# Nipping other dogs - should I be worried



## finoni9 (Sep 5, 2008)

About a month ago - Rocky was saying hello to 2 labradors but after a few minutes, he had had enough and went off to "sniff the grass" but the labs wouldn't leave him alone (just sniffing at him) and he bared his teeth at them and then moved away. The followed him and continued to sniff his and he tried to "nip" one of them.

Today another lab kept sniffing at him and again Rocky tried to nip him as the lab wouldn't leave him alone.

Should I be worried - normally Rocky will say hello then a minute or so later run off to do his own thing but both these times the lab wouldn't leave him be - is this acceptable behaviour (of Rocky) or should I be doing something about it?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

If he is being harassed, then its perfectly acceptable for him to warn them off. Dogs cant communicate verbally, so rely on body language. Snarling and nipping isnt always aggressive, its a form of communication. They didnt listen to the showing of teeth, so he has to move up to a nip.

If the other dogs keep annoying him, ask the owners to get them under control. You dog is small and could be feeling intimidated.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> If he is being harassed, then its perfectly acceptable for him to warn them off. Dogs cant communicate verbally, so rely on body language. Snarling and nipping isnt always aggressive, its a form of communication. They didnt listen to the showing of teeth, so he has to move up to a nip.
> 
> If the other dogs keep annoying him, ask the owners to get them under control. You dog is small and could be feeling intimidated.


Totally agree.

This is a good read http://www.positiveway.us/Downloads/HeJustWantsToSayHi.pdf


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

i agree too. those labs are being rude, if someone wouldnt leave me alone id punch em in the face, nothing wrong with sticking up for yourself.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

totally disagree........... if the two dogs were just doing doggy stuff theres no need for any reaction by him at all. You should be able to tell him to 'come' to stop issues like this, as when he gets away with it once he'll do it again. What is he like on the lead? if he does the same then get some corrections put in ..... id never say it was ok to have a dog that reacts so quickly. Dominance isnt about showing teeth or turning to nip, dominance is about them knowing they are confident enough to mix and respect others


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

I agree with mostly what Nonnie was saying but i also agree with what James1 said about needing to correct that behavior. Dogs aren't meant to "snap" when they get intolerant, they are more subtle by using assertive body language and less visible warnings. If he is doing that it is a form of aggression and aggression in my opinion should be corrected the moment its displayed. The labs are obviously stable enough to not have a go back...its not a case of them "ignoring warnings", they are just being tolerant towards un-called for displays of aggression which is a good thing because that proves that they weren't doing anything to be "snapped at" for in the first place. 
Its a good idea though to let other owners know how he reacts just so that it also makes it easier for you to curb that behavior.
Dave


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I absolutely agree that if a dog does not heed a warning then it deserves to get nipped. I have a very nervous dog, who if pursued will nip. She will quite happily ignore other dogs and if they follow her or try to sniff she gives them a warning. However if they do not listen then she will nip them.

It is un fair on dogs who are fearful of other dogs, when they are not left alone. 

On the other side of the coin I have another dog who is the complete opposite and goes up to every dog trying to play. He ended up getting bitten last week, because he would not leave this poor dog alone. He absolutely deserved it and he needs to learn boundries and heed warning. 

Before anybody says "you shouldn't have let it get that far". WE are working on his problem of over excitedness with other dogs. But I got caught out that particular day.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> If he is being harassed, then its perfectly acceptable for him to warn them off. Dogs cant communicate verbally, so rely on body language. Snarling and nipping isnt always aggressive, its a form of communication. They didnt listen to the showing of teeth, so he has to move up to a nip.
> 
> If the other dogs keep annoying him, ask the owners to get them under control. You dog is small and could be feeling intimidated.


I totally agree with the above, your dog is a lot smaller... he may be feeling nervous around other dogs, if he moves away from the labs and they pressure him/follow him they are ignoring his 'back of warning'

James1 & M - I agree aggresiveness when first meeting other dogs should be corrected, but when dog walks away surely he is letting the other dogs know he isn't interested and to leave him alone? Would you not agree


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree Katie. If your dog is trying to walk away from the other dog, then the other dog should get the hint and leave him alone. The other dog's owners should also be watching both dog's body language so that they can recall their dog the INSTANT your dog wants to move away. If they can't recall the dog at this point, it should not be off lead.

xx


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

> Dogs aren't meant to "snap" when they get intolerant, they are more subtle by using assertive body language and less visible warnings.


But the other dogs are clearly ignoring the more subtle warnings, aren't they?? So the dog has no option but to step up the warning.

And I'd ignore anyone who told you to "correct" a dog for warning another dog off - start telling them off for, for example, growling and you risk them skipping the warning and going straight for a bite.

Listen to your dog, step in if necessary and tell the Lab owner to call his dogs away.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I think its acceptable if the other dog ignores the polite warning to go away. I have a 6Ib and a 9Ib dog who are extremely tolerant of other dogs but sometimes bigger dogs do bulldoze over them. Ive no problem if they have to give a warning nip if growls arent working.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

PoisonGirl said:


> I agree Katie. If your dog is trying to walk away from the other dog, then the other dog should get the hint and leave him alone. The other dog's owners should also be watching both dog's body language so that they can recall their dog the INSTANT your dog wants to move away. If they can't recall the dog at this point, it should not be off lead.
> 
> xx


well said gal x


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

goodvic2 said:


> I absolutely agree that if a dog does not heed a warning then it deserves to get nipped. I have a very nervous dog, who if pursued will nip. She will quite happily ignore other dogs and if they follow her or try to sniff she gives them a warning. However if they do not listen then she will nip them.
> 
> It is un fair on dogs who are fearful of other dogs, when they are not left alone.
> 
> ...


is it me or is that just crazy~?
If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
hmmm this kind of this does my head in, if your dogs prone to bite. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!

unbelievable :thumbdown:


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> is it me or is that just crazy~?
> If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
> If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
> hmmm this kind of this does my head in, if your dogs prone to bite. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!
> ...


TBH I couldn't disagree more. My dog has had numerous labs run up and try and jump all over him...just because he is smaller why should he be kept on the lead...to get away from these dogs he has to run and hide between my legs...now if other dogs bully him in this manor, or are over playfull he wil nip them and let them know they need to back of. I am ready to step in if things get nasty and if he were to go up and bite a dog out of nastyness he would get a stern telling off and be leashed. Overplayful dogs are sometimes the worst dogs to have!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> is it me or is that just crazy~?
> If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
> If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
> hmmm this kind of this does my head in, *if your dogs prone to bite*. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!
> ...


A dog being prone to bite and a dog deffending itself are two completley different things!!


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> is it me or is that just crazy~?
> If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
> If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
> hmmm this kind of this does my head in, if your dogs prone to bite. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!
> ...


Goodvic didn't say her nervous dog was "prone to bite" - she said it nipped in self defense when PURSUED by other dogs. And in her second example, with her dog which goes after other dogs, it was HER dog who got nipped. She admitted that she shouldn't have allowed that to happen. I'm not sure why you're having a go at her?


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## tredz (Jun 10, 2009)

finoni9 said:


> About a month ago - Rocky was saying hello to 2 labradors but after a few minutes, he had had enough and went off to "sniff the grass" but the labs wouldn't leave him alone (just sniffing at him) and he bared his teeth at them and then moved away. The followed him and continued to sniff his and he tried to "nip" one of them.
> 
> Today another lab kept sniffing at him and again Rocky tried to nip him as the lab wouldn't leave him alone.
> 
> Should I be worried - normally Rocky will say hello then a minute or so later run off to do his own thing but both these times the lab wouldn't leave him be - is this acceptable behaviour (of Rocky) or should I be doing something about it?


To me it sounds as if your dog is just claiming his own space and taking it to the next level as the other dogs do not understand thus making them get the picture i do not think that insident should affect him/her. If you do see that it has affected him such as loosing trust in other dogs should maybe seek advice so for his own self to create peace.


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

james1 said:


> is it me or is that just crazy~?
> If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
> If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
> hmmm this kind of this does my head in, if your dogs prone to bite. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!
> ...


I totally agree with all that is said here. I think its unacceptable for your dog to show any type of aggression. What if next time it is a child? Im sorry but dogs need to learn that bearing there teeth and nipping is not the behaviour you would expect. As you are the pack leader....or should be the pack leader! If a dog cannot be trusted then it should be kept on the lead, and owners of other dogs should be told to keep a distance.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

I think you may have missed the OP's point, her dog is nervous but friendly...other dogs (off lead) that are over excited keep coming up to him and persuing him when it is not wanted. This does not make her dog aggresive...?! Why should it have to be persued, sniffed, pulled about and followed if it doesn't want to be? 

With regards to children/humans - yes baring teeth etc should be corrected but then children also should respect that when a dog walks away they shouldn't follow. I have never stroked a dog, ever without first asking if it was ok to touch, if they moved away so did i! Simple!

Just because they are not human doesn't mean they shouldn't have their right to space, I wouldn't like someone following me if I didn't want it and it is no different in my opinion.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> I totally agree with all that is said here. I think its unacceptable for your dog to show any type of aggression. What if next time it is a child? Im sorry but dogs need to learn that bearing there teeth and nipping is not the behaviour you would expect. As you are the pack leader....or should be the pack leader! If a dog cannot be trusted then it should be kept on the lead, and owners of other dogs should be told to keep a distance.


Oh rubbish.

All dogs have their threshold where they won't tolerate certain things and if another dog is climbing all over them or otherwise behaving in a way that the first dog deems "rude" of course they're likely to nip!

Why on earth does it follow that they will then go on to bite a child?? I would hope that a child wouldn't be climbing all over the dog!

I certainly agree that if a dog is dog-aggressive it should be kept on a lead until it is rehabilitated, and other owners told to keep their dogs at a distance but we aren't talking about true dog-aggression here!


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Oh rubbish.
> 
> All dogs have their threshold where they won't tolerate certain things and if another dog is climbing all over them or otherwise behaving in a way that the first dog deems "rude" of course they're likely to nip!
> 
> ...


Just my opinion, i didnt and wouldnt call your opinion rubbish.
A child could well try and climb all over a dog, some parents dont control there children like some dog owners dont control there dogs!!!


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Just my opinion, i didnt and wouldnt call your opinion rubbish.
> A child could well try and climb all over a dog, some parents dont control there children like some dog owners dont control there dogs!!!


And a dog who doesn't mind other dogs at all, might well nip a child who climbed all over it. And a dog who hates other dogs might well NOT nip a child who climbs all over it.

Dogs are well aware that children aren't other dogs. Three exclamation marks back atcha


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

calm down, calm down...lol!
Handbags at the ready girls... 
Collie I was waiting for my reply back from HB-mini poor woman can't reply to us both!! :eek6:


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Like i said it was only my opinion, and my three exclamation marks were only trying to point out that people sometimes dont control there kids!

Im not the type of person that comes on forums to argue with others. I dont really like your sarcastic tone. Maybe you know more about dogs then me, you probably do, but like i have siad twice already this was only my opinion and i dont really appreciate how you seem to be very annoyed at it!!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Like i said it was only my opinion, and my three exclamation marks were only trying to point out that people sometimes dont control there kids!
> 
> Im not the type of person that comes on forums to argue with others. I dont really like your sarcastic tone. Maybe you know more about dogs then me, you probably do, but like i have siad twice already this was only my opinion and i dont really appreciate how you seem to be very annoyed at it!!


is this me? Im confuzzled...


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Like i said it was only my opinion, and my three exclamation marks were only trying to point out that people sometimes dont control there kids!
> 
> Im not the type of person that comes on forums to argue with others. I dont really like your sarcastic tone. Maybe you know more about dogs then me, you probably do, but like i have siad twice already this was only my opinion and i dont really appreciate how you seem to be very annoyed at it!!


Well, you did point out that sometimes people can't control their kids, yeah. And it's certainly a valid point. It was perfectly clear without three exclamation marks - if you really felt the need for any at all, one would have done 

But yes, I agree I leapt upon you a bit, and I apologise for that. I have no idea whether I know more about dogs than you do; I don't profess to be an expert. But I found your post worrying in that it seemed to imply that if a dog nips another dog, even when provoked, it is likely to turn on a child. I felt the need, just in case anyone reading the forum also had a dog who nips when provoked got worried about their children, to point out that it ain't necessarily so


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Well, you did point out that sometimes people can't control their kids, yeah. And it's certainly a valid point. It was perfectly clear without three exclamation marks - if you really felt the need for any at all, one would have done
> 
> But yes, I agree I leapt upon you a bit, and I apologise for that. I have no idea whether I know more about dogs than you do; I don't profess to be an expert. But I found your post worrying in that it seemed to imply that if a dog nips another dog, even when provoked, it is likely to turn on a child. I felt the need, just in case anyone reading the forum also had a dog who nips when provoked got worried about their children, to point out that it ain't necessarily so


I will write however i choose, and i put three exclamation marks....isnt really a big deal is it.

I didnt mean that, that dog would definatley nip a child. My point was that obviously that dog doesnt like to be hassled. (fair enough) So what i meant was sometimes children can be over bearing and a dog should be taught that nipping isnt the answer to this situation at the time. At the end of the day its all about responsible dog/ child ownership isnt it, watching your dog and children and monitoring there behaviour.


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> is this me? Im confuzzled...


No wasnt meant for you.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> I will write however i choose, and i put three exclamation marks....isnt really a big deal is it.
> 
> I didnt mean that, that dog would definatley nip a child. My point was that obviously that dog doesnt like to be hassled. (fair enough) So what i meant was sometimes children can be over bearing and a dog should be taught that nipping isnt the answer to this situation at the time. At the end of the day its all about responsible dog/ child ownership isnt it, watching your dog and children and monitoring there behaviour.


So if you think it's fair enough for a dog not to like being hassled, then are you suggesting that you should teach the dog to tolerate being hassled, just in case a child ever does it?


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Yes, i do. I think if you are responsible and you are watching you can remove your dog from that situation. To me though even if it was a small risk that the dog COULD do that to a child then a child should always be more important and a dog should tolerate it yes. However i would also hope and expect that the owners would control the stuation and stop whoever was hassling the dog.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Yes, i do. I think if you are responsible and you are watching you can remove your dog from that situation. To me though even if it was a small risk that the dog COULD do that to a child then a child should always be more important and a dog should tolerate it yes. However i would also hope and expect that the owners would control the stuation and stop whoever was hassling the dog.


Gotta say tbh that i disagree a child shouldn't be allowed to do as they wish to a dog, there sould be boundaries.


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Yes i have said that a child shouldnt and should be supervised and controlled. Truth of the matter is though that sometimes children arent


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Yes i have said that a child shouldnt and should be supervised and controlled. Truth of the matter is though that sometimes children arent


In which case no matter how trained a dog is they can snap depending on how the child is.
A child should never be unsupervised with a dog, or any animal until old enough to deal with 10+


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

No they shouldnt be left unsupervised. To be honest i dont like to spend my evening trying to argue/ debate with people. I appreciate your views, i hope you can appreciate mine. Im leaving this thread now.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Oh rubbish.
> 
> All dogs have their threshold where they won't tolerate certain things and if another dog is climbing all over them or otherwise behaving in a way that the first dog deems "rude" of course they're likely to nip!
> 
> ...


so i expect youll be all loving and full of prasie for a dog that is just showing its bondries and you wont be complaining in the least when something like this happens
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/45551-bitten-dog-mortified.html
this is the extreme, though it reflects the point that any biting ... ive never seen a dog "nip" another dog to defend itself and get away with it, so should be put a stop to. If the dog is nervous it is the owner who needs to socialise it and sort out the prooblems! simply becasue it is small cute and nervous does make any excuse for it potentially drawing blood from an inquisitive dog. If the other dogs were bullying it then the owner needs to asert themselves.
I wouldnt want my dog 'nipped' and i cant believe that others would too? apart from goodvic that is :sad:


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Ah, if only the world was black and white..right and wrong..Unfortunately here on planet earth there is rarely a one size fits all answer.
Admittedly all dogs and children with animals should be supervised at all times but sometimes life gets in the way!
Im still ok with the nipping. Id even be ok with my smaller dogs nipping a child!!:yikes: A while ago my chihuahua nipped a STB at the park. They met, friendly enuf, Adam threw himself on his back which is how he always greets other dogs and things were going well. However the STB was being very dominant and pawing him and standing over him, not friendly, so after a couple of warning growls he gave a little air nip. The owner then arrived to pull his dog away. A nip is the dog equivelant of an owner tapping their dog to get its attention. Just a more forceful "pay attention!" signal.
The reason I say that about children is that my little dogs love and adore kids and have been dropped repeatably and squeezed til they yelped before. All with a waggy tail and a jump back into the childs arms. I know if thay felt the need to nip at a child then they would be in danger of serious physical harm. A child could easily kill a 6Ib chihuahua.
Dogs should be allowed their natural defenses, you wouldnt declaw a cat would you? If you have socialised and trained your pooch they should be able to interact with other dogs properly.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> so i expect youll be all loving and full of prasie for a dog that is just showing its bondries and you wont be complaining in the least when something like this happens
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/45551-bitten-dog-mortified.html
> this is the extreme, though it reflects the point that any biting ... ive never seen a dog "nip" another dog to defend itself and get away with it, so should be put a stop to. If the dog is nervous it is the owner who needs to socialise it and sort out the prooblems! simply becasue it is small cute and nervous does make any excuse for it potentially drawing blood from an inquisitive dog. If the other dogs were bullying it then the owner needs to asert themselves.
> I wouldnt want my dog 'nipped' and i cant believe that others would too? apart from goodvic that is :sad:


Depends what you mean by "put a stop to".

If you mean, in the case of a nervous dog, stepping up the socialisation with dogs who know their doggy manners, and warning other owners not to allow their dogs to climb all over it etc, then yes of course.

But if my dog nipped another dog which was being rude, then no, I wouldn't tell it off. I wouldn't panic and assume that it was planning to attack random children.

I'd be interested to hear what YOU would do, James?


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> so i expect youll be all loving and full of prasie for a dog that is just showing its bondries and you wont be complaining in the least when something like this happens
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/45551-bitten-dog-mortified.html
> this is the extreme, though it reflects the point that any biting ... ive never seen a dog "nip" another dog to defend itself and get away with it, so should be put a stop to. If the dog is nervous it is the owner who needs to socialise it and sort out the prooblems! simply becasue it is small cute and nervous does make any excuse for it potentially drawing blood from an inquisitive dog. If the other dogs were bullying it then the owner needs to asert themselves.
> I wouldnt want my dog 'nipped' and i cant believe that others would too? apart from goodvic that is :sad:


Nature says dogs cannot talk, they use body language to communicate, why should you take that away from them?

If a persistant male came up to me and stated talking, and I didn't like his tone if he didn't back off I could walk away and if followed I would defend myself...IMPO this is what a dog is doing.

As puppies, at puppy classes dogs learn biting inhabitions they know how they can bite another dog playfully and they know when to stop because it hurts. We were told by our dog trainer only to intervine in this if it was becoming nasty?!?

No matter how well trained a dog is, placid, friendly or shy if put into a situation where a child where to jump all over it, pull it squeeze it and put it in danger it will defend itself.

You say would we be happy if our dog bite our child, of course not?
But would YOU be happy if your child through playfullness killed your dog because every time your dog defended itself you told it off... Children and people should learn to respect animals they deserve as much rights as we do. 
Off couse no one wants a vicious, aggresive dog...and training should be put in to help this, but if you raise your dog in a sensible mannor you shouldn't have this problem!?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

james1 said:


> is it me or is that just crazy~?
> If i had a dog that was say aggressive - would you think the same?. Is it the other dogs fault for not heeding warnings then ? the other dog could be a pup or simply a very socialble/content dog that could potentially get damaged through an owner not sorting the problem out. I find this live and lean thing absolutely laughable - surely you have to condone good ownership!???
> If a dogs nervous it shouldnt be allowed to run off - it should be on a lead at heel, it running off will be seen as play though you will not be the one taking an injured dog home!
> hmmm this kind of this does my head in, if your dogs prone to bite. you need to keep in on a lead when other dogs are around, keep it settled and keep it out of trouble!
> ...


What on earth is unbelievable about a dog communicating to another dog that it does not want it to come near.

First my dog runs away from the dog.
Second, if it does give chase, then my dog will warn it off with a growl
(By this point I have already said to the owner "my dog is nervous can you stop your dog chasing?"
Lastly, after all these warnings my dog will then nip, because she is frightened and the other dog has not taken a blind bit of notice.

I find it quite unbelievable that you think my dog, being very nervous by this point, should just SUBMIT to the other dog????

Why the hell should my dog be chased and EXPECTED to put up with it!

The dog would not be sociable if it was chasing and ignoring WARNINGS from my dog, would it??? Dogs are experts at reading body lanaguage and know exactly what the other dog means - they know when it is chasing for fun or not. Also if a pup is behaving so unsociably, then quite honestly, rather it gets a nip from my dog rather than being bitten by an aggressive dog!

My dog only runs off to GET AWAY from another dog, otherwise she is quite happy to give dogs a wide birth.

A nip and a bite are two very different things, as I have suffered both, I know the difference as do our dogs!

Just out of interest James1, what should my dog do after she has run away, barked and given a warning of a growl?

Being so highly critical and with perfect dogs, you must have a solution?????


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Hb-mini said:


> Yes i have said that a child shouldnt and should be supervised and controlled. Truth of the matter is though that sometimes children arent


If my child got bitten by a dog, because my child had not asked permission or as a parent I FAILED to protect him/her, it would be my fault - not the dogs.

The only exception to this would be where a dog had actively pursued a child, eg in the park. If a child goes up to a dog and gets bitten - it is the parent's fault, not the dog.

Love the way it's always the dogs fault. Blame the bloody parents!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Depends what you mean by "put a stop to".
> 
> If you mean, in the case of a nervous dog, stepping up the socialisation with dogs who know their doggy manners, and warning other owners not to allow their dogs to climb all over it etc, then yes of course.
> 
> ...


If youve ever attended any socialisation classes then you wuld know what I mean. There are no warning others in socialisation at all onless theres a problem dog. The purpose of them is to have the dog focussed on you whilst theres a mill of other dogs around, though also having the chance to interact in a friendly way being praised for good behaviour.

Its interesting that you more bothered about "putting a stop to" rather than 'owner responsibility' again I suppose if my dog was prone to bite (which he doesnt) i expect youd laugh it off if yours came off worse? I find this sort of thing really worrying that people would basically condone dog fighting? You stop the problem before it starts and that is down to having control of your animal.
The OP was worried enough to ask if this was acceptable which probably suggests they know it shouldnt be happening. If the OP has any value for the dog they will try to stem it from having a retaliatory attack by stopping it from nipping. They will someday meeta a dog that when nipped will nip back. But hey-ho Colliepoodle (and the rest who condone it) its nothing to worry about at all is it - so long as your wins I expect.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> If youve ever attended any socialisation classes then you wuld know what I mean. There are no warning others in socialisation at all onless theres a problem dog. The purpose of them is to have the dog focussed on you whilst theres a mill of other dogs around, though also having the chance to interact in a friendly way being praised for good behaviour.
> 
> Its interesting that you more bothered about "putting a stop to" rather than 'owner responsibility' again I suppose if my dog was prone to bite (which he doesnt) i expect youd laugh it off if yours came off worse? I find this sort of thing really worrying that people would basically condone dog fighting? You stop the problem before it starts and that is down to having control of your animal.
> The OP was worried enough to ask if this was acceptable which probably suggests they know it shouldnt be happening. If the OP has any value for the dog they will try to stem it from having a retaliatory attack by stopping it from nipping. They will someday meeta a dog that when nipped will nip back. But hey-ho Colliepoodle (and the rest who condone it) its nothing to worry about at all is it - so long as your wins I expect.


OP'S DOG IS NOT FIGHTING BUT DEFENDING!!!

Why can't you understand that, you want a submissive dog? That will let people do whatever they want to it because you want it that way.

I see you didn't bother to respond to my previous post!! :thumbdown:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> Nature says dogs cannot talk, they use body language to communicate, why should you take that away from them?
> 
> If a persistant male came up to me and stated talking, and I didn't like his tone if he didn't back off I could walk away and if followed I would defend myself...IMPO this is what a dog is doing.
> 
> ...


please read above post.
and I do hope nobody follows you, i never drew any link between biting a child and another dog - the link I posted was put there as we are talking about biting and it being condoned.
I would not be constantly telling my dog off for defending itself - but I wouldnt be putting it 1) in situations where it needed to 2) id have him well rounded so he knows who to stay clear off .i.e by my side 3) if he was bitten id expect him to bite back though no ...... he would NOT bit first. 
The bite inhubbition your talking about is basic interaction, a dog with little aggression in them will not try to dominate just touch and engage. The dog with aggression will try to always be ontop - though if you have ... as i keep on saying "control of your dog" (no matter what breed) It shouldnt even need to get to that stage. A simple "No" is all that it SHOULD take.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> please read above post.
> and I do hope nobody follows you, i never drew any link between biting a child and another dog - the link I posted was put there as we are talking about biting and it being condoned.
> I would not be constantly telling my dog off for defending itself - but I wouldnt be putting it 1) in situations where it needed to 2) id have him well rounded so he knows who to stay clear off .i.e by my side 3) if he was bitten id expect him to bite back though no ...... he would NOT bit first.
> The bite inhubbition your talking about is basic interaction, a dog with little aggression in them will not try to dominate just touch and engage. The dog with aggression will try to always be ontop - though if you have ... as i keep on saying "control of your dog" (no matter what breed) It shouldnt even need to get to that stage. A simple "No" is all that it SHOULD take.


This is my problem, you are happy to make the link from dog to child, but not child to dog?
You will talk about your dog not biting children, but not about your child hurting the dog?


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> please read above post.
> and I do hope nobody follows you, i never drew any link between biting a child and another dog - the link I posted was put there as we are talking about biting and it being condoned.
> I would not be constantly telling my dog off for defending itself - but I wouldnt be putting it 1) in situations where it needed to 2) id have him well rounded so he knows who to stay clear off .i.e by my side 3) if he was bitten id expect him to bite back though no ...... he would NOT bit first.
> The bite inhubbition your talking about is basic interaction, a dog with little aggression in them will not try to dominate just touch and engage. The dog with aggression will try to always be ontop - though if you have ... as i keep on saying "control of your dog" (no matter what breed) It shouldnt even need to get to that stage. A simple "No" is all that it SHOULD take.


I agree with all you've said in this post, so I'm a bit confused about what we're arguing about 

We have all agreed that a nervous dog should not be put in situations it can't cope with.

We have all agreed that a well-socialised dog is au fait enough with doggy manners that bites/nips would be unnecessary.

However, if dog A, with no doggy manners, is hassling dog B, then dog B may well feel, when his "back off" signals are ignored by dog A, that a nip is in order. We aren't talking true FIGHTING here; nobody is saying that fighting is acceptable!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Goodvic.... your reply is far to long to quote and taken far too personally. Do you have a bad tempered dog that you cant control and are simply making excuses for it or something?
My post that you quoted was at dogs in general. NOT your specific dog. You seem to have taken it to heart.?:closedeyes:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> This is my problem, you are happy to make the link from dog to child, but not child to dog?
> You will talk about your dog not biting children, but not about your child hurting the dog?


If a dog hurts a child it gets put down. thats it. I didnt think there was anything to discuss here?

and before you all jump on this, this is if a good correction doesnt work. Or it simply doesnt want the bane sitting on its bed (or something equally as trivial)

corr


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

seems like theres a lot of usefull owners on this site lol .... my next dogs a nippy Rottie. Hope you all dont mind - I will be a good owner honestly!! Its just that he will like telling other dogs "hey ive only got teeth and I want you to have a look".


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> If a dog hurts a child it gets put down. thats it. I didnt think there was anything to discuss here?


But you think it is ok for children to have no respect for dogs, how would you feel if your child killed your dog being overplayful?
I think in some situations the dogs are always blammed and it just isn't fair.:thumbdown:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> OP'S DOG IS NOT FIGHTING BUT DEFENDING!!!
> 
> Why can't you understand that, you want a submissive dog? That will let people do whatever they want to it because you want it that way.
> 
> I see you didn't bother to respond to my previous post!! :thumbdown:


Ok so your not condoning dog fighting but you are condoning a dog getting bitten because of an overly nervous dog.

This doesnt make sense - and is just an excuse for not sorting any problems the dog has out. Whether it is a nip or a bit, the nervous dog will one day meet an un nervous dog and come off worse. Katie and Cody have good fun wish the the best


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie and Cody ,,, you do like your immaginings dont you. Im not going to entertain your what could be questions. Stick to the point luv


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> Ok so your not condoning dog fighting but you are condoning a dog getting bitten because of an overly nervous dog.
> 
> This doesnt make sense - and is just an excuse for not sorting any problems the dog has out. Whether it is a nip or a bit, the nervous dog will one day meet an un nervous dog and come off worse. Katie and Cody have good fun wish the the best


But nobody is saying that a nervous dog nipping is OK! But it IS the way dogs interact with each other sometimes. We are all agreeing that a NERVOUS dog need help not to be nervous. We all agree that if a nervous dog is put in a situation where another dog causes him to feel he needs to nip, it is the fault of a) The nervous dog's owner (who should have recalled him and engaged him when another dog hove into view, and/or asked the owner of the other dog to keep it away) and b) The owner of the dog who is hassling the nervous one, for not keeping their own dog under control until they've ascertained that it's OK to let them play.

Nobody is CONDONING it.

BUT you cannot equate a minor nip in defence to a full-on attack. Some dogs have far worse tussles, with lots of noisy and alarming growling and wrestling, while sorting out who is "boss" among themselves, and come away with no wounds... and never argue again.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> seems like theres a lot of usefull owners on this site lol .... my next dogs a nippy Rottie. Hope you all dont mind - I will be a good owner honestly!! Its just that he will like telling other dogs "hey ive only got teeth and I want you to have a look".


Oh so sarcasm is your next tactic for making people agree with you, haha.
We are not talking about dogs fighting we are talking about dogs who have ignored anothers body language having a nip, I have never once said I would leave my dog to do this without stepping in and would never allow my dog get into a fight, and have bitten getting my dog out of this situation before. (My dog being the one that wouldn't leave the other alone may I add!)



james1 said:


> Ok so your not condoning dog fighting but you are condoning a dog getting bitten because of an overly nervous dog.
> 
> So your condoning bullying? An over excited dog being able to do what he/she wants to another and the nervous dog submitting to this...?!?! :yikes:
> 
> This doesnt make sense - and is just an excuse for not sorting any problems the dog has out. Whether it is a nip or a bit, the nervous dog will one day meet an un nervous dog and come off worse. Katie and Cody have good fun wish the the best


It is no excuse. Each owner does his/her best to deal with problems there dog may have, but they can't control other peoples dogs and actions can they?!?

Let me just point out, my dog has been trained to a very good standard he is very friendly and happy to play but also knows when he should leave another dog alone!!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> Katie and Cody ,,, you do like your immaginings dont you. Im not going to entertain your what could be questions. Stick to the point luv


Haha!
Firstly let me point out I am nobody's Luv, I am sticking to the point and it is you who is avoiding certain questions!
Such as making links to what if i dog were to bite a child, but not what if your child were to hurt a dog... im afraid in life, weather it be with humans, animals or bl**dy lamp poles its give and take!! Simple Mate!!!!!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

have to disagree again ...... i seem to have been the olny one posting a reply telling the owner to sort the dog out, nobody else has even mentioned that the nervousness in the dog should be corrected. Infact the oppisite is more than apparent.
I do appreciate what your saying about dogs tussling and no injuries come from it whatsoever though do you really want to take the risk? These tussles are not due to any one dog BUT if a nervous dog is doing it habbitually then it is down to 1 dog.
If you read the first page of replys (which is more than likely all that the OP has done seen as they havent rerplied) all of them are supporting it as normal and not to worry about behaviour ..... and throughout the rest of the thread has shown similar responses with only myself and one other saying its bad. :yikes:


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> have to disagree again ...... i seem to have been the olny one posting a reply telling the owner to sort the dog out, nobody else has even mentioned that the nervousness in the dog should be corrected. Infact the oppisite is more than apparent.
> I do appreciate what your saying about dogs tussling and no injuries come from it whatsoever though do you really want to take the risk? These tussles are not due to any one dog BUT if a nervous dog is doing it habbitually then it is down to 1 dog.
> If you read the first page of replys (which is more than likely all that the OP has done seen as they havent rerplied) all of them are supporting it as normal and not to worry about behaviour ..... and throughout the rest of the thread has shown similar responses with only myself and one other saying its bad. :yikes:


Yes, point taken. Personally I admit I got bogged down with the fact that nipping another dog in defence is not a reason to assume he will be aggressive in other situations, necessarily.

And I stand by my opinion that a dog who is NOT nervous, but who takes offence when other dogs ignore his first "P!ss off" signals, is being a normal dog.

I have, though, in later posts, made it clear that a truly nervous dog needs help and management.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> But you think it is ok for children to have no respect for dogs, how would you feel if your child killed your dog being overplayful?
> I think in some situations the dogs are always blammed and it just isn't fair.:thumbdown:





Colliepoodle said:


> Yes, point taken. Personally I admit I got bogged down with the fact that nipping another dog in defence is not a reason to assume he will be aggressive in other situations, necessarily.
> 
> And I stand by my opinion that a dog who is NOT nervous, but who takes offence when other dogs ignore his first "P!ss off" signals, is being a normal dog.
> 
> I have, though, in later posts, made it clear that a truly nervous dog needs help and management.


Well said Colliepoodle once again :thumbsup:
No one is disagreeing with the fact a nervous dog needs help James, but unfortunetly when you cannot control other peoples dogs and they persue your dog they are likely to defend... (This is dogs in general I am talking about!!)


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> Haha!
> Firstly let me point out I am nobody's Luv, I am sticking to the point and it is you who is avoiding certain questions!
> Such as making links to what if i dog were to bite a child, but not what if your child were to hurt a dog... im afraid in life, weather it be with humans, animals or bl**dy lamp poles its give and take!! Simple Mate!!!!!


ok to answer you
if a bog bites a human it gets put down (see earlier post for more detail)
if a dog bites a human because they have been taunted then give the human a slap.
Not rocket science darlin :eek6:

and dont be affraid . far to nicer weather


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> ok to answer you
> if a bog bites a human it gets put down (see earlier post for more detail)
> if a dog bites a human because they have been taunted then give the human a slap.
> Not rocket science darlin :eek6:
> ...


Ooo so it's Darlin now, why do you men always think you are right and us women know nothing :yikes:

My question wasn't if a dog nips a human after being taunted, it was 'you say aggressive/nervous should be dealt with - fair enough, but by taking there natural deffensive ways COMPLETLEY away if a child were to pick up a chi and sufficate it, or hurt it bad enough to cause serious damage/death - would this be ok? As i was saying it is give and take children should learn not to act like this around dogs, and dogs should be trained so that they are well balenced and generally happy!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sacasm is my only tactic when trying to get through thick headedness and that responsible ownership means having a dog do exactly as you say. I tried to give the example of the rottie to relate that if he were to "NIP" would you feel ok with this though it seems you have lost the point. could you now answer this question i wonder?



Katie&Cody said:


> Well said Colliepoodle once again :thumbsup:
> No one is disagreeing with the fact a nervous dog needs help James, but unfortunetly when you cannot control other peoples dogs and they persue your dog they are likely to defend... (This is dogs in general I am talking about!!)


I am saying the owner needs to sort the dog out. Maybe your sort the dog out and my sorth the dog out are on two completely different parallells. I think they are........ my dogs do what I ask them and if they dont they get trained.

You cant control other peoples dogs no Katie and Cody BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOCIABLE DOGS GETTING NIPPED FOR BEING SOCIABLE.


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## finoni9 (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your replies - I didn't think I would start such a debate!

Anyway, just to reiterate, Rocky loves saying hello to other dogs but after a few minutes he is ready to move on and do his own thing. The 2 dogs he nipped at kept following him so that was why he nipped AT them and then moved further away.

He loves children and he has never reacted like this with my very hyperactive 3 he old or my 13 he old, it's just been these 2 labs. Another time a staffy pinned him down " playing" and he didn't do it - maybe it's labs he doesn't like!

Will keep an eye on him and let you know what happens - thanks again.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> sacasm is my only tactic when trying to get through thick headedness and that responsible ownership means having a dog do exactly as you say. I tried to give the example of the rottie to relate that if he were to "NIP" would you feel ok with this though it seems you have lost the point. could you now answer this question i wonder?
> 
> I am saying the owner needs to sort the dog out. Maybe your sort the dog out and my sorth the dog out are on two completely different parallells. I think they are........ my dogs do what I ask them and if they dont they get trained.
> 
> You cant control other peoples dogs no Katie and Cody BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOCIABLE DOGS GETTING NIPPED FOR BEING SOCIABLE.


What you forget it a dog is not a human!! 
A dog to dog relationship should not be as YOU want it, of course controlling behavior and working with nervous dogs is a good idea. But if a dog does not want to be fussed, is on a lead walk for example and an over sociable dog comes up to him and will not back away imo he deserves a nip, this will be the fault of the over sociable dog's owner who was not able to keep his dog away from another!! This is all i have been saying.

You do not know how I deal with my dog, or what issues he has if any.
IMO no dog owner is perfect, that includes you so before throwing personal attacks i suggest YOU stick to the point, as I have been all along!:thumbsup:



finoni9 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies - I didn't think I would start such a debate!
> 
> Anyway, just to reiterate, Rocky loves saying hello to other dogs but after a few minutes he is ready to move on and do his own thing. The 2 dogs he nipped at kept following him so that was why he nipped AT them and then moved further away.
> 
> ...


finoni9 Please do not worry that your question has caused debate, debate is healthy on a Pet Forum and will always exsist when so many different owners are brought together.
What you are doing is perfectly ok, you are dealing with your dogs social problems by continuing to walk him, after bad experiences with dog owners who do not keep there over sociable dogs under control I am not suprised your dog is nervous. 
As others have said just keep an eye on him :thumbsup:


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

We are not talking about dogs being nipped for being sociable.

In a dog sense, being sociable means being able to read the body language of other dogs and if it can't, then that dog is UNDER socialised with other dogs.

In that case, the dog who can't read another dog's body language needs help just as much as the nipper! Even better, it needs to be playing and interacting with its owner rather than other dogs


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> We are not talking about dogs being nipped for being sociable.
> 
> In a dog sense, being sociable means being able to read the body language of other dogs and if it can't, then that dog is UNDER socialised with other dogs.
> 
> In that case, the dog who can't read another dog's body language needs help just as much as the nipper! Even better, it needs to be playing and interacting with its owner rather than other dogs


......:thumbsup:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> ......:thumbsup:


to recap



Nonnie said:


> If he is being harassed, then its perfectly acceptable for him to warn them off





cassie01 said:


> i agree too. those labs are being rude, if someone wouldnt leave me alone id punch em in the face, nothing wrong with sticking up for yourself.





goodvic2 said:


> I absolutely agree that if a dog does not heed a warning then it deserves to get nipped.





Katie&Cody said:


> I totally agree with the above, your dog is a lot smaller... he may be feeling nervous around other dogs, if he moves away from the labs and they pressure him/follow him they are ignoring his 'back of warning'





PoisonGirl said:


> I agree Katie. If your dog is trying to walk away from the other dog, then the other dog should get the hint and leave him alone. The other dog's owners should also be watching both dog's body language so that they can recall their dog the INSTANT your dog wants to move away. If they can't recall the dog at this point, it should not be off lead.xx





Colliepoodle said:


> And I'd ignore anyone who told you to "correct" a dog for warning another dog off - start telling them off for, for example, growling and you risk them skipping the warning and going straight for a bite.


These are just from the first page and theres no mention about training OR keeping thier own dog under control in any of the posts.

After all your confused examples and ramblings Katie and Cody. I am the only one who has stayed consistent throughout this tread instead of changing minds or agreeing but disagreeing and diverting the topic

all i have to say is whatevers treveors . Get that chip of your sholder Katie and Cody



james1 said:


> . You should be able to tell him to 'come' to stop issues like this, as when he gets away with it once he'll do it again. What is he like on the lead? if he does the same then get some corrections put in


My first post ......... on balance a bit better than all of the above


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

It is you with the chip Mate. 'Whatever trevors' <- ha! Had your male ego been hurt.

Just accept that basically we are all on the same length just dont fully agree with you. (and dont have to!)

We all have our own opinions, i still disagree with diciplining a dog who nips regardless, if an over sociable dogs comes bounding up and they're not interested in taking 'the hint' then it is their owners who are at fault.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

But from the OP, the dog IS under control. It is minding its own business and it is the OTHER dogs which aren't under control. Yes, the dog should come when it's called. If the other dogs continue harrassing, then the owner should put herself between her dog and others; if the dog feels the owner is going to protect it, it is less likely to nip.

This isn't a case of "right" and "wrong" - dogs don't do right and wrong in the sense that humans understand it. It felt it was justified in nipping the other dogs, which wouldn't go away when told. It needs more socialisation (as do the other dogs), and the owner needs to be more proactive when other dogs are around to avoid the situation occurring again. But the dog should not be told off.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I have just read through all of your posts Katie and there is not one mention of training if you could find me one id be amazed. You have spent more time blithering on about anything but the topic than you have answering it. Though now you have to try to act as if you had all the cards and were being _really helpful_ when infact you probably shouldnt be owning a dog. Im wondering if you watched the TV programme my dog is a weapon? It sounds as if at least judging by this



Katie&Cody said:


> .. im afraid in life, weather it be with humans, animals or bl**dy lamp poles its give and take!! Simple Mate!!!!!


you dont mind YOUR dog snapping as infact your affraid of buttercup and probably enjoy the fact that someone got attitude or willing to defend themselves. You shouldnt press your opinions on others and have them pick up your bad advice, simply because the crowd agrees with you doesnt make you right - and it doesnt make the OP any more knowledgable about how to handle the situation WHEN it arries again. I put WHEN in capitals just then as IT WILL happen again as you have not given her ANY clear advice other than yes its fine dont worry about it.



Katie&Cody said:


> now if other dogs bully him in this manor, or are over playfull he wil nip them and let them know they need to back of. I am ready to step in if things get nasty and if he were to go up and bite a dog out of nastyness he would get a stern telling off and be leashed. Overplayful dogs are sometimes the worst dogs to have, but why should nervous ones be leashed because of this - nervous dogs need help to build confidence and this included off lead walking!


NERVOUS DOGS SHOULD BE LEASHED AS IT CAUSES PROBLEMS~ (but that is advice you clearly dont understand, and any amount of me saying get it socialised/get it trained is obvously so far from the mark it does need to be said lol) 
edit: and I hope you can see the inconsistency in your postings

As far a hurting my ego - whatever trevors was a sarcastic remark aimed at showing how silly your being though as pointed your a bit thick headed ... though you didnt seem to mind me calling you this???

Babe:drool:


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> I have just read through all of your posts Katie and there is not one mention of training if you could find me one id be amazed. You have spent more time blithering on about anything but the topic than you have answering it. Though now you have to try to act as if you had all the cards and were being _really helpful_ when infact you probably shouldnt be owning a dog. Im wondering if you watched the TV programme my dog is a weapon? It sounds as if at least judging by this you dont mind YOUR dog snapping as infact your affraid of buttercup and probably enjoy the fact that someone got attitude or willing to defend themselves. You shouldnt press your opinions on others and have them pick up your bad advice, simply because the crowd agrees with you doesnt make you right - and it doesnt make the OP any more knowledgable about how to handle the situation WHEN it arries again. I put WHEN in capitals just then as IT WILL happen again as you have not given her ANY clear advice other than yes its fine dont worry about it.
> NERVOUS DOGS SHOULD BE LEASHED AS IT CAUSES PROBLEMS~ (but that is advice you clearly dont understand, and any amount of me saying get it socialised/get it trained is obvously so far from the mark it does need to be said lol)
> edit: and I hope you can see the inconsistency in your postings
> As far a hurting my ego - whatever trevors was a sarcastic remark aimed at showing how silly your being though as pointed your a bit thick headed ... though you didnt seem to mind me calling you this???
> ...


You really are a j*rk!! And how dare you say I shouldn't own a dog - you know absolutley nothing about me... I am anything but a person who would use there dog as a weapon!
I never once disagreed with you in saying nervous dogs should not be leashed, infact I havent commented on that as far as I am aware? I am talking about over sociable dogs approaching when they are not wanted...!!!
From the start I have said I DO NOT AGREE with dogs being taught to be aggresive and if you read some of my threads on pit balls you will see this ! :thumbdown: What I actually said was a dog deffending itself when required is different to it fighting!!
OP can take what she wants from my posts, as she will from yours and everyone elses, but I am free to speak as I wish without any regard for you.

I think you need to go and grow up and accept that not everyone in the world will not agree with what you say!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> I totally agree with the above, your dog is a lot smaller... he may be feeling nervous around other dogs, if he moves away from the labs and they pressure him/follow him they are ignoring his 'back of warning'
> 
> James1 & M - *I agree aggresiveness when first meeting other dogs should be corrected*, but when dog walks away surely he is letting the other dogs know he isn't interested and to leave him alone? Would you not agree





Katie&Cody said:


> I think you may have missed the OP's point, her dog is nervous but friendly...other dogs (off lead) that are over excited keep coming up to him and persuing him when it is not wanted. This does not make her dog aggresive...?! Why should it have to be persued, sniffed, pulled about and followed if it doesn't want to be?
> 
> With regards to children/humans - *yes baring teeth etc should be corrected but then children also should respect that when a dog walks away they shouldn't follow. I have never stroked a dog, ever without first asking if it was ok to touch, if they moved away so did i! Simple!*
> 
> Just because they are not human doesn't mean they shouldn't have their right to space, I wouldn't like someone following me if I didn't want it and it is no different in my opinion.





Katie&Cody said:


> Nature says dogs cannot talk, they use body language to communicate, why should you take that away from them?
> *If a persistant male came up to me and stated talking, and I didn't like his tone if he didn't back off I could walk away and if followed I would defend myself...IMPO this is what a dog is doing.
> *
> *THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I WENT OFF TOPIC - AND I WAS GIVING A COMPARISON!*
> ...





Katie&Cody said:


> Well said Colliepoodle once again :thumbsup:
> *No one is disagreeing with the fact a nervous dog needs help* James, but unfortunetly when you cannot control other peoples dogs and they persue your dog they are likely to defend... (This is dogs in general I am talking about!!)





Katie&Cody said:


> Ooo so it's Darlin now, why do you men always think you are right and us women know nothing :yikes:
> 
> My question wasn't if a dog nips a human after being taunted, it was *'you say aggressive/nervous should be dealt with - fair enough,* but by taking there natural deffensive ways COMPLETLEY away if a child were to pick up a chi and sufficate it, or hurt it bad enough to cause serious damage/death - would this be ok? As i was saying it is give and take children should learn not to act like this around dogs, and dogs should be trained so that they are well balenced and generally happy!





Katie&Cody said:


> What you forget it a dog is not a human!!
> A dog to dog relationship should not be as YOU want it, *of course controlling behavior and working with nervous dogs is a good idea*. But if a dog does not want to be fussed, is on a lead walk for example and an over sociable dog comes up to him and will not back away imo he deserves a nip, this will be the fault of the over sociable dog's owner who was not able to keep his dog away from another!! This is all i have been saying.


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I dare say anything, its not like your going to agree with a male shovanist pig now is it :thumbsup:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

James - see above in nearlly every one of my posts I said how training could be needed!

I didn't witther on about other topics, I stayed on topic and used comparrisons helping 'thick minded' (as you called me) people to understand what I was saying...looks like you didn't have much look with that anyway!

:thumbdown:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> I dare say anything, its not like your going to agree with a male shovanist pig now is it :thumbsup:


You said it...how many one liners have you come out with now, Darling, Luv & Babe - getting a bit bored with it now - hardly original.


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> I dare say anything, its not like your going to agree with a male shovanist pig now is it :thumbsup:


It's "chauvinist" :closedeyes:


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> You said it...how many one liners have you come out with now, Darling, Luv & Babe - getting a bit bored with it now - hardly original.


ok chick try not to frett now :laugh:


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> It's "chauvinist" :closedeyes:


thanks never really needed to use it before


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> It's "chauvinist" :closedeyes:


Haha bless!!
Male ego dented just that bit more. :thumbsup:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> thanks never really needed to use it before


It's hard admitting these things...


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> I think you may have missed the OP's point, her dog is nervous but friendly...other dogs (off lead) that are over excited keep coming up to him and persuing him when it is not wanted. This does not make her dog aggresive...?! Why should it have to be persued, sniffed, pulled about and followed if it doesn't want to be?


Kate i hate do have to disagree with you on that part....nervousness does and can make him aggressive and how he is reacting is aggressive. 
Im not saying a dog should not be allowed to warn another dog off, but its the way he is "warning" that is wrong. Dogs warn in a way that doesn't show aggression but because he is nervous and not sociable, he doesn't know the correct way to warn other dogs off.


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Kate i hate do have to disagree with you on that part....nervousness does and can make him aggressive and how he is reacting is aggressive.
> Im not saying a dog should not be allowed to warn another dog off, but its the way he is "warning" that is wrong. Dogs warn in a way that doesn't show aggression but because he is nervous and not sociable, he doesn't know the correct way to warn other dogs off.


You missed a few posts after that I think :thumbsup:
Her dog has backed away, growled...what next is he supposed to do?
Im sure dogs know there body language better than we do...
But atleast you put it nicer and didn't stick a 'Darling, Babe, or Honey at the end of your post. Lol


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sweetie it didnt growl stop trying to defend yourself. It nipped because it doesnt like being approached

thick headed with a womanly cherry ontop if were now scoring 'brownie' points, no pun intended, just incase you want to go off topic again.

miiiaaaw


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> sweetie it didnt growl stop trying to defend yourself. It nipped because it doesnt like being approached
> 
> thick headed with a womanly cherry ontop if were now scoring 'brownie' points, no pun intended, just incase you want to go off topic again.
> 
> miiiaaaw


About a month ago - Rocky was saying hello to 2 labradors but after a few minutes, he had had enough and went off to "sniff the grass" but the labs wouldn't leave him alone (just sniffing at him) and he bared his teeth at them and then moved away. The followed him and continued to sniff his and he tried to "nip" one of them.

Baring teeth usually goes hand in hand with a growl - it's hardly smiling now is it?

I never went off topic in the first place...ooo where did cherrys come into it? Is that you off topic again? As for thick headed, haha!! Yeah, you think what you want..


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

its hardly a grolw either but your missing what ManniMancunian is saying along with myself.

the owner needs to either train or socialise the dog, and not simply have people like you say yes its fine what else is it supposed to do - and feel happy that they have a regular dog.

Im not going to guestemate the potential knock on effects of not correcting it will have .
Though it need to get sorted and you have to stop beating around the bush. No pun intended again 


is a sweetie ok then? i think that was a pass?


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> its hardly a grolw either but your missing what ManniMancunian is saying along with myself.
> 
> the owner needs to either train or socialise the dog, and not simply have people like you say yes its fine what else is it supposed to do - and feel happy that they have a regular dog.
> 
> ...


As you would have seen in my previous post, I have on more than one occasion said the dog requires training. 
Sweetie? You think that's original - i feel sorry for your current/prespective partners if thats how you woo them...!


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

im being chauvanistic muffin, you think im trying to woo you???

you havent said anything about training untill about page 8. That is what has gotten on my goat with you. accept it that im right .... even if i am a man,.:sad:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> I totally agree with the above, your dog is a lot smaller... he may be feeling nervous around other dogs, if he moves away from the labs and they pressure him/follow him they are ignoring his 'back of warning'
> 
> James1 & M - I agree aggresiveness when first meeting other dogs should be corrected, but when dog walks away surely he is letting the other dogs know he isn't interested and to leave him alone? Would you not agree


My first comment on page 1 says aggressive behavior should be corrected?!?
Did you miss that cherry?



james1 said:


> im being chauvanistic muffin, you think im trying to woo you???
> 
> Oh ok, were onto cakes now?
> 
> you havent said anything about training untill about page 8. That is what has gotten on my goat with you. accept it that im right .... even if i am a man,.:sad:


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

well tinkerbell it looks like by quoting a man... youve actually gotten something right :dita:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> well tinkerbell it looks like by quoting a man... youve actually gotten something right :dita:


I didn't quote what you said, I agreed that some types of aggressive bahaviour should be dealt with.

You gotten over yourself now? Tinkerbell...yeah right?! Id run a mile...


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

cool. Shalom

cutiepie


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Yawn!
Bored of you now Im afraid.


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> im being chauvanistic muffin, you think im trying to woo you???
> 
> you havent said anything about training untill about page 8. That is what has gotten on my goat with you. accept it that im right .... even if i am a man,.:sad:


It's "chauvinistic" :closedeyes:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> It's "chauvinistic" :closedeyes:


hehehe :thumbsup:


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

was bored 4 hours ago but its a mans duty to persist in the face of danger


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

james1 said:


> was bored 4 hours ago but its a mans duty to persist in the face of danger


I think you two doth protesteth-eth too much-eth.

Get a room


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> You missed a few posts after that I think :thumbsup:
> Her dog has backed away, growled...what next is he supposed to do?
> Im sure dogs know there body language better than we do...
> But atleast you put it nicer and didn't stick a 'Darling, Babe, or Honey at the end of your post. Lol


Crikey , i think i did miss a few posts lol.....i know what your saying but i stick to what i said....he walked away after a few mins and then when they came over again "sniffing" he growled/snarled whatever....THATS THE BAD PART.....dogs sniff to say hello just like we hug or shake hands so he shouldn't growl just cuz he's being sniffed, thats aggression and plain being un-sociable!
I don't want to get caught in the crossfire of passion  but my opinion is that he is being un-sociable and its definetly not acceptable for him to growl just because he cant be bothered being sniffed. 
At the end of the day we are all speculating on how these other dogs acted, they may have been dominant, they may not, but from the sounds of what THEY were doing, its no reason for the dog to act aggressively....and as ive already said, snapping/growling/snarling should not occur as a warning for not wanting to be bothered.


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, ManniMancunian, inasmuch as none of us were actually there, and were therefore unable to see WHAT the dog's body language was like. We don't know whether he gave off very strong "go away" signals (in which case the other dogs were being ill-mannered in persisting) or whether he really DID simply nip them for simply sniffing.

Anyhoo, I've got bored with the whole thing now and am far more interested in the "Will they, won't they", "love/hate" manner of James' and Katie's posts to each other. It's better than Eastenders :biggrin:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Crikey , i think i did miss a few posts lol.....i know what your saying but i stick to what i said....he walked away after a few mins and then when they came over again "sniffing" he growled/snarled whatever....THATS THE BAD PART.....dogs sniff to say hello just like we hug or shake hands so he shouldn't growl just cuz he's being sniffed, thats aggression and plain being un-sociable!
> I don't want to get caught in the crossfire of passion  but my opinion is that he is being un-sociable and its definetly not acceptable for him to growl just because he cant be bothered being sniffed.
> At the end of the day we are all speculating on how these other dogs acted, they may have been dominant, they may not, but from the sounds of what THEY were doing, its no reason for the dog to act aggressively....and as ive already said, snapping/growling/snarling should not occur as a warning for not wanting to be bothered.


At this point I am growling at James - does that make me unsociable, lol!!
Passion, what did I miss? Other than a few unoriginal names...?

Are you saying that a dog SHOULD be sniffed and played with when they dont want to be?! I dont get this, Im not disagreeing that a nervous dog needs training but I don't think a well balenced dog should have to play with another if it doesnt want to...some dogs are unsociable and prefer the odd sniff before wondering on and don't want to get into a full kiss chase game...


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> was bored 4 hours ago but its a mans duty to persist in the face of danger


You think im danger?? Lol



Colliepoodle said:


> I think you two doth protesteth-eth too much-eth.
> 
> Get a room





Colliepoodle said:


> Anyhoo, I've got bored with the whole thing now and am far more interested in the "Will they, won't they", "love/hate" manner of James' and Katie's posts to each other. It's better than Eastenders :biggrin:


PMSL!! Ur so funny Kate


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> At this point I am growling at James - does that make me unsociable, lol!!
> Passion, what did I miss? Other than a few unoriginal names...?
> 
> Are you saying that a dog SHOULD be sniffed and played with when they dont want to be?! I dont get this, Im not disagreeing that a nervous dog needs training but I don't think a well balenced dog should have to play with another if it doesnt want to...some dogs are unsociable and prefer the odd sniff before wondering on and don't want to get into a full kiss chase game...


Sorry, i didnt mean your are both passionate about each other lol, i just meant because its getting heated 
I'm not saying they should be sniffed and played with if they don't want to, but when they don't want to they shouldn't growl/snap/snarl to let the other dog know to go away, its like us saying assertively that we want to be left alone, but we would not shout or hit threaten someone to leave us alone.
The fact he walked off, in the dog world, does not mean he doesn't want to be bothered, it just means he is simply walking off, thats why the other 2 dogs followed him and sniffed again. 
Like i said, we are all going off the info from the original post, and from what was said it wasn't clear EXACTLY how the other dogs behaved.
If they followed him and interacted again but with a dominant posture then the dog on the receiving end has every right to get a bit pissed off, but we are basing our opinions on that these other dogs just followed and sniffed again....if that was the case, the nervous dog re-acted un-necessarily.


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, ManniMancunian, inasmuch as none of us were actually there, and were therefore unable to see WHAT the dog's body language was like. We don't know whether he gave off very strong "go away" signals (in which case the other dogs were being ill-mannered in persisting) or whether he really DID simply nip them for simply sniffing.
> 
> Anyhoo, I've got bored with the whole thing now and am far more interested in the "Will they, won't they", "love/hate" manner of James' and Katie's posts to each other. It's better than Eastenders :biggrin:


well ive not been turned down yet! what do you think creampuff

:aureola::ihih::ihih:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Sorry, i didnt mean your are both passionate about each other lol, i just meant because its getting heated
> I'm not saying they should be sniffed and played with if they don't want to, but when they don't want to they shouldn't growl/snap/snarl to let the other dog know to go away, its like us saying assertively that we want to be left alone, but we would not shout or hit threaten someone to leave us alone.
> The fact he walked off, in the dog world, does not mean he doesn't want to be bothered, it just means he is simply walking off, thats why the other 2 dogs followed him and sniffed again.
> Like i said, we are all going off the info from the original post, and from what was said it wasn't clear EXACTLY how the other dogs behaved.
> ...


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> well ive not been turned down yet! what do you think creampuff
> 
> :aureola::ihih::ihih:


With chat ups like that, hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahaha
Sorry let me just pick myself up from the floor...ROTFL


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

[/QUOTE]Heated.. 
I agree witht he majority of what you said - mostly the fact we weren't there and OP has been flooded with info now  :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Yea i agree lol, ive learnt not to argue on ere now though, it only turns sour


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Heated.. 
I agree witht he majority of what you said - mostly the fact we weren't there and OP has been flooded with info now  :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Yea i agree lol, ive learnt not to argue on ere now though, it only turns sour [/QUOTE]

Unless your james who makes a joke out of everything...  Men...


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Heated..
> I agree witht he majority of what you said - mostly the fact we weren't there and OP has been flooded with info now  :thumbsup:


Yea i agree lol, ive learnt not to argue on ere now though, it only turns sour [/QUOTE]

Unless your james who makes a joke out of everything...  Men...[/QUOTE]

You can't generalize us all Sweet Muffin (i'm joking)


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Yea i agree lol, ive learnt not to argue on ere now though, it only turns sour


Unless your james who makes a joke out of everything...  Men...[/QUOTE]

You can't generalize us all Sweet Muffin (i'm joking)[/QUOTE]

Strange that, even that sounds better coming from you. Lol


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Lol .......


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Lol .......


I think he is jelous, offline now. Lol!! :yikes:


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Lol.....i think he was just being passionate and it got a bit heated but ya handled it well Sweet Muffin  Its hard to not get offensive if ya pissed off


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Lol.....i think he was just being passionate and it got a bit heated but ya handled it well Sweet Muffin  Its hard to not get offensive if ya pissed off


You cheeky monkey :thumbsup:
He's gone to cool off..lol!!
Xxx


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> Heated..
> I agree witht he majority of what you said - mostly the fact we weren't there and OP has been flooded with info now  :thumbsup:


Yea i agree lol, ive learnt not to argue on ere now though, it only turns sour [/QUOTE]

Unless your james who makes a joke out of everything...  Men...[/QUOTE]

im not chasing ... more stolling

have you just dissed me petal? Good things come to those who wait fairy cake.


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Im not chasing ... more stolling

have you just dissed me petal? Good things come to those who wait fairy cake. [/QUOTE]

Flowers now is it Daisy?


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

must be a southern thing


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Well I have to say I'm gripped by all this.

I insist on being bridesmaid. I shall scatter rose petals, wear the required revolting dress and cop off with the best man :closedeyes:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

james1 said:


> must be a southern thing


You said Petal...?


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Well I have to say I'm gripped by all this.
> 
> I insist on being bridesmaid. I shall scatter rose petals, wear the required revolting dress and cop off with the best man :closedeyes:


That's ma girl, lol!!
ooo now im swooning, i wonder where it'll be? x
I insist on maid of honor..far too good to be a bridesmaid...
I wonder if manni will be best man.
PMSL!!!


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

I think you should insist on somewhere posh and swanky and expensive.


I hope the best man isn't too minging


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> I think you should insist on somewhere posh and swanky and expensive.
> 
> I hope the best man isn't too minging


PMSL! J's gone quiet... were scaring him off.


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> PMSL! J's gone quiet... were scaring him off.


Oh. Shame. I was looking forward to wearing something that didn't have dog treats in the pockets (even my bathrobe has dog treats in the pockets lol).

Looks like it's all over then. Not meant to be. Ships that pass in the wossname and all that.

*sniffle*

Excuse me... *HONNNNK*... I hate goodbyes....


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Oh. Shame. I was looking forward to wearing something that didn't have dog treats in the pockets (even my bathrobe has dog treats in the pockets lol).
> 
> Looks like it's all over then. Not meant to be. Ships that pass in the wossname and all that.
> 
> ...


*Giggles*

*Rolls on the floor in fits of giggles*

*Then realises that Iv been forum dumped and CrIeS!!*

!?!?Ping?!?! 
Idea... who needs a man to get married... ill marry...hmmm...what can i marry?


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> *Giggles*
> 
> *Rolls on the floor in fits of giggles*
> 
> ...


Now now. Don't take it personally! Better to have loved and lost and all that malarkey... it was short and turbulent and OK, it's over but at least you never had to find out what his socks smell like, or see him in the morning with eye-bogeys and tufty hair.

He can remain a lovely memory, all the sweeter for the brevity...

*sniffle*

Ooh I'm filling up again :crying:


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

.... sorry, OP - we've gone completely off topic.

I have had Pimms :blush:

I'll be going now....


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

im gay and im pround actually :mad2:


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

that shut you raving birds up :lol::lol:


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Wow, was beginning to suspect James1 was actually Simon Cowell in disguise. Clearly all the perceived chauvinism is thinly veiled campness. Thats ruined a perfectly bizarre thread,.
I demand more inappropriate banter on my 'pooter!!


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Get a room


I agree! :laugh:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Now now. Don't take it personally! Better to have loved and lost and all that malarkey... it was short and turbulent and OK, it's over but at least you never had to find out what his socks smell like, or see him in the morning with eye-bogeys and tufty hair.
> 
> He can remain a lovely memory, all the sweeter for the brevity...
> 
> ...


PMSL!! Ah well I got over him - bradd pitt visited me in my dreams - he was the perfect shoulder to cry on, lol!! :thumbsup:



james1 said:


> im gay and im pround actually :mad2:


:thumbsup: Iv been saved by Men for once!! yay!!



catz4m8z said:


> Wow, was beginning to suspect James1 was actually Simon Cowell in disguise. Clearly all the perceived chauvinism is thinly veiled campness. Thats ruined a perfectly bizarre thread,.
> I demand more inappropriate banter on my 'pooter!!


PMSL!! hehe!! He is a bit like Simon Cowell actually...but hmm, simon does have a bit of a sexy side don't you think, when he gives that little wink makes me go all weak at the knees lol!!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Just wanted to say guys, even tho this thread got a bit heated with peoples views - im glad between us we managed to sort it out, and make it a bit of fun!! :thumbsup:

On a serious note, I hope the OP has managed to take something from what we've said.


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> I think you should insist on somewhere posh and swanky and expensive.
> 
> I hope the best man isn't too minging


 How very dare you!


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> How very dare you!


:thumbsup:


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> How very dare you!


Don't worry Manni - once I've had a few I'm not fussy


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Don't worry Manni - once I've had a few I'm not fussy


Cmon i'm hardly Roach from "People under the stairs" :laugh:


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Cmon i'm hardly Roach from "People under the stairs" :laugh:


Maybe not but I am - you might want to have a few yourself


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Maybe not but I am - you might want to have a few yourself


Lol, i doubt it....actually, good point! I aint seen pics of you....i'm on ere for all the world and his dog to see. What ya hiding gurl???


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Lol, i doubt it....actually, good point! I aint seen pics of you....i'm on ere for all the world and his dog to see. What ya hiding gurl???


Lol!!
Well you all seen me 

Oh boy, the tables have turned... it eastenders between u 2 now aint it!! :thumbsup:


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Can anyone even remember what the fudgin' heck this thread was even about?
I woz supposed to be working last night instead I was too enthralled by the will they wont they Ross Rachelness of it all!


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Can anyone even remember what the fudgin' heck this thread was even about?
> I woz supposed to be working last night instead I was too enthralled by the will they wont they Ross Rachelness of it all!


:laugh: Yea i forgot too actually......now i wanna see ColliPoodle...show me!!! show me!!!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

*kinda wishing she posts a piccy of Gollum from LOTR!!*
:yikes:


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> *kinda wishing she posts a piccy of Gollum from LOTR!!*
> :yikes:


:eek6: Hopefully not!


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> *kinda wishing she posts a piccy of Gollum from LOTR!!*
> :yikes:


PMSL!!

At least it has turned into an 'escape' thread - a bit of a laff, lol!! x


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> PMSL!!
> 
> At least it has turned into an 'escape' thread - a bit of a laff, lol!! x


Better than the way the thread was going near to the end weren't it
Gotta spice it up a bit 
Awww its so sunny n i'm sat ere in work, tut!! :closedeyes:


----------



## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Sure is!!
What do you do for work?
Im chillin at home - Sunday is our cleaning day (i knew i should have got a smaller house!! ) so keep popping off to do bits... :thumbsup:


----------



## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Sure is!!
> What do you do for work?
> Im chillin at home - Sunday is our cleaning day (i knew i should have got a smaller house!! ) so keep popping off to do bits... :thumbsup:


lol I luurrrve cleaning lol, hate an un-tidy house 
I'm a PA for the Manchester Evening News 
Ur credit control? Fiesty! lol


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> lol I luurrrve cleaning lol, hate an un-tidy house
> I'm a PA for the Manchester Evening News
> Ur credit control? Fiesty! lol


Too right, giv us ya money.. Lol!!
i have loads of jobs since leaving school, purchase ledger, PA to 4 building contracts manager - very tough, childcard and now credit control :thumbsup:
I do like cleaning, and love a nice house...but it is a fairly big house...i used to live in a very small 1 bed flat... :eek6:


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Too right, giv us ya money.. Lol!!
> i have loads of jobs since leaving school, purchase ledger, PA to 4 building contracts manager - very tough, childcard and now credit control :thumbsup:
> I do like cleaning, and love a nice house...but it is a fairly big house...i used to live in a very small 1 bed flat... :eek6:


Yea me too lol...are ya ready? lol......i left school and 3 years later i qualified as a hairdresser (i'm straight before u ask lol), after leaving hairdressing full time i went onto become a roof cladder and worked on the Manchester City stadium for 2 years, studied and gained a degree in Psychology which i never went into professionaly but did it for an edge on my Dog Psychology studies, i also trained and passed as a part 1 scaffolder, worked as a profesional dancer for a club in Greece, worked as an account manager for Chubb but hated it and left to do what i do now 
Bit of a mix int it lol
Ive also got a little gardening business on the side and will be starting another little business soon which i'm working on at the mo, when i have a bloody spare minute lol


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Yea me too lol...are ya ready? lol......i left school and 3 years later i qualified as a hairdresser (i'm straight before u ask lol), after leaving hairdressing full time i went onto become a roof cladder and worked on the Manchester City stadium for 2 years, studied and gained a degree in Psychology which i never went into professionaly but did it for an edge on my Dog Psychology studies, i also trained and passed as a part 1 scaffolder, worked as a profesional dancer for a club in Greece, worked as an account manager for Chubb but hated it and left to do what i do now
> Bit of a mix int it lol
> Ive also got a little gardening business on the side and will be starting another little business soon which i'm working on at the mo, when i have a bloody spare minute lol


Wow wee not that is an impressive CV, so come on dish the dirt on the new business...


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Wow wee not that is an impressive CV, so come on dish the dirt on the new business...


Well.....lol...basically its a business that delivers Sunday dinners to residential areas. Sounds basic but in Manchester there is a niche in the market as the only places that deliver any foods remotely the same are high priced and charge high delivery prices or will only deliver bulk orders. 
Its simple but think how many people cant be bothered slaving over a hot stove all Sunday preparing a good Sunday roast, kids swinging around there ankles, or hung over from the night before etc etc....its a big business idea that can take off easily and i've done my research so theres a very very low risk. 
My best friends Mum is an expert on Carribean food and thats something we'll bring into the menu once i'm established, aswell as Chilli's and Potato Ash etc etc. Theres no places withing 20-30 miles of us that deliver those types of home cooked dishes so definetly a money maker. Ive already had loads of registered interest in the Sunday dinner idea and i have cooks on hand aswell as the means to gain the correct food licence's.
I'm calling it "The Roast with the Most"


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Well.....lol...basically its a business that delivers Sunday dinners to residential areas. Sounds basic but in Manchester there is a niche in the market as the only places that deliver any foods remotely the same are high priced and charge high delivery prices or will only deliver bulk orders.
> Its simple but think how many people cant be bothered slaving over a hot stove all Sunday preparing a good Sunday roast, kids swinging around there ankles, or hung over from the night before etc etc....its a big business idea that can take off easily and i've done my research so theres a very very low risk.
> My best friends Mum is an expert on Carribean food and thats something we'll bring into the menu once i'm established, aswell as Chilli's and Potato Ash etc etc. Theres no places withing 20-30 miles of us that deliver those types of home cooked dishes so definetly a money maker. Ive already had loads of registered interest in the Sunday dinner idea and i have cooks on hand aswell as the means to gain the correct food licence's.
> I'm calling it "The Roast with the Most"


Can you deliever to me too?
Sounds like a great idea..:thumbsup: Quite the business man arn't u!! Lol


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Can you deliever to me too?
> Sounds like a great idea..:thumbsup: Quite the business man arn't u!! Lol


Well its only in Manchester unfortunately 
Told u its a good idea.....ive got customers already and i havent even started yet lol, i am a bit of a business man but i didn't have much as a child although my mum did her best, so it gives you the push to want more for yourself!
Plus i love my money as i'm sure everyone else does.

U finished cleaning yet then?


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

ManniMancunian said:


> Well its only in Manchester unfortunately
> Told u its a good idea.....ive got customers already and i havent even started yet lol, i am a bit of a business man but i didn't have much as a child although my mum did her best, so it gives you the push to want more for yourself!
> Plus i love my money as i'm sure everyone else does.
> 
> U finished cleaning yet then?


Good for you!! :thumbsup:
Your girls a lucky girl 
Nah, still got bits here and there to do...lol!!
Gunna pop to me mams for some grub...will be back on a bit later tho.x


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## ManniMancunian (May 27, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Good for you!! :thumbsup:
> Your girls a lucky girl
> Nah, still got bits here and there to do...lol!!
> Gunna pop to me mams for some grub...will be back on a bit later tho.x


She is...try telling her that tho lol 
Well ive had a Chicken and Sweetcorn buttie all day :drool:
Wont get my tea till bout 10 tonight 
Enjoy ya food, speak 2 ya soon x


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