# knuckling over



## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

hi everyone just after some advice about knucling over...we picked up our 8 week old american bulldog on saturday and come sunday we noticed her legs were not right. We took her to the vets where he prescribed some anti-flamitory meds suspecting she had arthiritus. After checking her symptoms on google we figured she has knuckling over deformity. We have changed her food today to a lower protein and fat content and are thinking about getting some support splints on her 2 front legs...they are really bad its almost like shes doing the splits while walking and finds it hard to walk and get up etc. its heartbreaking to see her like this so any information or advice would be greatly appreciated! 
thankyou


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

What has the breeder said about it?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

What did the breeder say?


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

she has said what ever is the matter with bella (our pup) has nothing to do with her as a breeder! Apparently all the other pups are fine?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

leanne562 said:


> hi everyone just after some advice about knucling over...we picked up our 8 week old american bulldog on saturday and come sunday we noticed her legs were not right. We took her to the vets where he prescribed some anti-flamitory meds suspecting she had arthiritus. After checking her symptoms on google we figured she has knuckling over deformity. We have changed her food today to a lower protein and fat content and are thinking about getting some support splints on her 2 front legs...they are really bad its almost like shes doing the splits while walking and finds it hard to walk and get up etc. its heartbreaking to see her like this so any information or advice would be greatly appreciated!
> thankyou


Have you discussed this possible diagnosis with your vet?

Do you have any pics?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

The best info ive seen in regards to this condition is on here: Bowed Legs, Knuckling Over in Puppies - Puppy Feed Program | GREATDANELADY.COM

However, i would be asking the vet for a referral to a specialist.


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

no we are back at the vets tuesday to see if her meds have sorted her swollen pads out. im unsure how 2 add pics on a reply but will add some to my profile if possible..


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

have added a few pics to an album


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

leanne562 said:


> she has said what ever is the matter with bella (our pup) has *nothing to do with her as a breeder*! Apparently all the other pups are fine?


It kinda does, all good breeders will have their pups checked over by a vet before they go to new homes (normally between 5-7 weeks).

However, I have found this for you 

Intoxicating Bullies American Bulldogs - Kunckling Over

I wish you luck in your puppies treatments.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Your pup is beautiful. I agree with you it does look like your dog is suffering from knuckling over. Discuss this with your vet on Tuesday. Keep us updated


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I'd keep her off the wooden floor to prevent further splaying, and perhaps try raising her food bowl to make it easier for her to eat.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

poor baby


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

leanne562 said:


> she has said what ever is the matter with bella (our pup) has nothing to do with her as a breeder! Apparently all the other pups are fine?


It has everything to do with her.

Hate using this term for an animal but, under The Sale of Goods Act Bella is classed as "goods". This means you are entitled to a full refund, a part refund or an exchange, plus all your other rights when buying "goods".

Not to mention prior to you owning Bella, the breeder must of spotted her legs, but did not mention it to you. Thus selling you "faulty goods" as "undamaged goods".

Or maybe she did not spot it, which would suggest no vet check was done either.


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

exactely my thoughts! In my eyes she sold us 'faulty goods' we noticed it after having bella less than 24 hours and took her to the vets within 2 days! he did not mention this condition though so when i go back on tuesday im going to take some information to show him which he can then confirm or deny my suspicion. Would just like to thank everybody for your help and support, what a wonderful website this is! :thumbup1:
I will hopefully be updating this next week with a quote saying bella is better!  fingers and toes crossed.


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## toryb (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh bless what a little sweetie!! :001_wub:

Shame on the breeder though...of course it has something to do witht them! I would get your vet to write a letter staing its a birth defect and then request a refund...what a tough situation though. At least if you get the money back it will help cover some of the vets fee's!!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

This is so horrible for you. I'd request full reimbursement from the breeder and talk to the vet about your options. See if you can contact the other puppy buyers to see if they really are ok. It seems unlikely that only one pup would be affected. 

Would you consider asking the breeder to take back the pup or for her to foot the vet bills? It's a horrible situation, but the breeder must have seen the problem and she should not have sold you the pup.

Edit: oh Lord, just seen the pics. Heartbreaking. I can imagine you're already in love.


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

I've only read the site link below, I get the impression it's not genetic (surprised) but a function of food and exercise?

What are you feeding?

What was the exercise like prior to the on-set?

The hard floors can not help, is it remotely possible that slipping over and trying to gain traction as an excited puppy contributed to this?

Indeed the pictures are distressing.

Knuckling Over and HOD - Developmental Orthopedic Disease | GREATDANELADY.COM


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Umm does your vet agree with your google diagnosis? 

Poor baby dog- I assume the parents were health tested etc? Breeders attitude sucks!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

poor girl  

I'm sure i have read something on here before regarding another pup with similar problems..perhaps 12-18months ago...


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Manoy Moneelil said:


> I've only read the site link below, I get the impression it's not genetic (surprised) but a function of food and exercise?
> 
> What are you feeding?
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you in that, everything I have read about this condition suggests it is not genetic.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

just saw this, poor baby, she is beautiful!

see what your vet says about this and then get on to your breeder and ill say the same as i told someone the other day, do it via email to have proof of what she says.

any breeder worth anything would see that her legs are not right and as so she has sold you faulty goods which entitals you to refund, exchange or repair and seen as you already love her go for the repair.

just start by telling her what the vets says and ask if she would be willing to pay for treatment, if not then tell her what you are entitled to.

keep it in email too!

good luck with the puppy though, looks like a sweet little mite.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> poor girl
> 
> I'm sure i have read something on here before regarding another pup with similar problems..perhaps 12-18months ago...


Was it this one?

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-heal...puppy-has-leg-problem-could-serious-help.html

There have been a few others as well - seems its more common in certain breeds/types.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/85553-knuckling-over.html

I wont post all the links as most threads have little to offer and the OP's never returned. However is anyone is interested, just search knuckling and a fair few come up.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Manoy Moneelil said:


> I've only read the site link below, I get the impression it's not genetic (surprised) but a function of food and exercise?
> 
> What are you feeding?
> 
> ...


The OP would have to check with the breeder to get the answers to those questions, and so far the breeder is not accepting any part in the puppies condition. She (the OP) noticed the deformity within 24hrs of having the puppy at home. So with that in mind think it's safe to rule out the OP's wooden/hard floors playing a part in the condition starting.

ETA: OP - As already said, try and keep the puppy off the wooden/hard floors as they will only contribute to the problem.


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

when we picked her up we were given some dry puppy food although were not sure what make it was. This condition is food related so we have now got her some low protein and low fat dry food which should hopefully help and hope to see an improvment over the next few weeks. As she has not had her jabs yet (vet said she had to be 9-10weeks) she only has excercise in the house. She loves to play with her toys so thats a good sign. She loves her water aswell so will be nicely hydrated, iv read up that dogs with this condition go off their food and water although this is definately not the case with bella!  We have now brought her food, water and wee mats into the front room where theres carpet. Trying not to let her in the kitchen with the hard floor.
I also read on here somewhere, someone had this problem with their pup and had contacted their breeders to which they found out another of that litter had the same condition so im going to keep contact with my breeder and see if anymore have the same condition.


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

sorry what is an o.p? Bellas breeder had hard floor in the kitchen where she lived. I presume the breeder would have noticed something for sure as we didnt have her long and noticed it. I think the breeder is trying to wriggle out of the blame, to be honest all we want is an apology off her. 
I have thought about an exchange but im so in love with bella im definately keeping her shes just the most adoreable thing ever! Shes settled in lovely, doesnt cry on a night which suprised me! She loves cuddles and gets on brilliantly with my son whos 4, couldnt ask for a better dog!  sorry if im babbling on lol


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

OP is opening or original poster.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

leanne562 said:


> sorry what is an o.p? *Bellas breeder had hard floor in the kitchen where she lived.* I presume the breeder would have noticed something for sure as we didnt have her long and noticed it. I think the breeder is trying to wriggle out of the blame, to be honest all we want is an apology off her.
> I have thought about an exchange but im so in love with bella im definately keeping her shes just the most adoreable thing ever! Shes settled in lovely, doesnt cry on a night which suprised me! She loves cuddles and gets on brilliantly with my son whos 4, couldnt ask for a better dog!  sorry if im babbling on lol


There you go then, from the link Manoy Moneelil supplied, that seems to be a contributing factor. If so (and her condition is "knuckling over") then I suspect other puppies *may* also be displaying signs of it.

And you are right it is rude to babble. The only way to get our forgiveness is by posting more photos of Bella


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Was it this one?
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-heal...puppy-has-leg-problem-could-serious-help.html
> 
> ...


Yes thats the one i can remember..the 8 week puppy


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

i have hundreds of pics of her i will gladly put more up of her shes a right poser lol


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

thats lovely you have a strong bond, i would see what the vet advises and then get on to the breeder as it may be expensive and she should contribute having sold her with this condition! make sure you email though!

i dont blame you for loving her she is as cute as a button!!!!


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

Interesting to read about the support bandages etc.


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

update on bella: took her to the vets tuesday where he confiremed she does have knuckling over deformity and said he thought it was getting worse, asked him to bandaged her front legs up for me which he did. She also had her 1st vaccinations  Anyway woke up yesterday morning to find her bandaged paws had swollen massively! Looked ready to pop. Immediately cut them off, gave her some anti-inflammitry meds and rushed her back to the vets! (can anything else go wrong?!) :-( He re-bandaged them up using a different material bandage. They still look swollen this morning but have definately gone down! Fingers crossed these ones will be fine! 
Problem is she is constantly chewing at them and 1 has already come away, does anyone have any advice on how to stop her chewing on them? thanks


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

leanne562 said:


> update on bella: took her to the vets tuesday where he confiremed she does have knuckling over deformity and said he thought it was getting worse, asked him to bandaged her front legs up for me which he did. She also had her 1st vaccinations  Anyway woke up yesterday morning to find her bandaged paws had swollen massively! Looked ready to pop. Immediately cut them off, gave her some anti-inflammitry meds and rushed her back to the vets! (can anything else go wrong?!) :-( He re-bandaged them up using a different material bandage. They still look swollen this morning but have definately gone down! Fingers crossed these ones will be fine!
> Problem is she is constantly chewing at them and 1 has already come away, does anyone have any advice on how to stop her chewing on them? thanks


You could use an elizabethan collar? What did the vet say regarding prognosis? Is she going to get better with time?


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## leanne562 (Feb 16, 2012)

ah good idea never thought of that 1! thanks. He doesnt say much so were going to change vets! Asked him to weigh her for me so i know how much food to give her. Were taking her back in a weeks time where i pressume he will remove them and see how she walk without them on.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

aww poor pup, i hope it all gets sorted soon for him!

good idea to change vets if you are not comfortable with them, you diagnosed the puppy yourself and the vet missed it even though you can see the placement of his legs clearly!


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