# Puppy jumping, biting and ripping clothes. Help please!!



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Hello all,

First post after getting loads of really good tips from this site.

Our little (big) man Frank is an 8.5 month bulldog/mastiff cross, in many ways he is fantastic - sleeps through the night, 99% house trained, good with picking up new commands (although can be stubborn) etc. Obviously he is a puppy and his brain is developing quickly, so there are loads of areas that we need to work with him long term.

Our main issue is that when he gets frustrated / overly excited he jumps up and grabs clothes or arms, he's getting to be a big lad (22kg now) and when he is in that mindset, he just keeps coming and his face 'changes' in a way that suggests he isnt playing any more - continual jumping and biting. He got a lot better with it over time but now he is in his adolescent period the instances are recurring more frequently.

We've tried many different strategies to temper this:

Ignoring him jumping up - no good. He just hangs from clothes and then moves to chomping feet if we continue to ignore him. Many guides online cite this as the only reliable way to get results, but
Crying out / pretending to be hurt - no good. He doesn't give a stuff, just carries on
Asking him to sit with treats - way too excited for that
The only thing that we've found that works semi-reliably is a decent time out, but I'm conscious that if we are leaving him in time out he may just be forgetting what has just happened and the behaviour will continue.

I know there are no quick fixes as far as dogs are concerned, but just looking for strategies that have worked well for others that I can try and implement.

Thanks / Mark


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Time out works,you need to be leaving him though is best so you walk out the door, if he starts on another member of the family they join you. Come back in rinse and repeat.

All the behaviour has to stop, and most dogs soon get the message.

The other methods do work for some dogs but this one is guaranteed to work on all. Just takes consistency and patience.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

lullabydream said:


> Time out works,you need to be leaving him though is best so you walk out the door, if he starts on another member of the family they join you. Come back in rinse and repeat.
> 
> All the behaviour has to stop, and most dogs soon get the message.
> 
> The other methods do work for some dogs but this one is guaranteed to work on all. Just takes consistency and patience.


Thanks for the reply. Yeah we are 100% committed to the long haul but I'm just really keen to nip it in the bud before he is fully grown. When he does it with me I'm not so fussed, as I'm tall and pretty thick skinned...my wife on the other hand is short and bruises / scratches really easily!

I also need to get a handle on what triggers his outbursts, could be tiredness or boredom but I haven't spotted the pattern yet.

As I'm sure is the case when people have kids (we don't yet) it's just great to hear from people that have experienced similar situations and come out the other side!!


----------



## deecee (Dec 19, 2017)

This is usually a consequence of over-stimulation in puppies but can also just be a more dominant play solicitation (oi, come play with me now) rather than a submissive one (hey, you wanna play). You're entering the period where he'll start to assert himself a little and push some boundaries. It's important you stay consistent with your expectations and he will come out the other side.

The timeouts will work, but they have to be short. The longer they are, the less the dog has learned and the less opportunities there are for him to learn. A short timeout allows the dog to associate the behaviour with the consequence. A long timeout is just you shutting your dog in another room. So, dog jumps, goes to timeout for 30s, comes back in. Dog jumps again, goes to timeout for 30s, comes back in. You can increase the time a bit as you go, but I wouldn't go above a minute. This needs to be an entirely emotionless thing on your part.

Consistency is important, but only to the level you want the dog to generalise to. The more consistent you are, the higher the probability that they'll be able to apply the behaviour to a new environment. So, if you want your dog to never jump on you, there has to be a consequence to his jumping on you. If you want your dog to never jump on anybody, there has to be a consequence to his jumping on everybody and anybody. Are you OK with your dog jumping if his paws aren't on you? Are you OK with him using his mouth if there's no pressure? They're things you have to decide for yourself, but with consistency, the dog will understand.

Lastly, work your dog. Do heel, sit, down, place, stay, come etc in many environments and situations. It builds the relationship between you and your dog, mentally drains him and builds confidence. He'll start to look to you for guidance rather than just food and play.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

deecee said:


> This is usually a consequence of over-stimulation in puppies but can also just be a more dominant play solicitation (oi, come play with me now) rather than a submissive one (hey, you wanna play). You're entering the period where he'll start to assert himself a little and push some boundaries. It's important you stay consistent with your expectations and he will come out the other side.
> 
> The timeouts will work, but they have to be short. The longer they are, the less the dog has learned and the less opportunities there are for him to learn. A short timeout allows the dog to associate the behaviour with the consequence. A long timeout is just you shutting your dog in another room. So, dog jumps, goes to timeout for 30s, comes back in. Dog jumps again, goes to timeout for 30s, comes back in. You can increase the time a bit as you go, but I wouldn't go above a minute. This needs to be an entirely emotionless thing on your part.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply deecee, some really good points there. To be honest my wife and I are probably too impatient where his training is concerned. I need to get a grip on the situation though, as having my wife in tears again because he has bitten her just isn't conducive to a relaxed home environment!

I should have made that clear in my original post, but when I am givng him timeouts it's always less than 30 seconds. That said, there have been numerous instances where he has been put in the kitchen (his time out room) and left to calm down / go to sleep as he is beyond excited and totally worked up.

Also - he is too big for us to take him out for time out. It has to be us leaving the room otherwise he is lunging and biting our clothes / arms. He's wise to our tricks as well, so if we try and take him out of the living room he'll so limp on his back and snap at me when I try and pick him up.

As an aside, one weird thing that always pacifies him is for us to put his harness on - it drops his excitement / aggression levels considerably. Guess it works something like a thunder vest or whatever they are called...


----------



## Barkingmad57 (Nov 26, 2018)

We are having the same problem with our 11 month old, and time out is the only thing that works for him - however you probably find the same thing as us, it's hard to leave the room when he's got hold of clothes!! My wardrobe is slowly depleting.....
We're doing more mentally with him too, it's been hot here lately so walks have been shorter and I'm sure boredom sets him off.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

My pup is 8 months and has pretty much grown out of it. As soon as he started I would walk out the room my older dog would follow me. 

Alternatively if it's bordom redirect into a training session he is very food motivated so I would get him into a sit and do some simple tricks. This normally takes his mind off the sillyness. Or a stuffed frozen kong settles him. I always have one handy.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Have you actually worked out yet what triggers this behaviour?

It could be anything from boredom to frustration from not understanding what you’re asking for, and would need different approaches to manage.

Time out is ok if he’s not frustrated by not getting something right (and earning the treat). Time out for this would probably lead to it all getting worse because stress becomes involved and stressed dogs, like stressed people, can’t learn.

He won’t be able to logically put together ‘I’m here because I did x...’ but if it becomes an unwanted consequence of an unwanted behaviour then he will eventually put that together in his head..’When I do x it’s not rewarding because this happens’.

I think that the best way to deal with this is, if you can, work out the triggers and pre-empt them with an incompatible behaviour.

Alternatively, as he’s a big dog and is hurting you, a one to one with a behaviourist is the way to go. Nothing beats seeing something first hand.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Barkingmad57 said:


> We are having the same problem with our 11 month old, and time out is the only thing that works for him - however you probably find the same thing as us, it's hard to leave the room when he's got hold of clothes!! My wardrobe is slowly depleting.....
> We're doing more mentally with him too, it's been hot here lately so walks have been shorter and I'm sure boredom sets him off.


Yeah exactly the same here. Every book, leaflet and website we've read just says 'ignore them when they jump up, give them no attention...' I can't really see how this is possible unless you have a small dog.

I realise the point is to exit the room and give time out as calmly and quickly as possible, but it's not easy when there's a big chunky boy attached to your sleeve.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

whowantstheworld said:


> When he does it with me I'm not so fussed, as I'm tall and pretty thick skinned...my wife on the other hand is short and bruises / scratches really easily!


I think the key here is consistency and timing - everybody does the same thing, every time, immediately he does this. I may have missed this but with the timeouts rather than putting him out, you could take yourselves out by walking out of the room for a few moments.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> Have you actually worked out yet what triggers this behaviour?
> 
> It could be anything from boredom to frustration from not understanding what you're asking for, and would need different approaches to manage.
> 
> ...


Thanks Linda. I don't think he's ever reacted to not getting something right / confusion. He's EXTREMELY food driven so is really, really good with his training, as he knows that's the route to his treats.

Obviously it's not always easy to pinpoint the trigger but I would say 80% of the time it's when he's in an extremely wound-up state, i.e. after a walk, when he's really hot and bothered or after he's been zooming around the kitchen and the yard for five minutes. He's mostly bulldog and has a really narrow windpipe, so overheats easily. I suppose a solution could be to leave him to calm down / level out for a few minutes before re-engaging with him...

The other 20% of the time I'm going to put down to boredom, i.e. we might be cooking in the kitchen, doing laundry etc. and he doesn't feel entertained.

I know we'll get there with him, it's just frustrating - that said I know that over time he will be the best of the good boys!


----------



## Fiona Gw (May 31, 2019)

Hi, I have a similar difficulty but the behaviour is happening on walks. We have a Great Dane x St Bernard who is coming up to six months old. He is a very large boy. Mostly he is an absolute joy but we have had phases of him nipping and scratching very hard. This happens most often in the evening when he is overtired and we can manage that pretty well now. the biggest difficulty is that he has some times that he nips and scratches at whoever is walking him and becomes very difficult to manage. There is no obvious trigger for it, it comes out of the blue but once he starts he is very persistent. Would welcome any thoughts on how to manage this.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

If you really can’t find a trigger on walks then perhaps muzzle training him, as a bit of damage limitation, until he is more mature, or until you do spot a trigger.

Is he getting frustrated about something on walks?


----------



## Fiona Gw (May 31, 2019)

Linda Weasel said:


> If you really can't find a trigger on walks then perhaps muzzle training him, as a bit of damage limitation, until he is more mature, or until you do spot a trigger.
> 
> Is he getting frustrated about something on walks?


Really hard to say, it seems to go in little bursts, he will be fine for days on end and then it starts again. I do wonder if it might be related to his growth spurts, which I guess must be very tiring. Will think about muzzle as that certainly reduces the potential harm.


----------



## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Sorry, i have not read through all the replies on here but i have read the opening post.

When my TT was a pup, he was very mouthy when excited. He knew he wasnt to nip human skin or clothing, but we could actually see his urge to do it was absolutely overwhelming him.

We got him trained onto an antler indoors. We always had the antler to hand, so the second he showed that inclination to jump and nip (usually when we stood up) we would say 'antler' and pop that in his mouth quick. He just needed something to clench down on.

Pretty soon, he was going for the antler himself, and if he couldnt find it instantly, we could see him desperately seeking it.

In woods, we never offered sticks, but he would pick them up himself if he felt the urge. One other thing that helped him know not to bite me or my then 4yr old daughter was a well timed shriek.
.he ran up behind me in the woods when he was about 4 months old and bit the back of my knee. Well, i gave such a shriek that he never ever nipped me again. My daughter burst jnto loud screams when he nipped her. He never touched her again. But he did continue on everyone else for a very long time. He is 6 yrs now, and he still has that urge when excited. We dont have an antler any more, but there is always something lying about that he can pick up, and he never touches skin or clothing with his teeth at all now.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Appreciate all the comments from everyone - it's reassuring to know that other people have overcome similar issues. I think we became a bit complacent with him as when he hit 7 months old we saw some excellent improvements in his behaviour and he went 2.5 / 3 weeks without a single timeout at one point. Then his adolescent period truly kicked in and everything went out the window! It is obviously frustrating because we thought we'd cracked this already - but hey ho!

We are 100% committed to the time out method exclusively now - he had 15 time outs yesterday (!) but that's with zero tolerance of any behaviour we deem inappropriate - i.e. play mouthing my hand = time out; jumping up to play with my wife = time out.

I have seen some very confusing advice regarding time out duration though. Some people say that it should never be longer than 30 seconds, but with Frank that doesn't seen long enough, as when I only give him 30 seconds he's still in that agitated 'you WILL play with me Daddy' mode when I come back and he just goes for me again. I've had more success with a longer duration...but have seen some widly varying time out lengths suggested...anywhere from 10 seconds to 'indefinite' i.e. waiting until the dog is fully calm and has relaxed.

We are just going to need to be super consistent with it. No other method works with him - so we're just calmly leaving the room (with him sometimes partially attached to my arm!) I know it's effective as it worked with him pre-adolescence.


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Fiona Gw said:


> Hi, I have a similar difficulty but the behaviour is happening on walks. We have a Great Dane x St Bernard who is coming up to six months old. He is a very large boy. Mostly he is an absolute joy but we have had phases of him nipping and scratching very hard. This happens most often in the evening when he is overtired and we can manage that pretty well now. the biggest difficulty is that he has some times that he nips and scratches at whoever is walking him and becomes very difficult to manage. There is no obvious trigger for it, it comes out of the blue but once he starts he is very persistent. Would welcome any thoughts on how to manage this.


Hi Fiona. Whilst our little (big) man won't be nearly as large as your puppy, he is a chunky boy. What I keep having to remind myself (and my wife) is that his behaviour is rooted in play - he just wants us to be with him all the time and playing with him...or he is really tired out. At his age, his jaws could probably break my arm if he was actually trying to cause me damage!

An issue for us is that Frank has no 'off-switch' at the minute. He isn't a high-energy dog at all; he's completely knackered after about 10 mins play / 30 mins walk...but when he should just take himself off for a nap in his bed / crate, he wants to stay with us and then becomes over-tired / cranky.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

whowantstheworld said:


> I have seen some very confusing advice regarding time out duration though. Some people say that it should never be longer than 30 seconds, but with Frank that doesn't seen long enough


For young puppies, 30 seconds might be too long but Frank is older so if it isn't enough for him, stay out a little longer. Remember you know your dog better than anyone. Glad it is working out and good luck - the zero tolerance will get through to him!


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> For young puppies, 30 seconds might be too long but Frank is older so if it isn't enough for him, stay out a little longer. Remember you know your dog better than anyone. Glad it is working out and good luck - the zero tolerance will get through to him!


Thanks Joanne. It'll take us a good amount of time to crack it - the little guy is deceptively clever and knows what I'm up to, but I know we'll get there.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

whowantstheworld said:


> An issue for us is that Frank has no 'off-switch' at the minute.


He is old enough now to start working on impulse control. Young puppies are just too young but have a look on YouTube for Susan Garrett's 'It's yer choice' game


----------



## whowantstheworld (Dec 3, 2018)

Just airing my experiences this week (mainly for my own benefit) but hopefully might help others. Frank has had a totally up and down week. Tuesday - my wife was out all evening and he had zero time outs, I was a proud dog-father. Conversely, this morning he has had 10 timeouts (and counting) with my wife - timeouts were really successful with him in the past but seem to be less effective at present.

Can this really all be down to adolescence?? 

A real issue for us is that the little guy can't / won't settle and nap when we are around. We've worked hard on getting him to settle with treats magically 'appearing' on his bed, but when he is in an over-tired state (often) he just can't find the off switch.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

whowantstheworld said:


> Just airing my experiences this week (mainly for my own benefit) but hopefully might help others. Frank has had a totally up and down week. Tuesday - my wife was out all evening and he had zero time outs, I was a proud dog-father. Conversely, this morning he has had 10 timeouts (and counting) with my wife - timeouts were really successful with him in the past but seem to be less effective at present.
> 
> Can this really all be down to adolescence??
> 
> A real issue for us is that the little guy can't / won't settle and nap when we are around. We've worked hard on getting him to settle with treats magically 'appearing' on his bed, but when he is in an over-tired state (often) he just can't find the off switch.


I work from home at times and Loki struggles to settle at times. I draw the curtains a bit give him a kong and then leave him to it this seems to settle him. He seems to have associated me drawing the living room curtains with time to settle.


----------

