# Ligament damage



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

So, today T saw a cat, started to run then screamed in pain. We have been to the vet, ligament damage in his knee. On painkillers, anti-inflammatories and strict rest for at least 10 days. Oh, and we are in Spain, which means I'm not quite as confident in my understanding of what the vet told us.

His knee twisted and has damaged, but not torn the ligament.

If anyone is good at reading x-rays, please feel free to jump in. Right knee, shown on the left of this photo.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

No expert whatsoever over X-rays, all I think I can see is a little bit of swelling at the right knee. Hips look reasonable though


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you. He apparently has a touch of arthrosis (deterioration of the bone) in his left hip but nothing to worry about.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you. He apparently has a touch of arthrosis (deterioration of the bone) in his left hip but nothing to worry about.


There looks to be a bit of deterioration on the left side of the femur doesn't there, it's not as well fitted as the right side which could acould account for that. What age is he now?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He was 11 in June.

I just wish I could take his pain.

My current worry is that he hasn't pooed since this morning (should have done one more by now). I think he can't work out how to balance on 3 legs. I know when the need overcomes the awkwardness, he will - but if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Although if they involve anything like a towel to support his belly, that would likely put him off even more


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

No advice just wanted to say I hope Timber gets better soon.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> He was 11 in June.
> 
> I just wish I could take his pain.
> 
> My current worry is that he hasn't pooed since this morning (should have done one more by now). I think he can't work out how to balance on 3 legs. I know when the need overcomes the awkwardness, he will - but if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Although if they involve anything like a towel to support his belly, that would likely put him off even more


Ahh,so sorry to hear this,poor little T and I can imagine how stressful it must be for you.I don't have any experience of ligament damage but from my experience of when Maci had his amputation,he soon learned to balance on three legs to poo.I think it was more of a challenge to realise that he couldn't cock his leg to pee.He development a stooping position,that he still does, which is the cutest thing ever .They are amazingly resilient but I know that doesn't stop us from worrying about them.I hope the pain meds work for him and maybe a bottle of something for you.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh no poor Timber 
The only thing I know for helping him poo would be good pain meds. 
Why do they always do stuff like this away from home?

Penny jumped out of the car today and I wasn't watching her, I grabbed some groceries, still no Penny, went to look for her and she was half under the car licking her foot. 
I can't find a thing wrong with it, other than one outside toe is sore when I touch it. I don't know if she tweaked it getting out of the car or if she got stung or what but she's 3 legged right now and so ridiculously pitiful.


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Quick reply @JoanneF as I'm in bed -
For pooing help, see if you can find any lumps or stone or filled flowerpots or the like that are between ankle and bum height. Smart dogs with back leg injuries will often essentially kind of reverse into the lump and poo onto the ledge. Another alternative support is if they line themselves up parallel for side-on support. This is more attractive to small dogs than walls as less overwhelming or looming in height. Benches or tire-stacks or post and rail fences are all decent alternatives too.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

I hope Timber has managed to poo today and his painkillers are working


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Hows Timber today?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

No better I'm afraid, but I wasn't really expecting any improvement yet. Main concern is he hasn't had a poo since yesterday morning, I don't think he can find a comfortable way to squat.

I gave him some milk, which I believe can have a laxative effect. Oily fish later. But if anyone else has good home remedies I'd like to hear them.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Oh no poor Timber. Sorry, I have no advice but I hope he's feeling better soon and poops too!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> No better I'm afraid, but I wasn't really expecting any improvement yet. Main concern is he hasn't had a poo since yesterday morning, I don't think he can find a comfortable way to squat.
> 
> I gave him some milk, which I believe can have a laxative effect. Oily fish later. But if anyone else has good home remedies I'd like to hear them.


Only just seen this and wanted to say I'm so sorry. Poor Timber; I hope he improves soon.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> No better I'm afraid, but I wasn't really expecting any improvement yet. Main concern is he hasn't had a poo since yesterday morning, I don't think he can find a comfortable way to squat.
> 
> I gave him some milk, which I believe can have a laxative effect. Oily fish later. But if anyone else has good home remedies I'd like to hear them.


Coconut oil has a laxative effect.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

ForestWomble said:


> Coconut oil has a laxative effect.


Sadly, we are away in the van and that isn't something I carry. I think I have olive oil though.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> Sadly, we are away in the van and that isn't something I carry. I think I have olive oil though.


Olive oil would work. Hope T feels more comfortable and can have a poo soon, that can't be helping the discomfort. 
Bungo sends T licks.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Just a thought, not nice but a little oil around and just inside his bottom might make the exit a little easier. He could be a little bunged as he hasn’t been in a while. 
Hope Timber soon feels a little more comfy.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks everyone, we have now had a poo. Woop woop!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

JoanneF said:


> Thanks everyone, we have now had a poo. Woop woop!


Hurrah!


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Brilliant, hope you did a 'poo dance'.I do if Maci's had an iffy tum and then we get a decent 'deposit' :Smuggrin.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Oh yes, we had a little poo party!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Update.

He seems a lot better today. Still not putting weight on the leg, but he has figured out that it isn't the one to stand on while raising the other to wee. He has had another poo. But, where yesterday he would just stand and look at me when I put him down (I'm carrying him to places he is likely to toilet at), today he was keen to search out the perfect poo place.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh poor little dude! I'm glad he's doing better, but I hate he's still not weight bearing. 
Then again, may be a good thing to let it heal properly.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Best wishes to Timber, I am pleased he has worked out his toilet issues. I hope he heals quickly.

Alfie has on going ligament problems too which I thought were getting better but today he has stopped weight bearing on his good leg.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Great news Timber!! Hope it’s all good progress from here.

Sorry Alfie has had a set back. Everything crossed it’s a little hic cup and yes soon back on track.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Kaily said:


> Best wishes to Timber, I am pleased he has worked out his toilet issues. I hope he heals quickly.
> 
> Alfie has on going ligament problems too which I thought were getting better but today he has stopped weight bearing on his good leg.


I couldn't 'like' your post but thank you for the kind wishes. How long has Alfie had a problem, what happened to him?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Oh poor little dude! I'm glad he's doing better, but I hate he's still not weight bearing.
> Then again, may be a good thing to let it heal properly.


That was my thought too.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

JoanneF said:


> I couldn't 'like' your post but thank you for the kind wishes. How long has Alfie had a problem, what happened to him?


petforums.co.uk/threads/possible-cruciate-ligament-problem.540930/


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Aw, poor Alfie. We certainly knew when T hurt himself, he screamed


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

Sorry, I have only just read this. I hope Timber is improving and feeling more comfortable. Sending you a big hug.x


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I hope you don't mind me asking but did the vet diagnose the ligament damage from the xray or did Timber have an ultrasound as well?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

It was from the x ray. As far as I know he didn't do an ultrasound (but he was taken away from us for the x ray so I guess it's possible, but I think they would have said when they explained.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

How is Timber doing? I hope he is improving.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He still isn't putting it on the ground. I don't know if that's bad or good - good in that he isn't stressing it, bad in that it must still hurt. He has painkillers for today and tomorrow, the vet said we could start gentle exercise after that but I don't feel like we should if he is still on only three legs.

As ever, if anyone has any thoughts, I would appreciate you sharing them.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

How about a brace around the knee to help take the strain off it when he starts to put it on the ground? A while back, someone was asking about them on here and the name of someone who custom-makes them came up, though they'd be easy enough to make yourself with some sewing skills. Has the vet recommended that you manipulate the leg, stretch and straighten? I had a relatively minor knee dislocation a few weeks ago, was trying to carry on as normal with the bones out of place,and the physio I saw once it had gone back into place gave me exercised to do to, so when the ligaments heal they're not shorter than before with scar tissue.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks @Burrowzig , I'd buy a brace but I'd worry if I made one I'd somehow make it worse because I'd have the support in the wrong place or something. I wasn't told anything about stretching and manipulating, but we were abroad so the language barrier may have contributed. If its no better by Tuesday we will need to go to our own vet.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> He still isn't putting it on the ground. I don't know if that's bad or good - good in that he isn't stressing it, bad in that it must still hurt. He has painkillers for today and tomorrow, the vet said we could start gentle exercise after that but I don't feel like we should if he is still on only three legs.
> 
> As ever, if anyone has any thoughts, I would appreciate you sharing them.


Seems very early to start exercise. Have a look at Cruciate operation recovery, and that should give you an idea of time frame of recovery. I would think a month is minimum and 6 weeks best, before any exercise outside the house


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He didn't have an op though @rona - that said, I'm happy to give it a lot more time if that's what's needed.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> He didn't have an op though @rona - that said, I'm happy to give it a lot more time if that's what's needed.


No, but conservative is very similar recovery


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Here you go 
https://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co...ion-of-cranial-cruciate-ligament-ccl-disease/


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Thanks @Burrowzig , I'd buy a brace but I'd worry if I made one I'd somehow make it worse because I'd have the support in the wrong place or something. I wasn't told anything about stretching and manipulating, but we were abroad so the language barrier may have contributed. If its no better by Tuesday we will need to go to our own vet.


Personally I'd go to your own vet as soon as you can. I'm no expert but I don't think ligament damage would show on an x-ray. When Holly suffered a soft tissue injury a few years ago now nobody, including my excellent chiropractor and vet, knew exactly what she'd done. I got a referral to Animal Health Trust with their leading neurological specialist for a consultation and MRI. I stood with her and viewed the images and absolutely nothing showed up. She was happy for me to re-commence agility training with her. 6 months later the same injury happened again and Holly was retired. My point is that even MRIs don't always show soft tissue damage.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks all. We just got home on Friday so haven't had the chance to go to our vet but I was planning to call them tomorrow anyway.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Been to our own vet, who recommends surgery.

That's fine, it's the 6 weeks crate rest that will be a nightmare.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Been to our own vet, who recommends surgery.
> 
> That's fine, it's the 6 weeks crate rest that will be a nightmare.


They are sure it's cruciate then?

What op?


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> Been to our own vet, who recommends surgery.
> 
> That's fine, it's the 6 weeks crate rest that will be a nightmare.


oh I am so sorry, My dogs haven't suffered this, my heart goes out to you. How are your dogs now? have you got them help? if you need a shoulder to cry on, I am here for you.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> They are sure it's cruciate then?
> 
> What op?


Yes, definitely cruciate. I don't know which op yet, their orthopaedic vet works in another branch so the vet we saw is going to discuss it with her and they will call with their recommendations.



Ellierose1 said:


> oh I am so sorry, My dogs haven't suffered this, my heart goes out to you. How are your dogs now? have you got them help? if you need a shoulder to cry on, I am here for you.


Thank you, that's very kind. Just waiting for the surgery to be scheduled now.


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> Yes, definitely cruciate. I don't know which op yet, their orthopaedic vet works in another branch so the vet we saw is going to discuss it with her and they will call with their recommendations.
> 
> Thank you, that's very kind. Just waiting for the surgery to be scheduled now.


I am here for you. did they say roughly when It will be? sorry If i am being nosy


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Ellierose1 said:


> I am here for you. did they say roughly when It will be? sorry If i am being nosy


No, they just need to get it into the right vet's diary. Not long hopefully.


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> No, they just need to get it into the right vet's diary. Not long hopefully.


I wish you and your dog a safe and gentle recovery, Have you got support with this? of course we're here but maybe a hug ? I am sending you my hugs


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Been to our own vet, who recommends surgery.
> 
> That's fine, it's the 6 weeks crate rest that will be a nightmare.


Sorry to hear that. Yes the aftercare is hard work. You would be surprised though how well the dogs cope with cage rest. I thought Barley would be a nightmare but in fact she was very sensible.


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

Twiggy said:


> Sorry to hear that. Yes the aftercare is hard work. You would be surprised though how well the dogs cope with cage rest. I thought Barley would be a nightmare but in fact she was very sensible.


well said. hope your okay


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you @Ellierose1 , yes there is plenty of support. So we will be fine.

And, @Twiggy, we will be allowed to go out in his buggy so I think that will keep us sane.


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you @Ellierose1 , yes there is plenty of support. So we will be fine.
> 
> And, @Twiggy, we will be allowed to go out in his buggy so I think that will keep us sane.


no worries  want to chat? on here orr just bored haha, just want to get to know you all


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Sorry to hear that, poor Timber and poor you. The crate rest scares me too.


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## Ellierose1 (Nov 1, 2021)

Kaily said:


> Sorry to hear that, poor Timber and poor you. The crate rest scares me too.


hope she can be supported, big group hugs


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## edinoodle (Oct 18, 2019)

Sorry to hear about Timber, I hope the op is successful and he copes well with the crate rest. It’s good that he’ll be able to go out and about in the buggy. Hope you’re okay


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you @Ellierose1 , yes there is plenty of support. So we will be fine.
> 
> And, @Twiggy, we will be allowed to go out in his buggy so I think that will keep us sane.


After the first two weeks, I think, (might be three) you have to start lead walking them beginning with about 5 minutes and gradually building it up as many times a day as you can manage.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Twiggy said:


> After the first two weeks, I think, (might be three) you have to start lead walking them beginning with about 5 minutes and gradually building it up as many times a day as you can manage.


Thank you @Twiggy, that would certainly help.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh Timber full tear 
Sorry to hear about the surgery, and crate rest, but glad you know exactly what it is and it's fixable. 
I think he'll do better with crate rest than you realize. And of course you will be a wonderful rehab mom


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Sorry to hear little Timber needs surgery. Sounds like his stroller will be invaluable,it was a great move to get it.Hope you get a date soon.Maci sends his sympathy to Timber,he says the worst thing about the ops he's had has been no breakfast on the day .


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

My last dog had a cruciate repair when she was 8. For the first two weeks or so I made a small area in the hallway to confine her so that she had enough room to turn around comfortably and a small area for water and food bowl. It was right by an outside door we don’t use very often so that was very handy for taking her outside to toilet.
After a few weeks I would have her on a lead tied to a table leg and spent my days with her there so she was part of normal life but unable to move much which suited her. Just being able to be there was enough entertainment I think.
When she was allowed to go for short walks I would just take her out for a few minutes initially, gradually increasing the length. The worst bit was after 3 months of lead walking I was able to let her off the lead once again. My main concern was that she would do what she normally did on release was to bound off and run like the clappers for a bit. So I walked her on lead for half the walk before letting her off and she didn’t do her normal tank round the field, just trotted off. I guess the walk before letting her off had lowered the excitement level. Did this for probably another month before going back to normal
One thing that did help her recovery was an aqua therapy course which can be started once the wound has healed.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I think he'll do better with crate rest than you realize. And of course you will be a wonderful rehab mom


Thank you, I hope so.



Silverpaw said:


> Maci sends his sympathy to Timber,he says the worst thing about the ops he's had has been no breakfast on the day


I haven't told him that part yet!



Siskin said:


> One thing that did help her recovery was an aqua therapy course which can be started once the wound has healed.


I'm definitely asking the vet about that, I believe there is a facility close by.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> we will be allowed to go out in his buggy so I think that will keep us sane


She won't want to do anything for at least a week and you will be too scared to move her....................

After that it gets more scary as you try and stop her moving too much!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you, I hope so.
> 
> I haven't told him that part yet!
> 
> I'm definitely asking the vet about that, I believe there is a facility close by.


If you get a vet referral for aqua therapy then the insurance company should cover it, if you have insurance


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you, I hope so.
> 
> I haven't told him that part yet!
> 
> I'm definitely asking the vet about that, I believe there is a facility close by.


Barley started hydrotherapy as soon as my vet gave permission. Also went up to my chiro several times.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Yes, he has a good insurance policy so I'm hoping it will be covered.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

So sorry to hear Timber needs surgery 

Sending get well wishes and hope it goes well.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh I’m sorry he has to have surgery.
Hope all goes well. Take it a step at a time.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Yes, definitely cruciate. I don't know which op yet, their orthopaedic vet works in another branch so the vet we saw is going to discuss it with her and they will call with their recommendations..


I was thinking of you yesterday, just seen this thread.

Poor T, and poor you. Sending gentle hugs to all.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks. I just wish we could get on with it now.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Hope Timber recovers well.
My neighbours dog has had both legs done now. Despite never being crated, they actually used a baby pen, she took to it fine.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

I t


JoanneF said:


> Thanks. I just wish we could get on with it now.


I think the waiting is the worst part.I've never had a dog with cruciate ligament surgery but I'm sure Timber will be ok because you will do whatever it takes for him to get through it.I remember when Maci had his amputation,after an agonising time trying to save the leg, telling him how sorry I was that he was going through it but that I would be with him every step of the way.And I was,day and night.You'll deal with things as they unfold, it's a shame it needs doing but little Timber knows he can depend on you.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Arny said:


> they actually used a baby pen, she took to it fine.


I thought of that but he has a bit of a kangaroo gene and I'm worried he tries to jump up (not necessarily out) and injures it. He used a crate when he was a pup so I'm hoping he remembers. We got rid of it when it became hard to get him to come out of it for the last toilet before bed ...



Silverpaw said:


> little Timber knows he can depend on you


Thank you.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> I thought of that but he has a bit of a kangaroo gene and I'm worried he tries to jump up (not necessarily out) and injures it. He used a crate when he was a pup so I'm hoping he remembers. We got rid of it when it became hard to get him to come out of it for the last toilet before bed ...
> 
> Thank you.


A friend lent me a huge GSD crate for Barley (medium size collie) and I padded the base and up the sides a bit with thick bedding so that she couldn't injure her leg but had a bit of room to move about.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

A friend has a crate that I’m going to look at tomorrow but if it is small, I’ll just buy a second hand large one. I want him to be able to not feel cramped. We have loads of things to pad it with, plenty beds, cushions, vet bed, sheepskin …


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> A friend has a crate that I'm going to look at tomorrow but if it is small, I'll just buy a second hand large one. I want him to be able to not feel cramped. We have loads of things to pad it with, plenty beds, cushions, vet bed, sheepskin …


You won't want to use anything that she might get her leg trapped in. It will be almost as if it's paralyzed for a while


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Update.

We are still waiting to schedule the surgery. He went in yesterday for more x-rays under general anaesthetic, the originals didn't give the orthopaedic vet enough information. He had a dental at the same time, just because he was under GA and it can't be done at the same time as the knee surgery because of infection risk. One wobbly tooth was extracted.

The nurse explained it all and told us he definitely needs the surgery because he has 'properly messed up' his ligament.

She also told us she was _supposed_ to tell us he might be sleepy, reluctant to eat and a bit out of it, but ... he actually was bouncing off the walls and none of them could believe he was either a dog who had just had GA, or a dog who is 11. So I think that's good.

He came home, peed a lot in the garden, had a big drink, some food, wanted to play, peed and pooed in the garden again, ate some more, and had a good night.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Update.
> 
> We are still waiting to schedule the surgery. He went in yesterday for more x-rays under general anaesthetic, the originals didn't give the orthopaedic vet enough information. He had a dental at the same time, just because he was under GA and it can't be done at the same time as the knee surgery because of infection risk. One wobbly tooth was extracted.
> 
> ...


Aww bless him. I hope it all goes well.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Aw Timber, good boy telling the GA where to go! :Hilarious

Best luck with the surgery!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> Update.
> 
> We are still waiting to schedule the surgery. He went in yesterday for more x-rays under general anaesthetic, the originals didn't give the orthopaedic vet enough information. He had a dental at the same time, just because he was under GA and it can't be done at the same time as the knee surgery because of infection risk. One wobbly tooth was extracted.
> 
> ...


Good ol' Timber 

Hope you don't have much longer to wait and it goes well.


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

Oh Jo, I am so sorry to hear that Timber needs surgery. I hope all is scheduled soon and he bounces back quickly and is back to mischief!xxx


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks all. I just want it to be done so we can get on with the recuperation and back to normal.

He is well insured, and complementary therapy like hydrotherapy is covered too, so we will be doing everything we can for him.

Edit - I made it sound a bit mercenary; we would be doing everything we can regardless of insurance. But insurance does make it easier!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Oh, and there's this too -


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I must have missed this thread sorry Timber has to have an operation but I’m sure he’s in good hands.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Thinking of you and Timber.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

We have heard from the vet, TPLO surgery on the 23rd.

We have restarted crate training. He was crated as a pup but we want him to love his crate. It's a new one, much bigger than he had before.

So far so good?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> We have heard from the vet, TPLO surgery on the 23rd.
> 
> We have restarted crate training. He was crated as a pup but we want him to love his crate. It's a new one, much bigger than he had before.
> 
> ...


You'll cope fine and so will Timber.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Glad you have a date but poor Timber needing surgery  hope it all goes well on the day and he had a speedy recovery! Good job he likes his doggie pushchair


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

So pleased that the crate training is going well. I hope everything goes well with the surgery. I have to say Jo, the picture of T in his dog buggy is beyond gorgeous!!xx


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

karenmc said:


> So pleased that the crate training is going well. I hope everything goes well with the surgery. I have to say Jo, the picture of T in his dog buggy is beyond gorgeous!!xx


He just loves it, I'm so glad we got it. He sits up and looks around, sniffing and listening - if we miss a trip out because of rain, he lets us know. It really has been a fabulous investment.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Crate re-training is going well.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Crate re-training is going well.
> 
> View attachment 479188


Not sure if that bed will be difficult immediately after the op, a flat mattress will be easier and less likely to catch the bad leg.

It may be a lot easier with a smaller dog, but I know that we could not have managed with a bed like that in the first 10 days or so


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Bless him what a good boy.

What are the dimensions of the crate please? Just in case I need similar for Alfie.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> Not sure if that bed will be difficult immediately after the op, a flat mattress will be easier and less likely to catch the bad leg.


Thanks @rona. We have a flat memory foam one that is normally in a bed with sides. I will take it out and use that.



Kaily said:


> What are the dimensions of the crate please? Just in case I need similar for Alfie.


@Kaily , it's this one

https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/pets-at-home-single-door-dog-crate-large-black-7127087p--1


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Thank you.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Surgery day.

I had a call from the orthopaedic vet yesterday, just asking if we had any questions and he sounded really nice - I know you can't really tell; and efficient and capable are better than 'nice' but it was reassuring. So we dropped T off at 8.00, we may not get him back until tomorrow. If they keep him in, they can do better post-op pain relief, but if he is stressed he might be better here at home so they will make a decision based on which is better for him.

So, today I have to sit and wonder what sort of things people without dogs do to occupy themselves all day.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Good luck to T and fingers crossed it’s successful and he’s back with you soon


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Ahh, bless him, hope it goes well.Hope you manage to fill the time, maybe get a rest if you can because you'll be busy caring for him once he's home and wondering what all the fuss is about.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Hope everything goes well x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Good surgery vibes to Timber and minimal stress waiting vibes for you!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

The waiting bit is just awful. Find a good podcast or drama on BBC sounds and do some boring cleaning or something that your mind can do without too much thinking involved! Maybe clean behind the dog beds and chuck some of his blankets in the wash so they are clean for when he gets home? 
Find a nice recipe to cook for lunch or tea. 
I'm lucky I have other dogs to occupy my time with when one has to go to the vets! Good vibes winging their way up to you.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Surgery day.
> 
> I had a call from the orthopaedic vet yesterday, just asking if we had any questions and he sounded really nice - I know you can't really tell; and efficient and capable are better than 'nice' but it was reassuring. So we dropped T off at 8.00, we may not get him back until tomorrow. If they keep him in, they can do better post-op pain relief, but if he is stressed he might be better here at home so they will make a decision based on which is better for him.
> 
> So, today I have to sit and wonder what sort of things people without dogs do to occupy themselves all day.


Aww thinking of you and Timber. The waiting is awful.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Just caught up with this thread. I hope all goes well with the op and Timber has a speedy recovery. Love the pushchair he looks so comfy (and cute). The house must seem empty without him today.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Best wishes for Timbers surgery today. Hope he is home and back on his four paws very soon.


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## Mum2Ozzy (Dec 21, 2020)

I hope it goes well for Timber, I can only imagine how worried you are x


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you everyone.

Timber is out of surgery, the vet called and said it went well and looks fine. He also had a bucket handle meniscus tear and that's been repaired too. So we are waiting to hear if he will be kept overnight (on the stronger medication) or discharged because the environment is causing more stress. It will be whatever is better for his well-being.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Hard work and worry starts now!!

Are you sleeping with him for a while?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> Hard work and worry starts now!!
> 
> Are you sleeping with him for a while?


Indeed. Actually, for the last year and a bit, he has chosen to sleep in our room. So the plan is to carry him up, put him on his memory foam pad, and block that into the space between the bed and the wall using a folded clothes airer that is just the right size. A bit like a baby gate, but something we have already.

That's his place anyway, it's only blocking him from getting out that is different. He doesn't try to get out of bed overnight normally so he should be fine.

But if it doesn't work for any reason then yes, I'll sleep next to his crate.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> Timber is out of surgery, the vet called and said it went well and looks fine. He also had a bucket handle meniscus tear and that's been repaired too. So we are waiting to hear if he will be kept overnight (on the stronger medication) or discharged because the environment is causing more stress. It will be whatever is better for his well-being.


Great news.
With my neighbours dog, her meniscus went not that long after the cruciate so had to have a second op. Very convenient they could Timber's at the same time.
Fingers crossed for a straight forward recovery.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Very pleased all went well. As rona said the hard part starts well, but he should be fine wants he accepts the situation. I was surprised how quickly Jodi accepted her new normal when she had her cruciate repaired


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Delighted to hear the operation went well. 
Sending healing vibes.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Glad the op went well! I’m sure his recovery will go well with you helping him


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Indeed. Actually, for the last year and a bit, he has chosen to sleep in our room. So the plan is to carry him up, put him on his memory foam pad.
> 
> But if it doesn't work for any reason then yes, I'll sleep next to his crate.


I think you will find the first couple of weeks hard to move him about.

Is he coming home tonight?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Glad it went well I hope you get him home soon.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> Is he coming home tonight?


Just had another call 5 minutes ago, he is to stay in overnight. He isn't bearing weight on the leg yet (whaaaaat? they expected that???) but he is settled (or maybe just well drugged 







).

I checked yesterday, the unit is staffed overnight and they offered to call with an update later but I said there's no need if there is nothing to report, I don't need them to be taking time to call me to say everything is the same. I'd rather they did what is more important and keep an eye on the patients.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> Just had another call 5 minutes ago, he is to stay in overnight. He isn't bearing weight on the leg yet (whaaaaat? they expected that???) but he is settled (or maybe just well drugged
> View attachment 479554
> ).
> 
> I checked yesterday, the unit is staffed overnight and they offered to call with an update later but I said there's no need if there is nothing to report, I don't need them to be taking time to call me to say everything is the same. I'd rather they did what is more important and keep an eye on the patients.


Probably best if he's settled rather than move him.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Just had another call 5 minutes ago, he is to stay in overnight. He isn't bearing weight on the leg yet (whaaaaat? they expected that???) but he is settled (or maybe just well drugged


I,m sure it's for the best. You will know why tomorrow...............


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> You will know why tomorrow....


Eek!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Good to hear he is settled and comfortable. Yes, better he stays overnight if he's not stressed.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Glad to hear the op went well.It feels awful when they have to stay overnight but I'm sure it's a decision that has been made in his best interest.I remember when Maci had his amputation and had to stay overnight.When we went to pick him up the next day, worried half to death after a sleepless night,he came bouncing out to us with his specialist orthopaedic surgeon who couldn't believe how bright he was.Sleep well, little Timber, and your lovely family, sweet dreams to you all.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Aww poor lad. Probably best if he’s all settled, I’m sure it’s just to keep an eye on him


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Glad to hear he is settled. 

Wishing you all a good sleep tonight and look forward to hearing he is home tomorrow.


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

Glad to hear the surgery has gone well. 
Hopefully he'll be home today for lots of love & cuddles.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Timber is home.

In the car on the way home, he couldn't find a comfortable position at first so it must be quite sore. The nurse said he wasn't actually putting weight on it, but rather just touching it to the floor for balance.

He seems really tired, very different from the last anaesthetic. I suspect he didn't get much sleep last night, even although they said he had had a good night. So he is in his bed, in his crate, dozing. I think he has a sore throat too, he tried a bark earlier and it was quite hoarse.

I had hoped to get him out in the buggy this afternoon but obviously I'm going to leave it now until tomorrow, he just wants to lie quietly.


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## edinoodle (Oct 18, 2019)

Glad he's home and hope he feels a bit better once he's had a good sleep and rest!


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Bless him. I imagine he just wants to convalesce at home for a while.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

How is Timber getting on?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Much better thank you. On Wednesday and Thursday he was quite subdued, by Friday a bit better and yesterday much better. He still isn't putting weight on the leg, but he will touch it to the floor for balance. His appetite and toileting are back to normal.

I got him a soft cone because he was still able to lick his leg with the inflatable collar on, and the soft cone is far nicer for him than the plastic one from the vet.

We took him out in the buggy yesterday, wrapped up in his blanket, and he was quite enthusiastic so that has to be a good sign.

He gets a check up at the vet on Wednesday.

How is Alfie?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just caught up with this, what a stressful time for you! My Toby had x2 TPLO op's & both went really well. I was extra careful durng his recovery period & he had[physio/hydrotherapy which really helped.

Once you get in to a routine you'll be fine. Lots of chews, lick mats, etc really help them. 

Once Toby had recovered & was back to normal you'd never have known there had been anything wrong. He was as mobile, fit & active as any other dog


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks @Cleo38 .

It's really stressful because he is such a fit and active little dog normally. We are definitely going to try for hydrotherapy, there's a place about 8 miles from here and our insurance will cover it anyway (I'd try it even if the insurance didn't).


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm glad he has perked up. One of the vets I saw with Alfie did say sometimes it is difficult to get them to use the leg again. I'm sure hydrotherapy, when he is ready for it will sort it out.

Alfie is ok but still intermittently lifting his leg. I have requested that his x-rays be sent to my own vet to see what she thinks. 

I saw a chow the other day who's cruicate had totally gone. He could hardly walk and clearly in pain. The owner had just brought him out for a wee. She was very stressed about the potential op because of the age of the dog and was going to try a brace. I can't see it working myself. She couldn't lift him to help him or anything. I did feel sad for both of them.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Having a small dog definitely makes it easier for carrying him out to toilet.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Glad to read that he's part way to being sorted. What surgery did he have?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> Glad to read that he's part way to being sorted. What surgery did he have?


It was a TPLO, specifically Cranial Closing Wedge Osteotomy.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

How's he doing today @JoanneF ? I found with Toby that he ended up literally barking orders at me as I was so worried about him that didn't realise I'd turned in to his servant


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He is still in bed this morning @Cleo38 . He has never been a morning dog! And I'm afraid I've always even his slave!

We didn't go out with him yesterday, it was bitterly cold here (and I had my covid booster appointment) but I'll take him out in the buggy this morning.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> He is still in bed this morning @Cleo38 . He has never been a morning dog! And I'm afraid I've always even his slave!
> 
> We didn't go out with him yesterday, it was bitterly cold here (and I had my covid booster appointment) but I'll take him out in the buggy this morning.


Hahahaha!, same here ... maybe I became more slave than servant!

Not sure if you use coats/fleeces anyway. I never really did with Toby as he didn't really need one but as he had metal plates in both knees I bought him an Equafleece onesie to keep his knees (& rest of him) warm when it was really cold. A friend altered them so the legs had velcro & would just wrap around his legs rather than him having to put them through (if that makes sense). They also do one with a zip along the top so the dog just steps in to it

My Toby in his ...


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

That looks great. We have Equafleece tankies so I know the size and I can get one with the legs and a zip, excellent idea!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Ooops,sorry I've missed this! It sounds as though Timber is well on the way to recovery bless him. Sending healing vibes to him from me and sympathetic woofs from Bobby.xx


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

The Schnauzer boys and their hooman hope Timber gets better soon.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

And today's brilliant physiotherapy tip follows.

I was told to hold T's paw and get his leg to do a sort of cycling motion. To say he wasn't happy is somewhat of an understatement.

But - this is genius - if I scratch below his ear, he does it himself! I'm sure we've all seen our dogs go into scratching motion when we do that, it works a treat!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> And today's brilliant physiotherapy tip follows.
> 
> I was told to hold T's paw and get his leg to do a sort of cycling motion. To say he wasn't happy is somewhat of an understatement.
> 
> But - this is genius - if I scratch below his ear, he does it himself! I'm sure we've all seen our dogs go into scratching motion when we do that, it works a treat!


Tango used to do that.
Is Timber on crate rest? If so how's that going?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He is on crate rest @SusieRainbow, but to be honest we have been allowing him out of the crate to lie on his mat. We have a small den that we use all the time just watching tv, and he can't really go anywhere so we have been in here that and watching him closely. To be fair, up to now he hasn't wanted to do much more than lie on his mat or in the crate anyway. It's actually going to be harder as he starts to feel better.

The soft cone has been a good buy, but I bought a size too big so I've sewn studs on it to make it more snug.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> He is on crate rest @SusieRainbow, but to be honest we have been allowing him out of the crate to lie on his mat. We have a small den that we use all the time just watching tv, and he can't really go anywhere so we have been in here that and watching him closely. To be fair, up to now he hasn't wanted to do much more than lie on his mat or in the crate anyway. It's actually going to be harder as he starts to feel better.
> 
> The soft cone has been a good buy, but I bought a size too big so I've sewn studs on it to make it more snug.


I'm glad he's been a good boy.
Bobby settles well in his crate, the joys of a dog crate-trained by his breeder! He's very calm but on 3 doses of Gabapentin a day untl tomorrow then 2 doses. It could change! He comes out for cuddles and excercises plus toilet breaks, he's so good.I'm sleeping downstairs with him tonight as OH isn't here to carry him upstairs.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Just wondering how Timber and Bobby are doing? Hope recovery is going well for both of them.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Timber is doing OK thank you. He lost his soft cone privileges because he managed to wedge himself against something and twist further, and he had half of his dressing off in the blink of an eye. So back to the plastic cone of shame. He doesn't seem to mind though.

We went for a vet appointment yesterday but he didn't get his stitches out as expected - it was like the vet didn't know why we were there. She asked "how has he been, is he eating and toileting well" etc. and _I_ had to say to _her_ that at 2 weeks after surgery maybe they should be out. She said oh yes, she would do that. But she didn't have a nurse to hold him and as you can imagine, it was impossible. So we have another appointment for Friday.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Just wondering how Timber and Bobby are doing? Hope recovery is going well for both of them.


Bobby is doing well thanks! He's becoming more demanding, doesn't want to be in his crate so much but seems to be pain free. Today is his frst day off Gabapentin altogether, just Loxicom in the mornng, and tomorrow he has a follow up appointment with his surgeon. And his beloved Daddy will be home tonight!
It's been quite hard work on my own , of course Reena is demanding of her share of attention.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Pleased to read both Timber and Bobby are doing well


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Glad to hear they're both doing well


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> Timber is doing OK thank you. He lost his soft cone privileges because he managed to wedge himself against something and twist further, and he had half of his dressing off in the blink of an eye. So back to the plastic cone of shame. He doesn't seem to mind though.
> 
> We went for a vet appointment yesterday but he didn't get his stitches out as expected - it was like the vet didn't know why we were there. She asked "how has he been, is he eating and toileting well" etc. and _I_ had to say to _her_ that at 2 weeks after surgery maybe they should be out. She said oh yes, she would do that. But she didn't have a nurse to hold him and as you can imagine, it was impossible. So we have another appointment for Friday.


Good to hear he's healing and I hope the vet appointment is easier on Friday for you both.


SusieRainbow said:


> Bobby is doing well thanks! He's becoming more demanding, doesn't want to be in his crate so much but seems to be pain free. Today is his frst day off Gabapentin altogether, just Loxicom in the mornng, and tomorrow he has a follow up appointment with his surgeon. And his beloved Daddy will be home tonight!
> It's been quite hard work on my own , of course Reena is demanding of her share of attention.


Good to hear Bobby is feeling better, I hope the appointment goes well and he doesn't get too excited when Daddy comes home


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

The stitches are out; and happily, he doesn’t seem to be interested in the scar site at all, so soft inflatable collar privileges have been restored.

We have friends coming for supper tonight (per Scottish Government guidelines, we have all done lateral flow tests today and are all negative) so keeping him quiet and not excited to see them might be challenging but a plastic snake with Lily’s Kitchen Christmas Dinner is in the freezer and should help.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm glad to hear things are going well. Is he weight bearing now?

Hope you have a nice evening with your friends.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Not weight bearing yet but the vet says he has been off it for so long it could be a confidence thing. It just needs time.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Good news I hope he continues to get better. Enjoy your supper tonight, and Timber enjoys his snake yum


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Great news. Hope he enjoys his Christmas dinner and soon tests a little weight bearing.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

So last night I had a dream that T had tried to do the stairs - strictly not allowed. I told Mr F about it when I woke up.

Later he said ‘I’ve screwed up’ - I immediately thought he had let Timber out and he had done the steps in the garden, so was really relieved when he said it was that he had been planning to surprise me with a ring but had lost the size. I told him how relieved I was that it was just that.

10 minutes later, I heard T fussing at the bottom of our flight of stairs. I looked down and not only had Mr F left the living room door open, he had forgotten to put the barrier across the foot of the stairs so T was on the point of coming up. I rushed down in time to stop him. But that was after two conversations about that exact same thing, just earlier this morning.

I feel like I can’t take my eye off the ball for a second. It’s exhausting.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> So last night I had a dream that T had tried to do the stairs - strictly not allowed. I told Mr F about it when I woke up.
> 
> Later he said 'I've screwed up' - I immediately thought he had let Timber out and he had done the steps in the garden, so was really relieved when he said it was that he had been planning to surprise me with a ring but had lost the size. I told him how relieved I was that it was just that.
> 
> ...


Yes it is exhausting but hang on in there as it will get easier as time goes by. It's a delight this time of the year having to take them out on the lead to toilet isn't it, especially last thing at night and first thing in the morning?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

It is indeed @Twiggy! And, just to add to it, he has now decided licking his scar site is the best thing ever. So back to the plastic cone for a few more days.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> I feel like I can't take my eye off the ball for a second. It's exhausting.


Oh my, I know *that* feelng! Bobby is desperate to go upstairs, specially if OH is up there, and to jump up onto the sofa back near the window. In some ways it's easier on my own as I don't have to watch what OH s doing as well as Bobby. OH is very prone to leaving doors open, I have to follow him round shutting them behind hm!:Banghead


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

SusieRainbow said:


> don't have to watch what OH s doing as well as Bobby.


Exactly!



SusieRainbow said:


> OH is very prone to leaving doors open,


I probably mentioned, that's exactly why I taught Timber to shut doors! It was a lot easier than teaching Mr F, who of course has never properly picked it up!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I probably mentioned, that's exactly why I taught Timber to shut doors! It was a lot easier than teaching Mr F, who of course has never properly picked it up!


Bobby's quite good at prising doors open with his nose, not got the hang of closing them.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

JoanneF said:


> I feel like I can't take my eye off the ball for a second. It's exhausting.


Rehab really is exhausting. I remember when I helped a friend where her lab had a double cruciate op. They had a good few dogs at the time and a few of us took shifts going over to look after them when she was at work. He had to be crated 24/7 (and he was a young bouncy labrador) apart from toilet trips where we had a harness to hold his back end up, and had to navigate the steps to the garden (and the other dogs!) We had so many enrichment things ready for him it was ridiculous. And then when he was allowed a bit more time out of the crate we had to be even more careful because of him wanting to run around with the others (although we did separate then younger ones so he could only go out with the older plodders) and the feeling of freedom he had made him want to run about like a nutter! It really is exhausting!
When Fly sliced his foot the other month he had to have his cone on or he would go to lick the wound at every opportunity. And he had to have his drip bag over the foot when we went outside to keep it dry, and it had to be a short toilet trip. 2 weeks of a lurcher not being allowed to 'lurch' wasn't much fun! He did launch himself over the dog gate at one point, luckily not doing any harm. So stressful!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm just so glad there are people here I can rant to, who understand!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> It is indeed @Twiggy! And, just to add to it, he has now decided licking his scar site is the best thing ever. So back to the plastic cone for a few more days.


Oh no....!!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

From Tuesday Timber is supposed to be allowed several five minute walks on lead. That will be four weeks after the surgery.

But. He still isn’t bearing weight on the leg. I may phone the vet tomorrow to see if they think we need to delay it, unless anyone here has ideas about whether we should or shouldn’t wait?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> From Tuesday Timber is supposed to be allowed several five minute walks on lead. That will be four weeks after the surgery.
> 
> But. He still isn't bearing weight on the leg. I may phone the vet tomorrow to see if they think we need to delay it, unless anyone here has ideas about whether we should or shouldn't wait?


Yes I'd phone your vet for advice, although hopefully you will find that once you start the lead walking he will begin to tentatively begin weight bearing. Once I'd been given the OK by my vet I used to watch Barley like a hawk and adjust my pace so had she to put her foot down.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you again @Twiggy .


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> From Tuesday Timber is supposed to be allowed several five minute walks on lead. That will be four weeks after the surgery.
> 
> But. He still isn't bearing weight on the leg. I may phone the vet tomorrow to see if they think we need to delay it, unless anyone here has ideas about whether we should or shouldn't wait?


Bless him. I hope Timber starts weight bearing soon. 
I have no knowledge or experience in this kind of issue, but just a thought to maybe ask the vet, I was wondering if exercising in water or using some sort of weight bearing sling to give him more confidence? Help him learn its OK to use the leg, without him having to put his full weight through it? If you get what I mean?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

ForestWomble said:


> Bless him. I hope Timber starts weight bearing soon.
> I have no knowledge or experience in this kind of issue, but just a thought to maybe ask the vet, I was wondering if exercising in water or using some sort of weight bearing sling to give him more confidence? Help him learn its OK to use the leg, without him having to put his full weight through it? If you get what I mean?


I took Barley for water treadmill treatment once my vet had given permission but think it was about week 6 or 7 after the operation.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I absolutely get what you mean @ForestWomble . We are actually waiting for hydrotherapy appointments, that has reminded me to chase them up. They said he could start when his wound was healed, but they preferred it to be after four weeks - so that is very soon.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> From Tuesday Timber is supposed to be allowed several five minute walks on lead. That will be four weeks after the surgery.
> 
> But. He still isn't bearing weight on the leg. I may phone the vet tomorrow to see if they think we need to delay it, unless anyone here has ideas about whether we should or shouldn't wait?


I remember thinking that Alfie wouldn't be able to do his walks because he was only tentatively toe touching, however, once allowed out, I had trouble keeping him from pulling and had to resort to a Halti on our first few walks.
The gait will look very wrong for a while and in Alfie's case, the leg was bowed for weeks before it straightened


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I had a chat with the vet. Apparently small dogs are particularly good at getting around on three legs, so in Timber's mind, he probably doesn't see the point in using his fourth _in case_ it hurts. So, she is keen that we do start the light exercise.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> I had a chat with the vet. Apparently small dogs are particularly good at getting around on three legs, so in Timber's mind, he probably doesn't see the point in using his fourth _in case_ it hurts. So, she is keen that we do start the light exercise.


I hope Timber starts using his leg soon.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> I had a chat with the vet. Apparently small dogs are particularly good at getting around on three legs, so in Timber's mind, he probably doesn't see the point in using his fourth _in case_ it hurts. So, she is keen that we do start the light exercise.


That's what they said to my neighbour too.
Their westie took a while to use the leg again (the first time round, second leg she was much quicker to start using). It was months before she was walking on it properly.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Breakthrough!

Today we walked several paces with the foot on the ground.

It feels like Christmas has come all over again!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fantastic news!


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

Wonderful news! Well done Timber.x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well done Timber! 
Onward and upward!


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Way to go Timber!


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

What a relief and a lovely start for the New Year!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Breakthrough!
> 
> Today we walked several paces with the foot on the ground.
> 
> It feels like Christmas has come all over again!


Oh that's brilliant news - well done.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

What a wonderful start to the New Year.Well done little Timber.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Brilliant! Hopefully once he realises it doesn't hurt to do it he will do it more!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Great news


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I've just been out with him (on lead) and he wanted to do zoomies. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I’m sort of using this as a log now, so today’s progress is that his leg strength has improved enough for him to stand on it quite steady while he raised the good leg to wee, several times. So that’s good progress.

And I just had a call from the facility where they do the hydrotherapy, they can take him on Monday! I’m really pleased because I’m hoping that will improve his muscle tone and strength a lot.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> I'm sort of using this as a log now, so today's progress is that his leg strength has improved enough for him to stand on it quite steady while he raised the good leg to wee, several times. So that's good progress.
> 
> And I just had a call from the facility where they do the hydrotherapy, they can take him on Monday! I'm really pleased because I'm hoping that will improve his muscle tone and strength a lot.


Good news


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Brilliant, bless him.Maci says to remind Timber to pack an after swim snack in his swim bag,along with all of the other swimming essentials.Maci wouldn't have liked the dryer,so he used to take a towel and some extra absorbent kitchen roll,a drying coat and a slightly larger travel harness to fit over said drying coat.He was only ever showered in clear water after his swims,he thought the scented shampoos on offer would damage his street cred :Hilarious.Hooe it goes well.
How often will he be going?I'm sure you'll soon see the benefits of it.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fantastic news.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Silverpaw said:


> Brilliant, bless him.Maci says to remind Timber to pack an after swim snack in his swim bag,along with all of the other swimming essentials.Maci wouldn't have liked the dryer,so he used to take a towel and some extra absorbent kitchen roll,a drying coat and a slightly larger travel harness to fit over said drying coat.He was only ever showered in clear water after his swims,he thought the scented shampoos on offer would damage his street cred :Hilarious.Hooe it goes well.
> How often will he be going?I'm sure you'll soon see the benefits of it.


That's great advice, thank you. I was hoping they would email me with information on what to take, but not so far so I really appreciate your reply. They haven't decided yet how often or how long he will need it, they are going to do a gait analysis when they see him and discuss it with me. They even have an offer on, the first two sessions are £22.50 or something like that - not that it matters, it's covered by his insurance, but it's less than I expected even if it's normally that price each time. So it will take us a long time for him to reach his £1000 complementary therapy limit and even if he did, it's still affordable.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> That's great advice, thank you. I was hoping they would email me with information on what to take, but not so far so I really appreciate your reply. They haven't decided yet how often or how long he will need it, they are going to do a gait analysis when they see him and discuss it with me. They even have an offer on, the first two sessions are £22.50 or something like that - not that it matters, it's covered by his insurance, but it's less than I expected even if it's normally that price each time. So it will take us a long time for him to reach his £1000 complementary therapy limit and even if he did, it's still affordable.


I remember the assessment that Maci had at his first session was very thorough.The time he had in the pool built up a bit from his initial swims,I think it's a case of what's right for each individual dog rather than longer is better,if that makes sense.I used to take some very small treats for him to have when he came into the side of the pool for a little breather in the sessions, to encourage him.He doesn't do toys, although there were lots on offer at the pool.He obviously couldn't eat much because of the risk of making him sick but a tiny treat helped.He very much appreciated treats when he got out and it helped make it a positive experience overall for him.
I always took his collar off,so that it wasn't soaking wet for him to travel home.
That sounds very reasonable.Maci had to stop having hydrotherapy some time ago but I think it was £30 a session for him.His physiotherapist is based at the hydrotherapy center,so he still goes there.I don't think he can still believe that he doesn't have to get wet!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Unfortunately I’m not allowed in with him, so I won’t be able to be there with treats. Or a camera, to share with you all


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> Unfortunately I'm not allowed in with him, so I won't be able to be there with treats. Or a camera, to share with you all


Oh,no, maybe things will change soon if the restrictions ease.
There's a glass panel in the side of the pool that Maci went to,so that the dogs movement under the water can be seen.It was great for photos/videos, aswell as for them to see what was going on beneath the surface.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Silverpaw said:


> Oh,no, maybe things will change soon if the restrictions ease.
> There's a glass panel in the side of the pool that Maci went to,so that the dogs movement under the water can be seen.It was great for photos/videos, aswell as for them to see what was going on beneath the surface.


Oh, I'll keep my fingers crossed!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Unfortunately I'm not allowed in with him, so I won't be able to be there with treats. Or a camera, to share with you all


That's a shame. Fingers crossed Timber likes it. Over the years some of my collies have loved it, others tolerated it and some really disliked it.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Twiggy said:


> Fingers crossed Timber likes it


I'm not really expecting him to. He isn't keen on water. But it isn't deep, he will be using an underwater treadmill and it will be warm at least!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> I'm not really expecting him to. He isn't keen on water. But it isn't deep, he will be using an underwater treadmill and it will be warm at least!


Both Holly and Tremor hated hydrotherapy pools but both are fine with the water treadmill. Let's hope Timber is.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> I'm not really expecting him to. He isn't keen on water. But it isn't deep, he will be using an underwater treadmill and it will be warm at least!


We started Maci off in the underwater treadmill because he literally used to freak out at the sight of water.The people at the centre were so good with him that he was soon able to progress to the pool.He would never have chosen to get in but he took it in his stride.The positive attention he got there,and treats,made it a positive experience overall for him.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Good luck with little Timber's water therapy today.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Silverpaw said:


> Good luck with little Timber's water therapy today.


Yes hope it goes well. Please let us know?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you! I absolutely will report back later.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JoanneF said:


> Thank you! I absolutely will report back later.


He will hate the first session. Even my water loving Goldens have hated their first sessions.
It's if it does good that's important!  Fingers crossed it will


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I have a very tired boy, she said he did really well. He used the treadmill with no water to start, then with water. His range of movement increased, and he didn't even mind the dryer apparently. They were very good with him, said they always work at his pace with plenty of breaks and treats and toys.

But a really funny thing happened on our way in. I'd parked the car in what I thought was their car park, gone to the door and found they were still closed for lunch, and that they had another car park which I checked out on foot. I went back for my car, moved it to the correct car park and went to wait at the door. So, what is relevant is that T had been to the building three times by this stage. Another lady waiting said they were still shut, but '_the vet had taken her cat in to get it away from the traffic_'. As soon as T heard the word 'vet' his demeanour changed completely - tail tucked, ears back and pulling to get away. I never knew he recognised that word.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

So glad he did well and that's crazy about recognizing the word vet!


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Brilliant, bless him,you must be very relieved.
It's amazing how much they understand,I think the 'V' word is pretty near the top of the list of things to avoid for a lot of them.Maci's had his claws cut by a nurse at the vets today.He used to take it in his stride but he gets nervous now that he's older.He's impressed to hear that Timber braved the dryer .


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> I have a very tired boy, she said he did really well. He used the treadmill with no water to start, then with water. His range of movement increased, and he didn't even mind the dryer apparently. They were very good with him, said they always work at his pace with plenty of breaks and treats and toys.
> 
> But a really funny thing happened on our way in. I'd parked the car in what I thought was their car park, gone to the door and found they were still closed for lunch, and that they had another car park which I checked out on foot. I went back for my car, moved it to the correct car park and went to wait at the door. So, what is relevant is that T had been to the building three times by this stage. Another lady waiting said they were still shut, but '_the vet had taken her cat in to get it away from the traffic_'. As soon as T heard the word 'vet' his demeanour changed completely - tail tucked, ears back and pulling to get away. I never knew he recognised that word.


Oh well done Timber. So pleased for you both.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

And here is the evidence


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Just been catching up with this.

Well done, Timber. Good boy, braving the dryer too.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Way to go Timber boy! 

He looks so cute in his little lifejacket too


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

That face doesn't look too distressed, but you know him better than me?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> That face doesn't look too distressed, but you know him better than me?


I think he looks ok, if he was distressed believe me he would show it! While we were having the consultation to get all the details before we started, he was really not happy - that probably felt more like a normal vet visit - and he was glued to me. But in the photos, the tail is up, the ears are forward and he seems pretty settled.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Update (partly for my own benefit to track progress).

For the first week of walking, T was quite slow. His strength has improved a lot, now that he is walking for 10 minutes, he is faster and so he is covering a good bit more than twice the distance he did on his 5 minute walks. I’ve had to keep him in a walking gait though, anything faster and he reverts to three legs. Today, for just a few paces, he put his bad leg down in a canter gait.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Update (partly for my own benefit to track progress).
> 
> For the first week of walking, T was quite slow. His strength has improved a lot, now that he is walking for 10 minutes, he is faster and so he is covering a good bit more than twice the distance he did on his 5 minute walks. I've had to keep him in a walking gait though, anything faster and he reverts to three legs. Today, for just a few paces, he put his bad leg down in a canter gait.


Oh that's great news. It's surprising how quickly you get an expert in judging their gait isn't it....LOL


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Twiggy said:


> Oh that's great news. It's surprising how quickly you get an expert in judging their gait isn't it....LOL


Definitely. I see him not stepping quite so far forward with it when he starts getting tired.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Another milestone week.

He had his eight week post-op x-rays on Tuesday, and the vet is pleased with his progress so today, we had five minutes off lead at the end of his short walk. That's the first time he has been off lead since October.

He has also this week started putting the foot down when he is in his 'cantering' gait (do they call it that in dogs???) where before, I had to keep him in a walk to make sure he used it. It was just a couple of steps to begin with, then about 150 yards - I don't exactly have to run fast to keep up with him, he just has little legs! And he was using it off lead today too. He will still lift it and just use the good one, but he seems to have learned 'paw down' from when I've slowed him in walk, so that's enough to encourage him to use it.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fantastic news! onward and upward.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JoanneF said:


> Another milestone week.
> 
> He had his four week post-op x-rays on Tuesday, and the vet is pleased with his progress so today, we had five minutes off lead at the end of his short walk. That's the first time he has been off lead since October.
> 
> He has also this week started putting the foot down when he is in his 'cantering' gait (do they call it that in dogs???) where before, I had to keep him in a walk to make sure he used it. It was just a couple of steps to begin with, then about 150 yards - I don't exactly have to run fast to keep up with him, he just has little legs! And he was using it off lead today too. He will still lift it and just use the good one, but he seems to have learned 'paw down' from when I've slowed him in walk, so that's enough to encourage him to use it.


Good news...!! Timber is doing well (and you of course).


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Such great news, so glad that he's doing so well.

Love the pics of him in his little life jacket :Happy:Kiss


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nearly there


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

We reached another milestone today. We had a proper 25 minute walk, his first ”real” walk without the buggy, with about 10 minutes off lead. And he was happier than I've seen him for ages. 

He genuinely looked like he was having a lot of fun, he has now emptied half the toys out of his toy box and has been wrestling with squeaky squirrel.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh Timber great news! Lovely to hear him doing so well


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I might try to get some video tomorrow


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Brilliant news  Keep on going Timber lad.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

What a relief it must be to see him back to his old self. Well done Timber and well done you!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

So very happy to hear he's perked up and is getting back to his normal self.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm not sure why these haven't shared in the normal way, but a couple of short videos of Timber walking. You can tell me he has been a complete fraud and there's nothing wrong with him if you wish!

https://youtube.com/shorts/ldSz8shDboo?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/IxzvetoFbuE?feature=share


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh wow he looks terrific! What an excellent outcome!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

They aren't the best videos, but you have no idea what a relief it is to see him getting back to normal. He uses the leg more often than not now, and it's only a little over a month that he has been using it at all. We aren't there yet, he isn't quite as free-moving as he could be, but we still have 9 more hydrotherapy sessions, and he is getting stronger all the time.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

He looks so happy!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> I'm not sure why these haven't shared in the normal way, but a couple of short videos of Timber walking. You can tell me he has been a complete fraud and there's nothing wrong with him if you wish!
> 
> https://youtube.com/shorts/ldSz8shDboo?feature=share
> 
> https://youtube.com/shorts/IxzvetoFbuE?feature=share


I shed a little happy tear at those videos. He looks so happy


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

ForestWomble said:


> I shed a little happy tear at those videos. He looks so happy


Aw, thank you! I wish I'd taken some video yesterday, he was so clearly enjoying his little bit of freedom!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)




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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Such a happy boy! He looks like he's back to his normal self!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> Such a happy boy! He looks like he's back to his normal self!


And a happy me!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

He's coming on in leaps and bounds now! Literally


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

You can see a little nervousness in the video above when the spaniel surprises him. He has been a wee bit antsy around other dogs now he is out of his buggy, but we are working on it.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Almost there, just the odd skip and a little stiffness 

You are brave letting him twist like that!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

rona said:


> Almost there, just the odd skip and a little stiffness
> 
> You are brave letting him twist like that!


With the spaniel? I wasn't expecting that!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Yup, almost there. WTG Timber.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

It must be such a relief to see him pretty much back to normal.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

He looks great!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I am nervous when he runs fast, I kind of wish his recall wasn’t quite so sharp! Am I the only person ever to wish that?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

This thread started on the 22nd of October when Timber had his accident. Today, 23rd February, four months and a day later, he had his final sign off appointment with the vet. She is really pleased with him, he is showing no discernible stiffness in the leg, his range of movement is virtually back to normal, as is his muscle tone; however he has six more hydrotherapy sessions planned so these should take care of any remaining weakness. It has been a long haul, but we can now treat him as a normal dog.

Can I just thank everyone again for all your support and good wishes through these last few months. It has helped me so much. Thank you all.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> This thread started on the 22nd of October when Timber had his accident. Today, 23rd February, four months and a day later, he had his final sign off appointment with the vet. She is really pleased with him, he is showing no discernible stiffness in the leg, his range of movement is virtually back to normal, as is his muscle tone; however he has six more hydrotherapy sessions planned so these should take care of any remaining weakness. It has been a long haul, but we can now treat him as a normal dog.
> 
> Can I just thank everyone again for all your support and good wishes through these last few months. It has helped me so much. Thank you all.


That's great news! What a relief for you all.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Brilliant news.Maci hopes Timber will still enjoy the occasional stroller ride,just to keep his 'paw in' .


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Silverpaw said:


> Brilliant news.Maci hopes Timber will still enjoy the occasional stroller ride,just to keep his 'paw in' .


The stroller is cleaned and packed away - maybe in the future, but for now he is loving his walking!


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

JoanneF said:


> The stroller is cleaned and packed away - maybe in the future, but for now he is loving his walking!


Great, bless him.Hope he doesn't need it for a long long time.If I can find a way to turn the clock back, I'll pack Maci's away (and I'll be a bit more youthful too :Hilarious).So pleased that little Timber has done so well, well done to you all .


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I am so happy for you! 

Bungo wants to know what to bring to the party?


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## LittleFox (12 mo ago)

That's such great news. 7 weeks until Elliot's!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

ForestWomble said:


> I am so happy for you!
> 
> Bungo wants to know what to bring to the party?


Timber says he's fine but his hoomum needs a lot of sleep to make up for the worry, if Bungo can send lots of Horlicks.


LittleFox said:


> 7 weeks until Elliot's!


We will be thinking of you. I nearly said 'at every step of the way' but that would have been very inappropriate.


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## LittleFox (12 mo ago)

JoanneF said:


> We will be thinking of you. I nearly said 'at every step of the way' but that would have been very inappropriate.


Oh the irony :Hilarious

I think I need to buy another crate, which is a pain. I'll set up his big wire one in the spare room where the dogs always go when I'm out, but need one beside my bed too. I could move his car crate inside, but don't fancy taking it in and out to the car all the time. Sigh.


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