# Broken tooth



## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

I took Charlie to the vet this morning because we felt like he was having teeth problems. Somehow he's completely broken one of his front top teeth. There's the smallest stub left there atm as it's broken straight through the nerve.

He's on metacam 0.22ml daily now until it grows back but I was wondering if there was any advice from you guys. The vet I saw was a junior until recently so I don't know whether her prediction that it'll grow back in 1-2 weeks is right?

Any other advice regarding food would be great too. I've been giving him soggy pellets for now but even those he's reluctant to eat.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry I've no experience in this :-/
The metacam dose seems low...what's his weight? They can tolerate a decent sized dose as the metabolise it quickly. My German lop gets 3ml. He weighs about 3.2kg.
I would think getting him to keep eating is the main thing in the short term. Maybe by upping his pain relief to a sensible level and grating him some veg or finding something he likes?
Long term you would want to be sure the tooth is aligned as it grows back and doesn't come back wonky or causing trouble.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

This is the online calculator I use

http://www.vgr1.com/metacam/


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

He was 1.8kg last time I checked. Not sure what his weight came up as today cause I wasn't paying attention to it when she checked (woops)

Can't figure out how to calculate it on the site. Plus the site says:



> The calculator will only show the dosing based on the data inputted. The results will have nothing to do with the correct dose for your rabbit's particular condition. This must be done by a rabbit savvy vet!!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

It's just that you didn't come across as being thoroughly confident in your vet and from personal experience I know a lot of non-rabbit savvy vets underestimate the metacam dosage a rabbit can have. According to the calculator if your bun is 1.8kg a single dose of the 1.5mg/ml metacam is going to be 0.67 ml. This is 3 times what he's on. Might explain his reluctance to eat if his pain is not being managed thoroughly. I'm not suggesting you switch yourself. But it's worth going back to your vet, showing him the chart and asking him to ring a more experienced exotics vet for their input. Eg. Molly Varga at Cheshire Pet. If it helps your rabbit it's worth doing


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

Well when we were discussing food she said to continue with mushy pellets for as long as I can and then suggested 'lettuce and strawberries' as an alternative. I mean what sort of diet is that? We've seen her a few times and she seems to know a fair amount about rabbits - she previously told me she had a pet rabbit in the past - I just wouldn't consider her an expert in something as important as teeth. I thought I'd get the more experienced exotic vet when I called to make the appointment -__-

Thank you for the advice though. He's had his dose of metacam for today, but if he's still reluctant to eat dinner I'll give another practise I've been wanting to switch to a call for advice.

Not sure how strong it is, the bottle says 0.30 x Metacam Oral Suspension 100ml if that means anything lol. I'm assuming it's 1.5 based on the fact that I've been given an entire bottle of 1.5 for Charlie in the past.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Lettuce and strawberries???? Yes...lets give him the galloping gutrots to go with his sore tooth! 
Get the heck outta there!! Lol
Maybe try a tiny amount of shredded greens, some basil or parsley, maybe some chopped up broccoli?
Pic attached of box to show where it states the concentration of 1.5mg per ml


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

First things first, you need to find yourself a good rabbit savvy vet. 
Teeth do grow surprisingly fast (which is why some buns need dentals every 3 to 4 weeks), but if it is as short as you say then I would expect it to take a few more than a couple of weeks to grow through properly. Whilst it is growing back the teeth will have to be kept an eye on to make sure it grows back straight.

0.2 is a very low dose (but correct for the first band of dosages (rabbits have 3 different dosage amounts depending on what the problem is)) if you feel there is still pain then you can safely give 0.6ml but I would speak to your vet before adding more meds as we can't examine the rabbit, nor are we vets.

But deffo get a good exotic vet sorted.


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

Lopside said:


> Lettuce and strawberries???? Yes...lets give him the galloping gutrots to go with his sore tooth!
> Get the heck outta there!! Lol
> Maybe try a tiny amount of shredded greens, some basil or parsley, maybe some chopped up broccoli?
> Pic attached of box to show where it states the concentration of 1.5mg per ml


It was rebottled for me in one of those brown medicine bottles with a label. But I do have a tiny bit left in a bottle the same as the one you've got pictured.

Shredded greens I can do! I bought some greens after work today for him and I'm about to go and shred them up.



StormyThai said:


> First things first, you need to find yourself a good rabbit savvy vet.
> Teeth do grow surprisingly fast (which is why some buns need dentals every 3 to 4 weeks), but if it is as short as you say then I would expect it to take a few more than a couple of weeks to grow through properly. Whilst it is growing back the teeth will have to be kept an eye on to make sure it grows back straight.
> 
> 0.2 is a very low dose (but correct for the first band of dosages (rabbits have 3 different dosage amounts depending on what the problem is)) if you feel there is still pain then you can safely give 0.6ml but I would speak to your vet before adding more meds as we can't examine the rabbit, nor are we vets.
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I think I'll call the 2nd vets tomorrow and see what they say.

Is there anything you do if a tooth grows back wonky? :S


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

farhana said:


> Thank you for the advice. I think I'll call the 2nd vets tomorrow and see what they say.
> 
> Is there anything you do if a tooth grows back wonky? :S


Not really unless it causes enough problems to warrant an extraction (last resort), it will just need to be watched because if it wears unevenly a dental will be needed.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Lettuce an strawberries? That poor advice alone should sent you hot footing to another more rabbit savvy vet.

Soaked pellets are a good idea.

Our vet gave us the chart of the 3 levels of (Dog) Metacam, which has proved very useful. wouldn't want to advise you, other than to talk to another vet re best dosage to control pain.

If Metacam doesn't do enough, there is also the option of Tramadol too, which is also a painkiller.

Once the pain is controlled, the hope would be that he will eat more.

Do keep an eye on his poo.

Have you tried him with fresh cut grass and dandelion leaves? Might be easier than hay.


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

I've been giving him 0.6ml and it's made such an improvement on his eating and his behaviour/temper. Thank you all for your advice, I feel like my sweet little bun is back.



Summersky said:


> Lettuce an strawberries? That poor advice alone should sent you hot footing to another more rabbit savvy vet.
> 
> Soaked pellets are a good idea.
> 
> ...


I'm going to wait a couple weeks and then take him to another vet to check his teeth and see if he needs anymore pain relief.

Our grass hasn't really grown this summer. I think we've only had to mow it once because of the strange whether we've been having... don't think we have any dandelions either but I'll offer them to him if I can find any.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I got some wheat grass seeds from Ebay and have grown tub after tub of it for the buns who need it. It takes 2 weeks form germination to being long enough to cut. Brilliant stuff.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh that's brilliant news. He will be feeling so much better now


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

Summersky said:


> I got some wheat grass seeds from Ebay and have grown tub after tub of it for the buns who need it. It takes 2 weeks form germination to being long enough to cut. Brilliant stuff.


I've had the seeds since last winter and just never got round to planting them. I've got some oat grass and some sort of flower as well all just waiting to be planted for them. *sigh*



Lopside said:


> Oh that's brilliant news. He will be feeling so much better now


Apparently he's a teenager because he's been having mood swings lately. Sometimes he loves me and sometimes he doesn't care whether I'm there or not! 

I've checked the tooth it's regrowing but either it's only half a tooth in width or its just not grown enough to really assess yet. Hoping it's the latter but will definitely have it looked at next week or the week after.

Do rabbits go off pellet flavours at all? In the past I've switched pellets around to find the perfect brand for us but now we've had science selective for almost a year and a half straight. Could this be one of the reasons he has less interest in pellets even mushed up? I've been thinking of changing back to excel because the pellets are smaller and bite size for him which will help since he's generally a slow eater.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Do make any change very slowly if that is what you decide to do.

Science Selective are high in fibre, and are an excellent choice. Having sad that, I know one rescue bun who was totally unable to eat them, as he used to choke on them (he did, though, later show to have a serious dental abscess, which again was probably affecting his chewing).

Excel is higher in sugar, lower in fibre; which is why we wouldn't normally recommend it as the pellet of choice.

However, there is always an exception to the rule; a broken tooth could certainly affect his ability to eat normally, and you may need to consider experimenting.

Perhaps get hold of a small trial pack of Excel, and add a few to his normal pellets. See what happens.

Could I also ask which SS pellets you are using, as there are different ones? Might be worth trying a change within the brand.

http://www.supremepetfoods.com/products/science-selective-junior-rabbit/


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

Summersky said:


> Do make any change very slowly if that is what you decide to do.
> 
> Science Selective are high in fibre, and are an excellent choice. Having sad that, I know one rescue bun who was totally unable to eat them, as he used to choke on them (he did, though, later show to have a serious dental abscess, which again was probably affecting his chewing).
> 
> ...


Does excel do trial packs? I'm a bit worried about the low fiber since he doesn't eat hay either. There was a time when I could get him to eat half a crushed stick of fiba first in the morning with pellets but it's been months since then.

Attached a pic of the science selective they've been having. If there's a version with smaller pellets I'm all for it.


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

I've just had a look and the 4+ version is smaller and has appetite stimulants... I think he's approaching 4 years old and it seems to be more or less what I want.

Holly's around the same age I think, maybe a little younger. Do you think it'll matter if she has it too or do you think it's better for them to have separate food? But then I don't want the other one smelling different pellets and wanting those instead.

Thoughts?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I'd be inclined to offer them a few and see how it goes.

The other way is to hand feed him if he will take them from you.

Also, have you tried Readigrass? Some love it, and it can be helpful with a poorly bun, although they shouldn't eat it exclusively.

Dandelion leaves are very successful too when rabbits are struggling, as is fresh cut grass.

The painkillers should help until the tooth settles down. Is he on "Dog" Metacam? I was a bit confused by the dosage.

There is a 3 step level of dosage, dependent on weight and other considerations; your vet should have the chart to hand. It might be worth asking the vet if you can increase the dose for a couple of days, to see if pain is stopping him eating his normal pellets. 

To give you an idea, one of our very old nethies is currently on 1ml metacam daily. Others are on long term dosages of 0.5/0.6. 

How much does your bun weigh?


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

He weighs 1.7-1.8kg generally.

I introduced the 4+ mature pellets mixed with the regular pellets for him yesterday morning. His appetite is slowly increasing  he ate all of his dinner tonight and even came over to me for his medicine and ate that from the syringe voluntarily.

We've tried Readigrass for him in the past he only ate 1-2 strands on a healthy day.

I'm going to place a hayforpets order for now and try and plant some of my grass seeds tomorrow.


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