# Is this cage big enough for a rat?



## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

Just curious as I have been having some mousy issues and if my mum would let me sell all my mice for another rabbit them hopefully I could persuade her for a rat. Trust me I have seen cages half this size for rats. I bet you will say its not tho. Also if so how many rats and if not how much bigger does it need to be? Also the best combo like a boy or 2 girls or whatever!









Been considering for a while but with so many mice dying :/
I will resource care any recommended websites I can TRUST


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

I'd say not in the slightest. I don't know the dimensions but it looks far too low and tiny. Just because you see some rats in tiny cages, doesn't mean its right!

To be honest with the attitude you have I don't think you should really have any more pets.

Rats require a lot of care, they can suffer from a lot of health problems and you have said previously your not willing to take your animals to the vet.

The fact your asking if its big enough for a rat means you have done almost no research whatsoever. If you had you would know that rats are social and do well in same sex pairs or groups.

Getting rid of some animals in swap for an other is abhorrent IMO and your parents should not be allowing this at all.

This makes me really sad.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Rats NEED to be kept in pairs! Boy boy. NOT BOY GIRL!

I really think you are a spoilt little brat. You want to sell your mice as your having issues!!!

Have you actually done any research into rats?
You do realise that rats suffer many health issues such as strokes, respiratory infections, tumours, hind leg degeneration (can't use back legs) plus many other health issues.

And please if you were thinking of breeding rats then DON'T.
In order to breed healthy rats you'd need to buy two healthy rats from a very good breeder. Someone who has tried breeding out respiratory infections, tumours etc. they have many family lines before they even attempt to breed rats to see if there line carries anything bad.

That cage looks ok but rats like talk wide cages. 
They can't be kept on pine shavings or sawdust as it will cause breathing issues.
And the bars can't be too wide or they'll get out.
They need time out of the cage for at least an hour a day to run around. Not in a ball either.

They need good rat mixes and not pet shop bought ones.
They need fresh vegetables and cooked foods.

Really though just stick to a dog or cat.

We've all seen tour attitude to your mice and your unsuitable cages and your reluctance to take your mice to the vets! 
And I'll tell you this much rats cost quite a bit vets bills.

Please don't get rats unless you can house them in a big cage in same sex pairs or trio. Feed a good rat diet, take them to the vets when they aren't well and can play with them out of there cage for an hour a day.
Rats need a cage size of 80cm x 50cm x 80cm that's for 4 rats.


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

Just curious. I am not getting rats. Just seeing if it was worth keeping it. For when I was older. Gosh I'm not surprised I had never heard of this forum in till searching up for a pet forum. So many negative people. The world is full of many negative people and they have mostly all landed hear except one I have came in touch of!! Go zany_toon


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

No, that cage is nowhere near big enough. I wouldn't bother getting rats until you've grown up a lot & done a ton of research, sorry.

Why are your mice dying?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Just curious. I am not getting rats. Just seeing if it was worth keeping it. For when I was older. Gosh I'm not surprised I had never heard of this forum in till searching up for a pet forum. *So many negative people. The world is full of many negative people and they have mostly all landed hear except one I have came in touch of*!! Go zany_toon


No, not negative people, _realistic_ people.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Just looked at the cage again as I was a little distracted by my rats being out running round the lounge. 
No it's not big enough!!!


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Just curious as I have been having some mousy issues and if my mum would let me sell all my mice for another rabbit them hopefully I could persuade her for a rat. Trust me I have seen cages half this size for rats. I bet you will say its not tho. Also if so how many rats and if not how much bigger does it need to be? Also the best combo like a boy or 2 girls or whatever!
> 
> View attachment 118375
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Firstly, no it's not big enough. 
Secondly, rats NEED to be together, as in 2 boys, OR two girls.

However, I find your comment on the fact that you are having 'mousey issues' and that they are dying therefore you want to sell them (I can only assume so you don't have to deal with them anymore) rather childish and very selfish. i recently lost one of my beautiful buck rats to a Zymbal Gland Tumour, one of the MANY health issues rats are prone to. As hard as it was watching him suffer, and then having to make the decision and watch as he was put to sleep, I don't regret it at all as he was surrounded by people he knew and loved in his final days. I can't even begin to consider selling him on in his most time of need.



Miceandmore64 said:


> Just curious. I am not getting rats. Just seeing if it was worth keeping it. For when I was older. Gosh I'm not surprised I had never heard of this forum in till searching up for a pet forum. So many negative people. The world is full of many negative people and they have mostly all landed hear except one I have came in touch of!! Go zany_toon


I really highly suggest you do not get rats, not now, not in the future. They are very people orientated, need a lot of space in a cage, need to have proper free range time AT LEAST for an hour a day, plus interactions. They shouldn't have the rubbish food that the pets shops sell, therefore you would be suggested to buy a mix from somewhere like RatRations (not cheap!), vet bills are definitely not cheap either. I get ours out in the morning whilst their breakfast is being made up, and then again in the evening for at least for a good hour if not more. Most days they also come out again during the day if they are up and about too.

I would also like to point out that YOU chose to come on here and ask for opinions, just because they aren't what you want to hear doesn't mean we are being negative, it means we are being _truthful_. Nobody is here to put others down, however as PET LOVERS we aren't just going to suggest doing something that will come at the expense of the animal in question!

You have a heck of a lot of growing up to do, and if you can't face realism if it's not what you want to hear then you aren't going to get very far in life at all.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Just curious as I have been having some mousy issues and if my mum would let me sell all my mice for another rabbit them hopefully I could persuade her for a rat. Trust me I have seen cages half this size for rats. I bet you will say its not tho. Also if so how many rats and if not how much bigger does it need to be? Also the best combo like a boy or 2 girls or whatever!
> 
> View attachment 118375
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> ...


I wouldnt house mice in there let alone a rat, they need a ferret kingdom size (imo) with lots of flat mates....... A rat alone is miserable, even with lots of cuddles they need to have a friend at least one, they are social animals.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

maybe so many of your mice wouldnt die if you actually sought medical help and took them to the vet when needed?

if you cant cope with mice getting ill and you wont take them to the vet, then rats certainly are not for you, they are very prone to respitory infections which if not treated can lead to lung scaring and can be fatal, many end up being on baytril for most of their lives. they are also prone to tumours which often end up needing to be surgically removed 

also the idea of selling one animal to get another is just beyond words, animals should be part of your family you should love them, if you dont love them you dont deserve them, and if you can happily think about sacking the animals you have in now just to get another animal then you do not deserve to own any animal, however, if you are going to go ahead and get rid of your mice to get another animal, then you should get another rabbit, it isnt fair on your current bun to keep her on her own, they are social animals and require other bunny company, i just hope you are responsible enough to have her and what ever companion you get for her neutered........


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

Rats are very expensive to keep, and they get ill a lot.

Keep up with your research and maybe think about getting rats when you are older.

People here aren't horrible and negative, we care a lot about animals and want the best for them and some of the things you post are bordering on animal cruelty tbh.


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

I AM NOT GETTING RATS UN TILL I HAVE MY OWN HOUSE. I HAD 5 MICE DYE IN 2 days but you can't tell me it was my fault. I think one got a disease and died then the others ate it and got that disease as well. But they were not in bad cages or anything. I will stay on this site to talk to zany_toon the on&#322;y sane person around here even the mice ones turned evil !!!!!!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I AM NOT GETTING RATS UN TILL I HAVE MY OWN HOUSE. *I HAD 5 MICE DYE IN 2 days* but you can't tell me it was my fault. I think one got a disease and died then the others ate it and got that disease as well. But they were not in bad cages or anything. I will stay on this site to talk to zany_toon the onły sane person around here even the mice ones turned evil !!!!!!


Then you really need to speak to a vet, that is not normal & the surviving mice may need treatment.

It is your duty as caregiver, & your parents' as well until you are 16, to provide the mice with veterinary treatment if they are ill.

It is a _legal_ requirement & denying them treatment could lead to you or your parents being prosecuted.

If you have done what you said you were going to do on the other thread you posted & hand reared baby mice just for the sake of it that might be the reason some have died.

In you opening post you said:


> Just curious as I have been having some mousy issues and if my mum would let me sell all my mice for another rabbit them hopefully I could persuade her for a rat.


Why would you need to persuade your mum about rats if you aren't getting them until you move out 

Sorry, I just find it all very confusing & contradictory, & being 12 doesn't excuse animal cruelty.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I AM NOT GETTING RATS UN TILL I HAVE MY OWN HOUSE. I HAD 5 MICE DYE IN 2 days but you can't tell me it was my fault. I think one got a disease and died then the others ate it and got that disease as well. But they were not in bad cages or anything. I will stay on this site to talk to zany_toon the onły sane person around here even the mice ones turned evil !!!!!!


If you've had five mice die in two days then it does sound like something is going on, and not just that the others ate the body of the one that died - an infection wouldn't work so quickly that the mice would fall ill overnight and die the next day. Even the worst respiratory infections don't work that quickly - I've had almost 100 mice by now, at present I've got 25. The most I've lost to natural causes in one day was two (one who died in his sleep from old age and another who died in his sleep from old age and a tumour) and outwith of natural causes I lost three in one day (all pts by the vet after we found out what was wrong with them and another time three died because the vet overdosed them which was terrible to see as I rushed them up to the vet as they were taking fits  ) I would strongly suggest that you take your mice to the vet, including the ones that passed away to have an autopsy and tests done so that your other mice are given the best change possible of fighting it. If any of them at all fall ill you need to get them to a vet or get baytril (I'm not sure if it's available over the counter in farm stores in Oz in the way it is in the US, if it us you will need to find some one who can DILUTE IT as you can't buy rodent strength baytril otc, and if it is too strong it will kill all the mice.) THey really need a vet if they are dying so quickly. And selling them on isn't going to solve the problem, if anything it will make it worse - the infection can worsen when they are upset so selling them on could actually kill them, and it then means the person who wants them is left lost without knowing what is going on and losing their new pet (I've been on the receiving end of this more than once and taken in mice that people have gotten fed up of, they didn't know what they were doing and some of the mice were so ill that they died in less than 12 hours from the upset of moving even though I put them on medicine  Believe me, it isn't fair on the mice or on the new pet owner.)

If you do feel that mice aren't for you because of their short lives and the fact that they are prone to so many ailments, then look after them until they are gone, please don't just rehome them or sell them  Rats are just as prone to medical problems as mice, from what I know of them, and they can actually get some problems a lot worse than mice like sendai (I'm sure some one will correct me on that if I remembered the name of the disease incorrectly.) They also need company - and unlike male mice it's a requirement that males have company too. Rabbits also need company, so if you are talking your mum into getting you a rabbit, you can't have just one, no matter who tells you otherwise. I would strongly encourage you to do a lot of research on them before getting them, them require a lot more work than a mouse as they also need vaccinations - before getting mice I spent almost 3 years researching them and I still wasn't prepared. If you want to show your parents how responsible you are, take the time and go and meet knowledgeable people who know what they are talking about and read as much as possible from good quality books, websites and forums for at least a year before you even think about another pet. You are only 12, look after your pets, get them to a vet and take the time to research your next pet so that you know what you are doing in detail so that you reduce the chances of them falling ill.


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## Acid (Aug 8, 2011)

i dont mean this to be rude or condescending or rejoice that your animals falling sick and dying will prove everyones points but arent you glad now that you didnt breed your mice so that you could hand rear them? 

if you want to swap them for another animal because they are dying imagine trying to swap pregnant females and nursing females with potentially huge numbers of babies that themselves could breed because you may not sex them correctly.

i dont agree with you wanting to swap them, as mentioned an animal becomes a part of your family once you buy/ rescue it, not a toy to be swapped or thrown out once youre bored of it. animals need stability and the comfort of a home for life not being shoved from pillar to post going god knows where, how would you feel if your parents got sick of having a girl so they wanted to swap you with the neighbours boy?  

swapping or selling those mice may result in them being used as live bait by reptile feeders (not saying all reptile keepers do this but it is known that some browse free or cheap adds for snake food, they will often take hamsters too). in any case you can guarantee in a straight swap for another animal the new owner theyre going to wont be much better than you as they too are getting rid of a poor animal for another species out of boredom or laziness

edit: i just read through and found that you did breed, once intentionally and once with a wild mouse and got 9ish babies and you wouldnt take them to the vets then tried to sell some babies and you trawl a site called trademe and won more mice on there you collected.. i think that says it all really :/


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

> if my mum would let me sell all my mice for another rabbit them hopefully I could persuade her for a rat


This definitely sounds like you just want to sell your mice so you can move on. I rescued my hedgehog from people like that- they were getting rid of her because they fancied a chameleon.
It's not fair on the mice or the other people to just pass on your pets because you've had enough. When you get an animal you undertake an oath to stand by that animal and meet its needs, whether that be food, playtime or veterinary care. Letting your mice die without seeking the advice of a vet is bad enough but then to palm them off on someone else because you can't be bothered with it is down right disgusting.
If I were your mother I definitely would not be letting you get ANY animals, ever.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Am angry...I am actually shaking. If you want toys go to a toy store...stay away from actual lives!


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## Sara1991 (Jul 20, 2013)

That cage is nothing like big enough... And if your attitude towards animals is 'oh I'm board of this one I'm going to swap it for another' I suggest you grow up before taking on any more animals because that's such a messed up, heartless way to think about these living breathing beings that you have taken on responsibility for. Pets ARE NOT disposable! You can't just get rid of them to make room for more like you would your old toys the week before Christmas.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Maltey said:


> If I were your mother I definitely would not be letting you get ANY animals, ever.


If I was I'd never let her own pets again either. But whats this say about her mother if shes letting a child raise pets this way, wtf is that. : / Both mum and child need a good slapping imo.


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## ceretrea (Jan 24, 2011)

I can't see the dimensions of this cage but it seems too small to me. Young bucks need as much height and space as females do, and although they can find rabbit cages easier to live in when elderly, it doesn't appear that this is your aim. Bucks should be kept in same sex pairs or trios at least.

Rats suffer with a large range of medical issues and not to sound callous, but they won't conveniently die when they get sick. They'll need treatment, and believe me that will cost you. Twenty rats cant cost between £1000 and £1500 a year in vets bills depending on how unlucky you are in one year. They may develop behavioural issues and need neutering at £60 a go, or develop lumps that need removing at £120 a go. Routine visits can be around £30-£40 with meds adding anywhere from £10 to £40 on top. One of the big reasons for hand ins to rescue this year so far is lack of funds for vet treatment.

Its def something to research for when you have lots of time and money. Rats *need* to be handled and freeranged as much as possible to remain friendly and stimulated.

I'm sorry you have lost so many mice, and I've heard the thing about eating diseased bodies before. Let me enlighten those reading this thread. If more than one animal dies in a cage (cagemates) they aren't infected from munching on their dead friend. I find it used as an excuse from some breeders instead of admitting genetic health faults, or from those unwilling to consider something that could likely infect all of their animals. 

If you have a lot die at once, you should do the following:-

a) consult your vet as to what could have caused it
b) try to find out what it is
c) lock down. Don't take in or send out any animals for a period of time that your vet thinks is appropriate. This could be 2 weeks, 4 or even 6 depending on what was wrong.

Don't post on forums that everyone is mean for pointing out realistic truths to you. This could be classed as trolling, which I'm seriously considering it could be.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

OP needs to camp out in the toilet for a year then she will know how the poor rodents feel in those disgusting cages, they should be illegal.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I AM NOT GETTING RATS UN TILL I HAVE MY OWN HOUSE. I HAD 5 MICE DYE IN 2 days but you can't tell me it was my fault. I think one got a disease and died then the others ate it and got that disease as well. But they were not in bad cages or anything. I will stay on this site to talk to zany_toon the onły sane person around here even the mice ones turned evil !!!!!!


If you have lost so many mice in so few days then why on earth are you not going to the vets? What if it's something that affects all your mice & they all die?


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

ceretrea said:


> I can't see the dimensions of this cage but it seems too small to me. Young bucks need as much height and space as females do, and although they can find rabbit cages easier to live in when elderly, it doesn't appear that this is your aim. Bucks should be kept in same sex pairs or trios at least.
> 
> Rats suffer with a large range of medical issues and not to sound callous, but they won't conveniently die when they get sick. They'll need treatment, and believe me that will cost you. Twenty rats cant cost between £1000 and £1500 a year in vets bills depending on how unlucky you are in one year. They may develop behavioural issues and need neutering at £60 a go, or develop lumps that need removing at £120 a go. Routine visits can be around £30-£40 with meds adding anywhere from £10 to £40 on top. One of the big reasons for hand ins to rescue this year so far is lack of funds for vet treatment.
> 
> ...


Quoting this again to ensure it is read!


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