# Raw mince or other raw meat



## witcheswalk (Aug 27, 2010)

Hi I am interested in feeding my dog some raw meat in her diet and wondered what would be suitable to feed along with her dry complete food? Would raw mince be ok to feed her mixed in with a smaller amount of her dry food? If so, what kind of mince? x


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

Raw food and complete food digest at completely different rates so they should never be fed together in the same meal. You are OK have 1 complete meal a day and 1 raw meal, but never mix the two.


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## witcheswalk (Aug 27, 2010)

Hi, thanks for the reply. I didnt realise that. Does the raw digest quicker? So would it be ok to give complete in the morning so it has all day to digest, and raw at tea time so it has time to digest (for toilet's sake) before bed time? xx


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

witcheswalk said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply. I didnt realise that. Does the raw digest quicker? So would it be ok to give complete in the morning so it has all day to digest, and raw at tea time so it has time to digest (for toilet's sake) before bed time? xx


Thats exactly what I do  My 2 get a complete food in the morning (just cuz its easier when in a rush to get ready for work) and they have a raw only meal in the evening


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## witcheswalk (Aug 27, 2010)

Thats great, can I be nosey and ask what you generally give them as raw in the evening? x


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

witcheswalk said:


> Thats great, can I be nosey and ask what you generally give them as raw in the evening? x


I buy most of my raw food from here Berriewood - Frozen Meats for Dogs and I buy a mixture of the mince blocks, free flow minces & meat chunks, fish chunks, chicken wings, tripe etc and whatever meat product they have I always give them pulped fruit and veg and then every so often add things like raw egg (including shell) yogurt, cheese, rice, pasta and then we have the bones meals which we only really do 1 to 2 times a week because a lot of the minces I have have bone content and too much bone for my 2 blocks them up really badly.

I'd say if you want to start feeding raw, buying in bulk works out cheaper, so a big freezer is a must, we have a deperate dog freezer in the garage

Just want to edit to add, dogs also need offal in their diet such things like liver, kidney, heart etc - However as I have Dalmatians and one is a stone former I do not feed any form of offal as this is highly dangerous for stone forming dogs. If I had any other breed, offal would most definitely be on the menu and you can buy these in bulk from the same place where you would buy any other frozen raw food


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

I feed both together to be honest, but if she's to have a meaty bone, she gets that instead of mixed in the evening.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

gillieworm said:


> I buy most of my raw food from here Berriewood - Frozen Meats for Dogs and I buy a mixture of the mince blocks, free flow minces & meat chunks, fish chunks, chicken wings, tripe etc and whatever meat product they have I always give them pulped fruit and veg and then every so often add things like raw egg (including shell) yogurt, cheese, rice, pasta and then we have the bones meals which we only really do 1 to 2 times a week because a lot of the minces I have have bone content and too much bone for my 2 blocks them up really badly.
> 
> I'd say if you want to start feeding raw, buying in bulk works out cheaper, so a big freezer is a must, we have a deperate dog freezer in the garage
> 
> Just want to edit to add, dogs also need offal in their diet such things like liver, kidney, heart etc - However as I have Dalmatians and one is a stone former I do not feed any form of offal as this is highly dangerous for stone forming dogs. If I had any other breed, offal would most definitely be on the menu and you can buy these in bulk from the same place where you would buy any other frozen raw food


How do you substitute for the nutrients that are found in offal? And I take it you don't feed any venison, fish etc either as these tend to be high in purines too?


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

I also like to feed a percentage of meat, usually raw, as well as a complete as it adds variety to their diet, I use butchers scraps and the rabbits that they catch but avoid pet quality mince as it may well contain a lot of bacteria etc. Dogs digestive systems are designed to deal with food digestion timing and feeding some mince, either cooked or raw, with a complete shouldnt be a challenge, next theyll be saying fat and protein need separating as they digest at different rates. Offal is a cheap source of meat but doesnt really have special qualities, other than causing dietary imbalance if over fed, and so not giving it wont be a problem although the complete will most likely contain some anyway.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I stay away from dry but Jack had a RMB diet in the day and some Nature Diet for his evening meal


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

sandymere said:


> I also like to feed a percentage of meat, usually raw, as well as a complete as it adds variety to their diet, I use butchers scraps and the rabbits that they catch but avoid pet quality mince as it may well contain a lot of bacteria etc. Dogs digestive systems are designed to deal with food digestion timing and feeding some mince, either cooked or raw, with a complete shouldnt be a challenge, next theyll be saying fat and protein need separating as they digest at different rates. Offal is a cheap source of meat but *doesnt really have special qualities*, other than causing dietary imbalance if over fed, and so not giving it wont be a problem although the complete will most likely contain some anyway.


Doesn't contain anything, eh?


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I thought its packed full of goodness, I have to mince tiny bits of the liver into some mince for Jack he hates the texture


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

I feed raw with an equal amount of kibble (orijen in my case). Raw mince will digest quicker as it's mainly water, however, kibble digestion rates will vary depending on it's quality. A cheap kibble full of grains and rice which are difficult for dogs to digest, will be slower than a grain free kibble like Orijen. I've never had a problem, even when feeding lower quality kibble (Royal Canin). You will usually see quotes of 5-6 hours for raw to digest and 15 for kibble as these are the most extreme figures. In reality kibble is generally below 10, with more digestable ones lower. I did have a link to a study with fact and figures but I seem to have lost it


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Doesn't contain anything, eh?


No I didn't say doesnt contain anything now did I? Lets not try making any straw men. I can get technical about amino acids and mineral densities if you like.:001_cool: If you feel you have something to add Im always looking to learn more in this area so please post it.:arf:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

sandymere said:


> No I didn't say doesn't contain anything now did I? Let's not try making any straw men. I can get technical about amino acids and mineral densities if you like.:001_cool: If you feel you have something to add I'm always looking to learn more in this area so please post it.:arf:


No, you keep throwing the onus for info back at people. You post why you think that offal is JUST another cheap meat with no other special qualities? How about Vitamin A for example or iron?

And tbh, I am not sure who you are kidding. But you seem to be one of the last people on here willing to learn something new.


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## JohnT (Oct 1, 2010)

I feed mine mainly Acana, sometimes Orijen and raw meat, which I get from my butchers.

I feed together and have never had any problems, mixed in well etc.

They also get bones and chicken wings.

Better fed than me I think


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

hobbs2004 said:


> How do you substitute for the nutrients that are found in offal? And I take it you don't feed any venison, fish etc either as these tend to be high in purines too?


Use substitute vits as better to do that then feed your dog something that could potentially lead to an early death 

Stone forming is a nasty painful disease and can either result in drastic surgery which alters the whole mechanism of how the dog urinates, or if not treated quickly can lead to death. When you have a stone former, trust me, you don't mess about with food, if its a no no food, it never gets fed.

ETA: Yes do feed fish, but usually white none oily vaiety


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## SashaXx (Sep 3, 2010)

I feed kibble in the morning and raw in the evenings. I order all my meat from durham animal feeds and get the few odd bits and bobs from the butchers. I do feed offal (not everyday a couple of times a week). Would a dog really need offal if its feed both a complete and raw meat diet? Just thinking kibble is considered complete by itself anyway?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

SashaXx said:


> I feed kibble in the morning and raw in the evenings. I order all my meat from durham animal feeds and get the few odd bits and bobs from the butchers. I do feed offal (not everyday a couple of times a week). Would a dog really need offal if its feed both a complete and raw meat diet? Just thinking kibble is considered complete by itself anyway?


Hopefully someone who knows specifics on dogs will be along to answer this question but from a cat perspective, the rule is that you don't need to worry about the raw being balanced (meat/bone/offal) when you feed less than 20% of the weekly meals as raw. Anything above that and it would make sense to ensure that the raw cat food, and I strongly presume dog food also, contains the necessary nutrients to make it "complete".


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> No, you keep throwing the onus for info back at people. You post why you think that offal is JUST another cheap meat with no other special qualities? How about Vitamin A for example or iron?
> 
> And tbh, I am not sure who you are kidding. But you seem to be one of the last people on here willing to learn something new.


So you suggest that muscle meat doesn't contain adequate amounts of these minerals? Are you really suggesting that muscle meat ie a steak etc is poor in iron? :scared:Lordy please tell me more:lol: 
As for vit A

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7349980.stm


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

sandymere said:


> So you suggest that muscle meat doesn't contain adequate amounts of these minerals? Are you really suggesting that muscle meat ie a steak etc is poor in iron? :scared:Lordy please tell me more:lol:


Not what I am suggesting at all. 

Lordy, I am still waiting on your reply where you were going to show us that offal is "just" some cheap meat. Oh, and no irrelevant links to external sites, please! For example, what has this link got to do with raw feeding: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7349980.stm

Incidentally, gram for gram (or mg for mg rather) pig lung has more iron than pig shoulder, for example.


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

sandymere said:


> So you suggest that muscle meat doesn't contain adequate amounts of these minerals? Are you really suggesting that muscle meat ie a steak etc is poor in iron? :scared:Lordy please tell me more:lol:
> As for vit A
> 
> BBC NEWS | Health | Vitamins 'may shorten your life'


Can't seem to find where Hobbs said that, in fact he seems to be trying to make the opposite point.



sandymere said:


> No I didn't say doesnt contain anything now did I?


No, what you actually said was



sandymere said:


> Offal is a cheap source of meat but doesnt really have special qualities, other than causing dietary imbalance if over fed, and so not giving it wont be a problem although the complete will most likely contain some anyway.


So it was originally you that suggested that offal was lacking as a viable food source.

Offal is an essential source of phosphorous as well as many other minerals and should be fed in approximately equal quantities to bone to balance with calcium, which is another important part of a balanced diet. Offal should be fed to compliment the rest of the diet. If feeding a combination of raw and kibble then you need to look closely at the contents of the kibble in question and make sure that your raw feed does not overdo any particular aspect of the diet.

Going back to the OP, if feeding occasional meals raw a couple of times a week in addition to a main diet of a complete kibble then I really wouldn't worry about upsetting the balance at all. Just feed what you can get hold of but try to vary the meat source as often as possible. For those occasional meals you could also try a commercial complete raw alternative, such as Nature Diet or Wainwrights wet.


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Not what I am suggesting at all.
> 
> Lordy, I am still waiting on your reply where you were going to show us that offal is "just" some cheap meat. Oh, and no irrelevant links to external sites, please! For example, what has this link got to do with raw feeding: BBC NEWS | Health | Vitamins 'may shorten your life'
> 
> Incidentally, gram for gram (or mg for mg rather) pig lung has more iron than pig shoulder, for example.


Still building straw men:lol: Is offal expensive your way? And do dogs need extra iron? I expect there'd be plenty enough in the pig shoulder:001_cool: there is plenty of minerals in none offal and to much iron etc is harmful as the body is unable to excrete the excess.
The link in the previous post demonstrates that to many vits or minerals may not be a good thing and as offal contains large amounts it may cause imbalance rather than balance and certainly are not a necessity in the diet, small amount shouldn't be a problem but going without wouldn't hurt either..


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

sandymere said:


> Still building straw men:lol: Is offal expensive your way? And do dogs need extra iron? I expect there'd be plenty enough in the pig shoulder:001_cool: there is plenty of minerals in none offal and to much iron etc is harmful as the body is unable to excrete the excess.
> The link in the previous post demonstrates that to many vits or minerals may not be a good thing and as offal contains large amounts it may cause imbalance rather than balance and certainly are not a necessity in the diet, small amount shouldn't be a problem but going without wouldn't hurt either..


Not building straw men at all but you continue evading the question that you yourself posed. How about some evidence that raw fed dogs or cats don't need offal? That they get all that they need from the muscle meat.

Do you know how much iron dogs need? Do you know how much raw meat you would need to feed in order to satisfy that need? How much Vit A? D? E? How many B vitamins? etc etc?


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

Jasper's Bloke said:


> Can't seem to find where Hobbs said that, in fact he seems to be trying to make the opposite point.
> 
> No, what you actually said was
> 
> ...


Offal isnt an essential source of anything including phosphorous as this is common in all body tissues, especially bones and as with iron is dangerous if over fed. All basic biology really.
Phosphorus in diet: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

sandymere said:


> Offal isnt an essential source of anything including phosphorous as this is common in all body tissues, especially bones and as with iron is dangerous if over fed. All basic biology really.
> Phosphorus in diet: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


Once again you insist on using links to information regarding human physiology, you do understand that dogs are a different species don't you?

Offal and bone are important parts of a raw diet as both contain elements that are not present in other meat in any significant quantity. Any individual element of any diet is dangerous if over fed which is exactly why there must be sufficient variety in the diet in the first place to prevent that.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

to get back to the original question, when I feed raw food I just mix it with the dry food. It is silly to suggest that the rate of digestion is important. Do we check up how quickly we will digest all our food and feed it in stages through the day!
Some dogs do have special dietary needs but the vast majority of dogs will eat whatever is put in front of them with no problems. Dogs were far healthier in the days when they survived on table scraps or bread and milk and no one fussed over them. (I am not saying I would do that or that I dont pay attention to what my dogs eat)

One of our local butchers does an offal mince for dogs, I am not sure what is in it as it just comes in little freezer bags with no labelling but I do feel that offal is not the highest quality of food for a dog and wouldnt want to feed it too often.


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