# Malaysian official: God made animals for testing



## testmg80 (Jul 28, 2008)

*Now this is a really controversal article, I don't know why they couldn't use convicted felons instead. They're a waste anyway.*

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia -- A Malaysian government official defended an Indian company's plans to build an animal testing medicine lab in his state, saying Monday that God created monkeys and rats for experiments to benefit humans.

The plans by India's Vivo BioTech Ltd. to set up a biotechnology center in southern Malacca state has come under fire by activists because it will conduct tests on dogs and primates to make medicines. The activists say Malaysia has no regulations on animal research, which could lead to test subjects being abused.

But Malacca Chief Minister Mohamad Ali Rustam said the lab had received state approval, and animal testing was necessary to make drugs. The project is still in the planning phase.

"God created animals for the benefits of human beings. That's why he created rats and monkeys ... We cannot test on human beings," he told The Associated Press. "This is the way it has to be. God created monkeys, and some have to be tested."

He said Malaysian agencies, such as the wildlife department, could monitor that the animals were not abused and proper procedures followed. He said eating animals could also be seen as cruel, and yet it was widely accepted.

Vivo inked a 450 million ringgit ($141 million) joint-venture deal in January to build the biotechnology center, including laboratories where trial medicines will be tested on animals. Its partners are state government-owned Melaka Biotech Holdings and local firm Vanguard Creative Technologies.

Malaysia's Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals slammed Mohamad Ali's statement, saying it had not been scientifically proven that animal testing was necessary to develop medicine.

"Our primates will be snatched from the forests to be tested for what? Animal testing really leads to nowhere," group representative Christine Chin-Radford said Monday.

"We are not confident at all that ... their welfare will be looked at properly. We are concerned about this exportation of cruelty to Malaysia," Chin-Radford said.

SPCA, together with European animal rights groups, submitted a protest letter to the government last month, urging it to halt the project. Chin-Radford said animal cruelty is against Malaysian law, and there are no separate guidelines to govern the treatment of test animals.

Animal rights activists say companies are increasingly outsourcing animal testing to Asia, where regulations are more lax and costs are lower than in the West. India also has strict rules concerning animal testing, Chin-Radford said.

Vivo has said previously it may import beagles from Holland and try to obtain domestic primates for testing.

Last year, a French pharmaceutical research company proposed building an animal testing laboratory in southern Johor state using imported macaques, but the project was suspended amid an outcry from environmental groups.

Malaysian official: God made animals for testing


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Totally agree with you
Some people use their religion as an excuse for anything & twist it to suit their purpose


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

God this p*sses me off


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

testmg80 said:


> *Now this is a really controversal article, I don't know why they couldn't use convicted felons instead. They're a waste anyway.*


i hope that was a joke? :huh: here in the USA, land of the not-so-free and home of the wage-slave, 
we ALREADY * DO and have for many decades, tested on prisoners. 
and in case U have not already guessed, its an ugly business.

* U cannot get "informed consent" from someone who is told that PARTICIPATION "might" sway the parole board - 
or the prisoner who is told that _if they do not volunteer, they will lose some privileges - _ losing privileges might not 
sound like much, but that may include once-weekly showers, time in the gym (out of ones 8 x 8 cell), and more - 
every privilege is priceless, and thats intimidation + blackmail.

* prisoners have no recourse whatever if they are hurt, long-term scarred, they get no PAIN meds because it might screw-up 
the data-set, they have no medical claims cuz no matter what happened, THEY * VOLUNTEERED - and waived rights.

seeing men with a 2 to 4-inch burn, 2nd-degree from some skin preparation is not unusual - and they cannot be treated; 
they have to live with whatever side-FX till the study is DONE, or quit - and quitting goes in their file - *forever.*

the prison, of course, is PAID per prisoner - thats why they want participants. like i said... 
its a really ugly bizness. :thumbdown:

all my best, 
--- terry


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

leashedForLife said:


> like i said...
> its a really ugly bizness. :thumbdown:
> 
> all my best,
> --- terry


Not so nice for the animals either - and they DON'T give their consent.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Guinevere13 said:


> Not so nice for the animals either - and they DON'T give their consent.


hey, gwen! :--) 
i realize that - but the prisoners don;t really, either. they do it because it is presented as a *U better do it, or else...* - which is not a choice.

i am not *supporting* animal-testing per se - i am saying using prisoners leads to flagrant abuse of its own. 
all my best, 
--- terry


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

In this day and age with all the technology we have you would think we would be way past all this animal/human testing anyway. I wish they would yank their fingers out of their bottoms, get rid of their God complex and get on with using the technology available instead of torturing their fellow creatures.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Guinevere13 said:


> In this day and age with all the technology we have you would think we would be way past all this animal/human testing anyway. I wish they would yank their fingers out of their bottoms, get rid of their God complex and get on with using the technology available instead of torturing their fellow creatures.


:thumbup: exactly


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Guinevere13 said:


> I wish they would get rid of their God complex.


It makes me wonder how long _'modern man' _will continue to cling to and hide behind a superstition?
The most only require a God when a family member falls ill because they have no faith in the doctors or surgeons skills, and the few who drape themselves in the hallowed cloth of religion are the very individuals who make this world a dangerous place to live in.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Zaros said:


> It makes me wonder how long _'modern man' _will continue to cling to and hide behind a superstition?
> The most only require a God when a family member falls ill because they have no faith in the doctors or surgeons skills, and the few who drape themselves in the hallowed cloth of religion are the very individuals who make this world a dangerous place to live in.


Lol not all religious peeps are over the top  I have beliefs and nature or man is at no threat from me pmsl................except from been completely annoyed outta there brains :scared: :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Guinevere13 said:



Not so nice for the animals either - and they DON'T give their consent.

Click to expand...

Totaly agree with you.



leashedForLife said:



i hope that was a joke? :huh: here in the USA, land of the not-so-free and home of the wage-slave, 
we ALREADY * DO and have for many decades, tested on prisoners. 
and in case U have not already guessed, its an ugly business.

* U cannot get "informed consent" from someone who is told that PARTICIPATION "might" sway the parole board - 
or the prisoner who is told that if they do not volunteer, they will lose some privileges -  losing privileges might not 
sound like much, but that may include once-weekly showers, time in the gym (out of ones 8 x 8 cell), and more - 
every privilege is priceless, and thats intimidation + blackmail.

* prisoners have no recourse whatever if they are hurt, long-term scarred, they get no PAIN meds because it might screw-up 
the data-set, they have no medical claims cuz no matter what happened, THEY * VOLUNTEERED - and waived rights.

seeing men with a 2 to 4-inch burn, 2nd-degree from some skin preparation is not unusual - and they cannot be treated; 
they have to live with whatever side-FX till the study is DONE, or quit - and quitting goes in their file - forever.

the prison, of course, is PAID per prisoner - thats why they want participants. like i said... 
its a really ugly bizness. :thumbdown:

all my best, 
--- terry

Click to expand...

But the prisoners still have a choice,they may not like it but then prisons shouldn't be a place for holidays.*


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *But the prisoners still have a choice... *


*as i have explained in a half-dozen ways already, janice - 
no one who is being blackmailed by people who can literally make life a living H*** if the person  (in a moment 
of insane resistance or ignorant optimism - that this really IS an option)  says No. 

CHOICE + *informed consent* is always legally defined as freely given, not compelled.*

ta, 
--- terry

PS - just in case U are unfamiliar with the level of brutality in Merikan prisons, there is a long broad flight of stone-steps in Lewisberg Penitentiary; more than one prisoner has *accidentally* fallen down them during an escorted transfer, with their hands shackled behind their backs.

can U say *head injuries*?

prisoners who were ONCE on heroin (which withdrawal can be miserable, but not lethal) are put on *methodone* - 
look up the symptoms of withdrwal, which can KILL. 
this is another means of control for the guards; they know when U are due for Ur shot, and if U p*ss them off, they let U wait... 
and wait... until U are crawling on all 4s sobbing around the floor of Ur cell, having vomited until now it is just dry-heaves, 
and unable to walk. 
THEN... they unlock the door, and U crawl to the infirmary. 
or if U are lucky + the guard compassionate (ha-ha), they loftily allow 2 friends to hoist U by the armpits, to get U there faster.

do U think U will deny the guard ANYthing after that?

oh, yeah - and don;t forget how many prisoners are actually innocent. 
Google *the innocence project*.

have a nice day.  IMO even the guilty deserve to have a CHOICE. ** U know - the kind with more than One Answer. **


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## serpentseye (Feb 20, 2010)

i'll tell you what god made - a mistake! he should of never created humans. we are disgraceful and should never have existed. WE should be the ones being culled and neutered! the world would be much better off if we were.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

leashedForLife said:


> *as i have explained in a half-dozen ways already, janice -
> no one who is being blackmailed by people who can literally make life a living H*** if the person  (in a moment
> of insane resistance or ignorant optimism - that this really IS an option)  says No.
> 
> ...


*Erm can you repeat that in easy terms please.*


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Erm can you repeat that in easy terms please.*


*No.  ta, 
--- terry

*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Erm can you repeat that in easy terms please.*





leashedForLife said:


> *No.  ta,
> --- terry
> 
> *


What he's saying Janice is the poor little prisoners (who of course have have never done anyone any harm  ) are given methadone instead of the heroin they are addicted to by the nasty prison doctors who are very meanly trying to detox them. Then the nasty prison guards withold their methadone until the poor, ill-treated, nice little prisoners will sign up to the drugs testing program.

So the poor little prisoners get nasty burns and even nastier side effects from the drugs they are testing and Terry thinks this is wrong. He thinks it is far better to make animals suffer this sort of thing than the poor little prisoners.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> What he's saying Janice is the poor little prisoners... are given methadone instead of the heroin they are addicted to by the nasty prison doctors who are very meanly trying to detox them.


i did not say that, weaver -

i said that *methadone* is an even-more dangerous addiction than heroin to GET * OFF, 
and (heres the new bit - careful, now) *U could skip the $$ and the danger of methadone, by --- 
getting prisoners OFF heroin, and NOT giving them methadone as a new addiction to replace the old.*

think of the $$$ to be saved. :thumbup: then think of those poor guards - losing one of their all-time best 
coercive hands-free, no-bruises, no-scars torture methods. awww... :nonod: the poor fellas...

they will think of something else.  no worries... but they would lose ONE tactic.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

from  Methadone / Opiate withdrawal by Dr. David Arneson, NMD; March 21, 2005



> *bold added - * ALL ellipses ( ... ) are in the original.
> EXCERPT -
> 
> _Methadone is one of the most physically-dependent medications invented in the 20th century.
> ...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> What he's saying Janice is the poor little prisoners (who of course have have never done anyone any harm  ) are given methadone instead of the heroin they are addicted to by the nasty prison doctors who are very meanly trying to detox them. Then the nasty prison guards withold their methadone until the poor, ill-treated, nice little prisoners will sign up to the drugs testing program.
> 
> So the poor little prisoners get nasty burns and even nastier side effects from the drugs they are testing and Terry thinks this is wrong. He thinks it is far better to make animals suffer this sort of thing than the poor little prisoners.


*Thankyou for clearing that up for me.I still say then, test on the prisoners and not animals.I'm sick of keeping low lives in prisons.:thumbup:*


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> He thinks it is far better to make animals suffer this sort of thing than the poor little prisoners.


i did not say that either, weaver - 


leashedForLife said:


> i am not *supporting* animal-testing per se - i am saying using prisoners leads to flagrant abuse of its own.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> i did not say that, weaver -
> 
> i said that *methadone* is an even-more dangerous addiction than heroin to GET * OFF,
> and (heres the new bit - careful, now) *U could skip the $$ and the danger of methadone, by ---
> ...


I'm all for the guards having a torture method to be honest - my feeling is that people who refuse to live by the rules of society (ie the criminals) should no longer have any rights in that society. So the guards can torture away, and drugs firms can test away to their hearts' content!

Re methadone itself - you can quote things you've read on the internet until it's coming out of your ears, but perhaps before we go any further I ought to mention that I am a pharmacy technician and every Wednesday and every other Monday night I work in a pharmacy that deals with over 100 addicts. We work closely with the local drug rehabilitation services and whilst there are some addicts who will never be helped no matter what they are given, we have a great deal of success in people having daily supervised decreasing doses of Methadone. The volumes go from amazing amounts like 200ml per day, down to 1ml every other day, until it is stopped completely. Yes, methadone withdrawal is not nice, but done this way the effects are minimal. And the fact that the effects of Methadone last longer in the system means it is more manageable that other opiate withdrawals. It means that addicts can have one supervised dose a day, rather than the several they would have to have on other opiates, which in turn means that they stick to the program - a) it's easier to get to the pharmacy once a day than several times a day and b) they have a lower risk of experiencing low blood opiate levels and being tempted to buy some on the street. We do use other drugs such as Subutex and Suboxone, but methadone is the mainstay.

I presume the reasons above are what is really behind prisoners in your country being given methadone instead of diamorphine, and then being withdrawn from the methadone, despite the greater cost in your country of methadone.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm all for the guards having a torture method to be honest - my feeling is that people who refuse to live by the rules of society (ie the criminals) should no longer have any rights in that society. So the guards can torture away, and drugs firms can test away to their hearts' content!
> 
> Re methadone itself - you can quote things you've read on the internet until it's coming out of your ears, but perhaps before we go any further I ought to mention that I am a pharmacy technician and every Wednesday and every other Monday night I work in a pharmacy that deals with over 100 addicts. We work closely with the local drug rehabilitation services and whilst there are some addicts who will never be helped no matter what they are given, we have a great deal of success in people having daily supervised decreasing doses of Methadone. The volumes go from amazing amounts like 200ml per day, down to 1ml every other day, until it is stopped completely. Yes, methadone withdrawal is not nice, but done this way the effects are minimal. And the fact that the effects of Methadone last longer in the system means it is more manageable that other opiate withdrawals. It means that addicts can have one supervised dose a day, rather than the several they would have to have on other opiates, which in turn means that they stick to the program - a) it's easier to get to the pharmacy once a day than several times a day and b) they have a lower risk of experiencing low blood opiate levels and being tempted to buy some on the street. We do use other drugs such as Subutex and Suboxone, but methadone is the mainstay.
> 
> I presume the reasons above are what is really behind prisoners in your country being given methadone instead of diamorphine, and then being withdrawn from the methadone, despite the greater cost in your country of methadone.


*Great post *


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm all for the guards having a torture method to be honest - my feeling is that people who refuse to live by the rules of society (ie the criminals) should no longer have any rights in that society. So the guards can torture away, and drugs firms can test away to their hearts' content!


do U also believe in the police right to enter premises without a warrant, take persons without a charge, and torture confessions? 
(or what the authorities would like to believe is a confession - 
after all, under torture the victim tells the interrogator anything that the victim thinks will stop the torture.)

do U disregard other constitutional and human rights violations?

then volunteer for the NSA or CIA as an overseas operator - 
From logistics to turning a blind eye: Europe's role in terror abductions | World news | The Guardian 
U can take wanted persons off the streets for extraction to be tortured without arrest, in clandestine locations. 
they would love U. if U are lucky, maybe they will let U waterboard a suspect!... oooh, what a treat. 
other people can take up knitting + dog-agility; U can learn to torture in Ur spare time. 


Spellweaver said:


> I presume (that) is really (why) prisoners in your country (are) given methadone... and then being withdrawn from the methadone, despite the greater cost in your country of methadone.


they are *not* taken off methadone - they are on it as maintenance, i.e. indefinitely - lifelong. 
many are released still on methadone at high doses, but now with no source for the meds that they can afford - 
a prescription is not a voucher for pills, its only a legal permission. *U still have to buy them - with no job, 
and poor prospects of ever getting one.*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> do U also believe in the police right to enter premises without a warrant, take persons without a charge, and torture confessions?


No, why would you assume that from my last post? I said that people who do not abide by society's rules should have no rights within that society. The scenario you paint above talks about people who are abiding by society's rules, not criminals who have deliberately decided not to live by society's rules.



leashedForLife said:


> they are *not* taken off methadone - they are on it as maintenance, i.e. indefinitely - lifelong.
> many are released still on methadone at high doses, but now with no source for the meds that they can afford -
> a prescription is not a voucher for pills, its only a legal permission. *U still have to buy them - with no job,
> and poor prospects of ever getting one.*


It's about time the USA sorted out their health service then. We have the NHS here - the only addicts who pay for their treatment are the ones who are recovered enough to be holding down jobs in which they are earning enough to make sure they are not receiving social security benefits. Sounds as if we are a much more caring society in the UK.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> The scenario you paint above talks about people who are abiding by society's rules, not criminals who have deliberately decided not to live by society's rules.


no, weaver - that is not true. 
the *abductees in extra-ordinary rendition* are merely suspects, and that is why there is such a dreadful problem 
with arresting them - they do not have enuf-evidence for an arrest warrant. 
:blink: and all this guff about civil rights and so on, really makes this so much more complicated than the CIA or NSA, etc, would prefer.

U also presume that everyone in a jail is guilty as charged. 
The Innocence Project - Home

Amazon.com: Prisoner Without a Name, Cell Without a Number: Jacobo Timerman:

Amazon.com: Mothers of the Disappeared (9780896083707): Jo Fisher:

Amazon.com: The Trauma of Psychological Torture (Disaster and Trauma Psychology) (9780313345142): Almerindo E. Ojeda: Books

Amazon.com: Stripping Bare the Body: Politics Violence War (9781568584133): Mark Danner: Books

Amazon.com: Truck of Fools: A Testimonio of Torture and Recovery (9780826514646): Carlos Liscano: Books

plenty of innocent ppl are in jails - all over the world; children are born to incarcerated women in India, who are the result 
of rape by guards, or of desperate barter for food - Indian prisoners get almost nothing from the authorities, 
their families are supposed to provide for them. 
often they are convicted because they are simply poor, and cannot afford a decent lawyer... 
or because they are inconveniently loud and politically uncomfortable, to someone who has more strings to pull.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> no, weaver - that is not true.
> the *abductees in extra-ordinary rendition* are merely suspects, and that is why there is such a dreadful problem
> with arresting them - they do not have enuf-evidence for an arrest warrant.
> :blink: and all this guff about civil rights and so on, really makes this so much more complicated than the CIA or NSA, etc, would prefer.
> ...


*Why would you keep referring back to such examples when Spellweaver CLEARLY stated that her views are regarding CRIMINALS and not cases of suspected or innocent people? I agree our justice system along with the rest of the world's needs a hell of a shake-up so as innocent/suspected people are not treated like this. BUT in cases where it has been proven without doubt that a person is guilty of certain crimes such as Paedophiles....In my opinion they can do all the testing they like on scum like that...give the animals a break who are ALWAYS innocent.*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> no, weaver - that is not true.
> the *abductees in extra-ordinary rendition* are merely suspects, and that is why there is such a dreadful problem
> with arresting them - they do not have enuf-evidence for an arrest warrant.
> :blink: and all this guff about civil rights and so on, really makes this so much more complicated than the CIA or NSA, etc, would prefer.
> ...


:Yawn: :bored: :Yawn: :bored: :Yawn:

More things you've read on the internet. Just for once I'd like to see you have some opinions of your own, other than merely mass quote things you have read.

:Yawn: :bored: :Yawn: :bored: :Yawn:

None of this is relevant. We were talking about criminals in the USA, not in any other countries around the world. (Unless of course you feel your own country does things like rape women in jails, or convict people simply because they are poor, or put people in prison becaue they do not agree with their political views). And if they do, your latest boring list of quotes from the internet are still irrelevant because my statement was that people who choose not to live by society's rules forgo their rights within that society. If people are incarcerated for any other reason, then my statement would not apply to them.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i HAVE read several of those books, weaver - 
which was how i knew what to look for. i was also a member of Amnesty International, so i also know some facts - 
about jails, politics, guilt, punishment, rights, and so on. 


Spellweaver said:


> b]bold added - [/b]
> 
> (Unless of course you feel your own country does things like rape women in jails, or convict people simply because they are poor, or put people in prison becaue they do not agree with their political views). ...my statement was that people who choose not to live by society's rules forgo their rights within that society. *If people are incarcerated for any other reason, then my statement would not apply to them.*


yes, women get raped in US-jails. 
yes, ppl with lousy lawyers who are innocent get convicted - in the USA. 
_what do U think the INNOCENCE * PROJECT is about? _

of course US-jails have political prisoners - what, U think democracies are exempt? 
Britain has no political prisoners? not one? 
what a charmingly simple world U live in - only bad people are ever punished, and bad people have no rights at all.

if there are innocent prisoners [and as the Innocence Project has repeatedly proven more than 100 times, there are], 
then even by Ur (extremely loose and woefully retributive) standards, 
** they should not be medical Guinea-pigs. **

have a nice life, in a black and white world of purest-innocence + utter-evil, 
--- terry


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> i HAVE read several of those books, weaver -
> which was how i knew what to look for. i was also a member of Amnesty International, so i also know some facts -
> about jails, politics, guilt, punishment, rights, and so on.
> 
> ...


The more you post, the more glad I am I do not live in the USA.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> The more you post, the more glad I am I do not live in the USA.


*:lol::lol::lol: You and me both..What a great advert for the USA.:lol:*


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