# Introducing Tilina



## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

Hi there everyone,

I'm new to the forums and would like to take a few minutes to introduce my gorgeous girl as I would like to become regularly involved on the forums and share the details of our progress through her pregnancy, birth and motherhood.

Tilina (AKA Tilly, or sometimes 'Princess' when she's trying to look innocent ) is our 2 year old Maine Coon X BSH, every bit your typical 'naughty tortie' with gorgeous freckles and big green eyes. She lives with us here in Gloucester with her full brother Meep The Stupid and our various other pets (snakes, lizards, tree frogs, tarantulas, tropical fish, a parrot, hamsters etc etc). Tilly's currently 6 weeks pregnant to our friend's handsome British Blue stud and coming along beautifully - in the past fortnight she's developed a significant football-belly and a fine set of pink udders  I'm currently finishing up a Masters in bioveterinary science, and have had experience with bottle-rearing and helping out with my friend's Burman litters when I used to live in Oxford. However this will be 'our' first litter so will be a real adventure for us both.

Last week we made her a birthing box from a large plastic storage tub with a door cut in one end, covered over with a towel to make it dark and lined with towels and her favourite fleecy blanket. I decided to go for a plastic birthing box as I wanted something that wouldn't get soggy and can be easily cleaned out and disinfected. We've also got her birthing kit ready, including clean towels, cotton wool, veterinary antiseptic, hand rearing bottles and formula, sterile latex gloves, veterinary lubricant, thermometer, sterilising tablets, birthing chart, digital scales, notebook and pen containing the vets' daytime and out of ours phone numbers and spare batteries for the camera!

So now there's not much left to do except sit back and watch her belly grow for another few weeks! We are planning to keep at least 1, possibly 2 of the kittens ourselves, 1 will go to the stud's owner and we have a waiting list of 3families for however many are left after that. Being pregnant seems to suit Tilly - she's got a gorgeous gloss to her coat and is generally very happy with herself. Her favourite place at the moment in on the chair next to her birthing box, lying stretched out on her back with legs akimbo and purring like a motorbike in the summer sunshine :thumbup:

Showing off her freckles










Having a squash-cuddle from Meep (don't worry - taken before she got pregnant!)










Testing her new birthing box










Pre-natal yoga


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

she is a beautiful Girl. I hope everything goes well with the birth and kittens.


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## dottylotty (Apr 1, 2010)

your cats are gorgeous, hope the pregnancy goes well and you have lots of cute kitties


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

aww shes gorgeous, looks abit like my cat. look forward to seeing the babies when they arrive, it sounds like your all ready for them. good luck and keep us updated.:thumbup:


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I hope everything goes well.

The boxes are fantastic my cats love them so much I a thinking of getting more and putting little fleeces in each one.


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## Catamour (Jun 28, 2010)

Your cats are indeed very lovely, although in my humble opinion just plain moggies. I fail to see the breeding of a British Shorthair and Maine Coon, there is absolutley no resemblence to either breed. 
I am however, a little puzzled why anyone would breed cross bred cats, or moggies if you prefer. There are so many lovely moggies in cats protection shelters that could easily be found good homes amongst the general public, who prefer to own a moggie rather than a pure bred cat. Is it not also questionable the ethics behind "breeding" moggies. They cannot be registered with any cat fancy and it would not nake sense why any pedigree stud owner would want to produce kittens of partially unknown parentage. 
What is your ethical purpose to breed cross bred cats? At what age do you sell your kittens?

Catamour


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## Renee' (Jun 27, 2010)

I agree entirely with the sentiments of "Catamour".

What is your reasoning behind firstly breeding a "moggie" - irrelevant of the fact it is a Maine Coon x BSH - it is still a moggie.

Secondly - why mate it to a BSH.

What are you hoping to achieve.

You are not doing yourself or this lovely cat any favours.

Quite an irresponsible act of behaviour with so many moggies in rescue centres looking for homes.

Renee'


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I can see you are excited by this and I am loathe to curb your enthusiasm though I do agree with the sentiments of Catamour, however what is done is done.

Make sure you are really, really clued up on pregnancy, birth and the care of new born kittens as Tilly and her kittens will rely on *you *to make sure they all survive.
Make sure you can take her to the vet at a moments notice if things go wrong in labour, if you feel there is lack of progress or anything is just not quite right consult the vet, better safe than sorry, often hunches you have are correct. Make sure you have enough money for a caesarian section or other vet care she or her kittens may need.

I think your birthing box is slightly too small. It appears quite narrow, too narrow for mum and kittens to stretch out when suckling IMO and young kittens could quite easily escape or get lost out of the box. You want them enclosed. Clued up mums will bring them back in, but scatty new mums may not even know they have gone, till it is too late.
A whelping box 21"x21" is a good size and shape.
Whelping Boxes and Kittening Pens - it doesn't get soggy.
It gives plenty room for mum to stretch out and the kittens have plenty of room and are enclosed until they escape over the top when old enough and mobile enough.
Folded up towels can be a bit dangerous too IMO, very young kittens can get lost in the folds and could get crushed by mum or end up cold or dehydrated as they cannot escape from the fold to get back to mum. Mums also can end up "digging", so lots of folds of material are not good for young kittens.
Rubber-backed vet bed cut to fit, in the whelping box is a better idea. You can use towels in labour to clean up and absorb some of the mess but I feels it is best to leave some mess around for a few days so your girl feels secure. Excessive cleaning and changing of the bedding early on can lead to her removing them to elsewhere.

The kittens will all be most likely be shorthaired if she is bred to a pure bred BSH (unless he carries the long hair gene), so make sure your potential kitten owning families are aware of this. 
Another thing, she looks quite small and young are you sure she is 2 years old?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Catamour said:


> Your cats are indeed very lovely, although in my humble opinion just plain moggies. I fail to see the breeding of a British Shorthair and Maine Coon, there is absolutley no resemblence to either breed.
> I am however, a little puzzled why anyone would breed cross bred cats, or moggies if you prefer. There are so many lovely moggies in cats protection shelters that could easily be found good homes amongst the general public, who prefer to own a moggie rather than a pure bred cat. Is it not also questionable the ethics behind "breeding" moggies. They cannot be registered with any cat fancy and it would not nake sense why any pedigree stud owner would want to produce kittens of partially unknown parentage.
> What is your ethical purpose to breed cross bred cats? At what age do you sell your kittens?
> 
> Catamour





Renee' said:


> I agree entirely with the sentiments of "Catamour".
> 
> What is your reasoning behind firstly breeding a "moggie" - irrelevant of the fact it is a Maine Coon x BSH - it is still a moggie.
> 
> ...


How strange that both of you are so new that these are your very first posts?


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

I find it rather odd that other users on here share stories of their pregnant and nursing crossbred queens, often with no idea of who the father of their litters is, and receive congratulations and support, yet I chose to have my crossbred queen snap tested and bred to a proven healthy stud and suddenly I'm expected to explain myself?

Please do not try to lecture me about ethics and responsibility - as you will see from my OP I am a bioveterinary scientist (specialising in reproductive physiology, wildlife conservation, laboratory diagnostics and pharmacology) and sat through 5 years of lectures at university to become so - I'm actually writing my MSc thesis on reproductive biotechnologies - specifically the cryopreservation of semen - if it's of any interest. Chosing to breed my queen was not something undertaken lightly, least of all because it was obvious that my decision about what I do with my crossbreed cats would come under attack from the snobbish fraction of the cat fancy that maintain the only good cat is an inbred one, but because I am acutely aware of the implications of breeding in its entirety. It is something that gets drummed into you when you're in surgery assisting in a spay and a litter of kittens comes spilling out of the uterus as it's being removed...

However, seeing as how some people have DEMANDED answers, I shall try to give them -

I stated Tilly's crossbred heritage simply as a point of interest, not so that her appearance could be scruitinsed and comments made that she doesn't fit the appearance of either breed - of course she wont, she's a crossbreed/moggie (although her full brother does show a slightly closer resemblance to his Maine Coon sire). I've never tried to make her out to be anything else, so there's no real point in making critical comments about her pedigree or lack thereof.

I mated her to a British Blue as I am good friends with the owner who adores Tilly and expressed a firm interest in having one of her kittens as a pet for her daughter. This allowed me to ensure Tilly was bred to a proven, healthy stud - my main concern - rather than simply allowing her to roam (she's an indoor cat) to avoid her picking up sexually transmitted infections from a 'street tom'. This way I know that she is safe, and her kittens will be protected from such illnesses also.

What am I hoping to achieve? A litter of healthy, confident, well tempered kittens, raised in a loving and patient home on a top quality diet under exceptional veterinary care, well socialised with all manner of people and other pets before they are wormed, vaccinated, microchipped and finally collected to go to their new homes at 12 weeks complete with comprehensive kitten pack, insurance and lifetime aftercare. At least one of the kittens will stay here with us and become a permenant addition to our family. Suprised!? You shouldn't be - Just because they're moggies doesn't mean they don't deserve the same level of care as any other cat.

With regards to the families that the kittens are going to. Yes, there are a lot of kittens and cats in rescues waiting for homes - I'm more than aware of this having worked alongside the industry and having also taken in numerous rescue animals myself - come to think of it, I have 5 animals here at the moment (4 corn snakes, a gecko and a canary) that I have rescued and rehabilitated, not to mention all the rest that I have rehomed over the years. However, the families that have already 'reserved' Tilly's unborn kittens are very good friends or family members that have known Tilly from being a kitten herself, and made it perfectly clear (before I even considered mating her) that if they were to ever have a kitten, they would only consider if if it was one that I had bred and raised from Tilina. I have discussed this with them at length as it was the most significant part of my decision about mating her in the first place. None of the families would chose to get a kitten from a rescue centre - they would rather not have one at all, so in this particular situation no other cats are being 'deprived' of a loving home. IF the situation was different and we did not already have these families wanting kittens specifically from Tilly, I would of course have had her spayed months ago - as you may now realise, I'm not _entirely_ stupid. While I personally don't have a problem with people choosing to breed their cats (pedigree or not) provided it is done responsibly, I do not condone the deliberate breeding of unwanted kittens that do not already have homes waiting for them.

So then, I am now going to go back to enjoying my beautiful moggie while she continues to bloom in the next few weeks of her pregnancy and anticipate the arrival of her eagerly awaited kittens - if you still feel you're not quite ready to jump off your soapboxes just yet then feel free to PM me. To those of you who have wished us good luck and support - thank you! I look forward to being able to share our experiences with you. :thumbup:


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey LittleStar!!

Please do not worry about these ''posters'' as it all seems very strange that 2 posters who are new to the forum post on the same thread within 30 of each other, and its their first posts!

You seem like you definately know what your doing, and Tilly is STUNNING!! I wish you both the best and keep us updated!!

Just for the record i also got 'slammed' for having moggie kittens! Different situation though!


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I can see you are excited by this and I am loathe to curb your enthusiasm though I do agree with the sentiments of Catamour, however what is done is done.
> 
> Make sure you are really, really clued up on pregnancy, birth and the care of new born kittens as Tilly and her kittens will rely on *you *to make sure they all survive.
> Make sure you can take her to the vet at a moments notice if things go wrong in labour, if you feel there is lack of progress or anything is just not quite right consult the vet, better safe than sorry, often hunches you have are correct. Make sure you have enough money for a caesarian section or other vet care she or her kittens may need. *Thank you for your advice - as you may have read in my other post I do have experience in this area, however this is the first time I am dealing with my own cat in pregnancy so it is slightly different for me.*
> ...


 *Yes, she was born 2nd December 2007.*


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Catamour said:


> Your cats are indeed very lovely, although in my humble opinion just plain moggies. I fail to see the breeding of a British Shorthair and Maine Coon, there is absolutley no resemblence to either breed.
> I am however, a little puzzled why anyone would breed cross bred cats, or moggies if you prefer. There are so many lovely moggies in cats protection shelters that could easily be found good homes amongst the general public, who prefer to own a moggie rather than a pure bred cat. Is it not also questionable the ethics behind "breeding" moggies. They cannot be registered with any cat fancy and it would not nake sense why any pedigree stud owner would want to produce kittens of partially unknown parentage.
> What is your ethical purpose to breed cross bred cats? At what age do you sell your kittens?
> 
> Catamour


Not everyone can adopt from shelters, not every one wants a purebred cat



Renee' said:


> I agree entirely with the sentiments of "Catamour".
> 
> What is your reasoning behind firstly breeding a "moggie" - irrelevant of the fact it is a Maine Coon x BSH - it is still a moggie.
> 
> ...


 From these pictures and from what the op has written shes taking great. Hope the OP has thick skin and returns to this forum 



lauren001 said:


> I can see you are excited by this and I am loathe to curb your enthusiasm though I do agree with the sentiments of Catamour, however what is done is done.
> 
> Make sure you are really, really clued up on pregnancy, birth and the care of new born kittens as Tilly and her kittens will rely on *you *to make sure they all survive.
> Make sure you can take her to the vet at a moments notice if things go wrong in labour, if you feel there is lack of progress or anything is just not quite right consult the vet, better safe than sorry, often hunches you have are correct. Make sure you have enough money for a caesarian section or other vet care she or her kittens may need.
> ...


My Cat Soda is a year old and only weighs 5 pounds and looks like a kitten.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Goodness me, there's a recipe for disaster. The girl a MC x BSH cross and the sire a BSH. I sincerely hope that both parents, and their ancestors where possible, have had yearly screening for HCM which is rife in both these breeds.


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Goodness me, there's a recipe for disaster. The girl a MC x BSH cross and the sire a BSH. I sincerely hope that both parents, and their ancestors where possible, have had yearly screening for HCM which is rife in both these breeds.


Thank you - As a bioveterinary scientist I am aware of the problems with HCM, which is why I screened Tilly (and her brother) by ECG and echocardiography at 12 months of age and again 4 months ago when they had her boosters. The sire has also been screened and found to be healthy, and the kittens will also be screened when they have their initial vaccinations.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

gskinner123 said:


> Goodness me, there's a recipe for disaster. The girl a MC x BSH cross and the sire a BSH. I sincerely hope that both parents, and their ancestors where possible, have had yearly screening for HCM which is rife in both these breeds.


and PKD from the BSH side

She looks a very petite girl - I do hope going to a big British Blue stud doesn't cause issues and she has a healthy litter for both your and her sakes.

I am also another person who finds the growing market for crossbred pedigrees a bit bizarre - why not just have a lovely moggie or a pedigree? :confused1:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Good for you. If only all pedigree cat breeders were as on the ball.

I guess the fact that HCM must be screened for annually doesn't come into play here (well, it does for the sire obviously and for Tilina if you'll be breeding from her in the future) because the value of yearly screening alerts the breeder to a potential problem before, hopefully, they've carried on too far with the same lines. It's alarming though that a cat can get the all clear on, say, 4 years of screening and then test positive on the fifth... by which time lots of potential little 'time bombs' will have been placed in new homes.... yet another reason why it's imperative, as far as humanly possible, to know the history of cats other than just the parents themselves.

Ideally MC's should undergo DNA testing for their own specific gene mutation - and echocardiology only as a back-up for other gene mutations for which there are, thusfar, no DNA tests available.


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## sunzstan (Sep 14, 2009)

hi littlestar,
dont let peoples comments upset you. you seem to know your stuff.i hope everything goes well for tilly and her pregnancy. hope to see the pics soon, they will be so gorgeous, good luck and all the best. x :thumbup:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Hiya welcome to the forum and your cats are super cute!:thumbup:

Hope the pregnancy goes well 

As for some of the more abrubt posts ......I can only say not everyone is like this and please dont be put off from posting x


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes, definately a strange thread...however it *is* in the cat breeding section, so that could explain it. Or.......some of the schools in Scotland have closed so perhaps some new young people are deciding to join up!


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

Soupie said:


> and PKD from the BSH side
> 
> She looks a very petite girl - I do hope going to a big British Blue stud doesn't cause issues and she has a healthy litter for both your and her sakes. *Tilly may appear petite in the photos but this is misleading as she has quite a delicate and kittenish face and long legs - in reality she's not as small as she appears and is a solid, healthy build. The stud she was put to is not overly large but well proportioned with an excellent record of health. And thank you - I expect she will be fine, but she has the best veterinary care on hand to help if she does happen to experience any difficulties *
> 
> I am also another person who finds the growing market for crossbred pedigrees a bit bizarre - why not just have a lovely moggie or a pedigree? :confused1: *Tilly was not bred with the intention of specifically producing MC X BSH, she was bred because we, the stud's owner and several of our friends wanted healthy kittens specifically from her - her crossbred heritage is of no concern to them or us provided the resulting kittens are happy and healthy. *


The kittens from this breeding will be raised and cared for just as well as if not better than the most expensive pedigrees, and go to homes that are already waiting and prepared for them. Money is no factor here - just the welfare of my queen and her litter. If my decision to breed a single litter of much wanted kittens from my cat in a responsible and caring manner is somehow offensive to pedigree breeders - well unfortunately that is their problem, not mine, and it is of no real concern of theirs anyway - its not as though these kittens are going to be competing against theirs for rosettes is it?

I appreciate that there are a great majority of excellent and ethical pedigree breeders out there who take great pride and care in how they breed their queens and raise their kittens, but unfortunatly there is also a lot of snobbery and bitchyness. The fact that a crossbred queen has been deliberately put into kitten has immediately raised all these questions, as the clear assumption is that 'the cat is a crossbreed, therefore the owner hasn't a clue.' If I had put on here that I was breeding a pedigree this-or-that to another, would the same questions about ethics/health/welfare have come up? No, almost certainly not, because obviously the owners of pedigrees always know everything so it would be assumed this would have already been taken care of...? I can assure you this isn't always the case, and not all breeders are so considerate as I have been in preparing for this litter.

Please do not presume that this breeding has not been undertaken without every consideration for my queens' welfare and that of her kittens, when you are not fully aware of the 14+ months of careful consideration, planning and preperation that has gone into producing this litter.


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

Again, to those of you that have expressed good wishes to Tilly - thank you! It is very encouraging to see that this forum is not entirely critical of other people's responsible breeding practices even if it does cause the die-hard pedigree snobs to get their knickers in a twist :lol:

Tilly is doing very well and remains bright and active despite her growing size. 
She woke me up this morning looking very pleased with herself and presenting a prized gift of a squashed bluebottle that had come in through the bedroom window yesterday evening and had been driving us all up the wall . The last few days have been rather hard work for her with the extreme heat and she has spent them stretched out on the cool wooden floor and demanding food every 5 minutes. Both cats have been drinking a lot as well - unsuprising given how warm it's been.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I look forward to seeing more of Tilly and her kittens when they arrive.
Some of the posts of this thread have been over the top (one of the reasons I don't post here often, though none of the nastiness has ever been aimed at me personally- I just don't like to see it.) I'm sure with your qualifications you know more about what you're doing than a lot of people and I wish you the very best with your gorgeous cat. Meep (love the name!) is gorgeous too btw


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## Momo12 (May 11, 2010)

Hi Littlestar,
Your cats are gorgeous, you obviously know exactly what you are doing, so the very best of luck with your impending litter, look forward to seeing them all.:thumbup::thumbup:

Mo xxx


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

lymorelynn said:


> I look forward to seeing more of Tilly and her kittens when they arrive.
> Some of the posts of this thread have been over the top (one of the reasons I don't post here often, though none of the nastiness has ever been aimed at me personally- I just don't like to see it.) I'm sure with your qualifications you know more about what you're doing than a lot of people and I wish you the very best with your gorgeous cat. Meep (love the name!) is gorgeous too btw


Thank you :thumbup:

Meep is a love to look at but not terribly bright, bless him. He has a habit of getting over-excited during playtimes and running headlong into furniture, although he plays fetch better than any dog I've met! He's exceptionally gentle natured and I'm sure we wont have any issues in introducing him to the kittens when they are old enough.


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

Momo12 said:


> Hi Littlestar,
> Your cats are gorgeous, you obviously know exactly what you are doing, so the very best of luck with your impending litter, look forward to seeing them all.:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> Mo xxx


Thank you! I see from your signature that you've recently had a litter yourself - do you have any pics of them on here?


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

This thread is now being closed at OP's request.


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