# can i keep a male and female together.....



## stephaphonic (Nov 24, 2011)

i have a male shih tzu but wish to get a female with the intention of breeding them before spaying her, can i keep them in seprate rooms whilst the female is in heat until i wish to breed them or will this affect the males temperment


----------



## sarelis (Aug 29, 2011)

Hi, I can imagine that it would affect his temperament quite a lot! Dogs can pick up the scent of an in season bitch from some distance, keeping her in a shut room in the same house is not going to fool him!

*withdraws to a safe distance before this thread gets heated*


----------



## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

Male dogs can smell a female in season from a long way off!, he will know she is there and in all honesty its not fair and it will drive him bonkers! 

*withdraws and sits with Sarelis*


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

My collie used to be a pain in the backside if there was a bitch in season in the area. Never went off his food or tried to escape but he'd be outside sniffing the air constantly. And the bitch could be several blocks away!

Room on the bench for another? Can I bribe you with cookies if not?


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I suggest you may need to a lot of research before making that kind of decision, there are a few very knowledgeable people on here who would be able to answer any queries, but it's not a case of just having one dog & buying a dog of the opposite sex & making puppies, there's much much more to consider
*joins sarelis & Lisa & hands out popcorn*


----------



## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

I have no experience with breeding but I think it would be very unfair to do this on both dogs. People must do it but I am not sure how and maybe somebody will be able to give personal experience. Please be warned people here feel very strongly about ethical breeding and there have been many threads on similar subjects. Please consider _why_ you are thinking of breeding and the dangers involved.

*withdraws with hard hat on*


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes, it is more than possible to keep entire dogs and bitches together in the same house, takes a bit of work when needing to seperate them and more than a litlte patience to put up with howling males, but it is possible and happens up and down the country. A male that has been to stud even just once can change, my boys are both much more 'up on their toes' and I know they would fight another male for the 'rights' to an in-season bitch. 

Your comment on breeding though, here we go again..........................


----------



## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

It can be done, but it isn't easy! Some dogs will pine, not eat and howl/bark through the whole of the bitches season, which could be 3 weeks! You won't know what your dog will be like until it's too late! You might have to send your dog to stay with someone else or to kennels.

The other thing is your dog and bitch might not suit each other for breeding. You won't know until all health tests have been done and she is fully mature. Also some dogs won't mate a bitch they live with.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> *Yes, it is more than possible to keep entire dogs and bitches together in the same house, takes a bit of work when needing to seperate them and more than a litlte patience to put up with howling males, but it is possible and happens up and down the country*. A male that has been to stud even just once can change, my boys are both much more 'up on their toes' and I know they would fight another male for the 'rights' to an in-season bitch.
> 
> Your comment on breeding though, here we go again..........................


I'll second this, 3 weeks or so of a determined male howling & whining & all the 'fun' of keeping them separate while the girls were in season, this was before Bob was old enough to be neutered & it was tough


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

stephaphonic said:


> i have a male shih tzu but wish to get a female with the intention of breeding them before spaying her, can i keep them in seprate rooms whilst the female is in heat until i wish to breed them or will this affect the males temperment


A Dog can be sent loopy by a bitch in season from good distances away, and it can really effect their behaviour. A female doesnt even need to be present,
a male dog knows from the scent left in a bitches urine. Male dogs will suddenly fight other dogs they are usually fine with if a bitch in seasons about, or they even get a scent. I know severl males who are models of obdience, bitch just in the area on heat, they have to be kept on a lead as they will take off and wander, ones have jumped fences to get to an in season bitch. So you can imagine what two on the same property will do.
It can really effect their temprements after too, one fellow dog walker I know an ex dog of hers escaped and mated with a bitch, and he was a forever pain in the backside after humping every dog in sight and his general temprement changed she said too.

I would also think very long and hard perhaps about breeding in general, its not what its cracked up to be, and can be stressful, time consuming, messy and very expensive. Plus if you dont know what your doing it can result in the death of the bitch and pups. Also there are so many puppies and dogs in breed rescues, dogs homes etc now, (most are so full they have a waiting list unless dire emergencies) Its amazing too that the rescues are now full of pedigrees as well as the cross breeds and mongrels dogs homes and shelters were always associated with in the past.

Im sure if you do go ahead you will go into it responsibly, but some people dont think it through properly.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I'll second this, 3 weeks or so of a determined male howling & whining & all the 'fun' of keeping them separate while the girls were in season, this was before Bob was old enough to be neutered & it was tough


Yes, my boys aernt too bad, Magnum has learnt from his daddy that the bitch is only ready for a few days and both him and Blue will only howl persistently on those days, lol! But it really does feel like forever at the time 

And of course, I have to keep the boys seperate too, as Blue sees Cleo as his personal property and if Magnum went near her,even in a crate, Blue would be putting him in his place and a fight would break out!


----------



## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I'll second this, 3 weeks or so of a determined male howling & whining & all the 'fun' of keeping them separate while the girls were in season, this was before Bob was old enough to be neutered & it was tough


Me too, I had 'fun' trying to keep a Bernese Mountain dog and Newfoundland seperate!...the usually very, very obedient Newfoundland completely lost it and really became a different dog, trying to fight him away from her was no easy task!!, it all seemed very unfair to him too as I could see it was driving him insane being near her.
So I gave up after about 2 days and my sister had to take one of them to hers until her season finished and peace was restored


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

stephaphonic said:


> i have a male shih tzu but wish to get a female with the intention of breeding them before spaying her, can i keep them in seprate rooms whilst the female is in heat until i wish to breed them or will this affect the males temperment


Jusst also realised you have the male and are thinking of getting a female, assuming you are going for a pup, she will probably have to be around two before you can mate her, before then she will be too immature both physically and mentally to whelp and raise pups. That will mean then as they usually come into season from 6mths old and have two seasons a year (or most do) That you are going to have to suffer 2 years and probably 4 deasons before you can mate her.


----------



## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

I have 2 bitches at home and another breeder opporsite me also has a bitch, The entire road knows when any of them are in season as the newfoundland dog up the road howls and howls! Luckily our neighbours are very understanding 

Anyway my point is that he is 5 houses away and still goes mad.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I used to Dettol everywhere when Kali was in season, I have two separate gardens so as he couldn't smell her wee and make him more agitated and for the whole three weeks they never even saw each other, used to close the kitchen door when either went in the garden so as they didn't see each other pass by and they never went in a room the other would go in. All this and poor Marty, although very good and not nasty to any of the other dogs or us, would howl during the day, amazingly though slept soundly all night.

This worked quite well til someone else "looked after" them a couple of days during one season. Then we had pups - both parents at that time not health tested. I kept one and he went on to have severe Hip Dysplasia. At the young age of two had his first hip replacement and eight months later had the second.
I saw my boy go through what no one would want a dog they love go through and all because his mum and dad weren't health tested before they bred. At one point I could have lost him  and don't know how I would have coped with that!

So please before you breed from your lil guys at least have the tests done relevant to their breed because once they are born there's no going back and it's not you who will suffer, ultimately it's your darling pups and believe me it's a most heart breaking situation to be in as a caring owner - whether it's you or someone you sold a pup to!


----------



## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

It is possible to keep them seperate, i have a friend that keeps her bitch on the stairs/hallway/bedrooms whilst she is season and her boys in the living room/kitchen. She takes the bitch out front for the toilet so that she never ever comes in contact with the boys. I personally wouldnt do it as it drives the poor boys mental and i wouldnt be able to put up with the noise. If you want to breed your male why not stud him??


----------



## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

if you really want to get a female why not have the dog castrated ?? and if and when the bitch is of quality to mate and has had all the relevant breed health tests done , do your research and find a decent experienced health tested dog. Saves a lot of hastle and avoids any mistakes !


----------



## stephaphonic (Nov 24, 2011)

i'm researching it at the mo and consider all options available, even castrating the male won't make much difference though either as he'll still be affected by the Bitch in heat anyway.

as i have already stated i have every intention of spaying the bitch after i have bred her anyhow, my reasons for breeding her are irrelevant. main reason i ask is that i obviously won't want to breed her until she is mature enough to do so therefore the male and female will be in the same house for at least 3 heats. 

i have a friend that may be able to take one for the heat period if i do decide to go ahead and get a female.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Chicken soup anyone?


----------



## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I've got 5 entire girls and 2 entire boys and yes, it is perfectly possible to keep them in the same home - my boys are fine except when the girls are ready for mating, when they can be a real pain in the backside - luckily this is only a few days with each girl so not too bad - and friends who also have entire dogs and bitches have the same problem - it's certainly not for the whole duration of the season - if it was then it might be a different story.

You will need crates / possible kennels - baby gates are no good - you need the capacity to move the dogs around and ensure they all get plenty of free running out of the way of each other.

I took an in season bitch for an eye test yesterday with my boy - didn't have any problems with him at all.

It can change their temperament sometimes, but it probably varies from dog to dog, and could just be 'dog on dog aggression - but there are many others where it doesn't change them at all 

You ALWAYS need to be prepared for the fact that accidents can and do happen - if your dogs are all health tested then probably not the end of the world - but if they are not, or the bitch is too young etc - then you have to take appropriate steps to terminate the pregnancy.

You also have to be prepared for the fact that accidental matings could result in injuries to the dog and / or bitch - which could be serious injuries which could result in death or expensive problems which won't be covered by any insurance policy. 

You also have to be prepared for the fact that matings can go totally un-noticed until it is too late.

-------------------------------------------

However - having said all the above - why do you "want to get a bitch to take a litter from" and then have her spayed?

What research have you done in the breed? how do you know that the dog you have will be compatible with her on paper, physically and health test result wise?

Are you familiar with the breed standard? do you show your dog to know what a good / bad example of the breed is? will you be able to identify your dogs and bitches faults and know whether they could complement each other, or whether you would be better going out to an outside stud dog?

Keeping entire dogs and bitches together can be done - it can be a right royal PITA at times - you have to be humble enough to recognise that accidents can and do happen, I am not arrogant enough to believe they won't / can't - a slip mating can happen in seconds and can also go un-noticed. 

What's more important is, it's not as simple as just buying a dog and bitch and putting them together when the time is right.

Would you then stud your dog out? What knowledge can you pass on to bitch owners? yesterday. I took a bitch for eye testing because her owner couldn't make it - maybe I did go beyond the call of duty, but it's not as simple as "bring the bitch around, get your money, end of conversation" and I like to have the confidence of the bitch owner, and that even includes (with the agreement of the bitch owner) having an alternative suitable stud dog with another owner on standby in case needed.

===============

I know someone whose dog got to her bitch - all credit to the owner, she had the full complement of health tests done post mating and thankfully everything was OK - she then had the dog neutered at the same time, but he'd 'had a taste' and she said even now, when her girl(s) are in season, there is a wicked gleam in his eye - as even neutered dogs can mate and tie with an inseason bitch.


----------



## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

swarthy said:


> I've got 5 entire girls and 2 entire boys and yes, it is perfectly possible to keep them in the same home - my boys are fine except when the girls are ready for mating, when they can be a real pain in the backside - luckily this is only a few days with each girl so not too bad - and friends who also have entire dogs and bitches have the same problem - it's certainly not for the whole duration of the season - if it was then it might be a different story.
> 
> You will need crates / possible kennels - baby gates are no good - you need the capacity to move the dogs around and ensure they all get plenty of free running out of the way of each other.
> 
> ...


Great post Swarthy x


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

stephaphonic said:


> i'm researching it at the mo and consider all options available, even castrating the male won't make much difference though either as he'll still be affected by the Bitch in heat anyway.
> 
> as i have already stated i have every intention of spaying the bitch after i have bred her anyhow, my reasons for breeding her are irrelevant. main reason i ask is that i obviously won't want to breed her until she is mature enough to do so therefore the male and female will be in the same house for at least 3 heats.
> 
> i have a friend that may be able to take one for the heat period if i do decide to go ahead and get a female.


Forgive me for saying, but as you've posted in the breeding section, your reasons for wanting to breed are very relevant. There are so many dogs being bred, and so many being put to sleep because people aren't breeding for the right reason(s), that's without going into health tests, proven conformation and temperament etc.

I would advise you keep away from any thoughts of breeding until you have done a good amount of research into it. I've got good friends who have been breeding dogs for numerous years, supposedly easy whelping breeds, and have had many heart breaking experiences. They keep entire dogs/bitches together, and any real accidents are rare, one of those incidents off the top of my head ended up nearly losing the bitch, and losing the entire litter, having to listen to each puppy scream and die whilst having the worry of the bitch fading before their eyes. I'm sorry if that seems negative, but this breeding thing is not a throwaway comment, it can bring new life into the world, but it can also deal some very cruel blows, I know from personal experience.


----------



## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

bellababy said:


> I have 2 bitches at home and another breeder opporsite me also has a bitch, The entire road knows when any of them are in season as the newfoundland dog up the road howls and howls! Luckily our neighbours are very understanding
> 
> Anyway my point is that he is 5 houses away and still goes mad.


To be honest - basd on my own (and others) experiences of having entire dogs and bitches living in the same house, this is probably because the dog is not exposed to girlies in season.

Even relatively inexperienced stud dogs living with bitches seem to learn very quickly when the girls are ready for mating - and it's only really then they start to get to be a pain - that includes my 3 year old and my 14 month old - they've been exposed to it since they were babies.

If I wanted to, I could quite easily run them side by side in season providing they are not 'ready' - I don't - but I have had cause to carry them in the same car with one in a crate blocked off by a closed crate so they can't get to each other and even then, not had as much as a whimper.

I even had someone else's in season bitch in my car this week with no problems at all - I am more likely to get problems with my girls getting in the car if they realise another in season bitch has been in there.

We have around 14 dogs (girls and boys) living between here and adjacent houses and apart from one noisy b*ggar dog who barks ALL the time, season times are absolutely no different to any other time.


----------



## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

swarthy said:


> To be honest - basd on my own (and others) experiences of having entire dogs and bitches living in the same house, this is probably because the dog is not exposed to girlies in season.
> 
> Even relatively inexperienced stud dogs living with bitches seem to learn very quickly when the girls are ready for mating - and it's only really then they start to get to be a pain - that includes my 3 year old and my 14 month old - they've been exposed to it since they were babies.
> 
> ...


Your right there, he never has been put to stud and he is the only dog in their household.

Cant say I can compare the behaviour to any other dogs whilst they are in season as I only ever walk them in my mums large garden at these times.

The newfies owner said he is a bit of a doughnut so I may not be describing the best example 

The stud I used last time was the only male amongst 5 bitches, I find it fascinating that he actually let's his owner know usually a day or two before the season begins!


----------

