which strikes me as an odd thing to say about a domestic dog. Surely if they're fed and thriving, there's no point in withdrawing food one day a week.
> 
> My lot are very active and are kept lean, but I never starve them unless they're sick, perhaps. They would be appalled to be starved for no reason, I'd have a revolution on my hands! When it's teatime, they like to remind me. They need their food to keep up with the amount of energy they expend.
> 
> ...


I find the term "starve" ludicrous as of course starvation means that a being has not had access to food for some considerable time and thus they are in distress. So true starvation is of course cruel and unecessary as well as compromising health.

Fasting is entirely different.

The term detox is also a spurious one, there is no such thing, although some people have made a lot of money out of the fashion.

I certainly do not withhold food from my dogs unless they are ill, to do so would be in contravention of the Animal Welfare Act.

Neither do they have set times for their meals as I certainly do not want my dogs telling me when it is meal time, I am not their butler.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Ah detox, I hate that word. People seem to use it to justify the oddest of diets. I think I'll stick to the liver, kidneys, and other organs to do my detoxing for me, and my dogs!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I certainly do not withhold food from my dogs unless they are ill, to do so would be in contravention of the Animal Welfare Act.


So you allow your dog to simply eat at any time? Wait no you don't, like me you have set times. You are not their butler so withhold access to food.

Can you please show me which part of the animal welfare act I would be breaking by fasting a dog for day per week as I cannot see it. Especially when some qualified dog experts actually recommend it? In fact there are scientific studies out there which support the idea of lifetime food restrictions to support, as well as studies in humans. In fact if you look at the animal welfare act feeding a raw diet against the advice of the majority expert opinion could be classified as being against the "feed suitable diet" part of the act. Do you have any studies which show how fasting actually is harmful or is negative? No definitive study as far as I am aware has been made.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Goblin said:


> So you allow your dog to simply eat at any time? Wait no you don't, like me you have set times. You are not their butler so withhold access to food.
> 
> Can you please show me which part of the animal welfare act I would be breaking by fasting a dog for day per week as I cannot see it. Especially when some qualified dog experts actually recommend it? In fact there are scientific studies out there which support the idea of lifetime food restrictions to support, as well as studies in humans. In fact if you look at the animal welfare act feeding a raw diet against the advice of the majority expert opinion could be classified as being against the "feed suitable diet" part of the act. Do you have any studies which show how fasting actually is harmful or is negative? No definitive study as far as I am aware has been made.


Do you see anywhere in my post where I have stated that fasting is actually harmful or negative? Please point that out as I cannot see it. 

For every argument (scientific or otherwise) there is a counter argument and opinions change depending on your personal and professional perspective and of course new discoveries.

The animal welfare act states that a suitable diet must be provided, the interpretation of that will often differ between "experts" including the make up, size and frequency of feeding.

I allow my dogs to feed when it is in their best interests eg leaving a suitable time between meals ane exercise (to minimise the risk of bloat/gdv about which there is plenty of studies)

HTH


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## Geolgrad (Mar 17, 2013)

silvi said:


> We have had a couple of dogs that have starved themselves round about once per week and then carried on eating as if nothing has happened.
> They were not unwell in any way, and were very fit dogs who just decided not to eat on occasion.
> Probably not related to the 'weekly fasting' thing though


Hera does this every week, usually on a weekend. We thought something was wrong with her or she was being fussy but she'll either eat very little for one or two meals then she'll lick her bowl clean next meal. I wouldnt withhold food unless either of them were ill or had a long journey ahead (she gets car sick if eats 2 hours before)


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

It is to do with immune health, metabolism and brain function.. in people at least.

As part of my own diet, I do intermittent fasting and I really feel the benefits. But only because I am on a natural diet - I don't eat any processed foods at all, just meat, fish, veg, fruit and nuts and my fasting often falls into a natural pattern of hunger and non hunger rather then me forcing myself to not eat for a day or whatever.

I don't give my dogs a starve day, but sometimes we will have days where they won't eat until the evening. Certainly does them no harm, although I am not sure if it truly benefits them? They are both very healthy and a good weight, but I can't put this down to the IM and not consider that to simply be from a natural diet and good exercise


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Do people not have fixed times for food? I bet most people do. It suits me to give them breakfast when I get up or when the OH gets in from nights. It suits me to feed them when I get in from the yard, which is usually a similar time every day. I know they will have been out at least a couple of hours previously if not more. My lot don't 'work', but they have structured walks and a routine. 

I don't have children, but I know from plenty of parents that children benefit from having a routine and babies are trained to sleep through and lives are often dictated by feeding times. Dogs are reliant on us for their food and my lot are in a routine like a child, something which suits me, having chosen to have certain times to feed main meals and treats, same as for the horses, they have a routine and expectations, which I have imposed upon them, not the other way round.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Goblin said:


> *It is recommended as a lot of carnivores eat, then rest, potentially for a couple of days or more before they catch the next meal.* Comes down to the fact that it allows better muscle glycogen storage efficiency and optimises hormones. Simple example for hormones is insulin. By fasting, insulin resistance is supposedly lowered. In effect by fasting you are resetting the digestive process and performing a reset. I have no details or studies at hand as to if it works but we do not do it. Don't think our dogs would be happy if we did.


Agree - but as Blackadder says, wild predators tend to gorge themselves because they don't know where or when their next meal is coming. If we let our dogs do that there'd be even more overweight pooches than there are already - and there are plenty.

I'm like you - I don't starve them (unless there is a valid medical reason)


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> I find the term "starve" ludicrous as of course starvation means that a being has not had access to food for some considerable time and thus they are in distress. So true starvation is of course cruel and unecessary as well as compromising health.
> 
> Fasting is entirely different.
> 
> ...


Why do you feel the need to be so aggressive all of the time?


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2015)

I’m a horrid kibble feeder, twice a day, every day, no fast days. 

They get a morning and evening meal, but when that happens just depends on what is happening in our lives. They may eat some days at 6pm other days not until 10pm or later, it just depends on what we’re doing. They seem to adjust no problem. Same with the kids, I tried the strict schedule thing when they were infants and that lasted about oh... 5 minutes. It’s just not me. To each their own. 

As for fasting, I personally don’t see the need, but again, to each their own. Breez is one to vomit bile if her stomach gets too empty so there’s that. Plus I use food in training and training happens pretty much daily, so that makes fasting counter productive as well. 
Mine are good eaters, never ones to miss a meal, iron gut stomachs. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it....


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I'm a horrid kibble feeder, twice a day, every day, no fast days.
> 
> They get a morning and evening meal, but when that happens just depends on what is happening in our lives. They may eat some days at 6pm other days not until 10pm or later, it just depends on what we're doing. They seem to adjust no problem. Same with the kids, I tried the strict schedule thing when they were infants and that lasted about oh... 5 minutes. It's just not me. To each their own.
> 
> ...


I always feel you have to be careful with danes, too, because of their tendency to bloat. I honestly don't know if a fast day could cause a problem, but I wouldn't risk it unnecessarily


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2015)

lostbear said:


> I always feel you have to be careful with danes, too, because of their tendency to bloat. I honestly don't know if a fast day could cause a problem, but I wouldn't risk it unnecessarily


The more I read and research about bloat, the more I think it's related to stress/nerves, than what, how, when the dog eats. I've known too many raw-fed danes who's owners are super strict about rest times before and after meals who have bloated. 
I'm careful about after meal activity, but I'm not insane about it (forced crate rest for 2 hours or some such). 
I think we can get a little crazy about things like bloat, but in the end, it seems like some dogs are going to bloat no matter what you do, and you just have to be prepared.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> The more I read and research about bloat, the more I think it's related to stress/nerves, than what, how, when the dog eats. I've known too many raw-fed danes who's owners are super strict about rest times before and after meals who have bloated.
> I'm careful about after meal activity, but I'm not insane about it (forced crate rest for 2 hours or some such).
> I think we can get a little crazy about things like bloat, but in the end, it seems like some dogs are going to bloat no matter what you do, and you just have to be prepared.


My cousin has just lost a Cairn to bloat....................................


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2015)

Meezey said:


> My cousin has just lost a Cairn to bloat....................................


Oh I'm sorry 
And yeah, definitely not a breed you would think of with bloat.
In danes it's the #1 killer


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Meezey said:


> My cousin has just lost a Cairn to bloat....................................


How awful! And will have been totally unexpected in that breed.

A friend has had a - in fact TWO lucky escapes. He has two braccos, and was walking them off leash when the older one (aged 10) just collapsed - he thought it had been bitten by an adder, or pulled a ligament or something, but fortunately there was another family there and the dad recognised what it was - bloat! The dad helped Brian to carry George (the dog) to his car and bundle the other in, and he went straight to the vet's surgery where they operated immediately. He was told because of the age of the dog that he would be unlikely to pull through, but he did. Then had another attack at home three weeks later (same dog) Surgery was then complicated by fresh scar tissue, but the dog has so far survived (three weeks since its last episode)

As he said though, without the other family's help he would not have been able to get his dog into the car - it was just too heavy for one person to lift, and as it was in pain, was snapping at everyone. It is my great fear, as I understand that it can strike at any time, completely out of the blue. Brian said that he had had no warning - dog hadn't been off colour or anything.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

GDV is a big concern of mine when it comes to my Dobe, but definitely wouldn't expect it in one of the Terriers.  Must've been such a shock to your cousin Meezey. Horrible thing to happen.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2015)

lostbear said:


> How awful! And will have been totally unexpected in that breed.
> 
> A friend has had a - in fact TWO lucky escapes. He has two braccos, and was walking them off leash when the older one (aged 10) just collapsed - he thought it had been bitten by an adder, or pulled a ligament or something, but fortunately there was another family there and the dad recognised what it was - bloat! The dad helped Brian to carry George (the dog) to his car and bundle the other in, and he went straight to the vet's surgery where they operated immediately. He was told because of the age of the dog that he would be unlikely to pull through, but he did. Then had another attack at home three weeks later (same dog) Surgery was then complicated by fresh scar tissue, but the dog has so far survived (three weeks since its last episode)
> 
> As he said though, without the other family's help he would not have been able to get his dog into the car - it was just too heavy for one person to lift, and as it was in pain, was snapping at everyone. It is my great fear, as I understand that it can strike at any time, completely out of the blue. Brian said that he had had no warning - dog hadn't been off colour or anything.


I wonder why the vet didn't tack the stomach during the first bloat surgery.
Here it is pretty much routine to do a stomach tack during bloat surgery. Some owners even do it dying spay/neuter surgery as a safety measure.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I think that's the worse thing for her, because none of us would have expected it and he didn't show the " classic" signs of it, but the time they got him in it was 50 /50  Bless her it was her first, and I know will be her last dog, even her Mum & Dad didn't have family pets, utter shock for everyone, because not a breed you expect it it.

I'm very wary of it in Rottweilers, I lost my old boy Tsar in the middle of the night and when we had the autopsy the vet wasn't sure it it was bloat or his heart, he want peacefully so hope it was his heart


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I wonder why the vet didn't tack the stomach during the first bloat surgery.
> Here it is pretty much routine to do a stomach tack during bloat surgery. Some owners even do it dying spay/neuter surgery as a safety measure.


Honestly don't know. I have little awareness of the technicalities involved. It does worry me with Loki though, because he is much bigger than the braces, and it would be a hell of a job to get him into the car if he wasn't able to help himself at all. DD carries her phone with her always when walking him (good practice in any case) and our "fire escape" plan is if necessary, ring the vet to prepare them and go for the dog.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I think that's the worse thing for her, because none of us would have expected it and he didn't show the " classic" signs of it, but the time they got him in it was 50 /50  Bless her it was her first, and I know will be her last dog, even her Mum & Dad didn't have family pets, utter shock for everyone, because not a breed you expect it it.
> 
> I'm very wary of it in Rottweilers, I lost my old boy Tsar in the middle of the night and when we had the autopsy the vet wasn't sure it it was bloat or his heart, he want peacefully so hope it was his heart


Sorry to "like" such a sad post, but I wanted to acknowledge it.

Miss the "thank you"


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

On another forum I frequent it was quite common among a few raw feeders to 'fast' their dogs for a day after a particular big feast the night before. Can't comment any further than that as I don't know any additional info, but I thought it was pretty extreme IMO.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Sorry to "like" such a sad post, but I wanted to acknowledge it.
> 
> Miss the "thank you"


Thank you x


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

One I thing I must say, Rossi has guarding tendencies and when I rescued him was incredibly food aggressive (resource guarding). 

If he gets hungry, he will scavenge for bags - an old habit of his, and aggressively guard them. 

So while it might do no harm physiologically - it can be harmful to certain dogs who have experienced issues in the past. 

On days they skip breakfast, he gets bone broth to avoid triggering any behaviour issues.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

sezeelson said:


> One I thing I must say, Rossi has guarding tendencies and when I rescued him was incredibly food aggressive (resource guarding).
> 
> If he gets hungry, he will scavenge for bags - an old habit of his, and aggressively guard them.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to apologise for the see-sawing like/unlike that will come up on your alert - I clicked "like" - sneezed and accidentally "unliked" it and had to "like" again.

I swear I have not got multiple personalities - I am just not very ept.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I couldn't imagine not feeding mine for a whole day and really cannot see any benefit. 

My boy is very regimented. I swear he has an inbuilt timer. Meal times are set and he certainly lets you know when it's coming up to that time! He whines, pokes you and then starts sitting on top of you until he gets his meal! 

Sorry to hear about the little Cairn


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Goblin said:


> It is recommended as a lot of carnivores eat, then rest, potentially for a couple of days or more before they catch the next meal. Comes down to the fact that it allows better muscle glycogen storage efficiency and optimises hormones. Simple example for hormones is insulin. By fasting, insulin resistance is supposedly lowered. In effect by fasting you are resetting the digestive process and performing a reset. I have no details or studies at hand as to if it works but we do not do it. Don't think our dogs would be happy if we did.


I'm not saying this is wrong, it's something I don't understand. If food is withheld then the body will metabolise fat reserves to provide energy &, if need be, protein too.
Blood sugar levels would therefore be at a similar level as if the dog had been fed... it would just lose a little "weight"?
Surely insulin levels would meet demand?


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> Do people not have fixed times for food?


I don't. Axel gets his food when it gets defrosted. It can be in the morning, or in the afternoon, or just before going to bed. Sometimes it caan be morning and evening, because I had some leftovers from the previous night but not enough for his whole portion.
I don't starve my dog. But sometimes he does have a fast day. That is normally after he gets a double portion the night before.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

good gravy!! mine are at me at 8 am and 6pm like clockwork
if they even have to wait 30 mins they start mithering
starve them for a day?
if the rspca came here theyd tell the 'officer' i starved them *all* the time


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

No I would not starve my domesticated pet for a day because it's a domesticated pet and doesn't need to be fed like a wild animal.

If I owned a wild animal however, then yes, I would feed it like it would be fed in the wild.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Meezey said:


> A lot of people still do it? Our Betta fish get a fast day and *are fed peas one day as they are prone to bloat.*.


Sorry, I don't get the connection with feeding peas for preventing bloat, surely a good diet and common sense should be enough.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Sorry, I don't get the connection with feeding peas for preventing bloat, surely a good diet and common sense should be enough.


It's for fish the pea is to clear them as they are prone to bloat they get a tiny bit they are fed a good diet the pea acts as a laxative as they are carnivorous.. Betta fish do you keep them yourself?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

There are still no definitive answers with bloat and/or GDV but feeding, stress and familial tendencies are all factors. Any breed can suffer from this but it is more common in the deep chested breeds. Having had two dogs with GDV despite mealtimes not being a factor, I would also remove the potential stress that could be caused by unecessary fasting.


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## Balto (Aug 4, 2015)

Interestings thoughts. I personally only fast mine if they are ill, 12-24 hrs just to clear the system so to speak.


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Interesting, I had no idea people did this with their dogs. I know some dogs who 'self-regulate' their eating & will not eat for a while of their own accord, BUT I think food should always be offered. 
Mine love their routine feeds & know when its meal time before I do!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

It was all the rage when I was young but not something I would ever consider doing. I can't really see the point.



smokeybear said:


> I find the term "starve" ludicrous as of course starvation means that a being has not had access to food for some considerable time and thus they are in distress. So true starvation is of course cruel and unecessary as well as compromising health.
> 
> Fasting is entirely different.
> 
> ...


This seems to be one of your more daft posts SB. Starve or fast mean exactly the same thing when used in this context as you well know. And you would hardly be contravening the Animal Welfare Act if you were routinely starving your dog one day a week as a planned feeding regime.

My dogs are pretty much fed at the same time of day. It suits me to feed them when we come back in after the initial morning work.. I feed them then have my breakfast. They are fed a second time usually around 5 when I have finished outside - variable depending on what I am doing. Last night it was around 8, it has been as early as 4.


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