# Behaviorist for Troubled Border Collie in Wilts - Barbara Sykes?



## spacekadet (Jan 2, 2011)

Hi there,

I've reached a wall with my troubled border collie and seek the advice of a pro. I'm considering a consultation w/ Barbara Skyes. Anyone have experience? 

Alternatively, can anyone recommend a behaviorist in the Wiltshire / Gloucester area (I'm near Cirencester).

Cheers,

Monica


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Personally although Barbara Sykes is obviously a very experienced collie owner, she is far too into dominance for my liking. Having read her book I discussed it with my friend, an APDT behaviourist who agreed that she was too into dominance and would not recommend her to those experiencing problems with their collies for that reason. Border Collies are highly sensitive dogs and so the encouragement of dominance interpretations of their behaviour is a bad move IMO. Not only is it an incorrect "translation" of their behaviour but also encourages the owner to feel that they need to constantly overcontrolling and dominating their dogs. Dominance based approaches also come hand in hand with the use of aversives far too often unfortunately.

What exactly are the problems you are experiencing with your boy?

Angela Stockdale is in Minehead I believe so not too far?
Angela Stockdale, Dog Aggression Specialist - Welcome

I would also highly recommend  Kay Lawrence, who is a very experienced Border Collie handler and owner and not that far from you (just under an hour?). Might be worth contacting her?
Welcome to Learning About Dogs

Best of luck


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

I live about 2mins from her and have spent hours talking to her and helping out walking the rescues.

She definitely knows her stuff and I would recommend ringing her and asking her for assistance as she will gladly help you out.

Her books are based on pack stuff but the way she is with the dogs is so gentle and understanding. 

You don't win sheep dog trials with a dog that is scared of you, doesn't understand you and doesn't want to work for you because of how it is treated.

Nothing to lose in giving her a call.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

go with Lemmsy's suggestions, excellent behaviour practitioners and trustworthy too :thumbsup:


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## spacekadet (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks all for your feedback. lemmsy, you are the second person to recommend Kay - I emailed her, but unfortunately she doesn't have room in her courses until June / July and didn't mention private consultations (thought I'll write back to inquire). Barbara's email to me, however, was very thorough, encouraging, and specific to Jay. Not sure who's the better trainer, but Barbara certainly sold herself better.

As for Jay's specific problems, they largely seem to be due to hyperactivity. Here's how I put it to Barbara and Kay:

I have a 22mo old border collie named Jay who I adopted about 5 months ago from a family in Cardiff who could no longer care for him. He comes with bit of baggage - terrible around other dogs, lots of barking at home at the slightest sound or movement from outside (and if someone comes to the door, he goes absolutely mental with barking and whining), terrible on the lead, chases anything that moves, runs away and doesn't always come when he's called (he's very manipulative), bit the postman (though is normally very good with other people). I've been taking him to obedience lessons but being around other dogs is so stressful for him that he doesn't seem to get much out of it (he does, however, like obedience training at home with no distractions). 

There is something about any new and unusual stimulus that sets him over the edge. I don't know if he's scared, hyper, aggressive, or what. I'm not to this so really need a pro's help here.

Thanks for all your feedback and suggestions - it's hugely helpful. When my dog is finally socialised enough to go to the pub (a dream!), I'll buy you all a round. 

Monica


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Oh great that you heard from both of them. :thumbup: My honest opinion- if it were my dog I would without doubt take him to Kay Lawrence over Barbara Sykes. Although I'll admit I've never met Barbara Sykes, having read her book I was as I said before, concerned about the insistence of pack theory in it. Border Collies (and indeed all breeds but this is particularly important when understanding BCs) are so much more complex than that IMO.
I have however personally met and trained my dog with Kay Lawrence. Myself and some agility friends were lucky enough to get spaces to go on her Focus Training for Border Collies day last month at Learning About Dogs and she is really fantastic. She clearly understands these dogs so well and I learnt so much from the day. Several "OMG why didn't I think of that before?!?!" moments :lol:
If you get the opportunity to do one-to-ones with her I would highly recommend it.

I've annotated your post below with just a few thoughts I had, in case it's of any help 


> As for Jay's specific problems, they largely seem to be due to hyperactivity. Here's how I put it to Barbara and Kay:
> 
> I have a 22mo old border collie named Jay who I adopted about 5 months ago _(-probably worth bearing this is mind still. BCs are incredibly sensitive, especially to change. Continue to keep stressors as low or non-existant as pos to help him relax and continue to find his feet?-)_ from a family in Cardiff who could no longer care for him. He comes with bit of baggage - terrible around other dogs _(in what way? Again assuming it has become clear that he is not comfortable around other dogs (-this will be why he is reacting- a reaction creates distance and gives him time to work out what to do), focus on keeping him SAFE for the short term so he doesn't feel he needs to react. Walking in quiet places were there are likely to be few other dogs? Body blocking space invader dogs that are not recalled by their owners. The overall aim is for him to eventually learn that he can trust you to get rid of the other dogs rather than taking actions into his own hands-)_, lots of barking at home at the slightest sound or movement from outside (and if someone comes to the door, he goes absolutely mental with barking and whining) _(I would restrict access to the front door, set him up a bed elsewhere in the house where he can relax without having to worry about visitors and such like. Perhaps stairgates may help?)_, terrible on the lead _(-Is he walked on a collar and lead? Have you taught him HOW you do want him to walk? I.E. reinforced a slack lead? Then worked on shaping duration and proofing the behaviour? See link below on teaching duration in lead walking context-)_, chases anything that moves, runs away and doesn't always come when he's called (he's very manipulative) _(- How is he manipulative? IMO Dogs are naively selfish, but they don't really do "manipulation"?. I'd keep him on a long lead on walks until you work on a recall. See link for more ideas-)_, bit the postman (though is normally very good with other people) _(-again I'd limit access to scarey visitors and situations. Keep him safe - )_. I've been taking him to obedience lessons but being around other dogs is so stressful for him that he doesn't seem to get much out of it (he does, however, like obedience training at home with no distractions). _(-Sounds like the obedience training classes are a bit too much for him ATM. Aside from obviously doing work with a behaviourist hopefully, I'd continue as you are now; continue having fun at home teaching obedience, tricks if he wants. Keeping that clever collie brain busy :thumbup: -)_
> 
> ...


Useful links:​*Loose lead walking:*

Loose leash walking-_KIKOPUP Tutorial_

Equipment tips- _KIKOPUP VID_

300 Peck Pigeon- teaching duration and distance (for loose leash walking and other behaviours)

*Recall and Chasing*

How do I stop my dog chasing? David Ryan

Why won't my dog come back? David Ryan

(* David Ryan also has a book on Predatory Chasing which I have read and think is fantastic. Would highly recommend it :thumbup: *)

*General stuff:*

Understanding the basics- Clicker Training

Understanding the basics- Learning Theory

Hope this helps. Keep us updated


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