# Is it ok to tap your puppy on the nose to say no



## mollymoo20

Molly is 5 and half months old and bites me as she teething , she only does it to me i tap her on the nose to say no and give her a toy to chew instead , this really works and she understands, but may friend said i shouldnt tap her on the nose x


----------



## sue&harvey

No! Their nose is very sensitive. Better to redirect attention as a dog does not know what NO is, unless it is paired with an aversive.


----------



## SEVEN_PETS

I'd personally say No firmly and then give her the chew. Once she's chewing on the chew, praise her. I don't see why you need to tap her on the nose to be honest.


----------



## Guest

I would not tap on the nose - as the dog gets older it could see a hand coming out towards him as potential punishment
DT

Many years ago lots of dogs used to be aftraid of newspapers! the reason being was that owners used to train dogs using the newspaper as a weapon


----------



## moboyd

I agree with others all my dogs learnt the NO word without any need for punisment.

Mo


----------



## FRENCHIE007

Totally agree with the above, you should never lay your hand on your dog, especially the nose, noise distraction is far more effective, either voice, i prefer little spray of water in the face always works for me.


----------



## newfiesmum

I don't see how spraying a dog in the face with water is any different from a nose tap. It was always the done thing in my family to stop puppy biting, doesn't really hurt them, but does make their eyes water so they don't like it. Some dogs will react with terror, some not so much. If you can find another way, then that would be better, but not water spraying. I have found that if you don't react, just keep your hand perfectly still and say No, it works just as well.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy

Would you slap a baby`s face? Or throw water at him? No - so tell your friend to read a few books about dog training.


----------



## FRENCHIE007

OMG, you have obversely never had a high energy staffie with puppy teeth. I don't think you would keep your hand there for long.



ClaireandDaisy said:


> Would you slap a baby`s face? Or throw water at him? No - so tell your friend to read a few books about dog training.


----------



## FRENCHIE007

OMG, do you honestly think the a little spray of water is the same as hitting a dog on its nose, shouting at them. It worked for my staffie, he is almost perfect, it did him no harm. But all dogs are different, you cant generalise.



newfiesmum said:


> I don't see how spraying a dog in the face with water is any different from a nose tap. It was always the done thing in my family to stop puppy biting, doesn't really hurt them, but does make their eyes water so they don't like it. Some dogs will react with terror, some not so much. If you can find another way, then that would be better, but not water spraying. I have found that if you don't react, just keep your hand perfectly still and say No, it works just as well.


----------



## Acacia86

It does not matter what breed your dog is! Or what energy levels they have! Etc etc!

A tap on the nose is a no no in my eyes.

A puppy will 'mouth' (which means bite/chew/nip) your hand. Its NORMAL!! If people really really hate this or are adament they do not want that stage then do not go and get a puppy.

A puppy goes through many stages very quickly, and we as humans might not keep up. Mouthing is completely, utterly normal, it is puppy behaviour! 

To stop this is by giving something suitable to chew right away, but rather than give it and leave the pup right after they have mouthed try and discourage it at the same time. Or some puppies might use this mouthing to get these things. (only from experience can i say this!)

Also, yelp loud, without pulling your hand and waving it about! Puppies learn bite inhibition while in the litter and this is what the siblings do. As you might have noticed the pups that yelp do not move and run around!!

I also used the classic walking away/back turning! I walked away only a handful of times before he realised that mouthing got him no where! However, once i walked away and got to the room in was walking to, i would call his name and treat him with a toy/chew/treat etc

Zulu did not mouth for long, it meant nothing to him after this! Instead he got more fun by recalling and chewing other things..........(although lets not go into what during his ''older-younger'' stage  :lol


----------



## metaldog

mollymoo20 said:


> Molly is 5 and half months old and bites me as she teething , she only does it to me i tap her on the nose to say no and give her a toy to chew instead , this really works and she understands, but may friend said i shouldnt tap her on the nose x


She's your dog and it's up to you how you train her, so long as it's only a light tap I don't see why it would do any harm.


----------



## Acacia86

metaldog said:


> She's your dog and it's up to you how you train her, so long as it's only a light tap I don't see why it would do any harm.


Because you will be tapping on the nose for what the dog see's as a completely natural thing. The dog is not being naughty its following whats ingrained..............instinct!

The pup is just that, a pup, a baby. So instinct over rules right now in this instance.

Its a personal belief that puppy/dog training should all be done with positive ways. Or ''positive reinforcement'' not using anything else.

But thats my own opinion. I do know people do it other ways.


----------



## Jomox

Tapping on the nose can be ok, but not for allot of breeds. Really depends on the temperament of the dog and how you use the soft tap on the nose. Used in the right way it's highly effective and does not have any negative effects at all, only positives, but only if used properly on the right dog, does not work on all.


----------



## Zaros

Jomox said:


> Tapping on the nose can be ok, but not for allot of breeds. Really depends on the temperament of the dog and how you use the soft tap on the nose. Used in the right way it's highly effective and does not have any negative effects at all, only positives, but only if used properly on the right dog, does not work on all.


Isn't this type of behviour related to aversion therapy?

I think I would be inclined to punch someone square in the face if I caught them hitting a dog on its nose, or anywhere else for that matter, and continue to do so until they got the message that hitting an animal is not a positive method of teaching a dog right from wrong.
If I hit my 2 dogs because I wanted to make them cease from undesired behaviour it would only be a matter of time before they turned on me.
120 kilos of crazy canine is not to be trifled with I can tell you that much.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Babies teeth and we give them teething rings, something cold from the fridge etc. Make sure your pup has plenty of things to chew and if he prefers your hand then either get a chewable something and put gently in his mouth with lots of praise and encouragement to chew or what I did was to have her cuddly toy handy and push that gently between her mouth and my hand and start up a really fun game with the toy.
Distraction works a lot better and with persistance, they get it. "No" did mean anything to Heidi (altho I used it)until she was over 12 months old, then she grasped it. Generally, it's not a word I use unless I am floundering


----------



## Jomox

Zaros said:


> Isn't this type of behviour related to aversion therapy?
> 
> I think I would be inclined to punch someone square in the face if I caught them hitting a dog on its nose, or anywhere else for that matter, and continue to do so until they got the message that hitting an animal is not a positive method of teaching a dog right from wrong.
> If I hit my 2 dogs because I wanted to make them cease from undesired behaviour it would only be a matter of time before they turned on me.
> 120 kilos of crazy canine is not to be trifled with I can tell you that much.


I think your going over the top, who said anything about hitting a dog on a nose? :confused1:

A slight soft tap on the nose with finger (very softly) , and a hit on the nose are two different things, no ones talking about hitting the dog on the nose, as that's just wrong and is not what we are talking about here....


----------



## mollymo

mollymoo20 said:


> Molly is 5 and half months old and bites me as she teething , she only does it to me i tap her on the nose to say no and give her a toy to chew instead , this really works and she understands, but may friend said i shouldnt tap her on the nose x


There is a good chance your pup will become head shy as she grows into an adult if you continue to tap her on the nose....her very sensitive area....a firm NO or AHH should be enough or distract her in another way.
Listen to your friend she is right


----------



## Blitz

I would say do not tap a dog on the nose. Not because it is cruel but because it could too easily have a different effect to the one wanted. The dog will learn to back off from a hand coming towards it and a very nervous or a very dominant dog may well learn also to bite before the hand can hurt it.

this is very different from spraying the dog with water because the dog will not relate this with the person spraying but will just realise that when it goes to bite or mouth it will get water in its face. Not a method I have ever used but I know plenty who do for other problems.

I think someone mentioned holding a dog on either side of its scruff in another thread. This used to be the usual way to correct a dog among the more dog knowledgeable people because if you tapped the dog on the nose with newspaper or your hand you either made it nervous or aggressive but scruffing it was more what another dog would do to a pup and they seem to accept and understand it.

What a ridiculous analogy to make over hitting a baby in the face. That would be like correcting a 2 week puppy. But a toddler or 5 year old that is testing the boundaries often gets a slap or the warning of one.

Back to the original question though, tapping on the nose is counter productive so is not a good correction.


----------



## Colette

I personally would not hit an infant animal in the face for perfectly normal behaviour.

It's all well and good saying its only a light tap - that's how it always starts - with the best intentions. But I have yet to meet a single person who has started off "tapping" their animal / child who has not gone on to forceful hitting at some stage.
As soon as you lose your temper - the pup nips especially hard, you've had a crap day at work etc - suddenyl it goes from a two finger tap to a full on open hand slap across the bridge of the nose.

There is absolutely NO NEED to resort to violence to teach puppies basic manners, simply teaching them that using teeth results in all attention / play / fun / good things ending is highly effective and long lasting - and does not cause the pup any pain, fear, distress or confusion.

The risk of using physical violence also includes making the dog handshy - increasing the likelihood the dog will at some stage snap or bite a raised or extended hand.

Whole world of wrong in my opinion.


----------



## newfiesmum

In the past, tapping a dog on the nose was always the way to teach them not to nip. I have to say that my family as a whole never had any problems resulting from this, but we never had any nervous pups, or the sort of breed that could take it the wrong way and end up being aggressive toward a stray hand. These methods are no longer acceptable and have been proven to cause all sorts of problems later on. I can't say it is always easy to stay calm when a bite really hurts; we are only human after all. But there are, as pointed out, other ways.


----------



## Jomox

newfiesmum said:


> In the past, tapping a dog on the nose was always the way to teach them not to nip. I have to say that my family as a whole never had any problems resulting from this, but we never had any nervous pups, or the sort of breed that could take it the wrong way and end up being aggressive toward a stray hand. These methods are no longer acceptable and have been proven to cause all sorts of problems later on. I can't say it is always easy to stay calm when a bite really hurts; we are only human after all. But there are, as pointed out, other ways.


Yeah I agree. I've trained over 35 dogs and only had to use a slight tap on the nose on 3 which would not learn any other way (naughty dogs which required intensive training as the owners struggled and 2 of the dogs where on stage of pts) The slight soft tap on the nose was only used to teach the dog at first not do it, once it learned and it obeyed to speech/hand signals then it's discarded, it saved two of the dogs life's. Also the effects where highly positive and no negative effects at all where caused by it in the long term. It's easy for people to misunderstand the use of it and think its all bad and has only negative effects when that's not the case, but it's delicate and should not be used unless really needed as most dogs don't need to have it done at all as speech/hand signals normally always work good.


----------



## Horse and Hound

Jomox said:


> I think your going over the top, who said anything about hitting a dog on a nose? :confused1:
> 
> A slight soft tap on the nose with finger (very softly) , and a hit on the nose are two different things, no ones talking about hitting the dog on the nose, as that's just wrong and is not what we are talking about here....


Exactly!

I don't think the OP is talking about punching a dog in the nose! 

I flicked Rupert on the nose yesterday for the first time ever. He snapped at another dog, for no reason (sorry Kai) so I told him off.


----------



## Snoringbear

No. It's just teaching them to fear human hands.


----------



## Talie

I completely agree with snoring bear , also it can damage there nose! :S 
When your puppy bite's you, you can either say ouch.. but over exaggerate it! Then ingnore them for a while . (they will connect biting you and having no attetion is a no no ) 
Or when they bite give a very firm No , then corrct them by giving them a chew toy to chew on .


----------



## vixtory

Talie said:


> I completely agree with snoring bear , also it can damage there nose! :S
> When your puppy bite's you, you can either say ouch.. but over exaggerate it! Then ingnore them for a while . (they will connect biting you and having no attetion is a no no )
> Or when they bite give a very firm No , then corrct them by giving them a chew toy to chew on .


I`m just trying the firm no followed by the chew toy now with Holly, its working for us x


----------



## jomac

Hi

I have watched quite alot of training vids and would recommend *SIRIUS BERKLEY PUPPY TRAINING, IAN DUNBAR and DOGSTARDAILY, they all suggest great ways to inhibit mouthing or biting as its not a good habit to accept, none of them suggest tapping at the dog. good luck.*


----------



## rocco33

Doing anything uncomfortable with your hand is teaching the dog to be hand shy. Doesn't matter whether it's a tap or a hard hit. Some dogs may not react it depends on the temperament of the dog, but it is never acceptable or a good way to train and I'm horrified that people are actually recommending it. They may have gotten away with it, but it is of no benefit whatsoever and IMO is a failure as a trainer if you have to resort to such methods.


----------



## MissShelley

No, I wouldn't because mouthing and chewing is normal development, puppies use their mouths to explore and learn about their environment, as well as chewing when teething...Like with all babies. 

A sharp no, then distract them and give them fun things they can play with. This worked when Max was a puppy, no need to resort to tapping... How do we know it doesn't hurt? - and what would be the point of doing it if it didn't? it's not right end of - their nose is very sensitive


----------



## Starlite

No she will get to a point where she will defend herself as her nose is sensitive, what happens if a child goes to pet her and she thinks its going to hit her nose?

She will react!


----------



## Jodie Grady

my puppy Pomeranian keeps jumping through the fence and walking around where we live. She can easily be taken as she is a pedigree and we are worried so we are trying to teach her not to but a light tap on the nose with 1 finger. We have tried saying no and using a different voice but she doesn't listen. Any other ideas?


----------



## Guest

Jodie Grady said:


> my puppy Pomeranian keeps jumping through the fence and walking around where we live. She can easily be taken as she is a pedigree and we are worried so we are trying to teach her not to but a light tap on the nose with 1 finger. We have tried saying no and using a different voice but she doesn't listen. Any other ideas?


Maybe start a new thread as this is a very old one.
As for teaching your puppy no, why not teach her a recall and keep her on a leash until that recall is reliable?


----------



## BlueJay

Jodie Grady said:


> my puppy Pomeranian keeps jumping through the fence and walking around where we live. She can easily be taken as she is a pedigree and we are worried so we are trying to teach her not to but a light tap on the nose with 1 finger. We have tried saying no and using a different voice but she doesn't listen. Any other ideas?


Holy thread revivial, Batman!

How do you figure tapping her on the nose is going to stop her getting through the fence?


----------



## Jodie Grady

ouesi said:


> Maybe start a new thread as this is a very old one.
> As for teaching your puppy no, why not teach her a recall and keep her on a leash until that recall is reliable?


Sorry about that I just signed up lol. We tried her on a leash tonight and she still jumped through the fence with it on and almost got herself stuck


----------



## Jodie Grady

BlueJay said:


> Holy thread revivial, Batman!
> 
> How do you figure tapping her on the nose is going to stop her getting through the fence?


I haven't done it myself but my dad is very old school. I don't like it when he does it so I'm looking for a new solution


----------



## Blitz

you could try fixing the fence. That would be the best way to stop her. How could tapping her on the nose stop her, I do not understand. And of course she still got through on the lead if you stood close enough to allow her to.


----------



## MiffyMoo

Jodie Grady said:


> Sorry about that I just signed up lol. We tried her on a leash tonight and she still jumped through the fence with it on and almost got herself stuck


As @ouesi said, try teaching her recall. She has absolutely no clue what no means, however many times of voice you use. Personally I wouldn't be very keen on returning if I got reprimanded.

Can you patch up the fence? Why is she still able to get through when on a lead?


----------



## smokeybear

Jodie Grady said:


> my puppy Pomeranian keeps jumping through the fence and walking around where we live. She can easily be taken as she is a pedigree and we are worried so we are trying to teach her not to but a light tap on the nose with 1 finger. We have tried saying no and using a different voice but she doesn't listen. Any other ideas?


Yes, build a better, stronger dog proof fence. Whether your dog is a pedigree or not is irrelevant, she could cause a serious road traffic accident leading to serious injury or life changing injuries or death (not to mention the potential death of your dog). And then your insurance would be invalidated due to your failure to adequately secure your garden. Which means you could lose your house etc in a civil suit.

Why punish a dog for YOUR failures as an owner?


----------



## Jodie Grady

smokeybear said:


> Yes, build a better, stronger dog proof fence. Whether your dog is a pedigree or not is irrelevant, she could cause a serious road traffic accident leading to serious injury or life changing injuries or death (not to mention the potential death of your dog). And then your insurance would be invalidated due to your failure to adequately secure your garden. Which means you could lose your house etc in a civil suit.
> 
> Why punish a dog for YOUR failures as an owner?


It's less like a fence and more like those railing they put around council flats, where she's so small she can just jump through. Any ideas please would be very appreciated


----------



## Jodie Grady

MiffyMoo said:


> As @ouesi said, try teaching her recall. She has absolutely no clue what no means, however many times of voice you use. Personally I wouldn't be very keen on returning if I got reprimanded.
> 
> Can you patch up the fence? Why is she still able to get through when on a lead?


It's what the council puts up around council flats it's easy for her to get through


----------



## Jodie Grady

Blitz said:


> you could try fixing the fence. That would be the best way to stop her. How could tapping her on the nose stop her, I do not understand. And of course she still got through on the lead if you stood close enough to allow her to.


We put her on the lead so we could see how she got through and lucky enough she done it as soon as she went out. It's not one of those fences you can fix its one the council puts up around council houses. It's my first time having a puppy/dog and I don't want to do anything wrong


----------



## smokeybear

Jodie Grady said:


> It's less like a fence and more like those railing they put around council flats, where she's so small she can just jump through. Any ideas please would be very appreciated


http://www.puppybumpers.net/


----------



## MiffyMoo

Jodie Grady said:


> It's what the council puts up around council flats it's easy for her to get through


Could you attach chicken wire to the existing structure? It's relatively cheap and won't be too much of a headache to securely attach


----------



## Jodie Grady

Thank you so much for your help! Have just ordered one and hopefully will stop her from getting through


----------



## Jodie Grady

MiffyMoo said:


> Could you attach chicken wire to the existing structure? It's relatively cheap and won't be too much of a headache to securely attach


We have done that but somehow she gets through, have just ordered a puppy bumper so will try that out and see if it helps thank you so much for you help


----------



## MiffyMoo

Jodie Grady said:


> We have done that but somehow she gets through, have just ordered a puppy bumper so will try that out and see if it helps thank you so much for you help


Good luck. It's such a worry when you're constantly terrified that something could happen to your dog


----------



## Jodie Grady

MiffyMoo said:


> Could you attach chicken wire to the existing structure? It's relatively cheap and won't be too much of a headache to securely attach


We have done that but somehow she gets through, have just ordered a puppy bumper so will try that out and see if it helps thank you so much for you help


MiffyMoo said:


> Good luck. It's such a worry when you're constantly terrified that something could happen to your dog


it is especially when we live so close to main roads but thank you all for your help. Will update you when I have tried it out on her


----------



## newfiesmum

Jodie Grady said:


> my puppy Pomeranian keeps jumping through the fence and walking around where we live. She can easily be taken as she is a pedigree and we are worried so we are trying to teach her not to but a light tap on the nose with 1 finger. We have tried saying no and using a different voice but she doesn't listen. Any other ideas?


It is not that she doesn't listen; it is that she doesn't understand. How do you imagine she is ever going to connect being bonked on the nose to not getting through the fence? My advice would be to mend the bloody fence. You don't get a puppy unless you have a securely fence yard or garden or keep them on a leash.


----------



## Blitz

if you live in a council flat without a securely fenced garden then you will just have to take her out on the lead ALWAYS, not just hope she will not run off. We are thinking of buying a holiday home and the very first job will be to totally dog proof the garden. What is a puppy bumper, how does it stop her getting through fences.


----------



## Moobli

If you are not allowed to make the fencing more secure then the only safe thing to do is to have her on a lead in the garden at all times - or is there room to build a secure puppy pen from which she cannot escape?


----------



## steveshanks

I would just keep her on a long lead in the garden, i'm not sure i like puppy bumpers or would trust one. Are you leaving her in the garden alone?


----------



## steveshanks

Sorry Blitz, its a big doughnut style collar to sort of make the dog wider so she can't get through the gap...Steve

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Puppy-Bump...8&qid=1464595999&sr=8-2&keywords=puppy+bumper


----------



## newfiesmum

steveshanks said:


> Sorry Blitz, its a big doughnut style collar to sort of make the dog wider so she can't get through the gap...Steve
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Puppy-Bump...8&qid=1464595999&sr=8-2&keywords=puppy+bumper


Really? What a daft idea. It's bad enough when they have to wear those Elizabethan collars from the vet.

Thirty years ago, when we had a mongrel who was a serious escape artist, we moved house. We had a huge garden but one side had only conifer trees, no fence. The first thing we did was get the fencing people down but while he was waiting for his concrete posts to set, we put Leo on a long line and attached it to the very large and sturdy rabbit hutch, as there was nothing else to secure it.

Well, ok for a little while then the dog pulled, broke the hutch, rabbit escaped and took off through the trees, the dog chasing him with rabbit hutch attached! Now this hutch was constructed from an old chest of drawers so it was very big. Rabbit and dog were located in next door but one garden, rabbit munching at the lettuce, dog dragging his hutch and destroying the roses. Not the best way to meet the neighbours.

Anyway, just thought I would lighten the mood.


----------



## Blitz

steveshanks said:


> Sorry Blitz, its a big doughnut style collar to sort of make the dog wider so she can't get through the gap...Steve
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Puppy-Bump...8&qid=1464595999&sr=8-2&keywords=puppy+bumper


Thank you. What a weird idea



newfiesmum said:


> Really? What a daft idea. It's bad enough when they have to wear those Elizabethan collars from the vet.
> 
> Thirty years ago, when we had a mongrel who was a serious escape artist, we moved house. We had a huge garden but one side had only conifer trees, no fence. The first thing we did was get the fencing people down but while he was waiting for his concrete posts to set, we put Leo on a long line and attached it to the very large and sturdy rabbit hutch, as there was nothing else to secure it.
> 
> Well, ok for a little while then the dog pulled, broke the hutch, rabbit escaped and took off through the trees, the dog chasing him with rabbit hutch attached! Now this hutch was constructed from an old chest of drawers so it was very big. Rabbit and dog were located in next door but one garden, rabbit munching at the lettuce, dog dragging his hutch and destroying the roses. Not the best way to meet the neighbours.
> 
> Anyway, just thought I would lighten the mood.


oh my goodness. I thought you meant you moved house as a solution to your dog escaping. Hilarious about the dog and the rabbit though doubtless the neighbours were less than amused.


----------



## newfiesmum

Blitz said:


> Thank you. What a weird idea
> 
> oh my goodness. I thought you meant you moved house as a solution to your dog escaping. Hilarious about the dog and the rabbit though doubtless the neighbours were less than amused.


It was quite a posh area as well, so I expect they wondered what on earth was happening. There goes the neighbourhood! We stayed there for 25 years so they must have got used to us!


----------



## Ian R Williams

I have to say, I'm finding this entire thread very frustrating.

First of all, *VIOLENCE *towards any animal is completely wrong and will induce completely the wrong behaviors from them. This is especially important during their developmental phase, as this is where their personality and character will be ingrained for the rest of their lives.

However, the *best *way to train a puppy is to look at the way its mother would react to it.

Most of the time a mother will just yelp and walk away. That is usually enough of a signal.

If it gets worse, she may growl and bear down on the puppy.

If it gets even worse, she may remove or push the puppy out of the way.

As a last resort. she may nip at the puppy. She would certainly never bite or shake the puppy.

So, this is a language that the puppy can understand. Of course, we cannot nip the puppy if it behaves really badly, however I find that a light tap on the nose is a suitable substitution. It doesn't hurt the puppy, rather shocks it into stopping. *Tapping a puppy lightly on the nose is not violence.* So, I would kindly request that people on this thread stop referring to a light tap on the nose as violence.

I very rarely tap my dogs on the nose, but I have done it when things have escalated. Now, I simply have to raise my finger and the dogs know that I mean business. And no, they are not terrified of me. We have cuddles, play and fun all the time. It's just that they know who's the alpha dog.

They also have no doubts about where they sit in the pecking order relative to my other family members. Dogs can notoriously sexist towards women, and the other family members are all petite women. All the women have to do is raise their fingers to remind the dogs that not only are they in charge of that situation, but also that I am the family alpha. It sounds very hierarchical and sexist, but its a reality of pack life I'm afraid!


----------



## mrs phas

this thread is 9 yrs old
many of the posters are no longer active
but just to point out
we are not the pups parent
they know we arent the parent
we shouldnt put things into place that we dont know about
and
whatever you think you know, you dont speak dog, so your communication is only on a basic level
aversive traiining has been proven not to work, in the long run, dogs shut down and you THINK you have solved the problem
but you havent
train your dog in a positive way ( which no, doesnt mean never saying no) and it learns to trust you and want to do what you want
have asked mods to close this. if you wish to open your own thread on the subject, then im sure thats ok and you might get some uptodate opinions


----------

