# Some questions before I commit.



## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I would like to get either some gold fish or some warm water fish. I've had goldfish in the past but I've never kept tropical fish. I don't think I'm ready for a big commitment like marine fish yet as my uncle keeps them and he's told me they are a lot of work.

I have a 1ft glass clearseal tank with no lid (it has wire mesh over it as it has been used as a hamster home. But looking at the price of filters, etc I'm wondering if it's just cheaper to buy a set up. I'm not sure how many fish I could keep in a 1 ft tank so I was wondering if I can keep up to 3 or 4?

Is it possible to get lids with lights in seperate from the tank and are they really expensive?

I want one of those filters that you wash but they don't need refils (do they still do those and are they any good?).

So tank wise I can either set up my 1ft tank but it doesn't have a lid (I have a cat so it has to have a lid).

Or I could get something like this and I'm no good with ft to ltrs so I'm not sure which is bigger. Cool 21ltr Blue Goldfish Aquarium Kit by Marina | Pets at Home

I really don't want to spend more than £50 if I can help it as this is the first time since I was a kid that I've considered pet fish and would like to transition slowly. I don't want a bowl though because of the surface area and I've had bad experiances but I've heard good things about Biorb and was wondering if it was any good or if anyone can recomend me a good starter for around £50?

Thanks.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Give me the measurment for the 1 ft tank and I will tell you the litres


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Give me the measurment for the 1 ft tank and I will tell you the litres


25, 26 (high) and 45 wide. in cms


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Maiisiku said:


> 25, 26 (high) and 45 wide. in cms


what is the measurment front to back


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

25 cms front to back.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

ok 25cm x 26cm x 45cm = 29250 cubic cm. 
1000 cubic cm = 1 litre
so this tank is 29.250 litres or 6.44 gallons not allowing for sand and rocks ect.
For future reference
12 inches x 12 inches x 12 inches = 1728 cubic inches or 1 cubic foot and that is 6.2 gallons 
1 gallon = 4.54 litres
1 gallon weighs 10 lb
1 litre weighs 1 kg


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

Is it 1 inch per ltr or was it gallon? I think it would make more sense if it was gallon. So if goldfish are from 1-4 cms I could keep 2 in there as they'd need 1-4 gallons each and it's a 6.44 gallon tank. I think I might try and get something bigger.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

As a very general guide it's 1 inch to a gallon, not forgeting that
12 x 1 inch zebra danios is not the same as 1 x 12 inch oscar (obviously body depth and width is increased along with length)
a 6 inch plec is not going to produce the same amount of waste as a 6 inch silver shark (the more active a fish is the more food and oxygen it will use and so the more waste it will produce)
the lower temperature water of a cold water tank will hold more oxygen than a tropical tank (heat a pan of water and watch the gasses bubble out) but a tropical tank will have a much more efficient bio filter (food is kept in a fridge to slow down bacterial activity)
apart from a marine tank where I would never use a filter, different types of filter and filter media have different levels of efficiency. I hanen't used filters for years so am not up to date on these.
oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange will only happen at the surface so a long, wide and shallow 10 gallon tank is better than a short, narrow and deep 10 gallon tank. A stream of bubbles from an air pump only helps becase the bubbles pull water up to the suface from the lower levels.
Back to you tank, while you should get away with two small goldfish they are not going to stay small for long. Don't forget you have to take off water to allow for rocks and gravel ect so your 6.44 gallon tank might only be 5 gallons. If I were you I would look for a bigger basic tank with just a lid and go from there.


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

first of all, i would steer clear of goldfish. the minimum requirements for fancy goldfish (such as oranda) are about 40-50L per fish, and for standard goldies (such as comets and shubunkins) your looking at 90-100L per fish. and when you consider they like to be in groups, even if you go for the smaller fancies, your gonna need a very large tank!

however, you do have a few other options. if you didnt want the bother of a heater, then there are some small temperate fish that would do well in a setup like that. the two most common of these are White Cloud Mountain Minnors, and Zebra Danios. these fish stay small, and you could fit a small shoal of about five in a tank like yours.

however, another option, is to simply add a heater. this will open up the world of tropical fish to you, of which there is far more choice! there are many species of small tetra, dano and lovebearer which are more than suited to a small tank such as yours. obviously, the amount you can put in is still pretty limited (perhaps 5 or 6 maximum), but there is far more choice!

hope this helps in making your decision. dont forget to cycle the tank fully before you add any fish! 

Fishy


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. We decided to start off small mainly because hubby thinks I should go in slowly to start with. So he said I could have 2 fish in a gold fish bowl to start with and then save up some money each month and get a 60ltr when I have enough money. So I think I'm going to do that and buy them a big tank in the summer holidays. I'm not going for tropical fish just yet. I'll see how I go with cold water. But I'm quite happy with my two goldfish for now and I'll do more research for my upgrade because I know they can't stay in a bowl forever and I wouldn't want them to because I'd feel mean. I got them a bridge to hide under, and some tap safe and I left the tap safe in. It's a really basic set up and I think I just needed to take a step. I've been thinking about getting fish for a really long time so I'm happy we did.


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## mattstringfellow (Jan 21, 2010)

i would get some white cloud mountain minnows they look good. or danios they will be fine in a cold water tank most places say they need warm water but they are fine in cold


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2010)

While WCMM's would be fine, in all honesty, I wouldn't even consider danios and most tetras (with the exception of Ember tetras, _Hyphessobrycon amandae_). Yes, they are small, but their active behaviour warrants a tank at least 2ft long.

I would consider the likes of Microrasboras, the Ember tetras mentioned earlier, Pygmy corydoras (_Corydoras pygmaeous_) or Sparkling gouramis (_Trichopsis pumila_).


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

While tetras are lovely and one of my favorite fish since childhood. I just don't have the money or the space for a tank that would do them justice. I'd want a school of at least 10-15 and if I were to get a school that big I'd want a 6ft tank so that I could add in other fish too. I love warm water fish but I think I'm going to put off going down that path for a little longer. We are moving abroad in 3 ish years time and then I can think about it. I'm looking at getting a Biorb 60ltr cold water tank with a light and filter that way when I move I can get a heater and convert it. I should be able to keep a few more fish in there hopefully. So I'll have the 2 goldfish in there and then maybe get 2 fanfish and a moor.


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## mattstringfellow (Jan 21, 2010)

good point pleccy didn't think of that lol :thumbup:


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## mattstringfellow (Jan 21, 2010)

good luck with your tank :thumbup:


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2010)

Maiisiku said:


> Thanks for all the advice. We decided to start off small mainly because hubby thinks I should go in slowly to start with. So he said I could have 2 fish in a gold fish bowl to start with and then save up some money each month and get a 60ltr when I have enough money. So I think I'm going to do that and buy them a big tank in the summer holidays. I'm not going for tropical fish just yet. I'll see how I go with cold water. But I'm quite happy with my two goldfish for now and I'll do more research for my upgrade because I know they can't stay in a bowl forever and I wouldn't want them to because I'd feel mean. I got them a bridge to hide under, and some tap safe and I left the tap safe in. It's a really basic set up and I think I just needed to take a step. I've been thinking about getting fish for a really long time so I'm happy we did.





Maiisiku said:


> While tetras are lovely and one of my favorite fish since childhood. I just don't have the money or the space for a tank that would do them justice. I'd want a school of at least 10-15 and if I were to get a school that big I'd want a 6ft tank so that I could add in other fish too. I'm looking at getting a Biorb 60ltr cold water tank with a light and filter. I should be able to keep a few more fish in there hopefully. So I'll have the 2 goldfish in there and then maybe get 2 fanfish and a moor.


Don't start with goldfish in a bowl full stop, it's hardly something that I would recommend and I can 97% guarantee that the fish will be dead or suffering from disease within a few weeks. All varieties of goldfish are from the same species, _Carrasius auratus_, so they all share the same DNA. However small changes in their genes (genetic variation) result in different strains.

Goldfish can grow pretty big, the common varieties can top 30cm/12" and the fancy strains a pretty chunky 15-20cm/6-8". Respectively, they either need a spacious pond or a BIG tank (something in the region of 4ft would be needed for four fancy goldfish).

If you must have a Bi-orb (a.k.a overpriced goldfish bowls) then please reconsider tropicals. They are far more suitable for beginners than goldfish when you take sizes into consideration and for the sake of a £15 heater, it's worth every penny in the long run. Many species are actually hardier than goldfish, which are sometimes riddled with disease and genetic defects from mass breeding in fish farms.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Please, please please don't go with goldfish. They couldn't really be less suitable for a 30L tank. 

The great thing about fishkeeping is that there are species and stock to suit set-ups of all different sizes and all entry levels to the hobby. Researching it properly now will save you the money, the time, the frustration and the heartache that comes with getting it wrong in the first instance. I'll PM you a good dedicated forum for fishy advice that will help give you the best list of options for your tank.


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

yeah, you may not know this, but goldfish bowls are actually banned in a lot of european countries now (and i wish the british government wouldnt drag their heels on the issue), due to them being pretty cruel. please do not get a goldfish bowl, as goldfish really dont survive in them, and its pretty nasty for them to endure, even if you do intend to move to a larger tank later on. and you must make sure when you do get a tank, that you cycle the tank for a minimum of 4-6 weeks before you get the fish! this is unavoidable im afraid!

as for biorbs, most respectable fishkeepers dont rate them at all, due to their shape (round tanks and orbs allow less oxygen in the tank), and very poor filtration. they look nice certainly, but as a system they have some major shortcomings. in a 60L biorb you probably wouldnt be able to put even a single goldfish in happily! if you really want to go with goldfish, then the absolute minimum tank you should consider is 100L, and even then your limiting yourself to only 1 or 2 fish. if you go for smaller fish, whether tropical or the coldwater minnows and danios, you can have so many more!


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I feel a bit silly. I really should stop listning to people in pet shops. I went in today in a veiw to get a set up. The woman in the shop told me that the fish wouldn't get bigger than the tank you put them in. I did get a bowl, I was planning to pop them in there while I clean out my 1ft tank, make sure it's still water tight and then put the tapsafe stuff in so that the chloreen comes out of the water and then change them over to my 1ft. I really wish I'd have known before I actually got them because we went earlier today. 

I don't have to have a BiOrb they do look nice but if they arn't good for the fish I'd rather put £100 into getting a better tank. If the goldfish die because I messed up I will be annoyed. How many feet is a 100ltr? I wanted to get 2 gold fish, 2 vailtails or fantails and a moorfish. But I wasn't planning on doing this till august. I am planning on saving up from now until then for a decent set up from between £100 and £200. So something big like a 6ft tank! Would they be ok in a 1ft tank until then? 

I really apeciate the advice thank you.


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

Okay, here is the deal. By Marine fish, you uncle means salt water, and salt water can be VERY difficult. So avoid that area until you think you have enough knowledge and experience to handle it. Example: I know a lot about fish, and am very knowledgeable, but I do not believe I'm ready for SW, even though I have thought about it.
Gold fish are fine to keep, the only problem being, like I'm sure others have said before, is they create a LOT of waste, and if you keep them in small tanks or if you keep too many of them, it can be harmful. I thought I saw somewhere that somebody said keeping a gold in a bowl was "a very bad idea!", where I agree that it is bad, it can be done if you take proper care. I've kept goldfish and bettas my entire life, and I tell you right now, there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping them in a bowl, IF, and it's a big IF, you change water out every day, and clean gravel out once a week. BIG IF!! When you fail to do this is when your fish get rot fin, and fungus, or even ammonia poisoning! :eek6:
Like I said, daily water changes of at least 30% and weekly gravel cleanings. 

With that said, tropical fish are not difficult at all to care for. Basically, if you know what to do, and have good common sense, anybody can keep tropical fish! 
I keep platies, mollies, danios, cichlids, bettas, and a whole bunch of other fish I bet you haven't ever heard of, and of course my gold fish.  Basically, get yourself a good heater(this is something you DO NOT want to go cheap with, I recommend the Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth heaters(Pro is best) and perhaps a thermometer) and a good water testing kit. 

Water quality is VERY important, water temperatures should be kept in a range of 76 degrees F to 80 degrees F.(24 degrees C to 26 degrees C...sorry, not very good at converting F to C) and should always be cycled before adding fish. pH levels, ammonia levels, nitrite levels, and nitrate levels are to be monitored. Daily or every-other-day checks are necessary for optimal fish health. Normally, most tropical fish like a pH level of 7-8, but not all fish like this, which is why it's very important to do plenty of research on the fish you want before you buy it. In a properly cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite levels should be 0, and nitrate levels should be between 5-10, unless you have a live plant that eats the nitrate, or use chemicals or other means to remove the nitrates.

Cycling is pretty easy, and there are several ways to do it. The first, and easiest method, is a fish-less cycle. It usually takes from 2 weeks to a month(could be longer if tank is bigger) Basically, let your tank run without fish in it, add a pinch of food every day, OR put a piece of raw or dead fish in the tank. So long as ammonia gets in there and kept under control. You could even go as far as to add pure ammonia to the water, so long as it has no added chemicals that could be harmful to bacteria, fish, or live plants. Do daily 10% water changes to keep the water nice and clean, and test daily. The water may get cloudy, that is not a problem, it is usually a bacterial bloom, doing a 30-50% water change should remove the cloudiness. 
Another, unrecommended, method is to do a fish-in cycle. Basically, you add your fish without cycling and let the ammonia they produce cycle the tank. This can be harmful to your fish if not done properly. Do daily water changes of 20%, and check water parameters daily.
But like I said, I do not recommend this. And also remember, when your tank finishes cycling and you do not put fish in just yet, it is important to continue adding ammonia to the water. The bacteria that form in the water basically eat the ammonia, and turn it into nitrite, then another kind of bacteria change nitrite to nitrate. You have to feed this bacteria just like you would feed fish. Keep enough ammonia in there so long as there are no fish.

And the one suggestion I can give you, is DO RESEARCH. I cannot stress how important it is to know as much about your fish as possible BEFORE you get it. If they like salt in the water, add some salt.(not kitchen or iodized salt)If they like heavily planted tanks, put a lot of plants and hiding places, if they like lightly planted tanks, put a few plants, but still make hiding places. Be sure to dechlorinate the water if you use city water.

Another recommendation I can make, is to always have a hiding place for your fish, they will be less stressed out, and be a lot more active if they know they have a place they can hide. Feed them several times a day rather than having one big feeding, and vacuum the gravel weekly. Also try to give your fish a variety in feeding, feed them flakes one day, then some veggies or fruits, then some blood worms or some other form of live or freeze dried foods. I feed my fish flakes three times a day, twice a week I feed them freeze dried tubiflex worms, and throw in a piece of broccoli, apple, or some peas occasionally. They won't know what the veggies are at first, but they will get use to them. It is very good for them to eat their veggies! 

I really hope this helped, because if it didn't I just wasted 30 minutes. :eek6:
Good luck! And if there are any questions, please, do not hesitate to ask. There are never any dumb questions, and I am always here to help! 
-Ben


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank you so much that is a lot of infomation and yes it was helpful. Sat down with hubby and basically he's said save up  I'm going to save up £200 and get a 110ltr tropical tank. Of course I'm still keeping the goldfish I've brought they are now in the 1ft tank and not the bowl. I will get them a filter when I get paid next week. The first thing I brought them was a bridge which they could hide under. I'm also going to get some plants for them. If they get too big for the 1ft which I'm sure they will I'll upgrade them. My uncle also has a huge pond which he has fish in so if they outgrow a tank I can send them to live with him.

Will not be getting the tropical tank until august and will then need to cycle it for about 4 weeks so will have plenty of time between now and then to do research. I already have an idea on which fish I would like to get. 
Bristlenose Pleco, Cardinal Tetra, Glowlight Danio and Guppies. 

Probably have lots of questions between now and then.
Thank you everyone for your advice.


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

Not a problem. Goldfish do tend to get quite big, so a nice pond sounds good for them. Just be sure you don't keep the gold with the tropical fish, they have different water requirements, and I'm pretty sure I've read(never tried) that fish like mollies don't get along with goldfish.
Also, if you are going to add tetras, forget everything I said about the salt. Salt can be harmful to scaleless fish such as tetras or catfish.
Other than that, I think you're good to go! Good luck with your tank!
-Ben


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I won't be keeping marines. My uncle has kept them for years and he said it's too much work for a begginer. I will keep fresh water fish though. I'm looking at saving up for a 110ltr juwel rekord. The only thing is the stands are soo expensive for the juwel rekord 800.


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

That's a pretty snazzy looking tank. I'm excited for you, all I have is basic 10(37l) and 20(75l) gallon tanks with plain old glass hoods and florescent tubes. Good for plants, though. 110liters(29gallons) make a decent sized tank, I was actually saving up for a 40 gallon(151l) tank to put my tropical fish in. I will have to put some pictures of my tanks up for you! 

Maybe you could find a substitute stand for your tank? Or do those tanks only work for the stands Juwel makes?


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

Here is my 20gallon community tank. This picture is about a week old, I have put fish in it now, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as it did then.


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

This is my betta's tank. Yeah...I named him Jack Sparrow. :thumbup:








































That's all for now, my sister kidnapped my camera so I can't use it to take pictures of my cichlid tank. Or any new pics of my 20.

Here is the fish I have; Jack is a Red Devil Crowntail Betta, and in there with him is a snail and 4 golden zebra danios. In my 20, I have 4 Red Wag Platies, 4 Black Mollies, 4 Dalmatian Mollies, and two glass fish. And I have 2 Kenyi African Cichlids in my cichlid tank.
Oh, I guess I'll have to get pics of the golds and my other betta now...Eh, I have to wait till I get my camera back.


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

They look great  

The goldfish are doing fine actually. They love their plant and haven't really bothered when I feed them. I guess they are eating the plant. I do wish I'd of known about the length before I got them. But my uncle has agreed that when they get to 3 inches (maximum each for my tank) that he will take them and they can go into his pond. In which case that tank will get used for quarenteen etc. 

I'm thinking it's going to be july before I can buy my tank and august/september before I can put any fish in so I have plenty of time to research between now and then.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

There is a problem with juwel rekords - in their most recent models they have began making their lights so that only juwel light tubes can be used in the tank. That way you will permanently be having to try and sources a juwel dealer. When my my firend was having this problem he went for the eheim aquastar 80. It holds 96 litres and in just less than 3 foot long. It looks just as good as a juwel rekord.


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I'll be buying all my stuff online. I don't drive so it has to come from the internet. So it doesn't matter if they only take the juwel tubes. I looked at an Elite 95ltr but the price between the two isn't much and you get a cabenet with the juwel which is good storage for my pet supplies. I doubt the lights go very often and I'll just buy a backup.


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## fatHamsta (Mar 26, 2010)

Yeah, if you have live plants with goldfish they will eat it. Mollies and Platies will do the same thing. 
Angus brings up a good point to me. That does sound like it could be frustrating. A broken bulb would not be the only reason you would get a new one, I've gotten new bulbs because my old one was too bright, or too hot, or not bright or not hot enough. Even the color has thrown me off before. I've gotten bulbs that put off more of a blueish color rather than the desired "white and bright" type deal. Sometimes the lights just take up too much wattage. 

So there really are a lot of variables that can get thrown into the mix...
But if you really want that specific tank, we can't stop you.


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

We'll see. I'm currently looking at a 168ltr on ebay, it doesn't come with a filter or heater but if it goes cheap enough I might get it. I have bid on a 1ft tank which I intend on using as a quarenteen tank, hoping to get it for £1  As for the big tank I will see what happens with the one on ebay. I may possibly go for a 95ltr instead if I can't get the other one but I am not sure right now I'm just going to see what happens after all the bills are paid.


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## mattstringfellow (Jan 21, 2010)

i would go for the eheim aquastar 80 becuase i have one and it is worth the money and it is much cheaper that the rekord!!!! and better quality becuase my m8 has one and it got a crack right through the front glass. also the light holder fell of also the filter is way to small and the media need replacing every other week because its to small, also the stand is not stable. hope you find a good tank:thumbup:


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks, after getting in contact with my uncle I might be getting a tank off ebay second hand. Depends what the auction goes too. He's going to take me to pick it up and might have some bits he doesn't need that I can have. He's been keeping fish for years so we'll see. 168ltr tank is what I'm hoping for and a 1ft (29ltr) tank which i will use as a quarenteen tank. But if not he's going to get me hold of something else though his friend who works in a fish shop.


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## thedeans (Apr 8, 2009)

I've never had any probs with juwel tanks - infact they are quite user friendly as a novice tank as they come with everything. In my experience the lights have always been fine - when you get into it if you buy a decent sized one (say 4ft) I would recommend adding another filter at the other end of the tank to prevent any dead spots - it also helps when having to clean or replace filter pads - ebay is a great place to get cheap 2nd hand tanks - just keep a look out

Oh wanted to add - I was refering to the rio and vision models - the record is a nightmare as you have to remove the whole lid to clean the tank, which then drips water everywhere due to condensation in the lid and is fiddly to put back on avoiding the wires


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I brought a second hand tank on ebay. It's 168ltrs with a cabnet and I also got a 29ltr small tank with some type of filter so it will be my quarenteen tank. I'm hoping to pick it up either tomorrow or saturday but I have to wait for the seller to send me times and addresses etc. I'm planning on getting either a rena, fluvel or equivilent filter and a 200watt heater for the 168ltr and a small 50watt heater for the 29ltr.

My clearseal pump came for the goldfish today. I must say for a 29ltr tank it's pretty decent. It seems to really be doing it's job. The goldfish love the bubbles. When they get too big for the tank they are going to a pond and I might get a lighting system and turn it into another tropical tank. But we'll see what happens. My goldfish are tiny!


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