# BYB.....My kitten



## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Asking for advise please.

Before i knew about EN i have just found out one of my kittens sold last year under contract as a pet only has had kittens with a friends moggy.

Now i can enforce spay on this pet from me via the contract, but now kittens are born i am not too sure where i stand on this.

Spoken to the owner of my pet, she is extremely sorry and will have my pet sold spayed.

Of course, she is advertising kittens as mc's, but they are actually cross mc's with the male being a moggy.

Any ideas on how to play this, via contract as ive said i can enforce spay from the girl i sold but have no contract on kittens born.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

That is so sad and upsetting for you too, we all trust our kittens new mummys that they will spay the kittens sold as pets.

I really don't know where you stand even with the contract, we all write them but can we really do anything unless the contract is legally binding with a solicitor?

How much is she selling these little cross breeds for? She is so wrong to be advertising them as MC too. 

You must be so disappointed with this lady for allowing this to happen. 

I know some breeders neuter/spay before they leave home to stop this but we have to have some trust don't we?...after all if we don't trust the new owners we shouldn't be letting them have a kitten. 

I hope the girl bought from you will now be spayed, maybe you could contact CAB to find out where you stand? 

All the best


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Pets4homes are fantastic and have been so helpful and prompt with their reply to me, they have disabled the advert and emailed the owner stating for them to contact me. I really am greatful to pets4homes for taking action and acting fast regarding this.

The owner has contacted me, my female sold is now being spayed and kittens will not leave with my pedigree certificate.

The owner is very sorry.

All kittens that leave me now are EN, i didnt know about EN until i joined the forum but we all learn at some point.

Big thankyou to pets4homes though, :thumbup:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Not sure what you can do about the kittens - I suppose you could confiscate??? But what ever she does need to make sure they aren't sold as full MCs, she told me the dad was registered!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Just found her on Gumtree (hasn't taken that ad down) I would reclaim your girl CC. I don't believe a word she is saying. Tell her that you will give her whatever you can sell her for as a neutered older girl after expenses (i.e. spay and care until a new home found). She also hasn't emailed me to tell me they aren't available after all.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

That must be so annoying for you. It makes me mad:mad2: to think that they, in my eyes, have blatantly lied to you when they have purchased a kitten. Has she lied again saying that the girl will be spayed.

I have been in touch with all the breeders that I got my cats off, to prove to them that I have had them spayed and neutered , even the bliddy BYB that I got Milly and Tilly off. In have Henry's and Olso's breeder as Facebook friends.

Really feel for you CC, but I don't know if they is anything more you can do to stop her.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

She phoned me this morning after pets4homes disabled her advert to say she will now have the female spayed.

I can enforce spay via contract but i cant do anything regarding kittens except to say my pedigree certificate is not given to new owners.

There is nothing i can do to prevent sale of the kittens born, not that i am aware of.

I have just reported her advert to gumtree stating court proceedings in action so hope they remove the advert, knowing gumtree though i dont expect any results there.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> That must be so annoying for you. It makes me mad:mad2: to think that they, in my eyes, have blatantly lied to you when they have purchased a kitten. Has she lied again saying that the girl will be spayed.
> 
> I have been in touch with all the breeders that I got my cats off, to prove to them that I have had them spayed and neutered , even the bliddy BYB that I got Milly and Tilly off. In have Henry's and Olso's breeder as Facebook friends.
> 
> Really feel for you CC, but I don't know if they is anything more you can do to stop her.


I completely agree with this, it's easy to say sorry but why wasn't the cat neutered???? I also let N & C's breeders know when they were neutered. If she is lying about the sire being a pedigree and attempting to sell the kittens as a full ped (for how much?) then she could just as easily be lying about being sorry.

Catcoonz did she contact you herself to tell you that this had happened or get caught trying to sell them?

Thank goodness you won't have to worry about this happening with any of your future kittens.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Can you take the girl back?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Contract only states sold as pet only, enforcement though court if fails to spay, so guess i can only enforce spaying and not reclaim but i can try.

She got caught, i found her advert on pets4homes so spid enquired for me to see who mum was, where spid was then given a copy of the pedigree for my girl.

pets4homes told her to contact me regarding this matter which she did and she told me she used her friends cat so these are crosses being sold for £250 each, said one of the kittens was going to her mums but dont worry the moggy is now neutered, yep right i dont believe that.

Im going to email her now and say i will have the girl spayed myself which she can pay for, otherwise i will be collecting her.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I think you would only be able to enforce a spay but have no claim on the kittens  Very sad situation but it must happen all too frequently or there would be no bybs breeding half pedigrees :frown2:


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Wish i knew about EN before, one good thing is i know about EN now so can protect future kittens.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

What *exactly* are your contract terms?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Don't believe a bloody word she says . I would get the girl back but don't know how you stand with your contract ... Did you chase her for proof of spay ?.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ohhhh this is awful 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at what people will do now but ..... still am


I know when I got Maisie (who was being retired from breeding), I'd been in touch with her breeder for several weeks (email & then several phone conversations) before going to meet them. I said right at the start that any dog would be neutered as soon as I got him/her


Maisie came to me the day after the last of her pups went to their new homes - I had to wait a few weeks before she could be spayed (as b*tches need to be done around 1/2 way between seasons) and I emailed her that night (a) because I wanted her to know that it had been done and b) because I wanted her to know Maisie was OK and c) - see below)


I can understand how much trust she put in me - not only was she letting me have one of her beautiful dogs but one that has a fantastic pedigree, was proven in the show ring and whose previous pups were obviously worth a lot of money - I was / still am really humbled that she let me have Maisie .... I can never repay what she has brought to my life and I would never do anything to make her breeder doubt that she did the right thing (as I know it was really hard for her to let Maisie go) - AND maybe stop someone else being as lucky as I am in the future.

Sorry that's long - but this person has made me really mad by what she's done


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I did chase her for spaying, she sent me an email of the cat with a babyvest on, said it was to cover the wound.... i did reply i need proof to see the wound and the neuter form has to be signed by the vet, she then went quiet and i couldnt get hold of her again until today.

Havoc, i will get my contract the owner signed and pm you, if this is ok, unless you wish for it to be on this thread then thats fine.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> I did chase her for spaying, she sent me an email of the cat with a babyvest on, said it was to cover the wound.... i did reply i need proof to see the wound and the neuter form has to be signed by the vet, she then went quiet and i couldnt get hold of her again until today.
> 
> Havoc, i will get my contract the owner signed and pm you, if this is ok, unless you wish for it to be on this thread then thats fine.


She said she was spayed? and sent you a picture of the cat in a baby vest??? Well obviously that was a load of bull 

Sorry but it sounds like this lady was taking you for a ride  Your poor kitty. I hope there is something you can do.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Havoc, i will get my contract the owner signed and pm you, if this is ok, unless you wish for it to be on this thread then thats fine.


That's fine by me. If there's anything of general interest or I think would be useful to everyone I'll bung it on the open forum as long as you don't mind.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> I did chase her for spaying, she sent me an email of the cat with a babyvest on, said it was to cover the wound.... i did reply i need proof to see the wound and the neuter form has to be signed by the vet, she then went quiet and i couldnt get hold of her again until today.
> 
> Havoc, i will get my contract the owner signed and pm you, if this is ok, unless you wish for it to be on this thread then thats fine.


It sounds like she knew exactly what she was doing from the start.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Ok, heres part of my contract on kitten sales:

The purchaser agrees to and understands the following conditions:

i) The kitten described above shall not be used for breeding purposes of any kind and will be registered with the gccf on the NON-Active Register.

ii) This kitten has been sold as a pet only, failure to comply with this signed contract the breeder has the right to start any court action to ensure neutering has been undertaken by the relevant age of 6 months old.
The purchaser understands that this is a legally binding contract.

iii) The transfer of ownership document will be given upon receipt of a signed copy and evidence of neutering/spay from the owners veterinary surgeon.

So to confirm i still have the transfer form for this girl in my own name as proof wasnt received.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

how old is your kitten and how old are the babies?


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Ok, heres part of my contract on kitten sales:
> 
> The purchaser agrees to and understands the following conditions:
> 
> ...


If she is still in your name then the kittens I would think would be yours if you wished to pursue this. I am 100% certain that this is the case with horses as I purchased a lovely young filly and was unaware she was in foal (far to young to have a foal in my opinion and barely showed) and after the sale there was a break between buying her, where I paid full livery, and collecting her (as she was coming from several hundred miles away). The livery owner sold the foal, but technically it was mine and not hers to sell as the horse was in my name. This is how I know it to be true for horses, I believe it would be the same or similar for your cat.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

cat is 11 months old, kittens 10 weeks but she has already sold 4 kittens from a litter of 6.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The purchaser agrees to and understands the following conditions:
> 
> i) The kitten described above shall not be used for breeding purposes of any kind and will be registered with the gccf on the NON-Active Register.


Or what?


> ii) This kitten has been sold as a pet only, failure to comply with this signed contract the breeder has the right to start any court action to ensure neutering has been undertaken by the relevant age of 6 months old.
> The purchaser understands that this is a legally binding contract.


Suggest you start court action then. What's your cause of action and what are you going to ask for?



> iii) The transfer of ownership document will be given upon receipt of a signed copy and evidence of neutering/spay from the owners veterinary surgeon.
> 
> So to confirm i still have the transfer form for this girl in my own name as proof wasnt received.


GCCF admin functions are nothing to do with legal ownership. The buyer became the owner when they paid you money and you handed over the goods. Once they own the cat they can in law do what they choose. The GCCF can refuse to register any kittens from a non-active registered cat but that's a private issue rather than a legal one.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Havoc, not what i wanted to hear but needed to hear 
So basically more fool me for trusting and not EN then.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> I did chase her for spaying, she sent me an email of the cat with a babyvest on, said it was to cover the wound.... i did reply i need proof to see the wound and the neuter form has to be signed by the vet, she then went quiet and i couldnt get hold of her again until today.
> 
> Havoc, i will get my contract the owner signed and pm you, if this is ok, unless you wish for it to be on this thread then thats fine.


Well wot a bleep bleep bleep. She obviously knew what she was planning from the start ... I hope you can do something


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

She has promised me she will spay and thats all i can hope for, as Havoc has pointed out when you sell something you are then not the owner.

Guess i learnt the hard way but i know about EN now so thats a good thing.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> cat is 11 months old, kittens 10 weeks but she has already sold 4 kittens from a litter of 6.


Poor cat....disgusting. Bad enough she should be so deceitful but even worse she has done this at such a young age.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Take it then there is nothing you can do to make her spay the cat?

Cos if thats the case, a contract isn't worth the paper its written on?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

probably nothing can be done sadly but it wont stop me trying.

I have today gone through health issues, testings etc which worried her so lets just hope this sinks in and the cat is spayed.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> So basically more fool me for trusting and not EN then.


Hopefully those who don't EN will take note, this is not an uncommon situation sadly and I'm glad you've posted about it. At least now you're ensuring it can't happen again

Hopefully she neuters the girl now.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

She doesn't know you can't enforce that contract... I'd play on that to try and resolve this.


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## sharonchilds (Jul 7, 2011)

I think what she has done is truly disgusting cc, i have more words for her but cant put them on here!
Some people are just bloody good at telling lies, you wasn't to know that. People like her make me sick because the trust goes and not everyone is a low life like her but once bitten twice shy.
I have just found out that Tia's previous owner (who wanted Tia to have a better life) who then got a dog  has got rid of the dog and has 2 new kittens!!!!! I could strangle her. But i truly believed her!
Sorry for waffling on and i hope she does have the poor girl spayed x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Oh no that is awful 

What I have in my contract is the terms and if broken what we will do, like a fine, take the kitten and cat etc So its a set rule and then if it is broken what happens.

Poor girl  I cant see me ever not EN now, I had to let a boy go recently as he only had 1 erm, bit  , come down, his sister had one from me and he was taking 2 so I have known him for a while so was happy to do it for that reason.

So sad, I do wonder why these people lie instead of saying can I breed? beforehand, apart from breeding loads and one the cheap etc


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

What an awful thing to happen to one of your kittens :frown2: I agree with previous posters, this person sounds like they knew exactly what they were doing right from the start!

If you can do nothing else then at least report them to the inland revenue - at least they will get the hassle of having to do a tax return and possibly having a bill from the tax man coming out of her ill gotten gains!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> She has promised me she will spay and thats all i can hope for


It's known in contracts as 'specific performance'. The problem is it will cost you money which you won't see back - and if you lose...................



> She doesn't know you can't enforce that contract... I'd play on that to try and resolve this.


Why should she care now when she hasn't done previously? If you threaten legal action you HAVE to intend to go to the next step. Otherwise you've played an empty hand with nowhere else to go.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If you can do nothing else then at least report them to the inland revenue - at least they will get the hassle of having to do a tax return and possibly having a bill from the tax man coming out of her ill gotten gains!


For one litter of moggies? Unlikely. If she attempts to advertise them as pedigrees again then it's misrepresentation but that's nothing to do with HMRC.


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

Oh CC - Big hugs, hope she does the right thing. xxxxx


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

havoc said:


> For one litter of moggies? Unlikely. If she attempts to advertise them as pedigrees again then it's misrepresentation but that's nothing to do with HMRC.


Well pressuming theres an income into the household? as wouldn't of thought someone on benefits could afford a pedigree kitten to start with - then yeah ANY income over that is taxable and a tax return has to be done - if she's been advertising them at £250 a kitten and already sold 4 out of 6 thats £1K that HMRC would be happily interested in!

And thats on the pressumption that this is the only cat in the household and the first time they've bred kittens or anything else - HMRC are like dogs with a bone my friend got a £2500 for not filling in a tax return for a business that she never even started - she'd looked into it and made all the enquiries which made them pressume she'd gone ahead but she never got past the planning stage! - she fought her case in court and they basically said tough! oh and heres another £1800 in court costs added to the bill!


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I am sure the taxman cant do anythingif shes not running a business, as far as i know you have to have a certain no of dogs or cats to have HMRC involved
Could be wrong, but i seem to remember a case a couple of years ago in the papers, about someone breeding Ragdolls, and it was mentioned that if this person had [an amount] not sure how many then it was classed as a business,


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't think she is tax evading, to sell a kitten is no different to selling things on ebay (for tax reasons I mean!) unless she is running it as a business.


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## wst (Sep 12, 2010)

this thread is so sad, and o/p i realy feel for you, this is so sad,but i think you have to put this down to experence,and learn from it,(which from what i have read you have)make sure the person you sold this cat to gets her spayed!then at least you can put your mind at rest! as for the kittens that is up to her what she does,sad i know.but atleast you will never end up in this situation again, ie pf puts us all on the right road! sorry i must post this pic,just to lift the mood i wish she was mine.


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

havoc said:


> For one litter of moggies? Unlikely. If she attempts to advertise them as pedigrees again then it's misrepresentation but that's nothing to do with HMRC.


The taxman will go out of their way to get any monies owed no matter how little it is! Yet don't like giving back money they owe  
They'd certainly be interested in 1k 'earned' and not declared I would have thought.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

HMRC on if it's a business or a hobby:

BIM20205 - Trade: badges of trade: summary


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Even £1000 is not a lot when you consider the food litter,worming vets bills etc, so not all profit, and there is nothing to say this person didnt feed or worm the kittens properly, and I am certain the taxman wont be involved,and wont be classed as a business, 
The person who was in the papers had to be classed as a business as she had about 12 cats I think, plus others, and continual breeding
I think it was through neighbours complaining about the noise from cats in season outside,and the no of people coming and parking their cars outside their houses if I remember right, it was said if she had not that many cats she wouldn't have to pay tax, but now had to be classed as a business


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Even £1000 is not a lot when you consider the food litter,worming vets bills etc, so not all profit


Spot on. Some years ago HMRC decided to target cat breeders. Whilst there may be a few who breed enough to make profit it was soon determined that although it does look like a business to some it is inevitably a loss making one. I, along with most breeders, would love to be able to claim my breeding expenses against my total income. Not allowed.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok I think Im probably not putting what i was trying to say accross properly.

The point wasn't whether the taxman will actually give her a bill, or anything to do with legit breeders and their expenses v possible profit - it was that they would probably contact her and ask her to fill out a self assesment form = hassle for her, if this is the only litter and a "one off" then it would probably all get left but it may be the push she needs to spay the cat as she wouldn't want the taxman on her back again.

But from what I gathered from reading is that she told the OP that the cat had been spayed and even sent a photo of the cat in a vest to try and "prove" it. Which has since been found out to be a lie - quite an elaborate way of trying to cover tracks and then false advertising of the kittens for quite a price would make me suspicious that this wasn't an accident and that she doesn't intend on spaying, which would also raise the question of is this the only cat(or any other animal) that she's having "accidental breedings" with.

Sometimes you cant get through to people morally but the taxman on your back can occasionally give the people a push of "this is more hassle than its worth" 

My other thought was just to go and steal the cat back but alas the law on that one is on the owners side and not the OPs x

OP I was just thinking that the person who had your kitten has proved themselves to be a liar (dont blame yourself, even the most paranoid with all the checks in the world can still get fooled)

A direct - "Im going to take you to court" may feel a bit like picking a fight and unfortunately its a fight that isn't in your favour (even though it should be with the kitten contract!)

But my thinking was a quick call/email to HMRC may just make this person think its too much hassle after all and get the cat spayed which ultimately is what you'd like from going to court?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just found out one or maybe even both kittens might have been bred from, seen on facebook that she le almostt the cat out and there was a tom in the garden, she put "she loves her own kitties doesn't want more" I have just emailed her, so I am fuming as well, waiting for a reply


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Ok, heres part of my contract on kitten sales:
> 
> The purchaser agrees to and understands the following conditions:
> 
> ...




Is she not still legally your cat, as the purchaser has not fulfilled her part of the contract? I'd push this if I were you, and I would see if I could take an ad out on Gumtree myself telling people a) the kittens are not purebred; b) the breeder is not entitled to sell them, as the dam is not her cat.

Otherwise, all you can do is keep an eye open for her ads, and do your best to sabotage them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Is she not still legally your cat, as the purchaser has not fulfilled her part of the contract?


The 'contract' consisted of an offer of payment, an acceptance of that offer and payment being made. Unless the breeder had somehow managed to get the buyer to agree in writing that the kitten, although bought and paid for, remained the property of the breeder until it was neutered then no, it isn't the breeder's cat still. Even if a breeder managed such a trick with a buyer then there's every chance it would be seen as an unfair term. It basically says, you give me money and I'll give you a kitten to keep. All expenses are yours but I can take it all back any time I choose until your vet neuters it. I can really see a judge being sympathetic to that.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Oh, no, CC, how awful... 

I wonder if there is any way the purchasers of the kittens can be tracked down, if they've been sold a cross as a pedigree then they aren't going to ge that happy. 

Makes me wonder if there shouldn't be some central list of 'do not sell to these people' for deceitful individuals like this.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Just found out one or maybe even both kittens might have been bred from, seen on facebook that she le almostt the cat out and there was a tom in the garden, she put "she loves her own kitties doesn't want more" I have just emailed her, so I am fuming as well, waiting for a reply


How awful, especially to find out on FB rather than being told, will you early neuter from now on so it can't happen again?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> Even £1000 is not a lot when you consider the food litter,worming vets bills etc, so not all profit, and there is nothing to say this person didnt feed or worm the kittens properly, and I am certain the taxman wont be involved,and wont be classed as a business,
> The person who was in the papers had to be classed as a business as she had about 12 cats I think, plus others, and continual breeding
> I think it was through neighbours complaining about the noise from cats in season outside,and the no of people coming and parking their cars outside their houses if I remember right, it was said if she had not that many cats she wouldn't have to pay tax, but now had to be classed as a business


oh no is that 2 of your own that you bred? Or another of cat's maine coons? Getting a bit confused!

Can I just ask what do you do in following up that neutering us done? As I had a lady contact me about breeding a 18month on ragdoll on non active, explained everything to her, but when I told the breeder they just said oh well she never sent it to me so I never sent her the pink slip, which obviously doesn't stop people! But she had never followed up?!

I stay in contact with everyone, but I used to do a countdown saying neutering is due in X amount of weeks, then to the day, then a email, pictures of the wound, letter from vet etc. Only had trouble with 2, that I wont go into now! But both were indeed neutered after!

So happy that I EN them before they leave me, all new slaves love it to! But at least I know mine cant end up in these peoples hands


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Only had trouble with 2, that I wont go into now! But both were indeed neutered after!


Shows that no matter how much you follow up, those with ill intentions will still do whatever they please unfortunately.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Shows that no matter how much you follow up, those with ill intentions will still do whatever they please unfortunately.


EN is the the only way to avoid problems. Its worth travelling some distance to find a vet who will do it.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> EN is the the only way to avoid problems. Its worth travelling some distance to find a vet who will do it.


Agree, I know some country breeders who travel 4-6 hours to come down to the city for an EN vet.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Was talking to a breeder friend on the phone last night and apparently her vet will do from 9 weeks for the RSPCA etc. but 16 weeks for owned kittens.  Am so lucky that I found one, she's only 15 minutes drive and she's a lovely vet anyway - I'll be using her for more than just kittens. 

The down sides are the road is over the hills & windy, so no good for cats that get travel sick, it's a small practise so doesn't have the same level of equipment the other one does, and their out of hours service is 35 minutes drive whereas the other one does their own out of hours work.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Was talking to a breeder friend on the phone last night and apparently her vet will do from 9 weeks for the RSPCA etc. but 16 weeks for owned kittens.


Ridiculous, I wonder what would happen if breeders pressed them to do it before 16 weeks. Surely they'd rather have the business than send it to another clinic.


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

Sounds like a distressing and complicated situation. Is there a reason breeders need to let their kittens go at 13 weeks, instead of keeping their kittens until they're old enough to be neutered, maybe at four to six months?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Aeschylus said:


> Sounds like a distressing and complicated situation. Is there a reason breeders need to let their kittens go at 13 weeks, instead of keeping their kittens until they're old enough to be neutered, maybe at four to six months?


There's no reason to wait 4-6 months for neutering, kittens have been neutered from 1kg in weight (approx 8 weeks) for decades


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Aeschylus said:


> Sounds like a distressing and complicated situation. Is there a reason breeders need to let their kittens go at 13 weeks, instead of keeping their kittens until they're old enough to be neutered, maybe at four to six months?


They are old enough to neuter at 13 weeks, and they are ready for their new homes as well - so am I! Having 6 lively kittens of that age is a lot of work, a lot of cat litter (so guess what some of the work is) and a lot of food. It would also be very hard to pursuade the new owners to wait until 18-20 weeks. Mine are desparate to take them home.


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

Yes, Ive been following discussions about early neutering with considerable interest. People say that some vets wont do it as early as 13 weeks, so I wonder why a breeder would let a pet kitten go at that age if their vet isnt willing (or trained) to do early neutering. 

Im sure it must be hard work for the breeder, and new owners want the kitten as soon as possible, but thats the same reason BYBs let kittens go at 6 weeks. So I guess I can see why responsible breeders wait until the kitten is old enough to be properly weaned and socialised but I dont entirely understand why neutering isnt also factored in, unless they do EN. Maybe non-EN breeders are usually confident that they can trust the new owner to be responsible about neutering?

I do hope that Catcoonz finds a solution to the current situation; it must be very worrying.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spotty cats said:


> Shows that no matter how much you follow up, those with ill intentions will still do whatever they please unfortunately.


Oh I know! I only had major trouble with one, but kitten was neutered dead on 6 months, not sure why I said two now, maybe it was the other asking about breeding? Cant remember now :mellow: But I knew before that kitten went, I even tried to give their deposit back, NEVER go back on gut feeling!! : Never listen to anyone say you are too fussy either!



Aeschylus said:


> Sounds like a distressing and complicated situation. Is there a reason breeders need to let their kittens go at 13 weeks, instead of keeping their kittens until they're old enough to be neutered, maybe at four to six months?


They can be neutered from 8-10weeks in the uk, I don't think waiting until 6 months is going to solve anything as people will just go and buy even more younger kittens as they will say breeders are keeping them too long then!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

This seems cheap for a purebred MC - is it your 'friend' under another name?

8 weeks full Main Coone | Hounslow, Middlesex | Pets4Homes


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lostbear said:


> This seems cheap for a purebred MC - is it your 'friend' under another name?
> 
> 8 weeks full Main Coone | Hounslow, Middlesex | Pets4Homes


Full maine coon, Yeah ok...


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

And can't even spell the breed's name correctly..


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

She looks poorly


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

That 'main coone' doesn't look very well.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Exactly what I was going to say,it looks very scraggly,? if that's the right word, not well looked after in my opinion, not well either


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