# Man dies from Pit Bull Type attack



## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Had a quick look in case this has been posted already, but could not find it.

&#039;Pitbull&#039; Dog Attack: 83-Year-Old Dies Following Attack, Man Arrested On Suspicion Of Manslaughter | UK News | Sky News

Poor man (and dog no doubt) losing his life all because of poor owners.


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## rottie (Jan 1, 2012)

I think the hospital has a small responsibility too:

"He was taken to hospital and *released later that day*, but his son found him dead in his home on January 29.
...
Officers decided to treat the matter as manslaughter after a post-mortem revealed Mr Trotman died from a *haemorrhage caused by a ruptured spleen*."

it's a shame this things happen. poor man


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I am not a medical person but I cannot see the connection between a bite on the leg and a ruptured spleen. Seems to me that if that was the cause of death, the hospital should have picked up on that before sending him home.

I am not condoning what happened, just think the police are overreacting as usual. Poor old man though, and poor dogs.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I would be putting in a negligence claim to the hospital to be fair.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I am not a medical person but I cannot see the connection between a bite on the leg and a ruptured spleen. Seems to me that if that was the cause of death, the hospital should have picked up on that before sending him home.
> 
> I am not condoning what happened, just think the police are overreacting as usual. Poor old man though, and poor dogs.


Of course the hospital should have picked up the ruptured spleen, but it probably happened when the dog knocked him over. If a dog attacked someone on a path at the top of a cliff and they fell off as a result, the cause of death would be as a result of the fall but the dog/owner would still have caused it. I don't see the police overreacting. The dog owner's negligence caused someone's death. Any dog that goes up to someone and attacks them is better off pts in my view, and the owner prosecuted.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

2 other stories about dog attacks in the papers today 
TV anchor Kyle Dyer bit in face by rescued dog | Mail Online
The dogs ears were back, he was licking his lips, and then finally turned his head away from her what more warnings did she need that he was uncomfortable with the situation
Mother savaged to death by her pet Alsatian found covered in blood with the dog 'chewing her face' | Mail Online


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.

Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Nataliee said:


> 2 other stories about dog attacks in the papers today
> TV anchor Kyle Dyer bit in face by rescued dog | Mail Online
> The dogs ears were back, he was licking his lips, and then finally turned his head away from her what more warnings did she need that he was uncomfortable with the situation
> Mother savaged to death by her pet Alsatian found covered in blood with the dog 'chewing her face' | Mail Online


DONT STICK YOUR FACE IN A DOGS FACE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW IT/IT HAS UNKNOWN HISTORY

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :nono::nono::nono:


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


An elderly chap has fallen- I imagine a ruptured spleen causes quite alot of pain why WOULDNT the hospital X-ray him?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> DONT STICK YOUR FACE IN A DOGS FACE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW IT/IT HAS UNKNOWN HISTORY
> 
> GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :nono::nono::nono:


Common sense isn't it!!!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> An elderly chap has fallen- I imagine a ruptured spleen causes quite alot of pain why WOULDNT the hospital X-ray him?


I imagine he would have had a very obvious injury and was in shock. I would not have thought a ruptured spleen necessarily would cause pain and it would depend where it was ruptured probably as well.
Presumably he was taken in as a dog bit victim. If you went to A and E after falling over and maybe cutting your leg, or even breaking your leg would you really expect to get a full body xray and scan 

the bloody dog killed him - dont blame the hospital.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

A ruptured spleen is painful no matter how small or where the damage is.

Not blaming the hospital, just pointing out the above.


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## rottie (Jan 1, 2012)

Blitz said:


> the bloody dog killed him - dont blame the hospital.


but the hospital is to blame:

"A ruptured spleen is the most common serious complication of an abdominal injury and may occur as a consequence of road traffic accidents, sports injuries and *violent, physical attacks*."
and
"The abdomen usually feels tender and painful when the spleen ruptures. Blood leaks into the abdomen, causing irritation with subsequent tenderness and pain."
BBC - health

so, the hospital discharged a man with internal bleeding and a few very obvious symptoms. the dog attacked and bit the man...but the hospital didn't save him by ignoring important symptoms.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I imagine he would have had a very obvious injury and was in shock. I would not have thought a ruptured spleen necessarily would cause pain and it would depend where it was ruptured probably as well.
> Presumably he was taken in as a dog bit victim. If you went to A and E after falling over and maybe cutting your leg, or even breaking your leg would you really expect to get a full body xray and scan
> 
> the bloody dog killed him - dont blame the hospital.


YES if i was elderly and had had a fall (old bones break easily) and especially if complaining of pain elsewhere, of course a ruptured spleen would be painful.

I did not give an opinion on the dog, I would still be putting in a complaint for negligence to the hospital.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Nataliee said:


> 2 other stories about dog attacks in the papers today
> TV anchor Kyle Dyer bit in face by rescued dog | Mail Online
> The dogs ears were back, he was licking his lips, and then finally turned his head away from her what more warnings did she need that he was uncomfortable with the situation
> Mother savaged to death by her pet Alsatian found covered in blood with the dog 'chewing her face' | Mail Online


The TV one reminds me of this older one, pretty much identical causes Untamed and Uncut: Attack Dog Bites Reporter - YouTube


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


Dogs are amoral animals with little in the way of reason so i'm not sure they can be blamed for acting in accordance with how they were bred and brought up, I think people are justified in seeing them as victims too. Often these things are a result of bad ownership and the blame should lie with the owner of the dogs and also with the government/law enforcers for not doing enough to prevent poorly bred, poorly owned dogs from getting onto the streets. Sometimes these things are just accidents and we have to accept that if we choose to own animals,then those animals may bite us, no matter what we do (though I don't think that was the case with this attack, sounds more like bad ownership).

I think everyone can agree that it certainly wasn't the fault of the man that has died and thoughts should go out to his familly and friends.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> The TV one reminds me of this older one, pretty much identical causes Untamed and Uncut: Attack Dog Bites Reporter - YouTube


Again though the fault of the handlers for not stepping in and saying "please give the dog some blumming space"


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Nataliee said:


> 2 other stories about dog attacks in the papers today
> TV anchor Kyle Dyer bit in face by rescued dog | Mail Online
> The dogs ears were back, he was licking his lips, and then finally turned his head away from her what more warnings did she need that he was uncomfortable with the situation


Not everyone likes dogs or can read their body language. If the dog was not trustworthy it should not have been placed in that position without warning the interviewer not to get in its face. Just an observation - it was a breed of dog that is banned in the UK.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Jugsmalone said:


> Common sense isn't it!!!


Not to non dog lovers who have the right to exist without being mauled by a dog.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Not to non dog lovers who have the right to exist without being mauled by a dog.


Well you wouldn't go up to another person you don't know and put your face in their face. It's no different!


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Jugsmalone said:


> Well you wouldnt got up to another person you dont know and put your face in their face. It's no different!


I wouldn't go up to someone and sniff their arse either because dogs and humans are not the same and the way we treat them and other people is not the same. Also I do not put my child's dinner plate on the kitchen floor or put him to sleep in the kitchen because he is not a dog


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> I wouldn't go up to someone and sniff their arse either because dogs and humans are not the same and the way we treat them and other people is not the same. Also I do not put my child's dinner plate on the kitchen floor or put him to sleep in the kitchen because he is not a dog


Where in my post did I say dog and humans are the same? *I DIDN'T*. You are just making assumptions.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

cbrookman said:


> Not everyone likes dogs or can read their body language. If the dog was not trustworthy it should not have been placed in that position without warning the interviewer not to get in its face. Just an observation - it was a breed of dog that is banned in the UK.


To be fair looking at the clip I dont think it is obvious that the dog is uncomfortable. Maybe with hindsight or prior knowledge of the breed/type but to the average person the dog looks ok. It doesnt look like it tried to attack her either, just told her to go away (which would of been fine if it was a Yorkie, but much more damaging with a big breed).
Poor old man though.....unfortunatlely something like a ruptured spleen could easily be missed if the person had generalized bruising from falling and it was a slow leak rather then a massive rupture. Older people are very fragile, certainly too fragile to take some morons dog attacking them!! Im sorry to say I think the dogs there should be PTS as they were illegal.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Not to non dog lovers who have the right to exist without being mauled by a dog.


ENTIRELY. So dont touch it period.

Like I said handlers fault for not asking for space for their dogs.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Not everyone likes dogs or can read their body language. If the dog was not trustworthy it should not have been placed in that position without warning the interviewer not to get in its face. Just an observation - it was a breed of dog that is banned in the UK.


What breed of dog do you think it was? With the female interviewer I mean?


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> What breed of dog do you think it was? With the female interviewer I mean?


A dogo argentino


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

How awful poor man. I would comment that just because he was 83 does not necessarily mean he was frail, my dad is 81 and still strong as an ox, but if some random dog attacked him unexpectedly then would probably knock him over (would knock me over too). How terrible for his family they must be devastated


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Not everyone likes dogs or can read their body language. If the dog was not trustworthy it should not have been placed in that position without warning the interviewer not to get in its face. Just an observation - it was a breed of dog that is banned in the UK.


Thats true, but still you would think most people would know better than to shove their face up to a dog, regardless of what they did or didn't know about dogs


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Can I point out that a ruptured spleen can be caused by infection so would not be seen during the A&E visit and could well be due to the dog bite he suffered.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


I'm sorry but I disagree. The dog is *physically *responsible yes, but its not the dogs fault. The dog did what he thought was o.k/right to do.

I am no way blaming the police, the old man *OR* am I saying "oh its okay then, the dog didnt mean it" but with stories like this, its always the innocents that suffer because some stupid pr**k cant/wont control his dogs. They wont ensure they are secured in the garden etc etc.

_I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone._

That isn't the dogs fault, again. Dogs as we both know aren't "born bad" (unless it has some medical illness for aggression etc). Its the humans that will illegally breed these dogs, make them become aggressive, non acceptable, members of society. A lot of these dogs may have only known beatings and aggression, so when these stupid scum bags, let them loose onto innocent people, such as this gentleman, they are the ones who pay the price, along with the dog.

This is no-ones fault except the...I cant even think of the words for him, scum bag, who "owned" (and I use that term loosely) the dog.

_no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.
_
I agree, no wonder people are getting scared of dogs, when you get idiots like that ruining dogs, letting them run riot and attack innocent people. It tars all dogs and dog owners alike.

That poor elderly gent


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Pupcakes said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree. The dog is *physically *responsible yes, but its not the dogs fault. The dog did what he thought was o.k/right to do.
> 
> I am no way blaming the police, the old man *OR* am I saying "oh its okay then, the dog didnt mean it" but with stories like this, its always the innocents that suffer because some stupid pr**k cant/wont control his dogs. They wont ensure they are secured in the garden etc etc.
> 
> ...


Depends what you mean by "Bad". If you accept that "bad" could mean aggressive, reactive, with a low trigger threshold, nothing obvious in the way of warnings, and lack of self control, then I would say that some of them are born that way. For a dog bred for fighting, these traits would be a positive bonus, and the selection for breeding in fighting dogs would tend to promulgate such animals.

I think some people are born bad too. Psychpaths that just view other people as objects, for instance. Why should dogs be immune from the same things that can go wrong in mind/brain development? I see far too much 'innocent babies' on this forum, it's sentimentality at its worst.


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

rottie said:


> but the hospital is to blame:
> 
> "A ruptured spleen is the most common serious complication of an abdominal injury and may occur as a consequence of road traffic accidents, sports injuries and *violent, physical attacks*."
> and
> ...


What symptoms? Do you have access to his medical records? Sorry I'm lost 

I think what the hospital did to didn't do is a red herring here. The poor man was attacked in his own garden by a dog owned by someone who had three illegal dogs (from the news reports). Medical negligence can't be ascertained by anyone of us here. It's not as simple as something was missed/went wrong and so the hospital is to blame. It's a sensitive subject for me as it took 9 years for my nephew's claim to be resolved, it's not a black and white subject.

It must have been a very slow bleed, I would assume, as the police spoke to him the following day. People don't always turn up with textbook pain or symptoms. I sat on a trolley on A&E with my femur snapped in two for 6 hours before being seen by a doctor, I had very little pain, I just couldn't move my leg. When the surgeon came to see me he walked out the cubicle because he thought I was the wrong patient as I was lying there playing a game on my iPhone. In no way do I blame the hospital for not realising I had such a serious injury, I didn't fit what you would expect to see.

It's a very sad case and I really feel for the man's family.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

See this article for a photo of the fence (though would not call it a fence) between the dog owners property and the victims property.

Pensioner died after being attacked by neighbour¿s ¿devil dog¿ after row over broken fence | Mail Online


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

it sure is a shame , what i can`t work out for the life of me though , is if people were so concerned about the dogs why didn`t they just go ahead and put a fence up anyway , even if it wasn`t this mans responsibility could`ve saved a whole load of heartache


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Nataliee said:


> Thats true, but still you would think most people would know better than to shove their face up to a dog, regardless of what they did or didn't know about dogs


Most people might, but obviously she did not and the owner let it happen. It is not the victim's fault 



diablo said:


> it sure is a shame , what i can`t work out for the life of me though , is if people were so concerned about the dogs why didn`t they just go ahead and put a fence up anyway , even if it wasn`t this mans responsibility could`ve saved a whole load of heartache


Maybe he could not afford to and why the hell should he anyway. What is with blaming everybody else.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I see that all puppies are going to have to be microchipped. What use is that going to be - only the owners that microchip anyway will be bothering. I would have thought it was easier to check a collar for an id tag than a chip in a dog - so how about policing the existing law on identification instead of bringing in a new one that cant possibly be enforced.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Maybe he could not afford to and *why the hell should he anyway*. What is with blaming everybody else.


essentially it could have saved his life *if* he were so terrified of those dogs.


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## rottie (Jan 1, 2012)

Polimba - do you know he had no symptoms? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But if we search some statistics I think it's more likely to die from negligence in the hospital and less killed by a dog.

If I'm right this case it's sadder, because that man had a chance of living.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

diablo said:


> essentially it could have saved his life *if* he were so terrified of those dogs.


I take it you are of the opinion that if someone gets burgled it is their fault for not having their house more secure. If someone is attacked at night it is their fault for being out. If a young girl is wearing a mini skirt and a lot of make up it is her fault if she is sexually assaulted.

For heavens sake, I just cant believe I am hearing this. It is his fault he died because he didnt repair someone elses fence - get real


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Just a thought, has it been confirmed that the dogs were pitbulls?? Or is it another guess on breed??


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm sick of it myself!! There's story after story about pit bulls killing people and other animals but it's the owners fault? If they don't deserve to be on the dda then they must be the most misunderstood breed in the world!! People need to accept that if they're buying a pit bull, rottie, alasation etc they're potentially buying a dangerous dog that could kill someone! Sorry but there's too much evidence that these dogs can be dangerous whether or not people try to defend them by blaming the owners!!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm sick of it myself!! There's story after story about pit bulls killing people and other animals but it's the owners fault? If they don't deserve to be on the dda then they must be the most misunderstood breed in the world!! People need to accept that if they're buying a pit bull, rottie, alasation etc they're potentially buying a dangerous dog that could kill someone! Sorry but there's too much evidence that these dogs can be dangerous whether or not people try to defend them by blaming the owners!!


Lets ban all dogs bigger than a Chi then shall we? jeez........ :


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Heard on the news this morning that the Government is considering compulsary microchipping of pet dogs in light of this incident.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm sick of it myself!! There's story after story about pit bulls killing people and other animals but it's the owners fault? If they don't deserve to be on the dda then they must be the most misunderstood breed in the world!! *People need to accept that if they're buying a pit bull, rottie, alasation etc they're potentially buying a dangerous dog that could kill someone*! Sorry but there's too much evidence that these dogs can be dangerous whether or not people try to defend them by blaming the owners!!


Fed up of saying this now, but the same applies to the other breeds which have killed humans...................lets just say you love one killer breed.

Did you consider the huge amount of accidents/bites and the deaths caused by Yorkies before buying one??????? Doubt it cos it's only a small little thing etc.

Ignore what you read in the papers (which only report on "devil dogs") and look at the stats you will be surprised how high Yorkies, JRT's and labs are to name just 3, they are far higher than the bull breeds, rotties, Akitas, GSD's etc.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> There's so many dangerous dogs and yet people keep buying even though there's thousands of real evidence of the fact they can kill! Not every killer has bad owners!! Wake up! If you are willing to buy one of these dogs fine but you have to accept it could kill! Not accepting that can be deadly!


Some of the nastiest dogs I've ever met have been yorkies in fact I'd not met a nice one until DD the year before last you don't see me calling for them to be banned last that's partially due to breeding and due to the owners letting them get away with it because they're tiny. Any dog can kill any dog can do serious damage all dogs should be raised properly and trained and socialised. A lot of these attacks are in unusual circumstances or dogs with idiot owners who need the dead ard penis extension


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Also a thought why weren't these dogs reported before this happened?? If they were infact pitbulls and people were so terrified of them why didnt his son or his neighbours report the dogs?? I will answer my own question, the dogs have not been confirmed as pitbulls.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

someone i know got bitten by on wednesday by a dog - she's not sure what breed, thinks it was a terrier x. in this senario, it really wasn't the dogs fault.

FYI - i manage the booking of full time, live in carers for the elderly and/or disabled, so they don't have to go to care homes. i have many clients, and here's one story:

picture the scene....

a carer turns up to a farmhouse to provide full time live in care for an elderly lady. the ladys' son lives in a building next door and runs the farm. the grounds are communal. he has 3 dogs, all the same breed.

the carer was standing in the back garden, when one of the dogs came running round the corner and went straight for her leg. so she went to hospital, got it dressed, and a tetanus and a course of anti b's to be safe.

she was on the phone today moaning about the dog - i asked if that was the first time the dog had seen her (it was) i told her the dog was protecting himself and the grounds from the stranger then. i said she should've been introduced properly to the dogs in the beginning....she wasn't convinced.

to keep everyone informed, i called the son and he was aware of what had happened. i said that in future he needs to introduce the dogs to the carers to stop this happeneing again hopefully. he said they're just yappy, not aggressive! - his whole attitude was 'couldn't care less' 

i was more angry with the hooman than i was the dog!!


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

rottie said:


> Polimba - do you know he had no symptoms? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But if we search some statistics I think it's more likely to die from negligence in the hospital and less killed by a dog.
> 
> If I'm right this case it's sadder, because that man had a chance of living.


No of course I don't know what symptoms he had, that's my point. You said he was discharged with obvious symptoms, I wondered how you knew that.

Sorry I don't understand the point about statistics.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Think the stats point is meant as in the following true facts:

More people die due to hospitals than do by dogs.
Same with coconuts, more people have been killed by falling coconuts than have been by a dog.

I say ban coconuts and hospitals


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Think the stats point is meant as in the following true facts:
> 
> More people die due to hospitals than do by dogs.
> *Same with coconuts, more people have been killed by falling coconuts than have been by a dog.
> ...


LMAO :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::tongue_smilie:


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Think the stats point is meant as in the following true facts:
> 
> More people die due to hospitals than do by dogs.
> Same with coconuts, more people have been killed by falling coconuts than have been by a dog.
> ...


:thumbup1::thumbup1:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

BRILLIANT!!!!!!


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

DoggieBag said:


> Think the stats point is meant as in the following true facts:
> 
> More people die due to hospitals than do by dogs.
> Same with coconuts, more people have been killed by falling coconuts than have been by a dog.
> ...


Yeah I get that and yes it's true, but I'm not following the relevance.

He was unfortunate enough to have been attacked by a dog and admitted to hospital, statistically you're more likely to die from medical negligence than a dog attack, so we conclude it was the hospital that killed him?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

tashax said:


> Thats because there is a difference between a dog lover and a breed lover, *i love all dogs wether they be Chis or great danes, staffys or Labradors! Alot of people claim to be dog lovers and are infact breed lovers where their breed can do no wrong*


Couldn't agree more. I love all dogs too, regardless of breed.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)




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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

tashax said:


> Thats because there is a difference between a dog lover and a breed lover, i love all dogs wether they be Chis or great danes, staffys or Labradors! Alot of people claim to be dog lovers and are infact breed lovers where their breed can do no wrong


i am truly a dog lover!!  give me any breed and i will make a fuss of it lol

unfortunately i don't have one - don't have enough time to give one or big enough garden atm. i personally think it would be selfish of me (that's ME folks lol) if i got one. poor little mite would be lonely most of the day, and wonder why it's hooman mummy was sat by the fire instead of walking it when the rain is pouring lol. at least i'm honest 

and if you want to know what i think of big breeds - the bigger the dog the more dog to love and treat right  x


----------



## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Polimba said:


> Yeah I get that and yes it's true, but I'm not following the relevance.
> 
> He was unfortunate enough to have been attacked by a dog and admitted to hospital, statistically you're more likely to die from medical negligence than a dog attack, so we conclude it was the hospital that killed him?


Just to state, I am not blaming the hospital 
Nor am I saying they are innocent either.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Just like cats their bites bloody hurt!! And horses their pearly whites can come keen


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> What a foolish comment to make
> 
> Cue the "staffies etc have lock jaw" comments :001_tongue:


Sometimes i think they do especially when kylo has one of my bras are in his gob


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

tashax said:


> Sometimes i think they do especially when kylo has one of my bras are in his gob


LMAO!!!!! :lol:


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

i think the vets think i'm crazy....whenever i'm there if a dog comes in i have to stroke it! lol

i thought Christmas had come round early last time i was there.... when a Newfoundland was there  most gentle thing ever. made my friends Akita and malamute look like pups lol


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## rottie (Jan 1, 2012)

Polimba said:


> Yeah I get that and yes it's true, but I'm not following the relevance.
> 
> He was unfortunate enough to have been attacked by a dog and admitted to hospital, statistically you're more likely to die from medical negligence than a dog attack, so we conclude it was the hospital that killed him?


I'm saying he could had a change of living if the hospital personal saw the ruptured spline or the infection that caused the internal bleeding (if there was an infection).


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I will more often than not stand by a dog and place the onus on the owner for allowing the dog the opportunity to attack.

I watched the video of the TV presenter, what an earth possessed her to put her head in his mouth  It looked to me as though she wanted to kiss the dog.  Like it or not in this case imo the TV presenter was in the wrong.

In the first scenario, the dog caused the injuries to the old chap but the hospital were negligent. I still say the owner was ultimately responsible as the dog is his responsibility and should have been kept under control. The poor guy didn't stand a chance. 

I prefer to liken a dog to a vehicle, a pedestrian crossing the road into the path of a oncoming vehicle and is injuried or killed. In some cases it may be the pedestrian's fault, in some cases it may be the driver's fault - it is never the vehicle's fault.


----------



## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

I think the fact that he was 83 and had suffered a dog bite and no doubt a huge shock should have prompted the hospital to keep him in for observation.


----------



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm sick of it myself!! There's story after story about pit bulls killing people and other animals but it's the owners fault? If they don't deserve to be on the dda then they must be the most misunderstood breed in the world!! People need to accept that if they're buying a pit bull, rottie, alasation etc they're potentially buying a dangerous dog that could kill someone! Sorry but there's too much evidence that these dogs can be dangerous whether or not people try to defend them by blaming the owners!!


OK, so I have worked around alot of dogs, including alot of big breeds and bull breeds, here are the bites that I know of...

I got bit by a Patterdale Terrier recently(hand).
Others by a Dachund(muliple bites to the had and arm), Rough Collie(to the leg), JRT(ankle), Springer X (to the point of not being able to use the hand properly again), another JRT(hand), a Yorkie(hand) and a Dande Dimmont that will attempt to get you at every opportunity.
So, everyone, if what this poster says is right, dont ever buy one of these breeds, because they might BITE. A dog bite is a dog bite, whatever the size, its just that the bigger dogs make the news as they do more damage.

That dog bit that man, once from what I can make put but because he was a big dog it did so much damage and OK, I accept, led to the death of that man. 
If that had been a Yorkie or some other small dog that got into his garden and bit him, potentially tripped him up which led to his death, it wouldnt be "exciting" enough to make the news.

I read some statistics a while ago that said that the most common dog bite was by a Labrador! So, that means no-one should own labs! lol

As someone else said, do we know if it was actually a PIT BULL. Even the picture they have of "a dog like this" doesnt look that much like a Pit Bull!!!

I feel very sorry for the elderly mans family and I agree that the dog will need to be PTS, owners fault or not, but it doesnt stop me feeling sorry for the dog having to loose his life 

*Heidi*


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tashax said:


> I think the fact that he was 83 and had suffered a dog bite and no doubt a huge shock should have prompted the hospital to keep him in for observation.


But perhaps he refused? An awful lot of elderly patients do.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

Dogless said:


> But perhaps he refused? An awful lot of elderly patients do.


i know a man in his 90's who refuses to go to hospital - the GP thinks it's amazing he's still alive at home lol. tough old boot bless him


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

i can`t access the atts atm , but bugger me! pit bulls even got one over on yorkies!

Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4% | Einhorn Insurance


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> i can`t access the atts atm , but bugger me! pit bulls even got one over on yorkies!
> 
> Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4% | Einhorn Insurance


whoa steady on!!! i'm a dog lover, but not a dog boffin - what in the world is an ATT????! lol


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> whoa steady on!!! i'm a dog lover, but not a dog boffin - what in the world is an ATT????! lol


american temperament test society


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

rottie said:


> I'm saying he could had a change of living if the hospital personal saw the ruptured spline or the infection that caused the internal bleeding (if there was an infection).


Yes he could, it is sad. I wasn't really directing at you, more the general thread that people were blaming the hospital from reading a paragraph in a news report, and deflecting away from the attack.


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## creekmouth (Dec 7, 2011)

Firstly, condolences to the gentlemans family, an awful way to lose a relative regardless of if it was the dogs or hospitals fault.
My thoughts on this are that there are far too many of these types of dogs in the wrong hands. 
Just today, my husband who is very 'dog friendly' was working in a clients house. The dog was in the garden, he got on with his work in the cupboard under the stairs. The woman brought the dog in the house, it launched itself at my husband. Thankfully the woman grabbed it and no damage was done, but....why did she bring it in the house? and yes, it was a pit bull type, and a large one at that! Anyone doing work in my house, is assured that the dogs will be kept away from them, and mine are most definately not 'weapon type' dogs.
I live in an area where these types of dogs are probably the only types seen now in our public spaces, the rest of us go elsewhere to exercise our dogs. Too many young people with not a clue as to how to look after a dog, but want one of a certain type as a status symbol. 
I was shocked yesterday when I saw the video of the South African Dog Whisperers' dog attacking a young girl in a shopping mall, I was more shocked that I never knew how strong and violent these attacks are. I thought until then, that if a dog attacked me or my dogs, I would be able to deal with it, but now I really don't think I could. 
That poor gentleman wouldn't have had a chance to defend himself. It is in my view, totally down to the owner, and if it were up to me, I'd have him charged most definately with manslaughter.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> american temperament test society


Gotcha! lol

so which breed comes out best? and whichone worst more to the point?! lol i'm intrigued


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> Gotcha! lol
> 
> so which breed comes out best? and whichone worst more to the point?! lol i'm intrigued


according to stats on the article it were the labrador closely followed by pit bulls worst was the Lhasa Apso


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm sick of seeing the blame pointed at my breeds (who, incidentally, I didn't buy but took on as they were all 3 let down by sh*tty former owners, as is often the case with status breeds) when any breed can be dangerous
Mine are real killers alright


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> according to stats on the article it were the labrador closely followed by pit bulls worst was the Lhasa Apso


ohh i see thanks- thanks for telling me. we used to look after a lhasa apso when i was a kid- whenever the owners went on holiday we had her. such a funny dog, but she was spoilt rotten. wouldn't say she was great, but not awful. i favoured my king charles spaniel - gorgeous boy he was  loved baked beans....lol


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm sick of seeing the blame pointed at my breeds (who, incidentally, I didn't buy but took on as they were all 3 let down by sh*tty former owners, as is often the case with status breeds) when any breed can be dangerous
Mine are real killers alright







[/QUOTE]

ARGHHHH LOOK OUT!!!!! any minute now that revenous dog is going to DEVOUR the child!! lmao

gorgeous pups - very envious


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

catlover0581 said:


> ARGHHHH LOOK OUT!!!!! any minute now that revenous dog is going to DEVOUR the child!! lmao
> 
> gorgeous pups - very envious


Thankyou, they're both absolute sweethearts, very people oriented, great with our cats, bunnies, rats & children, although like many GSDs, they do love the sound of their own voices & could bark for Britain


----------



## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm sick of seeing the blame pointed at my breeds (who, incidentally, I didn't buy but took on as they were all 3 let down by sh*tty former owners, as is often the case with status breeds) when any breed can be dangerous
Mine are real killers alright







[/QUOTE]

Well said.
And how sweet is your little girl.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

diablo said:


> i can`t access the atts atm , but bugger me! pit bulls even got one over on yorkies!
> 
> Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4% | Einhorn Insurance


Pitbulls - 86.4%
Yorkies - 82.5%

I rest my case


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Just had a look Diablo, here's the lists

http://atts.org/breed-statistics/

I'm amazed that they tested over 3000 GSD's and they still got 84.4%, thats pretty good when you consider they tested only 38 smooth Dachunds and they only got 68.8%

Now gonna look and see if there is a British version of this test.

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

tashax said:


> Pitbulls - 86.4%
> Yorkies - 82.5%
> 
> I rest my case


yeah there in black and white , some folk still wouldn`t believe it unless santa shot down the chimney and slapped them in the face with it


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> yeah there in black and white , some folk still wouldn`t believe it *unless santa shot down the chimney and slapped them in the face with it*


this actually made me LOL!!

i really want a dog....this is making me pine for one now


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

catlover0581 said:


> this actually made me LOL!!
> 
> i really want a dog....this is making me pine for one now


Just make sure you dont get a killer bull breed or a rottie or a GSD


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> this actually made me LOL!!
> 
> i really want a dog....this is making me pine for one now


glad to be of service
you`ll get there hunni , all the time in the world , the right dog will come along when the time is right. xx


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

terencesmum said:


> Well said.
> And how sweet is your little girl.


Thankyou
She is a bit of a sweetheart, unlike her grumpy old mam


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

Actually, i feel i need to be completely honest with you all here...there's a bigger predator out there - the kitten 

you should see the scar i have on my hand from my ginger ninja!!!! lucky i didn't get cat scratch disease.....lucky to even be alive!!!!! lol


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

catlover0581 said:


> Actually, i feel i need to be completely honest with you all here...there's a bigger predator out there - the kitten
> 
> you should see the scar i have on my hand from my ginger ninja!!!! lucky i didn't get cat scratch disease.....lucky to even be alive!!!!! lol


You should see the scar on the back of my right hand from my hormonally aggressive buck rat Snape


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

catlover0581 said:


> Actually, i feel i need to be completely honest with you all here...there's a bigger predator out there - the kitten
> 
> you should see the scar i have on my hand from my ginger ninja!!!! lucky i didn't get cat scratch disease.....lucky to even be alive!!!!! lol


I have a bearded dragon (only a baby) that poses more of a threat to me than the staffie. At least with the staff I can get her to sit and leave her food until I allow her to eat, the flaming dragon nearly takes my fingers off everytime I give him his veg!!!!!


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> You should see the scar on the back of my right hand from my hormonally aggressive buck rat Snape


i think we need to make the news rooms aware of these dangerous predators...lol it's our civic duty!!! :w00t: can we get kitten and rat muzzles, choker chains??!! 

i haven't even started telling you about the mental scars caused by the kids :/


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> I have a bearded dragon (only a baby) that poses more of a threat to me than the staffie. At least with the staff I can get her to sit and leave her food until I allow her to eat, the flaming dragon nearly takes my fingers off everytime I give him his veg!!!!!


Hows about 4 stitches in my finger from a 12 week old ferret  grace (ferret) poses more of a threat than kylo or my new baby ally


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

LexiLou2 said:


> I have a bearded dragon (only a baby) that poses more of a threat to me than the staffie. At least with the staff I can get her to sit and leave her food until I allow her to eat, the flaming dragon nearly takes my fingers off everytime I give him his veg!!!!!


yea them bearded dragons are killers!!!!!! they have lock jaws as well ya know


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

catlover0581 said:


> i think we need to make the news rooms aware of these dangerous predators...lol it's our civic duty!!! :w00t: can we get kitten and rat muzzles, choker chains??!!
> 
> i haven't even started telling you about the mental scars caused by the kids :/


I have seen a ferret muzzle on ebay, might fit a rat :lol:


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> i think we need to make the news rooms aware of these dangerous predators...lol it's our civic duty!!! :w00t: can we get kitten and rat muzzles, choker chains??!!
> 
> i haven't even started telling you about the mental scars caused by the kids :/


kittens are killers , rats are killers , ban em all i say!!!! 



tashax said:


> Hows about 4 stitches in my finger from a 12 week old ferret  grace (ferret) poses more of a threat than kylo or my new baby ally


ferrets , killers ya know aswell , ban , ban , ban em!


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

SEE!!! Bloomin dogs are the least of our problems!! lol


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

I guess the difference is that tests on temperament of dogs is not the same as the level of danger they may present to people and yes, some of the most aggressive dogs I have ever come across are the small snappy types but they present less danger because they can do less damage in a sustained attack. That's why the DDA list has large muscular type dogs that in addition their physical attributes have also been selectively bred over years to attack large prey(eg Dogo Argentino) and not toy dogs on it. If you have ever seen Caesar Milan being attacked by chi's, pom's and other small dogs he just puts his hand in their mouth and takes the bites but you wouldn't have a lovelier more placid dog than his old Daddy. Yes Yorkshire Terriers may have been bred to kill rats but I don't think they were selectively bred to kill pumas or wild boar like the Dogo Argentino. So although some small dogs are seen as nasty and ankle biters they are less dangerous even though they are less even tempered than some of the bigger breeds


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

So just to clarify we are banning coconuts,hospitals,rats,kittens,bearded dragons and ferrets??


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> SEE!!! Bloomin dogs are the least of our problems!! lol


yup kids as well , ban em!!!! by the time i`m finished they`ll be nothing left to ban!! they all got teeth ya know!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

My friend's water dragon scratched my hand once & it blew up like a balloon & leaked interesting green pus a day later (my hand, not the water dragon)


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

tashax said:


> So just to clarify we are banning coconuts,hospitals,rats,kittens,bearded dragons and ferrets??


yup , ban everything anything with teeth!!! them coconuts are deadly ya know!! just trying to get them apart can kill ya!!


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

tashax said:


> So just to clarify we are banning coconuts,hospitals,rats,kittens,bearded dragons and ferrets??





diablo said:


> yup kids as well , ban em!!!! by the time i`m finished they`ll be nothing left to ban!! they all got teeth ya know!


never mind banning certain dog breeds etc...just ban all teeth in every living thing, and make sure that all claws and nails are removed/trimmed, so we can all live happily ever after....and there will be world peace too....


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

diablo said:


> yup , ban everything anything with teeth!!! them coconuts are deadly ya know!! just trying to get them apart can kill ya!!


Do coconuts have teeth??


----------



## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

cbrookman said:


> I guess the difference is that tests on temperament of dogs is not the same as the level of danger they may present to people and yes, some of the most aggressive dogs I have ever come across are the small snappy types but they present less danger because they can do less damage in a sustained attack. That's why the DDA list has large muscular type dogs that in addition their physical attributes have also been selectively bred over years to attack large prey(eg Dogo Argentino) and not toy dogs on it. If you have ever seen Caesar Milan being attacked by chi's, pom's and other small dogs he just puts his hand in their mouth and takes the bites but you wouldn't have a lovelier more placid dog than his old Daddy. Yes Yorkshire Terriers may have been bred to kill rats but I don't think they were selectively bred to kill pumas or wild boar like the Dogo Argentino. So although some small dogs are seen as nasty and ankle biters *they are less dangerous* even though they are less even tempered than some of the bigger breeds


Try telling that to the parents of the children killed by small dogs.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> My friend's water dragon scratched my hand once & it blew up like a balloon & leaked interesting green pus a day later (my hand, not the water dragon)


sounds really nasty hope you healed okay x


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Diablo, what have you done to me!!!
I am hooked on the ATTS website now!

Skye Terrier is the lowest I've seen so far at 37.5%
Staffies are 89.7 

*Heidi*


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> My friend's water dragon scratched my hand once & it blew up like a balloon & leaked interesting green pus a day later (my hand, not the water dragon)


That made me :lol: it sounded like my post about my cat tom peeing in the toaster though it sounded like i said my OH had peed in the toaster which i had to clarify it was tom not OH :lol:


----------



## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

hazyreality said:


> Diablo, what have you done to me!!!
> I am hooked on the ATTS website now!
> 
> Skye Terrier is the lowest I've seen so far at 37.5%
> ...


It wont let me on


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> Do coconuts have teeth??


Indeed they do rabid things they are :lol:


----------



## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

tashax said:


> That made me :lol: it sounded like my post about my cat tom peeing in the toaster though it sounded like i said my OH had peed in the toaster which i had to clarify it was tom not OH :lol:


i don't know the story but that still made me LOL.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> never mind banning certain dog breeds etc...just ban all teeth in every living thing, and make sure that all claws and nails are removed/trimmed, so we can all live happily ever after....and there will be world peace too....


now theres an idea! :idea: i quite fancy that , would mean i wouldn`t have to visit the dentist and would save a fortune on having my nails done!



LexiLou2 said:


> Do coconuts have teeth??


i suppose it depends how they smash deadly :yesnod:


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

staffies have nothing on this predator...observe attached evidence.....

i rest my case lol


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

cbrookman said:


> I guess the difference is that tests on temperament of dogs is not the same as the level of danger they may present to people and yes, some of the most aggressive dogs I have ever come across are the small snappy types but they present less danger because they can do less damage in a sustained attack. That's why the DDA list has large muscular type dogs that in addition their physical attributes have also been selectively bred over years to attack large prey(eg Dogo Argentino) and not toy dogs on it. If you have ever seen Caesar Milan being attacked by chi's, pom's and other small dogs he just puts his hand in their mouth and takes the bites but you wouldn't have a lovelier more placid dog than his old Daddy. Yes Yorkshire Terriers may have been bred to kill rats but I don't think they were selectively bred to kill pumas or wild boar like the Dogo Argentino. So although some small dogs are seen as nasty and ankle biters they are less dangerous even though they are less even tempered than some of the bigger breeds


But they could still inflict a lot of damage if they really wanted to, especially to a small child, there's a tiny black dog near us that lunges snarling at my children on their way to school, it goes for other dogs & any other living thing it passes, it has a serious attitude problem but its owner seems to find this behaviour acceptable. I dread to think what would happen if it slipped the lead or escaped, as it seems very wound up & hell bent on attacking


----------



## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Try telling that to the parents of the children killed by small dogs.


Yes but for the very reasons I stated the incidence of deaths from small dog attacks is lower, yet there is probably a greater incidence rate of attacks by small dogs on children, but the damage they inflict although disfiguring is far less likely to be life threatening and so doesn't make the news.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

tashax said:


> Indeed they do rabid things they are :lol:


I knew i didn't like them for a reason, they are all brown and hairy and now i find they have teeth and are rabid.....argh the coconuts are coming!!!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Made me chuckle!
'IM FRIENDLY' Dog Bandana Staffordshire Bull Terrier | eBay


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

hazyreality said:


> Diablo, what have you done to me!!!
> I am hooked on the ATTS website now!
> 
> Skye Terrier is the lowest I've seen so far at 37.5%
> ...


I was a tad curious so had to check my future breed 91.1 (Pug) & 86.8 (Siberian Husky)


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

diablo said:


> sounds really nasty hope you healed okay x


Yeah it healed fine, it was my own fault for not cleaning it properly (I'm not really up on herps but I think they can carry nasty bacteria IIRC)


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

tashax said:


> It wont let me on


Try this 
Page 1

http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> Diablo, what have you done to me!!!
> I am hooked on the ATTS website now!
> 
> Skye Terrier is the lowest I've seen so far at 37.5%
> ...


i can`t get on there either at the moment


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Feel guilty now 

Just compared the deaths caused by dogs and deaths caused by humans.

I am part of a killer breed 

Let's put humans on the banned list.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

diablo said:


> i can`t get on there either at the moment


Nor me :nonod: !


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

PaulRyan said:


> I was a tad curious so had to check my future breed 91.1 (Pug) & 86.8 (Siberian Husky)


Could someone please post the link again as I want to look at my future breeds & it wouldn't let me acces when I Googled it


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> Yeah it healed fine, it was my own fault for not cleaning it properly (I'm not really up on herps but I think they can carry nasty bacteria IIRC)


they can , especially damp humid conditions beautiful creatures though , very easy on the eye


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Could someone please post the link again as I want to look at my future breeds & it wouldn't let me acces when I Googled it


http://atts.org/breed-statistics/ If you still can't get through I could check for you.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> Feel guilty now
> 
> Just compared the deaths caused by dogs and deaths caused by humans.
> 
> ...


just remove your teeth and nails, and we'll let you loose in public once more lol. as long as you don't kick, punch or push....or we'll chop arms and legs off too. anything for a safe society! lol

although...who would cut off the surgeons arms and legs at the end of it all? hmmmm.....lol


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

PaulRyan said:


> http://atts.org/breed-statistics/ If you still can't get through I could check for you.


Doesn't work.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> I knew i didn't like them for a reason, they are all brown and hairy and now i find they have teeth and are rabid.....argh the coconuts are coming!!!


Never mind zombie apocalypse its a coconut apocalypse


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

PaulRyan said:


> http://atts.org/breed-statistics/ If you still can't get through I could check for you.


Thanks but it's still telling me I'm forbidden
The breeds I'm looking at owning are Japanese Shiba Inu & Finnish Lapphund


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> Doesn't work.


I cant get on at all


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

cbrookman said:


> Yes but for the very reasons I stated the incidence of deaths from small dog attacks is lower, yet there is probably a greater incidence rate of attacks by small dogs on children, but the damage they inflict although disfiguring is far less likely to be life threatening and so doesn't make the news.


You will be surprised at what breeds are top of the list for deaths.

Some what related have you seen what breeds are banned or restricted in the US? Breeds on the list include St Bernards, Pugs, Otterhounds, Newfoundlands, and Golden Retrievers. They are all there for a reason.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

PaulRyan said:


> http://atts.org/breed-statistics/ If you still can't get through I could check for you.


It says I'm forbidden!!!

Not sure what i did to be forbidden but I apparantly am!!


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Afghan Hound	162	117	45	72.2%
Airedale Terrier	102	79	23	77.5%
Akbash Dog	16	14	2	87.5%
Akita	534	406	128	76.0%
Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog	10	7	3	70.0%
Alaskan Klee Kai	2	1	1	50.0%
Alaskan Malamute	224	191	33	85.3%
American Bulldog	185	158	27	85.4%
American Eskimo	83	68	15	81.9%
American Foxhound	2	2	0	100.0%
American Pit Bull Terrier	804	695	109	86.4%
American Staffordshire Terrier	627	528	99	84.2%
American Tunnel Terrier	2	2	0	100.0%
American Water Spaniel	7	6	1	85.7%
Anatolian Shepherd Dog	31	25	6	80.6%
Australian Cattle Dog	187	148	39	79.1%
Australian Kelpie	6	5	1	83.3%
Australian Shepherd	641	523	118	81.6%
Australian Terrier	16	13	3	81.3%
Azawakh	1	1	0	100.0%
Basenji	170	115	55	67.6%
Basset Hound	35	30	5	85.7%
Beagle	72	58	14	80.6%
Bearded Collie	45	24	21	53.3%
Beauceron	27	23	4	85.2%
Bedlington Terrier	20	18	2	90.0%
Belgian Lakenois	7	7	0	100.0%
Belgian Malinois	298	274	24	91.9%


Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Belgian Sheepdog	486	391	95	80.5%
Belgian Tervuren	472	377	95	79.9%
Berger Blanc Swiss	0	0	0	0.0%
Berger Picard	9	9	0	100.0%
Bernese Mountain Dog	179	153	26	85.5%
Bichon Frise	30	23	7	76.7%
Black And Tan Coonhound	13	13	0	100.0%
Black Russian Terrier	64	60	4	93.8%
Bloodhound	32	23	9	71.9%
Blue Mountain Shepherd	1	1	0	100.0%
Bluetick Coonhound	2	2	0	100.0%
Boerboel	18	18	0	100.0%
Bolognese	1	1	0	100.0%
Border Collie	271	220	51	81.2%
Border Terrier	123	112	11	91.1%
Borzoi	105	94	11	89.5%
Boston Terrier	66	56	10	84.8%
Des Flandres	894	760	134	85.0%
Boxer	424	355	69	83.7%
Boykin Spaniel	2	2	0	100.0%
Briard	375	306	69	81.6%
Brittany Spaniel	116	105	11	90.5%
Brussels Griffon	11	10	1	90.9%
Bull Terrier	77	70	7	90.9%
Bulldog	135	95	40	70.4%
Bullmastiff	130	103	27	79.2%
Cairn Terrier	49	36	13	73.5%
Canaan Dog	4	3	1	75.0%
Cane Corso	106	88	18	83.0%
Cao De Fila De Sao Miguel	3	2	1	66.7%

Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Cardigan Welsh Corgi	72	57	15	79.2%
Carolina Dog	2	2	0	100.0%
Catahoula Leopard Dog (Louisiana)	13	10	3	76.9%
Caucasian Ovcharka	7	6	1	85.7%
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel	53	44	9	83.0%
Central Asian Shepherd	13	11	2	84.6%
Chart Polski	1	1	0	100.0%
Chesapeake Bay Retriever	114	99	15	86.8%
Chihuahua	38	27	11	71.1%
Chinese Crested	33	25	8	75.8%
Chinese Shar-Pei	211	149	62	70.6%
Chinook	8	6	2	75.0%
Chow Chow	98	70	28	71.4%
Clumber Spaniel	12	10	2	83.3%
Cocker Spaniel	227	186	41	81.9%
Collie	856	684	172	79.9%
Curly-Coated Retriever	174	159	15	91.4%
Dachshund (Miniature Longhaired)	25	22	3	88.0%
Dachshund (Miniature Smooth)	35	28	7	80.0%
Dachshund (Miniature Wirehaired)	24	20	4	83.3%
Dachshund (Standard Longhair)	34	25	9	73.5%
Dachshund (Standard Smooth)	48	33	15	68.8%
Dachshund (Standard Wirehaired)	31	26	5	83.9%
Dalmatian	330	272	58	82.4%
Dandie Dinmont Terrier	7	5	2	71.4%
Doberman Pinscher	1,592	1,237	355	77.7%
Dogo Argentino	15	14	1	93.3%
Dogo Canario	3	3	0	100.0%

Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Dogue De Bordeaux	76	56	20	73.7%
Dutch Shepherd	12	12	0	100.0%
English Bull Terrier	2	2	0	100.0%
English Bulldog	0	0	0	0.0%
English Cocker Spaniel	70	65	5	92.9%
English Foxhound	3	2	1	66.7%
English Jack Russell Terrier	3	3	0	100.0%
English Mastiff	2	2	0	100.0%
English Pitbull	1	0	1	0.0%
English Pointer	1	1	0	100.0%
English Setter	28	23	5	82.1%
English Sheperd	6	6	0	100.0%
English Springer Spaniel	148	124	24	83.8%
Estrela Mountain Dog	1	1	0	100.0%
Field Spaniel	10	8	2	80.0%
Fila Brasileiro	14	11	3	78.6%
Finnish Lapphund	7	4	3	57.1%
Finnish Spitz	10	7	3	70.0%
Flat-Coated Retriever	87	80	7	92.0%
French Bulldog	31	30	1	96.8%
German Pinscher	20	17	3	85.0%
German Shepherd Dog	3,078	2,597	481	84.4%
German Shorthaired Pointer	127	97	30	76.4%
German Wirehaired Pointer	17	14	3	82.4%
Giant Schnauzer	254	194	60	76.4%
Golden Retriever	764	649	115	84.9%
Gordon Setter	67	56	11	83.6%
Grand Basset Griffon Vendeen	2	2	0	100.0%
Great Dane	278	222	56	79.9%
Great Pyrenees	141	119	22	84.4%
Greater Swiss Mountain Dog	247	202	45	81.8%
Greyhound	66	54	12	81.8%
Havanese	10	8	2	80.0%


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

LexiLou2 said:


> they are all brown and hairy


urm so is my new squeeze , what ya trying to say!!! i`m seeing a coconut


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Hovawart	17	16	1	94.1%
Ibizan Hound	32	29	3	90.6%
Icelandic Sheepdog	3	3	0	100.0%
Irish Glen Of Imaal Terrier	2	1	1	50.0%
Irish Setter	142	128	14	90.1%
Irish Terrier	10	8	2	80.0%
Irish Water Spaniel	28	25	3	89.3%
Irish Wolfhound	98	88	10	89.8%
Italian Greyhound	50	41	9	82.0%
Jack Russell Terrier	63	53	10	84.1%
Japanese Chin	5	5	0	100.0%
Karelian Bear Dog	3	3	0	100.0%
Keeshond	83	67	16	80.7%
Kerry Blue Terrier	49	36	13	73.5%
King Shepherd	1	1	0	100.0%
Komondor	10	9	1	90.0%
Korean Jindo	1	1	0	100.0%
Kuvasz	48	37	11	77.1%
Labrador Retriever	773	714	59	92.4%
Lagotto Romagnolo	1	1	0	100.0%
Lakeland Terrier	8	6	2	75.0%
Leonberger	16	15	1	93.8%
Lhasa Apso	27	19	8	70.4%
Lowchen	12	9	3	75.0%
Lurcher	5	5	0	100.0%
Magyar Agar	1	1	0	100.0%
Maltese	16	13	3	81.3%
Manchester Terrier (Standard)	56	50	6	89.3%
Manchester Terrier (Toy)	16	15	1	93.8%
Mastiff	188	160	28	85.1%
Miniature Bull Terrier	11	11	0	100.0%


Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Miniature Pinscher	54	44	10	81.5%
Miniature Poodle	68	53	15	77.9%
Miniature Schnauzer	112	88	24	78.6%
Mixed Breed	1,011	870	141	86.1%
Mudi	4	2	2	50.0%
Neapolitan Mastiff	15	10	5	66.7%
Newfoundland	174	152	22	87.4%
Norfolk Terrier	14	13	1	92.9%
Norwegian Elkhound	121	90	31	74.4%
Norwich Terrier	14	10	4	71.4%
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever	24	17	7	70.8%
Old English Bull Dogge	8	7	1	87.5%
Old English Sheepdog	47	36	11	76.6%
Otterhound	10	7	3	70.0%
Papillon	86	69	17	80.2%
Parson Russell Terrier	10	10	0	100.0%
Patterdale Terrier	3	2	1	66.7%
Pekingese	15	14	1	93.3%
Pembroke Welsh Corgi	202	158	44	78.2%
Perro De Presa Canario	3	3	0	100.0%
Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen	9	8	1	88.9%
Pharaoh Hound	53	43	10	81.1%
Pointer	19	17	2	89.5%
Polish Lowland Sheepdog	11	6	5	54.5%
Pomeranian	33	25	8	75.8%
Portuguese Water Dog	158	123	35	77.8%
Presa Canario	33	30	3	90.9%
Pug	45	41	4	91.1%
Puli	25	23	2	92.0%
Pumi	1	1	0	100.0%
Pungsan	2	2	0	100.0%

Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Pyrenean Shepherd	1	1	0	100.0%
Rat Terrier	21	16	5	76.2%
Redbone Coonhound	5	5	0	100.0%
Rhodesian Ridgeback	455	384	71	84.4%
Rottweiler	5,446	4,558	888	83.7%
Russo-European Laika	2	2	0	100.0%
Saint Bernard	49	41	8	83.7%
Saluki	61	42	19	68.9%
Samoyed	284	226	58	79.6%
Schipperke	112	103	9	92.0%
Scottish Deerhound	34	29	5	85.3%
Scottish Terrier	33	21	12	63.6%
Sealyham Terrier	1	1	0	100.0%
Shetland Sheepdog	496	338	158	68.1%
Shiba Inu	25	16	9	64.0%
Shih Tzu	41	32	9	78.0%
Shiloh Shepherd	25	20	5	80.0%
Siberian Husky	296	257	39	86.8%
Silken Windhound	1	1	0	100.0%
Silky Terrier	19	14	5	73.7%
Skye Terrier	8	3	5	37.5%
Sloughi	1	1	0	100.0%
Smooth Fox Terrier	55	42	13	76.4%
Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier	36	26	10	72.2%
Spinone Italiano	6	3	3	50.0%
Staffordshire Bull Terrier	117	105	12	89.7%
Standard Poodle	249	215	34	86.3%
Standard Schnauzer	60	40	20	66.7%
Sussex Spaniel	4	4	0	100.0%
Swedish Vallhund	2	2	0	100.0%


Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
Texas Heeler	1	1	0	100.0%
Tibetan Kyapso	1	1	0	100.0%
Tibetan Mastiff	14	6	8	42.9%
Tibetan Spaniel	12	11	1	91.7%
Tibetan Terrier	14	8	6	57.1%
Tosa	3	3	0	100.0%
Toy Fox Terrier	9	7	2	77.8%
Toy Poodle	52	43	9	82.7%
Treeing Feist	2	1	1	50.0%
Treeing Walker Coonhound	8	5	3	62.5%
Vizsla	47	39	8	83.0%
Weimaraner	215	173	42	80.5%
Welsh Sheepdog	1	1	0	100.0%
Welsh Springer Spaniel	6	6	0	100.0%
Welsh Terrier	37	29	8	78.4%
West Highland White Terrier	60	53	7	88.3%
Whippet	194	166	28	85.6%
White Shepherd	21	17	4	81.0%
Wire Fox Terrier	18	15	3	83.3%
Xoloitzcuintli	5	4	1	80.0%
Yorkshire Terrier	40	33	7	82.5%
Yugoslavian Tricolor Hound	1	1	0	100.0%


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

PaulRyan said:


> Breed Name	Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
> Afghan Hound	162	117	45	72.2%
> Airedale Terrier	102	79	23	77.5%
> Akbash Dog	16	14	2	87.5%
> ...


Thanking you ver muchly o thee who is not forbidden


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

diablo said:


> urm so is my new squeeze , what ya trying to say!!! i`m seeing a coconut


A coconut in disguise


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

diablo said:


> urm so is my new squeeze , what ya trying to say!!! i`m seeing a coconut


Your words not mine!!


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

What do the numbers before the percentage mean??

Staffordshire Bull Terrier	*117	105	12* 89.7%


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

tashax said:


> A coconut in disguise


you know i did wonder like with all the hair!!!!  :w00t: i think he needs banning!!!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

tashax said:


> What do the numbers before the percentage mean??
> 
> Staffordshire Bull Terrier	*117	105	12* 89.7%


tested dogs, passed dogs, failed dogs


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Lexilou2 our killer breed has passed with 89.7%


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Yikes! Both of my choices haven't scored as well as the GSDs & Rotties
I will just have to make sure I have a well socialised, well trained little ambassador to up the percentage a bit


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tashax said:


> What do the numbers before the percentage mean??
> 
> Staffordshire Bull Terrier	*117	105	12* 89.7%


Tested Passed Failed Percentage


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

tashax said:


> What do the numbers before the percentage mean??
> 
> Staffordshire Bull Terrier	*117	105	12* 89.7%


117 tested, 105 passed, 12 failed


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> you know i did wonder like with all the hair!!!!  :w00t: i think he needs banning!!!


don't ban him yet - give him a chance.

just be careful...he may bite....


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

diablo said:


> you know i did wonder like with all the hair!!!!  :w00t: i think he needs banning!!!


He is officially banned call the coconut enforcement police


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tashax said:


> Lexilou2 our killer breed has passed with 89.7%


RRs are 84.4% so not too bad again!

I have a small problem in that the numbers of dogs of each breed tested were very different, so the results are not completely unbiased and representative I wouldn't have thought. Interesting viewing though.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> tested dogs, passed dogs, failed dogs





Dogless said:


> Tested Passed Failed Percentage





simplysardonic said:


> 117 tested, 105 passed, 12 failed


Thanking you muchly


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

This is the list I refer to in my last post

List Of 75 Banned Or Restricted Breeds Is your Dog On The New List??You Might Be Suprised.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

I would like to point out here, for the sake of statistics, that this has to be taken with a pinch of salt!
The numbers of dogs tested vary greatly, so nobody should be tempted into a statement that says "This breed is safer than this breed". They only tested 100+ SBTs but several thousand Rotties. Rotties came slightly worse off, but that could well be a statistical error.

Not that I think this survey is bad. In fact, I think it is a really important piece of research, but just wanted to point this out. :blush:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

On that list, WTH is a 'Silken Windhound'????
it sounds like a dog with a lovely coat but a particularly bad fart problem


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> This is the list I refer to in my last post
> 
> List Of 75 Banned Or Restricted Breeds Is your Dog On The New List??You Might Be Suprised.


blimey! pugs! wtf!! wheres the yorkies ?  [only kidding!!!]


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

i really ought to go to bed now...but slightly concerned about being eaten in my sleep 

do u think if i feed the kitten now it'll last through the night before looking for another meal (ie my leg?) :scared:


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> On that list, WTH is a 'Silken Windhound'????
> it sounds like a dog with a lovely coat but a particularly bad fart problem


They are stunning dogs.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> Depends what you mean by "Bad". *If you accept that "bad" could mean aggressive, reactive, with a low trigger threshold, nothing obvious in the way of warnings, and lack of self control, then I would say that some of them are born that way. * For a dog bred for fighting, these traits would be a positive bonus, and the selection for breeding in fighting dogs would tend to promulgate such animals.


That I agree with, I never really thought of those factors. But its the humans that decide to breed from a dog/dogs with a bad temperaments, low thresholds, lack of self control etc.



Burrowzig said:


> I think some people are born bad too. Psychpaths that just view other people as objects, for instance. Why should dogs be immune from the same things that can go wrong in mind/brain development? *I see far too much 'innocent babies' on this forum, it's sentimentality at its worst.*


But I can't help but feel for the dog (of course as well as the victims, my heart goes out to them too). I feel bad because a dog whether it is "born bad" or trained/learnt to be aggressive because of humans, they never do anything with malice or hate, just what they think is right.

In my eyes its always going to boil down to the **** that bred the dogs "bad"/trained them/encouraged them to be DA/HA, they are the villains in my eyes, never the dog.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> i really ought to go to bed now...but slightly concerned about being eaten in my sleep
> 
> do u think if i feed the kitten now it'll last through the night before looking for another meal (ie my leg?) :scared:


if ya feed ya kitten now it might just kill ya with his / her farts


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> I would like to point out here, for the sake of statistics, that this has to be taken with a pinch of salt!
> The numbers of dogs tested vary greatly, so nobody should be tempted into a statement that says "This breed is safer than this breed". They only tested 100+ SBTs but several thousand Rotties. Rotties came slightly worse off, but that could well be a statistical error.
> 
> Not that I think this survey is bad. In fact, I think it is a really important piece of research, but just wanted to point this out. :blush:


Completely understand that
Alaskan Klee Kai 2 1 1 50.0%

Only 2 dogs tested therefore not a big enough test area to get real results


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

catlover0581 said:


> i really ought to go to bed now...but slightly concerned about being eaten in my sleep
> 
> do u think if i feed the kitten now it'll last through the night before looking for another meal (ie my leg?) :scared:


I'd play it safe if I were you & invest in a full chainmail catsuit before going to bed
Here to help



DoggieBag said:


> They are stunning dogs.


I just googled them, very pretty


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

tashax said:


> Completely understand that
> Alaskan Klee Kai 2 1 1 50.0%
> 
> Only 2 dogs tested therefore not a big enough test area to get real results


Even 100 dogs is a small sample and it's difficult to tell if it has been compromised in any way. Say, if they got all the dogs from the local dog training class, the result would be skewed.
The several thousand rotties is a much more realistic picture. 
The more dogs you test, the smaller the statistical error.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

ok guys, i'm being brave and giving it shot - going to bed.

if i don't make it, please carry on the campaign to ban teeth, coconuts, nails, stooooopid owners etc

hopefully i will post another day....lovely talking to you all - it's been so fun!  xxx


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

terencesmum said:


> Even 100 dogs is a small sample and it's difficult to tell if it has been compromised in any way. Say, if they got all the dogs from the local dog training class, the result would be skewed.
> The several thousand rotties is a much more realistic picture.
> The more dogs you test, the smaller the statistical error.


There were 25 Shibas & 9 Lappies on there, so they're likely to be skewed


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

catlover0581 said:


> ok guys, i'm being brave and giving it shot - going to bed.
> 
> if i don't make it, please carry on the campaign to ban teeth, coconuts, nails, stooooopid owners etc
> 
> hopefully i will post another day....lovely talking to you all - it's been so fun!  xxx


Nighty night, don't let the bedbugs, er........... bite


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> There were 25 Shibas & 9 Lappies on there, so they're likely to be skewed


Definitely wouldn't trust those to be accurate.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

catlover0581 said:


> ok guys, i'm being brave and giving it shot - going to bed.
> 
> if i don't make it, please carry on the campaign to ban teeth, coconuts, nails, stooooopid owners etc
> 
> hopefully i will post another day....lovely talking to you all - it's been so fun!  xxx


nitey nite just be careful those bedbugs don`t bite  xxxxxxxxx


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

catlover0581 said:


> ok guys, i'm being brave and giving it shot - going to bed.
> 
> if i don't make it, please carry on the campaign to ban teeth, coconuts, nails, stooooopid owners etc
> 
> hopefully i will post another day....lovely talking to you all - it's been so fun!  xxx


Make sure to store some weapons under your pillow, just incase


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Regardless of what actually caused this dear old man's death the dog must be destroyed - no questions asked. How many of our dogs would actually attack a person after escaping into their garden? Even with Flynn the way he is with dogs I feel 100% confident with him and any of my dogs around people. Dogs that go out out their way to bite people are of no use to our society IMO. The owner of this dog is obviously an idiot and couldn't have raised it properly either, not the dogs fault maybe but far too dangerous for any sympathy from me either way. My sympathies lie with the old man and his family.


The old man most likely ruptured his spleen during the fall he sustained in the attack and perhaps the hospital could have picked it up, side tracked by the leg wound I expect. You would be surprised how many elderly patients don't seem to feel pain like younger one's do and are less likely to complain, probably in shock too. So very very sad that people aren't even safe in their own back gardens these days, utterly disgraceful!

Some body's, dad, granddad, great granddad - no way for him to leave this Earth, may he rest in peace and hopefully the irresponsible dog owner will serve a prison sentence.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Off to bed now as well. Need to get my sleep before I become the owner on Saturday, to the only dog around here that will be in a muzzle


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Nataliee said:


> 2 other stories about dog attacks in the papers today
> TV anchor Kyle Dyer bit in face by rescued dog | Mail Online
> The dogs ears were back, he was licking his lips, and then finally turned his head away from her what more warnings did she need that he was uncomfortable with the situation
> Mother savaged to death by her pet Alsatian found covered in blood with the dog 'chewing her face' | Mail Online


The Alsation Story happened in Nuneaton was on our local news today saying that the story of the Dog actually killing the woman had NOT been confirmed.She Told family the evening before that she was not well. post mortom was today.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Yes i am also off to bed, i have my new baby to go and see and walk tomorrow, another staffy what am i thinking in getting this killer breed :nonod:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> The Alsation Story happened in Nuneaton was on our local news today saying that the story of the Dog actually killing the woman had NOT been confirmed.She Told family the evening before that she was not well. post mortom was today.


I think the majority of newspapers have withdrawn or altered their stories now, but enough people will probably have read them & believe the dog did kill her


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## PaulRyan (Aug 17, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Regardless of what actually caused this dear old man's death the dog must be destroyed - no questions asked. How many of our dogs would actually attack a person after escaping into their garden? Even with Flynn the way he is with dogs I feel 100% confident with him and any of my dogs around people. Dogs that go out out their way to bite people are of no use to our society IMO. The owner of this dog is obviously an idiot and couldn't have raised it properly either, not the dogs fault maybe but far too dangerous for any sympathy from me either way. My sympathies lie with the old man and his family.
> 
> The old man most likely ruptured his spleen during the fall he sustained in the attack and perhaps the hospital could have picked it up, side tracked by the leg wound I expect. You would be surprised how many elderly patients don't seem to feel pain like younger one's do and are less likely to complain, probably in shock too. So very very sad that people aren't even safe in their own back gardens these days, utterly disgraceful!
> 
> Some body's, dad, granddad, great granddad - no way for him to leave this Earth, may he rest in peace and hopefully the irresponsible dog owner will serve a prison sentence.


I agree, Even though I believe the owner(s) are always at fault. When a dog attacks becomes HA it should be pts, which is why I always feel bad for all innocent parties the person(s) attacked, their family and the dog itself.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Malmum said:


> Regardless of what actually caused this dear old man's death the dog must be destroyed - no questions asked. How many of our dogs would actually attack a person after escaping into their garden? Even with Flynn the way he is with dogs I feel 100% confident with him and any of my dogs around people. Dogs that go out out their way to bite people are of no use to our society IMO. The owner of this dog is obviously an idiot and couldn't have raised it properly either, not the dogs fault maybe but far too dangerous for any sympathy from me either way. My sympathies lie with the old man and his family.


tbh , no one knows the full story according to one article old gent was often heard shouting at the dogs , so whose to say he weren`t in some way teasing them / goading them ? you don`t. who in their right mind would refuse to put a fence up if they were so scared of said dogs ?? you wouldn`t , it isn`t rational thinking. i believe there is more to that story yet to come out whether it will i have no idea. BUT , you cannot blame the dogs , what do you expect when there are no boundaries and nothing between said person seperating him from those dogs. whose to say he wasn`t actually in their yard ? we`ve all seen the lies spouted in todays press regarding the german shepherd , so what makes this story so different ? in one article it states that there was an on going argument , i don`t know any dog that wouldn`t defend it`s owner a dog isn`t going to care whether that person is elderly or not , they can only see someone attacking / shouting / call it what you like going in the direction of their master , no one can honestly say when push come to shove they wouldn`t rely on their dog to protect them in certain circumstances.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Regardless of what actually caused this dear old man's death the dog must be destroyed - no questions asked. How many of our dogs would actually attack a person after escaping into their garden? Even with Flynn the way he is with dogs I feel 100% confident with him and any of my dogs around people. Dogs that go out out their way to bite people are of no use to our society IMO. *The owner of this dog is obviously an idiot and couldn't have raised it properly either, not the dogs fault* maybe but far too dangerous for any sympathy from me either way. My sympathies lie with the old man and his family.
> 
> The old man most likely ruptured his spleen during the fall he sustained in the attack and perhaps the hospital could have picked it up, side tracked by the leg wound I expect. You would be surprised how many elderly patients don't seem to feel pain like younger one's do and are less likely to complain, probably in shock too. So very very sad that people aren't even safe in their own back gardens these days, utterly disgraceful!
> 
> Some body's, dad, granddad, great granddad - no way for him to leave this Earth, may he rest in peace and *hopefully the irresponsible dog owner will serve a prison sentence.*


Totally agree.

Its always the innocent ones who suffer because of stupid ****s! 

xxx


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

tbh, if no-one knows the full story...he could have been the nicest old man in the world????

I do not agree that certain breeds of dogs should be banned, I would however quite happily ban certain types of people. Some people can have a dangerous little dog and some people can have a dangerous big dog.

Unfortunately the dogs will pay the ultimate price for their act and the owner will have learned nothing.

Wether the old man was lovely or wether he was horrible bears no relevance, a family is torn apart and a breed of dog is further villianised....no one wins :nono:


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2012)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> tbh, if no-one knows the full story...*he could have been the nicest old man in the world????*
> 
> I do not agree that certain breeds of dogs should be banned, I would however quite happily ban certain types of people. Some people can have a dangerous little dog and some people can have a dangerous big dog.
> 
> ...


he quite possibly was , but could have possibly been a git to live next door to , who knows nowt queerer than folk. 
of course i feel saddened this has happened and how crushing it must be for this mans family
but first and foremost i am an animal lover , i`d say i have far more in common with animals than most people , i`ll always defend the honour of a dog especially when it transpires they`ve been reared and kept by idiots. whether that would be your average staffy or tiny jack russell , makes no difference to me.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

diablo said:


> he quite possibly was , but could have possibly been a git to live next door to , who knows nowt queerer than folk.
> of course i feel saddened this has happened and how crushing it must be for this mans family
> but first and foremost i am an animal lover , i`d say i have far more in common with animals than most people , *i`ll always defend the honour of a dog especially when it transpires they`ve been reared and kept by idiots. whether that would be your average staffy or tiny jack russell , makes no difference to me*.


I think we are both saying similar things but in different ways I don't blame the dogs one bit. Big or small all dogs have teeth and the potential to do harm, sadly stories like this just add fuel to those who think that certain breeds of dogs are to blame. Most people with sense realise that a dog is only as good as its owner :smile:


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> You know what!? In all these cases of dogs killing kids there's pictures just like this of them! The parents cry and point at the pics and wonder how they went from snuggling up to them to ripping her face off!


i`d say 99.9% of pet owners here are perfectly comfortable letting their kiddies snuggle with their dogs under supervision!



WelshYorkieLover said:


> I just love how Hipicrital some people are on here! And blind and naive and can't see the realities! I don't hate big dogs at all! And I have nothing against staffies at all!! *But the fact is my yorkie couldn't do as much damage as a large dog! That is fact! *


still quite capable of killing a child or sleeping / unconscious adult FACT!



WelshYorkieLover said:


> I know how nasty yorkies can be I've grown up with them. And i honestly believce that if they came in the size of a lab etc they would be just as dangerous as these dogs that has killed people! But the fact is if my yorkie attacked you yes you'd have a lot of holes in your flesh, probably need stitches and be in a lot of pain but you wouldn't be killed as they just aren't powerful enough! And when I get a yorkie I accept that this dog could cause someone damage. That I could be looking back at photos one day of Millie cwtched up with kids and think well I can believe she's gone and bitten that child etc but I won't be looking at it thinking I can't believe that child is dead because of my dog!
> 
> It's very dangerous to believe that your large dog could never kill somebody! Because they have the physical power to. And all those families who's dog has mauled someone thought the exact same thing as you do now - my dog could never do that! It only happens to dogs with stupid owners!! That's very naive of you!!


you know my vet dislikes yorkies and i know that to be FACT he`s been bitten very badly several times by one that frequently visits the surgery , last bite needed surgery as the dog had severed an artery in his wrist , seen the drama unfold at reception waiting with my own dog. he quite possibly could have bled to death or it could have led to a really nasty infection , but hey ho , all part of his job i suspect you`re going to say next i know it put him out of action for a few weeks as i couldn`t get an appointment for my own dog to see him!!! were seen instead by his rather rubbish understudy. i often still see that dog there had i been him i`d refuse to treat the dog!
i think your reading far much into the rubbish being published , it`s already been proved today how far the press will go to publish blatent lies! usually when dogs do attack , it`s for a reason and 99% of the time the dogs are in their own homes that have VISITING children , majority of children rarely ever live in the same property as the dog , what the press fail to mention IS WHAT the child was doing to the damn dog in the first place to provoke such a reaction. these things happen for a reason in most if not all cases , it`s just the absolute truth is never told.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Fair enough that bloke could have bled to death! As I said I know what rat can do and they're way smaller than my yorkie! But every single time there's an article about a dog mauling someone, the standard answer from people on the forums is "it's the owners fault!". It can't always be the owners fault! And I'm sorry but from all the killings I hear about there's certain dogs I would never trust and therefore never own! There was a young bloke on the ward I was on and he had had. His top and half of his lip ripped off and his left eyebrow by a rottie? Do you think he gives a **** whether the dig has bad owners or not? No he just wants the dig killed and if a dog is capable of doing that it has to be pts whether the owners were stupid or not!!


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Fair enough that bloke could have bled to death! As I said I know what rat can do and they're way smaller than my yorkie! But every single time there's an article about a dog mauling someone, the standard answer from people on the forums is "it's the owners fault!". It can't always be the owners fault! And I'm sorry but from all the killings I hear about there's certain dogs I would never trust and therefore never own! There was a young bloke on the ward I was on and he had had. His top and half of his lip ripped off and his left eyebrow by a rottie? Do you think he gives a **** whether the dig has bad owners or not? No he just wants the dig killed and if a dog is capable of doing that it has to be pts whether the owners were stupid or not!!


Very very few dogs are born bad, and those that are, are often because of underlying health problems.

I am firmly of the opinion, in 99% of cases, it is down to the owner or the victim. Parents leave kids with dogs, idiots bring up dogs. No dog is aggressive for no reason. :nono:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

This shuoldn't be turned into a "your breed, my breed" slanging match. If it were a Malamute who bit the old guy I would be just as livid, it wouldn't be MY Malamute would it? So lets not forget it's not a forum members dog eh?

Fact is that dog regardless of what it was helped lead to the old mans demise, if it were not for that event taking place he'd still be around now. WTF the old guys demeanor has to do with it is beyond my comprehension - he was in his own garden, would anyone feel the same if a thug had decked him under the same circumstances?

I love dogs, more than many humans I know but I'm not so misguided by my feelings that I can't see common sense and if a Malamute had been the culprit I wouldn't feel everyone was having a go at mine if they thought it should be PTS. I mean that would just be completely ridiculous and a totally irrational way of thinking!


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

Malmum said:


> This shuoldn't be turned into a "your breed, my breed" slanging match. If it were a Malamute who bit the old guy I would be just as livid, it wouldn't be MY Malamute would it? So lets not forget it's not a forum members dog eh?
> 
> Fact is that dog regardless of what it was helped lead to the old mans demise, if it were not for that event taking place he'd still be around now. WTF the old guys demeanor has to do with it is beyond my comprehension - *he was in his own garden*, would anyone feel the same if a thug had decked him under the same circumstances?
> 
> I love dogs, more than many humans I know but I'm not so misguided by my feelings that I can't see common sense and if a Malamute had been the culprit I wouldn't feel everyone was having a go at mine if they thought it should be PTS. I mean that would just be completely ridiculous and a totally irrational way of thinking!


but how do you know were you there ? i wouldn`t be believing everything i read in the papers , judging by a certain article today just proves that if he werent in his own garden by some chance , he were then infact trespassing , not saying he deserved it , if that could be the case , just saying you shouldn`t take it as gospel regarding everything you read. if the dog were chained as the one article states , how on earth did the dog get to him if he were in his own garden i`m sorry but something just does not ring true. either the dog were chained , or it weren`t either he were in his own yard or he wasn`t , which is it ?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Poor man. What a horrible way to die, alone and in who knows what level of pain.


And lol @ the hypocritical ignorance of some people.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

It's funny you should mention that because everyone told me how stupid I was and how far less dangerous a yorkie would be than the large dog in the post! Now who's contradictive!!

Whatever the reason a man is dead because of a dog that is illegal to own in this country!! The owner didn't go into the mans garden and attack him the dog did! Dogs are not robots and have a free will of their own. Instinct is stronger than what theyve been taught. If the dogs instinct was to go into someone else's garden and attack, just like the owner would be if it was him that did it, the dog should be removed from society!


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## Balto-x (Nov 7, 2010)

Excellent post
The dog needed to be pts regardless of breed.
Would you feel sorry for a thug who had been brought up "bad" if they had done this? 
Saying he couldnt help it he knew no better?
This dog took a man's life

QUOTE=Malmum;1061791240]This shuoldn't be turned into a "your breed, my breed" slanging match. If it were a Malamute who bit the old guy I would be just as livid, it wouldn't be MY Malamute would it? So lets not forget it's not a forum members dog eh?

Fact is that dog regardless of what it was helped lead to the old mans demise, if it were not for that event taking place he'd still be around now. WTF the old guys demeanor has to do with it is beyond my comprehension - he was in his own garden, would anyone feel the same if a thug had decked him under the same circumstances?

I love dogs, more than many humans I know but I'm not so misguided by my feelings that I can't see common sense and if a Malamute had been the culprit I wouldn't feel everyone was having a go at mine if they thought it should be PTS. I mean that would just be completely ridiculous and a totally irrational way of thinking![/QUOTE]


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## Balto-x (Nov 7, 2010)

Just a quick question how do people know the dogs were bought up incorrectly?


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> It's funny you should mention that because everyone told me how stupid I was and how far less dangerous a yorkie would be than the large dog in the post! Now who's contradictive!!
> 
> Whatever the reason a man is dead because of a dog that is illegal to own in this country!! The owner didn't go into the mans garden and attack him the dog did!* Dogs are not robots and have a free will of their own. Instinct is stronger than what theyve been taught.* If the dogs instinct was to go into someone else's garden and attack, just like the owner would be if it was him that did it, the dog should be removed from society!


I'm glad you came along to clarify this. I shall stop going to my training class at once! Waste of money after all. I'll just leave him to sort himself out. He'll just revert to bull-fighting at the first opportunity. :


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

terencesmum said:


> I'm glad you came along to clarify this. I shall stop going to my training class at once! Waste of money after all. I'll just leave him to sort himself out. He'll just revert to bull-fighting at the first opportunity. :


Mine's scared of cows


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Mine's scared of cows


You've overtrained him.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Dogless said:


> RRs are 84.4% so not too bad again!
> 
> I have a small problem in that the numbers of dogs of each breed tested were very different, so the results are not completely unbiased and representative I wouldn't have thought. Interesting viewing though.


I also wonder how they select the dogs. If owners can choose whether to put the dogs up for the testing then they will be training for it and it will mean nothing. When the temperament test was first brought in to obedience there were many 'nasty' dogs that would stand like a rock while the judge did the test (because they were trained to) and then air bite at the judge as he walked away and the dog was released from the stand stay. This was mainly collies but a lot of them were ones that no stranger would dream of touching unless they wanted to get bitten.



snoopydo said:


> The Alsation Story happened in Nuneaton was on our local news today saying that the story of the Dog actually killing the woman had NOT been confirmed.She Told family the evening before that she was not well. post mortom was today.


That makes a lot more sense. If she started fitting or whatever most dogs would get over excited and appear to attack.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> On that list, WTH is a 'Silken Windhound'????
> it sounds like a dog with a lovely coat but a particularly bad fart problem


A greyhound type with a longer, wispy coat. There are Silken Windsprites too, coated whippets.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

I have just thought after reading some of the posts here of "he might of been in his garden...the dogs garden etc". Some reports say the dog lived outside in a kennel and was chained. So either the chain was too long, or it was unchained at the time, or the victim was close to the dog.

Now you would assume if you were chaining a dog outside (which I do not agree with by the way), you would use a chain short enough to stop it venturing into next door while chained. So if this was not the case then the owner is totally to blame.

Sure a dog kept outside and chained is not going to be a happy dog either.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> tbh, if no-one knows the full story...he could have been the nicest old man in the world????
> 
> I do not agree that certain breeds of dogs should be banned, *I would however quite happily ban certain types of people*. Some people can have a dangerous little dog and some people can have a dangerous big dog.
> 
> ...


Oh if only!



Malmum said:


> *This shuoldn't be turned into a "your breed, my breed" slanging match*. If it were a Malamute who bit the old guy I would be just as livid, it wouldn't be MY Malamute would it? So lets not forget it's not a forum members dog eh?
> 
> Fact is that dog regardless of what it was helped lead to the old mans demise, if it were not for that event taking place he'd still be around now. WTF the old guys demeanor has to do with it is beyond my comprehension - he was in his own garden, would anyone feel the same if a thug had decked him under the same circumstances?
> 
> I love dogs, more than many humans I know but I'm not so misguided by my feelings that I can't see common sense and if a Malamute had been the culprit I wouldn't feel everyone was having a go at mine if they thought it should be PTS. I mean that would just be completely ridiculous and a totally irrational way of thinking!


That would be lovely


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Regardless of what actually caused this dear old man's death the dog must be destroyed - no questions asked. How many of our dogs would actually attack a person after escaping into their garden? Even with Flynn the way he is with dogs I feel 100% confident with him and any of my dogs around people. Dogs that go out out their way to bite people are of no use to our society IMO. The owner of this dog is obviously an idiot and couldn't have raised it properly either, not the dogs fault maybe but far too dangerous for any sympathy from me either way. My sympathies lie with the old man and his family.
> 
> The old man most likely ruptured his spleen during the fall he sustained in the attack and perhaps the hospital could have picked it up, side tracked by the leg wound I expect. You would be surprised how many elderly patients don't seem to feel pain like younger one's do and are less likely to complain, probably in shock too. So very very sad that people aren't even safe in their own back gardens these days, utterly disgraceful!
> 
> Some body's, dad, granddad, great granddad - no way for him to leave this Earth, may he rest in peace and hopefully the irresponsible dog owner will serve a prison sentence.


One of the few posts on this thread that have sympathy in the right place and that would not cause the poor gentlemans family a great deal of distress



diablo said:


> tbh , no one knows the full story according to one article old gent was often heard shouting at the dogs , so whose to say he weren`t in some way teasing them / goading them ? you don`t. who in their right mind would refuse to put a fence up if they were so scared of said dogs ?? you wouldn`t , it isn`t rational thinking. i believe there is more to that story yet to come out whether it will i have no idea. BUT , you cannot blame the dogs , what do you expect when there are no boundaries and nothing between said person seperating him from those dogs. whose to say he wasn`t actually in their yard ? we`ve all seen the lies spouted in todays press regarding the german shepherd , so what makes this story so different ? in one article it states that there was an on going argument , i don`t know any dog that wouldn`t defend it`s owner a dog isn`t going to care whether that person is elderly or not , they can only see someone attacking / shouting / call it what you like going in the direction of their master , no one can honestly say when push come to shove they wouldn`t rely on their dog to protect them in certain circumstances.


Maybe he simply did not have the money to put up a fence - not that it was his responsibility to keep some idiots dogs out, it was up to them to have adequate boundaries to keep the dogs in - whatever breed they turn out to be which is not actually relevant to anything.

So if he was a raving lunatic who liked to be in his own garden yelling & screaming then hey ho he should be attacked by someone elses dog and ultimately die? Providing he was in his own garden then he should be entitled to do cart wheels to a brass band if he wanted to. If someone shouted at my dog telling him to shut up I would not deem that to be goading and therefore mean my dog was right to attack someone


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Balto-x said:


> Just a quick question how do people know the dogs were bought up incorrectly?


Good point! 

We are just assuming that aren't we. Flynn was brought up with all the care and love I have given even to my own kids, but if he had accidentally bitten the owner of the cocker the other day it would have made no difference at all would it? People are saying "how do we know the dog was not in it's own garden and the old man was trespassing"  and that we "can't believe all we read in the papers"! Now I would say it's ridiculous comments like that, that make dog haters hate dogs and us all the more. The old man was attacked - doesn't matter where it was and is now dead because of it. Do some dog owners have no pity for anything other than dogs? Are they so blinkered that they cannot just for once say, aggressive dog and needs PTS whatever the reason for the attack? Some people on here begger belief and I sincerely hope the dog haters don't tar us all with the same brush because I can see both sides and this dog was clearly in the wrong, the old man should not be dead because a neighbour owned a dog!

Where has the "he could have been trespassing" come from? Is it a figment of someone's imagination or what?

ETA - I work with many elderly patients and they can be so sweet, true gentlemen most are at this old guys age. They are "old school" brought up in an era where people were polite and considerate and still are even in this awful day and age. That's why I am so angry at some of the statements on here where the dog is excused for killing an elderly gent. If all patients were like these old guys working in the NHS would be a true pleasure!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I also wonder how they select the dogs. If owners can choose whether to put the dogs up for the testing then they will be training for it and it will mean nothing. When the temperament test was first brought in to obedience there were many 'nasty' dogs that would stand like a rock while the judge did the test (because they were trained to) and then air bite at the judge as he walked away and the dog was released from the stand stay. This was mainly collies but a lot of them were ones that no stranger would dream of touching unless they wanted to get bitten.


I was also wondering about this - if, for example, they ask for volunteers from training classes, at shows or advertise in a newspaper etc then the dogs I would think are more likely to pass even if there is no time to train for the occasion as you are more likely to take along a 'steady' dog than your lunatic!. If they pick dogs from a shelter, pound etc then i would think that they would be more likely to fail. I am of course generalising but it would be interesting to know where from and how the subjects were recruited.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Whether the guy was trespassing, in his own garden shouting or what, did he really deserve to die because someone didn't have their dog under sufficient control? And for all we know he could have been out in his garden putting food out for the birds or putting his rubbish in the dustbin or something. What if his grandchildren (if he had any) were out in the garden shouting and screaming and running around, would that be deemed as them goading the dog? As for him putting up a fence, maybe he couldn't afford to? Anyway, why should he have had to pay for fencing to contain someone elses dog? Sure, it might have saved his life but the point is it wasn't his responsibility to keep this dog in its own garden.

RIP old man and my sympathies to his friends and family. Yet another avoidable attack that cost somebody their life.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I wonder what his dying thoughts were and how much pain he was in at that time, so very very sad  poor man and now his family have to come to terms with his death which was so avoidable. Many elderly people are so worried about being a nuisance that they simply put up with things and hope they'll be okay. As for him putting up a fence - does being frail and elderly not count at all in this God awful society? Probably couldn't afford it with his meagre pension!

Lets hope none of us die in similar conditions eh? and if we do lets hope we at least warrant a little sympathy and respect for our relatives left behind. Can't imagine how his family are feeling now, never mind the bl**dy dog!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Just to point out that the victim could of been responsible for that fence, regardless of the other person owning a dog. 

Unless you have happened to see their deeds, then I think it is wrong to assume the dog owner was responsible, or the victim was responsible either.

Then on top of that you could have the situation that who ever was responsible was not either tenant, but a landlord/agency/HA etc.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Maybe he simply did not have the money to put up a fence - not that it was his responsibility to keep some idiots dogs out, it was up to them to have adequate boundaries to keep the dogs in - whatever breed they turn out to be which is not actually relevant to anything.
> 
> So if he was a raving lunatic who liked to be in his own garden yelling & screaming then hey ho he should be attacked by someone elses dog and ultimately die? Providing he was in his own garden then he should be entitled to do cart wheels to a brass band if he wanted to. If someone shouted at my dog telling him to shut up I would not deem that to be goading and therefore mean my dog was right to attack someone


of course theres an element of responsibility to errect a fence if you don`t want someone elses dogs in your garden if the neighbours won`t do it , what on earth is wrong with getting the work done then sending the bill next door ? money don`t even come into play there and shouldn`t have been an issue. had he been an elderly relative of mine i`d have just paid to get it done myself so i had piece of mind they were safe. no , he didn`t deserve to die but according to a report i read this morning the haemorrage was caused by a previous fall and not the dog , so why exactly is the dog being blamed for that ? if that is really the case as i`ve read this morning [because so many reports are saying so many different things] this is yet again another story of people not getting their facts straight before they put their mouths into gear reagarding the circumstances and the type of dogs involved.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I think with the DDA as it is today if you have a dog then it should be your responsibility to fence the garden, regardless of whose side it happens to be on. Not doing so not only puts the neighbour at risk but also your own dog. I know if my elderly neighbours fence was in need of repair I would attend to it, no way would I want her at risk or losing my dog because it may have hurt her in some way. Just knocking her over could result in her death if she fractured a hip, see it often in the hospital - usually the op is such a huge one, shock of it all, chest infection then pneumonia and often no recovery from that. It's not all plain sailing like it is with younger patients. 

When you own a dog it is your responsibility to keep it under control where ever it may be. I would think anyone on here would erect a fence to keep their dog in their garden rather than quibble about whose fence it is and put their dog at risk. Surely that's all part and parcel of responsible dog ownership............isn't it???

At least I hope it is!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Dogless said:


> I was also wondering about this - if, for example, they ask for volunteers from training classes, at shows or advertise in a newspaper etc then the dogs I would think are more likely to pass even if there is no time to train for the occasion as you are more likely to take along a 'steady' dog than your lunatic!. If they pick dogs from a shelter, pound etc then i would think that they would be more likely to fail. I am of course generalising but it would be interesting to know where from and how the subjects were recruited.


They don't select the dogs. It's set up for people who wish to assess the temperament and behaviour of their dogs. It's more akin to someone voluntarily going to a KC GCDS exam. Some info in a working link here: Temperament Testing


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Malmum said:


> When you own a dog it is your responsibility to keep it under control where ever it may be. I would think anyone on here would erect a fence to keep their dog in their garden rather than quibble about whose fence it is and put their dog at risk. Surely that's all part and parcel of responsible dog ownership............isn't it???
> 
> At least I hope it is!


I would agree with you. Keeping my dog safe and others safe from him is my responsibility, not other peoples.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

i really cant believe there is an argument about a fence when a man has died through the fault clearly of a dog and its owner!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

I can't believe people are automatically blaming the death on the dog either, when there is evidence of the gentleman falling over before the dog bite happened. But hey ho...........


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> i really cant believe there is an argument about a fence when a man has died through the fault clearly of a dog and its owner!


but again , how do we know ? according to one report i`ve read this morning it states the elderly man died as a result of a *previous* fall , so how is that the dogs fault if what has been printed is infact true ?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> I can't believe people are automatically blaming the death on the dog either, when there is evidence of the gentleman falling over before the dog bite happened. But hey ho...........


yes but not a great dog anyway to do what he did, hey ho!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Three dogs were apparently seized from the house so you can bet your sweet ass they are not in the best possible surroundings anyway, most likely better off PTS if that recent programme "Dogs on death row" is anything to go by. They must all be of "type" too in order to be taken. Why people have to have multiple risks of dogs being taken off them is unreal in my eyes. I wouldn't want one that looks iffy just in case it could ever be taken, let alone three - assuming they are all the same "breed"!

Even without all the "proper" facts I would err on the side of this old guy.








To me he looks like any other upright member of our society, a vulnerable, little old guy going about his daily chores and bitten by a crap dog! Doesn't look like a tramp, vagrant wandering through someone else's property asking for trouble.

I would also want answers from the hospital but I know how elderly folk don't like making a fuss and would imagine he never mentioned any stomach pain and just got on with it. I am surprised a ruptured spleen didn't cause his death long before six days after the fall and doubt even more that it could have been an injury he sustained before that time. Must have been pretty painful and possibly a slow bleed with a small rupture, shudder to think how he felt.

If it were my dad I would want all the dogs taken away from the owner and never returned, as he obviously shelves responsibility even if only by allowing one of them to stray and def want the biter PTS. The fact he has three makes it even less safe living near him.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

i really dont get it when people defend a violent dog, if a dog has attacked to me there is no excuse, theres no oh maybe he was provoked etc, it doesnt matter, if any dog has violently attacked anyone theres something wrong and there are no excuses.

i cant get over some people blaming the old man for maybe not securing a fence etc, defending a violent dog.

i doubt your excuses would be the same if it was a member of your own family!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> bit an old man!


Fair enough he did, but alot of dogs bite and have caused deaths directly. Malamutes have killed, St Bernards have killed, Yorkies have killed. On the bite side of things, I would put money on the fact I doubt their is one breed that has not bitten. Your breed for example have a high record of biting. And so that it does not seem I am pointing the finger etc, even greyhounds have bitten.

Just to add , my "tell me what he did" comment was aimed towards the fact that people are automatically assuming the dog bite and the mans death are connected when he had previous for falling. Sorry if you were not one of the few automatically connecting the death with the bite.

Despite that fact, it does not make the dog bite any less important etc. It sounds like a fairly average bite from the fact he did not get admitted to hospital but was discharged the same day.

Nor does the cause of death make a difference to the outcome and a man now being dead and missed by his family.

By all accounts this dog lived in the garden, chained up which is no suitable way to keep a dog in my views. As I have hinted at already this is going to effect the dogs behaviour regardless of breed, if it not given that much human interaction, walked etc. Now is it the fault of the dog for not having that interaction etc? Of course not. The blame there is directly with the owner.

I guess the current system does not help. Lets say the eldery gentleman had formally complained about the dog being out in the garden, chained up (most of the day at least, as it does sound like he wasn't when he bit). All the authorities would of done is come around and checked the dog was secure (which he would of been if chained), had shelter (he had a kennel, so was sheltered) and had access to food and water. And maybe of had a word with the owner. Easy things to get away with with minimal effort. So the whole system needs an overhaul. Do I think it will happen? Not anytime soon.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Just to point out, I think my posts are getting misunderstood. The dangers of the written word I guess, or maybe my choice of words. You can not tell how I meant to say them, but if you look back you will see I have "liked" posts from both sides of this thread.

Plus even if my points were meant to be taken the way you seem to think, not once have I got personal. How dare you question my suitability of rehoming a dog etc. Then again maybe you are right I SHOULD OF LET THE OWNER PUT HIM DOWN


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Fair enough he did, but alot of dogs bite and have caused deaths directly. Malamutes have killed, St Bernards have killed, Yorkies have killed. On the bite side of things, I would put money on the fact I doubt their is one breed that has not bitten. Your breed for example have a high record of biting. And so that it does not seem I am pointing the finger etc, even greyhounds have bitten.
> 
> Just to add , my "tell me what he did" comment was aimed towards the fact that people are automatically assuming the dog bite and the mans death are connected when he had previous for falling. Sorry if you were not one of the few automatically connecting the death with the bite.
> 
> ...


excuse me i didnt even mention the breed so there is no need to come at me with this breed stuff, even though it was apparently a banned breed anyway!

i dont know where you get the statistics from so not reliable that they have a high bite record, where?

i am pretty convinced though that rough collies are the worst most violent and aggressive dog now thanks to you and timmy didnt fall down that well, he was pushed in and savaged by lassie!!!!!!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> excuse me i didnt even mention the breed so there is no need to come at me with this breed stuff, even though it was apparently a banned breed anyway!
> 
> i dont know where you get the statistics from so not reliable that they have a high bite record, where?
> 
> i am pretty convinced though that rough collies are the worst most violent and aggressive dog now thanks to you and timmy didnt fall down that well, he was pushed in and savaged by lassie!!!!!!


I deal with dogs that fall under the DDA as well as dog attacks, what are your qualifications?


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog. so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.


i have to disagree with this im afraid ,, a dog cannot be blamed for its actions at the end of the day 1. the illegal dog shouldnt have been here anyway so this is the humans fault for importing and breeding these dogs 2.dogs such as pits are often bought and raised to be agresive and attack as a form of weapon for the irresponsible ownder 3.the hospital should have checked and xrayed for injuries around the abdomen as im sure if u had been attacked by a dog at 80 odd years of age he will have fallen surely? ...Bentley my 4 yr old staffy is the softest dog i no my 2 yr old neice rides on his back! but i am sure in the hands of an iresponsible owner he could quite easily be of different nature.. this is y staffys are so often judged because of the owners who have them just for how they look and to use as a weapon to intimidate even attack on command and it really frustrates me! most dogs can attack whether it be a pit bull or a yorky terrier i believe it depends on nurture not nature. yes the dog shouldnt have attacked and should be humanly euthanised as it is a danger but i feel it unfair that the dog be judged for irresponsibble ownership and it doesnt say whether the old man was taunting the dog or panicked and became threatening to the dog? ...theres always 2 sides to every story and unfortunatly dogs cant speak


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> I deal with dogs that fall under the DDA as well as dog attacks, what are your qualifications?


so where are the statistics that you are referring to? where is the proof that rough collies have a high rate of bites and attacks then?

my qualifications are 26 years in ownership and around the breed. and read what i said, i never stated anything about the breed just the dog!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> i have to disagree with this im afraid ,, a dog cannot be blamed for its actions at the end of the day 1. the illegal dog shouldnt have been here anyway so this is the humans fault for importing and breeding these dogs 2.dogs such as pits are often bought and raised to be agresive and attack as a form of weapon for the irresponsible ownder 3.*the hospital should have checked and xrayed for injuries around the abdomen as im sure if u had been attacked by a dog at 80 odd years of age he will have fallen surely?* ...Bentley my 4 yr old staffy is the softest dog i no my 2 yr old neice rides on his back! but i am sure in the hands of an iresponsible owner he could quite easily be of different nature.. this is y staffys are so often judged because of the owners who have them just for how they look and to use as a weapon to intimidate even attack on command and it really frustrates me! most dogs can attack whether it be a pit bull or a yorky terrier i believe it depends on nurture not nature. yes the dog shouldnt have attacked and should be humanly euthanised as it is a danger but i feel it unfair that the dog be judged for irresponsibble ownership and it doesnt say whether the old man was taunting the dog or panicked and became threatening to the dog? ...theres always 2 sides to every story and unfortunatly dogs cant speak


That isn't standard - diagnostic tests are performed on the basis of the mechanism of injury, observed signs and observed / reported symptoms. If a whole battery of tests were carried out on every person that entered a hospital then it would not only be time consuming and costly, but would also expose patients to unnecessary risks. In this case it does sound tragic that the splenic injury was missed, however we do not know what the patient reported, what his signs and symptoms were or even if tests were proposed and declined. It seems daft to apportion blame when none of us can possibly know what happened.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

With the point that the hospital should of checked him over etc. It depends on what the gentleman reported as hurting etc. I would hazard a guess that many people would get knocked to the ground by a dog launching itself. But you can not think the hospital would check everywhere, i.e check his head "just in case" he knocked it, check his stomach "just in case" etc. If the victim had said "I have a real painful stamach", then you could argue it should of been looked into etc. Then again, I guess dependant on the amount of pain, it could be mistaken for something else such as being winded etc by the attack. Or as already said by others, the man could of been trying to "be strong" and fight the pain not wanting to be a burden etc.

It is for this reason that I have a few times here stated it is wrong to blame the hospital. Plus even liked the posts stating the same from people you appear to think I am disagreeing with some of their posts


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Fair enough he did, but alot of dogs bite and have caused deaths directly. Malamutes have killed, St Bernards have killed, Yorkies have killed. On the bite side of things, I would put money on the fact I doubt their is one breed that has not bitten. Your breed for example have a high record of biting. And so that it does not seem I am pointing the finger etc, even greyhounds have bitten.
> 
> Just to add , my "tell me what he did" comment was aimed towards the fact that people are automatically assuming the dog bite and the mans death are connected when he had previous for falling. Sorry if you were not one of the few automatically connecting the death with the bite.
> 
> ...


A fairly average bite?? thats fine then if it was a member of my family now dead I would be ok if it was only a fairly average bite!

What do you think should happen with the dog then, if we accept that its due to how it was treated what happens now. You can't undo its upbringing so what now


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> so where are the statistics that you are referring to? where is the proof that rough collies have a high rate of bites and attacks then?
> 
> my qualifications are 26 years in ownership and around the breed. and read what i said, i never stated anything about the breed just the dog!


I supplied the evidence in a previous thread on this matter. I refuse to be your personal seach engine 

I meant to edit my post to add the explanation that despite me using your quote, not all of my reply was directed at you. So I apologise for giving the impression I was implying you personally brought up the breed.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> A fairly average bite?? thats fine then if it was a member of my family now dead I would be ok if it was only a fairly average bite!
> 
> What do you think should happen with the dog then, if we accept that its due to how it was treated what happens now. You can't undo its upbringing so what now


His death may be unrelated to the bite.

Regarding your 2nd point. I think the dog should be PTS regardless if the 2 things are related or not. That said I am not implying all dogs who have bitten are PTS, before anyone jumps on me for that as well . Ideally it should be a case by case decision, and not a blanket set of rules that are in place at present.

Are my posts really coming across as someone who thinks the dog should not be PTS? If so that is not what I am aiming to do. Go back to my point on dangers of the written word 

You could argue that the dog could be given a 2nd chance in a new home, sadly the law does not allow this if the dog is of type.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> 3.the hospital should have checked and xrayed for injuries around the abdomen as im sure if u had been attacked by a dog at 80 odd years of age he will have fallen surely?


Hmmm..........you obviously don't work in or know much about NHS procedures do you? Have you any idea how much that would cost? Have you any idea how much in the red the NHS is today?

If absolutely everything was looked at on admission there wouldn't be any money for the NHS to run at all. Also an x ray would show bone fractures not soft tissue, for that he would have needed a CT scan and unless there were any reason to believe he may have had internal bleeding it would not have been done. A CT scan is massively expensive and not done unless signs are there to suggest it needs to be. A drop in blood pressure would have possibly shown cause for concern but as I said in an earlier post if the tear to his spleen was minimal - which it would suggest due to the six day gap in him passing away - his blood pressure was most likely stable.

The NHS is not a bottomless pit and I would think twenty years from now may not be here at all, then we will all have to have health insurance and at last the fantastic work the NHS does will no longer be criticised!

On another note, some one suggested he should have had his fence repaired and given the bill to the dog owner if he couldn't afford it himself. 
Firstly his generation are not likely to do such a scummy thing and secondly who would protect him from an irate neighbour if he did do that? Thirdly what kind of scum gets a worker in to repair a fence then doesn't pay him for his work? Not the way to go about things at all I'm afraid. :nonod:

All very misguided and shows just how little contact posters have with elderly people, so no wonder there isn't much sympathy for him and supposedly more for the dog!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Hmmm..........you obviously don't work in or know much about NHS procedures do you? Have you any idea how much that would cost? Have you any idea how much in the red the NHS is today?
> 
> If absolutely everything was looked at on admission there wouldn't be any money for the NHS to run at all. Also an x ray would show bone fractures not soft tissue, for that he would have needed a CT scan and unless there were any reason to believe he may have had internal bleeding it would not have been done. A CT scan is massively expensive and not done unless signs are there to suggest it needs to be. A drop in blood pressure would have possibly shown cause for concern but as I said in an earlier post if the tear to his spleen was minimal - which it would suggest due to the six day gap in him passing away - his blood pressure was most likely stable.
> 
> The NHS is not a bottomless pit and I would think twenty years from now may not be here at all, then we will all have to have health insurance and at last the fantastic work the NHS does will no longer be criticised!


Exactly what I was saying. I was involved in a major accident where I broke my back. I did remember having cracked my head really hard, but didn't say much about it due to the pain in my back. After I was discharged from hospital and was in rehab I was having some issues with dyspraxia / sudden losses of temper etc and realised that the back of my head was a bizarre shape in one place....the docs said that it had most likely been fractured or very close and that the problems were a lingering effect of a significant head injury.

Was it the hospital's fault that my skull wasn't x-rayed / that I wasn't given a CT or MRI? No, it was mine (and I am a healthcare professional with a good understanding of these things, particularly trauma) as I obviously wasn't exhibiting many signs of a head injury - I had plenty of morphine anyway, so if I was, they would have been masked.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

Malmum said:


> On another note, some one suggested he should have had his fence repaired and given the bill to the dog owner if he couldn't afford it himself.
> Firstly his generation are not likely to do such a scummy thing and secondly who would protect him from an irate neighbour if he did do that? Thirdly what kind of scum gets a worker in to repair a fence then doesn't pay him for his work? Not the way to go about things at all I'm afraid. :nonod:
> 
> All very misguided and shows just how little contact posters have with elderly people, so no wonder there isn't much sympathy for him and supposedly more for the dog!


that would be me.
but the next person would think nothing of presenting a veterinary bill to someone should their pet be injuried by someone elses , but that isn`t considered to be a `scummy` thing is it ? i think people are missing my whole point , for the sake of a fence HUMAN life could have been preserved no one needed to die in the kind of circumstances that have gone to print.
i`m not misguided , i wholly refute that statement , it`s just common sense i`m sorry you don`t view things through the same eyes as me and i do know whats coming next so need to reply:
i could go on and on all day and we`d still be here going round in circles , casting assumtions on how people live in the real world and about the kind of poeple they really are , there are a million and one other things that haven`t been taken into consideration but don`t count on me to point them out


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Hmmm..........you obviously don't work in or know much about NHS procedures do you? Have you any idea how much that would cost? Have you any idea how much in the red the NHS is today?
> 
> If absolutely everything was looked at on admission there wouldn't be any money for the NHS to run at all. Also an x ray would show bone fractures not soft tissue, for that he would have needed a CT scan and unless there were any reason to believe he may have had internal bleeding it would not have been done. A CT scan is massively expensive and not done unless signs are there to suggest it needs to be. A drop in blood pressure would have possibly shown cause for concern but as I said in an earlier post if the tear to his spleen was minimal - which it would suggest due to the six day gap in him passing away - his blood pressure was most likely stable.
> 
> ...


I work with elderly people everyday and care for them all dearly (when they are not driving me mad! :lol: ) and the idea of some ****s dog attacking one of them makes me want to go round there and smash their face in (meeting violence with violence, not good I know, I know but you get my drift) the thought of a dog running into my grandparents garden and attacking them (they only have a fence one side) , I'd want to rip the "owner" to shreds.

I feel very much so for both sides of the story. I am *not *saying "Well the elderly gentleman deserved it, not the dogs fault" or "Well, the elderly gentleman should have put up a fence" (havent read all posts, dont know what happened in regards to the fence.)

But I will say it again and again and again until I'm blue in the face.
*The innocents ALWAYS suffer.*

In no way was it the elderly gentlemans fault, no-one deserves to die like that, fence no fence, whatever. If a dog attacked my grandparents and it was that HA and out of control. I'd want it PTS. The last thing I want is to see innocent humans being savaged in their own back yard and see poor dogs be PTS.

But if the dog chose to attack that man, because *he thought it was the right thing to do*, then yes, have the dog PTS.

I'd love to see REAL justice done and the **** who "owned" the dog *properly *punished, not a "slap on the wrist", £100 fine and 2 weeks later he's got another dog for it to all happen again. A waste of life all round. What a sad situation and the **** can get on with his life, not having to worry about the carnage left behind.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

diablo said:


> but again , how do we know ? according to one report i`ve read this morning it states the elderly man died as a result of a *previous* fall , so how is that the dogs fault if what has been printed is infact true ?


and a ruptured spline was mentioned wasn't it? man, that was a hell of a bite for it to manage that 

and anyway...stop all your squabbling - i have some news to break to you all

i made it through the night, but.....i'm injured  that's right folks - i wasn't safe in my own bed!!

Freddy and Tilly, my ickle kittens, were playing about on the bed - next thing you knew, hong kong paws of fury go flying, and i get caught IN THE EYE!!!! it is now swollen, red and tender :cryin::cryin:

BAN EM!! BAN EM ALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> You're right, it's the aggression rather than the opinion that will get peoples' backs up, there were some really venomous comments & allegations being slung & it was directly aimed at people with certain breeds:nonod:


I totally agree....I really feel for the gent and his family and I think the dog in question has been severly let down by society. Very few dogs are born 'bad' but they have to be shown and taught how to behave and if that doesn't happen they will react on instinct.

Let me a run a senario by you (some of you may know what I'm talking about), is the dog in this story dangerous or on its way to being dangerous.
A nervous and previously beaten dog is in a house with a woman he had met once.
Dog in question is nervous when shouted at, very hand shy, and does not like his neck being touched.
Dog jumped on furniture woman shouted at the dog, dog, nervous backed away but was 'trapped' by the back of sofa. Woman walks over waving her hands at dog to 'swot' him down....dog growls. Woman grabs dog by scruf of his neck and drags him off furniture, dog growls and 'goes' for the woman, only an air snap but could have made contact if she hadn't moved.
Dangerous dog or not?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> Let me a run a senario by you (some of you may know what I'm talking about), is the dog in this story dangerous or on its way to being dangerous.
> A nervous and previously beaten dog is in a house with a woman he had met once.
> Dog in question is nervous when shouted at, very hand shy, and does not like his neck being touched.
> Dog jumped on furniture woman shouted at the dog, dog, nervous backed away but was 'trapped' by the back of sofa. Woman walks over waving her hands at dog to 'swot' him down....dog growls. Woman grabs dog by scruf of his neck and drags him off furniture, dog growls and 'goes' for the woman, only an air snap but could have made contact if she hadn't moved.
> Dangerous dog or not?


Could go either way depending on how this is handled in my opinion. The dog, imo, was not at fault. He was frightened and trapped and felt he had no choice but to defend himself. If the same scenario plays out the same way over and over then this could well turn into a dangerous dog. If however the fears are worked on then the dog could well be turned around and be no more dangerous than another dog. If this happened to me right now I would not consider the dog dangerous, it would just be something we needed to work on and I would blame myself for pushing the dog to where it felt the need to snap.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Could go either way depending on how this is handled in my opinion. The dog, imo, was not at fault. He was frightened and trapped and felt he had no choice but to defend himself. If the same scenario plays out the same way over and over then this could well turn into a dangerous dog. If however the fears are worked on then the dog could well be turned around and be no more dangerous than another dog. If this happened to me right now I would not consider the dog dangerous, it would just be something we needed to work on and I would blame myself for pushing the dog to where it felt the need to snap.


^^^^^^^Decent, sensible hoooman right here!  ^^^^^^^


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

catlover0581 said:


> ^^^^^^^Decent, sensible hoooman right here!  ^^^^^^^


 I've just been described as sensible for probably the first time in my life :lol:


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## x PIXIE x (Feb 9, 2012)

why is the breed relevant in a story? any dog is capable of causing harm if not treated correctly. It just adds to alienizing certain breeds


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am closing this thread now to be checked - there seems to be a lot of name calling and un-necessary argument here.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have cleared this up now as much as I can and apologise for the loss of some seemingly innocuous posts which have been deleted to maintain the continuity of the thread.
Please don't let it descend into the awful name calling or insulting various breeds of dogs again. I realise that it is a very contentious subject and everyone wants to defend their own breed of dog but please do so without the need to insult other members.
If the spiteful comments continue the thread will be closed permanently and further action may be taken against those members who are responsible


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

We all know if it has teeth it can bite (including a baby, nothing worse than feeling how many teeth have come through, and the baby clamps onto your finger eyes become fixed as baby bites down with all its might) 

Personally I believe people who own a powerful breed should be fully aware that one bite from a powerful breed will inflict more damage than other dogs. Like it or not that is a fact. When people bang on about lock jaw that is what they are referring to strong powerful jaws.

I am totally opposed to banning any breed of dog, however dog attacks are becoming a huge problem and rapidly increasing, remember we only hear about attacks by powerful breeds.

imo there needs to be some kind of scheme set up to promote responsible dog ownership.

Fines imposed not threatened when owners allow their dogs off lead on a public highway or poo in the street and not cleaning it up, including fines when a dog is out of control (not dangerously out of control). Non-dog lovers/owners don't appreciate little Fluffy's muddy paws all over their clothes, playing with their children's ball, licking their child's face or icecream, it isn't funny or cute, its a nuisance.

If dogs weren't allowed to get that close to a person there wouldn't be any attacks.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Love dogs as I do I perfectly understand that some people don't and I don't think it's right that they should feel intimidated by our dogs or have to put up with poo on their shoes. There was a name and shame around here some years ago with the local paper naming people who were charged with allowing their dogs to foul the street and not pick it up, they were fined and named but it all got stopped almost as soon as it started. I'm well up for naming and shaming anyone who doesn't pick up and def if their dogs are not on leads in public area's - no matter how good they are.

As you say if dogs weren't allowed to get too close to people and dogs (except parks/woods) then we would all feel safer. The arrogance of some doggie peeps ruin it completely for the rest of us who understand that not everyone likes dogs and finds them irresistible. I remember a time in London when parks were for families and kids and just dedicated fields were for off lead dogs but now it's a God given right for dogs to just roam about anywhere and people just have to accept it - wrong IMO they should have their own fields and not be allowed everywhere. At least our beaches are dog free for a certain amount of time a year.

Miserable old goat I am but if there were certain rules maybe people wouldn't be so anti dog.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Blitz said:


> *I am fed up with people on here always blaming someone other than the dog.* so the police are over reacting are they - for heavens sake. A bloke had 3, presumably illegal, dogs, one escapes, goes into a garden and attacks someone causing injuries he later dies of - and it is not the dogs fault! I know we are dog lovers on here but the fact is there are huge amounts of dogs out there that just are not good members of our society and have to be removed BEFORE they kill someone.
> Why is it the hospital's fault. Someone goes in with an injured leg so they xray their spleen - not a very likely scenario is it.
> 
> *Every dog owner is going to have to suffer for this - it is getting really out of hand and dogs are not going to be acceptable - no wonder non dog people are getting so scared of dogs.*


I totally agree with this and as a dog lover even I have pangs of dislike toward some dogs and their owners. When a dog of mine was killed by another I had nothing but hate for that dog regardless if it were it's owners fault. That is what happens when something kills someone you love, you don't always rationalise and think clearly.

All of our dogs will be tarred with the same brush if something isn't done, if some kind of restriction and control isn't put on the owners of dogs and make them realise that humans must come first regardless of how we feel about that. I would choose animals over humans any day of the week but I'm not blinkered enough to even begin to believe that that's the right attitude, it's just mine and I know the vast majority of people won't agree with me.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> You will be surprised at what breeds are top of the list for deaths.
> 
> Some what related have you seen what breeds are banned or restricted in the US? Breeds on the list include St Bernards, Pugs, Otterhounds, Newfoundlands, and Golden Retrievers. They are all there for a reason.


There are some very interesting breeds on that list. 
Having looked into owning Otterhounds I am not suprised they are restricted in some places. They howl/sing constantly making it difficult to keep them around neighbours. The problem with a lot of this stuff is it never tells the whole story.There is an implication that they have been banned or restricted for agressive behaviour. 
It is also interesting that some breeds are permitted I see some information and think that some protective breeds do seem to need some monitoring as to who breeds them and who the puppies are given to and yet in some places there is potential for anyone to breed or own them. 
With all the headlines in this post I am always suprised when I see how dogs are treated and the stories I have heard of ownership that more dogs regardless of breed don't attack people. Just today I saw a little girl about 7 running down the road screaming her head off (playing not in pain) holding a dog lead with a lhasa apso. No matter what the breed no parent should have given her the dog to take out on her own and screaming around a dog that was breed to protect just seems stupid. There doesn't seem a clear answer but it is shocking everyday how amazingly tolerant and non aggresive many dogs can be. The number of dogs tested never seems to come into it either. My breed passed 100% but it was tested on two dogs??!!!! :001_rolleyes:


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## lily74 (Jan 13, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> Depends what you mean by "Bad". If you accept that "bad" could mean aggressive, reactive, with a low trigger threshold, nothing obvious in the way of warnings, and lack of self control, then I would say that some of them are born that way. For a dog bred for fighting, these traits would be a positive bonus, and the selection for breeding in fighting dogs would tend to promulgate such animals.
> 
> I think some people are born bad too. Psychpaths that just view other people as objects, for instance. Why should dogs be immune from the same things that can go wrong in mind/brain development? I see far too much 'innocent babies' on this forum, it's sentimentality at its worst.


I agree, it's not just how the dogs are brought up, it can be a breed trait coming out, if a certain breed has been bred to fight or chase prey it may come out in their personality.

My sister has a dog that's very dog aggressive and he has been brought up very well , socialised around other dogs, and people and one day he just turned and bit a dog on it's nose drawing blood.


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## lily74 (Jan 13, 2012)

cbrookman said:


> Yes but for the very reasons I stated the incidence of deaths from small dog attacks is lower, yet there is probably a greater incidence rate of attacks by small dogs on children, but the damage they inflict although disfiguring is far less likely to be life threatening and so doesn't make the news.


Very true my son was bitten in the face by a small JR had this JR had been a bigger dog like a GSD or a Rottie the damage would have possibly disfigured him as he was only three at the time and the dog showed no aggression prior to the attack.

I heard a story of a young girl mauled by a cocker s , had it been more powerful with larger jaws she may have died as it would have more leverage to pierce major organs


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