# Another bad night at home alone with Cybi.



## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He is out of control, my husband has been at work all day and Cybi'a biting and growling is so bad its not just puppy nipping this is serious attack growling and biting and i really dont know what to do i've just put him in the kitchen and i'm honestly terrified of going back to fetch him after his time out.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

How old is he??? maybe you need a behaviourist, or possibley think of rehoming him if your scared he will pick up on that and use it against you.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He's 10 weeks tomorrow, i've tried everything when i'm trying to play with him with any of his toys he avoids them and goes for my arms and face or feet, if i ignore him for a while he will vicously attack whatever i'm sitting on and growl and bark at me.

i've tried bite inhabition but it seems to be making him worse.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

have you tried making him go in another room every time he trys to bite you? for 10 mins and then re try and when hes good reward him. What breed is he


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

What breed is he?

How long have you had him?

If his that bad at 10 wks why dont you get in touch with his breeder


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He's 10 weeks tomorrow, i've tried everything when i'm trying to play with him with any of his toys he avoids them and goes for my arms and face or feet, if i ignore him for a while he will vicously attack whatever i'm sitting on and growl and bark at me.
> 
> i've tried bite inhabition but it seems to be making him worse.


It made Bailey worse as well. Our trainer told us that it can excite some dogs even more and he was right in our case anyway.

Your boy's very young, he's only doing what sounds like normal puppy stuff. It will lessen as he gets older.

With Bailey we corrected him and removed ourselves from him, so he started getting the message that any mouthing activity would result in end of play/interaction.

It takes a lot of time but you'll get there!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

yep he goes in the kitchen every time he bites but he doesnt seem to understand why he's in there and that if he keeps doing it he will go straight back in there. 

We treat him whenever he is good (which is mostly when he sits for his dinner, when he goes to the toilet in the right place which he always does, give him a treat in the morning for spending the night alone.

He's a lab x springer


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## mookie&me (Aug 13, 2009)

Try praising him the second he stops biting, and give him a toy. In all the telling off, excluding, isolating and feeling helpless, you can forget to actually tell the puppy what you DO want him to do. Gradually he'll start to understand he gets GOOD attention when he's off your flesh 

My puppy is 15 weeks and the biting hasn't stopped, but lessened loads. You have WEEKS of this yet! Choose to carry on punishing and you'll be more frustrated; praise him when he's doing well and you have a chance of enjoying each other more. 

Good luck.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

I do praise him when he's good did you ont read the post above about treats NOTHING is working and its not stupid little nipping he draws blood from me every time i look like a reject from a horror movie he's given me more scars on my arms face and neck in two weeks than i've given myself in all my 22 years


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I always tried replacing my arms,legs and bum with a dog toy.
Another thing you could try is stuffing a kong and that will keep your puppy busy.
I bet we all have been there just like you.
It does get better honestly,its mainly a puppy thing.


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## mookie&me (Aug 13, 2009)

I read that you treated him when he sat for food or spent a night alone. I mean say "good boy!" literally the moment he loosens his grip or bite.

Any feedback on what others have suggested yet?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

It does sound as though the two of you are really struggling. I agree speak to a behaviourist and talk it through and perhaps have one or two private sessions with them so they can point you in some good directions. Also talk to the breeder as if they are experienced they may also be able to help you.
I agree with DKdream that if he senses he is making you scared the problem will not go away.
It is just puppy behaviour but you do need to do the right things otherwise you end up with an out of control dog.


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

My two sheps were terrible at 10 weeks old, they to used to bring blood but it was only hard play, every time they did it we walked away after giving a toy instead of us, i think its normal for a pup that age not that it helps your scars, also when we would sit talking or maybe on phone they would bark and pull at wherever we sat i took that to be attension seeking and we gave them kongs which kept them happy for a while, soon as they stopped biting us we would treat them we also used to say no quite loud every time they play bit and ignore them for a few mins this went on for mths but as they got older they got better , even now at nearly two they play bite with my oh but you cant even feel the teeth on his hands the constant no every time and stop play worked but took a long while , but we never showed fear as they pick up on that really quickly . hope things improve as he gets older im sure it will.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He has a kong but he ignores it, the breder said he liked tennis balls he ignores them he has ropes and bones and tubos and a teddy shaped like a dog and a box and toilet rolls and an empty coke bottle i try him with all these things but he avoids them and goes straight for my hands!!! 

You have to see it but he will bite on whatever it is your trying to give him for a mili second and then he thinks that you wont notice that he is inching closer to your hand and hen he pounces he just nearly tore my ear off and all i did was pick him up to take him from the kitchen after time out so he's back in there and i've shut the door.

We do tell him he's a good boy all the time when he is but when hes biting i dont like to say no because its negative so i try leave it or off but still no joy


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He has a kong but he ignores it, the breder said he liked tennis balls he ignores them he has ropes and bones and tubos and a teddy shaped like a dog and a box and toilet rolls and an empty coke bottle i try him with all these things but he avoids them and goes straight for my hands!!!
> 
> You have to see it but he will bite on whatever it is your trying to give him for a mili second and then he thinks that you wont notice that he is inching closer to your hand and hen he pounces he just nearly tore my ear off and all i did was pick him up to take him from the kitchen after time out so he's back in there and i've shut the door.
> 
> We do tell him he's a good boy all the time when he is but when hes biting i dont like to say no because its negative so i try leave it or off but still no joy


Just wondering what you're feeding him?


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

this is around 9wks and a very bad picture as the bites dont really show, but they were absolutely covering my arms biting anytime id go near him









But it does ware off, you have to have a look at what food hes eating, mine was on Beta and as soon as I changed to Burns the biting died off moreorless instantly. If you put them in the kitchen, you probably shouldnt be doing it for biting, (i expect you not but just thought id say) biting is really the start of a hyper game they play, the end of the game is them running around excited, not listening and basically enjoying being mischievous - jumping over anything, jumping at you from a few feet away or barking directly at you. 
You could replace your legs/arms with a toy yes, the teething process does make them want to bite and put pressure on their gums so ice cubes and sticks of carrot will help, he should be able to chew rawhide sticks which will give you a good 1/2hrs peace and a sleep too 
You mustnt be scrared of them though - if they see you moving your hand away when then try to bite you will only incite them, you have to be quick on your feet, so make your hands flat facing them so they cant get purchase on you. Its really quite a complicated process in handling them, 99% of the time they are looking to see what they can get away with so if you show hesitancy or freedom of rules they will exploit this and make their own rules (part of the breed you have really). You have to be consistent and non aggressive, use distractions, walk out of the room, put them in their crate to cool off or if you do put them in the kitchen - if going nutts, leave them until they have completely settled... this will be a longer period of time than the crate as it is more unfamiliar


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## posy (Sep 11, 2009)

Springer spaniels are working dogs and are noted for being very active.Cybi is seeing you as a sibling that he can outfight.At this age in the wild he would be play-fighting till he dropped with his litter-mates.many puppies are adjusted to domesticity but you find the odd few that need constant amusement when awake that they would get if still with siblings.He is possibly reacting to feeling insecure at having left his litter-mates,the sudden change in routine is a big shock for some pups, usually the more intelligent ones.He suddenly had a huge lifechange and he is suffering emotionally, but he ,for some reason is seeking relief from his insecurities by 'playing' the games with you that he remembers in his happiest memories.He is a 10wk old puppy who should be playing or play-fighting nearly all of his time awake. I know this doesn't cure your problem, but maybe it will help if you understand why he is doing it, and that it is NOT that he doesn't love you, but he has put you into the role of his puppy brother to help with his grief of losing him.Get Help ! Kindest Regards *posy*


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He's been on a special mix from the vet because he had a bad tummy when we got him home but that ran out 2 days ago so he's on pedigree chum pouches, we have scince plan dry food but i'm not sure what you do with dry food do you give it to him as it is or do you put water in it or something (my mums peaks always had wet food they are too small for dry)


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

HighlandQuine said:


> Just wondering what you're feeding him?


Fingers, hands, feet and ears by the sounds of things.


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

Hi, when my pups were the same age i used to play with a knot rope with one of them he got so near my finger pulling at it i ended up with three stiches in my finger , but it was just play, i think it helps if they know a sound thats says enough, have you tried the yell loudly every time he goes to bite you i dont find it negative it worked for my two its only a sound to them not a word, that they learn what it means after a while , i have had sheps for 20 years i can only try to help with how we have stopped our doing it but it does take a while its just play to them but i do understand that it hurts ,


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> Fingers, hands, feet and ears by the sounds of things.


LOL!! That made me laugh!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

My arms are exactly like that james! the worst one runs the length of my thumb and its actually an open wound but that one was partly my fault because when he bit down really really hard that time i instinctively withdrew my arm.

I just cant wait to walk him and burn out some of his energy! a week from today we will be living in our new home with a big garden for him so that should help.

I understand that he is bored all day and if he had a voice he would be screaming iwannaplay at me non stop!

I do feed him ice cubes he has lots of fun with them, i also wet a towel and froze it for him.

... i might go see him in a minute. All i want is a cuddle where he doesnt try and eat my face!!!!!!!!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

just as a thought are you exercising him in your garden enough - throwing balls etc, and do you have a sleep routine in place?

If his bad tum has cleared up get him off pedigree immediate, they would do better eating from rubbish bins, its full of everthing you dont want them to have. Burns was good for my springer, highly recommended.


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

I'd get him on to a better quality food that doesn't have so many additives etc.

We had to do this with Bailey and the difference was amaxing.

He has a mix of Autarky dry food and NatureDiet wet food. He has a really senstive tum but these foods are great because they don't have rubbish in them so it agrees with his tum plus it's helped to calm him down enormously.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

jeanie said:


> Hi, when my pups were the same age i used to play with a knot rope with one of them he got so near my finger pulling at it i ended up with three stiches in my finger , but it was just play, i think it helps if they know a sound thats says enough, have you tried the yell loudly every time he goes to bite you i dont find it negative it worked for my two its only a sound to them not a word, that they learn what it means after a while , i have had sheps for 20 years i can only try to help with how we have stopped our doing it but it does take a while its just play to them but i do understand that it hurts ,


Yes i've tried the yelp and he looks at me like i'm an idiot then bites my toes lol

i suppose its quite funny when you think about it i think my dog is smarter than me :/


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> Yes i've tried the yelp and he looks at me like i'm an idiot then bites my toes lol
> 
> i suppose its quite funny when you think about it i think my dog is smarter than me :/


He's just one of those pups who hears a loud yelp and to him that's an exciting noise and excitment means play and that's all too exciting and yay, yay, mouthing!!! They just frenzy out, I know exactly what you mean.

Don't do the high pitch noise, it seriously is only winding him up!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

So what do i do with these science plan dry food then?

I have purina aswell if thats better dry food??

i really have no idea what to do with dry food lol 

i had a giggle today at bottles of doggy gravy in morrisons ... it looked like bottled runs


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

I was watching a dog with a clicker earlier and cybi was sitting on my knee and he looked up every time it clicked ... i'm going to have to buy a clicker.

WHat does everyone put in kongs? i was putting paste in cybi's lol


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

you have to keep on with the ouch, but as the same with anything else once you use it, dont use anything else to tell him that hes hurting - and dont sit there, get up ignore him and do something else.
If he is tring to jump on furniture while your on it dont allow him to, your a lot more effective when your above them and they are on the floor. Walking over you is a slight sign that he can ... literally walk over you, dont allow it in the slightest


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

science plan is caked with crap, dont use it


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

Well that made me laugh im sorry lol, we had to put ours on JWB as they were on beta and the vet said it was making them hyper , so we changed it very slowly they did cool a little after that , we also used to play with them with those kids bubbles in garden which tired them out for a while , and kept then happy jumping for the bubbles


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> So what do i do with these science plan dry food then?
> 
> I have purina aswell if thats better dry food??
> 
> ...


Get rid of those foods! LOL!

With dry food you don't have to do anything, just weigh out that he's getting the right amount and put it in their bowl! Easy!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

so what food should i give him??? 

this is going to sound awful but something not massively expensive lol


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

posting again sorry, he wont be biting you - you say he bit down really hard and you withdrew which caused the injury. He is teething and game playing he will try to suckle at this age so if he does go to bite...... let him take your fingers and you should see that the instant nip is replaced with a 'chew' that isnt hard at all, this would be a good stage to introduce the ouch - when hes cooler and listening, though dont believe it will sink in quickly it takes hours sometimes days and weeks - you just have to be consistent. In the end though (few months) youll have a dog that will be at your side and be engaged in what your asking it. Find a good trainer too and enrol in some.
Do you work at all or are your with him throughout the day? as he could well be bored, frustrated etc etc at being left if he doesnt see people...


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Burns mini bites costs around £38 for 15 kg delivered..... Burns Mini Bites - Dry Dog Food

this is the site I used and they are excellent.

15kg will last you over 3mths at this age so its about £12 per month or £3 per week, which for a quality food like this is probably around what your paying at the moment and definitely cheaper than Science plan


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

I would recommend Autarky and NatureDiet, both excellent IMO!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

HighlandQuine said:


> I would recommend Autarky and NatureDiet, both excellent IMO!


Isnt Autarky a working food? at this age you want less fat in their system so they are a little more controllable?


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

james1 said:


> Isnt Autarky a working food? at this age you want less fat in their system so they are a little more controllable?


No, not exclusively for working dogs. Their range gives guidelines for resting, build up and working dogs.

It's good stuff!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

Well we didnt actually buy either of those foods, the breeder gave us the purina and the vets we use in pets at home gave us the science plan so if we dnt use it nobody loses we didnt pay for it lol.

I take it butchers puppy wet food is bad 2? my mum bought us a pack of 6 for him.

What about pedigree chum tubos and markees can i give him then?

i've seen someone talking about pero or peru from pets at home and they said it was good.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

My youngest is the first pup we have fed burn and i cant believe the difference in her and our other 2 when they were pups she has always been so calm and if you can say that about springers then it has to be good and you have all the other benefits of feeding a natural good quality food,definetly worth trying burns.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Apols if I'm repeating anything that's been said before, but I've quickly read through.

Cybi sounds like a normal puppy to me, some pups are calmer than others, and unfortunately others are complete nutters - it's down to individual character. This is normal puppy behaviour and not aggression or nastiness on his part. 

I personally would not reward a pup that bites by replacing the offending limb with a toy, I don't think it works. The only thing that worked for me was crating or separating for five mins, and then just allowing the pup to rejoin the rest of us by opening the door, no verbal invitation but just let them join in again. 

I think you said that Cybi had had a dodgy tum somewhere near the beginning of the thread? You need to get him settled on a food and keep him on that, chopping and changing between foods will exacerbate any problem. He might have had a dodgy tum just because pups do sometimes when they go to a new home, they are in a new environment, and are usually jabbed, wormed and flea treated all on top of each other, which can overload their system a bit. I raw feed mine, and have done since they were pups. Both rescue oldies I had were changed over as they wouldn't eat their senior complete when there was chicken wings around 

My younger bitch, Tau, was a nightmare as a pup, she had me tearing my hair out with her biting and jumping all over me and everything else. She's grown up into a well behaved young lady now though, although she still insists on mouthing me when she greets me, but then she is a retriever, and they do love to hold things in their mouths.

Don't make the mistake of walking your pup to tire them out, you may potentially damage the developing joints by overexercising. The 'rule' is five mins per day of formal lead exercise for each month of age - this guideline is to prevent you from exercising where the pup has no choice but to walk, as it's on lead. Play exercise is good, where they have the choice of lying down when they're tired, as is simple training for a pup, recall and sit. Buy yourself a copy of John Weller's book 'A Simple Approach to Gundog Training' (it's very good value for money) - incredibly easy to read and understand to teach your pup basics, it does go on to include gundog work, which as your pup is a cross breed of two gundog breeds, he will probably enjoy doing, even if you never plan to compete or work with him.


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

we had a lab and he was very mouthy, he got very excited at times and would bite too hard. it does get easier but i think the key thing is consistency and perseverence, whatever method u choose to deal with it, stick with it, no matter how long it takes. u need to be confident and patient. could u go to puppy parties or puppy classes so he can socialise with other dogs and u can talk to other owners and see ur not alone. i think the mixture of breeds thats in him mean he'll be very mouthy and hyper. do u give him chews or bones? another good one is a biscuit ball to play with, carrots, frozen apple, these things sooth their teeth. i found it better to remove myself from the room when he was getting too hyped up rather than removing him. me going and shutting the door had more of an affect and when i went back in i never looked at him or spoke to him. also stand ur ground, u be boss. one last thing, he's intelligent so spend time training him, do basics like sit, stay, down. it'll be nice relaxed time together. i found that i couldnt get cuddles from fletcher unless he was sleeping for ages, i thought a puppy was all cute and cuddly but they mostly just want to play or sleep or investigate. best of luck


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He is out of control, my husband has been at work all day and Cybi'a biting and growling is so bad its not just puppy nipping this is serious attack growling and biting and i really dont know what to do i've just put him in the kitchen and i'm honestly terrified of going back to fetch him after his time out.


Hi sweetie i'm so sorry you're having trouble again. Whatever you do do not put a muzzle on him!

Ok if time out isn't working then i would suggest you take yourself away from him. Get up walk away and ignore him for a while. Stop all play, if it happens when you do play with him.

My sister did this with what was our Cocker Spaniel, Woody. if he bit her excitedly she tapped him on the butt, said No and walked away from him. He would get really down when he was ignored. he knew she was well angry with him too.

A question - and i can't remember you mentioning this before but do you take him for training classes? If not perhaps you should and then also ask advice from the trainer about what to do?

I hope i helped. Keep us posted.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I know its been said not to replace your hand thats being nipped by a toy but i have used that method with all my pups and its worked every time, a loud yelp when they bit our hands and a good girl/boy praise when they turned the bite onto the toy, they quickly learned that the toy was the right thing to bite.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I know its been said not to replace your hand thats being nipped by a toy but i have used that method with all my pups and its worked every time, a loud yelp when they bit our hands and a good girl/boy praise when they turned the bite onto the toy, they quickly learned that the toy was the right thing to bite.


It might work, it's the theory behind it that worries me, your dog does something wrong, and so you're rewarding it by giving it a toy, if you see what I mean? I just used a stern 'No' with mine, once, if they did it again picked them straight up and crated/separated. There isn't a right or wrong way to do it, but I'm happier treating the behaviour as wrong, rather than using diversionary tactics, which I see as actually rewarding, if that makes sense?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Does the puppy mouth/bite your partner as well, or is it just you?


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2009)

I havent read all the posts but my recommendations would be make sure he is on a good quality food (no additives etc) as this may be giving him excess energy. 
Make sure he is getting lots of short training sessions to challenge him mentally; this will drain his energy more than you would think! Thinking for 10mins can tire a puppy out more than a 30min run!
When he bites, make a noise (yelp or whatever) and replace with a toy. Or walk away and ignore him for a short time just dont look at him, dont fuss him, and it doesnt need to be for too long a period either (5mins is plenty). Whatever method you use make sure you stick to it and be persistent. It wont change over night, patience is the key!


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> just as a thought are you exercising him in your garden enough - throwing balls etc, and do you have a sleep routine in place?
> 
> If his bad tum has cleared up get him off pedigree immediate, they would do better eating from rubbish bins, its full of everthing you dont want them to have. Burns was good for my springer, highly recommended.


Agree. Pedigree is slightly better than Bakers - but only slightly. Ditto the stuff the vet sells you at an exhorbitant price.

Burns is a good make. JWB used to be, but it was taken over by Pedigree I believe so I'll reserve judgement - not sure if they changed the recipe or not.

I feed Autarky which is one of the better, cheaper dry foods. My dogs do very well on it.

The trick is to find what YOUR dog does well on, however. An expensive food that someone else's dog is fab on might well not suit your dog. I know a lot of people who have tried expensive, very high quality food and found that their dog does best on....... Chappie 

Actually, on the subject - don't diss Chappie for when they've got dicky tums; it can be really helpful and let's face it, if you're going to feed bland crap, you might as well feed cheap bland crap as the expensive muck the vet tries to flog you


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It might work, it's the theory behind it that worries me, your dog does something wrong, and so you're rewarding it by giving it a toy, if you see what I mean? I just used a stern 'No' with mine, once, if they did it again picked them straight up and crated/separated. There isn't a right or wrong way to do it, but I'm happier treating the behaviour as wrong, rather than using diversionary tactics, which I see as actually rewarding, if that makes sense?


When you say crated/seperated...personally i wouldnt use the crate as a "time out" punishment place - it is the den "safe place" with good associations, not a place for a naughty puppy.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> if you're going to feed bland crap, you might as well feed cheap bland crap as the expensive muck the vet tries to flog you


This made me laugh


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> I feed Autarky which is one of the better, cheaper dry foods. My dogs do very well on it.QUOTE]
> 
> Yay, another Autarky fan!


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## flufffluff39 (May 25, 2009)

Ummm this is a wierd suggestion but he could be in pain!!!! or the worst have some kind of neurological problem???


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Savahl said:


> When you say crated/seperated...personally i wouldnt use the crate as a "time out" punishment place - it is the den "safe place" with good associations, not a place for a naughty puppy.


I've never had any problems asking them to go in their crate, or just popping them in a separate room (when they lived indoors). It was the act of putting them somewhere that they couldn't then repeat the behaviour, and it had to be done as soon as the unwanted behaviour occurred.

Their crate was left open at all other times, and they never associated it with 'punishment' - the separation was made very little of, it was done wordlessly, and they were let back out without any verbal encouragement, or stern words.

Sometimes *we* think too much about these things, and I don't think the dogs associate the two things together to be honest. Tau, my main offender, used to run to her crate with glee when I was getting ready to go out, because she got a Kong toy whenever I left her to go out for a bit.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I've never had any problems asking them to go in their crate, or just popping them in a separate room (when they lived indoors). It was the act of putting them somewhere that they couldn't then repeat the behaviour, and it had to be done as soon as the unwanted behaviour occurred.
> 
> Their crate was left open at all other times, and they never associated it with 'punishment' - the separation was made very little of, it was done wordlessly, and they were let back out without any verbal encouragement, or stern words.
> 
> Sometimes *we* think too much about these things, and I don't think the dogs associate the two things together to be honest. Tau, my main offender, used to run to her crate with glee when I was getting ready to go out, because she got a Kong toy whenever I left her to go out for a bit.


If they are being put in without being told off and its just a chill out then its fine - a den should be a place for the dog to be happy to go to. Buster will go in and out of his quite happily. 
I just thought it should be clarified that it shouldnt be a "punishment" to a new dog owner who may not know better while saying "NO!! BAD DOG! IN YOUR CRATE!" so the dog does associate it with a punishment - rather than calmly putting the dog in while they calm down.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Savahl said:


> If they are being put in without being told off and its just a chill out then its fine - a den should be a place for the dog to be happy to go to. Buster will go in and out of his quite happily.
> I just thought it should be clarified that it shouldnt be a "punishment" to a new dog owner who may not know better while saying "NO!! BAD DOG! IN YOUR CRATE!" so the dog does associate it with a punishment - rather than calmly putting the dog in while they calm down.


It's a good point, I never associate a place with punishment, in fact I don't even regard that I *punish* my dogs, they're told off verbally rarely, and I don't need to separate them ever now. Punishment to me implies some sort of action against them, which I don't think is actually necessary or does anything except make your dog fearful of you? In my mind, there's a difference between correcting your dog, where I will use gruff growly voice and mannerisms, and punishing a dog, although everyone's understanding of these phrases will be different I guess.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

What have you read in order to prepare yourself for your pup? Or what knowledge did you have prior to getting him?


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

I've had 6 other dogs all from puppies but they were a very different breed to Cybi lol.

Well today Cybi is being fantastic lol

I went to pets at home after dripping my hubby off at work and I bought a eukanaba puppy box for 97p and its got a clicker a book a voucher and a food sample for puppies. I also bought some kong stuffin and a picked up one of each things from the pick and mix puppy treats (which i got for free  from the boy behind the counter lol)

I then bought a cooked chicken and have stripped the legs and been using the clicker with him and he is brilliant he really responds to the clicker so i think we have found our training method lol. He also tried a bone that has charcole (thing that spelling is wrong?) in it and he has crunched it up lol.

He is currently worn out and asleep between the blankett and the sofa (its like a tent so its is den)

I will be taking him to puppy training classes but he has 3 more weeks of not being able to socialise with other dogs yet he gets his next injections a week today - he's also getting microchipped at the same time. 2 weeks after that we start the training sessions - there only £1 each time you go which i was really impressed with.

Someone asked if he bites me and the hubby yes he bites my hubby more than me but he winds him up so its his own fault! Then if i try to tell the hubby what he should be doing he has a strop with me lol.

So i was looking at dog food in pets at home what is everyones opinion on i think its called james well loved or well being? it seems quite cheap but eukanaba is well expensive lol - who buys their dog food from pets at home?


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

Just wanted to add - we dont have a crate maybe if he does begin to get destructive we will consider it but my mum never crated her dogs so its not something i really want to do.

AND i would NEVER put a muzzle on him he's my baby and that would just be so cruel. i'd rather he ate me - i obviously taste good lol


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> Just wanted to add - we dont have a crate maybe if he does begin to get destructive we will consider it but my mum never crated her dogs so its not something i really want to do.
> 
> AND i would NEVER put a muzzle on him he's my baby and that would just be so cruel. i'd rather he ate me - i obviously taste good lol


Glad to hear you sounding happier.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

I am much much happier i love Cybi to bits but i am so emotional when he gets nasty with me lol.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

James well beloved has been OK for my cocker and i noticed a marked improvement in the mouthing when i switched from Purina. Just remember any switch should be done gradually .

Oscar was a very "mouthy" puppy and there were times when it felt like it would never stop but calm consistent and more importantly persistent training WILL pay off . I found just removing him or myself worked for him as any interaction just wound him up. Each dog is different 

Just as a tip, you can fill the kong and freeze it so it lasts longer and will soothe teething


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

I feed mine James Wellbeloved alternately with meat from the butchers. I get my JWB from the Range as it is cheaper. 
I am glad it is going a bit better for you.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> I am much much happier i love Cybi to bits but i am so emotional when he gets nasty with me lol.


I know how you feel. For a split moment it's not the sweet little thing you brought home:cursing:. It's a evil little monster but it pass's and we love em. you can alway's pm me if you want a moan


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## brackensmom (Jun 15, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> I've had 6 other dogs all from puppies but they were a very different breed to Cybi lol.
> 
> Well today Cybi is being fantastic lol
> 
> ...


Hi, just caught up with your post, so pleased things are better today for you, well done on the clicker, i am currently using Wainwrights food from Pet at home, and my dog seems fine on this, i only got it because i couldnt get his usual and i checked the ingredients and was very similar to his usual. Good luck and keep up the good work with the clicker and i am sure Cybi will soon stop the nipping.


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Glad to hear things are better today!


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

Really pleased to hear things are better today , clicker training is very good , and dogs do seem to learn fast with that way of training .


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

glad things are much better. i can relate to what ur sayin about hubby playing rough, my OH did that too and got fletcher wound up, i would say if he gets excited and bites too hard, its ur own bloody fault!! next time he's being devil dog just remember how much u love him and how it will all be worth it in the end


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Corrine3 brings up a good point, half of the time puppy owners encourage a pup to interact, and then when it goes beyond what they want, the pup is 'out of control'. You do need to be consistent, and it sounds as though you have the prior experience to recognise this.

But I just have to say yet again, it is not nastiness where he is biting, it is normal puppy behaviour, you are not experiencing anything different than umpteen other puppy owners. Tau hasn't got a nasty bone in her body, and yet as a pup she was a bl$$dy nightmare, until she learnt about mouthing, she still does it, but is much more gentle. She wasn't and isn't nasty, it was a learning curve for her about how much and how hard she could bite things.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He's still being really great tonight  

he sat on my tummy for 45 mins earlier eating a hide twist, its the first time he's used his paws to hold it still bless him  

Another question when giving him dry food, how much should i measure out per meal?


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

So glad things are getting better for you and Cybi.
We have 5 dogs and our lab x springer has been harder to train than the rest of them put together! :wink5:
She is 3 years old now and an abolute delight, but it has been very, very hard work gettting her to this stage.
Persevere and you will end up with a gorgeous, adorable dog who will repay you a million times over.
Josie (our lab x springer) adores her ball and it was one of the best things we ever did getting her interested in a ball. She also loves the rest of our dogs (and us ) and is an all round great friendly dog!

Good luck - it will get better. Just be consistent!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He's still being really great tonight
> 
> he sat on my tummy for 45 mins earlier eating a hide twist, its the first time he's used his paws to hold it still bless him
> 
> Another question when giving him dry food, how much should i measure out per meal?


It should tell you on the packet somewhere.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He's still being really great tonight
> 
> he sat on my tummy for 45 mins earlier eating a hide twist, its the first time he's used his paws to hold it still bless him
> 
> Another question when giving him dry food, how much should i measure out per meal?


There should be guidelines on the pack or website but really i would just start using the new food as treats for a couple of days them replace a hndful of usual food with new food and gradually over a weeks or so increase


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

well i got a free measurer from the vet and the bag said 50g to 87 so i put 60 but does that mean per meal or spread out between his three meals? it looked like a heck of a lot of food lol.

I love it when he's just eaten though I pick him up and is his little round bol


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## astro (Jan 20, 2009)

_I then bought a cooked chicken and have stripped the legs and been using the clicker with him and he is brilliant he really responds to the clicker so i think we have found our training method lol._

I found that cooked chicken gave my dogs the runs...until Cybi's tummy is settled again, you need to be careful what you feed him. Chappie has been mentioned before, and I switched my dogs from Natures Diet to Chappie and they've been "regular" ever since. I also add a teaspoon of goat's milk yogurt to their meal every 3-4 days which provides beneficial bacteria for their digestive system.
Good for you for using clicker training! They're never too young to start. Mental stimulation is great for tiring him out.

_I will be taking him to puppy training classes but he has 3 more weeks of not being able to socialise with other dogs yet he gets his next injections a week today - he's also getting microchipped at the same time. 2 weeks after that we start the training sessions - there only £1 each time you go which i was really impressed with._

It is annoying that one of the most important times in a puppy's life for socializing is spent waiting for vaccinations...sounds like Cybi could really do with some dog-to-dog interaction.

_Someone asked if he bites me and the hubby yes he bites my hubby more than me but he winds him up so its his own fault! Then if i try to tell the hubby what he should be doing he has a strop with me lol._

Cybi is getting mixed messages here. You and your hubby need to agree to be consistent with his training. "No" means "no"!


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

astro said:


> Cybi is getting mixed messages here. You and your hubby need to agree to be consistent with his training. "No" means "no"!


lol i know! I keep telling my hubby what to do, he's been in work since 3 today and he wont be home till 3am and i'm working 7 am till 3pm tomorrow so i will have to show him what i've been doing with Cybi tomorrow but my hubby will get it, he's never had a puppy before he had a dog and his mother couldnt cope so she gave him to another family member


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## kelseye (Aug 16, 2009)

use a muzzle i would untill you can get help from ie a vet or a pro dog trainer


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

kelseye said:


> use a muzzle i would untill you can get help from ie a vet or a pro dog trainer


you really are quite sad arn't youut: oh don't forget to tell op to tell the pup off when it pee's on the carpet. If you've got dog's i feel sooo sorry for them


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

kelseye said:


> use a muzzle i would untill you can get help from ie a vet or a pro dog trainer


I'm sorry but this is not a good suggestion at all. I haven't advised on this thread yet as I don't have any valid constructive experience to offer, but I have learned enough to know this isn't a suitable option. If you are experienced, trained and qualified in positive reward based dog training methods, and puppies especially, then I stand corrected.


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

kelseye said:


> use a muzzle i would untill you can get help from ie a vet or a pro dog trainer


You know,you really shoudn't offer advice like this.
You have no idea what you are talking about


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

bucksmum said:


> You know,you really shoudn't offer advice like this.
> You have no idea what you are talking about


He or she was shocked because someone didn't tell a 8 wk pup off for peeing in the house


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

if youve owned plenty of dogs before you should have an idea how much to feed them, but ....... weigh the food out and make sure the measure amounts on the cup match those on the scales - kibbles do have different weights.

Just as a thought.... why not tell your husband to quit taunting him, hes possibly generalising that anyone that comes near him is there to play or 'attack'. You both need to be consistent especially when young, you cant have a good cop bad cop thing going on. This is where you might be having the problems stem from but may take a week to work out of him. 
They are highly impressionable so keep to good rules - both of you
Glad your not in bits and able to type


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

kelseye said:


> use a muzzle i would untill you can get help from ie a vet or a pro dog trainer


I'm sorry - but is this week a week for people to be stupid?

YOU'D MUZZLE A 10 WEEK OLD PUPPY AS WELL WOULD YOU? :cursing:


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

james1 said:


> if youve owned plenty of dogs before you should have an idea how much to feed them, but ....... weigh the food out and make sure the measure amounts on the cup match those on the scales - kibbles do have different weights.


Yeah but a VERY different type of dog, peakingese are tiny compare to a labrador springer cross i've never fed dry food before (which should be obvious given the questions i'm asking)

A hunt of how much dry food would answer my question better than telling me i should already know, if i knew i wouldnt ask lol


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

AmyWithey said:


> A hunt of how much dry food would answer my question better than telling me i should already know, if i knew i wouldnt ask lol


well it entirely depends on the kibble and their guidelines, id have a guess at 220g rising to 300g as a minimum in 10 days time, ive only got purebred springers so i dont know about larger feed amounts but mine are on 250g

.. its not obvious youve never dry fed btw


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

james1 said:


> well it entirely depends on the kibble and their guidelines, id have a guess at 220g rising to 300g as a minimum in 10 days time, ive only got purebred springers so i dont know about larger feed amounts but mine are on 250g
> 
> .. its not obvious youve never dry fed btw


Really? i thought i was asking really stupid questions lol.

THank you  that helps a lot.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

It can vary HUGELY between different brands.

It should be clear on the packaging if it is a daily amount if not check out the brands website


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

re the dry food amounts usually on the back of the food packet there are guidelines this is per day. So as your dog should be fed 4 times a day upto 12/16 weeks then down to 3 until 6 months old you split the food up per serving. Hope this helps with your query. So what dry were you thnking of putting the pup on? As some can make them hypa.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Remember the amounts on the back of the bag are only guides - and they tend to err on the generous side for obvious reasons 

By all means use it as a base - but I tend to feed according to how the dog looks, not by what the manufacturer tells me.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

at the minute i'm gradually putting Cybi onto Wellbeloved as a lot of people recomended it to me and its not over priced like eukanuba which Cybi spat out and didnt like anyway lol.

He is a little better now we have a house with a nice big garden! He loves running around but almost got a seed stuck in his eye the other day i was desperatly trying to get it out and evenutally i did woo.

He is getting more upset when we leae him now though i think it is because its a different house and he needs to get use to it all over again.

He;'s turned into a proper little mummys boy 

We got his second jabs on saturday and got him microchipped and boy oh boy did he scream when the needle went in with it i felt awfull  but he was really good with all the little kids that wanted to stroke him i was worried he might try and nip one of them but he didnt he was perfect  ... now he just seriously attacks my husband oh dear :/


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> at the minute i'm gradually putting Cybi onto Wellbeloved as a lot of people recomended it to me and its not over priced like eukanuba which Cybi spat out and didnt like anyway lol.
> 
> He is a little better now we have a house with a nice big garden! He loves running around but almost got a seed stuck in his eye the other day i was desperatly trying to get it out and evenutally i did woo.
> 
> ...


LOL. Glad things are settling down.

Just a tip when you take him out and about take a kong with some cream cheese smeared in it. If you meet kids who want to pet him get out the kong  It will teach him to lick rather than chew and make a good association with children.


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

He is brilliant with kids already he was just being licky and his tail was going ten to the dozen lol - i think it helped that the breeder had 2 young kids


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

AmyWithey said:


> He is brilliant with kids already he was just being licky and his tail was going ten to the dozen lol - i think it helped that the breeder had 2 young kids


excellent.

Any pictures ???


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## AmyWithey (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes loads of pictures but no proper internet connection to add them yet! we've just moved home and are getting everything connected so as soon as it is i will load some pics of Cybi  and some cute ones of him with my mums dog


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