# cat breeding,info on registered cats etc



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Hi im really confused about the whole registered breeding thing.I just looked on a breeders website,on this forum and they are breeding registered cats,a particular breed,but they are also crossing this breed with a different one????both parents(of different breed)are registered,but kittens i presume cant be as mixed breed?Is this an acceptable thing?or can they somehow be registered,There is so much to look into,and i have had a few brain cells die on me since the kids,any advice/info on this appreciated.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

certain breeds can be crossed and registered, mainly with tica. Example Bengal x Oriental short hair is a first generation serengheti cat, only registered with tica if both parents are registed active.

if a siamese was mated by a persian the kittens are cross bred so no, kittens would not be registered. i'm not sure why people do this, unless it's an accidental mating.

I know back when people were introdcing new breeds they crossed cats but it's then done proper and for a purpose and i guess off spring weren't registered in early generations? not sure.


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Hi im really confused about the whole registered breeding thing.I just looked on a breeders website,on this forum and they are breeding registered cats,a particular breed,but they are also crossing this breed with a different one????both parents(of different breed)are registered,but kittens i presume cant be as mixed breed?Is this an acceptable thing?or can they somehow be registered,There is so much to look into,and i have had a few brain cells die on me since the kids,any advice/info on this appreciated.


I'm confused Clare-which different breeds are you talking about and then we'll be able to answer correctly-but it is confusing i agree


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I would be interested to know the different breeds too


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Didnt want to name any one or anything!!the post above half answered my question though!


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Didnt want to name any one or anything!!the post above half answered my question though!


Why not??Is this like a trick question-coz now i am even more confusedAre you on about Chrissy's site?


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

What mine????? dont think so.................

Which post above


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> What mine????? dont think so.................
> 
> Which post above


Dunno-must be like a teatime teaser or somet


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Can't be mine, pmsl cos I have nothing but Persian longhairs and one neutered moggie


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

First post back stated that bengal x oriental shorthair produces first generation serangeti,so what would bengal x british shorthair produce?


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I think she is talking about the breeder getting the new bengal. I think she has crossed breeds. Well, her website gives than impression, I could wrong.


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

A BenghairYour asking the wrong person Clare-know a little about Siamese and even then i check with my smartass oh


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think she is talking about the breeder getting the new bengal. I think she has crossed breeds. Well, her website gives than impression, I could wrong.


Which oneTheirs a couple


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I think I know who Clare means just been on the website


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Your all eevill you lot
Anyway-don't wanna play if ya not gonna play niceAHa-think i know...is it..Doesn't matter coz i still don't know what breed/crossbreed you'd get so what do i care-it's not me, anything else Clare


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Anyways why don't you just ask her straight out-she'll be able to put you straight or learn something she may not knowJust a thought


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

A Bengal crossed with A britsh short hair will give you................

A kitten that is hald bengal, half british shorthair 

That's it!!! The kittens can NOT be registered because they are not pedigree cats even if their parents are. Nothing but cross breeds.

From my lack of knowedge the bengal x oriental is the only breeds i know that can reistered the off spring. and it must be an oriental, not a siamese.


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

A kitten that is hald bengal, half british shorthair
Thats what i said-a benghair


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I think people sometimes maybe have a litter of cross breds moggies to see if they are the right sort of person to breed, before spending loads on pedigree active registered cats. However, it seems pointless to cross breed when you have two pedigree cats. 

But yes as Kelly says why don't you just ask the person! Only they can tell you why.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for that was curious


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Right well-glad we cleared that one up for you


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think people sometimes maybe have a litter of cross breds moggies to see if they are the right sort of person to breed, before spending loads on pedigree active registered cats. However, it seems pointless to cross breed when you have two pedigree cats.
> 
> But yes as Kelly says why don't you just ask the person! Only they can tell you why.


Was curious as advertising on gccf reg website, selling reg pedigree kittens.Didnt know if this produced a new recognized breed or just a bit naughty!!


----------



## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

what about Ragdolls with birmans?? dont worry iv only got ragdolls, but i am sure i have seen a breeder that cross breeds and the kittens are suposed to be registered ??


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Ragman


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

yukk that doesnt sound very appealing,got visions of dirty old tramp!!


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> yukk that doesnt sound very appealing,got visions of dirty old tramp!!


Theirs always 1 isn't their Clare


----------



## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

lol ...........................


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Hi im really confused about the whole registered breeding thing.I just looked on a breeders website,on this forum and they are breeding registered cats,a particular breed,but they are also crossing this breed with a different one????both parents(of different breed)are registered,but kittens i presume cant be as mixed breed?Is this an acceptable thing?or can they somehow be registered,There is so much to look into,and i have had a few brain cells die on me since the kids,any advice/info on this appreciated.


Yes mixed breed kittens can be registered, they just go on the reference register. All new breeds start this way - at least with the GCCF.

Liz


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> First post back stated that bengal x oriental shorthair produces first generation serangeti,so what would bengal x british shorthair produce?


Moggies - in short.

Liz


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi LizAny ideas on crossbreed names


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

That's how Persian exotics started just to add my two pence worth, lol


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Was curious as advertising on gccf reg website, selling reg pedigree kittens.Didnt know if this produced a new recognized breed or just a bit naughty!!


what gccf website? they don't advertise kittens on there? do they?

My current kitten who I am getting in 24days! is on the reference register. which means she can not be shown with the gccf.

Very confusing.

Anyways if people want to cross then so be it.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> A Bengal crossed with A britsh short hair will give you................
> 
> A kitten that is hald bengal, half british shorthair
> 
> ...


No, any cross breed can be registered, I had registration papers back for such a cat just three days ago. And at least until recently (it may have changed) you could also register half pedigrees where the father was an unknown Moggy. I know because I've done it.

Liz


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Borthairs?? (bengal x british shorthaired)


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> That's how Persian exotics started just to add my two pence worth, lol


Why stop at twopence Chrissy-spend the whole £1 love Knock yourself out
Borthairs?? (bengal x british shorthaired)
__________________Lol


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

lizward said:


> No, any cross breed can be registered, I had registration papers back for such a cat just three days ago. And at least until recently (it may have changed) you could also register half pedigrees where the father was an unknown Moggy. I know because I've done it.
> 
> Liz


I s this through gccf or tica or something else??


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> No, any cross breed can be registered, I had registration papers back for such a cat just three days ago. And at least until recently (it may have changed) you could also register half pedigrees where the father was an unknown Moggy. I know because I've done it.
> 
> Liz


Ok Sorry. We tried to register our boys as half bred, well their breeder did but some reason they wouldn't! Never mind.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Hi LizAny ideas on crossbreed names


Well my favourite is the Burmilla


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> I s this through gccf or tica or something else??


GCCF. Liz


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Why stop at twopence Chrissy-spend the whole £1 love Knock yourself out
> Borthairs?? (bengal x british shorthaired)
> __________________Lol


Cos i'm skint till payday


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Right Fluffy-you are now dismissed to go hang your head in shame young lady


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Ok Sorry. We tried to register our boys as half bred, well their breeder did but some reason they wouldn't! Never mind.


What was the other half, were both parents active register, and was it the GCCF?

Liz


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

is that a burmese x chinchilla ?


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> My current kitten who I am getting in 24days! is on the reference register. which means she can not be shown with the gccf.
> 
> Very confusing.


What is she?


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> What was the other half, were both parents active register, and was it the GCCF?
> 
> Liz


Mum active siamese gccf, dad big farm moggie not worried now, I think the breeder made a boo boo. Didn't matter to me I think it was her who wanted to register them on the ref reg.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> is that a burmese x chinchilla ?


Yes, except now you can only bring a chinchilla in if you then go five generations. Which is a pity because I have a first and a second generation Burmilla and I still love the first generation.


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

is that a burmese x chinchilla ?
So that would be a..BumChilla
Sorry-i'll behave now Only coz i have to go and feed human kids


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> What is she?


A cat!!!! (sorry )

An oriental black, both parents are bi colours though so as she is not, she is actually classed as a black cat of oriental apperance! poor thing. It's ok though as I will be showing her with tica. So long as she is mated to an oriental bi colour her kittens can be gccf reg!


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Mum active siamese gccf, dad big farm moggie not worried now, I think the breeder made a boo boo. Didn't matter to me I think it was her who wanted to register them on the ref reg.


It may be that you can't register half moggies any more, I did wonder when I looked at the registration form, it certainly used to be possible but it is ten years or more since I have tried.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Or a bumchin!!


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Right Fluffy-you are now dismissed to go hang your head in shame young lady


sorry


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Certainly when breeds start, the gene pool can be so small that other breeds that complement the breed can be used to widen the gene pool. These are known as permissible outcrosses and have been agreed upon by cat councils.

I will be outcrossing with my Selkirk Rex queen. Permissible outcrosses include the BSH, the Exotic and the Persian. Because I don't want to breed long haired pussy cats I will be using a BSH stud. The curly coated offspring from this mating will be (funnily enough!) Curly Coated Selkirk Rex kittens. The straight haired kittens will be Selkirk Rex Variants.

Similarly I can take my BSH queen to a Selkirk Rex stud (straight haired or curly) and produce Selkirk Rex kittens.

Personally I wouldn't advise experimenting with crossing breeds. Who knows what genetic problems you could encounter.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> Certainly when breeds start, the gene pool can be so small that other breeds that complement the breed can be used to widen the gene pool. These are known as permissible outcrosses and have been agreed upon by cat councils.
> 
> I will be outcrossing with my Selkirk Rex queen. Permissible outcrosses include the BSH, the Exotic and the Persian. Because I don't want to breed long haired pussy cats I will be using a BSH stud. The curly coated offspring from this mating will be (funnily enough!) Curly Coated Selkirk Rex kittens. The straight haired kittens will be Selkirk Rex Variants.
> 
> ...


You are far too clever


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Well.

Of course.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

God that is so complicated!all the do`s and donts how on earth do you remember everything!!Do you need any degrees or diplomas to manage all of this


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I will be outcrossing with my Selkirk Rex queen. Permissible outcrosses include the BSH, the Exotic and the Persian. Because I don't want to breed long haired pussy cats 

.........................and just what do you not like about long haired pussies?  pmsl


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Hence why I am focusing on one breed. Less to remember! LOL, and Bengals looks really hard to learn about. Wouldn't have a clue about them. I like to look at them at shows but don't know nothing about patterns and all this F1 F3 F6 business. LOL. I know it's generations etc... but that's it, well I think that's what it means


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Its over my head also!


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> and just what do you not like about long haired pussies?


 How did I know you were going to say that?! Douglas sneezes like anything with long haired cats so we have to stick to short haired cats.



> all this F1 F3 F6 business. LOL. I know it's generations etc... but that's it, well I think that's what it means


Yes, that's what it means. The number represents the number of generations removed from the Asian Leopard Cat the Bengal is, and the F stands for 'filial' which means 'of sons'.


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

This is really interesting stuff girls!! i always wondered what the f2 thing meant.Had a look on savannah site,they are incredible!! are there many in homes in uk yet??how big do they get?


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> How did I know you were going to say that?! Douglas sneezes like anything with long haired cats so we have to stick to short haired cats.
> 
> Yes, that's what it means. The number represents the number of generations removed from the Asian Leopard Cat the Bengal is, and the F stands for 'filial' which means 'of sons'.


 cool , thanks!!


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

No I don't think there are many (if any) in homes in the UK.

They get THIS BIG!!!

[.......................]


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> How did I know you were going to say that?! Douglas sneezes like anything with long haired cats so we have to stick to short haired cats.
> 
> Yes, that's what it means. The number represents the number of generations removed from the Asian Leopard Cat the Bengal is, and the F stands for 'filial' which means 'of sons'.


Any excuse Nicola, lol. Don't blame poor ole Doug, you just wouldnt want all the grooming 

I know quite a lot about Bengals too, it somehow got brainwashed in to me head somewhere, someplace  They are a cool cat tho


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> I know quite a lot about Bengals too, it somehow got brainwashed in to me head somewhere, someplace


Well.. there were only a few people there and they were almost all Bengal breeders so I'm not surprised you had spots before your eyes. This place is much better balanced with a far wider audience to chat to.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

This much is true


----------



## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I have a UK Gr Pr Oriental Black who is 7 generations from a half siamese, who's Mother was born to a tortie under a gooseberry bush in someones garden  

The lady who bought the half siamese wanted to have a litter of kittens with her so that her grown up children could have a kitten each. She wanted to do it properly so that the cat was safe so rather than just let her out to mate with the local tom she found a siamese breeder (she had always owned pet siamese) who would take in her moggie. 

When the kittens were born naturally because the Mother carried the cs gene instead of the litter of black she was expecting out popped a black, a chocolate self and 4 siamese type kittens. They were so surprised by the 4 siamese type they rang the GCCF who explained that if she registered the Mother on the reference register and took the offspring to siamese or oriental studs down each generation in 6 (I think) generations she would have a showable pedigree cat. Which is what she did and the rest is history. 

Its a long haul, but you do end up with a line with potentially a bit of hybrid vigour behind it.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

That's interested. But need pics of your oriental black  Love them.


----------



## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok, hope this isn't too many 

UK Gr Pr Moralyn Theophilus aka Theo - in xmas attire










what he really thought of the hat










Ch Saikou Theodore - aka Ted










Gr Pr Saikou Prince Bagheera aka Baggy


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

*faints*

STUNNING, I adore the last pic


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

What handsome boys!


----------



## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

What is the difference with the orientals and siamese? Orientals look slightly larger and more firm (if that makes sense) and siamese have the points....but thats about as much as I know unless I research...but would much prefer to chat here and find out...


----------



## staceyscats1 (Feb 17, 2008)

????? ok just read this thread clair are you talking about me in regards to this thread ?????????


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> What is the difference with the orientals and siamese? Orientals look slightly larger and more firm (if that makes sense) and siamese have the points....but thats about as much as I know unless I research...but would much prefer to chat here and find out...


I would like to know more about this


----------



## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Saikou said:


> Ok, hope this isn't too many
> 
> UK Gr Pr Moralyn Theophilus aka Theo - in xmas attire
> 
> ...


Stunning cats !!! how lovely to see a picture of Baggy again


----------



## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I don't think there is much difference really, some siamese are long and lithe as are some orientals and the heavier set lot come in both forms as well. The typier show quality versions of both tend to be the longer, lithe versions, although not always. 

Siamese have two genes which restrict their colour to their points, Orientals have at least one gene that means they are self coloured all over.

Siamese have blue eyes and orientals have green eyes - except foreign whites that have blue eyes, but then although they are classed as orientals they are really white siamese.

The SOP for both breeds is very similar if not the same.


----------



## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saikou said:


> I don't think there is much difference really, some siamese are long and lithe as are some orientals and the heavier set lot come in both forms as well. The typier show quality versions of both tend to be the longer, lithe versions, although not always.
> 
> Siamese have two genes which restrict their colour to their points, Orientals have at least one gene that means they are self coloured all over.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that! So although I didnt ask my Q as technical as you answered it I wasnt far off the mark! Never was good at expressing my thoughts haha.xx


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Saikou said:


> I don't think there is much difference really, some siamese are long and lithe as are some orientals and the heavier set lot come in both forms as well. The typier show quality versions of both tend to be the longer, lithe versions, although not always.
> 
> Siamese have two genes which restrict their colour to their points, Orientals have at least one gene that means they are self coloured all over.
> 
> ...


Thank you Saikou


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

.......and your cats are beautiful


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Is this your baggy? YouTube - Baggy

so cute


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Ok, hope this isn't too many
> 
> UK Gr Pr Moralyn Theophilus aka Theo - in xmas attire
> 
> ...


OMGStunning boys Kim-a treat to see pics


----------



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

WOW amazing looking cats!!! Gorgeous!


----------



## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> Is this your baggy? YouTube - Baggy
> 
> so cute


Yes, that's him  he looks quite young in that one. I think he has quite a few videos out there.

Thank you for all your nice comments about my cats


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Yes, that's him  he looks quite young in that one. I think he has quite a few videos out there.
> 
> Thank you for all your nice comments about my cats


He's famous, i've seen quite a few of his videos...does that mean that the gourgeous Alaska it's yours? Love watching cats on youtube....how sad


----------



## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I don't own Baggy anymore, I bred him, he is owned by a friend of mine. Alaska is indeed his adopted sister. She is amazing and has the most fabulous character.


----------



## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

they're both gorgeous cats


----------



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

I love the name Baggy! 
Gives me some inspiration on names ..........................


----------

