# My dog attacked another dog. :(



## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

Hey guys!
I have a 7 y/of border collie girl.
She is an amazingly friendly dog to people and certain animals. As a puppy she has always been around dogs as all my friends have dogs (one having 5!!) And always took her on walks with them.
However she does not like dogs she hasn't met.. me and my dog got attacked by another dog when she was about 5 months old and I feel that could be the cause of her aggression towards dogs who run up to her??
I walked my dog as usual about 8 months ago, when a lady and her spaniel came up to us. My dog was on her lead as I didn't want other dogs near her. This dog was off the lead running around my dog barking and wanting to play. The lady came over for a chat and I explained that my dog does NOT like other dogs and she can be aggressive.. the lady 'reassured' me it was okay so my dog was let onto her long lead, she had a toy in her mouth the whole time. The lady carried on chatting away with me which I didn't exactly want anyway.. I turned away and her dog was barking 'playfully' at my dog(hers being off the lead). Her dog went too close to mine and my dog bit her dog on the body once all of a sudden,however I feel my dog just wanted to warn her off. Her dog was bleeding slightly so I went over to see if her dog was okay.. she just walked off angrily.
I have just seen her today whilst walking my dog in the street and she shouted at me saying that I'm the one who attacked her dog and telling me this has cost her £800?? Not sure what she wanted me to do about this? I know my dog bit her dog, however her dog was barking and going near my dog and my dog was on the lead! I also told the lady my dog did not like other dogs and can be aggressive. Is this entirely my fault??? I'm sick of telling people my dog doesn't like other dogs for them to tell me their dogs friendly! I have my dog on leash around other dogs which I feel is the right thing to do, but people still insist on allowing their dogs to run up to her and intimidate her!
Your thoughts??? X


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2017)

I would be much more proactive about keeping other dogs away from yours. 
You’re absolutely right, your dog, and no dog, should have to tolerate another dog invading their space and ignoring “go away” signals. 

For future reference, I’d also eliminate toys when other dogs are around to prevent resource guarding issues.


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

ouesi said:


> I would be much more proactive about keeping other dogs away from yours.
> You're absolutely right, your dog, and no dog, should have to tolerate another dog invading their space and ignoring "go away" signals.
> 
> For future reference, I'd also eliminate toys when other dogs are around to prevent resource guarding issues.


Thank you  since this had happened I have been a lot more reluctant to take my dog where other dogs are.. I always try and get dogs away from her if they're off the lead by shoo-ING and shouting them to go away. I also tell the owners to get their dogs. It would be different if I were walking towards their dogs.. but people around my area seem to think it's okay for their dog to run up to other dogs (going far away from their owners) and they can't get them to go back straight away!
My dog is amazing off lead. She always comes back to me and never runs off or annoys other dogs.. but since this hasite happened I never have her off lead anymore just incase.. 
I feel bad for the lady's dog, but my dog is lovely and I warned her about my dog but she didn't listen or go away or even let me leave. She wanted to talk and Stoke my dog. 
Surely there is some sort of law for people having dogs on the lead?? She is putting all the blame on me, even though her dog was out of control and off the lead!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Hmm, just sounds like a "lesson learned" type incident.....fault on both sides.

Remember that a lot of owners will lack understanding of 'problems' if they have never experienced them. There can also be an element of 'non belief' and I think that can be fuelled by breed stereotypes; for example a Labrador/Golden/Spaniel/other cute breed etc could NEVER possibly show aggression/fear/nerves/dislike of something/whatever, and if you have a dog with such issues you get second guessed almost. Like with this woman reassuring you that "it's okay". If you'd had a Rottie/GSD/Dobe/Bull breed or anything 'scary' on the end of the lead and told someone it can be aggressive, I doubt you'd get the same second guessed response 

As above, just be a bit more proactive in saying 'no' and move on.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Our answer to people with pesky dogs annoying ours , saying ' he's friendly' is , 'well ours aren't , they will snap ! ' . They are both intolerant of other dogs in their faces (or up their bums) and become very reactive.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

This particular lady was very foolish, IMO, for allowing her dog to approach yours, after you had warned her your dog may bite.

However, I don't understand why, when this woman told you it was alright, you stayed and allowed your bitch contact with her dog, when you knew your dog wouldn't like it and could be aggressive? You knew it wasn't alright.

In future, I would keep moving.

My Jack Russell doesn't like to be approached by strange dogs so, when this happens, I keep her moving forward, quickly, and warn the owner of the other dog that she isn't friendly.


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> Our answer to people with pesky dogs annoying ours , saying ' he's friendly' is , 'well ours aren't , they will snap ! ' . They are both intolerant of other dogs in their faces (or up their bums) and become very reactive.


You see, I say the same thing. However people don't tend to call their dog back or try and get them away from her.. 
It's getting hard for me to control her now as there's a lot of people who feel the need to have their dogs off lead(even walking near the roads!) I'm also very heavily pregnant and had a big collie run up to her as I was walking her the other day. I shouted at the owner and she said 'it was okay' as well. I had to hold my dog between my legs to try and control her with it sniffing her butt! She hated it. I feel being pregnant is making the whole walking thing a lot harder with inconsiderate owners around


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

Sweety said:


> This particular lady was very foolish, IMO, for allowing her dog to approach yours, after you had warned her your dog may bite.
> 
> However, I don't understand why, when this woman told you it was alright, you stayed and allowed your bitch contact with her dog, when you knew your dog wouldn't like it and could be aggressive? You knew it wasn't alright.
> 
> ...


I know I should've reacted differently in this situation, however at first they seemed to be getting along untill her dog started barking and trying to play with my dog, before I could get away I suppose it was too late. 
This was the first time it had ever happened before.. before this she was only 'warning' other dogs away by barring her teeth.
I just don't feel that the lady telling me it is all my fault was very fair, and I don't see how such a tiny nip could cost her £800?
I think she wants me to pay even though I highly doubt it cost that much in vet bills. My dog got badly bitten by another dog when she was younger and cost around 100! My dog only just got her dog so was a tiny cut to the dogs skin it was not even a proper 'bite' as I saw the dog before the lady stormed off...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Do you have anywhere you can walk where dogs are predominately on leads? or open spaces where you can move well away when you see another dog? 

Is she muzzled trained, it may increase your confidence if she's unable to bite? of course it won't stop people with out of control dogs, but it will remove that element of fear from your part.


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

labradrk said:


> Do you have anywhere you can walk where dogs are predominately on leads? or open spaces where you can move well away when you see another dog?
> 
> Is she muzzled trained, it may increase your confidence if she's unable to bite? of course it won't stop people with out of control dogs, but it will remove that element of fear from your part.


Hiya. Not anywhere near me that is strictly 'on the lead' type places.. 
Where I am there are many paths and fields where there are a lot of dogs off lead.. even when your walking on a main road sometimes people have their dogs off (of course they don't run off and are well trained, but I don't like to walk past incase they go near my dog!)
I have recently brought a muzzle for her, but she really hates it and I feel bad for putting one on her.. I suppose she will get used to it in time?? Will have to keep trying and rewarding her for having it on..
Thank you for the reply!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Abisnail said:


> Hiya. Not anywhere near me that is strictly 'on the lead' type places..
> Where I am there are many paths and fields where there are a lot of dogs off lead.. even when your walking on a main road sometimes people have their dogs off (of course they don't run off and are well trained, but I don't like to walk past incase they go near my dog!)
> I have recently brought a muzzle for her, but she really hates it and I feel bad for putting one on her.. I suppose she will get used to it in time?? Will have to keep trying and rewarding her for having it on..
> Thank you for the reply!


She needs to be conditioned to wear it. Have a look at:


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Could you take a stick or brolly out with you and brandish it in a threatening manner while shouting loudly ? That can be a pretty good deterrent I've found.
It must be very hard being pregnant with a strong dog on a lead, I'm sure you feel vulnerable. Maybe get a can of 'Pet Corrector as well as long it wouldn't freak _your _dog out.


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

labradrk said:


> She needs to be conditioned to wear it. Have a look at:


Thank you I will have to try this with my dog!  will put my mind at ease a little more if I can have a muzzle on her


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> Could you take a stick or brolly out with you and brandish it in a threatening while shouting loudly ? That can be a pretty good deterrent I've found.
> It must be very hard being pregnant with a strong dog on a lead, I'm sure you feel vulnerable. Maybe get a can of 'Pet Corrector as well as long it wouldn't freak _your _dog out.


I never thought of this... maybe I could take a brolly out with me 
It is hard somedays as she can be bad on the leash occasionally.. I try and take her out 3 times a day or she gets to hyper and pulls me. Never heard of pet correcter before. What is that??


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

It's like an aerosol can that releases a noisy gut of compressed air. Most pet shops have it. The aim is to startle the dog but of course it can backfire and scare your own dog , last thing you want !


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Company-of...&qid=1488135140&sr=8-1&keywords=pet+corrector


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## HelloWorld (Feb 12, 2017)

I have only just read this it must be very hard for you whilst pregnant. Is there anyone else at home that can accompany you on walks or even do the walking for you for a while? I appreciate this still doesn't solve your dilemma. The dog toy when out on walks may encourage dogs to go even nearer to your dog as they want to play with it too. IMO the aggression is as a result of being attacked when younger. I would try the muzzle as then the collie cannot bite anyone. Continue doing what you are doing with keeping your dog on the leash. It was very insensitive of the lady to ignore your warning and then shout at you when your dog was aggressive. YOU WARNED HER BUT SHE DIDNT TAKE YOUR ADVICE.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Abisnail said:


> I never thought of this... maybe I could take a brolly out with me
> It is hard somedays as she can be bad on the leash occasionally.. I try and take her out 3 times a day or she gets to hyper and pulls me. Never heard of pet correcter before. What is that??


I tend to carry a hiking stick with me if I go anywhere that I might encounter loose dogs. It helps to block approaching dogs and the owners are more likely to call their dogs once they see my stick waving about a bit! 

As for the woman, I would just give her a wide berth.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

I would definitely suggest a muzzle if you can get her used to it. Whilst other people shouldn't let their dogs run up to yours, at least if she has a muzzle on you know that she can't cause them harm. You may also find that people are a little more wary if your dog is wearing a muzzle. Also, I'm not sure where you live, but in the UK a yellow lead is supposed to symbolise that your dog needs to be given space (of course a lot of people won't know this unfortunately). Also, you can buy coats and harnesses which tell people that your dog does not wish to be approached. Here's a picture of my friend's dog wearing one.


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## HelloWorld (Feb 12, 2017)

@Sairy @Abisnail The harness looks like a good idea. Like you said I live in the UK and have never heard of the yellow lead thing.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

HelloWorld said:


> @Sairy @Abisnail The harness looks like a good idea. Like you said I live in the UK and have never heard of the yellow lead thing.


It was something we were told in our dog training class, doing the good citizen dog scheme. The other thing that some people do is tie a yellow bandana to the lead or to the dog itself. I had never heard of it before we joined the class.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Sairy said:


> It was something we were told in our dog training class, doing the good citizen dog scheme. The other thing that some people do is tie a yellow bandana to the lead or to the dog itself. I had never heard of it before we joined the class.


I've seen several dogs at agility shows wearing a yellow vest with 'I NEED SPACE' written on the side. Great idea but in a park I doubt whether the average pet owner would understand why a dog was wearing one and wouldn't be able to read it until they were really close.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Twiggy said:


> I've seen several dogs at agility shows wearing a yellow vest with 'I NEED SPACE' written on the side. Great idea but in a park I doubt whether the average pet owner would understand why a dog was wearing one and wouldn't be able to read it until they were really close.


This is true. I would definately think that a muzzle would be the best way to go. The other things may just help to reinforce the "leave my dog alone" idea.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I am afraid you both learned a hard lesson.

FWIW NEVER believe ANYONE who comes out with "it is all right" "he only wants to play" etc.

It is IRRELEVANT what other owners think, want or believe.

WE have to be advocates for our dogs.

I walk with a Nordic Walking Pole and if dogs (and owners) do not get the message they will get prodded or, if necessary, get whacked with it.

The law is on my side.

You have to stand up for your dogs and do what you think is right for them and put them first.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> I am afraid you both learned a hard lesson.
> 
> FWIW NEVER believe ANYONE who comes out with "it is all right" "he only wants to play" etc.
> 
> ...


You whack the owners as well? :Nailbiting


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> You whack the owners as well? :Nailbiting


Unfortunately not, they are usually far too far away, hence one of the (many) reasons I do not endorse the DINOS scheme or others like them.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

As others have said OP, you've learned an important lesson yourself about trusting your own instincts. I learnt the hard way myself when I was very young & naïve and pressured to let my reactive/DA dog off lead as all the other older walkers at the time convinced me it was me 'over worrying' about her behaviour & that she'd settle once off lead. Wrong!! She ploughed into another small bitch and a fight ensued. It was noisy, the other dog was screaming, it was horrible! I had to wrench Missy off by her back fur! Thankfully no real injuries were sustained apart from a bit of blood from what looked like a cut lip, but lesson well & truly learned. Never believe someone knows your dog better than you! The other owners obviously couldn't shout the odds at me as they'd encouraged me, but they apologized and said they didn't realise she would actually fight 

For future reference others are right, either keep moving and do not let any interactions happen. Muzzle train her and/or walk in areas where there is less chance of meeting random dogs.



Sweety said:


> This particular lady was very foolish, IMO, for allowing her dog to approach yours, after you had warned her your dog may bite.
> 
> However, I don't understand why, when this woman told you it was alright, you stayed and allowed your bitch contact with her dog, when you knew your dog wouldn't like it and could be aggressive? You knew it wasn't alright.
> 
> ...


Can't speak for the OP, but if you're not naturally assertive I find it can be very difficult to be so when people approach you etc. I'm much better than I was but even now my choice of dealing with a similar situation would be to just keep moving as you suggest, rather than actually confronting someone.

Just the other month I struggled to get away from a bloke who allowed his dog to interrupt my training. I wasn't happy with him at all but found it difficult and perhaps OTT to vocalise how annoyed I was so I just grinned and bared it and made my getaway as soon as I could. He was very much 'one of those types' so often described on here and I was inwardly cringing.

In general though with Missy I tend to pick her up if on a narrow path and just keep walking at a brisk pace. If people do seem to look like they're allowing their dog to approach I do politely say she's not good with other dogs. Thankfully most get the hint the first time.


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## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

I knew of a dog walker who was out walking her greyhound when this small dog appeared from nowhere and startled the greyhound.The small dog was off lead and greyhound on lead.The greyhound and small dog had a "set too", the small dog needed to,go,the vets.The owners of the small dog were very unpleasant to the young lady and demanded she pay the vets bill.The young lady did and also went to,the police as was still nervous about the event.The police told her she should never have paid the vets bill as her dog was on a lead and so was under control.The owners of the other dog were the ones at fault for not being in control of,their dog no matter what the outcome.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Just a note, just being on a lead does not necessarily mean that your dog is considered "under control" for some legal purposes.....................


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## Abisnail (Feb 26, 2017)

Thanks for all the replys guys!
I'm defiantly going to try and train her and have a muzzle just incase from now on. In instances of dogs coming up to her, I did sometimes used to pick her up so she couldn't attack the other dog and vice Versa however I have since had a bad back and can't, plus being pregnant I can't pick up my little zoey as she's too heavy!
I have learnt my lesson now, but will still get nervous around other dogs I think especially the 'playful' types as my dog really doesn't like them..
In the case of the other lady I do not feel like I was completely in the wrong and there was fault on both ends.. if I were the lady I would definitely not expect me to pay her vet bills as I had my dog on the lead, however hers was off and was not listening to her...
It's just awkward to see her as we must live very close to one another.. of course I feel bad for her dog, but I also do not believe her dog was in as bad of a state as she said as my dog barely even got her dog..
This was the first and hopefully last time it will ever happen. My dog is obviously just terrified of other dogs (especially big dogs) so I suppose that's how she tries to deal with it..

Thank you guys for your advice and I will start with the muzzle asap. Hopefully she will get used to it..  it will put me at ease as well as if a dog comes I either try and hold her back or pick her up and being pregnant it's very hard to do this now..
Thanks for all the replys though guys. My zoey is a lovely dog really, she's just a little grumpy I think when it comes to playful dogs... I know to be more assertive and wary of other dogs ( and their owners) now x


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

http://suzanneclothier.com/he-just-wants-to-say-hi#.WLNwm9KLTIU


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> http://suzanneclothier.com/he-just-wants-to-say-hi#.WLNwm9KLTIU


A very interesting read Smokeybear. Thanks for sharing.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

To be perfectly honest, in the situation you describe the attack taking place my dog would have had a pop at the dog. He's a sociable guy and loves nothing more than meeting and greeting but a dog constantly barking in his face like that...well it's rude and he really won't tolerate it for long. Highly unlikely he'd have caused any real physical damage but it wouldn't have looked/sounded good. It's situations like that one where you really need to be proactive, to hell with coming across as rude yourself just get your dog out of the situation. Going to be even more important when baby is here because dealing with a scuffle while you've got a child with you is more difficult.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

My dogs are normally OK with others but I don't want them to interact with every dog they come across. I tell other owners that I've got another dog at home with kennel cough, it's very effective in getting them to take their dogs away.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> My dogs are normally OK with others but I don't want them to interact with every dog they come across. I tell other owners that I've got another dog at home with kennel cough, it's very effective in getting them to take their dogs away.


That reminds me of being in a big crowd of people and someone announced that they were going to be sick. Never seen a crowd disperse so quickly :Hilarious


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> http://suzanneclothier.com/he-just-wants-to-say-hi#.WLNwm9KLTIU


Just on that subject, from time to time I have to advocate for my cat. Holly is only trying to be friendly when she approaches him, but she does not appreciate that the cat likes his personal space and doesn't like it when she gets right up in his face. He will wallop her one on the snout (he doesn't tend to pull out the claws though) and if this doesn't make her back off then I will step in and call her away so that he can have space. I always back him up when he is uncomfortable and try to avoid putting him in situations where he has to lash out in the first place, but I have seen people who tell their cats off in this scenario. They say things like "No Tiddles! be nice!" completely unappreciative of the fact that most cats do not approach other cats at full-force and therefore may be uncomfortable with an approach like this from a dog.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Abisnail said:


> Hey guys!
> I have a 7 y/of border collie girl.
> She is an amazingly friendly dog to people and certain animals. As a puppy she has always been around dogs as all my friends have dogs (one having 5!!) And always took her on walks with them.
> However she does not like dogs she hasn't met.. me and my dog got attacked by another dog when she was about 5 months old and I feel that could be the cause of her aggression towards dogs who run up to her??
> ...


Your dog was on a lead the whole time, hers was not. She was at fault her. You say you informed her of your dogs temperament and she ignored that information. You did everything right. In future I would advise training your dog to wear a muzzle.

You had a dog on the lead, so don't worry too much.


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## Lolapop87 (Feb 3, 2017)

My friend had the same problem after her dog was attacked,she would tell people her dog isn't good with other dogs and they would say the same oh it's ok.it really stressed her out as like you always had the dog on the lead and warned people.she purchased a collar,harness and lead off Amazon with no dogs written on them hoping people might get the message then and so far it's seems they have.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I changed my walking time last year and a dog group walk at that time . all friendly dogs and people but they let them run up to mine despite my two dogs (on leads) reaction and my explaining why they are reacting . One woman said my dog is friendly and I thought it would do your dogs good if she come to say hello and a lot of they'll be better off the lead 
in the end I thought sod it and just let mine off lead and let them bark chase the other dogs away so they started calling them back and not letting them approach . its made a huge difference and they are starting to accept individual dogs .


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

The trouble with things like the DINOS and Yellow Dog schemes, or any kind of apparel that says a dog is nervous or whatever is it's only going to work if people are close enough to read it and they actually have some control over their dog. It's been my experience that very few people who allow their dogs to run around off lead have full control over them. Rarely have I come across anybody who can recall their dog and actually stop it from approaching others. And of course, the other problem is people actually have to care that their dog is annoying yours and alas, again it has been my experience that most people think their friendly dog has the right to do whatever it wants and if there is a problem, it's not theirs, it's somebody elses.

My dogs have never drawn blood on another dog, but they have certainly bowled over, air snapped and seen off rude dogs who persist in getting in their faces. Personally, I think they are acting completely within their rights but of course it's not a behaviour I want them to practice so we usually take avoidance tactics where other dogs are concerned. Something I have found useful is making my dogs sit and we all just stay perfectly quiet and motionless. The other dog usually gets quite confused, then becomes bored and eventually moves away. However, one of my dogs finds this quite a difficult thing to do and if the other dog was to touch 2 of mine in that scenario, it wouldnt be a good encounter.

I do like to take a big walking stick with me too. I generally give off antisocial vibes anyway, nothing about my body language says I want to interact, and with a stick in the equation it's surprising how people are more concerned about letting their dog approach. Over the years I have learned to become much more proactive about defending my dogs from unwelcome attention, and stuff if others think i'm rude or ignorant.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I met a woman last year in a local park , both my small dogs were on lead and this woman's big bouncy dog came bounding up , prancing round , homing in for a sniff. Of course I got ' he just wants to say hello' , he's friendly ' etc, totally oblivious to the hostile glares and snarls from my 2. I said 'can you call your dog away please, mine are frightened ?' She had the cheek to reply 'well. you're making them nervous hanging onto their leads for grim death like that'.She half heartedly called her mutt who was taking no notice of her and carried on harassing mine. 
I said loudly to OH 'how rude are they ' ( i'm no good with confrontation!) but who do these people think they are ??!!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> The trouble with things like the DINOS and Yellow Dog schemes, or any kind of apparel that says a dog is nervous or whatever is it's only going to work if people are close enough to read it and they actually have some control over their dog. It's been my experience that very few people who allow their dogs to run around off lead have full control over them. Rarely have I come across anybody who can recall their dog and actually stop it from approaching others. And of course, the other problem is people actually have to care that their dog is annoying yours and alas, again it has been my experience that most people think their friendly dog has the right to do whatever it wants and if there is a problem, it's not theirs, it's somebody elses.


This has very much been my experience too. Peoples attitude is generally that if you don't want your dog/child/self to be bothered by dogs then you shouldn't be in an area where dogs are walked. If I don't want my pram peed up I shouldn't have it out in public. If I don't want my little boy knocked down he shouldn't be in the park. If I don't want my dog approached then I should leave him at home. Had all of those.

My dog is one of those irritating ones who'll run up to others and I'm on high alert when he's off lead to ensure he doesn't make a nuisance of himself. And to be honest, I tend to walk him where it's expected that dogs will approach each other, that way there's less likely to be problems if I slip up although I do still make every effort not to let him just approach others.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> I met a woman last year in a local park , both my small dogs were on lead and this woman's big bouncy dog came bounding up , prancing round , homing in for a sniff. Of course I got ' he just wants to say hello' , he's friendly ' etc, totally oblivious to the hostile glares and snarls from my 2. I said 'can you call your dog away please, mine are frightened ?' She had the cheek to reply 'well. you're making them nervous hanging onto their leads for grim death like that'.She half heartedly called her mutt who was taking no notice of her and carried on harassing mine.
> I said loudly to OH 'how rude are they ' ( i'm no good with confrontation!) but who do these people think they are ??!!


I had something similar some years ago when walking my dogs on a beach. Both were on the lead as one had a habit of ferreting about on the grassy area which was too near a road for my liking and the other was put on the lead when I spotted a lady jogging towards us with two offlead large dogs. One of her dogs went for one of mine and I gave the lady a glare and told her to keep her dogs under control, only for her to say that it was my fault for having my dogs on the lead. My reply wasn't terribly friendly I'm afraid.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Over the years this is just a small selection of "reasons" I have been given for dogs being out of control (for he read she as well)

He is a rescue
He does not like dogs on the lead
He does not like blue hats
everybody knows you cannot train a JRT
My dog was attacked by (insert whatever breed of dog you have at the time)
My dog is allowed to be off lead here
He just loves all dogs
You were carrying food
You should not be playing with toys

the list is endless...................

With a couple of rare exceptions of "I am terribly sorry it was entirely my fault"


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Over the years this is just a small selection of "reasons" I have been given for dogs being out of control (for he read she as well)
> 
> He is a rescue
> He does not like dogs on the lead
> ...


You forgot -

"He was a bait dog".


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Over the years this is just a small selection of "reasons" I have been given for dogs being out of control (for he read she as well)
> 
> He is a rescue
> He does not like dogs on the lead
> ...


It's amazing how many of those I have heard, but then I have lived quite a long time.

When Isla was about 8 months old a spaniel came racing over quite some distance and bit her hind leg. Isla hadn't noticed the dog and leapt vertically in the air, it was quite spectacular. The owner came rushing over and apologised like mad, them spoilt it all by saying that the dog was a rescue.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I've been told more than once that my dogs are reactive because they are on lead - they are on lead for their own protection as they are small breed. They are let off when we consider it safe but Tango has bolted in terror a couple of times ,obviously not something I want to happen.
I was told by a gent that we were walking round the park in the wrong direction , apparently we should have been walking behind him and his 2 GSDs. This was when they appeared suddenly and scared the life out of mine ! He did have the decency to call them back though and I could tell they were friendly. But why can't people see that little dogs are going to be intimidated by bouncy dogs 4x their size ??!! Reena is more confident and will go haring off to see another dog acros the park but comes straight back and gets put back on lead when called. Tango is a bit deaf so stays on lead for safety now.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Siskin said:


> The owner came rushing over and apologised like mad, them *spoilt it all by saying that the dog was a rescue*.


I knew somebody a long time ago who every time his child did anything wrong pointed out he was adopted. I had about as much time for that nasty piece of work as I do for the 'rescue' excuse when owners won't exert proper control.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

havoc said:


> I knew somebody a long time ago who every time his child did anything wrong pointed out he was adopted. I had about as much time for that nasty piece of work as I do for the 'rescue' excuse when owners won't exert proper control.


The trend over the last couple of decades for trying to keep families together has meant that a much higher proportion of kids that end up being adopted do have significant behaviour problems after their experiences with their birth parents, even before you take into account the effects of foetal alcohol syndrome or the mother using drugs during pregnancy. The days of adopted children being the unharmed product of unplanned pregnancies are long gone.


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## sesmo (Mar 6, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> Over the years this is just a small selection of "reasons" I have been given for dogs being out of control (for he read she as well)
> 
> He is a rescue
> He does not like dogs on the lead
> ...


Have you had "he's just a puppy"? Not long after Obie had had his second jabs, we took him to a country park for a little walk. We kept well out of the way of the usual dog routes. At the time he was 14 weeks old and weighed 2kg. He got bounced on by an obnoxious boxer who wouldn't recall. After my OH managed to pick Obie up, the boxer then lept all over him, there was mud on his back and shoulders. That was the dogs owners excuse- her dog was 6 months old and probably weighed 10 times what Obie did.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

sesmo said:


> Have you had "he's just a puppy"?


I have. Usually said in that little hurt voice, same with "he just wanted to say hello". And most of these "puppies" are actually adolescent thugs in reality.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Tango was chased right across the park towards a busy road by a French Bulldog puppy (8months ) She was terrified and he was oblivious to his owner's feeble attempt to recall him. 
Yes 'just a puppy ' ! With an absolute prat of an owner !


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

One excuse that thoroughly pissed me off was when someone refused to call her dogs away because she "walked on that beach every day and if we didn't like it, we could f*ck off elsewhere" after one of her dogs nipped Phoebes back leg, then all 3 of her dogs piled on top of her while Phoebe lay on her back screaming and peeing all over herself. Allowing your dogs to nip, harass and terrify another dog is just fine... just as long as you walk there every day! unch


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

Sarah1983 said:


> I have. Usually said in that little hurt voice, same with "he just wanted to say hello". And most of these "puppies" are actually adolescent thugs in reality.


If i let her Bonnie would be an adolescent ar**hole but that is why she is on a lead if i see other dogs or people.

Coming up to a year and she still doesn't get it that some dogs aren't friendly :Eggonface


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

AlexPed2393 said:


> If i let her Bonnie would be an adolescent ar**hole but that is why she is on a lead if i see other dogs or people.
> 
> Coming up to a year and she still doesn't get it that some dogs aren't friendly :Eggonface


Spens 6 in a few months and still thinks all dogs are his friend. He'll back off if they're clearly not friendly but he'll still approach dogs uninvited. I'm careful where he's off lead because of it.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nettles said:


> One excuse that thoroughly pissed me off was when someone refused to call her dogs away because she "walked on that beach every day and if we didn't like it, we could f*ck off elsewhere" after one of her dogs nipped Phoebes back leg, then all 3 of her dogs piled on top of her while Phoebe lay on her back screaming and peeing all over herself. Allowing your dogs to nip, harass and terrify another dog is just fine... just as long as you walk there every day! unch


I had something similar when a not entirely friendly lurcher was running rings around my sitting dogs, lunging in and barking. I asked the lady to call her dog and was told that it had every right to be on the park. That may be so, but it does not have the right to harass mine and do as it pleases, and I told her as much. She continued with her 'my dog has the right' argument so in the end I just told her to eff off, no point trying to reason with an arsehole like that. Unfortunately, far too many people have this view.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> I had something similar when a not entirely friendly lurcher was running rings around my sitting dogs, lunging in and barking. I asked the lady to call her dog and was told that it had every right to be on the park. That may be so, but it does not have the right to harass mine and do as it pleases, and I told her as much. She continued with her 'my dog has the right' argument so in the end I just told her to eff off, no point trying to reason with an arsehole like that. Unfortunately, far too many people have this view.


It's that sense of entitlement that really makes my blood boil.
Phoebe was only a few months old and that was my first really bad experience. I'm ashamed to say, I let myself down a bucketful by screaming obscenities at her like a fishwife :Bag I just try and bite my tongue now as there really is no reasoning with people like that.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

It's owners like that who are the reason so many more places are becoming more dog unfriendly imo  It's often not just other dogs they bother but joggers, cyclists, horse riders, people out for a walk by themselves, kids playing football, fishermen etc. Or at least it is round here.


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## Fede (Aug 24, 2017)

Hi, I think this is an old post, but I have the same problem!! I can’t walk through the downs coz I’m too scared of off leads. 
My dog on lead has injured seriously another dog off lead after I have asked to recall her dog, the dog didn’t listen and went straight on her face. I have been ordered by warden muzzle and all the mentioned harness and lead. It seemed better on walks but as mentioned often people are so far from their off lead that it freaks me out. 
I have been asked to pay for the excess insurance of 3000£. I’m not sure what to do as at no point the lady has thought that if her dog was on the lead or had a good recall any of this would not have happened. My dog is fine with other polite dogs, she doesn’t like on your face approach. I haven’t enjoyed my walks since so I just walk and walk on roads.... no more beach no more parks or woods for now. 
I would like to open a petition about off lead law. America and Italy the law is your dog is on lead except off lead areas. So we could all walk our dogs peacefully and avoid those areas. My friend doesn’t run anymore on the downs because of dogs off lead running after her. It’s just crazy. We have so many rescues and owners that are so not responsible for their dogs. Mine has a muzzle now but I wouldn’t want to witness anything like that ever again. We are on going training. 
And than again, if we all had our dogs on the lead we wouldn’t need to fear. Just avoid parks where are allowed off. 
Uk law on this is old, where shall I go with this?? What do you think? I know I’m not the only one but so many people think their dog need to be free. Their freedom is more important that my ability to have a relaxed walk. I have the most chilled family loving dog.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Fede said:


> Hi, I think this is an old post, but I have the same problem!! I can't walk through the downs coz I'm too scared of off leads.
> My dog on lead has injured seriously another dog off lead after I have asked to recall her dog, the dog didn't listen and went straight on her face. I have been ordered by warden muzzle and all the mentioned harness and lead. It seemed better on walks but as mentioned often people are so far from their off lead that it freaks me out.
> I have been asked to pay for the excess insurance of 3000£. I'm not sure what to do as at no point the lady has thought that if her dog was on the lead or had a good recall any of this would not have happened. My dog is fine with other polite dogs, she doesn't like on your face approach. I haven't enjoyed my walks since so I just walk and walk on roads.... no more beach no more parks or woods for now.
> I would like to open a petition about off lead law. America and Italy the law is your dog is on lead except off lead areas. So we could all walk our dogs peacefully and avoid those areas. My friend doesn't run anymore on the downs because of dogs off lead running after her. It's just crazy. We have so many rescues and owners that are so not responsible for their dogs. Mine has a muzzle now but I wouldn't want to witness anything like that ever again. We are on going training.
> ...


I am sorry for the experience you have had. Have you tried contacting Trevor Cooper dog law for advice? I am unsure whether or not you would be responsible for the vet bills as the owner of the other dog should have had better control of their dog.

I am sorry, but I do not support your petition to have dogs on lead everywhere except dog parks. I do sympathise with you and completely agree that you should be able to walk your dog without being approached by others, but this is a case of people needing to be more respectful of others and being able to recall their dogs.

Lots of us on here walk our dogs offlead. There are lots of benefits for the dog and it would be a shame to force everyone to keep their dogs on lead because of the actions of a few.

Offlead dog parks are not, in my opinion, a good thing. Lots of dogs chucked into a small area, which would be overwhelming for a lot of dogs. Why can't we all just walk our dogs as we see fit, providing they do not interfere with anyone else?

By the way, did you report the owner of the other dog for having an out of control dog?


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## Fede (Aug 24, 2017)

Thank you for your answer, I totally understand. I have just received the email, so I’m not sure what to do yet. 
The owner seemed to think it’s only my dog’s fault. It was so distressing that I couldn’t reason and just felt sorry, immensely sorry. I just need help to understand where I may stand and if I’m obliged to pay full, partially? As we both take responsibility? 
What’s the best path? Many thanks again.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Fede said:


> Thank you for your answer, I totally understand. I have just received the email, so I'm not sure what to do yet.
> The owner seemed to think it's only my dog's fault. It was so distressing that I couldn't reason and just felt sorry, immensely sorry. I just need help to understand where I may stand and if I'm obliged to pay full, partially? As we both take responsibility?
> What's the best path? Many thanks again.


Right OK. I would definitely contact Trevor Cooper at dog law for advice.

My personal opinion is that the other person is to blame as you should not allow dogs to just run up to strange dogs, particularly if they are on lead. However, by the sounds of it the other dog was the only one injured, which does complicate things a little. You need good, solid advice from someone who knows what they are talking about. I hope you manage to get the help you need.

Here's the link https://www.doglaw.co.uk/

It's a shame that you do not feel able to walk your dog on the beach anymore. If it were my dog then I would make sure he was muzzled at all times in public and just choose quieter times to walk him when there are less dogs about. You might also find it useful to carry a stick to help ward off other dogs.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

If you are in the UK, you are not responsible and not obliged to pay anything as far as i understand it. But i am in Scotland, where laws might be different and im not a lawyer.

I did say this before on pet forums and was told i was wrong so do check out the legal situation if you are in England or elsewhere.

In Scotland, the owner of the _off lead_ dog is always deemed to be in the wrong. As you had your dog on lead, your dog was under control and the off lead dog that approached and was attacked was out of control. Therefore you were not at fault.

Do check this with Trevor Cooper (and let me know please) Laws can be very different in Scotland and England.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I too don’t see why you should pay the vet bill as your dog was on the lead and the loose dog ran up to it.

The other dog’s owner is responsible imo. Definitely speak to Trevor Cooper.

Did the Dog Warden tell the other owner to control her dog?

I keep my own dog on leash in public and often have problems with him being approached by loose dogs whose owners cannot or will not call them away, so I understand the problem you have. 

I have found a long hiking pole useful to keep approaching dogs at bay and it encourages owners to recall if it’s being waved in their dog’s direction. I’m very firm with other owners to control their dogs too. I just find it easier to avoid encounters as much as possible.

I don’t like the idea of all dogs on lead in public everywhere but there should be more areas where leads are mandatory. 

The sports field behind us is a case in point where dogs are a particular nuisance to other users. Loose dogs even running onto pitches and harassing players, often children, for example. Not to mention the dog mess everywhere. However, even in other places with designated on lead areas, many owners ignore the rules so enforcing them is tricky.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

tabelmabel said:


> If you are in the UK, you are not responsible and not obliged to pay anything as far as i understand it. But i am in Scotland, where laws might be different and im not a lawyer.
> 
> I did say this before on pet forums and was told i was wrong so do check out the legal situation if you are in England or elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Interestingly my Aunt, who used to live in Scotland, was advised the same as you.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I had something similar when I walked my Bloodhound on lead. He was a gentle and well-mannered dog but big and boisterous (well able to knock someone over) so I kept him on the lead on the towpath which was narrow and often had mothers with prams and toddlers and the like. A neighbour with a GR would inevitably and deliberately let her dog off lead as soon as she saw us, knowing full well that her dog would charge at us, growling and threatening. One day it went too far and attacked mine, still on his lead which left me in the middle of two dogs, one bigger than I, trying to kill each other so I had to let go. Her dog ended up with a bitten ear, nothing major; but she had the audacity to advise me in a patronising voice that ''if I had the sense to let mine off the lead, her dog would not attack him''. I told her that was nice to know.
Agree with @Sairy, this really wasn't your fault, and I hope you get some professional advice.
You say the ''excess insurance'' is £3000 which sounds a staggering amount; so however much was the total bill?


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> The other dog's owner is responsible imo.


It does make far more sense that the law would have the on lead dog deemed to be 'under control' and the off lead one 'out of control'

I have found this link to English law (i think!) It doesnt illustrate the situation above but it does say a dog is deemed to be under control if it is on lead and the lead is held by someone strong enough to restrain the dog (not a child)

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/controlling-your-dog-public


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Sairy said:


> Interestingly my Aunt, who used to live in Scotland, was advised the same as you.


Yes, I was told that (we all were) in a good citizens dog training class so i believe it to be the case in Scotland. I just remember, when i mentioned it before on pf, jgw told me i was wrong and everyone agreed with him that i was wrong. And, with it being jgw, i have doubted myself ever since:Hilarious


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The other owner is trying it on imo.

I would ignore her email for now or at least just state that my dog was under control, hers was not so liability lies with her.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> The other owner is trying it on imo.
> 
> I would ignore her email for now or at least just state that my dog was under control, hers was not so liability lies with her.


And I'd preface it with 'having taken legal advice on this matter.......'


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as the on leash dog made contact and injured the off leash dog then in the eyes of the law the on leash dog was not under control.

I would absolutely contact Trever Cooper to find out where you stand in this situation, especially as you are being asked to pay up...are they really asking for £3000 or was that a typo?


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as the on leash dog made contact and injured the off leash dog then in the eyes of the law the on leash dog was not under control.
> 
> I would absolutely contact Trever Cooper to find out where you stand in this situation, especially as you are being asked to pay up...are they really asking for £3000 or was that a typo?


I was going to say the same. If your on lead dog seriously injured another dog then it's out of control. A muzzle is 100% needed to ensure this doesn't happen again.
I can't however see how £3000 is correct. £300 maybe if the dog needed an anaesthetic and stitches etc, but not more than that.
Definitely get advice from DogLaw, and avoid all contact with the other owner until you've taken legal advice.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as the on leash dog made contact and injured the off leash dog then in the eyes of the law the on leash dog was not under control.
> 
> I would absolutely contact Trever Cooper to find out where you stand in this situation, especially as you are being asked to pay up...are they really asking for £3000 or was that a typo?


I can see that if the other dog walked by minding its own business and got set on by an on lead dog. Not if the off lead dog approached and started a fight though.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Maybe this is a difference in Scottish and English law. I can see how, if you had a dog 10m out on a flexi that lunges and attacks an off leash dog, then it could be the flexi lead owner's fault.

But if you have your dog tight by your side on a fixed lead and another dog comes right in, I think in Scotland the dog that runs in is always to blame.


Maybe it is a grey area though. Interesting.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as the on leash dog made contact and injured the off leash dog then in the eyes of the law the on leash dog was not under control.
> 
> I would absolutely contact Trever Cooper to find out where you stand in this situation, especially as you are being asked to pay up...are they really asking for £3000 or was that a typo?


This depends ..... I had an incident years ago when I was walking Roxy & an off lead (small) dog on a boat leapt off & attacked her (she was on a lead). She could have seriously injured the dog but didn't, instead she pinned it down but in doing so broke the skin & caused a certain amount of bleeding. I had loads of abuse from the dogs owners. I contacted Trevor Cooper who gave me some great advice & also the police who were amazing. They actually went to see the people on the boat who were told they would be issued with a notice (I can't remember which sort) if they let this happen again.

From my understanding is that there are so many grey areas & it isn't as clear as on/off lead. Dog Law is definitely worth contacting in any incident that causes concern


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'd be very interested to hear the outcome of this because it seems to me that if my dog is leashed and another dog approaches, attacks, and ends up injured, surely it's the off-leash dog who approached who's at fault? 

But then I'm looking at it from the perspective of my own dogs. If a dog just approaches, they're fine, but if the approaching dog has other intentions, mine won't just stand there and take it. Which is why I've gotten so good over the years at shooing dogs away. Owners may not like how I shoo their dogs away but they really won't like how Bates deals with rude dogs. He's not trying to seriously injure, but he's not going to leave room for doubt either. 
And I agree, £3000 sounds crazy for a dog bite.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I'd be very interested to hear the outcome of this because it seems to me that if my dog is leashed and another dog approaches, attacks, and ends up injured, surely it's the off-leash dog who approached who's at fault?
> 
> But then I'm looking at it from the perspective of my own dogs. If a dog just approaches, they're fine, but if the approaching dog has other intentions, mine won't just stand there and take it. Which is why I've gotten so good over the years at shooing dogs away. Owners may not like how I shoo their dogs away but they really won't like how Bates deals with rude dogs. He's not trying to seriously injure, but he's not going to leave room for doubt either.
> And I agree, £3000 sounds crazy for a dog bite.


And £3,000 is just the insurance excess apparently. I would like to know the extent of the injuries to the other dog.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> *From my understanding is that there are so many grey areas & it isn't as clear as on/off lead.* Dog Law is definitely worth contacting in any incident that causes concern


The bit in bold is what I should have said tbh
From what I'm taking from the way the OP worded their post is that the off leash dog was over exuberant (inappropriate jumping at the face that some dogs do) and the leashed dog corrected said dog but injured them in the process...in that case the on leashed dog is out of control, however, if the off leashed dog did attack (and not just jump at) then there is fault on both sides.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> I'd be very interested to hear the outcome of this because it seems to me that if my dog is leashed and another dog approaches, attacks, and ends up injured, surely it's the off-leash dog who approached who's at fault?
> .


You would think wouldn't you but we have some crazy laws ....

I suppose if I had gone to a busy dog park with Roxy (when she was at her worst) & an offlead dog came running over to her then she would have bitten it, possibly badly. In that instance I would have been at fault (IMO) as I would have known there would be lots of dogs around & offlead & that mine would have could possibly hurt one of those dogs.

That's why I never went to places like that with her


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> The bit in bold is what I should have said tbh
> From what I'm taking from the way the OP worded their post is that the off leash dog was over exuberant (inappropriate jumping at the face that some dogs do) and the leashed dog corrected said dog but injured them in the process...in that case the on leashed dog is out of control, however, if the off leashed dog did attack (and not just jump at) then there is fault on both sides.


Very grey area. 
I'm okay with my dog correcting a rude dog, but a correction should not injure, or if for some unlucky reason it does, the injury should be minor, scrape or something. A full puncture wound isn't warranted on the first correction. If the dog doesn't listen and/or escalates, then yes, I can see a minor injury. But hell, Bates corrects Penny daily. If he were injuring her every time we'd be in some serious trouble! Dogs are very capable of controlling their bite pressure.

The times Bates has gotten himself in trouble is when he corrects the other dog, and instead of gracefully taking the correction, the other dog takes offense and comes back at him. Then it's on. That happened before he came to me, and twice in my care. Like I said, I've gotten very good at intervening before the need to correct, or if there is a correction, I make sure only one happens because the second one won't be as nice.



Sairy said:


> And £3,000 is just the insurance excess apparently. I would like to know the extent of the injuries to the other dog.


Seriously! 
I'm okay with a puncture wound if the other dog is being a real ass, but a massive mauling over an unwelcome approach seems very OTT to me and yes, I would class that as a dangerous dog. As I said above, dogs are very capable of controlling their bite pressure and if they don't I consider that a big problem.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> The bit in bold is what I should have said tbh
> From what I'm taking from the way the OP worded their post is that the off leash dog was over exuberant (inappropriate jumping at the face that some dogs do) and the leashed dog corrected said dog but injured them in the process...in that case the on leashed dog is out of control, however, if the off leashed dog did attack (and not just jump at) then there is fault on both sides.


But if a dog is annoying an on lead dog and the on lead dog attacks how is that out of control, how can you stop your dog if the other dog is in its face and will not move away. Very difficult one.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

I've a feeling that Stormy is right here - this will be why there isn't anything clear to turn to online. Thinking about it further, I suspect that the 'grey areas' hinge on things like:

- has the owner of the leashed dog previously received an order to keep it muzzled in public places. And, if so, has this been breeched?

- is the dog legally owned (not a banned breed)

-is the owner allowed to keep dogs (or have they been banned/restricted)


I still think, though, that if the dog is legally owned and not subject to any order from the court, then as long as it doesnt rip the off lead dog to pieces savagely, the fault lies with the owner of the off lead dog.


Of course, if the on lead dog goes at the off lead one very agressively, then it could be argued that it is not safe to be walked in a public place without a muzzle.


With most dogs, I should think the courts would find in favour of the on lead dog owner.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> But if a dog is annoying an on lead dog and the on lead dog attacks how is that out of control, how can you stop your dog if the other dog is in its face and will not move away. Very difficult one.


Correcting another dog for space invading is one thing but if the leashed dog attacks and causes injury then the dog is no longer under control.
I have a dog that hates dogs getting in his face and would not think twice about giving corrections, if a dog didn't respond appropriately to those corrections then the game would be on...I know this so don't allow other dogs to get in his face and if he had ever been put in a situation that resulted in him injuring another dog then I would have held my hands up and accepted responsibility for half the vet fees.

While it is annoying (and very frustrating) to have off leash dogs bundling over, over exuberant dogs don't deserve to be seriously injured because their owners can't teach a solid recall or leash their dogs.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes, you are right @StormyThai  This is it, exactly and very well explained too, thank you.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

tabelmabel said:


> With most dogs, I should think the courts would find in favour of the on lead dog owner.


Unless you have a bull breed, or another breed that has the 'dangerous' label attached to it like a rottie.

When my previous dog was seriously attacked, the first thing the police did was try to place the blame on my dog simply because he was a SBT and the other dog was a lab. Thankfully i had an independent witness.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Not good of the police, @Nonnie. Hopefully, a court would have been more thorough in going through the evidence! Thank goodness you had a witness!


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## Fede (Aug 24, 2017)

Thank you so much for your help, opinions and thoughts. The operations came up
To 7000£ and it’s not a typo unfortunately!! The dog was 4 times smaller than mine and old, 9. My dog is muzzled now, I only had her for 2 months (6 years old) , she has met dogs on the lead and been fine. She growled at few off lead but they left us once realised she was not up for it and understood her language. This time the dog went straight on her face ignoring owner and my shouting, I didn’t stand a chance then. Will contact Cooper as few of you mentioned. I have learned a lot in the last month or so. 
Thank you so much for your help. I really need it!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Fede said:


> Thank you so much for your help, opinions and thoughts. The operations came up
> To 7000£ and it's not a typo unfortunately!! The dog was 4 times smaller than mine and old, 9. My dog is muzzled now, I only had her for 2 months (6 years old) , she has met dogs on the lead and been fine. She growled at few off lead but they left us once realised she was not up for it and understood her language. This time the dog went straight on her face ignoring owner and my shouting, I didn't stand a chance then. Will contact Cooper as few of you mentioned. I have learned a lot in the last month or so.
> Thank you so much for your help. I really need it!


Can you share what the injuries were? I'm still struggling to understand what kind of damage you're talking about. 
My 90 pound dog regularly "corrects" my 9 pound dog and does no damage. Granted, his corrections are mostly half-hearted, but even if he were being more serious, he can correct a much smaller dog without doing damage.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

It sounds mad to me. I met someone on a walk today who very obviously did not want her dog to meet others. I felt so sorry for the dog, body blocked and pulled around, it was a very narrow path and reasonably busy so what the heck was she doing there with an aggressive dog. My dogs were on the lead as I had only just got on the path so I kept them on till we were past her. She was very rude to me when I greeted her and I think any dog would get dog aggressive it was treated like that every time a dog came in view. BUT if I had let my dogs off the lead and met her a little further on and one of them had gone up to the dog and been bitten surely it would have been my fault. Incidentally the other dogs I met on the path were all off lead and interacting with each other so she must have been quite mad to take her dog there.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Correcting another dog for space invading is one thing but if the leashed dog attacks and causes injury then the dog is no longer under control.
> I have a dog that hates dogs getting in his face and would not think twice about giving corrections, if a dog didn't respond appropriately to those corrections then the game would be on...I know this so don't allow other dogs to get in his face and if he had ever been put in a situation that resulted in him injuring another dog then I would have held my hands up and accepted responsibility for half the vet fees.
> 
> While it is annoying (and very frustrating) to have off leash dogs bundling over, over exuberant dogs don't deserve to be seriously injured because their owners can't teach a solid recall or leash their dogs.


That is very true but you cannot expect the average dog owner to be able to repel a dog that is approaching when they are trying to control their own dog. Toffee approached a dog that was on lead. Limited space to keep out of their way but when the dog retaliated and the owner was mortified I said it was my dog's fault for approaching (or mine for not stopping her of course) then again a dog that is capable of doing £7000 damage to another dog should most definitely not be anywhere in the vicinity of other dogs.


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