# Breeding a Tortoise Shell?



## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Removing everything, as don't need anybody arguing or shouting. All your posts are taken into account, so i'm not shrugging them off. However like said before, it's my mums cat, her decision. Not mine. And at the moment i don't think she'll change her mind. And like said, none of the kittens (if she actually has them!) will end up in rescues or on the streets. As we care about our animals. Unlike what you guys are saying. We are NOT backyard breeders and NEVER will be.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I did write a massive missive - but erased it.

Please DO NOT breed from your moggy. You won't really get a choice of what to breed her to. The local flea ridden hoodlum who has fought to gain breeding rights will be the father. You will be giving the kittens his aggressive genes. Please don't do it.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I can't quite take in what you are suggesting and where you are discussing it. Anyway I second Spid, please don't do it. 
l


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

spid said:


> I did write a massive missive - but erased it.
> 
> Please DO NOT breed from your moggy. You won't really get a choice of what to breed her to. The local flea ridden hoodlum who has fought to gain breeding rights will be the father. You will be giving the kittens his aggressive genes. Please don't do it.


When did i say we were going to let her breed of the streets? Did you at all think we might actually be contacting someone with a male cat whom we want to breed her to? No you didn't. We just want to know if picking a male cat with a specific colour will change what colour kittens she has. And regardless if she'll have any tortoiseshell ones. (i know they'd be female if they were).

We will NOT let her breed from some random moggy in our town. We are not like that, we know better.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

3 words- don't do it, there's enough moggies of every colour & pattern already in rescue, & plenty more advertised. Wanting do do it for the 'experience' is not a valid reason to bring more moggies into the world. Be a part of the solution, not the problem (& it's a BIG problem) & get her spayed.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Just curious is the tortoiseshell gene strong?


It doesn't exist. There's no such thing.


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## bella2013 (Aug 29, 2013)

please don't breed your moggy, take a trip down the local rescue centre and see how many end up there, and if you want a friend for her get one there, please. I work at a dog rescue centre (I know its not cats) and so many young dogs and litters end up there through no fault of their own.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

RachJeremy said:


> When did i say we were going to let her breed of the streets? Did you at all think we might actually be contacting someone with a male cat whom we want to breed her to? No you didn't. We just want to know if picking a male cat with a specific colour will change what colour kittens she has. And regardless if she'll have any tortoiseshell ones. (i know they'd be female if they were).
> 
> We will NOT let her breed from some random moggy in our town. We are not like that, we know better.


Ok what tests has she had and also the tom/s in question,how do you know without testing your cat what genetic problems she may have? You will likely end up with black kittens which are hard to home.But really depends on what colour the dad is.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I really can't believe you are asking this on here - you know how this forum feels about this kind of breeding. Where are you going to find this male? If he is allowed to run free (and unneutered males spray foul and offensively so are rarely kept indoors only) then he will be mating with anything and everything. And possibly picking up all sorts of sexual diseases. 

No reputable pedigree breeder will allow you to use their stud. SO you would have to go to a byb to use one. 

You can goggle cat colour genetics - I for one won't post and help you do this. 

And as for the DNA tests you would need to do on a moggy - both mum AND Dad - well that's got to be a good £100 worth of tests each before you start!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> When did i say we were going to let her breed of the streets? Did you at all think we might actually be contacting someone with a male cat whom we want to breed her to? No you didn't. We just want to know if picking a male cat with a specific colour will change what colour kittens she has. And regardless if she'll have any tortoiseshell ones. (i know they'd be female if they were).
> 
> We will NOT let her breed from some random moggy in our town. We are not like that, we know better.


How are you going to do it then?


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

i'm sorry but i doubt very much if you will get any sort of help and encouragement to breed your moggy. you really should just spay her and let her have a lovely calm life. she really will not be missing out on not having kittens - your reason for breeding her is in fact quite a selfish reason, not at all in the best interest of the cat. please reconsider, if you wanted the experience of having kittens around why not volunteer for a local rescue as a fosterer. plenty of fosterers are needed to look after pregnant and nursing cats and you would be doing a fantastic job and helping needy cats too


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> When did i say we were going to let her breed of the streets? Did you at all think we might actually be contacting someone with a male cat whom we want to breed her to? No you didn't. We just want to know if picking a male cat with a specific colour will change what colour kittens she has. And regardless if she'll have any tortoiseshell ones. (i know they'd be female if they were).
> 
> We will NOT let her breed from some random moggy in our town. We are not like that, we know better.


So who are you going to contact to father these kittens - any pedigree breeder worth their sort will not let you use their stud - even back yard "pedigree" breeders will send you away - so who does that leave you with? You may go to the local toms house but that is all he will still be, the "local " tom - untested . Do you know anything about snap testing your girl , do you have a grand spare in case of a ceaserean? And your understanding of genetics is very poor if you dont realise the male cat colour will have an influence on kitten colour.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

wicket said:


> So who are you going to contact to father these kittens - any pedigree breeder worth their sort will not let you use their stud - even back yard "pedigree" breeders will send you away - so who does that leave you with? You may go to the local toms house but that is all he will still be, the "local " tom - untested . Do you know anything about snap testing your girl , do you have a grand spare in case of a ceaserean? And your understanding of genetics is very poor if you dont realise the male cat colour will have an influence on kitten colour.


And what will/could her cat catch!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you want the experience of raising kittens, ring round your local rescues to see if they need some fosterers.

Otherwise can only second all the pleas for you to not add to the excessive number of moggies in the world.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh dear .... I want her to have kittens ... Take the advice love ... Don't do it ... If you think breeding is all rosey and nice think again when it goes wrong it goes seriously wrong ... You don't have her best interests at heart do you all for selfish reasons, the best thing you can do is spay


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

If breeding was something you truly felt you wanted to do it would be best to breed from pedigree cats, as with your moggy it is not possible to know her parentage which could hinder the health of the progeny by her being a carrier of a hereditary disease to which would be unknown. It wouldnt then be possible to know the temperament of her parents which could come out in her offspring.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Who is the experience for ???? Your little girl , or you ???? 

She does not need to experience motherhood or the potential problems that may arise from you putting her through this .... Or the fact , that without proper testing both for her and the tom ( where's he coming from) you are potentially opening up a can of worms imo.....

Spay her please , and just love her for her beauty , and companionship...

I can't get my head around whether this is an Experience or an EXPERIMENT 

And that little tortie is innocently caught up in the middle .


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Not being funny here, i know full well the issue with rescue cats... Please note, this is my mum's cat, and it is really her decision, and she's not going to change her mind. I am just curious about the colour gene. 

As for the kittens ending up homeless... You really think we'd be that heartless? When we bred other animals in the past, we never sold them, we gave them away to family and friends for nothing. And kept in touch with them all. If by any chance several of them didn't find homes, they didn't go anywhere! So if anything we could end up with a house full of cats. 

She will eventually be spayed, like said it's a one off and she'll be spayed. 

You guys don't even stop to ask about Sasha's history... She's had all the tests done and so far is 100% healthy... Miracle since she infact was found at 4 weeks old in a garden by my mum. The people who bred her constantly bred the mum. She was the last kitten who hadn't sold (yes 4 weeks, they'd sold all but Sasha at 4 weeks or earlier - i think the mum had died) so they just chucked her in the garden and hoped for the best. She was skinny and weak when my mum found her by chance when she went to a property after being called out to check the property for the land lord. We have saved Sasha. And we have rescued cats in the past. 

Ben our current 19 year old was a rescue along with his sister who sadly got run over. 
My mum used to take in cats for foster from rescues...

So before you judge you need to think. My mum wouldn't be doing this if she hadn't considered the outcome. If she ends up with 8+ cats then so be it. She's fine with that. She will not let kittens end up on the streets or in a rescue. We are not like that. And i'm insulting to think you all think we are. We are thinking it through anyway, however my mum wants kittens. Who am i to tell her she can't? 

You try telling that to a breeder of an actual breed. Because they won't like it.

If anything please go and shout at people who actually allow their cats to breed willy-nilly all year round just to gain a profit from the kittens. Because they are the people you need to be shouting at. Not us. 

Like said in a previous post, we will not breed from her until she's old enough anyway, and she'll be visiting the vets to make sure she's fine to breed and so far we've had the discussion with the vets and they haven't said it's wrong and have merely given us advice on what to do. 
Plus we know several people with tom cats who are actually lovely cats. Like said, we are not going to allow her to breed to a random cat. 
But if there is any doubt or any issues with her health before we breed her, then she won't be bred. 


But bottom line. I am not the one you should be shouting at, nor my mum. Because we are not going to do anything that you have all just accused me of. 

And now i'm going to walk away from this topic and this forum again till this cools off.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

RachJeremy said:


> Not being funny here, i know full well the issue with rescue cats... Please note, this is my mum's cat, and it is really her decision, and she's not going to change her mind. I am just curious about the colour gene.
> 
> As for the kittens ending up homeless... You really think we'd be that heartless? When we bred other animals in the past, we never sold them, we gave them away to family and friends for nothing. And kept in touch with them all. If by any chance several of them didn't find homes, they didn't go anywhere! So if anything we could end up with a house full of cats.
> 
> ...


So what tests is it shes had?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

So which genetic tests has she had? Pra,HCM, pkd? The heart scan?which lab did. Them?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

No-one has shouted. We all agree that she should be spayed, not bred.

Your kittens may not end up homeless, but all the people they go to could have given a cat or kitten stuck in a rescue a home instead.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> Not being funny here, i know full well the issue with rescue cats... Please note, this is my mum's cat, and it is really her decision, and she's not going to change her mind. I am just curious about the colour gene.
> 
> As for the kittens ending up homeless... You really think we'd be that heartless? When we bred other animals in the past, we never sold them, we gave them away to family and friends for nothing. And kept in touch with them all. If by any chance several of them didn't find homes, they didn't go anywhere! So if anything we could end up with a house full of cats.
> 
> ...


that's exactly why i would spay her and love her for who she is. she's come a long way and you could potentially do her harm when there is no need.

i'm afraid i don't think much of your vets if he/she is actually happy with this situation.

i too will walk away now as i don't want to say something that may be hurtful and get me banned.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

i would advise you to read up on genetics as before you consider breeding it would be best for you to be able to know what possible outcomes would come from different matings.


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## bella2013 (Aug 29, 2013)

RachJeremy said:


> We are thinking it through anyway, however my mum wants kittens. Who am i to tell her she can't?
> 
> You try telling that to a breeder of an actual breed. Because they won't like it.
> 
> off.


if my mum 'wanted kittens' id take her to sit in a kitten room at a rescue centre for a few hours, and show her want she's contributing to.

In my opinion responsible breeders have considered every option and every financial and emotional responsibility before they even decide to breed and cat.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> You guys don't even stop to ask about Sasha's history... She's had all the tests done and so far is 100% healthy... Miracle since she infact was found at 4 weeks old in a garden by my mum. The people who bred her constantly bred the mum. She was the last kitten who hadn't sold (yes 4 weeks, they'd sold all but Sasha at 4 weeks or earlier - i think the mum had died) so they just chucked her in the garden and hoped for the best. She was skinny and weak when my mum found her by chance when she went to a property after being called out to check the property for the land lord. We have saved Sasha.
> 
> So before you judge you need to think. My mum wouldn't be doing this if she hadn't considered the outcome. If she ends up with 8+ cats then so be it. She's fine with that. She will not let kittens end up on the streets or in a rescue. We are not like that. And i'm insulting to think you all think we are. We are thinking it through anyway, however my mum wants kittens. Who am i to tell her she can't?
> 
> ...


So poor Sasha has already had a hard start in life - do you have any idea how much it takes out of a cat to have a litter of kittens? As for knowing other people who have "lovely " tom cats unless they are pedigree and in stud quarters lovely as they are they will be contributing to the unwanted moggy population ever time they go out of the door.

As for shouting, I cant hear any, just a lot of heads banging on walls :mad2:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MrRustyRead said:


> i would advise you to read up on genetics as before you consider breeding it would be best for you to be able to know what possible outcomes would come from different matings.


and genetic tests that are needed..probably everyone out there as her history/parentage is unknown.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> and genetic tests that are needed..probably everyone out there as her history/parentage is unknown.


yup, no one wants to breed sickly kittens.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I cannot hear any shouting ... It's all good advice .... If I walked into my vets with my mogg and said is she ok to breednfrom I would be shown the door ... Health test go alot deeper than I quick trip to the vets , as mention... It's just not her it's the Tom ....

If you truly think us breeders breed our girls willy nilly and only do it to make money you are very naive ...


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Even if you find good homes for all these kittens, they will be usurping the place of the ones that are now in rescues looking for homes.

Moreover, the tests a vet routinely does on a moggy don't say anything about genetic predispositions for the various diseases she may give to the kittens.

I have 2 moggies with a heart murmur, one of them the highest grade but one. This may be hereditary, but that doesn't mean their mother had it, too, she may simply have been a carrier. So without specifically testing for this gene, the mother's owners will never know their cat may produce offspring with this heart condition.

However, Romeo's heart murmur is so severe he cannot have any surgery without previous testing. He will need an X-ray, and maybe an ultrasound, to assess the exact nature of his heart condition, and they will have to choose the type of anaesthesia depending on the results. It is even possible he does not take well to any form of anaesthesia and may die on the table. 

He was only sedated for neutering for this very reason. So any condition he might develop that requires surgery will cost me a fortune and may cost him his life, and even if he stays healthy in all other respects, he will probably not get old due to his wonky heart.

That is the kind of risk you run by breeding cats without testing them for hereditary heart diseases, kidney diseases, bone and joint problems, and loads and loads of other genetic predispositions that might surface in the offspring. And you will need to run all these tests on the tom, too.

Oh, and of course you need to have both of them tested for corona, FIV and FeLV, too.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I really shouldnt comment on this thread today but im going to.....

ok, i read alot about making money from breeding, unless you cut corners how do you do this, i am thousands in debt from breeding, would be nice to know how a profit is made just for an easier life.

I took in a pregnant rescue, yes she had cute kittens until i have now discovered one or 2 kittens are deaf, now with proper tests and breeding plans using health tested parents this most likely wouldnt have happened but because somebody thought hey this is a great idea, i am now left to pick up the pieces and try my best to find the most suitable homes for them and thats not going to be easy.

It doesnt matter what anybody says here, your mum has already decided so i hope mum and kittens are born healthy with no dead babies as this is heart wrenching.

Im off now, said my piece.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

RachJeremy said:


> Not being funny here, i know full well the issue with rescue cats... Please note, this is my mum's cat, and it is really her decision, and she's not going to change her mind. I am just curious about the colour gene.
> 
> As for the kittens ending up homeless... You really think we'd be that heartless? When we bred other animals in the past, we never sold them, we gave them away to family and friends for nothing. And kept in touch with them all. If by any chance several of them didn't find homes, they didn't go anywhere! So if anything we could end up with a house full of cats.
> 
> ...


Sorry but you rescued her & now want to _breed_ from her? :frown2: Doesn't your mum think she's been through enough in her short life already without the added burden of making her make kittens for nothing more than gratification?

You may not think you are like those people who breed 'willy nilly' but I guarantee you're more alike than you think.

Poor little cat


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

wicket said:


> ? And your understanding of genetics is very poor if you dont realise the male cat colour will have an influence on kitten colour.


I am not going to condone what is planned here - but if the criteria for being allowed to breed is knowing what colours a mating will produce, then there are plenty of threads on here that show "proper" breeders failing the test miserably.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

OP, I'm afraid this thread has made me cry 

I took Libby as a rescue from CC, after she'd been allowed to get pregnant way too young, and after a very traumatic pregnancy where she ended up losing all the kittens and nearly died herself. Please don't so this, and please, please try to stop your mum.

I've always had adult cats, and always rescues who've been neutered. I totally adore kittens and would LOVE to have a kitten or kitts to raise, but I would never, ever look to a rescue cat to produce them. In fact, knowing the heartbreak and stress CC went through with Libby I'd never breed a cat myself but get a kitten from a reputable breeder or a rescue.

Please ask your mum to put the welfare of this little girl first and not use her to breed from, even if it's "only once" - she's already had a rough start from what you've told us and deserves to be cherished and have her interests put above those of us, often quite selfish, humans.


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