# Straw / Hay for rats?!?



## Wilted0Rose

right, im getting confused now, i have been told that using hay/ straw is ok if i freeze it for 48 hours to make sure all the bugs are dead right?!??!?! but now im being told its not ok by some one else :S:S im so confused and i am so limited to what i can use because of my partners asthma. so we have been sitting for about an hour shredding paper and kitchen towel for bedding.... but i still think the hay is easier and more resourceful :S

Can anyone let me know?


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## Wilted0Rose

oh yeah i only use it for my bigger ratties not new borns and i dont put them on it until they are at least 2 weeks weeks old


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## Akai-Chan

I wouldn't use it... it's very dusty and has the same problems as wood shavings in that it can contribute to respiratory infections. Shredded newspaper is the way to go. I can shred newspapaer for all 17 of my rats in about 10 minutes.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## momentofmadness

I ave used hay and straw fro neds for years.. no bugs just dust.. You can get dust extracted you will want hay.. Hay is dried out grass.. Straw is what is left the stem from wheat/ corn/ barley.. Barley straw if eaten is good for weight gain.. 

Straw is harder to digest than hay.... 
I don't know if that will help you....
They will chomp on the hay aswell as make beds... But its not bad for them...


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## Akai-Chan

momentofmadness said:


> I ave used hay and straw fro neds for years.. no bugs just dust.. You can get dust extracted you will want hay.. Hay is dried out grass.. Straw is what is left the stem from wheat/ corn/ barley.. Barley straw if eaten is good for weight gain..
> 
> Straw is harder to digest than hay....
> I don't know if that will help you....
> They will chomp on the hay aswell as make beds... But its not bad for them...


Even supposedly dust extracted hay is still dusty, as are dust extracted wood shavings. It can harbour bugs but freezing I think only slows down their production, doesn;t kill them all off.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Wilted0Rose

momentofmadness said:


> I ave used hay and straw fro neds for years.. no bugs just dust.. You can get dust extracted you will want hay.. Hay is dried out grass.. Straw is what is left the stem from wheat/ corn/ barley.. Barley straw if eaten is good for weight gain..
> 
> Straw is harder to digest than hay....
> I don't know if that will help you....
> They will chomp on the hay aswell as make beds... But its not bad for them...


yeah its hay that i use but some people call it straw dont they?, it is dust extracted and my one rat doesnt sniffle if i use it or paper, but she does sniffle if i use other stuff.

just a quick note, i have only recently started using hay because its cheaper and more sufficient, but if it is a huge no no then i guess i can use paper.


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## Wilted0Rose

Akai-Chan said:


> Even supposedly dust extracted hay is still dusty, as are dust extracted wood shavings. It can harbour bugs but freezing I think only slows down their production, doesn;t kill them all off.
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


oh i spray everything down with that flea and mite spray as well. and for the papper how do i get rid of the dust after tearing it up?


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## Akai-Chan

Wilted0Rose said:


> oh i spray everything down with that flea and mite spray as well. and for the papper how do i get rid of the dust after tearing it up?


Do you get dust after tearing it up? If you just rip up long strips of newspaper there should be no dust and it;s the cheapest bedding to use cos you can get stacks of the stuff off freecycle! You shouldn;t need to spray everything down with flea and mite spray before you use it 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## momentofmadness

Wilted0Rose said:


> yeah its hay that i use but some people call it straw dont they?, it is dust extracted and my one rat doesnt sniffle if i use it or paper, but she does sniffle if i use other stuff.
> 
> just a quick note, i have only recently started using hay because its cheaper and more sufficient, but if it is a huge no no then i guess i can use paper.


I know this isn't what you want to hear.. But Rats have been living in hay and straw for years.. I can tell you I have seen some very large healthy looking rats..... Also for coat shine etc there are some very good horse feedds out there that they like and live on quite happily..


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## Wilted0Rose

Akai-Chan said:


> Do you get dust after tearing it up? If you just rip up long strips of newspaper there should be no dust and it;s the cheapest bedding to use cos you can get stacks of the stuff off freecycle! You shouldn;t need to spray everything down with flea and mite spray before you use it
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


true, hmmm freecycle you say? i might give it a try.

it wasnt newspaper i was tearing up it was kitchen towel and because i have 6 cages to full up i had to tear loads lol


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## Wilted0Rose

momentofmadness said:


> I know this isn't what you want to hear.. But Rats have been living in hay and straw for years.. I can tell you I have seen some very large healthy looking rats..... Also for coat shine etc there are some very good horse feedds out there that they like and live on quite happily..


yeah, sometimes with all these things it makes me think... well what did rats do in the wild because they dont have people catering to their every need there and they live longer than domesticated rats :S but i also see akai chans point, rather avoid problems than chance them, im so confused!!!! and indecisive its annoying lol


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## Akai-Chan

momentofmadness said:


> I know this isn't what you want to hear.. But Rats have been living in hay and straw for years.. I can tell you I have seen some very large healthy looking rats..... Also for coat shine etc there are some very good horse feedds out there that they like and live on quite happily..


And rats have been living on wood shavings for years, but that doesn;t necessarily mean it is good for them. It is still dusty and if they have to sleep in it, they will breathe dust in and it will affect their lungs. Sooner or later it'll do more harm than good. What's the point when you can get a cheaper, longer lasting alternative that will do them no harm atall?

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## momentofmadness

Akai-Chan said:


> And rats have been living on wood shavings for years, but that doesn;t necessarily mean it is good for them. It is still dusty and if they have to sleep in it, they will breathe dust in and it will affect their lungs. Sooner or later it'll do more harm than good. What's the point when you can get a cheaper, longer lasting alternative that will do them no harm atall?
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


Merely pointing out how rats have lived.... I had the same rat sleep in my stable for years... Untill my horse rolled on it in her sleep... RIP little rat.. It ate well and had the best shaving and haylage to eat.. And the best horses feed.. for condition and bloom...


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## MerlinsMum

I have used hay for rats in the past, when I kept them in an outdoor rattery. It has the advantage of keeping them very warm BUT is highly unpleasant if it becomes urine-soiled and damp. They will eat it, and that presents no problem. The worst issue is that it's a common source of rat lice, and poor quality hay will harbour mould spores which are a health risk to both rats & humans.

Straw is not really suitable at all, it isn't as warm as hay and is stiffer and spikier. If you're not sure about the difference between hay & straw, then best to avoid both.


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## spoiled_rat

Wilted0Rose said:


> and they live longer than domesticated rats


The average lifespan of wild rats in the uk is 6-8 months, which is ALOT less than domesticated rats.


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## Akai-Chan

Wilted0Rose said:


> yeah, sometimes with all these things it makes me think... well what did rats do in the wild because they dont have people catering to their every need there and they live longer than domesticated rats :S but i also see akai chans point, rather avoid problems than chance them, im so confused!!!! and indecisive its annoying lol


If you are breeding rats, you'll want to be breeding from rats that are healthy and strong, with good lungs and no breathing difficulty. Not ones that have been breathing in dust and are more at risk of respiratory infections. Better to err on the side of caution, especially if you'll be breeding.

It doesn't take too long to shred newspaper. Just cut out the kitchen roll completely, newspaper is plenty warm for them. I can shred enough paper for 5 cages in about 10 minutes at most, and that lasts all week. You don't need loads of it and it;s fun for them to make their own nest 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Akai-Chan

momentofmadness said:


> Merely pointing out how rats have lived.... I had the same rat sleep in my stable for years... Untill my horse rolled on it in her sleep... RIP little rat.. It ate well and had the best shaving and haylage to eat.. And the best horses feed.. for condition and bloom...


True, but wild rats are a lot different to domesticated rats. Not really a good comparison.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## lozza84

_now girls dont cross akai chan she knows it ALL _


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## momentofmadness

lozza84 said:


> _now girls dont cross akai chan she knows it ALL _


mmm I am not crossing anyone.. As previously stated.. I know what I know about hay and straw.. But I have never said I am the only right person here.


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## lozza84

momentofmadness said:


> mmm I am not crossing anyone.. As previously stated.. I know what I know about hay and straw.. But I have never said I am the only right person here.


_i agree with you :smile5:_


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## Akai-Chan




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## Wilted0Rose

MerlinsMum said:


> I have used hay for rats in the past, when I kept them in an outdoor rattery. It has the advantage of keeping them very warm BUT is highly unpleasant if it becomes urine-soiled and damp. They will eat it, and that presents no problem. The worst issue is that it's a common source of rat lice, and poor quality hay will harbour mould spores which are a health risk to both rats & humans.
> 
> Straw is not really suitable at all, it isn't as warm as hay and is stiffer and spikier. If you're not sure about the difference between hay & straw, then best to avoid both.


heehee i know the difference, here straw is the goldie hardish stuff and hay is darkish and softer, but in africa its a different way round :s my ratties are kept in the garage due to the size of their cage which is why i decided to use hay but since akai says newspaper is warm aswell i guess i can use that cause i only want to do good. which is why i asked XD better to be safe than sorry.

and i get that domesticated rats are very different from wild rats as they have been adapted and bred a certain way. but i never thought they would have lived that short of a life, in africa they can live up to 7 years sometimes more :S but i guess thats down to weathering and stuff


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## momentofmadness

Oh and just for any further info..lol I did speand many years helping with crops of hay and all the other cereals.. that produce straw....


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## Wilted0Rose

i guess ill start with paper lols and when i do my veterinarian course im sure ill learn which is best


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## MerlinsMum

Wilted0Rose said:


> i guess ill start with paper lols and when i do my veterinarian course im sure ill learn which is best


You'd be surprised how little is taught on care of small animals! That's more for an Animal Management diploma course at 6th form college.


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## Wilted0Rose

MerlinsMum said:


> You'd be surprised how little is taught on care of small animals! That's more for an Animal Management diploma course at 6th form college.


City & Guilds National Certificate in Animal Care, thats the course i will be doing at chichester college my goal after many years will be to specialise in small animals as there arent many people that do as you have also said


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## LisaLQ

You'll find yourself saying "that's not right" because some animal care courses aren't very up to date with...erm...animal care!

Hay is fine for rat bedding, I wouldn't use it as a cage substrate though, but it makes nice nests. Like someone said though it can be a source of pests depending on how it's been stored (eg if wild rats are in regular contact with it). I dont use it as I get really bad hayfever - plus I think kitchen paper makes softer and more hygenic nesting.

Shavings are more controversial, I wouldn't use pet shop shavings if my life depended on it (even those which state they are dust extracted), and definitely not sawdust. The only shavings I'd recommend are Bedmax, and that'd be for adults only. They're kiln dried and reduced phenols (the chemicals that allegedly cause respiratory problems). However I say adults only because even though Bedmax is huge non-dusty flakes on a whole, I had one bad batch which was too dusty for recently opened eyes. I much prefer cardboard bedding for babies (not shredded normal paper though as this is too sharp for their skin and often sticks to newborns IME - if you want to use shredded paper try kitchen paper in their igloo/nest).

I did try Bedmax for a few months with my adults, and had no increase in respiratory issues, and I know several breeders who use similar large flaked shavings (and hay for nests) and have never had problems. Some of the most respected and knowledgable breeders do.

However, IMO, cardboard is better for babies and as I dont have the room to store several different types of bedding, I stick with them for all my rats. My rats sulk since I changed back though - they loved digging in Bedmax, cardboard just isn't the same (and it's not as good for keeping the smell down either - sigh).


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## Wilted0Rose

heyas guys, i have just looked at my ratties and i must say that the paper bedding or as lisaq says * substrate* is not for me, i piled loads for my rats but they have dragged all of it up into their homes. and when they poop or wee on in it goes horrible. so what im going to do is a mixture of neswpapewr and hay because its not that warm either. but thats for you advices if you have any other alternatives ill be glad to listen.

and lisa i cant use any types of wqood shavings due the shauns asthma and i hate it lols


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## LisaLQ

Have you tried hemp (as a substrate not nesting material)? Aubiose is very good for keeping smells at bay, although it is very light so gets kicked out of the cage easily (and is a pain to hoover up if you have carpet). My last two batches were very dusty though, but I hear Hemcore is better?

Kitchen roll is by far the best nesting material for in igloos etc in my experience. I've used regular paper (and still do for some of the adults) but it is too sharp for babies and sticks to newborns, shredded newspaper stinks within minutes (LOL), but kitchen roll lasts a few days.

Shredded fleece might be an option, although it'd work out expensive if you have lots of rats.

Sadly there is no such thing as a perfect substrate. You just have to weigh up the pros and cons and decide which suits you and your rats. I stick with cardboard because it's cheap, easy enough for me to get hold of, safe for the rats and doesn't get kicked out of the cages. Downside being that cages need cleaning more often as it doesn't keep the smell at bay. Hemp is great for the rats, but naff for my hoover. Shavings are brilliant for smell, but only heat treated ones are "safe" and these are sometimes hard to get hold of and not always consistent in quality. Shredded newspaper for me is probably one of the worst - stinks within a day, would mean chaning my cages at least 2-3 times a week, if not more often. Megazorb caused myco flare ups in my rescues - far too dusty. 100% paper cat litter great but too expensive to use in anything other than litter trays (eg to fill cage bottoms would cost the earth).

I keep coming back to cardboard. £6 a bale, cant get any better than that. Just a shame it doesn't absorb the smell as well as shavings/hemp.


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## KathyM

Decent quality hay is not going to cause respiratory problems in healthy rats. I think the rat police like to build up things into fanatical proportions in mass hysteria, when in real life nothing is without risk. I got a bag of shredded paper from the vets for the rats and couldn't use it because it was that dusty just from being shredded - I don't go round criticising people for using it. Newspaper is dusty when torn, it's made from tiny fibres. Paper based cat litter blinded some of a rescue litter here, it was that dusty. Nothing is perfect, so try some out and decide for yourself. Hay was recommended to me for the mice, but for rats I used cardboard bedding and kitchen roll.


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## simplysardonic

I use Ecobed, a big bale lasts me a good 3 months or so, for bedding I use kitchen roll & boxes of tissues that they can do whatever they want with (they build some quite impressive art installations when they hang tissues all over their hammocks). They also have cotton sports socks & cut up fleece to play around with


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## Wilted0Rose

LisaLQ said:


> Have you tried hemp (as a substrate not nesting material)? Aubiose is very good for keeping smells at bay, although it is very light so gets kicked out of the cage easily (and is a pain to hoover up if you have carpet). My last two batches were very dusty though, but I hear Hemcore is better?
> 
> Kitchen roll is by far the best nesting material for in igloos etc in my experience. I've used regular paper (and still do for some of the adults) but it is too sharp for babies and sticks to newborns, shredded newspaper stinks within minutes (LOL), but kitchen roll lasts a few days.
> 
> Shredded fleece might be an option, although it'd work out expensive if you have lots of rats.
> 
> Sadly there is no such thing as a perfect substrate. You just have to weigh up the pros and cons and decide which suits you and your rats. I stick with cardboard because it's cheap, easy enough for me to get hold of, safe for the rats and doesn't get kicked out of the cages. Downside being that cages need cleaning more often as it doesn't keep the smell at bay. Hemp is great for the rats, but naff for my hoover. Shavings are brilliant for smell, but only heat treated ones are "safe" and these are sometimes hard to get hold of and not always consistent in quality. Shredded newspaper for me is probably one of the worst - stinks within a day, would mean chaning my cages at least 2-3 times a week, if not more often. Megazorb caused myco flare ups in my rescues - far too dusty. 100% paper cat litter great but too expensive to use in anything other than litter trays (eg to fill cage bottoms would cost the earth).
> 
> I keep coming back to cardboard. £6 a bale, cant get any better than that. Just a shame it doesn't absorb the smell as well as shavings/hemp.


Yeah i have made up my mind that shredded paper is way better than anything i have tried so far so as for the hay well shauns dad can use it fo his bunny XD


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## fluffosaur

Have you tried carefresh? It's cardboard/paper based and supposed to be one of the best types of bedding to use. I personally don't shred the newspaper or kitchen towels for my rats... I put it in their cage and let them do all the hard work!


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## blade100

this is what i use for my rats
ECOBED CARDBOARD BEDDING (22 KG)

and then bio-catlet litter in there corner trays.

i also put a covering of newspaper at the bottom of the tray before hand and i also shred newspaper up in there bed/house.

i would never ever use straw/hay i would be worried incase it pierced there eyes and plus its too dusty.

there are also other suitable bedding on here but not shavings though unless bedmax.
HORSE BEDDING - SAVE ONLINE AT GJW TITMUSS

amy


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## SEVEN_PETS

I use Finacard as substrate, and Back to Nature as litter, and Safebed as bedding.


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## Wilted0Rose

blade100 said:


> this is what i use for my rats
> ECOBED CARDBOARD BEDDING (22 KG)
> 
> and then bio-catlet litter in there corner trays.
> 
> i also put a covering of newspaper at the bottom of the tray before hand and i also shred newspaper up in there bed/house.
> 
> i would never ever use straw/hay i would be worried incase it pierced there eyes and plus its too dusty.
> 
> there are also other suitable bedding on here but not shavings though unless bedmax.
> HORSE BEDDING - SAVE ONLINE AT GJW TITMUSS
> 
> amy


thankyou soo much i was wondering how i was going to afford this stuff XD


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## clarebear89

spoiled_rat said:


> The average lifespan of wild rats in the uk is 6-8 months, which is ALOT less than domesticated rats.


yep it is a lot less than domesticated rats but that is only because a domesticated rat doesn't (or at least shouldnt) have any predators living in its cage. wild and domesticated rats are surprisingly similar domesticated rats were bred by a rat catcher in 18th century london who bred fancy rats from comoon brown rats to bore you with a bit of history. rats can eat pretty much anything so eating it isnt a worry, straw isnt very good for any small animals because its hollow and allows for hiding places and breeding grounds for bugs and mites (also freesing it wont do anything apart from make it cold lol), hay on the other hand is perfectly safe, if your looking for something that isnt dusty well your best off with paper and some shredded jaycloth. buy yourself a shredder it saves hours in ripping it did for us anyway. hope this helps


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## champagneannie

why bother shredding it for them when they can have a play doing it themselves? I get a tissue box, take out half and just bung it in the cage. they sleep in it, and shred the tissue for bedding. end of the week, take the shredded tissue out, and they start again with the other half.

win win!


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## Wilted0Rose

yeah i did a mixture of some shredded and some biggish pieces for them, XD


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