# Rescue dog- Fear aggression?



## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Hi all, 

11 days ago we had our Romanian rescue dog arrive. She’s 2.5.
She’s been very jumpy which is understandable but she also barks at people in the house if they come downstairs etc (usually as the children come down and she stops when she realises who it is). she barks like crazy at visitors and I have been leaving treats in the porch and telling guests to ignore her and throw a treat down when she calms. This seemed to work with her being comfortable with those guests on that occasion but obviously it would restart when they left if they returned. 

AnywY we had a trainer come yesterday and the dog disliked her instantly. She did her usual barking but then even barking and even nipped at the trainer. the trainer did try to provoke her so I guess I’m not overly shocked. 

However this morning we’ve had a
Couple of growls and a few barks towards us. 

I guess what I’m
Asking is... what now? 

I have 3 children and I don’t ever leave them unsupervised but I feel I’m on high alert now. what do I do? Give her time
To
Settle? Restart? Continue with the training that was started? This included slip lead correction. 

whatever I do I think she does need time to
distress before the next move. 

just looking for advice. Is this a sign that my dog is potentially aggressive? Is this just her fear all over again? have we lost her trust?


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Why did the trainer try to provoke her? I'm not surprised your dog didn't like her,I take it you won't be using that trainer again.The poor dog sounds,understandably,very stressed.She's only been with you a matter of days.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

This might help understand what your dog is going through at the moment 
Being, probably, an ex street dog, her knowledge of people is not going to be good, she needs time and a safe place to decompress and assimilate to her new surroundings


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Silverpaw said:


> Why did the trainer try to provoke her? I'm not surprised your dog didn't like her,I take it you won't be using that trainer again.The poor dog sounds,understandably,very stressed.She's only been with you a matter of days.


i think so that we could work on correcting the behaviour. I now don't know what to do in regards to helping her. 
And yeah we won't be using the same person.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

It's VERY early days & she hasn't been given nearly enough time to decompress & is probably utterly overwhelmed by everything.

Bringing a trainer in at this stage was not a good idea, she will probably still be in a high state of anxiety & not receptive to learning, so all it's probably achieved is to put her well over threshold.

No decent trainer should provoke any dog, regardless of whether they're a rescue dog or not, so if you require further guidance in future avoid them & find someone who has experience working with these types of dogs & who uses positive reinforcement.

What experience with dogs do you as a family have, & what experience of rescue dogs?

What advice has the rescue given you?

Do you know her history (eg: was she born on the street or in one of the public shelters), what type of dog is she (not necessarily breed, but a photo may be able to help us, as there are certain types of dog common in Rom that are livestock guarders & they can require management as their guarding instinct is pretty much hard wired).

Was she in a foster home before you got her, specifically one with children, & if so what have they said she's like- good rescues should be getting detailed foster feedback so they can place the dog in a suitable home.

Or was she brought straight from Rom to the UK into a new home?

The good news is that a dog who fear nips _can_ be turned around (one of our Rommies nipped my husband the day we got her because he had no option but to pick her up, she's never bitten since), but it takes a lot of time, commitment & patience.

It's important to let her have her own safe space that she can retreat to, a crate can serve this purpose but ultimately IME they will choose that space themselves (our girl chose under our bed), & keep rewarding her when she behaves in a way you want, manage all interactions with your children, try to watch her body language to make sure she's not being pushed over her limits.

Are you currently walking her & had she experienced walks on a lead before she came to you? If she is being walked but is showing signs of anxiety then it might be better to stop them for the time being, many Rommies don't know what a walk is so won't miss them at this stage.

Many of the dogs from Rom will come round in their own time, some quicker than others, but I'll reiterate that it doesn't happen overnight, & many will never be the cookie cutter dogs many adopters envision, going to the park to chase a frisbee & romping with the kids on the beach, but they can still live fulfilled lives despite this.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Have a look at 'The Dogs Point of View' website if you haven't seen it.Does the rescue you went through offer any behavioural backup/advice?


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Thanks for your reply. 

so I think I was naive but I also feel maybe misled somewhat? 
She came straight to us off transport. 

they said she was good with children and people but I feel like they just wanted to find her a home. All videos she seemed placid and overall she is. 

The rescue suggestion was spray bottle. But again, I want her to feel safe enough to not bark. Not just stop barking because
I punish her. Am I just being foolish wanting that? 


the trainer used a slip lead and I’ve seen these used before but I’m not sure that was the right style for me
Or the dog. 

I’d rather door block and wait for the dog to stop and then treat. 

I’m now scared for anyone to knock the door or even my kids come in and out. 

I don’t want to let the dog down though I have
Already tbh. 
I asked the trainer if this was too soon and they said no. They also rehabilitate dogs from rom so I assumed they’d be the right fit? 

I think
I’ve been very naive. I’m
Not sure how I can make this work with this dog and our family. 

she
Is wonderful usually. Just the door, people she doesn’t know etc. She doesn’t even bark at people on walks. It’s just in her home.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Silverpaw said:


> Have a look at 'The Dogs Point of View' website if you haven't seen it.Does the rescue you went through offer any behavioural backup/advice?


The advice was to use a spray bottle. I feel lost because it just doesn't sit right.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Spray bottles and "provoking". My goodness you have had some very bad advice and it's not even been 2 weeks!

You'll get lots of help here, the right kind of help. If you're willing to put in the work, and get the family to put in the work, you'll have a nice dog in the end.

But please, don't spray this dog, and don't engage anyone with any more "provoking" or dominance theories.

However you seem a bit unrealistic in your expectations. It's only been 11 days. Perhaps not have so many visitors for a few weeks so the poor dog can adjust. It's all going to take a lot of time and on going effort.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Does the rescue have UK back up?
If so could you ask one of the UK arm of the rescue to come and assess her?
Have you had a dog before?
Have you had a rescue dog before?
Do you have a picture of her, as @simplysardonic said above, it might help us help you?
What is she being fed and how often?


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

mrs phas said:


> Does the rescue have UK back up?
> If so could you ask one of the UK arm of the rescue to come and assess her?
> Have you had a dog before?
> Have you had a rescue dog before?
> ...


They have a person in the uk and I reached out and basically there's no uk
Back up. I think she'd try to
Find her a home.

I've had a black lab previously but from a puppy. I have never rescued before.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cclpegs207 said:


> *The advice was to use a spray bottle.* I feel lost because it just doesn't sit right.


Oh crikey that's just awful! Please don't do it, it seems like you have already decided that it's not a method you think is acceptable so this is good.

This is textbook 'how to set your dog up to fail' & I'm actually speechless at how someone pertaining to be a rescue could know so little about what a lot of these dogs have been through.

Another red flag for me is that the rescue have rehomed a dog straight from transport into a busy home with children, presumably with no assessment, a good rescue will be using their network of foster families first so they can start getting a measure of the dog & their individual needs.

I really want to know which rescue this is, & wondering if it's one of the notorious ones who put profit before the dogs' welfare, I know of a few of them but they are very popular so people still adopt from them in droves, they usually rehome to anyone who has the money, especially in covid times.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> Oh crikey that's just awful! Please don't do it, it seems like you have already decided that it's not a method you think is acceptable so this is good.
> 
> This is textbook 'how to set your dog up to fail' & I'm actually speechless at how someone pertaining to be a rescue could know so little about what a lot of these dogs have been through.
> 
> ...


Happy to send you actual details of the rescue. 
I'm very lost and I just think is it better to just find her a better home now? As much as it would break our hearts. 
She's had so much upheaval in her life but if I can't give her what she needs then what do I do?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Can you tell us roughly what area you live in, and perhaps we can find you a proper trainer?

Someone who provokes her in order to train her is truly awful - that's like letting a learner driver crash the car do they know not to do it again.

Spraying her with water is terrible advice too. It will only scare her and make her more anxious.

You mentioned barking at people. First, I'd avoid her meeting ANYONE new for at the very least a week, to allow her to decompress and get the stress hormone right out of her system. It builds and builds, so every stressful thing tops it up and it is constantly overflowing. So give yourself, and her, the best chance of success by starting with an empty stress tank.

Then, let her see people outdoors (from your garden if you like) so she is aware but not too close. If she barks, try to give her more space. If it is just a little barking, like not in full panic mode, give her an empty yoghurt pot smeared with squeezy cheese or wet dog food or meat paste or yoghurt to lick. That does two things - pairs scary person with good things; and stops her barking.

THIS IS JUST A STARTING POINT. I think you still need professional help so like I said, if you tell us what town you live in we can try to recommend someone.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> Can you tell us roughly what area you live in, and perhaps we can find you a proper trainer?
> 
> Someone who provokes her in order to train her is truly awful - that's like letting a learner driver crash the car do they know not to do it again.
> 
> ...


West Midlands area.

I feel like I've took on more than I can manage. I have an under 2 and 10,13 year old. I need to be able to manage it all and I'm not sure I can.

but I was told 'she's lovely, placid, just grateful for anything'

that may all be true but she's also aggressive through fear.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

West Midlands - we have a fabulous member who is in the Midlands, hopefully West - @Sairy ???


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cclpegs207 said:


> They have a person in the uk and I reached out and basically there's no uk
> Back up. I think she'd try to
> Find her a home.
> 
> ...


She looks a little sweetie, I've seen a few 'lowriders' come over to the UK, hard to tell what's in her mix, possibly no actual breeds as such, just a mix of dogs best suited to living in the locality she originated from & they can vary greatly in looks.

I'll pop you a private message as you won't be able to do that yourself until you make 25 posts.

@JoanneF I've also messaged @Sairy on Facebook in case she's not logged on today.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> She looks a little sweetie, I've seen a few 'lowriders' come over to the UK, hard to tell what's in her mix, possibly no actual breeds as such, just a mix of dogs best suited to living in the locality she originated from & they can vary greatly in looks.
> 
> I'll pop you a private message as you won't be able to do that yourself until you make 25 posts.
> 
> @JoanneF I've also messaged @Sairy on Facebook in case she's not logged on today.


Thank you. I really appreciate the help. And non judgement for my silly mistakes


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Thank you. I really appreciate the help. And non judgement for my silly mistakes


No problem, I'm on & off the forum today as I'm building my website & digging out 3 years' worth of compost, but I've messaged you x


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## bunnygeek (Jul 24, 2018)

Poor pup, it does sound like you've been led down the garden path a bit by the rescue and that "trainer". I'm so glad you've managed to spot that their advice is old fashioned and not the right fit before you took them up on that advice. It would definitely make the situation worse 

It may be better to find a registered behaviourist at this point rather than a dog trainer, but your dog will still be in the "decompression" stage as they're still so new to this whole home life thing. I would nix any visitors to the house for a few weeks entirely, that removes that stress and lets them calm down and get used to their new family. Then you can gradually introduce calm people to the home who can follow your instructions and not just come charging in and try to pet the dog.

There's some advice on trainers and behaviourists here, have you seen your vet with her yet? Has she had a full vet MOT in the UK or just a vet before she left Romania?
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/help-advice/behaviour/finding-behaviour-and-training-support


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Currently just the vet check before leaving Romania. I do want to take her to the vet. I was waiting for her to chill out a
Bit and now I’ve
Put her back I feel like I’m not getting anywhere soon now.


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## bunnygeek (Jul 24, 2018)

I think right now you could phone your vet for advice and see when they would like to see her, most vets probably have a few dozen foreign rescue dogs on their books now. They may be able to recommend an experienced registered (emphasis on registered) behaviourist over the phone as well. 

No more visitors to the house except for the postman. Keep everything as calm and quiet as you can with everyone (I know that can be easier said that done with children). Make sure no one is shouting or punishing her for barking, she's confused and anxious, any kind of negative behaviour from the humans could just make her more confused and anxious.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Currently just the vet check before leaving Romania. I do want to take her to the vet. I was waiting for her to chill out a
> Bit and now I've
> Put her back I feel like I'm not getting anywhere soon now.


Much of taking these dogs on can be a 1 step forward, 2 steps back process, but a step forward is better than none, & as her trust grows the steps forward will become bigger.

She had a blip with this trainer, but she's tough, she's survived to adulthood wherever she was so she will get over it.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> Much of taking these dogs on can be a 1 step forward, 2 steps back process, but a step forward is better than none, & as her trust grows the steps forward will become bigger.
> 
> She had a blip with this trainer, but she's tough, she's survived to adulthood wherever she was so she will get over it.


They believe she had a home once. She was found abandoned though. so god knows how long or what happened in her first couple of years


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 11 days ago we had our Romanian rescue dog arrive. She's 2.5.
> She's been very jumpy which is understandable but she also barks at people in the house if they come downstairs etc (usually as the children come down and she stops when she realises who it is). she barks like crazy at visitors and I have been leaving treats in the porch and telling guests to ignore her and throw a treat down when she calms. This seemed to work with her being comfortable with those guests on that occasion but obviously it would restart when they left if they returned.
> ...


Oh dear I'm so sorry but it sounds like you have gotten some really bad advice and the rescue doesn't sound very reputable either. What a double whammy.

Okay, moving forward.  
As already mentioned, let her chill for several days, weeks even. Stress hormones build in the body and can take a good while to dissipate. She's been through a lot of changes, had some bad experiences on top of that - any trainer who provokes a dog is a complete idiot who shouldn't be allowed near pet rocks let alone dogs.

She's going to need some time to settle in to her new home without any extra stressors added in. That means not meeting anyone new, not having to do anything that stresses her, and lots of opportunities to relax and blow off steam. If your garden is secure, let her mooch around in the garden however long she needs to, introduce her to frozen kongs and give her a safe space where she can chew and lick to her hearts content (chewing and licking food is calming for dogs).

Don't force any interactions. Let her have her own safe place in the house and don't let anyone approach her there, let her choose her pace with interactions. Hard as I'm sure it will be, I would encourage the kids to ignore her and not try to interact with her at all. 
Dropping treats is a great idea for later, once she has settled and you start letting her meet people, but for now let her have her space.

For the barking, if you can, I'd ignore it for now. It's part of the process of her learning to adjust. The barking at people will go away as she settles. If you can just ignore it, or if you must, just tell her gently that it's okay. But whatever you do, don't correct her or punish her, that won't help anything and will make it so much harder to build trust.

Speaking of, please don't use a slip lead, choke chain or leash corrections either. You're trying to build the relationship right now and none of that will help.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Cclpegs207 said:


> And non judgement for my silly mistakes


I've had dogs for 40years and fostered for 30 of those 
Yet I stood in the middle of my living room crying the other night 
Because 
My present foster decided all the chairs and sofa belonged to her 
And 
Despite putting all my knowledge into play, I completely foundered 
So no judgement at all from here


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Oh dear I'm so sorry but it sounds like you have gotten some really bad advice and the rescue doesn't sound very reputable either. What a double whammy.
> 
> Okay, moving forward.
> As already mentioned, let her chill for several days, weeks even. Stress hormones build in the body and can take a good while to dissipate. She's been through a lot of changes, had some bad experiences on top of that - any trainer who provokes a dog is a complete idiot who shouldn't be allowed near pet rocks let alone dogs.
> ...


This is how I felt about corrections. I was happy to wait it out with barking and treat quiet and calm. I was happy to redirect on dog walks or hold a treat as people walked past and honestly that worked even in just days. We didn't go as far as to make her fearful, but closer each time. Now walks are fine. I just turn around if we seem to be getting worked up.

she goes to her crate whenever she wants and the rule is to leave her alone if she's in her crate, the older 2 fully understand this. The younger one is just supervised by us.

I will try to ignore the barking. It makes me nervy. I think last night traumatised me as well as her. 
What a mess


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> This is how I felt about corrections. I was happy to wait it out with barking and treat quiet and calm. I was happy to redirect on dog walks or hold a treat as people walked past and honestly that worked even in just days. We didn't go as far as to make her fearful, but closer each time. Now walks are fine. I just turn around if we seem to be getting worked up.
> 
> she goes to her crate whenever she wants and the rule is to leave her alone if she's in her crate, the older 2 fully understand this. The younger one is just supervised by us.
> 
> ...


Well, her improvement on walks and the willingness to go in her crate sound as if you achieved a lot in just eleven days. Is she still okay with these, or do you think her experience with the idiot trainer have set her back? In either case I'd back-pedal for a few days so as not to overwhelm her. Keep it quiet and simple (and if necessary explain to your children that the trainer has frightened her and she needs time to herself to get over it).

Now this is difficult, but try not to get nervy when she barks - she'll pick this up from you and it could well make her worse. Quiet and gentle, praise and treats when she quietens down.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Cclpegs207 said:


> The advice was to use a spray bottle. I feel lost because it just doesn't sit right.


NO spray bottle or anything aversive. She's acting the way she is because she's scared, confused and is in a whole new, unknown universe. Like you being dropped into a place you don't recognise, with aliens whose intentions towards you are unknown.

The trainer was an idiot; maybe those methods work for some dogs by shutting down the symptoms but the root cause is still there.

Patience, management, routine and 'reading' what she's uncomfortable with will get you a lot closer to what you want for her.

cross posted with just about everybody .

More edit. I think you're doing really well, your instincts not to follow bad advice are spot on. If you can 'manage' her with your children then I have high hopes for this.
The barking is likely to be based in fear rather than aggression; she's most likely calling for reinforcements because she's scared of something unknown, so if she can start to see you as backup, if you can be seen to deal with the situation, then I'm sure it'll get less.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

tyg'smum said:


> Well, her improvement on walks and the willingness to go in her crate sound as if you achieved a lot in just eleven days. Is she still okay with these, or do you think her experience with the idiot trainer have set her back? In either case I'd back-pedal for a few days so as not to overwhelm her. Keep it quiet and simple (and if necessary explain to your children that the trainer has frightened her and she needs time to herself to get over it).
> 
> Now this is difficult, but try not to get nervy when she barks - she'll pick this up from you and it could well make her worse. Quiet and gentle, praise and treats when she quietens down.


Just had a walk to try a build up a more positive experience and she was fine, treats
Offered, fine walking by people, saw dogs, noises and all fine. she likes her crate but we don't shut the door as she's never seemed to like that so we just allow her to go there to sleep and we leave her to it.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Cclpegs207 said:


> What a mess


It's not a mess - I just want to throw you some encouragement.

Look at all the good stuff. You recognised the problems. Your instincts over the trainer, and the corrections, and the spray bottle are all spot on and you really need to congratulate yourself on that. Do you know how many people would have just kept going because they had been told to? And no criticism of them either, if a so-called professional tells you something, you ought to be able to trust that. So even more kudos to you for realising something was 'off'. And for doing something about it.

And, you know what I said earlier about the stress hormone getting topped up over and over again until there is a spill? That's where you are too. On a good day, with an empty stress tank, this would not be as much of an ordeal. Honestly.

So please try not to think it is hopeless, when Sairy comes online, if she is close enough to you and you choose to work with her, she will be able to give you an honest and reliable assessment and a plan. And if my rubbish geography means that she isn't able to help, there is every chance she (or another member) will know someone who can.

It is now time to self-medicate with chocolate.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Linda Weasel said:


> NO spray bottle or anything aversive. She's acting the way she is because she's scared, confused and is in a whole new, unknown universe. Like you being dropped into a place you don't recognise, with aliens whose intentions towards you are unknown.
> 
> The trainer was an idiot; maybe those methods work for some dogs by shutting down the symptoms but the root cause is still there.
> 
> ...


currently managing by separating the smallest and the dog with a baby gate, they can see and hear each other but no actual contact. Just living in proximity. not sure how and when I'd move from that but that's where I'm at


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Hi @Cclpegs207 I'm sorry to hear what you and your lovely dog have been through. I have been tagged into this post as I am a dog trainer and my colleague is a behaviourist. We are based in Staffordshire, West Midlands. I also visit Bromsgrove fairly regularly as my parents live there. If you live anywhere near either of those locations then I am happy to help you. You have had some great advice on here.

If you would like more information about us then here is our website and Facebook page

www.throughthedogseyes.com
www.facebook.com/throughthedogseyes


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Not sure how I can make this work with this dog and our family.


It's really early, early days, no time to judge yet really, but I think all the positive changes you have seen already bode really well for you 

Rescue dogs can go through so many phases and stages, the charts posted are a really good guide, but it's totally normal to continue to see phases and changes well past the 6 month mark.

We have a little fearful rescue right now who had a terrible start in life. She's been with us 9 months now, and we're still seeing little quirks pop up and then resolve as she continues to adapt to civilized life. 
Time is your friend. Time and patience, and consistency on your part. 
Dogs are generally imminently resilient and adaptable. Stick with your gut instincts which seem to be spot on, and you should be fine


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> It's not a mess - I just want to throw you some encouragement.
> 
> Look at all the good stuff. You recognised the problems. Your instincts over the trainer, and the corrections, and the spray bottle are all spot on and you really need to congratulate yourself on that. Do you know how many people would have just kept going because they had been told to? And no criticism of them either, if a so-called professional tells you something, you ought to be able to trust that. So even more kudos to you for realising something was 'off'. And for doing something about it.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Before the trainer I did feel we were getting somewhere and I saw that this dog could be such a wonderful addition. 
She's placid until the issues I've mentioned. 
I think the trainer was a
Bad idea and that is my fault but I was hoping for more of an idea on what I'm reading behaviour wise and how to manage it safely for all.
I want a dog to
Respond because they are happy here, not through fear.

after all that I
Spoke to the rescue about rescue back up
If needed and was accused of hitting the dog as she came with no issues. 
These fearful barking etc started day 2/3. 
I just feel so rubbish now.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Sairy said:


> Hi @Cclpegs207 I'm sorry to hear what you and your lovely dog have been through. I have been tagged into this post as I am a dog trainer and my colleague is a behaviourist. We are based in Staffordshire, West Midlands. I also visit Bromsgrove fairly regularly as my parents live there. If you live anywhere near either of those locations then I am happy to help you. You have had some great advice on here.
> 
> If you would like more information about us then here is our website and Facebook page
> 
> ...


Very close to staffs. I'll look you up on Facebook and get in touch if that's ok?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Thank you. Before the trainer I did feel we were getting somewhere and I saw that this dog could be such a wonderful addition.
> She's placid until the issues I've mentioned.
> I think the trainer was a
> Bad idea and that is my fault but I was hoping for more of an idea on what I'm reading behaviour wise and how to manage it safely for all.
> ...


You are *absolutely not* rubbish.

You have been given no support by the rescue and poor advice from the trainer. You are not to blame. In fact, you should give yourself a massive pat on the back for realising things weren't right with them.

But I see you are going to contact Sairy, so that's great.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Very close to staffs. I'll look you up on Facebook and get in touch if that's ok?


Absolutely! We will be very happy to help you out, and please try not to be so hard on yourself. You want to do the best for your dog and that is a wonderful thing. X


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Just had a walk to try a build up a more positive experience and she was fine, treats
> Offered, fine walking by people, saw dogs, noises and all fine. she likes her crate but we don't shut the door as she's never seemed to like that so we just allow her to go there to sleep and we leave her to it.





Cclpegs207 said:


> currently managing by separating the smallest and the dog with a baby gate, they can see and hear each other but no actual contact. Just living in proximity. not sure how and when I'd move from that but that's where I'm at


You have got this you know. All your instincts seem to be right.
Back off, let her settle and learn to trust, the more you push the more fearful she will be.



Cclpegs207 said:


> Spoke to the rescue about rescue back up
> If needed and was accused of hitting the dog as she came with no issues.
> These fearful barking etc started day 2/3.
> I just feel so rubbish now.


No way..........name and shame if you can in your area. This so called rescue needs stopping


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Cclpegs207 said:


> The advice was to use a spray bottle. I feel lost because it just doesn't sit right.


I'm so sorry you're having to deal with the rescue offering this 'advice',in my opinion it's appealing and totally letting both you and your dog down.
I have a beautiful Rommie rescue, he's been with us 8years next week.He's an amazing little dog but it took a long time,lots of patience and a willingness to go at his pace.Trust was, and to some extent potentially always will be,an issue but generally he is a calm, intelligent, beautiful little companion.I believe that he has grown into the dog he was born to be.It has been quite a journey but one that has been so worthwhile.
He was, like I would expect a lot of these dogs to be,quiet and compliant when he first arrived.Basically, they're exhausted and in shock.We protected him from having to deal with more than he could cope with wherever possible.No one was allowed to meet him for quite some time,he was walked early am and late pm, when it was quiet.He learned a lot from watching from a distance.I aimed at increasing his comfort zone but not pushing him beyond it.His progress was steady,slow at times but it is such a pleasure to see how far he's come.
His world view has changed from one where he clearly expected everyone and everything to harm him, to one where his starting point is that he's going to be liked and welcome.He can still be reactive in some circumstances,like if a bouncy off lead dog approaches him.
He's a happy,pretty well rounded dog who,even now he's getting old has a great enthusiasm for life.
Good luck if you decide that you can continue with your dog.I wouldn't expect it to be easy but if it's anything like my experience,it will be incredibly rewarding.I wouldn't have missed it for the world.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Thank you. Before the trainer I did feel we were getting somewhere and I saw that this dog could be such a wonderful addition.
> She's placid until the issues I've mentioned.
> I think the trainer was a
> Bad idea and that is my fault but I was hoping for more of an idea on what I'm reading behaviour wise and how to manage it safely for all.
> ...


Ignore the rescue - they're the ones talking rubbish. You know you haven't hit her. And I'd be very surprised indeed if a dog with her background didn't have issues.

She was probably a bit shell-shocked for the first couple of days. My rehomed girl was quiet and placid until the second night to the extent where we were thinking "Huh, this rehoming game's easy" - and then the howling and stressing out started. But we're over that (mostly!) now.

Not your fault that the trainer was clueless. No need to feel like you're rubbish. You've given your little girl a chance, and you're doing fine. You'll both get over what happened yesterday (and by the sound of it, you're nearly there).


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

rona said:


> You have got this you know. All your instincts seem to be right.
> Back off, let her settle and learn to trust, the more you push the more fearful she will be.
> 
> No way..........name and shame if you can in your area. This so called rescue needs stopping


Just read that the rescue said she came with no issues.This sounds ridiculous, and dangerous too.
I think to some extent,the rescuers in Romania can be forgiven for not being able to do a proper assessment of their dogs, although there are obviously some who try to deceive.They operate under extremely difficult conditions and many of them, in my opinion, don't have the chance or perhaps the understanding to know how different a domestic dogs life in the UK is to what they can envisage.When the dogs arrive here,they are not one of any number in a pen,who are lucky just to be fed and have their basic needs met.They are inevitably under the spotlight and having to deal with situations and relationships that they have no way of knowing how to cope with.
The UK side of these operations is a different matter all together.In my opinion,they have a responsibility to be aware of the above,to prepare potential adopters about what to expect and to support them through any issues that arise.To claim that any dog going into a new environment has no issues at all,let alone one from the background that these poor dogs come from,is beyond naive and deceitful.
You have been let down badly.Please try not to feel bad about yourself.Your little dog looks absolutely beautiful and it sounds like she's finally in caring hands.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

tyg'smum said:


> Ignore the rescue - they're the ones talking rubbish. You know you haven't hit her. And I'd be very surprised indeed if a dog with her background didn't have issues.
> 
> She was probably a bit shell-shocked for the first couple of days. My rehomed girl was quiet and placid until the second night to the extent where we were thinking "Huh, this rehoming game's easy" - and then the howling and stressing out started. But we're over that (mostly!) now.
> 
> Not your fault that the trainer was clueless. No need to feel like you're rubbish. You've given your little girl a chance, and you're doing fine. You'll both get over what happened yesterday (and by the sound of it, you're nearly there).


Thank you. I'm completely stunned at the amount of amazing support and encouragement here. I know I made a mistake with the trainer but I did do it with best of intentions.
We
Have been for a walk, had a lovely kong filled with nice treats and had some fuss. 
I'll just have to start from scratch I think.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Silverpaw said:


> Just read that the rescue said she came with no issues.This sounds ridiculous, and dangerous too.
> I think to some extent,the rescuers in Romania can be forgiven for not being able to do a proper assessment of their dogs, although there are obviously some who try to deceive.They operate under extremely difficult conditions and many of them, in my opinion, don't have the chance or perhaps the understanding to know how different a domestic dogs life in the UK is to what they can envisage.When the dogs arrive here,they are not one of any number in a pen,who are lucky just to be fed and have their basic needs met.They are inevitably under the spotlight and having to deal with situations and relationships that they have no way of knowing how to cope with.
> The UK side of these operations is a different matter all together.In my opinion,they have a responsibility to be aware of the above,to prepare potential adopters about what to expect and to support them through any issues that arise.To claim that any dog going into a new environment has no issues at all,let alone one from the background that these poor dogs come from,is beyond naive and deceitful.
> You have been let down badly.Please try not to feel bad about yourself.Your little dog looks absolutely beautiful and it sounds like she's finally in caring hands.


And it's the uk side that is communicating stating no issues pre us. I don't know how they could know that,
The rescue had her 2 months in total.
Don't know her history and didn't put her in a home to know how she'd react. I needed advice on how to move forward not being pushed to make a decision without first trying everything we can.

maybe I'm naive but I'd like to think I can win her over with kindness.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Cclpegs207 said:


> And it's the uk side that is communicating stating no issues pre us. I don't know how they could know that,
> The rescue had her 2 months in total.
> Don't know her history and didn't put her in a home to know how she'd react. I needed advice on how to move forward not being pushed to make a decision without first trying everything we can.
> 
> maybe I'm naive but I'd like to think I can win her over with kindness.


If my experience with Maci is anything to go by, I'm sure you can with time, going at her pace, kindness and consistency.Try not to place expectations on her and yourselves, just let her 'be'.She needs time to settle,build a positive relationship with you and increase her confidence.Everything else will follow but you need time to build the foundations first.Without them,things can look impressive for a time but they will come tumbling down.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

I’m hoping we can do just this. But it will take time. having pressure from the rescue saying I need to make my mind up and I’ve damaged the dog is awful.

I just wanted other advice. Not the spray bottle


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Silverpaw said:


> I think to some extent,the rescuers in Romania can be forgiven for not being able to do a proper assessment of their dogs, although there are obviously some who try to deceive.They operate under extremely difficult conditions and many of them, in my opinion, don't have the chance or perhaps the understanding to know how different a domestic dogs life in the UK is to what they can envisage.When the dogs arrive here,they are not one of any number in a pen,who are lucky just to be fed and have their basic needs met.


Yes I have one who was very damaged when he arrived



Silverpaw said:


> The UK side of these operations is a different matter all together.In my opinion,they have a responsibility to be aware of the above,to prepare potential adopters about what to expect and to support them through any issues that arise.To claim that any dog going into a new environment has no issues at all,let alone one from the background that these poor dogs come from,is beyond naive and deceitful.


Luckily the rescue who rescued mine was reputable and helped with him when his first home in UK didn't work out.
Many of these places importing dogs are just money making enterprises I'm afraid


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Silverpaw said:


> Just read that the rescue said she came with no issues.This sounds ridiculous, and dangerous too.
> *I think to some extent,the rescuers in Romania can be forgiven for not being able to do a proper assessment of their dogs, although there are obviously some who try to deceive.They operate under extremely difficult conditions and many of them, in my opinion, don't have the chance or perhaps the understanding to know how different a domestic dogs life in the UK is to what they can envisage*.When the dogs arrive here,they are not one of any number in a pen,who are lucky just to be fed and have their basic needs met.They are inevitably under the spotlight and having to deal with situations and relationships that they have no way of knowing how to cope with.
> The UK side of these operations is a different matter all together.In my opinion,they have a responsibility to be aware of the above,to prepare potential adopters about what to expect and to support them through any issues that arise.To claim that any dog going into a new environment has no issues at all,let alone one from the background that these poor dogs come from,is beyond naive and deceitful.
> You have been let down badly.Please try not to feel bad about yourself.Your little dog looks absolutely beautiful and it sounds like she's finally in caring hands.


Absolutely this, I think we in the UK forget how different culturally other nations are with regards to how they treat animals, how their laws protecting animals differ, we can all sit in our homes & say 'I'd never do that!' but we're not there living those lives & seeing some of the things they do must be incredibly hard.


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## Gibworth (Mar 2, 2021)

Sometimes the word ‘rescue’ is misused and the term ‘second hand dog salesperson’ would be a better description.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

I didn’t want to leave this thread sort of unfinished. 
I’ve had Sairy come out to meet us and she’s given us some great tips and advice.
Was a huge relief to have someone actually give advice and explain how and why rather than someone come in and ‘be the boss’ with my dog in my home. 

lady is great out of the house, you wouldn’t know she is so fearful but that itself leaves us in difficult situations where people don’t realise she’s nervous and has an unknown history. I feel very confident in telling people no, now.

I think we will be a slow and steady kind of journey but we can see a positive future. 

She did some little zoomies in the garden the other day. Haven’t seen her do that before. Each day she shows us more of a personality. It’s actually lovely to watch her grow. 

thank you for all the advice.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> I didn't want to leave this thread sort of unfinished.
> I've had Sairy come out to meet us and she's given us some great tips and advice.
> Was a huge relief to have someone actually give advice and explain how and why rather than someone come in and 'be the boss' with my dog in my home.
> 
> ...


Oh, thank you for the update! I'm so pleased to hear that Lady is settling and growing in confidence.

I know what you're going through with people not realising she's nervous. Our girl is very nervous with people (though fortunately not reactive) and a lot of people don't understand that when I ask them not to try to fuss her I actually mean it. Sometimes we have to get quite forceful (with the people, not with her!). But it does get better, promise!

Zoomies are a very good sign!

Please continue to keep us updated - we love to hear all the news.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

tyg'smum said:


> Please continue to keep us updated - we love to hear all the news.


We most certainly do


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for the update, well done to you all, including Lady.Onwards and upwards now but slowly,of course.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Lovely update, this has made me so happy!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

What a lovely update!
So glad @Sairy was such a great help


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Cclpegs207 said:


> I didn't want to leave this thread sort of unfinished.
> I've had Sairy come out to meet us and she's given us some great tips and advice.
> Was a huge relief to have someone actually give advice and explain how and why rather than someone come in and 'be the boss' with my dog in my home.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you found it useful. It was lovely to meet you all and I look forward to catching up soon


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Isn't it lovely when people come back and update us. Thank you @Cclpegs207 . I'm so glad @Sairy could help.


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

We are progressing slowly but surely. We have a channel on TikTok if anyone uses it. I can’t say we are terribly entertaining but it’s our own little prgress journal. It’s ladythekokoni if anyone wants it


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Had a massive breakthrough yesterday! Met my
Sister on a walk, lady barked initially but we stayed distant walking parallel, then my sister started to throw treats towards lady and over the period of the walk we got to walking side by side and lady was looking to her waiting for treats. She then walked into the house behind my sister and no issues when I’m the house. I’m sure she will forget this when she sees her next but I’m
Hoping to repeat this a few times. It was such a positive experience


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Baby steps but you are getting there 

Well done


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Had a massive breakthrough yesterday! Met my
> Sister on a walk, lady barked initially but we stayed distant walking parallel, then my sister started to throw treats towards lady and over the period of the walk we got to walking side by side and lady was looking to her waiting for treats. She then walked into the house behind my sister and no issues when I'm the house. I'm sure she will forget this when she sees her next but I'm
> Hoping to repeat this a few times. It was such a positive experience


So pleased to hear this, well done to all involved.We have always had some issues with people he doesn't know really well and trust coming to the house with Maci.I say that they have to earn a place on his list to be able to do sne thing I found with him was that he finds it a lot easier if I take him out to meet them and they enter the house with him.So the message has always been,text/ring me when you arrive and we'll come out and get you.It's amazing how honoured people seem to be when he adds them to his list.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

Cclpegs207 said:


> Had a massive breakthrough yesterday! Met my
> Sister on a walk, lady barked initially but we stayed distant walking parallel, then my sister started to throw treats towards lady and over the period of the walk we got to walking side by side and lady was looking to her waiting for treats. She then walked into the house behind my sister and no issues when I'm the house. I'm sure she will forget this when she sees her next but I'm
> Hoping to repeat this a few times. It was such a positive experience


That really is a massive breakthrough. Well done you, and Lady!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Fantastic news!


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

That's fantastic news, thank you for the update


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## Cclpegs207 (May 20, 2021)

Hello, 

so I made that post over a year ago. I did meet with Sarah and have worked soo hard with lady. I thought I’d never have her around guests. But over Xmas she showed interest in my brother and sister in law. She approached them for treats and spent the whole night jumping on their laps and asking for fusses and treats. She also happily took herself away when she’d had enough of humans. I can’t explain how happy it made me. I never thought we’d do it. 
I know that she may not be like this with every guest. He may just be the chosen one. But that’s something and I hope maybe she enjoyed the fuss too. She was even pawing at them when they stopped.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

That's excellent news. Thank you for such a lovely update. And well done on the hard work you have put into making this happen, when you are proud of Lady don't forget to be proud of yourself too.


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