# What do you think of these GSDs??



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I am starting the long process of finding my GSD puppy in time for about a year -summer holls is as good a time as any for a new puppy, and Anna will be one by then.

So I have stubled across this site, while starting to look close to where I am so I could go and visit and get to know them and the dogs etc

Skipmyre German Shepherd Breeders Scotland UK

What do you think?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

They are GORGEOUS!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Very stunning :thumbup:


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

Not my cup of tea, although they are nice looking dogs!


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Do you think its worth emailing her?
Just saying I am looking to have a gsd in a year and dont want to rush it so looking now.
Should I give a bit of info about myself so she can tell me if I might go on a list or something?


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

One thing i didn't like was that they didn't state their purpose in breeding their dogs!

Although it is great that they are hip scored and elbow scored!


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Oh I didn't think of that!
I found another site and had to close it off right away there was loads of pics of sloped backed gsds on it!  
I want a ''normal'' looking one!

Ohh I am having a dilema I just fell upon a pic of an EBT puppy! The other breed I would love to have!!


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> *I want a ''normal'' looking one![/*QUOTE]
> 
> ?


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Normal, being one that can stand up and not look stupid. I cant stand seeing those with horribl sloped backs


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Those dogs look gorgeous to me and they have the relevant health tests. Have you been given permission by your oh to get another pooch? If so let me know how you did it cos mine is still digging his heels in about it.


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

They look fab and have all the relevant testing. The breeder says she is keeping a pup from each litter due this year to continue her lines so i would guess that is her reason for breeding them. I would definately buy from her but would go and visit and get to know them first. X X :thumbup:


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## jardine (Feb 14, 2010)

i would always want to see the parents standing so you can see if they are sloping back, i know when we got bella we were told to avoid the slopping back shepherd as they tend to get the hip problems.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Do you know what I love most about the site you linked to Poisongirl? The fact that their whites seem to be just as special as their standard colours 

9 years ago we got our Honey (white), and we got her for many reasons, one being that the breeder didn't have the heart to follow the advice of other reputable breeders ... knocking the white ones on the head at birth. 

Are white ones accepted by the KC now?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Do you know what I love most about the site you linked to Poisongirl? The fact that their whites seem to be just as special as their standard colours
> 
> 9 years ago we got our Honey (white), and we got her for many reasons, one being that the breeder didn't have the heart to follow the advice of other reputable breeders ... knocking the white ones on the head at birth.
> 
> Are white ones accepted by the KC now?


White gsds have always been able to be kc registered but white is a major fault when it comes to showing and is classed as highly undesireable, quite right too manky things they are.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> White gsds have always been able to be kc registered but white is a major fault when it comes to showing and is classed as highly undesireable, quite right too manky things they are.


Yeah that's what I meant. It's a shame they are still considered undesirable  They are awesomely cute, just like the others.

And yeah, manky things  They totally ruin your heart!


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## Sam1309 (May 18, 2010)

i'd love a white GSD there is one locally and its white not sandy! ohhh he is a beauty!

had looked at adoping one but we were too late, someone else got him, seen his update recently and he's gone to a very good home, which i'm glad of


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Those dogs look gorgeous to me and they have the relevant health tests. Have you been given permission by your oh to get another pooch? If so let me know how you did it cos mine is still digging his heels in about it.


:lol: permission made me giggle.

But yes- I think it was the night Anna was born. We wanted to try for another baby in a year or so but that night he said ''we are not having any more after this, can't chance going through it all again, you can get a puppy instead'' hahahahahaha

He has never agreed to something so quickly. Although when we had Dave he said I could still get my gsd when he was older, until Anna was born he was kinda saying no. But I had pre-eclampsia with my son and again with Anna but much earlier on, theres no question I am not a gambler especially with my life ad and a babys.


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

Sounds like a good breeder. I like their site. I'm guessing that they are just starting out, not sure, as most of their foundation bitches/sires are from other kennels.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

What a relief to see such well made level-backed dogs. If I wanted a GSD, I'd be having a serious look at these breeders. I know a couple of Gefni GSDs too, worth checking them out if you want a long haired one. They have good backs too.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

they look generally very-good and the temps look GREAT, behavior-wise - 
very apropos play, deferring to allow pups a handicap, nobody over-controlling or OTT possessive; the fact that the dogs are clean + comfy in the house means a lot, to me.

i did not see any mention of eye-certificates? 
maybe i looked in the wrong place?

i would definitely ask about coming for a visit, if at all possible within 3-mos or so; meeting the dogs is key-info, altho even the bark-fest they had when one adult B+T longhair M had a POV that made him raise the alarm, was low-key.

reactivity, sound-sensitivity + barking-chains are all potential *big* flaws in GSDs; U don;t want them oblivious, but i for one do Not Want a dog who barks when a leaf falls :yikes: and i have met many GSDs who do.

i might offer just ONE criticism... 
in the slide-shows on the home page at the TOP, there are several shots of dogs who show short, very angled hock to paw structure in the rear, the *worst* and most-obvious being (what looks like) a teenaged-black M with a med-to-long coat. 
i would want to avoid his dam or sire, and it is entirely possible that they used an outside-sire on their own F, or an outside-F (less likely, but perhaps for a litter-pick) with *their* own stud.

either way, i don;t like the short-hocked / long thigh assembly, with both rear-feet further-forward under the body when the dog stands self-posed.

but that was literally the only thing i saw to give me pause - 
they look beautiful, they appear to have lovely temps... whats not to like :lol:

cheers, hun - 
--- terry


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## pika (Apr 6, 2010)

They are adorable! I think you should try mailing as many reputable breeders as you can and getting onto some lists, going to visit them and see what you think, since your hoping for one next year it gives you lots of time to go and just view a few first :thumbup:


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2010)

I have always wanted a white GSD. Beautiful.


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

jardine said:


> i would always want to see the parents standing so you can see if they are sloping back, i know when we got bella we were told to avoid the slopping back shepherd as they tend to get the hip problems.


You were told the wrong advice! 


A sloping back has nothing to do with their hips. Many english lines have severe problems with their hips, whats their excuse? :confused1:


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

I thought that the "sloping back" was the position for the dog to be in when being shown and the fact breeders bred for it naturally is the main cause for the HD prob in GSDs.

I could be really wrong in that though.

Any reason for a puppy when there are loads in need of a good home?
There are some in Scotland, North East or North west if you wanted to give a loving home to one of these beauties.

urgent dogs for adoption

A friend of a friend runs this line of GSDs. Personally I think they are stunning.

Welcome to Gentlebears German Shepherds

*WARNING: *Do not look on the Progeny page if you are feeling slightly broody.


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

This might be an intresting read!
Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, THE BACK


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

WHat lines are you after, do you want working line or show line, german, English, czech lines etc.
Just checking sweet
xx


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Beautiful normal looking gsds with good hip scores although I would ask about eye and haemophilia tests.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

Also ask if there is Epilepsy and dwarfism in the lines too hun
xx


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

sketch said:


> Also ask if there is Epilepsy and dwarfism in the lines too hun
> xx


A lot of breeders won't admit to that, so it is best to check the pedigree yourself! (the person wanting a pup)


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> I thought that the "sloping back" was the position for the dog to be in when being shown and the fact breeders bred for it naturally is the main cause for the HD prob in GSDs.
> 
> I could be really wrong in that though.
> 
> ...


OMFG  I can't believe you made me do that 

They could seriously temp me into a divorce :lol:


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

GSDlover4ever said:


> A lot of breeders won't admit to that, so it is best to check the pedigree yourself! (the person wanting a pup)


Yeh I know Robyn, but atleast the OP will be aware of it for future references etc, if you get me
xx


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Just out of interest and sorry if going off topic just slightly but what do you think of these dogs ie show lines....

Our Dogs Newspaper - News, breeders, showdogs, dog breeds, pedigree show dogs, canine clubs, web design, website uk

http://bilnettsgsd.tripod.com/index.html

edit... sorry forgot to add last link


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> A friend of a friend runs this line of GSDs. Personally I think they are stunning.
> 
> Welcome to Gentlebears German Shepherds
> 
> *WARNING: *Do not look on the Progeny page if you are feeling slightly broody.


Too many colours for my liking.... blues.....


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

deb53 said:


> Just out of interest and sorry if going off topic just slightly but what do you think of these dogs ie show lines....
> 
> Our Dogs Newspaper - News, breeders, showdogs, dog breeds, pedigree show dogs, canine clubs, web design, website uk


I don't like them.....


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

GSDlover4ever said:


> I don't like them.....


And the other link??

May i ask what you don't like about them?


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

deb53 said:


> Just out of interest and sorry if going off topic just slightly but what do you think of these dogs ie show lines....
> 
> Our Dogs Newspaper - News, breeders, showdogs, dog breeds, pedigree show dogs, canine clubs, web design, website uk
> 
> ...


Personally i think the winner of open bitch looks lovely but i prefer the straighter backed types. The others aren't really my type but 'm sure they are lovely dogs  x

ps - Ace is gorgeous!


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I am in love with this dog.... I'd love a GSD like this. One day maybe!

GentleBears - Diesel


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

hutch6 said:


> I thought that the "sloping back" was the position for the dog to be in when being shown and the fact breeders bred for it naturally is the main cause for the HD prob in GSDs.
> 
> I could be really wrong in that though.
> 
> ...


Disagree with how she seems to rehome retired bitches and i'm unsure about all the different colours, but they look like gorgeous dogs x

Oh and how she seems to be breeding to get little mini Diesels!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The gentlebear dogs seem to have really uneven hips Diesels are 4:16, one of the females Morgan is 4:11. That would put me off them
However Midas is gorgeous and good hip score
http://www.gentlebearsgsd.co.uk/Midas.htm


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

deb53 said:


> And the other link??
> 
> May i ask what you don't like about them?


I like Ace 

I just think they look to solid, chunky and big boned....

I think GSD's should look athletic looking, probably why i prefer the working line GSD


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> The gentlebear dogs seem to have really uneven hips Diesels are 4:16, one of the females Morgan is 4:11. That would put me off them
> However Midas is gorgeous and good hip score
> GentleBears-Midas


Agree there:thumbup:



GSDlover4ever said:


> I like Ace
> 
> I just think they look to solid, chunky and big boned....
> 
> I think GSD's should look athletic looking, probably why i prefer the working line GSD


Its all about how each individuals perception of how a shepherd should look like isn't it.

Poisongirl has been shown whites, blues, heavies, long coats, working, show standard (english). I wonder what type poison girl likes....?

The only pics not up are Germanic roached backs.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

They do look lovely
Bit apprehensive that she only wants mini diesals and the hip scores?
Also on her memories page she pays tribute to her passed on animals but a few of them seemed young pups, I would hesitate and be wondering what had happened here and why? :confused1: Maybe thats just me.

I love long coated GSD's with straight backs and quite large muscular dogs.


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> They do look lovely
> Bit apprehensive that she only wants mini diesals and the hip scores?
> Also on her memories page she pays tribute to her passed on animals but a few of them seemed young pups, I would hesitate and be wondering what had happened here and why? :confused1: Maybe thats just me.
> 
> I love long coated GSD's with straight backs and quite large muscular dogs.


This sort of had me questioning as well. Also, did anyone else notice they are planning to breed two bitches at the same time? That is a MASSIVE worry for me.

GSD's have an AVERAGE litter size of 8-9 puppies. If that breeder ends up with 18 puppies, she will NOT have the time to appropriately socialize and rear them on her own. There are breeders out there who actually buy in puppy nannies in order to have 24/7 cover for the first 4-6 weeks of the puppie's lives.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

My faves are the chunkier medium coated ones  black and tan, I do love the whites but I already have one white dog what a nightmare LOL 

Since I was 6 I have wanted my own GSD. We went to a family friend and I met Sabre, a huuuge blackand tan, medium coat he was like a big teddy bear 

I have had my fair share of fosters and helping rescues, it is a puppy I want and I couldnt ever have a gsd not knowing where she came from. Nor could I chance an older rescue with small children, I want to have her from the young impressionable age. 


There are certainly a fair few breeders out there anyway! Give me a bit to digest I will look closer through the links given and replies about them once my hyper 5yo is safely tucked in bed and I do not have to have one ear open for him breaking things or falling off things or winding up the dogs! Lol


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Bit Too far for you Poisongirl but i liked the look of these guys

Vonthurlow German Shepherds

Check out Apache


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Bit Too far for you Poisongirl but i liked the look of these guys
> 
> Vonthurlow German Shepherds
> 
> *Check out Apache*


wow he is gorgeous


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

OMG I am in love with Oscar! I want him!
That is how I want my GSD to look :001_wub:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> OMG I am in love with Oscar! I want him!
> That is how I want my GSD to look :001_wub:


Gorgeous boy, looks like good hip scores in their dogs to me too but i know diddly squat


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I have had a reply from the woman of the website I put in my first post. Iemailed her commenting on how lovely her dogs looked, and a bit about myself (didnt want to just write 'I am looking for a puppy' kinda thing!) told her about the gsd girl I 'rescued' 3ish years ago and a bit about my family etc.



> Hi Emma,
> 
> Thank you for your kind comments about my dog's.
> 
> ...


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## GentlebearsLesley (Jan 23, 2011)

A friend of mine pointed me towards these posts re my dogs and breeding. 
I wanted to post reply to answer your questions/concerns.

1. My aim to breed mini diesel's is in respect to his temperament not his colour etc etc. He is the most wonderful boy i have ever met and would be proud if all the pups come out with similar temperaments.

2. My retired dogs go to friends/people i know very well. Not just sold off to any old person and they go spayed, with a contract the same as my pups that if they need to rehome they come back to me and not just passed from pillar to post. I have them back for holidays etc when needed and we keep in close contact with them.

3. The young dogs on my loving memory page.. only one on there was bred by me and I have explained what happened to them all. 

4. Yes, i have some uneven scores in my lines, but i don't hide them and they are under the breed average (except diesel, but he is retired now and he sired midas who you have seen has a wonderful score and diesel himself has never sired an uneven score and the highest he has sired is 14!)

5. The girls bred at the same time was not planned in advance and odd seasons are to blame. i work from home and the pups are in the house with me as are the rest of my dogs so i can assure you they all got my attention and socialisation.

I am very proud of my dogs, they are my world. Some people will like them some people won't. everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i ADORE my dogs and always will.

Warmest regards, Lesley Cooper, Gentlebears german shepherds.


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## just juicy woods (Aug 21, 2013)

I have a Von Thurlow bitch who is fantastic. In fact we have put our names down for another puppy. Parents are von Thurlow Connor mother and father is von Thurlow Teddy. These kennels breed straight backed animals who are no wallflower


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Skipmyre GSD's look like my perfect breeders - shame they're the complete opposite of the UK to me!


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I know this is an old thread, but I saw the dog "Oscar" that the OP liked the look of. He reminded me of the type of GSD that Kazeti breed.

Leicestershire. Midlands.Kazeti


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

Apart from the link Kirsty has put up I wouldnt touch any of the others


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Wildmoor said:


> Apart from the link Kirsty has put up I wouldnt touch any of the others


Which one is the good one?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

PoisonGirl said:


> Normal, being one that can stand up and not look stupid. I cant stand seeing those with horribl sloped backs


Totally agree with you there, can't stand the 'hock knockers' either. They look lovely to me and maybe they breed for a pet market as well as show. Nice knowing they're health tested and raised with people, also that they keep all of their dogs. Seem a nice kennel and the dogs look super. 

I've always wanted a GSD, had one as a child but am so worried about DM more than anything else as I've known two who've had it and its heartbreaking to see.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Totally agree with you there, can't stand the 'hock knockers' either. They look lovely to me and maybe they breed for a pet market as well as show. Nice knowing they're health tested and raised with people, also that they keep all of their dogs. Seem a nice kennel and the dogs look super.
> 
> I've always wanted a GSD, had one as a child but am so worried about DM more than anything else as I've known two who've had it and its heartbreaking to see.


Is there a test for DM?
I've heard about GSD's with it - not nice.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

dandogman said:


> Is there a test for DM?
> I've heard about GSD's with it - not nice.


There is. I have noticed it is being used in the RR world.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Dogless said:


> There is. I have noticed it is being used in the RR world.


Ah right. Shame only a minority do the test.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Bit Too far for you Poisongirl but i liked the look of these guys
> 
> Vonthurlow German Shepherds
> 
> Check out Apache


I know this is an old thread but Apache is amazing! I do love white gsd. I wonder also if they received less of a bad reaction out in the world as the average person may not recognise them as a gsd.

Edit to add: Ohh and teddy http://vonthurlowgermanshepherds.moonfruit.com/#/teddy/4576960755 I've never seen a gsd that colour before, I'm guessing it's not a recognised colour?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> Teddy Apache Pups Available - Vonthurlow German Shepherds
> 
> I've never seen a GSD [in his] colour before, I'm guessing it's not a recognised colour?


He's liver AKA 'chocolate', with a self-colored nose & eye-rims, etc, & hazel eyes.
A fellow USA-apdt trainer has a liver GSD who's the light of her life, & he has green eyes.

Like white / cream / biscuit, liver is a recessive, & in the show ring, an automatic disqualification.

Personally, i've seen some gorgeous white-GSDs in my lifetime; the first was our wealthy neighbor's heart-dog, 
Mrs Frank's "Snowball", who was not only a beautiful dog to look at, but had a lovely temp, as well.
He was all of 14 when he died, & still fairly hale, as she hadn't let him become fat as he aged.
He died in the early-70s; when he was born, most white-GSDs were simply killed & no one admitted 
to them being born, as the DAMS were held to be somehow "tainted" & might be killed, themselves,
or never bred again.

The obvious answer was that BOTH dam & sire were involved, as it's a recessive, & simply by avoiding 
a repeat breeding, they'd reduce the odds of throwing a white pup; i'm dam*ed if i can explain why 
the female was exclusively blamed for white pups in a litter.

BTW, white GSDs *do not* have the genetic deafness that can arise in white Boxers, other bully-breeds, 
white Collies & their relatives [double-dilute, merle: merle, lethal whites], or white Dobes -

i've also seen beautiful Dobermans who happened to be white or cream, who'd been extensively health-screened 
& passed every test with all flags flying, including the American Temp-Testing Society temperament test.

I don't discriminate among dogs based on their color, so long as they are otherwise healthy & well-made;
*with one exception: blue.* Blue dog syndrome is a very real problem, 
& any blue dog i see had better have excellent skin, claws, hair coat, eyes, normal ears, etc, or i don't want to 
see that dog bred - ever. S/he should be desexed as soon as the problems are visible, or health issues become 
a recurring problem.

Double-dilute dogs are the one category i can't abide; i realize it's not the dog's fault that s/he was born, 
& it's pure bloody luck that this dog survived the gauntlet, but i'd never want to own one, even if that dog was 
so incredibly lucky as to have near-normal eyesight & hearing. Their very existence would remind me that 
this dog's littermates & many, many others had died, been stillborn, were resorbed before the dam whelped, 
or lived with various congenital or developmental problems all their short lives, including deaf & / or blind.

I simply can't forgive someone who mates two merle dogs - there is IMO no justification on earth for that crime.
.
.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> He's liver AKA 'chocolate', with a self-colored nose & eye-rims, etc, & hazel eyes.
> A fellow USA-apdt trainer has a liver GSD who's the light of her life, & he has green eyes.
> 
> Like white / cream / biscuit, liver is a recessive, & in the show ring, an automatic disqualification.
> ...


That's sad about the white GSD's.

My nan's neighbor has a blue and tan GSD long coated male. He was a lovely puppy, but the colour isn't much different from black and tan now he's older. I'm not sure about his coat, claw, eye condition... but boy he can bark!


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

Moobli said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I saw the dog "Oscar" that the OP liked the look of. He reminded me of the type of GSD that Kazeti breed.
> 
> Leicestershire. Midlands.Kazeti





Wildmoor said:


> Apart from the link Kirsty has put up I wouldnt touch any of the others


The one above


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Ah right. Shame only a minority do the test.


The problem is dogs have tested clear, not carriers and have still come down with DM, there is believed to be 2 types one immune mediated one not a bit like MS & ASL in humans. The University of Missouri is the only one the UK KC recommend in GSDs, this is done via OFA unless your dog is showing clinical signs then you can submit direct Degenerative Myelopathy - Sample Submission


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

Alice Childress said:


> I know this is an old thread but Apache is amazing! I do love white gsd. I wonder also if they received less of a bad reaction out in the world as the average person may not recognise them as a gsd.
> 
> Edit to add: Ohh and teddy Apache Pups Available - Vonthurlow German Shepherds I've never seen a gsd that colour before, I'm guessing it's not a recognised colour?


No it isnt a recognised colour although the UK KC will still register it, these type of breeders breed for colour only regardless of health conditions in the lines

RE Blues (dilute of black) again this is linked to CDA


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Wildmoor said:


> The one above


Ah - thanks, I think they look better actually 



Wildmoor said:


> The problem is dogs have tested clear, not carriers and have still come down with DM, there is believed to be 2 types one immune mediated one not a bit like MS & ASL in humans. The University of Missouri is the only one the UK KC recommend in GSDs, this is done via OFA unless your dog is showing clinical signs then you can submit direct Degenerative Myelopathy - Sample Submission


Ah I see, I understand why people don't use it at the moment.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Wildmoor said:


> No it isnt a recognised colour although the UK KC will still register it,* these type of breeders breed for colour only regardless of health conditions in the lines*
> 
> RE Blues (dilute of black) again this is linked to CDA


I did wonder if that would be the result. I don't like how many litters the breeder appears to be having, nor how many dogs they are keeping.

I suppose if you wanted an ethically breed white gsd you'd have to wait until an ethical breeder happen to have one appear in their litter, rather than purposely planned for some. Shame as I think they are gorgeous (but then, I think all gsd's are gorgeous).


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

dandogman said:


> My nan's neighbor has a blue & tan GSD long coated male.
> He was a lovely puppy, but the colour isn't much different from B&T, now he's older.
> I'm not sure about his *coat, claw, eye condition*... but boy, he can bark!


Blue Dog Syndrome isn't found in blue & tan dogs -
it's seen in self-colored dogs, IOW they're entirely blue, including nose leather & eye rims, 
with possibly some white - tail-tip, a locket, or sox.

White dogs with blue patches don't have Blue-Dog Syndrome, either. It's an auto-immune problem that makes 
them very susceptible to all sorts of chronic & acute health problems, which tend to flare & subside all their lives.
Very miserable for the dogs, & very expensive for the owners.

Blue pitbulls or blue dogs of any other bully-breed, blue Chows, *fawn Dobes*... any dilute color of 
any breed can develop *Color Dilution Alopecia*, but the full-blown auto-immune problems primarily 
appear in dogs who are allover blue, or blue with white trim. [Blue dog syndrome]

*Color Dilution Alopecia* is easily seen - 
Affected breeds include: 
Irish Setter, 
Bernese Mountain Dog,
Chow Chow, 
Chihuahua,
Dachshund [both Std & Mini],
Doberman Pinscher,
Great Dane, 
Italian greyhound,
Miniature Pinscher, 
Newfoundland,
Poodle [standard], 
Saluki, 
Shetland Sheepdog, 
Whippet,
Yorkshire terrier.

Cross-breeds or random-bred dogs that have these breeds as ancestors can also develop Color-Dilution-Alopecia.
Only dogs that are *fawn or blue* may develop dilution alopecia. It's an incurable condition, but no other colors 
are affected, only blue or fawn dogs.

Onset & symptoms
Affected dogs lose large patches of hair; they appear moth-eaten. The pattern begins along the spine, 
then spreads to the face & other areas. The hair first becomes dry & brittle - a "staring" coat - then falls out.
The bared skin then becomes dry & bumpy, as affected follicles become blackheads or pustules, which may 
ooze or rupture. The naked skin may become scaly, or flake oily dandruff.

The naked areas are intensely itchy, & the dog's scratching can easily start secondary infections, which can be 
so severe as to be fatal. For the dog's lifetime, the bare skin needs special ointments to keep it moist & quell 
the agonizing itch.

Affected pups *look* normal at birth, but begin losing hair as early as 16-WO, altho 6-MO to 3-YO is 
the possible range. There is no cure - once symptoms start, the dog will need special shampoos, skin care, & to be 
kept out of the sun to prevent sunburn & melanomas.

It is possible to buy a pup, take her or him home, & have that dog develop CDA at 2-YO, by which time, 
the breeder may have repeated the breeding; it's imperative for any puppy-buyer to immediately notify 
the breeder of CDA or blue-dog syndrome, so that even that late, they KNOW there are problems 
in their lines - it is also important 
to alert the national breed-club, so that if the breeder does not do the right thing [notify the buyers of 
their pups, the owner of any stud who may have been used for that litter, siblings who may be affected, 
or any dilute dogs descended from that line] THE BREED CLUB can notify those persons owning those dogs.

Blue-dog syndrome can also appear in puphood or during a dog's first 12-Mos. It manifests as skin issues 
& haircoat issues which are either acute & recurring, or chronic & only move from moderate to severe,
PLUS the dog or pup catches every germ that moves by, suffering from ear-infections, UTIs, URIs, 
pinkeye, come & go diarrhea, etc. It's an incessant battle just to keep the dog out of the vet's office.

Claws that crack, split, grow poorly, or are discolored / thickened & twisted, or undersized for the dog, 
are one telltale. Nose-leather may also dry, crack, flake, develop sores, etc. Ear infections / yeast problems 
are common, as are secondary skin-infections from things as minor as a mosquito bite.

So the neighbor's dog *could* develop Color-Dilution Alopecia, but can't develop blue-dog syndrome.
.
.


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

You dont get GSDs with white tail tips unless the dog is all white which would then be masking the black tail tip that all GSDs have
CDA does not appear in Blues that have come from standard coat colour in the GSD only those that are Blues from dilute sire & dam
I dont see the point of mentioning a condition that is not in the GSD in a thread about GSDs


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> I do love white GSDs...
> 
> & Teddy -
> Apache Pups Available - Vonthurlow German Shepherds
> ...





Wildmoor said:


> No, [liver] isn't a recognised colour, although the UK KC will still register [the dog].
> *These type of breeders breed for colour only, regardless of health conditions in [their] lines.*


I'm completely confused - 
Why would anyone say this breeder *"breeds only for COLOR, without regard for the health of pups"*, 
when i thought we'd just been discussing the test-results posted on that website for the sires & dams?

Do i have the wrong breeder? :blink:


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> I'm completely confused -
> Why would anyone say this breeder *"breeds only for COLOR, without regard for the health of pups"*,
> when i thought we'd just been discussing the test-results posted on that website for the sires & dams?
> 
> Do i have the wrong breeder? :blink:


If you were in the UK and you knew the breed well you wouldnt be asking this question - there is more to a GSD than just hip & elbow results not that these will have a full 5 generations of that, but there are also other genetic conditions in the lines


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Wildmoor said:


> You don't get GSDs with white tail tips ...


I posted about *both* Blue-Dog Syndrome - which can arise in solid-blue GSDs - 
*and* Color-Dilution Alopecia. Either can occur *in any breed* where those coat-colors can occur.

DanDogMan asked for more information, & i offered some. :001_smile:


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> I posted about *both* Blue-Dog Syndrome - which can arise in solid-blue GSDs -
> *and* Color-Dilution Alopecia. Either can occur *in any breed* where those coat-colors can occur.
> 
> DanDogMan asked for more information, & i offered some. :001_smile:


Not in the UK it doesnt, and CDA is only in dilutes whos parents are also dilutes in the GSDs in the UK


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

PoisonGirl said:


> Oh I didn't think of that!
> I found another site and had to close it off right away there was loads of pics of sloped backed gsds on it!
> I want a ''normal'' looking one!
> 
> Ohh I am having a dilema I just fell upon a pic of an EBT puppy! The other breed I would love to have!!


Its such a mindboggling process but good on you for doing all this research!!

I hate it when they have the sloping backs I know that's what some people say they should look like but i think its terrible! I know one where we walk and her back slopes I almost cant look at her.

Have you thought about contacting guide dogs?? They still breed GSDs and will want to re-home any that don't make the grade. You wont be able to get a pup though that's the only problem. They are more likely to have a more flat top line than ones bred for show. Just an idea to think on.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

You might also want to consider working lines.

If you particularly like longcoats, there are some working line longcoats out there, but you do have to look hard.

This is my working line boy, and I wouldn't have any other type now (although I still love my gorgeous woollies Flame and Yogi )



















The thing to bear in mind with working lines (from my experience only) is that they are higher drive and higher energy, no more or less intelligent than the other types, but definitely with more energy to go ... and go ... and go


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Just to throw more ideas into the "pot" so to speak.

I have a (German show line) Kazeti longcoat male called Yogi. He is not an exaggerated type, but is definitely more angulated than Flame and Zak.










And an English obedience type longcoat female called Flame










All the different types have their admirers (and their critics) and I would suggest you try to meet as many different dogs of each type as you can, so you can assess for yourself their pros and cons.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Moobli said:


> Just to throw more ideas into the "pot" so to speak.
> 
> I have a (German show line) Kazeti longcoat male called Yogi. He is not an exaggerated type, but is definitely more angulated than Flame and Zak.
> 
> ...


I love Yogi - I hope to get a Kazeti GSD in the future.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Moobli said:


> You might also want to consider working lines.
> 
> If you particularly like longcoats, there are some working line longcoats out there, but you do have to look hard.
> 
> ...


Your boy is the image of my 'one day' dog :001_wub:, A working line sable gsd like him is my dream dog, I've got to wait for my daughter to grow up a bit first and for when I have the time needed for a working line shepherd. if you don't mind me asking where did you get him from and do they have a website?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Apollo2012 said:


> *Your boy is the image of my 'one day' dog* :001_wub:, A working line sable gsd like him is my dream dog, I've got to wait for my daughter to grow up a bit first and for when I have the time needed for a working line shepherd. if you don't mind me asking where did you get him from and do they have a website?


Same here - he is gorgeous :001_wub:


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