# RE: BYB - Ragdoll



## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I called SSPCA and they advised that someone had called out the lady/women/persons premises and upon inspection it was found that there were some cleanliness issues.

She has been given advice on cleanliness and worming and flea-ing.

That's all.

No animals were ill or seen as being in immediate danger.

That's it.

So basically, nothing can be done out this can it? I would have thought if you buy a female (non-active) and use it to breed and breed and over bloody well breed[ B] something[/B] should/could be done.

Do the pink slips mean nothing? Why is it not illegal to do this. It's not good at all.

When I visited ours, I picked her at 2 weeks old. I was holding her and clapping her and the others (Scottish-stroking) as was my son.

Did we use hand-wash - NO!!! Were they vaccinated NO!!!!

Did I know any better at that time?? NO!

Do we have frustrated emoticon?


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Is this one of her adds? I notice she is selling them for £300 unregistered? The price you are charging i.e. £175 is much fairer and near the mark.

Ragdoll classifieds in Crossgatehall : Ragdoll Kittens

You have done your best by contacting the SPCA. I doubt she will take any notice of what they have said to her and just carry on.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't know if that is her telephone number but that is a picture of *MY KITTENS!!!!!!!* I know they all look alike but that is my picture. 100%

Oh my goodness, I am so angry. Those are definitely my kittens. I know that picture, I took it on Saturday.

I have only shown these pictures on my photo-bucket and here and one other website, which is not even a pet website it's just a talk place, I have however sent them to a quite a few people.

I wonder if she is watching me as I type. 

I just called the number and a male answered. I have reported it as spam.

I wonder if this is getting personal? She knows where I live. I hope she does come to see me. (which is not Crossgatehall, I have never heard of this place)

Sorry I am rambling. Why on earth would she/someone use my pictures ? She usually charges £280/£300 depending on her cirsumstances. Oh I give up!

If it is her and she is watching this right now, then..... Oh I don't know. YOU HAVE TOO MANY RAGDOLLS AND ARE OVERBREEDING THEM!

:mad2:


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

did you not breed yours without a pink slip?? or being on the active list? what about dad is he registered active??
pot,kettle and black springs to mind!!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

No both un-registered.

We (myself and my mother in law) were lead to believe that we filled in the GCCF Application (which we have) and we could register them ourselves. I found out since then that this is not true at all.

My mother also has one from the same person. He is a beauty, show standard but once again, she cannot do this as we cannot register them.

So we have Misty (unregistered) Harvey (unregistered) Morgan (unregistered) and Domino (unregistered).

We are a family of un-registered Ragdolls.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

what area did you get them from??


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

shortbackandsides said:


> did you not breed yours without a pink slip?? or being on the active list? what about dad is he registered active??
> pot,kettle and black springs to mind!!


This is a sad case and poor Mellowma was scammed, duped, conned and was doing what she thought was the right thing when she found out that her cat wasn't registered and the world went tits up. Her cat wasn't the cat she thought it was, wasn't registered after all etc. Search the forum and you will see the angst and anguish she went though. Please be nice to her - really not her fault - she was even given a forged pink slip!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks Spid.

I am making best of a horrid situation. My kittens will go to their homes, vaccinated, flead, wormed, vet checked, with kitten pack and will not leave me until they are at least 12 weeks, maybe more if I feel they need more mum time.

I just called regarding a GCCF Registered kitten in my area, the lady is not vaccinating them, they are going to new homes at 8 weeks, no vet-checking, wornming etc... and she is selling them for £350 per kitten.

*So who is in the right here?*

I fear there are not too many people like you Spid, so am taking some time away from this site for a while. I have my babies to look after and I am not too sure what I think of the ethics some people have here.

Hopefully I will see you at one of the Shows!

Take care and thank you.



spid said:


> This is a sad case and poor Mellowma was scammed, duped, conned and was doing what she thought was the right thing when she found out that her cat wasn't registered and the world went tits up. Her cat wasn't the cat she thought it was, wasn't registered after all etc. Search the forum and you will see the angst and anguish she went though. Please be nice to her - really not her fault - she was even given a forged pink slip!


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

to be fair there are 2 types of breeders of non-reg purebreds...

BYB - overbreeding their cats, not taking care of genetic lines etc

Un-Reg breeders - take as much care of their cats as so called 'proper breeders' complete with full kitten care etc in same way as the reg-breeders... ie kittens go to new homes at 12-14 weeks and with full jabs and care, housetrained and socialised

Mellowma obviously falls into this second category and I think it is more than fine, she is selling her cats at a fantastic price and allowing people access to a gorgeous breed when they don't need the stuff that comes with a pedigree (chance to show in breed classes etc... snobbery value which I know some {though not many} people like)


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## Eiserblew (Apr 13, 2009)

IndysMamma said:


> to be fair there are 2 types of breeders of non-reg purebreds...
> 
> BYB - overbreeding their cats, not taking care of genetic lines etc
> 
> ...


Her adverts quote that the kittens get their first vaccinations, and she is selling them for £50 less than 'proper' breeders in her area. Well, that's fine and dandy if the vet that these people go to for the 2nd vaccination uses the same vaccine, but if they don't then the new owner has to restart the vaccination course. Not sure how much that is up there, but for me that's around £75. Is the £50 discount that much of a bargain, especially when the kittens are not pedigree (they have to be registered for that!), and she can't even be sure of the background of the pedigree? Is a £50 discount on what should be a £350 cat really a 'fantastic price'? One vaccination done alone and not as part of a course would cost me £45 - so I would save £5. If something goes wrong, I would have no comeback - at least I would if I went through a registered breeder.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Her adverts quote that the kittens get their first vaccinations, and she is selling them for £50 less than 'proper' breeders in her area. Well, that's fine and dandy if the vet that these people go to for the 2nd vaccination uses the same vaccine, but if they don't then the new owner has to restart the vaccination course. Not sure how much that is up there, but for me that's around £75. Is the £50 discount that much of a bargain, especially when the kittens are not pedigree (they have to be registered for that!), and she can't even be sure of the background of the pedigree? Is a £50 discount on what should be a £350 cat really a 'fantastic price'? One vaccination done alone and not as part of a course would cost me £45 - so I would save £5. If something goes wrong, I would have no comeback - at least I would if I went through a registered breeder.

I will be geting both sets done. 1 set at 6 weeks 1 set at 9 weeks. = 43.66 x 5


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## Eiserblew (Apr 13, 2009)

Oh no you won't, because a vet will not vaccinate 6 week old kittens. THey have to be 9 weeks old. If they are done any earlier, the vaccine doesn't take because of the interference of the mothers antibodies.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Strange that, my vet did and does! Would you like their telephopne number?


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Whether it is 6, 7, 8 or 9 weeks - will be geting both sets done. = 43.66 x 5

Early Neutering = £40 x 5 + a day in Glasgow.

Do I sound like someone who does not give a **** about what I am doing?

Anyway, enjoy your little bitch-fest, I started a thread to talk it over with you but I can see there is no point.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

This is a very sad situation. I suppose to the RSPCA it doesn't matter what colour of slip the cat has pink, blue or purple with yellow spots, it just depends on whether some form of cruelty is being carried out and as none was seen apart form a sight hygiene issue, then their hands are tied.

Breeding cats is just breeding cats to many.
They do not understand nor "get" the "Active" thing.

I do think though that as you were sold this cat as an Active breeding girl then surely a fraud has been committed. You paid full whack for "faulty" goods in that they were not "fit for purpose".
You cannot show, you cannot register kittens and you do not really know the pedigree either.
What about CAB or even run it past a lawyer? 
Re breed clubs - I am sure she is probably not a member so what can they do - ban her???? There are so many dodgy people on the fringes of any breed and some of them have prefixes and flashy websites too, so don't beat yourself up about it. I have talked to many breeders about when they first started and not many have lovely, happy stories to tell either, many have been conned with dodgy cats from supposed stalwarts of the breed. I think "newbie" for some, is a license to print money, offloading cats. Newbies often don't have a harder edge so the breeder knows that the cat will not be returned either as the newbie has often "fallen in love" with their first cat. Sad but true.

It is all so disappointing for you but as you say you have some lovely kittens, enjoy them and I am sure they will light up someone's life whether registered or not.
Breeders get hung up on registration, and I would always defend it for breeding pedigree cats, but in my eyes some unregistered loved litters have a better deal in reality than the churned out "factories" that some "pedigree" cats come from.

I would in your situation just follow the "pedigree" course and timing of vaccinations and homing. 
Homing kittens early is I would think really scary, when you see the size of them when they are that young 6-8 weeks, I am surprised how many do survive, feet, dogs, children etc.


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## reddogsX3 (May 18, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> This is a very sad situation. I suppose to the RSPCA it doesn't matter what colour of slip the cat has pink, blue or purple with yellow spots, it just depends on whether some form of cruelty is being carried out and as none was seen apart form a sight hygiene issue, then their hands are tied.
> 
> Breeding cats is just breeding cats to many.
> They do not understand nor "get" the "Active" thing.
> ...


i agree if you feel that you have been mislead in the sale contact the trading standards office they may be able to help


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Eiserblew said:


> Oh no you won't, because a vet will not vaccinate 6 week old kittens. THey have to be 9 weeks old. If they are done any earlier, the vaccine doesn't take because of the interference of the mothers antibodies.


yep, 9 weeks and 12 weeks.

i'd find a different vet if i were you! mine was reluctant to vaccinate my 9 week old kitten as she was so small.


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## Eiserblew (Apr 13, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> yep, 9 weeks and 12 weeks.
> 
> i'd find a different vet if i were you! mine was reluctant to vaccinate my 9 week old kitten as she was so small.


Same here - I don't know of a single vet who would do this. I've asked my vet about it before when I had a 'flu virus scare in my household. My vets even contacted the vaccine manufacturers and Bristol Veterinary University who all gave the same reply - do not vaccinate kittens under 9 weeks old.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Sorry, I was going by when I got Misty. The vet thought she was more 6 weeks than 8 weeks.

This was when I did not know Ragdolls don't leave until nearer 13/14 weeks.

I will get them vaccinated, whatever weeks it may be.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

you need to be very careful with vaccines and ragdolls one of mine nearly died over easter after recieving her vaccinations.Killed vaccines are recommended but vets dont like this.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

if your vet does vaccinate under 9 weeks which he shouldn't as it's against the manufactor rules i suggest you don't let him til they're 9 weeks. Later if you feel they are under the weather etc for whatever reason.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't know why we are disussing whether vets will vaccinate under 9 weeks or not as regards Mellowma, the GCCF recommends that kittens follow certain rules concerning homing. 
As a supposed "good" breeder, whether the kittens are registered or not, then I would think that is the best thing to do.

It is not really open for discussion, you either follow the rules or you don't.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

What you need to concentrate on here is the fraud issue. The SSPCA cannot go removing cats simply because they think they are being bred too often - the RSPCA have been known to do this sort of thing by using threats but that gets them very bad publicity and is probably something only done by rogue inspectors. Breeding a cat three times a year - if any cat will breed that often, I have my doubts, I've certainly never seen it - is not cruelty in itself. Female cats are designed to get pregnant every time they call (unless they are feeding kittens when often they don't get pregnant). Some cats come through kitten raising in exceptionally good condition and some do not. If they are in good condition, there is no health reason why they should not be bred again as soon as they are ready. Even GCCF recommendations allow for a theoretical three litters a year, the lady could do that (if the spacing was right) without even breacking GCCF recommendations let alone any rules. If they are in poor condition that is another matter of course, but the inspection would have picked that up.

Similarly, the great majority of people who breed kittens do not put any restriction on who can handle them at two weeks, so the SSPCA can hardly complain at anyone for letting you handle them at that age. The dangers are not that great anyway unless you have ringworm in your house or you have a cat actively shedding FHV and you have come out without washing your hands and changing your clothes - and how many people go out without changing and going to the loo first?

It's the fraud that is the issue here, not animal welfare, even though this lady's standards may not be the same as those of most of us here. So the fraud is what you need to address.

Liz


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## kelly-joy (Oct 14, 2008)

Just a thought have you thought about contacting trading standards as you were sold something by false means. Its worth a try if you haven't


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