# Ever had to let someone down?



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

My kittens had their second vaccinations first thing this morning - one is a little quiet and not eaten much and had quite a loose stool. His prospective slave text this afternoon to ask how he was (she had already pinned me down on second vaccination dates) 

I explained he seemed a bit under the weather and depending on how quickly he picked up would depend on when she could collect ( I had already explained it would be a few days after vaccinations) - she said she was off work so couldnt she have him even if he was under the weather! I have no intention of letting this kitten go until he is 100% and cant believe i had to explain to an adult that he would be better with me and his mum while feeling unwell than in a strangers house! 

Her response was to say she was sure he would be better in a couple of days which will prob be the case but I have a feeling I am going to get at least twice daily texts asking if he is ready - I have already had loads of texts from this lady re things like "is he used to a hairdryer" "I hope he doesnt hide when we bring him home" etc and have also allowed them to visit him twice since the initial viewing. 

I guess my question is has anyone returned a deposit at this stage because they feel uneasy about where a kitten is going? They are lovely people but their expectations of this kitten seem very high - they want a lap cat - I have already explained I cant promise that! At this present moment in time I feel like saying I dont know when the kitten will be ready and returning their deposit so they can look elsewhere. They tried to knock me down on price at the start so I explained why my kittens are the price they are (2 vaccinations registration kept to 13weeks etc ) Think they would be happier with an 8 week BYB cat - maybe ill but at least they would have it .


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

When did this buyer think they could have the kitten? The recommendation on the GCCF Code of Ethics reads as follows (my bold)



> Recommendation
> The GCCF strongly recommends that no kitten should be permitted to go to a new home before 13 weeks of age. *At least seven days* prior to this the kitten should have completed a full course of vaccinations, including a health check, given by a Veterinary Surgeon or by a listed Veterinary nurse given under the direction of a Veterinary Surgeon. The breeder should ensure that the kittens are house trained, inoculated *and in good general health*.


Kittens leave when the breeder says they're ready to leave. I'd be very wary of a buyer who wanted to take a sickly kitten. Whereas the above is a recommendation rather than a rule you'd be laying yourself open to disciplinary action for 'selling a kitten not fit for sale'.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Personally I would return the deposit. 

She sounds like she hasn't got a clue. 

Just say I'm sorry I don't feel right about you having this kitten when it has had such a bad reaction to it's vacs and return their deposit.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> When did this buyer think they could have the kitten? The recommendation on the GCCF Code of Ethics reads as follows (my bold)
> 
> Kittens leave when the breeder says they're ready to leave. I'd be very wary of a buyer who wanted to take a sickly kitten. Whereas the above is a recommendation rather than a rule you'd be laying yourself open to disciplinary action for 'selling a kitten not fit for sale'.


The buyer was aware the kitten would be thirteen weeks and have had both vaccinations - I have no intention of letting him go until I am 100 percent happy he is fine - I was just concerned she was suggesting that she took a kitten that was under the weather because she couldnt wait any longer which to me seems a tad juvenile with her interests being more important than the kittens and not really the sort of person I want for my one of my babies - they are my first litter and while I was aware of the 13 week guidelines (despite my Queen being sold to me at 9 weeks!) I wasnt aware of the 7 days after 2nd vaccination bit (my vets said 3-4 days would be fine) So many thanks for pointing this out to me.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> Personally I would return the deposit.
> 
> She sounds like she hasn't got a clue.
> 
> Just say I'm sorry I don't feel right about you having this kitten when it has had such a bad reaction to it's vacs and return their deposit.


Thank you my thoughts exactly - just needed someone to confirm I'm not being overly sensitive.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

No you are being a responsible breeder:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> Personally I would return the deposit.
> 
> She sounds like she hasn't got a clue.
> 
> Just say I'm sorry I don't feel right about you having this kitten when it has had such a bad reaction to it's vacs and return their deposit.


I so agree with this!


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Luz said:


> I so agree with this!


Us Coastal North Yorkies agree


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I think with some people you need to be really quite firm... perhaps that's the wrong word.. some folk I don't think understand the implications or manage to overlook them in their excited anticipation over collecting their kitten and it needs to spell it out to them.

I have to say, she does sound a little juvenile and if the petulance continued I'd probably return their desposit.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I wasnt aware of the 7 days after 2nd vaccination bit (my vets said 3-4 days would be fine) So many thanks for pointing this out to me.


It is only a recommendation but it is on the Code of Ethics in black and white - just a bit of 'official' backup for you  Depending on what day of the week kittens have their vaccs I don't always stick to a full seven days but it's there if you need it.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> It is only a recommendation but it is on the Code of Ethics in black and white - just a bit of 'official' backup for you


Thank you I appreciate it


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You're very welcome. It can be extremely difficult if you're not used to standing your ground with buyers. On another thread I mentioned that I have fierce restrictions if novice breeders use my stud. One of the reasons for that is so they can't be bullied into doing anything they aren't comfortable with. It's much easier for them to point to a piece of paper and say 'sorry it isn't up to me'.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I think if I received a text saying "I hope this kitten doesn't hide when it comes home with us" then the cheque would be signed & sealed in an envelope seconds after opening said text!!!

I suspect this person would be let down by a real life kitten instead of a stuffed teddy so it's saving the poor kitten the upheaval saying no now before he is returned because he was scared of his new owners poking & prodding him in a scary new place.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

messyhearts said:


> I think if I received a text saying "I hope this kitten doesn't hide when it comes home with us" then the cheque would be signed & sealed in an envelope seconds after opening said text!!!
> 
> I suspect this person would be let down by a real life kitten instead of a stuffed teddy so it's saving the poor kitten the upheaval saying no now before he is returned because he was scared of his new owners poking & prodding him in a scary new place.


Thank you I am so pleased I asked - its hard because I know these people have been counting down the days until they can have this kitten, and I hate text messages because they are easily misconstrued. Havoc is right about its hard to be firm when you are new to it all and dont have a mentor - this forum is fantastic.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

i would also refuse the kitten and return the deposit. who in their right mind would want to take a kitten whos not ready just to suit themselves is rather selfish.
ive returned a deposit at the last minute, to me i dont care as if im not happy then its not happening.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I state up front that the kitten sale can be retracted if the home & kitten are no longer suitably matched.

This woman won't have any argument (as much as she might try) as she is not the home for your kitten if she thinks so little of his well being & more about her own impatience.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have to say i agree with what others have said, i have returned a deposit at the last minute, 
If she took the kitten while it was still unwell, she might end up coming back to you and saying it wasnt well when she took it,and wanting her money back, 
These people do not think about the kitten at all, 
Why would anyone want to know if its frightened by a hairdryer,is she planning on bathing it, 
I would stick your guns, explain its not well enough to leave for a while and you would prefer to refund her deposit, ,however much she pesters you, she sounds as if she doesnt know anything about cats
Good luck


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Just out of interest - have any breeders here ever had that scenario?
'This kitten is unwell and I want my money back?'

When I took Holly for her jabs they told me she had a heart murmur, the vet told me 'you can always take her back to the breeder and get your money back, I will write you a letter if you want one'

I think the look on my face told him all he needed to know (kind of a combination of this :blink: :huh:  )

There was no way on earth I was letting her go, she was, and is my Princess. The next appt (2 weeks later) she was fine - no heart murmur, just had her boosters and still 100% healthy.

But she could have had a grade 5 murmur, and it wouldnt have made a difference to me - she's my baby, and was from the moment I met her :001_wub:


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Just out of interest - have any breeders here ever had that scenario?
> 'This kitten is unwell and I want my money back?'
> 
> When I took Holly for her jabs they told me she had a heart murmur, the vet told me 'you can always take her back to the breeder and get your money back, I will write you a letter if you want one'
> ...


I had the same thing with Abi, took her to the Vets about her Dwayne Dibley teeth and they found a possible level 1 heart murmur. Said it was prob temporary. I hope so!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Just out of interest - have any breeders here ever had that scenario?
> 'This kitten is unwell and I want my money back?'


Hasn't happened, but my health guarantee covers that.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

Could it be that she is just really excited about having your kitten, and just not very good at asking/expressing sensible questions?

Maybe she wants to come across as being enthusiastic, so you are reassured the kitten will be going to a good loving home, hence the 'I can look after a sick kitten' response. 

She also may have stated she would like a lap cat to show you she picked her chosen breed wisely, without realizing this makes her sound unrealistic as breed is an indicator of personality not an exact science?

I am sure I must have said some stupid things when getting my Furbies too, but I am still a loving slave 

However, I would also trust my gut instinct in all matters, so only you can truly judge whether your kitten has found its forever home.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Some people really have no idea, i have recently had emails from someone about having a kitten,with statements like,, i have been told cleaning out litter trays is not very nice, ,and i have been told indoor cats dont need vaccinations
So many silly questions, of course cleaning out litter trays isnt a nice job, common sense tells you that
I answered all the questions, but not an ideal candidate for one of my kittens, i,m afraid


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## dharma66 (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm not a breeder, so maybe I can see the other side a little?

As Lumboo said, she may be just a little over enthusiastic?

For example, when we got our boys, it was really important to me to get to know the breeder. Fortunately, Alan of Airlibird BSH was very understanding. Over the course of a year, we spent several visits with a litter previous to the one from which we got Eric and Ernie. We helped him out with vet visits, as he doesn't drive, and the taxi fares to his preferred vet were really high.

We helped him out with transport for a couple of shows as well. We visited our litter probably half a dozen times over the 14 weeks.

We still see Alan now, though not as often, and we still follow his show results, and those of kittens and cats he has bred.

On the other hand, we never pushed anything with Alan, and for at least half the visits, he actually invited us, we didn't ask him.

So, for me, having a close relationship with the breeder of our (sadly departed too young) boys was really important.

On the other hand, I don't thing we ever requested anything of him that was unreasonable, and we certainly would never have requested that we take a sick kitten.

I've heard first and second hand stories of breeders not accepting, or returning, deposits for all kinds of reasons, all of them seemed perfectly valid to me, as an owner, not a breeder.

The same is true here. Asking to take a sick kittens is probably over the line, especially if she pushes it. If you are uncomfortable given the interactions you have had with her then I as an owner not a breeder, would completely agree with you taking whatever action you deemed necessary.

I'm absolutely certain that not only breeders, but any responsible owners, would agree.

On the other hand, if you think some education may suffice, then maybe that's all that's needed? I'm sure you must have explained that it's impossible to guarantee a lap cat! Did you ask how she would feel if the cat never became such? Ours never did, much as we really wanted it. We knew BSH are *very* rarely lap cats, so we felt privileged when they would even join us on the sofa or the bed. Would she be the same?

Maybe she feels that taking the kitten whilst ill is, as mentioned, a good sign that she is prepared to take the rough with the smooth! She clearly hasn't realised how much of an upheaval it is for kittens to leave home, mum and siblings. Some people just don't think of this kind of thing. Maybe you could point her to some behaviour books? Sarah Heaths 'Cat and Kitten Behaviour', or anything by Vicky Halls.

Just because she does haven't the knowledge now, doesn't mean she can't get it, maybe?

But swinging back the other way, the bottom line is that you have brought these kittens up, and it is your responsibility to see they get the best chance. If you have any doubts that you don't feel can be allayed, then I think it's probably not too presumptious of me to say that an awful of people here on PF, breeder or otherwise, would support you in returning the deposit.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I have said no and returned a deposit to a lady who pushed and pushed for her kitten to come home when I delayed it cos of a scratch to his eye which got infected. She got very pushy and after I returned her deposit badmouthed me to local breeders before coming back a week later and saying she still wanted him. I would never let a less than 100% kitten leave home and she could not see that from my POV.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Soupie said:


> I have said no and returned a deposit to a lady who pushed and pushed for her kitten to come home when I delayed it cos of a scratch to his eye which got infected. She got very pushy and after I returned her deposit badmouthed me to local breeders before coming back a week later and saying she still wanted him. I would never let a less than 100% kitten leave home and she could not see that from my POV.


What did you say to her when she came back a week later?


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

That was no longer available and would stay with me til he was better. He went to a wonderful new home at 6 months and they have come back for another kitten from my current litter they are so happy


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