# Countdown To Labour - Blue's Thread



## Mummy24

I thought it would be easier all round if i created a thread and just kept adding information on here  haha 

Day 1 

After being sure she would start labour last night we are now unsure if she is or isnt in the first stages. She was restless last night but also very sleepy. We recorded a temperature of 35.1'C at 8pm and she starting panting at 9pm for half an hour but it soon subsided. No other signs except for the fact she was restless again this morning. Going to start taking temperature 3 times a day starting at 10am today


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## kiara

hows everything going? x


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## Mummy24

kiara said:


> hows everything going? x


hey hun

well she is off her food, eating little amounts but nowhere near as ravenous as she usually is. I just took her temperature and its 37.4'C so i will retake at 6pm tonight to keep track of it 

She has been quite restless the last few days and started panting last night for around 30 minuets and she started panting again this morning for around 10 minuets.

Ill keep you all updated!


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## Mummy24

oh my! 

6pm temp reading was 97.7 F! She's eating but not as hungry as she was. No nesting or any other signs. Should i check again at 9pm and if its the same call the vet to warn them?


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## kiara

things do sound promising. the temp normally drops and then stays dropped for a while before labour starts. i would re check at 9 and make the vet is aware of the last 3 readings. 

has there been any other signs? urinating more frequently, pooing more, any wet patches?

i would keep your male dog separated for now as she may hold on to them if she doesnt feel secure. and do not let her out of your sight.

the first stages can have very subtle changes. i knew when my bitch started as she had a different look in her eyes.


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## Mummy24

Im not sure about the urination and pooing as she's been in and out all day so we've not kept track. However there were a few small puddles of water at around 11am where she was laying previously, not sure if they were from her though :/

I keep telling mum that but she wont listen lol ill try and tell her again. So looking forward to taking her temp again, seriously hope its still low


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## kiara

any of these signs and you need to contact a vet urgently;
*
straining for more than an hour without producing a puppy.

Green discharge before a puppy is born is very bad.

Bright red blood is a sign of a uterine rupture and requires emergency veterinary attention or your bitch will likely die.
*
Remember, you should be counting the placentas as they are delivered and there should be the same number of placentas as there were puppies.

*more info here*: Whelping Complications - Thinking Of Breeding


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## kiara

Mummy24 said:


> Im not sure about the urination and pooing as she's been in and out all day so we've not kept track. However there were a few small puddles of water at around 11am where she was laying previously, not sure if they were from her though :/
> 
> I keep telling mum that but she wont listen lol ill try and tell her again. So looking forward to taking her temp again, seriously hope its still low


show her this thread. the information i have been giving you is from a very experienced breeder from this forum. i would take her word more then anyone else.


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## MaisyMoomin

Our girl had a night of mild digging, restless then in the morning a wet patch - sack had burst - 1/2hrs later no pup so we went straight to the vets had an oxytocin jab which resulted in 1 pup being born on the way home, the rest at home, she was very big & wasnt able to contract without the injection.
I'd be keeping a very close eye on what's coming out of her & her bits etc.
Good luck!


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## Mummy24

Thanks guys! 1hr till I recheck her temp, hopefully it'll still be low And I can call the vets


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## Mummy24

Temp is now reading 37.6c. Called the vet and described symptoms and she refine we're in the first stage. I thought her temp had to be lower for that? Lol.


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## AmberNero

How are you feeling? Hows Blue doing? xx


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## Mummy24

I'm very nervous and anxious. Blues sleeping in her whelping box in a nice quiet room. The vet is sure they'll be here by Monday but her temp is still too high isn't it?


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## kiara

what date did your male dog come back? x


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## Mummy24

He came back on the 8th of March x


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## Mummy24

She's now started licking and chewing her rear leg, is this a sign?


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## kiara

as you dont know her ovulation dates i would say she was 64 days today. so due yesterday. i would definitely want to see pups by Friday at the very latest. x


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## kodakkuki

can you place your hand on her belly and hold it there a few mins?
if you can, feel for contractions/movement... she could well be starting...


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## kiara

Mummy24 said:


> She's now started licking and chewing her rear leg, is this a sign?


it could be, could she possibly be trying to get to her vulva but maybe cannot reach?

can you see any discharge? x


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## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> He came back on the 8th of March x


That's exactly 9 weeks (63 days) ago.
But you don't know if he mated her that day, or if he did, whether she had already ovulated, or did so a day or two later. So that does give you a few days' leeway. As I said on your other thread, even planned and witnessed matings are subject to this variation.



Mummy24 said:


> She's now started licking and chewing her rear leg, is this a sign?


It could be. She may be feeling the start of some pain and excessive chewing/licking can be a distraction behaviour. But they can also get mild twinges before labour really gets going.

PS: the pups may not be moving if she is in the early stages of labour - they will be in their birth positions and waiting in line for the main event.


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## Mummy24

Thankyou. Ill try that now, what sort of sensation should I be feeling?


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## kiara

it will feel like a tightening or go harder. x


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## Mummy24

fab, well mums just taken her outside for the toilet and to have a walk around. She's with her all the way and she's on a lead.Once she's back in her bed ill have a feel and let you know asap  
Should i keep checking her temp or is 37.5'C a low enough reading?


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## Mummy24

i dont know if i mentioned but there have also been small puddles of water on the floor. We cant be sure if they are coming from her or not, what would this be?


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## kate_7590

Sorry have nothing to add to this but just wanted to wish you all the best of luck!!


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## kiara

Mummy24 said:


> i dont know if i mentioned but there have also been small puddles of water on the floor. We cant be sure if they are coming from her or not, what would this be?


the puddles could be her waters breaking. what colour was it? x


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## Mummy24

kiara said:


> the puddles could be her waters breaking. what colour was it? x


the puddles are clear like normal water, but a bit thicker. the first three tiny ones were at around 11am and we found another around 8pm x


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## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> i dont know if i mentioned but there have also been small puddles of water on the floor. We cant be sure if they are coming from her or not, what would this be?


The babies might be pressing on her bladder - have you sniffed the liquid to see if it is urine?

Personally I'd leave the temperature taking for now. She needs rest, peace and quiet, supervised company and allowed to take her own time. The onset of labour may be stressful for her so any unnecessary handling may add to this.


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## kiara

This is when things start to get really interesting! Hard contractions begin and the dam will hold her breath during her pushing and probably grunt in time with the contractions. *The waters break at this time and you may notice a puddle or yellowy clear liquid. *(Picture to follow). She make have a few breaks in between pushing where she is shivering quite harshly.... be sure to tell the difference between shivering and twitching. Twitching is bad and a sign of eclampsia, which requires veterinary attention IMMEDIATELY.

taken from Whelping - Thinking Of Breeding


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## Mummy24

haha yeah i had a sneaky sniff definitly not urine lol


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## kiara

any changes? x


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## Mummy24

She's sleeping at the moment but grunting in her sleep and she never grunts, contractions?


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## kodakkuki

very possibly contractions. keep an eye that she doesn't tire herself out before the real work begins- or else you'll have an expensive emergency trip for a simple oxytocin shot...


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## Sleeping_Lion

If they are contractions, put your hand on her side, you'll feel them rather than hear them. 

I really do suggest you ditch the thermometer for now and go on how she is in herself.


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## Mummy24

Where abouts do I feel for them and do they just feel like tightenings? Mums starting to panic lol so want to reassure her. On yes The thermometer has been ditched


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## Sleeping_Lion

kodakkuki said:


> very possibly contractions. keep an eye that she doesn't tire herself out before the real work begins- or else you'll have an expensive emergency trip for a simple oxytocin shot...


Not unless she's passed a pup, if oxytocin is adminstered when a bitch isn't actually ready, it can cause more problems. Personally, I wouldn't let a vet use oxytocin unless a bitch had already passed a pup, alive or dead.


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## MerlinsMum

Mild ones probably, gearing up.

Quiet calm and stress-free as much as possible.... stress is like a glass of water which starts off empty and is slowly filled up with drops or dribbles or larger amounts until it's full. It can take days or weeks to fully drain itmif it gets overfilled. The pregnancy and coming whelping will be adding to it enough.

I used to sit with my feline girls at this stage and talk nonsense to them, even read aloud from a book, they liked the sound of my voice. Gentle music in the background, or even a talk radio station won't hurt, especially if it keeps you awake!


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## Sleeping_Lion

Mummy24 said:


> Where abouts do I feel for them and do they just feel like tightenings? Mums starting to panic lol so want to reassure her. On yes The thermometer has been ditched


The whole of her chest will be contracting, but particularly down towards her loin, all the muscles will be telling her to push, so you should feel it.

Edited to add, it could be quite a few minutes apart, but you will, if you are watching her closely, see something happening.


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## Mummy24

The grunts sound like she's snoring? But she never snores lol


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## kodakkuki

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Not unless she's passed a pup, if oxytocin is adminstered when a bitch isn't actually ready, it can cause more problems. Personally, I wouldn't let a vet use oxytocin unless a bitch had already passed a pup, alive or dead.


goodness i should of elaborated!!!!
yes, that's what i meant- mid labour she may tire and end up needing a shot if she still keeps walking/pasing about only to lie down and grunt and pant Excessively...

but no oxy until a pup is here!!!!!!


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## Mummy24

Thankyou so much for all your help


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## MerlinsMum

OK.... smooth her and calm her. Talk to her. Firm stroking when the contraction ripples occur can help. Do your utmost to keep her calm, I know easily said, and keep yourself calm too, try to reassure her it's all ok.

Agree with Sleepinglion, no oxytocin before the first puppy. It can lead to rupture.

This is when it's important to have a mentor at hand on the phone, I know you don't have this OP but you have us


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## Mummy24

Thankyou!

Snoring like sounds have stopped, it seems to stop and start. It's very rhythmic like normal snoring, what could this be?


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## MerlinsMum

Do you have anything on hand to offer her during the whelping? They can become very tired asit can take 6 hours or more, I already mentioned vanilla ice cream but warmed goats milk with honey and an egg beaten into it is also good.


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## Sleeping_Lion

A long night. 

Joking aside, just stay with her, and let her be, if she needs a bit of comfort, be there for her.


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## Mummy24

Yeah we got ice cream an goats milk for her. We've also got some ice cubes if that's any good?


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## Sleeping_Lion

I spent 36 hours with Tau after her waters broke, the final straw was when she came and stuck her head in my hands, as if to tell me it wasn't going to happen on it's own. 

My advice, keep her calm, let her just settle down, and stay calm, don't keep doing things, just let it happen.


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## Mummy24

Thanks guys 
Ill keep you all updated, hope your all nocturnal haha


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## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Yeah we got ice cream an goats milk for her. We've also got some ice cubes if that's any good?


Energy, and calcium are the main things. 
With my cats during kittening or just after, even if they wouldn't touch milk normally, if I offered them some warmed formula or goats milk with a bit of honey and an egg beaten in, they looked at me in wonder and relief (no other way to describe it) as if it was exactly what they wanted.


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## Sleeping_Lion

I'm here till the whiskey runs out, which is about half an hour, if you want a horror story however, I could tell you the vets bill I ended up for an emergency c-section and trying to save two pups!! 

Joking aside, it is a long hard slog, I do hope you're prepared for what's to come after the pups arrive.


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## Mummy24

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm here till the whiskey runs out, which is about half an hour, if you want a horror story however, I could tell you the vets bill I ended up for an emergency c-section and trying to save two pups!!
> 
> Joking aside, it is a long hard slog, I do hope you're prepared for what's to come after the pups arrive.


As prepared as we can be lol seeing as we've only known since Tuesday lmao


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## we love bsh's

MerlinsMum said:


> OK.... smooth her and calm her. Talk to her. Firm stroking when the contraction ripples occur can help. Do your utmost to keep her calm, I know easily said, and keep yourself calm too, try to reassure her it's all ok.
> 
> Agree with Sleepinglion, no oxytocin before the first puppy. It can lead to rupture.
> 
> This is when it's important to have a mentor at hand on the phone, I know you don't have this OP but you have us


We had a cat given oxytocin after a kit was born dead and not getting anywhere big kit 121g,she still ended up rupturing and had to have a section then was spayed at same time,we ended up with two live kits and two dead.Breeding isn't always rosie is it.


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## Mummy24

Well guys mums doing the early shift so I'm off to bed till 4am when it's my turn to get up lol ill update with any news then!


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## Sleeping_Lion

To be honest, the long hard slog is worth it, once you see the pups start to thrive, but if you have any problems, and I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy, it is bl**dy hard. 

Once the pups arrive, for the first 48 hours, expect to be sleepless, you will worry so much. After that, expect your washing bill to go up, you need vetbedding, if you having got it already, and it needs to be replaced regularly, so three times a day minimum in my experience. Mum will clean up wee and poo, but then when the pups hit the 4/5 week stage, the real hard work begins!! 

Have you chosen a food to wean pups on to yet? If not, get it ordered asap once the pups arrive


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## Mummy24

Okay so ive just started my nightshift haha, mum said theres been nothing happening overnight. She's been perfectly normal so im gonna check her temp at 4.30am 

so far the readings have been: 

Yesterday

12pm- 99.5
4.00pm - 97.7
8pm - 99.5


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## Mummy24

She's just woke and had a massive drink. She's scratching her face alot with her back leg and shaking herself off. There's alot of movement in the abdomen, don't know whether its pups or contractions lol but its not bothering her so i guess its pupps

Temperature Update: 

Yesterday 

12pm - 99.5
4pm - 97.7
8pm- 99.5 

Today 

4.15am - 99.14

After id finished taking her temp which she is a pro at now she took off to the whelping box to go back to sleep. When i took her outside to go to the toilet i noticed something weird. When she squats to go for a wee i noticed the area between her anus and vagina sort of moving as such while she was going? Like it was wobbling, going in and out?


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## Bijou

You don't know when she was mated or the date of her ovulation so she may simply not be ready to give birth yet , has she lost the mucous plug yet ? ( stringy discharge ) , if she has this is a good indication that things will start to happen soon, just before the birth the pups stop moving around and get into position so if you are still feeling lots of movement she's probably not ready yet.

Try not to panic , keep a close eye on her and inspect her rear end for any discharge regularly and offer her tasty small meals little and often and gentle excercise if she wants it


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## Mummy24

thankyou. 

Im panicking mainly because ive read once it drops, if labour doesnt start within 24hrs then to call the vet immediately. We havent noticed any discharge however we have found small puddles of water around the house that asnt urine x


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## kodakkuki

Any news? 
When you say about between the anus and vulva, what kind of movement to you mean?


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## Mummy24

shes left the whelping room to go and sleep with mum in her bedroom with the other dogs. I keep going to check on her but shes just sleeping. She did start panting for about 30 second but stopped again. 

Its like it was going in and out, like spasms


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## Darth

It sounds to me like she's very close.....stay calm, remember its a natural thing to give birth....she'll know what to do. 

I always make notes of contraction times, and birth times, just in case things go on too long. 

When the whelping starts you tend to get so involved time gets all confused.

Good luck


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## Mummy24

thankyou  

my nerves are all over the place as im just waiting for it to start and then im panicking encase theres something wrong i dont know about. Ill update you all with the latest temp reading at 8am, what makes you think shes close?


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## Mummy24

right temp just taken at 98.98 F 

So far: 

12pm - 99.5
4pm - 97.7
8pm - 99.5
4am - 99.1
6am- 99.14
8am - 98.9


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## Darth

what makes you think shes close?

Because the water around the floor could be her waters breaking (I've seen it in a big puddle but also smaller amounts intermittently) and the bulge you can see could be a puppy in position for birth.

Has she been going out for frequent toilets? If she does you must watch her just in case she passes a puppy, sometimes they get the feeling to push for birth and emptying bowels mixed up.


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## Mummy24

no more frequently than usual but yes i always go out with her when she goes to the toilet haha. She's up sleeping on mums bed atm with mum whose getting a sleep but im checking on her every half an hour


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## MaisyMoomin

Sounds like a sack you can see, look anything like this pic! (Not the text) Whelping Puppies, Whelping trouble
We didn't leave it more than 30mins after seeing the sack & fluid loss incase a pup was stuck as our girl wasn't contracting atall. Sounds like she must be close to welping, I'd stay with her every minute.


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## Mummy24

just rechecked the temp and its back up to 99.68 so thats 

12pm - 99.5
4pm - 97.7
8pm - 99.5
4am - 99.1
6am- 99.14
8am - 98.9
10am - 99.68 

what do you guys recon?


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## MaisyMoomin

I would go on how she's looking/ progressing not the temperature, even experienced people taking the temp can get it wrong so I wouldnt use it as evidence of anything! 
We did have success 1st time taking temp but we'd been doing it for weeks in advance and charted so knew what times of day our dogs temp varied naturally etc.


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## Darth

I've never taken temperatures, it's so easy to get it wrong.

Just watch her closely and wait for the contractions.


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## Mummy24

okay guys thankyou 
i think ill still take temp as it makes me feel better lol like im doing something to help but unless theres a huge drop i wont pay it much attention just record it down encase the vets need it at all if something were to go wrong


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## Mummy24

also should i be concerned that she has been producing milk from tuesday but no pups yet?


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## SusieRainbow

I can't really see the point of temperature readings, they don't really seem to tell you anything and the dog's behaviour is easier to observe and interpret. You'll know she's ready when she starts pushing sure enough! 
Also, you'll have other indicators if she becomes ill , such as panting, twitching, whining, so just check her temp if that happens. It must be uncomfortable have a rectal temperature taken. 
That's just my opinion, I'm not a dog expert and have never bred, but was a human midwife for 40+ years !


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## we love bsh's

SusieRainbow said:


> I can't really see the point of temperature readings, they don't really seem to tell you anything and the dog's behaviour is easier to observe and interpret. You'll know she's ready when she starts pushing sure enough!
> Also, you'll have other indicators if she becomes ill , such as panting, twitching, whining, so just check her temp if that happens. It must be uncomfortable have a rectal temperature taken.
> That's just my opinion, I'm not a dog expert and have never bred, but was a human midwife for 40+ years !


I agree im not a fan of temp taking obviously we breed cats,i wouldn't like to put the extra stress on mum I like to just leave her be after all its very obvious when things are moving.


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## Sleeping_Lion

Another not a fan of shoving a thermometer up their jacksy every five mins, honestly, the only thing it seems to be doing is making you worry that she's not actually started yet. Step away from the thermometer, calm down, and let your bitch just have some peace and quiet. She may well be hanging on to them if she's feeling like there's too much going on  

Encourage her to sleep in the whelping box as much as possible, I slept on the kitchen floor for about two weeks (before and after the pups arrived), it was a wee bit uncomfortable, Tau sort of slept half on me, half in the whelping box. But she needs to be comfortable and happy with the whelping box. 

I forgot whether you said you'd got vet bed? I thought I saw something about a sleeping bag somewhere?? If you haven't got any, then you need to get vet bed asap, because it needs to be washable to avoid infection. I got through three large pieces per day for pretty much the duration of the litter thinking about it, so you need four large pieces at least to always have a dry one in reserve.


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## Mummy24

thanks guys haha
i just took her last thermometer reading and im not doing it anymore on your advice. We've got vetbed  we've got the whelping bed ready and she slept in it for the majority of last night.


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## Mummy24

one last thermometer question lol your all gonna hate me!
Her last three readings have been exactly the same 99.68 F. It appears to have stablised. Is this a good sign? what would you say the timeframe was from here?


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## Sleeping_Lion

Unless you can be sure the readings are accurate, and you haven't hit the bowel wall at all when taking them, they honestly mean nothing.  

Your girl will have her pups when she's ready, no matter what temperature reading you get from her, and it's easier to read the physical signs from them than it is to take a temperature.


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## Firedog

I'm not into taking temperatures either,just be careful you don't cause an infection.


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## SusieRainbow

There's an ancient midwives saying - when the fruit's ripe it will drop.

( probably not very helpful under the circumstances )


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## Mummy24

Thanks guys

She just passed some fluid, I had to wipe it away. Is this normal?


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## Westy

Temperature can be a very useful tool both to predict the time for whelping and also even more useful to alert when there is a problem and the bitch needs unzipping. 
But the art is learning how to interprete the results and the correct way to take a rectal temperature, both of which which take some time to perfect and so I agree now is not the time to be learning with so many other things to be things about.


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## Mummy24

Guys is the picture normal? I'm worried lol


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## SusieRainbow

That looks like a speck of old blood, probably the remains of the mucous plug ( 'show' in humans.) As long as it's specks of old blood, no fresh blood or green meconium I don't think there's anything to worry about. 
Looks like things are moving , how is she in herself ?


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## Mummy24

Thank god lol I was very worried when I saw it. At the moment she's sleeping under the table again, that's all she's being doing lol


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## canuckjill

I am pretty sure people here will be checking in all day on this thread, so keep us updated...I predict in the next 24 hours...


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## we love bsh's

I think you may find things are starting to happen.


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## Mummy24

omg eeek lol dont get me too excited! haha
she wasnt off her food earlier but shes just woken up and gone into the kitchen so not sure. Looks like ill be on dog patrol again all night  Ill be keeping you updated all night haha


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## Freyja

Not all bitches go off their food one of my whippets scoffed a big bowl full half an hour before producing the first of what turned out to be 10 pups.


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## Mummy24

that would make sense then as she hasnt gone off food. She's very lethargic, sleeping alot and for reason chewing her back leg repeatedly? lol


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## blossom21

Why am I holding my breath,its not my dog having pups. I cant wait to hear how she goes on,bless her all so exciting.I shall be glued to my laptop tonight,dont keep us waiting to long Blue. hmy:


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## Mummy24

woah! her temp just jumped up to 100.2'F :O


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## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> woah! her temp just jumped up to 100.2'F :O


I thought you wernt doing her temp no more.

No offence op but I kind of feel a little sorry for her now really id leave her be.


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## Mummy24

She doesn't mind lol she was sleeping and didn't even stir while I took it


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## canuckjill

I would leave the temp to be honest, not all that reliable and you may be hitting stool thus a higher temp. she will progress with or without a temp reading


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## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> She doesn't mind lol she was sleeping and didn't even stir while I took it


You could do more harm than good though,you were the one who said you wernt going to do it no more.

The pups will come when they come and if shes sleeping as you say she is id doubt it will be just yet.


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## Mummy24

Mummy24 said:


> He came back on the 8th of March x





Sleeping_Lion said:


> If they are contractions, put your hand on her side, you'll feel them rather than hear them.
> 
> I really do suggest you ditch the thermometer for now and go on how she is in herself.





we love bsh's said:


> We had a cat given oxytocin after a kit was born dead and not getting anywhere big kit 121g,she still ended up rupturing and had to have a section then was spayed at same time,we ended up with two live kits and two dead.Breeding isn't always rosie is it.





Westy said:


> Temperature can be a very useful tool both to predict the time for whelping and also even more useful to alert when there is a problem and the bitch needs unzipping.
> But the art is learning how to interprete the results and the correct way to take a rectal temperature, both of which which take some time to perfect and so I agree now is not the time to be learning with so many other things to be things about.





we love bsh's said:


> I thought you wernt doing her temp no more.
> 
> No offence op but I kind of feel a little sorry for her now really id leave her be.


Okay guys I apologise lol it's just The excitement of possibly knowing when she'll start


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## we love bsh's

canuckjill said:


> I would leave the temp to be honest, not all that reliable and you may be hitting stool thus a higher temp. she will progress with or without a temp reading


that's just my worry if anything like cats they wont progress if you mess with them too much.


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## Sleeping_Lion

I will drive over and confiscate that thermometer, if you're not careful, the first pup born is going to have the darn thing sticking out of it's ear! 

Let her get on with it, and keep calm yourself, jumping all over the place will not provide the most restful of situations for her. 

Have you got a bed set up next to her whelping box? If not, I'd get a makeshift one set up, I literally slept on the floor, but I'm a hardy old thing, I doubt if I could add any more creaky joints.


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## we love bsh's

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I will drive over and confiscate that thermometer, if you're not careful, the first pup born is going to have the darn thing sticking out of it's ear!
> 
> Let her get on with it, and keep calm yourself, jumping all over the place will not provide the most restful of situations for her.
> 
> Have you got a bed set up next to her whelping box? If not, I'd get a makeshift one set up, I literally slept on the floor, but I'm a hardy old thing, I doubt if I could add any more creaky joints.


lol I had to laugh at the first part he he.


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## Mummy24

Haha okok mums confiscated the thermometer haha. She's back sleeping under the table again lol. Mum panicked at the discharge so has called the vet for reassurance just waiting for a call back.


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## Sleeping_Lion

It looked to me as if it was possibly the mucous plug, if so, then things will start moving, as long as you leave her to get on with it.


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## Mummy24

Yeah Hun I'm sure it's the mucus plug but mum freaked so I'm sure a quick chat over the phone with the vet will ease her mind. Hopefully blue will get started tonight eh


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I would sleep down with her in her whelping box tonight, well, not in her whelping box but next to her whelping box, and keep an eye/ear open for her.


----------



## Darth

Did you know that bitches can hold back from giving birth if they don't feel everything's ok?

You don't want to get into that situation with her, if I were you I'd just observe from now on.


----------



## we love bsh's

Darth said:


> Did you know that bitches can hold back from giving birth if they don't feel everything's ok?
> 
> You don't want to get into that situation with her, if I were you I'd just observe from now on.


Yes that's right this is what I was trying to tell the op.


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah Hun your all right lol no more thermometer 
Suddenly though she's gone back to having a really ravenous appetite , is this normal?


----------



## chichi

I would seriously leave the temp taking alone. She needs time to herself with you on hand for support. She needs to be as natural as possible to allow her body to react in a natural way to labour. Shoving a thermometer up her rear will not have her feeling relaxed and chilled.

When my girls go into labour...I get a book...have the lights down low and lie down next to the whelping box. I then leave it to the mum to be to either cuddle up to me or get in the box. They lead the way...you follow what their body is telling them.

Good luck


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

^^^^^ 

TAKE NOTE!! 

Play some soothing music or something, dim those lights and settle in for the night.


----------



## Amy-manycats

Good luck OP. Hope all goes well, but you are making me nervous reading the thread, you don't want that same feeling passing on to your girl!


----------



## Mummy24

Haha thanks everyone, you can tell I'm a first timer aye? Just had the vet on the phone who said it sounds like things are progressing well and she's advised us no more feeding encase she needs a c section. She just ate a huge meal lol oops. She started panting again for about 20 seconds and puppies are nice an active


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I'll be online for a while, I'm not sure who else will be, but hopefully there will be a few of us.


----------



## kate_7590

Getting exciting now!!!


----------



## Firedog

Don't forget copious amounts of coffee......that's the most important bit.


----------



## miti999

Good luck! 

And let her eat the placentas, so nutritious!


----------



## Mummy24

i will  oh i hope you guys are online tonight lol 
im getting to bed at 10pm and then mums waking me up at 2am for my nightshift with her. I really hope its tonight now lol


----------



## AmberNero

*puppy puppy puppy puppyyyyyyy dance*


----------



## chichi

I wouldnt let her eat more than one placenta personally....can give them the trots and thats all a new Mum needs. They hate leaving their bubbas for a minute to toilet so if they are in and out for poos it could cause a bit of stress. Jmho though


----------



## Mummy24

She's gone back under the table to sleep however her breathing a quite rapid


----------



## miti999

chichi said:


> I wouldnt let her eat more than one placenta personally....can give them the trots and thats all a new Mum needs. They hate leaving their bubbas for a minute to toilet so if they are in and out for poos it could cause a bit of stress. Jmho though


Well not in my experience, a different poop yes but not trots


----------



## chichi

miti999 said:


> Well not in my experience, a different poop yes but not trots


Was def the trots and other breeders I have discussed this point with have said the same. Suppose it depends on the dog in question.

Up to OP what she does but wanted to give her the benefit of my experience. Up to her what she does with that knowledge.


----------



## AmberNero




----------



## Sleeping_Lion

AmberNero said:


>


Thank goodness, there's not a thermometer in sight in that pic!!!


----------



## Mummy24

Just been up to check on her as she's settled herself on my bed. More noticeable clear discharge x


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

You really need to start getting her to stay in the vicinity of the whelping box, unless that's in your bedroom?


----------



## Mummy24

No Hun it's downstairs. Mum said I need to let we stay where she's comfy although I've tried to tell her she needs to be in her box. She doesn't believe she'll start to Iggy as her temp was high earlier, she's been ravenous etc. she has no idea lol


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Where's your boy while all this is going on? They're not allowed free rein of the house together are they, because if she gets a maternal mood on, she could well have a right pop at him. 

Even though Tau had a c-section, she became incredibly maternal, and didn't even want her half sister anywhere near the litter. None of the other girls were allowed near until they were about 7 weeks of age.


----------



## MaisyMoomin

I think a lot depends on how you whelp your litter if the mum eats the placentas or not, if your leaving it up to mum to do cords etc you haven't got much chance of grabbing them all before getting cleaned up & eaten. We gave our girl 3/4 of them to help contractions etc, we dealt with each pups cord / placenta then passed to mum.
I wouldn't be leaving her where she's comfy, unless you want a lot of mess


----------



## Mummy24

The males being kept seperate from her once she's had the puppies. We have an extension so that's her whelping room where was can keep him out at all times  
I'm off to bed as I've got to be up at 2am for my night watch shift lol


----------



## MerlinsMum

If there is even the slightest risk she will whelp on your bed, cover it with waterproof sheeting. Some breeders use cheap shower curtains.

If she hasn't whelped by tomorrow see if you can buy some human incontinence pads. They are exteremely absorbent and ideal for use under mum during delivery.


----------



## Malmum

Kali's whelping box was in our front room with easy access to the garden once the pups were born, laminate flooring and minimal furniture. I kept all other dogs out of her sight because it would have stressed her and if your boy is still in the vicinity that could be why she's chosen the bedroom. Labour can be stressful especially in first time mums and Kali would have murdered any dog that came near her pups, so I'm glad she didn't have any near as she was preparing for labour too. Also its a very mucky business. 
I think moving her once the pups are born is unfair on her, shed be better off in the conservatory right from the off and if she needs to toilet between/after pups she can do so without wandering too far way from them. Kali ate all the placentas, just gulped them and made her way down the cord but had dreadful diarrhoea for two days after. The vet said it would pass once the placentas were out of her system and it did, so prepare yourself. 

Good luck, will be watching this thread closely.


----------



## Mummy24

Well its 4am and nothing to report


----------



## chichi

Pups are happy where they are lol. I know its very frustrating but make the most of the relaxation. You will soon be a slave to the new Mum and her puppies


----------



## Mummy24

I know lol I'm just so impatient 
I'm at college all day today Untill 4pm so they better now decide to come then haha. She's put of the whelping room now and sleeping with mum as she's been in there all night with me and I've gotta get ready lol


----------



## Bijou

Good morning ! ...... I know it will be hard but I really think you need to relax a little and allow things to happen in their own time, without a definite date of ovulation you have no real idea of when the pups should be due, remember that dog sperm can live for over a week in the bitch and fertilisation takes place three days after the eggs are released so this could throw your due date out by another week.

You will be an exhausted heap if you have to keep this level of anxiety up for another week ! ....my advice to you is to just let her potter about doing her own thing, stop taking her temperature but check her vulva occasionally and read the book of the bitch whelping section till you know it off by heart . 

She is full of pups so she will pant, be restless, be unable to eat large meals and be extra clingy that's all natural for a bitch in late pregnancy. Be patient be observant and try and catch up on your sleep ....you will need it when the pups do arrive 

By the way a bitch's vulva will become softer and pulsate slightly towards the end of her pregnancy again this is normal , as long as you can see no bulge or membranes then please don't worry.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks guys yeah i think your right 
ill just late nature take its course, im to exhausted haha


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Definitely agree with all the advice about letting it just happen, and I personally would have her getting used to her whelping box and sleeping down with her, where ever it is, keeping your boy away from her. She needs to feel like she's got her own safe and secure area for the pups. 

I think I made my other two girls stay separated from about four or five days before, and that was it, they couldn't mix with Tau or the pups until she decided it was ok. I did switch where the pups were once they were more mobile as it was better to have them in another room where I could section off half of it for them to roam around. The kitchen was better for whelping as it is a more secure spot, easier to keep warm and draught free. 

My bitch was extremely protective when it came to the other dogs, and very firmly told them to keep away, more so the younger of the other two bitches. I'm sure she'll return the favour if I ever breed from her! 

Have you got an area where the pups could safely wander in an out? Like a fenced patio or similar? That is ideal to let them explore outside and sun (if we ever get any) is good for developing pups, well it's good for all of us, shame we live in England really!!


----------



## Mummy24

we have patio doors in our extension which lead out to the garden so we were going to see if we could get a cheap room separator so they could wander out in a safe spot

I told mum about keeping them separate but she says it would drive the male mad lol as they do everything together


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Whether it drives the boy mad is irrelevant, it's what's best for your girl, not him. All species are capable of holding on to their unborn young if they don't feel it's *right* for them to give birth, and that can be dangerous for the unborn offspring and for the mother. I'll drive over and confiscate the dog and the thermometer if I have to, but what's important is to do what's right for your bitch and her unborn pups


----------



## Mummy24

Haha; no you are right. I keep trying to tell my mum they need to be seperated but she keeps saying that she's showing no signs so won't do it and upset them all. If only she'd realise its because he's still there that there's probably no signs lol


----------



## chaka

I think you need to show your mum this thread. It seems you are asking for and getting loads of advice on here and your mum is then ignoring it. You really need to keep the male away from her now, he obviously survived when they were separated when she was in season, even if he did make up for it when they were back together. Not only can bitches hold on to their pups if they feel the time is not right, but I have also known of bitches killing their new born pups if they are stressed when giving birth.
For what its worth I have very rarely checked temperature of a bitch pre whelping, just kept an eye on them, all bitches can be different. My most recent litter the bitch played happily in the field in the afternoon, ate a large tea and shortly after started with contractions, whelping the first pup within an hour. 
You need to just leave your bitch in peace, on her own, but keep a discreet eye on her. I found a baby listener great for keeping an ear out for signs of panting and digging, but also allowing me to leave a bitch to rest when they were just sleeping.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks guys im gonna tell her when we get home that she has to do it lol i think we can put some sheets up to cover the glass doors cause thats what winds him up, he can see her but cant get to her lol


----------



## Mummy24

well ill just put update post to sumerise it all lol 

yesterday blue appeared to lose the last bit of her plug aswell as starting to lose discharge. Her temp shot up to 102 and then there was a big drop according to my chart which ive attatched  no more temp taking though, just going on signs. She's turned ravenously hungry all of a sudden from yesterday and eating for 10 haha. Lets see what today brings! I wont get home till 4pm so hopefully nothing happens untill im home


----------



## we love bsh's

*sigh* You took the temp again! :nonod: Plz you need to listen to the advise your been given its been given for a reason,thats 3 times now you said you would stop temp taking.

This isn't meant in a mean way,just for your bitches sake and puppies.


----------



## Mummy24

i know i know i couldnt help it 
ive thrown the thermometer away now anyway to stop myself lol chucked it straight out into the bin.


----------



## MaisyMoomin

Jings! If you want to take her temp take it!! We used it successfully for our first litter, our girl couldn't of cared less, you do what makes you and your girl happy.


----------



## Mummy24

MaisyMoomin said:


> Jings! If you want to take her temp take it!! We used it successfully for our first litter, our girl couldn't of cared less, you do what makes you and your girl happy.


to be fair she didnt mind in the slightest lol, slept through one reading and wags her tail with the others lol


----------



## MaisyMoomin

Mummy24 said:


> to be fair she didnt mind in the slightest lol, slept through one reading and wags her tail with the others lol


Yeah, our girl never bothered either  our vet gave us a leaflet & showed us how to take a rectal temp and advised to chart it! You do what you feel happy with. Hope you don't miss anything exciting


----------



## we love bsh's

MaisyMoomin said:


> Jings! If you want to take her temp take it!! We used it successfully for our first litter, our girl couldn't of cared less, you do what makes you and your girl happy.


Im sure sticking a rod up her as* multiple time a day is going to make her girl happy.

Well do what you like op,just re read what everyone else has said I wish your girl al the best.


----------



## MaisyMoomin

we love bsh's said:


> Im sure sticking a rod up her as* multiple time a day is going to make her girl happy.
> 
> Well do what you like op,just re read what everyone else has said I wish your girl al the best.


I doubt anyone would do it if their dog was that distressed/ unhappy about it, the op knows her dog and if taking her temp gives her a little reassurance, I don't think it's a big deal on the scale of things in fact I think it's probably a good thing if the ops dog is happy for her to be about her bits as she will probably need to be during labour/ after/ cleaning etc & will help both feel a little more confident.


----------



## cats galore

i'd be very concerned about taking temperatures in case i caused an injury. i never did it with tabitha and just let nature take it's course. she'll have the puppies when she's relaxed enough to have them. good luck i hope all goes well


----------



## Mummy24

i have chucked it out now on the advice here lol 

the main reason ive been so consistent with the temp taking is because we are very concerned about her going to far overdue and not knowing which can cause alot of problems. As we can only go by the time she finished bleeding we're very worried. 

If we go by say the 3rd of march as we remember she finished sometime at the begining of march she would be 8 days overdue


----------



## Malmum

Since you don't actually know the date of her mating you can't be sure if she's over due or not really can you, a few days either side is normal for any of us. Don't worry if she's contented and eating, then she's alright. She's probably having the odd contraction - in humans it's called Braxton Hicks - and it's just a run up to the big day. I never took temps and don't really see the need, mum will let you know when she's imminent by making her bed and panting. 

Let her carry on with life as normal and don't fuss around her, you could make her nervous with all the anticipation.


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> If we go by say the 3rd of march as we remember she finished sometime at the begining of march she would be 8 days overdue


When you say "finished" do you mean the bleeding stopped? They can be fertile for as long as two weeks after this, so I would go with a much later date of mating.


----------



## Mummy24

yeah the bleeding stopped as far as we can remember end of feb/begining of march


----------



## rocco33

Mummy24 said:


> yeah the bleeding stopped as far as we can remember end of feb/begining of march


When did it start? This is really important


----------



## Mummy24

rougly speaking around the 20th of Feb i think


----------



## rocco33

So how long was your boy away?

Sounds like he was only away for two weeks 

There's your answer! I find it hard to believe that as she is now four years old you, or more importantly your mum, hasn't actually worked out how long to keep them apart.

Without knowing when they mated (assuming he is the sire) you won't know how far gone she is and when her due date is (even knowing the due date there is some leeway). She could have ovulated and mated any time over the next couple of weeks after he came home!


----------



## Mummy24

he was away from when she started so 20th of Feb and he came back the day after she finished which was the first week of march


----------



## rocco33

Mummy24 said:


> he was away from when she started so 20th of Feb and he came back the day after she finished which was the first week of march


She wouldn't have finished her season, whether bleeding was apparent or not, in two weeks. He should have been kept away for at least three, preferably four weeks regardless of whether the bleeding was apparent or not. Ovulation (when the are receptive to mating) typically occurs around day 14, although there is a great deal of variation in this. The blood loss thins, lessens during ovulation, although some bitches are so clean they appear to have stopped. Regardless of how much bleeding they should have been kept apart for (IMO) four weeks.


----------



## Mummy24

yes we were completely unaware of this (although we are now) lol


----------



## rocco33

Mummy24 said:


> yes we were completely unaware of this (although we are now) lol


I'm not sure I'd see it as funny, you should have been aware. Regardless, it means that your bitch could have the litter at any time over a two week period (or even more given the leeway). Yes, there are more risks (and you have put her more at risk) because you don't know when she should be due, but you need to chill out for your poor bitch's sake.


----------



## chichi

Sounds like the male came back when she was at her most fertile.....ooooops!!!!

Anyway...if that is the case...she gasnt gone over...

If you have any fears of her having gone over a safe time then you really need her checked by a Vet. 

With regards whelping boxes...I think many bitches ...certainly mine...are not interested in the whelping box pre whelp. Once those babies are born though...they are stuck to it like glue.

In the last week of pregnancy I sleep in the whelping room...my bitch has the choice to cuddle up to me or go to the whelping box...in true Chi style...they nearly always choose me 

As for interacting with my other dogs...my pregnant bitches have constant access to be alone in a room where they will eventually whelp. It has a gate across so I can keep the other dogs away. One or two of my girls like to be away from the other dogs quite quickly others prefer to keep as normal as possible up to the last hours. They get to choose.

As for MMs comments about temp taking...I dont agree. Temp taking is for the human...does nothing for the bitch and can be totally unreliable at times as to whether a bitch will whelp or not. You cannot time manage nature or predict it...so not worth trying. There are other ways to indicate imminent whelp...like digging..panting..restlessness..sometimes the first sign being a sac protruding from the vulva..yes..have had not a sign..heard a yelp..look across the room and a pup was hanging!!! 

Never try to predict nature...its a waste of time and energy. Just observe and chill

And THANK GOODNESS you have given up the temp taking


----------



## MaisyMoomin

Our girl had minimal digging, no panting and was a tad restless, had we not of got the drop 24hrs prior we could of been in a lot of trouble, no visible contractions, no pushing etc, leaving her for nature to take its course would of ended in a dead litter & possibly bitch, it helped us a great deal as first timers, it gave us proof that she was in labour otherwise we could of missed (maybe we were just lucky, but taking temp with a digital temp was very simple) Had she been left she would of been in great danger due to needing oxytocin as she wasn't contracting. We went with our vets advice regards temp taking, mentors said dont bother but we were very glad we did


----------



## Mummy24

i am aware that as we didnt know this information we put her at risk, and we dont need it shoved down our throats and making us feel even worst than we already do now! and in regards to chilling out, its very hard to when im constantly worrying about her. 

thankyou chichi  we are taking her to the vets if labour hasnt started by Wednesday, hopefully it wont come to that haha.


----------



## Malmum

chichi said:


> As for MMs comments about temp taking...I dont agree.


Just to add - I said I *wouldn't* bother with temp taking.


----------



## MaisyMoomin

Malmum said:


> Just to add - I said I *wouldn't* bother with temp taking.


Think I'm MM


----------



## chichi

Malmum said:


> Just to add - I said I *wouldn't* bother with temp taking.


Sorry Malmum...meant Maisy Moomin...ooooops


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> Our girl had minimal digging, no panting and was a tad restless, had we not of got the drop 24hrs prior we could of been in a lot of trouble, no visible contractions, no pushing etc, leaving her for nature to take its course would of ended in a dead litter & possibly bitch, it helped us a great deal as first timers, it gave us proof that she was in labour otherwise we could of missed (maybe we were just lucky, but taking temp with a digital temp was very simple) Had she been left she would of been in great danger due to needing oxytocin as she wasn't contracting. We went with our vets advice regards temp taking, mentors said dont bother but we were very glad we did


Dont know if I have read your post wrong but it sounds like your bitch needed oxytocin to start contractions off...that she hadnt already had a pup before giving oxytocin. If that is what you meant then I think that is majorly risky and would opt for c section in that situation.....

Also..you can have a temp drop and then have temp rise again.


----------



## rocco33

Mummy24 said:


> i am aware that as we didnt know this information we put her at risk, and we dont need it shoved down our throats and making us feel even worst than we already do now! and in regards to chilling out, its very hard to when im constantly worrying about her.


I'm not shoving it down your throat - but you don't seem to be listening. I have never taken temperatures - they are can give wrong readings if you're not doing it correctly, but anyway, if you do it, you need only take it twice a day, not every couple of hours. You need to do it for a week before anyway to establish her normal temperature and any small fluctuations.

In spite of being told this you still insist. Having a litter is a worrying time, even for an experienced breeder, and it doesn't stop after they are born 9 just to warn you). Things can and do go wrong. It may sound harsh, but you need to get a grip of your emotions and chill out as your worry and constant pestering will not be helping your bitch.


----------



## Mummy24

We know her normal body temperature is 102.3 F from when she has been treated at the vets and we have been told to keep an eye on it. I guess everyone has varying opinions when it comes to using the temp method as a way of checking for impending labour, no one is right or wrong


----------



## we love bsh's

MaisyMoomin said:


> Our girl had minimal digging, no panting and was a tad restless, had we not of got the drop 24hrs prior we could of been in a lot of trouble, no visible contractions, no pushing etc, leaving her for nature to take its course would of ended in a dead litter & possibly bitch, it helped us a great deal as first timers, it gave us proof that she was in labour otherwise we could of missed (maybe we were just lucky, but taking temp with a digital temp was very simple) Had she been left she would of been in great danger due to needing oxytocin as she wasn't contracting. We went with our vets advice regards temp taking, mentors said dont bother but we were very glad we did


I don't know how any breeder 'term used loosely' can say labour isn't obvious.

Iv seen many litters born now and seriously you cant miss it when it starts.

I too had a girl who had to have oxytocin as things wernt moving along after first kit was born dead,the oxytocin didn't work she ruptured and had emergency section,all events were monitored by me and I got her help when it was clear she wasn't progressing by *observing* her.

Op people arnt meaning to come across mean by telling you to chill out they mean it in the nicest possibly way,people can sense you stressing by what you write in your posts so are advising you to keep calm as your bitch will pick up on your stress and be stressed herself,all said and done we all just want whats best for your girl and will help you in any way we can.


----------



## rocco33

chichi said:


> Dont know if I have read your post wrong but it sounds like your bitch needed oxytocin to start contractions off...that she hadnt already had a pup before giving oxytocin. If that is what you meant then I think that is majorly risky and would opt for c section in that situation.....
> 
> Also..you can have a temp drop and then have temp rise again.


I agree, if it was primary inertia, then unless examined as fully dilated, oxytocin should not be given because of the risk of rupture.

It's only usually given with secondary inertia.


----------



## MaisyMoomin

chichi said:


> Dont know if I have read your post wrong but it sounds like your bitch needed oxytocin to start contractions off...that she hadnt already had a pup before giving oxytocin. If that is what you meant then I think that is majorly risky and would opt for c section in that situation.....
> 
> Also..you can have a temp drop and then have temp rise again.


She had her 1st pup in the car on the way home 

Mummy24 do what you & your girl are happy to do, you will know what's best for her, it's not rocket science


----------



## Mummy24

thanks hun yeah we will do  
im just a complete worrier lol


----------



## we love bsh's

chichi said:


> Dont know if I have read your post wrong but it sounds like your bitch needed oxytocin to start contractions off...that she hadnt already had a pup before giving oxytocin. If that is what you meant then I think that is majorly risky and would opt for c section in that situation.....
> 
> Also..you can have a temp drop and then have temp rise again.


So agree with your post in-experienced springs to mind!


----------



## we love bsh's

And that's why people are saying keep calm sweet.


----------



## MerlinsMum

we love bsh's said:


> Op people arnt meaning to come across mean by telling you to chill out they mean it in the nicest possibly way,people can sense you stressing by what you write in your posts so are advising you to keep calm as your bitch will pick up on your stress and be stressed herself,all said and done we all just want whats best for your girl and will help you in any way we can.


I wasn't going to mention this as I thought the OP would heed the advice given and allow her bitch some peace and quiet, with no other dogs around and no more thermometers!

I have experienced Birth Hysteria is one of my cats, in the past, and sincerely hope never to again. I understand this can occur in dogs too. This cat was given plenty of stress-free time and kept as calm as possible, but having seen it I would never unduly stress any pregnant cat or dog for fear of triggering it. This girl wasn't bred from again as she clearly had an unstable temperament, but stress in an otherwise calm animal can also build up drop by drop like a glass of water and you certainly don't want it to overflow.

When a birthing mother starts running around terrified, dragging a newly born kitten by its cord with the placenta still inside, and completely freaking out, hiding under furniture and attacking you when you try to take control, even plenty of previous experience with kittening or whelping will be of no help.

So even though this was probably a one-off, you can see how important it is to give the pregnant mother as much peace and stress-free time as possible.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> We know her normal body temperature is 102.3 F from when she has been treated at the vets and we have been told to keep an eye on it. I guess everyone has varying opinions when it comes to using the temp method as a way of checking for impending labour, no one is right or wrong


I dont think anyone is saying temp taking is wrong as such.

Its just clear that you were taking temp every couple of hours or so yesterday and that is pointless.

Just cuddle and spoil your bitch and ooooze that you are chilled and relaxed (even if youre not) and she may well chill and relax with you. She sure wont give into labour easily if she doesnt feel safe..secure and chilled.

Of course you are nervous..you wouldnt be human if you werent but you have a whole forum backing you and a vet at the end of the phone..so just try to have a little more faith in yourself. You are doing a great job but you NEED to stop overly worrying. I cannot stress enough that your bitch knows her body. You just need to support and assist her and know the signs that may require professional medical intervention.

Keep reading Book of the Bitch. Its my ritual...I read it every time a bitch goes into labour. I know the book and info inside out but for some reason reading that book just gives me something to focus on...its strange I know...but just find something to help you relax in these stressful waiting hours


----------



## Mummy24

Thankyou for all your advice everyone I really do appreciate it and I'm going to try and calm down lol. You must all be sick of me by now lol. I'm gonna just chill out and wait for it to happen. I've just called mum to check on her and she said she's right as rain, ate 2 lots of breakfast lol and agreed we'll go to the vets on Wednesday if nothing has happened by then


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> She had her 1st pup in the car on the way home
> 
> Mummy24 do what you & your girl are happy to do, you will know what's best for her, it's not rocket science


Can I ask you how much breeding experience you have


----------



## we love bsh's

MerlinsMum said:


> I wasn't going to mention this as I thought the OP would heed the advice given and allow her bitch some peace and quiet, with no other dogs around and no more thermometers!
> 
> I have experienced Birth Hysteria is one of my cats, in the past, and sincerely hope never to again. I understand this can occur in dogs too. This cat was given plenty of stress-free time and kept as calm as possible, but having seen it I would never unduly stress any pregnant cat or dog for fear of triggering it. This girl wasn't bred from again as she clearly had an unstable temperament, but stress in an otherwise calm animal can also build up drop by drop like a glass of water and you certainly don't want it to overflow.
> 
> When a birthing mother starts running around terrified, dragging a newly born kitten by its cord with the placenta still inside, and completely freaking out, hiding under furniture and attacking you when you try to take control, even plenty of previous experience with kittening or whelping will be of no help.
> 
> So even though this was probably a one-off, you can see how important it is to give the pregnant mother as much peace and stress-free time as possible.


Totally agree,i was even scared to take my girl to vet for oxytocin as I was worried if would freak her out and the stress of the visit would slow thing even further.

Ill admit my first pregnant girl I took the temp,i now know better and I just simply see it as completely pointless and a waste of time..kittens,puppies whatever will come when they come its pretty simple.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> Thankyou for all your advice everyone I really do appreciate it and I'm going to try and calm down lol. You must all be sick of me by now lol. I'm gonna just chill out and wait for it to happen. I've just called mum to check on her and she said she's right as rain, ate 2 lots of breakfast lol and agreed we'll go to the vets on Wednesday if nothing has happened by then


Thats the way to go...they can eat for England when pregnant cant they. I often wonder where Chis put all the food. Just wait til shes lactating...my girls are a constant eating machine lol


----------



## kodakkuki

MaisyMoomin said:


> Our girl had minimal digging, no panting and was a tad restless, had we not of got the drop 24hrs prior we could of been in a lot of trouble, no visible contractions, no pushing etc,* leaving her for nature to take its course would of ended in a dead litter & possibly bitch, it helped us a great deal as first timers,* it gave us proof that she was in labour otherwise we could of missed (maybe we were just lucky, but taking temp with a digital temp was very simple) Had she been left she would of been in great danger due to needing oxytocin as she wasn't contracting. We went with our vets advice regards temp taking, mentors said dont bother but we were very glad we did


OP, if you continue observing your girl then this bit in bold won't be an issue at all... now if you weere locking your bitch in a spare room only checking her every few hours it would be an issue (and i know of a 'breeder' of toy breeds with an Extremely high mortality rate because of this neglegence). mosyt of the time her 1st in each litter is stillborn or damaged by a frantic mommadog.
if you're with her though you Won't miss it!



chichi said:


> I dont think anyone is saying temp taking is wrong as such.
> 
> Its just clear that you were taking temp every couple of hours or so yesterday and that is pointless.
> 
> Just cuddle and spoil your bitch and ooooze that you are chilled and relaxed (even if youre not) and she may well chill and relax with you. She sure wont give into labour easily if she doesnt feel safe..secure and chilled.
> 
> _Of course you are nervous..you wouldnt be human if you werent but you have a whole forum backing you and a vet at the end of the phone..so just try to have a little more faith in yourself. You are doing a great job but you NEED to stop overly worrying. I cannot stress enough that your bitch knows her body. You just need to support and assist her and know the signs that may require professional medical intervention._
> 
> Keep reading Book of the Bitch. Its my ritual...I read it every time a bitch goes into labour. I know the book and info inside out but for some reason reading that book just gives me something to focus on...its strange I know...but just find something to help you relax in these stressful waiting hours


when i was playing midwoof to my friends pregnant pound rottie (adopted out pregnant  ) she was showing signs of being very imminent for a good 12 hours, but just not contracting. she ended up having her first pup completely out of the blue in the afternoon on the sofa beside her owners. he called me nearly in tears about how she didn't seem happy about her puppy (who he had to clean up to give to her) and i was there within minutes to find her on her bed in the kitchen with her 1st pup dried off and sleeping (he did a good job playing it cool with the pup untill i got there!) but as soon as i arrived he lost it again and was shaking with nerves. the bitch had met me twice before labour, but because i was calm as i sat down beside her she sighed, put her head on my lap, and 5 mins later out popped puppy 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... followed by a break and some glucosey goats milk, then pup 7, 8 and eventually 9. 
i'm almost certain she'd been holong on to them because she could tell daddy was upset about something and she didnt want to have her babies if there was something that bad happening.

long winded post i know, but do you get what i'm saying? you're her family. if you are stressing out, she will assume there is something bad happening and will try to hold off on bringing her puppies into a dangerous place for as long as possible...

keep calm and cuddle bitches!


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Hi everyone, have been reading a number of threads on here past two days as my bitch is on day 55 from 1st mating, her first litter, and just wanted to say firstly good luck to Mummy24 and Blue, secondly although I have read book of the Bitch from cover to cover, consulted with vets and mentor, the information on here is invaluable. Thank you to everyone


----------



## Mummy24

Right guys well after spending all day worrying at ollege and not being able to conentrate I've booked a visit to the vets for tonight. Once she's had the all clear by them ill be able to relax a lot more and knowing everythings alright will make me feel loads better


----------



## Malmum

MaisyMoomin said:


> Think I'm MM


Ha ha, just me prioritising myself again!


----------



## Malmum

Have to say OP I know how hard it is to keep your head when you're so worried. I'm ashamed to say that I spent most of Kali's labour in tears  - I was scared stiff something may go wrong. Luckily I had a birthing partner with me, my 25 year old daughter who MADE me leave the room a few times and I got sternly told off too, lol. 

My kids joke about it now saying "It was one of the best days ever, unfortunately mum ruined it by being a complete a**e!" Ha ha! :blushing:

It's hard but try to stay calm, remember it's a natural event, mind you I was better with my kids births than with my dog!


----------



## we love bsh's

Op hope everything goes well at the vets tonight.


----------



## rona

Mummy24 said:


> Right guys well after spending all day worrying at ollege and not being able to conentrate I've booked a visit to the vets for tonight. Once she's had the all clear by them ill be able to relax a lot more and knowing everythings alright will make me feel loads better


I think that is very sensible 

What time is your appointment?


----------



## Mummy24

thanks hun 
just got home and shes got even bigger since i left this morning! :O Her teats have doubled in size aswell lol i had a feel and the pups felt like they were having a boxing match in there haha
i cant wait to get to the vets and know everythings okay and get all the answers i need and then i can relax 

her appoinment is at 6pm so ill update then


----------



## rona

Mummy24 said:


> thanks hun
> just got home and shes got even bigger since i left this morning! :O Her teats have doubled in size aswell lol i had a feel and the pups felt like they were having a boxing match in there haha
> i cant wait to get to the vets and know everythings okay and get all the answers i need and then i can relax


You won't relax but you'll have more of a clue as to where she's at


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

If the pups are busy that would indicate she's not ready to drop quite yet, they *usually* go quiet for a while before they pop out.


----------



## Mummy24

lool okay so i wont relax altogether but knowing where shes at and that all the puppies are okay will let me relax alot more than i am now haha ive had about 10hrs sleep since thursday :O


----------



## lymorelynn

nice to see this thread back on topic - can we keep it that way please without any of the unhelpful and unnecessary comments and snide remarks left on Visitor pages.


----------



## *Camelia*

How exciting, puppies :crazy: will you be keeping any?


----------



## Mummy24

*Camelia* said:


> How exciting, puppies :crazy: will you be keeping any?


we're not sure yet lol mums working out if we can afford to


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Whilst the thread has gone slightly into the future, you may struggle to find homes for pups, it depends on how many she has but even very good breeders with excellent examples that are health tested, are not finding it easy to sell pups to the right homes at the moment, they are scarce. 

Make sure you vet any potential puppy owners/buyers very, very carefully and make it clear that the pups are from parents with no health tests, and should not be bred on from. As for keeping one, I'd suggest first and foremost you need to have your girl spayed, and ensure the same mistake never happens again.


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah Hun we've already spoke to the vets in regards to getting her spayed after whelping. We're in the process now of finding good homes for the pups once they are easy to leave


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

If you have a look at the recommended health tests for Labradors and GR's you'll see there are a few the same/similar, have a read up about them so that you can pass all the information on to new owners. It's vital that you make sure they understand that just because they are a cross breed, it doesn't mean they can't inherit/develop these conditions. There's information on the KC website, and if you google the British Veterinary Association, then look at the canine health testing schemes, that will explain it all.


----------



## Tollisty

If you have trouble finding homes you could donate them to an assistance dog charity, hearing dogs, dogs for the disabled, hounds for heroes, etc. Golden/lab crosses are used as guide dogs alot so the charities should be interested. But you do need to be prepared to take back a puppy/adult if it fails the training at any point.


----------



## Malmum

Tollisty said:


> If you have trouble finding homes you could donate them to an assistance dog charity, hearing dogs, dogs for the disabled, hounds for heroes, etc. Golden/lab crosses are used as guide dogs alot so the charities should be interested. But you do need to be prepared to take back a puppy/adult if it fails the training at any point.


Oh that's a fab idea, you'll also need to be prepared to take a pup/dog back anyway regardless of where it goes, as I'm sure you'd want to know they are all okay in the future eh?

I bet the OP is at the vets right now thinking 'Please, please don't have a pup here - hurry up vet!' lol - as you know how you never get in straight away!


----------



## *Camelia*

Mummy24 said:


> we're not sure yet lol mums working out if we can afford to


Ahh you will fall in love with them all I'm sure.


----------



## kodakkuki

*Camelia* said:


> Ahh you will fall in love with them all I'm sure.


thats not the point though is it? they are being very sensible making sure they can afford another dog before deciding... dogs can't live on cuddles and air alone you know!


----------



## blossom21

Oh dear just blogged on and was hoping for some news.Im glad I never bred any dogs I would of been a jibbering wreck.


----------



## *Camelia*

kodakkuki said:


> thats not the point though is it? they are being very sensible making sure they can afford another dog before deciding... dogs can't live on cuddles and air alone you know!


 what's your problem! Any sensible adult knows that ut:


----------



## 1290423

MaisyMoomin said:


> Jings! If you want to take her temp take it!!


I don't think you should advise that!


----------



## 1290423

we love bsh's said:


> Im sure sticking a rod up her as* multiple time a day is going to make her girl happy.
> 
> Well do what you like op,just re read what everyone else has said I wish your girl al the best.


Unbelievable what some will advise!
ALSo is done wrong damage can be caused to the bowel wall as well as the pups!
What a muppet!


----------



## kodakkuki

*Camelia* said:


> what's your problem! Any sensible adult knows that ut:


 what's my problem?



*Camelia* said:


> How exciting, puppies :crazy: will you be keeping any?





Mummy24 said:


> we're not sure yet lol mums working out if we can afford to





*Camelia* said:


> Ahh you will fall in love with them all I'm sure.


re-read your post... it doesn't come across as entirely sensible does it. it comes across as saying ''ah well, you'll love 'em n keep 'em anyway''


----------



## Mummy24

well im back from the vets  
he said she will definitely have them by Sunday! Her vulva is very swollen and milk is flowing from the left side but not as much on the right, should i be concerned about this? He also said it would be perfectly fine to take temp once in the morning and once in the night (12 hours apart) to get a rough idea of any spikes or drops. 
He said the dogs were fine to stay together as long as she is moved into her whelping area when she begins labour


----------



## kodakkuki

Mummy24 said:


> well im back from the vets
> he said she will definitely have them by Sunday! Her vulva is very swollen and milk is flowing from the left side but not as much on the right, should i be concerned about this? He also said it would be perfectly fine to take temp once in the morning and once in the night (12 hours apart) to get a rough idea of any spikes or drops.
> He said the dogs were fine to stay together as long as she is moved into her whelping area when she begins labour


glad to hear there's nothing to worry about! just please keep in mind that this is all very general guidelines and vets don't really have first hand breeding experience... and can't possibly know how each bitch will react.
so temp taking TWICE a day? not 15?! he showed you how to do it correctly? i only ask as i am working in a vets atm, and not too long ago we had a bitch in (not pregnant thankfully) who the owner had tried taking a rectal temp and perferated the bowel wall.

and remember that 'by subday' could still mean they could come tomorrow- so still follow her when outside etc Just incase!


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah he showed me exactly how to do it so feeling so much more relaxed 
Oh yeah definitely the sooner the better in my eyes haha


----------



## *Camelia*

Where did I say that?? Your just makin stuff up! She will love them all!!! And her parents will decide if it is feasible & sensible ut:
Why are you jumping on a one liner?



kodakkuki said:


> what's my problem?
> 
> re-read your post... it doesn't come across as entirely sensible does it. it comes across as saying ''ah well, you'll love 'em n keep 'em anyway''


----------



## kodakkuki

*Camelia* said:


> Where did I say that?? Your just makin stuff up! She will love them all!!! And her parents will decide if it is feasible & sensible ut:
> Why are you jumping on a one liner?


wtf?  they're Your quotes. you said them on this thread?

yes, she will/should love them all. it was the tone of your post i was pointing out- hardly Jumping on anything. but i hadn't planned on aregueing over it; not exactly the place is it?

also, would've replied to your 'message' on your visitor page... but for some reason you don't allow it.


----------



## Mummy24

Okay we might have lift off

Blue started shivering about 10 mins ago. It wasn't consistent more like 4 seconds shivering then a 20 second break and again. She then went upto mums bed and started to 'nest'

She's been moved into the whelping room with mum so let's just wait and see aye?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Yes the shaking is a clear sign of first stage labour. It can go on (and off) for some time, though!


----------



## paddyjulie

Oh bless...fingers crossed..hopefully in the morning we have some lovely puppies to drool over ..


----------



## kodakkuki

yip, could well be the first twinges of labour! you realise we're gonna be pestering you for updates all night don't you?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Remember about the going out for toilet thing.... they sometimes ask to go out at this stage, so take a torch and a towel every time and don't let her out of your sight, it's not unheard of for them to deliver the first puppy in the garden!


----------



## AmberNero

*


MerlinsMum said:



Remember about the going out for toilet thing.... they sometimes ask to go out at this stage, so take a torch and a towel every time and don't let her out of your sight, it's not unheard of for them to deliver the first puppy in the garden!

Click to expand...

*Just highlighting this grand advice in case it gets lost in the threads hungry maw.

also PUPPIES!!!!!      

Come on Blue, you can do it :thumbup:


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks guys! 
She's started licking her back leg when she sits down and keeps sighing heavily lol her breathing is quite rapid and deep and she keeps fidgeting although the shivering has stopped


----------



## Mummy24

Mummy24 said:


> Thanks guys!
> She's started licking her back leg when she sits down and keeps sighing heavily lol her breathing is quite rapid and deep and she keeps fidgeting although the shivering has stopped


Also puppies are still quite active


----------



## Mummy24

She's now lay down and gone to sleep haha


----------



## AmberNero

And so... we waited...


----------



## kodakkuki

(i can't remember if you said...) how is her bump looking? is she still all sides or has her belly dropped? they could well be lining up causing her discomfort...

the whole process before the full contractions would feel like really bad cramps, i know a freind who acts like blue is doing every single month bless her!


----------



## we love bsh's

kodakkuki said:


> (i can't remember if you said...) how is her bump looking? is she still all sides or has her belly dropped? they could well be lining up causing her discomfort...
> 
> the whole process before the full contractions would feel like really bad cramps, i know a freind who acts like blue is doing every single month bless her!


You should look for the heavy panting/rapid breathing I find they get a glazed look in their eye which is them coping through the pain/contraction.

Good look op really you cant miss it once its started.


----------



## kodakkuki

we love bsh's said:


> You should look for the heavy panting/rapid breathing I find they get a glazed look in their eye which is them coping through the pain/contraction.
> 
> Good look op really you cant miss it once its started.


it really is a 'oh, is that it? is That it?.... ohhh, thats what it looks like' kinda thing... will drive you mad waiting for them at times!

my little kuki had that look from the first twinges... but thats the breed- they don't do pain  when her pups were a few days she was acting like she had eclampsia- the rolling muscle, whimpering, not wanting to stand etc... the little brat only had wind!! :cursing:


----------



## we love bsh's

kodakkuki said:


> it really is a 'oh, is that it? is That it?.... ohhh, thats what it looks like' kinda thing... will drive you mad waiting for them at times!
> 
> my little kuki had that look from the first twinges... but thats the breed- they don't do pain  when her pups were a few days she was acting like she had eclampsia- the rolling muscle, whimpering, not wanting to stand etc... the little brat only had wind!! :cursing:


Aww bless her how many did you get?


----------



## kodakkuki

we love bsh's said:


> Aww bless her how many did you get?


3  a lovely sir for her... her poor momma had 7 in one litter! 
now that was a Lot of puppy poo; i dread to think if the pups were 10 times the size!!


----------



## we love bsh's

kodakkuki said:


> 3  a lovely sir for her... her poor momma had 7 in one litter!
> now that was a Lot of puppy poo; i dread to think if the pups were 10 times the size!!


7  isn't that a lot for a small breed?


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks everyone 

I'm actually taking myself off to bed and leaving mum with her. I'm so tired I can't function properly lol so a good night sleep is what I seriously need. Mum will wake me if anything and she's off to bed at 1.30am. Blue would wake us if anything wouldn't she?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Mummy24 said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> I'm actually taking myself off to bed and leaving mum with her. I'm so tired I can't function properly lol so a good night sleep is what I seriously need. Mum will wake me if anything and she's off to bed at 1.30am. Blue would wake us if anything wouldn't she?


No, you need to stay with her. It's a sleeping bag job I'm afraid.


----------



## laurahair

Can one of you snooze in the same room as her? Might be advisable, you may get some rest that way but be aware of anything happening.


----------



## Mummy24

Okay 
Looks like ill be back on the sofa at 1amhaha


----------



## kodakkuki

we love bsh's said:


> 7  isn't that a lot for a small breed?


yup- her last litter incase it happened again! we couldn't belive it, but she was back in shape a week after the pups left!



Mummy24 said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> I'm actually taking myself off to bed and leaving mum with her. I'm so tired I can't function properly lol so a good night sleep is what I seriously need. Mum will wake me if anything and she's off to bed at 1.30am. Blue would wake us if anything wouldn't she?





Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, you need to stay with her. It's a sleeping bag job I'm afraid.


can't leave her side. the only way i got any sleep was becasue my girls sleep In my bed (or missy with mum) ... Missy had her first of the 7 on my mums pillow :smilewinkgrin: Right beside her head! and kuki was born on my duvet...
and gave birth herself on blankets and towels (it took me that many litters to think of protecting the bed! ut: )

she may not wake you- she may not want to make noise at all with the other dog in the house. maternal instinct does strange things to a girl!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Anyone who saw me would verify that for the first week I didn't eat or sleep pretty much, and that was after 36 hours waiting for her to whelp, and then opting for the c-section after a vet visit. You will look and feel like hell I'm afraid, but you need to be there for your girl in case she gets into trouble.


----------



## kate_7590

Getting very exciting!! Cant wait to hear about puppies


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> Okay
> Looks like ill be back on the sofa at 1amhaha


One reason is,if she doesn't open the sacs herself you need to do it or pup would suffocate in its sac.

It happened the other day in cat section someone found a kit dead still in sac as mum didn't do it.

Another reason is you need to time when pushing starts as you can leave her pushing too long or pup may be stuck birth canal and will also suffocate with cats is to the vets if nothing after 20 mins of pushing im not sure about dogs but im sure one of these will know.


----------



## MerlinsMum

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, you need to stay with her. It's a sleeping bag job I'm afraid.


SL is right. 
She needs you there with her, awake. She may either crave your attention and not settle down properly despite the pups on their way, or she may panic and need you there to calm her. At the very least she will get some comfort and reassurance from your presence.

If it means staying up all night and missing college, then that's what you need to do, I'm afraid - she needs you (or your mum) right there with her.

Not to mention, she MUST have supervision in case there is any problem with the birth.... It may be something as minor as helping break the sacs for her, through to something life threatening. If she's not watched and a complication arises, remember you could lose her - as well as the pups.

I'm sure I mentioned this on the other thread.... breeders move the kettle into the whelping room and sometimes also the microwave, and only leave the bitch when someone can come in to take over for a quick run to the loo.

And no, I'm not exaggerating! :frown5:


----------



## we love bsh's

kodakkuki said:


> yup- her last litter incase it happened again! *we couldn't belive it*, but she was back in shape a week after the pups left!
> 
> I bet you couldn't.


----------



## Malmum

It doesn't stop there either. For the first three weeks you have to 'special' her and take it in shifts for you and your mum to watch for her lying on the pups and smothering them. It's a 24 hour job. Kali sat on two of hers and we had to literally lift her off, she had no idea she was even sitting on them and at first they are too tiny to squeal and alert her. 

Not all fun and laughter this breeding lark you know, lol!


----------



## Mummy24

morning all  
just woke up for my night shift lol mum says shes been quite restless all night but she's just lying on the floor at the momnet
ill keep you all in the loop


----------



## Mummy24

She's very restless keeps getting up and walking around. Her whelping box also shows signs of nesting as all the newspaper has been muddled up


----------



## Malmum

Oow that's encouraging and sounds like she could be getting ready. Good luck.


----------



## Mummy24

fingers crossed! She's in the garden with me here now just lying down. Also she keeps scratching her ear with her foot lol. The shivering has stopped though


----------



## Mummy24

After about half an hour of restlessness she's lay down and gone to sleep


----------



## Malmum

Just keeping you on your toes and making sure you stay awake.


----------



## Mummy24

Haha I know little Madame 
I'm debating wether to try and get some more sleep while she sleeps lol


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> After about half an hour of restlessness she's lay down and gone to sleep


Time for you to grab some sleep close by her but keep those ears alert for any digging..panting or signs. Thats one good thing about having my girls sleep with me in the final nights of pregnancy..I feel their every move! Its like when you have a newborn baby..you kind of sleep but your senses are awake 24/7...lol.

Sounds quiet for now but that can change in minutes...

You sound more chilled...so that will help keep your girl relaxed.


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah I am loads more relaxed 
She keeps sort of jumping if that makes sense. She's lay down on the sofa with me now so I'm gonna try and get some sleep and hopefully things will kick off


----------



## Mummy24

well guys i didnt manage to get back to sleep lol 
she's been quite restless all night but no other signs except that


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

That's how it goes I'm afraid, all the signs are gearing up though.


----------



## Mummy24

yeah it does, doesn't it? 
as long as they are here by Sunday ill be happy haha


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Quick tip, get all your clothes and house hold washing done now, because that washing machine is going to be on fire when the pups arrive.


----------



## Mummy24

haha we are way ahead of you! 
mums been cleaning the house from top to bottom since Saturday and she isnt even finished yet! We're getting all our washing done today aswell lol


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> haha we are way ahead of you!
> mums been cleaning the house from top to bottom since Saturday and she isnt even finished yet! We're getting all our washing done today aswell lol


He he sound like me before I go into labour get all house work done first!


----------



## chaka

we love bsh's said:


> He he sound like me before I go into labour get all house work done first!


I always think it says something about my priorities that the day before I went into labour I didn't do any housework, but spent the day grooming the dogs.


----------



## kiara

Any update? X


----------



## Mummy24

On my way home now so ill update when I get there


----------



## Mummy24

Right well im home! 
Mum recons it'll either be tonight or tomorrow night. She's been very tired today, nesting and crying


----------



## Mummy24

oooh and the puppies have stopped moving!


----------



## AmberNero

Oh wow, I really hope it all goes really smoothly for you! and I hope you have a camera handy! My friends fostered a border terrier girl who came into rescue pregnant, and though it was extremely hard work they said it was also the most rewarding thing they had done, and it was absolutely amazing being able to be there for the birth- good job too as the little monster they went on to adopt needed help to start breathing when he came out- he had inhaled some gunk and would have died otherwise. Watching 8 new lives come into the world and saving one of them... not every day you get to be as involved as that!

So, enjoy it, I hope you don't have to get involved, but you have the emergency vets number, people on here for the odd question and lots of moral support from dingbats wot don't know nuffink bowt this baby malarky like me!  :thumbup:


----------



## Mummy24

thankyou hun im really excited and the nerves and anxiety have subsided which means i feel im enjoying it so much more!

we've got a puppy revival kit and also printed off instruction off the net so we know what to do if the worst were to happen.


----------



## AmberNero

Mummy24 said:


> thankyou hun im really excited and the nerves and anxiety have subsided which means i feel im enjoying it so much more!
> 
> we've got a puppy revival kit and also printed off instruction off the net so we know what to do if the worst were to happen.


Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, good thinking, batman! seriously though, you have a camera for the puppies too, yeah? But not flash photo's of course! You'll be harrassed no end for pics, be prepared, puppy pics are like drugs around here :lol:


----------



## Mummy24

thats my moto!

oh yes lol we have about 3 different types of camera lined up lmao!


----------



## CaliDog

I have just read this entire thread although I have no advice I want to wish you and your dog the very best and will be watching this thread like a hawk tonight on the look out for puppies!


----------



## Mummy24

okay well ive felt no movement from the puppies today, should i be worried? normally they're dancing around like its a boxing match! She's had a normal appetite although she has been restless still 
off to bed before i start my 1.30am dog watching shift haha


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Nope, they do go quiet before they make their way out. Fingers crossed all is going well.


----------



## Lumikoira

CaliDog said:


> I have just read this entire thread although I have no advice I want to wish you and your dog the very best and will be watching this thread like a hawk tonight on the look out for puppies!


Me too, feel exhausted just having read it, let alone what you've been through!

Fingers crossed for this evening


----------



## Micky93

AmberNero said:


> Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, good thinking, batman! seriously though, you have a camera for the puppies too, yeah? But not flash photo's of course! You'll be harrassed no end for pics, be prepared, puppy pics are like drugs around here :lol:


did someone say puppy pictures :drool: :w00t: :001_tt1:

Edit to add: GOOD LUCK!!!!


----------



## MerlinsMum

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Nope, they do go quiet before they make their way out. Fingers crossed all is going well.


If birth is imminent, they've had a dose of hormones from mum, telling them to get into birth position and stay still, ready for further Orders from Above.

I can visualise them lined up inside the uterine horns, calm and waiting. Some will be head first - some will be hind feet first (this is normal in animals and not breech birth so don't panic if they pop out the wrong way round).


----------



## Malmum

Oh wow - sooo exciting, I wonder how many she will have. Good luck and I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'm always up late, not a good sleeper you see, lol. Especially now!


----------



## Mummy24

Well mum stayed up all night so I could get a proper sleep lol and nothing to report  
She ate normally again this morning


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

That's how it goes I'm afraid, they keep you guessing, and then all of a sudden it all starts to happen. I'm afraid unless you know the exact date(s) she was mated, it is going to be a guessing game. It's still a guessing game if you know the exact dates, the vet actually said when he saw the pups from my bitch, that unless I'd told him they were a couple of days premature, he would have said they were overdue, they were such good sized chunky pups. They're all different I'm afraid, but hang on in there


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks Hun I will do lol 
She's looking huge now haha


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

She will do, keep a close eye on her, she must getting very close now so it's important to try and note her behaviour in case she is in any trouble delivering them herself. Hopefully she'll pop them out like shelling peas, but you just need to keep on watching her.


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah we're watching everything lol she must feel like she's on big brother haha


----------



## astro2011

I've been watching this thread like a hawk! Come soon lil pups!


----------



## Mummy24

okay so im a little worried 
i haven't felt pups move today or yesterday and someone said to go straight to the vets but we went on Monday and its so expensive id like your guys opinions if you think we should?


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> okay so im a little worried
> i haven't felt pups move today or yesterday and someone said to go straight to the vets but we went on Monday and its so expensive id like your guys opinions if you think we should?


Im pretty sure there fine its not always easy to feel them moving and most of the time there sleeping,imagine when there first born all they do its eat and sleep sleeping 90% of the time.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks hun this womans got me so worried lol 

"Kaytee Artistuk - I'm sorry, but I cannot just tell you what you want to hear. Certainly I hope that things are fine, however the information you provided does not add up that things are fine. Hope things work out for you. I personally don't accept what vets have to tell me unless my research agrees and/or I trust the explicitly. I would think your vet would have advised you of a better possible breeding date based upon his statement to you of 'before Sunday'. If this were my bitch and I wasn't feeling puppy movement for 2 days, I would already be at the vet"


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I was under the impression the movement stopped yesterday? 

How is your girl in herself?


----------



## Mummy24

yes it did and they havent moved today either  
shes fine in herself, sleeping alot, eating etc


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Just checked your post, 4:31am you posted you'd noticed they'd stopped moving, so it's not quite two days. Is there no movemet at all, have you sat with your hand resting gently on her tum?


----------



## Mummy24

no none at all 
ive sat and rested my hand on her stomach for around 5 minuets and felt nothing


----------



## chichi

They often..the pups I mean..go quiet in the last days. When this happens with my girls I let them sleep by me and I just gently lay my hands on their baby bulge and keep feeling until I feel some movement. If she is packed out with chubby pups then the movement may be very slight.

I breed Chis so maybe not so easy to feel larger breeds???

Personally..if I didnt feel pups move for 2 days I would see Vet..no price is too much to have your mind put at rest Imho.

Chances are..all is well but as you are a novice to breeding I would seek professional advice as there is only so much we can advise on without actually seeing your girl.

With regards this person saying your Vet should have given a more precise date for whelp...he isnt psychic and without precise date of mating and given that even then theres several days window for whelping...I think he has done his best.


----------



## we love bsh's

Can you take her into garden get her to move around a bit then get her to settle back down this should wake them up.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> no none at all
> ive sat and rested my hand on her stomach for around 5 minuets and felt nothing


5 minutes is nothing. Its taken 30 minutes or more for me to feel movement on a very packed out bitch.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

If there's been absolutely no movement since yesterday morning it's worth ringing the vet to speak to them. I'm afraid costs can creep up for a litter, but it's *our* responsibility to ensure the health and well being of the bitch and pups, after all, it's our choices that allow them to become pregnant in the first place.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks guys ill sit with her for longer and ill update in a bit


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> thanks guys ill sit with her for longer and ill update in a bit


But dont stress..chances are..all is well. Just keep relaxed and if no movement in an hour or so..call the Vet and see what he or she thinks. We have all had the same worries..those pups can really put the frightners on when they go all quiet but they are probably just catching some zzzzzzzzz's


----------



## miti999

What day do you think she's on? 

You could also have her scanned again to set your mind at rest


----------



## Mummy24

just felt some very slight movement on both her sides. Very faint though, thats a good sign right?


----------



## Mummy24

we dont know what day shes on 
all we know is that bleeding stopped end of feb/early march


----------



## Mummy24

temp taken and shes at 99.5'C. Her normal pregnancy temperature is 99.86'C so its a bit of a drop lol .01'F. 
She had some more discharge today and has starting paying a little attention to her rear end haha. Debating wether to get a good sleep tonight or stay up, she hasnt shown any other signs tonight except a little licking of down there haha, what do you think?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I would be staying with her and sleeping on the sofa, well, in my case it was the kitchen floor.


----------



## Mummy24

Aha ill stay with her then. ATLEAST I've got a sofa lol


----------



## Mummy24

Right guys nothing last night
However this morning she was very sick. It was clear and gooey (TMI) it had like white froth in it, is this normal?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

If you look at the list of what could happen leading up to whelping, there's quite a list, and going off their food with a slight bit of sickness is one of them. So yes, it is *normal* and she will still need a close eye keeping on her. Have you been keeping feeling for slight movement from pups?


----------



## Mummy24

That's the thing lol she's not off her food haha
Yes we felt movement last night


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

As long as you are still feeling movement, and she's showing no signs of having had contractions and is now doing nothing. 

With Tau, just to give you an idea, she was trying to have contractions and failing, you could see she'd go through phases where it looked like she was trying to go to the loo, but not quite in the right position, and then she'd stop. That went on, not very often, but she definitely had a few go's at pushing, until she finally came and stuck her head in my hands as if to say 'I've had enough Mum'. 

You really do have to keep a close eye on them, to see what's going on as much as possible, because they obviously can't tell you.


----------



## Mummy24

Thankyou
She's just been really sick again, it's like huge puddles lol


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I'm assuming she's eaten and drunk this morning from what you've said? And it's something she's had this morning that's coming back up? If so, is she fed kibble and has had a large drink of water separately?


----------



## Mummy24

No she hasn't had any water as she's not interested. She's eating normally though


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Is she on kibble or wet food? Sorry if you've already posted that info, I've got a brain like a sieve  

She'll have very little space in there and could very well have taken in too much than can fit at the moment. After all, she is a Labrador!!


----------



## Mummy24

She's on a mix of both lol haha yeah we were thinking that. Mums kept me off college today encase she starts as she's never been this sick before


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

They are all different, Tau did go off her food for the main part, and did get incredibly fussy straight after the pups arrived, just when she needed to get food down her and plenty of fluids for the pups. Have you got some goats milk in the cupboard? If not, get some in, you can buy the uht version at most supermarkets these days. I used tinned chappie to get some food down Tau, she is normally raw fed, but just turned her nose up completely at her normal diet, I tried cooked chicken and rive and a few other things, but the tinned chappie was all she'd nibble at.


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah we're all stocked up on goats milk and cottage cheese haha. She's losing some more clear discharge this morning aswell


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Fingers crossed today is the day, they do like to keep you guessing, but let's hope she has an easy whelp sooner rather than later now.


----------



## Mummy24

Really hoping today is the day I seriously can't take anymore of this worrying haha


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

The worrying has only just started, the pups are hard work, after the first few days, once they all seem to be doing well, you can relax a little, but still need to keep a close eye on them to make sure mum doesn't inadvertently sit/lie on any. But over a year on from Tau's pups going to their new homes, I still *worry* about and help the owners as much as possible.


----------



## Mummy24

me and mum were talking about that today funnily enough 
we're really excited now though, rather than worried as panicking lol
No more being sick she's just sleeping


----------



## AmberNero

Hows she doing now?


----------



## Mummy24

just took her out for a gentle walk and she was weeing tiny little bits every 10-20 seconds and she has the squits lol
took her temp when we got in and it was 38.5 C


----------



## AmberNero

No idea what the temp means, but poor girl, doesn't sound like labour is fun for any species! Not that I expected it to be though! Hope it all goes quickly and smoothly for her and pups and you and your mum xx


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Just hang on in there, all normal, as long as you're still feeling slight puppy movements and your girl is ok (apart from the side effects of being about to pop) then it's just a waiting game.


----------



## Mummy24

well we were just out in the garden and she randomly decided to dig a whole under a bush lol she was really going at it :rotfl:


----------



## MerlinsMum

She's definitely nesting. Don't let her dig a den though, she might decide to have her pups in it.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks guys ive got a feeling it maybe might be tonight. With the bad stomach and with the nesting it all kind of clicks. Plus there was more discharge this morning but only time will tell lol


----------



## miti999

Sounds promising


----------



## chichi

Sounds like she is revving up for lift off..dont let her out of your sight. Will check back later so please update as and when you can


----------



## Mummy24

i deff will  
she's just back to sleeping under the table at the moment and ate all her dinner


----------



## Malmum

Well she's kept us all on our toes for long enough so I hope it is tonight, bless her. 

Good luck and will keep checking this thread - as usual, lol.


----------



## BessieDog

I've been following this thread with interest. But I'm getting impatient now! Can't you give her a hot curry?


----------



## Mummy24

Lmao I wish! If there was anyway to speed this up I'd have done it already lol


----------



## Mummy24

no more news tonight guys
ive attatched a stomach picture, how many pups do you recon and how far along?x


----------



## MCWillow

I've been following this for the last 3 days - and I hardly ever come in the dog section!

As I have no knowledge of pregnant doggy tummies I would say she looks like shes having about 10 

Good luck, hope it all goes well x


----------



## Mummy24

thankyou  

Gosh i hope theres not 10 in there lmao


----------



## chichi

Pure guesswork as I am only used to tiny pregger bellies but Id say 7 pups...ish


----------



## Mummy24

im so excited lol 
how far along would you say?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> im so excited lol
> how far along would you say?


Impossible to say, except imminent!


----------



## Mummy24

Lmao I officially hate that word now!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I've dug this out, this is Tau when she was imminent, she had 8 in there


----------



## Mummy24

Ooh looks very similar!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Apart from the nipples, if you count them, my girl has one less


----------



## Mummy24

Haha now your trying to scare me


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Nope, it's not uncommon for bitches to have different numbers of nipples, Zasa only has nine, like her mum. Lexilou2's bitch Nala only has nine as well.


----------



## Firedog

My Bunty has an odd one as well.


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Lmao I officially hate that word now!


*imminent* IMMINENT _*imminent *_*IMMINENT* _IMMINENT_ *imminent* IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent imminent imminent IMMINENT imminent IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent imminent *imminent* IMMINENT _*imminent *_*IMMINENT* _IMMINENT_ *imminent* IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent imminent imminent IMMINENT imminent IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent IMMINENT IMMINENT imminent imminent

Better?


----------



## Malmum

This was Kali 3 hours before her first pup was born, very chilled she was. She didn't start pacing and panting until just before the first pup arrived. You may find that you are more bothered than your girl - I was anyway, Kali had seven boys and one girl. :001_wub:










Don't worry your girl will do just fine.


----------



## we love bsh's

Malmum said:


> This was Kali 3 hours before her first pup was born, very chilled she was. She didn't start pacing and panting until just before the first pup arrived. You may find that you are more bothered than your girl - I was anyway, Kali had seven boys and one girl. :001_wub:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry your girl will do just fine.


that's soo cute.


----------



## Hb-mini

I've just read this whole thread and I can't believe there is no puppies!! 
Look forward to hearing news!


----------



## haeveymolly

Well not added anything to this thread because i know absolutely nothing about breeding but keep coming on for the updates, hope everything goes well, hurry up blue i cant stand anymore suspense.


----------



## Mummy24

morning guys
im afraid theres no news  
we've read online though that their milk comes in 7-10 days before they give birth. Today is the 10th day after it came on so we're calling the vet again this afternoon, god they're gonna be sick of us! haha


----------



## Malmum

A couple of days either way is okay, especially as you're not sure of the mating date. Of my four children, one was two weeks early and one two weeks late - both were fine and the midwife wasn't at all worried. It's not set in stone on arrival date, just 'expected' date of delivery. Don't panic.


----------



## kiara

any update? x


----------



## Mummy24

okay well her most common temperature is 99.68 and at 4pmit was 98.68 so theres been a drop by a whole 1 degrees 
is labour happening?


----------



## Malmum

Wait and see, lol.  She'll let you know when she starts panting and pacing. Hope it's tonight.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> okay well her most common temperature is 99.68 and at 4pmit was 98.68 so theres been a drop by a whole 1 degrees
> is labour happening?


Dont you start that whole temperature taking business again  

As you already know..temps rise and fall..just watch her closely for the other signs. You cannot predict nature..pups will come when they feel the need.

You have to be a very patient Midwoof lol x


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I'm slightly worried as I thought the thermometer was in the bin, how on earth are they taking her temperature now


----------



## chichi

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm slightly worried as I thought the thermometer was in the bin, how on earth are they taking her temperature now


Think one of us will have to go over to Mummy's house and steal that darned thermometer


----------



## Mummy24

lmao we got another as vet advised taking twice a day temp which we have been doing 12hrs apart


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I personally wouldn't bother if it were my bitch, but I think twice a day won't do any harm as long as you keep it to that!!!


----------



## MerlinsMum

Are you taking temp at same times every day?


----------



## chichi

But you took the Mum to be's temp at 4pm....surely you werent sticking a thermo up her rear at 4am this morning??

Just dont want you getting hooked up on the temp taking again lol x


----------



## Malmum

chichi said:


> But you took the Mum to be's temp at 4pm....surely you werent sticking a thermo up her rear at 4am this morning??
> 
> Just dont want you getting hooked up on the temp taking again lol x


I just don't see the point in it all, it makes no difference to when the pups will come, they'll come if temps are taken or not. It just seems to be more of a stress to you op and if it is then it's more stress to mum. Sometimes 'a little knowledge can do a lot of harm' - good saying that!


----------



## Mummy24

no i took it at 6am this morning but mum wanted me to check it earlier as she was panting lol 
we're only taking it twice a day


----------



## we love bsh's

MerlinsMum said:


> Are you taking temp at same times every day?





chichi said:


> But you took the Mum to be's temp at 4pm....surely you werent sticking a thermo up her rear at 4am this morning??
> 
> Just dont want you getting hooked up on the temp taking again lol x





Malmum said:


> I just don't see the point in it all, it makes no difference to when the pups will come, they'll come if temps are taken or not. It just seems to be more of a stress to you op and if it is then it's more stress to mum. Sometimes 'a little knowledge can do a lot of harm' - good saying that!


And there was me thinking the thermometer had been binned.

Horses for courses I guess.


----------



## Malmum

Is temp taking something that is done in the cat world we love bsh's? Because I never did when I bred British Blues thirty odd years ago. Just wondered if you did it today - think my cats would have gone bonkers, lol! :eek6:


----------



## we love bsh's

Malmum said:


> Is temp taking something that is done in the cat world we love bsh's? Because I never did when I bred British Blues thirty odd years ago. Just wondered if you did it today - think my cats would have gone bonkers, lol! :eek6:


Tbh its rather frowned upon there just no point in adding the stress to the cat,never know you bred blues how lovely to know.

Ps they will simply come when they come.


----------



## Malmum

My fave BSH's, I had British Creams too but they were still a little stripy in those days. I bet their coat is more even in colour now - I love BSH's, beautiful apple faces, Silver Tabbies are another fave of mine. :001_wub:

Yours are beautiful BTW.


----------



## we love bsh's

Malmum said:


> My fave BSH's, I had British Creams too but they were still a little stripy in those days. I bet their coat is more even in colour now - I love BSH's, beautiful apple faces, Silver Tabbies are another fave of mine. :001_wub:
> 
> Yours are beautiful BTW.


At the last show there were some imported ones believed to be ticked based so looked good.

Others looked nice though not overly stripy.

Thanx for that were mainly colourpoints.


----------



## BessieDog

I come on here for a puppy update and find a discussion about cats? 

Oh well, we all have to try to pass the time I suppose. Better than just twiddling thumbs! 

How about letting off a firework, Mummy 24?


----------



## Malmum

We're getting bored waiting BessieDog, lol!


----------



## tincan

can we not share the concerns of our cats/ dogs together ??? 

tho different , tales can be helpful to all breeders , . and i agree better than twiddling the old thumbs ...... and perhaps better than using a thermometer every 5 minutes , or 12hrs , on a girl that needs calm, and patience so that she can give birth , without the stress of over anxious interference , her time will come


----------



## MerlinsMum

BessieDog said:


> I come on here for a puppy update and find a discussion about cats?


Of course! 
The alternative would be knitting. Or talking about the weather.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I'll keep my mouth shut, I cause enough trouble as it is!!


----------



## BessieDog

MerlinsMum said:


> Of course!
> The alternative would be knitting. Or talking about the weather.


Not expected to rain here tomorrow - how about where you are? 

ETA. I am actually knitting at the moment!


----------



## Malmum

Ha ha - we're all sitting here waffling on and I bet Mummy 24 is having a kip right now - not a care in the world while we are all on our toes.


----------



## we love bsh's

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'll keep my mouth shut, I cause enough trouble as it is!!


 think that bout myself sometimes.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

we love bsh's said:


> think that bout myself sometimes.


Not for very long though


----------



## BessieDog

Malmum said:


> Ha ha - we're all sitting here waffling on and I bet Mummy 24 is having a kip right now - not a care in the world while we are all on our toes.


I've got to go to bed in a sec as early start tomorrow. Hope she'll keep her legs crossed for a while now.


----------



## we love bsh's

Malmum said:


> Ha ha - we're all sitting here waffling on and I bet Mummy 24 is having a kip right now - not a care in the world while we are all on our toes.


Sorry in advance BD 

there was a pregnant cat in cat chat last year birth was thought to be very close and this thread went on for like 3 weeks or so before the kits were born reading this thread reminds me of that past thread.


----------



## BessieDog

3 weeks???

I'm definitely off to bed!!


----------



## chichi

tincan said:


> can we not share the concerns of our cats/ dogs together ???
> 
> tho different , tales can be helpful to all breeders , . and i agree better than twiddling the old thumbs ...... and perhaps better than using a thermometer every 5 minutes , or 12hrs , on a girl that needs calm, and patience so that she can give birth , without the stress of over anxious interference , her time will come


BSH got a telling off earlier in the week for advising on dog breeding yet her advice has been spot on for me..unlike a certain dog breeder who seemed slightly less than knowledgeable and experienced yet told BSH to get back to her moggies..lol..cheeky mare

I swear if Mummy's bitch doesnt perform this weekend..I will explode 

So yes..I think dog and cat breeding is fine discussed together


----------



## we love bsh's

BessieDog said:


> 3 weeks???
> 
> I'm definitely off to bed!!


lmfao 


chichi said:


> BSH got a telling off earlier in the week for advising on dog breeding yet her advice has been spot on for me..unlike a certain dog breeder who seemed slightly less than knowledgeable and experienced yet told BSH to get back to her moggies..lol..cheeky mare
> 
> I swear if Mummy's bitch doesnt perform this weekend..I will explode
> 
> So yes..I think dog and cat breeding is fine discussed together


Good memory chichi. and thankyou kindly for that means a lot.


----------



## MerlinsMum

BessieDog said:


> 3 weeks???


Well as Blue has had her milk in for 10 days, I don't think we'll be waiting THAT long.

Unless she pumps out the biggest trump in the world tomorrow, and says - as she gently deflates - "Ha Ha! Fooled You! I'm having a Phantom!" :001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:


----------



## tincan

chichi said:


> BSH got a telling off earlier in the week for advising on dog breeding yet her advice has been spot on for me..unlike a certain dog breeder who seemed slightly less than knowledgeable and experienced yet told BSH to get back to her moggies..lol..cheeky mare
> 
> I swear if Mummy's bitch doesnt perform this weekend..I will explode
> 
> So yes..I think dog and cat breeding is fine discussed together


,,,,

Oh i know she did chichi .... lol twas a bit rude by that breeder ...

sara's advice is always spot on exceptionally ethical re-her cats and breeding programme .... i have massive faith in her her , my coonie girls breeder tho good .... not a patch on Sara .... me too i am going to burst , im sure lot's of us are , including the viewers/ who non post ....


----------



## we love bsh's

tincan said:


> ,,,,
> 
> Oh i know she did chichi .... lol twas a bit rude by that breeder ...
> 
> sara's advice is always spot on exceptionally ethical re-her cats and breeding programme .... i have massive faith in her her , my coonie girls breeder tho good .... not a patch on Sara .... me too i am going to burst , im sure lot's of us are , including the viewers/ who non post ....


:blush: oh my.Many many thanx shirl.


----------



## AmberNero

*rubs sleepy eyes*

*pokes head round door*

...Puppies? ... No?

*sigh*

Hope everyone is doing well! (((hugs)))

*toddles off to bed*


----------



## we love bsh's

AmberNero said:


> *rubs sleepy eyes*
> 
> *pokes head round door*
> 
> ...Puppies? ... No?
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Hope everyone is doing well! (((hugs)))
> 
> *toddles off to bed*


He he very well described


----------



## paddyjulie

Wonder if we have pups this morning 

Feel like this pregnancy was longer than mine .... And that was of human kind :laugh:


----------



## Malmum

Was expecting the pitter patter of tiny paws were here. Got to be this weekend at some point. Ah well, 'everything worth having is worth waiting for' so they say and this lil lady sure is making us wait. Bless her.


----------



## Freyja

OP has not been on since last night so maybe things are happening and she hasn't had time to come on and update us all.


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Freyja said:


> OP has not been on since last night so maybe things are happening and she hasn't had time to come on and update us all.


I hope you're right have been a bit concerned watching this thread, but maybe it's because I'm waiting for Lily's (and my) first litter, Lily is 60 days today from first mating on 19th March, puppies soon  hopefully for both Blue and Lily


----------



## Darth

Im surprised how quiet the OP has gone.......


----------



## chichi

Darth said:


> Im surprised how quiet the OP has gone.......


Me too....hope all is well....


----------



## Mummy24

hey guys!
sorry i havent been on, didnt mean to worry you all 
No news here at all  x


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Glad all's ok even if the pups haven't arrived yet.


----------



## blossom21

Still no pups :confused1: its gotta be soon surely.Ive got a housefull for the weekend,so sneaking on when I can.Hurry up Blue.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> hey guys!
> sorry i havent been on, didnt mean to worry you all
> No news here at all  x


Oh goodness...those pups are obviously comfy and happy...the suspense is killing us PFers

Mind you...I have been told by another member to "get a life" over being interested in your girls forthcoming whelp (some people are sooooooo unpleasant) but I cant help getting excited when pups are on the horizon

Will check back later x


----------



## Amy-manycats

Come on Blue, we want puppies!

Hurry up and pop!


----------



## we love bsh's

chichi said:


> Oh goodness...those pups are obviously comfy and happy...the suspense is killing us PFers
> 
> Mind you...I have been told by another member to "get a life" over being interested in your girls forthcoming whelp (some people are sooooooo unpleasant) but I cant help getting excited when pups are on the horizon
> 
> Will check back later x


Utter nutter chichi  say no more.


----------



## blossom21

Still no pups,if I log off you bet they will make an appearance


----------



## BessieDog

blossom21 said:


> Still no pups,if I log off you bet they will make an appearance


Only if you stay logged off for about a week I expect!


----------



## Mummy24

STILL nothing! 
Mums starting to panic now which is so unlike her lol. It's been 11 days since her milk came in and she's been losing discharge for about 7 days.


----------



## Mummy24

ive got a few things i need help with guys

1. How long can a dog go overdue safely? Mums really in a state, poor thing lol 

2. Me and my little brother are off on holiday next Thursday and mums really worrying about coping with 4 dogs and the puppies on her own (regarding having no sleep at all cause she has to watch the puppies encase blue rolls on them) any help or suggestions as she'll be on her own.

Thankyou x


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> ive got a few things i need help with guys
> 
> 1. How long can a dog go overdue safely? Mums really in a state, poor thing lol
> 
> 2. Me and my little brother are off on holiday next Thursday and mums really worrying about coping with 4 dogs and the puppies on her own (regarding having no sleep at all cause she has to watch the puppies encase blue rolls on them) any help or suggestions as she'll be on her own.
> 
> Thankyou x


I cant see why its a problem  iv got 4 kids and breed and OH works away most time and I cope,so im sure your mum will cope.

All this worrying but you don't know when she mated so don't know if she is over due once again the pups will come when good and ready.

When the fruit is ripe it will fall from the tree


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> STILL nothing!
> Mums starting to panic now which is so unlike her lol. It's been 11 days since her milk came in and she's been losing discharge for about 7 days.


My girls usually dont get milk in until a few days before pups arrive but I think I remember one girl getting milk in a full week before the pups were due.

If you are talking clear stringy type discharge...yep...have had that go on for a good while before pups show themselves.

The best whelps for me are when theres no signs..then an hour or so of digging and toilet breaks and then out pops a pup!!

Its just a waiting game really.. Wont be long before you have a whelping box full of little chubby pups clambering around their Mum....such a beautiful sight:001_wub:


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> ive got a few things i need help with guys
> 
> 1. How long can a dog go overdue safely? Mums really in a state, poor thing lol
> 
> _I think the problem you have is that you don't know when Blue was mated, therefore everything regarding her due date is even more of a guestimate than if you had a 'mating date', I don't know who or how you would tell but am sure someone on here will help. _


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> 2. Me and my little brother are off on holiday next Thursday and mums really worrying about coping with 4 dogs and the puppies on her own (regarding having no sleep at all cause she has to watch the puppies encase blue rolls on them) any help or suggestions as she'll be on her own.


Can you cancel your holiday?

Because, to be honest, if she'd given birth a few days ago, your Mum would still be on her own watching them day and night by the time you leave.


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks everyone 

My mum had a minor stroke last year an suffers with emphysema lol so she will need some sort of break as such. Is there anything she can do while on her own?


----------



## Mummy24

Yeah she's just anxious about getting into the swing of it and she was expecting to have us here for the first day or two. We can't cancel as our dads taking us away for a treat as he's off to work overseas for a while


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> My mum had a minor stroke last year an suffers with emphysema lol so she will need some sort of break as such. Is there anything she can do while on her own?


sorry about you mum,strange that my mum did too.Hope she recovered well.


----------



## MerlinsMum

we love bsh's said:


> I cant see why its a problem  iv got 4 kids and breed and OH works away most time and I cope,so im sure your mum will cope.


With all due respect i understand it's different with dogs 

They need almost constant supervision for the first two weeks, not just for the risk of puppies getting squashed, but often the mother dog needs regular reminders to leave them to eat, poo and pee. You'd think at that time they would naturally eat well (as cats do) but many bitches don't, and have to be hand-fed, encouraged, pleaded with and pampered just to make sure they get enough nutrients.

There is also the risk of eclampsia, which is greater in dogs than in cats, and is life-threatening with rapid onset.


----------



## Mummy24

She's not to bad now just a bit forgetful and clumsy lol


----------



## Mummy24

Merlins mum do u have any suggestions?


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> ive got a few things i need help with guys
> 
> 1. How long can a dog go overdue safely? Mums really in a state, poor thing lol
> 
> 2. Me and my little brother are off on holiday next Thursday and mums really worrying about coping with 4 dogs and the puppies on her own (regarding having no sleep at all cause she has to watch the puppies encase blue rolls on them) any help or suggestions as she'll be on her own.
> 
> Thankyou x


As BSH said...you dont really have a "due date" so wont know when she has in fact gone over her due time.

If you are in any doubts/worries whatsoever you must rely on examination by your Vet. As a novice breeder with no Mentor as such..the Vet is your safety net.

With regards your Mum coping when the pups are here...it is tiring but I do it with kids..school runs..shopping etc. I usually run on adrenaline for a couple of days..then when I feel I am ready for collapse get a trusted person to watch the litter so I can shut myself away and collapse for hours without having 1 eye and 1 ear open. I sleep next to the whelping box for weeks. I am very much into the whole thing though and savour every moment so not sure every breeder would be quite so obsessive

When you get back from your hols..just make sure Mum gets plenty of chill out time and rest


----------



## we love bsh's

MerlinsMum said:


> With all due respect i understand it's different with dogs
> 
> They need almost constant supervision for the first two weeks, not just for the risk of puppies getting squashed, but often the mother dog needs regular reminders to leave them to eat, poo and pee. You'd think at that time they would naturally eat well (as cats do) but many bitches don't, and have to be hand-fed, encouraged, pleaded with and pampered just to make sure they get enough nutrients.
> 
> There is also the risk of eclampsia, which is greater in dogs than in cats, and is life-threatening with rapid onset.


I hear you  but I still feel new kittens need watching very closely for the first week,iv had to sit and hold kittens to the teat as sometimes they just don't get it,iv been know to have to sit holding kit to mum for a good half hour at a time till they get the idea.

Very worring time when new born,some new borns need a dose of sugar water to get them enough energy to feed.

Iv found mums reluctant to leave the nest in the 1st couple of days so food is also taken to them,bowl held till their done.

Kittens need to be kept very warm really surprising how warnm they need to be actually to able they to digest milk.

Daily weighing for the kits to make sure their gaining enough.

And obviously mum need monitoring not to suffocate kits and watching for infection in the early days.

So for me I feel its still very demanding work.


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Merlins mum do u have any suggestions?


I do  But you might not like it.... :lol:

Time to re-assess your responsibilities. 
Firstly to your mum, who from the sound of it needs support at the moment, and secondly to your dog, who also needs your practical help & support with her litter. Thirdly, you have a responsibility to both as leaving it all to your mum may not be the best idea.

Might be time to put on your grown-up boots and say to your dad you can't go on holiday, you have far too much on your plate at the moment and you are needed at home. If he is any kind of decent person, he should respect that


----------



## Mummy24

That great Hun 

She's just arranged for my cousin to come over and stay from not next Monday but the Monday after we leave for a week so she'll get some help 

The vet told us anyday now two weeks ago lmao nightmare!


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> She's not to bad now just a bit forgetful and clumsy lol


Sounds familiar,my mum is like a snail very slow :lol: but she was before.


----------



## chichi

Oh sorry..just seen your Mum has some health issues.

Perhaps a family member or friend could stay with her whilst you are away..just for support and to prepare some meals etc..as Blue will likely only want family members anywhere near her and the pups


----------



## Mummy24

She's just arranged for my cousin to come and stay while we're away 
Haha same with my mum, except now she uses the stroke as an excuse


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> She's just arranged for my cousin to come and stay while we're away
> Haha same with my mum, except now she uses the stroke as an excuse


wow is your mum my mum :lol:

she sometimes slurs her words and has a bit of a limp but im sure as with your mum..lucky to be here really.x


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> She's just arranged for my cousin to come and stay while we're away )


Sounds perfect...you get to spend time with your Dad whilst Mum gets support and help! All good Just need Blue to get a move on lol ...just kidding...nature will decide when those pups make an appearance


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Haha same with my mum, except now she uses the stroke as an excuse


Have to say, I don't think a stroke needs any excuse :sad: It's a fairly serious thing, and could happen again at any time, especially when someone is under stress. I'm full-time carer for my elderly mother who has a lot of health issues, so I know I have to put her first.


----------



## we love bsh's

MerlinsMum said:


> Have to say, I don't think a stroke needs any excuse :sad: It's a fairly serious thing, and could happen again at any time, especially when someone is under stress. I'm full-time carer for my elderly mother who has a lot of health issues, so I know I have to put her first.


I agree stress plays a big big part to a stroke my mums was caused by her loosing my dad 30 year sole mate.

I understand what op means though.


----------



## Mummy24

Well mum just came up to me and said 
'I don't want to excited you but blue seems quite restless but no other signs'
Fingers crossed aye


----------



## Malmum

Still cooking those pups I see, I bet they're all warm and comfy and don't want to come out. 

Your poor mum op, how will she be able to sit watch 24hours in case mum sits on any? I had one of my daughters with me and while one slept the other kept watch because they can lie on them at any time and suffocate small pups. You need two people in the first two weeks at least, if not three. 
Your mum has the two conditions I fear the most, emphysema is the worst thing ever, watched my father in law with it for years - so scary! Hope she's okay, poor love.


----------



## Mummy24

Thankgod my cousins coming to stay so they can swap shifts etc
It's so horrible it scares her to death the emphysemia. We have to get cabs everywhere as she can't walk far distances and it costs her a fortune!


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> Thankgod my cousins coming to stay so they can swap shifts etc
> It's so horrible it scares her to death the emphysemia. We have to get cabs everywhere as she can't walk far distances and it costs her a fortune!


Just for record op I didn't realise your mum had bad health before I asked why would it be a problem.an sorry if I came across harsh not intended at all.


----------



## Mummy24

It's fine Hun! You weren't to know 
On brighter news, we maybe might have some action tonight!


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> It's fine Hun! You weren't to know
> On brighter news, we maybe might have some action tonight!


Really interesting whats happening?


----------



## Malmum

Oh silly me, I forgot about your cousin and I'd only just read it too, lol - it's your puppy cooking Blue, she's got me going all awry! 

I know how awful that condition is and my worst nightmare tbh - yet I still smoke!  Did give it up for over a year but got fat and back problems, amongst others, so started again - daft eh?

Is Blue asleep now? Having asked that Kali was sleeping till right near the birth, she got up panted a bit, dug up her box paced the front room a few times with her teddy in her mouth (bless) then went back in her bed and started pushing - all in the space of an hour. So even if Blue is asleep she still may be nearly ready. So tough these mummy's are - not like me, fourth baby and I went to hospital thinking it was near and got sent home again for a few hours, ha ha - so embarrassing!


----------



## we love bsh's

Malmum said:


> Oh silly me, I forgot about your cousin and I'd only just read it too, lol - it's your puppy cooking Blue, she's got me going all awry!
> 
> I know how awful that condition is and my worst nightmare tbh - yet I still smoke!  Did give it up for over a year but got fat and back problems, amongst others, so started again - daft eh?
> 
> Is Blue asleep now? Having asked that Kali was sleeping till right near the birth, she got up panted a bit, dug up her box paced the front room a few times with her teddy in her mouth (bless) then went back in her bed and started pushing - all in the space of an hour. So even if Blue is asleep she still may be nearly ready. So tough these mummy's are - not like me, fourth baby and I went to hospital thinking it was near and got sent home again for a few hours, ha ha - so embarrassing!


love birth storeys were on baby num 6  gonna have home birth this time.

The OH better stay away with the thermometer..sorry op :lol:


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Thankgod my cousins coming to stay so they can swap shifts etc
> It's so horrible it scares her to death the emphysemia. We have to get cabs everywhere as she can't walk far distances and it costs her a fortune!


Still got my responsible hat on, I just can't see how missing out on these puppies development is less important than a holiday, or helping out your mum and Blue 

Holidays can be rescheduled. Puppies can't. Something sounds odd to me. This might be a once in a lifetime opportunity. Unless your dad is taking you to Antarctica, surely if you really care about your dog, her welfare and her puppies, that should come first? It's a no brainer for me and I can't understand why you would so easily go off and leave your mum to it.


----------



## Malmum

Too right MerlinsMum, you can holiday any time but your dog giving birth and raising a litter - well to me that's just so special. Much as it was hard work I wouldn't have missed one moment of it - the pups are only around for a few short weeks. 
Mind you I don't 'do' holidays, haven't had one in donkeys years because I don't trust people to look after the dogs properly and when I had to (hospital) one got pregnant - you see!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I've heard of bitches accidentally lying on and killing pups when they're a couple of weeks old. It's a non-stop job I'm afraid, as my friends would testify who came over to give me a break a couple of times. The easy part is when they're young, but you still have to watch them like a hawk so that mum doesn't lay on any of them, and that they're all getting enough milk. I never bothered weighing mince after the first few days (I lost one little bitch pup at two days of age), because they were all gaining weight nicely. And mine were all different colours and sexes so they were easy to tell apart. 

One of my friends came round when the pups were a few weeks old to look after them and let me have a break, she actually brought a book with her thinking she'd be able to relax and have a read 

I did chuckle as I ran out of the door as fast as my feet could take me, and when I got back only a few hours later, my friend who is normally *pristine* looked frazzled. A day cleaning up puppy poo and wee, feeding pups, taking mum and my other bitch out for separate wee's etc. And the mad thing is, she's still my friend


----------



## Firedog

Mummy24 said:


> It's fine Hun! You weren't to know
> On brighter news, we maybe might have some action tonight!


You keep saying that. :hand:


----------



## Darth

I'm beginning to wonder if these pups will ever make an appearance


----------



## miti999

Yeah what Darth said!


----------



## Mummy24

Still bloody nothing


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

As long as the pups are still moving. No sign of any contractions at all?


----------



## Mummy24

Not as far as we can see
Mum got excited last night as blue kept moving around and was really restless. For into her whelping box then sat by mum and kep switching positions


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

You need to spend time with her keep resting your hand on her side and feeling for slight movement. As has already been said, because you don't have a mentor, your safety net is your vet, none of us on here can help beyond responding to what you post, we can't actually see what's going on. If you're at all concerned you need to speak to your vets.


----------



## Mummy24

We can still feel slight movements


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Good, but remember that your girl and the lives of her pups are relying on you, if you're at all unsure about anything the vet is the best person to help in this instance, because they know you and your girl. It's a big responsibility, and as you've got no idea of exact dates and very little experience/knowledge, I would err on the side of caution and speak to the vets if you're at all unsure.


----------



## Firedog

I feel I am missing out, in all the litters I have bred I have never once felt the pups move.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Gosh!! Just the one I've had here and the pups were wriggling around trying to burrow their way out! They did go relatively quiet towards the end, but there was always some slight movement. By the time I took Tau in for a c-section, they were still moving, but the vets were concerned that they were becoming more and more quiet.


----------



## chichi

Firedog said:


> I feel I am missing out, in all the litters I have bred I have never once felt the pups move.


Really FD ... I can feel puppy movement for several weeks before pups make an appearance. Its amazing and wonderful ... and so reassuring...maybe its because Chis are so small you cant miss the puppy movement. Im not sure.

I also have a rough idea about how many to expect (unless its 4+ litter where they are just a bundle of movement) as I can feel the outlines of some of their bodies. Was really good when told by scan could only see 1 pup...by 6 weeks could feel two puppies...that was a proper relief...as the bitch was a small girl and may not have whelped a chunked up singleton.

As pups get bigger obviously space is limited so the movements get much fainter but still there.


----------



## Mummy24

Ooh we finally have some news haha
Blues teats have started leaking milk like whole droplets coming out


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Let's hope things will start moving now then.


----------



## Mummy24

How long before whelping does milk usually start leaking guys?


----------



## miti999

I didn't notice any leaking. It's a pity as the colostrum is very important and I think there's only so much at first !


----------



## chichi

Ive never had mine actually leaking milk by droplets pre whelp.

Hopefully she will progress very soon


----------



## Mummy24

Oh sounds promising then! Plus she was very restless last night. Fingers crossed thing start moving


----------



## SusieRainbow

In humans, even if the pregnant mum is still breastfeeding an older child, the breast milk changes to colostrum for the newborn. Amazing !! So I would think even if Blue is leaking milk she will produce colostrum for her pups.


----------



## Malmum

Oh yay :thumbsup: sounds like it won't be too long now. 

Colostrum lasts in people for 2 - 3 days then milk comes in and you look like you have a couple of Xmas puds down your blouse,  so would think its the same in dogs too. In fact breast banks ask women not feeding if they would consider donating their colostrum for the first couple of days - as SusieRainbow has said, its the birth that triggers it and what she's losing now is just pre birth dribbles. 

Keeping watch even more closely on this thread now.


----------



## Mummy24

She's been breathing rapidly for an hour or two but not heavily and no panting


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> She's been breathing rapidly for an hour or two but not heavily and no panting


Coupled with the leaking milk..may very well be the start of something. HOWEVER lol she has had us on tenterhooks for a week with her signs 

Just keep her settled and quiet and hopefully her body will kick into labour..those babies been cooking for long enough lol


----------



## MerlinsMum

The rapid breathing may well turn into panting as time goes on.

I was just thinking, too - don't know if anyone's given you an idea of litter size, but 10 wouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks Hun

She's sleeping ATM but is here next to me so I can see its quite fast especially compared to the other dogs

Oh wow! Haha the vet only saw 3 on the scan


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> Thanks Hun
> 
> She's sleeping ATM but is here next to me so I can see its quite fast especially compared to the other dogs
> 
> Oh wow! Haha the vet only saw 3 on the scan


She didnt look that big to me tbh but breeding the smallest of toy breeds..Im no expert in belly size when it comes to Blue sized dogs.... Chis can look like their tummy is about to explode when carrying 4 Pups but of course their bellies are wincy.

As for scans..good for confirmation of pregnancy and not much else. A Chi breeder friend was told to expect 6 or 7 from scan. Her bitch had 3. All a bit hit and miss really.


----------



## MerlinsMum

From what I've seen and read, and heard from others, scans are notoriously unreliable (the exception being some sheep scanners, who will also do dogs).

Several pups can be hiding up under the ribs... or in some cases, the number seen on the scan more than those eventually born (this can be due to re-absorption).

I've heard that an x-ray is the most accurate, some people I know in the USA had this done shortly before the due date, as their bitch had 11 in the first litter :eek6: & were counted in the xray, and they were happy when she delivered 7. It seems more common to xray over there than here.


----------



## Malmum

Well - I think the time has come to start guessing on how many babes have been baked. 

I'm going for seven - five boys and two girls.


----------



## BessieDog

Five. Two girls -three boys!


----------



## we love bsh's

8 ,5 boys 3 girls.


----------



## Luz

6, 3 of each.


----------



## AmberNero

7, four girls, three boys is my guess! Come on Blue :thumbup: Cor Mummy24 you must be so tired from being on watch by now, and poor you, it'll only be more hard work when the pups arrive!  Shall we stick on a brew now in anticipation of the lack of sleep?


----------



## CaliDog

am on tenderhooks now! will be watching close, i am guessing 6 2 boys 4 girls

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


----------



## chichi

7 pups ..

5 boys

2 girls

I never get the sex guess right on my own pups...I have to say. I went through a stage of lots of girls..then mainly boys (I have a MAJOR soft spot for boy pups)


----------



## MerlinsMum

9.
5 x male, 4x female


----------



## Firedog

11

4 girls
7 boys.


----------



## MCWillow

I reckon 7 - 4 girls, 3 boys.

I dont even know what breed she is!


----------



## MerlinsMum

MCWillow said:


> I dont even know what breed she is!


Yellow Labrador - so we are told (could be Lab cross, but similar looks and size). Sire of litter is Golden Retriever, although that makes no difference to the potential litter size.... that's all down to the dam and how many eggs she releases, and how much room she has for developing embryos. Being a relatively wide barrelled and long bodied breed, Labs can carry as many as 12 with ease.


----------



## Mummy24

Haha I'm going for 6, 4 boys 2 girls!
She's sleeping ATM still with rapid shallow breathing. I'm off to bed till 2am and then I'm on night watch so ill say goodnight and ill update when I can!
Oh yes I'm shattered lol I just want them here 
The mums a Labrador and the dads a golden retriever


----------



## Malmum

chichi said:


> 7 pups ..
> 
> 5 boys
> 
> 2 girls
> 
> I never get the sex guess right on my own pups...I have to say. I went through a stage of lots of girls..then mainly boys *(I have a MAJOR soft spot for boy pups)*


Me too chichi - I have a MAJOR soft spot for boy dogs in general! :001_wub:


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Morning Mummy24, Blue and everyone. How's Blue doing? I've just got up to sit with Lily and her new pups and have for the first time since early yesterday morning the chance to check this post. Hope all is going well and Blue's puppies are on their way.


----------



## chichi

Ann Elizabeth said:


> Morning Mummy24, Blue and everyone. How's Blue doing? I've just got up to sit with Lily and her new pups and have for the first time since early this morning the chance to check this post. Hope all is going well and Blue's puppies are on their way.


Oh the joys of having a litter to keep an eye on  Even when I dont have pups I wake in the night now. Its so annoying. Here I am wide awake and no beautiful pups to coo over 

Seems like Blue is still cooking those pups....


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

chichi said:


> Oh the joys of having a litter to keep an eye on  Even when I dont have pups I wake in the night now. Its so annoying. Here I am wide awake and no beautiful pups to coo over
> 
> They are beautiful but would love to see my bed last time I slept in it for more than 2 hours was Thursday - I'm too old to go without my sleep
> 
> Seems like Blue is still cooking those pups....


Maybe some pups today


----------



## Mummy24

Hey everyone
No news this morning she's eating breakfast as we speak haha


----------



## AmberNero

Oh jeeeeez she really knows how to tease a crowd! She must be huuuuuuge by now! Well heres hoping she has a restful day, puppies or not! And you and your mum of course!


----------



## Pezant

Oh dear, _still_ no pups? She really is holding out on you! Come on, Blue - surely you're tired of heaving them all round all day?


----------



## MerlinsMum

If she hasn't hsd them by Thursday, then we'll never know, as the OP is off on holiday and her mum doesn't come on here.


----------



## Mummy24

We're back to the vets tomorrow if she hasn't had them tonight so hopefully they can give us some answrrs


----------



## Malmum

Oh don't say that MerlinsMum, we'd all be left up in the air wondering.  OP you will have to update us via your mobile when you're away, holiday or not you can't get off that easily, lol. 

She MUST have them soon surely, she's been playing tricks with us for long enough now. Come on girl and stop keeping those pups in the oven, time to share I'm afraid!


----------



## Mummy24

Haha yes ill still update as mums gonna be updating me as recording them loads


----------



## Mummy24

well we've got another scan booked for tomorrow, mums hoping they come tonight to save the £70 lmao 
she still has the rapid breathing


----------



## MCWillow

Hoping your lack of updates means you are being midwife and everything is going well x


----------



## we love bsh's

MCWillow said:


> Hoping your lack of updates means you are being midwife and everything is going well x


Another cats galore case this one isn't it


----------



## BessieDog

Hopefully no news is good news? 

I'm starting to think Blue's having us all on and it's a phantom! Or the longest pregnancy in dog history.


----------



## Pointermum

Wow 49 pages and still no pups


----------



## Mummy24

hey everyone
no updates as there's nothing to update!  
We have the vets again at 4pm so hopefully they can shed some light and i can let you all know


----------



## Mummy24

Right back from long vet visit lol
She is full up of milk, her glucose, calcium and other blood tests are all perfectly fine. They xray'ed her and she's having 5 puppies and the skull's are not to big for her to give birth to so everything's in order


----------



## BessieDog

Hee Hee! I think I guessed 5! But then again, vets can be wrong! 

Glad all's well.


----------



## Malmum

That's good news and puts my estimate of seven out of the picture, lol. Now to continue waiting for them to make an appearance. 

Glad everything's okay with mum. xx


----------



## Malmum

BessieDog said:


> Hee Hee! I think I guessed 5! But then again, vets can be wrong!
> 
> Glad all's well.


Show off!


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks guys, we are much more relieved now she's had all the tests done.


----------



## BessieDog

Malmum said:


> Show off!


Hmm. But wasn't it Swarthy who said you can more or less double the number that a vet sees?


----------



## Mummy24

Haha don't say that! Gosh that would be something..


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

BessieDog said:


> Hmm. But wasn't it Swarthy who said you can more or less double the number that a vet sees?


For a scan yes, x-ray's are a little more accurate, you can count the skulls and spines


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

This was Tau's x-ray, not as clear as viewing the original, but you can still count some of the spines and skulls on there.


----------



## miti999

How exciting! 
Good luck! Did the vet say when he thought she might have them?


----------



## BessieDog

If the vet's been following this thread he wouldn't dare!


----------



## Mummy24

Haha!

No idea she said as its too late to estimate however she said she's full of milk so expects them very soon. They need to come tomorrow haha


----------



## Mummy24

I think she may go into labour tonight! 
Her temps dropped to 36.8 C. She's been nesting and refused breakfast


----------



## Mummy24

Panting has begun...


----------



## tincan

Oooohhh Fingers crossed this is it


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> Panting has begun...


Good Luck! hope Blue's puppies are here soon


----------



## we love bsh's

I actually think this is it.Lets see.


----------



## Malmum

Fingers crossed the long wait is over and its all happening now. Exciting eh?

Good luck OP and hopefully just in time for your holiday.


----------



## Mummy24

well she's been sleeping and nesting all morning
the whelping room is all re-disinfected lol and shes nesting now as we speak really scratching at the bedding. Going to re-check her temp at 2pm to make sure its stayed down this morning its been 
98.42
98.6

So if it stays down in the 98's we should have pups by tomorrow right?


----------



## idobelieveinfairies

Oh my goodness. Just read this whole thread right through expecting to see pups at the end lol. Good luck, hope it all goes smoothly. Good luck Blue.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks guys, she just started panting and licking but now she's laid back down. I think we can safely say this is it


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> thanks guys, she just started panting and licking but now she's laid back down. I think we can safely say this is it


get your camera ready


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> thanks guys, she just started panting and licking but now she's laid back down. I think we can safely say this is it


Oh my goodness...sounds like the real deal this time!!!

Dont think it will be too long before these pups FINALLY show themselves...yay


----------



## Mummy24

i know! haha me and mum are in shock as we were so npt expecting it. 
She's gone back to sleep after a little more nesting so fingers crossed tonight she will start popping those puppies  she started showing signs at around 9am


----------



## chichi

Make sure your Mum has access to the forum whilst you are away. She may need some support or advice..it can be pretty scary with your first litter..especially if your Mum is a bit of a worrier x


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> i know! haha me and mum are in shock as we were so npt expecting it.
> She's gone back to sleep after a little more nesting so fingers crossed tonight she will start popping those puppies  she started showing signs at around 9am


Sounds like shes feeling something indeed.


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> i know! haha me and mum are in shock as we were so npt expecting it.
> She's gone back to sleep after a little more nesting so fingers crossed tonight she will start popping those puppies  she started showing signs at around 9am


Could be before tonight..who knows..just dont let Blue out of your sight in case she pops a pup. Ive had less signs than you are getting before and out pops a puppy filled sac...


----------



## we love bsh's

and have your towels to hand to rub the puppies.


----------



## Mummy24

bless her she's gone to lay in her whelping box and is fast asleep again 
yeah we have all the equipment ready next to the box so its all in close reach  
She's blowing off for england lmao it stinks in here! 
Im gonna leave mum the forum details so she can log on x


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Sounds like those puppies are on their way, as others have said keep an eye on her now! Lily had been nesting early on sunday morning, had a sleep woke up and started panting again she was sat next to me in the whelping room gave a little yelp and the first puppy was born. I was almost as suprised as Lily! 

Good luck


----------



## Mummy24

its a mad house at the moment
buster (our golden retriever) has only gone and cut his paw open! Bloody typical lol so im about to take him to the vets while mum stays at home with blue, phew!


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> its a mad house at the moment
> buster (our golden retriever) has only gone and cut his paw open! Bloody typical lol so im about to take him to the vets while mum stays at home with blue, phew!


Oh goodness..never mind..you and your Mum have it all under control. Thank god this all happened today and not tomorrow when your poor Mum would have had to cope with accidents and Blues whelp all alone.

Have to go on school and shopping run now but will check back later..hopefully things continue to progress nicely with Blue and those pups


----------



## chichi

Oh..forgot to say that I hope Buster is okay...poor boy.


----------



## AmberNero

Poor Buster, hope his paw is a nice simple quick fix- and Blue in actual labour! busy night ahead then!

Best of luck! xxxx

I am EXCITED!!!


----------



## Malmum

Oh poor Buster, pretty bad timing eh? Hope he's okay. 

These two kids of yours are full of drama and suspense aren't they - could make a soap of the last few days, lol.


----------



## Mummy24

Right back from the vets lol busters paw is glued and he's got a bootie on. Blues panting an sleeping on and off. I'm bloody shattered already lol


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Glad Busters paw is sorted, will check back later to see how things are going with Blue


----------



## Malmum

AmberNero HOW DO YOU DO THAT??? I am very impressed as its all I can do to embed a YouTube video  love it!


----------



## AmberNero

Go to google and type in the thing you want to find as a .gif file. I searched for 'Excited gif' last time, and for this;








I typed in Malamute gif.

Select the image, right click on it, and chose 'Copy image URL'

Back to your post on PF, click on the add image button and paste the URL, as you would with a still image. Post and...


----------



## sashski

I've been following this thread from the very beginning, what a story! Every day I log on and come straight to this thread hoping to find pictures of puppies and as of yet nothing!! I need a puppy pic fix :lol: !

Come on Blue!!

Healing vibes to Buster too  xx


----------



## blossom21

Fingers crossed they are born this evening, I will keep logged on.I think Blue knows we are all waiting with bated breath and is deliberately holding them in.


----------



## canuckjill

anxiously waiting........good luck Blue and family and heal fast Buster...


----------



## Mummy24

we're a little worried
her heartrate is extremely fast and she's breathing rapidly through her nose rather than panting which has ceased
is this normal?


----------



## astro2011

If your worried speak to your vet. I'm not sure if its normal, but hopefully someone will come soon.


----------



## chichi

How is Blue now?


----------



## Mummy24

we spoke to the vet who said it was normal, phew! 
She's back to heavy panting lying in her whelping box, alternating between the box and under the sofa


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Hi hope Blue's ok and you and your mum are reassured by the vet, I've just had my first litter (19th May) and I found myself worrying about Lily, but managed to stay calm and all went well as I'm sure it will for you. Hopefully won't be long before the first pup makes it's appearance! 
Hope Busters feeling better.


----------



## SusieRainbow

In a human this is not a good sign, could be that labour is not progressing well. I would advise an urgent call to the vet myself.Have you checked her temperature ? These are signs of distress.

Edit to Add


Sorry, just saw your last post - I should stick with human midwifery !


----------



## Mummy24

thanks hun 
yeah busters right as rain lol little munchkin! 
She's gone really really quiet now and is just hiding under the sofa, is this normal?


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> thanks hun
> yeah busters right as rain lol little munchkin!
> She's gone really really quiet now and is just hiding under the sofa, is this normal?


I'm lucky Lily's whelping box is in my spare bedroom and I had the door shut, but she did try to get under the coffee table that I'd put in there, I put spare cushions towels under it to stop her as I was concerned she'd give birth under there. I'd try to persuade her out just in case.


----------



## we love bsh's

Sounds very very close just be calm around her or she will pick up on your stress vibes stroke her and act normal around her,relax.xx


----------



## Mummy24

she's lying under the sofa and has stopped panting and is very very quiet
we've called the vet already once lol so dont want to call again without good reason
would you be concerned?


----------



## chichi

My girls often try to burrow into a quiet place just before whelping.

You could try putting up a blanket around her whelping box (like a tent type arrangement). She may just be needing solitude. Not that you can be far from her. Where are the other dogs. They should be well away from the whelping room..not within seeing or hearing distance of Blue or she may just carry on holding on to those puppies.


----------



## MerlinsMum

Get her into her whelping box and try to calm her. You won't be bale to assist her if she's under the sofa, or see what's going on.

Has there been any discharge?
Have you observed any contractions?

(These are things the vet will ask you if you do call again).

Possibly the contractions haven't started yet, she is just in first stage, which means it's important to get her out from hiding and calm her as much as you can, stay with her and stroke her. If she wants to give birth on the sofa and refuses to settle in the box, just get lots of waterproof sheeting and towels under her. Don't let her hide!

Make sure your other dog is shut away in another part of the house where she can't hear him. Put on some classical music if it helps you to stay calm - it won't do her any harm either!


----------



## MerlinsMum

chichi said:


> You could try putting up a blanket around her whelping box (like a tent type arrangement). She may just be needing solitude.


Good point!!!!!! Yes!!!! try to make the whelping box more like a den. I have heard of some breeders putting a table over it, and then pegging blankets round the sides.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks everyone
yes the other dogs are out of sight and not near the room at all. Ive tried coaxing her out but she wont come
When she started whelping her temp was 98.6'C now its dropped down to 97.6, is this normal?


----------



## Malmum

Can you lift the sofa up and carry it to another part of the room - with help of course and very carefully?


----------



## Mummy24

So she's gone from being quite frantic with her panting and nesting to silent, lying still under the sofa. Her temperature has dropped from 98.6 to 97.88. Should i call the vets or not?


----------



## cinnamontoast

For advice, yes, good idea.


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> So she's gone from being quite frantic with her panting and nesting to silent, lying still under the sofa. Her temperature has dropped from 98.6 to 97.88. Should i call the vets or not?


Shes probably going to wait till everyone sleeping or when its quite in the house if they don't feel the conditions are right ie calm/relaxed they can hold off.

I would lay off the temp taking now as you don't want to cause any stress to make her hold off,she may be going under sofa as she wants the peace and safety.

You have to give her body time to progress.

Call vets if she is actively pushing for 20 mins but nothing is happening.

For now I would just let her get on with it.

Agree with others about her birth box/den.

And good luck


----------



## Mummy24

oh yeah deff ive not really been taking it to be honest, only twice a day. I just wanted to make sure she was actually in labour and it was staying down if you know what i mean?

i guess its a waiting game now


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> oh yeah deff ive not really been taking it to be honest, only twice a day. I just wanted to make sure she was actually in labour and it was staying down if you know what i mean?
> 
> i guess its a waiting game now


The waiting is awful isn't it,i reckon Its most likely going to be early hours you know when she know all will be quiet I the house.


----------



## Mummy24

i really hope it is lol she's worrying me so she just needs to get them out


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> thanks everyone
> yes the other dogs are out of sight and not near the room at all. Ive tried coaxing her out but she wont come
> When she started whelping her temp was 98.6'C now its dropped down to 97.6, is this normal?


I'd stop taking her temperature, and as others have already said stay calm, stroke and reassure her, I played meditation music (quietly) all day for Lily (and me) just a thought if you can't move the sofa can you turn it on it's back so she cant get under it? Whatever you do be careful.


----------



## MerlinsMum

You must get her out from under the sofa. 
Otherwise you will not know if she's progressing normally, and won't be able to assist if she needs it.
Sorry, it's a bit important:nono:


----------



## chichi

Cant add anything to MerlinsMums advice. Keep us posted.


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Good Luck Blue & Mummy24, I must log off for now to get some sleep before getting up at 2am but will check in then, will be thinking of you


----------



## Malmum

She's in labour and I can tell you you don't feel like running about at such a time. It's a time to relax and prepare for the marathon ahead for which she's going to need all her strength. The last thing she needs is pestering. 

When I was in labour taking stock,resting as much as I could and my husband came over and started furiously rubbing my back I just wanted to punch him in the face!  You need peace and calm, not someone dishing out their nerves onto you and animals are no different. 

You're going to have a late night for your early start tomorrow eh? What time do you leave for your holiday?


----------



## idobelieveinfairies

Hope everything is going ok. xx


----------



## hippymama

how exciting , I bet you can't wait to see these pups it sounds like she's kept you waiting long enough  good luck 

am I the only one wondering what type of sofa you have that can fit a Labrador underneath ??


----------



## chichi

Ann Elizabeth said:


> Good Luck Blue & Mummy24, I must log off for now to get some sleep before getting up at 2am but will check in then, will be thinking of you


Have a good sleep..lucky you..having those beautiful pups to watch ..even if it is in the middle of the night lol x


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

chichi said:


> Have a good sleep..lucky you..having those beautiful pups to watch ..even if it is in the middle of the night lol x


No news?

Didn't feel lucky when my daughter woke me half an hour ago! But have enjoyed the sleep, 1st time I've seen my bed since last Friday :lol: the pups are beautiful!


----------



## Malmum

Isn't it tiring AE? My daughter and I took it in turns and the Mal pups were so noisy once they started moving around at two weeks that we'd tip toe so as not to wake them - then Kali would come in, rough them up and s*d off again leaving it all to us, lol. It just got worse as the weeks went by - such vocal dogs Mals. Five years to the day since they were born and I wouldn't go back again I can tell you. First two weeks were the worst though for lack of sleep, so I don't envy you one bit. 

Mummy24 is going on holiday today so her mum will be doing the midwifery, poor mum having to cope with all that - good job her cousin is staying for a while but a big loss for OP in missing those first few days eh?


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

it is tiring and though its many years since I had my own children this is taking me back! I'm really missing my other two dogs, they're staying with my son and his GF this week so am having 'walk withdrawal' symptoms as well! 
I realised the op is due to go on holiday today - she'll be worn out if she's been up all night with blue-and will miss out on a lot, its hard to believe that Lilys pups are only 4 days old today each is developing it's own personality, watching Lily with her pups is a revelation in itself.


----------



## Mummy24

she's still here bless her 
she's panting and cleaning herself all over alot 
no sign of any straining yet


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> she's still here bless her
> she's panting and cleaning herself all over alot
> no sign of any straining yet


Oh poor Blue! Hopefully it won't be much longer for her now, what time are you leaving for your holiday?


----------



## Mummy24

i leaving at 5.00pm so she should hae had them by then


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> i leaving at 5.00pm so she should hae had them by then


Hopefully for Blue, you and your mum. Lily had four puppies. 1st at 9.45am 4th at 5.00pm, long wait, Lily had a nap between pups 1 & 2 and another rest between pups 3 & 4. All you can do is keep her calm, I spent a lot of the day talking to her, listening to meditation music, taking her into the garden to toilet ( I had & Have set up a 'toilet station' inside for her but she insists on going out) keeping her hydrated etc. It's a very tiring time for all, and you will need to be patient for maybe a while longer yet.


----------



## Mummy24

thanks hun yeah im shattered! haha she's been going since 9am yesterday morning


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> thanks hun yeah im shattered! haha she's been going since 9am yesterday morning


It is hard work, and harder once they are born! Lily started showing signs - panting/digging on the friday, 36 - 48 hours before first pup was born!


----------



## Mummy24

wow! haha. im hoping she's had them before i go tonight. She's started panting again now, she must be so tired poor thing


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> wow! haha. im hoping she's had them before i go tonight. She's started panting again now, she must be so tired poor thing


Should say Lily wasn't panting and digging for the whole 36/48 hours she had long periods in between where she slept, ate little 'snacks', went out to toilet. Blue will be tired, and will need your support and comfort, I know it must be difficult but try and forget about your holiday for now and concentrate on Blue, if you get anxious wishing them (the pups) to hurry and be born you'll pass that anxiety on to her.

It's worth it though I'm sat in whelping room, Lily is in the box with her pups who are at the moment feeding, Lily looks asleep but the minute one cries she lifts her head to see whats happening.


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Hope all is going well and that because there's no news on here that you are busy with Blue delivering pups!


----------



## cats galore

i've been watching this thread for what seems like ages now - hope all is going well with Blue


----------



## kiara

any news? x


----------



## Mummy24

She started pushing at 16.39pm. No sign of pupps yet...


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Mummy24 said:


> She started pushing at 16.39pm. No sign of pupps yet...


Oh Bless her, come on Blue you can do it girl !!!

You must all be tired and getting quite anxious now, hope it isn't too much longer.

Will you still be leaving at 5.00pm?


----------



## AmberNero

Good luck Blue! xx


----------



## MaisyMoomin

Mummy24 said:


> She started pushing at 16.39pm. No sign of pupps yet...


Now that's precise timing lol.

Good luck!


----------



## chichi

Mummy24 said:


> She started pushing at 16.39pm. No sign of pupps yet...


May take a little while for first pup to make its way down but should be soon

Go Blue...cant wait to see those long awaited pups


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> Now that's precise timing lol.
> 
> Good luck!


Thought you told me to get a life and stop posting on this "fake thread" 

Troll........


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> Now that's precise timing lol.
> 
> Good luck!


Stop posting on my wall...it is a troll free zone


----------



## Firedog

Mummy24 said:


> She started pushing at 16.39pm. No sign of pupps yet...


Do you mean 15.39?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Pushing, or contractions? There's a difference.


----------



## chichi

MerlinsMum said:


> Pushing, or contractions? There's a difference.


I think the OP has gone on holiday now...so not sure if..when..we will be updated on Blues progress.


----------



## Darth

It's a bit odd isn't it?

OP been posting for days...and days.... and days.

Then goes on holiday at the crucial point!

Hmmm....


----------



## MaisyMoomin

chichi said:


> Thought you told me to get a life and stop posting on this "fake thread"
> 
> Troll........


:cornut::biggrin::cornut:


----------



## we love bsh's

MaisyMoomin said:


> :cornut::biggrin::cornut:


get a life you eejit. Are you going for worlds best rep count :lol:


----------



## MaisyMoomin

we love bsh's said:


> get a life you eejit. Are you going for words best rep count :lol:


Yes words best eejit :lol:


----------



## we love bsh's

MaisyMoomin said:


> Yes words best eejit :lol:


 sad.

Ah well play with ya self weirdo.


----------



## canuckjill

Everyone play nice....Wowsers


----------



## canuckjill

and BTW my time is 12 41 pm May 23/2013 (so if I quoted time it would be past tense to you guys) so it really depends where she lives and if she's used to using the 24 hour clock instead of the 12 hour clock...


----------



## Firedog

canuckjill said:


> and BTW my time is 12 41 pm May 23/2013 (so if I quoted time it would be past tense to you guys) so it really depends where she lives and if she's used to using the 24 hour clock instead of the 12 hour clock...


Yeah I get that now just confused because she said 16.49 and it was only about 16.05 when she said it.


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> Yes words best eejit :lol:





canuckjill said:


> Everyone play nice....Wowsers


Hey Jill

MaisyMoomin has some gripe because she was pulled up on giving "advice" when clearly lacking breeding experience. Shes kinda butt hurt bless her...:001_rolleyes:


----------



## MaisyMoomin

chichi said:


> Hey Jill
> 
> MaisyMoomin has some gripe because she was pulled up on giving "advice" when clearly lacking breeding experience. Shes kinda butt hurt bless her...:001_rolleyes:


Absolutely, I don't pimp out all my pets like you & the moggie breeder :biggrin5:


----------



## chichi

MaisyMoomin said:


> Absolutely, I don't pimp out all my pets like you & the moggie breeder :biggrin5:


You have bred though so that makes you an inexperienced pimp in that case...

My dogs lives the lives of Princes and Princesses...probably eat better food than you do.

You sound messed up in the head...I feel sorry for the bitch/pups that you have bred.

Now go hijack another thread...cos you are getting boring:001_rolleyes:


----------



## we love bsh's

MaisyMoomin said:


> Absolutely, I don't pimp out all my pets like you & the moggie breeder :biggrin5:


How do you know we stud out our pets


----------



## chichi

we love bsh's said:


> How do you know we stud out our pets


She knows nothing...clearly

She is one very sad individual:mellow:


----------



## MerlinsMum

And..... *poof* she's gone....


----------



## Malmum

I hope this isn't a fake thread, would be some kinda Munchausen m'larky if it were. I did think the Lab under a sofa was strange, no way could Kali have got under a dining chair let alone a sofa, unless it had two foot legs but I thought: "No, no one would do that!" although the going away just as she starts pushing....hmm! You can't talk your way through fake births amongst some of the experienced breeders on here. 

We shall see but I'm looking at it slightly differently now after two suspicions have sprung to mind. :skep:


----------



## MerlinsMum

I voiced my suspicions privately to SL before the holiday thing cropped up.

And my post about the "fart" was also due to my doubts, but couched in a humorous way, whilst giving the OP the chance to say it was a phantom pregnancy and save face, if it was indeed a wind-up.


----------



## chichi

Maisymoomin left me neg rep after me asking how much breeding experience she had...stating something like "get a life and stop posting on a fake thread" so I have had my doubts but its hard when you have a troll whispering in your ear to be sure


----------



## MerlinsMum

chichi said:


> Maisymoomin left me neg rep after me asking how much breeding experience she had...stating something like "get a life and stop posting on a fake thread" so I have had my doubts but its hard when you have a troll whispering in your ear to be sure


How would she have known it was a fake thread, if it indeed is?


----------



## canuckjill

only time will tell, but even if it is fake there is good information on this thread for others...


----------



## chichi

MerlinsMum said:


> How would she have known it was a fake thread, if it indeed is?


Only if she was involved in it. Shes said a few things but Newfiesmum has just deleted half my wall posts..which was very rude of her.

No doubt she will close this thread...must be a boring night for her or something


----------



## MerlinsMum

chichi said:


> Only if she was involved in it.


That's what I was wondering.


----------



## MerlinsMum

canuckjill said:


> only time will tell, but even if it is fake there is good information on this thread for others...


It has certainly put us all through our paces! :001_rolleyes: Quite a good thread to get involved with on my return, it's certainly given me respect for some of the members on here. Thanks guys


----------



## Malmum

It's been a good experience really and as canuckjill said lots of good info. I sort of hinted about the 'drama' when Buster cut his paw - everything seemed to be happening. 

Ah well, we all had a good chat, shared experiences so no harm done - but very weird all the same, that's if it was indeed a wind up. 

ETA - Thing is, if this thread is fake then so are all the others leading up to it - now that would be seriously strange but then I suppose some folk are eh?


----------



## Mummy24

Woah why have I been accused of being a fake? I came onto update that blue has had 3 puppies so far. She actually ended up having one in the vet car park lol we had to leave to get to hotel but just spoke to mum who said she's ha 3 so far and all are doing well. Ill post a picture I got in the vets asap


----------



## Mummy24

In the vets


----------



## Malmum

Don't worry, we weren't saying that you were but that you could be because we've seen similar before - people have done some amazing things on here before. Stick around and you will see. 

You tend to get suspicious and put two and two together, sometimes coming up with three but often getting it right!


----------



## Mummy24

Ill deff be sticking around lol
She had the first one in the vets car park it was manic l they sent us home an I had to catch my train. So just spoke to mum who said she had the next two around an hour later and they were around 10 minuets apart  all doing well


----------



## MCWillow

Oh bless - look a her little face.

After reading these threads in the breeding sections, I could never breed - I would be a nervous wreck!

Hope your mum is OK, keep us updated


----------



## Malmum

Awe bless look how tired she looks and look at that little shaved belly. 

What sexes are the three babes?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Well blow me down sideways and tickle me with an ostrich feather! 

Fantastic news, hope the rest of the litter is delivered safe and well, looking forward to updates xx


----------



## moggiemum

congrats and best wishes blue and family


----------



## Ann Elizabeth

Good morning, well done Blue, have just seen this as I've grabbed a few hours sleep before my night shift, congratulations Mummy24, glad you got to see one born before you had to leave, let us know how many and what gender etc Enjoy your holiday


----------



## sashski

Yaay puppies!!!! 

Hope blue and the pups are doing well. 
X


----------



## Mummy24

Hey everyone thankyou!
I'm actually on the plane at the moment lol it's got free wifi how posh! Tried to get hold o mum this morning to see how puppy's and blue are doing but no answer, she must have her hands full lol
Actually can't wait to get home and be with them all


----------



## cats galore

Mummy24 said:


> Hey everyone thankyou!
> I'm actually on the plane at the moment lol it's got free wifi how posh! Tried to get hold o mum this morning to see how puppy's and blue are doing but no answer, she must have her hands full lol
> Actually can't wait to get home and be with them all


are you on holiday for a fortnight or just the week. what terrible timing for you, a great holiday but desperately wanting to be home. hope blue and the pups are doing well. enjoy your hols, the pups will be waiting for you when you get home


----------



## miti999

That's a big puppy!


----------



## Mummy24

We're on holiday for 9 days I'm actually gutted. It's so typical that they decided to come the night I was going away 
So glad I saw one being born though, going to enjoy my holiday knowing Ive got something waiting for me when I get home haha


----------



## I love springers

Congratulations on the long awaited arrival of the puppies. Hope all is going well and mum and babies are ok..:thumbup1:


----------



## we love bsh's

How many pups did you get? What colours?


----------



## rona

Mummy24 said:


> We're on holiday for 9 days I'm actually gutted. It's so typical that they decided to come the night I was going away
> So glad I saw one being born though, going to enjoy my holiday knowing Ive got something waiting for me when I get home haha


Just back in time when you start taking over more and more from doggy mum and there starts to be "a lot" of cleaning


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## Firedog

Congratulations.


----------



## something ridiculous

Is it just me that still finds this thread a little suspicious? Just as everyone starts to openly question the validity of it, suddenly puppies are born. Whenever the thread has gone a little quiet in the past, suddenly she is showing signs etc. 
And I am still wondering how a Labrador fits under a sofa


----------



## cinnamontoast

Wifi on the plane? Using a mobile?


----------



## chichi

something ridiculous said:


> Is it just me that still finds this thread a little suspicious? Just as everyone starts to openly question the validity of it, suddenly puppies are born. Whenever the thread has gone a little quiet in the past, suddenly she is showing signs etc.
> And I am still wondering how a Labrador fits under a sofa


No...its not just you


----------



## Malmum

something ridiculous said:


> Is it just me that still finds this thread a little suspicious?
> *And I am still wondering how a Labrador fits under a sofa*[/QUOTE
> 
> Especially seeing the size of her in that pic, perhaps op's family have very long legs!
> Am sure the op will show us how when she gets home - right op?


----------



## Darth

Has anyone else noticed the questions asked in the thread haven't been answered? Like, how many pups? what colours? After all this time and all those false labours I'd be only too pleased to share that news! 

Out of interest, I'd like to know why she was at the vets during the birth? Or have I missed something? 

The birth as the OP's just about to leave for her holiday.....?

Also can you use a mobile on a plane and do planes have wi-fi....?

And last but not least there's the pregnant Labrador under a settee!


----------



## chichi

Darth said:


> Has anyone else noticed the questions asked in the thread haven't been answered? Like, how many pups? what colours? After all this time and all those false labours I'd be only too pleased to share that news!
> 
> Out of interest, I'd like to know why she was at the vets during the birth? Or have I missed something?
> 
> The birth as the OP's just about to leave for her holiday.....?
> 
> Also can you use a mobile on a plane and do planes have wi-fi....?
> 
> And last but not least there's the pregnant Labrador under a settee!


As I said yesterday...Maisymoomin was trolling me and BSH and she has made a couple of off-thread remarks to me about this being a "fake thread" .... MM has now been banned so we are not likely to hear from her any time soon...but I do wonder if she is lurking under another username.

I will reserve any puppy congratulations until there are some answers on this thread......


----------



## Malmum

Stranger things have happened on here eh chichi?


----------



## chichi

Malmum said:


> Stranger things have happened on here eh chichi?


For sure...


----------



## Debbierobb109

You can get wifi on delta airlines 
Dogs can also squeeze themselfs into the most ridiculous of spaces
She didn't know the dog was pregnant.....and the holiday was most likely planned in advance......


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## kate_7590

Only just read through the rest of this thread, gutted to hear it might be fake?!!  :O

But if OP has just left for holiday maybe the reason she isnt updating is because she has no wifi/ shes sleeping/ shes out having fun on holiday?

I dont like to be negative so I hope one of those is the reason


----------



## kate_7590

Debbierobb109 said:


> You can get wifi on delta airlines
> *Dogs can also squeeze themselfs into the most ridiculous of spaces*
> She didn't know the dog was pregnant.....and the holiday was most likely planned in advance......


This is very true. Whenever Simba is scared he will squeeze himself under a tiny little table (out of a nest of tables, for size comparison) I have no idea how he does it, being a 20kg BC but he certainly manages to!


----------



## canuckjill

My lab moved her pup from her whelping box to my shelties crate which is only just big enough for her.....Now granted the lab looked silly in it and her head stuck out but she had her pup in there I had to remove the crate altogether from the house...


----------



## BessieDog

Just lost the whole of my well thought out post.  here goes the second try. 

Here's my opinion for what it's worth. 

1. If OP is a hoaxer and was getting fed up she warned us about her holiday a week ago. She did extra texts from the plane, but none since 

2. Does the resort have no wi Fi? Or is she enjoying her hols too much. Is she spending her time supporting mum from afar. 

I wrote this a lot better last time but:

I don't think we know how old the OP is - certainly still young enough to go on holiday with Dad. I think she is only a bit player. That the dogs are her mum's, and she was genuinely coming on here for advice, but that mum had it under control. If not, why go on holiday? 

I believe there are pups, but that the OP wasn't in the driving seat.


----------



## paddyjulie

BessieDog said:


> Just lost the whole of my well thought out post.  here goes the second try.
> 
> Here's my opinion for what it's worth.
> 
> 1. If OP is a hoaxer and was getting fed up she warned us about her holiday a week ago. She did extra texts from the plane, but none since
> 
> 2. Does the resort have no wi Fi? Or is she enjoying her hols too much. Is she spending her time supporting mum from afar.
> 
> I wrote this a lot better last time but:
> 
> I don't think we know how old the OP is - certainly still young enough to go on holiday with Dad. I think she is only a bit player. That the dogs are her mum's, and she was genuinely coming on here for advice, but that mum had it under control. If not, why go on holiday?
> 
> I believe there are pups, but that the OP wasn't in the driving seat.


The op has a grandchild of 2 and a son of 12 ..if I read it right  in previous threads


----------



## Mummy24

Just ha an update from mum. Turns out blue had a retained placenta so they went to te vets and she had it removed. Mum and puppy's now doing excellently and she's a brilliant mum. I don't think I'm going to come on here anymore and I'm upset as how I've been accused as being a 'fake' am I really that sad?! I came on here for advice when I needed it. Yes blue is my mums dog but she's a family dog so we all love her as equals rather than seeing her as only mums dog


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## Darth

The OP was at college so i would assume over 16...

Not being sole carer for the dog doesn't stop her from answering questions about the litter. 

My breed is smaller than a Labrador but definitely couldn't squeeze under a settee just days away from having pups. 

Then there's getting the time wrong in one of the posts where the dog was "pushing"....it could have been a typo but along with the other things.....

It just all seems a bit suspicious.....


----------



## chichi

paddyjulie said:


> The op has a grandchild of 2 and a son of 12 ..if I read it right  in previous threads


Now Im really confused...I thought she was a young College Student...


----------



## something ridiculous

I thought she had a kid of 2 and a brother of 12 but then she said she's at college so who knows


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## kate_7590

Mummy24 said:


> Just ha an update from mum. Turns out blue had a retained placenta so they went to te vets and she had it removed. Mum and puppy's now doing excellently and she's a brilliant mum. I don't think I'm going to come on here anymore and I'm upset as how I've been accused as being a 'fake' am I really that sad?! I came on here for advice when I needed it. Yes blue is my mums dog but she's a family dog so we all love her as equals rather than seeing her as only mums dog


Please dont be pushed away by this 
There are so many people come on here making up stories so I think some members are a little suspicious of new people, which is to be expected I guess.

How many pups has blue had? What are they like


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks Hun
She's had 5 puppy's. 3 girls 2 boys all doin really well so mum says 
Just to clarify I'm 19 with a 21 month old and a 12 year old brother


----------



## paddyjulie

chichi said:


> Now Im really confused...I thought she was a young College Student...





something ridiculous said:


> I thought she had a kid of 2 and a brother of 12 but then she said she's at college so who knows


Nope ..grandchild of 2 years ..that's how it reads to me anyway


----------



## astro2011

Glad the labour went well  photos of these pups is needed as soon as your back


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## Mummy24

I can't wait to post loads of pictures. I posted one I got of mum and pupp which was born in the vet car park lol will be on the tread somewhere!


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Just ha an update from mum. Turns out blue had a retained placenta so they went to te vets and she had it removed./QUOTE]
> 
> It's less than 24 hours after the whelping... that's a bit soon to know there is a retained placenta. In my experience it's not always noticed til later on, a few days usually. And your mum should have been counting placentas and matching them to pups as they were born, to avoid that.
> Vet's don't 'remove' retained placentas....
> 
> I know you may have got this all garbled second hand from your mum, but we'd still like to know more about the pups...
> 
> You still haven't said what colours they are!


----------



## something ridiculous

paddyjulie said:


> Nope ..grandchild of 2 years ..that's how it reads to me anyway


Just re-read the earlier post and you're right. I'm so confused!


----------



## rona

Mummy24 said:


> I can't wait to post loads of pictures. I posted one I got of mum and pupp which was born in the vet car park lol will be on the tread somewhere!


Glad you are staying. The suspicions are not really a reflection on you , but some of the nasty and idiotic people that have come on here and ruined the trust 

There's a lot of good honest folks on here and they have been hurt by others taking the pee. If you aren't one of the idiots then I'm sure you will get a lot of help and maybe make a friend or two


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## Mummy24

Tbh it's all second hand from my mum so will know more once I get home and can chat properly lol
Mum says that three have come out with blues pink nose and the other 2 have busters black nose


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## yorkielover

ive been reading this post and i can see why some people are questioning things................

ive copied and pasted

08-05-2013, 10:34 AM
Mummy24 
Pet Forums Member

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 227

Re: Omg just realised she's pregnant!
thankyou ive just downloaded and printed that off 
a question, we are currently looking after 2 other dogs meaning we have 4 in total 
how long should the other three be kept away from the bitch once labour has started? should we introduce them to the puppies etc?* We also have a little boy whose 2, my daughters son and my son whose 12.* When should others be allowed to see the bitch?


----------



## yorkielover

unless she was posting as her mum maybe 



yorkielover said:


> ive been reading this post and i can see why some people are questioning things................
> 
> ive copied and pasted
> 
> 08-05-2013, 10:34 AM
> Mummy24
> Pet Forums Member
> 
> Join Date: May 2013
> Posts: 227
> 
> Re: Omg just realised she's pregnant!
> thankyou ive just downloaded and printed that off
> a question, we are currently looking after 2 other dogs meaning we have 4 in total
> how long should the other three be kept away from the bitch once labour has started? should we introduce them to the puppies etc?* We also have a little boy whose 2, my daughters son and my son whose 12.* When should others be allowed to see the bitch?


----------



## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Tbh it's all second hand from my mum so will know more once I get home and can chat properly lol
> Mum says that three have come out with blues pink nose and the other 2 have busters black nose


Noses are noses! What colour are the pups' coats????


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## Mummy24

Yes I was posting as mum 
And they are golden/whitish


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## MerlinsMum

Mummy24 said:


> Yes I was posting as mum
> And they are golden/whitish


Coool! No strange genetic surprises there, then!
(I'm almost disappointed lol)


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## Malmum

I took Kali to the vet for a check over the following day and to get the pups checked and the vet gave her an Oxytocin jab just to make sure all the placenta's had been passed. Perhaps that's what your mum meant. 

It starts contractions again (poor Kali) but its a good way of knowing there isn't anything left behind - so the vet said.


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## Luz

Well glad pups have finally arrived. Been watching with interest as my Abi is now pregnant. We are expecting patter of tiny Ratters end of June. Don't know if I will be able to cope with labour and updating on PF though! And the weighing and the photos? omg!


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## Darth

Luz you'll be fine....we've had first time breeders on here who can post and download pics between pups being born! :yikes:

Personally posting on a forum between births is a little too much for me....I like to make sure pups are warm and suckling straight away and devote my time to them and mum.

An update and pics when everyone is settled should be enough to keep everyone happy.


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## Darth

Mum says that three have come out with blues pink nose and the other 2 have busters black nose [/QUOTE]

All my light coloured puppies are born with pink noses.

Are Goldies and Labs different and born already pigmented and dark?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Labs can darken up as they develop, will try and dig some pics out of Tau's pups later, both yellows looked identical, one darkened up and had the normal black paw pads, nose colour and eye leathers, the other remained pale which is incorrect and referred to as a Dudley. I can't remember 100%, but I'm sure the black and chocolate pups had pink paw pads etc when born which darkened later, although noses were dark (could be wrong there).


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## jo5

MerlinsMum said:


> That's what I was wondering.


Hi I have only been reading this thread not posting but I would like to say that Maisymoomin is a friend of mine and is very involved in her dogs and other animals she is def not a troll and would never be involved in a fake thread she has far too much real work to do to be involved in such nonsense.
Posters post asking for help or to share experiences and members do their best to help we dont always agree with each others opinions it would be boring if we did just wanted to clear that up


----------



## Firedog

Luz said:


> Well glad pups have finally arrived. Been watching with interest as my Abi is now pregnant. We are expecting patter of tiny Ratters end of June. Don't know if I will be able to cope with labour and updating on PF though! And the weighing and the photos? omg!


Wow, they will be amazing too see.


----------



## chichi

jo5 said:


> Hi I have only been reading this thread not posting but I would like to say that Maisymoomin is a friend of mine and is very involved in her dogs and other animals she is def not a troll and would never be involved in a fake thread she has far too much real work to do to be involved in such nonsense.
> Posters post asking for help or to share experiences and members do their best to help we dont always agree with each others opinions it would be boring if we did just wanted to clear that up


Its a shame you dont really know your friend because if MaisyM is not a troll..she is one weird human being. Unfortunately..the posts she made on my Visitor wall were deleted by Admin (I wanted them left so that all could see what Maisymoomin was like) but she insulted another member (vilely I might add) who understandably complained to Admin...only that particular Mod got carried away and deleted EVERYTHING on my wall almost

She suggested this was a fake thread...telling me that I should get a life and stop posting on a fake thread and other mocking comments re this thread.

She clearly isnt the person you think she is so I would not stick your neck out to make her sound a nice person....members dont get 3 red rep bars for nowt.....

A busy decent adult does not make nasty posts to members telling them they are ugly and other immature idiot stuff (she thought she was posting on a members wall who has pics up of herself...I do not so she couldnt even get that right:laugh.

Anyway...just goes to show that lies can only hurt people...because if she was lying about this being a fake thread...she has landed Mummy24 in a dodgy light....nice friend you have there.......


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## Sleeping_Lion

Correct yellow pigmentation for pads



Looked as if they could change for a while, but stayed pale, so incorrect:



The difference between the two just before their eyes opened



Little black pads 



And some chocolate paw pads and nose, this was Lani, the pup that was slightly paler and too chunky for me



And this was Zasa with her mum, she's actually turned out to be more substantial than Lani, and a similar build to her mum overall with some nice little improvements, so it goes to show how hard it can be to tell


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

The two yellow pups at only a few days old


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## Darth

It looks like they are born pink and within a week/10 days they start to darken....

So am I right that yellow pups are born without pigmentation on their noses the same as in my breed?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

I'm pretty sure that's the case, although having had just the one litter I can't go on my own experience, just what I've seen from other litters. I can't remember reading anything specifically stating this is the case. All the pups from Tau's litter had much paler pads and noses when born which turned darker as they grew, if not completely pink.


----------



## Darth

That's the same in my breed, I suppose the OP's 2 puppies with black noses get them from the Golden Retriever side of the breeding? 

Maybe they're born with golden/white coats and black noses.....


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

Seems odd with them being such a closely related breed, that the pigmentation of the nose and paw pads might work in a different way, who knows!!! I haven't a clue whether GR's are born with the darker pigmentation, I can't remember ever seeing a litter of young GR's to be honest.


----------



## something ridiculous

I know nothing about breeding, but a quick google has told me that both labs and GRs are born without pigment!


----------



## Callie

Had a litter of goldens and all pink noses and paws. Turned black after a few weeks.


----------



## Mummy24

Just a quick update guys 
Spoke to mum today who said blues a real natural and a great mum. She hardly leaves the puppy's side haha she pops out for a quick wee and a wander around the garden six times a day and then quickly goes back inside and lays with all her babies. Gosh I just wanna get home and see her!


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## BessieDog

Mummy24 said:


> Just a quick update guys
> Spoke to mum today who said blues a real natural and a great mum. She hardly leaves the puppy's side haha she pops out for a quick wee and a wander around the garden six times a day and then quickly goes back inside and lays with all her babies. Gosh I just wanna get home and see her!


Well we can't wait for your holiday to be over as we want pics!!


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## MerlinsMum

Sounds like she's doing well... I know some girls are so attached to their pups they have to be forced to leave them and taken out on a lead for the usual toilet duties!

Hope she is getting lots of calcium-rich foods and eating well.


----------



## Mummy24

Mum sent me a picture of the puppy's today  
All doing amazing


----------



## we love bsh's

Lovely.

Is that a 6th puppy under mums back leg? Maybe its just my eyes or a tangle of bodies.


----------



## cats galore

we love bsh's said:


> Lovely.
> 
> Is that a 6th puppy under mums back leg? Maybe its just my eyes or a tangle of bodies.


i thought that too but i thought there were only 5 pups


----------



## Mummy24

5 pups  there all tangled up haha


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> 5 pups  there all tangled up haha


Are you using any form of id'ing them like id bands? or can you tell whos who by the sexes and different nose colours?

We use paper id bands.


----------



## something ridiculous

I thought there were 6 too. I also think those pups look fairly large for their age. I really can't work this thread out.


----------



## Amy-manycats

Only counting 5 myself. If you doubt the OP why not just ignore the thread?

OP I hope you had a good holiday and are now taking some of the load of your mum.


----------



## blossom21

I counted 5 too,gorgeous pusters.


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## miti999

something ridiculous said:


> I thought there were 6 too. I also think those pups look fairly large for their age. I really can't work this thread out.


I thought they looked large in newborn pic! Now they look enormous. Hope alls going well !


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## moggiemum

5 big beautiful healthy puppies congrats


----------



## Mummy24

Thanks guys I can't wait to get back and meet them all! I'm not back Untill Monday but I am counting down the days haha mums keeping me informed everyday and says that puppy's and blue are all doing fabulous


----------



## Darth

Oh dear... I was expecting you back on Saturday, guess you extended your vacation by a couple of days from 9 to 11?

I'm looking forward to more pics, but guess I'll just have to wait a little longer than originally planned.


----------



## Mummy24

Another picture


----------



## Mummy24

And yeah we fly back on Sunday but because its a late flight I won't get home Untill Monday as we're staying in a hotel that night


----------



## moggiemum

enjoy the rest of your hols, as u wont be getting a lot of peace when u get home


----------



## Mummy24

hey guys im back home! 
The puppies are gorgeous and blue is such an amazing mummy. I cant believe how small they all are, amazing. She's so funny, when they start squeeking she'll just get up and walk over and lie down and roll over lol


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> hey guys im back home!
> The puppies are gorgeous and blue is such an amazing mummy. I cant believe how small they all are, amazing. She's so funny, when they start squeeking she'll just get up and walk over and lie down and roll over lol


Are you going to spoil us with lots of puppy pics now


----------



## Mummy24

haha of course! ive got to pick up a new USB tomorrow but ill post loads  
i have to ask actually, the puppies keep like jumping in their sleep is this normal? And one keeps squeeking alot more than the others, is this normal? She's feeding okay. Last question lol their eyes havent opened yet, is this normal?


----------



## cinnamontoast

Eyes open around 14 days.


----------



## we love bsh's

cinnamontoast said:


> Eyes open around 14 days.


Really wow with cats its 10,but I have 2 here that have just opened at 3 days.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

we love bsh's said:


> Really wow with cats its 10,but I have 2 here that have just opened at 3 days.


It can be earlier, Tau's pups started opening their eyes about 10-11 days old, some of them were still winking at me at a fortnight though


----------



## MCWillow

No pics yet?? :nonod:

Come on op - we want pics of Blues babies!!


----------



## Calinyx

MCWillow said:


> No pics yet?? :nonod:
> 
> Come on op - we want pics of Blues babies!!


That's what i was looking for too


----------



## we love bsh's

Calinyx said:


> That's what i was looking for too


Me three


----------



## Mummy24

couple pictures


----------



## Sleeping_Lion

They look lovely pups, but you need to get them off that duvet and on some vet bed, that old duvet will be filthy by now and there will be a risk of infection for the pups. Honestly, vet bed is the best stuff, and you can reuse it for your own dogs once the pups have gone to their homes, I've got tonnes of the stuff, always comes in handy


----------



## moggiemum

Mummy24 said:


> couple pictures


ahhhhhhhhdorable


----------



## we love bsh's

Mummy24 said:


> couple pictures


Amazing how fast they grow they'v easy doubled in size since a week ago :eek6:


----------



## sashski

How are the lil pups doing ?
Any more pictures?


----------

