# Chausie?



## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

Can somone tell me if they know of anyone in the UK breeding Chausie cats?... I've had bengals before, and I'm interested if there are other similar options.... anyone have any experience with behavioral and health needs, or other suggestions?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

Mabe somone has an idea why they are so hard to find in the UK?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The Chausie is a domestic x jungle cat hybrid.
Not many people would own a jungle cat in the UK. DWA licence needed I would have thought.



> I've had bengals before,


What happened to them?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> The Chausie is a domestic x jungle cat hybrid.
> Not many people would own a jungle cat in the UK. DWA licence needed I would have thought.


Technically the same is true of Bengals, the Bengal being a domestic x Asian Leopard cat hybrid.... I'm interested to know how the Bengals and Chausie differ, since both are popular in the US.



> What happened to them?


My family has owned bengals for 15 years... but my parents have moved to another part of the country, and my own cat has died of cancer a little over a year ago, aged 19.

I have recently given a home to a bengal kitten with a heart problem, and I've been told he may not live more than a year or two (see my other post with audio recording!) so I have considered a second cat at some point.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think most are well aware of the origin of the Bengal, however the Bengal has been here for a long time and there is no need to use foundations in most breeding programs.
I personally don't know and haven't heard of any one breeding Chausie's in the UK, nor indeed anyone owning one but I could be wrong.

I also don't see many breeders of Chausies even in the States, some listed as Chausie breeders appear not to breed them any more or their sites are defunct.
Sad to hear of your little kittens heart problem, what is his diagnosis?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> I think most are well aware of the origin of the Bengal, however the Bengal has been here for a long time and there is no need to use foundations in most breeding programs.
> I personally don't know and haven't heard of any one breeding Chausie's in the UK, nor indeed anyone owning one but I could be wrong.
> 
> I also don't see many breeders of Chausies even in the States, some listed as Chausie breeders appear not to breed them any more or their sites are defunct.
> Sad to hear of your little kittens heart problem, what is his diagnosis?


I think Bengals have been around as a breed around 20 years, I don't know about Chausie, just seemed interesting... 

I don't know much about the little boy's heart as yet, he's got an incredibly loud murmur, infact I posted a recording in another thread. It's so obvious you can feel it, you don't even need ears, let alone a stethoscope.. his heart rate is normal though, and he doesn't seem to have any issues, apart from being really small for his age.

I need to wait until he's a little bigger to get an ultrasound exam, but I don't know what, if anything can be done anyway.

If anyone who has any experience with this sort of thing could comment or listen to the recording I'd appreciate it.

http://www.fsck.co.uk/Heart_20090827.wma


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## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

Looking at pictures of the Chausies (indeed can't find a single UK breeder) they remind me a bit of abyssinians in that they both look like mini cougars  Have you considered one of those as from the looks a Chausie won't be happening?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

Hmm... I really don't know what I'll decide in the long term, it's not the look of the cats particularly, although I do like the body type of the bengal (and most moggies), more a classic cat than many pedigree breeds...

I would have a rescue kitten I think, except for the fact that various pedigree breeds offer cats with a relatively known temperament... I have enjoyed Bengals for their playful nature, but also for their almost dog like loyalty. They are also robust and travel well, mine would think nothing of being taken to the vet on a bus... or visiting relatives, they come with me rather than spend time in a cattery and they seem to prefer it that way.

I think there is nothing to do but wait and see what happens with this sweet little man!.. I really hope he remains well, although the vet isn't confident.

Picasa Web Albums - James - Cats


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Can the cardiologist not scan your cat earlier? as it is such a loud murmur it is hardly likely to be a physiological murmur so will not disappear at 6 months-1 year as some murmurs do, so I am unclear as why they want to wait.

If he has something that can be treated then I would think better start treatment sooner rather than later, that would be my feelings.

Such a shame for him, lovely little chap


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> Can the cardiologist not scan your cat earlier? as it is such a loud murmur it is hardly likely to be a physiological murmur so will not disappear at 6 months-1 year as some murmurs do, so I am unclear as why they want to wait.
> 
> If he has something that can be treated then I would think better start treatment sooner rather than later, that would be my feelings.
> 
> Such a shame for him, lovely little chap


I have been given the impression that the scan would be more for my benefit in judging his probable life expectancy rather than making any meaningful difference to available treatments. Perhaps you can tell me that there's something else I should discuss with the vet?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

I'm a bit hesitant to re-awaken this thread, but I noticed that people are still reading it and downloading the audio file of my wonderful Gizmo's heart... unfortunately I don't have any good news... but suffice to say, he had a great life, even if it was very short.

I now have a Savannah, which has been an interesting experience, and she is about as healthy as a cat can be.... I think the neigbourhood cats must be somewhat overwhelmed to see her wandering around the gardens.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Poor Gizmo--he was adorable. I'm glad he had love and care in his short life and that you have found a new kitty to fill the hole in your heart he left behind.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

blueadept said:


> I'm a bit hesitant to re-awaken this thread, but I noticed that people are still reading it and downloading the audio file of my wonderful Gizmo's heart... unfortunately I don't have any good news... but suffice to say, he had a great life, even if it was very short.
> 
> I now have a Savannah, which has been an interesting experience, and she is about as healthy as a cat can be.... I think the neigbourhood cats must be somewhat overwhelmed to see her wandering around the gardens.


Im pleased you found a new friend,do you mean you allow your savannah to free roam?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

I do let her 'roam free' of that's how you want to phrase it! Being female she is small enough to pass as a large 'regular' domestic cat. Ive seen that in the US there might be risk of theft, predators etc. but I can't see that happening here. My families casts have always been allowed outside, some living into their 20's.

I'd love to hear peoples opinions on that but it works for me.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

blueadept said:


> I do let her 'roam free' of that's how you want to phrase it! Being female she is small enough to pass as a large 'regular' domestic cat. Ive seen that in the US there might be risk of theft, predators etc. but I can't see that happening here. My families casts have always been allowed outside, some living into their 20's.
> 
> I'd love to hear peoples opinions on that but it works for me.


Are you in uk op?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Don't think I would be letting a Savannah roam free - just looked it up - A Savannah cat is a cross between a domestic cat and the serval, a medium-sized, large-eared wild African cat. (from Wiki) 

Apart from the dangers to wildlife with this predator in it's midst - have you seen the price of kittens? Rehomes from £500 (i.e. not kittens) and kittens from £1K upwards to £3500! 

Theft would really worry me.

What 'F' number is your cat, OP? F1, F2, F3, F4? It would make a difference.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Why do you think what happens in the US wouldnt ha[ppen here? it can and does, i wouldnt be letting a Savannah or any other cat pedigree or not free roam these days, but especially a high breed and unusual cat


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Are you in uk op?


Yes, in the UK.


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

spid said:


> Don't think I would be letting a Savannah roam free - just looked it up - A Savannah cat is a cross between a domestic cat and the serval, a medium-sized, large-eared wild African cat. (from Wiki)
> 
> Apart from the dangers to wildlife with this predator in it's midst - have you seen the price of kittens? Rehomes from £500 (i.e. not kittens) and kittens from £1K upwards to £3500!
> 
> ...


I am well aware of what a Savannah is, my family have owned 5 Bengals over the last 25 years as well as a Maine Coon and various moggies... She is F3.

Bengals, Lazlo&Gizmo





Savannah, Electra
Electra - YouTube

If you are paying more than £5-600 for a kitten you are at the wrong breeder, or you want a wild animal... IMO.

Theft doesn't worry me, but she does mostly go out at night.... Probably a couple of trips of 1-2 hours each day... Never locked out tho.

Cats are very active animals, and with the exception of some more delicate breeds I think it's very good for their heath and welfare to have access to the outside.... And I think that's why I have had a number of cats live beyond 20 years. My biggest concern is roads, but there is plenty of space available.

As for the wildlife, in my experience Savannahs are /hopeless/ at hunting wildlife compared to bengals and moggies, which have been about the same.... She did have to learn to avoid foxes tho!

James


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

blueadept said:


> I am well aware of what a Savannah is, my family have owned 5 Bengals over the last 25 years as well as a Maine Coon and various moggies... She is F3.
> 
> Bengals, Lazlo&Gizmo
> 
> ...


I wasn't saying you didn't know what a savannah was!  I was putting out there so other people would know - I assumed you knew hence the fact I asked what F she was!

Your choice - but all my kittens go on an indoor only contract. You obviously live in a nice area - as did my mum and dad but it seemed that their cats constantly got knocked down anyway - I think they had about 3 sets of pairs of cats that died before they were a year old in quick succession. And when we lived in the wilds and had a cat disappear into the woods, she was finally knocked over by a land rover on a dirt track. There is always a risk. But if you are prepared to take that :thumbsup:


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> Why do you think what happens in the US wouldnt ha[ppen here? it can and does, i wouldnt be letting a Savannah or any other cat pedigree or not free roam these days, but especially a high breed and unusual cat


Here's the main things that happen in the US that generally don't happen here, and which I think make a big difference...

1) Exotic cats like Savannahs and Bengals are not hyped up in the same way, so there is less demand, and most people don't know what they are... and those that do generally know a lot more about them.

2) There is far less profit involved, a great number of UK breeders are just enthusiasts with time on their hands and they cover costs, but not much more... so kittens tend to be cheaper, and hence less worth stealing. I payed £400 for Electra, a 13 week old intact female kitten who's buyer was going to breed from her, but pulled out at the last minute... only with an agreement that she would be neutered.

3) Unfortunately in the US there are some organisations who mis-represent Savannah's as dangerous wild animals which should not be kept as pets... even putting out videos to back this up with animal control in body armour capturing someone's pet with a 15' loop pole, practically killing it in the process and then wondering why it was upset. 
Organisations which do do good work protecting genuinely wild animals told me so many... lies, about Savannahs while I was looking into getting one it was completely incredible...

Gizmo - Bengal
http://ubuntuone.com/3UuIiy4RW22jPBH7BVIjDR

Electra - Savannah (12 weeks old)
http://ubuntuone.com/1THRYbBYt4zM9TiD7ZJ6XN (You just wait until I grow into these ears!)

James


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

spid said:


> I wasn't saying you didn't know what a savannah was!  I was putting out there so other people would know - I assumed you knew hence the fact I asked what F she was!


 sorry, just dashed out an answer on the tablet while commuting... didn't mean anything by it.


> Your choice - but all my kittens go on an indoor only contract. You obviously live in a nice area - as did my mum and dad but it seemed that their cats constantly got knocked down anyway.
> 
> - I think they had about 3 sets of pairs of cats that died before they were a year old in quick succession. And when we lived in the wilds and had a cat disappear into the woods, she was finally knocked over by a land rover on a dirt track. There is always a risk. But if you are prepared to take that :thumbsup:


Cats can be hit by cars... this is no doubt a fact, but I have lost 3 cats over the last 30 years... only one of which was to a car, the others were congenital heart problems... I think on balance it's a risk worth taking, the cats are happier, in my opinion... and certainly healthier, I would have to control Electra's diet if I did not let her outside.

Ironically, the breeder I got Electra from was more worried about the railway line which is directly behind my house than the road which is infront of it... but I can't imagine a cat being hit by a train, and to my knowledge no one in my area has reported this happening.

James


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

blueadept said:


> Here's the main things that happen in the US that generally don't happen here, and which I think make a big difference...
> 
> 1) Exotic cats like Savannahs and Bengals are not hyped up in the same way, so there is less demand, and most people don't know what they are... and those that do generally know a lot more about them.
> 
> ...


£400 you paid for electra? ..that is really cheap imo..i dont even think a decent bengal from a reputable breeder goes that cheap.Im not saying you didnt pay that btw but iv not seen savanah kits priced that low.There is actually a breeder 20 mins from me lovely cats though but really i wouldnt let one free roam.

Your cats paws are huge!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

blueadept said:


> Electra - Savannah (12 weeks old)
> http://ubuntuone.com/1THRYbBYt4zM9TiD7ZJ6XN (You just wait until I grow into these ears!)


How many generations away from the Serval is she?

Feel free to whap me with a hammer if she's the genuine article.... but not too many years ago, people were crossing Bengals with Siamese and calling them Savannahs.


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> £400 you paid for electra? ..that is really cheap imo..i dont even think a decent bengal from a reputable breeder goes that cheap.Im not saying you didnt pay that btw but iv not seen savanah kits priced that low.There is actually a breeder 20 mins from me lovely cats though but really i wouldnt let one free roam.
> 
> Your cats paws are huge!


I don't know if the breeder I got Electra from advertises, but it was not a large affair, so I won't publicise it here, but my Bengals came from here, the photograph is my first Bengal, the earlier ones being owned by my parents.

Brown Marbled Bengal Past Champion Puddywat

I don't recall exactly what I paid for him, but it wasn't more than £500...


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> How many generations away from the Serval is she?
> 
> Feel free to whap me with a hammer if she's the genuine article.... but not too many years ago, people were crossing Bengals with Siamese and calling them Savannahs.


Well, I met the parents... and petted the obviously enormous Savannah stud... I have the pedigree paperwork, and her ears show the Serval "eye" patern, although relatively faintly. And you can see the kitten photo above with the obviously enormous ears and long legged appearance of a Savannah... I'm happy enough that she is genuine.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She looks somewhat like an Oriental kitten in the photo.


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> She looks somewhat like an Oriental kitten in the photo.


Yes, it's quite surprising how much more defined her markings are now as seen in the video, than in the kitten photos... of course Bengal kittens also have a "fuzzy" stage where their markings fade around that age, before coming back later.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I was refering to her shape not her pattern which isn't shown well in the photo.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

blueadept said:


> her ears show the Serval "eye" patern, although relatively faintly.


So do my cats and kittens 

Do you have any more photos of her?


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

spotty cats said:


> So do my cats and kittens
> 
> Do you have any more photos of her?


http://ubuntuone.com/7gYGejXClhnNWf1pwyuqZs


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

blueadept said:


> http://ubuntuone.com/7gYGejXClhnNWf1pwyuqZs


The same kitten?
She's grown in a few days! :confused1:


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> The same kitten?
> She's grown in a few days! :confused1:


Take a look at page 2 of the thread, there is also a video of her grown too.... I posted the kitten photo because it shows the big ears and long legs very well, not because she is currently a kitten, she is about 2 years now.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

Two chausies are currently on their way to the UK - they are being imported to found the breed here - can't wait to see them out at TICA shows!


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

Soupie said:


> Two chausies are currently on their way to the UK - they are being imported to found the breed here - can't wait to see them out at TICA shows!


Great to see more breeds coming to the UK, I hope more will follow as 2 cats does not seem to be enough to genetic diversity, and as discussed above, I have recently lost 2 Bengal kittens due to congenital heart problems which have been a problem in Bengals probably for a similar reason.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm quite sure more will follow but everyone has to start somewhere - two unrelated cats is a good start 

The breeder is an experienced and ethical breeder - the breed will be in safe hands.

Sorry you lost your Bengal .... I have to ask if you bought from a breeder who is testing and scanning. Those I consider to be the 'best' Bengal breeders in the UK test and scan and as a result breed happy healthy cats.


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

Soupie said:


> I'm quite sure more will follow but everyone has to start somewhere - two unrelated cats is a good start
> 
> The breeder is an experienced and ethical breeder - the breed will be in safe hands.
> 
> Sorry you lost your Bengal .... I have to ask if you bought from a breeder who is testing and scanning. Those I consider to be the 'best' Bengal breeders in the UK test and scan and as a result breed happy healthy cats.


I still believe that the breeder actually lied to me about that, and the health of the kitten since the problem was immediately apparent as soon as I took the kitten to be checked out, but since it was a small husband/wife setup which was closing down due to the arrival of a baby I looked at the possible outcomes and decided that when I weighed my chances of getting a good outcome vs the fate of the kitten in that situation, I decided to put it down to experience... at least safe in the knowledge that they were not going to continue to breed cats... and I gave the cat a good home for the whole of it's rather short life.

I know that bengals are now generally always scanned for HCM before being allowed to breed, and I could probably hear any serious heart problem in a kitten myself without the need for a vet... but also, I would recommend to anyone to check out a breeder quite carefully, perhaps get a recommendation etc. before taking a kitten.

Actually, from what I have learned... due to the somewhat questionable breeding practices of some of the US based Savannah breeding operations... the gene pool in Savannah's is very varied and certainly when I got mine there were no known tendencies to genetic health problems in the breed. I hope the same can be achieved with the Chausie.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

blueadept said:


> <snip>
> I know that bengals are now generally always scanned for HCM before being allowed to breed, and I could probably hear any serious heart problem in a kitten myself without the need for a vet...
> <snip>


Yes you might hear a murmer in a kitten, but the problem with HCM is it develops over time and often not until after a cat's breeding life should be over. Presumably because it often doesn't affect a cat until relatively late in life for a natural living cat, it hasn't been selected against.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) and testing | international cat care

And even if you hear a murmer it might or might not indicate a serious underlying problem.

Heart murmurs in cats | international cat care


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Getting back to the subject of Chausie cats I thought you might like to see the photos I took in Nepal in 1999 of a naturally occurring domestic x F. Chaus - at least that is what I was told she was. She was living round the campsite in the Chitwan National Park, as you can see was very friendly and she was pregnant, which doesn't show in the photos. As you can also see she is far less refined looking than the Chausie breed. She also had the shortish blunt tail they have.

























Wikipedia mentions several sub-specis of F. Chaus:
Jungle cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think she was likely to be this one based on where she was:
Felis chaus affinis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## blueadept (Aug 27, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> Getting back to the subject of Chausie cats I thought you might like to see the photos I took in Nepal in 1999 of a naturally occurring domestic x F. Chaus - at least that is what I was told she was. She was living round the campsite in the Chitwan National Park, as you can see was very friendly and she was pregnant, which doesn't show in the photos. As you can also see she is far less refined looking than the Chausie breed. She also had the shortish blunt tail they have.
> 
> View attachment 132207
> 
> ...


How does the Chausie temperament compare to Bengal and Savannah?


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## Sonnenblume (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi

I stumbled on this site, via google and thought I would add to the thread.

I have just imported two Chausie kittens to the UK (think Soupie was referring to me LOL), thanks for the kind words.

The pair are unrelated, the boy is a Brown Ticked Tabby and comes from Bobbie Tullo (Tasurt cattery in Arizona) and the girl is a Black Grizzled (this being a dominant gene) and comes from Sheryl Koontz (Marachel cattery in West Virginia).

They are a wonderful addition to my cat family and they have both been shown in the USA and the boy (Sidney) was shown on Sunday and finalled in 5 out of 6 rings, including being placed as Best Kitten in 2 rings.

I hope to promote and develop the Chausie breed, as I have done with my other breeds (Bengals & Savannahs) and I think I am moving in the right direction, with my Bengals gaining titles and one of my Savannahs is currently the Best Savannah Kitten, as well as the Best Savannah Adult in the World and she is on the verge of her Supreme Grand Champion (just over 200 points needed).


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Sonnenblume said:


> Hi
> 
> I stumbled on this site, via google and thought I would add to the thread.
> 
> ...


Do you have a website?? I was in touch with 2 breeders in France about 5 years ago looking to import to the UK, when I also bred bengals, but no one else was interested in importing/promoting a Chausie and I do really love them! Id love to see some pictures of your babies!!!! :001_wub: :laugh:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I think she does, I googled her user name... 

Sonnenblume Bengals & Savannahs - Breeders of quality kittens in Buckinghamshire


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> I think she does, I googled her user name...
> 
> Sonnenblume Bengals & Savannahs - Breeders of quality kittens in Buckinghamshire


lol I did after to!  But I cant see the gorgeous Chausies on there! So I googled where son bought hers from, some incredible looking cats!!


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## Sonnenblume (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi

Normally the website is upto date, but due to one thing and another, it isn't at the moment. The site will be updated over the next couple of days. The Chausies are even better in the fur than on pics, they are a wonderful breed.


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## Sonnenblume (Feb 4, 2014)

Taylorbaby said:


> Do you have a website?? I was in touch with 2 breeders in France about 5 years ago looking to import to the UK, when I also bred bengals, but no one else was interested in importing/promoting a Chausie and I do really love them! Id love to see some pictures of your babies!!!! :001_wub: :laugh:


That was probably Patrick and Celine in France. They still breed Chausies, and there is another breeder in Southern France, as well as one in Poland and one in Russia. So the breed is expanding in Europe.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Are you allowed to outcross? I think Aby's and domestics have been used to develop the breed? Are you able to use them to help get the breed going in the UK?


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## Sonnenblume (Feb 4, 2014)

spotty cats said:


> Are you allowed to outcross? I think Aby's and domestics have been used to develop the breed? Are you able to use them to help get the breed going in the UK?


I did reply yesterday, but for some reason it said it would show after being approved by a mod,,,, but never appeared?

Now the breed is at Championship status, there are no permissable outcrosses allowed. I think there are enough good Chausies around not to have to outcross.

If you did choose to outcross, you could, and it would carry the AON registration code and you are correct that Aby's have been used, as well as OSH's etc.

I would not outcross, unless I thought it would bring something to my breeding programme. I have done it once with my Savannahs, but that was to produce my Snow Savannah lines


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