# Abby and her babies



## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Hello! This thread is for me to post pics of Abby and her babies and also ask for advice. If I have questions about her and her babies I will be posting them here. If you don't mind- please check this thread if I make new posts, just in case I'm panicking about something 

Anyway. I'm going to edit this thread in a few minutes and attach some kitten pictures. Gonna go snap some pics now.

Edit: pics, as promised


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

The nutri pet-drops that were recommended to me by someone on here arrived. (the ones I got are for dogs/puppies, but you guys said that should still be okay.. it's all that I could find)

Is this something that I should be giving to them often, or only if one is doing poorly? I don't like the idea of supplementing something in their diet everyday if it's originally intended for use in dogs/puppies.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh my gosh :001_wub::001_wub: How utterly adorable they all are :001_wub:
I would only give the Nutridrops if you have a kitten that isn't doing so well but from your previous thread it sounds as if they are all gaining weight and progressing nicely now :thumbsup:


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

These are gorgeous! Lovely, lovely babies and lovely, lovely mammy cat.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Oh my gosh :001_wub::001_wub: How utterly adorable they all are :001_wub:
> I would only give the Nutridrops if you have a kitten that isn't doing so well but from your previous thread it sounds as if they are all gaining weight and progressing nicely now :thumbsup:


Yes they are all doing well now. Thanks! Glad I have these as an emergency way to get a kitty nutrients if need be.

Right now I'm studying for an exam and all kitties are sleeping next to me :001_wub::001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:


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## Reets (Feb 19, 2014)

Beautiful mum and babes


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You can give the Nutri Drops before vaccination, and other stressful events, I never have but it's in the info sheet that comes with them, similar info can be found on the company website Bovidr Laboratores, Inc. - Nutrition for these Stress Conditions

Do you know anything about Abby's history or where she came from? It's interesting you got a mostly CP litter


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Aww such lovely photos. Abby is stunning, she must have some pedigree in her surely - those markings and eyes - wow :001_wub:


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Ahhh! Send them all to me!! :001_tt1:


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

spotty cats said:


> You can give the Nutri Drops before vaccination, and other stressful events, I never have but it's in the info sheet that comes with them, similar info can be found on the company website Bovidr Laboratores, Inc. - Nutrition for these Stress Conditions
> 
> Do you know anything about Abby's history or where she came from? It's interesting you got a mostly CP litter


She was a stray in a trailer park neighborhood. An elderly woman noticed she was pregnant and took her in. Once she started nesting the woman called the rescue.

On a side note--- *one kitten lost weight in the past 24 hours (actually a little more than 24 hours)... Kitten number 4 lost 11 grams.*

She seems fine and is currently nursing without any issue. She is not crying and not separated from the group. Should I weigh her again in a few hours and she how she is? What should I do?


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## PetParadiseGifts (Feb 1, 2015)

Aww they are cute, good luck with them! Yes I'd weigh kitten 4 later today to see if it's lost any more or gaining. (hopefully gained!)


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

PetParadiseGifts said:


> Aww they are cute, good luck with them! Yes I'd weigh kitten 4 later today to see if it's lost any more or gaining. (hopefully gained!)


It has gained 3 grams in the past two hours. I'm going to leave her be now and just keep a close watch. Right now they are all sleeping with their momma... Was able to snap a pic of some cute snuggling between momma and a kitten..


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Fingers crossed it was nothing more than tum full, bladder & bowels full vs all empty. It's good they are all huddling and so on.

Lovely photo, mum looks very proud of her brood.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Today almost all kitties lost weight. The one that lost weight yesterday didn't gain or lose any weight today. One kitten gained 2 grams. The rest all lost anywhere from 3-8g.

They really seem fine. I've had a fading kittens before, and I've lost kittens before, these guys don't seem like that. 

Last night mom slept in my bed and left the kittens alone (I think she usually does this at night?).. then I woke up and weighed them a few minutes ago. Maybe they are just on empty bellies from not being fed last night? They are all eating now.

On a positive note, kitten number 4's eyes are just beginning to open. The rest of the litter is still eyes-shut.

Edit: I spoke with someone at the rescue and she recommended weighing them at night instead of in the morning. Saw a couple solid stools this morning from the kittens, so that's good (better than that diarrhea some of them were having). We are also going to add some wet food and higher calorie food to moms diet. She is still eating and drinking, but she isn't emptying her bowl as frequently as a few days ago.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Most kittens losing weight still. One gained a gram.

Mom isn't eating much. Have tried three different kinds of wet food and a new dry food. She will lick the wet food, but not really eat it. She isn't really eating her dry food anymore. Otherwise she is fine.


I'm afraid since she isn't eating much and the kittens aren't gaining much that she might not be making enough milk for them. I'm having a lady from the rescue come over today and we are going to come up with a plan and she is going to assess the mom and see if she need a vet visit.

I'll be out of town from Wednesday through Sunday so we are thinking of handing the kitties off to another foster where they can be watched closely and bottle fed while momma makes more milk. then when I'm back I can bottle feed them.

Originally the plan was to have my boyfriend watch them while I was out of town, but he doesn't feel comfortable bottle feeding so I think it's a better idea to have another foster home do it.

Apparently this other foster lady works wonders with kittens. I used to have that reputation when I fostered, but with being in class all day I just won't have the time to feed them as often as they need. Though next week after Sunday is spring break so I will be able to feed as often as they need.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh dear  Sorry to hear that things aren't going so well  I hope you and the rescue centre find a good solution and that both mum and kittens thrive.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Think mum needs a vet check, just in case, and babies need topping up so they are at least not losing weight.

Whatever, don't feed them on their backs like human babies as the milk will go into their lungs. Feed them in the position you have seen them feeding from her in.

EDIT: If mum is not at least cuddling up with them, pop them on a heat pad. Make sure there is room for them to move off it if they are too warm, but if they are cold feeding milk is dangerous - they need to be warm to digest it.

Lots of good information from iCatCare:

Hand rearing kittens | international cat care


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Think mum needs a vet check, just in case, and babies need topping up so they are at least not losing weight.
> 
> Whatever, don't feed them on their backs like human babies as the milk will go into their lungs. Feed them in the position you have seen them feeding from her in.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this information, though I do know how to bottle feed a kitten and I do know about using a heating pad on low with a towel on top when mom isn't snuggling. I've fostered a lot of sick kittens before... But thank you for the information, a lot of people don't know how to bottle feed and it's good to assume that I don't know what I'm doing and give me all of the information you can, so I appreciate that.

Unfortunately mom tested positive for feline leukemia today. It was a "faint" positive which apparently means there is a chance she can over come it. There is one lab in New Jersey that has a special test that can confirm or deny the diagnosis and it is the only way to be certain, so I am in contact with them. Apparently I need to wait 2 months first to see if the mom tests positive again in two months.

Obviously this is very bad news. If she is a true positive it is likely the kittens will die soon and she wont live much longer. I am hoping the slight positive means she can fight it off. I don't know if the kittens will be able to fight it off.

Handed the kittens over to another foster who is apparently very good at bottle feeding and getting kittens to eat. None of them would take to the bottle when I tried. Since I will be out of town for a few days it will be good to have someone else watching. I'm also getting into contact with a vet I worked for who works in shelter medicine to see what she knows and if she has had any cases like this....

Lady with the rescue just came and I gave her the babies and mom. I'm sitting alone in my room now writing this, no momma, no babies... Overall it is a sad day at my house.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sad news  Do let us know how she and the kittens get on with their new carer. I hope the outlook is not so bleak as it seems at the moment


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry you've had bad news.

Mum doesn't sound well being off her food, she may have retained a placenta or part of one since not all births were witnessed, or have another infection. 
Hopefully the kittens and mum will be ok.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hoping mum and kittens will be ok.

Mum could also have mastitis, I would have a vet check.

Hope you can keep us updated.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Apparently the chance that her test was a false positive is very high. So we are sending a sample out to a lab that does a different test which has certain results.

Mom's condition is declining. She won't eat and isn't grooming herself or babies.

She is currently at the vet getting fluids and they are going to run blood work. They are going to check for a retained placenta, though I have not seen green discharge.


I am anxiously waiting for a call to hear what the vet finds.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hope mum will be ok.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Vet couldn't find anything wrong with her. They gave her fluids and sent her home. They said it is probably the stress of being a mom that is making her not eat. The vet also said she is drying up (makes sense why babies were losing weight, not getting enough food).. 

So all babies are being bottle fed (well dropper-fed... one drop at a time.. they are so stubborn) 


Thanks for the support so far.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh poor little things - hoping mum and babies do OK and sending lots of positive thoughts for the wee babies xx


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Sorry for the inactivity. I was out of town since last Wednesday. Mom continued to not eat while I was gone, just nibbled occasionally. She was seen by another vet who did full blood work and again couldn't find anything. Her sample for leukemia was sent out and we should get the results any day. She did have a fever at the vet. They have her an antibiotic injection hoping it would help.

Kittens are thriving well with being bottle fed and they have been completely seperated from their mom for about a week now.

I got back last night and picked up momma from the other foster who was watching her while I was gone. Once I got her home to my house she immediately started eating. She cleared her bowl and then some. Today she seems very well and continues to eat and show interest in food. Her fever broke the day of the antibiotic injection and she hasn't had one since.

Her glands seem full but I don't get milk when I squeeze, nothih is coming out, though I haven't had too much luck in the past getting milk out.


I'm talking to the rescue about potentially reuniting her with her kittens, but I don't want to do anything that may make her sick again, and nursing is has a very high energy demand.

I asked the rescue if we can take her to the vet today for an opinion on whether or not we should reunite.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Obvious question which I am sure the vet would know, but mum doesn't have mastitis does she?


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

catcoonz said:


> Obvious question which I am sure the vet would know, but mum doesn't have mastitis does she?


That's my concern, but no pus coming out. Called the vet they can see her today.


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## m1xc2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Fingers crossed everything will work out. It sounds like the kittens, at least, are doing pretty well. Thinking of you.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

lizbsn said:


> Fingers crossed everything will work out. It sounds like the kittens, at least, are doing pretty well. Thinking of you.


Yes it sounds like they are. I haven't seen them in a week because I don't have time to bottle feed every few hours, so they are with a different foster home. I miss them so much! Apparently all of their eyes have opened fully. I get to visit them tomorrow


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Abby's lab result for leukemia was negative! (Meaning the in-house result was a false-positive)

She has been eating really well and has milk so we decided to reunite her with her babies.

We are continuing to supplement them with bottle feedings just to be safe.

All eyes are open and they like to sit up and look around. Some are grooming themselves and playing a little bit.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

rachaelq said:


> All eyes are open and they like to sit up and look around. Some are grooming themselves and playing a little bit.


Pictures?!!?


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

smoking guns said:


> Pictures?!!?


Hehehe. Here are a few pics.


























Also, mom keeps drying up. She was just reunited yesterday and was full of milk, today her glands are very small and I can't get any milk to come out. Why is she so bad at making milk for them? What can I do to help her make more milk?

In the mean time I am supplementing kittens with bottle feedings. How often would you feed kittens that are 2 and a half weeks old?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She will be empty after feeding them. Are you still weighing them?

Milk is supply & demand. If you bottle feed too much they won't suckle on her and her milk will diminsh / dry up. 

Let her eat as much as she wants of good-quality food, there's not much else you can do.

Looks like you have a LH kitten there.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> She will be empty after feeding them. Are you still weighing them?
> 
> Milk is supply & demand. If you bottle feed too much they won't suckle on her and her milk will diminsh / dry up.
> 
> ...


She has been very picky about food. We have tried a lot of brands (including very high quality ones), but she will only eat meow mix dry and fancy feast wet. She is also taking an appetite stimulant twice a week.

Do you think I should let them nurse today without bottle feeding? I weighed yesterday and two kittens gained weight (about 10g) and the rest stayed the same.

This morning two wouldn't take from the bottle at all, but would suckle on mom. None are crying when not eating.

We do have a runt who weighs about 220g, while the rest weigh just about 300g. Our runt eats much less than the others and noticeably skinny compared to them.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Kittens did really good today. Momma is making milk. I fed them only twice today, but they gained a LOT.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

They are sooo munchable.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

rachaelq said:


> Kittens did really good today. Momma is making milk. I fed them only twice today, but they gained a LOT.


Sounds like things are heading in the right direction - they are suckling enough to stimulate milk production and she is well enough to respond. Phew! I really wouldn't worry about what she eats, it's more important at present she eats lots than eats a perfect diet.

However when the kittens start taking an interest in her food, put down a good variety of good-quality food - that is grain-free food. and wet food in preference to dry.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

Today mom insists on moving the kittens under my bed. I'd really rather the kittens not be there, because I don't want them to make a mess down there and I like that I can see them in the box.. but I can't stop her. She is extremely persistent and keeps picking up a random kitten and attempting to move it. I finally just caved and let her move a kitten. I'm hoping after an hour or so "her way" I can convince her to go back to the box. Otherwise I may try to make a new set up for them (new box, new area, etc).. So she feels like she has moved them, but it will be in a spot that I feel is more appropriate.

She still pants fairly often. We have told the vets this and none were able to find anything wrong. she seems to pant when she is moving a lot (like moving the kittens around) or when it is hot in my room (in which case I turn on the fan and AC)

Edit: I had to get creative with where to move them. She insisted on moving them so I tried to give her an alternative option to under the bed..










I don't like this spot because they get out easily, but so far they haven't gone far and have turned back around to be with their siblings. It is better than under the bed and mom seems okay with it


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you have a room they can have to themselves that is idea, otherwise you have to let her get on with it. Moving kittens can be because she feels insucure. and keeping moving them isn't good for the kittens.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you have a room they can have to themselves that is idea, otherwise you have to let her get on with it. Moving kittens can be because she feels insucure. and keeping moving them isn't good for the kittens.


She does have a room to herself now, but under the bed is the only area I don't want them to be. She seems okay with this new spot and so do the kittens. right now she is laying in bed next to me while I study and we can both see her kittens sleeping comfortably from here.


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## Reets (Feb 19, 2014)

They are stunningly beautiful. So pleased to hear they are all doing well too.


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

She is very beautiful I love those blue eyes


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm so pleased they are all doing well.

I'm wondering if mum has some Bengal in her. I know that some Bengal's pant.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

All cats pant if hot and/or stressed.


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## rachaelq (Mar 6, 2015)

So sorry for lack of updates. Kittens are GREAT!!! Getting so big. Mom is making plenty of milk, but they are eating dry food and drinking water as well. Mom is no longer having diarrhea after switching to a food of higher quality.

In the process of finding them all homes. One has been adopted (although still with me until 8-9 weeks old and fixed, vaccinated, chipped and dewormed).

I'll have to post some pics later.


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