# Still spraying 3 years on



## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok, some here may remember me posting about a stray male tabby who turned up. Lovely cat, lovely nature BUT he sprays. We took him to the vets and we were told he had already been castrated. How can this be ?

Anyway, we have persevered but still we find evidence of spraying all over the house. It's not funny when wooden furniture has been permanently stained. It's also amazing how high up he has managed to spray. I would have thought impossible. We have a ginger cat who is around 16 and often he attacks him. Ginger sometimes joins in in a playful way BUT sometimes he really does attack him, even when we are in the room and he knows we are annoyed he seems adamant he is going to still get him. Immediately after that he sprays as much as he can. Just of late he seems to want to spend more time out at night and is hard to get in. Usually he want's to be inside. At the moment he is worse than ever as we have been hopeful of him growing out of it because the spraying subsided.

So, why is he so aggressive and why is he still spraying at the moment ? When will it stop ?

Please don't suggest the very expensive Felaway because it has little, if any impact on the situation and we would have to buy so much we just couldn't afford it.

It's sooooo depressing :confused1:


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I also have a neutered male cat who sprays in the house.

I am afraid it is a misconception that male cats stop spraying just because they have been neutered! They don't, it is just most of them don't spray 
*inside* the house. All my neutered male cats (past & present) have sprayed in the garden, but only one sprays indoors.

Spraying is territorial behaviour and is most likely to happen in a multi-cat household. In your case your tabby cat is trying to proclaim your house as being *all* his territory. The tabby may well hope your other cat will move out, if he (tabby) scent marks everywhere often enough.

My experience is that male cats who have been uprooted, e.g. rescue cats, strays, rehomes etc are more likely to spray in their new home. They feel insecure, so they scent mark with urine to establish themselves.

I am sorry to say your tabby's behaviour is unlikely to change.  Possibly if he were to live as an "only" cat the spraying might eventually reduce, but I fear it has become a habit now.

My cat tends to spray mostly in the night, when he is on his way out through the catflap. I do use a lot of Feliway spray before I go to bed (I can't use the diffuser because I am asthmatic), and sometimes it seems to help, sometimes not.

The only thing I can suggest is restricting your cat to certain areas of the house, e.g. don't allow him upstairs, or anywhere there are soft furnishings such as curtains, cushions etc. Try and identify, by keeping a log, any particular triggers that make him spray, as by reducing anxiety levels it will help reduce the spraying, tho not eradicate the habit.

Ensure there are no strange cats getting into your house, throught the cat flap. Best to have a battery operated microchip type catflap, then you can be sure you are keeping all but the resident cats out. In time "tabby" will learn he is safe in his house., and feel less anxious.

However as you have your other cat I am afraid Tabby cat is likely to continue spraying, as he sees his presence as a challenge to him. If you allow your 16 yr old access to upstairs but keep Tabby cat downstairs then at least the older cat will have some peace, which he deserves in his senior yrs. And maybe Tabby cat's behaviour will improve a bit if he is not constantly coming across your older cat.

EDIT: ensure you are removing all traces of urine every time Tabby sprays. Use an enzymatic pet odour cleaner, not a household cleaner. Also, I have found that if I put small litter trays in places where my cat has sprayed repeatedly, it does stop him spraying there. Tho of course he may move to somewhere else. I agree it is depressing, but as long as my cat sprays on only hard surfaces such as washing machine, wood floors etc I can deal with it. However, I have had to throw out a lot of doormats since I adopted him !


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

We don't have a catflap. We can't shut the ginger cat upstairs while the tabby is downstairs as the ginger will not be able to use the emergency litter tray in the kitchen as he is old and unpredictable. They sleep together in the kitchen at night, sometimes both curled up together on the same cushion so he can't dislike the ginger cat that much.

I just hope it stops


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

hubballi said:


> > They sleep together in the kitchen at night, sometimes both curled up together on the same cushion so he can't dislike the ginger cat that much.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I did not explain clearly -- it's not about "dislike", it's about the tabby cat feeling threatened at times, for whatever reason, and wanting to claim the house as his territory. He can still "like" your other cat and "allow" him to
> ...


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

I agree with Chillminx. Unfortunately, sometimes you cannot change an animal's behaviour and you just have to learn to manage it.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

chillminx said:


> hubballi said:
> 
> 
> > is not the same behaviour as having a wee indoors, tho the end results are the same!).
> ...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

hubballi said:


> > We can't have a catflap so that is out of the question.
> 
> 
> Well there is nothing more I can suggest, sorry.
> ...


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Unfortunately some cats just never get out of the habit and unless you house him outside (in a stud pen for example) I can't see a way forward for you. All the things I would have suggested you have already turned down. 

I hope you work something out.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

Well I absolutely don't know what to do to stop him spraying. We have just got in and sprayed around the room with Felaway and straight away he came in and sprayed the fabric throw of the settee . *It doesn't work !!* Surely he should have calmed down by now. It's ok saying to wash every surface with biological powder but it's easier said than done, especially when he does it again and again on matt painted walls. Basicly the whole house is like a cat's toilet and it is being slowly ruined. Such a lovely cat too


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

My suggestion as things are so bad, is that you consult an animal behaviourist as soon as possible, one whose speciality is cats. 

It is best to get one who will come to your home and make an assessment of the cat in its own environment. Your vet should be able to recommend someone good to you. You may only need one visit, and it could be a very worthwhile investment. I am sure they will have some helpful suggestions for you.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks, I will look into it and give it a go if not too costly.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Are you sure he has been neutered, because sometimes male cats can have inverted testicles?


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

Well the vet examined him so yes he must have been.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I have a neutered male sprayer. Chillminx's advice is spot-on. Feliway and calming collars do not work in my case. I have had a behaviourist in and we tried various things. My boy only started spraying after I brought in a female as a companion for him, so it definitely has to do with intercat dynamics. Other things that trigger him is when he smells or hears a tomcat nearby, after a skirmish with one of his sisters or whenever he doesn't get what he wants. The only thing that worked (which greatly diminished his spraying, not eliminate it completely) was Clomicalm, which can be obtained at your vet. Other people on the forum recommend Zylkene, a more natural product, but as I have not used it myself, I can't confirm how well it works. Good luck, don't give up. I know it's hard.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

I am afraid the options are too expensive. We are already paying £50 a month for the ginger tom's thyroid tabs.

Still spraying even now. Absolutely depressing


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

What kind of Thyroid medication can be costing £50 per month?
I buy 100 Felimazole from Animed direct for £16, vet gives me a 6 month prescription for £15 so that's less than £10 per month.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Did you consult an animal behaviourist as I suggested? You would only need one visit, so it would be a one-off expense, not something you'd need to fork out for every month. 

If you bring down your expenses for the thyroid drugs to a reasonable £10 a month (as PP suggests), then it would not be so bad to pay out £60 (or so) once, for the animal behaviourist. As you are suffering such stress or annoyance from the cat spraying, it would worth the expense for your peace of mind, I would have thought.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

They are vidalta 15mg and they charge £61 for 2 months supply including vat. 
they are small red tabs. He is an old cat and has had tests and been specifically put on these. I looked online to buy them and they worked out just as expensive.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

For 100 Vidalta 15mg tabs the vet charges £61.20 (including vat). I can get 100 of them on Animed Direct for £45. 

For a prescription, the vet charge £9.50. Will this prescription cover just every batch or one year ? If only each batch it seems hardly worth the hassle as there is only £7 in it.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It depends how the prescription is worded. You can ask the vet to write a prescription that contains provision for refills. He might be willing to add 2 or 3 
refills.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I did have a female cat who sprayed for many months and then all of a sudden it stopped. I sprayed the areas with apple cider vinegar and it seemed to stop her respraying in that area. Anyway, one day she just stopped and didnt do it again.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

As the prescription can be scanned and emailed, who is to say that the date can't be flexible ;-) they don't check with the vets.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry if I am going over old territory because I haven't seen previous posts but just wanted to ask if you have discussed with your vet for any ideas that would help? And has vet checked specifically for cryptorchidism (retained testicles) as there is absolutely no sign of them exernally if both are retained and cats with retained testicles show usually some degree of 'tom cat' behaviour which would explain his spraying.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Tao2 said:


> Sorry if I am going over old territory because I haven't seen previous posts but just wanted to ask if you have discussed with your vet for any ideas that would help? And has vet checked specifically for cryptorchidism (retained testicles) as there is absolutely no sign of them exernally if both are retained and cats with retained testicles show usually some degree of 'tom cat' behaviour which would explain his spraying.


Territorial behaviour, such as spraying indoors is not done only by entire tom cats. I have a neutered male cat who sprays indoors, to assert his dominance over my other cats. I minimise the damage by restricting him to certain areas of the house away from soft furnishings, and where the floors are easy to clean.

As I recall from the OP's previous posts his cat is spraying indoors to assert his dominance over the other cat in the house.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Chillminx, I do appreciate that (in fact, the only cat I've ever had a problem with spraying was a neutered female, and that was definitely stress of other cats in house). I just thought if it was hormonal because of a couple of hidden away testicles it would be an easy fix. Clutching at straws really.....


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Don't worry you're not alone!!! I have 16 cats all ferals and most spray, even the females, and all are neutered - most are good and do it outdoors, like you ours come in at night as we have lampers in this area who shoot cats and we've lost a few to them so now they stay in all night. 
But there are a few who do spray anything that moves, one who is really really inbred and slightly knocked off, he will even spray people if they stand still for 2 seconds, and nothing can be left out on kitchen surfaces or any plastic objects/bags/electronic items/clothing etc!! He sprayed the plugs on the kitchen surfaces and they shorted out and exploded so now they are covered in sticky tape!! 

It's one of those things you have to put up with I'm afraid if you have one with an ingrained behavior - the price to pay for having nutty cats I guess, we just minimise the damage by tying all the curtains up above pee height, no plastic bags anywhere, no clean laundry left unattended, restricted access to only a few rooms in the house, covers on the setees that can be taken off if we have visitors as Kipper likes to sometimes pee then sleep in it, we don't have carpets just rugs on either stone or wood floors, antique or wooden furniture is only in certain cat free rooms, and I'm trying to find a waterproof fleecy blanket at the mo to stick on my bed during the day as he sometimes pees on that too - I've washed my duvet twice this week, his sister is not as bad but likes to pee in dishes or mugs - the smaller the better, his other 3 brothers one has panic attacks in small spaces ie. the house! and pees on doors, another was a sprayer but he also had suicidal tendancies and was names suicide Sid as he liked to chase bugs on the road so sadly lived upto his name, and the other sadly died of a kidney infection but was also a sprayer - I'll bloody shoot the stupid women I rescued them from who couldn't be arsed to neuter her cats if I see her again!!!
Cleaning wise I just keep mopping/wiping etc and use febreeze when someone comes to visit! - I should buy some shares in cleaning products too as that's all I seem to do and have cupboards full of products!! It's just a matter of keeping up with it - you soon get into a routine, you could try pee poles, rig up something plastic which usually attrcts sprayers - something that is fine to spray on in an area frequently sprays that is easy to clean and has a tray under it - might help at least lessen the amount he does elsewhere - cats who'd have them!!!!!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds like you have your hands full AlexArt! I sympathise with you!


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

And I thought I had problems.

What are lampers and how do you go about getting a licence to shoot them ?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

hubballi said:


> > What are lampers and how do you go about getting a licence to shoot them ?
> 
> 
> "Lampers" are groups of thugs who go out at night with strong spotlights and guns, for the purpose of shooting wild animals. (or sometimes even cats, in rural areas). The strong lights cause the animals to freeze on the spot making them an easy target for the thugs.
> ...


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

Sounds like they need lamping. I am afraid I would get violent tendencies if I saw people doing this.


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## hubballi (Aug 6, 2009)

It still happens from time to time but we now restrict him to less rooms which helps.


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