# Help! Queen with flat nipples



## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Hi all.

Posted on behalf of a breeder. Queen given birth to 7 kittens, having problems feeding due to flat nipples, any advice you could would appreciated and I'll pass your advice onto the breeder.

Many thanks in advance.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Anybody????

BTW it's not BYB. 

Thought I'd just post on there behalf


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

cosmills has this problem with back 2 teats,kittens were unable to feed from them but other nipples were ok.

She could try stimulate them try to get them to protrude more.Try hold kittens to them.If she has no joy she could try find a foster mum,or bottle feed.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks Hun. I'll let her know. xxx 

How are you anyway?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

PetloverJo said:


> Thanks Hun. I'll let her know. xxx
> 
> How are you anyway?


good thanx.

Iv not had this problem myself so others may know more but from what i remember cosmill couldnt get kits to suckle from flat teats and therefor the milk backed up and cat needed antibiotics as they become hardandred so maybe worth keeping an eye on her.

Id try get a bit of milk onto the teats then the kits will smell where dinner should be and try suckle,im not sure if they will beable to feed from her if they are really flat though,but it may be that its her 1st litter and queen has small nipples that need working a little.Must be a worry for the breeder.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sorry never had this problem, I wonder if the kittens trying to suckle would help,i just googled this and someone said they bought a nipple puller?[but this was in Australia, don't know what you get here,
Maybe get prepared to hand rear, with a syringe or eye dropper,
I have noticed that when my kittens go back to mum after really having finished nursing off her, they still seem to be able to suckle when the teats have gone flat
All I can say really is ring the vet for advice
I hope the kittens are ok poor little things,


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Sorry never had this problem, I wonder if the kittens trying to suckle would help,i just googled this and someone said they bought a nipple puller?[but this was in Australia, don't know what you get here,
> Maybe get prepared to hand rear, with a syringe or eye dropper,
> I have noticed that when my kittens go back to mum after really having finished nursing off her, they still seem to be able to suckle when the teats have gone flat
> All I can say really is ring the vet for advice
> I hope the kittens are ok poor little things,


eye dropper sounds a good idea to stimulate them a little and get them erect,firm but gentle don want to make them sore or cracked.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry am here lol

Busy busy busy 


Yes Rosie had the same problem in her lower teats ... They were ok for the first 24hrs .. I tried putting the biggest suckers to them but to no avail you name it I tried it .... In the end Rosie got mastitis due to the backup 

How many flat nips does the queen have ?..

She could try a warm heat compress to try and get the milk and blood to them


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks passed your comments onto them.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Cat is a first time queen, they have not experienced this before either.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

She is currently hand feeding every 2 hours. All the nipples are flat  7 hungry MC's to feed.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

With two out of action I had to keep moving the kits about as three of them liked the same one lol ... So if she has a few working , it may be the case of swopping them about and topping up ... Pleased to say they all have done very well


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> She is currently hand feeding every 2 hours. All the nipples are flat  7 hungry MC's to feed.


OMG ... Was they ok to start with ... How old are the kits Jo


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

PetloverJo said:


> Cat is a first time queen, they have not experienced this before either.


They are a day old, hopefully milk maybe slow coming, with her being a first time mum, breeder is worried, but kits maintaining weight.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Rosie was a first time mum her milk came in straight away , Can she get milk from them ... If not warm towel over mum for as long as she will let her .. 

If you can get a pic it would be useful


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Feel for breeder if having to hand rear 7 kits,id tell her to try find a foster mum cat if she cant get them to suckle from mum,iv got a cat due any day but that will prob be too late for the kittens,also my girl is a first time mum so not sure yet if she will be any good at it.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Feel for breeder if having to hand rear 7 kits,id tell her to try find a foster mum cat if she cant get them to suckle from mum,iv got a cat due any day but that will prob be too late for the kittens,also my girl is a first time mum so not sure yet if she will be any good at it.


I want your energy, a new baby, 4 other youngsters and a cat just about to kitten, girl, you need a medal. xxxxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

PetloverJo said:


> I want your energy, a new baby, 4 other youngsters and a cat just about to kitten, girl, you need a medal. xxxxx


lol probably want my head looking at jo


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

A vet suggested to use a straw to "suck" the teats out. I've never had to try it and even though it sounds weird it might be worth a try.

Using massage and trying to get some milk out might help as well.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry i havent had time to read all of the posts but have read the basics of the first post.

Ok, kittens suckling will make a difference and bring the milk in, what the breeder needs to try is gently roll the teats between 2 fingers to make then stick out more then latch a strong sucking kitten onto the teat to get the milk flowing, once milk is flowing kittens will get a good feed.
This is going to have to be done each time.

Are all teats flat?

Failing everything else, i know im far away but i have a foster queen available if the breeder cant find one nearer home or cant hand rear. 

Hope all goes well.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> I want your energy, a new baby, 4 other youngsters and a cat just about to kitten, girl, you need a medal. xxxxx


didn't you know she is superwomen .. amazing is our sara..


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Cerridwen said:


> A vet suggested to use a straw to "suck" the teats out. I've never had to try it and even though it sounds weird it might be worth a try.
> 
> Using massage and trying to get some milk out might help as well.


also a wide nozzle syringe .. but gentle as it can cause blood blisters


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> didn't you know she is superwomen .. amazing is our sara..


:blush: awwww


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Might be a Coonie thing? Most of the MC breeders I know have girls who's milk doesn't come in for a day or two, then everything is fine.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Might be a Coonie thing? Most of the MC breeders I know have girls who's milk doesn't come in for a day or two, then everything is fine.


Hopefully this is the case, she has not experienced this with her other 2 queens.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

All queens are different, my queen on her first litter was great, sadly her 2nd litter of 6 kittens despite best efforts her milk dried up so i had to use her sister, luckily they gave birth within 2 days of each other so i had back up.

I would put an urgent appeal out everywhere you can, ask on mainecoon cat club and mainecoon cat forum aswell, lets hope somebody nearer has a queen.

I would still gently roll to get teats up then place a kitten to get the milk going.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

We had a similar problem with Pickle, only two of her nipples ever really came up and that took quite a bit of stimulation to even get them going. The rest of them just didn't do anything and were not even pink. Also her milk didn't really start to flow properly until day 4 so first few days were worrying. Once it started though it was fine (she still lets Crumble feed now at almost 6 months). In the early couple of days I kept putting the biggest kitten, womble on to get the milk going and then swapped kittens round. It did work out and we ended up with three healthy babies but it is difficult and I did give additional feeds until I was sure she was producing enough milk to sustain them and as CC every queen is different and every litter can be different too.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Thank you all I have copy and pasted all your advice to her. She is very grateful. I will try to keep you informed on how things are going.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

I heard from breeder yesterday, queen and kittens had been taken to the vets as queen no longer had any interest in her kittens  . They were given even more hand rearing stuff. Vet recommended that the queen gets spayed. 

Hopefully kittens will be fostered by a friends cat who had given birth to one kitten.Keeping our fingers crossed that they will all make it.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hopefully all goes well for the kittens.
Not sure i understand why the queen would need spaying, i had a queen first time she was just overwhelmed by all the squeaks of kittens and she worried herself, 2nd litter was perfect and she was a great mum.

So unless there is a medical reason to spay, i personally would try and have 2 queens give birth the same time if the breeder can so she already then has a foster mummy if this happens again.

Vets are too quick to spay, but thats just my own personally feelings.

Good luck and please keep us updated. xx


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

When I saw the title of your thread I thought "That's a rather personal comment about Her Majesty", but having read your post, I wonder if perhaps gently massaging the teats and drawing them out before a feed might help?

I'm not sure what you might uses as a massage oil, as even extra virgin olive oil might upset little tummies, though you could rub her belyl down after massaging and before adding kittens, so that there would be barely a trace there.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Not sure i understand why the queen would need spaying


A vet who knows very little about breeding I suspect, I'd try her again and mate with another girl as back up as CC said.

I had a girl who's first litter ended in tragedy due to the queen, her second litter was perfect. I mated her close to another girl just in case though.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree it's not time to spay yet, but only if she is prepared for the same thing to happen next time.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

If I had a queen who (I hadn't checked or noticed prior to mating) had nipples that were too flat to feed kittens effectively AND who had lost interest in feeding her kittens at a very young age, I would almost certainly spay her. Are those traits anyone really wants to run the risk of perpetuating?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Feel the no-spay thinking runs that she might well have interest next time around. There was no way I could predict Lola's post-birth nipples from her pre-mating ones - they were really tiny, flat and white, like all my neuter cats have.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

I have some sad news, 4 of the 7 kittens have died. The other 3 are doing well and gaining weight.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh, no, how is the mum coping now,is she managing to feed at all, or still being handfed? so sorry about the 4 which have died RIP babies


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Hand feeding. She has been back to the vets with the queen an kittens. Saw another vet this time that diagnosed mastitis, queen now on antibiotics. This vet thinks this was why she abandoned kits in first place. She is very saddened by all this. Vet seems to think that the four that died may have also tried feeding off mum and it was the mastitis that caused their death.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

How sad, poor girl, and kittens, not forgetting the owner, always sad to lose kittens


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RI Tiny Babies xxxx

This is so sad, paws crossed the other tiny babies make it.


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