# Miranda to the rescue.... again!



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ty's ex-mom has neighbours who own a boxer and have asked her if I would like to take him on as they are having a lot of problems with him. Sue (the ex-mom) wants to co-own the way we did with Ty. I ummed and ahhed a bit cos I wasn't sure whether I was ready. 

Well I've been to meet them and the dog. He's a gorgeous boxer and he's such a friendly boy. They were having problems walking him cos he pulls quite hard and they are both getting wobbly on their legs. He's also quite active in the house and a little bit destructive. So .... I went in to it with a little trepidation. 

We had a long chat and the poor dog has never really been trained to walk on a lead. I took Ty's Mekuti harness and he really wasn't that bad. I also used the Turn technique that VS teaches and he was getting the idea by the time we finished the walk. So I think that is doable. We played in the garden and he has quite a gentle mouth when playing Tuggy. I think the destructive behaviour is more boredom than anything else as he's had little training and doesn't go anywhere except to the park in the car and then a few runs up and down the garden. 

I can tell they want me to have him but are trying really hard not to push me, bless them! 

So I'm going to chat with Sue and see what she wants to do as I won't be able to afford on my own. Then if that works, I think I will take him on.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Ty's ex-mom has neighbours who own a boxer and have asked her if I would like to take him on as they are having a lot of problems with him. Sue (the ex-mom) wants to co-own the way we did with Ty. I ummed and ahhed a bit cos I wasn't sure whether I was ready.
> 
> Well I've been to meet them and the dog. He's a gorgeous boxer and he's such a friendly boy. They were having problems walking him cos he pulls quite hard and they are both getting wobbly on their legs. He's also quite active in the house and a little bit destructive. So .... I went in to it with a little trepidation.
> 
> ...


Welcome back to dog caring. You know you will!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I think you're right! It's just the finances need to be sorted out.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And thank you to the Mod who sorted out the title!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

To all those who have poo-rollers, is that a behaviour you can train them out of? It's not, is it? Oh good....


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> To all those who have poo-rollers, is that a behaviour you can train them out of? It's not, is it? Oh good....


Ummmmmm.......well not exactly train them out of, just be quicker then they are which isn't always easy.

I can usually spot if Isla is having a happy roll or about to have a poo roll (OH cant unfortunately). It's extremely subtle and it's just a matter of bellowing 'NO' before she gets her shoulder down and into the stuff


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I have a poo roller, she can go weeks sometimes months without rolling and sometimes she can roll daily sometimes multiple times on one day, I can stop her at times if I interrupt her just before she drops the shoulder (her rolling signs are manic tail wagging a little circle around and then shoulder drop. head down and follopity flop for maximum coverage) but it's literally a split second of her doing the signs to dropping so most times by the time my brain has computed the signs it's too late :Yuck After the first three or fours times you kinda get used to the smell and ickyness of fox poop although the the thick green slimey one still gets me heaving


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thought so! I'm going to have to learn the difference fairly quick, I think!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MontyMaude said:


> I have a poo roller, she can go weeks sometimes months without rolling and sometimes she can roll daily sometimes multiple times on one day, I can stop her at times if I interrupt her just before she drops the shoulder (her rolling signs are manic tail wagging a little circle around and then shoulder drop. head down and follopity flop for maximum coverage) but it's literally a split second of her doing the signs to dropping so most times by the time my brain has computed the signs it's too late :Yuck After the first three or fours times you kinda get used to the smell and ickyness of fox poop although the the thick green slimey one still gets me heaving


He took me by surprise today as I wasn't told he's a poo-roller. He was walking next to me on a fairly short lead and just dropped and rolled. I was holding the lead away from him so he didn't get it tangled around his legs and I didn't realise he was actually rolling in something until the smell hit.

The harness is now in the washing machine on a hot wash......


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Ah a boxer piccies please ! How old is he ? I guess the destruction is boredom they are very energetic but I have found mine quick to pick up training. It is lovely of you to take on a dog who needs a home. Boxer cuddles are the best.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He's about 2 years old. Maybe 3. So a fair bit younger than Ty. I'll put some photos up as soon as I've got some.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Ah lovely my boy is 3 but an over grown puppy.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I do feel for him cos I'll be his third owner in his short life.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Oh bless that is sad.







we took lily on at 5 months she is a funny little thing but well worth it.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Oh good luck! I really hope you and Sue can work something out re the finances, as it really sounds like he needs you


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh bless! They all have their own ways.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh good luck! I really hope you and Sue can work something out re the finances, as it really sounds like he needs you


We are going to do our very best. I think Sue is going to talk to his present owners about it but I'm not relying on that in case they say no.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> We are going to do our very best. I think Sue is going to talk to his present owners about it but I'm not relying on that in case they say no.


Yes, always best to assume worst case scenario and work your way up from there


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ooh exciting! Keep us updated.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I will! I am looking after him for the afternoon tomorrow to see if he is alright with me on his own. So fingers crossed.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Ooh a boxer, exciting!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)




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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Well, he's here! At the moment he's a bit anxious and a little bit OTT, partly because of the walk to my house, I think. I'm scratching his back when he comes near me and talking quietly to him so hopefully he will settle down.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

I think we need pics! What's his name?


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Well, he's here! At the moment he's a bit anxious and a little bit OTT, partly because of the walk to my house, I think. I'm scratching his back when he comes near me and talking quietly to him so hopefully he will settle down.


Hurray!!! The 'little' guy will have a good life.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Boxerluver30 said:


> I think we need pics! What's his name?


 His name is Bruno. But I might change it to George once he's mine. He looks like a George to me. In fact, if you put a high collar on him, he'd be the spit of George IV!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=g...XQ0RoKHcGPBO8Q_h0ItgEwGQ#imgrc=U3a2-t3DpH-dMM:


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

About the poo rolling you learn the difference from normal one soon enough but before you even say NOOO you have a smiling done stink bomb.
I always liked the name Axl but the anagram made me LOL. George is good name as well so fingers/pawd crossed it all goes well and pictures please.
I dont know your circumstances but if the owners struggle to walk him but still want to keep him would you be interested in giving then dog walking services if they can afford it?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I did think of that but they made it fairly plain they don't want to keep him. Reenie (the wife) is a little bit resentful of him cos she feels that her husband shouldn't have bought him. She loved their previous dog, Max, to his bones and didn't want another one. And she also feels her husband was conned into buying Bruno. She didn't like the owners and didn't trust them. But she wasn't really consulted by Ray, he just went ahead and paid £150 there and then. 

Sue has had to drop out of co-owning him so ..... there's now negotiations between me and them as to whether they will contribute to his keep. I'm hoping they will cos otherwise he's going to end up at the Dog's Home.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Oh dear. I really hope they will. sounds like lot of resentment issues between them they are putting on poor Bruno.
Realistically I wouldnt build on their support for life time and get ready to financing him if you can afford it of course. It would be heart breaking for you and him if you get attatched only to get rehome again.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> I did think of that but they made it fairly plain they don't want to keep him. Reenie (the wife) is a little bit resentful of him cos she feels that her husband shouldn't have bought him. She loved their previous dog, Max, to his bones and didn't want another one. And she also feels her husband was conned into buying Bruno. She didn't like the owners and didn't trust them. But she wasn't really consulted by Ray, he just went ahead and paid £150 there and then.
> 
> Sue has had to drop out of co-owning him so ..... there's now negotiations between me and them as to whether they will contribute to his keep. I'm hoping they will cos otherwise he's going to end up at the Dog's Home.


Fingers crossed. I really hope, for his sake, that it all works out


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)




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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Hes gorgeous!! no wonder you fell for him and George does suit him. Everything crossed here for both of you


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Aww he looks lovely, he looks like a cross to me, maybe got some staffie in him? 

Hope the situation with his owners works out


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

I see the staffy smile as well. great cross if that what he is.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Whiteshadow said:


> Oh dear. I really hope they will. sounds like lot of resentment issues between them they are putting on poor Bruno.
> Realistically I wouldnt build on their support for life time and get ready to financing him if you can afford it of course. It would be heart breaking for you and him if you get attatched only to get rehome again.


I will be looking for other ways to afford him just in case. They've promised they will contribute but like you said....


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Whiteshadow said:


> I see the staffy smile as well. great cross if that what he is.


I think he's a staffy cross as well. He lies with his legs out the back the way staffies do.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Well what a cute wee chap ! 

I was expecting to see a boxer though, would say he is more staffie cross as can’t see anything boxer about him ..... not that it matters. If you can sort finances out and your ready to open your heart again then that’s all that matters


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

You don't see boxer in the face? I think he is a cross cos he's tall for a staffy. I don't mind, I love staffies.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

I do see a boxer there


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

I can see some boxer in his face definitely but I think he looks more staffie or American bulldog shape. He reminds me of an AB I know called Clyde, he's a chunky boy as well and has a similar face.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> You don't see boxer in the face? I think he is a cross cos he's tall for a staffy. I don't mind, I love staffies.


I like staffie's too 

Obviously the wrinkles you think maybe boxer, but shape of the face doesn't .... but I'm seriously no expert on boxers !

If you do take him, I'd register him as staffie cross. Insurance etc would be cheaper too most probably


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He is a bit of a chubster, bless him! Soon get that off him.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

This little guy looks quite similar and he's a staffie x pug

https://terri-sutherland.deviantart.com/art/Buddy-the-Staffie-x-Pug-485803642

I think sometimes with crosses you'll never know


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Beautiful boy..

Am I only the person to see Boxer cross Bull mastiff in one picture..

However also see the 'pug' cross in another as @Westie Mum says!


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

I love guessing with cross breeds what breeds could be in them. We are always speculating what could be in Samson, I think elkhound × husky with May be some German shepherd in there as his occasional obedience must come from somewhere! (Nah I joke he is a good boy really, sometimes :Hilarious)


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> I think he's a staffy cross as well. He lies with his legs out the back the way staffies do.


Lily lies like a frog as well with the back legs out. I hope it works out for you looks like you could be good friends.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Have discovered a small ... problem. He's much more toy-orientated than he is treat-orientated. I've never had a dog like that before so how do I reward him during training? For instance, how do I train a Drop It?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Drop it...swap a toy for a higher value toy.

You can make a high value toy by putting one away in a drawer, get it out you interact make a fuss with it...to spike interest. Put it away...

This toy will become really intriguing in theory...

Then you introduce toy to the dog as you play with it...let him sniff. Take it away, put it away again.

Then just rev it up a bit each time, and let him interact on occassion good play sessions.

Always put it away..always show excitement when playing and takes the steps steady depending on the dog might take a day, 2 days a week to get it to be high value. It's so worth it to get a toy of your choice high value.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

When outside you can use a ball ( not tennis but a smooth ball )
get 2 identical ones throw the 1st and when he comes back to you tell him to drop it and only then throw the 2nd. this way he doesnt fill he is giving up his property as getting replacement.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

So how do I make him drop the highest value toy? What about Leave It? And how do I train a solid recall?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Just work steadily...and usually it's only fun if it's being played with as human. So think logically when choosing. All play stops...the play stops and the drop happens, so you reinforce on capture.

Highest value toy will help so much on things like recall...I have had terriers who aren't treat obsessed.

The identical ball works too..so you can charge up a 'high' value tennis ball and do the swap 

However not always had ball driven dogs..and identical toys can be a nightmare sometimes to find, especially on a budget or you want something to stand out


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ah right, I see! Thank you. I shall have to work out what to do with him. I'll train the dog in front of me with your advice and see what works best. I've never had a dog this uninterested in treats. Which is weird cos his owners have given me a big box of them. They must have used them as food.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Ah right, I see! Thank you. I shall have to work out what to do with him. I'll train the dog in front of me with your advice and see what works best. I've never had a dog this uninterested in treats. Which is weird cos his owners have given me a big box of them. They must have used them as food.


Bare in mind aswell that biscuit type kibble treats aren't very high value.

At our training club, some people would use cheese or hotdog sausages as high value treats. We used Webbox Liver sizzlers - not sure why but my pair went crazy for them.

Bakers sizzlers or whirlers are really crappy treats but if you put them in a treat bag with other treats they make the other treats stink to high heaven which works really well too!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That's a thought. I've tried him with ripped up whirlers and he was completely uninterested. I then trained a Stay with his Rope and he did really well. So I think he is toy-orientated. I will try him with the sausages though.

I have to be careful with his food as he really is a chubster at the moment. Can't feel his ribs even when he's lying on his side.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

I've never had a toy orientated dog either, it's almost a foreign concept to me since all mine have been so food motivated. I have worked with dogs who are though, we have a staffie cross at uni who is obsessed with his ball on a rope. It's good he's toy motivated since he needs to lose weight. I've also heard the two toy thing is good, trade off i call it. Swap one for another. Also be aware that if you bring balls/toys out with you then there's a chance they could get nicked by other dogs


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I shall start having one toy out at a time then. Once I work out which is favourite!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> Bare in mind aswell that biscuit type kibble treats aren't very high value.
> 
> At our training club, some people would use cheese or hotdog sausages as high value treats. We used Webbox Liver sizzlers - not sure why but my pair went crazy for them.
> 
> Bakers sizzlers or whirlers are really crappy treats but if you put them in a treat bag with other treats they make the other treats stink to high heaven which works really well too!


That's a good point. Dex wasn't very food motivated until I discovered sausage and squeazy Primula cheese. He loved it! Thank God, as he's definitely not toy motivated


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

It probably won't matter or occur...

I had a dog that in the house we did training toy based, and he was amazing dog...but outside no want to play with toys or play fetch...how I prayed for a dog who loved his ball.

Sometimes you yourself have to be the most rewarding thing of all! Takes time, patience and thinking how the hell can I make myself exciting enough, more exciting than pee mail! But you get there, you find away... 
However it is actually one of the most important thing anyone should learn about dog training.

Am sure you'll get there though..might be just acclimatising anyway. Eevee didn't eat for 5 days when I got her..she was drinking and eating. So he may change, once settled.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Good old Kikopup! She said to start off with a brand new toy or just a cloth, so it definitely won't be his favourite


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Buy two toys that are identical.
Throw the first ball when he brings it back bring the other ball out and act all excitedly with it (throwing it up in the air to catch, or what ever gets his attention), as soon as he drops the ball in his mouth throw the ball as his reward.
After a few repetitions he will start to spit the ball out as soon as he gets to you so you can start to add your "out" cue.

Once he is dropping on cue, you can phase out the second ball.

I used a ball in this example but any toy will work so long as they are identical


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thai is toy-orientated, isn't he? I remember you saying. 

I think George also has quite a strong prey drive. I'm guessing that is going to make recall harder?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> Thai is toy-orientated, isn't he? I remember you saying.
> 
> I think George also has quite a strong prey drive. I'm guessing that is going to make recall harder?


Yes he is.
A strong prey drive doesn't necessarily mean than recall will be harder but you may have to be vigilant so that he doesn't get practiced at chasing until you have a solid recall.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Thai is toy-orientated, isn't he? I remember you saying.
> 
> I think George also has quite a strong prey drive. I'm guessing that is going to make recall harder?


Argh, prey drive. Don't think I will ever be able to let Eddi of his lead because of it!

He is gorgeous though.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I suspect he isn't food orientated because he is overweight, he will probably change once he's back down to his proper weight. Keeping dogs a bit lean usually ensures that food will motivate them pretty well. :Smuggrin

Have you tried the dried fishy cubes? A lot of dogs find them irresistible


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

@Siskin Hadn't thought of that! Hopefully you are right.

As for his prey drive, that Mekuti harness is worth its weight in gold! This morning he spotted a squirrel on the other side of the road and, in a normal harness, would have pulled me over and ran across there in a split second. But the Mekuti stopped him dead.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> @Siskin Hadn't thought of that! Hopefully you are right.
> 
> As for his prey drive, that Mekuti harness is worth its weight in gold! This morning he spotted a squirrel on the other side of the road and, in a normal harness, would have pulled me over and ran across there in a split second. But the Mekuti stopped him dead.


That is worse than Eddi, but only because he's a lot smaller probably. Do you think you will get George off the lead?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

At the moment, no. I'm hoping to progress to the long lead once he's learnt to stop pulling. And I'll work hard on his recall but ... I'm not expecting to ever let him off in this area. Too many roads for a start.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> At the moment, no. I'm hoping to progress to the long lead once he's learnt to stop pulling. And I'll work hard on his recall but ... I'm not expecting to ever let him off in this area. Too many roads for a start.


I'm working on not pulling on the lead with Eddi, sometimes he's really bad, at others usually on the way back, he's perfect.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I think it's excitement that makes them pull so I'm not surprised he's good when he knows he's going home. George is not used to being on a lead at all. And he doesn't sniff much, he's more head up looking around.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> I think it's excitement that makes them pull so I'm not surprised he's good when he knows he's going home. George is not used to being on a lead at all. And he doesn't sniff much, he's more head up looking around.


Probably, but it can be mixed sometimes. He pulled a bit on the way back this morning.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

There's no telling with them sometimes. Are you using the Turn technique?


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> There's no telling with them sometimes. Are you using the Turn technique?


I am trying that after I saw it earlier on this thread, it will take a while.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh yeah, it will. On the TV or the video, it looks instant but it's not. George has got fed up a couple of times and just lay down and refused to move. So I wait until he's ready to move and we walk on. You have to be consistent though, and do it every time he pulls.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Teach him to give to pressure on his harness and collar. You will find this will help with pulling (more than the stop and turn method IME) and then you can work on what you want him to do when a squirrel appears.
Thai managed to snap buckles when lunging after prey, now he will watch them do their thing without issue


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

How do you do that?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ignore the shy/reactive part of the title...this works with all dogs and helps them to understand what to do when pressure is applied instead of opposition reflex taking over


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Teach him to give to pressure on his harness and collar. You will find this will help with pulling (more than the stop and turn method IME) and then you can work on what you want him to do when a squirrel appears.
> Thai managed to snap buckles when lunging after prey, now he will watch them do their thing without issue


How did you do that? I tend to just stop until he stops pulling, he turns to me, I praise him then we move on, he starts pulling again. rinse and repeat.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

bonniedog said:


> How did you do that? I tend to just stop ukntil he stops pulling, he turns to me, I praise him then we move on, he starts pulling again. rinse and repeat.


Oops posts crossed. I'll check the video out, thanks.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Impulse control exercises are very important when it comes to stopping a chase IMHO
People may look at me funny for teaching Thai a strong "leave it" (so strong that I can throw food around him without him touching it until I release him) but that "leave it" is the reason I can recall from a deer chase


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Impulse control exercises are very important when it comes to stopping a chase IMHO
> People may look at me funny for teaching Thai a strong "leave it" (so strong that I can throw food around him without him touching it until I release him) but that "leave it" is the reason I can recall from a deer chase


Will you come and train Eddi please?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ah interesting! I might try that with his rope.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've just tested him and he does know the Leave It command. I never thought to use that with his prey drive.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

It works! We've just been out for a short walk in the rain and it worked. That's why I like this place. There's always someone who knows


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> It works! We've just been out for a short walk in the rain and it worked. That's why I like this place. There's always someone who knows


I like the 'leave it' and the pressure thing, I also saw one about barking and l lunging - he needs all three! I may need to start the pressure one in the house with his harness and something he doesn't see as a lead. I've just got him to calm down at the start of his walk and I'd hate to lose that, but it might be a good one to start with.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

@Mirandashell Did you use a clicker? I've thought about it and was in the shop to buy it earlier but didn't. I noticed the woman in the video uses one.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

No, I don't. I use voice and body language. With my memory I've enough to think about without remembering to take the clicker with me!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

bonniedog said:


> @Mirandashell Did you use a clicker? I've thought about it and was in the shop to buy it earlier but didn't. I noticed the woman in the video uses one.


A clicker is a marker...
So if you are unsure before buying make the click sound with your mouth...
Instead of clicking...you can say yes/good/yay...list is endless....it's what ever you prefer...

Clicker training and use of the clicker just reinforces and helps us rather than the dog..the dog doesn't care what marker is used as long as they know what marker it is...and it means I get rewarded if that makes sense!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Not much point in buying a clicker if you can do it yourself.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I think of the marker like a pay slip. I know my work has been acknowledged, and the reward will be coming soon.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

If it works for you that's great. Just don't think it would work for me. I use vocalisation a lot as it comes more naturally. Plus with a dog that doesn't care about treats, following what was on the video would be tricky.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Oh, I don't use a clicker, I have a marker word. I just thought the analogy might help clarify how it works.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh I see! I guess I use marker words as well. Like 'leave it' and 'turn'. Then he gets a 'good boy!' when he does it.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I never wanted to use a clicker, but when I read When Pigs Fly, it seemed a good idea. Our training cane on in leaps and bounds once I introduced it. I think mainly because I’m not quick enough to mark with “yes!”, so I know that at least using the clicker they are in no doubt what it is that I’m marking. Especially with Lola, as I train her by marking every move that she makes towards the final action that I desire. Given this starts out with even just a look in the right direction, I’ve got to be quick!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> Not much point in buying a clicker if you can do it yourself.


Never bought a clicker in my life..most are freebies...although some freebies need a lot of dampening down is covering as harsh sounding...

As anything depends on the dog.

I know someone who clicker trains superbly with use of a clicker top pen.

Training can be as cheap or expensive as you like.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> I never wanted to use a clicker, but when I read When Pigs Fly, it seemed a good idea. Our training cane on in leaps and bounds once I introduced it. I think mainly because I'm not quick enough to mark with "yes!", so I know that at least using the clicker they are in no doubt what it is that I'm marking. Especially with Lola, as I train her by marking every move that she makes towards the final action that I desire. Given this starts out with even just a look in the right direction, I've got to be quick!


Eddi and us need all the help we can get! I think the clicker might work as it something I'll remember to do which, as you say, will be immediate. I may also forget to take it though!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

bonniedog said:


> Eddi and us need all the help we can get! I think the clicker might work as it something I'll remember to do which, as you say, will be immediate. I may also forget to take it though!


Try the book. I swear by it and push it at pretty much anyone who will listen! It's only when I got that that I realised that you train every dog differently - no one size fits all


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> Try the book. I swear by it and push it at pretty much anyone who will listen! It's only when I got that that I realised that you train every dog differently - no one size fits all


I'll give it a go! Eddi is coming on well actually, he just has a lot of learning to do. Still, we adopted him 3 weeks ago today, so he's doing well. Barking and lunging at other dogs is the worst thing at the moment. the elephant in the room is him trying to run off and and going straight down a foxhole! The little chap is nagging for his walk now. Bless him, I'll take him now.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

bonniedog said:


> Eddi and us need all the help we can get! I think the clicker might work as it something I'll remember to do which, as you say, will be immediate. I may also forget to take it though!


@MiffyMoo brilliant book recommendation

I think @Lauren5159 might have some terrier based training book recommendations to help too.

Sorry OP going slightly off topic


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lullabydream said:


> @MiffyMoo brilliant book recommendation
> 
> I think @Lauren5159 might have some terrier based training book recommendations to help too.
> 
> Sorry OP going slightly off topic


It changed my life! Although the box thing at the beginning infuriated me! I had to look up YouTube videos of how to do it properly. I also realised then that unless I'm 100% sure of what it is I'm looking for, how on Earth is she going to get it?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> If it works for you that's great. Just don't think it would work for me. I use vocalisation a lot as it comes more naturally. Plus with a dog that doesn't care about treats, following what was on the video would be tricky.


The methods on the video can be followed no matter the reward, you just replace the treat with what the individual dog finds rewarding.
If balls are the reward then you throw the ball as a reward for giving to pressure, if it's tug then you play tug as a reward for giving to pressure, you can even use sniffing as a reward if that is what the dog finds high value.

You don't have to use food in reward based training, I use a mixture of rewards depending on what I am doing and what dog I am doing it with


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

No worries!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Did I miss something? Is he living with you now @Mirandashell ?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh sorry, did I not say? Yes he is. It was meant to be an afternoon to see how he was but he ended up staying. We came to an agreement on the finances and so far it's all good. He's curled up next to me on the sofa at the moment.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> Oh sorry, did I not say? Yes he is. It was meant to be an afternoon to see how he was but he ended up staying. We came to an agreement on the finances and so far it's all good. He's curled up next to me on the sofa at the moment.


Wonderful news, have you settled on his name?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

George. And he's already answering to it!


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

lullabydream said:


> @MiffyMoo brilliant book recommendation
> 
> I think @Lauren5159 might have some terrier based training book recommendations to help too.
> 
> Sorry OP going slightly off topic


There's a book called Terrier-Centric from Tenacious to Tremendous which I found super helpful! I'd highly recommend it, even if it's just to give you a little bit more info on how a Terrier thinks etc. But most training books about Clicker Training etc will really help, as long as you realise that a Terrier isn't a Border Collie and they tend to find different things rewarding and are motivated by different things, it's not a one size fits all, just like with most breeds. As long as you know what it is that drives your dog, not only as a Terrier but also as an individual -you'll find a lot of books helpful


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Did I miss something? Is he living with you now @Mirandashell ?


Glad it wasn't just me. Was scrolling through wondering if he had come back this morning for another trial or whether he stayed the night lol



Mirandashell said:


> Oh sorry, did I not say? Yes he is. It was meant to be an afternoon to see how he was but he ended up staying. We came to an agreement on the finances and so far it's all good. He's curled up next to me on the sofa at the moment.


Welcome to PF George :Kiss


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I thought I'd said. Sorry!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> I thought I'd said. Sorry!


No worries, too much excitement


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

George has found Ty's rubber giraffe in the Super Secret Hidey Place (a hole in the grass!) and is now having a good old chew! He's already removed one foot and is presently chomping on his head. Poor Geoffrey


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

This dog is definitely a chewer! I shall have to see about getting him something to chew on that won't end up in little pieces all over the floor.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Had a small victory today. Took him round the shops on his short lead to give him a bit more exposure to a busy area. I went into the pet shop and bought him a rubber hedgehog squeaky toy. On the way back we cut through the Field so he could have some quiet time and some training. And for the first time I put him on his long lead. He was really good. He didn't pull me, he came back when he was called and he behaved really well. I've decided to keep the squeaky toy as an attention-getter when we are out on walks. 

So slowly but surely on we go.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Slowly but surely will reap rewards  

How is he doing in the house, settled now or still pacing a little ?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He's pretty settled now. Only pacing when he needs to go out in the garden. I'm slightly worried that he hasn't eaten very much. He doesn't seem to want to and his old owners said he sometimes doesn't eat during the day. Not sure now he got to be such a chunker. 

He has a vet appointment on Monday for a booster so I might get the vet to give him the once-over. Especially his teeth and gums in case they are sore. The shape of his mouth makes them difficult to see.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Had a small victory today. Took him round the shops on his short lead to give him a bit more exposure to a busy area. I went into the pet shop and bought him a rubber hedgehog squeaky toy. On the way back we cut through the Field so he could have some quiet time and some training. And for the first time I put him on his long lead. He was really good. He didn't pull me, he came back when he was called and he behaved really well. I've decided to keep the squeaky toy as an attention-getter when we are out on walks.
> 
> So slowly but surely on we go.


I never thought of that with Eddi as he loves squeaky toys. I shall try that tomorrow. Does he chew your things or just his toys? Eddi usually chews his own toys, but I've just stopped him from devouring a tissue that he nicked out of the box! Better not continue with that kind of thing.
Small victories are so rewarding. I'm managing to get Eddi out of the garden without the nut job stuff every time now. I have to get him calm before he comes out of the garden gate next.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> He's pretty settled now. Only pacing when he needs to go out in the garden. I'm slightly worried that he hasn't eaten very much. He doesn't seem to want to and his old owners said he sometimes doesn't eat during the day. Not sure now he got to be such a chunker.
> 
> He has a vet appointment on Monday for a booster so I might get the vet to give him the once-over. Especially his teeth and gums in case they are sore. The shape of his mouth makes them difficult to see.


I wouldn't worry about not eating.

If he's got energy and drinking that's fine.

Eevee didn't eat for 5 days and was an 8 month chihuahua, with loads of energy. She just was getting used to us, and the upheaval. She had a slight 'fat' reserve too!...now she will eat anything and everything given chance. Such a foodie!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I look after my mum and my sisters dogs when they go on holiday, both boys don’t eat much for the first few days even though they’ve stayed here plenty of times and I see them both once a week at least! 

What food is he on ? 

If it carries on too long then you could try adding a bit of wet to make it a bit more interesting for him.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> I wouldn't worry about not eating.
> 
> If he's got energy and drinking that's fine.
> 
> Eevee didn't eat for 5 days and was an 8 month chihuahua, with loads of energy. She just was getting used to us, and the upheaval. She had a slight 'fat' reserve too!...now she will eat anything and everything given chance. Such a foodie!


That's good to hear! He is drinking and he's got plenty of energy when we are out. He's had little bits here and there and he's had a couple of poos so I will stop worrying and see how he goes.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> That's good to hear! He is drinking and he's got plenty of energy when we are out. He's had little bits here and there and he's had a couple of poos so I will stop worrying and see how he goes.


I did phone my vets as Eevee was a toy breed but as she wasn't showing signs of hyperglycaemia...that's when I needed to be worried...

Like you say he's a big boy...so he must like food! Eevee was a little plump so she was fine too


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Westie Mum said:


> I look after my mum and my sisters dogs when they go on holiday, both boys don't eat much for the first few days even though they've stayed here plenty of times and I see them both once a week at least!
> 
> What food is he on ?
> 
> If it carries on too long then you could try adding a bit of wet to make it a bit more interesting for him.


He's on wet. I've mixed in some moist kibble and some rice. He's had some pieces of boiled chicken today. Didn't eat all of those either. He's had some Webbox meaty chews which he seems to like. So he's had food, just not as much as a dog his size should have. And like I said, I was a bit surprised cos I thought he'd be mad for food, given the size of him. I'll see how he goes over the weekend.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

bonniedog said:


> I never thought of that with Eddi as he loves squeaky toys. I shall try that tomorrow. Does he chew your things or just his toys? Eddi usually chews his own toys, but I've just stopped him from devouring a tissue that he nicked out of the box! Better not continue with that kind of thing.
> Small victories are so rewarding. I'm managing to get Eddi out of the garden without the nut job stuff every time now. I have to get him calm before he comes out of the garden gate next.


 So far he's been pretty good with not taking my stuff. But then he's only been here a couple of days so I don't think his full personality has come out yet. We will see how he is when he feels more secure.

As for the squeaky, it really worked this afternoon. I will let you know how we go with it.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> He's on wet. I've mixed in some moist kibble and some rice. He's had some pieces of boiled chicken today. Didn't eat all of those either. He's had some Webbox meaty chews which he seems to like. So he's had food, just not as much as a dog his size should have. And like I said, I was a bit surprised cos I thought he'd be mad for food, given the size of him. I'll see how he goes over the weekend.


As long as something is going in then I wouldn't worry too much. It's still early days.

Personally, esp as he isn't treat motivated for training, I'd cut out all the treats until he is eating all his meals, each and every time.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

> Small victories are so rewarding. I'm managing to get Eddi out of the garden without the nut job stuff every time now. I have to get him calm before he comes out of the garden gate next.


Baby steps, baby steps! 



> Personally, esp as he isn't treat motivated for training, I'd cut out all the treats until he is eating all his meals, each and every time.


True, but I was just worried that he'd eaten barely anything at all since I've had so at least he's got something in him.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> True, but I was just worried that he'd eaten barely anything at all since I've had so at least he's got something in him.


They are a bit like kids though, if you let them have sweets they don't eat their dinner 

My tiny Lucy went over a week without eating anything after we lost our last dog and then did eventually start eating again ..... I don't think many dogs would starve themselves but they do stop eating if they are unsettled. Try not to worry


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He's eating his dinner! Yeh! Well, some of his dinner. We had a good walk and I took to a quiet place again and put him on his long lead. 

Thanks for the advice, everyone.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

@bonniedog One more thing with the squeaky - I'm using it very rarely so that George doesn't get used to it and learn to ignore it. He tends to get fixated on things like cats and squirrels and the only thing that gets him out of it is me using a really excited squeaky voice. Which unfortunately also winds him up and makes him harder to walk. But one squeak of the hedgehog and he comes out of his trance and comes back to me without getting excited.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Do neutered dogs hump through over-excitement? We were playing Tuggy with Geoffery and then he pulled at my leg so I stood up thinking he wanted to go out the back. And then it happened! Quick wrap of the front legs and off he went. I said No! and moved away so he had to let me go. At least now I know what he does when he's over his threshold. 

The things people don't tell you when they want to get rid of their dog........


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Yes. Timber will do it if he is tired and over stimulated. Victoria Stillwell had a good piece on it on www.positively.com - let me know if you need any help finding it.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ah cool. Thank you! Another thing learned. I think part of the problem is that Ty had a more expressive face so it was easier to tell. I need to learn George's cues.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He's now flaked out on the carpet!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> He's on wet. I've mixed in some moist kibble and some rice. He's had some pieces of boiled chicken today. Didn't eat all of those either. He's had some Webbox meaty chews which he seems to like. So he's had food, just not as much as a dog his size should have. And like I said, I was a bit surprised cos I thought he'd be mad for food, given the size of him. I'll see how he goes over the weekend.


I wonder if the old owners fed him tidbits throughout the day, so he's holding out for those. cake and biccies trump real food every time!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I think he was. He sits and stares at me when I'm eating so I'm training a 'go away'.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> @bonniedog One more thing with the squeaky - I'm using it very rarely so that George doesn't get used to it and learn to ignore it. He tends to get fixated on things like cats and squirrels and the only thing that gets him out of it is me using a really excited squeaky voice. Which unfortunately also winds him up and makes him harder to walk. But one squeak of the hedgehog and he comes out of his trance and comes back to me without getting excited.


I was just going to use it for a bit of training in the house, then take it outside to see if I can get through his nuttiness! His prey drive is so strong, he becomes frenzied when on a scent. He's both lovely and a challenge!


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> He's now flaked out on the carpet!


Sweet peace!!!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Do neutered dogs hump through over-excitement? We were playing Tuggy with Geoffery and then he pulled at my leg so I stood up thinking he wanted to go out the back. And then it happened! Quick wrap of the front legs and off he went. I said No! and moved away so he had to let me go. At least now I know what he does when he's over his threshold.
> 
> The things people don't tell you when they want to get rid of their dog........


Oscar humps Poppy's head when he is over excited or if he's got wet in the rain or had a bath 

My old female Dog used to hump my sister .... was the only person she ever did it too !


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> Oscar humps Poppy's head when he is over excited or if he's got wet in the rain or had a bath
> 
> My old female Dog used to hump my sister .... was the only person she ever did it too !


Lola spends half her life trying to hump poor Dex (and me). she can go from zero to massively overexcited in a heartbeat. Dex does it when he's stressed


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

My last two retrievers used to hump each other after they had been playing (both bitches). It was like they were reestablishing the status quo


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Quick update on George.

It's going pretty well. Now he's eating I have found that he is treat-orientated. Which is a relief for me as I know what I'm doing with treats. His recall still isn't 100% solid so I'm being really careful with him. On his last walk of the day, when it's late, I do let him off the lead and let him bomb out like a mad thing for about half an hour. I call him to me with a bit of sausage or boiled chicken every so often and so far he's been coming straight back.

I had my windows replaced yesterday and he was fine with everyone. In fact he was a bit of a pest as he wanted to investigate everything.  But he's friendly to everyone, which is good.

He has a very big bark which he mostly uses on next door's cat.

And on this morning's walk he made me very proud. On one side of the road was a bloke with a GSD who did that weird howly bark that GSDs do when they want to eat something they aren't allowed. (  ) And on our side of the road was a Staffy behind a gate who was alarm-barking. I kept talking to George and kept walking him, not allowing him to fix on either of them and he walked past without going nuts! I was so proud of him he got two bits of sausage!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Quick update on George.
> 
> It's going pretty well. Now he's eating I have found that he is treat-orientated. Which is a relief for me as I know what I'm doing with treats. His recall still isn't 100% solid so I'm being really careful with him. On his last walk of the day, when it's late, I do let him off the lead and let him bomb out like a mad thing for about half an hour. I call him to me with a bit of sausage or boiled chicken every so often and so far he's been coming straight back.
> 
> ...


That's great! It sounds like he's loving it as much as you are. How's his diet going?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Pretty well. I shall have to get a photo of his tuck. 

Although.... I probably shouldn't have posted the above cos he was an absolute PITA on his afternoon walk! OTT, leaping around on his lead, barking, pulling..... took 10 mins to get him calm enough to listen to me. And lots and lots of sausage bits!


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Pretty well. I shall have to get a photo of his tuck.
> 
> Although.... I probably shouldn't have posted the above cos he was an absolute PITA on his afternoon walk! OTT, leaping around on his lead, barking, pulling..... took 10 mins to get him calm enough to listen to me. And lots and lots of sausage bits!


I can't get Eddi to focus on me at all when there is another dog and he's barking, pulling and lunging.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've found that waving a bit of sausage and saying 'come here George! come here!' in a play voice makes him turn and then I jog in the other direction still squeaking. He comes with me, gets the treat and then I turn again and repeat until his focus is on me. The important part is breaking his fix on the other dog.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

We need more photos of new boxer friend. Sox will do anything for sausage also. Sounds like it's going well and he is enjoying his new home.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

In some ways it's like having a puppy because even though he is two years old he's got no lead-manners at all. So I have had to start from scratch with him. The Mekuti harness is an absolute blessing as he can't pull me over when he's wearing it. 

I think he's settled though. We are getting to know each other and his real personality is beginning to show. I've found out buying him squeaky toys is a waste of time as he rips them open to get the squeak out! And plushies get disembowelled in no time at all. There is presently stuffing all over the floor from a Humpty.


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> I've found that waving a bit of sausage and saying 'come here George! come here!' in a play voice makes him turn and then I jog in the other direction still squeaking. He comes with me, gets the treat and then I turn again and repeat until his focus is on me. The important part is breaking his fix on the other dog.


Sounds like I'm being negative, but he's not interested in food once he gets a fixation in his head. I just avoid other dogs or turn and get him away.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Have you tried doing the squeaky voice and the jumping about at the same time?


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Have you tried doing the squeaky voice and the jumping about at the same time?


Tried that, but he just keep pulling and he's so strong!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

They’re such sods. Lull you into a false sense of security and then bam!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ain't that the truth!


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## bonniedog (May 24, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> They're such sods. Lull you into a false sense of security and then bam!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> That's great! It sounds like he's loving it as much as you are. How's his diet going?


Got the photo I was after!

So if you compare this on the day I got him:










To this I took this morning:


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Got the photo I was after!
> 
> So if you compare this on the day I got him:
> 
> ...


You can definitely tell he's not so "round" now. Well done you


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thank you! The first two days when he didn't eat much really helped. He's young so he loses the weight easily. Oh how I remember those days.....


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Thank you! The first two days when he didn't eat much really helped. He's young so he loses the weight easily. Oh how I remember those days.....


Me too :Arghh

Won't be long before he is looking much better I'm sure


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

My heart is aching writing this but.... this is not working out. I've had George 4 weeks now and things aren't getting any better on walks. In fact they are getting worse. I've been persistent in the training but he is not getting it and now he's got to the point where he just ignores me. And yes, I know it's most likely my fault but TBH, I'm beginning to see why he's had 3 owners in two years. He's a very stubborn dog who will do it if he wants to. And as he's a big dog, that means me getting pulled along when he wants to pull me along. I think it's down to there being no real bond between us. This will sound like I'm blaming him but he's not a loveable dog. 

The problem is we are both getting really frustrated on walks and that's not good for either of us. A walk is supposed to be the highlight of a dog's day. A major part of it is that I can't give him the amount of exercise he needs. He can't go off-lead very often cos his recall is pretty much non-existent now and with CFS I can't walk far enough for him. I am lost as to what else I can do. And before there is any mention of a head-collar, it's hard enough to get his harness on now. A headcollar has no chance once he realises what it's for.

A behavourist/trainer would be a great idea but only if someone else can pay for it. 

I don't know.... I feel bloody awful but I know I can't stand another possibly 15 years of this. And it's not fair on George either. I'm not the right owner for him. He'd be a lot happier with someone who can take him trekking.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> My heart is aching writing this but.... this is not working out. I've had George 4 weeks now and things aren't getting any better on walks. In fact they are getting worse. I've been persistent in the training but he is not getting it and now he's got to the point where he just ignores me. And yes, I know it's most likely my fault but TBH, I'm beginning to see why he's had 3 owners in two years. He's a very stubborn dog who will do it if he wants to. And as he's a big dog, that means me getting pulled along when he wants to pull me along. I think it's down to there being no real bond between us. This will sound like I'm blaming him but he's not a loveable dog.
> 
> The problem is we are both getting really frustrated on walks and that's not good for either of us. A walk is supposed to be the highlight of a dog's day. A major part of it is that I can't give him the amount of exercise he needs. He can't go off-lead very often cos his recall is pretty much non-existent now and with CFS I can't walk far enough for him. I am lost as to what else I can do. And before there is any mention of a head-collar, it's hard enough to get his harness on now. A headcollar has no chance once he realises what it's for.
> 
> ...


Oh lovely! You've saw my videos of Lily on our walk? She doesn't even look at me but there are ways to change that, lots of ideas in the LLW thread. They aren't physically intensive either.

Hold him on his lead so he doesn't have a huge area to explore - stand still and wait until he looks at you, feed or play with him and be super excited and fun for him for a few seconds and repeat for a short 2-3 min session. Could start indoors and then take it outside. Helps him to learn to check in with you - every 5-7 seconds him looking at you is the end goal without you instructing him to do so. Couple of 2-3 min sessions a day might help.

There's touch - idea is to hold your hand out, he touches/pushes it with his nose and you reward with food or a play. Gradually build up the duration he is expected to touch your hand for the reward and that can be used to control his head, get past people, barking dogs or even during exams at the vets if you build up the behaviour around distractions. Me and Lily don't yet get touch - we also have videos of our failed attempts at that :Bag

What's the problem with putting his harness on? Giving into harness pressure is really easy to teach as long as he is comfortable wearing one.

Do you have any secure areas you could let him off lead? Have you tried mini training sessions, scent games, playing in general or enrichment toys? They should help tire him out and improve your bond.

You were incredibly supportive when I was struggling with Lily - it does get better and there are ways to help. In your own words


Mirandashell said:


> Sounds to me like you are doing fine. It's just this phase to get through. And it does end, honest. *I know it feels horrendous at the moment but I swear to you it will end at some point. And if you keep up her training you will have a well-mannered beautiful dog that will make you proud.*


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I know, I know. But George is not a puppy, he's an adult dog. And all that training would work wonders if there was a bond between us but there isn't. That's the problem. And all the training I've put in has made things worse, not better.

ETA: We play games together, we do Find It and scent games, we do all of that. I promise you I've put the work in. It's just not working.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> I know, I know. But George is not a puppy, he's an adult dog. And all that training would work wonders if there was a bond between us but there isn't. That's the problem. And all the training I've put in has made things worse, not better.
> 
> ETA: We play games together, we do Find It and scent games, we do all of that. I promise you I've put the work in. It's just not working.


You sound like you've made your mind up.

Bonds take time to develop. You probably already know that but there was a thread not too long ago and many people said it took months for them to bond with their dog - I imagine it's pretty rare to have an instant bond. I don't have a great bond with Lily - it's only fairly recently that I feel like I've started to bond with her.

There's lots of information around on the internet how to help improve your relationship and engagement with him, there's even a book called dog sport skills 1 all about building relationship and engagement.

Wish you the best with whatever you decide to do


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm late to the party, although have read through the thread 

Firstly dogs are not stubborn in the sense we tend to think. He's not getting it just because it's been 4 weeks & you have no developed bond as you rightly say. Good leash manners take longer to master than 4 weeks!

Are you using a back attaching harness or front clipping one? The front non pull types are often much better to prevent pulling.

He's only 2 years old so he's not a write off or unable to learn. If your mind is well & truly made up will you be returning him to his previous owner?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I use a Mekuti front-attaching balance harness which worked at first and now doesn't. He will now pull even on that and will lie down in protest. I stand still and wait for him to get back up. Then I say walk on and he walks. I reward him for walking nicely and then he spots something interesting and just drags me to it. I do Turn and he turns, walks, takes the treat and then spots something else and off we go again. I've done excited voice, I've kept it consistent. I play with him at home, we do training. I have put the work in and I appreciate it can take longer than 4 weeks. But there's been no improvement at all. And as I said, I have CFS and can't be dragged along behind a lead as it hurts. I'm not blaming George. I'm just not the right owner. 

I'm seeing his previous owners today and will discuss it with them.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I’m so sorry, this is so sad. All I can say is that, when I first got Dex, it was horrific. I was his fourth home and he did not trust me one little bit. Added to that, I was outdogged and scared of him, it really was a recipe for disaster. 

It took months to start forming a bond, and even after that it was very slow going. He has dreadful trust issues. But even when we were working through it, I noticed tiny improvements. He slowly started to trust that I would look after him on walks, so the panic pulling decreased (it will never go away, but it’s much better). He is also happy to sit and let me shovel treats into him whilst dogs walk past now, whereas he used to fly at them (frustrated greeter, not aggressive). 

I don’t really know much about boxers, but my guys pull a lot as well, which is why I got a walking belt. It means that my hands are free to dish out treats the second they do anything positive (look at me, drop back towards me etc.). They always will be pullers, and the delight in the sniffs and trying to chase a squirrel will never go away. It was only when I realised that and that they would never walk to heel that I relaxed, and consequently we all started enjoying our walks more. 

Things also hugely improved when I started running with them. There are a lot of commands, so the dog is stretching it’s legs and using its brain at the same time. Even a half hour run/walk was enough to see them collapsed in the garden when we got home. I noticed that Dex started listening to my commands a lot more on walks, once we started running.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks Miffy. Honestly, this isn't something I've decided on a whim. And I wish I could run with him but unfortunately that's not possible. Like I said, it's not him, it's me.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Might it be worth contacting a rescue about him, but keeping on as foster?
That way he'll always have backup, but he won't need to be unsettled again so soon, if possible


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That's what I'm going to talk to his old owners about. Don't worry, this isn't going to be done all of a sudden. I will try my best to do it properly.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I would suggest Miranda that if he is ignoring you it's because you simply haven't found what motivates him. 4weeks is no time at all to teach loose lead walking, nor develop a bond for that matter.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Thanks Miffy. Honestly, this isn't something I've decided on a whim. And I wish I could run with him but unfortunately that's not possible. Like I said, it's not him, it's me.


I understand, and also know that you'll only do the best for him. It is never a given that it will work out. You've tried your best, and you're being very thoughtful about the future.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

It took me over a year to truly bond with Thai, 4 weeks is no time at all when taking on an adult dog that needs training.
However, saying that, if you don't think you are the right fit for him (no shame in admitting that, honestly there isn't) then it's best to find him a home sooner rather than later IMHO


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

StormyThai said:


> It took me over a year to truly bond with Thai, 4 weeks is no time at all when taking on an adult dog that needs training.
> However, saying that, if you don't think you are the right fit for him (no shame in admitting that, honestly there isn't) then it's best to find him a home sooner rather than later IMHO


 That's what I was thinking.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

As everyone else has said, 4 weeks really is no time to bond. Even with puppies it takes a lot longer and puppies are cute to make us want to bond. Obviously with an adult it’s different.

Do you think you are trying too hard, too quickly ?

Forget lead manners etc, just try to manage walks. Try a walking belt, that should help loads with not being yanked by your arms. Let walks just be enjoyable for now and then work on having a well behaved dog as the time goes on.

Edited to add: our last training club was £5 a session.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That's the thing though, Westie Mum, walks aren't enjoyable.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> That's the thing though, Westie Mum, walks aren't enjoyable.


But they won't be if you are stressing about everything. He will pick up on the stress too.

Obviously if you made your decision then that's fine (and like @StormyThai said, best not to leave it too long) but if you're willing to keep trying then honestly, just relax. Deep breaths and just try to enjoy the good things, no matter how little.

Right now, it doesn't sound too dissimilar to puppy blues. It's the same 'what the hell have i done' feeling.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Do you have to take him for walks? If walks are stressful to both of you why not forget about them for the time being and concentrate more on training games and letting the relationship between you develop. When we got Arthur from rescue he spent the first 9 months - a year totally ignoring us on walks, not interacting with us at all, even when we sat down for our picnic and our other dogs came to join us and beg for a bit of food he would be at the end of a long line sat facing away from us sniffing the air like he was nothing to do with us.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Do you think it would be ok to not take him for walks? Not something I've ever done but if it would work then it's worth a try, I guess.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Do you think it would be ok to not take him for walks? Not something I've ever done but if it would work then it's worth a try, I guess.


Yup, do lots of brain training and games as well as his usual training. Walks shouldn't be stressful for either of you


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Hm... it's certainly an idea. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Thanks everyone


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Hm... it's certainly an idea. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Thanks everyone


Get cracking with Kikopup


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've had a mooch and he is presently trying to work out how to get kibble out of cardboard boxes, His present method with the box that is too small to get his head in is to kick the box across the carpet!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

What about a dog walker to help?


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> What about a dog walker to help?


^^ That's a good idea! 
If funds are tight - what about asking a friend or neighbour?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've been mooching through dog-training websites and found this:

https://www.dognition.com/portal/memberships

One of the board is Victoria Stilwell. I don't know the others but one of them looks familiar from a recent documentary on how dogs learn. I was thinking of buying a one-off assessment but wanted to know if anyone has heard of this. Money is tight so I don't want to spend whatever $19 is in Sterling unless it's worth it.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Do you think it would be ok to not take him for walks? Not something I've ever done but if it would work then it's worth a try, I guess.


While the majority of dogs here do get walked, there are countless that don't ever get walked, so yes, for a short time it would be perfectly fine.

I've always altered walks to suit. No set times and we always have a day every week or so where we don't go out. Walks are then not demanded, I have never wanted dogs that demand to go out at set times because that's what's they are used too. It's a nightmare when you're poorly.

My mums two MUST go out and when she's poorly Im guilt tripped into taking them. They will NOT settle otherwise.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

ShibaPup said:


> ^^ That's a good idea!
> If funds are tight - what about asking a friend or neighbour?


I don't really know anyone I could ask. I don't know many other dog walkers here as Ty wasn't very keen on other dogs so never had the chance to get to know other dog walkers. And with George I'm too busy concentrating on what he's doing.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Westie Mum said:


> While the majority of dogs here do get walked, there are countless that don't ever get walked, so yes, for a short time it would be perfectly fine.


I'll do that then. If it takes the tension out of our time together, it's all good. I shall use brain games and do training that gets him focused on me more now that has completely gone.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> As everyone else has said, 4 weeks really is no time to bond. Even with puppies it takes a lot longer and puppies are cute to make us want to bond. Obviously with an adult it's different.
> 
> Do you think you are trying too hard, too quickly ?
> 
> ...


Walks weren't enjoyable for me for a good few years, some days they still aren't...


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2017)

Im sorry I think not walking a 2yr old high energy breed is a very bad idea as he might get more frostrated from pented energy . Could the former owners help you get a good dog walker even for twice a week? alternatively can you take him somewhere to run on long lead? its much easier to walk/work with a tired dog and of course mental training at home but not only. Im not trying to change your mind but 4weeks is early days and it might be a version of puppy blues.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

What gave you the impression he's a high-energy breed? He's a boxer or possibly mastiff (we're not sure) crossed with something fairly lazy so he spends a fair amount of time asleep.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2017)

I thought he is a staffy cross boxer?
In my experience when a dog gets off lead time and you work on his recall and make him come after you it always massively improves their walk on the lead and by off lead I also mean using long line lead for safety.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeah.... he has no recall yet so very rarely gets any off-lead time. I have thought about this quite carefully.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Whiteshadow said:


> I thought he is a staffy cross boxer?
> In my experience when a dog gets off lead time and you work on his recall and make him come after you it always massively improves their walk on the lead and by off lead I also mean using long line lead for safety.


It's perfectly fine to not do walks and to replace with mentally exhausting training instead, whilst working through issues


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Mirandashell said:


> Yeah.... he has no recall yet so very rarely gets any off-lead time. I have thought about this quite carefully.


Which isn't the end of the world for a high energy dog, you just have to find other ways.....


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> What gave you the impression he's a high-energy breed? He's a boxer or possibly mastiff (we're not sure) crossed with something fairly lazy so he spends a fair amount of time asleep.


Boxers are a high energy breed though. And they're complete and utter PITAs most of their lives. I love the breed, but realistically they're not for everyone.

It happens. There are situations where a dog and owner just don't match. 
This is also one of the reasons why rescues and good breeders are so picky (seemingly unreasonably so sometimes) about who ends up with their dogs and try so hard to match the right dog personality with a compatible owner personality.

Might be worth really considering what you're looking for in a dog. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this guy is a typical, obnoxious, OTT boxer/staffy cross. Realistically he's going to be a PITA for a long, long time. He's not every going to be "easy" to walk. He's going to require lots of training, and even with training, he will need lots of managing and attention on walks. This is not the kind of dog you slap a leash on and go for a leisurely stroll. Even if you get a solid recall going (which is very possibly with this kind of dog) you'll still have to have eyes in the back of your head, and be ready to intervene and head-off potential problems constantly throughout the walk. 
Really think long and hard about whether this is something you're willing and able to do.

If you DO decide to keep him, you're going to need professional help. This doesn't have to be expensive or time consuming, but it's a commitment well worth making.

If you decide not to keep him (no shame in that), please make sure you go through a reputable rescue who does thorough assessments and is willing to provide the training and support he needs. 
In fact, if you go through a reputable rescue, and ofter to foster, they might have trainers available to help you while you foster at no cost to you. It's worth checking in to.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

You could use a training line so that he can have a run in the right places.

Rudi has been a horrible puller and she's still, at two and a half years old, a work in progress, but I can't imagine not walking her at all.

I tend to walk her to the park on a short lead and let her run once we're in there.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Whiteshadow said:


> I thought he is a staffy cross boxer?
> In my experience when a dog gets off lead time and you work on his recall and make him come after you it always massively improves their walk on the lead and by off lead I also mean using long line lead for safety.


I've got a high energy english pointer and he is never let off the lead, he sometimes gets on a long line but spends a great deal of his life on a shortish lead attached to my walking belt. Some dogs no matter how hard you work with them are safe off a lead. I don't think anyone was suggesting the OP never walk her dog again but that for the time being to take the pressure off them both taking a break from walking and working on their relationship at home is perfectly acceptable.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thank you RPH. It won't be forever, it will just be until there's a stronger bond between us and he pays more attention to me. We need to rebuild our relationship and the less stress the better at the moment. 

I'm not expecting him to turn into the perfect dog who is going to amble along with me but just checking in with me and responding to his name would be a start!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> Thank you RPH. It won't be forever, it will just be until there's a stronger bond between us and he pays more attention to me. We need to rebuild our relationship and the less stress the better at the moment.
> 
> I'm not expecting him to turn into the perfect dog who is going to amble along with me but just checking in with me and responding to his name would be a start!


Well if you manage to achieve that you will have done better than us with Arthur :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Whilst not walking a dog for a few days, even a week isn't an issue, relationship building will take far longer than that and I'd personally not want to keep a dog in any longer than that. Mental activities are all well & good, but don't totally replace physical exercise & depending on what types of activities you do with him throughout the day, he still may become quite pent up with unused energy.

I agree though that finding professional help doesn't have to be expensive. When I was using behaviourists I never paid more than £45 for one and that was for the initial consultation and then just follow up emails. Training classes are usually no more than a fiver a week. But I appreciate classes are not for everyone.

Honestly, I'd try working with him at home...practising leash manners in and around the home. Then, I'd consider using a dog walker. If that isn't an option, if classes are not an option, I'd talk to his previous owner about getting him set up with a good, reputable, rescue. As Ouesi said, offering to foster may even bring the added benefit of a trainer helping out in the short term until he finds his new home.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm on £80 a week. Classes ain't happening. Nor are dog walkers.

Look, I appreciate the advice but anything that will cost money isn't possible. 

As for fostering, I'm not really sure I see the point as I'm still going to have the same problems with him as I do now. And as I already know, you have to go through a process to be a fosterer.

Anyway, I will see how it goes over the next few days and what happens.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Ouesi's post was full of good info. Have included it in the quote for you although not sure you can still see quoted replies?

Honestly, I'd rehome then if that's the case Miranda. You have a young dog who IS going to require more than what you're probably able to offer.



ouesi said:


> Boxers are a high energy breed though. And they're complete and utter PITAs most of their lives. I love the breed, but realistically they're not for everyone.
> 
> It happens. There are situations where a dog and owner just don't match.
> This is also one of the reasons why rescues and good breeders are so picky (seemingly unreasonably so sometimes) about who ends up with their dogs and try so hard to match the right dog personality with a compatible owner personality.
> ...


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> I'm on £80 a week. Classes ain't happening. Nor are dog walkers.
> 
> Look, I appreciate the advice but anything that will cost money isn't possible. And I have no idea what Ouesi said because, as she knows, she's on my ignore list. Hopefully whatever she wrote wasn't having a go at me but could be helpful for other people.
> 
> ...


Ouesi posted some really good advice for you - I'd read it. IMHO Ouesi gives out excellent advice, along with other members I've become rather fond of on here, they've helped give me hope with Lily.

A few days isn't going to be long enough. You knew you'd be taking on an adult dog who'd need a lot of work and training.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Whilst not walking a dog for a few days, even a week isn't an issue, relationship building will take far longer than that and I'd personally not want to keep a dog in any longer than that. Mental activities are all well & good, but don't totally replace physical exercise & depending on what types of activities you do with him throughout the day, he still may become quite pent up with unused energy.
> 
> I agree though that finding professional help doesn't have to be expensive. When I was using behaviourists I never paid more than £45 for one and that was for the initial consultation and then just follow up emails. Training classes are usually no more than a fiver a week. But I appreciate classes are not for everyone.
> 
> Honestly, I'd try working with him at home...practising leash manners in and around the home. Then, I'd consider using a dog walker. If that isn't an option, if classes are not an option, I'd talk to his previous owner about getting him set up with a good, reputable, rescue. As Ouesi said, offering to foster may even bring the added benefit of a trainer helping out in the short term until he finds his new home.


I have to disagree, as you and most longer term members know when Indie was 13 months old she was diagnosed with multiple orthopaedic conditions and underwent 5 operations over a 12 month period, each of these necessitated long periods of house arrest, much of the time confined to a pen. It was perfectly possible to keep her happy and stimulated without taking her out for walks. Not ideal of course but I know of a couple of people with dogs that are so freaked out by other dogs or outside stimulus that their owner's have made the decision to keep them at home and not walk them. @Mirandashell did manage to walk her previous dog and I'm sure given time she will manage this boy too but given he was hardly ever walked in his previous home and that was already his second home (or was it his 3rd?) I can't see why there has to be a rush to get him out walking. Looking back at our time with Mabel (our previous rescue rottie bitch) I wish to God I'd taken more time instead of trying to rush her into walks when she clearly wasn't ready having spent over 8 months in a kennel and being stressed by everything, perhaps she wouldn't have ended up quite such a nightmare if I had.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I have to disagree, as you and most longer term members know when Indie was 13 months old she was diagnosed with multiple orthopaedic conditions and underwent 5 operations over a 12 month period, each of these necessitated long periods of house arrest, much of the time confined to a pen. It was perfectly possible to keep her happy and stimulated without taking her out for walks. Not ideal of course but I know of a couple of people with dogs that are so freaked out by other dogs or outside stimulus that their owner's have made the decision to keep them at home and not walk them. @Mirandashell did manage to walk her previous dog and I'm sure given time she will manage this boy too but given he was hardly ever walked in his previous home and that was already his second home (or was it his 3rd?) I can't see why there has to be a rush to get him out walking. Looking back at our time with Mabel (our previous rescue rottie bitch) I wish to God I'd taken more time instead of trying to rush her into walks when she clearly wasn't ready having spent over 8 months in a kennel and being stressed by everything, perhaps she wouldn't have ended up quite such a nightmare if I had.


Obviously, it would not have been wise to walk Indie whilst she was recovering from major surgery.

Mabel was not ready for the outside World and, as you say, it may not have been the best idea to walk her, though I'm sure we do what we think is best and we all can look back with the benefit of hindsight sometimes and wish we had done it differently.

The OP's dog, however, appears to love his walks and the only issue is that he's pulling on the lead.

Playing games with him indoors will give the OP a break, but I really don't see how that will teach him good lead manners?

Is it not evading the problem, rather than dealing with it?

If she really believes it's too much, then I agree that rehoming, through a reputable Agency, would be the best thing.

He can't stay indoors forever.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Obviously, it would not have been wise to walk Indie whilst she was recovering from major surgery.
> 
> Mabel was not ready for the outside World and, as you say, it may not have been the best idea to walk her, though I'm sure we do what we think is best and we all can look back with the benefit of hindsight sometimes and wish we had done it differently.
> 
> ...


The point I was making is that Indie didn't come to any harm from not being walked much for a whole year so I don't think the OP's dog will come to any harm either if she takes some time out to build on their relationship and work on their issues. The OP's post earlier today sounded like many others we read on here all the time, someone who is stressed, wondering if they have done the right thing, wondering if they can cope and looking for some reassurance. A few of us have suggested that taking time out from walking and working on the bond/relationship is perfectly fine. If it helps the dog to stay in its home and avoids him ending up in rescue then why not offer her some encouragement and support just as we do to many other members of the forum? Nobody is suggesting he stay indoors forever.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Boxers are a high energy breed though. And they're complete and utter PITAs most of their lives. I love the breed, but realistically they're not for everyone.


My mother and step-dad had boxers for years. One, Cassie, was a lifelong lead puller for everyone except my step-dad, who she was good as gold for. But it took a lot of training for him to get her to that point and he had her from a puppy


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MilleD said:


> My mother and step-dad had boxers for years. One, Cassie, was a lifelong lead puller for everyone except my step-dad, who she was good as gold for. But it took a lot of training for him to get her to that point and he had her from a puppy


I have two one walks like a dream but the other does pull. Normally when somewhere new. I have in the past when it was really difficult having them both on the lead rented a field for a fiver.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> I have two one walks like a dream but the other does pull. Normally when somewhere new. I have in the past when it was really difficult having them both on the lead rented a field for a fiver.


Lovely though aren't they? Cassie used to sit on your feet so she knew if you were trying to escape :Joyful


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

@Mirandashell just a random thought to make walks a little more enjoyable for the time being, I know this will cost but it will be a one off cost that hopefully helps...but what about a walking belt?

It will take the strain off your arms and shoulders, it gives you two hands to mark and reward without the risk of him buggering off and because a walking belt changes our center of balance (being pulled by your arms makes you top heavy, whereas a belt gives you chance to use your weight to your advantage)...not everyone gets on with them but I found mine invaluable when I first got Thai.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

If a walking belt will help I have a spare walking belt from Indi-Dog - never used it, still in the shipping bag. Depending on the size you'd need it might be suitable for you.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

That's really kind @ShibaPup


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

@ShibaPup That's really kind of you, thank you. It's certainly worth a try. I'll PM with details.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MilleD said:


> Lovely though aren't they? Cassie used to sit on your feet so she knew if you were trying to escape :Joyful


They are certainly the clowns of the dog world just super excited about everything.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> They are certainly the clowns of the dog world just super excited about everything.


I think he's not a cross-boxer then. He's pretty laid-back apart from when he's on a lead.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> They are certainly the clowns of the dog world just super excited about everything.


And they don't grow up - ever! 

There is nothing wrong with forgoing walks while a dog settles in to his new home. But it's not a long-term solution, and eventually the walks are going to have to happen, and as I said in my post above, a boxerXstaffy is not ever going to be a "relaxing" dog to walk. They're fun dogs, as Boxer123 says here, they love life and get ridiculous enjoyment out of everything, but they're high maintenance dogs. The dogs who will tolerate a typical boxerX are few and far between, all those interactions have to be scrupulously managed otherwise you very quickly end up with a dog aggressive dog.

All I'm saying is that walks are going to have to happen eventually, and there needs to be a plan in place for when they do.

If nothing can cost money, it's worth asking a rescue for help. Often rescues will have free or highly reduced cost training/behavior advice available in the interest of keeping dogs in their homes. It's worth investigating.
Even if @Mirandashell can't keep the dog, she can offer to foster the dog until a home shows up, and while fostering, again there will be training and behavior support that will not only help this dog, but what mirandashell learns from this will help other dogs who may come in to her life.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> The point I was making is that Indie didn't come to any harm from not being walked much for a whole year so I don't think the OP's dog will come to any harm either if she takes some time out to build on their relationship and work on their issues. The OP's post earlier today sounded like many others we read on here all the time, someone who is stressed, wondering if they have done the right thing, wondering if they can cope and looking for some reassurance. A few of us have suggested that taking time out from walking and working on the bond/relationship is perfectly fine. If it helps the dog to stay in its home and avoids him ending up in rescue then why not offer her some encouragement and support just as we do to many other members of the forum? Nobody is suggesting he stay indoors forever.


This ^^^^^^^ ten fold !

As I said yesterday, there are hundreds of dogs out there that never get walked, or ones that only go out once in a blue moon .... no it's not ideal, but life isn't always ideal!

When you yourself are stressed out and on the verge of giving up, I whole heartedly agree that it's best to take a step back and breathe. Dogs pick up on our anxiety which won't be helping either.

And lets be honest. George looks more staffie than anything to me. How many staffie crosses are there in rescue or being PTS every week because homes cannot be found.

Is he better off in a rescue confined to a cold kennel all day or living in a warm home feeling wanted. I know which one I would choose !


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

[Quote deleted by LinznMilly]

I do think sometimes personalities just clash and when that happens and people keep on locking horns and not seeing each others point of view it is better to just accept the differences and use the ignore button for both parties and for other people reading the thread. I know it makes me feel uncomfortable and although I don't like having people on ignore I do use it in this sort of situation. It would be a terrible shame if this thread gets locked and you lose a valuable place for support so I hope and pray that doesn't happen and people can respect your right to have someone on ignore even if they choose not to.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thank you RPH. This thread has really helped and I feel much better for the support.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Thing is, how is keeping him in actually helping the matter at hand regarding walking him? Next time you take him out he will probably far stronger and more determined just through the sheer joy of being out. Then you will be back to square one looking at rehoming/returning him, but having not achieved anything.

I also...and don't really want to cause any drama or anything, but get the distinct impression you don't want to try anything to taxing or long term with him. Correct me If I'm wrong but your previous boy was older wasn't he? So much more sedate and settled. George is just 2 years old. Will want long term input in training and further relationship building regardless of how calm you say he is. It's not going to be a case of keeping him in for a week or longer, building a super relationship & then trotting off down the road during your next attempt at a walk. Sorry to be so negative, but I personally don't feel it's very beneficial for him to be kept without long term commitment.

Keeping him in should not IMO be a long term solution just to avoid the problem. Good luck anyway. Hope Shibapups offer of her walking belt may be of benefit to you & George.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I have never said that it's a long-term solution. I have continually said that I know it isn't. What happened was I had a wobble, like a lot of new owners do. I am trying to do the best I can for this dog. I am not making any decisions lightly.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Personal and sniping comments are unnecessary and unproductive. Some posts have been edited and the thread will be closed if it continues.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

It's ok to have a wobble - I know I've had them with Lily! "Am I doing good enough", "someone else could do so much better with her", "I'm not good enough", "I'm not experienced enough", "I'm letting Lily down" but I air my worries - receive some reassurance from members on here, guidance on things I can do to improve things and put them into practice but most of all, Lily is happy and content.

Personally I'd be getting over whatever harness issues he has and practising capturing eye contact (rather than cued eye contact) and giving into harness pressure, all easily done indoors  Should help keep him entertained.
Honestly I've only really been focusing on those for a couple of days and the improvement is amazing already - she is paying more attention to me and she does get to the end of the lead but she stops and returns to me rather than trying harder to pull me.

Then when I post the walking belt on Monday you should have some practice in by the time it arrives so taking it outside should be easier for you.

All it takes is practice, patience and time


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks Shibapup. I've been working on the 'watch me' and the eye contact so that he gets used to checking in with me. I did have to take him out today as his old owners wanted to see him. He was on the full balance harness and he pulled a bit but it was managable. I'm going continue to practice in the hall.

We'll get there.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Closing this for now to go through
ETA - reopened


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thank you!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've started thinking ahead to teaching recall. I'm practising on the short lead in the house but I'm thinking of when I need to practise recall over a long distance. I'm looking at long leads as I don't like flexis. I've had my fingers burned on those before. Literally! Is there any video or info on the internet that shows you how to use a long-line properly?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

This thread has just been started

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/recall-training-with-a-long-line.461222/


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

How was your day yesterday @Mirandashell ?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> This thread has just been started
> 
> https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/recall-training-with-a-long-line.461222/


Oh nice one! I shall have look.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Westie Mum said:


> How was your day yesterday @Mirandashell ?


It was better! We've done quite a bit of brain-training with treats in boxes and scent-games. We've done 'watch me' and short-lead walking and some impulse control. We've also had a nice cuddle on the bed at night where I stroke him and talk to him as we fall asleep. I quite often wake up with his head on my waist where it dips between ribs and hip! He's learning that 'show me' means take me to the thing you want me to do so that's working.

I'm starting to make plans for when we do go back out. Shibapup's waist lead will be great for the short-lead training. And I will be saving up for a long lead and seeing if his old owners will chip in for one. They've got family stuff going on at the moment so it's difficult to broach the subject. Ray has been told that his mom's pancreatic cancer is untreatable so....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> It was better! We've done quite a bit of brain-training with treats in boxes and scent-games. We've done 'watch me' and short-lead walking and some impulse control. We've also had a nice cuddle on the bed at night where I stroke him and talk to him as we fall asleep. I quite often wake up with his head on my waist where it dips between ribs and hip! He's learning that 'show me' means take me to the thing you want me to do so that's working.
> 
> I'm starting to make plans for when we do go back out. Shibapup's waist lead will be great for the short-lead training. And I will be saving up for a long lead and seeing if his old owners will chip in for one. They've got family stuff going on at the moment so it's difficult to broach the subject. Ray has been told that his mom's pancreatic cancer is untreatable so....


Liked for your good day not the old owners sad news. What sort of long lead are you looking for?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm thinking something fairly easy to clean after he's dragged it through poo and mud and is unlikely to burn my hands. Although I have seen the tip about gloves. My eventual goal is to have him off-lead in safe areas but we are nowhere near that yet.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Have a look at Biothane. Not cheap, but well worth saving up for. Maybe something to pop on your Christmas list?

https://indi-dog.co.uk/lightweight-training-lead-biothane-long-line-small


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ah! Thank you. £20 quid should be doable by Christmas.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Zooplus do long lines - http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/long_leads_safety

Some are super cheap - I have the £14.99 Heim super grip tracking line, works well for us


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The fluorescent yellow one looks good. I tried reflective stickers on his harness but they all fell off on the first walk!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> It was better! We've done quite a bit of brain-training with treats in boxes and scent-games. We've done 'watch me' and short-lead walking and some impulse control. We've also had a nice cuddle on the bed at night where I stroke him and talk to him as we fall asleep. I quite often wake up with his head on my waist where it dips between ribs and hip! He's learning that 'show me' means take me to the thing you want me to do so that's working.
> 
> I'm starting to make plans for when we do go back out. Shibapup's waist lead will be great for the short-lead training. And I will be saving up for a long lead and seeing if his old owners will chip in for one. They've got family stuff going on at the moment so it's difficult to broach the subject. Ray has been told that his mom's pancreatic cancer is untreatable so....


Sounds like a positive day 

Sad news about previous owners Mum. We were told 2 months ago that OH's Mum's lung cancer was back and there was nothing more they could do (she was later offered immunotherapy which she is now having so we are praying it helps!). It's the worst experience I've ever had, sitting in that room, hearing those words ..... so yes, completely understand they won't be too interested in dog things right now, there heads will be all over the place 

I'd offer to send you our long line lead as we rarely use it, but I haven't seen it in ages. If I find it any time soon, I'll let you know!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That would be fantastic! 

Yeah, I feel bad about thinking of talking to them about dog stuff at the minute. They are at the hospital today to arrange getting her back to her home. Co-incidentally enough I worked there for a while as an admin so I know his Mom. She's a nice lady so I was sad to hear the news. Hopefully it won't be too bad for her or them.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

We are sat together on the sofa watching Robot Wars and he's doing the thing where he moves his head from side to side..... it is so cute, I have a nerd dog!


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2017)

So happy you are feeling better today I had some horrible days when mine was younger and still do sometimes.
Im not surprised you felt overwhelmed with young and untrained staffyx and fingers crossed it will get easier.
The good news are you wont need gym/diet etc trust George to keep you in good shape..


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Thank you! He's more of a mental challenge at the minute, thinking of things for him to do!


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2017)

hide treats in the house and you can easily make a cheap and cheerful flirt pole you got instructions on youtube its exellent tool to release energy and play.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I never thought of a flirt pole! Nice one.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Thank you! He's more of a mental challenge at the minute, thinking of things for him to do!


If you're on Facebook, have a look at this site. They have some weird rules, like you're not allowed to ask for ideas, but there's some great things on there

https://m.facebook.com/groups/137561280156280


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That looks amazing! I shall have a good mooch through that tomorrow. Thank you for all your help, MIffy. I really appreciate it.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> That looks amazing! I shall have a good mooch through that tomorrow. Thank you for all your help, MIffy. I really appreciate it.


When I first got Dex, I knew nothing of behaviourists or this forum. I felt incredibly alone, useless and helpless. Just one suggestion from a stranger gave me so much hope that there could be light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

It makes a heck of a difference. For all the occasional rows and hurt feelings, it's a great place for advice. I think everyone sometimes wonders if they are doing it right, even experienced owners. Every dog is different and it's so good to know you have backup.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ok, had a bit of progress today. I've been teaching George some door manners. Mainly by capturing the good behaviour. As part of his short-leash training I've been walking him up and down the hall with him at my side. We do this a couple of times a day. As an extension of this, I led him to the door and asked for a Wait. I then put the key in the door and if he pulled forward, I stopped and turned and walked him away. Then rinse and repeat. This worked pretty well unti he told me he'd had enough. So as a reward, we went out on his short lead and had a short walk. He began to pull so we came back, did a bit more hall work until he'd calmed down and then went back out. Rinse and repeat. 

He is getting the idea slowly so I'm hoping that the mix of the door work and the short-lead will really help. Once we've got that sorted, I can start working on the long-lead stuff. 

Does this sound like I'm doing right?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Ok, had a bit of progress today. I've been teaching George some door manners. Mainly by capturing the good behaviour. As part of his short-leash training I've been walking him up and down the hall with him at my side. We do this a couple of times a day. As an extension of this, I led him to the door and asked for a Wait. I then put the key in the door and if he pulled forward, I stopped and turned and walked him away. Then rinse and repeat. This worked pretty well unti he told me he'd had enough. So as a reward, we went out on his short lead and had a short walk. He began to pull so we came back, did a bit more hall work until he'd calmed down and then went back out. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> He is getting the idea slowly so I'm hoping that the mix of the door work and the short-lead will really help. Once we've got that sorted, I can start working on the long-lead stuff.
> 
> Does this sound like I'm doing right?


Spot on! Basically, you do what I want and you get what you want. Piss around and we go home


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Good!

I think @Westie Mum was right when she said I went too far too quickly. I've slowed up on the training and I'm trying to reinforce it a lot more than I did.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

As I tell my OH, I'm always right  lol certainly sounds like you are both doing well.

@Mirandashell I asked OH to check in the car this morning for our long lead as definitely not in the house. He said it's not in the car either but remembers the catch went all rusty with sea water from a beach holiday so thinks we may have thrown it out after we brought Oscar the 10m Flexi lead instead.

Sorry x


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh well! Thank you for the thought. I shall save up for one. Or see if I can talk my Dad into buying it!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Good!
> 
> I think @Westie Mum was right when she said I went too far too quickly. I've slowed up on the training and I'm trying to reinforce it a lot more than I did.


I do that all the time! I get really frustrated with myself, because I rush them and have to start all over again.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> As I tell my OH, I'm always right  lol certainly sounds like you are both doing well.
> 
> @Mirandashell I asked OH to check in the car this morning for our long lead as definitely not in the house. He said it's not in the car either but remembers the catch went all rusty with sea water from a beach holiday so thinks we may have thrown it out after we brought Oscar the 10m Flexi lead instead.
> 
> Sorry x


I think I may have a spare, but need to do some digging around. @Mirandashell I'll check when we get home and can pop it in the post tomorrow if I find it


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I know! I'm annoyed with myself as well. But I just keeping thinking 'Patience and it will be worth it.' Got to take my own advice now and again!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> I think I may have a spare, but need to do some digging around. @Mirandashell I'll check when we get home and can pop it in the post tomorrow if I find it


 Oh that would be great! Let me know and we can sort out details and postage. Thank you!


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2017)

mine was stollen! 15m pink 1 from amazon I actually thought ill send it to you as need shorter one anyway . Si washed it the other night, hang it of window it fell and was gone in the morning! wonder what my pink lead is doing now.. and hope I never cleaned it too well.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Good lord, some people will nick anything!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

He's now watching the Minions. I think his favourite is Bob.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Aww, you really do have a nerdy little partner in crime


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> If you're on Facebook, have a look at this site. They have some weird rules, like you're not allowed to ask for ideas, but there's some great things on there
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/137561280156280


Had a look through and there's some great ideas in there. Things that cost nothing. Like the treats rolled in a towel. And the snuffle box with shredded paper. Never occured to me!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Had a look through and there's some great ideas in there. Things that cost nothing. Like the treats rolled in a towel. And the snuffle box with shredded paper. Never occured to me!


It's annoying how obvious some things are, but you never think of them until someone tells you


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Just tried a couple with George and his idea of problem solving is to grab it in the middle and throw it in the air! Yeh! Sigh.... my living room carpet is now covered in shredded paper. I may need to rethink that one.....


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Just tried a couple with George and his idea of problem solving is to grab it in the middle and throw it in the air! Yeh! Sigh.... my living room carpet is now covered in shredded paper. I may need to rethink that one.....


:Hilarious


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Found a new enrichment! I have a bone shaped Kong that can be filled down the centre. I fill this and then tuck inside a toilet roll tube. He is meant to pull the Kong out of the tube. But nah.... this is George. He just rips the tube open!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Weirdest thing just happened. Was watching Big Bang Theory and got to the scene with the baby monitor. George was lying next to me and he sat up and started to growl! A proper growl as well. So I turned the volume off, thinking it was the baby monitor. Still growled. I turned the channel over. Still growled. Still staring at the TV. So I turned it off. Still growling at it. He must able to hear someone I can't. The neighbours maybe?


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Weirdest thing just happened. Was watching Big Bang Theory and got to the scene with the baby monitor. George was lying next to me and he sat up and started to growl! A proper growl as well. So I turned the volume off, thinking it was the baby monitor. Still growled. I turned the channel over. Still growled. Still staring at the TV. So I turned it off. Still growling at it. He must able to hear someone I can't. The neighbours maybe?


Mine can hear a cat fart 2 miles away I swear 

He might just have been dreaming and woke up a bit odd. Leasts it just growling, I was sat watching the tv last night and Poppy sat bolt up right and started sleep howling .... it's very spooky when she does that !


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Now he's being really weird... he's acting like he's scared to be in the room. I took him into the bedroom to show him the street and he was fine. But now he is prowling with his belly low and staring at the TV.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Now he's being really weird... he's acting like he's scared to be in the room. I took him into the bedroom to show him the street and he was fine. But now he is prowling with his belly low and staring at the TV.


Poor little guy. Is the tv off?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> Poor little guy. Is the tv off?


I turned it off and we went to bed just after I posted. He calmed down then and went to sleep after about 20 minutes. He seems ok this morning but I haven't had the TV on yet. I really really hope he isn't scared of the TV.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

BTW, he just had his first zoomie!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And now he is growling at Mastermind! Very weird. I've turned the sound off but he's still growling.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> And now he is growling at Mastermind! Very weird. I've turned the sound off but he's still growling.


I wonder if there's maybe a high pitched hum that you can't hear


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## planete (Jan 21, 2012)

Re. the TV. When you turn it off do you also switch the wall plug off or pull the electric plug out? If you do not the set stays on stand-by and could still be making a noise audible only to the dog.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I did think of that but he only growls when it's on. I think it might be bells and bleeps. He growled at BBT when Bernadette rang the bell and at Mastermind when the bleeper went off. So maybe the sound bar is emitting a high-pitched noise that I can't hear then. It just looks really weird cos it's fear agression to the TV. Never seen that before. He normally loves it. He's watching the rugby at the minute.


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

Could it be some electric high pitch from the TV that he's hearing?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

It could well be. It must be something I can't hear. I shall take especial notice the next time it happens.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Well, it's getting better. He's still growling at odd moments but he's stopped prowling. Now he stays next to me on the sofa. I think he's working out that the noise, although unpleasant, is not dangerous. So hopefully the growling will stop at some point.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I was watching Netflix earlier and Casting it to my TV. When the programme stops it automatically starts showing photos. 

At the moment it's a photo of two baby deer. George is staring up at the screen like he knows what they are. And he just looked at me with a puzzled look. Maybe he's wondering why they aren't running!


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