# Bonnie is pregnant :(



## belleboris

hello all , I know this is in cat chat and now the breeding section but I'm not a breeder and most on this bit have seen my posted from getting aspen to getting Bonnie.
She went for her spay this morning and they found out she's pregnant  
I've had her two weeks and she's between 5/6 weeks pregnant .
Her history is that she's miscaried both times she's been pregnant before with the breeder I got her from .
I've spoken to the vets when I picked her up and they have said to keep her nice and calm and wait and see . I've had a chat about her care and what to expect in both circumstances.
Not happy I feel so sad for her poor baby will need to deal with this and then another anaesthetic when the time comes .
I'm going to be on edge for the next 3-4 weeks now


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## carly87

Why on earth didn't the breeder sell her to you already spayed! What type of cat is she?


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## Pear

carly87 said:


> Why on earth didn't the breeder sell her to you already spayed! What type of cat is she?


If I remember correctly Bonnie is a tri coloured Sphynx.


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## Susan M

carly87 said:


> Why on earth didn't the breeder sell her to you already spayed! What type of cat is she?


I wondered the same, I hope the breeder is going to get some severe words!

Wishing you and Bonnie all the best for the next few weeks, what will be will be.


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## lymorelynn

How could a breeder let her go unspayed? The breeder must have been aware that there was a possibility that she was pregnant too. I am lost for words to be honest!
Having had a girl who was unable to carry a litter to full term my first reaction, after our final attempt, was to have her spayed.
I'm sorry that you are now having to face this @belleboris and can only hope that all goes well with Bonnie in this pregnancy. Will you let her breeder know?


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## moggie14

I assume the breeder told you she wasn't spayed which is why you had her booked in, however I am disgusted that the breeder has allowed her to get pregnant again after 2 miscarriages and presumably no intention of carrying on breeding from her hence she was sold to you as a pet? 
No idea who the breeder is but IMHO they are bloody irresponsible and couldn't have cared less about poor Bonnie. Thank god she now has you xx


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## ALR

belleboris said:


> hello all , I know this is in cat chat and now the breeding section but I'm not a breeder and most on this bit have seen my posted from getting aspen to getting Bonnie.
> She went for her spay this morning and they found out she's pregnant
> I've had her two weeks and she's between 5/6 weeks pregnant .
> Her history is that she's miscaried both times she's been pregnant before with the breeder I got her from .
> I've spoken to the vets when I picked her up and they have said to keep her nice and calm and wait and see . I've had a chat about her care and what to expect in both circumstances.
> Not happy I feel so sad for her poor baby will need to deal with this and then another anaesthetic when the time comes .
> I'm going to be on edge for the next 3-4 weeks now


Does this mean Bonnie will carry the kittens to term? Poor Bonnie, she has to go through this again.


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## belleboris

She was sold to me as a pet yes , I have no interest in breeding at all .
She would have been done today if I wasn't in a dead zone on my phone service trying to not think about her under anathisia  ( went grosery shopping ) 
The vets had her under already and couldn't get hold of me so had to wake her up and microchip her for me .
Is there anyway I can now help them ? Am I just waiting for the brood to die and hope my girl is ok ? I had no idea that cats could have a hard time near the end .
Spoke to the vets about signs of struggling and when to bring her in and one that bread Devon Rex have said call up and ask for info anytime  feel helpless it's not nice at all


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## QOTN

Have you managed to find out how far into the pregnancies she miscarried? Did she have dead kittens or just bits? I think if she has kittens that don't survive late in the pregnancy, she could be quite disturbed and need lots of special attention to help her get over it. If she manages to carry them to term fingers crossed they are viable.


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## ALR

QOTN said:


> Have you managed to find out how far into the pregnancies she miscarried? Did she have dead kittens or just bits? I think if she has kittens that don't survive late in the pregnancy, she could be quite disturbed and need lots of special attention to help her get over it. If she manages to carry them to term fingers crossed they are viable.


I'm really hoping she can carry them to term and both mum and babies are healthy. It would be worth contacting the breeder to ask for more details and if there are any vet notes on her, they could get these printed and send them in the post to you.


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## belleboris

I'm not sure what to do re contacting the breeders , what if they want her or the kittens back as they have the male ? I'm not sure how it all works and the law for this type of thing . 
They didn't say and I didn't ask I just asked if they found out why incase she needed meds for it or more investigating .
She's 5/6 weeks now and they are alive up to today , but the anathisia will have put a risky situation even worse , I want to cry


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I'm not sure what to do re contacting the breeders , what if they want her or the kittens back as they have the male ? I'm not sure how it all works and the law for this type of thing .
> They didn't say and I didn't ask I just asked if they found out why incase she needed meds for it or more investigating .
> She's 5/6 weeks now and they are alive up to today , but the anathisia will have put a risky situation even worse , I want to cry


There is no reason for them to take her back. She has been rehomed to you. If they do not provide you with any information ask your vet to contact the vet practice where she had her last vaccination and have her notes sent over. Then they and you may be a little better prepared.


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## Susan M

I'd contact the breeder, I'd be absolutely livid and I think they ought to know. She's your cat now they can't just demand her back, they should have been more careful and spayed her before she was rehomed, I have a retired Queen myself there's no way she'd have been come to me unspayed.


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## moggie14

Oh hun, don't get upset - hopefully all will be ok. You definitely need to contact the breeder, check who the Dad is (did she get out??) and inform them of the situation and that you are not happy at all about all of this. Who knows, perhaps the breeder was already aware. Check your contract if you are worried, I doubt there is anything in there that means the breeder can demand to have Bonnie back.
Keep checking in on the forum - there are so many knowledgeable peeps on here and the rest of us for morale support. XXX


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## Catharinem

Poor baby, just try to keep her quiet, and cross your fingers. You say your vet microchipped her, so it would be very difficult for the breeder to try to claim her back as she is now identified as belonging to you by her chip. Did any paperwork come with her? Send off any change of ownership papers to GCCF straight away if you have them ( ask for them before reporting the pregnancy if she still has them), as the breeder of a litter is the registered owner of the dam (mother cat) at the time the kittens are born, so she would have no claim on them if the mother is registered to you. Of course if the kittens were born alive, and survived to rehoming age ( which is by no means certain), you wouldn't be able to register them without her providing a mating certificate which she might want to charge for, but cross that bridge if you come to it.


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## QOTN

Catharinem said:


> Poor baby, just try to keep her quiet, and cross your fingers. You say your vet microchipped her, so it would be very difficult for the breeder to try to claim her back as she is now identified as belonging to you by her chip. Did any paperwork come with her? Send off any change of ownership papers to GCCF straight away if you have them ( ask for them before reporting the pregnancy if she still has them), as the breeder of a litter is the registered owner of the dam (mother cat) at the time the kittens are born, so she would have no claim on them if the mother is registered to you. Of course if the kittens were born alive, and survived to rehoming age ( which is by no means certain), you wouldn't be able to register them without her providing a mating certificate which she might want to charge for, but cross that bridge if you come to it.


I am sure that GCCF paperwork is the last thing on Belleboris's mind at the moment.


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## belleboris

No contract and no paperwork was given , I have all the pms that say she's mine and after texts as I was letting them know she was ok and settled in at my house if that can prove she's mine . 
I will phone them up and ask about the miscarriages and hope I get some info . 
The people were very nice when I visited them .
I'll buy more beds and hidy places for her and aspen also, they have a tone allready but anything to make her more at ease , 
I'm praying they were earler in her pregnancy now and it's luck or that she got out and a random Tom has got to her and it's a different situation or something ...


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## chloe1975

What a sad situation for you and Bonnie to be in. I can't understand why someone would let a queen go unspayed especially in those circumstances. Having said that I have seen a few breeders in the past advertise ex queens and say that new owners will need to have the spay themselves  It seems a bit odd though that she would have let her go if there was a possibility she was pregnant. Its a shame that you don't know more about the loss of the previous litters but I can understand your hesitation about contacting the breeder. I have been fortunate never to have had a cat miscarry although have been through the pain of a premature litter  But there can be many factors involved including infection or even incompatibility with the stud. 

Fingers crossed that everything goes ok, its going to be an anxious few weeks but there is lots of advice here and people who can help if you need it. xx


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## Tigermoon

My heart goes out to you @belleboris what a shock! I can't believe that any breeder with any sense of decency would rehome a cat unneutered.

Someone else mentioned getting your vet to contact the breeders vet in order to get the queens notes. I think that is a great idea as then your vet will be aware of any previous issues she had and there may be details of the previous litters.

Regarding contact the breeder I'm in two minds, they obviously didn't care enough about her when they passed her on to you but then again they will have vital information that now you really need to know, such as when the previous litters were lost, how it manifested etc. I don't think they can claim the cat back though as they sold her to you, therefore title transferred from them to you and the point money changed hands.


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## Catharinem

QOTN said:


> I am sure that GCCF paperwork is the last thing on Belleboris's mind at the moment.


My reply was in context, OP was concerned the breeder may want queen or kittens back again. And to be honest, they do sound the kind of person who is in it for money rather than love of the cat/breed, so might well be tempted by £££ if by some miracle the kittens are viable this time. OP having ownership of the cat registered with the GCCF and being recorded as the breeder of the kittens ( as registered owner of mother at time of birth) prevents this happening. Obviously her first concern is welfare of her cat, but I was responding to a particular concern she raised.



belleboris said:


> I'm not sure what to do re contacting the breeders , what if they want her or the kittens back as they have the male ? I'm not sure how it all works and the law for this type of thing .
> They didn't say and I didn't ask I just asked if they found out why incase she needed meds for it or more investigating .
> She's 5/6 weeks now and they are alive up to today , but the anathisia will have put a risky situation even worse , I want to cry





Catharinem said:


> Poor baby, just try to keep her quiet, and cross your fingers. You say your vet microchipped her, so it would be very difficult for the breeder to try to claim her back as she is now identified as belonging to you by her chip. Did any paperwork come with her? Send off any change of ownership papers to GCCF straight away if you have them ( ask for them before reporting the pregnancy if she still has them), as the breeder of a litter is the registered owner of the dam (mother cat) at the time the kittens are born, so she would have no claim on them if the mother is registered to you. Of course if the kittens were born alive, and survived to rehoming age ( which is by no means certain), you wouldn't be able to register them without her providing a mating certificate which she might want to charge for, but cross that bridge if you come to it.


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## QOTN

Catharinem said:


> My reply was in context, OP was concerned the breeder may want queen or kittens back again. And to be honest, they do sound the kind of person who is in it for money rather than love of the cat/breed, so might well be tempted by £££ if by some miracle the kittens are viable this time. OP having ownership of the cat registered with the GCCF and being recorded as the breeder of the kittens ( as registered owner of mother at time of birth) prevents this happening. Obviously her first concern is welfare of her cat, but I was responding to a particular concern she raised.


Belleboris was concerned about any legal aspects. The GCCF has no legal status. We all 'own' hundreds of registered cats because new owners have never transferred ownership. I can assure you it is *very* difficult to repossess a cat since I have tried unsuccessfully.


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## spotty cats

Perhaps a lesson on why it isn't wise to rush into buying a new cat, hopefully anyone else coming across this thread and considering a retired cat will see no decent breeder rehomes a retiree without spaying first. 

I hope she's been HCM scanned too.

Hopefully the breeders will be honest about her previous miscarriages, fingers crossed she holds on this time.


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## JaimeandBree

Oh no, what a shock for you! 

I agree with what others have said about the breeder but the situation can't be undone so there's little point in going over the hows and whys right now, instead focus on Bonnie and what is right for her in the current situation, which I know you will be doing, and everyone is here to support you xx


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## Catharinem

QOTN said:


> Belleboris was concerned about any legal aspects. The GCCF has no legal status. We all 'own' hundreds of registered cats because new owners have never transferred ownership. I can assure you it is *very* difficult to repossess a cat since I have tried unsuccessfully.


Microchip is the most useful in proving ownership of the actual cat, so good she was done in OP's name. The breeder has already homed her queen, only reason to attempt to get her and any kittens back would be to make money on their sale as pedigrees. If queen in OP's name, original breeder can't register the kittens, making them worthless and not worth the effort, which saves OP a battle even if she'd probably win anyway.
There's a thread over in dog chat at the moment about breeders helping rehome dogs which they bred versus having the authority to take back a puppy or dog they don't think is being properly cared for. As you say, seems the owner has most of the rights once the animal has left the breeder's premises, though usually breeders and owners have a good ongoing relationship.


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## carly87

Is the breeder even registered?

Where are you based? If you're anywhere near me and need some help, I don't mind stepping in.


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## belleboris

I'm not sure , and I'm in Cheshire sk8 area


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## Catharinem

carly87 said:


> Is the breeder even registered?
> 
> Where are you based? If you're anywhere near me and need some help, I don't mind stepping in.


Oh Lord, didn't even occur to me breeder not registered, just too damn trusting. Which raises the issue of whether she has any pedigrees at all for the parents, or if she just got any unregistered male and female which might be related or possibly even brother and sister, surely not?


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## OrientalSlave

Breeders don't have to have a prefix, all the gccf registers them as is as the owner of a prefix. Such breeders register their kittens using an administrative prefix


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## Susan M

OP has no papers for Bonnie which suggests to me she isn't registered. 
The person doesn't sound like a breeder at all.


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## blade100

Susan M said:


> OP has no papers for Bonnie which suggests to me she isn't registered.
> The person doesn't sound like a breeder at all.


Not a responsible one! :Banghead 
Poor girl


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## Cookieandme

belleboris said:


> I'm not sure , and I'm in Cheshire sk8 area


Please tell me she wasn't bought from Worsley, Manchester


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## carly87

Research tells me breeder is not registered. Likely the girl won't have been HCM scanned either. I don't know why people continue to buy or rehome from unscrupulous people like this! Really feel for the OP as it's a really crappy situation to be in.


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## Pear

I appreciate that everyone is disgusted by this situation myself included.

HOWEVER does anyone have and practical useful advice for the OP as I think that is what she was looking for being uninterested and inexperienced with pregnancy/breeding of felines etc.


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## Cookieandme

Pear said:


> I appreciate that everyone is disgusted by this situation myself included.
> 
> HOWEVER does anyone have and practical useful advice for the OP as I think that is what she was looking for being uninterested and inexperienced with pregnancy/breeding of felines etc.


Based on the cats history, I would have opted for a termination but realise not everyone will agree.


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## chloe1975

Pear said:


> I appreciate that everyone is disgusted by this situation myself included.
> 
> HOWEVER does anyone have and practical useful advice for the OP as I think that is what she was looking for being uninterested and inexperienced with pregnancy/breeding of felines etc.


I agree with this, however the situation happened its done now and not much that can be done for now. 
@belleboris the priority will be to keep her safe and as unstressed as possible. The fact that she has moved home and had an anaesthetic isn't the best start but what's done is done. She is in a much better situation now with you than she was before. If she is 5-6 weeks gone you can expect to feel the kittens move within the next week or two and she should be getting noticeable larger. Make sure she is fed on a good quality diet and feed her as much as she likes. There are some good quality brands available on Zooplus but also wet foods such as hilife and butchers have a high meat content. I tend to give my girls kitten food in the weeks leading up to birth too. I would provide plenty of warm cosy spots that she might chose for giving birth but from experience I always let my girls chose where they want rather than me trying to chose for them, it makes for a happy mummy cat and ensures a less stressful birth. Invariably my girls chose someone's bed to give birth on, although I did have one girl give birth on my lap once!


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## loroll1991

I too, am disgusted that the breeder sold this girl not spayed and pregnant (as well as not being registered etc. etc.) but as you can imagine OP is going through a *very *bad time when she was (rightfully) taking Bonnie to get spayed yesterday, and clearly already knows this is isn't a good situation. I just feel that we should be offering practical advice and support (unfortunately, I have no experience with breeding at all - so cannot) as I can only imagine how upsetting this is. @belleboris has given Bonnie a new home and she is in much better hands than she was in before, so I feel this is a very good thing. xx


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## belleboris

She's actually in a wicker draw set ! I removed one top draw and put her snuggle blankets in there for her and she's super happy and cosy , each time I go past I say hi and give her a pet , it's nice to hear her loud puring , 
If I wasn't in a dead zone yesterday while she was under I would have asked them to continue , sorry if people think it's wrong but it was a desision to get another cat now I face owning loads of cats ( I love my girls but the reality of paying out insurance and vets bills for another few cats is scary two is manageable ) 
So far she still looks fat after her ordeal yesterday and no blood so hopefully there still ok .

As this is happening I'm going to order all the bits and bobs I need today and another heat pad . 

Also would it be to stressful to get someone to come round and do a scan on her ? Just so I know how many ? I'll panic if she only had one or two thinking there is more inside


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## Pear

I think the lack of papers is presumption rather then fact the OP hasn't confirmed either way only that she isn't in possession of them.

I have re homed three older pedigree animals aged two upwards all registered for what little it meant to me two were breed from.

When I re homed Moth I was given his medical paperwork, a book with vaccination history his original vet practice, neuter infomation and the micro chip paperwork to transfer his details.
His old people said I couldn't have his 'paperwork' as he was to be a pet and the price reflected that, pedigree and paperwork is of little importance to me i just wanted him to have a nice life.A pedigree cat who has been in 3 homes and isn't yet 2!!! - I am home number 4.
- I know lots of moggies who have had nicer lives. 

So my point is the lack of papers is neither here nor there in a pet home.

The issue is the lack of neuter prior to re homing. I have helped re homed a pedigree stud dog who was uncastrated but wasn't allowed home with my mum until he had the operation and then two weeks to recover. Which is why there is lots of questions about Bonnie and her circumstances all of which are unknown but with a foundation which is extremly irisponsible on the breeders part.

I am getting off point I know nothing about kittens,birthing etc so can't be helpful.

This whole situation stinks i just don't think this thread is 'helpful' or kind to be perfectly honest for the OP.

Sounds to me that Bonnie is a lucky girl to end up with the OP who is going to care for her properly.


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## OrientalSlave

carly87 said:


> Research tells me breeder is not registered. Likely the girl won't have been HCM scanned either. I don't know why people continue to buy or rehome from unscrupulous people like this! Really feel for the OP as it's a really crappy situation to be in.


I say again, GCCF breeders are not registered. Prefixes are, along with their owner, but it's not necessary to have a prefix to register a kitten.


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> She's actually in a wicker draw set ! I removed one top draw and put her snuggle blankets in there for her and she's super happy and cosy , each time I go past I say hi and give her a pet , it's nice to hear her loud puring ,
> If I wasn't in a dead zone yesterday while she was under I would have asked them to continue , sorry if people think it's wrong but it was a desision to get another cat now I face owning loads of cats ( I love my girls but the reality of paying out insurance and vets bills for another few cats is scary two is manageable )
> So far she still looks fat after her ordeal yesterday and no blood so hopefully there still ok .
> 
> As this is happening I'm going to order all the bits and bobs I need today and another heat pad .
> 
> Also would it be to stressful to get someone to come round and do a scan on her ? Just so I know how many ? I'll panic if she only had one or two thinking there is more inside


A scan is notoriously unreliable at predicting the size of a litter. I can remember being shown a scan of one of my girls just days before she gave birth and the vet, who I hold in high regard otherwise, told me confidently he could see two live kittens. The girl had just the one!

I have never had a girl miscarry but I have heard plenty of horror stories from other people who have. Depending on the circumstances, the events can be harrowing for both cat and owner. This is why I repeated that I think it important to contact the previous owner in an attempt to discover when the other two litters were lost. There is no need for recrimination. We often have to bite our tongues as a means to an end and 'having a go' would simply alienate them.

Frankly, they sound the sort of people who would have definitely put poor Bonnie through another pregnancy if they thought there was even a slight chance she could carry the kittens to term so it is crucial to be aware of the signs to look for in case she has a complete disaster. This is why I would have risked another anaesthetic if she were mine.


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## lorilu

Take her back to the vet and have her spayed. Now, before it's too late.


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## carly87

Pear, I've contacted the OP privately and have given lots of advice, as I think others have.

I don't know why people say that they won't give papers as it's a pet home and the price reflects that. If a person buys a kitten from me as a pet, it goes with pedigree paperwork, because that, outside of my ethics etc, is what distinguishes me from a BYB. I don't see why this becomes unimportant when the cat is older or an ex breeder. In fact, when I've rehomed breeding girls, they all go with their paperwork same as kittens. The only reason not to provide this if you're a genuine person is because you fear the new owner might sell the cat on and would get more if they had the pedigree papers, but in such circumstances, I simply wouldn't rehome to them.

Cat appears to be at least 7 weeks pregnant as the OP can apparently feel kicking/bubbles. In most cases, I would agree that a spay is the way to go, but I doubt many vets would do it at this age, and if they're kicking, they're at least still viable at this point.

As QOTN has said though, I'd be contacting the last vet or the breeder to find out when she lost her last 2 litters. If it was late in the pregnancy, I'd risk a second anaesthetic for her, as both you and she will be traumatised much more by her attempting to birth them than you will by her having a spay.

Really hope all goes well, and do remember where I am if you need anything else.


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## QOTN

My vet and I discuss all sorts of cat issues because we both wish to learn as much as possible. In the past I have asked him about spaying in late pregnancy and he said he will do it if the circumstances warrant it. He said the girl was not at any increased risk because they are monitored all the time as in any operation.


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## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> <snip>
> She's 5/6 weeks now
> <snip>


Where did that figure come from? Vets are not very good at estimating pregnancy without a known date of mating.


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## OrientalSlave

Personally I don't think there is any point to contacting the previous owner as I doubt you will get an entirely truthful reply. 

If the OP doesn't want her to go back to the vets for spaying then she has to keep a good eye on her as infection might be the cause of the previous miscarriages - assuming the original owner wasn't lying about those! If she shows any untoward signs then it's a PDQ visit to the vet.

As the OP can apparently feel kicking and so on she should deliver in the next couple of weeks, so not too long to wait.


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## Pear

That's very nice to know Carly87 as from what I have read you have a wealth of experience.

It's just nice for this thread to reflect some of that guidance,experience.

I am not sure if your all aware but If you randomly search things in Google our threads appear in response so it's nice if anyone else heaven forbids ends up in this situation again there is useful advice mixed in with the sea of agreed disgust.

I agree it seems like a odd thing also as they have little use for such paperwork an it Is no form of protection. I haven't found that an animal is valued more because it's a papered pedigree, people re home animals who are neutered/castrated and aged 5-8 years because they want to do something 'good or kind' when welcoming a new animal into their home and have fallen in love with a photo. However i have found it to be common place.

My Moth Cat is the same age as Bonnie.
The difference being he came to me castrated but from what I can tell this happened as a young kitten in home number 2.



carly87 said:


> Pear, I've contacted the OP privately and have given lots of advice, as I think others have.
> 
> I don't know why people say that they won't give papers as it's a pet home and the price reflects that. If a person buys a kitten from me as a pet, it goes with pedigree paperwork, because that, outside of my ethics etc, is what distinguishes me from a BYB. I don't see why this becomes unimportant when the cat is older or an ex breeder. In fact, when I've rehomed breeding girls, they all go with their paperwork same as kittens. The only reason not to provide this if you're a genuine person is because you fear the new owner might sell the cat on and would get more if they had the pedigree papers, but in such circumstances, I simply wouldn't rehome to them.
> 
> Cat appears to be at least 7 weeks pregnant as the OP can apparently feel kicking/bubbles. In most cases, I would agree that a spay is the way to go, but I doubt many vets would do it at this age, and if they're kicking, they're at least still viable at this point.
> 
> As QOTN has said though, I'd be contacting the last vet or the breeder to find out when she lost her last 2 litters. If it was late in the pregnancy, I'd risk a second anaesthetic for her, as both you and she will be traumatised much more by her attempting to birth them than you will by her having a spay.
> 
> Really hope all goes well, and do remember where I am if you need anything else.


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## belleboris

The 5/6 came from the vets when she was under , so I'm going of that at first but having her in my pjs last night and feeling I can feel movement/bubbling . I've only had her two weeks and she had a pot belly and is naked so presumed she should have a bit of a belly .
My vets didn't give the option of another spay just advised me on how soon she could have one if she lost them or if she manages to have them .


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## Pear

Is Bonnie okay in herself after the vet trip? 

Moth also sleeps inside my night clothes.


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## belleboris

She's acting normal eating well , sleeping in her spot . 
I've started to add kitten food to her normal dry food ( she will only have dry ) and she eats a tone of food


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## Tigermoon

Pear said:


> HOWEVER does anyone have and practical useful advice for the OP as I think that is what she was looking for being uninterested and inexperienced with pregnancy/breeding of felines etc.


Unfortunately I think the only real advise we can offer at this stage is to ensure the cat is eating a good quality diet, ensure she has quiet places she can give birth in, and to watch her like a hawk. If, as the previous owner stated, the queen has suffered two miscarriages then the OP could be in for a very difficult time ahead and there is no real way anyone can prepare themselves for that sort of emotional challenge.

It is a very difficult position Belleboris has been put in, and sadly this is not the first time I've heard of such a thing happening


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## Paddypaws

Belleboris, I am so sorry that this has all turned into such a stressful situation.
I am hoping and praying that she does manage to hold on to the babies and gives birth to a healthy litter.
Once the kittens are here they will bring untold joy and I am sure you will be able to find wonderful new homes for them.
Please keep posting.


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## OrientalSlave

carly87 said:


> <snip>
> I don't know why people say that they won't give papers as it's a pet home and the price reflects that.
> <snip>


It's not expensive to register a kitten in the bigger view - it's £14 with the GCCF if it's a litter of one and the breeder has a prefix. I suspect a lot (most?) of these people are saying 'no papers' as their kittens CAN'T be registered.


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## moggie14

belleboris said:


> She's acting normal eating well , sleeping in her spot .
> I've started to add kitten food to her normal dry food ( she will only have dry ) and she eats a tone of food


I'm really pleased to hear Bonnie is well and have everything crossed that she will continue her pregnancy happy and healthy - so glad she is with you :Happy

On a separate note, I feel like a couple of posters are telling me off for sympathising. Not sure when it became a rule that you can only comment on a thread if you have personal experience of a situation or can give advice


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## Pear

If that was the case then I don't think I'd be able to post on this group very often as feline care is very new to me, but I know a fair amount about ferrets who are very similiar food and health wise.

It was more from my perspective that the OP was looking for advice on general wellbeing and it's very nice reaching out and sending private messages but there was no real 'advice' about additional active things which could be physically done for Bonnie on a forum which has a wealth of experience - so nice to share said infomation openly also.Turns out there isn't a huge amount at this point apart from calm environment, introducing kitten food, and extra cosy spots; the unexpected can not be predicted.

Alongside the sympathising and general disgust at poor Bonnie 's treatment and lack of care, respect for her health prior to ending up with the OP.



moggie14 said:


> I'm really pleased to hear Bonnie is well and have everything crossed that she will continue her pregnancy happy and healthy - so glad she is with you :Happy
> 
> On a separate note, I feel like a couple of posters are telling me off for sympathising. Not sure when it became a rule that you can only comment on a thread if you have personal experience of a situation or can give advice


----------



## chloe1975

moggie14 said:


> I'm really pleased to hear Bonnie is well and have everything crossed that she will continue her pregnancy happy and healthy - so glad she is with you :Happy
> 
> On a separate note, I feel like a couple of posters are telling me off for sympathising. Not sure when it became a rule that you can only comment on a thread if you have personal experience of a situation or can give advice


You shouldn't feel like that, your opinion and sympathy is just as valid as anyone else's. I think it may have been more about people obsessing over the original 'breeder' etc but that isn't going to help the op as whatever has happened is done.
At the moment other than feeding and keeping her calm there's really nothing else to do  hopefully if movement has already been felt then at least she won't have too long to wait either way xx


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## loroll1991

moggie14 said:


> I'm really pleased to hear Bonnie is well and have everything crossed that she will continue her pregnancy happy and healthy - so glad she is with you :Happy
> 
> On a separate note, I feel like a couple of posters are telling me off for sympathising. Not sure when it became a rule that you can only comment on a thread if you have personal experience of a situation or can give advice


Hun I didn't mean or aim my comment at anyone in particular. As @chloe1975 said your opinion and sympathy is just as valid as anyone else's! I just felt that more people were focussing on the previous breeder and not so much OP's original post. I have no experience at all with breeding and can't offer any advice at all, but I feel the advice that has been given is great  xx


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## moggie14

Thanks guys, I was worried my comments were just stirring up trouble although they were well meant. I hope @belleboris feels the PF support, I know between us all we can help her through this with Bonnie xx


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## Tigermoon

moggie14 said:


> Thanks guys, I was worried my comments were just stirring up trouble although they were well meant.


No not at all


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## belleboris

I want to thank every comment on this post , the support , consern and well wishes are all amazing .
Spoke to the breeder . Her first one was late but no formed kittens she just got large and then aborted bits , her second was earler and just blood .
They have offered to have her back if it's to much for me I politely declined .
I asked if she could have gotten out and told that she has never been out. At all ( I do believe this with the set up of the house ) but they have no idea when the male could have gotten to her .
Should I now move to the breeders section for advice ? Or am I still hoping a little ?


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I want to thank every comment on this post , the support , consern and well wishes are all amazing .
> Spoke to the breeder . Her first one was late but no formed kittens she just got large and then aborted bits , her second was earler and just blood .
> They have offered to have her back if it's to much for me I politely declined .
> I asked if she could have gotten out and told that she has never been out. At all ( I do believe this with the set up of the house ) but they have no idea when the male could have gotten to her .
> Should I now move to the breeders section for advice ? Or am I still hoping a little ?


I do think this is a little more hopeful since, if you have kittens moving, the pregnancy must already be further advanced than the previous two. Is she giving you cause for concern at the moment? If she seems happy you just need to watch her closely for any changes or signs of discomfort. Keep feeling the kittens moving because that will be reassuring. Anyway, that is one of the fun bits of having a pregnant cat.


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## Matrod

@belleboris I don't know how I've missed this, I'm so sorry things haven't gone as planned & you're in this unexpected situation . I can't offer you any advice but just wanted to add my support, thank goodness she's got you to look after her xx


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## The Wild Bunch

Hi @belleboris sorry that you and Bonnie have been put in this predicament. I really hope that she can hang on and deliver some healthy naked babies. I can't offer any advice other than to offer lots of good quality food and some nice, cosy and quiet places for her. She may prefer the company of your meezer girl or indeed you as I think some girls can become uber affectionate when pregnant.
Big hugs and please keep us updated on progress


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## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> Should I now move to the breeders section for advice ?


No need to move to the breeders section. There are several breeders who have replied on this thread who will be able to give you advice the further along Bonnie gets. I hope things go well for her this time. . As QOTN says, feeling the kittens moving is a positive sign but at least you know the problems from her last pregnancies now and can be a little more prepared


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## belleboris

Ok few questions so I don't have posts in all the cat pages .

1. She's on Royal cannin kitten , she will only eat dry food , is this the best dry for her ?

2 . I've brought some cheep self heating mats today, they can wash so will they be ok or shall I get more heat mats ? My home is walm all the time .

3 scan or no scan ? I was going to ask one of them scanner people who do Mobile scanning to come to my house , I've heard there accurate but do not want to stress her out at all .

4. Any idea on the bed set up ? Her face place is in a draw , it's a walk quiet room so I don't see her moving out of it , what's the best items to put in it ?


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## belleboris

lymorelynn said:


> No need to move to the breeders section. There are several breeders who have replied on this thread who will be able to give you advice the further along Bonnie gets. I hope things go well for her this time. . As QOTN says, feeling the kittens moving is a positive sign but at least you know the problems from her last pregnancies now and can be a little more prepared


Thank you  I'm going to phone my vets in the morning and let them know what I've been told ad see what they say . 
The breeder did seam shocked she was that far with live kittens inside


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## The Wild Bunch

I think ziwipeak and orijen are supposed to be good dry foods
If you can tempt her with wet though that would be better.
I would buy a roll of vet bed off eBay it's easy to wash and dry. Cut it into pieces and then she can nest in it if she wants and it holds heat so will be good for kittens to give birth on and for nursing afterwards


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## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> Ok few questions so I don't have posts in all the cat pages .
> 
> 1. She's on Royal cannin kitten , she will only eat dry food , is this the best dry for her ?
> 
> 2 . I've brought some cheep self heating mats today, they can wash so will they be ok or shall I get more heat mats ? My home is walm all the time .
> 
> 3 scan or no scan ? I was going to ask one of them scanner people who do Mobile scanning to come to my house , I've heard there accurate but do not want to stress her out at all .
> 
> 4. Any idea on the bed set up ? Her face place is in a draw , it's a walk quiet room so I don't see her moving out of it , what's the best items to put in it ?



Wet food is best, offer her some, but if she really will only eat dry then she has to eat it.
See 4.
No scan, as it can't change how you look after her.
A large cardboard box with flaps folded over the top and an entrance hole is good. Put a puppy pad or newspaper on the bottom and fleece bedding on top of that. Fleece is great as it lets moisture go straight through, and doesn't have loops for tiny claws to get caught on. Sometimes you need more than one box to give her a choice, but a lot of cats don't nest until in labour. If she wants to stay in the drawer then puppy pad or newspaper and fleece again. If she is an enclosed space and the room is warm there isn't really any need for a heat pad, unless she is one of those cats that delivers kittens any old place and doesn't settle to nursing them once they are all delivered. In that case a box with heat pad is useful to keep them warm while she finishes delivering, but they must be able to move off the heat pad if they want.
Also:

Read through the iCatCare pages on kittening. They are very through and cover most circumstances. http://icatcare.org/advice/my-cat-having-kittens
Make sure you have your vet's emergency number to hand and that you know where their out of hours is - it might not be where the normal surgery is.
It's useful to have a few odds & ends to hand for delivery. Clean cloths to wipe kittens with - microfiber cloths & tea towels are good. Notepad & pencil, it's awful easy to forget things in the heat of the moment. Phone, charged. Camera! I'm sure other people can add to that list.


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## belleboris

Thank you so much  
Will give it a read now . 
I still have that feeling in my belly this is going to be a long month ( if I have that long ) 
I do have all my vets details down and the emr night vets number . 

I have offered her wet food and she sniffs and walks off then aspen eats it my tubbie two tummies dose not need more food haha .


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## Blue-BearUK

Orijen, Applaws, & Acana are grain free dry foods. (I read that on here somewhere, & have a tendancy to screen shot any bit of useful information I find) 
Good luck with everything! I really hope she'll be Ok.


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## Blue-BearUK

Oooo just a thought. You also may need some scales to weigh the kittens. Same time everyday it is I believe ?


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## sarahecp

Sorry I'm unable to give you any advice @belleboris but just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and Bonnie and hoping all goes well for her and her babies xx


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## Tigermoon

I can't really add to OrientalSlave's post other than to say I wouldn't change her food at the moment. By all means try offering her wet food, as this is better for her than 100% dry but if she won't eat it then stick to the RC for now, the last thing you want to do is give her an upset stomach.

I wouldn't do a scan, such a waste of money and in my experience totally useless for giving an estimated birth date.


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## catcoonz

Please don't be tempted to change her food, if this causes tummy upset she may lose weight and could cause other issues, stay with what she is already eating.

I have in the past had scans done on my queens, pointless to be honest as the vet can only estimate delivery date and how many kittens are due.

Don't think you need the extra stress of counting kittens.

At the time of labour, im sure we will all be here to help you.
If you need my mobile number to call any time through the night, please just ask.

Watch kittens giving birth online, then you will know more of what to expect.

Line the drawer, if that's where she chooses to have the kittens with puppy pads.

Lastly, hard for you to do but please try and stay calm, if you get stressed, the queen picks up on this and will stress, keep calm.


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## catcoonz

Just caught up with more posts.
Ok, so late pregnancy before absorbed kittens, I can relate to that as this happened to my queen, but my queen then went on to have 3 healthy kittens which were perfect in a later pregnancy.

If you can feel/see kittens moving then that's good news.

Just keep feeding her as much as she will eat, watch/feel for kitten movement. Im watching a queen at the moment, I don't feel kittens moving every day but they are all fine.

As potentially she has not actually had a litter born she may need help if kittens are born in sacs and the cords doing.
This is very easy to do, sacs must be done immediately, just rip it open from the head part first so the kitten can breathe, keep a warm flannel with you so you can wipe around the mouth/nose area. I would purchase a kitten aspirator bulb online so if you need to clear airways from the nose/mouth this is the easiest way.

Cords, can safely be left attached to the kitten for an hour, Bonnie may do this herself but if not I double tie using cotton thread then either rip placenta side with nail or scissors.

I have a litter due shortly, if I can I will get photograph's for you to show you how I do the cords, you can probably find all videos online.

Finally, thank you for not giving Bonnie back to that previous owner, at least this way Bonnie and her kittens will have love and care.


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## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> Please don't be tempted to change her food, if this causes tummy upset she may lose weight and could cause other issues, stay with what she is already eating.
> 
> I have in the past had scans done on my queens, pointless to be honest as the vet can only estimate delivery date and how many kittens are due.
> 
> Don't think you need the extra stress of counting kittens.
> 
> At the time of labour, im sure we will all be here to help you.
> If you need my mobile number to call any time through the night, please just ask.
> 
> Watch kittens giving birth online, then you will know more of what to expect.
> 
> Line the drawer, if that's where she chooses to have the kittens with puppy pads.
> 
> Lastly, hard for you to do but please try and stay calm, if you get stressed, the queen picks up on this and will stress, keep calm.


Thanks so much  a number incase of freeking out would be great and much appreciated .


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## catcoonz

Messaged you my number.

Don't sit and worry, happy to help no matter what time of night.


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## belleboris

Ive looked on eBay and found this just need to know what I need from this list .
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=281170549468 
Here is a pic of her having her chin scratched in her usual place


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## belleboris

The belly


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## catcoonz

That's a nice size belly.

Nearer the time you may notice the belly drop which is all normal.

Looked at your list, my list is basic and others will add things for you ..

1ml syringe.
puppy pads.
cotton.
scissors.
Milton sterilising tablets.
flannels.
kitten aspirator bulb.

Finally Brandy.... for yourself, not the cat.


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## Catharinem

catcoonz said:


> That's a nice size belly.
> 
> Nearer the time you may notice the belly drop which is all normal.
> 
> Looked at your list, my list is basic and others will add things for you ..
> 
> 1ml syringe.
> puppy pads.
> cotton.
> scissors.
> Milton sterilising tablets.
> flannels.
> kitten aspirator bulb.
> 
> Finally Brandy.


Not brandy, or any alcohol, unless it's for human consumption once all delivered safely and suckling! Really hope it works out for you. How dare they offer to take her back "if it gets too much for you"? She's better off with you, and we will all help where we can.


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## Tigermoon

I use dental flossing tape to tie off the cords. I can't remember where I got this tip from now as I've been using it for well over 10 years  it had to be the tape version and not the cotton version but it is brilliant.


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## vivien

Morning Belleboris. I have just read through your post. I hope poor Bonnie has a full term pregnancy and doesn't have the stress of aborting. From what you have said it does sound like she may have reaborbed her babies. I can only send you my support and positive vibes for Bonnie. I think you may be better off staying here as although Bonnie is pregnant it's not straightforward and it would be seen quicker here if you needed help. I am away overnight so I won't be able to look in too much over the next couple of days. So I am sending you hugs and positive vibes. 

Viv xx


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## idris

Hi what a relief your not handing her back . She's in a much more caring situation with you 
I've just read this from start to finish and I'm very very happy that you are now getting practical and helpful information which was smothered at the start. It's not what you bargained for but it's sounding positive for her and her kittens. Good luck x hopefully the magnificent help and advice will get you through it .


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## OrientalSlave

I've never tied cords. Mostly mum has dealt with them, if not I tear the cord with my finger nails. However if you are going to cut it you must tie it first


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## Dumpling

I can't add anything to the advice already given, but just wanted to say that Bonnie is a lucky girl to have you, I hope she carries the babies full term and has some heathy little kittens xxx


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## spotty cats

loroll1991 said:


> I just felt that more people were focussing on the previous breeder and not so much OP's original post.


Those posts are still valid though, as was mentioned threads come up in Google. so hopefully a future searcher can see that doing some research before buying a cat is important, making sure all relevant tests and paperwork are done, knowing that good breeders don't adopt out retirees entire etc.

Things like HCM scanning are extremely important in this breed, it was mentioned in a previous thread as well and ignore there too. Hopefully when homes for the kittens are found they will all be fully informed of the risks their kitten may face in the future.



OrientalSlave said:


> I've never tied cords. Mostly mum has dealt with them, if not I tear the cord with my finger nails. However if you are going to cut it you must tie it first


Oh I just couldn't do that, too squeamish. I use a hemostat but have used dental floss in the past for those who think since Granny is here I may as well help out


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## Catharinem

Just a thought, but it might be worth looking into breeding insurance for the litter? I've only got my outside access cats insured as indoor ones far less likely to get injured, and if I add up the premiums for breeding girls it's cheaper to save up and pay out if necessary ( no massive bills so far). However, for just one queen, just one litter, would def be worth considering breeding insurance that covers the litter through pregnancy and up to point of sale, especially as you have concerns. I don't know what the time before cover starts, it might be you need to set in place sooner, but worth looking into? I beleive Agria do it, but maybe other breeders can help?


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## catcoonz

Pet insurance is a minefield.

I think Agria only cover breeders, in this case not sure they would cover Bonnie.

Pet Plan don't cover breeders.

Hopefully others will know more on the insurance side for you.


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## moggie14

I'd be surprised if Bonnie could be insured given her pre existing issues with pregnancy.


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## belleboris

If Bonnie has any live kittens I can ask the vets to refer her to the local vet hospital to have a scan for hcm so I can pass information on if any leave , 
I'm going to ask them if they can do this at the same time as her spay at the hospital when she's recovered from whatever is the outcome of this situation .

Ordered a few bits off wbay to get a starter pack and my sister it getting me some medical bits for my kit


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## belleboris

I'll have a look at the small print of some insurers but asked the vets the other day how much a section and aftercare is so I can put that amount away just incase .


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## Blue-BearUK

I think Agria only cover you for breeding 12 weeks before hand. 
I wouldn't imagine you could get her insured when she's already pregnant, especially considering her history. Maybe though.. I'm not 100% sure.


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## QOTN

I used to tie cords but frankly, if you are a bit clumsy like me, it is much easier to tear especially when everything is wet and slippery. You just have to remember to hold the cord tight on the kitten side and tear from the side away from the kitten. Bonnie may well see to the cords herself. Many of my girls were far too concerned with that end and would leave the kitten still with the membrane round its face. It is most important to clear the airways first and listen for any wheezing or bubbling in the breathing..


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## MollyMilo

Is dad a sphynx too? What a situation to find yourself in. I'm sure you will get all the help you need on here raising a litter of Sphynx. I don't think they are your average kitten litter. Do they need to be kept at a higher temp? Ears cleaned ect from birth? I am prob talking a load of poop here, but all the very best!!


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## belleboris

Dad is a sphynx also  
And we clean bonnies ears every few days so presume the kittens if we get to that would need me to take over once mum takes a step back .
My heads having a fight with itself I'm trying to think of the now and getting her through this and not thinking about the potential of kittens but also don't want to leave it till after there possibly born and need to fill my head with more info .... I've had a stress head ake from thu afternoon


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Dad is a sphynx also
> And we clean bonnies ears every few days so presume the kittens if we get to that would need me to take over once mum takes a step back .
> My heads having a fight with itself I'm trying to think of the now and getting her through this and not thinking about the potential of kittens but also don't want to leave it till after there possibly born and need to fill my head with more info .... I've had a stress head ake from thu afternoon


If you dwell too much on what *might* happen weeks ahead you could be worrying yourself unnecessarily. If you concentrate on the present and deal with what happens day by day, you will be less stressed about it all. It is probably better just to ask for advice when problems arise. If you have the basic requirements for the birth, once that is successfully accomplished the next few weeks are often completely trouble free. This could be the case with Bonnie. Fingers crossed for the next couple of weeks.


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## huckybuck

I haven't posted on the thread as I've no experience or advice I can offer but I just wanted to say how much I admire you for wanting to do the very best for Bonnie and hopefully her kittens. It must have been an awful position to find yourself but you are arming yourself with as much knowledge and prep you can which is admirable. 

I hope the pregnancy and birth run smoothly. Thinking of you.


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## catcoonz

Question from me as Sphynx are not my breed, do you need to keep the kittens warmer than Maine Coon kittens, due to lack of coat.

Bonnie could have a HCM swab done now if you are concerned, just contact Langfords and they will send you the swap kit, send off and 3 days later they email results.

Would have hoped the original breeder would have had that done previously being a queen, but I wouldn't take their word for it.


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## QOTN

catcoonz said:


> Question from me as Sphynx are not my breed, do you need to keep the kittens warmer than Maine Coon kittens, due to lack of coat.
> 
> Bonnie could have a HCM swab done now if you are concerned, just contact Langfords and they will send you the swap kit, send off and 3 days later they email results.
> 
> Would have hoped the original breeder would have had that done previously being a queen, but I wouldn't take their word for it.


I don't think Langfords test Sphynx for HCM. The gene has not yet been identified. The only tests they advise are Burmese Hypokalaemia and Congenital Myasthenic Syndrome which is rare. The GCCF warn about Muscular Dystrophy as well.

Since Bonnie does not have a future as a breeding queen it may be a good idea to wait and see what happens.


----------



## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> Question from me as Sphynx are not my breed, do you need to keep the kittens warmer than Maine Coon kittens, due to lack of coat.
> 
> Bonnie could have a HCM swab done now if you are concerned, just contact Langfords and they will send you the swap kit, send off and 3 days later they email results.
> 
> Would have hoped the original breeder would have had that done previously being a queen, but I wouldn't take their word for it.


I'll look at that now , been having a read and I thought it was an ultrasound and didn't want to stress her out .


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## belleboris

QOTN said:


> I don't think Langfords test Sphynx for HCM. The gene has not yet been identified. The only tests they advise are Burmese Hypokalaemia and Congenital Myasthenic Syndrome which is rare. The GCCF warn about Muscular Dystrophy as well.
> 
> Since Bonnie does not have a future as a breeding queen it may be a good idea to wait and see what happens.


There will be no more babies for Bonnie , the week she gets the go ahead from the vets that's she's fine to have it done she will be .


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## Lulus mum

Have no advice to offer ,
just wanted to say how I admire you for all that you are doing and THANK GOD you didnt send her back-(I knew that would never happen)
Bonnie is such a lucky girl and I hope that everything goes well.
Its at times like this that P F members show how we all pull together with advice and support,so a BIG thank you to everyone who has replied.
You and Bonnie are in my thoughts and prayers.
Maureen


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## pollypage

Moggie14 as already been said all opinions and comments are helpful and I for one have been in need over the last few week/months of folks opinions and comments and I shall be eternally grateful and all the ladies and gentlemen on here are like family.
So don't stop posting


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## spotty cats

QOTN said:


> I don't think Langfords test Sphynx for HCM. The gene has not yet been identified. The only tests they advise are Burmese Hypokalaemia and Congenital Myasthenic Syndrome which is rare. The GCCF warn about Muscular Dystrophy as well.
> 
> Since Bonnie does not have a future as a breeding queen it may be a good idea to wait and see what happens.


It is a scan and something that should be enquired about before purchasing a Sphynx. No decent breeder or buyer who's done any basic research on the breed would want to buy/breed one untested, it is very common in the breed unfortunately.
Those who don't test rely on people not doing a quick Google before purchasing.

Both parents need to be tested, since the previous breeder wasn't asked to provide paperwork showing this girl was scanned I doubt you'd get access to the males results if they exist.


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## JaimeandBree

catcoonz said:


> Question from me as Sphynx are not my breed, do you need to keep the kittens warmer than Maine Coon kittens, due to lack of coat


I was wondering this earlier but not being very knowledgeable wasn't sure whether to post it. I don't suppose we have any Sphynx breeders on here or anyone knows any good ones who could advise?


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## JaimeandBree

spotty cats said:


> No decent breeder or buyer who's done any basic research on the breed would want to buy/breed one untested, it is very common in the breed unfortunately.
> Those who don't test rely on people not doing a quick Google before purchasing.


I know you are keen to educate people on how to go about buying a kitten and that is a good thing, but I don't think it is necessarily helpful to keep pointing out any mistakes the OP in buying Bonnie may have made on this thread, which should be focussed on dealing with the situation as it is.

I think it is easy for people who know about these things to criticise but the fact is that a lot of people just don't know what questions they should be asking. Perhaps there could be a separate thread for breeders etc to give advice to people looking to purchase pedigree kittens but this thread should focus on Bonnie and her pregnancy.


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## Ceiling Kitty

JaimeandBree said:


> I know you are keen to educate people on how to go about buying a kitten and that is a good thing, but I don't think it is necessarily helpful to keep pointing out any mistakes the OP in buying Bonnie may have made on this thread, which should be focussed on dealing with the situation as it is.
> 
> I think it is easy for people who know about these things to criticise but the fact is that a lot of people just don't know what questions they should be asking. Perhaps there could be a separate thread for breeders etc to give advice to people looking to purchase pedigree kittens but this thread should focus on Bonnie and her pregnancy.


I think a thread is a good idea - I didn't realise there wasn't one already TBH.

It could cover the basics of choosing a pedigree cat breeder, and then anyone who breeds can add anything specific about their breed to look out for. I'm happy to write about any health aspects, but I'm sure our resident breeders would have it covered anyway.

Any volunteers?


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## QOTN

JaimeandBree said:


> I know you are keen to educate people on how to go about buying a kitten and that is a good thing, but I don't think it is necessarily helpful to keep pointing out any mistakes the OP in buying Bonnie may have made on this thread, which should be focussed on dealing with the situation as it is.
> 
> I think it is easy for people who know about these things to criticise but the fact is that a lot of people just don't know what questions they should be asking. Perhaps there could be a separate thread for breeders etc to give advice to people looking to purchase pedigree kittens but this thread should focus on Bonnie and her pregnancy.


I agree this thread is entirely for Bonnie's benefit in the hope she will be successful this time but a previous thread did list all the diseases possible in Sphynx (except for Muscular Dystrophy which has no DNA test or scan) before she was purchased. If only we had thought to advise checking for pregnancy as well but it never occurred to any of us unfortunately. I think we all assumed she was a kitten.


----------



## lymorelynn

Shoshannah said:


> I think a thread is a good idea - I didn't realise there wasn't one already TBH.
> 
> It could cover the basics of choosing a pedigree cat breeder, and then anyone who breeds can add anything specific about their breed to look out for. I'm happy to write about any health aspects, but I'm sure our resident breeders would have it covered anyway.
> 
> Any volunteers?


While this sounds an excellent suggestion I fear that the majority of people will be coming to the forum for advice after the fact. I'm happy to make a sticky if anyone wants to do a thread though.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

lymorelynn said:


> While this sounds an excellent suggestion I fear that the majority of people will be coming to the forum for advice after the fact. I'm happy to make a sticky if anyone wants to do a thread though.


I agree Lynn, I had considered that - however, it's no worse than telling people directly that they've done it wrong when it's too late, and at least it has a chance of being seen.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

QOTN said:


> I agree this thread is entirely for Bonnie's benefit in the hope she will be successful this time but a previous thread did list all the diseases possible in Sphynx (except for Muscular Dystrophy which has no DNA test or scan) before she was purchased. If only we had thought to advise checking for pregnancy as well but it never occurred to any of us unfortunately. I think we all assumed she was a kitten.


Might be something to add to the thread: if purchasing an ex-breeding queen, ensure she is neutered - or at the very least definitely not pregnant!


----------



## JaimeandBree

QOTN said:


> I agree this thread is entirely for Bonnie's benefit in the hope she will be successful this time but a previous thread did list all the diseases possible in Sphynx (except for Muscular Dystrophy which has no DNA test or scan) before she was purchased. If only we had thought to advise checking for pregnancy as well but it never occurred to any of us unfortunately. I think we all assumed she was a kitten.


Thanks, I didn't realise there had been a previous thread.

Still, on this thread there is no point in going over old ground but focussing on the future.

I see what you're saying @lymorelynn about a lot of people coming to the forum after the fact but we do have a lot of people on here who have maybe never had a kitten from a breeder before but might in future (I may be one of them one day) and be looking for advice so I think a sticky is a great idea, easy for me to say as I can't contribute to it but if anyone wants to I think it would be great


----------



## belleboris

I did post up I was looking for another cat to go with aspen and I was told of test to ask for but at the time of visiting when I got her from it was hard to walk away from her ...my bad I know but it looks like it may be to Bonnies benefit in the long run . 
I did try to remember the tests names there but got all flustered so asked about vets and was trying to get to the bottom of why she had lost the kittens .
As a newbie to this world it's hard to spot the problems as a breeder would . 
I was never going for a kitten as aspen is older so bringing a small new cat in would have been unfair ( in my eyes ) so papers and such wouldn't matter to me as she would be a lifelong pet .
If I had got the call this wouldn't be happening now and you would all be getting spam of my hairless baby but it is happening .
I hope this thread dose show up on a search as the information is brill . I hope it also leads people maby looking for a new cat to this before they go and do what I've done .

I also know ALOT of people would have drove back and handed her back . I had most people I know say to do it . This forum has a lot of pet lovers in one place with brill information , I. And almost feel people's frustration and there wanting to bank there heads on the screen saying not again . The how is done , just the what to do about it continues


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> I did post up I was looking for another cat to go with aspen and I was told of test to ask for but at the time of visiting when I got her from it was hard to walk away from her ...my bad I know but it looks like it may be to Bonnies benefit in the long run .
> I did try to remember the tests names there but got all flustered so asked about vets and was trying to get to the bottom of why she had lost the kittens .
> As a newbie to this world it's hard to spot the problems as a breeder would .
> I was never going for a kitten as aspen is older so bringing a small new cat in would have been unfair ( in my eyes ) so papers and such wouldn't matter to me as she would be a lifelong pet .
> If I had got the call this wouldn't be happening now and you would all be getting spam of my hairless baby but it is happening .
> I hope this thread dose show up on a search as the information is brill . I hope it also leads people maby looking for a new cat to this before they go and do what I've done .
> 
> I also know ALOT of people would have drove back and handed her back . I had most people I know say to do it . This forum has a lot of pet lovers in one place with brill information , I. And almost feel people's frustration and there wanting to bank there heads on the screen saying not again . The how is done , just the what to do about it continues


You're absolutely right , I think Bonnie will benefit in the long run from you taking her instead of her remaining where she was. And I've seen a lot of people say the same thing, when they've bought kittens unwittingly from a less than perfect breeder.

I have a lot of respect for you for keeping her if everyone in your life is telling you to take her back. You are right in that this forum is a community of pet lovers so we view it in that context, but equally as you say the how is done and it is what you do from hereon in that counts  xx


----------



## MCWillow

Shoshannah said:


> Might be something to add to the thread: if purchasing an ex-breeding queen, ensure she is neutered - or at the very least definitely not pregnant!


When I was looking for a silver MC (only because I knew I my OH loved them, and it was my best chance of getting a cat) I was looking at ex-breeding queens, I was looking at anything, that was silver and a Maine Coon.

It didnt even cross my mind to ask if ex queens were neutered - I just assumed they would be.

A thread really spelling out all the things to look for would be great.

I have 3 cats from BYBs - and 2 pedigrees. I dont treat any of them differently, as people who have met me, and them, or know of us on here, will attest to.

But I do see @lymorelynn 's point. I didnt join until after I got Willow (my first), so it would have been shutting the barn door late.

I had also been to visit Rowan and Holly, before all the knowledge had been absorbed - and no-way was I leaving them behind, even after I was told to walk away. I thank god every day, that I took those babies - because I dont know what would have happened to Rowan if I didnt take him...

I dont really know what I am trying to say really - You are doing an amazing job with Bonnie, she fell on all 4 paws when she found you.

Just keep doing what you are doing, and keep loving her as you do - you cant go wrong.

It may not be what you planned, but she is in the right hands for what has happened - and she knows that xxxxx


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## belleboris

Just to show you my chair tonight


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Just to show you my chair tonight


Aww she is obviously very comfortable with you


----------



## catcoonz

Fact is people looking to purchase an adult cat do not expect to be handed a pregnant queen, in this case the breeder is wrong for not spaying before rehoming but this breeder is not the only one I have seen advertised selling retired queens where new owners have to spay.

I am more concerned at the moment of how warm the home should be to keep Sphynx kittens warm enough so they don't chill, I know how to care for my breed of kittens but I have no knowledge of the Sphynx breed.

I can help with labour/birthing and general new born care but my knowledge would be based on how I do things.

How can a breeder who owns both queens and a stud not know that they had mated.

My own personal opinion is the breeder knew they had mated, after the 2 losses during pregnancy the breeder didn't want to be hit with vet bills and sold her on quickly, knowing full well somebody else would have the heart ache, but never mind, at least the breeder didn't need to be concerned any more as a lovely owner came along not knowing and trusting the breeder, only for the poor owner and Bonnie to be going through this.

Karma springs to mind here ..... Bonnie will have a beautiful healthy litter, be a good mum, has a wonderful caring owner and the breeder will wish she kept her as a future queen.


----------



## JaimeandBree

catcoonz said:


> I am more concerned at the moment of how warm the home should be to keep Sphynx kittens warm enough so they don't chill, I know how to care for my breed of kittens but I have no knowledge of the Sphynx breed.
> 
> I can help with labour/birthing and general new born care but my knowledge would be based on how I do things.


Absolutely agree with this CC. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum that could be put to good use in the situation, I am a bit worried about this being a breed that may need special care, if anyone has any contacts who could advise on Sphynx kittens that would be the most useful thing. I know you will do everything within your knowledge to help Hun xx


----------



## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> Fact is people looking to purchase an adult cat do not expect to be handed a pregnant queen, in this case the breeder is wrong for not spaying before rehoming but this breeder is not the only one I have seen advertised selling retired queens where new owners have to spay.
> 
> I am more concerned at the moment of how warm the home should be to keep Sphynx kittens warm enough so they don't chill, I know how to care for my breed of kittens but I have no knowledge of the Sphynx breed.
> 
> I can help with labour/birthing and general new born care but my knowledge would be based on how I do things.
> 
> How can a breeder who owns both queens and a stud not know that they had mated.
> 
> My own personal opinion is the breeder knew they had mated, after the 2 losses during pregnancy the breeder didn't want to be hit with vet bills and sold her on quickly, knowing full well somebody else would have the heart ache, but never mind, at least the breeder didn't need to be concerned any more as a lovely owner came along not knowing and trusting the breeder, only for the poor owner and Bonnie to be going through this.
> 
> Karma springs to mind here ..... Bonnie will have a beautiful healthy litter, be a good mum, has a wonderful caring owner and the breeder will wish she kept her as a future queen.


My house is super walm , she also has a choice of 3 beds that aspen didn't use . They all have the self heating mats in and one a heat mat.
glad I turned up when I did as she can become a pet soon and help me do cooking and washing with aspen


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## catcoonz

Have you thought about contacting the Sphynx Cat Club, they may have additional information they could share with you.


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## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> Have you thought about contacting the Sphynx Cat Club, they may have additional information they could share with you.


Allready on it  I've been on the phone to a lady tonight who has Siamese and orientals , she breeds and shows them and has given me some brill information , she is going to chat to a sphynx breeder for me to get in contact with , IF she has live kittens and I get them to 15 weeks to spay/neuter them I've asked for there help to get them nice pet homes


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## catcoonz

After you have chosen one to keep.


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## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Allready on it  I've been on the phone to a lady tonight who has Siamese and orientals , she breeds and shows them and has given me some brill information , she is going to chat to a sphynx breeder for me to get in contact with , IF she has live kittens and I get them to 15 weeks to spay/neuter them I've asked for there help to get them nice pet homes


Sounds great, let's keep all fingers and paws crossed for a healthy birth  xx


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## maisiecat

Have only just seen this thread, she is a beautiful girl and I hope all goes well for her. I have wanted a Sphynx for many years, and at one time looked into rescuing one, they are rarely given up for rescue. Those photos you see of them wearing little jumpers aren't just for show, they do need to be kept warm, but they do look so cute in their little sweaters. 

So easy to love a pet and not want to give him or her back when things have been hidden from you, I know this, having been lied to by a 'rescue', not for the same reason as you were, but I adopted a 'healthy' cat that wasn't - multiple problems but no way was he going back. Good for you for keeping her and giving her a good life.


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## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> After you have chosen one to keep.


they may all need to stay , crazy cat lady here I come ... Who needs an oh when you have a bad full of cats


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## Erenya

I didn't want to say anything, but I have a very close friend of mine who may be interested. They lost their last sphynx kitten through a major undiagnosed stomach problem.

I hope bonnie's pregnancy goes well. She's got the hopes and prayers of cat chat behind her


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## Tigermoon

I do think the idea of a thread about buying a pedigree cat is a great idea. It may help people. 

At the end of the day even the most experienced can get caught out. I have and I know of plenty of other breeders who have too and it's not for lack of knowledge about the breed or what we should be looking for.


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## Soozi

@belleboris I know nothing of breeding but I do hope that Bonnie has an uneventful pregnancy and produces gorgeous healthy kittens! Thinking of you!


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## Firedog

I don't have cats but I do check in from time to time just to see what's been going on. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope Bonnie has a trouble free pregnancy and a beautiful healthy litter of kittens. Good luck. I will be watching and waiting.


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## catcoonz

How is Bonnie in herself, is she still eating loads and can you still feel kittens moving?


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## huckybuck

@lymorelynn

I knew absolutely nothing about testing when I got Huck and even though I did when I got Holly I was too intimidated to question the breeder on the doubts I had at the time. I joined the forum prior to getting Grace and gained a little more knowledge of what I should be looking for etc. However even with the knowledge I have gained and all the research I have done I still got caught out with Little H (4th M/C later).

A thread about what you should look for and expect from a pedigree breeder as well as links to the various tests for the breed, cat clubs etc would be invaluable on this forum.

I do think many people come after the event but I also think there are others who may view the forum looking for advice on where to find a good breeder (I know I did).


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## Elsiebea

Wishing you and Bonnie the best of luck x


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## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> How is Bonnie in herself, is she still eating loads and can you still feel kittens moving?


She is getting more cuddly and needy if I sit down she curled up on my puring v loud .
She's eating loads I've filled the bowl up allready today and it's half empty again . ( aspen isn't helpin she likes kitten food too)
Felt movement last night while we were on the sofa .


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## catcoonz

Bless, sometimes when you feel movement you can try and count kittens.


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## MoggyBaby

Just caught up on this thread..... Wow!!! No wonder your head was spinning. Really good to read that Bonnie seems to be holding her own this time. Maybe your quieter home is more calming for her, your love for her is felt and this means she is less stressed. The result being that she is having a better pregnancy. Maybe you are the key factor here.  

I really hope she goes to term and has an easy, uneventful birth. Good luck. xx


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## belleboris

So the breeder I spoke to has her girls scanned by someone who goes to her house if they want more info .
I spoke to her and then I spoke to them and they have just come round to scan Bonnie .
He says by the looks of things she has two very active fully formed kittens that will arrive in the next 7-14 days  
Bonnie was happy to be petted while the scan was being done and it's nice to see the babies looking well .
May have been a waste of monies but I feel a lot more reassured in myself and now have just done some major online shopping for supply's


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## Ali71

I've just spent the last half hour or so reading this entire thread. Bless you @belleboris for taking care of sweet Bonnie. I'm afraid I have no advice but I wanted to wish you all the best. X


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## moggie14

Ooh I'm so excited for you! Not long to wait then! Also really pleased to hear that Bonnie is just fine right now xxx :Happy


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## catcoonz

Scan sounds good.
At least it makes you feel better having the scan done, sometimes I have mine scanned just for my own sanity.


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## belleboris

Was so nice to see the two little babies wiggling about inside , mad how much you can see and how big they are ! 
So hope this ends well now , didn't plan 4 cats but hay
Readin up on what to expect from birth now , lots of YouTube vids


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## cheekyscrip

Just read about Bonnie. She won the lottery in.cats luck with you and fingers crossed for the best outcome.


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## loroll1991

I know this isn't exactly as you planned but I am very excited for you and the new additions and really hope all goes well! Bet it was amazing seeing the two babies wriggling around  xxx


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## catcoonz

Natural to be excited and worried the first time your cat gives birth.
I was the same but afterwards when you get to watch them grow, is just the most amazing experience.


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## belleboris

Now there is two I'm going to phone about to see how much I can get all 4 insured for and work out food and health costs , if it's doable they will all stay put


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## vivien

Hi Belleboris. I have just caught up with your news. It's great news that you have 2 fully formed healthy kittens. I am wondering if Bonnie was stressed at her last home and that made her abort. Sending you lots of positive vibes that the rest of her pregnancy goes well and the birth uneventful.  I cried when I saw she had 2 kittens   

Viv xx


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## LostSoul

i have no experience with anything you are going though but wanted to send my love your way...keeping everything crossed for you, Bonnie and those babies, praying that now shes in a loving calm home things will be just fine...


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## belleboris

He did say she was getting picked on there so many that had something to do with it , mind you it's been a bit up and down with aspen , 
We're having a snuggle tonight  spot the cat !


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## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> He did say she was getting picked on there so many that had something to do with it , mind you it's been a bit up and down with aspen ,
> We're having a snuggle tonight  spot the cat !


Eeeee as snug as a bug in a rug!! xx


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## belleboris

Haha I carnt hear the to over her puring it's so loud !


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## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Haha I carnt hear the to over her puring it's so loud !


I am so happy she is with you and that she has you taking care of her and her babies. She is in safe hands now you have her :Shamefullyembarrased xxx


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## carly87

Please don't just assume she has only 2 kittens because that's what you saw on the scan. Ultrasounds are notoriously inaccurate at counting kitten numbers, so there may well be more in there.

I'd recommend speaking to a lovely breeder friend of mine whose profix is Nobilero. She breeds Sphynx and devons, is incredibly knowledgeable, very ethical and I'm sure will give you some advice if you explain your situation.

you will need to keep Sphynx kittens warmer, yes, so a self heating pad probably isn't enough. Please have a look at the list I sent you again. In there, I mention vetbed, and specific heat pads you can get which won't burn the kittens. This is doubly important in Sphynx as they have no furr to protect their delicate skin.


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## belleboris

carly87 said:


> Please don't just assume she has only 2 kittens because that's what you saw on the scan. Ultrasounds are notoriously inaccurate at counting kitten numbers, so there may well be more in there.
> 
> I'd recommend speaking to a lovely breeder friend of mine whose profix is Nobilero. She breeds Sphynx and devons, is incredibly knowledgeable, very ethical and I'm sure will give you some advice if you explain your situation.
> 
> you will need to keep Sphynx kittens warmer, yes, so a self heating pad probably isn't enough. Please have a look at the list I sent you again. In there, I mention vetbed, and specific heat pads you can get which won't burn the kittens. This is doubly important in Sphynx as they have no furr to protect their delicate skin.


I'm working through the list  most is on it's way including the proper heat mat , the self heating mats are for the beds she goes in each day .
The man said there may be another hiding , but the two you could see looked great .
Do I google search nobilero ? Sorry for such stupid question ?


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I'm working through the list  most is on it's way including the proper heat mat , the self heating mats are for the beds she goes in each day .
> The man said there may be another hiding , but the two you could see looked great .
> Do I google search nobilero ? Sorry for such stupid question ?


www.nobilero.com/


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## ALR

Aw this is great news. I'm so happy the kittens are well and growing. Bonnie seemed to have settled very well in her new family. Keeping fingers crossed that all goes smoothly. You're going to be a mummy


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## Vanessa131

ALR said:


> Aw this is great news. I'm so happy the kittens are well and growing. Bonnie seemed to have settled very well in her new family. Keeping fingers crossed that all goes smoothly. You're going to be a mummy


Grandma!


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## belleboris

I cannot find a box the mat fits in and also has some space for getting away from the heat apart from this one What do people think ? She's happy .
Also she's desided to eat wet food ! ( well she took my tuna butty ) so what's the best ? The thread confused the life out of me , also needs to be able to get here easy and fast


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I cannot find a box the mat fits in and also has some space for getting away from the heat apart from this one What do people think ? She's happy .
> Also she's desided to eat wet food ! ( well she took my tuna butty ) so what's the best ? The thread confused the life out of me , also needs to be able to get here easy and fast


I always put the mat under the box even though mine was a metal one. You don't want it getting wet.

She may be happier with a cardboard box over the top with just the front open. That will make her feel secure.


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## belleboris

Good idea  I'll put it under , re these mats . How safe are they to leave on all the time ? It's not an import one so uk safe .
And I'll find a box to put over it  she dose like a snug area


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Good idea  I'll put it under , re these mats . How safe are they to leave on all the time ? It's not an import one so uk safe .
> And I'll find a box to put over it  she dose like a snug area


Does it have a plastic cover? If so I always found they deteriorated if not kept completely flat. They are generally very safe to leave on all the time as they are very low wattage.


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## belleboris

It's plastic with a fleece cover  and waterproof .
She's liking it but still wants down my top !


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## carly87

Ooooo, they've come up in the world then! When I bought mine, it was just the plastic stuff. they're just fine to leave on all the time. I tend to put mine in one back corner of the box, then they can crawl to the front to get away. Box needs to be at the very least 2 ft square to allow mum to stretch to suckle, but I find that bigger is better. Look for something like an old TV box, although I suppose TVs these days come in tiny slim ones.


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## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> I cannot find a box the mat fits in and also has some space for getting away from the heat apart from this one What do people think ? She's happy .
> Also she's desided to eat wet food ! ( well she took my tuna butty ) so what's the best ? The thread confused the life out of me , also needs to be able to get here easy and fast


I'm sorry j can't help advise on the box etc but you are doing a fantastic job getting everything prepared for her  you're a great Grandma  and Mummy is absolutely perfect x


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## belleboris

Work has lots of catboats boxes that range from tiny to HUGE !
Look at the size of her !!! Where has this belly come from ?
Didn't think she would get this large with 2 babies ( if there is only 2)


----------



## Reets

It does look like more than two, doesn't it?

Well done with everything, hats off to you. She is looking really happy.


----------



## Susan M

Wow she's huge! This year one of my breeders girls was massive and the babies moved like crazy like they were fighting for space, we were so surprised when there were only 2!


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## catcoonz

I use crisp boxes, then cut down the front enough so mum can get in and out easily but contains the kittens.
I then place 6 puppy pads to fit neatly inside, so after birth I can just take the top one out without disturbing mum too much.

That is a huge belly.


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## belleboris

I'm going box hunting today ( after I've picked up there new cat tree) 
She's become like my shadow and as soon as I sit down she's on me .

Still having bed peeing issues again so this should be a time of washing lots and lots my duvet is in the wash as we speak again , she needs to be in my room as it's calm and walm for her , 
Just wondering if anyone has any tips I cannot be the only person who has had a kitty pee on a bed but they need to use that room .
I know it will get better once she's done but I've got till after Christmas now before I can get her and the babies done .


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## Citruspips

@belleboris I just wanted to say I think your doing a fantastic job she's one very lucky kitty x


----------



## catcoonz

can only think of those waterproof protectors you get in Argos for the bed.


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## vivien

I keep looking in to see how Bonnie is doing. I am off again tomorrow as we are staying in a hotel again on the outskirts of Birmingham. Then going to the supreme Saturday. So I will pop in Quickly tomorrow to see how she is doing. She looks really well and so relaxed. I think she is very happy and contented with you, bless her.

Viv xx


----------



## belleboris

Thank you all , she has settled in well a bit quicker than aspen did bless her .
Aspen is finding my lap takeover hard , we are giving her lots of cuddles and she also has a new.donut bed .
I may wash and put away my duck duvet as its a full day min to get it clean and dry .
I got a matress protector when aspen started peeing


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## catcoonz

you can also get duvet waterproof protectors, I have one as my queen always insisted that labour in my bed was so much better than her own nesting box.


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## Tigermoon

catcoonz said:


> you can also get duvet waterproof protectors, I have one as my queen always insisted that labour in my bed was so much better than her own nesting box.


Oooo, where do you get these fabled things!? I could do with one for kittening queens


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## Soozi

Tigermoon said:


> Oooo, where do you get these fabled things!? I could do with one for kittening queens


Loads here Hun! http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Search/searchTerm/waterproof+mattress+protectors.htm


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## Soozi

Bonnie is huge bless her! I am praying that all goes well with the birth! you are doing a wonderful job! sending hugs to you all! xxx


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## belleboris

wormers ! I forgot all about it , went to pick the nutri drops and some other odd and ends up and there they were , is it to late ? I've got the pancular paste


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## belleboris

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=261991199065

And just ordered me one of these for under my normal one


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## chloe1975

I always use a vegetable box from the supermarket for kittens. They are just the right size usually for first couple of weeks. Cardboard is warmer than plastic and once finished with can just be chucked out. I have a stack of puppy pads and cat fleece blankets from zooplus so have got a supply to switch out once dirty. The box we put under my sons desk. Our cats are really social with each other and so would never accept being shut in a room and would find it really stressful, they are free to come and go through the house as they please.


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## belleboris

I'll go grab a box today from the supermarket , I got a huge one yesterday but it is a tad big

So I have a heat mat, vet bed, fleece snug blanket ( she likes them ) and I'll get the vege box .
Do I put the mat on the floor . The box on top , the vet bed inside the box and her fleece snug blankie on or the heat mat in the box ?


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I'll go grab a box today from the supermarket , I got a huge one yesterday but it is a tad big
> 
> So I have a heat mat, vet bed, fleece snug blanket ( she likes them ) and I'll get the vege box .
> Do I put the mat on the floor . The box on top , the vet bed inside the box and her fleece snug blankie on or the heat mat in the box ?


Yes the mat will be best on the floor possibly with a piece of towel or similar underneath to ensure heat is directed where it is required. I would put something absorbent underneath the vet bed once the kittens have arrived and Bonnie has settled but for the birth itself you really need lots of pieces of bedding ready so you can change it after each kitten if necessary. I always used pieces of old flannelette sheet.

I used to keep somewhere snug away from the box in case I needed to remove the kittens already born while the queen was still in labour. Girls are all different. Some will be happy to feed the babies while they are having more while others will move about quite a bit. If Bonnie is the latter sort it is safer to keep the kittens out of the way to prevent them being trampled underfoot.


----------



## Erenya

My best friend and his wife were round last night and I showed them your picture of Bonnie sitting proudly in her box and they absolutely fell in love. They were the ones who lost their sphynx kitten sadly due to an incurable stomach condition.

They have said that if you do end up looking for homes for any kittens, please, please, please, consider them, as mum is the most gorgeous thing they've seen in ages 

They also fully understand if you decide to keep all the kittens or have found homes already, they just wanted me to pass on their interest and would be happy to talk with you directly once you have a better idea of the situation 

I hope that's not too forward


----------



## Alisonfoy

belleboris said:


> I cannot find a box the mat fits in and also has some space for getting away from the heat apart from this one What do people think ? She's happy .
> Also she's desided to eat wet food ! ( well she took my tuna butty ) so what's the best ? The thread confused the life out of me , also needs to be able to get here easy and fast


Oh, look at her little face in the photo attached to this post. Bless her! Hope she's liking your arrangements  (box, blankets, warmers etc) and that all goes well xx


----------



## belleboris

we are hoping to keep one , we will keep more of good homes are not found but they will stay till after Christmas when they will be done .
Let's hope there little fighters and make it , they and mum have still been through a lot in the last weeks ,I can feel them moving and see them moving if she sits down long enough .
She is so hard to take a pic of as she needs to investigate everything that's in reach ( and sometimes not ) 

Both girls loved there new cat tree and have been scratching away at it and sleeping in the caves .


----------



## ALR

It's amazing she's doing so well with you. I'm sure it's because she knows she's well looked after 

Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly for the birth.


----------



## belleboris

V tubbish vid of Bonnie and the small screen moving , the second I put my phone down they went crazy .


----------



## chillminx

@Tigermoon - Waterproof duvet cover:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0010DUWFY


----------



## Susan M

belleboris said:


> V tubbish vid of Bonnie and the small screen moving , the second I put my phone down they went crazy .


 She looks really happy and relaxed  It's amazing watching kittens moving, and even better when you feel them!


----------



## blade100

SHE is gorgeous! I hope her birth goes extremely well for you and her.
She's very lucky to have found you xx


----------



## Soozi

What a beautiful girl she's going to make a great Mum too! I feel she is so relaxed and happy that all is going to go really well! Can't wait now! xxx


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> V tubbish vid of Bonnie and the small screen moving , the second I put my phone down they went crazy .


Listen to that purr!! She seems so happy and content  she's just beautiful and will make a great mum xx


----------



## Elsiebea

Can't wait to see pictures of the newborns. Not long now x


----------



## loroll1991

Sorry if you have already said and I may have missed it but how long until the bundles of joy are due? Xx


----------



## belleboris

loroll1991 said:


> Sorry if you have already said and I may have missed it but how long until the bundles of joy are due? Xx


From the scanner that came to mine , between tomorrow and latest next Sunday ... We're at the countdown.


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> From the scanner that came to mine , between tomorrow and latest next Sunday ... We're at the countdown.


Eeeee I didn't realise that soon  it'll go in no time I'm sure! You're doing great and will make a fantastic grandparent and Bonnie will make a great mum!  xx


----------



## Azriel391

Bonnie will be an amazing mum with your support I'm sure xxx all hercPF aunties n uncles can't wait to see her babies xx


----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> From the scanner that came to mine , between tomorrow and latest next Sunday ... We're at the countdown.


We're on kitten watch together @belleboris - my Gracie is due mid-week :Cat


----------



## belleboris

lymorelynn said:


> We're on kitten watch together @belleboris - my Gracie is due mid-week :Cat


I'm still learning all the things she may do before she stars .
Hoping she has no issues


----------



## Elsiebea

Oh! The very best wishes to both of you @lymorelynn @belleboris


----------



## BumbleB

Good luck <3 I really hope the birth goes well x


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> From the scanner that came to mine , between tomorrow and latest next Sunday ... We're at the countdown.


Gosh you're going to be shattered if they don't arrive until next Sunday! But fingers crossed everything will go smoothly for you and Bonnie.


----------



## belleboris

Tigermoon said:


> Gosh you're going to be shattered if they don't arrive until next Sunday! But fingers crossed everything will go smoothly for you and Bonnie.


I'm good at not having much sleep and walking at the drop of a pin
I have twins that have never slept through and after years of it I'm used to it .
She's sleeping in my room after I've moved all her beds in there and she likes the giant box .


----------



## moggie14

I'm following this thread in anticipation and with everything crossed that Bonnie continues to do well xxxx


----------



## Soozi

I keep popping in too! Can't wait I feel so sure all will be well! Bonnie seems to be so relaxed and happy!  xxx


----------



## Dumpling

belleboris said:


> From the scanner that came to mine , between tomorrow and latest next Sunday ... We're at the countdown.


I didn't realise she was due so soon!
Everything crossed for that it all goes smoothly. She seems so happy with you


----------



## huckybuck

Keeping everything crossed for you that the birth goes smoothly. You are doing such a wonderful job looking after her xx


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Joining in the kitten watch!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Everything crossed for you and Belle will be watching anxiously for news ! Xxx


----------



## loroll1991

I am anxiously watching and waiting for news! Hope the birth goes smoothly xx


----------



## Sophiebee

I havent commented on this thread before as i have nothing useful to offer but ive been following and wish you and bonnie lots of luck with the birth, you are doing such a brilliant job for her.


----------



## belleboris

Awwww thank you all  
Let the waiting commence !!!

No changes at all today she's acting normal if anything a bit bad with aspen she keeps swiping her 

I carnt do temps now as sphynx have a higher temp I've heard or is it worth taking each day for a noticed change ?


----------



## Tigermoon

I assume that if it works then her temp will drop the 1°C regardless of the normal temperature being higher than other cats. But you'd need to start now so you can gain some insight to her normal resting temp.

Having said that, it's only worked once for me so I've dropped it as a warning method of impending birth.


----------



## belleboris

May not bother her then if it's not the best .
Good news is I can see the kittens bounding about inside mum all the time , great having a hairless baby


----------



## Little Zooey

belleboris said:


> Awwww thank you all
> Let the waiting commence !!!
> 
> No changes at all today she's acting normal if anything a bit bad with aspen she keeps swiping her
> 
> I carnt do temps now as sphynx have a higher temp I've heard or is it worth taking each day for a noticed change ?


I too don't have much to contribute, but I keep checking in for news. We have a Devon Rex and as far as I know, yes... they and Sphynx are one degree warmer. (Our Gremlin has a bed we made for him in a box by the Aga)


----------



## Matrod

I didn't realise she was due so soon either, not long to go now!! How lovely being able to see the kittens move about in her :Cat


----------



## Lulus mum

Have followed your story and just want to send BIG HUGS


----------



## belleboris

I'm now so excited It was never the plan and I thought I was going to get up one morning to a v sad kitty and mini taken to soon kitty's 
Each day them little babies are wiggling about makes me happy .
She's been through so much this last 4 weeks poor girl . 
No idea how stressed she was to keep loosing them before


----------



## huckybuck

Gosh every time I see you post I hold my breath..I think we're all getting very excited/anxious/nervous with you!!


----------



## loroll1991

huckybuck said:


> Gosh every time I see you post I hold my breath..I think we're all getting very excited/anxious/nervous with you!!


Me too and couldn't agree more!! We're all here with you @belleboris every time I see you update this post I think "OH MY!!!" xx


----------



## belleboris

Sorry no kittens but she's been digging in her fairtrade box ! I had to set it up like this as she likes to sit just outside the box when she's not sleeping


----------



## belleboris

Look at this now lol !


----------



## sarahecp

Aww Bonnie, she looks very relaxed and happy, bless her


----------



## Ali71

Such an exciting time, definitely waiting with baited breath here! You're doing a marvellous job, Bonnie looks very relaxed and content x


----------



## idris

Aww she's looking very big and very content. Hope it's sooner rather than later . Good luck x


----------



## Tigermoon

Blimey she looks like she's swallowed a football! 

It also looks like the fairtrade box is the chosen spot!! 

Have a pen and notepad to hand. Write down every little detail when the time comes. The time of each push, the time of each kitten and the time of each placenta. I find this helps keep me calm and heaven forbid you should require veterinary assistance, it means you'll have all the details for them too.


----------



## Blue-BearUK

Awww. Best of luck to you both! She's huge bless her. So gorgeous though! Not long now  eeeeeek :Cat:Cat:Cat


----------



## cava14 una

She looks so happy and relaxed. You are doing a great job:Cat


----------



## Tweety1977

She looks such a lovely cat, have everything crossed here for her for a safe delivery and happy little bundles of purrs.


----------



## catcoonz

Don't assume 2 kittens even though you have had a scan, I think there are more than 2 in that huge belly.


----------



## loroll1991

She's so beautiful and looks so content! But my oh my!!!! look at the size of that belly  xx


----------



## Firedog

Bless her. Look at that tummy.


----------



## belleboris

Bonnie has just full on attacked aspen , Bonnie has scratches on her neck and round her legs (she looks bad as she's hairless but not cut just scratches ) and aspen has lost bits of fur . 
What do I do now They were sleeping on the bed together last night .
I'm so upset not a good time for this .


----------



## Firedog

Sounds like you are going to have to separate them, it sounds like she is getting close, not that I know anything about cats. I reckon there is about six kittens in there.


----------



## Catharinem

Wherever you/ Bonnie have decided to have her nest ( her Fair-trade box), keep her in that room now, and keep Aspen away from her. Hormones are raging, and tolerance of another cat, or even getting to know well enough for a shared nap is not the same as trusting around labour and newborn kittens. She may even be having a few pangs as kittens get into position. Just keep separate for now, moving Aspen away from Bonnie. I don't think you will have too long to wait, nit need to avoid stress to Bonnie now at all costs. Also, for future relations, you need to stop escalating so they hate each other on site. When I first started breeding I put my foundation queen in a peaceful room, other cats staying downstairs. Very bad timing, I then got another adult queen, who was very timid and hiding downstairs. As first queen always hot on with everyone for cuddles, though she was boss, I very stupidly put the timid new girl in the quiet room with expectant mum, who went mental. Lesson learnt, but damage done, and they always hated each other from then on, even though both would snuggle all the others, and new girl even spent more time cuddling girl I kept than her own mum did.


----------



## belleboris

Thank you she is in my bedroom now , her food and water and litter box are all in here as of now , do I bring the draws she like in also ? There in the bathroom arm . 
Pics of her cuts Dose she need the vets to put something on them ?? 
And will she need to stay here all the time or can she come curl up at night and watch tv with me ? 
They are both v calm at night


----------



## Tigermoon

In the final week I always separate the expectant Queen from my other cats and I don't allow any contact at all until the kittens have gone. However not everyone follows this strict a separation policy.

I wouldn't bring the draws in. She had settled with the fairtrade box so I'd just leave her with that. Keep the litter tray as far away from it as you can.


----------



## Cassyj

I wouldn't take her to the vets it might stress her out I don't think they look to bad just keep an eye on her


----------



## Catharinem

I wouldn't take to the vet, more danger from stress than scratches at the moment, and doesn't look like any punctures from bites. If she will let you, bathe in warm salty water.
She needs to have a safe space to nest and get used to it, if she's happy in your bedroom that's great. If she wants to follow-on for cuddle in front of TV that's fine, but don't carry her out of the room just to be with you to keep an eye on her if that makes sense. Best is to have you around, and if she joins you that's great, but as you can't spend the next few days in your bedroom it's better for her to be alone in your room by choice, rather than moved from room to room if she doesn't want to be. Basically, have her in your bedroom unless she chooses to follow you to be with you, but don't leave her wandering from room to room. Personally, if she is happy in her box I'd leave the drawers for now, you don't want her trying to give birth in several places, and maybe first kittens get cold if she starts labour in one box or drawer and then moves. Or running around with kittens in her mouth trying to decide which is the best nest to put them in.
If she does want to join you for TV, put Aspen away in another room, you don't know when Labour will start,and they've already had one run in so could be stressful to both.


----------



## Catharinem

Tigermoon said:


> In the final week I always separate the expectant Queen from my other cats and I don't allow any contact at all until the kittens have gone. However not everyone follows this strict a separation policy.


This wouldn't work for my girls as they actively seek each others company (apart from the one queen who I introduced at the wrong time, but she didn't hold pregnancies and was spayed). My other girls will get out of their boxes and fetch one of the others for company/paw holding, and if I separate they pace and cry, even if labour has started. However, Bonnie and Aspen are not related, and are only just getting used to each other, so separation won't stress them. It's better to separate unless the mum is wanting her companion, and Bonnie isn't.


----------



## catcoonz

Don't stress, it is perfectly normal for cats to fight when the expectant mum is so close to birth.
you do need to keep them separate now.


----------



## belleboris

Thanks all  she's tucked into my room and sunbathing on my window ledge atm .
Aspen is happy to sleep in the kitchen in her donut so won't mind if I shut the door for a while with her in it .
Bonnie is not flinching when I touch it and I've cleaned with salt water , there is no biting they just have a bitch fight , they sit and bat each other so it's never bothers me as its not bad just settling in finding roles and aspen has been nocked from top dog but both girls however crap start they have had are both big personalities .


----------



## blade100

Bonnie is so pretty, I never really liked the look of hairless cats even though I've had hairless rats  but Bonnie is gorgeous I love her markings. She's changed my view on hairless cats now. 

I hope all goes smoothly for her, she looks huge! 
I'm sure all will settle once she's given birth between your other girl and Bonnie. 
You never know Bonnie may want aspen as a nanny


----------



## ger1000

Bonnie looks so lovely and happy. Probably safer to keep Aspen away from Bonnie when the kittens are born too, in case she stresses her or tries to hurt the kittens or anything, Also be careful the kittens can't fall into her drinking water and drown.


----------



## Erenya

I'm so glad she seems so happy  I am joining the kitten watch club right now


----------



## belleboris

I'll put marbles in the water when and if we get to that 
Aspen is asleep on the sofa and Bonnie is asleep on my windowsill , now another q ( when will these end ) Bonnie is asleep on the sil and it's nice here she's lay in the sun , dose she need cream on ? My bedroom curtain is normally shut with the windows a jar .


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> I'll put marbles in the water when and if we get to that
> Aspen is asleep on the sofa and Bonnie is asleep on my windowsill , now another q ( when will these end ) Bonnie is asleep on the sil and it's nice here she's lay in the sun , dose she need cream on ? My bedroom curtain is normally shut with the windows a jar .


No, don't put anything on her that she may lick off and swallow.


----------



## Elsiebea

Do you know who the father might be? Is he a normal moggy or hairless like Bonnie?


----------



## belleboris

He's the breeders sphynx male so these will be sphynx babies ,


----------



## huckybuck

I wasn't particularly a fan of hairless cats either (especially having semi long-hairs) but since "meeting" Bonnie and also @Pear's Moth I have totally changed my opinion. I think they are utterly adorable and stunning to look at! I am watching this thread with all the excitement of Christmas.


----------



## Ali71

Me too @huckybuck. I was lucky enough to meet and have a stroke of a couple of Sphynx kitties at the National Pet Show in May. They are really lovely, like a little warm nectarine


----------



## loroll1991

Me too @blade100 @huckybuck and @Ali71 but since being introduced to Bonnie and Moth (@Pear) my opinion has completely changed! Such beautiful, kind natured kitties.

Still anxiously waiting for the update we're all waiting for eeeeee  xx


----------



## Erenya

how is the lovely Bonnie today


----------



## Soozi

Bonnie and Moth are adorable I must admit I have also been converted! :Kiss xxx


----------



## belleboris

She's still keeping these babies inside , her teats are filling with milk as her underbelly is getting squidgy .
Lots of digging going on and her food intake is a bit slower I think


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> She's still keeping these babies inside , her teats are filling with milk as her underbelly is getting squidgy .
> Lots of digging going on and her food intake is a bit slower I think


Ooooh wow! it could be any day! I'm so excited! Hat off to you Hun you're an amazing midwife! Bless you!XXX


----------



## Catharinem

Bet you're excited!


----------



## Jesthar

Another lurker popping up to give you a *hug* and wish you all well  Such a little sweetie, and well done to you on how you've handled all this!


----------



## MoggyBaby

Moggy Towers is checking in every couple of hours to see how things are going. Wishing you both well and really, really hoping that the gorgeous little Bonnie has an easy & straightforward birth.

xxx


----------



## sarahecp

So pleased Bonnie is doing well  

You're doing fantasticly, still keeping everything crossed here for Bonnie and her babies. 

I've always had a soft spot for the Sphynx and think they are beautiful and even more so in real life. First one I met was at the London Pet Show a few years ago, I was mesmerised and couldn't wait to give the little one a stroke and some fuss, she felt like a warm peach and was a little fuss pot. 

A house that backs on to my garden have 2, they sit at the window watching the boys and I play in the garden, I always give them a wave


----------



## Pear

I have been lurking every day hoping for news I feel like I may need to send you a congratulations balloon when this is all over I am that emotional involved in this thread.

I simple adore the Sphynx breed Moth Cat coming home with me was a spontaneous opportunity I though it would be many years before I had the honour of looking after such a beautiful quirky creature I think they feel like warm velvet.

Hugs and kisses ♡♡♡


----------



## loroll1991

So pleased Bonnie is doing well, my heart skipped a beat when I saw you had updated the thread! I am anxiously waiting, but very excited! xxx


----------



## belleboris

Thank you all this waiting is killing me now ! 
I hate having no defanatley date apart from the scanner saying last Sunday . 
It's still leaving me a bit worried I mean how long before its to long ? 
She's still happily and puring away 
I'm wondering what colours they will be


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Thank you all this waiting is killing me now !
> I hate having no defanatley date apart from the scanner saying last Sunday .
> It's still leaving me a bit worried I mean how long before its to long ?
> She's still happily and puring away
> I'm wondering what colours they will be


Hun if you are in the least bit worried or see any changes in behaviour or otherwise just call the Vet and ask advice! I'm sure it will be Ok and probably quite soon now! Purring can mean she is in a bit of pain as well as being happy so keep an eye on that. XXX


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Thank you all this waiting is killing me now !
> I hate having no defanatley date apart from the scanner saying last Sunday .
> It's still leaving me a bit worried I mean how long before its to long ?
> She's still happily and puring away
> I'm wondering what colours they will be


Agree with @Soozi hun! If you're worried at all, just give the vet a call and they can advise you! I have a feeling it won't be much longer now! We have everything crossed here xx


----------



## belleboris

Ty both , I'm not yet , just wondering how long is to long to wait .
She purs when we stroke her as she's nudging your hand so I don't think she's in pain , her food intake as been a lot slower today so I'm sure it will be soon ,...... Hopes


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Ty both , I'm not yet , just wondering how long is to long to wait .
> She purs when we stroke her as she's nudging your hand so I don't think she's in pain , her food intake as been a lot slower today so I'm sure it will be soon ,...... Hopes


I tell you, I am so anxious and excited at the same for you and Bonnie, so I can't imagine how you must be feeling! 

Just remember you're doing a fantastic job! xxx


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Ty both , I'm not yet , just wondering how long is to long to wait .
> She purs when we stroke her as she's nudging your hand so I don't think she's in pain , her food intake as been a lot slower today so I'm sure it will be soon ,...... Hopes


In the wild, cats would have to eat loads before they got huge because imagine hunting mice etc when you are the size of Bonnie now. This is why she is not eating quite so much plus, of course, the lack of room in there.


----------



## catcoonz

I think you still have 3 days to wait.


----------



## belleboris

Weekend is good


----------



## Azriel391

Checking rathercthan lurkingvand wishing Bonnie and you all the very very best , hugs whilst you wait and smooches for Bonnie xx


----------



## Erenya

I think.... Thursday and 4 kittens


----------



## catcoonz

I think Friday night and 4 kittens. x

With my queens when their milk comes in I have a 3 day wait and they always seem to start labour 1am.

Don't worry, she looks well.

You can also tell if you feel her nose it will go from warm to cold, then I find that's stage 1 of labour but you could still be waiting 24 hours.


----------



## Forester

Yet another member here who is waiting with bated breath. Hoping that Bonnie will have an easy time producing strong healthy babies.


----------



## Matrod

I think we're all on full on kitten watch now! :Nailbiting:Nailbiting:Nailbiting


----------



## moggie14

Topping up the positive vibes for Bonnie's labour - hope all goes well and checking in regularly xx


----------



## Soozi

Matrod said:


> I think we're all on full on kitten watch now! :Nailbiting:Nailbiting:Nailbiting


We certainly are hun!
@catcoonz Thank you so much for passing on such valuble advice to belleboris! She is doing so well!xxx


----------



## catcoonz

Im just glad Bonnie has a lovely owner.
The first time kittening is a very worrying time for anybody, let alone somebody who had the shock of finding their pet already pregnant.

We are all here for you and Bonnie, I am very excited to see the newborn photograph's, without upsetting Bonnie of course.


----------



## mrs phas

this thread has dragged me out of general and dog chat everyday
as i said I was so jealous when you got Bonnie
and now
shes so happy and settled she's going to kitten, something shed never done at her breeders [i know it wasnt planned for her to be pregnant but i think youve done a wonderful job]

Cant wait to see baby pictures and im wishing you both all the luck and love in the world xx


----------



## MCWillow

Good luck babe - you're doing brilliantly - another one checking for updates on a regular basis!  xx


----------



## belleboris

Awwww thank you all  she'll we do a guess the day and number of kittens ? Anyone correct can name one ?
I think her milk is there as the tears look full under I'm tubbish at explaining .
Should sticky this so anyone with an unexpected litter can see all this amazing info


----------



## MCWillow

I reckon Saturday and 5 kittens


----------



## catcoonz

you don't need to be good at explaining, we know what you mean.

ohhhhh......... I have 11 names (don't worry Bonnie wont have 11 babies).

My guess is Friday evening and 4 kittens, you could have Halloween babies.


----------



## Blue-BearUK

Sunday - 3 kittens :Cat:Cat:Cat


----------



## mrs phas

late sat night/very early hours sun morning and 3


----------



## buffie

Have to add myself to the list ,have been reading but havnt posted ,hope it all goes well for you and Bonnie.
Looks like being settled,happy and relaxed has worked wonders everything crossed for an easy trouble free birth xx


----------



## loroll1991

I think Friday and 3 bubbahs!!  xx


----------



## belleboris

Anyone think the scan is correct and 2 ? And I've got a feeling that Friday when there is madness going on outside will be the day


----------



## MCWillow

I know I guessed Saturday - but if they arrive on Friday you should name one Sylvia (or any shortened version  ) after me nan - its her birthday on friday  heheh


----------



## Soozi

You're on Hun! I say Friday and 3 kittens! xxx


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> Anyone think the scan is correct and 2 ? And I've got a feeling that Friday when there is madness going on outside will be the day


She looks massive for just 2, I'm guessing 5 or 6 depending on kittens' size.
Do you live near neighbours, any chance of trick or treaters? If so suggest a little table of offerings outside your door, hung in bags from your trees etc, and a note saying quiet please.


----------



## huckybuck

I'm going to go with Thursday and Two.

If we're correct are we allowed to help name them?


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> Anyone think the scan is correct and 2 ? And I've got a feeling that Friday when there is madness going on outside will be the day


Having looked back at those photos of her, unless she is teeny tiny, I just cannot believe that there is only 2 kittens there. I would say _at least_ 4. Timing ... hmm, if she's showing less interest in food then it could be within the next couple of days. My girls usually eat almost nothing during the day of the night they are going to give birth (if that makes sense).


----------



## belleboris

Yep whoever guesses and is the first one to have said that day and number gets to name a baby  ( please something I can actually shout for food without raising eyebrows )

Trick or treat is sorted my daughter and her friend are setting up a table just at the front garden so no sound , she's in my room that's in the back and I will put the radio on low ( she has it on quiet all day )


----------



## Catharinem

huckybuck said:


> I'm going to go with Thursday and Two.
> 
> If we're correct are we allowed to help name them?


Tortie mum, if there's a ginger boy on 31st can he be Pumpkin?


----------



## belleboris

Cool name  my daughter wants Luna or orian for one of them


----------



## Erenya

Copernicus!!

or Tesla 



what... i like science


----------



## belleboris

I've no idea what colour kittens will be with a tortie mum and black dad


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> Yep whoever guesses and is the first one to have said that day and number gets to name a baby  ( please something I can actually shout for food without raising eyebrows)


Thursday night/early hours Friday, 5 kittens.


----------



## buffie

belleboris said:


> Anyone think the scan is correct and 2 ?










Not a snowflake in hells chance there must be at least 4 little baby peaches in that tum


----------



## belleboris

Some Bonnie vid spam , were staying awake for a bit her belly is all over the place and she's breathing /puring quicker


----------



## Tweety1977

Ooooooooh, am excited now on case this is it!

No idea what cats do pre or during birth (or any other animal for that matter). But acting different to normal surely warrants a bit of excitement. Am so looking forward to pictures of these babies.

I reckon there will be three, just the one hiding on the scan


----------



## Pear

Ooo I like this game.
I also vote Friday night, 3 kittens and second your daughters naming choice of Luna.

If there was a second girl Flora or Ada are very pretty.


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Some Bonnie vid spam , were staying awake for a bit her belly is all over the place and she's breathing /puring quicker


She may be entering the first stage of labour. Have the babies dropped since your last pic? The purring during labour is a very distinctive sound and they stop during each contraction and then start again..

She could have tortie or black girls and black or red boys. (Blue as well if they both carry dilute.) Does she have the white spotting gene as well?


----------



## moggie14

Hope Bonnie is OK this morning! I'm going to guess 3 - can a scan really miss several kittens? I'm also predicting she will give birth today! Good Luck! xxx


----------



## blade100

I'm going to say today and 3.


----------



## blade100

moggie14 said:


> Hope Bonnie is OK this morning! I'm going to guess 3 - can a scan really miss several kittens? I'm also predicting she will give birth today! Good Luck! xxx


Lol I've just seen your post  ok I say today and 4.


----------



## Burmesemum

Haven't posted on here for such a long time but been following this thread every day!


----------



## lymorelynn

Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


----------



## Matrod

lymorelynn said:


> Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


How exciting! Hope it's a very uneventful birth for Gracie :Cat xx


----------



## belleboris

lymorelynn said:


> Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


Ahhhhh so pleased for you  can we see pics when mums happy ? 
And no kittens , she must be uncomfortable bless her .
Her belly has dropped poor girl waddles about but is happy


----------



## Matrod

So my guess for Bonnie is Friday night, 4 kittens


----------



## idris

lymorelynn said:


> Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


Good luck I hope it's uneventful and smooth ,exciting times x


----------



## catcoonz

when did Bonnies belly drop?


----------



## sarahecp

lymorelynn said:


> Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


Hope all goes well for Gracie and her babies xx


----------



## Susan M

lymorelynn said:


> Hope Bonnie is okay his morning. My wait is over - Gracie giving birth now. Two kittens here so far.


Aww congrats Lynn and Gracie! Hop all continues to go well xx

Your turn now Bonnie!


----------



## JaimeandBree

@lymorelynn hope all is going smoothly for Gracie, can't wait for pics of babies xxx

@belleboris I'm sticking my neck out and saying Bonnie will give birth tonight, 3 kittens


----------



## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> when did Bonnies belly drop?


Would say over the last 48h 
She's walking different to compensate and is cleaning herself and anything near her with great care  
I have a lovley cat breath smooth face


----------



## blade100

You posted a pic of Bonnies belly but you put it in another persons thread "another cat sexing thread"


----------



## belleboris

Opps ! Bless them I'll go say sorry I did wonder where it had gone , I have no idea how that happenend


----------



## Paddypaws

I am another one 'lurking' and desperate for updates.
Being with a cat having kittens is just one of the most marvellous things ever and I am terribly jealous.
I am also completely won over to the breed after watching this thread and those by @Pear


----------



## belleboris

This was the Bonnie belly I was trying to post here , 
Could not get a good video last night and the kittens were bounding about in there


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> View attachment 249661
> This was the Bonnie belly I was trying to post here ,
> Could not get a good video last night and the kittens were bounding about in there


Crikey!! She's about to pop bless her little heart


----------



## loroll1991

Soozi said:


> You're on Hun! I say Friday and 3 kittens! xxx


Same as me  if we are correct @Soozi can we come to a name decision together? hehe!


----------



## idris

I have a feeling your about to be overrun . More than 2 less than 5 


Erenya said:


> Copernicus!!
> 
> or Tesla
> 
> what... i like science


A girl after my own heart 
How about Archimedes or Sir Isaac


----------



## vivien

I hope all is going well with Bonnie. She is huge bless her. I will look in later to see how she is getting on. I have new glasses and am having trouble getting used to the weight and strength. The words keep going into one another. Oooooh I am getting excited for you. 

Viv xx


----------



## QOTN

With milk arriving and kittens dropped some time already, she should not have long to go now. We usually say maximum of 72 hours from milk coming in but cats are very good at proving humans wrong.


----------



## Soozi

Bless her she's like a little balloon:Jawdrop! Can't wait to see the babies! :Cat:Cat:Catxxx


----------



## Soozi

loroll1991 said:


> Same as me  if we are correct @Soozi can we come to a name decision together? hehe!


LOL!!! I'm now beginning to think at least 4! but I'll stick with you on 3 Hun! xxx


----------



## Dumpling

She's huge! It can't be long now  I think friday and four little ones!


----------



## MoggyBaby

Oh my!!!! She's like a little pumpkin with feet!!!! Bless her little fuzzy bits.  

I'm going with 2 babies and lots of fluid (my mum looked liked she was havig twins when preggy with my sister - it was all fluid!) and I reckon she'll start Thursday night about 11.30pm because cats are SO DAMN GOOD at being contrary wee buggers!!!! :Woot


----------



## huckybuck

MoggyBaby said:


> Oh my!!!! She's like a little pumpkin with feet!!!! Bless her little fuzzy bits.
> 
> I'm going with 2 babies and lots of fluid (my mum looked liked she was havig twins when preggy with my sister - it was all fluid!) and I reckon she'll start Thursday night about 11.30pm because cats are SO DAMN GOOD at being contrary wee buggers!!!! :Woot


I'm with you 2 on Thursday


----------



## Forester

I'm going for Thursday and three - little whoppers.

I haven't got a clue really , just want to hear that Mum and Bubs are all doing well.


----------



## BFGThatsme

Another one who has been reading and lurking, I think she has landed on her paws with you and keeping everything crossed for a healthy birth. I took on an ex-queen recently and think you have coped far better than I would have! 

Guessing Thursday/Friday at midnight and 3 bundles.


----------



## lazydays

i think she will go while you're sleeping tonight and youll wake to 3 babies tomorrow morning


----------



## Jeano1471

Well if were all guessing day an number of babies il say friday an i think 5 kittens xxx


----------



## popcornsmum

Aww bless her!!! I think early hours of tomorrow morning and 4.


----------



## silvi

Been watching and lurking myself.
Hope everything goes okay...can't be long now!


----------



## belleboris

Been chatting on a sphynx site and posted pics of Bonnie , one lady has said she's not got milk in so it's going to be a bit yet ? 
Do they all get spongy bellies of milk before kittens arrive ? I carnt see her being this big for much longer ,


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Been chatting on a sphynx site and posted pics of Bonnie , one lady has said she's not got milk in so it's going to be a bit yet ?
> Do they all get spongy bellies of milk before kittens arrive ? I carnt see her being this big for much longer ,


You can usually tell if the milk is coming in because you will get a little drop appear at the tip if you gently squeeze right at the base of the nipple between thumb and finger.

Some girls don't produce much milk until the kittens start suckling.


----------



## Jellypi3

Another lurker joining in for the ride


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> You can usually tell if the milk is coming in because you will get a little drop appear at the tip if you gently squeeze right at the base of the nipple between thumb and finger.
> 
> Some girls don't produce much milk until the kittens start suckling.


Thank you  she likes a belly rub and all feels dry , I don't mind if she's not due for a few days but if she dosnt have babies by Monday I'll start to panic I think


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

I'm going to go with Fri night, three kittens! I'm 37 weeks gone myself, feel like I'm on the same watch here lol! With only one though!


----------



## Jellypi3

Bluefluffybirmans said:


> I'm going to go with Fri night, three kittens! I'm 37 weeks gone myself, feel like I'm on the same watch here lol! With only one though!


Ahh crazy! Good luck! I've still got 3 months!!!


----------



## Lulus mum

Nothing to add but just wanted to wish you all well and to say WELL DONE to you after all the hard work you have put in.
You have many experienced people on here who have supported you and will be there all the way-that is what is BRILLIANT about this forum family.
HUGS 
Maureen


----------



## Torin.

Damn, I saw 5 new pages since I last looked and wrongly assumed there were babies. Patience...


----------



## Forester

Torin said:


> Damn, I saw 5 new pages since I last looked and wrongly assumed there were babies. Patience...


You are not alone. I made the same mistake earlier on. I was concerned that I'd missed the action.


----------



## belleboris

I so wish I new the date they mated for a better idea .
If scanner is correct she's due to pop any day , if vets are right it's another week .
She carnt get much larger she won't be able to walk , I allready need to clean her bum and foof for her


----------



## Elsiebea

I think early hours of Thursday and 2 kittens :Cat:Cat


----------



## Elsiebea

But whatever happens and whenever it happens, I wish Bonnie all the best xxx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I so wish I new the date they mated for a better idea .
> If scanner is correct she's due to pop any day , if vets are right it's another week .
> She carnt get much larger she won't be able to walk , I allready need to clean her bum and foof for her


I think I might be more inclined to go with the scan as that shows whats actually going on in Bonnie's tummy! It's so exciting!xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Still hoping for Friday and 3 kittens  hehe.. But I do have a feeling that I am going to go to sleep and wake up to the notification I have been waiting for! I am so excited  xx


----------



## belleboris

Good idea what's going on in there haha you can see it !


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Good idea what's going on in there haha you can see it !


It says it is private hun  xx


----------



## belleboris

Hopefully not now


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Hopefully not now


Crikey!! They're doing somersaults in there ha ha :Joyful they're definitely ready to come into this world now, and clearly very impatient ! xx


----------



## Soozi

Is it the same as humans? Don't they go very still just before birth? Blimey they are having a game of footy in there! xxx


----------



## sarahecp

Bonnie has some very active babies in there   and don't think it's going to be long now. 

My prediction, she'll have them early hours Friday or Saturday morning and I think she'll have 3 or 4


----------



## vivien

Wow they are very energetic. I also don't think it will be long before they are born. I think maybe 3. 

Viv xx


----------



## catcoonz

Just watched the video, not sure if I can count 3 kittens, definitely count 2.


----------



## belleboris

the other side was moving away at the same time  
She's happy and relaxed sat on me atm with kittens still tucked up


----------



## belleboris




----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> the other side was moving away at the same time
> She's happy and relaxed sat on me atm with kittens still tucked up


Gracie's lot were very active like that on Tuesday :Cat


----------



## huckybuck

Well my flight to the Maldives was cancelled last night so I'm back home and hoping to go to Dubai instead tomorrow night. I'm a big believer in fate so come on kittens this has to be the reason I couldn't go lol!!


----------



## Soozi

Awww Bonnie you relax while you can! you will be busy with those babies when the arrive!:Kiss xxx


----------



## carly87

Lovely, if you'd like my number in case of difficulties, or if you just need moral support through the birth, drop me a message and I'll send it across. I'm working from home, so can take calls in the middle of the night if needs be with no fuss.


----------



## belleboris

Awww thank you , 
Sleeping is not easy atm as she's all over the place , mainly standing on my head and it hurts , she's a weighty little thing and super clumsy .


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Awww thank you ,
> Sleeping is not easy atm as she's all over the place , mainly standing on my head and it hurts , she's a weighty little thing and super clumsy .


I just shouted "OH MY GOD" and gave OH a heart attack when I saw you post on here!

Hehe cheeky little madam, I really don't think it's going to be much longer xx


----------



## Cazzer

Exciting and nerve racking times. Hope all goes well for you both


----------



## Catharinem

Anything happening? I said tonight /early tomorrow morning and 5 (no 6, no 5!). Hope I'm close. Not a good track record of betting, my first and only racing bet was on Desert Orchid to come in first 3 ( he didn't).


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well I was wrong! Any sign yet?


----------



## loroll1991

If it's tomorrow and 3 bubbah's I will eat my hat, I am terrible at bets ha ha


----------



## belleboris

No nothing happening  she's still a little football on twigs .
I hate not having a clue what to expect .


----------



## KCTT

Another one watching this thread with interest  I am so pleased that Bonnie has landed on her feet in a happy loving home and is getting the love and attention she deserves, well done and thankyou @belleboris


----------



## Matrod

I actually woke up at 2am this morning & checked this thread in case she'd gone into labour :Nailbiting!


----------



## Tigermoon

Well this is all getting rather exciting! I don't think you have long to wait now, I wouldn't be surprised if they put in an appearance in the early hours of the morning. I thought I could see 3 distinct wiggles in the video, if the other side was moving as well then I'd say she has 5 or 6 kittens lurking, as she looked fairly uniformly round in all your photos


----------



## blade100

I'm at work tonite so I'll be checking in later


----------



## belleboris

Omg she's running all over the house like a mental beast ! 
HOW is she shifting herself about so quick ??
Her belly has defantley dropped


----------



## huckybuck

Ooh gosh this could be it!!!


----------



## loroll1991

I think it's time! I've definitely lost the bet for tomorrow, as I think it may be sooner by the looks of things!!! Good luck beautiful Bonnie! xx


----------



## belleboris

Having a mental hour is a sign ? She's back on the sofa recovering lol .
And teats are bigger still but no milk


----------



## MoggyBaby

I'm off to bed now but, if this is Go - Go - Go then I wish you both all the luck in the world and hope the whole experience is stress free. xxx


----------



## huckybuck

Do cats have contractions like humans? Could she be having one and then resting before the next?


----------



## Blue-BearUK

No Bonnie. Stick to Sunday & 3 kitties like I originally said  
I want to name a baby! 
Keep checking updates  
Good luck to you both x


----------



## loroll1991

I just looked it up and apparently cats have contractions like humans?!

*Light Contractions in the First Stage*
_Fluffy will begin having light contractions in the first stage of labor. You may not notice the contractions because they don't result in straining early in the first stage, but you may be able to feel the movement of her kittens. Other signs that she's started this stage include restlessness and decrease in appetite. She may be in and out of her kittening box, trying to get comfortable at this stage. Fluffy may stay in this state for just a few hours or as long as 36 hours._
_source: http://pets.thenest.com/can-cats-contractions-first-stage-labor-11726.html_

This could be completely wrong, as google is a fair amount of the time, but hopefully one of our experience breeders can jump in and advise!!  xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh I reckon this could be it, sudden restlessness surely must be a sign?


----------



## loroll1991

JaimeandBree said:


> Oh I reckon this could be it, sudden restlessness surely must be a sign?


According to the link I just posted restlessness is the first stage


----------



## Matrod

Oh no! I was about to go to bed ! Hold out until the morning Bonnie! If this is pushing time though I wish you both huge good birthing vibes  xx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Having a mental hour is a sign ? She's back on the sofa recovering lol .
> And teats are bigger still but no milk


Will the milk come in after she has given birth Hun? That's what I would have thought but not sure! It' so exciting! I think it will be tonight or tomorrow! XXX


----------



## belleboris

She's eating normal still but still darting about excited .
I have no idea about the milk her under keeps getting bigger and she's cleaning herself all the time .


----------



## huckybuck

I don't think I can go to bed! If this is it I am lighting a candle and sending out positive wishes for a safe, easy swift birth and all strong healthy kittens xxx


----------



## Cookies mum

I think she will deliver Friday morning 6:30 3 girls and 2 boy kitts


----------



## kiara

Sending good luck your way. Im not a sphynx breeder but just a thought, could these babies need extra warmth due to being hairless? x


----------



## Reets

Aww bless her. If she is cleaning all the time and a little restless it does sound like it might be soon.
Its a long, long time since I have had a cat who has had kittens, she meowed a lot and was insistent on getting on the bed to have them, but was otherwise pretty normal right up until giving birth.

She was frightened though, she didn't know what was happening, and appreciated having someone close by, speaking softly to her during the birth (and gentle tummy rubs too, she always loved them!).

Good luck - I am sending vibes for everything to go very smoothly for dear Bonnie


----------



## JaimeandBree

I think it will be soon won't be surprised to wake up to kittens! If this is it as I will be going to bed soon then best of luck to you and Bonnie, hope it goes smoothly, the JB house send lots of good vibes and purrs xxx


----------



## Elsiebea

Oooeerr.. How exciting! :Cat


----------



## belleboris

@kiara she has a heat mat under her box and my house is always walm ( not that I like the heat as I worked outside for years)

I may go up to bed soon with her as I'm sleepy I'll get a vid one day of how I get woken about 10 x a night


----------



## loroll1991

I am going to bed now, but if it is tonight/early hours of tomorrow morning (please, please, please hehe ), good luck and hope all goes smoothly for Bonnie and babies! Without a doubt I will wake up during the night a lot of times to check for updates ha ha  Sending lots of positive vibes from our end! xxx


----------



## lymorelynn

If you can get her into her nest box see if she will lie quietly - I've had girls who liked to have a paw held throughout. Cats do have contractions and you will be able to tell if that is what is happening especially if you have had children yourself. None of my girls have had milk until kittens are born.


----------



## belleboris

She's now settled on my lap and quite happy , just someone on a sphynx page commented that she's not ready as she had no milk from the pic of her lay on her back ,
Yep I have 4 children two teens and toddler twins !! 
I still remember the contractions well babies are moving and her belly dose not feel tense . 
It's nice having a warm peach attached to you most of the time


----------



## MCWillow

Awww bless her!! Wishing all good luck to you both!

(But she has to wait til Saturday so one can be called Sylvia (if she has 5  )


----------



## Alisonfoy

Another lurker here, sending positive vibes to Bonnie, her huge tummy and her unborn kitties. Sounds as if her time is very near now!


----------



## blade100

Just dropping in, hope you both have a settled night.


----------



## belleboris

No kittens yet but I need 10 min to have a cup of tea downstairs 
She's defantley unsettled tonight as she's not been to sleep for more than 30 min up and down , and waking me up , my face is a little sore from being trod on and pawed at so using aspen as a pillow for 20 min


----------



## blade100

Oh dear poor girl. I wonder if today's the day! I hope u manage to get some sleep.


----------



## idris

I can't sleep so I thought I'd check . I reckon she's just as desperate to get them out if they are pummeling her innards . I know I was. Hope it's today x good luck


----------



## Ali71

Thinking of you and wishing lots of love and luck to you and Bonnie xx


----------



## sarahecp

Just checking in  Poor Bonnie, she does sound like she's had enough now bless her, being so unsettled sounds like she could be ready to have those babies very soon. 

Keeping everything crossed that's possible to cross that all goes well. Thinking of you both xxx


----------



## MissPink

Another lurker here just checking in. I hope it's today and everything goes well


----------



## vivien

Morning. It does sound a little like Bonnie is in early labour. I will try and look in later. Sending lots of positive vibes that Bonnie has an easy labour

Viv xx


----------



## Tigermoon

I checked in at 2am this morning just to see if anything was afoot!

You may be lucky and Bonnie will have her kittens at a convenient hour, sadly most like to have them around about midnight! 

As she is so restless she may be in the early stages. Is she digging in her box and sitting in there quietly for long periods at all? If she suddenly sleeps for around an hour keep a vigilant eye on her as Queens will often sleep just before active labour starts.


----------



## cava14 una

Hope all goes well and the babies are here soon. I think 4 around 10.00 pm tonight


----------



## Paddypaws

well my bet has always been on 5 kittens on Friday so it looks like I am in with a chance!

( this thread is making me unbearably kitten broody! )


----------



## Carzana

newbie but wanted to send my best for Bonnie xx


----------



## lymorelynn

Just checking in but assume there's no news yet?


----------



## loroll1991

Just checking in, how is Bonnie this morning? xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well after thinking about Bonnie just before I went to bed, I dreamt I gave to triplets!  A girl and two boys.

I reckon it's a sign, I did say Bonnie would have three 

Any news????


----------



## belleboris

Sorry no news , just a super bad sleep , 
She's ok in herself and happy to be petted but just won't settle for long ,


----------



## GingerNinja

I'm at work but had to check in quickly :Cat

I hope that it is today (and at a reasonable hour) and that all goes well xxx

Good luck Bonnie!


----------



## carly87

It's really not going to be long now. Probably within the next 12 hours or so.


----------



## belleboris

And no digging in the box but she dose dig on my bed and her pet bed mat.
Ive got my dad on call incase for the weekend , as I don't drive .
Need to ask someone to stay over incase the worst happened


----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> And no digging in the box but she dose dig on my bed and her pet bed mat.
> Ive got my dad on call incase for the weekend , as I don't drive .
> Need to ask someone to stay over incase the worst happened


Good idea - cats don't like to do things at convenient times  However I do hope Bonnie has her kittens very soon and without any complications.


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> And no digging in the box but she dose dig on my bed and her pet bed mat.
> Ive got my dad on call incase for the weekend , as I don't drive .
> Need to ask someone to stay over incase the worst happened


She may decide to have the kittens in your bed so be prepared! You can make a cosy nest for her but she will go where she feels the safest! Oh it's so exciting I'm still with @loroll1991 3 babies by tonight. Hugs! xxx


----------



## belleboris

My bed has a waterproof sheet under it as aspen will pee if she gets in there still .
Sheets wash so she can have them where she wants .
Can I move them after ?


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> My bed has a waterproof sheet under it as aspen will pee if she gets in there still .
> Sheets wash so she can have them where she wants .
> Can I move them after ?


You certainly would not want to leave them on your bed. Newborn kittens can be surprisingly mobile if not confined. Kittens have died falling from that sort of height especially if they land on something hard. Usually if you move them to a better place the mother will accept it but, if not you would need to put padding on the floor all round the bed.


----------



## belleboris

I have a huge kingsize bed if for some reason she dose keep taking them up there I'll make it safe , the kids have a few 2ring blow up pools I'll put one under the sheets to make a secure nest .
Hoping she goes in her box .


----------



## belleboris

Look how relaxed she is


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Look how relaxed she is
> View attachment 249917


She's looking great! Bless her! Are the babies still moving about a lot? ummyxxx


----------



## QOTN

This pic has made me worry about the babies' claws on a bare belly. That was a concern after the only two caesareans I ever had. The kittens made the girls' shaved area sore when they were kneading to bring the milk down. It might be worth asking your sphynx breeders if there is ever a similar problem with their girls.


----------



## huckybuck

Tigermoon said:


> If she suddenly sleeps for around an hour keep a vigilant eye on her as Queens will often sleep just before active labour starts.


Ooohhh…

Well I missed my prediction lol!! Please have them today Bonnie as I've a flight to catch later tonight!!!


----------



## loroll1991

Soozi said:


> She may decide to have the kittens in your bed so be prepared! You can make a cosy nest for her but she will go where she feels the safest! Oh it's so exciting I'm still with @loroll1991 3 babies by tonight. Hugs! xxx


@Soozi I think we have a good chance it may be today and hopefully it's the 3 hehe  xx



belleboris said:


> Look how relaxed she is
> View attachment 249917


So beautiful and so content! xx


----------



## sarahecp

belleboris said:


> Look how relaxed she is
> View attachment 249917


Aww Bonnie :Joyful

She looks very relaxed bless her


----------



## belleboris

I'll post it up on the page I'm on see what they say about bare bellys.
Babies are still moving about I was watching them while she was rolling about .


----------



## Summ3rain

Another lurker here - wishing you and Bonnie all the best. Keeping my fingers crossed for a nice uncomplicated birth with happy healthy kittens xx


----------



## Soozi

QOTN said:


> This pic has made me worry about the babies' claws on a bare belly. That was a concern after the only two caesareans I ever had. The kittens made the girls' shaved area sore when they were kneading to bring the milk down. It might be worth asking your sphynx breeders if there is ever a similar problem with their girls.


Good point! It might be best to just snip just the very tips of the kittens front paws to avoid scratching Bonnie's tummy. Be very careful doing this though. xxx


----------



## belleboris

I have some clippers from my boys , I've asked on the sphynx page but no reply yet


----------



## belleboris

And is this ok for the kittens ? 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151587200571


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

I still reckon I'm in for a chance with my prediction of tonight and three kittens! I love how relaxed she is!


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I have some clippers from my boys , I've asked on the sphynx page but no reply yet


I am hoping they will say sphynx have tougher skin than ordinary cats and it isn't a problem because I would worry about trying to tip such tiny claws. It is so long ago I cannot remember what I did to solve the problem and finding my 1993 or 2003 diaries could be difficult.


----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> And is this ok for the kittens ?
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151587200571


It isn't a complete food. I usually start mine with something like Nature's Menu of HiLife kitten but don't worry you've got a few weeks before you need to think about anything like that. Do you have any kitten milk replacer and bottles etc. just in case?


----------



## belleboris

No not yet , the lady down the road has packs in her store and the 24hr vets is down the road so it's not an issue to get them if needed .

Bonnie lands on me all the time and her feet are a funny shape compared to aspens almost like super stocky thick pads and she's never scratched me or herself when scratching so wondering if there built to cope with the lack of fur


----------



## vivien

Just looked in to see how Bonnie is. She does look very relaxed bless her . How are you holding up. Are you ready for your midwife duties?  

Viv xx


----------



## belleboris

I'm sleepy , v sleepy ! This waiting is trying .
She now has a full underbelly under her swollen nipples so I take it this is the milk starting to produce ?


----------



## blade100

Gosh she's holding on to them isn't she :Bag


----------



## CKins

belleboris said:


> Look how relaxed she is
> View attachment 249917


I'm another one following your progress from 'the shadows', but this picture was too much. She is so gorgeous and looks so content with you. Oh and I so want to kiss her massive baby belly.

I'll be thinking of you both over the weekend!


----------



## QOTN

I have just checked the beginning of this thread. The first time you mention feeling the kittens moving was 16th October. If that was 7 weeks into the pregnancy, you could have to wait until at least Sunday.


----------



## Soozi

QOTN said:


> I have just checked the beginning of this thread. The first time you mention feeling the kittens moving was 16th October. If that was 7 weeks into the pregnancy, you could have to wait until at least Sunday.


LOL!!! Don't say that! :Jawdrop


----------



## mrs phas

4 new pages got me so excited 
Bonnie cat youre like velcro inside and out keeping hold of them til last minute 

Im still on for late sat/early hours of sun


----------



## QOTN

Soozi said:


> LOL!!! Don't say that! :Jawdrop


Patience is a virtue!

Bonnie has no idea of the frustration she is causing.


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> I have just checked the beginning of this thread. The first time you mention feeling the kittens moving was 16th October. If that was 7 weeks into the pregnancy, you could have to wait until at least Sunday.


That's the first time I felt for any movement properly and could feel gurgling and flicks so could have been happening days before but I didn't feel .
Wonder how long we will be waiting ? 
The beauty of her being naked is I can see everything , her nipples pink then get puffy and more so today she looks like she has a gel insert under her skin .

She's happy and in no sign of distress and kittens are wiggling after everything she's been through so it's the best outcome so far that could have been


----------



## Squeaks

I keep checking in and am waiting with baited breath for news of little fur(less) babies! But also just wanted to say I am so happy for you both that she's made it this far after everything she's been through. I think it is a testament to how happy and relaxed she feels with you and I am thrilled for you both.


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> That's the first time I felt for any movement properly and could feel gurgling and flicks so could have been happening days before but I didn't feel .
> Wonder how long we will be waiting ?
> The beauty of her being naked is I can see everything , her nipples pink then get puffy and more so today she looks like she has a gel insert under her skin .
> 
> *She's happy and in no sign of distress* and kittens are wiggling after everything she's been through so it's the best outcome so far that could have been


I do think the nakedness emphasises her size.

With luck she will have no distress whatever. She shipped the previous kittens because presumably there was something wrong with them. This litter seems to be very normal so far.


----------



## blade100

I think Sunday morning she will have them and 4.


----------



## Blue-BearUK

QOTN said:


> I have just checked the beginning of this thread. The first time you mention feeling the kittens moving was 16th October. If that was 7 weeks into the pregnancy, you could have to wait until at least Sunday.


Whoop whoop. Good news for me. I'll start thinking of names


----------



## buffie

Still reading and keeping everything crossed that the little peachlets arrive soon x


----------



## moggie14

Been at work all day with no access to PF so just checking in. So pleased to hear how well and relaxed Bonnie is, fingers crossed you won't have to wait til Sunday xx


----------



## popcornsmum

I can't believe how big her belly looks! Bless her!!! I'm so excited for you!


----------



## Carzana

QOTN said:


> This pic has made me worry about the babies' claws on a bare belly. That was a concern after the only two caesareans I ever had. The kittens made the girls' shaved area sore when they were kneading to bring the milk down. It might be worth asking your sphynx breeders if there is ever a similar problem with their girls.


i know im not a cat but im feeding my daughter still and i dont have furry boobs, her nails hurt often but boobs (human ones anyway) are quite hardy. sorry of this is out of place It just made me lol.


----------



## belleboris

Carzana said:


> i know im not a cat but im feeding my daughter still and i dont have furry boobs, her nails hurt often but boobs (human ones anyway) are quite hardy. sorry of this is out of place It just made me lol.


I fed the twins and got scratches a lot but nothing that did damage .
Haha I work at home making fiddle necklaces to help stop this now Not sure I could invent anything that works for kittens


----------



## Carzana

belleboris said:


> I fed the twins and got scratches a lot but nothing that did damage .
> Haha I work at home making fiddle necklaces to help stop this now Not sure I could invent anything that works for kittens


Phew, i was worried people would think i was weird for comparing it! you'd need one for each nipple lol!


----------



## QOTN

Carzana said:


> i know im not a cat but im feeding my daughter still and i dont have furry boobs, her nails hurt often but boobs (human ones anyway) are quite hardy. sorry of this is out of place It just made me lol.


I have to try to remember over 45 years ago but I don't recall my son kneading like kittens do, thank goodness. Kittens cannot retract their claws and they have *points! *Plus humans tend not to have the same squabbling over teats. A large litter of kittens can be terrible for fighting right from the day they are born.


----------



## loroll1991

QOTN said:


> I have to try to remember over 45 years ago but I don't recall my son kneading like kittens do, thank goodness. Kittens cannot retract their claws and they have *points! *Plus humans tend not to have the same squabbling over teats. A large litter of kittens can be terrible for fighting right from the day they are born.


No experience with babies, and this could be slightly different but Milo has a blanket that he suckles on and when he does it he kneads on my leg, and I have to say it is quite painful! But I cannot recall it leaving any marks or scratches! But baring in mind Milo is a 7 month old so probably has a lot longer claws than the newborns will! X


----------



## QOTN

I really did not expect my concern for Bonnie's naked belly to trigger so much disbelief. Anybody who cannot imagine what tiny kittens' claws are like could experience the effect by jabbing themselves with 10 needles. Presumably they are born unable to retract their claws so they can hang on effectively to things whenever they feel insecure. This is one of the reasons we always suggest a material such as vetbed for bedding because that will not catch their claws like towels or similar loose weave material can.


----------



## loroll1991

QOTN said:


> I really did not expect my concern for Bonnie's naked belly to trigger so much disbelief. Anybody who cannot imagine what tiny kittens' claws are like could experience the effect by jabbing themselves with 10 needles. Presumably they are born unable to retract their claws so they can hang on effectively to things whenever they feel insecure. This is one of the reasons we always suggest a material such as vetbed for bedding because that will not catch their claws like towels or similar loose weave material can.


I was agreeing with you! I think it could be uncomfortable for mum as when Milo kneads on me it is painful!! X


----------



## QOTN

loroll1991 said:


> I was agreeing with you! I think it could be uncomfortable for mum as when Milo kneads on me it is painful!! X


Cats are generally stoical about discomfort but my concern was the fact that their claws can easily break the skin. Just lifting very young kittens out of the box to weigh them can result in scratches if you don't cup them in your hands because they grip with their 10 little needles until they are used to being picked up.


----------



## belleboris

I've asked on a seperate thread on the page and someone has just said at first it's ok but it soon gets a problem More vids to add to my YouTube to watch list on how to cut them .


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I've asked on a seperate thread on the page and someone has just said at first it's ok but it soon gets a problem More vids to add to my YouTube to watch list on how to cut them .


I'm glad I mentioned it now!


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> I'm glad I mentioned it now!


Ty  
I'm glad I guess I forget she's not a "natural" type of cat there meant to have fir to protect them .


----------



## Lulus mum

I dont think I have ever seen a group of people SO excited!!
You have been there for Bonnie all the way through this and she is such a lucky girl.
We are are all here for you-if not with advice then with support.
You are both in my thoughts and prayers and thank you for what you have done.
Maureen


----------



## ZoeM

I can't believe I've gotten to the 24th page and she's STILL not started kittening!! I was sure they'd be pages and pages of kitten pics by now and instead I join the crowd waiting with baited breath!!

Anyway, hello @belleboris! Nice to meet you and thank you for the most exciting and surely most watched thread in PF for an age!

Anddddd.. I'll go for 3 kittens and saturday! Hope they all end up healthy and Mum too! x


----------



## Tweety1977

ZoeM said:


> I can't believe I've gotten to the 24th page and she's STILL not started kittening!! I was sure they'd be pages and pages of kitten pics by now and instead I join the crowd waiting with baited breath!!
> 
> Anyway, hello @belleboris! Nice to meet you and thank you for the most exciting and surely most watched thread in PF for an age!
> 
> Anddddd.. I'll go for 3 kittens and saturday! Hope they all end up healthy and Mum too! x


I'm lurking and watching too. Soooo excited!


----------



## Cookies mum

I keep checking in for news...will we get a minute by minute labour report?


----------



## Sophiebee

Still checking in and waiting not-so-patiently for kittens here too! My own (human) little one wont be coming until february so i need a baby fix somewhere!!


----------



## claire8234

Gah! Why do I keep checking this page, I have 4 fur babies of my own, the excitement is killing me! I know this sounds awful and I hope you dont get offended but I always thought hairless cats were a bit weird (yes awful I know). So thank you for all your lovely posts which have made me fall in love with them. Bonnie is most certainly that and so lucky to have found such a wonderful home. good luck gorgeous Bonnie I am sure she will be a wonderful mum xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh the waiting is agonising!


----------



## belleboris

If I'm on line ( all the time as I work online I'll post a v detailed report , just found her coseyed up in her box got this feeling it will be Sunday


----------



## MCWillow

Noooo - she has to have 5 tomorrow!  

Her belly is adorable, so looks so happy!


----------



## Matrod

She's got to have them before I go back to work Monday!! :Jawdrop


----------



## The Wild Bunch

belleboris said:


> If I'm on line ( all the time as I work online I'll post a v detailed report , just found her coseyed up in her box got this feeling it will be Sunday


Good that she is getting comfy in the box. Hopefully she will rest before the action starts, you need to get your head down too hun


----------



## Susan M

They'll come when you least expect it, always the way  
I was lucky to be at two births with my breeder this year, it really is amazing! The visible contractions they have are crazy!


----------



## belleboris

Lol she's making sure I don't sleep ! Her licking is mental I'll be fast sleep and all of a sudden my face feels like it's being attacked by sandpaper


----------



## Elsiebea

Could be Halloween kittens. I vote one to called Pumpkin


----------



## jltaylor

Yes I vote for pumpkin


----------



## Cookies mum

Boo? Casper? after Casper the ghost


----------



## jltaylor

Cookies mum said:


> Boo? Casper? after Casper the ghost


Oh yes a real Halloween theme. I like Pumpkin, Boo & Casper


----------



## catcoonz

you could just use a nail file to blunt the kittens claws, that's what I use for mine from 10 days old.


----------



## loroll1991

We have 52 minutes @Soozi otherwise we were wrong he he  xx


----------



## catcoonz

Is there any signs of labour?


----------



## belleboris

Appart from sitting in her box and looking sorry for herself nothing . 
And filing them down is good as it will also get them use to being held , I do it with aspens claws and she now likes it .


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Don't think my Friday night will happen, 15 mins till midnight! Maybe she's an early bird ;-)


----------



## Catharinem

QOTN said:


> I have to try to remember over 45 years ago but I don't recall my son kneading like kittens do, thank goodness. Kittens cannot retract their claws and they have *points! *Plus humans tend not to have the same squabbling over teats. A large litter of kittens can be terrible for fighting right from the day they are born.


Your baby obviously wasn't s "bite and shake" baby then! All I can say is, thank goodness for nipple guards and lansolol!


----------



## Tigermoon

Just checking in. All still quiet I see. This is as agonising as waiting for one of my own girls!!!


----------



## Catharinem

jltaylor said:


> Oh yes a real Halloween theme. I like Pumpkin, Boo & Casper


Another one for Pumpkin, suggested it for a ginger boy if she has one. We had a Casper born Halloween. Boo is nice, I think it's a girly name. What else? Jack (O lantern), Gobolino and Sootica ( from Gobolino, The Witch's Cat). One more minute until Halloween, cross your legs girl.


----------



## MCWillow

And we are now into Saturday!!

So just need 5 for one to be named after me nan who had her birthday today! 

Good luck with them! xx


----------



## Catharinem

Still nothing?


----------



## vivien

Any news? 

Viv xx


----------



## belleboris

Nope Velcro kittens , mums happy though . And she did let me sleep a little when she got settled


----------



## cava14 una

Well there's a name for one Velcro


----------



## Forester

Just wondering, are kittens statistically more likely to be born during the evening / night?

The waiting is bad enough for me so I dread to think what it is like for you @belleboris.


----------



## belleboris

I think lots do have them at night  
I'm getting better actually I'm excited now . 
Bonnie is happy , I'm more relaxed , and I can feel the kittens still


----------



## Forester

Bonnie must think that she's in heaven with you belleboris.

Just reiterating my wishes for her to have an easy labour, producing strong , healthy kittens.


----------



## Soozi

loroll1991 said:


> We have 52 minutes @Soozi otherwise we were wrong he he  xx


We've missed the boat now Hun! xxx the Plus side is it's getting closer! xxx


----------



## huckybuck

Landed safely and checked straight into see if I'd missed anything!

Halloween babies would be exciting!

Miss Popoff and Mr Claypole for any of you old enough to Rentaghost!


----------



## cava14 una

Was there a witch in that too?? Yes there was Hazel the McWitch played by Molly Weir. Scary in more ways than one:Nailbiting


----------



## Catharinem

cava14 una said:


> Was there a witch in that too??


Don't know about that. But there was Mildred (The Worst Witch), Wendy (from Casper meets Wendy) and of course the Winnie The Witch stories.


----------



## cava14 una

I loved Winnie the Witch used to use it for storytimes at work


----------



## Catharinem

cava14 una said:


> I loved Winnie the Witch used to use it for storytimes at work


We are just onto it now. Don't know if I like the stories or pictures best - those stubbley legs! And Wilbur's expressions! How about Wilbur?


----------



## Soozi

Here's some good ones! http://q13fox.com/2015/10/30/25-adorable-halloween-inspired-baby-names/


----------



## loroll1991

@belleboris how is beautiful Bonnie doing? Xx


----------



## belleboris

Hi all she is doing great  she's happy and relaxed , no kittens as of yet
I forgot to look up and ask before I gave it her .... Is she ok to have catnip ?


----------



## moggie14

So pleased to hear Bonnie is doing so well. I'm pretty sure catnip won't do any harm!
Has anyone guessed Monday?! If not I'm going to take a chance and say Monday and 3 kittens lol


----------



## Forester

I said Thursday and 3. I hope that its not going to be _next _Thursday and 3.


----------



## Catharinem

What, still nothing?!


----------



## Cookies mum

The waiting is killing me!


----------



## Lulus mum

I dont think even at Christmas that PF members have ever been so excited.!!!
Just want to send a BIG HUG again to you both 
Its SO lovely to know that there are members on here who are giving you such good advice .We are ALL here for you with our support.
Maureen


----------



## MCWillow

Wow - I was sure I would come home to some kitten news!! Come on Bonnie!!  xx


----------



## Elsiebea

Casualty is on now, so nothing for an hour please


----------



## belleboris

How long can I leave it before it's to long ?
Say tomorrow is week 9 can I leave her for another 5 days ?


----------



## lymorelynn

70 days is usually the maximum but when you don't know the actual mating dates it's difficult. I'd say if the kittens haven't arrived by Monday, then give your vet a call.


----------



## catcoonz

If you take tomorrow (sunday) as 9 weeks, that is only 63 days, they can go to 70 days but it is more likely to be between 65-68.
so between Tuesday (65) and Friday (68).

If kittens are moving and Bonnie seems well, all is fine.


----------



## Citruspips

5 days!!! We can't wait five days were all pacing up and down boiling water we can't stand it much longer come along Bonnie the suspense is too muchx


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Waiting is a bind but better for the buns to be fully baked than for them to arrive too early. As long as they are nice and active and Bonnie is happy, that's all that matters


----------



## moggie14

I need my bed but a bit reluctant to go in case I miss anything lol. If Bonnie gives birth tonight I truly hope all goes well and sending lots of prayers and positive vibes xx


----------



## QOTN

The last thing we need is babies born before day 61 because their lungs are not fully formed then and many do not survive. Normally when you know the dates of mating you count 65 days from the middle day. As CC says, some girls go to day 70 and still have their kittens without a problem. Without knowing the dates of mating, it is usual to see kittens moving about week 7. I still think Sunday is the first day you could expect them and Monday or Tuesday could be just as likely.


----------



## cava14 una

Elsiebea said:


> Casualty is on now, so nothing for an hour please


Oh another Casualty fan


----------



## belleboris

Ty  what do you think the vets will do ? Make me take her in ?


----------



## Tweety1977

How many of us got the towels out to go with the got water?

Poor little mite with her big round tum. Such a good mummy baking them well though


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Ty  what do you think the vets will do ? Make me take her in ?


There is very little the vets can do. As long as the kittens are moving and Bonnie seems well, it really is a waiting game. You would not want an unnecessary caesarean which is about all they could offer. They would probably be reluctant anyway, since it is unlikely she is overdue at the moment. It is best not to think of what could go wrong.


----------



## belleboris

I don't mind the waiting now  just don't want her to not have them and something go horable wrong and I'm sat not knowing


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I don't mind the waiting now  just don't want her to not have them and something go horable wrong and I'm sat not knowing


I think you will know if something is wrong because you are watching her so closely. If you are concerned there is nearly always somebody around here to ask.


----------



## catcoonz

you do what the rest of us are doing, you wait and be patient.
I know it can be worrying but you don't know dates and if you go for a C-section, you risk losing all the babies.
Kittens born early die, kittens born to C-sections can also die, kittens born well baked have a better survival rate, so we don't panic and wait.

If Bonnie was unwell, you would know, she hasn't even started labour yet, so please try not to worry.


----------



## belleboris

So while we are all waiting I think I'll keep spamming this page with Bonnie pics


----------



## belleboris

I think all the reading up Freeks me out , I looked at loads of pages that say when to get help and there all " if no kittens by day x go to the vet .
I've had a c section and hated the recovery and looking after twins so will try to avoid that unless it's a lifesaver


----------



## mrs phas

well anytime between now and around 4 am tomorrow, will do for my guesstimate 
If Im right, and theres a boy, Id like Calcifer 



{would prefer she cooked til done though}


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> So while we are all waiting I think I'll keep spamming this page with Bonnie pics
> View attachment 250120
> View attachment 250121





belleboris said:


> I think all the reading up Freeks me out , I looked at loads of pages that say when to get help and there all " if no kittens by day x go to the vet .
> I've had a c section and hated the recovery and looking after twins so will try to avoid that unless it's a lifesaver


Awwww she's so gorgeous and looks so content!!

Please don't worry yourself and try not to look on Google.. it really isn't your friend!  if you're worried, come here and ask and the amazing people with all the experience will be more than happy to help you


----------



## catcoonz

Google can be your friend and nightmare at the same time.
Each labour is a worry to breeders who know the dates, so I understand being your first and last time, not knowing dates, plus the fact you already know things went wrong previously is a huge stress to you, but bonnie is fine, and nobody here will tell you not to see a vet urgently if we feel she needs a vet.

I think this pregnancy has gone well, only due to the fact Bonnie has a caring owner, is relaxed and happy with you, I don't think she would have reached this stage of pregnancy if she was still in her previous home, so you have already done a wonderful job.

Yes, breeding brings heartache and enjoyment, emotions run high but it is all out of your control, mother nature decides and all you can do is your best, love each kitten every second of the day.

Bonnie will be a good mum, she already has a kind temperament.


----------



## belleboris

Please excuse the boxes that in the back that need to go in the loft .


----------



## catcoonz

That's cute, see Bonnie is saying "don't worry mummy, all is fine".
Have the kittens moved up since the other day? are they still as active?

Although I was not prepared for my first litter, mum sat eating her dinner when she gave birth, that was not written in the text book.


----------



## lymorelynn

She is such a darling :Cat She looks very relaxed and content so I'd not be worrying about her


----------



## Jeano1471

What a sweet girl u can see how much she loves u an how happy she is x so lovely to see xxxx


----------



## Blue-BearUK

If I'm right & she has them on Sunday & three. I'd like Potter for a boy, & Autumn for a girl. Hehe  good luck Bonnie! The suspense is killing us all. Can't wait to see kitty pictures :Snaphappy:Cat:Happy


----------



## Jeano1471

I hope she is pregnant an its not just trapped wind :Bored lol


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh Bonnie you are putting us through the wringer but if it means the babies are well baked so be it


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> Ty  what do you think the vets will do ? Make me take her in ?


Send you home to continue waiting!


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> I think all the reading up Freeks me out , I looked at loads of pages that say when to get help and there all " if no kittens by day x go to the vet .
> I've had a c section and hated the recovery and looking after twins so will try to avoid that unless it's a lifesaver


But since you don't know when day X is, you can't go to the vet on day X...


----------



## The Wild Bunch

belleboris said:


> Please excuse the boxes that in the back that need to go in the loft .


head bumps and purring. She is one very happy and content girl. As others have said @belleboris you are doing a marvellous job with her and she is thriving on the love and affection she is getting. I do not think she would have got this far in her previous home


----------



## vivien

Oh that video was absolutely beautiful. Bonnie definitely loves you. You have had some great advice, I have a feeling she will be fine when her babies come as she is so happy and relaxed with you. 

Viv xx


----------



## huckybuck

Checking in from sunnier climes. Bonnie is thriving under your care and that is all that matters. Didn't the scan vet reckon Sunday anyway? So even if she's a day or 2 after this she will be ok. 

I think it's a little miracle that she has carried her babies this far, you have found PF with all the support and advice there is to offer, and she has all the love and positive thoughts from around the world she could wish for.


----------



## blade100

I'm in love with Bonnie that vid made my heart melt rool:Kiss
She is so beautiful.


----------



## KCTT

I love that video, I especially love the headbutt for the camera as if she is saying thankyou to all those that have given good advise on here. I think Bonnie is certainly very grateful for everything you have done for her @belleboris and is doing her best to show you just how much x


----------



## Soozi

Awww Bonnie is absolutely adorable! She's going to be fine and be a wonderful Mum! I really wouldn't be worrying about her looking at how relaxed and happy she is she clearly feels safe and loved! Just lovely) xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Just watched the video again and it honestly makes my heart melt! She is so beautiful and can see she is so happy with you!  I honestly think it is 100% down to you that Bonnie and her babies have come so far this time @belleboris, I do not think this would have been the case in her old home! xx

Bonnie, as excited as I am, you keep those babies baking for as long as they need to come into this world healthy  xx


----------



## MiloandTazzy

What a gorgeous girl, she looks so happy and relaxed


----------



## Ali71

What a gorgeous video, thanks so much for sharing @belleboris. Bonnie quite clearly adores you and she looks so happy and contented to be with you. Wishing you both all the very best x


----------



## lorilu

belleboris said:


> Please excuse the boxes that in the back that need to go in the loft .


Thank you for this. So beautiful it brought tears to my eyes. Thank you. xx


----------



## huckybuck

It's oh so quiet......


----------



## mrs phas

well my guesstimate was wrong
keep baking Bonnie xxx


----------



## Catharinem

huckybuck said:


> It's oh so quiet......


Why am I thinking of that pop singer who screeched? Byork or something?


----------



## belleboris

Thank you all for your kind words Bonnie is such a loving girl I've no idea why anyone wouldn't need to keep her as a pet even if she carts have kittens  ( which she looks like she can )


----------



## loroll1991

huckybuck said:


> It's oh so quiet......


Was about to say the same thing!!! Could this be it 

EDIT: perhaps not hehe


----------



## huckybuck

It was Bjork..

Shhhh.....

So peaceful until.....


----------



## Elsiebea

What a beautiful and living cat she is. The purr was do loud it captured the interest of my cat


----------



## Elsiebea

Living? Well obviously! I meant loving


----------



## Elsiebea

And swap the do for so! Fat fingers


----------



## Catharinem

Elsiebea said:


> What a beautiful and living cat she is. The purr was do loud it captured the interest of my cat


You'd hope she's living, Halloween was yesterday!


----------



## Elsiebea

Catharinem said:


> You'd hope she's living, Halloween was yesterday!


:Banghead


----------



## Soozi

Just checking! Lol! xxx...............


----------



## Forester

This could be the most watched thread with nothing happening . . .for now. Keep baking Bonnie, just let them out once they're done to perfection.


----------



## Soozi

Forester said:


> This could be the most watched thread with nothing happening . . .for now. Keep baking Bonnie, just let them out once they're done to perfection.


Most definitely! Lol! I just can't wait to be a PF Auntie!:Joyful xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

The waiting is giving me kittens myself! I've never been terribly patient. I don't think I've ever seen Cat Chat on such tenterhooks.....


----------



## loroll1991

I am so excited to become a PF Auntie too @Soozi!! I keep coming on here and refreshing this thread to check for an update tehehe :Joyful xx


----------



## Azriel391

Bake and rest Bonnie, your PF aunties are all eagerly awaiting xx


----------



## ZoeM

Twiddles thumbs..... 

Stares at PF....

Goes back on facebook to look at missing pet groups ....

Returns...

Stares at PF...

Tries to concentrate on other posts...

Returns to this thread...

Sighs..


----------



## Tweety1977

ZoeM said:


> Twiddles thumbs.....
> 
> Stares at PF....
> 
> Goes back on facebook to look at missing pet groups ....
> 
> Returns...
> 
> Stares at PF...
> 
> Tries to concentrate on other posts...
> 
> Returns to this thread...
> 
> Sighs..


Ha ha ha - are we related


----------



## MCWillow

Every time I see a new post I am YAY!!!

Then I am *drums fingers* heheheeeh


----------



## belleboris

It will be exciting when it starts , we could have another 7 days of this
Poor thing is growing and growing she cannot get to her lady parts anymore bless her heart tryin to clean it before .
Aspen is being super loud tonight crying for me


----------



## Tigermoon

I hate to say it but when I had a girl who was unable to clean herself ... She had 7 kittens!!!!!

I keep dropping in, eager for news. Bonnie is keeping us waiting, but you know what they say about those who wait


----------



## Hanlou

Lol I thought I'd post rather than just lurk......... I found this thread whilst I was poorly and have been eagerly following it ever since! I even checked this thread out during the interval at a show tonight.....

Wishing Bonnie the very best and a nice, easy birth xxx


----------



## belleboris

I have no idea what I'm feeling , I put my hand on each side of her belly and can feel kicking , would I be able to tell if there is more than two inside by the kicks ? I'm clueless but happy to feel movement ! Maby she's just a small girl with loads of water


----------



## lazydays

come on bonnie! we'll all be dreaming of little baldy kittens tonight xxxx


----------



## ZoeM

Sweet dreams bonnie and bonnie's mummy, hope the night is uninterrupted and a good night's sleep ensues x


----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> I have no idea what I'm feeling , I put my hand on each side of her belly and can feel kicking , would I be able to tell if there is more than two inside by the kicks ? I'm clueless but happy to feel movement ! Maby she's just a small girl with loads of water


I can never tell, from kicking, how many kittens there are  The way kittens are in the womb I don't think they carry a lot of amniotic fluid like people. You don't get breaking water - just a small amount of fluid with each kitten which has it's own little sac


----------



## belleboris

lymorelynn said:


> I can never tell, from kicking, how many kittens there are  The way kittens are in the womb I don't think they carry a lot of amniotic fluid like people. You don't get breaking water - just a small amount of fluid with each kitten which has it's own little sac


Maby there two giant kittens in there ? 
She's had her rest and now scoffing food down so now I'm about to go bed she will want to play


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> *Maby there two giant kittens in there ?*
> She's had her rest and now scoffing food down so now I'm about to go bed she will want to play


Please don't mention giant kittens. Far better she has several smaller ones. It is always very difficult to tell how many kittens are inside. As many of us have said, even scans are not accurate. You might think one side of the belly bigger than the other indicates an uneven number but that is not always the case.

Give Aspen a big hug from me and my tribe. She must wonder what on earth is going on.


----------



## moggie14

Just popping in to say good morning Bonnie, hope all is well today and sending you and your mummy a big hug xx


----------



## huckybuck

Checking in from the sunshine...still quiet?


----------



## idris

I'm in for a busy day today so I'm getting my well wishes in early. Good luck ​


----------



## vivien

Morning. Just checking in to see if there is any news. . I hope you Bonnie and Aspen are all well. 

Viv xx


----------



## belleboris

aspen settled down after a bit , think she just needed a love Out of the two she's a lot more vocal if she wants something .
Bonnie is still cooking the babies , she spent last night trying to get on my head to go sleep


----------



## Catharinem

This is just getting silly now!


----------



## MoggyBaby

Moggy Towers is still here and still watching....... And waiting................


----------



## blade100

belleboris said:


> aspen settled down after a bit , think she just needed a love Out of the two she's a lot more vocal if she wants something .
> Bonnie is still cooking the babies , she spent last night trying to get on my head to go sleep


How adorable she's sooo loving. These kittens are going to be so lovable too just like mum :Kiss:Happy


----------



## Soozi

Here's me clocking in for the day! Glad Bonnie is still comfy! See you all during the course of the day? xxx


----------



## carly87

I always have an educated guess at how many kittens are inside, and am never wrong by more than about 1 or 2, but that's over weeks of feeling movement patterns, kicks etc. I can feel their little heads and bodies inside my girls, but I wouldn't advise poking and prodding her at this late stage to find out. If you lay your hand gently on the side of her belly, you should be able to feel kittens writhing and sliding under your hand, and you can often feel distinct separate lumps. The only time I haven't felt this is when I'm expecting a big litter, in which case I only feel kicks and nothing else.


----------



## Cookies mum

Good morning everyone, hope today brings news as I dont think our nerves can take much more waiting


----------



## loroll1991

Just checking in! Glad Aspen settled down 

Not sure how much I will log in today (tons after 17:00pm ), but good luck and as always, thinking of Bonnie and wishing good luck!

Until then, just casually sitting and waiting (im)patiently! xxx


----------



## Soozi

loroll1991 said:


> Just checking in! Glad Aspen settled down
> 
> Not sure how much I will log in today (tons after 17:00pm ), but good luck and as always, thinking of Bonnie and wishing good luck!
> 
> Until then, just casually sitting and waiting (im)patiently! xxx


Ha Ha!!!! love that!!!! XXX


----------



## Erenya

Checking in for day 7 of Kittie watch


----------



## Catharinem

blade100 said:


> How adorable she's sooo loving. These kittens are going to be so lovable too just like mum :Kiss:Happy


Hi there Blade100. I'm so pleased to see Ruby in your signature, it's going to be ok.

( Dog Chatters nod wisely, Cat Chatters go "Huh?")


----------



## QOTN

carly87 said:


> I always have an educated guess at how many kittens are inside, and am *never wrong by more than about 1 or 2*,


One or two more used to make all the difference to me! I always preferred litters of 4 or 5 over 7 or 8. The bigger the litter of Siamese and Orientals, the madder they are. (I am sure Bonnie is not going to have such a huge litter.)


----------



## carly87

Hah, with you there QOTN! My heart sinks when I get more than about 5, but would much prefer 3 or 4! My litter of 6 (really big for a Persian) were more mental than any other kittens I've ever had! And by the time that 14 week mark came, I would have paid the owners to take them, never mind the other way around! My house was just a mad house! It was really, really fun!


----------



## Azriel391

loroll1991 said:


> Just checking in! Glad Aspen settled down
> 
> Not sure how much I will log in today (tons after 17:00pm ), but good luck and as always, thinking of Bonnie and wishing good luck!
> 
> Until then, just casually sitting and waiting (im)patiently! xxx


On the sofa next to @loroll1991 waiting with antici...... pation


----------



## ZoeM

Popping in on my lunch break to see if there's any news.

Keep baking them buns Bonnie!

Z x


----------



## Erenya




----------



## JaimeandBree

Gosh everytime I log on I think, surely this time there will be some news?!?! Bonnie I think you are teasing us lol


----------



## belleboris

Update ! Milk is now in and leaking


----------



## ALR

OMG it's hapenning:Nailbiting

How long after Bonnies starts producing milk, would she go into labour?


----------



## belleboris

It could still be a day or two from now couldn't it ?


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Update ! Milk is now in and leaking


OMG OMG OMG!!

I got this email through to my mobile at work and HAD TO come and reply!!

Didn't someone say that once milk it's produced, it's not much longer?!








GOOD LUCK BEAUTIFUL BONNIE!! Hope all goes well and I am looking forward to being a PF Auntie!


----------



## QOTN

We usually say within 72 hours of the milk coming in but it could be anytime.


----------



## Soozi

Are they on their way? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## loroll1991

Soozi said:


> Are they on their way? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
> View attachment 250304


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious I just spat my cup of tea *everywhere *!!! That GIF is amazing :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> We usually say within 72 hours of the milk coming in but it could be anytime.


So this week at some point ?



Soozi said:


> Are they on their way? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
> View attachment 250304


I love this pic


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> So this week at some point ?


This could be wrong but have just found this:
_'Your pregnant cat looks like she's about to explode. ***You're a nervous wreck waiting for her to give birth.** *If you notice her teats leaking milk, relax. That's normal, and means her kittens will arrive within the next 48 hours. Prepare for kitten watch, with your vet's contact info handy.'
(Source http://pets.thenest.com/long-before-delivery-cats-produce-milk-11421.html)
_
***I think this statement speaks for half of Cat Chat right now :Joyful*


----------



## buffie

Been out most of the day,just logged in to see how things are progressing hopefully there will be little peaches soon x


----------



## catcoonz

Keep a watch on her now then, sometimes it can be 72 hours, with my girl she had her milk in during the day and kittens born that night.


----------



## Azriel391

what's that .... they're coming ..... I haz been watchin for agez .... psssst they're coming  good luck beautiful Bonnie and mum xx


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> So this week at some point ?


It looks as though you were right about hearing Bonnie 'gurgling.' It must have been about 7 weeks then and on that basis we said before it would be Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. If she has so much milk it is dripping it could be sooner rather than later. (Usually we are so anxious, we start testing teats far sooner.) Is she nesting? Licking herself? Have you seen any discharge?


----------



## idris

The milk bar is open . We just now need the customers .


----------



## Carzana

Bless her. She must be close now. Excitimg stuff


----------



## Little Zooey

catcoonz said:


> Keep a watch on her now then, sometimes it can be 72 hours, with my girl she had her milk in during the day and kittens born that night.


That night... but after midnight please Bonnie. Let kitties be born on my birthday


----------



## JaimeandBree

OMG I nearly wet myself with excitement when I read that :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

This is the start, you're on the home straight now Bonnie


----------



## sarahecp

keeping everything crossed for the beautiful Bonnie and hoping we have beautiful baldy babies here soon  xx


----------



## huckybuck

Ooooooooooohhhhhhhh!


----------



## Jaf

How exciting. Hope Bonnie has an easy birth and the babies are healthy.


----------



## blade100

Omg omg


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> It looks as though you were right about hearing Bonnie 'gurgling.' It must have been about 7 weeks then and on that basis we said before it would be Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. If she has so much milk it is dripping it could be sooner rather than later. (Usually we are so anxious, we start testing teats far sooner.) Is she nesting? Licking herself? Have you seen any discharge?


She's made a nest on my bed ! 
She also keeps scratching the floor as I can hear it when I'm downstairs .
No discharge yet

I was giving her a back rub and she rolled on her belly and it felt a tad wet so had a closer look and it's little clearish drops on the end of the back 4


----------



## Shrike

Seems you could be in for a late night BelleBoris!
Best wishes to Bonnie and the kittens (however many there are!).


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oooh nesting too! Must be getting close! We'll not want to go to bed tonight lol!!!

Maybe a silly question but is cat labour usually quite quick? Or does it vary wildly like humans?


----------



## QOTN

JaimeandBree said:


> Oooh nesting too! Must be getting close! We'll not want to go to bed tonight lol!!!
> 
> Maybe a silly question but is cat labour usually quite quick? Or does it vary wildly like humans?


It takes as long as it takes. Some girls fiddle around for ages in the first stage of labour whilst others hardly notice that stage and go straight into big contractions. Some girls pop them out every ten minutes or less whilst others take ages over each one. That is why a maiden queen is such an unknown quantity.


----------



## Matrod

Ooooooooooh how exciting!!! :Nailbiting:Nailbiting Come on Bonnie, get those babies out! Hope she has a smooth & peaceful birth.

This is going to be me tonight!


----------



## JaimeandBree

QOTN said:


> It takes as long as it takes. Some girls fiddle around for ages in the first stage of labour whilst others hardly notice that stage and go straight into big contractions. Some girls pop them out every ten minutes or less whilst others take ages over each one. That is why a maiden queen is such an unknown quantity.


Thanks, just like humans really then, how long is a piece of string!!


----------



## Soozi

Oooh I had a feeling earlier in the thread that she might want to nest on your bed! Oh Bonnie not long now sweetheart!! This is just so exciting! xxx


----------



## buffie

Off to charge up the lappy just incase I need to log in later,would hate to miss it after all this waiting Good luck Bonnie paws crossed for an easy time of it.


----------



## Cazzer

Ooh exciting times ahead! Good luck Bonnie and BelleBoris!


----------



## QOTN

JaimeandBree said:


> Thanks, just like humans really then, how long is a piece of string!!


Yes and just like humans they vary widely in the amount of fuss they make!

Mine were always so good but friends had girls who ran round screaming with kittens hanging or biting anything/anyone in sight!


----------



## carly87

Hope you have waterproof sheets or plenty of inco pads. Labour fluids absolutely do not wash out of quilts! Give her a box on your bed. If she's scratching and hasn't done it before, then I'd say not long at all now. Does your vet have an emergency service? If so, might be worth giving them a ring just to give them a friendly heads up that labour is imminent so it won't be surprising for them if you have to call. Hopefully you won't but better to be prepared.Put their number on speed dial and have a big carrier disinfected and ready with lots of warm blankets so you can pop her and babies into if you need to to take them in. Have your heatpad on and in a separate box so that you can pop babies away from mum if she gets too unsettled during labour. I've had to do this with my girls as they won't settle with kittens until labour is completely finished. Have you got NutriDrops in just in case you have a slow one that needs help?

Above all, kittens need to be kept warm and contained when born, so don't panic if she doesn't feed them straight away. Just keep them warm and use NutriDrops or sugar water sparingly until she feeds.

Remember that you have my number and I'll make sure to be around to take calls. You don't have to go through this alone.

Have you got an extra pair of hands to help just in case she has them all fast and needs help to get them going?


----------



## Paddypaws

Oh this is just TOO exciting!
Breeders....what about Placentas? Can and should they eat them all even with a large litter? the ancient book I read when my Nellie was pregnant said that too many could make the cat sick so I removed one or two.


----------



## Elsiebea

Oooh ooooh!!! I've been lurking but not for a few hours and now read this. Glad I logged on.


----------



## Tigermoon

Good lord!!!!! I'm away for an short time and it looks like things are afoot!

I will be keeping an eye on the thread. Exciting times ahead.

With regards to placentas I allow the Queen to eat them if she wants but I make sure I note when each one is passed so I know that none are left lurking inside.


----------



## moggie14

Topping up those 'have a safe labour and birth' vibes for little Bonnie. I'm sure you will be fine @belleboris xxx


----------



## belleboris

I not don't have a quilt on the bed as aspen need to pee on it as soon as I put it on again .
So we have throws and they can all go on a high wash after if needed .

I have everything ready minus the carrier disinfected .
Will ring ooh vets at 6:30 .

My ex I staying over ( lucky me ! ) just incase my dad needs to take us to the vetanry hospital tonight .

I'll get my daughter to watch over her while i have a bath later feel it will be a while still as she's happy and acting totally normal


----------



## QOTN

Paddypaws said:


> Oh this is just TOO exciting!
> Breeders....what about Placentas? Can and should they eat them all even with a large litter? the ancient book I read when my Nellie was pregnant said that too many could make the cat sick so I removed one or two.


In my experience some girls ignore them whilst others would eat every single one. I always used to retrieve as many as possible. I think they cause squits rather than sickness but it is waste matter after all. There would be two benefits to eating them in the wild. Firstly the nest would be kept clean and secondly they would provide some nourishment to the queen when going hunting would not be a feasible option. We perform both those functions for our girls so scoffing them is not necessary. They do seem to be exceedingly chewy!


----------



## Firedog

Little Zooey said:


> That night... but after midnight please Bonnie. Let kitties be born on my birthday


Sorry it has to be today.


----------



## Jellypi3

Yay exciting! Go bonnie! I'll be checking in for updates (and birthing tips  )


----------



## JaimeandBree

I'm going to be refreshing this page constantly tonight lol!!!


----------



## loroll1991

I am going to be refreshing this thread unbelievable amounts!!! I am so excited!

wishing Bonnie a peaceful and easy birth! Good luck to you both, you'll be absolutely fine  xxx


----------



## Ali71

@belleboris every time I log in I go straight to this thread for news. Keeping everything crossed this end for a safe and easy birth. Will be thinking of you all and looking forward to updates! How exciting!


----------



## JaimeandBree

loroll1991 said:


> I am going to be refreshing this thread unbelievable amounts!!! I am so excited!
> 
> wishing Bonnie a peaceful and easy birth! Good luck to you both, you'll be absolutely fine  xxx


Hope we don't crash PF with all the activity on here lol!!!!


----------



## loroll1991

JaimeandBree said:


> Hope we don't crash PF with all the activity on here lol!!!!


I honestly think we might ! But wait! We can't, how will we get the updates?!?! Tehehe xx


----------



## colliemerles

good luck, I hope it all goes well. Will check back later for updates.


----------



## huckybuck

I'm a few hours ahead but scared to go to bed now... Every fibre of my being is wishing a easy, quick, safe birth for Bonnie, babies and you. Lots of love xxx


----------



## Forester

Yet more last minute wishes for an easy labour and strong, healthy kittens.

Somehow I doubt that many of us will be going to bed early tonight.


----------



## popcornsmum

Ooh sending lots of positive vibes, a relaxing birth for Bonnie and healthy kittens X


----------



## Jenny1966

Haven't posted for a while but been lurking and watching this thread ...... Fingers crossed for a safe delivery, good luck xx


----------



## Citruspips

My phones on 29% charge so it's off to get charged while I make dinner!! Then I'll be like my kids glued to my phoneXx


----------



## ZoeM

Good luck Bonnie and Bonnie's Mum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.... and breathe....

Fingers crossed for a safe delivery for Bonnie and healthy kitties x


----------



## Tweety1977

*Squeeel*. Good luck Bonnie x


----------



## Elsiebea

I've got to go and help with homework... How bad would it be to say to the teacher that we couldn't do it because I was waiting on line for kittens to be born?:Hilarious


----------



## catcoonz

Placentas I leave for mums to do, what she hasn't done after 30 minutes I tie and cut ( between placenta and .... NOT KITTEN SIDE).
Safe to leave kittens attached for an hour.


----------



## Lulus mum

Elsiebea said:


> I've got to go and help with homework... How bad would it be to say to the teacher that we couldn't do it because I was waiting on line for kittens to be born?:Hilarious


I was a Primary teacher for 27 years and I would DEFINITELY understand-in fact I would ask you for the name of the web site !!!


----------



## GingerNinja

Another one topping up the safe delivery vibes 

I hope everything goes smoothly but you seem to be prepared for every eventuality 

Lots of love xx


----------



## MCWillow

Ooooh!!! Wishing you both loads of luck, and good wishes!! Lots of love xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Oooh at last! Good luck Bonnie! You'll have to choose firework names xxxx


----------



## Soozi

I am seeing members I have never seen before also members I haven't seen for a while it's truly amazing how many PF Cat chatters are here to support and send good wishes for @belleboris and the lovely Bonnie! I'm really chuffed for them both! xxx:Happy


----------



## mudgekin

Ohhhh I'm so excited, count me in on the kitten watch too. We are all waving the flag for the Bonnie wee girl xxx


----------



## MoggyBaby

JaimeandBree said:


> Thanks, just like humans really then, *how long is a piece of string*!!


Twice as long as when you fold it in half!!!  

But I digress..... Good luck Bonnie - all at Moggy Towers wish you and your slave an easy and trouble free night. xxx


----------



## Azriel391

Topping up the pf vibes for a safe, smooth and easy birth for Bonnie and @belleboris xx off to charge tablet it's gonna be a long night


----------



## Vienna1

Been watching this thread i keep logging in to check. Good luck Bonnie hope it's a quick easy labour.


----------



## catcoonz

Mobile charged and on if you need me at any time of the night, please don't be worried you may wake me up.
I apologise now for the heavy breathing, have chest infection but my mind still works even if the rest of me doesn't.
Call/text any time, don't sit and worry.

Wishing you both all the best for a safe labour and beautiful kittens.


----------



## belleboris

Ty all  I'm going for a bath to freshen up  may be a long 48hr for me


----------



## Soozi

catcoonz said:


> Mobile charged and on if you need me at any time of the night, please don't be worried you may wake me up.
> I apologise now for the heavy breathing, have chest infection but my mind still works even if the rest of me doesn't.
> Call/text any time, don't sit and worry.
> 
> Wishing you both all the best for a safe labour and beautiful kittens.


You're an absolute star Hun! xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Soozi said:


> You're an absolute star Hun! xxx


You really are a star @belleboris  xx


----------



## Soozi

loroll1991 said:


> You really are a star @belleboris  xx


I just can't imagine myself coping with it as well as BB she's amazing! xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Soozi said:


> I just can't imagine myself coping with it as well as BB she's amazing! xxx


Woops I didn't realise the original was to @catcoonz who is also an absolute star !!!! xx


----------



## Pear

Lots of love from Moth Cat and Tonks x


----------



## catcoonz

Bonnie and her amazing owner is the star, who will have baby starlets soon.
you wont hear any news from me, it is not my news to tell.


----------



## belleboris

Pear said:


> Lots of love from Moth Cat and Tonks x


Where did you get the name moth ? I love his name is suits him to well


----------



## Charity

Good luck Bonnie and BB xx


----------



## Sophiebee

Jellypi3 said:


> Yay exciting! Go bonnie! I'll be checking in for updates (and birthing tips  )


haha ill just stick to updates, i have no desire to eat the placenta!! 

Good luck bonnie and @belleboris, youve been so brilliant so far im sure you will both do amazingly!


----------



## Erenya

Apparently humans can get their placenta dried into capsule form ;-)


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

I'd consider the dried placenta capsules, chowing them down raw is something I'd leave to the animals :Wtf


----------



## Jellypi3

:Vomit think my MS just came back


----------



## Erenya

Probably doesn't taste any worse than McDonald's...

Sorry... I promise I'll stop now


----------



## KCTT

Another one who is watching this thread with interest and wishing @belleboris and Bonnie all the best for the next few hours or however long it takes. I love that belleboris is now the calmest person on this thread which is probably just as well x


----------



## belleboris

Bath over we're now having snuggles , I'm like that worry till the point .
I strolled into theater when I had a c section and made jokes with the staff ,


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Bath over we're now having snuggles , I'm like that worry till the point .
> I strolled into theater when I had a c section and made jokes with the staff ,


Oh Bonnie you are so beautiful! but I did have to giggle at the size of your belly and teets just so cute! sending hugs!XXX


----------



## moggie14

I'm off to bed now, hoping all is well with Bonnie overnight xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Bath over we're now having snuggles , I'm like that worry till the point .
> I strolled into theater when I had a c section and made jokes with the staff ,


Aww Bonnie you look gorgeous, big belly and all! Kisses and lots more good vibes :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Bath over we're now having snuggles , I'm like that worry till the point .
> I strolled into theater when I had a c section and made jokes with the staff ,


Bonnie, you are utterly perfect! xx


----------



## Soozi

moggie14 said:


> I'm off to bed now, hoping all is well with Bonnie overnight xx


@moggie14 You could be an Auntie by the morning! xxx


----------



## MCWillow

37 minutes since last update - BB either fell asleep, is having lovely Bonnie snuggles, or SOMETHING IS HAPPENING!!!!


----------



## Matrod

I'm off to bed too, hoping to be one of many aunties by the morning to healthy kittens & mummy! :Nailbiting :Cat


----------



## sarahecp

belleboris said:


> Bath over we're now having snuggles , I'm like that worry till the point .
> I strolled into theater when I had a c section and made jokes with the staff ,


Aww bless her :Joyful she is just so beautiful, I love her :Kiss:Kiss

Loving the expression on her face :Joyful she looks so happy and relaxed and probably saying to herself, I'm going to make you lot wait just a little bit longer 

I'm going to bed soon, if things start to happen during the night I really hope all goes well for Bonnie and her babies xxx

Looking forward to being an Aunty too


----------



## Tigermoon

I don't usually go to bed until 11 -11.30 so will be here for a bit yet. I don't always sleep very well either so will pop in overnight if I wake.


----------



## vivien

Just looked in to see how Bonnie is doing. I hope all goes well and Bonnie has an easy labour 

Viv xx


----------



## Little P

I've been lurking, following this thread. On the edge of my seat...

...

...

...and I don't even like cats!!


----------



## MCWillow

Little P said:


> I've been lurking, following this thread. On the edge of my seat...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...*and I don't even like cats!!*


*gasp* what is _wrong_ with you???!!!!  (welcome to Cat Chat hehe)


----------



## Little P

MCWillow said:


> *gasp* what is _wrong_ with you???!!!!  (welcome to Cat Chat hehe)


I'm massively allergic to the little blighters. Even the naked ones!


----------



## Dumpling

Ooooh how exciting! It sounds like it's not going to be long now. Good luck Bonnie!


----------



## belleboris

MCWillow said:


> 37 minutes since last update - BB either fell asleep, is having lovely Bonnie snuggles, or SOMETHING IS HAPPENING!!!!


Cleaning litter tray out ewwwww I'm she's only had the 3 poos today my room smells a delight ! It's also helps she's naked and I'm trying to keep the room walm for them all so no open windows ....... Can I sleep on the sofa


----------



## Azriel391

Hello @Little P , welcome to catchat , exccting times


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> Can I sleep on the sofa


Sleep? Sleep??! Oh my no! There will be no sleep for you now. 1 hourly checks (minimum) have to be made ...


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well I'm about to head off to bed, no doubt if I wake up in the night I'll pop my head around the door to see if any news. If things do kick off overnight then best of luck to Bonnie and to you Belleboris  xxx


----------



## loroll1991

I am due to go to sleep in 15-20 minutes but I don't think I'm going to be able to sleep!

Just wanted to say my OH is really excited for Bonnie too and the first thing he asked when he got home was "any signs of babies yet?!" Hehe  I don't stop going on about it hehe ! Xx


----------



## Hanlou

Still here and still watching........  xx

Bonnie has brought the forum together lol, bless her! xx


----------



## Azriel391

Off to bed here too , hugs @belleboris for this eve xxx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Cleaning litter tray out ewwwww I'm she's only had the 3 poos today my room smells a delight ! It's also helps she's naked and I'm trying to keep the room walm for them all so no open windows ....... Can I sleep on the sofa


Ooooh don't think so! Lol! Wrap a tea towel around your nose and mouth! Lol! Poor you Hun it's not going to be long the babies might be putting a bit of pressure on her bowels! I think it might be tonight or early hours tomorrow. xxx


----------



## Citruspips

belleboris said:


> ....... Can I sleep on the sofa


Absolutely not :Stop we don't want to miss anything!! X


----------



## catcoonz

you cant really be in a different room asleep from Bonnie, if a kitten is born in the sac you have seconds to be there to wipe mouth/nose area so the kitten can breathe.
Sorry, but part of being a kitty midwife, as they say if you are awake and prepared you are not needed.
Bonnie has come this far, you can sleep after the birth and all is safe.


----------



## loroll1991

Bed for me now! But just in case it happens during the night, good luck and I hope if it does happen it is safe, quick and goes well! I am sure I'll wake up at silly o'clock to check again anyway ! Xx


----------



## MCWillow

Yep - bed for me too - wishing you lots of luck if it happens tonight - if not I hope you both get some well earned rest!! xx


----------



## Elsiebea

You're all telling @belleboris that you're going to bed to sleep knowing full well she may not.. Utter cruelty! :Facepalm


----------



## elmthesofties

I've been following this thread from the start and haven't had anything to contribute, but I'm so excited for you! Can't wait to see the next updates, with mandatory kitten pics.


----------



## belleboris

Don't worry all I'm not going to leave her and go sleep on the sofa , we are snuggles up on the sofa together as aspen is asleep in her donut in the kitchen . 
I'm not sleepy I'm excited but had to come out the room after opening the window and heating on full


----------



## Cookies mum

Just checking in before I go to bed, will be back at 7:00 to see what has happened overnight, hope you both get some rest... you will need it  Good luck and hope the night goes purrfectly


----------



## Shrike

Good luck and best wishes to you both for the vigil!


----------



## buffie

Hope you manage to get some sleep tonight ,paws crossed the cookies stay in the oven till morning x


----------



## Catharinem

Good luck!


----------



## belleboris

She's now legging it around my house !


----------



## Alisonfoy

Has she settled yet? Another lurker here, but also a night owl.. More positive vibes to you and Bonnie x


----------



## belleboris

Yep she's curled up in a ball on my belly sleeping , settled and happy . Going to take her up to bed when this film finishes


----------



## mudgekin

Ooohhhhh, I can't sleep, good luck to the wee lass, and you of course too. I just thought I'd pop in again. I was kind of hoping that we may have some action. If she is sleeping on your tum you won't be able to sleep anyway for the babies kicking
.


----------



## belleboris

Mrs ultra needy , she's struggling to get comfy now


----------



## Alisonfoy

She must wonder what's going on!


----------



## Tigermoon

All seems quiet ...


----------



## sarahecp

Tigermoon said:


> All seems quiet ...


Very quiet 

I didn't have a great night and kept checking in expecting there to be news.

I hope you both had a good night BB xx


----------



## belleboris

Nothing yet


----------



## huckybuck

I didn't sleep either, just about to go and sit by the pool....had to check in first! 

Hope you both have had a decent night's sleep and have your strength up for today. Xx


----------



## vivien

Just checking in to see how Bonnie is doing. I too am getting excited  

Viv xx


----------



## idris

belleboris said:


> Mrs ultra needy , she's struggling to get comfy now
> View attachment 250396


That does not look like a good night's sleep :Bored Good morning lovelies . Just checking in . Good luck for today x it has to be soon . Please let it be soon lol x


----------



## Tweety1977

Hope you both managed some sleep. (early morning checking in here).


----------



## blade100

Just checking in


----------



## moggie14

Hope you both had a good night. Good luck for today! I'm sure it won't be too long now xx


----------



## Burmesemum

Every morning I get up the first thing I do is check on here for any news lol. Best wishes to you both.


----------



## loroll1991

Hope you both managed to get a good nights sleep! X


----------



## Catharinem

???


----------



## JaimeandBree

Gosh I really thought we'd have seen some action overnight, I even had a quick peek when I got up to go to the loo at 3.30! 

Bless Bonnie hopefully the clinginess and struggling to get comfy means we're not far off xxx


----------



## Jesthar

C'mon, beautiful Bonnie, surely it can't be long until the oven pinger goes now and we get to see what you've been baking so carefully


----------



## blade100

Had to stop in mid clean up to check on here


----------



## Soozi

So! We're not Aunties yet! Will keep watching today! I felt sure I would wake up to the news that the babies had arrived! Bonnie looks so comfy on your head bless her. 

Bonnie it won't be long sweetheart! xxx


----------



## SusieRainbow

Oh, she looks such a sweet girl ! She must be uncomfortable with that huge belly full of kittens, look forward to news. Bless !


----------



## Ali71

Fingers crossed for you both. First thing I checked this morning and I've been on twice since lol. Good luck sweet Bonnie x


----------



## buffie

Still here and waiting..................


----------



## oliviarussian

Today's the day, I can just feel it!!!!!


----------



## huckybuck

Arghh having wifi problems!!! I've had to use data roaming lol!!!!


----------



## cats galore

Good luck  We had four kittens born yesterday to one of the cats in our rescue. She's only about twlve months old maximum and this is her second litter


----------



## belleboris

She's been to the toilet about 6 times last night and is now curled up asleep on the bed .
She is struggling to get comfy but not sure if it's the size of her or things starting to twinge .
Will keep the page updated of any changes , had v little rest as she was up and down all night


----------



## belleboris

cats galore said:


> Good luck  We had four kittens born yesterday to one of the cats in our rescue. She's only about twlve months old maximum and this is her second litter


Poor baby girl , hope she's nice and settled now , at least she won't need to do it again now she's with you .


----------



## ALR

I hope it all happens soon and that everyone is healthy and well. It must be uncomfortable for her to be so close and you sound like you need some rest as well.


----------



## vivien

ALR said:


> I hope it all happens soon and that everyone is healthy and well. It must be uncomfortable for her to be so close and you sound like you need some rest as well.


I echo what ALR said. She must be very uncomfortable now. I know I was at the end of my pregnancies bless her. I will look in again later. 

Viv xx


----------



## Soozi

cats galore said:


> Good luck  We had four kittens born yesterday to one of the cats in our rescue. She's only about twlve months old maximum and this is her second litter


That's terribly sad poor baby!  she will have a lovely life from now on! xxx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> She's been to the toilet about 6 times last night and is now curled up asleep on the bed .
> She is struggling to get comfy but not sure if it's the size of her or things starting to twinge .
> Will keep the page updated of any changes , had v little rest as she was up and down all night


For All your sakes I hope it's soon Hun. xxx


----------



## Forester

I checked a couple of times overnight but was too tired to post. I'm hoping that it will be soon as you @belleboris and Bonnie must be suffering from lack of sleep . . .although terribly excited.

More wishes for an easy labour, and safe delivery of strong healthy babies. I almost added wishes for Bonnie to be a good mum there but I'm sure that she will be. She seems such a sweet, gentle affectionate girl.

Good Luck!


----------



## Soozi

huckybuck said:


> Arghh having wifi problems!!! I've had to use data roaming lol!!!!


Don't worry sweetie I will text you if there's any news! Look in when you can.  xxx


----------



## carly87

If she's had "the big clear out" and is anything like my girls, you're looking at in the next 6-12 hours. Wouldn't be leaving her for a second now.

You'll see teeny tiny little ripples in her belly at first. These aren't proper contractions, only her moving kittens down into position ready for the birth. Really hoping it's nice and quick and easy for her.


----------



## Soozi

carly87 said:


> If she's had "the big clear out" and is anything like my girls, you're looking at in the next 6-12 hours. Wouldn't be leaving her for a second now.
> 
> You'll see teeny tiny little ripples in her belly at first. These aren't proper contractions, only her moving kittens down into position ready for the birth. Really hoping it's nice and quick and easy for her.


Oh Carly I hope you're right and Bonnie does give birth soon! poor little mite looks so uncomfortable! xxx


----------



## MoggyBaby

*Still here waiting......*


----------



## Azriel391

Topping up the easy birth vibes for Bonnie and calm vibes for @belleboris xxx


----------



## loroll1991

On my lunch break and just checking in!

Still patiently waiting beautiful Bonnie xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Just checking in again.......

I don't want the kittens coming until they're well baked of course, but I do hope for Bonnie's sake they are ready to come out of the oven very soon, if she is so uncomfortable now. You must be exhausted Belleboris, I'm exhausted just waiting and watching the thread. I don't know how you breeders do it time and time again, it's not for the faint hearted is it!

On a nice note, I am so heartened to see the outpouring of support and well wishes for Bonnie and Belleboris, especially from those of you who aren't cat chatters, it's really lovely to see!


----------



## JTK79

Hope they arrive soon!  I am guessing 4 in the early hours on the 4th


----------



## blade100

Checking in again


----------



## belleboris

She's still holding them in , poor thing , I'm thinking early tomorrow morning , she's not comfy so for her sake hope it's soon and quick


----------



## blade100

Poor baby. Hope it's quick for her and easy.


----------



## Lulus mum

Just sending you both BIG HUGS and hoping that her babies come soon.
I am SO TOUCHED by the responses from so many P F members and the love and support-,its really lovely.!
Maureen


----------



## Catharinem

Only me, carry on.


----------



## LostSoul

just checking in...


----------



## vivien

Just popping in again. I hope all is well with Bonnie. 

Viv xx


----------



## cava14 una

When you think about it would you want to give birth with us lot looking over your shoulder:Cat Seriously though I hope all goes well for her and the kittens


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> I'm thinking early tomorrow morning


You're probably right. Of all the litters I've bred I can count on one hand the number of those that came at a sensible hour that didn't interfere with bedtime, the vast majority appeared around about midnight :Arghh

So another sleepless night for you @belleboris but hopefully tonight will be the night


----------



## mrs phas

havent been able to check all day as had drops in my eyes for an examination
thank you for holding on Bonnie
now im back to lurking and watching


----------



## huckybuck

Checking in again before bedtime In Dubai. Wifi back up and running again yay!! Very happy Bonnie is still cooking and all's well. My prediction (time difference accounted for) is looking good lol. Stay well and healthy Mummy and Babies. Lots of love xxx


----------



## Cookies mum

Another PF Aunt y checking in to see if there are any developments....nope....wanders away


----------



## lymorelynn

Lots of loving thoughts for Bonnie.


----------



## blade100

Hope all is ok?


----------



## ZoeM

I was sure I'd missed all the excitement!! Is tonight the night Bonnie? I hope you let your poor Mum get some sleep last night, didnt look too comfy having that huge bump lying on your face, bless her!


----------



## laiquendai

another new-ish cat chatter and lurker sending well wishing vibes - eagerly waiting to hear some news. hope all is well. xxx


----------



## MiloandTazzy

Also just checking in


----------



## SusieRainbow

Time for a curry and bumpy ride in the car methinks ! ( or whatever the feline equivalent is )


----------



## lorilu

xxxxx


----------



## moggie14

Just back from work and checking in! Pleased I haven't missed anything but a bit disappointed for poor Bonnie bless her. Hope you are both holding up okay and sending lots of hugs xxx


----------



## cuddlycats

just checking in to see how your sweet girl is ,


----------



## Soozi

The wait seems endless! Sigh!


----------



## Lulus mum

NEWS FLASH--It has been reported that half of the entire country is on ALERT
NO its NOT a terrorist attack,flood warning or anything like that
They are awaiting the arrival of some very special kittens!!
Please sent hugs to to their mum Bonnie and to Bonnies mum.
Maureen


----------



## Soozi

Lulus mum said:


> NEWS FLASH--It has been reported that half of the entire country is on ALERT
> NO its NOT a terrorist attack,flood warning or anything like that
> They are awaiting the arrival of some very special kittens!!
> Please sent hugs to to their mum Bonnie and to Boonies mum.
> Maureen


Lol! it really does feel like it there are more and more joining the vigil! I think Bonnie is more popular than Jesus was! lol!


----------



## MCWillow

Checking in - then wont be able to after about 5am tomorrow as am on a 2 day conference for work (my first conference!) - so if she has them after midnight one should be called Connie


----------



## Elsiebea

I said Thursday as my guess, but I didn't say which Thursday :Cigar

Hopefully not for poor Bonnie !


----------



## Forester

This thread has had 19,431 views so far. I wonder whether it might set a record by the time the kittens have arrived.

I hope that we aren't going to bring the forum down. I haven't had problems before but I'm having difficulty getting this thread to load tonight, .All other threads are o k.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Forester said:


> This thread has had 19,431 views so far. I wonder whether it might set a record by the time the kittens have arrived.
> 
> I hope that we aren't going to bring the forum down. I haven't had problems before but I'm having difficulty getting this thread to load tonight, .All other threads are o k.


Same here, bizarre !


----------



## Charity

And here


----------



## blade100

I've had no issues getting to view this thread.


----------



## Matrod

And here, although the whole forum is going slow for me tonight


----------



## belleboris

Sat twiddling my thumbs here , 
Will get some Bonnie spam to keep people happy .
Hopefully baby peaches for pics soon


----------



## Catharinem

Cooee, only me ( pops head round door).


----------



## Zephodi

I've been following this thread and after seeing there was 6 new pages I thought she'd surely had them now! Oh well, going for Thursday and 4, hope all goes well when the buns decide to come out!


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Just popping in to check all is well


----------



## loroll1991

Only meeeee 

I forgot to mention, I had a dream last night and it seemed so real. I woke up and logged in and saw a photo of Bonnie and *two* beautiful babies (I still go with my original guess of 3 though!).. we were all over the moon! I woke up at 3am and was sooooo excited and logged straight in to see if it was real or i had dreamt it 

You keep those babies baking for as long as they need to be beautiful Bonnie, but not too long as your PF Auntie's can't wait to meet your little ones hehe  xxx


----------



## Jiskefet

I keep logging on to see if the little ones have arrived, too.
Don't keep us in suspense any longer, sweet Bonnie....


----------



## Soozi

Well I've chewed my fingernails so much I'm down to my elbows! lol!
xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

I think one of these kittens should be called Guinness - good things come to those who wait!!!


----------



## sarahecp

Still checking in and hoping each time I do we have news of beautiful babies  


Peaches is the top of my list for names


----------



## belleboris

She's just leaked some clear liquid on my floor , only a small amount like 2ml and now she's having a mad half hour ! 
More playful than she's been ever with me and bit my hand !


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> She's just leaked some clear liquid on my floor , only a small amount like 2ml and now she's having a mad half hour !
> More playful than she's been ever with me and bit my hand !


OMG I wonder if this is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Could this be it??? Lynn said there isn't a water breakage as such but maybe there is a bit of amniotic leakage!

Is amniotic fluid clear? Never had a baby or witnessed it!


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> She's just leaked some clear liquid on my floor , only a small amount like 2ml and now she's having a mad half hour !
> More playful than she's been ever with me and bit my hand !


OMG is it time?!?!!


----------



## ab1g41l

Oh my God I said midnight tonight  come on bonnie! Have a nice easy and healthy birth. Sending all the vibes :Kiss


----------



## Soozi

I've just read that the mum can have a vaginal discharge this is stage 1 of labour! OMG!!!!!!!!!xxx


----------



## belleboris

I've no idea , hoping for both of us , 
Shes having a mad half hour still


----------



## Soozi

You may not even notice the first stage, as the cervix and uterus are preparing for delivery.
Contractions will start to happen, but may not be visible to your watchful eye.
Your cat will become very restless, pace as if she is looking for something, and be very vocal.
She may also make several unproductive trips to the litterbox, but hopefully will settle into her maternity bed.
Don't be surprised if she chooses another spot, as she may not be used to her maternity bed or just fancy giving birth somewhere else. Don't move her - it's always safer to let her give birth where she chooses.
She may also start experiencing a vaginal discharge.


----------



## loroll1991

If this is it:

Good luck beautiful Bonnie and @belleboris you are both truly amazing, and I really do hope it is as quick, healthy and easy birth as possible!

You have nearly the whole of Cat Chat (and lots of members from the other parts of PF) looking out for you here  xxx


----------



## catcoonz

sometimes you see a discharge .... sounds good apart from the mad half hour, what is that about.
Bonnie should be looking for her nesting box, not racing around.


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I've no idea , hoping for both of us ,
> Shes having a mad half hour still


It sounds like she is in the first stages of labour Hun! xxx


----------



## ZoeM

Maybe she's heard about when humans want to go into labour and they do crazy things like eat curry, and run around?? ((This is bound to be the only possible explanation!))


----------



## vivien

I just had a little Google and it sounds like she is in first stages of labour 

Viv xx


----------



## Matrod

C'mon Bonnie, we're all waiting!


----------



## sarahecp

It doesn't say anything about the mad half hour  Bonnie is one of a kind and doesn't want to play by the rule book 

BB if this is it and I've gone to the land of nod, just want to wish you and Bonnie all the luck in the world and here's to an uneventful, easy and safe birth for Bonnie and her babies. 

Lots of love and hugs xxx


----------



## Soozi

Could it be she has decided to look for somewhere else to have them CC?


----------



## The Wild Bunch

JaimeandBree said:


> Is amniotic fluid clear? Never had a baby or witnessed it!


Should be clearish but my waters never broke until they were almost out


----------



## JaimeandBree

Maybe she's had a few twinges and it's freaked her a bit hence the dashing about? No idea really just thinking aloud!

Or maybe she's thinking if I run about maybe it'll kickstart these little monkeys into action, like humans taking a long walk or other forms of exercise to try and jump start it !


----------



## MoggyBaby

MCWillow said:


> Checking in - *then wont be able to after about 5am tomorrow as am on a 2 day conference for work (*my first conference!) - so if she has them after midnight one should be called Connie


I'll text ya if anything kicks off Hilda!!


----------



## The Wild Bunch

I think some girls struggle with pain and run around trying to run away from pain hope this isn't the case here


----------



## ab1g41l

I think there's going to be a lot of people on PF not resting tonight until they've checked this thread 'just one more time...'


----------



## Soozi

JaimeandBree said:


> Maybe she's had a few twinges and it's freaked her a bit hence the dashing about? No idea really just thinking aloud!
> 
> Or maybe she's thinking if I run about maybe it'll kickstart these little monkeys into action, like humans taking a long walk or other forms of exercise to try and jump start it !


My ex neighbours cat was running around in the garden while she was actually giving birth! it's like she didn't know what to do! She was really heavy with kittens too! I think this is the start though! So excited!


----------



## Jellypi3

Good luck to you both if this is it. Bonnie remember, deep breaths!


----------



## loroll1991

Nowhere near bed time for me yet, but I am not too sure I am going to be able to sleep in case 'that update' comes along!


----------



## Forester

What is Bonnie doing now @belleboris ?


----------



## belleboris

She's on my lap puring and licking my skin away !


----------



## ZoeM

She must be so bonded to you, I guess she needs a lot of reassurance and sounds like you're doing a great job! Bless you both xx


----------



## Citruspips

Right I've got a system...watching 24hrs in A&E then pop on in the ads to see what's happening Good luck Bonnie Xx


----------



## Forester

belleboris said:


> She's on my lap puring and licking my skin away !


Thanks.  Its good to know that she's taking it easy,. . . . and taking reassurance from you. You clearly have a very special bond.

cross posted with Zoe M


----------



## mrs phas

Bonnie youre even dragging doggie people in - unheard of

@belleboris you must be exhausted already {{{hugs}}} to keep you uplifted xx


----------



## JTK79

Fingers crossed for some babies soon


----------



## MerlinsMum

It may have been her mucus plug.

Bear in mind that most of the litters I've bred/kitwifed, the plug loss wasn't noticed at all... although my last litter some years ago, I did recognise its loss. All the old cat books written by experienced breeders never mentioned it either.

However once the plug has gone, first stage labour may come very soon after, but could also be 12+ hrs or more.

Waters do not always break, as ideally kittens are born with the sac intact, though some may pass a fluid-filled bubble. Saying that, with my first ever litter, the first kitten was born with a ruptured sac - I didn't see any fluid, so mum must have cleaned it up. The first thing I saw was a small pinky-red furled thing like a leaf poking out of her vulva... which was the first kitten's tongue.

(Is there _anyone_ on PF who isn't following this?)


----------



## Obiit

MerlinsMum said:


> (Is there _anyone_ on PF who isn't following this?)


Don't think so!

Yes another lurker with best wishes and fingers crossed


----------



## Siskin

I am @MerlinsMum and I'm definitely a dog person not a cat person, but this has been just fascinating. I wonder how many dog chatters are following this?


----------



## Jiskefet

Come on, Bonnie....


----------



## moggie14

Off to bed now, hope all goes well overnight and if kittens don't arrive fingers crossed you both get a bit of rest - see you in the morning! xx


----------



## redroses2106

I am another one who has been watching and following this thread, good luck Bonnie!


----------



## MerlinsMum

Siskin said:


> I am @MerlinsMum and I'm definitely a dog person not a cat person, but this has been just fascinating. I wonder how many dog chatters are following this?


I'm more cats and small animals in the breeding knowledge department, never bred dogs (and don't plan to), but a special pussycat litter like this one makes me heave with nostalgia.....


----------



## ZoeM

Ive just watched a cat give birth via youtube... just to get the whole experience lol. It was amazing... did also say it could be 24 hours and completely normal.. so best of luck bonnie and belleboris xxxx


----------



## Soozi

Siskin said:


> I am @MerlinsMum and I'm definitely a dog person not a cat person, but this has been just fascinating. I wonder how many dog chatters are following this?


Awww that's lovely of you to support Bonnie and BB I think we all love animals in general. xxx


----------



## MerlinsMum

ZoeM said:


> Ive just watched a cat give birth via youtube... just to get the whole experience lol. It was amazing... did also say it could be 24 hours and completely normal.. so best of luck bonnie and belleboris xxxx


Births are as individual as the cats themselves, although when you have had a litter alongside a breeding queen, her subsequent births are even more special as you'll know her little quirks. One girl of mine ahd a few kittens, then waited 24 hrs to have the rest. Now, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.... I don't think I've ever been so sleep-deprived in my life...


----------



## Elsiebea

@belleboris you must be exhausted and the most famous person on here right now, if this was twitter you and Bonnie would be trending


----------



## catcoonz

Right.... come on Bonnie, I have just finished assisting with a delivery of 7 kittens, now just waiting for you to have your beautiful babies.


----------



## JaimeandBree

I love how many dog chatters are now following this, how did that happen, did word spread on the jungle drums haha? Anyway, you're all very welcome, it's lovely how many people are pulling for Bonnie!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Elsiebea said:


> @belleboris you must be exhausted and the most famous person on here right now, if this was twitter you and Bonnie would be trending


I can see it now.... #bonniesbabies #pfershavenopatience


----------



## Cookies mum

OK OK don't PANIC :Joyful looking for volunteers.......
who will boil the water?
who is organizing the towels?
who is making the biggest pot of tea ever!!!!!!!!!!!!?
and please all walk in the same direction to pace!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Little P

Gah! Just come home from work to over 100 new messages and still no squittens! Just taken an antihistamine to venture into cat chat for no reason...!

Back to dog chat I go...

ACHOO!


----------



## Siskin

JaimeandBree said:


> I love how many dog chatters are now following this, how did that happen, did word spread on the jungle drums haha? Anyway, you're all very welcome, it's lovely how many people are pulling for Bonnie!


It was building into a long thread and they are usually always good for something whether it's good or bad:Smuggrin. And the I kinda got dragged in


----------



## Tigermoon

Fluid within the placental sac will be released as the kitten breaks through this in order to be born, regardless of whether it comes out within the internal sac or not. It's not a great gush like in women and Queens will be quick to try and clean this away, usually they fail and the evidence is left on the bedding or the carpet. Once this happens labour in earnest usually isn't far behind.

Good luck Bonnie and belleboris. Hopefully you will have a quick and easy birth and happy, healthy kittens will soon make their presence felt


----------



## SusieRainbow

I remember a friend ( colleague ) telling us about assisting her cat giving birth, she was a midwife too ! This was actually the birth of my cat , now 16, and the rest of her litter. She said if we thought it ws tricky tryng to get a human baby to latch on and feed we should try it with kittens. Sadly Georgia's ( aka Scratty ) mum was run over not long after she had the litter ,she was very young .
When we went to choose our kitten at 6 weeks colleagues daughter was carrying them all around in an old fashioned shopping basket, so sweet ! 
But enough reminiscing from me, I'll keep checking, I love babies, kittens, puppies, can't wait for pics !


----------



## Jiskefet

I know that when I go to bed, I will have my phone right next to me, and whenever I wake up (usually between 2 and 6 times per night), I will be checking this thread.


----------



## Matrod

I really need to go to bed I'm so tired but I cannot drag myself away from this! I think it's great how many people have come to this thread to offer their support & share in the excitement


----------



## belleboris

Well somethings odd she won't come sit on my unless I'm on the bed , I need some tea and 5 min and she's sat starting at me from the bottom step


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Well somethings odd she won't come sit on my unless I'm on the bed , I need some tea and 5 min and she's sat starting at me from the bottom step


It did sound earlier in the thread that the bed was her chosen spot for nesting, that could be why, she wants you to stay with her on the bed bless her. Better take the cuppa back to bed haha


----------



## Cookies mum

Better get someone to make the tea for you....looks like she wants your full attention now


----------



## Soozi

Little P said:


> Gah! Just come home from work to over 100 new messages and still no squittens! Just taken an antihistamine to venture into cat chat for no reason...!
> 
> Back to dog chat I go...
> 
> ACHOO!


Lol!!!:Hilarious


----------



## catcoonz

is her nesting box near the bed.
my queen was on my bed but as soon as she started panting she went in her box, bonnie just needs some reassurance that all is ok, perfectly natural and shows she trusts you.


----------



## Soozi

Cookies mum said:


> Better get someone to make the tea for you....looks like she wants your full attention now


Can you make that a large brandy for me please! xxx


----------



## Cookies mum

Soozi said:


> Can you make that a large brandy for me please! xxx


No problem  anyone else what a drink? I have 5 types of tea, proper coffee and 2 types of hot chocolate, but I refuse to share my vimto or winter spiced Ribena


----------



## Soozi

Cookies mum said:


> No problem  anyone else what a drink? I have 5 types of tea, proper coffee and 2 types of hot chocolate, but I refuse to share my vimto or winter spiced Ribena


Oh I've changed my mind I'll have hot chocolate! Oh go on then stick a brandy in it! Lol! xxx 
I keep thinking that by refreshing the page something will happen!


----------



## Little Zooey

I never use my mobile phone but I've brought it to bed. Good night and good luck


----------



## silvi

Ooh. It's looking close now.
Good luck to you and Bonnie xxx


----------



## Matrod

I can't stay awake anymore :Yawn good luck @belleboris - hope nothing dramatic happens & there's pictures of kitties in the morning


----------



## loroll1991

Looks like it isn't going to be too long now!! 



Cookies mum said:


> No problem  anyone else what a drink? I have 5 types of tea, proper coffee and 2 types of hot chocolate, but I refuse to share my vimto or winter spiced Ribena


What tea have you got going there? One of these would be lovely please


----------



## Elsiebea

JaimeandBree said:


> I can see it now.... #bonniesbabies #pfershavenopatience


I'm on twitter and I know a few celebs who would retweet if I posted about this... Maybe I should spread the word.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Elsiebea said:


> I'm on twitter and I know a few celebs who would retweet if I posted about this... Maybe I should spread the word.


Ooh gosh, there's enough people on tenterhooks without getting the Twitterati involved lol!!!:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Elsiebea

JaimeandBree said:


> Ooh gosh, there's enough people on tenterhooks without getting the Twitterati involved lol!!!:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


Too true! It's taken me quite a while to get on here and check progress as the site said it was down.. :Nailbiting


----------



## JaimeandBree

Elsiebea said:


> Too true! It's taken me quite a while to get on here and check progress as the site said it was down.. :Nailbiting


It's been running slow tonight, will be typical if it breaks just as the action kicks off!!!


----------



## Cookies mum

loroll1991 said:


> Looks like it isn't going to be too long now!!
> 
> What tea have you got going there? One of these would be lovely please


got Assam, fruit tea, english breakfast and even a good quality loose leaf tea oh and common and garden Tetleys


----------



## loroll1991

Cookies mum said:


> got Assam, fruit tea, english breakfast and even a good quality loose leaf tea oh and common and garden Tetleys


I'll have a loose leaf tea please  lovely jubbly, this is going to be a long night!


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Oooh if it's after midnight and three sweet babies I guessed right!
When I had a baby I didn't want anyone looking at me, she obviously wants you right there with her, a little exhibitionist!


----------



## ab1g41l

I think the site was down because everyone was pressing refresh on this thread at once :Hilarious


----------



## loroll1991

Milo has decided he wants to be on kitten watch now too!


----------



## vivien

I am off to bed now too. I had to look in to see how Bonnie was doing. Good luck beautiful Bonnie I hope you have an easy labour. I will be looking in first thing in the morning. 

Viv xx


----------



## QOTN

As has already been said girls often clean away any discharge. (I am not suggesting for a minute that this will happen with Bonnie but one of my girls used to have some for a few days before she gave birth.) Let's hope she gets over her rushing around the place before there is a kitten hanging.


----------



## catcoonz

My first ever cat labour I got so excited with the discharge she made me wait 3 days, by which time I was so tired I missed it by falling asleep.


----------



## belleboris

Please don't say I'll be doing this for another few days , I just carnt do it


----------



## buffie

Looks like my guess at early Wednesday morning may be correct .If it happens after I have logged off,good luck to all for a safe arrival xx


----------



## ZoeM

@belleboris Im sure your darling will wake you up if the contractions start, if I were you I'd try to nap a little. x


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well I must go to bed now or I'll be no use tomorrow, much as I'd love to be awake when the action happens I actually do hope they come overnight, mostly because it will be a relief for BB and Bonnie when they are safely here and also partly because I've a fair bit to do at work tomorrow and that will be hampered if I'm sneaking a look at PF on my phone every 5 minutes for kitten watch! 

Topping up the good vibes and no doubt I'll be having a quick look during the night again if I wake up!  Xxx


----------



## Catharinem

Come on, only 6 minutes until midnight.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Just drinking my tea and listening to this!


----------



## Tigermoon

Just checking ... my goodness the suspense :Nailbiting


----------



## blade100

I'm also checking in.
Bless her I hope you both get some kip xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Well I'm off to bed, will catch up in the morning. Good luck Bonbon! xxx


----------



## Tigermoon

Well my insomnia has kicked in tonight!


----------



## loroll1991

Woke up randomly and had to check in straight away  hope all is ok?? Xx


----------



## blade100

Checking in xx


----------



## Jiskefet

Stiĺl no babies?


----------



## sarahecp

I actually had a good nights sleep, I think I must have needed it. 

I'm just checking in, hope all is well xx


----------



## MissPink

Checking in


----------



## huckybuck

When I saw page 45 I thought I'd missed it! 

Willing everything to be ok xxxx


----------



## Carzana

If they come today they will share a birthday with my Megs x hope shes doing ok x


----------



## idris

Good morning ,I hope she did not sleep on your head again. Good luck for today x


----------



## Tigermoon

Still no kittens?


----------



## vivien

Just popping in to see if there is any news. I hope you and Bonnie are ok. 

Viv xx


----------



## Forester

I hope that you've managed to get some rest BB ( as well as the beautiful Bonnie ). Fingers crossed that this *is *the day.

I have to go out now and will be incommunicado for a while but as soon as I'm back looking on here will be the first thing I do.

Wishing you luck if it all kicks off whilst I'm out.


----------



## moggie14

I hope you eventually had a restful night! Good luck for today Bonnie! EEEKKK!!!  XXX


----------



## Charity

Just popping by, no news? OK, back later


----------



## Vienna1

I must have been dreaming I was convinced I'd seen pictures of three babies when I woke in the night.


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Maybe the lack of response is because Bonnie is birthing


----------



## GingerNinja

daisysmama said:


> Maybe the lack of response is because Bonnie is birthing


 Or BB is getting in some last minute zzzzs 

Good luck bonnie xxx


----------



## Matrod

I was sure there would be kittens by this morning! Good luck today BB, hope you got some sleep :Wacky


----------



## Chippers

I'm going to keep this tab open all day at work...I guessed today! Good luck Bonnie :Cat


----------



## loroll1991

Really hope you both had a good night BB and Bonnie xx


----------



## Burmesemum

Hope you are both ok. You are doing a fantastic job you should be extremely proud of yourself the way you have handled everything.


----------



## MiloandTazzy

I hope everything is well with Bonnie today and you both got some sleep.


----------



## Jenny1966

Shhhh I'm at work and shouldn't be logged in, just checking ...... Carry on


----------



## huckybuck

More data roaming lol!


----------



## Jellypi3

Hmm CC has also been very quiet...me thinks we may have babies!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Hope all is well, I checked in a couple of times in the night though I didn't post xx


----------



## mrs phas

Sending strengthening hugs and a virtual cuppa


----------



## MoggyBaby

Checking in and am noting nothing from BB or Bonnie since last night. Really hoping that all is ok. Everything crossed here that everyone comes out the other side safely and well. xxx


----------



## blade100

Well I'm off to bed for a few hours (Was on nite shift) so fingers crossed there will be some news when I get up at midday


----------



## Buttons1

Just checking in too. I was determined not to get hooked!


----------



## catcoonz

Ive not heard anything.
Hope all is ok.


----------



## Azriel391

Jenny1966 said:


> Shhhh I'm at work and shouldn't be logged in, just checking ...... Carry on


me too @Jenny1966 shhhh - good luck Bonnie and @belleboris xxx


----------



## Soozi

Awww I'm glad I didn't miss it! I'm sure it will all be ok but will be relieved when we hear from. BB. xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Really hope everything is OK as BB hasn't been seen since 11pm last night!! Have everything crossed that if babies came last night, all went safely and smoothly! xx


----------



## Soozi

loroll1991 said:


> Really hope everything is OK as BB hasn't been seen since 11pm last night!! Have everything crossed that if babies came last night, all went safely and smoothly! xx


I'm sure she would have let us know Hun! Every thing crossed but it did sound like Bonnie was in labour when we last heard. Xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

loroll1991 said:


> Really hope everything is OK as BB hasn't been seen since 11pm last night!! Have everything crossed that if babies came last night, all went safely and smoothly! xx


I am hoping all it means is that BB and Bonnie are catching some much needed zzzzzzs, perhaps with a litter of babies snuggled up beside them! Fingers toes paws and everything crossed!!


----------



## Susan M

I'm sure everything is fine, @belleboris has children too don't forget


----------



## Soozi

I feel for BB she's had this pregnancy forced on her without any experience it must have been daunting to say the least bless her she deserves a medal! I do hope she's ok and we are Aunties. xxx love and hugs being sent. xxx


----------



## belleboris

Still no kittens .


----------



## vivien

Soozi said:


> I feel for BB she's had this pregnancy forced on her without any experience it must have been daunting to say the least bless her she deserves a medal! I do hope she's ok and we are Aunties. xxx love and hugs being sent. xxx


I agree Soozi. I hope all is ok too. More hugs from me and the boys.

Viv xx


----------



## vivien

belleboris said:


> Still no kittens .


Thank you BB. I don't think it will be long now . Hugs

Viv xx


----------



## loroll1991

belleboris said:


> Still no kittens .


Aww BB, I really don't think it'll be much longer.. hope you had a better sleep last night xx


----------



## huckybuck

Does Bonnie seem OK? Can you feel the kittens still? Hope you are bearing up xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Still no kittens .


Hope you got some rest BB! Is Bonnie showing any further signs of labour? Hugs to you, this must be quite exhausting xxx


----------



## belleboris

Sorry for lack of response last night she settled on me at about 2
And stayed asleep curled up on my chest ( perfect for me to get sleep as she wakes me licking my face after a sleep ) 
And mornings are mad in this house .


----------



## huckybuck

Phew! As long as you and she are both ok that's all we need to know. Xxx


----------



## Catharinem

Know all about morning madness with children.


----------



## Soozi

Awww Hun just pleased to hear from you and you and Bonnie are ok. Let's hope it will be today. Get as much rest as you can if Bonnie is settled Hun. Sending love! xxx


----------



## belleboris

Bonnie is doing fine she's alert and happy still eating like a pig !
The rest must have done us both good , I did get woken to a full arm and face clean ! That tongue is like sand paper .


----------



## carly87

Really surprised she hasn't dropped them yet. When did her milk come in? It can be up to 72 hours after that happens, so any time now really. Watch out for her visiting the litter tray a lot, and be prepared that she might try to have them in there. One of my girls was so neat and clean that she got very, very distressed every time I tried to take her out of her tray as she thought she needed a poo and didn't understand that she was having kittens. In the end, I had to tip the litter and line it with puppy pads, then just turf her out every time she had one, so I could grab it and get it going.

Just let her have the babies wherever she wants provided it's accessible for you to get to and help out if needed.

I will always keep a large empty litter tray on hand now for births as I think they make a really excellent nest while mum is pushing, and have the added benefit that they can be completely washed out in between.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

A watched pot never boils, and if PF was Twitter Bonnie would be trending!

I hope you are managing to relax @belleboris.


----------



## Cookies mum

Sounds like Bonnie is happy and content, enjoying the attention whilst she continues to cook up her kittens, every day they get stronger


----------



## belleboris

Milk came in Monday dinner time .
I have a tray lined with a fleece for any kittens than need moving while mum is pushing or shocked .
I can feel them moving , well I can always feel one kicking away on the right side


----------



## belleboris

Also the feliway is in the hall should I move it to the room or turn it off ? 
I got it for aspen when she came 

And just had an epic fluffy post of new cat toys for the girls  is it sad I'm excited about them ? Need to get out more ,,, soon ,,, still waiting


----------



## SusieRainbow

Shoshannah said:


> A watched pot never boils, and if PF was Twitter Bonnie would be trending!
> 
> I hope you are managing to relax @belleboris.


I was thinking that myself , we should all log off for 24 hours . Yeah , right !


----------



## Erenya

me, currently.....


----------



## Lulus mum

I definitely think 1 of her kittens should be named Patience-after what her mum and all P F members have been for the last 48 pages.
Sending BIG HUGS and hoping for news soon as you both must be exhausted.
My little 10 yr old ginger boy Ollie sends hugs too and said he is glad HE isnt a girl cat 
Maureen


----------



## Ali71

Aww, just checking in, been out of the office no Wifi! What did we do before the internet! I think @Shoshannah is spot on, Bonnie would have her own hashtag. We are the #pfaunties!

Take care of yourselves and enjoy the peace and quiet for now


----------



## Cookies mum

ohhh almost Thursday....my guess with 5 beautiful kitts 3 girls and 2 boys


----------



## Little Zooey

I can't believe I'm sitting here pressing the refresh button...


----------



## Cookies mum

Little Zooey said:


> I can't believe I'm sitting here pressing the refresh button...


I can  Cause I am doing it as well


----------



## MCWillow

Wow! Just checked into hotel room and was sure I'd miss it! Having a cuppa now - glad I brought my Kindle and have free WiFi! Good luck, hope it's soon!


----------



## Jiskefet

Bonnie sure knows how to captivate an audience...
We are all glued to the computer.


----------



## blade100

It might be best once she's had the kittens to start a fresh thread but put a link to this one in the new thread.
Hope all is well at the B&B house


----------



## cats galore

This reminds me so much of when I first joined asking for advice with Tabitha. She went on forever too...


----------



## moggie14

Another day at work and just come home and logged in. Surprised no action yet, so hope all is well with Bonnie xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Lulus mum said:


> I definitely think 1 of her kittens should be named Patience-after what her mum and all P F members have been for the last 48 pages.
> Sending BIG HUGS and hoping for news soon as you both must be exhausted.
> My little 10 yr old ginger boy Ollie sends hugs too and said he is glad HE isnt a girl cat
> Maureen


I'm not sure I would describe us as patient exactly.....


----------



## huckybuck

Arghhh time difference..I'm so scared I'll miss something! Nite nite BB and B. Stay relaxed, healthy and safe. See you tomorrow xxx


----------



## Tweety1977

We are certainly bot being very patient! Lol!

I've been in and out all day!


----------



## ZoeM

Hiya BB, I dont think the feliway will do any harm - probably okay to leave it wherever you want it.

Glad you got some sleep last night and are looking after yourself x


----------



## Soozi

Still hoping It won't be long before Bonnie has her babies! How is she this evening @belleboris? Sending lots of love and hugs to you all!!xxx


----------



## Lulus mum

JaimeandBree said:


> I'm not sure I would describe us as patient exactly.....


Well I didnt think "SLEEP DEPRIVED" ,EXASPERATED or NO! NOT PAGE 100 would be good names.,but that is just my opinion.
Perhaps she is waiting till tomorrow so we can call them "Guy"or ,Bommie( Liverpool for bonfire)or Banger-only joking.
Hope everything goes well ,
I have got a flask of tea, a book and an alarm clock ready for tonight,
Maureen


----------



## Tigermoon

Goodness still no kittens?? Surely it can't be much longer now


----------



## ZoeM

A kitten could be called Imp (for impatience!)


----------



## belleboris

No kittens still but she's hiding under the bed now ! 
Sat on my suit case ,


----------



## SusieRainbow

Lulus mum said:


> Well I didnt think "SLEEP DEPRIVED" ,EXASPERATED or NO! NOT PAGE 100 would be good names.,but that is just my opinion.
> Perhaps she is waiting till tomorrow so we can call them "Guy"or ,Bommie( Liverpool for bonfire)or Banger-only joking.
> Hope everything goes well ,
> I have got a flask of tea, a book and an alarm clock ready for tonight,
> Maureen


My dog was born on Bonfire Night 12 years ago, her litter were all named after fireworks , she is Golden Tango, one of her brothers Bonfire Knight.


----------



## Cookies mum

bonfire names...Guy, Rocket, Jumping Jack, Blossom (type of aerial display ) Cherry(bomb),Sparks/Sparkler,

But I still like Mr Boo as one kittens name


----------



## Shrike

Some more firework names:
Catherine (wheel)
Roman (candle)
Rocky (Rocket)
Sparky
Crackerjack (One for any fans of Breaking Cat News)


----------



## JTK79

Checking in for news! Still no sign of babies!


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> No kittens still but she's hiding under the bed now !
> Sat on my suit case ,


They often go into weird places to give birth cupboards, under the stairs all sorts of places. I think it's going to be very soon. Hope you are ok sweetie! Hugs xxx


----------



## belleboris

I dodnt think it would be this long , and I guess if she's happy and the smalls are kicking away it's all good .









I like the name boo as it was my nickname through school


----------



## lymorelynn

Aww - give that tummy a rub from me :Cat She looks so relaxed


----------



## claire8234

Wow that's an impressive belly! X


----------



## sarahecp

Aww beautiful Bonnie, you look sooo chilled lying there :Joyful


----------



## Cookies mum

aww I love that picture, I so want to rub that belly


----------



## Soozi

Oh Bonnie I do hope some of that belly is wind! Lol! Just relax until the time is right sweetheart! Tonight would be good though! Hugs xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Gosh I didn't think she could get any bigger but she has! Bless her, she's looks very chilled!


----------



## popcornsmum

Awww bless her all chilled out!


----------



## catcoonz

Huge belly for just 2 kittens.
Bonnie looks very relaxed.


----------



## Azriel391

Tummy mummy rubs for Bonnie, hugs @belleboris , hang in there, mittens will arrive xx


----------



## KCTT

I think the problem is that Bonnie is making those little kittens way to comfortable and snug where they are they are in no hurry to move out. You are doing a grand job @belleboris I don't envy your sleepless days/nights but you are doing such a great job xx


----------



## Hanlou

Aww bless her xx

Just popping in the thread to wish you and Bonnie well! Still following and watching....!  xx


----------



## moggie14

Another night and off to bed, sending lots of kittening vibes for tonight! Hugs xx


----------



## idris

I remember late pregnancy, I was so uncomfortable . Bless her little heart xx


----------



## belleboris

Wonder if there are just two in there ? He's been v wrong about the date ! 
He said she won't go over two weeks that was 17 days ago


----------



## Tigermoon

In my experience vets are appalling at predicting the date of birth from a scan (sorry Shoshannah ). 

Bonnie is looking very relaxed. I think she is enjoying all the attention she is getting


----------



## loroll1991

Bonnie looks very relaxed  my prediction of 3 on Friday could still be in for a chance  xx


----------



## catcoonz

Scans are only a guess, I don't predict due dates from them.


----------



## Elsiebea

Hope it's tonight for you x


----------



## silvi

Just checking in again....
Best wishes for tonight...hopefully! xx


----------



## sarahecp

I'm off to bed soon, just wanted to wish you both a good night and if babies do start to come I'll be keeping everything crossed that all goes well xx


----------



## Cookies mum

I am off to bed, hope we have some kitten news in the morning


----------



## loroll1991

Another one off to bed, hope you both get a good nights sleep! If it's tonight, good luck to the both of you and really hope it goes as smooth and as easy as can be! Xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

I'll be off to bed soon too, as Bonnie has had such a chilled day today compared to the last two when she got us all excited I'm going to predict she'll be a contrary miss and have them overnight 

If that does happen then once again best of luck and good wishes  xxx


----------



## Jeano1471

Ive told yas its gonna be sunday when the little darlings arrive haha i can feel it in my waters haha xx


----------



## belleboris

Of all the places she needs to sleep !







Will still do this after?


----------



## catcoonz

Im also going to bed, you have my number if you need me.
Don't think tonight is the night for kittens though.


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Of all the places she needs to sleep !
> View attachment 250613
> Will still do this after?


Oh bless her!!! Must be so uncomfortable for you though. I read that they can become very clingy in the late stages so I would imagine it wouldn't be the same once no longer pregnant unless she is clingy normally anyway. At least it shows that she loves and trusts you which is what you need in a situation like this xxx


----------



## Forester

I can't believe that this thread could do with a "bump

I was going to say "come on Bonnie" but maybe not now when we all need a sleep.
How about tomorrow,girl? Please not Friday evening, I'm supposed to go out. If those buns aren't out of the oven I think that I might feel too poorly to go.


----------



## lorilu

belleboris said:


> Of all the places she needs to sleep !
> View attachment 250613
> Will still do this after?


Maybe not right away, she'll be a bit busy, but once the babbies are all raised and weaned...I'm sure she'll be your girl again. xx


----------



## MissPink

Been woken up by my own cat prodding my head, just had to check in to see if there was any news yet


----------



## huckybuck

Oh Bonnie I hope she is still as clingy afterwards though maybe the chest will suffice. 

Hope you've had a good sleep and are both well rested in case today is the day!


----------



## Little Zooey

We have Romanian rescues who are just as clingy. I reckon Bonnie will stay the same


----------



## Little Zooey

Who is going to make the one thousandth post?


----------



## idris

Me!  morning loves , still no kitties ? Wow baking them to puuurfection.


----------



## moggie14

Wow 50 pages and 1000 posts - Bonnie is a celebrity!  I hope all is well this morning and maybe today is the day eh? :Cat


----------



## sarahecp

idris said:


> Me!  morning loves , still no kitties ? Wow baking them to puuurfection.


1000th post  

I agree, she sure is baking them to purrfection  

I think Bonnie is just enjoying all this extra attention  she's going to keep us hanging on a little bit longer


----------



## vivien

Morning just looking I'm to see if all is ok with you and Bonnie. 

Viv xx


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Just checking in, come on Bonnie, at this rate I'll have my baby before you do! :Happy


----------



## Forester

Oh well, at least I haven't missed their arrival


----------



## MoggyBaby

Moggy Towers checking in for the day. Cigars & Champers still on stand-by ready for the special moment.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Morning all! Well I wonder if Bonnie will give us bonfire night babies, my guess on the other thread was 3 kittens today


----------



## loroll1991

Bonnie, hold out until 12:00am Friday morning sweetie hehe  xx


----------



## Burmesemum

50 pages and I thought "this must be it!" but it isn't lol.

Hope you and Bonnie had a restful night.


----------



## Azriel391

Popping in to 'Kittenwatch' viewing figures on a par with Autumnwatch  Hoping you had a restful night and wishing all the best for Bonnie & @belleboris for today xx


----------



## Cookies mum

Come on Bonnie we PFAuntys can not take much more waiting


----------



## buffie

Just me checking in.......................


----------



## Soozi

Morning BB.and Bonnie! So we are still not Aunties! Maybe today Bonnie? Rest up sweet girl. Hugs and love! xxx


----------



## Obiit

I'm just thinking - will the system be able to cope with the number of Likes the first picture of the kittens will get?

I hope so as i want to see them REAL BAD


----------



## JTK79

Still no babies? Really hope they don't keep us waiting too much longer


----------



## popcornsmum

Wow this is a huge thread!!! Bless little Bonnie!!! OH just text me from work saying "Are there any kittens yet?!" Hahaha!  I hope Bonnie is doing okay!


----------



## Jesthar

Well, my next door neighbour popped out a son yesterday, so maybe it's little Bonnie's turn to pop out some kits today


----------



## belleboris

Still nothing  I'm sorry people but she must like being fat and uncomfortable lol .
She spent the night digging my face if I didn't let her lay on it so didn't get the best sleep , 
She's now snoozing up on my pillow !


----------



## ab1g41l

belleboris said:


> Still nothing  I'm sorry people but she must like being fat and uncomfortable lol .
> She spent the night digging my face if I didn't let her lay on it so didn't get the best sleep ,
> She's now snoozing up on my pillow !


Aww bless her. It will be such a relief when they're born. Hope you get some rest soon! :Kiss


----------



## Vienna1

Bless her she's holding on. She's quite famous now, these kittens have no idea how eagerly awaited they are.


----------



## huckybuck

Fat and uncomfortable but happy and healthy...way to go Bonnie lass xx


----------



## belleboris

What you got me mum ?


----------



## belleboris

Excuse my bum I won't let mum clean it now  
Pic for cc to show the drop


----------



## catcoonz

Lovely low belly and can see teats full of milk......
kittens very soon. xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Almost choked on my BLT when I saw BB had posted again lol 

Glad you think not long now CC!


----------



## Matrod

Take your time Bonnie, I've got 4 days off work :Smuggrin


----------



## belleboris

Nooooo not 4 more nights of her bounding on my face


----------



## Matrod

belleboris said:


> Nooooo not 4 more nights of her bounding on my face


I honestly don't know how you cope with her lying on your face every night! I can't be much longer surely, hope she gets them out soon :Cat


----------



## belleboris

Lol I love you all asking if kittens are here yet and getting as excited as me but a fb friend is pregnant and someone just posted this on her wall !!! Hehe sennding her a pic of my pregnant girl and saying no hehe


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> View attachment 250653
> Lol I love you all asking if kittens are here yet and getting as excited as me but a fb friend is pregnant and someone just posted this on her wall !!! Hehe sennding her a pic of my pregnant girl and saying no hehe


PMSL!!!! That pic makes Bonnie look slim! lol! XXX


----------



## lymorelynn

belleboris said:


> View attachment 250653
> Lol I love you all asking if kittens are here yet and getting as excited as me but a fb friend is pregnant and someone just posted this on her wall !!! Hehe sennding her a pic of my pregnant girl and saying no hehe


Perfect


----------



## huckybuck

So glad you have your sense of humour BB. You must have been through so much angst...by the time babies decide to come cone you'll be like "yeah.....whatever!!!!!"


----------



## Little Zooey

That was very nearly a soup over keyboard moment...


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> View attachment 250653
> Lol I love you all asking if kittens are here yet and getting as excited as me but a fb friend is pregnant and someone just posted this on her wall !!! Hehe sennding her a pic of my pregnant girl and saying no hehe


That's got to be photoshopped!


----------



## catcoonz

lol, laughing so much I dropped my coffee.


----------



## catcoonz

Looking at that belly, I predict 7 kittens.
If only 2 are born, that will be the biggest belly in history.


----------



## Shrike

Catharinem said:


> That's got to be photoshopped!


I dunno - this cat was in a pen I sponsor for Cats Protection:
http://lovemeow.com/2014/12/rescue-cat-mama-gave-birth-10-kittens/

I do think Bonnie has more than two, but hopefully not 10!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Good thing I wasn't still eating my lunch when I looked at that picture or I'd definitely have choked this time!!!


----------



## belleboris

Haha when they finally do come , I'll be tucking them in .turning the heating up , feeding mum a huge meal and then taking myself to the sofa with chocolate , cake , and lots of fizzy pop ( I don't drink or it would be a bottle of wine )


----------



## catcoonz

if she eats all the placenta's don't worry if she doesn't eat until the day after.


----------



## Soozi

I'll be raising a very large glass of wine when the babies arrive! xxx


----------



## vivien

Wow that is one big belly. She definitely has more than two there I reckon . I bet Bonnie will be relieved once the kittens are born bless her. 

Viv xx


----------



## Vienna1

Wow poor girl looks about ready to pop. Hope it's soon and a quick labour for you both xx


----------



## Cookies mum

I have a bottle of mulled cordial waiting...Bonnie please dont keep me waiting too long....the bottle looks so yummy


----------



## moggie14

belleboris said:


> Haha when they finally do come , I'll be tucking them in .turning the heating up , feeding mum a huge meal and then taking myself to the sofa with chocolate , cake , and lots of fizzy pop ( I don't drink or it would be a bottle of wine )


Don't worry sweetie - I'll neck the bottle of wine for you! Gosh the waiting is killing me!


----------



## QOTN

If she eats all the placentas you could have to interrupt your celebrations to clean litter trays!


----------



## loroll1991

awwww poor little love, look at the size of that belly! Xxx


----------



## belleboris

I'm not bothered about litter tray cleaning  I can eat chocolate straight after , not squeamish or fussy here


----------



## JTK79

I thought there might be some news that babies were on there way! Still nice and comfy


----------



## claire8234

My little boy saw the picture of Bonnie and asked me if she had been eating too many cat biscuits!!


----------



## Forester

JTK79 said:


> I thought there might be some news that babies were on there way! Still nice and comfy


BB's post had the same effect on me. When I saw that she'd posted my heart beat a little faster. Back to waiting. . . . .


----------



## Soozi

Seems endless waiting! A lot longer than it has actually been! Serves me right for looking in every 5 minutes! Back to refresh! Lol! :Nailbiting xxx


----------



## belleboris

She's now got the runs , should I be concerned ?


----------



## claire8234

belleboris said:


> She's now got the runs , should I be concerned ?


I know that happens before human birth but couldn't comment on cat birth :/


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> She's now got the runs , should I be concerned ?


I think this might be normal Hun she may be having mild contractions? @catcoonz might be able to help!


----------



## Soozi

@belleboris Just found this too! Best Answer: Diarrhoea in a heavily pregnant cat is a sign of mild contractions,as when the womb contracts it puts pressure on her bowels,so when you seen she had done it in her bed its because she just couldn't hold it in time to get to the litter,pregnant cats too will often urinate in their beds for the same reason,


----------



## JaimeandBree

I would imagine the runs are quite common in late pregnancy, cat, human or otherwise, if there are all sorts of going on in your insides! As Soozi says could be mild contractions causing it?


----------



## Tweety1977

Tonight is the night, I feel it in my waters 

Hope you're bearing up on little sleep BB.


----------



## belleboris

I was just having a look up on it , I guess it's bonfire night also so could be scared but she dosnt seam bothered , I've got the music on and curtains closed aspen is sat on the sil downstairs watching them with the boys


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I was just having a look up on it , I guess it's bonfire night also so could be scared but she dosnt seam bothered , I've got the music on and curtains closed aspen is sat on the sil downstairs watching them with the boys


Keep the lighting low too if you can Hun. xxx


----------



## Elsiebea

Oooh.. Sounds like things really may be starting then!


----------



## belleboris

I great ! People at the back of letting off the loudest rockets ever Kids are scared and aspens just got in her bed


----------



## blade100

Bloody fireworks :Rage:Banghead


----------



## carly87

Often the runs is her having a clear out before kittens come. 12 hours is my guess. If you can't get hold of me tomorrow after 2, it's because I'm on a ferry to Ireland, but that only takes a few hours... She'd better have them before then! Will be up from about 4 tomorrow morning bathing a kitten for show, so if you need to get in touch, at least you won't feel guilty for waking me!


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I great ! People at the back of letting off the loudest rockets ever Kids are scared and aspens just got in her bed


Is Bonnie ok is it spooking her! I think private fireworks should be totally banned!:Rage


----------



## claire8234

Its like a warzone round here too. I have 11 cats who are all stressed out by it


----------



## SusieRainbow

The prostaglandins that cause uterine contractions often cause diarrhoea, I reckon she's on the way !!


----------



## ZoeM

OMG!!!! THE KITTTENSSS ARE COMING!!!!!!!

I texted three of my probably disinterested friends the other night when she had a bit of a leak... and now I will be texting them again! THE KITTENS ARE COMING!!!

Good luck Bonnie!!!


----------



## Elsiebea

Soozi said:


> Is Bonnie ok is it spooking her! I think private fireworks should be totally banned!:Rage


I agree. Organised displays only, not only safer but everyone knows when and where to expect them.
Hope Bonnie is ok


----------



## Matrod

COULD THIS FINALLY BE IT?!!


----------



## Burmesemum

Selfishly, hope they come tonight or tomorrow as I am away at the weekend so won't be able to check!


----------



## Soozi

Elsiebea said:


> I agree. Organised displays only, not only safer but everyone knows when and where to expect them.
> Hope Bonnie is ok


So many people end up in A&E! it's ridiculous that private garden displays are allowed to continue!


----------



## Matrod

Soozi said:


> Is Bonnie ok is it spooking her! I think private fireworks should be totally banned!:Rage


Totally agree. It worries me that anyone can get their hands on a lethal weapon.


----------



## catcoonz

Perfectly normal to have upset tummy just before birth.
next stage is you will see little waves across her tummy, these are the contractions.
she may get confused and keep going in the litter tray, all normal.
when she starts panting, and you will see her clearly pushing, babies are going to arrive very quickly.


----------



## belleboris

I also think that organised displays should be done , no private fireworks they cause so much grief , my twins are scarf to death


----------



## catcoonz

I will be online for a while tonight and you can always get me via mobile anytime through the night, I don't care if it is 2am, if you are worried please phone.


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I also think that organised displays should be done , no private fireworks they cause so much grief , my twins are scarf to death


Awww Hun I'm sorry it's scaring the kids so much too! Especially when you are so preoccupied give them a cuddle. hugs! xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

I'm trying not to get too excited this time til we have further signs of labour but you lot sure don't make it easy...


----------



## GingerNinja

All the best wishes in the world are on their way to you Bonnie and BB xxxx


----------



## idris

I hope it's soon for your sanity and sleep deprived state xxx


----------



## Elsiebea

I've just watched this :Happy


----------



## Lulus mum

This MUST BE the largest group of expectant aunties ever!!
BIG HUGS to you and Bonnie.
Maureen


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Bonfire Night names for the babies! 

Rocket, Comet, Pyro, Diadem, Flash, Sparkler, Banger, Squib, Ember, Marshmallow, Strobe, Whizz, Guy.


----------



## Elsiebea

Love the name Ember


----------



## jltaylor

Ember is a lovely name


----------



## Soozi

Elsiebea said:


> I've just watched this :Happy


Awwww How lovely! Thanks for sharing the vid! XXX


----------



## lazydays

I just cant wait any longer! its toooooooo exciting!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Elsiebea said:


> I've just watched this :Happy


That was quite fascinating, obviously didn't show the whole thing but I understand a bit more what it's like for cats now


----------



## lazydays

I've never seen sphynx newborns before. I'm picturing cute little earth worms


----------



## Soozi

Shall we all play a game while we're waiting! lol!


----------



## Soozi




----------



## Erenya

awww, they must get chilly


----------



## Soozi




----------



## Vienna1

Thought I'd missed it all for a few minutes, the page wouldn't load was sure the server had exploded with the announcement of kittens.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Little naked mole rats!


----------



## Soozi

Shoshannah said:


> Little naked mole rats!


Ooops I hope no one joining the thread thinks these are Bonnie's kittens!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.

If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:

"It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


----------



## JaimeandBree

Soozi said:


> Ooops I hope no one joining the thread thinks these are Bonnie's kittens!


Was just about to say that, you've just given several people including myself a mild heart attack !


----------



## Soozi

JaimeandBree said:


> Was just about to say that, you've just given several people including myself a mild heart attack !


Do you think I should delete them!


----------



## idris

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.
> 
> If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:
> 
> "It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


Hairless ?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

idris said:


> Hairless ?


Nope.


----------



## Soozi

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.
> 
> If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:
> 
> "It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


Smooth? soft?


----------



## claire8234

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.
> 
> If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:
> 
> "It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


Gross? That is the sort of thing my OH would say!


----------



## Soozi

Warm?


----------



## Ali71

My OH just asked what I was smiling at, I told him I was on the kitten watch thread! He thought there was a webcam involved....! I really think I'd be having even less sleep. Bless you Bonnie you have so many people rooting for you xx


----------



## moggie14

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.
> 
> If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:
> 
> "It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


Freaky? Weird? layful


----------



## Tweety1977

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.
> 
> If you can guess the missing word I've left out of his reply, you win a cookie:
> 
> "It wasn't as ..... as I thought it would be."


Slimy ?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

@Tweety1977 I don't know how, but you got it! You two must be on the same wavelength!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Ali71 said:


> My OH just asked what I was smiling at, I told him I was on the kitten watch thread! He thought there was a webcam involved....! I really think I'd be having even less sleep. Bless you Bonnie you have so many people rooting for you xx


There should totally be a webcam involved! Your OH has set a new precedent lol!


----------



## mudgekin

Ohhhhhh, they are on the way.

I'm popping in from my self imposed exile but I really really REALLY had to pop in and see what's what. No doubt I'll be prowling around intermittently through the night so will be nosing around.

Go go Bonnie and mum too of course

Auntie M xxxx


----------



## claire8234

Slimy?? Lol


----------



## Ali71

Shoshannah said:


> There should totally be a webcam involved! Your OH has set a new precedent lol!


Yeah he's full of good ideas lol!


----------



## Tweety1977

Shoshannah said:


> @Tweety1977 I don't know how, but you got it! You two must be on the same wavelength!


Might help to add my message.....(edit!)

It was my husband, I showed him the pictures of the kittens and he said they looked slimy. Maybe its a man thing


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

claire8234 said:


> Slimy?? Lol


I pulled a face and laughed at him when he said it, but then he said it had come out wrong and he didn't mean it like that.


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Excited over here too!


----------



## Tigermoon

Slimy .... LOL :Hilarious


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Oh God, it gets worse. I just asked him to clarify and now he says he expected it to feel more like skin. WTF?! :Hilarious


----------



## claire8234

Do you have slimy skin then shoshannah?!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Shoshannah said:


> Oh God, it gets worse. I just asked him to clarify and now he says he expected it to feel more like skin. WTF?! :Hilarious


Who has slimy skin.... Yuck !:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Erenya

i was gonna go with 'clammy' to be fair...


----------



## Soozi

What's next eye spy anyone?


----------



## moggie14

Oh so disappointed it is bedtime again, wanted to join in the games lol. Best wishes to Bonnie for a good night, see ya tomorrow big hugs xxx


----------



## Cookies mum

I could knit some kitten sized jumpers


----------



## Tigermoon

Shoshannah said:


> Oh God, it gets worse. I just asked him to clarify and now he says he expected it to feel more like skin. WTF?! :Hilarious


Oh dear, oh dear! He's digging a bigger hole for himself LOL


----------



## Jenny1966

Are we nearly there yet?


----------



## QOTN

Shoshannah said:


> Oh God, it gets worse. I just asked him to clarify and now he says he expected it to feel more like skin. WTF?! :Hilarious


Goodness me, even my skin is not as wrinkly as that!


----------



## MollyMilo

:WootPopping in to say I'm excited about these kittens too!


----------



## Soozi

moggie14 said:


> Oh so disappointed it is bedtime again, wanted to join in the games lol. Best wishes to Bonnie for a good night, see ya tomorrow big hugs xxx


I have to be honest I'm ready for my bed! still not got the body clock intune with the hour difference! :Yawnxxx Nite M14


----------



## Soozi

Musical chairs was next! lol!


----------



## MerlinsMum

Shoshannah said:


> We met a Sphynx at the Supreme and it was the first time my OH had ever touched one. Since I'm watching this thread I just asked him casually if he liked the Sphynx cat and whether it felt like he expected it to feel.


I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing


----------



## lymorelynn

MerlinsMum said:


> I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing


 Oooh I say


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

claire8234 said:


> Do you have slimy skin then shoshannah?!


No it's dry, I have to moisturise!


----------



## loroll1991

lymorelynn said:


> Oooh I say


I just laughed out loud at the way I just read that in my head hahaha :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Tigermoon said:


> Oh dear, oh dear! He's digging a bigger hole for himself LOL


He'd never make a novelist. His choice of words leaves much to be desired...


----------



## Cookies mum

can we play pass the parcel next?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

loroll1991 said:


> I just laughed out loud at the way I just read that in my head hahaha :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


'Oooh matron'-style?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

MerlinsMum said:


> I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing


Shine a light.


----------



## vivien

Just looking in to see how Bonnie is doing before going to bed. I hope all is well.

Viv xx


----------



## Tigermoon

MerlinsMum said:


> I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing


I'll never look at a Sphynx in the same way again!!!!! :Jawdrop


----------



## loroll1991

Shoshannah said:


> 'Oooh matron'-style?


Hahahahaha yes!!!! I wasn't the only one then!! :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## sarahecp

Just checking in and out as I'm off to bed now. Keeping everything cross for our Bonnie and her babies xxx


----------



## ZoeM

Dont scan read these posts.. otherwise you get:



MerlinsMum said:


> I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing





Shoshannah said:


> No it's dry, I have to moisturise!


Bear in mind @Shoshannah's pic is a fella.... just no..


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

ZoeM said:


> Dont scan read these posts.. otherwise you get:
> 
> Bear in mind @Shoshannah's pic is a fella.... just no..


Hey, it's your dirty mind love!


----------



## lymorelynn

loroll1991 said:


> Hahahahaha yes!!!! I wasn't the only one then!! :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


It was in my mind as I wrote it


----------



## belleboris

Cookies mum said:


> I could knit some kitten sized jumpers


Yay I wish I could knit

And omg ! I got all at et when a friend described Bonnie as a man piece !


----------



## Soozi

Cookies mum said:


> can we play pass the parcel next?


Great idea go get plenty of paper and make a start then Hun! Lol! xxx


----------



## Tigermoon

Still all quiet @belleboris ?


----------



## mrs phas

MerlinsMum said:


> I used to have hairless rats, and one person said it was like touching a man's ... uhm..... well you know what I mean... :Singing


yep my skinless used to be compared with a gentlemans apendage also

heres hoping all goes well
from one skinless lover to another xx


----------



## Pear

I prefer describing Moth as a fuzzy peach or warm velvet. *snorts with laughter*


----------



## Soozi

You mucky lot! :Facepalm


----------



## Cookies mum

belleboris said:


> Yay I wish I could knit
> 
> And omg ! I got all at et when a friend described Bonnie as a man piece !


http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/cats-love-sweaters


----------



## GingerNinja

I got all excited to see several new pages of posts only to find out you barking mad ladies have descended to gutter talk :Joyful

Spin the bottle next?......


----------



## belleboris

I cannot knit so carnt make them  I can make blankets but that's it Bonnie is fine and happy day on my lap 
And I can her my fuzzy peach


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

GingerNinja said:


> I got all excited to see several new pages of posts only to find out you barking mad ladies have descended to gutter talk :Joyful
> 
> Spin the bottle next?......


Too many girls!


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> And I can her my fuzzy peach


NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well it's bedtime.... Again ....still sending the good vibes for Bonnie and you BB!!! I'll be popping in again in the middle of the night to see if there's any action or if it's all quiet on the western front 

The rest of you ladies (ahem) get your minds out of the gutter, see what happens when we're sat twiddling our thumbs!


----------



## Cookies mum

Good night everyone, come on Bonnie only an hour left of my guess!


----------



## claire8234

I can knit, I would love to make a cat jumper lol


----------



## loroll1991

Nearly bed time for me! OH said I was mad when I told him I bet three bubbies on Friday as he was convinced she'd have them way before then!

As much as I'd love to be right, you keep those buns baking as long as they need before they're fully grown and healthy enough to come meet their crazy PF aunties  but three bubbies between midnight tomorrow and midnight Saturdah will be great !

If it is during the night good luck BB and Beautiful Bonnie, you're both doing absolutely amazingly xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Tigermoon said:


> NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


 You learn something new every day!!!


----------



## GingerNinja

Tigermoon said:


> NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


No don't! I went to bruges a year ago and decided to Google Belgian breakfast, never again :Wtf


----------



## loroll1991

Tigermoon said:


> NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


Hahahahaha OMG!! I most certainly have never heard of this before! Learn something new everyday :Facepalm:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## loroll1991

GingerNinja said:


> No don't! I went to bruges a year ago and decided to Google Belgian breakfast, never again :Wtf


I definitely shouldn't have just googled Belgium breakfast :Arghh


----------



## belleboris

Pear said:


> I prefer describing Moth as a fuzzy peach or warm velvet. *snorts with laughter*





Tigermoon said:


> NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


O my ,wow ! Errrr new name me thinks


----------



## Little P

GingerNinja said:


> No don't! I went to bruges a year ago and decided to Google Belgian breakfast, never again :Wtf





Tigermoon said:


> NO! NO! NO! .... that is the name for something quite rude ... I'll allow you to check the urban dictionary for yourselves :Facepalm


Blimey, don't get talk like that in dog chat!


----------



## claire8234

Little P said:


> Blimey, don't get talk like that in dog chat!


 Welcome to the dark side


----------



## MCWillow

You are all bad _bad_ people (yes I googled!) :Arghh :Wideyed :Jawdrop


----------



## LostSoul

Yes i googled...now those things can never be unlearnt, thank god I didn't google for images 

Come on babies we all want to meet you.


----------



## SusieRainbow

LostSoul said:


> Yes i googled...now those things can never be unlearnt, thank god I didn't google for images
> 
> Come on babies we all want to meet you.


I googled and now feel a ittle nauseous ! This is more fun than Dog Chat, you're a mucky lot !


----------



## belleboris

Awwww I'm a happy cat mum tonight , for the first time from when she's got here over actually seen her play with toys I got a huge lot for her the other day as aspen has her own box and tonight she's had a play and I'm feeling v happy , this is home for her


----------



## chillminx

GingerNinja said:


> No don't! I went to bruges a year ago and decided to Google Belgian breakfast, never again :Wtf


I'm sure half the sexual activities in the Urban Dictionary are just some pervy guy's fantasy!  Some sound too silly for anyone to actually want to do, the so-called "Belgian breakfast" for one! :Woot:Yuck


----------



## huckybuck

Just woke up, checking in on Bonnie....

Right off for breakfast now...ooh and I might just order a Belgian, with a fuzzy peach on the side!!!


----------



## Forester

Just checking in. . . I hope that BB and Bonnie have managed to get more sleep than I did.

I found myself looking up" fuzzy peach" and "Belgian breakfast" in the early hours and thought " Why on earth am I looking at this?" Bonnie, you have a lot to answer for , my girl. 

I hope, with all my heart that everything goes well today . With a bit of luck we will all soon be admiring pics of Bonnie and her beautiful babies.


----------



## sarahecp

Since being a member on PF I have learnt so many new things.... 

And now I know what a Belgium breakfast is  Think I'll be sticking to my cornflakes   


I hope Bonnie is doing well and hoping for some baby news today xx


----------



## Little Zooey

Early morning check in from me. Must. Not. Google.


----------



## idris

Quote from the internet : 
First and foremost, *Belgians* do not eat waffels for *breakfast*. Not ever. *Breakfast*usually consists of bread and cheese, such as sliced Gouda, jam and honey. Children often eat sandwiches with Nutella or the type of cream cheese sold in the USA as "Laughing Cow"
.24 Aug 2010

I see what you mean . Mucky buggers :Wideyed


----------



## vivien

Just checking in to see if there are any babies for us to meet. I hope you both had a restful night. I can't wait to meet these babies 

Viv xx


----------



## Matrod

Just logged on, with all these new pages I was sure something must have happened but all I find is you lot being filthy :Jawdrop:Hilarious:Hilarious. And yes, I did google it :Wideyed:Wideyed:Wideyed


----------



## moggie14

Oh my goodness - you lot are hilarious! I'm glad I was a good girl and went to bed early lol!! :Hilarious
I hope all is well with the beautiful Bonnie today xx


----------



## Tweety1977

:O :O

Why did I google!! How the hell thinks these things up :O


----------



## Tigermoon

I haven't heard that much smut outside of a horsey circle in years 

I apologise for introducing everyone to the urban dictionary, I will hang my head in shame 

Still, it's good to see everyone has an active sense on humour and it certainly brightened the evening 

Now back to the subject in hand ... I hope Bonnie and Belleboris had a restful night.


----------



## ab1g41l

So I saw that there were 100 messages since I checked last night and I honestly thought this was it.  Nope. Hope BB& Bonnie are well rested.

(Cant believe I googled _that_ at this time of the day. :Wtf)


----------



## Burmesemum

Will be checking in regularly today as away this evening for the weekend and won't be back till Sunday.

Hoping BB and Bonnie are doing well.


----------



## Catharinem

You're kidding. Still nothing?


----------



## loroll1991

I bet Friday


----------



## JaimeandBree

I am starting to think Jeano might be right about Sunday at this rate lol!!!


----------



## belleboris

Sorry people she's still holding onto them ! She's having belly rubs atm !


----------



## belleboris




----------



## Jiskefet

Aaawwwwww.....
Bonnie girl, you must be bursting...


----------



## belleboris




----------



## JaimeandBree

Good morning Bonnie sweetie :Kiss:Kiss

She certainly looks quite content at the moment!


----------



## belleboris

I find her fascinating that she has no wiscars , they have grown little stumps from her grim ones but they will fall out again .
I adore aspens wiscars and love how different my girls are


----------



## JTK79

Aww bless her  they really are comfy inside mummy! I know how she feels, 3 out of 4 of my children were very comfy and didn't want to leave!


----------



## Tweety1977

Hello beautiful Bonnie


----------



## Soozi

Morning everyone a bit late this morning! Oh Bonnie you look so relaxed are you going to hang on again today? Kisses and hugs! xxx


----------



## lazydays

hurry on Bonnie girl look what you're doing. You're sending these "ladies" bonkers


----------



## popcornsmum

Awww beautiful Bonnie!! I just love her colouring! She's so beautiful and looks so relaxed.


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Oh bless her, mine doesn't seem to be showing up any time soon either  I'm hoping seeing little babies would give me a kick start


----------



## Carzana

Looks like i missed all the giggles last night, hopes shes ok and bearing up these last few days drag for pregnancy!


----------



## blade100

She looks like a fuzzy felt I just want to kiss that beautiful face of hers.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I'm now totally in love with Bonnie and want a Sphynx cat ! Apparently they're good with dogs and my dogs are fine with my cat .........


----------



## Soozi

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm now totally in love with Bonnie and want a Sphynx cat ! Apparently they're good with dogs and my dogs are fine with my cat .........


You might be able to take one of Bonnie's kittens!xxx


----------



## SusieRainbow

Unfortunatey the zoo is full, 2 dogs, one cat is plenty for us. When we lose one we might rethink.


----------



## MollyMilo

Soozi said:


> You might be able to take one of Bonnie's kittens!xxx


Aaah but remember, they may look and act exactly like Sphynx kittens but as they haven't got papers are considered moggies


----------



## Susan M

MollyMilo said:


> Aaah but remember, they may look and act exactly like Sphynx kittens but as they haven't got papers are considered moggies


 Touché :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## MollyMilo

Susan M said:


> Touché :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


Couldn't resist :Angelic


----------



## belleboris

Could get her papers Maby but not even opening that can of worms with them .

It's totally miserable today full and raining , feel merr


----------



## huckybuck

They might not have any papers at all but I bet they are the most sought after Sphynx kittens ever!!!! Even if they came out with fur


----------



## Soozi

MollyMilo said:


> Aaah but remember, they may look and act exactly like Sphynx kittens but as they haven't got papers are considered moggies


That wouldn't matter to me if I really wanted one Hun!  xxx


----------



## SusieRainbow

nor me.


----------



## QOTN

MollyMilo said:


> Aaah but remember, they may look and act exactly like Sphynx kittens but as they haven't got papers are considered moggies


I would have thought that sphynx cat 'lookalikes' are probably one of the few breeds unlikely to be produced in the moggie population!


----------



## Paddypaws

QOTN said:


> I would have thought that sphynx cat 'lookalikes' are probably one of the few breeds unlikely to be produced in the moggie population!


Nah i have just seen a 'Very Rare long haired Sphynx' on Bumtree for only £300

I guess if it had no tail it would be a Spanx cat.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well it's the weekend! You'd best have those kittens before I go back to work on Monday Bonnie!:Hilarious


----------



## Susan M

I think you all missed @MollyMilo said it in jest....  After all it is what's always said on here!


----------



## Soozi

@belleboris anything happening? Is Bonnie still relaxing making us wait! Lol xxx


----------



## QOTN

Susan M said:


> I think you all missed @MollyMilo said it in jest....  *After all it is what's always said on here*!


Yes, and the sphynx is an extreme example which highlights the difference between breed and registered pedigree.


----------



## Soozi

JaimeandBree said:


> Well it's the weekend! You'd best have those kittens before I go back to work on Monday Bonnie!:Hilarious


It's been quiet this afternoon!


----------



## belleboris

Nothing yet more runny poop  nice smelling bedroom , the radiators make it 10x worse ewwwwww
But she's happy if anything a tad more needy if that was possible


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> Nothing yet more runny poop  nice smelling bedroom , the radiators make it 10x worse ewwwwww
> But she's happy if anything a tad more needy if that was possible


Not liking this cos of the runny poop but because she's happy!


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Nothing yet more runny poop  nice smelling bedroom , the radiators make it 10x worse ewwwwww
> But she's happy if anything a tad more needy if that was possible


Are the babies still moving?


----------



## moggie14

I think that Bonnie has very kindly waited until the weekend so that those of us who work in the week won't miss the birth! Much appreciated sweetie - so any time from now would be fab lol :Cat


----------



## Sophiebee

I get really excited every time i check this thread, cant believe how many people are on kitten watch! Bonnie youve done such a fab job keeping those babies safe and warm that they obviously dont want to move!


----------



## Tweety1977

Hopefully not long to go now Bonnie! The milk bar is ready to go so come on little ones


----------



## Shrike

Still no kitts? Just thinking if she holds out 'til Sunday maybe they could have remembrance style names like Poppy, Peace, Hope.


----------



## Blue-BearUK

When I first said Saturday and 3 I did think maybe I had gone too far. But I am now in with a good chance of being right lol.
Good luck Bonnie x


----------



## belleboris

I can feel the babies yes  
And I like the idea if remembecence names I'm looking at collars with poppies on them on Facebook I think both girls need one


----------



## ZoeM

Poor Bonnie, she must be feeling so uncomfortable and having a runny tummy to top it off. Hope for her sake that the kitties come soon, poor baby. (Of course I don't hope for our sakes that they come soon, because I'm not at all impatient or easily excited, unlike some around here..... :Angelic )

How are you doing @belleboris? It has been a crappy day over here in Liverpool too, but we did get a double rainbow earlier which brought about some excitement and brightness to a miserable day!


----------



## belleboris

We are good , and I'm sure she is the vets know how she's is as I've been letting them know .


----------



## Tigermoon

belleboris said:


> Nothing yet more runny poop


Peeuwww!!!

Bonnie is certainly keeping us all on the edge of our seats. I can't believe we've all been on pins for over a week!! Surely it can't be much longer now though


----------



## belleboris

Tigermoon said:


> Peeuwww!!!
> 
> Bonnie is certainly keeping us all on the edge of our seats. I can't believe we've all been on pins for over a week!! Surely it can't be much longer now though


I hope not I want small fuzzes out and mum safe and well .
I do hope she's fully baked them though but sure she has as her milk is now bulging


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I hope not I want small fuzzes out and mum safe and well .
> I do hope she's fully baked them though but sure she has as her milk is now bulging


I don't think it will be long I'd be very surprised if it's not over the weekend! Hugs for you, Bonnie and her babies and to your family! xxx


----------



## Cassyj

belleboris said:


> I hope not I want small fuzzes out and mum safe and well .
> I do hope she's fully baked them though but sure she has as her milk is now bulging


How are her scratches did they heal well


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> We are good , and I'm sure she is the vets know how she's is as I've been letting them know .


Your vets were correct after all when they said she was 5/6 weeks pregnant when she went in to be spayed. We should have believed them!


----------



## belleboris

I know the vet is a good vet and traines other vets . 
Her scratches have healed and are now faint marks , she still has the one on her leg she came with its a tiny pink mark


----------



## catcoonz

Glad you are online.... saves me texting you every 5 minutes asking "Are they here yet".


----------



## Soozi

catcoonz said:


> Glad you are online.... saves me texting you every 5 minutes asking "Are they here yet".


Lol I'm not too bad during the day but I get twitchy when I go to bed not knowing if they will arrive during the night! X


----------



## belleboris

catcoonz said:


> Glad you are online.... saves me texting you every 5 minutes asking "Are they here yet".


I like that I can text you whenever


----------



## loroll1991

I honestly dream about Bonnie and her babies hahaha!! I wake up and my first thought is has Bonnie had her babies yet  and check my phone !!!


----------



## JaimeandBree

loroll1991 said:


> I honestly dream about Bonnie and her babies hahaha!! I wake up and my first thought is has Bonnie had her babies yet  and check my phone !!!


Yep, me too! About 3 times last night!


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I like that I can text you whenever


You won't find anyone better than CC to help you through if you need her! xxx


----------



## Matrod

loroll1991 said:


> I honestly dream about Bonnie and her babies hahaha!! I wake up and my first thought is has Bonnie had her babies yet  and check my phone !!!


Same here :Woot


----------



## Bexx

I know zilch about cats so this will probably sound really dumb but how far along is Bonnie now? How much longer would you have to wait with no arrivals before you had to take her to the vets? 

As I said I know nothing about cats but I can still tell she looks very happy  Been following this thread for a lot of pages now!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Bexx said:


> I know zilch about cats so this will probably sound really dumb but how far along is Bonnie now? How much longer would you have to wait with no arrivals before you had to take her to the vets?
> 
> As I said I know nothing about cats but I can still tell she looks very happy  Been following this thread for a lot of pages now!


Not dumb at all , but the trouble is that we don't know quite how far along she is as the date of conception is unknown due to the circumstances in which BB rehomed Bonnie. I think the vet had initially thought she'd be due around last weekend though (?) so surely not much longer til she pops now, hopefully.

I think BB has been keeping the vets informed so I'm sure if they had any concerns they'd bring her in.


----------



## Bexx

JaimeandBree said:


> Not dumb at all , but the trouble is that we don't know quite how far along she is as the date of conception is unknown due to the circumstances in which BB rehomed Bonnie. I think the vet had initially thought she'd be due around last weekend though (?) so surely not much longer til she pops now, hopefully.
> 
> I think BB has been keeping the vets informed so I'm sure if they had any concerns they'd bring her in.


Ah I see!

So if we had to say Bonnie will definitely have had the babies by X date, what date would that be?  Has the vet maybe said how long they'd let her go on for before they intervene? Or do they not do that and only Bonnie can pop them out?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Bexx said:


> I know zilch about cats so this will probably sound really dumb but how far along is Bonnie now?


Cats are induced ovulators, (like rabbits) so the act of mating triggers the ovulation... unlike dogs, where they ovulate on a certain day. Means there is a bit of hit & miss about it, but probably not as much leeway as dogs, once they have conceived. You at least know they won't have ovulated BEFORE the mating.


----------



## catcoonz

By the signs Bonnie is giving, kittens should be born between now and Monday.
If kittens are not here Monday, I would be checking with the vet just to ensure all is still ok.

If we knew the dates of mating, 70 days is the maximum before you start looking at C-section.
Most kittens are born between 66-68 days.

Bonnies tummy has dropped now, expect 3 days after that happens and you should have kittens.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Bexx said:


> Ah I see!
> 
> So if we had to say Bonnie will definitely have had the babies by X date, what date would that be?  Has the vet maybe said how long they'd let her go on for before they intervene? Or do they not do that and only Bonnie can pop them out?


Not a clue, I've exhausted my knowledge on the subject!


----------



## belleboris

I've got to phone Monday afternoon , so if she's not popes by Tuesday I guess she will go in but I'll try keep her at home as long as possible safe .


----------



## Bexx

Ah she's still got plenty of time then  This is the only thread I check outside of the dog forum, I really hope I don't miss anything!


----------



## catcoonz

Bonnie will have her kittens by then, don't worry.


----------



## JaimeandBree

catcoonz said:


> Bonnie will have her kittens by then, don't worry.


Boy I hope so, or I might have had kittens by then! :Hilarious


----------



## catcoonz

When did the vet say Bonnie was 5/6 weeks pregnant?


----------



## catcoonz

Lol, just worked dates out..... on 15th October if vets said 5 weeks pregnant, that means Bonnie is not due until 15th November.


----------



## QOTN

catcoonz said:


> Lol, just worked dates out..... on 15th October if vets said 5 weeks pregnant, that means Bonnie is not due until 15th November.


The confusion arose because the vet said 5/6 weeks when she was taken in to be spayed but the mobile scan person said she was much further advanced. If Bonnie was 6 weeks on 15th October she should be due from today so looking at tomorrow or Sunday really but probably could go until Wednesday. The difficulty is that the 'gurgling' heard at the scanner's '7weeks' was misleading and was not really kitten movement as such. I am sure she must have been 6 rather than 5 when the vet saw her.


----------



## belleboris

Bonnie is in labour I'm sat comforting her she's puring through them , she has my hand for as long as it takes ❤Come on baby girl


----------



## lorilu

Oh boy.......lots of love to Bonnie at this time!


----------



## silvi

Love and very best wishes to Bonnie xx


----------



## Alisonfoy

Fingers and paws crossed for a smooth, easy birth xx


----------



## elmthesofties

Looks like I'm not sleeping tonight...
Best of luck to you both!!


----------



## Peridot30

I've not posted in this thread yet but keep checking how Bonnie is. Hope you don't have too long a night x


----------



## belleboris

Well we have two live kittens  I'll update again before we all settle down xx


----------



## huckybuck

Oh I'm so relieved for you both! Simply wonderful news xxxx

Just got up to get ready for flight home. Glad it was pretty quick. Hope Mun, babies and you are all doing well. A few tears will be shed this morning xxxx


----------



## elmthesofties

Incredible news! Well done Bonnie. 
There's going to be lots of very happy posts in the morning when people start waking up!


----------



## lorilu

belleboris said:


> Well we have two live kittens  I'll update again before we all settle down xx


Two so far...or just two? Or you don't know yet? So glad they are all doing well!


----------



## belleboris

Now 3 !


----------



## belleboris

Now 3 ! 
And mum is so relaxed puring away In between for a head rub


----------



## lorilu

Sending head rubs to Bonnie.


----------



## silvi

Well done Bonnie!


----------



## cuddlycats

aww good girl bonnie sending head rubs


----------



## huckybuck

Oh a bonus one!!! Thrilled to bits!!


----------



## belleboris

No !!!! A bonus one  now 4 ...


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh fantastic!!!!!!


----------



## JaimeandBree

So pleased for Bonnie and you well done. I wonder if that's it?


----------



## huckybuck

Oh my goodness!! This is amazing! I darent turn off data roaming lol!! In car to airport. All well?


----------



## JaimeandBree

So glad I woke up and checked and have seen some of the action , everyone's going to be so chuffed!


----------



## laiquendai

Congratulations!!! So happy for you all.


----------



## JaimeandBree

I have two very confused cats here, mum why you up in the middle of the night????


----------



## Forester

Wow, I was cursing Dylan for waking me up, now I'm so glad that he did. Well done Bonnie, and Belleboris.    ( I was tempted to put lots more smiley's than that .)

This really goes to show the power of love and attention - just thinking of the circumstances which caused her to come to you BB.


----------



## ZoeM

Awww I woke up having horrendous nightmares, and this has shaken off some of the fear!

Go Bonnie!!! Kittens are here!!     

So happy for you @belleboris and so happy that all is well!

Congratulatons Mum and the 100 Aunties of PF!


----------



## JaimeandBree

ZoeM said:


> Awww I woke up having horrendous nightmares, and this has shaken off some of the fear!
> 
> Go Bonnie!!! Kittens are here!!
> 
> So happy for you @belleboris and so happy that all is well!
> 
> Congratulatons Mum and the 100 Aunties of PF!


I now have Go, Bonnie, Go Go in my head to the tune of "Johnny B Goode" lol!!! I'm so thrilled


----------



## huckybuck

At airport, just checking in to see how they are.


----------



## Forester

Perhaps its as well for the forum that this has happened in the early hours. Just imagine how it would have coped with all of Bonnie's fans online, trying to post and clicking " like" at the same time. :Hilarious


----------



## huckybuck

At airport, just checking in to see how they are.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Forester said:


> Perhaps its as well for the forum that this has happened in the early hours. Just imagine how it would have coped with all of Bonnie's fans online, trying to post and clicking " like" at the same time. :Hilarious


As it is I suspect the forum may go into meltdown around dawn when people start waking up and checking for news! 

The like button will fall off that's for sure...I wonder what the record amount of likes for a post is....wouldn't be surprised if the first pic of Bonnie and the kittens breaks it!!!


----------



## huckybuck

I wonder if we'll get a pic before I have to get on the plane. I've 1 1/2 to go....


----------



## Forester

JaimeandBree said:


> As it is I suspect the forum may go into meltdown around dawn when people start waking up and checking for news!
> 
> The like button will fall off that's for sure...I wonder what the record amount of likes for a post is....wouldn't be surprised if the first pic of Bonnie and the kittens breaks it!!!


I couldn't agree more. In my time on PF I've never seen another thread which seems to have gained such a following, and from all corners of the forum. I've smiled to see so many unfamiliar names appear in the " likes" box.

Bonnie has become a celebrity.


----------



## JaimeandBree

huckybuck said:


> I wonder if we'll get a pic before I have to get on the plane. I've 1 1/2 to go....


Well that's almost an hour since kitten no 4, if no more have put in an appearance then maybe they're getting all cleaned up and settled now


----------



## idris

4 I hope all is well. I'm very very happy she has done a wonderful job . Your both wonderful xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Forester said:


> I couldn't agree more. In my time on PF I've never seen another thread which seems to have gained such a following, and from all corners of the forum. I've smiled to see so many unfamiliar names appear in the " likes" box.
> 
> Bonnie has become a celebrity.


Me too, wonderful to see how this has brought people from all over the forum together!

Bonnie you are our little star! :Kiss


----------



## JaimeandBree

I wonder what sex they are?


----------



## belleboris

Sorry for the pants pic , I've just changed the bed so all are dry and cozy and put the fluffy vet bed down for them.
Mum is doing an amazing job and is super caring , the babies are walming up as I've turned the heating on noce and snug so starting to call and clamber on mum for some milk , there just getting there bearings as before were trying to suck of mums toes


----------



## huckybuck

Awwww thank you for the pic! Just wept buckets!!!


----------



## belleboris

JaimeandBree said:


> I wonder what sex they are?


I have no clue at all I didn't think we would get to this , live kittens , I'll google when I hopefully get a little sleep , I didn't factor in the noise from them in my bedroom


----------



## belleboris

huckybuck said:


> Awwww thank you for the pic! Just wept buckets!!!


Just for you hb for the flight , I'll get cute pics in the morning they are strange looking , naked with funky wiscars


----------



## JaimeandBree

Ooh I am in tears at that pic!!! So thrilled, just knew Bonnie would be a brill mum as well!!!

So the final count is 4 little wrigglers???

Congratulations Bonnie and BB and all the PFers who have been eagerly following kitten watch!!!


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> I have no clue at all I didn't think we would get to this , live kittens , I'll google when I hopefully get a little sleep , I didn't factor in the noise from them in my bedroom


The sex doesn't matter a jot I just wondered, might be hard for you to tell anyway as even the breeders get it wrong sometimes 

Happy and healthy that's the main thing


----------



## ZoeM

Awww.. fantastic!!! Well done Bonnie and @belleboris ! Hope this is it now and you can all get some sleep!


----------



## idris

Sigh !







I was wondering where the fourth one was then I realised that dark smudge at the top was one . Fabulous times x







four lovely babies . And a very lovely mum . Xxx well done @belleboris x


----------



## KCTT

Well done Bonnie and well done @belleboris so happy that we have healthy kittens looking forward to many more photos xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

@belleboris now they're all settled make yourself a cuppa and go for a well earned snooze Hun  xxx


----------



## huckybuck

belleboris said:


> Just for you hb for the flight , I'll get cute pics in the morning they are strange looking , naked with funky wiscars


Thank you so much, just about to get on plane with a big smile on my face. Have a well deserved rest xxxx


----------



## MissPink

Congratulations Bonnie and Belleboris xx


----------



## Ali71

Oh that is fantastic news, so happy for you, well done Bonnie and @belleboris you have done amazingly. I have got leaky eyes now, really emotional!


----------



## sarahecp

Huge congratulations Bonnie and BB   

I'm crying here  and seeing that photo made me cry more, silky moo I am 

I'm soooo pleased all well well for Bonnie and her babies. 

Well done Bonnie and well done BB   you can now have your chocolate cake and a big bottle of pop to celebrate  

xxx


----------



## Siskin

Wow, and thank goodness all has gone well. Congratulations to you and Bonnie.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Well J&B have had a slightly early brekkie (they didn't mind ) so that I can go back to bed now 

So glad I woke up for it, looking forward to more updates and pics when everyone's rested and refreshed, well done again Bonnie and BB xxx


----------



## ameliajane

Well done both of you!!


----------



## BritishBilbo

Congratulations 

I haven't posted yet but have been watching this thread like a hawk! :Shy


----------



## cats galore

Congratulations both of you - I'm like so many others, haven't posted much (simply too busy with the rescue) but have been watching closely. So pleased that all has turned out well


----------



## Matrod

What fantastic news to wake up to







I should have checked my phone in the night! Massive congratulations to you & Bonnie, it sounds like she coped with it admirably with you by her side, I'll have a proper read through everything once I've fed the mogs, looking forward to more pictures xxx


----------



## Charity

Hooray! What a wonderful start to the day. Congratulations Bonnie and BB, lovely photo, can't wait for more.


----------



## Erenya

Oh my gosh! Awesome news. Well done to the both of you. You must be so relieved and happy     

I was right on the number, just missed the day. 

I'm so happy for you and Bonnie, I'm sure that the only reason she's had a successful litter is due to the love, care and security that you've provided :-D


----------



## Dobby65

All the very best to you and the new little family!


----------



## Little P

Congratulations @belleboris and Bonnie! I guess I can toddle back off to dog chat now....

....

....

But then I'd miss the however many weeks of photos where they turn from squiggly little worms to actual kittens!


----------



## ab1g41l

Wahoooooo!! Congrats @belleboris and mummy Bonnie. :Kiss:Kiss
Actually can't believe they're really here x


----------



## Sophiebee

congratulations bonnie and @belleboris


----------



## Blue-BearUK

Congratulations Bonnie!
I'm so happy for you both.
4 kittens! Fantastic


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Absolutely wonderful news. I am thrilled to bits for bonnie and for you @belleboris it is testament to your love and care that bonnie has produced 4 healthy babies. The next few months are going to be full of fun. :Happy:Happy:Happy:Happy:Happy


----------



## blade100

Oh my goodness me, I've just logged to this fantastic news.
I'm so happy for you both, I'm glad mum and babies are doing well.
Looks like there's a black one amongst the pink? Is he/she furrie?

Go get the chocolates and fizzy pop, who cares if it's 7.40am xxx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Yaaaaay! Brilliant news! :Joyful:Joyful:Joyful

Well done Bonnie and @belleboris, hope all is well. Congratulations!


----------



## Cookies mum

Congrats Bonnie on 4 little bundles of fun


----------



## Jellypi3

Congrats! Well done you and bonnie  hope you both get some well deserved rest!


----------



## Pear

I am so incredible happy for you both.
They look like little jelly beans!!!

I am insanely jealous about the adoreable Sphynx kittens your going to have running around your home at Christmas.

I seriously can not wait for the photographs!!!!


----------



## Jellypi3

Congrats! Well done you and bonnie  hope you both get some well deserved rest!


----------



## oliviarussian

I'm absolutely thrilled to bits for you, Huge congratulations xxx


----------



## MiloandTazzy

Congratulations! Well done Bonnie


----------



## Elsiebea

Wonderful news! So pleased :Happy:Happy:Happy Huge congratulations xxx


----------



## ALR

I'm so happy all went well and Bonnie had her kitties. 

BB you've done an absolutely great job looking after your girl. Congrats on the grandchildren


----------



## Little Zooey

Congratulations to you all. I can tell you a little story now. Exactly 15 years ago we had two kitties in fairly similar circumstances. People I knew said there was a young cat needing a home. Their neighbour had committed suicide and her husband and kids didn't want the cat. She had already lost one litter (due to not being fed properly I suspect). I arranged with the local CP to take her and my job was to collect her after work and drop her off. Hubby was working late, so I didn't make that final leg of the journey. By the next morning it was decided she would stay with us and we called her Cinders. She is our diabetic cat - diagnosed ten years ago and at 16, she is still doing well. We also took her in to be spayed, but the vet said she was pregnant (and I thought it was just all that good food). Two kittens were born on 7th November and we called them Nutmeg and Parsley. Sadly we lost our little boy a couple of years ago, but Nutmeg is still with us and it's her 15th birthday today


----------



## Catharinem

Congratulations! So glad she's taken motherhood, looking forward to more photos.


----------



## Dumpling

What wonderful news to wake up to, congratulations Bonnie and very well done to you both!! 
They are such adorable little babies :Cat:Cat


----------



## catcoonz

Congratulations BB & Bonnie. xxx


----------



## Azriel391

Hurrah  wonderful news to hear, so thrilled for you @belleboris , Bonnie has done a brilliant job , her 4 babies are beautiful and she looks so contentxxxx


----------



## Susan M

Amazing! Well done to you and Bonnie! 
What an absolute credit to you they are, amazing what a safe loving home can achieve. 
They look big!


----------



## Jannor

Congrats - 4 babies! Fantastic news


----------



## moggie14

Wow what fantastic news to wake up to! I'm so delighted for you @belleboris - your love and dedication has got Bonnie through her pregnancy safely and to produce 4 healthy kittens is just amazing after all she has been through before.
Congratulations - I hope you can now relax a little and enjoy your new little family. You are going to have such a fun Christmas with those little sweeties! :Happy:Happy


----------



## loroll1991

Oh my goodness, congratulations beautiful Bonnie you darling girl and your amazing mum @belleboris !!

This is just the best news to wake up to!! This is the first night I didn't wake up about three times and check and I am so pleased that Bonnie and her 4!!!! Beautiful babies are OK!

Cannot wait to see more photos and well done BB, you are the reason Bonnie got through all of this the way she did!

Hehe yaaaaay we're all Aunties!! xx


----------



## Bexx

Congratulations to you both, you've done so well!


----------



## Vienna1

Congratulations Bonnie & @belleboris i am so pleased for you both. I've just had tears running down my face reading last nights posts and seeing her with her babies.

Can't believe i missed all the action because of no broadband connection and a dead phone!


----------



## belleboris

Morning all ! Thank you all for so many kind words and all your support you have given over this last few weeks  I so couldn't have done this on my own .


----------



## belleboris

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## moggie14

Oh what a gorgeous photo! Bonnie looks such a good new Mummy! And that little black tail.... :Joyful


----------



## Vienna1

That picture is beautiful Bonnie looks so contented with her babies finally here. Well done to both of you.


----------



## loroll1991

What gorgeous photos BB! I bet you're so proud!!  

She's such a gorgeous girl and clearly a wonderful mummy. She looks so happy and content! Xx


----------



## Tweety1977

I'm late to the party!!!

Congratulations BB and Bonnie. I shed a little tear when I read there were four healthy babies.


----------



## Citruspips

Congratulations !!!! 

You've done so well and looks like you've been rewarded with all sorts of colours. 

It's going to be fun watching them grow.

Xx


----------



## Cookies mum

That 'like' button is just not good enough...I want a 'love' button!


----------



## Jenny1966

Congratulations! Well done Bonnie, gorgeous photo of a happy mum and her gorgeous bundle of joys xx

And a big well done to you BB, you must be so proud


----------



## idris

Aww curley whiskers . They look puurrfect . X


----------



## GingerNinja

Congratulations! The only night I did not wake up to check 

Well done bonnie and BB, you are both very special to all of us :Happy I bet I'm not the only one who she'd a tear of joy and relief! Xxx


----------



## lazydays

finally! Exhale everyone lol. So pleased they made it out safely and without intervention. Congratulations on the new arrivals so excited to see them grow! Bonnie looks like a natural, I'm sure she will be a brilliant mummy. Welcome to the world little earthworms xxxx


----------



## KCTT

They are all so cute  Bonnie was right to make us wait to make so they all came out perfect. She looks so content and happy being a mum xx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Awwwww more pictures 

Bonnie looks so content bless her how wonderful that after all this not only are the kittens here safely but that she has taken to motherhood like a duck to water, because I know not all do!

Just love the little dark one.

So......now the fun begins, 4 little kittens are gonna be running riot around your house before too long!


----------



## moggie14

Do I see a ginger tabby kitten?! EEEK!


----------



## Jiskefet

AAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


----------



## Jiskefet

Well done Bonnie!!!!
They are beautiful.


----------



## Bluefluffybirmans

Pink (and black) little sausages! Happy looking mummy too! :Happy Congratulations!


----------



## Zephodi

Gorgeous


----------



## Soozi

In tears and overjoyed how wonderful you and Bonnie are! You have both done so well! It goes to show if mum is happy and content she can have healthy beautiful babies! Having a little cry! So happy for you all! Bless you! xxx :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss:Kiss xxx they are the most gorgeous little kittens!


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## belleboris

There is one that's nude two with a ginger tinge and the black or mega dark tabby , I have no idea on colours as there is no fluff lol ,when I give them a good look over and it's daylight I'll get good pics .
They do look odd with no fluff and Curley wiscars


----------



## redroses2106

awhh congratulations on the safe arrival of 4 little kittens, well done to both Bonnie and you - that has to of been the most watched thread in pf history surely lol - have you got names for them all yet?


----------



## JaimeandBree

Ooooh yes names!!!


----------



## belleboris

My daughter wants Luna , I want orian or merlin , and two don't have names . 
I need to be able to tag all the kittens what's the best way ? I can do it by weight today and the little black one I can leave but the other 3 help


----------



## belleboris

I also need to see if anyone got it correct on the other post


----------



## SusieRainbow

Fantstic news to get up to, love and congratulations to Bonnie and BB, Catwife ! xxxx


----------



## Cookies mum

Off to Manchester fro the day....will I be able to resist looking in as I shop?


----------



## JaimeandBree

belleboris said:


> My daughter wants Luna , I want orian or merlin , and two don't have names .
> I need to be able to tag all the kittens what's the best way ? I can do it by weight today and the little black one I can leave but the other 3 help


@lymorelynn has little fleecy scarves on hers I think in different colours.

I like Luna, as a Harry Potter fan


----------



## Shrike

Congratulations to Bonnie, excellent work BelleBoris and welcome to the fab four kitties! Looking forward to their progress over the next few months


----------



## colliemerles

_congratulations, so glad all went well for Bonnie and the kittens, look forward to updates and lots of pictures._


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## Alisonfoy

Oh my word. FOUR. LIVE. KITTENS !!!

Well done Bonnie, and well done you. This is simply wonderful news.

xxx


----------



## Soozi

I'm just amazed by it all! This is a very Happy day for us all on PF! Yay! The main focus has been in Bonnie but BB.you are an awesome lady! Huge hugs we know it's not been easy but just look at the end result! You must be so proud! Just brilliant! xxx


----------



## vivien

Many congratulations. What a beautiful little family. I am so glad mum and kittens are well and bonding. 

Viv xx


----------



## popcornsmum

Hooray! four beautiful little kittens and a wonderful mum! Congratulations!! How cute are those kittens?!!! Well done for all your dedication and love for Bonnie!


----------



## Cazzer

Congratulations Bonnie and BB. Wonderful news to start the weekend with!


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> My daughter wants Luna , I want orian or merlin , and two don't have names .
> I need to be able to tag all the kittens what's the best way ? I can do it by weight today and the little black one I can leave but the other 3 help


I am so pleased Bonne has come through this first stage so well. I admit now that I have been worrying about her. The babies look so fascinating. If you can recognise the black tabby (from the pics so far it looks like a classic) I don't think you will need to tag them. The big red boy with the spots must be fairly easy to distinguish. Is the smaller one a girl? If so I assume she is a tortie. If you weigh them now and there is quite a range you should be able to tell them apart.


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## sarahecp

Thanks for sharing photos BB 

Babies are just beautiful just like their mum 

I adore their curly whiskers :Joyful:Joyful


----------



## Carzana

huckybuck said:


> Awwww thank you for the pic! Just wept buckets!!!


Me too  I have onlyy been on here about a week lol!! I think its reading about her history


----------



## buffie

The first time in ages I'm late on to PF and I miss all the excitement.Well done Bonnie and BB 4 beautiful babies safely born 


​


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> My daughter wants Luna , I want orian or merlin , and two don't have names .
> I need to be able to tag all the kittens what's the best way ? I can do it by weight today and the little black one I can leave but the other 3 help


You don't need to tag the black one or any other distinctive kittens, and if you look carefully you might find you can tell them all apart.


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## chillminx

@belleboris - wow, what wonderful news!!  Heaps of congratulations to Bonnie and you on the safe arrival of the kittens! 

What a relief eh?!


----------



## blade100

The question is @belleboris which one do you keep or are you keeping them all  :Happy :Kiss :Joyful


----------



## cuddlycats

oh when I was up in the night there was only 3 when I wake up now there are 4 well done bonnie they look adorable clever girl


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## RubyFelicity

Congratulations on the arrival of 4 kittens they are beautiful


----------



## Soozi

blade100 said:


> The question is @belleboris which one do you keep or are you keeping them all  :Happy :Kiss :Joyful


I bet the breeder would be pig sick if she saw the babies and what a lovely mum Bonnie is!  xxx


----------



## moggie14

Soozi said:


> I bet the breeder would be pig sick if she saw the babies and what a lovely mum Bonnie is!  xxx


Ha! I was quietly thinking the same!


----------



## Soozi

Really so happy with the outcome!


----------



## MoggyBaby

Wonderful wonderful news!!! Moggy Towers sends massive congratulations to you all. Absolutely delighted that it all went smoothly in the end and that all of the babies are well. You have done such a wonderful job here BB and Bonnie will love you all the more for being there with her all through this very unexpected event. xxx


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## Bexx

You can get those teeny tiny coloured collars can't you, to tell them apart?

Should we change the smiley in the thread title to a happy one?


----------



## Tigermoon

OMG!!! I can't believe I missed all the action! 

Many congratulations on your new arrivals belleboris and Bonnie!


----------



## MCWillow

Wooohoooo!!

Fantastic news! Many congrats to you both, you've done brilliantly    xxx


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## lorilu

They are all precious but I especially ove the little dark one.


----------



## belleboris

I think the un smiley face is a good indicator of how I felt at the beginning of all this .
It was the worst news when the vets told me she was having kittens .
I didn't hold any hope at all after what had gone on that day and her past .
Today she's proved love is important I'm breeding , we have done all we can and now it's up to me to keep mum walm and well fed so she can pass that to the babies .
I've now got to think of the future for these small beings
One will stay forever , and they will all have a home here if they ever need it . But hopefully they will be very much loved pets .

On another note how do people know the sex of them ?? Am I missing something ? 
Mum is tortie and dad is solid black


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## SusieRainbow

Found this for you BB. It's hard to see a difference in newborns but at least you haven't got bum-fluff to impair your view !

http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/sexing-kittens.html


----------



## Citruspips

belleboris said:


> I think the un smiley face is a good indicator of how I felt at the beginning of all this .
> It was the worst news when the vets told me she was having kittens .
> I didn't hold any hope at all after what had gone on that day and her past .
> Today she's proved love is important I'm breeding , we have done all we can and now it's up to me to keep mum walm and well fed so she can pass that to the babies .
> I've now got to think of the future for these small beings
> One will stay forever , and they will all have a home here if they ever need it . But hopefully they will be very much loved pets .
> 
> On another note how do people know the sex of them ?? Am I missing something ?
> Mum is tortie and dad is solid black


Torties are always girls (I think?)


----------



## Erenya

99.9% of torties are female, but there is the odd boy thrown in who has the cat equivalent of Klinefelter Syndrome (2 X cromasomes and 1 Y)


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I think the un smiley face is a good indicator of how I felt at the beginning of all this .
> It was the worst news when the vets told me she was having kittens .
> I didn't hold any hope at all after what had gone on that day and her past .
> Today she's proved love is important I'm breeding , we have done all we can and now it's up to me to keep mum walm and well fed so she can pass that to the babies .
> I've now got to think of the future for these small beings
> One will stay forever , and they will all have a home here if they ever need it . But hopefully they will be very much loved pets .
> 
> On another note how do people know the sex of them ?? Am I missing something ?
> Mum is tortie and dad is solid black


I think you should start a new thread for Bonnie's Babies!

The red one with spots must be a boy because dad is black so you don't have to peer at his rear end. However knowing he is a boy may help you distinguish the others. As I said before one looks as though it could be tortie therefore female but we* really* need more pics, preferably of each individual separately, both front (to admire) and rear (to decide sex.) In general there is a bigger gap below the anus in boys. It can be hard to see exactly because girls sometimes have fluffy bits when they are young and that can be misleading. (Not sure if yours have fluffy bits at all so if not it may be easier.)


----------



## kiara

Congratulations. They are absolutely gorgeous.

I can see 2 red tabbies and a black tortoiseshell. Not sure on the other one. They are soooooooooo cute. x


----------



## QOTN

I have had another look at the pics and the black is not a tabby. It could not be since you said dad was black and Bonnie is not tabby. As Kiara says I suspect it is tortie unless it just has a dirty face!


----------



## JaimeandBree

I'm quite excited to find out the sex! I guess 2 boys and 2 girls 

Still can't quite believe they're here after all the waiting!


----------



## lymorelynn

Late to this party  but massive congratulations @belleboris and the wonderful Bonnie - a beautiful little family and it sounds as if everything went smoothly :Cat:Cat


----------



## sarahecp

Can't wait to find out the sex  I'd say you have 3 boys and one girl  

So looking forward to watching them grow and hearing all about their antics. I think Christmas is going to be havoc in the BB house


----------



## Lulus mum

Am SO SO thrilled with your news and so glad that everything went well for the birth.
Bonnie looks as if she has taken everything in her stride,God love her and she is enjoying being a mum.
YOU should be very proud of yourself for what you have done.Bonnie is safe,warm and LOVED. and a celebrity 
What the outcome COULD have been without you ,I cant bear to think about.
We are all proud to be "aunties" (I have never been an auntie before cos me and O H have no siblings ,so am especially thrilled.
Sending big hugs to you Bonnie and the babies.
Love
Maureen

(I wonder if they realize how many people havent slept for weeks awaiting their safe arrival??)


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> Morning all ! Thank you all for so many kind words and all your support you have given over this last few weeks  I so couldn't have done this on my own .
> View attachment 250828


Lovely babies! She still looks very fat, are you sure there aren't more in there?


----------



## Catharinem

OrientalSlave said:


> You don't need to tag the black one or any other distinctive kittens, and if you look carefully you might find you can tell them all apart.


If not, I use nail varnish on the claws of different feet, front left, back right etc.


----------



## belleboris

It's squidgy and soft I cannot feel any more In there , I knew after she had the two there was at least one more as I could easy feel it for some reason and then after 3 came I could feel the last .


----------



## belleboris

Catharinem said:


> If not, I use nail varnish on the claws of different feet, front left, back right etc.


I'll give that a go ! I'm so sleepy I don't want mix ups , I'll get pics at the same time


----------



## Soozi

Catharinem said:


> Lovely babies! She still looks very fat, are you sure there aren't more in there?


I thought Bonnie still looked big but she's probably bloated out with milk!


----------



## huckybuck

Back home safely and raced to have a look at the pics!! 

How lovely that you have some different colours and patterns there. It's so exciting!! Have you had a chance to weigh them yet although they all do look a good size!! Mum looks like she's a natural too!!


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I'll give that a go ! I'm so sleepy I don't want mix ups , I'll get pics at the same time


Surely the only confusion could be with the two red boys but they look different sizes and in the pics at least the smaller one looks as though he has less definite spots.


----------



## belleboris

The best I'm going to get at the min, mum gets up and takes baby back if they cry .

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## belleboris

There just to cute

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## belleboris

And weights are 
1. 3.1/8
2. 3.5/8
3. 2.3/8
4. 2.5/8


----------



## BFGThatsme

So sweet! Huge congrats on the healthy jelly beabs (jelly baby x bean). Looking forward to seeing pics as they grow!


----------



## sarahecp

They look so tiny and precious   and just adorable :Kiss:Kiss


----------



## Soozi

Awww they are just too gorgeous! They all look really healthy are they all feeding well! Well done Bonnie! You have made a lot of people so happy! xxx


----------



## NaomiM

Congratulations! (I've been another one lurking on this thread but not posting!) You and Bonnie both did a fantastic job


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> And weights are
> 1. 3.1/8
> 2. 3.5/8
> 3. 2.3/8
> 4. 2.5/8


I thought you would be able to tell them apart by their weights.

The one that is not red looks as though there is white down its side. Have you looked under its tail to see if it is a girl?


----------



## JaimeandBree

Awwwww look how teeny they are! So sweet


----------



## Hanlou

Woohoo!!  xxxx

I saw the news this morning but didn't have time to post (work!). Am absolutely over the moon for you @belleboris and for Bonnie xxxx :Cat xxxx

They are lovely, of course! So pleased all has gone smoothly. Massive Congratulations all round!


----------



## popcornsmum

Awwwwww they are so adorable!!!!!


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> And weights are
> 1. 3.1/8
> 2. 3.5/8
> 3. 2.3/8
> 4. 2.5/8


If at all possible weigh in grams not ounces, as a gain most days of about 10g is far easier to work with than .35 of an ounce which is just over 1/3 ounce. I use kitchen scales which weigh to 1g.

Fair weights though, 88g, 103g, 67g and 74g.


----------



## Lilylass

oh my .... I don't think I've ever seen a Sphynx baby and ..... *swoon* they are just too cute for words! 

Congratulations & delighted everything went well 

Well done Bonnie


----------



## belleboris

OrientalSlave said:


> If at all possible weigh in grams not ounces, as a gain most days of about 10g is far easier to work with than .35 of an ounce which is just over 1/3 ounce. I use kitchen scales which weigh to 1g.
> 
> Fair weights though, 88g, 103g, 67g and 74g.


I think there is only one setting on the scales


----------



## MoggyBaby

belleboris said:


> I think there is only one setting on the scales


Are they digital scales?


----------



## Tweety1977

belleboris said:


> I think there is only one setting on the scales


Sometimes there us a little switch on the base to switch the measurement. Unless the scales are very old I would expect there to be a gram setting x


----------



## Kitty Kats

Wow congratulations!!!! I have just read the whole thread how amazing!!! You and Bonnie must be exhausted!


----------



## mudgekin

Awwwww, I'm a latecomer to the party but I've just got online. What a totally amazing job Bonnie and you have done. I'm blubbing like a baby lol. They really are too precious for words, I've never really liked Sphinx cats before but I'm now in love. 

What's the betting crochet hooks and knitting needles are clicking as we speak.

I'm so chuffed for you both. You are the heros of PF ❤❤❤❤


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> I think there is only one setting on the scales


I think this is the least of your worries. I always weighed in ounces without any problems. You are actually hoping for half an ounce gain per day, a quarter will be alright on some days. If you have eighth of an ounce divisions that is fine. You will know they are gaining something even if it is only a little. I hope you are managing to keep them warm enough.


----------



## Labrador Laura

Well I've just read all 72 pages !! Was watching a film and missed it all 

Congratulations to Bonnie and to you , bless her she looks so sweet in all her pictures and lovely to see a happy ending and 4 healthy kittens.
I don't know how I ended up on this thread as i'm always on dog chat as I don't have cats but have to watch them grow up now


----------



## cava14 una

Haven't been on line since last night so missed it all. So glad Mum and babies are well. Love the wonky whiskers:Cat


----------



## Soozi

Labrador Laura said:


> Well I've just read all 72 pages !! Was watching a film and missed it all
> 
> Congratulations to Bonnie and to you , bless her she looks so sweet in all her pictures and lovely to see a happy ending and 4 healthy kittens.
> I don't know how I ended up on this thread as i'm always on dog chat as I don't have cats but have to watch them grow up now


You are a true animal lover thank you so much for your lovely post! xxx


----------



## catcoonz

Does anybody know what temperature to keep newborn Sphynx kittens at please?


----------



## JaimeandBree

Labrador Laura said:


> I don't know how I ended up on this thread as i'm always on dog chat as I don't have cats but have to watch them grow up now


Don't worry I think most of PF has made its way here by now, it has been lovely to see so many new faces in Cat Chat cheering Bonnie and BB on !


----------



## Soozi

catcoonz said:


> Does anybody know what temperature to keep newborn Sphynx kittens at please?


Is everything ok Hun? xxx


----------



## catcoonz

I just like to extend my knowledge hun xx


----------



## Labrador Laura

Soozi said:


> You are a true animal lover thank you so much for your lovely post! xxx


I must be to read the whole thread , I just got drawn into it !! I'm a huge dog lover but do have a soft spot for cats. Sadly my Labrador isn't cat friendly so we can't have one but we have a very friendly cat who lives next door so I get to say hello to him.



JaimeandBree said:


> Don't worry I think most of PF has made its way here by now, it has been lovely to see so many new faces in Cat Chat cheering Bonnie and BB on !


It's this new similar threads part at the bottom on the pages, but glad I've found the thread as I keep checking back now.
Just happy that it was a nice ending !


----------



## QOTN

I always found it best to keep my kittens very warm. My kitten box was wooden, open front with a curtain over it and a heated pad underneath. They had vetbed over flannelette sheet on the base and some rolled up round the perimeter as a bumper. Kittens that are too warm spread out in the box when they sleep. Kittens that are a bit chilly huddle together. I expect it is even more important to keep them enclosed when they are naked babies.


----------



## mrs phas

Cant believe how happy i am for you
have been in the inner city of London since 6 am, and only just got home, didnt have time to check before leaving but this is where i came first as soon as i switched on
A very tiring day finsihed by whoop whopps of joy 
well done bonnie and well done @belleboris , now time for you both to catch some well earned rest


----------



## mrs phas

ps @belleboris , I have the perfect names for them,
mine, mine, mine, oh, and, mine


----------



## JaimeandBree

catcoonz said:


> Does anybody know what temperature to keep newborn Sphynx kittens at please?


Just in case it helps a quick Google suggests hand feeding can help if you are struggling to keep them warm, can't see anything about an ideal temperature though.

I know Google is not always to be relied upon but just thought I'd mention it


----------



## JaimeandBree

Also found this again in case it helps

http://www.hairlesspeterbaldsphynx.com/careofyourkitty.htm


----------



## catcoonz

Sorry, my post wasn't intending to sound like anything was wrong with the babies.
I just asked the question near the beginning of the thread, but in all the excitement obviously I didn't get an answer, so now babies are born, just thought I would learn more about another breed and ask.

Bonnie and babies are fine. xx


----------



## Soozi

catcoonz said:


> I just like to extend my knowledge hun xx


I would think keep as warm as possible. xxx a blanket loosely covering the nest should keep the heat in. xxx


----------



## loroll1991

mrs phas said:


> ps @belleboris , I have the perfect names for them,
> mine, mine, mine, oh, and, mine


I second that hehehehe


----------



## claire8234

Belated congratulations, so happy for you all xx


----------



## Catharinem

JaimeandBree said:


> Just in case it helps a quick Google suggests hand feeding can help if you are struggling to keep them warm, can't see anything about an ideal temperature though.
> 
> I know Google is not always to be relied upon but just thought I'd mention it


Hand feeding kittens, especially newborns can be very difficult for inexperienced. Having their mum's milk is better than formula, and if they are suckling and mum has enough milk I wouldn't intervene. If they're not over hungry they will struggle add it's not their real mum, and milk could go down the wrong way. Not to mention keeping the feeding equipment sterile. Would leave their mum to do all the feeding, only top up or take over if one won't suck or she hasn't enough milk. At the moment it sounds like everything's fine.


----------



## silvi

Wow! I logged off yesterday and there were three kittens....and now four, and all so beautiful too!
Well done Bonnie and well done you too @belleboris 
Fantastic news!


----------



## ZoeM

Feels so strange waking in the night and thinking I'll go see if the kitties are born, and then remembering they are!

Bit at a loss now with the insomnia.

Hope the cuties are all doing well - and everyone has had a good sleep!


----------



## OrientalSlave

JaimeandBree said:


> Just in case it helps a quick Google suggests hand feeding can help if you are struggling to keep them warm, can't see anything about an ideal temperature though.
> 
> I know Google is not always to be relied upon but just thought I'd mention it


Kittens must NOT be fed if they are cool as their digestion slows right down.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Catharinem said:


> Hand feeding kittens, especially newborns can be very difficult for inexperienced. Having their mum's milk is better than formula, and if they are suckling and mum has enough milk I wouldn't intervene. If they're not over hungry they will struggle add it's not their real mum, and milk could go down the wrong way. Not to mention keeping the feeding equipment sterile. Would leave their mum to do all the feeding, only top up or take over if one won't suck or she hasn't enough milk. At the moment it sounds like everything's fine.





OrientalSlave said:


> Kittens must NOT be fed if they are cool as their digestion slows right down.


Fair enough, I did say I didn't know if it was right, was just trying to find some info as the question had been asked.


----------



## huckybuck

Up early this morning and wondering how they are all doing. Hoping all is well and they are starting to gain a little though reassuring that OS said they are fair weights and CC mentions all is well).

Gorgeous photos too - oh and their little ears and their curly whiskers!!! They are like miniature ETs xx


----------



## blade100

huckybuck said:


> Up early this morning and wondering how they are all doing. Hoping all is well and they are starting to gain a little though reassuring that OS said they are fair weights and CC mentions all is well).
> 
> Gorgeous photos too - oh and their little ears and their curly whiskers!!! They are like miniature ETs xx


Yes they are gorgoues aren't they! I showed hubby yesterday and all he said was they look like my **** 
How rude!!


----------



## OrientalSlave

huckybuck said:


> Up early this morning and wondering how they are all doing. Hoping all is well and they are starting to gain a little though reassuring that *OS said they are fair weights* and CC mentions all is well).
> 
> Gorgeous photos too - oh and their little ears and their curly whiskers!!! They are like miniature ETs xx


I should be clearer, I would be happy with those weights for Oriental / Siamese kittens, I don't know if Sphynx usually have larger kittens. However so long as they are feeding & growing I wouldn't be worrying.


----------



## Catharinem

JaimeandBree said:


> Fair enough, I did say I didn't know if it was right, was just trying to find some info as the question had been asked.


Absolutely right to ask, the info you found can be Googled, and by raising that enquiry here it gave me and Oriental Slave the nudge to rely to it. 
I'm loving reading about these kittens, and I don't ( didn't!) even like Sphynx.


----------



## OrientalSlave

Agree absolutely that hand-feeding is a last resort.

This is the best article I know of on the Internet about it, although it's aimed at newborn kittens without a mother:

http://icatcare.org/advice/hand-rearing-kittens


----------



## OrientalSlave

OrientalSlave said:


> Agree absolutely that hand-feeding is a last resort.
> 
> This is the best article I know of on the Internet about it, although it's aimed at newborn kittens without a mother:
> 
> http://icatcare.org/advice/hand-rearing-kittens


Oops and the other one!

http://messybeast.com/handrear.htm

This one specifically mentions body temperature a little way down.


----------



## Firedog

Congratulations.


----------



## catcoonz

I find the sponge method of hand rearing so much easier.
I guess these must be the first Sphynx kittens born on here, which I find fascinating and from what I have found via google the adults run warmer than the average cat.

Hugs to Bonnie & Babies today. xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

OrientalSlave said:


> I should be clearer, I would be happy with those weights for Oriental / Siamese kittens, I don't know if Sphynx usually have larger kittens. However so long as they are feeding & growing I wouldn't be worrying.


Average weight of Sphynx kittens is 95g, and the average litter size is 4.


----------



## loroll1991

Hope all is OK with Bonnie and her kittens this morning @belleboris ?  xxx


----------



## Soozi

Eagerly waiting an update!  xxx


----------



## moggie14

Me too! I expect they are all having a nice lazy Sunday morning - at least I hope xx


----------



## belleboris

Hi all , sorry for the lack of updates I've been silly buisy with the house , kids and watching the kittens like a hawk .

Sadley two of the kittens haven't been feeding .
There walm , mum has milk , no clef pallet , I'm not sure what's wrong , I sat for most of the night last night seeing if I'm missing them feeding but I'm not , they have the opportunity to latch on and arnt , been giving them nettex but if I leave it any longer they will safely not make it so going to intervene , I've hand fed 8 puppies before from one week so I know what I'm in for , but they will die if I don't step in . Just hope I've not left it to long .

On a brighter note kitten 1.2 are doing amazing , gaining weight and have the most cute fat little bellys .

Wish me luck people , takes a deep breath


----------



## lorilu

All paws crossed for the little ones


----------



## Citruspips

Oh good luck. Maybe if they get hand fed for a bit they get their strength and will latch back on to mum. 

Don't know,but maybe time for a Bonnies Kittens thread? X


----------



## JaimeandBree

Thank you for the update BB, I'm sorry two of the kittens aren't doing so well, I have everything crossed and know you will do everything you can for them. Glad to hear the others are doing well xxx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Hi all , sorry for the lack of updates I've been silly buisy with the house , kids and watching the kittens like a hawk .
> 
> Sadley two of the kittens haven't been feeding .
> There walm , mum has milk , no clef pallet , I'm not sure what's wrong , I sat for most of the night last night seeing if I'm missing them feeding but I'm not , they have the opportunity to latch on and arnt , been giving them nettex but if I leave it any longer they will safely not make it so going to intervene , I've hand fed 8 puppies before from one week so I know what I'm in for , but they will die if I don't step in . Just hope I've not left it to long .
> 
> On a brighter note kitten 1.2 are doing amazing , gaining weight and have the most cute fat little bellys .
> 
> Wish me luck people , takes a deep breath


I wish you all the luck Hun! It can't be easy and you can only do your best! I'm sure you are getting good advice from CC too! Keeping everything crossed the two little ones will latch on soon. Is Bonnie staying calm? Hope for good news later. Sending hugs and good luck vibes! xxx


----------



## idris

Good luck sweetie I know you will try your best xxx


----------



## oliviarussian

Everything crossed for you, I know you will try everything possible xx


----------



## Carzana

Citruspips said:


> Oh good luck. Maybe if they get hand fed for a bit they get their strength and will latch back on to mum.
> 
> Don't know,but maybe time for a Bonnies Kittens thread? X


 This, I would try to get them back to mum as much as possible, I have NO experience hand feeding kittens but i did have horrible trouble feeding my daughters, I hope it all works out ok for them x


----------



## OrientalSlave

"nettex" Curious about what that is.

"Sadley two of the kittens haven't been feeding ."

So they are not gaining weight?


----------



## Tweety1977

OrientalSlave said:


> "nettex" Curious about what that
> 
> "Sadley two of the kittens haven't been feeding ."
> 
> So they are not gaining weight?


Nettex is kitten colostrum I believe.


----------



## Soozi

Is Nettex the same as Nutri-drops?


----------



## Tweety1977




----------



## Soozi

Tweety1977 said:


> View attachment 250904


Thanks Tweety! I thought it was that! Hopefully it will help to encourage them to suckle. xxx
Just looked it up!
* First Life Kitten Colostrum *

100% colostrum derived supplement for orphan kittens
Formulated to match the queens colostrum
Use as a routine first feed for kittens for the first 36 hours of life
First life will keep in liquid for up to 72 hours


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Hi all , sorry for the lack of updates I've been silly buisy with the house , kids and watching the kittens like a hawk .
> 
> Sadley two of the kittens haven't been feeding .
> There walm , mum has milk , no clef pallet , I'm not sure what's wrong , I sat for most of the night last night seeing if I'm missing them feeding but I'm not , they have the opportunity to latch on and arnt , been giving them nettex but if I leave it any longer they will safely not make it so going to intervene , I've hand fed 8 puppies before from one week so I know what I'm in for , but they will die if I don't step in . Just hope I've not left it to long .
> 
> On a brighter note kitten 1.2 are doing amazing , gaining weight and have the most cute fat little bellys .
> 
> Wish me luck people , takes a deep breath


This is so distressing for you but these things can happen I am afraid. You say you have checked for cleft palate. Have you also checked they are not under or over shot. I have known of kittens unable to feed because their jaw was too overshot to grasp the teat successfully. In that case they did have to be hand reared. Is their breathing good? If they have fluid in their lungs from the birth they won't be able to suckle. You can usually hear if something is wrong or else you can watch to see if their belly moves when they are breathing.


----------



## lorilu

Citruspips said:


> Oh good luck. Maybe if they get hand fed for a bit they get their strength and will latch back on to mum.
> 
> Don't know,but maybe time for a Bonnies Kittens thread? X


I second that.


----------



## catcoonz

Nettex is the Nutri-drops.

In the past it has saved afew of my own kittens from birth.
Anything is worth a go at this stage.
Remember sponge method, it is the safest way, otherwise 1ml syringe but one drop at a time and from the side of the mouth.

Hoping they just need a kick start then back on Bonnie.

Always reach me via mobile hun.


----------



## sarahecp

I'm sorry to hear about these 2 little ones. Keeping everything crossed that's possible to cross that they'll be ok. You will do your best for these little ones xx


----------



## Tweety1977

Will be keeping everything crossed these little ones get stronger and mum can take over. Sounds like they are in the best of hands as you've done wonderfully with everything so far BB and there isn't anyone on here that doubts you will do anything you have to to give them a real fighting chance.


----------



## lymorelynn

Good luck with the two that aren't feeding - good that you have had experience in hand feeding puppies. I found a dropper easier to use with tiny kittens


----------



## ZoeM

Aww.. poor sweeties.. 

Hope hope hope you manage to get them feeding a little today.. bless ya!

Z


----------



## Dobby65

BB, if love and good wishes can help, these little babies will soon be as fat as their siblings. You have got the whole of PF rooting for you!!


----------



## huckybuck

Thinking of you, Bonnie and the babies. We know you will do your best for them and that's all we can wish for. 

Sending loads of positive suckling thoughts your way and praying for a little miracle xx


----------



## OrientalSlave

Surely this is Nutridrops, unless the term is being used rather loosely? I reckon a touch of honey or syrup will be pretty much as good as these.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-suppleme...ts-c-5_1102/veterinary-nutri-drops-30ml-p-715

Ingredients: Propylene Glyco, Cane Molasses, Beet Molasses, Choline Chloride, Methionine, Lysine, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Di-alpha-tocopherol Acetate, Thiamine, Ammonium Polyphosphate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, Iron Sulphate, Copper Sulphate and Cobalt Sulphate.


----------



## buffie

So sorry to read about 2 kittens not doing so well,paws crossed they pick up and start suckling soon,this is not what you needed on top of all the worry you have had these past weeks.
I'm sure you will do everything possible to turn this around,but sadly as QOTN has said sometimes these things happen xx


----------



## belleboris

These are what I have , one of them has taken some milk from a sponge I've just found a tiny 1m dropper so sterilising that to try at 5


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> These are what I have , one of them has taken some milk from a sponge I've just found a tiny 1m dropper so sterilising that to try at 5


That's good that one is at least trying! Are you wrapping them up while you feed a soft flannel or small towel might do the job. Keeping everything crossed Hun. Is Bonnie staying calm we don't want her to panic or stress. xxx


----------



## OrientalSlave

OK, those are Nutridrops, and not colostrum!


----------



## Burmesemum

Been away for weekend and first thing I did was check this post. Congratulations to BB and Bonnie. Fingers crossed for the two little ones that aren't feeding.


----------



## Tweety1977

OrientalSlave said:


> OK, those are Nutridrops, and not colostrum!


That's my fault having recently seen Nettex as colostrum substitute at our local rescue. I know very little about kittens and kitten rearing. I guess Nettex is a brand name and they probably make lots of products!

Apologies if I cause confusion, I shall keep quiet in future - I just thought on this occasion I could answer the question as had seen it on a shelf very recently. Ooops.


----------



## Matrod

I'm sorry to hear that 2 of the kittens aren't doing as well, I'm sure you'll do everything you can for them BB xx


----------



## moggie14

Fingers crossed the little ones just need a bit of help to get them started. I'm sure you will be up for the challenge @belleboris xxx


----------



## Soozi

Tweety1977 said:


> That's my fault having recently seen Nettex as colostrum substitute at our local rescue. I know very little about kittens and kitten rearing. I guess Nettex is a brand name and they probably make lots of products!
> 
> Apologies if I cause confusion, I shall keep quiet in future - I just thought on this occasion I could answer the question as had seen it on a shelf very recently. Ooops.


I thought the same as you Hun!


----------



## OrientalSlave

I found their website, they do three products for cats, two of which look to be identical - vet drops & breeder drops. They also do colostrum.


----------



## belleboris

Well we just got 1.6ml down one and 1.8ml down the other  no fuss and mum was happy for me to do it .
I know it's not enough but we will keep going .

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## belleboris

Also my heads not working the suns out if I only want to make a small amount of milk say 10-20ml how many scoops do I use


----------



## huckybuck

I'm not great with sums but trying to work out. It looks like 1 and a bit scoops in 10-20 ml water.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Anything is better than nothing Hun keep at it we're all behind you xxx


----------



## LizzieandLoca

My maths is also somewhat rusty but if it's 1g to 3.5ml then I think it works out as 2 scoops (2.5g x 2 = 5g) to 17.5ml (5 x 3.5). 

And now my head hurts a little bit. 

Not posted on this thread before but following from afar! Good luck with the little ones xx


----------



## OrientalSlave

You have to be accurate, sorry 10-20ml water is nothing like accurate enough.

The instructions say to mix 12 scoops with 105ml, so divide both sides by 5 gives you 2.4 scoops with 21ml water.

It's better to weigh it though - 1 scoop is approx. 2.5g, so 2.4 scoops = 6g, and 1ml of water weights 1g.

They say to feed a kitten that weighs 100g 50ml in a day, so divide the kittens weight by 2 and that gives you how much to feed in a day - 40ml for an 8g kitten. Since you are feeding 2 kittens I'd make up 105ml and keep it in the fridge. It's also easier to make up larger quantities accurately.

Draw up a feed into the syringe, stand that in a small glass of water and give it 10 seconds in the microwave to take the chill off. A set of scales that weigh in grams is invaluable for this as well as weighing kittens!

If the Kitty Milk has a white top you can write on, put on how many grams with how many mls water.


----------



## belleboris

Worked it out as 1 scoop is 8.75ml of water , so I'll keep making that , shall I go every 2hr or 3 ?


----------



## colliemerles

_got everything crossed for the two that are not feeding properly, xxx_


----------



## belleboris

OrientalSlave said:


> You have to be accurate, sorry 10-20ml water is nothing like accurate enough.
> 
> The instructions say to mix 12 scoops with 105ml, so divide both sides by 5 gives you 2.4 scoops with 21ml water.
> 
> It's better to weigh it though - 1 scoop is approx. 2.5g, so 2.4 scoops = 6g, and 1ml of water weights 1g.
> 
> They say to feed a kitten that weighs 100g 50ml in a day, so divide the kittens weight by 2 and that gives you how much to feed in a day - 40ml for an 8g kitten. Since you are feeding 2 kittens I'd make up 105ml and keep it in the fridge. It's also easier to make up larger quantities accurately.
> 
> Draw up a feed into the syringe, stand that in a small glass of water and give it 10 seconds in the microwave to take the chill off. A set of scales that weigh in grams is invaluable for this as well as weighing kittens!
> 
> If the Kitty Milk has a white top you can write on, put on how many grams with how many mls water.


I'll make the 105 mil and store it in the fridge


----------



## Vienna1

Sorry to see you have two struggling. Keep fighting little ones you can do it.


----------



## idris

Your bang on if 30g of powder is made up with 105ml of water 30 divided by 105 gives the amount of powder per 1ml . = 0.28571428571g per ml. 
8.75 x 0.28571428571 = 2.5g = 1 level scoop


----------



## chloe1975

I have had quite a bit of success when handrearing but it is a really tough task. Hopefully you might only need to for a couple of days. Keep encouraging the kittens to try and suckle from mum if you can. 
If the kittens are very weak I would feed hourly initially, but usually 2 hourly for first week to 10 days then 3 hourly. I have never got on with a syringe and always use a bottle but different things work for different people. What milk are you using? I have always used Royal Canin babycat milk which comes with a bottle and teats. 1-2ml to start is fine and they soon build up from there. x


----------



## belleboris

They have just had another 2ml each Nearley and this time made a sucking motion on the seringe .
There no longer dehydrated and there skin settles like the other two .
There also making less noise and there is a bit more fight in them .


----------



## vivien

That good to hear BB. You are doing a fantastic job.

Viv xx


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> I'll make the 105 mil and store it in the fridge


It's much easier! Actually if you stand the milk drawn up into the syringe in a glass of hot water there's no need for the microwave. 2ml every couple of hours should be OK at present. Do remember to toilet them before & after. If their wee is pale their hydration is OK.


----------



## Forester

That sounds promising if they're taking the milk and starting to suck.

Fingers crossed that they will start to suck and take milk from Bonnie as they get a little stronger.


----------



## belleboris

Mum is looking after them and licking them on there bits with the other two , do I still need to do it ?


----------



## OrientalSlave

I would.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Sounds like a step in the right direction if they are suckling the syringe xxxx


----------



## ab1g41l

Glad to hear they are making progress. Let's hope they latch on very soon! You're doing a great job BB xx


----------



## ZoeM

What a great job you're doing!

Mum's such a fighter, and looks like her kitties are too! Well done for giving them the best chance you possibly can x


----------



## catcoonz

See if they will now suckle from Bonnie, but continue to top up if they don't.
Well Done, hard work I know.


----------



## OrientalSlave

The vet nurse uses the green end from the kennel cough nasal vaccines the feed kittens, its worth seeing if they will give you one to try. There also the Miracle Nipple which is hard to get hold of in the UK but good, and I also found that cannulas quite good, but you can't buy a few its a box of 100. I snipped a bit off so they weren't overlong.


----------



## sarahecp

So pleased to hear the little ones are suckling from the syringe. Keeping everything crossed they will start feeding from Bonnie xxx


----------



## GingerNinja

Oh, fingers crossed for the little ones! 

I so hope they pull through but know from previous threads what a difficult task it is. You are doing an amazing job xxx


----------



## belleboris

Thanks @OrientalSlave , just did the toilet bit after another 2ml and we had this ^^
It's only taking about 15 min to feed both and toilet them , until they go to 3ml I'll keep doing it each 90 min


----------



## Hanlou

I really hope these two little ones will be ok xx

Massive well done to you and lots and lots of thriving-kitten-vibes heading your way from Derbyshire xxx


----------



## belleboris

O and I forgot to say
I think they are all girls


----------



## moggie14

Girl power!! I hope they all continue to do well tonight xx


----------



## huckybuck

I have total and utter admiration for everything you're doing. More and more positive suckling thoughts coming your way. Along with wishes for strength for all of you xxxx


----------



## cava14 una

You are doing an amazing job:Cat


----------



## popcornsmum

Aw well done to you! What amazing dedication you have! Bless the little kittens!


----------



## Soozi

So pleased you are managing to get them to take the food! It's a big step forwards! Well done BB and Bonnie! Lots of love being sent xxx


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> O and I forgot to say
> I think they are all girls


I don't think so. Two are red so must be boys with a black sire.


----------



## belleboris

QOTN said:


> I don't think so. Two are red so must be boys with a black sire.


They will all have patches on them you can see close up in the light , 
And they all look the same down below , could they all be boys? I'll get pics for you experts I'm pants


----------



## QOTN

belleboris said:


> They will all have patches on them you can see close up in the light ,
> And they all look the same down below , could they all be boys? I'll get pics for you experts I'm pants


The pics you posted before had definite red spots on two of them. That is why I assumed they were red. Reds show tabby patterns even when they are not tabby but I would love to see some better pics especially if they look different now..


----------



## catcoonz

Reds will be boys, black kitten looks tortie to me, so female, then not sure what colour the other kitten is.


----------



## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> They will all have patches on them you can see close up in the light ,
> And they all look the same down below , could they all be boys? I'll get pics for you experts I'm pants


It can be very hard once mum has started cleaning them as it all gets a bit swollen, which of course goes in time. If you take photos kitten on tum with tail held up works best


----------



## Catharinem

Just catching up the thread, a lot's been happening today hadn't it? Glad they're starting to suck, wee looks OK. Possibly a tiny bit dark, but not much, and looks like plenty of it. Just keep going, unfortunately through the night as well, but with little ones they go downhill quickly, but also rally quickly. With a bit of luck by this time tomorrow they'll be back on mum.


----------



## belleboris

One is starting to sniff for a nipple , not latching but better than laying there motionless like dinner time .
There starting to get some fight in them now and have podgy bellys like the others so I'm hoping mum will be able to take over tomorrow or the day after if not hay ho who needs sleep !
Here are the pics in order smallest to biggest kitten






















__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## catcoonz

photo 3 definitely a girl.
sorry but other photo's are a bit blurry on my laptop but guess boys.
so 3 boys and 1 definite female.

Glad kittens are starting to look for teats, keep plugging them on.


----------



## Catharinem

belleboris said:


> One is starting to sniff for a nipple , not latching but better than laying there motionless like dinner time .
> There starting to get some fight in them now and have podgy bellys like the others so I'm hoping mum will be able to take over tomorrow or the day after if not hay ho who needs sleep !
> Here are the pics in order smallest to biggest kitten
> View attachment 250976
> View attachment 250977
> View attachment 250978
> View attachment 250979


Can't see first on phone properly, can only see one hole! Possibly 2 and 3 girls, 4 definitely a boy. Can you get a bit more in focus


----------



## JaimeandBree

Just about to go to bed, you are doing such a great job BB and you must be exhausted so massive kudos to you, everything crossed that you all have a good night, how is Bonnie doing with it all? Xxx


----------



## belleboris

They are so wiggly lol , I will try again tomorrow when I can get my daughter to hold the kitten .
I keep putting them onto mums belly , they do snuggle up there each kitten has had about 9-10ml from 5 so we are getting some in


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## LostSoul

You're doing a wonderful job belleboris, I look forward to seeing lots more photos of bonnie and her babies.


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## QOTN

Pic 1 still looks red to me so although it's blurred must be a boy. Tortie proves she is a tortie, last one is the big red boy, pic 2 probably boy. So glad the little ones are doing better. Fingers crossed they pull through. Hand reared kittens do not do as well as those who have had mother's milk so it really is important to encourage them to suck from her if at all possible.


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## belleboris

So 3 boys and 1 girl .
The girl
Is named poppy 
The boys have no names yet .
Do I just keep putting the babies on to mums nipples in the hopes they just get it ? 
What would cause a kitten to just not suckle


----------



## catcoonz

Hun, please don't go there with asking questions on why kittens don't suckle.
Just concentrate on the feeding, firstly plugging onto mum to see if you can get them feeding, then topping up. x


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> So 3 boys and 1 girl .
> The girl
> Is named poppy
> The boys have no names yet .
> Do I just keep putting the babies on to mums nipples in the hopes they just get it ?
> What would cause a kitten to just not suckle


I am not sure you definitely have three boys, just probably.
Always best to squeeze some milk out of her nipple and rub round the baby's mouth first to let it get a taste. Then sometimes you have to open the kitten's mouth and latch it on that way (by force really!) Suckling is lots of effort so if they were a bit weak from the birth they might take quite a time to recover sufficiently. One kitten of mine a long time ago just would not wake up enough to feed however hard I tried. In the end I went to bed convinced I would find it dead in the morning. It just needed to recover from the birth and when I woke up I could not tell which it was as it was feeding with the rest of them. Fluid in the lungs makes breathing difficult so suckling becomes almost impossible. If their bite is not correct they cannot suckle however strong they are. This last happened to a friend of mine with two different kittens. They were so noisy because they were starving but however hard they tried they got nowhere but if yours just did not try it suggests one of the first two reasons. As CC says, you will probably not find out so concentrate on dealing with the situation you have.


----------



## lorilu

QOTN said:


> I don't think so. Two are red so must be boys with a black sire.





catcoonz said:


> Reds will be boys, black kitten looks tortie to me, so female, then not sure what colour the other kitten is.


Why do you say "red must be boys" ? Is that a genetic trait in the sphynx breed, red are boys only? I know lots of red girl cats. : )


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## OrientalSlave

Red girls have a red father & red or tortie mother. Got the impression the father of these us black


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## lorilu

Ah, 'k thanks.


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## belleboris

Got one on  only for about 2 min then Bonnie got up as the others were causing a fuss


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## belleboris

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## belleboris

Both have had a drink from mum  off to get a bit of sleep alarm set for 2h


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## ZoeM

Yay! Brilliant news - well done to you and well done kitties xxx


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## sarahecp

This is fantastic news to wake up to   I'm so so pleased  I hope they've continued to feed through the night.

You're doing brilliantly BB, an amazing job  well done you, Bonnie and babies   xxx


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## Erenya

So glad they took a drink from mum. You're doing so well


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## Ali71

Just catching up, I missed all the action last night! Well done @belleboris you are doing such a grand job x


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## moggie14

Yay hopefully they have turned a corner - keep up the good work hun! xx


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## vivien

I am really pleased your babies have latched on to mum.  You are doing a fantastic job with these cute little babies. CC, QOTN, Carly, and other Breeders on here have given you excellent advice too. You have a very beautiful fur / fur less family. Well done.

Viv xx


----------



## catcoonz

Well Done.
Hand rearing is hard work, but when things go the right way, it is very rewarding.

Keep those babies on Bonnie as much as you can, but still be prepared to top up if needed.


----------



## Dumpling

Was out all Saturday afternoon and Sunday so have only just read that two of the little ones were having difficulties feeding from mum.

It sounds like you're doing a great job and I'm so glad they have latched on now


----------



## huckybuck

Oh so relieved to hear that they are trying to suckle. 
You are do a sterling job and I hope managing to get the odd hour sleep here and there too.


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## Elsiebea

Just caught up. What a wonderful job both you and Bonnie are doing x


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## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> So 3 boys and 1 girl .
> The girl
> Is named poppy
> The boys have no names yet .
> Do I just keep putting the babies on to mums nipples in the hopes they just get it ?
> What would cause a kitten to just not suckle


I found I have to hold a kitten to the nipple rather than just put it there - once it's latched on that's fine. Of course if you've just fed them they won't be hungry, so try before feeding them. Keep weighing them so you know how they are doing.


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## Soozi

I
@belleboris The last pic looks like a boy to me but as CC says pics are a tad blurred! I am so happy that there are now signs of progress with suckling. You are doing brilliantly Hun! Are there any signs of claw scratches on Bonnie's tummy or is she ok? xxx


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## claire8234

You are doing such a fantastic job. Good luck with everything xx


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## MoggyBaby

Oh great news that your two little problems appear to have gotten the idea now for suckling. All fingers and toes crossed that they have continued to do so through the night and are now fully into the swing of how Mummys Milk Bar works. If only so you may get a decent nights sleep!!! It's been a while since you have had one of those......

Big hugs to all of you for doing so well and getting this far. xx


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Got one on  only for about 2 min then Bonnie got up as the others were causing a fuss


When I have had a kitten missing out at the milkbar because they are smaller or for some other reason, I have taken the other kittens away while I have held the kitten on mum. If you do this for up to 20 minutes at a time a few times a day, they often decide they will fight harder when they are with their siblings. You could remove the 2 bigger kittens and, sorry to say this, 'persuade' Bonnie she needs to remain still to feed them. (I am assuming she is still happy with the two little ones. She will probably put them out of the box if she thinks there is no hope but I have put them straight back in the past when this happens.)


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## belleboris

They have got quite a bit of fight in them now so make a huge racket and mum gets worried , 
I keep trying and will keep going mums milk is 1000xbetter than my stuff I'm only feeding out of need .

I got a bit of sleep but I am use to having not much as I fed my twins and they have JUST started to sleep through at over 2 years !! 

Going to run out to the vets today see what feeding seringes they have as I would like one a bit softer


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## belleboris

QOTN said:


> When I have had a kitten missing out at the milkbar because they are smaller or for some other reason, I have taken the other kittens away while I have held the kitten on mum. If you do this for up to 20 minutes at a time a few times a day, they often decide they will fight harder when they are with their siblings. You could remove the 2 bigger kittens and, sorry to say this, 'persuade' Bonnie she needs to remain still to feed them. (I am assuming she is still happy with the two little ones. She will probably put them out of the box if she thinks there is no hope but I have put them straight back in the past when this happens.)


The two others are v fat and relaxed so I've been putting them between her neck and front legs as they are happy to stay there .
I'll take Bonnies treats up with me to pursuance her to stay . She just gets upset when they cry loud so stands to see what's going on .
She's more than happy with the babies , I've just changed the bed and she moved them all back herself while I was cleaning up


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## JTK79

Fingers crossed that continue to get stronger and stronger


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## belleboris

Another feed and no latching before or after they just get to wiggly and won't stay , mum did stay put this time for me to try


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## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Another feed and no latching before or after they just get to wiggly and won't stay , mum did stay put this time for me to try


Are you still trying the sponge method? I've heard the most success is achieved this way. Hopefully they will latch on soon. Is one any better than the other? Have you weighed them today? Everything crossed BB XXX


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Another feed and no latching before or after they just get to wiggly and won't stay , mum did stay put this time for me to try


Are their weights improving? If so it is possible they are feeding when you are not watching. (They won't be interested after you have fed them.) It might be a good idea to delay the next feed slightly so they are hungry. Good girl Bonnie for being co-operative..


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## belleboris

Kitten 1 and two have put 20g on each and kitten 3 5g kitten 4 is the same , both kitten 3-4 both lost a lot of weight before I started to feed them .
I've also found the g part of the scales ....... I'm pants


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## belleboris

QOTN said:


> Are their weights improving? If so it is possible they are feeding when you are not watching. (They won't be interested after you have fed them.) It might be a good idea to delay the next feed slightly so they are hungry. Good girl Bonnie for being co-operative..


They are hungry and take the milk quick and with only a small bit of fuss .
I'll try before each feed still .and going to weigh them twice a day from now


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## QOTN

belleboris said:


> Kitten 1 and two have put 20g on each and kitten 3 5g kitten 4 is the same , both kitten 3-4 both lost a lot of weight before I started to feed them .
> I've also found the g part of the scales ....... I'm pants


I would not say pants! More like preoccupied with the current situation. Anyway 5gms would have registered as a quarter ounce. Nothing would still have been nothing I am afraid but it is going to be a slow process. Are you sure they get milk from Bonnie when you latch them on? They sound a bit frustrated to me. Did you check their bites?


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## Paddypaws

I see a couple of people have mentioned the sponge method of feeding so i thought you might find this video helpful.


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## belleboris

QOTN said:


> I would not say pants! More like preoccupied with the current situation. Anyway 5gms would have registered as a quarter ounce. Nothing would still have been nothing I am afraid but it is going to be a slow process. Are you sure they get milk from Bonnie when you latch them on? They sound a bit frustrated to me. Did you check their bites?


They won't stay on long enough now to get any just squirm and cry , 
They did get a good latch last night and were having a good suck but there freeking out if I pick them up and try even if I squeeze. Tiny bit of milk out for them they suck once or twice and stop them start squirming again .


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## catcoonz

When they latch on, if they stop suckling you can gently rub the side of their face, this imitates littermates when they try and steal a teat.
Just keep doing what you are doing hun.


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## Paddypaws

The video ( I watched it again, sigh, so cute) shows the hand rearer stroking the side of the puppy's face to stimulate it to feed.


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## huckybuck

You've kept them going this far which is a little miracle. Just keeping everything crossed that they latch on.


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## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> They are hungry and take the milk quick and with only a small bit of fuss .
> I'll try before each feed still .and going to weigh them twice a day from now


Trying them on mum before you feed them is the right way to go, but please don't weigh them twice a day - that's a quick path to madness. Once a day at about the same time is enough.


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## Soozi

Paddypaws said:


> I see a couple of people have mentioned the sponge method of feeding so i thought you might find this video helpful.


That video looks brilliant what a good idea! xxx


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## chillminx

Excellent video @Paddypaws, thank you for posting. The sponge method looks impressive, and possibly the closest thing to nursing from mum, as the kitty or puppy has control.


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## Soozi

chillminx said:


> Excellent video @Paddypaws, thank you for posting. The sponge method looks impressive, and possibly the closest thing to nursing from mum, as the kitty or puppy has control.


I thought it was brilliant and apparently you can buy those wedge shaped cosmetic sponges easily enough the idea of soaking the sponge with the syringe is also good. Something I will remember for the future if the situation should arise again such a helpful forum this is!


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## carly87

I'm afraid that you do have to force the issue occasionally. I've had to do this with many kittens after C Section as they're really slow to get going. As you're hand feeding, they are going to get used to that very quickly as milk comes easier without as much work. Drip some of the formula onto bonny's nipple, preferably a back one, after removing one of the bigger kittens. It takes work to get the milk going, so let a strong one start it off, then remove it. Plug the little one into this nipple, then hold it there sothat nobody else can jossle it off. If you have to, open its mouth and literally shove Bonny's nipple in. Keep doing this. I normally try for a solid 10 minutes before giving up and hand feeding. And if they're showing signs of sucking as yours are, I delay the feed slightly to make them hungry, then try them on mum before feeding myself. As soon as they start to suck, tickle the side of their mouth. Instinct tells them that this is a littermate trying to steal their food, and it makes them clamp on tight. They're going to wiggle. All kittens, or at least the Persian ones, do this when suckling, and I've literally seen them roll from belly to back with a nipple still in their mouth, and back again. All the tugging and pulling also stimulates mum's milk to flow. However, if you keep a hand under them, you can let them wiggle without letting them do it so vigorously that they come off the nipple. Joggling them a tiny bit on your hand when they get sleepy is also a good way of making them suck again.

Unfortunately, Bonny needs to learn to stay put when they shout. Put a hand across her shoulders when she's laid down, then hold her there when she tries to get up. You can reassure her, but she needs to learn to stay put until the kittens are done. I often move the squealers right next to mum's face each time, so she can see they're just complaining.


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## QOTN

Thank you Carly. I was beginning to think I was strange to suggest holding the kittens on the nipple and opening their mouths to put the teat right in and then restraining Bonnie to give them a chance. It is what I always did to give them the idea. The trouble is that weak kittens can just play with the nipple and give the impression they are feeding when in fact they don't have the teat far enough into their mouths. If they are weak they are also less likely to knead the milk down.


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## belleboris

I'll try to get a vid on the next feed and if you guys can suggest anything I can do different that would be great .


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## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I'll try to get a vid on the next feed and if you guys can suggest anything I can do different that would be great .


Hun you have some very knowledgable people on board so the video is a good idea I'm sure you will get the help you need or constructive suggestions xxx


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## Soozi

Carly won't be able to see the vid so try and back it up with a post. xxx


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## Tigermoon

QOTN said:


> The trouble is that weak kittens can just play with the nipple and give the impression they are feeding when in fact they don't have the teat far enough into their mouths. If they are weak they are also less likely to knead the milk down.


I find that if they are truly suckling and getting milk their ears twitch in time with the sucks (the equivalent of lambs shaking their tails while suckling). I found this a very useful and easily noticed guide to tell if they are managing to suck, rather than just mouthing or playing with the nipple as you mention here.


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## JaimeandBree

I'm so glad to hear that the little ones have picked up a bit, you're doing so well BB, I hope you are looking after yourself too! Xx


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## belleboris

Tigermoon said:


> I find that if they are truly suckling and getting milk their ears twitch in time with the sucks (the equivalent of lambs shaking their tails while suckling). I found this a very useful and easily noticed guide to tell if they are managing to suck, rather than just mouthing or playing with the nipple as you mention here.


I've noticed that they do this when I give them a bottle .its very cute 
The two that are doing well have started to open there eyes , I'm totally in love


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## Reets

So glad that so far so good, and BB, you are doing an fantastic job, and wonderful advice here from the breeders. Its just fab.


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## moggie14

I continue to follow this thread and love the picture in my mind of their little ears twitching bless them. Topping up the vibes, hope they continue to improve xx


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## loroll1991

I have been a bit quiet, but wanted you to know I am still following this thread every step of the way! I couldn't really help when it comes to the babies feeding, but wanted you to know I am still here and am so, so proud of you and Bonnie! You're both doing a fantastic job xxx


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## carly87

As mentioned, I won't be able to see the video, so you really need to explain what's going on. however, my advice is what I follow myself, and I've never lost a kitten after a C Section (well, I haven't yet anyway), and they're not easy to keep going.

QOTN, I'm surprised nobody else mentioned it, as I often have to be quite firm with my thickos to get them started. I suspect sometimes that's why there's a high mortality rate in Persians, because not eaveryone knows that they have to be on the kittens like anything for the first few weeks!


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## belleboris

Hello world

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## catcoonz

Hello sweet kittie.

BB, please make sure you have the flash off camera, it can damage kitten eyes hun. xx


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## SusieRainbow

Aw, they look human ! Bless !


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## belleboris

I was holding baby up and It was light but I will turn it off for future use  I take a zillion pics


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## belleboris

The vid I'm sorry it's not v good my daughter was filming


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## catcoonz

Video doesn't work for me.


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## belleboris

Will now  sorry it takes me a bit to open them to public


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## Blue-BearUK

Oh my Gosh!! 
Sorry no advice, but they are the cutest little things I have ever seen! Even Luna came in from the other room after hearing the kittens & was watching the video.


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## belleboris

Aspen was walking round me on the sofa looking for the kittens , bless her she's still upset she carnt come in my room


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## ZoeM

I have so much respect for you... it looks like hard work and the little mites are so wriggly... I think they will do it eventually just may take a little time.. but to be honest, I dont know much about newborns and feeding..

So cute though.. x


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## Catharinem

You can really see the size difference now. Can see what you mean about not wanting to latch on mum, but sucking seems OK on the bottle. Only thing I can think, as Bonnie has milk, and kitten knows how to suck, is that it has learnt the best teats, where you were obviously trying to attach it as most milky, are reserved for the stronger kittens. I've had this in litters before, where weaker kittens get pushed to the top, and even if I remove bigger, more pushy kittens, the weak ones still won't suck as they know they "aren't allowed " and will get pushed away, losing valuable energy. You could try getting them to latch at the top teats whilst the others are feeding lower down. Apart from that, keep topping up, just get milk into them somehow. They seem strong enough and squeaking sounds hungry and protesting rather than hurting or poorly, but you'll have to be on high alert for them going downhill. Just keep feeding, toileting and weighing, I can't think of anything obvious apart from my suggestion of give up on milky lower teats and try less good higher ones they might be "allowed" to have by their siblings. You're doing a grand job.


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## MCWillow

Oh bless them - they have found their voices all right!

You are doing an amazing job - I wish you all the luck in the world for them xxx


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## QOTN

I agree that the big kittens will have laid claim to 'their' teats. All the fighting with newborns is because there are favourite teats they all want but in the end the strongest get those and the others accept it and go elsewhere. Anyway, the lower teats are harder to get the milk from so the top ones will be better for the weaker babies.

Ease your finger into the kitten's mouth. (Shorter nails might be better for that.) Then substitute the teat when you have its mouth open. Then just cup its head so it cannot back away.


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## belleboris

I have give them all a go during the day , there to restless but I will keep trying the top , two of her tears are out of order and flat so there is less to choose from , the larger two make there way round them all so maby that's why they won't latch if they have all been claimed .
I will keep having a go at each feed , what minute sleep I'm getting is disturbed by cute kitten sounds and mum in her tray ! O the joys .... They better all be cute and well behaved after this lol


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## Alisonfoy

Go BB....! You are doing a fantastic, wonderful job - though goodness knows, you must be completely cream-crackered by now.

Love the video of the little kits, though the one you're feeding on it certainly seems keener on the artificial teat than the real thing. At least he's getting something down him however. Fingers crossed for gains all round at tomorrow's weigh in.

Can't offer any technical advice I'm afraid, but just wanted to offer a bit of moral support, cos I think that's important too xx


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## huckybuck

Oh that video was so lovely to see. Your daughter did a super job!!

You can see the difference in size but my goodness both the little ones have big voices!! 
Glad that they are taking the bottle easily now, though sorry this means more work for you.

Isn't Mummy Bonnie simply wonderful. She didn't bat an eyelid when you were holding the kitten and looks super chilled, relaxed and happy with whatever is going on around her.


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## Burmesemum

Lovely video and well done you are doing a fantastic job and Bonnie looks very relaxed.


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## Citruspips

Bonnie is so sweet and trusting. Hopefully things will get easier as the kittens get stronger.


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## Soozi

Awww it looks like you need tons of patience Bonnie looks so laid back just a gorgeous video I will have to watch it properly on the computer as Liddy is ckambering all over the phone trying to find out where the kittens are! lol! I'm sure you will get there as long as the 2 tiny ones are putting on a bit of weight. Well done BB and Bonnie. xxx


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## vivien

Thank you for sharing your video, it's a shame the kittens won't latch on. But you are doing a brilliant job. You must be very tired. It looks like very hard work. 

Viv xx


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## belleboris

Ok so weight update .

Small dark . Yesterday 67g today 79g
Small pink. Yesterday 64g today 74g
Fat pink. Yesterday 113g today 140g (omg)
Poppy yesterday 124g today 139g 

The boys all need names ! I've been to scared to name them so far but think it's time


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## belleboris

And yes I'm sleepy ! Verry sleepy !!!!
Just to let you into a snip it of my day to day .
I wake up with my 4 babies .
Rush breakfast with the twins the two teens do there own , Rush upstairs feed kittens , clean tray out weigh kittens ,
Come down entertain twins while cleaning making dinner etc and this happens till I go to my cleaning job for two hr 5-7 my daughter Feeds the babies while I'm out .
Come home and take over again put the twins to bed and make the milk for the next 24h have some food and try unwind before the nights stars


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## chillminx

@belleboris - thank you so much for sharing the video, (which btw was excellently filmed by your daughter, with a very steady hand )

Having watched your vid I am even *more *in admiration of you (if that were possible!) and what you are achieving with these little babies!  You are so calm and patient, and sound so relaxed, in spite of your lack of sleep. Feeding these babies must be taking up most of your time at present, and I am surprised you are getting anything else done at all?!

I am no expert on kitten feeding, but I liked the suggestion made by one of the breeders on this thread, to moisten Bonnie's teats with some of the milk formula before plugging the kittens on each time. They may be more inclined to latch on and suck, if they can smell milk.

Sending you, Bonnie and the kits heaps of warm wishes. Keep doing what you are doing hun, you are doing brilliantly!


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## OrientalSlave

belleboris said:


> Ok so weight update .
> 
> Small dark . Yesterday 67g today 79g
> Small pink. Yesterday 64g today 74g
> Fat pink. Yesterday 113g today 140g (omg)
> Poppy yesterday 124g today 139g
> 
> The boys all need names ! I've been to scared to name them so far but think it's time


Looks like what you are doing is working as they have all gained well. Personally I'd be concentrating on the feeding for now!


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## huckybuck

They're all gaining - simply wonderful!!!!

Sending lots of adrenalin and energy vibes your way!!! I hope today is the day they latch on and you can have a bit of a rest xx


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## catcoonz

weights gradually getting there, keep up with the feeding. xx


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## Burmesemum

belleboris said:


> And yes I'm sleepy ! Verry sleepy !!!!
> Just to let you into a snip it of my day to day .
> I wake up with my 4 babies .
> Rush breakfast with the twins the two teens do there own , Rush upstairs feed kittens , clean tray out weigh kittens ,
> Come down entertain twins while cleaning making dinner etc and this happens till I go to my cleaning job for two hr 5-7 my daughter Feeds the babies while I'm out .
> Come home and take over again put the twins to bed and make the milk for the next 24h have some food and try unwind before the nights stars


You need a huge big bar of chocolate waiting for you when you get home from work!


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## Catharinem

Weight gain really good. I'd be pleased with that.


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## ab1g41l

Wow, just watched that video. You are doing a fab job! You have such busy days, I totally admire what you're doing. Hope they decide to latch on to mum soon so you can get yourself some rest x


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## Jeano1471

Love hearing there little squeaks and noises x just watched latest vid an even Lola woke from her 12hour nap to watch xx


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## JaimeandBree

Couldn't watch the whole video as Bree was right up on my knee miaowing her head off looking for the kittens and she got quite agitated, but they are so sweet and you're doing a great job  xx


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## The Wild Bunch

You're doing a cracking job with them. No advice to offer really but they have good strong voices. Ernie was straight up with his nose on my screen then looking at me as if to say "what's wrong with the babies mum?" 
I truly hope that you can get them to latch on to Bonnie then at least you get a little bit of respite


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## ZoeM

I just watched the video again, and my 4/5 year old cat who I adopted as a stray (as well as her 5 kittens) came rushing in, and pushed her nose so far beneath the laptop she upended it. She was almost frantic - I had to turn it off! Seems like she still has a hugely maternal instinct. She's still sat here watching my laptop really carefully, and usually she's very antisocial.


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## belleboris

I needed new bottles from the vets so phones and asked if I could bring in the two kittens that I'm feeding for them to make sure there is no cp or under or over jaws .
Vets were super pleased with them in weight and livleyness.
All 4 are booked in for both injections and all 5 booked in for spay/neuter on the 16th of Feb !!!! 
One of the babies may be going to live with one of the vet nurses She was looking after Bonnie when she was in and totally fell in love with her , she has a Siamese and oriental at home allready .
And another bonus Came home to one of the smalls suckling on mum !!!! Could hear the gluging and see the milk round her mouth so a good day today


----------



## The Wild Bunch

belleboris said:


> I needed new bottles from the vets so phones and asked if I could bring in the two kittens that I'm feeding for them to make sure there is no cp or under or over jaws .
> Vets were super pleased with them in weight and livleyness.
> All 4 are booked in for both injections and all 5 booked in for spay/neuter on the 16th of Feb !!!!
> One of the babies may be going to live with one of the vet nurses She was looking after Bonnie when she was in and totally fell in love with her , she has a Siamese and oriental at home allready .
> And another bonus Came home to one of the smalls suckling on mum !!!! Could hear the gluging and see the milk round her mouth so a good day today


Really positive news. Sounds like things are improving and a possible lovely home for one of them with a veterinary nurse is fab!


----------



## ZoeM

daisysmama said:


> Really positive news. Sounds like things are improving and a possible lovely home for one of them with a veterinary nurse is fab!


What fantastic news!!


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I needed new bottles from the vets so phones and asked if I could bring in the two kittens that I'm feeding for them to make sure there is no cp or under or over jaws .
> Vets were super pleased with them in weight and livleyness.
> All 4 are booked in for both injections and all 5 booked in for spay/neuter on the 16th of Feb !!!!
> One of the babies may be going to live with one of the vet nurses She was looking after Bonnie when she was in and totally fell in love with her , she has a Siamese and oriental at home allready .
> And another bonus Came home to one of the smalls suckling on mum !!!! Could hear the gluging and see the milk round her mouth so a good day today


Awww that's great news! I hope the nurse does have one of the kittens and over the moon to hear one of the tiny ones is now suckling! Well done BB. xxx


----------



## Kitty Kats

Brilliant!!!


----------



## Citruspips

Happy days x


----------



## moggie14

So chuffed to hear the news! You are doing wonderfully well hun. Brilliant!! :Happy


----------



## Dumpling

belleboris said:


> I needed new bottles from the vets so phones and asked if I could bring in the two kittens that I'm feeding for them to make sure there is no cp or under or over jaws .
> Vets were super pleased with them in weight and livleyness.
> All 4 are booked in for both injections and all 5 booked in for spay/neuter on the 16th of Feb !!!!
> One of the babies may be going to live with one of the vet nurses She was looking after Bonnie when she was in and totally fell in love with her , she has a Siamese and oriental at home allready .
> And another bonus Came home to one of the smalls suckling on mum !!!! Could hear the gluging and see the milk round her mouth so a good day today


Fabulous news!!


----------



## Summ3rain

So pleased to hear how well they're all doing. A real testament to your dedication BB x


----------



## popcornsmum

Awww we watched the video and Popcorn woke up, jumped on the sofa and proceeded to bite up OHs arm! She was clearly upset by the mews!!!  They are so cute though! Adorable little kittens!


----------



## cava14 una

They are doing so well and look great. Keep up the good work!!!:Happy


----------



## Alisonfoy

Fabulous news all round BB. Hope you are managing to survive sleep-wise! Can't believe how much noise those little ones make.

In common with other people on here, my mother's cats (she is following the thread closely via me) went absolutely bananas when they heard the kittens mewing for milk on your video. Puss-puss and Summer looked everywhere for them, batting each other out of the way in their search...


----------



## loroll1991

That video absolutely melted my heart, it was so unbelievably cute!! You're seriously doing such a fantastic job BB and I am so pleased to hear that they are all doing so well!! 

Same as everyone else, M&M were fast asleep and went absolutely bonkers when they heard the babies meowing!! They were running around looking for them! xx


----------



## Shikoku

You're doing so well BB! I am so happy for you and Bonnie to read that the kittens are doing well, I've been quietly following the thread :Cat It's so nice how this thread has brought so many members together and the amount of support shown to BB is incredible and it makes me proud to me a part of this wonderful forum with all it's amazing members! 

My three didn't even look when I played the video with sound, our dog showed more interested :Hilarious I look forward to seeing the amazing four progress!


----------



## belleboris

popcornsmum said:


> Awww we watched the video and Popcorn woke up, jumped on the sofa and proceeded to bite up OHs arm! She was clearly upset by the mews!!!  They are so cute though! Adorable little kittens!


I did wonder why aspen ran up to me and kept biting my arm ( not in a draw blood way )


----------



## mrs phas

just sending mega hugs,
as a dog person I have nothing in way of advice to give
but as a mum of twins [now 23] I feel your pain


----------



## NaomiM

Love how much Bonnie obviously trusts you with her family


----------



## belleboris

Pink small just walloped 5ml of milk and is now snug with the others and dark small just had 1ml and then 10 min on mums back boob! Even clinging on while the whopper wanted it and won !  
Found a way to get them on without them wiggling ! Upside down two finger signal they bump there head and it keeps them in place and they scratch the finders struggling for a second not mum  so mums happy kitten finds boob and is happy and I'm scratched but happy .

Now there finding there way a little how often should I feed ? 3hr ? To give them time to get hungry and find mum before I make it easy ?


----------



## belleboris

NaomiM said:


> Love how much Bonnie obviously trusts you with her family


This we are going to have quite a life together ! In total I think it's been 5 weeks from when she first come here  
Aspen has also chosen me as her person so still got to work on and an introduce a kitten two


----------



## mrs phas

belleboris said:


> This we are going to have quite a life together ! In total I think it's been 5 weeks from when she first come here
> Aspen has also chosen me as her person so still got to work on and an introduce a kitten two


what a 5 weeks for all of you!!!


----------



## Alisonfoy

That's the other thing that struck me in your video @belleboris, Bonnie is completely and utterly relaxed around you. Even with tiny crying kitties clambering everywhere, she seems happy for you to handle little ones and fiddle around with her teats. It's truly amazing, and shows how much she must trust you, the bond that's been established and what love, care and a relaxed environment can achieve. I'm hoping there might be more videos at some point, though for now, imagine you've got more than enough on your hands...


----------



## belleboris

There will be a huge amount of bids and pics to come .

And happy 6am people !


----------



## belleboris

I did help one on , now I know they can do I monitor weights and step back ? Or still top up , they were all feeding when I came to get some sleep so waited till they finished and roped up ( less than a mil each was taken ) so set my alarm for each 90 min and made sure they were not fusing or crying and left if needs be .


----------



## OrientalSlave

I would be going on the weights and if they keep gaining without topping up that's ideal. Remember milk supply increases to demand, so the more they suckle the more the milk will come in.


----------



## idris

belleboris said:


> There will be a huge amount of bids and pics to come .
> 
> And happy 6am people !
> View attachment 251184


I had a very happy 6 am viewing that picture x your doing smashing x


----------



## Ali71

Well done my dear, you are doing a fantastic job with Bonnie and her babies. Hats off to you and may they all continue to thrive under your love and dedication x


----------



## blade100

Wow BB your really do deserve a huge pat on the back, well done Hun. The video made Arthur my 9 month kitten run away when he heard the cries. Lol.
It's fantastic ones started to latch on and suckle fingers crossed the other gets the message soon. 
Mummy looks so happy and contented in that pic with her beautiful babies around her. You've got a very special kitty there Hun.


----------



## moggie14

What wonderful news to wake up to! They are smashing! Big hugs xx


----------



## Susan M

So pleased with how well they are doing, you're doing an amazing job @belleboris
Bonnie looks so content, such a natural Mummy :Cat


----------



## MiloandTazzy

You're doing such a fantastic job, Bonnie looks so relaxed and the babies are just lovely


----------



## Bexx

I can't wait to see more pictures of the babies, look at the little fattie ones tummy! Bonnie be like "just chillin with my babies, relaxin' all cool" The 2 slim-jims must be getting stronger thanks to your care! So cute


----------



## Burmesemum

Thanks for the photo. Don't think we can get enough of Bonnie and her babies.


----------



## Erenya

so pleased things are going well


----------



## huckybuck

Just amazing - what a sight - 4 suckling babies and 1 very content Mum..that has absolutely made my day.

Huge credit to you for what you have done and are continuing to do to keep these babies thriving. To think Bonnie had 2 failed litters and now this..you should be immensely proud of yourself!!!


----------



## vivien

You are doing a brilliant job. And the fact that Bonnie trusts you with her babies after such a short time living with you says it all. It also confirms my suspicion that she was stressed at her last home. You are a special lady 

Viv xx


----------



## Soozi

Awww so lovely seeing that photo Bonnie and babies all looking good! So pleased with the progress in feeding! Well done BB and Bonnie! xxx


----------



## belleboris

Weights are good appart from small dark but I'll make sure he gets on a few times today on his own small dark y=79g t=79g
Small pink y=74g t =80g
Fat pink. Y=140g t=154g
Fat dark y-=139g t=149g


----------



## MoggyBaby

Oh BB, you have done SOOOOOO well with your unexpected, and unplanned, little bundles!!! They are adorable and the part you have played in all of this has been immense. You really are an amazingly special person. Bonnie looks really happy in her piccies and her kitlets are too scrummy for words. Well done you a million times over!!!

I played the vid at home last night - Abby & Moo Moo raised their heads wondering what the noise was. Donald, on the other hand, was running around all over the place trying to find where it was coming from. His eyes were wide open, pupils all enlarged, and then he jumped up and got really cuddly & fussy with me. I don't know what those babies were saying in kitten-language, but it really did get him going!!!


----------



## Susan M

Mostly great gains and no losses, you're doing great 

My Belle was born at 59g and needed help feeding as she was barely gaining, she refused to be topped up when she reached just under 2 weeks, she's a tough cookie! By the time they had their second vaccs at 12 weeks she was the biggest of the litter, keep up the good work


----------



## Soozi

Susan M said:


> Mostly great gains and no losses, you're doing great
> 
> My Belle was born at 59g and needed help feeding as she was barely gaining, she refused to be topped up when she reached just under 2 weeks, she's a tough cookie! By the time they had their second vaccs at 12 weeks she was the biggest of the litter, keep up the good work


Very reassuring Hun! XXX


----------



## Azriel391

@belleboris what you are doing is amazing for those tiny precious babies , Bonnie 's trust in you is beautiful to see and shows the love that you have showered on her was what she craved. I have no experience re feeding / newborn care so haven't posted as much but checking in all the time and sending strong suckling vibes to the babies and hugs to you xx


----------



## sarahecp

I'm soooo pleased the little ones are doing well  Well done BB and Bonnie  

Love that photo :Joyful babies have defiantly grown  and Bonnie looks a very proud mum


----------



## Charity

They all look wonderful, what a credit they are to you and you to them.


----------



## popcornsmum

Aw well done! They are soooo cute!!!


----------



## dagny0823

They are gorgeous and I so admire the hard work you've put into this unexpected pregnancy. You're really working miracles with Bonnie and her sweet babies. 

I watched the video this morning over breakfast. Most of my kitties were curious about the noises, but poor Blake got a little freaked out, hissed at nothing, and ran out of the kitchen! He's a delicate little guy. I'm glad the dogs weren't up yet. Ragnar would have tried to find them so he could adopt them. He loves baby anything.


----------



## carly87

Don't feed at all now that you know they can suck. By all means suppor tthem and stop the others from pushing them off, but the more you top up now, the less milk mum will have and the harder it will be for them to gain. Expect 2-3 days of smaller weight gains while the milk comes in enough to feed them all, but as long as they're gaining more than 5G over this period, I don't worry at all. If they gain less, I'd top up no more than 2-3 times a day as they need to be hungry to suck hard.


----------



## belleboris

carly87 said:


> Don't feed at all now that you know they can suck. By all means suppor tthem and stop the others from pushing them off, but the more you top up now, the less milk mum will have and the harder it will be for them to gain. Expect 2-3 days of smaller weight gains while the milk comes in enough to feed them all, but as long as they're gaining more than 5G over this period, I don't worry at all. If they gain less, I'd top up no more than 2-3 times a day as they need to be hungry to suck hard.


Thanks Hun  I'm still on edge thinking the worst as nothing has gone to plan with this at all  
But they are little fighters and I've not given them anything extra today just spent time helping them on but I'm finding small pink is getting the hang of it so only need to help small dark .
Once on they hand on for dear life so although the others are bruisers compared to these two they have got some fight in them .

I'm hoping for some gain tomorrow from small dark .

On another note I'm inundated with people asking about them ! Didn't realise they would be such a popular cat to own as there not the easiest to care for with there lack of fur and skin !


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> Thanks Hun  I'm still on edge thinking the worst as nothing has gone to plan with this at all
> But they are little fighters and I've not given them anything extra today just spent time helping them on but I'm finding small pink is getting the hang of it so only need to help small dark .
> Once on they hand on for dear life so although the others are bruisers compared to these two they have got some fight in them .
> 
> I'm hoping for some gain tomorrow from small dark .
> 
> On another note I'm inundated with people asking about them ! Didn't realise they would be such a popular cat to own as there not the easiest to care for with there lack of fur and skin !


Oh Hun it's hardly surprising you are on edge! it has been a touch and so situation You are doing so well so try not to worry too much I do feel you have turned a corner with little pink and I'm sure little Dark will follow suit. XXX


----------



## belleboris

They need names !


----------



## Little Zooey

Eeny, Meeny, Miny and Mo


----------



## lymorelynn

I wouldn't worry about their names - my lot are 2 weeks old and still haven't got names  They are lovely and you're doing a great job with them. Hope Small Dark soon gets the hang of suckling from Bonnie :Cat


----------



## ZoeM

belleboris said:


> They need names !


I think small dark is quite catchy! 

Hows about....

Daisy (after oopsa daisy finding out she was pregnant)


----------



## carly87

Naming is always dangerous, especially this early on. Do yourself a favour and just don't do it for a while yet! Mine rarely get names on purpose, and I don't even allow accidental naming until about 6 weeks.


----------



## OrientalSlave

I never name mine, not only because like Carly I feel it's dangerous, but also because most of my kittens have to leave home, and it's easier to say goodbye when I've not named them. Of course I have to give them pedigree names so I can register them, but that's not the same.


----------



## belleboris

I've been out 2hr to work I left the kittens on mum , both suckling , 
I've come home to small dark cold and just hanging on to life I've given him some drops and he's walking up on a hot water bottle . He won't take milk but I'm going to try again when her walked up .
What could have gone on ?? He's been doing so well


----------



## Bexx

Oh no! How are the others? Come on small dark, fingers crossed for you little man!


----------



## Charity

Oh dear, I hope he rallies.


----------



## sarahecp

Oh BB, I do hope he's going to be ok, keeping everything crossed that's possible to cross xxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh no... I have absolutely everything crossed that he picks up again Hun, big hugs xxxx


----------



## Forester

Come on Little One. Show us that you're a fighter.


----------



## kiara

I was told on here a cold kitten wont feed. You need to warm the kitten up, it was suggested to me to warm them up with a hair dryer. x


----------



## Soozi

Saying a prayer for the little one keep him as warm as you can. I hope he can will recover. healing vibes! xxx


----------



## kiara

Is the there a heat mat in with mum and babies? x


----------



## kiara

@OrientalSlave @carly87
@lymorelynn @Shoshannah


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Hairdryer or heat pad, rubbing with a flannel perhaps to get him going then nutridrops and the bottle after you've got him responding

Hopefully @QOTN @spotty cats @carly87 @OrientalSlave @lymorelynn will be along soon


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Oh no!  Does he seem to be warming up?

Try not to feed him until he's warm; it can be harmful to feed a cold kitten. I know it's instinctive to try and get food into him, but just concentrate on getting him warm first.


----------



## Lulus mum

Oh so sorry to read your last post
Sending loads of hugs for the poor baby and hope he improves -
they have all come SO FAR due to your hard work .
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Maureen


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

You might need to get some sugar into him though - get some honey or something on those gums and tongue.


----------



## belleboris

He was on a heat pad under there bed with mum , 
I left at 4:30 and he was drinking from mum quite livley .
Came home , he was in the bed not curled up with the others and cold so I've got a hot water bottle wrapped in a tea towel and he's on it wrapped in a microfibres cloth , he's had drops and I've offered him some milk but he's spitting it out and just laying there


----------



## belleboris

And no honey in can I failure some in hot water ?


----------



## Soozi

Shoshannah said:


> You might need to get some sugar into him though - get some honey or something on those gums and tongue.


What could BB use instead of honey?


----------



## Reets

Love and prayers coming your way for this little one. I am so hoping he can hang on in there.

xx


----------



## The Wild Bunch

Sugar in water would work I think


----------



## ZoeM

Can you make very thick sugar mix with warm water - the risk is choking / inhaling the water.. so you need to have it thick to put on his gums xx


----------



## moggie14

I believe a little sugar dissolved in warm water might work instead of honey xx


----------



## moggie14

Oops sorry cross posted x


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Don't warm him too quickly, you want to try and warm him slowly over a couple of hours. Do it too quickly and he could become dehydrated and you'll make his metabolism work too hard.

Nutri Drops have glucose in them, don't they? Sorry, I don't really use them so not au fait with the ingredients.


----------



## Soozi

@catcoonz van you help at all BB. Has a bit of a crisis Hun. xxx


----------



## Soozi

Shoshannah said:


> Don't warm him too quickly, you want to try and warm him slowly over a couple of hours. Do it too quickly and he could become dehydrated and you'll make his metabolism work too hard.
> 
> Nutri Drops have glucose in them, don't they? Sorry, I don't really use them so not au fait with the ingredients.


Just chatting to a friend how about putting him wrapped up and down her top? Just wondering if body heat would be better?


----------



## GingerNinja

Oh poppet. I can't help, but saying a prayer for small dark xx


----------



## chillminx

I think body heat is better as it warms kitty gradually. Someone on here used to put a poorly kitten in her cleavage to warm him.


----------



## Susan M

Come on little one, you can do it, thinking of you xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Soozi said:


> Just chatting to a friend how about putting him wrapped up and down her top? Just wondering if body heat would be better?


It's fine, but need to make sure he doesn't overheat as he obviously won't be able to move himself away from the heat!


----------



## Azriel391

Hang in there little one , all you pf aunties are with you xx


----------



## OrientalSlave

Soozi said:


> Just chatting to a friend how about putting him wrapped up and down her top? Just wondering if body heat would be better?


The best way according to my vet


----------



## catcoonz

Been texting BB for the past 15 minutes, don't worry. x


----------



## Azriel391

Thank you @catcoonz your support , knowledge , calmness and wisdom must be massively reassuring xx


----------



## lymorelynn

Was about to reply but see @catcoonz has been in touch - hope things are improving now and Small Dark is taking some nourishment.


----------



## Soozi

catcoonz said:


> Been texting BB for the past 15 minutes, don't worry. x


I had a feeling you might have already been in touch! Phew Thanks CC! XXX


----------



## catcoonz

Others can still reply, I don't know everything xx

BB, keep kitten warm, as suggested down your top, keep doing nutri-drops every 10 minutes and update me in 20 minutes hun.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FEED MILK..... kitten is too cold and will die, feeding comes later once warm. xx


----------



## ZoeM

Come on small dark!!! You can do it!!


----------



## JaimeandBree

Everyone is rooting for you wee man, come on now xxx


----------



## catcoonz

Kitten slowly warming up and moving a bit more.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Great news, fingers crossed he pulls through!


----------



## lorilu

Praying for the dear precious baby


----------



## sarahecp

That's great  keeping everything crossed and sending lots and lots of positive vibes xxx


----------



## MoggyBaby

Holding breath here at Moggy Towers.... Hoping Small Dark comes through...... xxx


----------



## dagny0823

Oh dear--I picked a bad time to check in on Bonnie's babies. 

I know nothing, but I do remember reading on here some people have put babies inside their shirt/bra to warm them next to skin. Dont' know if that's helpful, but if it is, great!


----------



## Azriel391

Well done Small Dark, keep fighting xx


----------



## catcoonz

Kitten still slowly warming up and has had a shout now, that's a good sign he has the energy to shout, more than what BB had 30 minutes ago.
Keep going BB, I know you can save him xx


----------



## belleboris

I've been in contact with cc  
Little dark dosnt look to well I'll try my best tonight with him , I'm wondering if he's been getting any milk while suckling of mum .
He's moving a little but is a tad cold still my heating is on full ( it's near un bearable for me ) and I've got him on a water bottle ,
Just to add insult to it all my kettle has just broke


----------



## Soozi

Everything crossed! XXX


----------



## Azriel391

Sending positive vibes and strength @belleboris to you and Small Dark xxx


----------



## loroll1991

Have everything crossed! Come on you little fighter, you can do it!! xx


----------



## catcoonz

Hairdryer then hun, you have to get this kitten warm.
cold kittens organs fail very quickly.


----------



## QOTN

Kittens don't move away from their siblings and allow themselves to get so cold they are close to death without a reason. I hope he is warmer now but you really need to find out why this happened. Is his breathing normal? If he has just been taking in air when he is suckling, that is bad news. I have brought a newborn kitten back to life, after I had swung it and it still didn't do anything, by holding it over a convector heater, obviously not too close, but it was like a miracle. Every time I moved it away it flopped again until it really perked up and then it was fine..


----------



## catcoonz

QOTN ..... kittens breathing is fine, but thank god another experienced person is posting, was feeling I was on my own. x


----------



## catcoonz

Where have all the experienced breeders gone......

we could do with more suggestions please. (and vets ). xx


----------



## Soozi

I think we could do with all the experienced people that we can at the moment!


----------



## JaimeandBree

@catcoonz and @QOTN thank you for doing what you can to help BB and the wee man, I think I can speak for most of us posting and watching that we all feel pretty helpless and all we can do is hope and keep our fingers crossed, so I am thankful that there are some among us who can offer advice and the benefit of experience xxx


----------



## belleboris

I'm thinking sd has been latching on but not taking anything from mum , 
I've been making sure he's on but he must have been to week to get anything out


----------



## lorilu

xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Soozi

belleboris said:


> I'm thinking sd has been latching on but not taking anything from mum ,
> I've been making sure he's on but he must have been to week to get anything out


Hun you are not to know how much he is getting from Bonnie! Has he warmed up at all?


----------



## lymorelynn

Sadly my experience in hand rearing isn't very good. I don't feel that I can offer the sort of advice that BB needs. I've kept kittens warm in my top before and fed using a dropper. If you can get Small Dark sucking from a syringe or bottle then I would continue to hand feed
ETA - was he gaining weight when with Bonnie or were you feeding him too?


----------



## QOTN

catcoonz said:


> QOTN ..... kittens breathing is fine, but thank god another experienced person is posting, was feeling I was on my own. x


I am afraid we may be a little reluctant to say what we think. I have very little experience of this sort of situation I am afraid. I once had a kitten who was very ill when an infection tracked up the cord. B-haemolytic streps can sometimes be transmitted from a maiden queen to a kitten if she has not manufactured antibodies to it before she has the kittens. If breathing is fine then it is not likely to be milk inhaled into the lungs. The trouble is this poor little baby has not been well since birth. I know none of you will thank me for saying this but without colostrum kittens do struggle.


----------



## Jenny1966

Can't help at all, but keeping everything crossed xx

Keep fighting little one x


----------



## catcoonz

BB..... it is hard work for kittens to get the milk flow going, even harder for a weak kitten who finally manages to get the milk but then is too exhausted to drink.

Go back to hand rearing and putting with Bonnie, that worked before, so we go back to that.

You are going to need to ensure the kitten stays warm when with Bonnie, we cant have him chilled again, it wont be good. xxx


----------



## JTK79

Oh no  Fingers crossed he pulls through!


----------



## Soozi

QOTN said:


> I am afraid we may be a little reluctant to say what we think. I have very little experience of this sort of situation I am afraid. I once had a kitten who was very ill when an infection tracked up the cord. B-haemolytic streps can sometimes be transmitted from a maiden queen to a kitten if she has not manufactured antibodies to it before she has the kittens. If breathing is fine then it is not likely to be milk inhaled into the lungs. The trouble is this poor little baby has not been well since birth. I know none of you will thank me for saying this but without colostrum kittens do struggle.


Please don't feel reluctant to give any advice that might save this little one Hun! without other's help this little guy could die anyway. XXX


----------



## catcoonz

QOTN..... we all know there is a chance the kitten wont make it, reasons unknown, it happens and nature is cruel.
Whilst the kitten still clings on to life, we have to support whatever the outcome.

We just need to ensure BB doesn't blame herself, she needs support. xx


----------



## Cookies mum

could golden syrup be used instead of honey?


----------



## Kitty Kats

You are doing amazingly BB!! You have been doing everything that you possibly could for these kitties! ! Can you ring your vet maybe?


----------



## catcoonz

Lynn.... BB was always hand rearing this kitten, was only today she didn't and left him with Bonnie. xx

Thank you for replying, I know the outcome may still be sad but at least all the advise would have been given to help the kitten have a chance x


----------



## Elsiebea

Just checking in and i do hope sd can pull through. Your absolutely amazing BB and don't forget that whatever happens x


----------



## catcoonz

kitten gets cold quick when not down BB's top, any advise.

Put the kitten in a sock hun, that should keep body heat in.


----------



## JaimeandBree

catcoonz said:


> kitten gets cold quick when not down BB's top, any advise.


Is there something she could fashion to put around him to keep the heat it, like the emergency blankets they use for athletes or mountains rescues. To reflect the heat back in? Sorry if that's a daft idea!


----------



## catcoonz

Not a daft idea at all hun, thank you xx


----------



## lymorelynn

Keep him there - it's easier to check on him. Wrap him in fleece that's been warmed when he's warm enough to feed. I'm saying this but my own experience in this is not good at all


----------



## Soozi

JaimeandBree said:


> Is there something she could fashion to put around him to keep the heat it, like the emergency blankets they use for athletes or mountains rescues. To reflect the heat back in? Sorry if that's a daft idea!


Nothing is daft Hun. A warm fleece and Tin foil?


----------



## Azriel391

Probably another daft idea , washing up bowl , hot water bottle filled warm not boiling water in bottom , layer vet bed on top , fleecy nest / blanket on top Small Dark in middle snug .... sorry if rubhish idea


----------



## JaimeandBree

Soozi said:


> Nothing is daft Hun. Tin foil?


My first thought was tin foil but not sure if that would be OK to use on a kitten?


----------



## JaimeandBree

Azriel391 said:


> Probably another daft idea , washing up bowl , hot water bottle filled warm not boiling water in bottom , layer vet bed on top , fleecy nest / blanket on top Small Dark in middle snug .... sorry if rubhish idea


Like a Bain Marie or something?


----------



## JaimeandBree

Was telling my mum about it and she suggested a bit of tin foil in a sock? 

Just thinking out loud obviously no experience so not sure if there is a reason this would be a really bad idea!


----------



## Soozi

BB don't even think it's something you have done or not done! You have been truly amazing it's not your fault there has to be an underlying reason for this little one to be unresponsive you must understand that sweetie. Nature can be very cruel but you can only do what you can. Sending hugs! xxx


----------



## Azriel391

JaimeandBree said:


> Like a Bain Marie or something?


Something soft , moving n warm was my tought like mums tummy for comfort


----------



## ZoeM

As a human first aider, please can I advise not the foil blankets as they are fit for nothing. They reflect heat or cold depending on what the person's body temp is. They are ok for marathons as the runner is usually hot but sweaty. (I'd guess the same goes with tinfoil xx

I found this advice on a website.

If you don't have a heat pad, you can fill a clean sock with uncooked white rice or white beans until the sock feels firm. Tie a secure knot in the open end and place the sock in the microwave for 60 seconds. Test the temperature before you put the sock heater in with your kitten. Make sure the sock is not too hot. If your kitten is cold, you can curl the sock around him. You can also use a hot water bottle or soda bottle, filled with very hot water and wrapped in a thin towel. Place this in the box next to your kitten. Make sure the soda bottle does not roll on top of your kitten by placing a small object underneath the blanket to stop it rolling.

If you are using these alternative heating methods, you will need to re-warm the sock or refill the bottle with hot water at least every two to three hours. Use another towel or blanket to drape over the top of the box to keep the warmth inside.

It also suggests putting a ticking clock next to it as it mimics the mum's heartbeat and can make them more comfortable

Hoping so badly, he's okay, but @belleboris you're amazing at what you've done whatever the outcome xxxx


----------



## Kitty Kats

I just read this.

If you don't have a heat pad, you can fill a clean sock with uncooked white rice or white beans until the sock feels firm. Tie a secure knot in the open end and place the sock in the microwave for 60 seconds. Test the temperature before you put the sock heater in with your kitten. Make sure the sock is not too hot. If your kitten is cold, you can curl the sock around him. You can also use a hot water bottle or soda bottle, filled with very hot water and wrapped in a thin towel. Place this in the box next to your kitten. Make sure the soda bottle does not roll on top of your kitten by placing a small object underneath the blanket to stop it rolling.


----------



## lorilu

Any update? Like everyone else can barely breathe with hoping and praying


----------



## QOTN

This little baby has not done well since he was born. It is possible there is something wrong internally which has resulted in a crisis today. 

This is a very general observation but pertinent to this situation. The cat is a species (there are many such) who have several kittens at a time. Evolution does this to ensure the strongest survive. Evolution is not bothered about the weak ones. They are expendable. If all kittens born in the wild reached adulthood, the world would be over run with cats. We always do all we can to help our kittens survive but we sometimes have to accept the inevitable.

Belleboris, please keep trying to save this little one but accept that it is not possible for all kittens to thrive. It is better he slips away now than grows up to be a sickly cat who has a life of suffering.


----------



## catcoonz

There are many reasons why a fragile life fails, BB if this happens, it was nothing you did or didn't do, nature breaks our hearts but you must think how far Bonnie has come in her pregnancy, you got her this far with love and care and you still have kittens to love and care for. xxx


----------



## Hanlou

Poor little mite. xx  xx

You are doing so well @belleboris and whatever happens no-one could have done more for Bonnie and her babies xx

Thinking of you and wishing and hoping.....


----------



## Kitty Kats

Wow zoe great minds eh!!!


----------



## lymorelynn

I know everyone wants the best for this kitten - for all of Bonnie's kittens - but I hope belleboris is not feeling undue pressure from all of the kindly meant suggestions.


----------



## huckybuck

Willing little kitten to make it BB. You are doing everything possible to help it through and without your help neither of the two little ones would be here now. 

Sometimes things just aren't meant to be and if that's the case there will be a reason nature decided otherwise. 

In the meantime just praying for a little miracle. Love to all of you xxxx


----------



## JaimeandBree

I hope BB knows that we all know she has done a fantastic job to get the kittens this far and whatever is to come no one could have done more. I don't think anyone here, experienced or otherwise, is naive enough not to realise this may not have a happy ending no matter what is tried xx


----------



## OrientalSlave

The best place to warm is against you, with something over him. He needs small amounts if something sugary every 30 minutes or so. Warming such a tiny being with heat pads, hot water bottles & so on is fraught in many ways I'd rather not list. Ideally you would use rectal temperature as a guide, but he mustnt be fed milk until his temperature is back to normal.


----------



## Erenya

I have everything crossed for small dark. Come on little guy, all your PF aunties are rooting for you


----------



## SusieRainbow

Bubble wrap ? We used on babies we had to nurse naked if they ere having UV therapy for jaundice.


----------



## lorilu

JaimeandBree said:


> I hope BB knows that we all know she has done a fantastic job to get the kittens this far and whatever is to come no one could have done more. I don't think anyone here, experienced or otherwise, is naive enough not to realise this may not have a happy ending no matter what is tried xx


So true. And as someone else said, there may be something so wrong, the baby isn't meant to live, life would not be good for him.

Bonnie herself may know more than we do about her tiny one, and she may be the one who put him aside in the first place, first time she was left alone with them.

But I can't help hoping, all the same.


----------



## catcoonz

Sorry to say but the poor little mite is not looking good.
Bonnie is upset, BB is upset and I know we will all support BB and be there for her.


----------



## sarahecp

I'm off to bed now, hoping and praying for this little one. 

Thinking of you BB and Bonnie and sending love and hugs xxx


----------



## lorilu

@belleboris Thinking of you, sending you many hugs, showers of tears, and huge admiration for your dedication and efforts with this precious little life.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Going to bed in a minute so just want to send love and hugs to BB and Bonnie and the kittens xxxx


----------



## mudgekin

@belleboris i am totally in awe of the fantastic, amazing way you have handled everything. You have shown such love and caring to Bonnie and her babies.

If the worst should happen and the wee one doesn't make it please never ever think it's anyone's fault, sometimes nature just has to take its course no matter how ghastly and painful it is.

You have had incredible advice from all of the breeders and you have had such a nut pouring of warmth that I have never seen before on PF. I think in the future we will always remember belleboris, Bonnie and the babies.

Every night you are in my thoughts and prayers and hubby sends his best wishes also.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

catcoonz said:


> Where have all the experienced breeders gone......
> 
> we could do with more suggestions please. (and vets ). xx


Sorry, trying to juggle a few things at once this evening. You are doing a great job @catcoonz, as always, and @belleboris is too.

You can only try your best - I do agree with @QOTN that something may well have triggered this in the first place. It's worrying that he hasn't gained weight with the others.  I think we must all be prepared for the worst - but that's not a reason not to try.

I think all the ideas for keeping him warm are good ones. Be mindful that we don't send him the other way and cook him, though! Kittens are poikilothermic in the first days/weeks of life - they can't regulate their own temperature and instead take on the temperature of their surroundings. The only way they can cool down if they get too warm is to move away from the heat source, so you'll need to check him frequently or create a set up in which he can move to a cooler spot if he needs to (but then obviously you need to ensure he doesn't crawl to a cool spot accidentally IYSWIM).

If this little one is dehydrated and/or hypoglycaemic, he needs veterinary attention. That said, when they are so tiny it can be a lost cause anyway. I've lost these tiny ones just trying to get fluids into them before, they are so weak by the time we see them. 

Whatever happens, it's not for lack of trying BB and certainly nothing you've done or not done. It's super that Bonnie and her babies have come this far at all, considering how she had struggled with her pregnancies in the past.

How is the kitten now? Has he fed yet?


----------



## Catharinem

Only just caught up, can only echo that even experienced breeders lose kittens sometimes. But that's not saying give up, just know that you have done your very best, but it may not be enough. On the other hand, miracles happen, whilst there's life there's hope. 
Yes, golden syrup should be fine instead of honey. 
Not great timing for kettle to break, remember you can microwave water in a jug, or boil on the hob - don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you must be mentally and physically shattered and just think boil water = kettle. I know when I'm knackered I struggle sometimes,and whilst one or two nights is ok, after that I pretty much become a zombie. 
If you don't have dried rice or beans to put in a sock you can also microwave a potato and then wrap in a tea towel or flannel.
Stupid question, but was small dark pooing as well as weeing? Might be a digestive disorder leafing to constipation and lack of feeding, which then caused crawling away to get cold, instead of the other way around? Only a thought, but kitten would put on gradual Wright as built up poo not meat. Does tummy feel tight even though not eaten, or flat and empty? How are it's eyes opening in relation to others? Possibly Bonnie was mated over a long heat cycle, do bigger kittens could've from an earlier mating? Breeders normally mate over 2-3 days, but possibly stud mated over say a week? 
Nothing else comes to mind right now, will try to think if anything else.


----------



## lorilu

Still hovering....xxxx


----------



## belleboris

Small is wrapped up in a fleece down my top , he's not getting warmer and his frail cried are breaking my heart .
I know Bonnie would not have had the kittens if she hadn't come to me .
And then two would not be here still if I hadn't stepped in .
I feel devistated and have been sat having a sob on the sofa as this is heartbreaking , my daughter came down and made me a brew and gave me a hug .


----------



## KCTT

Keep doing what you are doing @belleboris I have so much admiration for you. All this little one has known since he arrived is the love and dedication that you and Bonnie have shown him. Thinking of you and praying for positive news in the morning xx


----------



## MCWillow

belleboris said:


> Small is wrapped up in a fleece down my top , he's not getting warmer and his frail cried are breaking my heart .
> I know Bonnie would not have had the kittens if she hadn't come to me .
> And then two would not be here still if I hadn't stepped in .
> I feel devistated and have been sat having a sob on the sofa as this is heartbreaking , my daughter came down and made me a brew and gave me a hug .


Just sending you lots of hugs and love honey....

You have done everything possible for these babies, and most importantly, Bonnie knows you have.

Keep strong - you are amazing xxx


----------



## belleboris

He actually hasn't had a poop today but he has a soft belly 
I have a spare kettle so I've got it from the shed I need coffee a kettle is a must .
The other two have opened there eyes and these still firmly have them shut .


----------



## Vienna1

So sorry you are going through this, it's heartbreaking. You are doing everything possible for him. It's hardly surprising you are feeling emotional you must be mentally and physically exhausted. Come on little one fight hard.


----------



## Alisonfoy

Oh BB, my heart goes out to you. No one could be trying harder to save those babies, and whilst it's good you can appreciate the positive aspects, it must be absolutely heart-breaking to hear those little cries and feel helpless to do any more. I'm glad your daughter is there to give you a hug, and there are experienced people like @catcoonz on hand to try and help. Really, I feel your distress. Sending you a huge cyber-hug and positive vibes to keep going. You are one amazing lady. xx


----------



## belleboris

Little man is struggling to breath , I now cannot do anything for him , I cannot get to the vets or I would ask them to end this now , it cannot be pain free , my heart is breaking but this little baby is still holding on


----------



## lorilu

{{{hugs}}}


----------



## Jesthar

*hugs* I don't have any advice to offer, but you are doing a fantastic job under very, very stressful circumstances. I had to syringe feed my two when they had a vomiting bug a couple of years ago, and just two days of doing that every two hours pretty much wiped me out. I can't imagine the exhaustion and the emotional rollercoaster you're going through right now 

Whatever happens, you have been a blessing to both Bonnie and her kits, please try and hold on to that *hugs*


----------



## Alisonfoy

BB, you can just hold him, keep him warm and let him know that he's loved. Be brave... Massive hugs xx


----------



## belleboris

Little dark fell asleep on my chest about 5 min ago. 
I'm numb , sleepy , and in need of food , I have no idea what to do with little dark , the kids are going to be heartbroken in the morning .
Thank you all for being here with me tonight , and cc for being on the other end of the phone .
Rip little dark


----------



## Alisonfoy

I am so very sorry. You must be exhausted and traumatised after such an emotional ordeal. Little dark was loved and cherished to the end. Perhaps it was not meant to be, but you eased his passing whilst sparing yourself nothing. Well done you and once again, I am so very sorry xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

I'm sorry love. 

I don't think anything could have saved this little one. But you - you made his passing peaceful and he was not alone. Well done.

Wrap him in a towel or blanket for tonight. Please get some rest xxxxxx

RIP little dark.


----------



## Jesthar

*hugs*

Sleep tight, little dark


----------



## lorilu

Good night precious Angel. xx


----------



## Rolacolacube

I'm so very sorry for your loss. You did so incredibly well to hold it together and bring peace to your little one.

Rest in peace my darling...you'll be pain free at rainbow bridge xxxx


----------



## claire8234

I've just been catching up on Bonnie and her babies. I am so so sorry you are going through this, my heart goes out to you. Small Dark may have only had a short time with you but he was given the very best life he could have and was comforted and so loved right up until the end. I have just started syringe feeding 5 kittens and after 1 day I am shattered, I dont know how you do it. You are amazing. Big hugs and lots of love to you,Bonnie and all your family xx


----------



## chillminx

I'm so sorry BB. (((((hugs)))))

RIP little baby.


----------



## JaimeandBree

Oh BB, I'm so so sorry. No few days old kitten was ever more loved or cherished. Sleep tight small dark, little angel. Hugs to you and Bonnie, BB xxx


----------



## sarahecp

Oh BB, I'm so sorry  you did everything could possibly could for small dark. 

My thoughts are with you and Bonnie xxxx

RIP Small Dark, run free beautiful xxx


----------



## Blue-BearUK

Aww  so sad. I had tears reading this. Do not forget you have done an absolutely amazing job! You really have.
May he rest in peace little love xx


----------



## Ali71

Oh I'm so sorry BB, thinking of you all and sending love. Rest in peace small dark x


----------



## idris

No one could have been more determined or full of care . It was not for the want of trying . Rip little one . Keep up the fight bb xxx


----------



## Susan M

I'm so sorry. 
You did all you could, he just wasn't ready for this world. Sweet dreams little baby xx


----------



## Tweety1977

Sending you my love and thoughts xx


----------



## Cazzer

So sad to hear about little dark. Please don't blame yourself. You have three kittens still, that might not have made it with their previous owner. You have beautiful Bonnie who is enjoying a better life with you x


----------



## huckybuck

Terribly sad and sorry with you.
You have nurtured loved and cared for Little Dark though it's short little life...and thanks to you LD has experienced safety, warmth, food, encouragement, affection and love which is everything a kitten could ever want. You have loved LD throughout and it was in your arms at the end. LD's little life will not have been in vain, there will be a reason it did not make it even though we don't know what it is at the moment.
Grieve briefly and then look at your 3 remaining precious little miracle babies with even more amazement and awe. Focus on Small Pink and use the wonderful experience Little Dark has given you to help it thrive.
Thinking of you and your children and sending huge amounts of love hugs and admiration xxxx


----------



## The Wild Bunch

So very sorry to read this. You did everything you possibly could for him and he couldn't have been more loved. RIP sweet little dark xxx


----------



## moggie14

I'm so very sorry hun. You tried your very best. RIP little sweetheart. Sending hugs XX


----------



## Erenya

I really don't know what to say. I am in tears for you. Stay strong, you have the thoughts, hopes and love of half of PF behind you.

RIP little one. It just wasn't to


----------



## KCTT

So sorry, nature can be so cruel at times. Run free little one hugs to you xx


----------



## Vienna1

So sorry you had to go through this, you did everything you could but sadly sometimes nothing can save them. RIP little one


----------



## MiloandTazzy

So sorry for your loss, Rip little dark


----------



## blade100

So sorry, you gave him love and you tried everything to get him better.
Rest in peace little one xx

How are the other 3 doing? How's mum?


----------



## Paddypaws

I am so sorry that Little Dark did not make it BB and I know you must feel heart broken.
I hope the remaining 3 continue to thrive and bring enough joy to seep away this sadness.
xx


----------



## Charity

This is so very sad and I know this is no comfort but I always think, if they aren't going to survive, better at this stage than later when they are a bit older. No-one could do more than you are doing and at least he passed surrounded by love. Sending you a big hug. RIP Little Dark.


----------



## Summ3rain

I'm so sorry  Thank you BB for giving him the best possible chance of survival, but it just wasn't meant to be... Be kind to yourself xxx I hope little pink and the other two continue to do well with your love and nurturing xxx


----------



## loroll1991

I am so very sorry BB for your loss. Please do not blame yourself, you did everything you possibly could for little dark. Sending you lots of hugs xxx Rest in peace Little Dark xxx


----------



## Jellypi3

I'm so sorry to hear the news BB.

But please DON'T blame yourself. Nature can be cruel but you did everything in your power.

Run free little baby xx


----------



## buffie

No words ,just great sadness that you have lost this little baby.
You did all you could to keep him with you but sometimes it just isn't meant to be.Sleep well little one xx


----------



## catcoonz

RIP Little One. xxx

BB, I am so sorry you had to experience the heart breaking side of kittens.
I am also sorry if I pushed you to keep going when it seemed like little hope.
I am angry that this situation was forced on you, what you & your family have been put through when all you wanted was to give Bonnie a loving home.

It is hard for me to say this but now you look forward, you enjoy the kittens you have, hopefully now relax and have the experience of watching Bonnie bring up her babies as it should be.

Previously, you asked why kittens don't suckle, I didn't want to answer your question as sadly the answer is many things, genetic, premature, just not meant to be.

Hugs to you & Bonnie. xxx


----------



## Matrod

Oh BB, I'm so sorry. You did everything you could for the little one so please don't blame yourself in anyway. Sleep easy little one & big hugs to you xxx


----------



## carly87

I'm really sorry to read the outcome BB, but unfortunately, this is one of the hard sides of breeding. I would urge you to use the contacts you've been given if anything like this happens again. Phone CC instead of texting. I'm guessing you'd rather not be in contact with me as you didn't use that avenue last night, but just be aware that in times of crisis like this, a phone is better than a forum any time, especially when you've got an experienced breeder on the end of it. CC does have experience dealing with ill kittens, so she's going to be a lot of help to you.

The kitten will not have been cold and unresponsibe because you didn't feed him. they might get slow and lethargic, but not cold this way, so don't beat yourself up about that. Sometimes there's a blood type incompatibility with mum and kittens which can cause this to happen in the first few weeks, sometimes it's genetic. You will just never know.

I know just how hard it is for you right now, but hopefully this is the end of your heartache.


----------



## ZoeM

Im so sorry that little dark hasn't made it. 

Thank you for trying so hard. We all are behind you here, and know you did all you could for the little mite. I hope you feel the same.

Thinking of you today,

Z


----------



## lymorelynn

I have just logged on this morning to see this sad news. I am sorry that small dark kitten did not make it. Such tiny lives are fragile and it is a miracle that Bonnie has come this far. No amount of 'why' or 'what if' will alter anything so please don't do that to yourself @belleboris. Take comfort in all that you have done for Bonnie. ((())) xxx


----------



## MoggyBaby

So very very sorry to read the sad news this morning. No words to express how sad this is. Our thoughts are with you and our prayers to keep his three siblings safe and well.

RIP Small Dark - loved till the end. xxx


----------



## Shrike

Condolences BelleBoris, you tried your very damnest. Best wishes to you and the other little struggler.


----------



## Firedog

So sorry for the loss of the kitten. Sounds like you are doing an amazing job. Good luck to you all.


----------



## Cookies mum

RIP little dark
BB you tried everything anyone could do to give the little one a chance of life, please look after yourself as well


----------



## Citruspips

So sad to read that Little Dark didn't make it. I guess it was probably just one of those things that could not be prevented, perhaps something he had been born with. 
Maybe Bonnie had known this little ones time had come and that was why he was seperate from the others when you found him. 
He was a very lucky to have you there to make him feel loved as he passed. I hope you and your children feel better about it soon and can go on to enjoy Bonnie and her babies in the way you deserve to. Xx


----------



## Catharinem

So sorry to read this. You tried everything you could, I've lost kittens occasionally, it never gets any easier. I've been sobbing at the vets before now, apologising for being unprofessional, but you can't not love something that dependent on you.
You were with him at the end, he fell asleep on you, and he can have a lovely burial. Please don't feel you failed him, could have been so much worse for him, his mum could have eaten him, this way he fell asleep and his precious body is unmarked. From stories of people with hypothermia who've recovered they report being sleepy, and (strangely) warm, and don't want to be disturbed, so I think at the end he went peacefully if that helps.
Keep going with the other little one, top up if needed but let it feed from Bonnie as much as it wants.
If we have to bury a cat or kitten we let the children put wild flowers, feathers or dried grass "to play with", might make it a bit easier for them. Hugs to you all.

.


----------



## JTK79

So sorry to hear this sad news  you did what you could. Sending hugs xx


----------



## Soozi

I am so very sorry BB this news is devastating for all! You did everything possible to help him it just was not meant to be there was obviously something seriously wrong from birth. I hope you find some sort of comfort in knowing you did everything you could to save him. RIP little dark. love to you BB and all your family. So very sorry. xxx


----------



## SusieRainbow

So sorry. Bless you.xxx


----------



## vivien

I have just read this BB. I have tears running down my face. God bless you. You did everything possible to help this little boy. You had some very good advice from CC, Shoshannah, QOTN, and Carly, as well as the rest of the forum. My heart goes out to you. But as others have said. If Bonnie wasn't with you she may well have not had her babies. So please don't feel bad. You did a good job trying to help little dark. Massive hugs for you. 

Viv xx


----------



## Elsiebea

I can't see the screen for my tears. Some are for the little kitty, but most are for you @belleboris and how upset you must be. How wonderful you have been and how lovely that little kitty's last moments weren't alone and were as comfortable as possible


----------



## OrientalSlave

Very sorry to hear this, unfortunately right now you have to keep going to look after the rest of the litter. Are you still feeding the other small kitten at all? If you are hopefully it's topping up and you can have a decent night's sleep tonight.


----------



## cuddlycats

r.i.p. little dark xx


----------



## lorilu

carly87 said:


> I'm really sorry to read the outcome BB, but unfortunately, this is one of the hard sides of breeding. I would urge you to use the contacts you've been given if anything like this happens again. Phone CC instead of texting. I'm guessing you'd rather not be in contact with me as you didn't use that avenue last night, but just be aware that in times of crisis like this, a phone is better than a forum any time, especially when you've got an experienced breeder on the end of it. CC does have experience dealing with ill kittens, so she's going to be a lot of help to you.
> 
> The kitten will not have been cold and unresponsibe because you didn't feed him. they might get slow and lethargic, but not cold this way, so don't beat yourself up about that. Sometimes there's a blood type incompatibility with mum and kittens which can cause this to happen in the first few weeks, sometimes it's genetic. You will just never know.
> 
> I know just how hard it is for you right now, but hopefully this is the end of your heartache.


She didn't breed this litter. She adopted a cat who turned out to be pregnant.


----------



## catcoonz

I asked BB to Text me, not phone me due to my own heath problems at the moment it is easier for me to communicate via text.


----------



## belleboris

thank you all , again the response from you all is amazing and the support invaluable .
I'm keeping going with small pink , he's gained 12g in the last 24h and is holding his own against the two brutes .
I'm topping him up still and he's taking 1ml so getting some from mum .
He's walm. Fat and loud so let's hope he stays like this


----------



## catcoonz

BB....Maybe time for a new thread "Bonnie & Babies". xx


----------



## Jesthar

lorilu said:


> She didn't breed this litter. She adopted a cat who turned out to be pregnant.


Carly knows this, hon. She was the first person to reply to BB on this thread.

Thinking of you, BB. Last night brought back some sad memories for me too, which I didn't want to share at the time. A couple of years ago I spent an evening with two friends with a little rescue kitten they were trying to save nestled in my own bra - so tiny. Sadly, despite all the efforts of those two skilled people, he passed away that evening, but thanks to them he knew love, warmth and comfort before he left this world. You've given that same gift to Small Dark *hugs*

So please to hear Small Pink is doing well  You really are all troopers - cats and human alike!


----------



## belleboris

Yes I think it's time to start a new post !


----------



## Forester

I can't find my own words and am fighting the tears back to post. For me HB says it all



huckybuck said:


> Terribly sad and sorry with you.
> You have nurtured loved and cared for Little Dark though it's short little life...and thanks to you LD has experienced safety, warmth, food, encouragement, affection and love which is everything a kitten could ever want. You have loved LD throughout and it was in your arms at the end. LD's little life will not have been in vain, there will be a reason it did not make it even though we don't know what it is at the moment.
> Grieve briefly and then look at your 3 remaining precious little miracle babies with even more amazement and awe. Focus on Small Pink and use the wonderful experience Little Dark has given you to help it thrive.
> Thinking of you and your children and sending huge amounts of love hugs and admiration xxxx


xx


----------



## popcornsmum

I'm so sad to read this but you did everything you could for LD bless his heart and it's wonderful what you are doing for Bonnie and the other babies, keep going and stay strong xx


----------



## GingerNinja

Sweet dreams Small Dark xxx

Lots of love and hugs to you BB, you are amazing and I know you will be focused on mum and remaining kittens now but I really hope you can get some rest soon xx

Glad to hear the other little one is gaining in strength and weight







and I agree a new thread is appropriate!


----------



## huckybuck

belleboris said:


> thank you all , again the response from you all is amazing and the support invaluable .
> I'm keeping going with small pink , he's gained 12g in the last 24h and is holding his own against the two brutes .
> I'm topping him up still and he's taking 1ml so getting some from mum .
> He's walm. Fat and loud so let's hope he stays like this


Brilliant news 
Warm, fat and loud suckling from Mum and topping up from you - Small pink will be getting stronger by the hour - simply wonderful!
Happily wandering off to find the new thread.....


----------



## Soozi

Fantastic news on little pink he sounds like he's doing well! He will be behind the other two but could end up being the biggest cat of them all! Lol! xxx


----------



## pollypage

Good and sad news, don't berate yourself it does happen and your doing a sterling job with the other chin up chuck xxxx


----------



## lorilu

To make it easier on everyone : )

Bonnie's Buns


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## Azriel391

Sleep well Small Dark xxx no one could have loved you more or fought harder for you xxxx Thinking of you @belleboris and sending hugs x


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## Reets

I'm so sorry the little one did not make it, he had the best care any kitten could possibly have. Sleep peacefully beautiful boy.

Love, hugs and total admiration for you BB xx


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## mrs phas

{{{hugs}}}


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## Burmesemum

So sorry to read this. Only just logged on. Love and (((hugs)) to you and your family and RIP little one.


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## Tigermoon

I haven't been on the forum for a few days as I've been unwell, but having just logged on this was the first thread I came to.

I am so sorry to read the sad news. You did everything you could BB but sometimes nature decrees another outcome. You couldn't have done more and little dark passed wrapped in warmth and love that he wouldn't otherwise have been afforded. 

I, like all other breeders have been in your shoes, and we fully understand the feeling of helplessness at such a time. But you can hold your head up high, and hopefully the rest of the litter will bring you a great deal of joy.


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## silvi

So sorry to hear about little dark, but you did the very best for him.
So pleased to hear that the other little one is perking up and that the larger babies are doing well.
Keep your chin up xxx


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## Little-moomin

Just a comment to say I am so sorry that little dark has passed. You are doing such an incredible job with these babies and bonnie - thank god for people like you. I am thinking of you and all the hard work you have put in - my thoughts are with you x


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## cava14 una

So sorry to hear about LD. You gave him a wonderful life and helped himm pass with love. {{{hugs}}} to you all and RIP Little Dark


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