# Rabbit breathing very fast, head ripped back



## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I'm really hoping to get some advice on my lovely mini rex rabbit. He is neutered and is fully vaccinated. He has been fit and healthy until this morning. I went out as usual and he just didn't look right. On closer inspection he has his head permanently tipped upwards and is breathing very very fast and hard. I rushed him straight to the vet who couldn't find anything wrong and have given him anti inflammatory and antibiotic injections. She couldn't even count his heart rate as it was so so fast and she also said it was abnormal, ie could hear a murmur and noises. She suspects congenial heart problem but has told us there is nothing further we can do. Does anyone know what this could be? Also, he has rapidly lost weight, hard to tell due to his plush coat but he is now much lighter when weighed. Thank you in advance for any help. He is home now and is eating, drinking and moving around but I don't want him to suffer.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Sorry your rabbit isn't well, I can't offer any suggestions but hope he recovers.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I would find yourself an exotic vet and fast.
Not all vets are up to date in treating rabbits, and for yours to say there is nothing to be done without even running tests rings huge alarm bells for me 

It could be many things, but as the rabbit is mouth breathing he needs to be given oxygen ASAP.

Where are you in the country? We may be able to point you in the right direction.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi,

Thank you. We are in the South East. Unfortunately we are in no position to travel to find a specialist vet. We have 26 week premature twins in intensive care and no transport. We are at the hospital all the time. The vet said she could not find anything wrong and further tests is too stressful for the rabbit. She said there is nothing further to be done. He has had the anti inflammatory and antibiotic. If you could point me in the right direction I could phone another vet and ask advice?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Where abouts in the SE it's a large area so I need to narrow it down a bit.

Of course further test will cause stress, but so will leaving things as they are


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Sorry, it's worthing, West Sussex, thank you


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

The vet said that its either infection or congenial heart condition. If it's infection the treatment should work, if not he will likely die. I just don't want him to suffer.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Give these guys a call http://www.heeneroadvets.co.uk/Exotic-Pets1526.html they may be able to help.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Thank you. They are closed but I tried the emergency vet which is a different practice and they said I would need to bring him, which I can't do. I will call the one you suggested first thing tomorrow.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I would do your best to get in touch with a rabbit savvy vet, although I appreciate this is difficult for you right now.

Alternatively, If you can't get to a rabbit savvy vet, you could I would ask your vet to talk to an exotic specialist. They must have a link with someone, and they sound out of their depth. A rabbit savvy vet could advise them how best to treat.

Yes, it could be a heart problem, a respiratory issue or a tumour near the heart (thymoma. We have had/have buns with both, and there are treatments.

Your bun has his head up because he is straining to get more oxygen in.

Did the vet look at your bun's gums to see if they were blue?

I would have expected the vet to have admitted and put bun on oxygen in the short term, as a matter of urgency.

Then try and work out the underlying cause.

There are a variety of treatments, depending on cause. Rabbits can be nebulised, given antibiotics, painkillers/anti inflammatories, bronchodilators and anti histamines, all of which can help breathing. There are medications for heart issues too.

I hope you can get better vet care for poor bun. Whilst there is a lot you can do at home, you can't do much at all without a diagnosis.

Do let us now how you get on.

The fact that he is eating and drinking is good - he hasn't given up yet.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Thank you very much. I spoke to the emergency vet attached to our surgery and he said he needed to refer our bun to the specialist unit in Surrey. Just the referral and admission is 380 plus vat. We would have to pay an animal courier to take him at a huge cost. Sadly we just don't have the funds as due to the premature birth of our twins I lost out on 3 months pay and so did my partner and the costs are ongoing. If he is no better tomorrow or looks like he is suffering we will have him put to sleep, unless the vet can offer any further investigations without seeing a specialist. It is so sad.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

If there is something that can be done would you consider handing the rabbit over to rescue so that he could receive treatment, instead of PTS?


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

I did call 2 rescues but they said they wouldn't be able to afford investigative treatment for a rabbit. They can take rabbits who need treatment for a specific condition or rabbits with an existing condition but investigations are too expensive. My partner went home to check him again this morning and he is much the same but is eating, drinking and hopping about. We will re assess tonight.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

I feel so guilty. We have insurance for our cats but not bunnies as we both earn decent salaries and can always afford vet bills. However, when our twins arrived so premature they needed very specialist care at a London intensive care and once I was discharged we had to stay in London as there was no charity house such as Ronald McDonald for the hospital. It cost over 1000 a week. We are now at a different hospital with a charity house which is better but my partner has now racked up 3 months unpaid leave and I had to start maternity pay the day they were born. So we have been without an income and huge expenses for over 3 months. I only wanted to put this as I didn't want anyone to think we just had pets without being responsible and being able to afford them. We are both devastated and if we weren't in the hospital all the time and had the finances we would just pay whatever it took and find anyone to help him.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Bunnymadhatters said:


> I did call 2 rescues but they said they wouldn't be able to afford investigative treatment for a rabbit. They can take rabbits who need treatment for a specific condition or rabbits with an existing condition but investigations are too expensive. My partner went home to check him again this morning and he is much the same but is eating, drinking and hopping about. We will re assess tonight.


I'm not asking you to find a rescue, I am asking if you would hand him over so that he can get treatment.
I'm not sure which rescues you have tried but I am certain you haven't asked who I am referring too 

This rabbit needs to see a rabbit savvy vet now, not tonight, not tomorrow, but now.
Whilst I can appreciate your predicament with new twins, there are other ways to get the rabbit treated so long as you relinquish ownership...leaving a rabbit struggling to breath isn't fair or moral.

All you have to do is give me the thumbs up to help and I will get on with contacting who I need to.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi everyone, just wanted to update with some good news! Bun is a little better. He is still breathing fast but head no longer tipped back and he is eating drinking and hopping around his run. His breeder who is very respected in the rabbit world came and saw him and said he is clearly not in pain - he snuggled her demanding treats! Hopefully the antibiotics are working. She said it could have been something called snuffles that responded to antibiotics because it was caught quickly. Anyway here's hoping for a full recovery asap. Thanks for your help!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

That's good news! "Snuffles" can be caused by a number of different pathogens, so maybe it was one that responds well to broad-spectrum ABs, and was indeed caught in time. Who is her breeder?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Umm, I don't mean to pick but....

If it was snuffles there is zero chance you would be seeing an improvement without aggressive treatment (baytril (which is what you would have been given) is not strong enough to treat snuffles. Snuffles is a lifelong illness, and you would have had a huge amount of green snot as the nasal abscesses burst.

He is still suffering if he is still struggling to breath and quite frankly the breeder doesn't seem to know much either if snuffles came up and they weren't concerned by a rabbit mouth breathing :/


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

He isn't and hasn't been mouth breathing. He has been breathing very fast with head tipped back. He is no longer tipping his head back and his breathing is not laboured just quick. He hasn't had baytril and his breeder said that snuffles does not also present with runny nose in her experience. Anyway, he is not suffering. He is hopping around, wanting fuss, demanding treats etc and everything I have read and vets I have spoken to all said if he was suffering he wouldn't eat or drink. I'm just happy he is getting better.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Bunnymadhatters said:


> Hi everyone, just wanted to update with some good news! Bun is a little better. He is still breathing fast but head no longer tipped back and he is eating drinking and hopping around his run. His breeder who is very respected in the rabbit world came and saw him and said he is clearly not in pain - he snuggled her demanding treats! Hopefully the antibiotics are working. She said it could have been something called snuffles that responded to antibiotics because it was caught quickly. Anyway here's hoping for a full recovery asap. Thanks for your help!


You're obviously having a very difficult time, with your twins born prem, and all the havoc and stress that creates, never mind the financial impact it causes. I am sure they are getting the best of care, though, and I hope they thrive and come through this well.

As for your rabbit, it is good that he is eating and drinking and pooing, and even better that he is showing some signs of improvement, but if he is tilting his head up to breathe, he is in serious distress.

When are you due to go back to the vets with him?

We have had a few buns with breathing difficulties - some with thymoma (the tumour causes pressure on the heart), a couple with heart problems, a bun that choked on a pellet (before our eyes, fortunately), a couple with allergies, one with unknown problem despite tests. Currently, we nebulise 3 buns and medicate others. All have a very good quality of life.So it s doable, but it is time consuming and very expensive.

Snuffles is a general, old fashioned term, not a real diagnosis. Does your rabbit actually have a runny nose, or matted fur on its front legs?

Something you can do at home is remove any shavings or sawdust, as they are known to aggravate any respiratory issues.

PLease please keep a close eye on his breathing - tilting head up is an extreme sign of a serious problem. Also keep an eye on his nose for how quickly he is breathing, watch his flanks for erratic breathing and , watch his mouth and lips in case they turn blue. All these are critical signs of a rabbit in distress.

Stormythai is an expert in rabbit care and can help you and your bun if you let her, if you are unable to cover the cost of vet care yourself at the moment. An RSPCA "rescue" would just put you bun down, but there are sanctuaries out there that take on the trickiest of cases.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Rabbits will initially develop a watery nasal discharge followed by sneezing and then a thick, whitish to yellowish nasal discharge. These infected rabbits will often make a loud snuffling or snoring sound due to the fluid and mucous in their nasal tracts

His breeder is talking rubbish, it is not snuffles (Pasturella) if there are no nasal issues.

I am pleased he is appearing to get better, but don't count your chickens before your eggs hatch. Rabbits will often have a time of appearing to get better before they take a turn for the worse.
If he has heart issues or an infection causing him to struggle to get oxygen in then he needs more treatment than an injection of a broad spectrum anti B


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for all your advice. We will watch him and if he gets worse we will take him back to the vets. He looks much better at the moment, my partner has just text to say he is breathing slower now. We are so relieved.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Still interested to know who the breeder is (can message me in private).


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Increase in breathing tempo can also be a sign of pain. Rabbits are fantastic at hiding pain and distress. I lost one recently, he had 2 midde ear abscesses and the only signs were in the last few days of his life, maybe an increased breathing rate for a week about a month prior to that. I honestly think the breeder and the vet are barking up the wrong tree if the breathing is as you describe. Plus Snuffles would have been apparent from a thorough vet examination? 
You both have your hands seriously full at the mo & will do for the forseeable future. I know the rescue Stormythai is referring to and your bun couldn't find a better place to care for him. It really would be worth considering. If you are going to have 2 prem babies to look after then you will find your spare time for looking after what could be a sick rabbit very scarce.


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## Bunnymadhatters (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for all your help. He did improve but we felt this morning that he still wasn't himself so went back to the vets. They said that his heart sounds extremely abnormal and he is losing condition. They said the only option would be to do some x rays or scans which require full sedation and in their opinion with a heart sounding like his he would not survive. They also said that ethically it would be unfair to put a rabbit through the trauma of that kind of investigation, which we wholeheartedly agree with. He has had a lovely life and we have done the kindest thing for him sending him off to sleep.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry for your loss. Poor lad :-(


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

So sorry for your loss.

His problem would have been hard to manage with everything else you have going on in the family.

I hope your babies do well and things get easier for you.

Binky free little bun.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I am sorry that things didn't work out, you did your best, to help the little guy. 

When I needed to contact a rabbit savvy vet, I posted on here and contacted a local rescue by email to ask which vet they use, it was the same vet who StormyThai recommended.

My two are registered with our Local Vet and Crab Lane Vets - when I was faced with a dire emergency, Crab Lane Vets liaised with our Local Vets.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Very sorry to hear this, RIP little one. I hope your twins are doing well. I don't remember the vets in worthing beig great with rabbits but it's been 10 years since I lived there. 

Just to add rapid breathing can be a sign of heat stroke which would not be uncommon in the current temperatures if the hutch was in full sun.


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