# This i why you should never buy from a petshop....



## crofty (May 2, 2008)

They are supplied by breeders that just don't care.... like the one removed that had 68 buns and 110 guinea pigs from yesturday 

This is how they were living (pics taken by Duchess)


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

i dont think that you should tar all petshop breeders with the same brush! i work in a pet shop and my manager always visits the places we get our animals from! if she does not like the look of the place then she wont purchase and if its really unfair to the animals she will report them! we never buy from BIG breeders and always collect the animals so we can keep a check on the premices! usually people are more than happy to be checked out and if they are not then it is usually dodgy! 
but i will agree that the conditions od those hutches are descusting!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> i dont think that you should tar all petshop breeders with the same brush! i work in a pet shop and my manager always visits the places we get our animals from! if she does not like the look of the place then she wont purchase and if its really unfair to the animals she will report them! we never buy from BIG breeders and always collect the animals so we can keep a check on the premices! usually people are more than happy to be checked out and if they are not then it is usually dodgy!
> but i will agree that the conditions od those hutches are descusting!


No animals should be sold in petshops, ALL breeders that sell to petshops do not care about their animals because they and you do not know where they are going! You sell tiny hutches, anyone can walk in off the street and pay £25 for a bunny they could shut it in one of these hutches and you would not have a clue, the breeder looked like a nice lady, well groomed/dressed! Its people like these rescues that have helped here that have to clean up petshops mess! One of the rescues that has helped has a waiting list of 100 bunnies to go in!!!

These hutches are standard 3ft petshop hutches 

Disgraceful.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

lil_muppet said:


> i dont think that you should tar all petshop breeders with the same brush! i work in a pet shop and my manager always visits the places we get our animals from! if she does not like the look of the place then she wont purchase and if its really unfair to the animals she will report them! we never buy from BIG breeders and always collect the animals so we can keep a check on the premices! usually people are more than happy to be checked out and if they are not then it is usually dodgy!
> but i will agree that the conditions od those hutches are descusting!


I do think ALL pet shops should be put into this. Yes ok not all are in these conditions but pet shop breeders breed for quantity not quality. One of my rabbits was taken from a small scale breeder, she was only a year old herself and had already been bred from twice. She herself was bred by this lady and has a lifetime of problems with her teeth due to the careless breeding. This rabbit was also going to be put to sleep by the breeder if I hadn't taken her the day I did and the reason for the pts was she was agressive. That doe is now 5 years old and is the most gentle creature I've met, the reason she's no longer agressive? She was spayed. She also has lots of teeth problems and has to have her teeth filed once a month as well as having her front teeth removed. She had these problems before I took her and was still being used for breeding, so imagine how her babies are health wise if any of them even found caring homes that would take care of them through the teeth problems. Out of the two litters she had I wonder how many are even still alive.

Any breeder that will sell to a pet shop cares only about money and not the welfare of the animals! A decent breeder will find homes for the animals themselves making sure each baby goes to the right home, a pet shop gives little to no advice to anyone wanting to buy a rabbit. Its all about money for the pet shops and the breeders that supply pet shops.


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

even if the people go to breeders does that still rule out people putting them into tiny cages? how many breeders go to the buyers house and check them out? i have bought animals from breeders and have never been checked! people will always buy from petshops as we can still offer advise to people and do our best to ensure the animal has a happy and healthy long life in the care of the original buyer! this is all that anyone can do.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> even if the people go to breeders does that still rule out people putting them into tiny cages? how many breeders go to the buyers house and check them out? i have bought animals from breeders and have never been checked! people will always buy from petshops as we can still offer advise to people and do our best to ensure the animal has a happy and healthy long life in the care of the original buyer! this is all that anyone can do.


Actually some breeders do homecheck. Rescues homecheck which is what everyone should do, why do you think petshops are not allowed to sell dogs now????  I personally would not buy from a breeder or petshop, there are 33,000 bunnies plus in rescues right now and more on the waiting list why on earth would you want to let anyone come into a shop and buy one?

I'd love to know what information you give them 

The petshop this lady bred for also claimed to check out all their breeders and are very well known. Its all about money, petshops and petshop breeders have no idea where their 'stock' is going.

I went to pampurred pets the other day to ask what happens when they dont sell a bunny, they said that bunny goes back to the breeder to be bred from  obviously dont care what genetic history is, thats why so many buns have health problems.


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

crofty said:


> I'd love to know what information you give them


i have a distinction and a distinction * in animal care and also own rabbits so i do know how to keep a rabbit and can offer sound advise!

you said some breeders check their potencial homes? SOME being the main word here as this means that not all breeders are checking home which should put them in the same position as petshops! there is no right or wrong in this argument and only oppinion.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> i have a distinction and a distinction * in animal care and also own rabbits so i do know how to keep a rabbit and can offer sound advise!
> 
> you said some breeders check their potencial homes? SOME being the main word here as this means that not all breeders are checking home which should put them in the same position as petshops! there is no right or wrong in this argument and only oppinion.


Oh great a qualification in animal welfare and you sell 3ft hutches to rabbit owners 

I dont agree with breeders not home checking, there are responsible breeders and not so responsible breeders i wich they wouldnt breed at all we already have too many rabbits!

As i have said, pet shops are not allowed to sell dogs so why are they selling rabbits? What petshop do you work for?

There is definetely a right answer here, petshops should not sell rabbits or any other animals and i will help campaign to eventually stop it. Most bunnies in rescues are the result of people buying cute pet bunnies on impulse, stuffing them in a little hutch, hormones arrive and cute baby bunny is fed up of the tiny space and become aggressive.... so they dump it at a rescue to vaccinate, neuter and sort out any other medical problems... how much money do you think that costs?

This rescue is not a one case  its a regular occurance!


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

ok your now putting words into my mouth! i never said i sell 3ft cages with our rabbits as the minimum size hutch we sell is a double story hutch! and i dont work for a big petshop bussiness so there is no point me telling you who i work for! do you disagree with all animals being sold in petshops including fish and reptiles? or just rabbits?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> ok your now putting words into my mouth! i never said i sell 3ft cages with our rabbits as the minimum size hutch we sell is a double story hutch! and i dont work for a big petshop bussiness so there is no point me telling you who i work for! do you disagree with all animals being sold in petshops including fish and reptiles? or just rabbits?


Yes i disagree with them all being sold in petshops, i think its awful anyone can walk in and buy them then dump them at a rescue when they dont match the curtains or get bored.

How big are you're two storey hutches? Considering RSPCA recommends min 6ftx2ft hutch for a pair of buns. Most two storey hutches ive seen in petshops are 3/4ft max and certainly are not 2ft in depth and some of that space is taken up with the ladder. Buns should be able to take three hops from one end to the other and be able to stretch out.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

crofty said:


> As i have said, pet shops are not allowed to sell dogs so why are they selling rabbits?


my local pet shop sells puppies and kittens. All animals can be sold in pet shops, even meerkats I heard.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> my local pet shop sells puppies and kittens. All animals can be sold in pet shops, even meerkats I heard.


my pet shop sells all the above meerkats included! it really is the pits!

and i agree with you Crofty about petshops selling rabbits and breeders breeding for them....i dont agree with it just like i dont agree with any animal being bred/sold soley for profit.


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

You really cannot say all pet shops are like this. I also work in a pet shop and the owner of the shop only gets our animals from people she knows and trusts. She picks all of the animals up herself aswell so she knows that they are well looked after. All of our animals are given to new owners with a very detailed care sheet and lots of advise is given. I have also got a distinction* in animal care so do know what i'm talking about!

As for people just coming off the street to buy an animal. We can tell weather they have really thought about it or not and if we don't think they have we won't sell them an animal. An example of this is someone came into the shop for a goldfish as theirs had died and wanted to take a hamster, we told them to come back when they had really thought about it (they didn't).

In our pet shop we do sell 3ft hutches but not for rabbits! These are mainly sold to people for guinea pigs who also have a large run or have been bought to put as shelter in a run.

Another thing we do is not have rabbits and guinea pigs during the winter, we only have them from april - august as the boss doesn't like the idea of them going from being in the warm shop to being kept outside.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I agree also with crofty...animlas should not be sold to make profit and all homes should be home checked before. The persistent and growing number of animals being deposited to rescues or rescued from appalling circumstances is concerning to say the least and is something that really needs to be addressed with satisfactory care from the people who lead this country, but it is simply ignored.

HOWEVER.....I also agree with lil_muppet in that they actually used an example of how pet shops should select their stock...carefully...and reporting unsatisfactory conditions. That permits me to restore a little faith in petshops. Also...out of all the nearly 30 animals I have owned this las couple of years....only one has actually bought her to the house. Breeders and owners often have no interest in the homes. My RSPCA actually allows a photo of the cage as satisfactory evidence of a suitable home for a small animal. Now I am still not interested in going to a petshop for my pets....though I confess I did buy three mice from one and rescued a mite ridden one froom another. However....whereas I recognise the contempt a lot of animal lovers have for these shops...lil-muppet merely said their pet shop do it differently and they is obviously well qualified/researched in animal care and would trust their ( sorry l-m not sure if you are male or female and have made mistakes on here before so am not going to presume either ) advice.

NEVERTHELESS...3-4ft is not acceptable for any piggie/rabbit etc.

SORRY!!! For the essay.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

xhuskyloverx said:


> An example of this is someone came into the shop for a goldfish as theirs had died and wanted to take a hamster, we told them to come back when they had really thought about it (they didn't)


That is brilliant! Am impressed! xx


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Doesn't suprise me atall as sad as it sounds!

I got my new bunny today (kept it a secret ) but she's from a good breeder who shows. My friends been keeping an eye out for a blue Dutch for me in the rescue but no luck or the rabbits were already in pairs. 

Most of my guinea pigs probaly came from situations like this but I've rescued them from others and gave them the treatment the need etc.


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## jemma_79 (Nov 1, 2009)

SHOCKING and DISGUSTING! Makes me weep x


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## AmyCruick (Jul 20, 2009)

I do agree with crofty on this one I have to say.

I went to a country fair at the weekend, there were about 20 bunnies in a pen with no food and no shade. There was a tiny strip of shade created by a piece of cardboard that said 'do not pick up the rabbits' and they were climbing all over each other to get into the tiny strip of shade. Lots of small kids were cooing over the bunnies and I kept hearing 'can I have one' I said out loud that I was disgusted at the way there being kept, some of the bunnies were panting like mad and were obviously too hot. To be honest I think a lot of those poor little buns probably wouldn't even have made it through the day.

Did the breeders care? Not one little bit!! I even suspect that any rabbits who didn't sell as babies were probably killed when they became adults that wouldn't sell -these people really did not care!! They were also selling chickens, ducks, ferrets and guinea pigs. I'm going to write to the organisers of the show but what else can you do when these breeders just don't give a monkeys?!

It really upset me and I don't think people should be allowed to buy ANY animal without someone going to their house, checking the conditions and giving them throrough advice.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

what a hell  looks damp did you find any maggots i guess its not been so warm


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

I am also with Crofty on this one.

I don't think pet shops should sell animals at all


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

well i am sorry but i feel i have to say something here. I used to breed Syrian hamsters for my small local petshop (on a very small scale) and none of my hamsters are kept in poor conditions and the mothers and babies received the best of care. I did care what happend to the babies I bred the petshop had waiting lists before they where bred.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

I think there are more BYB than those that supply to petshops.. take a look at pre-loved for example.. 99% don't care who they sell to


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I dont care what anyone says, if you sell your animals to a petshop you do not know where they are going so how on earth can you say you care? 

No petshop sells satisfactory size accomodation for rabbits.

As for puppies in petshops its pretty rare down here and i think its disgusting, petshops encourage impulse buying and most do not give the correct information, none of your arguements on here have convinced me any differently.

Go speak to the rescues they are ones that know they are talking about and the ones clearing up back street breeders and petshops mess!

Selling animals for profit will always compromise their welfare, because all petshops care about is lining their pockets. Like i said this petshop claimed to only buy from responsible breeders, seeing what i saw on monday is all the proof i need and only one example of many  One of the pregnant does we rescued was 5 years old, she'd been sat in that dirty hutch never allowed out for 5 years being bred from over and over again.... *I will do everything i can to help ban petshops selling livestock.*


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

emzybabe said:


> what a hell  looks damp did you find any maggots i guess its not been so warm


Yes we did find maggots in the bedding  and the remains of a guinea pig in the garden.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

xhuskyloverx said:


> You really cannot say all pet shops are like this. I also work in a pet shop and the owner of the shop only gets our animals from people she knows and trusts. She picks all of the animals up herself aswell so she knows that they are well looked after. All of our animals are given to new owners with a very detailed care sheet and lots of advise is given. I have also got a distinction* in animal care so do know what i'm talking about!
> 
> As for people just coming off the street to buy an animal. We can tell weather they have really thought about it or not and if we don't think they have we won't sell them an animal. An example of this is someone came into the shop for a goldfish as theirs had died and wanted to take a hamster, we told them to come back when they had really thought about it (they didn't).
> 
> ...


Ok how big are your hutches and runs for rabbits? You think a 3 foot hutch is ok for guinea pigs?


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

crofty said:


> Ok how big are your hutches and runs for rabbits? You think a 3 foot hutch is ok for guinea pigs?


No I don't think that a 3ft hutch is big enough for guinea pigs and we do discourage people from buying them, but if they do they ALWAYS go away with a large run as well (so that they are only in there at night). We've only sold 1 of these this summer.

The smallest hutch we sell for dwarf rabbits (we only sell netherland dwarfs) is 4ft long, 2ft deep and 2ft high. But we mainly sell the double storey ones which are either 4/5ft long with each level being 2ft high and 2ft deep.

You can't say that all pet shops don't care about the animals they sell as alot do. Most people who buy their animals from us continue to come back to buy food and supplies so we keep in regular contact with them. Most bring in photos for us to see (we have a photo wall in our office full of our animals and customers pets!)

Obviously not all pet shops do care as much as we do which is a shame and you get some that do sell products which arn't suitable. Maybe banning all pet shops from selling livestock isn't the way to go but stricter licensing? Unannounced inspections of shops and the suppliers of the animals?


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

xhuskyloverx said:


> Maybe banning all pet shops from selling livestock isn't the way to go but stricter licensing? Unannounced inspections of shops and the suppliers of the animals?


I don't think it will happen. Ever. You stop selling in pet shops where do people go? to backyard beederds who will have a bigger market, encouraging more of them and producing more supply for the demand, resulting in more of what Crofty came across.. you stop the BYBers,where will people get buns from?? Rescues? the supply will run out eventually, then what?

Stopping petshops selling will never happen and think they can be monitered much easier than the BYBers


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> I don't think it will happen. Ever. You stop selling in pet shops where do people go? to backyard beederds who will have a bigger market, encouraging more of them and producing more supply for the demand, resulting in more of what Crofty came across.. you stop the BYBers,where will people get buns from?? Rescues? the supply will run out eventually, then what?
> 
> Stopping petshops selling will never happen and think they can be monitered much easier than the BYBers


Sorry if i sound stoopid lol...but what does BYB mean? xx


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

niki87 said:


> Sorry if i sound stoopid lol...but what does BYB mean? xx


sorry, being lazy!! backyard breeders


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> sorry, being lazy!! backyard breeders


Oh yeah...that makes sense! Thanks! xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I personally think it all depends on the pet shops.. My local petshop is great.. always full of advice he doesn't have loads of pets in a quite often if you go in for a small animal you may have to wait.. Which also gives you time to decide if its really what you want...

I have hamsters and rats and dogs and fish...

I wonder how many people get these pets from rescues and then forget about them.. dont let them out dont play with them.. 

Mine are from the petshop and they are out every day....

I dont mind buying from our petshop.. he knows Im in there everyweek for food and bedding for my pets and he regularly asks me how they are doing and suggests new things for me to try.... 

I used to have rabbits.. they were let loose in the garden all day and popped into there hutches at night.. Cause I personally think its tight to keep any animal in an enclosed space 24/7... 

And people do keep pets like this no matter where they get them from and some time no matter how much educating you give em...


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I dont see why breeding to supply a small petshop is bad and only breeding when that petshop has enough homes lined up. I do care about my animals yeah ok I dont kn ow who will buy them but the petshop will so surely its upto them to place them into suitable homes, and as for making profit I didn't I spend alot on my animals and would never ever breed an animal for that reason. I have no problem with petshops selling animals as long as the animals are cared for correctly, In an ideal world we would love to vet everybody but it just wont happen. even the most careful of people can make mistakes


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

xhuskyloverx said:


> No I don't think that a 3ft hutch is big enough for guinea pigs and we do discourage people from buying them, but if they do they ALWAYS go away with a large run as well (so that they are only in there at night). We've only sold 1 of these this summer.
> 
> The smallest hutch we sell for dwarf rabbits (we only sell netherland dwarfs) is 4ft long, 2ft deep and 2ft high. But we mainly sell the double storey ones which are either 4/5ft long with each level being 2ft high and 2ft deep.
> 
> ...


So you dont think a 3ft hutch is big enough for guinea pigs but you still sell them????? Dwarf rabbits are a medium size rabbit in a 4ft hutch? Thats a foot longer than the ones in the pics, far too small!!!!!! How big are you're 'big' runs because i have never seen a run bigger than 4ftx5ft in a petshop which a rabbit cannot 'run' in. So yes I can say petshops dont care because they still will sell a 3ft hutch for a guinea pig and a 4ft hutch for a rabbit to be shut up in  Those poor animals.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> I dont see why breeding to supply a small petshop is bad and only breeding when that petshop has enough homes lined up. I do care about my animals yeah ok I dont kn ow who will buy them but the petshop will so surely its upto them to place them into suitable homes, and as for making profit I didn't I spend alot on my animals and would never ever breed an animal for that reason. I have no problem with petshops selling animals as long as the animals are cared for correctly, In an ideal world we would love to vet everybody but it just wont happen. even the most careful of people can make mistakes


No you bring these animals into this world therefore its YOUR responsibility to makesure they have nice homes, that is what *responsible* breeding is all about. Why do you breed and sell to petshops if not to make money when there are already so many rescue animals deperate for homes?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> I personally think it all depends on the pet shops.. My local petshop is great.. always full of advice he doesn't have loads of pets in a quite often if you go in for a small animal you may have to wait.. Which also gives you time to decide if its really what you want...
> 
> I have hamsters and rats and dogs and fish...
> 
> ...


My rabbits are kept in a safe enclosed space of 14x8ft unless im in the garden, personally id rather that than they become fox food. Petshops give information just not the right information most of the time! Rescue animals that have had their future homes checked have a better chance of a nice life than ones that are sold to anybody that walks in a petshop and decides they want the cute bunny in the cage. Why do you think petshops only sell baby buns? Because it encourages people to buy them, its the profit they care about.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

crofty said:


> No you bring these animals into this world therefore its YOUR responsibility to makesure they have nice homes, that is what *responsible* breeding is all about. Why do you breed and sell to petshops if not to make money when there are already so many rescue animals deperate for homes?


I understand what your saying when I did breed I looked for healthy breeding stock and only bred very slender it got to a point as soon as the petshop got them they got homes. A rescue animal isnt for everyone especailly with hamsters only living 2 year plus. Like i say when any breeder breeds they need to find good homes but its so hard sometimes people arnt what they seem. I recently saw an add for a staffy girl who was rescued from a dogs home..... her current owners could no longer keep her so wanted to sell her on.... rather then return her. Rescues can get it wrong too.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...eds/562752-very-sad-sale-gorgeous-staffy.html

Theirs the add I saw. Poor girl


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> I don't think it will happen. Ever. You stop selling in pet shops where do people go? to backyard beederds who will have a bigger market, encouraging more of them and producing more supply for the demand, resulting in more of what Crofty came across.. you stop the BYBers,where will people get buns from?? Rescues? the supply will run out eventually, then what?
> 
> Stopping petshops selling will never happen and think they can be monitered much easier than the BYBers


Sorry but i disagree what i came across is a breeder breeding solely for a petshop, the last rescue Duchess did of a similar scale was a BRC breeder  what do you class as a BYB? The supply of rabbits will never run out, do you realise that every rescue has a huge waiting list of buns, alot are PTS whilst waiting, the RSPCA PTS, breeders should have proper licenses to breed, petshops should be banned from selling livestock and there should be laws in place to deter people like this.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> I understand what your saying when I did breed I looked for healthy breeding stock and only bred very slender it got to a point as soon as the petshop got them they got homes. A rescue animal isnt for everyone especailly with hamsters only living 2 year plus. Like i say when any breeder breeds they need to find good homes but its so hard sometimes people arnt what they seem.


But not everyone does this, my local petshop has already started advertising for more 'stock' after the rescues have struggled to clean up this mess. Its really quite traumatising seeing buns like this. When it comes to rescuing buns there are sooo many in rescues young and old theres no reason not to rescue.... the only reason would be that you didnt have the right accomodation. Hamsters arent such a problem because they are easier to look after, dont need as much space and like you said only live to 2 years buns often live in excess of 10 years if they have no health problems.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

crofty said:


> But not everyone does this, my local petshop has already started advertising for more 'stock' after the rescues have struggled to clean up this mess. Its really quite traumatising seeing buns like this. When it comes to rescuing buns there are sooo many in rescues young and old theres no reason not to rescue.... the only reason would be that you didnt have the right accomodation. Hamsters arent such a problem because they are easier to look after, dont need as much space and like you said only live to 2 years buns often live in excess of 10 years if they have no health problems.


I really understand you and applaud you for helping those bunnies the cages where awful, theirs no need. Its good that you where able to help and I can see why you get upset being a rabbit lover. It would really upset me seeing animals in this condition. I also agree rabbits are kept in too small of cages but sadly i dont think it will change.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> I really understand you and applaud you for helping those bunnies the cages where awful, theirs no need. Its good that you where able to help and I can see why you get upset being a rabbit lover. It would really upset me seeing animals in this condition. I also agree rabbits are kept in too small of cages but sadly i dont think it will change.


Thankyou, well i will still keep trying, im working with pets at home at the moment to try and help improve education leaflets given to new owners, its not banning them from selling rabbits but at least im able to have influence over what information they will be giving them. The leaflets are going to print next week featuring pics my very own Dreamer and one of Joey plus a whole page dedicated the rescue Dreamer came from. Small steps


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

This is what makes it all worth while,

a link to pics of three lionheads that were all living together in one of those disgusting 3 ft hutches now exploring their foster home 

Meet Paula, Polly and Pebbles (ex Lymington) - Rabbits United Forum


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

crofty said:


> So you dont think a 3ft hutch is big enough for guinea pigs but you still sell them????? Dwarf rabbits are a medium size rabbit in a 4ft hutch? Thats a foot longer than the ones in the pics, far too small!!!!!! How big are you're 'big' runs because i have never seen a run bigger than 4ftx5ft in a petshop which a rabbit cannot 'run' in. So yes I can say petshops dont care because they still will sell a 3ft hutch for a guinea pig and a 4ft hutch for a rabbit to be shut up in  Those poor animals.


That is me personally thinking about the 3ft hutch and I have never sold one to anyone myself, but you have to have lots of options for people. They arn't always just for rabbits and guineas, we've had people buy them as shelter for their tortoises at night!

A hutch is for an animal to be kept in at night when it is safer for them then being out! Not to be 'shut up in' all day! This is what we tell our customers when they buy a rabbit from us.



crofty said:


> My rabbits are kept in a safe enclosed space of 14x8ft unless im in the garden, personally id rather that than they become fox food. Petshops give information just not the right information most of the time! Rescue animals that have had their future homes checked have a better chance of a nice life than ones that are sold to anybody that walks in a petshop and decides they want the cute bunny in the cage. Why do you think petshops only sell baby buns? Because it encourages people to buy them, its the profit they care about.


Not everyone is in a position to allow a rabbit to have the entire garden to roam so a run is essential. Fair enough our runs are about 6ft x 4/5ft which is obviously not as good as a rabbit having a whole garden to roam about in, but surely if it's the safer option for the rabbit then I would rather they took one of them instead of the rabbit escaping (had loads around me recently ) and potentially being killed. We always tell people that although they have got a run it is best if they can let the rabbit out under supervision to have a proper run around.


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

crofty said:


> breeders should have proper licenses to breed.


This I do agree with!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

xhuskyloverx said:


> That is me personally thinking about the 3ft hutch and I have never sold one to anyone myself, but you have to have lots of options for people. They arn't always just for rabbits and guineas, we've had people buy them as shelter for their tortoises at night!
> 
> A hutch is for an animal to be kept in at night when it is safer for them then being out! Not to be 'shut up in' all day! This is what we tell our customers when they buy a rabbit from us.
> 
> Not everyone is in a position to allow a rabbit to have the entire garden to roam so a run is essential. Fair enough our runs are about 6ft x 4/5ft which is obviously not as good as a rabbit having a whole garden to roam about in, but surely if it's the safer option for the rabbit then I would rather they took one of them instead of the rabbit escaping (had loads around me recently ) and potentially being killed. We always tell people that although they have got a run it is best if they can let the rabbit out under supervision to have a proper run around.


As long as you sell 3ft hutches people will still be able to shut a rabbit in them. As for the runs i agree not everyone can let their bunnies free range and i would never advise they did that unless carefully supervised with them in the garden, i have bunny proofed my garden but would never allow them out without me being there. There is easily an option for petshops to sell bigger runs for rabbit, you can buy them online for the same price as the small ones in petshops! I had a 8ftx6ftx2.5ft run for £90 bought on the internet. Rabbit sare very active at night and i would never ever shut any of mine in a 4ft hutch for any period of time.


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

crofty said:


> As long as you sell 3ft hutches people will still be able to shut a rabbit in them. As for the runs i agree not everyone can let their bunnies free range and i would never advise they did that unless carefully supervised with them in the garden, i have bunny proofed my garden but would never allow them out without me being there. There is easily an option for petshops to sell bigger runs for rabbit, you can buy them online for the same price as the small ones in petshops! I had a 8ftx6ftx2.5ft run for £90 bought on the internet. Rabbit sare very active at night and i would never ever shut any of mine in a 4ft hutch for any period of time.


I do sympathise with the prices though as ours our IMO expensive however this is because they are expensive for the shops to buy. My boss doesn't make any money on the hutches and runs as well as some of the dog food. This is becasue it would push the prices way too high! Some of the interent sites have large warehouses so can store lots, therefore being cheaper to buy in.

If breeders had to have a license to breed the rabbits do you think this would just encourage more BYBs?


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

About the 3ft hutches.. My friend recently got guinea pigs and I advised her on cages etc and told her to go to a rescue.. No she goes to some petshop, gets the piggies, listens to the 'advice' of the petshop that if you don't want them to grow big then buy a smaller cage!! She ended up paying alot of a tiny cage because it's all pretty etc 

Some people just won't listen to advice from those that know what they are talking about and she knows all she had to do was phone and ask if the cage size was ok! Now she won't tell me what pet shop it was because she knows I'll visit and kick up a fuss. She said it was one when she went away for the day but I have my doubts..


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

xhuskyloverx said:


> I do sympathise with the prices though as ours our IMO expensive however this is because they are expensive for the shops to buy. My boss doesn't make any money on the hutches and runs as well as some of the dog food. This is becasue it would push the prices way too high! Some of the interent sites have large warehouses so can store lots, therefore being cheaper to buy in.
> 
> If breeders had to have a license to breed the rabbits do you think this would just encourage more BYBs?


Not if there was a high enough penalty to put them off, we need to give the rspca/rescues some power.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> About the 3ft hutches.. My friend recently got guinea pigs and I advised her on cages etc and told her to go to a rescue.. No she goes to some petshop, gets the piggies, listens to the 'advice' of the petshop that if you don't want them to grow big then buy a smaller cage!! She ended up paying alot of a tiny cage because it's all pretty etc
> 
> Some people just won't listen to advice from those that know what they are talking about and she knows all she had to do was phone and ask if the cage size was ok! Now she won't tell me what pet shop it was because she knows I'll visit and kick up a fuss. She said it was one when she went away for the day but I have my doubts..


Oh christ that doesnt surprise me


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

crofty said:


> Oh christ that doesnt surprise me


I know it's sad it doesn't suprise people really isn't it :frown:

To be honest I'm waiting on a phonecall with something like 'turns out it's a male and female and she is pregnant. Can you take them?' or some other similar story..

We would never turn a rodent/rabbit down but it really feels at times if people try and take advantage of us and see us as an easy way to get rid when they are bored.. Afterall was only the other week I got 2 baby piggies, 9 weeks old because my friends sister had got her daughter them but she was going back to school and bored already  Wouldn't be so bad I suppose if they offered some money towards their care because it's not asif we are a rescue and they took the animals on in the first place!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I know it's sad it doesn't suprise people really isn't it :frown:
> 
> To be honest I'm waiting on a phonecall with something like 'turns out it's a male and female and she is pregnant. Can you take them?' or some other similar story..
> 
> We would never turn a rodent/rabbit down but it really feels at times if people try and take advantage of us and see us as an easy way to get rid when they are bored.. Afterall was only the other week I got 2 baby piggies, 9 weeks old because my friends sister had got her daughter them but she was going back to school and bored already  Wouldn't be so bad I suppose if they offered some money towards their care because it's not asif we are a rescue and they took the animals on in the first place!


Yes this is the problem, people pray on the good nature of others to always help out.

Theres some more pics of the rescue buns here:

Some of the Lymington Buns - in their new rescue placement - Rabbits United Forum


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

its ok saying that the rspca should be given more powers but it will never happen! they will never have enough powers to enter a house without persmisson or a warrent. not even the fire brigade have this power! they are only allowed into a house because we ring them and in affect give them permission to enter the house!


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

animals dont have voices, thats why good natured people contact the RSPCA, what they can actually do is quiet pathetic and it must be an extremely frustrating job, however there have been huge advances in animal welfare law recently and with continuing pressure from such good natured people things can only improve


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

crofty said:


> Not if there was a high enough penalty to put them off, we need to give the rspca/rescues some power.


Yeah true! Maybe if pet shops and rescues could work together and instead of pet shops buying in rabbits from breeders they could help the rescue centres in rehoming the rabbits/guinea pigs. They could also provide temp housing while they are waiting to be rehomed, which would help to reduce the numbers that get pts waiting for a new home?? Don't know if this could ever work, but it is an idea!



CheekoAndCo said:


> if you don't want them to grow big then buy a smaller cage!!.QUOTE]
> 
> That is crazy, I can't even believe that someone would even think that! :scared:


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> its ok saying that the rspca should be given more powers but it will never happen! they will never have enough powers to enter a house without persmisson or a warrent. not even the fire brigade have this power! they are only allowed into a house because we ring them and in affect give them permission to enter the house!


No with that attitude nothing will ever change. We need the law to be on the side of the animals, there is plenty of things that can be done if people can be bothered to do something about it... where would these rabbits be now without us to go in and rescue them?!! They will go to nice homechecked homes unlike alot of petshop bunnies.


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

not with that attitude??? its not an oppionion its fact! i studied the powers that the rspca have over the public and in situations. the govenment will always put humans first and so untill they give the firebrigade and ambulance crews this power they are deffo not going to give it to the rspca! now im not saying this is an ok thing as i think that is personally needs to change to improve the animal welfare issues in this country!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> not with that attitude??? its not an oppionion its fact! i studied the powers that the rspca have over the public and in situations. the govenment will always put humans first and so untill they give the firebrigade and ambulance crews this power they are deffo not going to give it to the rspca! now im not saying this is an ok thing as i think that is personally needs to change to improve the animal welfare issues in this country!


No you're wrong animal welfare has vastly changed compared to 100 years ago. Its not just about the RSPCA gaining access to a property, they could apply for warrants same as the police, they do it in america with dog fighting because its a criminal offense. If the RSPCA work with the police when there are the laws in place to make this type of animal cruelty illegal then of course its possible to do more.

It starts with banning petshops selling livestock and encouraging impulse buying!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

lil_muppet said:


> not with that attitude??? its not an oppionion its fact! i studied the powers that the rspca have over the public and in situations. the govenment will always put humans first and so untill they give the firebrigade and ambulance crews this power they are deffo not going to give it to the rspca! now im not saying this is an ok thing as i think that is personally needs to change to improve the animal welfare issues in this country!


_*
"I am only one, 
but still I am one. 
I cannot do everything, 
but still I can do something; 
and because I cannot do everything, 
I will not refuse to do something I can do."*_


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