# Candy's dominance and aggression



## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

Okay, following on from the cat love-in earlier this week (our last attempt at getting them together 'naturally' which seemed to have worked) I watched Candy and Molly carefully yesterday and Candy isn't trying to play with Molly at all - it's all out aggression. :frown:

At one point she had Molly cornered and every time Molly tried to creep past candy went for her again. Poor Molly was tip-toeing past Candy and giving all the submission body language and Candy was just relentless in following her from room to room and attacking her, even in her cat room sanctuary. This lasted for about half an hour off and on although there was lots of other dominance stuff from Candy (blocking doorways and halls, for example) but the cornering was the last straw.

So no more in the house together, I'm still waiting for the feliway, and we've swapped the cats over so Candy is having time in the cat room and Molly is in the house. This is partly so we can get to know Molly better and she's been really chilled, sleeping and 'dancing' (she goes up on her hind legs for food) and watching the birds.

The behviourist in the US that I've been talking to thinks crating is too late now. So we now have two options: rehome one (I know many of you think I say this whenever something goes wrong but so many behaviour books and websites say this sometimes is kinder for both cats and that is my only concern) or get in a behaviourist. 

Anyway, my question is, can something be done about Candy's aggression towards Molly? I really think Candy's intention is to hassle Molly to the point where she leaves.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Why don't you try the behaviourist first? Do some research and get a good one that has formal training (i.e. not one of the "fortune-telling" types, if you know what I mean). Your local vet would be able to recommend one. I got one in for my cats and it really worked wonders. S/he can give you an objective viewpoint of the relationship between your cats and what sets them off. Because she comes to your home and sees your setup, she will be able to have a better idea of how to help you, better than PF can. Remember, you are upset and very emotionally involved at this stage.
Give it a try.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Totally agree with Koeke. It is definitely worth a try before considering rehoming x


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

My main concern is what would make the cats happy, not what makes me happy. :frown:

I'm still not convinced that forcing them to live together is in their best interests, when they could be happier living separately with no stress and competition.

But I'm prepared to give it a try if people have seen this level of aggression and managed to sort it out.


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## HelloKittyHannah (Nov 18, 2010)

My take on this is that it's still really early days. Their routine keeps changing where you keep trying to get them to get on better, one in the cat room one day and the other in the cat room another day. Their day to day life has no routine, they need to get used to living with you before they get used to living with eachother, and they can't get used to it if nothing stays the same.
I just can't see how this will ever work for you if you keep separating them. If nothing MAJOR has happened to make you fear for their safety then I'd let them get on with it as much as possible tbh.


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> My take on this is that it's still really early days. Their routine keeps changing where you keep trying to get them to get on better, one in the cat room one day and the other in the cat room another day. Their day to day life has no routine, they need to get used to living with you before they get used to living with eachother, and they can't get used to it if nothing stays the same.
> I just can't see how this will ever work for you if you keep separating them. If nothing MAJOR has happened to make you fear for their safety then I'd let them get on with it as much as possible tbh.


Yesterday I did fear for Molly's safety otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I had to check her over to make sure she didn't have any wounds because I wasn't sure if Candy had managed to bite her.

Yes, it is early days and I take your point about the routine. I'm trying to follow the advice I've been given, one of which is to swap them over to mix the scents up etc. And how can Molly settle in and get to know us if she's always shut away? And I am very confused as to whether to go back to square one or just let them sort it out themselves.

Koek and Kiwi, thank you. Cost may be an issue with a behaviourist at the moment, we've just had an unexpected £740 bill for heating oil and I'm not working. The feliway cost £60 and a behaviourist is about £120. :frown:


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

troublecat said:


> My main concern is what would make the cats happy, not what makes me happy. :frown:
> 
> I'm still not convinced that forcing them to live together is in their best interests, when they could be happier living separately with no stress and competition.
> 
> *But I'm prepared to give it a try if people have seen this level of aggression and managed to sort it out*.


Just to clarify - I haven't witnessed this level of aggression between housemates which is why I think the beviourist is a good idea. I wouldn't want you to make a decision based on a misconception about (this) peep's expertise  There are a lot more experienced people on here, so *BUMP*

My sisters two (male) cats are behaving similarly but they have just moved house, although they used to get on fine. From the way Molly behaved when she was alone with you, it just seems a shame to rehome Molly if there is a way to bring Candy around. If the behaviourist fails, then at least you will have no doubt that you had no other option but to rehome. Otherwise you might always wonder...


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

troublecat said:


> Yesterday I did fear for Molly's safety otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I had to check her over to make sure she didn't have any wounds because I wasn't sure if Candy had managed to bite her.
> 
> Yes, it is early days and I take your point about the routine. I'm trying to follow the advice I've been given, one of which is to swap them over to mix the scents up etc. And how can Molly settle in and get to know us if she's always shut away? And I am very confused as to whether to go back to square one or just let them sort it out themselves.
> 
> Koek and Kiwi, thank you. Cost may be an issue with a behaviourist at the moment, we've just had an unexpected £740 bill for heating oil and I'm not working. The feliway cost £60 and a behaviourist is about £120. :frown:


How did feliway cost £60 The most I 've ever spent on it is £22 :scared:I have to agree that you will never sort the problems out until you have a routine for them and stick to it.Doing one thing,then another just confuses them.I had a behaviourist come to the house,in all it was approx 2hr consult cost £80 she came recommended by my vet and pointed out many things that I would never have realised.The longer this goes on the harder it is going to be to sort it out.


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

Buffie, I needed 3 feliways plug-ins - I was told on here to get one up, one down, plus the cat room is in an annexe accesible through our utility room. £120 is the fees of the nearest behaviourist I can find to us on the net and the next nearest is £150, although I accept the vet may know someone else if his fees are anything to go by I'm not holding my breath.

Thanks, Kiwi and Buffie for your suggestions. I know this is dragging on too long. :frown:


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

troublecat said:


> Buffie, I needed 3 feliways plug-ins - I was told on here to get one up, one down, plus the cat room is in an annexe accesible through our utility room. £120 is the fees of the nearest behaviourist I can find to us on the net and the next nearest is £150, although I accept the vet may know someone else if his fees are anything to go by I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> Thanks, Kiwi and Buffie for your suggestions. I know this is dragging on too long. :frown:


Wasnt aware you were advised to buy 3 difussers that to me seems a bit OTT.Please dont go with a behaviourist who does not come with recommendations,your vets fee's should have nothing to do with those of a behaviourist.My vet practice is by no means one of the cheapest in my area but the behaviourist although recommended by the vet does not work for them.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you spoken to the vet about Zylkene? I can't remember from your posts now.

Description from Amazon
"Zylkene is a natural product derived from milk proteins that has been proven to help your cat or dog cope in times of stress and adapt to change 
Can be used for short periods or continuously if needed. 
No side effects have been associated with the use of Zylkene and it can be given with other products. 
It is a food supplement made from a protein found in milk (the same molecule that helps babies relax after a milk feed)"

My dog is currently taking this as she has a few 'issues' & this has really helped her.

You can get this from your vet or order online (which is cheaper)


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't think you need more than one feliway - just keep it in the sitting room or the main area where the cats interact. You can always move it into just Molly's space if necessary x


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

The feliways are on their way now. I was advised one up, one down on here and I chose to add the third because our house is quite big with high ceilings and I don't see the nice stuff reaching the annexe. Our vet charges £33 so we've still got a good deal.

Cleo, thank you, it looks like we will be going to the vet anyway so I can ask him then about it. 

Now that Molly's out and about I've noticed she feels very bony in comparison to Candy. She eats like a horse. I guess worms would be the obvious issue but she's been wormed and has been with the RSPCA for months before coming here where she'd been an indoor cat.


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## catsmum (Feb 4, 2011)

troublecat said:


> The behviourist in the US that I've been talking to thinks crating is too late now.


reputable behaviourists successfully use crating techniques with cats who have been together far longer than yours have

i dont see how a behaviourist who hasnt even seen the cats can rule out crating

a good behaviourist would never rule out one of the most valubale aids without trying it first, and would never rule anything out without seeing the cats interact

i agree with the others about finding a good behaviourist


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

Okay, the feliway is here and plugged in.

We had an issue last night, we've discovered that Molly has been using the corner of the shower room as a litter tray - only twice, but it seems to be associated with both trays having Candy's scent on them.

I let Molly have 10 minutes' supervised in teh garden which turned into half an hour unsupervised after she squuzed under the fence. She came back for breakfast but is now glued to the door in the hope she'll be let out again.

OH and I have talked but we can't afford a behaviourist at the moment.


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## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

troublecat said:


> I let Molly have 10 minutes' supervised in teh garden which turned into half an hour unsupervised after she squuzed under the fence. She came back for breakfast but is now glued to the door in the hope she'll be let out again.


Why not let her out then? As I have said before, once they can go out, they may find better ways to occupy themselves than to bother each other and there are more places for Molly to 'escape" if she needs to.

Are they both going out? I recall they are both adult and have been indoors for plenty long enough to know where their home is and to go out and be trusted to come home again. 10 minutes outside is no time: your cats need to go outside, I recall you saying that there were plenty of fields around your home.

I know that your heart is in the right place, but honestly, in terms of time, it has not been such a long time that this has been going on and you need to allow them more time and space. Do you not think that your anxiety is also rubbing off on them?


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