# time with stud



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just curious as to what others think or believe, my only unspayed girl, went to stud in May, she was only kept overnight, and i didnt feel it was long enough even though she was mated, 
She had her kittens last night, 2 ,i was shocked,she has never had less than 5 with my own stud,who i now neutered as are my other girls, 
I am curious because when here with my boy she was left with him for several days, which resulted in 5 kittens the first time and 6 the next,
A friend of mine used my stud boy one time and as she was goin on holiday only let her girl 2 days,which resulted in only 2 kittens,the next time she left her 5 days which resulted in 5 kittens,
I am still shocked that i have only 2 kittens, 
What are others ideas on this, it does seem strange, and the stud tihs time had just fathered 5 kittens to his own resident girl,so i dont think the fault is there
This girl will be spayed now,which was the plan anyway ,but she was in season too long so decided to get her mated once more


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Curious about why she was only at stud overnight, but not sure it's the cause of the small litter. Maybe the very long call is a pointer?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Mine have always mated over 3 days, resulting in 1-7 kittens. Know of girls mating once and having over 5 kittens. Have heard if left to call too long they can have smaller litters.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I dont think it was the long call,she always has long calls, i was just shocked,i stayed with her from start to finish and was waiting for the others to arrive, lol
I had a feeling she wouldnt have a big litter though as she wasnt very big,
The reason she was only at stud overnight was because the stud owner said
they had mated a few times, i was surprised she wanted her gone after a night, and i did question if she had been there long enough,


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I read the results of a fairly extensive study (though there are probably a number and each will say something different!) into queens' fertility and the number of kittens born as a result of them having been mated at various different stages of estrus. Surprisingly (to me) it showed that queens mated later, on day 5-6, of their call overall produced larger litters than when mated on days 1-3.

I can't say that I've personally collected 'data' of my own experience of breeding cats which show an overall trend to back up the findings of that study. But over the last few years, certainly, it hasn't been the case. One of my queens, having been out to stud this year and mated numerous times over a four day period (which ran into the near the end of her call) produced two kittens. She had previously been mated to two young, inexperienced studs (one my own and another owned by a friend) with only a couple of matings being achieved each time and she had five and six kittens. Another of my queens mated just once by one of those boys produced six kittens. And with another few girls over the last few years, again there was no correlation between how many matings took place and the number of kittens they had.

In your situation, I would have been far from happy though, being asked to take my girl home after one day and would have pretty much (nicely) insisted that she stay for longer. Obviously, you are not paying for 'x' number of kittens with a stud fee but you ARE paying for a service which I personally think is lacking if the stud owner wants the queen gone after one night.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

It might just be a coincidence that she only had 2 but i do know when she was with my own boy that her previous litters were large ones,but as said earlier i left her for a few days with him, i have sent the pics of kittens and mum as she said when my girl had them she would be intersted to see them. just seems strange that all


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I used to send a girl out to stud where she was settled in the queen's quarters overnight, mated the next day and picked up the following day. I used this particular stud twice and the resultant litters were six and eight kittens. My boys have always indicated when they've finished with any girl and the average time they're truly interested is around two days. From this 'typical' scenario there have usually been litters of five or more. I've had people bring girls who had a singleton followed by a girl who had eight so I have no time for the generalism that it's the stud who determines the number of kittens. A cat either does get pregnant or doesn't and when you consider the number of sperm involved in the process it's unlikely to be the stud not producing 'enough'. I do go along with the idea that some cats are just not particularly compatible on a biological level and I would expect fewer kittens in a litter as a girl ages depending on how many kittens she's had previously.

There is a train of thought that a queen starts with way more potential kittens than you end up with and reabsorbs some at a very early stage as part of the normal process. Presumably she should then be regulating the pregnancy to what she can cope with. I have no idea what factors are involved but I do tend to ask owners to pick up a less than happy queen much earlier than one who is obviously content just in case.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I believe the issue with the stud is spines on his penis, not the number of sperm he produces, since it's the stimulation of his spines that gets her to ovulate. However girls will vary in their response to this stimulation.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_I believe the issue with the stud is spines on his penis, not the number of sperm he produces, since it's the stimulation of his spines that gets her to ovulate._
I have wondered if this is the only thing with ovulation. When you watch how a stud boy uses his feet at the base of a queen's tail it's very similar to the acupressure method used to stop girls calling. Perceived wisdom is that he only does this to get the girl into position but I'm not at all sure that's the whole story. A thought based in nothing more than observation of course


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I dont know if the stud had recent;ly mated with another girl before mine , but that might make a difference, my girl was calling for another week at least after this mating, but i know they dont always stop calling immediately ,she only 3 so not too old


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

How long does she normally call for? Maybe she was mated too early in her call?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_I dont know if the stud had recent;ly mated with another girl before mine , but that might make a difference,_
I know what you're thinking but again my experience says it won't be a factor. It's something I joked about with an owner who put two cats to my stud boy, one straight after the other. I normally wouldn't have two queens in such quick succession but both being from the same household meant I'd entertain it. The second girl had a bigger litter than the first.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Surprisingly (to me) it showed that queens mated later, on day 5-6, of their call overall produced larger litters than when mated on days 1-3_
I have noticed an increasing trend in owners ringing me to bring their girl to stud as soon as they notice her coming into call. I worked for years on the practice of taking a girl on day three of* full* call. I think owners are worried they'll miss the call if they wait.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

My preferred mating days are day 3 and 4 of the call. On the whole I have found that the stud will mate enthusiasticly on the first day, with less vigor on the second day and completely ignore the girl from that moment on. This has happened with every stud I've owned regardless of his age or experience. The number of kittens in the litter seems to have no baring on the timings, nor the number of matings.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> _Surprisingly (to me) it showed that queens mated later, on day 5-6, of their call overall produced larger litters than when mated on days 1-3_
> I have noticed an increasing trend in owners ringing me to bring their girl to stud as soon as they notice her coming into call. I worked for years on the practice of taking a girl on day three of* full* call. I think owners are worried they'll miss the call if they wait.


My girls have to go on day 1 as they only call for 2-3 days so for me I genuinely CAN miss the call! However they are the exception, and both have had large litters. One went out of call but came back in after a few days with the stud.

Their mum was the same - she never called for long after her first litter but had two large litters before I neutered her. I wonder if their daughters will be the same as well? Cats that don't call often or for long are fantastic until you want them pregnant...

I always ring as soon as the girl comes into call to see if the boy is available etc.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_I always ring as soon as the girl comes into call to see if the boy is available etc._
Oh yes, I'd expect the heads up but that phone call is usually also to organise for the queen to come to me in a few days - or at least it used to be. More and more I find myself saying to owners that they don't need to rush her straight over - unless they have cats they know have short calls


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

That could be true,she wasnt very far into it, but the stud owner was collecting her as i dont drive,so she came for her, and wanted to cpollect her straight away as soon as i said she was calling,sorry didnt finish this post yesterday .dont know why
She is acting very strangely, might take her for a check up today,she was running from room to room as if looking for something,hardly used her tray and not eating a lot, 
She seems fine in herself apart from this,going to book her in today


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Is it just possible that she has more to come? You posted just after Midnight Tues morning, saying kittens born last night. If that was Mon night she had them, now being Thurs morning, there's just a very outside chance she has more to come. I've known a queen ( not mine, a moggy of an acquaintance), have 2 kittens Friday night, and a third on Monday morning. Would be very unusual indeed, but with going off food and running around looking, maybe just maybe...?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have made an appointment anyway, but i dont think there is anymore, i did have a Tonkines cat who had 7 kittens and she had another live one the day after,
I am just worried that something may be left behind, but not used the litter tray excep for a very small wee, will update when i am back from the vet


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Been to the vet with her,hes examined her cant feel anything that shouldnt be there,but she has a slight temperature,but hes given her an oxytocin injection just in case and an antibiotic one, hope this will make her feel better and eat more


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