# Help - Puppy howled all night!



## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thought the first night was too good to be true, last night was awful 

It was our 8 week old rough collie's 2nd night in her crate & she more or less howled & barked all night. DH ended up going down at 4 to take her out for a wee which she didn't do anyway then put her back in the crate when she tired out again. She then woke & howled very loudly from 4.40-5.20am so I got up to take her out. She did wee then & was full of the joys of spring wanting to play. 

God knows what the neighbours must think! I've read on here about people having their pups in their bedroom but DH really isn't keen on that idea in case she wakes the kids if she starts (they can't hear her downstairs?).

She's in a 42" crate with a bed lined with blankets, cuddly toys & DH's t shirt. What do we do now? I'm dreading tonight already. 

Oh also I put her water bowl in the crate at night but she keeps standing in it and making her vetbed wet. Would a clip on bowl be better? Should I be giving her her meals in her crate as atm she's having them in the kitchen? 

Thanks


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

T'is normal! She is missing her litter mates,, did the breeder give you a blanket or rag from the litter?

Many start the night routine by having the crate closer to where they,the humans are - uptairs maybe - then gradually move it further away!
DT


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

hi i have RC's , most RC's settle into their new homes fairly quickly however as it was only her 2nd night away from her syblings she will miss their company., try putting a toy in with her and get a water bowl that clips onto the side of the cage . 

what routine have you got for her meals i.e. feed times etc? i've never crated a puppy , but i would have thought you'd feed her outside of it ( i may be wrong)


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## BikersBabe (Aug 29, 2011)

Yea it is Normal, don't worry too much she should settle down within a week. Try not to go to her every time she cries or it will become a habit...she will know you come when she cries and the whole process will take longer. Just let her cry and in a week i'm sure she will have stopped. My pup was the same, I just let her cry and after 5 days she was fine, I gave her plenty of teddies to snuggle with.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

If you never want her upstairs personally I would be sleeping downstairs with her for a while. She is in a place she does not know without the companionship of her mum or siblings.... you cant expect her to be confident enough to sleep soundly all night alone just yet.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

She's less likely to bark and howl if she is in your bedroom in her crate. If you raise the crate up so she can see you in bed even better ... if you can put the crate next to your bed so you can reach her better still. She will let you know when she wants the toilet easier and without too much fuss (usually they start turning in their crate becoming restless). If you take her out for the toilet and she doesn't settle when you come back in, a light tap on her crate and a 'shhhh' should makes her settle again.

Pics would be lovely  It's been a fair few years since my RC girl was a pup, so I love seeing RC puppy pics from new owners  and of course from Dexter


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

are you in the uk?


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I always have a new dog sleeping beside my bed. They need reassurance - puppies most of all. Move the crate or bed to the bedroom and when she`s older and more secure, move her out into the kitchen? 
It`s a survival trait for pups to scream if alone. It`s totally natural and something they grow out of when they become a little older and begin to explore the world.


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone, makes M's feel a bit better. How do I upload a pic? x


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## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

I have RC too, fantastic breed. Congratualtions on your pup


See the paper clip when you post?? above by the smiley face and the font ?? click on that or via photobucket.


ps dont post A pic of her........post lots!


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. It just seems to be getting worse crate wise, during the day shes a confident happy little thing, adores the garden & will happily wander out there in the evening for a play & sit down in the cool air. She whines when we bring her in! 

She loves laying on the wooden floor in the lounge, but the minute I move her to the crate, she either walks straight out again or if I shut the door, she howls immediately, which increases to barking & then she generally sees all over her vetbed in distress.  at least before she would tolerate the crate at least during the day. 

Whether we're in the room or not, she hates being confined. 

What can we do to get her used to the crate? Thanks 

X


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## Yellie88 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi Treacle,

we are having similar problems with our pup just now, same age as yours!!

I've had to start crate training from scratch! I threw some treats in and let him nip in and out, when he sat down I clicked him and gave him a treat. I know when I put him in tonight however, it will be a different story!!

I bought a DAP diffuser today, left him for an hour earlier on, didnt hear any howling on my return when I opened the letterbox (sad I know), but then he started barking as soon as he heard the door. Will let you know if the DAP works for us or not, I've heard mixed reviews and its a pretty expensive piece of kit if it doesn't work!!

I was advised to try hot watter bottle/radio/worn t-shirt/kong, so far these havent really worked for us but we continue with them anyway, perhaps they could make a difference for your pup though if you haven't already tried it?

Let us know how you get on


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

do you have the crate inside a puppy pen?


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

I wondered if the DAP thingy might be worth trying. Havent tried clock or water bottle yet, but will give it a go. Thanks

No just a large crate in the lounge. 
X


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

its very early days she should settle down after a few nights , its a new routine for her .


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

She just seems to be getting worse, she literally didn't stop all night except for a few minutes here and there. Her vetbed sticks of wee this morning & when I got her out at 6am she went mad with excitement, didn't know what to do with herself. 

Me, I'm like a walking zombie. I'm being persistent but so is she it seems.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

have you thought of putiing a pen round the crate and leaving the door open of the crate. only a suggestion as i've never crated a dog , only at a show.


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## lisaloo1 (Aug 8, 2011)

When I first started crate training my puppy I used to put the radio on before I went to bed, only quietly, this helped loads, now he goes in the crate himself when he's tired, he's 12 weeks today hope this helps c


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Treacle44 said:


> She just seems to be getting worse, she literally didn't stop all night except for a few minutes here and there. Her vetbed sticks of wee this morning & when I got her out at 6am she went mad with excitement, didn't know what to do with herself.
> 
> Me, I'm like a walking zombie. I'm being persistent but so is she it seems.


Are you now sleeping in the same room as her?


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## Yellie88 (Aug 25, 2011)

Well I have a wee update, Alfie settled much better last night! Not 100% convinced it was due to DAP or my partner passing out on the couch and snoring loudly that actually settled him!! 

But even this morning, after my partner had long gone to bed, when I went through to get him at 7am he was completely silent. A first for Alfie!

He had the odd bark/whine through the night, but much better compared to the constant howling/barking etc.

No poo in the crate either!!

Will let you know how he gets on tonight when my partner isn't snoring on the couch. If he settles the same then I'd say the DAP is a miracle worker, if not my partner is sleeping on the couch for the next few weeks!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Can you leave the radio on low or a ticking clock?


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

you need to make the crate a positive thing... I would be feeding meals etc in there so that he realises that everything about the crate is good  When feeding in there, close the door and just before he has finished open it again so that he gets used to the door being shut, and that it is nothing to worry about as it gets opened again! Then gradually increse this time the crate is shut literally starting from seconds to minutes etc. Hopefully you will start to see an improvement as soon as he realises that it is positive to be in there. A nice juicy bone also works well, again only use the nice juicy bone when you want him to be in the crate, take it away if he comes out of the crate so again he is only getting the nice 'treat' when he is in the crate...


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## lisaloo1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Good luck tonight x


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks so much for all your advice, I have a feeling age just hates being confined full stop but we will perservere a bit longer. She has a ticking clock next to the crate too. Here's hoping, I so need some sleep x


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## karen09 (Mar 30, 2009)

have u tried putting a top that u wear in the crate i did that and my puppy who is 2 and a half he nevered cried through the night once

also i wouldnt put in the water bowl through the night as that means they will want to wee through the night

good luck


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## Mumbles (Apr 17, 2011)

Our Toodles was great the first night and then the 2nd howled all night, we were so worried about the neighbours and by half 2 we brought the crate upstairs to our room and let him try and sleep that way and he did, then the next night was back downstairs again and seemed fine, did have a few howls but quietened down in end, we also put a bottle of hot water in and he seemed to like that and slept with his little blankie on top of it. After a week we moved him into a little pen with crate in and left door of crate open but pen closed and that seemed really good for him as well.

Hope all goes well tonight


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## devilishdp (Sep 3, 2011)

missmoomoo said:


> you need to make the crate a positive thing... I would be feeding meals etc in there so that he realises that everything about the crate is good  When feeding in there, close the door and just before he has finished open it again so that he gets used to the door being shut, and that it is nothing to worry about as it gets opened again! Then gradually increse this time the crate is shut literally starting from seconds to minutes etc. Hopefully you will start to see an improvement as soon as he realises that it is positive to be in there. A nice juicy bone also works well, again only use the nice juicy bone when you want him to be in the crate, take it away if he comes out of the crate so again he is only getting the nice 'treat' when he is in the crate...


i did everything youve suggested with my first pup and after 3 nights of whining we went back to getting a full nights sleep!! my 6 month old still attempts to go in the crate now(its a puppy crate so shes far too big!!) now crate training my second pup its been 2 days in the crate and so far so good still whines but hasnt once done her "business" in there oh and id deffinately have the pup in my room for at least the first week! good luck


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## sezra (May 20, 2011)

Good luck with your training, I completely sympathise with you. 

One month ago we collected a 5 month old Cockapoo puppy who had been returned twice to the breeder. We were told she just needed a couple of nights to settle but it turned out that she had seperation anxiety. My poor girlie barks, whines, howls, sweats, drools, destroys her beds/blankets and tries to dig out of her crate. We also had issues with messing the crate. After two weeks of sleeping downstairs and moving myself further away each night I am now back in my own bed!  

In addition to this method we used a dap diffuser. I was unsure whether this worked until it ran out and she completely relapsed! I couldn't understand what had gone wrong and then I noticed the empty bottle! We feed in the crate and I reward her when she goes in at night. We still have a long way to go as she still gets upset if I leave the room or go out but it is a massive improvement. Hopefully as she is with us longer she will feel more and more secure.

I am sure that you won't have such an extreme problem and I hope that your little one continues to settle.


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## Yellie88 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi Treacle,

Have to say I have noticed a slight difference with alfie since we bought the DAP, now it's not a miracle worker, but he will at least stop howling now!!

I was very proud of him today when I returned from a food shop to find him quiet, water bowl upright and no pee or poo in his crate!

I would say the DAP has given us a better idea of when he needs the loo, as beforehand we couldn't tell as he just howled and barked all night. Now when he barks, we know he needs so we nip through, clean up if any accidents and pop him back in, and he settles after 10-15mins.

Worth thinking about if you have exhausted other options like we had


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for updating me, we are so sleep deprived & Lottie is actually full on barking now (breeder was shocked that she's barking at only 8 weeks) so we are thinking of putting a stairgate up & letting her sleep in the hall tonight. Any advice?

Feels like we're giving in but it's 6 nights of barely any sleep & she seems so distressed at night, it's awful)  

Or should we ride it out a bit longer and get one of the DAP things? Where is the best place to get them from? 

X


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## Starfish (Jul 26, 2011)

Yellie88, so pleased to hear the progress with Alfie, thats awesome news 

Treacle44 sorry to hear your struggling with your girl, I can imagine how exhausted you feel! We were just extremely lucky with our ESS boy but I think it was only due to prior prep work from hearing horror stories from our friends who owned dogs. We made sure we had an arsenal of tools ready; DAP diffuser, ticking clock, sweater with our scent on, a cuddly toy, and we asked the breeder to provide us with a blanket when we collected him.

We made sure the crate was open and he could wander in and out on his own, but even then he would stand half in and half out to eat his food and treats! 
The first night he cried for around 5 mins but that was it, and a month later he is amazingly well behaved with his crate. Like others have mentioned he will take himself off to his crate and nap there on his own accord now, he knows it's his safe time-out place and he won't be disturbed in there; he actually jumps in eagerly at night cause he always gets a treat chucked in at bedtime. It can take a while to get them used to it but be persistant and hopefully it will work. If you are already at desperation level for sleep, which I wouldn't blame you for, then I would either try sleeping on the couch with her close by, or bring her in the bedroom so she can be near you and gradually move her out as she becomes used to it.

It's tricky and those early days can be taxing on you and the pup, very best of luck and hope she settles soon and you can catch up on some rest  x

DAP thingies http://www.petplanet.co.uk/search_adv.asp


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thank you for being so kind & understanding, bright tears to my eyes, must be emotiOnal from sleep depravation lol! 

The breeder was concerned about the full on barking & suggested a pet corrector spray sprayed once of twice if she is full on barking. No idea if that's the right thing to do or not. 

Lottie has all the comforters suggested except a DAP diffuser. Think I'm just shocked that a rough collie is being so strong willed & stubborn, never known it before. 

Thanks xx


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## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

Where is the crate at night?? How long have you had her now??


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## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

Treacle44 said:


> Thank you for being so kind & understanding, bright tears to my eyes, must be emotiOnal from sleep depravation lol!
> 
> The breeder was concerned about the full on barking & suggested a pet corrector spray sprayed once of twice if she is full on barking. No idea if that's the right thing to do or not.
> 
> ...


I think your puppy is afraid she has left her mum and her litter mates. Can she have her crate next to your bed or can you sleep downstairs with her?? She is just a baby in a strange place. I know you must be really tired but as I said she is a baby. I also disagree that she is being strong willed and stubborn. As for the use of spray??????? I sincerely hope you not considering using this?? I am a little shocked that your breeder has suggested it given the circumstances.


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Don't want to go down the bringing her upstairs route, we've tries laying downstairs with her but it makes no difference, I'm pretty sure it's the confinement of the crate that's the issue. As soon as she's let out, she calms down instantly then lays down and relaxes. Don't get me wring, I know she's a tiny puppy & expect some settling in bless her, but 6 nights of barking ALL night is taking it's toll now. I'm so tired, plus she's sleeping the day away as she's clearly tired too. 

What's wrong with the spray then? It's diffused air isn't it?


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## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

It is just my personal opinion that the spray is not necessary when she is only 8 weeks old but it would be your choice whether to use it of course. Do you think there is any possibly that you are now stressed from the barking and tiredness and are now anticipating it and hence she is picking up on your stress so thinking crate is bad?? 

Barking is a hard prob to solve.


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## cloverfan (May 4, 2011)

ps wheres the photos??


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm not showing her any of my stress, she's so lovely & it's not in my nature. During the day she's very happy & relaxed little thing, very inquisitive but is happy to be downstairs on her own if I need to go upstairs to do things. No problems at all. It's the minute she's goes in the crate. Our lounge and kitchen is open plan so she can't go in there so its the crate or the hallway. I'm just so tired & don't know what to do for the best. 

I had a read up about the corrector spray, it says it mimics a snake hissing or such like. Are they really bad to use then? I'm honestly interested to know. The breeder is very well respected & has rung almost every day to check how things are so when she suggested it, I assumed it was an ok product to use. 

I'm on my phone & don't seem to be able to put pics on other than my avatar. I'll try again tomorrow. . X


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Also can anyone please recommend if the DAP diffuser or spray is better? Thanks x


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## Yellie88 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi Treacle44

We were in the exact same situation, had tried everything!! We only have the diffuser, you can buy it online, pets at home or your vets may have it. I can't comment on the spray though as I haven't used it.

Alfie was good last night, cried for about 15 minutes, then was quiet through the night. The only time he barked was when he needed a wee. He was actually quiet till 8am!! now that is an achievement!!

Bare in mind that this has taken us 2 weeks to get to this stage, it's a hard slog, but in the end tough love does work! I never thought we would get to this stage, but hopefully he keeps it up  time will tell.

That's the longest sleep I've had in 3 weeks...I could jump for joy!

Hope this encourages you that it will hopefully get better, and there is light at the end of the tunnel!! :smilewinkgrin:


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

no corrector spray please she's only baby . she will settle soon it takes time. its a huge upheaval for a puppy to leave his syblings and settle into a completely new routine. It'll be worth it in the end.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

i've only used the dap diffuser for fireworks, its not 100% but dogs do seem calmer.


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks yellie, makes me feel much better. So glad Alfie is settling better!  

Well I feel like a new woman too, Lottie yelped when we put her in the crate last night despite sitting with her feeding some dry food whilst she laid in there & praising her. My heart sank as I got into bed, then 5 mins later it stopped! Only heard her then at 5.45! Either we were that tired & slept through it or she slept!!  hoping for the latter! 

Here's hoping for both of us eh, you more than me, you're more sleep deprived! Lol x


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

sounds like things are on the up for you  in regards to the corrector spray, they are a good tool when used in the right circumstances, this I wouldn't class as one of those


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks to you all re. The corrector spray, points noted.  xx

Will get on my pc shortly & post some pics on Chat!


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## Yellie88 (Aug 25, 2011)

Treacle44 said:


> Thanks yellie, makes me feel much better. So glad Alfie is settling better!
> 
> Well I feel like a new woman too, Lottie yelped when we put her in the crate last night despite sitting with her feeding some dry food whilst she laid in there & praising her. My heart sank as I got into bed, then 5 mins later it stopped! Only heard her then at 5.45! Either we were that tired & slept through it or she slept!!  hoping for the latter!
> 
> Here's hoping for both of us eh, you more than me, you're more sleep deprived! Lol x


we're all in it together!! It would be so nice if pups came with instruction manuals!! :laugh:

hopefully this is a sign of good things to come for you and your pup.

Keep us updated! x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

where did you get your pup from Treacle? pm me.


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## Starfish (Jul 26, 2011)

Yay! Glad you managed to get some sleep, hopefully this is a good sign of things to come and she will settle more and more.

I can see why you would start to consider any and all tactics in relation to the corrector spray, being without sleep is utterly soul destroying and can rapidly sap the enjoyment from having a new pup in the house. In my opinion I think the reason the corrector sprays aren't advocated is because it's more a punishment method of correction rather than positive reinforcement. The dog's natural inclination is to bark to express itself in certain situations, and when the spray is used it is essentially punishing the dog by shocking or frightening it in to stopping. The problem is, this could actually exacerbate the problem rather than resolving it, as your dog may bark again in anticipated fear of the spray, then you've got a bit of a vicious cycle on your hands.  Anyway as mentioned, her sleeping a few hours should hopefully mean this kind of correction won't be necessary.

In relation to the DAP products, just incase you still want to employ them, I would say the diffuser is good for long term use; it can also take a day or two for the particles to 'settle' in the room it's used in, so won't be an instant fixer, but it's a steady constant release of the hormones. The DAP sprays are good because they provide a sort of instant effect, and they can be used on articles of clothing, the pup's blanket etc.

Good luck and hope the positive progress continues! x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

how are things now?


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

any updates ??


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hiya thanks for thinking if me. 

Things have improved I'm so happy to say (hope I haven't jinxed it by saying that!). Lottie slept from 11-5.45 Tuesday night & 10-5.45 last night with a 20 min howl about 2.30pm when she wanted a wee. 

So hoping she's finally settling. 

She's just lovely such a character. X


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

thats good because i was very worried . as most collie pups settle in very easily to their new life.


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

11-6 without a peep. All is well & I'm Smiling again. Think she's going to be spirited than the average collie!


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