# Rspca visit



## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Hi Guys,

First post on here so hi! Anyway, 6-7 weeks ago we found 3 kittens in our garden hedge which we took in and contacted the local Rspca center who asked us to take them there which we did. Once we arrived we had to sign the kittens over to them and they told us we had to catch the Mum which we did. When the took her in overnight and then dropped her off in the morning.
With the cat and kittens being around our children asked if we could keep one. Which me and my Wife then discussed and decided that we'd love to take one so we asked if we could put our names down for one. We were then told we couldn't in case one died. Instead we were told to check the website in four weeks when they would be ready.
Four weeks past and I had been checking every day to see if they had come up for adoption but nothing. Last week being the fifth or sixth week we decided to call in a see what was going on, again we were told to keep checking the website and call by telephone today for any news. We were still told we could not reserve one. Yesterday I checked the website to find the Mum and one of the Kittens had been put on the website but were reserved. Fuming I went straight down to the center by car and explained to the girl on the desk that we had asked time and time again to have our names put down for these and we had been turned away but some else had managed to come in, see them (which we were told we were not allowed), and have a home visit before they were put on the website! I spoke to the manager who told me that two had died and the mum and one had been re-homed. Then we were told that there was one left and we were taken into the shelter to she her, well me and my Wife and youngest daughter went like putty. We said we would have her and was put on a home visit list and had a deposit taken.
Today we had our home visit. I got the impression that the woman who came had made her mind up before she had even come to our house. We were questioned and questioned about our children and I pointed out that I grew up with cats, which was ignored. She kept saying " You need more time to think about this." which I replied with " We've had almost 2 months!" the she asked if it was a busy house. To which I told her the younger two are in nursery all day then get home, have their tea, baths an hour playing in the living room and bed. At the weekend they spend a lot of their time at their Nans house because she really loves the kids. The older 2 who are 9 and 8 come home from school, read their books, have their tea then go out to play until bath time and then they go to bed after playing with the younger two for an hour. So although we have four kids the house is usually quiet except for a few hours a day, although there is always at least one adult in the house. The woman said she had a lot to discuss with the Rspca and that we need time to think. I think we're going to be told no.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Some rescue homes seem to be well up their own backsides about suitability. 
(I'm asking for trouble saying that )

I really hope you are able to have the kitten, so what if you have children, a busy home etc. Makes me so mad!!


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Sorry, just remembered you're a newbie!! Hello and welcome


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## Mo1959 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm beginning to go right of the RSPCA the more I hear of some of their stupid ideas. You sound the perfect candidates for a kitten. I give up trying to understand people nowadays.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

To be honest. I'm disgusted at how we've been treated. I know that I'm going to be told no. I explained to her that I understand kittens are like children and I said we were thinking of keeping the children separated unless supervised until the Kitten was older. At the end of the day these were born on my property and we've offered them a good home.

Funny when my Mum had a visit from the German Shepards trust the lady insisted that the dogs would benefit from having children around and they are great together. The younger 2 adore the dogs and pet them all the time. The older two will stroke them whilst passing but tend to leave the dogs to their own devices.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Mo1959 said:


> I'm beginning to go right of the RSPCA the more I hear of some of their stupid ideas. You sound the perfect candidates for a kitten. I give up trying to understand people nowadays.


Not all RSPCA branches are the same. My local one would probably jump at the OP and his family as being suitable to adopt a rescued cat. Could it be that your branch is concerned the kitten may have health or behaviour problems, due to its inauspicious start in life, (bearing in mind 2 of the kittens died). And that parents with 4 kids may not have the necessary time to address the kitten's needs?

They may be more willing to offer the OP a slightly older cat to adopt, whose beginnings were less troubled.


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## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

delca1 said:


> Some rescue homes seem to be well up their own backsides about suitability.
> (I'm asking for trouble saying that )
> 
> :


your not wrong there....


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Oh, we were also told today that the Kitten won't be ready for about 6 weeks, making her 15 weeks old. But the other Kitten was re-homed yesterday? If they say no I will be writing to both my local newspapers about the way we have been mistreated.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Seems a typical rehoming story! I allow my kittens to go to homes with kids - my kids were brought up with cats, I was brought up with cats - just what is the problem with the rehoming places!:cursing:


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

chillminx said:


> Not all RSPCA branches are the same. My local one would probably jump at the OP and his family as being suitable to adopt a rescued cat. Could it be that your branch is concerned the kitten may have health or behaviour problems, due to its inauspicious start in life, (bearing in mind 2 of the kittens died). And that parents with 4 kids may not have the necessary time to address the kitten's needs?
> 
> They may be more willing to offer the OP a slightly older cat to adopt, whose beginnings were less troubled.


We informed the home visitor that the house has no children in a lot of the day but at least one adult. I then told her that my Wife sorts the children out in the evenings while I potter round the kitchen doing the dishes and emptying the bins and such so the Kitten would have my attention. We knew that they would probably have issues with the children so we offered to take the Mum but they re-homed her.

Plus they didn't seem to mind us playing with her for over half an hour unsupervised


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## Mo1959 (Mar 31, 2012)

It's a blooming shame. You sound as though you are getting attached to the wee thing already. I really hope they see sense and let you take her.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Sounds like a classic case of the centre deciding that you weren't going to have one and that was it. There are plenty of kittens needing homes, if you can;t get one from a rescue then go privately (of course, the more people are forced to do this, the more excuse there is for people to keep breeding ...). There are people on here with kittens, where do you live?

Liz


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

The way we were looking at it is that these Kittens are special because they were born on our property, the same property that I grew up in and all my children are growing up in. So to us that makes these little babies that bit more extra special. When they brought the Kitten out yesterday she ran straight up my arm and onto my shoulder and the guy said "Oh! she wouldn't do that unless she really liked you!" he was telling us to take lots of photo's on our phones and basically pushing us into wanting her. I've checked the internet twice a day for about 6-7 weeks now. If that doesn't show willing and the fact I won't be put off I don't know what will. In fact I'm going to wait outside of the centre in the morning when they open to find out the result!

I'm on the Wirral, if I do an internet search there is about 100 Kittens in a 10 mile area that I could pick up today, some for free but we wanted one of these kittens. Obviously if we can't have this one then we will have to consider another!


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## SharonC (Jan 7, 2011)

Our local RSPCA will not house any animal with families with kids under 5.

I know they have their reasons, but they are constantly on about being full to capacity etc! 

The way op has been treated is really poor, and I hope it sorts itself out x


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Click the link and look at pen 3 rspcawirral

That's the Mum with the other little one.


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## Mo1959 (Mar 31, 2012)

Awww. They are gorgeous. Can see why you have fallen in love!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It is such a shame that rescue centres (not all but not only the RSPCA) behave this way towards potential new owners 
I can understand why you feel that these particular kittens are special to you and it seems as if you have been fobbed off every time you have tried to offer one a home.
I really do not understand this 'policy' regarding children  I feel it is part of my kittens socialisation to be able to play with my grandchildren.


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## HoneyFern (Aug 27, 2009)

SharonC said:


> Our local RSPCA will not house any animal with families with kids under 5.
> 
> I know they have their reasons, but they are constantly on about being full to capacity etc!
> 
> The way op has been treated is really poor, and I hope it sorts itself out x


All the rehoming centre's near me have the policy not to rehome kittens with children under five and yes they are all full up but it's the adult cats that take up the space not kittens as they are easier to find homes for.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

OOh, posts like this make my blood BOIL! Unfortunately it is a story we have all heard over and over again, as wonderful potential homes and owners are rejected on sill grounds.
OP, I really hope that you are successful tomorrow and get the news that the kitten is yours. If you don't I would raise an almighty stink with letters to local papers and RSPCA bigwigs.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Do you think that there is anything that we could say or do to make them see that we are committed. I've been thinking of booking a vets appointment then telling the Rspca that we have arranged for her to be assessed so then they may think that we are showing our interest in our Kittens welfare. Another thing is that there is a lot of cat items for sale in their reception so I was thinking about going in and buying the items we would need, again showing we are considering our Kittens welfare. But I thought that this is taking it a little too far! Although I do believe we would need to do all this stuff, I think there is no need to have to do it under their 'supervision'!


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

colley614 said:


> Click the link and look at pen 3 rspcawirral
> 
> That's the Mum with the other little one.


I clicked the link but pen 3 has no picture for me


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

delca1 said:


> I clicked the link but pen 3 has no picture for me


Looks like it's been taking down in the last half hour!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Try this link. Cats Looking for New Homes 2012 | Facebook

and this one.. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9325029.235077.1086906647&type=3&l=f52ff7bd18


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you! They look so lovely.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I know I'm just an old cynic but you'd almost believe that kitten had already been promised to someone with close links to the centre wouldn't you


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

havoc said:


> I know I'm just an old cynic but you'd almost believe that kitten had already been promised to someone with close links to the centre wouldn't you


It says they were reserved on their facebook page 4 DAYS BEFORE they went on the website


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

As if!!!!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

What could I do now?


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## Clairey1234 (Apr 3, 2012)

the rspca are getting worse! you go to them for help, and they do everything in their power to go against you! 

i don't think i have ever heard of a positive story (personally), about the rspca.

i would definitely kick up a fuss about this! you didn't have to ring them for them to help these cats, but you did! and this is how they repay you. 
all because you have children! i've got 4 children, and my kids benefit from my cats and dog, and vice versa.
i really hope they allow you to have the last kitten.

i'll keep everything crossed for you!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Clairey1234 said:


> the rspca are getting worse! you go to them for help, and they do everything in their power to go against you!
> 
> i don't think i have ever heard of a positive story (personally), about the rspca.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I feel so helpless to do anything about this now. I will be visiting them tomorrow to see them and ask my questions. I will also be asking to see the Kitten to have a play with her


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## little tally (Apr 2, 2012)

It is so disheartening to hear that a rescue as well renowned as the RSPCA have been so ridiculous to work with.

The fact that you clearly cared enough to catch both Mum and kittens and do the responsible thing and take them to the RSPCA screams to me that you are clearly capable enough and have masses of love to give to a cat or kitten!

Our youngest Reggie was originally caught from a feral colony and then spent time in a foster home to be socialised until he was ready to come home which was around 15 weeks.

I really hope you have a positive outcome. If you have no luck we got Reggie from Cats Protection, and I'd recommend talking to them. They were fantastic with us and I know our local branch (along with all other rescue centres!!) is always bursting at the seams with both adult cats and kittens.

Good luck


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

I will look into cats protection. When we found the Kittens, they had no intention of coming to get them and then when we got them there we were told " We could do with their Mum." but the sounded flippant to say the least. So we brought the cage home and set it up in the garden. It took us 12 hours to cage the poor girl then we used one of our new towels for some where for her to lie on. Then we took her down the next morning waiting outside when the place opened (late!). 
If they say no I feel like calling the police and reporting a stolen cat!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Do you guys have any advice what I should say to the Rspca tomorrow? and do you think I could appeal the decision if they do say no?


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

I just don't know. 
My heart says go and have a moan (that's me being polite and restrained on pf) but my head says I don't think it would change anything.

Sorry, rubbish answer


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Its says at the bottom of their page that they will not re-home a Kitten to a home with children under 4. I'm going to point out that they aren't re-homing her. She's returning to the place she was born. I may also point out that I will buy a Kitten locally and will not be dealing with them as they were trying to push 2 adult cats on us.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Technically, they ARE rehoming them, unfortunately, as you signed them over.
But they are being utterly ridiculous, and they ARE pushing people towards backyard breeders.

If they say no, I'd tell them you will go to the press and tell everyone who wants to hear exactly how they operate, and why they are always so full....
Because their standards for rehoming a cat are higher than the government's standards for people who want to adopt a baby. AND that by refusing so many decent cat slaves the cat they could take very good care of, they are in fact making it worthwile for backyard breeders to keep selling kittens.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

What I don't understand is the link given only shows and mentions the mother and one kitten that has been rehomed together. Why have they not mentioned the other kitten that has survived. Don't they normaly tell more details about where they were found and if her other kittens had died. Are you sure this is actually one of her kittens?


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Yes it definitely is one of her Kittens, for some reason they have not mentioned the other 3. They never ever told us there was a fourth until yesterday when they went through the documents and told us a neighbor had reported it. They have been very hush, hush about the whole thing, they wouldn't even let us into the accommodation last weekend to see them.
It wouldn't bother me if they had said no in the start, but letting our children think for nearly two months that they are getting one of her Kittens. I think it's cruel. 
I know there is nothing really I can do to get this little one to our house now. But I will tell them I will be contacting the press and how we've been fobbed around and fobbed off. We have asked on several occasions if they could contact us when they were ready but they told us to keep an eye on the website. Then they came up yesterday reserved when they told us to telephone today to find out when they would be ready for re-homing.


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

SandyR said:


> What I don't understand is the link given only shows and mentions the mother and one kitten that has been rehomed together. Why have they not mentioned the other kitten that has survived. Don't they normaly tell more details about where they were found and if her other kittens had died. Are you sure this is actually one of her kittens?


I'm also a little confused about this kitten. If two of the kittens died and one has been rehomed ...I thought you had only found 3 kittens!? 

Anyway, I wish you luck with this. I share everyone's frustration with the rehoming policies of shelters. My children grew up with my last cat and she loved being in their company and would seek them out.


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

Sorry cross post I didnt see your response before posting.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Its ok I forgot to mention one of the kittens had wondered through the fence and we did not know about it.

Also I would like to say some of my comments are reading quite rash, it's just that I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall with this.


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

Aww it's no wonder though! ..you have been emotionally invested in these kittens for weeks already. I'd be equally as upset in your situation. 

Again, good luck!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Let's hope I can get her home and get some photo's of her on here!


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

I have nothing positive to say about the rspca at all..

Bit what I will say plus I hope it goes well for you and you can bring the kitten home..


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

I am sorry you have had a bad experience with the RSPCA but I would advise letting it go rather than getting yourself more and more angry about it.
Leave it a few weeks, and if you still really want a kitten try elsewhere.
Most rescues will not home with very young children but there is a reason for that.
The rescue I worked with was more flexible but I had a few families turn up to view kittens and there was no way I would have let their unruly kids take a kitten.
As I understand it you have not been told you are unsuitable as cat owners as you have been offered adult cats?
It is just that you want a kitten not a cat? May be you could as least consider the sense behind this suggestion before dimissing it out of hand.
Very young children can be rough with kittens, not intentionally but simply because they are young, small and lacking in understanding and a kitten is a baby too and must be treated gently.
Alternatively you could wait until the children are over 4. If most rescues prefer to home kittens to children over that age that should tell you something.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I think I would have one last try, turning up today _with the kids in tow_ so that you can demonstrate how calm they are around the cats ( hopefully! )
I have to say that I think it is UTTERLY ridiculous for rescues to have these blanket policies and to stick to them regardless of the individual circumstances. If nothing else comes of this, I think you should write to both to the charity itself and the local press highlighting this situation. No wonder the centres are over flowing!
OP...If you have the cash and the wherewithal then I suggest you look around at various pedigree breeds and pick a breeder who advertises their cats as 'bomb proof' and brought up with young children who can provide you with the kitten--or two---that will slot happily into your family life.


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## andcatmakes4 (Mar 3, 2012)

Hi Colley, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to say I too am from wirral, and have had trouble with the same place. 
When I was trying to get my second cat I wanted a kitten but they wouldn't let me have one as my youngest was only 18 months. So I ended up going elsewhere.

I understand why these cats are so special to you as they are kinda like your babies as they were born with you and you have tried your best to do whats best for them. I cant offer any help just wanted to show my support to a fellow Wirralite  

If you ever need a chat or moan. 
Best of luck with the centre today xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

colley614 said:


> Yes it definitely is one of her Kittens, for some reason they have not mentioned the other 3. They never ever told us there was a fourth until yesterday when they went through the documents and told us a neighbor had reported it.


They probably killed two of them.

Liz


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

As for cats and young children.....the two white cats I took on last year were living with two rambunctious, loud, bouncy toddlers in a small flat. Those two cats are the two most outgoing and friendly with strangers I have ever had, so being pulled about by toddlers did them no harm at all!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Most rescues will not home with very young children but there is a reason for that.


The reason is that the staff are not capable of making reasoned judgements and so ridiculous blanket rules apply. There are households with older children who shouldn't be allowed to keep a goldfish and households with younger children who would make great homes for animals. There's no magic transformation happens to all children on their fourth birthday.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

havoc said:


> The reason is that the staff are not capable of making reasoned judgements and so ridiculous blanket rules apply. There are households with older children who shouldn't be allowed to keep a goldfish and households with younger children who would make great homes for animals. There's no magic transformation happens to all children on their fourth birthday.


Well said, and I can see that it can be useful to have a _guideline_ policy about homing with children, but surely the whole point about a home visit is for an individual assessment of the circumstances.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Good luck today  I think you could have a battle on your hand, but you sound very determined!! 

I also have to agree that the rule about kids is a bit over the top. 

I found, with my daughter, that the older she got the rougher she got!! We got 2 kittens when she was about 18 months old. She was allowed to cuddle and play with them under supervision, but they soon got used to her carrying them under her arms. As they all grew up, they let her do anything ..... to the point of being put in a dolls pram with a blanket over them, and being pushed round the house 

Surely it makes sense to get a kitten earlier in life, than the magical age 4. Personally I found that age 4 is more of a tearaway age!!


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

Young kids are great with kittens. My kids were really kind and gentle. Now the cats are bigger they are actually a little bit naughty. Nothing bad just telling cat to go away and things if trying to interfere with toys or colouring. When they were kittens the kids thought they could do no wrong and were treasured so I would be more comfortable bringing in a kitten then an older cat. 

I think an older cat would be more fearful of noise and little hands where kittens are curious and often fearless after initial introductions. 

Rescues are odd. When I found a 10 week old kitten and rang a rescue they were quite happy for me to look after it till they had a place even though i said I had 2 young kids and 3 other cats but I don't think they would of let me adopt a kitten from them

Good luck.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

What I find odd is that on the basis of one post on this forum people seem to accept without question that the poster must be a good home for a kitten!
How can you possibly know?
Just as bizarre as some of the rules you are criticising the RSPCA or other rescues for!
At least the RSPCA have met the poster and family.
There are always 2 sides to every story.
Also comments like "being pulled about by 2 toddlers never did them any harm" 
just go to show why rescues have this rule.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

I'd like to point out that it wasn't one post but about ten that gave people the impression. I would also like to say that I never once posted that the Kitten would be pulled about by my children, only one of which is a toddler.
I did mention the fact the inspector arrived at my property with. Her mind made up. And when you say two sides to every story I have given unbiased information as I know that's the only way I would get a well informed response from you guys. You know I never started my post with 'once upon a time' but I will do my up most to get a 'happy ever after'!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

The very fact that the OP called in the RSPCA about kittens found on their propperty, and went through a lot of trouble to catch the kittens and their mother and take them to the RSPCA, who did not bother to come over and catch or even take them, themselves, says something about this family's dedication to these cats, IMO.

That, and the fact they kept in touch asking for updates on the cats, and, right from the start, indicating they wanted to offer one of them a home when they were old enough to be separated. They obviously bonded with this mother and kittens, and should have been treated more respectfully and most of all honestly.

Flippant remarks to 'keep an eye on the website' while, in the mean time, allowing other people to reserve them, is cheating. The people who rescued them in the first place should AT LEAST be given first choice in rehoming them.


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

colley614 said:


> Click the link and look at pen 3 rspcawirral
> 
> That's the Mum with the other little one.


omg this is my local RSPCA!!!! I cant believe theyve done this!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I've had nothing but trouble with the RSPCA - 23 years ago I went to choose a puppy having already had one 6 years previously (so already home checked etc). Boyfriend (now hubby) went off to park the car whilst I went in, I chose a lovely pup and was busy filling in the paperwork when in walked boyfriend (parking had been a nightmare so took him ages) - now I'd not been with him long, we weren't engaged etc, I wasn't living with him, but the RSPCA person took one look at his uniform and refused us the dog. He is RAF. Apparently ALL forces abandon their pets EVERY time they move and so NO I (not RAF, hubby only a boyfriend at this point) could not have a puppy. 

SO many times we have been told that! You are Forces so go away! This was one of the reasons I got into peds. Rescues with stupid policies that won't bend or flex! SOme won't home to indoor only, others to allowed outdoors, others to young kids, others won't allow another cat to be un-neutered (so have my queens I can't have a rescue too, but hubby is still in the RAF so wouldn't be allowed one anyway). 

Hundreds of cats lead miserable lives because of the inflexibility of many of the big rescues! It's stupid.

OP I feel for you but I don't think you will get anywhere.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

I looked at the rescues in my area when I was looking as Spid mentioned none would let me adopt as I wanted an indoor cat, they would only consider cats with health problems.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

colley614 said:


> Oh, we were also told today that the Kitten won't be ready for about 6 weeks, making her 15 weeks old. But the other Kitten was re-homed yesterday? If they say no I will be writing to both my local newspapers about the way we have been mistreated.


But, if I am reading all this correctly, this kitten has been re-homed WITH the mother...... If this is correct, that is a different situation as the kitten is still with the mum.

If mum & kitten have been re-homed separately then it may be that this kitten was stronger than the one remaining and - whilst everyone here agrees that kitts should stay with mum until 12 - 13 weeks - rescues (who SHOULD know better ) will normally let them go at 9 weeks. We like to give the benefit of the doubt in that they really need the space but if does not help in anyway to get the message across that the kittens are leaving mum too early. 

I have no time for the RSPCA at all and wish you all the best with your dealings with them. I hope your next post is one telling us you have your new kitty.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Just had our phone call and was told that we can't have the Kitten because our children would over power the Kitten. We were informed that the lady had received training and knew what she was talking about. I feel the Rspca should look at employing someone with people skills next time.


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## jess91 (Jun 28, 2011)

What a shame for you

I would dearly love to know what specialist 'training' this lady has had..


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

spid said:


> .
> Hundreds of cats lead miserable lives because of the inflexibility of many of the big rescues! It's stupid.
> .


That is not true.
Most cats in rescue will find good homes. The only ones that don't are the ones that are old, unattractive, have health problems, are bad tempered etc. 
as most people will not consider them. 
I wonder how you would feel if you found out that one of the kittens you bred was being mistreated by a child or was returned because the people had a baby. You may not be so keen on homing to kids in future. All rescues will have come across these situations many times so it is not surprising they are wary.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

scatchy said:


> That is not true.
> Most cats in rescue will find good homes. The only ones that don't are the ones that are old, unattractive, have health problems, are bad tempered etc.
> as most people will not consider them.
> I wonder how you would feel if you found out that one of the kittens you bred was being mistreated by a child or was returned because the people had a baby. You may not be so keen on homing to kids in future. All rescues will have come across these situations many times so it is not surprising they are wary.


People who already have children are less likely to rehome because another baby comes along as they know that the initial difficult baby stage is short and once the baby is sitting up etc things go back to being normal.

The young couples without kids yet are more a risk of rehoming when a baby comes along as they listen to silly tales and lovely cat it suddenly a problem not someone already dealing with kittens and young children.


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## Celador (May 12, 2011)

colley614 said:


> Just had our phone call and was told that we can't have the Kitten because our children would over power the Kitten. We were informed that the lady had received training and knew what she was talking about. I feel the Rspca should look at employing someone with people skills next time.


Sorry to hear this  Perhaps it's worth checking out other cat rescue centres in the area - assuming you're still interested in a kitten?

Chester Cat Care for example - my wife follows them on Facebook for updates and we've donated food to them before.

Chester Cat Care


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

colley614 said:


> Just had our phone call and was told that we can't have the Kitten because our children would over power the Kitten. We were informed that the lady had received training and knew what she was talking about. I feel the Rspca should look at employing someone with people skills next time.


I'm really sorry it wasn't good news!

I don't like being overly critical of rescue organisations as I can imagine the fate of many poor animals without them. But, I do think that if they had at least arranged a home check weeks ago (instead of telling you to keep checking the website) when you initially made them aware of your interest, it would have avoided a lot of hope and heartache.

If you believe everything happens for a reason ...maybe this situation will ultimately be what leads you to look for ...and find ...your special cat.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I wonder how you would feel if you found out that one of the kittens you bred was being mistreated by a child or was returned because the people had a baby


Why do I not have these problems as a breeder then? I have far more emotional attachment to my kittens than any rescue/rehoming establishment and yet I can consider each kitten enquiry on its merits without problem. I have had kittens go to single people who have subsequently married and had children. They still have the cat as part of their growing family. They have had babies who have grown through the toddler stage. Sometimes they have a toddler and come back to me for another kitten. Never a problem. This does rather suggest to me that a rescue centre's mantra that all small children hurt small animals can't be true and they are poor judges of a potential good home if they get so many returns.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> We were informed that the lady had received training and knew what she was talking about


Ah well, that makes it all OK then. My heart drops every time some idiot tells me they've 'been on a course'. I don't know why as it inevitably means they don't have a clue what they're talking about.


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I am getting married this year and we are hoping for children in the near future. I could never justify having a child as a reason to get rid of my cat! My friend was told by her doctor to get rid of her cat when she was pregnant and I thought it was rediculous. Luckily she refused. My parents always had cats and dogs when we were born and young. Why do people see it as an excuse to get rid? grrrrrrrrrrb:cursing:


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

colley614, I am truly sorry to read this whole sad story. Take comfort from the fact that you did your best for the mum and kittens, you deserve praise for this.
I would not blame you if you have gone off the whole idea of getting a pet now, but sleep on the decision.
Look around your area for a breeder who brings their cats up to be well socialised with young children and I am sure you will find an ideal, and much loved, family pet.
Keep us posted.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Take comfort from the fact that you did your best for the mum and kittens, you deserve praise for this


Hear Hear!


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Thanks guys. I really feel that I should pop in tomorrow and having a good chat with the manager and explaining my concerns.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

You sound like you would be a great cat mummy as you have invested so much time and emotion into these kittens and mum. 

So sorry that they have said no but please don't let this put you off as cats need great homes like yours sounds. 

Like others have said find a good breeder if you would still like a kitten or maybe an adult cat. Im sure a one year old cat would be considered safer around young children and they can be just as fun


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

I think we are going to have to get a Kitty now because our little girl keeps asking when we're picking it up. We never even told her we were getting one, she listened to what the centre manager was saying.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

spid said:


> Hundreds of cats lead miserable lives because of the inflexibility of many of the big rescues! It's stupid.
> 
> OP I feel for you but I don't think you will get anywhere.





scatchy said:


> That is not true. But I think it is!
> Most cats in rescue will find good homes.


Yes most do, but many don't and I would have had a few. Multiply that by the number of people that get turned down and you get hundreds. I like black cats, I like old cats, I would take on an ill cat etc but I'm not allowed - is that fair?! On me or the cats. 


scatchy said:


> The only ones that don't are the ones that are old, unattractive, have health problems, are bad tempered etc. as most people will not consider them.


 I would!


scatchy said:


> I wonder how you would feel if you found out that one of the kittens you bred was being mistreated by a child or was returned because the people had a baby. You may not be so keen on homing to kids in future. All rescues will have come across these situations many times so it is not surprising they are wary.


Well I would be mortified - *but it has never happened yet *- you need to pass a fair few probing questions to get a kitten from me (yes, I'm probably tougher than a rescue) and they are told to bring the cat back to me if there is a problem NOT to put it in rescue. I have 12 people on my list at the moment wanting kittens from Coda (and she's not even pregnant yet) - wanting a total of 14 kittens - once I meet everyone I will be able to whittle that down to those I trust. If I don't trust you you don't get a kitten. And, just because I've met you doesn't mean you get a kitten. These people will become my friends. I don't care if they have children because I believe that proper people will teach their children not to be horrid to animals just like I did with my three - I had kittens when they were young and none of them ever hurt an animal.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

But still..... it is different.
It will not be the cats she rescued, the ones she could not get out of her mind for all these weeks, the ones the entire family could not get out of their heads for all these weeks.

I think the manager should be made aware of the way people get attached to a pet they rescue. Over here, in the Netherlands, if a person brings in a stray and states the intention of offering it a home after the vet or rescue searching for an owner and the pet being checked and treated for any ailments, so, basicly, when it can be rehomed, they will be given first right of refusal.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

colley614 said:


> I think we are going to have to get a Kitty now because our little girl keeps asking when we're picking it up. We never even told her we were getting one, she listened to what the centre manager was saying.


I thought you might have that issue. I was thinking of getting a puppy and asked my little boy if I would mind because he is a little scared of some dogs and now he keeps asking me but I'm not 100 per cent sure yet. Wish I had never said anything now lol

It's up to you though. If your not sure just try to explain to little one.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

I'm going to speak to the manager and explain how I feel. I'm not going to cause a fuss but am going to mention that the inspector came and it was obvious we had been pre judged or the children anyway. Im going to point out the fact that not once when the manager and kitten was there with my wife and children did she have to ask us to restrain the children for behaviour. They were fantastic with her.

Me and my wife have always said that getting pets would be the icing on the cake of our family. If we have no luck then we will adopt another and give him or her a fantastic family home.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Celador said:


> Sorry to hear this  Perhaps it's worth checking out other cat rescue centres in the area - assuming you're still interested in a kitten?
> 
> Chester Cat Care for example - my wife follows them on Facebook for updates and we've donated food to them before.
> 
> Chester Cat Care


I'll look into this next


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I have heard so many horror stories about the RSPCA, stuff like not rehoming if you dont have a cat flap, if you work full time you cant get kittens, even if you want 2 etc. 

As far as kids and kittens are concerned, I havent really experienced them..I am about to experience my 2 year old sister and my 2 adult cats when she comes to stay which is concerning me slightly. I am not at all worried about her behaviour towards the cats, I have seen her with small dogs and shes amazing. My concern is that my 2 are scared of strange people at the best of times, nevermind a lively 2 year old running around, even if she isnt focusing on them. 

I can imagine a kitten growing up with a small child would get used to it a lot easier than an adult cat set in their ways. Not all kids are a menace to animals and its unfair on those people who bring up their kids properly. My fiances sister bought a puppy and she has 3 kids, 1 of whom was just shy of 2 years old, the other around 3 or 4. Puppy is now grown up, I havent seen them interact in a long time but I have heard they are all doing great. Dog loves the kids and the kids love the dog. I am sure they are probably a bit rougher than an adult but providing there is the correct amount of supervision, whats the problem?

Oh and another thing, my fiance was looking after my hamster many years ago whilst I was away. His other nephew (brother to above) must have only been about 3 and apparantly showed keen interest in the hamster but only through the cage as "he didnt want to get it out and it escaped"

So all of the above just goes to show how these policies are causing cats to lose out on great homes. 

Cats Protection seem to be much better, I rehomed through them and didnt have any issues. My mum had to rehome some stray kittens to them and they were reasonably quick about coming to trap them. She was given the option to keep them but she couldnt offer the right environment and they ended up in a farm which was perfect for them as they were a bit feral. 

Sorry I rambled...

OP its a shame you cant rehome the kitten you have clearly become attached to but definately try other rescues. Failing that, like others have suggested, try a pedigree.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm sorry this has turned out so disappointingly for you, I wonder if the cats went to a member of staff and thats why they mislead you so badly. 

We have two children under the age of five and there is no way that our local CP would even consider us if we were to apply with them. I find the idiocy of not treating people on a case by case basis infuriating and incredibly lazy. I have spoken with quite a few breeders recently and one of the first things I have told all of them is that we do have very young children, but that they have been properly taught how to treat animals and they are appropriately supervised. No problem, they have all been happy to make the judgment when they meet the children and myself. 

I wish some of the big rescues would adopt this approach. Its such a disservice to what they claim to be trying to achieve.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I was born into a house with animals and so were my children. It's just a given in such households that pets should be treated properly. I don't remember ever learning how, that would be as ridiculous as suggesting I remember learning how to walk or talk. I grew up knowing because that's the way the household was and so did my own children.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

I got our kittens from CP who we fantastic. Our local RSPCA, who have a 'no children under 5' policy when rehoming kittens also passed us after meeting our son. However six months after getting our kittens I was looking into getting another older kitten and called up Cats Trust. The lady told me this cat I had enquired about had been reserved for a friend of hers who 'might' be coming to the UK and who 'might' want him.

When I kept asking about him she asked about our household, and it seemed that as soon as she heard I had a 4 year old...Bingo!, she had her reason to refuse us, even though I told her how calm he was around our existing cats who we had since 9 weeks, and told her to come and meet him so she could see for herself how he gave the cats their space as we, as parents, had educated him about allowing cats to trust you first. She then said she knew all 4 years olds are not good with young cats as she worked as a teacher for many years!!

She then practically hung up. I was so pissed off I called Head Office and asked if they had a blanket policy about cat adoption and children. Lumping all kids together is like saying all cats need the same thing. Head office told me they didn't refuse adoption for families with young children and agreed with me when I said a young childless couple could suddenly have a child. Does that suddenly make them unsuitable to look after a cat? 

I was very upset even though I had cats already and took it very personally, so I totally understand how you must be feeling.

All I can say is please don't let them put you off adopting a kitten from a rescue. Some make you feel so sh*t, you truly wonder why you bother to try and do things the right way, but when you find a good rescue, they are brilliant in the advice they give and provide as much support as you need. My experience didn't put me off all rescues but I will always give Cats Trust a wide berth from now on. 

Sad that some know it alls think they are acting in the cats best interest but actually miss out a lot of good loving homes due to their misconceptions about young children and pets.

Good luck and I hope you find your new addition soon. X

PS. 6 months later 'Amber' was still on their website. I guess her friend didn't want him after all....


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## Archer (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that the blanket policies of welfare organisations have yet again meant another loving home doesn't meet the ridiculous criteria that welfare organisations set.

Please don't take it personally!! I find the most suitable homes often don't meet the inevitable wishlist.

My husband and I are unable to adopt animals as he is Armed Forces. I hand been heavily involved in welfare in the past and yet we are unsuitable on two counts. One is the Army tag the second is we work. No consideration given to the love, time and money we have to spare. We cannot give homes to abandoned animals so have had to buy pedigree animals who have the best we can give. 

Our first spaniel had a dog sitter, a new car a caravan and latterly his "brother" to meet his needs, we looked to adopt but got no response, refusals or outright rudeness. Laughably an ideal adoptee however was a woman on disability with no money and a dump of a house cos she was at home all day!!

I don't blame you for being angry. I find there is no negotiating with rescues as they have their own ridiculous critertia and will not budge.

I hope you find the right furbaby for your home.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

We'll get a Kitten from a local breeder. We have decided to get a little bit of work done to the house and start looking in a couple of weeks.

On another note, I've just found that you have a fish section. I'm off over there to help with some ill fish! :smilewinkgrin:


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## Peter Galbavy (Apr 29, 2010)

... and this kind of reason is the primary for me NEVER giving money to large charities like the RSPCA and why I will always happily repeat my poor experiences of them.

Like the NSPCC and other of a similar size with practise and great "think of the hardship" guilt-trip way of raising funds, the RSPCA is primarily there to make money for it's senior and/or full-time management and to garner privilege and access (think dodgy handshakes and nice "free" charity dinners and weekends away) for same said senior staff.

Corrupt and forgetting why they exist? Possibly.


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

Ragdolls Available - Ragdoll-Rescue


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Oh, I love Alfie and Sophie.......


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

Yeah they are so yummy


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

colley614 said:


> Thanks guys. I really feel that I should pop in tomorrow and having a good chat with the manager and explaining my concerns.


In your shoes I would do this. If you can keep the discussion to process failures and how these have led to your whole family being disapoointed, then I think they must take it on board. Even if you dont have the kitten you set your heart on, I think they need to know where their own processes (and people who insist on adhering to the letter of them) are failing

There are so many rules and regs to adopting, but people's circumstances change, and each cat has differing needs too. I was taken seriously ill 3 years after getting my first cat, and my circumstances changed enormously, both financially and socially (I had to give up work for a while, in and out of hospital, bed-bound for a time) , and I made sure that cats needs were catered for, but I suppose the assessment would have had a different outcome if done when I was ill.

Another example is that CP/RSPCA insist on cat-flaps here, however, for my cat it was disastrous - the postman unlocked the catflap in the front door and my new nervous cat escaped (now found). I am in the process of getting a new door sorted without a catflap - so I may be turned down by CP/RSPCA in future. If I am, I will go to a specialist breed (eg Persian cats) rescue.

The RSPCA will have formal complaint systems; the manager will have the details of this. I think if you get no joy with the manager, you should follow the complaint procedure, if nothing else it will highlight the hypocrisy in the systems, and variance between branches. (Actually I just tried to call my local branch to see if the same rule applied  but there was no response...it may be worth a call to another branch to see if they have similar rules)


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

I really feel sorry for the family concerned but surely they have made a judgement call , you can call it a bad one but that is life at times.Personally I would move on and try again maybe try the link I posted in this thread?. I would not take it personally. I am sure the RSPCA did not make its conclusion to make you feel bad


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

scatchy said:


> > All rescues will have come across these situations many times so it is not surprising they are wary.
> 
> 
> From what I know from one of my local cat rescue shelters this is unfortunately the case...
> ...


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I believe that much of this also comes down to the person who asses you.

I recall reading here on PF, not long after I joined last year, about a member whose mum was trying to adopt from her local RSPCA but had been turned down because she lived on a busy road.

Except that she didn't!!! She lived on a fairly quiet road and had ample garden space for the cat to explore and was looking to keep the cat contained to the garden (if my memory is correct).

She made such a fuss, they sent out a second assessor and was given the go-ahead. The second lady told the members mum that she couldn't really see what the problem had been.

I think some assessors are SO over-protective about placements that they make the situation of over-crowded rescues much worse because fewer cats actually get into a forever home and the BYB's have got ready-made customers from the rescue rejects.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I think that children from the age of about 7 or 8 upwards are the IDEAL companions for kittens, because they have enough energy to play with them and can look after them when Mum is getting the dinner etc!!! It is quite tiring to be running after a small kitten to ensure it stays safe, and to play with it with balls and small toys, and a child of this age is ideal as they can keep up!!! This is why I don't like the idea of using rehoming centres to get cats...........


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

colley614 said:


> Click the link and look at pen 3 rspcawirral
> 
> That's the Mum with the other little one.


I have fallen for pens, 9, 11, 16, 18, 19,22, 24 and 26.


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## Absentminded (Mar 11, 2012)

ella said:


> .
> 
> Another example is that CP/RSPCA insist on cat-flaps here, however, for my cat it was disastrous - the postman unlocked the catflap in the front door and my new nervous cat escaped (now found). I am in the process of getting a new door sorted without a catflap - so I may be turned down by CP/RSPCA in future. If I am, I will go to a specialist breed (eg Persian cats) rescue.


I know this is a little off topic, but Cats Protection don't insist on you having a cat flap. I got my cat Charlie from them in February and they weren't bothered at all that I don't have one. The homechecker was really laid back, and more concerned that we realised how much having a cat can cost (which we were as Charlie is our second cat.)


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## kelly-joy (Oct 14, 2008)

What I wrote on Animal Lifeline UK sums it up Please all read before looking at cats for adoption

*Never think that just because one rescue has turned you down that all rescues will; they each have their own criteria to determine which home is most suitable for which animal. Animals come into rescue from a variety of backgrounds and with their own specific needs and just because you may not be best placed to help one animal doesn't mean that there isn't another out there waiting for a home just like yours! What may be the perfect home for one animal could be the opposite for another.

In summary, please don't be put off by others posting on threads before you and please don't be put off from rescuing an animal just because one rescue turns you down. There are so many animals in rescues all over the UK so please keep trying; there will be at least one out there suited to you and your household.  
*


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

Absentminded said:


> I know this is a little off topic, but Cats Protection don't insist on you having a cat flap. I got my cat Charlie from them in February and they weren't bothered at all that I don't have one. The homechecker was really laid back, and more concerned that we realised how much having a cat can cost (which we were as Charlie is our second cat.)


Hiya

part of the problem is that some branches WILL insist and some dont mind.... and these inconsistencies can cause the problems...


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## Absentminded (Mar 11, 2012)

ella said:


> Hiya
> 
> part of the problem is that some branches WILL insist and some dont mind.... and these inconsistencies can cause the problems...


Oh yeah, I totally agree!
We were turned down by a local rescue centre without even being homechecked. They looked our address up on google maps and decided they didn't like where we live (too close to a road apparently.) The road in question is a single carriage way 30mph road....which we don't even live on, we live in a cul de sac. 
I was further upset by the email they sent saying that they felt they had to "give the cat a chance" and that it'd be "unfair on the cat to live so close to a dangerous road."


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Oh, I love Alfie and Sophie.......


I am quite keen on Thomas, I would have him in a heartbeat if I was allowed. I would quite like to take on an older cat to give them a great home to end their life in.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> part of the problem is that some branches WILL insist and some dont mind.... and these inconsistencies can cause the problems...


It isn't just different branches though, it's also individuals within a branch. The idea that people shouldn't take it personally and should trail round different rescue centres in the hope of being accepted by one is really taking it too far. Why should they when they can pick up a local paper and check the classifieds instead. Every time rescue staff refuse someone out of hand they push them into the arms of someone who has allowed their cat to have kittens. This may be a breeder with extremely high standards or (more likely) it will be an irresponsible owner who couldn't be bothered to get a cat spayed. Either way it's pretty damned hypocritical of rescues to complain about the number of unwanted cats and kittens when they are helping to create a market by their actions.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

This is a really good point. It's a shame that some people have had experiences with rescues that have put them off getting an animal from a shelter.

It would be great to have some consistency but I suppose the very nature of most rescues (relying on charitable funding and volunteers) means that this is unlikely to happen.


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just to point out as well I rang one CP branch which was nearer to me in miles to enquire about kittens but was told they wouldnt rehome to someone out of their "range" and to try my "local branch"

As it happens they were amazing and I didnt have an issue but what if they had turned me down for some mad reason? I couldnt go to the other CP branch as I wasnt in their area.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

I have to agree with Havoc. Whilst I would always get my cats and kittens from rescue I felt REALLY upset by the attitude I got from some rescues. I took it very personally as their judgements were not even based on what I was saying, they were making their own asumptions and two were just plain rude. (I would like to point out, even when they were rude, I never resorted to being nasty back and when given the chance still wished them well, so I knew it was not because of me being mouthy.)

Some were very nice and explained how they didn't have resources to do home checks for our postcode, which was totally understandable and I had no problem with it.

Some explained that certain older cats I had been looking at wouldn't suit our household because of the cats past experience with small children, which again I had no problem with, as the welfare of the cat comes first.

However, when you are told that NO cat or kitten is suitable and judgements are made on your child, family and the amount of dedication you can give, then I do object and I cannot help but take that personally.

I also don't think many people would feel they need to put up with that kind of insult so would go elsewhere, usually Gumtree/similar where a kitten is given without question, which we know, is not the best way to go about rehoming.

Would it stop me going to another rescue. No of course not, as my experience with North London CP and RSPCA as well as Battersea and Wood Green have been lovely. Luckily I have encountered more good volunteers and rescue workers than bad ones.


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## Peter Galbavy (Apr 29, 2010)

Reading all these other poor experiences with the RSPCA make me wonder how much of this is also down to the power-trip that individual "volunteers" get from being in such a position of strength?

Perhaps, in some cases, it is enough to highlight individual failings to an area office or some such - but in general I think it all builds into an institutional failing that in turn results in a complete failure to actually perform what the charity was there to do in the first place.

Oh, and greed. Did I mention greed already?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Some individuals are on a power trip without a doubt and they do so much harm because in many cases it's the manner of being turned down which is so hurtful. Consistency would be good, simple prior knowledge would save many a family petrol, wasted time and disappointment. If these organisations have the time to publish pics of the ever changing available animals on their websites you'd think they could put up a list of these 'rules'. People from the 'wrong' postcodes, families with small children wanting a kitten etc. would then know not to apply. In fact, a simple online application form could be programmed to give an instant answer of what they would be allowed - still subject to verification and home checks of course. That would be properly fair and objective so won't ever happen.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Some great points made above by Havoc and Peter Galbavy.
I was pondering this situation whilst stuck in traffic yesterday....

What if.....Rescues greatly relaxed their re-homing criteria so that many more people, in fact most, qualified to get cats from them? What if no adoption fee or charge was made? What if EVERY animal was neutered and innoculated before leaving the rescue? What if new owners were instructed that the animal could be returned to them without question at any time if circumstances changed? 
Who then would choose to buy a kitten from Gumtree or similar? I guess those who really wanted a Pedigree would still go down that route but surely hardly anyone else would? 
Obviously a lot of these suggestions go against the grain of how we animal lovers think a pet should be valued, but would this kind of set up actually ease the problem of a huge overflow of too many cats being bred?


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

What really strikes me more then anything about this thread is personal hurt folks feel when they are rejected by the RSPCA. I can fully understand how they must feel but I get the feeling if the reasons why they where rejected in the first place where explained to them face to face in a professional friendly manner with a willing to debate and take on board valid points it might be less distressing for all. With all the good will in the world there are going to be valid reasons why a placement cannot go ahead.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> With all the good will in the world there are going to be valid reasons why a placement cannot go ahead


Oh yes, but it should never be on a made up 'rule' based on personal prejudice or ignorance. Sadly this is the case currently.

There isn't a single reason why animals shouldn't be rehomed with owners in the armed forces. In my (inside) experience pets are one of the most valued things to a forces child. They are the stability and comfort in an otherwise uncertain world and adored. A postcode lottery strikes me as ridiculous *unless* it's someone living in a small flat wanting a large dog or the like. The utter stupidity of this kittens and small children rule absolutely astounds me. My family is now grown and I have to borrow other people's children to help socialise every litter of kittens. I have children of all ages playing with my kittens from around 4 weeks. Those children are so proud and I've delighted in hearing a 3 year old inform her father that he can't touch because he hasn't 'been trained'.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

It appears that quite a few people have had negative experiences with a rescue that has left them disgruntled and with a negative views of rescue in general.
Please consider that there are hundreds of rescues (probably thousands) both large and small in this country. They are run by all different people with their own ideas and ways of doing things. They are not all the same.
Please take into account that rescuers make the rules they have because of the negative experiences they have had.
Everyone beleives they are an ideal owner but sadly when you run a rescue you find that time and time again people let you down. 
The rescue I used to work with had a standing joke that no cat was crossed off the homing list until it had been in it's new home a month because quite a number get returned.
Yes we always did home visits and went through all the relevant issues but when people want something they only see the positive and close their ears to any negative aspects you raise.

The people who run rescues do not know you personally they have to make their judgements on certain criteria. If you do not have any luck with the first rescue you approach, try another one. If everyone turns you down then perhaps you should be listening to why they are all turing you down.

One other point: the poster has been congratulated for "rescuing" a cat and kittens when all they have done is hand them over to the RSPCA.
yet the rescues who take in hundreds of cats and kittens every year and care for them on an ongoing basis are getting a lot of criticism. 
How very sad.
Rescues need your support. Please try to see past the personalities and remember why rescues exist - to help animals.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The rescue I used to work with had a standing joke that no cat was crossed off the homing list until it had been in it's new home a month because quite a number get returned


Which surely has to mean they're getting it wrong - doesn't it?


> The people who run rescues do not know you personally


I don't know the people who come to me for a kitten either. Nor does any breeder but we don't have this problem with 'returns'. Why?


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

"Oh yes, but it should never be on a made up 'rule' based on personal prejudice or ignorance. Sadly this is the case currently. "

Then that is drastically wrong and should be reported to the appropriate organization. I am sure the persons line manager would be very interested that a member of there team is demonstrating personal prejudice against clients.
I served in the RN for 12 years and had marriage quarters in Gosport one of the biggest social issues we had was abandoned cats in fact we where told when we moved into a quarter we would inherent a few cats that previous owners had left. Not trying to suggest that all members of the MOD would just abandon pets when posted but there are always two sides to the coin. I am just very glad it is not me who would have to make a decision who can and can not adopt


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I served in the RN for 12 years and had marriage quarters in Gosport on of the biggest social issues we had was abandoned cats in fact we where told when we moved into a quarter we would inherent a few cats that previous owners had left


So did you 'inherit' a few cats. Did you take them in and take them with you when you moved? When proper investigation is done into this supposed problem it's often found that all these 'abandoned' cats are closely related and in fact a local, semi feral community. Until proper testing was available the increasing numbers were blamed on a transient population.

I was born into and married into the forces. I've never known a forces family simply abandon an animal they actually owned when they moved, though admittedly it wasn't the Navy so maybe they have a different attitude. Maybe I should now decide a Naval family can never have one of my kittens.


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

"So did you 'inherit' a few cats. Did you take them in and take them with you when you moved?" 

No they where not my cats. We made a conscious choice of no pets whilst I was in the "RN".

"Maybe I should now decide a Naval family can never have one of my kittens"

Is not that being rather prejudice ?

And this is the issue folks will disagree who should and who should not have Kittens/dogs etc and its a shame because we all have the animals welfare as our first priority


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Is not that being rather prejudice ?


Exactly my point. It would be completely irrational and prejudiced - just like the the blanket rules made by rescue organisations.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I think they had promised the cats to other people and they should have been honest from the start, I also think that individuals should be judged and not all put in the same basket. However speaking from the other side, I volunteer in a cat shelter and we have real horror stories there. We have Lucia who was taken out of her own home with a court order because her 14 year old owner was abussing her, she was in a state when she came in all teeth and claws, nervous. The child had issues and she took them out on the cat. Boys are also rough, I remember my brother when we were little spinning my cat by the tail and me screaming at him, now he is ashamed of it when I remind him but it happens in many houses. My nephews come running into my house and their sole purpose is to get Merlin who just tries to run away and hide, they even pursue him to his litter box so I suffer in all their visits trying to keep an eye on them without being stern as their mother won´t like it. I love them to bits but sometimes I wish they stayed at home. These are a few examples and yes parents don´t always correct their kids, as long as they are disturbing the cat and not them, it´s fine. So although I am sure that you will be lovely cat owners and that you will find a shelter that will see beyond the kids, these rules exist for something. In my shelter we don´t like owners to allow outdoor unsupervised visits, we rather they didn´t adopt them than to hear two days later "it just ran into the road" or "I didn´t see the car coming". We dont spend so much time caring for them so someone else can go and mistreat them. But I would have given you a cat after the home visit personally if all that you are writting here is true as I think your family is very suitable. It is very healthy for kids to grow up with pets, it makes them more balanced but parents have to be very vigilant and involved, it is not just a cat.


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## Rikalaily (Apr 2, 2012)

Thier rules must have changed since I got my RSPCA cat, I adopted him 9 years ago when my eldest child was 1 and he was only 9 weeks old. So sad that they have these rules, I've got 4 kids ranging from 2-10 and 4 cats who are 9 & 8 and two are 1.5, the kids have never been an issue with any of the cats and we have just adopted a 5 month old boxer/rottweiler cross from our local boxer rescue and the kids are great with him too.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

havoc said:


> Which surely has to mean they're getting it wrong - doesn't it?
> 
> I don't know the people who come to me for a kitten either. Nor does any breeder but we don't have this problem with 'returns'. Why?


No it does not mean we were getting it wrong it means people are not always realistic or honest.

I do not think selling pedigrees is the same. 
First the numbers you sell are few in comparison, a handful a year as opposed to hundreds.
Also the time scale - people usually have to wait weeks to get a pedigree kitten and the timewasters often fall by the wayside while waiting. 
Rescue kittens are often chosen and homed within a couple of days so people do not always have the time to get "cold feet".
People returned kittens for such reasons as "don't like having a litter tray indoors "- we did tell them they would need a litter tray!
" I have been invited away for the weekend and have no-one to look after the kitten" - oh, so what happened to that neighbour you said was happy to to do it? 
" the cat won't sit on my lap" - well you have only had it 2 days and we did tell you he would take time to settle in.
I have even had someone return a cat because after they had it a week they decided "I just don't want a cat after all."

People are very fickle and that is why a lot of rescues make their own rules and stick to them because whatever people say you cannot rely on them - better to rely on yourself.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Thier rules must have changed since I got my RSPCA cat


I doubt it as I doubt that these 'rules' really exist except as local prejudices.



> I remember my brother when we were little spinning my cat by the tail and me screaming at him, now he is ashamed of it when I remind him but it happens in many houses. My nephews come running into my house and their sole purpose is to get Merlin


Well there are two households with appalling children where animals shouldn't be allowed. When children are properly brought up they don't need correcting because they wouldn't behave like that in the first place.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

merlin12 said:


> My nephews come running into my house and their sole purpose is to get Merlin who just tries to run away and hide, they even pursue him to his litter box so I suffer in all their visits trying to keep an eye on them without being stern as their mother won´t like it.


Hard luck for their mother, I'd say...
If she doesn't teach them to leave the cat alone, or in general, to behave themselves in someone else's house, I would. They are in your house, harassing your cat, so you have every right to be as stern as YOU deem necessary to make them stop.
In fact, the mother should do it herself, instead of leaving it up to you.

If she isn't stern with her sons if they deserve it at this age, what kind of teenagers and adults will they become?
Most certainly not the ones I'd like to know or work with.....

They will have to learn to have some concern for other people and for animals, and to adapt to other people's rules and demands, or they will never be able to hold a job.
And the younger they learn, the better.

It is not the children that are a liablity with pets, it is parents who refuse to properly raise and educate their children, parents who refuse to put them in their place when they overstep the mark. Children need to learn to abide by the rules of society, and that begins by having clear rules in the house and abiding by them.

And you will find many children will in fact be grateful to you for setting clear rules, it makes them feel secure to know that as long as they abide by the rules, they will not get in trouble. But that means the rules must be clear, and the same sanction must follow breaking them every time they do. Not letting it pass one day and punishing the nexrt...


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

merlin12 said:


> My nephews come running into my house and their sole purpose is to get Merlin who just tries to run away and hide, they even pursue him to his litter box so I suffer in all their visits trying to keep an eye on them without being stern as their mother won´t like it.


My children are 21 months and 4 years old. If they did this I would put them straight back in the car and take them home (using the journey for a lovely long, boring telling off ), and I would do the same thing everytime they did it until they got the message. Likewise, if my niece and nephew did the same to my cat in my home, I would feel comfortable telling them off because its MY HOUSE and basic manners dictate that they should adhere to MY RULES.

Its easy to blame the children, but its the adults that should be setting the boundaries and enforcing the rules.

I feel for you that you don't have the mothers support in telling them off because it puts you in a tricky position. I really dislike lazy parenting.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree 100% but sisters-in-law don´t always like their kids to be corrected. They love Merlin but I keep telling them to go slowly that he is scared plus Merlin is not the friendliest cat, to them it´s fun, for me it makes me nervous.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

These horror stories of naughty children with cats reminds me of when my friends children came round to play, they wouldnt leave Dizzy alone because shes so tiny and kittenlike, I kept telling them to leave her and they wouldnt so I asked their mum who said "its only a cat, they just want to cuddle it, they wont hurt it", so I told them to go and give the nice big ginger one a cuddle , Elvis didnt play nicely back then , they are still terrified of cats to this day. My friend has never let them touch a cat in my house since then, win win if you ask me


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

merlin12 said:


> I agree 100% but sisters-in-law don´t always like their kids to be corrected. They love Merlin but I keep telling them to go slowly that he is scared plus Merlin is not the friendliest cat, to them it´s fun, for me it makes me nervous.


I agree, the in law status makes it harder to say something, my sister in law used to let her then 4 year old carry around my five month old baby! At the time I found her quite intimidating so I didn't want to outright tell her she was being a moron, I just hovered around the four year old and took my daughter back asap. It wasn't until my father in law saw her do this one day and bellowed at her that it was a ridiculous thing to do that I realised I needed to be a whole lot more forthright. I am now and we get along better for it.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

not my case, we have a relationship where if we want peace we have to humour her. She is good when everything is ok. First they were scared of Merlin and would climb the couch with their shoes on (the mum didnt tell them to take them off) then they lost their fear and now it´s spending a lot of time with Merlin.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> we have a relationship where if we want peace we have to humour her


Do you know I feel so sorry for you. One day you'll learn it just isn't worth it and giving in to it doesn't earn you any respect. It's your house so your rules. If they don't like it they needn't bother coming round. I think we're all fed up with parents who can't be bothered to parent and expect the rest of us to put up with the results.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I've always told off kids who come to my house if after explaining the rules they don't comply. If their mum is annoyed at that then she needs to go way! I don't 'do' friends like that or relatives!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Mind you, I am not judging you, it's your family, and you may have the entire family against you if you stood up against her, but you'd do yourself, Merlin AND her children a favour by telling them off good and proper and tell her to stay away till she accepts that.
In law or no, she would not be allowed into my house again if I had to suffer the misbehaviour of her children in order to prevent a scene with her.

Is she your brother's partner, or your partner's sister, or even sisrter-in-law?
If she is your brother's partner, I'd have a word with him, if she is your partner's sister, I'd have a stiff talk with your partner, rather than handling the in-law, directly.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

believe I would loose here as I have to put sseing my nephews and my relationship with my brother at risk. Lets hope when they visit this year they don´t have such interest in Merlin. They are good kids just hiper, they only want to stroke Merlin the problem is that I feel children do not interest him at all, he tries to keep well out of their way.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

So you think that telling her children to leave the cat alone would ruin your relationship with her? She is some mean woman then! Can you not explain to her that Merlin has a problem and you are worried that the kids will get scratched? Alternatively every time they go for the cat then get out the playdoh etc. Or hide Merlin away in a room and lock the door. 

I have an appalling relationship with my sister-in-law (I got pregnant before her, didn't know she was even trying, and that was that - I have been persona non grata ever since - I don't care) we still see her, still see the kids that she finally had, they've always been told things like 'don't jump on the sofas please, that's the rules in this house.' and they and her have accepted it. Surely you could say, 'Merlin's feeling a wee bit upset and needs some alone time, so the rule in this house is don't chase after him and let him come to you.' Follow it up with, 'Mummy will ask me when she thinks it's time for Merlin to have a stroke.' That way you put all the power back into sils hands and get your own way too.

Life's too short to bother with peole who are arses. (sorry)


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Life's too short to bother with peole who are arses.


Too true. Unfortunately it takes some of us far too long to realise that and we try to be polite and accommodating in the hope that things will come good. They don't. From my own bitter experience I can honestly say freedom and contentment comes from standing your ground, especially with family.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> Too true. Unfortunately it takes some of us far too long to realise that and we try to be polite and accommodating in the hope that things will come good. They don't. From my own bitter experience I can honestly say freedom and contentment comes from standing your ground, especially with family.


No they don't - they often get worse as people treat you as a door mat then - been there with a supposed best friend - it was hard but in the end standing my ground was the only way forward and she was well out of my life!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> They are good kids just hiper


You obviously believe they have the potential to be good but they're not at present. Children ARE capable of behaving well if they know nothing else is acceptable. It IS the responsibility of the parents to ensure they do so. One of the greatest gifts a parent can give a child is to ensure they are truly welcome everywhere.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

scatchy said:


> No it does not mean we were getting it wrong it means people are not always realistic or honest.
> 
> I do not think selling pedigrees is the same.
> First the numbers you sell are few in comparison, a handful a year as opposed to hundreds.
> ...


Good post

My gosh, it is barely credible that people who apparently want a cat/kitten can be so ignorant of, and insensitive to, a cat's most basic needs and can be so completely non-cat centred!!

No wonder the rescue shelters become cynical and are so careful about prospective adopters!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

merlin12 said:


> believe I would loose here as I have to put sseing my nephews and my relationship with my brother at risk. Lets hope when they visit this year they don´t have such interest in Merlin. They are good kids just hiper, they only want to stroke Merlin the problem is that I feel children do not interest him at all, he tries to keep well out of their way.


I must say Merlin you are extremely _longsuffering_ I am afraid my niece and nephew would be given only one chance, on their first visit,, to treat my cats with proper respect, and do as I asked if I told them to leave the cats alone.

If they did not comply with my rules, then the next visit my cats would be safely locked away in one of my bedrooms with their litter tray, food and water, and the kids would never see them. (the key would be safely hidden away!)

If questions were asked by my sister in law I would just say my cats do not like visitors much, because they are not used to noise & bustle and are happier secluded upstairs for the duration. This way it doesn't sound as though the kids, or SIL's parenting skills are being blamed as such.

All the begging in the world from my niece and nephew to 'play' with the cats would fall on deaf ears as far as I'm concerned

The way I see it, the only person in the world who is as important to me as my cats is my OH. So my cats' happiness (and my OH's!) come above everything else.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Rescue kittens are often chosen and homed within a couple of days


Not through the RSPCA they aren't. People have to wait on home checks.
Off course for many organisations boomerang animals are money in the bank. I have no idea what the RSPCA currently demand as a donation for a kitten but it's usually around twice the price of an adult cat and last time I knew it was £80 at my local centre. If someone needed to return a kitten to me within a month they'd get their money back but this isn't the case with the 'donations' to rescue centres. They can effectively sell that kitten over and over again and keep the money.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

havoc said:


> Not through the RSPCA they aren't. People have to wait on home checks.
> Off course for many organisations boomerang animals are money in the bank. I have no idea what the RSPCA currently demand as a donation for a kitten but it's usually around twice the price of an adult cat and last time I knew it was £80 at my local centre. If someone needed to return a kitten to me within a month they'd get their money back but this isn't the case with the 'donations' to rescue centres. They can effectively sell that kitten over and over again and keep the money.


Sell the kittens? So you think food , litter, worming, flea treatments, staff, heating, etc are free?
An adult cat usually costs £60/£70 from most rescues that does not even cover the cost of spaying let alone anything else!


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

yes well, I see that talking is worse than not talking in my family situation. For me Merlin is very important but I know for most people around me, he is just a cat. Sometimes I just tell them to wait for him as he is scared and they impatiently do so. I´m hoping when they visit this year they will be calmer. I don´t have kids and Merlin isn´t used to that much energy so I would love to educate them (without SIL and them knowing it) to respect the cat´s feelings. What I was trying to say with all this is that some parents take their time in educating their kids about being around animals but some just don´t care so I understand shelters being strict (not saying it is the OP´s case). Lot´s of kids are cruel when small, sometimes out of jealousy and the most defenseless will always be the cat. This same brother of mine later was the one who gave CPR to one of our cats tears running down his face when he came home to die (we were much younger then) but now we are much older I remind him of the cat tail incident and I see he is embarrased about it, for him it was probably like taking my fav doll to get me to chase after him for me it wasn´t.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

havoc said:


> Why do I not have these problems as a breeder then? I have far more emotional attachment to my kittens than any rescue/rehoming establishment .


Meant to reply to this. If you really think that, it just goes to show how little you understand about animal rescue.
When you take in a cat/kitten in a poor condition and care for it for weeks and restore it to health you become very emotionally attatched to it.
Many new fosterers are unable to rehome their first foster kittens because they form a strong attatchment to them. 
Why do you think many rescues are so picky about the homes their animals go to - because they care about that animal as an individual.
There will always be a few rescues that fall below standard but I have encountered some appalling cat breeders in my time with filthy homes & sick kittens.
Even some of the more conscientious ones do not have much emotional attatchment to their cats because they are quite happy to rehome them when they can no longer breed from them or if they decide they prefer some new breed they have seen.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

scatchy said:


> > Even some of the more conscientious ones do not have much emotional attatchment to their cats because they are quite happy to rehome them when they can no longer breed from them or if they decide they prefer some new breed they have seen.
> 
> 
> Yes, I have always found this an astonishingly callous attitude of some breeders When the cat is no longer a useful resource for them to earn money from, then they can be disposed of without a thought on Gumtree or wherever. Never mind the loyalty the cat has shown them, or the upheaval the cat will go through settling in to a new environment.
> ...


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## Peter Galbavy (Apr 29, 2010)

scatchy said:


> Sell the kittens? So you think food , litter, worming, flea treatments, staff, heating, etc are free?
> An adult cat usually costs £60/£70 from most rescues that does not even cover the cost of spaying let alone anything else!


Erm, how many times do you have to neuter one animal ?

Why do they raise money as a charity ? Why do they enjoy the many tax benefits of a charity ?

Why do they *insist* on donations - which are technically voluntary, else how can they be donations that are classed as such by the tax man and not income ?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I have no heartache with them getting all the benefits of charitable status. It may surprise people on here to know I'm an RSPCA approved home and I always have a rescue mog as part of my household. It's because I believe in rescue work that I want them to get it right. They need to realise they can only exist with the help of the public. They can start to become very insular and individuals do 'train' new workers/volunteers in their own private prejudices. The good ones are fantastic. The bad ones are frankly dangerous and doing their organisations no favours.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> An adult cat usually costs £60/£70 from most rescues that does not even cover the cost of spaying let alone anything else!


I'd suggest finding another vet then. That's retail price and no vet I know doing work for recognised rescues charges them full retail.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

havoc said:


> I'd suggest finding another vet then. That's retail price and no vet I know doing work for recognised rescues charges them full retail.


Sorry Havoc but you are being far too sweeping in your statement again . Round here £60 is with a discount and there is not much point in finding a vet miles away and having to pay pounds for all the extra petrol.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

Peter Galbavy said:


> Erm, how many times do you have to neuter one animal ?
> 
> Why do they raise money as a charity ? Why do they enjoy the many tax benefits of a charity ?
> 
> Why do they *insist* on donations - which are technically voluntary, else how can they be donations that are classed as such by the tax man and not income ?


I think my initial statement actually anwers your point.
They need your donation to pay for the animals care.
What do want a free kitten and let someone else pay for it in the form of their donations not yours. 
I fostered a mum cat and four kittens last year. The kittens were 3 weeks on arrival, and I had them until 10 weeks - so 7 weeks of food & litter, they were wormed twice, had their first vaccinations, they needed treatment for an eye infection on arrival. Mum cat had to be spayed and stayed a further 2 weeks before being rehomed. 
I provided the litter trays, toys scratching post , bed, feed bowls at my expense but just the food and litter costs add up. Without donations the rescues could not continue.
The rescue I was fostering for request a minimum "donation" of £40 , I think that is fair and reasonable.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

In my shelter for example where there is no government help, we have vet bills to pay all the time and cats keep coming in, they need the money from donations to take care of them. So it is proper to ask for a donation, especially as it all goes back into the shelter. The founder of the shelter was not asking outright for a fee, I told her she had to, explaining exactly why to avoid confusions.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The 'donations' from people taking an animal from a shelter don't go anywhere near paying to keep it going. There's also a huge need for funds from elsewhere and bad publicity affects that funding. The person you piss off today is the one who doesn't ever put money in your pot again and what's more they tell plenty of people about their bad experience. However much staff and volunteers work in these places because of their concern for animals they do also need people skills. It's often forgotten or sometimes they become so disillusioned because they only see the bad side. It's a bit like long-serving coppers who spend their whole life dealing with villains. They can forget there are perfectly reasonable people around.


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## miggs (May 6, 2012)

Some points I would like to make to the original thread theme. 

1 The "RSPCA is a huge organization that employes a multitude of staff."

2 The selection of who does and who does not fit adoption criteria for cats will by its very nature be selective and easy to attack and some will not agree. 

3 The placement of kittens with young kids is again argumentative with so many factors and considerations to be taken into account. Not all kids are the same equally households. It is easy to critical of the "RSPCA" in this specific case but they have not had the luxury of putting across there side of the story.

The RSPCA does some wonderful work in this country and without doubt does get it right the majority of times.


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## Duchess (Sep 1, 2010)

Wow, I am a little shocked at the things that have come to light in this thread!

So sad that someone willing and able to re-home would be overlooked simply because they do not conform to seemingly strict criteria, it does make me wonder how many people that there are who actually DO fit all of the criteria 

I have a son (4 1/2) and cat (2 1/2) I am horrified at some of the stories on here regarding children and pets hmy: I grew up with cats and finally had the opportunity to have my own when my son was a toddler. To me this was a good time as my son has learnt to respect animals and how to look after them etc. I have NEVER seen him tease our cat nor pull her tail, hit or kick at her. I find that if my son is having a mad half hour the cat will just ignore or choose to sit on one of her perches. They have a friendship and our cat will quite willingly go to my son if she wants a fuss and he will play with her and under supervision I let him feed her (he often asks). My cat is also my shadow, wherever I am guaranteed she won't be more than 2 feet away.

IMO children are like adults, as in some are naturally good with animals others not. Surely when someone comes for inspection they should be able to use some initiative and assess each case individually?

By the sound of it, if it had been that we had gone to the rspca to re-home a cat then we would have been turned down


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## Guest (May 17, 2012)

miggs said:


> Some points I would like to make to the original thread theme.
> 
> 1 The "RSPCA is a huge organization that employes a multitude of staff."
> 
> ...


I think that is debatable  In my opinion they get it wrong more than they get it right


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

Duchess said:


> By the sound of it, if it had been that we had gone to the rspca to re-home a cat then we would have been turned down


It would depend on which branch you approached, and then which home checker, and then whetehr he/she was having a bad day or not.

I think that is what is most unfair, the rules are not open, fair, and consistent across the country.

We often see adverts to adopt cats/dogs, however, it can seem that the RSPCA (and CP) are more happy to run a type of mini empire than actually think that a cat would be better off in a home that doesnt fit the homechecker's ideal one than spend months in a cage at their depressing rehoming centres, getting more and more stressed (or worse, PTS).


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't think people will ever agree about the issue of homing kittens with very young children.
I personally think it should be done on an individual basis but that is not easy.
Even if you do a home visit few parents will accept a negative decision.
Nearly all parents think their children are okay with animals and will always take a refusal as a personal insult if you dare to suggest that their offspring are not yet ready for a pet.
Anyway why is it that parents cannot wait until the children are a bit older?
The usual reason seems to be that they "want the child to grow up with the kitten" .Well you have to remember the kitten is the priority of the rescue not the child and most people in rescue do not look on their kittens as some sort of educational rescource.
Even older children can cause problems - several times I had "well behaved" children race in and grab a kitten , the kitten tries to cling on with his claws at which point the child drops it and the kitten lands with a splat on the floor.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

ella said:


> It would depend on which branch you approached, and then which home checker, and then whetehr he/she was having a bad day or not.
> 
> I think that is what is most unfair, the rules are not open, fair, and consistent across the country.
> 
> We often see adverts to adopt cats/dogs, however, it can seem that the RSPCA (and CP) are more happy to run a type of mini empire than actually think that a cat would be better off in a home that doesnt fit the homechecker's ideal one than spend months in a cage at their depressing rehoming centres, getting more and more stressed (or worse, PTS).


I agree with this, often the homechecker's ideal home mirrors their own. As many of them are retired or do not have children at home or work full time (which are all reasons that they have the time to volounteer in the first place) they don't look any further than their own personal tick list - we are all human and I can understand how it happens, but it vastly limits the field of homes that the cats can go to.


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## colley614 (May 12, 2012)

Just read about 4 pages of posts so I'm going to try to respond to as many posts as I can. 

First of all, the reason why I wanted a Kitten with children so young if you read my first post they were not general Kittens. They were born at the same address as I lived when I was new born, that my Mum was born in. My children are really well behaved, what made me laugh was they said my children would over power the Kitten but the whole time she was here my youngest Son sat on the chair watching toy story 3 and he tried to tell her " Look it's Woody and Buzz." But he was ignored. Funny I think she is the only person who has ever come to my house and not noticed how advanced my Children's speech is. If they mumble or talk with their dummy in we take it out and ask them to repeat what they've said and their speech is fantastic for the extra effort.

Secondly this woman came pre-judged. When asking questions she never once gave me any feedback. When she asked where the food would be kept I showed her but I was saying things like maybe here? I was thinking this? But not once did she say well personally I would....or you could try this....
She even tried catching me out a couple of times. Couldn't though.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

I did not get my kittens for my children to grow up with them. I got my kittens because I was ready for them and they are my pets. I am the slave not my children. I know how to bring my kids up to respect animals. I have always taken them to petting zoos etc and shared my love of furry things so I had no concerns. We have had birds and guinea pigs since before they were born. Besides I never would leave them unattended with a kitten anyway and they were not allowed to pick them up. My kids are not really excited about little animals they are part of their everyday world so adding cats to our furry friends was never a major issue. Not everyone needs to wait till kids are older. 

My nephews are completely different. They are hardly ever at my house but when they have been they just want to grab anything and they are 5 so probably a more acceptable age for a rescue. You can tell they don't have their own pets and everything is new and to be explored regardless of if it a living creature. 

So in my experience if they grow up with animals from being a baby they really learn a greater respect and do give the animal the space it needs to be happy.


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## retepwaker (Dec 5, 2011)

these storyes make me wunder what the world is cuming to like the spech we got from merving king the guvener


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

retepwaker said:


> these storyes make me wunder what the world is cuming to like the spech we got from merving king the guvener


Don't want to be rude, but can someone explain/translate this?
Can't make head or tail of this post.
Are you taking the mickey?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

chillminx said:


> scatchy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I have always found this an astonishingly callous attitude of some breeders When the cat is no longer a useful resource for them to earn money from, then they can be disposed of without a thought on Gumtree or wherever. Never mind the loyalty the cat has shown them, or the upheaval the cat will go through settling in to a new environment.
> ...


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

My future kids will be definately growing up with cats, assuming nothing bad happens to my cats now and we do have kids aged around the 30 mark, then my cats will be around 6 years old. 

If they were older and probably not going to make the kids being 4 then I would definately be getting kittens once they had passed on because I always want a cat in my life. 

However, I do think its good for kids to be around animals, I was 6 when I was given my first pet (a rabbit although I really wanted a cat) and although I didnt do a great job of looking after it (well I was 6) I think it was beneficial for me to be given a part in taking care of something even though I did get fed up once the novelty wore off. Providing there is a responsible adult willing to take on the responsibility of the pet, regardless of its species then I dont see a problem. 

I am expecting a visit from my 2 year old little sister and if the cats actually stay in the same room as her, I expect her to behave properly. If they want her to she is allowed to stroke them but there will be no chasing, no pulling of fur or tails or general mishandling. Its not something I worry about as she is already well behaved around animals, my dad is doing a good job of teaching her stuff like "dont touch the strange dog until I say its ok" which I think is a very important lesson. Once the owner has ok'ed the dog then she is allowed to stroke but gently. 

However, in defense of the rescues, how do they know how a child is brought up? Some kids are not taught right from wrong, we all know this but is it obvious to a home checker how the kids behave? If it isnt then I suppose I can understand their rules but on the other hand, just because a child is 7, it doesnt mean they know how to behave around animals, if they arent taught then they will never know.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

One of the reasons I would prefer a kitten to go to a home with older children is not just their behaviour (though that is very important) but a question of development.
A very small child is not really able to hold a kitten safely and securely. 
They are also not as emotionally developed so cannot empathise with a kitten in the same way. They will wake it up when sleeping, try to use it as a toy, not maliciously but just through lack of understanding.
Many rescues will suggest an adult cat or older kitten of about six months for families as they will be able to resist such treatment by simply jumping out of the childs way, etc.
Unfortunately most people won't consider this(as in the case of the op) but only want a young kitten. It makes me think it is more about people getting their own way than any real desire to offer a home to a cat that really needs one. 
A kitten- cat of 6 months plus can be just as much fun and needs a home every bit as much as a tiny one.

Also not all rescuers are old fogeys! I am now, but I was only 18 when I rescued my first kittens and about 25 when I started volunteering for a rescue group doing everything from home checks to fostering and fundraising.
I was with that group for over 20 years and although volunteers come and go there always seemed to be a wide age range .
So I would still say if one rescue turns you down and you really beleive you can offer a good home to a kitten ( or better still a cat) try another one. Often the small independent rescues are more flexible.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

ella said:


> We often see adverts to adopt cats/dogs, however, it can seem that the RSPCA (and CP) are more happy to run a type of mini empire than actually think that a cat would be better off in a home that doesnt fit the homechecker's ideal one than spend months in a cage at their depressing rehoming centres, getting more and more stressed (or worse, PTS).


I had cause to speak to our local CP a few years ago. I was obtaining information on behalf of my then scabby neighbours. The woman I spoke to was a disgrace to this society and was really quite rude. She asked where I lived and when I told her my street name, well she went right off on one!!!  Now I'll be the first to admit that I don't live in a Mayfair or Park Lane type of environment but my street is NOT as run-down and horiffic as she was making out.

When OH & I decided to extend our little cat empire last summer, I knew that I was p*ssing into the wind in getting a rescue from my local CP due to my address.

I was also then worried that I might have the same problem from the local RSPCA but, thanks to the lovely Kelly Joy who put me in touch with the equally lovely Patsy in Rushden, we soon had ourselves a gorgeous little rescue girl and a stunning wee rescue boy a few months later.

Without even meeting me, this woman at the CP had made a judgement on me based purely on my address and didn't even take into consideration that I was phoning with the intention of trying to make a better life for the cats who lived with these scabby neighbours. :mad2:


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

scatchy said:


> One of the reasons I would prefer a kitten to go to a home with older children is not just their behaviour (though that is very important) but a question of development.
> *A very small child is not really able to hold a kitten safely and securely.
> They are also not as emotionally developed so cannot empathise with a kitten in the same way. They will wake it up when sleeping, try to use it as a toy, not maliciously but just through lack of understanding.*Many rescues will suggest an adult cat or older kitten of about six months for families as they will be able to resist such treatment by simply jumping out of the childs way, etc.
> Unfortunately most people won't consider this(as in the case of the op) but only want a young kitten. It makes me think it is more about people getting their own way than any real desire to offer a home to a cat that really needs one.
> ...


This is precisely the type of generalisation that p*sses me off.

My son (who although the apple of my eye, is by no means a gifted exceptional) had just turned 4 when we got our kittens. He has never (even now) attempted to pick them up. He always sat on the floor and held out his hand to be sniffed and rubbed against before stroking the kittens. He never shouted around them. He never used his fingers or toes as toys for them. He started carefully opening all doors in case the kittens were behind them. He closed all kitchen cupboard doors after use in case the kittens got in. He stopped running in the flat in case the kittens were underfootand he has NEVER woken them from sleep. He learnt about caring for them by observing adults rather than thinking he could do things himself.

Why?

Because *we educated him *before getting the kittens and the education continues now.

But no, according to the rescue worker at CT77, ALL kids must be the same as obviously ALL kids have the same emotional development don't they. She knew, because she was a retired teacher!

Kids are not saints, but neither are some stupid adults. My son at 3 had more sense of what a pet needs than our 30-40 year old neighbours who allowed their 9 month old skinny female to give birth to 5 kittens and then killed one by accidentally sitting on it. Funny how on paper they would have passed the rescue centre test then isn't it?!

However, you are right, we did go elsewhere and as I have said before, our local CP and RSPCA are brilliant (as well as Battersea) so I would never group all rescues or volunteers within the rescue with the same brush.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

Lumboo said:


> This is precisely the type of generalisation that p*sses me off.
> 
> My son (who although the apple of my eye, is by no means a gifted exceptional) had just turned 4 when we got our kittens. He has never (even now) attempted to pick them up. He always sat on the floor and held out his hand to be sniffed and rubbed against before stroking the kittens. He never shouted around them. He never used his fingers or toes as toys for them. He started carefully opening all doors in case the kittens were behind them. He closed all kitchen cupboard doors after use in case the kittens got in. He stopped running in the flat in case the kittens were underfootand he has NEVER woken them from sleep. He learnt about caring for them by observing adults rather than thinking he could do things himself.
> 
> ...


I thought we were talking about homing to under 4s? wasn't that the original issue raised?
Was your little boy as good at 1 or 2?
Yes of course you can teach children but they have to be a certain age to understand don't they ? 
Personality must count too - some children are naturally quiet and gentle other loud and boisterous.
I suppose we cannot help but use our own situation to base our ideas - your boy is good with children therefore rescue should home with children but what about all the kids that are not good with kittens.
As I have said all parents think their children are good with pets but that does not always turn out to be the case . And it is even more difficult to say no to people when you are in their home - then it really is personal. Your are basically saying well that family was okay but your are not up to scratch.
And what about the issue of taking an older one? It is not always an outright refusal but a suggestion to consider something different.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

scatchy said:


> I thought we were talking about homing to under 4s? wasn't that the original issue raised?
> Was your little boy as good at 1 or 2?
> Yes of course you can teach children but they have to be a certain age to understand don't they ?
> Personality must count too - some children are naturally quiet and gentle other loud and boisterous.
> ...


But you NEED to take case by case as the fault is with assumptions - be they assumptions about childrens ages or in MB's case the postal address.

Although not relevant, by 18 months our son would have been fine to deal with a cat (or dog) without hassling it. Remember also that at that age he would also have not been unsupervised either.

Thankfully both CP and RSPCA went against their 'no kittens to under 5's' rule and met our son. After seeing what he was like both at home and in the pens they were confident that he was able to handle kittens appropriately, and we as parents were capable of teaching correctly. Battersea passed us too.

I am pleased to say that in this case their trust was rewarded as we have two beautiful cats that cuddle up by his feet for bedtime stories, (his bedtime, not their's) and have done so since they were 3-4 months old. We all know cats do not go anywhere they don't feel comfortable, so that statement speaks volumes.

Oh, and when he was 3 years old and we managed to get the bad neighbours very lovely but very stressed cat (then 4 months old) with us for a few hours, she settled and cuddled up to him within 5 minutes of being with us and again stayed with us for story time. How he cried when he woke up the next day and realised the idiots had taken her back.....

Older kittens are fine and I have no problem with them, but CT77 lady refused us all kittens (the kitten I was orginally asking for was 7 months old) because we had a young child. But like I said, she knew how things would end up because she was a teacher....


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

What a load of poppycock.
I grew up with cats, my parents had our first kitten when I was less than a year old, I grew up with it, and learned to empathise with pets in the most natural way possibe: I grew up with one. Mom never left me alone with it, and corrected me if I handled it wrong or wanted to cuddle when it wanted to sleep.

Unfortunately, when he was about a year old, he ran away (or was taken away, my parents suspected he was catnapped). He used to stay in our communal garden, but the porch was never locked, and people, especially children, used to walk in and cuddle with the cats. In the late 1950's there was no way to find a lost cat or a found cat's owner but to put up notices at the local greencrocer's. My parents suspected a child took our cat and told his mom he followed him home. 

We did without a cat for a while, but I did have contact with the other cats in our communal garden.
When I was 3 or 4, a neighbour told another neighbour's daughter her kitten was on the road, sitting on the tram rails. She rushed out, though she had no idea how it could have escaped the cat-proofed balcony, and grabbed it. Then she saw her own kitten sitting in the window, and her mother decided to drop the cat on our balcony (which was only about 1.50 m. above ground level), as she knew we loved cats.

The little mite was clearly underfed and very happy to have a home, and as my parents could not trace his owners, he stayed. He was the ideal cat for a little child. I was told to leave him alone, but he came to me, wanted to be on my lap, loved to be put in my pram and pushed around in the house and garden. He was my faithful companion for 8 years. He died of renal failure due to his diet (he flatly refused to eat anything but freshly cooked fish).

Our next cat was a semi-feral kitten, who grew up to be one of the most cuddly cats you can imagine. I was 12 or 13 at the time, and most of the cat socializing skills I have, I owe to him. 

So I strongly disagree with any rules about children's ages being right or wrong for having a kitten, it all depends on the child and on its parents' dedication and common sense, AND on the kitten. 
As a toddler, I could not have handled a semi-feral, but a human-friendly cat like our Pinkie was a godsent. And the semi-feral taught me patience as a teenager and gave me the unconditional love and support I needed during these years.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Don't have or know much about cats so not commented before. As the RSPCA seem to have been rather evasive from the outset, is it not possible they suspected the OP actually owned the original cat, handed to them to deal with the kittens and then wanted one of the kittens back?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If so, htey should have voiced this concern/suspicion.
besides, they DID make a house call, and at least one of the children was present. It would be only TOO easy to chat with the child for a bit about cats and find out if they owned cats before.
Children will happily tell you all about their pets, so if the RSPCA suspected the mother cat might have been theirs in the first place, it would heve been no trouble at all to find out for sure during the house call.

But instead, they completely ignored the child, the very reason they gave for their being unsuitable to have a kitten, and never tried to find out if he knew anything about cats, knew how to handle them, or if he even cared for them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I grew up with cats, my parents had our first kitten when I was less than a year old,


If you are born into a household with pets then you actually ignore them. The excuse that a one or two year old can't hold one properly isn't relevant because they don't even try. This idea that small children want to play with a kitten isn't based on any truth I know. Older children do and if a household pet is a novelty to a child of 4, 5, 6 or 7 then in my experience it's more likely to be bothered by them. The logic behind this rule is flawed.


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