# Diabetic rat's back legs paralysed - help!



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

My ratty got diagnosed with diabetes a few weeks ago *he's 1* and this morning we woke up to find his back legs paralysed and he looks very poorly  He's snuggled up in my dressing gown currently, with syringes and his water bottle on hand and he ate a grape but other than that, he's very sick  Also dehydrated I think, as I don't think he's been able to get his water bottle overnight -- anything quick solutions to dehydration? He's going downhill quick and I need help


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

Keep going with the grapes as they are good for dehydration & nutrients, but the only other thing I can suggest is take him to the vet?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I would take him to the vet hun, if hes not eating and not able to get about they may be able to do something for him, if not then the kindest thing might be to have him pts, hopefully they will be able to help him though (((hugs)))


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

It could be HLD (hind leg degeneration). I have had one elderly rat with this and it came on overnight like your rat. Some rats can continue to live like this for a while as long as they have access to food and water.

My poor boy was trying to drag himself around and was getting sore from laying in his own waste despite me moving him frequently and he was unable to eat properly so after 3 days I took him to be pts...was a heartbreaking decision but he was suffering.

I would suggest a visit to the vet and see what they say.


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

Oh I forgot about that! My rat has had HLD for a good few months now and he copes fine, but he has to live in a separate 'retirement home' with the other old rats to make sure he is getting enough food/water/etc, and to make sure he can't fall off any high surfaces.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks for the replies everyone <3 He's had a grape, four teaspoons of strawberry and banana yoghurt and a bit of sausage/egg sandwich (a tiny bit) -- hasnt really been drinking though. He's either got HLD or he's had a stroke  I'm due to go to my dad's tonight so if I'm still going, I'll bring him with me and give him constant care and keep prompting him to eat and drink -- I doubt there's anything the vet can do but will see about making an appointment as well. She said she's never dealt with a diabetic rat before so  I've had a stroke rat before who died within a few days  but he was paralysed on one side and not the back legs alone so fingers crossed for my little Felix.


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

Good luck with your little guy 

I've heard of rats recovering from a stroke in a few days - it's not unheard of, just keep giving him constant care, and if he won't drink you may have to syringe water for him. Hopefully he's just a little dehydrated, and he will be back to his old self in a few days


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Lavenderb said:


> It could be HLD (hind leg degeneration). I have had one elderly rat with this and it came on overnight like your rat.


Classic HLD does not, and cannot, come on overnight. It is a long, slow GRADUAL decline, not what you describe, that would more likely be a stroke or similar.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

He refuses to drink or be watered by syringe  vets is closed, dunno what to do!


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## Laura123 (Aug 6, 2012)

Could you try flavoured water or yogurt? Try something different like ice cream or an ice cube. Do you have an emergency vet you could call?
Laura


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Flavoured water is a good idea, thanks! He's had yoghurt and lots of food. And its in the city and very very expensive


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

I think you really need to consider taking him to an emergency vet. If he was my rat, I would get him a steroid injection ASAP. That would reduce and swelling in the brain if he's had a stroke. It will also increase his thirst and appetite. Is their anyway he could of fallen? I think it sounds like he could of fallen and hurt his back. Steroids would also help that as it will reduce the swelling.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Will see if he's still alive when my mum gets up *I'm not at the same house* and suggest emergency vets. He didn't fall -- he'd been on the bottom tier all day.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

He's still with us -- had some apple juice and something to eat but he's no better. He's not a happy ratty  Emergency vets is £70 a call-out so that's a no-go so will have to wait to Monday for vets. any ideas?


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

Ask the vet if you can pay in installments. He really needs to see a vet ASAP even if it's just to have him PTS.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I dont want to seem harsh but you really need to find the money, ask to borrow it from everyone you know if need be, if this was a dog or a cat who had lost the use of its legs and you didnt take it to the vets immediately you would be getting slated for it, in my opinion every animal down to the tiniest mouse needs the same consideration. As Snippet has said you can call round to all the local vets, explain the situation and ask to pay in installments .


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## bluegirl (May 7, 2012)

Is your vet not open at weekends? Ours does half day saturday and a 2 hr slot on sundays. These are normal rates.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

No offence, but that did seem harsh. I care so much for my animals and we're already paying in installments for my other pets, and for Felix's other visits. My rats are like my kids, so the whole 'even the smallest animal' thing is bullcrap to me -- once we spent over £300 on one rat just to prolong his life and I don't regret it. I'm absolutely torn up over this and am struggling with the decision with whether to put him to sleep -- the logic being he is eating and drinking. My vets open on Monday and he'll be going then.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry but he needs the vet before Monday


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree with Bernie. If he's really unwell then there's a good chance he won't live to see Monday. When rats are ill, they can go from looking fine to being dead in a very short amount of time. You need to talk to your vet. I'm sure they will be understanding if you are already good about paying off your current vets bills.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

To take him on an hour journey to the city by car, stressing him, for a stressful injection which might kill him through shock? Not only that, but its incredibly expensive. If he goes through any needless pain and suffering -- then yes, I'd have to make that decision and put him down but at the moment, I'm praying he pulls through.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Ive also spent a fortune on my rodents in the past and although I was trying not to be harsh if it came across as such it was a lot less harsh than I could have been, you have a pet who needs to go to the vet, it is in your own words "not a happy rat" despite the treatment you are giving at home, I never once said you didnt care about him or didnt love your animals, if that was the case you wouldnt have bothered to post on here and would not be giving him the care he has had, however it doesnt alter the fact that this animal needs veterinary treatment now.

I am not a wealthy person either and have been in the position where Ive had to borrow money to take an animal to the vets in the past, its not a nice position to be but if they need the vets at the weekend, which due to Mr Sod and his law is usually the time they fall ill  then you HAVE to find the money from somewhere. I do hope he holds on till monday, and I wholeheartedly hope he isnt suffering in the mean time but I stand by my original post that he needs veterinary treatment now and its your job to get it.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

But what is worse, stressing him out a bit so he can get the treatment he needs, or leaving him to suffer? £70 is not expensive for an out of hours vet. I've known of people spending upwards of £100 just for a consultation.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree with Snippet, he will have been suffering for a further 24 hours+ if you wait until Monday 

Oh and it cost me £280 for one of my rats when he had to have emergency care. £70 is very reasonable IMO.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> To take him on an hour journey to the city by car, stressing him, for a stressful injection which might kill him through shock? Not only that, but its incredibly expensive. If he goes through any needless pain and suffering -- then yes, I'd have to make that decision and put him down but at the moment, I'm praying he pulls through.


Can I just ask, have you actually called your vet for some advice? They may be able to offer you an installment plan . To have him pts and end his suffering won't cost that much surely.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

when one of my boys went into resp distress i rushed him to out of hours 30 miles away, the fee just to walk in the door was £100, and £100 on top of that for the treatment. i took him home the next day and he lived for another year afterwards. 

many people have money problems, but you just seem to be making up excuses why you cant take him to an out of hours vet and pay more money for it. so instead you are going to leave him to suffer so you dont have to pay as much to be seen by a vet. :mad2: well i hope he lives till monday just to satisfy you.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

He needs a vet now, not on Monday. You would not be needing to pay out for an emergency appointment if you'd taken him as soon as his symptoms showed up instead of coming on the internet to ask for advice instead of going to the vet in the first place. Fact of the matter is, if you don't take him to the vet, you are breaking the law - any animal that needs it has to be given immediate veterinary treatment, £70 is very cheap compared to what I am charged here -I have spent hundreds of pounds on veterinary treatment for my mice to ensure that they get the medical attention they need at the time they need it. It being expensive is no excuse, you have an animal that needs a vet and you should be taking it regardless. As has been suggested you could ask about a payment plan for the appointment. Have you called the vet to see if they can give you some advice over the phone? That would have been my first reaction at finding any of my pets ill, not coming on a forum


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

wow... yes, he's been to the vet before I came here and she says shes never treated a diabetic rat and to just watch him and see how he goes. I'm through with everyone on this forum acting so high and mighty. I am aware of the five freedoms... I _did_ get a national diploma in animal management and have owned animals all my life. I came on the forum because I couldn't find a lot on the internet and just wanted some support from likeminded people who maybe had some ideas I hadnt tried *like the flavoured water, which worked by the way*. This rat is my baby and I have loved and cared for him, and I'm not prepared to just give up -- he's eating, he's drinking, he can shuffle around and he's aware of his surroundings but you lot are pressing for euthanisa... yes, I'd think differently if he couldnt walk/eat/drink or a combination of all three, but frankly, I'm willing to give him a shot at life and coax him through it, as he's trying to hold on. He doesn't have solid poo at the moment, but has ventured out his bed for food and water (theres also a bottle of apple juice within reach). Tomorrow, we will ring for advice and go to our trusted vet on monday.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm not saying 'oh, you must have him PTS'. I don't think anyone is. I simply said he needs to go to the vet ASAP for either treatment (which he needed yesterday IMHO), or if it's something like a tumour invading the spinal colum PTS as the prognosis for something like that is hopeless, and it's probably painful as well.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

That's the impression I'm getting from you all. All they can give him is a steriod injection or anti-inflammotory -- both of which never really work as I've had rats have them -- and they only really get used when the rat isnt eating or drinking. He doesn't need a sub.cut injection as he's drinking and keeping himself hydrated. He doesn't have a tumour, I've already said he's had a stroke from diabetes.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

I think people on here come over much harsher then they mean to as it's hard to read a tone into the written word. The treatment for strokes is a steroid injection and prophylactic antibiotics, but it needs to happen fairly shortly after the original stroke to have as much chance of reversing any damage that occured as possible. You've said it yourself, he's not a happy rat at the moment. If it was a stroke, I'm sure he's got to be in some kind of pain.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> My ratty got diagnosed with diabetes a few weeks ago *he's 1* and this morning we woke up to find his back legs paralysed and he looks very poorly  He's snuggled up in my dressing gown currently, with syringes and his water bottle on hand and he ate a grape but other than that, he's very sick  Also dehydrated I think, as I don't think he's been able to get his water bottle overnight -- anything quick solutions to dehydration? *He's going downhill quick *and I need help





xXhayleyroxX said:


> *Will see if he's still alive* when my mum gets up *I'm not at the same house* and suggest emergency vets. He didn't fall -- he'd been on the bottom tier all day.


The parts I have highlighted are the reasons that people are coming across so harshly. Your first post on the thread was at 1pm on Friday afternoon. If the rat was that poorly at that time he should have been to a vet at that time. And as he was still so poorly at 9am the next morning that you weren't sure whether or not he was going to make it then that is enough of a reason to get him to the vet immediately. We can see that you love your rat, we all love our pets, but to come on and ask for help knowing that your pet is so poorly and you don't think he is going to make it as he is clearly "not happy" then your rat needs help and we will direct you tot he person who can give you the most help. And that would be your vet, as snippet said some medicines can be given for strokes but there is a very small window of time for them to be given.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

We can only go by what you wrote, all I said is your rat needs to see a vet before Monday.
I still stand by that 100%....


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

what annoys the hell out of me is when people want help so they post on a forum like this one asking for that help. people come on and read said plea and answer personally to what they read in said plea. 
now if you are big enough to write said plea for help on an open forum and ask for help or opinions then you are big enough for the answers you may get in return. 
YOU asked for help! people have helped. YOU have then made up excuses as to why you cannot give the rat the care it needs, and that does not mean pts. and then you expect not to get opinions on this? what land are you currently living in? the rat needs care, you are neglecting this and you expect everyone to keep quiet. 
well if you dont like the answers dont write a thread on an open forum in the first place, instead of having a hissy fit when people give their opinions, which you dont like, why not give the rat the care it needs and go see a vet. 
but i suppose its ok as having a diploma means you know everything about rats now so you obviously know whats best for the rat over the years and years of training a vet does.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> ... I _did_ get a national diploma in animal management and have owned animals all my life.


I didn't read this thread when you first PMd me for advice. This brings a few more things to the subject that I wasn't aware of.

I do have to say, though, that having a diploma in animal management means diddly squat in someone's ability to care for animals, or their knowledge on animals.

I have a national diploma in animal management, I've done the same course.
And I only did it so I had something 'on paper' to put on CVs when applying for animal jobs. I know I have a lot of animal knowledge, but thats not always good enough when applying for jobs; they want to see some sort of qualification. Thats the one and only reason I did that course.

And I'll state now, absolutely, that the course was a complete sham.
I can tell you honestly, hand on heart, that I learned NOTHING from it that I didn't already know, and was told a few things I know absolutely to be BS.
Sitting in the classroom going through the most basic of things that I knew when I was 12 was incredibly tedious.

80% of the people on the course were only doing it because animal care was considered an 'easy' option, and most of them were so basic in their animal knowledge that several didn't even know what 'spaying' meant. 
The 'small animal tutor' didn't know even a percentage of what I knew on rats, and frequently told me things I knew to be untrue, like she'd gotten all her info from a rat care book written in the early 90s, ie, rats are fine kept alone, tanks are great homes for rats, keep them on sawdust, have them put to sleep if tumours occur as 'its not worth removing them'.
Yep.
In fact, for one assignment, I had to write a paper on breeding rats, how to do it properly, how to care for the mum and babies and so on.
I did it all from my existing knowledge, wrote pages and pages.

And I was then accused of plagurising what I'd written, because, in their words 'that seems a lot of info for you to have come up with on your own'. 
I was speechless. I didn't NEED to plagurise anything, I knew what I was talking about just by experience and prior research years ago when I first got rats.

I could go on.....but my point is, having a diploma in this particular course means nothing at all, and it certainly means nothing to me when someone claims to have one, because I know how ridiculous that course is.

Anyhoo, I agree that you should have sought vet care for your lad earlier, I think I assumed from your PM that he was already under-going vet care, or that you were going to take him anyway but just wanted some info to tide him over til then. 
If it is a stroke, some rats can recover without meds or vet care, and I only know this from the experiences of friends who have had rats exhibit stroke symptoms, then over night pick up and eventually be fine. 
It can happen. But in my experience, it is rare. More often, the stroke will either kill the the rat outright (in time) or the rat will recover, then have another one.....then another.
We had a girl like this who had a stroke, got treated, and picked up for about a fortnight. She then had another stroke. Same deal, treatment and recovery, then another stroke a few days later. In the end, we did opt for PTS as the gaps between strokes were getting less and less and she was making less of a full recovery each time.

Your lad is one. He's in his prime, he's not an old rat, so he has a better chance of recovery.

Also, out of interest, how was his diabetes diagnosed? In 16 years of rat ownership, I've never knowingly had a rat with diabetes, and it can be hard to spot. It definitely exists in rats, but its not really common, Im just curious as to how your vet diagnosed it, for my own future reference if I suspect it in one of mine.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

He's dead now.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> He's dead now.


Very sorry to hear that . At least he is no longer suffering .


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## LynseyB (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear he died. Did he make it to the vet?

What was his name?


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

He died 1am last night and was called Felix.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Sorry that he died but maybe if you had taken him to the vets on the Friday when it happened he may have recovered and been given the proper meds to sort him out.
Instead he was left to suffer.
I'm sorry but I'm not pussy footing around, an animal that is in your care is your responsibility and you shouldve taken him to the vets straight away.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

I really don't think it's fair of you to make me feel guilty when there's nothing that can be done now and he had diabetes, which he was struggling with. He wouldn't have had the best quality of life if he'd survived from his stroke anyway, and being such a small little animal, the chances of that were low... I've taken a stroke rat to the vets as soon as it occured and it died. Before he had the stroke, he was completely soaking his bed in urine, and it had to be changed constantly as he was lying in his own mess -- the diabetes made him obese and he was constantly lethargic due to the disease and never wanted to be bothered. He would constantly sleep by himself and had to watch his brothers get treats and yoghurt while he had to have a plain diet. I really don't think it would have been fair and he wasn't in any noteable pain -- I know that much. He went snuggled up to me and knew he was loved, and was eating and drinking and shuffling on the day he died. If he's survived, he still would have been paralysed.
Considering my gran died this June, what I don't need is for people to guilt-trip me when I did what I thought was best -- which was to stay with him and provide him comfort and love instead of stressing him out (he absolutely hated the vets) in what was a difficult time for him. Apologies if I had a 'hissy fit' before but this year has been awful for me and all I did is come here for support and I got riduculed and it was implied I was being cruel. Harsh words is not going to save my rat and all you've done is made the whole experience so much worse for me and my family. All this community has done is made me feel crap *as a whole, some members are lovely* when all I've done is be nice and provide people with free pet paintings. I absolutely adored Felix and I'm in pieces.
All I ask is for you to keep your horrible words to yourself and maybe visit his rainbow bridge thread if you want to pay respects.

As for Shadowrat -- you asked how he got diagnosed with diabetes. He was urinating and drinking excessively, was born abnormally large, had a very calm nature and was constantly tired and didn't want to come out, alongside obesity which was genetic. He was taken to the vets, where she tested his urine and confirmed diabetes.


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## Laura123 (Aug 6, 2012)

Sorry to hear your wee guy didn't make it.
Laura


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2012)

Sorry to hear he didn't make it.

Have to say that you were far from being ridiculed, you asked for advice and that is what you got.


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

I asked for advice, not for opinions -- yes opinions and not fact. And a guilt-trip. Anyway the matter is closed.


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## katie200 (May 11, 2009)

((((((((((((((((((((((Massave Hugs))))))))))))))))))))) sorry for your loss hun, I know he ment a lot to you. RIP felix.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

If you post on an open forum you get opinions. its part of an open forum. if you dont want opinions dont post. its that simple. 

rip felix


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

I kinda figured that out considering I've been on forums for years ;D There's a difference between opinions and forcing distasteful opinions on others who are upset. I love how no one commented on the comment where I mentioned the life he would have had when he survived and only replied to the bit where I said your opinions were harsh. The matter is closed -- in other words, stop commenting. Take your own advice, its an open forum and because someone has an opinion different to you (ie me) -- doesn't mean you have to go on the defence and get all aggro. I'm going to stop replying and giving you ammunition to be honest, I have better things to do than be distateful to people on a forum.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> he had diabetes, which he was struggling with. He wouldn't have had the best quality of life if he'd survived from his stroke anyway,
> Before he had the stroke, he was completely soaking his bed in urine, and it had to be changed constantly as he was lying in his own mess -- the diabetes made him obese and he was constantly lethargic due to the disease and never wanted to be bothered.


 you said yourself here that his life would be terrible if he survived the weekend so why were you so upset when you THOUGHT people were saying to put him to sleep? people were not even saying that but as you stated above, it would have been best as his life wouldnt have been good. but then again a vets visit for steroids might have made him better, but you didnt try that. 
and now im going to leave this alone cus im fed up of you moaning about others opinions, i.e. my opinion, which on this open forum im allowed to have whether you wish it or not, thats just the way it goes love.


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