# Suitable housing for rabbits



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I would ask all rabbit owners to please spare a thought for your little friends, and chose your housing carefully.

There are far too many pet shops selling inadequate size hutches, with little or no room for them to turn around, let along stretch their legs. Please also remember that rabbits live in communities and ideally should not live alone. It really is worth that extra few pounds to insure that your bunny is happy and healthy.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

mine is on his own, maybe i should get him a friend,


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## Vixen (Nov 2, 2007)

colliemerles said:


> mine is on his own, maybe i should get him a friend,


a female and male pair are much easier to bond than a male and male. However Id suggest getting them spayed and neutrd unless you want more!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I have to agree with you here - why do pet shops still sell those little cages that are not big enough???


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Vixen said:


> a female and male pair are much easier to bond than a male and male. However Id suggest getting them spayed and neutrd unless you want more!


thank you, i will get him a friend, but yes i will have her done, (dont want to end up with hundreds of them, )


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2007)

colliemerles said:


> thank you, i will get him a friend, but yes i will have her done, (dont want to end up with hundreds of them, )


wise idea lol...


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

yes ,two will be enough,


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2007)

When I bred and showed Rabbits the rule of thumb for hutches was a square foot of space for every pound of weight of Rabbit, so most of the commercially made ones are not even big enough for a 4 pound Dwarf. Most are far too narrow even if they look tall and long enough from the front. The Rabbit shoudl be able to lie fully across the narrowest side.

I used to Have English Rabbits which are 6 to 8 pounds as adults. I had tiered hutches which were 3 feet x 2 feet deep x 18 inches high for the single rabbits, and 4 feet x 3 feet for the females who would sometimes have babies.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I cannot understand why the RSPCA do nothing to stop these tiny hutches being sold!

In my line of work, it is so frustrating to see rabbits suffering like this, and some hardly see the light of day! 

Great to see such positive comments.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a two tier cage for my rabbit which was about £100, but at prices people can afford, they're going to go after the single teir and have a large run for the rabbits in the garden or allowing the rabbit to stretch its legs inside the house. Some I've seen, that are big enough for about 4 rabbits can come to over £200, theres no way someone should have to pay for a hutch at that price where they get damp and rotten outside. I've had to replace hutches that have become damp and rotten (not just because of rain but because of the mess they leave, it soaks into the wood and theres no way you can get it out) and they've only been about £30 to replace in the past.

My rabbit also is extremely used to being on his own, he has been for 5 yrs, he's a grumpy rabbit and hates anyone going into his hutch so a friend, thats a huge "no no" lol, though it would be lovely to see him with a friend, I was tempted to get a female for him possibly to help him calm down, the cage is big enough, he's been done, but I wouldn't be able to buy a new hutch just like that if things went wrong. Nice thought but not for my bunny


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

cavy_gal said:


> I have a two tier cage for my rabbit which was about £100, but at prices people can afford, they're going to go after the single teir and have a large run for the rabbits in the garden or allowing the rabbit to stretch its legs inside the house. Some I've seen, that are big enough for about 4 rabbits can come to over £200, theres no way someone should have to pay for a hutch at that price where they get damp and rotten outside. I've had to replace hutches that have become damp and rotten (not just because of rain but because of the mess they leave, it soaks into the wood and theres no way you can get it out) and they've only been about £30 to replace in the past.
> 
> My rabbit also is extremely used to being on his own, he has been for 5 yrs, he's a grumpy rabbit and hates anyone going into his hutch so a friend, thats a huge "no no" lol, though it would be lovely to see him with a friend, I was tempted to get a female for him possibly to help him calm down, the cage is big enough, he's been done, but I wouldn't be able to buy a new hutch just like that if things went wrong. Nice thought but not for my bunny


There is no need to have a problem with rotting hutches. When you get them you should buy a tin of bitumen paint, the kind of paint metal drainpipes used to be painted with. This is waterproof and will prevent any wet penetrating the floor or walls.

It doesn't smell and dries to a gloss finish which soon matts down, or can be sanded a little to take of the shine. A couple of coats on the floors and about 6 inches up the sides will do the trick.

Also few hutches have enough roof overhang to protect the sides from weather, so either roofing them over with a larger felted roof, or keeping them in a shed or constructing a car port/pergola type structure under which they can be sited will protect them and also have the advantage of airflow which can be a problem in sheds in the summer.

If enough woodshavings are used to be honest hutches should nver be wet.

Most bunnies use one corner of their hutch for weeing so you can clean this corner every other day and shift the rest of the dry shavings to this area and top up, with a full clean out once a week.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I know that you can treat a hutch, but you must be extremely careful that nothing is toxic to your rabbit. 

I agree that large hutches can be very expensive, but people should budget for this before buying rabbits. In my line of work, you really do come across such unsuitable living arrangements for animals, and my advice was really to be taken as a whole. Of course their are grumpy rabbits that find company a good excuse to vent their anger, but on the whole it should be remembered that they are community animals, and living alone is really not an ideal solution.

I am sure that the majority of people, will do their research and costings before buying a pet, also taking into account the cost of veterinary fees, food and arrangements for when you are away. The expense of owning a pet can really add to your household budget, so please consider this before buying, not to mention the time and cleaning out etc.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

I really think its a bad idea to use any type of chemicals on or around an animals home unless it was strictly made for the animal itself. We could move the hutch out of the rain into th utility room but my dad would never agree to that and besides, it'd upset his body temperature being indoors. We have a garage but its full of stuff I really wouldn't trust around an animal.

And to Nina, I disagree entirely. If a rabbit and guinea-pig living together is frowned upon by so-called "experts" because a guinea-pig can be kicked and injured, then surely another rabbit can be kicked and ingured by another rabbit?? My dog is even terrified of my rabbit, he's beaten him across the nose and my dog ran off with my rabbit chasing him. He's not what you'd call a "happy bunny" lol, he's arrogant and stuck up and very territorial so I wouldn't wanna put another rabbits life in danger with him. I don't believe rabbits make very good pets anyway, but it all depends on the rabbit itself.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Unsure exactly what you are disagreeing with!

It is a fact that rabbits live in communities, and in general would prefer company. 

I have seen a rabbit and g. pig living quite happily together, but again as a rule of thumb, it does not make for an ideal relationship. I have known several cases throughout my working life where g. pigs have been severely injured by rabbits, and can only speak as I find.

You state that rabbits do not make good pets! Strange comment to make since they are the third most popular pet with an estimated 1.5 million in this country today, and make an ideal pet for young children.

Rabbits do not fair well in cold draughty conditions, and rely on their owners to provide the correct living conditions. They much prefer the shelter of a garage in Winter, to the extreme cold outside.

I totally agree however, with your comments regarding cleaning products for hutches, so at least we do have a little common ground here.


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## jo-ann (Nov 2, 2007)

i think that all rabbits should have a very larg cage and some were to run i have 3 giants and 3 lionheads


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## AnimalLoversWeb (Jan 5, 2008)

This is a run rather than a hutch but if you have some other form of covering it is a very spacious area for rabbits (or other small animals):










We keep our rabbits in an unused stable so lack of a roof is not a problem, they are male and unfortunately despite neutering will not get along and we wanted them to have the maximum space that we could.

So we need 3 separate housings and the above run is massive. 6 foot long, 4 foot wide and 2 foot high! We found that the height was the main area that the large retail outlets were ignoring as a rabbit needs room to stand tall comfortably occasionally. 
We got 3 of these for £45 each from a supplier on ebay and think they are fantastic. This is cheaper than much smaller and poorer quality runs in the retail outlets.
Our rabbits also get rotated to an outdoor dog run for access to fresh grass daily as well.


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## Leanne1989 (Nov 11, 2007)

House bunnies are great!! I have 2 of my netherlands inside and they are so sweet. they use there litter tray and never chew at all. I brought a ppuppy pen for them to go in while im out and at night it cost £45 and is really big! I hate the fact the RSPCA arn't doing anything at all to stop these tiny hutches...i saw a hutch the other day not big enough for a mouse!!


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## IzzyTwig (Jan 18, 2008)

I've resorted to building my own hutches, cages and runs because pet shop one are either too small or incredibly expensive. I get quite upset when I see people buying a cage only just suitable for a guinnea pig to keep 2 rabbits in 
The problem is not the pet shops selling small cages but the lack of education out there telling people that rabbits need a lot of space. So as people buy the small ones and not the big ones the pet shops will stock more small ones as they're better sellers.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Lots of people are now resorting to building their own hutches. Not only this, I have clients that erect amazing chicken houses. If people have the time to do this themselves, it puts a stop to these unscrupulous people who sell such small hutches.


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## -ange- (Dec 12, 2007)

I do agree the hutches in some shops are way to small, but them you look at the ones that are the right size and then you look at the price!! They can be way to pricey. And sadly people pay it coz they want the best for their bunny.

I have mine made to order and they are far better than the shop ones, and not pricey at all for the work that goes into them. 

I have 14 rabbits, but not all are in pairs. Some just don't like sharing their hutch with anyone, but love playing in a run with company. And then I have 2 bucks that will kill any of the other bucks if they get in their way!! But are the sweetest things on their own.
So not all rabbits can be in with other rabbits, guinea pigs are good for keeping them company but I would only do that if the rabbit is small like a Netherland Dwarf or a mini lop. I have pigs in with a netherland dwarf - I'm sure he thinks he'sa pig too!!!


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Unsure exactly what you are disagreeing with!
> 
> It is a fact that rabbits live in communities, and in general would prefer company.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what I was disagreeing on either to be honest 

So be it, they may live better with a group or at least one other rabbit but try telling my rabbit that. He's the worst pet I've ever owned. I'm scared of him, seriously I am, I know how stupid that sounds but I can't feel confident around him until I have to cut his claws and clean around his bottom and tail, because I can have him on his back and he's relaxed. And meh, Clymo's lived outside for almost 6 yrs and has never been in a garage or shed or even sheltered round the side of the house, he's always been at the side of fence near the patio door. They have fur coats to keep them warm, plus if fed enough hay, fruits and veg and their dry mix, and have plenty of bedding to cuddle up in, they'll be perfectly fine.

Hmmmm... I've had family friends getting rabbits for their children, only for the child to become bored and neglect the rabbit because they've been bitten or scratched or kicked while trying to hold them correctly. You see, some children are all "fingers and thumbs" when it comes to animals and with rabbits being very flighty, well, I wouldn't be eagerly suggesting a rabbit as a pet for a child. It's not ideal in my eyes. I wasn't even really a child when I got Clymo, but something about rabbits just tells me they're not good pets if you think that a child will be all over the rabbit, pulling at it, poking it, wanting to hold it and cuddle it and rabbits just don't like being held and cuddled. Sorry, just info I've picked up and experience I've had growing up...


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## -ange- (Dec 12, 2007)

cavy_gal said:


> I'm not sure what I was disagreeing on either to be honest
> 
> So be it, they may live better with a group or at least one other rabbit but try telling my rabbit that. He's the worst pet I've ever owned. I'm scared of him, seriously I am, I know how stupid that sounds but I can't feel confident around him until I have to cut his claws and clean around his bottom and tail, because I can have him on his back and he's relaxed. And meh, Clymo's lived outside for almost 6 yrs and has never been in a garage or shed or even sheltered round the side of the house, he's always been at the side of fence near the patio door. They have fur coats to keep them warm, plus if fed enough hay, fruits and veg and their dry mix, and have plenty of bedding to cuddle up in, they'll be perfectly fine.
> 
> Hmmmm... I've had family friends getting rabbits for their children, only for the child to become bored and neglect the rabbit because they've been bitten or scratched or kicked while trying to hold them correctly. You see, some children are all "fingers and thumbs" when it comes to animals and with rabbits being very flighty, well, I wouldn't be eagerly suggesting a rabbit as a pet for a child. It's not ideal in my eyes. I wasn't even really a child when I got Clymo, but something about rabbits just tells me they're not good pets if you think that a child will be all over the rabbit, pulling at it, poking it, wanting to hold it and cuddle it and rabbits just don't like being held and cuddled. Sorry, just info I've picked up and experience I've had growing up...


The thing is with rabbits is that they are as scared as you as you are of them! They can sense it like all animals.
And as for good pets for children, no some breeds are not good child friendly pets as they are far to big. I have mini lops and netherland dwarfs mainly and they are small and the nethies are so child friendly my 2 year old can pick them up.

The thing is with rabbits no one ever picks up a rabbit the right way - and so they won't like being cuddles or handled. And it all takes time and trust to do it properly.

As a parent I know which of my children would get bored with any of our pets and so she doesn't have a pet, and never asked about any of them or wants to help with them, and she is 6! As for my other 3 children they just couldn't do enough for the animals. 
Ok they are not perfect and do forget something some times but hey they're kids! That's life. A hint in the right direction and a helping hand from me and it's done. And no shouting or tears.

It is sad to know you are frightened of your rabbit. I do have 1 that the kids have to be aware of but he's good 70% of the time. I am in to showing and breeding and I won't be breeding from him due to his temperment. I only breed from the good temperment ones, no matter how good his coat and body is.
Who ever breed your rabbit didn't think about temperment when they breed the parents, sadly.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

-ange- said:


> The thing is with rabbits is that they are as scared as you as you are of them! They can sense it like all animals.
> And as for good pets for children, no some breeds are not good child friendly pets as they are far to big. I have mini lops and netherland dwarfs mainly and they are small and the nethies are so child friendly my 2 year old can pick them up.
> 
> The thing is with rabbits no one ever picks up a rabbit the right way - and so they won't like being cuddles or handled. And it all takes time and trust to do it properly.
> ...


My rabbit is a ND mix with something I think a little bigger because he's slightly bigger than a ND, but has most features of one, so he's pretty easy to hold, when he doesn't thump me in the chest/tummy area when held and doesn't try to dart over my shoulder. I'm not overly scared of him, I get more frustrated than scared. It's just I'm worried he'll really hurt me or really hurt himself whilst showing off.

Well, I know rabbits aren't fond of being cuddled, its not something I do very often with my little one, just depends on what his mood is when I go see him. Since I got him in 2002, I think I only properly liked him the first 6 months, and would cuddle him a lot. Shame really, you'd look at him and melt inside, he's so adorable to look at, which is hard because I don't like getting angry about the way he acts sometimes. I lose my temper and shout at him, I know he doesn't understand, but then I look at him and end up crying because he's so so cute, he's just a little brat to me all the time.

I don't believe who their parents are would alter their temperament. I got my rabbit from a Pet Centre at my local garden centre. Not sure who breeds them but I would imagine its one of the staff members there, considering the excellent reputation they have, they wouldn't delve into dodgey back-alley breeding with their animals there. Although, like I said, I was able to hold him and cuddle him for a while, then he turned gradually.

I want to adopt a female to let him have at least some sort of companionship with another being, because at the moment, he has virtually none and its not fair to begrudge him a companion and begrudge him being a happy rabbit. I have the time to introduce them, the space if it fails and the love for my rabbit to do the best for him and also help out another little one that needs a home. I wouldn't be doing it out of ignorance thinking he'll be friends with any rabbit, I know the risks that would lie ahead if I thought that way. Luckily, the little guy has a two tier hutch, all I'd need to do is fasten the ramp on the ceiling of the bottom tier (it has a handy locking system fitted in) and if the two don't get alone (i.e. my rabbit doesn't wish to have a girlfriend lol) then they can have a tier each until I can accomodate the female properly with her own hutch. My dad isn't 100% keen on any of my pets apart from the dog, so getting him to agree to another animal would be hard. I'm looking for females at rescues but travel would be difficult as I don't drive and don't have support from my dad, so getting a female from the centre I got my guy from is the only option I have, which is a real shame because I'd rather rescue, sod's law really.

Also, sorry for the rambling and rather large post


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## -ange- (Dec 12, 2007)

cavy_gal said:


> My rabbit is a ND mix with something I think a little bigger because he's slightly bigger than a ND, but has most features of one, so he's pretty easy to hold, when he doesn't thump me in the chest/tummy area when held and doesn't try to dart over my shoulder. I'm not overly scared of him, I get more frustrated than scared. It's just I'm worried he'll really hurt me or really hurt himself whilst showing off.
> 
> Well, I know rabbits aren't fond of being cuddled, its not something I do very often with my little one, just depends on what his mood is when I go see him. Since I got him in 2002, I think I only properly liked him the first 6 months, and would cuddle him a lot. Shame really, you'd look at him and melt inside, he's so adorable to look at, which is hard because I don't like getting angry about the way he acts sometimes. I lose my temper and shout at him, I know he doesn't understand, but then I look at him and end up crying because he's so so cute, he's just a little brat to me all the time.
> 
> ...


Just a little tip when you hold your rabbit -

If he does try the jump over your shoulder or thump your chest, put your hand over his eyes! Works everytime here, it calms them down. Give it a try.

If you plan on getting a girlfriend for him, then get him neutered now and then wait you may find that he calms down to how he used to be and then you won't have to get him a girlfriend as you will spend more time with him. And well it would keep your dad happy too, not having another pet.

The first 6 months he was a baby and he changed because he matured. 1 of my bucks was like that and he's going to be neutered soon.

Glad you want the best for your rabbit.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

-ange- said:


> Just a little tip when you hold your rabbit -
> 
> If he does try the jump over your shoulder or thump your chest, put your hand over his eyes! Works everytime here, it calms them down. Give it a try.
> 
> ...


Oh, if I need to move him, I hold him with his back against my chest and hold his paws with my hands. Its a lot safer to carry a rabbit that way, for both the rabbit and yourself.

He's already been neutured. He was becoming aggressive and when in the vets getting his first yearly jab for Myxomatosis as a little'n, the vet advised getting him done would curb any aggression he seemed to have developed. That wasn't 100% successful because he has not changed what-so-ever and even moodier.

Getting a female sounds really selfish on my behalf because I would be putting her through something she'd not understand and my rabbit would be upset over it with some new "li'l miss" in his way lol. He can't even be in the same room as my dog without chasing him or teasing him and my dog is a medium sized terrier and you'd think a rabbit would be an easy kill for him... 

It's quite sad that he can't physically tell me what would benefit him. If I left him well alone, he won't get used to me HAVING to interact with him somehow. Its just tiring and frustrating and I'm out of ideas.


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## -ange- (Dec 12, 2007)

cavy_gal said:


> Oh, if I need to move him, I hold him with his back against my chest and hold his paws with my hands. Its a lot safer to carry a rabbit that way, for both the rabbit and yourself.
> 
> He's already been neutured. He was becoming aggressive and when in the vets getting his first yearly jab for Myxomatosis as a little'n, the vet advised getting him done would curb any aggression he seemed to have developed. That wasn't 100% successful because he has not changed what-so-ever and even moodier.
> 
> ...


I really don't know what to say unless you get him loads of toys to keep him busy.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

He has toys too.... lol


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## -ange- (Dec 12, 2007)

cavy_gal said:


> He has toys too.... lol


Well I think you are just going to have to face it and live with a grumpy bunny. We all have 1 at some point that we just can't help.


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

I know, he's been this way for 5 yrs so I'm used to it now


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

cavy_gal said:


> I know, he's been this way for 5 yrs so I'm used to it now


hello chavy_gal ! i thought you just let them live inside your house running wild and pis*ing And Sh*ting everwhere


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

My pets who SHOULD be caged, are caged, thank you very much. If they're running about the house (which is always supervised), and make a mess, I use a product called "Keep It Clean" which removes bad smell and disinfects the mess. Any other problems you want to take up with me, keep it in a PM or keep it to yourself.

Also, my user name is CAVY_gal! There is NO "H" in my user name! Stop trying to get a reaction from me because I'm fed up to the back bloody teeth of people trying my patience in my family and where I live, I do not wish to get the same from people who are cowards, throwing their voices behind a computer!


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

I built my own hutch and run at our old house for our rabbit bailey because I just dont think the ones for sale are anywhere near big enough. We only had a smallish garden and he got quarter of the garden and half my shed to live in. I'm going to start building him a new home for the summer soon but he's inside at the moment, we have the biggest indoor cage we could find but again I dont think its big enough so he goes outside most of the day and just comes in when it gets cold and dark! 

In reply to Nina's comments some time ago about the RSPCA not doing anything it doesn't surprise me at all. The only word for the RSPCA is useless. The Animal Shelter at Chesterfield had 7-8 bunnies in a run about 1 metre by 1 metre the last time we were there.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Sadly I think the RSPCA are somewhat tied by legislation, but they could and should do more.

It appears that animal cruelty is alive and well, so it is up to us as caring people to report it. 

I am constantly walking past pet shops to see these tiny hutches on sale, some of which are outside of large well known pet superstores. While they remain legal, manufacturers will still make them, and people will still buy them.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

garryd said:


> hello chavy_gal ! i thought you just let them live inside your house running wild and pis*ing And Sh*ting everwhere


Just seen this.......


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## swinnk8 (Feb 10, 2008)

I have recued quite a few rabbits and guinea pigs from poor petshop conditions. I was a pet care consultant/supervisor. I am certified in pet care management under the Pet Care Trust in Bedfordshire, and never let any rabbit or any other pet under my care, live in the conditions that i have seen in the UK.
The rabbits that i have rescued have mainly had teeth and diet problems as well as living in filthy conditions and cramped up in cages where they can only just about hop to the other side. I could never do that to my animals. When i was in a house with a garden, my rabbits lived in 6x4 ft sheds. The continental giant had a whole shed with the newzealand white friend with a ramp that i built in. They had no hutch. They also had the run of the garden daily when i was there and would run in and out the house. All the rabbits and guinea pigs had their turns to run around the whole garden and were trained to go back into the sheds at bedtime/meal times.

It is about time the RSPCA practiced what they preached. They could do a hell of a lot better.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I have been emailing round some of the online pet shops and had quiet a mixed response, some say they are having problems sourcing good quality hutches that meet rspca standards and other are just rude and ignorant. a little positivity has been great tho made me feel like I wasnt wasting my time


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