# mice pregnant?!?!



## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

So, Im sorry to be posting so much but I think my girls are pregnant. It was a total mistage getting them from the peystore. I have a desire to take them back because there is nothing wrong with the "merchandise". I have only seen two out of the nest at a time and now I think I've seen all three and I'm pretty sure they are all girls and all pregnant. (One is very pregnant) I feel awful for not noticing sooner. I was thinking wow mice are chubby little creatures, then it hit me. I called the store and they said they MIX the sexes!!! I have accidentally bought pregnant live bearing fish before but not a mammal. I just don't know what to do. I want to get them all out in the open so I can make sure they are all girls. I want to move any non girl to a separate tank. But...I'm afraid it will upset the mothers to be and they will abort. But I've handled them before, all at once to clean the tank and at least two seem to not have aborted. They look like they've sswallowed golf balls. One particularly. I am not sure how to handle this situation.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Oh dear, it's not an uncommon situation I'm afraid. The site linked below should be extremely helpful, it will explain what to expect if you do indeed have a pregnant female or females and has to guide to sexing mice, gestation, birth, litter care etc.

Breeding - Fancy Mice

First thing's first, you need to establish if they are all female, if there's a rogue male in there you should remove him straightaway, as females can be impregnated again very shortly after giving birth so you could end up with back to back litters.
If they are all girls, they can be kept together and will help each other raise the babies. Sounds like at least one of them is about to pop, looking like they've swallowed a golf ball is a definite sign. Could you post photos of your three?


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Thank you for you reply, picaresque. Looks like I need to dig in the bedding straight away to see if there's a boy. I'll work on getting good pictures. They move so fast!! Lol. I'm working on cleaning a tank in case there is a male. Is he going to be aggressive? I'll wear gloves to be safe. I'll read that link immediately. 

Kelsey


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

They are girls.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

I read the link. How necessary is culling? I could maybe bring myself do cull a deformed pinky or a peanut one but I don't know if I could cull another. Will it really redrease the devopment of all of them if I let the mothers keep most? It also said to do the deformed baby culling day one but on another website it seemed to say to not disrupt the mother and babies that soon and to only handle them a full seventy two hours after birth.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

I read a long culling debate on here and I would like to say I'm not trying to continue it. It gave me a lot to think about. It reminded me of a mark twain quote that is something like the violet crushed by the heel forgives by leaving behind its fragrance when its crushed, in my opinion. Its sad but all things destroy and kill things to live. It, in my opinion, would be impossible to breathe without accepting that. Mining, killing, it happens to survive. Landscapes, habitats, and lives are ended so another can continue. I like to think of it as an energy exchange I have with the world. I say thanks to the universe for giving me what I have and and ask for understanding from the universe when my living requires a loss of something else's life. I think some people have a hard time with stating something is their opinion and not fact and that they don't have the emotional intelligence yet not that they won't ever, to accept that no one causes an emotion in you but you. It seems to me that everything is perspective witch brings me to the quote "everyone's right in a war." It in me at least makes life less simple but I feel it is not an option not to try, for me. I'll end my existential talk there.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

If someone would like to pm me about their culling practices and their logic/perspective I would be grateful. I cannot however stop anyone from replying to me publicly.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

I should have said that while the information on that site is mostly very useful it is written by a show breeder and they do tend to cull extensively, because any 'surplus' is useless to them. It is not necessary.
You will need to think what you will do with all of these babies, as presumably with at least two pregnant does you will have twenty plus. Could you keep some of the females? They, unlike males, will cohabit happily and thrive in a group - my cage of eight girls are great fun and fascinating to watch. I don't know if you'll be able to rehome others among friends and family? Obviously good pet homes would be the ideal, but if you do end up with an unmanageable amount of babies that you can't find homes for, as horrible as it sounds if you know any snake owners who know how to humanely dispatch, that could be an option. Snakes do need to eat and at least these mice will have been raised well. Anyway I wish you luck and hope the litters are small! Do keep us updated.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Thank you for your reply. I am worried about the males. I will try to find them homes first before I try to give them to reptile owners. It gives me a lot to think about, indeed. I have four tanks but even those wouldn't be enough for all of them boy or girl. Got a tank topper extension today so that should help at least some adding more space.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Tank topper fame in the mail. Cannot get the floors installed. Lol I'll keep trying.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

All the girls and mums can stay in one very large tank whilst boys would have to be split as they "can" fight and fight badly!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

picaresque said:


> I should have said that while the information on that site is mostly very useful it is written by a show breeder and they do tend to cull extensively, because any 'surplus' is useless to them. It is not necessary.
> You will need to think what you will do with all of these babies, as presumably *with at least two pregnant does you will have twenty plus. Could you keep some of the females? *They, unlike males, will cohabit happily and thrive in a group - my cage of eight girls are great fun and fascinating to watch. I don't know if you'll be able to rehome others among friends and family? Obviously good pet homes would be the ideal, but if you do end up with an unmanageable amount of babies that you can't find homes for, as horrible as it sounds if you know any snake owners who know how to humanely dispatch, that could be an option. Snakes do need to eat and at least these mice will have been raised well. Anyway I wish you luck and hope the litters are small! Do keep us updated.


I used to breed mice and kept almost all of my females - keeping males is much harder because even when there are no females present they will almost always fight when they reach maturity - often to the death (and if there are females ANYWHERE near, they will smell them).

I would check your babies over and separate them at five weeks old at the latest. They can breed from six weeks.

I hate culling and used to take my male mice to a petshop. Of course you have no control over where they end up.

Mr Lostbear used to do my culling (which I only ever did for medical reasons - I had a strain of mice which developed tumours and I had to cull them all - it was pretty horrible), and very skilled he was too, though it upset him a lot and he was relieved when I realised that the babies were almost all going to carry the tumour and stopped breeding this particular strain. And occasionally you will get a mouse that WILL NOT BE KILLED - and takes ages. THAT is horrible - truly horrible. Had Mr LB in tears once. I couldn't look.

In a situation like this, for all I don't like to suggest live feeding, and have never knowingly surrendered my mice to it, I think it would be kinder.

Try re-homing and pet shops first though.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Thank you lostbear and blade100. I will separate the boys as soon as they are weaned. I wonder if one already had the babies because she hasn't come out in a while. If its possible I can keep maybe one boy and but the other girls in my big tank. I'll have to think about this and see how many babies there are. I read live feeding is a very slow death. 

Got a tank topper in the mail yesterday. Have not had good luck installing the levels. Lol will keep trying

Are cardboard boxes which have some ink okay to give mice? Its hard to find cardboard boxes with zero ink.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Culling would be terribly sad.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

kpotta said:


> Thank you lostbear and blade100. I will separate the boys as soon as they are weaned. I wonder if one already had the babies because she hasn't come out in a while. If its possible *I can keep maybe one boy *and but the other girls in my big tank. I'll have to think about this and see how many babies there are. *I read live feeding is a very slow death. *I honestly don't know - I've never fed live, or seen them fed to snakes, but I have always shrink from it . It just seems very cruel to me.
> 
> If you keep a boy, you MUST keep him secure - I speak from bitter experience.
> 
> ...


I used to put in all sorts of illustrated boxes and tubes - never had any problems.



kpotta said:


> *Culling would be terribly sad*.


It is - it's awful, which is why I only ever did it with ill mice, and not for numbers. I kept my breeding numbers down just because of that - that muscine Romeo incident was the only occasion I had more than I had intended.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

lostbear said:


> A couple of days later when I was giving my girls their cuddle, I found that one of them had "test-icicles" (*ahem*) and that somehow he had got INTO the large aquarium, and had spent a very busy time impregnating all of the lady mice in there. Still don't know how he managed it, as we were always very careful about putting the mesh back on, and it overlapped by over an inch - but he got in, did his naughty deeds and never left any indication that he had broken in


He must have had the time of his life!


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Oh man! That's twelve litters!!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

kpotta said:


> Oh man! That's twelve litters!!


At least! I can't remember how many lay-dee mice were in there - 12 was the minimum - may have been up to 18. 

Average of 12 per litter - lotsa meeses!

One of my mice had two litters with *19* in each litter. Raised them all herself. I didn't breed her again - I thought if she was having that many pinkies each time it would take far too much out of her and it wasn't fair. Most of my other mice had between 8 and 16 per litter. (I would say that she was balance with a little girl mouse who never got pregnant but who mothered the other mice's litters. She was as sweetie. I would like mice again if the truth be tad, but Mr LB feels he has done his time and doesn't want any more.

Mice are quite . . . fecund.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

I was thinking of adopting some African soft fur rats before it hit me that my mice are expecting. It would have been chaos.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)




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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Cute! Are they the pregnant ones? Can't tell from the pics but they do look quite round.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

This one isn't showing as much as the girl who was hiding. Hard to take pics. Lol


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Any update?


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

I thought one may have given birth but it hadn't been three days yet so I hadn't poked in the nest to look for babies. I'm out of town currently but will be home tonight. Hopefully I'll come home to babies.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

kpotta said:


>


What sweet little souls they are - and I love that you have lots of stuff in there to make the environment interesting for them.

Mine used to also like dried leaves - they used to pull them into their nests and arrange them artistically.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

kpotta said:


> I thought one may have given birth but it hadn't been three days yet so I hadn't poked in the nest to look for babies. I'm out of town currently but will be home tonight. Hopefully I'll come home to babies.


You should be able to hear little squeaks if you listen very closely. Hope all goes well, would love to see some baby photos when they're a bit older.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Lostbear, I have their set up pretty loaded up. I read they have no real use for flat surfaces and open space so there's some obstical ever step. I've been saving boxes and stuff like strawberry containers. I'm going to try to add more dangling things. 

Picaresque- its funny in the middle of the night I swear I'll hear squeaks. So faint but I swear I heard some. And then I'll walk to their cage and put my ear to it and I hear nothing. I think they loaded up their nest (an old box) with bedding so maybe their walls are somewhat soundproof lol. I just figured I wasn't supposed to bother them for three or so days after the babies were born anyway so it was okay to leave. 

There should be pinkies when I get home because I'll have had them for 21 days.


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## Tomskrat (Aug 11, 2011)

> You should be able to hear little squeaks if you listen very closely.


Wish my baby mice just made little squeaks. Some nights I can hear them through the wall :lol:


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

kpotta said:


> Lostbear, I have their set up pretty loaded up. I read they have no real use for flat surfaces and open space so there's some obstical ever step. . *I've been saving boxes and stuff like strawberry containers. I'm going to try to add more dangling things*
> 
> Picaresque- its funny in the middle of the night I swear I'll hear squeaks. So faint but I swear I heard some. And then I'll walk to their cage and put my ear to it and I hear nothing. I think they loaded up their nest (an old box) with bedding so maybe their walls are somewhat soundproof lol. I just figured I wasn't supposed to bother them for three or so days after the babies were born anyway so it was okay to leave.
> 
> There should be pinkies when I get home because I'll have had them for 21 days.


They'll love that! Branches are good, too, for them to climb on. On a slightly different note, mine used to enjoy a chop bone to nibble on, though obviously you can't leave that in there for too long - not that there's much meat or gristle left to rot even after a short time,


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

What is a chop bone? I had forgotten to get them a branch. There are some at the petstore so I'll pick one up soon. 

I just got home from out of town and at least one of them is still pregnant and I don't hear anything. I have had them for 21 days. I wonder if I could poke around the nest to look for pinkies and remove mom first. I think it is the same mouse who I see coming out of the nest. Who is still pregnant. I haven't really seen the other mouse since Thursday. And if she had babies Thursday then its been over three days and I would like to see what is going on in that nest.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

If you have a pork or lamb chop with a bone in it, when you have eaten the meat, let the mice have the bone for a few hours. The same applies to any other bones e.g. rib bones, too, but chop bones are reasonably small - putting ribs in might fill up your mouse house.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Okay. Will do that. Thank you.


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

I fee stupid. I'm starting to think they just overeat. I found no pinkies and its been 22 days.


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## Tomskrat (Aug 11, 2011)

Gestation can sometimes go to 23 days. But if there are no babies by now then theyre probably just bit chubby


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Don't feel stupid, it's a legitimate concern when you get pet shop mice. I suppose it's a disappointment in a way when you were all prepared for babies but at least you won't have to worry about being overrun!


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## kpotta (Feb 21, 2015)

Yes I'm very relieved. I think they were definitely not pregnant because they seemed to have gotten slimmer. Going to clean the cage today finally.


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