# Wow Huge Protest in Scotland Against Biased BBC reporting



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

of YES vote . Chanting > " wheres your cameras BBC?" . "Sack Nick 'the liar' Robinson" "Stick your licence up your ar$e lol

Livestream >. 2pm 14th Sep, BBC Bias Protest V on Livestream

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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

or is it large protest in scotland against alleged biased BBC reporting?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

This has been building for months here


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Julesky said:


> This has been building for months here


im sure.........


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> or is it large protest in scotland against alleged biased BBC reporting?


Not at all, they are protesting because coverage IS biased. >> 




And here is the Nick Robinson incident > BBC reporter caught red-handed manipulating video in Scottish indy campaign - 4bitNEWS

Did you see any coverage of the 'Save our NHS' march which took place on the 6th sep? 10,000 people filled Trafalgar Square, some had walked all the way from Newcastle following the same route as the Jarrow march. This is what the beeb didn't want you to see >>






The BBC are notorious now for their biased coverage. They are part of the 'Establishment' & serve it well.



.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Agree with all the above Noush!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Agree with all the above Noush!


The bbc use to be one of our great institutions, sad to think it can no longer be trusted to be impartial

(I bet the atmosphere is electric up your way at the moment Julesky - wish I lived there )

.

,

.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'll just be glad when it's all over, I'm sick to death about hearing about Scotland yes/no if they want to go [email protected]@dy let them.:incazzato:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

The BBC are a disgrace. I've said it on here before and I'll say it again - it's coming to something when Al Jazeera reports more accurately about things that happen in our own country than the BBC does.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> I'll just be glad when it's all over, I'm sick to death about hearing about Scotland yes/no if they want to go [email protected]@dy let them.:incazzato:


Sorry for my countrymen inconveniencing you?

Whatever is decided, this is a major chapter in History for the country and the UK as a whole.

Maybe just avoid threads/press/debate about the 'yes/no', might make you feel less sick


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Noush it is calmly bonkers at the moment.

Plenty of folk in each camp shouting their views! But a lot of love for everyone anyway.

Biggest political shake up we've ever seen the likes of.

We shall see what comes..


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tommy Sheridan laid into the bbc this morning.....on a bbc current affairs programme!.certain aspects of these campaigns are ridiculous.nothing wrong with debate but its getting out of hand.be glad when its all done and dusted.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Sorry for my countrymen inconveniencing you?


The problem isn't the "inconvenience", it's the division it's causing. It's not Scottish vs Scottish as they are nationalistic, it's also fueling anti scottish feeling below the border. Yes, it will be great when it's all over and done with. Hopefully then some healing of the damage caused can begin. Or do you think only the Scottish have nationalistic pride?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Goblin said:


> The problem isn't the "inconvenience", it's the division it's causing. It's not Scottish vs Scottish as they are nationalistic, it's also fueling anti scottish feeling below the border. Yes, it will be great when it's all over and done with. Hopefully then some healing of the damage caused can begin. Or do you think only the Scottish have nationalistic pride?


Ummmmm what the heck are you blethering on about
division?
not scottish vs scottish as we are nationalistic?
Nationalistic pride?

I have no idea what you are trying to say, do you mean between people from other uk countries? From my post I am not quite sure how you derived that i may possibly only think scottish people have nationalistic pride.

Not quite sure there's damage between me and my fellow brits either. Nor between my fellow countrymen (as the country i live in is scotland, it's just an expression, chill your pants)

Quite aggressive for a thread about the BBC. Jeeeezooooo


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Tommy Sheridan laid into the bbc this morning.....on a bbc current affairs programme!.certain aspects of these campaigns are ridiculous.nothing wrong with debate but its getting out of hand.be glad when its all done and dusted.


Tommy Sheridan is a top fool nearly as cringeworhty as gorgeous george


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

So there's no bad feeling between the Yes and No voters within Scotland itself.. Maybe I've only seen that in biased reporting and a couple of people I know personally in Scotland are lying. Maybe I haven't seen in comments spread across a range of media a feeling of resentment building against the scottish as a direct result of this referendum. 

If you can't see it, you obviously aren't paying attention or dismissing it as it's not convenient 

The sooner the referendum is over, the sooner people can join together to do whatever is best in the circumstances. Darling has already stated on a yes vote he will do whatever he can to make it work. Salmond of course declined to answer the same question if No was the result.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Tommy Sheridan is a top fool nearly as cringeworhty as gorgeous george


 think he forgot he was in the bbc studios! if indy goes through we probably wont have bbc!.....sbc. liked George being the cat on cbb though!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Goblin said:


> So there's no bad feeling between the Yes and No voters within Scotland itself.. Maybe I've only seen that in biased reporting and a couple of people I know personally in Scotland are lying. Maybe I haven't seen in comments spread across a range of media a feeling of resentment building against the scottish as a direct result of this referendum.
> 
> If you can't see it, you obviously aren't paying attention or dismissing it as it's not convenient


Hmmmm.. well in my various social circles and family there are splits of vote, plenty yes and plenty no

No one has disowned anyone, there has been spirited debate but everyone respects each others right to an opinion.

Huge crowd in city centre, both sides singing , 'it doesn't matter if you're no/yes we still love you' at each other.

Course this wasn't documented/ reported. hate is a much better pill to swallow.

The only people hating are people who lean towards hate anyway.

Resentment towards the Scottish for the referendum… hmmm, not been on here much, but wouldn't be surprised how the daily fail etc. are spinning it to get yet another demographic 'hated', I think it is a poor show that the other UK constituents have not been given any power in this decision, but I'm not a political figure or rule maker.

Maybe as stated before, people who lean towards hate and division will always see a reason for it.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Goblin,

With all due respect, chill out. It's never as bad as the media make it out.

We are not Ireland/Northern Ireland. The majority regardless what they are voting are a peace loving bunch. We will not become NI after the vote, regardless. No chance.It's just not in the country's psyche.

Not quite sure why your average other Uk citizen would feel a division from the Scottish, but well there you have it.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Me and o/h disagree and are voting yes and no, I,ve won every debate we,ve had(usually because he,s been on the swally!).wonder if the bbc could be losing revenue in the event of a yes vote?.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Me and o/h disagree and are voting yes and no, I,ve won every debate we,ve had(usually because he,s been on the swally!).wonder if the bbc could be losing revenue in the event of a yes vote?.


Hahahah watch out, before you know it headlines will be INDYREF Homewrecking! Couples and people found to have different opinions shocker!!!!

I just think the BBC has always had political undertones, as do most media outlets depending on their economics and contacts, it's just a sin the BBC pretends it is neutral. It is not.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Hahahah watch out, before you know it headlines will be INDYREF Homewrecking! Couples and people found to have different opinions shocker!!!!
> 
> I just think the BBC has always had political undertones, as do most media outlets depending on their economics and contacts, it's just a sin the BBC pretends it is neutral. It is not.


 well jules rangers have banned them from interview due to alleged bias reporting......this time next week I might need a Scottish passport,british one will probably explode!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Julesky said:


> With all due respect, chill out. It's never as bad as the media make it out.


Actually it's not simply from the media as you seem to be claiming.. also know a few people currently in Scotland as already mentioned  It's not all singing, dancing and holding hands.

I also well know about Ireland and NI having visited there several times. In fact I had a brother live in Northern Ireland next to shankill road for several years. I've seen the "public face" as well as what is sometimes hidden behind it. I've also seen, even on this forum, the same hidden feelings between Scot and Englishman.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Our boy is studying and living in Dundee, so we are very interested in the referendum. Not to mention how a yes vote would affect English students studying in Scotland? I would say they become EU students, but if the Scottish become independant would that also mean they are independant of being a member of the EU? I suppose Abertay would advise if the vote is yes.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Actually it's not simply from the media as you seem to be claiming.. also know a few people currently in Scotland as already mentioned  It's not all singing, dancing and holding hands.
> 
> I also well know about Ireland and NI having visited there several times. In fact I had a brother live in Northern Ireland next to shankill road for several years. I've seen the "public face" as well as what is sometimes hidden behind it. I've also seen, even on this forum, the same hidden feelings between Scot and Englishman.


 I think you,re referring to a poster who is no longer with us!.i have noticed no hidden feeling,dont even think of nationality when posting.a few incidents have occurred that have been well highlighted in the media affecting both sides.i come from English parents,so wont be falling out with anyone.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I think the saying the EU up for debate is applicable. Different lawyers have their own opinion of the Scotland/EU issue. No idea of "court" decision or where a legal decision would eventually be made. EU politicians do not want an independent Scotland joining the EU. Sets too much of a precedent for the wealthiest part of Spain as one reasoning. It's up in the air, not the done deal certain politicians make it out to be. New members of the EU have to adopt the Euro which is another potential problem although the argument would be it's not a new member..


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> I think you,re referring to a poster who is no longer with us!.i have noticed no hidden feeling,dont even think of nationality when posting.a few incidents have occurred that have been well highlighted in the media affecting both sides.i come from English parents,*so wont be falling out with anyone.*


Exactly, neither will the vast majority of people.

Goblin, knowing a few people is not the same as living in the country and being brought up here.

There is always undercurrents of division directed between many sectors of society.

Maybe there have been on this forum.

Only one really bringing it up and talking about it is you.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> Our boy is studying and living in Dundee, so we are very interested in the referendum. Not to mention how a yes vote would affect English students studying in Scotland? I would say they become EU students, but if the Scottish become independant would that also mean they are independant of being a member of the EU? I suppose Abertay would advise if the vote is yes.


Hmm interesting one indeed. Have they made a statement yet? I guess they don't know, needless to say I doubt it would affect his studies or quality of. At least i hope not!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Back on track of thread though

This is just one of many bias being discussed re: BBC

Wings Over Scotland | And then my heart went boom


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Hmm interesting one indeed. Have they made a statement yet? I guess they don't know, needless to say I doubt it would affect his studies or quality of. At least i hope not!


No, not from what I can see. I suppose Luke would know more about it. I hope it doesn't affect his studies, can't see it would. I'm wondering if they would need a visa or something.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> No, not from what I can see. I suppose Luke would know more about it. I hope it doesn't affect his studies, can't see it would. I'm wondering if they would need a visa or something.


Gosh I hope not, probs will protect the rights of people who started stuff before the referendum in that event.

Decision made to study here before it so should not have to suffer as consequence? who knows!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Goblin, knowing a few people is not the same as living in the country and being brought up here..


Knowing people who live and have been brought up there is the same as listening to you living there and being brought up there isn't it?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Knowing people who live and have been brought up there is the same as listening to you living there and being brought up there isn't it?


Yip. Touche.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

I am a better source though for the good people of PF 

hahahahha

Get yer pals on, we'll all have a chat about how it is where they are


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Off topic slightly but:

Meanwhile in the Senedd 



Wishing Scotland the best outcome for their country whatever they decide that is.

Back on topic - I can't say I watch the BBC all that much so can't comment on whether or not they show bias. It is however pretty sad if they can't report with the views of both sides of this debate.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catpud said:


> Off topic slightly but:
> 
> Meanwhile in the Senedd
> 
> ...


Catpud… where are these piccies from?

Thanks for your good wishes!


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Catpud where are these piccies from?
> 
> Thanks for your good wishes!


Should have referenced them really - these are from Plaid Cymru - popped up on my news a day or two ago


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Just found an article with them in - couldn't find it on the Plaid website but if you are interested in what the gathering was about.....

'Go for it': Hundreds gather at Cardiff Bay rally to support Scottish Independence - Wales Online


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> The sooner the referendum is over, the sooner people can join together to do whatever is best in the circumstances. Darling has already stated on a yes vote he will do whatever he can to make it work. Salmond of course declined to answer the same question if No was the result.


You have got that COMPLETELY the wrong way round! During the second live debate on STV between Salmond and Darling, Salmond invited Darling to help create a new Scotland in the event of a YES vote, and Darling just sneered and refused to answer the invitation.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Not at all, they are protesting because coverage IS biased. >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yet i spend just as much time on a politics forum with a bunch of people regularly moaning about the left wing liberal politically correct BBC!

go figure

they are part of the establishment though, but thats the LibLabCon establishment


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Presumably after a yes vote residents of Scotland will no longer have to pay a license fee and will only be allowed to watch BBC Worldwide ?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> Presumably after a yes vote residents of Scotland will no longer have to pay a license fee and will only be allowed to watch BBC Worldwide ?


Who knows presumably they'll just buy the rights for shows and stuff the same as every network does.

Gutted. Love Bake off


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Love Bake off


The new show will be "Fry Off" :nono:


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

diefenbaker said:


> Presumably after a yes vote residents of Scotland will no longer have to pay a license fee and will only be allowed to watch BBC Worldwide ?


im in england and i already legally watch the BBC without a licence fee. easy


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Gosh I hope not, probs will protect the rights of people who started stuff before the referendum in that event.
> 
> Decision made to study here before it so should not have to suffer as consequence? who knows!


I hope so, we shall see


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> im in england and i already legally watch the BBC without a licence fee. easy


Would you like to explain how you do that?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> The new show will be "Fry Off" :nono:


On today's show, wee jeanie crankie will attempt to cook the elusive triple whammy: haggis cooked inside a black pudding coated in a crumb of chips.

Can't wait.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Would you like to explain how you do that?


You watch in iPlayer catchup mode only.

BBC iPlayer Help - TV Licence - Using BBC iPlayer


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Would you like to explain how you do that?


catchup services (iplayers)


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Julesky said:


> Who knows presumably they'll just buy the rights for shows and stuff the same as every network does.
> 
> Gutted. Love Bake off


This is what happens, so do not worry!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Noush it is calmly bonkers at the moment.
> 
> Plenty of folk in each camp shouting their views! But a lot of love for everyone anyway.
> 
> ...


I'm so jealous that I'm not part of it

Its a great country with great people, I wish you all the very best whatever the outcome  And whatever that may be I just hope it gives Westminster a kick up the ar$e they need! lol



Tails and Trails said:


> yet i spend just as much time on a politics forum with a bunch of people regularly moaning about the left wing liberal politically correct BBC!
> 
> go figure
> 
> they are part of the establishment though, but thats the LibLabCon establishment


Well those on the right would say that wouldn't they? lol

Why left-wing bias at the BBC is a myth

Owen Jones on the BBC's pro-establishment bias - Newsnight -

[youtube_browser]/MLhbPvVHGvs[/youtube_browser]

.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Cheers Noush,

I'm sure we'll be grand whatever happens. And yes, hopefully all the dialogue has shown in a good way how unsettled the whole UK is.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Well those on the right would say that wouldn't they? lol
> 
> Why left-wing bias at the BBC is a myth
> 
> ...


Well, those on the left would say that wouldn't they? lol

Why right-wing bias at the BBC is a myth

owen jones is correct about the BBC's pro-establishment bias - they are well tied in with the LibLabCon 'left-right' corrupt and insular westminster/celebrity establishment elite, full of greed, cronyism, gratification, masons, and pedophile rings


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> Well, those on the left would say that wouldn't they? lol
> 
> Why right-wing bias at the BBC is a myth
> 
> owen jones is correct about the BBC's pro-establishment bias - they are well tied in with the LibLabCon 'left-right' corrupt and insular westminster/celebrity establishment elite, full of greed, cronyism, gratification, masons, and pedophile rings


Yes they would & they have research to support them. Did you hear Owen on the Cardiff university study? Any studies to support your argument?

The beebs coverage of climate change is proof in itself it has a right wing agenda >> BBC coverage of IPCC climate report criticised for sceptics' airtime | Environment | The Guardian

Owen Jones is correct about a lot of things, that being one of them. Hope Scotland will bring about the catalyst of change for us all.

,


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Yes they would & they have research to support them. Did you hear Owen on the Cardiff university study? Any studies to support your argument?
> 
> The beebs coverage of climate change is proof in itself it has a right wing agenda >> BBC coverage of IPCC climate report criticised for sceptics' airtime | Environment | The Guardian
> 
> ...


Same sort of stuff the tories and right wingers say on the other forum

They usually throw up a couple links to demonstrate their stated BBC left wing bias too...the latest was all the left wing pro hamas anti israeli bias, apparently.

But anyone can grab a couple odd shows from the beeb or articles from the odd paper and claim it represents a general political ideology of the whole station.

I dont take any of you guys seriously, you all have your agendas, you are all part of the same left-wing-right wing old fashioned decayed and corrupt establishment anyway. Left wing and right wing is so stupid anyway.

And i dont need any studies, i dont think the BBC is biased against anyone, except the intelligent viewer that pays their wages. So the only thing wrong with the BBC is it does a crap job of reporting the news in general, isnt worthy of a licence fee, which should be abolished....and i like taxes, just not pointless ones...and is full of old crony establishment figures part of the same corrupt pedophile cabal as westminster politicians

quite like owen patterson though

im just popping over to politics uk forum to disagree with a couple of tories over their silly whom are always going on about their fabled left wing BBC.... 
will be back in a minute


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> Same sort of stuff the tories and right wingers say on the other forum
> 
> They usually throw up a couple links to demonstrate their stated BBC left wing bias too...the latest was all the left wing pro hamas anti israeli bias, apparently.
> 
> ...


Don't hurry back. Please use up your energy on the Politics UK Forum rather than on here, deliberately trying to get a reaction.

I've read a number of your posts over the last week and you're clearly just stirring.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> Same sort of stuff the tories and right wingers say on the other forum
> 
> They usually throw up a couple links to demonstrate their stated BBC left wing bias too...the latest was all the left wing pro hamas anti israeli bias, apparently.
> 
> ...


Please send the links for me to have a look at then? Of course the bbc is not bias to the right. I mean ex chairman Chris Patten is a former Conservative cabinet minister. Andrew Neil is openly right-wing. And Andrew Marr and former national Young Conservatives chairman Nick Robinson are two of BBC TVs other leading political broadcasters.

You like Paterson?? Jeezus The man is ultra right wing, anti science, an environmental vandal, a climate change denier. He is totally corrupt & morally bankrupt!. His legacy - the badger cull.

.

.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

time everyone stopped paying license fees then we can get rid of the bbc. I'm doing my bit.


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## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Not at all, they are protesting because coverage IS biased.
> 
> And here is the Nick Robinson incident > BBC reporter caught red-handed manipulating video in Scottish indy campaign - 4bitNEWS.


I've not paid much attention to the supposed bias, but that's a pretty disingenuous bit of reporting by the BBC.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> Our boy is studying and living in Dundee, so we are very interested in the referendum. Not to mention how a yes vote would affect English students studying in Scotland? I would say they become EU students, but if the Scottish become independant would that also mean they are independant of being a member of the EU? I suppose Abertay would advise if the vote is yes.


If Scotland votes 'yes' it will not happen immediately, it will take several years for the separation to go through. There will be a specific date for full independence in the same way there was a set date when Hong Kong was given back to China. Everyone knew it was happening long before it did.

I reckon Luke will be well finished with his studies before it affects him Shelley. 

And anyone saying the BBC is not biased needs to get their head out of their hearse and waken up. EVERY news station on tv and EVERY newspaper has their own political slant dependent on the leanings of the man at the top. If the owner or CEO is good mates with Cameron, it will lean heavily in favouring the tories, if the owner / CEO is old school chums with Milliband the reporting will favour Labour policies.

This is why you can watch / read news articles on different channels / papers and be left wondering if the same incident is being discussed. :blink:

.


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

The polls across the media are saying it is neck and neck between YES and NO'.... But the Scottish people know otherwise. Scotland WILL win Independence


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> The polls across the media are saying it is neck and neck between YES and NO'.... But the Scottish people know otherwise. Scotland WILL win Independence


So nice of you to come back...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

jon bda said:


> So nice of you to come back...


Glad it's not only me who was thinking that.

A couple of new members who seem to be trying to push a political agenda.


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

This picture is pretty much succinct!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> This picture is pretty much succinct!


I'm sure that works better on facebook...


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> The polls across the media are saying it is neck and neck between YES and NO'.... But the Scottish people know otherwise. Scotland WILL win Independence


 possibly,remember though that not all people want it.each and everybody to their own.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

jon bda said:


> So nice of you to come back...


 BeCause she missed those circles in the sand eh?


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> BeCause she missed those circles in the sand eh?


We'll be told to keep a light on next as Scotland is a heaven is on earth!!! 

.


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> possibly,remember though that not all people want it.each and everybody to their own.


The REAL polls are saying the majority want an iScotland.  Majority rules.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> We'll be told to keep a light on next as Scotland is a heaven is on earth!!!
> 
> .


hahaha:lol::lol::lol:..we want the same thing?....don't we?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> The REAL polls are saying the majority want an iScotland.  Majority rules.


 hells BELls.dam keyboard playing up,what about people in Carlisle?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> hells BELls.dam keyboard playing up,what about people in Carlisle?


LOL. Apparently, those in Carlisle aren't noted for their subtlety. 

I love a challenge, but some people are just too transparent.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> hells BELls.dam keyboard playing up,what about people in Carlisle?


Ahhhh now Carlise is a big political hot potato!!! It has been dragged over the border more times than Belinda has had sliced bread. She feels weak at the thought of that.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> Ahhhh now Carlise is a big political hot potato!!! It has been dragged over the border more times than Belinda has had sliced bread. She feels weak at the thought of that.


Oh, I think you're right.

Poor Belinda. All of these political issues to contend with and having to be involved in Sir Cliffgate too, for Heaven's Sake.

I do hope she isn't too weak, like weak enough to just shut the you know what up and go away. :smile:


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Please send the links for me to have a look at then? Of course the bbc is not bias to the right. I mean ex chairman Chris Patten is a former Conservative cabinet minister. Andrew Neil is openly right-wing. And Andrew Marr and former national Young Conservatives chairman Nick Robinson are two of BBC TVs other leading political broadcasters.
> 
> You like Paterson?? Jeezus The man is ultra right wing, anti science, an environmental vandal, a climate change denier. He is totally corrupt & morally bankrupt!. His legacy - the badger cull.
> 
> .


meant that owen jones chap from your vid, sorry, my error, wrong surname.

the rest doesnt mean anything to me
was being serious when i said i am also on the politics site at the same time strongly disagreeing with a bunch of tories moaning about the BBC being left wing bias

i dont see the difference between this discussion and that, tbh. the whole right wing-left wing thing is bogus anyway, its all just the old establishment speaking.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

moggy b ave told you....live your life be free,i get weak telling you this aw the time


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Tommy Sheridan is a top fool nearly as cringeworhty as gorgeous george


The wrestler?


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Tails and Trails said:


> meant that owen jones chap from your vid, sorry, my error, wrong surname.
> 
> the rest doesnt mean anything to me
> was being serious when i said i am also on the politics site at the same time strongly disagreeing with a bunch of tories moaning about the BBC being left wing bias
> ...


I am curious, are you a Marxist?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> meant that owen jones chap from your vid, sorry, my error, wrong surname.
> 
> the rest doesnt mean anything to me
> was being serious when i said i am also on the politics site at the same time strongly disagreeing with a bunch of tories moaning about the BBC being left wing bias
> ...


 wow! you have just dropped a bag of words!....what does this all mean?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Don't hurry back. Please use up your energy on the Politics UK Forum rather than on here, deliberately trying to get a reaction.
> 
> I've read a number of your posts over the last week and you're clearly just stirring.


yes, had noticed the extra attention you had been giving me


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> meant that owen jones chap from your vid, sorry, my error, wrong surname.
> 
> the rest doesnt mean anything to me
> was being serious when i said i am also on the politics site at the same time strongly disagreeing with a bunch of tories moaning about the BBC being left wing bias
> ...


If none of it means anything to you, why are you arguing about it?


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> moggy b ave told you....live your life be free,i get weak telling you this aw the time


I am as free as the summer rain MD. 

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> wow! you have just dropped a bag of words!....what does this all mean?


i did yes 

which bit interests you?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> I am curious, are you a Marxist?


no way!


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Tails and Trails said:


> no way!


Ha, okay... just wondered.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Hopefully Scotland will vote yes and Hadrians wall can be rebuilt to keep England safe again, UK Border control can check visa applications and we will see repatriations of coachloads of kilt wearing, haggis eating, bagpipe playing Scots back to the homelands...


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> I am as free as the summer rain MD.
> 
> .


 now you sound like LA lUNAtic :crazy:


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i did yes
> 
> which bit interests you?


 that . at the end?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> If none of it means anything to you, why are you arguing about it?


post 55, page 6


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> Ha, okay... just wondered.


no worries. marxism/capitalism, same coin, different sides. throw away the coin, the coin is bad


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Dunno why people cant just live their lives and be free...

I know not everyone feels how I feel, so no point in asking them if they do really. Half the world may have the same views, but the other half, maybe not 

I get weak when I read some of these comments, but then I feel the magic and am OK again.

As long as they don't deport me bestie I'll be OK


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> no worries. marxism/capitalism, same coin, different sides. throw away the coin, the coin is bad


Such wisdom is awe inspiring.

(Toddles off to try and be awe inspired).

Why do I keep seeing images of goats? :


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Such wisdom is awe inspiring.
> 
> (Toddles off to try and be awe inspired).
> 
> Why do I keep seeing images of goats? :


the ignore button helps with that sort of thing, apparently?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> no worries. marxism/capitalism, same coin, different sides. throw away the coin, the coin is bad


 what coin will that be? Scottish lira?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> what coin will that be? Scottish lira?


nice one :tongue_smilie:


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Dunno why people cant just live their lives and be free...
> 
> I know not everyone feels how I feel, so no point in asking them if they do really. Half the world may have the same views, but the other half, maybe not
> 
> ...


 mcwillow wondsworth...


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> mcwillow wondsworth...


i can tap her vibe, used to live where she does


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Well this threads taken an unexpected turn lol



Tails and Trails said:


> meant that owen jones chap from your vid, sorry, my error, wrong surname.
> 
> the rest doesnt mean anything to me
> was being serious when i said i am also on the politics site at the same time strongly disagreeing with a bunch of tories moaning about the BBC being left wing bias
> ...


I like that Owen too - so that one thing we have in common at least

As I said, I would love to see this evidence they are posting on the politics site to back up their claims?

The Green Party is labelled left wing - they are most certainly not part of the 'establishment'.

but talking of The Establishment & Owen Jones - did you know he has a book out on the subject? - I've just ordered it, its getting rave reviews - should be an interesting read:tongue_smilie:

,


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i can tap her vibe, used to live where she does


 full moon tonight eh?.mcwillow has a vibe that can be tapped?....how does one do this?.mcwillow lives in carstairs?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> full moon tonight eh?.mcwillow has a vibe that can be tapped?....how does one do this?.mcwillow lives in carstairs?


no, mcwillow is the kiwi one, right??


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> full moon tonight eh?.mcwillow has a vibe that can be tapped?....how does one do this?.*mcwillow lives in carstairs*?


Don't live in me car, and I don't have stairs 

Good to know I have a vibe though.... I feel the magic


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Don't live in me car, and I don't have stairs
> 
> Good to know I have a vibe though.... I feel the magic


 yip me too...jaws aching with laughter! night all!


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Well this threads taken an unexpected turn lol
> 
> I like that Owen too - so that one thing we have in common at least
> 
> ...


he pops up on jeremy vine every now and then, good mind.

cheers for tip on book. interesting though if he just terms 'establishment' thru vested left wing prism though

i dont think greens are establishment, but would call them part of the left-right establishment axis as they do take some trad left social ideas and did sell out to the EU model, but also post left-right in terms of the left-right social-economic production/globalisation/economic growth/credit system consensus


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> no, mcwillow is the kiwi one, right??


 this mcwillow wondsworth is very cunning....I believed she was a scot,er british em one ay us!...she listens to Belinda Carlisle songs all day long .


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> this mcwillow wondsworth is very cunning....I believed she was a scot,er british em one ay us!...she listens to Belinda Carlisle songs all day long .


whoops. so she aint the kiwi one? isnt the kiwi one called 'mc' something?

i grew up in new zealand. her post had a bit of the kiwi vibe to it as well

but you say its belinda carlisle that gives her a good vibe then? dont know her music - 80s pop star?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> he pops up on jeremy vine every now and then, good mind.
> 
> cheers for tip on book. interesting though if he just terms 'establishment' thru vested left wing prism though
> 
> i dont think greens are establishment, but would call them part of the left-right establishment axis as they do take some trad left social ideas and did sell out to the EU model, but also post left-right in terms of the left-right social-economic production/globalisation/economic growth/credit system consensus


Of course he is a socialist , but he is extremely critical of the labour party. Havent read the book so cant give a review on it. This is what its about though>> Book review: The Establishment: And how they get away with it â€" Owen Jones (2014) - Blue and Green Tomorrow

Left wing politics is more concerned with care for the environment. The Green party is the only true democratic party imo, they would give the public the vote on the EU - and unlike the 3 main parties + ukip they are fighting against the TTIP agreement. London Green Party | London Greens say no to secret TTIP trade deal

By coincidence, Owen Jones column today is an expose on the TTIP - I may as well link to it lol Everyone should read it, people need to know about this, because if we don't stop them signing it we can wave bye bye to our NHS, our environment & anything else they can get their greedy paws on - including our democracy!

The TTIP deal hands British sovereignty to multinationals | Owen Jones | Comment is free | The Guardian

.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> whoops. so she aint the kiwi one? isnt the kiwi one called 'mc' something?
> 
> i grew up in new zealand. her post had a bit of the kiwi vibe to it as well
> 
> but you say its belinda carlisle that gives her a good vibe then? dont know her music - 80s pop star?


She is an 80's pop star. My oh use to have a big crush on her 

.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> no, mcwillow is the kiwi one, right??


Nope, I'm not a kiwi! In fact I am even allergic to kiwi fruit Couldnt have me fave pudding yesterday coz there was a slice of kiwi on it :crying:


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Everyone should read it, people need to know about this, because *if we don't stop them signing it* we can wave bye bye to our NHS, our environment & anything else they can get their greedy paws on - including our democracy!


There is no way we CAN stop them (no non-violent way anyway) so whats the point in reading it?

what we gonna do, all sign another peition that they'll ignore? have a peaceful protest that they will ignore? waste of time.

Theres only one way to get our power back, and thats to actually TAKE it back.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Scottish independence: Crowd protests against 'BBC bias'

BBC News - Scottish independence: Crowd protests against 'BBC bias'


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

*A letter to us Scots from a lovely enlightened Englishman, we are leading the way to enlightenment by "fighting back" against a corrupt system:*

Dear Scotland,

In Douglas Adams' book "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy", all the dolphins leave earth just before it is annihilated. Their parting message to the humans: "So long, and thanks for all the fish".

I think that's pretty apt for our current situation.

Scotland, we are on the road to ruin here. It's really time for you to run, and save yourselves.

As we all know, there are more panda bears in Scotland than Tory MPs - yet you have endured the Tory-led coalition along with us. This seems enormously unfair - as a nation, you have roundly rejected the principles not only of conservatism, but neoliberalism full stop. This was seen in your rejection of New Labour for the SNP.

It seems patently clear to any observer with half a wit that you are at heart a social democracy. Your population rally together en masse to vote for social democrats, and reject political parties who fail to live up to social democratic principles.

This puts Scotland both geographically and politically alongside Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Iceland. Small nations whose ambitions are not about some expression of geo-political might, but instead creating a prosperous, democratic, egalitarian and equal society at home.

These are nations that grant individuals and enterprises the freedom to offer goods and services - but not gamble with the fundamentals on which its citizens and economy rely; health, education, shelter, energy, water and so on.

And because the success of such nations is so dangerous to those who promote the opposite - they tell you its impossible for you to achieve.

Scotland, you are showing us the way right now.

The apparent and growing majority of you willing to "Vote Yes" and make a stand for democracy are doing so in the face a "Better Together" mainstream media that has thrown everything at terrifying you into a No vote.

They say you're too small to do it on your own, despite your economy being £2,300 richer per person than the rest of the UK, outstripping that of Japan, Italy and even France.

They say that once you leave, you'll be gobbled up by speculators and corporations. Yet, Iceland, with a population of just 300,000 was able to repel the debt merchants of the US, UK and western world in order to ensure that bankers, not tax payers footed the bill for the Financial Crisis. Scottish taxpayers shackled to the Westminster political system suffered the opposite. The executives who caused the crisis made off with bonuses, pensions and a life of luxury - while the public faced ideological austerity.

They say that if you leave, you can't have the pound. To hell with the pound. Create your own currency, call it the Macarena for all I care, you have it within you.

You've even got all three party leaders up there making nice, an impending war in Iraq and a Royal Baby thrown in for good measure.

In the face of all that, you continued to vote Yes.

So now, they've upped the ante.

After many of you have already cast your vote, Westminster is changing the rules of the game - making promises we know they will not keep. Even if they did, it wouldn't be enough, because they cannot promise you that to which they are ideologically opposed. They cannot promise to become social democrats, and they will not, as they have not, allow Scotland to become a social democracy within the UK.

If you want the power to fulfill your social democratic aspirations, you must become a free and independent nation. That is what the Yes campaign understands.

Now, some down here in England are taking all this very personally. They feel a sense of rejection or abandonment. Some even go so far as to argue we shouldn't support Scottish Independence because we'll be left with a Tory majority.

Well England, that's OUR problem. We must address the flaws in our own voting system and levels of political awareness and engagement ourselves. In fact, the exposure of these issues by Scotland's secession may well force us to confront this issue in a more urgent, earnest way. But bottom line, that is not a matter for Scotland.

Your nation is on the verge of a truly revolutionary event. You have created for yourselves, the opportunity to transform your country socially, politically and economically, into something that expresses the will of your people.

It's not about a flag, a national anthem, or a currency - it's about the ability to make the decisions that shape your individual and collective futures.

That is something for which it is worthy of making a stand.

If we English want the same - it's on us to put the work in to achieve it. Your lesson is something from which we should be taking deep comfort and inspiration.

I sincerely hope that come the 18th of September, a new era begins for an independent Scotland.

Let it signal "game on!" for an independent England - free from austerity, free from inequality, free from crony capitalism.

It's time for Scotland to say: "So long, and thanks for all the fish".


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Vivienne Westwood had ALL her models wear YES badges going down the catwalk, and said yesterday at her Fashion show:

*Guests at her show this afternoon found a small statement printed on each of their seats, explaining her views on the impending referendum. 
'I am so excited. Fingers crossed they will win. Because if they do, it could be the turning point towards a better world. 
'They could lead by example,' it read.*

Read more: Tartan-loving designer Vivienne Westwood pledges support of Yes campaign for Scottish independence after slamming unionists as 'frightened and stupid' | Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Sorry for my countrymen inconveniencing you?
> 
> Whatever is decided, this is a major chapter in History for the country and the UK as a whole.
> 
> Maybe just avoid threads/press/debate about the 'yes/no', might make you feel less sick


It's just that the TV are ramming it down out throats, it not as if the rest of Great Britain can do anything about it.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

On Saturday afternoon I passed through the beautiful little town of Cullen. We usually stop here for ice cream. Cullen is set in just about the most beautiful place ever. Its gorgeous.

There were some fairly middle age to older people at the side of the road with the purple No stand. It was quiet...I think its always quiet in Cullen. They had balloons and flags and bits and pieces on their table.My grandson saw the balloons and wanted one so when my daughter took him to get an ice cream, she asked for a balloon for him. Some people drove past in a car and started honking their horns and shouting and the passenger actually spit out of the window. Nice!

One of the women told my daughter that they were surprised at this behavior but it had been going on all day with different car drivers. Sad.

Getting totally sick of all this Yes/No stuff...wondering too how much money has been spent on this so called campaign and how much better use it could have been put to.

I don't think I ever heard anybody going round being abusive in cars etc when we have a simple election...very sad that we have these yob elements who think that bullying tactics will make a difference.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

scottydog999 said:


> Vivienne Westwood had ALL her models wear YES badges going down the catwalk, and said yesterday at her Fashion show:
> 
> *Guests at her show this afternoon found a small statement printed on each of their seats, explaining her views on the impending referendum.
> 'I am so excited. Fingers crossed they will win. Because if they do, it could be the turning point towards a better world.
> ...


Vivienne Westwood? A wacky fashion designer????


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> Vivienne Westwood? A wacky fashion designer????


Her words carry more weight than a wacky PF member 

Her words resounded with the Scottish people, we "lead by example" against a corrupt system/government. That surely can't be a bad thing?

The scenes in Glasgow yesterday, outside BBC Glasgow was a prime example of "we are not taking the lies and manipulation any longer".


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> It's just that the TV are ramming it down out throats, it not as if the rest of Great Britain can do anything about it.


thats not true. the news is doing the right thing, reporting upon a momentous event. there are a heck of a lot of channels also showing reality tv as well, if that helps.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

MCWillow said:


> Nope, I'm not a kiwi! In fact I am even allergic to kiwi fruit Couldnt have me fave pudding yesterday coz there was a slice of kiwi on it :crying:


i have since worked out i got you mixed up with McKenzie


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Tails and Trails said:


> thats not true. the news is doing the right thing, reporting upon a momentous event. there are a heck of a lot of channels also showing reality tv as well, if that helps.


Exactly! Some people eh? 

History in the making, and some people are not interested.....

Explains why for decades the British people have been sleepwalking into disaster via corrupt governments and media, the public's eyes were off the ball (probably too busy on forums discussing "what's for tea" and watching Eastenders).

They are just "not interested" enough to watch and realise, and make any effort towards change!  Hopefully now, other nations will take Scotland's lead!


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Nice try BC


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Good luck to the Scottish people whichever way the vote goes.

With the intervention of our corrupt bunch suspect Yes is more likely now, can't help wondering if its all been a double bluff by the Westminster crowd. The latest circus of offering the world if the vote is No just shows what a deceiptful, underhand vile lot they are. 

Cameron didn't allow the alternative option of De-Vo max to be part of the vote, now all of a sudden throwing lord knows what at Scotland - without asking the rest of the UK! Because of this I feel a No vote would now be an utter disaster for the whole of the UK and cuase huge divisions - bad feeling from the English as they have had no voice just have to pay for it, very bad feeling from the Scottish when you realise its just another big fat lie that will not come off


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> Vivienne Westwood had ALL her models wear YES badges going down the catwalk, and said yesterday at her Fashion show:


Does she live or work in Scotland? Is she Scottish? Has she investments in Scotland? Think you'll find all those answers are No.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Does she live or work in Scotland? Is she Scottish? Has she investments in Scotland? Think you'll find all those answers are No.


Neither do you, but you speak like an authority on Scottish Independence (whilst you live in GERMANY).

You didn't reply to my first post on this thread Goblin.........


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> thats not true. *the news is doing the right thing, reporting upon a momentous event. *there are a heck of a lot of channels also showing reality tv as well, if that helps.


I still don't think we needed it 24 hrs a day. On the hour for an update, then they should leave it alone for a while.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> Neither do you, but you speak like an authority on Scottish Independence (whilst you live in GERMANY).


I'm discussing on a forum I've been a member of for quite a long time, with people as individuals. Not a "celebrity" with potential influence. How do you know what relationships I have with Scotland?



> You didn't reply to my first post on this thread Goblin.........


Well at least your first post was easily found, you've only joined for this thread which indicates why you are here.

[youtube_browser]33Z9l-rWgfA[/youtube_browser]
1:20 Darling.. whatever the result we need to work together.. Salmond.. When people vote yes. No mention of what happens on a No vote.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> I'm discussing on a forum I've been a member of for quite a long time, with people as individuals. Not a "celebrity" with potential influence. How do you know what relationships I have with Scotland?
> 
> Well at least your first post was easily found, you've only joined for this thread which indicates why you are here.
> 
> ...


You are wrong Gobiln, further along in the debate (from 1hr 21min to 1hr 23min), Salmond does say he wants to work together for the betterment of our country, and flat out asked Darling to be part of the decision making in an iScotland if a YES vote prevailed, and Darling sneered and laughed at him, and refused to answer Alex's invitation.
I LIVE in Scotland, I have watched ALL the debates, I LIVE my life in Scotland, so I am far better placed to know exactly what is going on here.

People living in other countries, watching bias media to form their opinions is just laughable unfortunately!People in Scotland are better placed to speak of what exactly is going on, and the HUGE ground swell of YES's.

The swell is due to people who haven't got a clue about real life in Scotland telling us what we should do! Hence cementing a YES victory.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> I LIVE my life in Scotland, so I am far better placed to know exactly what is going on here.


Just cause you live in scotland that doesnt mean you have any idea about whats really going on behind politicians lies. Living in scotland means you are better placed to know exactly what the weather is like, but it doesnt mean your better placed to understand a politicians real agenda.

if a north korean told you everything was great in their country would you say "well you live there and i dont so you must be right?"

also, while people outside scotland may be influenced by biased media it is also true that people in scotland can be interested by biased media. just because the bias is different doesnt mean it's not biased.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

porps said:


> Just cause you live in scotland that doesnt mean you have any idea about whats really going on behind politicians lies. Living in scotland means you are better placed to know exactly what the weather is like, but it doesnt mean your better placed to understand a politicians real agenda.
> 
> if a north korean told you everything was great in their country would you say "well you live there and i dont so you must be right?"


The Scottish people are not daft, or as easily taken in by Politicans or the BBC (as shown by this weekends protests) as other parts of the UK. Unlike England, Scotland is NEVER suckered in by a Tory government. EVER! I think that speaks volumes to the social conscious and political awareness of the people who do indeed LIVE in Scotland!


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> I still don't think we needed it 24 hrs a day. On the hour for an update, then they should leave it alone for a while.


then dont watch 24 hour news channels.
watch all the other channels they only have news related programmes couple times per day, and when they are on, change the channel? or switch off the telly?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> You are wrong Gobiln, further along in the debate (from 1hr 21min to 1hr 23min), Salmond flat out asked Darling to be part of the decision making in an iScotland if a YES vote prevailed, and Darling sneered and laughed at him, and refused to answer Alex's invitation.


Work together as in for the same cause is not the same as working personally with someone you dislike where the work and what would be achieved would suffer. Darling admitted this in another interview, their personalities would clash. Salmond on the other hand refuses to answer what if they lose.

All media is biased other than what you watch. I suppose you also watch things like Euro News (German language) which had a lovely piece yesterday about the resistance Scotland may face when it comes to joining the EU.



scottydog999 said:


> The swell is due to people who haven't got a clue about real life in Scotland telling us what we should do! Hence cementing a YES victory.


Which says an awful lot about how dangerous this referendum is. When voting becomes a "up yours" reaction rather than one based on facts, doing what is best long term not just for the themselves but future generations.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Work together as in for the same cause is not the same as working personally with someone you dislike where the work and what would be achieved would suffer. Darling admitted this in another interview, their personalities would clash. Salmond on the other hand refuses to answer what if they lose.
> 
> All media is biased other than what you watch. I suppose you also watch things like Euro News (German language) which had a lovely piece yesterday about the resistance Scotland may face when it comes to joining the EU.
> 
> Which says an awful lot about how dangerous this referendum is. When voting becomes a "up yours" reaction rather than one based on facts, doing what is best long term not just for the themselves but future generations.


I have based my YES on many factors, I am just highlighting the fact that the more the "Empire" tells us we can't, the stronger our resolve. Hence their scaremongering back firing on them. But of course there will be someone people who will just vote YES as a "up yours", but my vote is about so much more. Animal welfare being one of MANY reasons!


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

You have got to love the Scottish humour and resolve! When the corrupt Westminster leaders arrived a couple of days ago, we played The Empire strikes back music to them, as they walked into our streets.

The corrupt Empire is striking back (panicking) now, but the Scots are having none of it!

Empire strikes back - YouTube


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> The Scottish people are not daft, or as easily taken in by Politicans or the BBC (as shown by this weekends protests) as other parts of the UK. Unlike England, Scotland is NEVER suckered in by a Tory government. EVER! I think that speaks volumes to the social conscious and political awareness of the people who do indeed LIVE in Scotland!


i assume by the  that you're not actually being serious with that ridiculous post? I sure hope i'm right.

You do realise that england and scotland are not people, right? You dont sucker a country you sucker a person. There are english suckers, sure but there are scottish suckers and welsh suckers too. There are also politically aware englishmen, welshmen and scotsmen.

If the english are all suckers then the scottish are all drunk heroin addicts.

Isnt national stereotyping FUN!


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

porps said:


> i assume by the  that you're not actually being serious with that ridiculous post? I sure hope i'm right.
> 
> You do realise that england and scotland are not people, right? You dont sucker a country you sucker a person. There are english suckers, sure but there are scottish suckers and welsh suckers too. There are also politically aware englishmen, welshmen and scotland.
> 
> ...


You misunderstood my post! 

There is only ONE Tory MP in Scotland! How many are in England? THAT was my point! 

Scotland is NEVER suckered in by the Tories. History lesson for you! Scotland throughout history rejects The Conservatives, but because England and have far more people/seats, Scotland ends up with a Tory Government.

Yet another reason to vote YES, amongst many reasons. For democracy!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> Animal welfare being one of MANY reasons!


Please expand. The animal welfare side of things I haven't heard about in this debate. What is going to happen to all the UK organisations dealing with animal protection for example? What about the RSPB, RSPCA. Scotland already has the ability to alter laws etc in regards to things like Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) so what advantages exist there. What about national clubs such as the Kennel Club and similar..


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> You misunderstood my post!
> 
> There is only ONE Tory MP in Scotland! How many are in England? THAT was my point!


i;m sorry if i misunderstood... but when you said



scottydog999 said:


> The Scottish people are not daft, or as easily taken in by Politicans or the BBC as other parts of the UK


it sure sounded like you were saying "the scottish are not as daft or naive as the rest of the uk" which is a mssive generalisation.

But if the main reason you want independance is to be tory free, well thats something i can fully understand, even as a daft, naive, unpolitically minded and not socially aware englishman.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Please expand. The animal welfare side of things I haven't heard about in this debate. What is going to happen to all the UK organisations dealing with animal protection for example? What about the RSPB, RSPCA. Scotland already has the ability to alter laws etc in regards to things like Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) so what advantages exist there. What about national clubs such as the Kennel Club and similar..


The RSPCA doesn't exist in Scotland... we have our own SSPCA! There is no RSPCA etc here. Did your Scottish friends not advise you of that?

But the Tories are trying to KILL our wildlife, and austerity is meaning more animals are suffering neglect. People are less likely to rehome animals (domestic kind) in shelters due to economic squeeze from Westminster.

Scotland is the 14th most wealthy country in the world, our people should not be living in poverty. As wages rise, and an economic up surge prevails after a YES vote, animals in turn benefit also.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> The RSPCA doesn't exist in Scotland... we have our own SSPCA! There is no RSPCA etc here. Did your Scottish friends not advise you of that?
> 
> But the Tories are trying to KILL our wildlife, and austerity is meaning more animals are suffering neglect. People are less likely to rehome animals in shelters due to economic squeeze from Westminster.
> 
> Scotland is the 14th most wealthy country in the world, our people should not be living in poverty. As wages rise, and an economic up surge prevails after a YES vote, animals in turn benefit also.


So other than the name SSPCA you don't have any details of animal welfare..

Your post shows once again that this referendum isn't about facts and the future.. it's about you don't like a tory government.

14th most wealthy due to being backed by the Bank of England and the fact that the whole of the UK has a AAA stable credit rating. That will not be case after a yes vote, especially if defaulting on shares of the national debt which is what Mr Salmond is threatening if he doesn't get everything he wants.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Goblin said:


> So other than the name SSPCA you don't have any details of animal welfare..
> 
> Your post shows once again that this referendum isn't about facts and the future.. it's about you don't like a tory government.
> 
> 14th most wealthy due to being backed by the Bank of England and the fact that the whole of the UK has a AAA stable credit rating. That will not be case after a yes vote, especially if defaulting on shares of the national debt which is what Mr Salmond is threatening if he doesn't get everything he wants.


You are very good at twisting things... I am at work, and do not have the time to go into detail. Just outlines, I am affraid.

Salmond WANTS the pound, which means we take our share of the national debt if YES prevails.

It is Westminster saying they are not willing to share OUR pound, if they refuse to share, legally Scotland no longer is tied to the debt.

But Salmond said he wants the pound, so we pay the debt.

It is a bluff by Westminster to scare people into a NO vote.

Do you really think they will refuse us a shared currency, at the expense of us being able to walk away from OUR share of the National debt? Think about it!!! We will get a shared £.

Again, you are showing your lack of understanding on the matter.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> The RSPCA doesn't exist in Scotland... we have our own SSPCA! There is no RSPCA etc here. Did your Scottish friends not advise you of that?
> 
> But the Tories are trying to KILL our wildlife, and austerity is meaning more animals are suffering neglect. People are less likely to rehome animals (domestic kind) in shelters due to economic squeeze from Westminster.
> 
> Scotland is the 14th most wealthy country in the world, our people should not be living in poverty. As wages rise, and an economic up surge prevails after a YES vote, animals in turn benefit also.


If Scotland is currently the 14th most wealthy Country in the World, then it would appear they're doing quite nicely as part of the United Kingdom.

In spite of all this wealth, according to you, "austerity is meaning more animals are suffering neglect".

If Scotland don't see animal welfare as a priority now, why should they if they get Independence?

Quite honestly, Belinda, I think dragging animal welfare into the debate makes you sound just a little bit desperate.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> You are very good at twisting things... I am at work, and do not have the time to go into detail. Just outlines, I am affraid.
> 
> Salmond WANTS the pound, which means we take our share of the national debt if YES prevails.
> 
> ...


Of course Scotland can use the £, you can use the US $ or whatever currency you like but it will not be a currency union meaning Scotland has no say on interest rates etc and you won't be backed by the Bank of England


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Sweety said:


> If Scotland is currently the 14th most wealthy Country in the World, then it would appear they're doing quite nicely as part of the United Kingdom.
> 
> In spite of all this wealth, according to you, "austerity is meaning more animals are suffering neglect".
> 
> ...


We are 14th, but Westminster rapes us financially. We put more into the UK pot, than we get back. Add onto that Austerity, bam, we are poor, when we should be rich!

Animal welfare should be important to people on a pet forum, surely?

Belinda? Who is Belinda? Chi chi!


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> Of course Scotland can use the £, you can use the US $ or whatever currency you like but it will not be a currency union meaning Scotland has no say on interest rates etc and you won't be backed by the Bank of England


We only want to use it as part of an agreed currency union.

Otherwise, we would be better with our own currency. Which some Scots would prefer anyway, be completely away from the corrupt Empire dictating to us. 

What England are failing to acknowledge is it is OUR pound, all of the countries that make up the UK. A currency union will not be refused, it is not just ENGLAND'S pound to decide.

A currency union WILL happen, due to the reason sited above! The debt! A deal breaker


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Quite honestly, Belinda, I think dragging animal welfare into the debate makes you sound just a little bit desperate.


You got that as well did you.

What did it for you, the incessant rambling or the 999 reference.:laugh:


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

As the snivelling BBC decries Vivienne Westwood as "unpatriotic" for her support of Yes Scotland it makes the shocking revelation that "England will be ruined." At last an admission of who gains more from this unfair union. Vivienne, you are welcome to Scotland any time.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Zaros said:


> You got that as well did you.
> 
> What did it for you, the incessant rambling or the 999 reference.:laugh:


Oh, I think some vague, inner sense alerted me.

Of course, the despotic, frantic, dictatorial, bullying, increasingly more and more outlandish posts might just have been a bit of a giveaway.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> As the snivelling BBC decries Vivienne Westwood as "unpatriotic" for her support of Yes Scotland it makes the shocking revelation that "England will be ruined." At last an admission of who gains more from this unfair union. Vivienne, you are welcome to Scotland any time.


Oh yes. How passionate Vivienne is about Scotland.

It's nothing to do with the fact that she's launched a new tartan range. :smile:


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Oh yes. How passionate Vivienne is about Scotland.
> 
> It's nothing to do with the fact that she's launched a new tartan range. :smile:


Anyone who knows anything about fashion KNOWS, Westwood has always used tartan in her collections! It is nothing new!


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

An article Goblin will appreciate (reference to German supermarket business model):

Messages ainât scary â warnings of doom donât add up | The Sun |Scottish News|Columnists|Andrew Nicoll


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> As the snivelling BBC decries Vivienne Westwood as "unpatriotic" for her support of Yes Scotland it makes the shocking revelation that "England will be ruined." At last an admission of who gains more from this unfair union. Vivienne, you are welcome to Scotland any time.


funny how you're prepared to accept what they say so long as they agree with you but not when they dont.

And _you_ talk about bias...

Why are you even watching the BBC if you're so against them? Dont get me wrong, i think theyre a bunch of useless (swear word)s too, i think the whole organisation is a dinosaur that needs to be put to rest..

But i dont slate them with the one hand then support them by tuning in with the other... i bet you pay your license fee too?

Scotland, you're welcome to vivienne westwood any time.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> Anyone who knows anything about fashion KNOWS, Westwood has always used tartan in her collections! It is nothing new!


Ah well, you see Belinda, unlike you, I'm not an expert in every field.

Crime, Politics, Fashion - your list is endless.

I tend to stick to what I know, otherwise, you can easily end up talking a load of unfathomable nonsense.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Ah well, you see Belinda, unlike you, I'm not an expert in every field.
> 
> Crime, Politics, Fashion - your list is endless.
> 
> I tend to stick to what I know, otherwise, you can easily end up talking a load of unfathomable nonsense.


I can also spot a green eyed monster (my combined looks and knowledge, I am used to it) from a mile off! 

Why do you insist on calling me Belinda? Is it an inside joke I am missing?


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

porps said:


> funny how you're prepared to accept what they say so long as they agree with you but not when they dont.
> 
> And _you_ talk about bias...
> 
> ...


I take your point on board, oh the shame of me quoting from the BBC.

They are bias, but still a source of "news"! I read and watch the BBC for entertainment value now, and I did put "snivelling" in front of BBC in my post you quoted! I was posting to highlight the irony of the news article/chanel


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> I take your point on board, oh the shame of me quoting from the BBC.
> 
> They are bias, but still a source of "news"! I read and watch the BBC for entertainment value now, and I did put "snivelling" in front of BBC in my post you quoted! I was posting to highlight the irony of the news article/chanel


i realise that you put snivelling in your post, which is why i dont understand why you continue to support them by tuning in, and presumably paying money to them each year by way of a license fee. Doesnt matter if you're just watching them for entertainment, you are still supporting them. do you think they care about wether you watch for entertainment or information? NO. They only care that you're tuning in and lining their pockets. Their viewing figures dont take into account the reason WHY you tune in.


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## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

porps said:


> i realise that you put snivelling in your post, which is why i dont understand why you continue to support them by tuning in, and presumably paying money to them each year by way of a license fee. Doesnt matter if you're just watching them for entertainment, you are still supporting them. do you think they care about wether you watch for entertainment or information? NO. They only care that you're tuning in and lining their pockets. Their viewing figures dont take into account the reason WHY you tune in.


In the last week, THOUSANDS of Scots have cancelled their Licence fee Direct Debit in protest!

As it is illegal to watch BBC programs without one, I will keep to myslef, whether I put my money where my mouth is. 

I like you Props, you challenge intelligently and politely. At the same time provoke my thought inwards! Thank you!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> I can also spot a green eyed monster (my combined looks and knowledge, I am used to it) from a mile off!
> 
> Why do you insist on calling me Belinda? Is it an inside joke I am missing?


Well, the joke part is accurate I guess...

Tartan was invented in Central Europe, and although popular in Scotland when it arrive, the Clan tartans are actually something of an invented heritage/tradition which only really started really took off when the monarchy took to visiting and then holidaying in Scotland, primarily Queen Victoria.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> In the last week, THOUSANDS of Scots have cancelled their Licence fee Direct Debit in protest!
> 
> As it is illegal to watch BBC programs without one, I will keep to myslef, whether I put my money where my mouth is.
> 
> I like you Props, you challenge intelligently and politely. At the same time provoke my thought inwards! Thank you!


Actually it's only illegal if you watch it live (as it's being broadcast i mean, it can still be a prerecorded show). You can legally watch on demand without need for a license. When i watch the f1 i always rewind the live stream 5 minutes so that it's not quite live 

Yep you cant trust em, but you cant trust the media full stop, not just the bbc.. theyre all biased one way or another. i swear i know more about whats actually going on in the world since i stopped watching/reading the news. I just come here.. at least you get a good mix of opinions here.

politeness isnt something i'm often accused of, so thanks, i guess you must've caught me on a good day :tongue_smilie:


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> We only want to use it as part of an agreed currency union.
> 
> Otherwise, we would be better with our own currency. Which some Scots would prefer anyway, be completely away from the corrupt Empire dictating to us.
> 
> ...


Oh well yes I am sure you are absolutely correct, best of luck.

Perhaps you can explain to the stupid English why the Bank of England would want to be in a currency union with a foreign country?

Do you have any idea what would happen to Scotland if you renege on the debt?


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> Oh well yes I am sure you are absolutely correct, best of luck.
> 
> Perhaps you can explain to the stupid English why the Bank of England would want to be in a currency union with a foreign country?
> 
> Do you have any idea what would happen to Scotland if you renege on the debt?


If we "renege" (bad word, I would prefer to use "forced to" by Westminster's refusal) it is assumed our credit rating as a country will be affected badly!

But this scenario will not happen, we will get a currency union and also pay our share of the debt!


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> If we "renege" (bad word, I would prefer to use "forced to" by Westminster's refusal) it is assumed our credit rating as a country will be affected badly!
> 
> But this scenario will not happen, we will get a currency union and also pay our share of the debt!


What will you do if you do get Independence and can no longer blame Westminster for everything?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> We only want to use it as part of an agreed currency union.
> 
> Otherwise, we would be better with our own currency. Which some Scots would prefer anyway, be completely away from the corrupt Empire dictating to us.
> 
> ...


ireland gained independence from UK

they thought we are an independent country, like any independent country, we should have our own currency. makes sense


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scottydog999 said:


> We only want to use it as part of an agreed currency union.
> 
> Otherwise, we would be better with our own currency. Which some Scots would prefer anyway, be completely away from the corrupt Empire dictating to us.
> 
> ...


You keep making declarations about what WILL happen in Scotland, should they gain Independence, without any evidence to back it up.

You appear to blindly believe everything you hear in a live debate on television or what you read in leaflets, pushed through your door.

When people point out the potential problems and pitfalls, you deal with that by saying "Oh, that won't happen".


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Tails and Trails said:


> ireland gained independence from UK
> 
> they thought we are an independent country, like any independent country, we should have our own currency. makes sense


I personally would prefer our own currency, it does make more sense. Total Independence, and financially better in the longer term, as we can set our own interest rates and inflation etc.


----------



## scottydog999 (Sep 14, 2014)

Sweety said:


> You keep making declarations about what WILL happen in Scotland, should they gain Independence, without any evidence to back it up.
> 
> You appear to blindly believe everything you hear in a live debate on television or what you read in leaflets, pushed through your door.
> 
> When people point out the potential problems and pitfalls, you deal with that by saying "Oh, that won't happen".


Common sense doesn't need "backing up" as you put it! 

Some things ARE just common sense!

I am involved in the grass roots movement, so I do not just read leaflets and watch TV.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

scottydog999 said:


> Common sense doesn't need "backing up" as you put it!
> 
> Some things ARE just common sense!
> 
> I am involved in the grass roots movement, so I do not just read leaflets and watch TV.


you will probably find there are actually no celts in the grass roots, thats just a myth of history


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> If we "renege" (bad word, I would prefer to use "forced to" by Westminster's refusal) it is assumed our credit rating as a country will be affected badly!
> 
> But this scenario will not happen, we will get a currency union and also pay our share of the debt!


Why.. you want democracy.. People in the UK don't want to be responsible for an independent Scotland, they have the same rights as you do in a democracy. Other Europeans such as the Germans don't want to be potentially responsible for bailing out an independent Scotland if they get into difficulties with the Euro. There's a background of discontent at the money being spent to hold up Greece.

What you fail to acknowledge is the idea of "we will negotiate and get this and that" but Scotland brings little to the table to bargain with other than threats, "we will not take on our share of debt", "you can't afford to have us fail" etc. Despite that "you" expect everything to go your way.



scottydog999 said:


> An article Goblin will appreciate (reference to German supermarket business model)


I know about the model. Doesn't mean that prices will not be appropriate for the individual country. I can go over the border and get things at different prices from potentially the same chain. No different to Scotland, prices go up as distibution cost goes up on a country by country basis. Changes will happen and will be probably be "hidden" as much as possible with currency change. Do you think companies didn't increase prices when the Euro was brought in? Much easier to disguise price changes when it's no longer the same currency on price labels.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> I personally would prefer our own currency, it does make more sense. Total Independence, and financially better in the longer term, as we can set our own interest rates and inflation etc.


You can't set inflation. This seems to be an ongoing theme that you seem to think you can just set everything to whatever you like. Low inflation, low interest rates, low taxes, low unemployment etc. Of course every politician promises this but none can deliver. The Scottish politicians are no different in that respect.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Sudden thought.. all those youtube videos available in the UK. Would they still be available in Scotland or would you sometimes get the message as we do: 

"...Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA.."


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, all of this just has an air of 'Jackanory' about it.

Apparently, Scotland gets Independence. The Country will automatically be rich, presumably mainly from Wind and Water, there will be no unemployment or unwanted animals in rescue.

There will be no border controls.

It will be an overnight Utopiah. 

It must be true because some Politician said so.


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> We are 14th,


No you're not 14th since you don't exist yet. What you are is an estimated 14th on a list generated by the Yes campaign. That's not quite the same thing. You might end up higher or lower depending on how things shake out.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Apparently, Scotland gets Independence. The Country will automatically be an overnight Utopiah.
> 
> It must be true because some Politician said so.


Utopia? Now what was Goebels's observation regarding that strange and wonderful idyllic that doesn't appear to be recorded on any known map but is the most sought after country in the entire world.....Oh I know.....If everyone believed in peace they would immediately begin fighting over the best methods to achieve it. :wink:


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

scottydog999 said:


> In the last week, THOUSANDS of Scots have cancelled their Licence fee Direct Debit in protest!


Correct. This seems to be the Yes voter solution ( not necessarily the Yes campaign solution... which by the way is even more unlikely ). That the BBC Channels are FTA and they can watch them for free just like the ex-pats in Spain because there will be no enforceable law against it. In all likelihood this will result long-term in the FTA channels ceasing to be FTA.

This is the Yes campaign solution direct from their website...

"In its white paper, "Scotland's Future", the Scottish Government proposes that BBC Scotland will be developed into a new public service broadcaster called the Scottish Broadcasting Service (SBS). Just now BBC Scotland is asked to supply 8.6% of eligibile original programming for the BBC network. The Scottish Government therefore proposes that the SBS and BBC come to an agreement so that the SBS continues to supply this original programming to the BBC, in return for ongoing access to BBC services in Scotland. "

The intention seems to be that the SBS will swap a few regional programmes plus Mrs Brown's Boys ( if they are in fact entitled to keep it ) for the entire BBC line-up of TV, radio and digital services. Seems fair to me.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow, this has all started up again.


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> Wow, this has all started up again.


I wasn't here first time around. It's unusual for me to venture into General Chat. I actually think it would be better off on a different website and renamed iGeneralChat. Then it could have swearing and racism and everything. I vote Yes.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> I wasn't here first time around. It's unusual for me to venture into General Chat. I actually think it would be better off on a different website and renamed iGeneralChat. Then it could have swearing and racism and everything. I vote Yes.


You may as well have been here, lovey - it was more of the same. 

Would we be able to use rep in iGeneralChat?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> I wasn't here first time around. It's unusual for me to venture into General Chat. I actually think it would be better off on a different website and renamed iGeneralChat. Then it could have swearing and racism and everything. I vote Yes.


Oh, it's all very familiar.

We've heard it all before on a previous thread.


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> Would we be able to use rep in iGeneralChat?


I haven't worked out all the details yet. What I can tell you is that you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams if you move across.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> I haven't worked out all the details yet. What I can tell you is that you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams if you move across.


I just want to make sure the rep can be used across both forums.

Perhaps both sides could come to some sort of agreement?


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> I just want to make sure the rep can be used across both forums.


You can take your positive rep with you. The negative rep can be left behind. No more red blobs.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> You can take your positive rep with you. The negative rep can be left behind. No more red blobs.


So I can take all the good and leave the bad? That's convenient!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Oh, I think some vague, inner sense alerted me.
> 
> Of course, the despotic, frantic, dictatorial, bullying, increasingly more and more outlandish posts might just have been a bit of a giveaway.


Do you know I read one post on another thread and immediately thought that sounds just like Belinda, ventured into this one and see I'm not the only one. Hello BC. Fancy seeing you here.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh yes. Dear Belinda could have tried a little harder to create a new 'self'.

Never a mention of an animal in her life ...... just Politics.

Apparently, that's how Zealots tend to behave.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> I just want to make sure the rep can be used across both forums.
> 
> Perhaps both sides could come to some sort of agreement?


What!!!??? An Agreement!!!??? 

That's crazy talk.

TOTAL INDEPENDENCE is what's needed.

It's, apparently, the only way to success and riches beyond our wildest dreams.

All you need is wind and rain.


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> So I can take all the good and leave the bad? That's convenient!


Nothing bad will ever happen to you again. FACT. I've even discovered some oil under my car. I don't know how far down it goes. There could be as much as 24 billion barrels.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Oh yes. Dear Belinda could have tried a little harder to create a new 'self'.
> 
> Never a mention of an animal in her life ...... just Politics.
> 
> Apparently, that's how Zealots tend to behave.


_*The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved.
To this type belong many lunatics.*_

_(Bertrand Russell)_


----------



## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

I posted this on FB earlier, kind of sums up my feelings.



> I will be voting Yes on Thursday, which has surprised me as much as anyone else reading this. I was a pretty settled No up until recent weeks, but have now come to believe that independence offers us a chance for a Scotland that truly reflects its people's political and social beliefs.I'm not interested in debating my choice, or being sent links to studies from banks saying we'll be doomed, or anything like that. That's my choice, I've made it.
> What I will say is that I have been disappointed by some of the tone of campaigning from both sides, but particularly from some Yes supporters, whose unhelpful and sometimes offensive posts and statements I see cropping up on my Facebook feed have made me shake my head. I make this decision in spite of you, not because of you, and to anyone who has told No voters they don't have Scotland's interests at heart, or aren't true Scots, shame on you. Every Scottish person wants the best for our country, and we're allowed to disagree on how that is best achieved, because that is what a democracy is.
> I hope whatever the result on Friday morning, we can all start being a bit nicer to each other and move forward for the best of the country.


I'm not under the illusion Scotland will become a magical place filled with unicorns and candy, but I do believe our political values and social beliefs are sufficiently different from England to warrant us being independent. That's not to say I don't like England or the English, my partner is English! It's nothing personal against England, I just believe that Scotland will be better served as an independent country.

It's disappointing on both sides to see some of the vitriol, I've seen loads of stuff on here along the lines of "Good riddance to them" which I think is just a bit sad  Likewise, some of the Yes stuff on here has been pretty hostile and borderline ridiculous.

Whatever happens on Thursday, it's clear there is a real appetite and impetus for change in Scotland and I look forward to seeing what that means for us


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Fluffster said:


> I posted this on FB earlier, kind of sums up my feelings.
> 
> I'm not under the illusion Scotland will become a magical place filled with unicorns and candy, but I do believe our political values and social beliefs are sufficiently different from England to warrant us being independent. That's not to say I don't like England or the English, my partner is English! It's nothing personal against England, I just believe that Scotland will be better served as an independent country.
> 
> ...


I don't believe anyone would have an issue with that at all. You've decided which way you want to go and you're going to go with your beliefs.

I think it's when we have one person, who is determined to ram her beliefs down the throats of everyone else and implies that anyone who doesn't agree with her is an idiot that people become a little irritated.

You would have thought she would have had the sense to let it lie after last time, but no, she's back again and, once more, becoming hysterical in her one woman quest.

Calling the English "Stupid" won't really help her cause, in my opinion. :smile5:


----------



## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

Fluffster said:


> I do believe our political values and social beliefs are sufficiently different from England


Englands differ wildly from one end to the other, why should Scotland be any different...


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Fluffster said:


> I posted this on FB earlier, kind of sums up my feelings.
> 
> I'm not under the illusion Scotland will become a magical place filled with unicorns and candy, but I do believe our political values and social beliefs are sufficiently different from England to warrant us being independent. That's not to say I don't like England or the English, my partner is English! It's nothing personal against England, I just believe that Scotland will be better served as an independent country.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'll be sad to see Scotland go if you do. 

My sarcastic posts above are in response to a particular forum user, not the Scottish as a whole or the 'yes' voters.


----------



## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Ah I haven't read the whole thread :lol: has someone been making a menace of themselves?! Bloody Scots


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Fluffster said:


> Ah I haven't read the whole thread :lol: has someone been making a menace of themselves?! Bloody Scots


Yes.lol

Its an individual choice who we do or don't vote for..if we even vote at all.

I like to see both sides to a debate or even argument but not be told what to do otherwise I am stupid too.

It will be interesting to see which way it goes...must admit, getting totally tired with listening to it all...same old. same old.

and, for what its worth....politicians are the same the world over...promise everything and give nothing.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, thank goodness. This particular person has been banned, again.

We can now resume our normal, lighthearted, madness.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> *Cameron didn't allow the alternative option of De-Vo max to be part of the vote,* now all of a sudden throwing lord knows what at Scotland - without asking the rest of the UK! Because of this I feel a No vote would now be an utter disaster for the whole of the UK and cuase huge divisions - bad feeling from the English as they have had no voice just have to pay for it, very bad feeling from the Scottish when you realise its just another big fat lie that will not come off


A great many people have forgotten this point and it is a most important one. A great many Scots don't / didn't want to leave the Union, they simply wanted greater control of their destiny, their future, their country without being dictated to by someone three hundred-plus miles away who was clueless on how the people of the country lived their lives.

Cameron is now panicking because his belief that Scotland would say No is in real danger of back-firing on him and he's now chucking all sorts of promises at the Scots as a last, desperate attempt to claw back some footing. Had he allowed the Max-Devo option from the start, he would not have been in this position.

There are Scots who will say 'Sod the English' and there are English who will say 'Sod the Scots' so I guess they cancel each other out. Bigotry of that nature always has a foot in both camps.

I personally would like to see Scotland get its Independence. I would like to see it succeed and for it to stop being looked upon as 'the poor relation' - a status it has been subjected to for far too long. The population of Scotland is approx 5.5 million people. The money raised by Scottish businesses & tourism is not pennies - approx £72bn in 2012-13. The monetary input, per head, is pretty substantial. Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK as a whole in 2012-13. THIS is why Cameron is sh!tting himself and it is NOTHING to do with keeping the Union together for sentimental reasons.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> The monetary input, per head, is pretty substantial. Scotland generated £800 more in tax per person than the UK as a whole in 2012-13. THIS is why Cameron is sh!tting himself and it is NOTHING to do with keeping the Union together for sentimental reasons.


Selective figures are great aren't they.. Scotland per head provided an estimated £789 more in tax than the UK as a whole in 2012-13. Scottish public expenditure per head, however, in the same period was higher £1256. That's assuming the oil revenue is all scottish but the there are at least 9 internationally acceptable variants of the North Sea border of which for some, not all the oil is Scottish.

Public expenditure in Scotland is equivalent to 9.3% of the UK total with an 8.4% population share. In 2012-13, per person this equated to £7932 compared with £6722 for the UK.

Taken from an article by the West Midlands Economic Forum head of research explainining why the west midlands should not be disadvantaged by Westminster rushing through more powers for Scotland. Simply put, parts of the west midlands have just as much poverty and transport infrastructure issues so why shouldn't they get the same as Scotland.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Cameron didn't allow the alternative option of De-Vo max to be part of the vote


Wait. What's this about Devo?


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Selective figures are great aren't they.. Scotland per head provided an estimated £789 more in tax than the UK as a whole in 2012-13. Scottish public expenditure per head, however, in the same period was higher £1256. That's assuming the oil revenue is all scottish but the there are at least 9 internationally acceptable variants of the North Sea border of which for some, not all the oil is Scottish.
> 
> Public expenditure in Scotland is equivalent to 9.3% of the UK total with an 8.4% population share. In 2012-13, per person this equated to £7932 compared with £6722 for the UK.


I got the above figures from this location: 10 key economic facts that prove Scotland will be a wealthy independent nation : Business for Scotland.

If you disagree, you can take it up with them. 

.


----------



## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> I got the above figures from this location: 10 key economic facts that prove Scotland will be a wealthy independent nation : Business for Scotland.
> 
> If you disagree, you can take it up with them.
> 
> .


Will they have to change the domain from .co.uk soon?
:lol:


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I got the above figures from this location: 10 key economic facts that prove Scotland will be a wealthy independent nation : Business for Scotland.
> 
> If you disagree, you can take it up with them.
> 
> .


Yet this thread is about biased reporting. 



> Last year Scotland provided £800 more in tax per person that the UK average. This means Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off as an independent country over the past 5 years. We could have spent that money investing in our economy with the same debt levels as the rest of the UK or saved it and had £8.3 billion less debt.


Totally ignoring public expenditure which wipes out that tax difference and then some. Wait they cover that... They they show % GDP to get around that public expenditure, not actual straight numbers which wouldn't show it in the right way.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

jon bda said:


> Will they have to change the domain from .co.uk soon?
> :lol:


well, if scotland becomes independent, of course they could apply to ICANN for their own domain. scot would be my guess

but many organisations would carry on being gov, com, org, edu anyway

obvious thing to sort out really


----------



## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

Fluffster said:


> I posted this on FB earlier, kind of sums up my feelings.
> 
> I'm not under the illusion Scotland will become a magical place filled with unicorns and candy, but I do believe our political values and social beliefs are sufficiently different from England to warrant us being independent. That's not to say I don't like England or the English, my partner is English! It's nothing personal against England, I just believe that Scotland will be better served as an independent country.
> 
> ...


Well said Fluffster. I've a pretty similar view to you, the only difference being that while I'm not completely convinced by either sides arguments (and figures, I take both with a pinch of salt!) I've probably always edged towards voting Yes on an idealistic level.

On the whole the referendum debate has been good. It's got us all interested in what our politicians are doing, and that can only be a good thing. You are right though, some of the vitriol on forums like this one are very sad. I'll be honest, I've been particularly disappointed with this forum, though I do appreciate that as has already been mentioned, it seems to be started off by one particular person going way over the top in their arguments for the Yes side.

I do take some hope from recent newspaper articles that have started appearing on the need for change immaterial of what the result of Thursday's vote is. If Scotland votes yes, it will hopefully give the rest of the UK the appetite for change too, and if Scotland votes no, those involved in the Better Together campaign can't simply rest on their laurels and let things continue as they are.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> A great many people have forgotten this point and it is a most important one. A great many Scots don't / didn't want to leave the Union, they simply wanted greater control of their destiny, their future, their country without being dictated to by someone three hundred-plus miles away who was clueless on how the people of the country lived their lives.
> 
> Cameron is now panicking because his belief that Scotland would say No is in real danger of back-firing on him and he's now chucking all sorts of promises at the Scots as a last, desperate attempt to claw back some footing. Had he allowed the Max-Devo option from the start, he would not have been in this position.
> 
> ...


I would like to remain part of the Union. No matter which politician we have running the show they are all the same.

I think Scotland needs to have more control over running the country but, "United we stand, Divided we fall," springs to mind here too.

I live in North East Scotland so its more than 300 miles to Westminster....we moved from NW England...also more than 200 miles from London..should NW England also govern itself?..does this mean then that the people in Caithness and the Islands should have their own parliament cos of distance and people further down country not really understanding life for an Islander?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

i could have voted yes and no! I want to remain part of the union but don't like being governed by Westminster,most of Glasgow didn,t vote conservative but we end up with them! the politics are screwing up the country!


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

UKIP coming first in the euros, scotland voting to leave, please, anything anywhere to destroy the corrupt LibLabCon westminster status quo


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

pmsl.....camera crew from bbc are out where I stay today,i,m watching the news and see a guy I know being interviewed,asked if he,s voted he answers I,ve no voted much at all why cant they film a sober scot? lol


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> UKIP coming first in the euros, scotland voting to leave, please, anything anywhere to destroy the corrupt LibLabCon westminster status quo


 I can see ukip making a huge dent in the elections,people are sick of the conservatives labour and lib dems,not just Scotland.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> most of Glasgow didn,t vote conservative but we end up with them! !


most of england didnt vote tory either.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

UKIP fill me with a deep and sad dread


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

porps said:


> most of england didnt vote tory either.


who is voting them in? I,m totally confused now....I realise they had to form a coalition to get enough votes to win,somewhere people are voting for them....was it the welsh? .


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> who is voting them in? I,m totally confused now....I realise they had to form a coalition to get enough votes to win,somewhere people are voting for them....was it the welsh? .


no, it wasnt the welsh. most people in the UK full stop didnt vote tory. For most people to have voted tory they would need more than 50% of the vote which they didnt get.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

porps said:


> no, it wasnt the welsh. most people in the UK full stop didnt vote tory. For most people to have voted tory they would need more than 50% of the vote which they didnt get.


 think we need some new fresh partys,everything is going pearshaped,thats why ukip are getting protest votes.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> no, it wasnt the welsh. most people in the UK full stop didnt vote tory. For most people to have voted tory they would need more than 50% of the vote which they didnt get.


never voted tory in my life...think my mother would cut my fingers off if I did and my old granny would turn in her grave.

can't see the point in voting labour either or lib debs and UKIP isn't the way forwards for me...lol. who is left?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Noone, which is why so many choose not to vote. In my case i absolutely want to vote AGAINST the tories next time, but theres still noone worth actually voting FOR.

Perhaps the ballot papers should just allow you to place a vote against a party which would cancel out someones vote for that party.

perhaps every non voter should count as a vote against all parties.

And if noone wins a clear majority, all current parties should be scrapped and we should try again with new candidates.

i dont know really what the solution is, but there must be something better than this illusion of a democracy. Hell, i'd take anarchy over this.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

mollydog07 said:


> who is voting them in? I,m totally confused now....I realise they had to form a coalition to get enough votes to win,somewhere people are voting for them....was it the welsh? .





porps said:


> no, it wasnt the welsh. most people in the UK full stop didnt vote tory. For most people to have voted tory they would need more than 50% of the vote which they didnt get.


Out of 29,691,380 voters in the UK (ie ALL of the UK), only 10,726,614 voted Tory. That was not a big enough majority to form a government, so they and the Lib Dems (for whom 6,836,824 had voted) formed a coalition. NO-ONE had voted for a coalition - but that's democracy as it exists in this country.
BBC NEWS | Election 2010 | Results | United Kingdom - National Results

And then, of course, the Lib-Dems proved so weak that their leader was a mere puppet, which to all intents and purposes means that since 2010 we have had a Tory government, which was wanted and voted for by only a third of the people of the UK.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I have to ask if there are any YES voters on here, and why you would vote yes?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2014)

harley bear said:


> I have to ask if there are any YES voters on here, and why you would vote yes?


Its been banned again, but it will be back again soon i'm sure...


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

jon bda said:


> Its been banned again, but it will be back again soon i'm sure...


What has been banned?


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

harley bear said:


> What has been banned?


The Yes voter. What will happen if she's having her hair done on Thursday ?


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> who is voting them in? I,m totally confused now....I realise they had to form a coalition to get enough votes to win,somewhere people are voting for them....was it the welsh? .


its debateable if any 'winning' party gets the majority of the votes.

say for example, you have one constituency, dark side of the moon.

6 candidates - tory, labour, lib dems, green, ukip, independent

there are 100,000 voters.

tory candidate gets 25,000. labour candidate gets 24,500. lib dem gets 15,000, ukip gets 14, 000, independent gets 10,000, green gets 10,000. 1,500 didnt vote.

so thats 75,000 voters in that constituency that didnt vote tory, or 73,500 if you think the non voters dont have a right to be considered. So 2 to 1 people didnt vote tory, but the tory becomes an MP for that constituency. and he only won by 500 voters on the second place guy, the labour guy.

now multiply that by 650 constituencies and the party with the most overall members of parliament becomes the government. so its quite easy for a government to be formed whereby 2 to 1 voters, as an example, didnt vote for them.

its called first past the post.

whereas in most European countries, and for the northern ireland and welsh assemblies, and the london mayor, and the scottish parliament, and the european union elections, we have proportional representation, whereby the number of candidates that go forward to office more reflects the number of votes they gained - proportionality - unlike it just always being the guy that just comes first, even if he just wins by 1 vote!

so often you end up with more political parties with more choice and more coalitions whereby parties have to compromise,


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> The Yes voter. What will happen if she's having her hair done on Thursday ?


Is there only one on here?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Very good article from George Monbiot on the media. >> *How the media shafted the people of Scotland. * How the media shafted the people of Scotland | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

Here is a quote from it! 

In the coverage of the referendum we see most of the pathologies of the corporate media. Here, for instance, you will find the unfounded generalisations with which less enlightened souls are characterised. In the Spectator, Simon Heffer maintains that:_ addicted to welfare ... Scots embraced the something for nothing society, objecting to the poll tax because many of them felt that paying taxes ought to be the responsibility of someone else"._

Disgusting, this is what the corporate media excel at - peddling propaganda & demonising groups.  They cannot be trusted.

.

.

.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> never voted tory in my life...think my mother would cut my fingers off if I did and my old granny would turn in her grave.
> 
> can't see the point in voting labour either or lib debs and UKIP isn't the way forwards for me...lol. who is left?


i wouldnt give a monkey's what my mother or grandmother would think about my voting intentions

i love my mother and grandmother very much


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Is there only one on here?


There is no referendum. That's just what the biased BBC is reporting. There is a Yes voter and a No voter. Scottish Independence is decided by an egg and spoon race.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> I have to ask if there are any YES voters on here, and why you would vote yes?


Quite a question.

I'm a big fan of a private vote. But i can give you an answer as to why Yes voters i know will be voting yes:

Reasons range from more representation as a democracy to genuine belief in a stronger economy (easy now peeps, i said these are friend's views), greater redistribution in monies made and spent in Scotland and investment opportunities.

If you like I can also tell you why folk are voting no.

Or alternatively you could look up any Facebook group or comments section under any news website and see the various views.

I'll be voting with my head and my heart


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> The Yes voter. What will happen if she's having her hair done on Thursday ?


Having her hair done!!?? 

She'll be far too busy, one her one woman Crusade, trying to browbeat and bully the whole of Scotland into voting Yes.

Are you forgetting ......... Scotland have wind and rain?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> There is no referendum. That's just what the biased BBC is reporting. There is a Yes voter and a No voter. Scottish Independence is decided by an egg and spoon race.


Salmond= egg
Darling= spoon


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

i would vote YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Quite a question.
> 
> I'm a big fan of a private vote. But i can give you an answer as to why Yes voters i know will be voting yes:
> 
> ...


I do wonder why anyone would vote yes... Mr Salmond cant answer any question asked of him.
If people believe that the country will support itself by fuel revenue im afraid they are sadly mistaken. 
Scotland will not get the pound, nor will they get nhs or pension's or benefits. ..Alex, has literally just said there will be no border control? ! Does he really think that we will allow people to wonder into our country? 
Where is he going to get the money to replace all the oil rigs equipment. ..england subsidised that...


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> i would vote YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I wish I could cross the border and vote yes too lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i would vote YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You voted for UKIP, didn't you?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> I do wonder why anyone would vote yes... Mr Salmond cant answer any question asked of him.
> If people believe that the country will support itself by fuel revenue im afraid they are sadly mistaken.
> Scotland will not get the pound, nor will they get nhs or pension's or benefits. ..Alex, has literally just said there will be no border control? ! Does he really think that we will allow people to wonder into our country?
> Where is he going to get the money to replace all the oil rigs equipment. ..england subsidised that...


There are plenty of reasons to vote either way.
Your comment could be matched by someone who was a yes could just highlighting a lot of woes in the BT camp.

Both have glaring downsides

This is why i keep my vote private.
a) I am well informed and was undecided for a long, long time
b) I don't need to hear other people's votes
c) I respect other people's opinions 
d) I don't believe voters of any side are foolish, they are just going with what they believe in
e) I don't need to engage in political debate with anyone or try and change their mind.

Simples.

Ultimately the world won't end either way well it will, but not for billions of years hopefully


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Alex, has literally just said there will be no border control? ! Does he really think that we will allow people to wonder into our country?


It would be impossible to border control. We'd need a 96 mile long wall with machine gun posts. Mind you all those East German Guards from Berlin are out of a job and there must be some bricks lying around.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> It would be impossible to border control. We'd need a 96 mile long wall with machine gun posts. Mind you all those East German Guards from Berlin are out of a job and there must be some bricks lying around.


Or, we could dig a huge moat and fill it with starving crocodiles?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Sweety said:


> Or, we could dig a huge moat and fill it with starving crocodiles?


Best idea I have heard yet..... lets hope salmond tries to cross first lol


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> It would be impossible to border control. We'd need a 96 mile long wall with machine gun posts. Mind you all those East German Guards from Berlin are out of a job and there must be some bricks lying around.


I wander how they would wonder.

Machine guns vs buckfast bottles.. good luck guys. I'd rather take a bullet


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Or, we could dig a huge moat and fill it with starving crocodiles?


If we starved them the RSPCA would get involved and the water would run out the ends into the sea. You haven't thought this through have you.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> If we starved them the RSPCA would get involved and the water would run out the ends into the sea. You haven't thought this through have you.


Eh the SSPCA, they're probably scottish crocs


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> I do wonder why anyone would vote yes... Mr Salmond cant answer any question asked of him.
> If people believe that the country will support itself by fuel revenue im afraid they are sadly mistaken.
> Scotland will not get the pound, nor will they get nhs or pension's or benefits. ..Alex, has literally just said there will be no border control? ! Does he really think that we will allow people to wonder into our country?
> Where is he going to get the money to replace all the oil rigs equipment. ..england subsidised that...


there has never been any border control into our country for decades from the republic of ireland.

its fine, we have a shared heritage all as part of the british isles. why would you want to erect fences and guards?

they might not get the pound, and i dont see why they should

they already have the NHS. why would they not have the NHS???

they will have the oil, but its finite. the money for maintaining and updating the rigs would generate exactly the same they do know, from the companies that run them under contract. why would this change?
england didnt subsidise anything to do with the rigs, the UK was involved in the finances, NOT england

you might have a point about the pensions, but i dont know anything about pensions


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> they're probably scottish crocs


The only real Scottish dinosaur is Nessie. Does Nessie have a vote ? I had to lookup Buckfast bottles. £6m a year those monks are making but their vows mean they can't spend it on hookers so it all goes on drugs.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> The only real Scottish dinosaur is Nessie. Does Nessie have a vote ? I had to lookup Buckfast bottles. £6m a year those monks are making but their vows mean they can't spend it on hookers so it all goes on drugs.


You had to look up buckfast???

Dead to me. You are dead to me.

Nessie doesn't respect democracy, always a no show on voting daysand every other day.
Fortunately all the haggi (pluralism) have been given ballot papers, will be good to see what the little critters think.

And the only real scottish dinosaur is big Sean Connery.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> If we starved them the RSPCA would get involved and the water would run out the ends into the sea. You haven't thought this through have you.


You're right, I haven't thought this through at all. 

Who would own the crocs? England or Scotland?

Who would own the water? That would have to be Scotland. Apparently, there isn't any water (or wind) in England.

Would it be the RSPCA or SSPCA? It matters because, apparently, England are creating a lack of compassion for animals in Scotland.

Also, who would own the sea? Will there be a border in the sea?

Where's Belinda when you need her?


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> there has never been any border control into our country for decades from the republic of ireland.
> 
> its fine, we have a shared heritage all as part of the british isles. why would you want to erect fences and guards?
> 
> ...


They wont get a currency union
they may well have their own nhs but it wont be funded by the uk..
they wsnt to walk away from the UK'S debt therefore we can take a claim to all our assets 
good luck to em


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

harley bear said:


> I have to ask if there are any YES voters on here, and why you would vote yes?


On twitter a lot are voting yes because they are sick to death of corrupt Westminster politics. They see the rich getting richer while more & more poor people have to rely on food banks to survive. Austerity isn't for the rich. Many of those ive seen voting yes, want an opportunity to create a fairer society, to save their NHS etc.

I mean is there any wonder just look at this - the Duke of Westminster, one of UK's largest land owners with vast a estate in Scotland & elsewhere, hes worth £8.5 BILLION - Guess what? he gets £750K public funds yearly

Danny Alexander, architect of austerity, is one of 148 MP's who claims £10,000 for his kids!!

while ordinary people are being squeezed & their NHS being stolen!

.

the Duke of


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sweety said:


> You're right, I haven't thought this through at all.
> 
> Who would own the crocs? England or Scotland?
> 
> ...


Let me help you out here.

Crocs we will split, you can have the head end you're welcome.
Not England, the english and in particular Simon Cowell creating a lack of compassion for animals in Scotland, particularly Subo.
The seas are the queen's
The fish belong to the Spaniards

Glad we sorted that out. Phew. 
You guys can keep lulu


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Let me help you out here.
> 
> Crocs we will split, you can have the head end you're welcome.
> Not England, the english and in particular Simon Cowell creating a lack of compassion for animals in Scotland, particularly Subo.
> ...


And the pound


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

harley bear said:


> And the pound


Yeah. We need that for all the badly treated animals.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> And the pound


You're not playing the game right.

Your suggestion doesn't fit with my policies.

I'm taking lulu back and writing to Simon cow ell, as i think Jimmy Nail will do the crocs a mischief


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> Yeah. We need that for all the badly treated animals.


Totally!


----------



## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

We will have smackeroonies didn't you know?

I'm a No vote but family are a Yes.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Let me help you out here.
> 
> Crocs we will split, you can have the head end you're welcome.
> Not England, the english and in particular Simon Cowell creating a lack of compassion for animals in Scotland, particularly Subo.
> ...


Oh now, but if you get the rear end of the croc and it lays eggs, who will own the eggs?

Which came first, the croc or the egg?

Don't really want Lulu, but I wouldn't say no to a share in Sean Connery.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> You're not playing the game right.
> 
> Your suggestion doesn't fit with my policies.
> 
> I'm taking lulu back and writing to Simon cow ell, as i think Jimmy Nail will do the crocs a mischief


May I suggest we donate Geremy Kyle.... in exchange for an ectra croc?


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Oh now, but if you get the rear end of the croc and it lays eggs, who will own the eggs?
> 
> Which came first, the croc or the egg?
> 
> Don't really want Lulu, but I wouldn't say no to a share in Sean Connery.


Sean doesn't even get a pension anymore, he's so old.

The egg came first , in evolutionary terms.

We will trade the eggs for yorkshire puddings


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Let me help you out here.


I'm struggling with this one. In an Independent Scotland, what happens to PoundLand ? Are they just called Land since there will be no Pound. It doesn't have the same ring to it.


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> May I suggest we donate Geremy Kyle.... in exchange for an ectra croc?


I'm sorry your application for extradition has been declined.

However vast swathes of Scots will never achieve tv fame in the face of independence


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> I'm struggling with this one. In an Independent Scotland, what happens to PoundLand ? Are they just called Land since there will be no Pound. It doesn't have the same ring to it.


Think they just get rebranded 'stealstuff'

More appeal


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Think they just get rebranded 'stealstuff'
> 
> More appeal


Salmond and Darling would have got more viewers for their debates if they'd had this script. Be sure to pass it on.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky063875123 said:


> I'm sorry your application for extradition has been declined.
> 
> However vast swathes of Scots will never achieve tv fame in the face of independence


Shucks,....Katie Price...she will keep Scotland afloat for a while LOL


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Right.

Off to bed. Night night fellow Brits and other nationals of other places. Early start tomorrow!

Cheerio!


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Sean doesn't even get a pension anymore, he's so old.
> 
> The egg came first , in evolutionary terms.
> 
> We will trade the eggs for yorkshire puddings


We'll see your eggs and raise you Bakewell tarts and Lancashire Hotpot.

Sean doesn't need a pension. He has 'M' and Miss Moneypenny batting for him. He also has a car that can operate in the air and underwater and fire high powered bullets at anyone who irritates him.

I once saw Colin Hendry in a kilt. Now he IS worth bargaining for.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sweety said:


> We'll see your eggs and raise you Bakewell tarts and Lancashire Hotpot.
> 
> Sean doesn't need a pension. He has 'M' and Miss Moneypenny batting for him. He also has a car that can operate in the air and underwater and fire high powered bullets at anyone who irritates him.
> 
> I once saw* Colin Hendry in a kilt.* Now he IS worth bargaining for.


This pretty much just guaranteed me a nightmare.

Night Sweety!


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweety said:


> He also has a car that can operate in the air and underwater and fire high powered bullets at anyone who irritates him.


"Now" you've solved the border control problem. Underwater flying cars with high powered bullets. When we all put our minds to it look what we can achieve. Better Together.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm so glad to have been of help.

(Simpers modestly and shuffles off to sort out other Countries).

Goodnight Julesky.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I wasn't going to comment but I feel like I should.

I am a yes voter, I might be young and I might not be fully educated on the referendum but I know enough to make an educated choice.

I absolutely believe Scotland can do it, not because of the oil but the country as a whole, we have so much more to offer than just fuel, and I feel that Westminster is holding us back from all we could be.

We want to share the debt, we want to work with the rest of the UK...the only people saying we don't are the people trying to scare us into voting no.

I can honestly say there are some members on here who I respected until I read this thread, some of the attitudes towards us scots aren't very pleasant 

I've seen statistics on both sides, I've seen debates and I've talked to various people with expertise in various areas....and apart from 1 small doubt I am confidant and happy with my choice.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

cant understand myself why people on both sides are getting so bitter about this whole thing.

its just a democratic exercise, it will go one way or the other.
obviously, each side has its argument for and against

how on earth someone just pointing something out is then determine as 'bullying' is a mystery to me

'bullying' seems to one of those fashionable words used and abused for political or argumentative reasons these days, just like the words 'troll', 'terroist', 'racist', 'politically correct', 'daily mail reader', so on so forth.

lots of words people dont seem to know the actual meanings of words anymore, just use them for hyperbole. too many people cant seem to have a discussion about just the content and points that form a discussion, without making comments about a person holding the discussion

not enough tolerance


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

ballybee said:


> I wasn't going to comment but I feel like I should.
> 
> I am a yes voter, I might be young and I might not be fully educated on the referendum but I know enough to make an educated choice.
> 
> ...


If you are old enough to vote, you are old enough to have an opinion, and be allowed to vote.

I don't think _anyone_ is fully educated on the referendum - that would mean both sides were being completely honest and transparent - and _no_ politician is ever that - _ever_!

Its refreshing to read an opinion from someone that has their reasons for voting, reasons that they believe in, that isn't trying to ram a yes or no vote down everyone else throat.

If I were in Scotland I honestly don't know how I would vote, but then as I am not in Scotland, and not allowed a vote anyway, I haven't thought_ too_ deeply on it - because I can't make a difference to the outcome without a vote.

I want the vote to go the way that will give the maximum amount of benefit to the maximum amount of people - I just don't know what vote would give that outcome.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I want the vote to go the way that will give the maximum amount of benefit to the maximum amount of people - I just don't know what vote would give that outcome.


I think the outcome of the vote will shake up far more than simply the UK.

How will it affect separatist movement in other areas..
Catalonia in Spain..
Basque Region in France..

In fact, although a wiki page List of active separatist movements in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia shows quite a few separatist movements. Admittingly most have no chance.

Also generally unsure of potential jitters in the financial markets for the whole of the UK. How will that effect the rest of the EU?

Militarily, Russia flexing it's muscles is another issue. I'm actually more concerned about that than the ISIS threat, probably influenced by inlaws who are no longer with us. How long before Russian troops roll into Ukraine and hold a referendum at gunpoint pointing to Scotland as a precedent and saying why can't Crimea when Scotland does? What can NATO do when it's having to reshuffle itself and it's military position? Which country will be next on their list in a few years. After all, what they are doing in Ukraine is just slightly different to Georgia in 2008.

Whatever the result, I hope that it's clear cut and a large majority.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm still trawling this thread to catch up, don't know whats gone off but I'm sorry to see we have a banning :/



lilythepink said:


> I would like to remain part of the Union. No matter which politician we have running the show they are all the same.
> 
> I think Scotland needs to have more control over running the country but, "United we stand, Divided we fall," springs to mind here too.
> 
> I live in North East Scotland so its more than 300 miles to Westminster....we moved from NW England...also more than 200 miles from London..should NW England also govern itself?..does this mean then that the people in Caithness and the Islands should have their own parliament cos of distance and people further down country not really understanding life for an Islander?


I think we should have more power regionally. I live up't north Lily where the north south divide is wider than ever, so infact I would go one further for us, imo WE should be given a democratic vote for a chance to break away from the westmonster as well! :devil: lol

Russell Brand has been on fire lately - his latest 'trews' report is worth listening to

[youtube_browser]/u7VNQih51T0[/youtube_browser]


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> UKIP coming first in the euros, scotland voting to leave, please, anything anywhere to destroy the corrupt LibLabCon westminster status quo


Like the other 3 clowns, why do you think Farage was up in Scotland to beg people to vote no? because UKIP are also part of the establishment. Further proof they serve the rich & corporate bodies is their supporting of the TTIP deal. UKIP coming first in the euros was bad news.

.

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Like the other 3 clowns, why do you think Farage was up in Scotland to beg people to vote no? because UKIP are also part of the establishment. Further proof they serve the rich & corporate bodies is their supporting of the TTIP deal. UKIP coming first in the euros was bad news.
> 
> .


that wasnt my point


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> that wasnt my point


No, I know what your point was, but them breaking up the status quo is more of the same - but worse imo. They aren't a genuine alternative to what we have already.

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> No, I know what your point was, but them breaking up the status quo is more of the same - but worse imo. They aren't a genuine alternative to what we have already.
> 
> .


no, it was about breaking up the established first past the post central government left-right lab/con status quo electoral system.

anything that hasten that along, UKIP wins, scottish independence, voting to leave EU = good

all of this would hasten in PR, for the one thing


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

ballybee said:


> I wasn't going to comment but I feel like I should.
> 
> I am a yes voter, I might be young and I might not be fully educated on the referendum but I know enough to make an educated choice.
> 
> ...


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, throughout the uk.

I haven't personally spoken to a yes voter myself so would be very interesting to have a discussion about the situation as a whole.

Personally, if i was able to vote i would be voting NO, why?

Alex Salmomd has not asswered one question directly, he dances round issues and makes himself look like a complete wolly. The other day he was asked a direct question about the future of Scotland...he answered that this campaign was all about getting more power for Scotland. Yes, but what are the plans for the future and how does he plan to sustain the country?

Scotland have it pretty cushty atm ... no medical bills, no prescription bills, education paid for etc etc - What IS the plan for this when they go independent? The answer to that is there simply is no answer...

What are they going to do without a bank? Last time i heard RBS was owned by the BRITISH ...but im sure we will let them buy it back if the funds are raised.

There is no way on Gods green earth that Scotland will manage on just the oil....Lower taxes, More NHS funding, free education, free prescriptions..
How is anything going to happen without a currency anyway?

Alex is literally going to get this vote then cross his fingers that he can have the pound, he cant....Scotland WILL become a foreign country, it would make as much sense as is giving the pound to the southern irish.

I was on the NO train, but now i really want tthe yes vote, why? because Scotland are trying to look out for number 1, so thats exactly what we should do. Infact i think we should be able to vote on if we actually want them in the Uk.

I think its silly and a sign of desperation that migrants who have been in the country weeks are allowed a vote.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, throughout the uk.
> 
> I haven't personally spoken to a yes voter myself so would be very interesting to have a discussion about the situation as a whole.
> 
> ...


the bank point is incorrect

all countries have a State bank. in the UK its called Bank Of England, for one example

Scotland will also have one

All other banks are just private companies that operate in most countries in the world, including scotland, which will be the same if they get independence.
RBS is a 'private bank' that just got bought out by the State due to financial problems and will eventually go private again


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> the bank point is incorrect
> 
> all countries have a State bank. in the UK its called Bank Of England, for one example
> 
> ...


So what bank will they be using exactly? Because i have read that banks are going to be moving to England if they vote Yes.

Again, all my points should be set in stone and they should have a proper plan of action...not lets wait till friday, if we go independent we will cross our fingers in hope everything we want from England we will get'. 
The guy is totally deluded.

What is his plan B? Its alright saying he wants this, that and the other after they are independent...but what happens WHEN we dont roll over to his demands? He has been asked this in interviews and couldn't give an answer.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

We are stepping into the abyss!....time will tell if the correct result will benefit Scotland,scottish Russian roulette!.Cameroon et all appearing here would have just galvanised yes voters.thing is if Scotland gets indy more countries may follow suit.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> We are stepping into the abyss!....time will tell if the correct result will benefit Scotland,scottish Russian roulette!.Cameroon et all appearing here would have just galvanised yes voters.thing is if Scotland gets indy more countries may follow suit.


As in wales? They cant sustain themselves so they wont be going anywhere.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> So what bank will they be using exactly? Because i have read that banks are going to be moving to England if they vote Yes.
> 
> Again, all my points should be set in stone and they should have a proper plan of action...not lets wait till friday, if we go independent we will cross our fingers in hope everything we want from England we will get'.
> The guy is totally deluded.
> ...


no, the banks meant they were moving their HQ's to england, not closing down all their branches. you will have banks on the high street in scotland whatever happens, just like any country in most of the world. (and online banking, of course). and they will have a Central Bank, just like most other countries

you make some good general points about definitive economic plans for the future of scotland, but in today's world economy where nearly all countries are operating under debts of trillions or billions or are effectively bankrupt, which includes the whole of the EU, Uk, and USA, you could essentially make the same point to anyone

so if scotland doesnt get to use the pound, and i dont see why they should, they will just create their own currency, just like Ireland did when they became independent


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

harley bear said:


> As in wales? They cant sustain themselves so they wont be going anywhere.


 this is my fear....I would not want my children paying higher taxes to sustain Scotland,change is needed but I think separation is a step to far,my daughter at 23 and a phd student has already advised she may end up abroad for employment.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> I live up't north Lily where the north south divide is wider than ever


Never have guessed  Where does devolution stop.. When each constituancy has their own parliament?



> Like the other 3 clowns, why do you think Farage was up in Scotland to beg people to vote no? because UKIP are also part of the establishment. Further proof they serve the rich & corporate bodies is their supporting of the TTIP deal. UKIP coming first in the euros was bad news.


Your evidence for this as you mention proof? After all the TTIP deal is between the States and the EU, not the UK. UK leaves the EU all the trade agreements need to be redone. UKIP will push to leave the EU or is that just another conspiricy about big business. After all big business doesn't want to leave the EU. My impression was Farage was up there as if he wasn't, neither his party nor himself would be seen as a major player in the political scene. His party needs to be seen as important as the others. It's propaganda.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> this is my fear....I would not want my children paying higher taxes to sustain Scotland,change is needed but I think separation is a step to far,my daughter at 23 and a phd student has already advised she may end up abroad for employment.


We won't have to sustain them if they go and we keep the pound. 
If they stay, well thats a different story.

I hope there is a huge sway of yes voters tomorrow


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Never have guessed  Where does devolution stop.. When each constituancy has their own parliament?
> 
> Your evidence for this as you mention proof? After all the TTIP deal is between the States and the EU, not the UK. UK leaves the EU all the trade agreements need to be redone. UKIP will push to leave the EU or is that just another conspiricy about big business. After all big business doesn't want to leave the EU. My impression was Farage was up there as if he wasn't, neither his party nor himself would be seen as a major player in the political scene. His party needs to be seen as important as the others. It's propaganda.


the UK is in the EU. so any current trade deal negotiations between USA and EU does include UK, unless they make a point of keeping out of it?

Is this what the Uk is doing? (I hope so)


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

harley bear said:


> We won't have to sustain them if they go and we keep the pound.
> If they stay, well thats a different story.
> 
> I hope there is a huge sway of yes voters tomorrow


 my ass is kinda sore with sitting on the fence,i have voted no but I still feel in my heart I should have voted yes! food banks,services decimated,genuine benefit claiments put through hell.....picking skelves out my derriere now!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> the bank point is incorrect
> 
> all countries have a State bank. in the UK its called Bank Of England, for one example
> 
> ...


Exactly, the "bank of last resort" that is why Salmond wants a currency union so that the Bank of England back the Scottish currency. If Scotland vote for independence it will effectively be a foreign country, why would England be involved in another countries currency and finances its senseless to expect.

I am surprised at the faith in Salmond - he is a politician afterall and will be the same as the rest of them its ingrained to the bone!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> the UK is in the EU. so any current trade deal negotiations between USA and EU does include UK


At present. If the UK leaves the EU (as Farage is pushing for) do we know what happens to those trade agreements? I would imagine trade agreements would need to be renegotiated. I don't envy the Scots if they leave who need to "negotiate" goodness knows how many treaties and alliances. I'm sure a lot of it will be simply be rubber stamps of adaptations (change United Kingdom of Great Britain to Scotland) of those currently with the UK but all that international red tape  I wonder if they'll find anything interesting like officially the UK still own Calais...


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> my ass is kinda sore with sitting on the fence,i have voted no but I still feel in my heart I should have voted yes! food banks,services decimated,genuine benefit claiments put through hell.....picking skelves out my derriere now!


Look at it this way.. you are not the only one making the decision


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> my ass is kinda sore with sitting on the fence,i have voted no but I still feel in my heart I should have voted yes! food banks,services decimated,genuine benefit claiments put through hell.....picking skelves out my derriere now!


I think there are a hell of alot who are uncertain.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> Never have guessed  Where does devolution stop.. When each constituancy has their own parliament?
> 
> Pleased my regional identity comes through When we have a fairer society.
> 
> Your evidence for this as you mention proof? After all the TTIP deal is between the States and the EU, not the UK. UK leaves the EU all the trade agreements need to be redone. UKIP will push to leave the EU or is that just another conspiricy about big business. After all big business doesn't want to leave the EU. My impression was Farage was up there as if he wasn't, neither his party nor himself would be seen as a major player in the political scene. His party needs to be seen as important as the others. It's propaganda.


Cameron wants to lock the UK into the TTIP deal, once we are locked in that's it, the big corporations own us. Cameron could exempt our NHS but he wont.

Have look at this article by Owen Jones Goblin > The TTIP deal hands British sovereignty to multinationals | Owen Jones | Comment is free | The Guardian

Agree that the Farage visit was a PR stunt.

[youtube_browser]/FR7Z7IOMKbQ[/youtube_browser]



Tails and Trails said:


> the UK is in the EU. so any current trade deal negotiations between USA and EU does include UK, unless they make a point of keeping out of it?
> 
> Is this what the Uk is doing? (I hope so)


No, the UK Govt are desperate to sign up to the agreement T&T.

_TTIP was a key pledge from Mr Cameron during Britain's presidency of the G8 last year. EU governments and the US say it will create jobs and boost the economy by sweeping away trade restrictions. _

David Cameron urged to exempt the NHS from TTIP deal after unions claim it is at risk from being sold to American corporations - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Pleased my regional identity comes through When we have a fairer society.


Define fair.. take from rich to give to poor simply as they are poor? Provide jobs for everyone no matter what.. They tried that in Russia and elsewhere. Mugabe did it in Zimbabwe with farms. Didn't work and still had the elite aristocracy. You think that the rich in Scotland are going to really be any different than those in the UK? Do you really think Salmond and the like aren't in it for themselves?



noushka05 said:


> Have look at this article by Owen Jones Goblin


I know about TTIP, I did the direct EU bit when they "wanted the people's points of view" after it was first mentioned on this forum and I did a bit of investigation  I simply don't see why you introduced it into this thread.



> No, the UK Govt are desperate to sign up to the agreement T&T.


Which should become null and void if we leave the EU so nothing to really to do with Scotland or Farage's motives for a trip to Scotland in support of it.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

just sending Miliband and Cameron to Scotland may persuade indecisive ones to opt out...


I being Britsh would rather Scotland stayed....obviously...


maybe promise to choose PM from Scotland from now on...and put Gordon Brown back in power?


seriously he is much preferable to all the rest of them!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Never have guessed  Where does devolution stop.. When each constituancy has their own parliament?


I think that would actually be a better way to do things.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

harley bear said:


> I think there are a hell of alot who are uncertain.


 very true,think we are winging it.all the old clichés,,que sera sera,putting all your eggs in one basket are playing in my head! as kevin bridges(Scottish comedian) observed we can start adjusting gmt.....Friday will start at 6pm and Tuesday will become the start to the working week...lol


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> very true,think we are winging it.all the old clichés,,que sera sera,putting all your eggs in one basket are playing in my head! as kevin bridges(Scottish comedian) observed we can start adjusting gmt.....Friday will start at 6pm and Tuesday will become the start to the working week...lol


You have to admit, Salmond is a very clever man, he seems to have rounded people up like sheep to follow him and no one knows what the bloody hell he is going to do if he gets the power he so desperately wants.

I could understand the support for him if he had a solid plan A, and a plan B if plan A were to fail....but he is winging it.

The televised debate with Salmond and Darling a few weeks back was utterly ridiculous, Darling blew him out the water and Salmond was standing shouting 'bully! bully!' and trying to discuss a throw away comment that was made about Scotland driving on the right side of the road! --- people want to know what he is going to do about currency, banks, pensions, education, army etc etc we (the english) would love to know what his plan A is....that is of course when he has come down from his power trip and come to the realisation Scotland will be going it alone.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

harley bear said:


> You have to admit, Salmond is a very clever man, he seems to have rounded people up like sheep to follow him and no one knows what the bloody hell he is going to do if he gets the power he so desperately wants.
> 
> I could understand the support for him if he had a solid plan A, and a plan B if plan A were to fail....but he is winging it.
> 
> The televised debate with Salmond and Darling a few weeks back was utterly ridiculous, Darling blew him out the water and Salmond was standing shouting 'bully! bully!' and trying to discuss a throw away comment that was made about Scotland driving on the right side of the road! --- people want to know what he is going to do about currency, banks, pensions, education, army etc etc we (the english) would love to know what his plan A is....that is of course when he has come down from his power trip and come to the realisation Scotland will be going it alone.


 Tommy Sheridan in the 80,s had us all wipped up too!.....don't pay the poll tax!....result was we were threatened with poindings,houses sold for a few k and jail.in fact I received a poll tax bill last year,from 1999,i cant remember yesterday let alone 15yrs ago.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> Define fair.. take from rich to give to poor simply as they are poor? Provide jobs for everyone no matter what.. They tried that in Russia and elsewhere. Mugabe did it in Zimbabwe with farms. Didn't work and still had the elite aristocracy. You think that the rich in Scotland are going to really be any different than those in the UK? Do you really think Salmond and the like aren't in it for themselves?
> 
> I'll define you 'unfair' - Austerity. My hubby grafts in a foundry, he works in a horrible & dangerous environment yet he hasn't has a pay rise in 3 years!
> 
> ...


TTIP is actually very relevant to this thread. The fact that #TTIP was trending on twitter in Scotland tweets the other day, is proof the Scottish are very astute to the danger this poses to their NHS and beautiful environment etc - and a reason to vote yes for many.

Why do you think Cameron is so keen to get the deal wrapped up? When they have sold off our NHS to giant corporations, fracked & poisoned our land, how easy do you think it will be to reverse this if we leave the EU? We would have to pay corporations billions!

EU-US Free Trade Agreement TTIP or TAFTA on Vimeo




.

.

.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

What I cant understand is Cameron and Co and all the others rushing up to Scotland promising this and that if Scotland vote NO if they are promising all this why did'nt they do it before.All I can say is dont believe a word as when they canvas for our votes at elections they promise the earth and then we get diddly squat.x


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

[youtube_browser]u7VNQih51T0[/youtube_browser]

Russel Brand telling it how it is as usual 

WARNING: Contains some bad language


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

suewhite said:


> What I cant understand is Cameron and Co and all the others rushing up to Scotland promising this and that if Scotland vote NO


I agree, it's not as though other parts of England aren't in need of additional cash and would be happy to have the same as Scotland currently have.



noushka05 said:


> Like the other 3 clowns, why do you think Farage was up in Scotland to beg people to vote no? because UKIP are also part of the establishment. Further proof they serve the rich & corporate bodies is their supporting of the TTIP deal. UKIP coming first in the euros was bad news.


TTIP is something I agree with you with by the way, just not on this thread. Still don't see your logic. UKIP goal is to leave the EU. TTIP = EU based. Therefore the SNP are commited to TTIP if the EU adopt it. With what are they going to bargain with if they want an exemption?



> is proof the Scottish are very astute to the danger this poses to their NHS and beautiful environment etc - and a reason to vote yes for many.


Yet Scots are voting to be dependent on oil as the primary basis of their finances. Scary when you consider Onshore oil and gas exploration boom predicted - Oil and Gas News You think a government dependent on oil will restrict the exploitation of it? Or is it simply that oil wells in the north sea are out of sight, out of mind?

We've already had the lies from Salmond talking about finances for the NHS where he's stated they have no control. How is it that the SNP reduced spending on the Scottish NHS whilst NHS funding went up in the rest of the UK? Not enough increase in my mind but what makes you think the lies will not continue?



noushka05 said:


> I'll define you 'unfair' - Austerity. My hubby grafts in a foundry, he works in a horrible & dangerous environment yet he hasn't has a pay rise in 3 years!


I've been in positions where a company hasn't given anybody a payrise for some time. I've also been made redundant which is worse than not getting a pay rise. I have never called it Austerity. I've simply tightened by belt or picked myself up and moved on. The term is used too frequently in modern society. Maybe we should all go back to ration books to learn the meaning of the word. How much edible food stuff is simply thrown away each year in the UK? How much was thrown away 60 years ago? I'm not disputing there are people who genuinely need assistance, it's just they get drowned out by those who simply look at others and feel "they've got more than me therefore it's wrong".


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sorry to pop in with a question not having read the whole thread.

Can anyone tell me what % vote is needed for independence to proceed? I'm assuming its more that just 51% but not sure??


----------



## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry to pop in with a question not having read the whole thread.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what % vote is needed for independence to proceed? I'm assuming its more that just 51% but not sure??


Nope, 51% will do it.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

tabulahrasa said:


> Nope, 51% will do it.


Blimey/ I assumed it would be at least 55% over either way. Can see why they are all working so hard to try and win over the undecided.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry to pop in with a question not having read the whole thread.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what % vote is needed for independence to proceed? I'm assuming its more that just 51% but not sure??


if there were 10 millions votes, 5 million and 1 votes would do

ie, 1 vote above 50%


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

It has to be 55% thats what sky news were saying the other day. ..


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> I agree, it's not as though other parts of England aren't in need of additional cash and would be happy to have the same as Scotland currently have.
> 
> TTIP is something I agree with you with by the way, just not on this thread. Still don't see your logic. UKIP goal is to leave the EU. TTIP = EU based. Therefore the SNP are commited to TTIP if the EU adopt it. With what are they going to bargain with if they want an exemption?
> 
> ...


Yes, and we've both been made redundant - me twice, my hubby five times - in the miners strike he, my Dad, his Dad went without pay for a year - but this isn't hardship top trumps:hand: lol I gave my hubby as an example what is happening across the board to ordinary people. For the first time EVER midwifes have voted to strike because the govt has refused to give them a 1% payrise - MP's are getting a 9% payrise! This is about Govt's Austerity policy. Where the poorest in society, the disabled & ordinary people suffer its consequences while the rich don't suffer at all. The wealth of the top 1,000 has doubled in five years! . The govt have privatised our public services, given us foodbanks, workfare, ATOS, bedroom tax, zero contracts - permanent austerity! We are the 5th richest nation on the planet.

Do you think this is acceptable? >. Britain's five richest families worth more than poorest 20% | Business | The Guardian

Who could blame the Scots if they vote to get out of the UK? I certainly wouldn't. Whatever they decide, good luck to em, I hope this referendum brings them a fairer society.

.

.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> It has to be 55% thats what sky news were saying the other day. ..


sky news wrong

its 50% + 1


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

suewhite said:


> What I cant understand is Cameron and Co and all the others rushing up to Scotland promising this and that if Scotland vote NO if they are promising all this why did'nt they do it before.All I can say is dont believe a word as when they canvas for our votes at elections they promise the earth and then we get diddly squat.x


Here is the timetable for devolution if they vote no, Sue  lol


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Awful feeling it'll be #VoteYes that wins .

Come on Scotland be sensible *#VOTENO *


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

willa said:


> Awful feeling it'll be #VoteYes that wins .
> 
> Come on Scotland be sensible *#VOTENO *


im on tenterhooks hoping it will be a yes


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

willa said:


> Awful feeling it'll be #VoteYes that wins .
> 
> Come on Scotland be sensible *#VOTENO *


 ok give me your pup and I,ll consider it!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> im on tenterhooks hoping it will be a yes


and I'm on the fence

on one hand I hope they vote yes because I think its a once in a lifetime opportunity for the Scottish to create a better society.

on't tuther hand If they do vote yes, I fear we will be stuck with another tory govt. This will be certain death to 10's of thousands of our badgers as they intend to roll the cull out to 40 more areas.

,


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> ok give me your pup and I,ll consider it!


I said to OH it would be so funny if they has a yes verdict if the english sent folk up to drill the border and winch them away. ... BE FREEEEEEEE


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> I said to OH it would be so funny if they has a yes verdict if the english sent folk up to drill the border and winch them away. ... BE FREEEEEEEE


That's a good one.. you should send it in to the Daily Mail! Right up their street.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> That's a good one.. you should send it in to the Daily Mail! Right up their street.


could you imagine? lol


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> could you imagine? lol


Yes. It is perfect for the demographic.

Do you write for them


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

HB


From your general cut of your jib are your really terrified of immigration and look for border controls?

Don't be afraid.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

back to original post

a few people have stated the demo linked earlier was quite threatening and unpleasant

alastair darling pointed this out, but i accept some may say he would say that, wouldnt he?

however, george galloway, a chap you wouldnt expect, was very vocal in criticizing this demo and was scathing about the demands for Nick whathisface from the BBC to resign, and comments by jim stillers threatening banks and companies that opposed independence and said it would effect their scottish business operations. He's not thinking the BBC is biased, which is something for George to say!

So if you factor in different people with different particular philosophies, dont think the BBC is biased against scottish independence or by association the left of politics, and that there is a big idea amongst some tories that the BBC is institutionally left wing biased, being accused of being anti israel and pro gaza the most recent accusation (Jeremy Bowen is accused as a leftie on this occassion), then the whole idea that the BBC is politically biased is surely farcical! 

George opposes independence by the way, he says he does so as a full blooded left wing socialist


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> HB
> 
> From your general cut of your jib are your really terrified of immigration and look for border controls?
> 
> Don't be afraid.


No im not terrified of anything. ...but the NO vote.... its come to light that we will be 12 bn per yr better off..so maybe we will get free university places and prescriptions..Scotland think they are so hard done by, I myself feel it is time they went and supported themselves.

Like I have already said I was a No supporter...now im fed up of the rubbish..sooner its done the better.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> No im not terrified of anything. ...but the NO vote.... its come to light that we will be 12 bn per yr better off..so maybe we will get free university places and prescriptions..Scotland think they are so hard done by, I myself feel it is time they went and supported themselves.
> 
> Like I have already said I was a No supporter...now im fed up of the rubbish..sooner its done the better.


12 bn per year wont get us free uni places nor prescriptions, not when you think they are wasting all out money on our massive debt, one of the biggest debts in the whole world (in terms of GDP). I also dont think our current choices of parties have the right attitude for such ideas, anyway.

plus what we save we loose other ways, eg, no more oil revenue

so good luck to the scots.

PS - independence wouldnt create a physical border in the british isles anyway


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> No im not terrified of anything. ...but the NO vote.... its come to light that we will be 12 bn per yr better off..so maybe we will get free university places and prescriptions..Scotland think they are so hard done by, I myself feel it is time they went and supported themselves.
> 
> Like I have already said I was a No supporter...now im fed up of the rubbish..sooner its done the better.


Your chat is hilarious and borderline offensive/ very offensive. Doesn't offend me too much though.. its propaganda consumption at it's best.

Whatcha going to spend the 12bn on first?

I'm reneging on my earlier lulu offer, she's better up here with all our free prescriptions and stuff. 
Last I heard independence came with an offer of a free carriage clock, she'd like that


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> 12 bn per year wont get us free uni places nor prescriptions, not when you think they are wasting all out money on our massive debt, one of the biggest debts in the whole world (in terms of GDP). I also dont think our current choices of parties have the right attitude for such ideas, anyway.
> 
> plus what we save we loose other ways, eg, no more oil revenue
> 
> ...


Do you honestly think they will be able to walk away from their share of the debt?

Yes good luck to them, I have no bad feeling for them at all just totally fed up of the hard done by rubbish.

People forget that alex salmond is a politician. ..more to the point one that cant answer a bloody simple question!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Your chat is hilarious and borderline offensive/ very offensive. Doesn't offend me too much though.. its propaganda consumption at it's best.
> 
> Whatcha going to spend the 12bn on first?
> 
> ...


I am allowed my opinion. .I have not in any way been offensive.


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> I am allowed my opinion. .I have not in any way been offensive.


You are.
Secondly;
Hmmm. Debatable.

Maybe i just feel hard done by. ho ho ho


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

harley bear said:


> Do you honestly think they will be able to walk away from their share of the debt?


no.....................


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Do you honestly think they will be able to walk away from their share of the debt?


The reason this won't happen is not because they won't be able to do it.. but because it would be economic suicide.

This was all much more interesting when we were talking about flying cars and PoundLand.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Julesky said:


> You are.
> Secondly;
> Hmmm. Debatable.
> 
> Maybe i just feel hard done by. ho ho ho


have you not been listening to the great Alex? and the YES voters have been vile towards the english.

If thats what most people think then yes they should be able to leave the UK BUT if people believe all this thay are being fed by someone who cant even anser when he is asked his own name ... well there ya go.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Born in Scotland, Scottish ancestors for generations, living in England. Not really sure if I will be still be considered Scottish in any way on Friday. Wasn't given a vote so I suppose I must be English, as only Scottish people are allowed to decide the future of Scotland. 

Still at least I will know who to support when we all next play for the Calcutta cup. But I won't forgive you Mr Cameron, if you turn out to be the man whose complete misreading of the situation lost me part of my identity.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> The reason this won't happen is not because they won't be able to do it.. but because it would be economic suicide.


And it will be something thrashed out by the lawyers for example in return for a currency conclusion...


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

harley bear said:


> have you not been listening to the great Alex? *and the YES voters have been vile towards the english*.
> 
> All of them? What about the rest of the British Nations. HB what on Earth are you talking about..
> 
> If *thats what most people think* then yes they should be able to leave the UK BUT if people believe all this thay are being fed by someone who cant even anser when he is asked his own name ... well there ya go.


what is what most people think?
also plenty of YES people not voting for Salmond, there are other movements and parties pro independence. Chill. No one hates you guys, except when football is on. Mega paranoid. It's not about listening to Salmond it's about listening and assessing EVERYTHING.

There are no answers for any future, economics etc. changes things in such short timeframes regardless of union/separation.



Jonescat said:


> Born in Scotland, Scottish ancestors for generations, living in England. Not really sure if I will be still be considered Scottish in any way on Friday. Wasn't given a vote so I suppose I must be English, as only Scottish people are allowed to decide the future of Scotland.
> 
> Still at least I will know who to support when we all next play for the Calcutta cup. But I won't forgive you Mr Cameron, if you turn out to be the man whose complete misreading of the situation lost me part of my identity.


I feel for you jonescat.. not just Scottish people voting; from government website
British citizens resident in Scotland.
Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland who have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave.
Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.
Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.
Service personnel serving in the UK or overseas with the armed forces who are registered to vote in Scotland.
Crown personnel serving outside the UK with HM Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

Boy he did misread it though. Sucks you can't vote


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jonescat said:


> Born in Scotland, Scottish ancestors for generations, living in England. Not really sure if I will be still be considered Scottish in any way on Friday. Wasn't given a vote so I suppose I must be English, as only Scottish people are allowed to decide the future of Scotland.
> 
> Still at least I will know who to support when we all next play for the Calcutta cup. But I won't forgive you Mr Cameron, if you turn out to be the man whose complete misreading of the situation lost me part of my identity.


That must be quite upsetting 

How can that even be?

I suppose some English living in Scotland have a vote


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

rona said:


> That must be quite upsetting
> 
> How can that even be?
> 
> I suppose some English living in Scotland have a vote


Yeah, course they do Rona.

It's the rules that were set out by Scottish Government and UK government at the time when they were setting the wording of question etc.

Only voters living/working on electoral register in Scotland can vote, see above reply to Jonescat.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

harley bear said:


> have you not been listening to the great Alex? and the YES voters have been vile towards the english.
> 
> If thats what most people think then yes they should be able to leave the UK BUT if people believe all this thay are being fed by someone who cant even anser when he is asked his own name ... well there ya go.


 The majority of Yes voters I have come across have been quite the opposite.

Quoting Marcus Chown for the 2nd time today >>

_This is not about divide between people of Scotland & England. It's about divide between people & their out-of-touch politicians _

.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I'm really quite fed up of it all... I will be voting tomorrow but will be so happy 48 hours from now, when it's all over... Regardless of the outcome


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Well I can honestly say I haven't seen or heard anyone being vile to the English, quite the opposite actually but hey ho!!!

I love this argument that the yes voters are following Salmond like sheep, we follow him because he's leading this referendum!!! Of course he can't guarantee anything but I've always believed it's better to take a leap of faith than cower in the shadows.

I'm busy packing at the moment as we move house on Saturday but I'm still watching what's happening here as well, my aunt and her family attended a peaceful gathering in George Square tonight and it looked amazing, I was at the forth road bridges 50th birthday bash and the national pride was fantastic, everyone was so relaxed and we all had a great time.

No matter what happens tomorrow I will always be proud of my country and it's people, we stood up to those trying to bring us down and whether we split or not the UK will never be the same.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Good luck Scotland.. whatever you decide.

noushka05 .. did type a massive response but at the end of the day, whilst I agree about things like Mp payrises, the majority of the cries of austerity are simply jealousy that X has more. Get rid of that, targetting money for those who really need it and that would be the starting point. I have a roof over my head and a family I can support financially. I will defend my right for that despite people saying I can't have it as they have less.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> Good luck Scotland.. whatever you decide.
> 
> noushka05 .. did type a massive response but at the end of the day, whilst I agree about things like Mp payrises, the majority of the cries of austerity are simply jealousy that X has more. Get rid of that, targetting money for those who really need it and that would be the starting point. I have a roof over my head and a family I can support financially. I will defend my right for that despite people saying I can't have it as they have less.


Don't talk ridiculous. We have a roof over our head & have always supported ourselves & our family financially. Why would you feel the need to say this >I will defend my right for that despite people saying I can't have it as they have less  Are you one of the wealthiest top 1% ? I can assure you being Anti Austerity is not about the majority being jealous.

People are angry because they are being made to suffer for a situation they didn't create! It was the city that plunged this country into economic disaster, but they didn't suffer the consequences - infact they have never had it so good.! While they were bailed out, ordinary people are having their in and out of work benefits slashed or removed. What austerity really means is a ~ wealth transfer. Its the slashing of taxes for the rich, public assets being transferred into private hands, increasing the taxes & vat for those at the bottom, the stripping away of what remaining rights people have. This is the shifting the balance of power even further into those at the top at the expense of ordinary people & the most vulnerable in our society.

This is the Establishment grabbing back all the power & rights what democracy has given ordinary people - and they have plunged us £129 BILLION deeper into debt.

.

Anyway enough rabbiting! And ~~~

Good Luck To Our Scottish Friends On This Historical Day

.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

A message from Chunky Mark - the Artist taxi driver ~ _"Have so much love for all the people of Scotland you have reawakened us all.. You have given us all hope.. _ :thumbup:

[youtube_browser]/NIe5kS5M0JE[/youtube_browser]


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well at long last, the day is here!!!

Good Luck I hope you make the right decision :thumbup:


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> Well at long last, the day is here!!!
> 
> Good Luck I hope you make the right decision :thumbup:


 most pepps including myself don't know if right decision has been made....time will tell.wether your,e yay or nay good luck!


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> most pepps including myself don't know if right decision has been made....time will tell.wether your,e yay or nay good luck!


i think that everytime there is an election


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Not at all, they are protesting because coverage IS biased. >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are that. When the miners' strikes were on the coverage was very biased - and it wasn't till some time later that I found that much of what we even saw up here in the north was censored down south - people there had no idea what was happening. They were shown coverage which suggested that the miners were just trouble-making thugs - nothing that told the truth, which was that it wasn't just jobs going - it was entire communities being destroyed, and that people were (quite literally) so despairing that some took their own lives; others died of illness brought on through malnutrition (because remember - there were no benefits given to strikers. Families were torn apart physically and emotionally and communities have never recovered.

The government is interested in London and the Home counties - the rest of Britain is there to serve and feed the parasitic wealthy of the south.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> The majority of Yes voters I have come across have been quite the opposite.
> 
> *Quoting Marcus Chown for the 2nd time today >>
> 
> ...


_

Out of touch and totally uncaring. The politicians have a huge sense of entitlement and nowt else!

I'm sure that there a re a few back-benchers out there who work their @rses off trying to do the best for their constituents, but I think that they have so little power or influence that they are beating their heads against a brick wall.

Most of the buggers are obsessed with what they can get for themselves and nothing else.

Cameron points to China as they way our economy needs to go - China is a SLAVE ECONOMY, Dave - we've moved on from that, or should have. We don't want to see out kids go back to it!_


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Julesky said:


> *You had to look up buckfast???
> 
> Dead to me. You are dead to me.*
> 
> ...


Blimey - I'm English, and thanks to a mis-spent youth watching the great Scottish philosopher Rab C Nesbitt, I am well aware what Buckfast is. 

I hope that Scotland doesn't leave the Kingdom - I think e will all be the poorer for it, but if they do, can they take us northerners with them?

I would at least like a vote on re-instating the noble Kingdom of Northumbria, and then we could be free of the bloodsucking southern barstewards too.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> They are that. When the miners' strikes were on the coverage was very biased - and it wasn't till some time later that I found that much of what we even saw up here in the north was censored down south - people there had no idea what was happening. They were shown coverage which suggested that the miners were just trouble-making thugs - nothing that told the truth, which was that it wasn't just jobs going - it was entire communities being destroyed, and that people were (quite literally) so despairing that some took their own lives; others died of illness brought on through malnutrition (because remember - there were no benefits given to strikers. Families were torn apart physically and emotionally and communities have never recovered.
> 
> The government is interested in London and the Home counties - the rest of Britain is there to serve and feed the parasitic wealthy of the south.


come the revolution sister......

I remember the miners strikes very well....coal not dole...but the powers that be wouldn't listen.

I also saw coverage of miners and policemen playing football...and that wasn't widely broadcast either.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Blimey - I'm English, and thanks to a mis-spent youth watching the great Scottish philosopher Rab C Nesbitt, I am well aware what Buckfast is.
> 
> I hope that Scotland doesn't leave the Kingdom - I think e will all be the poorer for it, but if they do, can they take us northerners with them?
> 
> I would at least like a vote on re-instating the noble Kingdom of Northumbria, and then we could be free of the bloodsucking southern barstewards too.


trying to ban buckfast.

"To Nothumberland.........................."lol


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> This is the Establishment grabbing back all the power & rights what democracy has given ordinary people - and they have plunged us £129 BILLION deeper into debt..


So was that the Tories then...

Oh may be interested in Salmond's dangerous corporatism exposed Â» Spectator Blogs

Miners were a disposible pawn to the Union elite who didn't care about them at the end of the day. It was about power.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Goblin said:


> So was that the Tories then...
> 
> Oh may be interested in Salmond's dangerous corporatism exposed Â» Spectator Blogs
> 
> Miners were a disposible pawn to the Union elite who didn't care about them at the end of the day. It was about power.


oh yes, Maggie Thatcher set her stall out.....and the rest is history.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Goblin said:


> So was that the Tories then...
> 
> Oh may be interested in Salmond's dangerous corporatism exposed Â» Spectator Blogs
> 
> *Miners were a disposible pawn to the Union elite who didn't care about them at the end of the day. It was about power*.


Have to admit Scargill's arrogance caused him to play right into her uncaring hands.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Have to admit Scargill's arrogance caused him to play right into her uncaring hands.


yes...ego V well planned strategy


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Goblin said:


> So was that the Tories then...


Part ( or most ) of the problem is that they only have to balance the books for 4 years. If I only had to balance the books for 4 years I'd have a fleet of supercars and several mansions all on borrowed money. At the end I'd pass all the debt on to you and leave you to sort the mess out then come on to PF and start a thread about how poor you are at money management.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> Part ( or most ) of the problem is that they only have to balance the books for 4 years. If I only had to balance the books for 4 years I'd have a fleet of supercars and several mansions all on borrowed money. At the end I'd pass all the debt on to you and leave you to sort the mess out then come on to PF and start a thread about how poor you are at money management.


Mmmm - why do I get this feeling of deja vu?

Oh - yeah! This has happened every four years for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

diefenbaker said:


> Part ( or most ) of the problem is that they only have to balance the books for 4 years. If I only had to balance the books for 4 years I'd have a fleet of supercars and several mansions all on borrowed money. At the end I'd pass all the debt on to you and leave you to sort the mess out then come on to PF and start a thread about how poor you are at money management.


and therein, in as nutshell, is the post war baby boomer left-right consumerist/materialist/production/globalisation economic growth/credit system model and paradigm.

lets face it, all those supposed 'enlightened' hippy counter culture 'radicals' from the 60's turned old, greedy, fat, and comfortable, and just voted for parties of the left and right that promised them short terms gain, screw the future, their own children, grandchildren, and further.

not only did they eat up all their own pies, they also ate up all the pies reserved for people that would be still around when they are dead and buried.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> and therein, in as nutshell, is the post war baby boomer left-right consumerist/materialist/production/globalisation economic growth/credit system model and paradigm.
> 
> lets face it, all those supposed 'enlightened' hippy counter culture 'radicals' from the 60's turned old, greedy, fat, and comfortable, and just voted for parties of the left and right that promised them short terms gain, screw the future, their own children, grandchildren, and further.
> 
> not only did they eat up all their own pies, they also ate up all the pies reserved for people that would be still around when they are dead and buried.


As horrific a picture that you paint. I have to say I believe you are correct.
Not only "did" they do that, they are still doing it


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> and therein, in as nutshell, is the post war baby boomer left-right consumerist/materialist/production/globalisation economic growth/credit system model and paradigm.
> 
> lets face it, all those supposed 'enlightened' hippy counter culture 'radicals' from the 60's turned old, greedy, fat, and comfortable, and just voted for parties of the left and right that promised them short terms gain, screw the future, their own children, grandchildren, and further.
> 
> not only did they eat up all their own pies, they also ate up all the pies reserved for people that would be still around when they are dead and buried.


Really? How very wise you are.

I'm from that Generation, the WHOLE Generation you are condemning in one sweeping statement.

I'm 'from' the 60s and I can assure you, I'm not "Fat", I'm not "Greedy" and I'm not a "Radical".

So that Generation of 'Fat Cats' is to blame for everything that's wrong in Society now?

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Really? How very wise you are.
> 
> I'm from that Generation, the WHOLE Generation you are condemning in one sweeping statement.
> 
> ...


I think it was more about the change of attitude that started with the new found wealth of the time, not at individuals as such.
You've got to admit that people in general are more selfish

Were you born in the 60s?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

rona said:


> I think it was more about the change of attitude that started with the new found wealth of the time, not at individuals as such.
> You've got to admit that people in general are more selfish
> 
> Were you born in the 60s?


I was born in the early 1950s.

When you say people in general are more selfish, what do you mean?

That people were selfish in the 1960s or that people are more selfish now?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sweety said:


> I was born in the early 1950s.
> 
> When you say people in general are more selfish, what do you mean?
> 
> That people were selfish in the 1960s or that people are more selfish now?


I think it started in the late 50s to be honest and has just gotten worse as time has gone on.

I actually thought Maggie was good for the country at the time she was there but she did make it a dog eat dog society


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

rona said:


> I think it started in the late 50s to be honest and has just gotten worse as time has gone on.
> 
> I actually thought Maggie was good for the country at the time she was there but she did make it a dog eat dog society


Well, I was around in the late 1950s and selfishness was not the general 'order of the day'. This was a nation recovering from a World War, a nation that pulled together to win that war.

But, say the selfishness started then and, in your words, has just "gotten worse as time has gone on", we have had both Labour and Conservative Governments during that time, so who is to blame?

As I remember, Margaret Thatcher didn't become Prime Minister until the early 1980s, so I fail to see how she could be responsible for a selfish Society, originating from the 1950s?

Everyone has their own political beliefs and rightly so, but there does seem to be a trend to blame the present Conservative Government for just about everything, including events from many Decades ago.

That's what I was questioning from Tails & Trail's post.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Well, I was around in the late 1950s and selfishness was not the general 'order of the day'. This was a nation recovering from a World War, a nation that pulled together to win that war.
> 
> But, say the selfishness started then and, in your words, has just "gotten worse as time has gone on", we have had both Labour and Conservative Governments during that time, so who is to blame?
> 
> ...


Your view of living in the 50s and beyond are very different from mine then 

We were both there 

I don't have political beliefs I'm just talking about how I saw things through that time line as I've lived through it all

If you were good and honest instead of a backbiting, shoe licking.........you just got pissed on


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

F***offScotland

trending on twitter

Geeezooooo


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Really? How very wise you are.
> 
> I'm from that Generation, the WHOLE Generation you are condemning in one sweeping statement.
> 
> ...


i just won a quid.

(just a quid, mind you - wouldnt want to be too greedy )


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Geeezooooo


The egg and spoon race is off. It's on Sky Sports 1. They're going very slowly... or it could be an action replay.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> i just won a quid.
> 
> (just a quid, mind you - wouldnt want to be too greedy )


I don't understand this  :cryin:

You'll have to pm me to explain


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> we have had both Labour and Conservative Governments during that time, so who is to blame?
> 
> *both of them. and the voters*
> 
> ...


*not me..........*


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

lostbear said:


> They are that. When the miners' strikes were on the coverage was very biased - and it wasn't till some time later that I found that much of what we even saw up here in the north was censored down south - people there had no idea what was happening. They were shown coverage which suggested that the miners were just trouble-making thugs - nothing that told the truth, which was that it wasn't just jobs going - it was entire communities being destroyed, and that people were (quite literally) so despairing that some took their own lives; others died of illness brought on through malnutrition (because remember - there were no benefits given to strikers. Families were torn apart physically and emotionally and communities have never recovered.
> 
> The government is interested in London and the Home counties - the rest of Britain is there to serve and feed the parasitic wealthy of the south.


This is so true LB! I have family members who where there at Orgreave. It was the police that attacked the miners, but the bbc spun it the other way round!. The police were vile, particularly the Met police - they goaded and taunted the miners by flicking coins at them and waving their pay packets at them. Of course the media reported non of this - instead they demonised the strikers - they demonised the mining communities. Same thing happened at Hillsborough, the police were to blame, the media covered their backs - The establishment at work!



lostbear said:


> Out of touch and totally uncaring. The politicians have a huge sense of entitlement and nowt else!
> 
> I'm sure that there a re a few back-benchers out there who work their @rses off trying to do the best for their constituents, but I think that they have so little power or influence that they are beating their heads against a brick wall.
> 
> ...


Great post LB!



Goblin said:


> So was that the Tories then...
> 
> I'm afraid in this case yes Goblin. All this austerity which was suppose to reduce debt has according to MoneyWeek seen it double under Cameron - as poor get poorer the rich richer. >>
> The impact of employment changes on poverty in 2020 | Joseph Rowntree Foundation
> ...


I don't defend Scargill either! But he was bang on about Maggies intentions.

How Thatcher lied to the country during the Miners? Strike | LabourList

.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Julesky said:


> F***offScotland
> 
> trending on twitter
> 
> Geeezooooo


That is nasty! - Take no notice of the stupid eejits Jules xx


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> That is nasty! - Take no notice of the stupid eejits Jules xx


Second this comment, Jules - some people are just pillocks - they give stupidity a bad name!

xxx


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Blah blah.


As you don't make it easy to quote.. When it comes down to it, your argument is simply they have more, take it.


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

Seems the figures just don't add up?
:lol:


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Jonescat said:


> Born in Scotland, Scottish ancestors for generations, living in England. Not really sure if I will be still be considered Scottish in any way on Friday. Wasn't given a vote so I suppose I must be English, as only Scottish people are allowed to decide the future of Scotland.
> 
> Still at least I will know who to support when we all next play for the Calcutta cup. But I won't forgive you Mr Cameron, if you turn out to be the man whose complete misreading of the situation lost me part of my identity.





rona said:


> That must be quite upsetting
> 
> How can that even be?
> 
> I suppose some English living in Scotland have a vote


Anyone registered on the Scottish Electoral Roll was allowed to vote. I'm a Scot in England but could not vote. Lilythepink is English but lives in Scotland. She was allowed to vote.

This was fair!! Too many 'exiled' Scots would have voted from the heart with no regard for those having to live with the outcome of the vote. Those who will be affected should be the only people with a vote.

.


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Well that's the vote over, funnily enough as I walked upto my local polling station there was a group of no voters standing round the door, as I walked past one of them recognised me from my job and they started heckling me because this person had overheard me saying to someone else I was voting yes!!!

It's really something to walk through a crowd of people who are adamant I want to ruin my country and my families future, I ignored them and voted yes anyway 

Right now there is a glorious party in George Square, yes and no voters are present, there's no fighting, no separation, just a nation celebrating a life changing event. I don't feel negatively towards anyone who voted no, my parents and brother voted no!!! I'm just hoping whatever happens changes things here for the better!


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

ballybee said:


> Well that's the vote over, funnily enough as I walked upto my local polling station there was a group of no voters standing round the door, as I walked past one of them recognised me from my job and they started heckling me because this person had overheard me saying to someone else I was voting yes!!!
> 
> It's really something to walk through a crowd of people who are adamant I want to ruin my country and my families future, I ignored them and voted yes anyway
> 
> *Right now there is a glorious party in George Square, yes and no voters are present, there's no fighting, no separation, just a nation celebrating a life changing event.* I don't feel negatively towards anyone who voted no, my parents and brother voted no!!! I'm just hoping whatever happens changes things here for the better!


The Scots always love a good party!!!

I am glad you ignored the intimidation and voted as you felt you should.

Good luck. x

.


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Oh aye we certainly do!!!! My brother was trying to convince me to change but I stuck to my gut and voted for the change I felt our country needed!!!

Oh well, we'll see how it goes!!!


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Whatever way this vote goes , i truly hope this is the end of Cameron , Milliband & Cleggs political careers ..... I take my hat off to the scots , no matter what their political persuasion ...... They have shown the way in so much as , why can't / don't you make a stand we are so weak .... we make all the noises , yet do not stand our ground ! .... Perhaps the tables will turn after this .


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Seems the figures just don't add up?
> :lol:


It's CNN - you expect numeracy?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

its 6am.....i.m british!


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I'm very happy to still be British this morning


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

surprising result, unlucky scots.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The people have spoken.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

porps said:


> surprising result, unlucky scots.


It wasn't too surprising here and I don't think it's unlucky at all. The majority voted 'no', nothing to do with luck.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

tincan said:


> Whatever way this vote goes , i truly hope this is the end of Cameron , Milliband & Cleggs political careers ..... I take my hat off to the scots , no matter what their political persuasion ...... They have shown the way in so much as , why can't / don't you make a stand we are so weak .... we make all the noises , yet do not stand our ground ! .... Perhaps the tables will turn after this .


 This is what I want to,i never wanted to leave the union,this to me would have been a step to far with uncertaintey,I want tory rule out of Scotland.I now hope the voters turn out in force to vote in the general elections.belinda can we have your thoughts? lol


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Good Morning!

Still British I see!

I am heading off to work then out later hope we continue our typical level headedness and there's no madness about later. Have faith all will be fine.


RIGHT DC; where's this further devolution you speak of. 

Should be interesting few months ahead


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

DC said that England should also now be given the power to influence decisions that affect them. Yey!

Hopefully, the whole of the UK will benefit from this Referendum - we all deserve to be more influential in the running of our own countries/the union 

The politicians need to listen to the wishes of the voters and follow through with their promises. Here's hoping ..........


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Good Morning!
> 
> Still British I see!
> 
> ...


 agree jules,if a backtrack is in the pipeline I predict a riot!....interestingly Glasgow voted for yes,edinburgh no.lets see what the future brings.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> its 6am.....i.m british!


me too..........


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ballybee said:


> Well that's the vote over, funnily enough as I walked upto my local polling station there was a group of no voters standing round the door, as I walked past one of them recognised me from my job and they started heckling me because this person had overheard me saying to someone else I was voting yes!!!
> 
> It's really something to walk through a crowd of people who are adamant I want to ruin my country and my families future, I ignored them and voted yes anyway
> 
> Right now there is a glorious party in George Square, yes and no voters are present, there's no fighting, no separation, just a nation celebrating a life changing event. I don't feel negatively towards anyone who voted no, my parents and brother voted no!!! I'm just hoping whatever happens changes things here for the better!


I drove up to the tiny church hall polling station here....several people chatting outside. Very pleasant, everybody smiling....I knew maybe 4 of the people out of about 10...everybody said Hello.I don't know how many were Yes or No.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

All in All I'm glad you said NO.:thumbup:

Now lets getting on with running the UNITED KINGDOM and lets get it right this time.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ballybee said:


> Well that's the vote over, funnily enough as I walked upto my local polling station there was a group of no voters standing round the door, as I walked past one of them recognised me from my job and they started heckling me because this person had overheard me saying to someone else I was voting yes!!!
> 
> It's really something to walk through a crowd of people who are adamant I want to ruin my country and my families future, I ignored them and voted yes anyway
> 
> Right now there is a glorious party in George Square, yes and no voters are present, there's no fighting, no separation, just a nation celebrating a life changing event. I don't feel negatively towards anyone who voted no, my parents and brother voted no!!! I'm just hoping whatever happens changes things here for the better!


I hope all sides of our government finally wake up and listen.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> I hope all sides of our government finally wake up and listen.


 getting nasty on bitterbook....my daughter saying Scotland the slave and lodsa verbal abuse against no voters doing the rounds,glad I aint on it.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> getting nasty on bitterbook....my daughter saying Scotland the slave and lodsa verbal abuse against no voters doing the rounds,glad I aint on it.


to be expected, hopefully it will calm down quickly.

I called at the local town after we voted last night, it was busier than usual but I don't think there was any trouble.

If there is going to be trouble, would expect it tonight after the pubs close.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

So glad the Scottish people got the chance to have a proper democratic vote - hope any rifts amongst the yes & no's will soon be mended.



Lurcherlad said:


> DC said that England should also now be given the power to influence decisions that affect them. Yey!
> 
> Hopefully, the whole of the UK will benefit from this Referendum - we all deserve to be more influential in the running of our own countries/the union
> 
> The politicians need to listen to the wishes of the voters and follow through with their promises. Here's hoping ..........


I do hope you're right LL , but i fear the only ones that will benefit will be the tory party. Cameron will turn this to his advantage, he wants a single English parliament because obviously this benefits the Tories. Scottish MPs (mostly labour) wont be allowed to vote on English matters. I fear this will mean even less social justice & of course a vote on repealing of the hunting ban will be top of his agenda. We would never be able to renationalise our NHS. 
New Statesman | Cameron promises English votes for English laws - what does Labour do now?

This tickled me lol

Camerons statement in full.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> I do hope you're right LL , but i fear the only ones that will benefit will be the tory party.


I don't think the Tories have the monopoly on shafting the electorate 

Labour had plenty of time recently to ring the changes and we are still picking up the pieces - same as after the last Tory government, ad infinitum.

The only government with all the answers is the one in opposition - funny that!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm glad we are staying together - would have felt very sad this morning if the result had gone the other way but send sincere commiserations to those who didn't get the result they wanted. Hope everything settles down and people will work together to change things for the better.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> The only government with all the answers is the one in opposition - funny that!


That's politics for you 

J


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> The only government with all the answers is the one in opposition - funny that!


No, it's simply that party can never and will never do anything right

What concerns me most at the moment is that politics will dictate quick reaction to appease people, not effective change which would benefit people in the long run.


----------



## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

Woke up to disappointment this morning. There are good things about being part of a united country (we do after all share a lot of common ground), but the fact is, we've missed a great opportunity to shape our own future in Scotland. People can laugh at and dismiss the idealistic hopes of a better, fairer society, but without hope, what do you have? Apathy, and that is a terrible thing.

However, the fact is, outside of Dundee, Glasgow, North Ayrshire, Lanarkshire & West Dumbarton, there wasn't enough appetite for change. And at least it was a slightly more comprehensive result than many were expecting.

The optimistic part of me hopes it will still be a catalyst for change throughout the UK, but right now I am just fearful of the next Government, what is the betting we end up with a Tory/UKIP coalition - that I find a very scary prospect.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Have to agree with Goblin, I think it has annoyed the rest of the UK, cost a fortune, broken bridges, and not been all singing, dancing and holding hands (from bits I have read). I cant see who has gained anything in all of this......


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> As you don't make it easy to quote.. When it comes down to it, your argument is simply they have more, take it.


whats your argument? maintain the status quo and continue to let the plutocrats and corporations take everything our ancestors fought for - including our democracy??

.

.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

would be interesting to know just how much has been spent on it all.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

soulful dog said:


> Woke up to disappointment this morning. There are good things about being part of a united country (we do after all share a lot of common ground), but the fact is, we've missed a great opportunity to shape our own future in Scotland. People can laugh at and dismiss the idealistic hopes of a better, fairer society, but without hope, what do you have? Apathy, and that is a terrible thing.
> 
> However, the fact is, outside of Dundee, Glasgow, North Ayrshire, Lanarkshire & West Dumbarton, there wasn't enough appetite for change. And at least it was a slightly more comprehensive result than many were expecting.
> 
> The optimistic part of me hopes it will still be a catalyst for change throughout the UK, but right now I am just fearful of the next Government, what is the betting we end up with a Tory/UKIP coalition - that I find a very scary prospect.


You're not the only one SD - and a lot are predicting it. :/

.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> I don't think the Tory's have the monopoly on shafting the electorate
> 
> Labour had plenty of time recently to ring the changes and we are still picking up the pieces - same as after the last Tory government, ad infinitum.
> 
> The only government with all the answers is the one in opposition - funny that!


I don't think they do either. You cant put a match between the 3 main parties or UKIP.

They ALL feed out of the same trough. Corporations at the very heart of power -- New Internationalist

The only thing that could sway me to vote one over the others is to save our badgers, foxes - & hopefully our NHS.

On most other issues they might as well be the same party.

.

.

.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I am so glad, i can kiss any Scot (who asks!)


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> would be interesting to know just how much has been spent on it all.


Sure I heard on the radio the other day that the budget for campaigning was capped at £1.5 milion each


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

The vote was rigged, there are various youtube videos being shared on FB right now, showing corruption during vote counts. Shocking!

The Scottish people have been robbed, and skulduggery was the dish of the day.

As I am a new member therefore I am not allowed to post links, but the truth is out there! Find it! If the corrupt establishment has done this to us, they can do the same to the rest of the UK. 

The Scottish people demo'd against the BBC, we are about to demo about the rigging that went on last night!


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

I will try and post links:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10201496218046165


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

And another for you all, look and decide for yourselves whether Scotland should feel cheated? x


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So switching a bunch of paper from one position to the next, without knowing exactly what is written on those papers is supposed to prove what exactly


----------



## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Just put my answer on the "referendum post.

As I expected, accusations have started to fly


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Bisbow said:


> Just put my answer on the "referendum post.
> 
> *As I expected, accusations have started to fly*


Myself and my OH were saying that we expected the conspiracy theories to start flying just before I spotted this post :lol:


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> So switching a bunch of paper from one position to the next, without knowing exactly what is written on those papers is supposed to prove what exactly


I posted two videos.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

RiggerDigger said:


> I posted two videos.


And neither video proves anything, zilch, nadda, etc....etc...
Unless I am missing something?


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> And neither video proves anything, zilch, nadda, etc....etc...
> Unless I am missing something?


Well you saw us Scots march against the BBC bias, we will be marching on Westminster for the rigging of an election. Watch this space!  x

https://www.change.org/p/alex-salmo...um-counted-by-impartial-international-parties


----------



## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

A couple of things I've seen are suspicious so the petition calling for a re-vote and to only be counted by those who are impartial is justified in my opinion. 

Personally I'm glad its a no but not if its as a result of rigging.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

RiggerDigger said:


> Well you saw us Scots march against the BBC bias, we will be marching on Westminster for the rigging of an election. Watch this space!  x
> 
> https://www.change.org/p/alex-salmo...um-counted-by-impartial-international-parties


BC I'm sorry it didn't go the way you wanted it but can't say I'm surprised to see you pop up with conspiracy theories.


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

Polski said:


> A couple of things I've seen are suspicious so the petition calling for a re-vote and to only be counted by those who are impartial is justified in my opinion.
> 
> Personally I'm glad its a no but not if its as a result of rigging.


This morning I accepted the result, and made peace with the fact 55% of Scots said NO.

I then log into FB and see all the CCTV and video evidence of vote rigging! 

Such as below, piles of YES votes appeared to be in the NO pile....



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153135522114045


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

RiggerDigger said:


> Well you saw us Scots march against the BBC bias, we will be marching on Westminster for the rigging of an election. Watch this space!  x
> 
> https://www.change.org/p/alex-salmo...um-counted-by-impartial-international-parties


How is that even answering my question?

How are those videos posted proof of rigging anything?
I am not saying that no rigging happened as I do not know, but those videos prove nothing


----------



## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Videos can be rigged as well


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .


----------



## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Gemmaa said:


> Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .


Badly, as expected


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

What can I say? To those who voted Yes. To those who rejected the austerity. To those who took a stand against the attacks on society's most vulnerable. To those who believed in fighting for those who cannot fight for themselves. To those who believed we can build a better society, that the power is in OUR hands, not in the hands of the privileged few. To those who fought with heart and mind to make us the nation again - I salute you. I was always fully aware that Westminster has a system of influence and control that permeates every facet of society. From the unions to the banks, to religious institutions and the media that would prove too great an obstacle for some to climb. Personally I am proud of what has been achieved in the last stages of this campaign. We have watched the people of Scotland waking up en masse to the harsh reality that our world is NOTHING like the one presented to us by the mainstream media.That is a major step in the raising of consciousness. This movement has seen facts pitted against fiction in an information war that reached its apex in the last few weeks when some truth bubbled to the surface and folk changed to a yes vote in their droves. It might not have been enough to gain Independence for Scotland but I value the independence of mind as much as I value the independence of the nation. People are waking up. Never underestimate the power of awakened individuals. To those with broken hearts I share your pain. But in your time of hurt think of this. As little as 6 months ago your timeline was saturated with chicken dinners, sycophantic attention seeking non statements and duck face selfies. Compare that with the explosion of debate within the working class with social media bursting at the seams with information about taxation oil revenues, austerity, nuclear weapons on the Clyde, currency, inflation, financial and political corruption, tv licence, media impartiality, the one party system in Westminster, the House of Lords, child care, EU, NATO, NHS, privatisation of public services, free education, free prescriptions, the bedroom tax, the environment, illegal wars, attacks on the disabled and food banks. Think back to last year about who was aware of these issues? That is how quick the zeitgeist can take hold. That is what we are capable of. Do not be angry or sad. You have all the information in the world at your disposal. Use this experience as an opportunity educate yourself, your family and your friends even further so when the opportunity presents itself again we will be ready. That is the reality. The genie is now out of the bottle. Scotland is AWAKE! If not the ballot box then the truth shall set u free. 
Never be afraid. 
Hope over Fear.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .


I'm gonna guess not very well considering the latest replies :lol:


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> I'm gonna guess not very well considering the latest replies :lol:


You all mock and make fun of someone else's sadness, says it all about the people mocking. 

As I said watch this space, the rigging stories will make the news eventually. We have ONE unbias newspaper in Scotland, The Herald. Then once The Herald breaks the news, the TV channel news will then have to report on the corruption.

I tried to start my own thread highlighting the fears of vote rigging circulating today, but instead had to post on these two threads, as my thread is awaiting "authorisation", which hasn't happened. x


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

RiggerDigger said:


> You all mock and make fun of someone else's sadness, says it all about the people mocking.
> 
> As I said watch this space, the rigging stories will make the news eventually. We have ONE unbias newspaper in Scotland, The Herald. Then once The Herald breaks the news, the TV channel news will then have to report on the corruption.
> 
> I tried to start my own thread highlighting the fears of vote rigging circulating today, but instead had to post on these two threads, as my thread is awaiting "authorisation", which hasn't happened. x


No we don't ALL mock. I started out saying I was sorry it didn't go the way you wanted. However you keep picking like a scab and in your previous threads have been very high and mighty and dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Well it would seem quite a lot of people don't agree with you and voted accordingly. Instead of being gracious in defeat you have to start banging on about conspiracies and rigging.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I am not mocking anyone's sadness 

I am laughing at yet another banned member rejoining and expecting to get away with it :cornut:


----------



## RiggerDigger (Sep 19, 2014)

I am hardly trying to "hide" who I am, otherwise I would have posted lots of fluffy kitten pics and posted on other threads. I wanted you to KNOW who I was.... 

I was banned for wanting freedom for Scotland (says it all about this forum, frankly).

And Zaros wished me and other members dead, yet he is hailed as some sort of cherished member on here.

I am sorry,but I have NOT been rude to ANYONE, just stood firm in my beliefs against MANY who did not share them. Shoot me! x


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

RiggerDigger said:


> I am hardly trying to "hide" who I am, otherwise I would have posted lots of fluffy kitten pics and posted on other threads. I wanted you to KNOW who I was....
> 
> I was banned for wanting freedom for Scotland (says it all about this forum, frankly).
> 
> ...


...just most of England .

Throughout this entire process the one thing that has really confused me, is why someone would join a pet forum purely to discuss politics?
Surely there are better websites for your cause?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

RiggerDigger said:


> What can I say? To those who voted Yes. To those who rejected the austerity. To those who took a stand against the attacks on society's most vulnerable.


To those who may have actually looked at the gap in spending, to those who didn't believe the lies of the Yes campaign such as NHS spending was set by Westminster when it's easy to check and confirm it's Holyrood which has reduced spending whereas in the UK spending has increased. To those who didn't believe everything would be greener on their side of the fence.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .


me too.lol


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Gemmaa said:


> Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .


Tragic, isn't it? 

I think it says much about her mentality that, after declaring she would "Be back on the 19th to gloat", she has attempted to come back anyway, when she has absolutely nothing to gloat about.

I dare say she'll find another 'cause' to try and ram down people's throats.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Have to agree with Goblin, I think it has annoyed the rest of the UK, cost a fortune, broken bridges, and not been all singing, dancing and holding hands (from bits I have read). I cant see who has gained anything in all of this......


who says it annoyed rest of UK

why should people rest of Uk be 'annoyed' about the scots exercising democracy. it was a fantastic episode in the history of our nation, the best election we have had in decades, and scotland is still part of the union.

whats to be annoyed at?

i never really understand these bitter english that kept bitching and moaning about scottish people and their needs and desires?

everyone in the whole of the UK has gained from this, due to the aforementioned exercise in democracy, and the great example they have know given the rest of us for change and reform, from regional devolution, right to vote for 16 and 17 year olds. There will be constitutional reform across the board, hopefully including PR and Lords reform too, and hopefully a referendum upon the EU.

The momentum for historical change for the better has been started, lets not loose the spirit, anything that moves us away from the corrupt cronyist PPE westminster elite has to be a good thing


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> who says it annoyed rest of UK
> 
> why should people rest of Uk be 'annoyed' about the scots exercising democracy. it was a fantastic episode in the history of our nation, the best election we have had in decades, and scotland is still part of the union.
> 
> whats to be annoyed at?


As one person put it.. it's no longer a divorce, it's simply now sleeping in separate rooms.



> The momentum for historical change for the better has been started, lets not loose the spirit, anything that moves us away from the corrupt cronyist PPE westminster elite has to be a good thing


There is a momentum for change and that is to be encouraged. However quick change <> sensible change. People have to be aware, another possible level of Government means potentially another level of cronyist bureaucracy. It could be great if that's avoided. If decisions are simply rushed on the other hand..


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> who says it annoyed rest of UK
> 
> why should people rest of Uk be 'annoyed' about the scots exercising democracy. it was a fantastic episode in the history of our nation, the best election we have had in decades, and scotland is still part of the union.
> 
> ...


Can you explain why your posts are sounding very much like BelindaCarlisle's?

I didn't think you were even Scottish, in fact, you're not, but your post suggests you are.

Very strange.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> who says it annoyed rest of UK
> 
> *why should people rest of Uk be 'annoyed' about the scots exercising democracy.* it was a fantastic episode in the history of our nation, the best election we have had in decades, and scotland is still part of the union.
> 
> ...


Mainly because it would impact on our lives too and we had no say in *our future*

I think concerned or annoyed are the best descriptions in this instance, not bitter

We have another conspiracy theory it seems


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Can you explain why your posts are sounding very much like BelindaCarlisle's?
> 
> I didn't think you were even Scottish, in fact, you're not, but your post suggests you are.
> 
> Very strange.


Why is it 'very strange' that T&T is taking a pragmatic view on the outcome and, possible benefits, of the Scottish referendum? Why does it have to be a them & us situation?

A large number of people have come out and said that this action will bring about huge changes in the political set-up within the UK and, quite frankly, it's about time! Westminster has stopped governing and started ruling the UK and the scare they got last week when they realised how close they were to seeing the UK break-up, gave them kick up the backside that has been long overdue in coming. You don't need to 'be Scottish' to see that.

And to compare T&T to Belinda is a low insult! :skep: Totally unnecessary. :frown2:

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Can you explain why your posts are sounding very much like BelindaCarlisle's?
> 
> I didn't think you were even Scottish, in fact, you're not, but your post suggests you are.
> 
> Very strange.


I "sound like" an 80's pop star (have you heard me sing) ???

Im not scottish but my post "sounds scottish" (whatever that means) ???

this must be a case for Scully and Mulder :skep:


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> Why is it 'very strange' that T&T is taking a pragmatic view on the outcome and, possible benefits, of the Scottish referendum? Why does it have to be a them & us situation?
> 
> A large number of people have come out and said that this action will bring about huge changes in the political set-up within the UK and, quite frankly, it's about time! Westminster has stopped governing and started ruling the UK and the scare they got last week when they realised how close they were to seeing the UK break-up, gave them kick up the backside that has been long overdue in coming. You don't need to 'be Scottish' to see that.
> 
> ...


:thumbup1::thumbup1:


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

rona said:


> Mainly because it would impact on our lives too and we had no say in *our future*
> 
> I think concerned or annoyed are the best descriptions in this instance, not bitter
> 
> We have another conspiracy theory it seems


It is not Scotlands fault that Cameron is not prepared to allow England the same right to vote that was given to Scotland.

It would have been wrong for England to vote in the 'same' referendum as Scotland due to the vast population difference of both countries. But there is nothing to stop England having their own referendum - well nothing except an egotistical Prime Minister who refuses to listen to the people of the land and does what he wants, when he wants, with a disgraceful disregard for the opinions of those he is supposed to be working for.

But, if England can find a figurehead with cajones big enough to stand up and make the demand for their say, then I wish them all the luck in the land with their proposal.

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

rona said:


> Mainly because it would impact on our lives too and we had no say in *our future*
> 
> I think concerned or annoyed are the best descriptions in this instance, not bitter
> 
> We have another conspiracy theory it seems


i guess it would affect our future if scotland left the union?

but that could have been an argument applies to when ireland left the union, or even when countries left the british empire. i guess the Eu could make the same argument against Uk having a referendum about leaving the EU.

but i believe, rightly or wrongly, countries have grown up and evolved to form units of people that share a common identity, so if one were to consider the future of those peoples and their identity, it makes sense that the people that the vote is all about should be the only people to have the say.
If they had voted yes to independence, the UK would still exist, but we would incur a temporary effect, just as we did when Ireland left, at the end of the day, it would just mean we live next door to another country, which, in reality, would just be the same as we do living next door to France or Ireland.

The major effect would be upon the people the vote is actually about, therefore the gains and losses would only be theirs to bear

Im really please for the scots in that they had this opportunity, it has been an exhilarating experience, i think, and in the long one, a really good for our whole country, and something fantastic for the history books

See what you mean about conspiracy theories though


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> See what you mean about conspiracy theories though


I have just posted the below on the 'Referendum' thread and can't be bothered to type it up again so here's a cut & paste! 

_I read a post about 2/3 weeks ago on FB from a bloke who claimed to be one of the vote counters. He was in the 'No' camp and stated on FB that he intended to 'spoil' any papers he counted that were stating 'Yes'. Naturally he was posting under a username and not his own name.

I'm sure he was not the only counter with this intention. However, in the name of fairness, I wouldn't be surprised if there were 'Yes' counters working with the same remit. _

.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I think a lot more people will refer to themselves as English now rather than British when abroad, at least for a short while. Who knows maybe they'll start celebrating St George's day. I think the identity spoken shows one of the fundamental differences in attitudes. Scottish, Irish and Welsh infrequently refered to themselves as British.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I have just posted the below on the 'Referendum' thread and can't be bothered to type it up again so here's a cut & paste!
> 
> _I read a post about 2/3 weeks ago on FB from a bloke who claimed to be one of the vote counters. He was in the 'No' camp and stated on FB that he intended to 'spoil' any papers he counted that were stating 'Yes'. Naturally he was posting under a username and not his own name.
> 
> ...


I expect you realise how few spoilt papers there were. The number of spoilt papers were listed, as well as the reasoning with the results for each area. Claims to be a counter, claims to be in the No camp, claims to intend to "spoil".. I claim to walk on the moon in my pyjamas, just not on facebook as I don't want the whole world to be upset they can't.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goblin said:


> I think a lot more people will refer to themselves as English now rather than British when abroad, at least for a short while. Who knows maybe they'll start celebrating St George's day. I think the identity spoken shows one of the fundamental differences in attitudes. Scottish, Irish and Welsh infrequently refered to themselves as British.


I've always been British and will be until the day I die


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Goblin said:


> I expect you realise how few spoilt papers there were. The number of spoilt papers were listed, as well as the reasoning with the results for each area. Claims to be a counter, claims to be in the No camp, claims to intend to "spoil".. *I claim to walk on the moon in my pyjamas, just not on facebook as I don't want the whole world to be upset they can't.*


Which is why I made care to use the word 'claimed'. 

.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

rona said:


> I've always been British and will be until the day I die


I'm too old to change


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Which is why I made care to use the word 'claimed'.
> 
> .


Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth somewhere on the internet. Doesn't matter if you put "claimed" in or not.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> It is not Scotlands fault that Cameron is not prepared to allow England the same right to vote that was given to Scotland.
> 
> It would have been wrong for England to vote in the 'same' referendum as Scotland due to the vast population difference of both countries. But there is nothing to stop England having their own referendum - well nothing except an egotistical Prime Minister who refuses to listen to the people of the land and does what he wants, when he wants, with a disgraceful disregard for the opinions of those he is supposed to be working for.
> 
> ...





Tails and Trails said:


> i guess it would affect our future if scotland left the union?
> 
> but that could have been an argument applies to when ireland left the union, or even when countries left the british empire. i guess the Eu could make the same argument against Uk having a referendum about leaving the EU.
> 
> ...


While you are both right and logic may tell you this is so. Sometimes you just can't help your feelings.

I'm not a political being but I certainly know how I feel


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth somewhere on the internet. Doesn't matter if you put "claimed" in or not.


Frightening isn't it?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Alex salmond resigns!...toys out the pram?.or his time over?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> Alex salmond resigns!...toys out the pram?.or his time over?


Don't think there was much of an alternative in the long run. It was go now or be hounded out at some time in the future when he's not necessarily in the limelight.


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> Aww, I wondered how Belinda would take the news .





rottiepointerhouse said:


> No we don't ALL mock. I started out saying I was sorry it didn't go the way you wanted. However you keep picking like a scab and in your previous threads have been very high and mighty and dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Well it would seem quite a lot of people don't agree with you and voted accordingly. Instead of being gracious in defeat you have to start banging on about conspiracies and rigging.





Goblin said:


> Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth somewhere on the internet. Doesn't matter if you put "claimed" in or not.


In this case, the clue's in the (original) name, guys - and the lyrics too:

_Circle in the sand, 'round and 'round
Making new accounts when the last one's banned
It's all complete conspiracy!
Why won't they all pay heed?
Circle in the sand, circle in the sand..._


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> Alex salmond resigns!...toys out the pram?.or his time over?


i listened to his speech

it wasnt pique

it was more about his lifetimes work over. more sadness than anything else really

i had respect for him after listening

(im guessing also he always planned on resigning if he lost, dont forget he quit as party leader couple years ago due to the commitment, but made a comeback as it was seen good for his party and referendum campaign, so that episode would also give weight to the theory he thinks his time is up)


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i listened to his speech
> 
> it wasnt pique
> 
> ...


kinda felt sorry for him there,seems like a broken man.if nothing else he did galvanise the voters,got our youth interested,never has Scotland seen a voting turnout like this.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> kinda felt sorry for him there,seems like a broken man.if nothing else he did galvanise the voters,got our youth interested,never has Scotland seen a voting turnout like this.


i might write a song about it


----------



## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> kinda felt sorry for him there,seems like a broken man.if nothing else he did galvanise the voters,got our youth interested,never has Scotland seen a voting turnout like this.


I don't know much about the man - but as an outsider looking in and being in awe when I heard how many people had actually voted - that is something the man should be immensely proud of, that sort of turnout is rare.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Is it terribly wrong that my first thought upon seeing the result was: "wonder what BC will think of this?" 

I am personally glad we're staying together, but the Scottish who voted for independence must be gutted.

Hope this is all positive going forward.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Is it terribly wrong that my first thought upon seeing the result was: "wonder what BC will think of this?"
> 
> I am personally glad we're staying together, but the Scottish who voted for independence must be gutted.
> 
> Hope this is all positive going forward.


who is BC?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Tails and Trails said:


> who is BC?


Belinda Carlise a banned member who has rejoined a couple of times under different names recently just to post about politics. The latest being Rigger Digger in this thread (since banned).


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Belinda Carlise a banned member who has rejoined a couple of times under different names recently just to post about politics. The latest being Rigger Digger in this thread (since banned).


oh, BC - Belinda Carlise. Wondered what all this Belinda Carlisle stuff was about - was getting mind-be-foggled :skep:

so why was Sweety calling_ me_ Belinda Carlisle :001_huh:


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

For most a feeling of quiet respect for everyone.. there's a lot of love up here and the majority appreciate that everyone voted for their beliefs; with it so close no one wants to upset their neighbour- there is a reason the scots have a reputation for being pretty friendly (as well as fighty)


Kicking off a bit in Glasgow's george square BUT will be controlled

is genuinely football hooligans but the city sadly used to this.

is not a representation of us.

p.sAre the rest of the UK happy with DC's chat? Lets see if it is what we all hope for: change for the better!


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> Is it terribly wrong that my first thought upon seeing the result was: "wonder what BC will think of this?"
> 
> I am personally glad we're staying together, but the Scottish who voted for independence must be gutted.
> 
> Hope this is all positive going forward.


 well a barney has started in the centre of Glasgow,riot police are in attendance.hopefully this will fizzle out.glasgow has had a gloomy atmosphere today.


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> well a barney has started in the centre of Glasgow,riot police are in attendance.hopefully this will fizzle out.glasgow has had a gloomy atmosphere today.


reflected by the weather.

I dunno i kinda appreciate the gloom.

Everyone from all sides being very respectful of the fact the vote was close.

except for the usual twits..:frown2:


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Julesky said:


> For most a feeling of quiet respect for everyone.. there's a lot of love up here and the majority appreciate that everyone voted for their beliefs; with it so close no one wants to upset their neighbour- there is a reason the scots have a reputation for being pretty friendly (as well as fighty)
> 
> Kicking off a bit in Glasgow's george square BUT will be controlled
> 
> ...


DC = Dave Cameron? (Just querying, as have not read every post on this thread).

If so, personally I think I would watch the slimy little reptile (if you can get slimy reptiles . . . :roll eyes like a hawk - I think he's had a shock and will be talking big and simultaneously trying to work out how little he will have to actually do. And I think that the rest of the north should strike while the iron is hot and demand OUR rights too - we are just as sick of being [email protected] on as our bothers and sisters north of the border.

The turn-out for the vote was amazing, and I know that it was 45/55, but it is still a huge number of people who wanted independence - a HUGE number - and DC will be shocked at how many, though he will choke rather than admit it.

Personally I don't care for Salmond - I think he has a lot of surface charm, but he is oily (perhaps it is a life in politics that does that to MPs?) and like all of the buggers he has his own agenda - the face on him as he sat in his car made me think "Mmm - I'm glad I'm not Mrs S today. And I'm very glad I don't work for him!" I think he will be hell to live with for a good few weeks yet.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> Why is it 'very strange' that T&T is taking a pragmatic view on the outcome and, possible benefits, of the Scottish referendum? Why does it have to be a them & us situation?
> 
> A large number of people have come out and said that this action will bring about huge changes in the political set-up within the UK and, quite frankly, it's about time! *Westminster has stopped governing and started ruling the UK* and the scare they got last week when they realised how close they were to seeing the UK break-up, gave them kick up the backside that has been long overdue in coming. You don't need to 'be Scottish' to see that.
> 
> ...


Very good point - we have a government of self-serving bullies!


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Julesky said:


> reflected by the weather.
> 
> I dunno i kinda appreciate the gloom.
> 
> ...


 the coming days will be revealing though,as you say some twits are determined to cause a rammy,trying to stay awakes my only battle just now!....girls need their walk...life goes on.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lostbear said:


> DC = Dave Cameron? (Just querying, as have not read every post on this thread).
> 
> If so, personally I think I would watch the slimy little reptile (if you can get slimy reptiles . . . :roll eyes like a hawk - I think he's had a shock and will be talking big and simultaneously trying to work out how little he will have to actually do. And I think that the rest of the north should strike while the iron is hot and demand OUR rights too - we are just as sick of being [email protected] on as our bothers and sisters north of the border.
> 
> ...


I agree - I think *he* wanted to go down in history as the great man who led Scotland to independence.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Oops.. Exclusive: Angry with Washington, 1 in 4 Americans open to secession | Reuters


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lostbear said:


> DC = Dave Cameron? (Just querying, as have not read every post on this thread).
> 
> If so, personally I think I would watch the slimy little reptile (if you can get slimy reptiles . . . :roll eyes like a hawk - I think he's had a shock and will be talking big and simultaneously trying to work out how little he will have to actually do. And I think that the rest of the north should strike while the iron is hot and demand OUR rights too - we are just as sick of being [email protected] on as our bothers and sisters north of the border.
> 
> ...





mollydog07 said:


> the coming days will be revealing though,as you say some twits are determined to cause a rammy,trying to stay awakes my only battle just now!....girls need their walk...life goes on.


Yip David Cameron I know, I know salmons kinda think he was a young ideologist one time can't help his face but equally wasn't keen on all SNP politics.

Will be gutted for our country if or when the promised devo doesn't appear..


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

What the heck ? When was the result announced ? The egg and spoon race is still going. Oh wait. I'd sat on the remote and pressed pause by mistake. I did wonder why they hadn't moved much.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

RiggerDigger said:


> You all mock and make fun of someone else's sadness, says it all about the people mocking.
> 
> As I said watch this space, the rigging stories will make the news eventually. We have ONE unbias newspaper in Scotland, The Herald. Then once The Herald breaks the news, the TV channel news will then have to report on the corruption.
> 
> I tried to start my own thread highlighting the fears of vote rigging circulating today, but instead had to post on these two threads, as my thread is awaiting "authorisation", which hasn't happened. x


Hmmmm - I wonder who this could be?? Just bemused as to where the promised gloating has gone


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> DC = Dave Cameron? (Just querying, as have not read every post on this thread).
> 
> If so, personally I think I would watch the slimy little reptile (if you can get slimy reptiles . . . :roll eyes like a hawk - I think he's had a shock and will be talking big and simultaneously trying to work out how little he will have to actually do. And I think that the rest of the north should strike while the iron is hot and demand OUR rights too - we are just as sick of being [email protected] on as our bothers and sisters north of the border.
> 
> ...


oh it was a close call....DC will be on his toes...and what do people like him do when there is a problem? do they sort the problem?...nope, they chuck money at it...so, now expecting living on easy street up here and tripping the light fantastic for the feel good factor


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> they chuck money at it...so, now expecting living on easy street up here and tripping the light fantastic for the feel good factor


In that case I'm quite happy for the entire UK to be renamed Scotland so we can all get a piece of the action. But not Milton Keynes.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> In that case I'm quite happy for the entire UK to be renamed Scotland so we can all get a piece of the action. But not Milton Keynes.


lol.......................


----------



## spannels (Sep 9, 2011)

lostbear said:


> And I think that the rest of the north should strike while the iron is hot and demand OUR rights too - we are just as sick of being [email protected] on as our bothers and sisters north of the border.


Not just the north - some of us in the south are sick of the state of things, too.

(London is only a small part of the south).

At least you got a referendum a few years ago - I was sorry the answer then was "no" since the government of the time got scared off and never asked the rest of us in England what we wanted.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Will be gutted for our country if or when the promised devo doesn't appear..


I think Scotland will be [email protected] on from a great height in respect of any power, worthy of any note, being given to them. I was listening to some Tory MP today on the radio and he totally bluffed his way through the questions of when Scotland would start to see these promised powers. It was all prevarication and procrastination.

Cameron opened his mouth and let his belly rumble in desperation last week. It was a moment of panic with no intent.

.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I think Scotland will be [email protected] on from a great height in respect of any power, worthy of any note, being given to them. I was listening to some Tory MP today on the radio and he totally bluffed his way through the questions of when Scotland would start to see these promised powers. It was all prevarication and procrastination.
> 
> Cameron opened his mouth and let his belly rumble in desperation last week. It was a moment of panic with no intent.
> 
> .


The government dont just reserve that crap for Scotland Mave - they treat the whole of the UK with same disdain


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> The government dont just reserve that crap for Scotland Mave - they treat the whole of the UK with same disdain


I know Hilda. As I said in an earlier post, Westminster no longer govern the UK, they rule it.

Regardless of who is in power, they ride roughshod over the wishes of the populace and do their own thing regardless.

.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> oh it was a close call....DC will be on his toes...and what do people like him do when there is a problem? do they sort the problem?...nope, they chuck money at it...so, now expecting living on easy street up here and tripping the light fantastic for the feel good factor


Enjoy your new-found prosperity - your front gate will be blocked with Northerners begging for a bowl of gruel (after all, the money has to come from somewhere, and we all know the it won't be the Home Counties).

_(*touches forelock*)_ "Got tu'ppence forra cuppa tea, guv'nor?"

Oooops! - Sorry! _(*Rapidly updates price list*)_ "Got £6.90 for a macchiato an'a Tropical Fruit muffin, guv'nor?"


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> What the heck ? When was the result announced ? The egg and spoon race is still going.* Oh wait. I'd sat on the remote and pressed pause by mistake. I did wonder why they hadn't moved much*.


It _is_ hard to tell - there's rarely any perceptible movement where the government is involved . . .


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> In that case I'm quite happy for the entire UK to be renamed Scotland so we can all get a piece of the action. But not Milton Keynes.


'ERE!

Any place that can turn concrete cows into a virtue deserves summit!

Even if it is only contempt.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Enjoy your new-found prosperity - your front gate will be blocked with Northerners begging for a bowl of gruel (after all, the money has to come from somewhere, and we all know the it won't be the Home Counties).
> 
> _(*touches forelock*)_ "Got tu'ppence forra cuppa tea, guv'nor?"
> 
> Oooops! - Sorry! _(*Rapidly updates price list*)_ "Got £6.90 for a macchiato an'a Tropical Fruit muffin, guv'nor?"


lol. but I am further north than you are, doesn't that count?

still waiting for new found prosperity....its been 2 days now and nothing.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

The next general election kicks off on the 7th may,lets hope we get a government we actually vote for,cameron knows the Scottish do not want the conservative party,this was his fear that people voting for indy were voting against the tories and not independence.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

spannels said:


> Not just the north - some of us in the south are sick of the state of things, too.
> 
> (London is only a small part of the south).
> 
> *At least you got a referendum a few years ago - I was sorry the answer then was "no"* since the government of the time got scared off and never asked the rest of us in England what we wanted.


Was that the referendum on having a local assembly?

We kicked that smartarse idea into touch because we could see it was just going to be another expensive tier of bureaucracy with all the top jobs given to politicians' pals - and let's face it, anything that "Two-jags, ten-bellies, half-a c*ck" Preston was mad for us to have - we instinctively didn't want it!

He's another self-serving, greedy, arrogant git! (no offence, John - I say this with all respect hahahahaha)


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> lol. but I am further north than you are, doesn't that count?
> 
> still waiting for new found prosperity....its been 2 days now and nothing.


 All in good time lily.....round about 4th may 2015 when the election kicks off .


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> The next general election kicks off on the 7th may,lets hope we get a government we actually vote for,cameron knows the Scottish do not want the conservative party,this was his fear that people voting for indy were voting against the tories and not independence.


i wouldnt thought so, for if cam were thinking in terms of electability, he would welcome an indy scotland, as that would mean guaranteed tory govs in any future westminster election


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i wouldnt thought so, for if cam were thinking in terms of electability, he would welcome an indy scotland, as that would mean guaranteed tory govs in any future westminster election


His speech to the scots was put how you feel about the tories out of your mind when considering your vote for independence,labour has always been a Glasgow stronghold,not now.the results from the indy ref prove this.glasgow voted yes for indy.scotland didn't.its no wonder ukip are picking up protest votes all over Britain


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> His speech to the scots was put how you feel about the tories out of your mind when considering your vote for independence,labour has always been a Glasgow stronghold,not now.the results from the indy ref prove this.glasgow voted yes for indy.scotland didn't.its no wonder ukip are picking up protest votes all over Britain


but this doesnt fit with your idea cam was secretly more concerned about the scots rejecting the tories than the union. in fact, what you just wrote demonstrates the opposite?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> All in good time lily.....round about 4th may 2015 when the election kicks off .


lol. Best not hold my breath then, eh?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> but this doesnt fit with your idea cam was secretly more concerned about the scots rejecting the tories than the union. in fact, what you just wrote demonstrates the opposite?


 very few in Scotland vote tory,can only really think of 1 msp ruth Davidson,scotland vote labour....we get a tory government,glasgow did vote for indy.i voted no as I,m happy to be part of the union.....not happy to be governed by an unelected government.makes sense to me.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> very few in Scotland vote tory,can only really think of 1 msp ruth Davidson,scotland vote labour....we get a tory government,glasgow did vote for indy.i voted no as I,m happy to be part of the union.....not happy to be governed by an unelected government.makes sense to me.


i know. i keep saying the same things. thats why your assertion that cam was secretly more concerned about scots rejecting the tories more than rejecting the union doesnt figure, as the scots have already been rejecting the tories for years, so if scotland left the union that would pretty much guarantee that the tories winning any future GE's, as they have no MP's in scotland, whereas Labour have loads, so if you are accusing Cam of self interest, his self interest would have been to secretly hope FOR an Yes vote


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## spannels (Sep 9, 2011)

lostbear said:


> Was that the referendum on having a local assembly?
> 
> We kicked that smartarse idea into touch because we could see it was just going to be another expensive tier of bureaucracy with all the top jobs given to politicians' pals - and let's face it, anything that "Two-jags, ten-bellies, half-a c*ck" Preston was mad for us to have - we instinctively didn't want it!
> 
> He's another self-serving, greedy, arrogant git! (no offence, John - I say this with all respect hahahahaha)


Yes, that's the one. It wasn't a brilliant offer, as you say, but it could have been a starting point to build on. And when Prescott and Co. backed off from it you couldn't see them for dust lol. They never offered it to anyone else.

I quite agree with your assessment of the parties involved though, they're the same ones that out of spite wanted the whole of the South to be covered in new build new towns. What they didn't do, to my mind unforgivably, was get the North revitalised and regenerated.

But hey, that's all water under the bridge now.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> i know. i keep saying the same things. thats why your assertion that cam was secretly more concerned about scots rejecting the tories more than rejecting the union doesnt figure, as the scots have already been rejecting the tories for years, so if scotland left the union that would pretty much guarantee that the tories winning any future GE's, as they have no MP's in scotland, whereas Labour have loads, so if you are accusing Cam of self interest, his self interest would have been to secretly hope FOR an Yes vote


 cam cant be seen to be encouraging a break up of the union,as for the tories winning the next ge I doubt this as its not only the scots who wont vote for them,they only won the last election by going into a coalition.as my thoughts on politics are not as informed as your own I,ll finish this line of conversation.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> cam cant be seen to be encouraging a break up of the union,as for the tories winning the next ge I doubt this as its not only the scots who wont vote for them,they only won the last election by going into a coalition.as my thoughts on politics are not as informed as your own I,ll finish this line of conversation.


thats all true and possible

The situation you were referring to earlier is this:
In scotland, the Labour gets about 40 MP's, the tories are lucky to get 1 MP.
Therefore, the number of MP's the Labour Party gains in scotland plays a good part in the them gaining the highest number of overall MP's in the whole of the Uk, to win a General Election.
Therefore, if you were going to make a point about political and electoral advantage, it would have worked out in _favour_ of the Tories if Scotland went independent, but would have been terrible news for the Labour Party.
Therefore, when you say that you wouldnt have been surprised if secretly that David Cameron was more upset about the idea of scots rejecting the Tories, and not the union, if they went independent, that is not likely, if you consider the electoral advantage explained above.
That's why many people have actually said that secretly/unofficially, they wouldn't be surpised if David Cameron thought the opposite - he would be glad if the scots left the union, BECAUSE they dont vote tory

Many left wing/socialist/labour party supporters gave this as one of their reasons for opposing Scottish independence.

I think its a shame the scots didnt go for it and vote yes, but nothing to do with any of the above.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

spannels said:


> Yes, that's the one. It wasn't a brilliant offer, as you say, but it could have been a starting point to build on. And when Prescott and Co. backed off from it you couldn't see them for dust lol. They never offered it to anyone else.
> 
> I quite agree with your assessment of the parties involved though, they're the same ones that out of spite wanted the whole of the South to be covered in new build new towns. What they didn't do, to my mind unforgivably, was get the North revitalised and regenerated.
> 
> *But hey, that's all water under the bridge now.*


Better than a secretary under Lord Prescott . . .

There is speculation that Scotland's massive 'yes" support will fuel renewed interest in the local assemblies . . . but we still don't trust the scum.


----------



## spannels (Sep 9, 2011)

Let's trust 'em as far as we can throw 'em  . 

But let's get out of them everything we can, before we throw them. It's high time we got all the constitution stuff out, dusted it off, scraped off the barnacles and got something we can all live with.

What we need is some real passion (hey - you Scots there, can you bottle some of your passion for export down here?) in the bellies of the people who have to do it, then we'll get it sorted, and in good time. No passion - no reform. Or even worse, bad reform that no-one can abide.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Better than a secretary under Lord Prescott . . .
> 
> There is speculation that Scotland's massive 'yes" support will fuel renewed interest in the local assemblies . . . but we still don't trust the scum.


...poor secretary(ewwwwwww)lol


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> I think Scotland will be [email protected] on from a great height in respect of any power, worthy of any note, being given to them. I was listening to some Tory MP today on the radio and he totally bluffed his way through the questions of when Scotland would start to see these promised powers. It was all prevarication and procrastination.
> 
> Cameron opened his mouth and let his belly rumble in desperation last week. It was a moment of panic with no intent.
> 
> .


Gordon brown announced earlier today that they will set everything they promised in motion asap...watch this space.lol


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> very few in Scotland vote tory,can only really think of 1 msp ruth Davidson,scotland vote labour....we get a tory government,glasgow did vote for indy.i voted no as I,m happy to be part of the union.....not happy to be governed by an unelected government.makes sense to me.


proportional representation would be a fairer system.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Just read a suggestion on the letters page of the Indie - kick out the Lords, make the Lords the English Assembly and make the Commons the body over all four assemblies. Simples.....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Gordon brown announced earlier today that they will set everything they promised in motion asap...watch this space.lol


A bloke who has absolutely no power at this time has promised the first 'draft' will be ready by the end of January.

After that, it will still need to be fine-tuned by which time a General Election is due and all parties will be focused on that.

All the main parties have promised to deliver more power to Scotland but they have to keep that promise if elected.

Once the GE is over, and a new cabinet established, the Scottish draft (if honoured) will come back to the table. It then has to go through all the various channels that allow these powers to be allowed.

It is not a quick fix by any means.

Also, Cameron would have happily seen the back of Scotland were it not for two things - Scotland does produce a decent bit of revenue into the pot and he didn't want to go down in history as the bloke who lost the Union. His ego was doing the pleading last week, nothing more.

.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2014)

OMG theres another one...again...


----------



## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I truly hope that the government lives up to it's promises to more power in the hands of the various regions and countries. I think it's very much a "I will believe it when I see it" situation. That may just be me being sceptical with the recent events and the proposed Welsh tax powers that turned out to be pretty much a token gesture due to all of the restrictions placed on it though, along with the blocking of EU funding, sorry 

It may sound ignorant of me, and it probably is, but until reading on here over the last couple of months I didn't realise that the various regions of England had similar grievances to the people in the other UK countries. 

One thing is certain, even with a a no vote is has awakened people in all of the UK regions to want a fairer deal and with enough campaigning I hope they get it.


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

catpud said:


> One thing is certain, even with a a no vote is has awakened people in all of the UK regions to want a fairer deal and with enough campaigning I hope they get it.


*It would take Blair hanging by his balls from a lampost for any politicians to take notice of the electorate.
Out all of 'em he was the expert at totally ignoring public opinion. *


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> thats all true and possible
> 
> The situation you were referring to earlier is this:
> In scotland, the Labour gets about 40 MP's, the tories are lucky to get 1 MP.
> ...


 I agree with MB, Cameron was desperate not to lose Scotland - 1) because of its revenue, 2) because he would go down in history as the PM that lost Scotland + 3) he would have had to step down as PM.

Scotland voted No to stay in the union, yet hes so grateful that right now hes on a mission to punish Scotland (and everyone else who believes in democracy) Cameron is attempting to disable Labour MP's by not allowing Scottish MP's to vote on English matters. Cameron has stitched up Scotland good & proper!

As someone just said - "If only Cameron had made it clear before the referendum that all he had to offer Scotland was reduced voting privileges for Scottish MPs."

.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

RiggerDigger said:


> The vote was rigged, there are various youtube videos being shared on FB right now, showing corruption during vote counts. Shocking!
> 
> The Scottish people have been robbed, and skulduggery was the dish of the day.
> 
> ...


I've seen some of the videos & have to say they do look very suspicious to me. IMO they warrant further investigation, if this is just swept aside as nonsense, it will only make people more angry.

.

.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

poohdog said:


> *It would take Blair hanging by his balls from a lampost for any politicians to take notice of the electorate.
> Out all of 'em he was the expert at totally ignoring public opinion. *


I will now and forever more start taking more notice of lampposts.

lol


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Russell Brand; "Were the cards stacked against independence?" 'How Westminster Fear & Media Bias Shafted Scotland'

[youtube_browser]/CNBHAm9YGCY[/youtube_browser]


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> I agree with MB, Cameron was desperate not to lose Scotland - 1) because of its revenue, 2) because he would go down in history as the PM that lost Scotland + 3) he would have had to step down as PM.
> 
> *i agree he had all these reasons. However, these are different to the idea MB had about him being more concerned about their rejection of the tories over the union.*
> 
> ...


*

And thats twisting it - he is offering INCREASED voting privileges for MSP's. Thats the point, and thats the great achievement the scots cherish, yes and no voters, and the knock on effect for the rest of the UK gaining similar devolved democracy is what nearly everyone cherishes. 
You are out on a limb on this one. If anything, you views appear to chime with the old fashioned unionist conservatives that have just bitched that cameron should not have offered this devo max at the last minute as he shouldnt have messed with the traditional status quo.

everyone else across the land is cock a hoop of increased devolved democracy away from the corrupt westminster elite. 
If anything, Its milliband thats gonna end up being seen as the dodgy one here - putting self interested party politics before people's democracy*


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

And now, after Alex Salmond made his emotional speech after the defeat, he says that the No voters were swayed and conned.

Somebody needs to tell him to stop snivelling and accept the result that Scotland voted No.

Take it like a man, stand on his own 2 feet and be gracious about it...cos quite frankly his whining makes me feel embarrassed for him and the more whining and crying not fair etc makes me realize even more how Scotland did not need this man at the helm.

Nicola Sturgeon looks set to carry on...hopefully she will do a better job at it than he did.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Russell Brand; "Were the cards stacked against independence?" 'How Westminster Fear & Media Bias Shafted Scotland'
> 
> [youtube_browser]/CNBHAm9YGCY[/youtube_browser]


 noushka has Russell brand had breast implants?.now either my eyesight is far worse than anticipated or Russell has something to tell us :yikes:


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

We'll all add another level of idle, corrupt bureaucracy, funded and maintained by the public purse if we aren't careful. 

How many councils are not the case of "scratch my back I'll scratch yours"? How are people going to prevent the same thing?


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Tails and Trails said:


> i agree he had all these reasons. However, these are different to the idea MB had about him being more concerned about their rejection of the tories over the union.


I have made no mention at any time about Cameron being more concerned about the Scots rejction of the Tories. Scotland rejected the Tories a very long time ago and I think it was a mute point in regards to the referendum.

.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> I have made no mention at any time about Cameron being more concerned about the Scots rejction of the Tories. Scotland rejected the Tories a very long time ago and I think it was a mute point in regards to the referendum.
> 
> .


it wasnt you. name mix up i think.

as it happens, i have just been posting the exact same thing you have just posted


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tails and Trails said:


> thats immaterial. that thought stream is just another example of your own agenda mining. The principle about scottish westminster MP's not voting on english only devolved matters which Holyrood NoT westminster control in scotland is completely fair and valid. The West Lothian Question has existed for decades way before Cam, and it was this anomaly and abuse of power that helped get us the tuition fees. Its ridiculous to say it a punishment for scotland. Why oh why on earth would a Scotland that wants devo max give a fig if they cant vote on english only matters??? That makes absolutely no logic. It is milliband that is putting tribal party interests before nation and fairness as he just knows if he wins the next GE on the back of having 40 odd MP's in scotland, devo max and the west lothian adjustment would mean that he would not be able to pass some of his government policies without the votes of those 40 odd. *Good. Thats just a shot up the arse to ONE of the status quo establishment parties that partisan control of parliament and tribal governance is no longer accepted by the people anymore. Just throw in PR, and the horrid establishment tories and labour would have to kiss their protected privileged position good bye and govern by consensus anyway, so the 40 odd voting block would just accord with the reality of negotiation, compromise, and inclusiveness and consultation, when it came to voting measures in parliament on ALL issues ALL of the time.
> 
> And thats twisting it - he is offering INCREASED voting privileges for MSP's. Thats the point, and thats the great achievement the scots cherish, yes and no voters, and the knock on effect for the rest of the UK gaining similar devolved democracy is what nearly everyone cherishes.
> You are out on a limb on this one. If anything, you views appear to chime with the old fashioned unionist conservatives that have just bitched that cameron should not have offered this devo max at the last minute as he shouldnt have messed with the traditional status quo.
> ...


*

This is the vision of the only genuine democratic party - the ONLY party with a trustworthy leadership and MP! An open letter from Caroline Lucas MP to the three party leaders | Left Foot Forward

.*


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> noushka has Russell brand had breast implants?.now either my eyesight is far worse than anticipated or Russell has something to tell us :yikes:


 Blimey Molly :eek6: it really does look like hes had an enhancement job! :lol:

.


----------



## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Completely agree that Cameron must be delighted at the opportunity to kick Labour out of England, but also think that if he doesn't address the English problem then UKIP are likely to make a killing out of it in the next election. 

And I do think, when Devomax is in for Scotland, that if Labour can't get enough votes in England to influence policy then they shouldn't be able to do it off the back of the Scottish Labour MPs. I am not overjoyed about a choice between a Tory/UKIP coalition and a Tory one but if that is not what people want they need to get out and vote.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

> Noushka; Now whos twisting it? If the pledge to Scotland is broken, in any way!, no one will be more disgusted than me!. English devo is a separate matter, it should never have been lumped with Scotlands, this is Cameron seizing an opportunity to turn Westminster into a Tory dominated parliament. Scotland controls its NHS and schools but an English only vote will mean Scottish labour MP's will no longer have a say on health, education and taxation, not to mention environmental issues which affect everyone! hunting ban, badger cull - ( & no can deny labour MP's have always been strongest on these issues).


But the pledge to Scotland ISNT being broken.
Cam has just stated the obvious logical conclusion, which parliamentarians for decades have pointed out - it was the left wing Labour MP Tam Dayell that identitifed the West Lothian question.
If we devolve areas of policy and government to a scottish devolved parliament, what right then do the Scottish MP's have to vote on what happens to you and me in england or wales or even northern ireland, if it means that we will be forced to have something that we dont want, yet the scots wont have to have it, as the scottish parliament governs that area and dont agree with making this law?
For example, tony blair got his awful tuition fees law thru parliament by including votes from the 40 odd labour MPs from scotland, yet labour MSPs voted against tuition fees.
highly unfair, highly unjust, and highly undemocratic.

fixing this doesnt mean labour can never win a Uk wide GE. Its just means that if they introduce laws that come under the powers of the scottish parliament, then scottish MPs in westminster OF ALL PARTIES dont have the right to vote on them. Its immaterial and moot what party these guys come from, its a principle of democracy and justice that has goes beyond political parties, and i would be appalled if Milliband would block progressive reform of our nation to reclaim powers away from the corrupt self serving westminster establishment, because he puts party interests first. He would end up forming an nasty little alliance with anti scottish devo max tory MPs' that are complaining about Cameron's initiatives.

Quiet simply, Westminster MP's will vote on Uk wide issues. Scottish MSP's will vote on theirs, Welsh Assembly on theirs, NI assembly on theirs, London assembly on theirs, and the same should happen with English regions. Throw in total voting reform of PR, a referendum to leave the EU political union, and giving votes to 16 and 17 year olds, recall of elected officials, swiss style referendum powers, and then we have power democratized down the line and many more new and different types of political parties and views represented in parliaments.
Labour can field candidates in all these parliaments and assemblies just along with the tories and anyone else. Its up to them to win elections. After all, if they were good enough, then they would win westminster AND holyrood, so both labour parties can have the same policy involving something like education and both introduce the same law to parliament.

We do ALL these measures and we will no longer have a system rigged only to the advantage of Tory and Labour

and i dont understand why you linked that caroline lucas letter, so hasnt said anything that would go against my odeas or back up what you just so in response to them. She just asked for a people's consitutional convention - great idea.

we ought to have representatives that even members of political parties


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> thats immaterial. that thought stream is just another example of your own agenda mining. The principle about scottish westminster MP's not voting on english only devolved matters which Holyrood NoT westminster control in scotland is completely fair and valid. The West Lothian Question has existed for decades way before Cam, and it was this anomaly and abuse of power that helped get us the tuition fees. Its ridiculous to say it a punishment for scotland. Why oh why on earth would a Scotland that wants devo max give a fig if they cant vote on english only matters??? That makes absolutely no logic.


As Scotland decided it wanted to stay in the UK, Scottish MPs, just like English MPs, are elected to the *UK* Parliament. The UK Parlaiment discusses very few matters that pertain only to England. UK MPs, whichever their country of origin within the UK, should be allowed to vote upon all matters discussed by the UK Parliament. Anything other than this is treating them as lesser than their counterparts.



Tails and Trails said:


> Quiet simply, Westminster MP's will vote on Uk wide issues. Scottish MSP's will vote on theirs, Welsh Assembly on theirs, NI assembly on theirs, London assembly on theirs, and the same should happen with English regions. Throw in total voting reform of PR, a referendum to leave the EU political union, and giving votes to 16 and 17 year olds, recall of elected officials, swiss style referendum powers, and then we have power democratized down the line and many more new and different types of political parties and views represented in parliaments.
> Labour can field candidates in all these parliaments and assemblies just along with the tories and anyone else. Its up to them to win elections. After all, if they were good enough, then they would win westminster AND holyrood, so both labour parties can have the same policy involving something like education and both introduce the same law to parliament.
> 
> We do ALL these measures and we will no longer have a system rigged only to the advantage of Tory and Labour


It would be woinderful if that were to happen. But I've not seen any of that on the table. Cameron hasn't promised any of that. *ALL* he's promised is to take votes away from Scottish MPs - and you might think that all the above will happen automatically, but the reality of the situation is that Cammeron will be like the cat who has the cream.

If Scotland had voted yes he'd have been laughed out of office. But since Scotland voted no, they have given him carte blanche to stop Scottish MPs voting on any matters other than Scottish matters which, in turn, means the Tories will suddenly have an overwhelming majority in the House of Commons. Guess who will be laughing all the way to the next General Election - and the next several after that?


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Spellweaver said:


> As Scotland decided it wanted to stay in the UK, Scottish MPs, just like English MPs, are elected to the *UK* Parliament. The UK Parlaiment discusses very few matters that pertain only to England. UK MPs, whichever their country of origin within the UK, should be allowed to vote upon all matters discussed by the UK Parliament. Anything other than this is treating them as lesser than their counterparts.


actually, there are far more matter discussed in Uk parliament that are devolved to scotland and/or wales and/or N.I. than you realise.
And the point being, all 3 parties are now saying, as regards scotland, there will be loads more, devo max. 
so yeh, it would be a complete injustice for scottish based MPs to vote upon things that only affect us english (and or welsh/n.irish)

so westminster MPs, regardless of their country of origin, should, indeed, be free to discuss Uk wide issues, for the reason you say


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Gordon brown announced earlier today that they will set everything they promised in motion asap...watch this space.lol


And the people of the UK voted him in when!!



Spellweaver said:


> As Scotland decided it wanted to stay in the UK, Scottish MPs, just like English MPs, are elected to the *UK* Parliament. The UK Parlaiment discusses very few matters that pertain only to England. UK MPs, whichever their country of origin within the UK, should be allowed to vote upon all matters discussed by the UK Parliament. Anything other than this is treating them as lesser than their counterparts.
> 
> It would be woinderful if that were to happen. But I've not seen any of that on the table. Cameron hasn't promised any of that. *ALL* he's promised is to take votes away from Scottish MPs - and you might think that all the above will happen automatically, but the reality of the situation is that Cammeron will be like the cat who has the cream.
> 
> If Scotland had voted yes he'd have been laughed out of office. But since Scotland voted no, they have given him carte blanche to stop Scottish MPs voting on any matters other than Scottish matters which, in turn, means the Tories will suddenly have an overwhelming majority in the House of Commons. Guess who will be laughing all the way to the next General Election - and the next several after that?


Maybe then Labour need to change their policies so that they are actually acceptable to the electorate.

I read an article the other day thats said Cameron had actually played a blinder - he did not allow Devo Max on the ballot because there would have had to be firm proposals set out. (Am not convinced as I don't think he is clever enough!)

As it is the so called Vow does not really offer much, promises to keep the Barnett forumula (for those who don't know its some vague *** packet calculations done 30 odd years ago and results in Scottish citizens getting 20% more spent on them, roughly £1500 each per annum). Doesn't say they aren't going to alter the Barnett formula though does it!

In my view the United Kingdom will only stay united if things are made fair across the country. Personally I think it is outrageous that Scottish MP's are allowed to vote on matters that do not affect them - unless its reciprocal and English MPs vote on solely Scottish matters.

The Barnett formula should be scrapped or altered so that its fair - interesting to note on the map of poor areas of the UK (was it on this thread?) how many were in Scotland none that I can recall so why do they get the highest funding


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> And the people of the UK voted him in when!!
> 
> Maybe then Labour need to change their policies so that they are actually acceptable to the electorate.
> 
> ...


absolutely re Gordon brown


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Time to sort those yes voters out


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