# Water spray



## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

Water spray, has anyone tried this? Does it work, I have an 8 week old cocker spaniel, NO doesn't seem to work and was wondering about this method.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Sorry I've never used any adversion training, I just praise the behaviour I want fom my dogs and ignore or distract from unwanted behaviour - so sorry I can't comment, maybe someone who's used it sucsessfully will come along soon.


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## griffpan (Feb 2, 2008)

hiya i personally wouldn't use this method myself. simply because of what happened to a mate of mine. 
she used to use a water spray and it worked it did stop the unwanted behaviour, but when she wanted to spot clean her dog using a spray thing the poor dog was in bits, he was confused and couldn't understand why he was being reprimanded


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2008)

Have I read this correctly,your thinking of spraying an 8 week old puppy with water  Why ?

He's a baby for gods sake,you need to train him,using the ignore bad behaviour and praise and reward the good,at 8 weeks old he won't understand anything yet!
It's takes time and patience to train pups not a quick fix solution like spraying with water,if I was his breeder I would be horrified that a new owner was even thinking about such a thing at such a young age.


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

Oops i think ive been using my water spray wrong  my lot love it and all line up for a go  just have to watch Alfie doesnt get too close or he butts you in the belly when he jumps for it  best one is spraying the floor and watching them run after it 

Try the distraction,work out what he/she loves and use that.

Pups do love to experiment,door frames, table legs,socks you are wearing etc.. and as they dont know any different can only learn from you.

You just have to have eyes in your butt and constantly be one step ahead.
It will seem like they take forever to learn sometimes.

What problems are you having?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

My advice would be to persist in using the word no.

Also try using positive training when puppy does something right reward him with praise and treats.

Your puppy is 8 weeks old how old were you when you understood the meaning of words/sounds, so give him another few weeks. It takes a little time before they get the message. 

Sue


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> Water spray, has anyone tried this? Does it work, I have an 8 week old cocker spaniel, NO doesn't seem to work and was wondering about this method.


What do you mean NO doesn't work? Have you taught him what NO means? Please don't use a water spray on a 8 week old puppy.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

If your puppy is now only 8 weeks old, I would think you haven't had him very long. So he probably hasn't learnt what the command "NO" means, you need to teach him. If you find that too difficult to do after a good time, then like others said you need to reward good behaviour and ignore/correct bad behaviour. He's very young and everything is fun and new to him. He's just exploring and experimenting, even if you do find it annoying wrong.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

What exactly are you using the water spray for, I am assuming it is for some kind of distraction?
regards
sue


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## Methical (Jul 11, 2008)

If its teaching the pup what the word "no" means that your having issues with then i would advice the following, i have had only one dog, and she is 14months old so i am no seasoned expert but i also had issues getting Daisy to stop doing stuff i didnt want her to do round the house.

When you see her doing something you dont want her to, make a kinda "hup!" sound, dong scream it, the whole sound should only last half a second but make it loud-ish.....maybe not so loud if its a lil puppy. Usually they will jump at whatever they were smelling, clawing, chewing and Daisy seemed to belive that it was the object that made the scary sound. She used to chew the valve at the top of the gas cylinder in my garden  but she stopped that using this method. I did try positive training methods but all that taught her is that if shes doing something wrong, and i say no, she has all the time in the world to do what she wishes and above all, she can do what she wants AND get a treat after it.

Anyway, make the "hup!" sound and then when the puppy looks at you or something, in a firm yet loving tone say "No". Will take about a week to get it working solidly depending on how sharp the pup is i guess. Even then smells that Daisy REALLY likes or in the presence of a squirrel, No does not work.

Additional tips, try not to let the puppy figure out that it is you that is making the "hup!" sound, it really works much better if she / he thinks certain object make scary noises when played with.

Hope it helps...


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have never myself owned a dog before, (I was brought up with a dog that was absolutely brilliant). I saw this method in the RSPCA training book and assumed that this was a well thought of method. (Clearly I was wrong), I brought Bailey home last Friday, he has done amazingly, I treat him when he has been good and in the last 24 hours has almost learned to poo and wee in the garden. He loves his crate and for someone who hasn't owned or even trained a dog before though I'd done quite well (and with a bad back). 

I wouldn't strike a dog and DO believe in giving praise, as I have done. My main reason for asking is that I have a two year old daughter and don't want him biting her now or in the future, I do understand that this will take time and am being patient with him (even when he had pooed on my lovely new carpet) This I dont even mind, but I do want to get the biting thing dealt with ASAP. I play with Bailey in the garden with the water hoes and he loves it, I assumed that a water spray would just distract him from this behaviour not use it as discipline, I have used my spray on my daughter and she thinks it's hilarious so it obviously doesn't hurt, which was not my point in the first place. He quite enjoys it really.... Im sorry if I offended anyone, but Im really not being cruel to him, and wouldn't. I dont smack or even shout at him for doing wrong.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

Methical said:


> If its teaching the pup what the word "no" means that your having issues with then i would advice the following, i have had only one dog, and she is 14months old so i am no seasoned expert but i also had issues getting Daisy to stop doing stuff i didnt want her to do round the house.
> 
> When you see her doing something you dont want her to, make a kinda "hup!" sound, dong scream it, the whole sound should only last half a second but make it loud-ish.....maybe not so loud if its a lil puppy. Usually they will jump at whatever they were smelling, clawing, chewing and Daisy seemed to belive that it was the object that made the scary sound. She used to chew the valve at the top of the gas cylinder in my garden  but she stopped that using this method. I did try positive training methods but all that taught her is that if shes doing something wrong, and i say no, she has all the time in the world to do what she wishes and above all, she can do what she wants AND get a treat after it.
> 
> ...


That is really helpful thank you for that, I shall try this first and get back to you on his progress.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> That is really helpful thank you for that, I shall try this first and get back to you on his progress.


Let us know how he gets on 

What breed is your new puppy? You sound like a good puppy dad!


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

There is an article here that explains puppy biting and how to deal with it, and will help, but you do have to follow it 110% consistently.

The Bite Stops Here

As your daughter is unlikely to be ale to follow the advice given at her age, I would only let the puppy near her under very strict supervision. The problem with children and puppies is that the puppy does somethign we don't liek them doing, be that jumping up, or biting, and the child naturally behaves in a way that is exciting for the puppy, usually screaming and waving their hands about, so the puppy continues or the behaviour escalates.

Work on giving your puppy a good recall in the house, so that if puppy does get over-excited with your daughter and she can't deal with it herself, you can simply call puppy over to you.


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## Mattie (Aug 9, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> Water spray, has anyone tried this? Does it work, I have an 8 week old cocker spaniel, NO doesn't seem to work and was wondering about this method.


Water spray doesn't work it is also a punishment and when you use punishment to train your dog it takes a lot longer than more positive methods. Clicker training is very good especially for puppies.

You are also teaching your pup to be frightened of you, is that what you really want?

Would you use a water spray on a toddler when they didn't do as you ask? It is the same thing, like the toddler, a puppy has to be taught what we want of them.

Clicker training really is good for both owner and pup, it also strengthen the bond between you unlike using a water spray, that destroys the bond and make the pup frightened.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> I have never myself owned a dog before, (I was brought up with a dog that was absolutely brilliant). I saw this method in the RSPCA training book and assumed that this was a well thought of method. (Clearly I was wrong), I brought Bailey home last Friday, he has done amazingly, I treat him when he has been good and in the last 24 hours has almost learned to poo and wee in the garden. He loves his crate and for someone who hasn't owned or even trained a dog before though I'd done quite well (and with a bad back).
> 
> I wouldn't strike a dog and DO believe in giving praise, as I have done. My main reason for asking is that I have a two year old daughter and don't want him biting her now or in the future, I do understand that this will take time and am being patient with him (even when he had pooed on my lovely new carpet) This I dont even mind, but I do want to get the biting thing dealt with ASAP. I play with Bailey in the garden with the water hoes and he loves it, I assumed that a water spray would just distract him from this behaviour not use it as discipline, I have used my spray on my daughter and she thinks it's hilarious so it obviously doesn't hurt, which was not my point in the first place. He quite enjoys it really.... Im sorry if I offended anyone, but Im really not being cruel to him, and wouldn't. I dont smack or even shout at him for doing wrong.


Don't think you have offended anyone, just a case of having to have 'broad shoulders' some of us are quite curt with our replies, it is not that anyone is trying to be nasty, just sometimes some of us don't think when replying, we just tend to babble on and say it as it sounds.
If you pup is jumping up your daughter it is also a case of training your 2 year old, telling her not to run and squel, even when playing as pups tend to think it;s a game, the water willl I doubt be having any effect whatsoever in stopping this anyway. sure you have done wonders already and will continue to do so. Just keep asking questions - take it on the chin if you don't like the replies, but come back tomorrow and ask more, there'll be no bad feeling, just good sound advise!
regards
sue


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

Im sorry but I have to disagree with you. I would never recomend a water spray. It causes fear and it is a punishment, no matter how you describe it. Why rule your dog through fear when there are other ways of altering behaviours. Its completely unnecessary. Particually if you then use spays for other things (such as plants, even air freshners or polish etc) as the noise can then scare your dog when it is infact doing nothing wrong. This could then lead to confussion and in some circumstances aggression. In my opinion it is not worth the risk.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

Please don't use a spray bottle on your little puppy! There are far better ways to train a puppy.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

I didnt mean to imply you may use aerosols as punishment, I just meant some have a similar noise and this may scare them if the spray has been used to either punish and/or deter them. 

Spays do scare dogs, maybe not of the owners but with behaviour in question. Using the chewing as an example, the dog chews the object and gets sprayed behind the ears. Doest hurt but its not pleasent, this keeps happening and the dog then learns that chewing said object results in a wet ear the dog may then fear the object or decide the object is evil and needs killing, resulting in more chewing. If you make a mistake and the dog sees you spaying the water at it, it could turn out to be you its chewing. Not exactly pleasent as far as im concerned. That is why I would never recomend it, there are risks involved.

Dogs of a nervous disposition anyway will become more fearfull and those that are either scared or angry may become aggressive. I just dont think its worth attempting. Particually when there are other methods that are much friendlier.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

Thank you all for your comments, I always find different ideas very helpful. I have to say that I dont find my spray harmful, its like shouting no, its just a way of breaking a behaviour, its was bought empty and doesn't contain any harmful substainses, it is silent not making one bit of noise and won't relate it to anything. 

I have to say though I did read this in the RSPCA training manual and I sure they wouldn't advise something if it was harmful to a dog's personality in any way. 

I will try other methods first, but do see this as a viable option and not harmful. If anyone has used it and has found it harmful or useful Im really up for your comments.

I do have a broad shoulder as a police officer I think I naturally have that but I do have a heart and wouldn't do anything to my pup that I really felt was un-called for. 

Thanks again


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Let us know how he gets on
> 
> What breed is your new puppy? You sound like a good puppy dad!


He's a Tan Cocker Spaniel, he's lovely. Were very happy with him.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> Hi,
> 
> You didn't make it clear what it is that you are trying to stop your puppy from doing, but in relation to inappropriate chewing, the following in a excerpt from Gwen Bailey's book 'The Perfect Puppy'
> 
> ...


This makes sense. I actually feel more comfortable about this than shouting at him.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't think you have offended anyone, just a case of having to have 'broad shoulders' some of us are quite curt with our replies, it is not that anyone is trying to be nasty, just sometimes some of us don't think when replying, we just tend to babble on and say it as it sounds.
> If you pup is jumping up your daughter it is also a case of training your 2 year old, telling her not to run and squel, even when playing as pups tend to think it;s a game, the water willl I doubt be having any effect whatsoever in stopping this anyway. sure you have done wonders already and will continue to do so. Just keep asking questions - take it on the chin if you don't like the replies, but come back tomorrow and ask more, there'll be no bad feeling, just good sound advise!
> regards
> sue


Thanks sue, Cydney (my daugher) is very good, we have tried to spend as much time around people with Dogs, it think it is very important for kids, she understands as much as a two year old can. To be fair on both of them, there only doing what their naturally supposed to do, it just me trying to train both of them to not do what naturally comes to them.

I dont mind people's replies I was just expecting people to tell me there experience rather than opinions. But hey Im up for anything, that's why I have a dog.


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## 6660carrie (Jul 28, 2008)

Although tiring, I just treated Max like a toddler! When he tried to eat the plants,steal my shoes,chew the chairs etc, (Remote Controls were his favourite)I just said a firm NO and removed him from the object and give him one of his toys instead to play with. I have never moved objects away from him just keep removing him and eventually he just got the message, if I said NO he just left it alone. Have to be a bit patient though!!


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> I have to say though I did read this in the RSPCA training manual and I sure they wouldn't advise something if it was harmful to a dog's personality in any way.


The RSCPA, hmmmm, now why doesn't that surprise me! Too busy giving crap advice to be any real help.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> The RSCPA, hmmmm, now why doesn't that surprise me! Too busy giving crap advice to be any real help.


What do you mean?


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## Mattie (Aug 9, 2008)

I have seen the damage a water spray can do to a pup as well as an adult dog, it does damage the bond, it also stops a pup from bonding to the owner and I have seen an adult dog go for the owner when he used a water spray and done considerable damage to his face.

I am not interested in what others write about, they are going on their experiences, I am going on mine. 

Many people who ask advice on these forums have never had a dog before, they don't know about body language or timing, but are expected to know them to train their dogs.

There are other ways to train your dog or your puppy.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Mattie said:


> I have seen the damage a water spray can do to a pup as well as an adult dog, it does damage the bond, it also stops a pup from bonding to the owner and I have seen an adult dog go for the owner when he used a water spray and done considerable damage to his face.
> 
> I am not interested in what others write about, they are going on their experiences, I am going on mine.
> 
> ...


I agree entirely. Some 'trainers' get away with some methods due to their experience. Someone less experienced may run into a whole lot of FAR worse problems using the same methods.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

All i'm concerned about is about my daughter, unfortunatly he goes for all of us and i've tried no in most occations as this is easer and you can do right on time, unlike anything else, i tried holding him around his mussle once (as suggested earlier) he turned very nasy growling and biting more, I wont be doing this again as I don't feel Im trainined very well in this method and felt he was worse after. I'm holding out on the spray at this moment. 

Can someone explain to me how they acctually learn NO??? (and when).

Im not ashamed to admit I dont know how to train a dog, we all started somewhere once! 

He goes for fingers and toes, how do you deal with this??????


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> All i'm concerned about is about my daughter, unfortunatly he goes for all of us and i've tried no in most occations as this is easer and you can do right on time, unlike anything else, i tried holding him around his mussle once (as suggested earlier) he turned very nasy growling and biting more, I wont be doing this again as I don't feel Im trainined very well in this method and felt he was worse after. I'm holding out on the spray at this moment.
> 
> Can someone explain to me how they acctually learn NO??? (and when).
> 
> ...


Have you read the article I linked?

Your puppy is no 'going for' you, although I appreciate the play can seem aggessive at times, but it is merely play. Very normal, healthy and _desirable_ in my opinion, as it gives the opportunity to teach bite inhibition, which is very important.

The problem with saying 'no' or taking action like holding the muzzle closed (something I would never advocate or do) is that it can make th epuppy more excited, or even frighten the puppy, which may lead to a more serious bite.

If you follow the advic ein the article i linked, it WILL work, but you need otbe consistent, us only that one method and give it a little time. You should start to notice a difference quite quickly though, and it is quite fun for all the family to decide who can do the best 'yelp'.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

This is the thing I dont think Im being consistent, I think because Im so desperate for this to stop, Im panicking and just either shouting, getting fed up and just doing things out of desperation. I'm more oftern that not saying NO. Everything else Im just not so bothered about so Im more consistent, he's happy in his crate, he's not peeing or pooing in the house (only a few accidents, mainly wee, and this is only because I have a bad back and cant get to him in time, but he's going straight out as soon as he attempts and accident.

I understand he's only playing but Im just finding it hard in the timings as well as the right method. Everyone has an opinion and its having the comon sense to balance between treating him like a dog and treating him with kindness....


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> its having the comon sense to balance between treating him like a dog and treating him with kindness....


These two things are the same. The more you love, praise, play and reward your puppy the more he will respect and love you back thus following your every command. 

If I squirted by pups with a water pistol or raised a hand to them they would think I was playing because thats how I've conditioned them to think, in my opinion that's how every dog should be, there is NEVER a need to use negative methods for training.

Yes you have to train them to stop the undesirable behaviour but this can and is done in a positive way. The link Jackson has provided offers very comprehensive advice on how to deal with this problem without squirting your puppy with a water pistol.

Last night I bathed one of my dogs and realised that the noise the shampoo squirter makes is simular to the noise made by a water spray or the like, just one thing that your puppy could learn to assosciate with the noise that will cause problems further down the line.

*PLEASE DO NOT USE A WATER SPRAY ON YOUR PUPPY!!!*

I must admit the name dogpositivetraining is puzzling me as you are promoting negative training methods in many of your posts.


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## houndies (Aug 8, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> *PLEASE DO NOT USE A WATER SPRAY ON YOUR PUPPY!!!*
> 
> I must admit the name dogpositivetraining is puzzling me as you are promoting negative training methods in many of your posts.


Ditto. 
No matter what you call or describe it as it is still an aversive.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> These two things are the same. The more you love, praise, play and reward your puppy the more he will respect and love you back thus following your every command.
> 
> *PLEASE DO NOT USE A WATER SPRAY ON YOUR PUPPY!!!*
> 
> I must admit the name dogpositivetraining is puzzling me as you are promoting negative training methods in many of your posts.


I agree entirely. No need to use aversives to train dogs at all.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> That may be your opinion houndies, but Both I and my clients have well-behaved happy dogs.
> 
> I really don't see how the method written about and recommended by Gwen Bailey is negative. It's not done in a way to hurt or harm a dog/puppy. As I have said dogs learn by consequence and association of their actions.
> 
> ...


I think we have all heard of Gwen Bailey. Myself and my husband have both met her. I have never heard of her advocaing clamping apupies mouth shut to stop play biting though.

The trick is, to look into the methods of lots of trainers and behaviourists and then draw your own conclusions, not just one. 

Plenty of people I know claim to have hapy, well behaved dogs. What they have is shut down dogs.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

can i just add this...when i was young ( a long time ago) i used to walk a nieghbours collie, great dog very friendly..i did this every day.then i took her out and some kids sqerted water at her...she would never come out with me again..


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

Ild neva use water spray on a pup becoz they still ave so much to learn in a positive way.

But..i must admit....my sis used it on her ebt who was a bloody nightmare ( she is 2 years old )...and its worked a treat  weve only gotta show her the bottle and she stops wat ever shes doing thats wrong and neva does it again lol 

i repeat..i wouldnt do it on a pup tho.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Ild neva use water spray on a pup becoz they still ave so much to learn in a positive way.
> 
> But..i must admit....my sis used it on her ebt who was a bloody nightmare ( she is 2 years old )...and its worked a treat  weve only gotta show her the bottle and she stops wat ever shes doing thats wrong and neva does it again lol
> 
> i repeat..i wouldnt do it on a pup tho.


heh heh - your sis' ebt reminded me of Calli. She's a swine for barking when people come to the house - we did try (in depseration!) using a water spray to try to stop her barking but she just thinks it's a game and barks even more while she jumps about trying to catch the spray! 

Like you tho, I'd never use it on a puppy!


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

Janice, was it the water or was it the nasty kids (I would have thought they were shouting as kids do when doing things like this) that the dog was scared off???

To be fair to dogpositive,,, I think you have misinterpreted what she has actually written into something that was really nasty, which was not the case, a SMALL water spray, makes NO noise, Bailey quite enjoys it hence him stopping the destructive thing he doing and what he's doing isn't nice for my fingers, my daughers fingers, toes etc... and if I say no in a sturn voice surely he will think well your a missery guts and I dont like your tone, pushing him away from me.... Unless I'm wrong but surely shouting no to a dog is more harmful to you and your dogs relationship that a tiny harmful bit of water, which he doesn't relate to you at all and isn't even unpleasant, unless you have one of those huge double barrelled water pistols, then I think that is a little un-called for. 

I do think anyone trying these methods needs to see a profesional and get trained though. I dont have a clue so ignoring the bad praising the good is what Im going for at the moment. Well see how it goes.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> I do think anyone trying these methods needs to see a profesional and get trained though. I dont have a clue so ignoring the bad praising the good is what Im going for at the moment. Well see how it goes.


The reason aversive methods or negative re-inforcement should not be used by people who are inexperienced is this. Aversives and negative re-inforcement work because the dog is trying to avoid whatever is going to happen, be that water spray, spray collar, yank on the lead, whatever. The dog views the aversive as unpleasant, whether that is being described as 'suprising' the dog or whatever, the dog doesn't like it, otherwise it wouldn't work. Some inexperienced and who doesn't fully understand canince body language could easily mis-interpret the dogs reasons for behaving in a certain way, or get the timing wrong. For example, if you're using a spray collar, (which has been mentioned on thsi thread) and your dog happens ot be noticing your child in the second you spray it, especially if this inadvertantly happened more than once, which is a distinct possibility, then the dog coudl associate the unpleasant experience witht he child an dthen develop a strong dislike to the child, possibly even escalating, depending on the aversive used, how the dog views the aversive and what the dogs original reason for the unwanted behaviour was, to attacking the child. So, something that could have been easily handled turns into a nightmare situation.

I have never heard of anyone suggesting using a water spray for _normal _ puppy biting, it simply isn't neccessary, let alone a good idea.

There are lots of experienced dog owners, breeders and trainers on this thread, and only one of them is suggesting a water spray, doesn't that tell you something?


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> a SMALL water spray, makes NO noise,


Not true and you also need to remember that dog have much better hearing than us, I'm not saying the noise will scare the dog but that the dog will come to associate that noise with being startled which is NOT a positive thing. 



bailey210608 said:


> surely shouting no to a dog is more harmful to you and your dogs relationship that a tiny harmful bit of water,


I don't shout at my dogs, they know what "no" means so they don't need yelling at or squirting with a water pistol, what is the point in using the water pistol if you can avoid it!?! We are talking about a 8 week old pup that has every opportunity to be trained positively not an adult dog that is causing massive problems. 

I don't particularly like the idea of using a water spray on older dogs (I can see that it might have it's place) but to suggest it for a little 8 week old puppy that could learn in much more positive manner is beyond me.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

I don't particularly like the idea of using a water spray on older dogs (I can see that it might have it's place) but to suggest it for a little 8 week old puppy that could learn in much more positive manner is beyond me. [/QUOTE]

Yes your probably right. Which is why I stated that I would be doing my training without, however, to start using a new method on a adult dog seems a little contradicting, a dog is a dog not a baby as some people state, my daugher is my baby and it is her welfare that is paramout to me, and if using a water pistol, that in my opinion; and it is my opinion, doesn't hurt rather than having my child or any other mauled, then that is how it will be. To be honest my dad brought our collie up rubbing her nose in her feaces and smacking her nose, she never laid one finger on anyone and was a well behaved happy dog with no issues whatsoever, (not that I advocate any of that, but that was the way there generation treated dogs). Again I have stated that Bailey loves the water pistol and I acctually dont think that he thinks its a punishment, or anything but fun, he went out in the poring rain and wasn't fussed he goes under the hoes and loves it. Bring on the water fun I say.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

bailey210608 said:


> to start using a new method on a adult dog seems a little contradicting, a dog is a dog not a baby as some people state,


Who stated a dog is a baby? 

Why does it seem contradicting? I wouldn't personally use this technique on any dog but it is more justifiable to use it on an adult dog with REAL problems not just a puppy being a puppy!


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Who stated a dog is a baby?
> 
> Why does it seem contradicting? I wouldn't personally use this technique on any dog but it is more justifiable to use it on an adult dog with REAL problems not just a puppy being a puppy!


maybe me!!!
I would use a water spay on an older dog no hesitation as a distraction.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Duke my dog as a puppy he tested everything with his mouth, my fingers, hand etc..

I used to, like you, say the word no and offer him a toy instead of me. My little lad was a flamer I'd tire him out and tiptoe round so as not to wake him up. 

All I can say is that its a phase they grow out of with guidance/training. It must be difficult with a young child but I'm sure your puppy will get the message as my dog did.

I mention the dog I have now because he was the worse puppy I'd ever had for biting. Years ago I had two JRTs my son was about 18 months old at the time never had any problems with nipping, there again I had two so they played rough with each other and possibly learned from each other. I am not suggesting you get another dog just that dogs are different some are more shall we say bolder than others.

Sue


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## Mattie (Aug 9, 2008)

> a dog is a dog not a baby as some people state, .


A dog is a dog, a puppy is a baby dog, baby dogs have to grow and develop like human babies do and also have to learn how to be dogs first then to understand us humans. By relating puppies to babies, many not so experienced dog owners then understand their puppies better.



> You can't possibly compare yanking on a collar, and using a toy water pistol in the way I suggested. The two are completely different techniques, the yanking on a collar is negative reinforcement, the water pistol method is distracting a behaviour, much the same as clapping your hands,


Yes they are different but spraying a dog with water is also negative reinforcement and not a distraction. If someone sprayed you with water what would your reaction be? I know I would be furious and many dogs are.



> Clapping your hands is not an aversion method, you are simply distracting your dog to get his attention. In the same vein the water pistol method is not an aversion technique.


Spraying a dog with water is not a distraction, it is an aversion especially if it is a water pistol, the water comes out with some force from these, the sprays are much gentler but still an aversion.



> The remote spray collar works in the same way. It is not an aversion technique. It creates an element of surprise for the dog and gives the owner the opportunity to regain the dogs attention so that the owner can then recall the dog and praise the dog for coming back.


Spray collars are an aversion especially them with citronella in, they can damage a dog's nose and eyes. They are more than an element of surprise which is why so many dogs shut down when they are used, especially those that are not controlled by the handler.



> For example your dog (meaning a dog), is off-leash and not close by, but you can see (without being an expert in canine body language), that your dog is about to run over to a stranger. By using the remote you can surprise the dog, get its attention and recall him, giving lots of praise for doing so.
> 
> The dog does not then have an aversion to the stranger, this is not how dogs think. The dog will associate going back to his owner with getting praise/treats and think this is a good thing. Eventually the dog will see the mist as a cue to go back to its owner.


I have been asked the other day how to undo the damage that one of these collars has done to a dog, he did associate the spray with the humans that were in front of him and is now very aggressive to people when out.


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> Mattie,
> 
> You have your opinion which is only natural and healthy
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bother people are clearly not reading what you've written. Good luck with everything.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2008)

My puppy is 9 weeks now and is a little terror for the old play biting. However she is a good learner. The kids (3 and 2)have learnt to stay out of the way - so Mum gets the brunt of it. 

I have a soft toy near me at all times. And when Lily is having one of her moments she has the toy given to her. If she still carries on and doesn't get all the yelps and ouches, she gets put in her crate until she calms down - is that okay?

She does however know sit and down - so I can sometimes stop her in the tracks with that.

I wouldn't spray her with water but she LOVES the water hose. Me, Lily and the kids have a right old time. She chases the water. I will get some pics and share.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> My puppy is 9 weeks now and is a little terror for the old play biting. However she is a good learner. The kids (3 and 2)have learnt to stay out of the way - so Mum gets the brunt of it.
> 
> I have a soft toy near me at all times. And when Lily is having one of her moments she has the toy given to her. If she still carries on and doesn't get all the yelps and ouches, she gets put in her crate until she calms down - is that okay?
> 
> ...


Have you tried ignoring her? If Oscar (10 weeks) get rough and bitey when playing, I did try "ow" and "no". The thing that really works is ignoring him. I simply stand up and move a couple of metres away from him. Within 30 secs, he is craving attention again and wants to please me. I want the attention I give him to be positive.  If that makes sense?


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> I want the attention I give him to be positive.  If that makes sense?


If only everyone was like that. 

And Bailey, you are free to choose whichever method you wish, if you want to choose the easy option which could possibly damage your puppy in the long run go for it. Everyone has read dog_positive_training's posts so please don't suggest otherwise, just because we don't agree with them doesn't mean we haven't read them.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2008)

:rolle


Sophiex said:


> Have you tried ignoring her? If Oscar (10 weeks) get rough and bitey when playing, I did try "ow" and "no". The thing that really works is ignoring him. I simply stand up and move a couple of metres away from him. Within 30 secs, he is craving attention again and wants to please me. I want the attention I give him to be positive.  If that makes sense?


Believe me when you have a 1 stone pup hanging on to ya plates its very difficult to ignore


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## bailey210608 (Aug 12, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> :rolle
> 
> Believe me when you have a 1 stone pup hanging on to ya plates its very difficult to ignore


Tried ignoring him, he's very persistent, he just loves playing but with our fingers and ankles instead of toys, however I was getting the moss out of my lawn this afternoon and found that he was helping me out, so as the weathers nice I be taking him out there to help with the gardening.

Being a cocker he probably enjoys this due to his breed, he was also chasing the hoes around the garden, whilst it was going off, lol.

Saying No just excites him more, my little girls just loves him and refuses to leave him alone...Ive tried the ouch and he doesn't even recognise that. It's like he knows what im trying to do and just ignores everything....

Also my husband wasn't as keen on getting him as I was and he got the right hump with him earlier as he bit his ankles, he was not impressed. I like the idea of teaching him sit though, sounds like a very sensible plan.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> :rolle
> 
> Believe me when you have a 1 stone pup hanging on to ya plates its very difficult to ignore


Ah yes I can imagine! Oscar is only 2.2 kg so I guess it's easier for me but when he really sinks his teeth in, it's SHARP. He hangs on to the bottom of my dressing gown in the morning. I have to half-drag him along.


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## Mattie (Aug 9, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> Mattie,
> 
> You have your opinion which is only natural and healthy
> 
> ...


One of the good things about these forums is we learn from each other and different ideas, we can't learn if we don't discuss them.



> Used in the correct way and at the right time a remote spray collar is not an aversion technique, and I'll tell you why.


Go and see these collars being used, they are an aversion, they are not used the way you use them, they are used as a punishment. Owner buy them and don't read the instructions, only enough on how to spray the dog, when the dog is doing something the owner doesn't want, he sprays the dog. This isn't reinforcing a behaviour, it is punishing the dog for doing something the dog doesn't understand is wrong.

Most owners don't bother to find out how these gadgets work or how to use them, some have a remote in their hand so they press the button.



> I wouldn't bother people are clearly not reading what you've written. Good luck with everything.


I read dogpositivetraining's posts, I find them interesting in how she uses various gadgets and the different training methods, even if I don't agree, I am still learning.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> Hi Sophie,
> 
> It makes very good sense, and when Oscar comes back over to you 30 secs later you could give him a safe chew toy to bite on and praise him for using this, and reinforce this desired behaviour by giving him a treat.


Yes, this is what I do. I orginally started giving him the chew straight away to distract him but he'd rather bite (play!) with me. The 30 secs really gives him time to stop playing so roughly and then he gets a toy or a chew and lots of praise and attention. He's learning quickly and he's very happy. We're having less of the need to ignore him for 30 secs as he is understanding what too rough is.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Whatever method you decide to choose it is important to observe the results you are getting, much is written about consistency in dog training, I would agree with this, but only if the method is working, if you are getting the wrong results, doing it consistantly will just increase the amount of wrong results.

If you get an excitable reaction when you say no, the chances are you are saying it in an excitable tone, your voice needs to be more neuteral, but this is easier said than done, when you have a puppy hanging off you.

It is incredibly hard for new dog owners to impliment training techniques, when we got our first pup many years ago, we were probably dreadful owners, everything was a major drama. All the pups we have got in the last few years have been wonderful, but I put this down to us being better and more relaxed, not the dogs.

We do all have to start somewhere, I wish you the best of luck with your pup.


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