# My puppy's 1st erection!!!



## nataliegirl

Hello

My baby boy has had his first erection tonight and I'm not talking about a little bit of lipstick I am talking about the full works! I have never owned a male dog before and I was hoping someone could tell me what this now means? I am looking after a friends dog next week and she has not been done. Does this now mean that he could get her pregnant? He is only 4 months old and I think it is all happening very early, is this normal? Help would be much appreciated on this sensitive issue!


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## Fleur

Yes it is normal - don't panic

Is your friends dog due to come into season? If they are then I wouldn't have them stay unless you are able to keep them completely separate
Whilst I would imagine it very rare for a dog as young as yours to impregnate a female I wouldn't want to risk it.


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## Rafa

nataliegirl said:


> Hello
> 
> My baby boy has had his first erection tonight and I'm not talking about a little bit of lipstick I am talking about the full works! I have never owned a male dog before and I was hoping someone could tell me what this now means? I am looking after a friends dog next week and she has not been done. Does this now mean that he could get her pregnant? He is only 4 months old and I think it is all happening very early, is this normal? Help would be much appreciated on this sensitive issue!


By "an erection", can you be more specific?

Was his entire penis exposed and did it take a while for him to return to normal?

This type of event doesn't necessarily mean a male is fertile. Some dogs do it from time to time, but not many.

I would have thought four months old is too young for him to father pups. If your friend's bitch isn't in season, there won't be a problem.


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## leashedForLife

nataliegirl said:


> Hello
> 
> My baby boy had his first erection tonight, & I'm not talking about a little bit of lipstick -
> I am talking about the full works!
> 
> I've never owned a male dog before, & hope someone could tell me what this now means?
> I am looking after a friend's [bitch] next week... Does this now mean that he could get her pregnant?
> 
> He's only 4-MO, & I think it's... very early, is this normal?
> Help would be much appreciated on this sensitive issue!
> .
> .


.
.
It's *remotely* possible he could sire a litter, but it's more likely he'd tie & not be fertile - however,
he can still pass or catch STDs, as can any M or F partner, he can still be hurt in the process - 
as can the F! - by an unco-operative or suddenly upset F, by an accident, by another dog who
comes by & intrudes, whatever.
.
U can get him desexed anytime - there is no reason to wait. He'd actually heal faster, bleed less,
scar less, & have fewer risks for complications if he's done now, rather than wait until he's 6-MO
or more.

He is unlikely to produce fertile sperm, at 4-MO, in sufficient numbers to fertilize eggs - altho it
does sometimes happen, so don't assume.
.
U didn't say what triggered this supposed erection - straining to urinate or expel a BM will do it, it's
not necessarily sexual, as it's also urinary plumbing, not just arousal.
.
.
When U say it was the "whole thing", what do U mean?
Did the bulbous swelling at the base keep the penis exposed, unable to withdraw? NORMALLY that
only results after masturbation or friction, not mere excitement without physical contact.
If he wasn't humping a stuffed toy or a hassock, i'd be concerned - there can be medical reasons, too,
& a vet might be a good next step.
.
.
If he was straining to void, again, a vet might be a good idea.
.
.
If it was "only" 3 to 5 inches of penis that slipped back in fairly promptly, & it stayed moist, i wouldn't
be too concerned. DRYNESS is a bad thing - it allows the penis to pick up any bacteria it brushes
against, & carry it into the sheathe to incubate.
If it stayed out long-enuf to be visibly dry or tacky, i'd head for the vet; they can encourage it back in,
safely, & prevent complications.
.
So what tripped the trigger?
.
.
.


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## Leam1307

Please if you are thinking of getting him neutered, wait until he is old enough, there is every reason to wait unlike what the poster above has said. Weigh up the pro's and con's carefully, there is more evidence to suggest getting them "done" younger causes more problems. Most vets will not do it until they are at least 6 months old and most like to wait until they are 18months.


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## Magyarmum

Leam1307 said:


> Please if you are thinking of getting him neutered, wait until he is old enough, there is every reason to wait unlike what the poster above has said. Weigh up the pro's and con's carefully, there is more evidence to suggest getting them "done" younger causes more problems. Most vets will not do it until they are at least 6 months old and most like to wait until they are 18months.


I agree that 4 months old is FAR too early! I live in a country where although its not illegal to neuter a dog, the majority of vets will only do it for medical reasons. My boy is 18 months and I don't intend to have him neutered as we're both happy the way things are.


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## Muttly

I had no idea you could neuter so young until while I was dropping of Muttly to be neutered there was a tiny and I mean tiny pup, being held by his owner, also going in for neutering. Don't know how old, but looked very very young, like 12 weeks!


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## leashedForLife

Leam1307 said:


> ... there is more evidence to suggest getting them "done" younger causes more problems.
> *Most vets wont DESEX before 6-MO, & [many] prefer to await until they're 18-MO.*
> *.*



.
.
And what country would that be? 
.
I'm in the USA; there have been many retrospective & long-term studies on desex, here & abroad.
The AVMA's position paper on pediatric desex is very clear: it's SAFE. That's done as young as the
pup or kitten is of age to be adopted - between 8 & 12-WO, depending upon how soon there's an
actual adopter who's pre-approved, & wants that specific animal.
.
.
So long as the pup / kit is HEALTHY, & weighs a minimum of 2# [a half-kilo], they're fine.
Literally millions of such "early-age" pediatric desex surgeries have been done, beginning as early
as 1972.
Australia's stats are the same - the younger pups & kits actually have FEWER complications &
LOWER risks, bleed less, scar less, heal faster, are less-likely to have infection, etc, etc.
.
.



Magyarmum said:


> ....4 months old is FAR too early!
> *I live in a country where... [most] vets only desex for medical reasons.*
> My boy is 18-MO and I don't intend to have him neutered --- we're both happy the way things are.
> .


.
.
That's fine for U & Ur dog - but we're speaking here of the OP & their dog, not Urs.
If Ur own dog developed behavioral issues directly related to being intact, desex is an obvious choice.
.
.




Muttly said:


> I'd no idea you could neuter so young until, while dropping off Muttly for his desex [I saw] a tiny pup, being held
> by his owner, also going in for neutering. Don't know how old, but looked very very young, like 12 weeks!
> .
> .


.
.
Yup - i've worked with many early-desex dogs & cats, they are normal, walk / run / play, aren't
obese lumps as just like any other pet, WE * FILL * THE * BOWL, so If Ur pet is fat, U only need
to look in the mirror to know who's at fault.
.
.
At least half the shelter-adoptee dogs i knew from 1990 to 2000 went to Agility, & did well -
& solidly 1/2 to 1/3 of them were ALL puppy-desex, snipped between 8 & 10-WO.
By "did well" i don't mean ribbons or silver cups, i mean graceful & athletic - not klutzes,
not ill-proportioned, no more prone to injury than any other dog.
.
.
.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies

Fleur said:


> Whilst I would imagine it very rare for a dog as young as yours to impregnate a female I wouldn't want to risk it.


I think this is the advice I would follow primarily. Dogs (like humans) vary immensely at what age they can procreate. Unfortunately many an unwanted litter is accompanied by the phrase 'I didn't know they were old enough'.

So long as the visiting female isn't in season then all should be well ... though if the Testosterone is hitting then there may be interest if she even remotely smells interesting. An entire male terrier came over to see us (with owner) and played with my all girl troupe. Someone must have been giving off flirty hormones though as he spent the afternoon teeth chattering and behaving like a love sick (aka randy) puppy lol

J


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## Magyarmum

leashedForLife said:


> *That's fine for U & Ur dog - but we're speaking here of the OP & their dog, not Urs.*
> *If Ur own dog developed behavioral issues directly related to being intact, desex is an obvious choice*
> 
> Is it? Speak for yourself ... My previous two dogs both unspayed females often used to hump each other when they were puppies. Did I think "OMG I've got two lesbians ... I must rush off to the vets and get them spayed in the hope they'll stop this behaviour"? I certainly didn't, instead I read as much as I could on the subject, then decided on the best way to train them out of the habit which I did and never had a problem after that. My present female dog.started humping cushions* AFTER* she was spayed but grew out of it within a few weeks without any intervention from me.
> 
> I've spent the past 8 years living in a village with 20 dogs of whom all but two are intact males. Most of the dogs are allowed out each day onto the village green, without the supervision of their owners and never once have I seen any form of aggression or behavioural issues between them. They all rub along together and do their "own thing" and pose no threat to mine when I walk mine through the village, which to me is the way it should be.


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## Blackadder

A dogs erection isn't always sexual, general excitement can cause the "lipstick" to show (meeting people or even feed times) & some dogs are more prone to it than others. As such, castration is unlikely to be of any use in the latter scenario as it doesn't prevent it!


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## alan1971

He'll be humping your leg soon lol


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## Jamesgoeswalkies

BlackadderUK said:


> A dogs erection isn't always sexual, general excitement can cause the "lipstick" to show (meeting people or even feed times) & some dogs are more prone to it than others.


Showing the lipstick can come from general arousal (and is common) but I don't tend to think of that an an erection. A full erection (we had a Cavalier who used to even surprise himself it was so large) is a different matter however and does show sexual arousal imo. This can be brought on through a number of activities that may or may not include a female ...masturbation in males is common and natural.

However, my previous advice stands ...always err on the side of caution lest you accidently get to hear the patter of tiny paws.

J


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## Blackadder

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Showing the lipstick can come from general arousal (and is common) but I don't tend to think of that an an erection.


I was using the same terms the OP used & to someone not used to male dogs, quite appropriate.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies

BlackadderUK said:


> I was using the same terms the OP used & to someone not used to male dogs, quite appropriate.


The OP said 'I'm not talking about a little bit of lipstick I am talking about the full works!' so yup ...that kinda tells me it's 'sexual' (hormonally lead).

Probably wouldn't know what to do with it but as I said err on the side of caution if a female is visiting.

My wife was called to help a young JRT whose erection got stuck (out)... poor we man.

J


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## leashedForLife

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> ...
> My wife was called [on] to help a young JRT, whose erection [was] stuck (outside his prepuce, or sheathe)...
> poor wee man.
> 
> - J
> .
> .


.
.
This is very painful for the dog, & often results in compulsive licking in an attempt to both
ease the pain, AND get things back to normal - i-e, sheathed & painless. Unfortunately,
repeated bouts of nonstop licking can actually make it *worse - *granulated tissue can de-
velop, & the pain becomes excruciating.
.
Dr Pol, a mixed-practice vet on Natl-Geo WILD-tv, recently desexed a M Boston [Bull And]
Terrier with what appeared to be a bright red-pink cauliflower floret on the end of his penis;
he was bleeding into his urine, AND bleeding thinly from the "wart".
This wasn't 'a few drops' - his owner came home from work to find him lying in a puddle of 
blood the size of a dinner plate, but that was 7 to 10 days after the 'wart' 1st sprouted.
.
All of it - the granular tissue, the bleeding, the pain - was the result of his androgen levels 
[testosterone] being very high, he "felt horny" & was very excitable, & licked himself often.
.
The licking became habitual, then compulsive, & his own TONGUE irritated his penis, be-
ginning the granular tissue, which became a growth. // Castration plus a soothing ointment to
help heal his outraged mucosa heal was a success - the 'wart' shrank & resolved, & his com-
pulsive licking stopped.
.
.
.


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## leashedForLife

.
.
BTW, for those who think pediatric or pre-pubertal desex is so awful -
here's the American SPCA, the oldest humane organization in the nation, & their opinion,
which INCLUDES references, data, & cites research:
.
http://www.aspcapro.org/resource/shelter-health-animal-care/pediatric-spayneuter
.
.
.


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## Blackadder

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> BTW, for those who think pediatric or pre-pubertal desex is so awful
> 
> That'll be me then
> 
> I've read the link you posted &, to be honest, it doesn't "sell" pediatric neutering at all IMO? Some of the quoted effects of (early) neutering are quite disturbing but are dismissed as irrelevant or, at best, minor problems when they are not. A few examples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gonadectomy can increase the risk of development of osteosarcoma (OSA) by 1.3 to 2.0 times (Root Kustritz). In one study, there was a significant increase in OSA in sterilized dogs that had undergone gonadectomy at less than 1 year of age,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transitional Cell Carcinoma (TCC) is the most common tumor of the urinary tract of dogs. Gonadectomized animals have an increased risk of developing TCC compared to sexually intact animals (Root Kustritz). *However, a cause and effect relationship has not been defined*, and TCC in dogs is reported to be at most 1.0% of all malignant tumors (Root Kustritz).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll hazard an answer to the bit in bold.. maybe it's due to having the sex hormones removed too early? Just a thought.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another tumor associated with gonadectomy is hemangiosarcoma. Spayed females have 5 times the risk of developing cardiac hemangiosarcoma compared to intact females (Root Kustritz). *However, the overall incidence of cardiac tumors in one study was only 0.19%, making them very uncommon compared to other tumor types.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So making an "uncommon" cancer 5 times more likely is ok then?
> When you say pediatric neutering is safe what do you mean? Safe short term as in less GA, quicker healing, shorter recovery or safe long term over the animals lifespan? If the latter then your own link contradicts itself.
> As it stands, the ASPCA seem only to be concerned with reducing the numbers of puppies (not a bad thing) with some disregard for the possible consequences of neutering too early...
> Just my opinion of course
> 
> I will throw in another study done on Golden Retrievers, published in 2013, for discussion & give you one fact from that study.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cranial Cruciate Ligament Tear. As revealed in
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Figures 1 and 2, there was no occurrence of CCL in either intact male or intact female dogs, or in late-neutered females. However, in early-neutered dogs, the occurrence reached 5.1 percent in males and 7.7 percent in females, representing significant differences in occurrence from both intact and late-neutered dogs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055937
> 
> Studies, like statistics, can be used to prove your own point...if you chose them carefully
Click to expand...


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## Meezey

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> BTW, for those who think pediatric or pre-pubertal desex is so awful -
> here's the American SPCA, the oldest humane organization in the nation, & their opinion,
> which INCLUDES references, data, & cites research:
> .
> http://www.aspcapro.org/resource/shelter-health-animal-care/pediatric-spayneuter
> .
> .
> .


Uggh we have been through all this in another thread where people gave you links, research papers etc to show why it was bad, very bad in fact.......


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## rottiepointerhouse

Funnily enough we were discussing this earlier on. Colt my GSP was neutered by the rescue at 12-18 mnths of age just before he came to us. He still regularly gets very large erections that take ages to go down. He has never tried to hump my bitch or us, just looks very hunched up and anxious if anyone/other dog goes near him. Today he was walking around like John Wayne and kept looking at it like "WTF is that thing following me for". I usually take the other dogs out of the room and leave him until it has gone down. Point is neutering hasn't made any difference.


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## mrs phas

I used to be an advocate of early spey/neuter, especially as it meant rescues were 100% certain that their rehomes, could not, under any circumstances, add to the explosive overpopulation at rescue centres

however, having seen, first hand, over the last 5 years, the results of early speying eg an increase of incontinence as a primary problem, along with increase in reactivity, 
and, 
neutering with dogs behaviour being 'stuck' in puppy phase, increase in nervousness and a lack of appropriate behaviour around other dogs, I have certainly been educated out of this

L4L I normally have the greatest of respect for your knowledge. posts, education, and helpfulness to those who want to learn more
yet
several times in different posts, recently, you have come over as highly aggressive and tbh down right rude with a my way or the highway attitude

This really lets yourself down and is very unbecoming of anyone


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## leashedForLife

.
.
Quoting from the ASPCA article, linked above:
.
.
QUOTE,
"Another study addressing long-term effects of pediatric spay / neuter was published in JAVMA's 
February 1, 2004 issue. This study was performed at the Cornell University College of Veterinary
Medicine by Dr. Vic Spain, who looked at records of shelter animals (1,842 dogs & 1,660 cats)
who were sterilized as pediatric patients. This study provided follow-up for as long as 11 years.

The conclusion for dogs was that 'because early-age gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits
than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely desex male dogs at a young age, & veterinary
practitioners should consider recommending routine desex for client-owned male dogs before the
traditional age of 6 to 8 months.
For female dogs, however, increased risk of urinary incontinence suggests delaying desex until at
least 3 months of age may be beneficial.' [end excerpt]
"It's important to note that female dogs with reported urinary incontinence remained in their homes
& were not relinquished. *The long-term Texas A&M study did not find similar results re urinary
incontinence, & a 1992 study showed higher incidence of urinary incontinence in female dogs
spayed AFTER their first estrus.
*
The conclusion for cats from the Cornell study was, 'Gonadectomy before 5.5 months of age was
not associated with increased death-rates, nor relinquishment, nor occurrence of any serious medical
or behavioral condition, & may provide certain important long-term benefits, especially for male cats.
Animal shelters can safely desex cats at a young age, & veterinarians should consider recommending
routine desex for client-owned cats before the traditional age of 6 to 8 months.'

It should be noted that similar focused studies have not been conducted to establish long-term safety
of [traditional, pubertal] desex performed at 6 months of age."
.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx End Quote xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
.
.
So we have no studies that explore the long-term effects of pubertal desex [6-MO to 8 or 9-MO], which
has been the veterinary standard since before i was born, over 50-years ago.
.
Yet despite data from pediatric desex since 1972 - that it's safe, has FEWER complications, younger
pups or kits heal faster, they're less-likely to infect, they scar less, the pup or kit is sedated for a shorter
time, etc - ppl still get upset about early-age desex. It's illogical.
. 
I'll add that a German study found that female pups desexed before 12-WO were actually found to be
LESS likely to have urinary incontinence than Fs who weren't desexed until they were over 6-MO.
.
Even more illogical, "early desex" is apparently OK for kittens - but not puppies?.... What's that about?
Apparently safety for the patient & good outcomes aren't as important as human emotions about "babies"
being spayed or neutered.
.
Babies having babies isn't good, either - altho that's "natural", so despite the dangers of underage pups
or kittens getting pregnant or siring litters, that's OK?
.
For those unaware, if U *delay breeding until both sire & dam are at least 2-YO, U add an average
TWO YEARS to the lifespan of their pups. *It's the least-expensive & most-effective way to extend
any dog's life, but it has to be done before s/he is even conceived. Planning a litter & doing the needed
tests, screens, medical history of relatives, etc, is even more important than we knew.
.
.
.


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## rottiepointerhouse

L4L can you say for sure that early neutering does not contribute to significant orthopaedic disease. One of the hardest things I have to live with is reading that all of Indie's orthopaedic problems (bilateral elbow dysplasia, bilateral cruciate disease and luxating patella all of which occurred at 12-14 months of age) may well have been caused by her being spayed at 6 months of age ie. too soon. I had no choice as being a rescue I had signed an agreement to have it done but I will never do it again.


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## Guest

I don't know how anyone can say that sex hormones don't affect growth. We know that they do, in multiple animals - including humans. There is plenty of conclusive research out there that proves the link.
In some breeds (danes for example) you can line up a group of 10 dogs and the effect on growth is so obvious you can almost pick out the early neuters from those who remained intact longer. 

Now, from there, it does become less clear how altered growth affects future structural issues and bone cancer. With an owner who has shown themselves to be responsible and capable of keeping an intact dog, it's really about that owner educating themselves on what is the best option for them and their situation.


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## Blackadder

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> Quoting from the ASPCA article, linked above:
> Yet despite data from pediatric desex since 1972 - that it's safe, has FEWER complications, younger
> pups or kits heal faster, they're less-likely to infect, they scar less, the pup or kit is sedated for a shorter
> time, etc - ppl still get upset about early-age desex. It's illogical.



No, what's illogical is that people think cutting important hormone producing organs out of their animals can be done as early as 12 weeks without any consequences to that animal despite studies showing otherwise! Testes & Ovaries are not there just to make babies, they are an important part of the animals physical & mental growth.
What's illogical is that someone can go off on a rant without replying to points made, this is a discussion I believe?
What's illogical is that the same, very short term benefits above are continually expressed whilst ignoring the (study) proven risks to long term health.

As I said, the ASPCA seem to want to prevent puppies at any cost & appear to minimise the (real) risks of early neutering, if that approach jeopardises my dogs long term health (& I believe it does) then I'll give it a miss thanks.


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## Meezey

Wow really have a sense of déjà vu here kittens blah blah blah I KNOW we had the EXACT same conversation not to long ago, I can't be bothered to rehash it as in the last thread l4l utterly ignored every fact given... In fact let me find the thread to save people the pain....


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## Blackadder

Meezey said:


> In fact let me find the thread to save people the pain....


If you could please, I looked but not sure what I'm looking for.


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## Meezey

BlackadderUK said:


> If you could please, I looked but not sure what I'm looking for.


http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/6-month-shar-pei-help-please.381609/page-3
Starts about page 3 that said if you do an advanced search on l4l's full username and neutering same guff is banged out for any behaviour off with their nads out with their ovaries and womb all is well in the world if it's done at weeks rather than months old younger the better ....


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## Doggiedelight

This is why I could never have a male doggie LOL


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## leashedForLife

rottiepointerhouse said:


> ...
> Colt, my [male] GSP, was neutered by the rescue at 12 to 18-MO, just before he came to us.
> 
> - He still regularly gets *very-large erections that take ages to go down.*
> - He's never tried to hump my bitch or us, just looks very hunched & anxious if anyone / another dog goes near him.;
> Today he walked like John Wayne, & kept looking at it like, "why the H*** is that thing following me?".
> I usually take the other dogs [away] & leave him till it goes down. Point is, neutering hasn't made any difference.
> .
> .


.
.
For the bazillionth time:
*a penis is plumbing many-times more often than it is any sort of **sexual organ.*
.
.
Even an intact male who's at stud uses his penis to empty his bladder a lot more often than it's
used to transfer sperm. One is an everyday, multiple times per day, necessity - the other is optional.
.
.
Have U asked Ur vet about his recurring, persistent erections? - If not, why not? That's a medical
issue, & while it's not life-threatening, it's painful.
.
Have U tried keeping a record of WHEN they occur? -- My personal hunch is that these erections
are connected to a pending BM, = unless= there is some other precipitating event that U haven't
mentioned, such as something very-exciting to this particular dog - nonsexual excitement, such as
a favorite person arriving after separation, an anticipated meal, expectation of a walk or games, etc.
.
If U track when they occur, U may find a pattern.
Simultaneously, Ur vet may be able to suggest ways to reduce their frequency, duration, or make
them less painful. I'd consult my vet ASAP. Chronic erections aren't pleasurable, they hurt.
For more info from a human perspective, google "priapism".
.
.
I'll add for the record that one of my Biology instructors wore a bolo tie with raccoon penile bones
as the tie ends, & he remarked that he envied them their ever-ready state. He was wrong - humans
don't have penile bones, & a persistent erection is agonizing, not fun.
Humans have hydraulic erections, not boney structures, & the pressure is painful.
.
.
.


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## leashedForLife

.
I used to be an advocate of early S / N, especially as it meant rescues were 100% certain that
[adoptees] could not, under any circs, add to the explosive overpopulation at rescue centres.

however, I've seen seen first-hand over the last 5 years *the results of early spays, e-g, an *
*increase of [urinary?] incontinence as a primary problem, along with increased reactivity,*
*& [the results of early] neuter [in males] with [adult] dogs' behavior stuck in puppy phase,*
*increased nervousness, & a lack of apropos behavior around other dogs.*

 
.
Mrs Phas,
anecdotes are all well & good, but U can't show me video of those dogs before & post-desex, nor
statistics that support Ur claims. The dogs U saw weren't enrolled in studies, or part of retrospective
research, or enrolled in long-term tracking of desex & dogs as adults.

As for my own anecdotes, i've seen PLENTY of severely messed-up dogs, but none of it was due to
pediatric or pubertal desex. Since i've done 'B-Mod only' starting in 1985, i don't see "normal" dogs &
their owners in order to teach the dogs cued behaviors ['train']; i see dogs whose owners have some
serious complaint about their [the dogs'] behavior.

I did a lot of pro-bono work with dogs placed by various nonprofit rescues, & saw LOADS of early-
desex dogs who'd been S/N at between 7 & 10-WO. They were fine - physically & emotionally; they
were mostly dog-social, & their fearful behaviors weren't THE * RESULT of desex; they predated the
desex surgery, & with B-Mod, they improved. They weren't "doomed", & they weren't "stuck".
.
I've been training other ppl's pets of many species since 1972; i've specialized in B-Mod since 1985.
And my anecdotes are precisely diametrically opposite to Urs.
.
So rather than anecdotes, i prefer to use data - & the data say that pediatric S/N is safe, & that includes
long-term effects over the dog's [or cat's] lifespan, per the AVMA, Australia's Small-animal Vet Assoc, &
the Small-Animal Vets of the UK, among other veterinary medical associations.
.
.
.
.


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## rottiepointerhouse

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> For the bazillionth time:
> *a penis is plumbing many-times more often than it is any sort of sexual organ.*
> .
> .
> Even an intact male who's at stud uses his penis to empty his bladder a lot more often than it's
> used to transfer sperm. One is an everyday, multiple times per day, necessity - the other is optional.
> .
> .
> Have U asked Ur vet about his recurring, persistent erections? - If not, why not? That's a medical
> issue, & while it's not life-threatening, it's painful.
> .
> Have U tried keeping a record of WHEN they occur? -- My personal hunch is that these erections
> are connected to a pending BM, = unless= there is some other precipitating event that U haven't
> mentioned, such as something very-exciting to this particular dog - nonsexual excitement, such as
> a favorite person arriving after separation, an anticipated meal, expectation of a walk or games, etc.
> .
> If U track when they occur, U may find a pattern.
> Simultaneously, Ur vet may be able to suggest ways to reduce their frequency, duration, or make
> them less painful. I'd consult my vet ASAP. Chronic erections aren't pleasurable, they hurt.
> For more info from a human perspective, google "priapism".
> .
> .
> I'll add for the record that one of my Biology instructors wore a bolo tie with raccoon penile bones
> as the tie ends, & he remarked that he envied them their ever-ready state. He was wrong - humans
> don't have penile bones, & a persistent erection is agonizing, not fun.
> Humans have hydraulic erections, not boney structures, & the pressure is painful.
> .
> .
> .


Thank you L4L for your advice although not for the very spiky tone of your response. I'm a RGN thanks and have studied biology so I do know what a penis is for. I've worked on a genito-urinary surgical ward too so have seen more willies than most people. I didn't say a penis is used more as a sex organ that plumbing I simply said that despite neutering he still has erections and therefore making other readers aware that neutering will not necessarily prevent them.

No I have not consulted my vet about them. Whilst I appreciate your concern and advice - I decide when my dogs need to see a vet thanks. I said "regularly" not "frequently" . These always occur when he wakes up so no they are not related to anything exciting happening or anticipated unless he has been dreaming. Please explain what you mean by an impending BM for those of us not in the loop with your abbreviations.


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## rottiepointerhouse

The penny has just dropped and I'm assuming you mean bowel movement??


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## Blackadder

Meezey said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/6-month-shar-pei-help-please.381609/page-3
> Starts about page 3 that said if you do an advanced search on l4l's full username and neutering same guff is banged out for any behaviour off with their nads out with their ovaries and womb all is well in the world if it's done at weeks rather than months old younger the better ....


Thanks for the link, I now see what you mean!


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## mrs phas

leashedForLife said:


> .
> I used to be an advocate of early S / N, especially as it meant rescues were 100% certain that
> [adoptees] could not, under any circs, add to the explosive overpopulation at rescue centres.
> 
> however, I've seen seen first-hand over the last 5 years *the results of early spays, e-g, an *
> *increase of [urinary?] incontinence as a primary problem, along with increased reactivity,*
> *& [the results of early] neuter [in males] with [adult] dogs' behavior stuck in puppy phase,*
> *increased nervousness, & a lack of apropos behavior around other dogs.*
> 
> 
> .
> Mrs Phas,
> anecdotes are all well & good, but U can't show me video of those dogs before & post-desex, nor
> statistics that support Ur claims. The dogs U saw weren't enrolled in studies, or part of retrospective
> research, or enrolled in long-term tracking of desex & dogs as adults.
> 
> As for my own anecdotes, i've seen PLENTY of severely messed-up dogs, but none of it was due to
> pediatric or pubertal desex. Since i've done 'B-Mod only' starting in 1985, i don't see "normal" dogs &
> their owners in order to teach the dogs cued behaviors ['train']; i see dogs whose owners have some
> serious complaint about their [the dogs'] behavior.
> 
> I did a lot of pro-bono work with dogs placed by various nonprofit rescues, & saw LOADS of early-
> desex dogs who'd been S/N at between 7 & 10-WO. They were fine - physically & emotionally; they
> were mostly dog-social, & their fearful behaviors weren't THE * RESULT of desex; they predated the
> desex surgery, & with B-Mod, they improved. They weren't "doomed", & they weren't "stuck".
> .
> I've been training other ppl's pets of many species since 1972; i've specialized in B-Mod since 1985.
> And my anecdotes are precisely diametrically opposite to Urs.
> .
> So rather than anecdotes, i prefer to use data - & the data say that pediatric S/N is safe, & that includes
> long-term effects over the dog's [or cat's] lifespan, per the AVMA, Australia's Small-animal Vet Assoc, &
> the Small-Animal Vets of the UK, among other veterinary medical associations.
> .
> .
> .
> .


thank you so much for adjusting my post to your preferences
hope it makes you happy now


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