# Help with British Shorthair



## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to purebred cats in general, many thanks in advance for your help !

I've always loved British Shorthair but never got a chance to afford one. Searching online, I've found an ad for a kitten at £1000. In order to secure my kitten I've paid a 15% deposit and I'd pay the rest on collection day, when the kitten is ready to leave after the second vaccination.

The seller said that both parents are Pedigree, but only Dad has papers. 

As I never had a purebred cat, I'm not sure about my rights as a buyer, and specific obligations of the seller. Could you please let me know if this sounds right to you, what can I do to make sure my kitten is well and healthy and the price is somehow justified.

Many thanks,
A


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I am sorry to sound gloomy when this should be such an exciting time for you, but your 'British Shorthair' may not be that at all. It would be a good idea to ask why the dam has not been registered. It is quite possible she has not been bred properly. You should also ask to see a copy of the stud's paperwork. I expect he may not be on the Active Register because breeders will not usually allow unregistered cats in to stud.

I am no longer breeding and I never bred BSH so I am not familiar with prices but I think that is probably top price for a registered pedigree BSH. Perhaps @gskinner123 could advise you


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I have no idea what part of the country you are in, but that price for a kitten that's not registered sounds all wrong to me. People are charging shocking prices for unregistered kittens these days. It's a pity you didn't ask before you paid a deposit, but my advice would be to try to get it back, and then start looking again.

I found registered kittens at £850 in Leicester, and blue males for £1,150 in Warkwickshire. All are now reserved, you have to be quick on the draw. I've just said farewell to three kittens (not BSH) and I never had to advertise them.


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## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

Thank you so much both for sharing your expertise and being honest with me, I'm based in London but this seller is in Dorset.


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## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

The only paper work the seller has provided is the Dad pedigree, but as far as I understand being on the Active Register is something different? Should the seller provide with a proof of the registration or is the Pedigree sufficient? Thanks again


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

That's an awful lot of money for an unregisterable kitten.

The pedigree is simply a family tree and these are usually drawn up by the breeder, either by hand or using a computer program.
The pedigree doesn't tell you if the cats are actually registered, or if they are on the active register (breeding cat register), or non-active register (pet cat register). It also doesn't tell you if all the cats on it are of the alleged breed (in this case BSH), as BYBs will happily fake them from names found on the internet.

There is also genetic testing to consider, and good breeders test their breeding cats and will provide proof of this to their buyers.


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## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

Tigermoon said:


> That's an awful lot of money for an unregisterable kitten.
> 
> The pedigree is simply a family tree and these are usually drawn up by the breeder, either by hand or using a computer program.
> The pedigree doesn't tell you if the cats are actually registered, or if they are on the active register (breeding cat register), or non-active register (pet cat register).
> ...


Thanks for clarifying, it all makes sense now. If I take that kitten, I'd need to cross my fingers she's healthy and I'll need to make at my expenses a genetic test to check how this seller is trustworthy + as you said the kitten is unregistrable.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

AnitaF said:


> The only paper work the seller has provided is the Dad pedigree, but as far as I understand being on the Active Register is something different? Should the seller provide with a proof of the registration or is the Pedigree sufficient? Thanks again


To register a kitten, BOTH parents need to be registered active. There is a sticky https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/pedigree-papers.454267/ which tells you what papers for a registered kitten look like.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

QOTN said:


> I am sorry to sound gloomy when this should be such an exciting time for you, but your 'British Shorthair' may not be that at all. It would be a good idea to ask why the dam has not been registered. It is quite possible she has not been bred properly. You should also ask to see a copy of the stud's paperwork. I expect he may not be on the Active Register because breeders will not usually allow unregistered cats in to stud.
> 
> I am no longer breeding and I never bred BSH so I am not familiar with prices but I think that is probably top price for a registered pedigree BSH. Perhaps @gskinner123 could advise you


I have all but given up trying to explain these things to potential purchasers of BSH kittens. Doing so, online, through Facebook groups is at best embarrassing because you repeat yourself constantly. At worst, those of us trying to explain end up being verbally abused.

The amount of unregistered and/or unethical breeding is, at the current time, off the scale.

It was like it for most of 2020 and the situation is currently worse as there are fewer kittens available due to the time of year so a large proportion of online ads are either scams or crossbreed being advertised as BSH.

£800-1000 is now at the lower end, with £1,500+ being commonplace for unregistered kittens of dubious ancestry.

I'm afraid it's just out of control. Very few prospective purchasers seem to be bothered in their clamour for a kitten.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

As a BSH breeder I would tell you to walk away now.
Have you paid your deposit by the pets4homes deposit button they have? If so as long as you have not released it to the seller yet you can still withdraw your deposit and walk away.
£1000 for an unregistered kitten is preposterous. We dont even charge that for registered kittens.
I have to say I was shocked at the amount of unregistered kittens on there at those silly prices and also seeing registered on there now for £1500 and over. It's crazy.
Keep looking for a decent breeder. For a healthy registered kitten


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## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

Can these people be reported somehow? To who? I understand this is out of control and purchasers contribute to increase this unethical trend. How one can find a trustworthy breeder who is charging a decent price and has all their paper in place ?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

AnitaF said:


> Thanks for clarifying, it all makes sense now. If I take that kitten, I'd need to cross my fingers she's healthy and I'll need to make at my expenses a genetic test to check how this seller is trustworthy + as you said the kitten is unregistrable.


If I were you, I would consider retrieving your deposit because, if the 'breeder' is selling the kittens as British Shorthair when they are not you can argue you were misled.


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## AnitaF (Jan 18, 2021)

Thanks David C, I can't use the private message function yet but I'd like to contact you directly to check if you'd have any available kittens coming soon?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

AnitaF said:


> How one can find a trustworthy breeder who is charging a decent price and has all their paper in place ?


Look to the breed clubs. The GCCF website https://www.gccfcats.org/ apart from it's own breeder scheme, has links to their affiliated clubs and those clubs will have links to members who are breeders, most clubs will have a list of kittens who are currently available too https://www.gccfcats.org/Cat-Breeds/British-Shorthair

This doesn't absolve you of asking pertinent questions however. At the very least you need to ask directly "will the kitten be registered and fully vaccinated?", "what tests do you do on your breeding cats" and "what paperwork will the kitten come with".

Above all, try not get sucked in by cute kittens and 'sales patter', which is incredibly difficult to do I will admit and even long-time breeders can be caught out by a skilled seller. If anything at all, however small, gives you a twinge of suspicion, move on. On top of all that, be prepared to wait, over eagerness to get a kitten is probably the biggest reason for the rise in overpriced kittens being bred and sold today.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

AnitaF said:


> Can these people be reported somehow? To who? I understand this is out of control and purchasers contribute to increase this unethical trend. How one can find a trustworthy breeder who is charging a decent price and has all their paper in place ?


Until it becomes illegal to describe an unregistered animal - cat, dog, horse etc. - as pedigree this will continue.

The only way to find a trustworthy breeder is to take time over it - lots of time. Unfortunately as there are no shows at present you can't get to meet breeders that way, but there again I've not sold a kitten to anyone who met me via a show.

Buying a registered kitten is but the first step. We've had people told when they go to collect that 'you don't need papers it's only a pet'. Yes right. Have you thought about a rescue instead? There will be BSH rescues that will be looking for indoor homes for the cats they rehome.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

While the onus is on the purchaser to not supports byb's, breeders also need to be part of the solution and neuter their kittens before adoption, it is the only 100% way to ensure a kitten remains the pet it was intended to be and never bred from. 

I would only buy from a breeder who supports ESN, among other things mentioned previously in the thread.

If you are taking the time to find a good breeder, shows may be running again by then in the UK, I have met people at shows over the years and it gives you a chance to meet lots of breeds & breeders in one place.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

@spotty cats again you go on about ESN. Not every breeder can get this done in the UK. There isnt single vet practice in our area that does this. The earliest any will do in the area where I live is 5 months for either male or female. This DOES NOT make us bad breeders. We are now back in full lockdown here and some vets are even back to inky doing emergency treatments. Luckily my vet is still vaccinating but I know two practices that are not.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Not sure why you get so defensive David, I stated my personal opinion "_I would only buy from a breeder who supports ESN"
_
Byb's have existed long before lockdown as well.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

You are lucky in Australia that your vets will do this no problem but here we dont always have that option. I would live for our kittens to leave us neutered but there are no local vets who do it. We cant chop and change vets either as they dont work like that here. 
The nearest vet to me who does ESN is 2hours away. If I registered with them to take kittens to be neutered they would request my current vets details get in contact with them for our animals records which our vet would then transfer over and then take us off their books.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

i agree about the over emphasis on early neutering. I am not even sure it is relevant in this instance. We don't know for sure the male in this case is a BSH. I can think of multiple other things I would require from a good breeder before early neutering. It would be fine as an extra but not a priority in my opinion.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

There's vets here who don't want to EN, I travel to a vet that suits my needs (and ensures i follow the local laws & regulations)
Others I know in various countries simply keep their kittens until 5-6 months.

EN is relevant in that it stops byb, which is part of the OP's problem.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

Tigermoon said:


> Look to the breed clubs. The GCCF website https://www.gccfcats.org/ apart from it's own breeder scheme, has links to their affiliated clubs and those clubs will have links to members who are breeders, most clubs will have a list of kittens who are currently available too https://www.gccfcats.org/Cat-Breeds/British-Shorthair
> 
> This doesn't absolve you of asking pertinent questions however. At the very least you need to ask directly "will the kitten be registered and fully vaccinated?", "what tests do you do on your breeding cats" and "what paperwork will the kitten come with".
> 
> Above all, try not get sucked in by cute kittens and 'sales patter', which is incredibly difficult to do I will admit and even long-time breeders can be caught out by a skilled seller. If anything at all, however small, gives you a twinge of suspicion, move on. On top of all that, be prepared to wait, over eagerness to get a kitten is probably the biggest reason for the rise in overpriced kittens being bred and sold today.


I second this - even when you find a breeder who registers their kittens with GCCF, TICA or Fife, you still have to do proper checks - if everyone was doing thing properly, we wouldn't have a suspension list.

Like Tigermoon says, walk away if anything at all feels off and try not to fall for cute pictures either (I made that mistake). Take your time - a cat is for 15-20 years, so waiting a few more months surely isn't a big sacrifice.

There are reputable show breeders who charge less than £1k for pet kittens, but I also expect the average prices to (hopefully) fall once the kitten season starts and there are more of them around - especially considering how many opportunists (?) were looking for active cats last year. At the end of the day it's a market like any other.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

AnitaF said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to purebred cats in general, many thanks in advance for your help !
> 
> I've always loved British Shorthair but never got a chance to afford one. Searching online, I've found an ad for a kitten at £1000. In order to secure my kitten I've paid a 15% deposit and I'd pay the rest on collection day, when the kitten is ready to leave after the second vaccination.
> 
> ...


As far as the pedigree cat world is concerned a cat is not a pedigree without papers. The kitten is therefore considered no different from a moggie by governing bodies. Unfortunately it sounds like you have been ripped off. I would do your best to get your deposit back, making it clear that you know you have been deliberately mislead, and RUN!!! For that money i would absolutely expect a kitten to have papers, however as @David C said, the prices of unregistered kittens have skyrocketed recently and breeders are only just beginning to raise theirs to match. Many breeders have been reluctant to do this as we dont breed for profit but found that people were buying our kittens and selling them on for a juicy profit on pet4homes or similar places. Always check the breeder out first - if you buy from a proper breeder you will get what you pay for: a healthy, happy, beautiful and well loved kitten, not a kitten who is just 'going through the mill'


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Unregistered kittens now seem to be more expensive than their papered pedigree counterparts. As most breeders can’t bring themselves to charge significantly over the odds whereas byb want to make as much money as possible. New owners often seem to ignore the cheaper actually pedigreed kittens as too cheap.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

I saw moggies advertised as BSH for close to £1k, unregistered BSH for £1.5k, but equally saw registered “rare blues and lilacs” (lol, those are the most common colours) advertised for £1.6k, so there are greeders on both sides. 

However, I know of reputable show breeders who sell for £850-950. 

Its really, really important to do some proper research.


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## AJD49 (Jan 25, 2021)

Hi,

I got a male BSH in august 2020. He was £695. He was on pets4homes and I paid £150 deposit.

He come registered with the GCFF(think that’s what it’s called) and was neutered and fully vaccinated. 

I am in the North East. I have been looking since at ones for sale and prices have gone up.


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