# Pony Loan? First timers, advice needed!



## Mama Sass

Hi all,

My daughter is 14 and has been riding since she was six. The obsession with all things horse shows no signs of lessening so we are beginning to think that the way forward is a pony of her own!

The yard manager of her riding school has suggested a pony loan would be a good idea. Although they don't do them at her school she said that if we find a pony we could grass livery it with them. My daughter could then have lessons there for free and obviously spend as much time as she wanted with her pony. She was really helpful and gave me a breakdown of all the extra costs (shoeing, insurance etc) and although it would be tight I think we could just about manage it - we are spending a huge amount on lessons anyway!

The thing is we are not a horsey family (I know nothing really!) and I am at loss as to where to start! 

What are the good things about pony loans? What are the pitfalls and what do we need to be wary of? Needless to say we are not going to rush in to anything ( I haven't even told my daughter that we're thinking about it yet for fear of getting her hopes up) but if anyone could give us a bit of guidance I'd be grateful!


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## StormyThai

If I am perfectly honest I will never, ever be a loanee or a loaner again.

There are some good sides, and there are some success stories...However, in my experience loans never work out.

From the loanee side I have had horses sold from under my nose (it is still their horse so they have a right to do as they wish), One was stolon in the middle of the night and others have just been taken back after the owners have seen the amount of work I put in...Oh and lets not forget the one I couldn't give back, that was an interesting one 

And then from the loaner side I have had to take horses back due to the loanee not providing the care and/or respect that was needed...


Don't get me wrong, there are some good loaner's/loanee's out there, they are just few and far between is all :sneaky2:


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## Wiz201

If you do find a loan pony you like, make sure you draw up a written contract with the owner saying where the pony can be kept (some owners stipulate the pony is to stay on the same yard so be careful that they know you want the pony at your daughter's riding school) How long you want the pony for, and whether the owner is entitled to come and check on the pony or whatever plus details of his feed, shoes, insurance, vet etc.
If your daughter doesn't hack out a lot on roads, you could get away without having shoes which will save you money - just have the farrier come and trim the feet.
when you go and view ponies, see if the instructor will come with you, and see the owner riding the pony first. Then let your daughter ride him in all the situations she'll be riding him, i.e. hacking as well as lessons. She should be able to handle him and tack him up, groom, untack etc.
If the instructor is offering free lessons in return for grass livery costs, that seems a good deal to me, lessons are so expensive. I'm part loaning a horse for this reason - owner isn't able to ride him all the time, so I do a weekly ride on him.
As above, yes, there are pitfalls, owners are still in ownership, but if you have a written contract, sit down and discuss every stipulation with the owner, there should be no problems. I suggest looking on preloved or equine loans website.


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## Rafa

If you have been offered grass livery, that's usually just for the Summer months.

What would you be able to organise for the Winter, when he would need to be stabled?


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## Mama Sass

Thanks everyone for your replies, lots of food for thought! We knew this wasn't going to be a straightforward process hence doing as much research as we can!



Sweety said:


> If you have been offered grass livery, that's usually just for the Summer months.
> 
> What would you be able to organise for the Winter, when he would need to be stabled?


This I am not sure about, she mentioned nothing about the winter months when we spoke - another one for the list of questions!

Thanks


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## Wiz201

Ponies can live out in winter, but I would stipulate he/she had a stable available to use just in case of emergencies or injury. Also consider that you may have to clip the coat even if the pony is doing just light work in winter just to avoid sweating and getting a chill, then the pony will need a rug, although if you find an owner who will give you all his stuff inc rugs its much easier. 
Even if the pony just has a under belly clip, he'll need a light turnout rug to protect him from the rain, and then if its severely cold, a heavier turnout rug.


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## Hanwombat

My horses live out 24/7  Hollie hasn't been stabled for about 5 years


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## Mama Sass

Wiz201 said:


> Ponies can live out in winter, but I would stipulate he/she had a stable available to use just in case of emergencies or injury. Also consider that you may have to clip the coat even if the pony is doing just light work in winter just to avoid sweating and getting a chill, then the pony will need a rug, although if you find an owner who will give you all his stuff inc rugs its much easier.
> Even if the pony just has a under belly clip, he'll need a light turnout rug to protect him from the rain, and then if its severely cold, a heavier turnout rug.


Yeah when we spoke she did say that it would be best to get a loan that comes with tack/rugs etc if at all possible. Plus they do have stabling and the like so I am pretty sure that they would help us look after the pony if it was injured/unwell. It's a very well run yard and my daughter has been riding there half her life without problems and I do trust them.

Clipping is something that the yard manager added to the list of costs that she said I needed to think about/take in to account and they're happy to arrange that too.

Thanks for your advice, it's really kind of you to help...it's all so new to me and it goes without saying the more research we do the better!


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## Rafa

Hanwombat said:


> My horses live out 24/7  Hollie hasn't been stabled for about 5 years


My Sister's horse lives out, but he's a Shire cross, with a coat like a yeti!

Mine's a Thoroughbred though and a shower of rain is enough to send him into a meltdown.

I think so much depends on the breed/type.

It would be great to have one who could live out. I wish!


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## Elles

Why would she get her lessons for free? Are they thinking of working livery, where they have the use of the pony to give lessons on? It would be a very unusual riding school that would allow someone to keep their pony on grass livery and give them free lessons. Unless the grass livery is quite costly?


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## Wiz201

Elles said:


> Why would she get her lessons for free? Are they thinking of working livery, where they have the use of the pony to give lessons on? It would be a very unusual riding school that would allow someone to keep their pony on grass livery and give them free lessons. Unless the grass livery is quite costly?


well it sounds like a reasonable riding school to me if she can have free lessons on grass livery and considering its a pony she'll be loaning for herself. They would probably have to think about insurance if they were going to do working livery because they'll have to take more responsibility for the pony if they're going to use it in lessons.


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## Elles

Hopefully they have extensive insurance and a licence already if they're a riding school, or they'd be breaking the law.

An owner of a working livery would have their own insurance for the pony, as would a loaner normally, whether they put the horse on working livery or not. A livery yard, let alone a riding school, would be expected to have public liability insurance in case something happened, so insurance should be covered already.

I've yet to have met a riding school who would give a diy grass livery free lessons. Even full liveries normally have to pay for lessons which is why I asked.  

Maybe they are exceptional and let their liveries join in lessons I don't know, but it would be unusual, after all it's how they make their living, so losing a riding school client who pays for individual lessons and gaining a grass livery, probably wouldn't be wise from a financial standpoint.

Where I live, a grass, or diy livery with a stable for a pony might be about £12 - £25 a week, less than the cost of one lesson and a riding school wouldn't want to fill their lessons with grass liveries.


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## Wiz201

well its up to them, maybe because its only a pony (and therefore likely to be a good doer and live on fresh air etc) that's why they're offering free lessons


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## Hanwombat

Sweety said:


> My Sister's horse lives out, but he's a Shire cross, with a coat like a yeti!
> 
> Mine's a Thoroughbred though and a shower of rain is enough to send him into a meltdown.
> 
> I think so much depends on the breed/type.
> 
> It would be great to have one who could live out. I wish!


Hollie is part clydesdale so she too turns into a yeti 

My other horse is a argentine polo pony so she is used to the extremes but she is rugged.

Hollie is rugged if its wet to prevent rain scald.

My old mare Roz also lived out 24/7 - she was a mixture of breeds but was rugged and even wear warmers for her legs. She had a wonderful 9 year retirement before her death.


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## lilythepink

I would never loan out a horse or pony nor would I ever want want that I didn't own outright.

Plenty good horses and ponies about where the owners are looking for good homes cos their kids outgrew them, not everyone is fortunate to be able to keep all their kids old and outgrown horses and ponies.

I would also not want my pony being used in a riding school either but would much prefer a good livery yard where there was good help available should I need it.

Plenty people out there selling ponies complete with all tack....tack is something you can build up on anyway and it doesn't need to cost the earth to get started.


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## Wiz201

Some might loan you a pony with a view to buy in the future, but loaning does get you to experience most of the ownership without having to fork out the money immediately.


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## lilythepink

Wiz201 said:


> Some might loan you a pony with a view to buy in the future, but loaning does get you to experience most of the ownership without having to fork out the money immediately.


yes it does...agree here but I have seen so many friendships go sour over this and also ponies go missing, kids get attached to ponies and unscrupulous owners then say they want to sell and at an over inflated price.......and, what happens should there be a huge vets bill?Insurance only goes so far and some stuff isn't even covered.

Plenty good cheap honest ponies about.

Could even try a local horse charity/sanctuary, they loan out tried and tested ponies and always need space.

I would never consider a private loan home ever.


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## Wiz201

Yes I think a horse sanctuary would be a good idea, at least you know they're not going to be unscrupulous owners and they will provide support.


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## Elles

One of the horses I have is on loan, but it is a little different. Her owner is a good friend who suffered a stroke. Her horse came to live with me 3 years ago and since then my friend recovered enough to have her horse back, which was always the understanding, but instead of taking my now much loved PRE (andalusian) back, she found herself another PRE and let me keep her, rather than split us up.  If I could afford to buy her, she would sell her to me and I would buy her, but it's not possible at the moment and may never be. If I ever have a problem and can no longer keep her, she will have her back at the drop of a hat too, whether I've bought her or not.

Ponies do go out on loan quite often if the owner doesn't want to sell their outgrown pony, or maybe the daughter has gone to university, so it's not always doom and gloom. 

A contract is a must though, even with our friendly agreement we have a contract, so there's no misunderstanding.

You still have to be careful even with sanctuaries. Another friend had 2 ponies on loan from a well known sanctuary, small ponies as pets. The friend wasn't that knowledgeable about ponies, but had their own place and land and thought it would be nice. 

The ponies both suffered laminitis and she spent a fortune trying to keep them right and on treatment for them and loved them dearly, but then due to a family and financial issue in the recession that meant they were losing their property, she had no choice but to ask for them to be rehomed. The sanctuary refused to have them back, until in the end she had to drive them to the sanctuary and basically dump them. The sanctuary had given her no advice and no support in all the years she had them and didn't even visit them as they'd said they do. 

So whether buying, loaning, or rehoming from a sanctuary, you still have to be careful. If the riding school are trustworthy, they would be the best people to advise probably.


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## Mama Sass

Elles said:


> Why would she get her lessons for free? Are they thinking of working livery, where they have the use of the pony to give lessons on? It would be a very unusual riding school that would allow someone to keep their pony on grass livery and give them free lessons. Unless the grass livery is quite costly?[/QUOTE
> 
> If we agree to the pony being used in the riding school when we're not around (days to be agreed in advance), then she would be able to slot in to other lessons for free, but we would still have to pay for her current weekly riding lesson.
> 
> I was really only looking for a bit of advice and we haven't even made a firm decision either way. It seems there are more questions that answers and lots of conflicting opinions but please be assured whatever we decide the welfare of the pony and the safety of my daughter will be paramount.
> 
> And just to make it very clear - my daughter rides at a very reputable riding school which is insured and takes the welfare of its ponies/horses very seriously!
> 
> Thanks for all your replies, really appreciate it.


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## Elles

Ah yes, that would be considered a working livery and you would have to let anyone who is considering loaning a pony to you know that their pony would be used in a riding school. You would also be looking for a pony that is suitable for use in a riding school, so not just taking your own preferences into account. This would be a more normal arrangement than the one I thought you meant, with the pony on grass livery and lessons for free. 

Be very careful with this arrangement. Make certain that the pony wouldn't be used so often he'd be too tired to be ridden by your daughter and that he's available for her when she wants to ride, not just when they don't want to use him. Taking into account that chances are your daughter will want to ride when everyone else wants to, hence at the busiest times for the school.

Ask about what would happen if the pony was sick or injured. Would your daughter be able to ride other ponies and would the cost of his livery still be the same if he couldn't be worked, or do they have a separate nursing livery he'd have to go on. What if he needed box rest? 

If the school have other working liveries, ask if you can speak to them about their arrangements and how it works for them?

That's just from the school side, of course there's plenty of other considerations if loaning or buying a pony generally that you'd need to take into account. 

Good luck though, your daughter is a very lucky girl.


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## Mama Sass

Elles said:


> Ah yes, that would be considered a working livery and you would have to let anyone who is considering loaning a pony to you know that their pony would be used in a riding school. You would also be looking for a pony that is suitable for use in a riding school, so not just taking your own preferences into account. This would be a more normal arrangement than the one I thought you meant, with the pony on grass livery and lessons for free.
> 
> Be very careful with this arrangement. Make certain that the pony wouldn't be used so often he'd be too tired to be ridden by your daughter and that he's available for her when she wants to ride, not just when they don't want to use him. Taking into account that chances are your daughter will want to ride when everyone else wants to, hence at the busiest times for the school.
> 
> Ask about what would happen if the pony was sick or injured. Would your daughter be able to ride other ponies and would the cost of his livery still be the same if he couldn't be worked, or do they have a separate nursing livery he'd have to go on. What if he needed box rest?
> 
> If the school have other working liveries, ask if you can speak to them about their arrangements and how it works for them?
> 
> That's just from the school side, of course there's plenty of other considerations if loaning or buying a pony generally that you'd need to take into account.
> 
> Good luck though, your daughter is a very lucky girl.


Thanks for that, lots of useful advice there. This is not something to be rushed in to and it may be that we wait another year before we go ahead. I am going to speak with the yard manager again later this week (armed with my list of questions!) and we'll see how we go from there.

If I could just find a happy medium for my daughter between just having lessons and owning her own her own pony it would be great but it kind of seems all or nothing!

Once again thanks for your help - will keep you posted on what/when/if we decide what to do.


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## Wiz201

its all about finding the right owner, in my experience that can take a while! Sometimes the horses are ok, its finding good owners!


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## Elles

Another possibility is a share. Your daughter could maybe share a horse or pony and pay towards his keep, arranging specific times and days that the pony is 'hers'. This can work very well, especially if the pony is kept at a riding school where she can have lessons and if the owner is having lessons there too. In this instance the owner would be ultimately responsible for the pony, but your daughter would have 'her' pony and without sharing with riding school lessons. I find this can be a good introduction to the realities of ponyship, without jumping in at the deep end.

Again it would have to be very carefully considered, but it's normally easier to get out of if it doesn't work from either end and less responsibility than a full loan or purchase. It can be great fun too buying stuff for 'your' pony, so maybe your daughter could have a special purple numnah to use when she rode and a matching head-collar, that kind of thing.

Another possibility to consider. There may even be a livery already at the school who would consider a share. I would talk to people.


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## Wiz201

I think the OP said the riding school couldn't share their own ponies out, but its worth asking round the liveries.
Other than that, it might be worth saving some money for a year and buying your own. As she's 14 (is she slim? tall?) I would look at either a chunky 13 - 14hh pony (when I say chunky, I mean chunky legs) or even a 14 - 15hh cob as they are cheap to keep and live on fresh air. Have a look round on the adverts, you may be pleasently surprised at how low some prices are.


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## Elles

Yes, she said they don't loan their school ponies. Someone looking for a share might let their pony move to the school and share there too. So not just the liveries, there could be other options. 

My daughter had a shared pony when she was about 10. He moved in with me and brought his owner with him. They only lived just up the road anyway though and he only stayed for the Summer. I'd forgotten about him until now. 

I only mention it, because what the OP describes as her wish list is a share.


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## Mama Sass

Elles said:


> Another possibility is a share. Your daughter could maybe share a horse or pony and pay towards his keep, arranging specific times and days that the pony is 'hers'. This can work very well, especially if the pony is kept at a riding school where she can have lessons and if the owner is having lessons there too. In this instance the owner would be ultimately responsible for the pony, but your daughter would have 'her' pony and without sharing with riding school lessons. I find this can be a good introduction to the realities of ponyship, without jumping in at the deep end.
> 
> Again it would have to be very carefully considered, but it's normally easier to get out of if it doesn't work from either end and less responsibility than a full loan or purchase. It can be great fun too buying stuff for 'your' pony, so maybe your daughter could have a special purple numnah to use when she rode and a matching head-collar, that kind of thing.
> 
> Another possibility to consider. There may even be a livery already at the school who would consider a share. I would talk to people.


Yeah our riding school doesn't so sharing but we can live in hope! There doesn't seem to be anywhere local enough that does it but I am putting the feelers out.



Wiz201 said:


> I think the OP said the riding school couldn't share their own ponies out, but its worth asking round the liveries.
> Other than that, it might be worth saving some money for a year and buying your own. As she's 14 (is she slim? tall?) I would look at either a chunky 13 - 14hh pony (when I say chunky, I mean chunky legs) or even a 14 - 15hh cob as they are cheap to keep and live on fresh air. Have a look round on the adverts, you may be pleasently surprised at how low some prices are.


Funnily enough I have been looking at horses for sale and I was surprised at the prices of the ponies that were suitable. So the other possibility I've thought of is leaving it a couple of years until she's 16 and then look at buying a pony for her (gives us a chance to save up too!). She has her GCSE's coming up so taking on a huge commitment just as they're starting might not be the best idea. It will also mean she's a bit more independent in a couple of years and can be left to her own devices a bit more.

Like I've said it's all food for thought. We're at the stables again tomorrow so will have a chat with the yard manager again and take it from there.

Many thanks for your help.


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## Mama Sass

By the way, any advice as to what she could do in the meantime if we decide not get her own pony just yet?

They have a waiting list at her riding school for helpers at the weekends and she's on that (so far nothing doing). She is doing a pony week in the holidays (we had tears last year when the pony week ended). She's still having her weekly lessons but that's about it.

Which is best? Should she hack out more or keep on with the lessons in the school do you think? She is getting a bit bored of going round and round the school but at the same time her the riding instructor says that's where you do all your learning in a safe environment before you take it elsewhere? Would some private one to one lessons make her feel like she was doing more?

As usual, any advice would be gratefully received.


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## Wiz201

Mama Sass said:


> Funnily enough I have been looking at horses for sale and I was surprised at the prices of the ponies that were suitable. So the other possibility I've thought of is leaving it a couple of years until she's 16 and then look at buying a pony for her (gives us a chance to save up too!). She has her GCSE's coming up so taking on a huge commitment just as they're starting might not be the best idea. It will also mean she's a bit more independent in a couple of years and can be left to her own devices a bit more.


Good plan, it can be a reward for doing the exams? so good incentive to do all that studying.
When I was her age, I did pony club for a couple of years with my riding school, so I got extra riding practice and because I helped out, I got rides for free. It was the best couple of years of riding I got. So I would look into doing pony club or something. Hacking out is good - I got my road riding experience during those two years and pony club hold specific tests that she can take.


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## Mama Sass

Wiz201 said:


> Good plan, it can be a reward for doing the exams? so good incentive to do all that studying.
> When I was her age, I did pony club for a couple of years with my riding school, so I got extra riding practice and because I helped out, I got rides for free. It was the best couple of years of riding I got. So I would look into doing pony club or something. Hacking out is good - I got my road riding experience during those two years and pony club hold specific tests that she can take.


Yes, hadn't thought it could be an incentive to study harder! I like your thinking!

She's also going to be starting Duke of Edinburgh Bronze Award in September and will be using horsemanship and stable management as one of her activities. Her riding school have said she can do it there so that's another thing that might keep her occupied!


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## happytailsbb

remember to tell the owner of any potential loan pony that it will be used in the riding school. If I was loaning my pony I would not want it being pulled about in a riding school so just be aware other owners may feel the same.


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## Mama Sass

happytailsbb said:


> remember to tell the owner of any potential loan pony that it will be used in the riding school. If I was loaning my pony I would not want it being pulled about in a riding school so just be aware other owners may feel the same.


Thanks. Have to say after careful consideration (and taking on board all the helpful advice from here!) we are beginning to steer away from the pony loan idea, feels like there's too many variables for it to be safe option.

Think we'll wait and look at buying one when she's a bit older and also look at options for keeping her occupied in the meantime.


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## lilythepink

some very good ponies around at not too expensive prices and some will come with tack.

If you are not planning on getting a pony vetted, take somebody with you who knows what they are doing.

good luck


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## Wiz201

I would always get a pony vetted before buying, not worth the risk imo.


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## Hanwombat

We never had our first horse Hollie vetted because we loaned her and had known her years and now ten years on shes been great, she is retired now due to a spinal problem but thats just one of them things.

But any horse in the future I'd get vetted.


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## newfiesmum

StormyThai said:


> If I am perfectly honest I will never, ever be a loanee or a loaner again.
> 
> There are some good sides, and there are some success stories...However, in my experience loans never work out.
> 
> From the loanee side I have had horses sold from under my nose (it is still their horse so they have a right to do as they wish), One was stolon in the middle of the night and others have just been taken back after the owners have seen the amount of work I put in...Oh and lets not forget the one I couldn't give back, that was an interesting one
> 
> And then from the loaner side I have had to take horses back due to the loanee not providing the care and/or respect that was needed...
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are some good loaner's/loanee's out there, they are just few and far between is all :sneaky2:


I couldn't agree more. We had a NF pony who was getting on a bit but still good for hacking. We loaned her, gave specific instructions about her diet. She lost loads of weight in winter and needed barley to keep the weight on, which they promised to give her. She also had a Chaskit rug, really expensive because they are lightweight, yet warm and don't slip. This was so that her back wasn't carrying too much weight. These people took her and a friend rang me to say she had seen her with a heavy, cheap old NZ rug on and limping. So we went down and the woman wasn't giving her barley because her friend said she only needed hay, and she didn't like the look of the chaskit. Luckily we had taken the lorry so she came straight home.

OP, not saying you would do that, but be careful. First of all make sure she is properly insured by the owners or you could come unstuck if the horse needs medical treatment. I wouldn't do it again.


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## Mia123

i'd say, if you find something go for it! not to make you loose all hope or anything, but i have been looking for a horse for loan for two years and unfortunately all i've come across is a tonne of lying time-wasting owners. only started looking at a few for sale and already found my dream horse with lovely owners (haven't seen him yet but communication with owner is so much better) and unfortunately barely anyone want to loan their horses out anymore to be moved due to bad experienced such as stolen horses so even if you are genuine, its hard to find an owner you would allow their horse to move.

pros: feeling of having 'own horse'
freedom and responsibility
no starting cost of horse

cons: horse could be taken away with no warning.
lots of pressure to show horse owner that he will be well cared for.
starting cost is actually nothing compared to upkeep of a horse, so not as good value for money.

sorry if it was a bit vague, but all im trying to say is that if you find a good horse with good owners, draw up a contract and go for it.


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