# Help? Learning to look after a Harvest Mouse



## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi,

I'm Aaryn & a month ago one of my sister's cat 'presents' beat the odds to become the newest member of the family.

I have little or no experience looking after small cute things and would really appreciate some experienced guidance, to compliment my own www research. 

I'm 98% sure it's a juvenile harvest mouse. Old enough to eat solids, but not old enough to have the white telltale underbelly.

We'd have released it back into the wild, but there's something up with its leg, Don't know if it was caused by the cat or if it's the reason the cat caught it, but based upon the distinct improvements noted so far, I strongly suspect mobility issues were cat induced 

Over the past month Sarah (actual gender unknown) has graduated from a shoebox, through a tiny, pink cage to a fab new Habitrail Ovo Dwarf Hamster Habitat. 

'She' can't handle vertical climbing at the moment, but I'm hoping the tubing will help her build climbing confidence gradually.

Any ideas for helping build 'her' vertical exploring abilities within the Ovo habitat would be brilliant from folks who also have Harvest mice and are familiar with their unique brand of mousiness.

xx Aaryn


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

Thats awesome. We had a 1 eyed old degu and too help her climb we strung twisted jeans and cloths so she wouldnt have to stretch . And we hung the hammock low so it felt safe.


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

hi jarhead (great name),

thanks for your words of support.

This is a pic of her new home Habitrail OVO - Products

I'm worried she's not taking to it -- or I'm suffering from chronic impatience -- as it's only the end of her 2nd day in it. She spends much of her time hidden in her bedroom (the travel sphere with the handle), chewing & arranging her loo roll bedding in and around the loo roll tube. I figured familiar smells would comfort her, so I've just transferred it as is from the old cage.

She like munching in her food den. I've already discovered she likes mixed bird seed (adores millet), strawberries, red grapes. Yesterday we added blueberries, those honey seed rings and bread to the 'mouse likes' list.

But she also spends a LOT of time just sitting around in the left top corner of the tubing  Sometimes she'll scamper down the tubes to the water bottle and peak into the big dome, but she's only gone into the dome once to explore for a few seconds.

I put all her old cage sawdust in there, but she just rushed across the dome to the other side and into the tubing. I added some millet to temp her to stay in the dome and learn it's safe. Nope. This afternoon I added loads of straw so she has stuff to hide her movement. Now she won't even rush across. She'll just look in from time to time, before bogging off up to the top corner again :huh:

Maybe harvest mice don't like straw?

I've got lots of add-on goodies on the way (2 more dens, mini maze etc...), but I really need to figure out how to make the dome area feel safe, welcoming & fun or she'll end up living in 3 smallish den spheres and 2ft of tubing :crying:

... and I thought keeping fish was stressful :scared:

What little critters call your place home, jarhead?


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

Dont know about straw. Sawdust covered by straw we used for dwsrf hamsters gerbil and degu might be too bis try sawdust or bedding the papery suff. I heard on the site cotton rull stuff can gets caught on limbs I read on this site.

Id try puttig food and bed stuff in the domb till she gets used to it. We dangled ice crem wafers for our hamster. Feed treats and lots of good loving when in the big dome. 

Jarhead called because hes an empty vessel waiting to be filed. We had a ****** tube leading to the top of his house. We gave him a hazelnut and he tried to bury it there. It rolled Jarhead followed found a nut burries it in the tube. Nut rolls out. 6 times.

Jarhead is a degu he was found on the streets and brought to the vets. Theycalled us in as just lost old 118 and 117 was alone. Both 118 till he lost eye and tail end.Now no 117. So intruducing 3 Baby boys. Week 1 good so far


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## purple_x (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm afraid to say that the habitrail is not suitable for any animal as a permanent cage. I would imagine she's bored in there.
Even 1 little mouse would need quite alot of room.
In the wild they would have had all the space they wanted.

Best thing to do would be to get a large cage/tank/bin cage, fill it with deep substrate (please dont use sawdust as this can cause respitory problems) so the mouse can dig it's own tunnels.
Then add lots of toys, hammocks, things to climb on and a wheel.

My mice are bedded on megazorb and have shredded toilet paper as bedding. They also have hay and they use this when making their tunnels.

You also have to remember that she's a wild mouse so she may never be tame or want to play like a domestic mouse does. And may behave differently as she's had to live very differently in the wild.


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

purple_x said:


> I'm afraid to say that the habitrail is not suitable for any animal as a permanent cage. I would imagine she's bored in there.


Thank you for your help. I'm hoping that a few more weeks her leg will be back to 100% and she can go home to her family in the wild

My current challenge was to find portable short-term set up - that can simulate the nest area being 15cm off the 'ground', help build climbing confidence AND be moved to different quiet places while big DIY projects are going on. I don't think I'd win any awards for setting up a nice big stationery tank for her, only to frighten her senseless with all the drilling, wallpaper stripping, wall removing etc... or poison her with fumes from paint and varnish stripper 

If she does stay with me permanently, I think you're so very right. On it's own it's completely inadequate. But could well if the tubing led into a permanent vivarium? set-up once the noise and fumes in my lounge are history.



purple_x said:


> Best thing to do would be to get a large cage/tank/bin cage, fill it with deep substrate (please dont use sawdust as this can cause respitory problems) so the mouse can dig it's own tunnels.
> Then add lots of toys, hammocks, things to climb on and a wheel.


That's brilliant, thank you! Sawdust is out tomorrow hmy:. I'll look up megazorb. I've read lots about climbing so far, but no sources mention if harvest mice like digging and burrowing, their nests being inches above ground. I'll do some more research, maybe with one of the places that manages a harvest mouse release programme. If there's a local one she may be better off in their expert care.



purple_x said:


> You also have to remember that she's a wild mouse so she may never be tame or want to play like a domestic mouse does. And may behave differently as she's had to live very differently in the wild.


Your right... I keep having to remind myself of that because she's soo friendly (for a wild thing), no biting or nipping, climbing on my hands and snuggling in my hair, taking stuff I offer her that she's curious about. But she hates to be stroked or petted in any way. She happy to make her own way onto my palm (in her own time) but gets super-angry about being 'picked up'.

I'll get some photos of her on here as soon as. 

I'm really glad I signed up here as I bought some cotton wool looking bedding for her and found out just in time from other posts just how dangerous it can be, before giving her any. I was stunned cos it says it's safe on the packaging "made of natural, chewable fibers" bla bla bla :cursing:

There's clearly a LOT of stuff being sold as 'suitable' for pets which isn't -- like sawdust!  Being able to come here and run my decisions past you guys has be a big de-stressor for me (that and listening to Bird Radio so sarah can a least hear wildlife, while she's recuperating  )


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Hi

I have a pet harvest mouse, though not one from the wild. Mine is lovely and tame, will happily come out to see me and let me hold him, loves being petted, and keeps me entertained for ages watching him run around. They don't bite, they're a bit like roborovski hamsters in that sense, they're super fast but don't bite nor even nip. Unlike pet mice, one really big advantage is harvest mice don't smell, so they don't need cleaning out very often. In fact only clean her out every 4 months (no, really!) as having their home changed regurlarly stresses them out big time. I cannot stress enough you MUST keep her in very secure cage, with extremely tiny mesh. Mine is in a fishtank with a fine mesh lid (like a perfecto small animal home). I would never consider housing one in a plastic cage of any sort, as they can chew their way out. Any type of bar cage is out also, as they can squeeze out of the tiniest gaps (and I mean tiny), can climb extremely well and are very quick. Because of their tiny size, they are too delicate to grab at like a hamster so it she escapes, you may have a devil of a job to catch her, in fact seeing as she is 'wild' it might be near impossible. They are too dainty and light weight to use a hamster bottle, so you have to use a small dish,e.g a mouse food bowl, and put a VERY small amount of water in it. Too much water and they can drown. Harvest mice have to eat and drink almost continiously, their small size and high energy mean they have a very fast metabolism, and need constant food/water. They love to climb and hide , so I give mine washed, cleaned fruit branches, straw nesting things you can buy at a petstore, loads of toilet/kitchen roll tubes, bits of rope to climb, a tennis ball with a hole cut out of it, and those little mouse treelogs you can buy to name a few. They also like a nice decent amout of bedding (about 4-5 inches) as they like to dig and hide in it. A harvest mouse kept on it's own generally won't make a typical nest out of straw up off the ground, they need to be in a group to 'trigger' that instinct off. Mine digs holes under his bedding and sleeps there, He has never even attempted to build a nest, even though he has the stuff to do it with, so don't be worried if yours doesn't seem to build anything. I use aubiose or megazorb, and if I can get it shredded cardboard for bedding, and also give some of the rabbits hay which he will eat and run around in. Don't give her a wheel, even the smallest one will put an enourmous amount of strain on her tiny body, and cause untold damage. For food, you have to give them bird seed,DONT feed her hamster/mouse/gerbil food AT ALL. The pieces are too big, and she will choke to death on them. I give mine a mix of finch and canary seed (the smallest bird seed you can get hold of) and millet seed spray, which they seem to adore and will use it as a cornfield substitute for climbing up. If your not squeamish or mind bugs, you can also give her blue tit mix (again the very tiny seeds pack) which contain mealworms. I couldn't stand these though, so mine is perfectly happy and content on his finch/canary mix. Hope I have helped you out a bit, if you need any more info let me know.

Here is a a couple of pics of Harvey, for you:

















BTW: I have a vivarium/tank suitable for harvest mice which I'm going to put on here and ebay. It is glass, but I am willing to post it if needed,and it is quite big enough for a single harvest mouse. Let me know if your interested.


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## purple_x (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm not too sure if your little mouse (does she have a name?) would survive in the wild now that she's been away for so long.
I think if they are released they end up living on the edge of groups and never quite being accepted again, I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I have also been looking for ages for a pic of a set-up that someone had for their harvest mouse but I cant find it anywhere!

But this is a great site for mousey info and pics of set-ups 
Show us your cages!

Also at the top of this section on the forum there is a 'show me your cages' which is nice to look through and get some ideas from.

You sound like you're looking after her really well 
And yep, it annoys us all that pet shops/online stores sell things that are totally unsuitable for animals but they claim they are....ggrrrr!

Megazorb comes in a huge sack and costs anywhere from £6-£13 depending on where you get it. If there is a farm shop near you then they should have it quite cheap.
Other substrates that are good to use are aubiose, finacard, ecobed.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Purple, yes your right about that, once a harvest mouse is taken from the wild it won't be accepted back into the colony again (especially if it has any human smell on it), so aaryn would be better keeping her if possible. Harvest mice are a protected /endangered species, so whilst it is not allowed to go and pluck one form the wild to make a pet out of (like dormice), if it can't be released back into the wild, your perfectly entitled to keep it. I will post a pic of my Harvey's set up tomorrow, when the light is better!


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

That mouse is so tiny and we. Glad you are getting sorted. You treat her like I treat mine I neverforce them on my hands unless I have too. They especially dont like hands from above. But bribary is aloud.

Sounds like you are sorted.I didnt know about sawdust sorry. Our degus used to jump at loud noices but they so learn cars outside are not a threat.


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

OMG Harvey is just gorgeous... and I'm now 99.8% sure Sarah is a harvest mouse too. She's may be just starting to get the redness in her fur too? I love his ickle chubby white belly :wink:



colliewobble said:


> only clean her out every 4 months (no, really!) as having their home changed regularly stresses them out big time.


This is awesome. The disinterested guy @ my nearest pet shop burbled something about cleaning out & disinfecting mice homes once a week.

I've only had the heart to do 1 bedding/sawdust changeover this entire month because of being transferred from the shoebox through the pink cage into the ovo habitat. It didn't seem to be getting soiled or smelly. I just couldn't bring myself to take away her one familiar comfort... she spends so long getting her bed just how she wants it. Removing every spec of sawdust and fluffing it up. I add random bits of loo roll to other areas for her to find and drag back to her nest.

Based on Sarah's behavior (she has 2 specific places only she goes to the toilet in, I'd already decided to ignore the pet shop man and try out a gradual swap - every day giving her a new bit to find & taking away a equal size of old bit - but it's brilliant knowing I can leave well alone for such a long time! 



colliewobble said:


> you may have a devil of a job to catch her, in fact seeing as she is 'wild' it might be near impossible.


I really look forward to the day that she's fully recovered and speedy enough to be a headache to catch  That's not today, but I'm very hopeful.



colliewobble said:


> Don't give her a wheel, even the smallest one will put an enormous amount of strain on her tiny body, and cause untold damage.


The Ovo came with a really big green wheel which is still in the box. It's got three 0.5cm gaps running straight through the middle of the running zone . I'm looking at it thinking "how the hell is a mouse supposed to avoid their feet falling through those and breaking them?". I was going to source one that didn't threaten to snap her feet off... but that's another danger you've helped me avoid :001_tt1:


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> Purple, yes your right about that, once a harvest mouse is taken from the wild it won't be accepted back into the colony again (especially if it has any human smell on it), so aaryn would be better keeping her if possible. Harvest mice are a protected /endangered species, so whilst it is not allowed to go and pluck one form the wild to make a pet out of (like dormice), if it can't be released back into the wild, your perfectly entitled to keep it. I will post a pic of my Harvey's set up tomorrow, when the light is better!


My independent research backs this up, so it looks like Sarah & I are together for the duration. Naturally I'm delighted, but it's not about me.

as you guys know, I've been very concerned about her behavior since moving to the Ovo, but last night we had a breakthrough 

I've been keeping really quiet so as not to add stress to the move, but last night I accidentally started singing to the radio... and she came out and started doing 'normal' friendly, relaxed stuff.

60 mins later the penny finally dropped that she probably doesn't have hawk-like eyesight and has been identifying my movements, shape and shadow as 'friend or foe' depending on whether it's making aaryn-type noises or not.

Now I make sure I'm not quiet around her, talking as I approach the Ovo and talking/singing often when nearby. She's almost completely back to her old self and we are officially friends again, cos she wants to come out onto my desk, investigate its contents and help me type on my netbook. It's a social time she clearly enjoyed... until my quiet 'new Ovo' behavior caused her to become too afraid to come out & play 

Animal's have to be soo patient with us while we blunder around learning to communicate with them!

I've also discovered that she DOES go into the dome.... just not while I'm hovering around lol.

Sawdust is gone. Megazorb on the way and thanks to your support and advice we have a safer, happier mouse and an aaryn who was sufficiently de-stressed enough to start accidentally humming & singing to herself again.

You guys rock! :001_tt1:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Glad I could help you out. Yeah with normal fancy mice you do have to clean them out once a week (or more!) but not these lil guys. Harvey lives in my room (as he's so quiet!) and even at the 4 month stage I simply can't smell him at all or even tell there's a mouse in the room.

Definately don't give her a wheel, they really don't need one, and certainly won't miss it like a hamster would. They will amuse themselves and get enough exercise digging,making tunnels, climbing and generally running around.

Sarah may well prefer you to make some noise by her rather than sitting still, which is what something would do in the wild if it wanted to catch her! 
They are in this respect tougher than they look, and very little soundwise seems to phase them. Harvey will quite happily play and run about in his tank whilst my collie sits with her paws up against the glass, giving the odd woof, watching every move he makes! I used to be afraid she was frightening him, but he seems totally oblivious to it and it certainly doesn't stop him from running around right under her nose!

BTW don't worry about her being on her own. Despite the fact they live in colonies, they can and do fall out and some just don't like living with others ( a bit like us really). That is why I have Harvey on his own, he did have another for company but wouldn't get on with him, and as it was the second one they had tried to pair him with, I was told to leave him on his own. Harvey is perfectly content and happy alone, much more than he would be if he had to endure another mouse in his home which he didn't want.

I hope you have fun with her, they are a wonderfully entertaining and amusing pet to have, and I wouldn't be without one now!

Here are some pics of Harvey's set up to give you some ideas to use for yours:


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> BTW don't worry about her being on her own. Despite the fact they live in colonies, they can and do fall out and some just don't like living with others ( a bit like us really).


I know there was no milage in being worried about lonliness at this point as I can't fix it until I've sorted a suitable permanent home. But it's been weighing on my mind anyway :sad: thanx 4 lightening my conserns 

the pics of your set-up are really helpful


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

here she is


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

Glad shes in the some. Glad she is coming to you.

Your right they teach us. They taught rob not to wear a baseball cap. Maybe its cause he looks like a hask or because its not segu fassion. They taught me sproits are not an exceptable treat lol.


Anyway you will get there with the hand thing. Sometimes it takes ages. Its weired how they come for a treat then leg it in case you steel it back.

Glad you knowtaced her in the dome when you werent looking. Our degus wont eat salad when we are looking. It might be that they expect a treat but I think They are ashamed to eat salad as its human food

It sounds like you 2 are getting sorted. Im so chuffed

She is so sweet


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Awww she is georgous, a real cutie!! So tiny - the strawberry looks bigger than her!, and I love the fluffy tufts of fur! Her tail from what I can see is exactly like Harvey's, and her shape is the same as well. She is also very similar in color, I always thought they were quite reddish/gingery but Harvey is quite brownish in color, so obviously this isn't always the case. How is she liking the ovo? They're probably one of the only creatures that wouldn't find an ovo cage too cramped:lol:! You may find her harder to tame in it though, as there are lots of tunnels/chambers she can run down to hide. Just out of curiosity, can she manage the water bottle ok? Just wondering, as I tried to give Harvey one a while back as I couldn't believe that something could really be too small to push a tiny ball bearing like that, but it is definately true, as when he put his head and even his paws against it it wouldn't budge!!


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> How is she liking the ovo? They're probably one of the only creatures that wouldn't find an ovo cage too cramped:lol:!


Jury is still out on the ovo.

the good points so far are:-


the food den keeps her munchies away from anything less hygienic and because the white part slides out, I can remove, clean and refill every day without 'invading' her safe spaces. 

the dens are also a really quick way to get access to her as i can just flip the blue lid back when she's eating and it cuts off access to the tubing. i don't do that often as i don't want her to start treating them as a trap and be too concerned to feed. they click securely shut otherwise. they are about the same diameter as the non-pregnancy nests in the wild so she will quite happily sit and eat in there regardless of where I am. But she does love a sneaky smash & grab when it comes to blueberries. Apparently they are best served in bed :laugh:
I'll add a den specifically for coming in and out of the ovo so she gets used to treating it as the 'door' to the outside and leave the rest of them as closed spaces that she can rely on not being pester in. This will give her more decision-making control over when she want to come out or not. if she wants out onto my desk when I'm there, she'll know where to go. I think she'll tell me how much she wants to be tame/sociable and how much she doesn't.

the bedroom/travel sphere means I've easily been able to give her the 4-5" of bedding you recommended, filling up the bottom half (including a loo roll tube). The top half is left clear for good air ventilation, and she likes hopping from one side of the tubing to the other side, using the loo roll tube as a stepping stone. I'll be able to swap the loo roll for the little woven straw nest I've ordered after I've checked she likes it.
the bedroom/travel sphere is also brilliant. when I'm messing around cleaning bits of pooed tubing ... or dragging sawdust out of the dome, I remove the bedroom (with her snuggled in it), do what i need to do and attach it back again without ever having to handle, corral or corner her. that way she doesn't get rattled about & disturbed.

i can target clean small, specific sections of tubing and leave the rest alone - so no need to dismantle everything and stress her out.
the water bottle doesn't have a ball bearing. it works by creating a vacuum and usually has one droplet suspended from it, ready for her. I have noticed that there isn't always a droplet so am keeping a close eye on her ability to get water out. Unlike Harvey, she didn't appear to have a problem with the ball-bearing bottle that came with the pink cage as it leaked, but I have noticed that she's at the new water bottle a LOT less during the evening.

the dome is large enough to set up a two-story climbing area, for her to build confidence in but will be inadequate space before she's properly mobile again. by the time she starts motoring she's already reached the other side. Extending the tubing into a vivarium/tank set-up recommended by you all should be a breeze. I'm looking to get that done next month. I don't want to underestimate her capabilities and limit her options, but DIY time she & ovo can go somewhere quite... her food will stay in the ovo so getting her back there won't be a headache.

The dome base is quite deep so I able to put 4-5" of megazorb in there easily. It'll make the two entrances subterranean and feel more secure to enter. I won't know about the other benefits until the components arrive to replicate your tank (apple sticks/woven nest/rope etc..) and she starts using them (cross fingers).

I'll also look to raising the side tubes to vertical over time and putting a couple of apple sticks in them for her to climb up and down when she's ready. they are currently @ a 45 degree angle so she can strengthen her leg with the control, balance & focus it takes to get & and down, but remain within her mobility comfort zone.

because so much of the design is spherical it means chewing on it isn't that easy. this makes it more challenging to monitor her stress levels as I can't use bar chewing as an indicator any more... there are no bars. adding the honey seed ring to her food den has given her something else to chew on.
If she never becomes mobile enough to dash up & down a tank like a mad thing, I'll have the option of extending the tubing all around the room just below the ceiling. With added dens to investigate, treat places & water bottles, she may never enjoy the dizzying heights of branch climbing again... but her horizontal world can be substantial to compensate. 




colliewobble said:


> You may find her harder to tame in it though, as there are lots of tunnels/chambers she can run down to hide.


Despite the ovo's limitations - which your pics have helped illuminate  - I think that's one of the things I like best about it. She does have multiple 'get away from aaryn' options available to her 90% of the time, just like she would in the wild. I hope that this will support her sense of security and keep me in check.

She is adorable, and I'm ever so slightly :wink: susceptible to "ooh look a real live, fluffy toy! I want to play with it" syndrome. I'll continue to try and build trust between us. But because she has a natural right to choose how much physical contact we have... I like that she's got plenty of escape routes with which to assert her decisions


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm glad she is liking the ovo. As long as she 100% can't escape from it, she *should* be quite happy and content in it. Harvest mice's feet aren't designed for gripping on plastic, so putting some small branches in the vertical tubing would be ideal. If you find that you can't get them in however, try putting sprigs of millet spray in them instead, held in place by poking the stalk through one of the air holes in the tubes. If she gets well enough to climb branches, she will climb millet spray no problem. 

Something that may help with the taming is putting your hand in as best as you can, then either put some seeds on your hand so she learns that your hands mean food, therefore your a good thing to have around, or just keep your hand as still as you can, and you may well find that she will simply run up your arm thinking your just something else for her to climb on. Both of these mean she will come to associate your scent as something to welcome rather than run from. One handy thing about Harvest mice is that they can be quite naive and 'innocent' where humans are concerned, because they encounter so few of them, so don't tend to make the automatically instinctive thought that most animals (esp. rodents) have of humans + me = trouble/danger.

Your ovo bottle seems a great idea, with no ball bearing, just a vaccumm to let water drips out. I did once try to take the ball out of a standard bottle, but it obviously doesn't work the same way, as all the water flooded out in seconds! If I could buy a bottle like this I think I would def try it out, as if it works it is a much better idea than a bowl in all honesty.

BTW just incase you wondered how long your little mousie will likely be around for, the average lifespan of a HM is only 12 months unfortunately. Obviously there are exeptions to this (like the gerbil in my friend's class in school who reached 9!!!), but as Harvey is the first I've had I don't know yet(hopefully won't for a very long time either), all I do know is because of this their most definately a 'make the most of them while you've got 'em' pet.


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

I hate having a time limmit. Just so long as you are there for each other and love each other thats what matters.
Our first pet was a hamster Stoid short for Hamstoid and all my friends told me they are like phoenix. They dont die they transform into a gerbil or something. They were right. Her habitrail is now a massive sand bath for degus as we keep getting bigger houses. We can bairly get this one up the stairs with 2 of us. Stoid had attitude If you didnt let her our she bit you. and if you didnt clean her she put her bedding in her wheel then run in it. The bedding would get behind her over the top of the wheel and hit her in the face. We cleaned her out within minutes. She trained us well and I am sure she was the boss of the house.

I am loving your plans you are definitely thinking it through. You are also henpecked and she has you under the thumb. They do that. Ours wanted the bathroom done with new padded lino, false walls so they couldnt get under the floor and tiles with mice having a party drinking from acorns. Our rooms we just paint but they have standards. 

I like you approatch let her decide when she comes to you. I dont think you are stressing her at all. I believe she is soft on you allready. As for the climbing I think it is also a confidense thing. She will get better with you aproach and propably wont notice herself. She will not have the I cant do that climb problem. You should see if she runs in your dressing gown as long as you make sure she doesnt fall out the bottom. Through sleeves and stuff. It really tickles. 

She is so ickle with the strawberry. Once stoid got loose in the living room and we caught her by putting a strawberry on a saucer in the middle of the room. Picked up the saucer with stoid and strawberry no probs.

Whats her name?


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

Is this size/design of viv suitable as a permanent home/extension/garden to the ovo?

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

I'm going to see one nr me tomorrow with option to buy for £40... but need to know if it's right. The one I've been offered doesn't have 4cm holes in the lid :laugh:

If it is, I'll pick it up and take my time getting it set up just right... maybe even grow short crop variants in there. Give her a slice of the real world to play in.


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> Your ovo bottle seems a great idea, with no ball bearing, just a vaccumm to let water drips out. I did once try to take the ball out of a standard bottle, but it obviously doesn't work the same way, as all the water flooded out in seconds! If I could buy a bottle like this I think I would def try it out, as if it works it is a much better idea than a bowl in all honesty.


They are easily available on ebay. Here's one that shows how the bottle separates from the ovo-connecting component. 
Habitrail Ovo hamster bottle and holder | eBay

if you sorted out a way of suspending the bottle (maybe a circular holder), it would be a cheap idea to test out. I'll post the circumference/diameter of the bottle if you need that info.



colliewobble said:


> BTW just incase you wondered how long your little mousie will likely be around for, the average lifespan of a HM is only 12 months unfortunately. Obviously there are exceptions to this (like the gerbil in my friend's class in school who reached 9!!!), but as Harvey is the first I've had I don't know yet(hopefully won't for a very long time either), all I do know is because of this their most definitely a 'make the most of them while you've got 'em' pet.


Then I have some potentially wonderful news for you? According to this site Harvest Mouse they've been known to live up to 5 yrs when not part of the food chain. You & Harvey could pack a lot of love and play into 5 yrs.

If I did want to look into the possibility of adopting rescued friends for her... how do you suggest I start?


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

That looks huge and probably perfect. When I had 1 rodent its cage was smaller. I think though everyone thinks big is better. Id go for it but I dont have a mouse so Im not the expert.

I liked your other choice too. I hope she still gets to play in it. Domes are cool. 

How is her climbing doing is her leg getting stronger? Do you have any games you play with her?


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

Jarhead said:


> That looks huge and probably perfect. When I had 1 rodent its cage was smaller. I think though everyone thinks big is better. Id go for it but I dont have a mouse so Im not the expert.
> 
> I liked your other choice too. I hope she still gets to play in it. Domes are cool.
> 
> How is her climbing doing is her leg getting stronger? Do you have any games you play with her?


She'll definitely get the choice. I'll just join the two together with tubing and she can come & go as she pleases.

You're completely right, she has me wrapped around her little pinkie claw. I'm smitten... is it that obvious? I'll end up as a one woman rescue centre for HMs at this rate 

So far we're still building an understanding that my hand is a safe place to sit in and not just climb over. But the 3 home move in one month (shoebox-pink cage-ovo) is taking it's toll. She has visible fur loss down her left side :worried:

I'm leaving her well alone on the physical front at the mo. learning to trust is a stressful process in itself for a wild thing. Once she's clearly comfortable in her home I'll start offering my hands again. I just talk and sing to her often... and play uber relaxing music to her. That and leave her the hell alone during the night to do her own thing under the cover of darkness. That's when she sneaks into the dome.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

thanks for that bottle link, might look into trying that out. Yeah, maybe 3 home changes in such a short amount of time might have stressed her out, esp as she also had the transition from wild to pet to make as well. Go easy with her, don't change anything in her cage for a while ,so she realised that her world isn't going to change everytime she wakes up! and she should settle down. 

If you do want to add some friends to her, I would wait for a while, as she is obviously just getting used to everything and recovering, without having others invading her home. When she is well enough and settled however, I would start by the way to bond most animals, take it slowly. New neutral cage is highly important so they wouldn't think they have anything to defend,and a close eye kept on them, and only when you are 110% certain, there hasn't been any squeaks, temper displays, signs of unease, etc, should you attempt to put them in the original cage. Although a few scuffles are normal, whilst they work out who is 'boss' and the pecking order, if you see any real fighting occur you need to split them straight away before they seriously injure one another. Harvest mice look tiny and cute, but they can be extremely violent with their own kind if they don't like them, and will fight to the death. If they injure each other badly, you have to take into account that it may be impossible for a vet to treat them cos of their tiny size. They can get along with others if introduced, but like everything else that is introduced to a friend that it hasn't grown up with, there are no guarantees, it is a gamble wether they get along or not, and a good deal of work on your part for a successfull outcome.

The tank in the link is perfect for harvest mice, if the one your going to see doesn't end up being suitable, I have one that is 50 x 30 x 38 cm for sale. price £25 + p&p. I will be putting it on the classifieds here and ebay, but if your interested just let me know.


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

Yeah I think you are right to give her some space. I dont think she will object to treats on hands though. Like the set up. 

Intruducing new ones is like the other post says. We are introducing 3 babys to Jarhead whos 2-3 . He was found wandering the market and some one brought him into the vets. The boss of the 3 duke is a bit agrressive to Jarhead so taking it real slow. Jarhead is eager though.

Making sure no biting but keeping their cages close. Hopefully they will adjust.
Fingers crossed


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## aaryn (Aug 3, 2011)

She's back!... to her normal self 

Wandering brazenly in and out of the dome, even though I'm sitting right there. Scampering around confidently and spending minutes at a time watching me with her head tilted to one side. Today she's been nicking loo roll pieces out of the dome and dragging them back to her bedroom, which is very funny to watch. It's not easy to haul something up a tube when you're standing on it :laugh:

Thank you for the offer of your extra tank, the one I looked at was only 5 mins away in excellent condition, so it's now back home being thoroughly cleaned.

In sourcing other stuff for Sarah Brambly Mouse, I couldn't help noticing disinfectant for pet cages. Is this a branding game to get more money for normal disinfectants... or is it something which I should take seriously and get? If so, which would get your recommendation?

How's Harvey and Jarhead doing?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I am glad that she is back to normal and no worries, its great that you managed to get a great tank so close by! I use pet disinfectant for small animal cages because all of mine except Harvey are kept in my shed and I don't want to attract flies to it, but for one tiny indoor Harvest mouse, personally I wouldn't bother, as it is pretty costly stuff at around £4 a bottle. I normally use either [email protected] own make small pet cage disinfectant, or Clean&Clear which comes in a nice lemon or Lavender smell. What I use mainly though is white vinegar which costs about 90p in the supermarket, and works well to take any smells out of the cages. On my mouse/hamster cages this is quite noticeable, but obviously you don't a smell with harvests so it would mainly be just for the benefit of cleaning it well. I have 8 large cages to do and the vinegar is only just past the halfway mark after 3 months, so it should last you quite a while! Don't use too much of it, a few drops is all that is neccessary as mice have very delicate noses and lungs when it comes to odors and vinegar can be pretty overpowering in too big an amount!


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## Jarhead (Jul 11, 2011)

Glad Sarah is perked up a bit I uae washing up liquid I have also used Johnsons baby shampoo and detol. Not a lot and i rinse the stuff. I rinse the bottle 10 times as I am paranoid at that.

Jarhead is having problems. Duke seems to run madly across the case with jarhead following. Then it all seems to die down. Anyway we tried letting jarhead out in neutral teritory with them in the cage. 1st time duke got bossy with the other degus in the cage. Chasing and stuff no snapping though. 2nd time Jarhead was friendly duke was a nit snappy at him so we had to lift up the cage.

Anyway days later we just keep the cages together and its been quiet with the occational mad running about. Then last night Duke chased everyone and would not stop so had to be put in the small cage. Today we thought we would let Jarhead out with the other 2 ehile Duke was not around so to avoid problems. Jarhead was out 1st and paid no attention to them so we let them out. when Jarhead spotted them there was a mass jumble of degus so we seperated them. Trapped Jarhead in the sand bath. Chris figured it was shock and he thought one was duke. Anyway we untrapped him after they all were calm. Jarhead went straight for shy Cubin so I dropped he big head scarf on him and bundled him home. Cubin was terrified. No one was hurt though. I think this will take ages before we think abouut that again.:crying:


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