# Cat peeing in and outside litter tray.



## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Sorry tittle is a little misleading. Unable to change it. He still occasionally pees in his tray but now started peeing outside of it. 

Hi, so I've had my cat for 2 months now. He seems to of settled in, really well. He immediately started using his litter tray and we had no problems at all.

Now all of a sudden he's started peeing around his litter tray. I know he still occasionally uses it for both number 1 and 2 because I still have to clean the litter everyday.

I know it's not because it's not been cleaned as I done it this morning and he decided to pee outside the tray again and when I say cleaned, I don't mean bleach cleaned... just emptying the clumps etc... I do clean it properly, once or twice a week.

Nothing has changed, we've been using the same litter and the tray has always been in the same spot. (bathroom).

Not sure if this is relevant or not but hes always wiping his paws around the area where his litter tray is, on the walls and doors, side of bath etc..

Any ideas, why all of a sudden he's started doing this?

Thanks.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I would suspect a urinary tract problem and bring him to the vet. 

Also, provide another litter box. Many cats prefer separate places to pee and poop, it is instinctual behavior.

Be sure to feed him a wet diet.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Okay, thanks. I had a feeling it might of been, I just wasn't sure if it was behavioural as he can be a little tinker at times haha.

He's on a 100% wet diet, I will start adding a litter extra water to his meals and I will ring the vet today and sort an appointment out. Thanks.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

PipPerry said:


> Okay, thanks. I had a feeling it might of been, I just wasn't sure if it was behavioural as he can be a little tinker at times haha.
> 
> He's on a 100% wet diet, I will start adding a litter extra water to his meals and I will ring the vet today and sort an appointment out. Thanks.


What do you want the title to read, I can change it for you ?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

That's great that he is 100% wet and makes the possibility that he just wants another litter box more likely. But stress can cause urinary tract disorders, and getting a new home can be stressful for a cat, no matter how well he seems to have settled in.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Okay, I will add another tray and see what happens. Thanks for prompt reply. 

And if you could change the title to 'cat peeing in and outside of litter tray'. Thanks.


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

PipPerry said:


> Okay, I will add another tray and see what happens. Thanks for prompt reply.
> 
> .


when you get the 2nd litter tray don't place it next to the first one as he'll only see it as one large tray ! It needs to be in a different location. You could also try putting a puppy training pad or the ones used for training toddlers to go through the night under the trays - much easier to replace than having to keep washing the floor !



PipPerry said:


> Not sure if this is relevant or not but hes always wiping his paws around the area where his litter tray is, on the walls and doors, side of bath etc..


lots of cats do this ! seems to be an instinctive behaviour to ensure that their waste is properly hidden from predators ! you say in your initial post that he has only just started peeing outside of his tray ? so I'm wondering if he's seen another cat in the vicinity (maybe out of a window ) and is feeling stressed ? If so it could be stress related cystitis which the vet will be able to give him medication for.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

My neighbour next door has a female cat. We have introduced them.. They just stayed away from each other. No hissing or spikey hair stance (not sure the proper name for it) but they met a good month or so ago now. I do let my cat out into the back.. Where the other cat also adventures.. So maybe something has happened which I've not heard or seen...


I live in quite a small flat. We have the bathtoom which is linked to the kitchen.. Where his main tray is.. Would it be okay to perhaps put the second tray somewhere in the kitchen? At night we tend to leave the cat in the kitchen with bathroom door open ofc. Would having a second tray closer to his bed cause an issue?


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

PipPerry said:


> My neighbour next door has a female cat. We have introduced them.. They just stayed away from each other. No hissing or spikey hair stance (not sure the proper name for it) but they met a good month or so ago now. I do let my cat out into the back.. Where the other cat also adventures.. So maybe something has happened which I've not heard or seen...
> 
> I live in quite a small flat. We have the bathtoom which is linked to the kitchen.. Where his main tray is.. Would it be okay to perhaps put the second tray somewhere in the kitchen? At night we tend to leave the cat in the kitchen with bathroom door open ofc. Would having a second tray closer to his bed cause an issue?


I too live in a small flat - I have one tray in the bathroom and the other is in the hall. You could try one in the kitchen but he may not like it close to his bed and/or eating area. It's really trial and error ! Is his tray a standard 'open' one or a covered one ? I found that covered ones for my cat has eliminated the problem of the occasional spray or mishap, but if you go that route take the 'door' off as they do like to be able to see out to watch for predators whilst they're in a vulnerable position.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Great, thank you so much for your help. 

He has a covered litter tray with a see through 'door'. I'll try removing the door but doubt that is the issue as he still does pee in his litter tray.. But during the past week it's been in and out.

Trial and error for a week or so then I'll take him to the vets.. Or should I take him to vets ASAP? 

My only worries is (silly me) .. I've only just bought his insurance and have to wait 14 days for any illness or injury to be covered... Although to be fair I won't be claiming for a simple urine infection (if it were the issue) .


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> Great, thank you so much for your help.
> 
> He has a covered litter tray with a see through 'door'. I'll try removing the door but doubt that is the issue as he still does pee in his litter tray.. But during the past week it's been in and out.
> 
> ...


The insurance company will ask you when your pet first started showing symptoms. If you lie about that it's technically fraud, and will certainly be found out if you're fully honest about when they started with your vet.

And prolonging treatment could lead to more serious complications that you would want to be covered (e.g. if a blockage occurred)....

Have you observed what he's doing when he is peeing around the tray? Any signs of pain? Any blood? When my dad's cat had cystitis he would try for AGES to do a pee bless him and you could see the look of concentration/pain on his face, and it just wouldn't happen. In the absence of any of these it may just be something "behavioural" or something about the environment he doesn't like.

I would take the door and potentially the top of the tray off as well and see if it helps though, first. Cats don't all like covered trays, it may be he is trying to put up with it for your benefit but prefers not to. I realised my cat didn't want to do poops in his covered tray as I think his ears touched the top and it made him feel closed in. When I took the lid off he was much happier to use it.

If he has already done a wee or a poo in the tray, he may not want to then go and do another one. Probably more likely if he has done a poo, he may not then want to do a wee in the same tray, so the second tray becomes the recommendation.

Or it may just be that if there already is stuff in there, with it being all closed in, he doesn't feel like he has enough room to maneuver to aim where he wants so gives up and goes outside...


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Okay thanks for the heads up about the insurance. If I were to go to the vets for this I will pay whatever I need to pay out of my own money and leave the insurance out of it.

I've just gotten home. I've placed a second litter box (open/no top) in the kitchen but out of sight from his bed and food bowl. I've also properly cleaned his main litter box and removed the door. There were no pee or poo in any the litter after being left alone for about 5 hours today but I cleaned it and put fresh litter in anyways. I'm pleased to say there was no pee on the floor. But I'm a little worried that he hasn't peed in 5 hours?

I've just fed him and had to go out for a few hours so I'll see if there's any good results when I return home tonight. Fingers crossed.

I do think that he's not a good drinker... I change his water morning and night and very rarely see less water in the bowl when I return from work. So I'm gonna start adding water to his food again. I used to do that but he was peeing quite a lot so I stopped doing that but thinking of it maybe that was the best for him... On average.. How often do cats pee?


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> Okay thanks for the heads up about the insurance. If I were to go to the vets for this I will pay whatever I need to pay out of my own money and leave the insurance out of it.
> 
> I've just gotten home. I've placed a second litter box (open/no top) in the kitchen but out of sight from his bed and food bowl. I've also properly cleaned his main litter box and removed the door. There were no pee or poo in any the litter after being left alone for about 5 hours today but I cleaned it and put fresh litter in anyways. I'm pleased to say there was no pee on the floor. But I'm a little worried that he hasn't peed in 5 hours?
> 
> ...


If he's on 100% wet food you probably won't see him drink and that's quite normal. They are used to getting their water from food. My Joey didn't pee whilst I was at work all day today, but he didn't do much of anything, I only saw him walk by the camera once presumably to get some grub and then he slept the rest of the day. As soon as I got home he went for a wee!

If he does have a urinary tract infection it would probably be treated for less than your excess anyways, so wouldn't be worth using insurance. But if he's not gone all day not even tiny amounts I'm sort of leaning toward it maybe not being the case, but still you must be open to the possibility


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Even if you don’t claim on insurance, the vet visit will be logged and the urinary issue noted. If you changed insurers, or tried to claim with this same company at a later date then it would be classed as a ore existing issue and potentially excluded


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

I understand, thanks. Luckily all is well. Adding a second litter box has seemed to of solved the issue  I now have insurance as well with PP with life cover so my mind is at ease for any future problems. Thanks for all your help.


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> I understand, thanks. Luckily all is well. Adding a second litter box has seemed to of solved the issue  I now have insurance as well with PP with life cover so my mind is at ease for any future problems. Thanks for all your help.


Brilliant! So glad for you! Thanks for letting us know


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Ha, well I spoke to soon!

He's at it again!!  both litter trays were clean and he's been using both for the past week.

We're starting to think it's a defiant/naughty behaviour..

I woke up quite early this morning to use the loo and there was nothing there. We have to walk through the kitchen where Pip sleeps, so I for a change I let Pip out hoping he would come cuddle us for a bit, as he does most of the time at night.

But instead he was a little hyper. He just wanted to play so he started love biting and trying to (nicely) catch our feet under the blanket... But it was only about 4am.. I'm of cold and just wanted to sleep.

Ichanged my tone and told him 'No' to get him to stop but he continued.. So I went to pick him up to put him back into the kitchen... He knew it, as he was running corner to corner of the room so I couldn't catch him. I then put him back in the kitchen as a way of me saying I don't approve of his over aggressive behaviour (especially the play biting/mouthing) as I normally do.

So that's the reason why I'm maybe thinking it's a way of Pip saying FU to me after I kick him out the room and coming to think of it... I'm starting to see a pattern of this as he also done it after I told him off for being a little too agressive the last few times. If its worth mentioning.. It's always in the same spot.


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> Ha, well I spoke to soon!
> 
> He's at it again!!  both litter trays were clean and he's been using both for the past week.
> 
> ...


Cats don't really understand "naughty", and I'm not sure they even "be naughty" on purpose - more, what we consider to be naughty behaviour is usually rooted in something causing them displeasure so it causes them to act out of sorts. The key is to positively reinforce good behaviour, rather than negatively reinforce bad. Of course that's easier said than done when they are biting you.

So it means, do nothing when he bites, maybe squeal like another kitten/cat would, until he stops. When he stops and is calm, give him a treat.

This has worked quite well with us for a mixture of behaviours for example we've managed to train Joey out of trying to get up our laps when we are having dinner at the table (unless it's something _really_ smelly he can't resist the urge to investigate). It's annoying as humans, it meant a lot of getting up, picking him up, putting him down, giving him positive reinforcement/a toy/treat etc, but he learned. Same applied for playing with the blinds on our windows, which is annoying for sure but my main worry is that one of them is a little loose and he could bring it down out of the window mount!!!

All that said, if he is locked away from you at night, he may be getting lonely/fearful/*stressed* by it and stressed kitties are more likely to do things like show their displeasure.

Maybe I'm a soft touch but we've had the bedroom door for Joey open since he came home from the hospital. Yes, it's irritating when he wakes us at 3am, but it's equally lovelyy when he snuggles in at 6am. I kinda assume the early morning wake up is just part of having a cat and it's part of what we signed up for. I suppose you need to weigh up the annoyance of that versus the litter box issue, but Pip's wellbeing is important as well and if that *is* the cause, he may be getting pretty upset to be away from you at night.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@PipPerry - it is the case that some cats do spray or soil indoors as a way of comforting themselves when they are stressed or upset. I have a cat like this myself. I don't know if this is what is happening with your cat, but it's worth bearing in mind.

But it is vitally important to understand that soiling (or spraying) is not done out of defiance or naughtiness, but because the cat feels very stressed and doesn't know how to deal with it. My 8 yr old cat can be like this if he wants to go outdoors at night and is shut in with litter trays. He likes to go out at night in mild weather, so I let him out and he is happy. He was a stray before I rescued him and this may be why he hates being shut indoors against his will.

Your cat may have got distressed by being put back in the kitchen when he just wanted to play with you nicely. Cats are crepuscular, meaning they are at their most active at dawn and dusk. So 4 o'clock in the morning is the start of your cat's day in the summer months, not the middle of the night as it is for you.

Cats are not like children, they do not reason out why humans may react as they do. Instead they interpret things using feline terms of reference. So all your cat knows is you were cross with him for some reason when he was being playful, and you shut him away from you making him feel lonely or rejected.

I am not suggesting you should let your cat dictate how you live your life.  But if when he began biting your feet you had squealed "ouch" he may have stopped. (Squealing 'ouch' is more effective than saying "no" when it comes to biting). if he still wouldn't stop playing then I'd carry him calmly to the kitchen, give him some strokes, and a tasty snack of wet food, before you leave him. That way his attention is redirected to his food, he feels comforted and is not going to feel he is being punished for being friendly and playful with you.

I recall you have described your cat as being quite feisty - ("a little tinker sometimes" ). My cat is the same - he is quite a character! I like that!


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Thank you both, so much for taking the time in providing 2 great replies with some valuable information for me and my partner to take on board.

I will change my ways and will put your advice into effect immediately. He's the most adorable thing ever and I don't want him to be stressed or fearful of playing. I do play daily with him so I don't want him to feel like he can't do so. So we will change are ways. 

I'm just wondering, when your cats wake you up at 3/4/5am. Do you feed them at that time immediately as they wake or do you wait until later on in the morning?

Again, thank you for all this information we've found it incredibly helpful. It's our first cat so we're still learning. 

I will keep you update on our progress


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Thank you for your appreciative reply. 

As far as feeding wakeful cats in the night I have adopted different methods with different cats :-

1/ Currently for two cats I leave snacks of wet food overnight in their room, in a battery operated autofeeder timed to open around 4 hours after their previous meal. Then they get breakfast later when I get up at 8 am.

This is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cat-Mate-C...-1&keywords=cat+mate+c20+automatic+pet+feeder

2/ For a previous cat, I always kept a covered dish of cat food on my bedside table overnight, so all I needed do was place dish on the floor for my cat when he woke me in the night.

3/ One cat used to need reassurance in the night when he was getting on in years, so I used to get up and give food and strokes, then settle him again in the room where he slept.

It may be the case your cat is just hungry when he wakes you during the night. Being "crepuscular" means he has a strong instinct to hunt at dawn and dusk. In his case "hunting" means waking his human companions so they get up and feed him.  So it could be that leaving him food in a timed autofeeder is the answer, and he will eat and go back to sleep until you get up.

However he could be like my cat was and want a bit of affection as well as food, in the night.


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> Thank you both, so much for taking the time in providing 2 great replies with some valuable information for me and my partner to take on board.
> 
> I will change my ways and will put your advice into effect immediately. He's the most adorable thing ever and I don't want him to be stressed or fearful of playing. I do play daily with him so I don't want him to feel like he can't do so. So we will change are ways.
> 
> ...


Well, sometimes my other half gets up at 4 so he will feed Joey then whilst I grumble. 

But if he's not on earlies, and I think he will be peckish, I put his timed feeder down and set it to open around 3/4am. He is still growing though! Not sure I'll still do this when he is nearer pip's age as it may be a meal too many, but maybe a small snack will help? The timed feeder we have has an ice pack to go under the food trays so the food stays fresh and it was £20-25 on amazon. Can't link as I'm on mobile at the mo.

Sometimes he doesn't want food then though and he waits until 6/6:30am, I know this because he stubbornly refuses to eat the food I put down before bed if it's something he's not too fussed on


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Oh and Joey has quiet toys for upstairs (can’t recall if you are in a flat, so maybe think nearer the bedroom), so he can play but no jangly balls at 4am


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Okay, fantastic. I've purchased quite a few toys for him but the only one he likes is the feather wand. We're going to test the waters with him. If it turns out he just wants fed then I will invest in the timed feeder. We give him a small bowl of wet just before we go to sleep (about 10pm). If it's affection he's wanting... Then we're just going to have to deal with it haha. We're trying for a baby so it will mentally prepare us for those early morning feedings haha. Thanks again.


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

PipPerry said:


> Okay, fantastic. I've purchased quite a few toys for him but the only one he likes is the feather wand. We're going to test the waters with him. If it turns out he just wants fed then I will invest in the timed feeder. We give him a small bowl of wet just before we go to sleep (about 10pm). If it's affection he's wanting... Then we're just going to have to deal with it haha. We're trying for a baby so it will mentally prepare us for those early morning feedings haha. Thanks again.


If he's allowed in the room with you and it is just comfort/company, you may find you get an undisturbed night with no accidents if he's just allowed to sleep by your feet or something. Or maybe he has a bed he likes you can put in there?


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Yeah he's allowed to spend time with us whilst we're in bed before we go to sleep. He has got a box which I've converted into a little sleeping "house" on top of the wardrobe, which he loves. Some nights he loves relaxing his house and other nights he likes his snuggles. He also has another bed in the kitchen which he also really likes. I'm on nightshift so my partner will keep me updated on how her nights goes with him, with the doors open


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Hi everyone. Just an update.

We were starting to feel like we managed to nip this in the butt... BUT he has now peed on our couch. This is the first time in 2 weeks he's peed anywhere outside of his litter box (that we know of anyways!) I'm a clean freak and regularly clean and haven't came across any other pee spots

The changes we made:

We placed his litter box in the corner/on the spot he was peeing in. It was only a few feet away from where his litter box was originally placed. Plus there's also less 'traffic' in that corner so I think he does prefer it there.

He also has a second litter box in the kitchen, He uses both of them. One in the kitchen has a cover and the one in the bathroom is just a simple tray.

We no longer put him into the kitchen at night times. He's now free to wonder around most of the house rather than just the kitchen and this has without a doubt relaxed him, he's much calmer than he use to be and he's so much more affectionate. He sometimes sleeps with us on the bed or goes into his bed on top of the wardrobe. We do get woken up at 4am to feed him but we've got used to this already, a timed feeder is on our shopping list though haha.

We no longer "punish" him by removing him from the room when he gets over stimulated and love bites. He still occasionally does it, but it's a lot more chilled/playful/soft and so cute haha. Both of these changes have certainly strengthened the bond we have with him.


So now we're confused to why he has started to use the couch.

My thoughts are:

There's a cat next door he regularly sees through the window. We're friends with the owner of that cat and we have introduced the cats. There's no tension between them from what we see they just stay out of each others way. So could it be a territorial thing?

The second litter tray we bought is quite small, so does he not like this tray? But he was peeing in the corner before we got this tray? Does he not like both of the trays we have? But he still uses them on a regular basis.

Any ideas? I'm doing the process of elimination to try and figure out why he's doing this.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Peeing on a soft surface such as a couch can be an indication of a UTI or cystitis. Have you had hm checked by the vet? 

If it is cystitis it could be stress related, possibly caused by sight of next door's cat..

A cat with any bladder problem, such as soiling, is best fed a wet food diet only, with a little extra water added to his wet food. Water, water, water is the best treatment. Plus a diet that is high in meat protein, and low in carbs. A high meat protein diet is acidifying to the urine and so bacteria do not easily survive in the urinary tract. The wet food diet increases the volume of urine and makes peeing more comfortable and more frequent so the bladder is flushed through regularly.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

He's on a 100% wet food (Bozita and Animonda Carny) mixed with a bit of water (morning and night).

I have not been to the vets as of yet as since we introduced his second litter, it's the first time we've found a wet spot anywhere else.

He's still very active, very playful and overall in a very content and relaxed state around us.. Would he not be poorly if he were to have an infection? I'll do some googling and will arrange a vet appointment (just incase) but what signs would there be if he were to have an infection? 

Thanks


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If he had a UTI or cystitis he might be off his food, sleeping a lot, and be visiting the litter tray frequently and passing small pees. Maybe crying as he is peeing, maybe straining and passing nothing. 

When did he start peeing on the couch? Did it coincide with any changes in the home environment ?


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@PipPerry 
Hi,
Does the cat next door, come close to your house and is there a window near the couch your cat can see him from?


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

He's not showing any of those signs. First time we've found him peeing on the couch. Coincidentally after placing a litter tray in the spot he was peeing in previously (corner in the bathroom). Having the litter there is more convenient anyways.

No dodgy peeing today.

Yeah the cat often comes close to the window. Windows are open most days for fresh air.

Although I class him as a house cat... I do let my cat out to free roam most days. But he stays in close proximity 

I am starting to think its a territorial thing. I've placed an order for a second bigger litter as I'm also suspecting he's not a fan of a tiny tray (he's quite a tall cat)


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

It could be territorial indeed! If it is, something like a Feliway or Pet Remedy diffuser may help to relax him more and make him less inclined to feel like he needs to mark his territory.

It’s great that he has improved so much though, it certainly sounds like the original problem is fixed and you just have something else to contend with now!

Regarding litter box size, some cats aren’t keen on covered trays. Obviously around food it’s not ideal to have uncovered ones though. I realised Joey didn’t like pooping in his covered tray (he was venturing upstairs purely for pooping) so we took the lid off and he uses both interchangeably now. Ours are both in bathrooms  which is fine in our house really as we don’t have too many visitors and even when people are round, Joey can always go to the other tray. Both doors are never closed at the same time. If both me and hubby are using the facilities Joey always comes with me anyway just in case I want company


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@PipPerry 
I am leaning towards it being territorial as well, as the couch is near the window the other cat comes nearby. 
Maybe try a Pet Remedy diffuser near the window/couch area.


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## PipPerry (Apr 20, 2018)

Great, thank yo u both. I will order some now.


SuboJvR said:


> If both me and hubby are using the facilities Joey always comes with me anyway just in case I want company


Hahaha! Pip does this too, we find it hilarious! Same for when we're having a bath. He just loves to be with you constantly. He's certainly brung more joy to our lives!


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