# 5 Dogs on crash plane



## jaycee05

Only just seen this,there were 5 dogs being taken to their new homes in Germany by Spanish volunteers, on the crashed plane, poor things RIP doggies, so sad they didnt get their new forever homes after the awful lives they were going from


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## Doggiedelight

So dogs to the doggies and people. Rest in peace


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## rox666

The only consolation I guess is that they wouldn't have known what was going on unlike the passengers and crew.


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## jaycee05

Just what i was thinking, poor dogs,poor people, it seem now that the plane was crashed deliberately, how awful,people can be heard screaming on the recorder they have found, 
I think they will now have to rethink their anti terrorist precauations,as the pilot was locked out, maybe always have another person in the cockpit when the pilot has to go out


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## Britt

So sad. The plane crashed after descending for 8 minutes .... That's very long when you're aboard of a plane. People knew they were gonna crash, I hope that the poor dogs didn't


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## smokeybear

jaycee05 said:


> Just what i was thinking, poor dogs,poor people, it seem now that the plane was crashed deliberately, how awful,people can be heard screaming on the recorder they have found,
> I think they will now have to rethink their anti terrorist precauations,as the pilot was locked out, maybe always have another person in the cockpit when the pilot has to go out


Here we go, where did you get the "facts" that it was crashed deliberately?

I must have missed that information.

And you have assumed the pilot was locked out deliberately................ hmmmm it could not possibly be that he could not get in because

a) the key pad did not work
b) the other pilot had a heart attack
c) the camera was not working

just a thought................. :eek6:


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## Little Zooey

Apparently there was a key pad outside. The pilot only had to enter the code and worst-case scenario, wait for so many seconds for it to open the door. That is supposed to cover the eventuality of the person flying the plane having a heart attack. The code had to be repeatedly refused and with only one person on the other side of the door, there seems to be no other option...


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## Britt

I heard on Fox News that the co-pilot wanted the plane to crash :confused1:


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## Hanwombat

I believe the dogs being on the plane may be a hoax as nothing has been reported.

If the co pilot had had a heart attack surely this would have been heard? No one will never know 100% what happened.

Well unless they find the second black box, surely that will say if the co pilot did put the plane into a downward descent.


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## rox666

Hanwombat said:


> Well unless they find the second black box, surely that will say if the co pilot did put the plane into a downward descent.


Yeah the FDR should be able to tell them or at least allow them to make an educated guess whether it was deliberate or not. Sadly based on media reports so far that is looking to be the case. I'd be surprised if they don't or haven't found it yet as well.


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## smokeybear

Little Zooey said:


> Apparently there was a key pad outside. The pilot only had to enter the code and worst-case scenario, wait for so many seconds for it to open the door. That is supposed to cover the eventuality of the person flying the plane having a heart attack. The code had to be repeatedly refused and with only one person on the other side of the door, there seems to be no other option...


I think you will find that a) keypads can go wrong and have done so in the past and b) there is an override button in the cockpit.............


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## smokeybear

Hanwombat said:


> .
> 
> If the co pilot had had a heart attack surely this would have been heard? No one will never know 100% what happened.


One can have a silent heart attack..................


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## rox666

smokeybear said:


> I think you will find that a) keypads can go wrong and have done so in the past and b) there is an override button in the cockpit.............


But surely if the keypad went wrong then there would have been voices as outside pilot shouted to inside pilot about how to get in? I guess having an override button in the cockpit makes sense as it stops a hijacker forcing a pilot who is on the outside to put the number in to get in. But in the situation that seems to have occurred here an override just doesn't seem like a good idea.



smokeybear said:


> One can have a silent heart attack..................


I suppose - although surely they would have heard something on the CVR - even if it was just groaning? But anyway, even if it was a silent heart attack - why did the plane descend there? Surely the auto pilot would have been on and therefore the plane would have continued on course.

I know it is unhealthy to speculate, but not doing so is nigh on impossible with all these media leaks. But what has been reported on the news so far does imply that it was deliberate - whether it was suicide or terrorism.


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## moonstone

There were NO DOGS on this flightjust one dog handler from the rescue who was killed along with all the other passengers:sad:


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## lostbear

smokeybear said:


> Here we go, where did you get the "facts" that it was crashed deliberately?
> 
> I must have missed that information.
> 
> And you have assumed the pilot was locked out deliberately................ hmmmm it could not possibly be that he could not get in because
> 
> a) the key pad did not work
> b) the other pilot had a heart attack
> c) the camera was not working
> 
> just a thought................. :eek6:


Oh dear - here we go again . . . .


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## rox666

moonstone said:


> There were NO DOGS on this flightjust one dog handler from the rescue who was killed along with all the other passengers:sad:


How do you know? That's not an accusation that you are speculating - just wondered where you'd got the info from.


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## moonstone

The info is on a rescue forum that I am a member ofthey home rescue dogs from Spain and got this from the Spanish rescue site.


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## Sacrechat

smokeybear said:


> Here we go, where did you get the "facts" that it was crashed deliberately?
> 
> I must have missed that information.
> 
> And you have assumed the pilot was locked out deliberately................ hmmmm it could not possibly be that he could not get in because
> 
> a) the key pad did not work
> b) the other pilot had a heart attack
> c) the camera was not working
> 
> just a thought................. :eek6:


Turn on the news!


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## Sacrechat

On the BBC news it has said that the co-pilot took the plane off auto and there is evidence that he deliberately crashed the plane. It has recorded his actions.


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## jaycee05

smokeybear said:


> Here we go, where did you get the "facts" that it was crashed deliberately?
> 
> I must have missed that information.
> 
> And you have assumed the pilot was locked out deliberately................ hmmmm it could not possibly be that he could not get in because
> 
> a) the key pad did not work
> b) the other pilot had a heart attack
> c) the camera was not working
> 
> just a thought................. :eek6:


I didnt say this, it was on the news, , so i havent assumed anything, a bit quick at accusing me there, it is what was heard on the planes recorder apparently


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## jaycee05

I have read since that there were no dogs on the plane,so dont know where that originally came from:confused1:
The recording showed that the captain was banging on the door to get back in the cockpit, the co pilot must have overridden it, people were also heard screaming,poor things, :sad:
I havent assumed anything, all was on the news this morning someone being interviewed from the airline i guess, didnt catch who it was ,but the keypad was put on the planes in case of terrorists he said


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## leashedForLife

- Cockpit doors have been beefed-up to make it impossible to barge in.

- the cockpit door is locked; the keypad code can be RE-SET from inside, to lock the door for 5-mins.

- the co-pilot, a 27- or 28-YO German, re-set the keypad code & kept the pilot out for the crucial period,
while he deliberately flipped the switch to begin the plane's descent.


- the pilot was recorded very clearly, pounding on the locked door & shouting, unable to enter.

- No-one knows yet WHY the co-pilot did this, but essentially he put the plane into a suicidal dive,
killing himself & all aboard. His breathing was described as regular & even, he was quite calm, & never
"lost control" of the plane; it wasn't an accident. It was a deliberate high-speed crash.
.
.


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## jaycee05

Exactly the report i heard, so sad for all the people he effectively murdered:sad:


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## smokeybear

jaycee05 said:


> I didnt say this, it was on the news, , so i havent assumed anything, a bit quick at accusing me there, it is what was heard on the planes recorder apparently


It was SUGGESTED that he did it deliberately there was no definite evidence which is now emerging,

I find it very scary that people cannot differentiate between solid fact and speculations, perhaps because "I heard it on the news" somehow equates to scientific evidence?!


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## rox666

smokeybear said:


> I find it very scary that people cannot differentiate between solid fact and speculations, perhaps because "I heard it on the news" somehow equates to scientific evidence?!


Rubbish. This information was coming direct from the prosecutor, not the news. The people in the know were issuing statements as to what had happened. They were on camera - we could see and hear them. These were facts. Just like when the police announce something via the media - we believe what they say don't we?

If we refuse to believe anything without scientific evidence that we get to see ourselves and not via the news then we'd be in a bit of a mess.


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## smokeybear

rox666 said:


> Rubbish. This information was coming direct from the prosecutor, not the news. The people in the know were issuing statements as to what had happened. They were on camera - we could see and hear them. These were facts. Just like when the police announce something via the media - we believe what they say don't we?
> 
> If we refuse to believe anything without scientific evidence that we get to see ourselves and not via the news then we'd be in a bit of a mess.


There is STILL no CONCLUSIVE evidence that this pilot did commit suicide, until and unless there IS then it is CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

And if you continue to believe any and all things without scientific corroboration please excuse yourself from jury duties. 

It is extremely frightening but not alas, surprising that so many people regurgitate what they see, read or hear without critical thought and yet these people would be the first to complain if they were on the receiving end of such an attitude..................................

Not only is this extremely important from a legal point of view regarding but also from a civil law point of view.

Not to mention the effect such information can and will have on the bereaved, the pilot who left the cockpit and of course the parents of the co pilot.


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## leashedForLife

smokeybear said:


> There is STILL no CONCLUSIVE evidence that this pilot did commit suicide;
> until and unless there IS, then it is CIRCUMSTANTIAL.
> 
> ...


Please explain what conceivable CIRCUMSTANCES might prompt the co-pilot to reset the keyboard code,
locking the pilot out of the cockpit, & while he pounded ineffectively on the door, flip the switch to send
the plane directly into the ground?

- he was lucid & coherent.
- he was in no physical distress.
- he was calm.
- he didn't "accidentally" throw the switch.
- having thrown the switch, he didn't attempt to change that decision.

I await Ur speculation with interest.

Meanwhile, an international team of investigators have already stated that they can draw no other
conclusion, but that this was methodical & deliberate; what they don't know is *why* he did this.

I am very sorry for the 150-odd lives of innocents he sacrificed, & even more so for their families & friends;
the German village that lost so many children, AND their teachers, is especially heartbreaking.

I can't say I'm very sorry for the death of the co-pilot, as - if he wanted to die - there are better ways than
to murder so many other people, who didn't get to vote on whether or not they opted in.
I'm sure the co-pilot's family are as distraught as any - but schizophrenic adults aren't given commercial
pilot's licenses, so we are still left with more questions than answers.
.
.


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## rox666

smokeybear said:


> There is STILL no CONCLUSIVE evidence that this pilot did commit suicide, until and unless there IS then it is CIRCUMSTANTIAL.
> 
> And if you continue to believe any and all things without scientific corroboration please excuse yourself from jury duties.
> 
> It is extremely frightening but not alas, surprising that so many people regurgitate what they see, read or hear without critical thought and yet these people would be the first to complain if they were on the receiving end of such an attitude..................................
> 
> Not only is this extremely important from a legal point of view regarding but also from a civil law point of view.
> 
> Not to mention the effect such information can and will have on the bereaved, the pilot who left the cockpit and of course the parents of the co pilot.


I didn't say it was suicide. Nobody knows why the co-pilot didn't let the captain back in to the cockpit and why the auto pilot was off and why the plane went into a descent. I even go as far as to think that if it was suicide why didn't he just fly the plane straight into the ground rather than go for a slow descent. Whether it was suicide or not the poor man's family must be going through hell right now.

BUT unless I get to read the accident report, go to the site and see the evidence myself and listen to the cockpit voice recorder, how the hell am I supposed to do anything other than listen to what the people who have heard the voice recorder and seen the evidence are saying. Are they all lying? Is it all one big conspiracy?

I assume then that you won't be believing the final air accident report as you haven't seen the "scientific evidence" and it will be being delivered to you via the media?

I understand where you are coming from - often stuff gets reported and some poor sole has suffered trial by media. Too often there have been cases of people being taken in for questioning in relation to atrocious crimes and media reports have led to this person's family being attacked and home fire bombed as everybody instantly believes they are guilty because the press says so. When in fact it later turns out they are not. But in this instance, facts are being released that allow us to believe that there was no mechanical failure and that there was no sudden silent heart attack and they are even going as far as to say that it was deliberate and so far they haven't retracted that statement.

So for now, until I hear otherwise, stupid gullible me will continue to believe that it looks like it was crashed deliberately.


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## jaycee05

It has now emeged that something found in his house was relevant, and the latest that it was sicknote issue on the day he flew the plane
Also, but this b*is* speculation only that he had a gridge against someone on the plane,he was aloso apparently jilted ,which added to the depression he was suffering


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## silvi

rox666 said:


> But in this instance, facts are being released that allow us to believe that there was no mechanical failure and that there was no sudden silent heart attack and they are even going as far as to say that it was deliberate and so far they haven't retracted that statement.


The thing is, they haven't found the flight Data Recorder yet (as far as I know), and until they find and read the data on the FDR (and time-line it to the CVR), there is a whole chunk of evidence missing and no actual proof that there wasn't some sort of mechanical failure.
Often even so-called 'straightforward' cases (like this one _appears_ to be) have other contributing causes.

I don't know about you, but I would like some assurance, with actual evidence to back it up, that there wasn't a problem with the flight controls, or a problem with the cabin door, and preferably before I next fly on an A320.


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## rox666

silvi said:


> The thing is, they haven't found the flight Data Recorder yet (as far as I know), and until they find and read the data on the FDR (and time-line it to the CVR), there is a whole chunk of evidence missing and no actual proof that there wasn't some sort of mechanical failure.
> Often even so-called 'straightforward' cases (like this one _appears_ to be) have other contributing causes.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I would like some assurance, with actual evidence to back it up, that there wasn't a problem with the flight controls, or a problem with the cabin door, and preferably before I next fly on an A320.


I agree that we need to wait for all the evidence to be looked at but I do still struggle to believe it was anything other than deliberate because why else would he lock the pilot out? Strange that they haven't mentioned the FDR. I know the wreckages is scattered over a vast area but I'd have assumed that as they have found the CDR that they would find the FDR in a similar location. But then what do I know about what they've found.

Seems that he is being hung drawn and quartered in the news today now anyway. Life for his remaining family will never be as it once as.


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## leashedForLife

silvi said:


> ... there is ... no actual proof that there wasn't some sort of mechanical failure. Often even
> so-called 'straightforward' cases (as this one _appears_ to be) have other contributing causes.
> 
> ... I would like ... actual evidence ... that there wasn't a problem with the flight controls,
> or a problem with the cabin door, and preferably before I next fly on an A320.


Well, good luck with that - he took the plane down at 3400-ft per minute, more than double the "low end"
of a normal landing, which is 1500 to 2K ft per minute. There won't be many big pieces left.

re the co-pilot -
Log In - The New York Times

Airlines tend to rely on pilot's sense of responsibility to give them notice of problems - in this case,
it appears he'd been given a diagnosis he didn't like, & consulted another Dr for a 2nd opinion.
.
.


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## jaycee05

The papers this morning ae saying he was having problems about his sexuality,and vision problems, so sounds like a lot going on in his head,if thats true


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## silvi

jaycee05 said:


> The papers this morning ae saying he was having problems about his sexuality,and vision problems, so sounds like a lot going on in his head,if thats true


For heavens sake!
Are they trying to say that someone having problems with their sexuality is a risk as a pilot?
And the vision problems (if there were any) should have been checked out by the Airline.
Companies in the transport industry don't just rely on pilots/drivers to get their own medical checks - they carry out checks too, including spot checks.
I'm sorry, but so much of the 'evidence' coming out is hearsay and even slander in some cases.


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## Ang2

smokeybear said:


> It was SUGGESTED that he did it deliberately there was no definite evidence which is now emerging,
> 
> I find it very scary that people cannot differentiate between solid fact and speculations, perhaps because "I heard it on the news" somehow equates to scientific evidence?!


Im so glad youre not one of the official Investigators - seeing as you cant string a never-ending chain of clues together. If it looks like, walks like, quacks. like..............


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## moggie14

I think it's becoming perfectly clear what happened, sadly :sad:
I wonder if his parents or girlfriend had any idea his state? It's one thing hiding it from your employer but your nearest and dearest? Very odd


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## moggie14

silvi said:


> Are they trying to say that someone having problems with their sexuality is a risk as a pilot?


I don't think that is the actual claim, but if true it could have been on his mind therefore affecting his thought process.


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## jaycee05

I think they are saying his all of these things contributed to his depression, and he couldnt bear the thought of losing his pilots licence,


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## jaycee05

I am not commenting on this thread anymore as some people seem to think its all fantasy.and i cant be bothered reading it


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## leashedForLife

.
.

Smokey, U were absolutely right! - the co-pilot *did* crash accidentally. :yesnod:

- he accidentally locked the pilot out of the cabin by changing the passcode.
- when the pilot banged on the door, then tried to break it open, he couldn't remember how to override
the passcode controls a 2nd time; a most-unfortunate accident, indeed.
- he accidentally flipped a switch to send the plane to an altitude of 100-ft.
- he accidentally accelerated the plane's descent; not once, but several times.
- he accidentally made no attempt to rescind any of these decisions.

In the days before the accident, he:
- accidentally researched "cabin security" & ways to defeat it.
- accidentally researched suicide methods.
- accidentally sought a 2nd medical opinion for an unnamed Dx.
- accidentally discarded sick-notes that said he was 'too ill' to work.

What a shame that so many accidents cumulatively led to the ultimate accident, when the plane
hit the ground at high speed, accidentally. :nonod: And accidentally killed so many. :crying:
.
.
.
.


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## moggie14

Yep a bit more than 'circumstantial' right now I think 
It's a bit scary that someone is such a responsible position can hide a huge amount of issues which subsequently led to the crash. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for him in a weird way - why didn't his friends and family not notice how fragile he was?


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## smokeybear

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> 
> Smokey, U were absolutely right! - the co-pilot *did* crash accidentally. :yesnod:
> 
> - he accidentally locked the pilot out of the cabin by changing the passcode.
> - when the pilot banged on the door, then tried to break it open, he couldn't remember how to override
> the passcode controls a 2nd time; a most-unfortunate accident, indeed.
> - he accidentally flipped a switch to send the plane to an altitude of 100-ft.
> - he accidentally accelerated the plane's descent; not once, but several times.
> - he accidentally made no attempt to rescind any of these decisions.
> 
> In the days before the accident, he:
> - accidentally researched "cabin security" & ways to defeat it.
> - accidentally researched suicide methods.
> - accidentally sought a 2nd medical opinion for an unnamed Dx.
> - accidentally discarded sick-notes that said he was 'too ill' to work.
> 
> What a shame that so many accidents cumulatively led to the ultimate accident, when the plane
> hit the ground at high speed, accidentally. :nonod: And accidentally killed so many. :crying:
> .
> .
> .
> .


Amazing, yet another demonstration of how people interpret the printed word to suit their own interpretation.

Did I STATE anywhere that this is what happened?

OR, did I muse that at the time of discussion, nobody actually had all the facts and there were a number of possibilities?

Because I do not jump to conclusions, nor make assumptions but wait for all the FACTS to be ascertained and do not jump on bandwagons that makes me a rarity I know................... the words undermine, your and credibility come to mind............


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## smokeybear

Ang2 said:


> Im so glad youre not one of the official Investigators - seeing as you cant string a never-ending chain of clues together. If it looks like, walks like, quacks. like..............


I am glad too, stringing together a never ending chain of clues is not the way that properly trained investigators discover the truth.

Except in Agatha Christie novels of course.


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## smokeybear

leashedForLife said:


> Please explain what conceivable CIRCUMSTANCES might prompt the co-pilot to reset the keyboard code,
> locking the pilot out of the cockpit, & while he pounded ineffectively on the door, flip the switch to send
> the plane directly into the ground?
> 
> - he was lucid & coherent.
> - he was in no physical distress.
> - he was calm.
> - he didn't "accidentally" throw the switch.
> - having thrown the switch, he didn't attempt to change that decision.
> 
> I await Ur speculation with interest.
> 
> Meanwhile, an international team of investigators have already stated that they can draw no other
> conclusion, but that this was methodical & deliberate; what they don't know is *why* he did this.
> 
> I am very sorry for the 150-odd lives of innocents he sacrificed, & even more so for their families & friends;
> the German village that lost so many children, AND their teachers, is especially heartbreaking.
> 
> I can't say I'm very sorry for the death of the co-pilot, as - if he wanted to die - there are better ways than
> to murder so many other people, who didn't get to vote on whether or not they opted in.
> I'm sure the co-pilot's family are as distraught as any - but schizophrenic adults aren't given commercial
> pilot's licenses, so we are still left with more questions than answers.
> .
> .


You will wait for ever for my speculation, I do not speculate, that is where a lot of unecessary grief is caused

I am a trained investigator and that is how we work.


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## smokeybear

moggie14 said:


> I think it's becoming perfectly clear what happened, sadly :sad:
> I wonder if his parents or girlfriend had any idea his state? It's one thing hiding it from your employer but your nearest and dearest? Very odd


Not odd at all, there thousands of accounts by the nearest and dearest of people who commit suicide, blow up people or commit mass murder which tell of their complete shock at the discovery.

After all, that is how many mass murderers are so successful, they do not have "I am a psycopath" written all over their forehead (surprisingly)


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## smokeybear

moggie14 said:


> Yep a bit more than 'circumstantial' right now I think
> It's a bit scary that someone is such a responsible position can hide a huge amount of issues which subsequently led to the crash. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for him in a weird way - why didn't his friends and family not notice how fragile he was?


Because people are very good at hiding their pain, suffering, mental state etc.


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## Rafa

Unfortunately, those who are truly suicidal can be extremely clever at hiding it.

They don't want to be stopped you see, so don't want to arouse concern or suspicion, even in those closest to them.


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## Guest

I havent been following this story that much, but wondering how people can be positive its a suicide?

OH is a police officer, and even when there is a suicide note or previous attempts, they still dont automatically assume a death was suicide, they still launch a full investigation that takes usually several months, not weeks....


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## leashedForLife

ouesi said:


> ... wondering how people can be *positive* its a suicide?


.
.
.
If by "positive", U mean he left a detailed letter explaining what he meant to do & when he meant to do it,
plus where & how he would do it, then no - he didn't.

Just how close to *100% absolutely sure* would U like to be, given there's no written record of INTENT?

He won't be coming back for an interview on 60-minutes. ::Shrug::
.
.
.


ouesi said:


> OH is a police officer, & even when there's a suicide note or prior attempts, they still dont *automatically assume*
> a death was suicide; they launch a full investigation that takes usually several months, not weeks.


.
.
The authorities - French & German, assisted by Swiss & other specialists - didn't ASSUME it was suicide.

They 1st eliminated the possibility of terrorist attack - bomb, missile, etc - or a missile attack from the maniacs
in the Ukraine. The area covered by debris is too small for the plane to have disintegrated in midair; it hit in
one piece, & -*then*- came apart.

Then they found the cockpit audio-recorder, which while damaged, provided the ambient sound-track.

Meanwhile, they were scouring the various personnel & their activity; the co-pilot's crumpled & torn sick-notes in 
his apt trashcan were an immediate red-flag.
They'd already heard the pilot beg him to open the door, then pound on it, & finally attack the bulkhead with a fire-ax,
all to no avail. They'd heard the co-pilot's steady breathing, heard him shut off the audible alarm for a crash warning -
not once, but multiple times.

Then they found the plane's mechanical recording - what was done, what happened when - & finally they
time-synchronized the audio recording with the mechanical record: when the pilot was locked out with a new
passcode on the keypad, when the co-pilot threw the switch to descend to 100-ft, how fast the plane was
descending [double the rate of the low-end of a normal landing], when the co-pilot ACCELERATED the rate
of descent as the pilot began to hit the door with the fire-ax, when the co-pilot shut off the audible alarm.

The authorities know by now what his Dx was, altho that will not be published due to privacy laws.

They also know that Lufthansa KNEW he was treated for severe depression during his "break", when he
withdrew from training in [IIRC] 2009 - but he returned to pilot-training without any limits or questioning
by the company, wasn't seen by a Lufthansa M.D., wasn't required to keep them aware of any psychoactive
meds or psych treatment; & finally, he was having VISUAL problems of an undefined kind.

So it wasn't "just" depression; psych issues, sexual worries, & visual problems were present.

I am not saying that makes suicide inescapable; WHAT HE DID - months before, days before, & during
the plane's flight - are what add up to suicide, not 'worrying about whether I'm gay, straight, bi-, or some
altogether different sexual being'. For all we know, he had a foot-fetish & could only ejaculate while fondled
by someone's arches - who cares, that's immaterial. Or maybe he had to dress up as a teddy-bear, while
his partner - M or F - dressed as Goldilocks. So what?... The crucial factors are his ACTIONS, prior to &
on the day of the flight.

Before the day, he researched the possibility.

On the day?
He wasn't being coerced, he was awake & alert, he took multiple deliberate actions, & he did not attempt
to alter any of his decisions. Each time he had a choice, he chose to take the plane down - faster, if possible.
.
.
.


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## Guest

The crash is still under investigation is it not?

None of the reports from the FDR or VDR have been released to the public, so all of this is just &#8220;leaked&#8221; information. How do we know if it&#8217;s accurate?

What has been found at his home may be relevant, or it may just be a really unfortunate coincidence, until there is an official report, I think it&#8217;s a little (a lot) insensitive to speculate


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## leashedForLife

ouesi said:


> ...
> *None* of the reports from the FDR or VDR *have been released to the public*, so all of this
> is just leaked info. How do we know if its accurate?
> .


.
.
Huh? - who said it was LEAKED info?

U think somebody created an audio-recording? - it's a fake? :blink: U've lost me, i'm sorry.
.


ouesi said:


> What was found at his home may be relevant, or it may just be a really unfortunate coincidence;
> until there's an official report, I think its a little (a lot) insensitive to speculate.
> .


.
.
They went thru his hard-drive to find what he'd done on-line in recent months. Was that 'insensitive'?

The man is dead; his withdrawal from pilot-training & Tx for depression have already been acknowledged
by Lufthansa, so that's far from 'speculation'. His more-recent Dx & 2nd-opinion are also not speculation,
but fact; they are not releasing the Dx, only that he was concerned / unhappy / upset / disagreed?...
& sought confirmation.

He cannot be embarrassed by anything done now - he's out of the wrangle. His family & friends aren't
guilty of anything - they can't be blamed for his actions, can they? He was an adult, & made his own choices,
within whatever limits. No-one can choose to do ANYthing; everyone has some constraints, financial,
emotional, political... it could be circumstances, who knows what. This man made choices that resulted
in many deaths. His survivors aren't at fault for that, so saying 'speculation is hurtful' is - IMO - excessive.

And, as i said - this isn't speculation. There hasn't been an 'official report', but even the official publication
won't REVEAL ALL, in any case. His Dx is unlikely to be published - only whether or no it would be likely
to affect his career as a pilot, or otherwise severely impact his life.
.
.


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## Ang2

ouesi said:


> The crash is still under investigation is it not?
> 
> None of the reports from the FDR or VDR have been released to the public, so all of this is just leaked information. How do we know if its accurate?
> 
> What has been found at his home may be relevant, or it may just be a really unfortunate coincidence, until there is an official report, I think its a little (a lot) insensitive to speculate


Leaked information?  The German authorities gave several press interviews as evidence came to light.

Give your head a wobble, luv!!!


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## moggie14

ouesi said:


> I havent been following this story that much, but wondering how people can be positive its a suicide?
> 
> OH is a police officer, and even when there is a suicide note or previous attempts, they still dont automatically assume a death was suicide, they still launch a full investigation that takes usually several months, not weeks....


I guess at the end of the investigation and with no other explanation?
At least they have something to go on with this crash, unlike others - I hope the families of the crew and passengers can get a little peace.


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## Calvine

smokeybear said:


> Because people are very good at hiding their pain, suffering, mental state etc.


True...there's often a train delayed because someone jumped under it and their friends/relatives/colleagues without fail will register complete and total amazement. They seldom say, 'Well, I'm not a bit surprised, we've been expecting it for a while'. A friend of my neighbours recently jumped off a multi-storey car park and his b/friend said he couldn't understand it at all, what the hell, they had booked a holiday to Barbados only two days before...etc etc.


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## Pupcakes

rox666 said:


> The only consolation I guess is that they wouldn't have known what was going on unlike the passengers and crew.


I don't know if there were dogs on the plane, but if there was, they probably would have known something was up long before any human. They are so sensitive to changes in the atmosphere and human emotions, they would have picked it up at the hint of trouble.

It's a horrific tragedy all round.


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