# 7 Month old puppy relentless in Humping legs



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi All,

We have a 7 month old male Flat coat called Hari  
Everything has been going really well with training, just done his Bronze Good Dog Manners Scheme and soon to start his sliver.
But all off a sudden the last few weeks he has started to constantly hump my partners leg, to the point where she cant be in the same room as him. The second he see's her its straight for the leg and knawing at her arms if, he rarely does it to me and when i tell him to stop he will.
Once he starts she gets him to sit and wait for a treat (which he does) but once he has eaten it, he is straight back up on her.
He has not been neutered and its something we dont really want to do especially with him being a flat coat (cancer rates and long puppy stage  ).

We are going to consult the people who do the puppy classes, but was hoping somebody would have some advice for us ? So far we have used Positive training with him and its working really well (apart from the above).

Thanks

Mark + Sioned


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Welcome to PF.

Could you maybe leave a houseline on him to guide him away and redirect his attentions? I'd worry that you are getting into a chain of humping = positive attention for a treat and he might hump because he knows he'll get a treat.


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi Thanks for the reply, that was one of our worries with the whole concept of positive training techniques but to be honest it has worked really well with everything else. I dont think we have been doing it long enough for him to make the connection as he hasn't with any of the other training. Maybe its just a case of carrying on and hoping the penny drops.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

marky233 said:


> Hi Thanks for the reply, that was one of our worries with the whole concept of positive training techniques but to be honest it has worked really well with everything else. I dont think we have been doing it long enough for him to make the connection as he hasn't with any of the other training. Maybe its just a case of carrying on and hoping the penny drops.


I train positively but I think we do have to be aware of some things. For instance if mine barked in the garden they were called inside and treated. They soon started running out to do a single bark then running in and looking at me expectantly! I have actually left it as they will bring themselves in still if they are barking at a trigger about 80% of the time and if I recall them will come away the other 20% so it's good but they did make the association quickly and succeed in training me well .

With the houseline you could use it to reinforce a leave / off command but you give it and then do some training perhaps so your pup learns to come away entirely?

Not sure TBH. Hopefully someone with better ideas than me will be along soon!!!


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea that sounds like a good idea we will give it a try. For the house line we have a 5m long lead for recall training could we use that ? as if we used his normal lead he would think he was going for a walk


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Pretty much what Dogless has said really, sounds like you could be building a behaviour chain of hump, get told to sit and given a treat. Dogs are really good at picking up on stuff like that, especially when you don't want them to 

If you know he's going to hump then don't wait for him to start, get in there with the sit cue before he can do more than think about it. Or ask him to do something else appropriate like fetch a toy and have a game with him. Again before he starts to hump. If you miss it and he does start then personally I'd go with a time out, simply remove yourself from the room and shut the door behind you for about 20 seconds. Basically sending the message that "you hump, I leave and fun is over" rather than "you hump, I ask you to do this, I give you a treat".


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Agree very much with what has been said, it sounds a bit like the humping is his cue to train your missus to reward him. My flatcoat bitch air humps the youngest of my Labs when she's excited, all I have to do to tell her to stop is verbally tell her not to.


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Many thanks for the reply's we will try to break that connection, the only thing that slightly worries me is that he was humping like this before we started the sit and treat idea, if its not related to the treats, would you do anything differently to the above ideas (which we are trying now).

I appreciate its almost impossible to give advice over the web without seeing first hand, so we really appreciate the advice.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, I would do exactly the same as I said in my post  Try and distract before he even starts, if he does start then remove him or the person being humped (usually the easier option as it then doesn't become a game of catch the dog to remove him). I've done it with my lab who has a tendency to hump other dogs, watch for the signs he's about to hump and stop him before he starts, if I do miss the signs I remove him from play for a short break.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Does your partner do any training with him at other times?


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

marky233 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We have a 7 month old male Flat coat called Hari
> Everything has been going really well with training, just done his Bronze Good Dog Manners Scheme and soon to start his sliver.
> ...


It may be that getting him to sit for the treat has just become part of the whole scenario now, he humps which he obviously finds rewarding and its a way to get attention, then although he has to sit before getting the treat its another form of reward and part of the whole "game" and then he just goes back immediately anyway, to presumeably be told to sit and then get another food treat, So you may be inadvertently rewarding him further for it.

When he does it too, any acknowledgement for it, and that can be telling him to get off, trying to push him down or away (at least initially when he started to do it) Looking at him and/or making eye contact are all forms of acknowledgement for doing it. The more he does it and gets over aroused and more exciteable and into the behaviour then the harder its going to be to make him stop and calm down. Also if you wait until he gets into it too that's going to make it harder. You really need to try to interrupt or stop the behaviour as soon as you see him think about it or go to do it.

Have you tried as soon as he makes a beeline for her as she enters the room interrupting him with a firm Ahh Ahh, if he takes more notice of you then maybe you try it initially then she can do it after once you have seen it works and he gets the message. If you keep a short lead on him, and you can get leads that are about a foot long with a handle attached to his collar, you can then lead him out and take him to another room and leave him to calm down.
Let him out but both continue to ignore him, and if he stops then get him to sit and give a treat and attention. If he makes a bee line for her again, then interrupt and disagree with the behaviour with the Ahh Ahh and then straight out again and repeat the whole, thing and keep doing it. If you start this when you are there with you doing it, then eventually get your partner to do it too and again keep repeating it also if she has too. If your quick enough you can even get between him and her as you are saying the Ahh Ahh to interrupt so he is body blocked from reaching her in the early stages.

It might help too if she folds her arms close to her body, her cant gnaw them so easy then, and also turns her back on him.

This way he will learn there is a consequence of attempting it or doing it, gives him a chance to calm down, and as he doesn't get a treat until his calmed down and has ceased it altogether then there is no danger of making the treat an extra reward for it either. As all he gets for it is removed and totally ignored he should with enough persistence realise that its not rewarding in the slightest.


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi yes we have both been doing the training together, though she has been on her elective the past 6 weeks and coming home just for the weekends, so im not sure if that related might be. 

He is getting pretty good now, all the basics he does really well, just in the middle of recall and teaching him to sit to greet people.


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> It may be that getting him to sit for the treat has just become part of the whole scenario now, he humps which he obviously finds rewarding and its a way to get attention, then although he has to sit before getting the treat its another form of reward and part of the whole "game" and then he just goes back immediately anyway, to presumeably be told to sit and then get another food treat, So you may be inadvertently rewarding him further for it.
> 
> When he does it too, any acknowledgement for it, and that can be telling him to get off, trying to push him down or away (at least initially when he started to do it) Looking at him and/or making eye contact are all forms of acknowledgement for doing it. The more he does it and gets over aroused and more exciteable and into the behaviour then the harder its going to be to make him stop and calm down. Also if you wait until he gets into it too that's going to make it harder. You really need to try to interrupt or stop the behaviour as soon as you see him think about it or go to do it.
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks fro the reply, totally agree with you and everybody else. I think the best thing is for me to try and get in between them as he is walking up to her, or just before he starts.
Because he is a little devil if you push him down or use your hands he sees this as a game and just plays/humps more, and if she turned her back he would just hump her back lol. I think I need to do the initial 'block' and telling off and then once he starts to understand its wrong for my partner to continue it. Fingers crossed .


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

marky233 said:


> Hi, thanks fro the reply, totally agree with you and everybody else. I think the best thing is for me to try and get in between them as he is walking up to her, or just before he starts.
> Because he is a little devil if you push him down or use your hands he sees this as a game and just plays/humps more, and if she turned her back he would just hump her back lol. I think I need to do the initial 'block' and telling off and then once he starts to understand its wrong for my partner to continue it. Fingers crossed .


Often the time out and getting ignored gets the message across too, plus it gives them time to calm down, and if you let him out but ignore them for a bit longer to make sure he isn't going to start again, or repeat it if necessary and then not treating and giving attention until they have calmed down and got the message then it usually helps.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

marky233 said:


> Hi, thanks fro the reply, totally agree with you and everybody else. I think the best thing is for me to try and get in between them as he is walking up to her, or just before he starts.
> Because he is a little devil if you push him down or use your hands he sees this as a game and just plays/humps more, and if she turned her back he would just hump her back lol*. I think I need to do the initial 'block' and telling off and then once he starts to understand its wrong for my partner to continue it. * Fingers crossed .


Mark, if you are BOTH the owners of young Mr. Amorous, I am not sure whether it would be entirely wise if YOU correct his behaviour and not your partner.

Given that he is humping her and not you.

After all, you don't want him to somehow conclude that she obviously has zero authority in his pack as she isn't fit to set her own boundaries.

Think carefully whether it isn't better to let your partner handle this herself. My suggestion would be a clear verbal "no" from her if he starts humping followed by a brief, but consistant, "time out" if he ignores the "no". It may well take quite a few repetitions, even a couple of weeks, but he is only a tacker!

Personally, I wouldn't reward anything, or attempt to train anything alongside, which immediatly follows the humping. Way too confusing for the pup. It all becomes a bewildering intertwined blur of reward and reprimand which not only isn't fair to your youngster, who is still trying to figure it all out, but it will take you twice as long to eradicate the unwanted habit whilst firmly establishing the wanted one.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

- Install a tether.
- When he mounts, she clips him on it & walks away.
- Give him a few seconds; approach & ask for a SIT.
- No result? Walk off; repeat ad nauseum.
- When he *does* sit, warm sincere but quiet praise, & contact - preferably firm soothing 
chest-rubs or similar, not excited voices & rapid petting, but smooth, firm, & continuous.

AS SOON AS his forefeet leave the floor, step out of reach. It will take several days to a week or more,
depending upon how good she is at "catching him doing it right", even for a few seconds. A clicker can help!

For inspiration:
#1 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up' behavior-session #1 of 6 - YouTube

Once the 4-on-the-floor or SIT default is well-established, life should be much less humpy.
[Personally, were he mine, i'd snip him - U don't mention wanting to breed.]


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> ...you don't want him to somehow conclude that *she* obviously *has zero authority in his pack*,
> as she isn't fit to set her own boundaries.


i'm confused - as dogs don't form packs.  They don't even form *pairs:*
so far, research in coyote pairs has shown 100% monogamy, which could not possibly be further from dogs, 
who will breed with any available intact opp-sex dog, given the opportunity.

Male dogs don't do a doggone thing to help rear a litter, even if they sire the pups. 
Bitches are left alone, just as soon as they stop allowing males to mount, to feed themselves during whelp,
find a safe place to whelp & leave the pups, feed themselves AND the pups, & rear, teach, & protect the litter.

Daddy just walks off & finds someone else to hump, ASAP. Where's the 'pack'? 
Who forgoes mating to help rear a SINGLE litter, in a related group of dogs? No one.
Every male wants to sire, every bitch wants to breed. There's no collective group-reared litter.
There's no collective hunting, shared large-animal kills, multiple adults & subadults feeding ONE litter, 
taking turns to mind those pups, & so on.


----------



## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Most of the replies on here are probably right, but when we had Woody a very exuberant Lab, he tried to hump my leg, as it was me he tried it on I did the telling off, it only took one very!!!! loud NOOOOO!!!!! and I mean screamed at him and he never did it again


----------



## marky233 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi All,
Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everybody who offered advice, we followed it and hey presto a pup who no longer humps  well only a little try when he finishes his food and when he gets back from a walk lol.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

marky233 said:


> ...thanks to everybody who offered advice, we followed it and hey presto a pup who no longer humps
> well only ... when he finishes his food, *&* when he gets back from a walk. :lol:


Good!

Now U know his triggers, & can *prevent* the behavior- leave a leash on him as a drag, lead him AWAY 
from Ur legs when he tries to clasp one, & circle him cheerfully with a LURE: then get a sit, give the treat.
Repeat ad lib. :thumbsup:
.
.


----------



## JorgeLuisBorges (Jul 29, 2013)

marky233 said:


> Hi All,
> Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everybody who offered advice, we followed it and hey presto a pup who no longer humps  well only a little try when he finishes his food and when he gets back from a walk lol.


There was a lot of advice given- it would be good for people to know what you did!


----------

