# Rising Vet Fees



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I have thought, for many years, that the rising cost of vet fees have led to endless animals being pts because the owners simply cant afford expensive treatments. Vets are now one of the highest paid professions, and the reason being, that so many of us fail to question or shop around.

Here is an article from The Telegraph

Expensive vet bills 'forcing animal lovers to kill pets' - Telegraph

And if you still dont think vets overcharge, read this

http://awardingbody.rcvs.org.uk/news/disciplinary-committee-dismisses-charges-against-herts-vet/


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## Annabel12 (Jun 6, 2012)

But then if people can't afford rising vets fees they should have insurance to cover the cost.


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## bertlovesedi (Jul 18, 2010)

I have to agree with anabel. insurance is a great way of helping with vet fees though i know they do not cover routine fees such as neutering and vaccinations. also, i know people who put money away each month to help with vet fees. I have a very good friend who is a vet nurse and trust me she doesn't do it for the money!The vet she works for will offer payment plans to anyone unable to pay outright for expensive unforeseeable vet fees, but i suppose thats down to individual vets and the area you live in. here in the west midlands the vets are not too expensive. I do understand that vet fees are costly but then that goes with being a responsible dog owner


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Insurence can be helpful but it does depend where you are where, your dog is from, what breed it is and if the company change the goal posts which a lot do , so its not the answer to everything...

Eg my dog if I had got him from a breeder (any breeder) as a pup would have cost me about e9 a month to insure depending on the extent of the ins cover I wanted.. However because he was a rescue 1 yr old and with an unknown background they wanted e30 a month 10 years ago..

Some ins companies change their cover so while you paid in for years thinking you would be covered along comes a change and your dogs condition or injury may not be covered anymore..

Yes ins is great but its not 100% a saving account is just as helpful to many people


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I think some of it may be to do with the advances in vetenary science meaning that as more treatments become available they often do so at a higher cost because our vets can do more now.
20 years ago I would think that a fair few dogs would of been put down because there was no treatments, but now there are but they are expensive so some dogs are still put down because the owners can't afford it.

Also the majority of vets wants payments upfront then for the pet owner to claim back from the insurers - again I can understand this, I'm sure a fair few claims get rejected - so people do need to find the money up front even if insured, which is sadly impossible for a lot of owners.

Then at times of financial difficulty - sadly insurance is one of the 1st things to get cancelled.

I will say though Missy had a lump removed from her leg last week - the total bill was what I thought a reasonable £274.47.
This covers the anesthestic, the surgery, vet and vet nurses time, the facilities, the pain killer, sutures, antibiotics, sending the lump off to be checked and the follow up appointments.

I personally though it was a fair price and have no issues paying it.
Vets train for longer than most other occupations, leave Uni with a frightening amount of debt, have expensive liabilities insurance and overheads to pay.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

As others have said the overheads to run a practice are phenominol.
You expect a high level of care and unfortunately that is not cheap.

They work hard, they are on call and TBH if you add up all the out of hours work they do most veterinary professions dont get much more that min wage!
Some are the exeption but thankfully they are few and far between.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Vets charge a £30 ten min consultation fee - before any treatment is given. Not sure how £180 an hour can be equated with minimum wage. My last visit to the vet with one of the cats cost £50 altogether for an antibiotic shot which actually costs pence, and I was in there less than ten mins. 

My cat was a little quiet that day and not himself, though he was eating and drinking well. Most people just dont have £50 to spend, unless its an emergency. Some people dont have £50 spare even in an emergency. Not everyone can afford insurance, especially in multipet households, and most insurances have an excess, so dont cover vet fees under a certain amount.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Reminds me of something my old boss once told me. He'd phoned his lawyer for what he thought was some very straightforward advice on something and received a £1,000 bill, which he thought was a bit steep for for a 5 minute call, so he asked for an itemised bill. The result came back:

5 minute conversation = £5
Knowing what to advise through years of studying = £995

Mind you, I personally don't agree with blanket suggesting insurance. The higher the fees, the higher the claims, the higher the premiums so everyone suffers, even those with healthy dogs.

To a certain extent I can accept the fees for the consultations and treatment. It's the complete and utter rip off where prescription medicines are concerned. My dog was on Previcox, which costs me 92p a tablet from online pharmacies, but my vet charges me £2.70 for the same tablet! And Tramadol is 5p per 50mg tablet from places like Lloyds Chemist etc, but the vet charges 14p per table. And Metacam. £5.80 from an online pharmacy, £24.50 for exactly the same from the vet. 

For the convenience of being able to order and collect from the vet's surgery I might be prepared to accept up to twice the cost of an online pharmacy, but routinely 3 times as much is simply unacceptable and that Metcam was an out and out rip-off.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Well if you dont believe me and pref to believe what the papers say check this out.......
Best paid jobs 2011: Tables of official figures for UK salaries | This is Money

Vets are number 83 if you can be bothered to scroll down that far, way below paramedics, teachers and pharmacologists 
6 years hard study not to mention all the experience needed to make a good vet doesnt add up to much.
Oh and to add this profession also has the highest suicide rate, I dont need to hunt for statistics on that as I already know of 2 that did it within the last 10 years and both mithin 30 miles of each other.
You will also find a lot of veterinary workers have mental health issues depression being the biggest problem.
Oh and to add I worked hard for 3 years to gain my RVN qualification I work in excess of 40/week inc on call I also have to fund my own professional development which is a requirement to be a vet or nurse and I earn a max of 14000/year less whatever the taxman takes 
So if you think the vets surgery is a money making factory I would reconsider, it takes a special kind of someone to do that kind of work. We take verbal and physical abuse, get bitten,scratched,kicked and bashed not to mention the aray of bodily fluid we end up covered in. We put up with it all and have to take it with a smile.
You want the best for your pet, then work with the vet, ask about charges and do consider insurance. This profession is not the NHS and therefore some people dont appreciate exactly how much things cost.
Sorry but this kind of thread really winds me up


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> Well if you dont believe me and pref to believe what the papers say check this out.......
> Best paid jobs 2011: Tables of official figures for UK salaries | This is Money
> 
> Vets are number 83 if you can be bothered to scroll down that far, way below paramedics, teachers and pharmacologists
> ...


Hardly an unbiased opinion as you work in the industry! The link quoting highest paid jobs relates to salaried professions. Most vets either own or are a partner in their own practice and not 'salaried'. I dont see the relevance of you quoting your own salary, as you are not a vet.

This thread may indeed wind you up, but this topic was in the news today and is worthy of discussion, and of concern to many pet owners.

It does indeed take a special kind of person to become a vet. It also takes a special kind of person who is able to euthanise an animal because the owner cant afford the fees. Thankfully, there are still some very kind and compassionate vets, though they are few and far between!


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

I do agree with fleur that I'm sure there are a lot more options today than there have ever been, and unfortunately they don't come cheap.

You know you can shop around for vets? They all have different prices so it might be worth checking around your local area and looking at their websites too see who comes out cheapest.

Also, most vets will be reasonable and you can talk to them about payment options if you don't have the money. Some will allow you to pay in installations. Always worth discussing if you're hard up.

I personally have a savings account and pet insurance (petplans highest level of cover) When I was in college years ago and one of my dogs got bitten and I had no money to pay the emergency vets. From that day I swore to myself id never put myself in that situations again and would always have an emergency account for the dogs, which I see as a responsibility to my dogs. (I managed to find the money)

I do sometimes think when people say they don't have them money; do they not have the money or do they not want to have the money? Perhaps I'm in a more fortunate position than others, but of I had a large vet bill I would find the money. I'd sell pretty much everything I owned to get it paid, beg, borrow and steal until I had the money. I have friends who are facing extremely huge vet bills and they are finding the money. I appreciate there will be times when people just can't find it, but for the most part I think people can.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

I think my op is extremely relevent.
Having a pet is a luxury....Fact.
If you cant afford the treatment then either get insurance or dont have pets!
Simple


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Annabel12 said:


> But then if people can't afford rising vets fees they should have insurance to cover the cost.


I am 100% an advocate of insurance, however its often when insurance is used up that there are problems.

All my pets are insured. At the time of insuring Harvey I thought I was taking out cover for life...turns out its not quite that. Harvey is covered for a maximum of £6,500 per condition over his lifetime. Harvey's vets fee's are now in the region of £10k - £15k and his insurance is now £65 a month. In recent months his treatment has been between £200 - £400 a month. That's a hell of a lot of "spare" money to find each month on top of the insurance fee's.

When you look at costs for medication the price difference from online with prescription compared to what the vets charge is unbelievable and I think this need to be looked at.

Here is an example. This is the drug that Harvey has been getting a shot of every couple of weeks. As you can see 80 mls = £171 through this site. Harvey gets a 6ml shot and this costs around £120 each time. On face value it seems extortionate to me.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I kind of sit on the fence about vets and practices.

My dogs are all registered with an excellent veterinary hospital. They are not cheap and people like to tell me this and say "so and so down the road are much cheaper, you should go to them" but do they have the kind of facilities the hospital has? Are their vets and VN's as compassionate and experienced?

I know my vets offer payment plans as I was once faced with an expensive bill and they offered various options in order that my dog got treated.

However, I try and take my dogs to the vets as a last resort as the consultation fee is the thing I have a problem with, nearly £40 for a first consultation, then I have to pay for a second which is cheaper. Why do I have to pay for a second consultation if it's merely a check to see everything is going ok?

One of my dogs has to go in for an operation on Tuesday to remove an umbilical hernia which has become necrotic. First consultation and a weeks course of Clavaseptin cost around £77, then yesterday it cost me another £55 for a second consultation and more antibiotics! Thats £132 for 2 consultations and 2 weeks worth of antibiotics, thats ridiculous IMO. Then of course I have to pay over £300 for the operation, minus pre-op bloods and the lump sent off for biopsy.

I do wonder if the very fact that pet insurance is such a common thing for people to have, that affects prices of the vets because after all, the client isnt actually paying for the bill, the insurance company is. I wonder if we went back to the days where pet insurance didnt exist and people had to pay out of their own pockets, if vets would be more considerately priced?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> I think my op is extremely relevent.
> Having a pet is a luxury....Fact.
> If you cant afford the treatment then either get insurance or dont have pets!
> Simple


Great response from someone in the industry! Pets are a luxury! Really? My 7 rescues are FAR from a luxury.

A very harsh and arrogant 'like it or lump it' response!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Vets charge a £30 ten min consultation fee - before any treatment is given. Not sure how £180 an hour can be equated with minimum wage.


£180 has nothing to do with minimum wage. It has to cover a number of wages- vet, vet nurse, receptionist etc. It also has to contribute rent, rates, utility bills, expensive medical equipment and the many other overheads of running a practice. The vet will not be earning £180 per hour.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

rocco33 said:


> £180 has nothing to do with minimum wage. It has to cover a number of wages- vet, vet nurse, receptionist etc. It also has to contribute rent, rates, utility bills, expensive medical equipment and the many other overheads of running a practice. The vet will not be earning £180 per hour.


No, youre right - they earn more! Forgot to include yearly vaccinations which is 70% of their income, routine operations, neuterings, emergency surgery, out of hours fees, profits on medications, etc etc.

Yep, they have wages to pay, utilities and equipment - just like any other business!

Vets4Pets are now doing vaccinations for £15. I took a couple of mine that were due. The vet said they had been soooo busy with this offer. Makes sense to me that the more reasonable the fee, the more business you attract.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Ang2 said:


> Great response from someone in the industry! Pets are a luxury! Really? My 7 rescues are FAR from a luxury.
> 
> A very harsh and arrogant 'like it or lump it' response!


The bottom line for me is that, before you make the choice to own an animal you research all the costs involved - vet fees, insurance, feeding, routine care. If you have any doubts about your ability to care for an animal then surely you wait until you know that you'll be able to do so? Owning animals is a choice that we make to improve our lives (and the lives of the animals in many cases); so a luxury if you like. No one NEEDS to own a pet to survive.

Moaning about the cost of upkeep is like me owning a Ferrari and then moaning about the cost of parts and servicing when I knew it would be expensive before buying the car.

I have every sympathy for those who have animals, fall on hard times and then struggle - that's when I agree with the use of charities and the PDSA etc. It really irritates me when people get animals knowing that they cannot afford their upkeep - I met someone in the park talking about getting their third dog not long ago; the woman with them was asking how they could afford it and they replied that that was what the PDSA was for. Total abuse of an organisation that is there to help those genuinely in need of help.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

While I agree that insurance is a good thing if you cannot afford treatment, there has been a down side. Unfortunately, it has led to vets doing more and more treatments/investigations (in many cases unnecessary) which has in turn put insurance premiums up and up.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Alfie is insured but that doesn't mean I still can't be shocked at the price that the vets are getting away with and to be honest I think they charge more if you are insured as they are guaranteed the fee regardless.

Here are some examples, In jan of this year i took alfie into the vets for a rumbly tummy and he wasnt eating, n injection of buscopan cost me £5 and this is medication you can get from boots for about £3 so that was ok, then in march he had a bad tummy for a few days so he had caught something and the price for the buscopan injection (exactly the same dosage as before) and it cost £70, now where did they get that figure from?????

My aunts dog had a rash for 2 days and she took her dog (also insured) to the vets and the vet told her she will need allergy testing which he told her will cost £1000, who has ever heard of it costing so much witout any signs of allergies anyway?

I think the price is too high and there are dogs out there who maybe are not getting treatment when they fall on hard times.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Perhaps we should have a whip round for the poor vets......after all from the sounds of some of these replies..we would think vets must be living on the edge of bankruptcy....what a load of tosh.

Vets will charge what people will and do pay because they love their pets. Its a business.....like every other service. I dont mind paying for a professional service but lets not make it sound like vets are all living hand to mouth and struggling to pay the bills....please. When was the last time you saw a vet driving a beat up old banger or even anything less than a new...or nearly new....luxury car. Mine has a brand new bmw. Good luck to him but lets not make out he isnt living a luxurious life on the back of elevating vet fees 

As for charities....they are for people on benefits. Those of us that are working to make ends meet...no chance. We have to chuck it on the credit card and worry about paying it back later.....


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

chichi said:


> Perhaps we should have a whip round for the poor vets......after all from the sounds of some of these replies..we would think vets must be living on the edge of bankruptcy....what a load of tosh.
> 
> Vets will charge what people will and do pay because they love their pets. Its a business.....like every other service. I dont mind paying for a professional service but lets not make it sound like vets are all living hand to mouth and struggling to pay the bills....please. When was the last time you saw a vet driving a beat up old banger or even anything less than a new...or nearly new....luxury car. Mine has a brand new bmw. Good luck to him but lets not make out he isnt living a luxurious life on the back of elevating vet fees
> 
> As for charities....they are for people on benefits. Those of us that are working to make ends meet...no chance. We have to chuck it on the credit card and worry about paying it back later.....


Mine drives a beaten up car (for farm visits I would guess as they are mostly a large animal practice)....and so did my last one; but again it was a rural location. The luxury motors are probably in the garage at home!

My point wasn't that I think vets struggle to survive, more that - whether or not you agree with the costs of treatment - you know the score before you get an animal, so there is no point moaning about something that you cannot change. I have found that vets in rural locations are much more reasonable...I would guess as most of their business is done with folk for whom animals are their livelihoods and not kept as a luxury pet. Just pitching to their market I would think.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> Vets4Pets are now doing vaccinations for £15. I took a couple of mine that were due. The vet said they had been soooo busy with this offer. Makes sense to me that the more reasonable the fee, the more business you attract.


Special offers like this are only done for a short time though, to attract new clients, as they don't really bring in any profit. Vets have to make some kind of profit else they will go out of business. £15 for a vaccination barely covers the cost to the vet to actually buy the vaccine in the first place.

As has been said earlier, pets are a luxury in the sense that no one HAS to have them. It's not fair to blame vets when people cannot afford treatment for their animals; pet owners need to take some personal responsibility.

And if a vet is obviously overcharging (because in all professions you get unscrupulous people) then find a better vet. All the ones I've met have been lovely people who would never dream of ripping someone off.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

magpie said:


> And if a vet is obviously overcharging (because in all professions you get unscrupulous people) then find a better vet. All the ones I've met have been lovely people who would never dream of ripping someone off.


You're very lucky then. It would appear that lots have a rather different experience.

We're stuck with our ridiculously overcharging vet due to such an extensive medical history, and the fact that they have a very conveniently placed surgery. With so many and varied medical issues, gettting to the vet super quick could mean the difference between life and death.

Most of the vets employed at the surgery by the owner are lovely, and happy to write prescriptions, advise on cheaper OTC alternatives to try etc etc, out of earshot of the owner, it's just the owner that has absolutely no understanding of this. When we asked her recently about a cheaper OTC alternative she looked at me as if I'd grown 2 heads. Even after I pointed out the 16 diff meds he was on at the moment and that although we would always make sure we could afford it, when there's a cheaper option who wouldn't want to take advantage?

And I've just remembered that they were advertising for another vet recently, and the ad included a 'generous salary, plus bonus'. Makes me wonder whether or not that bonus is sales related...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I think the larger chain vets are more responsible for this overcharging. Anyone remember the Medivet programme - it's not just overcharging but needless investigations that is a problem.

The reality is though, that medical care is expensive. We are cushioned from this reality by the NHS - if we had to pay for our own medical care we would perhaps have a better understanding of why vets charge what they do.

I agree with those that say vet care has to be taken into account when considering whether you can afford a pet, which is not a necessity but a luxury.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> Great response from someone in the industry! Pets are a luxury! Really? My 7 rescues are FAR from a luxury.
> 
> A very harsh and arrogant 'like it or lump it' response!


Are your pets vital to how you function in life?
If they are then they would be registered with the relevent charity and they cover the cost of treatments required.
Am guessing they are not and rescue or non rescue they are your responsibility and its up to you to make yourself aware of costs and ensure you are able to afford it.
Do you get on your high horse when taking your car into the garage or visiting a hair salon?
All these services are performed by trained persons. A vet trains for at least 6 years, they have to buy the books, cover traveling and accomodation fee's aswell as tuition costs. You think it ends when they qualify? No guess again, registration fee's insurance fee's and CPD fee's are ongoing.
If you cannot afford to treat an animal and you have more than one pet then you are silly! Charity assistance can be sought but in all honesty why should they pay for something you as an owner should have budgeted for?


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

It amazes me when people moan about vet costs. It's not the NHS - it's a business which has to pay all business expenses from premises, staff, heat , light, transport, medical equipment, etc, etc.

The bald fact is that veterinary care has improved enormously over the past 20 years or so - but so have the associated costs. Simply put - a dog with a broken leg could easily have been put to sleep in the past but now it's highly likely that everything will be put back to normal. But, yes, you have to pay for it. I've spent thousands of my own money (on uninsured pets) and didn't begrudge a penny. It was my decision to have the animal and it's my responsibility to look after it.

And if you think your vet is expensive - change vets. Better yet, compare what your vet would charge to what a private health provider would charge you if you had to be treated for the same thing. I think the vet would be a bargain.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2012)

i paid £140 for a 1am emergency vet appointment 2 weeks ago as i had a very nasty medical problem with one of my snakes , i thought that price was fair as i were paying for the expertise of an exotic`s vet to tell me what was going on.
taking into consideration the time of the morning my snake was rushed in , and the treatments that followed [tests, no waiting for results and then having to make the decision to pts my snake as an operation of that kind on a snake just wasn`t do - able] 
i thought that was a fair price , cremation was included in the price too and i got my snakes ashes back.
whether we love or hate our vets they are necessary without them a lot of animals would be in a whole world of trouble with an awful lot of suffering taking place.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> You're very lucky then. It would appear that lots have a rather different experience.


I don't think I've been lucky, I think I just have a better understanding of what veterinary care costs than some people. Those same vets that I've seen have also had complaints from other clients about overcharging, even though they don't overcharge. It's just that the clients don't understand how expensive it is to run a veterinary surgery.

I do have great sympathy for someone like yourself who is 'stuck' with a vet that overcharges though, because that's not fair.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> It amazes me when people moan about vet costs. It's not the NHS - it's a business which has to pay all business expenses from premises, staff, heat , light, transport, medical equipment, etc, etc.
> 
> The bald fact is that veterinary care has improved enormously over the past 20 years or so - but so have the associated costs. Simply put - a dog with a broken leg could easily have been put to sleep in the past but now it's highly likely that everything will be put back to normal. But, yes, you have to pay for it. I've spent thousands of my own money (on uninsured pets) and didn't begrudge a penny. It was my decision to have the animal and it's my responsibility to look after it.
> 
> And if you think your vet is expensive - change vets. Better yet, compare what your vet would charge to what a private health provider would charge you if you had to be treated for the same thing. I think the vet would be a bargain.


Well i know buscopan costs £3 at boots and on private heth care it would be nowhere near £70.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Well i know buscopan costs £3 at boots and on private heth care it would be nowhere near £70.


It would if you took into account the cost of the doctor's consultation, the receptionist, the waiting room and the consulting room. Not to mention the costs of any tests to discover whether or not that was the right thing to use for treatment.

My partner just had an annual check up. Xrays - £200 ish. Time with doctor - about 5 minutes. Bill for doctor £80.

You pay for the medical knowledge you don't have.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> It would if you took into account the cost of the doctor's consultation, the receptionist, the waiting room and the consulting room. Not to mention the costs of any tests to discover whether or not that was the right thing to use for treatment.
> 
> My partner just had an annual check up. Xrays - £200 ish. Time with doctor - about 5 minutes. Bill for doctor £80.
> 
> You pay for the medical knowledge you don't have.


You see i get itemised billing, this was just the buscopan, i got charged over thirty for the consult anyway, then tht plus another hundred for another injection.

Plus the same thing had cost me £5 from the same vet in jan of the same year.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> You see i get itemised billing, this was just the buscopan, i got charged over thirty for the consult anyway, then tht plus another hundred for another injection.
> 
> Plus the same thing had cost me £5 from the same vet in jan of the same year.


So why didn't you ask them?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> So why didn't you ask them?


I did, i phoned and asked and they said thats what it costs, id already paid as at the time i didnt read every item and have my other bill to compare. I asked for them to enquire about it only to be told that s the price of it, a 3 pound a box medicine cost me 70 among other things cost about £200 for a jippy tummy, i can see why if people have fallen on hard times then sometimes you just cannot afford to take a dog to the vets.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

When a drug is licenced for use in animals its a different licence to that issued for human use. Its also a hell of a lot more expensive.
Vets have to abide by the cascade ruling, see link;
Prescribing cascade and 'off-label' use


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Pets ARE a luxury, as been said before, you do not need them in your life to function. They should be a luxury for those who can afford to keep them and can look after them. Saying they are not a luxury is like saying going on holidays to far flung destinations, or having a sports car is not a luxury.

Can't have them, don't have them. I have one dog as she is all I can afford on my wage, I'm being realistic. I would love to have more but my bank balance will not stretch it.

I do not understand those of you who say you are 'stuck' with a particular vet...unless you live in a massively rural location miles from anywhere, there will surely be another practice close by? 

I recently paid over £600 on repairs on my car...did I complain? Yes. But did I rant and rave and say mechanics are all in it for the money...no? I DO need a car, for work and with that come the costs. You get on with it.

Vets are NOT in it for the money. Partners and owners of practices may earn a nice figure, but the majority of vets are employed and on a salary, which makes the previously suggested statistic that vets are (I think?) 83rd in the highest paid list very relevant. They work unsocial hours and very often get little thanks for what they do.

As someone else said we are cushioned from the reality of health costs due to the NHS, my boyfriend has recently been treated for a serious medical condition. Charges to us £0 (except the usual taxes every worker pays), equivalent costs for the same treatment in the USA where they is no NHS: $10000 (or £6500). :scared:

But i digress. Basically. Don't have a pet if you can't afford it's care and budget for serious health problems. If you have more than one pet BY CHOICE and can't afford it, you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Its a hard one but I do believe as harsh as it is if you cannot afford to be able to provide the care required for an animal then you should really be thinking twice about whether your at a suitable time in your life to have said animal.

Before I joined my local vets I phoned 5-6 up asking prices for a spay for a dog Millies size, the cost of initial jabs and annual boosters as well as micro chipping. I dropped into 2 of them which made me realise I didnt want to register Millie there. :frown:

Then I found our vets and yep its a chain of vets  But im happy with them.

We made the decision to not insure Millie in May this year. When Millie injured herself a few weeks back there was no hesitation, no talk of money but took her straight to the vets - we dont have the knowledge to sew her back together - so we took her to a professional - simples. The price we paid was for a professional service on a saturday evening - £350. It was what it was - We paid it with a smile (Me more so than hubby  ) and took Millie home to care for her. We asked for a quote when we dropped her off and the quote they gave was what we paid - :thumbup:

I would never leave myself in a position where I couldnt pay vet bills :frown: If you dont have access to money for emergency situations you need to have insurance. 

Also if your not happy with how your vet treats you MOVE - Its a private system and you can register at more than 1 vet. Your not obligated to return - If you think youve been hard done by or you dont trust them then dont give them your custom. 

We took quite a while choosing ours and after Millies accident I Know we chose the right ones. (She was operated on out of hours for no extra cost and home that day.)


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Mechanics are in it for the money and i dont think you can compare anyway as an animal is life and a car is a large piece of tin really.

Plus you can say dont get them if you cant afford them, what about people who when they got them they could afford them but then find themselves out of their job and into a lower paid one?


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Then you should have been sensible whilst you had money and save for those emergencys -be it your pet, car, house. Whatever.
The problem with the majority of people these days is they live beyond their means and do not save. And before you say anything, I'm in a low paid job, but i save monthly and don't splurge on unnecessary luxuries.
If money is that much of a problem, be up front with your vet, tell them your concerns. They are human after all and will understand and may be able to arrange something. Like when I went to my dentists, he wanted to take X-rays and give me a scale and polish, when I explained I'd recently bought a house and didn't have much spare cash, he did the X-rays and just hand scaled my teeth, which was cheaper. Oh but wait...you probably think dentists are in it for the money too? 

To all those complaining about vets bills.....do you go a once, twice a year holiday? Do you go out drinking every weekend, do you smoke?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I put money away too, always have since i was a child and i dont go drinking etc so have always put a bit aside, yes people live beyond their means nowdays, however basics are much more then they ever were. People need to borrow so much money to be able to buy a house or even if you rent it is very high and usually a very high percentage of your wages.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> basics are much more then they ever were.


Yes. Point answered.
If pets aren't a luxury - then they are the basics, prices of which have increased. (as said by yourself) 
Vets have basic costs which have risen (as said by yourself) hence price increases.

That's inflation unfortunately.

ETA, I wasn't specifically targeting you by my comment about savings, drinking, holidays etc. but many people would plead they have little money actually enjoy a lot of these things on a regular basis and I know because I come across it regularly in my job.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Chippet said:


> Yes. Point answered.
> If pets aren't a luxury - then they are the basics, prices of which have increased. (as said by yourself)
> Vets have basic costs which have risen (as said by yourself) hence price increases.
> 
> That's inflation unfortunately.


Yes but the percentage is usually out of line with general inflation, sometimes things are blamed on inflation when it is someone seeing a profit to be made.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

And it's not just veterinary practices doing it.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes but the percentage is usually out of line with general inflation, sometimes things are blamed on inflation when it is someone seeing a profit to be made.


Just like - energy bills, food costs, rail fares? All above the general inflation rate.

Vets make a living. They make a profit (if they are lucky). Vet prices go up as a combination of inflation and new medical practices. That's the way it is.

(And I don't understand if you queried the cost at your vets and had been charged £5 on one occasion and £70 on another for exactly the same thing how they couldn't explain why. If it had been me I would have pressed the point until I either got a satisfactory answer or reported them to the RCVS or simply have taken my business elsewhere).


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> Just like - energy bills, food costs, rail fares? All above the general inflation rate.
> 
> Vets make a living. They make a profit (if they are lucky). Vet prices go up as a combination of inflation and new medical practices. That's the way it is.
> 
> (And I don't understand if you queried the cost at your vets and had been charged £5 on one occasion and £70 on another for exactly the same thing how they couldn't explain why. If it had been me I would have pressed the point until I either got a satisfactory answer or reported them to the RCVS or simply have taken my business elsewhere).


yes but the cost of rail fares are not life and death for an innocent animal.

I did question it, but they said i ha been charged right at £70, i did pes he oint however i didnt want to complain about them for the simple reason that they had saved my other dogs life more then once so i couldn't complain about them and it would have been clear who it was too. I am looking at other vets, but i dont want to go somewhere just because it is cheap.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

When I got my first cat I was told itd be 600$ for her to be spayed. This vet was located in a small town.

I went to one just located out in the country and was charged 200$ 

It cost me 550$ for Sophie to be spayed, including a microchip and blood work.

350$ for a uti infection.

Yeh part of me does think that it can be over priced. I cant afford insurance but I put money aside a month to cover unexpected bills. I also have a credit card and my own savings that I would not hesitate to use.

For me to walk in the door its costs me 70 $ before any treatment


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## ozonelove (Aug 27, 2012)

im sorry but to say "it takes a special kind of person to euth and animal because the owners cant pay for treatment" is totally unfair, its not their fault you have spent your money on other things. they dont sit there jumping for joy that they get to put ANOTHER animal to sleep! 
this kind of ignorance really gets to me. 
as its been said, most vets and nurses hold no shares or say in the practice they work in, they dont get to pick the price they charge you....its set. as its also been said if you dont like the charges you incur then look around.
i work in a practice that aims to be 40% cheaper then surrounding vets....this isnt because we have less overheads or use lesser quality products, we have fully qualified and registered staff with a high level of experience....the difference is we do between 20-30 ops a day (where most other vets do 5-10) and we see around 100 consults a day (on a drop in basis). im not saying other practices are having a better time charging more and doing less, they are not, we all have the same daily routine, doing our best in a crappy situation! the crappy situation being clients that cannot, or will not, pay for treatment and proceed to blame in on us? even being cheaper then most vets people still ask for discounts or "favours" and its not fair, please dont sit there and blame us for not saving your pet for free, when its your fault, we are ones that are left in pieces at the end the day. yes we love pets but it does not mean we get to treat them for free. we still have bills at home to pay and pets to look after, most staff get discounts for their own pets treatment...its not free....and if we have to take our pets to an out of hours vets or specialists then we get no such favours! we get charged the same as the next person, and we dont bitch and moan about it because we know how much work/love and compassion goes into each patient, we want nothing more than to see that pet going home at the end of the day. please dont make out that your the victim here because you cant afford the care......its your pet thats the victim and you as an owner are the ONLY one to blame for it.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> Are your pets vital to how you function in life?
> If they are then they would be registered with the relevent charity and they cover the cost of treatments required.
> Am guessing they are not and rescue or non rescue they are your responsibility and its up to you to make yourself aware of costs and ensure you are able to afford it.
> Do you get on your high horse when taking your car into the garage or visiting a hair salon?
> ...


*Are your pets vital to how you function in life?* No, actually its me thats vital to how THEY function!

All my animals are insured, and they have never gone without medical care when needed. However, sadly thats not the case for many pets whose owners simply cant afford it. And nobody can know for sure that they will be financially stable for the next 15/20 years of their pets life. None of us know what is around the corner. So on this basis, none of us such own a pet?

What makes me different to you, is that Im not in it for the money or a career. If I could help an animal, I would do it for nothing.

I would certainly get on my high horse if a garage tried to rip me off with extortionate charges. Its somehow more distateful when the life of an animal depends on cost. I remember reading an article by the RVSC only a couple of years ago, appealing to vets to think about donating some of their time for free and only charging for meds in cases where financially difficulty meant pts a much loved pet. Wonder just how many have done that.

The cost of an actual vaccination is around £3 and you are in and out in minutes. Most vets are charging £30/40.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

ozonelove said:


> im sorry but to say "it takes a special kind of person to euth and animal because the owners cant pay for treatment" is totally unfair, its not their fault you have spent your money on other things. they dont sit there jumping for joy that they get to put ANOTHER animal to sleep!
> this kind of ignorance really gets to me.
> as its been said, most vets and nurses hold no shares or say in the practice they work in, they dont get to pick the price they charge you....its set. as its also been said if you dont like the charges you incur then look around.
> i work in a practice that aims to be 40% cheaper then surrounding vets....this isnt because we have less overheads or use lesser quality products, we have fully qualified and registered staff with a high level of experience....the difference is we do between 20-30 ops a day (where most other vets do 5-10) and we see around 100 consults a day (on a drop in basis). im not saying other practices are having a better time charging more and doing less, they are not, we all have the same daily routine, doing our best in a crappy situation! the crappy situation being clients that cannot, or will not, pay for treatment and proceed to blame in on us? even being cheaper then most vets people still ask for discounts or "favours" and its not fair, please dont sit there and blame us for not saving your pet for free, when its your fault, we are ones that are left in pieces at the end the day. yes we love pets but it does not mean we get to treat them for free. we still have bills at home to pay and pets to look after, most staff get discounts for their own pets treatment...its not free....and if we have to take our pets to an out of hours vets or specialists then we get no such favours! we get charged the same as the next person, and we dont bitch and moan about it because we know how much work/love and compassion goes into each patient, we want nothing more than to see that pet going home at the end of the day. please dont make out that your the victim here because you cant afford the care......its your pet thats the victim and you as an owner are the ONLY one to blame for it.


Thank you for that post, and showing all of us that there ARE vets that care, and more importantly that charging a fairer price increases business.

Where are you based?


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## ozonelove (Aug 27, 2012)

The cost of an actual vaccination is around £3 and you are in and out in minutes. Most vets are charging £30/40.[/QUOTE]

yes if its black and white a vaccine does cost about that much, but thats how much we get charged to buy it, so as with EVERYTHING in life like milk and bread, there is a mark up added, as has also been stated general running fees of the practice, dont forget the vet giving your pet a full nose to tail exam and picking up anything else that is not normal.

I also doubt you would give up 40+ hours a week for free, and if you would, i can assume that you would have to give up your house, car and general well-being also? or would expect all those to be given to you based on your "good deed".


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## ozonelove (Aug 27, 2012)

AG2 we are a chain owned by 3 people that is mainly based in Northamptonshire and areas surrounding Birmingham. 

Please dont assume that other places dont care about your pet, if i was to move to another practice that charges more to their clients i would still care just as much and do the same job to the best of my abilities.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

ozonelove said:


> AG2 we are a chain owned by 3 people that is mainly based in Northamptonshire and areas surrounding Birmingham.
> 
> Please dont assume that other places dont care about your pet, if i was to move to another practice that charges more to their clients i would still care just as much and do the same job to the best of my abilities.


My point is that you are charging 40% less than other practices, and reaping the rewards. If other practices did the same, they would be busier, people would use their services more often, and everyone would be happy especially the animals 

If your practice can do it, then why cant others.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

As always some people deliberately missing the point and getting on their soap boxes. 

I cannot believe that some are naive enough to think vets are not making more than a fair enough profit without hiking prices further Errrr.....reality check please.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> *Are your pets vital to how you function in life?* No, actually its me thats vital to how THEY function!
> 
> All my animals are insured, and they have never gone without medical care when needed. However, sadly thats not the case for many pets whose owners simply cant afford it. And nobody can know for sure that they will be financially stable for the next 15/20 years of their pets life. None of us know what is around the corner. So on this basis, none of us such own a pet?
> 
> ...


Then you need to speak to your vets, your vaccine is also an opportunity to have a full health exam which should take at least 10 mins!
Oh and I wouldnt assume from a couple of posts that you actually know me or what I do. Believe me if I wanted to work in an enviroment that allowed me to earn a high wage do an 8 hour shift clock off (and I mean clock off, no going home emotionally drained and concerned about what might happen till my next shift) then I would have choosen a very different career!
You dont like your vets or feel that you are being treated unfairly then whinge at them instead of having a blanket slag off all vet practices thread!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> Then you need to speak to your vets, your vaccine is also an opportunity to have a full health exam which should take at least 10 mins!
> Oh and I wouldnt assume from a couple of posts that you actually know me or what I do. Believe me if I wanted to work in an enviroment that allowed me to earn a high wage do an 8 hour shift clock off (and I mean clock off, no going home emotionally drained and concerned about what might happen till my next shift) then I would have choosen a very different career!
> You dont like your vets or feel that you are being treated unfairly then whinge at them instead of having a blanket slag off all vet practices thread!


You seem to forget that this thread was started because of a recent article in the newspaper. Clearly, its not just me who thinks that the cost of vet care is rising alarmingly.


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## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

Went to the vet today in a rush because Dante has to go to the kennels for a week starting Wednesday. Spent £88 on boosters and kennel cough. It's certainly much more expensive than my regular vet clinic which is about 30 minutes out of the city. If I'm not mistaken generally I pay around £50 for both.

On the bright side vet gave Dante a full health check (he was happy to get fussed over) and the good doc let me know that Dante is fat. Best vet visit ever!


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> You seem to forget that this thread was started because of a recent article in the newspaper. Clearly, its not just me who thinks that the cost of vet care is rising alarmingly.


And it was yourself that brought it to the forum.
You think everyone is going to agree with whats written in the papers? I dont never have as I know how very one sided they can be, they always over embelish stories as thats what sells papers!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> *And it was yourself that brought it to the forum*.
> You think everyone is going to agree with whats written in the papers? I dont never have as I know how very one sided they can be, they always over embelish stories as thats what sells papers!


And your point is? That because its a 'touchy' subject for YOU, I shouldnt have started this thread?

Nobody has to agree with whats written in the papers, they have their own minds and experiences.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

chichi said:


> As always some people deliberately missing the point and getting on their soap boxes.
> 
> I cannot believe that some are naive enough to think vets are not making more than a fair enough profit without hiking prices further Errrr.....reality check please.


Not agreeing with you doesn't indicate naivety, missing a point or getting on soap boxes. The vets and veterinary nurses that I know work hard for their money and genuinely care. They are in the main skilled and caring individuals who have trained hard and will go the extra mile to ensure that animals are treated to the best of their abilities, that includes taking small weekly payments for expensive treatments so that animals do not suffer. I also have no issue with the charges of any of the practices that I have used - if I did I would seek another practise.

I also recognise that they are businesses and are entitled to make a profit the same as any other - perhaps those who believe that these skilled people should offer their expertise for very little are the ones who need a reality check? There seems to be a view that any sort of vocational or caring type work (human or animal) should be done mostly from the goodness of peoples' hearts and any money made is somehow immoral.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> And your point is? That because its a 'touchy' subject for YOU, I shouldnt have started this thread?
> 
> Nobody has to agree with whats written in the papers, they have their own minds and experiences.


FFs It a FORUM! Clue is in the title and no I dont agree on the whole. I responded as thats what happens in a f o r u m!
Your the one that made it personal, calling me arrogant, furthering my career and other flipent remarks that quite frankly I find offensive as you dont even know me!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> FFs It a FORUM! Clue is in the title and no I dont agree on the whole. I responded as thats what happens in a f o r u m!
> Your the one that made it personal, calling me arrogant, furthering my career and other flipent remarks that quite frankly I find offensive as you dont even know me!


TBH I find some of your remarks offensive ie "if you cant afford vet fees, dont get a pet" as if to imply that vets can charge what they like, and its your fault if you dont have the money.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> TBH I find some of your remarks offensive ie "if you cant afford vet fees, dont get a pet" as if to imply that vets can charge what they like, and its your fault if you dont have the money.


Thats not offensive thats a fact!
I would love a 4 wheel drive but cant afford it so I dont have one!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I think the problem comes when it's no longer making a living but making a profit out of the animals illness and injury.

I'm not saying anyone in these careers shouldn't earn money but I really disagree with the sheer amount of it.

I've seen some of the seminars the vets are going on and they are meetings on how to earn more money while doing less work, animal care isn't a factory where it is only about profit, care should be at the forefront and then profit should come further down the line imo.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Not agreeing with you doesn't indicate naivety, missing a point or getting on soap boxes. The vets and veterinary nurses that I know work hard for their money and genuinely care. They are in the main skilled and caring individuals who have trained hard and will go the extra mile to ensure that animals are treated to the best of their abilities, that includes taking small weekly payments for expensive treatments so that animals do not suffer. I also have no issue with the charges of any of the practices that I have used - if I did I would seek another practise.
> 
> I also recognise that they are businesses and are entitled to make a profit the same as any other - perhaps those who believe that these skilled people should offer their expertise for very little are the ones who need a reality check? There seems to be a view that any sort of vocational or caring type work (human or animal) should be done mostly from the goodness of peoples' hearts and any money made is somehow immoral.


Nobody is suggesting for a minute that vets shouldnt make a profit. Its just that some procedures are costing hundreds and hundreds of pounds. If you make a service more affordable, then more people will use it.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

gesic said:


> Thats not offensive thats a fact!
> I would love a 4 wheel drive but cant afford it so I dont have one!


Thats a fact? So you think its ok to charge whatever you like? I would love a 4 wheel too, but Im too busy paying you guys


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I think the problem comes when it's no longer making a living but making a profit out of the animals illness and injury.
> 
> I'm not saying anyone in these careers shouldn't earn money but I really disagree with the sheer amount of it.
> 
> I've seen some of the seminars the vets are going on and they are meetings on how to earn more money while doing less work, animal care isn't a factory where it is only about profit, care should be at the forefront and then profit should come further down the line imo.


I am also assuming you will have noted the price of those seminars.
Vets on the whole train to be vets not business leaders although a few are quite good at it!
They need to attend extra CPD in order to remain registered as a vet or nurse and those courses cost a small fortune.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Strategic Weekends: Finance & Marketing

This is the type of thing that i was talking about, i know they are running a business but it isn't the same as buying or selling a car!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

gesic said:


> I am also assuming you will have noted the price of those seminars.
> Vets on the whole train to be vets not business leaders although a few are quite good at it!
> They need to attend extra CPD in order to remain registered as a vet or nurse and those courses cost a small fortune.


I cross posted with you then, some are going there for free.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If it is such a fantastic well paid job, then get trained and do it yourself. If you want to spend 6 years training to do it for free, then do so. I'm in a different profession that I trained hard for and some people do exactly the same about what I do. I could never be a vet, but I value the service I get.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If people are daft enough not to question a vet and pay through the nose for treatments that aren't required, you've got to question whether they've done their homework at all before getting a pet in the first place. 

First point is, not all vets are equal, they are human, just as pet owners are human, and are not infallible. So if you have an ounce of intelligence, and know about your pets, the answer is simple, shop around and find a vet that you trust and that does not charge the earth for treating your pets, but charges a fair price. I've had plenty of consultations waived at my vets simply because they didn't know the answer, and/or because of the frequency of visits when I had a litter on the ground. But I come across plenty of folks who are ignorant enough to try and cut costs with vets, classic example is with repeat prescriptions where vets are obliged by the law to see the animal within a required period of time, and the abuse I've seen receptionists get when informing *customers* is absolutely awful. 

I don't dash my dogs to the vets or every mild infection they get, as I do know that some over the counter remedies are effective at treating mild ailments, but I value a good vet and definitely wouldn't begrudge them charging a fair price. If you think a £30 is expensive, swap vets, I live rurally and have probably in the region of 10 or so to choose from fairly local to me. I think mine charge £23 for a consultation, which often lasts a lot longer in my instance as I tend to discuss things to the nth degree, such as whether the leptospirosis vaccination is required in the North of England, which prompted an after hours meeting and lots of phone calls following my last visit.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I cross posted with you then, some are going there for free.


Some are free or sponsered by drug companies but they tell you more or less what you already know. The good courses are pricey and most of the vets I know prefer to attend courses on expanding their veterinary knowledge not their business know how.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

As someone who uses two different vets practices, I know that there can be a huge difference in prices of vaccinations and stuff!

Ruby goes to the closest vets which is more expensive BUT the whole vets trip stresses her out! She hates sitting in the vets waiting room and she hates waiting outside anywhere near it (she is fine when she's getting checked over.) The only reason I use this vets is because it's less of an ordeal for Ruby, having to travel to the other one on two buses (I don't drive) then getting extremely stressed out in the vets and then getting two buses back.
The other two go to the vets that's further away because they love travelling and going to the vets! The vets is cheaper and IMO the staff are a lot friendlier (there's only one vet I like it the other practice and I find the receptionists can be snotty) 

The price differences are huge! Earlier this year all 3 dogs had their kennel cough vaccinations Ruby's vets charged around £36 the other vets charged £23. 
Consultations cost £29 at Ruby's vets but a consultation doesn't even cost anywhere near £20 at the other vets (can't remember exact amount)

Although there is a huge difference in prices I will still continue to use the more expensive vets for Ruby because it's better for her! I wouldn't want to stress her out even more by taking her to the other vets just to save a few quid. I just wanted to share my experience with the price differences.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> I think the problem comes when it's no longer making a living but making a profit out of the animals illness and injury.
> 
> I'm not saying anyone in these careers shouldn't earn money but I really disagree with the sheer amount of it.
> 
> I've seen some of the seminars the vets are going on and they are meetings on how to earn more money while doing less work, animal care isn't a factory where it is only about profit, care should be at the forefront and then profit should come further down the line imo.


Why should they be entitled to only make a living? I am in a caring profession and so many people think that it should be done for bare minimum because I care. I do care, very much, above all else BUT why should hard work and dedication not be rewarded? In my experience you get a better calibre of person entering such professions when they can actually live on their wages and there are some perks. Otherwise they choose avenues for their intelligence that also bring better financial reward. The more poorly paid caring jobs often have appear to have far less motivated staff doing them. Care should come first, then profit - but as far as I am concerned let them make a reasonable profit, many other caring professions make an awful lot more.

There were a fair amount of people who moaned about the money I earned in the Army - if they want to earn it (and you really do!!!) then nothing is stopping them from going for selection and dedicating their whole lives to it as that is in effect what you do. There is nothing to stop people from leaving the expensive vet practises in droves and voting with their feet if they feel that strongly.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Why should they be entitled to only make a living? I am in a caring profession and so many people think that it should be done for bare minimum because I care. I do care, very much, above all else BUT why should hard work and dedication not be rewarded? In my experience you get a better calibre of person entering such professions when they can actually live on their wages and there are some perks. Otherwise they choose avenues for their intelligence that also bring better financial reward. The more poorly paid caring jobs often have appear to have far less motivated staff doing them. Care should come first, then profit - but as far as I am concerned let them make a reasonable profit, many other caring professions make an awful lot more.
> 
> There were a fair amount of people who moaned about the money I earned in the Army - if they want to earn it (and you really do!!!) then nothing is stopping them from going for selection and dedicating their whole lives to it as that is in effect what you do. There is nothing to stop people from leaving the expensive vet practises in droves and voting with their feet if they feel that strongly.


Im not against a profit but when it is more about profit then the care then there is a problem. I don't expect them to make no money and live off of nothing but in the many years of taking the dogs to the vets you can see some extortion on the vets part as once you are in there they know you hve to pay, healthcare is different as you are paid a wage not making people buy their care and products for their care like a vet.

You can change vets if they are charging high prices, however sometimes all the other vets in your area and locally charge just as high a price as the one you are already with!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Im not against a profit but when it is more about profit then the care then there is a problem. I don't expect them to make no money and live off of nothing but in the many years of taking the dogs to the vets you can see some extortion on the vets part as once you are in there they know you hve to pay, healthcare is different as you are paid a wage not making people buy their care and products for their care like a vet.
> 
> You can change vets if they are charging high prices, however sometimes all the other vets in your area and locally charge just as high a price as the one you are with!


Public healthcare is different; private very often is not - and vets are providing private healthcare. I agree that profit must not come at the expense of care absolutely, but they are not mutually exclusive. I must have been exceptionally lucky over the years with the vets I've used for various pets as I have never felt that I've been the victim of extortion.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> If people are daft enough not to question a vet and pay through the nose for treatments that aren't required, you've got to question whether they've done their homework at all before getting a pet in the first place.


Hopefully this isn't to me as it was an ongoing condition he had.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Hopefully this isn't to me as it was an ongoing condition he had.


No, it was a general comment to anyone who is daft enough to support a vet who charges higher than average prices.

I've had very poor vets in the past, poor to the point where they have given incorrect dosages of a course of treatment and killed pets, so you learn to ask questions and also learn that vets are human and can and do make mistakes, and can be driven by profit as well. In combination with the advances in medical treatments, you need to have enough knowledge to weigh up the advantages, and possible disadvantages in progressing a course of treatment in a given situation, and that's not something many pet owners do, they often just take the word of their vet.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, it was a general comment to anyone who is daft enough to support a vet who charges higher than average prices.
> 
> I've had very poor vets in the past, poor to the point where they have given incorrect dosages of a course of treatment and killed pets, so you learn to ask questions and also learn that vets are human and can and do make mistakes, and can be driven by profit as well. In combination with the advances in medical treatments, you need to have enough knowledge to weigh up the advantages, and possible disadvantages in progressing a course of treatment in a given situation, and that's not something many pet owners do, they often just take the word of their vet.


Sometimes there is no alternative though and you can be stuck paying far too high a price for care as the alternative isn't great either.

I like to ask many questions too and ensure it is the best possible care for my dog and even though he may charge too much for somethings the head vet cares greatly for the animals checks and rechecks a dosage.


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## [email protected] (Nov 22, 2010)

I dont know if any of you read a thread I posted a few months ago about my Vizsla and the problems I had with quotes etc from my vet (who we had been with for many many years). I ended up shopping around for a very specific operation and took the time to investigate as much as I could about the required treatment and necessary piece of operating equipment. This particular dog I do not have insurance for as the premiums were ridiculous after he turned 9 so I put money away instead each month just incase. Anyway, the long and short of it was that I found a fantastic vet three miles away from my own vet who had the right equipment and expertise and ended up saving myself £2,120. I also discovered, through this exercise that the amount I had been paying out on heart tablets each month was totally unnecessary, but thats another story.

Vets do a fantastic job 90% of the time, thank goodness, and none of us would see our pets/four legged friends/replacement kids go without necessary treatment but it just goes to show that perhaps it pays to shop around from time to time when you hit the big stuff ??!! We all tend to stay with our vets through thick and thin and the amount of money that I have paid to my (now previous) vet over the years was a hell of a lot so I was sooooo disappointed with him when this whole situation arose and he was less than honest with me. I always thought he put the animals first but on this occasion the money came first.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I dont know if any of you read a thread I posted a few months ago about my Vizsla and the problems I had with quotes etc from my vet (who we had been with for many many years). I ended up shopping around for a very specific operation and took the time to investigate as much as I could about the required treatment and necessary piece of operating equipment. This particular dog I do not have insurance for as the premiums were ridiculous after he turned 9 so I put money away instead each month just incase. Anyway, the long and short of it was that I found a fantastic vet three miles away from my own vet who had the right equipment and expertise and ended up saving myself £2,120. I also discovered, through this exercise that the amount I had been paying out on heart tablets each month was totally unnecessary, but thats another story.
> 
> Vets do a fantastic job 90% of the time, thank goodness, and none of us would see our pets/four legged friends/replacement kids go without necessary treatment but it just goes to show that perhaps it pays to shop around from time to time when you hit the big stuff ??!! We all tend to stay with our vets through thick and thin and the amount of money that I have paid to my (now previous) vet over the years was a hell of a lot so I was sooooo disappointed with him when this whole situation arose and he was less than honest with me. I always thought he put the animals first but on this occasion the money came first.


This is exactly the point I have been trying to make. Now that extra £2,120 would have meant having their pet pts for many people. Yet, some just pay it, thereby paving the way for the rest of us.

I use 3 vets now, and would do exactly the same as you if it wasnt covered on the insurance - shop around!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I am very happy with my vet and his charges but I know of many people that get not so good vet care at higher cost. I had one of my owners tell me her Chis spay was over 200 pounds....disgraceful....whereas a pup from the same litter was spayed and chipped for under 150. The one that was cheaper was in London..so its not as if the vets overheads were more. 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that some vets are on the con...charge too much for meds and treatment and are getting filthy rich in the process.

Not everybody has access to transport to "shop around" so are stuck with their local vet.

And for those that are so perfect as to know they are always going to have funds for vet treatment.....try to jump off you soap boxes and think of those who have lost jobs...had partners leave them....become suddenly ill and unable to work...all sorts of reasons that their lifestyle and funding has changed. Nobody can see into the future. Try jumping in somebody elses shoes...it might do you good. 

I have all the funding I need at the moment for my pets...and insurance...but Im not so 
arrogant and pig headed to think that will ALWAYS be the case. Life can be a bitch


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Sometimes there is no alternative though and you can be stuck paying far too high a price for care as the alternative isn't great either.
> 
> I like to ask many questions too and ensure it is the best possible care for my dog and even though he may charge too much for somethings the head vet cares greatly for the animals checks and rechecks a dosage.


How are you stuck paying too high a price? If you're not happy, shop around, and find a vet you are happy with. I've been with probably six vets over the last six years for various reasons, including moving home, but also due to changes as I haven't been happy with the service. The last time I changed, my vet lectured me about the need to progesterone test, it was the last telephone conversation we had. I then got on the internet, and found a BVA endorsed vet (there was one slightly closer, which I may use in the future if I feel the need for a second opinion) but there were loads to choose from. I have a ten mile drive to my vet, which I think is worth the drive.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> How are you stuck paying too high a price? If you're not happy, shop around, and find a vet you are happy with. I've been with probably six vets over the last six years for various reasons, including moving home, but also due to changes as I haven't been happy with the service. The last time I changed, my vet lectured me about the need to progesterone test, it was the last telephone conversation we had. I then got on the internet, and found a BVA endorsed vet (there was one slightly closer, which I may use in the future if I feel the need for a second opinion) but there were loads to choose from. I have a ten mile drive to my vet, which I think is worth the drive.


Not everybody drives......


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

chichi said:


> Not everybody drives......


There's a bus stop 50 yards from my house, if I wanted the best service for my pets, I'd ensure I had the option to get to the best vets, surely that's what the post is about?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> How are you stuck paying too high a price? If you're not happy, shop around, and find a vet you are happy with. I've been with probably six vets over the last six years for various reasons, including moving home, but also due to changes as I haven't been happy with the service. The last time I changed, my vet lectured me about the need to progesterone test, it was the last telephone conversation we had. I then got on the internet, and found a BVA endorsed vet (there was one slightly closer, which I may use in the future if I feel the need for a second opinion) but there were loads to choose from. I have a ten mile drive to my vet, which I think is worth the drive.


As chichi has said i do not have transport to go anywhere else, it is the best vet in a 10 mile radius if not the cheapest.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> As chichi has said i do not have transport to go anywhere ele, it is the best vet in a 10 mile radius if not the cheapest.


I never said you had to be able to drive, all the vets I've researched within the local ten mile radius live within easy access of a main bus route.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Vet bills are crazy nowadays but everything is crazy nowadays! 

As for people automatically saying, have insurance, we did for Sabre, it started off at £10 a month, we didnt claim for 11 years and yet in that last year they wanted £45 a month! How unfair can it be?! We claimed the last year for his arthritis and then mum and dad couldnt afford the insurance and the price of the rimadyl (that they wouldnt cover anymore, if we had the premium policy it was £60 a month) so had to cancel the insurance and hope that it wouldn't be needed. 
We actually had to have the conversation that, if he did need something big that the insurance would cover, at his age would we have put him through it anyway, we had to weigh up the chance that, without insurance, that choice would be taken away from us, he would have to be left with it (lumps etc, if not causing pain) or pts.
When they got Sabre both mum and dad were able to work, my mum can only do very limited hours now and so the money just wasnt available anymore. 
We didnt have to make that decision in the end, insurance or not, he wasnt able to be saved but what if the rising price of vet bills, and insurance combined had made us HAVE to make that decision


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I never said you had to be able to drive, all the vets I've researched within the local ten mile radius live within easy access of a main bus route.


Well some dogs won't go on a bus and if they are severely ill as i have had one dog who appeared to of had a stroke one morning, you can't really take them on a bus and need somewhere that you can access.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm sorry but I do not believe using 3 vets is in the best interest to your pets health, there needs to be continuity. 

Vets have to make a profit, that is life. If you are going to vets who are continually charging over the odds in comparison to other vets in the same area that can offer the same level of care, then you need to seriously considering changing vets. BUT you need to ensure you're getting the same service, for example the cheaper surgeries may not have qualified VNs working for them, who do an amazing job caring for sick pets, and very often nursing them back to health. If you're happy to make that sacrifice, then that is your decision. The £2k more expensive op seems, I agree, ridiculous. What procedure was it, if you don't mind me asking?

The problem with these article is they tarnish everyone with the same brush. A number of practices across the country charge extortionate fees, and that then means all vets and veterinary staff are money grabbing, un caring individuals. There ARE vets who care and do not overcharge, and are kind and considerate to those who are struggling, just because you havent experienced them does not mean they do not exist and it is demeaning to all of them that their name and profession is being tarnished. 

Next time one of you rings the vet on call at 2am cos your dog has been sick every day for 2 weeks and it's just tonight it's become a problem. Just remember that vet had probably been at work all day, been on call all night, possibly just got into bed at 1am after a calving and may have to get up at 6am for a full days work the following day. Do they charge you for waking them up and giving you advice. Likely Not.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There's a bus stop 50 yards from my house, if I wanted the best service for my pets, I'd ensure I had the option to get to the best vets, surely that's what the post is about?


Thats great....unfortunately not so easy for everybody to use public transport. Then there are those with issues (the dogs not their owners) who would find public transport a problem. Its easy to just think of oneself but very often there are those owners in a less fortunate situation....


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Well some dogs won't go on a bus and if they are severely ill as i have had one dog who appeared to of had a stroke one morning, you can't really take them on a bus and need somewhere that you can access.


Then surely if you don't drive, you'd make sure you have a vet that would do home visits?



Chippet said:


> I'm sorry but I do not believe using 3 vets is in the best interest to your pets health, there needs to be continuity.
> 
> Vets have to make a profit, that is life. If you are going to vets who are continually charging over the odds in comparison to other vets in the same area that can offer the same level of care, then you need to seriously considering changing vets. BUT you need to ensure you're getting the same service, for example the cheaper surgeries may not have qualified VNs working for them, who do an amazing job caring for sick pets, and very often nursing them back to health. If you're happy to make that sacrifice, then that is your decision. The £2k more expensive op seems, I agree, ridiculous. What procedure was it, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> ...


Well exactly, and then ask them if they mind driving out to your house because you can't get your dog to them!



chichi said:


> Thats great....unfortunately not so easy for everybody to use public transport. Then there are those with issues (the dogs not their owners) who would find public transport a problem. Its easy to just think of oneself but very often there are those owners in a less fortunate situation....


My less than fortunate situation is that I live in a rural situation, I can and do drive, but I could easily live within 50ft of a veterinary surgery and just choose to use them for ease of use. Really, this argument is nothing to do with the original argument, if you have researched pet ownership, and want to have a choice of vets you will have made some arrangements to ensure you can get said pet to the vet of your choice. Or do you think it's ok to just use the vet you can get to, whether they are the best vet available? Or not?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I never said you had to be able to drive, all the vets I've researched within the local ten mile radius live within easy access of a main bus route.


I've always found it intriguing, I cant think of a better word (being able to drive, having a car, and no bus routes really near us anyway) that people need to walk their animals or take them on a bus to the vets. I've always wondered what people do if their pet is unable to walk to the bus stop/vets and they have no transport? Call the vet out I suppose? I know that for the last year with Sabre, with the arthritis in his legs, he wouldnt have been able to go on a bus or walk just 5-10 mins to the vets, so what happens when he had to go once a month or whatever, does the vet have to come out each time? How are they weighed etc? 
I am only asking these questions purely because I have never been in this situation and I am actually very curious (never really had anyone to ask) I can start a new thread rather than hijack this one if needed


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hazyreality said:


> I've always found it intriguing, I cant think of a better word (being able to drive, having a car, and no bus routes really near us anyway) that people need to walk their animals or take them on a bus to the vets. I've always wondered what people do if their pet is unable to walk to the bus stop/vets and they have no transport? Call the vet out I suppose? I know that for the last year with Sabre, with the arthritis in his legs, he wouldnt have been able to go on a bus or walk just 5-10 mins to the vets, so what happens when he had to go once a month or whatever, does the vet have to come out each time? How are they weighed etc?
> I am only asking these questions purely because I have never been in this situation and I am actually very curious (never really had anyone to ask) I can start a new thread rather than hijack this one if needed


I know for a fact my vets make house calls, and I could ask them to come out to me on rounds, I choose to go in to take the girls in to see a vet usually because it suits me and timings, rather than anything else. They've also been very good letting me take youngsters and pups in to socialise them in the past.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

hazyreality said:


> I've always found it intriguing, I cant think of a better word (being able to drive, having a car, and no bus routes really near us anyway) that people need to walk their animals or take them on a bus to the vets. I've always wondered what people do if their pet is unable to walk to the bus stop/vets and they have no transport? Call the vet out I suppose? I know that for the last year with Sabre, with the arthritis in his legs, he wouldnt have been able to go on a bus or walk just 5-10 mins to the vets, so what happens when he had to go once a month or whatever, does the vet have to come out each time? How are they weighed etc?
> I am only asking these questions purely because I have never been in this situation and I am actually very curious (never really had anyone to ask) I can start a new thread rather than hijack this one if needed


My friend with a rather large GSD was in that situation - no car, GSD that could barely walk, rural location. I used to take them so I am guessing that friends and relatives are heavily relied upon. Pet taxis maybe?


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think insurance plays a big part. 

Two years ago, Jake cut his side open. I wanted to take him to his usual vet but it was a Saturday afternoon, and they were shut. I was in a panic, and OHs dad was driving me around so we went to the closest vet. It is a practice I don't like but I had little choice. 

The FIRST question they asked was if he was insured... when I said yes, they happily took me into the consultation room. He had to get knocked out, wound cleaned, and stitched up. When I went to pick him up, I noticed a lump at the bottom of the wound (it went diagonally down his side). I asked what it was, and was told it was just a bit of swelling. 

Well, actually no. It was fluid, and it caused an infection... his wound, which had begun healing well, ripped right open again. He had to go back in, go back under anesthetic and get a drain put in. I have since heard from quite a few people, that because of the type of wound it was, it should never have been stitched up with no drain in it in the first place! 

Then, they told me he had to go back under anesthetic to get the drain out... again, since then I have been told that is a load of bull, and that they shouldn't need to be put under to get a drain simply taken out. I don't know if that is true, but that is what I have been told. I do not have any other experience with this to know. 

IMO, they screwed up by not putting a drain in a wound that most definitely should have had a drain in it. But, who paid the £1050 bill?? Me and the insurance company. I got a breakdown of the costs, and well, it is utter ridiculous the prices they charged. I will never go there again, no matter what! Not because of the money, but because they gave my dog an extra 2 weeks of healing, causing him to have to go through the risk of going under anesthetic at least one time he shouldn't have and maybe even two, the pain he went through getting his wound messed with again etc etc. 

Then, I have the vet I actually use who, when Jake was ill with his allergies, attempted to treat him for everything under the sun. Putting him on and off steroids, continuously giving him ear drops etc etc... I kept telling them that I was positive it was an allergy but they ignored me... well I was right  It was the head vet who finally agreed with me, on my first time seeing her, so now I will ONLY see her. I love the way she is with the dogs, and she is better than the rest of them. So, I am happy with seeing her and have no problems continuing to see her.

I understand vets are a business and have outgoing bills etc, but I still think it is ridiculous what they charge as a whole. The extra cost they add on to medication, £20+ just to walk in the door etc. I wouldn't be without insurance so I don't need to worry about the costs in that way, but I still do not think it is right.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> My friend with a rather large GSD was in that situation - no car, GSD that could barely walk, rural location. I used to take them so I am guessing that friends and relatives are heavily relied upon. Pet taxis maybe?


I am insured as a pet taxi (with my pet sitting insurance), so I guess so, but there are very few around here, I think I am one of 2, maybe 3 (one of those doesnt do big dogs) and at home we are at least 3 miles from any vet. I just think worst case senario of someone who doenst have any family or no family that drive.

I have a customer and its just her and her daughter, neither drive and the vets is right the other side of town. She said one day she had to walk one of her big dogs there and she was stopping all the time to wee (had a bladder problem) so she was getting impatient - come on, were gonna be late etc - and when they did the tests when she got there, her system was shutting down and she had to be pts. The lady said she felt so guilty that the poor dog had to walk there when she was obviously in a bad way  She said she went with a dog and came back with a lead  Also if she had wanted to bury the dog at home, how could she have, I cant imagine anyone doing transport for a dead dog? (other than me if asked I suppose!)


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

An interesting thread and lots of interesting comments. I think part of the problem lies at the insurance companies door. Insurance cover has led vets to treat more conditions, sometimes quite "heroically". Treatments and surgery which would never have been performed commercially without insurance cover. I have big problem, ethically, with pets in the rich west recieving care which children in most countries in the world can't access. I'm not even talking about the third world, here. In some european coutries there are no MRI scanners, yet in Glasgow there are 2 MRI scanners at the vet school, 1 3T clinical imaging unit at Glasgow Uni and a SPECT scanner at the Wellcome Surgical Institute. The coutry my daughter lives in (in Europe) has none of these for _humans _

I don't know what the answer is, but I feel uncomfortable about the whole issue.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lozzibear said:


> I think insurance plays a big part.
> 
> Two years ago, Jake cut his side open. I wanted to take him to his usual vet but it was a Saturday afternoon, and they were shut. I was in a panic, and OHs dad was driving me around so we went to the closest vet. It is a practice I don't like but I had little choice.
> 
> ...


Current vets have never asked about the insurance status, they have just got on and done what was needed, and then asked for payment, and even though I've always paid in full up front, I know they accept payment over however long you agree.

I had an appointment on Tuesday of last week to have Rhuna's booster's done, I arrived with a pre booked appointment, and then stipulated she didn't have lepto as part of her boosters, as she's never had it. They not only phoned round to find a lepto free booster, they brought it over for free, never charged me for the initial consultation, had an out of hours meeting between the vets to discuss my concerns, contacted Pfizer to discuss my concerns, and contacted the person who has graduated top of the Glasgow Veterinary school to discuss my concerns, and asked me to forward details which they will consider. Bill came to less than £30, which is why I will argue the case if you find a good vet, they are worth their weight in gold.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

hazyreality said:


> I am insured as a pet taxi (with my pet sitting insurance), so I guess so, but there are very few around here, I think I am one of 2, maybe 3 (one of those doesnt do big dogs) and at home we are at least 3 miles from any vet. I just think worst case senario of someone who doenst have any family or no family that drive.
> 
> I have a customer and its just her and her daughter, neither drive and the vets is right the other side of town. She said one day she had to walk one of her big dogs there and she was stopping all the time to wee (had a bladder problem) so she was getting impatient - come on, were gonna be late etc - and when they did the tests when she got there, her system was shutting down and she had to be pts. The lady said she felt so guilty that the poor dog had to walk there when she was obviously in a bad way  She said she went with a dog and came back with a lead  Also if she had wanted to bury the dog at home, how could she have, I cant imagine anyone doing transport for a dead dog? (other than me if asked I suppose!)


That is very sad indeed, poor woman - I did transport my friend's dead GSD but I am sure a taxi wouldn't.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Chippet said:


> I'm sorry but I do not believe using 3 vets is in the best interest to your pets health, there needs to be continuity.
> 
> Vets have to make a profit, that is life. If you are going to vets who are continually charging over the odds in comparison to other vets in the same area that can offer the same level of care, then you need to seriously considering changing vets. BUT you need to ensure you're getting the same service, for example the cheaper surgeries may not have qualified VNs working for them, who do an amazing job caring for sick pets, and very often nursing them back to health. If you're happy to make that sacrifice, then that is your decision. The £2k more expensive op seems, I agree, ridiculous. What procedure was it, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> ...


Please dont suggest that by shopping around, I dont put the best interests of my animals first! When it comes to vaccinations, flea and worming treatments, then its hardly rocket science or a matter of life and death.

Also, if my vet was asking for thousands of pounds for a procedure not covered on the insurance, then please do not try and say that saving over £2,000 is not in the animals best interest. You are implying that you should just pay whatever, even if you are being charged thousands over the odds.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> I've always found it intriguing, I cant think of a better word (being able to drive, having a car, and no bus routes really near us anyway) that people need to walk their animals or take them on a bus to the vets. I've always wondered what people do if their pet is unable to walk to the bus stop/vets and they have no transport? Call the vet out I suppose? I know that for the last year with Sabre, with the arthritis in his legs, he wouldnt have been able to go on a bus or walk just 5-10 mins to the vets, so what happens when he had to go once a month or whatever, does the vet have to come out each time? How are they weighed etc?
> I am only asking these questions purely because I have never been in this situation and I am actually very curious (never really had anyone to ask) I can start a new thread rather than hijack this one if needed


I don't drive and two of my dogs go to a vets that's two bus rides away! We have a local dog taxi service that you can call 24/7 if you have an emergency.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Then surely if you don't drive, you'd make sure you have a vet that would do home visits?


Yes I make sure of it but he goes in a pet taxi or I have a good standing with my local 24hr cab firm who always have a cab that can have a dog in it.

However I don't think think this thread is about my transportation to my vets.

But if your vet is ready to do house calls i wonder why they didn't when your dog was in labour as from the breeders i have known this is the most common use of the house call so as not to have to travel in to the vets with a birthing bitch.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes I make sure of it but he goes in a pet taxi or I have a good standing with my local 24hr cab firm who always have a cab that can have a dog in it.
> 
> However I don't think think this thread is about my transportation to my vets.
> 
> But if your vet is ready to do house calls i wonder why they didn't when your dog was in labour as from the breeders i have known this is the most common use of the house call so as not to have to travel in to the vets with a birthing bitch.


Very simple really, is it better to do a c-section in someone's house, or in a veterinary surgery?

Or are you questioning whether she was ready for a c-section or not? If so, I hope you have some good footage of when she lost her mucous plug. Of course my preference was for a c-section on a Sunday morning because I just love paying for things that aren't necessary, what a ridiculous bl**dy question!! I had the vets and several assistance on call for over 36 hours, as well as many experienced breeders, including my OH, who agreed with every single step I took with Tau. Nice of you to criticise without even knowing me or my bitch, or the people involved.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Ang2 said:


> Also, if my vet was asking for thousands of pounds for a procedure not covered on the insurance, then please do not try and say that saving over £2,000 is not in the animals best interest. You are implying that you should just pay whatever, even if you are being charged thousands over the odds.


I said the 2k extra was _ridiculous_, meaning that difference in charges was ridiculous. I used the words 'I agree'. I wanted to know what procedure had been done so I could gauge how much they were _overcharged_ by (i assume it was you, I can't remember who originally wrote that post)?

ETA, how did I imply you should pay 'thousands over the odds' by writing 'The £2k more expensive op seems, I agree, ridiculous'. Please do not put words into my mouth.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Very simple really, is it better to do a c-section in someone's house, or in a veterinary surgery?
> 
> Or are you questioning whether she was ready for a c-section or not? If so, I hope you have some good footage of when she lost her mucous plug. Of course my preference was for a c-section on a Sunday morning because I just love paying for things that aren't necessary, what a ridiculous bl**dy question!! I had the vets and several assistance on call for over 36 hours, as well as many experienced breeders, including my OH, who agreed with every single step I took with Tau. Nice of you to criticise without even knowing me or my bitch, or the people involved.


Actually I wasn't, I just meant that even if you can get house calls they may not come and obviously they wouldn't perform surgery in your home but when she was starting labour they would come then instead of taking them in to check they are in labour.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Ya know, s*d it, why should I put up with people questioning my own personal decisions, people never spent 36 hours watching Tau from losing her mucous plug, spending pretty much every waking hour seeing her in signs of labour, but not quite getting there, and then coming to the realisation she needed help 36 hours later, and then judge me because I can bl**dy well drive her to the vets, chuff off! I'm outta here!!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Chippet said:


> I said the 2k extra was ridiculous, meaning that difference in charges was ridiculous. I used the words 'I agree'. Please don't put words into my mouth. I wanted to know what procedure had been done so I could gauge how much they were overcharged by (i assume it was you, I can't remember who originally wrote that post)


No it wasnt me!

You said that you didnt think it was in the best interests of the animal to have 3 vets. Therefore, naturally assumed that you were implying that the person who was nearly overcharged by £2k should have stuck with that vet and paid it, for continuity?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Very simple really, is it better to do a c-section in someone's house, or in a veterinary surgery?
> 
> Or are you questioning whether she was ready for a c-section or not? If so, I hope you have some good footage of when she lost her mucous plug. Of course my preference was for a c-section on a Sunday morning because I just love paying for things that aren't necessary, what a ridiculous bl**dy question!! I had the vets and several assistance on call for over 36 hours, as well as many experienced breeders, including my OH, who agreed with every single step I took with Tau. Nice of you to criticise without even knowing me or my bitch, or the people involved.


I dont think you were being criticised. But you may be feeling judged by your reaction...probably similar to those people struggling with hiked up vet fees who are maybe out of work or struggling (unexpectedly) to make ends meet and basically being told by some here that they were irresponsible in having their "luxury" pet in the first place.....


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Ang2 said:


> No it wasnt me!
> 
> You said that you didnt think it was in the best interests of the animal to have 3 vets. Therefore, naturally assumed that you were implying that the person who was nearly overcharged by £2k should have stuck with that vet and paid it, for continuity?


Yes I said it wasn't in the best interests to have 3 vets in the first paragraph. And I still maintain this.

I then separated it from my next statement which goes on to say that if vets are continually overcharging and you can get the same service cheaper elsewhere, then you should change vets!! But change vets for ALL the animals care, not chop and change, i dont believe a vet can provide you with good care, when they do not have access to all the pets treatment and history. I _*agreed*_ that the 2k extra was _*ridiculous*_


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

chichi said:


> I dont think you were being criticised. But you may be feeling judged by your reaction...probably similar to those people struggling with hiked up vet fees who are maybe out of work or struggling (unexpectedly) to make ends meet and basically being told by some here that they were irresponsible in having their "luxury" pet in the first place.....


I don't think anyone who has unexpectedly found themselves unable to pay has been criticised - that can happen to anyone. Do I think that taking on animals _knowing_ _full well_ that you are not in any position to afford their care is irresponsible? Absolutely. I wanted a RR for about a decade before I got one - didn't have one not because of financial but lifestyle constraints - had I come on here and outlined my circumstances I am sure I would have been told overwhelmingly that to get one would be selfish and not in the best interests of the animal. Kilo is family - but, yes, a luxury.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I have read and re-read my post and if anyone it was your vet who was being critisised and not you.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

chichi said:


> And for those that are so perfect as to know they are always going to have funds for vet treatment.....try to jump off you soap boxes and think of those who have lost jobs...had partners leave them....become suddenly ill and unable to work...all sorts of reasons that their lifestyle and funding has changed. Nobody can see into the future. Try jumping in somebody elses shoes...it might do you good.
> 
> I have all the funding I need at the moment for my pets...and insurance...but Im not so
> arrogant and pig headed to think that will ALWAYS be the case. Life can be a bitch


I'm not sure if this this aimed at me. However I DO know life isn't perfect and lifestyles can change. My boyfriend has just finished battling leukaemia and has not worked for neatly 10months, I had to support us both, on a low wage (lower than normal as I was working less hours) and I no point did I have to sacrifice my dogs care - and it isn't cheap as she is atopic, but she is insured. I sacrificed others aspects of my life instead. So DO NOT get on your high horse and suggest people don't know how life can be a b*tch when you know nothing about them. :mad2:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

chichi said:


> I dont think you were being criticised. But you may be feeling judged by your reaction...probably similar to those people struggling with hiked up vet fees who are maybe out of work or struggling (unexpectedly) to make ends meet and basically being told by some here that they were irresponsible in having their "luxury" pet in the first place.....


Judging by the reaction I got from posting about my experiences previously, yes, I do feel judged, not one person on this forum was in the kitchen when Tau lost her mucous plug. Not one person has the right to question why I chose to go for the c-section unless they were here with me, and I don't see many of those here posting.

One important difference, I chose to put Tau in the position of possibly being in whelp, I chose to take on those extra costs, and to be perfectly honest, as a dog owner, I choose to take on extra responsibility, and extra costs, and do what I need to to make sure I get the best care possible for my dogs. Yes, it's nice being able to drive my dogs to the vets, but I pay extra for it, I have car costs, insurance costs, MoT costs that others don't pay if they use public transport or a dog taxi.

If you choose to own an animal, you take on responsibility for that animal, does that responsibility end because you can't drive? I never knew driving was a prerequisite for pet ownership? Or that you couldln't choose a vet because of lack of driving. Thinking back to before I could drive, I still chose the vets I used, and went on the bus with my pets whenever necessary to ensure they got treatment as and when required. As a 14 year old, surely anyone else could do the same?!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I don't think anyone who has unexpectedly found themselves unable to pay has been criticised - that can happen to anyone. Do I think that taking on animals _knowing_ _full well_ that you are not in any position to afford their care is irresponsible? Absolutely. I wanted a RR for about a decade before I got one - didn't have one not because of financial but lifestyle constraints - had I come on here and outlined my circumstances I am sure I would have been told overwhelmingly that to get one would be selfish and not in the best interests of the animal. Kilo is family - but, yes, a luxury.


Some dogs can live for 20 years. How can you say that you will always be able to afford vet fees or insurance? Nobody can know this for sure. Some people find themselves on unexpected hard times, and the first thing that has to go is insurance.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> If you choose to own an animal, you take on responsibility for that animal, does that responsibility end because you can't drive? I never knew driving was a prerequisite for pet ownership? Or that you couldln't choose a vet because of lack of driving. Thinking back to before I could drive, I still chose the vets I used, and went on the bus with my pets whenever necessary to ensure they got treatment as and when required. As a 14 year old, surely anyone else could do the same?!


I chose a vet that was good in a 10 mile radius of me, at least my dog gets vet care, there are many that can and do not.

I cannot drive through medical reasons, I get transport to a vet.

If the best vet you knew was 100 miles away would you travel 100 miles everytime they had something wrong? I doubt many would but they are still responsible owners.

Responsible means getting your dog treated when they need it to the bet of their owners ability.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Ang2 said:


> Some dogs can live for 20 years. How can you say that you will always be able to afford vet fees or insurance? Nobody can know this for sure. Some people find themselves on unexpected hard times, and the first thing that has to go is insurance.


I can't - that is why in my very first post I said *I have every sympathy for those who have animals, fall on hard times and then struggle*. In my last post I said *I don't think anyone who has unexpectedly found themselves unable to pay has been criticised - that can happen to anyone. Do I think that taking on animals knowing full well that you are not in any position to afford their care is irresponsible? Absolutely.*

Not sure how I can be much clearer?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> Some dogs can live for 20 years. How can you say that you will always be able to afford vet fees or insurance? Nobody can know this for sure. Some people find themselves on unexpected hard times, and the first thing that has to go is insurance.


Very true, even investment bankers lately have found their money gone and basically homeless. They would have thought they would be financially safe for the rest of their lives.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Haven't read this thread all the way through so don't know if it's been mentioned, but I have noticed a tendancy to for questionable investigations and treatments to prolong the life of pets as much as they can. I've heard of dogs being put through repeated major operations to treat various problems. It's understandable when it is your pet, but I do worry sometimes that because we are prolonging our pets lives for our own benefit we end up putting them through extensive treatment when it may be kinder to let them go.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Please refrain from personal argument - this thread is being closed to be checked.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Reopened but if the personal arguments continue it will be closed permanently.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I don't get it...

If I want my car repaired I pay a mechanic.. I pay for his expertise.
If I want a bathroom fitting, I pay a plumber. I pay for his expertise
If my animal is ill. I pay a vet. I pay for his experise...
They are all in business offering a service I can not provide for myself.They studied and learnt how to do that job. I look for the best and then pay them. 

Simple really isn't it IMVHO


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

northnsouth said:


> I don't get it...
> 
> If I want my car repaired I pay a mechanic.. I pay for his expertise.
> If I want a bathroom fitting, I pay a plumber. I pay for his expertise
> ...


If your plumber charges you so muuch that you couldnt afford it no one dies. Theres the difference.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok gas fitter or electrician...


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

northnsouth said:


> Ok gas fitter or electrician...


So, would you just pay whatever the first person quotes ie mechanic tells you its going to cost £1,000 for your service?


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

*^ ^ ^*


northnsouth said:


> I don't get it... If I want my car repaired I pay a mechanic.. I pay for his expertise. If I want a bathroom fitting, I pay a plumber. I pay for his expertise If my animal is ill. I pay a vet. I pay for his experise... They are all in business offering a service I can not provide for myself.They studied and learnt how to do that job.* I look for the best and then pay them. *Simple really isn't it IMVHO


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

northnsouth said:


>


Yeah, but the mechanic that charges £1,000 is the best mechanic in town!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

No the best mechanic is the one that repairs my car, the one who has the best reputation. If he happens to be the most expensive as well then that is what I have to pay. If I can not afford it I do not have a car.
Obviously I can not do this with my pets, *so I have insurance *so I can pay the vet what he charges. If the time came, god forbid, when I can not afford insurance or vet bills then I would have to consider my animals first, and that may not be living with me..


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Chippet said:


> I'm not sure if this this aimed at me. However I DO know life isn't perfect and lifestyles can change. My boyfriend has just finished battling leukaemia and has not worked for neatly 10months, I had to support us both, on a low wage (lower than normal as I was working less hours) and I no point did I have to sacrifice my dogs care - and it isn't cheap as she is atopic, but she is insured. I sacrificed others aspects of my life instead. So DO NOT get on your high horse and suggest people don't know how life can be a b*tch when you know nothing about them. :mad2:


I did give a detailed reply but it seems to have disappeared

I didnt say anything about your life but from the holier than thou attitude thought you were quick to judge others. YOU dont know other peoples lives..whether they have KIDS TO FEED...whether their partners have lost the battle with illness and maybe bringing up kids as a lone parent.....oh but they should pay the pet insurance or they are irresponsible. Weve all been through tough times....that doesnt give us the right to judge others as irresponsible because they UNEXPECTEDLY cant afford to keep up the pet insurance

No high horses here.....just somebody that has lived long enough to know that judging people for things that are out of their control STINKS!


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## sligy (Jul 3, 2012)

These vets have endured years doing a degree, so they probably have student debt to pay off, they work long hours doing any type of task!
They have to know about a number of different animals and some can be dangerous! This is not a risk free job!
Not only that they have all the overheads of running there practice, medical supply's cant come cheap, and neither does property any-more!
They have to supply people to run the desk and office, run cars and vans to do house visits and vet's nurses wages!
Yes vets fee's are crazy money, and insurance is getting pricey but i know i would rather have the insurance than risk a massive vets bills. I think the vets are well worth the money they are a wealth of information that at the end of the day could be the difference between the life and death of a much loved pet! (when you find a good one)


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

The grim reality is that a chunk of the fees we are paying is made up of paying for incredibly expensive machines that go 'ping'. Many of the machines, we will never need, but some are leased, others so expensive, that not just those who use the machine pay for it. We all have the cost added to the bill, as a form of fee for 'being able to use it if we ever need it'. Many of the machines aren't used a lot, but the costs for repayments are lumped on the few people did use it and then the fee added on, to 'cover costs' to all customers. There is a very good case for vet practices being more specialised. Those who specialise in heart work getting more work, more experience, more use from their specialist equipment. Similarly osteo work, etc. There is a very good case for some vets just doing shots, desexings, simple breaks, draining wounds, stitches, etc.erc., and then giving people referrals to those with the expensive equip.

My own vet refuses to buy a lot of expensive equipment, and will say and recommend other vets for complicated work. She has very cheap rates and the majority of pensioners and small private rescuers go to her. She is 60ish and I live in dread of someone killing her in a car accident. She can still get me flea treatment, desexings, stitch injuries, etc and I rarely need to see any other vet. When I do, it is a total shock!

I have gone to a vet when she was away, and I have to say, I have never felt so offended at the commercial greed I observed, I went there only as it was an emergency, and have sworn I would never go there again. I have 3 vets, all about 30/40 kms away. One only part time, and my vet is about 120 kms away, so close to 250 km round trip. No vet is perfect, but expensive certainly does not point to good or even compassionate care.


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## Dave2083 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm probably wasting my breath here but here goes.
I am a vet practicing in Australia, I have been in small animal practice for 6 years now. 
Yes I agree, veterinary bills can be expensive, as can car repair bills, human dental bills, a holiday on an island. But what is it that vet bills are being compared to that some consider almost any bill by their vet expensive. Mostly it's being compared to human medical bills because that's about the only comparable reference people can make. And it's an unfair comparison. Human medical bills are MASSIVELY subsidised by governements and/or provided free of charge by public, tax-payer funded health systems. Other bills are paid for by private health care providers where an excess charge is paid for (as little as $100) and the rest of cost of treatment is covered. 

I hear of people saying that they can go to their doctor and get a consult for free or for $30 AUD and get antibiotics and pay $3. What they don't realise is that the actual fee for that consult is probably $100 AUD and the antiboitics $30 AUD which is all repaid by the governement. If properly compared, human medical bills for surgical procedures are up to 10-20 times more expensive for an equivalent procedure in a dog. Countries with public health systems should be damn thankful that it's provided. Just ask someone in America who doesn't have an employer funded health plan how expensive medical bills are there, there is no subsidsed public health system there. 

There is also this perception that vets are earning a mountain of money from the fees they're charging and that the public are being grossly overcharged. In Australia, the award wage for vets is between $32,000 - $100,000/year depending on level of experience (I currently earn $75,000/year after 6 years in small animal practice, I'm lucky to have a great boss who pays their staff what they're worth). Most vets on average are earning approximately $50-$65,000 AUD, DO NOT own their own clinic, work long hours and are not paid overtime. Registered specialists can earn up to $250,000 AUD/year, after 5-7 years uni, 3 years in general practice minimum, 3 years residency program paying between 20-35,000/year and fingers crossed they pass their felowship exams after that period to specialise, they deserve it. Compare that wage to other medical professionals, and other professions, and you will find vets are one of the lowest paid professions in the world. $100,000/year is a good wage, but it's not a sniff on what human doctors, dentists, even Real Estate agents get paid, and yet no one's questioning their level of pay and what they charge.

Finally, what makes up a $100 vet bill (say $55 consult and $45 treatment)? Straight up, the average profit margin for clinics in Australia is between 6-12%, most earning about 8%. So before you throw a fit about your $100 vet bill, consider that just $8 of that is pure profit. Most normal businesses will declare bankrupt if they're making less than 30% annual profit. The other $92 goes towards paying:
- the vet for their time and expertise
- the nurse that booked your appointment for you and checked you in
- power, water, phone, internet bills the clinic incurs to provide a health service to your pet
- the drugs provided to the vet by a supplier, in turn supplied by the company that manufacters the drug
- the equipment the clinic uses to diagnose and treat diseases
I could go on. 

The disparity between prices for similar procedures between clinics comes down to the individual clinic's expenses and the level of care provided and what's used with that procedure. Generally, a cost of a procedure will be higher if there are more vets and nurses at a clinic, with more experience, because they will get paid more for their experience, and a larger clinic costs more money to run. The rest of the difference depends on what's used. One clinic who charges say $300 for a dog spey may also run pre anaesthetic blood work, put all speys on IV fluids, use modern, up-to-date anaesthetic drugs and equipment, provide pain relief afterwards. Another clinic that charges $250 may forego pre anaesthetic blood work but still provide the same level of care and technology as the first clinic. 

If you're getting a desexing for $100-150, it may be from a one vet clinic with minimal overheads (less staff to pay, smaller clinic to run) that can again provide the same level of care as above, they're just cheaper because of less overheads. However there are clinics out there that will undercharge just to attract business, and the level of care your pet will receive may not be as good as a more 'expensive clinic' putting your pet's life at risk or increasing the chances of complications arrising from certain treatments. If you're shopping around for better prices, you really should be asking what you're getting for your dollar, what the cost of that surgery or trement provides, that's how you should compare prices, not to an entirely different industry. 

As it stands, vets are not filthy rich with mansions in Monte Carlo who trade their Ferraris in every 3 years for a new model. We're getting around in basic cars and living in just your average 2 bedroom apartment or 4 bedroom house. Genuinely, vets are not out to rip people off, we're trying to provide a health service to keep people's pets healthy. As with any unexpected expense, that can be an inconvenience. And yes, prices are increasing, as they are for most other things in life. And I won't argue that on a low income, combined with other costs of living and bills, a vet bill can be difficult to accommodate on top of everything else. I just wanted to point out the truth about how clinics work and what the industry's like from someone who is actually in the industry. Not provided by some journalist who's just looking to skip over the real facts, potentially with a personal adgenda and start some controversy. Do what you will with this information.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

First, thank you for sticking your head above the parapet, Dave1983. I believe your first post? so welcome to PF, and hello from another Ozzie. I hope you had more reason to call in than just this topic. Anyone with any problems with mals, huskies in particular, behaviour, Sled Dog Hotel is seriously, a great person to contact but you have to get up 25 posts, to pm. Just in case you have anyone with major problems.

I think the resentment is not so much comparing human costs. There was a lot of spitting going on earlier, but as I recall, people hate the differences in fees, the mark up on drugs. I would have no problem with paying perhaps twice the price for drug I can buy online, retail. for vet products, but if it is 5 times the cost... That makes me very annoyed. I can buy some syringes for 30 cents, 60 cents, retail, but to be told they cost dollars... I do understand that you have to pay overheads, but vet mark ups are a nightmare. I do think there are a number of procedures that can be done, wth young healthy animals, that don't need all the high tech equipment. There are volunteer vets in Bali, that do great work, with very basic equipment. I really do think there is a case for vets that 'specialise' in the basics. and drop all the frightfully expensive equipment, make that clear, and cater for the poor working pet owners. I know you probably shriek with boredom with desexing, but being in rescue, I would see each one as a virtuous victory. They don't take much time, I've watched dozens. 

I have to say, one of the worst gougers I came across, had a practice in a country town, had owned the land for 30 plus years, and paid perhaps $15000 for it. The new building was put in about 20 years ago. His overheads would be very low. They had the clinic filled with treats, toys, leads, and the usual food they push, and a vet nurse that appeared to be the not quite tall enough or classy enough to be a minor model, and appeared to be so thick, that I found I was speaking very slowly and choosing one syllable words to communicate, as I did with my lovable but braindead greyhound. Truly, my pet sheep would out think her. She had no idea of what was in stock, or how to use it, or how much it cost. (I found another with a price sticker on it). This in a town starting to become a satellite suburb of a small city, not a 1 horse dying town. I literally spent 10 minutes waiting for her to work out the computer and when I finally snapped and said. "I have CASH. Why can I not pay for it, and you write it down on a piece of paper and put it in your computer, after she works out what she'e doing?" I was told I had to wait for her to work out what she was doing wrong. They also tried to sell me 12 months worth of bird wormer, with 3 weeks left before it expired - which I pointed out. Given their desexing rates were as high as the most expensive city vet I knew about, I think they ARE too expensive and have no excuse, but they are the only vet in that town.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

chichi said:


> I did give a detailed reply but it seems to have disappeared
> 
> I didnt say anything about your life but from the holier than thou attitude thought you were quick to judge others. YOU dont know other peoples lives..whether they have KIDS TO FEED...whether their partners have lost the battle with illness and maybe bringing up kids as a lone parent.....oh but they should pay the pet insurance or they are irresponsible. Weve all been through tough times....that doesnt give us the right to judge others as irresponsible because they UNEXPECTEDLY cant afford to keep up the pet insurance
> 
> No high horses here.....just somebody that has lived long enough to know that judging people for things that are out of their control STINKS!


I have *never* said everyone has to have pet insurance, it can be expensive, especially as rates rise. What I said was pets are a luxury that no one person has the 'right' to own. If you can so much for them and can't afford them, then maybe you should be looking to rehome them to someone who can. Heartbreaking though it might be, but you have to face that might be the 'kindest' thing for your pet.

Whose judging who now? I've 'lived long enough'. How old am I Chichi?

In that post you are referring to I said people live beyond their means, and people do, they do not prepare themselves for the hard times if/when they come. They go on lavish holidays, have numerous pets and don't stop to think, can I or will I always be able to afford this?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Chippet said:


> I have *never* said everyone has to have pet insurance, it can be expensive, especially as rates rise. What I said was pets are a luxury that no one person has the 'right' to own. If you can so much for them and can't afford them, then maybe you should be looking to rehome them to someone who can. Heartbreaking though it might be, but you have to face that might be the 'kindest' thing for your pet.


Yes you can rehome to someone else but there is no guarantee that the new owners will always be able to afford them either!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Chippet said:


> I have *never* said everyone has to have pet insurance, it can be expensive, especially as rates rise. *What I said was pets are a luxury that no one person has the 'right' to own*. If you can so much for them and can't afford them, then maybe you should be looking to rehome them to someone who can. Heartbreaking though it might be, but you have to face that might be the 'kindest' thing for your pet.
> 
> Whose judging who now? I've 'lived long enough'. How old am I Chichi?
> 
> In that post you are referring to I said people live beyond their means, and people do, they do not prepare themselves for the hard times if/when they come. They go on lavish holidays, have numerous pets and don't stop to think, can I or will I always be able to afford this?


I agree. There was a memeber on here a while ago who conitued to buy more animals despite claiming PDSA assistance for her exiting ones. I could not understand how she could be so irresponsible to add to her household if she could not already support her original pets - apparently some thought I was being judgemental though 

Pets are a luxury no matter how people look at it. I would love to have more animals & if it were just the day to care then we could manage it. However if one or more then became ill & required treatment we would struggle so I have to be responsible & not take on anymore.

I also understand that there will be times in peoples lives where they do struggle (we had a similar period recently when my OH was out of work for months) but we had a small amount of savings (whish went when one of my dogs had an abscess on his anal gland) & wwe did cut back in other areas but .... why should a veterinary practise be there to help people through periods of financial difficulties - this is not their job. If they helped everyone who was struggling they would be bankrupt!


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I agree. There was a memeber on here a while ago who conitued to buy more animals despite claiming PDSA assistance for her exiting ones. I could not understand how she could be so irresponsible to add to her household if she could not already support her original pets - apparently some thought I was being judgemental though


seems you were a GOOD judge of character cleo as theres been loads more since then , that`s another thread though


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

There is no guarantee with anything in life.

If vets earn too much, how much do you all get paid?

ETA. Most of the vets I know earn in a region of £22 to £32k. They work a 45.5hour week. Do a night on call every week. Do a full weekend 8.30am Sat to 8.30am Monday approx every 7 weeks. Ok, so they are nOt necessarily working all that time, but often it can be near that, except a few hours break, overnight if they're lucky (and that is a GOOD rota, most vets work more weekends than that). so that equates to roughly £6.37/hour for the lowest paid and £9.27/hour for the higher paid. Roughly.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

The black and white avowal that unless you can afford to put up to 10000 pounds out for an emergency or the insurance costs, rules out so many loving homes. Lonely, socially isolated people who have no friends or family, rules out the mutual joy of companionship for the elderly who never had well paying jobs to stash super, or women who had children in the 50s, 60s, 70s and when divorced for a generation newer trophy wife, discovered there husband had hidden money and thay were left without a home or the shared super they took for granted. Many war widows, many war vets, all are told they aren'r allowed a pet because they were denied rightful pensions, etc. and in your brutish black and white world, what do we do with these now undeserved luxuries? They aren't going into rescue.They are overflowing now. You aren't a Republcan, are you? What a bleak, compassionless world you inhabit. I am not of your tribe.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

househens said:


> The black and white avowal that unless you can afford to put up to 10000 pounds out for an emergency or the insurance costs, rules out so many loving homes. Lonely, socially isolated people who have no friends or family, rules out the mutual joy of companionship for the elderly who never had well paying jobs to stash super, or women who had children in the 50s, 60s, 70s and when divorced for a generation newer trophy wife, discovered there husband had hidden money and thay were left without a home or the shared super they took for granted. Many war widows, many war vets, all are told they aren'r allowed a pet because they were denied rightful pensions, etc. and in your brutish black and white world, what do we do with these now undeserved luxuries? They aren't going into rescue.They are overflowing now. You aren't a Republcan, are you? What a bleak, compassionless world you inhabit. I am not of your tribe.


It is sad that animals continue to be left in rescues, people miss out on a certain level of companionship, etc but there is always a cost associated with everything as 'wrong' as that may be.

There is PDSA assitance for some people & I did used to contribute to this scheme but I don't now after hearing of so many people abusing the system. I understand that some views may be considered black & white but ultimately the question has to be who will pay for treatment of these animals if their owners can't?


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

househens said:


> The black and white avowal that unless you can afford to put up to 10000 pounds out for an emergency or the insurance costs, rules out so many loving homes. Lonely, socially isolated people who have no friends or family, rules out the mutual joy of companionship for the elderly who never had well paying jobs to stash super, or women who had children in the 50s, 60s, 70s and when divorced for a generation newer trophy wife, discovered there husband had hidden money and thay were left without a home or the shared super they took for granted. Many war widows, many war vets, all are told they aren'r allowed a pet because they were denied rightful pensions, etc. and in your brutish black and white world, what do we do with these now undeserved luxuries? They aren't going into rescue.They are overflowing now. You aren't a Republcan, are you? What a bleak, compassionless world you inhabit. I am not of your tribe.


 I agree my statement regarding rehoming was quite harsh, for that I apologise.

I am annoyed that the entire veterinary profession is having its name slated because a few out there overcharge. And it is their fault that people get far too many animals than they can afford (sometimes too many children too)and then except vets to do work for nothing or for an animal charity to foot the bill.

However I still maintain that the majority of vets do not overcharge, that pets are a luxury. If you look, and dont taint them all with the same brush, you will find a vet who has compassion, who will reduce fees, give discounts to regular, loyal clients who are on hard times. But if you chop and change vets on a regular basis and are never shown to be loyal, why should a vet be loyal back to you?

I know of people in the situations you state above that recieve discounts, or are on payment plans, because they went to the same vet for years and trust has developed between the two parties.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I have and will always be of the opinion that people who make extreme profits from the sick just doesn't sit well with me, it's my opinion and that's how I feel. I have seen vets who have huge houses and drive very nice cars too. I know it is great work they do but there is a lot of profit coming in from charging over the odds.

My aunt is being charged £1000 pounds from her vet for allergy testing she des not need, she is nerly 80 has extreme disabilities where her bones are crumbling and she can barely move, when she got her dog she had a husband who could look after the both but he died of a sudden heart attack. She lives in a very rural location where there is only the one vet she can make it to, her neighbour has a tibetan terrier who has a bad stomach and no insurance, he goes to the same vets as my aunt, the vet keeps him in weekends at a time even when his tummy has just gurgled like alies has done a few times too bt he is kept in and she is charged 1000's each time. The dog hardly ever has a bad tummy, he most likely caught a bug, no samples were taken but the vet keeps him in whenever she panics and takes him to the vet. 

The woman has now had to remortage her home as the dog is all she has in life, is this fair?


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> It is sad that animals continue to be left in rescues, people miss out on a certain level of companionship, etc but there is always a cost associated with everything as 'wrong' as that may be.
> 
> There is PDSA assitance for some people & I did used to contribute to this scheme but I don't now after hearing of so many people abusing the system. I understand that some views may be considered black & white but ultimately the question has to be who will pay for treatment of these animals if their owners can't?


It gets a LOT of abuse in my opinion. People wrangling the system to get something for nothing....*THESE* are the real people you should be annoyed at.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I have and will always be of the opinion that people who make extreme profits from the sick just doesn't sit well with me, it's my opinion and that's how I feel. I have seen vets who have huge houses and drive very nice cars too. I know it is great work they do but there is a lot of profit coming in from charging over the odds.
> 
> My aunt is being charged £1000 pounds from her vet for allergy testing she des not need, she is nerly 80 has extreme disabilities where her bones are crumbling and she can barely move, when she got her dog she had a husband who could look after the both but he died of a sudden heart attack. She lives in a very rural location where there is only the one vet she can make it to, her neighbour has a tibetan terrier who has a bad stomach and no insurance, he goes to the same vets as my aunt, the vet keeps him in weekends at a time even when his tummy has just gurgled like alies has done a few times too bt he is kept in and she is charged 1000's each time. The dog hardly ever has a bad tummy, he most likely caught a bug, no samples were taken but the vet keeps him in whenever she panics and takes him to the vet.
> 
> The woman has now had to remortage her home as the dog is all she has in life, is this fair?


.

No this isn't fair BUT a vet cannot keep an animal in, or do unnecessary tests without an owners permission. If its not necessary, why doesn't someone, like yourself,question the vet about it? Or in the case of the allergies, say 'no, we'll stick to cheap and cheerful steriods'


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I have and will always be of the opinion that people who make extreme profits from the sick just doesn't sit well with me, it's my opinion and that's how I feel. I have seen vets who have huge houses and drive very nice cars too. I know it is great work they do but there is a lot of profit coming in from charging over the odds.
> 
> My aunt is being charged £1000 pounds from her vet for allergy testing she des not need, she is nerly 80 has extreme disabilities where her bones are crumbling and she can barely move, when she got her dog she had a husband who could look after the both but he died of a sudden heart attack. She lives in a very rural location where there is only the one vet she can make it to, her neighbour has a tibetan terrier who has a bad stomach and no insurance, he goes to the same vets as my aunt, the vet keeps him in weekends at a time even when his tummy has just gurgled like alies has done a few times too bt he is kept in and she is charged 1000's each time. The dog hardly ever has a bad tummy, he most likely caught a bug, no samples were taken but the vet keeps him in whenever she panics and takes him to the vet.
> 
> The woman has now had to remortage her home as the dog is all she has in life, is this fair?


A £1000 for allergy testing  I've just had Buster allergy tested for £270 that's both food and environmental. I would question the vets as to why it is that amount.

With regards to the OP I don't feel I have ever been overcharged by a vet. My current vet us quite reasonabley priced. I have never questioned any bill from them. I took Mika to the vets last week due to a bony lump in her tail. Vet checked her and said just gristly bone should be fine. There was no charge.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

Jugsmalone said:


> A £1000 for allergy testing  I've just had Buster allergy tested for £270 that's both food and environmental. I would question the vets as to why it is that amount.


Same. My dogs allergy test were about £200 for blood tests and then £500 for a referral appointment, skin testing and immunotherapy.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Chippet said:


> .
> 
> No this isn't fair BUT a vet cannot keep an animal in, or do unnecessary tests without an owners permission. If its not necessary, why doesn't someone, like yourself,question the vet about it? Or in the case of the allergies, say 'no, we'll stick to cheap and cheerful steriods'


Well he has their permission but imo he is preying on the weak and infirm with their only comfort source to make a profit from them, my seem harsh but how else do you explain £1000 for a scratch test?

He says that is the only option to them, even though i have exlained to her that it is silly as the dog doesnt have allergies, she had a rash for 3 days but he is her only option and she says she can't loose him as there is no other vet she can get to anywhere near her village.

I would question the vet, but i can't leave her without one.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I agree. There was a memeber on here a while ago who conitued to buy more animals despite claiming PDSA assistance for her exiting ones. I could not understand how she could be so irresponsible to add to her household if she could not already support her original pets - apparently some thought I was being judgemental though


Probably the same as those who keep have baby after baby when they are on longterm benefits - many of whom haven't done a days work in their lives.


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## Chippet (Aug 27, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I would question the vet, but i can't leave her without one.


 Questioning the vet shouldn't leave her without one, he can't write her off as a client just because she's questioned the reasons behind his treatment. Any real concerns, you need to take up with the RCVS, not on an Internet forum.


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## Skandi (May 4, 2012)

I personaly think people run to the vet to fast, I'm always of the opinion if I wouldn't go to the doctor for it why take her to the vet? now I did take her when she had liquid poo at 10weeks.. but with her so small it was possibly dangerous, now... no chance. Also rememeber insurance companies are out to MAKE money it WILL cost more (on average) to insure than to pay the vet direct, if you can afford to put money into a savings account that is a better idea, then if nothing does happen you still have the money. And if you can't well the one of the charities could possibly help, and I'm sure you can find some time to do stuff for them to pay it back!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Ha Ha!! I thought you said she had liquid poo FOR 10 weeks


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Skandi said:


> .... Also rememeber insurance companies are out to MAKE money it WILL cost more (on average) to insure than to pay the vet direct, if you can afford to put money into a savings account that is a better idea, then if nothing does happen you still have the money. And if you can't well the one of the charities could possibly help, and I'm sure you can find some time to do stuff for them to pay it back!


Firstly, it will cost less to insure than pay out for almost anything non-routine or for minor illnesses. In most chronic illnesses the annual premiums come to much less than the payouts.

Secondly, you can put money into a savings account - but most people who say they do - don't. Even if they did they may need 5 years worth (or more) of savings to pay for a major operation. If the pet needs that operation after one or two months worth of savings they either can't pay and have the animal PTS or they have to find the money from somewhere and perhaps pay off a debt at high interest rates.

Thirdly, it's amazingly irresponsible of anyone to assume that charities are there simply because an owner can't be bothered to make their own arrangements. Yes, charities are there to help really hard up people but those charities need an income to do that. Perhaps it would be better if you put your 'savings' directly into one of the charities. And, as a matter of fact, getting help form such charities usually means the most basic vet care and it's only available to those who, for example, are on state benefits.

Sure, people can fall on hard times - but the bald fact is that many people are just looking for 'cheap'. The proportion of vets who 'overcharge' is tiny - and, if they do, you can query it and if you don't get a satisfactory answer go to to the RCVS.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

chichi said:


> I did give a detailed reply but it seems to have disappeared
> 
> I didnt say anything about your life but from the holier than thou attitude thought you were quick to judge others. YOU dont know other peoples lives..whether they have KIDS TO FEED...whether their partners have lost the battle with illness and maybe bringing up kids as a lone parent.....oh but they should pay the pet insurance or they are irresponsible. Weve all been through tough times....that doesnt give us the right to judge others as irresponsible because they UNEXPECTEDLY cant afford to keep up the pet insurance
> 
> No high horses here.....just somebody that has lived long enough to know that judging people for things that are out of their control STINKS!


You keep talking about your 'reality checks' (I know some of your posts have been deleted, but I did read them before they were) though and judging others which is the very thing that you object to. You also say that you have 'lived long enough' to know things. Very few of us on here know what life experiences others have had, some may have experienced an awful lot of 'real life' for all you know, not just those who agree with your point of view and version of reality.

I do find it fairly offensive that you feel that your life experience somehow qualifies your views more than other peoples' experiences do so you feel the need to 'push' reality - I am sure we all have what we believe to be valid reasoning behind our thinking.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

chichi said:


> And for those that are so perfect as to know they are always going to have funds for vet treatment.....try to jump off you soap boxes and think of those who have lost jobs...had partners leave them....become suddenly ill and unable to work...all sorts of reasons that their lifestyle and funding has changed. Nobody can see into the future. Try jumping in somebody elses shoes...it might do you good.
> 
> I have all the funding I need at the moment for my pets...and insurance...but Im not so
> arrogant and pig headed to think that will ALWAYS be the case. Life can be a bitch


Im sure theres cases of genuine need but how many could be solved via thinking ahead and accumulating what was in the day called 'savings' and not living beyond ones means as well as being able to prioritise the expenditure in life.



emmaviolet said:


> Very true, even investment bankers lately have found their money gone and basically homeless. They would have thought they would be financially safe for the rest of their lives.


And you know what I didnt feel an ounce of pity for some of those sob stories I saw on the news.

How many of those bankers had the latest gadgets, fancy cars, private schooling for the children and nice holidays all over the world? They enjoyed the money while they had it.

Alot of people seem to think what used to be luxary items are indeed necessaties or their gven right to have.

Whatever happened to living within ones means? Having a safety blanket incase things change?

Its true - You do not know what is around the corner  Thats why you save / prepare in the good times.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Chippet said:


> I have *never* said everyone has to have pet insurance, it can be expensive, especially as rates rise. What I said was pets are a luxury that no one person has the 'right' to own. If you can so much for them and can't afford them, then maybe you should be looking to rehome them to someone who can. Heartbreaking though it might be, but you have to face that might be the 'kindest' thing for your pet.
> 
> Whose judging who now? I've 'lived long enough'. How old am I Chichi?
> 
> In that post you are referring to I said people live beyond their means, and people do, they do not prepare themselves for the hard times if/when they come. They go on lavish holidays, have numerous pets and don't stop to think, can I or will I always be able to afford this?


Errrrm..... I thought you were young because your previous post sounded like a tantrum

Like I said....some people suffer genuine hardship.....nice that you say.....flippantly....that people should pass on their pets if they cant afford them....just like that huh.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Dogless said:


> You keep talking about your 'reality checks' (I know some of your posts have been deleted, but I did read them before they were) though and judging others which is the very thing that you object to. You also say that you have 'lived long enough' to know things. Very few of us on here know what life experiences others have had, some may have experienced an awful lot of 'real life' for all you know, not just those who agree with your point of view and version of reality.
> 
> I do find it fairly offensive that you feel that your life experience somehow qualifies your views more than other peoples' experiences do so you feel the need to 'push' reality - I am sure we all have what we believe to be valid reasoning behind our thinking.


Sorry if I am not a judgmental bigot. I am somebody that likes to think Before I judge. I dont like people suggesting that others are irresponsible for owning a pet when they are having UNEXPECTED financial hardship. I have expressed my opinion on judgmental people...it wont change. If you find my posts offensive there is an ignore option....feel free to use it.

People who believe others are irresponsible for owning a pet when they have hit hard times...I think do need a reality check. It can happen to any of us. I am not so conceited to think it can never happen to me.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I am sure the many rescues would be shaking with rage to see people on this thread pushing the point of rehoming their pets because they are irresponsible.....purely because they have unexpectedly hit financial hardship. Most rescues are at max capacity as it is....without people here suggesting animals would be better off rehomed. That IS irresponsible.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> And you know what I didnt feel an ounce of pity for some of those sob stories I saw on the news.


I didn't either, i just meant that even they lost their jobs, it happens to the lowest and the highest on all levels so then no one is really ever that secure to own a dog.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I didn't either, i just meant that even they lost their jobs, it happens to the lowest and the highest on all levels so then no one is really ever that secure to own a dog.


But there definately seems to be a 'living in the moment' approach to life / money these days in general  I think for my age im very old fashioned. I truely believe if you cant afford something then you shouldnt have it.

I could buy a replacement car tomorrow but those kind of things arnt important to me - I drive my estate knowing every penny of its paid for and im proud of that, 1 of our sofas was free as a get me by  the other an ebay bargain (I love ebay!). There seems so many who will happily buy the expensive sofa, the latest Iphone, Sky Tv yet moan they are out of money at the end of the month. Drives me mad. 

I know you never know which is around the corner which is why I choose to live how we do.

I just cant help but think if people forward planned - lived within 'realistic' means there would be alot less people claiming poverty. I wholeheartedly understand there will always be the odd extreme situation where things cannot be forseen but I also believe alot of cases could be avoided if people were less worried about the 'lifestyle' and the here and now and more concerned about the future.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

I think some people in this thread need to remember there are good and bad vets out there, as there are in any profession and without people reporting the bad vets to the RCVS they will continue to be bad vets 

I can't help thinking that if we actually had to pay for our own medical care some wouldn't even think twice about vet fees.

Vets train for 6-7 years before they can start to earn money, after this time their training does not end they have to continue to train so that they are kept up to date with new medical advancements (for example the RWAF are running a conference next month, to attend as a vet it will cost £400 ) and lets face it if they didn't go on these courses many would bitch and moan cos their vets are behind the times 

Yes *some* vets are extortionate but until people actually address these vets they won't change.

I have a rat that had to have part of his tail amputated a few months ago, that set me back £396 in total but then I expected it to be fairly high because I have a specialist exotics vet


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> But there definately seems to be a 'living in the moment' approach to life / money these days in general  I think for my age im very old fashioned. I truely believe if you cant afford something then you shouldnt have it.
> 
> I could buy a replacement car tomorrow but those kind of things arnt important to me - I drive my estate knowing every penny of its paid for and im proud of that, 1 of our sofas was free as a get me by  the other an ebay bargain (I love ebay!). There seems so many who will happily buy the expensive sofa, the latest Iphone, Sky Tv yet moan they are out of money at the end of the month. Drives me mad.
> 
> ...


I really agree, also like you i am always called old for my age by family and friends as i don't enjoy clubbing, don't drink, have never smoked in my life and i have zero interest in cars, i couldn't tell you who drives what car!

I think you are right, if people put by then they may not be caught out, however there are people who live 'hand to mouth' and therefore have nothing to pt by and do not enjoy the latest gadget o car or even a holiday.

Then there are those where their only bit of comfort in life is their dog, they may not even be here without them and I think this i where the cost of vets really affects ownership, otherwise food is affordable for a dog and they need only the basics to care for them.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I think weve all acknowledged that there are good and bad vets out there. I have said that my vet is great. He truly is fantastic. I have not a single complaint about him. He is the first of a long line of vets that has been this way unfortunately. EVERY other vets I have used over the last 30 years (differing parts of the country...different companies...etc) have been absolute rip offs and looking back. ...some of the advice and suggested treatment was def to boost their finances....we live and learn.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

chichi said:


> Sorry if I am not a judgmental bigot. I am somebody that likes to think Before I judge. I dont like people suggesting that others are irresponsible for owning a pet when they are having UNEXPECTED financial hardship. I have expressed my opinion on judgmental people...it wont change. If you find my posts offensive there is an ignore option....feel free to use it.
> 
> People who believe others are irresponsible for owning a pet when they have hit hard times...I think do need a reality check. It can happen to any of us. I am not so conceited to think it can never happen to me.


No need to apologise . People *are* irresponsible for owning a pet when they are aware* before* getting it that they cannot properly afford to care for it. As I have said all the way through this thread, unexpectedly hitting hard times is a totally different matter entirely and neither am I conceited enough to think that bad things can never happen to me. If believing that people should take responsibility for living within their means rather than conforming to today's 'want it now' culture makes me a judgemental bigot in your eyes then so be it.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

chichi said:


> I think weve all acknowledged that there are good and bad vets out there. I have said that my vet is great. He truly is fantastic. I have not a single complaint about him. He is the first of a long line of vets that has been this way unfortunately. EVERY other vets I have used over the last 30 years (differing parts of the country...different companies...etc) have been absolute rip offs and looking back. ...some of the advice and suggested treatment was def to boost their finances....we live and learn.


And did you report those vets?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> And did you report those vets?


As I said, you live and learn. I know much more about animals and their care today....many people don't. If I'd known at the time that some were suggesting x-rays purely to build their bank balance, I would have reported them (though it likely would have gone nowhere because it would have been his word against mine - so fairly pointless in any case).

Those that charge extortionate fees, why would I report them??? It's clear from this thread alone that many people would basically sell their backsides to get their pet the care they think is vital... even if overpriced. I just moved on. It has even been suggested here that if you "shop around" to find a better price for treatment, you are not doing right by your pet. The mind absolutely boggles sometimes.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Dogless said:


> No need to apologise . People *are* irresponsible for owning a pet when they are aware* before* getting it that they cannot properly afford to care for it. As I have said all the way through this thread, unexpectedly hitting hard times is a totally different matter entirely and neither am I conceited enough to think that bad things can never happen to me. If believing that people should take responsibility for living within their means rather than conforming to today's 'want it now' culture makes me a judgemental bigot in your eyes then so be it.


If youre not one of the "irresponsible for owning pets you can't afford...theyd be better of in another home" brigade, then why are we even getting into this You seem to have taken it upon yourself to soak up comments that were made to those that think you should "plan ahead" and have money in the bank waiting for financial devastation to hit.

My comments were mostly aimed at Chippet, so no need for you to get defensive over what you've said if you are saying you understand that certain circumstances are unavoidable.

I have never said that people should own pets willy nilly. Of course you should live to your means. I have never said anything else but what I don't agree with VERY STRONGLY is this attitude that if you can't insure your pet and pay high vet fees, despite something awful and unexpected happening...you are irresponsible. As for the comments that a pet would be better rehomed with somebody who can afford them, that is beyond irresponsible in the current financial climate and the bad way most rescues are finding themselves in. As an animal loving forum, I don't believe we should be telling people to rehome their pets unless it is absolutely unavoidable!

As for your smart comment about me apologising.......have you ever thought of doing stand-up comedy pmsl


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> To a certain extent I can accept the fees for the consultations and treatment. It's the complete and utter rip off where prescription medicines are concerned. My dog was on Previcox, which costs me 92p a tablet from online pharmacies, but my vet charges me £2.70 for the same tablet! And Tramadol is 5p per 50mg tablet from places like Lloyds Chemist etc, but the vet charges 14p per table. And Metacam. £5.80 from an online pharmacy, £24.50 for exactly the same from the vet.
> 
> For the convenience of being able to order and collect from the vet's surgery I might be prepared to accept up to twice the cost of an online pharmacy, but routinely 3 times as much is simply unacceptable and that Metcam was an out and out rip-off.


I spoke to my vet over the discrepancy in prices between the internet and his charges. I think the reply was very valid. The drugs actually cost the practice more than the price we can buy on the internet. He also said that if they lose their profit margin on drugs then their other charges will shoot up because the money has to come from somewhere.



Ang2 said:


> Hardly an unbiased opinion as you work in the industry! The link quoting highest paid jobs relates to salaried professions. Most vets either own or are a partner in their own practice and not 'salaried'. I dont see the relevance of you quoting your own salary, as you are not a vet.
> 
> This thread may indeed wind you up, but this topic was in the news today and is worthy of discussion, and of concern to many pet owners.
> 
> It does indeed take a special kind of person to become a vet. It also takes a special kind of person who is able to euthanise an animal because the owner cant afford the fees. Thankfully, there are still some very kind and compassionate vets, though they are few and far between!


I would think there are very few animals that are put down purely because the owner cannot afford the fee. I would think it is more likely that the owner is swayed by the cost when making the decision on whether to put the dog through expensive tests and treatment when there is a good chance the outcome will eventually be the same.

There are bound to be some poor vets and some money grabbing ones. I have worked with many poor quality young vets, some improve and some leave the profession. I have also worked for a money grabbing one and he disgusted me. He did not stay very long either, he sold the practice.

How much does it cost to get a plumber out to your house - I find it costs a lot more than getting the vet out.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

chichi said:


> As I said, you live and learn. I know much more about animals and their care today....many people don't. If I'd known at the time that some were suggesting x-rays purely to build their bank balance, I would have reported them (though it likely would have gone nowhere because it would have been his word against mine - so fairly pointless in any case).
> 
> Those that charge extortionate fees, why would I report them??? It's clear from this thread alone that many people would basically sell their backsides to get their pet the care they think is vital... even if overpriced. I just moved on. It has even been suggested here that if you "shop around" to find a better price for treatment, you are not doing right by your pet. The mind absolutely boggles sometimes.


And that is the very reason that some vets will get away with over charging 

I am one of those that would "sell my backside" to get my pets the care they need, the difference being is that if I genuinely believed that a vet had "ripped me off" or done unnecessary treatments I would make a complaint to the RCVS so they could investigate. If my concerns were valid the vet will be reprimanded, if I'm just being a grumpy cow the RCVS will explain why the costs and treatment are needed 

Some people (general statement before anyone gets butt hurt) just love to whinge and moan, but if you suggest a way to resolve it, well that is just too much effort


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Can you make a general complaint to the RCVS bout prices of a practice and also anon too?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Sorry my computer won't let me use the "quote" option, so I'm having to do my best here, don't know what's wrong with it!

Quote by B3arnie:
And that is the very reason that some vets will get away with over charging

I am one of those that would "sell my backside" to get my pets the care they need, the difference being is that if I genuinely believed that a vet had "ripped me off" or done unnecessary treatments I would make a complaint to the RCVS so they could investigate. If my concerns were valid the vet will be reprimanded, if I'm just being a grumpy cow the RCVS will explain why the costs and treatment are needed

Some people (general statement before anyone gets butt hurt) just love to whinge and moan, but if you suggest a way to resolve it, well that is just too much effort 


If you are referring to me as being butt hurt, don't worry. It would take more than any comment on a forum to butt hurt me

If I went through life going through the red tape of complaining where I thought the service wasn't great and the prices were inflated, I'd have no time to come and waste on forums like this


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Can you make a general complaint to the RCVS bout prices of a practice and also anon too?


Yes you can complain about prices, as that comes under Serious professional misconduct, however you can't do it anon.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

chichi said:


> Sorry my computer won't let me use the "quote" option, so I'm having to do my best here, don't know what's wrong with it!
> 
> Quote by B3arnie:
> And that is the very reason that some vets will get away with over charging
> ...


I wasn't referring to anyone, hence the "general statement" 

But thank you for proving my point :thumbup:


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Yes you can complain about prices, as that comes under Serious professional misconduct, however you can't do it anon.


Thank you, would they tell the practice?


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Thank you, would they tell the practice?


The practice would know that a complaint had been made about them, I'm not sure if names would be mentioned during the investigation tho.
You would have to contact the RCVS to find that info out


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

And lets forget for a moment about the studying, student loans, etc., that vets have to go through - what about their profit on supplying their clients with meds that you can also buy online - without prescription.

Take wormers:

Panacur Paste for Dogs and Cats - Around £3.50 online

The same item from the Vet - Around £5.00

ProKolin Paste - 30ml tube Around £10 online

The same item from the Vet - Around £17

There is absolutely no reason for that sort of mark up on meds that can also be bought online. The Vets are paying, most likely, less than we pay online (because most items are cheaper if bought in bulk) and likely don't have to pay postage because of the size of their orders, yet they are making a HUGE profit on some items. There is no excuse for this.

I was in the Vets one day when I heard somebody paying a the high price for a tube of ProKolin, so I said to her that if she went online, she could get it at a much lower price. She said she'd love to but she didn't have internet (she was elderly) nor anyone else to get it for her. Many people are in that position and it's not fair that for meds they are getting ripped off.

So what's the excuse for the high mark up of these sort of items. They are necessary, not luxury. The overheads of the place is already accounted for in the professional fees you pay for the vets, etc., yet such high mark up on these items. It's wrong!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> I wasn't referring to anyone, hence the "general statement"
> 
> But thank you for proving my point :thumbup:


Another comedian......this thread's a laugh a minute:thumbup:


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## MissPeek (Jul 14, 2012)

Have to say, my little boy Arnold has just been diagnosed with Giardia and I really do think vets deserve every penny....he was a nightmare to handle when he first got sick, so my vet drove out, handled him and took him away to be hospitalised and hooked up to a drip for 4 days until they got to the bottom of it. He has medication, has had blood tests, stool samples analyzed and round the clock care. Total bill was 1700 AED (390 quid) which I thought was pretty good all things considered. Having a pet is a serious (and expensive!) commitment and i've said this to anyone who has asked me about dog ownership since taking arnold on- consider the costs! People do tend to assume that you have the dog, give him a few jabs, food and that's it...I try to put a little bit aside each month for arnold in case of emergency or any extras I may have to buy...a pain when you're lusting over a new pair of shoes but necessary as I wouldn't want to be caught out with a very sick dog..


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

chichi said:


> And lets forget for a moment about the studying, student loans, etc., that vets have to go through - what about their profit on supplying their clients with meds that you can also buy online - without prescription.
> 
> Take wormers:
> 
> ...


As I said in an earlier post the vets have to make a profit and they are paying more for a lot of the drugs they sell than we pay for them online. In the same way that the small local shop is paying more for some of their products than they are sold for in supermarkets.
You have a choice, the local shops are there for convenience, the vets sell wormers etc for convenience. Your choice as to where you buy them.
BUT as my vet said if everyone opts for the internet choice then consultation charges will go up in proportion to the profit on the drugs going down.

Do you argue with your plumber, electrician and mechanic over their charges. Do you tell your solicitor that he is overcharging.

Vets have huge overheads. Yes, of course they drive round in expensive cars - they need them to get to their calls. I do not want a vet turning up to my farm in an old banger and then not getting here one day because it has broken down.
I do not want my dog treated in a back street operation that is run on a shoe string. I want a convenient surgery with a car park and a comfortable waiting room and plenty of staff to look after the animals.

Having said all that I am the first to check through my vets bill and query anything that does not seem right. And sometimes I do find genuine mistakes. The same drug charged for at totally different prices. They are only human and they do make mistakes but they are easily rectified. I have had arguments when I feel something has been grossly overcharged and again sometimes it is a mistake, sometimes there is something I have not taken into account and sometimes I still feel it was too expensive - but I think I can safely say I nearly always think that tradesmen overcharge!


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Can I just add another concept (even though I promised to leave this thread!).
Vet pharmacies dont have the overheads practices do, they can buy larger quantities and therefore buy in cheaper passing on some of the savings to the consumer.
This could result in a similer situation that small shop keepers had when supermarkets started becoming more common place.
You will find small practices disapearing and larger "chain" practices popping up.
The personal service would die off and "practice protocol" would mean that they would have a set standard of service which I know would not suit everybody.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Lol at vets NEEDING their expensive cars.

And seriously....youre telling me that vets pay more for wormer than we do. Okay then. I will take your word for it.....


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

chichi said:


> Lol at vets NEEDING their expensive cars.
> 
> And seriously....youre telling me that vets pay more for wormer than we do. Okay then. I will take your word for it.....


Well most calvings arnt exactly at the end of a local bus route!!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

chichi said:


> Lol at vets NEEDING their expensive cars.
> 
> And seriously....youre telling me that vets pay more for wormer than we do. Okay then. I will take your word for it.....


Of course they need a decent car. Do you think the vets sit in their little office all day waiting for you to come in with your little dog. 
They are driving hundreds, if not thousands, of miles every week doing their main work seeing horses and farm animals.

And yes, they often will be paying more for their drugs. An average practice will not be ordering huge amounts of every drug therefore they will be paying a lot more than a huge online pharmacy who probably sells more dog wormers in a day than most vets sell in a year.
Surely you are aware of why small corner shops are so expensive compared with supermarkets. Have you ever been in a cash and carry and seen the prices.
Do you go into a shop and have a go at the owner for daring to make a profit.
no, you either pay the extra because of convenience or you go elsewhere.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Of course they need a decent car. Do you think the vets sit in their little office all day waiting for you to come in with your little dog.
> They are driving hundreds, if not thousands, of miles every week doing their main work seeing horses and farm animals.
> 
> And yes, they often will be paying more for their drugs. An average practice will not be ordering huge amounts of every drug therefore they will be paying a lot more than a huge online pharmacy who probably sells more dog wormers in a day than most vets sell in a year.
> ...


Lol. ...the only tractors any vets round here see are their Chelsea Tractors on their drives. Not everyone lives on a farm you know..... 

Honestly...do you really think a vet pays more than I do for a syringe of Panacur from the wbolesalers. I buy 3....do you think the Vet orders less than a couple of dozen. If I buy 10 the price per item goes down....yet you think the vet pays more.

Time I shut up and move away from this thread I think. Im close to the "reality" word and I dont want to offend anyone.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

An expensive car can break down just as a cheaper one can, you don't need a merc when a ford can do the job.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

chichi said:


> Honestly...do you really think a vet pays more than I do for a syringe of Panacur from the wbolesalers. I buy 3....do you think the Vet orders less than a couple of dozen.


A small practice will only buy one or two at a time, they can't afford to have dozens sitting on the shelf...


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

magpie said:


> A small practice will only buy one or two at a time, they can't afford to have dozens sitting on the shelf...


Two vets at my surgery.....one consulting room......shelves full of wormers....etc


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Two vets at my surgery, two consult rooms, and stock is only ordered bit at a time as it's needed


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Why would they pay more? They could always get them from where we are instead!!!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

magpie said:


> Two vets at my surgery, two consult rooms, and stock is only ordered bit at a time as it's needed


Really so a multi dog owner like me would have to wait for them to order Products in.

I carry more stock here than your Vet does


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Why would they pay more? They could always get them from where we are instead!!!


Exactly.........


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

As it is bothering you so much why don't you ask your vet? Is it just your vet that you feel overcharges for medication or any vet?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Jobeth said:


> As it is bothering you so much why don't you ask your vet? Is it just your vet that you feel overcharges for medication or any vet?


My vet isnt as expensive as other vets....

Why would I bother to ask a question of a vet that I know the answer to. PROFIT. My question was for those that think vets are just scraping a living being as the answer to extortionate fees was that we had to pay for their expertise...okay....so wheres the expertise in handing over products that can be bought online. Its greed and funnily enough there hasnt been an answer here....well unless you include one answer that the vets pay more for products than we do...pmsl.

Do you have an answer.... being as you have bothered to comment or can you not bear to face that its all about profit margins 

Like I said....my Vet is great but I think vet fees generally are becoming a joke and I cannot buy into this "poor vet" way of thinking.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> An expensive car can break down just as a cheaper one can, you don't need a merc when a ford can do the job.


And why shouldn't they drive a Merc with the money they have *earned* if that's what they want to spend it on? I still just can't get my head around this idea that professionals who choose to help people or animals shouldn't make good money from it. Interestingly I've heard so many times that NHS doctors are paid too much as many of them drive nice cars too BUT when people go to see a private doctor or dentist they seem impressed by the plush surroundings, speed of care, modern equipment and expect their consultant to drive a nice car (the same consultant often works for the NHS too yet gets disapproving comments when they park at the NHS hospital).

If we weren't used to the NHS for our health care I'm sure this culture of believing that doctors, nurses, vets etc should do it for the sheer love of helping people wouldn't be as strong.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dogless said:


> And why shouldn't they drive a Merc with the money they have *earned* if that's what they want to spend it on? I still just can't get my head around this idea that professionals who choose to help people or animals shouldn't make good money from it. Interestingly I've heard so many times that NHS doctors are paid too much as many of them drive nice cars too BUT when people go to see a private doctor or dentist they seem impressed by the plush surroundings, speed of care, modern equipment and expect their consultant to drive a nice car (the same consultant often works for the NHS too yet gets disapproving comments when they park at the NHS hospital).
> 
> If we weren't used to the NHS for our health care I'm sure this culture of believing that doctors, nurses, vets etc should do it for the sheer love of helping people wouldn't be as strong.


My point was you don't NEED an expensive car to be reliable.
Blitz said it had to be expensive to work and be reliabe whereas any car can go wrong.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't think anyone believes that vets are 'scraping a living'. All I'm trying to do is explain that running a surgery costs a lot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. So yes, they add on a bit to everything they sell in order to make a profit, I don't see anything wrong with that??

If I took my dog to a vets that was filthy because they couldn't afford enough staff to keep it clean, where the staff they did have were overworked and shattered, where the machines weren't kept maintained, where the vets knowledge wasn't up to date because they couldn't pay to go on cpd courses.... I'd run a frikkin mile!!

I'd rather pay a little extra to see a knowledgeable vet in hygienic surroundings, where there are plenty of staff and decent equipment. Maybe that's just me though?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> And why shouldn't they drive a Merc with the money they have *earned* if that's what they want to spend it on? I still just can't get my head around this idea that professionals who choose to help people or animals shouldn't make good money from it. Interestingly I've heard so many times that NHS doctors are paid too much as many of them drive nice cars too BUT when people go to see a private doctor or dentist they seem impressed by the plush surroundings, speed of care, modern equipment and expect their consultant to drive a nice car (the same consultant often works for the NHS too yet gets disapproving comments when they park at the NHS hospital).
> 
> If we weren't used to the NHS for our health care I'm sure this culture of believing that doctors, nurses, vets etc should do it for the sheer love of helping people wouldn't be as strong.


I agree, tbh if my vet drove a Ferrari then it would have b*gger all to do with me. I would also point out the amount of clients we had who claimed poverty were driving new BMW's ..... yet couldn't afford to pay their bills on time ... or at all 

Veterinary medicine is a profession just like any other & most people involved want to (& have to) make money from it. Why should they work for a pittance or for free? Why should they be blamed if animals suffer because their owners cannot afford treatment?

Treatments online will be cheaper - that's sort of standard for most things as online stores do not have the same over heads. If you want your vets to match the price why not ask? I did & now they do. I wonder if anyone has made a complaint with the RCVS regarding uneccessary treatment & if so what was the outcome. If I felt that strongly about being ripped off then I would be contacting them to get an answer rather than posting on a forum


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

chichi said:


> My vet isnt as expensive as other vets....
> 
> Why would I bother to ask a question of a vet that I know the answer to. PROFIT. My question was for those that think vets are just scraping a living being as the answer to extortionate fees was that we had to pay for their expertise...okay....so wheres the expertise in handing over products that can be bought online. Its greed and funnily enough there hasnt been an answer here....well unless you include one answer that the vets pay more for products than we do...pmsl.
> 
> ...


I wondered why you were so bothered and wondered if you had an issue with your vet. I asked a simple question and got a rude and aggressive one in response. Says everything really.

As you asked-of course they make a profit. They have to pay overheads such as the electricity, rent etc. They also do it to pay their mortgage and fund some form of lifestyle. I have no idea what car my vet drives (other than they have a pet ambulance, which they have to pay for) and I don't care.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2012)

chichi said:


> My vet isnt as expensive as other vets....
> 
> Why would I bother to ask a question of a vet that I know the answer to. PROFIT. My question was for those that think vets are just scraping a living being as the answer to extortionate fees was that we had to pay for their expertise...okay....so wheres the expertise in handing over products that can be bought online. Its greed and funnily enough there hasnt been an answer here....well unless you include one answer that the vets pay more for products than we do...pmsl.
> 
> ...


I think you will find you were answered, they have overheads to cover where as an online company has virtually no overheads. Have you any idea how much it is to run a business these days? 

Seriously if you think vets rip people off as much as you think then why not train to be a vet so you can either join in the "fleecing of clients" or you can offer to work for next to nothing.

Let me know how that works out for you


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

Can someone answer me a question please? It's not meant to cause a huge argument, I genuinely don't know the answer!

Why does it cost so much just to see an emergency vet? I had to take my dog about 18months ago and it was basically £145 just for turning up, then I obviously had to pay for medication. I can see why people can't afford to take their dog to the emergency vets if they haven't got the funds! Fortunately I always save, so I have quite a bit put to one side plus they are all insured.

My vets now opens all day Sunday's so hopefully I won't need to go to an emergency vets again.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

CavalierOwner said:


> Can someone answer me a question please? It's not meant to cause a huge argument, I genuinely don't know the answer!
> 
> Why does it cost so much just to see an emergency vet? I had to take my dog about 18months ago and it was basically £145 just for turning up, then I obviously had to pay for medication. I can see why people can't afford to take their dog to the emergency vets if they haven't got the funds! Fortunately I always save, so I have quite a bit put to one side plus they are all insured.
> 
> My vets now opens all day Sunday's so hopefully I won't need to go to an emergency vets again.


I would imagine because its out of normal hours - as an example if you get a taxi after midnight its usually double the standard price. Personally for me to want to work at night I would want four times the pay 

I really don't understand why some people expect vets not to want to make money baffles me. I do think part of it is because of our own health, cushioned by NHS have no real idea how much things cost. Few month back my dad was unwell and I paid for him to see the consultant privately, he is 82 and I could not see him in agonising pain whilst waiting 4 months on the NHS. He was given a prescription for anti biotics, would have been free on the NHS due to his age but because it was a private prescription it was £55, plus £180 to see the consultant


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

CavalierOwner said:


> Can someone answer me a question please? It's not meant to cause a huge argument, I genuinely don't know the answer!
> 
> *Why does it cost so much just to see an emergency vet*? My vets now opens all day Sunday's so hopefully I won't need to go to an emergency vets again.


Getting called from your bed a 2am on a freezing sunday night seems like the start of a good reason to charge to me.. 

I am interested to hear if the ones critising so much, are trained professionals in their fields. If they would charge minimum for their skills just because some one can not make arrangements to pay for their services. Or feel that their hard work and years of training/study/uni was not worth it so they could drive a nice car, live in a nice house.

I know a number of vets and VN's who along with their salaried job give free or low paid time to various animal charities as well. I would find this hard knowing how these are often abused by people.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> My point was you don't NEED an expensive car to be reliable.
> Blitz said it had to be expensive to work and be reliabe whereas any car can go wrong.


No, but a brand new vehicle under warranty is far more likely to be reliable than an old banger. Any car CAN got wrong, it stands to reason that an old car with huge mileage is more LIKELY to go wrong.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

CavalierOwner said:


> Can someone answer me a question please? It's not meant to cause a huge argument, I genuinely don't know the answer!
> 
> Why does it cost so much just to see an emergency vet? I had to take my dog about 18months ago and it was basically £145 just for turning up, then I obviously had to pay for medication. I can see why people can't afford to take their dog to the emergency vets if they haven't got the funds! Fortunately I always save, so I have quite a bit put to one side plus they are all insured.
> 
> My vets now opens all day Sunday's so hopefully I won't need to go to an emergency vets again.





northnsouth said:


> Getting called from your bed a 2am on a freezing sunday night seems like the start of a good reason to charge to me..


I would imagine that, as well as to compensate for being on duty and called from your bed it is also to deter folk from using the emergency system for routine problems.

I had one job where I was on call 5 days or more out of 7 for 2 1/2 years - no leave and no time off duty at all when certain things were happening for 5 or 6 weeks at a time. It means that you have to constantly have a phone on you, can't drink, can't go more than a certain time away from work. The service we offered didn't attract a charge and the way that the 'emergency' hours were abused was appalling - called in countless times in the middle of the night to see drunk people, called away from meals or at the weekend for sore throats people had had for days but been out shopping or something else during normal clinic timings, people coming to find you at the pool or in the gym to ask why you were there as they wanted to be seen for something minor like acne they'd had for 2 years....the list is endless :mad2:. We also went out nearly every night on the helicopter for a true emergency so were pretty exhausted much of the time. I would say that (apart from the helicopter jobs and jungle med cover jobs) I probably saw about 20 people in all that time who really needed to be seen immediately. I can't help thinking that, had a charge been levied for out of hours work, whether only the truly genuine would have used it.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dogless said:


> No, but a brand new vehicle under warranty is far more likely to be reliable than an old banger. Any car CAN got wrong, it stands to reason that an old car with huge mileage is more LIKELY to go wrong.


No I meant expensive, not new. I was only stating that a new ford and a new merc etc have the same chance of braking down, it was just response to the statement that they need expensive cars.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

Thank you to everyone that answered! 

The emergency vets I went to was actually at PDSA? I just rang my vets surgery (at about 6pm on a Saturday) and it redirected me to that vets. It was the first time I'd ever used an emergency vets so I didn't have a clue tbh! When I phoned up to ask them whether they thought that I needed to go in they said they didnt know without seeing her and it was upto me but it would be £145 before any treatment.

There was other people there as well when I got there! I expected it to be empty but it wasn't! It was just like going to the vets during the day.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> No I meant expensive, not new. I was only stating that a new ford and a new merc etc have the same chance of braking down, it was just response to the statement that they need expensive cars.


I remember one of the old vets in practice tv progs having a similer discussion.
The practice in question would pref to buy a 2nd hand merc than a brand new cheaper alternative as they felt the older car was less of a liability.
Also vets do a heck of a lot of traveling from farm to farm etc, why shouldnt they have a bit of comfort?


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2012)

gesic said:


> I remember one of the old vets in practice tv progs having a similer discussion.
> The practice in question would pref to buy a 2nd hand merc than a brand new cheaper alternative as they felt the older car was less of a liability.
> Also vets do a heck of a lot of traveling from farm to farm etc, why shouldnt they have a bit of comfort?


Not to mention that there is no way a vet could fit all the equipment they need to carry in smaller cars. A vets boot is like Aladdin's cave :lol:


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I just took my mice to the vets, he saw three of them, had a good look at them, talked to me in depth about the medication and prescribed enough baytril to last a fortnight for 10 mice. The whopping bill was £13.50 . 

I have got another bill waiting for me as the treatment is ongoing, its for Bellas cut paw, shes had two out of hours appointments, an operation underanesthetic to stitch it up and 5 other appointments so far, as well as all the dressings and anti biotics. Its covered by the insurance as far as I know and they are claiming directly but I was told today that its going to be around £550. I dont think thats cheap but they did what I couldnt, they are always there when Ive needed them and they have so far earned their money in my opinion. I do wish it was a lot cheaper but I think the amount of training, unsociable hours worked etc have to be taken into consideration when you see the price, personally I think once you take off their overheads they earn their money.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

chichi said:


> Lol. ...the only tractors any vets round here see are their Chelsea Tractors on their drives. Not everyone lives on a farm you know.....
> 
> Honestly...do you really think a vet pays more than I do for a syringe of Panacur from the wbolesalers. I buy 3....do you think the Vet orders less than a couple of dozen. If I buy 10 the price per item goes down....yet you think the vet pays more.
> 
> Time I shut up and move away from this thread I think. Im close to the "reality" word and I dont want to offend anyone.


But if the vet paid the same as you for the product in the first place then he would still have to charge you 30 percent more so you still would not buy from him. I think you will find that vets make a fair mark up on drugs because they need it. 
Do you go into shops and price everything up, look it up on the internet and see if it is cheaper then complain about their prices!

Of course not everyone lives on a farm but most vets, apart from purely small animal practices, do have to go out to farms on a regular basis. My vets have a busy small animal practice which the vets rotate doing. The other vets are on the road all day every day covering a huge mileage and often having to drive on rough tracks. So yes, they do need a decent car.



emmaviolet said:


> My point was you don't NEED an expensive car to be reliable.
> Blitz said it had to be expensive to work and be reliabe whereas any car can go wrong.


Of course any car can go wrong but new ones are less likely to. You will probably find that most vets cars are, like any other business, on lease and are changed every 3 years or whatever automatically.



CavalierOwner said:


> Can someone answer me a question please? It's not meant to cause a huge argument, I genuinely don't know the answer!
> 
> Why does it cost so much just to see an emergency vet? I had to take my dog about 18months ago and it was basically £145 just for turning up, then I obviously had to pay for medication. I can see why people can't afford to take their dog to the emergency vets if they haven't got the funds! Fortunately I always save, so I have quite a bit put to one side plus they are all insured.
> 
> My vets now opens all day Sunday's so hopefully I won't need to go to an emergency vets again.


I think emergency vets are a huge other issue. I am shocked by what my vet charges for a call out out of hours but it is only a fraction of what some of you seem to pay with the emergency vets. Then again, what would a plumber charge if you called him out in the middle of the night or on a Sunday.
I would have a definite issue though with being charged £145 for a consultation.

Another thought just came to me. How many of you go to a chiropractor. I do and it is £45 for a twenty minute session. He does not have the training or the overheads of a vet.

I am not advocating vets that over charge and there is such a discrepancy in charges that some must be being greedy - but I think it most odd to resent the fact that a professional person has a decent car and actually earns a living. Just because they are treating animals why should they not earn money.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Current vets have never asked about the insurance status, they have just got on and done what was needed, and then asked for payment, and even though I've always paid in full up front, I know they accept payment over however long you agree.
> 
> I had an appointment on Tuesday of last week to have Rhuna's booster's done, I arrived with a pre booked appointment, and then stipulated she didn't have lepto as part of her boosters, as she's never had it. They not only phoned round to find a lepto free booster, they brought it over for free, never charged me for the initial consultation, had an out of hours meeting between the vets to discuss my concerns, contacted Pfizer to discuss my concerns, and contacted the person who has graduated top of the Glasgow Veterinary school to discuss my concerns, and asked me to forward details which they will consider. Bill came to less than £30, which is why I will argue the case if you find a good vet, they are worth their weight in gold.


I have only ever needed to get my dog treatment for something where I needed to use the insurance once... and I was asked. That is great your vet/s haven't asked that, but this vet DID.

It is great you have found such a great vet. That isn't possible for everyone. Firstly, my dogs are not at the vets often enough for me to suss out every vet in the area, and decide which ones are best for what things etc. Also, distance DOES matter. I don't drive and the vet I go to is either a 15 minute bus ride, a 30 minute walk or a 10 minute drive away. I usually walk, unless I am running late and then I will hop on the first bus that passes us on the walk. Also, I don't think vets like the one you described are fantastically common.

Now, for just general things, traveling far away is fine. But, if an emergency were to happen then no, I don't want to be traveling far. They say that once a dog bloats, you generally have 20 minutes... well, I don't want to be traveling to a vet some distance away, using a bus or taxi, when my dogs life is in the balance. I want to get to the vet as fast as possible. Same as if they were hit by a car, and had internal bleeding, had sliced their leg open and cut an artery etc etc. The vet I currently use is IMO close enough for most emergencies.

Of course I always want to get the best care for my dogs (and I am happy with the vet I usually go to in terms of care, as do most of the dog owners around here) but I also want to have a vet that is close by so I don't need to waste precious time when my dog is in a life or death situation.

Now, I am off to catch up with the rest of the thread


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

I think that on the whole, vets charge reasonable amounts, if you're not happy with what your vet charges then look around there are plenty in your areas (unless you're really rural). I went to one practice that came recommended and when one of the vets set up on her own I moved with her, as did a local dog rescue. She works damned long hours, as does the young lady that she's just taken on. I'm happyish with her charges but even if her prices increase I will stay with her as I have absolute trust in her. That to me is worth more than a quid or ten.  
In some cases the vets is cheaper, worming for instance, if I were to get the wormers from pets at home or similar it would cost me double what the vet would charge. 
Also look at it this way, vets is a private practice, if you were to see a private doctor then for initial consultation you would be looking to pay £150 let alone any treatments/medinces prescribed. So size ratio the vets ain't that bad.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

What Lozziebear says is very true, i thought about that the other day but then i came back to the thread it had veered off again.

If I chose a vet 20 miles away with traffic I am maybe looking at a possible 2 hour drive at the worst time of day, well with bloat or other things you would have no chance. Even like my other dog who had an extremely high temp where he had to have iv fluids it seemed he had had a stroke, 2 hours in the car would have been too much.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Jobeth said:


> I wondered why you were so bothered and wondered if you had an issue with your vet. I asked a simple question and got a rude and aggressive one in response. Says everything really.
> 
> As you asked-of course they make a profit. They have to pay overheads such as the electricity, rent etc. They also do it to pay their mortgage and fund some form of lifestyle. I have no idea what car my vet drives (other than they have a pet ambulance, which they have to pay for) and I don't care.


Rude and aggressive......seriously......if you ask a silly question you often get a snappy answer......but rude and aggressive....absolutely not


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> I think you will find you were answered, they have overheads to cover where as an online company has virtually no overheads. Have you any idea how much it is to run a business these days?
> 
> Seriously if you think vets rip people off as much as you think then why not train to be a vet so you can either join in the "fleecing of clients" or you can offer to work for next to nothing.
> 
> Let me know how that works out for you


For the LAST TIME I do not have an issue with my Vet. I simply am answering that rising vet fees are an absolute joke now....which everyone other than PF that I encounter seems to agree with.

Its rather churlish to tell me to become a vet really isnt it but I realise that people like yourself turn the tables on an argument....come up with answers that really arent answers at all and use lots of  to fill your post up.:thumbup:


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Having caught up with the thread now.....I think its got to one of those stages where everyone is repeating what has already been said because the same questions are being asked....ie do you complain about shop prices etc....... I cant be bothered to repeat myself again.....wasted effort.... so I shall leave it here.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2012)

chichi said:


> For the LAST TIME I do not have an issue with my Vet. I simply am answering that rising vet fees are an absolute joke now....which everyone other than PF that I encounter seems to agree with.
> 
> Its rather churlish to tell me to become a vet really isnt it but I realise that people like yourself turn the tables on an argument....come up with answers that really arent answers at all and use lots of  to fill your post up.:thumbup:


Bless ya 

FYI you know nothing about me


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

chichi said:


> Rude and aggressive......seriously......if you ask a silly question you often get a snappy answer......but rude and aggressive....absolutely not


Just because you didn't seem to understand why vets charge more it was sensible to suggest you discuss it with your vet. I've read your comments on the other thread and not surprised at all how others have felt about your rudeness. Maybe you should think before you post?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Jobeth said:


> Just because you didn't seem to understand why vets charge more it was sensible to suggest you discuss it with your vet. I've read your comments on the other thread and not surprised at all how others have felt about your rudeness. Maybe you should think before you post?


Well being as your bringing another thread up I will comment......I was put in the firing line on that thread because I said it was out of order for one member to tell another to F*** off.....as they had done...which I find disgusting....you didnt mention that though when coming on this thread and speaking of another which quite honestly I find petty.

Your input to this thread Was as good as nothing anyway. All youve done is question me And give your opinion on me which which is not entirely relevant to the subject. Oh well

And I did think before sending this post. Any further posts on this thread directed at me by you will be ignored but I doubt that will stop you......have a ball:thumbup:


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

chichi said:


> Well being as your bringing another thread up I will comment......I was put in the firing line on that thread because I said it was out of order for one member to tell another to F*** off.....as they had done...which I find disgusting....you didnt mention that though when coming on this thread and speaking of another which quite honestly I find petty.


Didn't you then say that you would follow up someone telling you to F**k off in the street by giving them a clout??

Double standards me thinks...don't swear, but violence is ok?? :thumbup:


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Horse and Hound said:


> Didn't you then say that you would follow up someone telling you to F**k off in the street by giving them a clout??
> 
> Double standards me thinks...don't swear, but violence is ok?? :thumbup:


Absolutely.....whatever you say:thumbup:

Do you have anything to add to the topic or do you just want to argue like a child. Shame that some of you are such sad individuals that you follow a member around looking for an argument 

I only came back to this thread to see if the discussion had progressed but no...just more rubbish about another thread. I guess this is the way this thread is going to carry on now so I shall not even bother checking back. But hey...if you need an argument to keep you happy then reply but it will be wasted on me Im afraid. For those that cant move on and feel the need to be petty bringing other threads up that are totally OT....perhaps a hobby would enrich your little lives to stop you seeking arguments. Have a nice day.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Well it's a shame that it has gone back to petty bickering again.

Back on topic, there is a good article in dogs monthly about this very topic. Written by a vet too.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I'm just ignoring them and shall continue to do so as their attack on me was unjustified and as they have done it to others doesn't bother me. 

Can you do a link to the article or summarise what they thought?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sorry it's in a magazine I had bought last week but only now getting rund to having a look, there seems to have been a series about it too so I'm going to have a read of the past issues too.

She is of the opinion that not every practice should have all the high tech machines etc just because and there is an argument to be made about specialist vets who work on particular areas.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Mine is like that as it is a small village one, but in the next village there is a very large medical centre that serves the locality and takes in horses etc.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2012)

chichi said:


> Absolutely.....whatever you say:thumbup:
> 
> Do you have anything to add to the topic or do you just want to argue like a child. Shame that some of you are such sad individuals that you follow a member around looking for an argument
> 
> I only came back to this thread to see if the discussion had progressed but no...just more rubbish about another thread. I guess this is the way this thread is going to carry on now so I shall not even bother checking back. But hey...if you need an argument to keep you happy then reply but it will be wasted on me Im afraid. For those that cant move on and feel the need to be petty bringing other threads up that are totally OT....perhaps a hobby would enrich your little lives to stop you seeking arguments. Have a nice day.


What's with this passive aggressive behaviour?
You do know that if you continue to engage in something you have already said that you won't is still engaging in it right?

To me it seems you enjoy rubbing members up the wrong way  So for now you shall be popped on to my ignore list so that I don't feel the urge to reply anymore


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As this has descending into yet more petty, school-yard bickering it is being closed.


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