# 12 wk old puppy still not sleeping - please help



## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Hello everyone. This is my first post here and basically I'm at my wits end. I have a 12 week old cockapoo and he's been with us for a month. He's adorable, clever, a quick learner and very loving.

BUT - he will not sleep straight through the night, crying out at least 2 times, sometimes more, and he could go for hours. I have tried literally everything. Crate training, crate door open, no crate, new bed, hot water bottle, ticking clock, my jumper, radio, soft lighting, ignoring him, soothing him - seriously everything! I haven't slept a full night in a month. Last feed is at 6pm, last drink about 7.30pm.

On the advice of a trainer, who has said my puppy has bad separation anxiety, I am trying to ease him into his bed time routine. He's said it's important not to let him get too distressed on his own and not let him cry for longer than 15 mins. Instead of letting him sleep in our bedroom (which I don't want to do) I am sleeping downstairs with him and I'm gradually increasing the time I leave him. I guess it's the same principle as sleeping beside the bed.

He's in a high sided cardboard box (crate just didn't work out) and I am right beside him. The first night I slept with him the whole night and he was quiet. The second night I left him for two 1 hour slots between 1-2am and 4-5am. He started to whinge about 4.50am.

The next night I did 12-2am and 3-5.30am. He started to whinge at 1.45am and went out for a poo. Quiet the rest of the time.

Last night I tried to push it further by leaving him at 11.30pm and seeing if I could get a full sleep until 5am. But he started whinging at 1.30am and went outside for a poo. I slept with him till 3am. Then he started again at 5am, when I went to him and he did a wee outside.

I took him out again at 7am, wee outside. Brought him in, gave him his breakfast and went to get ready for work and came down to a poo on the floor.

I think it is reasonable to expect a 12 wk puppy to sleep from at least 11-5am, but he just won't do it.

I'm so tired and weary. My patience levels are at an all time low.

I have a lovely friend who is willing to rehome him and will give him a lovely home.

I really don't want to do this but I can't go on.

Can anyone please tell me they had a similar experience and it all worked out?


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

joey1981 said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first post here and basically I'm at my wits end. I have a 12 week old cockapoo and he's been with us for a month. He's adorable, clever, a quick learner and very loving.
> 
> BUT - he will not sleep straight through the night, crying out at least 2 times, sometimes more, and he could go for hours. I have tried literally everything. Crate training, crate door open, no crate, new bed, hot water bottle, ticking clock, my jumper, radio, soft lighting, ignoring him, soothing him - seriously everything! I haven't slept a full night in a month. Last feed is at 6pm, last drink about 7.30pm.
> 
> ...


Yes had similar but he was a bit younger, 8-9 weeks. We put down puppy mats and praised him when he used them and yes I was up and down with him about three times in the night before he settled down.

After about 3 weeks he was down to one wake up call to go out for a poo but was quite happy to use the pads for weeing on throughout the night.

Now at 7 months he sleeps through if I take him pout just before bed time and straight away at 5am when I get up. we still have the odd night when he won't settle but its not that bad.

I do have to admit one thing he does now come and sleep in our bedroom with us, I know we've probably made a rod for our own back but we are going on a long caravan holiday soon and won't have room for a crate so he has to get used to sleeping in the same space as us

Its working out fine and he's not waking at all in the night


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Are you taking him out when he wakes as he probably still can't hold his bladder, but consistency is the key and it sounds like you haven't actually given anything too much of go seeing as you've tried so many things in just 4 weeks, my youngest dog was still still waking and not sleeping through past 20 weeks of age, the only way I got her to sleep all night was to let her on the bed, she now either sleeps on the bed or by the side of her bed on the floor.

I think you are at the stage where the puppy blues hit hard and sleep deprivation is a killer, but I would suggest choosing a method that you want to stick to and to try and stick with it, I think dogs puppies aren't able to hold their bladder or bowels until they are 19 weeks old so still a few weeks yet.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Hi, yes when he wakes I'm taking him out as I don't want him messing on his bed (which is what he was doing in the crate). I will admit that the consistency hasn't been there, but he hasn't been left on his own to get distressed for well over two weeks. I've been doing this bed time routine for 5 nights. Maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of it than it is. I guess that's what I'd like to hear. But everyone keeps telling me he should be settled by now and that I should just leave him to cry it out.

My trainer is very against that idea and says it will make his anxiety worse. I see most people just give in and let their pup sleep in their room - but to me that's not solving the problem. If he can only settle when he's near me, what's going to happen during the day, or when I'm on holiday for example.

Sleep deprivation is making me a weepy, anxious mess. I hate it. Puppy blues have been there since the first week. I can't enjoy him while I know he's not settled and I worry he'll always be like this. I just keep thinking he'd be better with another family who have an older dog to calm him down. I don't feel like I'm capable.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

What an awesome puppy you have, waking you up when he wants to toilet at only 12 weeks.  I expect when he doesn't need to toilet in the night he'll sleep through. Other people might be able to give you some tips so that he doesn't need to go in the night, or it may be that until he's a little older he'll need to. When my girl was a pup I taught her 'hurry up' as a toilet cue, to encourage her to toilet before we went to bed. I did what was recommended on here and set my alarm so that I woke her to toilet and gradually increased the time. I think maybe because you're tired it seems worse than it is, you should give yourself a pat on the back for having such a young pup who lets you know and wants to be let out to toilet.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

If he doesnt like the crate, then he isnt crate trained.

I would go back to square one, and rather than sleeping on the sofa, i would have him in his crate in your room. You can move him when he is older and more settled; it doesnt mean it has to be permanent, just until he can hold his bladder/bowels and is more settled in his environment.

Have a routine. Go to bed at a set time, set your alarm to pre-empt him and put him out to the toilet, then put him back until you get up (at a reasonable hour - you will just have to face the facts that lack of sleep for a couple of months is just what happens).

I think withholding water is cruel and a highly inappropriate way to toilet 'train' a puppy.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Yes I've been thinking that it's a good thing that he wakens me. BUT - when I'm beside him, he sleeps straight through. He's done that four times. So the bladder control is there. I think he stirs in the middle of the night, realises I'm not there, starts to bark, gets all alert and then realises he needs the toilet.

I think if he was settled and happy to sleep, he'd go straight through the night x


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Unfortunately we can't force puppies to stay asleep. I would definitely think about making sure he toilets before you go to bed, then setting your alarm so that you wake him and take him out, teaching him a toilet cue, rather than him waking up, looking for you and exercising himself into needing to go. It should help a bit with your sleep deprivation too, as you'll have set times and be developing and increasing a routine.

You could also spend some time crate training him, so that you can eventually settle him and cover the crate, even if you do start in your bedroom and gradually move it outside the bedroom, then downstairs once he's happy with it. The idea being that it's his place of calm where he feels safe and confident, even without you holding his paw. 

It does take time though, fortunately not as long as human babies.  I think you're almost there and doing really well with him on the whole. At least it sounds like it to me. I do agree with Nonnie though, it's best that he has water. Restricting access to water is unhealthy. 

The actual trainers and behaviour experts on petforums might have better advice of course. You could ask on the training and behaviour section too to make sure they see it. I'm just impressed that your 12 week old pup already asks consistently to go to the toilet.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Puppies can be hard work, some more than others but it's what you commit to when you have one. Once you get to know your puppy's character a little more, things will get a bit easier. You have a very intelligent little pup there and probably working with rather than against will have better results. 
What about letting him spend the night in your bedroom while he's still young and craving the comfort. That way you will both get some sleep. Once you've settled into a routine, move the bed toward the door gradually, onto the landing etc.

When Heidi was a pup I was adamant she slept downstairs. I had no problems with my previous dogs. 
She didnt get me up in the night but I always came down to a mess. Perhaps she was asking and I didnt hear, possibly she was confused and didnt ask. 
OH pointed out that as she was going outside during the day, I could be encouraging her to "go" indoors. I took her crate to the bedroom, at 3am heard her whining v quietly. Took her out and she went to the toilet. She never asked during the night again and I never moved her out of our room. (Although that was the plan

I have a lovely bidable little terrier who loves to please. She wasn't confident as my other's as pups, but I wouldnt change her for the world and her confidence has grown with her.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. A few people told me to restrict the water after a certain time and it might help him to hold on over night. But if thats not right I won't do it.

I honestly don't mind letting him out for toilet. I've tried setting an alarm but the wee rascal keeps beating me to it and now wakes at 1.30am ish, instead of 3am which I had been trying to stick to.

My worry is that it's more about the separation anxiety than actual bladder control. I worry he'll be anxious all the time. 

He most definitely is a clever pup- taught him sit paw down rollover beg all within 10 mins. 

I hope with some patience ill have a great wee dog at the end of this. Being a first time pup mummy, you worry about everything, at least I do. 

I never thought it would take a pup so long to settle. I know three oher people with pups the same age and they are all sleeping from 11-6 am. That would he amazing. Just made me think I'm going wrong at every stage.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Don't restrict his water that's bad for a little puppy Put the crate in your bedroom then you will hear when he wakes up gradually after a few weeks move it outside the bedroom door leaving  the door to the bedroom open and then slowly move it downstairs The thing is he will be anxious just missing his mum and his siblings Some pups can hold the bladder longer than others puppy blues and not enough sleep is normal most times with a puppy but it does get better


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

One of my friends told me her puppy slept through the night too, until I saw her on facebook at 3am, then she had to admit it wasn't every night and she didn't count the times she didn't get up.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I think you are more likely to cause separation issues by leaving him alone at night for extended periods of time when he is clearly showing signs of distress.

Its better to work on him being happy in his own company for short periods during the day, gradually building up the time he is left, rather than chucking him in at the deep end and expecting him to be happy for 6 plus hours.

My pup is 4 months old. We go to bed at 10.30, then i pop him out at 2.30, then we are up at 6.30. He doesnt whinge, and he has never toileted in his crate overnight, despite having access to water, and making use of it 

All pups are different. Some get very, very distressed at being left to sleep alone at night, some will settle and sleep straight through. You just have to adapt your routine depending on which way they go.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

joey1981 said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first post here and basically I'm at my wits end. I have a 12 week old cockapoo and he's been with us for a month. He's adorable, clever, a quick learner and very loving.
> 
> BUT - he will not sleep straight through the night, crying out at least 2 times, sometimes more, and he could go for hours. I have tried literally everything. Crate training, crate door open, no crate, new bed, hot water bottle, ticking clock, my jumper, radio, soft lighting, ignoring him, soothing him - seriously everything! I haven't slept a full night in a month. Last feed is at 6pm, last drink about 7.30pm.
> 
> ...


Wow You have a 12 week old house trained puppy, I would be over the moon! What a good boy!


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

No he's definitely not toilet trained. At lease not during the day. We're having frequent accidents, mostly pee, despite having a very good start and no accidents for a week. But yes, the fact that he barks for toilet at night is good. I just worried I was teaching him to bark by always responding to him at night. 

And the point of me sleeping with I'm downstairs was not to let him get into a state of distress. Which he hasn't been in for weeks now. And I have been trying to build up the time gradually.

I'm obv doing his all wrong. Sorry everyone.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

joey1981 said:


> No he's definitely not toilet trained. At lease not during the day. We're having frequent accidents, mostly pee, despite having a very good start and no accidents for a week. But yes, the fact that he barks for toilet at night is good. I just worried I was teaching him to bark by always responding to him at night.
> 
> And the point of me sleeping with I'm downstairs was not to let him get into a state of distress. Which he hasn't been in for weeks now. And I have been trying to build up the time gradually.
> 
> I'm obv doing his all wrong. Sorry everyone.


You arent wrong as there is no wrong and right.

No one is born knowing all about dogs, and no amount of reading and research can truly prepare you for a puppy.

All we can do is offer you our personal views and opinions (sometimes bluntly) which will often contradict what the next person says, and all you can do is choose the path you think best.

Its not easy, and EVERYONE makes multiple mistakes with their first dog and end up spending vast amounts of time and tears rectifying them.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

joey1981 said:


> I'm obv doing his all wrong. Sorry everyone.


Why are you? There's only a couple of little tweaks that have been suggested that might help you out. One is trying to get ahead and pre-empt his waking/toileting times and the other is to spend some time crate training, if you'd prefer he slept in a crate.  Whether you do it from sleeping downstairs, or go to bed for an hour or two and get up, or take him upstairs is entirely up to you I think. I did the sleeping downstairs, like you have.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Aw thanks. I researched the life out of getting a puppy, read books galore and probably read too much if I'm honest. Absolutely nothing prepares you for the whirlwind of a puppy. I feel like a failure but I'm going to keep pushing on. All being well, a little maturity ( on both mine and the dogs part) will help. 

I really appreciate the honest feedback and saying I just need to tweak a few things has put it in perspective. 

Here's a pic of the little devil!


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

now thats a cute little thing


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

Aw what a little cutie!!

I am not massively experienced with dogs but I wouldn't have thought many sleep through solidly for 6+ hours at night. When Cooper was a puppy, we went to bed at around 10pm, up at 12/1am, again at 3/4am and then all of us up at 7ish, and he still had loads of accidents - just reinforce with treats _every single time_ he pees/poos outside and he will eventually get it.

It feels like it will never end doesn't it? It honestly will, just persevere and it will get easier


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Alfie is now 7.5 months old and he will sleep through from when we go to bed at 11 until I get up about 5 though sometimes he will wake me at 4:30 just because he wants a cuddle not because he needs the toilet.

When I get up at 5 I let him out and use the phrase "go toilet" and he immediately goes for a wee but he won't poo in the garden and will wait until 5:30 when I take him out for his morning walk before I head off to work.

We had plenty of accidents in the early stages and my wife got to the point where she thought she'd not be able to couple with the mess and lack of sleep but it does get easier


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

The thing is, I was doing regular toileting breaks at night but every time I put him back to bed he cried for hours. That's when I knew there was an issue and I got the trainer in. And then yes I kinda abandoned that regular toileting plan as I'd slept with him a few nights and realised he could hold it from at least 11-5.30 so bladder capacity wasn't the issue.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

it might just be you have a dog that likes to be round humans for comfort..... it might be just one of those things you will have to live with but you need to set a routine that will allow you to have a good nights sleep. 

Even if it means .... yes..... having him in your bedroom with you. 

The only problem this leads to is if you work in the day time and then instead of trying to tech him to settle at night you might have to concentrate on getting him to feel comfortable on his own in the daytime instead


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

OP - What a gorgeous lil pup you have


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

This is what we did Jamat. At least then we managed to catch him before he went on the floor, as we heard him get up and whine, so it was straight outside


jamat said:


> it might just be you have a dog that likes to be round humans for comfort..... it might be just one of those things you will have to live with but you need to set a routine that will allow you to have a good nights sleep.
> 
> *Even if it means .... yes..... having him in your bedroom with you. *
> 
> The only problem this leads to is if you work in the day time and then instead of trying to tech him to settle at night you might have to concentrate on getting him to feel comfortable on his own in the daytime instead


It took us a whole 2 nights before we let him in our bedroom!! We're too soft a touch  but all three of us now love our sleep all together in the bed...!


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## spots (Aug 10, 2014)

I remember the sleep deprivation - it's exhausting and makes you overthink things!

I was very firmly against having my dog in my bed ... Cute when they're puppies ... Not cute 25 kilos later when they start snoring, farting and stealing all the duvet. 

So I slept on the sofa with her. 
It took a couple of weeks all in all but I got way more sleep than being disturbed frequently. 
I let her naturally fall asleep on the sofa whilst I was watching TV in the evening then went off to my own bed without her noticing. She'd wake several hours later ... I'd take her out to toilet ... Then sit on the couch with her. There was no talking, no cuddles and no light. Basically no attention, but I was there. So she'd settle down and go back to sleep allowing me back to my own bed. 
After a few nights of this she got that I wasn't going to engage with her in the night but also knew I would come back when she barked. I'd let her out to pee, let her back on the sofa, then go straight up to bed as by now she's learnt the concept of settling. First few nights I might have to pop back down a few times just to point her back to the sofa and walk out again but she got it. 
We never had a single indoor toilet accident and to this day she'll sleep on the sofa and not make a peep of noise if I lie in until she needs the toilet.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

What are you feeding him on and how many times a day?


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Feeding him on royal Canin 3 times a day at 7.30am, 1.30pm and 6am.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Spots thanks. It may just take us a little while longer then of me sleeping with him x


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Sorry 6pm


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

You may not be feeding him enough and he could be waking because he's hungry.

We have a twelve week old Staffy pup. She is fed at 7 a.m., 12 noon, 4 p.m., and 8.30.p.m. She sleeps in a cage in my Son's bedroom and she goes through from 11 p.m. until 7. a.m.

She also has loads of playtime during the day and evening.

She has slept through the night from the age of nine weeks.

I would feed your pup four times a day, if you can, make his last feed later than you do at the moment and don't remove his water.

I understand you don't want him in your bedroom, but you can start him off there and gradually move his cage onto the landing and then downstairs as he grows.


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## CuteRotts (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh puppies are such hard work and nothing really prepares you for it. Even when you've been there before, you forget all the bad bits!

I think you've had lots of tremendous advice already, but thought i'd let you know how we handled our latest pup - we've had a few though, and they really were all treated differently depending on their personalities, but our latest was the trickiest. Edith really would not settle at night so we ended up with her on a couple of pillows, next to the bed, on my side so I could reach her if she got distressed. Yes she had a few piddles in the bedroom, but that's why I own a vax  My worry was that she would never sleep downstairs, I couldn't have been more wrong. At about 5 months we decided she should be downstairs, so one night we left her there. Never heard a peep. As far as separation, she's absolutely fine when we're out (I know, I put a camera up!), but when we're in the house she needs to be with us. Like a snorting chunky shadow!!

They're all trying, but they're all worth it in the end. When people tell you they should be doing certain thing by a certain age, ignore them. It's garbage!! They are all completely different and it has nothing to do with how you do it, it's just their personalities. And don't be too hard on yourself. we've all been through it and we're all here for you.


Em x


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Never listen to what your puppy should be doing by a certain age! My friend and I have pups from the same litter and they are completely different.

They are now 14 weeks old and from day 1 in their new houses, they have done everything differently.

Katie (my friends pup) loves her own company, sleeps through the night, downstairs by herself, not a peep.

Phoebe (my pup) has really bad separation anxiety, howled all night long, in our bedroom for almost 3 full weeks.

Phoebe is our first dog so I'm certainly no expert but I think the problems you're having is because you're trying to deal with establishing a sleeping pattern AND the separation anxiety all at once.

It might be an idea to bring your puppy into your room to establish a sleep pattern first.. at least until you have made some progress with the separation anxiety.

It took me 3 weeks of toileting every hour throughout the night, and no sleep whatsoever before I realised, Phoebe couldn't see me from her crate. I slept at the wrong end of the bed for a few nights so she could see my head, then I lay the right way round but hung my foot out the end of the bed. In less than a week she was sleeping all night and I was having to set an alarm to lift her and take her out to the toilet in the morning.

Now I am working on the bigger problem of her separation anxiety and will eventually try to move her crate out of our bedroom and downstairs. From what I have read, there's no quick fix for separation anxiety and its a long, slow process which can take months. I couldn't go without my sleep for that long lol.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

As your trainer has already mentioned separation anxiety and I suspect this (and not bladder control) is the root of the problem, I would primarily concentrate on working on his confidence and his ability to be alone during the daytime. To this end whilst working on this, I would be looking at having pup boxed/bedded/crated in the bedroom* for your benefit as much as his *so that everyone can get some sleep. New puppy blues can make us very stressed even when we are getting enough sleep! In time the bed can be moved.

Has your trainer given you a clear plan to reduce separation anxiety gradually? Some puppies are more anxious than others. Some puppies are independent from day one, others like us to be around. Some love lots of cuddles others can take it or leave it. As the above poster has said, even puppies from the same litter can be different. Your puppy may need to grow in confidence so he becomes less reliant on you.

As for toilet training at night ....well, I've never got up for any of my puppies I'm afraid. I don't crate but when I have a pup they are in a 'play pen' area and I allow pads/toilet area at night until they are ready to go through the night for themselves. If they need to they get up, wee and go back to bed. When they are ready the pads go.

J


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