# Help with water parameters please



## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hi, first of all I don't know if this is the right forum (sorry if it isn't, please advise me if not) 

I have a rekord 700 tank with a built in filter and heater (70litres)

I've had fish in my tank for exactly two months today, when I got the tank I didn't really understand anything about fish parameters and put fish in my tank just a week after! So naturally I had an ammonia problem, I asked the pet shop what to do and they suggest water changes with a gravel cleaner, I bought my own test strips so I could test the water myself.

I learnt all about the colours and numbers in an attempt to save my fish (sadly one fish died  but the others didn't show any signs of stress or anything - the pet shop said he might have just been weak , is this true? He was a Molly)

Anyway I tested the water this morning with my king British test strips and these were the results:

Ammonia - 0 
PH - 7.2
KH - 100 
GH - 250 
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - 0 

Temperature - 25-26 degrees C

Should the Nitrate be 0 as well? 

People talk about ppm but it says on the strips mg/l? Is this the same?

A bit of algae has started to grow as well, is this to do with the nitrate? I keep the light on for twelve hours a day, I turn it on at 8am and turn it off at 8pm everyday.

I know the test strips are not that reliable so I will ask the shop to test my water today.

But as a rough guide do you think these parameters are okay? I don't want my fish to be stressed! 

When I started to do the water changes I changed about 10 litres twice a week, when the ammonia started to go down I started to change 10 litres once a week (I have a 10 litre bucket) I use Aquasafe as a conditioner, I also have tetra easy balance but I'm not entirely sure what that does.

I've been doing this for about 6 weeks in total.

As for fish I have 2 mollies and 6 tetras. 

There are mixed opinions on the mollies because some people say that mollies should be in a bigger tank but I've seen other people keep them in a 10 gallon, but anyway this isn't what I'm asking, my main priority was getting the ammonia down. 

I'm considering getting a bigger tank now I almost understand the water quality! It's just finding a place to put it! 

Just another question: I bought tetra safe start but didn't use it in the end, is this something you would have recommended using? I was worried it might harm the fish because people seemed to be using it in a fishless cycle.


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

Hi there!

Ok, lets have a look here. I will try and address each point/question, but if i miss something i do apologise XD There are a lot of questions, which is no bad thing! 

The tank itself sounds fine. Nothing wrong with the setup from what i can see. Tank + filter + heater is pretty standard.

As for the fish, i see you fell into the "not doing a cycle" pit-trap". As you have already learned, this is not the way we normally recommend doing things, but it cant be helped, and you are far from alone in doing this, so dont worry about it. At 2 months, the cycle will almost certainly be complete by now, so you should be out of the danger zone. It is really impossible to say whether the molly that died was the result of the tank going through the cycle, or something else. He might have been a weak individual, he may have picked something up in the shop... we just dont know. If all the other fish are fine, and the death was a while ago, i wouldnt worry too much.

We normally recommend a drop test kit rather than the dip strips, as the latter tend to be very hard to read results off, and quite inaccurate. If the results you posted are correct, then again, nothing wrong at all. I would advise you not worry about PH, KH or GH in the future, unless you plan on keeping some highly fragile specialist species. Most commonly available tropical fish are able to live happily in a wide range of conditions. 

The important ones are Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Ammonia and Nitrate should always be at zero. These are highly toxic, and even small amounts can kill fish. Nitrate however, is virtually harmless, though it does act as a fertilizer for algae (which i will come to in a moment). The result of 10 for nitrate does make me raise an eyebrow though, as i would expect it to be higher. Most tapwater in the UK comes out of the tap with a nitrate level of 20-40ppm anyway, so i would expect your tank to have at least this level, if not 60-80ppm. Whatever the result is, no, it should not be zero. 20-60ppm would be about average. The temperature looks fine.

As for the PPM/mg/l thing, i suppose it really depends. Most fishkeepers i know work in PPM, so it may confuse people if you start using mg/l. Other than that, as long as you know where the danger levels lie on either scale, you should be fine.

Algae! Algae will grow naturally in the tank whether you like it or not! The best ways to limit it are to limit nitrate and lighting. You say you have the lights on 12 hours a day, but this is far too much! The fish do not need light, and the tank really only *needs* to be lit if you have live plants, and want to see the fish. I would recommend you only light the tank up during your peak viewing time, when you are around to enjoy it. No more than 6 hours a day. This will seriously limit the algae growth, but still allow for plants, and your own enjoyment. Also remember to change the bulbs every 6-9 months whether they still work or not. The gasses inside the bulb break down over time, and the spectrum produced by the bulb shifts subtly (humans cannot see the change) to favour algae over plants. Changing bulbs regularly also means less algae.

With water changes, i would recommend changing 20L or so once a week. Keep on using the aquasafe to get rid of the chlorine in the water, and leave the water to stand for 10-15 mins before putting it in the tank, to let it do its job (it does take time to work). The easy balance is supposed to add stuff to the water that keeps it fresh, and reduce the need for water changes. But tbh, i wouldnt use it. Its always best to stick to regular water changes.

Tetra safe start is a bacterial culture, for use in seeding the filter when you first start out. There is a lot of debate as to whether they are effective or not, but most people seem to find they work. I would probably have used it myself, as it is harmless to fish. But if you got the cycle to work without it (saw ammonia and nitrite production that tailed off), then that shows it worked without it (though it might have sped it up).

You seem to be learning well though, and generally moving in the right direction. Good luck to you, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

Thank you so much for all of your help  I had no idea that you don't have to keep the lights on all day! My uncle has a timer on his so he can balance it when he's not there. 

I asked the pet shop to test my water and she confirmed my readings, said the water is "perfect" this may have been an exaggeration but I was happy that my fish were no longer being poisoned by their own food and poop.

The easy balance stuff was just something that the "fish man" said I had to buy when I bought the tank, he didn't even tell me I needed Aqua safe! But anyway I learnt it all myself .
I clean the filter in the fish tank water during a water change, is this correct? I don't clean all of the sponges at the same time, I clean one one week and another the next and so on. I clean the white one more often though because it's always really dirty, the brown never actually comes off much, is this normal? How often do these need to be replaced?

Another question (sorry to be a pain) one of my penguin tetras has a bump on it's tummy, is it "pregnant" or is this some kind of disease?

This one is a bit smaller than the others as well if this makes a difference, I will try and post a photo.

Thank you for your help once again!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi Faye 

I wouldn't rely too much on pet shop tests, especially if they just tell you it's 'perfect' rather than giving you actual figures (not saying your water isn't perfect, it may well be, but I've had a pet shop staff member telling me my readings were 'not too bad' when in reality the ammonia levels were through the roof and my fish were dying!)

One of the best hobby test kits is the API master kit - it's around £20 from ebay or amazon, and contains all the tests you will need for a good couple of years, so is good value in the long run and much more reliable than the paper test strips 

Re cleaning the filter - so long as you are cleaning the sponges in old tank water, not in tap water, what you are doing is OK (never use untreated tap water on your filter media or anywhere in your tank as it will kill all the good bacteria!) but you probably don't need to be doing it as often as you do. My tank/filter is basically the same as yours (though the older model), and I alternate cleaning the sponges like you do, but only clean one sponge once a month - you don't actually want them to be too clean! The exception is the filter wool (the white pad) which needs cleaning weekly, as you say, and replacing approximately once a month when it starts to fall to pieces (they come in packs of 5 and are not expensive). If you use a carbon filter (the black sponge), this will also need regular replacing, but to be honest they're not that useful unless you're trying to remove meds or other chemicals from your tank - I've replaced mine with another of the standard green sponges, which are more beneficial 

Re the penguin tetra, it's hard to say without a photo - if you post one then hopefully someone can help


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hi  

Thank you for the advice! Something disastrous had happened! I added two more fish last Saturday and now all of the tetras (that had the bump) have now all got tiny white spots all over their bodies, I only noticed it today...I did a water change and left them a couple of hours and when I came back one of my tetras was dead! It was really sudden they were all swimming around fine, now I've looked carefully and my grey Molly seems really lethargic  I'm assuming the disease came from the new fish? 

I've looked into whitespot treatment, but I can only get this tomorrow morning at the earliest, is there anything I can do in the meantime or is the water change enough? I don't have a quarantine tank. 

Thank you for any help


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

The dreaded whitespot  Sorry to hear this. It's quite common in tanks that have or have had water quality issues (e.g. have been through a fish-in cycle), because the parasite can lie dormant until the fish's immunity is lowered by ammonia poisoning etc, and will then strike.

It is possible to treat whitespot without medication, but the treatment would then involve adding salt and increasing the heat, both of which would be stressful for your fish (the mollys would be fine with the salt, but the tetras would not like it). So in your case I'd suggest getting the meds as early as you can tomorrow.

If you have carbon in your filter, it's important that you remove it before adding the meds, as it will make the meds ineffective. eSHa Exit or Seachem ParaGuard would be my recommendation for which medication to use, if you can get hold of either of these, as they don't kill the good filter bacteria like some other brands do.

It's also important to follow the instructions on the meds thoroughly and complete the course - don't stop dosing it once the spots have disappeared, as this merely means that the parasite is free-swimming around your tank looking for another host!


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

Thank you again for replying so soon  I started out completely wrong with fish keeping! I should have researched everything. I won't be put off though, I will try and sort this as I sorted the ammonia  i got rid of one problem and now I have another! 

The rest of the fish are doing okay at the moment, I fed them and they have all eaten well (Tetramin flakes). I hope they all survive, the tetra that died was the smallest one. Hopefully when I get the medicine it will help, thank you for the brands!


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

NaomiM said:


> The dreaded whitespot  Sorry to hear this. It's quite common in tanks that have or have had water quality issues (e.g. have been through a fish-in cycle), because the parasite can lie dormant until the fish's immunity is lowered by ammonia poisoning etc, and will then strike.
> 
> It is possible to treat whitespot without medication, but the treatment would then involve adding salt and increasing the heat, both of which would be stressful for your fish (the mollys would be fine with the salt, but the tetras would not like it). So in your case I'd suggest getting the meds as early as you can tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Sorry for yet another message! I don't think I have carbon in my filter, how would I know?

Thanks, all fish are still alive!


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

I have bought the medicine and put the correct dosage in the tank, unfortunately I have had another tetra death since then  another is swimming backwards D: it seems to just be the tetras that it's affecting, the mollies are still acting normal, even the one that looked lethargic has perked up a bit! 

I'm guessing it will take a few days for the medicine to work properly, will having the carbon sponge out this long affect the tank?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry you're having losses  Whitespot is a nasty parasite so it's usual to lose a few. Hopefully the rest will survive.

The carbon sponge will be the black one if you have one. It's not really necessary in a tank unless you want to remove meds or chemicals from the water, so leaving it out won't be a problem. I've taken mine out permanently and replaced it with a normal green sponge, which is more beneficial - I just keep a carbon one in the cupboard in case I need it in the future


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

NaomiM said:


> Sorry you're having losses  Whitespot is a nasty parasite so it's usual to lose a few. Hopefully the rest will survive.
> 
> The carbon sponge will be the black one if you have one. It's not really necessary in a tank unless you want to remove meds or chemicals from the water, so leaving it out won't be a problem. I've taken mine out permanently and replaced it with a normal green sponge, which is more beneficial - I just keep a carbon one in the cupboard in case I need it in the future


I've lost another 2 tetras  it seems to be picking off the tetras one by one! None of the other fish are showing any signs of stress, they're carrying on as normal eating off the plants etc but they don't have as many white spots, just a few on their fins.

I understand that ich works in three stages and I'm probably in the second stage with the visible white spots.

Is there anything else I can do or will I have to just wait and see if the medicine works?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear this 

You could try feeding a crushed garlic clove, with its juices, as this is a natural immunity booster. Probably won't make much difference to any that are already really bad with it, but can't do any harm, and might help to protect the others a little. Other than that, I can't think of anything else you can do. Raising the temperature would speed up the parasite's cycle and get it to the next stage (where the meds make most difference) quicker, but as already mentioned, this will further stress the fish, so it's a bit of a catch-22.


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

Thank you, I will try that!

I thought I had lost 4 fish but thinking back I have only lost three, I can now only see one poor little tetra all on his own in the tank, the remaining two are nowhere to be found! Could they have been eaten by the bigger fish? I've honestly checked all of the plants, hiding places and even the filter, there were two that could be seen last night but this morning there is just the one! 

The last tetra seems to have less spots now and none of his fins look like they have been eaten (the others did) 

The spots seems to be slowly going, I think i will do another water change tonight and add another dose of medicine tomorrow evening as it'll be 4 days, I'll have a read of the leaflet to see if this is a good idea


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## Faye705 (Jul 22, 2015)

It's been 3 days and not a single white spot is in site  unfortunately 5 tetras died so I'm left with one hiding in the corner all day! He's eating well though so I'm glad about that! I found the "missing" tetras when I did a water change the next day, it was gross, they were practically rotting and half eaten the poor remaining tetra must be traumatised.

I'm definitely saving for a bigger tank (I'm an apprentice and my wages will go up when I'm properly employed which is exciting!) I'm going to keep my current tank as either a hospital tank or just have one pretty Betta, I bet the hospital tank is a better idea considering my previous mistakes haha! 

I've tested the water parameters again:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10 

I'll ask the pet shop again as well.

I replace 20litres of water once a week using a gravel cleaner.

I keep the light on now for about 6 hours a day, suddenly the amount algae has reduced! The fish ate it so I wasn't too fussed about it anyway.

Yeah so the remaining 5 fish are looking healthy, eating well, all of their fins are good with no tears, I thought the mollies might start to pick on the tetra now he's on his own but they haven't.

It annoys me that the people in the pet shop lie about the size of fish and their requirements, I watched them sell one of each different types of tetra to a little boy and his dad, they didn't even ask them if they already had fish / what size their tank was! I don't know why anyone would lie and risk an animal's wellbeing for a couple quid! Also their angel fish were swimming upside down and looked stressed in general, they were selling 1 foot long eels and said they only needed a 2 foot tank! Rant over, thanks for any help


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. Keep up with the meds though or the whitespot is likely to strike again with even more force! The parasites, having dropped off the fish, are now free swimming around your tank (though pretty much invisible to the naked eye) and are vulnerable to the meds now. The idea now is to kill them off before they attach to another host! So follow the instructions on the meds bottle re dosing and when to do water changes - most brands will tell you to keep up with the dosing for a set number of days after the spots fall off.

Once your tank has been disease free for a couple of weeks, you can start to think about getting some more friends for that lonely tetra


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