# How to spot a dodgy kitten buyer?



## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

What questions do you ask?

I had a woman come today to see my kittens and she wants one of my boys to show, she came with her mum who breeds devon rex, this lady gave me £100 deposit and i wrote a reciept, and when she got home she emailed me and said id put the wrong price on the reciept, i dont know why she didnt bring this up at my house, iv said i will send her deposit back because i have a bad feeling about her and when she wrote her address and contact number she has only given a mobile number which i found strange?
She seemed more interested on the champions on the pedigree than she did with the kitten.
I just have a bad gut feeling, how do you all decide who to let your kittens go to?

Lesley x


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

when you say , she said you had put the wrong price on the receipt what did you mean, that the deposit price was wrong or total price, she should have checked her receipt at your house, i agree and to be honest she should have been all over the kitten not the paperwork, i think and i would say always go with your gut feeling over anyone!!!


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Does she want the kitten as a show neuter or for show/breed? Sounds to me as if she is studying the pedigree with a view to breeding from your kitten in the future.

I would go by gut instinct.
Personally if something doesn't feel right after meeting a buyer then I wouldn't sell.


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi, 

Archiebaby this woman said i told her a price in email and then when i put the price on the reciept she said it was more, but that is the price for all the kittens, she looked at the reciept then folded it and put it in her bag and handed over the cash, so she should have said then!

Her mum was dropping lots of names of people from shows, and i dont show. But she was more interested in the amount of champs on the pedigree! 

Angeli she said show/neuter, the mating certificate stipulates no boys go on the active register, which im happy with anyway.

But i think they have intentions on using him with the devons


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

you would have never stopped worrying if you let him go to her, gut instincts and 1st impressions are a good thing when judging people.

x


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

can you not forward the original email over to her to prove you were right anyway ? but i would really go with my gut feeling and if you are not sure then return her deposit, i am sure there are loads of genuine people out there for your little kitten


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

can i ask just out of nosiness , hou much are kittens now?


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Mmmm I would say they are more interested in the potential breeding lines there is on the pedigree. If she is buying a show/neuter then I would have expected her to be very hands on with the kitten as she is planning to show him ??!!!

How much attention did they pay to the kitten? Regardless of what they want the kitten for it is a bad sign.

Definitely something not right there


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

They are around £350-400

I want to return her deposit but she has'nt replied to my email, so i think she is going to leave things for a few days and hope she will still get him? her mobile is unavaliable.


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Have you googled her address to see if it exists


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

Go with your instincts or you'll be forever worrying!


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I would always insist on a landline number and their address for contacting them and never a mobile only.
Buyers will usually provide both.

Then you can check their details on 192.com.


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

StrangeI would go with your gut feelings about this person!
If your in any doubt you should say NO to her.
I'm not sure were you stand if you have taken a deposit though
you might have to sell her the kitten if money has exchanged hands 
I was reading something about this a few weeks ago and the same thing happened to another breeder she took a deposit and tried to back out of the sale  the buyer took the breeder to court and had to go through with the sale


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## starlight (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi, you must feel really awful about this  

Like everyones saying, i'd go with your gut feeling and don't let her have your boy, he deserves better than her!!!

Good luck 

xx


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

I have'nt googled her address, i thought she had put a landline number but when i went to call her it was just a mobile, i am uaually a good judge of character, i will try and find more out tomorow.

this is the little fella


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Aw he is gorgeous!! yeh see what she comes back with! good luck x


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

may said:


> StrangeI would go with your gut feelings about this person!
> If your in any doubt you should say NO to her.
> I'm not sure were you stand if you have taken a deposit though
> you might have to sell her the kitten if money has exchanged hands
> I was reading something about this a few weeks ago and the same thing happened to another breeder she took a deposit and tried to back out of the sale  the buyer took the breeder to court and had to go through with the sale


There is no way she would get my kitten if she tried to take me to court, she would have to find the kitten first


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

may said:


> StrangeI would go with your gut feelings about this person!
> If your in any doubt you should say NO to her.
> I'm not sure were you stand if you have taken a deposit though
> you might have to sell her the kitten if money has exchanged hands
> I was reading something about this a few weeks ago and the same thing happened to another breeder she took a deposit and tried to back out of the sale  the buyer took the breeder to court and had to go through with the sale


Another silly thing to make a breeders life more awkward


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I would definitely go with your gut instinct. The couple of times in the beginning that I didn't, I regretted it. Its a rule I live by now, but at least I have peace of mind. 

If she wants the kitten for show, and that could have been the reason that she was so interested in the number of chs on the ped, some people think that that guarantees that the kitten will also be a show winner, then tell her the kitten has developed some kind of w/h fault - popped a sturnum or you have noticed a tail pip or something.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I won't repeat what everyone else has said but have learnt never to take deposits but to reassure those whom I feel positive about that my word is as good as theirs. If buyers are genuine about wanting a kitten, they will provide honest information about themselves and a breeder would do likewise. 

I am not entirely certain that you can be MADE to go through with this sale. 

It seems as if she never really checked the kitten over thoroughly and presumed that its lineage/paperwork alone would guarantee his future show career. Main thing is, you still have him. There are plenty of good, genuine buyers out there. I hope you get this sorted.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

I would also go on instinct. Dont let her have one of your precious little kittens.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Meezers said:


> What questions do you ask?
> 
> I had a woman come today to see my kittens and she wants one of my boys to show, she came with her mum who breeds devon rex, this lady gave me £100 deposit and i wrote a reciept, and when she got home she emailed me and said id put the wrong price on the reciept, i dont know why she didnt bring this up at my house, iv said i will send her deposit back because i have a bad feeling about her and when she wrote her address and contact number she has only given a mobile number which i found strange?
> She seemed more interested on the champions on the pedigree than she did with the kitten.
> ...


Lesley-if you have badgut feeling-don't let this woman have your lad,any potential kitten family if they want show/stud will know what they want and explain to you their intentions and the why's etc,any pet only family will naturally sell themselves to you and as your the breeder-no-one will get offended with any questions/concerns you voice..if this lady is still in the running go and visit her home,check out her website and the lines she uses etcYour kitten familys will want to spoil their new furbaby and be able and willing to do that whether for show/stud or pet-and as well as you vetting them-you do have your instincts and when their not good it's either a no-go or they have to prove you wrong


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I would tell them that the kitten came down with a virus and has had to be checked over by your vet and you don't feel comfortable selling him while ill and you are just going to keep him now as a show neuter yourself.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Lesley, go by your instinct the same as the others have said. After what happened and the lies I was told by someone who had kittens off my last litter, i'm even more wary who I sell mine too. I'd rather keep a kitten a bit longer and find it the right home, than sell it to a life of misery or be returned to be replaced by more kittens. I had someone want a stud boy off me, I asked about because I did'nt recognise the name and was told don't sell her a kitten. Then someone else rang wanting him and let slip who gave them my number, the same lady, needless to say I told them no too. He will stay here if need be, even if it takes 6 months to find the right home, then so be it. Our babies are too precious
Send her deposit back by recorded delivery or something and say you've changed your mind about the kitten.*


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi Everyone

Well i did'nt get a reply by email last night so i called her mobile this morning, and i told her i would consider letting him go cheaper and was asking questions about any other cats she has, and she said shes got another show neuter caramel oriental? i asked her if she had any intentions on breeding with my boy and she said no, so i said ok well i will let him go cheaper providing that i keep the pink slip until i have a letter from the vet saying he has been neutered, and she soon changed her mind and wants to back out and has already lined up another litter to go and look at!! Strange woman! im sure her intentions was'nt genuine!

Lesley x


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I knew it ... something smelt distinctly fishy ... You're well out of that particular "deal". 

Deposits given are not necessarily returnable ... since she was the one who backed out  (depending on what you agreed at the beginning). "thumbs up sign"

Best purrs


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*So, you were right to be wary. As she has backed out I'd keep the deposit, lol. Some people are full of bull....makes so cross I'm sure a better home will come along for him soon*


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Meezers said:


> i asked her if she had any intentions on breeding with my boy and she said no, so i said ok well i will let him go cheaper providing that i keep the pink slip until i have a letter from the vet saying he has been neutered


Well now, to be fair, if she's going to show him she does need the pink slip!

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi,

I have heard about the pink slip being witheld in the past too. If someone wants to show a kitten then surely they have to have the kitten transferred in their name. Im all for a breeder protecting their interests just wondered how this is dealt with if a kitten is sold to a show home?

I think this is where early neutering plays its part? But thats another subject.

Jo


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi Liz, yes i know she does but i know for definate she is lieing i found this advert on uk classifieds with the same mobile number she gave me! so her story was totally false, i knew there was something wrong.

Here is the ad, siamese breeders look out for her!

devon rex kittens


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*Go with your gut feelings, if your not happy!! and give the depo back, nothing to be ashamed about, iv done it myself, and im glad i did, as after i found out the person had lied *


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

First of all I thought that witholding the pink slip was normal practice for kittens sold to be neutered (either pet or show). It is amoung Maine Coon breeders.

Most pet owners really can't be bothered with pink slips - meaningless to them.

Secondly, I understand that there is a new vetinary technique that the owner of the kitten can neuter before handing over to new owner if there are any concerns.

Find it here: Maine Coon Kittens in the UK scroll down to bottom of page.

For those too lazy  :

Early Age Neutering

More and more informed vets in the UK are now undertaking early age neutering & many breeders include this service. We have now located a vet to do this and it is possible to collect your kitten from us already spayed/neutered. Early age neutering is supported by The Brtish Small Animal Veterinary Association, The Feline Advisory Bureau (UK), The European Society of Feline Medicine, both of The American and Canadian Veterinary Medical Associations and The Winn Feline Foundation. For more information on this please see the below links and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Feline Companions
W. Marvin Mackie, DVM
Dr Susan Little
Spay USA

Feline Advisory Bureau
The International Bengal Society
NCBR


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Meezers said:


> Hi Liz, yes i know she does but i know for definate she is lieing i found this advert on uk classifieds with the same mobile number she gave me! so her story was totally false, i knew there was something wrong.
> 
> Here is the ad, siamese breeders look out for her!
> 
> devon rex kittens


Most the breeders i know dont pass on the pink slip until a letter from the vet saying the cat has been neutered, and it stops people like this from trying to con you


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I have been given all my pink slips for both my boys who were/are to be neutered. This is because I wanted to show them and so changed them into my name.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I also withhold pink slip til after neutering/spaying. As this normally happens when the kitten is 6 months old, this will not be too late if they still want to show as a kitten. 

Well, it seems that Meezer was right in her instincts anyhow.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*I also with hold pink transfer slips untill iv had it in writing from thier vets unless they are sold as potential queen or stud *


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I personally think if you have the right kitten buyer you should trust them with the slip. My boy is 4 months and I wanted to get him on the show bench as soon as I could. The Breeder didn't have the slip back but filled a blue one in for me so I could send it to the GCCF office to get things moving quicker. As it happens I was then able to show him.


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I personally think if you have the right kitten buyer you should trust them with the slip. My boy is 4 months and I wanted to get him on the show bench as soon as I could. The Breeder didn't have the slip back but filled a blue one in for me so I could send it to the GCCF office to get things moving quicker. As it happens I was then able to show him.


Yes thats fine if the person is honest from the start, my last litter went to good homes with theire pink slips, 3 boys all neutered now im still in touch with the lady and they are all fine, one of the girls now spade no probs there, but one of the girls still doesnt have her pink slip because i said i would send it on recorded delivery when it comes back from the gccf which i did and for some reason she lied about her last name and it ended up coming back to me, i contacted her again recently and she informed me that her girl is calling and that she wants to breed her, i told her she is on the inactive register and was sold to her as a pet, and she said ok i will breed without papers and there is nothing i can do about it, not everyone is honest unfortunately, i trusted her when she said she wanted her for a pet


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*OMG, what a B***H. You know what there are some dam good liars out there, who'll stop at nothing to get what they want!! *


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

that's terrible and just proves that people do not care about having the pink slip if you keep it back from them. if they want to breed then they will, slip or not, active or not. the only way this can be stopped is to early neuter.

personally i would tell kitten buyers that your pet kittens all come neutered already. this will put alot of people off straight away. the genuine people will understand why you say this.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Yes Vicki, sadly, this is true - sometimes the only way is early neutering. Maybe we should hassle our vets about this. 

Then you must add the cost onto the price of each kitten - I guess in the long run it would help new owners since they would be spare their vets bill and the cost of driving the kitten there and back. The breeder would then have the peace of mind that comes from knowing that the baby will really be a pet or perhaps a show kitty but not be abused (oops ) / used for breeding.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

If someone I was getting a kitten from had had the kitten already neutered it would be a bonus, save me the job and of course yes add the fee to the kitten price. Also you may have to wait for the kitten to be 16 weeks when they leave home but that;s no problem either.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

I suspect that a minority of potential pedigree pet owners out there know about GCCF/TICA etc. 

They want a pedigree, are not concerned about showing, and don't care about pink slips. 

There are an awful lot of adverts for pedigree (select breed here) kittens on the web and if you are a breeder who does not care bet its lucrative too!

Haven't we had a couple of threads recently about kittens bought from 'breeders' who don't seem that reputable?

I thought part of the deal with kittens sold as pets was that it might not be desirable to breed from them.

As a pet owner I would be more than happy for the neutering to be done before I got the cat. Far less hassle and also the breeder is an expert and already has a well established relationship with his/her vet.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Meezers said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Well i did'nt get a reply by email last night so i called her mobile this morning, and i told her i would consider letting him go cheaper and was asking questions about any other cats she has, and she said shes got another show neuter caramel oriental? i asked her if she had any intentions on breeding with my boy and she said no, so i said ok well i will let him go cheaper providing that i keep the pink slip until i have a letter from the vet saying he has been neutered, and she soon changed her mind and wants to back out and has already lined up another litter to go and look at!! Strange woman! im sure her intentions was'nt genuine!
> 
> Lesley x


Hmmm that rings bells, does her surname begin with a C, because there aren't many ori caramels being shown. If its who I am thinking of, the cat was sold as a show neuter but the owner pestered the breeder to put him on the active, but she stood her ground and said no. Strangely haven't seen him shown since.


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Hmmm that rings bells, does her surname begin with a C, because there aren't many ori caramels being shown. If its who I am thinking of, the cat was sold as a show neuter but the owner pestered the breeder to put him on the active, but she stood her ground and said no. Strangely haven't seen him shown since.


Yes she is JC, and came with her mum posing to be the breeder of the devons!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Definitely sounds like the same person. Shame you don't know what other litter she is interested in, you could have given the breeder a heads up.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Not quite the same but I got my two cats from the Cat Protection. We had to have a home visit and when we got the kittens we had to sign a contract to say that we would get them both neutered/ spayed.

And after they had the ops we had to get the vet to stamp and sign a piece of paying to say that he had done it. The paper was then sent to cats protection as proof. If Cats Protection never received this piece of paper within 6 months then they would come and collect the kittens.

Perhaps it is an idea worth considering for you folks? At least you will be able to keep a tight reign on future kitten purchasers?


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Definitely sounds like the same person. Shame you don't know what other litter she is interested in, you could have given the breeder a heads up.


I know, i wish i knew! this woman is such a liar and will tell you anything to get a kitten. I pity the poor people she goes too next.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Thankyou muchly for the heads up Meezers and Saikou


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Meezers said:


> Hi Liz, yes i know she does but i know for definate she is lieing i found this advert on uk classifieds with the same mobile number she gave me! so her story was totally false, i knew there was something wrong.
> 
> Here is the ad, siamese breeders look out for her!
> 
> devon rex kittens


Please excuse me if I'm being dense, but what is there in that advert that suggests she was lying about wanting a show neuter?

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Janee said:


> I thought part of the deal with kittens sold as pets was that it might not be desirable to breed from them.


Certainly that is an obvious use of the non-active register, I have used it that way myself when there was some fault I thought might be genetic. However it's clear to me that the overwhelming majority of kittens sold on the non-active register are registered that way because the breeder either does not want anyone else breeding from her kittens or because she wants to be sure about any potential breeders first or simply because she wants more money to sell a kittens for breeding. In other words it's less about how good the cat is and more about who is going to be doing the breeding.

Lzi


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

When I got Bailey and Cleo, I wasn't given the pink slip till I could provide proof of neutering.

I'm glad you didn't let this lady have your little boy. She was obviously lying to you and trying to convince you she wanted him for just show. Why would she suddenly back out when you mention keeping the slip till proof of neutering.

There are so many time wasters/untrustworthy people out there... ya have to be very careful.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

The advert web link was not a breeder website - it was one of the many, many kitten adverts that appear on ebay or google searches.

Incidently I was talking today to an owner of a Bengal cat who got it from what she described as a cattery. A breeder who kept her quenns and kittens in outdoor cages!

She subsequently bought a Bengal kitten and Norwegian Forest Cat kitten from a breeder who socialised her kittens amongst children, dogs and in the home and she said there was a remarkable difference in temprement. I found that really interesting.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Oooo, I would'nt dream of having my Queens & kittens in outside pens Mine are all socialised amongst our other cats, the dog and the kids. *


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Sadly sometimes i think the people that buy/aqquire cats/kittens from places they feel are not as they should be only enable and encourage these kind of people to do what they do.But i understand that a lot of people follow their heart and emotions as opposed to not,and doing this is easier said than done


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

OK I'm still being dense perhaps, but this lady came with her Mum who claims to breed Devons, and you found an ad of hers for Devons, with the daughter's mobile number. I'm afraid I really don't see the problem with a mother and daughter working together, it's hardly unknown in the cat fancy. What exactly is it that makes you say she is lying???

Liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

lizward said:


> OK I'm still being dense perhaps, but this lady came with her Mum who claims to breed Devons, and you found an ad of hers for Devons, with the daughter's mobile number. I'm afraid I really don't see the problem with a mother and daughter working together, it's hardly unknown in the cat fancy. What exactly is it that makes you say she is lying???
> 
> Liz


Don't think it was the fact that is was mum and daughter working together Liz,it was a combination of various things that she felt didn't add upIf you read the previous posts properly you will see


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Don't think it was the fact that is was mum and daughter working together Liz,it was a combination of various things that she felt didn't add upIf you read the previous posts properly you will see


She lied about her other cat caramel oriental being a show neuter and he is not neutered, she is selling si rex, and the fact she only gives out a mobile is strange, and she wanted the cat right up until i said i would keep the pink slip until he is neutered. When she was here she was more interested in the amount of champions on the pedigree than she was with fussing the kitten, and also her silence now she has been caught out is a bit strange!! i offered to deliver the cat when he was ready and she was'nt keen on the idea. 
When people email me i always give my landline number and offer for them to call me for a chat, which most of the time people do, but this woman did'nt and was'nt very chatty when she was here, so maybe worried she would say something she shouldnt.

Anyway this little boy has now been reserved, a man and his kids came yesterday and fell in love with him and he was purring and happy round the kids and curled up and went to sleep on one of theire laps so that to me is a good sign! and he is willing to let me hang on to the papers until he is neutered!


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

Also if they are her mums kittens, why not give a proper contact name and not coolcats! and surely one of them must have a landline number?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok I admit I have little knowledge of either Devons or Siamese / Orientals, and also of course you are quite right to be concerned first about the kitten's welfare. I wouldn't have wanted to sell a kitten to someone who was more interested in the pedigree than the kitten either. And I'm glad you've now found a buyer you are happy with. With all that said I still don't understand.



Meezers said:


> She lied about her other cat caramel oriental being a show neuter and he is not neutered


You know that, presumably, from a show catalogue or from someone with personal knowledge of this person?



> she is selling si rex


 yes but surely you can't breed an oriental to a devon and register the kittens as si-rex in the first generation? And if you wanted a first generation cross wouldn't you start with Siamese instead so that all the kittens would carry siamese points? And in any case she could not register the kittens so why would she go about it that way anyway if she's involved in breeding GCCF registered kittens which is what the ad says?



> and the fact she only gives out a mobile is strange


Not strange at all with youngsters these days, there are plenty who only have mobiles.



> and she wanted the cat right up until i said i would keep the pink slip until he is neutered.


 if she is genuinely wanting a show neuter then I find this entirely understandable. I wouldn't want to buy a kitten for show and then find I couldn't show it for three months!

Now one could well ask why someone with an interest in breeding devons wants a show neuter at all, let alone of a different breed, but there could be a reason - living in a flat perhaps and limited to one cat, devons being her mother's breed and daughter fancying something different whilst being interested in the show scene. That doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. Neither does giving just an identity on an ad - most people on this forum have just an identity after all, some people are very nervous about making personal details available over the internet.

Liz


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

lizward said:


> Ok I admit I have little knowledge of either Devons or Siamese / Orientals, and also of course you are quite right to be concerned first about the kitten's welfare. I wouldn't have wanted to sell a kitten to someone who was more interested in the pedigree than the kitten either. And I'm glad you've now found a buyer you are happy with. With all that said I still don't understand.
> 
> You know that, presumably, from a show catalogue or from someone with personal knowledge of this person?
> 
> ...


We are just going to have to agree to disagree i think, im not going to keep going over it. The kitten has found a nice home now and thats all i wanted for him, I had my reasons for not selling to her and the majority ive spoken to including the stud owner agree.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I am not saying you should have let her have him, I have already said that. That is not the issue.

Calling someone a liar on a public forum, without any proof, and giving out identifying information about them, when they have no means of knowing what is being said, is very bad form and may even be breaking the ISP's terms of service. It could easily be interpreted as libelllous.

Liz


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