# Is felix a good food?



## Alicia2011 (Dec 27, 2011)

Is it a good food or not? I've heard bad things about it, but I've looked at the ingredients and can't really see anything really bad, but I don't really know much about cat food so I don't really know what are bad ingredients :lol:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Alicia2011 said:


> Is it a good food or not? I've heard bad things about it, but I've looked at the ingredients and can't really see anything really bad, but I don't really know much about cat food so I don't really know what are bad ingredients :lol:


Well, what are the ingredients?


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## Alicia2011 (Dec 27, 2011)

For the beef flavour: meat and animal derivaties (of which beef 4%) fish and fish derivatives, minerals and various sugars.
I didn't notice the percentage before, is it the low meat content why its bad?


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## Nicolajane (Jan 31, 2012)

Yep the low meat content means it's bulked up with things that cats wouldn't normally eat.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nicolajane said:


> Yep the low meat content means it's bulked up with things that cats wouldn't normally eat.


Such as? ...


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Alicia2011 said:


> For the beef flavour: meat and animal derivaties (of which beef 4%) fish and fish derivatives, minerals and various sugars.
> I didn't notice the percentage before, is it the low meat content why its bad?


A little 101 in cat food:

The "problem" with supermarket food is that you don't really know what you are feeding. Legally, any pet food manufacturer needs to declare on their labels the statutory minimum, which from a consumer's point of view is completely useless because these are: min 4% meat and animal derivatives of the flavour animal (the flavour meat being the protein source that gives the food the name: i.e Whiskas with Beef in jelly for example would need to contain at least 4% beef; the rest can be other meats), and some top-level heading of the other stuff they put in, such as minerals, vegetable derivatives, oils, sugar, additives etc. Labels can contain a lot more detail but they are at the discretion of the manufacturer (Please note that the labelling regulations are currently changing, allegedly making it easier for consumers to understand them).

Now, the food contains more than 4% of that flavour meat but unless the manufacturer divulges more info on the label, we don't know how much more and what other animal meats are being used. We also don't know how much of this is "real" meat and how much of this is offal or what is termed by-products or animal derivatives.

There is nothing wrong with the use of offal per se; they are a nutritious part of an animal, And if you think about it, a cat hunting prey would also consume things we wouldn't ordinarly eat ourselves. However, imo it is all about the proportions. And let's not forget offal is cheap; cheaper than meat and that is one way they keep costs to themselves down. What manufacturers use is, within certain guidelines, up to them. So, if you want to know what by-products a manufacturer uses either consult their website or ask them. If you are not happy with what they tell you, don't buy it.

For the wet food A-Z (http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/112132-z-wet-food-cats.html) I have tried to find out how much overall meat content there is and how much of that is meat vs offal. While most companies have played ball, the big guns, which also tend to be the ones most often found in supermarkets, are not willing to divulge that information.

So, supermarket foods aren't typically "good" foods because you don't know what they contain. Additionally, they tend to be the ones that are chunks in jelly/gravy, which means that not only will they need to use additives to keep the chunks in chunks but the meat chunks in a tin or pouch also compete with certain fillers - i.e. jelly or gravy. Proportionally these fillers tend to be quite high (well, jelly and gravy is cheaper than meat/offal etc) and are nutritionally questionable. If you can find food that is "pate" food (i.e. the consistency of chicken liver pate). Because of their consistency they need fewer fillers (jelly/gravy), which means that they tend to be higher in meat content.

Lastly, and perhaps for most surprisingly as people tend to associate supermarkets with "cheap" food, these cat foods often available in supermarkets also tend to be either just as pricey, or in some case, even more costly than other food that is better declared but that is only had over the internet.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Re the various sugars in that list:

Conventionally, "sugar" is often used to make the food smoother and shinier; ie. more presentable to humans. Cats don't really care. 

However, "sugar" is also often hidden or might be declared as a colouring, eg. "caramel" (makes the meat appear brown again and is often used for cooked beef, which turns grey and as such is deemed to be unappetising rolleyes:, not the cat of course but the human). 

And then there are the "sugars" that are included as part of the whole "inulin" addition (which in turn might not be declared by name but might be hidden as part of vegetable derivates). Inulin allegedly aids digestions (but can also be used to enhance the fat content) etc (though I guess, ultimately, if they made good digestible food they wouldn't need to add stuff to aid digestion). 

So, sugars are not sugars are not sugars but whichever way you spin it there really is no need for them.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Well, sometimes a little thank you wouldn't go amiss.  Ah well, thankfully it was mostly copied and pasted from other threads on here.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I noticed!!! But thank you from me so I didn't have to cut and paste your threads!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

You and me and Ibbica, eh?


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## ShelybellyandTeamC (Dec 13, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Well, sometimes a little thank you wouldn't go amiss.  Ah well, thankfully it was mostly copied and pasted from other threads on here.


Were would we all be without you HOBBS! lol 

And you too Spid! your copy and pasting skills are impeccable lol :lol:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

ShelybellyandTeamC said:


> Were would we all be without you HOBBS! lol
> 
> And you too Spid! your copy and pasting skills are impeccable lol :lol:


Actually, this wasn't supposed to turn into one big ego massage from all you guys. I actually specifically had the op in mind. But perhaps Ibbica is right and it just has been too overwhelming....


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## ibbica (Aug 9, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> You and me and Ibbica, eh?


*lol* don't mind me... just, um, stalking you a little 

:thumbup:

I suppose I'm still 'new' enough to remember how it felt to first dive in to all this. It can be a bit much! I find it all fascinating and am now eating it up, but it can be... _frustrating_ to first find out that manufacturers and corporations can't be blindly trusted to know what's "best"


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## maisiecat (Jul 27, 2011)

Maybe the OP is looking for better food and will come back later.

Thank you from me though, as although I can't get mine off the Felix and Whiskas, you have reminded me again what I am giving them, and that I am going to give Maisie another try one day on something that is good for her, and hope it lasts for longer than a week.


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## ShelybellyandTeamC (Dec 13, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Actually, this wasn't supposed to turn into one big ego massage from all you guys. I actually specifically had the op in mind. But perhaps Ibbica is right and it just has been too overwhelming....


haha, yeah but you got to admit we all enjoy a ego boost every now and again lol


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## Alicia2011 (Dec 27, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Well, sometimes a little thank you wouldn't go amiss.  Ah well, thankfully it was mostly copied and pasted from other threads on here.


I'm sorry, I've been doing assignments since 10am and have been researching on lots of different websites and forums, so it took longer than normal for me to go round to check for replies. I did read the post and it's been very helpful, thank you.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

Ah paste and copy I thought I was going mad or having de ja vu


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## anotheruser (Aug 17, 2011)

Nicolajane said:


> Yep the low meat content means it's bulked up with things that cats wouldn't normally eat.


Although these days, especially with indoor cats, it is what they would normally eat.

Don't really understand people who are "I must feed my cat raw food so they have what nature intended" but then say "I must keep my cat indoors" - cats are surely meant to roam about outside as it's what nature intended.
Cars are no worse than any other predator.

Hobbs has already said what needs to be said regarding the actual thread though


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

anotheruser said:


> Don't really understand people who are "I must feed my cat raw food so they have what nature intended" but then say "I must keep my cat indoors" - cats are surely meant to roam about outside as it's what nature intended.
> Cars are no worse than any other predator.


I don't see those two things as being mutually exclusive.

+ You might want to feed your cat the best diet (which imo is the one that best mimics what they would normally eat in terms of, well, meat content, carb content, moisture content etc) to help towards a healthier life (or perhaps because of more philosophical reasons)

+ but keep them in for their own good. You might live near a busy road, in a flat or god knows where where you think that it just wouldn't be safe for your cat to roam.

In either case you want what is best for the cat in your situation.


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## Mo1959 (Mar 31, 2012)

hobbs2004 said:


> I don't see those two things as being mutually exclusive.
> 
> + You might want to feed your cat the best diet (which imo is the one that best mimics what they would normally eat in terms of, well, meat content, carb content, moisture content etc) to help towards a healthier life (or perhaps because of more philosophical reasons)
> 
> ...


My situation exactly.......want to feed Tia good quality wet food but have no desire to live on my nerves every time I hear a car go by in the street or wonder if an off lead dog is chasing her, etc.

I very occasionally feel a slight pang of guilt not letting her out but then I read statistics of the average lifespans of indoor versus outdoor cats and that convinces me I am doing the right thing.


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## ibbica (Aug 9, 2010)

anotheruser said:


> Although these days, especially with indoor cats, it is what they would normally eat.
> 
> Don't really understand people who are "I must feed my cat raw food so they have what nature intended" but then say "I must keep my cat indoors" - cats are surely meant to roam about outside as it's what nature intended.
> Cars are no worse than any other predator.
> ...


Well, you're right in that "it's what nature intended" isn't a good reason to feed raw; or to do anything, for that matter. "Natural" isn't necessarily the same as "best".

I try to feed and care for my cats as _best_ I can, based on evidence and reasoning, not what's "natural" (which can be an unfortunately slippery term at the best of times). I don't, for example, believe it's "best" for them to eat their "natural" (until very recently, at least) diet of self-caught, disease- and parasite-ridden small wild animals. Knowledge of current feline physiology and biology is nevertheless _a factor_ in determining the 'best' course of action to take on any issue.

I must disagree with your assertion that they're "no worse than any other predator", as humans supplement their feed and maintain them at an abnormally high population density compared to native predators. But that's a topic for another thread


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

ibbica said:


> I don't, for example, believe it's "best" for them to eat their "natural" (until very recently, at least) diet of self-caught, disease- and parasite-ridden small wild animals. Knowledge of current feline physiology and biology is nevertheless _a factor_ in determining the 'best' course of action to take on any issue.


I think that is a very good point and it is something that hasn't sat right with me for a while for two reasons - sorry OP to take this on a slight tangent.

1) The argument of staunch raw feeders is that the raw diet is the one that is the "best" and most species-appropriate. Not going to argue that point because I think it is right at heart. But, in those discussions the logical assumption often seems to be that "best" equals "will live the longest". Now, nature being nature she is more concerned with procreation (survival of the fittest etc) than with ensuring that most lead a healthy, long life. I have had a look at one point for some evidence that shows that cats in the wild would lead a healthy, long life with shiny teeth etc but couldn't really find much at all (some info on feral colonies but there aren't perhaps the best comparison group).

There is also very little info on the life-span on cats in the wild (or rather info on how they once used to live before the advent of cars and other modern inventions that present a danger to cats because that is where I think logically one would need to seek info).

So, I don't think we know how long they lived and how healthily cats "in the wild" used to be when they were dependent on catching their own prey etc. If anyone has some good info please send it my way.

2) Now, my number two concern is the lack of more detailed knowledge re their natural prey, which particularly concerns the current trend to not feed whole prey but to feed a cobbled-together approach. That approach effectively reduces prey to some very simple basics - 80ish percent muscle meat (including heart), 8-10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other offal (for most that means kidney).

Now to me that sounds more like pandering to human convenience and availability than it having much to do with recreating the typical prey, say a mouse. Where is the blood, the fur(or feathers), the nutrients from the fermented gut (which may or may not be eaten), the nutrients from all of the other bits of "mouse" (eyes, brain, spleen, thyroid, etc) that aren't so easily had from butchers, supermarkets etc.

Now I know some raw feeders who go to fair lengths to try to recreate a prey as much as they possibly can, but I also know a lot of raw feeders who put a lot of trust into meat that can be had from a butchers/supermarket, which has been well-hung and bled out (to start off with) and who are severely limited by the offal or organ meat they can get. But they are being told that because they follow the basic ratio they are feeding their cat the best diet.

However, that is where I personally think the advances in feline nutrition knowledge re the nutrients and their minimum and maximum levels are also essential and somehow the two need to be combined in a sensible way.

Sorry, gone completely off-tangent and am not even sure my ramblings make sense.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

ibbica said:


> I must disagree with your assertion that they're "no worse than any other predator", as humans supplement their feed and maintain them at an abnormally high population density compared to native predators. But that's a topic for another thread


Not only that but we kill just for fun (other species may do that too but we seem to be doing it on a grander scale) and we kill in abundance and then chuck our abundant spoils on landfill.


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## ibbica (Aug 9, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> ...
> Sorry, gone completely off-tangent and am not even sure my ramblings make sense.


Hopefully the OP will forgive us 

But yes, very nicely said :thumbsup: (hm... hopefully that's not just because we're already on the same page )

I've done field research (by which I mean "hanging out backcountry trapping and studying wild animals") and I can certainly say that in my own experience, there's no shortage of wild carnivores with bad teeth :scared: (well, alright: no more than the overall 'shortage of wild carnivores', anyway...)

BUT, since I really only have what amounts to "anecdotes" - haven't specifically collected data on that specific subject - I'm not comfortable asserting it as 'fact' that, say, 'wild carnivores have horrible dental hygiene'. Most researchers tend to be like that, at least within their own field: reluctant to stick their necks out *too* far without solid data to back up their claims (too much risk to one's professional reputation otherwise!).

That leaves the general public with a relative excess of information generated by people who know something about what they're talking about but don't have solid evidence for their claims, or who can spin a good story from a few anecdotes, or who base claims on demonstrably false information, or... Unfortunately, it's not necessarily easy to accurately assess who's worth listening to, and who's full of beans. Thankfully there are groups working to fill in the blanks in our knowledge base (like the folks conducting the very-long-term vaccination trials in dogs, yay!), but lifelong studies in long-lived species are lengthy, time-consuming, and often underfunded endeavours.

So... anyone want to fund a study on the dental health, eating habits, and lifespan of the various "felis" species? 

(Incidentally, there actually is some real information available on lifespans in the wild vs. captivity... lots on rodents, and I seem to remember a few studies on foxes and wolves, but I've not seen much on small cats I'm afraid. IIRC, in all cases where a species can be bred in captivity, average lifespan is longer in captivity than in the wild, but I'd have to re-check how much of that is due to decreased mortality early in development, rather than changes in adult mortality.)


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> 2) Now, my number two concern is the lack of more detailed knowledge re their natural prey


That reminds me of something DD said as I was opening a pouch of Felix's finest beef.. "so, could a cat actually catch a cow in real life?" was a fair point.. after a little think she came back with "well we couldn't catch them really if we didn't have a gun"


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Tink82 said:


> That reminds me of something DD said as I was opening a pouch of Felix's finest beef.. "so, could a cat actually catch a cow in real life?" was a fair point.. after a little think she came back with "well we couldn't catch them really if we didn't have a gun"


Ah, that is good ole DD logic for you! But then again our ancestors managed quite well to eat big prey even though they didn't have guns. 

Yes, the argument is often made that commercial cat food should come with meat that would be cats' real prey instead of the ones that are unlikely to be caught by them in the wild (such as beef, pork, venison, lamb etc). But the thing is that the pet food industry is an offshoot of the human food industry, so the pet food uses up all of the bits that aren't used for human consumption. And we don't tend to eat mouse, or insect.

And because these aren't routinely used in the human food chain they are actually quite expensive and the price one would have to pay for mouse-cat food would be nearly prohibitive (particularly given that most people baulk at the idea of paying good money on cat food).


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i'm a little embarressed to admit that i feed my cats felix. It's what my mother always fed them and 3 of them were her cats originally so it seemed better to stick with it (they'd had enough sudden changes at that point in time).
I just wish it was easier to get hold of better foods in order to try them out. It's all very well and good ordering a 'better' wet food online but not so good if it arrives and your cats wont touch it. 
it's pretty annoying really. Supermarkets only stock crap, and local pet shops are quickly becoming a thing of the past as they cant compete with the big online superstores.
Of course it could be just me making excuses. I could easily order online and i imagine my cats will eat anything if they get hungry enough. But i am not most people. Most people dont come to a pet forum, so most people dont see posts like the one hobbs made or the sticky at the top of this forum.
If these so called 'good wet food' manufacturers really had animals best interests at heart they would make their products available in normal shops.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

I gave Jasper one of those gourmet type foods, duck and garden veg. He went nuts for it.. He will hapily leave his felix, he really isn't that fussed by it.. He only has that as that is what my brother was giving him

So, if felix etc are really not that good, what foods would anyone like to recommend??


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## munchkinpie (Oct 20, 2011)

Bozita you can get it from zooplus x


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

munchkinpie said:


> Bozita you can get it from zooplus x


Available in reindeer and elk :scared:


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## munchkinpie (Oct 20, 2011)

Its a good quality food with a high meat content compared to british food as they have tougher laws regarding pet food. Also good for cats with sensitive stomachs


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

munchkinpie said:


> Its a good quality food with a high meat content compared to british food as they have tougher laws regarding pet food. Also good for cats with sensitive stomachs


I noticed after it's not British!


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

anotheruser said:


> Although these days, especially with indoor cats, it is what they would normally eat.
> 
> Don't really understand people who are "I must feed my cat raw food so they have what nature intended" but then say "I must keep my cat indoors" - cats are surely meant to roam about outside as it's what nature intended.
> Cars are no worse than any other predator.
> ...


What's the point of me feeding my cat a great diet for him to then go and get killed on the road?! 
I miss the point of why you posted that but hey ho....


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Porps. If you would like to try a couple of tetrapaks of Bozita, you are welcome. Your location is Manchester so can't be far away. If you would like to drop me a PM with your address and we can arrange something.


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## ibbica (Aug 9, 2010)

Tink82 said:


> That reminds me of something DD said as I was opening a pouch of Felix's finest beef.. "so, could a cat actually catch a cow in real life?" was a fair point.. after a little think she came back with "well we couldn't catch them really if we didn't have a gun"


Hasn't met many cows, has she?  :lol:


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## ibbica (Aug 9, 2010)

Tink82 said:


> I gave Jasper one of those gourmet type foods, duck and garden veg. He went nuts for it.. He will hapily leave his felix, he really isn't that fussed by it.. He only has that as that is what my brother was giving him
> 
> So, if felix etc are really not that good, what foods would anyone like to recommend??


Around my house, we're currently feeding mostly Grau, and of that it's mostly their "gourmet" varieties (yep, the ones with rice  Eh, it's a tiny amount )

Also on rotation: Animonda Carny, Bozita tetrapacks, Smilla, Nature's Menu (wait, how did I even get that? it's not in my local Zooplus any more... weird), Cosma (NOT all varieties are "complete", mind!).... and I _think_ that's it  Oh, and (raw or freeze-dried) chunks of beef, heart, gizzards, or meaty chicken/quail bits, depending on the day.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

ibbica said:


> Around my house, we're currently feeding mostly Grau, and of that it's mostly their "gourmet" varieties (yep, the ones with rice  Eh, it's a tiny amount )
> 
> Also on rotation: Animonda Carny, Bozita tetrapacks, Smilla, Nature's Menu (wait, how did I even get that? it's not in my local Zooplus any more... weird), Cosma (NOT all varieties are "complete", mind!).... and I _think_ that's it  Oh, and (raw or freeze-dried) chunks of beef, heart, gizzards, or meaty chicken/quail bits, depending on the day.


I think I got that.... :crazy:


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## anotheruser (Aug 17, 2011)

jo-pop said:


> What's the point of me feeding my cat a great diet for him to then go and get killed on the road?!
> I miss the point of why you posted that but hey ho....


With that logic though, what's the point in feeding ourselves with good food as we are just going to die (maybe even on the road)? 

Why did I post? To create discussion. I had a question (or statement) and wondered what other people thought about it. And from the posts following, some users had great things to say.

It would be more interesting to see what results we would get from a wider community with regard to outdoor cats being run over; it must be a minority. But then I understand I don't want to be in that minority and agree it does depend on where you live. I currently live in the centre of a town (literally!). My cats are currently indoor. When I move house at the end of the month, to a residential street, they will become outdoor.

I read many threads on here about owners' cats developing bad health one way or another yet in my experience, my cats haven't (yet?). Same with food. While I read stories of other cats not liking some foods, mine are happy to chomp on whatever I give them.
I guess for me it's all about weighing up advice and other owners' experiences from places including here and my own experience bring up two lovely healthy happy cats.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Now I can't find the research but the average cat (that gets let outside) lives to be 3 years old! We live in an *extremely rural* area - still have a run - Bessie escaped and was run over two months later.

Given that most cats can live to be 5 - that's a fair few yeas to lose!


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## Clairey1234 (Apr 3, 2012)

spid said:


> Now I can't find the research but the average cat (that gets let outside) lives to be 3 years old! We live in an *extremely rural* area - still have a run - Bessie escaped and was run over two months later.
> 
> Given that most cats can live to be 5 - that's a fair few yeas to lose!


my cat has done well then!! he's 9 and still loves the outdoors


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

We (me and my family have lost so many to the roads despite being rural it's ridiculous!) - in the last 20 years 10 cats. That's just too many for me - I think the problem is many people (us included back then) let them out far too early - if you wait for a year they seem to have a lot better road sense.


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## Clairey1234 (Apr 3, 2012)

that is alot of cats  
i didn't let simba out until he was about 2. the good thing with him, is he only stays around the gardens.

i am too scared to let my other cats out! i hate people feeding them, and i hate it if they don't come when i shout. i just worry like crazy! 
so it's best to keep them in!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I think it all depends on the area. Some rural areas have country lanes that seem quiet until a car or two speeds down at 90mph! That doesn't give a cat a chance to get out of the way 

Where I am is suburban and my last cat went outdoors a lot and lived to be 19!! He was in fact hit by a car once, but escaped with minor injuries. I really think that rural roads should have lower speed limits, especially the really narrow lanes.


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Treaclesmum said:


> I think it all depends on the area. Some rural areas have country lanes that seem quiet until a car or two speeds down at 90mph! That doesn't give a cat a chance to get out of the way
> 
> Where I am is suburban and my last cat went outdoors a lot and lived to be 19!! He was in fact hit by a car once, but escaped with minor injuries. I really think that rural roads should have lower speed limits, especially the really narrow lanes.


Funnily enough, both Misi and Tarka had low-speed run-ins with cars and both lived to be 19. I used to let Bruno out and he was killed on the road just before his second birthday. After that heartbreak, I decided to keep all subsequent cats in. Simba goes out into the garden on a lead, and that's it. Fortunately he's not fussed. I also don't want them catching wildlife. Misi used to be forever catching lizards, and both her and Bruno came home with snakes. The snakes at least, I managed to rescue, fortunately! But I don't want them catching little finches and what-not


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## Celador (May 12, 2011)

spid said:


> Now I can't find the research but the average cat (that gets let outside) lives to be 3 years old! We live in an *extremely rural* area - still have a run - Bessie escaped and was run over two months later.


Hey there, I can't blame you for posting this statistic up, it seems to be quite a widespread stat. that I've seen posted on threads, forums, cat webistes etc.

Even just a quick google will get you loads of websites that quote this statistic or a similar one.

It's usually done without ever linking to the 'study' or clarifying how it was done, what kind of cats did they look at, what kind of areas did they do the study in?

In short, the statistic is potentially very misleading and I'll explain why I believe that:


I believe the study was performed in the USA where there are significant differences and levels of danger in comparison to the UK, including much higher rates of traffic, significantly more predators etc
When a study like this is undertaken, the results are only applicable to you if you happen to live in the same *conditions* in which the study was performed. If someone published a study based in New York City that said outdoor cats lived an average of 2 years, you wouldn't use it as a basis for making a decision about your cats if you lived in a particularly rural part of Britain.
Does the study take into account Feral cats? I don't know if it does/doesn't, but if it does - that would have a significant impact on the results.
Approximately 80-90% of British Cats have outdoor access and the majority of those live into their teens - so how accurate are these figures?
Neutered cats, "statistically", live longer than non-neutered cats AND indoor only cats are "statistically" more likely to be neutered - so there is another potential factor that affects indoor vs outdoor life span.
Outdoor lifestyles have really obvious risk factors that we *must* not ignore, but Indoor only lifestyles have their own risk factors including:
- Behavioral issues *appear* to affect indoor cats more often than outdoor. There are studies which show this to be true, this can affect the mental health of the cat but can also lead to them being given up/abandoned
- Household chemicals, human medications, eating dangerous objects, electrical wires etc
- Cats sharing their homes with smokers are twice as likely than other cats in non-smoking households to develop Feline Leukaemia. Indoor-only cats are at increased risk because they cannot spend time outdoors away from the smoke

Personally, I think that as responsible cat owners, we should care a bit less about statistics and really think long and hard about our own cat's, how they behave, whether they like going outside, whether they've had an outdoor life before we got them. I have read that outdoor cats will find it harder to adapt to an indoor life and can become more stressed / exhibit more behavioral issues etc than cat's who have been raised as indoor from kittens. You know your cat best, do they seem bored / stressed being indoors? do they exhibit repetitive behaviour? over grooming etc? Or are they scared of the outdoors? 

Most importantly, think really seriously about where you live. Are you in a rural area with very little, very low speed traffic? Or do you live a short distance from a 40+mph road with medium / heavy traffic?

Only you know your cats and only you can assess the risks of the area you live in.

I'm not a proponent of either indoor or outdoor, I just think we all need to think long and hard about it, research the risks and make an informed decision.

[edit] http://www.messybeast.com/indooroutdoor.htm


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## Celador (May 12, 2011)

My own situation - I have two cat's now, both abandoned at the Vets where my sister works. We live in quite a rural part of North Wales ... outside my window is a massive field. There are quite a few houses around me but traffic is light and speed limits are 15mph.

Cookie (in my sig) LOVES being outside and howls like a wolf (I kid you not) if you don't let her out. When howling doesn't work, she'll start scratching furniture, running around, knocking things off shelves / bookcases etc until you relent and let her out.

Rusty - little bit scared of outside ... even more scared of GRASS (seriously). He will sometimes run outside when we let Cookie out, but he won't leave the front garden and he hates stepping on grass, he'll kind of 'hop' over it so that he only has to touch it once or twice.


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## anotheruser (Aug 17, 2011)

spid said:


> I think the problem is many people (us included back then) let them out far too early - if you wait for a year they seem to have a lot better road sense.


Now there's something we agree on :001_tt2:
My cat was let out just around her first birthday to hang out in the garden. Many times she seemed to get stuck in the tree, but then figured she could sit in the middle of a housing estate road and hang out there, even with a bus beeping it's horn!

It's just a judgement I think.
I'm lucky enough to be moving to a house with a long garden and two large evergreen trees at the bottom. The kitten hasn't really been out before, he will be one year old in a few weeks. The cat has been out but never goes far.
This will be even better for me to assess the road / outdoors as the cats will have to stay in while they get used to the new house and surroundings.

So it seems there is a small window where it could be considered for cats to be "safe" outdoors, not too rural and not in a busy city.



Celador said:


> It's usually done without ever linking to the 'study' or clarifying how it was done, what kind of cats did they look at, what kind of areas did they do the study in?
> 
> In short, the statistic is potentially very misleading...


(Y) You are right.

This is also an important factor with all statistics, not just this one.

A good example is hair care products. Check out the bottom of TV adverts where it says how many were in the survey. The results vary depending on what product it is and which would give the best result.
Personally, I think they should all be out of 100 people, then we all know where we stand.

There are so many variables which makes studies like this very "flimsy". But then they can be a good guide. I guess the best guide can sometimes only be yourself.

*Back to the topic...*
I am also in the same boat as what food to give my cats. Animonda Carney was good but now they've changed it to 60% offal. So I moved to Bozita, which was good but I hear their "in jelly" and "in gravy" food isn't much better than the likes of Felix. I don't like Grau. Macs is a possible, but I haven't got the space to store a mountain of food and I'd rather buy it in bulk. But then I will shortly be introducing DAF meats three times a week so it's likely they will have enough of a balanced diet. When I've decided on what I am actually going to do then I'll investigate more into the right values.
My sisters cat has lived off of Felix for years.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> I think it all depends on the area. Some rural areas have country lanes that seem quiet until a car or two speeds down at 90mph! That doesn't give a cat a chance to get out of the way
> 
> Where I am is suburban and my last cat went outdoors a lot and lived to be 19!! He was in fact hit by a car once, but escaped with minor injuries. I really think that rural roads should have lower speed limits, especially the really narrow lanes.


Just a quick comment from me. Where I live is rural and they've really reduced the speed limits over the last 5 years. Some roads have gone from 60mph to 30mph. While people aren't impressed, the amount of sheep, cattle, cats, dogs and people that have been saved has shot up. Having said that, just because those limits are there, it doesn't mean people pay any attention to them. In a town 40 minutes away, a mother and daughter were hit in the middle of the afternoon on a quite country road with a limit of 40mph. The driver was clocking in 70mph and by sheer dumb luck they both survived. So my point is is that while you can do everything in your power to make things safe, there'll always be that one lunatic.


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