# With a very heavy heart :(



## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

We may have to rehome Basil  so so upset but he is trashing our house. He didn't get on with the crate so we sectioned some of the hallway off for him to have safely but he's worked out how to open the doors and has once again shredded his bed and this time one of our pillows from the bed. OH has said this is his last strike now and 1 more incident and he will have to go. Just don't know what else I can do! I'm getting up and taking him out for longer each morning, we've bought lots of toys and chewy things for him to keep him amused, the dog walker still comes but I am at my wits end with him. It's not good for me and certainly not good for him to be getting so stressed he's being destructive. Maybe he would be better of somewhere that someone has more time to give him. Crying on the bus is becoming a regular thing for me


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I dont have a dog, have had in the past, just a suggestion, but why dont you ask your vet to refer you to an animal behaviourist, 
What breed is he, such a shame to have to rehome him, you dont know where he will end up if he carries on in another home


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

So so sorry to hear you're having problems  i don't have any advice but didn't want to read and not reply- I'm sure someone will come along with some fab advice you can give a try which will help him relax and not being destructive  x


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

How about getting a behaviourist out and working through the issues, rather than passing them on?


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

How old? Guessing lab? 

What about him not having a bed? they dont need one, if hes going to shred it then he can sleep on the floor, most pups dont get a bed till they do not chew. 

Also make sure everything is put away, give kongs. Why did he not get on with the crate? Give me a message if you want, i had the same issue with a lab a few weeks ago and my brothers lab was the same.


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## Reverie (Mar 26, 2012)

So sorry you're having such a terrible time Leanne  It seems like such a shame to rehome Bas after you went through such an ordeal with him over his skin and got through it.  It must be horrible. Do you agree with your OH about rehoming him? Because you get a say too. If I remember rightly your OH bought this dog for you before you were ready for another so it's a bit annoying for him to decide now that he's too much.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

I agree with the behaviourist suggestions. No point in not trying everything you can and passing on a problem dog too somebody else.
If he has 'issues' and you take him to a rescue what are his chances of being adopted when up against 100s of other dogs with no 'issues'


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

You could try Zylkene ,they are for calming nervous or anxious pets,i have used them on one of my cats and it really calmed her,your vet will have them or buy off the internet, they are not expensive


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

What do you mean, he didn't get on with the crate?

If you can't crate him, find a space he can't damage anything in and put a lock/bolt on the door or turn the door handles upside down so you open them by pushing up instead of down. I've got and upside down door handle on my pantry door and bolts on the door to the bathroom and the living room. Bizkit ate the plaster off my walls, my door frames, chewed through a live electric cable, ate all my hairbrushes and countless other things. Chew toys are very low value, if they don't turn into food in less than 20 seconds the dog will lose interest. Get big raw meaty bones from the butchers and leave him with one in his secure area and you might be pleasantly surprised. It worked for Bizkit.

Tell your other half you don't just get rid of a dog because he damaged a few things :thumbdown:. A dog is not disposable you can work through this


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Can you afford a behaviourist? Dog daycare? Extra dog walking visits? Have you tried 'Adaptil' products or other natural calmatives? I would imagine OH saying "1 more strike" hasn't helped an already stressful situation?

Can you pet gate the rooms that he can open doors to? Fit locks?

How long does he get in the morning - I used to get up at 0430 when I worked to give Kilo a decent walk; it really was worth it.

What an awful situation .


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree with other posters If you can get a behaviourist in.

So sorry you are having such a traumatic time.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

It would be an awful shame to rehome him because of this. I'm sure something can be resolved, who would he go to if you did rehome him? Im backing the idea of getting a professional in to try and help.

I dont envy your situation, you must be living on eggshells with him. 

Didnt want to read and run, heres hoping something can be resolved.

xxx


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

This can be fixed, i know its annoying and frustrating but a dog can not ruin your house if you give him nothing to wreck. 

Take away his bed, he can sleep on floor, after few days give cheap towel, chews it then remove an try again days later. 

Remove everything what he could get, pillows, etc, shut doors. 

If you section off a part with nothing in apart from his toys and water bowl. 

Work on a leave it command, lots of basic training command, lots of exercise, fetching and heel work. 

Give bones to chew, kongs etc. 

Get anti chew strips to put on walls, skirting boards etc. 

It honestly can be worked on, get a behaviourist if you need help. Also if he chews anything, ignore him, dont tell him off, dont interact with him, remove him from room and clean up.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

SixStar said:


> How about getting a behaviourist out and working through the issues, rather than passing them on?


Id love to get the issues sorted out. By no means am I looking to pass the problems on! But a behaviourist costs money and things are stupidly tight with us at the moment and ongoing sessions with a behaviourist would be quite far out of our budget I would imagine. But it's certainly something I will look into. I distraught about the whole situation as we've just lost our cat, we lost sasha less than a year ago an now I'm facing possibly losing Basil too


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

If you can afford dog daycare that would really help with the destructiveness and his dog manners too.

It doesn't need to be permanent. As he gets older he'll settle more in the house when you are out.

Dog daycare would also really tire him out so your OH could tolerate him more.

I have used daycare with very energetic young dogs who woudn't sleep for hours if left alone even after a long walk. As dogs get older they will sleep for much longer after exercise.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

What's your gut feeling, boredom or separation anxiety?
Have you trained him to be be happy alone? 
have you filmed him or done a sound recording?

If you suspect SA have you read the sticky in the training section ? http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/112552-how-help-dog-separation-anxiety.html

If it's boredom maybe not extending the walk but spending sometime doing some mentally challenging training or games would be enough to keep him calm till the dog walker comes. then maybe have a stuffed kong ready for them to give him when they leave.

Another possibility, how well recommended was your dog walker, there are some charlatans about that seem to think that taking them for a ride in the van letting them out for a wee constitutes a walk.

I do hope you are able to work around this, you have been through so much.


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

Sorry - have just seen your post saying funds are tight.

Daycare even twice or 3 times a week would help.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

leannelatty said:


> Id love to get the issues sorted out. By no means am I looking to pass the problems on! But a behaviourist costs money and things are stupidly tight with us at the moment and ongoing sessions with a behaviourist would be quite far out of our budget I would imagine. But it's certainly something I will look into. I distraught about the whole situation as we've just lost our cat, we lost sasha less than a year ago an now I'm facing possibly losing Basil too


Check your insurance policy; they may cover behaviourist costs.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Try doing something that challenges his brain like agility? Stuff kongs full of frozen food, that would keep him occupied for a bit longer.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Keep trying with the crate, the crate will stop all this behaviour 

I hope it all sorts for you x


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

His only a baby isn't he  I expect dogs to chew and be naughty to some degree until around 18 months old. Shelby killed 4-5 beds in that time so got a plastic style one, destroyed fence panels, dug holes the list is long . 

I would say back to basics with create training or puppy proof a room. Until 18m-2 years that is what he is !


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## WildDog (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm no expert, but I would listen to the advice everyone is giving. Trust me, rehoming a dog is like suicide. It literally kills. I'm really sorry that you have to go through this pain. Please, do anything in your power to be able to get your pup to be less destructive so the both of you can live happily for the next decade to come. I don't want to see anyone suffering through rehoming.


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## Freddie and frank (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi, was just going to suggest seeing if your insurance would cover a behaviourist.

Can't suggest anything that hasn't been said but it must be awful being in your situation.

Hope you can sort it out soon.

I've probably missed this, but how old is he?


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

depending on where you rehome him,if he goes to a rescue the behaviour will get worse as there are so many dogs needing help,and a kennel environment is not the place to solve this
also alot of rescues won`t deal with this behaviour fullstop.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I feel really sad because I've been waiting for this.
Things must be difficult but please try all the suggestions.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Pointermum said:


> His only a baby isn't he  I expect dogs to chew and be naughty to some degree until around 18 months old. Shelby killed 4-5 beds in that time so got a plastic style one, destroyed fence panels, dug holes the list is long .
> 
> I would say back to basics with create training or puppy proof a room. Until 18m-2 years that is what he is !


I must have missed this somewhere. If he's only a pup, this is a phase you're going to have to get through I'm afraid. Too many young dogs like this end up in rescue centres, don't let yours be another.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Where abouts in the country are you?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Do you have a garden? 
If you do how about a kennel and run? Although he would probably bark... 

I hope you can sort this out!


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

What else has he destroyed? A pillow and his bed a couple of times doesn't sound that bad and isn't destroying your home. You need to try to sort out if his behaviour is genuine separation anxiety or under stimulation and boredom as the solutions will be very different. As MV said videoing/recording will be a great help.

Can't you carry on with the crate training or put him in a room where he doesn't have access to anything he can destroy for the time being?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

What is he 12/13 months ? 

Did you not expect him to hit adolescence


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Aww Leanne, I know you're having a rough time, and it does strain relationships when the dogs play up like this but your OH needs to pull himself up by the bootstraps! This is something you both entered into (him moreso because he brought Basil in the first place!!!) and he can't lay down ultimatums about him just because he's hit a bad patch at the moment. His age could be a huge factor, plus the change with you working now, it's something you have to just take a deep breath about and try to overcome, not get rid. You've been to hell and back with him, whats a few more months?


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Dont know if this has been mexntioned as just read the 1st post, but try putting your door handles on the other way, then he'll have to push them up rather than just jump and scrab at them


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> Id love to get the issues sorted out. By no means am I looking to pass the problems on! But a behaviourist costs money and things are stupidly tight with us at the moment and ongoing sessions with a behaviourist would be quite far out of our budget I would imagine. But it's certainly something I will look into. I distraught about the whole situation as we've just lost our cat, we lost sasha less than a year ago an now I'm facing possibly losing Basil too


Hes only a pup, you dont have to get a behaviourist.

He can not destroy things if there is nothing to destroy. When i had a foster with me for a few weeks he wrecked my house so i sectioned off part of the hallway like you and he had waterbowl, his toys and that was it. I then gave him a towel and if he ruined it then took it away tried again etc. You have to be tough on him, hes gonna wreck things then he wont have anything untill he learns. Long walks, lots of games, lots of leave games.

With persistance and time you will get through it, it is a stage unfortunately that most pups go through, some worse than others.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

zylkene works like a charm for alfie, id give it a go before even thinking about rehoming.

think about it though, in terms of destroying a pillow and a bed are small potatoes. i know they may seem big, but my mother had a puppy who chewed through a wall and they kept him and worked on it. he also did the flooring and refused to be house trained.

is he bored? ho long is he left in the day?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

keep the dog, dump the OH

the dog will always be happy to see you, never let you down and wont pull the quilt off you at night


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

We had two washing machines destroyed with our Great Dane, and still have his claw marks at the top of the door frames! Pups/adoloescents do chew and can be very destructive.

I know it's really difficult - my OH did not like the GD at all, but we worked through it and now can laugh at all the damage he caused us. But even he grew out of it by about 2 years of age. (GDs take a long time to grow up!).

You've been given some great advice here. I feel really sorry for you as you've had a lot to go through recently. Surely it's your OH's first reaction and when he's thought about it he'll want to work with you to try and keep him. 

He will get used to you working, and he will grow up. That's what you've got to keep telling yourself - and your OH!


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Thank you guys all the advice and support. Obviously we did expect him to hit adolesence and that combined with him suddenly going from having me home all day to being on his own for a large portion of the day will obviously have its affects on him. Re-homing is the LAST thing that i want and i certainly don't want to pass him onto someone else while hes got issues. 

We dont have a doggy daycare anywhere in the area and i dont drive so i cant even get him in the car and take him somewhere out of the way before i go to work. I will definately check my insurance to see if they may cover the costs for a behaviourist.

He hasnt just destroyed his bed and a pillow, hes also pulled up all the floor in the bathroom and the bedroom and chewed half the doorframe off in the bathroom too.

Weve put some hooks on the doors tonight to try and stop him getting through the doors. I dont have a garden that we could put a run in and i dont have anyone that i could take him to during the day. Hes left with a full feeding ball in the mornings with his breakfast in it and a frozen kong and a stag bar and then the dog walker gives him another frozen kong and more biscuits o=in his ball when she leaves him after his walk.

I think ive answered everyones questions and addressed their comments but sorry if ive missed anything.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

how long is it? i know to be stuck in a room for a long time would make many dogs destructive from boredom, especially since he is very young too.

is it not possible for the dog walker to take him for an hour in the day for a longer walk or maybe a doggie daycare that has a pick up service?


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> how long is it? i know to be stuck in a room for a long time would make many dogs destructive from boredom, especially since he is very young too.
> 
> is it not possible for the dog walker to take him for an hour in the day for a longer walk or maybe a doggie daycare that has a pick up service?


We just cant afford for him to be taken out for longer in the day and shes very booked up so doesnt really have the time to do more with him. Ive checked our closest doggy daycare and they dont collect and its 15 miles away which would take me over and hour and a half extra by public transport.

sorry forgot to say hes left from about 8 in the morning until 12-1230 when the dog walker comes and then again until about 530-6


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Is there a daycare near your work maybe?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

leannelatty said:


> Thank you guys all the advice and support. Obviously we did expect him to hit adolesence and that combined with him suddenly going from having me home all day to being on his own for a large portion of the day will obviously have its affects on him. Re-homing is the LAST thing that i want and i certainly don't want to pass him onto someone else while hes got issues.
> 
> We dont have a doggy daycare anywhere in the area and i dont drive so i cant even get him in the car and take him somewhere out of the way before i go to work. I will definately check my insurance to see if they may cover the costs for a behaviourist.
> 
> ...


All all sounds pretty standard damage to me  My SIL lab cross has done exactly the same, they now have properly tiled kitchen floor and the dog just gets blankets to sleep on. Is there anyway of videoing him, to see when he gets destructive.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Never had floors ripped up thank goodness but Pippa our first dog certainly liked to chew wood. Edges of the furniture like chest of drawers and bedside tables were her favourites. She just eventually grew out of it.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

I understand its pretty standard damage but the OH just wont have it! I havent anything that i could use to film him. Ive looked for a daycare near my work but there isnt one. I found one that may collect but its £21 per day and thats just not possible on our budget.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Its probably boredom really.

Its about ten hours with a half hour walk in the middle and he's a young energetic breed.
I know alfie is young too and in the day he still wants to play inbetween his walks and things.

Did you get any of the boredom buster toys for in the day?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> I understand its pretty standard damage but the OH just wont have it! I havent anything that i could use to film him. Ive looked for a daycare near my work but there isnt one. I found one that may collect but its £21 per day and thats just not possible on our budget.


Do you have a laptop do you can record the sound at least?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I think his 'issue' is just boredom and loneliness. To be honest unless he can have more time with a human or a dog pal then I guess he'll continue so maybe rehoming to someone who can give him the time he needs would be better. I am so sorry that sounds so mean but if Basil is doing all this then he isn't terribly happy so something has to give and it doesn't look like there is anyway around this. A lovely idea as it was to give him as a gift, it doesn't seem to me that your OH has thought through how to manage a dog at all. 

The only practical thing I can offer is that perhaps Basil needs an early morning walk too although that will become a problem in the dark mornings. Does your OH drive, can he offer any help with this? Do you know your dog walker well enough to ask her to do a bit more and pay later? Does she have any other contacts who could take him for a few hours? Could you trade skills for someone like a LETS scheme so they walk Basil and you do something for them in return on the days you're not working? Shared doggie care? I know that we would happily like to look after a dog for a few hours in the week and ask them to look after Molly for a hour at the weekend - could you ask any dog walkers about this?

I am sure that if you ask locally or say where you are on here, there might be people who would move mountains to help Basil. If you are near Cambridge we would try too.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> Its probably boredom really.
> 
> Its about ten hours with a half hour walk in the middle and he's a young energetic breed.
> I know alfie is young too and in the day he still wants to play inbetween his walks and things.
> ...


What a shame people don't consider a little thing like work before they get a puppy 

Familiar story for me to be honest ...


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

If he were mine I would put him in our spare bedroom with one of those basic hard plastic dog beds and a blanket. Food and water and lots of toys, especially the Kong Toys and stuff them. What ever damage he does in there is fine that's his room. When we are in I would correct any unwanted behaviour.

He could be bored or it could be separation anxiety syndrome. You will be transmitting negative vibes when you come home and that will stress the dog out more when you leave him. 

My parents BC grew out of being distructive but because he did it isn't a guarantee that Basil will. My dad had to repair the walls in the kitchen. He chewed right through to the cavity. That was everytime the dog was left on his own he chewed through in a different place. He was only left for a maximum of 4 hours a day Monday to Friday.


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## pinkpuppy (Oct 31, 2011)

I haven't got any constructive advice i am sorry but have 11 month old lab that has gone from being trustworthy left in house for last few weeks to now trashing the place each day :yikes:

Today he has eaten from a bathroom bin and eaten through the plasterboard in my kitchen, chewed the knots in the wooden floor boards.... this is despite 2 visits from the dog walker in the 7 hours that i was out the house..

I just keep repeating the word phase but i am going to crate him again tomorrow and start again with building up trust between us both... he has started getting out his crate though so will have to see how that goes.

Fingers hard crossed for you xxxx


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## Rah (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm unsure if you've answered this question - But how does he act towards the crate and why have you stopped using it?

Try to associate it with good things, like treats and play time.

Get him really excited with a toy and throw it in, when he retrieves it give him lots and lots of praise.

I know this may take time and patience, but I think the crate could be a really good option for you.

SJ


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

What did he do in the crate that makes you say he didn't get on with it?

If it's a choice between him putting up with the crate until he can "graduate" from it or going into rescue I certainly think the crate is preferable...

It is highly unfair of your OH to deliver an ultimatum like that.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I think your OH is being very unreasonable. A three strikes and your out rule doesn't work with dogs I'm afraid. Can he help with anything like driving or transport? If he's bought you this dog, I'm disgusted he wants to give it up so soon:angry: Sorry to sound so blunt but this is annoying me.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

OP - if you are going to rehome then contact a rescue and tell them u will hold in foster until his home comes up. 

He is obviously unhappy. Most dogs won't cope with what u r asking especially a young dog!


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## Freddie and frank (Mar 26, 2012)

My two went through a destructive stage but they did and basil will grow out of it.it's normal but very frustrating.
My oh still moans about frank now, and said last night that he wasn't ever coming out with him again when he's off lead.he actually said he was a nightmare.but you know what....he's MY nightmare and i love him to bits.

My sisters lab went through a worst stage than mine so they're all different.
It will pass.

Where abouts are you?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

CRATING A DOG FOR 10 HOURS A DAY MINUS AN HOURS WALK IS NOT OK!

Better for it to be in a kennel


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

Is there anyone you meet on walks, thet has a happy, healthy dog, who is at home, through the day? Could you tell them about the ultimatum, and offer them the dog walkers money, cash, to mind Basl? As always, if you are with them,they sleep away the day, butter wouldn't melt...

You might have to ask 10 people OR do you have a pensioner neighbour with a backyard, you could approach?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

place an advert in yr local paper, or village magazine for a dog walker/visitor, the pup needs some company and supervision! lol


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

We got him another kong and an extra large stagbar but all the other boredom buster toys seemed unsuitable to leave with him on his own.

He gets a walk every morning before i leave which consists of a 20 min on lead walk and 30-40 mins offlead chasing a ball and roaming.

I know i shouldnt and it pains me that i even think it but i find myself missing Sasha very much when Basil is like this. She was such an easy dog and i know hes an individual and a completely different dog but but i cant help it. And i HATE myself for making comparisions so please dont slate me for it!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

have you a camcorder?

i often set 1 up to check what our 3 do when we leave them, the results can be hilarious, but usually dead boring, and touch wood (so far) no fighting


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

Leanne
I have no advice except everybody involved is obviously suffering. You, Basil and OH. Everyone is annoyed as often happens with young dogs. I feel Basil is very unhappy though being let alone so long. Maybe try and make arrangements?
Good luck xxx


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> OP - if you are going to rehome then contact a rescue and tell them u will hold in foster until his home comes up.
> 
> He is obviously unhappy. Most dogs won't cope with what u r asking especially a young dog!


I have to agree with you for once :laugh: I have nothing against dogs being left but 8 till 6 is a long time and obviously does not suit this lifestyle. Not everyone wants their house wrecked either. I would never rehome a dog because of the damage but I might rehome one that was causing damage because my lifestyle did not suit it, for the sake of the dog rather than for my sake.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

He gets very frantic if hes been in the crate when the dog walker comes. He barks and gets very stressed. If we can get him to stay in the hall then that should solved the destruction issue. He has lots of toys out there and a small (but bigger than the crate) space to wander in and theres nothing really there to destroy. Hes far too boisterous for us to ask an elderly neighbour to watch him unfortunately. 

OH has calmed (slightly) now and is saying that if he touches any big things (sofa, bed etc) then hes out. I dont agree with him at all and have tried to explain that he is going through a phase and is bored but that doesnt matter to him. I think the main issue is that the only other dog hes has "owned" was my last dog and she was so good and could be left and wouldnt touch a thing. This has tainted his view on how a dog should behave. As i said i dont agree with him but if Basil is this unhappy or bored and theres not much more we can do about it (i will look into the behaviourist and insurance) then it must be fairer to him to try to find him a home where he will have the attention and stimulation that he needs. We would keep him until we found this home and would ask everyone they knew to help find him the best home possible. But as i said this is the very very last resort and i hate myself for even thinking about re-homing him as i love him to bits. I feel like my head is going burst and my heart is going to break. Ive honestly had one of the worst 12 months of my life!


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> He gets very frantic if hes been in the crate when the dog walker comes. He barks and gets very stressed. If we can get him to stay in the hall then that should solved the destruction issue. He has lots of toys out there and a small (but bigger than the crate) space to wander in and theres nothing really there to destroy. Hes far too boisterous for us to ask an elderly neighbour to watch him unfortunately.
> 
> OH has calmed (slightly) now and is saying that if he touches any big things (sofa, bed etc) then hes out. I dont agree with him at all and have tried to explain that he is going through a phase and is bored but that doesnt matter to him. I think the main issue is that the only other dog hes has "owned" was my last dog and she was so good and could be left and wouldnt touch a thing. This has tainted his view on how a dog should behave. As i said i dont agree with him but if Basil is this unhappy or bored and theres not much more we can do about it (i will look into the behaviourist and insurance) then it must be fairer to him to try to find him a home where he will have the attention and stimulation that he needs. We would keep him until we found this home and would ask everyone they knew to help find him the best home possible. But as i said this is the very very last resort and i hate myself for even thinking about re-homing him as i love him to bits. I feel like my head is going burst and my heart is going to break. Ive honestly had one of the worst 12 months of my life!


I feel really bad for you. Hope something is sorted out soon.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> We got him another kong and an extra large stagbar but all the other boredom buster toys seemed unsuitable to leave with him on his own.
> 
> He gets a walk every morning before i leave which consists of a 20 min on lead walk and 30-40 mins offlead chasing a ball and roaming.
> 
> I know i shouldnt and it pains me that i even think it but i find myself missing Sasha very much when Basil is like this. She was such an easy dog and i know hes an individual and a completely different dog but but i cant help it. And i HATE myself for making comparisions so please dont slate me for it!


I'm not slating you but you have to stop comparing dogs. I compared our handful Molly to my old dogs and I had to stop and think about what she needs. You can't bring Sasha back so you have to concentrate on Basil and what he wants because practically this situation cannot continue. I agree with many other thoughts that your OH cannot give and take away as it appears he has done. Thing that I don't understand is that if you were having to think about a job and presumably had a conversation about it, why did you have a dog? And why a dog of Basil's age who needs you more. Surely an oldie might have been better?

Money constraints mean you have to think outside the usual places to keep him occupied. You seem to have tried everything obvious for a solo dog. Can you find any cost savings - downgrade TV packages or mobile phones to find some free dosh?

I think you have to take up the ideas here about finding Basil more company - it costs very little to stick up a postcard in the local shop, tell us where you live (a vague area maybe!) in case a PF person can help. It's free to look on the internet and post in FB groups in your area and free to ask people on dog walks.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with Basil! 

My dad's Lab went through a stage of eating absolutely everything in the house, but she grew out of it when she reached adulthood! Seriously it's not worth rehoming a pup just because it's just being a pup, things will get better. No it's not ideal crating a dog for so long but if it's a puppy thing, he won't have to be crated forever! Get him a HUGE crate and crate train him, put plenty of toys/chews in there, water and a blanket that way he can't destroy the house.

Tbh your OH is being pretty unreasonable, 99% of pup's chew you either prepare to deal with it or you don't get a pup in the first place! I would have rehomed my OH if he told me to rehome my dogs.


Edit: sorry just seen your post about how stressed he gets when crated! If you feel like it's best for basil to rehome him, rehome him but don't do it because you feel pressured by your OH. Did the thought of rehoming him enter your head before your OH mentioned it? If so and you think it's best, do it.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Can I suggest that your OH looks at this thread and realises that an awful lot of strangers are caring much more about his partner and his dog than he appears to be. Maybe he might then care to buckle up and help out?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> I think you have to take up the ideas here about finding Basil more company - it costs very little to stick up a postcard in the local shop, tell us where you live (a vague area maybe!) in case a PF person can help. It's free to look on the internet and post in FB groups in your area and free to ask people on dog walks.


I love the idea BUT wouldn't be hugely happy handing my house keys to just anyone personally.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

TBH i don't think you need a behaviourist, he is a young bored dog .


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## littleangel01 (Jul 3, 2011)

understand wht ur going through since day one lexi has had SA very badly due to how she was treated befor i got her and also due to never beeing alone befor, she is now two years and we still have bad days. taped her so i knew it was her and not chaos

shes eated through walls doors, destroyed four sofas, every book and dvd i own is ripped or chewed tables duvets pillows two mattresses pictures wires both plugged in and not clothes she learned how to open cupboards and will eat/chew anything she can she knocks things out including plates ect shes eated 6 bins (no longer have one inside) plus many other things iv cme home and sat on the floor crying some times i can barley look t her  but shes my baby and i love her to bits 

tried crate training but she claws her way out the second the door is closed (fine when open) but this is due to her not liking small enclosed spaces. tried a room of her own and she ate her way through the door or ripped the handle out so it wouldnt shut she also learned how to open doors when the handle is upside down (not joking) she wont touch kongs or bones and toys till im back

i now have baby locks on the cupords, locks on all doors upstairs and the kitchen door, she gets a min of two hours excersize a day only has the run or the living room hall stairs and landing she is also on tablets from the vet to calm her altho they are for other problems to 

as has been said he is a pup, believe me if it ever came ot you rehoming you will never forgive yourself if you or your OH wants to see what a dog with problems is like then spend the day with lexi lol you will both go home glad to have your boy  

bump up his walks spend few time befor u go out teching him a new trick play some classical music (can work) play fetch in the hall way ect ect there are lots of good people on her who can offer good advice im sure in this time next year youl be wondering how you ever considerd it


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Werehorse said:


> What did he do in the crate that makes you say he didn't get on with it?
> 
> If it's a choice between him putting up with the crate until he can "graduate" from it or going into rescue I certainly think the crate is preferable...
> 
> It is highly unfair of your OH to deliver an ultimatum like that.


You would honestly be happy crating your dog for up to 8 or nine hours a day? Every day?

People are talking about dogs ripping up floors and destroying doors as though it's a stage they're going through. It's not. They're telling you something. They're unhappy.

If you haven't the time to dedicate to your dog you'll run into problems, and Basil really doesn't seem to be a happy boy.

But, only you know whether you are doing right for him. Good luck.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

I have been off work sick for a very long time with no look to getting any better when we got Basil. Hes had me to himself all day everyday since he was 14 weeks until he was just over a year so im not really surprised he is struggling to adapt.

I dont really appreciate the slurs on my OH. I agree that he may be a bit unprepared for what life with a young dog may entail but he cares a lot for me and all of our pets. None of them have ever really been "his" but came with me as a package and he has done nothing but accept that and help to provide for all of their care. We (he) has just spent a lot of vet care for the cat we lost a week ago and has never asked for a penny from me towards it. He works very very hard for the very very little that we have and is fairly frustrated and annoyed that our newly decorated flat that we scrimped and saved for is being trashed by our dog. I can understand his feelings on this totally and although i dont agree with how he wants to solve it i respect the feelings that he has on the matter. He doesnt want to rehome the dog really but he most definately doesnt have my patience or canine knowledge (which im not proclaiming to be vast!  ) and was not prepared for the chaos and destruction an adolescent dog would bring!

Mollysmith: I know i shouldnt compare, they are individually different dogs with VERY different upbringings, different breeds and different sexes but i think its natural to make comparisions. I cant help it either, before i know it something has popped into my head! I will look into some company for Basil during the day but we have only just moved to this area recently and dont really know anyone that would be capable of controlling him as most we know are elderly or frail in some way


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I love the idea BUT wouldn't be hugely happy handing my house keys to just anyone personally.


And also her dog I know but if she has no money and no way of seeming to fix this without giving up Basil or her job so he has care then maybe she needs to get out there and ask in person. Check refs and try to negotiate something? Exchange of skills was the other suggestion I made.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> OH has calmed (slightly) now and is saying that if he touches any big things (sofa, bed etc) then hes out. I dont agree with him at all and have tried to explain that he is going through a phase and is bored but that doesnt matter to him.


My heart always sinks when I hear of OHs like this 

If he knows how much you love Basil (which I'm sure he does), and if he truly loves you, he wouldn't ask you to give him up 

What will he ask you to give up next? It is a very slippery slope...

I know for certain if my husband forced me to get rid of the dogs, then he'd be out the door before he could finish getting his words out - forty years of marriage would count for nothing if he put me in that situation. It's not something you ask of someone you supposedly love - to give up something they love more than words.

If you _want_ to make this work, you _can_. But 8 until 6, with a break in the middle, is horrific for any dog, never mind a young working breed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but this should have all been considered before taking on Basil, or taking on new work commitments.

I wish you luck, and I hope I do not come across as overly harsh, but I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how dire the rescue situation is at the moment - and a dog behaving like Basil is presently, would not be chosen over one with no issues.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> And also her dog I know but if she has no money and no way of seeming to fix this without giving up Basil or her job so he has care then maybe she needs to get out there and ask in person. Check refs and try to negotiate something? Exchange of skills was the other suggestion I made.


I like the idea; was just throwing another consideration in.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

How about making a pull toy attached to something for him to pull on.

I dont know how but i remember someone having a very bored dog leaving him with something like this.

Is there no family near who could pop in. He probably just wants some company.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> I have been off work sick for a very long time with no look to getting any better when we got Basil. Hes had me to himself all day everyday since he was 14 weeks until he was just over a year so im not really surprised he is struggling to adapt.
> 
> I dont really appreciate the slurs on my OH. I agree that he may be a bit unprepared for what life with a young dog may entail but he cares a lot for me and all of our pets. None of them have ever really been "his" but came with me as a package and he has done nothing but accept that and help to provide for all of their care. We (he) has just spent a lot of vet care for the cat we lost a week ago and has never asked for a penny from me towards it. He works very very hard for the very very little that we have and is fairly frustrated and annoyed that our newly decorated flat that we scrimped and saved for is being trashed by our dog. I can understand his feelings on this totally and although i dont agree with how he wants to solve it i respect the feelings that he has on the matter. He doesnt want to rehome the dog really but he most definately doesnt have my patience or canine knowledge (which im not proclaiming to be vast!  ) and was not prepared for the chaos and destruction an adolescent dog would bring!
> 
> Mollysmith: I know i shouldnt compare, they are individually different dogs with VERY different upbringings, different breeds and different sexes but i think its natural to make comparisions. I cant help it either, before i know it something has popped into my head! I will look into some company for Basil during the day but we have only just moved to this area recently and dont really know anyone that would be capable of controlling him as most we know are elderly or frail in some way


Apologies if I have upset you but to be fair you were not painting him in a good way in my view and I only have your comments to go on. Clearly not knowing him I only gain this impression from the thread.

I realise it's hard to separate dogs from each other when you've had one that's good but I just feel you have to be in the present to sort out Basil. I wish you all well especially Basil, take care


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> I have been off work sick for a very long time with no look to getting any better when we got Basil. Hes had me to himself all day everyday since he was 14 weeks until he was just over a year so im not really surprised he is struggling to adapt.
> 
> I dont really appreciate the slurs on my OH. I agree that he may be a bit unprepared for what life with a young dog may entail but he cares a lot for me and all of our pets. None of them have ever really been "his" but came with me as a package and he has done nothing but accept that and help to provide for all of their care. We (he) has just spent a lot of vet care for the cat we lost a week ago and has never asked for a penny from me towards it. He works very very hard for the very very little that we have and is fairly frustrated and annoyed that our newly decorated flat that we scrimped and saved for is being trashed by our dog. I can understand his feelings on this totally and although i dont agree with how he wants to solve it i respect the feelings that he has on the matter. He doesnt want to rehome the dog really but he most definately doesnt have my patience or canine knowledge (which im not proclaiming to be vast!  ) and was not prepared for the chaos and destruction an adolescent dog would bring!


I really agree with you. I hate that people on here are so critical of other people's OHs. Why should he be happy to have his house trashed. He made a mistake getting you the dog and between you you have to sort out whether you want to change the way you keep the dog or rehome him. It is not fair to keep him as he is at the moment and I am sure your OH can see this too.


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## Freddie and frank (Mar 26, 2012)

If you're close to me I would help you out.seriously.
I'm at home most days.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't think the destruction is the problem, I think its a combination of his age and the sudden change to you being gone in the daytime five days a week.

Milo was hopeless when we got him at 16 months. He couldn't even stand in the same spot for more than three seconds. I ended up tethering him to me so he just learnt not to move all the bloody time because he was driving everyone and everything potty. He will quite happily sleep for 10 hours a day and all night, waking only for walkies, din dins and play time, but no way was he like that when he was younger (he is three now).

Not seen you say how long you are out for, just that someone else said 10 hours. I guess you need to weigh it up on that front. Is it going to be like this forever or is there a chance the situ will change, ie. are you going to move again where work may be closer etc.

I'm a student and mine get left 8.30-6pm one weekday every other week, someone comes in for an hour at lunch. Then I break up for Xmas for 6 weeks then it will be similar for 12 weeks, then I break up May-Sept for summer etc and only ever work 15 hours over four days a week. I will work full time at some point (bloody hope so anyway), and my idea for mine is that they will go to some form of daycare or dog sitter twice a week, but basically only have an 8-6 type day twice a week between that (with someone home at lunchtime). I hope this to be worst case situ, and the dogs will be 5 and 6 years old then so not pups. Currently my OH can work as and when he likes, ie. he can work 5am-2pm or whatever so there could be even more flexibility. 

I think you need to look at long term for sure, if you can't make it work in the long term I don't know how fair it is on any of you to drag it out further now. I think it most likely is boredom, I am 99% sure of that, but even if you attempt to address the issue, being out as long as you are could well be the issue and that's not really something most people can afford to rectify.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> You would honestly be happy crating your dog for up to 8 or nine hours a day? Every day?
> 
> People are talking about dogs ripping up floors and destroying doors as though it's a stage they're going through. It's not. They're telling you something. They're unhappy.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree , dogs can and do grow out of it , it can be a phase! Yes he may be doing it because his unhappy , bored or just for the fun of it. Like kids drawing on the wall they know it's wrong there not doing it because they are unhappy they are doing it because its fun 

I won't ever comment on OH's as mine is not supportive of the dogs at all


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

I would put ad out and vet people. My groomer looks after ebony when I'm at work. She charges me £12 a day... Wouldn't be without it. Could you increase the walk in the morning and increase the evening walk too? 

Sadly, you have to do what is right for basil... And maybe another home with a family who have time for him would be better on him in the long run


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

GermanShepardOwner said:


> This can be fixed, i know its annoying and frustrating but a dog can not ruin your house if you give him nothing to wreck.


But how do you give them nothing to wreck? I locked Rupert in an empty room and he chewed the walls, floor, door frame, windowsill and skirting boards. My ex refused to use a crate, said they were cruel and wouldn't even consider it despite the damage Rupe caused.

Once I moved out I crate trained which stopped the destruction but it was management, we never actually solved the problem.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

I feel for you - it's not an easy situation. I also sympathise with you over your OH. I don't think it makes him a monster to want to rehome - my OH wanted to at one point as due to our dogs issues and I understand that end of your tether feeling. Rehoming may not be as simple as you want it to be though. Rescues are having a hard time shifting puppies, let alone an adolescent dog with destructive behaviour. Would you be happy for him to sit in kennels or go to a stranger from the internet, not that these homes can't be wonderful (several people on here are those homes!) but the risk is higher.

What is his behaviour like when you are home? Is he a Velcro dog or happy to be apart from you? Velcro dog suggests the behaviour is SA but happy to be alone seems to more suggests boredom.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

I wish cooper "only" trashed the house  
I know how you feel about things getting trashed, Cooper has just been digging puddles in the garden, came in got the zoomies in the living room, then jumped all over my daughters uniform that was on the sofa waiting to be ironed, my gf is NOT HAPPY :yikes:

For what its worth, our Lab used to trash our house as a youngster, i mean he REALLY trashed it, he ate chunks from walls, carpet,bits of the staircase, skirting boards. We too have had different circumstances since living here and at one point we were both full time, so he would be left long hrs occasionally...BUT it did get better, with age he remained a nutter but his destructive chewing pretty much stopped. It is something that can be worked out, i managed and im useless with dogs.

Good luck with what you decide to do


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

leannelatty;
I dont really appreciate the slurs on my OH. I agree that he may be a bit unprepared for what life with a young dog may entail but he cares a lot for me and all of our pets. None of them have ever really been "his" but came with me as a package and he has done nothing but accept that and help to provide for all of their care. We (he) has just spent a lot of vet care for the cat we lost a week ago and has never asked for a penny from me towards it. He works very very hard for the very very little that we have and is fairly frustrated and annoyed that our newly decorated flat that we scrimped and saved for is being trashed by our dog. I can understand his feelings on this totally and although i dont agree with how he wants to solve it i respect the feelings that he has on the matter. He doesnt want to rehome the dog really but he most definately doesnt have my patience or canine knowledge (which im not proclaiming to be vast! ;) ) and was not prepared for the chaos and destruction an adolescent dog would bring!
[/QUOTE said:


> Leanne, my OH didn't like dogs at all. The only dog of mine he's liked is Bess. When he met me I had a two year old English Setter whonwas fairly well behaved and he tolerated. I then got a Great Dane who was a nightmare. We got a Cocker Spaniel who he didn't like as he bullied the GD (offended his sense of fairness I think). Then when the GD died we had two years of living with an exceptionally well behaved dog. When he died there was never any question that I would get another dog.
> 
> If my OH wants me he accepts that I'm a dog person. And that includes coming for walks in the rain, and having our life disrupted as we've got to get back for the dog. That's how we're in our 25th year of marriage.
> 
> ...


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## PinkEars (Jun 4, 2010)

I have been lucky with Walt in that he took to his crate from an early age I have tried to keep him out of it recently and he ended up chewing the wood on the door so he is back in it! 

Does your dog walker walk him on his own or in groups? My dog walker walks in groups which some people dislike but I actually prefer it for Walt! He gets much more stimulation and fun during his hour walk! I have found recently that he wasn't so keen on going in his crate as was being left for about 5 hours before someone could come in but because she is walking in groups she is not quite in such a tight schedule so I give her a couple of extra pounds and she basically keeps him with her for longer! Not necessarily walking but she will keep him company for longer taking him to pick up the other dogs etc! This seems to have done the trick and he has settled again in his crate! This is not every day and he is a very sleepy dog but I genuinely think at the moment with your dog being so young it will take him a while to grow out of it he just needs more company! That's my only suggestion!


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> I dont really appreciate the slurs on my OH. I agree that he may be a bit unprepared for what life with a young dog may entail but he cares a lot for me and all of our pets. None of them have ever really been "his" but came with me as a package and he has done nothing but accept that and help to provide for all of their care. We (he) has just spent a lot of vet care for the cat we lost a week ago and has never asked for a penny from me towards it. He works very very hard for the very very little that we have and is fairly frustrated and annoyed that our newly decorated flat that we scrimped and saved for is being trashed by our dog. I can understand his feelings on this totally and although i dont agree with how he wants to solve it i respect the feelings that he has on the matter. He doesnt want to rehome the dog really but he most definately doesnt have my patience or canine knowledge (which im not proclaiming to be vast!  ) and was not prepared for the chaos and destruction an adolescent dog would bring!


i think what you will have to accept is some of us dont have men in our lives so it would be very easy for some of us to say 'get rid of other half'
when bringing any young dog into a household you have to be fully prepared for everything and sometimes along the way destructive behaviour happens and half the time most of us are never prepared for that and the trails of mess left behind 
i dont think anything fully prepares you seeing your house pulled completely apart by your four legged friend what you do have to do is accept that its happening and sort out the reason/s why its happening. most of the time its usually an under-stimulated dog thats left alone all day OR a dog with acute seperation anxiety , both of which can be sorted out one thing there never is though is a quick fix.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Pointermum said:


> I have to disagree , dogs can and do grow out of it , it can be a phase! Yes he may be doing it because his unhappy , bored or just for the fun of it. *Like kids drawing on the wall they know it's wrong there not doing it because they are unhappy they are doing it because its fun *
> I won't ever comment on OH's as mine is not supportive of the dogs at all


I'm hoping you really don't believe this.

The main reason I have fallen in love with my dog is because of his innocence, his lack of malice and his desire to please.

If I came home and he'd eaten the floorboards or door I'd be distraught. I'd wonder what I'd done wrong. But he gets four hours of walking, running, tracking, scenting, playing, training, swimming and tummy rubs every day. And he's sleeping contentedly by my side right now (Hogging the fire again)

They don't do eating floorboards and doors for fun.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

They do go through another chewing phase at around this age do they not? Something to do with adult teeth settling into the jaw?

Destroying stuff could be a symptom of SA or of "boredom" or it could just be that he has learned that he finds chewing contraband goods really rewarding. So he does it. It doesn't even mean he's unhappy or stressed, not necessarily. Could be that he just enjoys chewing the stuff he has access to and hasn't managed to learn the difference between dog stuff and non-dog stuff.

I'm sure you can work through it, and manage the behaviour in the mean time. It seems such a shame to given up a dog you love. And another worry is the effect it could have on your relationship if you resent giving him up/feel as if you were made to give him up - even if those feelings only materialise in the future.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm hoping you really don't believe this.
> 
> The main reason I have fallen in love with my dog is because of his innocence, his lack of malice and his desire to please.
> 
> ...


Have you had much experience of retrievers, if any 

This is why my dog gets raw bones and stag bars and kongs. Because he likes to chew. He doesn't give a monkeys if its a shoe or a bone, its chewable and feels good. I believe the action of the jaw actually releases some sort of endorphin which relaxes them which is why some anxious dogs do chew.

My dog doesn't wreck the house because he now knows what things are his and what isn't. Its not that he was unhappy as an adolescent and is now happy. I'd say he's a lot worse now tbh if anything.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm hoping you really don't believe this.
> 
> The main reason I have fallen in love with my dog is because of his innocence, his lack of malice and his desire to please.
> 
> ...


Do you honestly think dogs don't have fun , chewing things , tugging at things then your crazy  All the dog toy companies should close down this very minute !

I never said it was in malice


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

To be fair to the little monster as well, he had undiagnosed mange for what must have been 80% of his life so far. Now he is doing better but it has only been a couple months. So they've fixed that, moved house, and Leanne has got herself a full time job. Plus he is still a young dog. Its a lot of change. When I moved house Rupert completely flipped and barked constantly when I left etc, got better for two weeks then was horrendous again. Basil is a very loved little dog I think its just an awful lot of *stuff* in a short space of time that needs ironing out whilst figuring out if the current situ is able to be made workable or not. I don't think its my place to say what is right and wrong re working fulltime, its up to the individual what they think is fair and I don't think its the being left for X which can be the sole reason for all the issues.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm hoping you really don't believe this.
> 
> The main reason I have fallen in love with my dog is because of his innocence, his lack of malice and his desire to please.
> 
> ...


Some dogs just like to chew and it doesn't matter how much exercise you give them, how much mental stimulation they get or how little they're left they still chew stuff. Rupert preferred the wooden things (floorboards, skirting boards, windowsills, door frames, doors) to anything else and learned that he could have a damn good chew on them when nobody was there to stop him while if he tried it while we were around he got stopped. It was an enjoyable activity for him.

Spencer is left just a couple of hours twice a week, gets plenty of exercise and mental stimulation yet still likes a good chew on his stag bar several evenings a week. He'll also shred books, magazines, cardboard boxes and tissues given the chance.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm hoping you really don't believe this.
> 
> The main reason I have fallen in love with my dog is because of his innocence, his lack of malice and his desire to please.
> 
> ...


Tell that to my lab!! She isn't happy unless she has something in her mouth, it soesn't matter if its a toy a ball a shoe, a random bottle round on the walk or my door frame she likes having things in her mouth and if she was not crated she would chew.

I 2nd what GS said, the disruption and everything that has changed in his life recently will have an impact on him. When we moved house Lexi went through a period of been terrified of the dark, we had toileting in the house, distructive behaviour totally OTT completely out of control. It lasted 6 weeks (6 really bad weeks) and then she started to improve.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

If basil has people with him does he still chew things? like i know cooper will as reg has said he comes in from the garden and he's chewed out there etc.

Also if he's left for an hour or two will he chew the walls etc? 

I think time may be a big issue here especially for such a young dog,


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Pointermum said:


> Do you honestly think dogs don't have fun , chewing things , tugging at things then your crazy  *All the dog toy companies should close down this very minute *!
> 
> I never said it was in malice


Kongs etc are a marketing con for people unable to satisfy the true needs of their dog. The times I've heard this recommended as the panacea to a dog's boredom problems on this forum is quite remarkable.

I'll tell you a good game (If you can be bothered teach it.) Get your dog to understand hand signals (left, right, away, closer etc) chuck a marked stick away without Fido knowing where it landed and work as a team to locate it. It's simple to get your dog interested in this game and you'll be building a bond you never knew possible.

Add to this tracking, seek back excercises, searching for items under water, searching for stuff up in tree branches, frisbee and...... and you'll have a dog with no energy or inclination to chew the house apart for "fun."

My 20 month old Border Collie can do all this stuff, and my house, my slippers, my walls, my floorboards are totally unmarked.

Maybe I was lucky and just got a goodun.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> Kongs etc are a marketing con for people unable to satisfy the true needs of their dog. The times I've heard this recommended as the panacea to a dog's boredom problems on this forum is quite remarkable.
> 
> I'll tell you a good game (If you can be bothered teach it.) Get your dog to understand hand signals (left, right, away, closer etc) chuck a marked stick away without Fido knowing where it landed and work as a team to locate it. It's simple to get your dog interested in this game and you'll be building a bond you never knew possible.
> 
> ...


Wow, talk about judgemental towards those who have dogs who are/have been destructive. YOUR dog may have no inclination to chew. YOUR dog may enjoy those things and find them mentally and physically stimulating. YOUR dog may be happy to chill out and relax doing nothing. Not all dogs are the same.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Kongs etc are a marketing con for people unable to satisfy the true needs of their dog. The times I've heard this recommended as the panacea to a dog's boredom problems on this forum is quite remarkable.
> 
> I'll tell you a good game (If you can be bothered teach it.) Get your dog to understand hand signals (left, right, away, closer etc) chuck a marked stick away without Fido knowing where it landed and work as a team to locate it. It's simple to get your dog interested in this game and you'll be building a bond you never knew possible.
> 
> ...


Ok now we've just established you know very little about k9's and sadly I'm going to have to disregard at least all of your posts on this thread because you really are that far off the mark.

You're saying anyone who had a dog that chews anything is miserable, which is not only ******** but probably quite offensive to a lot of people. Raw bones must be a marketing con also. Maybe we should sue them trees for dropping sticks that we throw for our dogs because no happy dog would repeatedly run after a lifeless stick. Not if it was a happy dog. Sticks shouldn't exist either.

You know what. Screw dog walking. My presence is that amazing it makes my dog happy. He doesn't need food OR walks, just breathing the same air as me gives him fulfillment in life. If anyone's dog is different they have a baddun or are a crap owner.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I think some dogs chew more than others. Neither of mine have ever chewed or destroyed anything other than dog toys (and a small nibble from a side table) and I know for a fact that isn't because I'm a fantastic trainer! I hope you get it sorted.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I would hate to be in this position and I really hope you find something to work for you.

I can understand your other half, I wouldnt be pleased with my dog destroying my belongings.

Sophie has chewed things but only when they were left in her reach and the list is short. 

Sophie loves her stag bar and its the trick that worked for her, shell lay there happily for hours chewing on it, she loves the marrow in it.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I googled secondary chewing phase in dogs and found this.



> Sometime between 9 and 12 months, your puppy will go through a second chewing phase as the bite settles. Unfortunately, this phase is not well known by the public. Many dogs are given up to various rescue organizations during this time because the owners are convince their dog has "gone bad." You will do well to revert to a picked up house, give good chewing toys, and not let your dog have the run of the house.


Also, in a back issue of your dog magazine, I read that gundogs suffer with this the worst.

Did you see where I put in a previous post to try large raw meaty bones so he can do some serious chewing without wrecking the house?


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Kongs etc are a marketing con for people unable to satisfy the true needs of their dog. The times I've heard this recommended as the panacea to a dog's boredom problems on this forum is quite remarkable.
> 
> I'll tell you a good game (If you can be bothered teach it.) Get your dog to understand hand signals (left, right, away, closer etc) chuck a marked stick away without Fido knowing where it landed and work as a team to locate it. It's simple to get your dog interested in this game and you'll be building a bond you never knew possible.
> 
> ...


You obviously have no understanding of breeds that are prone to chewing and destructive behaviour like many gundog breeds are. You are naive if you assume that a dog only behaves in such a way because it is bored and under stimulated. Many dogs chew because they find it pleasurable.

I agree in the OP's situation the dog is most likely behaving the way it is because it is bored and understimulated. Labradors like most gundog breeds are people dogs and spending the majority of the day alone with no company is quite torturous for them.

Advising four hours of exercise and activities such as frisbee for a growing Labrador is downright dangerous advice. Unless of course they want their dog growing up to be crippled from inappropriate over exercise.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

metaldog said:


> I googled secondary chewing phase in dogs and found this.
> 
> Also, in a back issue of your dog magazine, I read that gundogs suffer with this the worst.
> 
> Did you see where I put in a previous post to try large raw meaty bones so he can do some serious chewing without wrecking the house?


could you leave him with those unsupervised?


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> could you leave him with those unsupervised?


Yes. I left Bizkit with one every day for 6 months until he had set his teeth in his jaws


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Yes. I left Bizkit with one every day for 6 months until he had set his teeth in his jaws


I thought they had to be watched with bones etc.

I think zylkene or the like is really worth a try and also just asking some relatives or friends if they want to sit in with him (not walk if he is too boisterous) as he may need a bit of companionship.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I thought they had to be watched with bones etc.


Guess it depends on the dog. I'd have left Rupert with a large meaty bone over a Kong any day. Spen I'll leave alone with a Kong but not a bone.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I really don't think it is fair to say Basil is chewing because he is unhappy  he is a young dog who has had a large change in his life... I think this is expected, and that it should pass. I know a dog who gets plenty exercise, and human company, yet he will often chew when he is left... and he is only left for an hour or two MAX, I think he just enjoys it. 

If I were going through this with my dog, I would crate him. I know people don't think it is fair to crate a dog for that long, and I don't think it is ideal, however I think it is 1. a better solution short term than rehoming, and 2. it is safer for him. I do think this is most probably a phase, both with his age and the adjustment of you working, and therefore I don't think you would need to crate permanently, just for the short term. I also believe that if dogs are 'allowed' to chew things they aren't supposed to, that it can become habit and so they continue it on, even when the 'phase' has past. I might have just been lucky with my two, but neither have shown the slightest inclination to chew something that they weren't meant to, and both were crate trained as puppies, and were never given the opportunity to chew those things that they are not supposed to. 

I know crate training didn't go well, but if he isn't used to one, then it will take time for him to adjust. Even without the chewing issue, I think it is a good thing for all dogs to be familiar with, because you never know what other situations may come up that may need the use of a crate. 

I also see your OHs side... while it isn't fair on you, I can see his frustration at seeing his property destroyed, but he should work with you to solve these issues. I hope you can get everything sorted out.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I thought they had to be watched with bones etc.
> 
> I think zylkene or the like is really worth a try and also just asking some relatives or friends if they want to sit in with him (not walk if he is too boisterous) as he may need a bit of companionship.


Mine eat bones every day, I seldom watch them, I usually go in the bath at dinnertime. We never have any problems. I think the risk of choking or injury chewing up the house is much greater than chewing on a bone


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

OP - Sorry to read this thread, sounds like you and Basil really aren't having a good time at the moment. Sadly I do tend to agree with the majority of posters on here in as much as it sounds like typical bored, lonely young Lab behaviour. Scooter was much the same!

Do you have any friends, neighbours or family members who would be willing to dogsit him, even for half a day? Even some fuss or a play in the garden would help if they're unable to walk him.

I'm sorry if I've missed this but how much could you possibly confine him if door-opening was not an issue? To a room or two? The hallway? Could be difficult if you have an open-plan house but I'd advise deciding on where he could be left and replacing the localised doorhandles with doorknobs - unless he's got thumbs that will remove the oppurtunity to detroy "big things", although wall/door frame eating is a possibility; depends on how strongly motivated he is to chew.



leannelatty said:


> He hasnt just destroyed his bed and a pillow, hes also pulled up all the floor in the bathroom and the bedroom and chewed half the doorframe off in the bathroom too.
> 
> Weve put some hooks on the doors tonight to try and stop him getting through the doors. I dont have a garden that we could put a run in and i dont have anyone that i could take him to during the day. Hes left with a full feeding ball in the mornings with his breakfast in it and a frozen kong and a stag bar and then the dog walker gives him another frozen kong and more biscuits o=in his ball when she leaves him after his walk.


Our house looked horrendous until Scooter was about 3 - fortunately we were able to restrict him to the hallway but still had 2 bits of floor VERY much chewed up (both while everyone was home so more an attention thing), chunks out of doorframes (after learning he couldn't operate the doorknobs!), 2 beds eaten and teeth marks on most of the furniture, plus countless small destructions. Most damage was done when we were with him, he was a brat. Again, typical young Lab behaviour! We didn't replace ANY damaged items until he was WELL past his chewing phase.
Most of Breeze's teeth are missing/broken/worn from chewing in kennels before we got her - she has SA, Scooter wanted attention.

Props to you for doing the best you can with your situation, shame the same can't be said for all owners of destructive dogs.



samuelsmiles said:


> Kongs etc are a marketing con for people unable to satisfy the true needs of their dog. The times I've heard this recommended as the panacea to a dog's boredom problems on this forum is quite remarkable.
> 
> I'll tell you a good game (If you can be bothered teach it.) Get your dog to understand hand signals (left, right, away, closer etc) chuck a marked stick away without Fido knowing where it landed and work as a team to locate it. It's simple to get your dog interested in this game and you'll be building a bond you never knew possible.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you didn't just get a "goodun", you got a Border Collie! I've not known any who've enjoyed more than a casual gnaw on a bone or toy, they just don't seem that inclined to use their mouths. Think about what Retrievers are bred for and compare to BCs - one type uses their mouth to work hence selection for that trait, the other does not. I'm sure there are plenty of chewy Collies about, but I'd be surprised to meet a Lab that doesn't chew/carry objects to some degree.
Our BC didn't chew anything except rawhide and bones - she had a wicker basket from when she was a pup until the day she died. Not a mark on it.



fluffybunny2001 said:


> depending on where you rehome him,if he goes to a rescue the behaviour will get worse as there are so many dogs needing help,and a kennel environment is not the place to solve this
> also alot of rescues won`t deal with this behaviour fullstop.


Have to end on a grim note and say I agree with this - kennels are not a good place for dogs to stay long term and the stress levels in rehoming/rescue kennels is far higher than boarding kennels IME. Even the best centres can only give each dog a small amount of time a day, far less than in any home environment so assuming boredom and loneliness are the cause then he would be worse off in rescue.
I second goodvic's comment about you (or an official fosterer) caring for him if the worst should come to the worst. Kennels will inevitably escalate the destruction and consequently he may run the risk of being returned for it.

Best wishes, and sorry for the mammoth post


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

WeimyLady said:


> *You obviously have no understanding of breeds that are prone to chewing and destructive behaviour like many gundog breeds are*. You are naive if you assume that a dog only behaves in such a way because it is bored and under stimulated. Many dogs chew because they find it pleasurable.
> 
> I agree in the OP's situation the dog is most likely behaving the way it is because it is bored and understimulated. Labradors like most gundog breeds are people dogs and spending the majority of the day alone with no company is quite torturous for them.
> 
> ...


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

metaldog said:


> Mine eat bones every day, I seldom watch them, I usually go in the bath at dinnertime. We never have any problems. I think the risk of choking or injury chewing up the house is much greater than chewing on a bone


That's a really good point. I was looking at the bone idea and thinking "should he be left with a bone" too - but if it stops him destroying and swallowing stuff like floorboards, pillows and electric cables then the bone is the safer option by far I imagine!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Mine eat bones every day, I seldom watch them, I usually go in the bath at dinnertime. We never have any problems. I think the risk of choking or injury chewing up the house is much greater than chewing on a bone


Thats true!!!!

I was thinking in general but forgot about the actual problem! Silly!


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> But, tell me, weren't gundogs bred to have soft mouths? (As were Retriever type dogs?) Why would they have a predisposition to chew when this would be an undesirable trait in this type of dog?


Yes they were, and when they want to carry something carefully they blooming well will, but when they want to chew something they really go to town. It's the mouth-orientated matter again - they have a strong urge to use it for something, be that delicately retrieving a pheasant or ripping up a lino.

Using my little Lab as an example again, she will carry tiny objects carefully when asked to or when the fancy strikes, like a single pea (holds it between her gums and tongue!). This is the same dog who demolished the hatch, part of a door, plastic beds, vet bed and bent loose wire mesh with her teeth to form an escapable hole while in kennels. She still chews - bones and her kong only these days.

(The two BCs she was kennelled with during her great escape failed to spot both the loose wire and the escape hole she formed )


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

Sorry to hear your having such a hard time Leanne. Iv been there and its hard. Stick at it though, hes just a baby still and im sure he will grow out of it. 

If it were me i would be telling OH he is on his last strike for suggesting such a ridiculous thing.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but I think unless you can get a great deal more care for him he would be better off in another home. While some dogs may adapt to it, being left for 10 hours a day with a break of one walk is not the right sort of care for a dog, particularly a breed like a labrador that is a sociable/people breed. The most common reason for labs coming into rescue is because they cannot cope with being left in homes where they are left all day. I appreciate people can and do make full time working and dog ownership work, but in reality it is down to the dog and the care they put in place, but I do wish people would think harder about getting a dog when they work full time - it too often ends with the dog being rehomed because it cannot cope with being left so long.

There are plenty of labrador rescues so you should find one that covers your area. They are generally run by labrador enthusiasts and have a better understanding of the kind of home he would require. They may well have a waiting list of people wanting a labrador and will only rehome to a home that would suit his needs, and if possible would prefer him to remain with you until a new home is found or will put him in a foster home if you cannot keep him.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2012)

Pfft... my crew thinks anything that involves shredding, destroying, digging, ripping, chewing etc. is the bees knees. Weve lost countless dog beds, shoes, books, floorboards, yes, walls, etc. to the dane destruction. Theyre not at all unhappy, believe me, theyre just PITA pups who take a LONG time to grow up! Our last dane pup used to fall asleep chewing on the sheetrock on the wall where her bed was. Booger. 

Thats what puppies do, they destroy things. Its in their job description. 

This sounds like such a frustrating and tricky situation. Im grateful that my OH is used to dogs and we just kind of laugh off the destruction, roll up a newspaper nice and tight and smack ourselves over the head for not keeping a closer eye out. Crates are awesome, exercise is awesome, brain games are awesome, kongs are awesome, deer antlers are awesome... You just have to find what works for your dog. Some need to be confined, others need free roam, others need a companion... (We had a chessie mix years ago who was SA central until we got another dog. SA disappeared overnight.) Sometimes you just have to wait for them to grow up *looks over at 3 and a half year old dane pup and glares*.

If the dog truly isnt a good fit, that happens too. Better for the dog to be in a home where there is less stress than to try to force a square peg in to a round hole. Some dog owner mixes just dont work out. It happens, its okay.

I hope things work out for you though. Sounds like you really dont want to have to rehome this guy


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## muz (Sep 17, 2012)

Don't know if you are still reading the replies to your thread, as there are so many. But here are some extra comments:

1. Was Basil bred from working parents? If you don't know and cannot tell from his pedigree (if he has one), can you phone the breeder to find out? My two labs are totally different - one bred to be a pet, the other coming from a champion working line. The "pet" is very happy just being allowed to mooch around on walks and tires himself out. The "worker" needed to be occupied all the time on walks, in order for him to be tired in body and mind before he would relax at home. If you have a working youngster, you need to do more with him on his walks than you say you do. If you ask at your vet for info on training classes you should find something near you - classes do not have to be expensive. Not just obedience - agility, working trials etc can really work Basil's brain. (Bearing in mind that no young dog should ever jump until the growth plates have hardened up - but youngsters can still be taught the agility course and pop over poles laid on the ground)

2. For a short while I had to leave my 1 year old 'working' lab at home during the day and he trashed the place. I spoke to EVERY dog walker I met over the next week or so and found a lovely girl who offered to come and take my dog out with hers during the day. She did it as a favour, and no money changed hands - just a lot of chocolates!! We didn't just give her a key - we walked together a few times first, and she came round to the house to get to know us. A friendly local dog owner may well prove to be a life line for you at the moment.

3. If you ultimately decide that Basil and you are destined to part - PLEASE phone Basil's breeder before you do anything else. They may well be able to find a good home for him - or take him back themselves.

Good luck.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2012)

Important someone tell you/show you good and bad dog bones. Some can be more dangerous than others. MOST dogs that get into trouble, are those who rarely get them and gobble and gulp in excitement. If dogs get lots of bones, it is a far more casual affair, eating is seen as a leisurely activity, rather like the attitude to pipe smoking with men. A laid back slow enjoyment. No rush, no thrill, just a comfortable, slow chew.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

muz said:


> Don't know if you are still reading the replies to your thread, as there are so many. But here are some extra comments:
> 
> 1. Was Basil bred from working parents? If you don't know and cannot tell from his pedigree (if he has one), can you phone the breeder to find out? My two labs are totally different - one bred to be a pet, the other coming from a champion working line. The "pet" is very happy just being allowed to mooch around on walks and tires himself out. The "worker" needed to be occupied all the time on walks, in order for him to be tired in body and mind before he would relax at home. If you have a working youngster, you need to do more with him on his walks than you say you do. If you ask at your vet for info on training classes you should find something near you - classes do not have to be expensive. Not just obedience - agility, working trials etc can really work Basil's brain. (Bearing in mind that no young dog should ever jump until the growth plates have hardened up - but youngsters can still be taught the agility course and pop over poles laid on the ground)
> 
> ...


Hi guys, i am still readin the replies but have been too busy to reply. I have no idea what Basils heritage is as my OH naively bought him from a pet shop, we arent even convinced hes a full lab! I will speak tot he local dog owners i know but they are few and far between 

I will take everything that has been said on board, the last thing i want is to rehome him! We had a lovely time playing ball this morning and then some fun training when we got home and hes now asleep on the sofa until i put him the hallway when i go to work.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Just wondering did you leave him gradually? As in 1 hour one day, 1.5 hours the next few days, 2hrs the next week etc up to the amount of time he is currently left? Big jump for a dog to go from having you around 24/7 to having to spend 9 hours alone.

What about half days in doggy day care if they'll will pick him up and drop him back?

How did you crate train him? Although i think 9 hours in a crate is too long for any breed really.

Definitely second a decent sized raw bone..... can keep mine quiet for HOURS!!

Tis frustrating- mine ate a coffee table!!!!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't want to seem like i'm giving financial advice but if money is too tight for the dog walker to do an hour or daycare etc is there any way to cut down on maybe sky/cable tv and phone lines etc if you have mobiles, many have ditched having a landline phone now.

Just trying to help out as i know you wouldn't want to loose him.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't want to seem like i'm giving financial advice but if money is too tight for the dog walker to do an hour or daycare etc is there any way to cut down on maybe sky/cable tv and phone lines etc if you have mobiles, many have ditched having a landline phone now.
> 
> Just trying to help out as i know you wouldn't want to loose him.


I think it's very helpful to think about finances, but cancelling a phoneline would be £20 tops per month, and that wouldn't even get you 2 days in doggy daycare  Before getting any job I think realistically you should think about whether you can afford for someone else to care for your dog and budget that new cost into things, on minimum wage you'd get paid £50+ per day, a daycare or good dog walker would be about £15 of that.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I think it's very helpful to think about finances, but cancelling a phoneline would be £20 tops per month, and that wouldn't even get you 2 days in doggy daycare  Before getting any job I think realistically you should think about whether you can afford for someone else to care for your dog and budget that new cost into things, on minimum wage you'd get paid £50+ per day, a daycare or good dog walker would be about £15 of that.


Yeah, i thought that but i thought every little bit would help and maybe he could do half days there and then there would be no need for the dog walker either.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Do people that are short of money have sky  I could never justify spending money on stuff like that when I have animals to spend it on. We dont have holidays, sky, expensive mobile phone contracts etc. We have more money now than we ever had before but still could not consider doggy day care or whatever and when we were what I would call poor we could not have found an extra fiver a week for something - still had 3 well cared for dogs though.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Do people that are short of money have sky  I could never justify spending money on stuff like that when I have animals to spend it on. We dont have holidays, sky, expensive mobile phone contracts etc. We have more money now than we ever had before but still could not consider doggy day care or whatever and when we were what I would call poor we could not have found an extra fiver a week for something - still had 3 well cared for dogs though.


to be fair i don't know what leanne spends her money on i was just throwing out some ideas.

personally i would go without anything to keep my dog, have before too and our family have gone throuh many huge problems in the past and not once thought about rehoming a dog. They are ours and they stay with you.

I've never used a daycare either as there was always someone in the house with the dogs, the breeder woudn't let us ever have one without someone being home as roughs are, like many breeds very social and do not do well left alone.


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Do people that are short of money have sky  I could never justify spending money on stuff like that when I have animals to spend it on. We dont have holidays, sky, expensive mobile phone contracts etc. We have more money now than we ever had before but still could not consider doggy day care or whatever and when we were what I would call poor we could not have found an extra fiver a week for something - still had 3 well cared for dogs though.


It is hard and I know people are well meaning when they mention daycare, but it is expensive. Our household income is relatively ok, we're not millionaires but we're not on minimum wage. We'd find it very hard to pay for daycare each day and even a walk everyday was stretching us, hence why I negotiated working from home some days.

I really feel for you. I don't have enough experience to give you an answer. It's a big change for Basil to go from having you there 24/7 to being left all day.

Have you said where you are in the country? Sometimes the least expected people can be a saviour. My mother in law doesn't have a dog but she found herself dog sitting for lots of people, she's not too good with walking boisterous dogs but she is brilliant giving company and calms her daughter's lab like no one else can. She has had dogs in the past. It's just difficult finding that person.

I think someone else mentioned walking in a group. I know Zimba is far more tired when he's had a good play and romp with other dogs than if it's 'just' a walk.

I wish you the best, whatever your choice.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Thorne said:


> Yes they were, and when they want to carry something carefully they blooming well will, but when they want to chew something they really go to town.* It's the mouth-orientated matter again - they have a strong urge to use it for something, be that delicately retrieving a pheasant or ripping up a lino.*
> 
> Using my little Lab as an example again, she will carry tiny objects carefully when asked to or when the fancy strikes, like a single pea (holds it between her gums and tongue!). This is the same dog who demolished the hatch, part of a door, plastic beds, vet bed and bent loose wire mesh with her teeth to form an escapable hole while in kennels. She still chews - bones and her kong only these days.
> 
> (The two BCs she was kennelled with during her great escape failed to spot both the loose wire and the escape hole she formed )


Well, that's like a Border Collie owner telling a cyclist he's just rounded up - "It's ok, that's his job...can't do anything about that mate.......no sheep about so you had to do"

You've got to find something to redirect his focus, something that utilises his skills - what he was bred over centuries to do. We've been left with a legacy of amazing animals that can do amazing things if given the opportunity, however, their jobs have now been taken away and they're expected to be just pets - just be there and be lovely and cuddly and funny and fluffy.

If a dog eats the lino it's not good enough to say "that's what they do." That's letting the dog down.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> I understand its pretty standard damagee looked for a daycare near my wor *but the OH just wont have it!* I havent anything that i could use to film him. Ivk but there isnt one. I found one that may collect but its £21 per day and thats just not possible on our budget.


Can I ask bluntly: *how determined are you to keep this dog?*

If you are really committed, then you need to convey this to your OH.

If however you would be willing to lose your dog because your OH insists on it, then maybe best to find a loving new home for your dog *now* rather than put off the inevitable IF deep down you know it IS inevitable.

Because the bottom line here surely is: either it's 'love me, love my dog', or it isn't.

Me? I'd sooner dump the OH.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

When Xiva was a puppy, she ruined beds in her crate like they were going out of fashion!
She scraped the skirting boards where her crate was (not just scraped the paint off... there are gouges in the actual wood). She pulled the hoover cable into her crate (while it was plugged in!!) and chewed it up so that now the hoover needs the extension as the cable is only a meter long.
She ripped up the carpet and pulled all the underlay off when I tried her out of the crate. 
I saved for a 2nd hand plastic crate so she couldn't get things through it- she destroyed that too!!
She chewed the door frames in the back kitchen when I thought that was the place she could do less damage. 
She even chewed her own dog tag.
She chewed Anna's toy laptop, and destroyed a couple of her toys (OH leaving her unatended).


But at the end of the day, I LOVED that dog with all my heart. And when they grow up and get over the 2nd chewing/destruction stage... its just STUFF. Possessions that can be replaced. It might take a while to afford to replace it (we still have the scratched skirting boards and chewed door frames). I never ever thought of getting rid of her just because she ruined a few things. And god help my OH if he had suggested such a thing, I deffo would have got rid of him! My dogs are for life, the bad that comes with the good... it's not going to last forever.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Me? I'd sooner dump the OH.


He he  harsh! Yellow Lab. ( I prefer to keep mine but sometimes wonder why!)

Hard as it is this is a really good point, there is no point in going through more weeks/months of heartache (not for you, the dog or the OH) just to have to hand him over in the end anyway, I understand the stress this can put on a relationship, we are going through similar, for different reasons, but when he suggested we should get rid for the sake of my sanity, well my response was......:angry: :thumbdown: .... we need to work harder.

I haven't been around here long enough to know your history but it does sound a bit rich if he bought the dog without consulting you (nice surprise or not) to now say, oh I know you've bonded with it now but I want my house back to normal. As people have said, some dogs have wrecked their houses, walls and all, at least Basil seems to have only wrecked easily replaceable things (I think ).

If you can't/aren't willing to afford/find more daycare/walking, you need to find a way to dog proof his space and provide more stimulation both when you are there and when you aren't. There has been plenty of good advice given here to help in both those things, but remember its unlikely to be a quick fix and it will be hard work.

If you can't/aren't willing to do either, and this is aimed at a 'you' plural, as in both of you, (OH doesn't like the destruction, he should help out to sort it) then Yellow Lab is right unfortunately.

Hopefully you don't have to lose either.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Can I ask bluntly: *how determined are you to keep this dog?*
> 
> If you are really committed, then you need to convey this to your OH.
> 
> ...


I just hate this attitude. Most people have a dog to enrich their lives and if it is making life a misery instead and the dog and the owner is unhappy then surely it is the RESPONSIBLE thing to consider rehoming to someone that give the dog a more fullfilled life because their lifestyle matches the lifestyle that particular dog needs.
Surely it is nothing to do with choosing between the OH and the dog - that is horrible and hurtful to the OP. she has already asked that people do not make such comments.
Frankly if my husband had a strong view on a dog that was wrecking our home I would take his views into consideration. He has as many rights as I do.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Can I ask bluntly: *how determined are you to keep this dog?*
> 
> If you are really committed, then you need to convey this to your OH.
> 
> ...


I have to admit I have to bite my tongue (or fingers!) whenever I read on here that someone is thinking about rehoming their dog "because the OH has said so". It seems the days of him making all the decisions are not over after all.

My husband wanted to get rid of our retriever once - he just hinted - but my reaction shut him up for good. If anyone told me I had to get rid of my dogs, they would be out the door so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.

But, you cannot expect to have a high energy dog trapped in a small space and not have things torn up. Didn't you know all this when you got him? Sorry, but I haven't had time to read all of the thread, but it seems to me that all he has torn up is what you have left for him to tear up.

Ferdie munched his way through four dining chairs, an office chair, seven sky plus remotes, two mobile phones, a land phone, a leather three piece, and chewed a hole through the wall. And he wasn't alone all day most days.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I have to admit I am a little surprised by some quite harsh responses from some on this thread. Esp some of the OH comments - 

To those who have bothered to read all of the OP posts I think its quite obvious Leanne , Her OH and Basil are all very stressed at the moment and need help / support rather than repeatedly being told to send the dog to day care when the OP has said they cannot afford it or telling her to dump her OH - because 1/2ing the fmaily income will really help 

I think anyone who has followed the OP story knows that Basil is a very well loved family dog and deep down we all know nobody writes these types of threads on a public forum unless they are really fed up and need of help / support. 

What would maybe be helpful was if the OP or someone could start a thread on leaving dogs home / alone / boredom breakers where constructive comments / ideas and be shared as well as experiences which would allow her to share this with her OH. 

One good way of getting the OH to understand is to include them in discussions / show them which well urm isnt really possible with this thread.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

So your OH bought a puppy from a pet shop (puppy farmed no doubt) without you knowing? Now he says he's had enough of it's chewing because he's being left 10 hours a day (which is far too long for a dog to be left home alone). I'm sorry but he needs to grow up and take responsibility. He bought this dog and needs to understand that there is a commitment and responsibility towards a dog and it's needs. If you cannot meet those needs then do the right thing and find arehome him to a home that will and please don't get another dog until you can look after it's needs.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I have to admit I am a little surprised by some quite harsh responses from some on this thread. Esp some of the OH comments -
> 
> To those who have bothered to read all of the OP posts I think its quite obvious Leanne , Her OH and Basil are all very stressed at the moment and need help / support rather than repeatedly being told to send the dog to day care when the OP has said they cannot afford it or telling her to dump her OH - because 1/2ing the fmaily income will really help
> 
> ...


I suggested daycare as in my opinion i would never leave a dog 10 hours alone in a confined space.

I wouldn't leave it alone in the whole house for this amount of time either.
So i say daycare as clearly this is a bored dog who is showing he is.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

A lot of dogs when young go through phases where they chew up things.
Lucky chewed my OH's brand new mobile phone, shredded a lot of beds, chewed the laces and tongues off OH's expensive mountain boots and ripped up the back of the car costing over £100 for it to be repaired. 
She grew out of it though and crate training her was the best thing we ever did.

You will get through this stage with him, leaving a big juicy bone is a good idea.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Have you told us roughly what area you're in? Maybe someone here could help out or suggest something or someone that might help. There maybe someone who can't have their own dog for whatever reason but who'd love to spend some time with Basil while you're at work.


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

Just want to say I hope things work out for you, your OH and Basil.

I haven't had puppy problems for a looong time but with our rottie (a rescue) she had loads of issues at first; where we argued & cried & finally got a behaviourist in. We got it sorted (with lots of patience) and nearly 2 years later she's very settled.

I know this isn't your problem so a behaviourist really shouldn't be needed, as if I'm reading it correctly it's just adolescence. But I do understand how stressed you both must be. 

Just another suggestion - we used to use a girl from the vet's office to come let ours out in the day - they were trustworthy, loved dogs & were cheaper than most 'pros' - is there anyone like that at your vets? Or anyone they could recommend? 

Whatever you decide, I know it won't be a decision taken lightly. Good luck to you all.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I suggest daycare as in my opinion i would never leave a dog 10 hours alone in a confined space.
> 
> I wouldn't leave it alone in the whole house for this amount of time either.
> So i say daycare as clearly this is a bored dog who is showing he is.


BUT this is very much the norm for alot of dogs and theres likely thousands of dogs up and down the country who ar ehome alone during the day whilst both owners are at work. Not ideal - Definately not but in a time where jobs are hard ot come by and employers need more from their staff.

Im not denying Basil is not a bored dog definately not. And yes he definately needs more exercise / stimulation theres no doubt about that- it sup to the OP and their OH to work the best way of implementing this.

BUT I just felt some of the repeated bites at her OH specifically and saying to do something she has embarressing admitted to on a public forum she cant afford are not truely constructive to the issue which the OP, her OH and Basil face right now.

I know how hard it is to work and have a dog, I do the 5am walks, the walks in the rain / snow before and after work. I do the walks when I feel ill, when my feet hurt so much I can hardly walk after standing on a train for an hour and travel for hours extra to meetings aorund the country to avoid spending nights away from home- I revolve my whole life around Millie otuside and I do know and recognise the OP has to do more if this is going to work.

But I think a supportive approach from members would be more beneficial.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I suggest daycare as in my opinion i would never leave a dog 10 hours alone in a confined space.
> 
> I wouldn't leave it alone in the whole house for this amount of time either.
> So i say daycare as clearly this is a bored dog who is showing he is.


But if they can't afford daycare they can't afford it. It's not exactly cheap and the OP has already said funds are limited. I agree that 10 hours is too long to leave a dog crated on a daily basis even with a walk part way through but if day care isn't an option then other options need to be looked at.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> BUT this is very much the norm for alot of dogs and theres likely thousands of dogs up and down the country who ar ehome alone during the day whilst both owners are at work. Not ideal - Definately not but in a time where jobs are hard ot come by and employers need more from their staff.
> 
> Im not denying Basil is not a bored dog definately not. And yes he definately needs more exercise / stimulation theres no doubt about that- it sup to the OP and their OH to work the best way of implementing this.
> 
> ...


Oh i know and i never mentioned her partner.

I only mentioned daycare or something as I know of very few dogs who would be good left for this amount of time in a small area. None of mine have been destroyers but i know they wouldn't be happy in that set up, so i think he needs some company or entertainment in the day.

I do understand where people are coming from, not insulting her oh, although i haven't read any posts that have insulted him, but it is quite soon to think of rehoming to me.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> But if they can't afford daycare they can't afford it. It's not exactly cheap and the OP has already said funds are limited. I agree that 10 hours is too long to leave a dog crated on a daily basis even with a walk part way through but if day care isn't an option then other options need to be looked at.


Paid daycare, but there may be people willing to it with him in the day.

Maybe cut baks could mean a few half days there, maybe if 3 days a week he had the daycare the other days he would be more willing to rest and settle.

I don't know, I've never been there so just trying to suggest different things tbh.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've given her some helpful advice hopefully, I know I said I was annoyed about her OH but hopefully that might make him wake up about the situation a bit?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> Have you told us roughly what area you're in? Maybe someone here could help out or suggest something or someone that might help. There maybe someone who can't have their own dog for whatever reason but who'd love to spend some time with Basil while you're at work.


Leanne is in my area. I would say we know relatively well the PF members around here and sadly we aren't inundated. I am 20 mins away, but I have to put my own guys first. Rupert wouldn't do well with another Milo, although ironically Milo would. If we were a bit closer I feel like I could help out, but the distance is just a bit much. As an example, I was out 9.30-12 today, then at 3 I have to go to work. It's just not enough time to see to them all.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Just a thought, but it does not have to be a crate, it could be an indoor kennel and run area. Something like that could be made quite cheaply if OH is handy. Either a spare bedroom effectively with a mesh cage round the boundaries and even on the floor so there is absolutely nothing the dog can rip up, then fill it with acceptable chewable items - bones, kongs, even cardboard boxes if Basil enjoys ripping things up. Turn it into a lovely playroom for him.
If there is not a spare room then make a huge cage that can be dismantled easily and put it up each morning before you go out. You could even buy him an old armchair and put in it so he can rip that up if he wants to or sleep in it when he has finished ripping up everything else.
Before the days of crates people often built a huge indoor 'kennel' for their dog.
10 hours is still a long time to leave him and that issue has got to be addressed but at least he could not damage the house while you were working out a sensible approach.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't think I'm anywhere near this OP area otherwise I could help out for two days a week as I finish work at half past two in the afternoon.


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## xNatashax (Mar 1, 2010)

Leanne I completely understand where your coming from when I first had my alfie he wrecked everything we had a dog walker but he never walked him we then got a dog flap and he still continued to wreck everything chew, bite, scratch my ex OH was very close to getting rid of him (over my dead body) but since i've moved into my new place he is left on his own all day not a both doesnt destroy anything at all unless its left out and is as happy as anything I'm now going to be working longer hours so my neghibours have offered to come let him out in the day but your dog will grow out of it yeah 3-4 years old may be too long to wait but as they get older and specially if you walk him for 30-40mins before you go to work and have someone come in half way through the day its possible I have hook and eye locks on any of the doors he can get in leave out kongs, chews etc hopefully the situation will resolve itself


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Leanne is in my area. I would say we know relatively well the PF members around here and sadly we aren't inundated. I am 20 mins away, but I have to put my own guys first. Rupert wouldn't do well with another Milo, although ironically Milo would. If we were a bit closer I feel like I could help out, but the distance is just a bit much. As an example, I was out 9.30-12 today, then at 3 I have to go to work. It's just not enough time to see to them all.


That's understandable, just thought maybe there'd be someone who could help out or be able to suggest something  I've been unable to help out before because of Ruperts dog aggression. And now I can't help anyone out due to being in another country


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## HandsomeHound (Sep 1, 2012)

Leanne, I have been in the same position as you.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and looking back we should have given a lot more thought to getting a dog when we were both working. We ended up with an unhappy dog who suffered from separation anxiety and boredom. He turned in to a one dog demolition team, chewed up everything he could find, and even ripped up a brand new carpet the morning after it'd been laid. I know you have previously been home and are now working, so not quite the same.

We took him to what would now be called a behaviourist, who said we were giving him too much freedom in the house, and suggested confining him to a smaller space. 32 years ago, I knew nothing about crates or dog walkers/sitters or doggy day care.

As incurring extra costs is not an option, some of the suggestions made are really worth following up with regard to someone coming in to sit with him for a while or taking him out, in return for something you could do for them.

In the end, I thought about giving up work, and when I spoke to my employer and told them that it was getting to that point, they agreed to let me try taking him to work. I don't know what you do, or where you work, and this of course, may not be in the least bit possible for you, but as soon as he came with me every day, he was absolutely fine. He sat happily under my desk and was no trouble at all. We had a park next door to the office, so before work, and at lunchtime, I was able to take him out to exercise, and the rest of the time he was asleep, so they were happy to let it continue for as long as I worked there.

I know you will try and do whatever you can to keep him, and I wish you luck in finding a solution to your current situation, whatever you decide. My last dog came from a rescue, and had 11 great years with us, so don't feel guilty if, after trying everything, you do have to let him go.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Leanne, you've already had lots of great responses but just thought I'd add my experiences in too.

I got Lily when I was 16. I was very ill (I have OCD) and very low. To put it bluntly, I was ready (and had attempted) to check out of this world. I know it may sound irresponsible, but she was the best thing that ever happened to me. She got me out of bed because while I could ignore my own needs I couldn't ignore hers, she got me out the house because she needed walking and she she marked the point where I no longer was able to have suicidal thoughts because I could never leave my pets behind; they are my responsibility. Anyway, I digress, the point I'm making is that Lily was by my side 24 hours a day, I couldn't even go to the bathroom without her. In hindsight, this should probably have been a great big red flag but I needed her as much as she needed me. 
When Lily was about one year old I received treatment that made me more well in myself, I got a job and started studying. All hell broke loose in Lily's world then. Every time I left her I knew I'd be coming back to destruction and mayhem. I tried building up the time she was left alone gradually to no avail, left her with countless toys, the radio on, a full belly, everything I could think of to make being alone easier for her. In the end, I got so desperate I put her in a crate. She was so determined to get out that she broke a metal crate by continually scratching at it until it caved in. Her paws were red raw. It was awful. Finally, I decided to leave her with our family dog, Bryn. The destruction stopped instantly, I don't know whether it was because she just wanted some company (canine or human), or whether seeing him calm made her calmer but it worked. Do you know of anyone who has a well behaved dog you could leave Basil with? Don't be afraid to ask colleagues, neighbours, other dog walkers etc.

You say he doesn't like his crate, Lily used to hate hers too but she now *loves* it and often takes herself off to her crate. I made the crate a positive place to be for her when I realised how useful it was with my other dogs. Do you feed and play with Basil in his crate? Always leave the door open to begin with, then gradually build up the time you close the door.

WRT your other half's opinion on getting rid of Basil it's a very sad sign of our throwaway society. Passing the problem onto someone else has got to be least responsible thing he could ever do. For now, you know Basil is safe with you, his next owner may not tolerate his behaviour and resort to PTS. That's assuming Basil manages to find a new home in the first place, he is a dog with behavioural issues and there's thousands of dogs without them needing a new home too. He brought Basil into your lives, he needs to man up and take a bit of responsibility for his commitments. What will he say a few years down the line if you have kids who destroy things? Get rid of them too? I'm sorry if that sounds blunt but people like your OH are the reason we have such a rescue crisis in this country.

Lastly, I don't think this has been mentioned but you can buy perspex to attach to walls and doors as protection. I've seen it used in holiday lets and it would be a good way to keep your décor safe while you work through this.

I'm sorry you are in this situation but it can be overcome. The worst case scenario is that it is separation anxiety which I know from personal experience can be resolved. It could simply be adolescence which they grow out of, or boredom which can be managed.


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

I really hope you can find a solution, it must be a heartbreaking situation to be in  

I would really, really try asking around neighbours etc. When my Nana was too frail to really be able to have her own dog she was so depressed as she'd always had dogs in her life. She found out about a couple who needed someone to help with their dog while they worked, she couldn't walk the dog but his owners would drop him off to her house and he would just spend the day with her. She would sit in the garden with him so he could have a play, snuggle up on the couch with him and watch tv, just ordinary day to day stuff. I honestly think it kept my Nana going because even though the dog wasn't hers he still depended on her to some degree, she had the joy of having a dog back in her life and his owners could continue to work and know he was happy. 

We are lucky at the moment not to have chewers (although both of them bit straight through the power lead to my laptop, 3 years apart  ) but we have had chewers in the past, our house has lots of 'doggy character' including designer skirting boards, rugs that once had square corners now have rounded edges, the couch we have just given away had a wonderful teeth mark pattern across the bottom, one of the kitchen cupboards has a really handy hole in it so we can get things out without opening the door, I didn't really want those two new feather pillows I'd just bought and I think chunks taken out of the bathroom mat add a really nice feature to it


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I remember you saying the area was very dog friendly so i wold think maybe someone there would be doing a bit of pet sitting, even if not officially. They may be able to pop by yours for a little while, you never know their rtes may be ok.

It may be worth asking anyone you see walking a dog if they know of anyone or even in local shops or pubs or gardeners etc, they usually knowthe ins and outs of the place.

I hope everything can be sorted out. As people have said it is quite hard to rehome dogs in this climate.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> That's understandable, just thought maybe there'd be someone who could help out or be able to suggest something  I've been unable to help out before because of Ruperts dog aggression. And now I can't help anyone out due to being in another country


I think he can be managed enough to make it work, having met him I'm pretty sure a lot of it unchanneled energy with him being a young lab. I think the bigger picture needs to be looked at, if he were to be left ten hours a day five days a week forever I'm not sure it's fair to go through all the stress of getting him used to it. With mine at the minute they're alone 8.30-midday and 1-6 one weekday every other week. It's not ideal but they cope and it's only for 12 weeks in total (so six of those days), then it will change.

It is tough, I think there is plenty that can be done but it is a bit of a journey and I think the decision of what they want to do needs to be made first. Once you start you can't quit type thing it can take a couple months.

Hopefully he has gotten on OK today...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I was going to suggest another dog to keep him company, but it could so easily go the other way. Ferdie's destructiveness stopped immediately when I got Joshua, and so did his clinginess.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I was going to suggest another dog to keep him company, but it could so easily go the other way. Ferdie's destructiveness stopped immediately when I got Joshua, and so did his clinginess.


tI may be hard to find a rescue that will like the dog being left for so long, im guessing rescue as a pup could never go those hours either.

Might be a bit hard for a new dog to settle in the hours provided. Plus if OH isn't keen on one dog i doubt he'll think a second is the answer.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Leanne, I'm so sorry to read this, but I do think you need to work through it. Do you have much of a garden? Could you perhaps get him a kennel and run for during the day? 

I am having to rethink about where I put Jack, he managed to get himself locked in the living room and now I need a new door frame, he constantly pulls pots off the side smashing a whole drainer full of them last week (clean ones too) - and anything on the kitchen counters.. He had a whole packet of Rocky bars the other day. He has escaped his crate everytime I've put him in it, it was still locked so I couldn't work out why then today when I was leaving him I saw him do it - he pushes in between where the cage locks are and squeezes out!! He's bent all the crate door now! So I'm thinking of putting him outside when I take the clowns out. I cannot have him destroying our house. He, like yourself, has bones, toys, chews - everything. :thumbdown:

Hope you can work through this. I would've suggested another dog - but it can go the other way. Good luck.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Ok, maybe you're right......I'm damned good with Border Collies though.
> 
> But, tell me, weren't gundogs bred to have soft mouths? (As were Retriever type dogs?) Why would they have a predisposition to chew when this would be an undesirable trait in this type of dog?


He's not retrieving the floor, he's chewing it because he's bored, there's a difference. My 5 month old pup retrieves me items that she finds, tv remote, phone, socks, but if I left her with them no doubt she would eventually get round to chewing them. Her mother will carry a raw egg round in her mouth, but she was incredibly destructive as a youngster if left uncrated.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I just hate this attitude. Most people have a dog to enrich their lives and if it is making life a misery instead and the dog and the owner is unhappy then surely it is the RESPONSIBLE thing to consider rehoming to someone that give the dog a more fullfilled life because their lifestyle matches the lifestyle that particular dog needs.
> Surely it is nothing to do with choosing between the OH and the dog - that is horrible and hurtful to the OP. she has already asked that people do not make such comments.
> Frankly if my husband had a strong view on a dog that was wrecking our home I would take his views into consideration. He has as many rights as I do.


Firstly, I posted pior to having read all 15 pages, so didn't see what the OP said about her OH.

Secondly, I never said Basil should not be rehomed - I merely said that IF it's going to happen, better for it to happen sooner rather than later.

Thirdly, I disagree with you: a person does not have a 'right' to get a puppy, encourage his partner to bond with it, and THEN insist said puppy is rehomed for behaving *LIKE* a puppy!!!


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> *He's not retrieving the floor, he's chewing it because he's bored,* there's a difference. My 5 month old pup retrieves me items that she finds, tv remote, phone, socks, *but if I left her with them no doubt she would eventually get round to chewing them*. *Her mother will carry a raw egg round in her mouth, but she was incredibly destructive as a youngster if left uncrated*.


But why would you let her?

When my dog was a puppy, he would put his mouth around an item and give me a sideways glance and i'd just say "agh" or "no."

It was quite simple. He understood and the result is an entirely unchewed house.

You said he's chewing stuff because he's bored, and that has been my point all along.


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## Mehy (Jun 30, 2011)

Leanne I hope you have had a better day today.
I dont want to add more "advice" I just wanted to say that I hope things improve for you and your partner.
Whatever you decide to do I'm sure will be for the best. 
Thinking of you.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Mehy said:


> Leanne I hope you have had a better day today.
> I dont want to add more "advice" I just wanted to say that I hope things improve for you and your partner.
> Whatever you decide to do I'm sure will be for the best.
> Thinking of you.


Fantastic post!!

Hoping you Basil and OH all had a better day Leannelatty


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I hope too that you've had a better day leanne and Basil and your other half.

I was thinking about you and I do know that I was one of those who was less than kind about your other half and apologised for that. I also know that when you have a dog, as we did when we first got Molly, they can be a right pain and it's easy to say 'that's it'. Today we've have a nightmare day with Molly - if she could get into mischief she did. And that was with my husband around all day.

I hope that you can bear to read through some of the suggestions on here and that you find someone to help you. I think that there were a lot. I just worry that if you did rehome Basil you'd have a gap tempting to fill when in fact perhaps Basil with some help, is the dog for you. 

It's a tough situation. Do let us know what you decide.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Leanne, just a thought, but are there any teenagers in your area who love dogs and might be happy to walk Basil for less money than a dog walker? Just a thought, I met two 13 year old boys at the park this week whose parents refuse to get dogs, so the boys walk other people's dogs for free


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> But why would you let her?
> 
> When my dog was a puppy, he would put his mouth around an item and give me a sideways glance and i'd just say "agh" or "no."
> 
> ...


I didn't let her, I had a very unintelligent ex who used to insist crating was cruel, until I got home one day, five minutes after leaving, to find she'd destroyed six light bulbs that had been left boxed on the side (new ones). Chewing is self rewarding, and unless you spend 24/7 with your dog, you cannot guarantee a dog won't carry on this habit if you have to go out. I don't actively encourage my dogs to chew, but as they are retrievers and I train them a bit I don't discourage them from picking up objects either, I ask them to bring them to me instead. The last thing you want to do with a dog you plan to try and train to compete with, is discourage them from picking an item up!

It might have been your point all along that Basil is bored, but you also made some daft assumptions about gundogs and a soft mouth having anything to do with a gundog breed being destructive when left alone!


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Leanne, just a thought, but are there any teenagers in your area who love dogs and might be happy to walk Basil for less money than a dog walker? Just a thought, I met two 13 year old boys at the park this week whose parents refuse to get dogs, so the boys walk other people's dogs for free


No insult but would you sriously let a child you met in the park walk your dog for free? Would you be confident they could deal with other dogs approaching? They would always pick up after your dog? That they had the physical strength to hold your dog if it pulled? Or even a means to get your dog to a vets in case of an emergency?

I would never EVER let a child walk Millie and I honestly do not think that it the answer to the OP problems.

And even more stupid to provide keys to your house so they can get access to the dog.

Unless it is a close family friend and an adult is going to go as well it sounds like a very very risky idea.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

My retriever will eventually chew a tennis ball to bits if left alone with it, that's why I keep them away from her so when they come out, they're a high value toy to play with.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

OP, hope you're having a better day with Basil today.


samuelsmiles said:


> Well, that's like a Border Collie owner telling a cyclist he's just rounded up - "It's ok, that's his job...can't do anything about that mate.......no sheep about so you had to do"
> 
> You've got to find something to redirect his focus, something that utilises his skills - what he was bred over centuries to do. We've been left with a legacy of amazing animals that can do amazing things if given the opportunity, however, their jobs have now been taken away and they're expected to be just pets - just be there and be lovely and cuddly and funny and fluffy.
> 
> If a dog eats the lino it's not good enough to say "that's what they do." That's letting the dog down.


No it isn't - if you read my post you will see that I never said it was "ok" for Labs etc to be destructive, just that it's a breed tendancy that I would fully expect to rear it's head if not redirected or prevented.

Just as responsible BC owners strive to redirect inappropriate herding behaviour, responsible Lab owners strive to occupy their dogs in a manner that removes or at least reduces the urge to chew. Good point about the "jobs" being taken away though.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I didn't let her, I had a very unintelligent ex who used to insist crating was cruel, until I got home one day, five minutes after leaving, to find she'd destroyed six light bulbs that had been left boxed on the side (new ones). Chewing is self rewarding, and unless you spend 24/7 with your dog, you cannot guarantee a dog won't carry on this habit if you have to go out. I don't actively encourage my dogs to chew, but as they are retrievers and I train them a bit I don't discourage them from picking up objects either, I ask them to bring them to me instead.  The last thing you want to do with a dog you plan to try and train to compete with, is discourage them from picking an item up!
> 
> *It might have been your point all along that Basil is bored, but you also made some daft assumptions about gundogs and a soft mouth having anything to do with a gundog breed being destructive when left alone*!


I really am failing to see what my daft assumptions have been.

Gundogs and retrievers have been bred for that purpose, to retrieve....to bring back the caught prey without damaging it so, by definition, they have been bred to look after that item, not destroy it. That taken into account, the only reason left for destroying stuff is boredom, and that is a completely different matter.

If your dog is bored and destroying things, don'y blame the dog and use the 'going through a phase' excuse.

If I were lazy, I could use the same excuse with my Border Collie's inbred desire to herd sheep if he decided to herd cars, runners and cyclists instead. I chose to work _with _his attributes and channel his instinct into other rewarding tasks and games and ,hey presto, chasing undesirable things is a distant memory.

It really is quite simple.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> I really am failing to see what my daft assumptions have been.
> 
> Gundogs and retrievers have been bred for that purpose, to retrieve....to bring back the caught prey without damaging it so, by definition, they have been bred to look after that item, not destroy it. That taken into account, the only reason left for destroying stuff is boredom, and that is a completely different matter.
> 
> ...


Are you calling me lazy?

The daft assumption is very simple, a dog retrieving game out on a shoot, or out training even is WITH YOU, you are in full control of the situation, it's not sat at home with a pheasant in it's gob for five hours thinking, I mustn't chew, I mustn't chew, I mustn't chew!!!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> No insult but would you sriously let a child you met in the park walk your dog for free? Would you be confident they could deal with other dogs approaching? They would always pick up after your dog? That they had the physical strength to hold your dog if it pulled? Or even a means to get your dog to a vets in case of an emergency?
> 
> I would never EVER let a child walk Millie and I honestly do not think that it the answer to the OP problems.
> 
> ...


I recall you thinking my idea of letting someone into a house was silly yesterday! I think that everyone is just trying to find something for free and constructive to help Basil and Leanne since the constraints appear to be largely financial in this case. As I think I said, it was a case of perhaps ads and then meeting people than just handing over although I agree perhaps rather utopian. We're all racking our brains to help with no idea (unless i've missed that post and I might have with so many pages) of where the OP lives.

It's a tough one with no real answer that doesn't involve trusting someone for free - probably impossible as you say. Or spending money. I feel so sorry for Basil in all this, poor chap.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Are you calling me lazy?
> 
> The daft assumption is very simple, a dog retrieving game out on a shoot, or out training even is WITH YOU, you are in full control of the situation, it's not sat at home with a pheasant in it's gob for five hours thinking, I mustn't chew, I mustn't chew, I mustn't chew!!!


That's exactly what he's thinking if he's got hold of the Fruit Pastilles.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I didn't let her, *I had a very unintelligent ex who used to insist crating was cruel, until I got home one day, five minutes after leaving, to find she'd destroyed six light bulbs *that had been left boxed on the side (new ones). Chewing is self rewarding, and unless you spend 24/7 with your dog, you cannot guarantee a dog won't carry on this habit if you have to go out. I don't actively encourage my dogs to chew, but as they are retrievers and I train them a bit I don't discourage them from picking up objects either, I ask them to bring them to me instead. The last thing you want to do with a dog you plan to try and train to compete with, is discourage them from picking an item up!
> 
> It might have been your point all along that Basil is bored, but you also made some daft assumptions about gundogs and a soft mouth having anything to do with a gundog breed being destructive when left alone!


That's blaming the dog though.

You're saying he couldn't be trusted to behave himself, so had to be crated to pevent this happening when other simple methods of teaching a young dog/puppy respect could have been applied. There's too much 'chuck 'em in a cage and that'll solve the problem' going on here

So, yes, lazy.


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Quite simply your circumstances have changed here and poor basil has taken the blunt of it

It really is unfair for him to be left 10hours a day with one half hour visit in between and thats your main issue here with chewing.

I feel for you both as its not easy in these harsh times we are in and we all have to work to get our pennies....but I do think you have to put yourself in basils position and how you would feel shut up in the house for 10 hours a day.

If your situation is to continue then it may be kinder to rehome basil even although you dont want to

You need to think of basil here


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> No insult but would you sriously let a child you met in the park walk your dog for free? Would you be confident they could deal with other dogs approaching? They would always pick up after your dog? That they had the physical strength to hold your dog if it pulled? Or even a means to get your dog to a vets in case of an emergency?
> 
> I would never EVER let a child walk Millie and I honestly do not think that it the answer to the OP problems.
> 
> ...


No need to be insulting.

*I did not ever *suggest giving house keys to a child. I was merely mentioning a POSSIBLE idea to look into. The teenage boys I met were walking a small dog ON LEAD through the park and the owner had spent time with them and walked with them and found them very helpful.

I was simply throwing out an IDEA that works for a woman I know who is unwell and was desperate for some help.

You of course don't have to agree with anything I suggest, but kindly refrain from labelling me or my suggestions *'stupid'.* Totally uncalled for.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> That's blaming the dog though.
> 
> You're saying he couldn't be trusted to behave himself, so had to be crated to pevent this happening when other simple methods of teaching a young dog/puppy respect could have been applied. There's too much 'chuck 'em in a cage and that'll solve the problem' going on here
> 
> So, yes, lazy.


He is a she, and the he was my ex. I have four dogs, none of them are 'chucked in a cage' they are crate and pen trained as I don't think it's healthy for dogs to eat light bulbs, or other things they may chew on when you leave the house. It's rather nice of you to assume I'm lazy, thank you, you have never met me or my dogs, so don't have a foggiest to what extent they are, or aren't trained. Boredom and chewing has nothing to do with other levels of training ime, it has to do with being left on their own, and when you've got four dogs, or if you look after up to twenty dogs at a time, as I have done on a regular basis, you can get combinations of dogs that become destructive when they egg each other on.

What an unlovely person you are, never mind!

Apologies Leanne, I hope you've had a better day with Basil, I can fully understand the chewing, and wanted to offer, if you're close enough, to go and do some gundog training with you. Not because I think it would stop the chewing completely, but because it might give you something to focus on.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

As gundog types are orally fixated they are much more likely to chew than other types of dog, especially when young, as it give pleasure, relief etc.
My dogs compete at a canine sport, sleeping lions work as gundogs, we would never discourage the pups picking things up and bringing them to us. We want them to retrieve, but that is different from chewing.

Hope you find a solution to your problem Leanne.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> He is a she, and the he was my ex. I have four dogs, none of them are 'chucked in a cage' they are crate and pen trained as I don't think it's healthy for dogs to eat light bulbs, or other things they may chew on when you leave the house. It's rather nice of you to assume I'm lazy, thank you, you have never met me or my dogs, so don't have a foggiest to what extent they are, or aren't trained. Boredom and chewing has nothing to do with other levels of training ime, it has to do with being left on their own, and when you've got four dogs, or if you look after up to twenty dogs at a time, as I have done on a regular basis, you can get combinations of dogs that become destructive when they egg each other on.
> 
> What an unlovely person you are, never mind!
> 
> Apologies Leanne, I hope you've had a better day with Basil, I can fully understand the chewing, and wanted to offer, if you're close enough, to go and do some gundog training with you. Not because I think it would stop the chewing completely, but because it might give you something to focus on.


You talk about crate training as some sort of great achievement.

I prefer to give my boy a free run of the downstairs but, to be honest, he gets so much stimulation when we're out and about that he pretty much sleeps and rests at home for the rest of the time. I know this because I work from home and am able to give him the attention he needs and deserves.

I took all of this into consideration before I got him.....it's because i'm a nice person, and wouldn't be comfortable giving him anything less than he absolutely deserved.

In my humble opinion, crates and cages are for rabbits.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> *You talk about crate training as some sort of great achievement.*
> 
> I prefer to give my boy a free run of the downstairs but, to be honest, he gets so much stimulation when we're out and about that he pretty much sleeps and rests at home for the rest of the time. I know this because I work from home and am able to give him the attention he needs and deserves.
> 
> ...


You REALLY don't know me at all!

You have one dog I take it? A collie that you seem to have been fairly lucky with as not all are as laid back as others. I have four retrievers, and regularly look after a few of my OH's working dogs, he has a kennel of over 20 working dogs. I have a full time job and a business, and take the time out to help other people socialsie their dogs because mine happen to be well mannered and good at puppy socialisation. I use crates and pens while I'm out and can't supervise my dogs to ensure they don't chew things they shouldn't, that's not lazy, that's because I care for my dogs.

You are a very rude person, you've insinuated I'm lazy, and that I don't give my dogs what they deserve, without even knowing me, let's hope karma kicks in hen. I hope no one else is put off the use of crates, pens or safe runs from this sort of post, entirely unecessary.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Jenny Olley said:


> As gundog types are orally fixated they are much more likely to chew than other types of dog, especially when young, as it give pleasure, relief etc.
> My dogs compete at a canine sport, sleeping lions work as gundogs, we would never discourage the pups picking things up and bringing them to us. We want them to retrieve, but that is different from chewing.
> 
> Hope you find a solution to your problem Leanne.


Thank you Jenny, at least you know two of my dogs, I'll have to fetch the pups up for you to meet at some point, when I have time!


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> No need to be insulting.
> 
> *I did not ever *suggest giving house keys to a child. I was merely mentioning a POSSIBLE idea to look into. The teenage boys I met were walking a small dog ON LEAD through the park and the owner had spent time with them and walked with them and found them very helpful.
> 
> ...


I did not say that you suggested giving keys to 13 year olds from the park- but anyone walking someones dog needs to have access to said dog which is most likely going to be within the home. I hve nowhere said you were stupid just that I believe someone would be stupid to let anybody adult or child access to their home or dog uninsured.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> You talk about crate training as some sort of great achievement.
> 
> I prefer to give my boy a free run of the downstairs but, to be honest, he gets so much stimulation when we're out and about that he pretty much sleeps and rests at home for the rest of the time. I know this because I work from home and am able to give him the attention he needs and deserves.
> 
> ...


If it is between a dog chewing in the house, and potentially causing themselves serious harm, or them being in a crate, I would always choose the crate.

My older dog was crated as a puppy, and once he was a bit older, I stopped using the crate. He hasn't ever chewed anything he wasn't supposed to when he has been left alone, and I think part of this is down to being crate trained, and therefore not learning to chew things he shouldn't and it becoming habit.

Now, my pup is crated when left. Again, he hasn't chewed what he isn't meant to but he is still only 6 months old. At first he was crated when left alone, and during the night. He no longer gets crated at night (he sleeps in my room) but I still crate him when left and I will continue to do so.

Both my dogs are stimulated, mentally and physically. But, when they are young, I just do not want to run the risk of them chewing something dangerous. Some dogs do chew, even if they do get a lot of stimulation at other times in the day...

I must be one of those not nice people


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> I did not say that you suggested giving keys to 13 year olds from the park- but anyone walking someones dog needs to have access to said dog which is most likely going to be within the home. I hve nowhere said you were stupid just that I believe someone would be stupid to let anybody adult or child access to their home or dog uninsured.


I accept that you did not in any way *intend *to insult me.

I think that as Basil desperately needs company, it just might be worth seeing if there is anyone in the local area who is trustworthy; I would NEVER advocate giving keys to a stranger and certainly not a teenager. But maybe if said teenagers have nice, decent parents who are happy that their kids are doing something positive such as walking a dog, just maybe something could be worked out...

Just throwing out ideas as I really feel so sorry for Basil.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

samuelsmiles said:


> You talk about crate training as some sort of great achievement.
> 
> I prefer to give my boy a free run of the downstairs but, to be honest, he gets so much stimulation when we're out and about that he pretty much sleeps and rests at home for the rest of the time. I know this because I work from home and am able to give him the attention he needs and deserves.
> 
> ...


Tbh I think it's unhealthy for dog's to be with their owners constantly, that's why most dog's develop SA when owners do have to leave the house! I work from home and got my dogs used to a crate for the times when I do go out. They LOVE their crate and will take themselves to it sometimes if they are sleepy or have a treat even though they have the whole house to sleep in! Also if a dog has to stay at the vets after an OP they sleep in a cage, how stressful would it be for I disoriented dog to wake up in a cage when it's never been in one before? Most pups chew, it doesn't make you a bad owner! Maybe you have been extremely lucky?

Also why is ok for a rabbit to be caged and not dogs for a while? I'm sure if rabbits has a choice they would much rather roam freely but it's just not practical in most cases, just like its not practical to let dogs chew stuff if you have to leave the house.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> In my humble opinion, crates and cages are for rabbits.


Ha ha - only in your opinon though - try telling my dogs that - they've been know to create a diversion in order to get a youngster out of the crate so they can use it!


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> You REALLY don't know me at all!
> 
> You have one dog I take it? A collie that you seem to have been fairly lucky with as not all are as laid back as others. I have four retrievers, and regularly look after a few of my OH's working dogs, he has a kennel of over 20 working dogs. I have a full time job and a business, and take the time out to help other people socialsie their dogs because mine happen to be well mannered and good at puppy socialisation. I use crates and pens while I'm out and can't supervise my dogs to ensure they don't chew things they shouldn't, that's not lazy, that's because I care for my dogs.
> 
> You are a very rude person, you've insinuated I'm lazy, and that I don't give my dogs what they deserve, without even knowing me, let's hope karma kicks in hen. I hope no one else is put off the use of crates, pens or safe runs from this sort of post, entirely unecessary.


Yes, I have one dog because I care about him so much that I'm not ready to bring in (hopefully) a young rescue sister that we could both happily live with.

Lucky? Maybe. Someone did once say to me how lucky I was to have him. I like to think I played some small part in his happiness and wellbeing though.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine having to crate him for _any _length of time.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Yes, I have one dog because I care about him so much that I'm not ready to bring in (hopefully) a young rescue sister that we could both happily live with.
> 
> Lucky? Maybe. Someone did once say to me how lucky I was to have him. I like to think I played some small part in his happiness and wellbeing though.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't imagine having to crate him for _any _length of time.


I genuinely feel sorry for your dog, you obviously love him, but you transfer human emotions onto him. If there is one thing I won't do to my dogs, it is to encumber them with a perception that they are somehow human, they're not, they're dogs, animals, and I love them for being just that. Crating a dog isn't imprisoning it, it's putting it in a secure environment while you're not there to supervise. A dog doesn't differentiate between sleeping in a crate, pen, dog run, or on a sofa/bed etc. They are asleep, it makes no difference to them, the only one who sees a difference is you.

I've had two rescue oldies through the door, one of my current girls is named after one of them. If you really want to do well with rescuing, look at bringing in an oldie, they're the overlooked ones.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> Ha ha - only in your opinon though - try telling my dogs that - they've been know to create a diversion in order to get a youngster out of the crate so they can use it!


Ha-ha, yes that is my opinion only.

I love to see my dog running in the fields freely and I like him to have the freedom of the downstairs. He does have canvas crate under the table which he loves, but i've never had the necessity to zip him in it.

I guess I've just got lucky.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> If there is one thing I won't do to my dogs, it is to encumber them with a perception that they are somehow human, they're not, they're dogs, animals, and I love them for being just that. Crating a dog isn't imprisoning it, it's putting it in a secure environment while you're not there to supervise. A dog doesn't differentiate between sleeping in a crate, pen, dog run, or on a sofa/bed etc. They are asleep, it makes no difference to them, the only one who sees a difference is you.


Very true. In fact more problems occur with dogs because their owners anthropomorphise them and do not understand their needs than any other reason.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> Yes, I have one dog because I care about him so much that I'm not ready to bring in (hopefully) a young rescue sister that we could both happily live with.
> 
> Lucky? Maybe. Someone did once say to me how lucky I was to have him. I like to think I played some small part in his happiness and wellbeing though.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't imagine having to crate him for _any _length of time.


I'm sorry but there is a way of coming on a forum and getting your point across without stating that everyone that crate trains is a lazy dog owner that doesn't give a toss.

I know sleeping_lion, i know her girls and I also know that those dogs are by far 4 of the most amazing dogs I have ever met, infact Indie her eldest isn't a dog, she is a human in a dog coat, you will struggle to find a dog the same. And she crate trains, as does a large number of people on here. Just because you crate train does not make you a lazy owner.

My three are crate trained, Lexi my staffie is nervous, we had lots of issues with stress when we are out, toiletting, chewing the doors etc. I refused to crate train her as I too thought it was cruel. Then Bos our rescue came along. He had lived in kennels for 12 months and had to be restricted to a crate, I needed a time out place for him, he would chew, he was uncontrolable, he once nearly blew my house up by turning the gas hob on, yep crating is better for him.
So we got him a crate and Lexi started shutting herself in it. So we listened to her, got her a crate and now if she is upsset or nervous (like when the window cleaner comes) she goes and shuts herself in her crate.
I don't mind her been crated and I have tried leaving her out but she likes it.

Nala is a 19 week old lab and she is crate trained. I , like sleeping_lion, am hoping to work Nala, therefore every retrieve must be rewarded, regardless if its a ball a toy a dvd or like Nala did the other day a used condom from the field follwed by a dead mouse, the most vital thing you learn in training a gundog is NEVER dicourage a retrieve and NEVER tell them off for picking anything up. I am following those rules and Nala brings me prizes. I am in no doubt that if left on her own she would pick things up because well that's what I have taught her to do, and if she had no one to give her 'prize' to she would chew it.

Also the one thing I was warned before I got Nala by people who have been in the breed years, they are one of THE most mouthy breeds, and to be warned. I have been fairly lucky with Nala, the top of my stairs, my plant and Lexis new collar are the only casualties so far.

As I have found different dog breeds work in totally different ways, they way I worked with Lexi just wouldn't work with Nala and the way you work with a collie won't work with a lab.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> *I genuinely feel sorry for your dog,* you obviously love him, but you transfer human emotions onto him. If there is one thing I won't do to my dogs, it is to encumber them with a perception that they are somehow human, they're not, they're dogs, animals, and I love them for being just that. Crating a dog isn't imprisoning it, it's putting it in a secure environment while you're not there to supervise. A dog doesn't differentiate between sleeping in a crate, pen, dog run, or on a sofa/bed etc. They are asleep, it makes no difference to them, the only one who sees a difference is you.
> 
> I've had two rescue oldies through the door, one of my current girls is named after one of them. If you really want to do well with rescuing, look at bringing in an oldie, they're the overlooked ones.


Do you really?

Do you really feel sorry for him? Tell ya what, here's a link to a video of how I treat him like a human. He's only 20 months old and he's my first dog so I think we're doing ok.

He's also a gentle dog without a bad bone in his body.
Percy - YouTube


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

I also create my dogs. They have used them since being with me at 10 and 8 weeks old. They just see them as their bedrooms! 
I use them as I would rather not have no house left and know they were safe when left. Majority of the time its left open and they roam free. But when its time to be closed, they don't really notice. When used right, they are a great tool to have. Once again just my opinion.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Do you really?
> 
> Do you really feel sorry for him? Tell ya what, here's a link to a video of how I treat him like a human. He's only 20 months old and he's my first dog so I think we're doing ok.
> 
> ...


I never said he wasn't a gentle dog, I never said anything about your dog, I said I felt sorry for him because of the human emotions you seem to place on him, that's a very different thing. You criticise me for what you perceive as not treating my dogs well enough, well I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the perception you have of your dogs, actually I'm not sorry, but I was trying to be polite.

So, this is your first dog, he's a collie, and you agree you seem to have been very lucky with his character, but you would like to tell me, who looks after close to 25-30 dogs at a time, that I'm lazy and don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to crate training, pull the other one!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

samuelsmiles said:


> Do you really?
> 
> Do you really feel sorry for him? Tell ya what, here's a link to a video of how I treat him like a human. He's only 20 months old and he's my first dog so I think we're doing ok.
> 
> ...


Your dog is adorable  And the intelligence in those eyes!

I've never used a crate; my Rough Collie puppy had a big basket and was a very placid boy, and Dex was 14 months when I rehomed him though in retrospect, I think we might both have benefited from a crate - if for no other reason than I could have shut myself inside it when he was having one of his crazy rampages through the house 

I feel that there are good owners who crate and good owners who don't crate. Each to their own.

Having been on this forum a while, and enjoyed and learned from *SLEEPING LION,* I would surmise she is definitely one of the 'good' owners who choose to crate 

To Crate Or Not To Crate - that is the question......!


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Your dog is adorable  And the intelligence on those eyes!
> 
> I've never used a crate; my Rough Collie puppy had a big basket and was a very placid boy, and Dex was 14 months when I rehomed him though in retrospect, I think we might both have benefited from a crate - if for no other reason than I could have shut myself inside it when he was having one of his crazy rampages through the house
> 
> I feel that there are good owners who crate and good owners who don't crate. Each to their own.


I couldn't agree more, I don't think that people who crate train are lazy, and I don't think people who don't are always the better owner. I was a good owner when I got Lex, I am a better owner now and I crate train. It has nothing to do with the crate training it is to do with the amount of time and effort I have spent understanding working and training my dogs.
For anyone that has met Bos they know I have the patience of a bloody saint with that dog :yikes:

Its not our training choices that make us good or bad owners, its how you follow through with them. Someone who leaves there dog uncrated but then gives it a good crack when they get home because it has chewed something it no better than someone who sticks their dog in a crate for 11 hours a day without a second thought!!


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I never said he wasn't a gentle dog, I never said anything about your dog, I said I felt sorry for him because of the human emotions you seem to place on him, that's a very different thing. You criticise me for what you perceive as not treating my dogs well enough, well I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the perception you have of your dogs, actually I'm not sorry, but I was trying to be polite.
> 
> So, this is your first dog, he's a collie, *and you agree you seem to have been very lucky with his character*, but you would like to tell me, who looks after close to 25-30 dogs at a time, that I'm lazy and don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to crate training, pull the other one!


That was said with tongue in cheek. I guess luck is equivelent to how much time you're prepared to spend working with your dog.

It's early days. And I'm gone.

ps. please don't feel sorry for Percy.....he's gonna be just fine.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

samuelsmiles said:


> That was said with tongue in cheek. I guess luck is equivelent to how much time you're prepared to spend with your dog.


I think this is going completely off topic and getting boring IMO ........ don't mean to be a grouch but it is .............

Leanne i don't know what to suggest lovely, just keep working at it and i hope it all works out for the best ..... keep us updated


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> In my humble opinion, crates and cages are for rabbits.


Tell that to airlines, vets, ferries and the like then. My dog is REQUIRED to be crated on a plane and if he's in the vets overnight he's going to be in what is the equivalent of a crate. He may also need to be crated to recover from surgery at some point. He's also crated on ferries as I prefer that to him being left in the car alone for 8 or more hours. I'll happily admit to being a lazy cow in some respects, but I'm far from lazy when it comes to my dog and his welfare.

You come across as very judgemental I'm afraid. Not all dogs are as easy and problem free as yours seems to be. And some problems require management as well as training if you're going to fix them.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> I couldn't agree more, I don't think that people who crate train are lazy, and I don't think people who don't are always the better owner. I was a good owner when I got Lex, I am a better owner now and I crate train. It has nothing to do with the crate training it is to do with the amount of time and effort I have spent understanding working and training my dogs.
> For anyone that has met Bos they know I have the patience of a bloody saint with that dog :yikes:
> 
> Its not our training choices that make us good or bad owners, its how you follow through with them. Someone who leaves there dog uncrated but then gives it a good crack when they get home because it has chewed something it no better than someone who sticks their dog in a crate for 11 hours a day without a second thought!!


I obviously beat my dogs with big sticks and throw them in a cage to make them comply, you've seen them after all!



samuelsmiles said:


> That was said with tongue in cheek. I guess luck is equivelent to how much time you're prepared to spend working with your dog.
> 
> It's early days. And I'm gone.
> 
> ps. please don't feel sorry for Percy.....he's gonna be just fine.


You are so rude it defies belief, I think my nickname for you will be 'Troll' since that's exactly how you post!

Thankfully, I'm mature enough to rise above such provocative and immature posts hen, never mind eh, better luck on your next fishing trip


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> I did not say that you suggested giving keys to 13 year olds from the park- but anyone walking someones dog needs to have access to said dog which is most likely going to be within the home. I hve nowhere said you were stupid just that I believe someone would be stupid to let anybody adult or child access to their home or dog uninsured.


I must be very very stupid then because it would never cross my mind NOT to let someone in my house to see to my dogs and take them for a walk. Just as it would not cross my mind to consider whether they were insured.

Anyway looks like this thread is heading for being closed.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

CaliDog said:


> I think this is going completely off topic and getting boring IMO ........ don't mean to be a grouch but it is .............
> 
> Leanne i don't know what to suggest lovely, just keep working at it and i hope it all works out for the best ..... keep us updated


I quite agree. If anyone wants to discuss the merits or otherwise of crating their dog, please start a new thread in which to do so. I expect Leanne has given up reading this one.

My own opinion is that if this dog has to be left for that amount of time in a small space, he would be better off rehomed. Why not put an ad in the newsagents to see if there is an OAP who no longer has a dog but would love the company for the days. The old lady opposite me is 86 and I know she would be thrilled if someone asked her to look after their dog for the day, provided you keep your dogwalker as well.

You might well have someone like that near you. Print off some flyers with his photo on - no harm in asking.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I must be very very stupid then because it would never cross my mind NOT to let someone in my house to see to my dogs and take them for a walk. Just as it would not cross my mind to consider whether they were insured.
> 
> Anyway looks like this thread is heading for being closed.


The poster who first suggested this was talking about paying money to a child to walk somones dog as its cheaper than a professional insured dogwalker. In that respect unless its someone you know and trust I believe its a BIG risk to hand over your house keys.

I for one would spend more time worrying about whether my dog was ok.

If it was a good friend who new Millie well of course id let them have access.

Just my humble opinion.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> The poster who first suggested this was talking about paying money to a child to walk somones dog as its cheaper than a professional insured dogwalker. In that respect unless its someone you know and trust I believe its a BIG risk to hand over your house keys.
> 
> I for one would spend more time worrying about whether my dog was ok.
> 
> ...


I think in that sort of situation I would want to meet the parents and have the teenagers come round to the house a few times first but there has to be some trust in this world and if everything seemed ok I would be happy with it. Insurance would not bother me and handing a teenager a couple of quid sounds ok. Quite a few teenagers do both dog walking and baby sitting and get plenty of work.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> The poster who first suggested this was talking about paying money to a child to walk somones dog as its cheaper than a professional insured dogwalker. In that respect unless its someone you know and trust I believe its a BIG risk to hand over your house keys.
> 
> I for one would spend more time worrying about whether my dog was ok.
> 
> ...


Er, actually I think I said '*teenagers',* *not 'child',* which means it could be a teenager of 18 or 19....

*And to reiterate: I NEVER SAID house keys should be handed over to children.* Please stop misquoting me.

We are talking about a dire situation, whereby a puppy is being left alone for far too long and the owner by her own admission is in tears on a regular basis. I was simply throwing out a suggestion and thinking aloud in a bid to help.

I should also add that I DO know of two 13 year old boys who ADORE dogs and whom very, very responsibly walk a dog that I know. They are lovely boys and they stay locally, keep the dog on a lead, and make a huge fuss of him. It's a massive help to the dog's owner who is sadly unwell.

I do agree that a large, powerful dog should not be walked by young teenagers. But there are plenty of 18 and 19 year olds who are sensible enough, in my humble view, to walk a dog on their own.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

leannelatty said:


> sorry forgot to say hes left from about 8 in the morning until 12-1230 when the dog walker comes and then again until about 530-6


I haven`t read all the thread but just wanted to say - I`ve heard a similar story so many times with Labs. They mature late, they are working dogs, they are people dogs. They don`t do well if left. 
I really wish there was more info on this for prospective owners. 
The only thing I can suggest is a dog sitter. Your dog will not be content to just sit about for 8 hours for many years IMO. (sorry).


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't think it's as much about the walking as the having someone there so he's not alone all that time to be honest. But I'm not sure a teen would be the answer, younger ones are going to be at school most of the day, older ones possibly at work or college. I'd personally be looking for someone who's retired and would like the company of a dog without the expense and being tied down so much. Even if they can't walk Basil he'd have company and attention. My grandma used to look after her neighbours dog, no way she could walk her but her owner did that so it wasn't necessary.


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I don't think it's as much about the walking as the having someone there so he's not alone all that time to be honest. But I'm not sure a teen would be the answer, younger ones are going to be at school most of the day, older ones possibly at work or college. I'd personally be looking for someone who's retired and would like the company of a dog without the expense and being tied down so much. Even if they can't walk Basil he'd have company and attention. My grandma used to look after her neighbours dog, no way she could walk her but her owner did that so it wasn't necessary.


I agree, my MIL does this. Do we know even a vague area where the OP lives?


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

I wouldn't trust a teenager take Rufus for a walk. I don't trust my OH's 13 year old to take Rufus by himself, let alone a kid who doesn't know him. 1) Rufus is quite boisterous (like Basil) and would be too much for a kid to handle if he gets silly. 2) How do you know you can trust this kid?... They may come with a glowing report from their parents but alot of parents don't know what goes on behind the scenes with their kids. 3) I don't care what anyone says.. kids don't pick up poop. You may think your kid does, but i've never once seen a kid scoop the poop, and know for a fact that my OH's 13 year old doesn't with his Mum's dog. She thinks he's very responsible and scoops, but he openly admits to us that he doesn't and it's the same with his other 'responsible' friends. Josh is a good kid, but he just doesn't want to pick up poop. So for me, there's no point making him walk the dog as one of his chores as it wont get done properly and I can't enforce the scooping rules. I'd rather have him do the dishes or something 

Soooo.. I agree with others that a teenager taking Basil for a walk would not be a sensible/cheaper option.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I walked two boistrous springers when I was 15/16. I scooped the poop and managed to keep out of trouble. I actually did this for free - my dog was in season when I started walking the springers and I was upset that I could go out for our usual 5 mile rambles and my mum was chatting to this lady and discovered she was finding it difficult to give the springers enough exercise because she's just taken on a difficult foster child... it worked really well for all of us. When my dog came out of season I took all three and didn't get into any bother despite my dog and one of the springers being quite dog-reactive - I was reasonably well-informed and sensible and handled it better than either of my parents did at the time.

When I was 17/18 I had a job looking after a lady's horses at the weekend and often, her whole house and a small pack of Rhodesian Ridgebacks when she was away for the weekend.

There are good teens and bad teens just as there are good adults and bad adults and there are a good many more sensibe and capable older teens around then people seem to think.

I actually think a retired dogless dog lover could actually be what's needed in this situation, but I just wanted to defend teens a little bit. You could have trusted myself as a teen with anything at all - apart from probably chocolate biscuits.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think, if it is possible, finding a retired person to spend some time with Basil during the day is a great idea... That might be hard to come by though, especially because he is a young, boisterous dog, and some older people might not feel comfortable to be around that. A friend of mine works night shift sometimes, and lives with her friend. When she is working nights, her friend is in the house so the dog is not alone (I walk her dog for her, so when she is working days, he has me ). However, a while back, her friend had to go to America with work for 4 weeks... this meant the dog was alone for 14 hours overnight. So, my friend arranged for her elderly mum to stay at her house for those 4 weeks so the dog wasn't alone. Her dog is boisterous, and lively, and her poor mum did it for 2 nights and then could not longer do it. She was terrified the dog was going to knock her over, jump on her etc. 

I know this is not a popular opinion on here, however, I don't think the crate is such an issue IF this is just a phase. Of course, it isn't ideal but it is safer. There are so many dogs looking for homes, and struggling... So, it could be hard to find Basil a home... especially if he cannot be left. There are so many dogs without any issues that struggle, so a dog who is destructive when left, isn't something that many people would like to take on. I think the crate is worth a try, and see if it can help him overcome this phase, and to not allow him into the habit of becoming destructive. Then, if he does stop, he can be left out the crate and have a better run of the house. If not, well something else will need to be thought of. 

I know a dog (funnily enough, the boisterous dog I have already mentioned in this post) who was previously owned by man, and this man left his dog (an Irish Setter) in a crate all day, with no breaks, day in day out throughout the first two years of his life. His dog didn't get 'proper' walks, just a 15 minute pavement walk, and had zero training. This is obviously not a good situation for a dog, but this dog had this going on for the long term, and he had no physical or mental stimulation to tire him... It must have been hell for him to be left in a crate for all those hours. 

Many people work full time, and have high energy dogs. If a dog gets physical and mental stimulation when the owners are there, and lots of time and attention at the weekends etc, then I think they are more content to be left during the day... I have a BC, a breed who are both high energy and love to be around people, I will need to work full time though (when I finally get a job to) and I am sure he will manage just fine because I will make sure he gets everything he needs. The Irish Setter now lives with my friend, who works full time, and long hours... he is doing ok, much better than I first thought. I was very much against her taking him on, and while I don't think her working hours are ideal, he is happy and wants for nothing... so, it is still a happy ending for him.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I agree lozzi, perhaps a good idea would be to crate and when the dog walker comes they can leave him out with a bone or something else so really he's only out for 3-4hrs (I think), or visa vera. Depends when he is most tired/will sleep. I would try and find out (through sounds recording) when his destructiveness occurs and do it that way, if he's fine in the morning leave him out an dget the walker to put him in the crate after his walk etc.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Hi guys. I really appreciate everyone's advice and support. We've fitted so locks on the doors now to stop him getting to other areas of the house and just had a text from my dog walker and he's not managed to unlock them so that's a result! OH has calmed down a lt not and last night admitted that he thinks the time that's Basil gets anxious is when he hears the ice cream van outside. Now those that have seen some of my previous posts will know that it is my OH that has made the dog get very excited by the noise of the ice cream van!! So if this is what is starting him off then OH has noone to blame but himself!! But things seem to be improving a little and I will def look into finding someone that might be able to spend some more time with him during the day. 

Sorry I haven't addressed everyones points but so busy at the mo! Oh I'm in Essex by the way in a small village outside of Chelmsford x


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sounds more positive. If its the ice cream van then perhaps he'll soon get used to the fact no ones going to buy him. Sounds like you and your OH are working things through now. Probably a bit like mine who'll have a rant (which I ignore) and then settle down to deal with the situation.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Would leaving some music on help drown out the sound if it is the ice cream van?


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> Would leaving some music on help drown out the sound if it is the ice cream van?


Been doing this for a while but I guess the noise from the van is very distinctive!!


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm glad things are a wee bit better and the OH is calming down a bit to.

Normally I wouldn't do this but I'm sending out vibes for snow, so the ice cream van will stop trolling the area!


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Modwyn said:


> I'm glad things are a wee bit better and the OH is calming down a bit to.
> 
> Normally I wouldn't do this but I'm sending out vibes for snow, so the ice cream van will stop trolling the area!


Don't do that!!! I've got to walk him at 5am as of Monday and don't want snow to face too!!!


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

What sound does the ice cream van make, if its green sleeves or one of the classics could you get a recording of it and maybe de-sensitise him to it or would that just make it worse. I don't know  Or what if you played that to him all day so he couldn't hear the van or would that drive him more mental (I know it would me!)

Perhaps your OH should try to calm him down instead of wind him up  if it comes round at the week end.

Glad things are looking up and OH has calmed down a bit.


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## Sheen and Eli (Mar 28, 2010)

leannelatty said:


> Been doing this for a while but I guess the noise from the van is very distinctive!!


Not read whole thread just this last page so if what I say sound daft ignore 
Is there anyway you could record the ice cream vans tune or google for a .wav file and play it quietly slowly getting louder over time to get him used to it? Like the fireworks CDs
Again ignore if it sounds daft 

Just seen gingers post D'oh!


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Sheen and Eli said:


> Not read whole thread just this last page so if what I say sound daft ignore
> Is there anyway you could record the ice cream vans tune or google for a .wav file and play it quietly slowly getting louder over time to get him used to it? Like the fireworks CDs
> Again ignore if it sounds daft
> 
> Just seen gingers post D'oh!


Ooh glad I wasn't completely daft


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Well, that explains at lot, if he's getting excited by the ice cream van. Amber can get destructive when fireworks are going off or thunder because she's so frightened she doesn't know what she's doing.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Grrrrrr men!! My husband is the same! We now have a dog that howls every time he hears children crying on TV 

Glad things are going in the right direction and a little better for you.

Personally, I think you should tell the ice cream man to choose a different route!! They're a menace at the best of times. It makes me laugh that they have signs saying "beware children crossing" and yet they park in the most stupid and dangerous places...


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Your Oh would have ripped his hair out and left if he was at my house when i lived in my old house. One of my dogs jumped up and dead bolted the front door (yale lock) the proceeded to rip up my living room carpet, whilst i had someone drill through my locks. Got in the house and the carpet near the door was down to concrete, a 17kilo sack of food was ripped open and was all over the house. My pine wooden doors had scratches in them that were so deep i couldnt sand them out. Then a couple of weeks later they ripped the dining room door off its hinges (yep they did) to get up the stairs where one of them proceed to rip the stair carpets up and the other a bedroom carpet. Cooker knobs chewed off, washer knobs chewed off. One knicked clothes out the wash basket and chewed them up Then to top it off one of them actually chewed my round back door handle off, so i couldnt open the door for 3 days  now that to me was all pretty much standard damage, they were all bar 2 of them around 11-19 months old. The damage i just described all happened in 2 weeks. I had a huge pantry that was in the dining room, i had a window put in to it, covered it in blanket and toys and one went in there, then i went and bought 3 crates and the 4 juveniles were crated or put away where the couldnt cause damage(weirdly all the boys) the 2 girls were left out and i never had any more damage to the house.

I would have a very serious converstion with your OH, i am sorry to say it but no one would ever be able to say 'it's me or the dog' to me as i wouldnt give them the chance.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I think you should print off that post and show it to your OH. But it sounds like he's calming down and realising that most of it is his fault.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

ll be provocative (flak jacket on, tin hat, dig trench, take cover)

What do you expect from a dog (let alone a pup)?

If you want no noise and no mess/no chewing maybe a different dog would be best?

Batteries not included


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Someone has probably already said it, but what about door sealants and leaving music on a little bit louder than you would have the TV?

I can't leave my dogs without the TV on, they just howl otherwise.

I also got door sealant strips to help block out noises of kids/ice cream van (I have the same problem!)/cars revving/etc. Even a draught excluder may help a bit, anything to dull down the noise from outside.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Glad thngs are looking up and also that OH is seeing sense. The good thing about the ice cream van is it won't be around much longer as winter takes hold, perhaps every now and then but scarce. 

My Mals are highly reactive to sirens, no matter how far in the distance and just group howl because each makes the other more determined. Awful when people here are sleeping from night shifts!
That's one reason I buy all my close neighbours Christmas cards and deliver them when out with Flynn. With dog that make a racket like that I need all the ally's I can get!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

leannelatty said:


> Don't do that!!! I've got to walk him at 5am as of Monday and don't want snow to face too!!!


Oh my, 5am!!!:yikes:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

tashax said:


> Your Oh would have ripped his hair out and left if he was at my house when i lived in my old house. One of my dogs jumped up and dead bolted the front door (yale lock) the proceeded to rip up my living room carpet, whilst i had someone drill through my locks. Got in the house and the carpet near the door was down to concrete, a 17kilo sack of food was ripped open and was all over the house. My pine wooden doors had scratches in them that were so deep i couldnt sand them out. Then a couple of weeks later they ripped the dining room door off its hinges (yep they did) to get up the stairs where one of them proceed to rip the stair carpets up and the other a bedroom carpet. Cooker knobs chewed off, washer knobs chewed off. One knicked clothes out the wash basket and chewed them up Then to top it off one of them actually chewed my round back door handle off, so i couldnt open the door for 3 days  now that to me was all pretty much standard damage, they were all bar 2 of them around 11-19 months old. The damage i just described all happened in 2 weeks. I had a huge pantry that was in the dining room, i had a window put in to it, covered it in blanket and toys and one went in there, then i went and bought 3 crates and the 4 juveniles were crated or put away where the couldnt cause damage(weirdly all the boys) the 2 girls were left out and i never had any more damage to the house.
> 
> I would have a very serious converstion with your OH, i am sorry to say it but no one would ever be able to say 'it's me or the dog' to me as i wouldnt give them the chance.


I am sorry but if my dogs did that I would blame myself and look long and hard at how I was keeping them. If I could not change their management I would rehome them to someone that could. That is not pet owning, it is totally out of control dogs taking over your life.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am sorry but if my dogs did that I would blame myself and look long and hard at how I was keeping them. If I could not change their management I would rehome them to someone that could. That is not pet owning, it is totally out of control dogs taking over your life.


Its a good job im not you then


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> That's blaming the dog though.
> 
> You're saying he couldn't be trusted to behave himself, so had to be crated to pevent this happening when other simple methods of teaching a young dog/puppy respect could have been applied. There's too much 'chuck 'em in a cage and that'll solve the problem' going on here
> 
> So, yes, lazy.


Mmm....no.
I have crate trained my dobe from 8 weeks. Any time I cannot watch him, he is crated. And so far, he is actually very good in the house with chewing. He has never destroyed tables, skirting boards, treasured posessions and so on, because I have never left him alone to _get into that habit_.

You say you teach a young puppy, but if you are not there and the dog is not crated, and he starts to have a chew and no-one is there to tell him not to, he'll soon learn he can get away with it as long as you're not there.

I think it can be an issue with young pups are NOT crated, and are left alone with the ability to chew such things. They get into the habit of chewing things like floors and walls, because when they're alone, there is no-one there to correct them for it.
When dres is alone, he is crated so he _cannot_ do these things. As such, its never been in his 'routine' to do so. If I'd not crated him, and had left him alone even in a bare room, he could well have gotten into the habit of chewing the floors, or walls, or skirting boards, and as no-one would be there to tell him not to, it'd become a learned behaviour.

This is just one of the reasons I will crate any puppy I have in the future. Not allowing a puppy to practise a behaviour in the first place is invaluable, I think. 
Dobes are also a mouth orientated breed and love to chew, but Dres only really chews _his_ things, rarely my things and rarely if ever the house.
And Im convinced this is because I have never allowed him free reign to do so by leaving him uncrated when Im not there.

A crated dog cannot destroy a house. If he cannot practise destroying stairs, floorboards, skirting boards, from a young age, it's less likely to be something he wants to do more of later.

I cannot respect the opinion of anyone who thinks a crate is a 'lazy' or 'easy way out' tool. It isn't. I'd rather my pup be crated when Im not there to guide him rather than have him learn to chew what he wants when Im not around, and possibly end up in the emergency room with a blockage.
And hey, I have a pup who doesn't destroy my house, so it must have worked, eh?


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> You talk about crate training as some sort of great achievement.


I don't think anyone has done that; its simply a tool to keep a puppy safe when he can't be watched, and ensure bad habits do not form. A choice between a crate or a puppy with a blockage should, I would assume, be easy.
I assume you've never used a crate, like most anti-crate people, or else had a dog that didn't get on with it, thus shaping your view. My dog loves his crate. He'll remain in with the door open, even when Im inviting him out.

I mean, why should I bother with a lead? Thats restricting my dog, Im sure he'd rather not have a lead on. 
Sod if it keeps him safe and teaches him how to behave outside, he should get nothing but complete freedom to do what he wants, when he wants 

Oh never mind. Come back when you've owned a high drive, working line doberman pup and tell me again how lazy and unecessary crates are


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## Americancockerxtoypoodle (Nov 17, 2010)

I know of a fabulous lady from Great Baddow who is a dog walker/sitter, she has them at her house and walks them twice a day, full day £10!! So there are people around who do it for the love of the dogs and not the money! She started as her neighbours were leaving their dogs crated from 7til7 and she told them they either let her walk and care for it While theyr out or she reports them!!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Americancockerxtoypoodle said:


> I know of a fabulous lady from Great Baddow who is a dog walker/sitter, she has them at her house and walks them twice a day, full day £10!! So there are people around who do it for the love of the dogs and not the money! She started as her neighbours were leaving their dogs crated from 7til7 and she told them they either let her walk and care for it While theyr out or she reports them!!


But £10 a day 5 days a week works out at roughly £200 a month. A lot of people just don't have that sort of money to spare.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Americancockerxtoypoodle said:


> I know of a fabulous lady from Great Baddow who is a dog walker/sitter, she has them at her house and walks them twice a day, full day £10!! So there are people around who do it for the love of the dogs and not the money! She started as her neighbours were leaving their dogs crated from 7til7 and she told them they either let her walk and care for it While theyr out or she reports them!!


Oooh could you PM me her number or email address please? I could maybe stretch to taking him there 2-3 times a week


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## bornunder (May 4, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> Oooh could you PM me her number or email address please? I could maybe stretch to taking him there 2-3 times a week


Hiya, do you mind me asking a few questions?

1. what breed of pup, sorry if this has already been said? 
2. How old? 
3. Where abouts in the UK are you?

I had a Husky and a Lab who between them used tear the house to bits when left despite lots of walks and toys etc.

On their list of eaten things are 1 entire 3 piece suite which they ate and the bits they could not eat they pooed and peed on. My mattress which they destuffed from the underneath, hundreds of pounds worth of clothes and electrics and their party piece a window sill leaving the UPVC window and glazing with a 2 inch gap underneath it because they ate the entire wooden sill.

I went to a behaviourist who taught me some really good ways of dealing with their seperation anxiety and training them to accept being crated etc. I'd love to help and pass on the tips. x


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

tashax said:


> Your Oh would have ripped his hair out and left if he was at my house when i lived in my old house. One of my dogs jumped up and dead bolted the front door (yale lock) the proceeded to rip up my living room carpet, whilst i had someone drill through my locks. Got in the house and the carpet near the door was down to concrete, a 17kilo sack of food was ripped open and was all over the house. My pine wooden doors had scratches in them that were so deep i couldnt sand them out. Then a couple of weeks later they ripped the dining room door off its hinges (yep they did) to get up the stairs where one of them proceed to rip the stair carpets up and the other a bedroom carpet. Cooker knobs chewed off, washer knobs chewed off. One knicked clothes out the wash basket and chewed them up Then to top it off one of them actually chewed my round back door handle off, so i couldnt open the door for 3 days  now that to me was all pretty much standard damage, they were all bar 2 of them around 11-19 months old. The damage i just described all happened in 2 weeks. I had a huge pantry that was in the dining room, i had a window put in to it, covered it in blanket and toys and one went in there, then i went and bought 3 crates and the 4 juveniles were crated or put away where the couldnt cause damage(weirdly all the boys) the 2 girls were left out and i never had any more damage to the house.
> 
> I would have a very serious converstion with your OH, i am sorry to say it but no one would ever be able to say 'it's me or the dog' to me as i wouldnt give them the chance.


:yikes: Thank God for crates! My OH would have kicked me and the dogs out!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

All these posts about OH's and how they react to this that and the other, I am very glad I don't have one of those.

Sounds like the lady who charges £10 per day and lives close by is going to be a good bet if she has any room. I hope it works out.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> All these posts about OH's and how they react to this that and the other, I am very glad I don't have one of those.


Mine admits he gets really angry when Spens chewed something and wants to really lay into him verbally but he walks away and leaves me to deal with it. I think he knows what the answer would be if he gave me the "me or the dog" ultimatum. He even made sure he proposed to me AND Rupert :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> All these posts about OH's and how they react to this that and the other, I am very glad I don't have one of those.


Theyre not all like that.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> All these posts about OH's and how they react to this that and the other, I am very glad I don't have one of those.
> 
> Sounds like the lady who charges £10 per day and lives close by is going to be a good bet if she has any room. I hope it works out.


Going out with a mad dog lady my OH accepts my dogs as part of me...luckily for me hes a mad dog man, so it can work out fine if youre both a tad barmy...


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

bornunder said:


> Hiya, do you mind me asking a few questions?
> 
> 1. what breed of pup, sorry if this has already been said?
> 2. How old?
> ...


Hiya, basil is a lab and was 1 in August and we live in village just outside of Chelmsford Essex. I'd love to hear the tips you got from the behaviourist  he's been much better since we've got the locks on the doors and seemed very happy on Friday when I got home even though OH had been home for a while.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> Hiya, basil is a lab and was 1 in August and we live in village just outside of Chelmsford Essex. I'd love to hear the tips you got from the behaviourist  he's been much better since we've got the locks on the doors and seemed very happy on Friday when I got home even though OH had been home for a while.


Glad things are going better. :thumbsup:


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## Lisaj (Feb 4, 2011)

Pleased you seem to have it under control now. Well done!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> Hiya, basil is a lab and was 1 in August and we live in village just outside of Chelmsford Essex. I'd love to hear the tips you got from the behaviourist  he's been much better since we've got the locks on the doors and seemed very happy on Friday when I got home even though OH had been home for a while.


Our behaviourist works in Cambridge and Chelmsford. I mention her on Molly's blog if you want to see what she's done for us (see sig for link), if you ever want her details then do pm me.


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