# harness or collar ? muzzles ?



## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

hi all ive been looking a lot for the best thing to stat Tia on..what are the differences on walking,controlling with a harness or collar and least stressful and best for the dog .. also as she is a lab / staff cross and peoples perception isnt best for staffs should i use a muzzle from the off set on walks ? she hasn't been out yet as she is a bit late on her jabs , has her 2nd this weekend.

many thanks for any replies


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## koolchick (Apr 5, 2011)

Is she aggressive or picking things up that she shouldn't? If not I wouldn't use a muzzle as they would stop the dog protecting themselves if another dog attacked them. Also I'm much more wary of dogs with muzzles on than dogs without, as to me a muzzle indicates a dog is aggressive. That may be right or wrong but that is how I feel. For me muzzles would only be used if I felt my dog was a genuine danger to anyone or if it was the only way I could stop him eating stuff that would make him Ill.


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## zedder (Aug 21, 2013)

Muzzle training is great I have trained both mine with muzzles neither have aggression issues or eat undesirable things you never know when you might need to muzzle such as an emergency vet visit or in foreign countries and it can be really fun for the dog if you do it correctly.I ignore the negative attitude people have towards them quite honestly its a bit backward to presume anything about other people's dogs.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

I think a muzzle will be a good idea to keep Tia safe as she is half staff and with the DDA i need to make sure others know she cant bite , i have already encountered the oh my a staff ! when ive told friends what cross she is. I understand some people will be more weary but more and more people use them to stop the dogs eating poop etc then biting. Its just another thing that needs education. I just dont know if I should start her at this age . also harness ? as she will get stronger will it give me more control but will it stress her out ? but she already walks amazing round the garden on a lead.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it's always a good idea to train your dog to be comfortable in a muzzle but am not sure why you think it is necessary for her to wear one when out all the time


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

While I think muzzle training is a good idea for any dog, all dogs should be comfortable wearing a muzzle imo, I would absolutely not be muzzling a dog just for the sake of making other people feel better! And certainly not a puppy. Why get such a mix if you're so concerned over other peoples opinions of it?


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> While I think muzzle training is a good idea for any dog, all dogs should be comfortable wearing a muzzle imo, I would absolutely not be muzzling a dog just for the sake of making other people feel better! And certainly not a puppy. Why get such a mix if you're so concerned over other peoples opinions of it?


I rehomed a pup we were looking for our first dog and she came along so what breed she is for us didnt matter ..where we are a lot of people muzzle their bigger dogs and with the DDA laws a fair few more are using them . so for her safety yes i think it is a good idea.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Often you'll find that muzzling a dog will actually make people feel more nervous, since they perceive a muzzle to mean "I'm aggressive", even though some people just use them to prevent their dog from eating things they shouldn't. It's because of this that I really would not recommend muzzling your dog just to make other people feel safer - it often backfires. Sometimes non-dog people react the same way to halters, mistaking them for muzzles. 

As has already been pointed out, your dog will not be able to defend itself if it has a nasty encounter with another dog, if he's wearing a muzzle. 

For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with calling your dog a "Lab cross" if you think people are going to be a bit iffy if you say "Staffy". :smilewinkgrin: Everyone loves a Lab


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

The whole "dog can't defend himself" argument against muzzles puzzles me a little. I must admit when Kilo was attacked twice I am pleased that he didn't attempt any form of defence as it is far easier to remove one dog from a passive one than split up a dog fight where both are going for it. Horrendous to watch the attacks in progress but had he been fighting back or had Rudi joined in then both situations would have been so much worse. 

I am also certain that muzzled dogs can still do an awful lot of damage to other dogs - they just cannot get a bite in.

OP I wouldn't muzzle a lab cross just in case people don't like the dog - your best bet is to train and train so that she's no bother to anyone. I would, however train her to accept a muzzle as others have said in case one is needed in an emergency etc.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with muzzle training your girl, as others have said, so that it would be something you can use in future, if necessary.

However, we owned a Staffy girl until we lost her at fifteen and she was the sweetest and least aggressive dog I've ever known. Under no circumstances would we ever have made her wear a muzzle as routine, just to humour ignorant people who like to tar all Staffies with the same brush.

With all due respect OP, you yourself seem to be buying into that by assuming people will automatically be afraid of your girl because she's a Staffy cross.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

No I wouldn't muzzle a pup just to make other people feel better! Instead, train him good behaviours like not jumping up etc so he will make people feel better by being well behaved around them. Dogs don't need to be muzzled unless they are very certainly likely to bite and cause damage. This may actually cause fear in him as he cannot socialise with other dogs properly with a muzzle on as he may feel more threatened.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

people are afraid of staffs these days esp where i live in essex as unfounded as it maybe it is what it is, therefore if i think a muzzle may be a good idea as she gets bigger then obviously i will look into it which is the point of me asking on this forum . does anyone have ideas on harnesses ? I want her to be as comfortable as possible and i wondered what the difference is it this with harness or collar .


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I find it quite sad that a dog is going to be muzzled just because of what others think :nonod:

I think all dogs should be muzzle trained, but if you put the training in and don't put her into a position to cause anyone any issues then there will be no need for a muzzle..

Who cares what others think...so long as your dog is kept under control then there is nothing they can do...

I get people shouting abuse and pulling their kids away from me all the time (I'm on the Essex/Suffolk/Cambridgeshire border so not too far from you ) Not once have I thought about muzzling my boy "just because" I just make sure that we stay out of their way and get on with our day.

As for harnesses, check this thread out http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/323068-harness-thread.html


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

chell77 said:


> people are afraid of staffs these days esp where i live in essex as unfounded as it maybe it is what it is, therefore if i think a muzzle may be a good idea as she gets bigger then obviously i will look into it which is the point of me asking on this forum . does anyone have ideas on harnesses ? I want her to be as comfortable as possible and i wondered what the difference is it this with harness or collar .


A collar is fine, particularly for a bigger dog. Unless you use a harness with a front chest ring, I wouldn't use one as until you've trained a dog not to pull, they will just find it easier to pull against you.
If your dog is brought up to be well behaved, then people shouldn't have any reason to be afraid. Please don't use a muzzle for that reason.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Even as an adult I wouldn't muzzle her regularly unless she was reactive/aggressive/unpredictable with other people or animals. I can understand your logic but you may inadvertently perpetuate the "vicious" stereotype associated with Staffs and Staff crosses.
I do agree that muzzle training is a good idea for all dogs and I'd highly recommend the Baskerville Ultra muzzle.

A well-fitting harness is less likely to cause physical damage to your dog than a collar, but if she walks with little to no pulling/lunging and responds well to loose lead training then there's no urgent need. I prefer harnesses or a harness, collar and double-ended lead combination but there is never a one-size-fits all rule with dogs!


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Muzzling a dog will only enforce peoples perception of a breed. I have a staff and shes never been muzzled! 

I think its very odd that you feel you need to please others buy muzzling a dog when there is no need. How is that fair on the dog??


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

A muzzled dog can defend itself. Mine broke another dogs ribs while muzzled and had a dog his own size pinned and terrified underneath him. So sorry, I don't buy into the "muzzles are bad coz dog can't defend itself" I'm afraid. And to be honest I'd rather my dog not defend himself. That sounds awful but it is much, much easier to break up a fight quickly when you only need to worry about one dog. Most "attacks" are noise and slobber anyway.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

To me, it isn't really about whether muzzles are good or bad.

They are a definite must in some situations and can be of benefit in others.

What I find worrying here is that the OP appears to have already decided, when her dog is still a pup, that she will muzzle it, because that would be best for other people.

If anyone has reason to think their dog could be a threat to others dogs or even humans, then obviously, the dog should be muzzled, but give the poor thing a chance first.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

I dont know if its where i live as i live in a small town where there isnt really many if any status dogs , but everyone reads the papers and watches the telly and most have access to the net these days so i think ppl would judge no matter what town

so what im trying to say is , my pure bred staffie has made a lot of freinds in the short time ive had him , neally all dog walkers love him , weve got one with a shitzu wanting to take him home and look after him if we ever go on holiday , i firmly beleive ppl like him because he's a real charictor , hes so freindly with humans and dogs , i am carefull with him not to let him loose untill we know the other dog/owner etc , but i feel if i had got him and put a muzzle on him from the off i think the dog walkers would of avoided me because they would of assumed agh staffie with a muzzloe must be vicious , i also got him a lilac staffie leather collar and purple fleece harness , i tried to make him look as soft as poss , a muzzle can make a staff look very hard

my vet attually advised muzzling him at the start cause he used to eat poo , he does do it a bit but not half as bad as he was , i said to my vet are you for real with his breed , it will look like i have a vicious dog

i know where your coming from and are protecting your baby from any unwanted attension by the law , but i think you will make matters worse by muzzling , if i saw a staffie muzzled i would assume it was vicious even tho it could be for scavaging reasons

harness's , my boy has a fleece one specially made as he suffers harness rub i got it from here

Soft,Comfortable Fleece Dog Harnesses,Fleece Dog Collars For Every Dog


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> people are afraid of staffs these days esp where i live in essex as unfounded as it maybe it is what it is, therefore if i think a muzzle may be a good idea as she gets bigger then obviously i will look into it which is the point of me asking on this forum . does anyone have ideas on harnesses ? I want her to be as comfortable as possible and i wondered what the difference is it this with harness or collar .


I think your going to make things worse for yourself and your dog if you make her wear a muzzle and she doesn't need it  People will then assume that she is aggressive, and that's puts you both in the negative spotlight straight away. Give how young she is, you can't even really be sure as she matures if she is going to look anything like a staffy?

I think dogs should be muzzle trained as a matter of course, but I don't think a puppy or friendly adult dog should be muzzled just because you think people will judge you, if you were worried about the stigma attached to staffs why did you get one? I have Rottweilers, and I have never muzzled them because I don't need too people do judge breeds, and that's the drawn back of choosing certain breeds, but you shouldn't put a muzzle on her, because you are worried about what other people think, that's not fair on her...


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

I must say i am amazed at how negative so many people are ..I asked about muzzling I did not say I was going to or even going to as a pup ! again the same perception used against breeds of dogs is being used here knock on effect brought on from others that have not read what i wrote .. all this why did you get that breed of dog ! for god sake breed is nothing to me why would it be ? any dog under the DDA is at risk i want to help mine avoid that risk and no matter what training she has it will not change peoples perception as some of you have shown here.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

But Staffies are not classed as 'Dangerous Dogs', so I don't really understand why you keep mentioning that.

I'm sorry if you feel we're being negative, but to me, it's far more negative to consider muzzling your dog because of how you think others may see her.

She's not a dangerous dog. She doesn't need to be treated as such, in my opinion.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> I must say i am amazed at how negative so many people are ..I asked about muzzling I did not say I was going to or even going to as a pup ! again the same perception used against breeds of dogs is being used here knock on effect brought on from others that have not read what i wrote .. all this why did you get that breed of dog ! for god sake breed is nothing to me why would it be ? any dog under the DDA is at risk i want to help mine avoid that risk and no matter what training she has it will not change peoples perception as some of you have shown here.


Under DDA any dog is at risk if they are dangerous and out of control, Staffs are not part of the BSL, if you don't have a dangerous and out of control dog, why would you want people to think you have a dangerous dog? You are the only one looking at this in a negative why, her having to wear a muzzle with impact on her social interacting with dogs and people, you will turn your dog in to something she is not because of your negative thinking about a breed, she will not be able to socialise normally  that WILL effect her behaviour in the long run and it will be a negative impact... As everyine said you can muzzle train a dog, but they don't need to wear them outside unless they are a risk, you worded your post like she was going to wear them no matter what as she was a staff cross?


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Staffies are not under the DDA. Any dog of any breed can be dangerous just because a dog wares a muzzle does not protect it from anything to do with the law.

Are you worried she may be deemed as type?? I don't really understand where your coming from, with the muzzling thing?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Considering the breed of dog I own I think you are a hitting well below the mark there 

Also YOU asked


> also as she is a lab / staff cross and peoples perception isnt best for staffs should i use a muzzle from the off set on walks ?


Soooo, people answered...your answer is:

Yes muzzle train her....no, do not put a muzzle on just because of what others think.

That has *nothing* to do with any breed or the perception of them :huh:


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

would anyone like to show me where i said i was going to use a muzzle ? also where i have said i will muzzle her because of other people ?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> hi all ive been looking a lot for the best thing to stat Tia on..what are the differences on walking,controlling with a harness or collar and least stressful and best for the dog .. also as she is a lab / staff cross and *peoples perception isnt best for staffs should i use a muzzle from the off set on walks *? she hasn't been out yet as she is a bit late on her jabs , has her 2nd this weekend.
> 
> many thanks for any replies





chell77 said:


> *I think a muzzle will be a good idea to keep Tia safe as she is half staff and with the DDA i need to make sure others know she cant bite ,* i have already encountered the oh my a staff ! when ive told friends what cross she is. I understand some people will be more weary but more and more people use them to stop the dogs eating poop etc then biting. Its just another thing that needs education. I just dont know if I should start her at this age . also harness ? as she will get stronger will it give me more control but will it stress her out ? but she already walks amazing round the garden on a lead.





chell77 said:


> I rehomed a pup we were looking for our first dog and she came along so what breed she is for us didnt matter ..*where we are a lot of people muzzle their bigger dogs and with the DDA laws a fair few more are using them . so for her safety yes i think it is a good idea*.





chell77 said:


> *people are afraid of staffs these days esp where i live in essex as unfounded as it maybe it is what it is, therefore if i think a muzzle may be a good idea *as she gets bigger then obviously i will look into it which is the point of me asking on this forum . does anyone have ideas on harnesses ? I want her to be as comfortable as possible and i wondered what the difference is it this with harness or collar .





chell77 said:


> would anyone like to show me where i said i was going to use a muzzle ? also where i have said i will muzzle her because of other people ?


Ummm all of the above...


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

You have implied it throughout the thread... when asked for reasons why you want to muzzle you said it was because of other peoples perceptions....
Now if you had said "I plan to muzzle train her now and IF she shows any signs of any issues I will then use said muzzle" the replies would have been very different...

On forums we can only go by what you have said, not what you haven't..


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

yep re read all mine not once have I said i will muzzle her .. again other peoples perception not what i have actually written ..if i say its a good idea does not mean i will do it , if i was going to why would i ask others advice ? read my words not your perception ..


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> yep re read all mine not once have I said i will muzzle her .. again other peoples perception not what i have actually written ..if i say its a good idea does not mean i will do it , if i was going to why would i ask others advice ? read my words not your perception ..


Again as I did last time:

I think your going to make things worse for yourself and your dog if you make her wear a muzzle and she doesn't need it People will then assume that she is aggressive, and that's puts you both in the negative spotlight straight away. Give how young she is, you can't even really be sure as she matures if she is going to look anything like a staffy?

I think dogs should be muzzle trained as a matter of course, but I don't think a puppy or friendly adult dog should be muzzled just because you think people will judge you, if you were worried about the stigma attached to staffs why did you get one? I have Rottweilers, and I have never muzzled them because I don't need too people do judge breeds, and that's the drawn back of choosing certain breeds, but you shouldn't put a muzzle on her, because you are worried about what other people think, that's not fair on her..


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Really?

Are you saying that none of your posts imply that you are going to muzzle your dog because of what others think? Have you once mentioned that you will only muzzle if aggression is shown? Why bother asking a question when you don't seem to want answers?

If we had said "Yeah, yeah..best get those staffy beasts muzzled just in case" would that have been acceptable?


I'm out CBA with this.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

I am being a good owner by addressing the situation ..muzzles do not represent dangerous dogs ..im 44 3 kids 2 grandchildren and i used to hate dogs jumping at my kids off lead and owners saying oh its ok their only playing .. I have never seen a muzzled dog as a threat or perceived it as dangerous but a owner being safe for their dog as i want to be ..as i stated at the begining its about keeping Tia safe with the new law changes id be dam stupid to think i shouldn't consider every option when i take her out . if its because of other people and the laws so be it at least im thinking about keeping her safe


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> I rehomed a pup we were looking for our first dog and she came along so what breed she is for us didnt matter ..where we are a lot of people muzzle their bigger dogs and with the DDA laws a fair few more are using them . so for her safety yes i think it is a good idea.


Right here. "So, for her safety, yes I think it is a good idea".

Unless I'm really missing something, that's a declaration that you believe it's a good idea to muzzle your dog.

You did ask for opinions. Those opinions, in the main, are that you should only muzzle her, should it prove to be necessary.

Why take offence I really don't know. Nobody has been rude or disrespectful to you in any way, just honest.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> I am being a good owner by addressing the situation ..muzzles do not represent dangerous dogs ..im 44 3 kids 2 grandchildren and i used to hate dogs jumping at my kids off lead and owners saying oh its ok their only playing .. I have never seen a muzzled dog as a threat or perceived it as dangerous but a owner being safe for their dog as i want to be ..as i stated at the begining its about keeping Tia safe with the new law changes id be dam stupid to think i shouldn't consider every option when i take her out . if its because of other people and the laws so be it at least im thinking about keeping her safe


To keep her safe you just need to train her an socialise her, being a staff does not mean she will be seized under the DDA... By all means teach her to wear a muzzle, but again I don't see why she should wear it if she is friendly..... I also think you are worrying about the law to much, even before the new changes came in to place the law always covered dogs in public places, it now covers anywhere? So are you planning to muzzle her 24/7?

I can assure you that most people see dogs with muzzles and think they are aggressive...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm not against muzzling a dog who needs it, I muzzled my previous dog for years in public as he was a danger to other dogs. But your posts certainly make it sound like you plan on muzzling your pup purely because of her mix and peoples perceptions of staffies. 

A muzzle alone will do absolutely nothing at all to keep your dog safe imo. If anything it's likely to make people more wary of her. The best thing you can do to keep any dog safe from the dangerous dogs act is to be a responsible owner. Train your dog. Socialise your dog. And above all keep control of your dog. That last is the main one that will protect your dog.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

You may not see a muzzle as a threat but your average "Daily fail" reader DO see them as a threat...

I do not see a muzzle as a threat, however I would avoid you if your dog was muzzled... 

Your age and child status has little relevance to this discussion 

I do think you are getting a bit confused over the new law..it is not new, they have just extended the law to apply to private property....no more, no less.

You have a breed of dog that has some bad press, I know exactly how that feels....it is your job to make sure that your dog does not live up to peoples perceptions NOT start muzzling her on walks for the sake of it.

Having your dog muzzled does not mean you are exempt of anything..your dog could still hurt with a muzzle, your dog could still cause someone fear (falling into the DDA ), muzzling will not stop any dog jumping up...

Only training...training and more training will help you to change peoples minds about the breed.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Really?
> 
> Are you saying that none of your posts imply that you are going to muzzle your dog because of what others think? Have you once mentioned that you will only muzzle if aggression is shown? Why bother asking a question when you don't seem to want answers?
> 
> ...


hmmm seeing as labs have turned on owners more than staffs and most vets will tell you the worst family dog they have seen turn will be a lab if i was that worried id of said lab but no im mentioning the staffy of my dog because joe public see the staff in her and that is the thing that bothers me . ..muzzles are not just for aggression ! why yr saying its about aggression i dont know. Id much rather think about muzzling her to help other people feel safer around her then them to be afraid of the medias latest dog to be afraid of and risk Tia being accused of scaring someone .


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> hmmm seeing as labs have turned on owners more than staffs and most vets will tell you the worst family dog they have seen turn will be a lab if i was that worried id of said lab but no im mentioning the staffy of my dog because joe public see the staff in her and that is the thing that bothers me . ..muzzles are not just for aggression ! why yr saying its about aggression i dont know. Id much rather think about muzzling her to help other people feel safer around her then them to be afraid of the medias latest dog to be afraid of and risk Tia being accused of scaring someone .


DO you know what I give up... Good luck with her and her muzzle, I think there is little point in trying to make you see sense as you seem to be caught up in the media hype about the breed, and trust me if owners start falling for the hype then breeds are buggered.

I own Rottweilers, I make sure they are trained, well behaved and under control, so people have no cause to be scared of them, on lead and under control at all times abiding by the law....

You are missing the point people will see your dog as aggressive if you muzzle her, so you will be playing to their fear, but don't let rational thinking get in the way of hysteria....


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

There you go again....you imply that you are going to muzzle because of what others think...

The breeds are irrelevant to me...I have a 42kg Ambull cross I couldn't care less about what others think about my dog...IF he was to cause a problem then I MAY muzzle him but not before...

I mention aggression because that is the only reason I (me, no one else) would muzzle. 
If you don't want your dog to scare people then don't let her...simples


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

she is adorable , jumping is near on no problem , we had a bt guy in yesterday and i sent her to her bed and there she stayed until i said she could leave it . she takes no notice of people coming and going as i have a strict ignore her policy as anyone comes in or out so she does not see it as an exciting thing ..kids are the only thing that send her scatty .. i spend a lot of time bonding and training her more so because of what people are thinking lately due to media coverage and that has been a good thing as it has made me pay more attention to training then i may of previously done .. i am a person that takes all aspects of life into consideration including those of people around me and that an only benefit tia


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ok got it...you will do what you want regardless (as is your right)...no need to ask the question really then was there?

I will never agree with muzzling just because...which is what you have implied you will do throughout the thread...even tho she ignores people and isn't an issue 

Fair do's carry on...I really am out now lol


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

If your dog frightens someone wearing a muzzle and that person takes it to the law the fact your dog is wearing a muzzle will not 'keep her safe'.

Muzzle or no muzzle if a dog frightens someone action can still be taken under the DDA.

People like us know muzzles are not just about aggression issues but every other media worshiping t**t DOES! People but 2 and 2 together and make 5 they don't stop and think there could be another reason for a muzzle.

Its all about education, why not educate idiots that freak out because your dog is a staffie x and show them they can be well trained and well mannered, sociable dogs and not the aggressive bruits people see them as. 

Unless the law ever states that Staffordshire bull terriers HAVE to be muzzled in public there's no way I would muzzle my staffie just because of others lack of education. Would u like something strapped to your face for the sake of it??


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Are you planning on keeping this dog on leash for her entire life? Or never taking her out in public? How far is this "consideration for other people" going to stretch? Because those are the sorts of things people with certain types of dog do hear.

Seriously, if you want to keep your dog safe from the dangerous dogs act then train her well and keep her under control. It really is that simple. Aggression is mentioned so often because that is what a hell of a lot of the general public think when they see a muzzled dog, that it's aggressive.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

chell77 said:


> yep re read all mine not once have I said i will muzzle her .. again other peoples perception not what i have actually written ..if i say its a good idea does not mean i will do it , if i was going to why would i ask others advice ? read my words not your perception ..


Slaps forehead - its been as clear as day - your intention is to muzzle the poor dog just because of your worries about other people being scared of her



chell77 said:


> I am being a good owner by addressing the situation ..muzzles do not represent dangerous dogs ..im 44 3 kids 2 grandchildren and i used to hate dogs jumping at my kids off lead and owners saying oh its ok their only playing .. I have never seen a muzzled dog as a threat or perceived it as dangerous but a owner being safe for their dog as i want to be ..as i stated at the begining its about keeping Tia safe with the new law changes id be dam stupid to think i shouldn't consider every option when i take her out . if its because of other people and the laws so be it at least im thinking about keeping her safe


Yeah, muzzling is not going to help



chell77 said:


> hmmm seeing as labs have turned on owners more than staffs and most vets will tell you the worst family dog they have seen turn will be a lab if i was that worried id of said lab but no im mentioning the staffy of my dog because joe public see the staff in her and that is the thing that bothers me . ..muzzles are not just for aggression ! why yr saying its about aggression i dont know. Id much rather think about muzzling her to help other people feel safer around her then them to be afraid of the medias latest dog to be afraid of and risk Tia being accused of scaring someone .


yep, intention to muzzle again



chell77 said:


> she is adorable , jumping is near on no problem , we had a bt guy in yesterday and i sent her to her bed and there she stayed until i said she could leave it . she takes no notice of people coming and going as i have a strict ignore her policy as anyone comes in or out so she does not see it as an exciting thing ..kids are the only thing that send her scatty .. i spend a lot of time bonding and training her more so because of what people are thinking lately due to media coverage and that has been a good thing as it has made me pay more attention to training then i may of previously done .. i am a person that takes all aspects of life into consideration including those of people around me and that an only benefit tia


So why muzzle the poor girl if she is already well behaved? 
I'm too I am out with this now, I hope you come to your senses and don't muzzle the dog.


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## zedder (Aug 21, 2013)

I think you'll be OK to muzzle train but only use it if really it becomes necessary which I highly doubt it will as staffs are lovely.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> she is adorable , jumping is near on no problem , we had a bt guy in yesterday and i sent her to her bed and there she stayed until i said she could leave it . she takes no notice of people coming and going as i have a strict ignore her policy as anyone comes in or out so she does not see it as an exciting thing ..kids are the only thing that send her scatty .. i spend a lot of time bonding and training her more so because of what people are thinking lately due to media coverage and that has been a good thing as it has made me pay more attention to training then i may of previously done .. i am a person that takes all aspects of life into consideration including those of people around me and that an only benefit tia


Well, there, you said it yourself. She's a sweetheart, so why would she need to wear a muzzle?

If some people have a problem with a Staffy or Staffy cross, it's exactly that, THEIR problem.

I've had people give me a very wide berth when I used to have Leah, (our Staffy girl), in the park, but I used to ignore the idiots frankly. All Leah wanted to do was wander round the park, having a good sniff and chase her ball, when she was younger. As she aged, she got a lot of pleasure from carrying a stick around the park. I would never have taken those little pleasures away from her by forcing her to wear a muzzle because of the prejudices and ignorance of others.

If you know your girl is good natured and kind, don't allow yourself to make decisions based on the misconceptions of others, please. Do what's best for her.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Are you planning on keeping this dog on leash for her entire life? Or never taking her out in public? How far is this "consideration for other people" going to stretch? Because those are the sorts of things people with certain types of dog do hear.
> 
> Seriously, if you want to keep your dog safe from the dangerous dogs act then train her well and keep her under control. It really is that simple. Aggression is mentioned so often because that is what a hell of a lot of the general public think when they see a muzzled dog, that it's aggressive.


the majority here is that people feel safer with a muzzled dog as unfortunately a fair few staffs in my home town / village have killed other dogs over the last few years and it is important for me to know that people feel ok, thing is about aggression it can pop up anytime with any dog, ive only ever known family dogs to bite family members so we are all working on training together on my knowledge and the society around us.


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## zedder (Aug 21, 2013)

chell77 said:


> the majority here is that people feel safer with a muzzled dog as unfortunately a fair few staffs in my home town / village have killed other dogs over the last few years and it is important for me to know that people feel ok, thing is about aggression it can pop up anytime with any dog, ive only ever known family dogs to bite family members so we are all working on training together on my knowledge and the society around us.


 Don't mean too be funny but why ask anyone's opinion if you have already made up your mind if you muzzle her unnecessarily she will miss out on so much all because you are pandering to ignorant bafoons.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> the majority here is that people feel safer with a muzzled dog as unfortunately a fair few staffs in my home town / village have killed other dogs over the last few years and it is important for me to know that people feel ok, thing is about aggression it can pop up anytime with any dog, ive only ever known family dogs to bite family members so we are all working on training together on my knowledge and the society around us.


Dog on dog aggression bares no relevance to human aggression................

Do the rescue know what you have planned for this poor dog? Why did you come here? You know what your doing, you know all about Staffs, you know all about training, you know all about how people think, you asked for opinions when you already have planned what your going to do? Was there any point at all?

Why not just post, I'm going to muzzle my Staff because they have bad press, just telling you...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> the majority here is that people feel safer with a muzzled dog as unfortunately a fair few staffs in my home town / village have killed other dogs over the last few years and it is important for me to know that people feel ok, thing is about aggression it can pop up anytime with any dog, ive only ever known family dogs to bite family members so we are all working on training together on my knowledge and the society around us.


Would people feel safer with no dogs at all? No cars on the road?

I do not understand why you're so concerned with the opinions of others. I wish you were equally as concerned with the welfare of your dog.

I tell you, when people see a dog wearing a muzzle, they assume that dog is a danger, either to other dogs or people, or even both. Why give out that message about your girl at all? Don't you think that these poor Staffies, as a breed, suffer enough bad press and negativity?

Leah was a sweetheart and not an aggressive bone in her body and we were proud of her, very proud. We didn't care about the opinion of anyone else.

It troubles me that you yourself must have such a negative view of Staffies and yet, you own one and would penalise her because you think it might make others more comfortable?

All I can say is your idea of what makes a good dog owner and mine are leagues apart.

Your girl sounds like a sweetheart. Be proud of her and don't treat her in a way you think others would approve of, even if it's not fair to her and what you're proposing isn't fair.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

You know what.......all this over a 12 week old PUPPY......

As a first time dog owner you would have thought that they would take on board what more experienced handlers advice (especially after asking for said advice)...

I won't continue voicing the rest of my thoughts as they don't need to be heard.
I know I said I was done...but I just can't help but get a little irritated by people pandering to the gen public's stupid ideas...


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> You know what.......all this over a 12 week old PUPPY......
> 
> As a first time dog owner you would have thought that they would take on board what more experienced handlers advice (especially after asking for said advice)...
> 
> ...


first time dog owner yes ..but around dogs all my life ..i will ask to hear opinions on what i have asked as many dog owners i know asked me if i was going to use a muzzle when shes older , a few of you decided it was something it wasn't and that's not my fault you perceived it to be what it wasnt as i have said numerous times and its yr choice to ignore that like anything else like pandering to public ideas .. i will train my dog as to what i deem appropriate and with public perception in mind just as i do my kids , in life we all have to deal with stuff and adapt our lives to what is socially perceptible nothing is black and white and yes I have been told what a great owner I have been so far and how far Tia and I have come in 2 weeks .


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> first time dog owner yes ..but around dogs all my life ..i will ask to hear opinions on what i have asked as many dog owners i know asked me if i was going to use a muzzle when shes older , a few of you decided it was something it wasn't and that's not my fault you perceived it to be what it wasnt as i have said numerous times and its yr choice to ignore that like anything else like pandering to public ideas .. i will train my dog as to what i deem appropriate and with public perception in mind just as i do my kids , in life we all have to deal with stuff and adapt our lives to what is socially perceptible nothing is black and white and yes I have been told what a great owner I have been so far and how far Tia and I have come in 2 weeks .


Well crack on then you know best!


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Well crack on then you know best!


thankyou for your help and valued opinion .


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, good luck to you and your pup. Especially your pup.

You know what though, why do you assume that the public are going to be so focused on you and your dog that they will have an 'expectation' of you?

People do have lives you know.

You carry on and do to your puppy what you think the public expect and the rest of us will continue to do what we think is best for our dogs.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Well, good luck to you and your pup. Especially your pup.
> 
> You know what though, why do you assume that the public are going to be so focused on you and your dog that they will have an 'expectation' of you?
> 
> ...


all goes hand in hand rearing dogs or kids ..public is the society in which we live it all matters, i teach my kids stuff i cant abide but i teach them .. if you think a person thinking about muzzling is wrong then so be it .. i have opinions on all sorts but will always give it in a kind thoughtful positive way ..shame others don't hence why people have attitudes about breeds of dogs when its all one tracked negativity .


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> all goes hand in hand rearing dogs or kids ..public is the society in which we live it all matters, i teach my kids stuff i cant abide but i teach them .. if you think a person thinking about muzzling is wrong then so be it .. i have opinions on all sorts but will always give it in a kind thoughtful positive way ..shame others don't hence why people have attitudes about breeds of dogs when its all one tracked negativity .


I have two kids, in their thirties now. I raised them both to be polite, thoughtful and mannerly and they have always remained that way.

I wouldn't, however, have been prepared to gag my kids, had I thought that was what the public expected.

I assume you see our responses as negative because we don't agree with you.

I find it dismaying that you have got yourself a Staffy pup and now feel the need to perpetuate the myth that the public need protecting from Staffies by muzzling her, even though there is no need.

There are a whole legion of people striving to have Staffies seen for what they really are. Just any other breed of dog. Not vicious, not a danger to the public and not to be feared. People like you are who and what they're fighting against.

I saw a quote the other day, underneath a picture of a gorgeous Staffy and it said "You fear me because I'm a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I fear you because of your ignorance".


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

the responses are negative i presume its because some disagreed with my thinking about using muzzles which are not gags ..( some of my children to are grown and my grandchildren are just as polite ) I have a staffy cross pup because we thought long and hard over 18mths about getting a dog and wavered against getting a full lab due to its size and higher risk of aggression and these wonderful pups came along that needed re-homing. my family and good friends have full staffs and some do muzzle and those dogs are super friendly I wouldn't do anything to damage a dogs welfare , i don't even eat animals or wear them so im not going to emotionally or physically put one at risk .


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> the responses are negative i presume its because some disagreed with my thinking about using muzzles which are not gags ..( some of my children to are grown and my grandchildren are just as polite ) I have a staffy cross pup because we thought long and hard over 18mths about getting a dog and wavered against getting a full lab due to its size and higher risk of aggression and these wonderful pups came along that needed re-homing. my family and good friends have full staffs and some do muzzle and those dogs are super friendly I wouldn't do anything to damage a dogs welfare , i don't even eat animals or wear them so im not going to emotionally or physically put one at risk .


You really haven't a clue I'm sorry for me I've been fairly polite but you just made me laugh out loud! So explain the high risk of aggression in Labs! So you get a lab cross Staff! Where did that startling shard of wisdom come from?

You actually scare me with your ignorance! Yep this is a negative response! I am actually gobsmacked


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> the responses are negative i presume its because some disagreed with my thinking about using muzzles which are not gags ..( some of my children to are grown and my grandchildren are just as polite ) I have a staffy cross pup because we thought long and hard over 18mths about getting a dog and wavered against getting a full lab due to its size and higher risk of aggression and these wonderful pups came along that needed re-homing. my family and good friends have full staffs and some do muzzle and those dogs are super friendly I wouldn't do anything to damage a dogs welfare , i don't even eat animals or wear them so im not going to emotionally or physically put one at risk .


Why would your dog be "at risk" by it not wearing a muzzle?

There are millions of dogs being walked every day without muzzles, my own included.

I am not against muzzles, where they are necessary. What people are upset about is that you are proposing muzzling your girl when it very probably isn't necessary and because she is part Staffy.

Can you not see what you're doing? Your reason for doing this is her breed. You are just as bad as all the others who have decided Staffies are not to be trusted and pre-judge them.

If she were a Poodle or Chihuahua, would you muzzle her, even though she has done nothing wrong?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Wtf? High risk of aggression in Labs? Do you have anything to back up this claim? And if you think Labs are a breed at high risk of becoming aggressive why on earth did you get a Lab mix?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Wtf? High risk of aggression in Labs? Do you have anything to back up this claim? And if you think Labs are a breed at high risk of becoming aggressive why on earth did you get a Lab mix?


Oh apparently, all Labradors are raving, vicious lunatics and vets live in fear of them.

The public need protecting from all Staffies.

So here we have a person who has got herself a pup who is a combination of the two. What a potentially savage creature this pup is.

She certainly needs to be muzzled at all times. Why not go the whole hog and have her teeth removed so that she can't bite? Why not hobble her so that she can't run after someone and savage them to death? She's being pre-judged based on her genes, and this is by the person who owns her.

This is just depressing. I'd put good money on it this pup will end up in rescue because I honestly believe the OP is afraid of her.

It's ignorance in it's worst form.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Crap, I guess those licks I always thought of as kisses are really just him testing whether I'm ready for eating yet then  

I honestly don't see why someone would get a dog if they're concerned about the potential for aggression in the breed or mix  Or if they're worried about other peoples perceptions of the breed. It just doesn't make sense!


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

OP is that a pic of her in your profile ? she's adorable and looks very staffy if thats her 

Honest to god i wouldnt muzzle her unless you have to , ie she starts been aggressive , and i would then only muzzle her if she was a threat to humans , if your so worried about her then dont let her off lead in public places parks etc then nothing should happen if she's on a lead at all times

i must admit i sometimes think what if with mine when he's off lead as im a first time staffy owner aswell , but i can't deprive my friendly natured dog cause of what if's because any breed of dog could turn , and the amount of grumpy growely dogs i encounter daily is quite unreal and not a one has been a staffie or staffie mix


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

actually every vet i spoke to said the worst family breed to turn is a lab , for as far back as i can remember it always has been .. all the years its been rotties, dobermans, bull breeds the last few years in the media because they are most likely to turn with other dogs not people the reason bull breeds are hyped atm in fact comes from their ability to fight other dogs to kill and the media portray this in their own way to sell papers leaving people thinking its about dogs attacking people.. .. you few seem to know it all so much you strive to ridicule like children rather then correspond responsible adults, all the off remarks show irresponsibility and you talk about ignorance of others ? no one should own an animal without being aware of what it i, what it needs or what it could do ..now that is irresponsible


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

wileys mum said:


> i must admit i sometimes think what if with mine when he's off lead as im a first time staffy owner aswell , but i can't deprive my friendly natured dog cause of what if's because any breed of dog could turn , and the amount of grumpy growely dogs i encounter daily is quite unreal and not a one has been a staffie or staffie mix


Grumpy and growly does not necessarily mean a dog is aggressive however. Just to be clear since so many people think a dog who growls is vicious.

My dog can be "grumpy" in certain situations. As can any dog. Like if a dog persistently tries to steal his toy out of his mouth (he growls at them) or starts trying to push him around in which case if it goes on too long without someone stepping in he'll have a go back. Yet he's anything but aggressive and even when he does "have a go" it's nothing more than noise and slobber. My collie was "grumpy" with over exuberant young dogs who knocked him over or dogs who humped him. Again, noise and slobber, not aggression.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> actually every vet i spoke to said the worst family breed to turn is a lab , for as far back as i can remember it always has been .. all the years its been rotties, dobermans, bull breeds the last few years in the media because they are most likely to turn with other dogs not people the reason bull breeds are hyped atm in fact comes from their ability to fight other dogs to kill and the media portray this in their own way to sell papers leaving people thinking its about dogs attacking people.. .. you few seem to know it all so much you strive to ridicule like children rather then correspond responsible adults, all the off remarks show irresponsibility and you talk about ignorance of others ? no one should own an animal without being aware of what it i, what it needs or what it could do ..now that is irresponsible


Well, I really can't imagine who all these vets are who believe Labradors are so terrible.

Any dog is capable of biting, not just Bull Breeds.

You think we're irresponsible and ignorant? Dear God, people like you make me despair. Really, despair.

Let's muzzle them all then, as they all have the potential to bite.

Peter Sutcliffe murdered thirteen women. Potentially then, all men have the ability to murder thirteen women, so let's imprison them all NOW before they get going.

That's what you seem to be preaching. Bull breeds bite. Labradors bite. Let's muzzle them all.

Your ignorance is woeful and also very scary.

Please rehome your pup to someone who isn't frightened of her. As I said earlier, I do believe you're afraid of her and you have no business owning a dog ......... any dog.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> actually every vet i spoke to said the worst family breed to turn is a lab , for as far back as i can remember it always has been .. all the years its been rotties, dobermans, bull breeds the last few years in the media because they are most likely to turn with other dogs not people the reason bull breeds are hyped atm in fact comes from their ability to fight other dogs to kill and the media portray this in their own way to sell papers leaving people thinking its about dogs attacking people.. .. you few seem to know it all so much you strive to ridicule like children rather then correspond responsible adults, all the off remarks show irresponsibility and you talk about ignorance of others ? no one should own an animal without being aware of what it i, what it needs or what it could do ..now that is irresponsible


I am well aware what my dog is and I respect it. I am also very aware of what it needs! Sad to burst your bubble Rottweilers have been in the "spot light" for decades!

So if it's the worst family pet explain why you got a cross you have family? Children?

I really do want to cry......... Dogs really don't stand a chance! Again don't know why I'm bothering after 3 weeks of dog ownership you know it all, and she hasn't even set foot out of the house yet.?!.?


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

My own choice for my dogs is a harness for walking for all of the reasons listed in this great article by Emily Larnham.

Dogmantics Dog Training Blog: Is it harmful to attach a leash to your dog's neck?

That said, when they are working in for example agility, they don't wear a harness (either a flat collar with slide on tag or naked).

I don't think you need to routinely muzzle her purely on the basis of her breed. Absolutely do work on making sure she has positive interactions (in which she feels safe, enjoys the interaction and find it rewarding) with people and other dogs and all the strange things she may come across in the big wide world.

By all means muzzle train her and get her comfortable wearing a muzzle for whenever it might be needed (accident/injury and/or traveling abroad- in France for instance staffies and their crosses have to be muzzled in public).













chell77 said:


> actually every vet i spoke to said the worst family breed to turn is a lab , for as far back as i can remember it always has been .. all the years its been rotties, dobermans, bull breeds the last few years in the media because they are most likely to turn with other dogs not people the reason bull breeds are hyped atm in fact comes from their ability to fight other dogs to kill and the media portray this in their own way to sell papers leaving people thinking its about dogs attacking people.. .. you few seem to know it all so much you strive to ridicule like children rather then correspond responsible adults, all the off remarks show irresponsibility and you talk about ignorance of others ? no one should own an animal without being aware of what it i, what it needs or what it could do ..now that is irresponsible


To be fair a great many vets know absolutely zilch about behaviour. I wouldn't listen too carefully to what your vet tells you in this regard.

The honest truth is that whilst breed traits are a very important factor for consideration in the management of dogs in an urban environment, a great amount also depends on: how well the dogs were bred (i.e. was the mother fearful, poorly bred herself, not healthy), early developmental stages (anytime from 2 to 6 weeks) with their litter and mother, socialization periods, experiences during fear periods and any traumatic experiences. These factors vary much more within breeds than between them.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

chell77 said:


> actually every vet i spoke to said the worst family breed to turn is a lab , for as far back as i can remember it always has been .. all the years its been rotties, dobermans, bull breeds the last few years in the media because they are most likely to turn with other dogs not people the reason bull breeds are hyped atm in fact comes from their ability to fight other dogs to kill and the media portray this in their own way to sell papers leaving people thinking its about dogs attacking people.. .. you few seem to know it all so much you strive to ridicule like children rather then correspond responsible adults, all the off remarks show irresponsibility and you talk about ignorance of others ? no one should own an animal without being aware of what it i, what it needs or what it could do ..now that is irresponsible


Chell i admire that you want to do the best for your pet and others and its good to see a staffy owner taking responsability , you are aware of the damage a staff can do , i think most owners are and i think every responsible staffy owner is that bit more carefull with there staff than say they would be if it was a westie for example , im very aware if my dog attacked it could kill another dog

Rewind 4 years ago i attually thought very similar to you , i even said to my mum if i ever got a dog (staffie)i would muzzle it and my mum was horrified , at the time i had no intension of getting a dog so it was just general thoughts with all the dog attacks you read in the media , but now i have him i would only muzzle as a last resort , why should he be penilised because of a few staffies that are nasty , if he attacked another dog i wouldnt let him off lead again with other dogs i dont think i would muzzle him , i see lots of DA dogs about not staff's and only one i can think of is muzzled , i also know of a DA and human aggressive german sheppard and that isnt muzzled but its under full control , my only worry with that is if it got loose and attacked a person/child as it is walked on a park that has a play area for children


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

yes it is and yes very staffy she looks like her mum .. I dont have any attention letting her off lead in our local parks but hopefully up the fields as i live fairly rural when shes good at recall and leave but it is very busy at the park as they are well used & well known parks and unfortunately a fair few dogs have been killed by other dogs there the last few years and we have had a few snake bites up this way too. Im lucky she is good with dogs and cats as the foster she was in altogether there were 14 of them , 7 being her siblings and one her mum. But still here and the nearest local city chelmsford have so many bull breed attacking other dogs people are worried and id be silly not to think about the best steps to take..


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So now I'm irresponsible and ignorant...

OK then.....if me not muzzling my "devil dog" just because of what others think is ignorant and irresponsible then I can deal with that


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> Grumpy and growly does not necessarily mean a dog is aggressive however. Just to be clear since so many people think a dog who growls is vicious.
> 
> My dog can be "grumpy" in certain situations. As can any dog. Like if a dog persistently tries to steal his toy out of his mouth (he growls at them) or starts trying to push him around in which case if it goes on too long without someone stepping in he'll have a go back. Yet he's anything but aggressive and even when he does "have a go" it's nothing more than noise and slobber. My collie was "grumpy" with over exuberant young dogs who knocked him over or dogs who humped him. Again, noise and slobber, not aggression.


i never said it was ??? my lad plays with two labs in a morning they growl at him , there owners says they have got out of the wrong side of bed today , i still allow mine to play off lead with them , if i thought they were aggressive my lad would be on lead and away from them to avoid any confrontation , some dogs are grumpier than othersb just like some are more excitable , but i didnt say aggressive , i was just stating that all dogs can be grumpy growly whatever so if the op feels the need to muzzle her staffy then she would feel the need to muzzle any dog not just the staffy


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> yes it is and yes very staffy she looks like her mum .. I dont have any attention letting her off lead in our local parks but hopefully up the fields as i live fairly rural when shes good at recall and leave but it is very busy at the park as they are well used & well known parks and unfortunately a fair few dogs have been killed by other dogs there the last few years and we have had a few snake bites up this way too. Im lucky she is good with dogs and cats as the foster she was in altogether there were 14 of them , 7 being her siblings and one her mum. But still here and the nearest local city chelmsford have so many bull breed attacking other dogs people are worried and id be silly not to think about the best steps to take..


Yes, of course, please do worry about other people.

At all costs, make sure you're popular.

Don't worry about your dog ......... she's a Staffy after all and must be judged before she's done anything wrong.

As long as the public admire you, all is well.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Well, I really can't imagine who all these vets are who believe Labradors are so terrible.
> 
> Any dog is capable of biting, not just Bull Breeds.
> 
> ...


thats yr opinion, mine being more open would wonder why you would own a dog or why someone would be scared of a dog because they were considering what harness, collar or muzzle to use ? To talk to people the way you do for asking questions to me is very concerning . by the way dogs do bite it would be unnatural for them not to . and yes all humans are capable of murder but we rear our society to be empathetic by what ever way society deems fit at the time .


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Yes, of course, please do worry about other people.
> 
> At all costs, make sure you're popular.
> 
> ...


yes i will worry about other people as it would not be right by law not to take a dog into a public place without thinking as such. as for popular ..oh dear someone has issues now i get why you reply as you have done .


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I am well aware what my dog is and I respect it. I am also very aware of what it needs! Sad to burst your bubble Rottweilers have been in the "spot light" for decades!
> 
> So if it's the worst family pet explain why you got a cross you have family? Children?
> 
> I really do want to cry......... Dogs really don't stand a chance! Again don't know why I'm bothering after 3 weeks of dog ownership you know it all, and she hasn't even set foot out of the house yet.?!.?


Rotties are fabulous dogs all that i have met are and crosses of , the only reason we opted out for a rottie was if we could accommodate him/her size in the house and gardens.

we have no problem here these days on people with rotties..just bull breeds due to what has happened her over the last few years, again its all relative to yr area.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> yes i will worry about other people as it would not be right by law not to take a dog into a public place without thinking as such. as for popular ..oh dear someone has issues now i get why you reply as you have done .


I don't think you should own a dog I'm sorry to say! Your fear of everything will be transfered to your dogs and like you she will see danger in everyone and everything! Have you enrolled her in puppy classes? Arranged a trainer for her, as it's what responsible owners do! I can only hope you have and they can talk some sense in to you so your poor girl doesn't end up with the same fearful outlook on life! Despite advise given by the numerous vets you spoke too you still brought a aggressive lab into your home? Despite your thoughts about bull breeds you still brought one in to your home. Despite people with knowledge of Staffs you chose to ignore advise and do what YOU think is right for a dog, despite never having owned one before, or even setting foot out of the door! I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me, what I do care about is a young dog who you will destroy any joy of life for because you think wrongly that people will judge your dog, it's sad and that makes me angry for your dog!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> Rotties are fabulous dogs all that i have met are and crosses of , the only reason we opted out for a rottie was if we could accommodate him/her size in the house and gardens.
> 
> we have no problem here these days on people with rotties..just bull breeds due to what has happened her over the last few years, again its all relative to yr area.


I am glad you couldn't have one.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

wileys mum said:


> i never said it was ??? my lad plays with two labs in a morning they growl at him , there owners says they have got out of the wrong side of bed today , i still allow mine to play off lead with them , if i thought they were aggressive my lad would be on lead and away from them to avoid any confrontation , some dogs are grumpier than othersb just like some are more excitable , but i didnt say aggressive , i was just stating that all dogs can be grumpy growly whatever so if the op feels the need to muzzle her staffy then she would feel the need to muzzle any dog not just the staffy


Wasn't aimed at you, as I said it's a common misconception that if a dog so much as growls it's seen as "vicious" so thought I'd make it clear that a growl or a grump is not necessarily aggression.

I know my dog. I know his needs. I am not an irresponsible owner because I refuse to take into consideration the fact that some people think Labradors are highly likely to be aggressive and slap a muzzle on him for their sake.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

chell77 said:


> yes i will worry about other people as it would not be right by law not to take a dog into a public place without thinking as such. as for popular ..oh dear someone has issues now i get why you reply as you have done .


You think I have issues? Maybe I do.

For the last forty years, I have been rescuing and rehoming terriers, mainly Jack Russells.

These days, the dogs I'm asked to help are mainly Staffies. I rehomed three between October and December last year. Nothing wrong with any of them, just ignorant owners. One of them, a three year old, had started chasing his own tail. Oh no!! His owners felt if he was capable of biting his own tail, imagine what he could do to a person! He had to go.

Such a sweet dog he was and rehomed, fortunately, to friends of mine.

I'm not saying that some dogs don't bite, that some dogs don't need a muzzle, they do. What upsets me is your perception that somehow, the public needs protecting from your bitch.

She's just a pup, she has shown no sign of aggression and yet, you think she needs muzzling in case she should ever bite.

Again, any dog in the World, COULD bite, but most of them don't.

I'm going to say it again, I think you're afraid because you have a part bred Staffy.

Have you ever heard of Breed Specific Legislation? It's where dogs are judged and condemned by their genes, not their actions. Fortunately, there are many people who are fighting against this cruel and grossly unfair pereception that all Staffies are going to hurt someone.

The bottom line is, you believe it too. You keep saying you have a responsibility to protect the public from your dog, who has done nothing wrong.

You and people like you are all that is wrong and your attitude is what has created this situation.

I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts. I will continue to put my time and energy into helping the poor, rejected dogs who need help because of people like you.

You don't want advice, you don't want opinions, you think you're right.

Do what you want. You're clueless, but you'll never believe it.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> Wasn't aimed at you, as I said it's a common misconception that if a dog so much as growls it's seen as "vicious" so thought I'd make it clear that a growl or a grump is not necessarily aggression.
> 
> I know my dog. I know his needs. I am not an irresponsible owner because I refuse to take into consideration the fact that some people think Labradors are highly likely to be aggressive and slap a muzzle on him for their sake.


There's another lab i meet he's only a youngish dog and he puts his hackles up and runs towards us , first time i saw him i have to admit i was wary , but i have been told since hackles dont mean aggression ? and he come running up hackles up and played brilliant with my dog , his owner said he's always done it , he thinks he does it with excitement


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I don't think you should own a dog I'm sorry to say! Your fear of everything will be transfered to your dogs and like you she will see danger in everyone and everything! Have you enrolled her in puppy classes? Arranged a trainer for her, as it's what responsible owners do! I can only hope you have and they can talk some sense in to you so your poor girl doesn't end up with the same fearful outlook on life! Despite advise given by the numerous vets you spoke too you still brought a aggressive lab into your home? Despite your thoughts about bull breeds you still brought one in to your home. Despite people with knowledge of Staffs you chose to ignore advise and do what YOU think is right for a dog, despite never having owned one before, or even setting foot out of the door! I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me, what I do care about is a young dog who you will destroy any joy of life for because you think wrongly that people will judge your dog, it's sad and that makes me angry for your dog!


hmm lol now i even took my children to puppy training classes before we agreed to get a dog to see whats what and the local trainers are fabulous at writtle college.. funny how i never said i thought dogs are aggressive but yr quoting me as i did ...i have never owned a dog no but my partner has had dogs all his life rotties and rotty/labs . you have such high opinions on things i havnet said but hey thats ok .. if my pup wasnt happy she wouldnt be here..i guess im more animal minded then most as i dont wear or eat them ..


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Sweety said:


> You think I have issues? Maybe I do.
> 
> For the last forty years, I have been rescuing and rehoming terriers, mainly Jack Russells.
> 
> ...


and i have rehomed many animals myself due to peoples neglect over the past 20 years. i have seen the aftermath of a 1 year old have her their face ripped off by a much loved family dog 25 years ago.. i know what dogs are capable off but ive never been afraid of one


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

wileys mum said:


> There's another lab i meet he's only a youngish dog and he puts his hackles up and runs towards us , first time i saw him i have to admit i was wary , but i have been told since hackles dont mean aggression ? and he come running up hackles up and played brilliant with my dog , his owner said he's always done it , he thinks he does it with excitement


No, hackles up doesn't necessarily mean aggression, it signifies arousal of some sort  Spencers go up at the drop of a hat sometimes. High excitement or uncertainty will have him hackling up and they're usually up when meeting new dogs but the rest of his body language is anything but aggressive so it's not something I worry about.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Sweety said:


> You think I have issues? Maybe I do.
> 
> For the last forty years, I have been rescuing and rehoming terriers, mainly Jack Russells.
> 
> ...


oh god mine was chasing his tail the other night LOL

My mates staffy is quite bad at doin that but shes always done it and shes 9 , how silly are some ppl

I know when i was looking for a staffy i was looking on accredited breeder websites and one of the questions was can you handle the stigma attached to a staffy

Im abit of an akward sod tbh when it comes to the public , if i see another dog coming towards me i wont cross the road because theres nothing wrong with my dog , there has been the odd person cross when they see me , i dont take offence rather than see it negative towards my dog i think of it negative towards theres and assume there's isnt good with other dogs . i guess ive been lucky but if someone was to confront me they would be getting educated on the staffordshire bull terrier :cursing:

i find if your a regular dog walker ie out every day of the year rain or shine , then you get to know everyone and you will be accepted if your dog is ok , well thats what ive found here , im known as the lady with the friendly staffy


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I am glad you couldn't have one.


see pure arrogance and you say i shouldnt have a dog in my family !


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

chell77 said:


> .i guess im more animal minded then most as i dont wear or eat them ..


Ummmm,, what???

Just, oh dear :nonod:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

wileys mum said:


> there has been the odd person cross when they see me , i dont take offence rather than see it negative towards my dog i think of it negative towards theres and assume there's isnt good with other dogs


I cross if possible rather than walk Spen past another dog on the same side of the street. Partly out of habit and partly because he can still be an idiot close up. It's just easier to put that bit of distance between us so I can keep his attention somewhat on me and minimise the risk of him possibly setting the other dog off with his excited whining and pulling. I always feel horribly guilty if another dog reacts to mine for some reason. Even if we're across the street.

I had someone with a Rottie and Dobe have a right go at me for crossing the street every time I saw him and his dogs. Went on about how they weren't devil dogs and wouldn't try to rip my dog apart or anything like that. He was rather red faced when I pointed out that my sweet looking scruffy mutt would most certainly try to exterminate his dogs given half a chance and THAT was why I crossed.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Tbh Chell i think once you have had her longer you may change your mind about the muzzle ? its early days , you will get to know her and trust her , i remember taking mine out for the first time , he was just over 3 years old the person i got him from said he was ok with other dogs , but ppl lie so i took it he might not be as not to take chances , so was aware this dog i was leading might not be good , so the first walk or so i was wary , as time went on now im pretty chilled and more worried of other ppls lol


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## Katherna (Feb 20, 2008)

chell77 said:


> hi all ive been looking a lot for the best thing to stat Tia on..what are the differences on walking,controlling with a harness or collar and least stressful and best for the dog .. also as she is a lab / staff cross and peoples perception isnt best for staffs should i use a muzzle from the off set on walks ? she hasn't been out yet as she is a bit late on her jabs , has her 2nd this weekend.
> 
> many thanks for any replies


As Tia is only little I'd take her to the training classes, or puppy classes she'll meet lots of other dogs and people in a controlled environment. I'd only use a muzzle on a dog as a last resort no matter how the breed was perceived by joe public. I'd either use a collar or a harness for walking her on.

I've met good and bad staffies, also good and bad dogs of other breeds over the years, both big and small. If I see a muzzled dog I do tend to give the dog and owner a very wide berth as to me it means the dog has a bad aggression issue. Some people use a muzzle as a status symbol - look at my big bad dog! even though the dog isn't aggressive at all but the owner wants to be perceived as being 'hard'.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> see pure arrogance and you say i shouldnt have a dog in my family !


No not arrogance just glad you didn't get your hands on a Rottweiler, your about to destroy a breed known to be people friendly........ Guess what most of us have lived with dogs since the 90's and not fallen foul off the DDA.......


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Katherna said:


> As Tia is only little I'd take her to the training classes, or puppy classes she'll meet lots of other dogs and people in a controlled environment. I'd only use a muzzle on a dog as a last resort no matter how the breed was perceived by joe public. I'd either use a collar or a harness for walking her on.
> 
> I've met good and bad staffies, also good and bad dogs of other breeds over the years, both big and small. If I see a muzzled dog I do tend to give the dog and owner a very wide berth as to me it means the dog has a bad aggression issue. Some people use a muzzle as a status symbol - look at my big bad dog! even though the dog isn't aggressive at all but the owner wants to be perceived as being 'hard'.


i saw a staffie x in blackpool town centre , thick leather harness , studded collar and a muzzle , it looked dreadfull it was been walked by a older bloke not a youth but i shouldnt judge but he didnt look a full shilling neither did his missus , his missus was coming out of the charity shop in the town and the dog looked ever so freindly wagging its tail etc at her , could of been friendly cause thats the dogs owner , but i thought at the time i wonder if that dog is attually aggressive ?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

wileys mum said:


> i saw a staffie x in blackpool town centre , thick leather harness , studded collar and a muzzle , it looked dreadfull it was been walked by a older bloke not a youth but i shouldnt judge but he didnt look a full shilling neither did his missus , his missus was coming out of the charity shop in the town and the dog looked ever so freindly wagging its tail etc at her , could of been friendly cause thats the dogs owner , but i thought at the time i wonder if that dog is attually aggressive ?


Could well have been dog aggressive rather than people aggressive. Rupert loved humans, loved a fuss from complete strangers and would wag his tail hopefully at passers by if we were standing around or on a bus or whatever. But when it came to other dogs it was another matter entirely. You wouldn't have known it seeing him cuddle up to strangers though. Or the dog could be a scavenger and muzzled to prevent it eating stuff it shouldn't.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chell77 said:


> hmm lol now i even took my children to puppy training classes before we agreed to get a dog to see whats what and the local trainers are fabulous at writtle college.. funny how i never said i thought dogs are aggressive but yr quoting me as i did ...i have never owned a dog no but my partner has had dogs all his life rotties and rotty/labs . you have such high opinions on things i havnet said but hey thats ok .. if my pup wasnt happy she wouldnt be here..i guess im more animal minded then most as i dont wear or eat them ..


But you did not get a lab because all the Vets you asked said they were aggressive?


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Chell, afraid I can't help but take offence at the Labradors = aggressive comments and would like to know which vet practices are spreading this misinformation, please. 
One of mine endured two key traumatic experiences when he was younger that left some fear aggression issues but we've worked hard to resolve them and I feel confident that he poses no threat now. He didn't end up fear aggressive because of his breed, and has been an exemplary family dog for the past 12yrs.

Maybe I should start muzzling both of my Labs 24/7 in case they suddenly turn on me and the family


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Muzzles do not make other people feel safe - the difference in how people react to my dog since he's muzzled is huge.

No-one wants to meet him, dogs are kept away and everything he does makes people leap out of the way, even when he's just doing a bit of a - want to play bounce...

That suits me fine because he's wearing it because he does have an issue, but they definitely don't feel safer when they see him.

It limits training techniques as I can only give him rewards from exactly the right position, he can't play with toys or play fetch while he's out either...other dogs also react unpredictably with him, I assume because they can't see his face properly.

For me with a dog who does react aggressively the benefits of people avoiding him because he's muzzled and him being unable to bite if they do approach is worth the negatives, but no way would I put one on a dog for any other reason than that it actually needs one.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

chell77 said:


> I am being a good owner by addressing the situation ..muzzles do not represent dangerous dogs ..im 44 3 kids 2 grandchildren and i used to hate dogs jumping at my kids off lead and owners saying oh its ok their only playing .. I have never seen a muzzled dog as a threat or perceived it as dangerous but a owner being safe for their dog as i want to be ..as i stated at the begining its about keeping Tia safe with the new law changes id be dam stupid to think i shouldn't consider every option when i take her out . if its because of other people and the laws so be it at least im thinking about keeping her safe


What new law changes?

What has changed in the law regarding the DDA and/or staffie xs that mean that you believe that muzzling may be a good idea?

Have I missed something?

FWIW I have a bite trained GSD, he does not wear a muzzle when out.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

OP by your rationale every single dog would be muzzled - all dogs have the potential to bite. All dogs are also equally "at risk" under the DDA and always have been. It is true that those of us with larger dogs or stigmatised breeds sometimes have to work harder to make certain that people are not afraid of them, but it's just a matter of ensuring they do not get the chance to frighten anyone wherever possible or to even be in a situation where they could be accused of doing so e.g., workmen in - dogs segregated so they never meet, person approaching so leads on and sat to the side for them to pass etc etc.

I am also willing to bet that in the majority of cases aggression does not just "pop up" but that there are a fair few warning signs first that have not been heeded. Muzzling in case of that is like me wearing handcuffs constantly in case I suddenly feel like punching someone in the face; I do actually often feel the urge but luckily my impulse control is good .


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

OP I would choose a harness if your puppy is pulling, just because it is less likely to cause damage to the neck, if your puppy is already good at loose lead walking then you can use a collar instead. Even if you are using a harness you should also use a collar with attached ID tags. 

Regarding muzzling, I wouldn't personally at this young age, it makes people more wary of your dog so won't necessarily protect you or her under the DDA and as has been said, a dog can still cause injury while wearing a muzzle. I have a dog who needs to be muzzled around people and other dogs, but I am also lucky enough to have access to private fields to make up for that. 

A muzzle can be quite limiting for a dog. 

Disadvantages have already been pointed out but thinking about your puppy in line with my experience they are:

People avoid the dog - good for mine as that is the idea, for a puppy though that could mean that they are potentially missing out on important socialisation with members of the public and their dogs. People won't want to approach you or help with socialisation. 

Unable to use their mouths much for anything - so can't bite which is a plus, but also cannot play fetch, pick up things on walks. 

Harder to use positive reinforcement: you have to tailor the treat sizes to fit through holes in a muzzle, often there is only one point where you can get a treat through to the dog and it can take a while to deliver a treat until you have got the hang of it. 

Fitting: the muzzle has to be well fitted, even a minor difference from their measurements can obstruct their vision. 

The dog can become fearful: all dogs and people avoid you, or you avoid all dogs and people, there must be something to be afraid of. 

The dog can still cause injury - I have been hit accidentally with a muzzle, it hurts, if your puppy causes another dog injury while wearing it then it may not be seen as an accident, your dog was wearing a muzzle and therefore you must have known it had the potential to cause injury to another dog (silly logic, but true)

Advantages: 

dog can't bite
dog can't pick up things on walks


So listing it like that, for me the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages of wearing a muzzle for a puppy that A - has not shown any indication of biting people or dogs, B - does not pick up dangerous items on walks. What do you think?


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

You cannot train a dog wearing a muzzle using toys or treats, or teach any seek / retrieve games. 
So no, I don`t think muzzling a dog for no good reason is a good idea. 
Whatever you use - harness, collar, halti - will be useless unless you train the dog. They are training aids, not alternatives. 
Socialise and train your dog. Change the perceptions.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

catpud said:


> OP I would choose a harness if your puppy is pulling, just because it is less likely to cause damage to the neck, if your puppy is already good at loose lead walking then you can use a collar instead. Even if you are using a harness you should also use a collar with attached ID tags.
> 
> Regarding muzzling, I wouldn't personally at this young age, it makes people more wary of your dog so won't necessarily protect you or her under the DDA and as has been said, a dog can still cause injury while wearing a muzzle. I have a dog who needs to be muzzled around people and other dogs, but I am also lucky enough to have access to private fields to make up for that.
> 
> ...


she is good on lead at home atm hopefully she will stay like that when she can go out and have all those new distractions around her . would you know what the difference is for the dog on collar or harness ? (she has does wear a ID collar on to)


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

chell77 said:


> she is good on lead at home atm hopefully she will stay like that when she can go out and have all those new distractions around her . would you know what the difference is for the dog on collar or harness ? (she has does wear a ID collar on to)


Look at the article I posted for you


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm not reading eleven pages as I am at work and lazy 

But from reading your initial thread, muzzle training is a good idea for cases when a muzzle may be necessary i.e. eating faeces

But to muzzle train a young dog just for the purpose of what its crossed with is ludicious! You need to uncover the sheet around your eyes and know that dogs are only what they become due to people.

At 12 weeks old you need to be socialising your puppy with as many different things as possible - other dogs, pushchairs, trees, buildings, lamposts, children, eldery people, everything!

Enjoy your young pup - don't think just because of what its crossed with means that they're obviously going to be aggressive, if anything being this paranoid will fed back to the young pup and will more likely make them anxious.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

chell77 said:


> she is good on lead at home atm hopefully she will stay like that when she can go out and have all those new distractions around her . would you know what the difference is for the dog on collar or harness ? (she has does wear a ID collar on to)


Well if she is good on lead then there is not really all that much difference between using a collar or harness. Dogs can be trained to walk on a loose lead using both, it really is a myth that a harness encourages a dog to pull. The only difference really comes when a dog pulls.

With a harness a pulling dog has the pressure distributed evenly across the chest which means no pressure on the neck, with a collar all of the pressure is centred on a small, rather sensitive area with the potential to cause damage to muscles and airways, pulling dogs often look like they are choking on a collar which isn't very good.

Harnesses are easier (in my opinion) when it comes to controlling dogs who pull or lunge (whether that is due to excitement or anything else) as you have control over the whole body rather than just the neck.


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## chell77 (May 7, 2014)

lemmsy said:


> Look at the article I posted for you


hi i didnt see that post before thanks


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I was told to muzzle my dogs "to keep people quiet" (i.e stop people slagging me off and keep them happy) and I stupidly did! Be it briefly, but never again. 

My dogs have never bitten another dog before (although my female Jack has been bitten quite badly by another dog walkers dog, puncture wounds around the chest and neck, covered in her own blood) yet MY dogs need a muzzle. The only time I would muzzle Charlie is if we were around joggers, cyclists, fast moving people etc. But if we were in that situation he would be on lead and not able to get to these people. 

And Dottie got muzzled at the vets the other day as she's only been to the vet twice before and she was terrified, trying to jump at the handle to get out. We muzzled her as a precaution but even then she just tried to wriggle free and escape, then she just froze and her eyes went HUGE. Thats the only times I'll muzzle my dogs, if anyone tries to tell me again otherwise I'll tell them to kiss my ass :thumbup1:


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