# Breeder Dillema - MC



## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Hello,

I'm new here and have joined due to a seemingly bad experience and need some advice  I'm after a maine coon kitten and have researched breeders and what I need to know etc. There's 3 lovely breeders that im in contact with and i was waiting for their babies to be born end of march, ready in july - I was in no rush and really want to do this right. However, my partner saw an advert on a free advertising website (don't know if im allowed to say the name?) of a white maine coon kitten (he really loves whites) and wanted to meet it. I sent a 3 messages with questions etc as well as a text. The text was answered 'boy or girl?' but all my messages with the questions were not. Now im ALREADY feeling hesitant about this because every other breeder iv spoken to have wanted to know about me and me about them etc. I don't know her prefix or her name and she's not answering, so no time to research. We go to visit her and the house stinks. Really stinks of cat wee. fair enough i think, it's full of kittens. The kitten is shown to me on his own in a room (he was sweet) - quite skinny. I ask to see dad and mum so they bring them in one at a time - mum looks fine. Dad is stained and stinks of urine and also has a dirty face and eyes - very affectionate though (i wanted to see the other stud as well, who they brought in). Asked if they were hcm negative (yes) and about hip dysplasia to which she said 'er no, maine coons don't get tested for that'. Next i asked to see pedigrees of parents - now i didn't realise this at the time but only the gccf registration certificates were shown. I have not seen actual pedigree certificates and have since messaged her about this requesting a photo. I'v also since found out that the boy is underweight - he's 6 weeks old and only 500g when he should be at least 700g. He's fed on felix....:frown2: He doesn't really have the coon look either (no strong jaw and ears not big).
She's not on the gccf suspension list that i can see and her prefix is registered but I can't find anything else at all (all other breeders there has been at least 3 pages on google, not 3 links). 
Unfortunately, a deposit has already been put down, which i feel we did too hastily and my partner wants us to stick with him because we can't afford to just throw away £100. If £100 hadn't of been put down, I would be saying no right now. Do i stick with him and hope he grows and fills out and re-assess in 6 weeks time when i pick him up? Or do I cancel now and accept that we've lost the money and learn a lesson from this?  
I was hoping to show him. I spent months researching so that this didn't happen and now i feel like a fool! Any advice much appreciated xx


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I am sorry but you know the answer. Look on it as a lesson learnt and move on.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Jonescat said:


> I am sorry but you know the answer. Look on it as a lesson learnt and move on.


I agree with this. £100 lost on a deposit is less than thousands of pounds spent on potential veterinary care the kitten might need because of an unscrupulous breeder. Would the kitten even be vaccinated twice before coming to you? Neutered? Registered with the GCCF?

Also just food for thought - I recently learnt that anyone can register a prefix as long as they have a club to back them up, and not all clubs are stringent.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

yeah i do  Just need to convince my partner we need to let it go, now.

Smoking Guns - Yes he would apparently by chipped, vaccinated and gccf registered. There are a few photos of her maine coons being shown and with ribbons on the cages, Hence why i cant decide if shes legitimate and im worrying/being picky over nothing, or if my gut is right and somethings not adding up :/ 
Oh really? Thats worrying! :/


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh dear  I think you could be walking into trouble and you know it too  Even if this breeder is legitimate the conditions sound far from perfect  I would say walk away but agree that £100 is a lot to lose 
There is every chance that the kitten will change in appearance and of course will put on weight. While being fed on Felix isn't ideal it isn't that unusual even with breeders. I am more concerned that the house stinks and that you did not see mum with the kittens.
When you saw the registration card did you check that both mother and father were on the active register and were you shown any proof that they had been tested?
Did you sign anything to agree that your deposit was non-refundable? Or were you even told that it was? If not you may be able to try to get it back.
You know that you have let your heart rule your head but you're certainly not the first person this has happened to.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Oh dear  I think you could be walking into trouble and you know it too  Even if this breeder is legitimate the conditions sound far from perfect  I would say walk away but agree that £100 is a lot to lose
> There is every chance that the kitten will change in appearance and of course will put on weight. While being fed on Felix isn't ideal it isn't that unusual even with breeders. I am more concerned that the house stinks and that you did not see mum with the kittens.
> When you saw the registration card did you check that both mother and father were on the active register and were you shown any proof that they had been tested?
> Did you sign anything to agree that your deposit was non-refundable? Or were you even told that it was? If not you may be able to try to get it back.
> You know that you have let your heart rule your head but you're certainly not the first person this has happened to.


I know - i wish id insisted on seeing where the kittens were kept etc. We drove 5 hours to get there and it was late at night so didn't want to keep them too long  I feel so stupid now.
I saw that the mum was on the active register, the dad was an import which i remember seeing a certificate for - i don't remember if he was registered active or not. I didn't sign anything at all - i asked if it was non refundable and she said yes. I have a receipt for my deposit but that does not state non refundable on it - i dont think we will get it back though.

I have photos of him if anyone would like to see him and give their opinion x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It would be nice to see the photos There are a couple of MC breeders on here who may be able to give you their opinion of him


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Pop a photo up.
Also you can ask for the veterinary medical records for that kitten via the breeder who should only be too happy to oblige.

If the kittens parents are HCM negative, you are entitled to see certificates to clarify this.

Some white kittens can be deaf so should have a hearing certificate.

Not liking mum not being with her kittens though and the stud boy should be in top condition not stained and smelly.

I have kittens indoors and parents, it is not impossible to keep the home clean, I would hate a home smelling of cat pee.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

if in doubt, do without.

first loss is your last loss.

This all doesn't mean that it couldn't work out and the kitten could turn out to be happy and healthy and everything ok....but then, why give your money to somebody you are not at all happy with in the first place?


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> It would be nice to see the photos There are a couple of MC breeders on here who may be able to give you their opinion of him


Okay, will do. I hope shes not on here! 
iv attatched them as files as not sure how else to upload from my phone.

ill make sure to ask for those hearing and hcm certificates, thank you


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

How old is the kitten in those photograph's.


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## Mum to Missy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hi, I think you already know the answer, but if I were you I wouldn't just walk away, I'd run, this doesn't sound like a good breeder, the dad sounds as if he's kept in horrendous conditions and just a breeding machine. Do you know how many litters a year the Mums are allowed, are they all tested for the relevent MC problems etc.


You could be in for a whole load of heart ache and the kitten a life time of illness.

I got my MC, Gus from catcoonz on here and my new baby from her is due to be born any day now and I wouldn't go to any other breeder, there's no question she wont answer, even now, I am 100% confident in how she breeds and keeps her Queens and Studs and the kittens are just so well adjusted, sure I've looked at breeders a lot closer to me, but there's always been something that made me think, no way.

Whatever you decide, good luck


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

One question from me ..... is the breeder in Middlesex by any chance?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I know a breeder whose home smells - I think the one place she has carpet has been weed on. However it is clean & tidy, and her cats are all obviously clean and healthy. 

Males sometimes get stud tail so their coat at the base of the spine and along the tail isn't wonderful, sometimes they are a bit stinky, but they should have clean faces and look well kept & groomed and no staining on their coats.

I would expect to see the kitten with his mother (unless she is shy) in that I was taken to the room or part of the house where she is rearing it, I would expect to see dad in his stud quarters not being brought in, I might well see some of their other cats, I would expect to see the kitten with it's litter mates unless it's a singleton.

Did you see their back garden? If they have pens I'd want to see them as well, and expect them to be clean & tidy.

To be honest I'd have not continued after that first text. I have sent a few very curt replies to texts I've received, but they have been short & rude texts. Further honesty - I hate texts as an exchange of serious information which is what buying a kitten is. I prefer people to ring, if they won't do that to send an email. I like to have a good natter if they seem serious.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

catcoonz said:


> How old is the kitten in those photograph's.


 He's just turned 6 weeks old. and he's only 500g 



Mum to Missy said:


> Hi, I think you already know the answer, but if I were you I wouldn't just walk away, I'd run, this doesn't sound like a good breeder, the dad sounds as if he's kept in horrendous conditions and just a breeding machine. Do you know how many litters a year the Mums are allowed, are they all tested for the relevent MC problems etc.
> 
> You could be in for a whole load of heart ache and the kitten a life time of illness.
> 
> ...


She said one a year but im not so sure. I know she also breeds dogs and some other cats as well..I kind of feel i should rescue him - it's not the kittens fault. I know thats not a great idea though!
Thank you for the recommendation - i will look that breeder up  Edit: Just realised catcoonz is helping on this thread lol. (thank you!)


catcoonz said:


> One question from me ..... is the breeder in Middlesex by any chance?


No, she's just outside of manchester.



OrientalSlave said:


> I know a breeder whose home smells - I think the one place she has carpet has been weed on. However it is clean & tidy, and her cats are all obviously clean and healthy.
> 
> Males sometimes get stud tail so their coat at the base of the spine and along the tail isn't wonderful, sometimes they are a bit stinky, but they should have clean faces and look well kept & groomed and no staining on their coats.
> 
> ...


I didnt see the back garden, it was quite late by the times i got there. I will ask to see it and the rest of the kittens if we go back up. I wasn't impressed with dad - her other stud looked okay..he's a grand champion apparently but not bred by her. I think she has mobility issues which might be why the house isn't clean? 
I know, you're right. I didn't want to conitnue after that text but we decided she might have difficulties or something and to meet her. She's a nice lady but not the right breeder for me really...We just fell in love with the little ball of fluff and let our hearts rule our head


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Any chance of a name or prefix privately? Might be able to give you more help if I knew who it was.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

carly87 said:


> Any chance of a name or prefix privately? Might be able to give you more help if I knew who it was.


Yes that would be an idea, I know quite a few MC breeders and might recognise the prefix and could also recommend some to you.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

carly87 said:


> Any chance of a name or prefix privately? Might be able to give you more help if I knew who it was.





carolmanycats said:


> Yes that would be an idea, I know quite a few MC breeders and might recognise the prefix and could also recommend some to you.


I'm not able to send pm's at the minute as i havn't posted 25 posts. I'll post it to your visitors page if that's okay and then you could delete it?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lemonzaz said:


> I'm not able to send pm's at the minute as i havn't posted 25 posts. I'll post it to your visitors page if that's okay and then you could delete it?


It won't take long to post the other 20 if you find some innocuous threads and make non-committal comments.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lemonzaz said:


> <snip>
> I think she has mobility issues which might be why the house isn't clean?
> <snip>


Unlikely, since she is mobile enough to carry cats around and so on.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Please do not think you need to rescue the kitten.

Unfortunately although I have a litter due any day I have people waiting but I may have a litter again soon as I have just mated up a queen.

This is how I do things, other breeders will do things differently so this is only myself I am posting about.

Firstly any potential owner will either contact me via email or telephone, I do expect potential owners to stay in regular contact so I can email new photograph's of kittens as they grow.

I do not have any viewings until after the kittens first vaccinations at 9 weeks of age, this is also after the kittens have had veterinary health checks.

Once my queen gives birth, a vet will do a home visit for me to ensure the mum and kittens are fine, another vet check at 6 weeks of age, 9 weeks again and the vaccine given, 12 weeks another vaccine, microchip.

Now at 9 weeks of age I invite any potential owner to view the whole litter with mum, show dad separately but by this age after the first vaccine the mum and kittens are then playing with all my queens, so potential owners get to see all the cats in my care.

At this point, if both parties are happy I then show health certificates of both parents, proof of active register for both parents, we then sit down and read the contract together.

I never ask for a deposit, my own reason being is I do not agree with holding somebody down to a kitten, at the end of the day they either return to collect my kitten or they don't.

Each kitten has its own vet record, I do encourage new owners to contact my vet so they can be assured the kitten is as healthy as I say it is, I do not want people to only take my word for it.

Kittens also have their own health tests done and leave with that certificate, I test for HCM (parents and kittens but swab only on kittens, parents are scanned), SMA and PK Def.

I do ask many questions, my reason being is I have purposely bred these kittens, they are my babies and it is my responsibility to ensure I have found the best possible home for each kitten, if I refuse anybody I will give my reason why and that decision is not negotiable.

You mention you would like to show, in my own opinion although yes sometimes show kittens do come along in a litter, I couldn't possibly tell an owner at 6 weeks of age which kitten has show potential.

So, you need to ask yourself some questions, what colour do you prefer, is your main reason showing, male/female.

Visit breeders and ask many questions, a breeder should be happy to answer all your questions.

Must admit, when I receive a text I don't reply, I want to build a friendship up with any potential owners and know my kitten has found the best home.

Also ask what happens if the kitten gets ill or your circumstances change, does the breeder say it is your kitten get on with it, or does the breeder help you for the lifetime of the kitten.

If the kitten dies does the breeder offer a replacement/refund?

The research you do now and the friendship you build is important.

Nobody can make your choice for you, but we can steer you in the right direction.


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

I'd say that unless someone on here can reassure you that the breeder is ok then walk away and put it down to experience. 

Just rationalise it in that the cat you do buy has cost £100 more than you expected. It's not that much to save you possible heartache not to mention possible vets bills.

Good luck what ever you decide.


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## Maldives (Mar 12, 2015)

My feelings would be go with your gut instinct! I would be very unhappy if I were to be shown cats by a breeder that were in the condition you described. I too agree with someone else on here who said something along the lines that having cats does not mean a dirty smelly home!! Whenever I have purchased one of my pedigree kittens they have always been shown to me along with their mummy and also inside the breeder's clean home. You may be letting yourself in for serious heartbreak here better to forget £100 and go to a breeder recommended by someone on this site. I'm new to this site but already realise everyone is seriously into their animals and their advice is the best you could get. Please really think about this it could be better to wait for the perfect kitten for a few more months.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Just to relate to you my experience with my kitten's breeder and why I chose to go with her:

I found the breeder through the breed's (main) club website. There were a few I looked at, both in my area and further out but still accessible for me eg. nearish train stations or isn't too far a drive. I emailed a few with plenty of info about myself, my partner, and our situation. I also asked if they currently had a litter or if they had plans. A few replied (I didn't hold out too much hope as I know emails can be lost/some breeders just prefer not to have email contact) and I was pleased with all the responses as none seemed to be just after my money; they all had more questions about me and invited me to visit so I guess they must have been happy with my replies too.

I agreed to visit Gunter's breeder as she currently had two litters (one of 5, one of 2 as that ended up being an emergency C-section but 2 of 4 were saved), with a choice of three kittens available for reservation. Also out of convenience, as she is in London and also was off work for the week as were both my partner and I. I did not arrange any other visits with other breeders until after we'd seen these kittens. After agreeing a day and time, the breeder also sent along pictures of each of the three available kittens, and since we did not have a colour preference, we were more and happy to swing by.

Once we arrived at the breeder's house, we noticed that the house did have an odour but was not horrendous or worrying, considering she had a dog and was raising two litters. The house itself was clean and tidy apart from the floor the kittens were raised (three storey house, kittens confined to one room until older) - I mean it was clean, but there were a lot of toys everywhere! We were led up to the first floor which had a living room and kitchen, where the kittens had free roam, and we met a family who had already chosen their kittens and were just visiting as they had arrived slightly late and we had arrived slightly early!

We ultimately chose Gunter, after much playing with not only the three available kittens but with all the kittens, because we were happy with the conditions the breeder raised them in, and the condition of the queens, and the condition of the other cats in the house (both neuters and queens that were not calling at the time). We were also really pleased with the breeder as not only was she very informative, she was also just an all-round nice lady who clearly really loved her cats. We also met her (grown up) daughter and her husband and had a brief chat with them.

From then on, the breeder sent us photo updates and we added each other on Facebook. We visited Gunter three more times before we picked him up, and each time we had no concerns about the welfare of the cats living at her house, even when we had a surprise visit by accident - we'd put it down as the Saturday but she'd put it down on the Sunday - but she welcomed us in regardless. I say this to mean that it wasn't like when there were no visitors her house was a mess and the kittens were confined to a crate or something.

She did not keep the stud at hers as she did not feel she had a suitable garden for a big enough pen to keep him, so we did not see him.

When went to collect Gunter, the breeder actually said: "I was in a kerfuffle all morning as I could not find the kittens' documents but it's OK! I have found them just in time for you. Someone came to collect Harmony (kitten from the C-section litter) but did not wait for me to find the docs, and said I could just post them along. But how did they know I even had documents? How could they just trust me so explicitly? I could have just been lying! I am flattered but if it was me collecting a kitten, I would not have left without its pedigree, reg papers, microchip proof and health book." I felt this was quite heartening even though we had already agreed to take Gunter and had paid in full by this point. I suppose it just cemented the idea with us that she was for real and we had made a good choice.

When Gunter had a few accidents with the toilet, I asked her for help and she gave plenty of advice. He has since been accident free for 2+ weeks.

Gunter came neutered, vaccinated twice, registered with FIFe (with the ability to import to GCCF), and microchipped directly with our names and address. I would certainly recommend my kitten's breeder and wouldn't hesitate to go back to her for another. I think the most important thing there is the continued trust between the breeder and the kitten owner.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

catcoonz said:


> Please do not think you need to rescue the kitten.
> 
> Unfortunately although I have a litter due any day I have people waiting but I may have a litter again soon as I have just mated up a queen.
> 
> ...


Thank you - You sound great, just the type of breeder i have been looking for. I have done a lot of research, so I'm disappointed that we let our heart rule our heads - he was very cute. I do want a good relationship with a breeder and to stay in contact and i dont feel like i will get that with this lady.
The text was because i couldnt get hold of her on email and its the only way she would reply. i much prefer to email or call.
No, im not only after a show - i would quite like to because id like to get to know the breed, breeders and am interested in learning more. One day in the future (5 or so years away) I would quite like to be a breeder myself so I want to do things properly. Should the right kitten come along and he's not show quality though then i dont mind because he will be a loved pet at the end of the day. Whites and silvers are the colours i particularly love, although i love dark tabbies as well!
Thank you for the advice and how you do things, it gives a nice basis.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this breeder/what to say? I'm a bit nervy!


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Thank you, everyone, for your help, experiences and advice. I am going to pull out. I am expecting not to receive my deposit back and will see it as a bonus if I do. Whilst the kitten is adorable and i am upset at having to lose him, I think it's for the best :frown5: I dont want to encourage this breeder. I should have trusted my gut and not rushed in. Lesson learnt!
Please feel free to message me your recommendations!


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

Lemonzaz said:


> Thank you, everyone, for your help, experiences and advice. I am going to pull out. I am expecting not to receive my deposit back and will see it as a bonus if I do. Whilst the kitten is adorable and i am upset at having to lose him, I think it's for the best :frown5: I dont want to encourage this breeder. I should have trusted my gut and not rushed in. Lesson learnt!
> Please feel free to message me your recommendations!


Sometimes our heart takes over our head, I'm glad you came on here and asked for advice, you've gone with your gut instincts and made the right decision 

Good luck in your search for your purrfect Coonie  x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Good luck Lemonzaz - you have made the right decision I think.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

Hi. i have messaged you but having asked a friend who has some top MCs, you have done absiolutely the right thing!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lemonzaz said:


> <snip>
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this breeder/what to say? I'm a bit nervy!


Simply send them an email or whatever saying sorry on reflection you've changed your mind, and since it's only a few days since you paid your deposit would they be willing to refund it?

If they ask why, tell-em straight.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Simply send them an email or whatever saying sorry on reflection you've changed your mind, and since it's only a few days since you paid your deposit would they be willing to refund it?
> 
> If they ask why, tell-em straight.


Thank you  I'v drafted this, could you tell me what you think?

'I'v spoken to the maine coon breed club and gccf for some guidelines on purchasing a maine coon and what is required in terms of health tests etc, and they have informed me that the parents do indeed need their hips scored and also that white cats need a hearing certificate and that a hcm certificate should also be shown. Unfortunately, based on the kittens parents not being hip scored, as well as not seeing certificates for their hearing or hcm outcome, I would like my deposit returned please, either by bank transfer, paypal or a cheque. Thankfully as they are only 6 weeks, you will still have 6 weeks left to advertise them and find another buyer  I am sure he will go very quickly! Im genuinely gutted, and Im sorry if this has messed you around. I feel it is the best course, as do those who have advised me.

Kind regards,'


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't apologise.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Okay, I will take out the apology and just say i think it's for the best  
(I just feel a bit rude, messing her around!)


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Sorry for the double post! 
Thank you so much catcoonz for your help with the letter. I very much appreciate it x


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

UPDATE:
Just recieved this reply from her

'hcm is negative and has been done pur agreement does not mention any agreed tests I jad ckearly said if you wish to cancel you would loose ypur deposit please be advised I am happy to provide pedigree I have just got home please advise if you wish to cancel but as sdvised the deposit is non refundable sorry but I have turned several buyers away which I had told you on your arrival no pressure was placed on you to purchase our agreements regarding to deposit remains in.place let me know if you wish to proceed rgds 
if you wish to pay for hip scoring the cat would need a general anaethetic would have paw shaved therefore could not be shown intil hair returned and costs 120 pounds far kitten is far too young for this test'

It does not say non refundable on my receipt, though she did say it verbally when i asked x


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

To be honest... I'm not sure I'd have trusted someone who wrote like that haha. I know people have dyslexia etc but I don't know, just the poorly written email would put me off personally in the first instance, as it can be quite hard to decipher and meanings could be lost. That could be important when it comes to things like making a high value purchase such as a kitten.

Edit: also this is worrying - "our agreement does not mention any agreed tests"....


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

I know, i didnt want to but i thought maybe she had writing difficulties and didn't want to base it on just that 

thinking of replying with this

'As a GCCF breeder you agree to abide by their code which is to provide a healthy kitten who's parents and kittens they prodcue are vet checked. Your advert clearly said they would be vet checked. Not only am i not happy that certain standard tests have not been done, but i also was not impressed with the condition of your white stud.
Secondly, this is within less than 7 days that i am informing you that i do not wish to proceed with the purchase so no expenses have been incurred. There are no grounds to hold the deposit. You have 6 weeks to re-advertise the kitten, so will not be suffering financial loss. I don't want to get nasty about this, but it is something i am willing to seek legal advice on.
I do not wish to proceed with the purchase and would like my deposit refunded on the basis of the relevant health tests not being done'


Ugh and just got this reply:

'just checked with my vet hip scoring cannot be done on any cat until 10 to 12 months he has never ever heard of hip scores on cats only dogs so it sounds lije some is scare mongering you pjease let md kniw by the end of the day if you wish to cancel sale'
??


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

This is the response she has given to me. 

'I do not understand what your concerns at all I have spoken to my vet regarding hip scoring it is not possible my stud cat is a stud cat vaccination up to date very heavy good bones if you were not happy why leave a deposit I am a reputable breeder have never had issues before u object very strongly to threats indeed I am concerned at the type of home my kitten would be going to if this is how you behave thetefore I will be returning your depisit and will ensure people in the cat world are aware of your threats and inappropriate allegations and would not sell you a kitten'


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sorry we can't allow naming and shaming because of potential libel issues.
On the plus side though it does look as if you will be getting your deposit back.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Okay thats fair enough. Can I put my name then? So people know I am reputable?

It's Jade Cara Hyndman


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

The only 'threat' I can see is that you mentioned was if she didn't refund the deposit - sounds like a very, very defensive reply to me - you are much better out of there  
With regards to her 'threats' to 'ensure people in the cat world are aware of your threats and inappropriate allegations and would not sell you a kitten' I'd ignore it. Those very same breeders may already be aware of her 

Hard as it may be, get your money back and move on. You will find another kitten from a nice, friendly breeder that you have no concerns about and will feel much better.

Oh and if it were me, I'd be doing my own research with regards to the hip scoring to find out if this is true.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

To be honest it sounds like empty threats from the breeder. So what if her friends won't sell you kittens? If they're friends with her and know about how her studs are kept and how her cats and kittens are not tested, then perhaps they also do not adhere to the same stringent health tests you'd expect from a reputable breeder. If that is the case then you wouldn't want kittens from them anyway. Really opens your eyes and sounds like you had a lucky escape. You just have to move on and use this was a lesson for the future. Poor kittens though.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hip Dysplasia In Cats


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

What is going on with Maine Coons and breeders?! Sounds like you are better off out of it.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

So, you get your deposit back which is good news. 

Now you can search for a health tested kitten from a breeder who cares. 

If you need help searching, I am sure many here will help you with your journey.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the link OS 
So, according to that, it's another thing that breeding MC's should be tested for? And if the parents carry the gene signs can be seen by x-ray on a kitten aged 6+ months?
This website says "Responsible breeders are aware of this and are screening their cats. "
Is this true? Must admit I never heard of this in cats, just dogs


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> Thanks for the link OS
> So, according to that, it's another thing that breeding MC's should be tested for? And if the parents carry the gene signs can be seen by x-ray on a kitten aged 6+ months?
> This website says "Responsible breeders are aware of this and are screening their cats. "
> Is this true? Must admit I never heard of this in cats, just dogs


If you Google something like 'Maine Coon hip testing' you will get plenty more results suggesting they should be tested - I've simply put almost the first one I found here. You need to read a number of them and decide if it's a real issue or not. Personally I think it is.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have never heard of hip scoring in cats, i wonder exactly how many breeders do this, not many i bet,if any, in fact i bet not many know about it, if the kittens vare too young to test how will the breeder know, unless she has had a cat with hip dysplasia


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

X-raying hips would obviously(?) only apply to adult cats? From what age I wonder? And would it be a one-off x-ray?


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> The only 'threat' I can see is that you mentioned was if she didn't refund the deposit - sounds like a very, very defensive reply to me - you are much better out of there
> With regards to her 'threats' to 'ensure people in the cat world are aware of your threats and inappropriate allegations and would not sell you a kitten' I'd ignore it. Those very same breeders may already be aware of her
> 
> Hard as it may be, get your money back and move on. You will find another kitten from a nice, friendly breeder that you have no concerns about and will feel much better.
> ...


Haha, yes, i had snapped a bit at that point. It's only saying i will seek legal advice though! 
Thank you so much  I'm feeling a lot happier and am going to start again properly now



smoking guns said:


> To be honest it sounds like empty threats from the breeder. So what if her friends won't sell you kittens? If they're friends with her and know about how her studs are kept and how her cats and kittens are not tested, then perhaps they also do not adhere to the same stringent health tests you'd expect from a reputable breeder. If that is the case then you wouldn't want kittens from them anyway. Really opens your eyes and sounds like you had a lucky escape. You just have to move on and use this was a lesson for the future. Poor kittens though.


Very true! And yes I have had a lucky escape havnt I. Im so glad i came to this site and got advice from all of you lovely peoples - I knew something wasn't fitting right.
I hope the kittens will be okay...poor babies 

All sorted now though and deposit returned! I have learnt a BIG lesson. Thank you so much everyone! I am truly very very grateful.
I have notified the gccf in regards to this 'breeder' so hopefully they will look into things


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## Mum to Missy (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm so pleased on your decision and that you've got your money back 

Everything happens for a reason and your new kitten will be so much more special for it


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## bingolitle (Dec 6, 2014)

Hip scoring in cats is just like hip scoring in dogs. You screen potential breeding cats and only breed from ones with good results. 

I believe they are graded:
Normal 
Grade 1 (Mild)
Grade 2 (Moderate) 
Grade 3 (Severe)

Grades 2 and 3 should not be bred from and Grade 1 would only be bred to a cat with normal hips. It's a multiple inheritance thingy though, so they recommend that each generation is tested to make sure something hasn't popped up out of the blue.

Paw Peds includes Hip Dysplasia for both Maine Coons and Norwegians in their health programmes.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

So glad it has worked out OK for you. And enlightened others at the same time, thank you


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Well done! I was impressed that you were backing out but getting your money back is awesome! Now onwards to your perfect kitten....


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm so pleased you've had a good outcome. Keep us posted on how you get on in your search.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I am so pleased your deposit has been refunded and I wish you all the best in your search for another kitten. I noticed you said you want to show. Maybe you know this already but I haven't seen it mentioned. Not all purebred cats are show quality, many do not meet the standard for showing. If you are serious about showing, you should inform the breeders you approach, so they can ensure any kitten you buy is suitable. Show quality kittens can cost more to buy, but buying a pet quality kitten and trying to show it would be a waste. It costs money to show and a pet quality kitten would get nowhere.


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## Maldives (Mar 12, 2015)

So pleased on the outcome you have absolutely done the right thing. I'm sure many people in the know on this site will be able to point you in the right direction for a breeder they would recommend. When you get the right kitten it will be so worth the wait. Great news on return of deposit. I'm sure this experience has taught us all a huge lesson. Take care and good luck in your search for your baby. Please keep us all updated on how it goes.


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