# HELP! Agression in deaf 16 week old American Bulldog x Puppy!



## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi,

My 16 week old American Bulldog x puppy has been showing food aggression for about a month now. We have been feeding her from her bowl bit by bit and by hand as well as training with treats etc. There hasn't been any improvement and we are looking for any help! As well as that she is aggressive if other people are eating, you can't go near her or touch her as she gets into a weird state like a zombie, blank expression unless you try and stroke her she will growl and lunge and has bit before. 

Don't know what to do with her, she is not aggressive to people or dogs in general and friendly with strangers so don't think it's her character and her parents were friendly. This isn't our first puppy we have a lab and had a springer spaniel who were easy and only faced a fear of male aggression in the lab. 

Does anyone have any help? Thanks!

Edited to add: I think at least partly a cause to this is she always used to get into the bit and we had to pull her out and she started growling when we went near her by the bin which must have escalated. The bin had been removed rather than us working on it!


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Here she is!


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

If I've ever had probs with food aggression with any of mine I've sat there with them at feeding time and took their food away, put it back....took it away....put it back....and done this till the pooch gets used it, which he will and it's stopped, this usually works ad doesn't take long, it's easier with bones because you can take these out of the bowl. I'm sure there'll be lots of god advice on this issue very soon try not to be fearful whilst you're doing it to because the dog pick up on this
Beautiful puppy by the way


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

It is important in serious food aggression of course NEVER to take the food away to begin with. If you start taking the stuff away that the dog is guarding then you teach it a valuable lesson.......

The dog's FEAR was CORRECT, someone WILL take food away unless you guard it with your life.

Sometimes deafness can exacerbate resource guarding issues as the dog has less sensory input from its surroundings to help it work out what is going on.

Hand feeding is usually the way to go, however for THIS particular dog in THIS circumstance the presence can lead to too much arousal and therefore a different approach is needed.

I would suggest a two pronged approach to your dog.

First of all I would not feed her at set meal times if you can help it, I would feed her throughout the day so that mealtimes do not become an EVENT.

I would do it whilst training.

I would also use the clicker system where correct behaviour results in the click marking the behaviour and the food being THROWN to the dog rather than given.

Of course in your dog's particular case I would replace a clicker with a torch.

In addition, I am not sure what you are feeding but if it is wet food I would replace it with a dry one to decrease the level or arousal.

This can be resolved quite easily but first you have to accept that this pup is far to highly aroused around food at the moment to progress in your current fashion.

I have posted some links which might help you.

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/resourceguardingandfoodgame.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/workingwithadeafdog.pdf

DDEAF Training Hand Signs

Help with training your deaf dog from Barry Eaton

DDEAF Training Tips


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Good post above from Smokey Bear. I would also recommend taking this very slow and even doing some TTouch (www.ttouchteam.com) with the pup. First without food at all, anywhere, then progressing to in the presence of a food bowl without any food, and then perhaps with some small pieces of low value food around. However, this should really be supervised by a trained professional, as I would not like to recommend this for a dog that will bite immediately in the presence of food. TTouch could help your dog relax and be comfortable with themselves, their surroundings, in particular you, and this can be related to the presence of food too.

The key thing at the moment though is management: reduce chances of guarding altogether if possible, and avoid any scenarios that will make your dog bite. You don't want a dog with a bite history!

Take it slow, get good help.


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Ok thanks! She is only on dry food at the moment anyway so will keep that up thanks, and only feed her in training sessions. She has done quite well in training so far! Also what can I do about the kitchen, she has to go in there as there's no door, but when she's in there can get in that strange blank, then growly state? Should I train her in there while someone's making food?
Thanks for the help so far !


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I would keep a house lead on your pup for the forseeable future, if she's deaf she won't hear you coming up to move her and could lash out at something randomly grabbing her collar, a house lead is much safer and less nerveracking for you and your pup(she's stunning BTW) and guests of course.

If she's going into a trace while people are eating i would crate her away from where ever you eat for everyones safety, if she's in a crate she's safe from getting a fright and biting and people are able to eat more comfortably and obviously can't pat her through the bars on a crate.

I would also put a babygate across the kitchen door, and probably wouldn't let her into the kitchen at all if she's getting worked up about it, or if theres no choice then have her on the house lead and distract her by throwing treats/toys etc so she can't get into that state. Personally i'd just not have her in the kitchen.

Have you considered a vibrating collar? It just gives off a gentle vibration which you could use with training to indicate something positive for your dog like getting a treat(useful for recall and a variety of other uses) or fuss.


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## boy12 (Dec 3, 2011)

The dog's FEAR was CORRECT, someone WILL take food away unless you guard it with your life.


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

boy12 said:


> The dog's FEAR was CORRECT, someone WILL take food away unless you guard it with your life.


We haven't been taking any food of her?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

daison said:


> We haven't been taking any food of her?


Don't worry - the quote was just a time waster who has copied and pasted a line from Smokeybear's post :frown2:.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

daison said:


> [Our] 16-WO AmBull-X pup has [shown] food-aggro for about a month...


how old was she on arrival?

were U aware that she was deaf before taking her on, or was it discovered later?

she's obviously a dilute, so may have VISION issues as well - 
How well does she see in dim light? Dogs normally have MUCH-better sight in dim-light than humans. 
movement without sound should snap her attention onto the moving object instantly, even at a distance.



daison said:


> *Bold added - *
> 
> We've [fed] her from her bowl bit by bit, & by hand as well, [plus trained] with treats, etc.
> There's been [no] improvement...
> ...


then for DoG's sake, DON'T TOUCH HER 

that's a learnt behavior, not a built-in one; i don't know what U did to teach it unintentionally, 
but IMO & IME of 30-odd years, it's not congenital.

I WOULD NOT =UNDER ANY CIRCS= allow ANYone to touch her while she eats, nor when food is present, 
period, until this resource-guarding issue is *entirely resolved,* & even then, _*find a pro to help: 
a credentialed trainer who uses reward-based methods, NO aversive tools or tactics, 
& who has experience with all 3 issues: RG, deaf-dogs, & aggro in all forms. *_



daison said:


> ...she is not aggro to people or dogs in general, & is friendly with strangers... don't think it's her [temperament],
> & her parents were friendly.


i am sure that her learning-experiences PLUS her deaf state have both contributed to this behavior. 
she was not 'born with it'. 


daison said:


> [She's not] our first pup, *we have a Lab* & had a Springer... [they] were easy [as pups? / as dogs?],
> & we only faced *a fear of male aggression* in the Lab.


did U rear the Springer from a pup of 8 to 12-WO?

same Q re the Lab - What age was each, on arrival? IOW, how much puppy-into-dog experience have U?

Do U still have the Lab? if so, what AGE & which gender? 
is s/he intact or desexed? [hopefully the latter.  ]

what is _*"a fear of male aggression in the Lab" *_, 
& how did U / are U dealing with that?



daison said:


> E-T-A:
> ...at least partly a cause:
> she always used to get into the *bin, & we had to pull her out -
> she [began to growl] when we [passed] her [while she was near] the bin, which must have escalated. *
> ...


i'd say that was at least 80% of the root... Unless other things were not mentioned?

did U try to *put a hand in her bowl, or LIFT her bowl as she ate* to "teach her to accept us 
around food", or to "be the pack-leader", or to "show dominance", & so forth?

that's common 'advice', but is IME utterly disastrous, as protecting one's food is normal dog-behavior; 
acting in such an intrusive, pushy way to a newly-arrived pup is virtually guaranteed to plant paranoia. 
DOGS LEARN that humans are 'givers of food' rather than takers; we PROVIDE, we are not threats. 
but this takes time, & the species' normal behavior is to defend their own food from others... other dogs, 
other pups, the cat, & so on. HUMANS are a special-case, but dogs only learn that with time.

we can save a lot of time by deliberately *teaching a pup or dog* that we're Providers, not thieves, 
not competitors -

Unfortunately, this pup had precisely the opposite lesson: *Humans took her found-food, the bin of goodies, 
AWAY - by force.* :mad5: Naturally she was outraged! Dogs believe that "finders are keepers", 
they're born scavengers & opportunistic eaters for life; she would be shocked & made very-angry by such 
incredible rudeness & outright theft.  This was an unfortunate lesson. Her deaf-state only exacerbates 
her inability to understand - it doesn't make any sense to her, one moment she was eating happily, the next 
she's being dragged bodily out of her treasure, & possibly scruffed, smacked lightly, or sees angry faces... 
it was so unfair, in her eyes, & that's ALL SHE HAS: eyes, & touch.

she cannot hear 'disapproval' as a tone of voice - it's suddenly visited upon her, instead. 
she has become sensitized, in a bad way, to TOUCH - which is most unfortunate. :nonod:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *boy12*
> 
> "The dog's FEAR was CORRECT, someone WILL take food away unless you guard it with your life."
> - *smokeybear*


S/he missed the foundation of the statement: 


> Originally Posted by *SmokeyBear*
> 
> It's important in serious food-aggro of course NEVER to take the food away...
> If you [take] stuff... that the dog is guarding, ...you teach her/him a valuable lesson:
> ...


it's a fulfilled prophecy: 
the dog *fears* that someone MIGhT take their food away, so the dog warns with a growl... 
& by heaven, someone DOES take their food!  They were RIGHT to worry...



daison said:


> We haven't been taking any food [from] her?


but U did: 
the waste-bin, which was in the dog's eyes, FOUND FOOD - & she found it, it was HERS by dog-rules. 
_YOU stole it from her by force - U're the bad-guy, & U made her fears, reality. _

that's her understanding, which is not a human-construct but a dog's instinct: 
1, to defend her own food, & 2, FOUND items belong to whoever possesses them first.

there's nothing logical in it; it's an instinctive reaction, to defend the food that means survival. 
Actually, the older pup or adult-dog who's learnt to easily surrender food items or found-treasures 
to a human, is ILLOGICAL in terms of survival: we're teaching them something convenient 
for us, but it flies in the face of all Nature's survival rules - it's only a human-invention, & any dog 
who tried to live without human-care yet continued to surrender their food to anyone who came along, 
would quickly die.  It's only BECAUSE we provide for dogs, that they can 'afford' to give-up food to us.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

daison said:


> Here she is!


look at her body-language & facial expression:

- worry lines on her brow, over her eyes

- one EAR points back; one aligns with her EYES, oriented forward: 
she's worried by something behind her, i presume the person holding her. 

- BOTH ears are lifted: she can't hear, but she's alert & tense, looking for input.

- her mouth is CLOSED; her whisker-bed is puckered, whiskers are FORWARD.
she's tense & ready to bite; she anticipates trouble, due to her past experience.

- her LEFT foreleg pushes off the person; her RIGHT points out from the elbow, wrist straight: 
a *relaxed puppy* would hang their paws, with wrists gently bent, & legs straight ahead, 
not splayed to either side in midair & tense from elbow to paw-pad.

she's alert for trouble, & is expects things to go sour any moment now... 
poor girl!


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Here is another photo of her in the same 10 secs she was being held;










Here you go to quote yourself:


> a relaxed puppy would hang their paws, with wrists gently bent, & legs straight ahead,


 and "ears forward" or whatever. If you're not going to be helpful and make misinformed judgements then don't bother replying! Also no offense but she wouldn't have bit in a million years. She is just possessive of food, not a maniac.



> she's alert for trouble, & is expects things to go sour any moment now...
> poor girl!


She is alert, the lab is below trying to play with her. She wants down to go chew his ear. Crazy!! I don't know whether you don't agree with deaf puppies, if you are one of the people that think they should be put down, but grow up!

Another photo: 









Also just to clarify, those aren't "worry lines" she is a bulldog and has a wrinkly head!


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Also in reply to you again _leashedForLife_

We never have/will touch the puppy while she is eating, or taken food away or smaked her! The bin she became very obsessed with so we removed it, swapping it for other food which she wasn't interested in. The touch comment was about when we touch her if ANY HUMAN is eating, she will growl so we again, don't do it!

We got the lab at 4 or 5 months and he was very scared of all men as had lived on a farm until sold. He eventually got over it by getting men to give him treats and now is fine if introduced slowly, he never bit or anything just growled and ran. The springer was from about 7 weeks and was fine no problems.
We got the AM when she was 8 weeks old. We found out she was deaf pretty much straight away, we didn't know before hand and she was the last puppy and was adorable so would have taken her anyway probably! Read up lot's about deaf puppies and she knows sit, paw, down etc with sign language.

Here is a video I just uploaded so you can see, she is fine! Sorry about my boyfriends commentary! Puppy Chasing Lab! - YouTube

She is not anxious or anything like you are suggestion, she is a normal happy puppy except the food possession which many people experience after finding articles and other forums online.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

leashedForLife said:


> look at her body-language & facial expression:
> 
> - worry lines on her brow, over her eyes
> 
> ...


Loads of dogs/pups are not 100% comfortable being picked up, why do you assume its more than that ?


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> and "ears forward" or whatever. If you're not going to be helpful and make misinformed judgements then don't bother replying! Also no offense but she wouldn't have bit in a million years. She is just possessive of food, not a maniac.


Your so, so kind, it's been years since an sensible person payed any attention to her, to actually read anything and then reply, as you did, well it's just so very moving to know someone has the compassion & courtesy to reply to her rubbish.

Must be Xmas spirit or something.......
.


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

daison said:


> secs she was being held;


LFL is correct. The dog is tense and worried. Whether this is is due to your handling or a general disposition is impossible to say from a few pictures.



daison said:


> There hasn't been any improvement and we are looking for any help! As well as that she is aggressive if other people are eating, you can't go near her or touch her as she gets into a weird state like a zombie, blank expression unless you try and stroke her she will growl and lunge and has bit before.


The dog is giving you clear signals that you should leave it alone and you are pressuring it by touching and stroking it. Get Jean Donaldson's Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding



> She is not anxious or anything like you are suggestion, she is a normal happy puppy except the food possession which many people experience after finding articles and other forums online.


And those are signs of an anxious or fearful dog. You rarely have an omniphobic dog or one that is anxioius about everything. Most are like yours, a few things set them off but for the most part they seem ok.


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## hyperwiz (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi

Just read all posts, some are perhaps more helpful than others......

I think your pup is lovely and looks exactly how a wrinkly breed puppy would look like. 

Years and years ago (very old person), I had a lovely boxer pup and although she wasn't deaf, she did have a bit of an issue with us going near here while she was eating.

What we did, was put a tiny amount of food in her bowl, then standing facing her while she ate so she could see us and didn't feel we were sneaking, we kept adding small amounts into her bowl until she had her entire ration. If she gets tense while you do this, stand up and do it, or don't put food in bowl, feed in a different place - on a hard floor, and toss her food to her a bit at a time, until she realises that you are ADDING food, and that it is a rewarding experience for her for you to be near while she eats. As she becomes more relaxed and accepting, you might try moving on to putting the food in her bowl and bending down to add small amounts, try and aim for 20 + additions per mealtime. So if she is fed kibble for example, 1 or 2 bits are added at a time. Don't make her wait for it, just keep adding as she's eating. You should then be able to progress to maybe 1 addition and then just standing by her while she's eating. 

I must say, I don't agree with taking food away from your dog - part of the alpha myth that I don't agree with. But, if you want to take food away, ie bacteria laden carcass found on a walk. I have found it to be better to maybe put your foot on it, ask them to 'leave it' and not bend down to take it until the dog has given way.

I'm sure you will get it sorted, training always takes as long as it takes. Best of luck :thumbup1:


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

hyperwiz said:


> Hi
> 
> Just read all posts, some are perhaps more helpful than others......
> 
> ...


Hey thanks! She let's us stand next to her when eating etc and pick the bowl up to refill when it's empty now. just the main issue is when humans are eating or any food is on the counter etc. For example one time i dropped food all over the floor, with the other dogs i just tell them to go bed etc but with her I have to leave her as nothing can entice her away from it!

Going to get that resource guarding book for some help/a trainer if I can find one soon!


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Corinthian, I have bought that book just now. i really don't think she is nervous etc. She was desperate to get down to play with the labrador in the pictures, she always jumps onto laps, in bed and on the sofa so I don't think there is a problem there?

Also, we dont touch her when she is in that state but sometimes you cant tell if she is in it, (when she is focused on food.) She is obsessed with food, been easy to train her with it but I'm sure it's not healthy and she gets enough of it!


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## Hertsgirl (Nov 17, 2011)

Sorry, I didn't read all posts in this thread nor can I offer any advice, I just wanted to say your puppy is gorgeous!


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

Hertsgirl said:


> Sorry, I didn't read all posts in this thread nor can I offer any advice, I just wanted to say your puppy is gorgeous!


Thank you! I really like the one in your sig too  Just saw he/she is a lab x american bulldog, that sounds like the best combination


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Corinthian said:


> The dog is giving... clear signals that you should leave [her] alone, & you're pressuring [her] by touching & stroking -
> Get Jean Donaldson's _'Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding'_.


an EXCELLENT reference & how-to: Short, very succinct, highly applicable, & very *safe*. 
No _'stick Ur hand in the bowl & cover the food...'_ craziness. :thumbup1:


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## daison (Dec 6, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> an EXCELLENT reference & how-to: Short, very succinct, highly applicable, & very *safe*.
> No _'stick Ur hand in the bowl & cover the food...'_ craziness. :thumbup1:


Yep I have bought it! also never heard anyone ever give advice of 'put hand in the bowl'!


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