# How to keep a Springer close to me?



## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

Hello.
Great forum by the way.
I'm a proud owner on a 6.5 month old English Springer.
He's coming on really well but one thing is slightly worrying my and I may have lost control a little over the last few months.
I want Bolt to stay close to me when we're out and about off the lead but he'll often run off a full 100m before turning round and coming back wagging his tail.
We do play games and his general recall is good (80% with a ball etc). I've tried tastier treats, higher pitch voice, hiding and generally i've tried to make him feel that there's more fun to be had with me but, he just wants to run in a straight line and go - and when he's that far gone i'm not in full control of him.
I'd love to have a springer that you can see on many youtube videos of a patiently waiting dog who's ready to sweep in and around 30m of your location.
Any suggestions please? :confused1:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Do you think it has something to do with his name.. :lol:

Now is he following a scent when he decides to gallop off


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I can't add anything useful but you aren't alone! My golden was perfect until after he was neutered, wont come back for anything now 

Hopefully he will settle down after his teenage months and you can get some decent advice in the meantime


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## lizzy23 (Dec 29, 2010)

Just 100m:lol::lol: they're not renowned for trotting along at your side, its not what they were bred to do, and the dogs you see on you tube are probably FTCH that have had many hours of work put in to them or are out working where they will only sweep about 30m in front.

I would look at two options, whistle train him, and then you do have control at distance or teach him to wait which is what i did with one of mine as a youngster


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## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

OK great, so all can be rectified to some extent?
I was under the impression that after 6 months of age it's very hard to train / re-train a dog


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## lizzy23 (Dec 29, 2010)

strid said:


> OK great, so all can be rectified to some extent?
> I was under the impression that after 6 months of age it's very hard to train / re-train a dog


Sorry thats Tosh, i have 5 springers 2 from pups the rest from rescue at beteen 1 and 2 years old, they are more than capable of learning at any age, i recently rehomed a 9 year old cocker that has just started flyball and agility in his new home


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Nooo definitely not. My godmum and hubby got theirs at 10 months and it took them until she was 3 years old to have a decent recall 

They use her as a gundog and she did get there, she's just a clever and cheeky little thing 

I can't offer much advice as like I say my boys recall is still not good


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Springers just want to go, go, go Molly our youngest stays by me a lot of the time she is completely focused on the ball for most of the time, the boys want to be out here doing what springers do and i like that tbh, as long as they have goos recall which all of mine have then its not really a problem so recall is the first thing to master then you can let them go and still have the control.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I know you feel. My cocker spaniel lost his recall at 1 year old, and he's now 2 years old and he never regained it enough to let him off lead safely. He's now permantely on a flexi lead or long line. I would just say try your best to get his recall right, because it's much more fun to walk your dog off lead than it is on lead.  Maybe think about training classes (especially outdoor ones)?


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## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

ImageShack Album - 2 images

Thanks guys


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

The old adage 'If you want company on a walk, don't get a Springer Spaniel' springs to mind here.

I had a Springer when I was younger and unfortunately this is the nature of the breed and IMO it is unkind to expect them to behave otherwise when let of the lead.

Enjoy the dog you have, life is never dull with a Springer


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

metaldog said:


> The old adage 'If you want company on a walk, don't get a Springer Spaniel' springs to mind here.
> 
> I had a Springer when I was younger and unfortunately this is the nature of the breed and IMO it is unkind to expect them to behave otherwise when let of the lead.
> 
> Enjoy the dog you have, life is never dull with a Springer


Oh how true that is, wonderfull dogs they are. I always say you never take a springer out and wonder, are they really enjoying this.


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## lizzy23 (Dec 29, 2010)

well people always smile at my lot crashing through the woods at 300 miles an hour with their tails going to ten to the dozen:thumbup::thumbup:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

yep i can see it now mine are the same everything is done at top speed even my 10yr old


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## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm with you all here. For me, watching a springer out off the lead is truly fun, they, in my opinion, know how to play more than any other breed.
I don't want to suppress what are obvious traits of a springer or any thing its just......
As I say, he's really good - he'll sit, wait, lye, give a paw, roll over and fetch most of the time (not bad for 6.5 months )- i suppose i should just persevere and learn from the like of yourselves that it's pretty much normal behaviour once on a scent.
But, I obviously would be devastated if something bad happened if he went too far, across another field etc etc.

Thanks anyway


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Regardless of breed, a dog that is let off leash must have a reliable recall otherwise IMO he should not be off leash as he is a danger to himself and others.

Springers are easily motivated dogs and thats what makes them highly highly trainable. But often times we leave them to get access to their motivators without us and we have a dog that we follow on a walk rather than who walks with us.

Your puppy, regardless of breed, is a teenager and suddenly the sun no longer shines out of you  like it did when he was a puppy. That means that you have to step it up - no excuses 

Because puppies, regardless of breed, tend to be compulsive greeters so we think we are doing a fine job at recall training even though we are doing very little. 
Often times however, we are doing something - training puppy not to recall because every time they do we end their fun, put them on leash, take them away from interesting smells, or worse tell them off etc.

Here is a blog article I wrote on recall training: Rover! Rover? ROVER!!! - 100% rock solid reliable recalls | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

If you are saying things like he knows this, this and this and then qualify it by saying 'most of the time' or 'with a ball' and so training is nowhere nearly done. Lots more work to be done and loads more training fun to be had - best of luck


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## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

^
Thanks Tripod - great reading:thumbup:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

tripod said:


> Regardless of breed, a dog that is let off leash must have a reliable recall otherwise IMO he should not be off leash as he is a danger to himself and others.
> 
> Springers are easily motivated dogs and thats what makes them highly highly trainable. But often times we leave them to get access to their motivators without us and we have a dog that we follow on a walk rather than who walks with us.
> 
> ...


Yes its very true what you have said here, ive had 3 springers have 2 now and even harvey at 10yrs old needs reminding we have done these reminders all their life even tho recall on them all is excellent, never have we called them back and leashed them, call him back,treat or play ball all our have been highly motivated by the ball molly i would say is ball or bottle obsessive.

The thing about having a springer off lead is control not just recall, but control at a distance, my husband is better at this than me, or the dogs are better for my husband than me. Many times we are walking in fields down lanes and the dogs are far enough away that any dangers would be a danger because they are too far away for us to get them and leash them, horses appear i will never ever allow my dogs to run, walk freely around horses the same had happened with tractors, so we or he trained them so when this happens "WAIT" is all thats needed "HERE" pat on the leg and they run over, not wanting to leash them for fear of this making them think "no way that wil be me on the lead" a hand full of treats or a tennis ball held down by the side of the left leg is all thats needed, continuous reminders, stop if they stray ahead command them back then carry on walking a gentle "here", "here" all the time tapping the leg and every 4/5 steps maybe giving one of the treats.

OP just remember its not all about having 100% recall its about a reasonable measure of control at a distance that could save your dogs life, i know we have made it sound like we all think they should be having fun and racing about but i think i know where you were originally coming from, when need be you wanted to know how to walk by your side.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

This might help or it may not. I wrote it for a Toller owner but the principals work just the same. Just work on a 30yrd radius.

Herding breeds have the ability to not look at you but still follow commands which can sometimes throw you a bit as you call its name and it seems to pay no attention to you. It is but the name isn't backed up with anything to go on. If you were to call my name whilst I was for example watching a tiger, I wouldn't take my eyes off of it but you'd still have my attention.
"Hutch?"
"What?"
That "what?" is asking you to explain what you want me to do next.
"Hutch?"
"What?"
"Back away slowly"
"OK"
Name followed by instruction gets a response. The name without any request means I have to read your mind in order to find out what you want me to do. If I called your name, then called your name again, then called your name again, then called you name again you would know I was talking to you but how long would it be until you switched off and just got on with something? Not long I guess and that is what happens with dogs. You call their name, you then assume (because you are human and we are masters of vocals) by raising your voice you will get your point across. Still nothing. So you whistle, you use a whole array of phrases that to us means "come here" but to a dog is just a load of strange noises.

Drag lines - these are fine but if you cant catch the dog then you cant catch the end of the line either.
Chasing the dog/walking the dog down/going to the dog to put the lead on - the dog sees it as a game of chase regardless of what we may call it.
You say the dog will recall occasionally to the whistle - never set your dog up to fail. In other words if you are unsure if the dog will return to you then don't use the command you are wanting to use or the dog just learns that they can ignore that as there is no consequence and it holds no meaning, it is just your the owner making some noise.
What you have to think about is getting the dog's attention. When you call it and the dog actually looks at you to see what you are doing that is the time to react. I called my dog and as soon as he looked up to see what I wanted I turned away from him, bent over, clapped my hands, called "Come" (in a friendly voice) and started moving away from him. When he got to me he was rewarded with a rag toy, a ball, a stroke or a game of chase. After a few weeks he started to associate the word "Come" as an initiation to a game I wanted to play and one he could join in with.
I also make a point of saying "Come" when he has picked up a frisbee or a ball after I have thrown it. It becomes a natural response to bring it back to you after a while and once that happens you can put your recall command on it too.
A mistake I made at the beginning and after floundering my way around various methods and wondering why he wouldn't come it was a combination of fundamental errors we make as humans when communicating our dogs.
If I was wanting to get your attention I would say something similar to "Hey Hutch!", "Hutch?", "Hi Hutch", "Hey", "Hi", "Pardon me" and a whole other list of words from our rich and varied language that we rely so heavily on for communication that we don't even consider the various combinations as we all understand what they mean. But that doesn't matter because our most standard response would be "What?". We are asking what we are being called for. We can't read the other person's mind to provide the action and result that is required without further communication verbal or gestured. When your dog looks at you when you call their name this is what they are saying. "Dillon?" + dog looks up = "What?". From this look it is now down to us to state what we want the dog to do. They are giving us their attention all be it for a split second or longer but in this time we have to explain to them what we want them to do.
Now think about all the different noises you make when you call your dog over and they don't come - "Dog. Come!", "Come dog", "Here dog", "To me dog!", "Come on dog!", "This way dog" and on and on and even throw a whistle in for good measure. 
Now imagine you are being taught a task be a foreign language speaker and they are asking you to do something but every time they do the word or sound changes. You can hear your name every so often so you know it is directed at you but the sound before or after is a different word almost every time. What would you do? After a while you'd just ignore them. If you could see they were getting frustrated and shouting and then they started coming towards you would you stand there to see what they were going to do? No. You'd keep a distance until you could work out what it was that they wanted and you could please them.
Pick a command word for recall and stick to it. Force yourself to think about that word every time you call your dog to you during training or when out and about and pretty soon it will become second nature. Write it down and stick it on the fridge or back of the toilet door if you have to.
The main thing when teaching recall is your body. If you think of the scenario where your dog has run off, no doubt you will be facing the dog as you crumble inside because you have to try and coax the dog back. So there you are standing facing the dog and shouting a whole manner of things. The dog doesnt care too much for the noises coming from your mouth because it hasn't learned yet what to associate them with and they are all different anyway so it is confused. It now focuses on your body and tries to work out from your body what you want from it. Visualise your body language from your dog's point of view. Everything about your body language says "That way" which is where the dog is anyway so you must want something else from it, but what? Do you get the picture now? Your dog has no idea about the noise you are making and your whole body language says "stay where you are" or "carry on whilst I keep an eye on you".
What we then do as humans is a really stupid thing. We think "Well if you aren't coming to me then I'll come to you!" and we set off walking towards the dog still shouting what we want but what the dog doesn't understand. Our body language and actions are screaming to the dog "WE ARE GOING THE WAY YOU ARE!" so if we use the same command - "Come" - when walking towards the dog the dog associates the word with the way they are going which is away from you or playing with another dog etc but not what we want it to associate the command with. If I was to say to you from a distance "Hutch, flobbersocks!" and start walking towards you what will you do? You'd more than likely stay where you were and wait for me to get to you. If I then got angry that you weren't doing what I wanted and the frustration came through in my voice and my tense posture - "FLOBBERSOCKS!" - you would start to back away. Now I'd be running after you to get you to come my way at which point you would want to keep a distance between us and would be running away from me.
Try this in the house or garden - Stand side on to your dog, bend at the waste and in a cheery voice call its name to get its attention, once it looks at you say "Come!" in a really cheery manner as you would to a small child and SMILE. I can almost guarantee you the dog will come over within five seconds of you doing so. If not then pat your legs - a winner every time. 
As soon as the dog shifts its body weight to towards you then say the command word you want to use. When the dog gets to you then it is big praise and then you release the dog again with "OK" or whatever release command you use.
Try this 4 times a day for about 10mins. Once you have the dog coming over every single time then you can eliminate required actions starting with the leg pats if they are required, then the bending from the waste, then the direct eye contact etc until you can face the dog and call it, face away from the dog and call it or be in another room or the dog inside the house and you outside the house but you must use the same command word every single time without fail. When you first start and the dog comes to you then have a play about with a tug toy or a little game of chase or throw a ball etc - you want the dog to associate coming to you with the start of something fun and rewarding for them.
After a week you can try this when out on walks, sure you aren't going to get it 100% of the time due the huge amounts of attractions that are better than coming back to you to be put on a lead so use the command when the dog is either walking towards you or you have its full attention. No point putting in all the hard work in the garden to then give the command when the dog is tearing off across the field to see another dog as you are giving the command to be ignored. Better to run over in silence and get your dog away than waste your breath and confuse your dog. 
So what about training the commands then?
First of all there are two games we are going to play, and your kids are going to be involved as they should be with any training and they will love this. They both involve chasing and with the herding instinct this is really going to play to your dog's skills and strengths but it also works well with any breed.
In your garden, living room, hallway, park, woodland, wherever, you are going to get the dog to "Sit".
Now you are going to get your "inner child" going. Say "Go" really enthusiastically and set off running to your best ability. Don't run in a straight line its boring for you (might as well go jogging) and it's boring for the dog as they will just get alongside you. Run around in circles, figures of eight, jump, twist, turn and try to outsmart the imaginary raging bull that is chasing you. 
Your dog will be going barmy by now as you have suddenly become amazingly interesting and their dying to herd you. When you are prepared put the anchors on and stops dead at the same time shout "STOP!" in a short sharp voice. Do not move a muscle. If the dog is still moving about dont worry they will soon come to a standstill as they will wonder what the chuff is going on. As soon as they stop say "Good dog!" but do not move.
Now prime that inner child again and say "GO!" as enthusiastically as you can again and set off running in mad lines. Again when you are ready shout "STOP!" Wait until the dog has stopped and then off you go again.
Now when you have your breath back grab the lead or put the lead on the dog and walk. As you walk say "STOP!" and stop dead again. The dog should stop. If not then play the game again the next day but do not worry if it doesn't pick it up straight away.
Keep practicing this game until you can watch your dog go off for an innocent sniff and when you say "STOP!" the dog stops. Don't forget to release the dog form the stop though. It needs to sniff.
You can play this game every so often just to refresh the dog in the meaning of the command or for your own fitness.
Now comes the recall part.
When you have the dog on a long lead DO NOT DROP THE BIT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HOLD!!!!
The game is as follows:
You have an objective and your dog has an objective.
Your objective is to not let the dog get to the end of the lead so the whole length is out in front of you.
Your dog's objective is to catch you.
Walk your dog along on the long lead with the excess trailing on the ground and the handle in your hand. Let your dog wander about etc and let the loose lead feed gently through your spare hand - this acts as a gentle break if your dog takes flight and when you gently squeeze it buffers the speed to a stop without the dog getting whiplash. Dont forget to use "STOP!" as soon as the flighty dog comes to a standstill though.
Right, whilst the dog is aimlessly wandering about use your new "STOP!" command to stop the casual dog reaching the end of the lead - 1 point to you. If the dog reaches the end of the lead then you lose all of your points.
When the dog has stopped call it's name followed by the word you want to use for the recall - Here, come, to me, etc and at the same time turn sideways to your dog, bend at the hips and slap your legs. As soon as your dog looks at you to see what the mentalist is up to this time set off running away from the dog so you have another game of chase. What can be more rewarding to a herding breed than a game of chase when it comes back to you? They live for that game!!
When the dog gets to you - I bet you can't make 10yrds - give it praise using the same command as you stroke it.
Then release the dog and off you go on your casual walk again.
When the dog is off doing its own thing then "STOP!", repeat the actions and the command and when it looks off you run again.
After a few weeks of this not only will you have a decent "STOP!" but you wont have to use the "STOP!" as much to prevent losing your points as the dog will accustomed to a game of chase on the recall command "I can either sniff this or go have a game I love!" No contest.
Gradually over a couple of months you drop the game of chase for the recall until the command is set in stone.
Hope that helps and I hope you win.
P.S - if you lose your points to the dog then you will have to go back to the "STOP!" & "GO!" game or just go back to the "STOP!" on the long leach before the recall.


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## strid (Dec 30, 2010)

^
Thanks Hutch - superb advice. :thumbup:


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