# suspected partial torn cruciate ligament



## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi everyone, im looking for some help for my 4yr old staffordshire bull terrier, Oscar. Last year I noticed after sleeping his back leg was a bit stiff, I mentioned it to the vet but he said just to bring him back if it got worse. Then late into the year after a long run he started limping on the same leg, we rested him for a few days and he was normal again. But on 31st Dec he began limping again and was panting so I knew he was in pain, the vet felt his leg and said she suspected a partially torn cruciate ligament and advised me to give him yumove tablets and rest him for a week. The yumove after a few months did nothing and I swapped Oscar over to Gwf joint aid for dogs which started working within a week. I also have been taking him to hydrotherapy sessions every 10 days since about march and he has gained some muscle on his leg. Hes been back to the vets again when he started limping more and had a week of anti inflammatorys and the vet said to bring him back when he was limping everyday and its unmanageable and then they will x ray. This past week he has started limping a bit more again, so ive been doing less walks and have been looking at other supplements. Ive read gwf joint aid only has a few mg of chondroitin and glucosamine and some supplements are stronger and more effective. I thought about acupuncture or massage. I have heard about bioflow magnetic collars having good results and also been told seraquin or ester c tablets will help. Im just a bit confused with all the different things and dont want him to be in pain or struggling so if anyone has any experience with any of these products or has had a dog in the same situation I would be very greatful to hear from you. Sorry about the long post. Emma x


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## Riff Raff (Feb 12, 2013)

I had a dog with what two vets diagnosed as a partial cruciate tear. After much research I decided to opt for a surgical repair, as long term results from conservative management (which is basically total rest, then gradual rehab) were not impressive. I seriously doubt any supplements will be miracle cures if the diagnosis is correct, and long term instability in the joint will cause arthritic changes.

In my case unfortunately it turned out to be bone cancer, and not a partial tear, so I would now recommend you go ahead and xray to rule out this possibility (although with your dog being young this is less likely).


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## CarlyWoody (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a maltese who was diagnosed with partial tears in both ACL's. His vet recommended a series of injections into the ligament of a mix of an anti-imflammatory, a mild steroid (I think) and an antibiotic just to cover. The difference it has made is amazing! It is supposed to thicken up the ligament as a response to these injections. He had one a week for about 6 weeks, and he's had one top up since then. He's been on a joint supplement (I'm in Australia so different ones to you) the whole time I've had him. I have also done hydrotherapy with him as well as acupuncture. 
However my dog is only 3.7 kg so I'm not sure if that treatment will work as well for a larger dog as it did with a smaller dog.
Good luck!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Riff Raff said:


> I had a dog with what two vets diagnosed as a partial cruciate tear. After much research I decided to opt for a surgical repair, as long term results from conservative management (which is basically total rest, then gradual rehab) were not impressive. I seriously doubt any supplements will be miracle cures if the diagnosis is correct, and long term instability in the joint will cause arthritic changes.
> 
> .


After having a dog with a partial tear and nurturing it through for a year only to have it go completely and suffering 4 years later with the consequences. I would agree with the above post and suggest you get it done ASAP if that's what you choose to do.
Every day waiting has the possibility of more arthritis


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi Emma

An on and off limping dog is a conundrum, for sure.

If it indeed is a partial ACL tear, read

Dog ACL Injury-- Is Surgery Really Needed?

for info and excellent rehab info.

Then there is a fab yahoogroup called "canine conservative management"who deals with all aspects of non-surgical ortho recovery. Definitely worth checking out.

As to specific supplements - so, so tricky. What works miracles for one dog does nothing for the next. My absolute favourite joint supplement is "Cosequin DS" ( through your vet or cheaper online ) . For info : http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/dog/dog-joint-bone-health/cosequin-maximum-strength

The most important "supplement" for a tendon or ligament injury is.......rest. It's also by far the hardest for animal and owner to stick to. But whether it pertains to a human, a horse, a dog or a cat, an injured ligament/tendon takes AGES to heal. Never mind what you do or what supplements you take.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Hi Emma
> 
> An on and off limping dog is a conundrum, for sure.
> 
> ...


Mmm after 2 lots of 16 weeks of rest and gradual increased exercise in a year, you start to realise that you are wasting your dogs life. You are also impacting on their later life too 

Ok for little dogs as I think they have a much better chance of recovery with conservative management

I certainly wish I'd pushed for the operation 12 months sooner


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

rona said:


> Mmm after 2 lots of 16 weeks of rest and gradual increased exercise in a year, you start to realise that you are wasting your dogs life. You are also impacting on their later life too
> 
> Ok for little dogs as I think they have a much better chance of recovery with conservative management
> 
> I certainly wish I'd pushed for the operation 12 months sooner


My post wasn't intended as a deterrant nor a value judgment. It is a decision that every owner has to make on their own and after carefully evaluating all the pros and cons for ALL approaches.

Not sure what you mean by "you are also impacting on their later life"?

Incidentally, I had a 51 kg Bernese who recovered fully from a partial tear via conservative management, a knee brace and an excellent physio. Hardly a little or lightweight dog.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think I would change vets TBH - I really don't get why a 4 year old dog is sent away several times without proper investigation and you were told to bring him back for x-rays when he is "limping every day and it is unmanageable". Is that an acceptable plan of treatment for such a young dog? I would at least be asking for a referral to an orthopaedic specialist vet for a proper assessment and plan of treatment - even if you decide between you not to go for surgery they usually have physios and specialist equipment for rehabilitation such as underwater treadmills.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Ligaments take a long time to heal if left to themselves. I have a partially torn ligament in my left knee, and it took over 2 years for it to regain its strength and function.

Rest for a week isn't going to do anything. I agree the vet should investigate it properly.


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi everyone, thank you all for your replies and im sorry for only just writing back. And I just want to say to Rona, thank you for writing about Alfies operation, I have been reading the diary this weekend and im really sorry to hear hes having problems with his leg still. Oscar is slightly better on his leg but hes still the worst he has been but not seeming to be in any pain. He is having another hydrotherapy session in the morning. I am worried about him having an operation and the anasthetic, also the recovery. Its so hard to keep him still, he is like a puppy and everything he does is giddy and boistrous. It was really difficult when we rested him for the week, he is a massive baby and he got really depressed and would sit and cry at me to go out, and when I took the other dogs for a walk he would get that wound up he'd almost scream!! Ive been telling people since January that he will need an operation eventually but I think really I havent believed it up until now. I would love to carry on with conservative management but I feel like its taken up so much of his time already and he must be so frustrated with not being able to go flying after his ball and run up and down hills, I just want him back to normal again. I have spent the whole weekend reading about the different types of surgery and looking at specialist vets, ive pretty much thought of nothing else. I dont know what surgery to go for as I know it will be so hard to keep him still so I need one with a quick recovery. Ive got so many questions to ask the vet and my head is spinning so I'll probably forget alot of them. I cant wait to see him swimming in the morning as he loves it so much and then I will try and get him in at the vets after that. Thank you all again for your advice


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about what type of surgery will be best, wait and see what a specialist says, I've found most have their preferences for the type of surgery they do so it may well be that the vet you see only does TPLO or only does TTA. For young and active dogs they do tend to go for this type of procedure rather than repairing the actual ligament. Do you have insurance?

Indie my rottie had a complete rupture to one and a partial to the other cruciate at 13 months of age and bilateral TPLO surgery in March 2013. I have 2 other dogs so I do understand your concerns about keeping Oscar quiet. I found at first she was a bit stiff and sore so didn;t try to do too much. I have a pen for her which I used to divide up an area of the lounge so she couldn't get to the furniture or other dogs. When the others went for walks she had some of her food in an activity toy (not one of the roll about ones) and a stuffed kong or even a raw butchers bone to keep her occupied. 

Good luck - keep us posted.


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi, sorry for the late reply again. Oscar had his x rays yesterday and hes got a partial rupture and some extra bone growth on his patella. The x rays have been sent off to the surgeon, i've looked on his website and he seems to prefer the tta op. I don't have insurance but I have got some cash put aside and my vet will do a payment plan if i'm short. I wont know more till Monday as that's when I'll speak to the surgeon. But my vet did say the op will be some time next week. The pen is a good idea, I was going to crate him but I tried him in it the other day and I'm not sure if its going to work for him. Ive just ordered an extreme xl kong for him as he chewed his other one up! How is Indie now? Is she able to run around or do you still have to be careful? X


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

emulouisiana said:


> Hi, sorry for the late reply again. Oscar had his x rays yesterday and hes got a partial rupture and some extra bone growth on his patella. The x rays have been sent off to the surgeon, i've looked on his website and he seems to prefer the tta op. I don't have insurance but I have got some cash put aside and my vet will do a payment plan if i'm short. I wont know more till Monday as that's when I'll speak to the surgeon. But my vet did say the op will be some time next week. The pen is a good idea, I was going to crate him but I tried him in it the other day and I'm not sure if its going to work for him. Ive just ordered an extreme xl kong for him as he chewed his other one up! How is Indie now? Is she able to run around or do you still have to be careful? X


Sorry to hear this but at least you know what you are dealing with now. Shame you don't have insurance as a TTA won't be cheap but wait and see what the specialist says.

Unfortunately Indie isn't a straightforward case as she had other problems as well as the cruciates so a few months after the TPLOs she had surgery to both elbows (for elbow dysplasia) and has considerable damage to cartilage in her elbows which means she is lame most of the time and will need a joint replacement in the future. She also had a luxating patella that was operated on in January of this year. So yes we still have to be fairly careful with her but not because of the TPLOs. Our previous rottie also had TPLOs to both legs but not at the same time and she went back to pretty much normal exercise afterwards.

Let us know how you get on.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Good luck ......


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi, Oscar is having his operation in the morning. The vet has quoted about £1000 which isnt as bad as I thought it would be. Its going to be a hard day tomorrow so im just going to keep myself busy. The vet said Oscar's other leg is in perfect condition so hopefully that leg wont tear too. Sorry to hear about Indie x


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Good luck, I'm sure he'll be fine. One of my had a TPLO just over a week ago and we are doing great thus so far. Mine is a very active pointer breed so if we can do it, you can. 

I've got to ask though, it's definitely an experienced ortho vet doing the surgery? £1000 seems very cheap for major orthopedic surgery! mine cost more than triple that...


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> Good luck, I'm sure he'll be fine. One of my had a TPLO just over a week ago and we are doing great thus so far. Mine is a very active pointer breed so if we can do it, you can.
> 
> I've got to ask though, it's definitely an experienced ortho vet doing the surgery? £1000 seems very cheap for major orthopedic surgery! mine cost more than triple that...


I did wonder that too although also wondered whether its not going to be a TTA now and more the old style suture repair to the ligament. Anyway hope it goes well today.


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi, I posted a reply last night but not sure where its gone. The man who did the surgery runs a referral service for cruciate ligament operations and some other ops, he said he'd been doing them since 2005. I think it was cheaper as he comes out to your vets rather than having his own centre, he also has worked alot at the PDSA so I think he tries to keep it cheaper. Oscar ended up having the TLPO surgery as he wasnt suitable for the TTA, it came to £1250 in total. He said the op went really well. Oscars been crying alot but the vet assured me hes had enough methodone to keep him pain free till tomo. Hes already had a wee and hes had some chicken but is feeling really sorry for himself. Hes not put any weight on his leg at all and its very swollen and starting to bruise, he will be having his staples out in 10 days. So were doing ok so far, hes cuddled up in his cage with his duvet, blanket and a new teddy. Will keep you updated


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

My friends dog was crying after TPLO. In the end they found out he had an allergic reaction to the latex gloves


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

emulouisiana said:


> Hi, I posted a reply last night but not sure where its gone. The man who did the surgery runs a referral service for cruciate ligament operations and some other ops, he said he'd been doing them since 2005. I think it was cheaper as he comes out to your vets rather than having his own centre, he also has worked alot at the PDSA so I think he tries to keep it cheaper. Oscar ended up having the TLPO surgery as he wasnt suitable for the TTA, it came to £1250 in total. He said the op went really well. Oscars been crying alot but the vet assured me hes had enough methodone to keep him pain free till tomo. Hes already had a wee and hes had some chicken but is feeling really sorry for himself. Hes not put any weight on his leg at all and its very swollen and starting to bruise, he will be having his staples out in 10 days. So were doing ok so far, hes cuddled up in his cage with his duvet, blanket and a new teddy. Will keep you updated


Sounds normal. Bo started putting weight on the leg on day three but every dog is different.

Wait until the effects of the anesthetic and drugs wear off - then the "fun" (aka trying to keep them quiet....) begins!


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi, Oscars leg is quite swollen still and just above his ankle it seems to be filling up with fluid, its not excessive but its got bigger since this morning. Should I be worried or is this normal?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emulouisiana said:


> Hi, Oscars leg is quite swollen still and just above his ankle it seems to be filling up with fluid, its not excessive but its got bigger since this morning. Should I be worried or is this normal?


This happened to my boy on day 4. He had an injection for it but I'm not certain it's necessary. 
Best check with your vet


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks, my vet is shut now till Tuesday and I always feel bad ringing the emergency number. I just read about putting a cold compress on, so might try that and if it gets any worse ring the vets. Other than the swelling hes doing really well, had two wees today, hes not drank any water since he got home but I syringed a bit in his mouth last night and this morning.


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## emulouisiana (Jul 20, 2012)

I couldnt stand the worrying so I rang his vets, she said its normal and not to worry, shes going to ring me tomorrow to check how he is and maybe arrange for him to go in so she can look at it as he may need antibiotics. I feel a bit better now


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Some fluid in the leg is normal. Bo developed it around the hock around 24 hours after the op. In went around day 3-4 when she started using the leg more. I didn't use a compress or anything.


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