# Coronavirus outbreak



## kimthecat

It seems this is spreading. I'm a bit worried as I'm immunocompromised due to the meds I take. I shall have to start wearing a mask


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## Boxer123

I know scary stuff hearing Trump say it was under control did not reassure me.


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## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> I know scary stuff hearing Trump say it was under control did not reassure me.


I think they've only had one case in the US so far. Its unfortunate it's the Chinese New Year and many Chinese are traveling abroad.


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## Boxer123

Well it seems to have overtaken Prince Harry on the news coverage this morning.


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## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> It seems this is spreading. I'm a bit worried as I'm immunocompromised due to the meds I take. I shall have to start wearing a mask


I think these days you're probably more in danger of being infected by Dengue than you are by the Coronavirus, but because it's been around for such a long time no one even mentions it (Having been infected, I can tell you it's not very pleasant)!

If you remember when we had all the hysteria about Ebola in the UK? In the end how many people actually caught it? Not very many!

https://reliefweb.int/report/world/who-scales-response-worldwide-surge-dengue

*WHO scales up response to worldwide surge in dengue*


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## Happy Paws2

In they are over panicking, I'm still more lightly to get hit by lighting than caught it over here.


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## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> I
> If you remember when we had all the hysteria about Ebola in the UK? In the end how many people actually caught it? Not very many!


perhaps because they took strict precautions?



Happy Paws2 said:


> In they are over panicking, I'm still more lightly to get hit by lighting than caught it over here.


So you think they should ignore it. ?


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## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> I think they've only had one case in the US so far. Its unfortunate it's the Chinese New Year and many Chinese are traveling abroad.


Surely if it's so bad China should shut down all airports, no coming in or leaving the country until the virus is no longer spreading?


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## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Surely if it's so bad China should shut down all airports, no coming in or leaving the country until the virus is no longer spreading?


 So far they have shut down the two cities involved.


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## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> So far they have shut down the two cities involved.


Ah good, hopefully then its the start of it coming under control.


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## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Ah good, hopefully then its the start of it coming under control.


 The UK is monitoring flights from China so that will help. While it is not as serious as some other diseases , the worry is it might mutate. Better safe than sorry.


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## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> The UK is monitoring flights from China so that will help. While it is not as serious as some other diseases , the worry is it might mutate. Better safe than sorry.


Oh deffinantly better safe than sorry. Though personally I still think there should be no flights in and out of China until its sorted, but I am aware that I am rather OTT when it comes to this kinda thing.


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## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Oh deffinantly better safe than sorry. Though personally I still think there should be no flights in and out of China until its sorted, but I am aware that I am rather OTT when it comes to this kinda thing.


I agree with you about the flights. They may well do this. I'm OTT to about this too.


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## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> So far they have shut down the two cities involved.


They did, but that felt a little like shutting the stable door whilst watching the horse's ass.

Typical Chinese reluctance to admit anything is wrong in China I guess.


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## Calvine

My Chinese neighbour was head-hunted and she and her family went off to Shanghai in December . . . another guy I know with a Chinese wife debating whether to cancel their trip to China in March.


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## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> the two cities involved.


Which cities are they?


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## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> Which cities are they?


 It seems it'd three now 
Wuhan, Ezhou and Huanggang

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...preads-in-china-with-three-cities-in-lockdown


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## HarlequinCat

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-outbreak-latest-symptoms-virus-a9298036.html

According to the Independent there are 4 cases found in Scotland. And I cant find the article now, but I've read they are concerned it has mutated

"A handful people in Scotland are being tested for the coronavirus, Edinburgh University's head of infection medicine, Professor Jurgen Haas, told the BBC.

All are displaying flu-like symptoms and have been in Wuhan in the past 14 days."


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## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> It seems it'd three now


 Thank you!


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## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> perhaps because they took strict precautions?
> 
> So you think they should ignore it. ?


I didn't say that.


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## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I didn't say that.


I think you quoted my reply to magyarmum by mistake.


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## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> I think you quoted my reply to magyarmum by mistake.


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## Happy Paws2

Just to put it some kind preventive on average of 600 people die from flu and it's complications in the UK every year.


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## cheekyscrip

I am currently displaying flu like symptoms...feel like shutting down...


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## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> I am currently displaying flu like symptoms...feel like shutting down...


Im sorry to hear that. I hope you feel better soon.


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## Magyarmum

https://www.livescience.com/new-chi...9NYs1O__93AiHPhVGhBftznI1sxTwnodTvRCKUNj3bbbD

*New coronavirus from China: Everything you need to know*


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## rona

The same happened in 2013 in Saudi Arabia with 300+ deaths, with at least one in France. It went on through virtually the whole of 2013.

It also seems that The UK government was well aware of this outbreak before it hit the press and have been working to lower risk 
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/wuhan-novel-coronavirus


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## kimthecat

There's a suspected case at my local hospital , its close to heathrow airport and also a university so I assume they are prepared .


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## catz4m8z

TBF though as scary as it is we are probably due a pandemic soon! Given the amount of people in the world and how well bugs can adapt.


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## kimthecat

It seems the suspected cases arent Coronavirus. So far so good though there have been 3 cases in France and one in Australia.


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## cat001

I got ill the day after I got back from South Africa, which was also the day after my sister got back from China (she lives in Dongguan). While in South Africa, some of our group did get a cold, one also developed viral meningitis and was in hospital for 4 days. I think I probably caught my cold while in SA, or maybe at the airport as there was a fair bit of sneezing going on, and developed it over the flight home, with full symptoms the day after getting back. My sisters friend also came back from China with her and was recommended to get tested when he reached UK as he apparently had a fever, he stayed over at ours for the night (with me getting sick the following day). I've not heard directly what his results were but I assume they came back negative and he just had a cold like me.


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## havoc

To put the risk in context_, _this is from just over a month ago_. _For our 'ordinary' annual flu there have to be hundreds of confirmed, hospitalised cases and a number of deaths before our NHS is permitted to prescribe antivirals and nobody starts a panic.

_Public Health England said the number of flu cases confirmed in hospitals in the week to 8 December was 472, up from 330 the week before. There were 124 new admissions to intensive care or high-dependency units for flu, up from 80 the week before.

There were eight deaths in intensive care units in the week to 8 December where flu was a factor - the highest number this season and taking the total death toll for the UK to 15 over a nine-week period.

In an alert to NHS bosses and GPs, Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer at the Department of Health and Social Care, said: "Surveillance data indicates an increase in influenza cases in the community. Prescribers may now prescribe and pharmacists may now supply antiviral medicines for the prophylaxis and treatment of influenza at NHS expense."_


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## Magyarmum




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## margy

Much as I feel sorry for the Chinese having this awful virus amongst them I think their eating habits leave a lot to be desired. That food market selling wildlife, where apparently this virus started looked horrendous. Dirt and blood around. I know their culture is different to ours, I couldn't eat a Koala, or live baby mice, that wasn't pleasant, I wish I could unsee that. But they need to start setting standards.


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## Happy Paws2

cheekyscrip said:


> I am currently displaying flu like symptoms...feel like shutting down...


How are you today, hope you are are feeling better.


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## kimthecat

margy said:


> Much as I feel sorry for the Chinese having this awful virus amongst them I think their eating habits leave a lot to be desired. That food market selling wildlife, where apparently this virus started looked horrendous. Dirt and blood around. I know their culture is different to ours, I couldn't eat a Koala, or live baby mice, that wasn't pleasant, I wish I could unsee that. But they need to start setting standards.


The local markets sell live animals . They also eat live animals such as baby mice and bats though I dont know how common that is. .


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## cheekyscrip

Happy Paws2 said:


> How are you today, hope you are are feeling better.


Thank you, better now...

Situation in China seems to be more serious than they let on...
Seems British companies I know asked their employees to work from home for time being.

Sorry can't provide details.


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## stuaz

cheekyscrip said:


> Thank you, better now...
> 
> *Situation in China seems to be more serious than they let on...*
> Seems British companies I know asked their employees to work from home for time being.
> 
> Sorry can't provide details.


The Chinese government hiding things... no that can't be true! Next you will be saying Russia isn't a democracy!

Your talking crazy talk now Cheeky!


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## kimthecat

It seems live animal markets are wide spread.
There is a link here about them . There are no horrible photos or anything.

https://blog.humanesociety.org/2020...medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=humanenation


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## Calvine

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...nd-China-amid-growing-coronavirus-crisis.html

Apologies if someone posted this already ^^^


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## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...nd-China-amid-growing-coronavirus-crisis.html
> 
> Apologies if someone posted this already ^^^


Its breaking news, Apart from the health issue, one reason for stopping flights direct is the cost effect . Its not financially viable to fly planes there as they wont have many passengers. 
Im glad they are a taking all these precautions, as has been said , ordinary flu causes deaths etc and fill hospitals so we dont need the extra burden of an unknown flu on the NHS . So many ops etc are cancelled each where when there is cold weather and /or flu outbreak.


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## Calvine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51325192


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## HarlequinCat

Calvine said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51325192


Just about to post this. If there are 2 confirmed cases I'm sure there will be more that has gone undetected at the moment.


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## kimthecat

Oh dear.  It says we are well prepared so fingers crossed it will be contained.


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## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> Oh dear.  It says we are well prepared so fingers crossed it will be contained.


Hopefully so, we can do things ourselves too. Avoid going out if we are feeling ill, even the flu can be bad for certain people. Wash hands often and after going shopping etc, touching handrails in public places could be avoided.

Cough and sneeze into tissues, then bin them. Sanitise door handles. Just very good hygiene will help.

It seems to affect the young and old the most so I think doing all this would help them


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## Happy Paws2

HarlequinCat said:


> Hopefully so, we can do things ourselves too. Avoid going out if we are feeling ill, even the flu can be bad for certain people. Wash hands often and after going shopping etc, touching handrails in public places could be avoided.
> 
> Cough and sneeze into tissues, then bin them.* Sanitise door handles*. Just very good hygiene will help.
> 
> It seems to affect the young and old the most so I think doing all this would help them


And take some thing to Sanitise supermarket shopping trollies or basket handles. It's something OH always does in the cold and flu season.


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## Beth78

Have they found how it is spread ?


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## Psygon

Calvine said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51325192


I live in Newcastle where these two people have been hospitalised.

Just walked through our town centre and saw quite a few people in face masks...

The hospital trust has put out a statement urging people to keep coming to their normal hospital appointments...

I guess the people in Newcastle are worried...


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## HarlequinCat

Psygon said:


> I live in Newcastle where these two people have been hospitalised.
> 
> Just walked through our town centre and saw quite a few people in face masks...
> 
> The hospital trust has put out a statement urging people to keep coming to their normal hospital appointments...
> 
> I guess the people in Newcastle are worried...


As long as these 2 are quarantined Newcastle should be safe.

They were Chinese Holidaying in York, so anyone who think may have come into contact with them should get in touch with the authorities.

Surprisingly the Hotel is open still. They have only sealed off the room and rooms next to it. You think they would have shut it and given it a deep clean. Or try and work out if any of the cleaners have cleaned their room, touched any surfaces


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## stuaz

Beth78 said:


> Have they found how it is spread ?


The usual way things like flu would, sneezes, coughs, bodily fluids, surfaces that have those things on.

It's not something to worry about at the moment.


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## mrs phas

we're playing a waiting game here
my son is off to japan on 15th march, a trip that hes saved 4 yrs for, and, hell be travelling the length and some of the breadth of the main island
so far theyve had about 100 cases, non fatal and so we are hopeful it will go ahead
hes stocking up on facemasks anyway, as some trains, areas and towns you can actually be fined for not wearing one as a normality, but they, like china, are going through panic buying and lack of stock because of it


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## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> we're playing a waiting game here
> my son is off to japan on 15th march, a trip that hes saved 4 yrs for, and, hell be travelling the length and some of the breadth of the main island
> so far theyve had about 100 cases, non fatal and so we are hopeful it will go ahead
> hes stocking up on facemasks anyway, as some trains, areas and towns you can actually be fined for not wearing one as a normality, but they, like china, are going through panic buying and lack of stock because of it


One of my grandsons is studying in Hong Kong. It's all rather worrying first with all the riots and now the Coronavirus. I haven't heard from either him or his mum so I'm just hoping he's OK!


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## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> One of my grandsons is studying in Hong Kong. It's all rather worrying first with all the riots and now the Coronavirus. I haven't heard from either him or his mum so I'm just hoping he's OK!


 Yes, my son's friend is (or was?) in Hong Kong and apparently when the riots started they were all sent home, students and lecturers alike and told not to come back until they got the all-clear. The riots were very violent. So he flew over here before Christmas - not sure what's happening now, think he went back before the flu outbreak.

I was on the train this morning and saw a guy who appeared to have the biggest nose I ever saw - just like Pinnochio in fact. On closer inspection, it was like a prosthetic nose attached to the end of his own nose with Elastoplast. I'm guessing it was some sort of anti-flu device.


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## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> I was on the train this morning and saw a guy who appeared to have the biggest nose I ever saw - just like Pinnochio in fact. On closer inspection, it was like a prosthetic nose attached to the end of his own nose with Elastoplast. I'm guessing it was some sort of anti-flu device.


well, Ive seen face masks...but Ive never seen something like that!octor
Seems like it really isnt any different then the flu TBH, just has a greater potential for infection as nobody will have any immunity to a new virus (although the flu is dangerous enough if you are young, old or sick).
Hopefully it will cause China to look at their cruel practice of selling live wild animals in markets as it seems to be a breeding ground for bacteria.


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## havoc

HarlequinCat said:


> They were Chinese Holidaying in York,


I've got a report on my newsfeed saying one of them is a student at York. Is this fake news?


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## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Hopefully it will cause China to look at their cruel practice of selling live wild animals in markets as it seems to be a breeding ground for bacteria.


pig flu and bird flu didnt teach them anything
but
through history, animals have been the 'originators' of many diseases that cross the species barrier, and, could possibly, or have become, worldwide epidemics
sars is thought to be an animal virus from an as-yet-uncertain animal reservoir, but possibly bats
zika was mosquitos
AIDS is believed to have originated through the eatng of non human primate bush meat ( although scientists are still arguing over it, thats the most common theory ive been seeing)
fleas on rats spread bubonic plague, which in humans could turn into pneumonic, which was then spread through air by couching, snotting, sweating etc
the 'spanish' flu pandemic that is believed to have killed 50 million worlds population, after the 1st world war, is now believed to have been rooted in east asia and has genes of bird origin and whilst obviously the gene route of the spanish flu has been extensively investigated and even sythasized, there is still no great understnading of why it was especially devestating amongsth the, otherwise healthy, 20-40 years of age, group
many epidemics and pandemics have had their roots in animals,and for 1000's of years theyve evolved to live with it, its us humans that like to mess with them and end up, because our immune systems have never seen them before, dying

maybe vegans have the right idea after all


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## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I've got a report on my newsfeed saying one of them is a student at York. Is this fake news?


nope, its, so far, undisputed
but we all know how the newspapers like to scaremnger


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## mrs phas

@havoc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51337400


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## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> well, Ive seen face masks...but Ive never seen something like that!octor


 There was a little boy with his gran who kept pointing and trying to say ''Gran, what's that man . . . ?'' and she kept covering his mouth with her hand and shushing him and trying not to laugh. He just thought the guy had a huge hooter!


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## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> There was a little boy with his gran who kept pointing and trying to say ''Gran, what's that man . . . ?'' and she kept covering his mouth with her hand and shushing him and trying not to laugh. He just thought the guy had a huge hooter!


May have been a temporary prosthetic for someone with facial cancer


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## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> One of my grandsons is studying in Hong Kong. It's all rather worrying first with all the riots and now the Coronavirus. I haven't heard from either him or his mum so I'm just hoping he's OK!


 My son's friend is at university in Hong Kong . . . first they were sent home before Christmas because of the riots; now apparently the lectures are being done via Skype because of the Coronavirus, and still partly because of the riots.


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## Happy Paws2

When is BJ sending a plane to fetch our people home. I know they will have to be in quarantine when they get back, but better have them here than leave them over there.


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## grumpy goby

I’m meant to be booking flights back for Xmas, a long way off but the cheapest Routes are via China or Hong Kong.. do I take the risk and hope it’s under control by December!! 
(It’s a large enough $ difference and we wanted a stop over en route home... I don’t fancy Dubai!)


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## mrs phas

Whilst everyone is panicking about coronovirus 19, or whatever its called now, its worth looking at some perspective
In the 2018-2019 flu season, according to the
CDC, 34,000 people died in the USA alone.
The WHO estimated that between 290,000 and 650,000, people die of the flu, worldwide, anually.
That's the 'normal' flu, the one the WHO/CDC/NHS and whomever else, scientists look at, each year, to decide what vaccine to make available
Coronovirus 19 is no more 'deadly' than flu, same guidelines have been given re babies, elderly and immune compromised, same directions about sneezing, coughing, hand hygiene
The only thing that's really scaring people is there's no immunisation, well not all 'normal' flu is prevented by x years vaccine and it can migrate to a different strain at the last minute
And
The media hype
Put it out nfront of us every 15 minutes that there's a death, and, we don't know if that's a new death or the one they talked about 15 mins ago, and the 15 mins before that, and before that!

edit to add this as I couldnt access it on my stupid phone

https://assets.publishing.service.g...tory_viruses_in_the_UK_2018_to_2019-FINAL.pdf

page 51 gives the table of influenza related deaths since 2014 in the UK
makes surprising reading( or it did to me)


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## havoc

Over half the confirmed cases outside China are on that cruise ship. Hardly running rampant worldwide just yet.


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## catz4m8z

As long as it avoids spreading until abit later in the year. The NHS really isnt equipped to deal with the annual winter bed crisis _and_ new and improved flu!


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## kimthecat

Latest news,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51591091


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## DogLover1981

I'm personally getting sick of hearing about coronavirus and it's definitely being exaggerated by news outlets.


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## mrs phas

15 days on sunday til my son flies to japan, a holiday hes saved three years for, thankfully he listened to me and got good travel insurance, that covers him for illness or travel disruption
According to the news, japan is starting to close schools
my sons manager has been trying to persuade him not to go
of course, son has refused, on the grounds that, the govenment, have not advised any travel restrictions re japan, he has already said IF restrictions are put in pace he will adhere to them
manager was phoning HR after son left today ( he works 5am to 9am), of where he works, to see if there is anything they can do to stop him travelling, and, if not, what recourse they have against son, if son is quarantined whether out there, or, when he comes home, and, they have to put others on extra hours, because of it
Son works in the warehouse of a frozen food store ( not the one mums go to), so not exactly somewhere where his abscence is world threatening
if manager carries on, i will be advising son, who is too soft for his own good, to take it to union, on grounds of bullying


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## Happy Paws2

Is your son in a Union, that's when they are worth been in one.


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## havoc

Unless govt advice changes to ‘do not travel’ his insurance will not pay for cancellation so unless work are prepared to reimburse him for the cost of the trip his manager is out of luck.


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## Calvine

DogLover1981 said:


> it's definitely being exaggerated by news outlets.


I guess the Megxit, Prince Andrew/Phillip Schofield/Caroline Flack headlines have had their day so the flu is all that's left for them to salivate over. Even saying that men with beards should shave them if they are wearing a mask and just have a Hitler-type moustache.


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## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I guess the Megxit, Prince Andrew/Phillip Schofield/Caroline Flack headlines have had their day so the flu is all that's left for them to salivate over. Even saying that men with beards should shave them if they are wearing a mask and just have a Hitler-type moustache.


Donny boy says it'll all go away as soon as the weather gets warmer so there's really nothing to worry about because as we all know Donny ALWAYS tells the truth

https://dailyhive.com/seattle/best-tweets-president-trump-coronavirus-twitter

*The best Twitter reactions to Trump's coronavirus update*


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## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> As long as it avoids spreading until abit later in the year. The NHS really isnt equipped to deal with the annual winter bed crisis _and_ new and improved flu!


It would help if the medical staff and orderlies ALL used the hand cleaner at the end of patients' bed before touching them too 

Porters too - as they are working all over the hospital transporting patients between departments and through public areas.

Even if they're doing it just before appearing at the bedside (and I know a lot aren't) they should be setting a good example and showing the patient/visitors they are following protocol.

Only 50% of the time are the cannula sterilising protocols being followed when attaching IV's to OH 

The sick are one of the vulnerable groups


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## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I guess the Megxit, Prince Andrew/Phillip Schofield/Caroline Flack headlines have had their day so the flu is all that's left for them to salivate over. Even saying that men with beards should shave them if they are wearing a mask and just have a Hitler-type moustache.


Apparently, unless wearing a proper full face military style mask, they're a waste of time as the virus can enter the system through membranes in our eyes!


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## havoc

There were a couple of people wearing masks on the tube yesterday - the rubbish ones. Except they’re not completely rubbish as they can, while dry, prevent the person wearing them from passing the virus on to others. Knowing that’s the only use I was very wary of them.


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## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Apparently, unless wearing a proper full face military style mask, they're a waste of time as the virus can enter the system through membranes in our eyes!


 We are clearly doomed!


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## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> We are clearly doomed!


Don't worry! Climate change will get us first!


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## catz4m8z

Lurcherlad said:


> It would help if the medical staff and orderlies ALL used the hand cleaner at the end of patients' bed before touching them too


Im not a big fan of those alcohol gel cleansers...much prefer washing my hands properly with soap and water! (also if you work with detoxing alcoholic patients its not unheard of for them to just drink all your hand cleansers!LOL:Hilarious).

Pretty sure that much like climate change a pandemic is inevitable at this point. It happens within other species all over the world (trees and frogs spring to my mind) so of course it will happen to human beings too. The papers really dont help with the scaremongering though...:Shifty


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## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> Im not a big fan of those alcohol gel cleansers...much prefer washing my hands properly with soap and water! (also if you work with detoxing alcoholic patients its not unheard of for them to just drink all your hand cleansers!LOL:Hilarious).
> 
> Pretty sure that much like climate change a pandemic is inevitable at this point. It happens within other species all over the world (trees and frogs spring to my mind) so of course it will happen to human beings too. The papers really dont help with the scaremongering though...:Shifty


When my mum was in hospital she had C diff we were all told not to rely on the alcohol cleansers and to wash hand with soap and water.

There does seem to be a lot of hysteria with coronavirus, chief medical officer warning schools may have to be closed, festivals cancelled etc but I suppose he has been asked the question what would happen* if* there should be a pandemic. The way it is reported sounds as though every time a kid sneezes in school or someone coughs in the doctors waiting room those building must go into lock down


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## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> There does seem to be a lot of hysteria with coronavirus, chief medical officer warning schools may have to be closed, festivals cancelled etc but I suppose he has been asked the question what would happen* if* there should be a pandemic.


They know it's going to get worse before it gets better but if they can delay the 'peak' and push it back to the spring hospitals will be in a better state to deal with it. We are in normal flu season/winter woes which put great pressure on medical services.


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## Guest

It's scary stuff, but I think it'll be ok.

Babies are surviving it and I think that's a positive indicator.

Saying that, I may say differently if I lived in a quarantined area


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## mrs phas

seeeee342 nbnbbb#@80


3dogs2cats said:


> I suppose he has been asked the question what would happen* if* there should be a pandemic.


At the end of the day were not talking apocalyptical, last of the human race, here
We're not going to all wake up and find ourselves in a Mad Max film or Day of the Dead
It's the flu
Generally at this time of year, people, all over the world, get the flu, which makes yearly flu, a pandemic
We're not talking Spanish flu of 1918/19, when 2/3 of the world population, known of at that time, had already been killed from a long nasty protracted war and the rest were suffering from starvation, ill health, poverty etc from the aftermath of it. Spanish flu was just the cherry on the cake in an already ill and unhealthy world, with no antibiotics, drs going from one patient to the next with no thought of hygiene and the poor lain in dying wards, until they did
As I posted before some people die every year from the flu, some people improve their immune systems because of it, most people catch it, feel ill and then carry on with their lives
Which we should all be doing right now
44,000 people worldwide have cought it
5% of those became critically ill
1-2% of those have died
That's a miniscule amount
Not exactly newsworthy is it

Tbh I'm surprised ER and the Greta activists aren't applauding it, after all it's getting rid of the weak and helpless in their dark dank big brother world, maybe it'll bring us a few extra years past 2030


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## Guest

Wooooaaaah, I support Greta without supporting the Coronavirus.

I don't support scaremongering though.


----------



## havoc

AsahiGo said:


> Wooooaaaah, I support Greta without supporting the Coronavirus.
> 
> I don't support scaremongering though.


I don't see it as scaremongering. SARS had a much higher mortality rate and hit the young and healthy. Covid 19 is doing exactly what most much less dangerous viruses do - including seasonal flu which is responsible for hundreds of deaths among the elderly every year here in the UK.


----------



## mrs phas

AsahiGo said:


> Wooooaaaah, I support Greta without supporting the Coronavirus.
> 
> I don't support scaremongering though.


good for you
i see her as a asc child being fed lines and exploited by her parents and the media
we shall agree to differ


----------



## Guest

mrs phas said:


> good for you
> i see her as a asc child being fed lines and exploited by her parents and the media
> we shall agree to differ


Eeeeh easy now, I'll happily differ, she reminds me of my eldest


----------



## Maurey

From the PoV of a person who's from the more medical-adjacent and science side of things, the average person not in an area of outbreak has nothing to worry about, imo. SARS-Cov-9 has a comparatively low infectivity rate, the virus is already seuqenced and a vaccine is on the way, and the mortality rate is pretty dang low. Overall 2%. Nobody under the age of 10 has died, that we know of (which is unusual). People under 40 have only a 0.2% chance of dying to the virus. The mortality risk is only raises significantly, to 8 and 14.8% for people over 70 and 80, respectively. COVID-19 is highly unpleasant, but after a stay in a hospital, and taking it easy, you're more likely to get through it, than not. Also, it's important to note that a lot of that 2% mortality rate is from people in conditions without central heating, in the cold, without easy access to medical care, as well as the elderly, who, unfortunately, don't have as much vitality.

All you really need to do is take normal precautions. Wash your hands regularly, maybe have some hand sanitiser. Don't touch your face. Keep a healthy distance from people who sneeze and cough whenever possible. Take a multivitamin (for the placebo effect, if nothing else :'D). Also, unless face masks make you really feel better, I wouldn't wear 'em, they really don't provide much protection from infections -- the pores are much too big for it to filter out viral particles.


----------



## mrs phas

Maurey said:


> From the PoV of a person who's from the more medical-adjacent and science side of things, the average person not in an area of outbreak has nothing to worry about, imo. SARS-Cov-9 has a comparatively low infectivity rate, the virus is already seuqenced and a vaccine is on the way, and the mortality rate is pretty dang low. Overall 2%. Nobody under the age of 10 has died, that we know of (which is unusual). People under 40 have only a 0.2% chance of dying to the virus. The mortality risk is only raises significantly, to 8 and 14.8% for people over 70 and 80, respectively. COVID-19 is highly unpleasant, but after a stay in a hospital, and taking it easy, you're more likely to get through it, than not. Also, it's important to note that a lot of that 2% mortality rate is from people in conditions without central heating, in the cold, without easy access to medical care, as well as the elderly, who, unfortunately, don't have as much vitality.
> 
> All you really need to do is take normal precautions. Wash your hands regularly, maybe have some hand sanitiser. Don't touch your face. Keep a healthy distance from people who sneeze and cough whenever possible. Take a multivitamin (for the placebo effect, if nothing else :'D). Also, unless face masks make you really feel better, I wouldn't wear 'em, they really don't provide much protection from infections -- the pores are much too big for it to filter out viral particles.


a round of applause is needed for this sane and sensible post


----------



## cheekyscrip

I posted it in Dog Chat:

The best way to protect yourself from Corona virus:

Eat two cloves of garlic every morning.

It might not kill the germs but will keep everyone at safe distance.:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> I posted it in Dog Chat:
> 
> The best way to protect yourself from Corona virus:
> 
> Eat two cloves of garlic every morning.
> 
> It might not kill the germs but will keep everyone at safe distance.:Hilarious


:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

It looks like it is now affecting the world economy , shares dropping etc . lets hope it doesn't lead to another recession.


----------



## westie~ma

First case in Wales is a 20 minute drive from me. Ds works there. 

I have anti viral foam and hand wash regularly. Everyone who came through my front door was told to wash their hands before they did anything else.

Tend to prep, out of convenience (full fridge and freezer, tins etc) but since moving house I've not replenished as I normally would as I'm going to need the space to store furniture. This virus does seem closer now so I've done a proper shop to set us up.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> It looks like it is now affecting the world economy , shares dropping etc . lets hope it doesn't lead to another recession.


The DOW dropped a 1000 points but picked up slightly by closing time on Friday.

POTUS is very worried because if it continues and leads to a recession it could affect his chances of being re-elected which is why he's down playing the seriousness of the epidemic and hoping it will miraculously disappear when the weather gets warmer.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/dow-futures-fall-after-microsoft-issues-coronavirus-warning.html

*Dow plunges 1,100 points, bringing its decline from a record high to more than 10%*

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...leaves-opening-democratic-candidates-n1144721

*Trump's retreat on coronavirus response leaves opening for Democratic candidates*


----------



## DogLover1981

Donald Trump just a had huge rally where he sort of called the coronavirus a hoax. Coronavirus is being overblown by some people and news stations, IMO, but hoax isn't the word I'd choose to describe the situation. O.O I'm not too concerned about the virus personally.


----------



## niamh123

I live in Swansea this week my youngest who is 16 was in school and in her form time lesson a boy came in to class the teacher asked him why he wasn't in school the day before,he had been on holiday to Northern Italy and had only returned home the day before,the teacher called for assistance straight away .The mother was called into the school and was told the boy and his brother should not return to school until mid March,When the news broke yesterday on our local news it was confirmed a man in his 50's had Corona Virus and had strong links to my daughters school Bishop Gore


----------



## Maurey

westie~ma said:


> First case in Wales is a 20 minute drive from me. Ds works there.
> 
> I have anti viral foam and hand wash regularly. Everyone who came through my front door was told to wash their hands before they did anything else.


You seem like you have things well in hand. I'm not sure of the protocol in the UK , but generally what would happen is that after the person who is confirmed is quarantined away in hospital, people in the area are likely to be tested. People in regular close contact with the patient will be offered quarantine for a number of weeks to rule out early stages of infection, regardless of their test results, but they may refuse. With proper organisation, this should be well-contained. Best of luck (and health) to you all.



niamh123 said:


> When the news broke yesterday on our local news it was confirmed a man in his 50's had Corona Virus and had strong links to my daughters school Bishop Gore


That's very unfortunate, I'm sorry to hear that. That being said, I'm sure it'll all be contained if everyone stays on their feet, and people suspected, but not testing positive don't refuse quarantine for the safety of the overall populace. I'm sure that flights to and from France are in the process of either being heavily moderated, or cancelled for the foreseeable future. Make sure to take general health precautions, and stay safe.


----------



## Magyarmum

So far we've had no confirmed cases of Coronavirus in Hungary although PM Orban has said it's inevitable the virus will arrive in the country before too long.

This is the information the government has posted and the steps being taken to minimise the impact.

https://www.kormany.hu/en/prime-min...l-no-reported-cases-of-coronavirus-in-hungary

*There are still no reported cases of coronavirus in Hungary*


----------



## MollySmith

I've been at a meeting this week to plan what happens at the university department I teach at a few days each month and there is a plan in place. It's reassuring and as someone whose immune system is compromised and has had pneumonia (really scary to be honest), I'm relieved but taking wise precautions.

Wash your hands to the song Happy birthday sing twice is the advice I recall from grandparents.

My sister in law works at a hospital in London with a suspected case and sent this link below. She's said not a pandemic and no need for most of us to panic but it is worse than the flu.

My cousin lives in Singapore with her two little ones and said they aren't using masks yet but being very sensible. Staying in as much as possible, no travelling.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lu-covid-19-face-masks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


----------



## MollySmith

Maurey said:


> You seem like you have things well in hand. I'm not sure of the protocol in the UK , but generally what would happen is that after the person who is confirmed is quarantined away in hospital, people in the area are likely to be tested. People in regular close contact with the patient will be offered quarantine for a number of weeks to rule out early stages of infection, regardless of their test results, but they may refuse. With proper organisation, this should be well-contained. Best of luck (and health) to you all.
> 
> That's very unfortunate, I'm sorry to hear that. That being said, I'm sure it'll all be contained if everyone stays on their feet, and people suspected, but not testing positive don't refuse quarantine for the safety of the overall populace. I'm sure that flights to and from France are in the process of either being heavily moderated, or cancelled for the foreseeable future. Make sure to take general health precautions, and stay safe.


It is interesting that people can refuse quarantine. It explains why Zara Phillips didn't have to, if it's still optional. I wonder if one the outcomes of the Government meeting will be to make that compulsory. It's certain compulsory at the university department here. Mind you we work in a large air con building it's like being in a giant airplane with the same air as the windows don't open. Great in a heatwave, horrible in the winter


----------



## cheekyscrip

Cases in Andalusia, so on our doorstep.

Economy will take a hit, hospitality industry, tourism, travel etc....

People will stay home. Shop less.

Only pharmaceutical companies are up and who makes soap...

We had bird flu, swine flu and l think it will be another of those...

I have family member with lung problems so that is a bit of a worry...


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> Cases in Andalusia, so on our doorstep.
> 
> Economy will take a hit, hospitality industry, tourism, travel etc....
> 
> People will stay home. Shop less.
> 
> Only pharmaceutical companies are up and who makes soap...


and face masks!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Having to walk through a very busy hospital every day to visit OH (a chemo patient with a lung infection and a DVT) I’m avoiding close contact with anyone (using stairs rather than be in a lift with germy folk ) and washing/gelling hands every time I’ve touched something. I use the paper hand towel to open doors out of the toilets having washed my hands for example as so many people don’t wash theirs! 

At the start of chemo we were told to avoid surgeries/hospitals/crowds but emergency A&E/admittance trumped that advice - so it’s fingers crossed really.

I still think staff need to follow a stricter regime between patients though.

There are signs at various points throughout the hospital site starting at the car parks telling people who have possible symptoms/concerns not to enter the hospital but instead redirecting them to 111 or a Coronavirus Hub elsewhere on site.


----------



## Boxer123

My mum works on reception in a doctors they have had several people in who have visited infected countries and have coughs. Why on Earth ? Call 111. My mum has really bad asthma and I’m worried about her.


----------



## Maurey

MollySmith said:


> It is interesting that people can refuse quarantine.


It's unfortunate, but I suppose it's an ethics thing. I'd imagine right now, though, after what happened in South Korea, steps may be taken to make it not-so-optional.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.popsci.com/story/health/how-diseases-spread/

*Just how contagious is COVID-19? This chart puts it in perspective.*


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Lurcherlad said:


> Having to walk through a very busy hospital every day to visit OH (a chemo patient with a lung infection and a DVT) I'm avoiding close contact with anyone (using stairs rather than be in a lift with germs folk ) and washing/gelling hands every time I've touched something. I use the paper hand towel to open doors out of the toilets having washed my hands for example as so many people don't wash theirs!
> 
> At the start of chemo we were told to avoid surgeries/hospitals/crowds but emergency A&E/admittance trumped that advice - so it's fingers crossed really.
> 
> I still think staff need to follow a stricter regime between patients though.
> 
> There are signs at various points throughout the hospital site starting at the car parks telling people who have possible symptoms/concerns not to enter the hospital but instead redirecting them to 111 or a Coronavirus Hub elsewhere on site.


Sorry to hijack thread. Hope OH is soon able to shake off the infection and DVT so he can come home.
I've been where you are without coronavirus worry and can't begin to imagine the added strain.


----------



## rona

Well, the first untraceable case (as yet) and caught in this country.
Not a million miles away from me


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Well, the first untraceable case (as yet) and caught in this country


No. The first case caught in this country who has sought medical treatment. There may be others with very mild symptoms who didn't realise they have it.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been visiting hospitals a lot in the last few weeks and still more to come. 

I had to spend two nights in the Gloucester hospital a few weeks back and late on the second night a patient was wheeled in and the curtains closed. Of course they are no sound barrier so I unadshamedly earwigged on what sea being said. It seemed that the patients sister had recently returned from China after a nine month teaching contract and she returned with no idea about the coronovirus as the Chinese authorities were denying the whole thing at the time and there was nothing on official news channels therefore it didn’t exist. The sister had a cold, cough and chest infection which she promptly passed on her sister now in the next bed to me. There was lots of laughter from the nurses about all this and the patient was left to try to sleep
Next morning the day staff took it all more seriously and my room mate was moved to a single bed room for isolation and protocols were put in place over treating her (masks, gowns etc all double wrapped immediately after being in the room and sent for burning). In the meantime I remained in the possibly now infected room whilst a man with a ladder wearing a face mask came to take the curtains down. We stared at each other gloomily.
Eventually I was moved to an area on my own. I was discharged later that day and I queried about possible coronovirus infection from my former roommate. I was told it was unlikely she had as the sister had not been the area where the disease appeared to be coming from, but the lady had been tested and they were waiting on results. If they were positive I would be contacted, no advice about keeping away from others or self isolating, just we’ll let you know if needs be.


----------



## kimthecat

The Holiday Inn near Heathrow airport is being used as a quarantine centre. I don't know if they have any "guests" yet. I'll never go there for dinner again


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> I've been visiting hospitals a lot in the last few weeks and still more to come.
> 
> I had to spend two nights in the Gloucester hospital a few weeks back and late on the second night a patient was wheeled in and the curtains closed. Of course they are no sound barrier so I unadshamedly earwigged on what sea being said. It seemed that the patients sister had recently returned from China after a nine month teaching contract and she returned with no idea about the coronovirus as the Chinese authorities were denying the whole thing at the time and there was nothing on official news channels therefore it didn't exist. The sister had a cold, cough and chest infection which she promptly passed on her sister now in the next bed to me. There was lots of laughter from the nurses about all this and the patient was left to try to sleep
> Next morning the day staff took it all more seriously and my room mate was moved to a single bed room for isolation and protocols were put in place over treating her (masks, gowns etc all double wrapped immediately after being in the room and sent for burning). In the meantime I remained in the possibly now infected room whilst a man with a ladder wearing a face mask came to take the curtains down. We stared at each other gloomily.
> Eventually I was moved to an area on my own. I was discharged later that day and I queried about possible coronovirus infection from my former roommate. I was told it was unlikely she had as the sister had not been the area where the disease appeared to be coming from, but the lady had been tested and they were waiting on results. If they were positive I would be contacted, no advice about keeping away from others or self isolating, just we'll let you know if needs be.


But they should have taken it seriously when she was admitted and not risked everyone else who, being in hospital, were probably more vulnerable to infection than most.

That kind of lackadaisical attitude with some staff in hospitals is what's driving me nuts atm


----------



## Magyarmum

And to make matters worse Turkey has opened the border allowing Syrian refugees to pass into EU countries.

I foresee more trouble ahead

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-west-after-turkey-opens-border-idUSKCN20M0KK

*'Europe is nicer': migrants head west after Turkey opens border*


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> But they should have taken it seriously when she was admitted and not risked everyone else who, being in hospital, were probably more vulnerable to infection than most.
> 
> That kind of lackadaisical attitude with some staff in hospitals is what's driving me nuts atm


I thoroughly agree. She told me that she went to A&E on doctors advice and they hardly seemed bothered. All they did was swab her for flu, didn't seem at all concerned about when she told them about her sister coming home from China. She was admitted into the hospital due to the severe chest infection. She has had a number of illnesses including cancer and is somewhat immunocompromised. This was about 3 weeks ago addmittedly, but I was surprised that no one took her seriously until the day staff came onto the ward


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2345078372261080


----------



## mrs phas

well we may laugh at the precaution of masking the dog
but
https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/28/coronavirus-updates-dog-tests-positive-covid-19-hong-kong-12317727/


----------



## niamh123

I heard about this dog a few days ago on the news


----------



## DogLover1981

DogLover1981 said:


> Donald Trump just a had huge rally where he sort of called the coronavirus a hoax. Coronavirus is being overblown by some people and news stations, IMO, but hoax isn't the word I'd choose to describe the situation. O.O I'm not too concerned about the virus personally.


Donald Trump will apparently be having a press conference soon about coronavirus. I do wonder whether he's trying to undo his comments. lol O.O


----------



## HarlequinCat

One thing to remember is that with the media being a tad overzealous in their reporting, people will start panicking. As has already happened in Japan there could possibly be panic buying. 

Though in Japan they haven't shown all the aisles. Just the very bare ones. Probably the bead, milk or toilet roll aisle! Oddly they are panic buying bottled water too. I dont quite get that one!


----------



## MollySmith

HarlequinCat said:


> One thing to remember is that with the media being a tad overzealous in their reporting, people will start panicking. As has already happened in Japan there could possibly be panic buying.
> 
> Though in Japan they haven't shown all the aisles. Just the very bare ones. Probably the bead, milk or toilet roll aisle! Oddly they are panic buying bottled water too. I dont quite get that one!


Hand gel is sold out here. We have a small bottle in the dog walking bag as wipes aren't good for the environment (not that plastic bottles are good either but there is more use). Oh well!


----------



## purringcats

Hand Gel is sold out here to. Superdrug staff told me they had a delivery on Friday and sold out within 20 minutes. Local supermarket has none either. People are panic buying Hand Gel.


----------



## Maurey

If it's critical, just put Rubbing Alcohol of an appropriate concentration in a spray bottle, should tide you over. Make sure to moisturise though, as it's very drying.


----------



## purringcats

Have they found out what the original source yet? I thought originally authorities in China said it was from black market meat, then I heard that it might have been a snake bite. It is strange how it has passed from animals to humans if animals are the source of the original outbreak.


----------



## Maurey

There's no confirmation yet as to species origin of the virus. There are a few hypotheses, nothing concrete yet, though.


----------



## willa

Hand Gel in all Boots stores, independent Chemists & Tesco / Waitrose in South Kensington, Knightsbridge & Gloucester Road sold out.

Yes, I am paranoid & went into all of those shops to find some. Came away with some antibac hand wipes instead


----------



## catz4m8z

Not sure antibacterial anything will help you with a virus! Best thing is to wash your hands properly with soap and water and avoid touching your face before you do....

and then someone will sneeze on you in the queue in Tesco....:Banghead


----------



## willa

catz4m8z said:


> Not sure antibacterial anything will help you with a virus! Best thing is to wash your hands properly with soap and water and avoid touching your face before you do....
> 
> and then someone will sneeze on you in the queue in Tesco....:Banghead


It's the tubes & buses that I'm paranoid about. Unless I just wear gloves


----------



## Maurey

Anything containing above 90% alcohol WILL kill most bacteria AND viruses. That being said, be very careful, as anything with such a high alcohol content is super flammable.

Realistically, if you want something actually effective, go for alcohol rub, rather than hand sanitizer.

Practically, just take some extra time to wash your hands, and try to consciously remember to not touch your face while not at home. A plaster on a finger may help remind you, if you reach to do it, as you'll feel a strange texture on your face when you reach to touch.


----------



## mrs phas

apparently i might be covered, despite being very immuno compromised
the scientists that be, have found that the drug chloraquine, has had, some, effect against this coronovirus
I have to take a high dose of hydroxychloraquine daily for SLE
not quite the same drug, but, fingers x, its going to be close enough


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> apparently i might be covered, despite being very immuno compromised
> the scientists that be, have found that the drug chloraquine, has had, some, effect against this coronovirus
> I have to take a high dose of hydroxychloraquine daily for SLE
> not quite the same drug, but, fingers x, its going to be close enough


They react the same, both classed as bases in chemistry they pretty much are the same. Both used currently for the same thing in medicine as it is.


----------



## DogLover1981

I'm not concerned enough about coronavirus to change my daily habits.



MollySmith said:


> It is interesting that people can refuse quarantine. It explains why Zara Phillips didn't have to, if it's still optional. I wonder if one the outcomes of the Government meeting will be to make that compulsory. It's certain compulsory at the university department here. Mind you we work in a large air con building it's like being in a giant airplane with the same air as the windows don't open. Great in a heatwave, horrible in the winter


I did read about how quarantines can be counterproductive. I doubt everyone would like the idea of being quarantined and some people may just avoid seeking a doctor to avoid being quarantined. It's especially true with a virus that isn't particularly serious in many cases like coronavirus. I think all the hysteria and news hype could make people and governments do things that could be counterproductive.


----------



## havoc

Quarantine isn’t nearly as bad as it would have been in the past. You can order stuff online and stay in touch with people by FaceTime/Skype. Self isolation is exactly that, I could even still walk my dog. Not so different from my everyday existence. Only thing I’d miss is the gym


----------



## willa

havoc said:


> Quarantine isn't nearly as bad as it would have been in the past. You can order stuff online and stay in touch with people by FaceTime/Skype. Self isolation is exactly that, I could even still walk my dog. Not so different from my everyday existence. Only thing I'd miss is the gym


Same here. I'd be happy as anything,2 weeks of bliss no work


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> apparently i might be covered, despite being very immuno compromised
> the scientists that be, have found that the drug chloraquine, has had, some, effect against this coronovirus
> I have to take a high dose of hydroxychloraquine daily for SLE
> not quite the same drug, but, fingers x, its going to be close enough


Don't hold your breath!

The French are very sceptical because of the lack of detail and because the study was only done with around a 100 people.

https://www.marieclaire.fr/coronavirus-chloroquine,1339838.asp

*Coronavirus: is chloroquine really effective in combating it?*


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> Don't hold your breath!
> 
> The French are very sceptical because of the lack of detail and because the study was only done with around a 100 people.


Hasn't stopped people buying it. It's about as available as hand sanitiser - sold out everywhere.


----------



## havoc

willa said:


> 2 weeks of bliss no work


Apparently Weatherspoons have decreed they will not pay anyone who is quarantined. I guess they want to stop employees trying it on but I still think it's really irresponsible.


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> Don't hold your breath!
> 
> The French are very sceptical because of the lack of detail and because the study was only done with around a 100 people.
> 
> https://www.marieclaire.fr/coronavirus-chloroquine,1339838.asp
> 
> *Coronavirus: is chloroquine really effective in combating it?*


im not but its always a hope
somethings got to go my way soon
surely


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Hasn't stopped people buying it. It's about as available as hand sanitiser - sold out everywhere.


You need a prescription to buy it in Hungary. I don't think I'll bother going to the doctor to ask for one. Anyway where I live I'm probably more likely to get Swine Fever or Mad Cow Disease


----------



## kimthecat

Saw this on Twitter , it made me giggle. 

"Friendly reminder: people who will be high-risk patients if we get coronavirus can hear you when you reassure everyone we're the only ones who might die."

It annoys me when they say so many people die of flu each each year, anyway. So that's ok, then ! I really don't want to add to the statistics .


----------



## purringcats

I have found somewhere that sells 500ml hand gel and have placed an order which I will be getting Wednesday.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> You need a prescription to buy it in Hungary.


Don't think you do here. I just Googled it to see what it was after reading the post on here which mentioned it and got a load of sites which sell it. Clicked on the first and it was sold out so got interested enough to look at a few more which were the same.


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> It annoys me when they say so many people die of flu each each year, anyway. So that's ok, then ! I really don't want to add to the statistics .


According to the stats you're at highest risk of dying if you're a man over sixty with hypertension and heart related health issues - pretty similar to seasonal flu. The vast majority of people will feel ill for a while and recover.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Don't think you do here. I just Googled it to see what it was after reading the post on here which mentioned it and got a load of sites which sell it. Clicked on the first and it was sold out so got interested enough to look at a few more which were the same.


I checked on UK sites as well and like you, found they were all sold out. Over here you won't find products such as Aspirin or Rennies for example, in the supermarket.like you do in the UK. You have to go to the pharmacy and ask for them!


----------



## havoc

Have to admit, I did pick up a couple of packs of paracetamol last week purely because I thought we'd probably better be prepared. Does that count as panic buying?


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Don't think you do here. I just Googled it to see what it was after reading the post on here which mentioned it and got a load of sites which sell it. Clicked on the first and it was sold out so got interested enough to look at a few more which were the same.





Magyarmum said:


> I checked on UK sites as well and like you, found they were all sold out. Over here you won't find products such as Aspirin or Rennies for example, in the supermarket.like you do in the UK. You have to go to the pharmacy and ask for them!


well thankfully i picked up my repeat script om friday
so Ive got a month of them

pssst......
anyone want to buy some :Bag


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> pssst......
> anyone want to buy some


I'd hang back for bets if I were you - price is bound to go up


----------



## MollySmith

Went to a pub night and a friend is already doing the ‘no hugs’. I’m not even thinking about it. Why come to the pub if you’re worried


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know it's frightening, but the numbers of cases across the world so far wouldn't fill Wembley Stadium.


----------



## Beth78

Uh oh, its reached my town now.
Not worried about myself its afew family members that could be in trouble as they suffer with asthma.


----------



## niamh123

Where do you live Beth


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Went to a pub night and a friend is already doing the 'no hugs'. I'm not even thinking about it. Why come to the pub if you're worried


I guess it depends on their day to day life. I went up to town to the theatre last week and was a lot more aware of it on the tube whereas my normal days involve very little contact with other people. Luckily the show I saw was well worth the (currently low) risk. Might feel differently if it had been rubbish.

Frankly if it's going to get me I'd rather cram as much living as I can in before it does


----------



## rona

Is there anywhere that tells you exactly where this is affecting? 

I'm fine, just a little worried for my OH with asthma and my friend with cancer


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> I guess it depends on their day to day life. I went up to town to the theatre last week and was a lot more aware of it on the tube whereas my normal days involve very little contact with other people. Luckily the show I saw was well worth the (currently low) risk. Might feel differently if it had been rubbish.
> 
> Frankly if it's going to get me I'd rather cram as much living as I can in before it does


I drove into the city yesterday morning to do my shopping at the Tesco hypermarket. Everything was as normal, no queues at the pharmacy and no shopping trolleys filled with canned food or bottles of water, Actually thinking about it slightly fewer people than usual but that could have been because we got there early.


----------



## MilleD

Beth78 said:


> Uh oh, its reached my town now.
> Not worried about myself its afew family members that could be in trouble as they suffer with asthma.


I'm asthmatic too. Pretty mild so hoping would be ok.

I was listening to one of the guys who work in the Public Health section at my place the other day talking on the phone.

He was saying that apparently the symptoms are so mild that some people don't know they've got it and was using that as a positive argument.

Surely that's part of the problem?


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> He was saying that apparently the symptoms are so mild that some people don't know they've got it and was using that as a positive argument.
> 
> Surely that's part of the problem


I find this is the problem every winter with colds and flu. Yes, it may not be bad for you but think about old people and those with underlying health issues.
I'm forever standing in a shop queue with someone coughing, sneezing or snuffling just behind me and wondering if I'm about to take it back to my OH  
I watched him struggling to breathe a few years back...........I don't want to watch that again


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> I find this is the problem every winter with colds and flu. Yes, it may not be bad for you but think about old people and those with underlying health issues


It had crossed my mind that the transmission of other winter ailments will probably be reduced simply because of increased hand washing.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> He was saying that apparently the symptoms are so mild that some people don't know they've got it and was using that as a positive argument


It is a positive thing for those who have to make policy. What worries them is the increased demand on public services by those who do need medical care.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Yup, when I have a bad cold I try to stay away from my Mum. She takes medication that lowers her immune system, and September she caught pneumonia after a day out. She had trouble getting rid of it and was still weak in December. So bit worried about that.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> It is a positive thing for those who have to make policy. What worries them is the increased demand on public services by those who do need medical care.


I think he was talking to someone outside the organisation from what he was saying.

He also said there were no plans to close schools in our LA yet, and that the advise was still just to practice good hygiene.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I have a shadow on my lungs so I get short of breath very quickly, at the moment I'm just taking life as it comes it's no good get paranoid, just taking a little more care, making sure I wash my hands when I get home, at least with my scooter I'm not touching any shopping trolleys.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Went to a pub night and a friend is already doing the 'no hugs'. I'm not even thinking about it. Why come to the pub if you're worried


i think hugs should be banned anything  I find then really awkward unless its close family.


----------



## mrs phas

At addenbrookes with Matt for his onco check up,
not a mask in sight, not even in the chemo part
Lots of handgel around as per


----------



## Bisbow

I have had my weekly shopping delivered since I had my hip op and as I am asthmatic as well I think I will carry on with the deliveries until it is all over
Just as well we did not go away this weekend I think
I am not too worried though, we have not mixed with other people for a while


----------



## kimthecat

For the local hospitals round here its seems to be business as normal so far. No masks , just the usual hand gel at points.


----------



## ForestWomble

My local hospital has set up a coronavirus hub within the hospital, which has slightly unnerved me, I haven't heard of any cases yet though so fingers crossed it isn't in my area.


----------



## mrs phas

Removed due to multiple postings jumping on the bandwagon of my being caught out
NOT due to a mod request, but by me
Being told once (andnicely,) is enough
I am not stupid and do not need to have multiple posts saying the same thing, thrust down my throat
If anyone wants to read it and didn't, just go to one of the posts quoting it
Cos, personally, tonight,
ICBA! with it all


----------



## Maurey

mrs phas said:


> This was sent to my FB account to pass onto my son
> IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
> Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
> 1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
> 2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
> 3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
> 4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
> 5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
> 6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
> 7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
> 8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
> 9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
> 10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
> THE SYMPTOMS
> 1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
> 2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
> 3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
> 4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. Imperative you then seek immediate attention.
> 
> Whilst I know most everything on FB should be taken with a giant pinch of salt, especially when it starts with
> Relatives of friends ....
> But
> I thought this was informative, without being scaremongering
> So decided to share


I'm not sure how much I would trust any of this, save the part about keeping hydrated, gargling, and washing hands. I wouldn't say that gargling is particularly effective as a preventative, though, more of a 'treatment of the common cold at home' thing.

There haven't yet been any tests that determine how long the novel coronavirus survives outside of the human body. There have only been tests on a different, but similar virus strain. Based on this, they think the virus can only survive a number of hours outside a living host. Another study that looks into other previous coronavirus outbreaks concluded it could persist on surfaces as long as 9 days. Ultimately, none of this is yet conclusive for the current strain.

It IS true that some strains of coronavirus are affected by temperatures over 30C when outside the human body, but none of this has been proven for the novel strain. To quote the original text of the researchers who put the dataset together:



> On different types of materials it can remain infectious for from 2 hours up to 9 days. A higher temperature such as 30°C or 40°C reduced the duration of persistence of highly pathogenic MERS-CoV, TGEV and MHV.


For symptoms, the WHO has stated that



> The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing.


They also advise that anyone who has fever, cough, and difficulty breathing immediately seek medical attention.


----------



## MollySmith

Maurey said:


> I'm not sure how much I would trust any of this, save the part about keeping hydrated, gargling, and washing hands. I wouldn't say that gargling is particularly effective as a preventative, though, more of a 'treatment of the common cold at home' thing.
> 
> There haven't yet been any tests that determine how long the novel coronavirus survives outside of the human body. There have only been tests on a different, but similar virus strain. Based on this, they think the virus can only survive a number of hours outside a living host. Another study that looks into other previous coronavirus outbreaks concluded it could persist on surfaces as long as 9 days. Ultimately, none of this is yet conclusive for the current strain.
> 
> It IS true that some strains of coronavirus are affected by temperatures over 30C when outside the human body, but none of this has been proven for the novel strain. To quote the original text of the researchers who put the dataset together:
> 
> For symptoms, the WHO has stated that
> 
> They also advise that anyone who has fever, cough, and difficulty breathing immediately seek medical attention.


I just wanted to say how good it is that you're here. I think it's very easy to get mislead - I've seen all sorts of advice and wasn't sure - but your replies here are very helpful. Thank you.

Let's see what our expert government advise tomorrow...


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> i think hugs should be banned anything  I find then really awkward unless its close family.


Fair point!


----------



## MollySmith

Meanwhile only 8 out 1,600 doctors think the NHS can cope with large scale outbreak
https://www.dauk.org/news/2020/2/29...ys-nhs-may-not-cope-with-large-scale-outbreak

and 3 female scientists (Italian and Polish) have isolated the virus in Italy. This should be bigger news imo. 
https://milano.repubblica.it/cronac...icercatrici_isolato_ceppo_italiano-249878123/


----------



## havoc

Of course it won’t cope, does anyone really think otherwise? The smart ones are those who get it early - before the rush. Once it hits big numbers I’m absolutely sure I will get completely different answers from ringing 111 than a 35 year old as they’ll have to ration care and sense says don’t waste it on anyone over a certain age. Don’t know where the cut off will be but there will be one.


----------



## mrs phas

Removed 
CBA!


----------



## rona

Woman serving in the pet shop this morning. Coughed, sniffed, blew her nose into a tissue, stuffed tissue into her cardy sleeve and then served me 

I dropped the correct changed into her out stretched hand, went straight back to car to sanitize my hands, then drove straight home to wash them


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> I dropped the correct changed into her out stretched hand, went straight back to car to sanitize my hands, then drove straight home to wash them


I'd imagine contactless payment is a huge help in stopping the spread. Aren't coins meant to be a hotbed of germs?


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> I'd imagine contactless payment is a huge help in stopping the spread. Aren't coins meant to be a hotbed of germs?


There are a lot of shops that don't have contactless including this pet shop.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I'd imagine contactless payment is a huge help in stopping the spread. Aren't coins meant to be a hotbed of germs?


and lots of us who dont have, or, refuse to have (me) contactless cards
when i saw my son pay for his shopping, with his card still in his wallet,
I knew then, there was no way i was going down that route
( yes im a fuddy duddy dinosaur)


----------



## MollySmith

Interesting reality check from this 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...ecial-coronavirus-everything-you-need-to-know

*TB infects and kills more people each day than the Coronavirus *


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> TB infects and kills more people each day than the Coronavirus


My brother in law died from it last year.


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> This was sent to my FB account to pass onto my son
> IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
> Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
> 1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
> 2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
> 3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
> 4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
> 5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
> 6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
> 7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
> 8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
> 9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
> 10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
> THE SYMPTOMS
> 1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
> 2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
> 3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
> 4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. Imperative you then seek immediate attention.
> 
> Whilst I know most everything on FB should be taken with a giant pinch of salt, especially when it starts with
> Relatives of friends ....
> But
> I thought this was informative, without being scaremongering
> So decided to share


You might want to read the following in response to the above (which is doing the rounds on social media).

Link here and I have copied the contents below too...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...cle-list-of-coronavirus-facts-fact-check/amp/

*A series of "facts" about the 2019 coronavirus strain are spreading across social media that - according to the message - were released by a "friend's uncle" who worked at Shenzhen Hospital.

In typical "copy and paste" chain message style, the information originated from its own equivalent to a "friend of a friend". While some of the claims are accurate, many are unproven, misleading or false.
An example of the message as it appears on social media can be seen below.

If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold*
Of course if you do have a runny nose, you are far more likely to have something like the common cold than coronavirus, and it is true that a runny nose isn't one of the most popular symptoms of the 2019 coronavirus strain. However, coronavirus and the resulting COVID-19 disease can cause a wide variety of symptoms depending on the individual, and this can include a runny nose.

The CDC list a runny nose as one of the potential symptoms more likely found in children (based on early reports.) Early studies also suggest that while not a prolific symptom, a runny nose can still be a symptom of the 2019 coronavirus strain.
*Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
*
Again, a runny nose, while not a popular symptom and by itself more indicative of something like a common cold, can still be a symptom of the 2019 coronavirus strain, according to health websites.

Of course if you do have a runny nose, you are far more likely to have something like the common cold than coronavirus, and it is true that a runny nose isn't one of the most popular symptoms of the 2019 coronavirus strain. However, coronavirus and the resulting COVID-19 disease can cause a wide variety of symptoms depending on the individual, and this can include a runny nose.

The CDC list a runny nose as one of the potential symptoms more likely found in children (based on early reports.) Early studies also suggest that while not a prolific symptom, a runny nose can still be a symptom of the 2019 coronavirus strain.

*This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.*

At the time of writing, experts are unsure whether warmer weather will decrease the spread of the 2019 coronavirus strain, as is common with similar inflictions such as influenza. The "26/27 degrees" barometer seems inaccurate since the average human body temperature is between 36.5-37.5 degrees Celsius. We can find no reputable health entity claiming that 26/27 degrees will kill coronavirus.

*If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne*

Studies show that how far sneeze particles and germs can travel vary wildly, depending on the person and the immediate environment.


----------



## kittih

Part 2

*If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.*

At this stage, estimates vary on how long the new coronavirus strain can remain active on surfaces, including metal surfaces, and factors like the immediate environment and temperature can play substantial roles. If this coronavirus strain is similar to past strains, it could potentially stay on some surfaces for many days.

*On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.*

Laundry detergent may kill the new coronavirus strain, but this will depend on many factors including the detergent used and temperature of the cycle. At this stage, it is too early to say how effective different detergents are at killing the 2019 coronavirus strain.

*Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice*

It is important to keep hydrated as a matter of course for general good health. However, claims that drinking water will help protect against specifically coronavirus are baseless. And the same applies to warm water as well. Agencies like the CDC and NHS do not mention drinking [warm] water as a way of preventing the coronavirus.

As for drinking with ice, it is recommended not to drink ice or tap water in countries with poor hygiene standards, though this advice is not specific to the 2019 coronavirus strain.

*Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.*

It is true that washing your hands regularly is a good way to prevent infection from coronavirus and many other bacterial or virus infections.

The CDC recommends regularly washing your hands with soapy water as an effective prevention technique.

*You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.*

There is no evidence to suggest that gargling warm, salty water will help prevent against coronavirus and no health entities we have seen are recommending this action.

*Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!*

Again, keeping hydrated is a generally sound piece of health advice. But there is no known correlation between drinking water and preventing coronavirus.

*THE SYMPTOMS*
*1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days*
*2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.*
*3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.*
*4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.*

The specific symptoms of coronavirus and the prevalence and duration of each symptom will vary depending on the individual. For example, some people may not know they were infected with coronavirus and will not develop any respiratory problems, including the symptoms outlined above. The above "timeline" does present one possible scenario, and of course if you do show symptoms of coronavirus (the three most popular include coughing, high temperature and shortness of breath) then you should seek medical advice as soon as possible.

As for this list of facts, we don't recommend circulating it. There is plenty of advice available from a host of reputable entities that can update their webpages with the most current information that we don't really need to utlize copy and paste messages across social media.


----------



## westie~ma

niamh123 said:


> I live in Swansea this week my youngest who is 16 was in school and in her form time lesson a boy came in to class the teacher asked him why he wasn't in school the day before,he had been on holiday to Northern Italy and had only returned home the day before,the teacher called for assistance straight away .The mother was called into the school and was told the boy and his brother should not return to school until mid March,When the news broke yesterday on our local news it was confirmed a man in his 50's had Corona Virus and had strong links to my daughters school Bishop Gore


Heard on the news the info that if you'd been in infected areas in Italy with no symptoms to self isolate.

Ospreys cancelled pro 14 match with Zebra due to the match being in an affected area.

The infected case from Swansea was in the Mumbles, apparently in a pub bragging about his holiday to Italy 

Your child's teacher reacted brilliantly. Fingers crossed they stopped potential flare up. How dull are some of these parents though? Why send your kids into school in these circumstances Beyond twp.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MollySmith said:


> Interesting reality check from this
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...ecial-coronavirus-everything-you-need-to-know
> 
> *TB infects and kills more people each day than the Coronavirus *


For most I think the concern about the coronavirus is the extra strain it will put on the NHS. Yes more die from certain other diseases, but as there is no vaccine for this yet there will be more people developing complications. At this time of year normal flu takes up a lot of hospital beds. If you add this to it. Too much strain on the healthcare professionals. Then there will be nonessential ops that will be delayed, causing people in pain etc to wait longer.

If we can limit it or slow the advance til the warmer weather comes and there is less flu around, that is a good thing surely.

Just being more aware and washing hands etc, keeping to yourself if you do have the flu.


----------



## purringcats

Prepare Yourself, Limit Physical Contact With People and Be Prepared.

Make sure you have at least 14 days worth of food supplies at home in case you have to self isolate yourself and don't forget to have enough food available for your pets. If you need to do a home delivery you can get the delivery person to leave your shopoing at the front or back door of your home so you can pick the shopping up when the delivery person has gone same if you want to order a take away.
Have a supply of disposable face masks (You can purchase these from ebay, amazon, Superdrug, Boots or even B&Q).
Have acohol based hand gel available.
Have some latex gloves or latex free disposable gloves available.
1. Avoid large crowds.
2. Avoid shacking hands and hugging people.
3. Make sure your clean your hands thoroughly for at least 20 seconds with hand gel or antibacterial hand wash when touching things in public like at supermarkets, doors, etc.

Make sure you have pleanty available to keep yourself entertained for 14 days. Self isolation does not mean you have to be cut off, you can still use your mobile, chat to people on social media if you use it or on petforums .

Importantly follow any advice given to you by the medical experts.


----------



## willa

My brother’s boss had been sent home from work to self isolate.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> Prepare Yourself, Limit Physical Contact With People and Be Prepared.
> 
> Make sure you have at least 14 days worth of food supplies at home in case you have to self isolate yourself and don't forget to have enough food available for your pets. If you need to do a home delivery you can get the delivery person to leave your shopoing at the front or back door of your home so you can pick the shopping up when the delivery person has gone same if you want to order a take away.
> Have a supply of disposable face masks (You can purchase these from ebay, amazon, Superdrug, Boots or even B&Q).
> Have acohol based hand gel available.
> Have some latex gloves or latex free disposable gloves available.
> 1. Avoid large crowds.
> 2. Avoid shacking hands and hugging people.
> 3. Make sure your clean your hands thoroughly for at least 20 seconds with hand gel or antibacterial hand wash when touching things in public like at supermarkets, doors, etc.
> 
> Make sure you have pleanty available to keep yourself entertained for 14 days. Self isolation does not mean you have to be cut off, you can still use your mobile, chat to people on social media if you use it or on petforums .
> 
> Importantly follow any advice given to you by the medical experts.


The Professor on the BBC advises against face masks and gloves since neither provides any protection. I'm not contributing to the plastic mountain or Amazon's tax avoidance by buying either unless an expert from WHO tells me too.


----------



## MollySmith




----------



## kimthecat

I don't believe it.  They have a twitter account. :Hilarious

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/dogging-parties-cancelled-until-further-17850576

Fears over the spread of coronavirus have led to 'dogging parties' being cancelled in Chesham.

According to an Twitter account, named 'Chesham Dogging', there will be no organised X-rated night time exploits for the time-being, after the number of UK cases rose to 39.

It also apologised for and inconvenienced it caused to secluded car park enthusiasts.

ETA I think its a parody . It has a lot of followers though !


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> My local hospital has set up a coronavirus hub within the hospital, which has slightly unnerved me, I haven't heard of any cases yet though so fingers crossed it isn't in my area.


Think that's just sensible to keep those with potential germs away from hospital buildings where sick people are.

We were at a major, busy hospital yesterday for oncology appointment and kept away from the busy public areas to minimise OH's contact.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> unless its close family.


 . . . or cats.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I don't believe it.  They have a twitter account. :Hilarious
> 
> https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/dogging-parties-cancelled-until-further-17850576
> 
> Fears over the spread of coronavirus have led to 'dogging parties' being cancelled in Chesham.
> 
> According to an Twitter account, named 'Chesham Dogging', there will be no organised X-rated night time exploits for the time-being, after the number of UK cases rose to 39.
> 
> It also apologised for and inconvenienced it caused to secluded car park enthusiasts.
> 
> ETA I think its a parody . It has a lot of followers though !


I saw that via one of our local newspapers who seem obsessed by articles on dogging, it seems they aren't the only paper who is!


----------



## Calvine

AsahiGo said:


> I support Greta without supporting the Coronavirus.


 Schools are closing, but loads of kids turned up to see her in Bristol just when we are being told to avoid ''large gatherings''.


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Schools are closing, but loads of kids turned up to see her in Bristol just when we are being told to avoid ''large gatherings''.


Weren't you invincible at that age? 

Anyway, they aren't at risk and many would happily get rid of older people...........after all, they are the ones that have killed the world


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Weren't you invincible at that age?
> 
> Anyway, they aren't at risk and many would happily get rid of older people...........after all, they are the ones that have killed the world


I wonder how many buses and cars were belching out exhaust fumes to get 30,000 people there; they all have smartphones, it would be easy to read what she has to say online, I'd have thought.


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> I wonder how many buses and cars were belching out exhaust fumes to get 30,000 people there; they all have smartphones, it would be easy to read what she has to say online, I'd have thought.


But everyone wants a chance in life to say
I was there when.......


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Weren't you invincible at that age?
> 
> Anyway, they aren't at risk and many would happily get rid of older people...........after all, they are the ones that have killed the world


According to them!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Calvine said:


> Schools are closing, but loads of kids turned up to see her in Bristol just when we are being told to avoid ''large gatherings''.


I imagine most of the kids that turned up to see her are still attending school/collage, there isn't that many schools closed due to coronavirus is there? ( I genuinely don't know cos I`m not following the news much at the moment). People in their thousands are still attending football matches, concerts are still going ahead, Crufts are not planning to cancel although we don't know what attendance figures will be like yet, maybe there will be more dogs than people this year but I doubt it!


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> Think that's just sensible to keep those with potential germs away from hospital buildings where sick people are.
> 
> We were at a major, busy hospital yesterday for oncology appointment and kept away from the busy public areas to minimise OH's contact.


Sensible, yes.

Still slightly unnerving though.


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ to make a statement anytime now.


----------



## shadowmare

Keeping it classy 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....pore-student-attacked-coronavirus-london/amp/


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Think that's just sensible to keep those with potential germs away from hospital buildings where sick people are.
> 
> We were at a major, busy hospital yesterday for oncology appointment and kept away from the busy public areas to minimise OH's contact.


This is another thing for me to worry about now. I'm going to the oncology unit tomorrow afternoon so I've googled the map to find out exactly where the entrance door to the unit is rather then go in the main entrance to the hospital.

I've just come off the phone to friends who were planning to go to Australia for 6 weeks to visit their daughter and her family. They had booked the flights before Christmas and deliberately chose one that had a stopover in Hong Kong of only one hour so that they wouldn't be hanging around for ages and would have a quicker trip.
The company told them about a month ago that their flight had been changed and they would be having a 30 hour stopover at HK. They immediately emailed the company to say this was not acceptable and they wanted to change flights again to one like they had originally booked. The company has been ignoring them ever since despite phone calls and emails. So they have now cancelled, I think wisely. Their children including the daughter they were to visit had become very worried about them being on the plane and particularly HK as the husband has several underlying conditions which would make him likely to be one of those elderly people who die from coronovirus.


----------



## kimthecat

@Siskin hope all goes well tomorrow.
I hope any treatment you have in the near future wont be affected.

This is what worries me , the effect it will have on the NHS and if treatments will be delayed .
Im waiting to hear when I will get my infusions , supposed to be around April. It's for my RA , its not life saving stuff but hopefully it will make a difference and I wont have to go back on steroids or depend on painkillers. I hope it wont be delayed for too long .

ETa Went into town today , no one wearing masks or anything , no one buying the sanitisers . 
gave my hands a good wash when I got home.


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> @Siskin hope all goes well tomorrow.
> I hope any treatment you have in the near future wont be affected.
> 
> This is what worries me , the effect it will have on the NHS and if treatments will be delayed .
> Im waiting to hear when I will get my infusions , supposed to be around April. It's for my RA , its not life saving stuff but hopefully it will make a difference and I wont have to go back on steroids or depend on painkillers. I hope it wont be delayed for too long .
> 
> ETa Went into town today , no one wearing masks or anything , no one buying the sanitisers .
> gave my hands a good wash when I got home.


Same here, my partners dad is waiting for a hip op. He cant sleep at night because of the pain and he was supposed to have it done in January. It's been moved back to May, and if the NHS is overly stressed by this it will probably be longer. His Mum is also waiting on an op on her hands for arthritis.

But yup, out and about most people just going about their normal business.


----------



## Magyarmum

HarlequinCat said:


> Same here, my partners dad is waiting for a hip op. He cant sleep at night because of the pain and he was supposed to have it done in January. It's been moved back to May, and if the NHS is overly stressed by this it will probably be longer. His Mum is also waiting on an op on her hands for arthritis.
> 
> But yup, out and about most people just going about their normal business.


My hip replacement was put off for two months because of the Norovirus and that was 7 years ago!

And still no confirmed cases of Coronavirus in Hungary so far, but it's inevitable there will be soon.


----------



## Siskin

HarlequinCat said:


> Same here, my partners dad is waiting for a hip op. He cant sleep at night because of the pain and he was supposed to have it done in January. It's been moved back to May, and if the NHS is overly stressed by this it will probably be longer. His Mum is also waiting on an op on her hands for arthritis.
> .


My husbands developed a hernia which really does need attention now. So he's decided to go private as the clinic is aware of my situation and are able to slot him in at our convenience. It will be done as a day patient under a local and not take long at all just a few hours and then he can go home after a suitable time in recovery. He won't be able to drive for 10 days though and may not be able to walk the dog. It will depend how I am when this can go ahead although we are getting offers of help, SIL says she can come and stay if needs be


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> @Siskin hope all goes well tomorrow.
> I hope any treatment you have in the near future wont be affected.
> 
> This is what worries me , the effect it will have on the NHS and if treatments will be delayed .
> Im waiting to hear when I will get my infusions , supposed to be around April. It's for my RA , its not life saving stuff but hopefully it will make a difference and I wont have to go back on steroids or depend on painkillers. I hope it wont be delayed for too long .
> 
> ETa Went into town today , no one wearing masks or anything , no one buying the sanitisers .
> gave my hands a good wash when I got home.


I hope you will get what you need, its a worrying time


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I hope you will get what you need, its a worrying time


Thanks


----------



## mrs phas

Independent chemist selling paper face masks in our town today
£5 EACH

I believe it's called profiteering these days
I prefer piracy


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> Independent chemist selling paper face masks in our town today
> £5 EACH
> 
> I believe it's called profiteering these days
> I prefer piracy


It's pure evil, especially as the things are next to useless.


----------



## havoc

Is anyone else feeling the need to do an early spring clean? Not because I think I need to disinfect for coronavirus but in case I end up ill and anyone comes to the house. Do I take it as a sign I'm still fighting fit that I'd be mortified if anyone saw I hadn't vacuumed my stairs for days


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Is anyone else feeling the need to do an early spring clean? Not because I think I need to disinfect for coronavirus but in case I end up ill and anyone comes to the house. *Do I take it as a sign I'm still fighting fit that I'd be mortified if anyone saw I hadn't vacuumed my stairs for days*


Yes.

HTH


----------



## rona

Silver lining

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/i...=NASA&utm_campaign=NASASocial&linkId=83339381


----------



## cheekyscrip

Gibraltar confirmed first case.


----------



## O2.0

The US CDC has put some info out, helpful and not fear mongering:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/2019-ncov-factsheet.pdf

How it spreads:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Is anyone else feeling the need to do an early spring clean? Not because I think I need to disinfect for coronavirus but in case I end up ill and anyone comes to the house. Do I take it as a sign I'm still fighting fit that I'd be mortified if anyone saw I hadn't vacuumed my stairs for days


Yes I've got cobwebs on my dustwebs at the moment


----------



## MollySmith

I’m trying to digest the 28 plan by the government. Massive concerns over no extension to statutory sick pay for gig workers and zero hours. So if you’re showing symptoms or need to self isolate but the landlord needs rent and kids need food, and you have no sick pay, people will work. And what about Universal Tax Credit? Going to appointments is a condition of getting credit but if someone is too ill, then what. I just can’t see why they didn’t start with the most obvious ways of infection, people so desperate for cash they have to go out, and then work upwards. Instead it’s about army, law and order, NHS and lots of managementy speak.

And I worry about older nurses and doctors coming out of retirement. How viable is this really when they will likely be the most at risk age group.

I can’t see anything very useful other than it underlines how under resourced our amazing NHS is. And I’m so sorry to read so many on this thread are too. My dad too. So many are affected, 4.5m are on the waiting list for surgery before this hit, god knows how many if/when it ends (which they predict is summer due to it being the end of the flu season when we can find out how Brexit and the climate aren’t doing or how they’ve been further mauled when we were otherwise distracted).


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> And I worry about older nurses and doctors coming out of retirement. How viable is this really when they will likely be the most at risk age group.


I think he was only talking about recently retired doctors and nurses.


----------



## Jason25

just seen a piece on bbc news that people are panic buying from the supermarkets leaving the shelves empty.. is this really necessary?

also I wish people would stop buying these dust masks we need them for work and tool station and screw fix have been sold out for the past week now


----------



## Magyarmum

Two students from Milan have been found positive in Prague for the virus. They'd spent a night in a hotel in Budapest before travelling to Prague,so now the authorities are looking for people they might have come in contact with.

Bit like looking for a needle in a haystack I would have thought?


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> Independent chemist selling paper face masks in our town today
> £5 EACH
> 
> I believe it's called profiteering these days
> I prefer piracy


You ain't seen nothing yet!
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/04/brits-tried-smuggle-100000-face-masks-morocco-sell-26-12346068/


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Silver lining
> 
> https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/i...=NASA&utm_campaign=NASASocial&linkId=83339381


Proof that pollution is caused by humans of all ages not just us oldiwonks! Silver long indeed, this has cheered me up a bit today.


----------



## MollySmith

A more sobering story from this week's Big Issue (a great read as always with a great article on the Article Circle)


----------



## Dave S

Jason25 said:


> just seen a piece on bbc news that people are panic buying from the supermarkets leaving the shelves empty.. is this really necessary?


I was listening to the radio phone in last night an there were people coming on saying they were stockpiling. One said he had 95 litres powdered milk and about 30 kilos of cat food - he has one cat, others were saying they were stockpiling toilet rolls.

Who started the panic, was it the press again? as far as I know about 55 people in UK have tested positive. 
Just been to do a weekly shop at Tesco myself - not stock piling, but I think they need to restack shelves again as there is quite a few empty spaces..


----------



## Jason25

Dave S said:


> I was listening to the radio phone in last night an there were people coming on saying they were stockpiling. One said he had 95 litres powdered milk and about 30 kilos of cat food - he has one cat, others were saying they were stockpiling toilet rolls.
> 
> Who started the panic, was it the press again? as far as I know about 55 people in UK have tested positive.
> Just been to do a weekly shop at Tesco myself - not stock piling, but I think they need to restack shelves again as there is quite a few empty spaces..


It's crazy and I assume the stock piling is only going to get worse. I'm going shopping later so will be keeping an eye on the shelves just to see what people are stock piling on, that's if they are down in Devon lol


----------



## Calvine

Dave S said:


> I was listening to the radio phone in last night an there were people coming on saying they were stockpiling. One said he had 95 litres powdered milk and about 30 kilos of cat food - he has one cat, others were saying they were stockpiling toilet rolls.
> 
> Who started the panic, was it the press again? as far as I know about 55 people in UK have tested positive.
> Just been to do a weekly shop at Tesco myself - not stock piling, but I think they need to restack shelves again as there is quite a few empty spaces..


I went to the supermarket today to buy some eggs, just six, don 't use that many. Was talking to a lady there who informed me there was not one toilet roll in the whole store either! Wanted to get also a couple of cans of sardines for Maggi, all they had were the ones in tomato. All gone. Apocalypse now.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> I went to the supermarket today to buy some eggs, just six, don 't use that many. Was talking to a lady there who informed me there was not one toilet roll in the whole store either! Wanted to get also a couple of cans of sardines for Maggi, all they had were the ones in tomato. All gone. Apocalypse now.
> 
> View attachment 432694
> View attachment 432695


This is crazy. It's bad enough with a flurry of snow and people run and buy bread and milk.. Honestly people really are panicking.


----------



## purringcats

I think the press aren't helping continually updating saying there is x amount of new cases everyday. These new cases are contained though so why cause alarm to the wider public and making people panic?

My local supermarket has rows of empty shelves because people are stockpiling and no sooner has the supermarket restocked the selves are empty again which is getting annoying for those of use that are not panicing or stockpiling. On Sunday last week I never saw the local supermarket so busy it was hard manouvering around the store due to queues of people with shopping trollies full.


----------



## Magyarmum

I drove into the city on Sunday because I wanted to look at summer clothes in Tesco and whilst I was there decided to do my twice monthly shop. Normally hypermarkets like Auchan and Tesco are packed with shoppers but last Sunday there seemed fewer than usual, although that could have been that I got there fairly early in the morning. 

I bought the things I normally buy, no stock piling for me and standing waiting in the check out no one else seemed to be buying more than normal either!


----------



## ForestWomble

One 'good' thing about the panic. People are cancelling hospital appointments so a family member got their appointment moved forward.


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> there was not one toilet roll in the whole store either! Wanted to get also a couple of cans of sardines for Maggi, all they had were the ones in tomato. All gone. Apocalypse now.


God! Not the toilet roll!! the humanity!!rowning:Nailbiting:Jawdrop

Just had a Sainsbury delivery and the only thing they didnt have was black beans (I got kidney beans instead)...doubt its related to stockpiling though!
Having seen some pictures of peoples 'stockpiled' cupboards Im slightly worreid to see that they look like my regular kitchen cupboards!:Shy Im not a prepper though, sometimes Im just lazy and its easy to have lots of tinned/dried stuff to use...also I have a bad habit of not checking before I shop so wind up with 6 jars of Marmite sat there!LOL:Hilarious
I will make the effort to keep a good supply of pet food in. I bulk buy anyways as I have to order it from Amazon and wouldnt want to run out.

More worried about how work will cope though. Alot of hospitals are currently running just below breaking point and if this thing really takes off its going to be bad. Not just for the people who catch it but also people waiting ops and procedures that will be cancelled and people pushed out of hospital too fast either coz bed space is needed or they are at less risk at home. Its def going to put a huge strain on our health service.


----------



## Magyarmum

Posted by the Hungarian Government. Hope the link works ...

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/...wcTHvpZuXuM#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## Dave S

catz4m8z said:


> God! Not the toilet roll!! the humanity!!rowning:Nailbiting:Jawdrop


Local big Tesco had large packs on special offer today. 
Still had quite a few packs left as well.


----------



## KittenKong

Jason25 said:


> It's crazy and I assume the stock piling is only going to get worse. I'm going shopping later so will be keeping an eye on the shelves just to see what people are stock piling on, that's if they are down in Devon lol


Not a good time to be Brexiting is it, seeing shortages may become common following a no deal crash out, irrespective of Coronavirus....


----------



## Siskin

I’m wondering if to have our supermarket shop delivered until I’m (reasonably) healthy again.


----------



## MollySmith

Brilliant video and informative from WHO
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1lPKqVDagoQGb


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> also I have a bad habit of not checking before I shop so wind up with 6 jars of Marmite sat there!LOL:Hilarious


A fate worse than Coronavirus!!!!!

:Hilarious


----------



## Jobeth

I got an email from my dentist saying that they are checking everyone’s temperature (including staff) on arrival. They will ask you to leave if you have a raised temperature.


----------



## Siskin

My husbands just phoned me from Tesco’s saying it’s like a bomb has hit the place, can’t even get any painkillers for me which I need. The surgery is unable to let me have paracetamol on prescription as the government says they can’t anymore. I don’t mind paying as generic pills are cheap, but your’re only allowed two packs which doesn’t last long when your’re taking 2 pills four times a day. I’ve no idea what I will do if I run out completely.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> My husbands just phoned me from Tesco's saying it's like a bomb has hit the place, can't even get any painkillers for me which I need. The surgery is unable to let me have paracetamol on prescription as the government says they can't anymore. I don't mind paying as generic pills are cheap, but your're only allowed two packs which doesn't last long when your're taking 2 pills four times a day. I've no idea what I will do if I run out completely.


Try some online pharmacies.
/www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/pain/paracetamol
http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/lloydspharmacy-paracetamol-500mg-caplets-32-caplets


----------



## Guest

Siskin said:


> My husbands just phoned me from Tesco's saying it's like a bomb has hit the place, can't even get any painkillers for me which I need. The surgery is unable to let me have paracetamol on prescription as the government says they can't anymore. I don't mind paying as generic pills are cheap, but your're only allowed two packs which doesn't last long when your're taking 2 pills four times a day. I've no idea what I will do if I run out completely.


Have a look in smaller local shops - off license, corner shop etc. They usually stock paracetamol, ibuprofen and whatnot. Less likely to be ransacked


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> Try some online pharmacies.
> /www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/pain/paracetamol
> http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/lloydspharmacy-paracetamol-500mg-caplets-32-caplets


I've been checking these out. I don't know how many they will allow you to order, I suspect only what you are allowed in a shop. The p&p seems to be £3 odd in most cases


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> My husbands just phoned me from Tesco's saying it's like a bomb has hit the place, can't even get any painkillers for me which I need. The surgery is unable to let me have paracetamol on prescription as the government says they can't anymore. I don't mind paying as generic pills are cheap, but your're only allowed two packs which doesn't last long when your're taking 2 pills four times a day. I've no idea what I will do if I run out completely.


For long term illness you can get paracetamol on prescription.. It was more for those who ever they were who say have a pulled muscle for example. It should be OK for a GP to prescribe for you. It's a bloody shame if they don't


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> For long term illness you can get paracetamol on prescription.. It was more for those who ever they were who say have a pulled muscle for example. It should be OK for a GP to prescribe for you. It's a bloody shame if they don't


I had a talk to the nurse at the doctors today about this very thing as I thought with something like I'm going through currently I thought they would be able to prescribe it. I explained the difficulty in being able to buy enough from a shop and having to go out more often to buy them which given the virus I felt it wasn't a good idea anyway. She agreed with me but reiterated that they can no longer put it on prescription. However she did say she would speak to the doctor who is dealing with me. Unfortunately he's away this week so I wonder if she will remember when he's back in again. I had no idea until this evening that the pharmacy at Tescos had totally run out of every single painkiller they had and apart from some aspirin that my husband found when he scrabbled around in the empty boxes, there are none on the shelves. This is a big branch of Tesco's, one of the Extra ones, so should carry plenty of stock I would have thought. The trouble is people are panicking and just grabbing what they can, in all likelihood it won't even get used.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Siskin said:


> I had a talk to the nurse at the doctors today about this very thing as I thought with something like I'm going through currently I thought they would be able to prescribe it. I explained the difficulty in being able to buy enough from a shop and having to go out more often to buy them which given the virus I felt it wasn't a good idea anyway. She agreed with me but reiterated that they can no longer put it on prescription. However she did say she would speak to the doctor who is dealing with me. Unfortunately he's away this week so I wonder if she will remember when he's back in again. I had no idea until this evening that the pharmacy at Tescos had totally run out of every single painkiller they had and apart from some aspirin that my husband found when he scrabbled around in the empty boxes, there are none on the shelves. This is a big branch of Tesco's, one of the Extra ones, so should carry plenty of stock I would have thought. The troubleI is people are panicking and just grabbing what they can, in all likelihood it won't even get used.


I hope you will get better soon.

I think medicinal use of gin is recommended as a painkiller and disinfectant.
Better for your liver too.
Stockpile!!!!
:Finger


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> I had a talk to the nurse at the doctors today about this very thing as I thought with something like I'm going through currently I thought they would be able to prescribe it. I explained the difficulty in being able to buy enough from a shop and having to go out more often to buy them which given the virus I felt it wasn't a good idea anyway. She agreed with me but reiterated that they can no longer put it on prescription. However she did say she would speak to the doctor who is dealing with me. Unfortunately he's away this week so I wonder if she will remember when he's back in again. I had no idea until this evening that the pharmacy at Tescos had totally run out of every single painkiller they had and apart from some aspirin that my husband found when he scrabbled around in the empty boxes, there are none on the shelves. This is a big branch of Tesco's, one of the Extra ones, so should carry plenty of stock I would have thought. The trouble is people are panicking and just grabbing what they can, in all likelihood it won't even get used.


I did find these, don't know how long they will be in stock.
https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/paracetamol-500mg-hedex-panadol-anadin-96-caplets/


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> I had a talk to the nurse at the doctors today about this very thing as I thought with something like I'm going through currently I thought they would be able to prescribe it. I explained the difficulty in being able to buy enough from a shop and having to go out more often to buy them which given the virus I felt it wasn't a good idea anyway. She agreed with me but reiterated that they can no longer put it on prescription. However she did say she would speak to the doctor who is dealing with me. Unfortunately he's away this week so I wonder if she will remember when he's back in again. I had no idea until this evening that the pharmacy at Tescos had totally run out of every single painkiller they had and apart from some aspirin that my husband found when he scrabbled around in the empty boxes, there are none on the shelves. This is a big branch of Tesco's, one of the Extra ones, so should carry plenty of stock I would have thought. The trouble is people are panicking and just grabbing what they can, in all likelihood it won't even get used.


Maybe make an appointment to see your doctor when he comes back just is case the nurse does forget! You can definitely get paracetamol on prescription if you have a long term illness, my mum has them on prescription along with another painkiller that is prescription only. If for some reason they refuse to put them on prescription for you then they should prescribe an alternative as clearly you need pain relief and its hardly your fault there is none available to buy over the counter due to panic buying! 
My local supermarket has had its freezers wiped out, I thought maybe the freezers had broke but no apparently people have been stripping them quicker than they can fill them, it is only a small supermarket but even so that is crazy, hate to think what will happen if snow is also forecast, there will be fights over the bread!


----------



## havoc

Looking online Superdrug still seems to be well stocked. You may need to order online and collect in store.


----------



## rona

Went into a couple of small shops yesterday and they seemed fully stocked.


----------



## Jason25

Aldi stock levels were normal yesterday, I will check Sainsbury’s later lol


----------



## Jason25

Just watching the news this morning and it’s showing more stores being empty, asking if stock piling is selfish or sensible.

It does plant the seed in your head, I’m kind of wondering if I should stock up on some essentials in case I can’t get any in the future.


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> The trouble is people are panicking and just grabbing what they can, in all likelihood it won't even get used.


Is it a payday panic? It makes sense that people have the money to stock up in the week after payday. If so things should ease towards the middle of the month.


----------



## Calvine

purringcats said:


> people are stockpiling


 My mother would stockpile for the most bizarre reasons. When there was a strike/work to rule _on the buses_ she stockpiled so much sugar that the cupboard fell clean off the wall under the weight of it. But sugar, if you can believe . . . how vital is that!! talk about siege mentality. I put that down to having lived during the war, but this time, God knows, these are not oldies doing it.


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> New One 'good' thing about the panic. People are cancelling hospital appointments so a family member got their appointment moved forward.


 Every cloud has a silver lining they say!


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> My mother would stockpile for the most bizarre reasons. When there was a strike/work to rule _on the buses_ she stockpiled so much sugar that the cupboard fell clean off the wall under the weight of it. But sugar, if you can believe . . . how vital is that!! talk about siege mentality. I put that down to having lived during the war, but this time, God knows, these are not oldies doing it.


I stockpile every winter because there have been times when I haven't been able to get my car onto the road for a month due to heavy snow. We don't have a shop in the village, the nearest one being 12 miles away. We do have our own mini bus and driver, who'd do my basic (bread, milk etc) shopping for me if necessary, but I find it much easier to keep in a good stock..


----------



## Calvine

Flybe, who were already in tight spot, collapsed overnight, lost bookings due to coronavirus thought to have hastened their demise . . . passengers stranded all over the place.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I stockpile every winter because there have been times when I haven't been able to get my car onto the road for a month due to heavy snow. We don't have a shop in the village, the nearest one being 12 miles away. We do have our own mini bus and driver, who'd do my basic (bread, milk etc) shopping for me if necessary, but I find it much easier to keep in a good stock..


 My mother would just do it for no reason . . . she was within walking distance of the shops, think she just enjoyed the drama!


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> I stockpile every winter because there have been times when I haven't been able to get my car onto the road for a month due to heavy snow. We don't have a shop in the village, the nearest one being 12 miles away. We do have our own mini bus and driver, who'd do my basic (bread, milk etc) shopping for me if necessary, but I find it much easier to keep in a good stock..


That's being sensible and we do the same if there's indication of snow as the village has a tendency to get cut off. Although there are a number of ways out of the village every one of them means going up a steep hill and the top road is the only one that gets gritted if they can get there

I have a nice kind friend who is very kindly sending me a large pack of paracetamol. Isn't that brilliant.


----------



## rona

Extremely interesting section on BBC Parliament now

Prof Chris Whitty questioned by MPs


----------



## rona

rona said:


> Extremely interesting section on BBC Parliament now
> 
> Prof Chris Whitty questioned by MPs


As the guy is talking, someone is coughing all the time in the background and the woman directly behind, rubs her nose and eyes repeatedly with her hands


----------



## StormyThai

The level of panic is ridiculous...it's a fecking virus, wash your (general you) hands and get on with your life!


----------



## SusieRainbow

To be honest I've been quite unbothered by all the hype until yesterday,then read in the news that I'm in a vulnerable group and more likely to succumb ! ( I forget the statistics)
So this morning the postman delivered 3 hand-sanitiser sprays, that's handy.
This week the only person I've seen was my cleaner on Monday, OH has been away all week, so not at great risk of infection although I'm picking my grandson up from school later.


----------



## StormyThai

SusieRainbow said:


> To be honest I've been quite unbothered by all the hype until yesterday,then read in the news that I'm in a vulnerable group and more likely to succumb ! ( I forget the statistics)
> So this morning the postman delivered 3 hand-sanitiser sprays, that's handy.
> This week the only person I've seen was my cleaner on Monday, OH has been away all week, so not at great risk of infection although I'm picking my grandson up from school later.


I'm vulnerable too...I've made no changes, apart from telling the receptionists (when I can get a sodding appointment that is) at the doctors that I will wait outside...but then I do that in winter as a rule anyway because doctors waiting rooms are full of sniffing, coughing and snotting everywhere :Shifty


----------



## DoodlesRule

Whilst I don't want to be ill not particularly concerned about myself but am worried about my Dad, he'll be 90 in a couple of months. I deal with anything medical related for Dad so have just written out instructions for rest of family about ordering his repeat prescriptions in case I succumb.

Plus my mother has advanced dementia and is in a care home - try not to think of it being passed to the care home


----------



## mrs phas

SusieRainbow said:


> To be honest I've been quite unbothered by all the hype until yesterday,then read in the news that I'm in a vulnerable group and more likely to succumb ! ( I forget the statistics)


Me too, I'm just going about my business as normal
Bar a couple of things
One
I'm using kitchen towel after washing my hands, then throwing it in the bin straight away
Damp towels are a breeding ground for germs of all sorts, so, even if your washing your hands several times a day, after the first use of a towel, you're then transferring anything on it, back to your clean hands
And two
Avoiding public conveniences, I try to anyway, but, the hand blowers have been proven more than once to circulate germs into the air. If I do have to use a public convenience (age don't you know) then I try only to use those I know have paper towel dispensers. Thankfully since the after effects of chemo I know which looks are safe


----------



## Magyarmum

I'm going about everything as normal. If my number's up then I've had a good innings and I might as well go out having enjoyed my last few days/weeks of my life to the full!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Hopefully using my Mobility Scooter and wearing gloves so not touching door handles washing them when I get home and washing my hands as soon as I get in, not having to using trolleys or baskets, and going shopping early at Sainsbury's before it gets busy. I not going to pubs, cafes or anywhere there are lots of people. Not sure what else I can do.


----------



## rona

The Chief medical officer this morning said that older people and those with underlying health issues should be avoiding crowd situations but healthy young (under 60) shouldn't worry apart from keeping their hands washed and just normal life with the flu doing the rounds.

Just seen a slot on the BBC news that gave a short snippet of the interview and it twisted what the guy was saying completely by chopping the segment . Pure scare mongering


----------



## Dogloverlou

As someone who suffers from health anxiety I'm surprised I haven't been more triggered by all this tbh. I'm just constantly remembering to keep it all in perspective. The numbers are so low and we're being reassured all the time that the virus is 'mild' and not to be overly concerned about. That being said, I'm off to Crufts on Saturday and I do think the event is a likely contamination zone what with all the visitors and international visitors especially. But the PHE have not adviced cancellation so I guess the risks are minimal. 

I have been looking for hand sanitiser, the small portable ones to take along with me to Crufts, for about four days now and all the shops around me are sold out! Next step will be spending silly money at the Garden centre for some


----------



## SusieRainbow

Dogloverlou said:


> As someone who suffers from health anxiety I'm surprised I haven't been more triggered by all this tbh. I'm just constantly remembering to keep it all in perspective. The numbers are so low and we're being reassured all the time that the virus is 'mild' and not to be overly concerned about. That being said, I'm off to Crufts on Saturday and I do think the event is a likely contamination zone what with all the visitors and international visitors especially. But the PHE have not adviced cancellation so I guess the risks are minimal.
> 
> I have been looking for hand sanitiser, the small portable ones to take along with me to Crufts, for about four days now and all the shops around me are sold out! Next step will be spending silly money at the Garden centre for some


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Q-Slo...s=p_76:419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&sr=8-25

How about this, most appropriate !


----------



## mrs phas

Spoke to sons travel insurance this morning
Unless the government, ours or Japan, mplementi a lock down, or the airlines stop flying to either destination, barring catching it here, he'll still be off on the 15th
If he catches it there they'll cover him, even if he's out there after insurance expires
He's staying on main island only, and, with Japan's fastidiousness around hygiene and germs, I'm not too worried, just mum worried


----------



## mrs phas

I did think about buying him some Dettol household wipes, as no hand sanitizer anywhere, on the basis that, even if a bit rough on the skin, he can moisturise afterward


----------



## Guest

mrs phas said:


> I did think about buying him some Dettol household wipes, as no hand sanitizer anywhere, on the basis that, even if a bit rough on the skin, he can moisturise afterward


Normal body wash/shower gel miniatures would be alright. Could always go over with a baby wipe afterwards (soap drying/sticky etc).


----------



## Dogloverlou

SusieRainbow said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Q-Slobber-Hand-Sanitizer/dp/B004LJ47B4/ref=sr_1_25?keywords=hand+sanitizer+gel&qid=1583406675&refinements=p_76:419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&sr=8-25
> 
> How about this, most appropriate !


OMG if I could get that tomorrow I would be buying! Even if it is rather expensive!


----------



## Siskin

Managed to get the last bottle in Tesco’s of surgical spirits yesterday and we’ve mixed this with medicated hand wash, it would probably make a suitable sanitiser.


I went to a larger village about 3-4 miles away to get my hair cut this morning. There is a pharmacy there and they had plenty of painkillers, so got paracetamol. Then I popped into the small supermarket and they had plenty of painkillers too, so got some Anadin. Should be alright for a week or so now.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Dogloverlou said:


> OMG if I could get that tomorrow I would be buying! Even if it is rather expensive!


Do you have Amazon Prime ?


----------



## MilleD

SusieRainbow said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Q-Slobber-Hand-Sanitizer/dp/B004LJ47B4/ref=sr_1_25?keywords=hand+sanitizer+gel&qid=1583406675&refinements=p_76:419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&sr=8-25
> 
> How about this, most appropriate !


Amazon need to be a bit more responsible and not let people take the p!ss with the prices for some of these things.

That 50ml carex (down the page) is £10.99. I got one for a quid a couple of weeks back....

The profiteering is a little disgusting.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Managed to get the last bottle in Tesco's of surgical spirits yesterday and we've mixed this with medicated hand wash, it would probably make a suitable sanitiser.
> 
> I went to a larger village about 3-4 miles away to get my hair cut this morning. There is a pharmacy there and they had plenty of painkillers, so got paracetamol. Then I popped into the small supermarket and they had plenty of painkillers too, so got some Anadin. Should be alright for a week or so now.


I've got a large bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol that I use for crafting, apparently that works if you mix it with aloe very gel. Or something 

Edit - vera, not very!!


----------



## SusieRainbow

MilleD said:


> Amazon need to be a bit more responsible and not let people take the p!ss with the prices for some of these things.
> 
> That 50ml carex (down the page) is £10.99. I got one for a quid a couple of weeks back....
> 
> The profiteering is a little disgusting.


Yes, true, I've seen some sanitisers on sale for far more than that ! 
But the name of that one tickled me, how perfect to use at Crufts ! I don't know what the RRP is.


----------



## mrs phas

After a quick Pinterest search, ive been out and got ingredients to make this handgel (h&b aloe Vera is in penny sale) I am adding tea tree,oil as well,some and some travel bottles to decant it into

https://pin.it/3MMPwlK

Sod the profiteers


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> After a quick Pinterest search, ive been out and got ingredients to make this handgel (h&b aloe Vera is in penny sale) I am adding tea tree,oil as well,some and some travel bottles to decant it into


Thats a good idea! I make alot of my own cleaning products anyways using tea tree or lavender oils as they are antibacterial.


----------



## Bisbow

According to the internet someone in China kissed her dog and he caught the virus from her. how true it.is I have no idea

So, don't let strangers kiss your dog or he/she may give it to your

I find it hard to believe but there you go


----------



## Jaf

I got a very funny look from a man in town today. I sound like a stream train when I walk and he looked at me for ages, then turned and walked the other way. I’m sure I could panic thousands of people if I tried.

I have about a months’ worth of food for me and the cats, not for any reason other than general forward planning for living in the middle of nowhere and not getting post/ food delivered to the house. Sometimes I would love a takeaway!

I am not really worried yet, the advantage of being a hermit. I have drs appointments though and am wondering about the hand gels. The thing is I went on holiday to Egypt a few years ago, everyone else had the hand gels and refused street food and train food. I was the only one to not get food poisoning! I thought maybe the gel gave people funny confidence.


----------



## Dave S

Someone has just expressed their feelings on Facebook - I have x'd out the swear words;

_"Dear people of Britain, especially those in Hayward's Heath, West Sussex. I would like to thank you for your uneducated, mass hysteria that sees supermarket shelves across the country empty. And this is because 85 people in the UK have a confirmed case of a virus that will most likely just give you a bit of a cough.

XXXX me, what will happen when that number reaches 100? 1000? 10,000? 100,000?

I know it's potentially life threatening, but that is only if you have a weakened immune system or a long term illness like diabetes, cancer, lung disease. And even then, when you hear reports that people are dying, think about where they are dying. They're dying in countries with entirely different access to medical care and entirely different geographical issues due to the expanse of their countries.

So while yes, there is cause to be mindful of things like - have you travelled to a shut down zone in the last two weeks? Have you swapped bodily fluid with someone who has a confirmed case? If so, then self isolate and use the NHS 111 online tool to tell you what to do next.

Otherwise, just go about your daily lives, wash your hands for 20 seconds, and more frequently, use alcohol gels when out and about, sneeze into a tissue, not a hanky, and throw it away after, or sneeze into your elbow and don't cough on people.

What you DON'T need to do is panic buy the whole of XXXXXX Sainsbury's so that when people go there who are caring for those who are ACTUALLY and CURRENTLY poorly, they are able to access the supplies and medications they need.

Thanks to the selfish people of Hayward's Heath today, my 2 year old daughter with Chicken Pox will have to battle her temperature on her own because I couldn't buy XXXXXXX Calpol because you've already bought it in fear of a virus that will give you a cough. Brilliant.

You might get a cough, she might have a seizure if her temp spikes much more.

She's 2 and you're old enough to know better.

Stop panicking, get yourself properly educated and be responsible. Or is that too much to ask?"_

Seems a reasonable request.
I was shopping for my mother in big Tesco this afternoon and there was only one type of disinfectant on the shelves and infant Calpol is getting rare.​


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Jaf said:


> I The thing is I went on holiday to Egypt a few years ago, everyone else had the hand gels and refused street food and train food. I was the only one to not get food poisoning! I thought maybe the gel gave people funny confidence.


My son and family went on holiday to Egypt last summer. A big all inclusive complex.
Apparently a lot of people were getting ill. His observation was person hygiene very much lacking in people generally not the complex. Perhaps you are right re gel.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I've just been into town, shelves full of paracetamol and Calpol. 
Obviously the buying hysteria hasn't reached here !


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> Someone has just expressed their feelings on Facebook - I have x'd out the swear words;
> 
> _"Dear people of Britain, especially those in Hayward's Heath, West Sussex. I would like to thank you for your uneducated, mass hysteria that sees supermarket shelves across the country empty. And this is because 85 people in the UK have a confirmed case of a virus that will most likely just give you a bit of a cough.
> 
> XXXX me, what will happen when that number reaches 100? 1000? 10,000? 100,000?
> 
> I know it's potentially life threatening, but that is only if you have a weakened immune system or a long term illness like diabetes, cancer, lung disease. And even then, when you hear reports that people are dying, think about where they are dying. They're dying in countries with entirely different access to medical care and entirely different geographical issues due to the expanse of their countries.
> 
> So while yes, there is cause to be mindful of things like - have you travelled to a shut down zone in the last two weeks? Have you swapped bodily fluid with someone who has a confirmed case? If so, then self isolate and use the NHS 111 online tool to tell you what to do next.
> 
> Otherwise, just go about your daily lives, wash your hands for 20 seconds, and more frequently, use alcohol gels when out and about, sneeze into a tissue, not a hanky, and throw it away after, or sneeze into your elbow and don't cough on people.
> 
> What you DON'T need to do is panic buy the whole of XXXXXX Sainsbury's so that when people go there who are caring for those who are ACTUALLY and CURRENTLY poorly, they are able to access the supplies and medications they need.
> 
> Thanks to the selfish people of Hayward's Heath today, my 2 year old daughter with Chicken Pox will have to battle her temperature on her own because I couldn't buy XXXXXXX Calpol because you've already bought it in fear of a virus that will give you a cough. Brilliant.
> 
> You might get a cough, she might have a seizure if her temp spikes much more.
> 
> She's 2 and you're old enough to know better.
> 
> Stop panicking, get yourself properly educated and be responsible. Or is that too much to ask?"_
> 
> Seems a reasonable request.
> I was shopping for my mother in big Tesco this afternoon and there was only one type of disinfectant on the shelves and infant Calpol is getting rare.​


im sorry, but, all the pharmacists, should be rationing it to 2 bottles of either calpol per person, with proof of having child
those over with children over 12, and adults, should be refused and directed to the paracetamol shelf
its panic buying gone mad

apparently loo rolls are starting to be short stocked too
daily mail anyone? 
its the only thing its useful for


----------



## purringcats

The cases at the moment are mainly people returning to the United Kingdom from China, Italy and those from the Cruise ship in Japan and a few medical personal who have caught it from treating those that have the virus and family members who have been in physical contact with their relatives who have the virus. It suggests from the news reports that those that have the virus are contained, what I mean is they are taking medical advice and self isolating themselves. The total confirmed cases with the virus by the way has risen to 115 today.

I do not think at there is any need at the moment to panic in this country yet.


----------



## Lurcherlad

There were only 6 packs of 24 loo rolls in Tesco today as I did a normal topping up shop for a few bits.

I would usually buy a pack of 4 or 9 depending on price but had no choice but to buy 24 ..... 

Lots of shelves around the store were stripped - mostly non perishables.


----------



## rona

If each infected person infects just two others each day, by this time next week there could be 12,800


----------



## Siskin

My friend went shopping this morning, and picked me up some aspirin. She said it wasn’t too bad, but more people were in stocking up on tins and packets. Very little in the way of loo rolls and no paracetamol still.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> im sorry, but, all the pharmacists, should be rationing it to 2 bottles of either calpol per person, with proof of having child
> those over with children over 12, and adults, should be refused and directed to the paracetamol shelf


You do realise not all adults can take tablet form of medication.. It's actually quite common for one reason or another and if calpol is the only form they can take, which does have adult dosage on every bottle then so be it.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> You do realise not all adults can take tablet form of medication.. It's actually quite common for one reason or another and if calpol is the only form they can take, which does have adult dosage on every bottle then so be it.


I do realise that liquid paracetamol is a thing, specifically available for adults with those problems, also pre filled injectable paracetamol, if deemed needed
Calpol is specifically made for babies and children upto twelve
NO adults should be taking stuff meant for babies and children, at that strength, it iwouldn't be that affective anyway


----------



## mrs phas

Breaking news
First death in uk
Patient with underlying health problems though
My thoughts are with their family


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> I do realise that liquid paracetamol is a thing, specifically vailablea for adults with those problems, also re filled injectable paracetamol, if deemed needed
> Calpol is specifically made for babies and children upto twelve
> NO adults should be taking stuff meant for babies and children, at that strength,t iwouldn't be affective anyway


It states the guidelines for adults on the box and bottle.. Yes large quantities. You are forgetting people can't take the 'adult' version of liquid paracetamol for the taste and at the end of the day that what calpol is, some people can have really aversions for medical and mental health reasons and unfortunately do rely on what is marketed for children. No law says just for children.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Our Chief Minister recommended us to wash hands singing Happy Birthday twice...
Honestly!!! 
I have read it in official government release we were obliged to read....

Meanwhile our folk are mixing vodka with aloe Vera to make own sanitizers...

I though believe in Fairy...


----------



## shetlandlover

I ventured down the hand wash isle at Boots yesterday to see if all the hype was real and sure enough if was all gone. 
Apparently there were cues outside at 8am!


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> im sorry, but, all the pharmacists, should be rationing it to 2 bottles of either calpol per person, with proof of having child
> those over with children over 12, and adults, should be refused and directed to the paracetamol shelf
> its panic buying gone mad
> 
> apparently loo rolls are starting to be short stocked too
> daily mail anyone?
> its the only thing its useful for


I absolutely think supermarkets need to start to clamp down on people panic buying anything. It's ludicrous.

Apart from Eco leaf and Who Gives A Crap, most loo roll brands contribute to illegal defrostation according to Ethical Consumer reporting so there may well be a price to pay for all this elsewhere.


----------



## MollySmith

I’m also concern and baffled by that other utterly unethnical brand Starbucks saying everyone needs to not use reusable cups. I honestly can’t work out why. Surely our own cups are better for us, less germs and more importantly better for the environment (anything to reduce single use manufacture is better). It’s taken years to get people to stop buying wasteful plastic tops and paper cups. I feel like I’m missing something here? I suppose germs to staff so it’s mitigating loss of sales and putting the environment at risk.

‘and..... is it just me but I feel it’s testing my trust in humanity. We have people panic buying, committing racist crimes and being told to wash their hands....basic hygiene. And then we’re meant to trust each other to self isolate. Strikes me that this virus is showing all that is wrong. Greed. Selfishness and Hate.


----------



## mrs phas

ive had this sent to me several times today, across social media
aplogies if youve already seen it


----------



## havoc

I’m away from home at present and did bring disinfectant wipes with me - wiped down every hard surface of my hotel room when I arrived including door handles, light switches etc. Not sure if that’s sensible or paranoid


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I'm away from home at present and did bring disinfectant wipes with me - wiped down every hard surface of my hotel room when I arrived including door handles, light switches etc. Not sure if that's sensible or paranoid


is it the kind of hotel that sends in proper maid service every day?
if yes, then its a balancing act with you needing to feel safe and happy
if not
definitley yes, totally sensible in fact id be like those on 4 in a bed, sheets off, plug traps out, the lot

either way, paranoia doesnt even come into it


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> is it the kind of hotel that sends in proper maid service every day?


Yes. What sort of dives do you imagine me in . Still not sure they'd pay attention to things like light switches or the tv remote.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Yes. What sort of dives do you imagine me in . Still not sure they'd pay attention to things like light switches or the tv remote.


i only meant a travelthingy or where a certain black comedian sleeps
theyre well known for barely changing the bedding between users, never mind a proper deep clean

and yes, a good maid service will most definitly include light switches and tv remotes, even if its just you in there for a few days


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> i only meant a travelthingy or where a certain black comedian sleeps
> theyre well known for barely changing the bedding between users, never mind a proper deep clean


Really? As it happens those chains have never appealed and they definitely don't now you've told me that!


----------



## Jonescat

Someone asked me not to attend their office today - could we rearrange our meeting ? I suspect it will be months before I get a new date.


----------



## MollySmith

If you have wipes be mindful of where you dispose of them, generally not down the loo as they do pollute the seas and rivers.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

https://fullfact.org/health/wuhan-coronavirus/

*Facts on Coronavirus*

https://fullfact.org/online/coronavirus-claims-symptoms-viral/

*Viral post about someone's uncle's coronavirus advice is not all it's cracked up to be*


----------



## SusieRainbow

https://gfycat.com/delightfulunhappyaracari-facepalm-corona-funny-edit-wow-wtf-omg-lol

Just leaving this here for your education .


----------



## Magyarmum

SusieRainbow said:


> https://gfycat.com/delightfulunhappyaracari-facepalm-corona-funny-edit-wow-wtf-omg-lol
> 
> Just leaving this here for your education .


Don't do as I do. Do as I say?


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


>


Slays 90% of germs with rancid garlic breath, and makes the other 10% too drunk to bother?


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> Slays 90% of germs with rancid garlic breath, and makes the other 10% too drunk to bother?


I feel like the UK version would be Lemsip and daytime tv!!:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Slays 90% of germs with rancid garlic breath, and makes the other 10% too drunk to bother?


And as a bonus repels vampires


----------



## cheekyscrip

R


Jesthar said:


> Slays 90% of germs with rancid garlic breath, and makes the other 10% too drunk to bother?


I seriously plan to stock up on garlic and alcohol, best natural antibiotic and best natural disinfectant.

Plus if quarantined with family for two weeks I will need it, drop dead seriously.


----------



## purringcats

I got talking to an old lady in Wilkos today and she was telling me how hard it is to get toilet roll and paracetomol. I listened intently to her and said it must be getting bad. I then turned around and the 3 shelves behind me had rows stacked full of toilet roll on them. As I purchased bird seed for the bird table I have in my garden there was plenty of paracetomol near the till.


----------



## havoc

I drove back home this afternoon and stopped at a supermarket for a loo break. Normally on a Friday at this time I'd have to really search for a spot to park but today I had half the car park available. Guess people are shopping online.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

purringcats said:


> I got talking to an old lady in Wilkos today and she was telling me how hard it is to get toilet roll and paracetomol. I listened intently to her and said it must be getting bad. I then turned around and the 3 shelves behind me had rows stacked full of toilet roll on them. As I purchased bird seed for the bird table I have in my garden there was plenty of paracetomol near the till.


Australia is panic buying toilet rolls. Why just toilet rolls? I guess it's to sneeze and cough into but how many rolls does one need? Bidets are best for washing bums anyway ☺


----------



## catz4m8z

It would be a funny old world if people were panic buying bidets though!


(have to admit I am going to buy extra dog food. I cant get it locally and it would worry me if delivery was affected. Not so bothered about people supplies though! I really doubt we are going to run out of food or toilet rolls).


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> It would be a funny old world if people were panic buying bidets though!
> 
> (have to admit I am going to buy extra dog food. I cant get it locally and it would worry me if delivery was affected. Not so bothered about people supplies though! I really doubt we are going to run out of food or toilet rolls).


Me too, Molly has enough but I checked in case. I am one of those people who buys tins of beans when I already have some. Probably enough beans for a stew to last weeks!


----------



## Happy Paws2

There isn't a toilet roll in sight at the Sainsbury's by us, NO hand gel or liquid hand soap of any kind, and as someone else said ( I can't find the post ) I brought a packet of Dettol bathroom wipes to wipe my hands and scooter handles when I come out of the supermarket and that was the last packet in the store. 

Oh and yesterday I had the last two tins of potatoes.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> I absolutely think supermarkets need to start to clamp down on people panic buying anything. It's ludicrous


Saw a woman loading seven (kg) bags of sugar into her over-filled trolley and still trying to cram more into it.


----------



## MollySmith

Popped out this morning for birthday cake ingredients and no panic buying here. I picked up neighbours shopping from M&S and the staff said it was a bit mad mid week but they had enough loo rolls and the regular non-bacterial soap which is perfectly fine, was in stock.


----------



## MollySmith




----------



## MollySmith

And this if you're feeling worried, which I was earlier this week after several meetings at the university on preparing for close down. I run my own business and work part time/side hustle and it's going well but they've asked me to be prepared to go back full time which means potential loss of all my clients who are already booked in. That and I have family in Singapore.

https://www.anxietyuk.org.uk/blog/health-and-other-forms-of-anxiety-and-coronavirus/


----------



## Cully

My son was furious yesterday when he couldn't get any dust masks. He works in the building trade and needs them. Those sort of masks are no good for protection against a virus as the weave of the fabric is too large.


----------



## willa

Risen to 206 cases as of 7am thismorning. So by now will be more


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51781018

*Coronavirus: UK still 'in containment phase' of virus response*


----------



## mrs phas

in tesco, Sudbury suffolk today
no loo roll
no hand sanitizer
no liquid soap
no pasta
no tuna
no mayonaise
barely any b beans
people buying bread by the tray, (greggs were closed just after lunch, as they no longer bake their own bread)
bottled water emptying by the minute ( tap water anyone?)
baby wipes low stock


----------



## willa

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51781018
> 
> *Coronavirus: UK still 'in containment phase' of virus response*


What does this mean ?


----------



## kimthecat

When to town early. It was quiet and M&S was nearly empty which made shopping a lot easier. The pound shop had loads of toilet rolls. My sister said Lidl shelves were nearly empty of canned goods.


----------



## havoc

The toilet rolls thing has me perplexed but I do have some sympathy with people stocking up in case they are ill and can't get out. I don't feel we're being given the information we need to ensure we are sensibly prepared without buying too much. The vast majority of us will likely be somewhere in between 'so mild you'll hardly have symptoms' and 'so ill it may be fatal'. We'll be expected to stay home and self medicate - so how long does that last, how much paracetamol should someone have to deal with the fever and headache? If you don't know then you make sure you have 'enough' which is probably too much and leads to shortages in the shops.


----------



## Magyarmum

willa said:


> What does this mean ?


It tells you in the BBC article.


----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> What does this mean ?


People are taking advice from medical experts and self isolating themselves and seeking medical help if needed.

The virus is contained at this stage of things. No need to panic or go in a frenzy about things at this stage.


----------



## Siskin

Had a quick chat with my daughter this morning and I asked her if she and her fiancé are going to be working from home, they live in central London.
She said that although she works in a theatre her job, head of marketing, rarely brings her into contact with many people and she feels hand washing regularly is fine for now. Her fiancé is a practice manager for a team of architects and only meets them really. They both cycle to work most days. Does worry me though.

I'm just keeping clear of everything and everybody, getting a bit paranoid I think. I'm supposed to be going to the Birmingham hospital, but not exactly sure what for as ive had all the tests. I think it's just to discuss my diagnosis, if so I'll ask if he can do it over the phone. It seems ridiculous to sit in a packed waiting area of a hospital with this virus around.


----------



## CollieSlave

We live in mid-Wales. At present Wales has only two cases of coronavirus (Cardiff and Swansea). I wonder what will happen with the start of the holiday season - folk will be visiting Wales from all over the UK and possibly bringing the virus with them to spread far and wide: this is worrying! Wales (particularly mid and north Wales) has a number of narrow-gauge steam railways which carry very large numbers of people each year (hundreds of thousands in total): the carriages would make ideal virus spreading environments - and there may be more visitors than usual if folk avoid going abroad and holiday at home. The situation could well result in many more cases in Wales, and the potential for visitors to acquire the virus and transport it home with them! Many stay in holiday cottages and could, presumably, leave virus traces on the premises at the time of leaving, given that the next lot of visitors are likely to arrive within a few hours!


----------



## havoc

CollieSlave said:


> Wales (particularly mid and north Wales) has a number of narrow-gauge steam railways which carry very large numbers of people each year (hundreds of thousands in total


The London Underground has around 5 million passenger journeys per day. I should think the biggest worry for for a leisure railway will be the lack of tourists.


----------



## MollySmith

The hope is that the virus will subside as we approach the end of the main flu season. I caught pneumonia in Feb and finally got better by April and was theoretically okay to mingle. I think the government have said May. It means some attractions might struggle for guests over Easter perhaps.

We are going away next week to Scotland and will continue to be out and about.


----------



## Dogloverlou

We braved Crufts today. Huge amount of people, ideal conditions for virus transmission, but you have to weigh the small risks with the larger picture. Out of 20+ thousand tested only 200 or so have come back positive. No one I was mingling with at Crufts today we're in the least bit worried. We was sitting close, talking face to face just inches from each other, people were hand shaking etc etc. Also, on s side note, Crufts went on and on about their enhanced measures to protect the public with more hand sanitisers about etc. I saw none apart from two in the ladies toilets! I expected little hand washing stations around the halls somehow.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/coronavirus-latest-confirmed-cases-uk-17880714

According to this link there had been a confirmed case in my Borough and in two neigbouring boroughs however it could be due to the hospitals having isolation areas for coronavirus patients and being able to treat them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> in tesco, Sudbury suffolk today
> no loo roll
> no hand sanitizer
> no liquid soap
> no pasta
> no tuna
> no mayonaise
> barely any b beans
> people buying bread by the tray, (greggs were closed just after lunch, as they no longer bake their own bread)
> bottled water emptying by the minute ( tap water anyone?)
> baby wipes low stock


I'm surprised that stores aren't preventing the panic buying tbh.

Very easy to limit individuals to a max number of an item as they've done before.

Those greedy individuals are creating the shortages.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Someone posted this elsewhere


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> Those greedy individuals are creating the shortages.


Are they greedy or worried? If I'm totally honest I could be reacting differently myself if I still had a young family to cater for. Something starts the rush for sure and I still cannot for the life of me understand why toilet rolls became the issue but I can see why people start to panic.

It really isn't helped by government ministers claiming there are plans in place with the supermarkets which are then immediately refuted by supermarket execs.


----------



## purringcats

People are panic buying hand gel, hand wash etc and selling it online at inflated prices. One seller online is selling hand gel for £120. Absolutely disgusting people are doing this.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> People are panic buying hand gel, hand wash etc and selling it online at inflated prices. One seller online is selling hand gel for £120. Absolutely disgusting people are doing this.


I doubt anyone is stupid enough to pay those prices. A bottle of vodka is still easy enough to buy and probably cheaper than hand sanitiser was before the spike in demand.


----------



## Cully

I think the Govt should bring in rationing so that everyone gets what they are entitled to take off the shelves and no more.
The problem might be in implementing it.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> I think the Govt should bring in rationing so that everyone gets what they are entitled to take off the shelves and no more.
> The problem might be in implementing it.


What exactly are people 'entitled to'?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> I think the Govt should bring in rationing so that everyone gets what they are entitled to take off the shelves and no more.
> The problem might be in implementing it.


Surely it would be much easier if the Supermarkets got their heads in gear and just limited how many items of something you can buy.


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> Surely it would be much easier if the Supermarkets got their heads in gear and just limited how many items of something you can buy.


Why should they? They are commercial organisations and their business is selling. The result would be people having to shop more often, more person to person contact and therefore more risk of transmission.


----------



## lullabydream

Some supermarkets are limiting
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/coronavirus-toilet-roll-panic-buying-3926039


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> Why should they? They are commercial organisations and their business is selling. The result would be people having to shop more often, more person to person contact and therefore more risk of transmission.


But it stop *selfish people* buying everything in the store, stopping others getting things they really need.

They have restricted things before, I can't remember what it was but you could only buy two, so why can't they now.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Surely it would be much easier if the Supermarkets got their heads in gear and just limited how many items of something you can buy.


So a person in a single household can buy the same as someone with multiple dependants?


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> I doubt anyone is stupid enough to pay those prices. A bottle of vodka is still easy enough to buy and probably cheaper than hand sanitiser was before the spike in demand.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51763775

*Coronavirus: Don't use vodka to sanitise hands*


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> So a person in a single household can buy the same as someone with multiple dependants?


Restrict only on certain things, we should still be buying what we normally buy each week and not emptying the shelves, stopping others getting what they need. It's just *SELFISH .*


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> What exactly are people 'entitled to'?


I would say limiting to what would be reasonable for your circumstances. Number in your family. Are any sick or disabled. Any special dietary needs, etc. 
We had rationing during the war, and there was also petrol rationing 1973. It worked for most people if they weren't greedy.
For anyone who doesn't know how it worked, we had a ration book which we had to present each week at a named shop. It stated the amount of goods we were entitled to and the shop would issue no more. Your rations were based on personal circumstances.
I don't think it would be fair to ask supermarkets to make these decisions though. That's why I think it would need to be govt implemented.
If people just used common sense then such measures would not be needed.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

I really do not understand what everyone is panicking about - on average 120,00 people are hospitalised and 17,000 die from flu in the UK *every *year. The latest figures for coronavirus in the UK are 206 diagnosed cases with 2 deaths.
So far it would appear that this virus is less virulent than flu and the majority of people who do contract it will recover fine with no problem - only those in the "at risk" category; i.e. elderly with a serious underlying health problem are likely to have problems and need hospitalisation .

This was posted by a nurse on Facebook recently, rather puts things into perspective doesn't it ?


----------



## MollySmith

I think people are panic buying because it’s not clear. I’m the first in line to criticising this government but I think it’s very hard to predict a virus. The 28 page plan for the most severe outbreak- a pandemic - doesn’t make pleasant reading and the timing of the publication, when people are already worried, naturally escalates those feelings. Naturally the media make it worse!

Supermarket will loose money if there are city close downs and regardless of delivery services, they may have staff shortages too. However yes, I think they do need to monitor and just sense check. If someone appears with a trolley of sugar, they aren’t making shed loads of cakes - they’re panic buying. 2 or 3 bags isn’t. It’s impossible to create a rule isn’t it? We have so little from supermarkets in my house but others may need more but one imagines they have to have ‘rules’. And I guess keep an eye on the competition. If the hugely non-eco Asda is directed to take every penny by Walmart by not imposing restrictions, and Sainsbury’s or Tesco do, then Asda get more customers (and the world looses another bit of rainforest if it’s all still loo rolls..)

if you’re lucky and the community where you live haven’t abandoned them, there might be independent shops, markets and farmers markets. Our local shop, the cooperative I get my refill laundry stuff from and loos rolls has enough, and the veg box delivery are all fine....! I hope they continue to thrive. I got paracetamol from a local shop last night and he is being aware of panic buying because it’s his business so he can gently remind customers to be fair.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> Restrict only on certain things, we should still be buying what we normally buy each week and not emptying the shelves, stopping others getting what they need. It's just *SELFISH .*


But I dont shop weekly. TBH if I went into a supermarket and bought my usual it would probably look like panic buying....truth is I just hate shopping so tend to bulk buy enough stuff to last me a month or two normally!
(ironically Im waiting for a huge industrial sized container of handsoap to be delivered. Had nothing to do with coronavirus or panic buying....I was just trying to cut down on my packaging!LOL).


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> *But I dont shop weekly. *TBH if I went into a supermarket and bought my usual it would probably look like panic buying....truth is I just hate shopping so tend to bulk buy enough stuff to last me a month or two normally!
> (ironically Im waiting for a huge industrial sized container of handsoap to be delivered. Had nothing to do with coronavirus or panic buying....I was just trying to cut down on my packaging!LOL).


I don't either.... I shop nearly everyday for two reasons.

1. I can only carry so much on my scooter, I can make every three days at a push.

2. It gets me out, I hate been in the house all day.

I'm careful when I go out now, I try to go out very early before the shops get to crowded.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51763775
> 
> *Coronavirus: Don't use vodka to sanitise hands*


That's because the particular brand stated isn't strong enough - as is the case with many brands of hand sanitiser.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> Are they greedy or worried? If I'm totally honest I could be reacting differently myself if I still had a young family to cater for. Something starts the rush for sure and I still cannot for the life of me understand why toilet rolls became the issue but I can see why people start to panic.
> 
> It really isn't helped by government ministers claiming there are plans in place with the supermarkets which are then immediately refuted by supermarket execs.


I think it's reasonable to buy a few extras for the store cupboard but there have been people with trollies filled and overflowing with loo rolls or sugar or taking more of one item than they can use in six months, and I think that's going too far imo.

That kind of behaviour creates shortages which feeds into the panic.

Common sense should prevail.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> If someone appears with a trolley of sugar, they aren't making shed loads of cakes - they're panic buying.


As they are (currently) perfectly entitled to do. 
The government has better things to do at the moment than start issuing ration cards. Creating a black market is not going to help.


----------



## shadowmare

My mum messaged me today asking if I’d like her to send me a parcel with some paracetamol and toilet paper as the news back home we’re talking about the crazy stuff going on here  told her I think the government is just carrying out an exercise to see how prepared the country is for no deal Brexit. 
Scotland seems to be quite sensible so far. Not seen any issues with any of the toilet paper, sanitisers or soap stuff  though last night I couldn’t get any IrnBru in the big Asda...


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I got paracetamol from a local shop last night and he is being aware of panic buying because it's his business so he can gently remind customers to be fair.


It's a restricted product anyway. Some chemists have moved to behind the counter - because it's small and easily pocketed. They're still selling exactly the same amount per transaction they could before.


----------



## catz4m8z

shadowmare said:


> Scotland seems to be quite sensible so far. Not seen any issues with any of the toilet paper, sanitisers or soap stuff  though last night I couldn't get any IrnBru in the big Asda...


You're making that up!:Hilarious Although TBH round here Id except more panic buying of booze and scratchcards!LOL

The one concession Im making is visiting my parents sooner then I was going to. They are both elderly and my mother has health problems, working in a hospital I dont want to wait and risk exposing them to all the germs I'll no doubt be covered in!


----------



## Magyarmum

No problem where I live but this is what's happening in Budapest.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-coronavirus-supermarkets-panic-buying/

*Hungarians Emptying Shelves of Supermarkets Although No Coranavirus Case Confirmed in Country*


----------



## havoc

Can someone PLEASE tell me why toilet roll became the priority? There was no shortage, there is no shortage, as far as i’m aware there’s no issue in the supply chain. It’s a media induced stupidity.


----------



## willa

Watching BBC News reporting on the Coronavirus & the presenter kept sneezing & full of cold.


----------



## Nonnie

Really annoyed about people buying pain relief they dont need - i have a severe spinal problem at the moment, and am on high dose ibuprofen. Havent been able to get any in the last two days which has left me in agony and housebound. 

Dont even understand stocking up on bog roll - just have a wash in the shower if you run out! Of all things to worry about, toilet paper shouldnt be one of them as there are simple and already available at home alternatives.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...ser_Text_Story1&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter

*First coronavirus case confirmed in North Tyneside*
Another case in Newcastle has also been confirmed bringing the total number of cases on Tyneside to four


----------



## Happy Paws2

Nonnie said:


> Really annoyed about people buying pain relief they dont need - i have a severe spinal problem at the moment, and am on high dose ibuprofen. Havent been able to get any in the last two days which has left me in agony and housebound.


We Both can only take Paracetamol for pain, OH half for arthritis I have get bad muscular pain, I normally buy the limited allowed every 7 to 10 days, have been able to get any for nearly a week and we are nearly out of them.

*edited for spelling*


----------



## Nonnie

Happy Paws2 said:


> We Both can only take Paracetamol for pain, OH half for arthritis I have get bad muscular pain, I normally buy the limited allowed very 7 to 10 days, have been able to get any for nearly a week and we are nearly out of them.


I have plenty of paracetamol as i used to get it on prescription (200 tablets at a time - yay!) and still purchased the maximum amount OTC, along with codeine, but i dont like taking the later unless i need to as its addictive.

I need the anti-inflammatory properties of the ibuprofen as well.

Will have to see if i can get something on prescription, as my local surgery no longer provides OTC medicines on prescription.


----------



## Boxer123

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51790375

Tesco has started.


----------



## Jobeth

havoc said:


> Can someone PLEASE tell me why toilet roll became the priority? There was no shortage, there is no shortage, as far as i'm aware there's no issue in the supply chain. It's a media induced stupidity.


----------



## havoc

I just nipped to my local(ish) Lidl for a few bits and can report they have toilet rolls, paracetamol, ibuprofen etc. etc. etc. - none of which I purchased. The only thing obviously missing from their shelves was liquid soap for hand washing.

Now if I hadn't been able to get a carrot cake I would have been upset


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> I have plenty of paracetamol as i used to get it on prescription (200 tablets at a time - yay!) and still purchased the maximum amount OTC, along with codeine, but i dont like taking the later unless i need to as its addictive.
> 
> I need the anti-inflammatory properties of the ibuprofen as well.
> 
> Will have to see if i can get something on prescription, as my local surgery no longer provides OTC medicines on prescription.


I can really understand how you feel as I need regular painkillers to keep down pain at the moment. Can't seem to get OTC pills on prescription from my doctors either. I really don't mind paying for them but irritated beyond belief that I can't buy enough for a week in one go and have to keep driving to the nearest shop to get some more every four days. And now there is the problem of healthy not ill and not needing painkiller people madly buying up every painkiller available just in case. At the moment a larger village not too far away which has a few shops seems to have aspirin and paracetamol in stock, hope it lasts.


----------



## purringcats

*Covid19 Current stats*

107,646 Confirmed Cases of Coronoavirus Worldwide at the time of posting this post.

60,922 have recovered from Coronavirus.

3,660 have died from Coronavirus.

43,064 Currently Infected Patients of which 37,023 (86%) are in Mild Condition and 6,041 (14%) are in a Serious or Critical condition.

64,582 Cases which had an outcome:

60,922 (94%) Recovered / Discharged

3,660 (6%) Deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Approx 7.8 billion people live in this world.

Is it really necessary to panic at the moment emptying the shops and depriving those that are not panicking from not being able to get essential goods like toilet roll and hand gel etc?


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Can someone PLEASE tell me why toilet roll became the priority? There was no shortage, there is no shortage, as far as i'm aware there's no issue in the supply chain. It's a media induced stupidity.


I've no idea. I think it started in Australia but I don't know why. If only we could apply the same level of panic to planting trees or other helpful things.


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> At the moment a larger village not too far away which has a few shops seems to have aspirin and paracetamol in stock, hope it lasts


Yesterday I noticed there were plenty in the Poundstretcher I was in and my local Lidl had plenty today. Either the panic buying is in very specific areas or maybe the less obvious outlets aren't being hit as badly as the major chains.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> Either the panic buying is in very specific areas or maybe the less obvious outlets aren't being hit as badly as the major chains.


Would be interesting to know if its close to areas with confirmed cases. That might make people abit panicky (esp with the media s***stirring as usual).


----------



## willa

Saw someone say we are in a worse position now then Italy was a few weeks ago ( with number of cases) ,.... look what’s happened to Italy now !! Let’s hope we don’t end up like them


----------



## Nonnie

Siskin said:


> I can really understand how you feel as I need regular painkillers to keep down pain at the moment. Can't seem to get OTC pills on prescription from my doctors either. I really don't mind paying for them but irritated beyond belief that I can't buy enough for a week in one go and have to keep driving to the nearest shop to get some more every four days. And now there is the problem of healthy not ill and not needing painkiller people madly buying up every painkiller available just in case. At the moment a larger village not too far away which has a few shops seems to have aspirin and paracetamol in stock, hope it lasts.


My village has the typical small shop which has nothing. Next village over (MUCH larger) is/was sold out across the board when i tried to get some. Its just stupid.

I dont drive so cant go further afield. I can usually go in every 2 - 3 weeks, do the rounds of all the shops buying the maximum of 2 packets of generic (can not afford nurofen) and that sees me through.

I dont want anything on prescription as it will be much more potent, but now i probably wont have a choice.


----------



## willa

My parents live in Berkshire which is where the first death was confirmed. Yes it’s a big county, but there is still a shortage of toilet roll, mum had to go into boots to get a prescription & all toilet paper, hand wash and sanitizer was gone by mid morninf


----------



## HarlequinCat

I think toilet roll is most noticeable because it's so bulky. Within a delivery to a supermarket there is only so many that can be loaded. Also, it looks like a lot on the shelves but there isnt that many "units" so it looks worse when its empty.

If a family usually buy one pack, but buy 2 instead, and each family did that, it would quickly deplete. I've not seen anyone buy mountains of the stuff.

It's different with food. Theres such a range and everyone prefers different things. With toilet roll, it's pretty much standard. And something every household uses. That's why it seems extreme when the shelves are empty. And as they empty people think they should buy some because it wouldn't be very fun to run out.

It doesn't mean people are being selfish. 

The coronavirus is an unknown. People alive now haven't been through anything like the Spanish flu. It obviously doesn't help when newspapers dramatise everything, and inflate people's anxieties. It's frustrating, but understandable. Especially when they show empty shelves in China and Italy, or when they shut down whole areas, again like in China and Italy.

People say it's no worse than flu. But flu is horrible as a healthy person. And the flu has a rate of something like 0.07%. So far this has around 3.4%, it seems like not much of a difference, but it significant, and that will partly be because at the moment there is no vaccine for the vulnerable.

But yes, panicking never helps, but it is good to be aware etc.


----------



## kimthecat

shadowmare said:


> My mum messaged me today asking if I'd like her to send me a parcel with some paracetamol and toilet paper as the news back home we're talking about the crazy stuff going on here  told her I think the government is just carrying out an exercise to see how prepared the country is for no deal Brexit.
> Scotland seems to be quite sensible so far. Not seen any issues with any of the toilet paper, sanitisers or soap stuff  though last night I couldn't get any IrnBru in the big Asda...


Scotland haven't been stock piling soap or toilet paper . Hmm , wonder why that is . 

painkillers are restricted , 3 packets only , a law was brought in some years ago to limit it to help stop committing suicide from over doses. .
A small shopkeeper tweeted telling people to use their local corner shop etc , they have toilet rolls etc . Ours do .

Saw a video on Twitter filmed in an Australian store , women fighting over toilet rolls , Blimey !

Its good to see people havent lost their sense of humour .

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236645801855782913


----------



## Billbailey

The thing is though, panic-buying is self-defeating. Pointless you having nice clean hands if no-one else does. It needs everyone to be clean to stop it spreading. It needs a community response, not a selfish one.


----------



## willa

Cases up to 273, media are living for this, they love all the hype.
Apparently biggest leap in cases so far


----------



## Billbailey

The reason for panic buying toilet roll in Australia is that most of their supply is made in China and a rumour went round that imports were about to stop. It has now spread to other countries due to the power of social media.


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> Pointless you having nice clean hands if no-one else does.


It isn't pointless. The two big things are wash your hands often and don't touch your face. The virus enters through the mucous membranes - eyes, nose, mouth. If you have the virus on your hands and put your hands to your face then you have given it the means of entry. If you either don't touch your face at all or wash your hands *properly* before touching it you will greatly reduce the chances of transmission.


----------



## Billbailey

Ermmm.... my point was that to stop the virus spreading far and wide everyone needs to wash their hands more often. So someone with 27 bottles of anti-bac in their cupboard is no safer than only having one. And they have put other people at risk. And not just from the virus.

from FB:


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> So someone with 27 bottles of anti-bac in their cupboard is no safer than only having one. And they have put other people at risk.


Hand gels have to be at least 60% alcohol to be effective as an alternative to proper hand washing with ordinary soap and water. I'd hazard a guess that many people have paid for totally ineffective products. The false sense of security from using such stuff is more dangerous than idiots hoarding it.


----------



## Billbailey

Ok. I don't know if you are deliberately misunderstanding me or what so I'll just leave this particular strand of the thread alone. God loves a pedant.....


----------



## HarlequinCat

Billbailey said:


> Ermmm.... my point was that to stop the virus spreading far and wide everyone needs to wash their hands more often. So someone with 27 bottles of anti-bac in their cupboard is no safer than only having one. And they have put other people at risk. And not just from the virus.
> 
> from FB:
> 
> View attachment 432966


Drs have said any soap will work just fine, long as you wash them for 20 seconds plus . And theres plenty of the ordinary handwash around so shouldn't be a problem there


----------



## kimthecat

All this is basic hygiene . Wash your hands after you use the toilet before meals , use a hanky etc. We were taught this as kids. I can still hear my mum saying Did you wash your hands? :Hilarious


----------



## willa

Waitrose thismorning. Stock of toilet roll gone 2 hours after opening thismorning apparently


----------



## Gemmaa

We have no pasta in local stores, but plenty of pasta sauces....there's going to be some really bland, post apocalypse dinners! :Facepalm

Happy to see my neighbours are staying grounded, and just bitching about parking :Hilarious


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> Ok. I don't know if you are deliberately misunderstanding me


All I did was respond to what you posted. I'm not sure what I've done wrong.


----------



## Billbailey

havoc said:


> All I did was respond to what you posted. I'm not sure what I've done wrong.


Not wrong as such, just answering points I didn't make. But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.


----------



## HarlequinCat

2 cases confirmed in the Bournemouth Christchurch Poole area

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...ople-test-positive-covid-19-bournemouth-area/


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

No hand gels anywhere. Asda isle was empty. The only thing I've stocked up on is cat food. I haven't got anything for myself yet.



Calvine said:


> Saw a woman loading seven (kg) bags of sugar into her over-filled trolley and still trying to cram more into it.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> New Waitrose thismorning. Stock of toilet roll gone 2 hours after opening thismorning apparently


 Crazy: how long before they start queuing all night, like some do before the sales, then crashing thro' the doors as they open and fighting in the aisles!


----------



## O2.0

Am I the only one not doing anything differently? 

I really don't get the big deal. It's the flu. We don't freak out over the flu every year....


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Am I the only one not doing anything differently?


Probably
I'm not in any panic because I am resigned to getting it. 'Confirmed' cases will be the tip of the iceberg as there are apparently some people who barely have symptoms. I am taking sensible precautions re hand washing and I did wipe switches and door handles in my hotel room when I first arrived in it last week. I know people who do that anyway. Mainly I'm concentrating on my own health, my greatest protection is my own immune system and general health.


----------



## Jason25

Well makro was sold out of toilet paper, there were none left at all :Hilarious
Out of all the things to panic buy, toilet roll is the worst hit? 

No panic buying for me lol although the bucket of ice cream looked very tempting :Hilarious


----------



## havoc

Yesterday morning BBC Breakfast talked about plans to stop over 60s attending large events such as football matches. This has been translated in the mind of our local village idiot into it being only older people who spread the disease. My neighbour is just back from the pub and told me.


----------



## Boxer123

My mum always has an apocalyptic amount of toilet roll I will be heading there if I get short. I am getting quite worried just because my mum has bad asthma and my Nan is currently battling cancer.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Am I the only one not doing anything differently?
> 
> I really don't get the big deal. It's the flu. We don't freak out over the flu every year....


You're not alone because when I went shopping last Sunday it never occurred to me to buy extra. And it didn't occur to me either when I had to drive into the city on Wednesday to take the boys to the groomer. I won't be going out again until we go to training next Wednesday and on the way back I'll drop into our local Penny Market to buy some plant milk and anything else I might need.


----------



## purringcats

O2.0 said:


> I really don't get the big deal. It's the flu. We don't freak out over the flu every year....


It is the media and the Government causing people to panic and stockpile.


----------



## purringcats

O2.0 said:


> Am I the only one not doing anything differently?


I am not doing anything differently. Still going out doing what I do everyday and still doing my normal shop each week. Why should I change what I do?


----------



## willa

Kensington and Chelsea is number 3 on the list for confirmed cases in the UK. 
Trust me to live & work in that borough


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> Am I the only one not doing anything differently?
> 
> I really don't get the big deal. It's the flu. We don't freak out over the flu every year....


It's because it's an unknown flu and there is a risk it might mutate into something more serious .


----------



## kimthecat

Jason25 said:


> Well makro was sold out of toilet paper, there were none left at all :Hilarious
> Out of all the things to panic buy, toilet roll is the worst hit?
> 
> No panic buying for me lol although the bucket of ice cream looked very tempting :Hilarious


If I run out of loo roll I just use tissues or kitchen roll


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> I am getting quite worried just because my mum has bad asthma and my Nan is currently battling cancer.


That's a legitimate worry. Are they in a position to take precautions, keep contact with others to a minimum? I was worried about a very elderly relative in a nursing home but she relieved me of that concern by passing away last week - not Coronavirus related.


----------



## purringcats

kimthecat said:


> If I run out of loo roll I just use tissues or kitchen roll


Newspaper or magazines as a last resort here


----------



## willa

I know Kensington & Chelsea is big. But not gonna lie now feel a bit paranoid . My headmistress will now be even more paranoid about all this when she realises !


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> That's a legitimate worry. Are they in a position to take precautions, keep contact with others to a minimum? I was worried about a very elderly relative in a nursing home but she relieved me of that concern by passing away last week - not Coronavirus related.


Sorry to hear this


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> It is the media and the Government causing people to panic and stockpile.


Partly, and partly it's just the way people are. The shops are only closed for one day at Christmas but people feel the need to buy enough to see them through a nuclear winter.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> Sorry to hear this


Thank you but please don't be. I shed plenty of tears when she was alive and existing with horrendous dementia but not a one in the last week.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> Am I the only one not doing anything differently?
> 
> I really don't get the big deal. It's the flu. We don't freak out over the flu every year....


I think that flu is a known disease though. We have a history with it and so are used to dealing with it. Im pretty sure if/when this one causes problems it wont be because of how serious or deadly it is, it will be because of the infection rates. High infection rates are going to put huge strain on the health services, probably over a shorter period of time then something like winter flu.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> If I run out of loo roll I just use tissues or kitchen roll


Please don't put kitchen roll down the loo though

I shall resort to buying the daily mail
Or
Go really old school and buy the equivalent today of Izal
Couple of sheets of greaseproof anyone?


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> Go really old school and buy the equivalent today of Izal
> Couple of sheets of greaseproof anyone?



I did wonder if that was available. Does it still exist and if so who on earth buys it?


----------



## Boxerluver30

I think its been made into a complete sh*t show by the media which is whats caused all the ridiculous panic buying and worry. I really liked the post earlier (sorry can't remember who it was) giving the figures on confirmed cases compared to survivals/deaths. A TINY percentage have died from it, and yes whilst that is very sad for those people and their families/friends, what about all those that have recovered? I mean come on?! I really do want to tell all the main media to stfu about it now as its starting to get on my nerves. 

Report on how to protect yourselves? Fine, thats useful information. Report on how the virus itself affects the human body? Again useful info. Even saying what the worldwide situation is is helpful. But please don't make out that its suddenly this massive post apocalyptic pandemic thats going to kill us all. Viruses like this pop up a lot, and it takes us a while to get back on our feet afterwards but we manage. I know its easy for me to say all this as a healthy individual without a compromised immune system. I hope those who are at risk stay safe.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxerluver30 said:


> I think its been made into a complete sh*t show by the media which is whats caused all the ridiculous panic buying and worry. I really liked the post earlier (sorry can't remember who it was) giving the figures on confirmed cases compared to survivals/deaths. A TINY percentage have died from it, and yes whilst that is very sad for those people and their families/friends, what about all those that have recovered? I mean come on?! I really do want to tell all the main media to stfu about it now as its starting to get on my nerves.
> 
> Report on how to protect yourselves? Fine, thats useful information. Report on how the virus itself affects the human body? Again useful info. Even saying what the worldwide situation is is helpful. But please don't make out that its suddenly this massive post apocalyptic pandemic thats going to kill us all. Viruses like this pop up a lot, and it takes us a while to get back on our feet afterwards but we manage. I know its easy for me to say all this as a healthy individual without a compromised immune system. I hope those who are at risk stay safe.


I agree, we do need to know how to protect ourselves, but the media are the ones that are the causing panic. 
I know I'm in the vulnerable group with my age and my health problems but I'm not a child, I now know what I need to do to protect myself and not to do anything silly without the media trying to frighten me to death. If I listened to everything they say I'd be wrapped in cotton wool and not moving from my armchair.


----------



## tyg'smum

First outbreak confirmed in my area: I've decided to keep calm and carry on. The corner shop is still well-stocked, and I keep plenty of tissues and hand sanitizer anyway.

How this will affect visitor numbers at the historic property I volunteer at remains to be seen...


----------



## purringcats

Boxerluver30 said:


> I really liked the post earlier (sorry can't remember who it was) giving the figures on confirmed cases compared to survivals/deaths. A TINY percentage have died from it, and yes whilst that is very sad for those people and their families/friends, what about all those that have recovered? I mean come on?!


I think that was my post.


----------



## Boxerluver30

purringcats said:


> I think that was my post.
> View attachment 432976


Yes thats the one, thank you for that post. This is what the media should be reporting. But unfortunately that doesn't make a good story


----------



## purringcats

The press needs to report facts not panic everyone.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Please don't put kitchen roll down the loo though


Oh dear.  I do that sometimes, like when one of the dogs has been sick or pooped inside.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I did wonder if that was available. Does it still exist and if so who on earth buys it?


not sure, not available on amazon
but i did find this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DRGR...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## mrs phas

Boxerluver30 said:


> Yes thats the one, thank you for that post. This is what the media should be reporting. But unfortunately that doesn't make a good story


or mine on thursday 



mrs phas said:


> ive had this sent to me several times today, across social media
> aplogies if youve already seen it
> 
> View attachment 432802


----------



## Boxerluver30

mrs phas said:


> or mine on thursday


Exactly, common sense people!!


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> I did wonder if that was available. Does it still exist and if so who on earth buys it?


My close friend I went to school with.. His step dad used to use it.. It was still available in the early 2000s in supermarkets then! As I couldn't believe it when he mentioned it so of course spotted it in supermarkets from then on.. His step dad was slightly odd.. Lovely man though I thought.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Oh dear.  I do that sometimes, like when one of the dogs has been sick or pooped inside.


Same here.. I swear it's basically like some toilet roll you can buy.

To add to the topic.. 
This handwashing malarkey, wearing or buying face masks I wonder if people would stop if they realised they are actually doing it not to protect themselves but to protect others more so from them. From the panic buying it seems that people are utterly selfish.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Same here.. I swear it's basically like some toilet roll you can buy.
> 
> To add to the topic..
> This handwashing malarkey, wearing or buying face masks I wonder if people would stop if they realised they are actually doing it not to protect themselves but to protect others more so from them. From the panic buying it seems that people are utterly selfish.


but the handwashing is just plain hygeine
something that should be drummed into us from childhood surely


----------



## willa

tyg'smum said:


> First outbreak confirmed in my area: I've decided to keep calm and carry on. The corner shop is still well-stocked, and I keep plenty of tissues and hand sanitizer anyway.
> 
> How this will affect visitor numbers at the historic property I volunteer at remains to be seen...


My borough that I live and work in,In London is the 3rd highest for cases in UK Still very much a keep calm and carry on situation. Will be interesting to see what my work place make of it should it continue to increase


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> but the handwashing is just plain hygeine
> something that should be drummed into us from childhood surely


Well it is.. But how many people know how to do efficiently is one thing.. Saying that I have 2 rings that I wear that I can never get off currently.. So they harbour everything doesn't matter how efficiently I wash my hands. Many people do.. 
Also many people forget the wrist area whilst washing too. 
I can be an pedantic about handwashing as I was trained to do it, and been faced with 'wash your hands properly leaflets' day in day out but not everyone does or take notice. These notices only appear in health care settings as the norm anyway.


----------



## mrs phas

i want to know where the british stoicism went
we'd hve never won the war with all this going on :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> i want to know where the british stoicism went
> we'd hve never won the war with all this going on :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


Hmmm. British stoicism comes to the fore when there is no other option. People took the opportunity to further their own ends when possible during the war. There wouldn't have been a thriving black market without willing customers.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Hmmm. British stoicism comes to the fore when there is no other option. People took the opportunity to further their own ends when possible during the war. There wouldn't have been a thriving black market without willing customers.


oh i know
turns out that my grandfather, on my fathers side, wasnt always the gentleman i knew him as
he was a spiv during the war, known as tea leaf tom
he used to go round all the west end hotels, ritz , savoy etc
taking all the used tea leaves
hed take them home, then my nan would dry them out in the oven
and bobs your uncle, bags of tea, off ration


----------



## purringcats

3rd Person has died in North Manchester General Hospital. A man in his 60's had "significant underlying health conditions".

He had also recently returned from a trip in Italy.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-to-die-in-uk-after-testing-positive-11953382

The human immune system is able to fight this virus off but there seems to be a pattern about those that are dying from the virus. They seem to already have underlying health conditions, elderly and returning to the UK from countries struggling to contain the virus.


----------



## Billbailey




----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> 3rd Person has died in North Manchester General Hospital. A man in his 60's had "significant underlying health conditions".


It seems quite bleak but remember we aren't getting reports of those who recover. We don't get - a man who was a confirmed case but who hardly even felt ill has now been cleared. Currently someone who has once tested positive has to have three consecutive negative results (I think each a week apart) to be declared clear. It isn't a system which lends itself to good news.


----------



## catz4m8z

purringcats said:


> The human immune system is able to fight this virus off but there seems to be a pattern about those that are dying from the virus. They seem to already have underlying health conditions, elderly and returning to the UK from countries struggling to contain the virus.


Thats the thing...if you are elderly, frail and have multiple underlying health issues then really anything could be fatal. The flu, a bad cold or tummy bug...you dont need a posh new virus to do it. For most people you are just looking at abit of a cough and feeling rough for a few days.
Hardly worthy of panic.


----------



## Jesthar

willa said:


> Waitrose thismorning. Stock of toilet roll gone 2 hours after opening thismorning apparently


Saw this on the 'Overheard in Waitrose' FB page today - whoever wrote it has a MEAN sense of humour


----------



## purringcats

catz4m8z said:


> Thats the thing...if you are elderly, frail and have multiple underlying health issues then really anything could be fatal. The flu, a bad cold or tummy bug...you dont need a posh new virus to do it. For most people you are just looking at abit of a cough and feeling rough for a few days.
> Hardly worthy of panic.


I totally agree.


----------



## Jason25

Sounds like people are buying the bog roll due to the size of it, people see it flying off the shelves so stock up on it themselves. This is what good morning Britain is saying anyway lol.

Can money like the paper notes that have come into contact with someone who has the virus carry it? I don’t really use cash anymore but a lot of people still do.


----------



## havoc

Jason25 said:


> Can money like the paper notes that have come into contact with someone who has the virus carry it? I don't really use cash anymore but a lot of people still do.


I know coinage has always been considered a germ factory. I guess paper/plastic notes aren't 100% safe either but then nothing is. I don't think it's so much whether the virus can be carried on something but how long it can live on various surfaces. So far it's not known for sure so we get 'up to' guesstimates.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> I know coinage has always been considered a germ factory. I guess paper/plastic notes aren't 100% safe either but then nothing is. I don't think it's so much whether the virus can be carried on something but how long it can live on various surfaces. So far it's not known for sure so we get 'up to' guesstimates.


Reminds me of the HIV epidemic in the late 80's, early 90's in South Africa when people really had little or no idea of how you might contract it. At the hospital where I worked, an average of 30 people a week were dying of AIDS and we were testing and diagnosing over 100 people a week, which in those days was effectively sentencing them to death.


----------



## havoc

We do need to keep in mind that the vast majority recover from this. Such generalisations aren’t much comfort to those who count as vulnerable I know. My DIL is a type 1 diabetic so she’s a concern. In a way I don’t mind if people over react if it means they take ridiculous measures - all helps to keep the vulnerable minority safer.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> painkillers are restricted , 3 packets only , a law was brought in some years ago to limit it to help stop committing suicide from over doses. .
> A small shopkeeper tweeted telling people to use their local corner shop etc , they have toilet rolls etc . Ours do .


It's two everywhere I go - how do you get three?!


----------



## Bertie'sMum

MilleD said:


> It's two everywhere I go - how do you get three?!


Poundland sell 3 packets of paracetomol or ibuprofen for £1


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I did wonder if that was available. Does it still exist and if so who on earth buys it?


My Dad used to say the further you go north in the UK, the water gets softer and the loo roll gets harder.

That stuff was vile!


----------



## MilleD

Bertie'sMum said:


> Poundland sell 3 packets of paracetomol or ibuprofen for £1


Are there fewer tablet in the packs then?


----------



## MilleD

Bertie'sMum said:


> Poundland sell 3 packets of paracetomol or ibuprofen for £1


Ahh: https://www.chemistanddruggist.co.u...lam-poundland-three-packs-£1-paracetamol-deal


----------



## Magyarmum

Bertie'sMum said:


> Poundland sell 3 packets of paracetomol or ibuprofen for £1


Gosh that's cheap! Here in Hungary you can only buy paracetamol at a chemist and for a packet of 24 x 500mg Panadol you'll pay £3.25

A few weeks ago my DIL sent me a stock of tea bags and I asked her to pop two packets of paracetamol in with them because they're so much cheaper in the UK.


----------



## MilleD

Bertie'sMum said:


> Poundland sell 3 packets of paracetomol or ibuprofen for £1


It's still cheaper in Aldi, though they will only let you buy two


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> It's still cheaper in Aldi, though they will only let you buy two


Don't think we have a Poundland here anymore. It's the first place I've seen that will let you have more then 32 tablets in one go. I've always thought that if you were determined to overdose on paracetamol you would just go to different shops until you had enough.

The little chemist in a nearby village sold me 32 tablets of generic paracetamol for 89p


----------



## Bertie'sMum

MilleD said:


> Are there fewer tablet in the packs then?


No, it's the same size packs that you can buy in supermarkets or pharmacies


----------



## Dogloverlou

I haven't been shopping in over a week so an oblivious to all this ludicrous panic buying and clearing out shelves. I'm gonna do an online shop later today and it will be interesting to see whether I get many alternatives!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Went to Sainsbury's at 8 o'clock this morning hardly anyone there, A few packs of 24 loo rolls, no way could I carry one but managed to get a pack of 4, still no paracetamol, soap or hand gel.


----------



## catz4m8z

Jason25 said:


> Can money like the paper notes that have come into contact with someone who has the virus carry it? I don't really use cash anymore but a lot of people still do.


Think I read somewhere that the virus can live for up to 3 days on surfaces...not sure if its true. The whole handwashing thing and avoiding touching your face without washing hands first is a pretty good rule for life in general though!



Siskin said:


> I've always thought that if you were determined to overdose on paracetamol you would just go to different shops until you had enough.


and TBF if you are unlucky you only need one box of paracetamol to kill yourself!

Apparently my mum saw somebody stockpiling tins of baked beans in Tesco the other day. I thought it was weird at first but then realiesed that I could quite happily self isolate for a few weeks if I had plenty of beans on toast and hot chocolate!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> Think I read somewhere that the virus can live for up to 3 days on surfaces...not sure if its true. The whole handwashing thing and avoiding touching your face without washing hands first is a pretty good rule for life in general though!
> 
> and TBF if you are unlucky you only need one box of paracetamol to kill yourself!
> 
> Apparently my mum saw somebody stockpiling tins of baked beans in Tesco the other day. I thought it was weird at first but then realiesed that I could quite happily self isolate for a few weeks if I had plenty of beans on toast and hot chocolate!LOL:Hilarious


My husband would be happy on that too.

Phoned up the Birmingham hospital to see if I really needed to come given the coronavirus, but they insisited I did as I haven't seen a consultant yet. I asked if it could be done over the phone and was told firmly no, you must come. Not chuffed. Anyone got a Hasmet suit to spare plus a couple of gallons of sanitiser


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> My husband would be happy on that too.
> 
> Phoned up the Birmingham hospital to see if I really needed to come given the coronavirus, but they insisited I did as I haven't seen a consultant yet. I asked if it could be done over the phone and was told firmly no, you must come. Not chuffed. Anyone got a Hasmet suit to spare plus a couple of gallons of sanitiser


Very frustrating have you got any anti bac wipes to take ? Hopefully you will be in and out quickly.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> Very frustrating have you got any anti bac wipes to take ? Hopefully you will be in and out quickly.


No haven't been able get any, hopefully there will be plenty of sanitiser about although I have heard people are stealing them from hospitals.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> No haven't been able get any, hopefully there will be plenty of sanitiser about although I have heard people are stealing them from hospitals.


You couldn't make it up could you !


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> No haven't been able get any, hopefully there will be plenty of sanitiser about although *I have heard people are stealing them from hospitals.*


Unbelievable


----------



## HarlequinCat

Siskin said:


> No haven't been able get any, hopefully there will be plenty of sanitiser about although I have heard people are stealing them from hospitals.


You have to wonder at some people!

Hope your appointment goes ok though.


----------



## Jesthar

Boxer123 said:


> Very frustrating have you got any anti bac wipes to take ? Hopefully you will be in and out quickly.


Anti-bac stuff of any kind is limited use anyway, as this is a virus, not bacteria. That's why hand gels need to be 60+% alcohol to be worth buying from a strictly coronavius PoV.

That's why regular block soap is just as effective (if not better - no pump dispenser to touch!) as all the more expensive options. I bought a bulk pack of block soap ages ago (simply because it's cheaper that way) that will last a good few years yet, and haven't give a second thought to buying anything else.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> It's two everywhere I go - how do you get three?!


From the pound shop. Three packets for a pound .  Im pretty sure Wilkinsons is the same except they cost more. This is in outer West London.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> No haven't been able get any, hopefully there will be plenty of sanitiser about although I have heard people are stealing them from hospitals.




Our small local co op is out of loo rolls and kitchen roll today . I bet the staff took them .


----------



## Calvine

purringcats said:


> New The press needs to report facts not panic everyone.


 True: but panic and scandal sells papers, whereas cold facts do not. I think if Phillip Schofield suddenly announced he was divorcing to marry a boyfriend he would get to the top of some pages.


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> but the handwashing is just plain hygeine


 It is, you're right. Washing hands after using the lavatory etc are drummed into everyone. But some things need reminders, ie that a ''normal'' office phone carries more bacteria than a lavatory seat. Don't rely on the office cleaners, look after yourself and wipe your own phone.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> It's two everywhere I go - how do you get three?!


It might be due to packet size? There's 16 in the packets I buy.


----------



## MilleD

I stole this from another forum 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235920594186706944
I am the model of a Twitter epidemiologist 
I didn't study medicine but read online and got the gist 
I know all that there is to know about the current pathogen 
Including the location of the Chinese lab they grew it in...

I don't believe in washing hands - it's a Big Soap conspiracy
I didn't vaccinate my kids cos they've got herd immunity
And even now I'm coughing blood and oozing from a fetid cyst
I'm still the model of a Twitter epidemiologist

I make important statements all about the need to isolate 
While always making sure I have sufficient food to fill my plate. 
I do not worry overmuch about the fate of pensioners 
Coz if they die, it will reduce the long term need for social care.

I've got a thousand toilet rolls, not left my house since Christmas Eve
cover myself in alcogel if some one near should do a sneeze
I'll be first to rat on neighbours if they dare to break a quarantine,
will resort to actual violence for the final tub of margarine.

I'm queuing up at casualty to see a doctor soon as poss.. 
They said I shouldn't be here but I really couldn't give a toss 
I'm coughing and I'm sneezing and I really am not feeling well 
But since Ocado's out I have to come down here to steal hand gel.

I'm very well acquainted too with matters mathematical 
I understand equations exponential & quadratical 
About R0 infection rates I'm teeming with a lot of news 
Which I tweet out in pearls of wisdom that the world cannot refuse

I'm constantly expounding on the likelihood statistical 
That individually you and I are at no risk at all 
If you ignore the others and the need for herd immunity 
Then you and I can touch each other's faces with impunity.


----------



## Bisbow

I have just collected my repeat prescription from the chemist
I have paracamol and I got a pack of 100
Should keep me going for a while

I wondered if they would be rationed but it seems not


----------



## kimthecat

Bisbow said:


> I have just collected my repeat prescription from the chemist
> I have paracamol and I got a pack of 100
> Should keep me going for a while
> 
> I wondered if they would be rationed but it seems not


Pleased to hear that. Im glad Im over 60 and dont have to pay for my prescriptions. It would cost me a fortune. originally my doctor used to write a prescription for two months but it changed and is now monthly.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Jesthar

This popped up on FB today - a teacher in the US did an experiment using bread slices with her class to show the importance of hygiene


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> This popped up on FB today - a teacher in the US did an experiment using bread slices with her class to show the importance of hygiene


Wow. Shows how good soap and water is


----------



## willa

So the Cobra meeting was totally pointless, nothing has changed


----------



## purringcats

I am glad the status hasn't changed from contained. The UK is not at the same stages as other countries in Europe, districts in China etc. It shows that the UK is managing to currently contain those that have got the virus. The PM did state that status could change to the next level soon. But in my opinion it is good at the moment there is no need to change the status level the UK is currently at. Personally I hope the UK manages to keep the status level it is currently at.


----------



## Happy Paws2

purringcats said:


> I am glad the status hasn't changed from contained. The UK is not at the same stages as other countries in Europe, districts in China etc. It shows that the UK is managing to currently contain those that have got the virus. The PM did state that status could change to the next level soon. But in my opinion it is good at the moment there is no need to change the status level the UK is currently at. Personally I hope the UK manages to keep the status level it is currently at.


Lets hope so, fingers crossed.


----------



## Jason25

Jesthar said:


> This popped up on FB today - a teacher in the US did an experiment using bread slices with her class to show the importance of hygiene


That's pretty cool, do you know how the bread has been in the bags for?


----------



## willa

If the status level changes would be nice if it could happen next week. So I can have 2 extra weeks holiday


----------



## mrs phas

willa said:


> If the status level changes would be nice if it could happen next week. So I can have 2 extra weeks holiday


i would rather it happened before sunday
save me a trip to heathrow at 3 am


----------



## Jesthar

Jason25 said:


> That's pretty cool, do you know how the bread has been in the bags for?


Three weeks, if memory serves - it's the USA, so the preservatives they load into their bread slows the process down a lot


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Personally I hope the UK manages to keep the status level it is currently at.


Think that's probably a perfect example of hope over expectation


----------



## purringcats

The amount of cases has dropped in China yesterday/today. Authorities are keeping an eye on things hoping that this is a sign that the virus has peaked and now the virus infection rate will start dropping. Fingers crossed this is the case.


----------



## Jesthar

Saw this on FB, love the idea!  (apologies, it'll probably come up massive on non-mobile devices  )










*bows*


----------



## Calvine




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## purringcats

Went to Tesco at 8am this morning and they had limited supply of toilet roll they had just put out and I managed to get some because I needed some.

9am I was in Savers and they had some ibuprofen in which I managed to get 2 packets of as I needed some. The woman told me there was no point her stocking the shelves up with ibuprofen as they would be gone within half an hour, she left them in the delivery box and sure enough people surrounded the box and emptied it.

It is getting silly how people are acting in my opinion stockpiling toilet roll and pain killers. It is a virus and the human immune system can fight it off and is fighting it off. Alot of people are surviving the virus.


----------



## Dave S

I have just returned from a different Tesco where toilet rolls were depleted, no plan or self raising flour on the shelves, beef mince packs short.

The Chinese elderly couple behind me at the check out had a smaller trolley over flowing with - a big pack of rice, other edible items and 2x 24 packs of toilet rolls and 2x 9 packs toilet rolls - 66 in total - they must be very unhealthy!

Now I have an idea - there are lots of piles of Easter eggs - shall we start the scare of an egg shortage and take the focus away from toilet rolls?

Really cannot believe how stupid some people are about this situation.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

purringcats said:


> Went to Tesco at 8am this morning and they had limited supply of toilet roll they had just put out and I managed to get some because I needed some.
> 
> 9am I was in Savers and they had some ibuprofen in which I managed to get 2 packets of as I needed some. The woman told me there was no point her stocking the shelves up with ibuprofen as they would be gone within half an hour, she left them in the delivery box and sure enough people surrounded the box and emptied it.
> 
> It is getting silly how people are acting in my opinion stockpiling toilet roll and pain killers. It is a virus and the human immune system can fight it off and is fighting it off. Alot of people are surviving the virus.


 Not everyone will fight if off though and while the death rate is thankfully extremely low for those people who know they are vulnerable it must be worrying. I have been scoffing at all the panic buyers and merrily going about my everyday life without giving it much though except beyond what would happen to my mum if I was to catch it as no way could I go anywhere near her. Yesterday one of my mothers elderly neighbours asked me how my mum was, all the while keeping her distance, I asked how she herself was and she told me well but worried about `this blasted virus` and yes she did look worried. I felt very sorry for her as it occurred to me while I have been thinking its no worse than flu, that lady and many others like her would have considered themselves safe from flu due to the vaccination programme, they know they are not safe from coronavirus.
It got me thinking more about it, the local area is an aging population, lots and lots of retirement homes in the area , maybe just maybe, people are stripping our small local supermarket because they are doubling their normal shop for elderly, vulnerable relatives, friends, neighbours? I don't know I just know I think slightly differently about it and feel very sorry for people who are scared.


----------



## purringcats

But is it still fair whilst those that are stockpiling to deprive those that are not stockpiling of essential goods?

I understand some people are scared but have consideration for those who aren't by being sensible about things. Take what you need and leave what you don't so others have the opportunity to get some essential supplies like toilet roll and pain killers. Stop leaving shop shelves bare and be fair.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

A lot of us have elderly relatives in the risk group. My mum is 77 and has asthma. So although younger people will probably recover quickly, we are at risk of transmitting it to our parents or someone else's parents.
Today the UK death toll is 6. That's been one a day so far. If this pandemic is a bad as they say then the death rate could be quite high because no health service could cope with such high numbers.
Personally I don't believe that 80% of people will catch it. If you look at past epidemics such as Spanish flu and Swine flu less than 50% caught it. It was considerably below 50% I didn't know anyone who caught swine flu and that was a mass panic as well.

Interestingly, it's been hypothesised that the young Wuhan doctor that died got an exceptionally high dose of the virus after being in close contact with multiple patients with the virus. No evidence to support this, it was a theory given by the "SARS" Scientist.

I'm not panicking but I'm not laid back about it either.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Yes they are. My local Tescos pharmacy was very sparse last night and I had great difficulty getting what I need for the pain I'm suffering now. 


purringcats said:


> But is it still fair whilst those that are stockpiling to deprive those that are not stockpiling of essential goods?
> 
> I understand some people are scared but have consideration for those who aren't by being sensible about things. Take what you need and leave what you don't so others have the opportunity to get some essential supplies like toilet roll and pain killers. Stop leaving shop shelves bare and be fair.


----------



## havoc

MissMiloKitty said:


> If this pandemic is a bad as they say then the death rate could be quite high because no health service could cope with such high numbers


The death rate seems high partly because those are the cases which hit the news and partly because it's calculated as a percentage of diagnosed cases. There are probably a lot of undiagnosed mild cases - hundreds if not thousands. This virus does not seem to make children particularly ill. That's a good thing for children, not so much for their grandparents and others they pass it on to.


----------



## purringcats

As far as what has been put into public knowledge from the authorities is this is a respiratory virus not a bowel or bladder virus. So why toilet paper and kitchen roll? Tissues would be what you need not toilet paper or kitchen rolls. The governments are telling people to sneeze or cough into tissue and then bin it and wash your hands thoroughly afterwards.

I do not think people know how incredibly frustrating it is not being able to get toilet paper and kitchen roll and even pain killers. Some people are being incredibly selfish.

My dad is in the at risk group because he is over 60 and he is finding it annoying not being able to get toilet paper, kitchen roll and pain killers for everyday use not to stockpile. Some people are not being fair at all emptying shelves in supermarkets and shops and you see them in the queue for the till with over filled trollies and some people go as far as to sell there gains from the supermarkets and shops online at over inflated prices.


----------



## havoc

The Poundstretcher near me has a pallet load of toilet paper at the front of the shop. My local Lidl had plenty on Sunday. Both had Paracetamol and Ibuprofen. Is it that people in my area panic less? It does seem area specific.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

havoc said:


> The death rate seems high partly because those are the cases which hit the news and partly because it's calculated as a percentage of diagnosed cases. There are probably a lot of undiagnosed mild cases - hundreds if not thousands. This virus does not seem to make children particularly ill. That's a good thing for children, not so much for their grandparents and others they pass it on to.


Oh sure, that's true. The worldwide mortality percentage is high because it includes poorer countries or countries as well.


----------



## purringcats

Where I am B&M Bargains, Tescos, Poundland, Waitrose, Savers, Superdrug, Boots, Local Off Licenses are really struggling to keep up with demand and there are no cases in my area at all. No sooner are the shelves stocked they are empty again. My dad is having smiliar problems where he is as well.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

havoc said:


> The Poundstretcher near me has a pallet load of toilet paper at the front of the shop. My local Lidl had plenty on Sunday. Both had Paracetamol and Ibuprofen. Is it that people in my area panic less? It does seem area specific.


Perhaps it's just the supermarkets. All I saw was Tescos pharmacy looked like it was closing down because that's the only time I've seen such emptyness


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> The Poundstretcher near me has a pallet load of toilet paper at the front of the shop. My local Lidl had plenty on Sunday. Both had Paracetamol and Ibuprofen. Is it that people in my area panic less? It does seem area specific.


I think the media isn't helping. There wasn't shortages in my local area till our county paper stated it was bad in the city for people stock piling on Friday night.. Come Saturday the 2 supermarkets in my local town had empty shelves of hand gels, hand wash and toilet roll. Have been to the local b and Ms, boyes and savers this afternoon. Must admit didn't go down every aisle but happened upon hand-wash in each store. Each store had approximately 2 or 3 hand washes left on the shelf. The world has gone mad. I don't get it. Why haven't people thought to wash hands before. 
Although I will say plenty of cleaning products available to buy.. Disinfects, antibacterial and those that claim to kill viruses thar sort of thing..


----------



## ForestWomble

Just tried to order something I need (medical) and have just received an email stating that supply is being affected due to this virus, thankfully I have about a months supply left, hopefully I get my delivery before I run out.


----------



## lullabydream

ForestWomble said:


> Just tried to order something I need (medical) and have just received an email stating that supply is being affected due to this virus, thankfully I have about a months supply left, hopefully I get my delivery before I run out.


Fingers crossed for you!


----------



## purringcats

Here's what the NHS says:-
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/


























I apologise if this has already been put on here.


----------



## Sandysmum

I've never really bothered with sanitizing gel and antibac handwash, I usually get what's on offer when I go shopping.But seeing as I'm in 3 of the 'at risk groups', I though I'd better go and get some. So off I went into town, and trawled round every shop that might sell them. I managed to get 2 antibac handwash pumps from super drug, the last 2 on the shelf. There were non anywhere, when I asked an assistant in Boots, she told me they had a delivery in the morning but were compleatly sold out by 10am.

But on the upside, there was no shortage of toilet rolls!


----------



## rona

3dogs2cats said:


> maybe just maybe, people are stripping our small local supermarket because they are doubling their normal shop for elderly, vulnerable relatives, friends, neighbours? I don't know I just know I think slightly differently about it and feel very sorry for people who are scared.


This is what I am doing. I'm not stripping the shops but am buying more than normal on each visit.
If it does get bad, I want my friend with terminal cancer and my OH with quite bad asthma, to be able to eat without risking their lives going to a shop. The less contact both have with people when/if it does get bad the better.
It's mainly stuff we would normally eat with just a few bits to keep the diet healthy for about a month


----------



## Siskin

I'm on on a pill trawl tomorrow but not bothering with the big supermarkets but going to the larger village near by which had plenty last week
Like several others on this thread I do need these as opposed to hoarding them just in case


----------



## mrs phas

lol this fuss about antibac hand gel
It's a virus
Just like antibiotics won't kill the common cold (, viral not bacterial)

Antibacterial gel
Won't kill covid -19


----------



## Billbailey

I have a friend who runs a rescue for cats and kittens. She and her volunteers use a lot of anti-bac as they move between the cages, as you would expect with ill cats and new-borns. She recently put in her regular order for a 5-litre container which normally costs £23. It had gone up to £80. 

She has put a post on the local FB community page about it. And quite a lot of people have dropped off bottles of anti-bac to her. Whether these kind souls are the ones that emptied the local shops, who knows?


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> lol this fuss about anyibac hand gel
> It's a virus
> Just like antibiotics won't kill the common cold (, viral not bacterial)
> 
> Antibacterial gel
> Won't kill covid -19


Well strictly speaking flu doesn't either it's secondary infections such as pneumonia, usually the bacterial one or sepsis for examplethat does but both go on the death certificate.


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> I have a friend who runs a rescue for cats and kittens. She and her volunteers use a lot of anti-bac as they move between the cages, as you would expect with ill cats and new-borns. She recently put in her regular order for a 5-litre container which normally costs £23. It had gone up to £80


When I was breeding I used household detergent to clean and diluted bleach to disinfect. The protocol I used for cleaning litter trays with those simple products was proven by Diane Addie to be effective in dealing with FCoV. Nothing to say that means it works with this particular Coronavirus but no reason it should be any less effective than all the fancy products flying off the shelves.


----------



## Billbailey

I think they use it more for moving between the rooms as it means they don't have to keep going back to the kitchen or bathroom to wash their hands between each cat. Saves a lot of time.


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> I think they use it more for moving between the rooms as it means they don't have to keep going back to the kitchen or bathroom to wash their hands between each cat. Saves a lot of time.


Probably makes them feel better. Do they change footwear, outer clothing? I know that sounds ridiculous and in some situations it is but if you're really serious about infection control it's what you'd do - definitely footwear. People do as much as they can be bothered and to be fair, every little does help.


----------



## HarlequinCat

mrs phas said:


> lol this fuss about antibac hand gel
> It's a virus
> Just like antibiotics won't kill the common cold (, viral not bacterial)
> 
> Antibacterial gel
> Won't kill covid -19


Antibacterial gel will kill the Coronavirus. You need to use enough that it wets your hands then letting it dry without rubbing it off, and it needs at least 60% alcohol. The alcohol in the gel breaks down the proteins that protect the virus and kills it.

It's always better to wash hands when you can, but the gel a good standby.

Hand gel no good against things like norovirus though, as it has a different structure


----------



## catz4m8z

ForestWomble said:


> Just tried to order something I need (medical) and have just received an email stating that supply is being affected due to this virus, thankfully I have about a months supply left, hopefully I get my delivery before I run out.


Thats more what worries me. Not the virus itself but the effect its going to have on other sick people. Hospitals are going to have to make hard decisions and it will result in people dying (who dont even have the virus) who might have had a chance before.
Im not looking forward to work in the weeks to come.

Def feeling more like I should be stockpiling comfort foods though....really, a tub of Ben and Jerry's is going to do more for me then a bottle of antibac soap!


----------



## Jesthar

HarlequinCat said:


> Antibacterial gel will kill the Coronavirus. You need to use enough that it sets your hands, and it needs at least 60% alcohol. The alcohol in the gel breaks down the proteins that protect the virus and kills it.
> 
> It's always better to wash hands when you can, but the gel a good standby.
> 
> Hand gel no good against things like norovirus though, as it has a different structure


It's the alcohol that does the killing, though, not the anti-bac bit. It attacks the sheath of the virus and breaks it down (the norovirus has a different structure). Hence the need to be 60%+ alcohol. Gels with a lower alcohol percentage or and alcohol free formula will only slow growth at best.

Antibacterial handwash, of course, is no more use against coronavirus specifically than a bog standard bar of cheap soap.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> Antibacterial handwash, of course, is no more use against coronavirus specifically than a bog standard bar of cheap soap.


In some ways using anything other than the old fashioned basics for proper hand washing and effective cleaning are counter productive. They give people a false sense of security.


----------



## havoc

HarlequinCat said:


> It's always better to wash hands when you can, but the gel a good standby.


That's a good summary. There's nothing to beat washing the virus off your hands and it doesn't matter what kind of soap you use to do it.

Eta: use a nail brush too!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Jesthar said:


> It's the alcohol that does the killing, though, not the anti-bac bit. It attacks the sheath of the virus and breaks it down (the norovirus has a different structure). Hence the need to be 60%+ alcohol. Gels with a lower alcohol percentage or and alcohol free formula will only slow growth at best.
> 
> Antibacterial handwash, of course, is no more use against coronavirus specifically than a bog standard bar of cheap soap.


Yup, which is why I said it had to be 60% alcohol at least  And that it was the alcohol that killed it


----------



## Lurcherlad

On tv yesterday advice was to use a capful of bleach to 1 litre of water would make a satisfactory cleaning fluid.

A bottle of bleach could make 50 litres of cleaner.

Obviously can’t be used on all surfaces but should be fine on door knobs, light switches, taps etc.


----------



## willa

Is there another Cobra meeting tomorrow ?

The London borough I work in is now second highest in UK for virus cases . 5 new cases within a day


----------



## ForestWomble

catz4m8z said:


> Thats more what worries me. Not the virus itself but the effect its going to have on other sick people. Hospitals are going to have to make hard decisions and it will result in people dying (who dont even have the virus) who might have had a chance before.
> Im not looking forward to work in the weeks to come.
> 
> Def feeling more like I should be stockpiling comfort foods though....really, a tub of Ben and Jerry's is going to do more for me then a bottle of antibac soap!


Let's hope your worries get to be unfounded.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

catz4m8z said:


> Thats more what worries me. Not the virus itself but the effect its going to have on other sick people. Hospitals are going to have to make hard decisions and it will result in people dying (who dont even have the virus) who might have had a chance before.
> Im not looking forward to work in the weeks to come.
> 
> Def feeling more like I should be stockpiling comfort foods though....really, a tub of Ben and Jerry's is going to do more for me then a bottle of antibac soap!


That's the big worry with this thing and if it continues to spread at the current rate then we could have big problems especially with medical staff being at extra risk. China are now going to extreme measures to slow down the spread and it's working because people are complying with it. Italy is in lock down now.
I'm stocking up on pop, crisps and chocolate because that's all I can eat when I don't feel good.


----------



## cheekyscrip

I just called my Mum and asked her to take taxi instead of the bus. Plus stock up on essential, arrange what must be done asap and be ready to hibernate.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If I get desperate, my sister says there's no shortage of toilet paper in DomRep!


----------



## willa

The UK Health Minister has been confirmed to have the virus , the irony


----------



## Billbailey

That's going to be a bit of a mare for PHE, tracking all the people who have come into contact with all the people she has come into contact with. Ooof.


----------



## willa

Billbailey said:


> That's going to be a bit of a mare for PHE, tracking all the people who have come into contact with all the people she has come into contact with. Ooof.


Can just imagine Johnson will come down with it


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Can just imagine Johnson will come down with it


Oh dear...


----------



## Magyarmum

Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders both cancelled their rallies last night due to the Coronavirus

Donald Trump says he's not worried about the virus and is not planning to cancel his.

All three men are in their 70's and therefore high risk!

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...nt-stop-his-rallies-but-none-scheduled-2020-3

*Trump says he'll keep holding rallies amid coronavirus, but he has none scheduled after holding 6 in the past month*


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Siskin

There's some good memes about


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Can just imagine Johnson will come down with it


And he has been near people near the Queen in the last few days!


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> Can just imagine Johnson will come down with it


He was holding a reception at Downing Street on Thursday and Nadine Dorries MP attended and aparrently it was packed full of people, she was showing symptoms of Coronavirus at the time. Plus Nadine Dorries MP has voted twice in the past week in Parliament.

Nadine Dorries MP is the first MP to be diagnosed with Covid-19.

https://news.sky.com/story/nadine-dorries-health-minister-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-11954928


----------



## havoc

Interest rates have been cut to 0.25%. Great for borrowers including the govt.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...57f823e3f801ef47&regi_id=89624487tion=topNews

*Coronavirus Map: Tracking the Spread of the Outbreak*


----------



## purringcats

Serbia closes borders to coronavirus affected countries.

The temporary ban applies to people arriving "from Italy, certain provinces in China, South Korea, Iran and parts of Switzerland", it said. The government did not say when the ban would be lifted or which parts of Switzerland it applied to.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-...fected-states--including-switzerland/45608316


----------



## purringcats

In Europe, Austria unilaterally broke with the European Union’s rules on the free movement of people on Tuesday by denying entry to those arriving from Italy. This is the first case of restrictions being placed on the free travel Schengen area of 26 European countries since the outbreak of the virus, an echo of 2015, when a wave of migrants and refugees prompted several to close their borders.


----------



## purringcats

Slovenia has also imposed travel restrictions on Itay on Tuesday.

https://www.thelocal.at/20200310/austria-imposes-border-restrictions-with-italy-over-virus/amp

This is part of the problem and why the virus is spreading so quickly on mainland Europe is the open borders. Perhaps there should be travel restrictions in place until the virus goes otherwise there is going to be alot more cases of Covid-19 and many morr deaths in mainland Europe.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Interest rates have been cut to 0.25%. Great for borrowers including the govt.


I do understand the thinking behind this, well I think I do........but......borrowers often make the financial problems. 

Investors and savers seem to always be the ones to suffer


----------



## Magyarmum

https://lostineu.eu/coronavirus-nun...rope+Update&utm_content=Lost+in+EUrope+Update

*Corona virus: Now borders are sealed off*

In Hungary we have 67 people in quarantine and 12 confirmed cases comprising 1 British, 3 Hungarian and 8 Iranians, all university students in Budapest.

Wizzair has cancelled flights from Budapest to Italy and Israel.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> He was holding a reception at Downing Street on Thursday and Nadine Dorries MP attended and aparrently it was packed full of people, she was showing symptoms of Coronavirus at the time. Plus Nadine Dorries MP has voted twice in the past week in Parliament.
> 
> Nadine Dorries MP is the first MP to be diagnosed with Covid-19.
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/nadine-dorries-health-minister-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-11954928


So the health minister can't even follow the advice to self isolate if showing the symptoms? 

We're doomed...


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> https://lostineu.eu/coronavirus-nun...rope+Update&utm_content=Lost+in+EUrope+Update
> 
> *Corona virus: Now borders are sealed off*
> 
> In Hungary we have 67 people in quarantine and 8 confirmed cases comprising 1 British, 1 Hungarian and 8 Iranians, all university students in Budapest.
> 
> Wizzair has cancelled flights from Budapest to Italy and Israel.


Sorry, but I'd never fly Wizzair anyway. They just don't sound like they are taking it seriously!


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Sorry, but I'd never fly Wizzair anyway. They just don't sound like they are taking it seriously!


I'm not sure why you're apologising to me?. I was only posting what I'd read in the Hungarian newspapers

Wizzair is not the only airline that has cancelled or modified flights to various countries.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...hts-due-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKCN20K0GZ

*Factbox: Airlines suspend flights due to coronavirus outbreak*


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> I do understand the thinking behind this, well I think I do........but......borrowers often make the financial problems.
> 
> Investors and savers seem to always be the ones to suffer


The individual 'savers', those who rely on savings income, are over represented in the old. They are not of consequence in this thinking. It's about keeping things going so the country can come out the other side of this.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I'm not sure why you're apologising to me?. I was only posting what I'd read in the Hungarian newspapers
> 
> Wizzair is not the only airline that has cancelled or modified flights to various countries.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...hts-due-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKCN20K0GZ
> 
> *Factbox: Airlines suspend flights due to coronavirus outbreak*


I know that. It was of a turn of phrase for what I was about to say rather than an apology to you.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> The individual 'savers', those who rely on savings income, are over represented in the old. They are not of consequence in this thinking. It's about keeping things going so the country can come out the other side of this.


As I said, I understand the thinking behind it


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I know that. It was of a turn of phrase for what I was about to say rather than an apology to you.


I can't say I'd use Wizzair myself or any airline for that matter unless there was no alternative. These days I prefer to travel by car, train or bus

However, cheap airlines are a a godsend for young people like my grandchildren who want to see the world but don't have much money. Unlike me they don't mind "roughing" it a bit so long as the plane gets them to where they're going to in one piece. Last summer my granddaughter flew from Manchester to Budapest, from Budapest to Malmo, then from Malmo to Edinburgh all for £50! The train fare from Edinburgh back to Manchester cost her, if I remember rightly, £38!


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Sorry, but I'd never fly Wizzair anyway


I can see your point: it's a bit like calling yourself Mickey Mouse Airlines somehow . . . or Air Banana.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

rona said:


> As I said, I understand the thinking behind it


I'm with you Rona.
Whilst I think I can see some logic - for me the interest on my savings was to tide me over to my now deferred state pension age. As it stands I'm losing capital.
For someone trying to stand on their own 2 feet and not claim benefits it's hard to see the logistics.


----------



## Jesthar

I swear the Aussies have some of the BEST insults in the world 










*adds 'Great Thundering Walloper' to her IDI (Idiot Description Index)*


----------



## rottieboys

margy said:


> Much as I feel sorry for the Chinese having this awful virus amongst them I think their eating habits leave a lot to be desired. That food market selling wildlife, where apparently this virus started looked horrendous. Dirt and blood around. I know their culture is different to ours, I couldn't eat a Koala, or live baby mice, that wasn't pleasant, I wish I could unsee that. But they need to start setting standards.


Apparently, they are still selling illegal wildlife right now undercover. I read this on line....


----------



## rottieboys

Beth78 said:


> Have they found how it is spread ?


Yes, they know it was with the wildlife food markets...LBC Ian Dale said this last night on the radio


----------



## Magyarmum

rottieboys said:


> Yes, they know it was with the wildlife food markets...LBC Ian Dale said this last night on the radio


https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-chinese-wet-market-photos-2020-1

*Both the new coronavirus and SARS outbreaks likely started in Chinese wet markets. Photos show what the markets look like.*


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-chinese-wet-market-photos-2020-1
> 
> *Both the new coronavirus and SARS outbreaks likely started in Chinese wet markets. Photos show what the markets look like.*


I probably don't want to look at that do I?

:Sour


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I probably don't want to look at that do I?
> 
> :Sour


Not if you're squeamish


----------



## Magyarmum

It looks as though Hungary will be going into lock down any time now.

Excuse the peculiar English, Google Translate has a lot to answer for

https://index.hu/belfold/2020/03/11...dg3Xc2weA1hvm5rJE8h6UIpolGeq2CNfpCFSU67AW-ALQ

*An emergency was ordered by the government*


----------



## catz4m8z

purringcats said:


> This is part of the problem and why the virus is spreading so quickly on mainland Europe is the open borders.


I think it would be impossible to contain any kind of serious virus/disease today though...the most you could hope for is to slow it down and spread out the effects. I mean people fly across the planet like they used to pop to the shops these days!



Magyarmum said:


> *Both the new coronavirus and SARS outbreaks likely started in Chinese wet markets. Photos show what the markets look like.*


wow, so it turns out killing and abusing animals is bad for us!!?:Wideyed
Who knew!!?:Bored
:Banghead


----------



## purringcats

Well Covid-19 hasn't stopped or put my friend going to Pattaya in Thailand for 8 weeks. Why should it put people off going about their daily buisness?


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> Well Covid-19 hasn't stopped or put my friend going to Pattaya in Thailand for 8 weeks. Why should it put people off going about their daily buisness?


Sadly its stopped someone I know from not going to Nevada for work due to the virus. He can't be the only one not affected by the virus


----------



## rona

purringcats said:


> Well Covid-19 hasn't stopped or put my friend going to Pattaya in Thailand for 8 weeks. Why should it put people off going about their daily buisness?


How old is your friend and have they any other health issues?


----------



## purringcats

rona said:


> How old is your friend and have they any other health issues?


38
Regarding health issues I do not know.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


>


How many of our pets would like to have a reason to get their own back.


----------



## rona

purringcats said:


> 38
> Regarding health issues I do not know.


Probably only minor risk then


----------



## havoc

Very impressed with my gym. Hand sanitising gel on tap - good stuff too. Info on the spray cleaner for the equipment on display along with extra notices asking people to pay special attention to handles etc.

Probably the safest place I can be


----------



## purringcats

The World Health Organisation has just declared Covid-19 a pandemic by reclassifying it as such.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Very impressed with my gym. Hand sanitising gel on tap - good stuff too. Info on the spray cleaner for the equipment on display along with extra notices asking people to pay special attention to handles etc.
> 
> Probably the safest place I can be


I think my Swimming pool may be even safer than your gym


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> I think my Swimming pool may be even safer than your gym


I'm actually pleased to hear it. The only thing I do which had me a bit worried was my training and I'd decided it was a risk worth taking. I love my gym sessions and reckon my best defence is staying as fit and strong as possible. Swimming definitely isn't for me but however people choose to stay strong I'm delighted they'll be able to carry on


----------



## purringcats

How much at risk are our pets from Coronavirus?

I know cats can get coronavirus and is known as FIPV or FECV. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-veterinary-medicine/feline-coronavirus

At the moment not alot is known about Covid-19 and how it is transmitted from person to person. I know I am probably grasping at straws because the authorities don't think it can be transmitted from pets to humans and vice versa but is there any scientific proof of this?

It does worry me that if I got it if there is any risk it can be passed on to my cat.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Why should it put people off going about their daily buisness?


Are you joking? It's already having a huge impact. High end hotels in London are without the normal overseas visitors which pour money into this country, manufacturing industry which relies on raw materials from China is warning its workforce of layoffs, many workers who get ill won't get sick pay and will fall into debt. This is affecting lives now and the fall out will for a long time.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> *I know cats can get coronavirus* and is known as FIPV or FECV.


So have you many times - the common cold is a coronavirus.


----------



## purringcats

I am now taking it exteremely seriously now that W.H.O have reclassified it as a worldwide pandemic this evening.


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> Are you joking? It's already having a huge impact. High end hotels in London are without the normal overseas visitors which pour money into this country, manufacturing industry which relies on raw materials from China is warning its workforce of layoffs, many workers who get ill won't get sick pay and will fall into debt. This is affecting lives now and the fall out will for a long time.


Agreed I feel very blessed I have a good level of sick pay should I get poorly or have to isolate but millions will be in a very difficult position.


----------



## havoc

Repeat post


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> I am now taking it exteremely seriously now that W.H.O have reclassified it as a worldwide pandemic this evening.


Blimey that's a quick turnabout. It doesn't really mean anything, it's a very fine line between epidemic and pandemic and not much changes. It simply is a word that means it's a disease that spreads across countries at the same time which we know already. No different actions are taking place.

But as @havoc says there is a huge impact. Conferences I've booked to go to, are now cancelled and I've lost money, I may be required to take on more work to cover others or as a business owner be impacted by any changes to the financial stability of the economy. It really is preventing people going about their normal life, I'm attempting to but I have immune issues and had pneumonia two years ago, it's nasty.


----------



## willa

purringcats said:


> The World Health Organisation has just declared Covid-19 a pandemic by reclassifying it as such.


How will that affect the UK ? Will the Goverment have to move into the delay stage ?


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

purringcats said:


> How much at risk are our pets from Coronavirus?
> 
> I know cats can get coronavirus and is known as FIPV or FECV.
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-veterinary-medicine/feline-coronavirus
> 
> At the moment not alot is known about Covid-19 and how it is transmitted from person to person. I know I am probably grasping at straws because the authorities don't think it can be transmitted from pets to humans and vice versa but is there any scientific proof of this?
> 
> It does worry me that if I got it if there is any risk it can be passed on to my cat.


They say pets can't catch it. A dog tested a weak positive but it turned out that he had just been contaminated by his owner like an object would be.


----------



## mrs phas

MissMiloKitty said:


> They say pets can't catch it. A dog tested a weak positive but it turned out that he had just been contaminated by his owner like an object would be.


surely if it, allegedly, came from animals, via wet markets
it can also cross into other animals, the same way it crossed into humans
from what ive read, it seems as though, yet again, the killing of live bats, in the market, and subsequent eating of them or animals that have been cross contaminated, is the root of it all


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

purringcats said:


> I am now taking it exteremely seriously now that W.H.O have reclassified it as a worldwide pandemic this evening.


I think we knew this announcement was coming


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

mrs phas said:


> surely if it, allegedly, came from animals, via wet markets
> it can also cross into other animals, the same way it crossed into humans
> from what ive read, it seems as though, yet again, the killing of live bats, in the market, and subsequent eating of them or animals that have been cross contaminated, is the root of it all


Yeah, I thought that myself but they say not. Are they even telling us the truth? A lot of people online don't have a high opinion of WHO


----------



## mrs phas

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yeah, I thought that myself but they say not. Are they even telling us the truth? A lot of people online don't have a high opinion of WHO


Who knows ?( pun unintended)
if i lived out there though, i wouldnt be feeding my dogs raw or scraps for sure


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> surely if it, allegedly, came from animals, via wet markets
> it can also cross into other animals, the same way it crossed into humans


It 'could' have done but this particular mutation works best in the human animal. If you think about how it works it wouldn't be nearly so successful in our pets. There isn't anywhere near the same chance for onward transmission - you don't get pet dogs crowded onto public transport for example.


----------



## lullabydream

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yeah, I thought that myself but they say not. Are they even telling us the truth? A lot of people online don't have a high opinion of WHO


You have to be very careful with Who and the facts they state.. Through studying I learnt to backtrack any science related quotes from them as they do pick and choose quite often.. which is why they get a bad rep for statement purposes as a whole. Examples would be they may pick a study which seems to have a massive group of diversity looked at, but when you look fully the actual study it wasn't actually true to whatever disaster happened control conditions, exclusions so you are looking at a shampoo advert result. Not quite worthy of the big hype

I think they can be very accurate or very bad.. It's 50/50.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> Very impressed with my gym. Hand sanitising gel on tap - good stuff too. Info on the spray cleaner for the equipment on display along with extra notices asking people to pay special attention to handles etc.
> 
> Probably the safest place I can be


 A whole lot more safe than the hospital I have unfortunately had to be at today! Hand gel dispensers mostly empty, the one at my mums bedside empty, the one outside the ward empty and no soap left in the dispensers in the toilet, people apparently coming in because they have a good reason to believe they have coronavirus, one lady told me she had been advised to go to the hospital and she would be shown to the isolated hub, she was actually just told to sit in a crowded waiting room!


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> A whole lot more safe than the hospital I have unfortunately had to be at today! Hand gel dispensers mostly empty, the one at my mums bedside empty, the one outside the ward empty and no soap left in the dispensers in the toilet, people apparently coming in because they have a good reason to believe they have coronavirus, one lady told me she had been advised to go to the hospital and she would be shown to the isolated hub, she was actually just told to sit in a crowded waiting room!


That sounds dreadful.
I was at a hospital in Birmingham yesterday which is not an A&E, people are there with appointments, so you don't get just anyone walking in. However it doesn't stop someone coming in with coronavirus and sitting in the waiting area with their appointment of course.

Thankfully there were sanitisers everywhere which a lot of people using them. At the big button operated sliding doors people were using their elbows to knock the button and then still using the sanitiser on the other side. Hopefully all will be ok


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> A whole lot more safe than the hospital I have unfortunately had to be at today! Hand gel dispensers mostly empty, the one at my mums bedside empty, the one outside the ward empty and no soap left in the dispensers in the toilet, people apparently coming in because they have a good reason to believe they have coronavirus, one lady told me she had been advised to go to the hospital and she would be shown to the isolated hub, she was actually just told to sit in a crowded waiting room!


That's bad.. One of the local hospital in my area had an isolation hub that was basically a chair with a phone under a flimsy plastic tent thing.. I didn't think you actual went in the hospital.. They have now updated to 3 again with chair and phone but more portacabin. No doubt most will still turn up in A and E, not using the hand gels on entering, might not touch anything anyway.. Bearing in mind the phone in the hub is to phone 111 to see what they suggest to do.. Which surely you would do this from home and not consider going to hospital on the off chance you need admitting and not just self isolating. If you have the breathing difficulties complication going to your nearest hospital will not help as not all are taking in coronovirus patients anyway just some. Regardless from what I have read if they have a hub or not.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> It's already having a huge impact. High end hotels in London are without the normal overseas visitors which pour money into this country, manufacturing industry which relies on raw materials from China is warning its workforce of layoffs, many workers who get ill won't get sick pay and will fall into debt. This is affecting lives now and the fall out will for a long time.


yup, I keep thinking that. Alot of high street shops are struggling anyways and this could put them out of business, not to mention those self employed or with small businesses. From an economic pov something like this is really worrying.



3dogs2cats said:


> A whole lot more safe than the hospital I have unfortunately had to be at today! Hand gel dispensers mostly empty, the one at my mums bedside empty, the one outside the ward empty and no soap left in the dispensers in the toilet,


Some b**ger was stealing them from my A&E dept last night! TBH I dont know what the state of our hand gel dispensers was like coz I never use them! I would always rather wash my hands with soap and water, the only use I can see for them is when you cant get to a sink!


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Bearing in mind the phone in the hub is to phone 111 to see what they suggest to do..


Is that how it works? There's a portacabin hub at my local 'hospital' - nothing more than outpatient clinics and an ooh GP. I thought you rang 111 and got referred there for testing. If it's no more than ringing 111 again then basically it's just to keep you going backwards and forwards for nothing.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Is that how it works? There's a portacabin hub at my local 'hospital' - nothing more than outpatient clinics and an ooh GP. I thought you rang 111 and got referred there for testing. If it's no more than ringing 111 again then basically it's just to keep you going backwards and forwards for nothing.


That's what the local paper states.. You could see phone and chair easily when it was a tent, and journalist took a look inside one. According to the stats people we have 1-4 cases in my area but no cases confirmed. 
Someone also in the local paper phoned 111..with a severe bad back happened to cough a couple of times..111 more concerned she had coronavirus ironically had travelled abroad recently forgot where. Enter ambulance with full hazmat suit to take swab.. Drove to 2 hospitals.. Due to coronavirus. As she wasn't poorly with virus hospital didn't want to know and wouldn't treat for virus. She did get pics for paper having swab for coronavirus with the bloke in wonderful suit!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> That sounds dreadful.
> I was at a hospital in Birmingham yesterday which is not an A&E, people are there with appointments, so you don't get just anyone walking in. However it doesn't stop someone coming in with coronavirus and sitting in the waiting area with their appointment of course.
> 
> Thankfully there were sanitisers everywhere which a lot of people using them. At the big button operated sliding doors people were using their elbows to knock the button and then still using the sanitiser on the other side. Hopefully all will be ok


On the positive side I presume they have run out due to everyone religiously cleaning their hands, I am hoping they just hadn't got around to refilling! After I had used the machine to pay for parking I walked right back through the hospital to where I had seen some hand cleanser! That will teach me not have brought some hand sanitizer before there was non to be found on the shelves!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> Is that how it works? There's a portacabin hub at my local 'hospital' - nothing more than outpatient clinics and an ooh GP. I thought you rang 111 and got referred there for testing. If it's no more than ringing 111 again then basically it's just to keep you going backwards and forwards for nothing.


The lady I was talking to had been referred by the 111 service, but upon arrival was told to wait in general waiting area. They did eventually isolate her but she said she had been in a packed waiting area for over 30 minutes. Miscommunication I presume, I also presume she has tested negative cos she is now on the same ward as my mum.


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> That will teach me not have brought some hand sanitizer before there was non to be found on the shelves


A great deal of the hand sanitizer sold online and in the shops was alcohol free so useless. Some openly states it is but there are plenty of the brands on Amazon and the like with no details of the contents at all. Better to have none and be conscious of the need to wash hands as soon as possible than be using useless rubbish and think you don't need to bother with soap and water all day long.


----------



## willa

Another Cobra meeting tomorrow. Apparently going to announce we’re in the Delay phase


----------



## PawsOnMe

MissMiloKitty said:


> They say pets can't catch it. A dog tested a weak positive but it turned out that he had just been contaminated by his owner like an object would be.


Ferrets can catch flu viruses from people. I know they're one of the animals they're using to try to develop a vaccine since their respiratory system is/works similar to ours.


----------



## Jaf

I’m in Andalucia, southern Spain. The local small town has just closed the libraries, sports centres and markets. No confirmed cases yet. Must admit I’m scared now. I’m at risk due to poor health and I can’t just get medications and food delivered as that service doesn’t exist here, so I have to drive into town. I’ll run out of food, especially cat food, in 2 weeks. Should I bulk buy now whilst the town is relatively safe? I’m guessing that the shops will be full tomorrow with everyone worriedly buying everything in sight. Maybe wait a week. I don’t know.

I have a hospital outpatient appointment early April, I have no idea if it will go ahead.


----------



## Elles

People are stealing hand sanitisers from hospitals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51771584


----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> How will that affect the UK ? Will the Goverment have to move into the delay stage ?


No.
Each country will still assesses how it is affecting people in their country and how quickly it is spreading. There is no need at the moment for the UK Government to move into the delay stage. The virus is still pretty much contained in the UK. People returning from affected areas of the world or cruise ships are going into 14 day isolation upon their return and those that have it in the UK are following advice and self isolating themselves if they show symptoms of the virus.

The infection rate and death rate in the UK believe it or not is still low.

The media do not help broadcasting breaking news everytime someone gets it and self isolates themselves because of course this is going to cause a certain level of panic. But the facts need looking at. How many people are surviving the virus in the UK and worldwide? How these people are getting through the virus in self isolation? Are they taking certain drugs to combat covid-19? etc. The news channels and media need to be putting this information out instead of sensationalising it and causing panic.

W.H.O defines a pandemic as a worldwide spread of a new disease.


----------



## purringcats

Coronavirus vs the flu: How they differ and why your winter jab won't help

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-and-why-your-winter-jab-wont-help-11955375


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> People are stealing hand sanitisers from hospitals.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51771584


I'm not quite sure what is happening in Hungarian hospitals about hand sanitiser because patients have to provide their own toiletries such as soap, towels and toilet paper.


----------



## purringcats

Boots where I am yesterday got some hand gel in and put the supply near the tills with a big notice "Only One Per Person" to ease the panic buying of the hand gel and to be fair to everyone.

I think it is terrible people are stealing hand sanitisers from hospitals.


----------



## purringcats

Toilet roll and kitchen paper isle in my local Waitrose.


----------



## purringcats

Donald Trump has just suspended all flights from mainland Europe to USA from Friday for 30 days, the United Kingdom is not included in this travel ban.


----------



## Magyarmum

purringcats said:


> Donald Trump has just suspended all flights from mainland Europe to USA from Friday for 30 days, the United Kingdom is not included in this travel ban.


https://www.politico.eu/article/tru...il&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-2d05c142a6-190460357

*Trump announces 30-day suspension of travel from Europe*


----------



## purringcats

The PM is set to raise the UK's response to the coronavirus in a matter of hours to the next phase. What this means is major sporting events could be cancelled and schools forced to close and people made to work from home.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...uld-close-and-major-events-cancelled-11955695


----------



## havoc

I doubt they’d want to close schools if they can possibly avoid it. The immediate knock on effects are enormous. Would parents be entitled to claim sick pay for staying home? What about if the parent needing to stay home is a nurse - a precious resource we need at work.


----------



## purringcats

The Government won't be taking this lightly moving to the next phase which includes social distancing which is part of the next phase called the delay phase.

More will be known after the PM has the Cobra meeting today.

There is a huge risk now of a global recession due to Coronavirus.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> There is a huge risk now of a global recession due to Coronavirus


Same risk as yesterday. The risk is no higher just because more people realise it.


----------



## Magyarmum

purringcats said:


> The Government won't be taking this lightly moving to the next phase which includes social distancing which is part of the next phase called the delay phase.
> 
> More will be known after the PM has the Cobra meeting today.
> 
> There is a huge risk now of a global recession due to Coronavirus.


Not only due to the Coronavirus but also the dispute between Russia and Saudi Arabia over oil!

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/9/21171406/coronavirus-saudi-arabia-russia-oil-war-explained

*The Saudi Arabia-Russia oil war, explained*


----------



## Lurcherlad

FYI to date, 65,000 people have recovered from the virus apparently, just to add a positive note 

Eta: was reported as UK then corrected to around the World


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> FYI to date, 65,000 people in the UK have recovered from the virus apparently, just to add a positive note


That figure is probably close to the truth though it isn't just confirmed cases who should count because of the delay in confirming someone clear.


----------



## Maurey

Anybody know how bad the panic buying is in London? My aunt and her family live over there, and she says all is well, but I have a feeling she might just be reassuring me so that I don't worry.


----------



## MollySmith

As I understand it, Americans can fly to these countries but nobody from those countries can fly to USA so it’s an immigration issue for Trump.


----------



## purringcats

Lurcherlad said:


> FYI to date, 65,000 people in the UK have recovered from the virus apparently, just to add a positive note


I still think there needs to be a certain level of calm over this virus even if the PM does raise the UK to phase 2. Use common sense and follow the advise from Public Health England through the Government who are relaying this advise to us. The majority of people are still recovering from the virus and the chances of getting the virus are still low.


----------



## havoc

I'm hearing that Trump's decision was completely solo - no expert advice, no input from anyone else. Makes sense because it's stupid. They already have person to person transmission within the US.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> I still think there needs to be a certain level of calm over this virus even if the PM does raise the UK to phase 2.


I think most of us are.


----------



## kimthecat

Maurey said:


> Anybody know how bad the panic buying is in London? My aunt and her family live over there, and she says all is well, but I have a feeling she might just be reassuring me so that I don't worry.


Im on the outskirts of West London. Its not too bad , the stores are quieter than usual . Boots had sanitisers .

A school a couple of miles from me has had to close and be deep cleaned. I expect it will open again soon. 
Has anyone else got the music to Jaws in their head ? :Hilarious


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> Has anyone else got the music to Jaws in their head ? :Hilarious


Absolutely. I'm concerned that events I plan to attend will not go ahead. Beyond that if I thought worrying would help then I'd worry for Britain.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> it's an immigration issue for Trump.


 No change there then!


----------



## Happy Paws2

[QUOTE="kimthecat, post: 1065582785, member: 25822"
Has anyone else got the music to Jaws in their head ? :Hilarious[/QUOTE]

No, but I know what you mean.
The only turn that's going round head and driving me mad is "Happy Birthday"


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> I'm hearing that Trump's decision was completely solo - no expert advice, no input from anyone else. Makes sense because it's stupid. They already have person to person transmission within the US.


Sounds about right...

Personally I think the US will be hardest hit of all the major world powers. Many people simply can't afford not to go to work, or would lose their job if they didn't show up, so will do what they always do and carry on unless they absolutely can't.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> I doubt they'd want to close schools if they can possibly avoid it. The immediate knock on effects are enormous. Would parents be entitled to claim sick pay for staying home? What about if the parent needing to stay home is a nurse - a precious resource we need at work.


Surely if you know you wont get sick pay in your job your should have some sort of back up plan already in place though?? I mean you could be ill/injured at any time.
Also it is frustrating to stay at home as a nurse if you are infectious but not really unwell (was recently off a shift with conjunctivitis!:Shy) but it would be worse if you went in and infected all the other staff and patients.

I actually braved town today, usually I avoid it like the plague (oh, thats bad!) as I hate all the people. Sainsburys was all out of hand sanitiser and paracetamol and had maybe a third of their toilet roll shelves stocked. Boris really needs to pull his finger out and start being more proactive. We need to ban public gatherings like concertrs, sports events,etc and try and think of other ways to reduce contact. Nothing will stop it but Im sure that slowing it down and spreading the effects will make a big difference.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Also it is frustrating to stay at home as a nurse if you are infectious but not really unwell (was recently off a shift with conjunctivitis!:Shy) but it would be worse if you went in and infected all the other staff and patients.


I wasn't talking about nurses who are unwell. I was pointing out those perfectly healthy ones who will have to stay home to look after their children if schools are closed.


----------



## Smolmaus

catz4m8z said:


> Surely if you know you wont get sick pay in your job your should have some sort of back up plan already in place though?? I mean you could be ill/injured at any time.


Backup plans are a luxury for a lot of people. 


Jesthar said:


> Sounds about right...
> 
> Personally I think the US will be hardest hit of all the major world powers. Many people simply can't afford not to go to work, or would lose their job if they didn't show up, so will do what they always do and carry on unless they absolutely can't.


An american friend of mine is severely immuno-compromised due to her colitis meds. She has 6 days sick leave and she will get fired if she goes over that. Her company has just confirmed that she can't work from home, she has to come in. She needs her job or she loses her insurance, her current medical regime costs multiple thousands per month so she can't afford that, her colitis comes out of remission which could kill her. She was actually interviewed for Bloomberg media recently (not her real name!). There is no backup plan available for her and she is panicking.

My ceoliac means I am also technically in a higher risk group but I can _potentially _work from home, have loads of annual leave as I don't have kids and have a partner in a similar situation who can isolate and be okay. I don't for a second assume that other people are as fortunate as I am. People are relying on a social safety net that's full of holes.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> Personally I think the US will be hardest hit of all the major world powers.


I've got a feeling their mortality rate will be high. One of the biggest risks for complications seems to be diabetes and that's an epidemic of its own.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Boris really needs to pull his finger out and start being more proactive. We need to ban public gatherings like concertrs, sports events,etc and try and think of other ways to reduce contact.


Boris needs to balance the risks of the virus against the longer term damage to the economy. Nobody is forced at gunpoint to attend anything.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> Surely if you know you wont get sick pay in your job your should have some sort of back up plan already in place though?? I mean you could be ill/injured at any time.


Some people don't have a massive amount of extra income to put aside for contingencies, though. Or any at all.

Plus, most people are only ever off sick for a few days at a time, a couple of weeks maximum. If the schools close for two months (as the Express - not content with headlines claiming Nostrodamus predicted this as the end of the world, a bioweapon experiment, the onset of Revelation and other wild hysterics - is already claiming BoJo will order to happen today), then all of a sudden you have not only working single parent but also dual income families who suddenly have to figure out what do with their kid(s) all day every day and can't afford paid care (IF you can find any) or a significant drop in income. Not everyone has family to help out, and even then that often means grandparents or other retired family members - just the kind of people who are more vulnerable and shouldn't be taking chances. So what do you do then?

Also as the parents aren't technically sick, some companies will argue they shouldn't get sick pay - IF your position even offers sick pay, which gig worker employers often don't (Amazon, for example, is offering nothing for their delivery drivers if they have to self isolate). Plus if a company suddenly loses a significant percentage of it's workforce to childcare duties, it may struggle to remain viable.

And it's not just those immediately affected, it's the knock on effects. To give a personal example, a family member and their spouse are both NHS doctors, and they have three school age children. If the schools close, that's a doctor unavailable at all times unless the grandparents step in - which of course, they are being advised not to do. A friend of mine runs a gift business and one of the biggest selling events of the year is coming up at a massive two week conference attended by tens of thousands. If that gets cancelled, she (and plenty of other sellers too) loses tens of thousands of pounds worth of income in one go. Plus the venue loses one of their most lucrative events of the year too, and none of the service staff will be needed so they lose their pay etc. etc. Another friend teaches fitness classes - if those stop, she has no income. And so on


----------



## Smolmaus

Taoiseach just announced Irish schools, colleges and daycares all closed from 6pm. 

Hope he's stocked up on bread and beans, coming back from DC he's high risk!


----------



## Elles

catz4m8z said:


> Surely if you know you wont get sick pay in your job your should have some sort of back up plan already in place though?? I mean you could be ill/injured at any time.


We have a small business. Our back up plan if we're sick, is to work from home while staff carry on with the manufacture. We have people who can take over. If we are so sick we can't even manage the admin side at home, my son can do it.

We have absolutely nothing in place if everyone is sent home and no one can take over. Our small business doesn't leave us anything in the bank to cover complete shutdown for more than a couple of weeks, or afford to pay for expensive sickness insurance policies. We shut for two weeks at Christmas and then work extra hours to catch up with orders again in January. If the World shuts shop, there will be a lot of small businesses going to the wall in many industries, not least tourism.

This in part will be why the government are being reticent and cautious. Shutting down the country too early, could mean a longer shutdown and more companies and people suffering the effects of closure, than suffering the effects of the virus.


----------



## havoc

Elles said:


> If the World shuts shop, there will be a lot of small businesses going to the wall in many industries, not least tourism


Exactly. How many will be out of a job if you go the wall? The numbers country wide will be staggering if we go into panic mode.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> [QUOTE="kimthecat, post: 1065582785, member: 25822"
> Has anyone else got the music to Jaws in their head ? :Hilarious


No, but I know what you mean.
The only turn that's going round head and driving me mad is "Happy Birthday"[/QUOTE]

Try washing hands to :SingingBaby Shark:Singing instead.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Some people don't have a massive amount of extra income to put aside for contingencies, though. Or any at all.
> 
> Plus, most people are only ever off sick for a few days at a time, a couple of weeks maximum. If the schools close for two months (as the Express - not content with headlines claiming Nostrodamus predicted this as the end of the world, a bioweapon experiment, the onset of Revelation and other wild hysterics - is already claiming BoJo will order to happen today), then all of a sudden you have not only working single parent but also dual income families who suddenly have to figure out what do with their kid(s) all day every day and can't afford paid care (IF you can find any) or a significant drop in income. Not everyone has family to help out, and even then that often means grandparents or other retired family members - just the kind of people who are more vulnerable and shouldn't be taking chances. So what do you do then?
> 
> Also as the parents aren't technically sick, some companies will argue they shouldn't get sick pay - IF your position even offers sick pay, which gig worker employers often don't (Amazon, for example, is offering nothing for their delivery drivers if they have to self isolate). Plus if a company suddenly loses a significant percentage of it's workforce to childcare duties, it may struggle to remain viable.
> 
> And it's not just those immediately affected, it's the knock on effects. To give a personal example, a family member and their spouse are both NHS doctors, and they have three school age children. If the schools close, that's a doctor unavailable at all times unless the grandparents step in - which of course, they are being advised not to do. A friend of mine runs a gift business and one of the biggest selling events of the year is coming up at a massive two week conference attended by tens of thousands. If that gets cancelled, she (and plenty of other sellers too) loses tens of thousands of pounds worth of income in one go. Plus the venue loses one of their most lucrative events of the year too, and none of the service staff will be needed so they lose their pay etc. etc. Another friend teaches fitness classes - if those stop, she has no income. And so on


Absolutely brilliant post.. 
People like you say don't have the money, extra people to help out when children etc have to be off school if they are ill they can loose out on money or low working wages people often will use holidays for time off to cover things like caring for children. Of course this depends on the employer and people are just as downbeat having no real time off caring for sick children then back to work when they would rather be with their children and spend time even if it's at home, garden time fun times. Just a break from the norm.. Especially when low paid workers will work every hour they can to keep a house over a family's head.

Just reached out to teacher friends about current news about 1 month off school. Still not heard anything official except from a supply teacher saying they don't know anything currently. Which is worrying for her as she's supply, good with finances and works still at least 3 days a week not more. Pretty scary to have no work at all for 2 weeks.


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> I've got a feeling their mortality rate will be high. One of the biggest risks for complications seems to be diabetes and that's an epidemic of its own.


I don't understand why diabetes is such a high risk. I can understand heart/lung problems but am genuinely ignorant of the implications for diabetics.


----------



## Gemmaa

Cully said:


> I don't understand why diabetes is such a high risk. I can understand heart/lung problems but am genuinely ignorant of the implications for diabetics.


I'm guessing, it's messing up blood sugar levels and causing complications.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> I don't understand why diabetes is such a high risk.


I don't understand the mechanics of it either but it was a doctor on breakfast TV who made a real point of saying so. I think I remember what she said the increased percentage risk of complications is but it was so high I'd want to confirm it before quoting from memory.


----------



## Smolmaus

My understanding is that people with diabetes are at higher risk when they catch normal colds and flu as well, it's not Covid-19 specific. Quick look at American Diabetes Assoc. website says similar.


----------



## Cully

Smolmaus said:


> My understanding is that people with diabetes are at higher risk when they catch normal colds and flu as well, it's not Covid-19 specific. Quick look at American Diabetes Assoc. website says similar.


Thanks for the link. It seems to concentrate it's advice on those with type 1 diabetes where the daily management can be quite complex.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> I don't understand why diabetes is such a high risk. I can understand heart/lung problems but am genuinely ignorant of the implications for diabetics.


Not too sure either.

But I've heard obesity is a high risk. But that's understandable because high blood pressure, heart problems and breathing problems comes with it often.

Being a smoker or vaping means you are at a higher risk, I think because there are more receptors for the virus in smokers lungs? Or something like that.

A friend of my partner is worried because he vapes with these huge plumes, and has admitted sometimes it feels like he cant breathe properly even when he's healthy


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> Thanks for the link. It seems to concentrate it's advice on those with type 1 diabetes where the daily management can be quite complex.


Sorry for keeping quoting you! It usually just reminds me of things!

My partners mum has type 2, has a healthy diet for a good few years now, but suffers a lot with colds still. Her last one she developed a chest infection she couldn't shift for months


----------



## Smolmaus

HarlequinCat said:


> Being a smoker or vaping means you are at a higher risk, I think because there are more receptors for the virus in smokers lungs? Or something like that.
> 
> A friend of my partner is worried because he vapes with these huge plumes, and has admitted sometimes it feels like he cant breathe properly even when he's healthy


I was avoiding googling this lol oh no!

That is a problem I have when I've been vaping too much, usually on nights out. Just low level phlegm usually. But lung health is still a million times better than when I was a smoker!


----------



## catz4m8z

Elles said:


> Shutting down the country too early, could mean a longer shutdown and more companies and people suffering the effects of closure, than suffering the effects of the virus.


I suppose thats true. TBH I tend to think about it more from a health pov though. Increasing your risk factors from infection by having large groups together means more people will get sick at once. This means that it will greatly cut your chances in hospital due to the sheer amount of people. (no matter if you have this virus or not, if you are in hospital you might not get the life saving treatment that you might have got before because their will be no resources or beds for you).


----------



## Happy Paws2

If they close the country down how are we going to get food. For one I can't bulk buy I don't really have the money to buy for than a week and I don't have the space either.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> TBH I tend to think about it more from a health pov though. Increasing your risk factors from infection by having large groups together means more people will get sick at once. This means that it will greatly cut your chances in hospital due to the sheer amount of people


Most people don't need hospital treatment. Most people will feel pretty rough for a few days and then get better.

Thanks to vaccines we've lost the ability to deal with illness like this. We expect to either prevent it completely or be handed the wherewithal to at least limit the effects.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> I still think there needs to be a certain level of calm over this virus even if the PM does raise the UK to phase 2. Use common sense and follow the advise from Public Health England through the Government who are relaying this advise to us. The majority of people are still recovering from the virus and the chances of getting the virus are still low.


I don't know if you might want to check some of the things you are posting in this case as you seem to be flipping between announcing end of the world measures ( post 610 - ok I might be exaggerating there...) and telling us we need to be calm.


----------



## Smolmaus

havoc said:


> Most people don't need hospital treatment. Most people will feel pretty rough for a few days and then get better.
> 
> *Thanks to vaccines we've lost the ability to deal with illness like this. * We expect to either prevent it completely or be handed the wherewithal to at least limit the effects.


Yeah, just dying is definitely one way to deal with it. Ridiculous that people expect immuno-compromised kids and cancer patients to *live* these days, what snowflakes.

EDIT: This is sarcasm, vaccines save hundreds of thousands of lives every year, to suggest we would be better off without them is morally disgusting, apologies for any confusion!


----------



## Elles

catz4m8z said:


> I suppose thats true. TBH I tend to think about it more from a health pov though. Increasing your risk factors from infection by having large groups together means more people will get sick at once. This means that it will greatly cut your chances in hospital due to the sheer amount of people. (no matter if you have this virus or not, if you are in hospital you might not get the life saving treatment that you might have got before because their will be no resources or beds for you).


Which will be why they're trying to stagger it and get a vaccine. If people at work stay away from everyone else as much as possible and follow good hygiene, the risk of catching it is still pretty low, shutting down the country needs to be a last resort, for as short a time as possible. It's a balancing act. If we all go home now and it's too soon, we could be in the same position in a couple of months as we are now, but with a bunch of hungry people and suicides from bankruptcy.

Vulnerable people need to take extra care, visitors need to stop stealing from hospitals. We are staying away from my husband's parents, they are both already compromised and a virus of any kind could finish them off. If we could have this without knowing it, it's not worth the risk.

@Smolmaus thats a ridiculous statement, where on earth did that come from?


----------



## Smolmaus

Elles said:


> @Smolmaus thats a ridiculous statement, where on earth did that come from?


Sarcasm lost?


----------



## HarlequinCat

havoc said:


> Most people don't need hospital treatment. Most people will feel pretty rough for a few days and then get better.
> 
> Thanks to vaccines we've lost the ability to deal with illness like this. We expect to either prevent it completely or be handed the wherewithal to at least limit the effects.


True, but if you take countries like Italy, the sheer amount of people who have caught it all at once means that there are still far too many that needs medical treatment. There are many cases where the doctors have to choose to treat people who they think will pull through and survive.

Vaccine I'd have thought would have nothing to do with Covid 19? Vaccines have helped to reduce the deaths because of the flu. Covid 19 is a strain that has never affected humans, which is why it has had the effect it has had. Nothing to do with vaccines surely?


----------



## Jesthar

Smolmaus said:


> Yeah, just dying is definitely one way to deal with it. Ridiculous that people expect immuno-compromised kids and cancer patients to *live* these days, what snowflakes.


I don't think that's what @havoc meant - rather that because (thanks to vaccines, modern medicine in general and public health developments) the UK as a country doesn't have to deal with nasty epidemics on a regular basis any more, many now don't know what to do when faced with one we can't immediately wave a magic scientific wand at or ignore.

Though I'm sure US health insurance companies are salivating at the thought of all the non-profitable individuals (like your friend) that they may be able to cross off the books one way or another soon.


----------



## Billbailey

I read it as Havoc saying we are no longer used to having to deal socially with illness. When I was little, mothers would hold 'measle parties' so that kids would catch it when young. People knew how to deal with stuff. Now it happens so rarely we don't really know what to do as a group.

ETA: Cross-posted with Jesthar


----------



## Smolmaus

Sorry but that's still an *insane* thing to say. The way it was dealt with before was that very few official measures were taken a whole lot of people died!

The things people are automatically doing now (panic-buying and wearing face masks) are the old ways of dealing with it and they don't work?


----------



## Billbailey

I've never seen anyone in a face mask other than a surgeon until very recently. And most people didn't panic buy cos they couldn't afford to. Not where I live anyway. And during WW2, you could get a very steep prison sentence for hoarding necessities

So no, I don't think these are the 'old ways'.


----------



## Smolmaus

Billbailey said:


> I've never seen anyone in a face mask other than a surgeon until very recently. And most people didn't panic buy cos they couldn't afford to. Not where I live anyway. And during WW2, you could get a very steep prison sentence for hoarding necessities
> 
> So no, I don't think these are the 'old ways'.


I don't understand your point then. What should we be doing that we have all forgotten how to do?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Billbailey said:


> I read it as Havoc saying we are no longer used to having to deal socially with illness. When I was little, mothers would hold 'measle parties' so that kids would catch it when young. People knew how to deal with stuff. Now it happens so rarely we don't really know what to do as a group.
> 
> ETA: Cross-posted with Jesthar


But things like this has happened in the past. The Spanish Flu for instance, was very, very different to anything like measles etc. They didn't just get on with things. They shut down schools and business, they told people to isolate from each other. But still 5% of the world population passed away. But now we live in more built up, overcrowded populations. There are far more people on the planet now than there was then

I found a news article from the BBC from 2018, 100 years after, saying about what would happen now. It's worth a read, it's very interesting!

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181120-what-if-a-deadly-influenza-pandemic-broke-out-today

I'm not saying people should panic. But it is something worse than regular flu, especially if hospitals are overwhelmed, or medication runs out


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I don't know if you might want to check some of the things you are posting in this case as you seem to be flipping between announcing end of the world measures ( post 610 - ok I might be exaggerating there...) and telling us we need to be calm.


:Hilarious

Not just me!


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> I don't think that's what @havoc meant - rather that because (thanks to vaccines, modern medicine in general and public health developments) the UK as a country doesn't have to deal with nasty epidemics on a regular basis any more, many now don't know what to do when faced with one we can't immediately wave a magic scientific wand at or ignore


That is what I meant and some of the responses are perfect examples. You can 'feel' the verge of panic in some posts. We expect a medical magic wand and if we don't have one we start looking around for some action whether it would be effective or not just because doing 'something' makes us feel better.


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> No, but I know what you mean.
> The only turn that's going round head and driving me mad is "Happy Birthday"


Try washing hands to :SingingBaby Shark:Singing instead.[/QUOTE]

:Hilarious Im singing the Happy birthday to you , i went to the zoo version and Who ate all the pies for a change !


----------



## Billbailey

Smolmaus said:


> I don't understand your point then. What should we be doing that we have all forgotten how to do?


I wasn't really making a point, I was backing up Havoc's.


----------



## rona

Diabetic lung

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3448171/

"Several abnormalities of the respiratory function have been reported in patients with type 1 and type 2 diabetes. These abnormalities concern lung volume, pulmonary diffusing capacity, control of ventilation, bronchomotor tone, and neuroadrenergic bronchial innervation. Many hypotheses have emerged, and characteristic histological changes have been described in the "diabetic lung", which could explain this abnormal respiratory function. Given the specific abnormalities in diabetic patients, the lung could thus be considered as a target organ in diabetes. Although the practical implications of these functional changes are mild, the presence of an associated acute or chronic pulmonary and/or cardiac disease could determine severe respiratory derangements in diabetic patients. Another clinical consequence of the pulmonary involvement in diabetes is the accelerated decline in respiratory function. The rate of decline in respiratory function in diabetics has been found to be two-to-three times faster than in normal non-smoking subjects"


----------



## kimthecat

Went to the local co op today and they had toilet rolls but limited per customer. I must admit it was nice to be able to get a parking space for a change and the shop wasnt crowded.


----------



## Smolmaus

Billbailey said:


> I wasn't really making a point, I was backing up Havoc's.


That vaccines are spoiling us somehow?? 


rona said:


> The rate of decline in respiratory function in diabetics has been found to be two-to-three times faster than in normal non-smoking subjects"


OOF. That's worse that I had thought it would be.


----------



## Billbailey

Ok.. I'm just going to back away now.....


----------



## rona

Smolmaus said:


> OOF. That's worse that I had thought it would be.


Make sense though, diabetes affects circulation and the lungs need that too


----------



## havoc

Smolmaus said:


> That vaccines are spoiling us somehow??


If you want to put it that way. We expect prevention or treatment of disease. I'd say that's a pretty privileged position.


----------



## Elles

We didn’t use to panic about it, stockpile loo rolls and steal from hospitals. Modern, western man became complacent, because we are accustomed to vaccine, surgery, medicines and antibiotics sorting us out. The last big panic I’d guess was HIV/AIDS. 

Of course we should be taking precautions, but stealing from hospitals and running around screaming “oh no, we’re all going to die”, is a bit extreme.


----------



## Jesthar

Smolmaus said:


> Sorry but that's still an *insane* thing to say. The way it was dealt with before was that very few official measures were taken a whole lot of people died!
> 
> The things people are automatically doing now (panic-buying and wearing face masks) are the old ways of dealing with it and they don't work?


No, it's not, it's an accurate comment on history - a lot of things were different back then.

For starters, people were a lot more pragmatic in those days because death was a part of everyday experiences - most families where my parents grew up would keep birds for laying and the table, for example. Maybe even a pig. You shopped almost every day because you probably didn't have a fridge let alone a freezer, and you probably couldn't afford to stockpile much anyway - some tinned goods in case you got snowed in during winter, perhaps. Pasta is a recently relative introduction to the UK, remember. Face masks probably wouldn't have been seen outside an operating theatre! Oh, and you walked or took the bus to the local shops as cars were a rarity and if you had one the man of the house probably drove it to work. Supermarkets were not a thing yet, and TVs rare. Most read newspapers and listened to the radio for news, and watched newsreels at the cinema, and there wasn't much else in the way of mass communication, so you tended to believe what was said/read. Travelling long distances was relatively rare.

Fast forward to my early childhood, and although cars were more common you still probably only had one per household. Supermarkets had arrived, but there were still a lot of local shops and amenities, and your milk was probably still delivered each morning in glass bottles by a bloke on an electric cart. Mum used to walk the mile to town to do food shopping at least twice a week and carry it all back in canvas bags, until one Christmas me and my brother clubbed together and bought her a leather shopping trolley. When we were older, we used to get dispatched with that trolley to do top up shops at the local array of shops a the top of the estate, which included a very good butcher. About once a month we would do a big shop with the car at the weekend. Colour TVs were becoming affordable, although there were still many hours of the day when all you could watch was the test card. The Commodore 64 was the height of home computing (IF you could afford it), everything was command line driven and mice were what snuck into the cupboard and ate your Weetabix at night. The internet wouldn't and the first affordable mobile phones wouldn't arrive until my college/uni days, and the video communications, tablet devices and touch screen controls of Star Trek fame just the figments of their creators imagination - many houses still didn't have a landline when I was very young, and our local numbers were all three or four digets. People travelled more, but usually only locally outside of main holidays. TV news was added to radio and newspapers, and we still tended to trust what we were told.

And now? Now we have 24/7 on demand - well - everything, and struggle to envisage a situation where we can't just do what we want when we want. If we don't like something, even a viewpoint, we can hop on the internet and find ourselves a dozen alternatives. We're just not used to limitations, the same way we're not used to getting the coal in, or doing the laundry taking a week. Many of us are also busy-busy-busy and juggling so much stiff even a small disruption can cause a big problem. For example, I'm working from home for a couple of days not because I want to, but because I've been so busy I forgot about my MOT and it ran out yesterday, and it won't be done until tomorrow. As it happens, I don't have anything in the diary for tonight, but it still feels very weird to not be able to just jump in the car and pop somewhere a few miles away if I want to. We're also less likely to pay attention to official spokespeople, and more likely to be influenced by relatively new and uncontrollable things like social media - take the loo roll shortage, would that even be a thing if reports of it hadn't gone, er, viral?

And one other key difference that I thought of the other day when closing schools was being mooted about is that my generation are the first to really have the childcare problem. My mum stopped work when she had me, so if I or my brother was unwell, we didn't have to worry about who would look after us as Mum was always home. And for most families back then, a single wage was the norm. Now it is usually expected that both parents work (even though childcare costs can easily eat a good chunk of one wage), so a child being ill presents a logistical and potentially financial problem as well as a health problem.


----------



## Elles

I think we only have 8 years left before the planet burns and we all die anyway. 

I read that the virus won’t spread so easily in the Summer. It doesn’t like Sunshine and is quite weak in that respect. So roll on Summer.


----------



## Smolmaus

havoc said:


> If you want to put it that way. We expect prevention or treatment of disease. I'd say that's a pretty privileged position.


Hey now, that's not the same thing as saying "we've lost the ability to deal with these things" as if that's a negative thing.

We should be expecting governments and health bodies to do their jobs to yes, prevent and treat disease as effectively as possible. The jobs we elect them to do and ostensibly pay their wages. That should be a right, not a privilege, in a country supposedly so proud of the NHS. Other countries like Vietnam and Hong Kong are having very different results to Italy and the USA for example so it's not as if we CAN'T control this, we just have to do the correct things.

The ones who suffer when we just expect people to be able to Keep Calm and Carry On are the most vulnerable. Those who in previous generations would just have died while the rest of us _dealt with it_.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> No, it's not, it's an accurate comment on history - a lot of things were different back then.
> 
> For starters, people were a lot more pragmatic in those days because death was a part of everyday experiences - most families where my parents grew up would keep birds for laying and the table, for example. Maybe even a pig. You shopped almost every day because you probably didn't have a fridge let alone a freezer, and you probably couldn't afford to stockpile much anyway - some tinned goods in case you got snowed in during winter, perhaps. Pasta is a recently relative introduction to the UK, remember. Face masks probably wouldn't have been seen outside an operating theatre! Oh, and you walked or took the bus to the local shops as cars were a rarity and if you had one the man of the house probably drove it to work. Supermarkets were not a thing yet, and TVs rare. Most read newspapers and listened to the radio for news, and watched newsreels at the cinema, and there wasn't much else in the way of mass communication, so you tended to believe what was said/read. Travelling long distances was relatively rare.
> 
> Fast forward to my early childhood, and although cars were more common you still probably only had one per household. Supermarkets had arrived, but there were still a lot of local shops and amenities, and your milk was probably still delivered each morning in glass bottles by a bloke on an electric cart. Mum used to walk the mile to town to do food shopping at least twice a week and carry it all back in canvas bags, until one Christmas me and my brother clubbed together and bought her a leather shopping trolley. When we were older, we used to get dispatched with that trolley to do top up shops at the local array of shops a the top of the estate, which included a very good butcher. About once a month we would do a big shop with the car at the weekend. Colour TVs were becoming affordable, although there were still many hours of the day when all you could watch was the test card. The Commodore 64 was the height of home computing (IF you could afford it), everything was command line driven and mice were what snuck into the cupboard and ate your Weetabix at night. The internet wouldn't and the first affordable mobile phones wouldn't arrive until my college/uni days, and the video communications, tablet devices and touch screen controls of Star Trek fame just the figments of their creators imagination - many houses still didn't have a landline when I was very young, and our local numbers were all three or four digets. People travelled more, but usually only locally outside of main holidays. TV news was added to radio and newspapers, and we still tended to trust what we were told.
> 
> And now? Now we have 24/7 on demand - well - everything, and struggle to envisage a situation where we can't just do what we want when we want. If we don't like something, even a viewpoint, we can hop on the internet and find ourselves a dozen alternatives. We're just not used to limitations, the same way we're not used to getting the coal in, or doing the laundry taking a week. Many of us are also busy-busy-busy and juggling so much stiff even a small disruption can cause a big problem. For example, I'm working from home for a couple of days not because I want to, but because I've been so busy I forgot about my MOT and it ran out yesterday, and it won't be done until tomorrow. As it happens, I don't have anything in the diary for tonight, but it still feels very weird to not be able to just jump in the car and pop somewhere a few miles away if I want to. We're also less likely to pay attention to official spokespeople, and more likely to be influenced by relatively new and uncontrollable things like social media - take the loo roll shortage, would that even be a thing if reports of it hadn't gone, er, viral?
> 
> And one other key difference that I thought of the other day when closing schools was being mooted about is that my generation are the first to really have the childcare problem. My mum stopped work when she had me, so if I or my brother was unwell, we didn't have to worry about who would look after us as Mum was always home. And for most families back then, a single wage was the norm. Now it is usually expected that both parents work (even though childcare costs can easily eat a good chunk of one wage), so a child being ill presents a logistical and potentially financial problem as well as a health problem.


I do love your posts 

That is all...


----------



## Cully

@Jesthar well written, and thanks for the trip back down memory lane, when the postman arrived twice a day, we had no inside toilet so used the 'guzz under' at night, and were used to seeing chimneys on fire (usually on a Sunday) as it was the only way to unblock the chimney if we couldn't afford a sweep to clean the soot away.:Happy


----------



## westie~ma

Happy Paws2 said:


> If they close the country down how are we going to get food. For one I can't bulk buy I don't really have the money to buy for than a week and I don't have the space either.


Since having a family of my own I've always bought "extra just in case", few cans/bits here and there whilst shopping. We had a caravan so to save going shopping while using that I used to stockup and take stuff with us.

Since dh and now dd are living away I have ramped up my squirrelling as I travel to them a week at a time sometimes and its not regular, my stash saves me risking running out of stuff and having to do an essential shop when I get back.

I shop once a week for fresh stuff but usually pick up bits that are on offer to squirrel away. I rotate my supplies and I only buy what I know we will use/eat.

Practically for you there is always space. Under a bed, cupboard under stairs, clear stuff you no longer use from cupboards in the kitchen to use the space (if you no longer cook from scratch get rid of pans, serving dishes).

If you can, do an online shop to be delivered, tesco are charging £1 for a delivery 1st April, £2 for the week before if you use the flexi saver. Add a few cans, staples like dried fruit, tinned fruit onto your shop maybe drop other things if you have enough of them in already.


----------



## Siskin

We usually keep extra stuff in the cupboards and the freezer during the winter. If it does snow here then we have a tendency to get cut off so best have something in the cupboard to eat until the roads are cleared. It has to be done by people in the village as we don’t get a snow plough or gritter from the council come round anymore.


----------



## SusieRainbow

havoc said:


> Absolutely. I'm concerned that events I plan to attend will not go ahead. Beyond that if I thought worrying would help then I'd worry for Britain.





kimthecat said:


> Try washing hands to :SingingBaby Shark:Singing instead.


:Hilarious Im singing the Happy birthday to you , i went to the zoo version and Who ate all the pies for a change ![/QUOTE]
I have ' happy Birthday' stuck in my head too as we went out for my daughter's, grandson's and son-in-law's mum'sbirthday last night. I will try Baby Shark !


----------



## DogLover1981

The hysteria over this virus is getting ridiculous. Do people plan on no international travel forever because of the flu or colds? It's quite possible this new virus will become seasonal and it's present all over the world now. Do people plan on shutting down travel every winter because of it? I doubt people would approve of that. O.O


----------



## niamh123

Our local infants school are singing Baby Shark whilst washing their hands


----------



## havoc

Smolmaus said:


> it's not as if we CAN'T control this, we just have to do the correct things


What are the 'right' things? According to every properly qualified person I've heard or seen gatherings in the open air are low risk and yet there are people clamouring for such things to be stopped. The 'close everything' mentality may prevail pushed through public opinion but it won't be because of medical/scientific advice.


----------



## Smolmaus

havoc said:


> What are the 'right' things? According to every properly qualified person I've heard or seen gatherings in the open air are low risk and yet there are people clamouring for such things to be stopped. The 'close everything' mentality may prevail through public opinion but it won't be because of medical/scientific advice.


Vietnam had the virus completely contained until one infected woman made it onto a flight and infected 2 british tourists who then kicked the whole thing off again. Closing everything worked... until someone wriggled through because they assumed they were fine or thought the rules were for other people.

Of course what we're trying to do right now is flatten the infection curve, because it's too late to contain, which means trying to avoid LOTS of people being infected at once, as might happen more easily at large gatherings (which are low risk but also unnecessary or only for entertainment). People can't be trusted to isolate themselves because they're not taking it seriously enough (or literally can't as discussed earlier) so I don't think limiting Virus-Fest 2020 is an out of proportion thing to do.


----------



## Smolmaus

EDIT=/= QUOTE!


----------



## Jesthar

Just to lighten the mood a bit, here's a recording someone sneaked out of the Cobra meeting 





(gotta love a bit of Yes, Minister  )


----------



## MilleD

DogLover1981 said:


> The hysteria over this virus is getting ridiculous. Do people plan on no international travel forever because of the flu or colds? It's quite possible this new virus will become seasonal and it's present all over the world now. Do people plan on shutting down travel every winter because of it? I doubt people would approve of that. O.O


But if it becomes seasonal I assume it would end up being something that is vaccinated against (presuming they can make one)?


----------



## Elles

They say we are testing a vaccine now, but for the U.K. it will take until at least next November to be cleared for use, unless there’s global vaccine approval.


----------



## havoc

Smolmaus said:


> People can't be trusted to isolate themselves because they're not taking it seriously enough


And the symptomless incubation period of this virus is so long that onward transmission is inevitable. There are 5 million passenger journeys on the London Underground every single day. That dwarves a football crowd. Those people aren't travelling for fun, they're going to work.


----------



## HarlequinCat

DogLover1981 said:


> The hysteria over this virus is getting ridiculous. Do people plan on no international travel forever because of the flu or colds? It's quite possible this new virus will become seasonal and it's present all over the world now. Do people plan on shutting down travel every winter because of it? I doubt people would approve of that. O.O


I dont think theres any hysteria? The papers are a bit zealous, telling of panic buying, or continuously updating infection and deaths. But in shops people aren't panicked. Theres a very few people buying ridiculous amounts of toilet paper and all that, but everyone else calm, and the most of the shops are well stocked.

As to travel it seems important to reduce the movements of people for now. This isnt just the flu. It's already crippling Italys health care. And it's not just the old seriously ill.

Once people have built resistance to it, if it keeps coming back then it will be no worse than flu, and healthcare will be prepared with vaccines for various strains. For now no one is resistant as it is a strain not seen before, therefore little immunity. Yes for a lot of people symptoms are mild, but for others this is not the case.


----------



## catz4m8z

HarlequinCat said:


> I found a news article from the BBC from 2018, 100 years after, saying about what would happen now. It's worth a read, it's very interesting!
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181120-what-if-a-deadly-influenza-pandemic-broke-out-today
> 
> I'm not saying people should panic. But it is something worse than regular flu, especially if hospitals are overwhelmed, or medication runs out


Just read it...very interesting, and pretty terrifying! On the plus side at least this one isnt as bad as Spanish flu. Back then it wiped out healthy adults which would of had a huge effect on every aspect on life. This one is just a mild flu for 98% of people (and barely effects kids at all). Its a harsh point but the fact it targets the elderly and vulnerable is going to have the least effect on the economy and day to day life.



MilleD said:


> But if it becomes seasonal I assume it would end up being something that is vaccinated against (presuming they can make one)?


give it a couple of years and this will be just another winter bug like the flu or norovirus....


----------



## Boxer123

Just waiting for the press conference my favourite quote of the day from a news reader..

‘closing schools would be like a snow day on steroids’


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-chinese-wet-market-photos-2020-1
> 
> *Both the new coronavirus and SARS outbreaks likely started in Chinese wet markets. Photos show what the markets look like.*


I'm just listening to Kate Jones from the University College London on a BBC Radio 4 Inside Science programme on the Coronavirus (apart from The Archers, I swear it's all that's been on this channel today!) Anyway she says that it is probably from bats and maybe some intermediary mammal which is the source. Probably caused by how animals are kept and moved around places. She got rather cross when people claim it can be caught from domestic pets as the way humans and animals bodies process the virus the outcomes are very different.

The bit about developing vaccines is very interesting but very technical. Well worth a listen but scientists have said it's not going to be now. But anti HIV drugs can possibly prevent the virus, novo virus drugs may fit but (sadly) they need to see if it works on an appropriate animal model, then into human trials. It may be ready for next time, if it comes back, but they aren't there yet.

Either way the key thing is understanding it, to cure it.


----------



## MollySmith

Delay phase announced.

I think kudos to government for update just now (no, am not converting, no shrine to Boris here). It seems muted and sensible, given that anything else will create panic. We have some time to prepare. Someone (chief medical officer?) has said that if they to close schools, it maybe 13-16 weeks to be meaningful. I guess they are thinking of the wider lifecycle of the virus based on what may happen in China and if it still falls or not.

Sober warning that families may yet still loses loved ones, I hope that all of you and your families are safe.


----------



## DogLover1981

HarlequinCat said:


> I dont think theres any hysteria? The papers are a bit zealous, telling of panic buying, or continuously updating infection and deaths. But in shops people aren't panicked. Theres a very few people buying ridiculous amounts of toilet paper and all that, but everyone else calm, and the most of the shops are well stocked. .


I'm seeing lots of event cancellations here in the states and talk of school closures.


----------



## purringcats

We are in the next phase, the "delay" phase but no schools closing unless advised to, so I guess a sigh of relief for parents.

The PM and Chief medical advisor is saying if you have mild symptoms to stay at home for 7 days and your whole household must do so at the same time and not to ring 111. Only phone 111 if your symptoms are more severe. Tempurature to look out for if you take your temperature at home is 37.8° and the cough must be continuous.

Interesting the advise being given right now and helpful.


----------



## rona

Was supposed to be going on a mini cruise next month. Pleased to say that they have extended their cancellation policy or offered for us to book at a later date.
Those that aren't at great risk, could still go and get an extra £100 spending money.

Very impressed. We will be changing to 2021 or 2022

A local school has sent kids home but they get them from all over the country


----------



## MollySmith

Jeremy Hunt saying that we are about 4 weeks behind Italy but, like Taiwan who has just 1 reported case, we have excellent public health tracing, one of the best in the world.

He's concerned that we aren't closing down big events in relation to older or vulnerable groups. Also concerned about parliament but they need spacing and more disinfecting Westminster (inset appropriate germ related MP joke here).

He said the 5-10,000 number puts us in a 'perilous situation'.

edited to say Chris Smith says that currently no risk and best thing is fresh air and walking dogs to increase immunity. Link to listen again to PM is here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3gh


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> We are in the next phase, the "delay" phase but no schools closing unless advised to, so I guess a sigh of relief for parents.
> 
> The PM and Chief medical advisor is saying if you have mild symptoms to stay at home for 7 days and your whole household must do so at the same time and not to ring 111. Only phone 111 if your symptoms are more severe. Tempurature to look out for if you take your temperature at home is 37.8° and the cough must be continuous.
> 
> Interesting the advise being given right now and helpful.


No 2 son is a doorman at one venue and bar supervisor at another
Yesterday he had a hacking cough (he's a steam vaper) and a temp just below 38
Despite my pleas, his other half, who works in a chippy, talked him out of phoning 111
With today's news, he's text the area manager of the doorman venue, to be told
"Tough, XXX is off, you have to cover"
So mummy has written him a very strongly worded text, including the SSP and 7 day isolation facts, for son to send
Other half, however, is refusing to stay home or keep her son home, as
"There's only been one case in Suffolk and we're over reacting, plus we have no symptoms"
Squeeze me!!
Both of them work in extreme customer facing roles!

And people wonder why the country can't get a handle on it


----------



## cheekyscrip

Jaf said:


> I'm in Andalucia, southern Spain. The local small town has just closed the libraries, sports centres and markets. No confirmed cases yet. Must admit I'm scared now. I'm at risk due to poor health and I can't just get medications and food delivered as that service doesn't exist here, so I have to drive into town. I'll run out of food, especially cat food, in 2 weeks. Should I bulk buy now whilst the town is relatively safe? I'm guessing that the shops will be full tomorrow with everyone worriedly buying everything in sight. Maybe wait a week. I don't know.
> 
> I have a hospital outpatient appointment early April, I have no idea if it will go ahead.


Get the essentials now, your meds, supply of food for you and the cat , just to be on safe side. Then hibernate.

It should be fine for a bit longer but nothing wrong with some supplies.

Best luck .

I will stock up on Saturday as frontier might close.


----------



## Magyarmum

As @Calvine and @rona have pointed out diabetes affects the circulation. Not only the lungs but particularly the feet and legs.which can result in gangrene and amputation.

My son has had Type 1 diabetes since the age of 16. He's now 56 my and, although he's healthy and his diabetes is under control, he suffers from numb feet and is beginning to find it difficult to walk too far. Naturally he's worried because he probably has the same risk as I do at 80 years old but with no medical condition.

He and my DIL have been stocking up on food and as soon as the weather has improved they're moving their yacht offshore, so anyone who cares to visit them will ether have long swim or have come out by boat. He says they're prepared to stay at sea for up to 6 months.

.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> No 2 son is a doorman at one venue and bar supervisor at another
> Yesterday he had a hacking cough (he's a steam vaper) and a temp just below 38
> Despite my pleas, his other half, who works in a chippy, talked him out of phoning 111
> With today's news, he's text the area manager of the doorman venue, to be told
> "Tough, XXX is off, you have to cover"
> So mummy has written him a very strongly worded text, including the SSP and 7 day isolation facts, for son to send
> Other half, however, is refusing to stay home or keep her son home, as
> "There's only been one case in Suffolk and we're over reacting, plus we have no symptoms"
> Squeeze me!!
> Both of them work in extreme customer facing roles!
> 
> And people wonder why the country can't get a handle on it


This is what is worrying me that for what ever reasons people won't self isolate, consequently I have in order to try and not get the virus so I can have my cancer treatment and not delay it. 
I'm getting a bit twitchy at the moment as I have a slight cough, a bit of a tickle. However I have noticed if I spend any time in a hospital I will have a slight cough afterward for a few days. I think there must be something I can't detect by smell that irritates my throat. Hospitals are always too warm for me anyway.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> This is what is worrying me that for what ever reasons people won't self isolate, consequently I have in order to try and not get the virus so I can have my cancer treatment and not delay it.
> I'm getting a bit twitchy at the moment as I have a slight cough, a bit of a tickle. However I have noticed if I spend any time in a hospital I will have a slight cough afterward for a few days. I think there must be something I can't detect by smell that irritates my throat. Hospitals are always too warm for me anyway.


i can only apologise to you , and all others who are affected by such selfishness, for her attitude
what annoys me is she knows what it is to lose a child
but my child doesnt count :Rage
if it werent for the fact my son knows what i think of her, ( I cant control who he falls in love with, so i try to stay schtum) I'd phone 111 myself and dob them in


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> This is what is worrying me that for what ever reasons people won't self isolate, consequently I have in order to try and not get the virus so I can have my cancer treatment and not delay it.
> I'm getting a bit twitchy at the moment as I have a slight cough, a bit of a tickle. However I have noticed if I spend any time in a hospital I will have a slight cough afterward for a few days. I think there must be something I can't detect by smell that irritates my throat. Hospitals are always too warm for me anyway.


Indeed, OH is restarting chemo next Wednesday, which on top of his recent pulmonary embolism and infection will leave him very vulnerable.

The chemo unit is a separate hub so at least we won't be in the thick of it, but we'll be taking extra precautions to avoid close contact with anyone.

Especially as there will be some who knowingly are an infection risk but won't self isolate.


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Indeed, OH is restarting chemo next Wednesday, which on top of his recent pulmonary embolism and infection will leave him very vulnerable.
> 
> The chemo unit is a separate hub so at least we won't be in the thick of it, but we'll be taking extra precautions to avoid close contact with anyone.
> 
> Especially as there will be some who knowingly are an infection risk but won't self isolate.


I don't think I'm so vulnerable with radiotherapy, something I'm going to have to ask about. Like you two we're taking precautions and avoiding people as much as possible. Apart from hospital trips I haven't done anything for the last two weeks. Bit boring especially as I missed a good talk at WI last night,mbut never mind, it's not forever.


----------



## mrs phas

MollySmith said:


> edited to say Chris Smith says that currently no risk and best thing is fresh air and walking dogs to increase immunity. Link to listen again to PM is here
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3gh


Yet here it says if you've got to self isolate, no walking, 
BBC News - Coronavirus: People with fever or persistent cough told to self-isolate

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/


----------



## westie~ma

Is anyone else watching John Campbell on u tube?


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Yet here it says if you've got to self isolate, no walking,
> BBC News - Coronavirus: People with fever or persistent cough told to self-isolate
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/


This was in context of not self isolating but in trying to carry on. The person calling in asked if it was still safe to walk dogs and they didn't seem to imply they had Covid 19 or symptoms as I understood it.

Having listened again, I don't know how much this delaying of delay stage (partial delay?!) isn't about buying time to get the money and resources together for the NHS?

OH and I have chatted and we're going to delay in a decidedly amateur way by not going to big events, keeping ourselves quiet. He's in the prime age range and I have immune issues with no wish to go through pneumonia again or anything like it. We will need food stuff so I'm going out earlier and keeping trips to essential only when we're back home (packing now... boooo)


----------



## mrs phas

MollySmith said:


> This was in context of not self isolating but in trying to carry on. The person calling in asked if it was still safe to walk dogs and they didn't seem to imply they had Covid 19 or symptoms as I understood it.


thank you for the ex[lanation
too many people saying too many things that my head is spinning


----------



## MollySmith

Damms edit and save takes soooo long (the joy of being reunited with my broadband is truly snowflakey joy... fickle sort I am!)


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> thank you for the ex[lanation
> too many people saying too many things that my head is spinning


I know! Me too. I do recommend PM as it was very sensible and there was a call from someone really concerned she was in a vulnerable group with very pragmatic advice which I felt filled in the gaps left by the press conference from Westminster.

I was feeling a bit worried I agreed with Jeremy Hunt (in the same unclean feeling I agreed with Michael Hestletine over that long forgotten Brexit thing!)

I hope your family are okay, I saw your previous post.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

westie~ma said:


> Is anyone else watching John Campbell on u tube?


Yes. I watch him every day. He does 2 videos sometimes.


----------



## westie~ma

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yes. I watch him every day. He does 2 videos sometimes.


I'm doing a catch up, disease evolution


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

westie~ma said:


> I'm doing a catch up, disease evolution


He's very good. I trust his advice ☺


----------



## Billbailey

MissMiloKitty said:


> He's very good. I trust his advice ☺


That's interesting. On my local community page I have a thread where I'm putting together all the information that can be trusted (as far as I can tell) in an attempt to counter all the nonsense floating around FB and Twitter. Would this be a good source to add to it?


----------



## MollySmith

Something else that may encourage us to keep a low profile - I found this induced more anxiety for me to me honest but then I've been stuck indoors due to torrential rain listening to the news and longing for the days of Brexit
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

and (from the website, beware it uses sweary language)
https://staythe****home.com/


----------



## 3dogs2cats

The hand gel dispensers were all full when I entered the hospital this morning but when I left later in the day those nearest the entrance/exit was empty again. I presume they just cant keep up with refilling them throughout the day.
Dog food but not cat food has been wiped out at my supermarket and today for the first time I heard irritation that items are not available and asking the staff why they weren't restocking. The lady restocking the toiletries was getting a bit hassled by people wanting to know when hand gel would become available!


----------



## Billbailey

It's not fun working in retail when there's a run on a certain product. Everyone acts like it's your fault.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Smolmaus said:


> That vaccines are spoiling us somehow??
> 
> No they are not.
> We are not immune to this because it's a novel virus.


----------



## mrs phas

this has just been posted on a vegan page i belong to ( supporting local business) i have messaged the owners and said it is not only misinformation, it is unsubstantiated and could lead to deaths, because vegans will, wrongly, believe theyre immune to covid-19


----------



## Jaf

cheekyscrip said:


> Get the essentials now, your meds, supply of food for you and the cat , just to be on safe side. Then hibernate.
> 
> It should be fine for a bit longer but nothing wrong with some supplies.
> 
> Best luck .
> 
> I will stock up on Saturday as frontier might close.


Too late! I went today, the supermarket had no milk, vegetables/fruit, bread/flour, meat, eggs, toilet paper or cat biscuits/litter. I will try again next week as the cats will only eat 1 brand of cat biscuits. They will eat all tinned cat food and I have plenty of that.

Might have to practice using the bidet!!

I hope the border doesn't close on you! Worrying!


----------



## HarlequinCat

MollySmith said:


> Something else that may encourage us to keep a low profile - I found this induced more anxiety for me to me honest but then I've been stuck indoors due to torrential rain listening to the news and longing for the days of Brexit
> https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
> 
> and (from the website, beware it uses sweary language)
> https://staythe****home.com/


First link was really interesting, much more detail than a lot of articles out there!


----------



## niamh123

My daughter works for Admiral insurance on Wednesday all the employees were sent an email which asked if they or anyone they live with have any certain medical issues it was a tick the box questionnaire .Hubby has Diabetes I have auto immune disease and my daughter Kelly has asthma.When she got home from work last night she told us certain employees had been called into a meeting one of which was my daughter,they were told because of the health problems they had stated on the questionnaire they were to stay home with full pay and would be contacted when they were able to return to work.


----------



## Lurcherlad

DS works in London for a stockbroker and they are making provision for staff to have the relevant technology available to work from home. Given the nature of the business that could work well for months, I guess.

That eases my worries a little as he travels back and forth crammed into an overcrowded train (with crap ventilation) every day.

OH has also been doing some work from home in the last few days which could extend his time away from the office even once he’s feeling better throughout his treatment.

I will keep my outings to the minimum too.

If enough people take precautionary measures there will be less out there (with more space between them) to at least reduce the spread of the virus to manageable levels until the change in weather helps to kill it.

Obviously, there will be some negative economic fall out but I feel we’re a bit between a rock and a hard place tbh.


----------



## havoc

Are they still testing people? I got the impression it was now just stay home and only call 111 if you are ill enough to need help.

And - can someone explain why people went mad for masks when the main problem is the virus on surfaces so vinyl gloves would surely be a more effective measure?


----------



## havoc

For those who are feeling anxious this article explains the differences between us and Italy. Yes things are going to get worse before they get better but we shouldn't look at scary reports from elsewhere and assume a direct duplication.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-51858987


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Are they still testing people? I got the impression it was now just stay home and only call 111 if you are ill enough to need help.
> 
> And - can someone explain why people went mad for masks when the main problem is the virus on surfaces so vinyl gloves would surely be a more effective measure?


The same thought had occurred to me!

I don't have masks at home but do have a stock of disposable gloves which I have to wear when preparing onions and garlic as I'm allergic to the juice! I was very tempted to wear them to protect me from potential contamination from pushing a shopping trolley, but chickened out as I didn't want to look foolish, considering that no one in my area is panicking and everyone is going about their business as normal


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> I was very tempted to wear them to protect me from potential contamination from pushing a shopping trolley


Can't hurt and they're less obvious than a mask. I put on a pair of ordinary fabric gloves to use the cashpoint the other day


----------



## rona

Does anyone else feel that they are in the middle of a disaster movie?


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Can't hurt and they're less obvious than a mask. I put on a pair of ordinary fabric gloves to use the cashpoint the other day


You've still got to remember not to touch your face with the gloves on though, otherwise they are pointless.

I still think the best advice is just wash hands often and well and try to avoid touching your face in between.


----------



## Bisbow

rona said:


> Does anyone else feel that they are in the middle of a disaster movie?


I have just said exactly that to OH


----------



## Magyarmum

More like a sick comedy with an American idiot in the leading role


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Has anyone else got the music to Jaws in their head


 With me it's the 'Twilight Zone' theme tune.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> You've still got to remember not to touch your face with the gloves on though, otherwise they are pointless.


I take them off straight away after touching the risky surface. Doesn't stop me washing hands as normal but the idea was to prevent the virus being transferred to my hands in the first place.


----------



## catz4m8z

So the plan is to carry on as normal really? Im surprised that they arent even banning large recreational events like sporting things and concerts.
But then again if we dont test people I suppose it will keep our numbers low! Maybe thats Boris' plan....:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Im surprised that they arent even banning large recreational events like sporting things and concerts.


They are stopping any event of more than 500 people in Scotland BUT admit it is not because it would stop the spread. It's to free up police etc. for more essential duties. One infected person in an enclosed space with a few people will apparently infect more than at an open air event with thousands.

I'm really glad we didn't close schools yet. I can't imagine anything more designed to spread the virus than a country full of bored teenagers wandering around the shops, touching everything.


----------



## Calvine

Took cat to vet yesterday and bottle of hand sanitiser on front desk; receptionist suggested to people that they should use it. Was at the doctor's later that day: bottle on reception desk, but if you have an appointment you don't go to the desk, they have a thing on waiting room wall where you check in; so you don't see the bottle at reception until you leave.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> One infected person in an enclosed space with a few people will apparently infect more than at an open air event with thousands.
> .


Not sure that makes alot of sense TBH. Say 1 in 100 people are infected... surely 100 people in a concert of a thousand will infect more then 1 in a room of a 100? (Im not great at maths though!).


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Not sure that makes alot of sense TBH. Say 1 in 100 people are infected... surely 100 people in a concert of a thousand will infect more then 1 in a room of a 100? (Im not great at maths though!).


I'm guessing it's about how the virus is passed on. This seems to be more about direct contact with the virus than anything airborne - in that we'd all be wary of anyone coughing or sneezing and anyone who is already ill rather than just in the incubation period wouldn't be well enough to be there. Outdoor events involve much less touching of surfaces than indoor ones.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> Outdoor events involve much less touching of surfaces than indoor ones.


They should at least ban mosh pits then!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> They should at least ban mosh pits then!LOL


I'd be more wary at the bar. I'd certainly not rest my hands on any bar or counter top.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> I'm guessing it's about how the virus is passed on. This seems to be more about direct contact with the virus than anything airborne - in that we'd all be wary of anyone coughing or sneezing and *anyone who is already ill rather than just in the incubation period wouldn't be well enough to be there.* Outdoor events involve much less touching of surfaces than indoor ones.


Some people have very mild symptoms though and that is part of the problem, they may not even consider themselves to be ill but of course they are still going to be infecting others.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

3dogs2cats said:


> Some people have very mild symptoms though and that is part of the problem, they may not even consider themselves to be ill but of course they are still going to be infecting others.


 Just to add on to my comment, because I am worried that it may be possible to have the virus but not even be aware I am taking my temperature before going to the hospital to see my mum!


----------



## Cully

Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but is it possible to make your own hand sanitiser now that usual supplies are difficult to get? We know anti bacterial wont work against a virus, and the alcohol content needs to be at least 70%. So how hard/easy can it be?


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> Some people have very mild symptoms though and that is part of the problem, they may not even consider themselves to be ill but of course they are still going to be infecting others.


Absolutely. That's why it spreads - is spreading. A successful virus is one that keeps its host well and walking for a long time.


----------



## Gemmaa

My hayfever is making me a bit paranoid!

Going shopping this morning has significantly increased my anxiety about it all.
Honestly feels like we're in The Walking Dead or something!
I wore a glove for the amazon locker and opening the door/using the pen at the doctors and pharmacy.
Also sprayed myself with Aqueos disinfectant afterwards, and wiped the trolley handle with it 

I know it's not a guarantee and it might not help, but it makes me feel a bit better.
I don't like having to trust other people to be clean!


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> You've still got to remember not to touch your face with the gloves on though, otherwise they are pointless.
> 
> I still think the best advice is just wash hands often and well and try to avoid touching your face in between.


And all the things you've touched while wearing them - a trolley load of shopping for instance.

I contemplated it but figured unless I disinfect each item bought individually before putting them away, there wasn't much point.

I do think though, that wearing vinyl gloves might stop me touching my face without thinking.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> I do think though, that wearing vinyl gloves might stop me touching my face without thinking.


I had a long drive last week and used it to teach myself not to put my hands to my face - had nothing else to think about so became very aware of how often I did it


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> I contemplated it but figured unless I disinfect each item bought individually before putting them away, there wasn't much point.


There's no such thing as 100% in this, you just do the most you can and know you are minimising the risk.
Compared with the infection control measures I had in place when I was still breeding cats and had kittens in the house this is nothing. I used to come back from visiting other breeders or a show and strip down to my underwear as soon as I was through the back door. Clothes went straight in the washing machine before I left the utility room shoes were left there. Hands were scrubbed up to the elbow in the kitchen sink. Then and only then would I consider going beyond the kitchen further into the house. If I'd been clever I would have left clean clothes ready to change into. If not I'd be in my underwear until I got upstairs


----------



## Happy Paws2

Sainsbury's today... as we already know no loo rolls, pasta, paracetamol, soap, today... no lemonade, tinned veg, and chocolate running low:Arghh


----------



## purringcats

Did anyone see the announcement today that the majority of people in the UK would have to catch Covid-19 to build a herd immunity towards it. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-contract-covid-19-for-herd-immunity-11956793


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just seen on the BBC news....all professional football in England to be suspended until early April.

So now I'll have a very unhappy OH under me feet, just what I need every Saturday, Sunday and every night when there should be a game on.


----------



## purringcats

My dad's birthday today.

I asked him if he is going to celebrate it (he normally goes out for a few pints) he said he is not leaving his house at all as he does not want to risk catching coronavirus. Then he said football had been cancelled and wasn't happy but said it is better being safe than sorry.


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> So the plan is to carry on as normal really? Im surprised that they arent even banning large recreational events like sporting things and concerts.
> But then again if we dont test people I suppose it will keep our numbers low! Maybe thats Boris' plan....:Hilarious


I would not believe the numbers that China gives, either.


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> Did anyone see the announcement today that the majority of people in the UK would have to catch Covid-19 to build a herd immunity towards it.
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-contract-covid-19-for-herd-immunity-11956793


Surely that's a no news story.. Journalism at its finest using words to worry more people..

There will be no herd immunity as such because there is no vaccine and its a new disease.. Lord give me strength! This is why its a problem no one has immunity to it!

On a different note.. Went to a local shop instead of my local Tescos. I overheard in there that a few shops/business along the strip were offering an open door policy. If you don't know what it is, as my son works in retail it's keeping the door open permanently so less hand touching as possible. As we all know doors as the worse thing ever. Anyway it's a joint effort on the strip of shops and all agreed. However a few businesses have refused saying they would get cold. Which I know it's will be colder, a lot different to normal but if helps the customers and themselves all to stay open surely its a good thing.


----------



## rona

3dogs2cats said:


> Just to add on to my comment, because I am worried that it may be possible to have the virus but not even be aware I am taking my temperature before going to the hospital to see my mum!


I will do this before visiting my friend.



Cully said:


> Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but is it possible to make your own hand sanitiser now that usual supplies are difficult to get? We know anti bacterial wont work against a virus, and the alcohol content needs to be at least 70%. So how hard/easy can it be?


Keep wondering if taking soap and water with you might help. only trouble would be that you'd have to keep touch the exterior of the water container. 
I have a little bottle of hand sanitiser that I've had for months, but it won't last very long


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Keep wondering if taking soap and water with you might help.


The medics I've seen on TV do stress you need to wash your hands in hot water.


----------



## Jesthar

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just seen on the BBC news....all professional football in England to be suspended until early April.


Well, at least there are some positives, then 

I suspect the Six Nations will follow suit, though, and that WILL annoy me.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> The medics I've seen on TV do stress you need to wash your hands in hot water.


Yes but if you are out and about and have no access to hot water, surely washing in cold would be preferable to not at all?
I suppose you could take a thermos


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> The medics I've seen on TV do stress you need to wash your hands in hot water.


Ideally, yes. But soapy water is going to be better than nothing.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> Did anyone see the announcement today that the majority of people in the UK would have to catch Covid-19 to build a herd immunity towards it.
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-contract-covid-19-for-herd-immunity-11956793


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but is it possible to make your own hand sanitiser now that usual supplies are difficult to get? We know anti bacterial wont work against a virus, and the alcohol content needs to be at least 70%. So how hard/easy can it be?


Ifound this recipe. If you add a few drops of Tea-tree essential oil it should be anti-viral.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...itiser-make-at-home-alcohol-diy-a9376111.html


----------



## Smolmaus

A nice wee summary of the situation as it is! Helping me put some things in perspective!


Jesthar said:


> I suspect the Six Nations will follow suit, though, and that WILL annoy me.


My desk-buddy in work has taken himself off to Paris anyway even tho the match is cancelled. Going to rig up a biohazard tent for him out of plastic bags when he gets back!


----------



## O2.0

I can't get my head around the lost revenue of all these cancelled events and travel. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but this all feels a bit like a pre-meditated disruption, though by who and to what end I just can't imagine.

And as per usual, it's the wealthier who are less affected.


----------



## O2.0

10 reasons not to panic:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020...UWklZt8bguj3h5msXf8O_pRDoR3M2TJv7UwKnqMIx0fm0

TLDR:
1) We know what it is
2) We know how to detect it
3) Situation in China is improving
4) 80% of cases are mild
5) People heal
6) Symptoms appear mild in children
7) The virus can be wiped clean
8) Science is on it globally
9) There are already vaccine prototypes
10) Antiviral trials are underway


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I can't get my head around the lost revenue of all these cancelled events and travel. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but this all feels a bit like a pre-meditated disruption, though by who and to what end I just can't imagine.
> 
> And as per usual, it's the wealthier who are less affected.


My American cousin's wife and her friends are totally convinced it's a plot thought up by the US media and the Democrats to oust Trump at the next election!


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> My American cousin's wife and her friends are totally convinced it's a plot thought up by the US media and the Democrats to oust out Trump at the next election!


:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead 
I heard on tv it was all down to Bill Gates! He'll be thrilled I'm sure.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://fullfact.org/health/wuhan-coronavirus/

*Facts on Coronavirus*


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> My American cousin's wife and her friends are totally convinced it's a plot thought up by the US media and the Democrats to oust out Trump at the next election!


I feel like we'll have a cure for corona before we have a cure for Trump


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Ideally, yes. But soapy water is going to be better than nothing.


I can guarantee children at nurseries won't be using hot water due to health and safety.. I forgot what the temperature has to be but its tepid at best all to do with safety and control of legionnaires disease. Don't forget children especially small ones probably touch everything too, not necessarily bad manners per se but stage of development.


----------



## Billbailey

We've just had our St Patrick's Day Parade cancelled. It was supposed to be on Sunday and it's usually massive. It's going to hit the local pubs and businesses really hard at it's the biggest day of the year and they've probably already bought the extra alcohol.


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> Ifound this recipe. If you add a few drops of Tea-tree essential oil it should be anti-viral.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...itiser-make-at-home-alcohol-diy-a9376111.html


That sounds easy enough providing you can get the alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is like gold dust here at the moment as is aloe vera and some essential oils. It could be that lots of people are making their own too.


----------



## Magyarmum

Billbailey said:


> We've just had our St Patrick's Day Parade cancelled. It was supposed to be on Sunday and it's usually massive. It's going to hit the local pubs and businesses really hard at it's the biggest day of the year and they've probably already bought the extra alcohol.


Hungary has cancelled Sunday's Memorial Day celebrations

https://www.officeholidays.com/holidays/hungary/hungary-national-day

*Revolution Day in Hungary in 2020*


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> That sounds easy enough providing you can get the alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is like gold dust here at the moment as is aloe vera and some essential oils. It could be that lots of people are making their own too.


I've got a big bottle of 99.9& isopropyl alcohol.

Maybe I should split it into bits and market it as Covid19 killer?

I am joking by the way :Angelic


----------



## lullabydream

Billbailey said:


> We've just had our St Patrick's Day Parade cancelled. It was supposed to be on Sunday and it's usually massive. It's going to hit the local pubs and businesses really hard at it's the biggest day of the year and they've probably already bought the extra alcohol.


Well feel sorry for those in Ireland who can't celebrate their own patron Saint.. Schools and colleges closed to 29th of March. Museums etc that have more than 100 people capacity closed, Outdoor events closed with more than 500 people which includes GAA and Hurling, huge events in Ireland.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I've got a big bottle of 99.9& isopropyl alcohol.
> 
> Maybe I should split it into bits and market it as Covid19 killer?
> 
> I am joking by the way :Angelic


I saw a similar one on Amazon for £48.00:Jawdrop


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> That sounds easy enough providing you can get the alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is like gold dust here at the moment as is aloe vera and some essential oils. It could be that lots of people are making their own too.


Surgical spirit is the UK equivalent. Also most essential oits have anti-viral properties.


----------



## Siskin

Apparently proper Russian vodka is suitable


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...us-originated-in-us-gaining-traction-in-china

*'American coronavirus': China pushes propaganda casting doubt on virus origin*


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...us-originated-in-us-gaining-traction-in-china
> 
> *'American coronavirus': China pushes propaganda casting doubt on virus origin*


Yeah that's why there's so many cases in America and so few in Wuhan, China 

Patient zero in the US of all things.

I can see why the Chinese would like us to believe it didn't originate there, as it hardly shows some of their practices in a good light, but really??


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Yeah that's why there's so many cases in America and so few in Wuhan, China
> 
> Patient zero in the US of all things.
> 
> I can see why the Chinese would like us to believe it didn't originate there, as it hardly shows some of their practices in a good light, but really??


Trump has blamed the outbreak in the US on China and the EU which is one of the reasons for the draconian travel ban.


----------



## Smolmaus

lullabydream said:


> Well feel sorry for those in Ireland who can't celebrate their own patron Saint.. Schools and colleges closed to 29th of March. Museums etc that have more than 100 people capacity closed, Outdoor events closed with more than 500 people which includes GAA and Hurling, huge events in Ireland.


I'm in the north like but nobody seems that bothered about the GAA being off. If it needs to be done it needs to be done. The schools being shut is defs the thing people are worried about!

Up here most people seem concerned that we're not doing the same tbh. V few cases here so far but don't want to take that for granted. 


Billbailey said:


> We've just had our St Patrick's Day Parade cancelled. It was supposed to be on Sunday and it's usually massive. It's going to hit the local pubs and businesses really hard at it's the biggest day of the year and they've probably already bought the extra alcohol.


I'm genuinely much more likely to go for a pint in town now the parades are off lol the bulk of people go to the parades are families and kids who hopefully aren't the ones buying all the booze!


----------



## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> Surgical spirit is the UK equivalent. Also most essential oits have anti-viral properties.


I have a pot of water and cloves on a hotplate burning most of the day. I've done this for years though, started when the kids were young and would bring home every cold in the county. It's a nice smelling way to 'clean' the air, especially in the winter months when we have the windows closed. 
Cloves and clove essential oil will kill just about anything IME  
Plus they smell a heck of a lot nicer than clorox wipes and are less wasteful!


----------



## Billbailey

Smolmaus said:


> I'm genuinely much more likely to go for a pint in town now the parades are off lol the bulk of people go to the parades are families and kids who hopefully aren't the ones buying all the booze!


Yeah.... you've not been to a parade in Birmingham, have you?


----------



## Cully

Billbailey said:


> Yeah.... you've not been to a parade in Birmingham, have you?


.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> The medics I've seen on TV do stress you need to wash your hands in hot water.


Better stock up on Thermos flasks before they're all sold out!


----------



## Smolmaus

Billbailey said:


> Yeah.... you've not been to a parade in Birmingham, have you?


Do yous not just drink in eachothers houses like actual Irish people lol

Drink is cheap in Birmingham from what I remember, that explains it


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> Better stock up on Thermos flasks before they're all sold out!


Is there anything not sold out already? I'm still seeing reports of bare shelves and yet my online Morrison's order arrived yesterday with everything I'd asked for.


----------



## purringcats

havoc said:


> Is there anything not sold out already? I'm still seeing reports of bare shelves and yet my online Morrison's order arrived yesterday with everything I'd asked for.


Same here. My Morrisons order had nothing missing yesterday. I am struggling though to get slots for home deliveries with Morrisons so have booked the next 4 weekly delivery slots.


----------



## HarlequinCat

havoc said:


> Is there anything not sold out already? I'm still seeing reports of bare shelves and yet my online Morrison's order arrived yesterday with everything I'd asked for.


Here our online shop had half the items missing. Had to go to the shops to get what we needed


----------



## havoc

HarlequinCat said:


> Here our online shop had half the items missing. Had to go to the shops to get what we needed


Maybe I order stuff nobody else wants


----------



## havoc

Ah, just remembered. There was one substitution, they had replaced the ‘on offer’ scallops with much more expensive ones. Broke my heart that


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Is there anything not sold out already? I'm still seeing reports of bare shelves and yet my online Morrison's order arrived yesterday with everything I'd asked for.


It's definitely depends where you live. My friends daughter goes to Morrisons with school every Friday to buy her lunch. She's in a special school so has additional needs. She usually buys some kind of microwave rice, meat such as pre packed cooked chicken and she's happy. Not one for chocolate. Today she had bought 4 double deckers, and some iced tea and queried why Morrisons had no food on the shelf. Obviously this is from her perspective, but 2 come out with chocolate bars instead of anything savoury at a supermarket is rather odd for her to be honest. Especially as she would class this as her lunch. Plus she's bought lots of different savoury things prior as she always brings home the receipt to show her mum.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lullabydream said:


> It's definitely depends where you live. My friends daughter goes to Morrisons with school every Friday to buy her lunch. She's in a special school so has additional needs. She usually buys some kind of microwave rice, meat such as pre packed cooked chicken and she's happy. Not one for chocolate. Today she had bought 4 double deckers, and some iced tea and queried why Morrisons had no food on the shelf. Obviously this is from her perspective, but 2 come out with chocolate bars instead of anything savoury at a supermarket is rather odd for her to be honest. Especially as she would class this as her lunch. Plus she's bought lots of different savoury things prior as she always brings home the receipt to show her mum.


Yes it very much depends where you live, our small supermarket isn't a priority when it comes to restocking. They have to keep the highly populated or the big supermarkets, where they do the online shop from, well stocked or as best as they can anyway. It makes sense to keep the online shopping a priority especially in these circumstances but I can see why people who shop locally are annoyed. I can`t get my dog his food at the moment, he likes Butchers Tripe and normally I can get that either in the supermarket and even down at the little shop but all dog food has gone and they don't know when they will get anymore in. We ok at moment have got a good weeks supply but I will have to travel further afield I think and hope I can pick some up from a big supermarket or maybe a big pet shop.


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> Yes it very much depends where you live, our small supermarket isn't a priority when it comes to restocking. They have to keep the highly populated or the big supermarkets, where they do the online shop from, well stocked or as best as they can anyway. It makes sense to keep the online shopping a priority especially in these circumstances but I can see why people who shop locally are annoyed. I can`t get my dog his food at the moment, he likes Butchers Tripe and normally I can get that either in the supermarket and even down at the little shop but all dog food has gone and they don't know when they will get anymore in. We ok at moment have got a good weeks supply but I will have to travel further afield I think and hope I can pick some up from a big supermarket or maybe a big pet shop.


Yes I understand I live in a small town. It's a bloody shame though. As people have said not everyone can stock up or travel and it's a shame people are buying ridiculous amounts of hand-wash etc. People don't over think like this at Christmas when they buy more than enough of food for months for one day.


----------



## havoc

I’ve shopped for most things online for years. Meat and fresh veg I buy from local outlets but just about everything else is delivered. I do pop out to Lidl occasionally for ‘bits’ and there were loo rolls a plenty on Sunday. Don’t know what it’s like now.


----------



## Jonescat

It's very weird. In the local Co-op there is not much soap, paracetemol, disinfectant, canned veg, anything that has a really long shelf life like pasta, sauces etc but loads of fresh stuff. And I was greatly cheered by a lady around 90 lamenting the fact that the football had been cancelled (because she had been going to go) and reckoning that everyone had turned in to snowflakes.

But lots of local functions have been cancelled, the support groups for the elderly are closing for the moment, something I am going to tomorrow has been moved in to a bigger room so that people aren't too close together but can/will still attend, and the pubs are literally begging for customers.

A poster one has put out
"
We have taken precautions to keep the Tavern a Corona Virus Free Zone.

We employ 9 members of staff who all depend on the pub for their wages and we also want to make sure that everyone can still enjoy coming in the pub.

We are now wiping all tables & toilets etc, with disposable paper roll which is then thrown away, rather than clothes that get used throughout the day.

We change and clean all mop heads every day.

All tables and chairs are wiped after customers leave.

If you would like your table & chairs to be wiped again, please ask a member of staff.

We also have alcohol rub behind the bar for staff members to constantly use and we also have it on the bar for customers to use as well.

The chance of Corona Virus getting into the pub is slim....but let's all work together and just make sure everyone is safe."


----------



## havoc

If I had 'elderly neighbours' I would make sure they were stocked up but we're it in this street. Realising that has made me feel very weird


----------



## Elles

My son’s in Madrid.  Looks like he’ll be in Spain longer than he thought. It’s already cost him a fortune in fines lol, he didn’t know you needed a pass for Madrid and he’s been driving around oblivious. Donkey should have asked what the signs meant. Luckily for him it doesn’t matter too much. He can stay there longer, rather than coming home and trying to stay away from me.

His girlfriend is an International language teacher and they’ve closed her school. She thought she had to go in for a meeting on Monday, but they’ve just cancelled it. He says people have been panic buying over there too and everywhere is quiet as the grave. I think they’re going to head to the mountains for a while.


----------



## Boxer123

No loo roll or hand soap here in Sainsbury’s. I get some of the stuff but just don’t understand the loo roll ! I saw a man loading loads into his car.


----------



## havoc

My son has just contacted me to check I am following government advice for old people and haven't booked a cruise


----------



## rona

Went swimming this afternoon. Pool was virtually empty, a lot less risk than even going to a local shop!
Probably the last swim for a while, but the weather is getting better, so a few Kayaking trips will keep me going


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Probably the last swim for a while, but the weather is getting better, so a few Kayaking trips will keep me going


As long as you do something. Mental health is as important as physical well being for the immune system and staying in doing nothing isn't going to help.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> My son has just contacted me to check I am following government advice for old people and haven't booked a cruise


Snap! I had a lecture from mine the other night.


----------



## Billbailey

Just been announced that the Local and Mayoral elections in England have been postponed until May 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51876269


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> As long as you do something. Mental health is as important as physical well being for the immune system and staying in doing nothing isn't going to help.


Plenty of walking and gardening too


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> Snap! I had a lecture from mine the other night.


Were you planning a cruise? It's my idea of hell


----------



## willa

All dried pasta & tin food gone in Waitrose !


----------



## shadowmare

Not been feeling 100% the past couple of days and my placement supervisor was off this week with a chest infection. I went to boots today after work thinking I’ll check my temperature just in case and they were out of stock of those now!


----------



## SusieRainbow

havoc said:


> My son has just contacted me to check I am following government advice for old people and haven't booked a cruise


My son reminded me that being diabetic and 'old' gave me a high chance of mortality if I caught it.
Thanks son !
Although the latest figures seem to show highest mortality in 50-60 yr olds.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

havoc said:


> Can't hurt and they're less obvious than a mask. I put on a pair of ordinary fabric gloves to use the cashpoint the other day


I've been thinking about gloves. You are actually less likely to mindlessly touch your face when you are wearing gloves. We all do it without realising but I always remember not to when I've got gloves on ☺


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

SusieRainbow said:


> My son reminded me that being diabetic and 'old' gave me a high chance of mortality if I caught it.
> Thanks son !
> Although the latest figures seem to show highest mortality in 50-60 yr olds.


Yeah, I read that. It's unsettling information because that age group is only middle aged.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

My mum lives not far from Cheltenham race course and I'm worried that the place is going to be a hotbed now. She is 77 and has asthma.


----------



## mrs phas

SusieRainbow said:


> Ifound this recipe. If you add a few drops of Tea-tree essential oil it should be anti-viral.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...itiser-make-at-home-alcohol-diy-a9376111.html


please dont use vodka as recommended
the stuff on sale to general public is just 40%
not nearly strong enough to be effective


----------



## SusieRainbow

.


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> That sounds easy enough providing you can get the alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is like gold dust here at the moment as is aloe vera and some essential oils. It could be that lots of people are making their own too.


think outside the box
99.9% isopropol

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IPK15BA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Sainsbury's today... as we already know no loo rolls, pasta, paracetamol, soap, today... no lemonade, tinned veg, and chocolate running low:Arghh





Calvine said:


> View attachment 433074


----------



## cheekyscrip

SusieRainbow said:


> My son reminded me that being diabetic and 'old' gave me a high chance of mortality if I caught it.
> Thanks son !
> Although the latest figures seem to show highest mortality in 50-60 yr olds.


Gibraltar banned 60 plus from the buses...


----------



## willa

My nursery has made me paranoid about this virus. We are still open, but lots of parents chosen to take their children away, and we have to record our temps 3 times day. The smallest sniffle or cough from a child we send them home. All children have to use the hand sanitiser on arrival at nursery & we have signs up everywhere.

Paranoid now paranoia has set in


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> please dont use vodka as recommended
> the stuff on sale to general public is just 40%
> not nearly strong enough to be effective


I think this is where we are getting our alcohols mixed up in the media, and molar volumes...

The rubbing alcohol/surgical spirit isn't in chemistry terms a pure alcohol as what's in spirits we buy in bottles per se.. It's classed as a secondary alcohol therefore these percentages going round will be high for making up own sanitizers

Obviously there will be lower percentage of alcohol in our bevarages but molarity may be higher hence why people are mentioning Russian vodka as a source.

Am a bit hazy from my Chemistry days, but I was getting puzzled by what they were saying, but I can still pretty much read symbols and structures. I thought everyone studied alcohols and alkenes and molarity, which basically means strength.

To be fair to anyone, I would rather wash hands if possible, advice of wearing gloves great too. Hand gel has its purposes but just remember, anything with an alcohol in, is highly flammable and probably not good for the skin. At the end of the day the skin is the biggest part of your immune system too. So take care of it as well.


----------



## SbanR

:Hilarious


----------



## rona

We have about two hundred Latex gloves, just right for doing stuff like filling the car, or handling the post or taking in food deliveries etc. Then dispose of them immediately


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> We have about two hundred Latex gloves, just right for doing stuff like filling the car, or handling the post or taking in food deliveries etc. Then dispose of them immediately


I must admit I use them for cleaning and handling raw meat as a rule. Probably seen as wasteful but I try to keep on top of house work.. Cleaning products are nasty.. Raw meat is horrid to touch. Plus hygiene reasons.. Still wash my hands though too!


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> . Still wash my hands though too!


Oh yes, I've never washed my hands so much. Every time I leave my own property, I come back and wash my hands


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> I I thought everyone studied alcohols and alkenes and molarity, which basically means strength.
> 
> .


Well i didnt, but then i did biology and physics, way way back in the 70's
to thick to do chemistry
obviously im not everyone, just speshul


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Oh yes, I've never washed my hands so much. Every time I leave my own property, I come back and wash my hands


Maybe it's because I worked with children with special needs I used to wash my hands a lot, then moved into residential care with special needs washed my hands a lot more as that wasn't for the faint hearted. It's been drilled into me how to wash my hands properly. It's quite funny my OH is now copying my hand washing technique after years of saying why do you have to do all that!


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> Maybe it's because I worked with children with special needs I used to wash my hands a lot, then moved into residential care with special needs washed my hands a lot more as that wasn't for the faint hearted. It's been drilled into me how to wash my hands properly. It's quite funny my OH is now copying my hand washing technique after years of saying why do you have to do all that!


I've worked in messy jobs where I couldn't keep my hands clean. Pig farm, plant nursery and dog walking. My hands have been dirty for at least 75% of my working life


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> I've worked in messy jobs where I couldn't keep my hands clean. Pig farm, plant nursery and dog walking. My hands have been dirty for at least 75% of my working life


I don't mind dirt.. Just bodily fluids of the human kind I am more sensitive too!


----------



## Dave S

B and Q in Hemel Hempstead had toilet rolls near the shop entrance. Pack of 24 for £11.00!!!!


----------



## margy

I've washed my hands after shopping for years as soon as I come in the house , I 
haven't had a cold in all that time.


----------



## lullabydream

margy said:


> I've washed my hands after shopping for years as soon as I come in the house , I
> haven't had a cold in all that time.


That's a good idea.. I don't actually think trolleys and baskets get washed in supermarkets. I tend to wash mine by a funny default by finding something festering in the fridge!

I am wondering all this soap buying how many are washing hands though.. Is it a bit like new years resolution to some. We have hand soap now use it, and they just will for a few days and forget


----------



## Jaf

lullabydream said:


> That's a good idea.. I don't actually think trolleys and baskets get washed in supermarkets. I tend to wash mine by a funny default by finding something festering in the fridge!
> 
> I am wondering all this soap buying how many are washing hands though.. Is it a bit like new years resolution to some. We have hand soap now use it, and they just will for a few days and forget


I'm hoping it will become habit. I must admit though it never occurred to me before all this to wash my hands after something as clean-looking as food shopping. I do now, but still need reminding. I think I probably never have washed my hands as much as I should, but it could be taken to extremes - I mean they say wash hands after touching a cat, well I'm always dirty then! I wash before preparing food, but not if I'm just pouring cereal into a bowl - I'm not touching it after all. All this extra washing has made my hands sore and my thumb tips cracked (painful).


----------



## SusieRainbow

Jaf said:


> All this extra washing has made my hands sore and my thumb tips cracked (painful).


In itself an infection risk. You really need to moisturise like mad too, or wear gloves.


----------



## ChaosCat

All schools and pre schools are closed until the end the Easter holidays (April 19th) here. On Monday and Tuesday parents can send their children at their own risk to arrange care. Children of people working in important jobs (police, fire brigade, medicine) will be looked after in schools by us teachers. But we don’t yet know who decides whose children can come, if we have to keep our school open for one or two children or whether neighbouring schools can cooperate.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> I'm hoping it will become habit. I must admit though it never occurred to me before all this to wash my hands after something as clean-looking as food shopping. I do now, but still need reminding. I think I probably never have washed my hands as much as I should, but it could be taken to extremes - I mean they say wash hands after touching a cat, well I'm always dirty then! I wash before preparing food, but not if I'm just pouring cereal into a bowl - I'm not touching it after all. All this extra washing has made my hands sore and my thumb tips cracked (painful).


If you've only developed sore hands and fingertips since you've been washing your hands more frequently it could be that you're allergic to the soap you're using.

I suffer from sore and cracked thumbs and index finger because I'm allergic to, of all things, the juice from onions and garlic.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Were you planning a cruise? It's my idea of hell


Mine too! The last time I was "incarcerated" on a ship was at the age of 17 when I came home from the US on the Queen Mary. I hated it!

No I was told to self isolate, which as I pointed out to my son, virus or not, is what I do already by virtue of living in a tiny village where I can go for days without seeing a soul!


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> We have about two hundred Latex gloves, just right for doing stuff like filling the car, or handling the post or taking in food deliveries etc. Then dispose of them immediately


According to Chris Smith on the Radio 4 programs (in answer to a person who called in to ask if she should be wiping post or deliveries to protect herself), the Coronavirus isn't passed on surface to surface contact in this way as it doesn't survive that long.

I'm allergic to latex but did find a brand of latex free biodegradable gloves somewhere as I use them to protect my hands from cement when I work on stained glass windows. I'll try to find the link for others.


----------



## Jobeth

ChaosCat said:


> All schools and pre schools are closed until the end the Easter holidays (April 19th) here. On Monday and Tuesday parents can send their children at their own risk to arrange care. Children of people working in important jobs (police, fire brigade, medicine) will be looked after in schools by us teachers. But we don't yet know who decides whose children can come, if we have to keep our school open for one or two children or whether neighbouring schools can cooperate.


The trouble is their definition of 'important' is too restricted. I remember the chaos due to the petrol strikes and what happens when people's bins aren't collected or there are no cleaners? A lot of jobs are important in different ways.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> According to Chris Smith on the Radio 4 programs (in answer to a person who called in to ask if she should be wiping post or deliveries to protect herself), the Coronavirus isn't passed on surface to surface contact in this way as it doesn't survive that long.
> 
> I'm allergic to latex but did find a brand of latex free biodegradable gloves somewhere as I use them to protect my hands from cement when I work on stained glass windows. I'll try to find the link for others.


I read that it can last for several days (depending in the surface) https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

Initially I wasn't too worried but now I'm freaking out. My mum is one of those who is most at risk (she's nearly 80 & has a form of lung cancer). She's a very sociable person which am sure has helped her keep fit (she goes to the gym alot or is out walking) & with her management of her cancer as she has a positive outlook. Unfortunately her condition has deteriorated so she's having problems breathing again which has impacted her walking a lot & now this virus means she can't socialise as much. She still meets up with friends but I worry that as things progress this might not be an option for her.

I am not usually very conscious of hygiene tbh but am now constantly washing my hands & trying to make sure I don't touch my face, etc which is really difficult for me. I'm not so worried about myself but am so worried I might pass something on to my mum


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> I don't actually think trolleys and baskets get washed in supermarkets


 I was talking to the guy at Sainsbury's who sorts out the trolleys and asked him about that. Apparently, yes, they are washed, but on the down side, he has twice found a trolley containing a shitty nappy. :Jawdrop:Jawdrop


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> According to Chris Smith on the Radio 4 programs (in answer to a person who called in to ask if she should be wiping post or deliveries to protect herself), the Coronavirus isn't passed on surface to surface contact in this way as it doesn't survive that long.
> 
> I'm allergic to latex but did find a brand of latex free biodegradable gloves somewhere as I use them to protect my hands from cement when I work on stained glass windows. I'll try to find the link for others.


To be honest the thing is, coughs and colds, and flu still go round.. Which can still be passed person to person. 
Viruses don't have to survive that long to pass on to others. 
The current guideline if you have a hacking cough or raised temperature you stay at home, staying 2 meters away from everyone in your house. No sleeping in the same bedroom as anyone, whilst other people go about their daily business for a week. People with say children, who bring home viruses which are likely to mutate could be self isolating a lot, just for a raised temperature which could be anything. 
I guess it's better to protect yourself from anything to be honest especially if you might be in contact at 'High risk' people.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I was talking to the guy at Sainsbury's who sorts out the trolleys and asked him about that. Apparently, yes, they are washed, but on the down side, he has twice found a trolley containing a shitty nappy. :Jawdrop:Jawdrop


Has anyone cleaned their mobile phone?

Just seen on the TV how important it is, and I suppose by extension, your computer, camera and land line!

And then there's the steering wheel, hand brake, gear stick etc in your car as well as door handles, taps knobs and other things you've touched around the house!

The list is e n d l eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> Has anyone cleaned their mobile phone?
> 
> Just seen on the TV how important it is, and I suppose by extension, your computer, camera and land line!
> 
> And then there's the steering wheel, hand brake, gear stick etc in your car as well as door handles, taps knobs and other things you've touched around the house!
> 
> The list is e n d l eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!


Yes I do.. But I guess those buying hand-wash wouldn't think to do so! Probably glued to their phone to shop, and from the shop! 
Plus the TV remote controls too.. I have seen some really grimey ones in people's houses that must be crawling in nasties.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> Yes I do.. But I guess those buying hand-wash wouldn't think to do so! Probably glued to their phone to shop, and from the shop!
> Plus the TV remote controls too.. I have seen some really grimey ones in people's houses that must be crawling in nasties.


My mobile phone is something I hadn't really thought about because I rarely use it! We don't get a signal at home so the only time I take it out of my handbag is when I remember to charge it I've owned it for over a year and made precisely one phone call and use it mainly to play solitaire!

I do have antibacterial gel cleaner which I use to clean my laptop, TV, and cameras, and the rest gets cleaned with a damp micro-cloth!


----------



## SbanR

The hand washing message has been so well drummed home almost everyone is washing their hands more diligently. However, without exception, I still see them turning off the Dirty tap with their Clean hands!!


----------



## Magyarmum

The toilets/washrooms in the supermarkets and petrol station coffee shops over here normally have the self activating taps that you don't have to touch.


----------



## MollySmith

What’s with rumour on bottled water? I’ve seen more people than usual bulk buying bottles of it? I can’t imagine that tap water is unsafe!


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> I read that it can last for several days (depending in the surface) https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
> 
> Initially I wasn't too worried but now I'm freaking out. My mum is one of those who is most at risk (she's nearly 80 & has a form of lung cancer). She's a very sociable person which am sure has helped her keep fit (she goes to the gym alot or is out walking) & with her management of her cancer as she has a positive outlook. Unfortunately her condition has deteriorated so she's having problems breathing again which has impacted her walking a lot & now this virus means she can't socialise as much. She still meets up with friends but I worry that as things progress this might not be an option for her.
> 
> I am not usually very conscious of hygiene tbh but am now constantly washing my hands & trying to make sure I don't touch my face, etc which is really difficult for me. I'm not so worried about myself but am so worried I might pass something on to my mum


Blimey! That's a worry because that's two different messages from both reliable sources though I'm keeping in mind what has been said about WHO. But still better safe of course. I wish there was one reliable source.

I'm so sorry about your mum. My best friend has cancer and just had her last chemo treatment but her white cell count is very low so she's having to isolate.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> Blimey! That's a worry because that's two different messages from both reliable sources though I'm keeping in mind what has been said about WHO. But still better safe of course. I wish there was one reliable source.
> 
> I'm so sorry about your mum. My best friend has cancer and just had her last chemo treatment but her white cell count is very low so she's having to isolate.


Thanks, it is a worry for her regarding her socialising. I self isolate pretty much as my normal behaviour (when not at work in the office) but m mum goes out every day. It's getting a balance tho as being cooped up indoors every day would be upsetting for her. She's being sensible; no hugging friends, not touching too many things, no more going to London to concerts, etc.

I agree there are so many things being posted & so much conflicting information. I'm trying not to read too much as it's making me feel really anxious. I worked from home again yesterday as & the weather was so nice I was able to get out & have a 7 mile run which really helped & made me feel so much better.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Blimey! That's a worry because that's two different messages from both reliable sources


I think it's because they're working on an 'up to' guesstimate. When I was breeding cats the big bogeyman was Feline Coronavirus which causes FIP. It had taken years of dedicated study to come up with - it can last 'up to' 8 weeks on some surfaces in cold weather. That was obviously an extreme example under controlled conditions and not an everyday scenario but as you can imagine it was the oft quoted figure by doom merchants.

I am still using the cleaning method for hard surfaces devised by Dr. Diane Addie for that particular coronavirus - doesn't mean it's the best for this one but it's as good as any.


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks, it is a worry for her regarding her socialising. I self isolate pretty much as my normal behaviour (when not at work in the office) but m mum goes out every day. It's getting a balance tho as being copped up indoors every day would be upsetting for her. She's being sensible; no hugging friends, not touching too many things, no more going to London to concerts, etc.
> 
> I agree there are so many things being posted & so much conflicting information. I'm trying not to read too much as it's making me feel really anxious. I worked from home again yesterday as & the weather was so nice I was able to get out & have a 7 mile run which really helped & made me feel so much better.


It is that balance between mental and physical health isn't it? My husband, by age, is high risk so he's not going out but we've agree he will walk Molly so he's getting fresh air and may see a few friends as he's a sociable sort. He will miss football and pub. I'm just waiting to see if the University will close to all staff including us on contract. Apart from that, I don't have to leave here unless it's shopping but we can manage with the veg box, it'll be a good diet!

My parents both have underlying health conditions and again, age makes them at risk but they're determined to carry on as normal. I'm not sure if I'm admiring their fortitude or alarmed.

I've been out this morning for a run and it struck me that the biggest mass gathering was the queue outside Sainsbury's at 7am...

It's hard not to get anxious, I read a few good posts on Anxiety.org which made me feel better.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> What's with rumour on bottled water? I've seen more people than usual bulk buying bottles of it? I can't imagine that tap water is unsafe!


Bottled water was mentioned even before the loo roll drama. I believe it's a result of modern communication - starts in a country where it *may* be a legitimate concern and then pictures of empty shelves flash around the world.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> I think it's because they're working on an 'up to' guesstimate. When I was breeding cats the big bogeyman was Feline Coronavirus which causes FIP. It had taken years of dedicated study to come up with - it can last 'up to' 8 weeks on some surfaces in cold weather. That was obviously an extreme example under controlled conditions and not an everyday scenario but as you can imagine it was the oft quoted figure by doom merchants.
> 
> I am still using the cleaning method for hard surfaces devised by Dr. Diane Addie for that particular coronavirus - doesn't mean it's the best for this one but it's as good as any.


Yes, I guess it's that fine line of managing responses too.

You're a mind reader... I was going to ask about house cleaning, I'll look it up.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Bottled water was mentioned even before the loo roll drama. I believe it's a result of modern communication - starts in a country where it *may* be a legitimate concern and then pictures of empty shelves flash around the world.


Oh gods, so much for being plastic free...! Or sensible!


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> You're a mind reader... I was going to ask about house cleaning, I'll look it up.


I'll give it you, couldn't be more simple 
It was devised for litter trays as fecal matter was the main problem.
First you clean with detergent - a squirt of washing up liquid in a bowl of water. Then you apply a 1:32 solution of bleach in water to the surface and allow to air dry.

Bleach is not a cleaner and is inactivated by organic matter - hence why you need to clean first.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Sorry if this has already been done before, if not you may like to check your area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274


----------



## Magyarmum

The new Coronavirus masks are being sent to every store in the US


----------



## SusieRainbow

SbanR said:


> The hand washing message has been so well drummed home almost everyone is washing their hands more diligently. However, without exception, I still see them turning off the Dirty tap with their Clean hands!!


I don't know if it helps but I use right hand for wiping and flushing, left hand for taps. And obviously sanitise everything regularly.
I cleaned my phone yesterday following the BBC news video on You-tube, will have a go at all the other gadgets today using the same method.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Yes I do.. But I guess those buying hand-wash wouldn't think to do so! Probably glued to their phone to shop, and from the shop!
> Plus the TV remote controls too.. I have seen some really grimey ones in people's houses that must be crawling in nasties.


I did all ours the other day with antibacterial wipes, including door knobs, remotes, tablets, PlayStation etc. Especially those in DS's room


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> I'll give it you, couldn't be more simple
> It was devised for litter trays as fecal matter was the main problem.
> First you clean with detergent - a squirt of washing up liquid in a bowl of water. Then you apply a 1:32 solution of bleach in water to the surface and allow to air dry.
> 
> Bleach is not a cleaner and is inactivated by organic matter - hence why you need to clean first.


But isn't how we should clean in say anywhere especially the kitchen, and say in multi use areas. I am only saying this because I have had to do various cross contamination work within my job, and to me its basic common sense. You clean with a detergent, then disinfect. Simple. It's not rocket science per se.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cleo38 said:


> I read that it can last for several days (depending in the surface) https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
> 
> Initially I wasn't too worried but now I'm freaking out. My mum is one of those who is most at risk (she's nearly 80 & has a form of lung cancer). She's a very sociable person which am sure has helped her keep fit (she goes to the gym alot or is out walking) & with her management of her cancer as she has a positive outlook. Unfortunately her condition has deteriorated so she's having problems breathing again which has impacted her walking a lot & now this virus means she can't socialise as much. She still meets up with friends but I worry that as things progress this might not be an option for her.
> 
> I am not usually very conscious of hygiene tbh but am now constantly washing my hands & trying to make sure I don't touch my face, etc which is really difficult for me. I'm not so worried about myself but am so worried I might pass something on to my mum


 I am the same I was not worried but I am now, not for myself but for my mum, she is currently in hospital and I very worried about her coming into contact with the virus as I know she wont survive it. I am being constantly washing my hands and I take my temperature before going to see her. My Husbands job is going to be very effected by this and my daughter is already struggling with her business as people are just not out and about on the high St. 
I hope your mum is ok Cleo38


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> But isn't how we should clean in say anywhere especially the kitchen, and say in multi use areas. I am only saying this because I have had to do various cross contamination work within my job, and to me its basic common sense. You clean with a detergent, then disinfect. Simple. It's not rocket science per se.


People don't like the simple stuff though do they  They're buying expensive products with 'anti' this or that splashed across the packaging.


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> I am the same I was not worried but I am now, not for myself but for my mum, she is currently in hospital and I very worried about her coming into contact with the virus as I know she wont survive it. I am being constantly washing my hands and I take my temperature before going to see her. My Husbands job is going to be very effected by this and my daughter is already struggling with her business as people are just not out and about on the high St.
> I hope your mum is ok Cleo38


So sorry to be reading this. Such a worry

My son says the say about the high Street too, he works in retail and says its absolutely dead currently. As he still lives at home he's of course happy to leave early but he's lucky. It's not so easy for others.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Talking to the lady on the checkout early this morning (7.30) she said everyone is going mad yesterday was worse than Christmas and was dreading today.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> People don't like the simple stuff though do they  They're buying expensive products with 'anti' this or that splashed across the packaging.


Definitely not.. Plus I don't believe they are actually cleaning so whatever they are doing just say using disinfectant if they are bothering, any dirt really is acting like a big petri dish I am sure for all nasties.


----------



## Cleo38

3dogs2cats said:


> I am the same I was not worried but I am now, not for myself but for my mum, she is currently in hospital and I very worried about her coming into contact with the virus as I know she wont survive it. I am being constantly washing my hands and I take my temperature before going to see her. My Husbands job is going to be very effected by this and my daughter is already struggling with her business as people are just not out and about on the high St.
> I hope your mum is ok Cleo38


So sorry to read this, it is a very worrying time for so many reasons. I'm in a similar situation, as well as worrying about my mum I am also concerned about this affecting my job. We should have been getting more projects to coming through but nothing is happening so something is up, we just aren't being told. My BIL, my niece & her BF all work in the aviation industry which has been massively affected by all this & there will be job losses/pay cuts for many of them. I worry for so many people as many businesses will be affected by people not spending money which will impact us all.

It is a worrying time but I am really trying not to get too stressed out about it … which is very difficult at times. I'm not feeling great today which I think is due to me worrying too much & not sleeping rather than anything sinister but I am taking this time to try to chill out a bit, not rush round doing too many jobs. etc. Am going to do some training with the dogs, have a walk with them in the forest, listen to some podcasts, do some yoga/mindfulness & have a lovely dinner this evening!


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> What's with rumour on bottled water? I've seen more people than usual bulk buying bottles of it? *I can't imagine that tap water is unsafe*!


No tap water's OK if you can filter it, otherwise it smells of chloride and tastes vile.


----------



## purringcats

Happy Paws2 said:


> Talking to the lady on the checkout early this morning (7.30) she said everyone is going mad yesterday was worse than Christmas and was dreading today.


It has been the same here people going mad shopping.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> No tap water's OK if you can filter it, otherwise it smells of chloride and tastes vile.


Depends where you are in the country
And
How used you are to drinking 'your' water


----------



## purringcats

Some people really need to stay off facebook, twitter etc. Last week someone said that tonic water stops or cures coronavirus (which is totally not true) and some shops got stripped bare of tonic water. I would take what is being said on social media with a very large pinch of salt.


----------



## Cleo38

Surely buying bottled water is just bringing in more possibly contaminated items as well as being so bad for the environment. Tap water is by far the safest option


----------



## SbanR

SusieRainbow said:


> I don't know if it helps but I use right hand for wiping and flushing, left hand for taps. And obviously sanitise everything regularly.
> I cleaned my phone yesterday following the BBC news video on You-tube, will have a go at all the other gadgets today using the same method.


I know I have the correct hand washing technique. It's what I observe others doing in public loos


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> Depends where you are in the country
> And
> How used you are to drinking 'your' water


yup, I quite like my chalky tap water! Its mostly all I drink.

At least it looks like Boris is going to ban mass gatherings....at last! I think the WHO is correct in that we arent doing enough to identify and reduce the spread. There needs to be more proactive efforts to slow the spread, just to give the health services and emergency services time to prepare (My hospital is having a huge shakeup right now to get coronavirus wards ready and try to increase intensive care beds).
Lets face it, the only reason our numbers arent higher is coz we stopped testing people!


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> I'll give it you, couldn't be more simple
> It was devised for litter trays as fecal matter was the main problem.
> First you clean with detergent - a squirt of washing up liquid in a bowl of water. Then you apply a 1:32 solution of bleach in water to the surface and allow to air dry.
> 
> Bleach is not a cleaner and is inactivated by organic matter - hence why you need to clean first.


Thanks



lullabydream said:


> But isn't how we should clean in say anywhere especially the kitchen, and say in multi use areas. I am only saying this because I have had to do various cross contamination work within my job, and to me its basic common sense. You clean with a detergent, then disinfect. Simple. It's not rocket science per se.


I don't use bleach, just hot soapy water and a splash of tea tree oil. If we have to buy Dettol, I will need a face mask, the smell is revolting!


----------



## rona

I've bought myself some seeds of cut and come again salad leaves and Swiss chard, also some stubby carrots that can be grown in containers.
If the worst comes to the worst I've been encouraging pigeon pie into my garden all winter 

I think the food supply will be very limited by the time we get to the end of this


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> Surely buying bottled water is just bringing in more possibly contaminated items as well as being so bad for the environment. Tap water is by far the safest option


Yes! I don't mind tap water at all. Oh well, if people have to waste money....and forget the planet.


----------



## Cully

cheekyscrip said:


> Gibraltar banned 60 plus from the buses...


:Jawdrop:Jawdrop:Jawdrop


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> Tap water is by far the safest option


As I've already said...our tap water :Yuck


----------



## MollySmith

Credit to the always wise Brene Brown


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> I think the food supply will be very limited by the time we get to the end of this


Try not to panic! I reckon we have at most about a month of disruption and the only reason supermarkets might run out of things is the panic buying. Alot of people already have pretty good food stocks in their cupboards (I know I usually have about a months worth of tinned/dried foods in normally).
I think its going to leave everybody in an economic hole though....lots of businesses and workers are going to find themselves in trouble.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> The hand washing message has been so well drummed home almost everyone is washing their hands more diligently. However, without exception, I still see them turning off the Dirty tap with their Clean hands!!


I've got into the habit of washing the tap at the same time as my hands. Not sure if soap will clean the taps but better than nothing.


----------



## MollySmith

Sharing misinformation can make the difference between life and death. Maybe, with so much information going around, we can all take a moment to give a source or check it? So we're not inducing panic ourselves or making this community anxious? 
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-misinformation-health-advice


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Try not to panic! I reckon we have at most about a month of disruption and the only reason supermarkets might run out of things is the panic buying. Alot of people already have pretty good food stocks in their cupboards (I know I usually have about a months worth of tinned/dried foods in normally).
> I think its going to leave everybody in an economic hole though....lots of businesses and workers are going to find themselves in trouble.


I really don't feel as if I'm panicking, though I seemed to have thought about the possible consequences of this long before most and bought supplies over a period of time before most even seemed to care. Also, I don't want to be going shopping at the height of this because I'm caring for someone with cancer.

I just think if the whole world is down with this, food supplies are going to limited and our own country hasn't many weeks supply in hand, add to that the dire weather of the last winter........................

I can feed myself


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> yup, I quite like my chalky tap water! Its mostly all I drink.


 You must live here in Kent too then!!


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> I just think if the whole world is down with this, food supplies are going to limited and our own country hasn't many weeks supply in hand, add to that the dire weather of the last winter........................


Im pretty sure that the global effect will be staggered though so we wont all be at the worst stage at once (China is already coming out of it). Although its sensible to be prepared if you have vulnerable relatives at home.



Cully said:


> You must live here in Kent too then!!


How did you know!!? LOL:Woot


----------



## StripesInTheCountry

OH and I are now both working from home (OH already does but I'm usually office based) until further notice and as my OH would be vulnerable we are not quite self isolating, but massively reducing our social contact and being very careful about where we go.

I'm a bit bored already (but it's a small price to pay), but we figure now's a good time to do all the jobs we've been meaning to do since buying the house last year .. I've already started a list for my OH  I'm looking forward to more time in the garden too  

We are hoping we'll get the go ahead from the rescue centre to get the dog we've applied for, as now would be a perfect time to settle him in


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> I've got into the habit of washing the tap at the same time as my hands. Not sure if soap will clean the taps but better than nothing.


In the past I've read when we soap then rinse our hands, the germs get washed away in the soap. Same would apply to the taps. (That's a good move Cully. I'll start washing taps at the same time too though I do have hospital style handles on my taps and "elbow" them like all good surgeons in the movies)


----------



## willa

Those of you who are able to work from home are lucky !

I feel like we need more communication from the government, more regular updates. I feel like there’s a lot we aren’t being told.
Maybe I’m just being paranoid


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Last week someone said that tonic water stops or cures coronavirus (which is totally not true) and some shops got stripped bare of tonic water.


What! That's the straw which will break this camel's back. I can't drink neat gin.


----------



## havoc

willa said:


> I feel like we need more communication from the government, more regular updates. I feel like there's a lot we aren't being told.


That's delving into the depths of 'unknown unknowns' which will just drive you insane. Obssessing over the number of confirmed cases is pointless. It's like fleas on a dog - if you've seen one then there are hundreds. That's not a bad thing. It just means many people who have already caught it aren't that ill. Nobody is trying to hide the truth from you. Concentrating on the published numbers means you concentrate on the worst cases with complications and that is stupid scary.


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> Sharing misinformation can make the difference between life and death. Maybe, with so much information going around, we can all take a moment to give a source or check it? So we're not inducing panic ourselves or making this community anxious?
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-misinformation-health-advice


I second this,wise words @MollySmith !
I'm usually quite pragmatic but even so, beginning to feel rising panic.
Whoever it was said they felt as though we're in a disaster movie, that's just how I feel.The panic is so infectious !
Although I'm in a very fortunate position of not having to go out, being retired, live in a rural location and have kept next week clear of engagements due to Bobby's castration yesterday.


----------



## StripesInTheCountry

willa said:


> Those of you who are able to work from home are lucky !
> 
> I feel like we need more communication from the government, more regular updates. I feel like there's a lot we aren't being told.
> Maybe I'm just being paranoid


It's swings and roundabouts. I'm only working from home and avoiding much contact with people as my OH has Cystic Fibrosis. If he didn't, then I'd have no need to. And I'd much rather be at work and able to socialise with friends and colleagues 

Remember, for the majority of people, even if they did catch it it they are likely to show very few symptoms and feel no worse than getting a cold and would recover just as easily.

It admittedly, is worse for those in a vulnerable group - but, those people would be vulnerable to cold and ordinary flu too. And they are being given advice on the steps to take.

The problem is, that the media dont give any perspective. It's all very well saying 800 people have it and 10 people have died - but it gets lost in perspective unless you know that far more people this winter have died from ordinary flu this winter. There's just not a daily number plastered on all the TV news newspapers or social media.

I heard that you are still more likely to win the lottery, contract measles and get run over by a car, than you are to come to any harm from coronavirus.


----------



## catz4m8z

StripesInTheCountry said:


> I heard that you are still more likely to win the lottery, contract measles and get run over by a car, than you are to come to any harm from coronavirus.


wow...that would be a busy day!:Hilarious


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> wow...that would be a busy day!:Hilarious


You made me splutter into my cuppa lol.


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> Those of you who are able to work from home are lucky !
> 
> I feel like we need more communication from the government, more regular updates. I feel like there's a lot we aren't being told.
> Maybe I'm just being paranoid


I run a design agency and teach two or three days at the University here. We're stress testing all the systems next week to see if the tech holds up.

I rely on this contract to get out and see people so not seeing them will be strange. Plus there's the worry of the tech being good enough, the extra power as this will effect my energy bills, never mind that I have to keep my own business going.

In some respects, I'm fairly used to it but for many I think they'll feel the strain mentally. if anyone is going to be WFH and needs support, then here to chat.


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> I second this,wise words @MollySmith !
> I'm usually quite pragmatic but even so, beginning to feel rising panic.
> Whoever it was said they felt as though we're in a disaster movie, that's just how I feel.The panic is so infectious !
> Although I'm in a very fortunate position of not having to go out, being retired, live in a rural location and have kept next week clear of engagements due to Bobby's castration yesterday.


Thank you. I was feeling okay last week when I was away in beautiful Scotland, I came back yesterday and somewhere around a Lincolnshire service station full of people, I felt slightly worried. This morning a bit more so. Fortunately my husband is very pragmatic so we have a balance. I just feel strongly that reputable sources matter not word of mouth, so we're calm, measured and responsible. I'm being very careful what I share as I don't want anyone on Pet Forum to feel too worried or anxious because I didn't think or check (like most of Twitter!)

I'm managing my worries by only looking at one source of news (Guardian as it as sensible threads alongside other non Coronavirus news) and keeping off social media. I may drop off here if it gets too hearsay. No offence to anyone but mental health matters.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> I run a design agency and teach two or three days at the University here. We're stress testing all the systems next week to see if the tech holds up.
> 
> I rely on this contract to get out and see people so not seeing them will be strange. Plus there's the worry of the tech being good enough, the extra power as this will effect my energy bills, never mind that I have to keep my own business going.
> 
> In some respects, I'm fairly used to it but for many I think they'll feel the strain mentally. if anyone is going to be WFH and needs support, then here to chat.


Yes, we had a business continuity test on Friday where everyone in the office who could work from home had to. I frequently work from home but I think they wanted to test how the network coped with multiple remote users & it seemed to work fine. I didn't have any issues anyway. I'm going to do this more often now & maybe only go in if I have to. Tbh I can do exactly the same at home so it's not impacting my actual productivity at all. I realise that I am lucky in that I can do this & many people don't have this option.


----------



## willa

We were meant to be going to Spain first weekend of April, for my baby niece’s christening.
That’s now been cancelled as the country is about to be put on lockdown.its terrible in Spain.
Minor point as it can be rearranged for a later time, but sad as we were looking forward to it


----------



## Psygon

MollySmith said:


> I run a design agency and teach two or three days at the University here. We're stress testing all the systems next week to see if the tech holds up.
> 
> I rely on this contract to get out and see people so not seeing them will be strange. Plus there's the worry of the tech being good enough, the extra power as this will effect my energy bills, never mind that I have to keep my own business going.
> 
> In some respects, I'm fairly used to it but for many I think they'll feel the strain mentally. if anyone is going to be WFH and needs support, then here to chat.


This last bit is so very true. Over the last few days I am starting to get asked so many questions from people in my team about what we should do etc. I've jokingly said I am becoming the coronavirus expert because of the number of the things I am now being asked. I can tell that team members are getting more and more anxious and I'm doing my best to stay calm and hope that I can help resolve all the queries I never thought I'd have to resolve for people.


----------



## willa

Gloomy news. Deaths have doubled, and cases up to 1,140


----------



## Jaf

Whole of Spain's on lockdown from Monday, except for travel to work, food shopping and drs. All cafes, non-food shops, markets, schools to close. Eek. There is some provision about other important reasons to travel, I hope that means vets and dentists.

Big supermarkets are sold out of everything again, but went to the smaller shops this morning. Got everything I couldn't get Thursday - eggs, bread, milk, veg, toilet roll (no bidet needed!). Bought some cat biscuits, not their normal brand, hope they'll like it.



SusieRainbow said:


> In itself an infection risk. You really need to moisturise like mad too, or wear gloves.





Magyarmum said:


> If you've only developed sore hands and fingertips since you've been washing your hands more frequently it could be that you're allergic to the soap you're using.
> 
> I suffer from sore and cracked thumbs and index finger because I'm allergic to, of all things, the juice from onions and garlic.


I worked it out. I'm a numpty! I bleached the door handles without gloves on!! My hands are improving already.


----------



## MollySmith

Anxiety UK video on dealing with anxiety and worries due to the Coronavirus


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> I worked it out. I'm a numpty! I bleached the door handles without gloves on!! My hands are improving already.


:Bag


----------



## havoc

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm usually quite pragmatic but even so, beginning to feel rising panic


I understand why. It isn't helped by those people who seem hell bent on wallowing in bad news and worst case scenarios. I have one particular friend who I honestly thought was better than that but she's posting every bit of doom and gloom she can find on FB. Not one of those posts makes a blind bit of difference to anything in the real world other than making people anxious.


----------



## Cleo38

havoc said:


> I understand why. It isn't helped by those people who seem hell bent on wallowing in bad news and worst case scenarios. I have one particular friend who I honestly thought was better than that but she's posting every bit of doom and gloom she can find on FB. Not one of those posts makes a blind bit of difference to anything in the real world other than making people anxious.


Same here!!! And too many posts that are not based on facts yet being presented as such ….. why are people so irresponsible?!


----------



## havoc

Cleo38 said:


> ….. why are people so irresponsible?!


I really don't know why people love to spread doom and gloom but they sure do. I'm not trying to belittle the situation, I just don't understand why some need to make a drama out of a crisis.
Just heard an interview on the radio with someone who has had it - tested and confirmed case. A woman of sixty who says it was miserable, she was ill ............ and now she isn't. Wasn't hospitalised, no need. There are a LOT more of those cases than deaths but the media doesn't seem as interested.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/mike-...dqsTEsEgrtELRIMrWf-aTIr0TRRFsbkYMbUj6oaJZTsYI

*Mike Pence Announces US Will Extend Coronavirus Travel Ban To Include UK And Ireland From Monday*


----------



## Cully

Sensationalism sells newspapers!!


----------



## Dave S

Cully said:


> Sensationalism sells newspapers!!


I could not believe the headline on the front page of the Daily Mail today - elderly people who are ill withy this virus may not be treated by the doctors as they would treat people in a non-vulnerable group first.
My mother has this paper delivered and is 90 and not in the best of health - she is now very worried even though she does not usually go out and I am usually her only visitor.
Surely the newspaper could have reported it differently instead of scaring the hell out of the elderly and ill, yes I know it is sensationalism but they need to have a check on who buys that paper.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> Sensationalism sells newspapers!!


Indeed. There's been a few posts kicking around on FB today questioning whether Coronavirus has actually been all round the world for a while already, given the number of people who had those long, lingering colds/respitory infections over the last few months, complete with a dry cough they couldn't shake... But of course no-one was testing for it then, so any cases, even fatalities, would have been put down to regular winter illnesses.

Note, I'm not saying this IS the case, but it is an interesting thought. And would completely make a mockery of the current sensationalism, too.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well, my weekend homework has been to read and digest, "COVID-19 and Pregnancy". Sadly, after the news in the papers last night that a Mum and baby have covid-19, I think my ladies may well be panicking. It's not known as yet whether it was in utero transmission, or transmission during birth. I'm not sure how long it will be before we know how it's happened, which isn't going to help matters. Obviously all staff involved have now gone home to self isolate - logistically I guess that they will keep staff caring for mum and baby to be the same staff. 

I am actually more concerned about fomite and faecal transmission than respiratory. 

There has been definite panic buying down here, it's been quite horrible in the shops (had to go to the Real Shops as there were no Ocado slots for this week when I tried to do my normal shopping on Sunday). People were being intolerable yesterday, it's just horrid. 

Personal sadness is that our friend from the States was due to be coming over in April  Obviously now she isn't  Boooo. I was really looking forward to seeing her.


----------



## mrs phas

as of 9am tomorrow morning, until monday the 30th of marchi will be on official, frantically worried, mum mode
was secretly hoping either Japan or we would go into lockdown in regards to flights
but as it stands its all go for tomorrow
having got hold of some isopropyl 99.9% I made him some effective alcohol and anti bacterial hand sanitizer
he has a cotton weave mask and a teeny bottle of medical grade hand sanitizer, donated from is brother, who gets them issued at work, and (yes ok im nuts) ive told him to put a kleenex inside it, and change the kleenex regularly, wash the outer mask every night in ht soapy water

after saying all that
god i hope he enjoys this trip of a life time, he has saved for it all himself and has been a three year dream of his


----------



## HarlequinCat

Jesthar said:


> Indeed. There's been a few posts kicking around on FB today questioning whether Coronavirus has actually been all round the world for a while already, given the number of people who had those long, lingering colds/respitory infections over the last few months, complete with a dry cough they couldn't shake... But of course no-one was testing for it then, so any cases, even fatalities, would have been put down to regular winter illnesses.
> 
> Note, I'm not saying this IS the case, but it is an interesting thought. And would completely make a mockery of the current sensationalism, too.


I did wonder the same, or at least something similar. My Mum went to the zoo in September, lots of people around, and shes on tablets that suppress her immune system. She developed a horrible cough, not at all similar to the flu, and it turned into pneumonia. It didnt shift with the first lot of anti biotic so she went on a stronger dose. She didnt get better til early December and at Christmas her appetite was still low. Rather scared her and shes worried about this now


----------



## purringcats

I was speaking to an old man at the traffic lights today. He said that this toilet roll thing is getting out of control and is silly. One of his neighbours placed an online shop for 250 toilet rolls. He asked the neighbour why they needed so many, they said they just wanted to see if the supermarket would deliver that many they didn't actually need that many. He then told me his wife who has cancer was panicking and she is convinced she is going to die from coronavirus even though she is housebound. He explained to her that she would have to come into contact with someone who has it to catch it and the chances of this are very low to nil. He told me all this panic is crazy before bidding goodbye as he went one way and I went another. The conversation stuck in my head all day. 

Currently there are no cases in the town I am in but the panic people are in is beyond belief eg panic buying. If no one has it in the area you live, no one will get it. Even if someone has it in your area what are the chances of you coming into contact with them, still very low in my opinion. It is not airbourne according to the authorities, you have to come into contact with someone who has it.

I must admit the last few days I have been over thinking a little myself with what if's but have personally been trying to carry on as normal or what is normal for me.


----------



## kimthecat

Hope all goes to well tomorrow. Fingers crossed. @mrs phas

The hospital where Im getting my infusions for RA has had its first death. A man in his 60s with underlying health problems. They havea special unit there for Coronavirus patients.

I should hear the date of the treatment next week , its two infusions two weeks apart. It is supposed to be in April . 
I am a bit worried now , its is similar to chemo and will leave me very vulnerable .
I went back on low dosage steroids and feel ok on them. I'm wondering whether to wait until the summer and have them then.


----------



## Siskin

Just had a long chat with my daughter who lives and works in London. They went shopping today and found the supermarket more or less stripped bare apart from fresh stuff that doesn’t last of course. 
She told me she’s very concerned that the theatre where she works in marketing could end up not surviving this if it goes on too long. She been told to spend no more on marketing from now on as the coffers are emptying fast and if shows which have already been arranged and have to be cancelled they will be seriously out of pocket as they will have to refund tickets. Staff have been warned that there could be redundancies and that staff may have to take pay cuts or work for no pay. As she is the head of marketing it’s unlikely she would be made redundant but could find herself seriously out of pocket.
As she now lives with her partner she has rented out her flat which at least pays for the mortgage plus a bit spare. Her partners job looks to be secure at the moment and he would probably be the last to go if anything dreadful happened. If the country does end up going into lockdown it’s likely their forthcoming civil partnership will be cancelled.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Hope all goes to well tomorrow. Fingers crossed. @mrs phas
> 
> The hospital where Im getting my infusions for RA has had its first death. A man in his 60s with underlying health problems. They havea special unit there for Coronavirus patients.
> 
> I should hear the date of the treatment next week , its two infusions two weeks apart. It is supposed to be in April .
> I am a bit worried now , its is similar to chemo and will leave me very vulnerable .
> I went back on low dosage steroids and feel ok on them. I'm wondering whether to wait until the summer and have them then.


Is that iron infusions? I had no problems with mine and I don't think there is a health issue with it.


----------



## SbanR

For those of you experiencing trouble getting hold of bog rolls


----------



## Siskin

HarlequinCat said:


> I did wonder the same, or at least something similar. My Mum went to the zoo in September, lots of people around, and shes on tablets that suppress her immune system. She developed a horrible cough, not at all similar to the flu, and it turned into pneumonia. It didnt shift with the first lot of anti biotic so she went on a stronger dose. She didnt get better til early December and at Christmas her appetite was still low. Rather scared her and shes worried about this now


I was having a chat with a nurse yesterday when I went for yet another CT scan about the coronavirus. She said that the whole department came down with coughs colds and flulike symptoms and they are now wondering if they did have the virus and it wasn't just a cold/flu thing.

Trouble is the Chinese were so flipping secretive about the whole thing and only had to start admitting to corvid 19 exsistent when it became to obvious to hide any longer.


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> She told me she's very concerned that the theatre where she works in marketing could end up not surviving this if it goes on too long


Little doubt it's going to hit the entertainment industry very hard. Which theatre does she work for?


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I was having a chat with a nurse yesterday when I went for yet another CT scan about the coronavirus. She said that the whole department came down with coughs colds and flulike symptoms and they are now wondering if they did have the virus and it wasn't just a cold/flu thing.


Makes you think doesnt it? Everybody where I work had the same thing about a month ago. High temp, nasty cough and just feeling horrible...it wasnt a big deal for me but somebody I know was on antibiotics coz it turned into a chest infection. There doesnt seem to be much difference between the 2 bugs!


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> Little doubt it's going to hit the entertainment industry very hard. Which theatre does she work for?


Unicorn Theatre. It's one of the lesser known ones, it's aimed at children and teens/early 20's. It's a small theatre, holds under 500 when full, so won't be closing at the moment unless gatherings of over 100 are not permitted or the country goes into lockdown. They are funded by the arts council and charities plus whatever they make at the box office


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Unicorn Theatre. It's one of the lesser known ones, it's aimed at children and teens/early 20's. It's a small theatre, holds under 500 when full, so won't be closing at the moment unless gatherings of over 100 are not permitted or the country goes into lockdown. They are funded by the arts council and charities plus whatever they make at the box office


Oh dear. It's going to take a lot for somewhere like that to recover.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Is that iron infusions? I had no problems with mine and I don't think there is a health issue with it.


Its called Rituximab https://www.versusarthritis.org/about-arthritis/treatments/drugs/rituximab/
Its for Rheumatoid Arthritis. 
The immune system normally works to protect the body from infections by causing inflammation. But in some conditions, a group of cells in the body's immune system, called B-cells, make proteins, which attack the body's own tissues by mistake. Rituximab works by lowering the activity of these B-cells, to reduce inflammation, pain and swelling.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Its called Rituximab https://www.versusarthritis.org/about-arthritis/treatments/drugs/rituximab/
> Its for Rheumatoid Arthritis.
> The immune system normally works to protect the body from infections by causing inflammation. But in some conditions, a group of cells in the body's immune system, called B-cells, make proteins, which attack the body's own tissues by mistake. Rituximab works by lowering the activity of these B-cells, to reduce inflammation, pain and swelling.


Oh crumbs, I see what you mean about the immune system. Is there an option not to have it at the moment


----------



## MollySmith

A very sensible post for all but especially for anyone who has little ones in their life
https://www.storystorks.co.uk/post/coronavirus-can-i-take-the-kids-out-or-not


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Oh crumbs, I see what you mean about the immune system. Is there an option not to have it at the moment


Yes. It's not life saving or vital . It's about quality of life and the steroids seem to do a good job at the moment. I'll wait and see , for all I know it might be cancelled.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Been to Spain today, despite OH’s high risk. Stocked up on meds for Garfield and Scrip, their diet food, filters for the fish.
Fortunately our vet was still open, brave man said he will stay open as animals need care no matter what comes.
Pet shop was open and poor staff in masks and gloves still working despite so many cases in Andalusia and in nearby town.

Also because they need to look after animals in the shop ( no cats or dogs but the small ones).

True heroes.
On Monday total lockdown in Spain.

Their political parties like ultra right Xbox held rally just days ago , now the leaders are tested positive .

How many hands they shook? Apologising now!!!:Banghead

Many businesses in Gibraltar told staff to work from home.
Anyhow they might not be able to come.
Most of our hospital staff lives in Spain.
Morocco stopped traffic to Gibraltar.
Spain might close the frontier.

Panic, fighting in Morrisons.

At least Scrip and Garfield provided for and as our vet told us we might eat their food.
Oh well, our urinary tract will be better than ever!


----------



## chillminx

catz4m8z said:


> Try not to panic! I reckon we have at most about a month of disruption and the only reason supermarkets might run out of things is the panic buying. Alot of people already have pretty good food stocks in their cupboards (I know I usually have about a months worth of tinned/dried foods in normally).
> I think its going to leave everybody in an economic hole though....lots of businesses and workers are going to find themselves in trouble.


There was an experienced epidemiologist guy on a Ch4 programme about COVID-19 last night. He said we should expect the peak of new cases of this virus to be in about 6 months time.  And that it will probably take up to year for this initial epidemic to pass. Must say I felt gloomy at the thought of just staying home for 6 months to protect myself! (I have severe asthma, so am in the high risk group)

It would be good if things could be back to normal in a month's time but it seems unlikely, unfortunately.


----------



## MollySmith

chillminx said:


> There was an experienced epidemiologist guy on a Ch4 programme about COVID-19 last night. He said we should expect the peak of new cases of this virus to be in about 6 months time.  And that it will probably take up to year for this initial epidemic to pass. Must say I felt gloomy at the thought of just staying home for 6 months to protect myself! (I have severe asthma, so am in the high risk group)
> 
> It would be good if things could be back to normal in a month's time but it seems unlikely, unfortunately.


That's pretty much in line with the link I've posted above. It's a long haul if the government go with herd immunity. I don't necessarily agree with it as it's so untested and they've not published any modelling that satisfies many medical experts. I made the mistake of going into Twitter and looking at Adam Kucharski (Wellcome Trust Fellow and author of a book on contagion) and reading his views on herd immunity and spent most of last night worrying.


----------



## Magyarmum

The Hungarian Government is issuing these stickers to put on the front gate of the home of anyone who's been told to self isolate.

http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...oduce-and-observe-compulsory-home-quarantine/


----------



## Cleo38

As I said earlier I am really stressed about all this & usually when I feel like that social media can help but I've found some friends on FB were adding to my stress by constantly sharing so much sh*t, I've unfollowed quite a few people lately & concentrated more on the groups/people who are actually making me feel better.

One thing I have noticed tho is how many people are really trying to lift the mood & help those who are struggling. I've seen local groups setting up support groups & organizing people to help those who are vulnerable, local courier services offering free help to those people, established dog trainers offering help to those with small businesses who are affected (giving them advice regarding setting up online training, etc), others offering free training programmes & to join a community to just focus on enjoying our dogs during this worrying time), fitness gurus also offering free classes & giving advice regarding keeping fit & healthy, helping with addressing anxiety, & encouraging people to post about their fears (with a view to just letting them unburden rather than give 'advice' regarding the pandemic), people posting funny pics, etc …… people like that who pop up in my newsfeed have helped me a lot during these past few days & am sure are appreciated by many others.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I made the mistake of going into Twitter and looking at Adam Kucharski (Wellcome Trust Fellow and author of a book on contagion) and reading his views on herd immunity and spent most of last night worrying.


Is he against it? I thought it's exactly what we aim to achieve with vaccination.


----------



## havoc

I do also think we need to be careful at assuming everything we hear is true just because it's supposedly come from government. It isn't a huge shift from an official saying that *if *60% of the population get it then we'd probably have herd immunity to it being reported as govenment policy. Journalists and TV presenters aren't experts, they latch onto anything without real understanding of what was said and it becomes a game of chinese whispers.


----------



## rona

Just heard the news and they were talking about people buying up ESSENTIAL items. Now I can understand hand wash and soap becoming essential in the current climate........but loo rolls?

Come on, there's many many different ways to clean your backside that doesn't require a piece of paper!


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Just heard the news and they were talking about people buying up ESSENTIAL items. Now I can understand hand wash and soap becoming essential in the current climate........but loo rolls?


On Friday evening when I nipped into Aldi (for cheesecake which is an essential) I also picked up a pack of kitchen roll. At least I thought I did. The adjoining bay was loo rolls and because everything was messed up I actually have a 4 pack of loo rolls - didn't notice until I got home and I'm cross about it


----------



## Magyarmum

Brilliant thinking from the "stable genius". How to create a pandemic in one easy lesson:Arghh

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/15...-s-airports-homeland-security-buckles-strain/

*Trump Travel Ban Causes Chaos at U.S. Airports, as Homeland Security Buckles Under Strain*


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Just heard the news and they were talking about people buying up ESSENTIAL items. Now I can understand hand wash and soap becoming essential in the current climate........but loo rolls?
> 
> Come on, there's many many different ways to clean your backside that doesn't require a piece of paper!


An interesting article about why people feel the need to stock up with loo paper!

https://time.com/5803273/hoarding-toilet-paper/

*In the Wake of the Coronavirus, Here's Why Americans Are Hoarding Toilet Paper*


----------



## SusieRainbow

Just seen this on the news site. All over 70s will be asked to self isolate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873


----------



## catz4m8z

SusieRainbow said:


> Just seen this on the news site. All over 70s will be asked to self isolate.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873


Glad I went to visit my parents Friday. They are over 70 and my mother has some health issues (not to bad thankfully) and I didnt want to pass anything on to them. If for no other reason then Id never hear the end of it.....*mutters* you give everybody flu _one time_....

Just read that the government are buying up all the ventilators they can for patients. Hopefully they have also considered that you need specialized training to use a ventilator and there currently arent enough staff who can do that.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

SusieRainbow said:


> Just seen this on the news site. All over 70s will be asked to self isolate.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873


that is going to a problem for so many people for many different reasons ! My sister and I are both over 70, we are following all the guidelines re washing hands etc BUT we also provide after school child care for my niece (she has a 9 year old daughter) who has to work full time. If we have to self-isolate it's going to make it very difficult for her to continue working; I suspect that there are many, many others in the same position.


----------



## Bisbow

I read once, a long time ago that if a species over populates Mother Nature will cull that species by causing an illness to regulate the numbers
Anyone think that is what is happening to us
Must admit it made me think because there are so many humans now we are in danger of over population


----------



## HarlequinCat

Theres a strange conspiracy theory going around that it was all started by the Russians .
With them closing all their borders and only having a few cases, whereas the rest of the world is getting hit hard.
Then there was that Novichok a little while back.

Why they would choose to start it off in China though, I dont think the theorists have thought about


----------



## Magyarmum

Well I never! ......................

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...ts-on-coronavirus-pandemic-1655688-2020-03-15

*Islamic State asks terrorists to avoid travel to coronavirus-affected countries, wash hands*
*The Islamic State has also asked its jihadists to wash hands at all times "even if they wake up in the middle of the night", said a report.*


----------



## chillminx

SusieRainbow said:


> Just seen this on the news site. All over 70s will be asked to self isolate.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873


For a period of up to 4 months!! 

From The Independent :

" Matt Hancock, the health secretary, said on Sunday morning that the elderly could be quarantined for a period of up to four months in the coming weeks as a precautionary measure to protect lives."


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> The Hungarian Government is issuing these stickers to put on the front gate of the home of anyone who's been told to self isolate.
> 
> http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...oduce-and-observe-compulsory-home-quarantine/


Huh, how long before they start painting a big X on our doors?


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> I do also think we need to be careful at assuming everything we hear is true just because it's supposedly come from government. It isn't a huge shift from an official saying that *if *60% of the population get it then we'd probably have herd immunity to it being reported as govenment policy. Journalists and TV presenters aren't experts, they latch onto anything without real understanding of what was said and it becomes a game of chinese whispers.


I think that's the whole point of using 111 NHS. It's one place we should be able to rely on correct info.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> Huh, how long before they start painting a big X on our doors?


You don't approve of it then?


----------



## mrs phas

If you can't get hold of hand sanitizer or paracetamol, and, feel a bit ill, this ancient roman remedy might help

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articl...Tu5R1uvSCkJlu_b38cMLU7GNHhmiJ7tmjXxUK2OOLfwhY

:Shamefullyembarrased:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> I think that's the whole point of using 111 NHS.


Yeah, good luck with that. My type 1 diabetic DIL tried to phone last week as work wanted her to see whether she should work from home. She sat waiting on the line for over 20 minutes and then gave up. She was then told by work she had to get the info from her GP so she phoned the surgery and got short shrift there.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Smolmaus said:


> Do yous not just drink in eachothers houses like actual Irish people lol
> 
> Drink is cheap in Birmingham from what I remember, that explains it





Bisbow said:


> I read once, a long time ago that if a species over populates Mother Nature will cull that species by causing an illness to regulate the numbers
> Anyone think that is what is happening to us
> Must admit it made me think because there are so many humans now we are in danger of over population


I'm in my 40's and think part of the first generation where there hasnt been a significant reduction in population either because of no major wars or disease because we've cured them!

HIV/AIDs appeared and we slowed it down, Bird & Swine flu were short lived, even Ebola lived a short life.

Maybe nature is fighting back.


----------



## HarlequinCat

mrs phas said:


> If you can't get hold of hand sanitizer or paracetamol, and, feel a bit ill, this ancient roman remedy might help
> 
> https://www.atlasobscura.com/articl...Tu5R1uvSCkJlu_b38cMLU7GNHhmiJ7tmjXxUK2OOLfwhY
> 
> :Shamefullyembarrased:Hilarious


Romans were an odd bunch


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> Yeah, good luck with that. My type 1 diabetic DIL tried to phone last week as work wanted her to see whether she should work from home. She sat waiting on the line for over 20 minutes and then gave up. She was then told by work she had to get the info from her GP so she phoned the surgery and got short shrift there.


Sorry, I meant the 111.NHS online. I've heard of long waits trying to ring them too. Don't hear anything about fast responses. Would be reassuring if we did!!


----------



## catz4m8z

HarlequinCat said:


> Romans were an odd bunch


well, it would certainly ward me off!:Hilarious


----------



## rona

MissKittyKat said:


> I'm in my 40's and think part of the first generation where there hasnt been a significant reduction in population either because of no major wars or disease because we've cured them!
> 
> *HIV/AIDs appeared and we slowed it down*, Bird & Swine flu were short lived, even Ebola lived a short life.
> 
> Maybe nature is fighting back.


This bit of news seems to have been lost in the Corvid 19 panic

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51804454
Second patient cured of HIV


----------



## chillminx

MissKittyKat said:


> I'm in my 40's and think part of the first generation where there hasnt been a significant reduction in population either because of no major wars or disease because we've cured them!
> HIV/AIDs appeared and we slowed it down, Bird & Swine flu were short lived, even Ebola lived a short life.
> Maybe nature is fighting back.


Yes, thank goodness we're not going through what my grandparents went through in the 1918 influenza virus pandemic. That was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. It's estimated that about 500 million people in the world became infected with it. The number of deaths was estimated to be about 50 million worldwide.

With no vaccine to protect against influenza and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections, attempts to control the spread were limited to isolation, quarantine, good personal hygiene, use of disinfectants, and limitation of public gatherings.

Luckily we have antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections.


----------



## willa

The DHSC is late publishing the updates figures. Ofcourse this has set of paranoia and some silly comments on social media. Not helping the general panicking of the public this


----------



## Siskin

My niece posted this on fb. Made I laugh


Tescos: good, occasionally busy later. 
Sainsburys: moderate to good, sale on Corn Flakes.
Asda: slight to moderate, heavy crowds by evening. 
Marks and Spencers and Co-Op: fair. Expect toilet rolls eventually
Waitrose: fair to moderate, spillage in aisle 7. 
Lidl: rough at first, moderate later.

And that's the end of the Shopping Forecast.


----------



## Elles

It’s really weird. Who are the “public”?

I don’t know anyone who is panic buying, stocking up on toilet rolls, or doing anything much different from what they normally do. A bit more hand washing and staying away from crowds, but not much more. Apart from my son who is stuck in Spain.

I find it quite odd that on the one hand people are stockpiling toilet rolls and pasta and panicking, but on the other going to Cheltenham. Beats me.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> My niece posted this on fb. Made I laugh
> 
> Tescos: good, occasionally busy later.
> Sainsburys: moderate to good, sale on Corn Flakes.
> Asda: slight to moderate, heavy crowds by evening.
> Marks and Spencers and Co-Op: fair. Expect toilet rolls eventually
> Waitrose: fair to moderate, spillage in aisle 7.
> Lidl: rough at first, moderate later.
> 
> And that's the end of the Shopping Forecast.


Clever


----------



## havoc

Been to my local garden centre today. Owner pointed out that two of his employees are over 70 as are the majority of his customers. He reckons it will be the end of his business.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Been to my local garden centre today. Owner pointed out that two of his employees are over 70 as are the majority of his customers. He reckons it will be the end of his business.


Maybe he should open up to only those over 70 who have been self isolating for more than two weeks


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> It's really weird. Who are the "public"?
> 
> I don't know anyone who is panic buying, stocking up on toilet rolls, or doing anything much different from what they normally do. A bit more hand washing and staying away from crowds, but not much more. Apart from my son who is stuck in Spain.
> 
> I find it quite odd that on the one hand people are stockpiling toilet rolls and pasta and panicking, but on the other going to Cheltenham. Beats me.


I don't know anyone who is stockpiling either, neither does my OH...

Although they obviously they are in my town with queues to get in supermarkets, no toilet rolls etc. According to the local paper people were queuing to get in Aldis today, picking up toilet roll, going straight to the till then coming back in the shop to continue shopping! This was when the shop just opened. Its absolute madness.


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> I don't know anyone who is stockpiling either, neither does my OH...
> 
> Although they obviously they are in my town with queues to get in supermarkets, no toilet rolls etc. According to the local paper people were queuing to get in Aldis today, picking up toilet roll, going straight to the till then coming back in the shop to continue shopping! This was when the shop just opened. Its absolute madness.


Well, they are spreading corvid 19 really well  Odd that the ones who are panicking are putting themselves even more at risk


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Well, they are spreading corvid 19 really well  Odd that the ones who are panicking are putting themselves even more at risk


I know it's silly isn't it.. They are running round over crowded supermarkets, willing to queue to get the goods, all trolleys taken just like at Christmas shopping nightmare. There is no logic to it at all. 
We did pop to Morrisons yesterday for dog food, didn't realise I was running so low as in a serving and needed 3. Only went down one aisle and it was wall to wall of trolleys. Just stupid


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Maybe he should open up to only those over 70 who have been self isolating for more than two weeks


Two weeks he might survive but I thought we were talking about months.


----------



## Jaf

Lockdown in Spain is very odd. Shops allowed to open are food, newspapers, hairdressers, tobacconists and dry cleaners. Don’t know yet about bottled gas and firewood. Only 1 person in a car. Not permitted to walk anywhere unless walking 1 dog.

I’m getting more and more twitchy. It’s a week since I was in a big crowd so I think in another week I should know if I have the virus or not. I’m normally a hermit but having been forced into it feels weirdly annoying, even though I completely agree with it.


----------



## ChaosCat

Jaf said:


> Lockdown in Spain is very odd. Shops allowed to open are food, newspapers, hairdressers, tobacconists and dry cleaners. Don't know yet about bottled gas and firewood. Only 1 person in a car. Not permitted to walk anywhere unless walking 1 dog.
> 
> I'm getting more and more twitchy. It's a week since I was in a big crowd so I think in another week I should know if I have the virus or not. I'm normally a hermit but having been forced into it feels weirdly annoying, even though I completely agree with it.


Hairdressers? Are they of equal importance as food stores? :Wideyed

Or are they on a level with newspapers as sources of information?


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Two weeks he might survive but I thought we were talking about months.


But if all of his clientele are over 70 and they are safe from corvid 19 because none of them have had contact for 2 weeks, then they would all be safe to shop in his garden centre to their heart content.
Sounds like an opportunity to me 

This is said partly tongue in cheek


----------



## Jaf

ChaosCat said:


> Hairdressers? Are they of equal importance as food stores? :Wideyed
> 
> Or are they on a level with newspapers as sources of information?


I know right? Someone has suggested it's for hygiene as some people can't wash their own hair...but how would they get there?! Another idea is maybe to use hair salon as virus testing station.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> Two weeks he might survive but I thought we were talking about months.


yup, its all those non essential businesses that are really going to struggle.



Jaf said:


> Lockdown in Spain is very odd. Shops allowed to open are food, newspapers, hairdressers, tobacconists and dry cleaners. Don't know yet about bottled gas and firewood. Only 1 person in a car. Not permitted to walk anywhere unless walking 1 dog.


Dry cleaners? I can understand the rest (well, except hairdressers) but dry cleaning? Cant people just not wear dry clean only clothes for the duration?


----------



## Dave S

Working from home today...…………


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Dry cleaners?


A politician's relative probably owns a chain of dry cleaners.


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=2ahUKEwj88vjt_JzoAhX88eAKHYS3A-oQFjAHegQIAhAB&url=http://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-covid-19-your-questions-answered-by-virus-experts-133617&usg=AOvVaw3Dw1HddqfD4o3uV9vPFQzW

Questions and answers. From experts ( though we don't need them.., but )


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Lurcherlad

Hopefully, all those who can work from home will, giving those who have to travel etc. room to spread out and avoid passing the virus around.

I noticed that Tesco had changed their Sunday hours for the time being to 0500 - 2200, if I read the sign correctly.

There were also a noticeably large number of signs about treating staff with respect and warning about abusive behaviours from customers, etc. 

Sad they are necessary but no surprise really


----------



## catz4m8z

Must really suck to work in a supermarket right now...:Nailbiting


----------



## Siskin




----------



## havoc

Out of interest, how will this over 70s thing worked in a household of mixed ages? What about where granny lives with children and grandchildren or a couple where one is 65 and still working and the other 71.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Out of interest, how will this over 70s thing worked in a household of mixed ages? What about where granny lives with children and grandchildren or a couple where one is 65 and still working and the other 71.


That's us. My husband is older then me and I work. I can probably work from home but no guarantee. I suppose I have to self isolate but I have Hughes syndrome which affects my immune system so it's debatable who should go out. Husband reckons he is less at risk as by some miracle he never caught my pneumonia...


----------



## havoc

Meanwhile, my daughter is working with a colleague who is in a house share with someone who tested +ve. NHS 111 advice is that it’s business as usual for her.


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> It's really weird. Who are the "public"?
> 
> I don't know anyone who is panic buying, stocking up on toilet rolls, or doing anything much different from what they normally do. A bit more hand washing and staying away from crowds, but not much more. Apart from my son who is stuck in Spain.
> 
> I find it quite odd that on the one hand people are stockpiling toilet rolls and pasta and panicking, but on the other going to Cheltenham. Beats me.


I don't either. Nobody is fessing up to panic buying anywhere yet someone one is! The most crowded place I saw was the doors of Sainsbury's yesterday and my friend who sells The Big Issue was battling dilemmas over notes because his card reader packed up. Seriously more than a large gathering which is why I didn't go in.


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> I know it's silly isn't it.. They are running round over crowded supermarkets, willing to queue to get the goods, all trolleys taken just like at Christmas shopping nightmare. There is no logic to it at all.
> We did pop to Morrisons yesterday for dog food, didn't realise I was running so low as in a serving and needed 3. Only went down one aisle and it was wall to wall of trolleys. Just stupid


I think I'd be tempted to set off a fire alarm...!


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I think I'd be tempted to set off a fire alarm...!


That would be very naughty


----------



## Lurcherlad

Just start wiping your brow with a tissue and cough a lot! 

That should clear the place


----------



## Billbailey

I'm so glad I don't work in retail any more. Must be a complete nightmare right now. And I bet most of them have only just recovered from Christmas and the January sales.


----------



## havoc

Billbailey said:


> I'm so glad I don't work in retail any more


Staff are looking very tired. Prime candidates to go down with something.


----------



## Billbailey

They sure are. I was in a small supermarket the other day, local to me, and the poor lad on the till looked really tired. I asked how he was and he thanked me for noticing, bless him.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> That would be very naughty


but funny as hell


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> Just start wiping your brow with a tissue and cough a lot!
> 
> That should clear the place


You're more likely to be carted away in a van by hazmat suits , being a bio hazard and all that


----------



## cheekyscrip

cheekyscrip said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=2ahUKEwj88vjt_JzoAhX88eAKHYS3A-oQFjAHegQIAhAB&url=http://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-covid-19-your-questions-answered-by-virus-experts-133617&usg=AOvVaw3Dw1HddqfD4o3uV9vPFQzW





HarlequinCat said:


> You're more likely to be carted away in a van by hazmat suits , being a bio hazard and all that


Or told to go and self - isolated yourself!!


----------



## Cully

I was looking for some liquid soap which I normally buy and suddenly realised a crowd of people were flocking around me. I was on my scooter so was stuck there. I started to feel a bit panicky as they all loomed over me to see what I'd picked up. It was quite scary, like something out of a zombie movie.


----------



## Jaf

The first case has been reported in my nearest town. A young man who was out of town when he got a cough. He came home and then developed a temperature and tried to report himself but the hospital wouldn’t test him. Took a few phone calls and they eventually sent someone to his home. He’s young and in good health so should recover, hopefully.

There’s been a big problem with people who work in cities, leaving to go to their family homes and bringing the virus with them. No-one wants to be trapped but by doing so they’ve doomed thousands of people.

The police arrested a cyclist at the seaside who refused to go home! They have also been stopping dog walkers and ordering them to be quick walks.

Hairdressers have now been closed!


----------



## Magyarmum

All schools have been closed in Hungary and most if not all trains arriving from, or departing to, neighbouring countries have been cancelled. (Hungary is landlocked and bounded by seven countries).


----------



## Lurcherlad

cheekyscrip said:


> Or told to go and self - isolated yourself!!


It was a joke


----------



## Dave S

ATTENTION

A new virus which is spreading a hundred times quicker than Coronavirus has been discovered, the imasthickasshit virus affects people's ability to shop normally, people with the imasthickasshit virus will fill their trolleys with tons of Toilet roll, pasta, and rice. Doctors think that Coronavirus and imthickasshit virus could be connected, but are worried by the speed imasthickasshit virus is spreading, if you see anyone in a supermarket filling their trolleys with... toilet roll pasta rice,and baby milk baby wipes eggs and nappies, keep well clear.
Symptoms of the imasthickasshit virus can include selfishness, intolerance, ignorance and stockpiling which can induce occasional bursts of random acts of fighting over some toilet paper and lacking compassion for anybody other than themselves.

STAY SAFE MY FRIENDS.


----------



## SusieRainbow

An excellent article on protecting your mental health during the outbreak.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51873799


----------



## Magyarmum

I live about 20 miles from the Slovakian border and because groceries are generally cheaper in Hungary we get a lot of Slovaks coming either to our local town or the city to do their shopping.

I was reading in our County online newspaper that they're now manning the Hungarian/Slovak border and Hungarian registered cars wishing to enter Slovakia are being turned away and Slovakian drivers and passengers are let through but have to go into 2 weeks of self isolation! It didn't say though whether it works the other way round!


----------



## catz4m8z

TBH Ive realiesed that if I had to self isolate it really wouldnt be any different from me having a weeks annual leave from work! Im such a crusty old hermit anyways!:Hilarious

Cant imagine what the financial cost of this will be though. People losing their jobs, etc. I mean alot of bars and clubs struggle if they have a bad week and we could be talking about a bad few months! Thats alot of people put out of business.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> Huh, how long before they start painting a big X on our doors?


I jokingly said to my husband they will put red crosses on


catz4m8z said:


> TBH Ive realiesed that if I had to self isolate it really wouldnt be any different from me having a weeks annual leave from work! Im such a crusty old hermit anyways!:Hilarious
> 
> Cant imagine what the financial cost of this will be though. People losing their jobs, etc. I mean alot of bars and clubs struggle if they have a bad week and we could be talking about a bad few months! Thats alot of people put out of business.


 Locally businesses have struggled with the floods, normally they would manage to get back to normal with the help of a nice dry pleasant spring/summer days but know with this virus many of them will go under, also without the income generated by the elderly population they wont survive


----------



## Dave S

Really do not know what is wrong with people, just been to Tesco to get some essentials and there were no toilet rolls, flour - self raising, plain or bread, no tea bags, no 12 packs of tinned dog food - Butchers or Pedigree, although I must admit_ bought the last 2 _as we needed them.
Pasta isle was short and it was like a Saturday morning inside.

I just hope that those people who are now buying in bulk realise the implications of causing a false shortage and stop being so silly.

I also blame the supermarkets themselves as they could have rationed people at the start and therefore making sure everyone is able to buy without having to panic buy.


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Huh, how long before they start painting a big X on our doors?


and make us ring bells shouting unclean


Dave S said:


> ATTENTION
> 
> A new virus which is spreading a hundred times quicker than Coronavirus has been discovered, the imasthickasshit virus affects people's ability to shop normally, people with the imasthickasshit virus will fill their trolleys with tons of Toilet roll, pasta, and rice. Doctors think that Coronavirus and imthickasshit virus could be connected, but are worried by the speed imasthickasshit virus is spreading, if you see anyone in a supermarket filling their trolleys with... toilet roll pasta rice,and baby milk baby wipes eggs and nappies, keep well clear.
> Symptoms of the imasthickasshit virus can include selfishness, intolerance, ignorance and stockpiling which can induce occasional bursts of random acts of fighting over some toilet paper and lacking compassion for anybody other than themselves.
> 
> STAY SAFE MY FRIENDS.


Sounds as bad as the Crazyitis virus that's doing the rounds. 

Took Libby the vets this morning for her booster and health check. Decided to get it done as OHs sister has a little puppy and we would like them to meet soon. So glad the vets and staff are ok so far. It would have been good if they had put a hand sanitiser out but perhaps they couldnt get hold of an or run out.

DD says they arent closing her school yet but they are making preparations in case they do though Im dont know what they are.


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> Really do not know what is wrong with people, just been to Tesco to get some essentials and there were no toilet rolls, flour - self raising, plain or bread, no tea bags, no 12 packs of tinned dog food - Butchers or Pedigree, although I must admit_ bought the last 2 _as we needed them.
> Pasta isle was short and it was like a Saturday morning inside.
> 
> I just hope that those people who are now buying in bulk realise the implications of causing a false shortage and stop being so silly.
> 
> I also blame the supermarkets themselves as they could have rationed people at the start and therefore making sure everyone is able to buy without having to panic buy.


[email protected] have butchers on special at moment
2x18cans for£18
Or
2x 24 150g trays for £20
They also have tinned chappie in the offers


----------



## Maurey

Urgh. I have a shitty immune system atm (still recovering from a bad sinus infection that dropped me to my arse the end of last year, because I keep getting minor headcolds and other unpleasantness), and my city is up to 41 confirmed infections. We had a scare at the uni I work at with 2 students, but they tested negative. Starting today (just 20 min ago, actually), there's been a total ban on any group-based activities outside of lectures for students or staff (for lectures, they always air out the classrooms between lectures, but no cancellations yet, though the government has, as of yesterday, advised distance uni learning).

I'm still about the head out to the uni for a couple hours to give my JC presentation on DE in scRNA, as according to my supervisor, it's a work meeting, and not a student meeting outside lectures, nevermind that we have students in the club :'D But realistically, might be the last meeting till after they relax the new rule, since it was so last-minute, and most of us are already commuting. I have a feeling we might be entering lockdown soon, though.

Also, there was a woman who, in all her infinite wisdom escaped from quarantine before she was caught by the police. Can't imagine she didn't infect more people along the way :/


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Took Libby the vets this morning for her booster and health check. Decided to get it done as OHs sister has a little puppy and we would like them to meet soon. So glad the vets and staff are ok so far. It would have been good if they had put a hand sanitiser out but perhaps they couldnt get hold of an or run out


The vets are carrying on more or less as usual partly out of animal welfare reasons, and partly because the RCVS have heavily implied they may not support any vets who get a complaint raised against them because of coronavirus precautions (a house in self-isolation, for example, would not be considered a valid reason to refuse a home visit). I was talking with a vet friend of mine about it yesterday.


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> the RCVS have heavily implied they may not support any vets who get a complaint raised against them because of coronavirus precautions (a house in self-isolation, for example, would not be considered a valid reason to refuse a home visit). I was talking with a vet friend of mine about it yesterday.


self isolation means* no-one* in and *no one* out

i get that animals need treatment when they need treatment
but
why do vets have to put their health in danger?
maybe their life
or the next owners
or the owners granny
or child etc
let alone their own family
people shold be told to get family or friends 
who are not self isolating
to take the animal to the vet for them
*THAT'S* what the RCVS should be saying
and everyone, unless they live in the outer reaches of the arctic circle will have someone they can ask, even if theyve never even spoken to them before

I darn well know if I was self isolating, and due to auto immune problems, both mine and matts, we probably will be, under these government diktats, I wouldnt want to put anyone elses health/life in danger, I would never be able to forgive myself if anyone died because I insisted on a home visit


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> The vets are carrying on more or less as usual partly out of animal welfare reasons, and partly because the RCVS have heavily implied they may not support any vets who get a complaint raised against them because of coronavirus precautions (a house in self-isolation, for example, would not be considered a valid reason to refuse a home visit). I was talking with a vet friend of mine about it yesterday.


My vets are taking usual precautions & have advised that they can make special arrangements for people who cannot get their pets to the surgery, even offering with assistance with shopping, etc. They are always fantastic & always go out of their way to help the local community anyway


----------



## purringcats

*Hand Sanitiser*​


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> self isolation means* no-one* in and *no one* out


Not currently it doesnt

A person in a home self isolates, stays 2 metres from other family members if possible does not sleep in the same room as the person especially bed sharing. Keep up hand washing whilst everyone else keeps going about their daily business.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> I also blame the supermarkets themselves as they could have rationed people at the start and therefore making sure everyone is able to buy without having to panic buy.


and me....they enough warning with what was happening in other countries so the warning signs were there.

As soon as they noticed people starting to panic, they should have put a limit how many of an item you could buy.


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> people shold be told to get family or friends
> who are not self isolating
> to take the animal to the vet for them
> *THAT'S* what the RCVS should be saying
> and everyone, unless they live in the outer reaches of the arctic circle will have someone they can ask, even if theyve never even spoken to them before


Yes, it is. But they're not - well, not yet. Never mind the home visits might act as a transmission point both ways...



Cleo38 said:


> My vets are taking usual precautions & have advised that they can make special arrangements for people who cannot get their pets to the surgery, even offering with assistance with shopping, etc. They are always fantastic & always go out of their way to help the local community anyway


I think most are going that route, yes. Some are asking for only one person with an animal, saying they can wait in their cars if they prefer and be phoned when the vet is ready etc. and I think they'd be supported on those points. It's the home visits are a sticking point.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Not currently it doesnt
> 
> A person in a home self isolates, stays 2 metres from other family members if possible does not sleep in the same room as the person especially bed sharing. Keep up hand washing whilst everyone else keeps going about their daily business.


It will do though, according to government we are merely weeks, if not days, from one member, all members, even if no symptoms


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> It will do though, according to government we are merely weeks, if not days, from one member, all members, even if no symptoms


Why start implementing or worrying now. 
We can only go on advice. 
If people don't follow the government's advice, and follow what they think they should do, how often will people be self isolating for nothing but a common cold. A headache, a cough. None that are related to Covid-19.

We may all come down with it, we may all carry it, but if we must just follow the advise given.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Why start implementing or worrying now.
> We can only go on advice.
> If people don't follow the government's advice, and follow what they think they should do, how often will people be self isolating for nothing but a common cold. A headache, a cough. None that are related to Covid-19.
> 
> We may all come down with it, we may all carry it, but if we must just follow the advise given.


Please don't imply that I'm trying to scaremonger
I am keeping up with the news, *and* advice, from the government as it is released, which, at the moment, seems to be changing hourly


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Please don't imply that I'm trying to scaremonger
> I am keeping up with the news, *and* advice, from the government as it is released, which, at the moment, seems to be changing hourly


The advise I stated has been advise for over a week.

Am sorry to back track but it was the advise when you was annoyed at your own sons girlfriend for not self isolating when she didn't need to, and you also advised your son to self isolate for 2 weeks instead of the 1 week which it is advised.

It's not changing hourly if you are looking at the government's advise. It may change today due to a cobra meeting.

What may happen is just that, and this has caused the panic buying of everything. Causing such worry for many.


----------



## shadowmare

Whilst people are spending their cash on a years supply of toilet paper and pasta, restaurants and bars have already started laying off staff.


----------



## HarlequinCat

shadowmare said:


> Whilst people are spending their cash on a years supply of toilet paper and pasta, restaurants and bars have already started laying off staff.


Dont think the two are related though. Most people aren't socialising at pubs etc because of the proximity to other people, not because they have no money to spend.

This virus is going to be hard on so many businesses. Me and my partner have thought of the possibility this might be the final straw for the high street


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Please don't imply that I'm trying to scaremonger
> I am keeping up with the news, *and* advice, from the government as it is released, which, at the moment, seems to be changing hourly


I've stepped away from the news as it changes so much.



lullabydream said:


> The advise I stated has been advise for over a week.
> 
> Am sorry to back track but it was the advise when you was annoyed at your own sons girlfriend for not self isolating when she didn't need to, and you also advised your son to self isolate for 2 weeks instead of the 1 week which it is advised.
> 
> It's not changing hourly if you are looking at the government's advise. It may change today due to a cobra meeting.
> 
> What may happen is just that, and this has caused the panic buying of everything. Causing such worry for many.


Even the farm shop this morning looked a bit bare, and you've gotta to be well paid to panic buy there! It's hard not get caught up which is one of many reasons I try to avoid supermarkets- I end up spending more than I do in independents.

The whole self isolation thing really upset me yesterday, as I was in a state about how to share a home with my husband - we are sitting in our living room right now, the largest room in our home and not two metres apart. Having been out for a few small things and a prescription, the city is as it normally is. In some ways reassuring as it is overwhelming sitting on social media and in other ways a bit worrying.

Thing that suddenly occurred to me and OH is that we don't remember being scared by SARS which was 37m deaths. I think social media plays a huge part in feelings about the Coronavirus so I'm scaling right back.


----------



## shadowmare

HarlequinCat said:


> Dont think the two are related though. Most people aren't socialising at pubs etc because of the proximity to other people, not because they have no money to spend.
> 
> This virus is going to be hard on so many businesses. Me and my partner have thought of the possibility this might be the final straw for the high street


I didn't suggest a link there. I just pointed out that while people are going into crowded shops and spending their money in there, the numbers of guests and spending in restaurants has fallen. Staff are getting sacked without any notice at the moment and it will be increasingly difficult to get new jobs as more and more places struggle.


----------



## MollySmith

HarlequinCat said:


> Dont think the two are related though. Most people aren't socialising at pubs etc because of the proximity to other people, not because they have no money to spend.
> 
> This virus is going to be hard on so many businesses. Me and my partner have thought of the possibility this might be the final straw for the high street


It might not be if we can still use delivery services or find ways to collect food. Buy gift vouchers to use later.

I've also seen that I'm on trend - whodda thought that buying independent and holidays in the UK would be the new thing...?!! Lots of people have sadly had to holiday in the UK as travel is stopped, and depending on what, how or where we're locked down, that maybe helpful. I hope so, so many small shops are trying to find ways to overcome this. One shops in Edinburgh is creating free packs for the vulnerable and it's gone viral. That's the bonus of your own business - you can make decisions like that. I hope it works out and that as a forum and as such as community, we seek out indies and use them.


----------



## Cleo38

My BIL, niece & her fiancé all work in the aviation industry. Unfortunately they've been told that they have to take 8 weeks unpaid leave, & their careers are looking very uncertain as the industry has taken a massive hit. Am gutted for them as it's such worrying times. My niece has cancelled her wedding for later in the year, she's been so practical about it all & whilst she's disappointed she knows that it is one day & that it will be re-arranged when things are looking more certain but so many businesses are going to be affected by this & it will hit all of us. 

Was getting stressed again about it all but we've all been keeping our spirits up tho & trying not to get to downcast. The weather has brightened up which always helps & I've had a lovely walk in the forest with the dogs.


----------



## havoc

I’ve contacted my tenants and told them to keep me informed if things get difficult. Told them we’ll work something out. They’re a lovely couple and I don’t want them to worry about losing the roof over their head. Their business is just the sort which will be hit. I can afford to wait this storm out and recoup unpaid rent over time but many can’t.


----------



## Billbailey

I've logged out of Twitter today and won't be logging back in until all this nonsense is over.


----------



## purringcats

This makes sense. The freedom of movement in the EU and the open borders have no doubt contributed to the virus spreading and rapidly as it has. It is better to contain everyone in the countries they are in and see if the virus will peak and then the infection rate hopefully drops. Boris Johnson to make a statement later.


----------



## DogLover1981

You know, I thought coronavirus was being overblown but not anymore. I think it's crazy that people where debating other political issues months ago when coronavirus was and is a far more serious issue. It was known about back in December and January but few were paying attention. I read about it at the time but I didn't think much of it. People could've prepared for it sooner and the situation in Italy was so preventable.


----------



## Magyarmum

purringcats said:


> View attachment 433491
> 
> View attachment 433490
> 
> This makes sense. The freedom of movement in the EU and the open borders have no doubt contributed to the virus spreading and rapidly as it has. It is better to contain everyone in the countries they are in and see if the virus will peak and then the infection rate hopefully drops. Boris Johnson to make a statement later.


She's a bit late isn't she? It's already been done in Hungary and most of the neighbouring countries. Poland Slovakia and Hungary are turning away cars and passengers who aren't nationals or residents of those countries .


----------



## purringcats

My GP surgery has closed. You can only speak to a receptionist at the door behind a barrier. The GP is doing telephone consultations only.


----------



## purringcats

Magyarmum said:


> She's a bit late isn't she? It's already been done in Hungary and most of the neighbouring countries. Poland Slovakia and Hungary are turning away cars and passengers who aren't nationals or residents of those countries .


I agree with you that the EU President has been slow at reacting. Let's see what Boris Johnson does as apparently the shut down does not include the UK.


----------



## Magyarmum

The Zimbabwean Defence Minister said in a speech that the Coronavirus was unleashed by God to punish President Trump and other western countries for imposing sanctions on Zimbabwe

So now you know!


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> My GP surgery has closed. You can only speak to a receptionist at the door behind a barrier. The GP is doing telephone consultations only.


Wish our GP surgery was doing similar.

Just literally received a phone call from the doctors for my OH. He's been waiting 4 weeks for the appointment. It's been cancelled. He could discuss his issue more of less with a GP over the phone. However it's cancelled completely. Only if he feels it is urgent he needs to phone on Monday and try and get an appointment. Try obviously because all these people with their appointments cancelled this week no doubt will all be trying to get an appointment too.


----------



## Magyarmum

purringcats said:


> I agree with you that the EU President has been slow at reacting. Let's see what Boris Johnson does as apparently the shut down does not include the UK.


I'll think you'll find the decision to shut the borders has been done without consulting her.

To be honest, she seems a bit useless

https://lostineu.eu/europa-ist-das-...rope+Update&utm_content=Lost+in+EUrope+Update

*Europe is the new epicenter*


----------



## purringcats

lullabydream said:


> Wish our GP surgery was doing similar.
> 
> Just literally received a phone call from the doctors for my OH. He's been waiting 4 weeks for the appointment. It's been cancelled. He could discuss his issue more of less with a GP over the phone. However it's cancelled completely. Only if he feels it is urgent he needs to phone on Monday and try and get an appointment. Try obviously because all these people with their appointments cancelled this week no doubt will all be trying to get an appointment too.


I had a pain clinic appointment cancelled twice now and phoned the pain clinic when I got the second cancellation letter today and they told me my referral wasn't clearing triage. So went to GP surgery and there was a notice up on a barrier saying wait for the receptionist to come and see you. The receptionist told me the GP will phone me back before 7pm. My GP surgery is literally 1 minute away from my house.


----------



## purringcats

The PM has introduced some advisory measures like urging people to work from home and avoid pubs, clubs and theatres and avoiding unnecessary contact with other people. Whole households should isolate themselves if one person has symptoms. The PM said if you go for a walk if you have isolated yourself to keep your distance from people. People who are vulnerable or have serious health conditions from this weekend should shield themselves for 12 weeks from social contact. No school closures yet. The PM will be giving daily updates.

Edited
If you live by yourself isolate yourself for 7 days if you have symptoms of the virus.

If you life in a 2 person or more household isolate yourself and others in your household should do the same at the same time for 14 days.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. I went to the shops today (running out of cat food). It was eerily quiet with all cafes closed, no one walking around and the kids’ playground taped off. There is a security guard in supermarket now! All staff wearing masks as were most of the customers. Odd selection of goods in supermarket- no meat, eggs, potatoes but plenty of salad, toilet rolls and hand soap. No shower gel as hand soap has taken over the shelf!

The council have apparently been hosing down the streets and a van going round telling people to go home.

GPS are not seeing people. Some sort of APP is being developed so that repeat prescriptions can be ordered. I need blood test but no idea how/ if to arrange it. Hospitals are cancelling appointments but mine for April hasn’t been cancelled yet.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> The PM has introduced some advisory measures like urging people to work from home and avoid pubs, clubs and theatres and avoiding unnecessary contact with other people. Whole households should isolate themselves if one person has symptoms. The PM said if you go for a walk if you have isolated yourself to keep your distance from people. People who are vulnerable or have serious health conditions from this weekend should shield themselves for 12 weeks from social contact. No school closures yet. The PM will be giving daily updates.


*Monday 16th UK Government briefing *

I think it's important we post links so there is no room for personal misinterpretation so here is The Guardian link with the video for the full Press Briefing today. Perhaps you might do that in future for clarity?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...suggests-politics-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


----------



## purringcats

MollySmith said:


> *Monday 16th UK Government briefing *
> 
> I think it's important we post links so there is no room for personal misinterpretation so here is The Guardian link with the video for the full Press Briefing today. Perhaps you might do that in future for clarity?
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/politic...suggests-politics-live?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I was repeating what was being repeated over and over again on the live news conference at 10 Downing Street. So not my interpretation of it.

But if I must:-
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-avoid-pubs-restaurants-and-theatres-11958549


----------



## MollySmith

The Q&A from press offer the most clarity and fill in the gaps. Still no idea personally on what happens to shared households with a 70+ and younger person in them.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> I was repeating what was being repeated over and over again on the live news conference at 10 Downing Street. So not my interpretation of it.
> 
> But if I must:-
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-avoid-pubs-restaurants-and-theatres-11958549


Thank you

I don't think you were but things can just through typing them out but with so many bits of info flying around, it's nice to know where it came from and maybe helps the mods a bit too

sorry about your appointment too, so frustrating and I hope you get a response.


----------



## purringcats

MollySmith said:


> The Q&A from press offer the most clarity and fill in the gaps. Still no idea personally on what happens to shared households with a 70+ and younger person in them.


They aren't closing schools at the moment. I agree there needs to be more clarity on the over 70+'s.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Wish our GP surgery was doing similar.
> 
> Just literally received a phone call from the doctors for my OH. He's been waiting 4 weeks for the appointment. It's been cancelled. He could discuss his issue more of less with a GP over the phone. However it's cancelled completely. Only if he feels it is urgent he needs to phone on Monday and try and get an appointment. Try obviously because all these people with their appointments cancelled this week no doubt will all be trying to get an appointment too.


Actually, that's bad that they've just shut up shop.

No reason why they can't just operate via the telephone using the same appointment system - a phone call rather than a face to face.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jaf said:


> In Spain. I went to the shops today (running out of cat food). It was eerily quiet with all cafes closed, no one walking around and the kids' playground taped off. There is a security guard in supermarket now! All staff wearing masks as were most of the customers. Odd selection of goods in supermarket- no meat, eggs, potatoes but plenty of salad, toilet rolls and hand soap. No shower gel as hand soap has taken over the shelf!
> 
> The council have apparently been hosing down the streets and a van going round telling people to go home.
> 
> GPS are not seeing people. Some sort of APP is being developed so that repeat prescriptions can be ordered. I need blood test but no idea how/ if to arrange it. Hospitals are cancelling appointments but mine for April hasn't been cancelled yet.


We can book blood tests via Swiftqueue - maybe log on to the website and see if your area is covered.

Many are.

You just have to register then you can book an appointment plus other services.


----------



## purringcats

The elderly (70+), vulnerable and with serious health conditions must shield themselves from social contact from this weekend for 12 weeks. All in the news articles that have aleady been posted and repeating on sky news at the moment.


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> I've contacted my tenants and told them to keep me informed if things get difficult. Told them we'll work something out. They're a lovely couple and I don't want them to worry about losing the roof over their head. Their business is just the sort which will be hit. I can afford to wait this storm out and recoup unpaid rent over time but many can't.


That's really kind.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> Actually, that's bad that they've just shut up shop.
> 
> No reason why they can't just operate via the telephone using the same appointment system - a phone call rather than a face to face.


That's what I thought too. Could have asked my OH if his appointment be dealt with over the phone, kept his appointment that way. They do telephone appointments anyway. He was happy to wait for an appointment in the first.


----------



## Jaf

Lurcherlad said:


> We can book blood tests via Swiftqueue - maybe log on to the website and see if your area is covered.
> 
> Many are.
> 
> You just have to register then you can book an appointment plus other services.


Thanks but no chance over here. We've only just got a website for booking gps, but even that system doesn't know which days gp is in. No gp receptionist! I have my gp's mobile number but will wait a couple of days to see what information comes through before bothering him. Some blood tests can be done at the pharmacy but this is a lot of tests before seeing specialist.


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> The Q&A from press offer the most clarity and fill in the gaps. Still no idea personally on what happens to shared households with a 70+ and younger person in them.


I suppose they just have to hope for the best?? My parents are mid seventies and my brother lives with them. He cant exactly work from home coz he is a groundskeeper!


----------



## Sacrechat

MollySmith said:


> What's with rumour on bottled water? I've seen more people than usual bulk buying bottles of it? I can't imagine that tap water is unsafe!


I think the water concern comes from the possibility of employees in water companies being too sick to work and water supplies being interrupted as a result. Whether or not this will happen, of course, is debatable.


----------



## MollySmith

A landlord friend says that by only advising public not to go to pubs, means he can’t close and claim on insurance. If the government said all pubs and entertainment venues must close, insurance would cover them. Expect more locals and their staff to suffer.


----------



## DogLover1981

I think the situation here in the states is crazy. Donald Trump has got to be one of the most idiotic politicians out there in history. He has endangered the lives of his own supporters by trying to give them the mindset that the virus is a hoax with his rhetoric and some may die.


----------



## Sacrechat

rona said:


> I really don't feel as if I'm panicking, though I seemed to have thought about the possible consequences of this long before most and bought supplies over a period of time before most even seemed to care. Also, I don't want to be going shopping at the height of this because I'm caring for someone with cancer.
> 
> I just think if the whole world is down with this, food supplies are going to limited and our own country hasn't many weeks supply in hand, add to that the dire weather of the last winter........................
> 
> I can feed myself


I've been preparing for this for years. Lol! I've always had very well stocked freezers (4 of them) and cupboards. My hubby has been laughing at me since we married 32 years ago, because I've always said, you never know if we won't be able to get out and we need to know we have essentials and food. A few years ago, we were snowed in for two weeks and I said, see, we are fine, because we have everything we need and now, here we go again. We are already well stocked. Both hubby and I are in the vulnerable group.


----------



## DogLover1981

On a side note, I haven't seen anything about the UN yet but I think I know what's going to be subject of discussion soon.


----------



## Sacrechat

ChaosCat said:


> Hairdressers? Are they of equal importance as food stores? :Wideyed
> 
> Or are they on a level with newspapers as sources of information?


Had my hair done this week just in case they closed.


----------



## Cleo38

Sacremist said:


> I think the water concern comes from the possibility of employees in water companies being too sick to work and water supplies being interrupted as a result. Whether or not this will happen, of course, is debatable.


I work for a water company, there is no worries regarding supply or quality. Office based staff are working from home & customer facing are being advised to work with emergencies as normal. Operations staff at water or sewage treatment will continue as normal


----------



## Sacrechat

Jesthar said:


> The vets are carrying on more or less as usual partly out of animal welfare reasons, and partly because the RCVS have heavily implied they may not support any vets who get a complaint raised against them because of coronavirus precautions (a house in self-isolation, for example, would not be considered a valid reason to refuse a home visit). I was talking with a vet friend of mine about it yesterday.


I'm glad to hear this as I've been worried with my two old boys not being in the best of health.


----------



## Jesthar

Sacremist said:


> I think the water concern comes from the possibility of employees in water companies being too sick to work and water supplies being interrupted as a result. Whether or not this will happen, of course, is debatable.


Don't worry about that. We're WAY ahead of the government in terms of planning and capability. We have to be...


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Wish our GP surgery was doing similar.
> 
> Just literally received a phone call from the doctors for my OH. He's been waiting 4 weeks for the appointment. It's been cancelled. He could discuss his issue more of less with a GP over the phone. However it's cancelled completely. Only if he feels it is urgent he needs to phone on Monday and try and get an appointment. Try obviously because all these people with their appointments cancelled this week no doubt will all be trying to get an appointment too.


My GP appointment today was switched to a telephone appointment, but after speaking to the GP, I have to go in for a blood test and I will need a face to face with GP provided I don't have a fever or cough, which I don't.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Still no idea personally on what happens to shared households with a 70+ and younger person in them.


I would have thought the most useful thing you could do is sleep apart if you have a spare room. When you're awake you can be concious of keeping as much distance as possible (1-2 metres depending on what you read) but sharing a bed must be the worst.

I guess you have to work out what is possible in your household for your personal circumstances. If I worked outside the home or went to a crowded supermarket and was coming home to a vulnerable person I would come straight in to a shower and change of clothes (clothes straight into the washing machine). If I'd been out to walk the dog and spoken to one other person outside I wouldn't.


----------



## Psygon

MollySmith said:


> A landlord friend says that by only advising public not to go to pubs, means he can't close and claim on insurance. If the government said all pubs and entertainment venues must close, insurance would cover them. Expect more locals and their staff to suffer.


It feels a bit like shirking responsibility to me. Like they don't want to be the ones that say all pubs must close so they aren't the bad guy. But then by not ordering them to close they are the bad guy anyway.

It feels odd thinking we won't be doing things like going to the pub or out for food or just normal things for a while. Quite hard to take in to a certain extent. But if it actually slows things down it will be worth it.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> A landlord friend says that by only advising public not to go to pubs, means he can't close and claim on insurance. If the government said all pubs and entertainment venues must close, insurance would cover them


I'm arranging a funeral (not virus related). Plan was to decamp from crem to nearby pub for drinks and sandwiches. Only about a dozen people expected including family. What decision do I make now


----------



## mrs phas

Phoned this evening to find out if my brain scan is to go ahead
Yep all is running as normal
Mind only 3 people, of around 730,000 people in Suffolk, have tested positive so far

Update, son is in Hiroshima, all is well and quite a few out and about, facemasks, conspicuous by their absence, except staff at airline terminals, drivers of buses and staff at train stations

Goes to show how pictures can be manipulated to encompass *ALL* people, rather than a small snapshot


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> My GP appointment today was switched to a telephone appointment, but after speaking to the GP, I have to go in for a blood test and I will need a face to face with GP provided I don't have a fever or cough, which I don't.


My OH got a text reminder about his appointment plus it stipulated that if you have a new cough, temperature or flu like symptoms please do not attend. So that's what he would obviously do.

I must say since commenting my son has come in from work and says one of the doctors from the surgery has to self isolate. At the time it was 7 days go from there.. Of course I don't know if it's true or just a rumour. Maybe why they are cancelling all appointments for a week. I am really unsure. But obviously no testing so cannot be certain if the doctor has or has not Covid-19 or not. 
No idea if all doctors are on site but repeat prescriptions are being completed apparently. 
All seems a bit strange.


----------



## havoc

This might be worth knowing
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...ise-nhs-advice-to-take-ibuprofen-for-covid-19


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> But obviously no testing so cannot be certain if the doctor has or has not Covid-19 or not.


I believe they are prioritizing medical staff testing


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> The advise I stated has been advise for over a week.
> 
> Am sorry to back track but it was the advise when you was annoyed at your own sons girlfriend for not self isolating when she didn't need to, and you also advised your son to self isolate for 2 weeks instead of the 1 week which it is advised.
> 
> It's not changing hourly if you are looking at the government's advise. It may change today due to a cobra meeting.
> 
> What may happen is just that, and this has caused the panic buying of everything. Causing such worry for many.


Actually, just cos I'm a pedant
It was from Friday that the 7 day thing started
He went down with it wednesday, hence BEFORE the 7 day, when it was still 14 days and phone 111


----------



## mrs phas

mrs phas said:


> No 2 son is a doorman at one venue and bar supervisor at another
> Yesterday he had a hacking cough (he's a steam vaper) and a temp just below 38
> Despite my pleas, his other half, who works in a chippy, talked him out of phoning 111
> With today's news, he's text the area manager of the doorman venue, to be told
> "Tough, XXX is off, you have to cover"
> So mummy has written him a very strongly worded text, including the SSP and 7 day isolation facts, for son to send
> Other half, however, is refusing to stay home or keep her son home, as
> "There's only been one case in Suffolk and we're over reacting, plus we have no symptoms"
> Squeeze me!!
> Both of them work in extreme customer facing roles!
> 
> And people wonder why the country can't get a handle on it


Link to post, posted THURSDAY
(caps for emphasis only)


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> Actually, just cos I'm a pedant
> It was from Friday that the 7 day thing started
> He went down with it wednesday, hence BEFORE the 7 day, when it was still 14 days and phone 111


It's back up to 14 days again as from today


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Link to post, posted THURSDAY
> (caps for emphasis only)


Either way you were still stating it as fact today.


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> It's back up to 14 days again as from today


I can only be wrong:Hilarious
Didn't you know that


lullabydream said:


> Either way you were still stating it as fact today.


And whoops! It turns out I was right from what Boris the butcher had to say
He just used more politically twisted words than I did

Edit cos fat fingers couldn't spell that


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> I believe they are prioritizing medical staff testing


He's a GP not classed as on the front line.. He's primary care so not a rush to be tested... Have contacted the GP involved.

Hes unsure if he's got it. He just feels he's got 'a bit of a cold'

Edit to add news article about not testing people such as GPs
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/coronavirus-gp-nhs-workers-test-3955760


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Sacremist said:


> I've been preparing for this for years. Lol! I've always had very well stocked freezers (4 of them) and cupboards. My hubby has been laughing at me since we married 32 years ago, because I've always said, you never know if we won't be able to get out and we need to know we have essentials and food. A few years ago, we were snowed in for two weeks and I said, see, we are fine, because we have everything we need and now, here we go again. We are already well stocked. Both hubby and I are in the vulnerable group.


I'm smiling at this @Sacremist as I also have a very well stocked larder as well as two fridge freezers and folk always take the mickey out of me. I also have a second loft full of loo rolls and kitchen rolls and tissues, I always buy a tonne at Costco and I stocked up about four months ago (as it's quite a journey to go there I need to make it worth my while). Our plumber came round a couple of months ago, had to go into that loft and asked why we needed so many loo rolls. I reckon he thinks I'm quite sensible now 

Of course, if I hear of friends having issues obtaining any of the things I have lots of, I shall be more than happy to donate them some supplies.


----------



## kimthecat

My sister has ordered a delivery. Its coming on the 27th ! Its the earliest they can do.

@mrs phas How did your drive to Heathrow airport go. Did your son get away ok ?


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> My OH got a text reminder about his appointment plus it stipulated that if you have a new cough, temperature or flu like symptoms please do not attend. So that's what he would obviously do.
> 
> I must say since commenting my son has come in from work and says one of the doctors from the surgery has to self isolate. At the time it was 7 days go from there.. Of course I don't know if it's true or just a rumour. Maybe why they are cancelling all appointments for a week. I am really unsure. But obviously no testing so cannot be certain if the doctor has or has not Covid-19 or not.
> No idea if all doctors are on site but repeat prescriptions are being completed apparently.
> All seems a bit strange.


I read on another forum that public health advice to all health services was to conduct telephone appointments only to triage patients and find out who needs to see a doctor and who only requires a prescription. I'm pretty sure that is what the receptionist said to me as well and from other posts I've seen it is being rolled out across the country at health centres and hospitals.


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> I read on another forum that public health advice to all health services was to conduct telephone appointments only to triage patients and find out who needs to see a doctor and who only requires a prescription. I'm pretty sure that is what the receptionist said to me as well and from other posts I've seen it is being rolled out across the country at health centres and hospitals.


I wish they did, but they just full blown cancelled and said phone Monday if its an emergency. OH tried to explain he's been waiting 4 weeks, for whoever he spoke to say well it's not an emergency is it.

He's happy with over the phone conversation with a doctor. It needs to be a doctor. He already had this conversation when he phoned originally that it couldn't be a nurse practitioner to deal with him but his own doctor. Hence he had to have the 4 week wait in the first place. We do have telephone appointments but it was said best to have an appointment as it's ongoing health issue.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> My sister has ordered a delivery. Its coming on the 27th ! Its the earliest they can do.
> 
> @mrs phas How did your drive to Heathrow airport go. Did your son get away ok ?


Heathrow and back was fine, 10 min traffic jam to get into my home town due to queue for aldi:Joyful
Son in Hiroshima, JAL are even better than virgin, he says hardly anyone are wearing masks, loads of people around, market heaving and it's nothing like the media are making out


----------



## mrs phas

@kimthecat 
hes going here tomorrow ( its 6.30 am there now)

http://visithiroshima.net/world_heritage/itsukushima/miyajima.html


----------



## Dogloverlou

As much as I've been keeping a sensible and rational perspective on all this, I must admit the last few days my anxiety has been triggered  just to much doom and gloom everytime you turn the news on. I'm going to avoid it for the time being I think.

Last Thursday time I developed a lightheaded kind of dizzy sensation in my head and I've had it ever since and the past two days I've had a tightness in my chest. This has triggered my health anxiety and whilst the symptoms don't fit with Coronavirus I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed and debating on whether I should be letting my employers know I'm not feeling 100%?


----------



## Billbailey

Could it be trigger-stacking? Might be worth having the rest of the week at home if you can and not watch any news at all and let your anxiety level go down a bit. I've given up twitter to help with mine.


----------



## mrs phas

how are we supposed to get food delivered, when theres sod all delivery slots for over 2 weeks
both matt and i are in in the health group,so hello 12 weeks sleeping and computing
but
although dog food wont run short anytime soon
ill be damned if im eating tripe or chicken feet


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> how are we supposed to get food delivered, when theres sod all delivery slots for over 2 weeks
> both matt and i are in in the health group,so hello 12 weeks sleeping and computing
> but
> although dog food wont run short anytime soon
> ill be damned if im eating tripe or chicken feet


Can you do click and collect? It would at least lower the risk for you...

I'm tough as old boots, and not planning on becoming a hermit just yet, although I suspect in the light of BoJo's latest ramblings it might be suggeted I work from home soon. There's only really the monthly reporting I can't do from home.


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Can you do click and collect? It would at least lower the risk for you...
> 
> I'm tough as old boots, and not planning on becoming a hermit just yet, although I suspect in the light of BoJo's latest ramblings it might be suggeted I work from home soon. There's only really the monthly reporting I can't do from home.


nope, dont get paid til monday, so cant pay in advance, either to hold the delivery slot or do click and collect
when one is on benefits and disabled, one has to literally live hand to mouth
this is what these hoarders and BJ dont get, oaps and those reliant on benefits cant afford trolley loads of food and loo rolls
nor can we afford to buy in advance, UC, and dwp benefits, just dont allow for it

Also to add, my medications go to my nearest pharmacy, who dont deliver, never bothered me before, because it is within walking distance
may be changing that after this
dont want to, local independant etc
but boots and Llyods offer delivery, so id be silly not to
this is the type of things where local independants are going to feel the losses and might end up going to the wall


----------



## Dogloverlou

Billbailey said:


> Could it be trigger-stacking? Might be worth having the rest of the week at home if you can and not watch any news at all and let your anxiety level go down a bit. I've given up twitter to help with mine.


Possibly. But I'm usually only triggered when I feel physical symptoms myself. It's something I have to make clear to doctor's as they are quick to try and put it down to anxiety. Not that I've even seen my GP in 6 years!

It's all worrying tbh.


----------



## Dave S




----------



## DogLover1981

SusieRainbow said:


> An excellent article on protecting your mental health during the outbreak.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51873799


I don't have a twitter account but I do have a FB. I've been avoiding posting about it constantly because it's probably not healthy for the people on my FB. It'd be hard not to post at all about a global event such as this though.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> @kimthecat
> hes going here tomorrow ( its 6.30 am there now)
> 
> http://visithiroshima.net/world_heritage/itsukushima/miyajima.html


oh Wow !


----------



## ZoeM

We need a "I survived the virus" thread.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Just turned tv on and it always come on on the Sky Sports News channel.

Anyway, the graphic behind the 2 presenters are the words in large letters CORONAVIRUS - PANDEMIC over a blue circle with red background with millions of “live” bacteria dots swarming around all over it.

Not sure that’s helpful to anyone with anxiety over this tbh


----------



## havoc

It isn’t helpful to anyone and I’m getting ever more angry at the media coverage.

Boris gave a reasonable, informative briefing yesterday and within ten minutes the BBC had sensationalised it.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Beth78

Magyarmum said:


>


Ha! That's brilliant


----------



## Cleo38

Hahahaha, that's hilarious @Magyarmum!!!


----------



## Magyarmum

DogLover1981 said:


> I think the situation here in the states is crazy. Donald Trump has got to be one of the most idiotic politicians out there in history. He has endangered the lives of his own supporters by trying to give them the mindset that the virus is a hoax with his rhetoric and some may die.


I know!

My US cousin's wife has posted things on FB which now have notices on them which say "Fake News". Having gone from saying the virus is a plot between the media and the Democrats, her latest post reckons it's a conspiracy between the media and Deep State to ruin the US economy!

I despair!


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> This might be worth knowing
> https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...ise-nhs-advice-to-take-ibuprofen-for-covid-19


I saw this on Facebook and thought it was just more scaremongering, but having read up on it, the idea behind it feels pretty sound.

So although it isn't proven, it's probably good advice if you get the symptoms.

Snopes take on it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-nsaids-ibuprofen/

Of course, it's a choice.


----------



## Happy Paws2

No choice anyway, I can only take paracetamol.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Good news imo that The Grand National has been cancelled


----------



## Happy Paws2

I was surprised they ran the Cheltenham Festival but I think it was the last race for sometime. I do love the Grand National I shall miss it this year.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


>


Brilliant....I need a laugh:Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know we need information and kept up to date with whats happening, but the I think the News channels are over egging it. I think the media are the ones causing most of the panic.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> No choice anyway, I can only take paracetamol.


I'm supposed to as I'm asthmatic, but manage with Ibuprofen. Might be time to stop.


----------



## MilleD

Has anyone else stood looking at what food they have in wondering what weird and wonderful meals they are going to have to concoct?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I saw this on Facebook and thought it was just more scaremongering, but having read up on it, the idea behind it feels pretty sound.
> 
> So although it isn't proven, it's probably good advice if you get the symptoms.
> 
> Snopes take on it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-nsaids-ibuprofen/
> 
> Of course, it's a choice.


Three years ago (almost to the day), I was rushed to hospital with a perforated stomach ulcer. What was very strange was that I had virtually no symptoms and no history of stomach problems either.

Trying to get some insight on what had caused the ulcer, my consultant asked if I'd taken Ibuprofen and if so for how long? As it happened, I'd been taking it on a regular basis for two or three years for pain control for the problems I'd had with a broken femur. He then explained that Iboprofen could well have been the main contributor to my developing an ulcer.

After that experience I vowed I'd never take one again! .


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> It isn't helpful to anyone and I'm getting ever more angry at the media coverage.
> 
> Boris gave a reasonable, informative briefing yesterday and within ten minutes the BBC had sensationalised it.


I thought all three in the briefing were good yesterday. They must be exhausted, but they were all rational and calm.

I was actually pretty impressed.


----------



## O2.0

Schools closed here for at least 2 weeks. Major cities restrict restaurants, bars, and cafes to take-out and delivery only, San Francisco residents ordered to 'shelter in place' (don't leave home except for essentials like food and pharmacy). 

Selfishly, I'm worried about our little community here. Small businesses who operate on the smallest of margins, students for whom school is a safe, clean place to go, away from dysfunctional, abusive homes. I'm worried about parents who can't miss work but now have little ones at home who can't be left. 

In happier news though, social media has blown up with offers to help others. Teens out of school offering to babysit for parents who need to work, teachers offering to help with online learning, people who aren't high risk offering to shop for higher risk folks. Shops opening early for high risk, or elderly patrons only so they can shop in a freshly cleaned store without potential less exposure. Restaurants offering free kid meals... The list goes on and on. 

A lot of people are worried, yes, but the best way to mitigate that stress (IMHO) is to sit and think about who else might be suffering and see what you can do for them. 

It's also very encouraging that the first vaccine trials for this virus are already underway.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I thought all three in the briefing were good yesterday. They must be exhausted, but they were all rational and calm.
> 
> I was actually pretty impressed.


Same here!. I watched Boris and Co and like you was impressed. I also watched Macron announcing the lock down in France again all very measured and calm.

And then I watched POTUS who sounded totally bored to death

.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I have a look at the news for a couple of minutes in a day then switch it off.

The newspapers are loving it though. Particularly The Daily Fail. Have you noticed the map of Britain they use is all dark colours and deep red, with yellow and red writing? It's all designed to cause fear. Those colours are made to unsettle the reader. Then every single article almost is about it. Cant stand that paper.

Oh and The Sun


----------



## ZoeM

You shouldnt give Ibruprofen if patient is asthmatic, as it can set off their asthma. I guess the virus affects lungs a little the same x


----------



## lorilu

In the US state and local governments are closing things down, taking steps to drastically reduce any crowding. Schools and government buildings are closed along with restaurants (take out only) bars, gyms and so on.

Out come the moaners "government doesn't have a right to me what to do" using the term "nanny state" saying things like 6,600 dead is just a drop in the bucket how many people are in the world, most people will handle the bug just fine...you know the drill.

The thing is, if these measures weren't being taken, and everyone was left to carry on and infect people left and right, when we turned into what is happening, in Italy for instance, everyone one will be screaming "why didn't the government do something before it was too late".

Since our local and state governments ARE doing something, the impact of this virus is likely to be much less devastating in the US. So now people are going to say "how stupid,I knew we didn't need any of those safeguards after all".

You know why we need them? BECAUSE of people like that. Because people don't, WON'T use proper hygiene or even common courtesy.

Yesterday I was at the bank. The teller called me to his window, then asked me to wait a moment, turned his back and proceeded to blow his nose. Not just a wipe but a very wet juicy blow. You could tell he had a cold, his nose all stuffed up and red with that nasal sound. I had a cold too. Well, I am just getting over it. I went home as soon as I knew I was unwell, that was on Friday early afternoon and had the weekend to recover.

Anyway so this bank teller blows his nose, tosses the tissue and then ignoring the giant bottle of hand sanitizer next to the tissue box, turns back and reaches for my deposit slips. I was stunned and without thinking said "You're supposed to sanitize your hands after blowing your nose".

I mean, seriously, you would do that even in a normal situation, without a pandemic. Wouldn't you? I certainly do, always have, its just common sense for crying out loud. Common courtesy even. Who DOES that?

He got huffy when I said that though. He was having a hectic day, he forgot, he's human, he muttered. But even after I had reminded him, he STILL didn't do it. So he proceeded to handle my transaction with snot all over his hands.

It's because of people like that that drastic measures have to be taken. Because people will not use sense, or even courtesy.


----------



## lullabydream

ZoeM said:


> You shouldnt give Ibruprofen if patient is asthmatic, as it can set off their asthma. I guess the virus affects lungs a little the same x


That depends on the person with asthma. I can take ibuprofen but can't take stronger NSAIDS suchs as naproxen
As a person who suffers from chronic migraines I shouldn't take paracetamol as advised by neurologists as a newish study suggests paracetamol is migraine inducing just as bad as codeine.

Obviously what do I take.. My migraines can wipe me out from 2 days to a week anyway, Ibruprofen may take a slight edge off them.

If I come down with Covid-19 high possibility what do I rely on. Am already on the vulnerable list.


----------



## ZoeM

lullabydream said:


> That depends on the person with asthma. I can take ibuprofen but can't take stronger NSAIDS suchs as naproxen
> As a person who suffers from chronic migraines I shouldn't take paracetamol as advised by neurologists as a newish study suggests paracetamol is migraine inducing just as bad as codeine.
> 
> Obviously what do I take.. My migraines can wipe me out from 2 days to a week anyway, Ibruprofen may take a slight edge off them.
> 
> If I come down with Covid-19 high possibility what do I rely on. Am already on the vulnerable list.


You need to be avoiding anyone with children. It is rife in schools, I am really sorry to say. Please just take paracetamol xx


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> That depends on the person with asthma. I can take ibuprofen but can't take stronger NSAIDS suchs as naproxen
> As a person who suffers from chronic migraines I shouldn't take paracetamol as advised by neurologists as a newish study suggests paracetamol is migraine inducing just as bad as codeine.
> 
> Obviously what do I take.. My migraines can wipe me out from 2 days to a week anyway, Ibruprofen may take a slight edge off them.
> 
> If I come down with Covid-19 high possibility what do I rely on. Am already on the vulnerable list.


If it was me, I'd take the risk on the migraines rather than something that could get more serious (by serious I mean a real risk to health rather than how it feels).

Must be a difficult decision to make though.

Staying away from folks is probably your best option sadly.


----------



## lullabydream

ZoeM said:


> You need to be avoiding anyone with children. It is rife in schools, I am really sorry to say. Please just take paracetamol xx


I can't I support a young adult (plus the family to some respects) with challenging behaviour in her home. I have always washed hands a lot anyway. Just do the best I can.

I have contact with the school she attends any child who is presenting as unwell is being sent home ASAP. School is in lock down as best they can; so no visitors unless vital , no trips out. Prompting and more handwashing regimes in place. Due to high amounts of ASC hand gel/cleanser as alternatives.


----------



## Sacrechat

Magyarmum said:


> I know!
> 
> My US cousin's wife has posted things on FB which now have notices on them which say "Fake News". Having gone from saying the virus is a plot between the media and the Democrats, her latest post reckons it's a conspiracy between the media and Deep State to ruin the US economy!
> 
> I despair!


Oh, I've had this too! I didn't realise how many numpties I have as friends on Facebook. Even a close personal friend of mine was posting propaganda about the stories using Covid-19 as a ploy to distract people from more important government injustice. I'm currently avoiding any conversation with her in case I say something I might regret.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I can't I support a young adult (plus the family to some respects) with challenging behaviour in her home. I have always washed hands a lot anyway. Just do the best I can.
> 
> I have contact with the school she attends any child who is presenting as unwell is being sent home ASAP. School is in lock down as best they can; so no visitors unless vital , no trips out. Prompting and more handwashing regimes in place. Due to high amounts of ASC hand gel/cleanser as alternatives.


The problem is that children have proved to be pretty resilient in all this so could be asymptomatic.

Take care x


----------



## Magyarmum

Sacremist said:


> Oh, I've had this too! I didn't realise how many numpties I have as friends on Facebook. Even a close personal friend of mine was posting propaganda about the stories using Covid-19 as a ploy to distract people from more important government injustice. I'm currently avoiding any conversation with her in case I say something I might regret.


I'm trying to do the same! Takes a lot of will power though:Arghh


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> Oh, I've had this too! I didn't realise how many numpties I have as friends on Facebook. Even a close personal friend of mine was posting propaganda about the stories using Covid-19 as a ploy to distract people from more important government injustice. I'm currently avoiding any conversation with her in case I say something I might regret.


I have a similar problem with my son who has a tendency to believe things he reads on the internet. I do get cross with him at times (and ignore him the rest of the time). His latest thing is colloidal silver as a cure all. I know it is effective on wounds as it has antiseptic properties and this has been backed up by scientists, but I'm not taking the stuff whatever he says, I might turn blue (it did happen to one person)


----------



## Jaf

Repeat prescriptions still not available on my Spanish app. Only have 5 days of 1 drug left. Also supposed to have blood and urine test, need to collect specimen bottle and book test but can’t do it without going into gps.

Health app says do not go to gp! Cannot buy meds over counter (used to be able to). Eurgh.

Still don’t know if April hospital specialist appointment still going ahead.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> The problem is that children have proved to be pretty resilient in all this so could be asymptomatic.
> 
> Take care x


I know but many many of us work with children. Many children need care at this time too. If all of us in the vulnerable group that aren't over 70 stopped working with children, residential homes, extra support that really is needed such as respite and what I do would no longer be there, plus much more so many would suffer. They will suffer I know at some point no doubt everyone will be isolated but currently people like me and others need to carry on.


----------



## ChaosCat

O2.0 said:


> Schools closed here for at least 2 weeks. Major cities restrict restaurants, bars, and cafes to take-out and delivery only, San Francisco residents ordered to 'shelter in place' (don't leave home except for essentials like food and pharmacy).
> 
> Selfishly, I'm worried about our little community here. Small businesses who operate on the smallest of margins, students for whom school is a safe, clean place to go, away from dysfunctional, abusive homes. I'm worried about parents who can't miss work but now have little ones at home who can't be left.
> 
> In happier news though, social media has blown up with offers to help others. Teens out of school offering to babysit for parents who need to work, teachers offering to help with online learning, people who aren't high risk offering to shop for higher risk folks. Shops opening early for high risk, or elderly patrons only so they can shop in a freshly cleaned store without potential less exposure. Restaurants offering free kid meals... The list goes on and on.
> 
> A lot of people are worried, yes, but the best way to mitigate that stress (IMHO) is to sit and think about who else might be suffering and see what you can do for them.
> 
> It's also very encouraging that the first vaccine trials for this virus are already underway.


Here the schools are closed until the Easter holidays. We provided the pupils with worksheets for home schooling. The children of parents working in system relevant jobs are being taken care of at school by us.


----------



## JANICE199

*All this panic is causing more stress than the actual problem. My fear is this, STOP reading what social media has to say and use your common sense. People panic buying and having to share every bit of rubbish that is posted isn't helping anyone. *


----------



## havoc

There’s so much rubbish being spouted I’ve just about reached saturation point.
My thoughts are now:-l
I may or may not get it - statistically probably will.
I may or may not survive it - statistically very probably will.
What am I going to cook for dinner?


----------



## Dogloverlou

Anyone up for it? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...don-pay-volunteers-3-500-develop-vaccine.html


----------



## purringcats

My local Tesco store at 2pm today
























There is isle after isle like these photos.


----------



## Siskin

purringcats said:


> My local Tesco store at 2pm today
> View attachment 433577
> 
> View attachment 433576
> 
> View attachment 433578
> 
> There is isle after isle like these photos.


Good grief


----------



## Jesthar

Just to add a little reason to the mix, I asked a family member who is an NHS Dr for their professional opinion. They said: 

"Social distancing, cough into your elbow, avoid shaking hands, wash your hands for 20 seconds. Everything else is guff."

Hope that will reassure a few people in the light of the stupid stuff pervading social media


----------



## purringcats

The shop assistant at Tesco said they are not open 24 hours at the moment and are closed 12am to 6am to restock. She said within 4 hours of opening at 6am (so around 10am) the shelves are empty again. They have given up restocking during the day and my local store also does the home delivery orders as well.

I saw going around the store mum, dad and children had trollies each filling them up due to restrictions Tesco have put on purchases.


----------



## purringcats

Dogloverlou said:


> Anyone up for it?
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...don-pay-volunteers-3-500-develop-vaccine.html


No thanks.


----------



## Dogloverlou

purringcats said:


> My local Tesco store at 2pm today
> View attachment 433577
> 
> View attachment 433576
> 
> View attachment 433578
> 
> There is isle after isle like these photos.


That's just ridiculous! So frustrating for those of us who just want to do a normal bloody shop!


----------



## ZoeM

I am off sick with symptoms, likely the virus as all kids in schools coughing away, so I have been reading reputable sources of information such as the world health organisation. The guys who gather ALL the information from around the world and then advise accordingly. This is who other countries have been getting advice from.

The ibruprofen thing is a myth. If you take it normally, continue to take it. 
Drinking water does not protect you - stay hydrated if you have a fever as you would with the flu.
Holding your breath and doing a cough test does not tell you whether you have the virus or not.
Colloidal silver, vitamins and essential oils will not stop you getting the virus.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Dogloverlou said:


> That's just ridiculous! So frustrating for those of us who just want to do a normal bloody shop!


Yep! The country really needs to get a grip with this now! I have always shopped locally, I pick up things daily or every couple of days. I have always shopped like that. Up until last week I was unconcerned but now I cant get anything! My mum was due out of hospital today so yesterday evening I tried to get some supplies in ready for her, just milk, bread, cheese nothing out the ordinary, couldn't get any of it, thinking it was cos it was evening so would try again today but still hardly anything. Poor cashier said they had done a restock as best they could but it had gone as soon as the opened the doors. The fresh goods or those with shortish use by dates were ok until recently but it seems everything is going now


----------



## MilleD

ZoeM said:


> I am off sick with symptoms, likely the virus as all kids in schools coughing away, so I have been reading reputable sources of information such as the world health organisation. The guys who gather ALL the information from around the world and then advise accordingly. This is who other countries have been getting advice from.
> 
> The ibruprofen thing is a myth. If you take it normally, continue to take it.
> Drinking water does not protect you - stay hydrated if you have a fever as you would with the flu.
> Holding your breath and doing a cough test does not tell you whether you have the virus or not.
> Colloidal silver, vitamins and essential oils will not stop you getting the virus.
> 
> https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters


Read up how ibuprofen works. I don't think it's a myth. And certainly not a proven one.

If you need to take it, take it, but not to fight the symptoms of the virus.


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> My local Tesco store at 2pm today
> View attachment 433577
> 
> View attachment 433576
> 
> View attachment 433578
> 
> There is isle after isle like these photos.


Took four trips, four days in a row, for me to be able to find chicken breast for Queen Eva. I am we4ll stocked on other meats, and all Mazy cat's specialty meats. But somehow I ran low on her chicken breast without realizing it. I'm now set with that for 5 weeks, though I will attempt to replenish in a couple of weeks to stay on top, as I normally do anyway. I always try to keep a month's supply of everything in my home. I grew up poor and we always ran out of everything. I have a thing about having enough, now.

. I did not strip the bin, I took two and left two. Every time I tried these past four days the store was crowded with people. Every single day. Just wall to wall people in the store. It's insanity.


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> I saw going around the store mum, dad and children had trollies each filling them up due to restrictions Tesco have put on purchases.


Disgusting.


----------



## ZoeM

lorilu said:


> Took four trips, four days in a row, for me to be able to find chicken breast for Queen Eva. I am we4ll stocked on other meats, and all Mazy cat's specialty meats. But somehow I ran low on her chicken breast without realizing it. I'm now set with that for 5 weeks, though I will attempt to replenish in a couple of weeks to stay on top, as I normally do anyway. I always try to keep a month's supply of everything in my home. I grew up poor and we always ran out of everything. I have a thing about having enough, now.
> 
> . I did not strip the bin, I took two and left two. Every time I tried these past four days the store was crowded with people. Every single day. Just wall to wall people in the store. It's insanity.


Lovely to spy you @lorilu Stay well m'dear xx


----------



## rona

Just put my sports centre membership on hold for 3 months 

Kayaking here I come


----------



## havoc

ZoeM said:


> so I have been reading reputable sources of information such as the world health organisation. The guys who gather ALL the information from around the world and then advise accordingly. This is who other countries have been getting advice from.


Hmmmm. They've been known to pick and choose a bit. Other thing is they are giving out very general information. The clue is in the name - general 'world' information doesn't take into account specifics in different countries.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Just put my sports centre membership on hold for 3 months
> 
> Kayaking here I come


I feel you, I'll need to get the bike out as the gym might be off limits.

First world problems I guess though...


----------



## havoc

Pretty impressed with the measures announced by the Chancellor.


----------



## Jason25

Makro is nearly empty, they have a rule for pasta and rice, one bag per person and that is one bag of pasta OR one bag of rice lol. 

My shopping was
3kg of pasta
5kg of chicken breast
3kg of sweet potato
2kg of normal potato
2kg onion rings.. Cos who doesn't like onion rings :Hilarious
1kg peas
1kg carrots
Coffee
Big tin of baked beans
3 jars of pasta cooking sauce
3 pot noodles
And an energy drink
I will be going back on Saturday morning for more pasta and sauces.

The seed is planted deep into my head now and I won't be going without food :Hilarious


----------



## havoc

Wonderful headline on Yahoo 
*Francisco Garcia death: Spanish football coach dies from coronavirus aged 21*

In the body of the text
A 21-year-old Spanish football coach has died from coronavirus,* having been suffering from a form of leukaemia. *(my bold)


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> Wonderful headline on Yahoo
> *Francisco Garcia death: Spanish football coach dies from coronavirus aged 21*
> 
> In the body of the text
> A 21-year-old Spanish football coach has died from coronavirus,* having been suffering from a form of leukaemia. *(my bold)


Another wonderful headline I spotted today went along the lines of

First royal gets test positive for coronovirus

Body of text ( my take on it anyway)

Minor royal from another country (I think it was Spain)


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> Wonderful headline on Yahoo
> *Francisco Garcia death: Spanish football coach dies from coronavirus aged 21*
> 
> In the body of the text
> A 21-year-old Spanish football coach has died from coronavirus,* having been suffering from a form of leukaemia. *(my bold)


I saw that same headline too. Not yahoo, somewhere else. So friggin' irresponsible! It's infuriating.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Dear oh heck. Sometimes I wish I didn't work in the NHS. 

What a blinking day that was.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> I feel you, I'll need to get the bike out as the gym might be off limits.
> 
> First world problems I guess though...


Not a problem


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Pretty impressed with the measures announced by the Chancellor.


except nothing for those on zero hours contracts/gig economy/self employed again
and
yep mortgage holiday
but
what about the majority, of those forty and unders, that are in private rent, because they were priced out of the housing market, and, all of a sudden, cant meet their rent payments either

cant say i had any sympathy for the builder bloke they interviewed that said
"no way i can exist on £94 a week"
when those on benefits, ( dont go there, people can be on long term benefits for various reasons) are deemed, by BJ and his cronies, to be able to live ( survive more like) on £20 less


----------



## Happy Paws2

This afternoon OH decided to have a walk and go down to Sainsbury's just to see if they had, had another delivery of bread. He meet a elderly lady on a mobility scooter on her way home, he asked her if she knew if they had any bread in, she said no and that she gone down just to get a few extra things and said she couldn't get anything she needed.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> except nothing for those on zero hours contracts/gig economy/self employed again


I do understand that many will want more and he's said there's more to come.



mrs phas said:


> cant say i had any sympathy for the builder bloke they interviewed that said
> "no way i can exist on £94 a week"
> when those on benefits, ( dont go there, people can be on long term benefits for various reasons) are deemed, by BJ and his cronies, to be able to live ( survive more like) on £20 less


As far as I'm aware SSP is not a gateway benefit so that's what you get in total. That's not quite the same as those who also get housing benefit etc.


----------



## catz4m8z

My parents told me that in their local supermarket the staff were having to go round with the elderly customers as if something was out of stock people were stealing it from their baskets! What is wrong with some people!unch

Im now curious to see if there is anything left in my town....not curious enough to pop in yet though!


----------



## purringcats

Just when I thought I saw and heard everything thinking people are being unfair I hear off the chip van man tonight his friend works for Tesco and said this morning people took food from the foodbank donation point in Tesco. How low can people go? This is really low as the foodbank donations are for those that need food and cannot afford to buy any. This made me so angry hearing this. People were also stealing from each others baskets and trollies.

The chip van man said they are going to try and stay open as long as possible but they will go under if they do have to close as they rely on people buying from them to keep providing the local chip van. Which is sad to hear.


----------



## Siskin

We are supposed to be a chip van come round once a month, this was something that the village was asked if it wanted (there was a resounding yes). I've no idea when or if it will start now, but it would be handy to have them come, we could send friends that live across the road to get them as they are younger then us, well actually I could go as I'm under 70 but I'm not going anywhere with my current health issue


----------



## Jesthar

Mum (of all people!) just sent me this  (entitled 'Times is tough')










Edit: well, that didn't work. I'll try again later...


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Just when I thought I saw and heard everything thinking people are being unfair I hear off the chip van man tonight his friend works for Tesco and said this morning people took food from the foodbank donation point in Tesco. How low can people go? This is really low as the foodbank donations are for those that need food and cannot afford to buy any. This made me so angry hearing this. People were also stealing from each others baskets and trollies.


Where are you? It must be area specific. I was in Farmfoods this morning and people (customers and staff) were SO nice. It was a joy to be there and I hate shopping. Sure there were some empty spaces on the shelves but nobody being so dreadful.


----------



## rona

My friend said he's not listening to any of it because it's all doom and gloom 

Must be odd knowing you have very limited time, not wanting to waste any, and have everyone around you behaving so worried


----------



## havoc

A bit of good news - a band I love are live streaming tonight as they can’t play to a live audience. It’s amazing how that has lifted my mood. All I have to do is stay awake


----------



## Siskin




----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> View attachment 433624


Love it!


----------



## Jaf

Spain. I heard that a pharmacy in another town was selling medications without a valid prescription so I drove there this evening. I got all but 1 of my drugs. Yay!!! Hopefully the health app will start doing repeat prescriptions soon as it was expensive.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

havoc said:


> A bit of good news - a band I love are live streaming tonight as they can't play to a live audience. It's amazing how that has lifted my mood. All I have to do is stay awake


Is that on the WHO stream that Chris Martin was on last night @havoc ? I think John Legend is on tonight too.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> A bit of good news - a band I love are live streaming tonight as they can't play to a live audience. It's amazing how that has lifted my mood. All I have to do is stay awake


What's the band?
I did read the headline about this and thought how nice but never read whose playing


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> What's the band?


Dropkick Murphys
Unthinkable they wouldn't perform on St Paddy's day 
Takes more than a pandemic to stop them!


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Dropkick Murphys
> Unthinkable they wouldn't perform on St Paddy's day
> Takes more than a pandemic to stop them!


Haven't heard that name for a while!
They definitely need to perform today!


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Haven't heard that name for a while!


Saw them in Leeds and Brixton last year - once per U.K. tour just isn't enough 
Livestream starts 11pm tonight our time.


----------



## willa

I hope they close schools soon


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> I hope they close schools soon


It's a double edged sword closing schools. 
A lot of people rely on the older generation to care for children as they have to work. The older generation are vulnerable. So letting the children out of school early means the NHS could suddenly be hit hard.. Are they really ready?
If people have to take time off to care for children.. The work force off the nation takes a dive.. It's going to happen but if many suddenly have to do then the economy takes it hit, people lose money its hard on everyone. 
Then what happens when the virus strikes?
The idea of isolating for 14 days whole families currently is that slowly you all get the virus no two ways about it, whether you have symptoms or not but it's gradual. Less strain on economy and the NHS.

I think the government are probably waiting now for the end of term to prep hospitals, although most schools are set for closures soon if need be as far as I know where I live.

However if children are ill as you have stated in your nursery then surely some policy should be put in place to protect the adults who work there.


----------



## mrs phas

willa said:


> I hope they close schools soon


why?
think of all the nhs staff who would have to take time off to look after their children
causing more chaos for hospitals
cos if schools shut
so would most, if not all, childminders
who are mainly self employed, so thered be no money coming in for them - more families in, possible, poverty
and nurserys would also close, possibly causing them to lay off staff or go to the wall- lots of little independants around here, rather than bigger ones
children running feral in the streets, cos you can be sure, espeially the older ones, are not going to want to stay in for 12-16 weeks, more mischief, more available to be enlisted into county lines crime
2 more weeks, in most places, theyll be on holiday anyway,
why encourage closure before that
especially, as it seems from reports by professionals, those pre adult and younger, only tend to get a milder form of cov-19, for some reason


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> you can be sure, espeially the older ones, are not going to want to stay in for 12-16 weeks, more mischief, more available to be enlisted into county lines crime


Doesn't have to be criminal to be a problem. Groups of youngsters trying all the make-up and trying on clothes is not going to help contain this virus. Teenagers are not going to stay home while parents are at work.


----------



## O2.0

willa said:


> I hope they close schools soon


We have shut schools down here and while I hope it stems the tide as they're hoping it will, it's also a huge hardship for families, not to mention the children for whom school is their only safe place


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lullabydream said:


> It's a double edged sword closing schools.
> A lot of people rely on the older generation to care for children as they have to work. The older generation are vulnerable. So letting the children out of school early means the NHS could suddenly be hit hard.. Are they really ready?
> If people have to take time off to care for children.. The work force off the nation takes a dive.. It's going to happen but if many suddenly have to do then the economy takes it hit, people lose money its hard on everyone.
> Then what happens when the virus strikes?
> The idea of isolating for 14 days whole families currently is that slowly you all get the virus no two ways about it, whether you have symptoms or not but it's gradual. Less strain on economy and the NHS.
> 
> I think the government are probably waiting now for the end of term to prep hospitals, although most schools are set for closures soon if need be as far as I know where I live.
> 
> However if children are ill as you have stated in your nursery then surely some policy should be put in place to protect the adults who work there.


 At least one school in my area has had partial closure due to staff having to self isolate, yesterday it was just one year group today it is three I believe, I imagine the whole school will have to close soon, maybe break up early for Easter and hope those isolating staff can come back to work after the holidays.


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> At least one school in my area has had partial closure due to staff having to self isolate


Children aren't the problem as they aren't badly affected by the virus. It is staff shortages. That's where a quick and reliable test would be a real bonus. There must be loads of teachers in self isolation who needn't be.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Doesn't have to be criminal to be a problem. Groups of youngsters trying all the make-up and trying on clothes is not going to help contain this virus. Teenagers are not going to stay home while parents are at work.


not sure where you think i said it *had to be* criminal, ?
just said older ones* wouldnt want to stay at home* for 12-16 weeks
more would be* available* to enlist into country lines crime
and
that *they would* cause more mischief,

so really,
you part quoted my post,
and then,
rewrote it,
as if id said something completely different to the point of your post

i dont get it :Facepalm


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> more would be* available* to enlist into country lines crime


I presume you meant county lines which means drug trafficking.. Which is criminal.. I don't see what you are getting at..

I loved reading what @O2.0 was saying about young people in her area was offering to babysit for those who need help, then I read threads that children in the UK are causing trouble? Am sorry I have seen children with so many difficulties achieve so much in my that I can say all 12-16 year old would be easy to led in to drug trafficking. My community that does has its faults of drug problems, drink problems, low socioeconomic area but I wouldn't think children I pass or if they off school due to Covid-19 are going to get into trouble or cause trouble


----------



## O2.0

Yes, our community FB is flooded with offers to babysit, help with homework, run errands...
First it was college kids who found out their breaks were being extended, now it's also high school kids offering to help however they can.
My own teenagers are both out in the community right now, one at work, the other helping a younger student with online learning.
Last I checked neither is doing or selling drugs 

ETA:


mrs phas said:


> that *they would* cause more mischief,


Perhaps some would cause mischief, but IME in our small community, youngsters are rallying along with the rest of the community to see what they can do to help.

And not just with this virus outbreak. I've seen these kids rally to help each other, other community members having hard times, kids in general around here have been a force for good.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> Yes, our community FB is flooded with offers to babysit, help with homework, run errands...
> First it was college kids who found out their breaks were being extended, now it's also high school kids offering to help however they can.
> My own teenagers are both out in the community right now, one at work, the other helping a younger student with online learning.
> Last I checked neither is doing or selling drugs


No mine never did either. Am sure more kids are good and stay on the rails then go off them so to speak


----------



## lorilu

Has this been posted in this thread yet?


----------



## ZoeM

The levels of influenza drop significantly during the school holidays. This is widely published.

Keeping schools open is infecting all our children, who are infecting their parents, who are infecting their grandparents. Grandparents need hospital care. We don't have hospital beds because patients need at least 1 week on a ventilator and we dont have enough.

The reason he kept schools open initially is because he wanted this 'herd immunity'. He wanted it to spread so that 60% get infected, but he didn't do the maths. Every single other country is in shut down. 

Two weeks time, our loved ones are going to be getting poorly precisely because we let large events continue and kept the schools open. I'm sorry thats all I can say. I am not telling you this to scaremonger. I want you to try to keep your loved ones safe. 

Our government has made a very very very terrible mistake. He wont pay for it as much for it as we will because he can pay to put his parents in specialist beds. Have you noticed all the celebs saying they've had the test? They can pay for it. Their loved ones are safe because they know they have it and can self isolate. They can tell their loved ones there is a high risk, and their loved ones will stop mingling and infecting their friends and families.

You are in the denial phase, then you you will move to the anger phase, and then there will be ..stoicism maybe? I am altering between that and absolute irrepressible terror. That's where I'm at, as I sit here burning up and praying to a god I dont believe in, that I havent infected my sick COPD stricken father on sunday when I didnt know I had the virus. My dad is moving 150 miles away to be with his wife's family and I felt like I was saying goodbye already. He was already self isolating. I feel he would have been safe if I had not gone to say goodbye to him. My sister was there too, she had the little cough. She works in schools like me. When she gets the fever, she is going to want to curl up and scream for it not to be true, because like me she loves our dad dearly.


----------



## ZoeM

lorilu said:


> Has this been posted in this thread yet?


@lorilu Thank you for sharing this. If only one person sees it and changes their minds about going out, it could save someone's life. My friend is saving lives today, she has been sending vulnerable staff home from school, she is sending home staff who have vulnerable people at home. She is saving their lives, I am so proud of her.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Billbailey said:


> That's interesting. On my local community page I have a thread where I'm putting together all the information that can be trusted (as far as I can tell) in an attempt to counter all the nonsense floating around FB and Twitter. Would this be a good source to add to it?


Well, hes got 501k subs and is a bit of a Youtube legend. His channel was created in 2007. Hes a retired Nurse teacher with a PHD. I think hes very good, he does daily videos sometimes twice a day. His channel is Dr John Campbell


----------



## raysmyheart

Hi. I am in the Northeast United States.
Beginning today in my state no restaurant may allow diners to "eat in", and self-serve food bars at markets are shut down. However, takeout food is allowed.

My part-time work in a store has shortened operating hours leaving only managers to work for the next two weeks. My full-time work at another store is staying open as we sell foodstuffs, toiletries, cleaning supplies, paper products. 
Schools are shut down throughout my state for the next three weeks. Most colleges and universities are going to on-line classes to finish out the semester.

These restrictions and reductions have happened very suddenly, One week ago, I would not have thought these restrictions would have been put in place.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> I presume you meant county lines which means drug trafficking.. Which is criminal.. I don't see what you are getting at..


Of course I did, autocorrected by phone
Well done for scoring another point


----------



## Cleo38

At my workplace we are now all working from home until further notice, customer facing staff now have their guidelines but emergencies will still be dealt with although procedures are in place for those who are self isolating, vulnerable, etc (I work for a water company). But speaking to my sister last night (who takes statements for the police) they haven't been given any advice & are still expected to make home visits putting themselves & the other people at risk. I find that unbelievable. She asked about doing this over the phone but her boss didn't really now & said he would find out ….. what a shambles! I might moan about certain things at my place but they have been very proactive & provided us with daily updates of what is happening. 

There is still uncertainty regarding projects that are now been delayed & I am sure there will be redundancies or we will be told to take unpaid leave (which is obviously a massive worry) but luckily when I feel it's all getting to me my sister has been a great support, & hopefully I am to her.

I've not been near anyone for nearly week so am going to see my mum on Friday as she is suffering from not being able to get out & about (as well as her health problems). Whilst my mum is being sensible & avoiding certain places she is still meeting with friends to go for a walk (weather permitting) but not seeing anyone at all is just not an option for her as she is a very sociable person …. unlike myself who self isolates as part of my normal life!


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Cleo38

Hahahahaha, @Magyarmum that will be me!!! Not that I look like pic 1 but can certainly look like pic 2 soon as am working from home now so am constantly going to the fridge seeing what I can eat


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Now my Fat Club is cancelled, I fear for my weight loss! Must only eat dust...or I’ll be back to picture 2 in no time at all.


----------



## PawsOnMe

Anyone else having to self isolate through illness atm? 

My brother who lives with me had a temp and has been coughing and feeling generally unwell for the past week so following with the criteria for self isolation both my mum and I are self isolating in the house. 

My aunt started with a fever yesterday and has developed a dry hacking cough overnight so her whole family (uncle, 2 cousins and their boyfriends) are all self isolating in the same house. 

I've woken up with my throat swollen with lumpy tonsils and I feel like poop warmed over . Its probably a cold but it has me hoping I dont get the virus on top of that!


----------



## rona

PawsOnMe said:


> Anyone else having to self isolate through illness atm?
> 
> My brother who lives with me had a temp and has been coughing and feeling generally unwell for the past week so following with the criteria for self isolation both my mum and I are self isolating in the house.
> 
> My aunt started with a fever yesterday and has developed a dry hacking cough overnight so her whole family (uncle, 2 cousins and their boyfriends) are all self isolating in the same house.
> 
> I've woken up with my throat swollen with lumpy tonsils and I feel like poop warmed over . Its probably a cold but it has me hoping I dont get the virus on top of that!


Wishing you all a speedy recovery


----------



## purringcats

A friend of mine is on the vulnerable list due to long term multiple health problems and my friends carer has been great organising food and supply deliveries etc for my friend because my friend will be taking the Governments advice to isolate for 12 weeks and my friends carer will carry on until told otherwise, visiting my friend on a daily basis.


----------



## mrs phas

Son now has
Just man flu though
Back to work tomorrow
But
As he works two jobs in different public venues, who knows?


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Son now has
> Just man flu though
> Back to work tomorrow
> But
> As he works two jobs in different public venues, who knows?


How does he know it's man flu? Thought you were supposed to self isolate if you get the symptoms?

Bit irresponsible don't you think?


----------



## ZoeM

@PawsOnMe That is how the virus started with me. You will need to self isolate with him lovely xx


----------



## PawsOnMe

ZoeM said:


> @PawsOnMe That is how the virus started with me. You will need to self isolate with him lovely xx


How are you feeling now? 
My brother, my mum and I are all self isolating since we live together. X


----------



## kimthecat

Hope everyone who is ill are feeling better. I decided to cancel my infusion treatments for RA and leave it a couple of months and see how things pan out.


----------



## Jesthar

Well, my department have been told to work from home for the forseeable if we can. We were also told we could take whatever extra of our regular IT equipment that would be useful - I've never seen so many laptop docks and monitors openly leaving the building without security batting an eyelid!

I stayed in the office yesterday as I have a kick-ass desktop for my job and the work I'm doing right now is much easier to do on it than on my laptop at home - and, to be honest, once everyone had cleared out it was as good as self-isolation anyway... Brought my main monitor and a few other things home with me now, though. VERY glad I recently upgraded my home broadband to unlimited!


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Hope everyone who is ill are feeling better. I decided to cancel my infusion treatments for RA and leave it a couple of months and see how things pan out.


My step-mother was in hospital getting an infusion yesterday, she said it left her feeling really vulnerable.


----------



## DolomiTTe

I'm currently in self isolation with my husband as we both developed symptoms on Friday. We're on the mend (apart from the lingering cough that I believe can last for a few weeks), and I'm being allowed back to work on Monday. Can't come soon enough, as I'm climbing the walls, being confined to the house. Upcycled a table in the garden yesterday while it was sunny, but it's a grey drizzly day today so I'm stuck in with daytime TV


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> Well, my department have been told to work from home for the forseeable if we can. We were also told we could take whatever extra of our regular IT equipment that would be useful - I've never seen so many laptop docks and monitors openly leaving the building without security batting an eyelid!
> 
> I stayed in the office yesterday as I have a kick-ass desktop for my job and the work I'm doing right now is much easier to do on it than on my laptop at home - and, to be honest, once everyone had cleared out it was as good as self-isolation anyway... Brought my main monitor and a few other things home with me now, though. VERY glad I recently upgraded my home broadband to unlimited!


Our IT system at work is dreadful so working from home is actually easier!


----------



## lorilu

So worried for you all who are reporting illness. xxxxxx


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Well, my department have been told to work from home for the forseeable if we can. We were also told we could take whatever extra of our regular IT equipment that would be useful - I've never seen so many laptop docks and monitors openly leaving the building without security batting an eyelid!
> 
> I stayed in the office yesterday as I have a kick-ass desktop for my job and the work I'm doing right now is much easier to do on it than on my laptop at home - and, to be honest, once everyone had cleared out it was as good as self-isolation anyway... Brought my main monitor and a few other things home with me now, though. VERY glad I recently upgraded my home broadband to unlimited!


We have been advised to work from home too, but I'm gutted that I can't get my double monitor setup to work. Should be able to attach my VGA monitor to my laptop, but the Citrix environment is having a fit when I try.

It's sooooo much easier with two monitors.


----------



## Happy Paws2




----------



## Happy Paws2

DolomiTTe said:


> I'm currently in self isolation with my husband as we both developed symptoms on Friday. We're on the mend (apart from the lingering cough that I believe can last for a few weeks), and I'm being allowed back to work on Monday. Can't come soon enough, as I'm climbing the walls, being confined to the house. Upcycled a table in the garden yesterday while it was sunny, but it's a grey drizzly day today so I'm stuck in with daytime TV


Glad your both feeling better


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> How does he know it's man flu? Thought you were supposed to self isolate if you get the symptoms?
> 
> Bit irresponsible don't you think?


If you read previously, he's been self isolating since last Wednesday, nothing progressed beyond manflu, he has no other underlying symptoms, his OH didn't isolate, neither did her, primary age son, neither have shown symptoms
Read the thread before making accusations in future please


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> If you read previously, he's been self isolating since last Wednesday, nothing progressed beyond manflu, he has no other underlying symptoms, his OH didn't isolate, neither did her, primary age son, neither have shown symptoms
> Read the thread before making accusations in future please


Apologies if I don't know the minutiae of your family's life


----------



## Dave S

People are getting daft now - just been to the local shops and there were about 6 persons outside the chemist whilst there were 2 - 3 customers inside. They were waiting for someone to leave before the next one goes in.
Then what - into Tesco or the Co-Op to get food shopping and mixing with all the shoppers inside?
Surely defeats the purpose of the object.

Does not make sense to me.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Apologies if I don't know the minutiae of your family's life


Except this information IS on the thread, I even got picked up, several times, because of mum worrying and being angry re his OH and her son NOT self isolating
So yes, had you read the thread you'd now this minute bit of minutiae
Also that I have a son that was "irresponsible" and flew to Japan on SUNDAY (this is also on this thread)
He's now in Osaka, having bullet trained from Hiroshima and reports everything as normal
People going out, markets heaving, bars and resteraunts busy
NO panic buying or PANIC reporting
Few more in masks but it's a much more populous and busy city

Mainly down to Japan quarantining the whole North Island, when the cruise ship docked

So yeah, read before accusing

Edit for noticing spelling, before I get picked up on that too


----------



## O2.0

The thread is 60 pages long. I commend anyone who has read every post in detail!


----------



## ZoeM

@PawsOnMe I am youngish (45) and no related health conditions. My temp has come down a bit today and I am feeling a little better. Trying to write user guides for my apprentice who is holding our school's IT system in his hands at the moment. I am a St John Ambo volunteer and have been told we are likely to get asked if we can assist. I figured at least I'll be part of the new immune Super Race so I can not bat an eyelid at being coughed in the face haha.

You hang in there, its a worrying time. Much love xx


----------



## ZoeM

Dave S said:


> People are getting daft now - just been to the local shops and there were about 6 persons outside the chemist whilst there were 2 - 3 customers inside. They were waiting for someone to leave before the next one goes in.
> Then what - into Tesco or the Co-Op to get food shopping and mixing with all the shoppers inside?
> Surely defeats the purpose of the object.
> 
> Does not make sense to me.


People shouldnt be going out unless it is absolutely essential. They will be fine, but they are putting their oldies at risk. This is what people urgently need to understand. Please stay away yourself xx


----------



## mrs phas

O2.0 said:


> The thread is 60 pages long. I commend anyone who has read every post in detail!


Learn the song , before jumping on the bandwagon
Or,
Risk ending up looking like John Redwood, in a Welsh assembly meeting

60 pages or not I will defend myself AND my family from those who make baseless accusations, in public

Edit for spelling again, blame fat fingers


----------



## lorilu

ZoeM said:


> People shouldnt be going out unless it is absolutely essential. They will be fine, but they are putting their oldies at risk. This is what people urgently need to understand. Please stay away yourself xx


Dear ZoeM can you (and others reporting illness in this thread) tell us what symptoms you first experienced? I know it can be different for everyone but it might be helpful. Last night I went to bed with a tickle in my lungs and it is still there this morning. No cough or fever, just this disturbing tickle.. I've called our local hotline, reported my symptoms and they take the info and a nurse will call me back. I am in the northeast US and, in my area, there is only one CONFIRMED case so far. But we don't have tests here yet so who knows how many actually are truly ill.

The hotline takes your symptoms, age and a brief case history. I did mention that I am just getting over a mild head cold (stuffy nose no cough) and that I have GAD which I do not take medication for.

My work is on shut down anyway and I have spoken to my boss.

It's hard not to be scared though. I have everything I need at home, food for myself and the cats that will last several weeks and adequate TP (because I always keep adequate TP n the house having grown up in a home where we frequently ran out)


----------



## mrs phas

ZoeM said:


> People shouldnt be going out unless it is absolutely essential. They will be fine, but they are putting their oldies at risk. This is what people urgently need to understand. Please stay away yourself xx


Staying in is not mandatory, at this time
Hence why I was lambasted for being angry that, a week ago, my son's oh and her son didn't self isolate
I'm sure if Boris the butcher declares Marshall law and makes everyone stay indoors or face fines, mostly, they will
You'll always get the 'ard uns, though, like speeders or thieves etc that think the law doesn't mean them


----------



## Cleo38

mrs phas said:


> Learn the song , before jumping on the bandwagon
> Or,
> Risk ending up looking like John Redwood, in a Welsh assembly meeting
> 
> 60 pages or not I will defend myself AND my family from those who make baseless accusations, in public
> 
> Edit for spelling again, blame fat fingers


Doesn't your profile advise to take a chill pill & relax?! 

You posted about illness & people took it a certain way .... you just had to correct them nicely


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> Learn the song , before jumping on the bandwagon
> Or,
> Risk ending up looking like John Redwood, in a Welsh assembly meeting


Don't know what song or bandwagon you're talking about, nor do I know who John Redwood is. But true, I have not read the whole thread carefully 

I was just pointing out that it's a long thread, and it's understandable that it would be hard to keep up.

I hope your son is feeling better now.

Best wishes to everyone on the thread not feeling well.

We're in the height of allergy season right now, Our cars are covered in pollen in the morning. It's an awkward time to have the sniffles, that's for sure!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I`m concerned where the all community/district nurses are going to come from! Mum is hopefully coming home today fingers crossed as she was supposed to be coming home yesterday. I have to arrange her blood test for three days time. Mum is housebound at the moment so a DN has been coming to take bloods. I cant get through on the line and it occurs to me the hospital who perform blood tests are full everyday of mainly the over 70s waiting for blood tests, how on the earth will there be enough DN to do home visits? The phlebotomists who take the blood in the clinic can obviously do home visits but there is only two of them!


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Edit for noticing spelling, before I get picked up on that too


You missed a couple :Angelic


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> Doesn't you profile advise to take a chill pill & relax?!  You posted about illness & people took it a certain way .... you just had to correct them nicely


Once, twice, even thrice, yes I totally agree with you
But
Waking every morning to one or another, they know who they are, picking apart me or my family, or assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, or they know better, which, sometimes, they do, and I acknowledge that,
Makes one feel like it's just a little personal and only just the right side of bullying
(No names, they know)
So, having tried politeness and tact, I'm now over it
They can't be bothered to do research, even taking i, the iketime to read a thread properly, then no more Mrs nice phas, especially where calling my family out is concerned


----------



## mrs phas

O2.0 said:


> Don't know what song or bandwagon you're talking about, nor do I know who John Redwood is. But true, I have not read the whole thread carefully
> 
> I was just pointing out that it's a long thread, and it's understandable that it would be hard to keep up.
> 
> I hope your son is feeling better now.
> 
> Best wishes to everyone on the thread not feeling well.
> 
> We're in the height of allergy season right now, Our cars are covered in pollen in the morning. It's an awkward time to have the sniffles, that's for sure!


I was merely replying to your post, none of my posts, or the subsequent reaction, was directed towards you at all


----------



## Cleo38

mrs phas said:


> Once, twice, even thrice, yes I totally agree with you
> But
> Waking every morning to one or another, they know who they are, picking apart me or my family, or assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, or they know better, which, sometimes, they do, and I acknowledge that,
> Makes one feel like it's just a little personal and only just the right side of bullying
> (No names, they know)
> So, having tried politeness and tact, I'm now over it
> They can't be bothered to do research, even taking i, the iketime to read a thread properly, then no more Mrs nice phas, especially where calling my family out is concerned


It's a comment on a thread, not an attack …. there are things to get upset about atm but a comment taken out of context really isn't one of them


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> You missed a couple :Angelic


point proven :Bag


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> It's a comment on a thread, not an attack …. there are things to get upset about atm but a comment taken out of context really isn't one of them


Not comment,
Comments (obvs not all by @MilleD, hers was the metaphoric straw, unfortunately)
Had this been the only one I might not have been defensive, just explained the situation
But your right, of course
Bigger things to worry about in RL

@MilleD I hereby apologise that I took your comment as being the last straw,
I should've been kinder in my reply
Unfortunately
yours was just the last, in a long list, over a few similar threads, by a very small, in many ways, number of people

I will endeavour, to remember, to use my kind tone in future, to all, however small they may be
As my mother always said
You kill more wasps/flies with honey, than vinegar.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Not comment,
> Comments (obvs not all by @MilleD, hers was the metaphoric straw, unfortunately)
> Had this been the only one I might not have been defensive, just explained the situation
> But your right, of course
> Bigger things to worry about in RL
> 
> @MilleD I hereby apologise that I took your comment as being the last straw,
> I should've been kinder in my reply
> Unfortunately
> yours was just the last, in a long list, over a few similar threads, by a very small, in many ways, number of people
> 
> I will endeavour, to remember, to use my kind tone in future, to all, however small they may be
> As my mother always said
> You kill more wasps/flies with honey, than vinegar.


Apology accepted 

I shall endeavour to try to read threads better in the future. It's difficult if you aren't following them as they grow and come back and there are another 10 pages, so I may not get everything.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I know this is an emotive topic, we have a lot of anxious people, but please lets all be kinder and support each other.
PF Community has a lot to offer in terms of contact with others where physical contact is not available, it's a lifeline to many, so let's nurture it and use the forums for that purpose.
Love to all, pray that we all stay safe.


----------



## SbanR

O2.0 said:


> The thread is 60 pages long. I commend anyone who has read every post in detail!


And remembering every detail


----------



## ZoeM

The head of the coronavirus outbreak team has the virus, he has put on twitter. He said there is a lot of it in westminster. Those guys are lucky if they get it now while there are Intensive care beds available and they can pay people to be prioritised. When people get very poorly, they need a week in an intensive care bed getting ventilation to let their lungs recover. That's all the doctors can do.

I have moved from a dry cough now to an occasional productive cough. I am getting pain in the side and back the same I had when I got bacterial pneumonia after swine flu. The fever is very low now. Trying to stay hydrated.


----------



## MilleD

ZoeM said:


> The head of the coronavirus outbreak team has the virus, he has put on twitter. He said there is a lot of it in westminster. Those guys are lucky if they get it now while there are Intensive care beds available and they can pay people to be prioritised. When people get very poorly, they need a week in an intensive care bed getting ventilation to let their lungs recover. That's all the doctors can do.
> 
> I have moved from a dry cough now to an occasional productive cough. I am getting pain in the side and back the same I had when I got bacterial pneumonia after swine flu. The fever is very low now. Trying to stay hydrated.


Have you been tested then?


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> My step-mother was in hospital getting an infusion yesterday, she said it left her feeling really vulnerable.


That was brave of her. Sometimes you have no choice. i hope she is feeling ok today. It was having the blood tests done before each infusion and after , that also put me off. Its in the main part of the building near the entrance. The waiting room is open to other people passing through to other departments.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> I know this is an emotive topic, we have a lot of anxious people, but please lets all be kinder and support each other.
> PF Community has a lot to offer in terms of contact with others where physical contact is not available, it's a lifeline to many, so let's nurture it and use the forums for that purpose.
> Love to all, pray that we all stay safe.


Nice post , I was going to re- tweet it but then realised I was on PF !:Hilarious
I haven't read all the posts , I don't have the concentration . Even if I did , I wouldn't remember what was in them


----------



## urbantigers

kimthecat said:


> That was brave of her. Sometimes you have no choice. i hope she is feeling ok today. It was having the blood tests done before each infusion and after , that also put me off. Its in the main part of the building near the entrance. The waiting room is open to other people passing through to other departments.


I am currently undergoing a series of 6 lidocaine infusions which have to be 2 weeks apart. I had the 5th last Friday (ironically theatre was cancelled due to a burst water pipe and they should have rang to tell me - they didn't so I was the only one who turned up! They went ahead as had water in recovery area). Last one is 30th March. I hope it goes ahead as it can't just be re-arranged for another time and I doubt I'll get another chance to have the whole 6.


----------



## Bisbow

Oh dear, oh dear oh dear
What a calamity 

The Eurovision song contest has gone by the wayside
What do I do with myself now


----------



## mrs phas

Will BJ follow NI, Wales and Scotland and close English schools later?


----------



## catz4m8z

Bisbow said:


> Oh dear, oh dear oh dear
> What a calamity
> 
> The Eurovision song contest has gone by the wayside
> What do I do with myself now


NOOOOOOO! the humanity!!:Wideyed:Nailbiting:Arghh
:Hilarious

Work is very strange right now. People are heeding advice and staying away from A&E, Drs are pushing discharges and getting into 'batten down the hatches' mode so wehave empty beds for the first time in ages. We are all trying to update any training we might need for when it properly kicks off.
I dont want to be that person in the horror film who says 'its quiet.....too quiet' but thats kinda how it feels!:Hilarious


----------



## ZoeM

NB I am updating this as and when I can to reflect what symptoms are coming and going.

@MilleD The ambulance service who attended my friend informed them, you only get the test if you are admitted to hospital. 111 said I have the virus and to self-isolate.

@lorilu Please don't worry about us we are young and healthy. It is those people we inadvertently pass it to that will get sick -_ people over the age of 70, diabetic friends, COPD parents, those with high blood pressure and heart disease. (All these sorts of people _*who get infected* h_ave between 5-20% chance of dying - according to the World Health Organisation who are collating everything from round the world)_

@lorilu I am going to scare people with the symptoms because they will realise their 'cold', 'off feeling', 'slight cough' means they have had the virus and visited their friends and family who have health conditions. The incubation period is between 2-12 days. Waiting is going to be scary. Most children have -no- symptoms, they won't tell you they feel unwell because they don't. This is why closing schools is so important. Not to protect the kids, but to protect their grandparents who have these illnesses I mentioned.

I hope this helps people to realise they have had or have the virus. You can get it, you will get it, you may already have had it if you live in London.

Saturday - I had a *very slight dry cough*. I am talking so slight, I was clearing my throat once.. every 2.. 3 hours. I told myself, definitely nothing. How many people have you heard slightly clearing their throats outside? It is everywhere.

Sunday - I went and saw family who are moving miles from me. I continued to have this ridiculously nothing cough. Knowing I work in schools, I washed my hands continuously and didnt cough near my family. *Its not even a half a second cough*, its* not even a cough you take a breath in fo*r. I think this is why it also causes a *sore throa*t. I can not stress enough how mild this 'cough' is. *I felt absolutely 100%*

Monday - I felt a little off, not even as bad as before you think you're getting a cold. I had a* little tightness in my chest* and the *cough *was just.. every hour or so. I ensured anyone who came into my office waited at the door. I have been THE most cautious in my school, and I still have contracted it. I was wiping everything with antibac wipes and cleaning door handles many times a day, I was washing my hands 5 times a day at work and not touching door handles walking round school. Oh, I felt a* little out of breath *walking around but thought it was my anxiety.

Monday night - 10pm - My face felt hot. I took my temperature.. it was 0.5 degrees above my normal temperature. By 10.30 I felt like I was burning up. My skin was dry and chest and back warm to the touch. My temperature was 1.2 degrees above normal (about 38.2). I felt rough but I had swine flu ten years ago and it wasn't as bad as that. I took some paracetamol and had to change PJs in the night. *Mild fever*

Tuesday - Obviously I called in sick and said I had the *cough and fever *(which defines the virus). I felt warm all day, but pottering around and managed to work for an hour.

Wednesday - Temperature is 0.5 degrees up or the most part. Managed to work most of the day. I have a more productive cough now, a bit phlegmy, like I cough once an hour but nothing that takes my breath away. I have a little pain in my back but may be because I have been sat up in bed working.

Thursday - Was very feverish in the night. Productive cough seems to have gone. Have had bouts of fever all day, but not so high. Headache, pain in back nagging but not bothering me at all so likely nothing. i went on 111 website wondering if the back/lung pain was an issue but not mentioned. They diagnosed with flu because I haven't been abroad. Even NHS direct are needing to catch up. I dont feel half as bad as I did with flu. My face is very flaky, I've never had dry skin.

Friday - Woke up feeling really good, no fever, slight breathiness and nagging ache on left hand side / back. I had been fever free all night. Fever struck again this afternoon, pulse of 100 lying down doing nothing, respiration rate up. Temp spiked up to 38.3. Getting very breathless just lying down when the fever hits.

*Please note*
My friend has the virus - she just had *cough and fever*
My other friend has the virus - she had a *headache and now has the cough*
My other friend's three kids have the virus - *none have a fever*, one has a *mild cough*, one is a *little chesty, *and the other merely *vomited.*

This is why other countries shut down, because nobody knows they have it, and they are giving it to their loved ones who are going to get pneumonia. I'm sorry..

Getting your head around the fact that next week is going to be unlike any week you've ever experienced is scary and upsetting. Denial has been dangerous but our government should have MADE us lockdown.

I can't even say how sorry I am when you guys realise how bad things are / going to be.


----------



## Cully

ZoeM said:


> @MilleD The ambulance service who attended my friend informed them, you only get the test if you are admitted to hospital. 111 said I have the virus and to self-isolate.
> 
> @lorilu Please don't worry about us we are young and healthy. It is those people we inadvertently pass it to that will get sick -_ people over the age of 70, diabetic friends, COPD parents, those with high blood pressure and heart disease. (All these sorts of people _*who get infected* h_ave between 5-20% chance of dying - according to the World Health Organisation who are collating everything from round the world)_
> 
> @lorilu I am going to scare people with the symptoms because they will realise their 'cold', 'off feeling', 'slight cough' means they have had the virus and visited their friends and family who have health conditions. The incubation period is between 2-12 days. Waiting is going to be scary. Most children have -no- symptoms, they won't tell you they feel unwell because they don't. This is why closing schools is so important. Not to protect the kids, but to protect their grandparents who have these illnesses I mentioned.
> 
> I hope this helps people to realise they have had or have the virus. You can get it, you will get it, you may already have had it if you live in London.
> 
> Saturday - I had a *very slight dry cough*. I am talking so slight, I was clearing my throat once.. every 2.. 3 hours. I told myself, definitely nothing. How many people have you heard slightly clearing their throats outside? It is everywhere.
> 
> Sunday - I went and saw family who are moving miles from me. I continued to have this ridiculously nothing cough. Knowing I work in schools, I washed my hands continuously and didnt cough near my family. *Its not even a half a second cough*, its* not even a cough you take a breath in fo*r. I think this is why it also causes a *sore throa*t. I can not stress enough how mild this 'cough' is. *I felt absolutely 100%*
> 
> Monday - I felt a little off, not even as bad as before you think you're getting a cold. I had a* little tightness in my chest* and the *cough *was just.. every hour or so. I ensured anyone who came into my office waited at the door. I have been THE most cautious in my school, and I still have contracted it. I was wiping everything with antibac wipes and cleaning door handles many times a day, I was washing my hands 5 times a day at work and not touching door handles walking round school. Oh, I felt a* little out of breath *walking around but thought it was my anxiety.
> 
> Monday night - 10pm - My face felt hot. I took my temperature.. it was 0.5 degrees above my normal temperature. By 10.30 I felt like I was burning up. My skin was dry and chest and back warm to the touch. My temperature was 1.2 degrees above normal (about 38.2). I felt rough but I had swine flu ten years ago and it wasn't as bad as that. I took some paracetamol and had to change PJs in the night. *Mild fever*
> 
> Tuesday - Obviously I called in sick and said I had the *cough and fever *(which defines the virus). I felt warm all day, but pottering around and managed to work for an hour.
> 
> Wednesday - Temperature is 0.5 degrees up or the most part. Managed to work most of the day. I have a more productive cough now, a bit phlegmy, like I cough once an hour but nothing that takes my breath away. I have a little pain in my back but may be because I have been sat up in bed working.
> 
> *Please note*
> My friend has the virus - she just had *cough and fever*
> My other friend has the virus - she had a *headache and now has the cough*
> My other friend's three kids have the virus - *none have a fever*, one has a *mild cough*, one is a *little chesty, *and the other merely *vomited.*
> 
> This is why other countries shut down, because nobody knows they have it, and they are giving it to their loved ones who are going to get pneumonia. I'm sorry..
> 
> Getting your head around the fact that next week is going to be unlike any week you've ever experienced is scary and upsetting. Denial has been dangerous but our government should have MADE us lockdown.
> 
> I can't even say how sorry I am when you guys realise how bad things are / going to be.


Thanks. We need to know exactly what we're up against and what the symptoms are. Obviously not the same for everyone.


----------



## Siskin

Just spotted a news item which says that all uk schools will close as of Friday


----------



## purringcats

Schools in Northern Ireland are closed as of immediate effect. Schools in England, Wales and Scotland are closing Friday when schools finish until further notice. All exams in May and June have been cancelled. Private Schools, Boarding Schools, Nurseries and early year schools are being encouraged to do the same.


----------



## Siskin

Link

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tly-saying-350bn-loangrant-package-not-enough


----------



## mrs phas

ZoeM said:


> @MilleD The ambulance service who attended my friend informed them, you only get the test if you are admitted to hospital. 111 said I have the virus and to self-isolate.
> 
> @lorilu Please don't worry about us we are young and healthy. It is those people we inadvertently pass it to that will get sick -_ people over the age of 70, diabetic friends, COPD parents, those with high blood pressure and heart disease. (All these sorts of people _*who get infected* h_ave between 5-20% chance of dying - according to the World Health Organisation who are collating everything from round the world)_
> 
> @lorilu I am going to scare people with the symptoms because they will realise their 'cold', 'off feeling', 'slight cough' means they have had the virus and visited their friends and family who have health conditions. The incubation period is between 2-12 days. Waiting is going to be scary. Most children have -no- symptoms, they won't tell you they feel unwell because they don't. This is why closing schools is so important. Not to protect the kids, but to protect their grandparents who have these illnesses I mentioned.
> 
> I hope this helps people to realise they have had or have the virus. You can get it, you will get it, you may already have had it if you live in London.
> 
> Saturday - I had a *very slight dry cough*. I am talking so slight, I was clearing my throat once.. every 2.. 3 hours. I told myself, definitely nothing. How many people have you heard slightly clearing their throats outside? It is everywhere.
> 
> Sunday - I went and saw family who are moving miles from me. I continued to have this ridiculously nothing cough. Knowing I work in schools, I washed my hands continuously and didnt cough near my family. *Its not even a half a second cough*, its* not even a cough you take a breath in fo*r. I think this is why it also causes a *sore throa*t. I can not stress enough how mild this 'cough' is. *I felt absolutely 100%*
> 
> Monday - I felt a little off, not even as bad as before you think you're getting a cold. I had a* little tightness in my chest* and the *cough *was just.. every hour or so. I ensured anyone who came into my office waited at the door. I have been THE most cautious in my school, and I still have contracted it. I was wiping everything with antibac wipes and cleaning door handles many times a day, I was washing my hands 5 times a day at work and not touching door handles walking round school. Oh, I felt a* little out of breath *walking around but thought it was my anxiety.
> 
> Monday night - 10pm - My face felt hot. I took my temperature.. it was 0.5 degrees above my normal temperature. By 10.30 I felt like I was burning up. My skin was dry and chest and back warm to the touch. My temperature was 1.2 degrees above normal (about 38.2). I felt rough but I had swine flu ten years ago and it wasn't as bad as that. I took some paracetamol and had to change PJs in the night. *Mild fever*
> 
> Tuesday - Obviously I called in sick and said I had the *cough and fever *(which defines the virus). I felt warm all day, but pottering around and managed to work for an hour.
> 
> Wednesday - Temperature is 0.5 degrees up or the most part. Managed to work most of the day. I have a more productive cough now, a bit phlegmy, like I cough once an hour but nothing that takes my breath away. I have a little pain in my back but may be because I have been sat up in bed working.
> 
> *Please note*
> My friend has the virus - she just had *cough and fever*
> My other friend has the virus - she had a *headache and now has the cough*
> My other friend's three kids have the virus - *none have a fever*, one has a *mild cough*, one is a *little chesty, *and the other merely *vomited.*
> 
> This is why other countries shut down, because nobody knows they have it, and they are giving it to their loved ones who are going to get pneumonia. I'm sorry..
> 
> Getting your head around the fact that next week is going to be unlike any week you've ever experienced is scary and upsetting. Denial has been dangerous but our government should have MADE us lockdown.
> 
> I can't even say how sorry I am when you guys realise how bad things are / going to be.


Talk about scaremongering and really triggering people
How do YOU know that next week will be unlike any other anyone's ever experienced? How go you know noone of use have been through worse things and times, than a virus?
All very well you posting about yourself, and then, other people's anecdotes
But
How many of you, including yourself, have had the little people in hazmats come swab you, and, got positive results
Or
Is it more that you've been told to self isolate, if you even phoned 111?

Talk about doomsday, you'll be telling us it's all in the book of revelations next


----------



## purringcats

My source https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-uk-schools-to-close-from-friday-11959769


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Took four trips, four days in a row, for me to be able to find chicken breast for Queen Eva. I am we4ll stocked on other meats, and all Mazy cat's specialty meats. But somehow I ran low on her chicken breast without realizing it. I'm now set with that for 5 weeks, though I will attempt to replenish in a couple of weeks to stay on top, as I normally do anyway. I always try to keep a month's supply of everything in my home. I grew up poor and we always ran out of everything. I have a thing about having enough, now.
> 
> . I did not strip the bin, I took two and left two. Every time I tried these past four days the store was crowded with people. Every single day. Just wall to wall people in the store. It's insanity.


I managed to get some chicken thighs for my two this week, so I've put them in the freezer to keep them fresh.


----------



## purringcats

I managed to get the last packet of raw Turkey Breasts for my cat today from Waitrose. There is no raw meat at my local Tesco and food is scarce in the local supermarket stores due to people emptying the stores when they open.

On a brighter note all my home shopping arrived today except one substitute.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Just spotted a news item which says that all uk schools will close as of Friday


Except those of key workers and the vunerable
What's happening with those?
Are schools opening just for them?
Will year 11-13 have to repeat the year and take exams next spring?
What about promised college/uni places, based on predicted grades

Like the curates egg, it's good in parts


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> Will BJ follow NI, Wales and Scotland and close English schools later?


BJ seems to wait and see what other countries are doing and then doing the same, we are always one step behind everyone else.

I just don't trust him to do the right thing at the right time.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Except those of key workers and the vunerable
> What's happening with those?
> Are schools opening just for them?
> Will year 11-13 have to repeat the year and take exams next spring?
> What about promised college/uni places, based on predicted grades
> 
> Like the curates egg, it's good in parts


Special schools here are closed
Independent school here closed.

No idea how Boris is working out things for those with key workers and vulnerable. Lots in the special school and independent are classed as vulnerable.. Both try to stay open even in bad weather although many pupils stay home as the catchment area is huge.
Smaller classes, but lots more contact as many need emotional support.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Except those of key workers and the vunerable
> What's happening with those?
> Are schools opening just for them?
> Will year 11-13 have to repeat the year and take exams next spring?
> What about promised college/uni places, based on predicted grades
> 
> Like the curates egg, it's good in parts


I agree with you. Who is going to look after the young children, especially if the parents are people we most need now like hospital staff.


----------



## havoc

My OH sent this to our kids today 

Dear Valued Customer,

The safety and well-being of you, the customer, and that of our staff has always been our number one priority; this is especially so during the current Coronavirus outbreak.

From the onset of the infection, our policy has been to monitor the latest guidance and advice provided by the World Health Organisation and the Government, and to implement as many of their recommendations as is possible and practical to our sphere of operations. Accordingly, we wish to inform you of 2 important changes to our normal service.

Firstly, as you may be aware, our staff fall into the older demographic and, therefore, are deemed to be an ‘at risk’ group. Accordingly, we’ve made a company-wide decision to allow all of our staff to operate from home. This should not, in any way, change our dealings with you and we remain confident that all future transactions will proceed without difficulty and, in reality, will be transparent to you, the customer. However, for this change to our usual operating procedures to operate smoothly and seamlessly, it is essential that you ensure that your contact details are up-to-date and accurate. We would also be grateful if you could inform us if you are self-isolating since this will enable us to protect the well-being of our staff and other customers.

Secondly, you should be aware that there is a maximum order number on selected products so we can make sure all of our customers still have access to essential products. We appreciate that this may be an inconvenience, however, it is an essential measure to take in order to allow us to manage our stock levels and avoid panic purchases.

To conclude, we would like to thank you for your ongoing support as we work through these challenges.

The Bank of Mum and Dad


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> My OH sent this to our kids today
> 
> Dear Valued Customer,
> 
> The safety and well-being of you, the customer, and that of our staff has always been our number one priority; this is especially so during the current Coronavirus outbreak.
> 
> From the onset of the infection, our policy has been to monitor the latest guidance and advice provided by the World Health Organisation and the Government, and to implement as many of their recommendations as is possible and practical to our sphere of operations. Accordingly, we wish to inform you of 2 important changes to our normal service.
> 
> Firstly, as you may be aware, our staff fall into the older demographic and, therefore, are deemed to be an 'at risk' group. Accordingly, we've made a company-wide decision to allow all of our staff to operate from home. This should not, in any way, change our dealings with you and we remain confident that all future transactions will proceed without difficulty and, in reality, will be transparent to you, the customer. However, for this change to our usual operating procedures to operate smoothly and seamlessly, it is essential that you ensure that your contact details are up-to-date and accurate. We would also be grateful if you could inform us if you are self-isolating since this will enable us to protect the well-being of our staff and other customers.
> 
> Secondly, you should be aware that there is a maximum order number on selected products so we can make sure all of our customers still have access to essential products. We appreciate that this may be an inconvenience, however, it is an essential measure to take in order to allow us to manage our stock levels and avoid panic purchases.
> 
> To conclude, we would like to thank you for your ongoing support as we work through these challenges.
> 
> The Bank of Mum and Dad


That's brilliant!


----------



## lorilu

mrs phas said:


> Except those of key workers and the vunerable
> What's happening with those?
> Are schools opening just for them?
> Will year 11-13 have to repeat the year and take exams next spring?
> What about promised college/uni places, based on predicted grades
> 
> Like the curates egg, it's good in parts


Like you said yourself, no one knows what's to come. Why worry about those things now?


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> That's brilliant!


He gets creative when he has time on his hands


----------



## lullabydream

Ignore previous post.. I had missed read


Siskin said:


> I agree with you. Who is going to look after the young children, especially if the parents are people we most need now like hospital staff.


So as far as I know schools are going to be relied on as a hub. Trying to get all the information now how it's going to work according to my LA.. Sounds like school/kids club type thing but of course. Will get back to this with anymore information.

All depends on amount of staffing ratios etc. 
Am only talking mainstream attendees though in my LA.. Nothing for those who have children who attend special schools. Its not doable. Our respite homes are stretched to the limit now as it is.


----------



## ZoeM

mrs phas said:


> Talk about scaremongering and really triggering people
> How do YOU know that next week will be unlike any other anyone's ever experienced? How go you know noone of use have been through worse things and times, than a virus?
> All very well you posting about yourself, and then, other people's anecdotes
> But
> How many of you, including yourself, have had the little people in hazmats come swab you, and, got positive results
> Or
> Is it more that you've been told to self isolate, if you even phoned 111?
> 
> Talk about doomsday, you'll be telling us it's all in the book of revelations next


They stopped the hazmat suits at least 5 days ago. I know because they went out to my friend with the virus. They said they had ran out of protective gear. They had a mask and gloves. I was shocked that the paramedics weren't being protected. I said I have phoned 111 and told to self isolate because I have the virus.

I'm sorry but I don't need to explain more. I was asked about symptoms and I am telling you what is going on. I watched what happened in China in January because I have an interest in viruses and bacteria being a microbiologist by degree. I chatted via twitter with a guy on the Diamond Princess ship who was in enforced isolation. I have read the World Health Organisation website in a lot of depth and seen how many beds we have per 10,000 people in the country. They monitor things like measles, HIV and Ebola. They monitor threats to life. I suggest you read their website if you want to know how I know this. I'm sorry you are scared.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Ignore previous post.. I had missed read
> 
> So as far as I know schools are going to be relied on as a hub. Trying to get all the information now how it's going to work according to my LA.. Sounds like school/kids club type thing but of course. Will get back to this with anymore information.
> 
> All depends on amount of staffing ratios etc.
> Am only talking mainstream attendees though in my LA.. Nothing for those who have children who attend special schools. Its not doable. Our respite homes are stretched to the limit now as it is.


I suppose it will be better then nothing especially if it frees up key workers. It's a horrendous situation, I'm glad I'm not prime minister it's impossible to please all the people all the time. Everyone who doesn't agree feels that they should have been listened to and they have been slighted.


----------



## kimthecat

urbantigers said:


> I am currently undergoing a series of 6 lidocaine infusions which have to be 2 weeks apart. I had the 5th last Friday (ironically theatre was cancelled due to a burst water pipe and they should have rang to tell me - they didn't so I was the only one who turned up! They went ahead as had water in recovery area). Last one is 30th March. I hope it goes ahead as it can't just be re-arranged for another time and I doubt I'll get another chance to have the whole 6.


Fingers and paws crossed that it goes ahead. You have no choice but to do it .


----------



## havoc

ZoeM said:


> *Please note*
> My friend has the virus - she just had *cough and fever*
> My other friend has the virus - she had a *headache and now has the cough*
> My other friend's three kids have the virus - *none have a fever*, one has a *mild cough*, one is a *little chesty, *and the other merely *vomited.*


So what should we take from this? If you are relatively young, fit and well there's every chance you will hardly be affected so no need to be frightened.
From my own experience, if you are old or vulnerable then the vast majority of those around you do care and are taking every precaution on your behalf. My neighbours have put the whole family in lockdown because two out of three kids are coughing and a bit snuffly, none of them are 'ill' as such - that's how much they care about other people. I don't think they're that unusual. It's the British way to soldier on when you're not well but we've taken on the reasoning behind protecting others and I don't know of anyone who isn't prepared to do the right thing here. Yes there will be a few idiots, we all know one but we don't have to let them near.


----------



## mrs phas

ZoeM said:


> T. I was asked about symptoms and I am telling you what is going on. I watched what happened in China in January because I have an interest in viruses and bacteria being a microbiologist by degree. I chatted via twitter with a guy on the Diamond Princess ship who was in enforced isolation. I have read the World Health Organisation website in a lot of depth and seen how many beds we have per 10,000 people in the country. They monitor things like measles, HIV and Ebola. They monitor threats to life. I suggest you read their website if you want to know how I know this. I'm sorry you are scared.
> 
> https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019


for goodness sake, do you think the rest of the forum are thick or what, anything off the diamond princess is anecdotal, I at least can supply pictures of what japan is like today, as i have a son on the ground there
who is picky with what it releases
hiv and ebola are going tobe rampant in the uk next are they?
scared? not me, even though Im in the vinerable group
but
there are others on here who have been quite vocal in their fears, your over dramitisations are not helping

Strange how WHO havent released how many have died, worldwide, this year of normal seasonal flu,

Anyway youve taken enough of my attention in regard to your predictions of doom



lorilu said:


> Like you said yourself, no one knows what's to come. Why worry about those things now?


because i was asked if i knew, via skype and found the government website, and press releases, woefully lacking in the information
and
lets face it BJ isnt excatly known for his common sense, truthfulness or not doing u turns


----------



## Lurcherlad

ZoeM said:


> The head of the coronavirus outbreak team has the virus, he has put on twitter. He said there is a lot of it in westminster. Those guys are lucky if they get it now while there are Intensive care beds available and they can pay people to be prioritised. When people get very poorly, they need a week in an intensive care bed getting ventilation to let their lungs recover. That's all the doctors can do.
> 
> I have moved from a dry cough now to an occasional productive cough. I am getting pain in the side and back the same I had when I got bacterial pneumonia after swine flu. The fever is very low now. Trying to stay hydrated.


If you think you have pneumonia I would ring 111 or your GP as, untreated, it could turn serious and you might need antibiotics.


----------



## Nonnie

One thing i havent seen mentioned is that the ambulance service is currently at REAP4 (highest pressure level) and not far away from declaring a critical incident. They simply dont have the resources.

My friend is the team leader for a northern service and they are dealing with triple the amount of cases, have staff shortages due to illness, and the 111 service are passing on 4 times the amount of calls that they usually do.

Coupled with the stupid stuff people dial 999 for, our front line services are going to crack soon.


----------



## Siskin

A bit of light relief, today's funnies


----------



## cheekyscrip

Trump was threatening economic war against China.

Threatening taxes and what not.

China where it started managing it well.
Miracle.

While stocks of Europe and US crashed China is going strong.

After the epidemic and panic subside China will be the leading economic power.

Yes, conspiracy theory but...


Hmmm....


----------



## mrs phas

Nonnie said:


> My friend is the team leader for a northern service and they are dealing with triple the amount of cases, have staff shortages due to illness, and the 111 service are passing on 4 times the amount of calls that they usually do.
> 
> Coupled with the stupid stuff people dial 999 for, our front line services are going to crack soon.


so grateful for ALL our frontline staff, from cleaners to consultans and everyone in between
And for the fact that
we have a free NHS, at point of need


----------



## Nonnie

mrs phas said:


> so grateful for ALL our frontline staff
> And the fact that
> we have a free NHS, at point of need


Good for you.

I dont know anyone that doesnt tbh.

I know a fair few that abuse it though.


----------



## mrs phas

cheekyscrip said:


> Trump was threatening economic war against China.
> 
> Threatening taxes and what not.
> 
> China where it started managing it well.
> Miracle.
> 
> While stocks of Europe and US crashed China is going strong.
> 
> After the epidemic and panic subside China will be the leading economic power.
> 
> Yes, conspiracy theory but...
> 
> Hmmm....


your brave 
I darent even say my conspiracy theory in regard to BJ and his slow response
I will whisper it though

he kept it long and slow to, eventually, lower the costs of pensions and disability benefits
because all of those would die first


----------



## cheekyscrip

Today on GBC News our Chief Minister confirmed we are having short supplies of swabs and meds, those paid for are slow to come and Spain is not taking new orders as they provide for themselves first.

Morocco closed frontier. 

Where then we will get anything?

We have no agriculture nor own pharmaceutical companies?

Hmmm...


----------



## Lurcherlad

Just had an email from Tesco:

"To ensure our more vulnerable and elderly customers can shop in-store, we will prioritise one hour every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning between 9-10am (except in our Express stores) and ask that you respect this."

Better give 85 year old Mother-in-Law my shopping list to get my monthly shop while she's in there!


----------



## Cully

cheekyscrip said:


> Trump was threatening economic war against China.
> 
> Threatening taxes and what not.
> 
> China where it started managing it well.
> Miracle.
> 
> While stocks of Europe and US crashed China is going strong.
> 
> After the epidemic and panic subside China will be the leading economic power.
> 
> Yes, conspiracy theory but...
> 
> Hmmm....


That *man* is heading for the Guinness Book of Records regarding the number of negative adjectives used when referring to him.
His name will become an entry in a thesaurus because there are so many synonyms to describe him.:Banghead


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Just had an email from Tesco:
> 
> "To ensure our more vulnerable and elderly customers can shop in-store, we will prioritise one hour every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning between 9-10am (except in our Express stores) and ask that you respect this."
> 
> Better give 85 year old Mother-in-Law my shopping list to get my monthly shop while she's in there!
> 
> View attachment 433711


It wouldn't surprise me if loads of people did exactly that.
Hopefully most requests will be met by a clout round the head with a walking stick!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if loads of people did exactly that.
> Hopefully most requests will be met by a clout round the head with a walking stick!


I can probably guarantee that some scumbags will 

Given someone posted about families where mum, dad and 2 kids each had a trolley load and pretended they weren't related the other day


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Just had an email from Tesco:
> 
> "To ensure our more vulnerable and elderly customers can shop in-store, we will prioritise one hour every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning between 9-10am (except in our Express stores) and ask that you respect this."
> 
> Better give 85 year old Mother-in-Law my shopping list to get my monthly shop while she's in there!
> 
> View attachment 433711


cant get a delivery until end of april
click and collect earliest is 7th april
doesnt matter anyway, cos everything i need is unavailable, even for three weeks time
except, strangely
tesco loo 4 and 9 packs
am i too into conspiracy theories 
or should Inot believe, that theyre deliberately holding some back, for those who can order for 3-5 weeks ahead of time


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if loads of people did exactly that.
> Hopefully most requests will be met by a clout round the head with a walking stick!


So would it be dreadful of me to pick up a couple of extra items for my neighbours who are self isolating for my benefit. I'm afraid I don't see that as so awful. It's not a one way contract, if they are prepared to be inconvenienced for me then I'll do what I can for them.


----------



## willa

My nursery closes on Friday for the foreseeable future ! Who l knows when it’ll reopen.
All this is starting to get scary now London is eerie


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> So would it be dreadful of me to pick up a couple of extra items for my neighbours who are self isolating for my benefit. I'm afraid I don't see that as so awful. It's not a one way contract, if they are prepared to be inconvenienced for me then I'll do what I can for them.


A couple of bits, no 

We know it will be abused though if earlier shenanigans are anything to go by.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> I can probably guarantee that some scumbags will
> 
> Given someone posted about families where mum, dad and 2 kids each had a trolley load and pretended they weren't related the other day


:Jawdrop you couldn't make it up could you!!


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> So would it be dreadful of me to pick up a couple of extra items for my neighbours who are self isolating for my benefit. I'm afraid I don't see that as so awful. It's not a one way contract, if they are prepared to be inconvenienced for me then I'll do what I can for them.


Of course not, you wouldn't abuse the system. But *some* would, and it's those I'm getting at. Not anyone on here I'm sure.
I'm always getting extras for others to save them a trip and they do the same for me.
I live in sheltered housing and nearly everyone here is a pensioner and most have ailments which go with age, so we look after each other if we can.
We're all getting a bit concerned though about having to keep our distance and isolate as shopping will be near impossible for us.


----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> My nursery closes on Friday for the foreseeable future ! Who l knows when it'll reopen.
> All this is starting to get scary now London is eerie


It is eerie in most places now.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Once again can I remind everyone to be respectful of each other on this topic, it's bad enough without squabbles and nit-picking.


----------



## mrs phas

today tesco, aldi, sainsburys all looked like a zombie apocolypse had happened
my BIL in florida, text me to say, theres no ammo to be had any where at all
not sure why they think ammo will be any good to fight corvid 19
maybe its to protect THEIR loo rolls


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> my BIL in florida, text me to say, theres no ammo to be had any where at all
> not sure why they think ammo will be any good to fight corvid 19
> maybe its to protect THEIR loo rolls


Did you not see the reports of the queues at gun shops. Apparently this is not unusual in the USA whenever they fear govt 'interference'. At least that's how it was explained by the American being interviewed - who was not one of the gun toting fraternity.


----------



## Dave S

Well I have been shopping for my elderly mother this evening. I was in the check out queue for 50 minutes to pay for what I could get which was not very much.
I believe the public are going in early and grabbing everything they can as soon as the shops open and the store is not replenishing the shelves throughout the day.
This is also bourne out by the store taking on casual staff to help them restock the shelves overnight - there was a whole load starting this evening.

There is no Calpol available anywhere for new borns, no Aptamil 1 milk for new borns and no Paracetamil. I reckon where I live that there is a hell of a lot of new born babies and the mothers are taking the paracetamol after saying "Not tonight darling, I have a headache"

Seriously though I hope this does not go on for too long as I can see a time when the great shopping public will turn against people seen to be "over-buying" in stores.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Did you not see the reports of the queues at gun shops. Apparently this is not unusual in the USA whenever they fear govt 'interference'. At least that's how it was explained by the American being interviewed - who was not one of the gun toting fraternity.


no i hadnt

another reason to be thankful to live in a country that doesnt see the need to uphold parts of a constitution
that
whilst understandable, and very relevant at the time, is no longer relivant in modern society
but
thats my opinion,I dont live, nor have i been brought up in a gun culture, so maybe i have a british skewed view of the US
have to say, it seems to me , most floridians ( is that the descriptor?) Im friendly with, and, talk to, seem to back the shredded wheat headed man, so i try not to talk politics with them

this country might be crap at times, but, times like this, youve got to love our quaint old ways, despite having a shredded wheat haired clone in charge


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> There is no Calpol available anywhere for new borns, no Aptamil 1 milk for new borns and no Paracetamil. I reckon where I live that there is a hell of a lot of new born babies and the mothers are taking the paracetamol after saying "Not tonight darling, I have a headache"
> 
> Seriously though I hope this does not go on for too long as I can see a time when the great shopping public will turn against people seen to be "over-buying" in stores.


Had an email from ebay today, just a for your information round robin thing
saying they were removing any posts that they consider profiteering on calpol, nappies, baby milk and loo rolls
if the sellers try and repost they will be served with a ban

THAT i applaud


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Had an email from ebay today, just a for your information round robin thing
> saying they were removing any posts that they consider profiteering on calpol, nappies, baby milk and loo rolls
> if the sellers try and repost they will be served with a ban
> 
> THAT i applaud


I got that one too, well done ebay


----------



## Siskin

Dave S said:


> Well I have been shopping for my elderly mother this evening. I was in the check out queue for 50 minutes to pay for what I could get which was not very much.
> I believe the public are going in early and grabbing everything they can as soon as the shops open and the store is not replenishing the shelves throughout the day.
> This is also bourne out by the store taking on casual staff to help them restock the shelves overnight - there was a whole load starting this evening.
> 
> There is no Calpol available anywhere for new borns, no Aptamil 1 milk for new borns and no Paracetamil. I reckon where I live that there is a hell of a lot of new born babies and the mothers are taking the paracetamol after saying "Not tonight darling, I have a headache"
> 
> Seriously though I hope this does not go on for too long as I can see a time when the great shopping public will turn against people seen to be "over-buying" in stores.


Ref the calpol

The following cam fromthe letters page in one of the newspapers.

Lady was talking to her neighbour about being unable to get any calpol, she has three young children and was understandably worried. Neighbour went a bit quiet and then said she could help and went and got a bottle of calpol. She also confessed that in the previous week her and her husband spent a day driving from pharmacy to pharmacy buying calpol and had amassed 30 bottles!


----------



## Siskin

Had a message from my daughter.
The theatre where she works in marketing is closed and has cancelled the next four months of upcoming productions. She's working from home now and has been told to expect an annual leave and pay cut. Casual and contract workers at the theatre are now jobless. She's feeling very worried and scared
I have a sneaky feeling her civil partnership in May will be cancelled


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Ref the calpol
> 
> The following cam fromthe letters page in one of the newspapers.
> 
> Lady was talking to her neighbour about being unable to get any calpol, she has three young children and was understandably worried. Neighbour went a bit quiet and then said she could help and went and got a bottle of calpol. She also confessed that in the previous week her and her husband spent a day driving from pharmacy to pharmacy buying calpol and had amassed 30 bottles!


and therin describes the problem, exactly


----------



## SusieRainbow

mrs phas said:


> Had an email from ebay today, just a for your information round robin thing
> saying they were removing any posts that they consider profiteering on calpol, nappies, baby milk and loo rolls
> if the sellers try and repost they will be served with a ban
> 
> THAT i applaud


I saw hand gel on there for £45 .00 !


----------



## HarlequinCat

mrs phas said:


> Had an email from ebay today, just a for your information round robin thing
> saying they were removing any posts that they consider profiteering on calpol, nappies, baby milk and loo rolls
> if the sellers try and repost they will be served with a ban
> 
> THAT i applaud


That is good, but I'm not sure how well they can enforce it. I can see a calpol being sold on bids and it's at about £12 so far.

I dont know how people can sell these things at such high prices.

Someone else trying to sell 100 pack of paracetamol for £50!

Edited to add: bottle of calpol going for £20


----------



## mrs phas

i know the gov have put in place measures for those with mortgages and private renters
but
what about those who live in HA and SH and may well have jobs lost, or suspended, for the time being?
my on who works two jobs has lost one, due to the pubs being asked to close, they dont need door staff and so his employer has laid them all off, whether they will rehire or fold no one knows
and may well have the other suspended, so far, being an esports venue, its keeping going
his OH works in a chippy
so yesterday, three jobs between them and no benefits
today down to a shakey two
AND
off course,
primary aged child now home and cant be left unattended
all very well BJ saying UC credit will pay those already on benefits from day one
but
new applications are taking even longer than the dreaded 6 weeks
how are they fixed for rent, ct and other bills


----------



## mrs phas

HarlequinCat said:


> That is good, but I'm not sure how well they can enforce it. I can see a calpol being sold on bids and it's at about £12 so far.
> 
> I dont know how people can sell these things at such high prices.
> 
> Someone else trying to sell 100 pack of paracetamol for £50!


i suppose they rely on people reporting them to ebay


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> Had a message from my daughter.
> The theatre where she works in marketing is closed and has cancelled the next four months of upcoming productions. She's working from home now and has been told to expect an annual leave and pay cut. Casual and contract workers at the theatre are now jobless. She's feeling very worried and scared
> I have a sneaky feeling her civil partnership in May will be cancelled


I am so sorry for your daughter and for everyone who is worried and scared about their jobs, health, food situation, loved ones. My daughter is still keeping her business running at the moment but thinks she will have to close soon and lay off the staff. Husband thinks his workplace are going to have a shut down period. I am very worried about my mum, she is back home from hospital but if I get ill I really don't know what I will do. I have had a bit of a cry to my Husband about it tonight but all I can do is try to keep myself safe so she is safe, Lord knows where I`m going to get the food to fed her though and my naughty dog isn't helping my turning his nose up at his normal food. I think he wants chicken in with it but I cant get any so he isn't eating it now. I`ve told him no choice that is all there is and he should be grateful that he`s got food!


----------



## mrs phas




----------



## mrs phas

I know this will annoy some
but
I'm very tempted to go, very temporarily, vegan
It's all the food, that's left, in many supermarkets
It's also the only things being yellow stickered
Better than starving I suppose

(It's a joke, although, factually, true too, can't accept that, scroll past )


----------



## Jesthar

cheekyscrip said:


> Trump was threatening economic war against China.
> 
> Threatening taxes and what not.
> 
> China where it started managing it well.
> Miracle.
> 
> While stocks of Europe and US crashed China is going strong.
> 
> After the epidemic and panic subside China will be the leading economic power.
> 
> Yes, conspiracy theory but...
> 
> Hmmm....


That's mainly because China is an autocratic, authoratarian Communist country, and when the government say "Do this" the orders are followed. Or else.

Europe tends to vary from country to country, but generally the more liberal and more used a populace is to doing whatever it wants when it wants, the less likely they are to follow government requests unless they are subsequently enforced. The British sense of fair play helps, but not always - as we are seeing.

The US has it the worst by far. The very foundations of the country as we know it were based on people being free to do what they liked within very broad bounds, and the rights of the individual taking precedence. As an obvious example, despite the ever increasing mass shooting incidents, they'd rather have those than sacrifice their constitutional right to bear arms (even if they handily ignore the qualifing statement of 'a well regulated militia'). Plus, if the UK is having chaos because of the various closures, imagine how much worse that will be in the US where people can't afford not to work and can get fired for calling in sick. The bulk of US economic system relies on a lot of people working long, hard hours for minimal reward - but those workers are often also the most vulnerable to illness, and also the most likely to carry on working despite being ill - they can't afford to miss work, let alone pay for healthcare. If the US goverment tried the Chinese approach, there would be pandemonium on top of the pandemic! Not that the US would ever jump straight in and build emergency hospitals like China did anyway - no profit in them, so no point.


----------



## lorilu

^^ A bit of sweeping generalization about Americans, that. It's a big country, many of us are law abiding and care more about our health and the health of our neighbors and loved ones than our "rights'". Yes there are many "no government is going to tell me what to do" jerks as well. I have a friend like that, all up in arms because she's been "told" to stay home. I imagine there are people like that in the UK and Europe as well. And every type in between. People vary everywhere, including and especially, in the free world. We're not all gun toting rebels here in the US. Most of us are just..people, trying to get by as best we can. Same as you.


----------



## mrs phas

What's that saying from GBS?
Something about two countries divided by a common language


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-in-europe-by-the-numbers/

*Coronavirus in Europe - by the numbers*


----------



## Elles

For those who think Boris is trying to kill off old people.

3 years ago these were the people accused of destroying the future by voting to leave the EU.

Last year, these were the uncaring capitalists who voted Boris Johnson into power.

You really think he wants to spend billions killing them off to save a few quid in pensions until the next set hit pension age?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Elles said:


> For those who think Boris is trying to kill off old people.
> 
> You really think he wants to spend billions killing them off to save a few quid in pensions until the next set hit pension age?


No I don't think BJ is trying to kill me off, but the same time his not really helping the elderly.


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> For those who think Boris is trying to kill off old people.
> 
> 3 years ago these were the people accused of destroying the future by voting to leave the EU.
> 
> Last year, these were the uncaring capitalists who voted Boris Johnson into power.
> 
> You really think he wants to spend billions killing them off to save a few quid in pensions until the next set hit pension age?


Quite. It's a bit of ridiculous accusation.

The PM can't do right for doing wrong in this. I don't envy him at all.


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> I know this will annoy some
> but
> I'm very tempted to go, very temporarily, vegan
> It's all the food, that's left, in many supermarkets
> It's also the only things being yellow stickered
> Better than starving I suppose
> 
> (It's a joke, although, factually, true too, can't accept that, scroll past )


Why not?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Maybe you'll like it long term? 

Though I heard a rumour there's a shortage of Tofu!


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> I know this will annoy some
> but
> I'm very tempted to go, very temporarily, vegan
> It's all the food, that's left, in many supermarkets


Honestly you couldnt pick a better time to go wholefood vegan.! Not only is the food cheap and filling (also apparently unpopular!LOL) but its much harder to bulk buy fresh produce so less panic buying. Im using this as an opportunity to eat healthier and maybe lose some weight.:Shy



lorilu said:


> I have a friend like that, all up in arms because she's been "told" to stay home. I imagine there are people like that in the UK and Europe as well.


oh, yes. The idiots are everywhere! My friends mother is elderly and insisting on going out shopping everyday despite being told time and again to self isolate by her daughter. She doesnt listen....to her daughter....who is a respiratory nurse specialist working with covid patients!:Banghead
You just cant help some people!


----------



## Gemmaa

I am SO done! Not going shopping until I can get a click and collect/home delivery slot. Even if we have to eat the dog food!

After barely sleeping from worrying about what to expect, I met my OH outside Morrisons at 6:50am, and we had to queue in the, almost full, carpark, and were almost out onto the road.
Total chaos, the worst I've seen so far. No one is grasping the "keep your distance" thing. And our store seems to be one of the few making no attempt to limit people buying everything.
They're also trying to charge £7 for a small pack of *anti-bacterial* wipes :Facepalm.

We only needed a few bits, but when we got to the till we were queuing to the end of an aisle for 30 minutes.
Some wonderful woman was behind us with her child, who coughed all over us and the shelves. She made no attempt to cover her mouth and her mum said nothing.
Had a little moan about it on an FB post, and some brilliant person told me I should have used "kind, calm words and told the mother about it. I shouldn't be overreacting, people will be too scared to cough in public..."
GOOD! I hope they are, if they can't do a basic thing like cover their effing mouth!
:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger:Finger

Got outside and cried. I don't have the temperament for this part of the apocalypse :Hilarious.
Going to self isolate under my bed :Lurking.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Not that the US would ever jump straight in and build emergency hospitals like China did anyway - no profit in them, so no point.


Actually, that's exactly what the US is doing. Hospitals and sort of triage centers popping up in preparedness all over the place. We don't even have a big wave yet here and they've already designated one local hospital for Covid-19 only, other places are building makeshift hospitals in soccer fields and other unused venues.

And I haven't seen anyone worried about ammo or guns, and we're in a pretty gun friendly area.

What I have seen a lot of are offers to help, our local United Way (charity) offering financial help to anyone without wages because of this, churches, restaurants, schools making sure people stay fed. Less vulnerable offering to run errands for those vulnerable... Lots of "how can I help" "what can I do for others" going on. One of many silver linings in this whole mess.


----------



## Bisbow

I am now worried about my daughter
After months of hard work and study she has passed the exams and become a district nurse
I am so proud of her but worried also. This crisis happens just as she qualified
She now goes round peoples houses looking after patients, who knows what she will find
It seems that they are short of hand cleanser and protective bits


----------



## havoc

The CMO and CSO are giving a briefing right now and somebody in the room is doing that clearing the throat cough every thirty seconds.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Quite. It's a bit of ridiculous accusation.
> 
> The PM can't do right for doing wrong in this. I don't envy him at all.


Well he wanted the job and his got it, not that I wanted him to. 
So now it's time for him to put on his Big Boy Pants and prove that the country got it right and really helps the less well off.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well he wanted the job and his got it, not that I wanted him to.
> So now it's time for him to put on his Big Boy Pants and prove that the country got it right and really helps the less well off.


What is it you'd want him to do?


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well he wanted the job and his got it, not that I wanted him to.
> So now it's time for him to put on his Big Boy Pants and prove that the country got it right and really helps the less well off.


For goodness sake, give the man a break
He has been thrown in at the deep end and is doing his best
Jeremy wold have been ten times worse as he is all out for himself and damn everyone else


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> For goodness sake, give the man a break
> He has been thrown in at the deep end and is doing his best
> *Jeremy wold have been ten times worse as he is all out for himself and damn everyone else*


I'd say that would be BJ and the torys


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well he wanted the job and his got it, not that I wanted him to.
> So now it's time for him to put on his Big Boy Pants and prove that the country got it right and really helps the less well off.


I think they are doing the best they can in dire circumstances to be honest.

I wouldn't like to be the person making the decisions right now, that's for sure.


----------



## havoc

I can’t stand the man but even I have to admit he seems to be doing a reasonable job over this. He isn’t trying to make it political and he’s listening/reacting to expert advice.


----------



## MilleD

Bisbow said:


> For goodness sake, give the man a break
> He has been thrown in at the deep end and is doing his best
> Jeremy wold have been ten times worse as he is all out for himself and damn everyone else


You'd think this would be the perfect chance of an all party pull together wouldn't you?


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> You'd think this would be the perfect chance of an all party pull together wouldn't you?


I agree and I wish they would instead of sniping from the sidelines, what on earth is that going to achieve.

I'm not keen on Boris, but I do think he is doing a good job at the moment in the most dire of circumstances. I dare say he didn't expect this to occur when he threw his hat into the ring to beocome prime minister.

I am absolutely sure Jeremy would have floundered around like a stranded fish, he can't make a decision over a simple thing let alone something as serious as this


----------



## MilleD

The table on this looks odd - is it the lack of testing that is making our death rate look high, particularly compared to somewhere like Germany?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105


----------



## ChaosCat

MilleD said:


> The table on this looks odd - is it the lack of testing that is making our death rate look high, particularly compared to somewhere like Germany?
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105


I think so, yes. If only the severe cases are tested the death rate must look higher.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> The table on this looks odd - is it the lack of testing that is making our death rate look high, particularly compared to somewhere like Germany?
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105


Could be, it's hard to say isn't.


----------



## purringcats

I have developed a cough. It started this morning. It is currently not continuous but it is annoying and seems to be building up, getting more frequent. I took my temperature just now which is 36.8. Not panicking at the moment but hopefully the cough won't get any worse and I hope I don't get a temperature? Looks like I will have to stay put for a few days in the hope this cough goes, if not I will isolate myself for the recommended 7 days.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> I think they are doing the best they can in dire circumstances to be honest.
> 
> I wouldn't like to be the person making the decisions right now, that's for sure.


Very true
My personal thoughts, however, are that being an island nation, had the government been proactive, rather reactive, then much of this may, and I emphasis may, have been a little different in the way it's been handled
But, as I said just my opinion and thinking aloud


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> I have developed a cough. It started this morning. It is currently not continuous but it is annoying and seems to be building up, getting more frequent. I took my temperature just now which is 36.8. Not panicking at the moment but hopefully the cough won't get any worse and I hope I don't get a temperature? Looks like I will have to stay put for a few days in the hope this cough goes, if not I will isolate myself for the recommended 7 days.


Any new cough you should really be self isolating.. However you did say you said you are staying put.
Try not to worry! Many people's symptoms should be mild


----------



## O2.0

Are you guys getting the reports there that people can have the virus and be completely asymptomatic? Yet still spread it? 
The news is saying that an outbreak in Massachusetts seems to be linked to many completely asymptomatic at a biotech conference. 

I spent 4 hours yesterday helping distribute food and school supplies, it got in my head a little, I'm not worried about me getting sick, everyone in this house is pretty robust, I was worried about potentially being a carrier and giving it to someone


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> I can't stand the man but even I have to admit he seems to be doing a reasonable job over this. He isn't trying to make it political and he's listening/reacting to expert advice.


I think I would of preferred it if he had listened to the advice from the WHO and followed what other countries were doing. We have been taking the reccomended measure alot later then other places.



ChaosCat said:


> I think so, yes. If only the severe cases are tested the death rate must look higher.


Funnily enough I was speaking to one of our junior Drs about this the other night! He agreed that our lack of general testing was skewing the death rates unnaturally high.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Very true
> My personal thoughts, however, are that being an island nation, had the government been proactive, rather reactive, then much of this may, and I emphasis may, have been a little different in the way it's been handled
> But, as I said just my opinion and thinking aloud


They are never going to please everyone though.

Just over one thing:

"Why aren't they closing the schools - it's irresponsible!"

Then:

"Oh my god, they are closing the schools, what are we going to do!"

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I imagine it's a hugely stressful balancing act between the health of the economy and the health of the, erm health.

Both things can have a severe knock on effect long term.


----------



## MollySmith

I am not a fan of Boris as @Happy Paws2 knows. I think anyone would struggle in this. I felt Gordon Brown spoke with wisdom but he is no longer in the hot seat.


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Very true
> My personal thoughts, however, are that being an island nation, had the government been proactive, rather reactive, then much of this may, and I emphasis may, have been a little different in the way it's been handled
> But, as I said just my opinion and thinking aloud


Yes, agree. There is a a lot of measures coming in but not fully tied up - such as pubs not being able to claim on insurance as the government haven't said they must close. What does happen about exams.. those sorts of worries that need clarity to stop fears. I think they need to lay laws on panic buying somehow.

I can't imagine it's easy to be in Westminster for any politician right now of any party but some forthrightness is good. Maybe it's the manner of it.


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> I think I would of preferred it if he had listened to the advice from the WHO and followed what other countries were doing. We have been taking the reccomended measure alot later then other places.


All countries were on a slightly different part of the infection curve, so just copying what another country is doing isn't always the best course of action.


O2.0 said:


> Are you guys getting the reports there that people can have the virus and be completely asymptomatic? Yet still spread it?
> The news is saying that an outbreak in Massachusetts seems to be linked to many completely asymptomatic at a biotech conference.
> 
> I spent 4 hours yesterday helping distribute food and school supplies, it got in my head a little, I'm not worried about me getting sick, everyone in this house is pretty robust, I was worried about potentially being a carrier and giving it to someone


I think this has been part of what has made the virus so successful.

As someone said - I think maybe @havoc ? - the most successful viruses are those that protect the host and allow further spread. Any virus that immediate kills it's host, kills itself.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Are you guys getting the reports there that people can have the virus and be completely asymptomatic? Yet still spread it?


It's been described as such since the start here. People can have anything from no symptoms through nothing more than a slightly irritating cough to full on cough and fever.

A British couple who were hospitalised in Japan after testing +ve on a cruise ship have described their symptoms. The whole ship were quarantined in their cabins, given thermometers and told to report any fever or persistent cough. They describe their cough as closer to occasional throat clearing which they put down to aircon as they had an inner cabin. The guy's temp spiked ever so slightly a couple of times but was back to normal on next check so again they put this down to their environment.

They're not young - late sixties to mid seventies I'd say, typical cruise customers. They went through a battery of tests in the Japanese hospital and the guy had pneumonia. Treated and recovered.

The numbers who 'probably' have it or have had are likely huge. We are waiting on a test to be developed to check for antibodies rather than the virus, preferably one which can be done by the individual and not need labs. Then we'll get a true picture of the numbers.


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ seems to wait to see what is happening in other countries then later does the same.


----------



## havoc

Or does so as needed here. We are not other countries.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> It's been described as such since the start here.


Unfortunately here the CDC initially said the main form of transmission was from active, symptomatic infections. Not from people who were not (yet) sick. In fact it still says as much on the CDC website:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html









Yet it seems the outbreak in Massachusetts was from people who were not showing symptoms.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> My personal thoughts, however, are that being an island nation, had the government been proactive, rather reactive, then much of this may, and I emphasis may, have been a little different in the way it's been handled
> But, as I said just my opinion and thinking aloud


I honestly think the genie was out of the bottle before we knew it existed.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Unfortunately here the CDC initially said the main form of transmission was from active, symptomatic infections. Not from people who were not (yet) sick. In fact it still says as much on the CDC website:


I think that's correct in that those with symptoms will be coughing the virus out into the environment, onto others, onto their hands etc. Relying on it as a full description of transmission maybe not so much.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think with testing for most things, it’s usually only done when there’s a chance of identifying a problem - either following symptoms or in an at risk group such as with mammograms etc.

Testing everyone randomly for no obvious reason is very wasteful in both time and money.

The resources used to test the whole population could be put to better use such as making ventilators, training staff accordingly and clearing beds etc, which I think is happening right now.

The easiest thing we can do is limit our interactions at the very least, work from home and self isolate if appropriate.

There is fallout from every decision made so things have to be considered carefully.

There is no point in Boris rushing headlong into panic stations. A calm, considered approach based on medical experts’ advice is best imo.


----------



## havoc

There are good reasons why we can take a measured approach, not least that it isn’t hitting children. However sad the fatalities are I do think the response would rightly have been very different if children were badly affected.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> BJ seems to wait to see what is happening in other countries then later does the same.


I am not a bid BJ fan but I am trying to be fair about his actions

I know you hate him but can you not be just a little supportive at a time like this

What would you do in his place, it is easy to sit here and condemn the man when we all need support


----------



## catz4m8z

Lurcherlad said:


> Testing everyone randomly for no obvious reason is very wasteful in both time and money.
> 
> The resources used to test the whole population could be put to better use such as making ventilators, training staff accordingly and clearing beds etc, which I think is happening right now.


I think we would of been better off testing all suspected cases though, not just sending people home and telling them to self isolate. As has been seen in other countries and advised by WHO identifying the spread of the disease and rate of infection is paramount to controlling and mitigating it.
There wont be enough staff or beds to safely treat everybody regardless...the NHS can barely cope with a bad flu season!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Promising studies are being done in a few countries with the old tried and tested anti malaria drug, chloroquine. This sounds like very good news but I haven't heard this mentioned once on the radio or TV news?

An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)
_
"Recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that chloroquine is an effective antiviral therapeutic treatment against Coronavirus Disease 2019. Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay. US CDC research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed. Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions". _

"_Chloroquine can both prevent and treat coronavirus in primate cells (Figure 1 and Figure 2). According to South Korean and China human treatment guidelines, chloroquine is effective in treating COVID-19. Given chloroquine's human safety profile and existence, it can be implemented today in the U.S., Europe and the rest of the world. Medical doctors may be reluctant to prescribe chloroquine to treat COVID-19 since it is not FDA approved for this use. The United States of America and other countries should immediately authorize and indemnify medical doctors for prescribing chloroquine to treat COVID-19. We must explore whether chloroquine can safely serve as a preventative measure prior to infection of COVID-19 to stop further spread of this highly contagious virus."_


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> I am not a bid BJ fan but I am trying to be fair about his actions
> 
> I know you hate him but can you not be just a little supportive at a time like this *NO*
> 
> What would you do in his place, it is easy to sit here and condemn the man when we all need support


I'm not an expert and don't have anyone to advise me, but HE does, and he and his advisers are behind the rest of Europe.


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> I think we would of been better off testing all suspected cases though, not just sending people home and telling them to self isolate. As has been seen in other countries and advised by WHO identifying the spread of the disease and rate of infection is paramount to controlling and mitigating it.
> There wont be enough staff or beds to safely treat everybody regardless...the NHS can barely cope with a bad flu season!


I think I'd just simply like to know if I had, but also WHO aren't insisting without good reason. Even St Peter Vallance said on Twitter that it was his _personal_ preference


----------



## kimthecat

This is interesting . Tescos limiting bottled water . I dont know what they are saying but the man buying was pretty cross.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240376132056342540
Waiting times for delivery here has gone up to a month. 
Pets at home has lots of supplies , no shortage here .


----------



## Cully

I wish all the various threads concerning corona virus could be grouped under one heading. It's hard keeping track of them all now,and by the time you've read all the recent posts you forget which thread you're reading.:Bookworm


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> This is interesting . Tescos limiting bottled water . I dont know what they are saying but the man buying was pretty cross.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240376132056342540


happy with the tap so that's one panic buy that doesn't affect me! What an idiot!


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> happy with the tap so that's one panic buy that doesn't affect me! What an idiot!


In his defence the water tastes pretty awful here , I read somewhere its been recycled through 10 londoners by the time you drink it.
I only drink when I have to take tablets .


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I think I'd just simply like to know if I had, but also WHO aren't insisting without good reason. Even St Peter Vallance said on Twitter that it was his _personal_ preference


It would be my personal preference too but I do understand it isn't best use of resources right now. It will be at a different time and they are gearing up for it.
As for the WHO you have to remember the clue is in the name so what they say is a worldwide generalisation. We have tested way more than many other countries.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> In his defence the water tastes pretty awful here , I read somewhere its been recycled through 10 londoners by the time you drink it.
> I only drink when I have to take tablets .


I'm sure at some point it's been peed out by a dinosaur. That's what treatment plants are for


----------



## Cully

MollySmith said:


> happy with the tap so that's one panic buy that doesn't affect me! What an idiot!


Ah, so you obviously don't live in S.E. Kent then?:Yuck


----------



## purringcats

There is lots of information available here from the World Health Organisation: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=symptoms


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm not an expert and don't have anyone to advise me, but HE does, and he and his advisers are behind the rest of Europe.


Well they don't seem to have made a particularly good job of it do they?
Why would you blindly follow what others are doing, unless they had succeeded? 
You can't shut a whole country down for months on end.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> There is lots of information available here from the World Health Organisation: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=symptoms


Why doesn't that exactly tie up with what it says on the link?

They start off there with Fever, tiredness and dry cough. The dry in the cough is quite important from what I've been reading from other people?

They can't even be consistent with their own information....


----------



## purringcats

This is the latest information on symptoms of the coronavirus from the link I have provided from WHO.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> I wish all the various threads concerning corona virus could be grouped under one heading. It's hard keeping track of them all now,and by the time you've read all the recent posts you forget which thread you're reading.:Bookworm


I do not agree. We have three threads. This one is for general discussion. The one I started is for people to report their symptoms to help others recognize what they might look for, since, as we are finding out, there are many variations. It would get lost in this thread.

The the over 70 Isolation thread deals specifically with those issues. Again, it would get lost in this thread.

I think the three threads should stand as they are.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> I'm sure at some point it's been peed out by a dinosaur. That's what treatment plants are for


I'd rather drink dinosaur pee than our water


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> Why doesn't that exactly tie up with what it says on the link?
> 
> They start off there with Fever, tiredness and dry cough. The dry in the cough is quite important from what I've been reading from other people?
> 
> They can't even be consistent with their own information....


I have updated the post when realising this. WHO are constantly updating things so information changes as they learn more about the virus.


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> I do not agree. We have three threads. This one is for general discussion. The one I started is for people to report their symptoms to help others recognize what they might look for, since, as we are finding out, there are many variations. It would get lost in this thread.
> 
> The the over 70 Isolation thread deals specifically with those issues. Again, it would get lost in this thread.
> 
> I think the three threads should stand as they are.


There's a lot more than 3. They just don't say coronavirus in the title. There's ones about panic buying and self isolating etc. All to do with the virus, even the ones calling for positivity.


----------



## Cully

I've just done a very quick count and apart from the 4 COVID related threads in CatChat, there are at least 10 in General, maybe more.


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Promising studies are being done in a few countries with the old tried and tested anti malaria drug, chloroquine. This sounds like very good news but I haven't heard this mentioned once on the radio or TV news?
> 
> An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)
> _
> "Recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that chloroquine is an effective antiviral therapeutic treatment against Coronavirus Disease 2019. Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay. US CDC research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed. Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions". _
> 
> "_Chloroquine can both prevent and treat coronavirus in primate cells (Figure 1 and Figure 2). According to South Korean and China human treatment guidelines, chloroquine is effective in treating COVID-19. Given chloroquine's human safety profile and existence, it can be implemented today in the U.S., Europe and the rest of the world. Medical doctors may be reluctant to prescribe chloroquine to treat COVID-19 since it is not FDA approved for this use. The United States of America and other countries should immediately authorize and indemnify medical doctors for prescribing chloroquine to treat COVID-19. We must explore whether chloroquine can safely serve as a preventative measure prior to infection of COVID-19 to stop further spread of this highly contagious virus."_


I read about it being a possibility, weeks ago in the French newspapers.

An interesting article from yesterday's France 24.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200318-coronavirus-where-do-we-stand-in-the-race-for-a-vaccine

*Coronavirus: where do we stand in the race for a vaccine?*


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> You can't shut a whole country down for months on end


If you do you just postpone the inevitable. As this is worldwide the problem would flood in whenever you open up again. Maybe you could close down completely for a while (not sure how though) but you can't close off forever.


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> There's a lot more than 3. They just don't say coronavirus in the title. There's ones about panic buying and self isolating etc. All to do with the virus, even the ones calling for positivity.


I think you just answered your question TBH. One is about panic buying and one is about self isolating!
As long as people dont post randomly in the wrong sections....I mean this is all anybody is talking about at the moment!


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm not an expert and don't have anyone to advise me, but HE does, and he and his advisers are behind the rest of Europe.


Would you have been happy if he had followed Italy's experts
What would you have said then I wonder
But as there is no pleasing you I will say no more


----------



## Dogloverlou

I went to the doctor's this morning and got a prescription for anxiety meds. It's thought that the symptoms I was feeling this past week are linked to anxiety. I really didn't think I was being effected with all the hysteria, but sub consciously it's obviously playing on my mind. I've reduced the time I spend watching/hearing the news and hopefully I'll start to relax again. 

In other news, stopped off at Aldi on the way back from my appt and managed to do a fairly decent shop and hit the toilet roll jackpot with a 24 pack! :Hilarious glad I decided to go out rather than wait the ridiculous weeks of 'no slots' for online delivery!


----------



## purringcats

I have created this and I am thinking of displaying it on my front door.

The cough I had earlier has gone. Oh well. I am glad it has gone.


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> I think you just answered your question TBH. One is about panic buying and one is about self isolating!
> As long as people dont post randomly in the wrong sections....I mean this is all anybody is talking about at the moment!


What question?


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> View attachment 433786
> 
> I have created this and I am thinking of displaying it on my front door.
> 
> The cough I had earlier has gone. Oh well. I am glad it has gone.


If someone has had symptoms, and decides to come round your house, I'm pretty sure a notice would make not a jot of difference.

Just more fear causing to be honest. The information is out there. Some people are just choosing to ignore it.


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> If someone has had symptoms, and decides to come round your house, I'm pretty sure a notice would make not a jot of difference.
> 
> Just more fear causing to be honest. The information is out there. Some people are just choosing to ignore it.


People are choosing to ignore the advice out there. In my local town you would be shocked at how many people are walking around coughing constantly and not following advice to cough into tissue and dispose it etc, etc. But what can you do except protect yourself.


----------



## Dogloverlou

purringcats said:


> View attachment 433786
> 
> I have created this and I am thinking of displaying it on my front door.
> 
> The cough I had earlier has gone. Oh well. I am glad it has gone.


I've had alot of those symptoms this past week but because I've had no cough I've been certain I haven't had it  during the phone appt i had a few days ago the doctor didn't think it sounded like CV and if course has put my symptoms down to anxiety. But for my, and other people's sake, I hope it is only anxiety as I've still been working and going out.....


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> If you do you just postpone the inevitable.


I think the hope is that while we will still get the same number of people getting infected and needing hospitalization, if we can slow the rate of infection, it will give us a better chance to be able to deal with the numbers. Instead of dealing with "N" infections just one month for example, we spread that same "N" number out over several/many months, and the numbers are much more manageable.

At least that's how I understand it. I don't think anyone in charge is under any delusions that this won't be a large scale infection and that sadly many people will die


----------



## Magyarmum

@samuelsmiles3 Another article for you. This time from Allodocteurs.fr

https://www.allodocteurs.fr/maladie...ement-en-cours_28936.html#xtor=EPR-1000002224

*Coronavirus: what clinical trials are currently underway?*


----------



## Siskin

I had a chat with the staff this afternoon when I went for radiotherapy about coronavirus. One comment was that the staff are magic as they don’t need to be tested presumably because they won’t get it

All these celebrities going on line saying they’ve been tested and found to be clear, who flippin’ cares, it’s far more important that medical staff are tested to protect all those they treat. I was told that currently there are no case of CV in the oncology unit and my RT will continue.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> I think the hope is that while we will still get the same number of people getting infected and needing hospitalization, if we can slow the rate of infection, it will give us a better chance to be able to deal with the numbers. Instead of dealing with "N" infections just one month for example, we spread that same "N" number out over several/many months, and the numbers are much more manageable.


I explained it with Lego blocks the other day  You take the blocks and you build them into one tall tower that comes crashing down or you take the same number of blocks and build lots of small towers side by side. Small towers take more space (timeline) but they're more stable.


----------



## cheekyscrip

People are incredible. Parents brought today kid to school. With raging fever!!! 
It is a school for the most vulnerable kids.
Then they had a hissy fit when they were called to take the kid home. Plus the kid was sent home yesterday for the same reason.
While the corona count is here at 10 and growing fast!
My OH has a serious lung condition but still working there.

People are so selfish.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> I explained it with Lego blocks the other day  You take the blocks and you build them into one tall tower that comes crashing down or you take the same number of blocks and build lots of small towers side by side. Small towers take more space (timeline) but they're more stable.


We're calling it "flattening the curve" on this side of the pond:








https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html

The Washington Post has a very good article I thought:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Sorry if this has all been posted before!


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> We're calling it "flattening the curve" on this side of the pond:


We're calling it that here too but they're not explaining it to a nine year old


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> We're calling it "flattening the curve" on this side of the pond:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html
> 
> The Washington Post has a very good article I thought:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
> 
> Sorry if this has all been posted before!


Someone else posted this somewhere in cat chat - a little light humour.


----------



## SusieRainbow

catz4m8z said:


> I think you just answered your question TBH. One is about panic buying and one is about self isolating!
> As long as people dont post randomly in the wrong sections....I mean this is all anybody is talking about at the moment!


I was just about to post something along those lines. Please keep closely to the topic of each thread to avoid random duplications or similar posts. 
I will go through all the threads and maybe close one or two that have similar types of discussion- eg I think there are 2 if not more threads on self isolation, we will stick with just one but the others will remain visible,though not active.
it would take far too long and more technical expertise than I have to merge them all.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

For people with symptoms who are self isolating at home, and with the time to do it, this seems to make a lot of sense.


----------



## Jobeth

https://nursedottybooks.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/dave-the-dog-coronavirus-1-1.pdf

Those with younger children might find this helpful.


----------



## mrs phas

I found this a very interesting way of putting things into perspective, seeing as not only do we have, now, more people on the planet than have ever lived before, in total
And
Better, swifter acting medications

(Rider, not sure I agree with the hiv/aids, but it's not my programme
Neither do I care who is presenting it, could be Gordon the gopher, it would still be pertinent)

https://www.facebook.com/1691455784407633/posts/2685390805014121/


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> For people with symptoms who are self isolating at home, and with the time to do it, this seems to make a lot of sense.


Is this posted tongue in cheek?
If spraying water up your nose followed by a blowdryer to the nose were such an effective treatment - known since 1984 no less, I'm pretty sure we'd all know about it by now 

If anything I'd think this was a good way of increasing potential for infection....

And the description of how viruses reproduce is all wrong too.....

It really does read/sound like a satirical video!

ETA: Not satire sadly:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hair-dryer-coronavirus/

Seriously folks, let's not share misinformation.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

O2.0 said:


> Is this posted tongue in cheek?
> If spraying water up your nose followed by a blowdryer to the nose were such an effective treatment - known since 1984 no less, I'm pretty sure we'd all know about it by now
> 
> If anything I'd think this was a good way of increasing potential for infection....
> 
> And the description of how viruses reproduce is all wrong too.....
> 
> It really does read/sound like a satirical video!


No, it wasn't a tongue in cheek post. But if you can find evidence that refutes the claims made in the video, I'm happy to be corrected.


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> No, it wasn't a tongue in cheek post. But if you can find evidence that refutes the claims made in the video, I'm happy to be corrected.


I edited my post while you were replying:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hair-dryer-coronavirus/

But really, a basic understanding of how viruses work and 3 minutes in you know the guy's a quack. Viruses don't reproduce in the sinuses. They have to link to the host's genetic material in order to reproduce. And it happens throughout the body. Not in one location. Viruses are rarely a localized infection.


----------



## Lurcherlad

samuelsmiles3 said:


> No, it wasn't a tongue in cheek post. But if you can find evidence that refutes the claims made in the video, I'm happy to be corrected.


A medical expert refuted it on tv this morning.


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> https://nursedottybooks.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/dave-the-dog-coronavirus-1-1.pdf
> 
> Those with younger children might find this helpful.


Thank you so much
Just read it to a friends daughter. They had a short leaflet, autism friendly one but this one is far better. 
Have sent the link to several teachers, all thankful and think it's great. Currently school numbers are down. Many are self isolating but a lot of children are struggling with school currently due to anxiety, unable to process what is actually being said on the media. They can't fully understand due to their age and development. If only they had the book earlier, although perfect timing for many being given the book to look at tomorrow.

Thank you once again.


----------



## raysmyheart

I am in the Northeast United States. I work a full-time retail position during the day (in-store) and another job, part-time salesperson in the evenings at a store that has many locations across the US. 
Five days ago, the part-time work reduced open for business hours and had managers only operate the store at my location. 
Last evening, the company announced it would close all stores, all hours, until, for now, early April.

The store I work in full-time remains open because we are considered an essentials store, we sell food, cleaners paper products.


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> Thank you so much
> Just read it to a friends daughter. They had a short leaflet, autism friendly one but this one is far better.
> Have sent the link to several teachers, all thankful and think it's great. Currently school numbers are down. Many are self isolating but a lot of children are struggling with school currently due to anxiety, unable to process what is actually being said on the media. They can't fully understand due to their age and development. If only they had the book earlier, although perfect timing for many being given the book to look at tomorrow.
> 
> Thank you once again.


You're welcome and I'm glad you found it helpful. There's another free one on the ELSA website https://www.elsa-support.co.uk/coronavirus-story-for-children/ but I thought that one was nicer for younger children.


----------



## kimthecat

With the pubs shut and people self isolating themselves, I predict there will be a baby boom at Christmas !


----------



## Jason25

I heard something on the news about schools making refrigerated meals and delivering them to peoples homes. Does anyone know how I find out if this is happening in my area and how to get involved? I’ve got a van so can help deliver.


----------



## lullabydream

Jason25 said:


> I heard something on the news about schools making refrigerated meals and delivering them to peoples homes. Does anyone know how I find out if this is happening in my area and how to get involved? I've got a van so can help deliver.


Could you put yourself on local radio station? Not all schools have kitchens and therefore it's delivered to schools anyway. They may here it, or a school may here it.

The schools have had so much pressure on them at the moment this week. In my county, some schools had no choice for secondary schools to do partial closures. Due to teacher absences.
Then in others staffing is OK, but children absences are high a vast number. 
All schools have have been planning work for children to take home with them.
All children need this work at home before Friday school closures, so teachers have been dropping work home to the absent parents.

The government has yet to define 'keyworkers' schools are merging as hubs to make this viable.schools have defined this to best of their ability. 
No actual school work as far as I know is taking place. The children will have their work at home to do as everyone else.
It's really a logistically minefield at the moment.


----------



## purringcats

cheekyscrip said:


> People are so selfish.


I totally agree with this.


----------



## purringcats

There was 2 police officers at my local Waitrose this morning and there was large queues of people waiting to go in. Yes I popped along at 7:30am to see what is going on. 7:30am is opening time. Once the store opened everyone beelined for the toilet roll isle. No wonder there is a shortage of toilet roll throughout the rest of the day.


----------



## purringcats

This is reminding me of the first few episodes of Fear The Walking Dead TV series (except there are no walkers/zombies in real life). The series started out explaining that it was a virus that spread quickly that turned people into zombies after they died through the story. This coronavirus is spreading very quickly.


----------



## Jackie C

purringcats said:


> There was 2 police officers at my local Waitrose this morning and there was large queues of people waiting to go in. Yes I popped along at 7:30am to see what is going on. 7:30am is opening time. Once the store opened everyone beelined for the toilet roll isle. No wonder there is a shortage of toilet roll throughout the rest of the day.


At a WAITROSE?!?

We ALL have to be sensible and not be completely selfish @rseholes. 
We're not stockpiling, but have genuinely either ran out or are low and just buying what we need. Dave went out early and managed to get loo roll, because the kind delivery man put him one aside for him. We would have just bought only one, anyway, as that is all we needed. We were getting low. 
We have only a couple of slices of bread left, but there was none at the supermarket. I'm fine without bread, I'm not bothered, but Dave does like a sandwich.
We literally had no bleach, and only a tiny bit of washing-up liquid and the toilet is looking a bit minging, but he managed to get one bottle of that as well, and bought one bottle of washing-up liquid. There were a couple of bottles left, but *he only bought what we needed. *

I've made my own alcohol sanitizer a couple of weeks ago:
2/3 rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl Alcohol 99%) 
1/3 aloe gel

Dave is working from home. I'm a nurse in critical care, so obviously can't, but I don't want any special treatment and regard myself as lucky as we get sick pay if we're off.

This is one of my work colleagues, completely overwhelmed by it all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...nurse-s-despair-as-panic-buyers-clear-shelves


----------



## purringcats

I have been buying what I need. I have not stockpiled but have enough essentials in to last me until just past my next online shop and I buy other essentials as I need them from the local stores.


----------



## Magyarmum

I can't order groceries online because no one delivers in my area. We have no shops in my village and the nearest supermarket is 12 miles away. I live on my own and at 80 years old, although healthy I'm at risk. I did a big shop last Wednesday and am not ashamed to admit I did buy enough groceries to last me for a month, although I wouldn't call it stockpiling! 

I'm now self isolating so if I have the virus I won't infect others and if I don't then by staying at home I won't get infected!


----------



## havoc

I'm hoping it will all calm down a bit in a couple of weeks if we get to settle into a routine. I don't think telling the old and vulnerable that they must hunker down for twelve weeks has helped. I think it's put it in minds that everyone needs to stock up for that length of time. Every time the rumour mill comes out with threats of even more draconian measures it sets another wave of panic off. Boris said yesterday he was definitely not going to lock London down but it didn't stop another fierce wave of panic buying.


----------



## kimthecat

Just thinking of Anne Frank and the two families hiding for two years from the Nazis , It puts self isolation into perspective .


----------



## rona

OMG..had to go out for bread and milk today...........is no one social distancing? :Banghead :Banghead

Person with snotty kids standing right behind me, a woman coughing constantly and a very old lady that seemed to want to get onto my lap in the queue


----------



## purringcats

Woman behind the open counter serving people was coughing at customers the other day. According to guidance she should be at home self isolated. People are not following guidance nor social distancing here.


----------



## purringcats

*Coronavirus: Man arrested for failing to self-isolate on the Isle of Man*

The Manx Government says anyone arriving on the island must self-isolate for 14 days, to prevent the spread of COVID-19.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...g-to-self-isolate-on-the-isle-of-man-11960799


----------



## Cully

Jackie C said:


> At a WAITROSE?!?
> 
> We ALL have to be sensible and not be completely selfish @rseholes.
> We're not stockpiling, but have genuinely either ran out or are low and just buying what we need. Dave went out early and managed to get loo roll, because the kind delivery man put him one aside for him. We would have just bought only one, anyway, as that is all we needed. We were getting low.
> We have only a couple of slices of bread left, but there was none at the supermarket. I'm fine without bread, I'm not bothered, but Dave does like a sandwich.
> We literally had no bleach, and only a tiny bit of washing-up liquid and the toilet is looking a bit minging, but he managed to get one bottle of that as well, and bought one bottle of washing-up liquid. There were a couple of bottles left, but *he only bought what we needed. *
> 
> I've made my own alcohol sanitizer a couple of weeks ago:
> 2/3 rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl Alcohol 99%)
> 1/3 aloe gel
> 
> Dave is working from home. I'm a nurse in critical care, so obviously can't, but I don't want any special treatment and regard myself as lucky as we get sick pay if we're off.
> 
> This is one of my work colleagues, completely overwhelmed by it all
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...nurse-s-despair-as-panic-buyers-clear-shelves


Thank you for what you do.:Angelic


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> I did a big shop last Wednesday and am not ashamed to admit I did buy enough groceries to last me for a month, although I wouldn't call it stockpiling!


It probably doesnt help the situation but TBH I think most of us are doing it!:Shy I know Ive bought for a couple of weeks more then normal just to cover any shortfall later. Not so much panic buying as 'mildly worried buying'! LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> It probably doesnt help the situation but TBH I think most of us are doing it!:Shy I know Ive bought for a couple of weeks more then normal just to cover any shortfall later. Not so much panic buying as 'mildly worried buying'! LOL:Hilarious


My reasoning was, every day that goes by, the chances of catching the virus increases, so why take the risk?


----------



## Cully

I'm trying to plan ahead but it's so difficult when I am self isolating and there are no delivery slots.
It's definitely worth checking everyday as I just managed to get a Tesco slot for next Thursday and that definitely wasn't available yesterday.
I've got one with ASDA for 29th, and one with Tesco again on 1st April. It sounds great in theory but only if they have everything I need in stock.
I'll wait and see what they deliver next week, and add anything missing to my ASDA delivery. I'll do the same to my 1st April delivery too. Obviously I'll remove anything already received so I don't deplete stocks. It's a full time job in itself just trying to manage shopping.
Tried an online order with [email protected] this morning but very little stock so didn't bother. I managed to order stuff on Zooplus, but don't know what will eventually arrive. Or when! Their stocks are quite low too.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> My reasoning was, every day that goes by, the chances of catching the virus increases, so why take the risk?


I know and I've bought a bit more than usual of some things but only that which I buy anyway. Not a lot because I tend to keep 'one in hand' of a lot of things.


----------



## Jobeth

If you do an online shop you need to check it again as close as possible to the final cut off time. I updated my basket Wednesday but by Thursday 12 items had been removed with no substitutions being offered. I found similar items but I’m not sure what I will get tonight.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

I thought that as well..


kimthecat said:


> With the pubs shut and people self isolating themselves, I predict there will be a baby boom at Christmas !


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

People are lying low here. Like a ghost town. 
No point in bothering with a shopping list here because it's just a case of taking whatever available. 
No Bog roll No milk or dried milk No bread
No pasta. No online shopping slots. I think online shopping should be reserved for the vulnerable groups. I think the government need to organise something before they self isolate because this is causing them great anxiety right now. Not everyone has someone to shop for them. Some elderly and sick are completely isolated or have only other elderly people in their circle.

People need to think twice about hoarding groceries. It's extremely selfish


----------



## havoc

MissMiloKitty said:


> No online shopping slots


People are now effectively hoarding slots if they can get them.
In theory the old and vulnerable are to be given priority but I don't know how they can check eligibility. Maybe if you take one and the delivery driver turns up to someone young and fit they don't leave the order or blacklist the address - who knows.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> People are now effectively hoarding slots if they can get them.
> In theory the old and vulnerable are to be given priority but I don't know how they can check eligibility. Maybe if you take one and the delivery driver turns up to someone young and fit they don't leave the order or blacklist the address - who knows.


It's hard to know whose got asthma for example or not.. It's a bit like those posters in doctors surgeries spot the epileptic, those who have a this wrong with them etc, we can look normal. Not all Ms sufferers are in wheelchairs that sort of thing but this can potentially cause a flare up. I mean I could shake my inhaler at them.. It's a two in one type.. If that helps.
Many people are on prescription medications long term that are not under the bracket. 
Some people are on PIP but again are not classed as vulnerable but again not in that way. 
So hard to judge isn't it really.


----------



## Elles

I feel like I live in an alternate universe. Round here people are social distancing and self isolating, there’s little traffic on the roads and the shops are as full of stuff as they usually are. I have to go out to see to the horses. The postman and other delivery drivers stay well away from us when they deliver. Must just be the big cities?


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> Must just be the big cities?


My local farm shop in the middle of a field ......................


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> It's hard to know whose got asthma for example or not.. It's a bit like those posters in doctors surgeries spot the epileptic, those who have a this wrong with them etc, we can look normal. Not all Ms sufferers are in wheelchairs that sort of thing but this can potentially cause a flare up. I mean I could shake my inhaler at them.. It's a two in one type.. If that helps.
> Many people are on prescription medications long term that are not under the bracket.
> Some people are on PIP but again are not classed as vulnerable but again not in that way.
> So hard to judge isn't it really.


I know what you mean. My knee is up like a balloon today and even if I wasn't isolating there's no way I could get to a shop.
All of my neighbours are aged over 60 and having varying age limiting disabilities, so helping each other with shopping etc isn't much of an option.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Apparently lorry came to deliver bread to the supermarket and people were running to get to the shop.
Generally it is much quiter here but people are still having to go out and get food, I think virtually every shop that doesn't sell food or cleaning products is shut.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> I feel like I live in an alternate universe. Round here people are social distancing and self isolating, there's little traffic on the roads and the shops are as full of stuff as they usually are. I have to go out to see to the horses. The postman and other delivery drivers stay well away from us when they deliver. Must just be the big cities?


I live in a small town and it's terrible in the supermarket. Am sandwiched between 2 small towns and small city, which are about 15-20 minutes drive town. All are affected, I am wondering if people are travelling to any supermarkets to try and get food, so it is a vicious circle too round here. There was report in the local online paper to back up this claim with various accounts of how out how the supermarkets are in my town from people from the other towns and city.

I can still hear a lot of cars on the road I live central to the town centre but the retail park is pretty dead. Still seeing many people out and about though whilst walking the dogs.


----------



## MilleD

Oh my god, this is ridiculous.

I work in local government and we have just had a email round saying _every person_ working in local government is classed as a key worker. Which goes totally against the guidance central government have put out.

Honestly, the schools might as well stay bloody open at this point. You'd thing local government would be leading the way to prevent further spread, but no, we are all "critical" apparently.

I'm an accountant, whether I go to work or not has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on frontline services.

I wonder if there is anyone to moan at....


----------



## MilleD

Iceland appear to have their act together - there are slots available for tomorrow - but they expire in an hour and there are pop ups asking if you are vulnerable.

Round here at least


----------



## catz4m8z

Call it crazy but I might have just ordered some microfibre cloths to use as TP!!:Shy:Hilarious I figure why not use all this commotion as an opportunity?
I have needed to go on a diet and eat healthier so now is the perfect time (I'll probably save money too!).
I always try to be as eco friendly as possible so why not try washable toilet paper?? (wees only....not the heavy duty stuff!LOL). I mean I already use washable cleaning cloths and puppy pads for the dogs, if I dont mind shoving dog pee covered cloths into the washing machine why not people pee!?

I dont care if the world is giving me lemons....imma make some lemonade!:Smug


----------



## ChaosCat

MilleD said:


> Oh my god, this is ridiculous.
> 
> I work in local government and we have just had a email round saying _every person_ working in local government is classed as a key worker. Which goes totally against the guidance central government have put out.
> 
> Honestly, the schools might as well stay bloody open at this point. You'd thing local government would be leading the way to prevent further spread, but no, we are all "critical" apparently.
> 
> I'm an accountant, whether I go to work or not has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on frontline services.
> 
> I wonder if there is anyone to moan at....


Here both parents must work in key jobs, single parents sharing responsibilities with their ex no exception.
Of our 200 pupils 6 only come to school to be taught/ looked after in two groups by the teachers younger than 60. As some colleagues show flu/ cold symptoms they aren't allowed to come, either. So I have been to school all week, today being my first home office day.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Oh my god, this is ridiculous.
> 
> I work in local government and we have just had a email round saying _every person_ working in local government is classed as a key worker. Which goes totally against the guidance central government have put out.
> 
> Honestly, the schools might as well stay bloody open at this point. You'd thing local government would be leading the way to prevent further spread, but no, we are all "critical" apparently.
> 
> I'm an accountant, whether I go to work or not has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on frontline services.
> 
> I wonder if there is anyone to moan at....


The government didn't release documentation till midnight.. Schools had to work on guidelines before hand for parents anyway. 
My son works in local government.. He may or not be working at home. His department do a lot of photocopying and filing. We have his monitor here already. They were given ideas how best to run each office.. His is small anyway. Obviously they have come up with a figure of 2 instead of 5. Which has been approved hence the monitor but, no idea logistically if it will work so they are now coming up with other options.

The accountants jumped shipped at my sisters firm first. She's in IT. She is working from home now as far as I know.

.


----------



## MilleD

Does anyone know if you can add to an Iceland order after you have checked out?


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> Apparently lorry came to deliver bread to the supermarket and people were running to get to the shop.
> Generally it is much quiter here but people are still having to go out and get food, I think virtually every shop that doesn't sell food or cleaning products is shut.


Our village pub has just announced they will do takeaway (and they will deliver) pretty much what is on their menu. They will also have a number of basic foodstuffs available like some veg and pasta etc, they will also bake their own bread for you if they are given 24hrs notice.



lullabydream said:


> I live in a small town and it's terrible in the supermarket. Am sandwiched between 2 small towns and small city, which are about 15-20 minutes drive town. All are affected, I am wondering if people are travelling to any supermarkets to try and get food, so it is a vicious circle too round here. There was report in the local online paper to back up this claim with various accounts of how out how the supermarkets are in my town from people from the other towns and city.
> 
> I can still hear a lot of cars on the road I live central to the town centre but the retail park is pretty dead. Still seeing many people out and about though whilst walking the dogs.


One of the staff at the hospital today told me that the Cheltenham branch of Tesco's had designated an NHS hour. Don't know if it's just that branch or all Tesco's



catz4m8z said:


> Call it crazy but I might have just ordered some microfibre cloths to use as TP!!:Shy:Hilarious I figure why not use all this commotion as an opportunity?
> I have needed to go on a diet and eat healthier so now is the perfect time (I'll probably save money too!).
> I always try to be as eco friendly as possible so why not try washable toilet paper?? (wees only....not the heavy duty stuff!LOL). I mean I already use washable cleaning cloths and puppy pads for the dogs, if I dont mind shoving dog pee covered cloths into the washing machine why not people pee!?
> 
> I dont care if the world is giving me lemons....imma make some lemonade!:Smug


Ok hands up to those that have started rationing how many sheets of loo paper they use each time.

The consultant has told me to drink at least a litre of water a day which I'm duly doing, but what goes in seems to whizz back out again. I suddenly realised on my nth visit to the loo that I was being far too extravagant in my usage just for a wee, so I limit myself to two sheets carefully folded. 
We will have the blackout next

Been reduced to tears once again at peoples kindness, this time in the village shop. 
The lady that runs it had put out a message round the village that if anybody wanted something in particular then she would order it in from their suppliers. I asked if she could get me Anadin extras which really hit the spot for me at the moment. She messaged me to say she had got some could I come and collect. I drove over clutching my bank card to do contactless and she produced two packs from under the counter (is this a black market economy we have now). She told me there is a box full in there just for me and I can come whenever I need them. She can only sell me two packs at a time legally, but I now know they are there waiting for me.


----------



## buffie

MilleD said:


> Does anyone know if you can add to an Iceland order after you have checked out?


I was just going to ask the same question about a Morrisons order .
I can see how to add/subtract from the items ordered but not how to add other items.
I've sent them an email but heaven only knows when they will answer,I gave up waiting after 30 mins on the phone.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I drove over clutching my bank card to do contactless and she produced two packs from under the counter (is this a black market economy we have now). She told me there is a box full in there just for me and I can come whenever I need them. She can only sell me two packs at a time legally, but I now know they are there waiting for me.


Excellent


----------



## catz4m8z

ChaosCat said:


> Of our 200 pupils 6 only come to school to be taught/ looked after


wow, how gutted would you be to be one of those 6?!!:Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

buffie said:


> I was just going to ask the same question about a Morrisons order .
> I can see how to add/subtract from the items ordered but not how to add other items.
> I've sent them an email but heaven only knows when they will answer,I gave up waiting after 30 mins on the phone.


You can with Iceland, once I checked out it said I could add until 11pm.

I'm pretty sure when I've used Morrisons in the past that it's the same.


----------



## ChaosCat

catz4m8z said:


> wow, how gutted would you be to be one of those 6?!!:Hilarious


Actually they totally enjoy it.


----------



## ZoeM

My technician rang me saying our 'hub' school now looks like it will not open. I think the penny has dropped that schools are rife with the virus and they will be putting doctors, and key workers kids at increasing risk. I am so relieved. Our school needs a huge deep clean, and social isolating to be carried out with staff confirmed coronavirus free. Apparently the head teacher looked devastated. I dont know if he has realised that everything I have been telling him and the business manager is true, and he's continued to put everyone at risk by staying open.

I dont know if primarys still being opened up as kids under 11 can't look after themselves. I guess older kids who have special needs will be looked after there.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> The government didn't release documentation till midnight.. Schools had to work on guidelines before hand for parents anyway.
> My son works in local government.. He may or not be working at home. His department do a lot of photocopying and filing. We have his monitor here already. They were given ideas how best to run each office.. His is small anyway. Obviously they have come up with a figure of 2 instead of 5. Which has been approved hence the monitor but, no idea logistically if it will work so they are now coming up with other options.
> 
> The accountants jumped shipped at my sisters firm first. She's in IT. She is working from home now as far as I know.
> 
> .


Photocopying and filing??! In this day and age??

We don't even have a desk, never mind a cupboard to keep stuff in. It's all electronic.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> wow, how gutted would you be to be one of those 6?!!:Hilarious


A family member of mine who is a doctor (and married to another doctor) posted this last night:


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> Iceland appear to have their act together - there are slots available for tomorrow - but they expire in an hour and there are pop ups asking if you are vulnerable.
> 
> Round here at least


Yes but what if people say they're vulnerable when they're not? Similar to the first hour in Sainsbury set aside for the elderly but no one takes a blind bit of notice?


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Yes but what if people say they're vulnerable when they're not? Similar to the first hour in Sainsbury set aside for the elderly but no one takes a blind bit of notice?


Maybe it will reduce the usage of some folks though?


----------



## MissKittyKat

Jesthar said:


> A family member of mine who is a doctor (and married to another doctor) posted this last night:
> View attachment 433848



This was my sister's kids too as she's a police officer. My nephew was so upset he's got tonsillitis  instead.

I work in a special school and the parents were so grateful yesterday when we were phoning up to let them now school would be open as usual until Easter as this gives them options.

We will also run our curriculum as close to normal as possible as we do t want to cause more anxiety by causing too much change x


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Photocopying and filing??! In this day and age??
> 
> We don't even have a desk, never mind a cupboard to keep stuff in. It's all electronic.


It's land registry and should have said scanning but they still file somethings..


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> People are now effectively hoarding slots if they can get them.
> In theory the old and vulnerable are to be given priority but I don't know how they can check eligibility. Maybe if you take one and the delivery driver turns up to someone young and fit they don't leave the order or blacklist the address - who knows.


Difficult to make a judgement though.

The fit person might be there to take delivery because the elderly person is bedridden or at a hospital appointment, etc.


----------



## buffie

MilleD said:


> You can with Iceland, once I checked out it said I could add until 11pm.
> 
> *I'm pretty sure when I've used Morrisons in the past that it's the same*.


It does say that I can *edit *the order by 1;00am on the 24th of March which I have done but only by adding more or less of the items already in the order.
I cant see any options to "add" new items to the order................maybe I'm being thick , it has been known


----------



## rona

My local council has just checked on my sister who is not quite 70 yet but lives on her own.
Good on them 
Well impressed


----------



## lullabydream

MissKittyKat said:


> This was my sister's kids too as she's a police officer. My nephew was so upset he's got tonsillitis  instead.
> 
> I work in a special school and the parents were so grateful yesterday when we were phoning up to let them now school would be open as usual until Easter as this gives them options.
> 
> We will also run our curriculum as close to normal as possible as we do t want to cause more anxiety by causing too much change x


Our special school closed in the town, many anxious parents prior to closure and anxious children. I honestly thought they would keep it open as best they could although a small majority have health problems too. So that might be another reason. It's very hard to make the right decision.

From working with a family they are having problems with a change of routine now. The actual understand of why school is closed

My daughter in law on the other hand is very similar to @ChaosCat they have 6 pupils, but their school role is smaller being a large village primary school for quite a few village schools. They aren't teaching. They were going to merge but due to one child's education and health care plan she will not cope with change. All children including the 6 attending school still have work to complete at home but the emphasis is on fun and more social development.


----------



## kimthecat

Jason25 said:


> I heard something on the news about schools making refrigerated meals and delivering them to peoples homes. Does anyone know how I find out if this is happening in my area and how to get involved? I've got a van so can help deliver.


Thats an excelllent idea. perhaps contact the local council ?

My friends Asda delivery driver says they have a warehouse filled with goods but cant fill up the shelves quickly enough due to demand so its like there is a shortage but isnt.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> My friends Asda delivery driver says they have a warehouse filled with goods but cant fill up the shelves quickly enough due to demand so its like there is a shortage but isnt.


tesco, sainsbury, farmfoods, poundland all taking on extra temporary workers here
good job
son got told today, no2 job is closing sunday, for the foreseeable
unless BJ comes up with something special in todays briefing
he'll go from £1000 a month over 2 jobs
to nothing coming n whatsoever
OH works in chippy, theyre refusing to say whether their going to close lunch times ( no pensioners out to get their lunchtime specials) or close completely
and, of course
son is home from school for the forseeable

Edit to add, I never thought to hear this come from my mind, let alone mouth
Well done Boris!


----------



## MilleD

Unbelievable measures being put in place to protect workers.

Well done. Very impressed.


----------



## MilleD

I bet all the folks who have been paying people under the table so taxes don't have to be paid are kicking themselves. Or at least, their workers are.


----------



## rona

Mmm, not much help for the self employed


----------



## havoc

I can only quote what my daughter has just messaged me
'I can't believe I'm grateful to a Tory govt - it truly is the apocalypse'


----------



## MilleD

And still labour are saying it's not enough. That Shadow chancellor is an absolute bloody idiot.

So much for the party pull together.


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Mmm, not much help for the self employed


I know but for many they will continue to function because the 'employed' can still afford them. Sole traders such as plumbers, electricians etc. will still be needed.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> And still labour are saying it's not enough. That Shadow chancellor is an absolute bloody idiot.
> 
> So much for the party pull together.


We knew they'd lost a grasp on reality when they voted Corbyn in


----------



## purringcats

Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed, the vulnerable and homeless it was all for the employed and on working class credits.

The proposals are good for workers and the self employed.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed it was all for the employed and on working class credits.
> 
> The proposals are good for workers and the self employed.


But it's those people it affects the most. What do you want them to do for those people that no longer work?


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed it was all for the employed and on working class credits.
> 
> The proposals are good for workers and the self employed.


Yes but currently it's them that are most affected by this, they are our economy.

Nothing really has changed for the above if you mean carers as in the sense of those who claim carers allowance


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed, the vulnerable and homeless it was all for the employed and on working class credits.


There is always 'more' could be considered but for the love of god we have a Tory govt giving a sh*t for a change. They are taking this very seriously and going way further than anyone thought they would. I sort of hate that I'm impressed with it - but I am. Just for once, just for this, give them the credit they deserve.


----------



## purringcats

We are all in this together and need to see it through together.

Don't get me wrong the package that the Chancellor has done is excellent.


----------



## mrs phas

For any of our older members in this lovely community, self isolating or not,
Don't forget, if you have any worries, just needing someone to chat to, find a proper, safe volunteer to do a bit of shopping or pick up medication, even help you with drs/hospital appointments at this manic time
There's someone there, even in your darkest hour

https://www.thesilverline.org.uk/


----------



## purringcats

havoc said:


> There is always 'more' could be considered but for the love of god we have a Tory govt giving a sh*t for a change. They are taking this very seriously and going way further than anyone thought they would. I sort of hate that I'm impressed with it - but I am. Just for once, just for this, give them the credit they deserve.


Yes I agree with you totally. It is nice to see a Tory Government giving a sh*t.


----------



## purringcats

Hurray pubs, clubs etc told to close tonight. The pubs in my town are packed as people are ignoring the call to social distance themselves.


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed, the vulnerable and homeless it was all for the employed and on working class credits.
> 
> The proposals are good for workers and the self employed.


UC and Working tax credits up
So that will have a knock on effect for HB payments
Nothing for those like me, not on UC and not being on IR ESA or other benefits
But
I know what's coming into my house per month and know I can afford to eat
I'd much rather that money go to those who are on enforced hiatus from their jobs and don't know how they will pay rent etc


----------



## kimthecat

Just seen on London news , Northwick park Hospital in Harrow is at full capacity already


----------



## Siskin

purringcats said:


> Hurray pubs, clubs etc told to close tonight. The pubs in my town are packed as people are ignoring the call to social distance themselves.


I think that's the only way to stop some people who couldn't give a monkeys. I guess they will bulk buy tinnies from the supermarket along with their mass toilet roll haul and go to each other's homes. At least they will be keeping it to themselves to a degree


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I think that's the only way to stop some people who couldn't give a monkeys. I guess they will bulk buy tinnies from the supermarket along with their mass toilet roll haul and go to each other's homes. At least they will be keeping it to themselves to a degree


Absolutely the cognitive dissonance is ridiculous. Let's panic buy incase we have to self isolate.. However still eat and drink in places with others. 
The only thing they ignore is what the government is asking everyone to do, don't panic buy there is enough for everyone. Avoid socialising think social distancing.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> I know what you mean. My knee is up like a balloon today and even if I wasn't isolating there's no way I could get to a shop.
> All of my neighbours are aged over 60 and having varying age limiting disabilities, so helping each other with shopping etc isn't much of an option.


All my neighbors are younger people. 30 somethings, late 20s, like that. Couples and families. I am the only older (not elderly, but at 60 they probably see me as ancient!) person, and the only one who lives alone. We're all home now. All vehicles in every driveway. No one has knocked or even hollered up the window to see how I'm faring. Not a friendly bunch around here, though it used to be before everyone else moved and these new families gradually moved in. Just the casual hello you know or "I saw you were home a lot last week, everything okay?" I've been here 22 years. The families here now don't even wave if we happen to be out at the same time. Turn their backs so they don't have to be friendly.

Not all communities are brought together by crisis and emergency I guess.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## SbanR

purringcats said:


> Chancellor outlined nothing for pensioners, disabled, carers, unemployed, the vulnerable and homeless it was all for the employed and on working class credits.
> 
> The proposals are good for workers and the self employed.


I'm not complaining. My pension goes into my account regularly. It covers my bills


----------



## JANICE199

*Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


----------



## purringcats

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


I saw the news report in Italy this morning and was horrified. It is not about people getting a grip, this is very serious. The health care system in Italy is at breaking point. Meanwhile elsewhere in Europe the virus is taking hold and more people are getting it and dying.


----------



## HarlequinCat

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


That sounds similar to the attitude of these people going to clubs and pubs without a care in the world! 

I'm tired of hearing about, but only because I had only just managed to get a grip on anxiety before all this happened.

It's not "just a virus" it's highly contagious, hit some young and old hard, and already London is having a hard time dealing with the admissions to hospital. You only have to look at what happened in China, or Spain and Italy to know it's very serious. Governments do not like losing money, but are taking this seriously.

Also it's new, so experts haven't totally worked out what works, and what doesn't, to treat it.

I think in general most people are being good, and keeping to doing what has been advised. Theres no need to "get a grip"


----------



## Dogloverlou

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


You might be sick of hearing about it but I don't think it's fair to tell people to 'get a grip'. This is serious. As the Italians said on a news report last night, we should not be underestimating this virus and the severity of it.


----------



## PawsOnMe

Our local pubs are trying to get everyone out for one last drink tonight and begging people to support the local pubs. So stupid and I see far too many people sharing the posts. It's a shame when people/business care more about money than they do peoples' health and wellbeing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> I think that's the only way to stop some people who couldn't give a monkeys. I guess they will bulk buy tinnies from the supermarket along with their mass toilet roll haul and go to each other's homes. At least they will be keeping it to themselves to a degree


I can't believe the ridiculous attitudes of some people though ....

A suggestion was made earlier on the footie club WhatsApp group about all meeting in the pub later, then after the latest directive, in the clubhouse to drink the beer that will otherwise go off.

Er no.... and no!

The "powers that be" vetoed it, but honestly, are they really that thick!?

A radio presenter yesterday suggested avoiding pubs but get your mates round for a pub night at home!

Again... no! :Banghead

The idea is NOT TO GATHER IN NUMBERS YOU NUMPTIES!!! unch

...and breathe ....


----------



## lorilu

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


Feel free to avoid this thread and the other threads on the subject.


----------



## SusieRainbow

There are still threads NOT about the virus !


----------



## rona

Please stop getting snippy with each other. There's a few on here that need reassuring support not conflict


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> Please stop getting snippy with each other. There's a few on here that need reassuring support not conflict


Thanks @rona.
I have deleted the comment, quite unnecessary.


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> Thanks @rona.
> I have deleted the comment, quite unnecessary.


Not just you though and not just this thread.
I think this is hard enough for some without the places they escape to becoming toxic


----------



## purringcats

My local Waitrose now has hardly any stock in. No milk. No bread. No canned Food. No Frozen food except Vegan and vegetarian ready meals. Shocking the store has been stripped bare since this morning.


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> Thanks @rona.
> I have deleted the comment, quite unnecessary.


 Thanks. Please feel free to delete my response as well, then.


----------



## catz4m8z

Its just weird isnt it?:Bored Im pretty much just carrying on like usual (long standing social distancer here!) but every now and then my brain just goes 'blimey! what the fudgin' heck is going on!!:Wideyed'.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Its just weird isnt it?:Bored Im pretty much just carrying on like usual (long standing social distancer here!) but every now and then my brain just goes 'blimey! what the fudgin' heck is going on!!:Wideyed'.


It's easy for the likes of you and me, but it must be doing others heads in


----------



## purringcats

One pub in the town I live in has a chalk board outside saying stockpile your alcohol now before we close tonight enticing people in. There are lots of people on their way out to the pubs for the night here :Banghead


----------



## lorilu

rona said:


> It's easy for the likes of you and me, but it must be doing others heads in


I too prefer solitude, can never get enough. However sometimes, even for those types, it is wreaking mental health havoc. I have a friend who is very much like me, hates getting out, and being around people, in fact except for shopping, and an occasional date with me, never goes out. (she is retired, I am not) Now though she's all freaking out about being "isolated". She isn't alone, has a husband and an adult step son living with her. But she's in a real state. I respond to every freaking-out e mail she sends, just so she knows she has some support.


----------



## Lurcherlad

purringcats said:


> My local Waitrose now has hardly any stock in. No milk. No bread. No canned Food. No Frozen food except Vegan and vegetarian ready meals. Shocking the store has been stripped bare since this morning.
> View attachment 433866
> 
> View attachment 433867
> 
> View attachment 433868
> 
> View attachment 433870


I think stores are refilling only at night tbh

Doing it during the day, they're fighting a losing battle and I also think it can then get a bit tricky for staff when shoppers get angsty and it turns into a bun fight.

Stores round here are apparently hiring nighttime shelf stackers atm.


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> Stores round here are apparently hiring nighttime shelf stackers atm.


Yes, that is the way it is here. Stores are open at reduced hours. They close usually around 8 pm. The overnight hours are spent sanitizing and restocking when the trucks come in. Senior hour is between 6-7 a.m., when they first open. Anyone 60 and over can shop then when the store is freshly thoroughly sanitized..


----------



## Siskin

Where on earth are people putting all this stuff. Their cupboards, fridges and freezers and spare rooms must be bulging at the seams, yet still they come. I dare say the car is on the drive and garage is brimming too, yet still they come and take everthing they can find for themselves just in case.


----------



## mrs phas

son is hoping to pick up some supermarket hours whilst hes on enforced shut down
apart from loss of wages, i know him, hell go stir crazy if indoors for 12-16 weeks
7 days self isolation was bad enough


----------



## purringcats

Toilet roll seems to be the must buy item here. I need some so must get some tomorrow and no I am not stockpiling, I actually genuinely need some. Must get to Waitrose for 7:20am as they open at 7:30am and join the mad rush. Waitrose is the closest store to me.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Where on earth are people putting all this stuff. Their cupboards, fridges and freezers and spare rooms must be bulging at the seams, yet still they come. I dare say the car is on the drive and garage is brimming too, yet still they come and take everthing they can find for themselves just in case.


apparently sales of freezers, all types, have soared throough the roof, in the last 5 weeks
theres normally loads of ads on fb market place or freecycle
but narry a one now
come christmas might be able to pick up a bargain or two, with people getting rid
silver lining and all that


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Where on earth are people putting all this stuff. Their cupboards, fridges and freezers and spare rooms must be bulging at the seams, yet still they come. I dare say the car is on the drive and garage is brimming too, yet still they come and take everthing they can find for themselves just in case.


Going to be so much food waste


----------



## purringcats

rona said:


> Going to be so much food waste


Instead of wasting it give it to the foodbank they are crying out for donations as long as the dates are ok on the items.


----------



## purringcats

Has anyone that has been stockpiling thought for one minute of helping the homeless by cooking them a meal or giving them food that is ready to eat?


----------



## mrs phas

for all the stockpiling going on, 
its amazing how no one, anywhere, has done it
every social media form has everyoneclaming to be disgusted about it happening
but
by law of averages
some of the disgusted, must be doing it themselves

karma is a true thing
and bites you, normally on the bum, 
when you least expect it


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> for all the stockpiling going on,
> its amazing how no one, anywhere, has done it
> every social media form has everyoneclaming to be disgusted about it happening
> but
> by law of averages
> some of the disgusted, must be doing it themselves
> 
> karma is a true thing
> and bites you, normally on the bum,
> when you least expect it


Oh there have been people sharing stockpiles on social media. They obviously don't care

To be honest I know someone whose always has stockpiled from Groupon anyway, always reminded me of those who coupon on in the US. She's not panic bought though.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Oh there have been people sharing stockpiles on social media. They obviously don't care


Have they no shame!
The little independent chemist in town, that I posted about selling face masks at £5 each
Today had Calpol, baby and 6+, for......
£10 a bottle !!
I thought they were profiteering re the masks
Now I'm just disgustedly, incensed, of Sudbury

My son even reached out from Japan, he had two 5kg sacks of fusili in his cupboard, from long before all this hoarding
He told me to take a sack and share it between my neighbours with young children


----------



## Lurcherlad

Our local Councillor has emailed out asking for volunteers for a number of initiatives starting over the weekend including food collection/distribution, leaflet drops, etc. to help the vulnerable in our area.

Had I not been looking after OH who’s on chemo I would have joined in.

I hope they get a good response.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Have they no shame!
> The little independent chemist in town, that I posted about selling face masks at £5 each
> Today had Calpol, baby and 6+, for......
> £10 a bottle !!
> I thought they were profiteering re the masks
> Now I'm just disgustedly, incensed, of Sudbury
> 
> My son even reached out from Japan, he had two 5kg sacks of fusili in his cupboard, from long before all this hoarding
> He told me to take a sack and share it between my neighbours with young children


They are probably the same people who fill the house with presents at Christmas too... All feels a bit of a competitive sport

Oh yes it's so unjust all this, if you missed it Fetch has put up delivery charges to ridiculous amounts.. It's not as if they will struggle is it in this climate.


----------



## Cully

lorilu said:


> All my neighbors are younger people. 30 somethings, late 20s, like that. Couples and families. I am the only older (not elderly, but at 60 they probably see me as ancient!) person, and the only one who lives alone. We're all home now. All vehicles in every driveway. No one has knocked or even hollered up the window to see how I'm faring. Not a friendly bunch around here, though it used to be before everyone else moved and these new families gradually moved in. Just the casual hello you know or "I saw you were home a lot last week, everything okay?" I've been here 22 years. The families here now don't even wave if we happen to be out at the same time. Turn their backs so they don't have to be friendly.
> 
> Not all communities are brought together by crisis and emergency I guess.


There are 31 flats here for us dinosaurs. It's gone into virtual lockdow. Cant use the communal lounge, even to access our little library. Cant use the communal shower, which is the only way some of us can keep clean. Most of our bath/shower rooms in the flats are way to small for anyone with a disability to be comfortable.
No visitors either.
Hopefully, someone in management will remember us soon!


----------



## havoc

I know our village has a community Facebook page. If yours does then name and shame the profiteers publicly. We’re all going to remember this time and we’re going to remember who deserves our custom.


----------



## purringcats

There seems to be along as I am ok attitude about at the moment especially in the town I live in. I am starting to think to myself what about those that have no roof over their head and how are they going to cope.


----------



## O2.0

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


Not gonna lie, I was in the 'get a grip people' category not very long ago, last week even? IDK I've lost track of time. This whole week has seemed like a year! 
I kept saying either everyone is totally overreacting, or I'm not understanding something. I could not understand the hysteria over what I thought was just another flu like virus.

So I did some reading, listened to some podcasts, and yeah, I wasn't understanding. 
The points that sank in with me:
This is a new virus, humans have not encountered it before, at any point in evolution, and out immune systems have never had any experience with it. The flu mutates every year, but at least our immune systems are familiar with some form of the flu. Our immune systems are completely 'naive' to this virus.

It's rate of contagion will be (and is playing out as predicted) is pretty high, again, no human experience with this virus, so everyone exposed will get it. Whether or not exposed people will get sick or very sick, we don't know, but we do know people are getting it, and thus spreading it.

Our health care system is not equipped to handle a mass infection. For example, here in the US, we don't have enough ventilators for the predicted numbers who might need them. They simply don't exist. Not to mention the personnel and potential for medical workers to get sick and not be available. 
If we can slow the rate of people getting sick, we can give our medical personnel and facilities the ability to do what they need to do. We're not trying to stop people getting sick (nice as that would be), just slow down the numbers over time.

This is not 'just the flu.' Which is where my head was initially. I listened to a couple experts, namely Nicholas A. Christakis from Yale explaining why the analogy to another flu is so wrong. One, it's more severe than the flu, it's rate of contagion is higher, death rate is higher, and our collective resistance to it is non existent. Unlike the flu that many of us just won't get. I'm one of those obnoxious people who never gets a flu shot, works around sick people all through cold and flu season, and never gets sick. This one, I'm not banking on not getting sick.

So while I agree that panic and anxiety is not good, I also think we should listen to the experts, practice social distancing, do what we can to slow the rate of infection. If we're overreacting and things don't get terrible bad - GREAT! But I would hate to under react and cause even worse hardship than we're already experiencing.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I know our village has a community Facebook page. If yours does then name and shame the profiteers publicly. We're all going to remember this time and we're going to remember who deserves our custom.


My view too

Our little market town has set up a pay it forward page
I put up a post asking for gluten free pasta, for son no4,t who has awful IBS, as those shelves have been stripped as well, allegedly by the hoarders once the real stuff ran out.
Within half an hour someone had offerred some, AND, is dropping it off to me in morning
But
Even on that page, a page where people are ransacking their cupboards and offering things like half packs of nappies, as well as food
People are STILL asking if they can have everything anyone is putting up, rather than just one thing, and, leaving the rest for someone else
Selfishness, it seems, knows no limits


----------



## purringcats

The UK health care system is not ready for this either. No one knows how to treat it. It is going to get worse before things start to get better. A friend of mine said that a virus pandemic like this roughly comes around every 100 years 1918 was the Spainish Flu which killed roughly 17 to 50 million people with a high as possibly 100 million people and infected 500 million people.

Information on the Spanish Flu Pandemic:-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu


----------



## Cully

purringcats said:


> Instead of wasting it give it to the foodbank they are crying out for donations as long as the dates are ok on the items.


I don't think the people who shamelessly hoard stuff and deprive others are going to give two hoots about the waste they'll amass.


----------



## JANICE199

SusieRainbow said:


> There are still threads NOT about the virus !


_Oh so now it,s wrong to share my opinion? God how this forum has changed._


----------



## O2.0

@JANICE199 How are things where you are? Has your life been disrupted much? Is there anything you need?


----------



## havoc

JANICE199 said:


> Oh so now it,s wrong to share my opinion?


No but it might have been more fruitful to start a 'don't mention the virus' thread if you want one guaranteed not to include it. The content on this one can't be a surprise, the title gives it away. Would you complain at members discussing their running on the PF runners thread?


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> No but it might have been more fruitful to start a 'don't mention the virus' thread if you want one guaranteed not to include it. The content on this one can't be a surprise, the title gives it away. Would you complain at members discussing their running on the PF runners thread?


Well it did come up there, one member joyful announced the London marathon was cancelled after one member had worked so hard for... Never to be seen again in the thread. That was quite hurtful but they got through it as it's a lovely little group and yes they talk about life too, horses and boxer dogs spring up but it is focused mainly on running that helps clear their head.. However currently it's such a huge thing the virus it effects a lot doesn't it.. But I can see more reason to moan about content on a running thread than this thread dedicated to the virus


----------



## Jesthar

purringcats said:


> The UK health care system is not ready for this either. No one knows how to treat it. It is going to get worse before things start to get better. A friend of mine said that a virus pandemic like this roughly comes around every 100 years 1918 was the Spainish Flu which killed roughly 17 to 50 million people with a high as possibly 100 million people and infected 500 million people.


Oh, give over!  The vast majority of people have been treated for it succesfully - i.e. they're surviving. If you're not aware, the great majority of infectious healthcare still usually involves trying to keep a patient alive long enough for the body to deal with the invader itself. Details of the medicines which are working the best are being passed around the medical community. Vaccines and other further treatments are in development.

Those that sadly don't survive are almost always the ones with major underlying health problems as well. We have a MUCH better knowledge of healthcare and medicine than back in 1918 (which certainly didn't have a healthcare system!), including much better awareness of how these things spread and what we can do to prevent and slow that spread. Plus the massive computing power and manufacturing ability to support R&D and treatment distribution. Whichever way you slice it, we are certainly not looking at mortality rate remotely close to the 1 in 12 to 1 in 5 figures you quoted for the Spanish Flu.

I know we need to take this seriously (and I am), and yes it is going to get worse before it gets better, but there's no point in feeding the fear with such wildly inappropriate comparisons.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> We knew they'd lost a grasp on reality when they voted Corbyn in


They still dont get why he cost them the election. Blaming anyone but themselves!


----------



## cheekyscrip




----------



## purringcats

Jesthar said:


> Oh, give over!  The vast majority of people have been treated for it succesfully - i.e. they're surviving. If you're not aware, the great majority of infectious healthcare still usually involves trying to keep a patient alive long enough for the body to deal with the invader itself. Details of the medicines which are working the best are being passed around the medical community. Vaccines and other further treatments are in development.
> 
> Those that sadly don't survive are almost always the ones with major underlying health problems as well. We have a MUCH better knowledge of healthcare and medicine than back in 1918 (which certainly didn't have a healthcare system!), including much better awareness of how these things spread and what we can do to prevent and slow that spread. Plus the massive computing power and manufacturing ability to support R&D and treatment distribution. Whichever way you slice it, we are certainly not looking at mortality rate remotely close to the 1 in 12 to 1 in 5 figures you quoted for the Spanish Flu.
> 
> I know we need to take this seriously (and I am), and yes it is going to get worse before it gets better, but there's no point in feeding the fear with such wildly inappropriate comparisons.


I was not comparing the Spanish flu to the coronavirus (this pandemic). I was pointing out that there is a pattern that serious pandemics come around roughly every 100 years. Nothing else. If you read this wrong I apologise.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## JANICE199

havoc said:


> No but it might have been more fruitful to start a 'don't mention the virus' thread if you want one guaranteed not to include it. The content on this one can't be a surprise, the title gives it away. Would you complain at members discussing their running on the PF runners thread?


*My comment wasn't aimed at this thread. If i don't like a topic i move on. I was just voicing my opinion in general, no offence was meant.*


----------



## Lurcherlad

JANICE199 said:


> _Oh so now it,s wrong to share my opinion? God how this forum has changed._


No, I don't think it should be.

However, given how serious it is and the obvious anxiety and genuine concern for a lot of people (particularly the vulnerable) it might have come across that you were belittling their concerns and making them feel they were overreacting instead, perhaps, just expressing your own frustration?


----------



## SusieRainbow

JANICE199 said:


> _Oh so now it,s wrong to share my opinion? God how this forum has changed._


I'm sorry @JANICE199, that was how I read it too. 
I agree the forum is taken over with this topic, but I have tried to combine some relevant threads to reduce numbers.
Of course,we are all free to share our opinions, me too.


----------



## Beth78

I'm pleased to be able to help our local Pharmacy with deliveries.
So many elderly and immunocompromised people are self isolating and need medication and necessaries delivered.
I wish I could do more.


----------



## MollySmith

Not by me but someone on Facebook and really too wise not to share.

_Okay. So I've (largely) kept my peace so far on this whole pandemic thing, even though I'm working on it, because I'm not an epidemiologist/virologist/immunologist - and I've seen enough of this stuff over the years to know just how seriously dorky all of that is. When it comes to all that, UK Chief Med Officer Chris Whitty is Da Man and I got nothing. But now a lot of people are talking about going into self isolation, lockdown etc - and that IS something I know a bit about. Like most aid workers, I've been stuck because of hurricanes, home bound due to political crises and once got stranded in a hotel suite in Haiti with a BBC Radio 4 team for four days with only one pair of knickers. I'm also a mental health first aider, and qualified therapist. So let's just say I have a few lessons I've learned the hard way, which mostly boil down to how to take care of yourself and others. And now I'm at home alone with a glass of wine and nothing better to do, so here goes:

REACTIONS: everyone reacts differently to emergencies. Some people information-seek like mad, some get angry, some pick fights (in real life or on social media), some panic, some make a LOT of jokes, some deny the problem, some become terribly terribly active and efficient and want to help, some withdraw and fall off the radar. These are, fundamentally, all coping mechanisms for the same thing, which is at its root a deep sense of fear and loss of control. They're all valid. Bottom line: we'll need to be kind to each other, and that includes if someone is being aggressive or argumentative or overbearing. Experience suggest that we'll all have a bit of a meltdown, and probably a cry, at some point. It's just the way it goes.

RIGHT NOW IS ONE OF THE WORST BITS: the worst bit of crises is that moment when everyone collectively realises the severity of what we are facing and goes, oh shit. The moment at the top of the rollercoaster when we all look down. It's horrible. But it doesn't last. In a little while everything will normalise and find a new rhythm. It'll be a different life, and a (much) harder one for some, but it'll have structure and routine. I've been in camps of disaster survivors a week after an earthquake - and there are always, already, communities reforming, hairdressers opening up, coffee shops. Humans are incredibly adaptable. Also, you are about to find out just how many amazing people you have around you.This is one of the best bits.

THERE WILL BE GOOD BITS. I always struggle to explain why I loved working in crises, but it basically boils down to the fact that when the chips are down, people are just incredible at looking after each other. You'll never see community cohesion, support offered to strangers and kindness like that which emerges in crisis situations. Unimportant things melt away, at least for a while, and stark choices ask of us all: who ARE you? Love your friends and family and take care of them - they are what will get you through this, and you them. You'll see people do amazing things, things you'll never forget. And you'll do amazing things too.

EXERCISE: yoga is great when you're stuck indoors and so are online classes, but if you've got an outdoor area or a bit of space indoors you really can't beat skipping for getting your heart rate up in seconds (and making you feel better). If you don't have a rope, washing line (esp the pastic kind) is an excellent substitute. Even a few minutes and you'll feel loads better (if quite out of breath). Or put on some music and dance dance dance (you won't even have to pretend no one can see you). That will lift your soul as well as your heart rate (hat tip Tania Bernath for that one).

BOOZE: essential, obvs. Hurray for a crisis in which wine stockpiling is an option. But if you can only manage one bottle of spirits, go for vodka. I know, I know - I'm a gin girl myself, but it does tend to need tonic/ice/lemon which can be harder to source than liquor. Vodka can be sloshed into anything, drunk neat and at a, pinch warm. Plus in extremis, it's a decent disinfectant (let's hope you don't need to go there). Having said that, if you insist on gin, Morrisons is doing a litre of bombay sapphire for £18 which is a stone cold steal.

STOCKPILING: Include some treats among the basic. A diet of baked beans/pasta will keep you going, but it will get VERY dull and won't help your mental health. Also, loo paper really doesn't taste great. Easter eggs are half price, people! Chocolate, sweets should all in there if that's your bag, but my top tip is things that keep like cured meats, waxed cheese, and smoked salmon. If you can afford it, do a bit of stockpiling at delis. Delish, better than plain sugar and if it *really* gets bad, excellent in a middle class barter economy (wait till you see what your mates will do for a packet of prosciutto when scarcity really bites).

TRANSPORT: If you haven't got a bike, think about getting one. If you have, get it serviced (did mine today). Definitely going to be the most reliable, safest and healthiest way of getting around in cities at least and when you do go out, and might be only even remotely safe way of socialising for a while. Plus panniers make shopping v convenient. If you have a car, brim it - fuel shortages aren't on the cards right now but better safe than sorry (you taught me that YG).

MAKE USEFUL FRIENDS - with people like your local cornershop owner. Even if they are forced to close, they will have the connections to get you stuff. In Indonesia we agreed to turn a blind eye to a local trader plugging into our electrical supply as long as he stocked my housemate's favorite ciggies (Tim Kassapian Olly Hall remember)?

MEDICINES: If you get Covid you're almost certainly going to have to home treat. Other people will be better placed to advise on this than me (ie take advice from actual medical professionals), but you'll need stuff like painkillers, things like lemsip and detergent to keep your bedding and clothes as disease free as possible. The advice is loads of fluids so things to make water taste nice (my choice is Ribena). I also swear by ORS but that's probably just me.

HELP: Ask for it if you need it - there are no prizes for suffering in silence. The Mutual Aid people are amazing. But there are also, sadly, going to be scammers taking advantage of this situation (already reported in Haringey). Ask for ID and an organiser contact, don't give them money without a receipt and definitely not your bank card. And don't put up with any nonsense: if anyone harasses you, report them.

LIMIT SOCIAL MEDIA, and realise your own susceptibility to rumours. The mill goes mad at times like this. From hot water treatments to believing that the military are about to take over, the myths fly around and we'll ALL fall for at least some of them at some point. It's not stupidity, it's human nature: scared people are really bad at evaluating data and especially risk. Clever people if anything are even more susceptible because they believe they are too smart to fall for misleading info. They are wrong. And don't gloat if you catch them out - it'll be you next.

LIMIT NEWS EXPOSURE: In addition to feeding the rumour mill, spending too much time watching the news will just create stress. Likewise, spend too much time online and sure as COVID is COVID you'll find infinite rabbit holes and do very bad things to your mental health. Staying up all night reading is not going to make you an instant epidemiologist, just sleep deprived which makes everything worse. Ration it, trust reliable sources (like the NHS) and make like the BBC: double source everything you hear, ESPECIALLY if you really want to believe it is true. Turn it off, go outside and feel the spring sunshine.

EXPECT MORE CHANGE: we don't know very much about this bug yet, and the scientists are learning more every day. The advice will alter on that basis. It's not because our evil government is trying to kill us, it's because they're finding out new things all the time about how it affects different groups and what works. This happens in every epidemic: it's weird to us but it's normal-outbreakness (and completely bloody fascinating if you're a nerd, which all outbreak professionals are at heart) (Emma Dreyer you know what I mean).

SMALL GESTURES mean a HUGE amount. Flowers left on someone's doorstep. A card saying I'm thinking of you. A phone call, a direct message. The last slice of aforementioned prosciutto. They take on a real disproportionate impact. I will never forget one particular person arriving in a particularly tight spot with a can of cold diet coke for me. Even tho we're no longer friends that remains. Do the little things, they HUGELY count.

HUMOUR is also uber important. So important that sometimes I see aid worker job descriptions that actually ask for this as a qualification (don't ask me how they test that at interview): never forget the healing power of a good giggle. Especially good with children. Make yourself and the people around you laugh and you'll all feel better (there's actual science around this). Everything from watching comedy shows to sharing memes (the meme game on COVID-19 is impressively on point). If you lose your sense of humour, take that as a warning sign that you're not doing OK.

UNDERLYING PROBLEMS don't go away. One of the things about crises is that they seem like the only show in town. But people's day to day problems don't stop, they only get compounded. If you're in an unhappy relationship, mentally ill, dealing with addiction or infertility, coping with a family death, or your identity has been stolen or you're in a custody battle then these things don't stop - they just get compounded, but everyone else tends to forget. So if this is one of your mates, keep taking care of them on that level too.

ONE DAY IT WILL BE OVER. The day will come when we meet up for drinks, and gather for dinners, and laugh and raise glasses and chat and hug and relax together again. Taste the sweetness of friendship and casual conversation and trivia and a life without this care. Every day we go through this is a day closer to that day. Maybe we'll even be better people in a better world - and one in which we can get a jab for COVID-19 and forget about it, and maybe even one in which the antivaxxers have finally shut the hell up. But if we're not this will have ended. And the rest of our lives - blessed as they are, in this country and continent where we do not face these kind of restrictions and far, FAR worse, every day of our lives, as so many do, and because we live in the age of modern medicine - will be epidemic free. We'll back to the humdrum existence of first world problems, of complaining about nothing - but maybe perhaps with new knowledge of our neighbourhoods and new friends, because that's who the strangers on our streets turned out to be in a pinch. I'm raising a glass tonight, to that today. One day soon, I know we'll raise one together.

And in the meantime, keeping spare knickers in my handbag. Just in case._


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> Not by me but someone on Facebook and really too wise not to share.
> 
> _Okay. So I've (largely) kept my peace so far on this whole pandemic thing, even though I'm working on it, because I'm not an epidemiologist/virologist/immunologist - and I've seen enough of this stuff over the years to know just how seriously dorky all of that is. When it comes to all that, UK Chief Med Officer Chris Whitty is Da Man and I got nothing. But now a lot of people are talking about going into self isolation, lockdown etc - and that IS something I know a bit about. Like most aid workers, I've been stuck because of hurricanes, home bound due to political crises and once got stranded in a hotel suite in Haiti with a BBC Radio 4 team for four days with only one pair of knickers. I'm also a mental health first aider, and qualified therapist. So let's just say I have a few lessons I've learned the hard way, which mostly boil down to how to take care of yourself and others. And now I'm at home alone with a glass of wine and nothing better to do, so here goes:
> 
> REACTIONS: everyone reacts differently to emergencies. Some people information-seek like mad, some get angry, some pick fights (in real life or on social media), some panic, some make a LOT of jokes, some deny the problem, some become terribly terribly active and efficient and want to help, some withdraw and fall off the radar. These are, fundamentally, all coping mechanisms for the same thing, which is at its root a deep sense of fear and loss of control. They're all valid. Bottom line: we'll need to be kind to each other, and that includes if someone is being aggressive or argumentative or overbearing. Experience suggest that we'll all have a bit of a meltdown, and probably a cry, at some point. It's just the way it goes.
> 
> RIGHT NOW IS ONE OF THE WORST BITS: the worst bit of crises is that moment when everyone collectively realises the severity of what we are facing and goes, oh shit. The moment at the top of the rollercoaster when we all look down. It's horrible. But it doesn't last. In a little while everything will normalise and find a new rhythm. It'll be a different life, and a (much) harder one for some, but it'll have structure and routine. I've been in camps of disaster survivors a week after an earthquake - and there are always, already, communities reforming, hairdressers opening up, coffee shops. Humans are incredibly adaptable. Also, you are about to find out just how many amazing people you have around you.This is one of the best bits.
> 
> THERE WILL BE GOOD BITS. I always struggle to explain why I loved working in crises, but it basically boils down to the fact that when the chips are down, people are just incredible at looking after each other. You'll never see community cohesion, support offered to strangers and kindness like that which emerges in crisis situations. Unimportant things melt away, at least for a while, and stark choices ask of us all: who ARE you? Love your friends and family and take care of them - they are what will get you through this, and you them. You'll see people do amazing things, things you'll never forget. And you'll do amazing things too.
> 
> EXERCISE: yoga is great when you're stuck indoors and so are online classes, but if you've got an outdoor area or a bit of space indoors you really can't beat skipping for getting your heart rate up in seconds (and making you feel better). If you don't have a rope, washing line (esp the pastic kind) is an excellent substitute. Even a few minutes and you'll feel loads better (if quite out of breath). Or put on some music and dance dance dance (you won't even have to pretend no one can see you). That will lift your soul as well as your heart rate (hat tip Tania Bernath for that one).
> 
> BOOZE: essential, obvs. Hurray for a crisis in which wine stockpiling is an option. But if you can only manage one bottle of spirits, go for vodka. I know, I know - I'm a gin girl myself, but it does tend to need tonic/ice/lemon which can be harder to source than liquor. Vodka can be sloshed into anything, drunk neat and at a, pinch warm. Plus in extremis, it's a decent disinfectant (let's hope you don't need to go there). Having said that, if you insist on gin, Morrisons is doing a litre of bombay sapphire for £18 which is a stone cold steal.
> 
> STOCKPILING: Include some treats among the basic. A diet of baked beans/pasta will keep you going, but it will get VERY dull and won't help your mental health. Also, loo paper really doesn't taste great. Easter eggs are half price, people! Chocolate, sweets should all in there if that's your bag, but my top tip is things that keep like cured meats, waxed cheese, and smoked salmon. If you can afford it, do a bit of stockpiling at delis. Delish, better than plain sugar and if it *really* gets bad, excellent in a middle class barter economy (wait till you see what your mates will do for a packet of prosciutto when scarcity really bites).
> 
> TRANSPORT: If you haven't got a bike, think about getting one. If you have, get it serviced (did mine today). Definitely going to be the most reliable, safest and healthiest way of getting around in cities at least and when you do go out, and might be only even remotely safe way of socialising for a while. Plus panniers make shopping v convenient. If you have a car, brim it - fuel shortages aren't on the cards right now but better safe than sorry (you taught me that YG).
> 
> MAKE USEFUL FRIENDS - with people like your local cornershop owner. Even if they are forced to close, they will have the connections to get you stuff. In Indonesia we agreed to turn a blind eye to a local trader plugging into our electrical supply as long as he stocked my housemate's favorite ciggies (Tim Kassapian Olly Hall remember)?
> 
> MEDICINES: If you get Covid you're almost certainly going to have to home treat. Other people will be better placed to advise on this than me (ie take advice from actual medical professionals), but you'll need stuff like painkillers, things like lemsip and detergent to keep your bedding and clothes as disease free as possible. The advice is loads of fluids so things to make water taste nice (my choice is Ribena). I also swear by ORS but that's probably just me.
> 
> HELP: Ask for it if you need it - there are no prizes for suffering in silence. The Mutual Aid people are amazing. But there are also, sadly, going to be scammers taking advantage of this situation (already reported in Haringey). Ask for ID and an organiser contact, don't give them money without a receipt and definitely not your bank card. And don't put up with any nonsense: if anyone harasses you, report them.
> 
> LIMIT SOCIAL MEDIA, and realise your own susceptibility to rumours. The mill goes mad at times like this. From hot water treatments to believing that the military are about to take over, the myths fly around and we'll ALL fall for at least some of them at some point. It's not stupidity, it's human nature: scared people are really bad at evaluating data and especially risk. Clever people if anything are even more susceptible because they believe they are too smart to fall for misleading info. They are wrong. And don't gloat if you catch them out - it'll be you next.
> 
> LIMIT NEWS EXPOSURE: In addition to feeding the rumour mill, spending too much time watching the news will just create stress. Likewise, spend too much time online and sure as COVID is COVID you'll find infinite rabbit holes and do very bad things to your mental health. Staying up all night reading is not going to make you an instant epidemiologist, just sleep deprived which makes everything worse. Ration it, trust reliable sources (like the NHS) and make like the BBC: double source everything you hear, ESPECIALLY if you really want to believe it is true. Turn it off, go outside and feel the spring sunshine.
> 
> EXPECT MORE CHANGE: we don't know very much about this bug yet, and the scientists are learning more every day. The advice will alter on that basis. It's not because our evil government is trying to kill us, it's because they're finding out new things all the time about how it affects different groups and what works. This happens in every epidemic: it's weird to us but it's normal-outbreakness (and completely bloody fascinating if you're a nerd, which all outbreak professionals are at heart) (Emma Dreyer you know what I mean).
> 
> SMALL GESTURES mean a HUGE amount. Flowers left on someone's doorstep. A card saying I'm thinking of you. A phone call, a direct message. The last slice of aforementioned prosciutto. They take on a real disproportionate impact. I will never forget one particular person arriving in a particularly tight spot with a can of cold diet coke for me. Even tho we're no longer friends that remains. Do the little things, they HUGELY count.
> 
> HUMOUR is also uber important. So important that sometimes I see aid worker job descriptions that actually ask for this as a qualification (don't ask me how they test that at interview): never forget the healing power of a good giggle. Especially good with children. Make yourself and the people around you laugh and you'll all feel better (there's actual science around this). Everything from watching comedy shows to sharing memes (the meme game on COVID-19 is impressively on point). If you lose your sense of humour, take that as a warning sign that you're not doing OK.
> 
> UNDERLYING PROBLEMS don't go away. One of the things about crises is that they seem like the only show in town. But people's day to day problems don't stop, they only get compounded. If you're in an unhappy relationship, mentally ill, dealing with addiction or infertility, coping with a family death, or your identity has been stolen or you're in a custody battle then these things don't stop - they just get compounded, but everyone else tends to forget. So if this is one of your mates, keep taking care of them on that level too.
> 
> ONE DAY IT WILL BE OVER. The day will come when we meet up for drinks, and gather for dinners, and laugh and raise glasses and chat and hug and relax together again. Taste the sweetness of friendship and casual conversation and trivia and a life without this care. Every day we go through this is a day closer to that day. Maybe we'll even be better people in a better world - and one in which we can get a jab for COVID-19 and forget about it, and maybe even one in which the antivaxxers have finally shut the hell up. But if we're not this will have ended. And the rest of our lives - blessed as they are, in this country and continent where we do not face these kind of restrictions and far, FAR worse, every day of our lives, as so many do, and because we live in the age of modern medicine - will be epidemic free. We'll back to the humdrum existence of first world problems, of complaining about nothing - but maybe perhaps with new knowledge of our neighbourhoods and new friends, because that's who the strangers on our streets turned out to be in a pinch. I'm raising a glass tonight, to that today. One day soon, I know we'll raise one together.
> 
> And in the meantime, keeping spare knickers in my handbag. Just in case._


This is exactly what we need !


----------



## Happy Paws2

Went to Sainbury's at 7.15 it wasn't too crowded and we got most of what we needed will be OK for at least 5 days. Just the Pharmacy closed for a hour so went back after we did the shopping OH went and the queue had over 20 twenty in it, so we'll have to get our prescription later when it's quieter.

I do have food in the freezer for a week but I don't want to touch that yet.


----------



## MilleD

Great post @MollySmith


----------



## Sacrechat

JANICE199 said:


> *Am i the only one sick of hearing about this virus? Get a grip people.*


Seriously!

I think you should listen to this doctor working on the front line with this disease, then maybe you should get a grip:


----------



## Boxerluver30

I am now having to self isolate for 14 days as my housemate is showing symptoms. She works with elderly people so can't risk going into work. Unfortunately for me this means having to cancel two appointments on monday and tuesday as I can't risk going into a hospital (plus it would be downright irresponsible!). This will also possibly affect me going back to work as I'm supposed to be getting an OH refferal in the next week or two and obviously I'll be saying my situation and quoting government advice.

Going to use this opportunity to do something positive at least and do a spring clean of the house so we don't both go stir crazy. Neither of us do well with large periods of doing nothing .

My mum and her dad are available luckily for getting us supplies if needed too for now. I've done an asda online order due this thursday and luckily picked mittens, our cats, stuff up from pets at home yesterday so she is stocked up on litter and food


----------



## Cully

MollySmith said:


> Not by me but someone on Facebook and really too wise not to share.


Thank you for sharing. I read it and cried because it made me feel hopeful.


----------



## JANICE199

Sacremist said:


> Seriously!
> 
> I think you should listen to this doctor working on the front line with this disease, then maybe you should get a grip:


*I have already said my post wasn't meant to be nasty. I wrote what i was thinking. *


----------



## Sacrechat

JANICE199 said:


> *I have already said my post wasn't meant to be nasty. I wrote what i was thinking. *


I've read others responses to you now and I think enough has been said, so I won't add more!


----------



## MilleD

I've taken the opportunity to put up a mirror in the en suite. I shall be undertaking doing some decluttering later. Possibly whilst drinking wine


----------



## Jason25

I’ve emailed my local council to see if there’s anything I can do to help, I want to help people, delivering food to those who can’t get out etc.

I don't speak to many people around my area but wondering if I should stick a card through some of the older people's doors and see if they need their dogs walked or if there's anything I can do to help.


----------



## MilleD

Jason25 said:


> I've emailed my local council to see if there's anything I can do to help, I want to help people, delivering food to those who can't get out etc.
> 
> I don't speak to many people around my area but wondering if I should stick a card through some of the older people's doors and see if they need their dogs walked or if there's anything I can do to help.


I think lots of people are doing that.


----------



## O2.0

Jason25 said:


> I don't speak to many people around my area but wondering if I should stick a card through some of the older people's doors and see if they need their dogs walked or if there's anything I can do to help.


We have a new neighbor - well, new-ish, and we haven't introduced ourselves and it's gotten to the awkward stage of too long since they moved in to do the 'welcome to the neighborhood' thing, plus they've only seen me out running in the dark in the rain so I think they think I'm insane...
Anyway, I finally just bit the bullet and put a note in their mailbox offering whatever they might need. It was very well received and now we both have each others phone number and offers to help.

So long story short - yes, a note to neighbors is a great idea


----------



## Cully

Jason25 said:


> I've emailed my local council to see if there's anything I can do to help, I want to help people, delivering food to those who can't get out etc.
> 
> I don't speak to many people around my area but wondering if I should stick a card through some of the older people's doors and see if they need their dogs walked or if there's anything I can do to help.


Providing you're well, I can't see a problem. It's a kind offer so i wouldn't be suprised if you get quite a few takers. Bless you.


----------



## rona

Anyone noticed that a good number of the key workers are the low paid?


----------



## Magyarmum

I'd intended to take the woofers for a walk, but didn't as it's pouring with rain and blowing a gale. After that, I'd planned to spend the morning cooking, but haven't, apart from making soup.. 

Instead, when I haven't been on PF I've been on Messenger giving all the latest updates from Hungary to my friends in the UK. I feel sorry for them because they've just sold their house and were looking forward to retiring in Hungary. All their plans to move to Hungary next month have had to be cancelled and being "homeless" soon they're in a dilemma what to do. And on top of it all my friend's Hungarian father died about 10 days ago and she can't come over for the funeral or to support her Mum.

I've also made a new FB friend who lives fairly near to me. She's a young American who's now self isolating and I think feeling rather lonely. So we had a long chat and I've told her to contact me whenever she wants to. We both have dogs and as soon as things get back to normal we're going to meet and take our woofers for a long walk together.

And in between all that, got the hell in with my ex dog walker because as per normal, he's spent all his disability payment on booze and now has nothing to eat! I've been cooking every day for him this year, but he was so churlish over it telling me he didn't want it, that I stopped. Now he's mad at me because I'm no longer feeding him. and is asking for money instead - which he ain't getting from me because it'll only go on booze! 

I've told him it's food or nothing, make your choice! I really am a horrid old woman:Cow:Cow


----------



## Boxerluver30

rona said:


> Anyone noticed that a good number of the key workers are the low paid?


Yes and I really hope that is reconsidered after this is all over. Retail workers for example are having to deal with people giving them abuse because of the limit on items now. My housemate works in asda , in the optical department, but was also asked to work on checkouts since she is trained yesterday. She was having to deal with these people all day.

Also NHS frontline staff , they definitely deserve a pay rise. I've been saying for ages it is shameful how little they get paid considering their job. Any emergency services worker too


----------



## Bisbow

Just think of those poor done by footballers who my have to take a pay cut

such a shame :Greedy poor souls


----------



## Boxerluver30

Bisbow said:


> Just think of those poor done by footballers who my have to take a pay cut
> 
> such a shame :Greedy poor souls


My heart bleeds for them


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> Just think of those poor done by footballers who my have to take a pay cut
> 
> such a shame :Greedy poor souls


I was going to say exactly the same thing the overpaid prima donnas. Why they think they have to have so much is beyond me, much rather a well trained nurse was paid well, after all who will be looking after them when they succumb to the virus because they wouldn't stop mixing with their mates in pubs and clubs


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Love this story. Nick Grey of GTech, should be given an award for 'getting stuff done'. His ventilator is waiting for Government approval before it can be mass produced.

*Medical ventilator could be manufactured in a 'matter of days'*

Mr Grey said: "We designed the ventilator entirely from parts that can readily be made from stock materials or bought off-the-shelf.


----------



## MilleD

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Love this story. Nick Grey of GTech, should be given an award for 'getting stuff done'. His ventilator is waiting for Government approval before it can be mass produced.
> 
> *Medical ventilator could be manufactured in a 'matter of days'*
> 
> Mr Grey said: "We designed the ventilator entirely from parts that can readily be made from stock materials or bought off-the-shelf.


That's amazing. He's always annoyed me in the ads, I'll see him differently now


----------



## Magyarmum

An article well worth reading.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17...e-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

*A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> Just think of those poor done by footballers who my have to take a pay cut
> 
> such a shame :Greedy poor souls


Plus the golfers, cricketers, most top sports men and women and pop stars all over paid.


----------



## Siskin

Having a giggle here. My neighbour across the road and I keep sharing meme's and video’s relating to the virus, some of them are just hilarious. I send him ones I find on here and on the golden retriever fb page and he gets his from god knows where, but they are just as funny too. 

It passes the time


----------



## Boxerluver30

Siskin said:


> Having a giggle here. My neighbour across the road and I keep sharing meme's and video's relating to the virus, some of them are just hilarious. I send him ones I find on here and on the golden retriever fb page and he gets his from god knows where, but they are just as funny too.
> 
> It passes the time


I'm finding the memes funny too. I feel bad for laughing at some but then I do have a twisted sense of humour


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> An article well worth reading.
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17...e-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/


I liked that. It seemed reasoned. I read an article earlier on why Italy has such a high death rate, high aged population second only to Japan was a main factor. The older you are the more likely you are to need hospital support which is why our govt is desperate to keep it away from the olds. Other side of that coin is hearing of an eighty year old woman who has had it, needed hospital treatment and is now ready for discharge. We need to hear more of those, not just the fatalities.


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> View attachment 433885


:Hilarious

So by 8 am I was out side M and S with my neighbour , a long queue as they were letting in a few people at a time. i sat on a bench as I cant stand for long and rejoined my neighbour when she reached near the front. They went to close the door in front of us and I said please let me in , Im disabled and showed them my ankle cast under my trousers and they let me in .
They were limiting to two of each thing. I bought my usual ready meals and got the last raw chicken for my sister.

Afterwards , we did our usual trip to the cemetery on the way back home . It was nice and quiet there !


----------



## purringcats

I have had this email from Pet Drugs Online.

Hi (My name removed for privacy purposes),

I just wanted to reach out again to let you know that we're taking every possible measure to look after our customers and our people, who are at the centre of everything we do.

With this in mind, I want to reassure you that we have put in place a number of measures designed to make health and safety a top priority whilst still enabling our staff to pick and send parcels.

Health authorities have been clear that maintaining good hygiene is absolutely critical. Alongside washing our hands thoroughly and regularly, we have introduced a regular "clean down" process throughout the day where areas of multiple contact points get disinfected to guidelines.

*Deliveries*

Just like every other online retailer that supplies essential veterinary products, we are experiencing unprecedented increases in orders. If you think back to the expected delays around Black Friday or Cyber Monday offers, imagine that but more than doubled in quantity. You can begin to appreciate the mammoth task at hand. I can assure you that we are doing everything possible to make sure you receive your parcel on time. But you should expect that there will be delays of up to 72 hours in some cases.

We have implemented a number of measures to manage the increases which include:

• Temporarily suspending all orders from outside the UK.

• Immediate recruitment of extra staff.

• Introduction of new work shifts which enables us to pick and pack up to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week.

*Pet Drugs Online are here to help.*

We know that people's day-to-day lives are disrupted right now because of Coronavirus, and we're working hard to ensure we provide the best service to you during this period.

Our dedicated Customer Service team are available on the phone, Monday to Friday, to answer any questions you may have in regard to your orders or any concerns you may have about your pets, so you know you have the support you need from us. They will also be responding to all emails you may send in as quickly as possible.

But they are also feeling the range of emotions we all are. They are just as worried about their families, their friends and communities. They turn up at work every day with a smile on their face and a genuine belief that what they do actually matters. And it does matter.

All I ask, if you do speak to one of our really fantastic people, please show some understanding and empathy. They will show you the same.

*Food and other necessary goods.*

As a supplier involved in the sale and delivery of key goods, for example, veterinary medicines, we are able to carry on making sure more pets get the medicines, supplements and foods they need. Pet Drugs Online has been privileged to play a role in helping thousands of pets be well and stay well through more than a decade. We will be doing exactly the same thing next week and the week after with your continued support.

Finally, I want to thank you for your co-operation, understanding and patience during these uncertain times. It is down to your continued support that our fantastic people are able to keep deliveries moving across the country.

As well as supporting our staff, we will be sending frequent updates to our customers and please check back on petdrugsonline.co.uk/Coronavirus if you have any concerns.

We are working hard without taking any unnecessary risks to make sure we carry on giving you the best service we can offer.

Be safe, be kind. We will come through this.

*Neil Fitzpatrick*
Managing Director
Pet Drugs Online


----------



## purringcats

I have also had this email from the Post Office CEO.

Dear (My name removed for privacy purposes),

We know how important Post Office branches are to our customers. And we, alongside our postmasters and branch colleagues are doing all that we can to keep our branches open, so that we can continue to provide our products and services to you and your communities.

At the moment, the majority of our branches are open as usual and our supply chain is running as normal. Our priority is to keep our customers, postmasters and colleagues safe and healthy. We have advised everyone working in our branches to practice good hand hygiene and we ask that our customers do the same, as well as maintaining a sensible distance between other customers and our colleagues.

We will keep you updated as the situation evolves. But please rest assured that we are doing everything we can to support our customers, communities, postmasters and colleagues through this challenging time.

*Nick Read, Group Chief Executive Officer*


----------



## kimthecat

Its not possible to keep one metre apart let alone two in the stores. 

Hard to isolate when walking dogs even when there is a lot of space. other dogs run up and the owners have to come and get them or people want to stroke my cute dogs . Im going to take my spiked walking stick with me when we go out next for a walk and poke anyone who comes up too close.


----------



## purringcats

Barclays bank CEO sent me this.

Dear (name removed for privacy purposes),

I'm writing today as I know that coronavirus is a source of concern for many people right now - and I wanted to let you know we're here to help.

Whether you would like additional support with managing your money, or have faced disruption to finances or travel plans, we can work with you to look at ways to make things easier, including:


Mortgage Payments: Repayment holidays on residential mortgages for up to 90 days

Accessing Savings: Removing penalty charges to access fixed savings accounts early

Paying Fees: Stopping late payment and cash advance fees for the next 90 days for credit cards.


For more information on this and managing your finances during this period, you can find our latest advice by visiting our homepage and clicking 'Coronavirus help' - there you'll find links to all the content referenced in this email on pages that will be updated daily.

If you need to access your banking services and are unable to get to a branch, or need to stay at home, there are also a wide range of ways that we can help you there too. I've outlined a number of those below which hopefully you'll find useful.

I appreciate that the circumstances in which we find ourselves at the moment will cause worry. At Barclays we are committed to being responsive to your needs as the situation evolves, and we will continue to be in touch with information and updates.

In the meantime - with best wishes.

Matt Hammerstein
CEO Barclays UK


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Its not possible to keep one metre apart let alone two in the stores.
> 
> Hard to isolate when walking dogs even when there is a lot of space. other dogs run up and the owners have to come and get them or people want to stroke my cute dogs . Im going to take my spiked walking stick with me when we go out next for a walk and poke anyone who comes up too close.


Was queuing in Boots this morning. The shop assistant was asking us to queue this side and respect social distancing. There was 3 of us in the queue and we did our best to honor this. When it was my turn at the till, a young lad just walked up and tried to barge in. The shop assistant said nothing and served him next saying she didn't notice. It could be he was so close to me that she thought he was with me, but I clearly walked away and hadnt uttered a word to him or made eye contact with him.


----------



## purringcats

Coronavirus: Expert says new symptoms could be loss of taste or smell

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ymptoms-could-be-loss-taste-or-smell-11961439


----------



## Boxerluver30

Speaking of shops I was quite concerned at pets at home yesterday. The lady at the till was coughing a lung up, I was standing well away waiting for another staff member to bring my online order out. Really think she would have been better off being told to go home tbh, but then again I'm not sure if they are giving staff sick pay or anything.

I was pleasantly surprised in sainsbury's, we went in and yes the shelves were emptier than usual however not bare like tesco! We managed to get things like bread, milk, toilet paper. So clearly they had cracked down on the panic buyers


----------



## purringcats

People are being asked to stop panic buying and shopping selfishly after NHS workers and other frontline key workers not being able to get supplies for themselves.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1241369614384271366?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1241369614384271366&ref_url=https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-89-new-cases-in-wales-takes-uk-total-past-4-000-11961367


----------



## purringcats

A follow up from my post above. My local Tesco is only serving NHS workers only tomorrow and everyone will be asked to provide proof they are NHS staff. The store is making an exception and will be opening at 9am with Sunday browsing abolished. On Monday and Wednesday they are doing OAP days and others the remainder of the week. My local Tesco store is putting these measures in to make sure everyone gets access to essential supplies and they are only letting people have so much of each item.

My local Tesco seems to be alot more organised than my local Waitrose store.


----------



## Boxerluver30

Heres a good article explaining all supermarket opening hours for nhs staff

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metr...-uk-supermarkets-open-nhs-staff-12433917/amp/


----------



## purringcats

A friend of mine told me her son left school yesterday (Primary School) with a mini laptop (Every pupil in her son's year was given one of these) with instructions to log on to have lessons on Monday at 9am and this will continue for a few hours a day every Monday to Friday. If they fail to logon the teacher will phone their parents. They also have been given set homework to complete on different days. So pupils thought leaving school they would not have any schooling they are wrong 

They are not doing a full schooling day just 2 to 3 hours per day Monday to Friday.

I think is a great idea by the teachers to help stop the children getting bored. I wonder how many other schools have implemented the same?


----------



## Bertie'sMum

purringcats said:


> Coronavirus: Expert says new symptoms could be loss of taste or smell
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ymptoms-could-be-loss-taste-or-smell-11961439


not much help to me as I already suffer with asnosmia (no sense of smell) anyway !


----------



## havoc

My PT has been in touch to set up for remote sessions. Once sorted he asked me to email a list of what home equipment I have so he can programme accordingly. I was very thorough including spec on some.

Apparently ‘1 x German Shepherd - resistance measured in units of stubborn disobedience’ may not pass his risk assessment


----------



## lorilu

For an area where everyone has been told to stay home there is an awful lot of traffic on the roads (I can hear two roads and a highway from my house) In fact it's just as loud as it would be on any Saturday. I would like very much to hop in my car and drive up to my favorite local hiking place, there usually isn't anyone else there. But I'll just be a law abiding citizen instead. I've scrubbed the bathroom in an attempt to get some exercise.  I tried doing laps on the stairs but it upset the cats. As did dancing. I used to dance at home all the time, but these two aren't used to it. I do have a nice hill behind my house where I used to go out and tramp up and down (it's not big so I would just have to walk in circles), but these days its a tick haven in there and has been for several years, so I don't dare.


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> For an area where everyone has been told to stay home there is an awful lot of traffic on the roads (I can hear two roads and a highway from my house) In fact it's just as loud as it would be on any Saturday. I would like very much to hop in my car and drive up to my favorite local hiking place, there usually isn't anyone else there. But I'll just be a law abiding citizen instead. I've scrubbed the bathroom in an attempt to get some exercise.  I tried doing laps on the stairs but it upset the cats. As did dancing. I used to dance at home all the time, but these two aren't used to it. I do have a nice hill behind my house where I used to go out and tramp up and down (it's not big so I would just have to walk in circles), but these days its a tick haven in there and has been for several years, so I don't dare.


I'm so thankful we haven't been told to stay home - yet.

So far just social isolating. Did our usual Saturday errand run and shop. Roads were quieter than usual for a Saturday. All restaurants have been switched to take-out only, even Waffle House is take out only! The joke in the south during hurricane season is that if Waffle House is still open, you're good. but Waffle House had giant signs up saying take out only! Now it's for real!

Stores were hit or miss. Plenty of produce, not a lot of bread, people stocking up on pasta and sauce too. Gosh I hope if they don't eat it all they end up donating it. 
Something was going on at Home Depot 'cause their parking lot was slammed, we didn't look to see what though.

I'm also super thankful that our state parks are all still open, just not doing some activities like guided ranger hikes and group things. But the trails are all still open to hikers thank goodness.

I guess with the exercise you're feeling better? I hope?


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> I'm also super thankful that our state parks are all still open, just not doing some activities like guided ranger hikes and group things. But the trails are all still open to hikers thank goodness.


Yes, I am feeling better today thank you!

We're getting conflicting information. Told to "stay inside" and "stay home" but then told state parks are open and all fees waived. I don't need to drive as far as a state park (25 minutes) I have a nice place I like to hike about 5 minutes drive from me, but for some reason I am afraid to go alone now. I've been hiking those trails for 22 years alone, but all of the sudden I've got this....worry ..about being up there in the woods by myself. I don't know if it's because I am afraid I'll run into someone creepy or if I am afraid I'll fall ill or hurt myself.

It's probably all just paranoia my head has made up but....I can't seem to feel safe to do it. Maybe tomorrow I'll feel differently.


----------



## Siskin

The National Trust have closed buildings and tea rooms, but people can come to gardens and parkland and park for free. However SIL has just messaged me to say that the NT have now had to close gardens as too many people were going and not social distancing enough.


Had a video chat with my daughter and she told me that they have decided tomcancelmtheirncivil partnership which was to be held in May. Only close family were going, but it's unlikely we would have gone and just as unlikely that her partners parents would go as well as although they live in London they are both older then us and he has a weak chest. I had the feeling this would happen, but when this is all over we will have a wonderful day another time


----------



## karenmc

Friday was a very emotional day when our school day ended. Lots of tears both children and teachers.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> The National Trust have closed buildings and tea rooms, but people can come to gardens and parkland and park for free. However SIL has just messaged me to say that the NT have now had to close gardens as too many people were going and not social distancing enough.


West wittering beach has had to close as well, due to the numbers turning up and risking the health of the locals
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51988877


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> West wittering beach has had to close as well, due to the numbers turning up and risking the health of the locals
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51988877


My daughter and her partner went for a walk in their local park this afternoon and there were so many people there doing the same thing they found it difficult to socially distance themselves from others. So they are going for a bike ride tomorrow.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> The National Trust have closed buildings and tea rooms, but people can come to gardens and parkland and park for free. However SIL has just messaged me to say that the NT have now had to close gardens as too many people were going and not social distancing enough.
> 
> Had a video chat with my daughter and she told me that they have decided tomcancelmtheirncivil partnership which was to be held in May. Only close family were going, but it's unlikely we would have gone and just as unlikely that her partners parents would go as well as although they live in London they are both older then us and he has a weak chest. I had the feeling this would happen, but when this is all over we will have a wonderful day another time





rona said:


> West wittering beach has had to close as well, due to the numbers turning up and risking the health of the locals
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51988877


I thought it might be nice to walk at the NT parkland near me. Packed, didn't even get out the car but actually sat in it and had a cry. I just wanted to walk Molly somewhere quiet and all these idiots. We're having to go further from the city to find quiet. It's as if schools out means playtime. It's hopeless.


----------



## lorilu

I don't think I've ever been able to listen to this song without getting tears in my eyes. Now more than ever. Recorded 3/19/20 by Paul Simon: (Thank you Paul)


----------



## willa

My nursery closed yesterday, likely not reopening till September. I can’t get my head around all this, mind boggling. Feel so lost & afraid with the uncertainty of everything


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> My nursery closed yesterday, likely not reopening till September. I can't get my head around all this, mind boggling. Feel so lost & afraid with the uncertainty of everything


Hugs. It's moving so fast isn't it? I hope you'll be paid?


----------



## havoc

willa said:


> My nursery closed yesterday, likely not reopening till September. I can't get my head around all this, mind boggling. Feel so lost & afraid with the uncertainty of everything


It feels as if it could go on forever but it won't. It will pass.
My son and DIL drove 20+ miles this afternoon to leave a Mother's Day gift at my back door. I saw them drive away. We FaceTimed later and I asked why they didn't at least knock and we could at least have spoken from a safe distance. The reason - because my two year old granddaughter wouldn't understand why she couldn't come in to me. It hit me that I won't hug that child for a minimum of twelve weeks. That's hard to take BUT if we get this right I'll get to hug her a lot for years to come. We'll get through it.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mother's Day is going to be hard. I have 2 children and 3 grandsons, the thought of no baking with my oldest grandson (15) and no cuddles or laughs with the younger ones ( 9 and 5) is hard to bear. Much as I hate video calling we will have to do it.
But it won't be for ever, we can make up for lost time.
Love to all affected by the seperation from their loved ones and families. We're all in it together.


----------



## ZoeM

*If you are suffering from anxiety or stress or have mental health problems, please be aware that if you go on https://111.nhs.uk/ or ring 111 you will get a phone consultation with a GP or a nurse. You are not adding to the issue, you need to look after your mental health.

Lines are also in place to deal with any other current health issues you have. Please use them. You are not adding to the strain on the NHS you are looking after yourself and stopping loved ones worrying.

Please also note that prescriptions are being delivered automatically soon. The surgeries know when you got your last prescription so will know when you need it. If you need something urgently, ring 111 or visit the https://111.nhs.uk/ website.*

However, remind yourself when you are congratulating Boris that he disappeared for two weeks recently. Do you think he is worrying as to whether or not what he has had is the virus? He has waited too late, way too late to act on this and now he will be covering his back. He only had to look around the world and follow the world health organisation's lead, and not decide he wanted the UK to get 'herd immunity'.

Already he is shifting the blame onto us, for not staying inside, for going for one last visit with our loved ones, for putting work above the safety of our loved ones because he has ran employee rights into the ground. (Yodel have just laid off half their IT staff without even a letter, in complete disregard for their contracts)

Those of you who have symptoms, please look after yourselves, paracetamol supports your body, don't think you need to go without to try to fight this infection.
Those of you struggling with missing loved ones who feel so far away, you have my absolute sympathy and remember though we can't see our mums and dads in person, we can skype and phone and send lots of photos of our kids.
For anyone who is fearing they have passed this on to a loved one, please remember you didn't know, its not your fault.
For those of you who have to go out and work and put yourselves on the line, you know how to stay 2m away from people. The risk to you is now HUGELY lessened than it was a week ago even though it feels huge right now to you and your families.
For our wonderful fantastic nurses and doctors, care workers, and other HCPs, you are amazing, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the coming months.
Hang on in there, this will pass. xx


----------



## Jason25

MilleD said:


> I think lots of people are doing that.





O2.0 said:


> We have a new neighbor - well, new-ish, and we haven't introduced ourselves and it's gotten to the awkward stage of too long since they moved in to do the 'welcome to the neighborhood' thing, plus they've only seen me out running in the dark in the rain so I think they think I'm insane...
> Anyway, I finally just bit the bullet and put a note in their mailbox offering whatever they might need. It was very well received and now we both have each others phone number and offers to help.
> 
> So long story short - yes, a note to neighbors is a great idea





Cully said:


> Providing you're well, I can't see a problem. It's a kind offer so i wouldn't be suprised if you get quite a few takers. Bless you.


thanks for the replies, I've got a few people in mind, there's one lady I see who walks to the shop every morning to get her paper and I see her on my morning walk so will stop and ask her if she needs help with anything 

did I hear the news correctly that come Monday they want all over 70 and people with serious health conditions to stay in for 12 weeks?

my dad is close to 70 and I've tried telling him he needs to be a bit more cautious but the stubborn old man won't listen. You can't tell him anything. A little bit stuck in his ways I think :Banghead:Facepalm


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> It feels as if it could go on forever but it won't. It will pass.
> My son and DIL drove 20+ miles this afternoon to leave a Mother's Day gift at my back door. I saw them drive away. We FaceTimed later and I asked why they didn't at least knock and we could at least have spoken from a safe distance. The reason - because my two year old granddaughter wouldn't understand why she couldn't come in to me. It hit me that I won't hug that child for a minimum of twelve weeks. That's hard to take BUT if we get this right I'll get to hug her a lot for years to come. We'll get through it.


I think we can forget the impact this is having on the little ones too.

DomRep are in lock down and my 3 year old great niece who usually goes to nursery with her best buddy is obviously missing her and her normal routine and is very unsettled.

They can at least walk up the hill to my sister and BIL which will wear off some energy and break the day up but it's bound to feel very strange and, of course, she won't understand why her routine has changed. It could also cause a few issues when she has to be left again at nursery having got used to being with her mum 24/7.


----------



## willa

MollySmith said:


> Hugs. It's moving so fast isn't it? I hope you'll be paid?


Paid as normal until start of next term ( mid April ) then not sure what'll happen. Saw the government will pay 80%


----------



## Cleo38

My mum is not doing well atm, her lung cancer is getting worse & this means she is starting to experience respiratory problems. She is still able to walk but does get breathless more quickly than usual. She is (or was!) a very sociable person, going out every day: to the gym, meeting friends for lunch, to London galleries, museums, etc. This self isolating is affecting her so badly & I am so worried about her mental health.

I am self isolating & have been for the past two weeks which I continue to do so. The only contact I will have this week is with my dog's physio (which I am debating about going to). So … my question is I want to continue seeing my mum on a weekly basis as she is struggling so much & feel I am very low risk. I realise that all visiting should be avoided but my mum is deteriorating far quicker than I imagined & she thinks this is due to her MH rather than physical changes that are happening. Should I stop seeing her or carry on as I am as I am such low risk?

(I realise that people here aren't experts btw!)


----------



## MilleD

ZoeM said:


> *If you are suffering from anxiety or stress or have mental health problems, please be aware that if you go on https://111.nhs.uk/ or ring 111 you will get a phone consultation with a GP or a nurse. You are not adding to the issue, you need to look after your mental health.
> 
> Lines are also in place to deal with any other current health issues you have. Please use them. You are not adding to the strain on the NHS you are looking after yourself and stopping loved ones worrying.
> 
> Please also note that prescriptions are being delivered automatically soon. The surgeries know when you got your last prescription so will know when you need it. If you need something urgently, ring 111 or visit the https://111.nhs.uk/ website.*
> 
> However, remind yourself when you are congratulating Boris that he disappeared for two weeks recently. Do you think he is worrying as to whether or not what he has had is the virus? He has waited too late, way too late to act on this and now he will be covering his back. He only had to look around the world and follow the world health organisation's lead, and not decide he wanted the UK to get 'herd immunity'.
> 
> Already he is shifting the blame onto us, for not staying inside, for going for one last visit with our loved ones, for putting work above the safety of our loved ones because he has ran employee rights into the ground. (Yodel have just laid off half their IT staff without even a letter, in complete disregard for their contracts)
> 
> Those of you who have symptoms, please look after yourselves, paracetamol supports your body, don't think you need to go without to try to fight this infection.
> Those of you struggling with missing loved ones who feel so far away, you have my absolute sympathy and remember though we can't see our mums and dads in person, we can skype and phone and send lots of photos of our kids.
> For anyone who is fearing they have passed this on to a loved one, please remember you didn't know, its not your fault.
> For those of you who have to go out and work and put yourselves on the line, you know how to stay 2m away from people. The risk to you is now HUGELY lessened than it was a week ago even though it feels huge right now to you and your families.
> For our wonderful fantastic nurses and doctors, care workers, and other HCPs, you are amazing, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the coming months.
> Hang on in there, this will pass. xx


I know you're angry, but the government are doing their best under unprecedented conditions.

It's the people not following advice that are to blame if anyone if we don't get a handle on this to relieve the pressure on the NHS.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I know you're angry, but the government are doing their best under unprecedented conditions.
> 
> It's the people not following advice that are to blame if anyone if we don't get a handle on this to relieve the pressure on the NHS.


If tories hadn't closed so many hospital beds and closing wards and getting rid of so many nurses in their time in government, the NHS wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> If tories hadn't closed so many hospital beds and closing wards and getting rid of so many nurses in their time in government, the NHS wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.


The UK could have had the best health care system in the world and still wouldn't be able to cope with the pandemic!


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> If tories hadn't closed so many hospital beds and closing wards and getting rid of so many nurses in their time in government, the NHS wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.


----------



## lullabydream

Cleo38 said:


> My mum is not doing well atm, her lung cancer is getting worse & this means she is starting to experience respiratory problems. She is still able to walk but does get breathless more quickly than usual. She is (or was!) a very sociable person, going out every day: to the gym, meeting friends for lunch, to London galleries, museums, etc. This self isolating is affecting her so badly & I am so worried about her mental health.
> 
> I am self isolating & have been for the past two weeks which I continue to do so. The only contact I will have this week is with my dog's physio (which I am debating about going to). So … my question is I want to continue seeing my mum on a weekly basis as she is struggling so much & feel I am very low risk. I realise that all visiting should be avoided but my mum is deteriorating far quicker than I imagined & she thinks this is due to her MH rather than physical changes that are happening. Should I stop seeing her or carry on as I am as I am such low risk?
> 
> (I realise that people here aren't experts btw!)


The advise I was given when my mum had terminal cancer was stay away if you are ill 
You are doing really well self isolating, fit and healthy. 
It's a double edge sword to be honest but I think mum would benefit from seeing her daughter to be honest. You would benefit seeing your mum too. It must be terrible for people in your mums position and your own.
I worried when my mum was ill because I had small children at the time and we know how easily they pick up any little bug then mutate it. This of course is on a hugely immense scale that we can hardly comprehend ourselves.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> The UK could have had the best health care system in the world and still wouldn't be able to cope with the pandemic!





MilleD said:


>


You may roll your eyes but if NHS wasn't so short staffed in the first place, and we all know they were, they would be in a better position. I'm not saying there would be able to cope with the pandemic, but they would have been in a better place than they are now,


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> You may roll your eyes but if NHS wasn't so short staffed in the first place, and we all know they were, they would be in a better position. I'm not saying there would be able to cope with the pandemic, but they would have been in a better place than they are now,


I could say something similar about the Hungarian NHS. If there weren't so many of our doctors and nurses working in the UK the Hungarian NHS would be in a better position to deal with the pandemic than it is now..


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> You may roll your eyes but if NHS wasn't so short staffed in the first place, and we all know they were, they would be in a better position. I'm not saying there would be able to cope with the pandemic, but they would have been in a better place than they are now,


Yes, and Labour had absolutely nothing to do with any of it? Only the Conservatives?

Please change the record, we are where we are and there's no point talking about the what ifs. What we need to do now is FOLLOW THE ADVICE.

Unlike all the kids playing in the play parks, people going to the beach, people mixing with others going out walking, people thinking it's ok to throw parties.

Yes, all that is happening and THAT is why we will have a catastrophe on our hands.


----------



## Cleo38

lullabydream said:


> The advise I was given when my mum had terminal cancer was stay away if you are ill
> You are doing really well self isolating, fit and healthy.
> It's a double edge sword to be honest but I think mum would benefit from seeing her daughter to be honest. You would benefit seeing your mum too. It must be terrible for people in your mums position and your own.
> I worried when my mum was ill because I had small children at the time and we know how easily they pick up any little bug then mutate it. This of course is on a hugely immense scale that we can hardly comprehend ourselves.


Yes, it is easier for me as I live on my own, I am working from home (have been now for 2wks), I saw one person (other than my mum) in that time & she is also self isolating. I am also fit & healthy atm. I feel so torn as in some ways guidelines would suggest no contact but I know that this might impact my mum mentally even further & then it is very difficult to get out of that mindset if a person is totally isolated.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, it is easier for me as I live on my own, I am working from home (have been now for 2wks), I saw one person (other than my mum) in that time & she is also self isolating. I am also fit & healthy atm. I feel so torn as in some ways guidelines would suggest no contact but I know that this might impact my mum mentally even further & then it is very difficult to get out of that mindset if a person is totally isolated.


I don't know if you mum is at all technically minded, but what about one of the video chat apps? Zoom is a good one. Or even what's app video?


----------



## purringcats

As from today I am not going into the town I live in as it is crazy to see that there is so many people around in the town that I live in and they are not complying with the social distancing advice at all. Also in the supermarkets and shops people are not keeping the recommended distance from each other which is currently 2 metres. If someone caught covid-19 it would spread very quickly in my town at the moment which is very worrying.

I have enough in supplies wise to keep me going now with weekly home delivery slots to top this up and enough in to entertain me. I have made a list of jobs that need doing that I have been meaning to do for ages and I will slowly get them done. There is always the garden to sit out in if the weather permits. I found a set of exercises to do at home to keep me going.


----------



## willa

I’m in middle of course of dental treatment. Meant to be having appointment next week to have temporary filling replaced with permanent filling on root canalled tooth. Dentist said The temporary filling will only last for around another 4 weeks or so . 
I know tiny insignificant problem but what do i do ?


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> I'm in middle of course of dental treatment. Meant to be having appointment next week to have temporary filling replaced with permanent filling on root canalled tooth. Dentist said The temporary filling will only last for around another 4 weeks or so .
> I know tiny insignificant problem but what do i do ?


I think I would wait to see if it starts giving you any trouble.

They must be able to treat people because they will have emergencies. I've had a few emails from mine saying what precautions they are taking.


----------



## willa

MilleD said:


> I think I would wait to see if it starts giving you any trouble.
> 
> They must be able to treat people because they will have emergencies. I've had a few emails from mine saying what precautions they are taking.


Been looking on google & seems they have banned all treatment that involves any spray.So fillings seem to be banned then .
This could get interesting


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> Been looking on google & seems they have banned all treatment that involves any spray.So fillings seem to be banned then .
> This could get interesting


I recently had a 'temporary' filling (where they use a funny lamp thing to harden it) and when I went back (she said it would last 2 weeks), the dentist asked if I'd had any trouble with it and when I said it had been ok, she said she might as well leave it in.

I requested that not happen in case I had to go back again (hate dentists), but I do wonder how temporary their temporary fillings are sometimes.


----------



## willa

MilleD said:


> I recently had a 'temporary' filling (where they use a funny lamp thing to harden it) and when I went back (she said it would last 2 weeks), the dentist asked if I'd had any trouble with it and when I said it had been ok, she said she might as well leave it in.
> 
> I requested that not happen in case I had to go back again (hate dentists), but I do wonder how temporary their temporary fillings are sometimes.


I already had this temporary in for a month


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> If tories hadn't closed so many hospital beds and closing wards and getting rid of so many nurses in their time in government, the NHS wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.





Happy Paws2 said:


> You may roll your eyes but if NHS wasn't so short staffed in the first place, and we all know they were, they would be in a better position. I'm not saying there would be able to cope with the pandemic, but they would have been in a better place than they are now,


Honestly. If if if
If people had looked after themselves better and not created an obese epidemic,with it's increased heart disease and diabetes then there wouldn't be a shortage of nurses or doctors for day today health care


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> If tories hadn't closed so many hospital beds and closing wards and getting rid of so many nurses in their time in government, the NHS wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.


And if individuals weren't being so damned stupid we wouldn't risk the NHS being overwhelmed. There's no such thing as capacity for a pandemic however much money you pour in when the population you serve refuse to take any responsibility for their own health.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> And if individuals weren't being so damned stupid we wouldn't risk the NHS being overwhelmed. There's no such thing as capacity for a pandemic however much money you pour in when the population you serve refuse to take any responsibility for their own health.


For instance:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504

Apologies if this has already be posted...


----------



## Psygon

MilleD said:


> For instance:
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504
> 
> Apologies if this has already be posted...


Wow... Just wow.

I'd get this a little bit if we'd been in lockdown for ages but it's hardly been anytime at all. I think people think this is a holiday...


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> For instance:
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504


To be fair I don't see that as irresponsible at this stage. Exercise is important and each individual family probably thought they were doing a reasonable thing. Problem is they all thought of the same thing. Hopefully it's just teething problems as people settle into the new norm.


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> I'd get this a little bit if we'd been in lockdown for ages but it's hardly been anytime at all.


Well we're obviously already stir crazy in this household - exchange just now between OH and I -
Him - want a coffee?
Me - no thanks I had one just before walking the dog
Him - too early for a rum & coke?


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> To be fair I don't see that as irresponsible at this stage. Exercise is important and each individual family probably thought they were doing a reasonable thing. Problem is they all thought of the same thing. Hopefully it's just teething problems as people settle into the new norm.


Yes, but it's been at least 5 seconds since the announcement was made - what's going to happen when we've had nothing to do for 2 months?


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Well we're obviously already stir crazy in this household - exchange just now between OH and I -
> Him - want a coffee?
> Me - no thanks I had one just before walking the dog
> Him - too early for a rum & coke?


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Yes, but it's been at least 5 seconds since the announcement was made - what's going to happen when we've had nothing to do for 2 months?


I get that but it was also decent weather at the end of winter. I'm not saying I think it was right, just understandable. I'm hoping it will calm down - mind you I hoped panic buying would calm down too so don't listen to me. I obviously over estimated the intelligence of the great British public big time


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, it is easier for me as I live on my own, I am working from home (have been now for 2wks), I saw one person (other than my mum) in that time & she is also self isolating. I am also fit & healthy atm. I feel so torn as in some ways guidelines would suggest no contact but I know that this might impact my mum mentally even further & then it is very difficult to get out of that mindset if a person is totally isolated.


Given you're taking all precautions and mum's condition is terminal I'd be inclined to go with the quality of life stance and visit her to keep her as happy as possible for however long she has left tbh.

I also think it means you'll have some company and can protect your own mental health as you won't be so worried about hers.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I recently had a 'temporary' filling (where they use a funny lamp thing to harden it) and when I went back (she said it would last 2 weeks), the dentist asked if I'd had any trouble with it and when I said it had been ok, she said she might as well leave it in.
> 
> I requested that not happen in case I had to go back again (hate dentists), but I do wonder how temporary their temporary fillings are sometimes.


My MIL has had one for years - she had to cancel the next appointment and just never went back for the permanent filling.

If it's not giving any trouble I'd leave it for now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> I get that but it was also decent weather at the end of winter. I'm not saying I think it was right, just understandable. I'm hoping it will calm down - mind you I hoped panic buying would calm down too so don't listen to me. I obviously over estimated the intelligence of the great British public big time


I can understand everyone thinking it was a good idea to get out in the fresh air and they probably didn't consider that everyone else would have the same idea! 

However, had we pulled into a packed car park and seen the crowds we would have abandoned our plan.


----------



## Siskin

A friend is in the same position as you @willa over a filling needing to be done. She went to the dentist during the week and was told she couldn't have the filling done as it would involve a drill with a spray which would mean germs could be thrown around the room. She had a substance spread over the tooth and hole and told to use sensitive type toothpaste and smear that over the tooth.

My daughter told me that they went for a walk in their local park only to find that it was so packed with people that they couldn't always manage to socially distance themselves. They are going on a bike ride today so they can cycle away from others.

There's reports from all over the country of crowds descending on beauty spots, holiday areas, beaches and NT gardens.The reason for self isolation seems to escaped them and as someone else has said it's just being treated as a holiday and to hell with the locals. Cornwall is pleading with people not to come there as they just can't cope with panic buying in their shops nor their smaller hospitals suitable for the local population being overwhelmed by sick incomers. A friend says the same thing has happened in Southwold in Suffolk. People, I suspect many are Londoners, have come to their second homes and are swamping the place. Southwold had two tiny supermarkets plus a grocers and a couple of butchers and bakers. They cannot cope with this extra influx of people who think they have a 3-4 months holiday in the Suffolk sunshine. Beaches are being closed round the country just to keep people off them and in the hope they will go home and stop being so stupid.

It's one thing going for a walk to keep yourself fit and mentally healthy, but behaving inresonsibly like this puts a whole load of other people at risk. I'm still cross the Cheltenham festival went ahead a week or so ago. There are now a number of CV19 cases in Cheltenham and in the hospital, the very same hospital that I'm regularly going to have my radiotherapy treatment


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> And if individuals weren't being so damned stupid we wouldn't risk the NHS being overwhelmed. There's no such thing as capacity for a pandemic however much money you pour in when the population you serve refuse to take any responsibility for their own health.


Worst thing they did was ditching student nurses bursary, that drastically dropped the numbers...well, that and closing a bunch of hospitals obviously! Truth is that most hospital run by the grace of agency staff who just work when they want to, alot of whom dont want to come to work with all this going on.
Im starting to get really, really worried now. Ive had nightmare shifts before with local emergencies or a spate of deaths but the thought of doing it for weeks fills me with dread.



Lurcherlad said:


> I can understand everyone thinking it was a good idea to get out in the fresh air and they probably didn't consider that everyone else would have the same idea!
> 
> However, had we pulled into a packed car park and seen the crowds we would have abandoned our plan.


TBH I think the government just needs to bring out the jackboot and start ordering people rather then suggesting. Whilst most people are sensible there are enough idiots who think they know better to ruin things for everyone. If you cant trust the stupidest members of the herd to act in their best interests then maybe they need a few less choices to **** up!?


----------



## Psygon

Just seen on The Guardian, that petsathome are being criticized for claiming store workers are key workers. I think partly is due to the fact the letter asks anyone to contact their legal team, and partly because it's not key work.

This is the tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1241390189102186497


----------



## Cleo38

Lurcherlad said:


> Given you're taking all precautions and mum's condition is terminal I'd be inclined to go with the quality of life stance and visit her to keep her as happy as possible for however long she has left tbh.
> 
> I also think it means you'll have some company and can protect your own mental health as you won't be so worried about hers.


Yes, I think it's worth taking the risk & have given her the option to tell me not to visit if she feels I would be a risk to her. It's a diffuclt time anyway made far worse by this pandemic.

I'm doing ok, luckily I have my sister for support (phone), friends on social media, etc. Funny how my mum & me are so different, I love this self isolating stuff as it's more in keeping with my normal behaviour but for her it is crippling


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> A friend is in the same position as you @willa over a filling needing to be done. She went to the dentist during the week and was told she couldn't have the filling done as it would involve a drill with a spray which would mean germs could be thrown around the room. She had a substance spread over the tooth and hole and told to use sensitive type toothpaste and smear that over the tooth.
> 
> My daughter told me that they went for a walk in their local park only to find that it was so packed with people that they couldn't always manage to socially distance themselves. They are going on a bike ride today so they can cycle away from others.
> 
> There's reports from all over the country of crowds descending on beauty spots, holiday areas, beaches and NT gardens.The reason for self isolation seems to escaped them and as someone else has said it's just being treated as a holiday and to hell with the locals. Cornwall is pleading with people not to come there as they just can't cope with panic buying in their shops nor their smaller hospitals suitable for the local population being overwhelmed by sick incomers. A friend says the same thing has happened in Southwold in Suffolk. People, I suspect many are Londoners, have come to their second homes and are swamping the place. Southwold had two tiny supermarkets plus a grocers and a couple of butchers and bakers. They cannot cope with this extra influx of people who think they have a 3-4 months holiday in the Suffolk sunshine. Beaches are being closed round the country just to keep people off them and in the hope they will go home and stop being so stupid.
> 
> It's one thing going for a walk to keep yourself fit and mentally healthy, but behaving inresonsibly like this puts a whole load of other people at risk. I'm still cross the Cheltenham festival went ahead a week or so ago. There are now a number of CV19 cases in Cheltenham and in the hospital, the very same hospital that I'm regularly going to have my radiotherapy treatment


Absolutely agree. 
In some ways I don't think the national trust has helped, they have opened everywhere for free. Which of course encouraged people to visit en masse to places at this time of year, aren't particularly busy. I know there are often acres of land, but most people are going in the same area and not social distancing as others have said. It's often been very much the same from what I have seen anyway.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> TBH I think the government just needs to bring out the jackboot and start ordering people rather then suggesting.


It could happen if people don't calm down. In a couple of weeks we should know if the latest round of restrictions are making any difference and if they aren't enough it can only get tougher.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> In some ways I don't think the national trust has helped,


Agree 100%. That announcement was all but an invitation.


----------



## Magyarmum

Because all the churches are closed in Hungary some friends of mine are joining in the online morning service in Cape Town South Africa!

My son and DIL live in Cornwall and to get away from everyone they stocked their catamaran up with supplies and are now moored in the middle of the Helford Estuary.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Anyone watching The Andrew Marr Show, if not watch on i-player and listen to what the nurse and doctor, at the start of the show say about protective clothing, which according the the Health Minister says they'll all get by today.


----------



## Bisbow

My daughter. a newly qualified district nurse said they had plenty of protective clothing and are expecting more net week

She said as most of her patients are housebound she is more likely to give them the virus than catch it from them


----------



## Sacrechat

rona said:


> Honestly. If if if
> If people had looked after themselves better and not created an obese epidemic,with it's increased heart disease and diabetes then there wouldn't be a shortage of nurses or doctors for day today health care


What about smokers and people who take drugs. Why don't we attack those too!


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> My mum is not doing well atm, her lung cancer is getting worse & this means she is starting to experience respiratory problems. She is still able to walk but does get breathless more quickly than usual. She is (or was!) a very sociable person, going out every day: to the gym, meeting friends for lunch, to London galleries, museums, etc. This self isolating is affecting her so badly & I am so worried about her mental health.
> 
> I am self isolating & have been for the past two weeks which I continue to do so. The only contact I will have this week is with my dog's physio (which I am debating about going to). So … my question is I want to continue seeing my mum on a weekly basis as she is struggling so much & feel I am very low risk. I realise that all visiting should be avoided but my mum is deteriorating far quicker than I imagined & she thinks this is due to her MH rather than physical changes that are happening. Should I stop seeing her or carry on as I am as I am such low risk?
> 
> (I realise that people here aren't experts btw!)


I asked one of the doctors in the family for advice on visiting older people on behalf of a friend I have who cleans for several pensioners and was worried if they should take extra precautions. They said:

"Not really. Social distancing from them (2m), wash hands thoroughly at the beginning and the end, do NOT go if she feels ill"

I should add they were also talking about how much strain the NHS is under, so they wouldn't have give this advice if they thought there was any risk in it.

There are alternatives too - my bro has taught my Mum how to Facetime!  Someone mentioned Zoom too, I'm using that for church services and othe clubs/groups too.


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> I asked one of the doctors in the family for advice on visiting older people on behalf of a friend I have who cleans for several pensioners and was worried if they should take extra precautions. They said:
> 
> "Not really. Social distancing from them (2m), wash hands thoroughly at the beginning and the end, do NOT go if she feels ill"
> 
> I should add they were also talking about how much strain the NHS is under, so they wouldn't have give this advice if they thought there was any risk in it.
> 
> There are alternatives too - my bro has taught my Mum how to Facetime!  Someone mentioned Zoom too, I'm using that for church services and othe clubs/groups too.


Thanks for that. I am doing that, always making sure I feel ok, washing my hands before I drive there then when I get there, no physical contact, etc. I am ringing her twice a day & we have a family What's App group. I'll definitely think I'll suggest Facetime to her … once I understand how to do it


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Honestly. If if if
> If people had looked after themselves better and not created an obese epidemic,with it's increased heart disease and diabetes then *there wouldn't be a shortage of nurses or doctors for day today health care*


You can't say that, we have had a shortage of Doctors and Nurses for years, how often have you hear someone has an operation canceled as they don't have the beds or the staff too looked after them, or you need an appointment and you have too wait months. Or when you are in hospital you you only have 4 Nurses too look after twelve patiences.


----------



## Cully

Just my opinion but I wish people would stop banging on about what is in the past. It can't be changed but hopefully lessons will be learned. Meanwhile we should all concentrate on the 'now' to help everyone through this. That's what is really going to help.


----------



## ZoeM

havoc said:


> It feels as if it could go on forever but it won't. It will pass.
> My son and DIL drove 20+ miles this afternoon to leave a Mother's Day gift at my back door. I saw them drive away. We FaceTimed later and I asked why they didn't at least knock and we could at least have spoken from a safe distance. The reason - because my two year old granddaughter wouldn't understand why she couldn't come in to me. It hit me that I won't hug that child for a minimum of twelve weeks. That's hard to take BUT if we get this right I'll get to hug her a lot for years to come. We'll get through it.


That brought me to tears. I am so glad you are sacrificing a few weeks with your loved ones, but thinking of the time in a few months when you can hug the bones out of them. Sending so many hugs your way. xx


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> If people had looked after themselves better and not created an obese epidemic,with it's increased heart disease and diabetes then there wouldn't be a shortage of nurses or doctors for day today health care


Isn't this rather judgemental ?
I am overweight, T2 diabetic, eat healthily,excercise daily, follow weight watchers and gave up smoking 10 years ago. Until 12 years ago worked in the NHS.
My age and diabetes puts me in a fairly high risk category. I consider that I follow a pretty healthy lifestyle but you're saying that if it wasn't for people like me the NHS wouldn't be struggling to cope.
Not all such heath issues are 'self inflicted', there are genetic factors to be considered too.


----------



## ZoeM

willa said:


> I'm in middle of course of dental treatment. Meant to be having appointment next week to have temporary filling replaced with permanent filling on root canalled tooth. Dentist said The temporary filling will only last for around another 4 weeks or so .
> I know tiny insignificant problem but what do i do ?


 If you go on the website https://111.nhs.uk/Location there is a section about if you need dental help. You will be able to visit as long as you aren't self isolating with a cough and fever.

Take care x


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> Isn't this rather judgemental ?
> I am overweight, T2 diabetic, eat healthily,excercise daily, follow weight watchers and gave up smoking 10 years ago. Until 12 years ago worked in the NHS.
> My age and diabetes puts me in a fairly high risk category. I consider that I follow a pretty healthy lifestyle but you're saying that if it wasn't for people like me the NHS wouldn't be struggling to cope.
> Not all such heath issues are 'self inflicted', there are genetic factors to be considered too.


I took @rona 's post as being sarcasm rather than judgemental. People were saying if the government didn't do this or of the government did to that..so she simply took it a step further to show how pointless those kind of comments are. I could be wrong though, but that's how I read her comment.


----------



## SusieRainbow

lorilu said:


> I took @rona 's post as being sarcasm rather than judgemental. People were saying if the government didn't do this or of the government did to that..so she simply took it a step further to show how pointless those kind of comments are. I could be wrong though, but that's how I read her comment.


Fair enough then, perhaps i'm a bit over-sensitive. I do hear quite a lot of judgemental comments about type2 diabetes though.
Thanks for that.


----------



## lorilu

Hey everyone here's a timely reminder that I should have heeded myself 10 minutes ago: BE CAREFUL of minor common household accidents. Take your time to do things. 

I've just sliced my finger open with the scissors I use to cut the cats' raw meat. It's a shallow cut and has bled freely and I've disinfected it, put some bacitracin on it and bandaged it up. But it could have been much worse. 

I was rushing to wash the dishes (why on earth would I need to rush for crying out loud, I'm going nowhere) and was careless. Lesson learned...I hope.


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone watching The Andrew Marr Show, if not watch on i-player and listen to what the nurse and doctor, at the start of the show say about protective clothing, which according the the Health Minister says they'll all get by today.


Sadly too late for three NHS Ent medics now on ventilators


----------



## MollySmith




----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> Hey everyone here's a timely reminder that I should have heeded myself 10 minutes ago: BE CAREFUL of minor common household accidents. Take your time to do things.
> 
> I've just sliced my finger open with the scissors I use to cut the cats' raw meat. It's a shallow cut and has bled freely and I've disinfected it, put some bacitracin on it and bandaged it up. But it could have been much worse.
> 
> I was rushing to wash the dishes (why on earth would I need to rush for crying out loud, I'm going nowhere) and was careless. Lesson learned...I hope.


I thought exactly this earlier. I cut myself yesterday and today it's a bit purple around the cut. It hasn't helped that I've just rubbed an oxo cube into it!

But it did occur that I don't want to get an infection from such a minor thing . Been to dig my savlon out...


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> But it did occur that I don't want to get an infection from such a minor thing . Been to dig my savlon out...


Savlon has always been my 'go to' for any minor first aid for many years. I keep several tubes handy. If Misty scratches me it's the first thing I reach for and reduces any redness in seconds. Brilliant stuff!


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> Isn't this rather judgemental ?
> I am overweight, T2 diabetic, eat healthily,excercise daily, follow weight watchers and gave up smoking 10 years ago. Until 12 years ago worked in the NHS.
> My age and diabetes puts me in a fairly high risk category. I consider that I follow a pretty healthy lifestyle but you're saying that if it wasn't for people like me the NHS wouldn't be struggling to cope.
> Not all such heath issues are 'self inflicted', there are genetic factors to be considered too.


I'm the last that would do that, my father was very overweight through no fault of his own. I myself have high blood pressure and bad teeth due I'm told more from hereditary than lifestyle.
BUT........you have to acknowledge that many people these days over eat and then blame everyone else for their conditions


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> I'm the last that would do that, my father was very overweight through no fault of his own. I myself have high blood pressure and bad teeth due I'm told more from hereditary than lifestyle.
> BUT........you have to acknowledge that many people these days over eat and then blame everyone else for their conditions


Yes, sorry Rona but it's a touchy subject with me . I get judgemental comments from people who should know better and it hurts.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Ivyyx said:


> Hi everyone, my situation is this. Im a Kuwaiti student in the UK, Liverpool. Due to this pandemic happening, my government is trying to evacuate all citizens back home, not sure when but probably within a week or two. I've got a cat and usually leave him with friends or a cattery when i go on holidays, but in this circumstance Im not sure exactly when will I return and catteries are quite costly especially as I dont know how long I'll be over for. I really dont want to re-home him just desperately looking for anyone who can take care of him while Im away, I will provide money for his food and anything needed. If anyone can help or knows of anyone who could be of assistance in the liverpool area i would be most appreciative, Message or reply for more details


Re-post this on Cat Chat you'll get more advise on there.


----------



## Siskin

What is it that people don't understand about social distancing and staying at home

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51995092


----------



## Sacrechat

SusieRainbow said:


> Isn't this rather judgemental ?
> I am overweight, T2 diabetic, eat healthily,excercise daily, follow weight watchers and gave up smoking 10 years ago. Until 12 years ago worked in the NHS.
> My age and diabetes puts me in a fairly high risk category. I consider that I follow a pretty healthy lifestyle but you're saying that if it wasn't for people like me the NHS wouldn't be struggling to cope.
> Not all such heath issues are 'self inflicted', there are genetic factors to be considered too.


Well, said! It makes my blood boil these judgmental people keep banging the drum about obesity causing various health conditions. I know 8 people with type 2 diabetes and not a single one of them is obese or ever has been. Their grandparents were diabetic, their parents are diabetic and so are they. Obesity is used as an excuse for everything going; it's a cop out so the nhs can deny people treatment half the time.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> What is it that people don't understand about social distancing and staying at home
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51995092


I don't know what's so hard to understand 

These people will get us all locked into our houses soon. Selfish gits


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> I took @rona 's post as being sarcasm rather than judgemental. People were saying if the government didn't do this or of the government did to that..so she simply took it a step further to show how pointless those kind of comments are. I could be wrong though, but that's how I read her comment.


I don't agree, I think she is being judgmental, because this isn't the first time she's said nasty comments with regard to obesity. Her sister's obese and I've seen her make some really ugly remarks about her sister. Quite frankly, if my sister said half about me that Rona's said about her sister's weight, I would cut her out of my life completely.


----------



## rona

.....................


----------



## havoc

Sacremist said:


> I think she is being judgmental, because this isn't the first time she's said nasty comments with regard to obesity.


Ok so she's being judgemental - and now you're being judgemental about that. Maybe it can stop now.


----------



## havoc

So, to change the subject. I've just had my guilty pleasures blaring at the neighbours while I cleaned the windows - they love it.
My first song on that playlist is, it turns out, a very popular choice for guilty pleasures. What would be your first choice - your guiltiest of guilty pleasures?


----------



## Elles

I’m overweight atm. It’s unhealthy and I don’t exercise enough. Cba tbh.


----------



## O2.0

One of the things that I love about the running community, the ultra running community in general, is that you quickly learn that body type ain't got nothing to do with ability to run. I've been passed by old doughy grannies, and I've been the one passing young, fit, whippersnappers  There are fat people who finish marathons and there are skinny people who gasp for air after 20 seconds of easy jogging. 

That said, I am judgmental of people who gripe about their health but don't do anything to try and improve it. I have a friend who has debilitating migraines, she knows hot dogs, bacon, and lunch meat are triggers, yet she won't give those up. On the one hand, cool, your life, you do you. But on the other hand, when she starts going on and on about how much her migraine blocker medication costs, it's hard not to say "you'd use less of it if you skipped that hot dog." But on a deeper level, she's my friend, and I don't like seeing her suffer, and the solution is (to me) very easy. 

So while not all health issues are as straight forward as avoiding eating hot dogs, I do find it totally understandable to be frustrated with people who knowingly sabotage their health. 
I think it's possible to feel both compassion for a loved one with a chronic health issue and also frustration if they continually engage in behaviors that are detrimental to them.


----------



## MilleD

Sacremist said:


> Well, said! It makes my blood boil these judgmental people keep banging the drum about obesity causing various health conditions. I know 8 people with type 2 diabetes and not a single one of them is obese or ever has been. Their grandparents were diabetic, their parents are diabetic and so are they. Obesity is used as an excuse for everything going; it's a cop out so the nhs can deny people treatment half the time.


What treatment is denied if folks are obese?


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> What treatment is denied if folks are obese?


Quite a bit to be honest, I think we have all heard at least someone having to loose weight because of weight.
When I had my appendix out, one woman they refused to operate because of her weight. She was in agony. So was pumping her through with antibiotics and pain relief. Yes she was large but to be honest I have seen a lot larger than her.


----------



## Sacrechat

MilleD said:


> What treatment is denied if folks are obese?


Knee replacements, gall bladder removal to name just two.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> What treatment is denied if folks are obese?


most un emergency operations
an obese person may have to live, forever, with hip, knee, spine chronic pain
because they cant lose the weight
mostly due to the fact their medications are weight gaining ( including steroids)
and
they cant exercise because of the pain, or their condition limits the exercise they can do
Im overweight, not obese, now, but, i had to go right down to 800 cals a day, 7 days a week to lose enough to tip me back into being overweight,
its my underlying condition, and the medication, thats keeping me out of hospital, stopping me going lower
its my underlying condition that has caused non alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver, kidney problems and type 2 diabetes, hughes syndrome and many other comorbids
its my underlying conditions, and, the wonderful lng term ( read lifelong) side effects of chemotherapy, that stops me exercising
the medication they want to give me, will cause more weight gain, as three of them are steroid based, so at the moment im refusing and existing in pain, rather than living as obese, again


----------



## Sacrechat

havoc said:


> Ok so she's being judgemental - and now you're being judgemental about that. Maybe it can stop now.


That's easy to say when you aren't the one her nastiness is being directed at. I was very overweight, but I've lost most of that weight now, but it still pisses me off the ignorance of some people and if that's me judging her then I will bloody well judge.


----------



## havoc

I foresee this thread being closed which would be a shame.


----------



## mrs phas

strange thing to say
but
can we get back to the coronavirus?
before the thread is closed
the prime minister has just made several life changing anouncements
its those we should be discussing
not the petty squabbles of other members


----------



## Sacrechat

havoc said:


> I foresee this thread being closed which would be a shame.


I've said my piece, so I will try and shut up about it now.


----------



## SusieRainbow

havoc said:


> I foresee this thread being closed which would be a shame.


I take some of the responsibilty for taking the thread off topic but personal comments aren't acceptable .
Lets all calm down and stay civil to each other.


----------



## Sacrechat

:Linkme


SusieRainbow said:


> I take some of the responsibilty for taking the thread off topic, but personal comments aren't acceptable .
> Lets all calm down and stay civil to each other.


:Linkme:Locktopic


----------



## Siskin

After today's announcements I hope the threat of total lockdown gets through to the stupid who seem to think they won't get CV19. The pictures today of crowds queueing at supermarkets and fish and chip shops at the seaside not thinking twice about social distancing must be absolutely as thick as bricks.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> After today's announcements I hope the threat of total lockdown gets through to the stupid who seem to think they won't get CV19. The pictures today of crowds queueing at supermarkets and fish and chip shops at the seaside not thinking twice about social distancing must be absolutely as thick as bricks.


id like to know why piers and seafronts are keeping the arcades open
what if someone incubating cov-19, sneezes on the handles, buttons switches etc
they shouldve been told to close/keep closed the same as pubs, gyms, clubs etc


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> id like to know why piers and seafronts are keeping the arcades open
> what if someone incubating cov-19, sneezes on the handles, buttons switches etc
> they shouldve been told to close/keep closed the same as pubs, gyms, clubs etc


Seems absolutely mad doesn't it


----------



## MollySmith

sharing this as it appealed to my bleak sense of humour and if I had access to the university printer... sssssshhhhh I don’t have my own printer okay... I’d print this out and pin it to my coat when walking Molly on our ‘quiet’ walks. Image created by Trumpton on Facebook.

Not making it full-size as it might offend a few for which I sincerely apologise in advance, I’m sure we are all being vigilant, it is not aimed at anyone here.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Weight can have a bearing on risk with regard to surviving an anaesthetic or major surgery.

Patients aren’t penalised for being overweight but their weight might make them less suitable for the treatment/surgery or make their surgery more complicated or dangerous.

Unless it’s a life saving op, it might have to be postponed until the patient loses weight to improve their chances of survival and a good result.

My aged MIL cannot have her gall bladder removed because of a heart condition.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sacremist said:


> :Linkme
> :Linkme:Locktopic


Do you mean :Muted? ( muted)


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> id like to know why piers and seafronts are keeping the arcades open
> what if someone incubating cov-19, sneezes on the handles, buttons switches etc
> they shouldve been told to close/keep closed the same as pubs, gyms, clubs etc


Yup, I think the businesses need to stop too now. And don't get me started on holiday cottages who are still encouraging travel.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> After today's announcements I hope the threat of total lockdown gets through to the stupid who seem to think they won't get CV19. The pictures today of crowds queueing at supermarkets and fish and chip shops at the seaside not thinking twice about social distancing must be absolutely as thick as bricks.


I seem to be sharing memes... I hate memes, but thought this might make you smile a little. I completely agree with you.


----------



## lullabydream




----------



## Sacrechat

SusieRainbow said:


> Do you mean :Muted? ( muted)


Yes, but I couldn't find that one. Blame my bad eyesight! Lol!


----------



## Sacrechat

Lurcherlad said:


> Weight can have a bearing on risk with regard to surviving an anaesthetic or major surgery.
> 
> Patients aren't penalised for being overweight but their weight might make them less suitable for the treatment/surgery or make their surgery more complicated or dangerous.
> 
> Unless it's a life saving op, it might have to be postponed until the patient loses weight to improve their chances of survival and a good result.
> 
> My aged MIL cannot have her gall bladder removed because of a heart condition.


I couldn't have knee surgery due to my BMI being over 35, but now I'm below 35, so I can. Doctors still blame everything on weight, though.

Patient: I keep getting migraines
Doctor: if you lose weight, it will go!


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> I couldn't have knee surgery due to my BMI being over 35, but now I'm below 35, so I can. Doctors still blame everything on weight, though.
> 
> Patient: I keep getting migraines
> Doctor: if you lose weight, it will go!


I've had a similar conversation when I saw a GP about my back, lose weight and move more and it will magically disappear. Wel I've lost weight, in fact quite a lot of weight, BMI is almost in the healthy weight bit. And I still have bad back pain.

When I became very breathless and had a funny lump in my leg I didn't bother to go and see the doc because I thought I would get pretty much the same answer. I actually had cancer and severe anaemia.


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> I couldn't have knee surgery due to my BMI being over 35, but now I'm below 35, so I can. Doctors still blame everything on weight, though.
> 
> Patient: I keep getting migraines
> Doctor: if you lose weight, it will go!


Yep, that or mental health. I know doctors have missed diagnosis due to people having a mental health diagnosis and it's their only health problem.

But back on top of this dreaded Covid-19!


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> I've had a similar conversation when I saw a GP about my back, lose weight and move more and it will magically disappear. Wel I've lost weight, in fact quite a lot of weight, BMI is almost in the healthy weight bit. And I still have bad back pain.
> 
> When I became very breathless and had a funny lump in my leg I didn't bother to go and see the doc because I thought I would get pretty much the same answer. I actually had cancer and severe anaemia.


I'm so sorry to hear about your cancer; I hope you are okay now.

I've heard this so many times from a lot of people. I was told that if I lost weight, the pain in my ankles and knees would magically disappear. They totally ignored the fact my hyper mobility has caused early onset arthritis and my hands are so bad, they are twisted out of shape.

Well, I've lost the weight and my ankles and knees still hurt. I still can't stand upright going upstairs and my right leg, like my hands, is twisted out of alignment.

I went into the doctors 6 years ago with pain in my back and was told it was my weight. It got so bad, I went to casualty and they took a urine sample. There was blood in my urine, but I had no period. Like you, it turned out I had uterine cancer. Left to my GP banging the fat drum, I would be dead!


----------



## O2.0

Doctors are human and make mistakes all the time. It's not just if you're overweight that they blame symptoms on the wrong thing. 
I had thyroid disease for years and was told I was depressed, and put on zoloft which I definitely didn't need and was quite alarmed at how it made me feel. Getting off of it was even more alarming. And this while all while I had assured the doctor that I didn't feel like my symptoms matched those of depression.

And being vegan is even more fun. I've been very fortunate to have doctors who are mostly very open minded about how I eat, but I have friends who constantly get told for every little niggle to make sure they're getting enough protein. 

But the most awkward doctor's visit I had was when I was getting my broken nose repaired. Horse did it. Anyone who's spent any time around horses knows something's going to get broken. This doctor didn't really buy my 'horse broke my nose' story and arranged for OH to leave the room and then asked me what really happened. It took me a minute to figure out what was going on, but when the penny dropped, I was mortified. 
For the record, there is no way at that point to sound convincing. Either you sound like the lady doth protest too much, or you sound unconvincing. I never could decide if they believed my horse story or not.


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> Doctors are human and make mistakes all the time. It's not just if you're overweight that they blame symptoms on the wrong thing.
> I had thyroid disease for years and was told I was depressed, and put on zoloft which I definitely didn't need and was quite alarmed at how it made me feel. Getting off of it was even more alarming. And this while all while I had assured the doctor that I didn't feel like my symptoms matched those of depression.
> 
> And being vegan is even more fun. I've been very fortunate to have doctors who are mostly very open minded about how I eat, but I have friends who constantly get told for every little niggle to make sure they're getting enough protein.
> 
> But the most awkward doctor's visit I had was when I was getting my broken nose repaired. Horse did it. Anyone who's spent any time around horses knows something's going to get broken. This doctor didn't really buy my 'horse broke my nose' story and arranged for OH to leave the room and then asked me what really happened. It took me a minute to figure out what was going on, but when the penny dropped, I was mortified.
> For the record, there is no way at that point to sound convincing. Either you sound like the lady doth protest too much, or you sound unconvincing. I never could decide if they believed my horse story or not.


Oh, yes, I've been there too. I once had a really bad nightmare. I dreamt I was being attacked. We were in Antigua and the base of the bed was metal. I lashed out in my sleep and kept smashing my hand against the base of the bed. My husband had to hold me down to stop me. When I awoke, my hand was in agony. We flew home two days later so I didn't see a doctor until we arrived home. It was broken. At the hospital, when I told the doctor what happened, he didn't believe me either. My husband was also asked to leave and like you I was told I could speak to them freely. I knew what they were suggesting!

I have also been to the doctors with my sister, who was vegetarian, and I know some of the reactions she got off doctors, so I know it happens. She used to get really angry.


----------



## Jaf

Some small bit of good news. In Andalucia, Spain, the number of new infections is starting to go down! 210 today, 228 Saturday, 279 Friday. Please keep your distance and stay home!


----------



## Siskin

I watched the itv news for a while this evening and they briefly interviewed a couple and asked them if they knew what they had to do with avoiding the coronavirus. They said no they didn't and that they were confused. Nobody had said they couldn't go out, just given advice not to. They obviously lack common sense and are totally unable to think for themselves and have to be told what to do, I presume all the others out and about today in great big groups are the same. I guess if Boris had said 'I advise you not to jump off this high cliff and plummet to your death' they would all have gone and done it because they hadn't been told not to.


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> I watched the itv news for a while this evening and they briefly interviewed a couple and asked them if they knew what they had to do with avoiding the coronavirus. They said no they didn't and that they were confused. Nobody had said they couldn't go out, just given advice not to. They obviously lack common sense and are totally unable to think for themselves and have to be told what to do, I presume all the others out and about today in great big groups are the same. I guess if Boris had said 'I advise you not to jump off this high cliff and plummet to your death' they would all have gone and done it because they hadn't been told not to.


My husband thought he was being told to sit in the house for 12 weeks. I had to explain to him that it was perfectly fine for him to sit in our own garden.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I watched the itv news for a while this evening and they briefly interviewed a couple and asked them if they knew what they had to do with avoiding the coronavirus. They said no they didn't and that they were confused. Nobody had said they couldn't go out, just given advice not to. They obviously lack common sense and are totally unable to think for themselves and have to be told what to do, I presume all the others out and about today in great big groups are the same. I guess if Boris had said 'I advise you not to jump off this high cliff and plummet to your death' they would all have gone and done it because they hadn't been told not to.


I have honestly had a real battle with trying to explain to my friends sister to rein in her travel due to the virus, but that's due to her learning difficulties. However I presume she's had the virus for nearly 2 weeks. So she's not been going anywhere. Great as she's one to say am ill one minute, 5 minutes later texting say she's on a bus or at Bingo. 
Time and time again have sent her a link to information on self isolating, and that her, her boyfriend and brother should all be staying in. They all have some level of learning difficulties. Brother and boyfriend haven't stayed in. The response has always been they never get ill. Today they both have come down with a cold. I have suggested staying in as it is probably a virus. They are both adamant it's a cold. It's really hard over text and phone calls to explain to them, but usually you can with the boys. I am not surprised though to some extent with their difficulties but honestly the rest of the population, surely can't be all that lacking.


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> My husband thought he was being told to sit in the house for 12 weeks. I had to explain to him that it was perfectly fine for him to sit in our own garden.


Oh bless him. Bet he was glad.

Sorry to hear that you had cancer too, mines ongoing at the moment, just started radiotherepy for five weeks and then will have an op to remove it.


----------



## willa

So my nursery has closed till September probably. But us teachers have to go in tomorrow & Tuesday, which is crazy as government said don’t travel in London unless critical

Anyway we are all walking to work in the morning, will take me over an hour through Hyde Park, but refuse to travel on public transport


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> Oh bless him. Bet he was glad.
> 
> Sorry to hear that you had cancer too, mines ongoing at the moment, just started radiotherepy for five weeks and then will have an op to remove it.


Oh, he was, he loves his garden.

I'm sorry to hear you are still going through cancer treatment. It's a very worrying time I know, especially now with this virus around. My friend's husband has prostate cancer and she's very frightened.


----------



## Jesthar

One of my family members who is an NHS doctor posted this today:

_"Hi! We are trying to protect the most vulnerable people in society._

_If you've been out to a busy place today, you are literally increasing the chance of people dying._

_That might be "Blitz spirit", but you're the Luftwaffe._

_*STOP IT.*"_


----------



## Dogloverlou

A total lockdown is needed and needs to be enforced. It's no good Boris asking people to politely stay at home and relying on their moral compass and conscience, most of which the general population lack sadly!

The scenes from seaside towns this weekend have been dreadful. My mum has a caravan at Skeggy and it has been heaving there this weekend apparently! You'd think it was a half term spring break! A couple of caravan sites have now taken the sensible approach to shut their sites , but pubs, cafes, arcades were all still open. Ingoldmells outdoor market have all been encouraged to stay open rent free for a year!!

Another attraction up North was encouraging families to visit their farm and park and the amount of people tagging friends and family to go was shocking! Thankfully after done backlash they did release a statement confirming they was wrong and that they were closing from today.

And someone my mum works with who is s bit of a heavy drinker has said his local has said they're going to let regulars in through the 'back door' still. It just beggars belief.
Without enforced lockdown selfish idiots will continue to risk others lives.


----------



## havoc

Dogloverlou said:


> Without enforced lockdown selfish idiots will continue to risk others lives.


Sadly that appears to be the case. I can forgive those who poured out to National Trust property, I blame the NT for that. Everyone and everything else has been sheer madness.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.thermalhungary.net/coro...csm05wrG0oSqsJPwU-oVV1wYAtje_SMoDjCK19Xc97f2g

*Coronavirus on Europe map by administrative counties*


----------



## Siskin

Dogloverlou said:


> A total lockdown is needed and needs to be enforced. It's no good Boris asking people to politely stay at home and relying on their moral compass and conscience, most of which the general population lack sadly!
> 
> The scenes from seaside towns this weekend have been dreadful. My mum has a caravan at Skeggy and it has been heaving there this weekend apparently! You'd think it was a half term spring break! A couple of caravan sites have now taken the sensible approach to shut their sites , but pubs, cafes, arcades were all still open. Ingoldmells outdoor market have all been encouraged to stay open rent free for a year!!
> 
> Another attraction up North was encouraging families to visit their farm and park and the amount of people tagging friends and family to go was shocking! Thankfully after done backlash they did release a statement confirming they was wrong and that they were closing from today.
> 
> And someone my mum works with who is s bit of a heavy drinker has said his local has said they're going to let regulars in through the 'back door' still. It just beggars belief.
> Without enforced lockdown selfish idiots will continue to risk others lives.


The warden at our static site has told me that our site will close soon, it's likely that most sites will


----------



## Happy Paws2

I just can't believe just how selfish people are, watching so many people outside the supermarkets yesterday when they opened for the NHS staff and they most stampeded the so the Staff had to let them in. 

What is wrong with people, we are told there is enough food so if everyone acts sensible there will be enough each day to go round.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## purringcats

Magyarmum said:


>


It doesn't help he sends out mixed messages saying it is ok to go out to have a walk and go to the shops but keep 2 metres away from each other (which people have not been doing).


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well if we can't go out, then when it warms up we are going to do some gardening, I've some seeds to sow and put in the green house and OH is to going cut the lawn. 

Well that's the idea


----------



## MilleD

Dogloverlou said:


> A total lockdown is needed and needs to be enforced. It's no good Boris asking people to politely stay at home and relying on their moral compass and conscience, most of which the general population lack sadly!


I'll be gutted if a total lockdown happens as I love going out on my bike. Went yesterday and the only people I saw were a few cyclists going in the opposite direction. It's bloody annoying that I would have to stop that because people can't keep their distance from each other.

Went on the road instead of mountain as apparently, Cannock Chase has because a magnet for about 3 million people. - Saturday :  Waiting to pay at the parking ticket machine.










At least I have a garden, I feel for folks in flats with no outside space at all.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> It doesn't help he sends out mixed messages saying it is ok to go out to have a walk and go to the shops but keep 2 metres away from each other (which people have not been doing).


It's not really mixed message though. You can go out IF you follow the social distancing rules.


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> It's not really mixed message though. You can go out IF you follow the social distancing rules.


It is because in yesterdays news conference he said stay in and don't go out.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Some peoples inability (unwillingness) to follow social distancing is crazy - all those photos of people at the weekend out and about in public parks and beauty spots - and that photo above that MilleD posted of people cueing for the parking meter - I just don't get it. What bit don't they understand - or is it pure selfishness - part of the 'I'm not in the 'at risk' category' 

And as always because the selfish few can't follow guidelines there will have to be further legislation introduced - which is why it has gone from maintain social distancing to don't go out and I suspect will be followed by lockdown making it an offence to go out unless on necessary business. China stopped people in the street and in their cars.

J


----------



## Happy Paws2

This just proves just how selfish mankind is, self, self, self and to hell with everyone else.:Banghead

We expect our dogs to do as they are told, maybe we should take a leaf out of their book and look at our pets.


----------



## Magyarmum

The last time I went out was Wednesday, since then the only people I've seen has been the postman who delivered a parcel, the two men who came to read the (outside) water meter and my drunken neighbour!

Sunday was strange because as all places of worship are closed, the bells didn't ring for morning service at the church opposite my house and of course no worshipers (all half dozen of them) waiting outside for the vicar to arrive!

The Schnauzer boys were very disappointed not to have something to bark about


----------



## catz4m8z

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> And as always because the selfish few can't follow guidelines there will have to be further legislation introduced - which is why it has gone from maintain social distancing to don't go out and I suspect will be followed by lockdown making it an offence to go out unless on necessary business.


I wouldnt be surprised. Reminds me of a Jim Jeffries routine about gun control where he says that the majority of laws arent there for 90% of the population....they are there for the 10% of morons who cant be trusted to act responsibly. Sadly the morons dont respond to being asked politely to do something.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I think all supermarkets should have an armed soldier outside to let the NHS the vulnerable and elderly in without been hassled.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well if we can't go out, then when it warms up we are going to do some gardening, I've some seeds to sow and put in the green house and OH is to going cut the lawn.
> 
> Well that's the idea


Well that idea has got up the swanie (how ever your spell it) OH got this morning lost his balance and fell and landed on his bum, (shouldn't laugh but it did look funny) hurt his lower back and really shook his self up. So no gardening today I'm really gutted


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> So no gardening today I'm really gutted


Can still find a nice sunny spot and sit and plan the gardening... Planning counts as gardening!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> Can still find a nice sunny spot and sit and plan the gardening... Planning counts as gardening!!


That won't take long we have a postage stamp sized garden.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Waiting to pay at the parking ticket machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


*CRAZY *


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> *CRAZY *


I can't believe the pictures from this weekend. I'm just in shock...


----------



## 3dogs2cats

purringcats said:


> It doesn't help he sends out mixed messages saying it is ok to go out to have a walk and go to the shops but keep 2 metres away from each other (which people have not been doing).


To be fair to Johnson, and I am no fan of his, he can`t tell people they are not allow out to the shops. Not everyone has months worth of food stockpiled I certainly don't! I have to fed my mum how am I going to do that if I cant go to the shop. If everyone is told they are not allowed to go to the shops and by shop I mean for food of course, then the government would have to drop everyone food parcels.


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> To be fair to Johnson, and I am no fan of his, he can`t tell people they are not allow out to the shops. Not everyone has months worth of food stockpiled I certainly don't! I have to fed my mum how am I going to do that if I cant go to the shop. If everyone is told they are not allowed to go to the shops and by shop I mean for food of course, then the government would have to drop everyone food parcels.


We have enough food for 2- 3 weeks but we'll need milk and bread.


----------



## Charity

Just read this on BBC website, worth passing on to elderly relatives and friends in particular warning about scams and cold callers

Police are warning people to be vigilant after a suspected conman tried to get a homeowner to hand over their dog for coronavirus quarantine.
The man went to a house in Marton, Middlesbrough, and told the victim their dog needed to be taken away.
When questioned, the man walked away and drove off in a white van.
Cleveland Police has renewed warnings about fraud. The RSPCA has said there is "no evidence" pets can become ill from coronavirus.
The male suspect is described as being a tanned with an unknown accent and black hair. He was wearing a grey padded coat and dark trousers.
"We are warning members of the public to be vigilant," a force spokeswoman said.

Dr Samantha Gaines from *the RSPCA said**: "We're urging pet owners not to panic and not to abandon their pets.*"

Councils have also issued warnings about scammers pretending to be health officials or offering to pick up food and medicines.

The Local Government Association is advising people not to accept help from cold-callers.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> I can't believe the pictures from this weekend. I'm just in shock...


So am I. I can't believe so many people can be so thick and stupid.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> So am I. I can't believe so many people can be so thick and stupid.


People acting like they are on holiday might as well be in work if they are going to do this.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Happy Paws2 said:


> We have enough food for 2- 3 weeks but we'll need milk and bread.


 My daughter went to the shop for mum yesterday and got milk left it outside for me to bring in. She will need bread, milk fresh fruit and veg brought for her so some one has got to go the shops Not me though I am keeping well away!


----------



## catz4m8z

3dogs2cats said:


> My daughter went to the shop for mum yesterday and got milk left it outside for me to bring in. She will need bread, milk fresh fruit and veg brought for her so some one has got to go the shops Not me though I am keeping well away!


I think in the worst effected countries on complete lockdown people are allowed out for food and medicine but have to have some sort of form and might be questioned by police....it could come to that thanks to all the idiots.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> I think in the worst effected countries on complete lockdown people are allowed out for food and medicine but have to have some sort of form and might be questioned by police....it could come to that thanks to all the idiots.


I wonder how they would issue forms? It must be really hard to decide who has a real need to get essential food and medicine and not just going out because they are down to their last 100th tin of beans and are starting to panic!


----------



## Sacrechat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well if we can't go out, then when it warms up we are going to do some gardening, I've some seeds to sow and put in the green house and OH is to going cut the lawn.
> 
> Well that's the idea


We have decided not to buy our usual annuals this year, which is disappointing but due to having to self isolate, we don't really have any choice.


----------



## cheekyscrip

It is enough to have police and army patrolling streets to avoid gathering.

In Gibraltar we still can walk or run on our own or children with parents.

Today all shops but essential close.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> I think in the worst effected countries on complete lockdown people are allowed out for food and medicine but have to have some sort of form and might be questioned by police....it could come to that thanks to all the idiots.


My niece and her partner live up in the mountains in the Catalonia region of Spain. They are largely self sufficient and grow a lot of what they eat, but do need to shop. In order to do so they fill in a form and one person is allowed to drive down to the food shop. There are road blocks on all roads leading into the town manned by police who check the form


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> My niece and her partner live up in the mountains in the Catalonia region of Spain. They are largely self sufficient and grow a lot of what they eat, but do need to shop. In order to do so they fill in a form and one person is allowed to drive down to the food shop. There are road blocks on all roads leading into the town manned by police who check the form


In my local town the police will do your shopping for you if you give them a list and the money

In my nearest city there's a help line which the elderly can call if they need shopping done or any help at home.


----------



## Elles

MilleD said:


> I'll be gutted if a total lockdown happens as I love going out on my bike. Went yesterday and the only people I saw were a few cyclists going in the opposite direction. It's bloody annoying that I would have to stop that because people can't keep their distance from each other.
> 
> Went on the road instead of mountain as apparently, Cannock Chase has because a magnet for about 3 million people. - Saturday :  Waiting to pay at the parking ticket machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least I have a garden, I feel for folks in flats with no outside space at all.


If it was a zombie apocalypse, they'd be the zombies.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well that idea has got up the swanie (how ever your spell it) OH got this morning lost his balance and fell and landed on his bum, (shouldn't laugh but it did look funny) hurt his lower back and really shook his self up. So no gardening today I'm really gutted


sorry to hear that
trying to get paracetamol. Our local chemist said a delivery was coming today but it didnt come.

OH took sisters puppy to vet for 2nd injection. The rules are you wait in your car and the vet will come out. One person per pet.

The streets are quiet , Im still walking dogs daily , there are lots of places to go which have plenty of room to avoid other people.


----------



## MilleD

I know it's probably the last thing on people's minds, but if you feed the birds, can you remember to carry on doing it please?

We are coming into the breeding season and there is already going to be a lot less food available for certain birds due to the lack of people in the streets (well, theoretically) so they will appreciate a little extra help.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> sorry to hear that
> trying to get paracetamol. Our local chemist said a delivery was coming today but it didnt come.
> 
> OH took sisters puppy to vet for 2nd injection. The rules are you wait in your car and the vet will come out. One person per pet.
> 
> The streets are quiet , Im still walking dogs daily , there are lots of places to go which have plenty of room to avoid other people.


I phoned up the dispensary at my doctors to ask how they are dealing with giving out repeat prescriptions and asked if I could have paracetamol added. She said that would need to put the request through the doctor but she was sure he would say yes. However they only have two packs of paracetamol in the dispensary, but she did put one of them aside for me.


----------



## mrs phas

im on prepayment metres
if i cant go to the shop to top up im buggered
and
no, being on disability benefits,
I cannot afford to top up for 12 weeks
electric would mean £300
the gas, as its getting warmer, around £150
but if we get another cold snap, that could rise to £300 as well
£600 is more than i get a month to actually live on


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I know it's probably the last thing on people's minds, but if you feed the birds, can you remember to carry on doing it please?
> 
> We are coming into the breeding season and there is already going to be a lot less food available for certain birds due to the lack of people in the streets (well, theoretically) so they will appreciate a little extra help.


I'm still feeding the little trouble makers, stocked up with seed last time we went out.


----------



## Sacrechat

MilleD said:


> I know it's probably the last thing on people's minds, but if you feed the birds, can you remember to carry on doing it please?
> 
> We are coming into the breeding season and there is already going to be a lot less food available for certain birds due to the lack of people in the streets (well, theoretically) so they will appreciate a little extra help.


We have been doing. In fact, we appear to have adopted a pet blackbird. It now comes to greet us every day standing less than a foot away from us and happily eats the seed we put out for it. It even follows us around the garden.


----------



## Magyarmum

The latest update from the Hungarian Government

http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...2zUghwp37UY6JB5aqPb-6AZJjL2DQXdPd0dm7x_nZd18c

*Coronavirus Update: PM Orbán says the more we cooperate, the more lives we can save*


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> im on prepayment metres
> if i cant go to the shop to top up im buggered
> and
> no, being on disability benefits,
> I cannot afford to top up for 12 weeks
> electric would mean £300
> the gas, as its getting warmer, around £150
> but if we get another cold snap, that could rise to £300 as well
> £600 is more than i get a month to actually live on


Aren't there apps that do that sort of thing? Can you get one of those. Also, £150 per month for energy seems extremely high!


----------



## purringcats

A typical example of people not sticking to the social distancing advice.

My neighbour has been throwing a party since 10am this morning in her garden and all her friends are around drinking alcohol, smoking drugs and stinking the street out. The social distancing does not apply to them apparently.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> A typical example of people not sticking to the social distancing advice.
> 
> My neighbour has been throwing a party since 10am this morning in her garden and all her friends are around drinking alcohol, smoking drugs and stinking the street out. The social distancing does not apply to them apparently.


Report them then.


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> Report them then.


To who? The police turn a blind eye to cannabis taking in my area and the landlord does not care. I tried reporting them last year and the police done nothing. They told me they treat people smoking drugs as a bad smell and so does the landlord.

I do not think the police are enforcing gatherings at the moment as it is only advice the PM is giving out.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> To who? The police turn a blind eye to cannabis taking in my area and the landlord does not care. I tried reporting them last year and the police done nothing. They told me they treat people smoking drugs as a bad smell and so does the landlord.
> 
> I do not think the police are enforcing gatherings at the moment as it is only advice the PM is giving out.


They came out to a party the other night near my sisters house.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> To who? The police turn a blind eye to cannabis taking in my area and the landlord does not care. I tried reporting them last year and the police done nothing. They told me they treat people smoking drugs as a bad smell and so does the landlord.
> 
> I do not think the police are enforcing gatherings at the moment as it is only advice the PM is giving out.


I'm a landlord. I assure you I wouldn't treat it as a bad smell.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well if we can't go out, then when it warms up we are going to do some gardening, I've some seeds to sow and put in the green house and OH is to going cut the lawn.
> 
> Well that's the idea


I've actually been productive at home today.

Cut the grass and started to tidy the garden.

It's glorious sunshine out there at the moment


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> Aren't there apps that do that sort of thing? Can you get one of those. Also, £150 per month for energy seems extremely high!


Besides I imagine that having to out and do something like that would count as an essential journey along with food and medicine.



Lurcherlad said:


> It's glorious sunshine out there at the moment


Sadly that doesnt work in our favor presently...the idiots are all flocking out to enjoy it! I bet they would have no trouble with social distancing if it was a blizzard outside!


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Aren't there apps that do that sort of thing? Can you get one of those. Also, £150 per month for energy seems extremely high!


thank you for your input, but I think youll find that i mentioned a 12 week period
£150/12 = £12.50 per week for gas
£300/12 =£25 per week for electric
Apps? not for the company i am with, penalty for going with the cheapest recommended by Martin Lewis
no i cant change to monthly or quarterly billing
i have to account for every penny that comes in and goes out

my apologies for spelling meter, metre, in the previous post, brain fart


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> thank you for your input, but I think youll find that i mentioned a 12 week period
> £150/12 = £12.50 per week for gas
> £300/12 =£25 per week for electric
> Apps? not for the company i am with, penalty for going with the cheapest recommended by Martin Lewis
> no i cant change to monthly or quarterly billing
> i have to account for every penny that comes in and goes out
> 
> my apologies for spelling meter, metre, in the previous post, brain fart


No need to be funny, I assumed you were dividing your figures by months as that is how I have always measured it.

And from Martin Lewis himself, perhaps your energy supplier is on this list.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/n...-help-customers-unable-to-top-up-due-to-coro/


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> To who? The police turn a blind eye to cannabis taking in my area and the landlord does not care. I tried reporting them last year and the police done nothing. They told me they treat people smoking drugs as a bad smell and so does the landlord.
> 
> I do not think the police are enforcing gatherings at the moment as it is only advice the PM is giving out.


That's too bad. I've just watched a video from our mayor. He assures us that any social gathering of any kind is to be reported and that the zero gathering restriction now in effect in my state will be aggressively enforced by our police force. I am in the NE US.


----------



## lullabydream

No choice to go out today, post a repeat prescription at the doctors and offered to pick a prescription up for a neighbour.

Two local cafes, which always have people sat outside them in practically all weather's on the tables and chairs provided by the cafe outside. Still have the table and chairs outside and still people are sat in extremely close proximity all very well now they have take away cups but I don't think they are family groups. As usual people are coming up in to talk to them. I heard them discussing social distancing and doubt they are at risk..how do they know they aren't vectors of the virus. Don't they get the news. People have to change their routines, and at least McDonald's have done the right thing closing completely as people were getting their takeaways but sitting on tables out side which were fixed. These cafes are moving these tables outside. I know space is going to be a problem but surely they can figure a way some how to keep them indoors for now. Having seating is just encouraging them to stay. Yes they may go on benches, but at least these have space between them to some degree.

Second moan of the day.. Lots of children out and about too. More than I usually see on holidays if am honest. These are children with no adults so am guessing year 5/6 and upwards. Not just one but groups of 5 or 6. Is this due to schools closing and lack of child care or children being bored? I don't know!


----------



## ZoeM

catz4m8z said:


> I think in the worst effected countries on complete lockdown people are allowed out for food and medicine but have to have some sort of form and might be questioned by police....it could come to that thanks to all the idiots.


My sister in Barcelona, everyone is being very civilised, they are allowed to go out for essential journeys, to pick up some food, prescription medication etc. They are bored but safe, and able to get fresh air every few days which they have been very grateful for. If we had locked down two weeks ago, we would have saved a lot of lives, instead we will be on Italy level


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Second moan of the day.. Lots of children out and about too. More than I usually see on holidays if am honest. These are children with no adults so am guessing year 5/6 and upwards. Not just one but groups of 5 or 6. Is this due to schools closing and lack of child care or children being bored? I don't know!


this^
so annoying i have one skateboarding up and down outside my house
told him, politely to be on his way twice
but i hear his back now
not only does it set the dogs off
but
because i have a , wooden, flying bedroom across the ally to the neighbouring house,
it reverbarates all through it


----------



## ZoeM

Siskin said:


> I phoned up the dispensary at my doctors to ask how they are dealing with giving out repeat prescriptions and asked if I could have paracetamol added. She said that would need to put the request through the doctor but she was sure he would say yes. However they only have two packs of paracetamol in the dispensary, but she did put one of them aside for me.


A GP friend of mine said that their local hospital had loads of paracetamol stolen and people were stealing from ambulances.


----------



## Jesthar

So, me and my NHS family member got together to make a thing. Words theirs, layout mine. Feel free to share it around wherever you wish on the offchance it might help some of the hard of thinking get it into their skulls why they need to stay at home










For the VI people, text as follows:

"Hi from the NHS! We are trying to protect the most vulnerable people in society. If you've been out to a busy place today, you're literally increasing the chance of people dying. That might be "Blitz spirit", but you're the Luftwaffe. STOP IT! Please. Save lives. Stay home. SHARE THIS."
(image of WW2 Luftwaffe planes dropping their bombs)


----------



## Dave S

Now that McDonalds and Nando are closing can we assume that eggs will be more readily available?

Also;

I haver been working in the garden today, same as most days and apart from seeing the lady opposite coming into her garden for a cigarette there is nobody about, no noisy children on the trampolines, no work from home fathers gardening, nothing.
Does that mean that kids are all home indoors stuck behind consoles? What sort of generation are we growing?


----------



## Psygon

Dave S said:


> Now that McDonalds and Nando are closing can we assume that eggs will be more readily available?
> 
> Also;
> 
> I haver been working in the garden today, same as most days and apart from seeing the lady opposite coming into her garden for a cigarette there is nobody about, no noisy children on the trampolines, no work from home fathers gardening, nothing.
> Does that mean that kids are all home indoors stuck behind consoles? What sort of generation are we growing?


I only have two neighbours, but one of them has three children. They are currently inside with all their school work


----------



## catz4m8z

Dave S said:


> Does that mean that kids are all home indoors stuck behind consoles? What sort of generation are we growing?


Better that then running around spreading germs! Wait til this crisis is over....then we can kick them all outdoors to play!LOL


----------



## ZoeM

catz4m8z said:


> Better that then running around spreading germs! Wait til this crisis is over....then we can kick them all outdoors to play!LOL


 I only have one neighbour with a teenager, and he and his little hoodied mates are out and about in the local neighbourhood getting up to God knows what. He hasn't been in school for the last 3 years and he wanders round with his little knife. He has been getting regular drop offs from his drug dealing friend. Meanwhile, I have been watching the elderly and disabled neighbours in the bungalows opposite chilling with their coughing kids and grandkids. Thankfully they haven't been since Friday.


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> So, me and my NHS family member got together to make a thing. Words theirs, layout mine. Feel free to share it around wherever you wish on the offchance it might help some of the hard of thinking get it into their skulls why they need to stay at home
> 
> View attachment 434118
> 
> 
> For the VI people, text as follows:
> 
> "Hi from the NHS! We are trying to protect the most vulnerable people in society. If you've been out to a busy place today, you're literally increasing the chance of people dying. That might be "Blitz spirit", but you're the Luftwaffe. STOP IT! Please. Save lives. Stay home. SHARE THIS."
> (image of WW2 Luftwaffe planes dropping their bombs)


Shared all over the place. Thank you


----------



## Jesthar

Dave S said:


> I haver been working in the garden today, same as most days and apart from seeing the lady opposite coming into her garden for a cigarette there is nobody about, no noisy children on the trampolines, no work from home fathers gardening, nothing.
> Does that mean that kids are all home indoors stuck behind consoles? What sort of generation are we growing?


A sensible one?

Besides, this isn't a holiday. People with kids are (hopefully) doing some teaching of their kids at home, and people working from home are doing just that - working.



Siskin said:


> Shared all over the place. Thank you


Thank YOU


----------



## O2.0

LOL one poster annoyed at a child out skateboarding, another poster annoyed at the children inside being quiet.... 
Poor kids, no matter what they do they're wrong!


----------



## Dave S

O2.0 said:


> LOL one poster annoyed at a child out skateboarding, another poster annoyed at the children inside being quiet....


No, I am not annoyed, just surprised.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Besides, this isn't a holiday. People with kids are (hopefully) doing some teaching of their kids at home, and people working from home are doing just that - working


Have joined in home schooling today.. Helped a friend who was worried about her abilities. Nothing to worry about but I think if people had bad experiences at school, or didn't like school any one can feel this way.

If anyone is concerned about how much to do a day, obviously it depends on the child but you as teacher are giving more undivided time that they usually get at school. So it is definitely more intense. So it doesn't need to be as many hours as school. I say this as a mother of a child who was excluded from school and had home tuition provided by the LA. My son had to be educated but it was only a couple of hours a day for him being of primary school age as it was 1 to 1 and intensive.

I was so pleased my friend had already planned a break time so her children went in the garden and had a kick about with a football which they really enjoyed. 
They also enjoyed their lunch in their lunch boxes too, just a reminder it was still a day of learning as such. Although that was the end of the day.


----------



## Sacrechat

Lurcherlad said:


> I've actually been productive at home today.
> 
> Cut the grass and started to tidy the garden.
> 
> It's glorious sunshine out there at the moment


Same here! We've been power washing the paving slabs for the last 3 days and doing some pruning. All the garden furniture needs to be washed yet and we have paint already so we can paint some fences and some wooden furniture, so we have a busy week ahead.


----------



## Sacrechat

Dave S said:


> Now that McDonalds and Nando are closing can we assume that eggs will be more readily available?
> 
> Also;
> 
> I haver been working in the garden today, same as most days and apart from seeing the lady opposite coming into her garden for a cigarette there is nobody about, no noisy children on the trampolines, no work from home fathers gardening, nothing.
> Does that mean that kids are all home indoors stuck behind consoles? What sort of generation are we growing?


Maybe they are indoors doing school work!


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> Same here! We've been power washing the paving slabs for the last 3 days and doing some pruning. All the garden furniture needs to be washed yet and we have paint already so we can paint some fences and some wooden furniture, so we have a busy week ahead.


Snowing here. I'll be shoveling later.


----------



## Nonnie

Im betting on a lockdown announcement this evening.

Its clear from the deplorable behaviour of people this weekend that the vast majority cant follow a simple rule.

I hope the UK implement Germanys groups of no more than 2 as well. Hefty fines for people that think they dont have to abide.

Military will probably be rolled out this week as well to help police the whole shit show.


----------



## Teddy-dog

I haven’t read the whole thread.


I’m getting really anxious about this. Mostly about my work and what’s going to happen with my business. I’m still going out and walking peoples dogs (taking precautions obviously!!) but feel like maybe I shouldn’t be. Problem is there is no help for self employed (apart from we can apply for UC and get £94 a week - if we’re lucky!!). OH is working from home but his wage doesn’t cover everything. We have savings for the wedding but don’t really want to go into those. It seems unfair that other people are getting 80% of their wage so don’t have to dip into any savings if they can’t work but self employed people get barely anything and we may have to use our hard earned savings to pay bills???

I have a feeling we’ll be in lockdown soon so won’t be able to work at all and I can only hope the government come up with a better solution then UC


----------



## lorilu

My anxiety is escalating as my employer tries to convince me to work remotely. I live in a tiny space with an unstable computer with little memory, and no wireless router. I also have a thing with letting anyone in my house. It's difficult enough to allow a friend in, in normal times, the idea of having someone in here to set up equipment I have no room for has made me quite ill with anxiety. I get paid whether I work or not, I am a government employee. But my job is rather small potatoes compared to what the big heads do there. There are potentially some things I can do remotely but it would require a lot of equipment that I do not have room for. I don't mean to be obstructionist with my employer, but the whole thing is making me quite sick in the head and I am getting those chest pain symptoms that I know are anxiety.

I suggested I be let to go into the office once a week when no one else is in there to do this non-essential work, but that has been vetoed. I suppose it would be breaking current laws.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lorilu said:


> My anxiety is escalating as my employer tries to convince me to work remotely. I live in a tiny space with an unstable computer with little memory, and no wireless router. I also have a thing with letting anyone in my house. It's difficult enough to allow a friend in, in normal times, the idea of having someone in here to set up equipment I have no room for has made me quite ill with anxiety. I get paid whether I work or not, I am a government employee. But my job is rather small potatoes compared to what the big heads do there. There are potentially some things I can do remotely but it would require a lot of equipment that I do not have room for. I don't mean to be obstructionist with my employer, but the whole thing is making me quite sick in the head and I am getting those chest pain symptoms that I know are anxiety.
> 
> I suggested I be let to go into the office once a week when no one else is in there to do this non-essential work, but that has been vetoed. I suppose it would be breaking current laws.


Maybe your anxiety is bad enough for you to be signed off sick (if that's how your system works over there)?


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe your anxiety is bad enough for you to be signed off sick (if that's how your system works over there)?


I do not want to use my sick time, and am not required to use it. I am not required to work from home either. My job is not essential. The little bit of work work they want me to do will be there when I go back. The issue, from their point of view is, any hours I work will save them money because they will be paying me from payroll rather than emergency administrative leave. I understand that, but a few hours of my tiny wages will not make much difference in the grand scheme of things. I understand this is an unprecedented situation here. I am not trying to be obstructionist. But the bottom line is, my work is not essential and I am just not set up in my home for working from home..

Edit: perhaps I can work out an exchange and offer to use one more of my personal days or vacation days. I figure there is only about 8 hours of work (one working day) I can do from home. Total. It is work that has already been created, and there won't be any more in that area until things resume "normal".

I have already used one vacation day (planned) and one sick day (when I first got sick) since the "no essential employees at work" edict came down. I'll give them one more vacation day, if that will save them a little money. I will not sacrifice my sick time. I have chronic health conditions and I need that available to me.


----------



## Siskin

Found on Facebook


----------



## daveos

Hi I'm really worried at the moment I live with my parents my dad is 82 has prostrate cancer and COPD my mum is 71 has high blood pressure and as I work full time in a supermarket I'm scared I will bring it home with me they are self isolating but what am I to do work don't seem interested just want to get profits up I'm really thinking of quitting which I have never done in all my life just so scared.


----------



## purringcats

PM to make a statement to the country at 8:30pm tonight.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...nation-after-emergency-cobra-meeting-11962509


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.allodocteurs.fr/maladie...essai-clinique_28962.html#xtor=EPR-1000002224

*Coronavirus: Inserm includes chloroquine in its clinical trial*


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.allodocteurs.fr/maladie...essai-clinique_28962.html#xtor=EPR-1000002224
> 
> *Coronavirus: Inserm includes chloroquine in its clinical trial*


Wow, if my translation is correct and I'm a bit rusty with French then that's human trials soon?


----------



## Jobeth

All UK travellers have been urged to return home now so I suspect we are heading for a complete lock down.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> PM to make a statement to the country at 8:30pm tonight.
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...nation-after-emergency-cobra-meeting-11962509


I hope it's lock down. Well, I don't because it's scary but it's necessary.

Hugs to everyone as I know we must all be nervous, I know I've just had a shudder of fear through me after reading that link and for once not directly related to Boris.


----------



## purringcats

MollySmith said:


> I hope it's lock down. Well, I don't because it's scary but it's necessary.
> 
> Hugs to everyone as I know we must all be nervous, I know I've just had a shudder of fear through me after reading that link and for once not directly related to Boris.


I am sure he will make the right decision whatever it is.

The current advice that has been given last week has not worked as many people are still out and about chosing to ignore the advice. A sterner message has to be given.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Wow, if my translation is correct and I'm a bit rusty with French then that's human trials soon?


Wasn't it in English because I posted the English version not the French one? My computer automatically translates any language into English.

The trials started yesterday and the first results should be known in 15 days.

Discovery. This is the name given to the European clinical trial against the coronavirus, which the National Institute of Health and Medical Research ( Inserm ) is launching on March 22, 2020. This trial will include at least 800 French patients suffering from severe forms the Covid-19 among 3,200 European patients in Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, the UK, Germany and Spain.

Its objective: to assess the efficacy and safety of four experimental treatments which could have an effect against Covid-19 " _in the light of current scientific data_ " specifies Inserm in a press release.

In total, five types of care are tested:

Standard care (oxygen, ventilation, etc.);
Standard care and the antiviral remdesivir ;
Standard care plus lopinavir and ritonavir (antiviral Kaletra);
Standard care plus lopinavir, ritonavir and beta interferon;
Standard care plus hydroxy-chloroquine , a medicine against malaria.
The choice of treatment will be randomly assigned, but patients and doctors will know which treatment is used.

.


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> Wasn't it in English because I posted the English version not the French one? My computer automatically translates any language into English.
> 
> The trials started yesterday and the first results should be known in 15 days.
> 
> Discovery. This is the name given to the European clinical trial against the coronavirus, which the National Institute of Health and Medical Research ( Inserm ) is launching on March 22, 2020. This trial will include at least 800 French patients suffering from severe forms the Covid-19 among 3,200 European patients in Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, the UK, Germany and Spain.
> 
> Its objective: to assess the efficacy and safety of four experimental treatments which could have an effect against Covid-19 " _in the light of current scientific data_ " specifies Inserm in a press release.
> 
> In total, five types of care are tested:
> 
> Standard care (oxygen, ventilation, etc.);
> Standard care and the antiviral remdesivir ;
> Standard care plus lopinavir and ritonavir (antiviral Kaletra);
> Standard care plus lopinavir, ritonavir and beta interferon;
> Standard care plus hydroxy-chloroquine , a medicine against malaria.
> The choice of treatment will be randomly assigned, but patients and doctors will know which treatment is used.
> 
> .


Thank you, no I think PF must wrangle it back to French. It provided my grey cells with something to puzzle out.

This is good news, I think it's the same trial that a friend of mine's wife is working on at Porton Down but there's a number going on around the world so I'm not sure.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> I am sure he will make the right decision whatever it is.
> 
> The current advice that has been given last week has not worked as many people are still out and about chosing to ignore the advice. A sterner message has to be given.


I hope he finally makes a right decision! It's all been a bit woolly so far. People see loop holes and he needs to be 100% clear, no fluff as is his usual way.


----------



## ChaosCat

daveos said:


> Hi I'm really worried at the moment I live with my parents my dad is 82 has prostrate cancer and COPD my mum is 71 has high blood pressure and as I work full time in a supermarket I'm scared I will bring it home with me they are self isolating but what am I to do work don't seem interested just want to get profits up I'm really thinking of quitting which I have never done in all my life just so scared.


Not liked for your worries but to show sympathy.

You are in a difficult position there. But I think if you take care to change your clothes directly on coming home, keep good hygiene standards and take care not to come too close your parents will be fine.


----------



## Elles

I think people think that it’s a mild virus that doesn’t particularly hurt anyone under 70, so it doesn’t matter to them and their kids. Why should they stay home, they just have to stay away from old mum. 

So when they break their leg and end up in hospital, there’s no space, because health care workers were infected by the careless who also broke their leg. Anyone who is left are looking after the sick and vulnerable, that the idiots infected at the shop, or in the pharmacy.

Even the healthy need hospital care sometimes. I hope it’s there for you after you’ve all finished infecting each other at national parks and on the beaches and spreading it. 

As usual, we who have been careful are isolating and following the advice will also suffer from your selfish stupidity. We will likely now all be locked down under martial law, because some of you weren’t in the queue when they handed out brains. :Rage

(General rant, not at us ofc)


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> I think people think that it's a mild virus that doesn't particularly hurt anyone under 70, so it doesn't matter to them and their kids. Why should they stay home, they just have to stay away from old mum.
> 
> So when they break their leg and end up in hospital, there's no space, because health care workers were infected by the careless who also broke their leg. Anyone who is left are looking after the sick and vulnerable, that the idiots infected at the shop, or in the pharmacy.
> 
> Even the healthy need hospital care sometimes. I hope it's there for you after you've all finished infecting each other at national parks and on the beaches and spreading it.
> 
> As usual, we who have been careful are isolating and following the advice will also suffer from your selfish stupidity. We will likely now all be locked down under martial law, because some of you weren't in the queue when they handed out brains. :Rage
> 
> (General rant, not at us ofc)


I hear you. Hugs.


----------



## cheekyscrip

It looks more serious than in China...
It might be they knew about it for a while now and were on standby?

Rates of recovery are lower in Europe


----------



## lorilu

I realized just now that my anxiety over all this work remotely stuff has caused me to forget to eat, since supper last night. No wonder I am on the edge of hysteria. This issue has been resolved and there will be no more talk about bringing equipment over her to make me do a non essential job. They can't, by law, accept my offer of sacrificing a vacation day.

The thing is, with me, everything is about the cats. I need to keep them safe and calm, and that means no extra computers, printers, routers, and scanners taking up this tiny apartment.


----------



## Lurcherlad

daveos said:


> Hi I'm really worried at the moment I live with my parents my dad is 82 has prostrate cancer and COPD my mum is 71 has high blood pressure and as I work full time in a supermarket I'm scared I will bring it home with me they are self isolating but what am I to do work don't seem interested just want to get profits up I'm really thinking of quitting which I have never done in all my life just so scared.


I feel for you - it must be very worrying.

Could you ask to move into a position that isn't customer facing perhaps? Even working as a nighttime shelf stacker might be better?

The public won't be in store, you can work at distance using PPE and change (even shower) as soon as you get home. Antibac your way to bed.

You'll be sleeping most of the time your parents are awake so not mixing as much.


----------



## purringcats

Tesco, Asda, Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, Sainsbury's and CO-OP are all recruiting temps at the moment because of the surge in demand.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-create-jobs-to-meet-surge-in-demand-11961035


----------



## MollySmith

cheekyscrip said:


> It looks more serious than in China...
> It might be they knew about it for a while now and were on standby?
> 
> Rates of recovery are lower in Europe


You mean in the UK and our government? Probably yes. There's all this stuff about Dr Mengele (aka Dominic Cummings) allegedly saying this. Whether that's true or not, herd immunity isn't working.


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> Tesco, Asda, Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, Sainsbury's and CO-OP are all recruiting temps at the moment because of the surge in demand.
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-create-jobs-to-meet-surge-in-demand-11961035


I'm seeing that here. A local chain has advertised for 2000 overnight workers.


----------



## Siskin

Jobeth said:


> All UK travellers have been urged to return home now so I suspect we are heading for a complete lock down.


I've been expecting this happen sooner rather then later mainly due to the weekend idiots.

I've a friend holidaying in Sri Lanka at the moment, she did say Internet was poor there so may not be able to find out about this. I've also heard about two different couples stuck in NZ, I doubt if they can come home.


----------



## mrs phas

O2.0 said:


> LOL one poster annoyed at a child out skateboarding, another poster annoyed at the children inside being quiet....
> Poor kids, no matter what they do they're wrong!


i had a reason to be annoyed, the rumble reverberated right through my house, as it bounced off the wooden slats above
and
theres a flipping great 
no skateboarding, no rollerblading, no scooters and no ball games,
on the face of the flying bedroom, that the council put there, before we even moved in, so 21yrs ago at least
so
if he couldnt read it, 
then 
he *NEEDS* to be in the home, practising his reading

anyway
i didnt ask him to stop full stop,
i asked him to do it elsewhere, like his own road,
then its their problem not mine, 
I dont shoot bullets for other peoples guns
i also spoke to his dad and explained, so not just picking on children


----------



## O2.0

Hi @mrs phas no need to justify yourself to me. I was merely amused at the juxtaposition of the two posts, that's all.


----------



## mrs phas

Well the police are taking things seriously

BBC News - Coronavirus: Teens held for 'coughing in face' of elderly couple
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52003543


----------



## mrs phas

Jobeth said:


> All UK travellers have been urged to return home now so I suspect we are heading for a complete lock down.


Do you have link to this please?
I can find nothing, yet on gov.co.uk, on Tokyo UK embassy or even BBC internet news


----------



## Jobeth

It's on the Sky App so took a screenshot for you.


----------



## mrs phas

Jobeth said:


> View attachment 434178
> It's on the Sky App so took a screenshot for you.


so nothing actual official yet then
and nothing from Boris
so yet another rumour presented as fact


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> so nothing actual official yet then
> and nothing from Boris


Here ya go:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tons-abroad-urged-to-return-to-uk-immediately


----------



## Jesthar

Some friends of mine were very nearly stranded in the Maldives at the end of their dream holiday after their flights were cancelled and the locals were calling for lockdown. Sounds like fun being trapped in Coronavirus-free paradise - until you realise how quickly it would have bankrupted them! Thankfully they managed to get home at the weekend, thought it's cost them a lot of extra cash.


----------



## Siskin

It’s lockdown

Only allowed out if

Going for food, get things delivered and only go infrequently
Allowed out once for a form of exercise
For medical reasons or helping a vulnerable person

There’s more that’s the ones I remember.

Police will stop people to see why they are out and will dispel any gatherings.

All this is down to the weekend idiots


----------



## MilleD

So that's that.

We're in lockdown. Some limited rights, but not much.


----------



## Dogloverlou

Enforced lockdown! 

Feeling a bit shell shocked really. It's all so surreal.


----------



## mrs phas

O2.0 said:


> Here ya go:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tons-abroad-urged-to-return-to-uk-immediately


still not fact
dominic raab can say what he wants
when theyre told to come home,
I'll tell my son
In the meantime hes enjoying kyoto
and
also enjoying the fact that no ones panicking in japan
just going about their business
because they shut the north Island as soon as that ship docked
which, as an island is what we shouldve done
instead of pussyfooting around


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> It's lockdown
> 
> Only allowed out if
> 
> Going for food, get things delivered and only go infrequently
> Allowed out once for a form of exercise
> For medical reasons or helping a vulnerable person
> 
> There's more that's the ones I remember.
> 
> Police will stop people to see why they are out and will dispel any gatherings.
> 
> All this is down to the weekend idiots


To go to work - but only if you absolutely need to. And funerals are allowed.

Oh, the exercise is once a week, not just once 

Edit - Day!!!! Not week!


----------



## purringcats

That will teach the idiots that went out over the weekend and today to soak up the sun.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> So that's that.
> 
> We're in lockdown. Some limited rights, but not much.





Dogloverlou said:


> Enforced lockdown!
> 
> Feeling a bit shell shocked really. It's all so surreal.


really?
i cant believe you didnt see this coming tbf
the idiots were never going to comply, with allowed out but self distance
as usual the minority spoil it for the majority


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> To go to work - but only if you absolutely need to. And funerals are allowed.
> 
> Oh, the exercise is once a week, not just once


Fines will be imposed if you break the new rules. There is the issue of how this will be policed.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> really?
> i cant believe you didnt see this coming tbf
> the idiots were never going to comply, with allowed out but self distance
> as usual the minority spoil it for the majority


Was that answer at me too?


----------



## Dogloverlou

mrs phas said:


> really?
> i cant believe you didnt see this coming tbf
> the idiots were never going to comply, with allowed out but self distance
> as usual the minority spoil it for the majority


It's not that I didn't expect it. It's the severity of the measures, the fact this is something unprecedented and nothing we as a nation have ever experienced. That's what is really hitting home. It's scary.


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> Fines will be imposed if you break the new rules. There is the issue of how this will be policed.


it cant be, is the answer
theyve only got to say that
its their one exercise a day
theyre going shopping
theyve got to pick up medication ( a box of ibuprofen will suffice)
or
helping and elderly/disabled/ vunerable neighbour

its a mockery of a lock down, to appease the masses that think it will work


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> To go to work - but only if you absolutely need to. And funerals are allowed.
> 
> Oh, the exercise is once a week, not just once
> 
> Edit - Day!!!! Not week!


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

t least dogs can go out for a daily walk


----------



## MollySmith

As a someone I know said, a government who spent years cutting hospital beds and staff is now restricting our movement because there isn't the capacity in the NHS to cope with this situation.

The moves are absolutely necessary and I've honoured them for two weeks now, but I will never respect the people delivering it.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> t least dogs can go out for a daily walk


Yep.

I'll be using the opportunity to go for a bike ride. The really long ones take about 5 hours - does that count?


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Was that answer at me too?


only in an indirect way of using yours and dogloverlou's posts as quotations to give a point of reference
not trying to be funny
not even trying to be slightly amusing:Kiss


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> As a someone I know said, a government who spent years cutting hospital beds and staff is now restricting our movement because there isn't the capacity in the NHS to cope with this situation.
> 
> The moves are absolutely necessary and I've honoured them for two weeks now, but I will never respect the people delivering it.


Respectfully, it really isn't the time for politics.


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> it cant be, is the answer
> theyve only got to say that
> its their one exercise a day
> theyre going shopping
> theyve got to pick up medication ( a box of ibuprofen will suffice)
> or
> helping and elderly/disabled/ vunerable neighbour
> 
> its a mockery of a lock down, to appease the masses that think it will work


Curious as to what approach you think they should have taken?


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> only in an indirect way of using yours and dogloverlou's posts as quotations to give a point of reference
> not trying to be funny
> not even trying to be slightly amusing:Kiss


Good, because I wasn't remotely surprised.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> To go to work - but only if you absolutely need to. *And funerals are allowed.*


My auntie's funeral is tomorrow and we can't go so it's not strictly true. Not according to the funeral directors on advice from their head organisation or whatever they are. We can 'watch online' but I can't quite bring myself to do that.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> My auntie's funeral is tomorrow and we can't go so it's not strictly true. Not according to the funeral directors on advice from their head organisation or whatever they are. We can 'watch online' but I can't quite bring myself to do that.


That's not what was said so that must be a local rule.

Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Hopefully these measures will slow the March of the virus now all the duckwits have been dealt with! 

Well done Boris.

(Though I see Labour are taking credit for it )


----------



## Nonnie

I assume dog walking comes under a form of exercise, and that there are no limitations as to how long that can be for?


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Curious as to what approach you think they should have taken?


im not a politician
nor am i in charge of myself, most of the time, let alone the country
I was merely replying to @purringcats question
but in my opinion
theyve given too many 'outs' for it to be policed effectively


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Respectfully, it really isn't the time for politics.


Respectfully it's free speech but since it's already getting heated and nobody needs to feel any worse least of all our long suffering admins, I'll bite my tongue.

***

Let's all take a deep breath, we've got to 90 pages, that's pretty damm amazing given how emotional we all are.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Hopefully these measures will slow the March of the virus now all the duckwits have been dealt with!
> 
> Well done Boris.
> 
> (Though I see Labour are taking credit for it )


At least it makes a change from the French taking credit for it


----------



## havoc

I have a funeral later this week and the crem rules are close family only. Only three of us are going, three separate cars. Nothing he has said tonight changes anything.


----------



## mrs phas

Nonnie said:


> I assume dog walking comes under a form of exercise, and that there are no limitations as to how long that can be for?


feel for those living in flats with dogs
once a day out/walk
isnt going to cover it


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> I assume dog walking comes under a form of exercise, and that there are no limitations as to how long that can be for?


They haven't said a limit just that it's once a day.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> That's not what was said so that must be a local rule.
> 
> Sorry for your loss.


As I said, it's the advice from whatever the funeral directors overall body thing is called - sorry no idea what they are officially called as I understand from my other aunt. The funeral will go ahead but not as usual - we are limited in numbers, no wake. I can appreciate that the details would be a distraction to Boris' announcement and imagine that funeral parlours will be advising as they have done, very clearly, to our family.

Thank you for your condolences.


----------



## havoc

His speech just about described my normal life.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> That's not what was said so that must be a local rule.
> 
> Sorry for your loss.


Close family are allowed.

Depends who counts as close family.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> As I said, it's the advice from whatever the funeral directors overall body thing is called


Is it a burial or cremation?


----------



## MilleD

Ye gods, it gets worse, now MasterChef is on


----------



## Boxerluver30

I'm honestly not surprised its come to this, imo boris should have done it much sooner. Its the only way the idiots are going to listen. I'm not sure it will be policed properly though, guess time will tell. Hopefully things will start looking up now though. Could do with a bit of positivity as I've had a crap few weeks


----------



## Psygon

Are vets classed as essential services? I assume they are but really there was no mention of them...


----------



## purringcats

mrs phas said:


> it cant be, is the answer
> theyve only got to say that
> its their one exercise a day
> theyre going shopping
> theyve got to pick up medication ( a box of ibuprofen will suffice)
> or
> helping and elderly/disabled/ vunerable neighbour
> 
> its a mockery of a lock down, to appease the masses that think it will work


So how do they know if you haven't already done your one exercise for the day? It is impossible to know.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> Depends who counts as close family.


Mines an aunt but my brother and I are her closest living relatives.


----------



## Jesthar

MollySmith said:


> As a someone I know said, a government who spent years cutting hospital beds and staff is now restricting our movement because there isn't the capacity in the NHS to cope with this situation.


Less beds doesn't help, but to be brutally honest we'd still be in this boat if previous resource levels had been maintained or even exceeded. The vast number of beds that would be required if further measures aren't imposed is way more than could ever be justified for 'normal' operations.

Basically, over the weekend many people have *emphatically *proved that they can't be trusted to follow simple instructions designed to keep people safe. They were offered the chance to do the right thing and play nice with the remaining toys, and declined. Now the toys have been taken away, and have to deal with the consequences. I don't doubt many will whinge.

However, if these temporary measures mean the NHS only has to make dozens of decisons over who is worth treating and who should be declined treatment in each county, rather than thousands, don't you think it's worth it?


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Close family are allowed.
> 
> Depends who counts as close family.





havoc said:


> Is it a burial or cremation?


Sorry for your loss too.

It's a burial.

If it's okay, I'd rather move on, it's bad enough - I simply wanted to mention that it's not the same as we'd expected and if anyone else had a loss, doubtless it would be different. My aunt had a lot of close family as she had many children but as many have asthma and other health conditions they can't go. Can we move on please? Thank you.


----------



## Boxerluver30

As for dog walking I was wondering about that too. Its ok if you walk in remote locations i suppose but theres so many dog owners that we are bound to come across each other eventually. I've pretty much told my mum she should avoid walking samson in the park and use the meadows instead which is bigger so allows for more distance. 

Also yes dogs in flats need to go out more than once a day , don't know how thats going to work. Samson has a garden and is used to being walked once a day so he should be fine. Guess nows a better time than ever to do some training/enrichment to keep them entertained.


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> Less beds doesn't help, but to be brutally honest we'd still be in this boat if previous resource levels had been maintained or even exceeded. The vast number of beds that would be required if further measures aren't imposed is way more than could ever be justified for 'normal' operations.
> 
> Basically, over the weekend many people have *emphatically *proved that they can't be trusted to follow simple instructions designed to keep people safe. They were offered the chance to do the right thing and play nice with the remaining toys, and declined. Now the toys have been taken away, and have to deal with the consequences. I don't doubt many will whinge.
> 
> However, if these temporary measures mean the NHS only has to make dozens of decisons over who is worth treating and who should be declined treatment in each county, rather than thousands, don't you think it's worth it?


I wasn't disputing it's not worth it.


----------



## Psygon

Psygon said:


> Are vets classed as essential services? I assume they are but really there was no mention of them...


Does anyone have a list of the things that will remain open?


----------



## Dogloverlou

Psygon said:


> Are vets classed as essential services? I assume they are but really there was no mention of them...


There was a statement today that said vet surgeries would only be seeing emergency cases and only performing emergency surgeries. I will try to find it if it hasn't been posted already.


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> So how do they know if you haven't already done your one exercise for the day? It is impossible to know.


thats my point in my reply


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> Are vets classed as essential services? I assume they are but really there was no mention of them...


My vet issued something today that has been mentioned before they are following guidelines so only dealing with emergencies. I think it is being set by the RCVS.. So I presume it was issued today. As every vet has been doing something different. Of course animals still need health care but neutering, vaccinations cancelled. 
Has your vets got social media? It's worth looking there


----------



## Psygon

Dogloverlou said:


> There was a statement today that said vet surgeries would only be seeing emergency cases and only performing emergency surgeries. I will try to find it if it hasn't been posted already.


I know my vets is doing that, but they said that yesterday I just wasn't sure with this new lockdown if they are definitely essential. And are pet shops essential too.


----------



## Jobeth

mrs phas said:


> so nothing actual official yet then
> and nothing from Boris
> so yet another rumour presented as fact


Sky News were reporting it and it's here as well https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> I know my vets is doing that, but they said that yesterday I just wasn't sure with this new lockdown if they are definitely essential. And are pet shops essential too.


Someone told me that pet food shops have been classed as essential in other countries, but whether they might limit that to online, no idea. It should all become clear in the next couple of days.


----------



## Psygon

lullabydream said:


> My vet issued something today that has been mentioned before they are following guidelines so only dealing with emergencies. I think it is being set by the RCVS.. So I presume it was issued today. As every vet has been doing something different. Of course animals still need health care but neutering, vaccinations cancelled.
> Has your vets got social media? It's worth looking there


Yeah have messaged them. We are in an odd position, our cat Ted was at the vets last week and we are meant to be having further tests but the vet messed up the urine sample I dropped off and they need a new one. And I'm just not sure now if that's ok to do or if it would get classed as non emergency...

I've asked my vet anyway. I'd hate to think they won't do the test and we have to wait for Ted to get worse and it be a real emergency :'(


----------



## mrs phas

Jobeth said:


> Sky News were reporting it and it's here as well https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice


doesnt make it fact though does it
I have to admit
I honestly was expecting him to call everyone home tonight
but he didnt
so its still a suggestion, not a fact

anyway not getting into it, far more serious stuff going on in the world to be bothered with a you said, he said, arguement


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Someone told me that pet food shops have been classed as essential in other countries


Is that why the boss of PAH reckons his retail staff should be able to send their kids to school as they are essential workers?


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> My vet issued something today that has been mentioned before they are following guidelines so only dealing with emergencies. I think it is being set by the RCVS.. So I presume it was issued today. As every vet has been doing something different. Of course animals still need health care but neutering, vaccinations cancelled.
> Has your vets got social media? It's worth looking there


my vets have posted the same
emergecies only
prescription meds will still be filled
no ops unless life threatening


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Is that why the boss of PAH reckons his retail staff should be able to send their kids to school as they are essential workers?


they are for a lot of people with animals


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> Yeah have messaged them. We are in an odd position, our cat Ted was at the vets last week and we are meant to be having further tests but the vet messed up the urine sample I dropped off and they need a new one. And I'm just not sure now if that's ok to do or if it would get classed as non emergency...
> 
> I've asked my vet anyway. I'd hate to think they won't do the test and we have to wait for Ted to get worse and it be a real emergency :'(


See that's the worry with pets. I had a dog with a liver problem. First sign sge refused to eat. Took her straight to the vets. Practically laughed out the door, I would be more persistent now 3 days later back at the vets stomach huge and major liver problem. If I had only insisted on bloods.

I think most vets will follow up cases, and carry on as normal. They might have to advise over the phone but as owners we have a duty of care, and so do vets..

Oh and have been waiting for an update on progress... So will keep waiting


----------



## Jobeth

Government advice from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO).


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Someone told me that pet food shops have been classed as essential in other countries, but whether they might limit that to online, no idea. It should all become clear in the next couple of days.


Well they should be open to sell animal food only and follow the social distancing rules imo.


----------



## Dogloverlou

Psygon said:


> I know my vets is doing that, but they said that yesterday I just wasn't sure with this new lockdown if they are definitely essential. And are pet shops essential too.


Pet shops I would assume, no.


----------



## lullabydream

@mrs phas the information about bringing people from the UK home was discussed in house of commons today. They were discussing the bill to be passed on Friday relating the Covid-19
This is where the journalists are getting the information from. 
I didn't listen properly but it was waiting for Boris to pipe up as usual so kept flicking to the BBC online.

I don't know if it's part of the bill or just discussed as lots of arguments kept going back to those people not social distancing whatever they were discussing


----------



## purringcats

The vets I use for my cat have just updated their website to say they are remaining open.

They offer a video consultation service for clients who are unable to travel to their practice after contacting the reception team to discuss suitable communication platforms (eg Skype, Facetime, WhatsApp etc), appointment slots and payment options.

They currently encourage card payment rather than cash to help maintain high hygiene standards in their practice.

Follow-up examinations, including repeated prescriptions, may be conducted via video consultation where appropriate. They expect that in most instances you may visit them to collect medications however a postal service may also be available if necessary

They assure you that the care of your pet is their priority so they will accept your pet for a physical appointment if necessary. In such a case they request that only one symptom-free owner accompanies your pet to their practice.

If you have symptoms of covid 19 they advise not to walk into the practice if you believe you’ve been exposed - they need to keep everyone safe.

They will arrange a suitable way of conducting your appointment that is in everyone’s best interests.

There are a variety of options available to everyone - the important thing is to let them know and they will work with you to get your pet seen if it needs to be seen.


----------



## Elles

My farrier is still working, it comes under the animal welfare act. His instruction is to leave the horse available and stay away from him, no cups of tea, he’ll head collar and deal with the horse himself.


----------



## picaresque

Re: Pets at Home, many stores also house vet practices so that complicates things. I'm just hoping for no veterinary emergencies while all this is going on. Belka's spay had already been pushed back because of family stuff and obviously it'll now have to wait. Not that that's a big deal health wise. 

This is all so surreal. Who'd have imagined this six months ago.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> Well they should be open to sell animal food only and follow the social distancing rules imo.


They have an online presence and branches could do as many independents are and offer a local delivery service.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> They have an online presence and branches could do as many independents are and offer a local delivery service.


True, though not everyone has a computer.

They'll need to be able to place an order and pay on the phone.

A lot of elderly folk might struggle with that.


----------



## havoc

Yup. For those for whom it’s essential they’d know what they need anyway and ‘card not present’ payments aren’t that unusual.


----------



## willa

Isolating by myself in London, worried & lonely . 
All my family are together and I’m stuck in my flat


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I am completely confused about the traveling to work, this doesn't seem very clear to me. Who is allowed to go to work? I have been told only essential workers are to go to work but that isn't what it says on the Gov.co.uk it just says travel to and from work but only where this absolutely can not be done at home. That means there will still be an awful lot of people traveling to work surely!


----------



## Psygon

BBC have a full list of what is allowed to remain open.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915



> Only a small group of retailers will be allowed to stay open including:
> 
> Supermarkets
> Pharmacies
> Newsagents
> Hardware store
> Banks
> Pet shops
> Post Offices
> Petrol stations
> Vets
> Retail shops in hospitals
> Laundrettes
> Funeral homes
> However, retailers will still be able to take online orders and deliver items to your home.


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> Isolating by myself in London, worried & lonely .
> All my family are together and I'm stuck in my flat


That does sound very lonely, if you aren't used to being alone. Can you be in contact with them on phone, e mail or social media? Do you have pets with you? My family is spread out, but most of them have at least one other person with them, wife or husband usually. One of my sisters is alone like i am, but also like me, she likes solitude.

You might find hanging out here can help. We have lots of other threads to post on. Book discussions, videos, pets....


----------



## Siskin

We got our little car serviced and MOT today, booked it months ago. Phew that was just in time. Now taxed and insured again


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> @mrs phas the information about bringing people from the UK home was discussed in house of commons today. They were discussing the bill to be passed on Friday relating the Covid-19
> This is where the journalists are getting the information from.


*IF *they decide friday, hes due to get his flight sunday, arrive in UK monday, so im sure he wouldnt be able to get one earlier than that anyway
wish these, so called, journalists would wait and report factually, rather than jumping the gun and presenting it as facts
they are definitley not helping, in these times, when fake news is all over the place, especially with the reporting of this cov-19 and what works and doesnt
thankfully I git my repeat script today, as hydroxychloraquine is going into human testing, on cov-19, and with trumps announcement earlier in the week I was, and am, worried they will be the next world shortage
they have kept me out of hospital, all but twice, for the last 27 years, I dont need to start being a burden now


----------



## mrs phas

3dogs2cats said:


> I am completely confused about the traveling to work, this doesn't seem very clear to me. Who is allowed to go to work? I have been told only essential workers are to go to work but that isn't what it says on the Gov.co.uk it just says travel to and from work but only where this absolutely can not be done at home. That means there will still be an awful lot of people traveling to work surely!


my sons friend is a removal man, hes had an email to turn up tomorrow, everything as was
should people really be moving at the moment? 
they could, theoretically take cov-19 to an area not yet affected ( towns and villages, not counties)
and
him and the rest, being in and out of different peoples houses. surely thats not good either


----------



## cheekyscrip

My son decided not to come back home and stay in UK.

Really worried, he is just 19. I rather have him back but don’t know what is safer.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> We got our little car serviced and MOT today, booked it months ago. Phew that was just in time. Now taxed and insured again


 MOT and repair garages will be staying open surely? if not how will all the people who need to travel to work keep their cars legal. 
Oh sorry do you mean you have had to go out and get the car MOT before you batten down the hatches?


----------



## Psygon

mrs phas said:


> my sons friend is a removal man, hes had an email to turn up tomorrow, everything as was
> should people really be moving at the moment?
> they could, theoretically take cov-19 to an area not yet affected ( towns and villages, not counties)
> and
> him and the rest, being in and out of different peoples houses. surely thats not good either


Wouldn't legally they have to move tho, if they have sold their house? I agree not good to move right now, just not sure what someone could do.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

mrs phas said:


> my sons friend is a removal man, hes had an email to turn up tomorrow, everything as was
> should people really be moving at the moment?
> they could, theoretically take cov-19 to an area not yet affected ( towns and villages, not counties)
> and
> him and the rest, being in and out of different peoples houses. surely thats not good either


As far as we are aware my husband will be at work tomorrow, he cant work from home. I saw a doctor ( I think ) talking about people going out to work and said more clarity is needed - I agree with him!


----------



## lorilu

cheekyscrip said:


> My son decided not to come back home and stay in UK.
> 
> Really worried, he is just 19. I rather have him back but don't know what is safer.


{[hug}}


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> MOT and repair garages will be staying open surely? if not how will all the people who need to travel to work keep their cars legal.
> Oh sorry do you mean you have had to go out and get the car MOT before you batten down the hatches?


We had booked it to go today for the service a long time ago. They came and picked it up this morning and brought it back this afternoon. They wore gloves I noticed.

I just noticed that the list of permitted business that has been posted that are allowed to be open didn't include garages apart from petrol stations


----------



## 3dogs2cats

mrs phas said:


> feel for those living in flats with dogs
> once a day out/walk
> isnt going to cover it


 I know it will be so hard for them unless they have several people in the same household who can take the dog out. For anyone living on their own with dogs that are used to going out two or three times a day it will be difficult.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> my sons friend is a removal man, hes had an email to turn up tomorrow, everything as was
> should people really be moving at the moment?
> they could, theoretically take cov-19 to an area not yet affected ( towns and villages, not counties)
> and
> him and the rest, being in and out of different peoples houses. surely thats not good either


My son and his girlfriend have just moved north last month. Very glad it all happened then as it would have been impossible now. I do wonder though about those people who have sold the house they are living in and have to move out what will happen to them. Can they move or not?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> We had booked it to go today for the service a long time ago. They came and picked it up this morning and brought it back this afternoon. They wore gloves I noticed.
> 
> I just noticed that the list of permitted business that has been posted that are allowed to be open didn't include garages apart from petrol stations


Crikey if they don't allow garages there will be a lot of people driving around with cars out of MOT. I wonder if they didn't bother to include garages because they are not a shop? Mine was done in the beginning of the year fortunately - that is one less thing to worry about!


----------



## Psygon

Psygon said:


> Yeah have messaged them. We are in an odd position, our cat Ted was at the vets last week and we are meant to be having further tests but the vet messed up the urine sample I dropped off and they need a new one. And I'm just not sure now if that's ok to do or if it would get classed as non emergency...
> 
> I've asked my vet anyway. I'd hate to think they won't do the test and we have to wait for Ted to get worse and it be a real emergency :'(


Seems like this test wouldn't be considered urgent so unlikely to go ahead. But I can call tomorrow to confirm :-( now just really worried as we don't know what's wrong with Ted just a worrying blood test result for elevated kidney enzymes :-(


----------



## ZoeM

lorilu said:


> My anxiety is escalating as my employer tries to convince me to work remotely. I live in a tiny space with an unstable computer with little memory, and no wireless router. I also have a thing with letting anyone in my house. It's difficult enough to allow a friend in, in normal times, the idea of having someone in here to set up equipment I have no room for has made me quite ill with anxiety. I get paid whether I work or not, I am a government employee. But my job is rather small potatoes compared to what the big heads do there. There are potentially some things I can do remotely but it would require a lot of equipment that I do not have room for. I don't mean to be obstructionist with my employer, but the whole thing is making me quite sick in the head and I am getting those chest pain symptoms that I know are anxiety.
> 
> I suggested I be let to go into the office once a week when no one else is in there to do this non-essential work, but that has been vetoed. I suppose it would be breaking current laws.


@lorilu If you can get through to your GP, you call him, Anxiety and stress can escalate so you need to act on it to help yourself. It's not as if they won't understand. Also, perhaps work could sort out a laptop for you and drop it off. You would have to wipe it down with some alcohol/dettol wipes, but as long as they wipe it down their end it will minimise risk. Not everyone has a computer and i'm sure they will understand that. x


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> My son and his girlfriend have just moved north last month. Very glad it all happened then as it would have been impossible now. I do wonder though about those people who have sold the house they are living in and have to move out what will happen to them. Can they move or not?


We accepted an offer on my late step dad's house last week and conveyancing has started.

Unfortunately we hadn't finished clearing the place so not entirely sure what is going to happen.


----------



## ZoeM

Siskin said:


> It's lockdown
> 
> Only allowed out if
> 
> Going for food, get things delivered and only go infrequently
> Allowed out once for a form of exercise
> For medical reasons or helping a vulnerable person
> 
> There's more that's the ones I remember.
> 
> Police will stop people to see why they are out and will dispel any gatherings.
> 
> All this is down to the weekend idiots


This virus is here and in the population hugely, though the idiots aren't helping, we would be in for a shitstorm regardless. Every week the government have done too little too late. It's not like they can't see the signs, I have seen the signs and I'm no genius. It's widely publicised and the World Health Organisation have been shouting for our government to act. But No, Boris said we would aim for Herd Immunity. Which is a case where we all sacrifice our sick and elderly, for something we aren't sure we will get immune to. He's responsible for this mass murder of our elderly.


----------



## westie~ma

Well, there we are then. 
Thought it would happen but did think we'd have a bit more notice rather than immediately. 

Dh went back to London this morning, I think they will make a decision soon whether they can now close, as part of the business can be considered essential and they have been approached about parts for ventilators. 

Anyway, I wait again. Should be getting used to being in limbo, had about a year of it now with various life events. 

On a lighter note my new shed was due for delivery tomorrow morning, not sure if it will be here or not and by the time Boris finished it was too late to phone to see what was happening. 

Stay safe everyone xx


----------



## MilleD

ZoeM said:


> This virus is here and in the population hugely, though the idiots aren't helping, we would be in for a shitstorm regardless. Every week the government have done too little too late. It's not like they can't see the signs, I have seen the signs and I'm no genius. It's widely publicised and the World Health Organisation have been shouting for our government to act. But No, Boris said we would aim for Herd Immunity. Which is a case where we all sacrifice our sick and elderly, for something we aren't sure we will get immune to. He's responsible for this mass murder of our elderly.


You need to be a little careful on what you post if I'm honest. You talk about if people have mental health issues a lot, but some of the stuff you post isn't helping, surely?

I know you feel this way, but maybe tone it down a little? We all need to get through this and some of the posts aren't helping.


----------



## lullabydream

Going back to the shops things that open.. I think there is only for them as shopping is worrisome in the fact although shops aren't busy still people are treating them as oh I will just pop in here and everywhere, just a bit of window shopping coming in as I have time to kill that sort of thing. 
Other jobs he expects you to work from home if possible but not all jobs such as the food factories can't we desperately need them plus those who go and repair them so that they keep running which is your engineering side comes into it. It's quite complex what and how can be involved to get food to fork safely.


----------



## westie~ma

lullabydream said:


> Going back to the shops things that open.. I think there is only for them as shopping is worrisome in the fact although shops aren't busy still people are treating them as oh I will just pop in here and everywhere, just a bit of window shopping coming in as I have time to kill that sort of thing.
> Other jobs he expects you to work from home if possible but not all jobs such as the food factories can't we desperately need them plus those who go and repair them so that they keep running which is your engineering side comes into it. It's quite complex what and how can be involved to get food to fork safely.


The supermarkets I drove past today had lots of cars in the car parks 

My preps won't last forever, trying to channel some of Dh's grandmother who went through the war. I have her old cook book here somewhere, goats head stew is in it :Bookworm :Wideyed :Bookworm


----------



## lullabydream

westie~ma said:


> The supermarkets I drove past today had lots of cars in the car parks
> 
> My preps won't last forever, trying to channel some of Dh's grandmother who went through the war. I have her old cook book here somewhere, goats head stew is in it :Bookworm :Wideyed :Bookworm


My mum had some really old cook book probably my Grans, that had some really odd concotations too but I think I would have remembered goats head Stew!


----------



## willa

lorilu said:


> That does sound very lonely, if you aren't used to being alone. Can you be in contact with them on phone, e mail or social media? Do you have pets with you? My family is spread out, but most of them have at least one other person with them, wife or husband usually. One of my sisters is alone like i am, but also like me, she likes solitude.
> 
> You might find hanging out here can help. We have lots of other threads to post on. Book discussions, videos, pets....


Yes I have Skype and Face Time so can see & talk with my family.
It's the horrid uncertainty


----------



## ZoeM

MilleD said:


> You need to be a little careful on what you post if I'm honest. You talk about if people have mental health issues a lot, but some of the stuff you post isn't helping, surely?
> 
> I know you feel this way, but maybe tone it down a little? We all need to get through this and some of the posts aren't helping.


I hear you. If you had read the scientific journals regarding this, you would feel angry too. I've been trying to warn people for the past three weeks now. It's an open forum and I keep telling myself to stop getting angry. I've been extremely careful about only putting factual information on here. I keep telling myself to stop trying to warn people they are putting friends and family at risk, but its very hard to stop caring. Please find attached a document showing what would have happened if the government had acted two weeks ago and not be angry.

I think the best way to stop caring, would be to leave. So I bid you all adieu and good luck.


----------



## Rafa

ZoeM said:


> He's responsible for this mass murder of our elderly.


Really? Boris Johnson is a mass murderer?

What would your directive be in these circumstances?

How would you lead the Country?

If you really need to focus on someone, how about the thousands who queued all over the Country today, outside MacDonalds?

Because they're closing tonight, all of these people had to have a MacDonalds, even though that meant squeezing themselves in amongst hundreds of others who may be infected.

Maybe they are the potential 'mass murderers'?


----------



## havoc

The projections for how the latest restrictions change and check the spread of the virus are quite dramatic. It’s only how many of us were already living anyway, and how everybody should have been. 

Does anyone know if the big supermarkets are allowed to carry on selling non food stuff? That does give them a huge commercial advantage which I do think is unfair. If clothes and electrical goods shops must close Tesco and Sainsbury’s shouldn’t get to profit from that.


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> I know it will be so hard for them unless they have several people in the same household who can take the dog out. For anyone living on their own with dogs that are used to going out two or three times a day it will be difficult.


I don't think there will be dire consequences for taking a dog outside for ten minutes a time as long as it isn't to meet up with others.


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Isolating by myself in London, worried & lonely .
> All my family are together and I'm stuck in my flat


It must be very hard when you live alone, but try to take comfort in this being a way to protect yourself.

It will be reviewed in 3 weeks, apparently and we could be in a different situation by then if the measures work to stem the spread of the virus.

It's so frustrating that the morons among us have made this situation so much worse by not following the previous guidelines.

There are lots of things going on online - free live streaming by musicians, virtual pub quizzes, exercise classes etc.

And there's usually always someone on here to connect with.

Use Skype, FaceTime etc to stay connected to family.


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> Wouldn't legally they have to move tho, if they have sold their house?


Contractually yes but one of the things which frustrates a contract is 'intervening illegality'.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> We got our little car serviced and MOT today, booked it months ago. Phew that was just in time. Now taxed and insured again


That's a relief!

You need transport for your treatment obviously, but being able to get out for a drive makes one feel less trapped but still safe from the virus.

DS took off for a 20 minute drive yesterday just to get out and away from his workstation at home, whilst keeping safe from the virus for his dad's sake.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I just noticed that the list of permitted business that has been posted that are allowed to be open didn't include garages apart from petrol stations


Garages are on there but further down the list. My car is sick and at the garage now! Also due MOT


----------



## purringcats

Removed because the company has reversed there decision to stay open and have decided to close up.


----------



## purringcats

The PM didn't think about those who need to take their dogs for a walk 3 or 4 times a day.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> My son and his girlfriend have just moved north last month. Very glad it all happened then as it would have been impossible now. I do wonder though about those people who have sold the house they are living in and have to move out what will happen to them. Can they move or not?


I think they must be allowed to.

It would be very complicated (and costly) if they're stopped from doing so.

If people (including removers) take sensible precautions (and I'd clean a new house thoroughly anyway) and follow lock down when they've moved in (avoid contact with new neighbours, etc.) it should be ok.

ETA: Gove said postpone house moves "if at all possible".

Which surely means if it isn't for all the obvious reasons moves can still take place - following all safety measures of course.


----------



## purringcats

Schools are remaining open for key workers children, Post Offices, Banks, Corner Shops, Supermarkets, Pharmacies and Chemists, Vets and the Job Centre (even though they are telling people they do not have to go to appointments as all requirements to attend the Job Centre have been suspended, so would this be considered as wasting taxpayers money?). Obviously the GP surgeries are staying open as well.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> The PM didn't think about those who need to take their dogs for a walk 3 or 4 times a day


Oh for goodness sake, nobody is going to be shot on sight for taking a dog out to pee.


----------



## purringcats

havoc said:


> Oh for goodness sake, nobody is going to be shot on sight for taking a dog out to pee.


Now that is a silly remark of course you won't be shot.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> think they must be allowed to.
> 
> It would be very complicated (and costly) if they're stopped from doing so.
> 
> If people (including removers) take sensible precautions (and I'd clean a new house thoroughly anyway) and follow lock down when they've moved in (avoid contact with new neighbours, etc.) it should be ok


I'd imagine slipping completion dates could be mutually agreed.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Now that is a silly remark and of course ypu won't be shot you might be fined


What's silly is the constant nit picking over a perfectly clear objective.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> My son and his girlfriend have just moved north last month. Very glad it all happened then as it would have been impossible now. I do wonder though about those people who have sold the house they are living in and have to move out what will happen to them. Can they move or not?


My friends sold their house last month and are due to move out at the end of April. They're retired and were supposed to be moving to Hungary where the wife has family (she's Hungarian). It's now impossible because Hungary, along with other EU countries, has closed the borders to all but Hungarian citizens or permanent residents. They don't know what they are going to do.


----------



## purringcats

havoc said:


> What's silly is the constant nit picking over a perfectly clear objective.


People are worried about it I have read posts on various websites commenting about dog walking not being mentioned and worrying they will get fined.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> My friends sold their house last month and are due to move out at the end of April. They're retired and were supposed to be moving to Hungary where the wife has family (she's Hungarian). It's now impossible because Hungary, along with other EU countries, has closed the borders to all but Hungarian citizens or permanent residents. They don't know what they are going to do


That's hard but there's nothing they can do but wait it out. If they aren't due to move out until the end of next month then surely they have yet to exchange - if you mean move out of the house rather than move out to Hungary.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> People are worried about it I have read posts on various websites


Are they? Poor things. PM should have had their specific requirements right in the forefront of his mind should he instead of trying to keep tens of thousands of vulnerable people alive.


----------



## Siskin

purringcats said:


> People are worried about it I have read posts on various websites commenting about dog walking not being mentioned and worrying they will get fined.


I'm not sure why people don't understand about walking a dog. We have been told that we can go out once a day for a period of exercise, of course that means walking the dog as well, I'm surprised that hasn't been understood.
If there is more then one person in the house then they go separately and take the dog with them,,
Problems will arise if the dog owner is on their own and lives in a flat with no outside space as the dog will need to be taken out several times a day, but I'm sure that would be acceptable as it's a welfare issue, so long as people don't abuse the situation which I'm sure some will. It's unlikely there is going to a police presence on every street monitoring our every move


----------



## Jason25

purringcats said:


> The PM didn't think about those who need to take their dogs for a walk 3 or 4 times a day.


Really???
Have you seen the position this man is in?

If you need to walk your dogs for toileting, do it but be cautious, be safe, keep it short and keep distance between you and other people.


----------



## purringcats

havoc said:


> Are they? Poor things. PM should have had their specific requirements right in the forefront of his mind should he instead of trying to keep tens of thousands of vulnerable people alive.


I was just pointing out what I have read on various other sites no need for attitude.

Yes I agree it is important to keep people alive vulnerable or not by reducing or stopping the risk of catching this.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Hopefully, common sense will prevail.

Jack needs his walk in the morning as his system is set up for that  .... full evacuation of the bowel and a number of long wees and he’s set for a few hours snoozing on the sofa. He will use the garden once or twice during the day and usually before bed.

If I didn’t have a garden I’d take him out for a walk briefly 2 or 3 a day times if necessary.

OH needs to walk but prefers at night when nobody is around so Jack will get 2 walks going forward - his usual morning one and a brief spin round the block with us when it’s dark and usually nobody is about.

I doubt anyone will notice or care tbh.

If we spot someone we cross over the road to avoid them anyway.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> If I didn't have a garden I'd take him out for a walk briefly 2 or 3 a day times if necessary


Exactly and nobody would notice or care.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> It must be very hard when you live alone, but try to take comfort in this being a way to protect yourself.
> 
> It will be reviewed in 3 weeks, apparently and we could be in a different situation by then if the measures work to stem the spread of the virus.
> 
> It's so frustrating that the morons among us have made this situation so much worse by not following the previous guidelines.
> 
> There are lots of things going on online - free live streaming by musicians, virtual pub quizzes, exercise classes etc.
> 
> And there's usually always someone on here to connect with.
> 
> Use Skype, FaceTime etc to stay connected to family.


I got the fright of my life late yesterday afternoon, when my phone and internet went on the blink! Panic stations because for the past two days we've had gale force winds and I thought maybe it had brought down the telephone line to my house, which has happened before.

The phone and internet are my lifeline to the outside world and family. I have a mobile but as we don't get a signal in the village, it's useless.

Such a relief when after nearly three hours of being off line it came back to life again!

Whoopee! Panic stations over at least for the time being!


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> That's hard but there's nothing they can do but wait it out. If they aren't due to move out until the end of next month then surely they have yet to exchange - if you mean move out of the house rather than move out to Hungary.


As far as I understand contracts have been exchanged and they have to move out of the house by the end of April. Their intention was to put their furniture in store and drive to Hungary a few days later, which is now not possible..


----------



## purringcats

Lurcherlad said:


> It must be very hard when you live alone, but try to take comfort in this being a way to protect yourself.


I live alone with my cat and the worry has built up over the last few weeks. At first I was not worried at all but I think I have taken sensible precautions by building up a small supply of supplies. I haven't gone silly crazily stockpiling but have just got enough to see me through with at least the next 3 weeks booked up with online shopping slots to keep things topped up for my cat and if I need extra supplies as well. Some supermarkets are offering online delivery slots only to the vulnerable, elderly and disabled the day before the deliveries are due which is great for me as I fall in the vulnerable group. The local pharmacy is going to home deliver the medications I need that fall within my normal prescription cycle.


> It will be reviewed in 3 weeks, apparently and we could be in a different situation by then if the measures work to stem the spread of the virus.


Well let's hope so and hope he doesn't extend the lock down period to long.


> It's so frustrating that the morons among us have made this situation so much worse by not following the previous guidelines.


I think people that refused to follow the previous guidelines only have themselves to blame for this.

A lock down isn't as bad as it sounds as people can still phone each other, text, whatsapp, skype and facetime or even chat on forums to help each other get through this.


----------



## Siskin

Found on Facebook, author unknown

We have been given time to stand and stare, make use of it


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I don't think there will be dire consequences for taking a dog outside for ten minutes a time as long as it isn't to meet up with others.


I've tried to explain this to my sister. The focus for enforcement is going to be stopping gatherings of people not a person on their own walking a dog.


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> They haven't said a limit just that it's once a day.


I guess where you live could have an impact.

I regularly walk 15 miles plus without seeing a soul, so i dont see why i would need to stop that - in fact, if i were to cut down and walk more in my immediate area, id be way more likely to come into contact with others. But i also dont want to be a dick and flout the rules - might ping a message to our local beat officer and see what he would advise.

Be interesting to see how this will be enforced in more rural locations as we never have a police presence unless they are called out.

Glad this happened though, and glad BoJo followed my advice f banning groups of more than 2. The whingers only have themselves to blame.


----------



## purringcats

Nonnie said:


> Be interesting to see how this will be enforced in more rural locations as we never have a police presence unless they are called out.


I would be interested to know how they are going to police this in the town I live in, as you said the police do not come out unless someone phones them up, you never seem them otherwise.


----------



## Nonnie

purringcats said:


> I would be interested to know how they are going to police this in the town I live in, as you said the police do not come out unless someone phones them up, you never seem them otherwise.


Military no doubt.

The police simply cant cope. Nor can the ambulance service.

Few soldiers and some stern words.

It will be interesting today to see how my village behaves, as so far pretty much everyone has ignored all advice.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## purringcats

Nonnie said:


> Military no doubt.
> 
> The police simply cant cope. Nor can the ambulance service.
> 
> Few soldiers and some stern words.
> 
> It will be interesting today to see how my village behaves, as so far pretty much everyone has ignored all advice.


The road outside my house has been busy today considering we are now in lockdown. No police anywhere considering this lockdown is meant to be monitored by the police.

I wouldn't be surprised if the military swing into action to police this lockdown. I know they are on standbye at the moment.


----------



## havoc

Nonnie said:


> I regularly walk 15 miles plus without seeing a soul, so i dont see why i would need to stop that - in fact, if i were to cut down and walk more in my immediate area, id be way more likely to come into contact with others


No reason why you should change. I put my dog in the car and go where I can walk for miles without seeing anyone too. Even if you're in a more built up area the two metre rule still applies whether you're walking your dog or going for a run.


----------



## havoc

Nonnie said:


> It will be interesting today to see how my village behaves, as so far pretty much everyone has ignored all advice.


Surprisingly mine seems ok. I did have to go to the Post Office yesterday and it was almost amusing watching three of us juggle to keep our distance in a small shop.


----------



## Psygon

havoc said:


> Surprisingly mine seems ok. I did have to go to the Post Office yesterday and it was almost amusing watching three of us juggle to keep our distance in a small shop.


Ours is the same, driving through it on sunday it was like a ghost town. Mind you that was the first time I'd driven through it for a few days. There were lots of non-villagers out enjoying the countryside tho...

I suspect no one will notice if I go out multiple times per day though. I'm 3/4 of a mile out of the village, have two neighbours and live on a no thru road with a farm at the bottom. I can go out and walk quite a bit I imagine without anyone spotting I have..


----------



## Nonnie

havoc said:


> No reason why you should change. I put my dog in the car and go where I can walk for miles without seeing anyone too. Even if you're in a more built up area the two metre rule still applies whether you're walking your dog or going for a run.


No, i dont see why i should change, but part of me feels like i might be exploiting the once a day exercise loophole - but then again, if im not meeting anyone, i cant spread anything, nor catch anything.

If i can walk Ned as normal, then tbh, none of this really has an impacty on me apart from my MRI being cancelled. Again. I feel a bit mean, but then the general public have brought this on themselves by being unwilling to follow the rules that would have allowed everyone the ability to go out whenever they wanted.

Act like kids, get treated like kids.


havoc said:


> Surprisingly mine seems ok. I did have to go to the Post Office yesterday and it was almost amusing watching three of us juggle to keep our distance in a small shop.


Wish it were like that around here! Yesterday all the mums were meeting up with the kids on their bikes, having a stroll around the block and a natter - using the church yard as a play area.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> I would be interested to know how they are going to police this in the town I live in, as you said the police do not come out unless someone phones them up, you never seem them otherwise.


They will have a plan.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> Surprisingly mine seems ok. I did have to go to the Post Office yesterday and it was almost amusing watching three of us juggle to keep our distance in a small shop.


We had a very orderly queue and system outside and around the green grocers the other day.

What was odd was the silence. Nobody spoke except to the lady on the till.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> We had a very orderly queue and system outside and around the green grocers the other day.
> 
> What was odd was the silence. Nobody spoke except to the lady on the till.


I was on a bike ride on Sunday and it felt like nature was reclaiming the area, the birds were singing their heads off, and the roads were covered in mud.

Might have been my imagination but it definitely felt that way.

I rather liked it


----------



## purringcats

*China ending coronavirus lockdown in most of Hubei province*

*Restrictions on the hardest-hit city of Wuhan will remain until April 8*

*China will lift restrictions on movement in most areas of Hubei province, ending a lockdown of the area brought on by the coronavirus outbreak.
*
People who are cleared will be able to leave the province after midnight on Tuesday.

Restrictions on the hardest-hit area of Wuhan, a city of 11 million where the virus originated, will remain until April 8.

China barred people from leaving or entering Wuhan and the wider province on January 23 as Covid-19 began spreading to the rest of China and overseas during the Lunar New Year holiday, when many Chinese travel.

Hubei has had almost no new infections for more than a week.

It comes on the first day of a near-lockdown in the UK.

On Monday, Boris Johnson outlined strict new measures to curb the spread of Covid-19few specific reasons .

The measures will be in place for at least three weeks and will see the closure of non-essential shops, libraries, playgrounds and outdoor gyms, and places of worship.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/china-ending-coronavirus-lockdown-hubei-province-a4395536.html


----------



## Magyarmum

Don't know whether this has already been posted?

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/he...hqOZU6D8lu_7PIR-a_0wJN6xyuxCkkihRWI-9_ZLZJBk4

*Caring for your dog during the coronavirus pandemic*


----------



## Happy Paws2

At last BJ has finally made it really clear we can't go out, unless it's really necessary, shopping, walking the dog going to the pharmacy and excise once a day. 

I know it was a hard decision but he really should have done it sooner.


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Snowing here. I'll be shoveling later.


Oh no! At least we have some sunshine to cheer us up.


----------



## catz4m8z

purringcats said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the military swing into action to police this lockdown. I know they are on standbye at the moment.


They can come and standby me!!
Apparently people were trying to break into locked wards and offices last night and we've been warned staff could be targeted for their IDs. To think I was worried about exposing myself to covid19 constantly at work when really I should of been worrying about the muggings!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> still not fact
> dominic raab can say what he wants
> when theyre told to come home,
> I'll tell my son
> In the meantime hes enjoying kyoto
> and
> also enjoying the fact that no ones panicking in japan
> just going about their business
> because they shut the north Island as soon as that ship docked
> which, as an island is what we shouldve done
> instead of pussyfooting around


Well I heard it on the daily coronavurus news reports so I'm taking it as fact.


----------



## Nonnie

Jesus, just been reading my local community FB page and people are asking if the bloody garden centre will be open as they want to buy some bedding plants.

I really dont think people truly understand that they need to stay inside unless they HAVE to go out.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> Well I heard it on the daily coronavurus news reports so I'm taking it as fact.


It's now on go page, spoke to son, staying til sun/ Mon still as 1st April is being offerred for emergency flights home,
He will land in UK on 30th


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> I suspect no one will notice if I go out multiple times per day though. I'm 3/4 of a mile out of the village, have two neighbours and live on a no thru road with a farm at the bottom. I can go out and walk quite a bit I imagine without anyone spotting I have..


No one will notice, nor will it matter. The only thing that matters is that everyone stays away from other people but as that's obviously too difficult for the majority to understand the govt has had to clamp down. It will impact some more than others depending on how they've refused to alter their habits so far. For example, to hear this morning that shopping 'infrequently' means not more than once a day had me choking on my tea.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Nonnie said:


> Jesus, just been reading my local community FB page and people are asking if the bloody *garden centre will be open *as they want to buy some bedding plants.
> 
> I really dont think people truly understand that they need to stay inside unless they HAVE to go out.


You can't believe some people can you


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> *China ending coronavirus lockdown in most of Hubei province*
> 
> *Restrictions on the hardest-hit city of Wuhan will remain until April 8*
> 
> *China will lift restrictions on movement in most areas of Hubei province, ending a lockdown of the area brought on by the coronavirus outbreak.*
> 
> People who are cleared will be able to leave the province after midnight on Tuesday.
> 
> Restrictions on the hardest-hit area of Wuhan, a city of 11 million where the virus originated, will remain until April 8.
> 
> China barred people from leaving or entering Wuhan and the wider province on January 23 as Covid-19 began spreading to the rest of China and overseas during the Lunar New Year holiday, when many Chinese travel.
> 
> Hubei has had almost no new infections for more than a week.
> 
> It comes on the first day of a near-lockdown in the UK.
> 
> On Monday, Boris Johnson outlined strict new measures to curb the spread of Covid-19few specific reasons .
> 
> The measures will be in place for at least three weeks and will see the closure of non-essential shops, libraries, playgrounds and outdoor gyms, and places of worship.
> 
> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/china-ending-coronavirus-lockdown-hubei-province-a4395536.html


That's great, but my anger in all of this is still solely reserved for those Chinese people who thought it was ok to eat illegal wild animals and unleash this crap on the rest of the world.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> No one will notice, nor will it matter. The only thing that matters is that everyone stays away from other people but as that's obviously too difficult for the majority to understand the govt has had to clamp down. It will impact some more than others depending on how they've refused to alter their habits so far. For example, to hear this morning that shopping 'infrequently' means not more than once a day had me choking on my tea.


Is that really the definition?

Staggering....


----------



## Psygon

havoc said:


> No one will notice, nor will it matter. The only thing that matters is that everyone stays away from other people but as that's obviously too difficult for the majority to understand the govt has had to clamp down. It will impact some more than others depending on how they've refused to alter their habits so far. For example, to hear this morning that shopping 'infrequently' means not more than once a day had me choking on my tea.


wait... what?! I assumed it meant go out once or twice a week maximum...


----------



## havoc

It was Gove (I think) said so on Breakfast tv this morning. I wasn't watching, only listening so I think it was him.


----------



## Psygon

Nonnie said:


> Jesus, just been reading my local community FB page and people are asking if the bloody garden centre will be open as they want to buy some bedding plants.
> 
> I really dont think people truly understand that they need to stay inside unless they HAVE to go out.


TO be fair, home and hardware stores are allowed to open...

I was just wondering about people's allotments. Would tending that count as someone's daily exercise?


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> I was just wondering about people's allotments. Would tending that count as someone's daily exercise?


Asked and answered in the affirmative on the same tv interview


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> TO be fair, home and hardware stores are allowed to open...
> 
> I was just wondering about people's allotments. Would tending that count as someone's daily exercise?


Probably, unless there is a group of you...


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> That's great, but my anger in all of this is still solely reserved for those Chinese people who thought it was ok to eat illegal wild animals and unleash this crap on the rest of the world.


Will certainly be interesting to see if anything changes over there, and if the government and local authorities will stop turning a blind eye to the practice. They have already been linked to previous outbreaks after all.

I would hope the international pressure and global impact of the virus, might motivate them to introduce new legislation and enforce anything they have that already exists.


----------



## Psygon

havoc said:


> Asked and answered in the affirmative on the same tv interview


I really should have watched this apparently


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> TO be fair, home and hardware stores are allowed to open...


I would imagine my local garden centre will be offering a home delivery service without delay so people can still do some gardening.


----------



## Nonnie

Psygon said:


> TO be fair, home and hardware stores are allowed to open...
> 
> I was just wondering about people's allotments. Would tending that count as someone's daily exercise?


Its more the attitude. Its a non-essential trip after all.

Pet food, fine. Garden plants? Dont think so.


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> I really should have watched this apparently


I just got annoyed. BBC presenters putting viewers questions which showed exactly why a full lockdown is probably still on the cards. People obviously have no grip on why social distancing was/is necessary or what does or doesn't constitute a danger to themselves and others.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I just got annoyed. BBC presenters putting viewers questions which showed exactly why a full lockdown is probably still on the cards. People obviously have no grip on why social distancing was/is necessary or what does or doesn't constitute a danger to themselves and others.


Still?

Why are people so stupid??


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> We got our little car serviced and MOT today, booked it months ago. Phew that was just in time. Now taxed and insured again


Yes, we did too. Also got my hair done last week and we've filled both cars with petrol in case of an emergency.


----------



## Sacrechat

havoc said:


> The projections for how the latest restrictions change and check the spread of the virus are quite dramatic. It's only how many of us were already living anyway, and how everybody should have been.
> 
> Does anyone know if the big supermarkets are allowed to carry on selling non food stuff? That does give them a huge commercial advantage which I do think is unfair. If clothes and electrical goods shops must close Tesco and Sainsbury's shouldn't get to profit from that.


At our Tesco the section selling clothes etc has been closed off.


----------



## Sairy

Nonnie said:


> Its more the attitude. Its a non-essential trip after all.
> 
> Pet food, fine. Garden plants? Dont think so.


Exactly! I've got some tomato seeds to plant and I'd like to get some of the grow bags for tomatoes to put the plants in, but guess what? It's not ESSENTIAL! So I will just use the soil already in my garden and see what happens.


----------



## kimthecat

Sairy said:


> Exactly! I've got some tomato seeds to plant and I'd like to get some of the grow bags for tomatoes to put the plants in, but guess what? It's not ESSENTIAL! So I will just use the soil already in my garden and see what happens.


Ive got the bags but no seeds or plants !


----------



## Sacrechat

purringcats said:


> People are worried about it I have read posts on various websites commenting about dog walking not being mentioned and worrying they will get fined.


I would have thought a bit of common sense would tell them that dog walking would come under the banner of exercise.


----------



## kimthecat

have newspapers and stuff for our local RSPCA . The clinic is open for emergencies. Waiting to here where they want them delivered to .


----------



## Lurcherlad

Nonnie said:


> Jesus, just been reading my local community FB page and people are asking if the bloody garden centre will be open as they want to buy some bedding plants.
> 
> I really dont think people truly understand that they need to stay inside unless they HAVE to go out.


How can they just not "get it"?

If only the virus was selective based on intelligence along the lines of the Darwin factor 

As for it being ok to go out shopping once a day I don't think that's what they meant tbh.

Go out once a day to exercise, care for a vulnerable person and work if essential. The first two can be combined (unless the dog needs walking first - so you'll have to go out twice). No drama if social distancing.

The idea is to stop group gatherings.


----------



## Sairy

I'm glad that the government are putting in tougher restrictions. Cannot believe the number of people who were still going out. My friend works in a garden centre and was shocked at the number of people out with their families on mothers day, kids running all over the place etc. I just don't get it, I really don't. This has been the first time I haven't seen my mum on mother's day so I skyped her instead. The only person I've been around since last Tuesday evening is my OH, other than once to the shops and once to get petrol. Took Holly for a walk on Friday, but due to the number of people flocking to parks over here I haven't taken her since. One of our local walks had a massive queue of people waiting to get in.

And then when it was announced that McDonald's were closing there was a mahoosive queue at the one by us, the roads were gridlocked with people queuing for their last burger and fries. I just don't get the mentality. People are dying and some peoples' priorities just seem completely upside down to me.


----------



## Sairy

kimthecat said:


> Ive got the bags but no seeds or plants !


If I don't use all mine then I can post you some seeds


----------



## Nonnie

Lurcherlad said:


> How can they just not "get it"?
> 
> If only the virus was selective based on intelligence along the lines of the Darwin factor


The thing is, these are intelligent people.

I do wonder if its the affluent attitude and inability to stay at home thats the problem. Its a very wealthy area (not me - council scum) and they always have to be doing something or going somewhere. Its like they cant deal wit the fact that all their money cant get them out of this situation. No daily visits to the beauty salon, no nail appointments, no coffee shops, no dining out daily. No holidays!


----------



## purringcats

Started slowly doing my list of tasks today to keep myself occupied during the next 21 days at home until the next update from the PM.


----------



## Sacrechat

Sairy said:


> Exactly! I've got some tomato seeds to plant and I'd like to get some of the grow bags for tomatoes to put the plants in, but guess what? It's not ESSENTIAL! So I will just use the soil already in my garden and see what happens.


Oh I don't know! Growing tomatoes could count as essential seeing as its food and you might need the tomatoes judging by all the panic buying going on.


----------



## MilleD

I believe there is going to be something going through parliament to assist the self employed if anyone hasn't see that yet.

I assume it hasn't been passed yet, it's an amendment to the coronavirus bill, I've only been sent a screen shot so hope it's true.


----------



## MilleD

Sacremist said:


> Oh I don't know! Growing tomatoes could count as essential seeing as its food and you might need the tomatoes judging by all the panic buying going on.


Chop them and tin them and you'll have a proper little industry!


----------



## havoc

Nonnie said:


> The thing is, these are intelligent people.


Obviously not.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> I've tried to explain this to my sister. The focus for enforcement is going to be stopping gatherings of people not a person on their own walking a dog.


People are so self-absorbed though, that's been the problem. Totally convinced it's all about them.


----------



## Nonnie

havoc said:


> Obviously not.


The person asking is a teacher.

Really is indicative of the area i live in. Rules just dont apply to them. Arrogant bastards.


----------



## havoc

Who was asking about the Darwin awards in an earlier thread? Your wish is my command.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/man-dead-trying-create-trumps-175600703.html


----------



## lullabydream

Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


I think the people who flout the rules won't bother with it, so there really wasn't much point IMO.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


Which one?
I received two different ones (cos Im speshul)


----------



## purringcats

lullabydream said:


> Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


No I haven't yet.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Which one?
> I received two different ones (cos Im speshul)


Assume this one


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> For example, to hear this morning that shopping 'infrequently' means not more than once a day had me choking on my tea.





havoc said:


> It was Gove (I think) said so on Breakfast tv this morning. I wasn't watching, only listening so I think it was him.


I am almost certain that Gove said once a week for essentials


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


Not had one. Perhaps @mrs phas had mine seeing as she got two


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Assume this one
> 
> View attachment 434240


Haven't had that one
Got both these yesterday

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19

And

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/gps/gp-online-services/

Both from the nhs corona service


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Haven't had that one
> Got both these yesterday
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19
> 
> And
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/gps/gp-online-services/
> 
> Both from the nhs corona service


This is from Gov.uk rather than the NHS.

It's the only one I've had.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> I am almost certain that Gove said once a week for essentials


I'm not sure if he said only once a week but to go shopping when really necessary.


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> Oh no! At least we have some sunshine to cheer us up.


I don't mind the snow. We get snow up through mid April usually. We did have some brilliantly sunny days, just before the storm, though very cold (25 F). I don't mind that either, I like it cold too.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm not sure if he said only once a week but to go shopping when really necessary.


You are right, I did think he said no more than once a week.
This is the trouble isn't it, this information isn't clear


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> You are right, I did think he said no more than once a week.
> This is the trouble isn't it, this information isn't clear


We seem to be getting mixed information.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Happy Paws2

This weeks horoscope... You'll be spending a lot of time at home.


----------



## ChaosCat

havoc said:


> Who was asking about the Darwin awards in an earlier thread? Your wish is my command.
> https://uk.yahoo.com/news/man-dead-trying-create-trumps-175600703.html




It's one thing to believe in Mr. Trump's politics- but his medical expertise...!!


----------



## Sairy

A friend of mine has just told me that the police are patrolling her street. I've just been in my front driveway and it is eerily quiet.


----------



## Siskin

Sadly the idiots are still abroad and cramming onto the tube

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-london-tube-still-full-21743272


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Sadly the idiots are still abroad and cramming onto the tube
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-london-tube-still-full-21743272


Surely they're not all key workers?


----------



## MilleD

Sairy said:


> A friend of mine has just told me that the police are patrolling her street. I've just been in my front driveway and it is eerily quiet.


That was your outside time for today, hope you haven't got anything else to do


----------



## urbantigers

lullabydream said:


> Do you think the text the government are sending will help? I presume everyone received one


Would the govt have access to everyone's phone number? No text received here.

I think it's hard to judge who is out because they need to be and who is not. I live next to a park and can see quite a few people in there.

I will have to go out later in the week to collect a prescription and I will also need to top up my gas and electric. That's something you can't have delivered.


----------



## Siskin

Garages, servicing and MOT's, an update

Husband has just had an interesting conversation with the guy that was going to service and MOT the motorhome. He says that getting hold of spare parts for any vehicle is difficult and the spare part places will be closing down as of Friday. He said he could do the MOT if we wished, but he has several cars backed up because he is waiting for spare parts and it’s likely that our van would just sit there waiting as they plan to close this week. So we cancelled. Can’t go anywhere so it can be left for now.

This is a small garage, not part of a chain or part of a car sales network. If your car is due or booked in for a service it would be worth enquiring if they will still be able to do it.


----------



## Psygon

urbantigers said:


> Would the govt have access to everyone's phone number? No text received here.
> 
> I think it's hard to judge who is out because they need to be and who is not. I live next to a park and can see quite a few people in there.
> 
> I will have to go out later in the week to collect a prescription and I will also need to top up my gas and electric. That's something you can't have delivered.


No text received here either. Though I did get one from John Lewis saying they're still here for me and I can shop on the app or online.


----------



## urbantigers

Psygon said:


> No text received here either. Though I did get one from John Lewis saying they're still here for me and I can shop on the app or online.


I am getting emails and texts from everybody I've ever bought anything from, anywhere I've ever visited and anybody I've ever given my email address too. I'ts worse than the data protection thing when everyone was emailing to ask if they could keep me on their list! Several from most saying the're open, they're open... They're closed.

My hairdressers have texted to say that they are open. I have an appt on Thursday and don't know whether to go or not. It does not seem sensible and I dont' know whether it would be included as essential. But on the other hand, I do need a haircut and don't know when I'll get another chance.


----------



## urbantigers

Siskin said:


> Garages, servicing and MOT's, an update
> 
> Husband has just had an interesting conversation with the guy that was going to service and MOT the motorhome. He says that getting hold of spare parts for any vehicle is difficult and the spare part places will be closing down as of Friday. He said he could do the MOT if we wished, but he has several cars backed up because he is waiting for spare parts and it's likely that our van would just sit there waiting as they plan to close this week. So we cancelled. Can't go anywhere so it can be left for now.
> 
> This is a small garage, not part of a chain or part of a car sales network. If your car is due or booked in for a service it would be worth enquiring if they will still be able to do it.


This is something I need to look into - my car is booked in for MOT and service on 9th April. I don't know the exact date the MOT is due as it's a motability car (due it's first MOT this year). I am a bit concerned because I know I will need to use it to collect a prescription in another 3 weeks.


----------



## lorilu

urbantigers said:


> I am getting emails and texts from everybody I've ever bought anything from, anywhere I've ever visited and anybody I've ever given my email address too. I'ts worse than the data protection thing when everyone was emailing to ask if they could keep me on their list! Several from most saying the're open, they're open... They're closed.
> 
> My hairdressers have texted to say that they are open. I have an appt on Thursday and don't know whether to go or not. It does not seem sensible and I dont' know whether it would be included as essential. But on the other hand, I do need a haircut and don't know when I'll get another chance.


Hair dressers are not essential and I would think they would do the right thing and close. Are you in the UK? You know what the lock down means?

Even if you aren't living under a government lock down somewhere. Stay home. Hair cuts are not essential.


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Sadly the idiots are still abroad and cramming onto the tube
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-london-tube-still-full-21743272


It's incomprehensible isn't it? The US was dealing with this last week in Florida with "spring break". And now the fall out..and I'm sure this is only the beginning. Who knows how many these kids have infected.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-spring-breakers-test-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB11Ac0E


----------



## MilleD

urbantigers said:


> Would the govt have access to everyone's phone number? No text received here.
> 
> I think it's hard to judge who is out because they need to be and who is not. I live next to a park and can see quite a few people in there.
> 
> I will have to go out later in the week to collect a prescription and I will also need to top up my gas and electric. That's something you can't have delivered.


A lot of companies are allowing online top ups, or sending out pre paid things that you pay for later.


----------



## MilleD

urbantigers said:


> I am getting emails and texts from everybody I've ever bought anything from, anywhere I've ever visited and anybody I've ever given my email address too. I'ts worse than the data protection thing when everyone was emailing to ask if they could keep me on their list! Several from most saying the're open, they're open... They're closed.
> 
> My hairdressers have texted to say that they are open. I have an appt on Thursday and don't know whether to go or not. It does not seem sensible and I dont' know whether it would be included as essential. But on the other hand, I do need a haircut and don't know when I'll get another chance.


The hairdressers should be closed.

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf


----------



## Lurcherlad

urbantigers said:


> I am getting emails and texts from everybody I've ever bought anything from, anywhere I've ever visited and anybody I've ever given my email address too. I'ts worse than the data protection thing when everyone was emailing to ask if they could keep me on their list! Several from most saying the're open, they're open... They're closed.
> 
> My hairdressers have texted to say that they are open. I have an appt on Thursday and don't know whether to go or not. It does not seem sensible and I dont' know whether it would be included as essential. But on the other hand, I do need a haircut and don't know when I'll get another chance.


I cancelled mine last Friday. OH is vulnerable and goodness knows who will have been in the salon all week plus a haircut is close quarters.

It wasn't worth the risk to me.

I can trim the front to keep it tidy if I have to, plus I'm not going out so who cares what I look like anyway!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Only just got my e-mail from the government so they must be sent out in dribs and drabs from the phone company's.


----------



## urbantigers

MilleD said:


> The hairdressers should be closed.
> 
> https://assets.publishing.service.g.../230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf


That's what I thought - I was surprised they are open. I wonder whether the text was automatically set up before last night's announcement.

I am not going, was just taken a bit by surprise and wondered for a moment whether I should.


----------



## Jason25

urbantigers said:


> Would the govt have access to everyone's phone number?No text received here.


I expect the government will contact every UK mobile network provider and tell them to send said message to everyone on the network. 
It might take a day or two for it to come through, think of it like at new year when everyone is sending happy new year texts, some don't get the text until the morning lol.


----------



## Cully

Anyone remember when Corona was just a bottle of pop? Sigh!


----------



## Siskin

Just had the government stay at home text. My surname begins with T so maybe that’s why it’s later then some others


----------



## urbantigers

Siskin said:


> Just had the government stay at home text. My surname begins with T so maybe that's why it's later then some others


Mine begins with D and I've not had it.... 

Maybe it depends on which phone provider you use.


----------



## Psygon

I'm an N and on O2. No text yet.


----------



## MilleD

This tickled me


----------



## kimthecat

Sairy said:


> If I don't use all mine then I can post you some seeds


I'll hold you to that :Hilarious


----------



## HarlequinCat

Siskin said:


> Garages, servicing and MOT's, an update
> 
> Husband has just had an interesting conversation with the guy that was going to service and MOT the motorhome. He says that getting hold of spare parts for any vehicle is difficult and the spare part places will be closing down as of Friday. He said he could do the MOT if we wished, but he has several cars backed up because he is waiting for spare parts and it's likely that our van would just sit there waiting as they plan to close this week. So we cancelled. Can't go anywhere so it can be left for now.
> 
> This is a small garage, not part of a chain or part of a car sales network. If your car is due or booked in for a service it would be worth enquiring if they will still be able to do it.


We had put our car in for work a week ago because we had a leak that was bad, and a broken suspension spring. We were expecting them to work on it next week because theye were busy, but we had a call this morning saying it was all done, they had a technician work on it especially because they were closing up either today or tomorrow. This was a big car branch too that also do MOTs. I think a lot are closing up for now.


----------



## catz4m8z

urbantigers said:


> I think it's hard to judge who is out because they need to be and who is not. I live next to a park and can see quite a few people in there.


I imagine they will be cracking down more on people who are gathering in groups and/or loitering. Someone who goes for an extra walk or two and stays far away from people is less of a concern then people who gather in groups.
Just wish the person who uses the park directly opposite me several times a day (with the dog that barks the entire time its in there) would be abit more self isolatey...


----------



## purringcats

Londoners defy lockdown.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ns-after-packed-trains-defy-lockdown-11962837


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> We had put our car in for work a week ago because we had a leak that was bad, and a broken suspension spring. We were expecting them to work on it next week because theye were busy, but we had a call this morning saying it was all done, they had a technician work on it especially because they were closing up either today or tomorrow. This was a big car branch too that also do MOTs. I think a lot are closing up for now.


Garages are on the list of exemptions and allowed to stay open.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> Anyone remember when Corona was just a bottle of pop? Sigh!


I swear currently the beer has never been so popular!


----------



## mrs phas

i dont think ive ever known this estate to be so quiet
its quite eerie


----------



## purringcats

I can see even stricter actions being made by the PM to make sure lockdown is adhered to.

My neighbour is throwing a party again today. All her mates came around at 11am and they have been at it since. The police are going to come around some point today they said.


----------



## urbantigers

I live next to a park - the tennis courts (some of which have basketball hoops rather than tennis nets) are usually busy constantly with people doing various activities. They have been quite busy this morning with people playing tennis etc. There is a couple playing tennis at the moment.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> Garages are on the list of exemptions and allowed to stay open.


Oh I know, Im not denying that, but there are some that are chosing to close


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Just had the government stay at home text. My surname begins with T so maybe that's why it's later then some others


Same here. Just got mine. I thought we might get letters.


----------



## lullabydream

urbantigers said:


> I live next to a park - the tennis courts (some of which have basketball hoops rather than tennis nets) are usually busy constantly with people doing various activities. They have been quite busy this morning with people playing tennis etc. There is a couple playing tennis at the moment.


They are supposed to be closed it said on the news last night as it encourages people to gather

Don't people think!

Honestly!


----------



## kimthecat

Been having some lovely isolated walks. no other dogs around so Libby and Pip dont kick off. Today we walked in fields next to Northolt Airport.


----------



## Siskin

HarlequinCat said:


> Oh I know, Im not denying that, but there are some that are chosing to close


I think it's because they can't get hold of spare parts because those places are closing down


----------



## purringcats

Just had my text.


----------



## urbantigers

Just had my text 

I wasn't aware that parks has to close? I know some are choosing to close. There's not really any way of closing the park by me - it's a large park and doesn't have gates that you can close. It's just a large open space really. Lots of dog walkers use it and that's got to be a better way of keeping your distance from other people than walking along a pavement.

Edit - checked the links in my text and it says parks will remain open but only for individuals and households to exercise once a day. Communal spaces within parks such as playgrounds and football pitches will be closed. That implies the tennis courts near me should be closed but I'm not sure how they are accessed. There should be a gate somewhere but I suspect there is open access also that can't easily be closed off. The couple playing tennis has now gone.


----------



## Siskin

This might help answer a couple of questions that have come up on this thread
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51176409


----------



## lullabydream

urbantigers said:


> Just had my text
> 
> I wasn't aware that parks has to close? I know some are choosing to close. There's not really any way of closing the park by me - it's a large park and doesn't have gates that you can close. It's just a large open space really. Lots of dog walkers use it and that's got to be a better way of keeping your distance from other people than walking along a pavement.


It's not necessarily the park area but playground areas closing and tennis courts, basketball courts that encourage more than 2 people to be together is what was said. They should all be closed. Those outdoor gym areas too, should be closed and not used. Obviously not going to be easy to monitor as some are in just outdoor wide areas.


----------



## Sairy

MilleD said:


> That was your outside time for today, hope you haven't got anything else to do


Nah, not going anywhere. Just staying in my house and garden. Luckily Holly thinks the garden is the best thing ever and has a good run around in there so that's good enough for me.


----------



## catz4m8z

Still a fair few cars out on the road...more like a regular sunday then a lockdown.


----------



## purringcats

purringcats said:


> My neighbour is throwing a party again today. All her mates came around at 11am and they have been at it since. The police are going to come around some point today they said.


The PCSO's have just turned up and told them to dispurse and go to their own homes. As soon as the PCSO's left the music went up louder and they are carrying on partying whilst everyone else is indoors. So that got ignored.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> The PCSO's have just turned up and told them to dispurse and go to their own homes. As soon as the PCSO's left the music went up louder and they are carrying on partying whilst everyone else is indoors. So that got ignored.


Then report them again. The police will only know if someone is taking the piss if someone tells them.


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> The PCSO's have just turned up and told them to dispurse and go to their own homes. As soon as the PCSO's left the music went up louder and they are carrying on partying whilst everyone else is indoors. So that got ignored.


Someone needs to phone the police again. It's ridiculous 
Let them get fined or served for wasting police time having had to come out again


----------



## purringcats

Why aren't the other neighbours complaining. I don't want to seem to be the one phoning the police all ths time.


----------



## urbantigers

I've just been for my daily constitutional to the recycling bins (about 10m). Who knew recycling bins could be so interesting! I then sat for a bit by "my" section of garden away from anyone else. Nobody else around nearby but I did see a couple of really stupid people. I saw a man come out of a nearby building and walk right alongside a Tesco delivery man returning to his van - clearly someone who does not understand what social distancing means


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> Why aren't the other neighbours complaining. I don't want to seem to be the one phoning the police all ths time.


It is okay to be that person. And you don't know, perhaps the others are complaining as well.


----------



## Sairy

Is anyone else using this as an opportunity to get through the food they've had at the back of the freezer for goodness knows how long?


----------



## Nonnie

People are dumb. The newest thing on community FB pages are people asking is someone has a certain item, or someone is selling something, and then they just pop along at collect it, completely dismissing the whole point of being on lockdown.


Sairy said:


> Is anyone else using this as an opportunity to get through the food they've had at the back of the freezer for goodness knows how long?


Im just about to attack mine with a chisel. Havent opened it for about 2 years.


----------



## purringcats

I have dialled 101 explaining what happened and they have said someone will come out again at some point today.


----------



## havoc

Well I walked my dog this morning and going for a run in a little while - and I’m not breaking any rules


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Well I walked my dog this morning and going for a run in a little while - and I'm not breaking any rules


That's twice not once isn't it?


----------



## urbantigers

Sairy said:


> Is anyone else using this as an opportunity to get through the food they've had at the back of the freezer for goodness knows how long?


Nope - small fridge freezer so no hidden places for food to lurk! My freezer is usually empty by the time each supermarket shop comes around. Well, that and the fact that half of it contains cat food.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> That's twice not once isn't it?


You're making assumptions


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> You're making assumptions


So you're still walking your dog now? 

AND going to run at the same time?


----------



## Sairy

MilleD said:


> So you're still walking your dog now?
> 
> AND going to run at the same time?


Maybe the run is on a treadmill


----------



## havoc

Sairy said:


> Maybe the run is on a treadmill


Much prefer to run outside when possible but I do have a treadmill . Normally I just use it for sprint intervals or when the weather stops me getting out. Today and for the next few weeks it's my best friend


----------



## catz4m8z

Sairy said:


> Is anyone else using this as an opportunity to get through the food they've had at the back of the freezer for goodness knows how long?


I ate leftover stuffing from xmas for tea the other night with sausage rolls! Was very tasty too.:Smug


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Much prefer to run outside when possible but I do have a treadmill . Normally I just use it for sprint intervals or when the weather stops me getting out. Today and for the next few weeks it's my best friend


Ah, it was the phrasing you used 

Going for a run sounds like out side

Going to do a run sounds like treadmill use.

In my defence


----------



## purringcats

purringcats said:


> I have dialled 111 explaining what happened and they have said someone will come out again at some point today.


Well a marked police car has just pulled up at her address. Will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## lullabydream

Am actually a little shocked. Never got up in time this morning to do my usual early morning walks, and the powers that be say only one anyway. 
So I picked a dog which was Maisie, can't give her a good off lead run.. Dog walkers everywhere.. So avoiding where I normally walk my dogs being anti social. Head in to town centre.. 2 shops open, 3 people I saw. Plenty of room for social distancing. 

Carry on to return home, about 6 cars in the car park of local retail park most shops closed with the exception of Superdrug, Wilkos, which am still struggling with as their tiny bit of medicines and small food area surely is non essential, M and S food and Holland and Barrett. Saw 4 people and 3 M and S staff outside I guess monitoring people coming in and out.. Didn't seem to realise social distancing themselves though. Easy avoided with a none busy car park.

Am actually shocked people have listened in my town as they really haven't so far and stockpiling etc has been dreadful. Even today with going to pick up food I need from Tescos, I did speak to a friend of my son who is currently monitoring people coming in and out of the shop. The abuse he's got from people as he's asked them to go and queue and remember social distancing is amazing. He had been working since 6am and this was 11am. Plus the abuse he had received for not having food in stock. It is disgusting. I honestly feel he needed someone to rant at. He's very laid back and it was water of a ducks back, but the workers are trying their best to get food out there on the shelves for others.


----------



## purringcats

Oh she didn't like that she is shouting her head off in her garden. The music has stopped. Her friends have just left. The police have just parked their car at the end of the road facing this way so they can see her address, no doubt to make sure her friends don't come back.


----------



## Sairy

catz4m8z said:


> I ate leftover stuffing from xmas for tea the other night with sausage rolls! Was very tasty too.:Smug


I almost feel like we should have a competition as to who can have the weirdest combination of foods to make up a meal.


----------



## urbantigers

I think I am going to email the local council (who manage the park next door) about the tennis courts tomorrow. I can see now the entrance the other side is just an opening and there is no door, so nothing to lock (there is a locked door the other side as they back onto private land - that's where I am). At the moment there are 2 young men doing some exercises on one court, further up there are 3 people - 2 adults and a child - the couple are playing tennis and the child appears to be mainly rolling around on the floor  Next to them, 2 lads are playing football. They are quite close to each other and clearly taking little notice of the social distancing.

Earlier there was a woman and child on one of the courts when someone else came into the same area. They promptly left but I coudnt' believe that someone would so blatantly invade someone else's space like that. Would have been bad manners at the best of times, but now...

They need to try to do something to block the entrance and put a sign up advising that the tennis courts are closed.


----------



## MilleD

urbantigers said:


> I think I am going to email the local council (who manage the park next door) about the tennis courts tomorrow. I can see now the entrance the other side is just an opening and there is no door, so nothing to lock (there is a locked door the other side as they back onto private land - that's where I am). At the moment there are 2 young men doing some exercises on one court, further up there are 3 people - 2 adults and a child - the couple are playing tennis and the child appears to be mainly rolling around on the floor  Next to them, 2 lads are playing football. They are quite close to each other and clearly taking little notice of the social distancing.
> 
> Earlier there was a woman and child on one of the courts when someone else came into the same area. They promptly left but I coudnt' believe that someone would so blatantly invade someone else's space like that. Would have been bad manners at the best of times, but now...
> 
> They need to try to do something to block the entrance and put a sign up advising that the tennis courts are closed.


Might they be groups that live together? If so, they don't need to be social distancing.


----------



## westie~ma

Has anyone else become worried that they have enough in?

Always having stuff here as a back up used to cause me less worry. Now dipping into it (even slightly) and not freely being able to go and top up is stressing me out. I find I'm second guessing myself on what I should use now to make sure I don't run out. Minimising waste too. Watching portion sizes. 

So grateful that we moved and I'm now walking distance to my mother, who btw has been self isolating for the last two years (has refused to come out for walks, a coffee, anything! due to illness) it was driving me mad but I know she will sail through this 12 weeks as long as she gets her shopping brought to her. 

Did a quick food shop today, less people which was good but some were continuing to wander around and seemed to want to drift quite close until I moved away. Suppose it takes some longer to get onboard with all this. I used my trolley to block the people behind me at the till, cashier asked me to bring the trolley closer, told them no I'm physically distancing myself.


----------



## Sairy

westie~ma said:


> Has anyone else become worried that they have enough in?
> 
> Always having stuff here as a back up used to cause me less worry. Now dipping into it (even slightly) and not freely being able to go and top up is stressing me out. I find I'm second guessing myself on what I should use now to make sure I don't run out. Minimising waste too. Watching portion sizes.
> 
> So grateful that we moved and I'm now walking distance to my mother, who btw has been self isolating for the last two years (has refused to come out for walks, a coffee, anything! due to illness) it was driving me mad but I know she will sail through this 12 weeks as long as she gets her shopping brought to her.
> 
> Did a quick food shop today, less people which was good but some were continuing to wander around and seemed to want to drift quite close until I moved away. Suppose it takes some longer to get onboard with all this. I used my trolley to block the people behind me at the till, cashier asked me to bring the trolley closer, told them no I'm physically distancing myself.


It's crossed my mind that I might not be able to get food when I run out, however I am hoping that things at the supermarkets will calm down. We're making sure not to waste food. What I do find depressing is that I imagine a lot of the food that was panic bought by people will end up getting wasted.


----------



## catz4m8z

westie~ma said:


> Did a quick food shop today, less people which was good but some were continuing to wander around and seemed to want to drift quite close until I moved away. Suppose it takes some longer to get onboard with all this. I used my trolley to block the people behind me at the till, cashier asked me to bring the trolley


just start coughing...they will soon move out of your way!:Hilarious


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> Well a marked police car has just pulled up at her address. Will be interesting to see what happens.


According to the guy on bbc1 right this minute, Daniel something, the police,and you, have jumped the gun somewhat
At the moment it's only guidance
Not
Against the law
That has to still be passed (or not) later on this week
Key phrase was
Police WILL be given
Rather than police HAVE been given
Stupidity
Yes
Lawbreaking no
Same with the tennis courts


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Might they be groups that live together? If so, they don't need to be social distancing.


I suppose they could be families, but the whole point shows lots of people use the tennis court area freely, and if no one goes home and washes hands or like children do keep touching the net for example and say a genuine tennis playing pair coming to play, re touch the area, this the problem to some degree as well.

It always made me annoyed when people used muga for dog training or letting a dog off lead just incase you can't clean up sufficiently enough afterwards. People like totally enclosed areas for children especially they feel safe letting a child run off... As it amazes you how fast a toddler runs when they catch you off guard!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sairy said:


> It's crossed my mind that I might not be able to get food when I run out, however I am hoping that things at the supermarkets will calm down. We're making sure not to waste food. What I do find depressing is that I imagine a lot of the food that was panic bought by people will end up getting wasted.


I've just managed to place an order for delivery on 5th April with Asda. There were quite a few slots available. If you have one nearby give it a try. I was going on at random times throughout the last couple of days - they must have just released them.

Hopefully, by 5th everything will have settled a bit and most of it will actually arrive - fingers crossed


----------



## daveos

Wish Boris had locked down around 4 weeks ago 88 more deaths today all because they allowed planes to come in bringing this dreadful disease. Life comes before if only they were more aggressive on testing and monitoring like Singapore and Hong Kong it is like they just sat back and did nothing.


----------



## catz4m8z

Just looking at the pictures in the papers of people congregating in parks, meeting in town centres and even having BBQs, being broken up by the police. Selfish ****wits!! I have honestly never wanted to punch people more in my life.
Why cant they get it through their heads they are killing people?


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Wish Boris had locked down around 4 weeks ago 88 more deaths today all because they allowed planes to come in bringing this dreadful disease. Life comes before if only they were more aggressive on testing and monitoring like Singapore and Hong Kong it is like they just sat back and did nothing.


I'm trapped in my own home just about, I don't consider that nothing.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I've just managed to place an order for delivery on 5th April with Asda. There were quite a few slots available. If you have one nearby give it a try. I was going on at random times throughout the last couple of days - they must have just released them.
> 
> Hopefully, by 5th everything will have settled a bit and most of it will actually arrive - fingers crossed


All I get is a page saying "give us a moment, we are just fixing something".

Must think we're idiots, if you hover over the internet tab, it says "high volume traffic"


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> All I get is a page saying "give us a moment, we are just fixing something".
> 
> Must think we're idiots, if you hover over the internet tab, it says "high volume traffic"


I got that at first, then it went in eventually.

I'd almost finished when the screen appeared again and I thought OMG I'll lose everything including my slot. I left that screen running and tried logging in again on another screen which worked, my trolley was intact, my slot secure so I checked out and paid fast!

Keep trying


----------



## urbantigers

MilleD said:


> Might they be groups that live together? If so, they don't need to be social distancing.


They didnt'n arrive or leave together, and they didn't appear to be talking to each other so I think not.

They were more than 2m apart for most of the time, but when a ball went astray someone would run after it and never mind how close they got to someone else. I think it just hasnt' sunk in with a lot of people what this all means. The idea of staying at home, except for essential activities and exercise, has not been taken on board. The weather is good (for a change - why couldnt'n we have had this when it was raining every day?) and people just want to go out and enjoy being outside. Something we'd encourage under normal circumstances but right now that needs to be curbed.


----------



## lorilu

havoc said:


> Much prefer to run outside when possible but I do have a treadmill . Normally I just use it for sprint intervals or when the weather stops me getting out. Today and for the next few weeks it's my best friend


I'm in the habit of doing laps on the stairways at work on my break. My building is 3 floors so there are lots of stairs. To replicate that at home I have to go up (and down) my own stairs 40 times. I've started doing it at home now except Mazy cat really objects to it. On the sunny days she was outside on the porch (even though it was still cold) and I managed to get my full laps in, but it's snowy again and she doesn't want to be out on the porch. After four laps she parks herself at the top of the stairs and blocks my way.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Anyone remember when Corona was just a bottle of pop? Sigh!


and it was delivered weekly to the door.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I got that at first, then it went in eventually.
> 
> I'd almost finished when the screen appeared again and I thought OMG I'll lose everything including my slot. I left that screen running and tried logging in again on another screen which worked, my trolley was intact, my slot secure so I checked out and paid fast!
> 
> Keep trying


Are they allowing you to change things after? I realise that a lot of the stuff might not be in stock when it gets to be delivered....


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> According to the guy on bbc1 right this minute, Daniel something, the police,and you, have jumped the gun somewhat
> At the moment it's only guidance
> Not
> Against the law
> That has to still be passed (or not) later on this week
> Key phrase was
> Police WILL be given
> Rather than police HAVE been given
> Stupidity
> Yes
> Lawbreaking no
> Same with the tennis courts


It maybe guidance, but it's sensible guidance. If the police didn't deem it necessary to attend they would not have done. Maybe they thought it was necessary to use the loop hole of the disturbance this middle of the day party was causing.. No one actually knows what was said to the people. However they did attend twice, and the people partying did turn up the music after the first visit.


----------



## lorilu

Now that I am well, I am in danger of becoming agoraphobic if I don't get out every day, so I am spacing my errands. I am also getting lachrymose. Yesterday I went to pick up my prescriptions. I thanked the pharmacy tech for being there, and felt my eyes get teary. Today I had to pick up some packages (pet meds) at the post office. Again, when I thanked the PO clerk for being there, I started to feel choked up with tears. I am so grateful for these people coming out to work each day so the rest of us can stay safe and still have our essential needs met.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH is going to get our prescriptions in the morning and get a few things we need, then hopefully we won't need anything till next week. 

I've been told I can't go out.


----------



## Siskin

Drove myself down to the hospital for my raidiotherapy, husband was in the middle of a prolonged phone call. Protocols are changing again in the hospital. Tomorrow when I arrive I’m to book in using my special card with a bar code, then go back and sit in the car. They will phone me when my RT is due. It saves waiting about in various waiting rooms. I was due to see the doctor on the 31st to see how things are progressing, but now I will be having a phone consult instead. Good idea.

I was surprised by how many people were out and about in Cheltenham but it mainly looked like people doing their once a day exercise and mainly keeping clear of one another unless your're a runner and then you speed past people far too close. A lot more cars on the road too. Once away from the town and driving back up onto the hills there was hardly any cars. When I got to the village there was a huge herd of fallow deer in one of the fields, they are grazing off all the young crops having already finished off the swedes grown for the cattle. Then as I was just about to enter the village a beautiful hare ran across the road.


----------



## Siskin

My main fear about food is that I can’t get another delivery slot after the 30th. Have a delivery due then, but all slots were taken the moment the next week appeared on the website. Keep checking to see if some new ones appear, but nothing.
Neither of us want to go into the store as it’s just too risky and I’m classed as vulnerable and need to stay put. I had a look on the Waitrose website to see if it was worth getting an account with them, but the first thing on their opening page was that there are no delivery slots available.
I’ve ordered loads for the delivery on the 30th and plan to put a load more on closer to the time, but I’m beginning to fret. It’s all very well Boris saying get your food delivered, but how?


----------



## lullabydream

@mrs phas just caught up with the news and MP Matt Hancock has said in the houses of Commons, has basically said all these things said yesterday about social distancing isn't guidance, they are rules which are there to be enforced by the police which could include £30 fines. So I don't know where Daniel whatsit got it from that it's just guidance. Obviously legalities have to be passed and put together but it's a reminder to everyone the law apply to everyone. Stay in your own home and protect the NHS


----------



## Psygon

Siskin said:


> My main fear about food is that I can't get another delivery slot after the 30th. Have a delivery due then, but all slots were taken the moment the next week appeared on the website. Keep checking to see if some new ones appear, but nothing.
> Neither of us want to go into the store as it's just too risky and I'm classed as vulnerable and need to stay put. I had a look on the Waitrose website to see if it was worth getting an account with them, but the first thing on their opening page was that there are no delivery slots available.
> I've ordered loads for the delivery on the 30th and plan to put a load more on closer to the time, but I'm beginning to fret. It's all very well Boris saying get your food delivered, but how?


I've never done grocery shopping online before, so don't have any accounts and can't get one at most places now. Even if I could there are no delivery slots for weeks.

We don't need many things, but we will run out of a couple of things in the next day or so. I'm hoping that maybe just maybe things might be available when we do eventually go to the shops but it seems unlikely


----------



## catz4m8z

One advantage to living in a built up area is the amount of corner shops and ethnic shops. Im avoiding the supermarkets and will just try and make meals out of whatever I can scavenge in the urban jungle!


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> It maybe guidance, but it's sensible guidance. If the police didn't deem it necessary to attend they would not have done. Maybe they thought it was necessary to use the loop hole of the disturbance this middle of the day party was causing.. No one actually knows what was said to the people. However they did attend twice, and the people partying did turn up the music after the first visit.


im not doubting its sensible guidance,
i havent been out since i got the
you are a vunerable person
text yesterday
i just feel for the underfunded and understaffed national police forces
that
on top of real crimes
which they can barely attend as it is
most normally just give a crime number, for insurance
theyve now been tasked with sorting this mess,
caused completely by idiots,
with no extra fundung
and
no extra manpower
boris should be giving funding to pay specials and pcso's,
to work full time
where, and, if they can,
at this time

I also dont understand
why the national ambulance service ( if theyre still called that)
have stood down all the first responders
when the ambulance service is overstretched as it is
which is why the first responders were set up in the first place


----------



## purringcats

mrs phas said:


> According to the guy on bbc1 right this minute, Daniel something, the police,and you, have jumped the gun somewhat
> At the moment it's only guidance
> Not
> Against the law
> That has to still be passed (or not) later on this week
> Key phrase was
> Police WILL be given
> Rather than police HAVE been given
> Stupidity
> Yes
> Lawbreaking no
> Same with the tennis courts


They are dispursing crowds of people in other parts of the country:- https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/police-break-up-group-people-17973664

My neighbours friends are not allowed around as they came around to party today. These are the rules Boris made last night. Stay away from friends and family if they do not live with you. The country is in a lockdown.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> @mrs phas just caught up with the news and MP Matt Hancock has said in the houses of Commons, has basically said all these things said yesterday about social distancing isn't guidance, they are rules which are there to be enforced by the police which could include £30 fines. So I don't know where Daniel whatsit got it from that it's just guidance. Obviously legalities have to be passed and put together but it's a reminder to everyone the law apply to everyone. Stay in your own home and protect the NHS


I also noticed that,
this is where people get confused
they listen to one person, think they know what theyre doing and then the next comes along and completely overturns it!
I know Im often self effacing, but, in truth, Im not an unintelligent person,
i just wonder how those older, or less educated, whomever manage to follow it all
and
get it right


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> im not doubting its sensible guidance,
> i havent been out since i got the
> you are a vunerable person
> text yesterday
> i just feel for the underfunded and understaffed national police forces
> that
> on top of real crimes
> which they can barely attend as it is
> most normally just give a crime number, for insurance
> theyve now been tasked with sorting this mess,
> caused completely by idiots,
> with no extra fundung
> and
> no extra manpower
> boris should be giving funding to pay specials and pcso's,
> to work full time
> where, and, if they can,
> at this time
> 
> I also dont understand
> why the national ambulance service ( if theyre still called that)
> have stood down all the first responders
> when the ambulance service is overstretched as it is
> which is why the first responders were set up in the first place


What are you arguing?

Police have been given the powers to disperse if they need to.


----------



## mrs phas

purringcats said:


> They are dispursing crowds of people in other parts of the country:- https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/police-break-up-group-people-17973664
> 
> My neighbours friends are not allowed around as they came around to party today. These are the rules Boris made last night. Stay away from friends and family of they do not live with you.


at the time of writing
it was guidance
matt hancock later changed that,
in the corona news conference,
to explain that the guidance were actually rules
however, I was right in the fact
that
it is not yet law
it still has to be passed though parliament


----------



## purringcats

mrs phas said:


> at the time of writing
> it was guidance
> matt hancock later changed that,
> in the corona news conference,
> to explain that the guidance were actually rules
> however, I was right in the fact
> that
> it is not yet law
> it still has to be passed though parliament


The police have the powers to break up and dispurse crowds of more than 2 people, Boris said it last night. Boris is higher up than Hancock.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> What are you arguing?
> 
> Police have been given the powers to disperse if they need to.


that they are understaffed and underfunded and that bj should rectify that by taking specials and pcso's into the fold, so to speak, to give the extra manpower that will be needed
just as he is doing with trainee doctors and retired doctor and nurses

it was written, quite clearly, in the post you quoted


----------



## Gemmaa

Siskin said:


> My main fear about food is that I can't get another delivery slot after the 30th. Have a delivery due then, but all slots were taken the moment the next week appeared on the website. Keep checking to see if some new ones appear, but nothing.
> Neither of us want to go into the store as it's just too risky and I'm classed as vulnerable and need to stay put. I had a look on the Waitrose website to see if it was worth getting an account with them, but the first thing on their opening page was that there are no delivery slots available.
> I've ordered loads for the delivery on the 30th and plan to put a load more on closer to the time, but I'm beginning to fret. It's all very well Boris saying get your food delivered, but how?


Do you have a Waitrose near by? They look the best bet so far, with their one in, one out thing, and people are standing far from each other.
Or Morrisons have just launched their boxes with "essentials". Not sure how good they'll be, but might help tide people over.


----------



## Siskin

Oh dear.
Two posts have just appeared on my villages social media. 
One from the pub that was doing a takeaway service from their menu, it has now stopped this
The second was from the lady who was cooking meals and delivering them to people who ordered, her prices were really good. She too has stopped doing this as her rented premises where she cooked have closed. 

So two good ways of getting a tasty evening meal are now no more.


----------



## purringcats

Just in case you didn't see it or hear what he said yesterday.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Are they allowing you to change things after? I realise that a lot of the stuff might not be in stock when it gets to be delivered....


I don't think so.

I'm just hoping that by the time it comes stocks will have been replenished or they'll send a suitable alternative.

TBH I'll be happy with whatever I get.


----------



## Siskin

Gemmaa said:


> Do you have a Waitrose near by? They look the best bet so far, with their one in, one out thing, and people are standing far from each other.
> Or Morrisons have just launched their boxes with "essentials". Not sure how good they'll be, but might help tide people over.


To be honest I darent risk going in, if either of us pick up the virus then my radiotherapy treatment will be halted. I need to have food shopping delivered.


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I'm just hoping that by the time it comes stocks will have been replenished or they'll send a suitable alternative.
> 
> TBH I'll be happy with whatever I get.


Me too, so long as it's not pasta. I hate pasta:Hilarious


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Me too, so long as it's not pasta. I hate pasta:Hilarious


The only thing really that was fully out of stock 

Just had an email that said this:

"*There's still time to amend your order*

You can keep updating your order until 11:59 PM on 4 April, 2020before your delivery slot."

Yay!


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> The only thing really that was fully out of stock


I know. Yippee


----------



## SusieRainbow

Please can we stop with the snippy comments ? 
It would be dreadful to have to close this thread, can I ask for more tolerance and respect ? 
These are scary times for everyone but we're all in it together, please let's support each other.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I have had to say goodbye to my dog today. I'm so sad but I have had to make the descion to live with my mum until this is over. I could travel to her each day as normal as I'm providing care but my husband's company has not shut down and they work within close proximity to each other, I can't take the chance despite taking every possible precaution. 
I'm so worried about my poor boy he isn't used to being left in his own all day.


----------



## willa

I had a text from the Government today. How did they get our numbers


----------



## HarlequinCat

willa said:


> I had a text from the Government today. How did they get our numbers


Magic!

Sorry couldnt resist.

They were probably able to get any active mobile numbers from all the providers as it's such unusual circumstances.


----------



## Sacrechat

willa said:


> I had a text from the Government today. How did they get our numbers


I think most people got one.


----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> I had a text from the Government today. How did they get our numbers


People are still getting them. My friend has literally just got the text.


----------



## purringcats

willa said:


> How did they get our numbers


It is actually the network providers sending the Stay at Home Government message.

This link explains it:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-52017451


----------



## Bisbow

I had the letter being sent to vulnerable people today telling me how to look after myself
I will do my best to follow the instructions but 3 months seems like a long time


----------



## havoc

Bisbow said:


> I will do my best to follow the instructions but 3 months seems like a long time


Please take it seriously. I've been unfortunate enough to interact with the NHS today (not virus related) and I would say they're already overwhelmed.


----------



## cheekyscrip

lorilu said:


> {[hug}}


Thank you! And for you...
I have to work remotely and just hate it with passion.

Tried for hours to add second monitor and still can't get them to work together.
Or the display duplicates or only one works...

Hell...my home is far too cluttered to have anyone coming and it is not allowed as lockdown..


----------



## cheekyscrip

3dogs2cats said:


> I have had to say goodbye to my dog today. I'm so sad but I have had to make the descion to live with my mum until this is over. I could travel to her each day as normal as I'm providing care but my husband's company has not shut down and they work within close proximity to each other, I can't take the chance despite taking every possible precaution.
> I'm so worried about my poor boy he isn't used to being left in his own all day.


Hugs


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Cully said:


> Anyone remember when Corona was just a bottle of pop? Sigh!


Yep, I remember when the pop van came round with glass bottles of Corona pop and you got 10p back when you returned the bottle.


----------



## catz4m8z

cheekyscrip said:


> Tried for hours to add second monitor and still can't get them to work together.
> Or the display duplicates or only one works...
> 
> Hell...my home is far too cluttered to have anyone coming and it is not allowed as lockdown..


that sucks....I had huge trouble getting my second monitor to work too. I ended up getting someone round to sort it for me. Turned out I just needed a different cable to connect it!


----------



## purringcats




----------



## purringcats




----------



## Magyarmum

A very informative video about how to wash your hands properly




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=645017466331182


----------



## Jason25

Hi can anyone advise me please

I went into isolation on Monday because I was in contact with my mum and sister over the weekend who both started showing symptoms Monday morning, so I went into isolation as well just to be on the safe side.
I know you’re not allowed to come into contact with other people so I was getting up early to walk the dog (5am) then going out again at 10pm for another walk.

this morning I’ve woke up with like a head cold, got a really bad headache and blocked nose. I feel well though. Having this, can I still walk the dog in the morning and night as long as I don’t come into contact with people?

I feel fine but I’m all confused with the updates and rules on this lol


----------



## purringcats

I think if you are in isolation and showing any symptoms you should stay indoors for 7 days if you live alone or 14 days if you live with other pelple and get someone else to take your dog(s) a walk. Can anyone else take your dog for a walk? Does your dog have access to outside space eg garden?


----------



## havoc

In theory you shouldn't leave your home but in practical terms it really does depend what sort of area you live in. The objective of that stay at home advice is to ensure you have *absolutely no contact* with anyone else. If there is even the remotest chance you might pass someone on the same side of the street then don't go out. It's just as important to ensure distance from anyone coming to your door so anyone who would walk your dog for you deserves that consideration.


----------



## Jason25

purringcats said:


> I think if you are in isolation and showing any symptoms you should stay indoors for 7 days if you live alone or 14 days if you live with other pelple and get someone else to take your dog(s) a walk. Can anyone else take your dog for a walk? Does your dog have access to outside space eg garden?


Na it's just me and the pooch, and no one else can walk her, she's a problem dog and it's best she stays under my watch lol. Yeah I've got a big garden, the getting out for walk was for my sanity lol



havoc said:


> In theory you shouldn't leave your home but in practical terms it really does depend what sort of area you live in. The objective of that stay at home advice is to ensure you have *absolutely no contact* with anyone else. If there is even the remotest chance you might pass someone on the same side of the street then don't go out.


 I live on a block, it pretty much goes round in a big circle with paths either side of the road. Cos it's early/late there's hardly any road traffic so we just walk in the middle of the road lol.
Best stay in then, don't wanna make any one ill


----------



## purringcats

People are still not taking this seriously


----------



## havoc

Yeah, you should. I live in a rural area but I do have neighbours. I put my dog in the car to go where there’s no one. I wouldn’t even do that if there were people walking along the pavement at the end of my drive. That’s very different from having to walk past other houses.


----------



## Happy Paws2

What planet does this man live on....

US President Donald Trump has said he hopes the US will shake off coronavirus by Easter, even as New York's governor sounded the alarm that the illness is spreading faster than "a bullet train".


----------



## Lurcherlad

3dogs2cats said:


> I have had to say goodbye to my dog today. I'm so sad but I have had to make the descion to live with my mum until this is over. I could travel to her each day as normal as I'm providing care but my husband's company has not shut down and they work within close proximity to each other, I can't take the chance despite taking every possible precaution.
> I'm so worried about my poor boy he isn't used to being left in his own all day.


That's a toughy


----------



## Lurcherlad

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yep, I remember when the pop van came round with glass bottles of Corona pop and you got 10p back when you returned the bottle.


Ah yes, the good old days when we weren't drowning in discarded plastic!


----------



## Bisbow

havoc said:


> Please take it seriously. I've been unfortunate enough to interact with the NHS today (not virus related) and I would say they're already overwhelmed.


Oh Believe me. I am taking it seriously thank you for your concern, Hope you are OK
Just saying it seems forever


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> What planet does this man live on....
> 
> US President Donald Trump has said he hopes the US will shake off coronavirus by Easter, even as New York's governor sounded the alarm that the illness is spreading faster than "a bullet train".


The man's an idiot! The only thing he's worried about is getting re-elected and if it means sacrificing people's lives, so what?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/24/21192812/fox-news-virtual-town-hall-donald-trump-coronavirus

*The Fox News moment that revealed a dangerously confused president*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> The man's an idiot! *The only thing he's worried about is* *getting re-elected* and if it means sacrificing people's lives, so what?


and don't forget making money.


----------



## Maurey

Re: walking dogs, and getting out of your home for your own sanity. Unless there are local laws against it, you should be perfectly safe in the park (as people tend to not interact closely with others, especially now) as long as you don't touch your own face. In this case, having a typical surgical mask on may actually be useful, in that it will remind you that 'oh, there's a thing on my face. oh, right! I shouldn't touch it!'. Definitely wear a mask if you, yourself, are sick. It will prevent you accidentally coughing or sneezing in someone's general direction (which can be an issue even if you do cover your face w/ hands).

I frequently go out into the local park for an hour (when it's above 5C where I am) for a bit of exercise outside my living room, and for a change of scenery, both with, and without my cat in her backpack. I barely see anyone, and, when I do, nobody tends to approach strangers, even with the virus not being taken particularly seriously where I am yet (because people are idiots).


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH has just gone down to Sainsbury's, I wasn't sure if I should have given him a packed lunch.


----------



## Siskin

purringcats said:


> People are still not taking this seriously


The stupidity of some people is just astounding. I wonder what bit of stay in they don't understand


----------



## Elles

havoc said:


> Yeah, you should. I live in a rural area but I do have neighbours. I put my dog in the car to go where there's no one. I wouldn't even do that if there were people walking along the pavement at the end of my drive. That's very different from having to walk past other houses.


Which puts another car on the road (May have/cause an accident, or break down) and you'll need fuel. We are supposed to only do essential travel, driving somewhere to walk the dog wouldn't come under essential. 

I rent a small yard. The advice is that one person looks after the horses ie the yard owner/renter and to avoid riding, as the nhs are under pressure and you're risking an accident. So I'm looking after the horses and they're not being ridden.

My son has been stuck in Spain. He has to register online just to go to the shop. They have to print off a pass. If he's caught outside with no pass, he'll be arrested. They aren't allowed out at all where he is.


----------



## Jaf

Elles said:


> My son has been stuck in Spain. He has to register online just to go to the shop. They have to print off a pass. If he's caught outside with no pass, he'll be arrested. They aren't allowed out at all where he is.


Oh that's odd. I haven't read about a pass system, apart from people driving to work who have to have something from their employer.


----------



## rona

Just got back from very early morning walk. Railway repair workers just starting their shift when I was heading home. All but one in a little huddle laughing and joking about 

I wonder if their families at home realise how they are being put at risk


----------



## havoc

Elles said:


> and you'll need fuel.


1. I'm doing a LOT less driving than normal
2. The only fuel I'm using is available at home and doesn't even equate to running a washing machine
3. I'm entitled to go out exercise once a day just like anyone else and it's safer for me to do that away from other people

The govt rules are perfectly clear and I don't break them.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Why are we talking about fuel? Have they said there will be a shortage of fuel?


----------



## PFModerator

I have edited the thread to remove personal comments. Please use this thread to support each other and share accurate information.
If you have any issues with either of the above please report to the moderator team rather than retaliate yourself.


----------



## catz4m8z

Im going to be strict about it, I probably could get away with going out twice to walk the dogs without anyone noticing but then Id be a giant hypocrite for getting annoyed with other people bending the rules. As it stands I'll just be getting my once a day exercise with 2 of the dogs and alternating them as we cant all walk together...the other 2 will just have to play in the garden instead!

And I am annoyed with people flouting the rules. Was nearly knocked off the pavement on my way to work last night by a couple who were absolutely paralytic. Pretty sure essential journeys are better carried out when you arent about to pass out or vomit on your shoes....:Shifty


----------



## purringcats

I thought petrol stations are staying open as they are essential so key workers can move around to and fro from work if they drive and so we can go to the supermarkets if we drive to get essential supplies and so those that have dogs can take them for walks.


----------



## Happy Paws2

He'sjust got home and managed to get what we wanted from Sainsbury's. he said getting in the store wasn't problem, it was getting to the tills.


----------



## Magyarmum

Just announced on CNN Breaking News

Prince Charles tested positive for the Coronavirus.


----------



## Jesthar

Well, to those of you complaining about garden centres still being open, the good news one on my road just shut it's doors.

The not so good news is it has a big food hall, deli and butchers, so now a lot of us locals who were staying in and shopping local to minimise risk instead have to drive to one of the big supermarkets for food and brave the crowds there.


----------



## purringcats

Prince Charles tests positive for Covid 19 (coronavirus).

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-prince-charles-tests-positive-for-covid-19-11963363


----------



## Elles

Jaf said:


> Oh that's odd. I haven't read about a pass system, apart from people driving to work who have to have something from their employer.


He's English in Madrid, don't know if that makes a difference?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

purringcats said:


> Prince Charles tests positive for Covid 19 (coronavirus).
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-prince-charles-tests-positive-for-covid-19-11963363


Interesting that he and the Duchess of Cornwall met the criteria for testing as I though currently only those in hospital were being tested by the NHS?


----------



## Elles

3dogs2cats said:


> Why are we talking about fuel? Have they said there will be a shortage of fuel?


No, but if we use fuel, we use a garage, which health care staff and key workers have no choice over. I read something that said, don't treat it as though you don't have it and don't want to catch it, treat it as though you do have it and don't want to give it to someone else. If everyone drove their cars somewhere to take the dog for a walk, we'd have to just give up. If it's ok for havoc to do, it's ok for everyone else. Which is why Haldon forest car park was full and people parking on the road yesterday. They were just taking the dog for a walk, or going for a (mountain) bike ride.

If we're involved in an accident, do we really want to tell pressured nhs staff that we were just driving to take the dog for a walk? Or pull ambulance and paramedic services to isolated areas unnecessarily?

It might actually be ok for havoc as an individual, but I think keeping quiet about it might be wise lol.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

The only thing on a personal level I have concerns with at the moment is getting hold of my repeat medications.

I would normally hand in my repeat prescription to the pharmacy at the beginning of the week and then collect it at the end of the week (due to do that next week); I'm quite prepared to do it online via Patient Access but when I investigated I couldn't see any reference to how they would notify you when it was ready or if they would automatically deliver it - I can't afford to run out as I am diabetic and also have heart problems. I've been trying to ring the pharmacy for advice but their telephone has been permanently engaged for the last 3 days (I think they've taken it off the hook !) Can't get through to the GP for advice either, and even I could I doubt the reception would know the answer


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> Interesting that he and the Duchess of Cornwall met the criteria for testing as I though currently only those in hospital were being tested by the NHS?


The heir to the throne is said to have displayed "mild symptoms" on Sunday and was then tested on Monday, with the results coming through late on Tuesday night.


----------



## purringcats

Bertie'sMum said:


> The only thing on a personal level I have concerns with at the moment is getting hold of my repeat medications.
> 
> I would normally hand in my repeat prescription to the pharmacy at the beginning of the week and then collect it at the end of the week (due to do that next week); I'm quite prepared to do it online via Patient Access but when I investigated I couldn't see any reference to how they would notify you when it was ready or if they would automatically deliver it - I can't afford to run out as I am diabetic and also have heart problems. I've been trying to ring the pharmacy for advice but their telephone has been permanently engaged for the last 3 days (I think they've taken it off the hook !) Can't get through to the GP for advice either, and even I could I doubt the reception would know the answer


When you place your prescription online it takes 3 working days for it to be ready to collect at the pharmacy you designate. I have been using this method for ages. The pharmacy I use have told me though they will home deliver mine during the coronavirus lockdown as I am in the vulnerable group.


----------



## Siskin

Bertie'sMum said:


> The only thing on a personal level I have concerns with at the moment is getting hold of my repeat medications.
> 
> I would normally hand in my repeat prescription to the pharmacy at the beginning of the week and then collect it at the end of the week (due to do that next week); I'm quite prepared to do it online via Patient Access but when I investigated I couldn't see any reference to how they would notify you when it was ready or if they would automatically deliver it - I can't afford to run out as I am diabetic and also have heart problems. I've been trying to ring the pharmacy for advice but their telephone has been permanently engaged for the last 3 days (I think they've taken it off the hook !) Can't get through to the GP for advice either, and even I could I doubt the reception would know the answer


The pharmacy I use which is part of the doctors surgery says they like two clear days before your prescription is ready. They told me that no one is coming to the surgery now so I can just go in and collect it as normal. My doctor phoned me on Tuesday to see if I was ok still which was rather nice


----------



## urbantigers

Bertie'sMum said:


> The only thing on a personal level I have concerns with at the moment is getting hold of my repeat medications.
> 
> I would normally hand in my repeat prescription to the pharmacy at the beginning of the week and then collect it at the end of the week (due to do that next week); I'm quite prepared to do it online via Patient Access but when I investigated I couldn't see any reference to how they would notify you when it was ready or if they would automatically deliver it - I can't afford to run out as I am diabetic and also have heart problems. I've been trying to ring the pharmacy for advice but their telephone has been permanently engaged for the last 3 days (I think they've taken it off the hook !) Can't get through to the GP for advice either, and even I could I doubt the reception would know the answer


I'm in the same boat. I spoke to my GP on Monday morning and he sent it all through to Boots. But I can't get through to Boots to chase it (theoretically they send a text to let me know when it's ready to pick up but I know that doesn't always happen). It's possible that not only will I have to go in to actually speak to someone about it, but then I may need to go back a second time to pick it up. I am not panicking just yet but am worried that I won't get my meds in time (not meant to stop them suddenly) but that I will also have to go in twice to find out what's going on.


----------



## O2.0

Jason25 said:


> Hi can anyone advise me please
> 
> I went into isolation on Monday because I was in contact with my mum and sister over the weekend who both started showing symptoms Monday morning, so I went into isolation as well just to be on the safe side.
> I know you're not allowed to come into contact with other people so I was getting up early to walk the dog (5am) then going out again at 10pm for another walk.
> 
> this morning I've woke up with like a head cold, got a really bad headache and blocked nose. I feel well though. Having this, can I still walk the dog in the morning and night as long as I don't come into contact with people?
> 
> I feel fine but I'm all confused with the updates and rules on this lol


As long as you're not going to come in to contact with anyone, I do think it's fine to take Daisy out. 
As well as being mindful of no contact, also be very aware of everything you touch and if someone else might touch it. Your door for example, any public gates or benches... Just be mindful.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jesthar said:


> Well, to those of you complaining about garden centres still being open, the good news one on my road just shut it's doors.
> 
> The not so good news is it has a big food hall, deli and butchers, so now a lot of us locals who were staying in and shopping local to minimise risk instead have to drive to one of the big supermarkets for food and brave the crowds there.


They could have cordoned off the plant section and restricted sales to only essentials to help the locals, surely?


----------



## Lurcherlad

3dogs2cats said:


> Interesting that he and the Duchess of Cornwall met the criteria for testing as I though currently only those in hospital were being tested by the NHS?


Not a surprise to me - he is the Heir to the Throne.


----------



## mrs phas

3dogs2cats said:


> Interesting that he and the Duchess of Cornwall met the criteria for testing as I though currently only those in hospital were being tested by the NHS?


Do you really think he went via the same route us plebs have to?
He, and she, can afford to go private, and, most likely did, the slightest sniffle and the royal physician would have been there within minutes
Taking strain OFF the understaffed and overworked NHS

Although, now, to follow our esteemed leaders diktats, s/he should be self isolating for the next 14 days, having been in attendance to a person testing positive


----------



## rona

Is anyone else isolating parcels and letters for a few days before opening them?

Just had a courier who was not wearing gloves.....................

Also with delivered shopping. I am wearing gloves to unpack, which is happening on patio (thank goodness for the weather. All outer packaging removed and binned, fruit and veg washed as far as possible and some if not perishable, will be kept in boxes for a few days before being unpacked into my kitchen.
I know I can't stop it all but am trying really hard.
Walks are now moved to 5-5.30am for 3-4 hour duration, as I can't trust the masses of dickheads I meet when I'm out later


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> The man's an idiot! The only thing he's worried about is getting re-elected and if it means sacrificing people's lives, so what?
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2020/3/24/21192812/fox-news-virtual-town-hall-donald-trump-coronavirus
> 
> *The Fox News moment that revealed a dangerously confused president*


He's really such an ass I can't even...
Schools here are closed at least until May, in other states governors have ordered schools closed for the year. It doesn't mean anything for him to say the country will reopen April 12, governors for each state have already made different directives. 
Such a blatant example of economy over people....


----------



## Lurcherlad

Deliveries and shopping get sprayed with antibac.


----------



## Jobeth

It is on their Facebook page if anyone wants a direct link to the source.


----------



## lorilu

rona said:


> Is anyone else isolating parcels and letters for a few days before opening them?


Yes.


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> Is anyone else isolating parcels and letters for a few days before opening them?
> 
> Just had a courier who was not wearing gloves.....................
> 
> Also with delivered shopping. I am wearing gloves to unpack, which is happening on patio (thank goodness for the weather. All outer packaging removed and binned, fruit and veg washed as far as possible and some if not perishable, will be kept in boxes for a few days before being unpacked into my kitchen.
> I know I can't stop it all but am trying really hard.
> Walks are now moved to 5-5.30am for 3-4 hour duration, as I can't trust the masses of dickheads I meet when I'm out later


 Yup. Or we use wipes on them as we open them if they are parcels. Also wipe anything that has come via home delivery or click and collect.

When we go for a walk we try to go somewhere quiet as possible. And if we see anyone on a path we walk on the grass giving them 5m space at least.


----------



## mrs phas

Post removed by me as irrelevant information


----------



## 3dogs2cats

mrs phas said:


> Do you really think he went via the same route us plebs have to?
> He, and she, can afford to go private, and, most likely did, the slightest sniffle and the royal physician would have been there within minutes
> Taking strain OFF the understaffed and overworked NHS
> 
> Although, now, to follow our esteemed leaders diktats, s/he should be self isolating for the next 14 days, having been in attendance to a person testing positive


It says on the BBC news site ( may not be correct of course) he was tested by the NHS having fulfilled the testing requirement. I thought only hospital patients were being tested at the moment. Maybe he had been admitted to hospital.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Has anyone else had this posted on their social media ?
> 
> View attachment 434315


No but it's not from this country I wouldn't share it. Its not accurate


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> No but it's not from this country I wouldn't share it. Its not accurate


That's what I was trying to find out
I will remove it forthwith


----------



## Bisbow

Just how low can some people get?

A gang of sub human shop lifters stole all the pain killer meds from or local co-op

Not very bright though, got caught before they got out of the car park

SCUM


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Is anyone else isolating parcels and letters for a few days before opening them?


God no!

Laithwaites have just delivered :Hilarious


----------



## catz4m8z

Personally I still think people need to be abit more serious about things and not think its ok to ignore guidelines coz its just them or they probably wont see anyone else. Surely if we all do that then we might as well not have bothered in the first place??



3dogs2cats said:


> It says on the BBC news site ( may not be correct of course) he was tested by the NHS having fulfilled the testing requirement. I thought only hospital patients were being tested at the moment. Maybe he had been admitted to hospital.


I want to know when are they going to start testing for frontline staff? The NHS cant afford to have lots of people out sick for 14 days coz they just have a cough. Something like the antibody test would be awesome as we could put people where they need to go and keep everybody as safe as possible. 
Frankly the PPE we are using is about as effective as a roll of cling film and a hankie, would really help to know who might have some natural immunity now.


----------



## Calvine

Bisbow said:


> stole all the pain killer meds from or local co-op


To sell on eBay I'm guessing!


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Is anyone else isolating parcels and letters for a few days before opening them?


Nope,
The only thing I'm doing different, apart from self isolating, is when I had to use a supermarket loo, making sure I had some tissue to use, after hand washing, to open loo door with
This has made me very aware, of just how many pee and go


----------



## Calvine

Bertie'sMum said:


> I doubt the reception would know the answer


I was told very emphatically by one of the GPs that the reception staff have no medical training whatsoever and NOT to ask them anything at all. And yet one of them took it upon herself to take my BP (think the nurse was late) and had no idea what was high and what was not.


----------



## Elles

Does anyone believe that China has no new cases and fewer deaths than Spain and Italy?


----------



## Bertie'sMum

purringcats said:


> When you place your prescription online it takes 3 working days for it to be ready to collect at the pharmacy you designate. I have been using this method for ages. The pharmacy I use have told me though they will home deliver mine during the coronavirus lockdown as I am in the vulnerable group.





Siskin said:


> The pharmacy I use which is part of the doctors surgery says they like two clear days before your prescription is ready. They told me that no one is coming to the surgery now so I can just go in and collect it as normal. My doctor phoned me on Tuesday to see if I was ok still which was rather nice





urbantigers said:


> I'm in the same boat. I spoke to my GP on Monday morning and he sent it all through to Boots. But I can't get through to Boots to chase it (theoretically they send a text to let me know when it's ready to pick up but I know that doesn't always happen). It's possible that not only will I have to go in to actually speak to someone about it, but then I may need to go back a second time to pick it up. I am not panicking just yet but am worried that I won't get my meds in time (not meant to stop them suddenly) but that I will also have to go in twice to find out what's going on.


thank you all for your replies  I was thinking of ordering them before the end of this week, but I'm not due a repeat until next week - when I tried to order them too early previously (in person, sometime last year) they GP refused to sign it off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I said I normally order them 5 working days in advance, so that collection day coincides with my usual supermarket day (pharmacy is next door) and I'd like to maintain that timetable so that I don't have to make more journeys out than absolutely necessary especially at the moment !


----------



## Siskin

Elles said:


> Does anyone believe that China has no new cases and fewer deaths than Spain and Italy?


No not really, they are cross because everyone is pointing the finger at them as to the source of the virus due to their awful markets and lack of hygiene. Probably scared that the rest of the world will demand recompense


----------



## purringcats

I never laughed so much when I had my home shopping today. Last night they had everything in when I finished the shopping online. Today when the shopping got delivered the delivery man said they did not have any frozen ready meals in. As I took the supplies I purchased out of the trays in my kitchen I said what is the dog food for I did not order any as I do not have a dog. The delivery man said that is what they substituted the ready meals for. :Hilarious Of course he said he would take them back with him and I would get a refund.


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> They could have cordoned off the plant section and restricted sales to only essentials to help the locals, surely?


Well, it is a (small) national chain, so they may not have had a choice. It does seem like a waste of very good facilities, though. I suppose it depends on how easy it would have been to move the displays around without breaking the distancing rules. They also do a range of pet food as well, including fresh, so that will be a blow for people too.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

purringcats said:


> I never laughed so much when I had my home shopping today. Last night they had everything in when I finished the shopping online. Today when the shopping got delivered the delivery man said they did not have any frozen ready meals in. As I took the supplies I purchased out of the trays in my kitchen I said what is the dog food for I did not order any as I do not have a dog. The delivery man said that is what they substituted the ready meals for. :Hilarious Of course he said he would take them back with him and I would get a refund.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

Must admit that sometimes when I open Bertie's cat food pouches I often think how tasty the contents look; haven't had the 'courage' to actually taste any yet !
Although I can remember when I was a kid and we had a cat, we did find my Father 'enjoying' a spoonful or two of canned Whiskas ! He said it tasted almost as good as Mum's casserole


----------



## Lurcherlad

purringcats said:


> I never laughed so much when I had my home shopping today. Last night they had everything in when I finished the shopping online. Today when the shopping got delivered the delivery man said they did not have any frozen ready meals in. As I took the supplies I purchased out of the trays in my kitchen I said what is the dog food for I did not order any as I do not have a dog. The delivery man said that is what they substituted the ready meals for. :Hilarious Of course he said he would take them back with him and I would get a refund.


Tbh you could probably put it in a pie


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> Does anyone believe that China has no new cases and fewer deaths than Spain and Italy?


Haven't believed anything coming out of China from the start to be honest.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh you could probably put it in a pie


rool


----------



## purringcats

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh you could probably put it in a pie


:Vomit
No thanks. I will stick to human food.


----------



## Jesthar

purringcats said:


> :Vomit
> No thanks. I will stick to human food.


I used to get raw food delivered for a frends dog as well as my cats. One time, their college age kids mistook the dog food for mince whilst the parents were away, and made a curry from it - delicious, apparently!


----------



## lullabydream

Hilarious substitute @purringcats am amazed they had dog food. I went to my local Tescos yesterday and the whole pet food aisle empty except a few dog toys. Which was good because I needed one.


----------



## catz4m8z

I dont get how stores are still having empty shelves. Surely people are all caught up on there panic buying by now!?
Some peoples homes must look like a Tesco warehouse!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> I dont get how stores are still having empty shelves. Surely people are all caught up on there panic buying by now!?
> Some peoples homes must look like a Tesco warehouse!LOL:Hilarious


That's what I keep thinking. I just wonder where they are putting it all


----------



## lullabydream

https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB11F1MF?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare

If you haven't seen this I love the little video clip of the policeman..

@purringcats are you sure this isn't your neighbour falsely reported as a bbq?


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think it seems worse because (on top of the extreme shoppers ) stores aren’t replenishing until they close.

No point trying while customers are in, plus no way staff can be assured of safe distancing as customers would be all over them.

Unless you get there early you don’t stand much chance really.


----------



## catz4m8z

ok...so you know priorities have shifted when one of your dog has an accident on the kitchen floor and your first reaction is to berate them for making you waste kitchen roll! :Hilarious
(also when you try not to poop until you get to work so you arent using up your own toilet roll!:Shy:Smuggrin).


----------



## kimthecat

Everyone here in my small area are abiding by the rules , streets very quiet. We took newspapers and some dog kibble to the local RSPCA , they are closed to public but leave stuff by the gate and someone will take it in. 

My very kind neighbour managed to get some paracetamol for us from our local chemist as we didnt have any.


----------



## urbantigers

It's a joke around here. Not exactly crowds but small groups of people on tennis courts/in the park, neighbours talking to each other through open windows (not even 1 metre apart let alone 2) and lots seemingly going about their business as normal or just going out for the day because the weather's nice.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Siskin said:


> That's what I keep thinking. I just wonder where they are putting it all


Apparently Amazon has a reported a big rise in the purchase of chest freezers


----------



## lullabydream

urbantigers said:


> It's a joke around here. Not exactly crowds but small groups of people on tennis courts/in the park, neighbours talking to each other through open windows (not even 1 metre apart let alone 2) and lots seemingly going about their business as normal or just going out for the day because the weather's nice.


I did have a chat with my neighbour yesterday, who lives next door but one. OH said how far were you apart, a whole garden width. I live in a terraced house so that's definitely more than 2 metres.

Currently trying to avoid one neighbour, whose outside with her grandchildren. Not to be nasty but I know if she spies me she comes to the wall, where it's low to see me, then to hear her I would have to get close as her grandchildren as children do are playing so we would be in close proximity. Would actually love an update on her newborn grandchild but that will have to wait.


----------



## Cully

It's getting to me.
I was watching an old classic episode of Corrie, and was momentarily shocked to see the Rovers was full. Then I realised what I was watching.
Too much news watching I think!!


----------



## stuaz

Not sure if it's been posted or not but this might be of use to some of you who are self isolating and struggling to get food deliveries.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/morrisons-coronavirus-next-day-delivery-21749939

you don't get to choose what you get but I guess if your really struggling then it probably doesn't matter too much the brand of soup or pasta etc.


----------



## purringcats

Bertie'sMum said:


> Apparently Amazon has a reported a big rise in the purchase of chest freezers


But is a chest freezer essential?

Amazon should not be selling electrical items. I understand they sell food but perhaps they should close there online electrical goods etc. All other electrical shops have had to close to abide with the Government.


----------



## Jesthar

purringcats said:


> But is a chest freezer essential?
> 
> Amazon should not be selling electrical items. I understand they sell food but perhaps they should close there online electrical goods etc. All other electrical shops have had to close to abide with the Government.


Online shopping is not restricted. It's non-essential bricks and mortar stores that have had to close.


----------



## lullabydream

purringcats said:


> But is a chest freezer essential?
> 
> Amazon should not be selling electrical items. I understand they sell food but perhaps they should close there online electrical goods etc. All other electrical shops have had to close to abide with the Government.


Online electrical stores still open. 
As bad as it seems people will still need white goods and other electrical items too.

The media cannot get it right about who needs to work, yes key workers need to get to work so do those who can't get to work such as the manufacturing industries for example. If everywhere shut up shop we would have no infrastructure; no economy we really would be up a creek with no paddle.

People need to be sensible though. Car sharing with Fred down the road, although that maybe two cars on the road than one, it's better for social distancing. Make sure you can social distance at work. Am sure health and safety, compliance has come up with answers for this including options for breaks too. If you can walk and not use the car. Only travel in the car if completely necessary, as with public transport.


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Online shopping is not restricted. It's non-essential bricks and mortar stores that have had to close.


not restricted, no
if one can wait 4 weeks for a delivery date
*thats *the problem for those of us who would never dream of stockpiling
had to go to tesco today, the person i spoke to said people are still taking pasta as soon as it gets put out
and
that its on *every* delivery
at least son no4 could get gluten free today


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Does anyone believe that China has no new cases and fewer deaths than Spain and Italy?


seeing as that whistleblowing dr, who unfortunately sucuumbed to coronavirus ( allegedly, either way hes dead now)
it was known at the end of september '19
the chinese government shut him down
it wasnt until it could be no longer contained, in dec'19
that news of a new virus 'suddenly' appearing was released
so, no, I wouldnt believe the chinese government if they told me monday came after sunday
until id checked it with at least three calenders/diarys


----------



## mrs phas

off-licences have been added to the list of those allowed to open
Well done BJ,
The bladdered are well known for making sensible decisions
And keeping A&E free for actual emergencies
Of all those that could be allowed to open, offies should be bottom of the list


----------



## rona

For nearly 3 weeks now we have been restricting food a little and meal planning a lot more. Have cut down massively on bread, potatoes and sweets.
OH has been off for nearly two weeks with a bad back while I have continued to exercise quite heavily.
How is it that he's lost weight and mines stubbornly refusing to budge?


----------



## Jesthar

lullabydream said:


> The media cannot get it right about who needs to work, yes key workers need to get to work so do those who can't get to work such as the manufacturing industries for example. If everywhere shut up shop we would have no infrastructure; no economy we really would be up a creek with no paddle


I work in the water industry. If WE shut up shop, pretty much _everyone _is dead...


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> I work in the water industry. If WE shut up shop, pretty much _everyone _is dead...


Yes exactly.. They tend to think key worker is nhs... I do think you are under key worker


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I work in the water industry. If WE shut up shop, pretty much _everyone _is dead...


I've liked this, but didn't really mean 'like' if you get what I mean!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

This new test looks as though it will be "ready in days, not weeks or months". A glimmer of optimism. 

*Coronavirus test: UK to make 15-minute at-home kits available within days

*


----------



## MilleD

samuelsmiles3 said:


> This new test looks as though it will be "ready in days, not weeks or months". A glimmer of optimism.
> 
> *Coronavirus test: UK to make 15-minute at-home kits available within days
> *


This worries me a little as, as with any test, there could be false positives and folks think they are then immune. And around we go again.

I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## mrs phas

samuelsmiles3 said:


> This new test looks as though it will be "ready in days, not weeks or months". A glimmer of optimism.
> 
> *Coronavirus test: UK to make 15-minute at-home kits available within days
> *


sod buying it
they should be sent out to every household, using any and all means possible, to determine how many are needed in each home
this is not a time to be worried about who knows what about us
its a time to be saving, and/or minimising the risk to lives


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just found a note in the front door from a lady up the road saying if we needed anything, she'll try and get for us, and left her phone number. just phoned to thank her.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> I've liked this, but didn't really mean 'like' if you get what I mean!


I know  And don't worry - our contingency plans have congingency plans. It's a bit different from the kind of scenario we've always anticipated dealing with (losing key sites for extended periods), but we're managing.


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> This worries me a little as, as with any test, there could be false positives and folks think they are then immune. And around we go again.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong.


I think thats why they probably wont be ready in days, the government has already said that they want to make sure any test is fully accurate before using them.
Hopefully soon though...frankly I dont want to have to go off sick just coz I have a niggly cough!


----------



## purringcats

These new tests should be available for free to every household in the UK as peoples finances are already strained. The problem with having them for sale on Amazon will be some people will buy them in bulk and then resell them at inflated prices.


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> not restricted, no
> if one can wait 4 weeks for a delivery date
> *thats *the problem for those of us who would never dream of stockpiling
> had to go to tesco today, the person i spoke to said people are still taking pasta as soon as it gets put out
> and
> that its on *every* delivery
> at least son no4 could get gluten free today


I meant online shopping is not restricted at all, in any way. Although many smaller online only businesses are also closing shop - I have several friends who sell handmade good online as their main souce of income, and some of them have received what are tantamount to death threats because they didn't shut their Etsy shops immediately. People who don't even know them calling them murderers, profiteers and all sorts. Although I would be happy to wager that those same people wouldn't think twice about ordering from Amazon or other big retailers, who have hundreds of staff on their warehouse sites...


----------



## MilleD

A little light relief. I saw a post on facebook on my town page with someone saying they have always had a slight cough due to an underlying condition that isn't related and daren't do it in public now. And someone responded:

" I know, I used to have to cough to hide a fart, now I fart to hide a cough".

It tickled me.

Feel free to ignore me if you feel it's inappropriate...


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> I meant online shopping is not restricted at all, in any way. Although many smaller online only businesses are also closing shop - I have several friends who sell handmade good online as their main souce of income, and some of them have received what are tantamount to death threats because they didn't shut their Etsy shops immediately. People who don't even know them calling them murderers, profiteers and all sorts. Although I would be happy to wager that those same people wouldn't think twice about ordering from Amazon or other big retailers, who have hundreds of staff on their warehouse sites...


That's terrible.

My friends a child's dressmaker and she's been asked a lot about making masks for children to stop their children getting Covid-19. I helped her put together an email stating its a myth, etc and got some really nice replies about thanking her for not wanting to waste their money. Some terrible replies too, which we both knew she would get.

It's not that she can't devise a pattern herself or there isn't a pattern available, there are absolutely loads. People are messaging her asking does she want a free pattern for a face mask.


----------



## Dave S

My thoughts on BoJo have changed since we were all throwing our dummies out on the Brexit and election threads. As a person I do not like him, I believe he is only out for himself and he is not interested in anyone else.
Since this latest crisis he seems to have taken it on his shoulders and become a lot more "human" and seems to be handling it very well.
I know you vote for the party not the man and it is early days but I think he is actually doing a good job so far.

God knows what state we would be in if Corbyn had won the election...…………….


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> *God knows what state we would be in if Corbyn had won the election...*…………….


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> It's getting to me.
> I was watching an old classic episode of Corrie, and was momentarily shocked to see the Rovers was full. Then I realised what I was watching.
> Too much news watching I think!!


I've been feeling the same way watching tv. Every time they show people in a group standing together I keep wanting to shout 'social distancing you fools'. It's really odd. I think it will take quite a while not to distance ourselves when this is over


----------



## Siskin

stuaz said:


> Not sure if it's been posted or not but this might be of use to some of you who are self isolating and struggling to get food deliveries.
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/morrisons-coronavirus-next-day-delivery-21749939
> 
> you don't get to choose what you get but I guess if your really struggling then it probably doesn't matter too much the brand of soup or pasta etc.


I hate pasta so I could sell it on line for a vast profit

I am joking by the way


----------



## Dave S

Reading the Daily Mail earlier it has a two page report on the new rules.

Can my children see their grandparents - No because the grandparents would be in a vulnerable group etc.

Can the window cleaner and Gardner still carry out his business - Not clear but the outside nature of the business makes it safer to carry out but it is not strictly essential. Outdoor workers in Scotland are encouraged if safe to continue *but no guidance in England so far*.

I thought BoJo was Prime Minister in the UK so how could Scotland have different rules?

Now, I would state here that although I was supposed to do sons garden this week I will not be doing so as they have a little baby - 10 weeks, as well as a 4.5 year old and I do not wish to harm any of them in any way and I am also carer for my Mother who is 90 years old who also has underlying health problems.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I think it will take quite a while not to distance ourselves when this is over


I always have  It's just others are doing it too now..........one positive for me


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> A little light relief. I saw a post on facebook on my town page with someone saying they have always had a slight cough due to an underlying condition that isn't related and daren't do it in public now. And someone responded:
> 
> " I know, I used to have to cough to hide a fart, now I fart to hide a cough".
> 
> It tickled me.
> 
> Feel free to ignore me if you feel it's inappropriate...


As I was leaving the hospital after the radiotherapy I gave a couple of coughs. I suddenly realised what I had done and said to the staff that it was the air conditioning that gets to me, which to be fair was the reason I did have a cough. I was relieved when she said that she was just the same.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> As I was leaving the hospital after the radiotherapy I gave a couple of coughs. I suddenly realised what I had done and said to the staff that it was the air conditioning that gets to me, which to be fair was the reason I did have a cough. I was relieved when she said that she was just the same.


I think I have said before but my asthma has been a bit pants since around Christmas so I cough with a wheeze occasionally then it's fine. 
My friends daughter just before lockdown wanted to send me home.. I think it was the daughters perfume which triggered it!


----------



## Jesthar

*sigh* You can't make it up, can you? A nearby pub (already closed itself) has posted that they are now closing off their car park too (which they have always made available for community use as parking is non-existant there otherwise), as idiots are letting their children gather there in gangs, and are also bringing their own drinks to have get togethers in the outside seating area in the pub garden! They're very apologetic about it as this also closes off the only local access to the canal towpath, but they have no choice.

You know, I'm beginning to think maybe we could repurpose some of the closed holiday parks for the duration as enforced quarantine camps for serial lockdown flouters... Lock them in a chalet with some basic rations, one loo roll, and TV limited to the news channels


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1647316/world

*Deputy British ambassador to Hungary dies after contracting coronavirus*


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> A little light relief. I saw a post on facebook on my town page with someone saying they have always had a slight cough due to an underlying condition that isn't related and daren't do it in public now. And someone responded:
> 
> " I know, I used to have to cough to hide a fart, now I fart to hide a cough".
> 
> It tickled me.
> 
> Feel free to ignore me if you feel it's inappropriate...


Even at nearly 59, you can't beat a good fart joke
Thank you for making me smile


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> They're
> very apologetic about it as this also closes off the only local access to the canal towpath, but they have no choice.


Completely understand their reasoning,
But
If it's a designated public footpath, even across private land 
They cannot do it, no restrictions on use of public footpaths have been announced
However
They're damned if they do
And damned if they don't
Hopefully they're keeping themselves safe from harm, which is the main thing, and are able to reopen when allowed


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> Completely understand their reasoning,
> But
> If it's a designated public footpath, even across private land
> They cannot do it, no restrictions on use of public footpaths have been announced
> However
> They're damned if they do
> And damned if they don't
> Hopefully they're keeping themselves safe from harm, which is the main thing, and are able to reopen when allowed


They have been TOLD to close it by the authorities as a matter of public health, so they don't actually have any choice. And from the wording of the annoucement, it's a private access path they have always chosen to make available as a community benefit. They had over 10 separate large groups trying to congregate in the pub garden today, so doing nothing is not an option...


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> They have been TOLD to close it by the authorities as a matter of public health, so they don't actually have any choice. And from the wording of the annoucement, it's a private access path they have always chosen to make available as a community benefit.


Hence me asking 
As I said
Damned if they do
Damned if they don't

Some people don't realise how good they have it, until it's not available any more


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> Does anyone believe that China has no new cases and fewer deaths than Spain and Italy?


I tend not to believe figures that come from China . . . call me old-fashioned!


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Just had a courier who was not wearing gloves...


Don't worry too much about that, rona . . . the gloves will protect him, not you, as he could have been wearing them all day and touched countless dodgy surfaces. He's not like a dentist, changing them in between every patient (supposedly).


----------



## Nonnie

I do find the death of a 21 year old with no [known] health problems quite worrying.


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> Hence me asking
> As I said
> Damned if they do
> Damned if they don't
> 
> Some people don't realise how good they have it, until it's not available any more


When I told one of the doctors in my family, they said (and I quote) "I'm not usually one to advocate firebombs, but..."


----------



## karenmc

Siskin said:


> My main fear about food is that I can't get another delivery slot after the 30th. Have a delivery due then, but all slots were taken the moment the next week appeared on the website. Keep checking to see if some new ones appear, but nothing.
> Neither of us want to go into the store as it's just too risky and I'm classed as vulnerable and need to stay put. I had a look on the Waitrose website to see if it was worth getting an account with them, but the first thing on their opening page was that there are no delivery slots available.
> I've ordered loads for the delivery on the 30th and plan to put a load more on closer to the time, but I'm beginning to fret. It's all very well Boris saying get your food delivered, but how?


It sounds like lots of people are struggling to get delivery slots. Would the click and collect service that Asda have be a possible idea (if you have an Asda nearby)? We have used it before. You order online then drive to a collection point and they bring it to your car or would this be too much exposure for you during your treatment?x


----------



## Siskin

karenmc said:


> It sounds like lots of people are struggling to get delivery slots. Would the click and collect service that Asda have be a possible idea (if you have an Asda nearby)? We have used it before. You order online then drive to a collection point and they bring it to your car or would this be too much exposure for you during your treatment?x


There is click and collect at our Tescos which we would be happy to use, but there's no slots on there either


----------



## mrs phas

Had a text from notability this evening
They're extending the lease on my car for 6 months, due to the virus
Let them make more ventilators I say


----------



## samuelsmiles3

28 people between the ages of 47 and 93 died with the coronavirus today. That's in comparison to 89 yesterday. Very sad, however, better news.


----------



## Sacrechat

Jesthar said:


> Well, to those of you complaining about garden centres still being open, the good news one on my road just shut it's doors.
> 
> The not so good news is it has a big food hall, deli and butchers, so now a lot of us locals who were staying in and shopping local to minimise risk instead have to drive to one of the big supermarkets for food and brave the crowds there.


A large garden centre where I live has closed everything barring the large food hall. They also do a special only for the vulnerable in the morning like supermarkets.


----------



## karenmc

Siskin said:


> There is click and collect at our Tescos which we would be happy to use, but there's no slots on there either


That's a shame, everything is running differently in this current crisis. These are services that you would usually have been able to access easily. I'm sorry for you that it makes things harder when you are going through a lot already with starting your treatment.x


----------



## cheekyscrip

@Jaf how are you doing?


----------



## rona

Sussex Police

We have sufficient police resources, policing continues, and is able to maintain services. We urge you not to call 101 with general coronavirus enquiries but follow government advice. My officers will engage with you if we see you are posing a danger


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> Taking strain OFF the understaffed and overworked NHS


 If he did use NHS, I seriously hope he made a hefty donation.


----------



## purringcats

https://www.clapforourcarers.co.uk​


----------



## Magyarmum

https://covid.joinzoe.com/?fbclid=IwAR3u-MS2MQWosU6DHRREL0BQ4lXtUEOr8sM4ESnyFcGFnBLC76R5T9CoSLw









*Self-report daily.
Help slow the outbreak.
Identify those at risk sooner.*


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> I do find the death of a 21 year old with no [known] health problems quite worrying.


My ex's brother is an ODP. He has said watching perfectly healthy people fighting for their lives is the scariest thing about this disease. He has been retrained to be able to work in different areas because of the virus.

If only the people who think it's still ok to go out could see it, perhaps they'd start taking it seriously.


----------



## MilleD

Interesting possible change to the virus's timeline in the UK if this turns out to be correct.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...ly-as-mid-january/ar-BB11HLf1?ocid=spartanntp


----------



## Elles

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountr...uth-to-enforce-coronavirus-lockdown-measures/

Police spot checks to make sure people are only driving when essential.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Interesting possible change to the virus's timeline in the UK if this turns out to be correct.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...ly-as-mid-january/ar-BB11HLf1?ocid=spartanntp


That's very interesting particularly as Hungary borders onto Austria. Our first known cases were Iranian students returning to Hungary after the Christmas break


----------



## Happy Paws2

I was just looking at how the numbers and how they vary from country to country, our deaths compared to some are high I like to know how Germany are doing better than us
cases deaths 
Italy 74,386 7,503
USA 68,795 1,037
Spain 49,515 3,647
Germany 37,323 206
Iran 27,017 2,077
France 25,233 1,331
Switzerland 10,897 153
UK 9,529 465
South Korea 9,137 126


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> I was just looking at how the numbers and how they vary from country to country, our deaths compared to some are high I like to know how Germany are doing better than us
> cases deaths
> Italy 74,386 7,503
> USA 68,795 1,037
> Spain 49,515 3,647
> Germany 37,323 206
> Iran 27,017 2,077
> France 25,233 1,331
> Switzerland 10,897 153
> UK 9,529 465
> South Korea 9,137 126


I've mentioned this before, the fact that we only test hospitalised cases, will make our death rate look higher.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I was just looking at how the numbers and how they vary from country to country, our deaths compared to some are high I like to know how Germany are doing better than us
> cases deaths
> Italy 74,386 7,503
> USA 68,795 1,037
> Spain 49,515 3,647
> Germany 37,323 206
> Iran 27,017 2,077
> France 25,233 1,331
> Switzerland 10,897 153
> UK 9,529 465
> South Korea 9,137 126


What they are talking about is how come Germany has fewer deaths than some other European countries. Apparently they believe it's due to Germany having started testing for the virus early. Germany has had 206 deaths to date compared to the UK's 465 - more than double!

You might find this interesting .........

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> What they are talking about is how come Germany has fewer deaths than some other European countries. Apparently they believe it's due to Germany having started testing for the virus early. Germany has had 206 deaths to date compared to the UK's 465 - more than double!
> 
> You might find this interesting .........
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
> 
> COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC


England has double the number of people per sq km in comparison to Germany, which could easily be a contributory factor.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> You might find this interesting .........
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
> 
> COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC


Thank you.. I've book marker it, so I can keep an eye on it.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Thank you.. I've book marker it, so I can keep an eye on it.


Beware, it's a huge rabbit hole of information 

Great site though


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Beware, it's a huge rabbit hole of information
> 
> Great site though


I know! What a find! I love websites like this one coz it keeps me happy for hours!


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I know! What a find! I love websites like this one coz it keeps me happy for hours!


I've been looking at it the past few days. You can get so engrossed in it.

And I'm supposed to be working :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I've been looking at it the past few days. You can get so engrossed in it.
> 
> And I'm supposed to be working :Shamefullyembarrased


I've had to pack up "work" for the time being because would you believe it we've got no water:Arghh

No gas or electricity I can cope with but water's an entirely different matter. I've got a washing machine full of half washed clothes and all my cooking plans have gone out of the window.

Just enough water in the kettle to make a cup of coffee and for some reason I didn't pull the plug in the bathroom wash basin so can still wash my hands, albeit in cold not quite clean water. (I do have hand sanitiser in the car)

Ah well .... all part of life's rich tapestry ................ I suppose I'll just have to KBO!


----------



## Magyarmum

Interesting article about hydroxychloroquine which they're hoping can be used to treat the virus.

https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/hus...ogyszert-keszithetnek-magyarorszagon-7931690/

*Twenty million pieces of coronavirus medicine can be made in Hungary*


----------



## kimthecat

Ian went to get petrol . They wouldnt accept cash only cards/

is it wrong to be enjoying the peace and quiet, no planes , helicopters , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives and no litter. Reminds me of the old days before this place became part of London and it was fields .


----------



## purringcats

kimthecat said:


> is it wrong to be enjoying the peace and quiet, no planes , helicopters , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives and no litter.


This lockdown in various parts of the world might help with the climate.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I think these days you're probably more in danger of being infected by Dengue than you are by the Coronavirus, but because it's been around for such a long time no one even mentions it (Having been infected, I can tell you it's not very pleasant)!
> 
> If you remember when we had all the hysteria about Ebola in the UK? In the end how many people actually caught it? Not very many!
> 
> https://reliefweb.int/report/world/who-scales-response-worldwide-surge-dengue
> 
> *WHO scales up response to worldwide surge in dengue*


Do you remember posting this? I've been back to the beginning of the thread, who'd have thought then that we would end up in this position?


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Ian went to get petrol . They wouldnt accept cash only cards/
> 
> is it wrong to be enjoying the peace and quiet, no planes , helicopters , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives and no litter. Reminds me of the old days before this place became part of London and it was fields .


It would be nice if some d!ck near me wasn't running a generator or something for who knows what reason....


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I've had to pack up "work" for the time being because would you believe it we've got no water:Arghh
> 
> No gas or electricity I can cope with but water's an entirely different matter. I've got a washing machine full of half washed clothes and all my cooking plans have gone out of the window.
> 
> Just enough water in the kettle to make a cup of coffee and for some reason I didn't pull the plug in the bathroom wash basin so can still wash my hands, albeit in cold not quite clean water. (I do have hand sanitiser in the car)
> 
> Ah well .... all part of life's rich tapestry ................ I suppose I'll just have to KBO!


Any idea when you will get water again?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Any idea when you will get water again?


It came back on about 5 minutes ago thank heavens

I'm now going to make soup and samosas as I need some comfort food!


----------



## Magyarmum

Love this!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1946256685508316


----------



## purringcats

I have been wondering what would have happened to the homeless in lockdown as hostels shut there doors. Well in my local county (so this is countywide) hotels opened there doors to the homeless giving them a roof over their heads and a couple of meals a day. I found this out in the local newspaper.

I think it is great that hotels have done this, in this time of crisis.


----------



## Jesthar

Looks like there has been some clarification of the exercise rules:

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/you-not-allowed-drive-anywhere-17983298

In summary, you are NOT allowed to drive anywhere to take exercise or walk your dog. All exercise MUST be on foot from your home address.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Looks like there has been some clarification of the exercise rules:
> 
> https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/you-not-allowed-drive-anywhere-17983298
> 
> In summary, you are NOT allowed to drive anywhere to take exercise or walk your dog. All exercise MUST be on foot from your home address.


That's what we had gathered with none essential travel guidelines. 
The exercise clause, couldn't think of a better word seemed to be things you could all do from your own home and keep moving so you could avoid others in some respect.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Losing confidence that there will be anything actually in my Asda delivery on 5th April.

Received notification that some items that were available on my confirmed order now aren’t 

Surely the system works in a way to remove purchased items from those available to others otherwise in the current climate, there will be nothing left on my list at this rate.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> Losing confidence that there will be anything actually in my Asda delivery on 5th April.
> 
> Received notification that some items that were available on my confirmed order now aren't
> 
> Surely the system works in a way to remove purchased items from those available to others otherwise in the current climate, there will be nothing left on my list at this rate.


I don't get it.. How will they know this much in the future? Obviously they know deliveries etc coming in, but I just don't get it why they would think anyone would do online shop for the future if you won't get anything you need per se.

Am sorry its happening at a time when you and your family are really so vulnerable and need this


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been haunting the Tesco’s website in case any slots become available (no chance) and I see that today they’ve put up a new week of slots available, except there are none whether that’s click and collect or home delivery. This is getting ridiculous


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Just been listening to the radio and Sir David Spiegelhalter from the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication is suggesting that there could be fewer than 5,000 deaths in the UK that could be attributed to Convid19. He was talking on the Jeremy Vine show. Disclaimer - I don't usually listen to Vine any more but I was listening to the Ken Bruce show before when he said he was going to have a talk with Spiegelhalter.


----------



## Snoringbear

May or may not be useful, as there's a hold on new members, but I do online shopping here https://www.goodclub.co.uk/ you can ask to be notified once new membership is open, but they seem to be well stocked.

I don't shop in supermarkets anyway, but have found independent shops, farm shops etc where I usually shop well stocked.


----------



## Siskin

Apparently Defra has said that dogs are not to be transported in cars except if attending a vet appt.

KC are trying to get clarification from Defra over the transportation of a puppy to a new home. Currently pet transporters have had their licenses revoked.

This is post from Facebook that I found about this

****************

Latest advice from the Kennel Club released today. They are seeking clarification about collection of puppies, but an animal courier has posted on one of the professional sites that he has consulted with DEFRA and they have said absolutely no pet transportation allowed. I had to drive 15 miles to my vet today for an urgent appointment, but am fully aware I could be stopped.
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/he...um=whats-new&utm_campaign=coronavirusbreeders

******************

I put this on the dog walking thread and it was suggested I put it on here as well.


----------



## Nonnie

Siskin said:


> I've been haunting the Tesco's website in case any slots become available (no chance) and I see that today they've put up a new week of slots available, except there are none whether that's click and collect or home delivery. This is getting ridiculous


I have a theory about this.

A couple of weeks ago, slots that covered 9th to15th April opened up for some, but not everyone (i was able to see and book, my mother wasnt). I believe it was priority access for delivery saver customers as its Easter. I know, as i have deliveries booked for the 15th AND 16th, even though the latter doesnt show up yet except on my pending orders.

This means that week was already booked solid before it was even opened up to everyone.

From next week, slots shuld open at the same time for everyone. If that makes sense. Plus its just a theory.


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> I have a theory about this.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, slots that covered 9th to15th April opened up for some, but not everyone (i was able to see and book, my mother wasnt). I believe it was priority access for delivery saver customers as its Easter. I know, as i have deliveries booked for the 15th AND 16th, even though the latter doesnt show up yet except on my pending orders.
> 
> This means that week was already booked solid before it was even opened up to everyone.
> 
> From next week, slots shuld open at the same time for everyone. If that makes sense. Plus its just a theory.


That is interesting and I was wondering about that. I had a look at the delivery saver info only to find they were not taking any new customers on this. So if they do release the slots to everyone from next week would this mean that the delivery savers would end up not being able to book slots which is a shame for them as they have paid extra to do this. On the other hand maybe people like me might just possibly get a slot. I can't help but think that those most at risk should have priority for deliveries rather then just anyone, but I suppose it's difficult to a) find out those most at risk and b) police it efficiently so that people aren't cheating and claiming to be at risk when they are not.


----------



## catz4m8z

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Just been listening to the radio and Sir David Spiegelhalter from the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication is suggesting that there could be fewer than 5,000 deaths in the UK that could be attributed to Convid19.


I was reading this morning that we might find this manageable for the NHS with all the precautions, which is encouraging. Then again I think it all depends on how good we are at obeying the lockdown. This thing is highly contagious and its going to be the key factor in wether we get through this ok or not.

(oh, and Im not doing online shopping anymore. Im fit enough to get into town and shop so delivery slots shouldnt be wasted on people like me!).


----------



## Nonnie

Siskin said:


> That is interesting and I was wondering about that. I had a look at the delivery saver info only to find they were not taking any new customers on this. So if they do release the slots to everyone from next week would this mean that the delivery savers would end up not being able to book slots which is a shame for them as they have paid extra to do this. On the other hand maybe people like me might just possibly get a slot. I can't help but think that those most at risk should have priority for deliveries rather then just anyone, but I suppose it's difficult to a) find out those most at risk and b) police it efficiently so that people aren't cheating and claiming to be at risk when they are not.


I think we (delivery saver) will still be able to book slots, but just wont have priority access to them.

It will be a first come first served situation. Which worries me tbh. If i cant get a slot, i cant get shopping.


----------



## Jobeth

Nonnie said:


> I have a theory about this.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, slots that covered 9th to15th April opened up for some, but not everyone (i was able to see and book, my mother wasnt). I believe it was priority access for delivery saver customers as its Easter. I know, as i have deliveries booked for the 15th AND 16th, even though the latter doesnt show up yet except on my pending orders.
> 
> This means that week was already booked solid before it was even opened up to everyone.
> 
> From next week, slots shuld open at the same time for everyone. If that makes sense. Plus its just a theory.


I have priority access and booked one for the 17th but they are no longer visible. I was looking for my parents and at midnight the system crashed and within 5 minutes all slots for the next available day (14th) were gone.


----------



## Nonnie

Jobeth said:


> I have priority access and booked one for the 17th but they are no longer visible. I was looking for my parents and at midnight the system crashed and within 5 minutes all slots for the next available day (14th) were gone.


They were already booked solid 2 weeks ago. Up to and including the 16th, which i managed to nab for my mother - good job you can have stuff delivered to a different address. I never saw the 17th as an available date.


----------



## catz4m8z

ok, maybe a dumb question...but Im thinking it!
Online shopping and deliveries are a fairly new thing so what did people do before?:Bored


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> ok, maybe a dumb question...but Im thinking it!
> Online shopping and deliveries are a fairly new thing so what did people do before?:Bored


Same thing we do here out in the boonies, drive to the store. No deliveries here. Nothing fresh at least. I can get some things from Amazon, but most of my food shopping I have to drive somewhere.

I've offered to do the food shopping for a couple of people I know are vulnerable as have many of us who are not considered vulnerable.


----------



## Nonnie

catz4m8z said:


> ok, maybe a dumb question...but Im thinking it!
> Online shopping and deliveries are a fairly new thing so what did people do before?:Bored


I was talking about this with my mother earlier.

I live in the village i was born in. Until i moved one village over when i was 16, we had a village store, a butcher, 3 petrol stations (all selling various goods/food), 2 farm shops, a handymans, a sweetshop and a post office. We also had a fruit and veg man that used to drive around weekly, and a fish man. Eveyrone used to use a milkman too.

We now have just one very small, very expensive village shop, and a pizza van once a week.


----------



## Cully

@catz4m8z , Well we used to go to all the shops, where you could see and talk to real people, on the High Street that now no longer exist because so many people prefer to shop online with faceless companies that are only interested in profit.


----------



## DogLover1981

WTF? A politician that's willing to die to save the economy. He's volunteering the elderly for an awful death too. O.O I've heard of people barely able to make it to a hospitable because they pass out from being unable to breathe. That's not a pleasant death. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corona...ker-carlson-willing-to-die-to-revive-economy/


----------



## Magyarmum

Just received this in my inbox.

https://xpatloop.com/channels/2020/3/video-empty-streets-of-budapest-during-coronavirus.html

*Video: Budapest Becomes 'Ghost Town' Due To Coronavirus*


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> I was talking about this with my mother earlier.
> 
> I live in the village i was born in. Until i moved one village over when i was 16, we had a village store, a butcher, 3 petrol stations (all selling various goods/food), 2 farm shops, a handymans, a sweetshop and a post office. We also had a fruit and veg man that used to drive around weekly, and a fish man. Eveyrone used to use a milkman too.
> 
> We now have just one very small, very expensive village shop, and a pizza van once a week.


We're the same. The isolated village I live in had a whole load of shops plus two bakeries that delivered, local milk supplies and several pubs. There was a regular bus service to various towns and a train service to Cheltenham and Gloucester, but that went in the Beeching cuts. Now we have one pub and a small expensive farm shop.
We've always driven to the supermarket as we like to pick and choose fruit and veg and guarantee what we want is what we get rather then being substituted for something weird.


----------



## Jobeth

Nonnie said:


> They were already booked solid 2 weeks ago. Up to and including the 16th, which i managed to nab for my mother - good job you can have stuff delivered to a different address. I never saw the 17th as an available date.


I offered to do a shop for my parents but they said they'd rather walk to the shops. It's only because of the lock down that they've even considered it. I'm not sure how I got the 17th but I doubt I'll get my usual Friday slot after that.


----------



## Jesthar

Just seen this - brillaintly done, clean lyric and perfectly on point!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157717400466321


Coronavirus Rhapsody


----------



## catz4m8z

Jobeth said:


> I offered to do a shop for my parents but they said they'd rather walk to the shops.


Glad my parents have a thriving farm shop in their village only about a 2min walk from their house so they should be ok for fresh food. They can send my brother out for any more supplies!LOL


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> Just seen this - brillaintly done, clean lyric and perfectly on point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157717400466321
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Rhapsody


That was absolutely fantastic and brilliant. Thank you


----------



## rona

Jesthar said:


> Just seen this - brillaintly done, clean lyric and perfectly on point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157717400466321
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Rhapsody


Brilliant


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> Just seen this - brillaintly done, clean lyric and perfectly on point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157717400466321
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Rhapsody


VERY VERY CLEVER!


----------



## Jaf

cheekyscrip said:


> @Jaf how are you doing?


@cheekyscrip how are you coping? It's scary times but I'm fine thanks lovely. There's 1 family in my nearest town and 1 in the next town over. Suppose there's more we don't know about.

Braved the Mercadona yesterday, more staff than customers though had to wait at the car park to get in. They had everything except eggs and abrasive cleaning cloths. Was very, very strange seeing the town so deserted!

I have had my hospital specialist appointment for April changed to Monday and it's now a telephone consultation. I can't get blood tests done and I don't know what will happen as I need a different medication to be prescribed but it'll involve daily blood tests.


----------



## Cully

If it's a pinprick blood test you might be able to do it yourself at home. But if it's a syringe full they want........?
Hope you can get something sorted.


----------



## niamh123

Luckily I have found a milkman that delivers to the door so I don't have to worry about getting milk,bread etc I have to say the milk tastes lovely out of the glass bottles it reminds me of the milk I had growing up 40+ years ago
Our local post office's are closed today I don't know how people are managing who have their benefits paid with a Post Office Card


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> If it's a pinprick blood test you might be able to do it yourself at home. But if it's a syringe full they want........?
> Hope you can get something sorted.


Thanks. It's a syringe full unfortunately. I think it will just have to wait a few months, but I'll be fine.


----------



## kimthecat

has this been posted here?

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable


----------



## Happy Paws2

ITV 2....are showing Contagion tonight, anyone brave enough to watch it.


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> Thanks. It's a syringe full unfortunately. I think it will just have to wait a few months, but I'll be fine.


Do you want me to send Misty over? She's VERY good at drawing blood!


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Happy Paws2 said:


> ITV 2....are showing Contagion tonight, anyone brave enough to watch it.


I suspect that may get cancelled that and they'll show something less controversial !


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bertie'sMum said:


> I suspect that may get cancelled that and they'll show something less controversial !


To be honest I think it's in very bad taste.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> ITV 2....are showing Contagion tonight, anyone brave enough to watch it.


What's the betting it wont be shown?


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Happy Paws2 said:


> To be honest I think it's in very bad taste.


I agree, but you have to remember that television schedules are prepared months in advance and the TV listings would have been sent to the printers weeks ago (all the sporting fixtures are still showing in this week's TV guides although substitute programmes are being shown as they've all been cancelled).


----------



## MilleD

DogLover1981 said:


> WTF? A politician that's willing to die to save the economy. He's volunteering the elderly for an awful death too. O.O I've heard of people barely able to make it to a hospitable because they pass out from being unable to breathe. That's not a pleasant death.
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corona...ker-carlson-willing-to-die-to-revive-economy/


He's not quite 'volunteering' others if you read what he said.


----------



## Cully

I've just used my remote to check the tv guide and it's still listed.


----------



## lullabydream

Bertie'sMum said:


> I suspect that may get cancelled that and they'll show something less controversial !


Pandemic is being watched by a lot on Netflix.. That's a 'documentary' on if there was to be a type of 'flu' that hits the world. How the world is preparing so to speak.


----------



## mrs phas

Families who are self-isolating and are on electric / gas meters or smart meters, can call the following provider numbers and organise to be sent 2 weeks credit for their meter:
British Gas – 0333 202 9802
EDF – 0333 200 5100
EON – 0345 052 000
N Power – 0800 073 3000
Scottish Power – 0800 027 0072
SSE – 0345 0262 658


edit to add:
please have pen and paper to hand, as they may give you another number, or, a web site to go to


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> ITV 2....are showing Contagion tonight, anyone brave enough to watch it.


No ! :Hilarious Have you had a letter from the Gov yet? I dont know if I will get one or not.


----------



## mrs phas

Deliberately coughing or spitting on key workers made criminal offense

BBC News - Coronavirus cough attacks a crime, says prosecution chief
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52052880


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> Do you want me to send Misty over? She's VERY good at drawing blood!


How lovely but she'd be mine for ever! Muh ha ha!


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> How lovely but she'd be mine for ever! Muh ha ha!


She swears too:Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> Have you had a letter from the Gov yet? I dont know if I will get one or not.


No, I don't think I'll be getting one.


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> ITV 2....are showing Contagion tonight, anyone brave enough to watch it.


Thanks. Will record it as it's quite long (adverts?) and in two halves


----------



## urbantigers

My neighbour is going into others' flats and talking to them from less than 2m distance (as in standing right next to them). All the people she is talking to have been out elsewhere (not suggesting this is not permitted going out - just pointing out that the people she is talking to have potentially been in contact with other people) and she has told me that she has had to go out today (for something on the permitted list). In the short term she is risking everyone, and longer term she is risking those of us staying home having to do it for longer because others don't do what they're told. Not sure whether she genuinely doesn't understand what "own household" means or whether she's just deliberately flouting the rules.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> No, I don't think I'll be getting one.


Im not sure if Im getting one either. Doesnt look like it.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Im not sure if Im getting one either. Doesnt look like it.


I've not had one either, nor my husband who is 72


----------



## mrs phas

i had a text, not a letter


----------



## Jesthar

urbantigers said:


> My neighbour is going into others' flats and talking to them from less than 2m distance (as in standing right next to them). All the people she is talking to have been out elsewhere (not suggesting this is not permitted going out - just pointing out that the people she is talking to have potentially been in contact with other people) and she has told me that she has had to go out today (for something on the permitted list). In the short term she is risking everyone, and longer term she is risking those of us staying home having to do it for longer because others don't do what they're told. Not sure whether she genuinely doesn't understand what "own household" means or whether she's just deliberately flouting the rules.


I'd be telling the others not to let her in on the grounds she's not following the mandatory precautions. If people start slamming the door in her face, she'll have to get the message...


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> i had a text, not a letter


OHs friend had the text no letter yet. He's got a heart problem.

He's already going stir crazy with not going out, shielding from his OH.

A neighbour has brought some essentials though


----------



## lullabydream

Just joined in the clapping for the NHS. 

There was more than I thought came to the doors and windows to clap and cheer.. I was actually quite touched by the residents at the sheltered accommodation in the windows clapping and a couple at the door clapping too. 

It was a lovely atmosphere even just for the moment.


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Just joined in the clapping for the NHS.
> 
> There was more than I thought came to the doors and windows to clap and cheer.. I was actually quite touched by the residents at the sheltered accommodation in the windows clapping and a couple at the door clapping too.
> 
> It was a lovely atmosphere even just for the moment.


There was more here then I thought there would be too as its a very spread out village not a compact round the village green type. The road through the village is about two miles long with houses here and there along it with fields Inbetween, yet there was clapping drifting along on the breeze.


----------



## karenmc

We joined in too @lullabydream and @Siskin (even Luna watched from the chair near the window!!). It was a really lovely way to support our fantastic NHS workers. We all clapped, cheered, whistled and shouted our support. At the end everyone was calling out well done to each other for coming out in support as we wished each other goodnight. I felt quite emotional.x


----------



## lullabydream

This video is from 2 years ago. For some reason it was in my local news clip talking about clapping for the NHS. As today is quite a poignant day for saying Thank you to the NHS I thought it was worth putting here, to remind everyone why the NHS is so important to all. Of course currently they are vital and in the forefront of everyone's mind, but they daily do so much for everyone.


----------



## mrs phas

never having seen the film contagion before ( itv2 9pm)
im finding it a little close to the truth right now
poor timing and taste, imho
I know they schedule weeks ahead, but surely, they had another film they couldve slotted in the same time frame, even if it was a repeat


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> View attachment 434583


Yes i saw a bit on the news. Absurd.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> never having seen the film contagion before ( itv2 9pm)
> im finding it a little close to the truth right now
> poor timing and taste, imho
> I know they schedule weeks ahead, but surely, they had another film they couldve slotted in the same time frame, even if it was a repeat


How about Outbreak with Dustin Hoffman.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> How about Outbreak with Dustin Hoffman.


ive seen that one, several times
darned monkey


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> ive seen that one, several times
> darned monkey


:Hilarious

Who is the weird man doing the official Gov advert about Coronavirus. He scares me !

ETA Its Prof Chris Whitty.


----------



## Siskin

I have been just reading a local police report issued this evening. Apparently our local,police have been touring well known beauty spots in the area to see if people are still insisting on visiting. At Broadway Tower there were 17 people there for a 'day out' coming from a far afield as Birmingham, Coventry and Leamington Spa. They were all sent away with flea in their ear and were warned about fines if they were caught again acting so stupidly, their names and addresses were taken and reported in. Hopefully they might think twice before doing it again


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

That baldy guy


kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> Who is the weird man doing the official Gov advert about Coronavirus. He scares me !
> 
> ETA Its Prof Chris Whitty.


----------



## kimthecat

MissMiloKitty said:


> That baldy guy


Yeah, he doesnt seem to blink or move his forehead.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Yeah, he doesnt seem to blink or move his forehead.


Hahaha ha...

I actually didn't think he would be your type @kimthecat


----------



## Jaf

A small town near me in Spain has brought out a local law that people are not allowed to shop daily. All shops must register their customer’s names and the police are checking. I understand the reasoning but lots of the local people have shopped daily for all their lives so it will be difficult for them.


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> never having seen the film contagion before ( itv2 9pm)
> im finding it a little close to the truth right now
> poor timing and taste, imho
> I know they schedule weeks ahead, but surely, they had another film they couldve slotted in the same time frame, even if it was a repeat


I can't help wondering if it's been put on deliberately as a warning to those who might not be taking Covid 19 as seriously as they should.


----------



## rona

Fancy helping wildlife while you are at home £1
https://meadowinmygarden.co.uk/collections/flower-meadow-seeds/products/passion-30m1


----------



## Dave S

rona said:


> Fancy helping wildlife while you are at home £1
> https://meadowinmygarden.co.uk/collections/flower-meadow-seeds/products/passion-30m1


Funny enough the other day I spread 3 packs of wild flower seeds and poppies in a large bare area behind my shed to bring in some wildlife. Cost me a lot more than that though but hopefully the results should be worth it.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sacremist said:


> I can't help wondering if it's been put on deliberately as a warning to those who might not be taking Covid 19 as seriously as they should.


Indeed - and there are other channels so nobody HAD to watch.


----------



## Cleo38

Sacremist said:


> View attachment 434583


Whilst I understand driving long distances to go somewhere for a day out is not a good idea I don't understand the 'no driving' rule (or is this just a recommendation?) If I walked my dogs from my house on one route then it would take us though the back of 3 gardens along the river bank (ROW) & am sure the people that live there would rather not have walkers going through. I would also have to go over a stile which others had touched which again I would rather not. Instead I drive (less than 5 mins) further up the river then we have out walk & there is no one around.

Surely the police have got better things to do with their time then telling off people who are out in the countryside when there are so many groups still congregating in towns or busy parks …


----------



## lullabydream

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst I understand driving long distances to go somewhere for a day out is not a good idea I don't understand the 'no driving' rule (or is this just a recommendation?) If I walked my dogs from my house on one route then it would take us though the back of 3 gardens along the river bank (ROW) & am sure the people that live there would rather not have walkers going through. I would also have to go over a stile which others had touched which again I would rather not. Instead I drive (less than 5 mins) further up the river then we have out walk & there is no one around.
> 
> Surely the police have got better things to do with their time then telling off people who are out in the countryside when there are so many groups still congregating in towns or busy parks …


I kind of take it that in isolated areas, path ways aren't great so more chance of an accident to yourself even if you have walked there everyday for years.

Everyone is under stress, so even though car driving is somewhat automatic to most people, you probably will not see another a car per se, a new announcement say on a person's radio in the car could maybe mean they loose concentration. I just think the government are erring on caution and in honestly I think its working. We have terrible roads for accidents here and usually there are the usually prime spots at rush hour plus occasional random roads where RTAs have occurred. Whether our local news isn't reporting them, or there just isn't that many because people are taking heed of the no essential car travel I don't know.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.wiltshire999s.co.uk/you...IWjldRqu1Gr0KPiVwLZmrl76CxNXMRMj0fW7LZ8u7QznM

*You are not allowed to drive to a location for exercise, police warn*
*Since this story was published, Wiltshire Police has issued a similar leaflet echoing Avon and Somerset Police*


----------



## Elles

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst I understand driving long distances to go somewhere for a day out is not a good idea I don't understand the 'no driving' rule (or is this just a recommendation?) If I walked my dogs from my house on one route then it would take us though the back of 3 gardens along the river bank (ROW) & am sure the people that live there would rather not have walkers going through. I would also have to go over a stile which others had touched which again I would rather not. Instead I drive (less than 5 mins) further up the river then we have out walk & there is no one around.
> 
> Surely the police have got better things to do with their time then telling off people who are out in the countryside when there are so many groups still congregating in towns or busy parks …


You might break down and need recovery services. You might be involved in an accident and need emergency services. It's another car on the road without good reason. Every car is a potential hazard. You will need fuel. The police will need to speak to you to find out why you're out, putting you and them at further risk. It's not advisory, it's now the rules. We are not allowed to drive to take the dog for a walk. The police are putting up road blocks and sending people home. They will start fining them soon they said.

In Spain they are not allowed out at all. In some areas you are only allowed to shop at the nearest shop, not every day and you have to register with it. Their lockdown is far worse than ours. Let's not mess it up. The police shouldn't need to be out stopping cars to ask where people are going and unfortunately 'walking the dog' isn't currently one of reasons we are allowed to drive.


----------



## MilleD

karenmc said:


> We joined in too @lullabydream and @Siskin (even Luna watched from the chair near the window!!). It was a really lovely way to support our fantastic NHS workers. We all clapped, cheered, whistled and shouted our support. At the end everyone was calling out well done to each other for coming out in support as we wished each other goodnight. I felt quite emotional.x


I did too. I was convinced not many people would do it near me, but I could hear loads of people.

It was rather lovely. We also did the virtual pub quiz that Jay Flynn hosted last night. It was excellent. Over half a million people did it!!!


----------



## cheekyscrip

Elles said:


> You might break down and need recovery services. You might be involved in an accident and need emergency services. It's another car on the road without good reason. Every car is a potential hazard. You will need fuel. The police will need to speak to you to find out why you're out, putting you and them at further risk. It's not advisory, it's now the rules. We are not allowed to drive to take the dog for a walk. The police are putting up road blocks and sending people home. They will start fining them soon they said.
> 
> In Spain they are not allowed out at all. In some areas you are only allowed to shop at the nearest shop, not every day and you have to register with it. Their lockdown is far worse than ours. Let's not mess it up. The police shouldn't need to be out stopping cars to ask where people are going and unfortunately 'walking the dog' isn't currently one of reasons we are allowed to drive.


No one so far stops us here from driving to walk the dog.

There is no way of stopping the virus but to slow down. Slow it too much and the moment you lift some restrictions it will flare up really badly.

That is what experts say.

Spain - there was always some strong sentiment for totalitarian government and they are used to it.

Situation there is dramatic, not enough tests or hospital beds etc... so slowing it down as much as possible makes sense.
Gibraltar forced to adapt similar measures but we can go out for fresh air as long as we keep distance and only go in company of those we live with.


----------



## rona

NFU and DEFRA are in consultation over closing footpaths......................We'll all be herded into the same areas for our exercise 
I'm finding it difficult to avoid people now even early morning, I walk from home and stick within about 2-3 miles of home usually


----------



## Cleo38

rona said:


> NFU and DEFRA are in consultation over closing footpaths......................We'll all be herded into the same areas for our exercise
> I'm finding it difficult to avoid people now even early morning, I walk from home and stick within about 2-3 miles of home usually


Exactly! People on the village FB group were discussing the 'no driving' & it means they would be forced in to ore close contact. In the village there is only one narrow pavement in places which means people would have to pass each other & no way could they observe the distancing rule. If those that can drive 5 mins (or less in a lot of cases) they can get to fields where they can have an isolated walk.

As I said one walk I do takes me through the bottom of people's gardens which I would rather not do & am sure they feel the same. I'm particularly conscious of not being near anyone atm due to my mum being so ill so am going to carry on being sensible & avoiding everyone.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://likebalaton.hu/telepules/ba...edium=showrss&utm_campaign=likebalaton_ajanlo
*
The government has imposed a curfew restriction on Saturday, Viktor Orban announced Friday morning. The prime minister also said that the peak of the epidemic is expected to be ten times higher than at present. On Monday, the hospital commanders arrive at the health facilities.*


----------



## Elles

cheekyscrip said:


> No one so far stops us here from driving to walk the dog.
> 
> There is no way of stopping the virus but to slow down. Slow it too much and the moment you lift some restrictions it will flare up really badly.
> 
> That is what experts say.
> 
> Spain - there was always some strong sentiment for totalitarian government and they are used to it.
> 
> Situation there is dramatic, not enough tests or hospital beds etc... so slowing it down as much as possible makes sense.
> Gibraltar forced to adapt similar measures but we can go out for fresh air as long as we keep distance and only go in company of those we live with.


Gibraltar is tiny. It's a completely different thing. You can't exactly drive to a remote area of Gibraltar, more than a mile or so you're driving into the sea lol.

It's not just a case of 'slowing the virus' it's keeping people out of needing hospital beds that don't exist. Not just for the virus. People still suffer strokes and heart attacks and other catastrophic ailments.

We are trying to cope with the outbreak while more tests and a vaccine are worked on and not putting the nhs under more pressure than it already is. On my Facebook are videos of pregnant women and children as young as 12 terrified and struggling to breathe in hospital. A 29 year old nurse died of it. We need to halt the spread, not slow it down. There's enough already. In London they say the hospitals will be able to take no more patients by tomorrow. They're converting places as temporary sites.

At the moment it sounds as though Gib is being lucky, though people are dying there too from this terrible plague. 

I think if they close off footpaths, it's so that emergency services can get to us and they can see we're complying with the law. Every accident we have is another risk for them, they can't observe us on footpaths and people are being stupid about it.  How the hell do the government say it's "ok to drive if you personally think it's best"? They did, they gave us freedom and told us to take responsibility and be sensible about it. People went to the beach, had parties and barbecues and picnics in the park. This is the result. Now no one can go anywhere. unch


----------



## Elles

Tbh if you can only walk on a narrow path where people can’t pass each other without touching and it’s so long no one can turn back, or wait where it’s wider, I don’t think you should go out at all. I couldn’t walk my dog on a path like that anyway, she’d go mental if she had to pass strange dogs that closely.


----------



## raj1990

kimthecat said:


> It seems this is spreading. I'm a bit worried as I'm immunocompromised due to the meds I take. I shall have to start wearing a mask


yes right we are in los angles and crazy over here


----------



## cheekyscrip

Elles said:


> Gibraltar is tiny. It's a completely different thing. You can't exactly drive to a remote area of Gibraltar, more than a mile or so you're driving into the sea lol.
> 
> It's not just a case of 'slowing the virus' it's keeping people out of needing hospital beds that don't exist. Not just for the virus. People still suffer strokes and heart attacks and other catastrophic ailments.
> 
> We are trying to cope with the outbreak while more tests and a vaccine are worked on and not putting the nhs under more pressure than it already is. On my Facebook are videos of pregnant women and children as young as 12 terrified and struggling to breathe in hospital. A 29 year old nurse died of it. We need to halt the spread, not slow it down. There's enough already. In London they say the hospitals will be able to take no more patients by tomorrow. They're converting places as temporary sites.
> 
> At the moment it sounds as though Gib is being lucky, though people are dying there too from this terrible plague.
> 
> I think if they close off footpaths, it's so that emergency services can get to us and they can see we're complying with the law. Every accident we have is another risk for them, they can't observe us on footpaths and people are being stupid about it.  How the hell do the government say it's "ok to drive if you personally think it's best"? They did, they gave us freedom and told us to take responsibility and be sensible about it. People went to the beach, had parties and barbecues and picnics in the park. This is the result. Now no one can go anywhere. unch


Sadly I agree with you.

There are some medicines that seem to be working but they need to be stocked up, ventilators etc...
So gaining time is crucial.
Yes, Gibraltar is a bit different. Not sure if lucky as we don't produce any medication and all supplies come from Spain who already said they will honour the contracts already signed but no more...

Morocco closed frontier and no deliveries from there.

On funny side when Johnson gave his speech it sounded familiar...
Very much copy of Picardo's speech...

He was asked if his speech was sent to UK and he confirmed.

Must say Picardo said it better!!!


----------



## Elles

I think it’s a shame that people who live in lovely, rural areas and even have gardens and nice neighbours are complaining that they want to drive. Some people have little dogs in flats in cities. They’d have far more reason to want to drive somewhere nice to stay away from people and walk their dog.


----------



## purringcats

Government has sent a letter to all local authorities to rehouse all rough sleepers by the weekend. Crisis has applauded this.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Elles said:


> I think it's a shame that people who live in lovely, rural areas and even have gardens and nice neighbours are complaining that they want to drive. Some people have little dogs in flats in cities. They'd have far more reason to want to drive somewhere nice to stay away from people and walk their dog.


Yes, that is the reason we can drive in Gibraltar or walk, we nearly all live in flats, small and no garden.
Else people will go mad or very unfit.

I wish I had a garden...even balcony.


----------



## purringcats

Hotels have come forward saying they will help local authorities to house rough sleepers so they have a roof over their heads.


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> Hahaha ha...
> 
> I actually didn't think he would be your type @kimthecat


:Hilarious


----------



## Cleo38

Elles said:


> Tbh if you can only walk on a narrow path where people can't pass each other without touching and it's so long no one can turn back, or wait where it's wider, I don't think you should go out at all. I couldn't walk my dog on a path like that anyway, she'd go mental if she had to pass strange dogs that closely.


Maybe .... but for some people getting out with their dog is all that's keeping them going. IMO it's about common sense. I drive 5 mins so I avoid the usual ROW route, for me that's acceptable. If I am told by police that it's not then I will stop.


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst I understand driving long distances to go somewhere for a day out is not a good idea I don't understand the 'no driving' rule (or is this just a recommendation?) If I walked my dogs from my house on one route then it would take us though the back of 3 gardens along the river bank (ROW) & am sure the people that live there would rather not have walkers going through. I would also have to go over a stile which others had touched which again I would rather not. Instead I drive (less than 5 mins) further up the river then we have out walk & there is no one around.
> 
> Surely the police have got better things to do with their time then telling off people who are out in the countryside when there are so many groups still congregating in towns or busy parks …


That is exactly what they are being told to do, though!


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## Elles

I have to drive. I rent a small property for my animals, just rented it a couple of months ago. The farmer who owns it is elderly, had a hip operation and doesn't live there, so he can't look after them. I drive up daily to feed the animals, including my friend's pony who lives there and the geese, and tbh I hate it.

It's uncanny driving on empty roads and being stopped at police road blocks. The policeman who wants me to wind my window down and talk to him might be infected. I might be infected and give it to him.

There are no more naughty folk driving to the woods and everywhere is quiet. I can normally hear some traffic from my window at home, now it's mostly only sirens and the odd van I can hear going past, other than when people are driving to work. I drive past people's driveways, usually empty, now with their cars parked there. It really is like something out of a movie. I feel similar to how I felt in Portugal waiting to fly home the day after the 9/11 terror attacks. 



Cleo38 said:


> Maybe .... but for some people getting out with their dog is all that's keeping them going. IMO it's about common sense. I drive 5 mins so I avoid the usual ROW route, for me that's acceptable. If I am told by police that it's not then I will stop.


It was about common sense, but too many people ignored what we were being told to do, just as you are now they've said no driving to walk the dog. That's why the police are putting up roadblocks, the government are sending out texts and notices and we have lockdown. Yesterday I was stopped at a roadblock. As I just said, that puts me and the officers at risk. If you aren't sure, phone to ask. Maybe they'll make an exception in your area. I don't think you should just carry on until someone who has no choice but to do their job, has to take time out to tell you personally.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe .... but for some people getting out with their dog is all that's keeping them going. IMO it's about common sense. I drive 5 mins so I avoid the usual ROW route, for me that's acceptable. If I am told by police that it's not then I will stop.


The police ARE telling people it's not acceptable.


----------



## Sacrechat

Elles said:


> I have to drive. I rent a small property for my animals, just rented it a couple of months ago. The farmer who owns it is elderly, had a hip operation and doesn't live there, so he can't look after them. I drive up daily to feed the animals, including my friend's pony who lives there and the geese, and tbh I hate it.
> 
> It's uncanny driving on empty roads and being stopped at police road blocks. The policeman who wants me to wind my window down and talk to him might be infected. I might be infected and give it to him.
> 
> There are no more naughty folk driving to the woods and everywhere is quiet. I can normally hear some traffic from my window at home, now it's mostly only sirens and the odd van I can hear going past, other than when people are driving to work. I drive past people's driveways, usually empty, now with their cars parked there. It really is like something out of a movie. I feel similar to how I felt in Portugal waiting to fly home the day after the 9/11 terror attacks.
> 
> It was about common sense, but too many people ignored what we were being told to do, just as you are now they've said no driving to walk the dog. That's why the police are putting up roadblocks, the government are sending out texts and notices and we have lockdown. Yesterday I was stopped at a roadblock. As I just said, that puts me and the officers at risk. If you aren't sure, phone to ask. Maybe they'll make an exception in your area. I don't think you should just carry on until someone who has no choice but to do their job, has to take time out to tell you personally.


It's on the news; it's in the newspapers, but still people don't want to listen or do as they're told! Hasn't this been the problem since all this started? When they receive a fine for non essential travel, maybe they will then sit up and take notice.


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> The police ARE telling people it's not acceptable.


Not round here they're not.


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> Not round here they're not.


They will if you keep doing what you're doing.


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe .... but for some people getting out with their dog is all that's keeping them going. IMO it's about common sense. I drive 5 mins so I avoid the usual ROW route, for me that's acceptable. If I am told by police that it's not then I will stop.


Same here. I cant walk far , I can just about manage the few minutes my nearest park but joggers and cyclists pass me on the way in the street and at the gate . Or I can drive and be safe in my car for 5 or ten minutes to somewhere isolated and not meet anyone.


----------



## kimthecat

I dont think we have road blocks here. I want to visit the local cemetery before , my family are there . Its not necessary but its always quiet there and I can walk around with the dogs . Im sure there's a joke in there somewhere but perhaps not appropriate to make one !


----------



## Cleo38

kimthecat said:


> Same here. I cant walk far , I can just about manage the few minutes my nearest park but joggers and cyclists pass me on the way in the street and at the gate . Or I can drive and be safe in my car for 5 or ten minutes to somewhere isolated and not meet anyone.


Which is far more worrying. I cannot be near anyone atm as my mum is seriously ill & I am the only person who can see her because I haven't been in contact with anyone for weeks.

Alot of people in the village are choosing to drive to a nearby location to exercise their dogs so those who don't have that option can walk in the village which IMO is sensible. Am sure the police must be aware as you can see the odd car at the edge of fields or a wood, etc


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> Which is far more worrying. I cannot be near anyone atm as my mum is seriously ill & I am the only person who can see her because I haven't been in contact with anyone for weeks.
> 
> A lot of people in the village are choosing to drive to a nearby location to exercise their dogs so those who don't have that option can walk in the village which IMO is sensible. Am sure the police must be aware as you can see the odd car at the edge of fields or a wood, etc


I hope you and your mum will be ok . 
I am vulnerable and have registered . Im on pred and an immunosuppressant . OH is going to one shop only , our local corner shop. But having trouble with delivery , have registered with Gov but had to put I have help. Unfortunately , OH not good in stores especially if its crowded , he has pots and passes out if stressed . Sister is putting some things on her weekly delivery for me but its limited to two of each item . She and her husband are vulnerable to and totally isolating except for walks and yes , they're using the cat to get out to safe place. !

have enough food for a week and dogs have two months so trying not to fret.


----------



## kimthecat

raj1990 said:


> yes right we are in los angles and crazy over here


is it on total lockdown or are you allowed outside at all?


----------



## rona

https://www.sciencealert.com/corona...-why-wildlife-markets-need-better-regulations

"A search for the 'missing link' in the chain of the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 has uncovered two close cousins of the new coronavirus in shipments of pangolins being smuggled into China.

It's important to note that the discovery by researchers from across Hong Kong and China falls well short of identifying these precious mammals as the source of the current pandemic. However, the similarity of the strains does suggest the nation's pangolin market is a time bomb that needs to be defused".


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> I dont think we have road blocks here. I want to visit the local cemetery before , my family are there . Its not necessary but its always quiet there and I can walk around with the dogs . Im sure there's a joke in there somewhere but perhaps not appropriate to make one !


It only started here yesterday.


----------



## catz4m8z

Im confused...why are some people thinking the rules dont need to apply to them??
Are they somehow special? coz Im pretty sure I could make a case for specialness myself if I think hard enough!
As it is Im only walking 2 dogs a day and playing pavement hopscotch to avoid the other people out for their daily exercise. Would be lovely if I could drive to a deserted area but Im in the middle of a town and dont drive so Im stuck. Even if I could drive Id still be doing this though....if we all decide we can be an exception to the rules then a lockdown will never work.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst I understand driving long distances to go somewhere for a day out is not a good idea I don't understand the 'no driving' rule (or is this just a recommendation?) If I walked my dogs from my house on one route then it would take us though the back of 3 gardens along the river bank (ROW) & am sure the people that live there would rather not have walkers going through. I would also have to go over a stile which others had touched which again I would rather not. Instead I drive (less than 5 mins) further up the river then we have out walk & there is no one around.
> 
> Surely the police have got better things to do with their time then telling off people who are out in the countryside when there are so many groups still congregating in towns or busy parks …


Obviously I don't know either way, but I would think the no driving rule is to limit the spread of the virus. You can get a lot further driving than walking, so operating on the assumption that everyone is infected and can transmit the virus, keeping people from driving limits the travel distance of the virus.

With that in mind, a 5 minute drive that avoids more people than the walk would seems totally reasonable, and I would hope a police officer would understand that if it was explained to them.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> and I would hope a police officer would understand that if it was explained to them.


or they might just be royally p***ed off that when they are short staffed through sickness and really stretched they are having to take time they dont have to tell people to do what they have already been told to do countless times before by the government!


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> It only started here yesterday.


 I know you are attending to your horses , Are you allowed to ride out?


----------



## Beth78

Just scanned through the latest messages, sorry to ask a stupid question.
But is it now illegal/wrong to drive to the woods to walk my dog ?

She's reactive and road walks are very difficult .


----------



## lullabydream

Beth78 said:


> Just scanned through the latest messages, sorry to ask a stupid question.
> But is it now illegal/wrong to drive to the woods to walk my dog ?
> 
> She's reactive and road walks are very difficult .


Yes.. It's classed as none essential driving


----------



## Sacrechat

Beth78 said:


> Just scanned through the latest messages, sorry to ask a stupid question.
> But is it now illegal/wrong to drive to the woods to walk my dog ?
> 
> She's reactive and road walks are very difficult .


It's on the news; it's in the newspapers. They repeated it over and over again yesterday. It is not acceptable to drive to another location to walk your dog.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Obviously I don't know either way, but I would think the no driving rule is to limit the spread of the virus. You can get a lot further driving than walking, so operating on the assumption that everyone is infected and can transmit the virus, keeping people from driving limits the travel distance of the virus.
> 
> With that in mind, a 5 minute drive that avoids more people than the walk would seems totally reasonable, and I would hope a police officer would understand that if it was explained to them.


No, it's not. They send you home, take your details and say if you do it again, from today, it's fines and for persistent offenders, arrest. Driving a car puts a vehicle on the road (potential accident) and in fuelling garages (potential infection), that health workers have no choice but to access. It also puts police at risk when they stop you to ensure you have a legitimate reason for driving.

There are exceptions, daily driving the dog for a walk isn't one of them here in the U.K. if they get enough people driving to take the dog for a walk, I have no doubt that they will introduce even more draconian rules and we will end up having to register and have paperwork to prove why we're driving. We are not allowed to even put our dog in the car, other than to visit the vet, under the vet's instruction. So if they see us with a dog in the car, we will be stopped. I already said, I was at a road block yesterday and people with dogs were sent home. This is on the edge of Exeter.

We were offered the sensible, common sense thing and people weren't sensible, so now new laws are being pushed through to control us practically daily. It's terrifying where it could lead to.


----------



## O2.0

There are times that I regret living out in the boonies, now is not one of them....


----------



## Sacrechat

@Elles is correct; I forgot about that! You can only put your dog in a car if you are making an essential visit to the vet, otherwise, if you are seen, you will be stopped. The initial fine is £60 for a first offence, but with repeated offences I believe the fine keeps doubling or something like that. It's mostly for parents who are not keeping their children at home, but will be applied in other circumstances too, if not now, then eventually. If people continue to think they can do whatever they like and break the rules, they will eventually learn a tough lesson that these rules apply to all of us.


----------



## Beth78

Darn it !
6:00 pavement walk it is then, need to avoid other dogs and hopefully cats too.


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> I know you are attending to your horses , Are you allowed to ride out?


Technically yes I think. They have to exercise the racehorses, so we aren't banned, or weren't last time I looked. 

The advice from bodies like the BHS etc was to exercise the horses in hand and not ride, but if we have to, to do a gentle hack in easily accessible areas, or the manège. But tbh, I stopped riding straight away. I'd never forgive myself if I did have an accident and had to explain to overworked nhs staff that I was out riding my horse in the sunshine, while they combat a plague. So I haven't kept up to date on that one.

Last time I did look there was talk of yard/farm owners taking over the care of all of the animals on their property, and large yards saying they couldn't do it, but I don't think it was brought in.


----------



## Sacrechat

Beth78 said:


> Darn it !
> 6:00 pavement walk it is then, need to avoid other dogs and hopefully cats too.


Hopefully it won't be for too long, hun, but if we do as we are told now, then maybe we can all return back to normality sooner.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been expecting to see road blocks when I drive down to the hospital for the radiotherapy, so have made sure I was carrying hospital letters and my driving license for ID purposes, but have seen none. Cheltenham is a busy town but I did expect to see less traffic then I have been doing. Admittedly there’s not the usual queues at traffic lights, but there still seems to be a lot of cars on the road. Are they legitimately going somewhere, shopping perhaps or what, no idea. Round the village it’s becoming rare to hear a vehicle not that it was busy before, but now it’s amazingly quiet. It’s like the area is standing still and waiting.

The skies are as clear as a bell at night. Lots of people have been watching the ISS go over and Elon Musks train of satellites have been very visible. If the shut down continues for months rather then weeks as it may well do then this can only benefit wildlife and the worlds health


Still can’t book a delivery slot on Tesco’s . Sighhhhhhh


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> Yeah, he doesnt seem to blink or move his forehead.


I've noticed that. i think he's an alien


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> If people continue to think they can do whatever they like


To be fair, in @Cleo38 case, it does not sound at all like "do whatever you like" but rather trying to mitigate risk. A drive means less exposure whereas walking she would touch more communal things, encounter more people and increase exposure.

If only people more people were thinking things through like that from the outset.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> Technically yes I think. They have to exercise the racehorses, so we aren't banned, or weren't last time I looked.
> 
> The advice from bodies like the BHS etc was to exercise the horses in hand and not ride, but if we have to, to do a gentle hack in easily accessible areas, or the manège. But tbh, I stopped riding straight away. I'd never forgive myself if I did have an accident and had to explain to overworked nhs staff that I was out riding my horse in the sunshine, while they combat a plague. So I haven't kept up to date on that one.
> 
> Last time I did look there was talk of yard/farm owners taking over the care of all of the animals on their property, and large yards saying they couldn't do it, but I don't think it was brought in.


Good common sense advice though.


----------



## O2.0

Beth78 said:


> She's reactive and road walks are very difficult .


Now's the time to have a reactive dog. Let Whisp make a scene should help keep people away!


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> Obviously I don't know either way, but I would think the no driving rule is to limit the spread of the virus. You can get a lot further driving than walking, so operating on the assumption that everyone is infected and can transmit the virus, keeping people from driving limits the travel distance of the virus


Exactly this. Taking exercise, both human and canine, within a short radius of your home significantly limits the chances of the virus spreading outside of the immediate area if someone has it and is unaware. If, on the other hand, you hop in the car and drive ten minutes away, you will come into contact with a far wider cross-section of people and all the places they have touched, as well as needing more petrol, risking accidents and breakdowns etc. Staying as local as possible slows the spread significantly.



Sacremist said:


> Hopefully it won't be for too long, hun, but if we do as we are told now, then maybe we can all return back to normality sooner.


Precisely. The longer it takes for people to do what is being asked (and will have to be enforced if they don't do it voluntarily), the longer we all have to do it for. Oh, and the more people it will kill. I _really _don't want my family members who are NHS doctors to have to be put in the position of telling people that they are very sorry, but their loved one doesn't meet the current criteria for lifesaving treatment due to lack of beds and equipment and other people have a much better probability of surviving...


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> To be fair, in @Cleo38 case, it does not sound at all like "do whatever you like" but rather trying to mitigate risk. A drive means less exposure whereas walking she would touch more communal things, encounter more people and increase exposure.
> 
> If only people more people were thinking things through like that from the outset.


That was the problem. They didn't. So now we can't. A drive is a vehicle on the road. How many emergency services do you think would be involved, if she crashed into another person also taking their dog for a walk? How many if she broke down? How many when she goes to the garage to fuel up? How many dog walkers from other villages have touched that tree, that fence? If everyone stays where they are and undertakes only absolutely essential journeys, we come into contact with the same people, in the same places. England isn't America. (Presuming we're talking England).

ETA posting at the same time as @Jesthar


----------



## Beth78

Elles said:


> That was the problem. They didn't. So now we can't. A drive is a vehicle on the road. How many emergency services do you think would be involved, if she crashed into another person also taking their dog for a walk? How many if she broke down? How many when she goes to the garage to fuel up? How many dog walkers from other villages have touched that tree, that fence? If everyone stays where they are and undertakes only absolutely essential journeys, we come into contact with the same people, in the same places. England isn't America. (Presuming we're talking England).
> 
> ETA posting at the same time as @Jesthar


That makes sense.


----------



## Magyarmum

Breaking News

Boris has contracted the Coronavirus.


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> To be fair, in @Cleo38 case, it does not sound at all like "do whatever you like" but rather trying to mitigate risk. A drive means less exposure whereas walking she would touch more communal things, encounter more people and increase exposure.
> 
> If only people more people were thinking things through like that from the outset.


I understand why she's doing it and I agree in her case it makes sense, but whether the police will think the same and make an exception is anyone's guess. If they spend their days constantly having to force people to go home, their patience might start to wear very thin and they may no longer be in the mood for listening.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Breaking News
> 
> Boris has contracted the Coronavirus.


Not surprising really. I never understood why it took so long to clear the press out when they were doing the announcements.

I wish him well.


----------



## Beth78

Magyarmum said:


> Breaking News
> 
> Boris has contracted the Coronavirus.


Realy ? 
Poor Boris


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Not surprising really. I never understood why it took so long to clear the press out when they were doing the announcements.
> 
> I wish him well.


So do I. He may not be someone I like very much, but he's stepped up to the plate over the virus and seems to have become Mr Serious which I welcomed.


----------



## lullabydream

@MilleD seem to have lost your quote..
I caught up with the last bit of the pub quiz as I needed my evening shower..

I nearly posted here about it. I was amazed how many joined in.

Such a good idea! We should have ran a team here!


----------



## Magyarmum

Beth78 said:


> Realy ?
> Poor Boris


Yep really .... I'm in Hungary but heard about it on CNN TV which is US News channel

Small world!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has tested positive for coronavirus,


----------



## Siskin

@Magyarmum

The latest is that house buying and selling has been stopped in the U.K. and those that have sold and supposed to move out have been asked to see if they can stay put with the agreement of the house buyer. Mortgage offers have been extended so this can happen.

Will this help your friends?


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> Breaking News
> 
> Boris has contracted the Coronavirus.


TBF Im sure half the NHS staff either have or have had the virus...they just dont get tested!


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> @MilleD seem to have lost your quote..
> I caught up with the last bit of the pub quiz as I needed my evening shower..
> 
> I nearly posted here about it. I was amazed how many joined in.
> 
> Such a good idea! We should have ran a team here!


It was really good! The last 'years' round was our weakest, never been good with dates 

Over half a million did it apparently. It was good fun, and we didn't cheat


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> @Magyarmum
> 
> The latest is that house buying and selling has been stopped in the U.K. and those that have sold and supposed to move out have been asked to see if they can stay put with the agreement of the house buyer. Mortgage offers have been extended so this can happen.
> 
> Will this help your friends?


Thanks for the information. I'll email my friends and ask them if they know about it!


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> @Magyarmum
> 
> The latest is that house buying and selling has been stopped in the U.K. and those that have sold and supposed to move out have been asked to see if they can stay put with the agreement of the house buyer. Mortgage offers have been extended so this can happen.
> 
> Will this help your friends?


My estate agent (selling my late step fathers house) has said that they were hoping they would be able to carry on with the solicitor type bits as we are in the conveyancing stage, but that she was expecting more advice which is this I guess.

Brilliant...


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Ian went to get petrol . They wouldnt accept cash only cards/
> 
> is it wrong to be enjoying the peace and quiet, no planes , helicopters , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives and no litter. Reminds me of the old days before this place became part of London and it was fields .


I had to catch a bus two days ago and the driver was so lonely he said goodbye to me!! :HilariousI was the only one on the bus. But yes, I love the peace and quiet.


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> Breaking News
> 
> Boris has contracted the Coronavirus.


Not suprised really considering the number of people he has been in contact with recently. Poor BoJo. My best wishes to him for a mild illness and speedy recovery.


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> I had to catch a bus two days ago and the driver was so lonely he said goodbye to me!! :HilariousI was the only one on the bus. But yes, I love the peace and quiet.


One of our local independent pubs is keeping their takeaway menu open for collection, so I decided to order a pizza from them last night to support them. I went and picked it up in what would usually be prime time traffic, and saw only about two dozen vehicles during the trip there and back. It was totally surreal, as was walking into an empty pub.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> England isn't America.


Thanks for clarifying that for me, I'm obviously too dim to understand that 

I was just trying to stick up for another member, I'll bow out now and enjoy not living on a tiny island with 55 million other people....


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> My estate agent (selling my late step fathers house) has said that they were hoping they would be able to carry on with the solicitor type bits as we are in the conveyancing stage, but that she was expecting more advice which is this I guess.
> 
> Brilliant...


I'm so relieved that my son got his house purchase sorted out in February and moved in safely. His only difficulty has been stocking up their depleated food cupboards and neither of them are exactly good cooks so tend to live off easy to prepare stuff. Maybe they might find out how to become chefs over the next few weeks. Luckily he can work from home and his girlfriend who normally works in the care sector but had a very compromised immune system, has been able to do some work for hi


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> enjoy not living on a tiny island with 55 million other people....


You'll be fine....Donald says you'll be open by Easter!


----------



## JoanneF

I may have missed something, this thread has had a lot of replies since I last checked in but -



Elles said:


> The policeman who wants me to wind my window down and talk to him might be infected. I might be infected and give it to him.


Isn't tending to animals on a farm an essential journey? And assuming it is, can you write or print a note to that effect and that you don't want to open the window for risk of infection, and show it through the window to anyone who stops you, ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> Same here. I cant walk far , I can just about manage the few minutes my nearest park but joggers and cyclists pass me on the way in the street and at the gate . Or I can drive and be safe in my car for 5 or ten minutes to somewhere isolated and not meet anyone.


This is where common sense should prevail IMO.

What you're doing is lower risk than walking where it's crowded so I wouldn't tell you you're wrong to keep safe that way tbh.

Jack and I are sticking mainly to pavement walks round the estate and barely see anyone, thankfully.

Yesterday I went over the fields and had to change direction to avoid 2 women walking 4 dogs then duck back through a hedge to avoid a mum, dad and 2 kids running along the narrow part of a footpath that would have led me back to the lane.


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> Thanks for clarifying that for me, I'm obviously too dim to understand that
> 
> I was just trying to stick up for another member, I'll bow out now and enjoy not living on a tiny island with 55 million other people....


I think it's more that a lot of Across-The-Pondians really struggle to comprehend just how small the UK is compared with the US, and how densely populated it is as a result. We end up havign to try and explain it quite a lot, sometimes!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> I've noticed that. i think he's an alien


He's employed for his brain, not his looks.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> I think it's more that a lot of Across-The-Pondians really struggle to comprehend just how small the UK is compared with the US, and how densely populated it is as a result. We end up havign to try and explain it quite a lot, sometimes!


I don't think anything about my posts conveyed a lack of understanding of the population density of the UK. Not only am I not too thick to understand a concept like population density, having lived in areas as densely populated as the UK, I actually DO understand what it's like to live on top of each other.

I was simply commenting on the explanations a few other members (in the UK) were giving for driving to walk their dogs. Those explanations seemed sensible, well thought out, and not selfish. I was trying to be understanding to them.

FWIW, Covid-19 is not an individual country problem, it's a global problem. Like it or not, we're in this together, we should be commiserating together.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> He's employed for his brain, not his looks.


Thank god that applies to most of us then


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> He's employed for his brain, not his looks.


And that's working just fine. Thankfully.

I really like listening to his deputy too, can't remember her name.


----------



## DanWalkersmum

Siskin said:


> I've been expecting to see road blocks when I drive down to the hospital for the radiotherapy, so have made sure I was carrying hospital letters and my driving license for ID purposes, but have seen none. Cheltenham is a busy town but I did expect to see less traffic then I have been doing. Admittedly there's not the usual queues at traffic lights, but there still seems to be a lot of cars on the road. Are they legitimately going somewhere, shopping perhaps or what, no idea. Round the village it's becoming rare to hear a vehicle not that it was busy before, but now it's amazingly quiet. It's like the area is standing still and waiting.
> 
> The skies are as clear as a bell at night. Lots of people have been watching the ISS go over and Elon Musks train of satellites have been very visible. If the shut down continues for months rather then weeks as it may well do then this can only benefit wildlife and the worlds health
> 
> Still can't book a delivery slot on Tesco's . Sighhhhhhh


I was fetching my washing in last night before it was dark and saw a bright object in the sky that didn't move checked it out online and apparently it was Venus! So bright and also a new moon just to the right of it. Is this so clear because of the current air travel shutdown making the atmosphere clearer? Might have to get a telescope! Thought it was a sign from above.........
I went shopping for essentials on Wednesday and the main road was not busy except for large vehicles, deliveries I suppose. It was an experience, there were 5 or six people standing outside and a security guard was letting one person in as soon as one came out, very civilised. Manged to get everything on my list so okay for a week or so. It did feel a bit surreal and selfishly I really can't wait to have the freedom of movement back. It could be much worse though


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> And that's working just fine. Thankfully.
> 
> I really like listening to his deputy too, can't remember her name.


Yes she's sounds as though she knows what she's talking about.
There's a lady, doctor I think, on with Mary Nightingale on ITV evening news. I thinks she's doing a fantastic job at providing answers and helping us to make sense of it all.
We need people we can trust during this and not idle speculation.


----------



## MilleD

Does walking up and down my street because one of the bloody cats has escaped count as me daily exercise?


----------



## mrs phas

Just phoned Suffolk 101 to doubley make sure I'm ok to pick son up from Heathrow Monday
Got told, yes it would be, they are asking people to apply common sense
And
Yes, a piece of a4 held to window to explain where and why I'm making the journey will be perfectly ok in their eyes,
but, obviously they can't know whether other forces will accept it, so, if they actually want to speak to me, only to roll the window the minimum amount
Lady on other end said, they only know what we know, at the moment, which she agreed is quite a jumble


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> ! :Hilarious Have you had a letter from the Gov yet? I dont know if I will get one or not.


What sort of letter? No, none received, and no-one I know has mentioned one either.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Does walking up and down my street because one of the bloody cats has escaped count as me daily exercise?


Oh no!
Which one?


----------



## Elles

Portugal. octor

CM Coimbra has on the ground several teams that help to minimize the spread of the new coronavirus, through the disinfection of several strategic places of potential infection.

+info: http://bit.ly/2U1vqJA

#coimbra #municipiodecoimbra #covid19

and video of what they're doing which seems to be on the official Facebook page on 25th

https://www.facebook.com/municipiodecoimbra/


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Oh no!
> Which one?


Ralph.

I've found him. There is an access road for other houses to one side of my house and he was down there. As soon as he saw me, he started legging it towards me meowing his head off.

Plainly he thought it was a good idea until he got out there!

Butter wouldn't melt now...


----------



## Cookielabrador

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but this popped up on my news this morning. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791


----------



## Elles

Cookielabrador said:


> Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but this popped up on my news this morning.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791


lol, only in every other post. :Hilarious *only a slight exaggeration*


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Prime Minister Boris Johnson has tested positive for coronavirus,


I hope Carrie is ok . her baby is due early summer I think.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> What sort of letter? No, none received, and no-one I know has mentioned one either.


I think its telling vulnerable people that they have to isolate for 3 months.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> I think its telling vulnerable people that they have to isolate for 3 months.


These are the letters that are being sent the people the government want to shield. There was only 1.5m people they said so I think you do have to have quite a severe form of the illnesses they mention to get one.


----------



## urbantigers

MilleD said:


> Ralph.
> 
> I've found him. There is an access road for other houses to one side of my house and he was down there. As soon as he saw me, he started legging it towards me meowing his head off.
> 
> Plainly he thought it was a good idea until he got out there!
> 
> Butter wouldn't melt now...
> 
> View attachment 434694


I hope you asked him if he'd practiced social distancing.

I went out to collect a prescription this morning. What a saga. It's a Boots store in a a small town. I had to queue for an hour and a half to get into the store (glad it wasn't raining), a further 15 minutes to get to the front of the queue once inside, and then I waited for nearly 20 minutes whilst they struggled to find it. Good job I checked as no pregabalin. The most important thing as I'm almost out. I managed to remain polite as I know they are doing their best in difficult circumstances, but I was fuming as I wouldn't have gone for it today if I'd known they didn't have it. I spoke to someone on the phone on Wednesday and was told they had everything and said I'd collect on Friday. I think she may have meant they had the prescription (which was sent though on Monday). I was told all I could do was wait until they had it (possibly tomorrow but could have been next week) or take the prescription and go around all the other pharmacies to see if they had any Pregabalin. I had little choice as I only have one day's worth left, but fortunately the first place I went to. - Tesco - had some. As I wanted the pharmacy, I didn't have to queue up outside with others waiting to do shopping.

People queueing were generally standing 2m apart (mostly) but others not in the queue would walk in between people and of course what do people tend to do when in a queue? Talk to other people in the queue! And not from 2m away. Poor woman in front of me looked as though she was well into her 90s so I told her to go and sit down on a nearby bench and I would save her place for her. She was worried that other people would think she was pushing in so I told her I'd run them over with my scooter if they voiced that  Tesco seemed well organised.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Just rang our local pharmacy to ask about adding OH to the Prescription Delivery Service given that we’re in isolation to be told deliveries are suspended as their driver is in isolation.


----------



## Charity

We've just had a Tesco delivery and the chap thanked us for adhering to the social distancing rule, he said most people he visits weren't taking any notice of it at all.:Rage


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Just rang our local pharmacy to ask about adding OH to the Prescription Delivery Service given that we're in isolation to be told deliveries are suspended as their driver is in isolation.


Difficult with that one because you can't let any Jo bod take a load of drugs out. Doesn't help you though


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Just rang our local pharmacy to ask about adding OH to the Prescription Delivery Service given that we're in isolation to be told deliveries are suspended as their driver is in isolation.


Oh no, what will you do? Do you have anyone who could get it for you? I must admit that's a worry of mine as I rely on my script being delivered.


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> Difficult with that one because you can't let any Jo bod take a load of drugs out. Doesn't help you though


You probably just need a volunteer without a criminal record! I know we routinely send medications off with a taxi service with no trouble. I mean if something goes missing you would know who to blame!


----------



## Cully

Charity said:


> We've just had a Tesco delivery and the chap thanked us for adhering to the social distancing rule, he said most people he visits weren't taking any notice of it at all.:Rage


Unbelievable! Non residents have to enter using a intercom system here, so when they buzz me I tell them to knock on my door and I'll open it then distance myself. Works so far.
Man came to fix my bathroom light yesterday, all masked up and apologised for it(as if!) . I explained I'd shut the middle door to avoid contact. We still managed a bit of friendly banter even though we were shouting quietly.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Lurcherlad said:


> Just rang our local pharmacy to ask about adding OH to the Prescription Delivery Service given that we're in isolation to be told deliveries are suspended as their driver is in isolation.


This is definitely and area where suitable volunteers are needed! The service is under tremendous strain here, fortunately my mums medication came yesterday but it was almost a week later than normal. Mum has had her medication delivered for a good few years now but understandably and sensibly, to reduce going out, a lot more people want theirs delivered. I fear people will be going without vital meds as to prevent stockpiling the repeat prescription service will only accept requests for medication that will run out in 7 or less days but the delivery service isn't getting it to them for at least 10 days! We only have two drivers, both still well fortunately but struggling to cope, heaven knows what will happen if either, or worse still both, have to self isolate!


----------



## Gemmaa

rona said:


> Difficult with that one because you can't let any Jo bod take a load of drugs out. Doesn't help you though


I don't know about that...I queued outside our pharmacy/doctors today, and got my parents prescriptions chucked at me through the window, and didn't get asked to confirm address, didn't sign for it or fill out next months prescription :Woot


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> No, it's not. They send you home, take your details and say if you do it again, from today, it's fines and for persistent offenders, arrest. Driving a car puts a vehicle on the road (potential accident) and in fuelling garages (potential infection), that health workers have no choice but to access. It also puts police at risk when they stop you to ensure you have a legitimate reason for driving.
> 
> There are exceptions, daily driving the dog for a walk isn't one of them here in the U.K. if they get enough people driving to take the dog for a walk, I have no doubt that they will introduce even more draconian rules and we will end up having to register and have paperwork to prove why we're driving. We are not allowed to even put our dog in the car, other than to visit the vet, under the vet's instruction. So if they see us with a dog in the car, we will be stopped. I already said, I was at a road block yesterday and people with dogs were sent home. This is on the edge of Exeter.
> 
> We were offered the sensible, common sense thing and people weren't sensible, so now new laws are being pushed through to control us practically daily. It's terrifying where it could lead to.


There are always a few who spoil it for the majority, sadly.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Gemmaa said:


> I don't know about that...I queued outside our pharmacy/doctors today, and got my parents prescriptions chucked at me through the window, and didn't get asked to confirm address, didn't sign for it or fill out next months prescription :Woot


Crickey that is bad! When for whatever reason I have had to pick up a prescription for mum, I am always asked to confirm address even though they know me well. Everything is just going to pot! I fear more people are going to end up seriously ill because of the situation we are in than through the virus itself! The community nurses that take blood for housebound patients are really struggling as the vulnerable but otherwise generally able to attend the hospital for blood tests are know having to have those taken at home too.


----------



## rona

Figures are pretty grim today


----------



## Jesthar

Charity said:


> We've just had a Tesco delivery and the chap thanked us for adhering to the social distancing rule, he said most people he visits weren't taking any notice of it at all.:Rage


Maybe the supermarkets need to be keeping a record of this and issuing warnings, then suspending accounts for repeat offenders...


----------



## cheekyscrip

I think that Boris just wants to hide...
Not accepting EU package will delay vaccine, meds and make them more expensive.
It will cost many lives, I always thought he and his twin Trump are dangerous.

There is a good, old Jewish words for them: schmocks!


----------



## willa

So Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock and the Chief Medical Officer are all in isolation


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> Oh no, what will you do? Do you have anyone who could get it for you? I must admit that's a worry of mine as I rely on my script being delivered.


I can ask a couple of friends who are still able to go out and shop, etc.

If not, I'll register OH at the Council's local hub that will assist vulnerable residents with food/med supplies.


----------



## rona

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-people-with-animals


----------



## Magyarmum

Interesting article about the number of hospital beds available in Europe

https://rmx.news/article/article/co...kfR5KaS-VtvIwL9_IdpAuAszEyvYlPJAbC3Jyfd9Ve334

*Coronavirus: Hungary, Czechia, Poland, and Slovakia rank in top 10 for number of hospital beds per population*


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Ralph.
> 
> I've found him. There is an access road for other houses to one side of my house and he was down there. As soon as he saw me, he started legging it towards me meowing his head off.
> 
> Plainly he thought it was a good idea until he got out there!
> 
> Butter wouldn't melt now...
> 
> View attachment 434694


My goodness he's a gorgeous looking cat
What breed is he?
I would guess British blue but I've never seen that colouration/markings
And
Does he have those big scrummy Tom cat chops?


----------



## purringcats

919 have died in the last 24 hours in Italy which takes the total deaths to 9,134 in Italy.

In Spain 769 have died in one day bringing the total deaths to 4,858 in Spain.

In the UK there has been an increase of 185 deaths with a total of 769 who have died in the UK.


----------



## lorilu

Just a little vent here. First I will mention that I live in the US in an area with no lock downs or quarantines yet, just general advisory to isolate and stay home as much as possible, only essential people are allowed to go to work. I drive up to a little quiet hiking spot I've been going to for over 20 years for my fresh air and exercise each day. It's only a couple miles up the road, and then up the mountainside a bit.

I live on what used to be a rural road but isn't really any more, hasn't been for many years. Traffic uses it as a by pass for the main road, and the traffic is heavy, even now. There are no shoulders on this road, it's really not safe to walk, but now, people are doing it. Up until all this, you might encounter someone walking their dog now and then. But with everyone home and wanting to get out, the road is littered with people.

Singles, couples, family groups. Great they are getting out and exercising but most of them are idiots. Especially the family groups, always on the WRONG SIDE of the road. Yesterday a family group walking on the same side as traffic, and several couples too. Only the dog walkers were on the correct side of the road (facing traffic). 

This morning on my drive up to hike I encountered a single cyclist (wrong side of the road, facing traffic) and a family on bikes, not only on the wrong side of the road (facing traffic) but strung out across the road. Since there was on coming traffic I had to stop my car and just sit and wait for the on coming traffic to pass because the people did not move out of the road.

The trail which, up until now was rarely used much that I know of, is starting to show the effects of the extra people going up there, by way of litter. A plastic food container, sandwich wrappers, candy bar wrappers, soda cans and water bottles littered the trails today. Cigarette butts as well. And a kid's toy dinosaur.

Normally I pick up litter on the trail when I see it but not these days, and of course I've never seen so much of it.

People just suck.


----------



## Cleo38

rona said:


> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-people-with-animals


Can't see where it says about not driving to exercise … have I missed it?


----------



## Cully

Just a thought about not driving. I would have thought that in the case of an accident it would involve other people: witnesses, police, ambulance, hospital taking vital staff away to attend in A&E,tow truck etc, all of whom would be at risk of contracting CV. Wouldn't that be good enough reason to avoid using a car?


----------



## rona

Who remembers this?
https://www.change.org/p/richard-br...n-the-nhs-s-money-and-never-sue-the-nhs-again

Should we bail him out with Virgin Atlantic?

I say, sell one of your Islands you money grabbing git


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Just rang our local pharmacy to ask about adding OH to the Prescription Delivery Service given that we're in isolation to be told deliveries are suspended as their driver is in isolation.


Oh dear.  What will you do? ETA just read your other post . No need to reply to this .


----------



## kimthecat

For anyone who needs a hug !


----------



## rona

*"The use of public rights of way*
NFU members have been concerned over the volume of people who have been flocking to the countryside in recent days. This is causing anxiety to our members, particularly if they have family members in at-risk groups. They see crowds of people in close proximity and many public rights of way (PROW) go through their farmyards and gardens.

The NFU recognise that there are multiple health and wellness benefits to getting out and enjoying the countryside, we promote this and arguably during this time it may be imperative that the countryside remains open. However, we may need emergency measures in place to protect the vulnerable and alleviate anxiety."


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Who remembers this?
> https://www.change.org/p/richard-br...n-the-nhs-s-money-and-never-sue-the-nhs-again
> 
> Should we bail him out with Virgin Atlantic?
> 
> I say, sell one of your Islands you money grabbing git


Absolutely no way whatsoever, he can lose the lot for all I care although will feel sorry for his employees.


----------



## Elles

Police just on tv saying not to drive unless absolutely essential. Local means local, stay at home. Do not drive just because the dog needs a walk, just because you’re five minutes away, 10 minutes away, just because. Putting new police officers on the streets to stop people. The question was asked about people driving a few minutes to a more isolated spot, people saying that they normally wouldn’t see anyone, but now staying local means they are seeing more people. The police said no. Local. Do not drive. The rules apply to everyone. Sorry.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Absolutely no way whatsoever, he can lose the lot for all I care although will feel sorry for his employees.


He doesn't care about them. One of my friends father worked for him and became ill just before he was due to retire.
They took £1000s off his pension pot


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> He doesn't care about them. One of my friends father worked for him and became ill just before he was due to retire.
> They took £1000s off his pension pot


Disgusting!


----------



## Elles

See the hedge on the left? There's a footpath runs the other side of it. I usually see 2 people a day. Both older local people with border collies. To everyone else. Stay away. Wait for the public forestry walks to reopen. They didn't close the car parks out of spite to make you drive somewhere else.  The locals are putting signs on their bins and leaving them out, to stop people calling on them to ask for directions, or parking on their drive. Unbelievable!


----------



## Elles




----------



## Elles

A pure bread dog. Last one, sorry. :Hilarious


----------



## lullabydream

This article is what it's like being one of those classed as extremely vulnerable
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/coronavirus-lockdown-boris-johnson-health-3988571

It's gives us some perspective of those who are on the '12 week stay inside' I thought. Not even go into the garden

As the person states, he lives in quite an isolated area but he has to stay indoors, and get fresh air from an 'open window' whilst shielding.


----------



## Cleo38

rona said:


> Who remembers this?
> https://www.change.org/p/richard-br...n-the-nhs-s-money-and-never-sue-the-nhs-again
> 
> Should we bail him out with Virgin Atlantic?
> 
> I say, sell one of your Islands you money grabbing git


After his employees were told about compulsory 8 weeks unpaid leave aswell as some having to take 10% pay cuts (& still the threats of losing their jobs) he posted a disgusting pic on his FB page showing some huge, palatial home & bragging about how he spent a perfect day with his mum on Mother's Day …. so arrogant, smug & completely out of touch, everyone else thought so & he was slated for it.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> I see someone has opened the gates to the lunatic asylum!


i thought i heard the fun boy three passing in the distance


----------



## SusieRainbow

It's really not appropriate to bring political rumours and theories into this thread, the aim is to share accurate information and support each other.


----------



## kittih

SusieRainbow said:


> It's really not appropriate to bring political rumours and theories into this thread, the aim is to share accurate information and support each other.


Absolutely agree. In the UK people are dying from this virus. Not just old or with underlying health conditions. People are losing loved ones and are not allowed to be with them at their last moments. People cant attend their funerals.

This is not some political cover up it is real and our lives will all be affected by this one way and another for a long time irrespective of political, religious or other affiliation.

Nursing and other medical colleagues and friends are working 18 hour days to help people due to COVID 19. Our hospital beds are rapidly filling up and our local air ambulance doesn't have sufficient protective equipment to work safely and her in the UK we are only 7 days since schools closed and 5 since lock down.

I am really not following the political situation in the USA but the idea of dismissing this corona virus pandemic as political conspiracy horrifies me.

Unless people take this seriously and that means no social contact (not a cheeky visit to Aunt Mary because surely that cant hurt) then this virus will continue to spread. The health care system in the UK is already getting overwhelmed, what will it be like in two or three weeks when all those people who thought that politicians and experts were making a big deal out of nothing and decided to go to the beach, pub or family gathering anyway get infected, infect family friends and they need treatment.

I am not known for having a rant on PF in fact I rarely post but please take this virus seriously if not for your own sake then for all the other people who are relying on you to do so.


----------



## lorilu

Dave S said:


> Whilst I enjoyed the pics of Tombstone etc I cannot believe that this latest posting was anything but an insult to the families who have lost loved ones throughout the world and all the other people suffering from this virus in any way what so ever.
> 
> I think it would be a good idea if he signed out - permanently, lest the whole thread disintegrates into an argument.


 The US is having many of the same issues. It's just we're about 5 times larger in population, over a much larger area besides, so it's more diluted. New York State is hardest hit so far, with NYC considered the "epicenter" of the disease. We have no tests where I live, they still have to be sent out, so confirmed cases come in dribs and drabs.


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> . The US is having many of the same issues. It's just we're about 5 times larger in population, over a much larger area besides, so it's more diluted. New York State is hardest hit so far, with NYC considered the "epicenter" of the disease. We have no tests where I live, they still have to be sent out, so confirmed cases come in dribs and drabs.


I saw a news clip from a New York hospital with Covid-19 patients, quite overwhelming seeing bed after bed taken up with patients with the virus.


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> I saw a news clip from a New York hospital with Covid-19 patients, quite overwhelming seeing bed after bed taken up with patients with the virus.


We are short of all needed supplies, face masks, respirators ventilators.

Avocado, the California based company where I bought my bed, is now making face masks and selling them to hospitals at cost. They are also offering disposable protective wear items and bedding. In my local area a brewery has turned from making brews to making hand sanitizer. There is a local organization asking for donations of clean tight weave cotton, also making face masks. But it's the respirators and ventilators that are most needed in hospitals.

Temporary hospitals are being planned and set up, to house those suffering from this disease. People seem to forget that hospitals already usually have pretty full bed count, because of other illnesses. It's not like the hospitals are sitting around empty just wanting for a pandemic.

The rural four county area where I live has "only" about 20 confirmed cases so far. But that's only because we have no tests.


----------



## JoanneF

@lorilu, *please* forgive me, as I read your post I thought you were listing avocado as being in short supply! :Hilarious

First world problems ...


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> We are short of all needed supplies, face masks, respirators ventilators. Avocado, the California based company where I bought my bed, is now making face masks and selling them to hospitals at cost. They are also offering disposable protective wear items and bedding. In my local area a brewery has turned from making brews to making hand sanitizer. There is a local organization asking for donations of clean tight weave cotton, also making face masks. But it's the respirators and ventilators that are most needed in hospitals.
> 
> Temporary hospitals are being planned and set up, to house those suffering from this disease. People seem to forget that hospitals already usually have pretty full bed count, because of other illnesses. It's not like the hospitals are sitting around empty just wanting for a pandemic.
> 
> The rural four county area where I live has "only" about 20 confirmed cases so far. But that's only because we have no tests.


Liked your post in acknowledgement

The UK is really in a similar position
Have been reading similar in the news that these businesses are now doing this and that, but these stories are falling by the wayside so to speak. 
In fact I think everywhere in the developed World is singing to a similar song sheet, no idea how the undeveloped world is coping to be honest.

One 'hospital' is just opening and 2 similiar style hospitals will be opening too.


----------



## mrs phas




----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> no idea how the undeveloped world is coping to be honest.


This is something that's laying heavy on my heart...


----------



## kittih

For anyone that still thinks that a little bit of flouting the Stay At Home directives wont matter and that it will just be a couple of weeks at home then everything is back to normal think again...

This is a facebook post that was shared by a US epidemiologist called Jonathan Smith that explains the situation pretty frankly...

Hey everybody, as an infectious disease epidemiologist (although a lowly one), at this point feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures. Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not articulated or not present in the “literature” of social media. I am also tagging my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post. Please correct me if I am wrong (any edits are from peer review).
Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous.
First, we are in the very infancy of this epidemic’s trajectory. That means even with these measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren’t. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is also normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse. This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don’t.
Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it of course increases your contacts with group (i.e. family) members. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic trajectory isn’t much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit. You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that chain.
In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how ‘one quick little get together’ can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise. You can’t cheat it. People are already itching to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a “little”- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all of the work the community has done so far.
Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in one grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months. This virus is unforgiving to unwise choices. My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting ‘sucker-punched’ by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn’t working and become paralyzed by fear, or to ‘cheat’ a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures, my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty.


----------



## lorilu

mrs phas said:


> View attachment 434727










Yep.


----------



## lorilu

JoanneF said:


> @lorilu, *please* forgive me, as I read your post I thought you were listing avocado as being in short supply! :Hilarious
> 
> First world problems ...


I'll make a new paragraph to fix that. lol


----------



## SusieRainbow

I have done some pruning following a long ranty and political post, and deleted some of the responses to that post as they are no longer relevant.


----------



## JoanneF

lorilu said:


> I'll make a new paragraph to fix that. lol


Noooo - we need the light relief! :Kiss


----------



## lorilu

JoanneF said:


> Noooo - we need the light relief! :Kiss


Your confusion did make me chuckle. And, 3 + years in, I absolutely love my organic Avocado mattress.


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> Your confusion did make me chuckle. And, 3 + years in, I absolutely love my organic Avocado mattress.


So want to google an avocado shaped bed.. I bet there is one @JoanneF over to you to find one!


----------



## mrs phas

something that has got me wondering is...........
if we are all good people
and thse over 70 and vunerable, stay inside for the next 12 weeks
what happens when, we can mingle again?
everyone else, possibly, has had the virus and got over it ( or havent RIP)
yet us coming out of quarantine, havent
will we be like the flame that beckons the moth?
fresh meat for the virus, as it will still be around, just, maybe, not so virrulant
as 
until we emerge, it has exhausted its hosts,
or 
do we presume
that
by the end of 12 weeks, there will be some sort of immunisation
and we will be first in the queue?

I know I always say
never trouble, trouble
til
trouble, troubles you
but theres nowt else to do, except sit and ponder ones own navel
or go slowly mad


----------



## JoanneF

lullabydream said:


> So want to google an avocado shaped bed.. I bet there is one @JoanneF over to you to find one!


Eek - no pressure then!


----------



## JoanneF

JoanneF said:


> Eek - no pressure then!


https://images.app.goo.gl/cB42AfdEuxnkq8gC6

@lullabydream


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> something that has got me wondering is...........
> if we are all good people
> and thse over 70 and vunerable, stay inside for the next 12 weeks
> what happens when, we can mingle again?
> everyone else, possibly, has had the virus and got over it ( or havent RIP)
> yet us coming out of quarantine, havent
> will we be like the flame that beckons the moth?
> fresh meat for the virus, as it will still be around, just, maybe, not so virrulant
> as
> until we emerge, it has exhausted its hosts,
> or
> do we presume
> that
> by the end of 12 weeks, there will be some sort of immunisation
> and we will be first in the queue?
> 
> I know I always say
> never trouble, trouble
> til
> trouble, troubles you
> but theres nowt else to do, except sit and ponder ones own navel
> or go slowly mad


The virus wont disappear in 12 weeks. The point of the 12 week isolation period is to a) protect the vulnerable from the first waves of infection when a large number of people will be getting the virus and spreading it and b) allow the NHS to build capacity to support those who may need it most and c) be closer to producing a vaccine or developing other supportive treatments.

Covid 19 is now endemic in the community. It will probably remain so forever just like flu. However unlike flu, C19 isnt a virus humans have evolved with and as yet there is no vaccine so it will take some time before the population can as a whole cope with it effectively. Even with flu a large number of vulnerable individuals die each year.

The main concern of health professionals and governments is to manage the infection ie flatten the curve so that there are enough resources to treat everyone. There will most likely be waves of more and less severe social restrictions over the next 12 months or so for this reason. Life will not go back to normal in 3 months. People will continue to be infected for many many months to come but hopefully the total number infected will be fewer at any one time so hospitals can have facilities to treat all who need it.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> something that has got me wondering is...........
> if we are all good people
> and thse over 70 and vunerable, stay inside for the next 12 weeks
> what happens when, we can mingle again?
> everyone else, possibly, has had the virus and got over it ( or havent RIP)
> yet us coming out of quarantine, havent
> will we be like the flame that beckons the moth?
> fresh meat for the virus, as it will still be around, just, maybe, not so virrulant
> as
> until we emerge, it has exhausted its hosts,
> or
> do we presume
> that
> by the end of 12 weeks, there will be some sort of immunisation
> and we will be first in the queue?
> 
> I know I always say
> never trouble, trouble
> til
> trouble, troubles you
> but theres nowt else to do, except sit and ponder ones own navel
> or go slowly mad


You are helping to flatten the curve. That's why as soon as you received the text you were supposed to not go outside.

The idea is protect the NHS.

It's probably inevitable we all get it, it will probably a worry for more than the 12 weeks but with those 12 weeks that should come heat which hypothetical should kill the virus. So the NHS, the government can prepare again.

Am sure no one wants to tell anyone stay inside and open a window for fresh air. I am sure some have completely ignored this advice too already. Which is a damn shame if they have when they are classed as the most extremely vulnerable and thought nipping to the shop is OK. They are the ones that are more likely to need the ventilators that are not available and making doctors having to make difficult decisions of who gets life support who does not.


----------



## kittih

lullabydream said:


> but with those 12 weeks that should come heat which hypothetical should kill the virus.


Unfortunately unlike influenza C19 is likely not affected by hot weather. It is prevalent currently in those countries experiencing warmer temps than our countries own summer. However the benefit of delaying things till summer is that flu and other illnesses that are prevalent in winter months will have reduced, freeing those resources for corona related cases.


----------



## lullabydream

kittih said:


> Unfortunately unlike influenza C19 is likely not affected by hot weather. It is prevalent currently in those countries experiencing warmer temps than our countries own summer. However the benefit of delaying things till summer is that flu and other illnesses that are prevalent in winter months will have reduced, freeing those resources for corona related cases.


Thank you that's it.. Even as I typed I thought that doesn't sound right


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> You are helping to flatten the curve. That's why as soon as you received the text you were supposed to not go outside.
> 
> The idea is protect the NHS.
> 
> It's probably inevitable we all get it, it will probably a worry for more than the 12 weeks but with those 12 weeks that should come heat which hypothetical should kill the virus. So the NHS, the government can prepare again.
> 
> Am sure no one wants to tell anyone stay inside and open a window for fresh air. I am sure some have completely ignored this advice too already. Which is a damn shame if they have when they are classed as the most extremely vulnerable and thought nipping to the shop is OK. They are the ones that are more likely to need the ventilators that are not available and making doctors having to make difficult decisions of who gets life support who does not.


i can assure you
other than monday, when i have no option ( ive already spoken to, and had the ok from police, for this journey)
I am staying indoors
bored faceless, 
but living and breathing
nonetheless
and
not being a burden to anyone, nhs or other


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> i can assure you
> other than monday, when i have no option ( ive already spoken to, and had the ok from police, for this journey)
> I am staying indoors
> bored faceless,
> but living and breathing
> nonetheless
> and
> not being a burden to anyone, nhs or other


Am sorry i wasn't talking to you personally. I did not realise you had been out.
Although I do find it kind of worrying the police couldn't help source some help from any of these volunteers that have come forward to help you in a time of need.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Am sorry i wasn't talking to you personally. I did not realise you had been out.
> Although I do find it kind of worrying the police couldn't help source some help from any of these volunteers that have come forward to help you in a time of need.


well i thought they were very offhand tbh
but i get that theyre overworked and understaffed
she did ask me if i thought the police had information the public didnt
as she could assure me that they didnt
I thought, personally, with talk of roadblocks and people being turned back
it was a reasonable ask
but as i said
ill excuse the attitude,
as im sure
i might have the same attitude when dealing with so many questions
that they just cant answer

i really feel for all our frontline services


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Am sorry i wasn't talking to you personally. I did not realise you had been out.
> Although I do find it kind of worrying the police couldn't help source some help from any of these volunteers that have come forward to help you in a time of need.


none of them have been 'passed' yet though
or have they?
i thought it was just in the recruitment phase


----------



## lullabydream

Just a heads up.. This is no reflection on what our government will do, or will not do but.. 

Ireland has just clamped down a little tighter. 

People can only go 2km from their own houses now. This is massive and will make life difficult for many people. I mean my towns small but that would mean not everyone could reach a supermarket easily. They may have access to a shop. There are quite a lot of other hard hitting guidelines too. 

Ireland currently hasn't many cases compared to here as far as I know. 

Its measures like this we do not want really, am thinking of those who run 5k a day, those who love to cycle. Those who travel to work. Let's hope people stick to travel guidelines this weekend or our lockdown might get worse


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Just a heads up.. This is no reflection on what our government will do, or will not do but..
> 
> Ireland has just clamped down a little tighter.
> 
> People can only go 2km from their own houses now. This is massive and will make life difficult for many people. I mean my towns small but that would mean not everyone could reach a supermarket easily. They may have access to a shop. There are quite a lot of other hard hitting guidelines too.
> 
> Ireland currently hasn't many cases compared to here as far as I know.
> 
> Its measures like this we do not want really, am thinking of those who run 5k a day, those who love to cycle. Those who travel to work. Let's hope people stick to travel guidelines this weekend or our lockdown might get worse


is that north or south?
musing aloud as south may be governed by brussels diktats,
rather than uk


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> is that north or south?
> musing aloud as south may be governed by brussels diktats,
> rather than uk


Ireland.. So southern


----------



## Psygon

Wow, 2km is not very far. 

I couldn't get to a shop, and no one delivers to my address from supermarkets.


----------



## Elles

lullabydream said:


> am sure some have completely ignored this advice too already.


I only know of one person who got the letter. They and their partner follow the instruction to the letter. Live in separate rooms, always at least 6ft apart, opening the window a crack to get fresh air.. and go out to walk the dogs every day, because it's good for their mental health..


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> Wow, 2km is not very far.
> 
> I couldn't get to a shop, and no one delivers to my address from supermarkets.


I think it just shocked my brother in law who I was talking too.. He said he was going to chill and have a couple of cans and that it will just be shopping tomorrow and not him and my sister.


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> is that north or south?
> musing aloud as south may be governed by brussels diktats,
> rather than uk


BBC news says republic of Ireland. It will also be really hard for people who need to care for livestock unless there are exceptions for this.


----------



## lorilu

We've just had our first local death due to Covid. No other details were given. We still have no testing, still, all tests have to be sent out and take 2-3 days for results. This is a rural community and it comes as a bit of a shock, since the reports of confirmed cases have only just started coming.


----------



## Psygon

kittih said:


> BBC news says republic of Ireland. It will also be really hard for people who need to care for livestock unless there are exceptions for this.


It did say farming was an exception. Think there were other things too.

From the guardian:
There are exceptions for farming, travel to and from work for essential work that cannot be done from home, caring for elderly or vulnerable people, and collecting medicine and attending medical appointments.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> none of them have been 'passed' yet though
> or have they?
> i thought it was just in the recruitment phase


Sorry I missed this.. My local council has a link to various helpers/charities that are helping the vulnerable currently at the moment.


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> It did say farming was an exception. Think there were other things too.
> 
> From the guardian:
> There are exceptions for farming, travel to and from work for essential work that cannot be done from home, caring for elderly or vulnerable people, and collecting medicine and attending medical appointments.


It's scary though.. If the UK follow a similar pathway.


----------



## Psygon

lullabydream said:


> It's scary though.. If the UK follow a similar pathway.


Yep, absolutely. I'm sure there would be consideration for people that are further away from shops than 2km. I hope that would be the case anyway.

I guess what happens over the next few days will be important - is the lockdown having an impact or do we need to do more.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> . and go out to walk the dogs every day, because it's good for their mental health..


If they are following the letter to then why are they walking the dog? The government are giving lots of advice on looking after the your mental health if you are one of the extremely vulnerable. You are not allowed in your own garden, using shielding in your own house away from loved ones which pretty means living separate lives but going out to walk the dogs seems absurd. They may as well not bothered with the rest and just carried on doing what they were doing as the rest of us


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> his twin Trump


 I would just LOVE to be a fly on the wall (or anywhere else, for that matter) if Trump manages to get the virus. He's been calling it ''Chinese flu'' thus far; if he catches it, God knows what he will call it . . . Yellow Peril?


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> These are the letters that are being sent the people the government want to shield. There was only 1.5m people they said so I think you do have to have quite a severe form of the illnesses they mention to get one.


Thank you Kim: my neighbour is 87 and says he's not had anything. (Tho' he may have had several and forgotten!).


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> Thank you Kim: my neighbour is 87 and says he's not had anything. (Tho' he may have had several and forgotten!).


He might not be in the extremely vulnerable category


----------



## MissKittyKat

I got up early to go to the supermarket as I can't go during the week. Ive come to the conclusion that people genuinely do not know what 2m looks like.

I kept getting looks whilst waiting at the end of the aisles where there was more space because the isle was too full.

I'm being extra cautious to protect others, as well as myself as I'm still at work.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> My goodness he's a gorgeous looking cat
> What breed is he?
> I would guess British blue but I've never seen that colouration/markings
> And
> Does he have those big scrummy Tom cat chops?


He's a silver spotted british shorthair


----------



## Happy Paws2

It's really strange now less people around than Christmas, yesterday afternoon went to the wheelie bin out the front and stood there for 5 mins to get some fresh air and I didn't see a soul, not even a car going past.


----------



## MilleD

Someone made the point about lack of consistency on Facebook. No wonder people get confused:


----------



## Elles

lullabydream said:


> If they are following the letter to then why are they walking the dog? The government are giving lots of advice on looking after the your mental health if you are one of the extremely vulnerable. You are not allowed in your own garden, using shielding in your own house away from loved ones which pretty means living separate lives but going out to walk the dogs seems absurd. They may as well not bothered with the rest and just carried on doing what they were doing as the rest of us


Yeah, following to the letter..... then walking the dog...

Exactly.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art... pangolins as hosts of Coronavirus transition

*Scales tip in favour of pangolins as hosts of Coronavirus 'transition'*


----------



## Jobeth

Edited


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

rona said:


> *"The use of public rights of way*
> NFU members have been concerned over the volume of people who have been flocking to the countryside in recent days. This is causing anxiety to our members, particularly if they have family members in at-risk groups. They see crowds of people in close proximity and many public rights of way (PROW) go through their farmyards and gardens.


My brother-in -law ended up shouting at families clogging up the footpaths round the farm - he keeps telling everyone it's not a flipping holiday. Locals have always walked there but now people think that they can drive into the village (or go on long circular walks) and wander across the fields.



Psygon said:


> It did say farming was an exception.


Absolutely. Farmers are key workers - without them the Tesco fruit and veg shelves and their dairy shevles and their meat shelves and their bread shelves would be considerably more empty than they are. It's all hands on deck atm.

J


----------



## kimthecat

I understand stay local but if you cant drive five or ten minutes to your local park to walk your dog which is your exercise ( older people )why is it all right for cyclists and runners to do that ? They can cycle and run for miles , do they get stopped. ?


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> I understand stay local but if you cant drive five or ten minutes to your local park to walk your dog which is your exercise ( older people )why is it all right for cyclists and runners to do that ? They can cycle and run for miles , do they get stopped. ?


Probably because cars need fuel and a lot more people are involved if there's an accident. plus how do they know if you're driving 1/4 mile or 400 miles? Plus, if everyone drove to the local park, or beauty spot, which they were. Haldon forest is a 5 minute drive for all the surrounding villages. That's a lot of people driving to Haldon. If they have to run there or cycle, it's far fewer in the forestry and not full car parks with people parking on the road and completely ignoring social distancing, which is how it was.


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2608726122706363


----------



## Elles

People don’t follow the rules, they think it doesn’t apply to them, or they’re fine, or it doesn’t hurt 22 year olds, or they’re better off in the park away from people, or who cares about old people anyway, or it’s sunny and the sun kills it, or it’s a conspiracy to bring in a police state, or turmeric cures everything.. etc etc. So here we are.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had a letter from the hospital to changing my appointment from May until the middle of August.


----------



## Siskin

For all Queen fans


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> I understand stay local but if you cant drive five or ten minutes to your local park to walk your dog which is your exercise ( older people )why is it all right for cyclists and runners to do that ? They can cycle and run for miles , do they get stopped. ?


Nooooooooo, don't stop my cycling!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Absolutely. *Farmers are key workers - without them the Tesco* fruit and veg shelves and their dairy shevles and their meat shelves and their bread shelves would be considerably more empty than they are. It's all hands on deck atm.
> 
> J


There are other supermarkets


----------



## kimthecat

No excuse not to do the Spring Cleaning ! :Meh


----------



## Calvine

MissKittyKat said:


> I got up early to go to the supermarket as I can't go during the week. Ive come to the conclusion that people genuinely do not know what 2m looks like.
> 
> I kept getting looks whilst waiting at the end of the aisles where there was more space because the isle was too full.
> 
> I'm being extra cautious to protect others, as well as myself as I'm still at work.


The shops here have put yellow tape at 6' intervals outside the shop where shoppers stand while in a queue, and have a member of staff letting people in only as people leave,


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> He might not be in the extremely vulnerable category


 I thought being over 70 (75?) meant you were automatically deemed ''vulnerable''.


----------



## MissKittyKat

MilleD said:


> He's a silver spotted british shorthair





Calvine said:


> The shops here have put yellow tape at 6' intervals outside the shop where shoppers stand while in a queue, and have a member of staff letting people in only as people leave,


They have here too and also at the checkout lines but it's the aisles and people not getting that's it's a 2m radius around you rather than just in front and behind.

I think everyone should start walking around inside hoola hoops but not sure they make them big enough!


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> I thought being over 70 (75?) meant you were automatically deemed ''vulnerable''.


He is but there is an extremely vulnerable category too which is those which are deemed even more vulnerable..

So it's all very confusing to be honest for some. 
The extremely vulnerable categorically was those deemed by GPS/consultants even more at risk. These passed those details on to the government.. So those not just with asthma who are vulnerable but those say with asthma such as brittle asthma, or asthma which is not under control and would be higher risk. Not that any one can predict or see into the future to be honest.


----------



## lullabydream

MissKittyKat said:


> They have here too and also at the checkout lines but it's the aisles and people not getting that's it's a 2m radius around you rather than just in front and behind.
> 
> I think everyone should start walking around inside hoola hoops but not sure they make them big enough!


Tesco have staff currently walking round reminding everyone to practise social distancing if that helps. Well that's what my local one is doing so I am presuming it's coming from the head office. 
I only know this because my son offered to go shopping and his friend has been drafted in to be 'social distancing police' as they have called it. Yes he did stop and talk to him very briefly. Hence why he knows.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> He is but there is an extremely vulnerable category too which is those which are deemed even more vulnerable..
> 
> So it's all very confusing to be honest for some.
> The extremely vulnerable categorically was those deemed by GPS/consultants even more at risk. These passed those details on to the government.. So those not just with asthma who are vulnerable but those say with asthma such as brittle asthma, or asthma which is not under control and would be higher risk. Not that any one can predict or see into the future to be honest.


I'm 80 but doubt I'd be considered more vulnerable because I have no pre-existing medical conditions nor do I take any medication. In fact my son who's in his mid 50's would probably be considered more vulnerable than I am, because he's a Type 1 Diabetic.


----------



## Magyarmum

MissKittyKat said:


> They have here too and also at the checkout lines but it's the aisles and people not getting that's it's a 2m radius around you rather than just in front and behind.
> 
> I think everyone should start walking around inside hoola hoops but not sure they make them big enough!


Something like this?




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=300193377620545


----------



## Calvine

Some of the shops are hardly big enough to practise the 6' gap . . . especially when the vultures have picked the shelves bare, it means the staff are constantly in the aisles with a huge container of items to restock. Also, if someone is standing looking at a shelf, unless you are clairvoyant, you have no idea in which direction they will head next. And the queue o/s M&S Food this morning was about a quarter of a mile long because of the gaps. This resulted in it coinciding with a queue outside a bakery further down the road, so there were pretty much two queues side by side.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> Some of the shops are hardly big enough to practise the 6' gap . . . especially when the vultures have picked the shelves bare, it means the staff are constantly in the aisles with a huge container of items to restock. Also, if someone is standing looking at a shelf, unless you are clairvoyant, you have no idea in which direction they will head next. And the queue o/s M&S Food this morning was about a quarter of a mile long because of the gaps. This resulted in it coinciding with a queue outside a bakery further down the road, so there were pretty much two queues side by side.


I don't see a lot of restocking happening here. I think that's because of the social distancing . Hence why shops have shorter hours to restock as throughly as they can.
Lidls is opening more tills as soon as possible and all shops are limiting number of shoppers here with supervising queues to help with social distancing. 
Our small bakers have closed here which is a shame as that could have taken pressure off the supermarkets. Same with some shops in spars around the county too, which I presume is helping with social distancing and helping allow people get around aisles. It's a shame as one village has a spar which has a butchers in and the butchers was used by many. The butchers has now closed.


----------



## catz4m8z

Honestly the road outside my house is just as busy as it normally is....who knew all those people were on essential journeys every day anyways!!?


----------



## MollySmith

The four challenges of disabled people by a friend of mine who introduces this video. I thought it well worth sharing.


----------



## O2.0

Was in Target (big chain store like Walmart) yesterday, it was later, and they had closed all check outs except the self check out. There have X taped to the floor to indicate the distance you should be from others in the line (queue). After each customer checks themselves out, an employee wipes down all the surfaces on the till. It took forever, but people were patient and pleasant. The gal wiping things off had a Santa hat on which I commented and laughed at (from an appropriate distance), she joked back with me and the gal in line in front of me joined in  

Times like these either bring out the best in folks or the worst. So far it seems the best is winning  

I went to see if there was any toilet paper. We're not out, but this is the point at which in normal life I would buy more. There was no toilet paper. 
I'm considering pee rags. Through hikers are familiar with the concept, basically a bandanna you use for that purpose only, it ties to your pack and airs out during the day. I do have a large stash of bandannas that I use for snot rags when running.....
I also grew up in places where the 'toilet paper' in the communal bathroom was an old phone book. Pages are very thin, they work. I also have old phone books. Guys, I was meant for these times!


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve just seen a neighbour’s daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That’s not allowed is it? I don’t want to report them or get involved but....


----------



## rona

rona said:


> Garages are on there but further down the list. My car is sick and at the garage now! Also due MOT


Phew, lovely garage man gave me back my car all fixed and MOT'd. I did wonder when I'd see it again


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I've just seen a neighbour's daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That's not allowed is it? I don't want to report them or get involved but....


Not allowed.

Look at post #2439 in this thread from an epidemiologist about just 'popping' to see someone.

Not intelligent at all.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> I've just seen a neighbour's daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That's not allowed is it? I don't want to report them or get involved but....


No it's not allowed as she is from another household, she could easily be bringing in coronavirus to her parents. She either stays there and continues to live with them or stop visiting, unless she is helping them as vulnerable adults.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MollySmith said:


> I've just seen a neighbour's daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That's not allowed is it? I don't want to report them or get involved but....


Is she providing care for them or bringing supplies if they aren't able to shop for themselves?


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> He is but there is an extremely vulnerable category too which is those which are deemed even more vulnerable..
> 
> So it's all very confusing to be honest for some.
> The extremely vulnerable categorically was those deemed by GPS/consultants even more at risk. These passed those details on to the government.. So those not just with asthma who are vulnerable but those say with asthma such as brittle asthma, or asthma which is not under control and would be higher risk. Not that any one can predict or see into the future to be honest.


I''ve just seen this in the Worldometer Coronavirus lives update website which might help clarify. It gives a table (which unfortunately won't copy as a table only as a list.) which gives the percentage of people with specific medical conditions who died from the virus. You can find it at the end of the article

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

*Pre-existing medical conditions (comorbidities)*
Patients who reported no pre-existing ("comorbid") medical conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%. Pre-existing illnesses that put patients at higher risk of dying from a COVID-19 infection are:

*COVID-19 Fatality Rate by COMORBIDITY:*
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on pre-existing condition. The percentage shown below does NOT represent in any way the share of deaths by pre-existing condition. Rather, it represents, for a patient with a given pre-existing condition, the risk of dying if infected by COVID-19.


----------



## kimthecat

Oh went into our local shop and got bread and cake ! etc . We've know them for years and they let him buy two lots of bread and milk for my sister.
They are having trouble getting supplies from cash and carrys , they have to drive around to several every day . We really appreciate that they are open ,

neighbour went to our shopping centre , to iceland , the people in q were standing 6 feet behind each other , it was so long it met up with the marks and Sparks q coming round the corner !


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Not allowed.
> 
> Look at post #2439 in this thread from an epidemiologist about just 'popping' to see someone.
> 
> Not intelligent at all.


I was certain it was but thanks for clarity.



Siskin said:


> No it's not allowed as she is from another household, she could easily be bringing in coronavirus to her parents. She either stays there and continues to live with them or stop visiting, unless she is helping them as vulnerable adults.


We've had people offering help in the street so there isn't really any need that I can tell. He is elderly so yes, she could pass it on as she doesn't live there.



3dogs2cats said:


> Is she providing care for them or bringing supplies if they aren't able to shop for themselves?


I thought she would have to leave them on the step but she's inside the house.

I simply don't know where to report it or even how to broach it safely. That's the trouble, usually I'd knock on neighbours doors - he lost his wife a few years ago but I've seen him out. As far as we could tell she wasn't bringing him shopping. But there's no easy way of tackling it with social distancing. Comic book guy next door is all up for passive aggressive note on the car. I might keep a gentle eye out and ask if her dad's okay from our front door.... sort of say she's no need to break self isolation and put them both at risk, I can get his shopping or something.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I've just seen a neighbour's daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That's not allowed is it? I don't want to report them or get involved but....


Grandparents have just visited the family opposite.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Grandparents have just visited the family opposite.


:Sorry It's madness,


----------



## rona

Honestly, if they even stepped foot into a Corvid ward they'd never go near anyone again :Rage

One of My OH's sisters is having to live apart from her new husband because he is working with those patients. Poor chap, is exhausted and traumatised and living on his own 
OH has sent him a little gift this morning with a message attached, thanking him for all he's doing. He's into his computer games and it must help to take his mind off it. There's a new one out that he really wants


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MollySmith said:


> I was certain it was but thanks for clarity.
> 
> We've had people offering help in the street so there isn't really any need that I can tell. He is elderly so yes, she could pass it on as she doesn't live there.
> 
> I thought she would have to leave them on the step but she's inside the house.
> 
> I simply don't know where to report it or even how to broach it safely. That's the trouble, usually I'd knock on neighbours doors - he lost his wife a few years ago but I've seen him out. As far as we could tell she wasn't bringing him shopping. But there's no easy way of tackling it with social distancing. Comic book guy next door is all up for passive aggressive note on the car. I might keep a gentle eye out and ask if her dad's okay from our front door.... sort of say she's no need to break self isolation and put them both at risk, I can get his shopping or something.


 So she is self isolating? If that's the case I didn't think you were supposed to go out at all. If she isn't self isolating then she is ok to visit to provide care, potentially she assists on showering him on Saturdays, does his washing, checks his medication, ensures his food isn't out of date etc. Without asking exactly what she is doing you wont know so as you say your best bet is ask.


----------



## margy

Last Sunday all the family arrived at my neighbours house for lunch as they do every Sunday, even then we were being told we shouldn't have visitors. It will be interesting to see if they got the message and turn up tomorrow. Neighbours are in their seventies.


----------



## Psygon

I've been putting off going for an eye test for a while.. like almost a year. Up until recently my glasses have been fine and I just didn't think I needed the eye test. 

Roll forward to now and I've been having headaches on and off for about a month. Nothing serious but I think it's due to eye strain. This has happened to me in the past too. My husband has said he's noticed me squinting when reading etc (I have a bad astigmatism).

I now think I do need that eye test, but for obvious reasons can't have one. In fact just the idea of being up close to someone for an eye test makes me feel quite anxious. 

I hope my eyes can hang on a bit longer.


----------



## rona

New death toll is horrendous


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> New death toll is horrendous


OMG


----------



## MollySmith

When I think about all the efforts we are making, seemingly collectively it's infuriating.


3dogs2cats said:


> So she is self isolating? If that's the case I didn't think you were supposed to go out at all. If she isn't self isolating then she is ok to visit to provide care, potentially she assists on showering him on Saturdays, does his washing, checks his medication, ensures his food isn't out of date etc. Without asking exactly what she is doing you wont know so as you say your best bet is ask.


He's a very able elderly, drives and walks often so not infirm. She has two dogs that are with her so I can't imagine she is completely isolating if she's walking them. Anyway, loathe to jump to conclusions or act like my next door neighbour, comic book guy. It is always best to check as there are a lot of resources she may not know about.

It reminds me of a book I read a while back about a community in the WW2 and the secrets and lies of a street!


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> New death toll is horrendous


We aren't meant to be at the peak yet. Scary, really scary. Sounds awful but I guess the effects of the lockdown aren't yet through. We've been isolating since we got back from Scotland and luckily the holiday was isolated anyway, and that was 2 weeks ago.

How is your friend coping, rona?


----------



## Dave S

MollySmith said:


> I've just seen a neighbour's daughter visit as she does every Saturday. That's not allowed is it? I don't want to report them or get involved but....


To be honest the person may have been the elderly persons sole carer even though they were related.
If I was that person I would be most upset and insulted if someone "reported" me for going there. 
(Who would/could you report them to)
What alternatives would you provide.

I say that because I am my mothers carer, she is 90 years old and lives independently in a sheltered accommodation flat and has age related symptoms.

I used to go in every day as I would be usually the only person she would see, however since this virus I do not go in very often.

When I do I bring in her shopping (so I am seen going in with something), Fridays I go in (empty handed) and take her laundry to the on-site laundrette and pay any bills at the local shops. Saturday I go in, (again empty handed) and sort her tablets out for the week. At any visit I also help her with her housework.

If someone "reported" me and I was then unable to carry these tasks out, who do you think would look after her?

Surely if the alternative in your instance is either you or his daughter then there is no difference as neither of you are in the same household. If you were to do his shopping etc then you would be putting yourself at risk.

Incidentally I am collecting her on Tuesday morning for a doctors appointment to have a blood test due to some of the tablets she is taking, I asked the receptionist if it needs and she asked a doctor before saying yes.

What else am I supposed to do. She is a widow of many years and cannot go to the shops, so anyone who goes in to her is not in her household. 
I do not go out except for exercise and I am constantly washing my hands etc.


----------



## Dave S

deleted as posted x2


----------



## Psygon

rona said:


> New death toll is horrendous


Wow :-(

I guess watching what's happened in other countries it was expected that similar would happen here. But seeing the numbers is just scary :-(


----------



## Magyarmum

My nearest city on Friday evening thanking all the health care workers and first responders




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=227879108592248


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> To be honest the person may have been the elderly persons sole carer even though they were related.
> If I was that person I would be most upset and insulted if someone "reported" me for going there.
> (Who would/could you report them to)
> What alternatives would you provide.
> 
> I say that because I am my mothers carer, she is 90 years old and lives independently in a sheltered accommodation flat and has age related symptoms.
> 
> I used to go in every day as I would be usually the only person she would see, however since this virus I do not go in very often.
> 
> When I do I bring in her shopping (so I am seen going in with something), Fridays I go in (empty handed) and take her laundry to the on-site laundrette and pay any bills at the local shops. Saturday I go in, (again empty handed) and sort her tablets out for the week. At any visit I also help her with her housework.
> 
> If someone "reported" me and I was then unable to carry these tasks out, who do you think would look after her?
> 
> Surely if the alternative in your instance is either you or his daughter then there is no difference as neither of you are in the same household. If you were to do his shopping etc then you would be putting yourself at risk.
> 
> Incidentally I am collecting her on Tuesday morning for a doctors appointment to have a blood test due to some of the tablets she is taking, I asked the receptionist if it needs and she asked a doctor before saying yes.
> 
> What else am I supposed to do. She is a widow of many years and cannot go to the shops, so anyone who goes in to her is not in her household.
> I do not go out except for exercise and I am constantly washing my hands etc.





Dave S said:


> deleted as posted x2


In case the thread takes off as I can see your post is liked, I have posted since, to save @SusieRainbow any work. Reported maybe the wrong word but best I can think of at the time. As I said on those threads, if I see her, I'll check her dad has all he needs and see if she needs any details of resources locally as she does not live here.

I'm in a similar position for a friend with vasculitis who has a crashed immune system and no family at all here. It's very tricky. Sending you best wishes in looking after your mum.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> We aren't meant to be at the peak yet. Scary, really scary. Sounds awful but I guess the effects of the lockdown aren't yet through. We've been isolating since we got back from Scotland and luckily the holiday was isolated anyway, and that was 2 weeks ago.
> 
> How is your friend coping, rona?


We've been told the peak in Hungary won't be until June.:Arghh


----------



## Dave S

MollySmith, I hope this thread does not take off again (like last night) but I would rather look after my own mother than let anyone else do so.
I also have a 10 week old and 4.5 years old grand daughter (I have posted pics in another thread) so I am not going to risk anything if I can help it but what else can I do.

My sons will contact her by phone, same as my brother (he lives a long way away and is not well himself).

It's not about likes, I think it's about trying to do the right thing. And I am sure @SusieRainbow has got better things to do than wield her big delete stick at any of us.

Respect to you though for caring and take care yourself.


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> MollySmith, I hope this thread does not take off again (like last night) but I would rather look after my own mother than let anyone else do so.
> I also have a 10 week old and 4.5 years old grand daughter (I have posted pics in another thread) so I am not going to risk anything if I can help it but what else can I do.
> 
> My sons will contact her by phone, same as my brother (he lives a long way away and is not well himself).
> 
> It's not about likes, I think it's about trying to do the right thing. And I am sure @SusieRainbow has got better things to do than wield her big delete stick at any of us.
> 
> Respect to you though for caring and take care yourself.


I hope nothing does take off either, we've all got this worry on top of others. I'm conscious that there are a few people here I have clashed with... 

For me, it's just me and my husband but I'm also part of a network of counsellors for people who can't have children such as miscarriage and loss, and we are overwhelmed by communication from people whose fertility treatment has stopped. It's that old saying, walk a mile in my shoes. We are joined in our fears but also have unique lives that impact on our reactions. I've been desperately worried about our dog if we both got it.

It sounds awful to say, but I lost my grandma in October aged 96, and I'm somewhat grateful she didn't haven't to go through this.

Stay safe and well, and take care of you. Your posts have been lovely to read, I especially enjoyed your nice post a week ago about your garden, it calmed me down on a day I was feeling anxious.


----------



## Dave S

O2.0 said:


> I also grew up in places where the 'toilet paper' in the communal bathroom was an old phone book. Pages are very thin, they work. I also have old phone books.


We call it "The Daily Mail" here LOL


----------



## Dave S

MollySmith said:


> I'm also part of a network of counsellors for people who can't have children such as miscarriage and loss,


Interesting to know Molly. I was a Samaritan listener for quite a few years and retired from it about 4 years ago due to life pressures and I was burnt out. I wonder if they would call back past volunteers - not sure if I would go back though.


----------



## rona

MollySmith said:


> We aren't meant to be at the peak yet. Scary, really scary. Sounds awful but I guess the effects of the lockdown aren't yet through. We've been isolating since we got back from Scotland and luckily the holiday was isolated anyway, and that was 2 weeks ago.
> 
> How is your friend coping, rona?


A minister, I can't remember who now, said this morning that the peak wouldn't be for 2-3 weeks from lock down, so could rise every day until then 

Friend is ok thanks. He's being very careful but not staying in, staying well away from others but as he only has another 5 months, according to his oncologist, when he will be mobile He feels he can't afford to waste it, and it's worth the extra risk to him.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Maybe this is a good time to remind everyone to be respectful of each other's views and concerns - not saying you aren't being ,but rather saying there's a time and place for letting some posts slip off the page.
It's such a difficult and worrying topic and great that we're all here for each other.


----------



## willa

Surely if the peak is about 3 weeks time that means the virus will be over sooner & deaths will be less ?

Hell of a lot quicker than the original 3 months till peak we were originally told


----------



## Nonnie

Apparently, if we have under 20,000 deaths, we will have 'done well'.


----------



## Dave S

Susie, if I have upset or offended anyone by my comments then I am truly sorry, it was not intentional.


----------



## willa

Nonnie said:


> Apparently, if we have under 20,000 deaths, we will have 'done well'.


Yes just heard that in the press conference. Not a comment I thought I'd ever hear !!!


----------



## Dave S

20,000 deaths is a tragedy and to put it into context, can you imagine driving into a small town - Berkhamsted, Biggleswade, Tiverton, West Bromwich (East) etc and there is nobody around. These towns have that population.

Scary to say the least.


----------



## willa

All these deaths now will be people infected few weeks back. So will be sometime before we start to see zany benefit of this lockdown.

I do wonder when schools will reopen,


----------



## Jaf

The temporary hospital at ExCeL is quickly being fitted out. I am pleased that they are putting privacy screens in but it still looks like a field hospital.


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> 20,000 deaths is a tragedy and to put it into context, can you imagine driving into a small town - Berkhamsted, Biggleswade, Tiverton, West Bromwich (East) etc and there is nobody around. These towns have that population.
> 
> Scary to say the least.


our market town has around 12000, it seems so overcrowded to anyone whose lived here a long time ( me, 40yrs and another 5 before that for going to school)
to imagine it as a ghost town, is unthinkable


----------



## Nonnie

Another thing finally being highlighted is physical health - smokers, drinkers, high blood pressure, high cholesterol etc make you 5 times more likely to struggle with the virus, and potentially put your life at risk.

Eat well and exercise!


----------



## Magyarmum

I was working in a hospital in KwaZulu-Natal during the AIDS epidemic. Our hospital alone was diagnosing 100 new cases a week, deaths in the hospital alone were at least 30 per week and we had wards full of dying adults, children and most heart rending of all, babies! There were whole families and villages decimated by the disease and more than one grandmother trying to care for as many as 11 young grandchildren on a tiny pensions.

As with the Coronavirus, at the time no one knew exactly how HIV was transmitted. Could you be infected by touching someone, by them sneezing next to you or by drinking out of a cup used by an infected person? The only thing one could do was to assume everyone you came into contact with was infected.

I'm going through a feeling of "deja vu"


----------



## Elles

I’m having to leave some groups, the fake news, nastiness and conspiracy theories are so rife, they’re raising my blood pressure.  :Stop


----------



## Jesthar

Jaf said:


> The temporary hospital at ExCeL is quickly being fitted out. I am pleased that they are putting privacy screens in but it still looks like a field hospital.


That's because it IS a field hospital in official/technical terms - just means it's not a permanent installation. There's one going up in the NEC at Birmingham too - my relatives are NHS doctors in that region and freely refer to it as a field hospital.


----------



## Elles

Have you seen South Africa's lockdown? They're shooting at people with rubber bullets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-52047374


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Have you seen South Africa's lockdown? They're shooting at people with rubber bullets.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-52047374


to be fair i think a lot of the going out and social gatherings 
could be avoided if BJ banned alcohol altogether
especially among the young invincibles


----------



## lorilu

The problem with sweeping "no alcohol" regulations is the alcoholics. Alcohol withdrawal can be very serious. I worry about my sister, should she not be able to get any alcohol, as all this goes on. She did go through it once before when she had the flu and was too ill to go out, she told me about it after it happened. I still don't know if she realizes what happened to her that time. It was quite a few years ago. I try NOT to worry, because it isn't anything I can control or help her with, (she doesn't live near me) and my resolve these days is to not worry about things I have no control over. Easier said than done I am sure we can all agree.


----------



## Jesthar

And just in case anyone still doubts the kind of level of STUPID we are up against...










Needless to say, the authorities are NOT happy, the area is being patrolled, and the organisers are in the doo-doo...


----------



## Cully

Speechless!


----------



## mrs phas

lorilu said:


> The problem with sweeping "no alcohol" regulations is the alcoholics. Alcohol withdrawal can be very serious. I worry about my sister, should she not be able to get any alcohol, as all this goes on. She did go through it once before when she had the flu and was too ill to go out, she told me about it after it happened. I still don't know if she realizes what happened to her that time. It was quite a few years ago. I try NOT to worry, because it isn't anything I can control or help her with, (she doesn't live near me) and my resolve these days is to not worry about things I have no control over. Easier said than done I am sure we can all agree.


Alkies always find some way to feed the habit
A habit that, imo, is more dangerous than any illegal drugs, because it is legal and is cheap to keep the high going


----------



## Rafa

Alkies?


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Alkies always find some way to feed the habit
> A habit that, imo, is more dangerous than any illegal drugs, because it is legal and is cheap to keep the high going


It's an addiction and yes it's probably cheap I don't know the price but to ban it totally in a pandemic would put a lot of strain on the NHS.


----------



## Sacrechat

Rafa said:


> Alkies?


Alcoholics.


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> It's an addiction and yes it's probably cheap I don't know the price but to ban it totally in a pandemic would put a lot of strain on the NHS.


Yes, on any health care system. Most families do have it somewhere along the line. My youngest and oldest sister are alcoholics. My youngest sister isn't alone though.

My older sister (63) is alone. If she went into withdrawal who would know? And now, as she isn't working, she will be drinking all day, not just at night after work. At least during normal life she spent 10 -12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week not drinking. (retail manager of a shoe store) My main concern now is to stay in contact with her on a daily basis, at least one message a day. I can't bring up my concerns as that would (based on experience and previous efforts) cause her to withdraw from me all together.

I don't drink at all, for fear of the disease. Another sister, also younger than I am, whom I hike regularly with, does drink in the evening, and we talk often about it and if it might happen to her. She said she starts to worry, then stops, periodically, then finds herself drifting back into the habit. I think my older brother has stopped drinking as well now. (we are all late 50s, early 60s)

Our maternal grandfather was an alcoholic (I only found that out recently, after my mother died) also, and it is present on our father's side too, not him, but his father. and mother both were alcoholics, which I have known for years. Our mother did not drink.

Anyway, back on topic, in the US at least, that is probably why liquor stores have remained open as essential businesses.


----------



## kimthecat

@Siskin Not sure what thread I posted in but I said my sister had a regular slot with tescos and they were still delivering . I got it wrong. Thats incorrect  She got lucky !

Our off licence is open. They sell goods as well .


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> Yes, on any health care system. Most families do have it somewhere along the line. My youngest and oldest sister are alcoholics. My youngest sister isn't alone though (and has estranged herself from me anyway).
> 
> My older sister (63) is alone. If she went into withdrawal who would know? And now, as she isn't working, she will be drinking all day, not just at night after work. At least during normal life she spent 10 -12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week not drinking. (retail manager of a shoe store) My main concern now is to stay in contact with her on a daily basis, at least one message a day. I can't bring up my concerns as that would (based on experience and previous efforts) cause her to withdraw from me all together.
> 
> I don't drink at all, for fear of the disease. Another sister, also younger than I am, whom I hike regularly with, does drink in the evening, and we talk often about it and if it might happen to her. She said she starts to worry, then stops, periodically, then finds herself drifting back into the habit. I think my older brother has stopped drinking as well now. (we are all late 50s, early 60s)
> 
> Our maternal grandfather was an alcoholic (I only found that out recently, after my mother died) also, and it is present on our father's side too, not him, but his father. and mother both were alcoholics, which I have known for years. Our mother did not drink.
> 
> Anyway, back on topic, in the US at least, that is probably why liquor stores have remained open as essential businesses.


It's a rife problem in my OHs family sadly. We don't drink. My sons have an occasional drink.

My friends step mum is an alcoholic who has been admitted to hospital several times. In hospital they really help with giving her medication. The nurses see a different person leave from the one that arrives but sadly no resources to keep her in long term so it's back to drinking as normal when home. However some days or even weeks she can drink just enough to keep everything ticking if that makes sense.

As you say why liquor stores stay open, probably why the UK equivalent off licence is classed as essential too.


----------



## mrs phas

I'm sorry if I triggered anyone by stating what I believe
Alcoholism is a dangerous and insidious addiction, and I wouldn't want to make anyone feel bad, just because of my thoughts
X


----------



## willa

So Boris Johnson is writing a letter so every household next week.
Isn’t that a cause if infection, he has the virus. Maybe I’m being too paranoid


----------



## mrs phas

willa said:


> So Boris Johnson is writing a letter so every household next week.
> Isn't that a cause if infection, he has the virus. Maybe I'm being too paranoid


You really think he is handwriting every single letter??
Bless your heart
He will dictate it, the secretary will type it up, it will then be printed and, the, whatever they do now instead of photocopying
Then sent automatically


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> So Boris Johnson is writing a letter so every household next week.


saying what??:Bored


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> saying what??:Bored


Wash your hands for 20 seconds


----------



## Jesthar

SbanR said:


> Wash your hands for 20 seconds


Nothing that will be worth the paper it's printed on, I'm sure...


----------



## Jaf

Jesthar said:


> That's because it IS a field hospital in official/technical terms - just means it's not a permanent installation. There's one going up in the NEC at Birmingham too - my relatives are NHS doctors in that region and freely refer to it as a field hospital.


It's so sad. I suppose all those patients will be alone, no visitors allowed. Still, looks better than the field hospital in Madrid, no screens there.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> It's so sad. I suppose all those patients will be alone, no visitors allowed. Still, looks better than the field hospital in Madrid, no screens there.


No screens in STATE hospitals in Hungary let alone field hospitals and we have 5 or 6 beds per ward. No set visiting hours so long as you don't arrive before 10 am or after 9 pm, but at least the nurses do shoo visitors out of the ward if they're going to treat a patient


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> saying what??:Bored


If you run short of loo roll 
Here's a sheet to help you out


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Honestly the road outside my house is just as busy as it normally is


 That is amazing. The road near me is really busy normally but now you can just walk across without using the pedestrian lights.


----------



## Calvine

Psygon said:


> I've been putting off going for an eye test for a while.. like almost a year. Up until recently my glasses have been fine and I just didn't think I needed the eye test.
> 
> Roll forward to now and I've been having headaches on and off for about a month. Nothing serious but I think it's due to eye strain. This has happened to me in the past too. My husband has said he's noticed me squinting when reading etc (I have a bad astigmatism).
> 
> I now think I do need that eye test, but for obvious reasons can't have one. In fact just the idea of being up close to someone for an eye test makes me feel quite anxious.
> 
> I hope my eyes can hang on a bit longer.


 Me too. My distance glasses conveniently fell apart on the day they announced ''lockdown''. Very handy!


----------



## Magyarmum

An informative article from Nat Geo

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...20200327&rid=0D3964D560DFC60357F823E3F801EF47

*What scientists do and don't know about treating coronavirus*
*Six leading physicians explain what we know so far about treating COVID-19 in the emergency room and at home.*


----------



## rona

Dr Katherine Henderson President of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine on the Andrew Marr show. If you can watch it please do. It counters quite a bit of the press scaremongering.

I just hope she is right


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=650883722355369


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> Dr Katherine Henderson President of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine on the Andrew Marr show. If you can watch it please do. It counters quite a bit of the press scaremongering.
> 
> I just hope she is right


I think if we carry on treating things like a worst case scenario then we might just come out of it better then expected. From the polls Ive seen though it seems most people are on board with the extreme measures and understand the reasons why.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> I think if we carry on treating things like a worst case scenario then we might just come out of it better then expected. From the polls Ive seen though it seems most people are on board with the extreme measures and understand the reasons why.


She was talking about the NHS and how prepared they are not questioning anything about lockdown, she in fact reiterated the need for those measures


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> I think if we carry on treating things like a worst case scenario then we might just come out of it better then expected. From the polls Ive seen though it seems most people are on board with the extreme measures and understand the reasons why.


 I'm doing what I did during the AIDS epidemic in South Africa, which is, assuming EVERYONE is infected with the virus


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> She was talking about the NHS and how prepared they are not questioning anything about lockdown, she in fact reiterated the need for those measures


surely the 2 things are connected though? If enough people get ill at the same time it will overwhelm the NHS. At the moment we seem to be staying just ahead of the crisis (at least in my hospital....although London is having a really rough time.)


----------



## Happy Paws2

Do you think spending £5.8 million on spending letters out to every home is a waste of money, when it could be spend on the NHS.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> Do you think spending £5.8 million on spending letters out to every home is a waste of money, when it could be spend on the NHS.


Personally I think it's justifiable.
If it makes just a few of these cretins who are flouting the rules realise it means *them too* it's worth it surely ? I think it will have more impact than any number of TV broadcasts , the GBP might just take notice of individual letters.
Lets hope so anyway.


----------



## Sacrechat

SusieRainbow said:


> Personally I think it's justifiable.
> If it makes just a few of these cretins who are flouting the rules realise it means *them too* it's worth it surely ? I think it will have more impact than any number of TV broadcasts , the GBP might just take notice of individual letters.
> Lets hope so anyway.


Tbh, I'm not convinced anything will work with many of these cretins, who flout the rules. They would need a brain for that and they appear to be sharing a single brain cell.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> Personally I think it's justifiable.
> If it makes just a few of these cretins who are flouting the rules realise it means *them too* it's worth it surely ? I think it will have more impact than any number of TV broadcasts , the GBP might just take notice of individual letters.
> Lets hope so anyway.


If they haven't got the message by now, I don't think a letter will make any difference to them, it will probably in up in the bin.


----------



## lullabydream

You will always get those that don't listen.. Some might heed the advice though because people seem to not understand. I don't believe it's the letter it self that will do good per se but the additional information that comes with it which is more important. 
Yes people will see it and bin it.. But the hope is, times where more people are sat twiddling their thumbs that they might pick up the leaflets, have a browse put leaflet down.. Pick it up again later re look through. That's how most information will go in, and that's how most information leaflets work anyway. Keep them handy to read through. Most people flick, read through more than once.


----------



## Cully

A lot of the rules are still confusing some people so it will be good if the letter helps to clarify it all. People want to comply, but unsure exactly what they need to do. Anything that makes it easier to understand has got to be helpful. 
The cretins will be cretins even if the rules were tattooed on there foreheads. Almost didn't put forehead but managed to restrain myself (pat on own back).


----------



## Siskin

There was a print of the letter to be sent in the paper today. One thing I noticed is there has been a word change as follows

‘People should stay indoors’

To

‘People must stay indoors’

I’ve thought right from the start of the lockdown the word ‘must’ should have been used rather then ‘should’ as it just about gives an element of doubt whether you should or shouldn’t stay in to certain stupid people.


----------



## lullabydream

I thought this was quite good from Simon Pegg from the other day.. If people are offended by swearing please do not watch


----------



## mrs phas

Some of the bridges are a bit of a stretch
But this is one of the best parodies so far


----------



## MollySmith

I thought I’d very briefly update on my neighbour. I managed to catch his daughter. He is fine (as much as one can be in the circumstances), she was popping in because it’s what she always, every weekend, does to stop and didn't really understand what was wrong. To her it was an essential trip. Sometimes there isn’t any way to explain it. I fear she’s in need of the letter.


----------



## MollySmith

Hero but so sad that our health service is crowdfunding 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-257000-to-nhs-medics-ppe-crowdfunding-appeal


----------



## MilleD

Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.

It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.

Feel awful


----------



## JoanneF

MilleD said:


> Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.
> 
> It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.
> 
> Feel awful


I feel like I ought to clean all the kitchen cupboards but I really don't want to. I guess at some stage there will be a tipping point where the drive to clean will exceed the drive to watch daytime tv.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.
> 
> It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.
> 
> Feel awful


I can't quite believe it's been less than a week in lockdown, and to be honest for me it's not much different because I don't officially work currently. I can't nip over the road for my quick cuppas though and a chat.

I think since the panic buying the surreal wtf moments anyway in shops it's been feeling all a bit odd though.

Am a lot lacking in motivation and what to do though, even though I normally would keep myself just busy housework, here, and stuff with the dogs


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.
> 
> It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.
> 
> Feel awful


You need to organize PF to do something all together and then discuss it.
Maybe a fitness video that also takes into account those that have restrictions 
Or read an article then discuss. You could ask what subject most would prefer


----------



## catz4m8z

I never normally go out after Ive walked the dogs anyways but something about being told Im not allowed to just makes me feel like I really, really wanna!:Shifty
:Shy


----------



## Sacrechat

This is what we are up against! Stupidity reigns supreme:


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.
> 
> It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.
> 
> Feel awful


I have - luckily - work in for my business and the University need me for an extra day but I'm lacking focus and doing a brilliant job in procrastinating. Could win awards for it. I think be kind to yourself about this, it's one thing to be at home and relaxing by choice, and another feeling altogether when it's enforced. It is only week 1 and hopefully we will adjust - I say with optimism...


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Is anyone else going stir crazy? It's only the first week and I don't know what to do with myself.
> 
> It's not like I don't have things to do either, just can't settle to anything and keep ending up pacing rooms.
> 
> Feel awful


i thought the next 12 weeks ( bar tomorrow) i could realy deep spring clean
but today
i just want to sleep
ive done absolutely nothing but sit with this infernal thing on my lap 
and
nod on and off
and im so tired that i cba to cook for myself
can i go to bed at 7.30?
is it really too early?


----------



## MollySmith

Sacremist said:


> This is what we are up against! Stupidity reigns supreme:


Very much like the daughter of my neighbour. It's not sinking in.


----------



## rona

Sacremist said:


> This is what we are up against! Stupidity reigns supreme:


Stunning isn't it?


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> can i go to bed at 7.30?
> is it really too early?


I go to bed when my body tells me. Sometimes it's 10-11pm other times it's 4pm. In fact I went to bed at 3.30pm the other day, got up at 8pm, then slept again at 1am. 
If there's no structure to life, then why not.
At least when you are asleep you are free


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> This is what we are up against! Stupidity reigns supreme:


Haven't listened to it as I think it's the one I picked up on a few days ago from FB, I take its the Chris women who thinks its a load of nonsense and doesn't care if she dies. Doesn't seem to be able to process all the dozens of other people she may infect who probably don't want to die


----------



## Magyarmum

It's my 11 th day and I'm perfectly happy being alone!

My drunken neighbour came round this morning wanting to work in the veggie garden. Told him to go away as I didn't want to be disturbed.

I've got to go out sometime during the week to do some shopping and know I'll have to force myself into going.

I always have been a loner and am quite happy to make my own amusement - not that it's difficult having two Schnauzer boys, one of whom is as mad as a hatter


----------



## Sacrechat

rona said:


> Stunning isn't it?


The mind boggles!


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> Haven't listened to it as I think it's the one I picked up on a few days ago from FB, I take its the Chris women who thinks its a load of nonsense and doesn't care if she dies. Doesn't seem to be able to process all the dozens of other people she may infect who probably don't want to die


Yes, it is the woman named Chris. There are no words to describe her level of ignorance. I just want to smash in her face.


----------



## MollySmith

Sacremist said:


> Yes, it is the woman named Chris. There are no words to describe her level of ignorance. I just want to smash in her face.


There is a bleak irony that she's down the cemetery. It's one thing to not trust Boris, but to willingly defy science, police..... the other authorities is breathtakingly stupid. Even if I was so selfish and gormless, I'd hope someone in my family see sense for me. I hope someone listening knows her and did this.


----------



## willa

Day 5 of total isolation in London,not even going outside, can’t risk it.
Feeling very lonely and just want to go home to my parents In countryside (all my family are staying there ) Unless I come down with symptoms I’ll be going home Wednesday. Have to have a week first Incase any symptoms pop up.

I know this is nothing compared to many people, but all this is horrid. Making my general anxiety terrible, now switched to weekly FaceTime session with my therapist


----------



## canuckjill

I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


----------



## Sacrechat

MollySmith said:


> There is a bleak irony that she's down the cemetery. It's one thing to not trust Boris, but to willingly defy science, police..... the other authorities is breathtakingly stupid. Even if I was so selfish and gormless, I'd hope someone in my family see sense for me. I hope someone listening knows her and did this.


If not her family, then hopefully the police and I hope they issue a fine.


----------



## willa

canuckjill said:


> I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


Sorry to hear that. I hope you manage to have the surgery & it goes well


----------



## MilleD

JoanneF said:


> I feel like I ought to clean all the kitchen cupboards but I really don't want to. I guess at some stage there will be a tipping point where the drive to clean will exceed the drive to watch daytime tv.


I can't even be bothered to watch the telly. That's when I know the lethargy has set in for sure.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I can't quite believe it's been less than a week in lockdown, and to be honest for me it's not much different because I don't officially work currently. I can't nip over the road for my quick cuppas though and a chat.
> 
> I think since the panic buying the surreal wtf moments anyway in shops it's been feeling all a bit odd though.
> 
> Am a lot lacking in motivation and what to do though, even though I normally would keep myself just busy housework, here, and stuff with the dogs


The lack of motivation is something else. I hate feeling like this. We've even got in paint to be able to do the lounge, started it a couple of weeks ago, but just can't be bothered with anything....


----------



## willa

MilleD said:


> I can't even be bothered to watch the telly. That's when I know the lethargy has set in for sure.


My energy has totally gone. Slopped around in my pyjamas past few days. Can't be bothered to do anything


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> You need to organize PF to do something all together and then discuss it.
> Maybe a fitness video that also takes into account those that have restrictions
> Or read an article then discuss. You could ask what subject most would prefer


It sounds like a good idea, but I really can't be arsed. This is terrible.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I have - luckily - work in for my business and the University need me for an extra day but I'm lacking focus and doing a brilliant job in procrastinating. Could win awards for it. I think be kind to yourself about this, it's one thing to be at home and relaxing by choice, and another feeling altogether when it's enforced. It is only week 1 and hopefully we will adjust - I say with optimism...


I'm working from home so at least I'll have something to do tomorrow, I'm trying not to log on at the weekends so time still has some structure, but that may go out if the window.

I hope the lethargy eases to be able to work in the morning


----------



## Siskin

canuckjill said:


> I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


How worrying all this is for you, do hope your surgery goes ahead in April and is successful. I'm currently having radiotherapy and the forward planning is for an operation to remove the lump in my thigh early June. Dreading something is going to go wrong


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> i thought the next 12 weeks ( bar tomorrow) i could realy deep spring clean
> but today
> i just want to sleep
> ive done absolutely nothing but sit with this infernal thing on my lap
> and
> nod on and off
> and im so tired that i cba to cook for myself
> can i go to bed at 7.30?
> is it really too early?


It's not, bit need to make sure it's not a symptom of something I guess. I felt yesterday like I just wanted to go to sleep, but managed to fight it.

Also drinking too much wine. Just for something to do which isn't good.

Couldn't even be bothered to go cycling today, which really isn't good.


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> My energy has totally gone. Slopped around in my pyjamas past few days. Can't be bothered to do anything


Horrible isn't it?

Hope you are ok x


----------



## canuckjill

Siskin said:


> How worrying all this is for you, do hope your surgery goes ahead in April and is successful. I'm currently having radiotherapy and the forward planning is for an operation to remove the lump in my thigh early June. Dreading something is going to go wrong


I hope all goes well Siskin, mine is growing slightly since the 2nd biopsy so really hope they don't delay. This is my 3rd cancer I had Melanoma in 2010 and I have leukemia which is in remission (8yrs yippee) this one is Squamish cell which apparently because of the leukemia I am now prone too.


----------



## MilleD

canuckjill said:


> I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


Well that makes me feel I'm moaning about nothing.

Hope the April date works out and all goes well xx


----------



## SusieRainbow

Good luck Jill, thoughts are with you.


----------



## mrs phas

spoke to my aunt today
shes 84 and has hyperthyroidism
lives in thamesmead london, on her own
have tried to get her to move up here for the last 20 yrs, as the only family she has down there is her brother, my uncle, who has now moved out canvey, to look after his ex wife
but no, she was born in london, she will die in london
and tbh, the way shes going, that will be sooner, rather than later!n
despite having enough loo roll, potatoes, tea bags, longlife milk mince and bread to outlast most everything, thanks to lovely neighbours who keep dropping off bags of groceries for her, and, bless them, accepting no reimbersement
and 
them dropping of casseroles and shepherds pies and other ready for oven/freezer meals
plus
knowing she just has to leave a note on her gate if she needs anything specifically
she is still just 'popping over the road'
quite what for i dont now
her attitude is
bombs didnt kill me, no flu will
she is a mad as a box of frogs anyway, a real life mad aunty if you will
and doesnt quite understand whats going on around her t the best of times
not dementia or alzheimers, just scatty, and having lived on her own, for 50 years
does things her own foible filled way
and im cross with her
cos i love her to bits

sorry for the ramble


----------



## willa

Someone I was in contact with last Monday, has today come down with a temperature.
Does that mean I need to isolate for longer than a week ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

JoanneF said:


> I feel like I ought to clean all the kitchen cupboards but I really don't want to. I guess at some stage there will be a tipping point where the drive to clean will exceed the drive to watch daytime tv.


That's me at the moment. So much time to do stuff but I really cba 

I did finish all the washing the other day but talked myself out of ironing as the 3 of us are self isolating so slobbing in pj's or joggers and t-shirts.

Told myself Monday I'll get busy .....


----------



## Sacrechat

canuckjill said:


> I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


I'm so sorry to hear you're unwell. I hope you get your operation soon.


----------



## JoanneF

Lurcherlad said:


> That's me at the moment. So much time to do stuff but I really cba
> 
> I did finish all the washing the other day but talked myself out of ironing as the 3 of us are self isolating so slobbing in pj's or joggers and t-shirts.
> 
> Told myself Monday I'll get busy .....


I think seeing time stretching ahead takes away any sense of urgency. That's not a good thing.

But I never iron - I live in t -shirts, sweaters, jeans etc so ironing is not on my list


----------



## Sacrechat

I seem to be the exception. I’ve been keeping myself busy in the garden all week. We power washed the paving slabs - it takes 5 days; washed all the garden furniture; planted some plants we bought a few weeks ago; did some pruning and weeding. I took a day off today to relax, but we will be back doing jobs tomorrow.

The only thing I didn’t do last week was any exercise because I was active most of the day anyway. I’m hoping to resume exercising this week, but I can do that at home as we have a mini gym in one of the spare rooms with treadmill, bike, rowing machine, trampoline etc.

My hubby was even out in the garden doing jobs today tidying one of the sheds. It helps keep us sane!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sacremist said:


> I seem to be the exception. I've been keeping myself busy in the garden all week. We power washed the paving slabs - it takes 5 days; washed all the garden furniture; planted some plants we bought a few weeks ago; did some pruning and weeding. I took a day off today to relax, but we will be back doing jobs tomorrow.
> 
> The only thing I didn't do last week was any exercise because I was active most of the day anyway. I'm hoping to resume exercising this week, but I can do that at home as we have a mini gym in one of the spare rooms with treadmill, bike, rowing machine, trampoline etc.
> 
> My hubby was even out in the garden doing jobs today tidying one of the sheds. It helps keep us sane!


I'm exhausted just reading about it! 

Once I get going, I'm ok - it's just I can't seem to get going atm


----------



## JoanneF

Sacremist said:


> I've been keeping myself busy in the garden all week. We power washed the paving slabs - it takes 5 days; washed all the garden furniture; planted some plants we bought a few weeks ago; did some pruning and weedi


Come and live with me please?


----------



## willa

Can’t find anything online about having contact with someone a week ago who now has a temperature .

I’ve been Isolating for almost a week now with no symptoms.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> I seem to be the exception. I've been keeping myself busy in the garden all week. We power washed the paving slabs - it takes 5 days; washed all the garden furniture; planted some plants we bought a few weeks ago; did some pruning and weeding. I took a day off today to relax, but we will be back doing jobs tomorrow.
> 
> The only thing I didn't do last week was any exercise because I was active most of the day anyway. I'm hoping to resume exercising this week, but I can do that at home as we have a mini gym in one of the spare rooms with treadmill, bike, rowing machine, trampoline etc.
> 
> My hubby was even out in the garden doing jobs today tidying one of the sheds. It helps keep us sane!


those of us who've had the 12 week isolation letter/text
arent even allowed into the garden
just to sit by an open window for fresh air


----------



## Sacrechat

JoanneF said:


> Come and live with me please?


Lol! It's mind over matter!


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> those of us who've had the 12 week isolation letter/text
> arent even allowed into the garden
> just to sit by an open window for fresh air


I honestly expected my husband to get a letter because he has asthma and emphysema but he's had nothing.


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Someone I was in contact with last Monday, has today come down with a temperature.
> Does that mean I need to isolate for longer than a week ?


I'm afraid it does


----------



## willa

rona said:


> I'm afraid it does


I looked online & there's nothing about this.

If that's the case every single person she had contact with for past 3 weeks needs to know !( 2 weeks at work, then past week with her son )


----------



## canuckjill

Sacremist said:


> I'm so sorry to hear you're unwell. I hope you get your operation soon.


Luckily I don't feel sick in the least just worried like the rest of the World...


----------



## Blitz

willa said:


> I looked online & there's nothing about this.
> 
> If that's the case every single person she had contact with for past 3 weeks needs to know !( 2 weeks at work, then past week with her son )


I think it is only people in the same household. A temperature does not mean it is coronavirus. the whole world would be isolated (more than they are) if every contact of someone with a temperature had to isolate. There would be no one at work.


----------



## willa

Blitz said:


> I think it is only people in the same household. A temperature does not mean it is coronavirus. the whole world would be isolated (more than they are) if every contact of someone with a temperature had to isolate. There would be no one at work.


That makes sense. So if by Wednesday I'm still symptom free then I assume I'm fine to go home to my family.Will have been self isolating for over a week just incase
It's her & her son he'll need the 2 weeks isolation to begin from now, (even though they've obvs been isolating this past week anyway)

Just a very confusing and worrying time for everyone


----------



## Cleo38

Sacremist said:


> I seem to be the exception. I've been keeping myself busy in the garden all week. We power washed the paving slabs - it takes 5 days; washed all the garden furniture; planted some plants we bought a few weeks ago; did some pruning and weeding. I took a day off today to relax, but we will be back doing jobs tomorrow.
> 
> The only thing I didn't do last week was any exercise because I was active most of the day anyway. I'm hoping to resume exercising this week, but I can do that at home as we have a mini gym in one of the spare rooms with treadmill, bike, rowing machine, trampoline etc.
> 
> My hubby was even out in the garden doing jobs today tidying one of the sheds. It helps keep us sane!


I've been so busy with work this week. Am working from home but I am actually working, end of month reports that need doing, etc. But this weekend as the weather has been nicer I've been out in my garden trying to clear stuff, cut down some over hanging branches for my apple tree, cut back some bushes, etc. So many things that need doing that I might be able to actually get on top of things now.

I was going to start doing some decorating but tbh I would rather be outside if the weather's not bad, I use any excuse not to be inside so am actually hoping for rain to make me get started inside. I have all the paint, etc just can't seem to get motvated…..

I was so busy today but it was nice to sit down & catch up on some dog training podcasts I had been wanting to listen to & have a video call with my family which was hilarious. Then got on my treadmill this evening for a quick 3miles watching Fight Club, I quite enjoyed my day tbh


----------



## kimthecat

canuckjill said:


> I've been social distancing since Feb 29th. I was due to have cancer surgery March 18 and 19 and thought I would try to protect my Dr's since the surgery is on my face. Well that was cancelled due to one of the specialist's being exposed so was in 14 day isolation. It was rebooked for April 15th so have just kept it up. Hopefully its still a go on the 15th.. Wishing you all well in the UK and USA from your Canadian Friend Jill


Really hope it goes ahead . Wishing you all the best.


----------



## JoanneF

@canuckjill , look after yourself. Wishing you a good recovery.


----------



## kimthecat

Went to post a letter for my exercise , went by the corner shop , took a look and then went hobbling back home as fast as I could go . Burst through the door , panting away and trying to catch my breath , shouting out QUICK GET YOUR COAT . OH comes running up , dogs barking their heads off, WHATS HAPPENED ! Puff, the corner shop , pant , has , gasp , TOILET ROLLS ! So he grabs his coat and rushed down there and got the last pack . Yay !!


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> I've been so busy with work this week. Am working from home but I am actually working, end of month reports that need doing, etc. But this weekend as the weather has been nicer I've been out in my garden trying to clear stuff, cut down some over hanging branches for my apple tree, cut back some bushes, etc. So many things that need doing that I might be able to actually get on top of things now.
> 
> I was going to start doing some decorating but tbh I would rather be outside if the weather's not bad, I use any excuse not to be inside so am actually hoping for rain to make me get started inside. I have all the paint, etc just can't seem to get motvated…..
> 
> I was so busy today but it was nice to sit down & catch up on some dog training podcasts I had been wanting to listen to & have a video call with my family which was hilarious. Then got on my treadmill this evening for a quick 3miles watching Fight Club, I quite enjoyed my day tbh


It was due to the lovely weather all last week that we decided to focus on spring cleaning the garden in preparation for the summer. We usually spend most weekends through mid March to the end of April doing this, but we've practically done it all in a week. We still have a little more outside work to do like painting and digging all the outdoor furniture cushions out of the attic, but we are nearly done. We won't be able to buy any annuals this year, but it's a small price to pay for staying alive!


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Went to post a letter for my exercise , went by the corner shop , took a look and then went hobbling back home as fast as I could go . Burst through the door , panting away and trying to catch my breath , shouting out QUICK GET YOUR COAT . OH comes running up , dogs barking their heads off, WHATS HAPPENED ! Puff, the corner shop , pant , has , gasp , TOILET ROLLS ! So he grabs his coat and rushed down there and got the last pack . Yay !!
> 
> View attachment 434872


We managed to get toilet rolls in our delivery this week.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Well, we'll have nothing left to moan about when this hell has ended will we? It's like how I imagined life like to be in East Germany in the 1970s. Twitching curtains, grassing up, moralizing and judging others by their actions without knowing the actual story of that person. Looking at others with suspicion. I thought this was supposed to be bringing us all together.

I'm one of those selfish people breaking the 'laws' of this lockdown. I live alone in semi rural countryside with my two dogs, I work from home running my own small business and visit the post office five days a week to drop off the items I make from home. In and out without touching or meeting anyone. No family and no friends able to visit to talk to. But I'm ordered not even to drive just the 15 minutes away to some of the solitary places that I love walking with my dogs that gives me peace and tranquility. Because....

I'm sure the curtains are also twitching when people see me still visiting my 90 year old mum each Friday to take her the lunch that I cook for her and order her prescriptions because she is housebound and deaf. Unable to communicate on the phone - just text messages a few times a day. The curtain twitchers don't know that we don't touch, hug or sit closer than the recommended 6 feet.

I've driven those few short miles to my favourite solitary places with my dogs two or three times since the lockdown, but I'm not sure for how much longer I'll be able to do that.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Went to post a letter for my exercise , went by the corner shop , took a look and then went hobbling back home as fast as I could go . Burst through the door , panting away and trying to catch my breath , shouting out QUICK GET YOUR COAT . OH comes running up , dogs barking their heads off, WHATS HAPPENED ! Puff, the corner shop , pant , has , gasp , TOILET ROLLS ! So he grabs his coat and rushed down there and got the last pack . Yay !!
> 
> View attachment 434872


I must admit our corner shop seems well stocked.. No pasta currently but they did have rice which is also lacking in shelves too. Especially for dog/cat food which are the well known brands that seem to go off the shelves faster at my local Tescos.


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> Can't find anything online about having contact with someone a week ago who now has a temperature .
> 
> I've been Isolating for almost a week now with no symptoms.


14 days from last contact with the person unless they get tested and are confirmed not positive.

Incubation is 2-14 days.


----------



## kimthecat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Well, we'll have nothing left to moan about when this hell has ended will we? It's like how I imagined life like to be in East Germany in the 1970s. Twitching curtains, grassing up, moralizing and judging others by their actions without knowing the actual story of that person. Looking at others with suspicion. I thought this was supposed to be bringing us all together.
> 
> I'm one of those selfish people breaking the 'laws' of this lockdown. I live alone in semi rural countryside with my two dogs, I work from home running my own small business and visit the post office five days a week to drop off the items I make from home. In and out without touching or meeting anyone. No family and no friends able to visit to talk to. But I'm ordered not even to drive just the 15 minutes away to some of the solitary places that I love walking with my dogs that gives me peace and tranquility. Because....
> 
> I'm sure the curtains are also twitching when people see me still visiting my 90 year old mum each Friday to take her the lunch that I cook for her and order her prescriptions because she is housebound and deaf. Unable to communicate on the phone - just text messages a few times a day. The curtain twitchers don't know that we don't touch, hug or sit closer than the recommended 6 feet.
> 
> I've driven those few short miles to my favourite solitary places with my dogs two or three times since the lockdown, but I'm not sure for how much longer I'll be able to do that.


 The main roads are quite busy here as its urban, no police stopping anyone. people out buying from local shops . I'm sure your mum is allowed acarer to visit her. Im walking at my nearest local park/playing fields but will possibly be driving to another local area where I can go straight from my car to more isolated fields . Im passing people as I walk to my park , they are now coming from the other side to get to the shop and off licence . The young ones dont seem to bothered about keeping a distance and Im zig zagging around them .
It seems like a game of chicken , who's going to move first


----------



## lullabydream

As it keeps being touched on
This video is trending on YouTube


----------



## Elles

People really don’t get it do they? What if the 5000 people in his small village decided to drive to his isolated field? Some get to drive a bit further? He’d be really pleased if he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital and someone driving to his quiet field crashed into him, having been affected by a sudden and unexpected bout of coughing. We should be driving our cars as little as possible.


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Can't find anything online about having contact with someone a week ago who now has a temperature .
> 
> I've been Isolating for almost a week now with no symptoms.


Maybe ring your gp and ask them?


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> People really don't get it do they? What if the 5000 people in his small village decided to drive to his isolated field? Some get to drive a bit further? He'd be really pleased if he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital and someone driving to his quiet field crashed into him, having been affected by a sudden and unexpected bout of coughing. We should be driving our cars as little as possible.


Am pavement plodding with my 4..not at the same time. They don't seem to mind. Quite like walks in to empty town centre, retail parks etc.

As a rule mine aren't interested in other dogs but I do think it better they don't blow a recall now where other dogs are. Others dogs are now where I used to walk them where I saw no one.

I turn walk another way if I see people with dogs, it's a walk am not bothered it all works out.


----------



## Magyarmum

Well worth reading for those who have extremely vulnerable friends and relatives.

Hope the link works.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...HWB_2020-03-30&dm_i=21A8,6SEFA,VBLLNH,R6KF8,1

*Guidance on shielding and protecting people defined on medical grounds as extremely vulnerable from COVID-19*


----------



## Siskin

The last outbreak of foot and mouth everyone had to walk dogs along pavements and roads as no one was allowed to use the foot path network. Consequently my two dogs were lwalked on the lead for something like four months. It was boring for me and them, but we all managed and were fine at the end of it. I remember going up onto Cleeve Common at the end of restrictions which normally was grazed pretty heavily by sheep and cattle and found the most incredible display of hundreds of bee orchids. Never seen them since as the animals graze them off each year.


----------



## kimthecat

Won't the pavements get crowded if everyone sticks to walking on them ?
Circumstances are different for everybody and each has to do the best they can and make choices that are appropriate . 

Doing spring cleaning or rather OH is ! Amazing how high baked bean juice gets up the wall.


----------



## Sairy

Elles said:


> People really don't get it do they? What if the 5000 people in his small village decided to drive to his isolated field? Some get to drive a bit further? He'd be really pleased if he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital and someone driving to his quiet field crashed into him, having been affected by a sudden and unexpected bout of coughing. We should be driving our cars as little as possible.


Exactly! And whilst it's a shame that many of us can't walk our dogs where we would like to, our dogs will be fine. I will not be walking Holly for the foreseeable future as I have decided the risk of either of us bringing the virus back on our feet (or on Holly's fur somewhere) is not one I wish to take. A bit extreme maybe, but she's quite happy playing in the garden and if stopping walks means that the family are kept safe then so be it. The lovely countryside will still be there when this is all over.


----------



## MilleD

From Action for Happiness.

https://www.actionforhappiness.org/...r.pdf?utm_medium=govdelivery&utm_source=email


----------



## kimthecat

I hope it won't be necessary to stop people leaving their homes for exercise. Its important for mental health too. 

The fall out of this virus will be other non -related deaths  I hope they will catch up with routine health checks that saves lives like smear tests and mammograms .


----------



## SusieRainbow

MilleD said:


> From Action for Happiness.
> 
> https://www.actionforhappiness.org/...r.pdf?utm_medium=govdelivery&utm_source=email


That's excellent,I've saved it.Thank you.


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> I hope it won't be necessary to stop people leaving their homes for exercise. Its important for mental health too.
> 
> The fall out of this virus will be other non -related deaths  I hope they will catch up with routine health checks that saves lives like smear tests and mammograms .


I hope so too. My son is on complete lockdown in Spain, they aren't allowed out. His very good friend who he stays with in Germany died yesterday. She was 39. He would have visited her in hospital, but of course no one was allowed to visit and he's not allowed to travel round the corner, let alone to another country. It's the same here now, friends and families can no longer visit dying relatives. It's heartbreaking.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Had our weekly trip to Sainsbury's for the elderly hour this morning, only queued for about 5 mins to get in, got everything we need for the week, only one in front of us at the tills, there and back in less than hour.

Everyone one was been receptive of the 2 meter spacing expect for 2 women having a argument, would you believe, over some pre-pack ham


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Had our weekly trip to Sainsbury's for the elderly hour this morning, only queued for about 5 mins to get in, got everything we need for the week, only one in front of us at the tills, there and back in less than hour.
> 
> Everyone one was been receptive of the 2 meter spacing expect for 2 women having a argument, would you believe, over some pre-pack ham


How did you get there? Can you still get cabs? Buses passing nearly empty here.

Im due a prescription , it would make sense if the chemist could arrange delivery to door instead of having to go to chemist.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> How did you get there? Can you still get cabs? Buses passing nearly empty here.
> 
> .


OH walked and I was on my Mobility Scooter, it's only a 10 minute walk for us. Sainsbury's is like our local corner shop. 

I don't know about taxis.


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH walked and I was on my Mobility Scooter, it's only a 10 minute walk for us. Sainsbury's is like our local corner shop.
> 
> I don't know about taxis.


oh that's handy ! :Hilarious


----------



## MilleD




----------



## catz4m8z

ooooh, news today says hospital infection rates are dropping! Could it be that the lockdown is working!?
Now we just need people to keep obeying it and not decided that its ok if they go out for X coz....reasons. Hopefully people dont start flouting it if things calm down though.


As to dog walking I once kept Hannah without any walks at all for over 6 weeks when there was nothing much wrong with her and she was fine! (it took several vet visits, x rays and an orthopaedic consult to work that out! just a mild luxating patella!). Point being she was fine so Im sure everybody could just walk from their house round their neighbourhood and home without excuses.


----------



## MilleD

Has anyone seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/damien.hewetson/media_set?set=a.10156897644141120&type=3

Apologies if you don't have FB


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/damien.hewetson/media_set?set=a.10156897644141120&type=3
> 
> Apologies if you don't have FB


Do you mean the photos of the empty underground? Amazing sight and amazing pics


----------



## Elles

catz4m8z said:


> ooooh, news today says hospital infection rates are dropping! Could it be that the lockdown is working!?
> Now we just need people to keep obeying it and not decided that its ok if they go out for X coz....reasons. Hopefully people dont start flouting it if things calm down though.
> 
> As to dog walking I once kept Hannah without any walks at all for over 6 weeks when there was nothing much wrong with her and she was fine! (it took several vet visits, x rays and an orthopaedic consult to work that out! just a mild luxating patella!). Point being she was fine so Im sure everybody could just walk from their house round their neighbourhood and home without excuses.


ooh that is good news, I hope it's right.

Some don't seem to understand that if they say they're having to prioritise treatment to the younger, fitter patients, it means there are younger, fitter patients. They have more of chance of survival, if they get treatment and may well die, or suffer chronic, long term damage, if they don't. So the fewer people there are in hospital at once, the better your chances of having everything thrown at you, young or old and the better your chance of survival, young or old. Whether it's from Coronavirus, or from something that a cancelled mammogram, or smear could have picked up. It's not just the elderly and vulnerable who need ventilators and treatment if they catch Covid-19, they're just the ones more likely to die from it.

I just read some link saying that anyone over 60 should be in isolation and stay in, so that everyone else can just carry on as normal, because it's no worse than a cold for normal people.


----------



## StormyThai

Sacremist said:


> View attachment 434894


One of the farmers around me has actually opened up his land so that people can exercise away from the town.
Farmers around here are also carrying hand sanatizer with them to use after opening and closing gates.

Unfortunately lambing season is always rife with death due to inconsiderate [email protected] or no virus


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Do you mean the photos of the empty underground? Amazing sight and amazing pics


Yes. Is that what the link took you too? I'm never quite sure with Facebook


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> I looked online & there's nothing about this.
> 
> If that's the case every single person she had contact with for past 3 weeks needs to know !( 2 weeks at work, then past week with her son )


 The entire world, internet and newspapers, and news is filled with instructions to self isolate and why. Yes. that is why business are closed and people are told to stay home. Because it is that contagious and no one knows if someone one else has it or not.

Your friend should contact health care officials and find out if she should be tested. If her test is positive they will track her movements and try to determine who else has been exposed. This is how it's done, to try to contain the virus.


----------



## Magyarmum

I don't believe it ........ how stupid can people be?

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tamp...rPX-DLPbMNZc9tV1-dlU4BEcNdyQEwG9sIh5sBfheNakw

*Tampa megachurch crowded with worshipers, despite social distancing orders*


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/damien.hewetson/media_set?set=a.10156897644141120&type=3
> 
> Apologies if you don't have FB


Yes, saw them last week - stunning, aren't they? I sometimes have to go to London as part of the job, so I know some of those areas, always nothing less than crowded. You forget just how breautiful some of the places are when you stop to appreciate them


----------



## Magyarmum

*The Daily Mash*
*'Let's enjoy life while we can', says woman about to infect nan with COVID-19*
30th March 2020








*A WOMAN who believes in living life to the fullest will this week infect her 71-year-old grandmother with the coronavirus. *

22-year-old Helen Archer has spent the afternoon at her parents' house baking cakes and has decided to ignore the restrictions and pop some round to her poor self-isolating nana.

She said: "Something like this makes you realise what's really important in life. Family.

"I've not had any symptons and I've had hardly any contact with anyone who has for at least a week, so chances are it's fine. I'm not willing to live my life in fear.

"Nana seemed a bit worried, but you know old people. They've not got that youthful joie de vivre like us young folk. They take things hard.

"So long as I'm healthy, why shouldn't I enjoy it and share that enjoyment with others? I think it really cheered her up."

Grandmother Joyce Archer said: "I'm not touching that f**king cake."


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Yes. Is that what the link took you too? I'm never quite sure with Facebook


It took me to his page which I fine if the thing you want someone to see is the first item and not buried under more recent posts, that's why I checked with you to make sure


----------



## Elles

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52091725

"A minute's silence has been held in memory of a consultant who was one of the first senior medics in the UK to die after contracting coronavirus."


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

StormyThai said:


> One of the farmers around me has actually opened up his land so that people can exercise away from the town.


He's probably not a working farmer - no offence - but for most farmers every field is in use that this time of year - yes, it's lambing (sheep and lambs are at risk from dog poo as much as from the dogs themselves) and some farmers have cattle of course but the other fields are being turned and ploughed for sowing (for veggies/ for grain /for hay) or have seeds coming through already. Any farmers who has empty fields isn't working his farm. And as the National Trust has closed their walking areas to stop people congregating and walking out of area, anyone who encourages it isn't actually helping in my opinion. One has to wonder where they are all parking.

J


----------



## StormyThai

He is a working farmer...just not sheep 
He leaves borders around his fields...they aren't footpaths so usually we are not allowed to use them and he gets very cross if you are caught but we are now allowed to use the borders so long as we stick to the borders (so no dogs running across the fields after balls.


----------



## kimthecat

I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this one.! :Hilarious

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52088987
A driver flouted the coronavirus lockdown to pick up £15 windows with his wife in the boot of his car.

The man, who had bought the windows on eBay, was stopped by police on the M6 in Cheshire on Sunday after collecting his purchase in Salford.

Police said his wife had to sit in the boot as she "could not fit in the vehicle" for the return journey to Coventry.

North West Motorway Police issued the man with a traffic offence report.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

StormyThai said:


> (so no dogs running across the fields after balls.)


He must be planting for crops. As I said, no such thing as an empty field! We have a lot of footpaths across the farm - plenty for locals to walk on. And locals are always welcome all year round.



kimthecat said:


> with his wife in the boot of his car.


Is this was this bit got that got me :Hilarious

J


----------



## Lurcherlad

Are farmers allowed to block access to public footpaths? 

One has been blocked locally even though users wouldn’t be anywhere near farm buildings, there are no gates or stiles to touch and it’s an arable farm.


----------



## catz4m8z

wow, and this is why we need so called draconian measures....not for the majority with common sense but for the idiots who probably think they are ok coz they have Norton installed on their computers!:Hilarious


----------



## StormyThai

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> He must be planting for crops.


He is indeed, we are surrounded by arable farms. I have permission to use his fields for scent tracking after they have been cut


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

StormyThai said:


> He is indeed, we are surrounded by arable farms. I have permission to use his fields for scent tracking after they have been cut


Excellent. We have a little group of us who do this in the stubble fields at the end of the season too. Well, I don't know about this year 

J


----------



## Lurcherlad

.

.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Lurcherlad said:


> Are farmers allowed to block access to public footpaths?


Some footpaths have been blocked here locally - but by the council not by the landowner - generally they are access points that were apparently deemed too narrow for people to pass at the recommended distance of 2m. Big signs have gone up.

J


----------



## mrs phas

He's home I have him
Easy enough to isolate at Heathrow
place is a ghost ship


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Are farmers allowed to block access to public footpaths?
> 
> One has been blocked locally even though users wouldn't be anywhere near farm buildings, there are no gates or stiles to touch and it's an arable farm.


There are certain criteria that they can, though it has to go through the local/county council I believe and normally there would be a council notice.


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Are farmers allowed to block access to public footpaths?
> 
> One has been blocked locally even though users wouldn't be anywhere near farm buildings, there are no gates or stiles to touch and it's an arable farm.


No . has it always been blocked or is just since the crises. Is it definitely a Public footpath with a number etc ?

ETA just seen Ronas reply so it looks like they can.


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> No . has it always been blocked or is just since the crises. Is it definitely a Public footpath with a number etc ?
> 
> ETA just seen Ronas reply so it looks like they can.


I think it's to do with the virus but as it's nowhere near the actual yard/buildings and the track is actually wide I'm not sure why. No matter to me cos I'm not going that far atm, just wondered.


----------



## mrs phas

For those who know Heathrow, this what it looked like at 3pm today



















Arrivals!


----------



## kimthecat

Sairy said:


> Exactly! And whilst it's a shame that many of us can't walk our dogs where we would like to, our dogs will be fine. I will not be walking Holly for the foreseeable future as I have decided the risk of either of us bringing the virus back on our feet (or on Holly's fur somewhere) is not one I wish to take. A bit extreme maybe, but she's quite happy playing in the garden and if stopping walks means that the family are kept safe then so be it. The lovely countryside will still be there when this is all over.


My dogs would be probably fine if I didn't walk them. I wouldn't be fine if I didn't walk in the fields though, it's how I deal with difficult times . Its got me through soem really bad times . It's how I cope though am learning Tai Chi ! Ive always walk dogs even as a child , it was safe then , I would just go out on my own and wander round the fields and woods.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> For those who know Heathrow, this what it looked like at 3pm today
> 
> View attachment 434951
> 
> 
> View attachment 434952
> 
> 
> Arrivals!


Blimey . I know it well. ! Glad you son is back ok .
The skys are quieter but the noise from the A/M40 and M25 is still roaring .

You got back home quick!


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> You got back home quick!


Clear road there and back, apart from lorries doing elephant racing
Not that I'm not grateful for them delivering our food and essentials, cos I am

I got a taste of how the M11 and M25 were envisioned to look, and drive, rather than playing bumper cars every half mile.
Was total bliss


----------



## lorilu

Magyarmum said:


> I don't believe it ........ how stupid can people be?
> 
> https://www.fox13news.com/news/tamp...rPX-DLPbMNZc9tV1-dlU4BEcNdyQEwG9sIh5sBfheNakw
> 
> *Tampa megachurch crowded with worshipers, despite social distancing orders*


He has been arrested after turning himself in. Hopefully there will be no more of this idiocy, but I doubt it. People are idiots.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...e-sunday-services-arrested-jailed/ar-BB11VzzL


----------



## mrs phas

Well I'm doubley safe now
Already on hydroxychloraquine
And
Have a CPAP, have had one for around 6 years, I have apnea cycles, which this helps stop

Although the second I'm a little confused about
It only opens the airways when you breath 
So
If you can't/dont breathe ,or if you breathe to shallowly, as a person with pneumonia might well do
It doesn't force the airways open and air into the lungs


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> Well I'm doubley safe now
> Already on hydroxychloraquine
> And
> Have a CPAP, have had one for around 6 years, I have apnea cycles, which this helps stop
> 
> Although the second I'm a little confused about
> It only opens the airways when you breath
> So
> If you can't/dont breathe ,or if you breathe to shallowly, as a person with pneumonia might well do
> It doesn't force the airways open and air into the lungs


I have a cpap too.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> I have a cpap too.


Then you understand what I mean, when I say, if you don't breathe or breathe too shallowly, it don't work
It simply cannot keep someone breathing, otherwise, if you were unlucky enough to die whilst wearing it,your lungs would fill til, like balloons, they popped
It was one of the first things I asked when papworth suggested using one


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> For those who know Heathrow, this what it looked like at 3pm today
> 
> View attachment 434951
> 
> 
> View attachment 434952
> 
> 
> Arrivals!


The planet heaves a sigh of relief at least!


----------



## Lurcherlad

The cpap machines will have some kind of adaptor on to change how they work in some way. They aren’t meant to replace ventilators for those bad enough to need them but to aid sufferers before they deteriorate, I believe.

I think they will be connected to an oxygen supply too.

I’m sure there’s a proper description on the net somewhere.


----------



## Magyarmum

Relax everyone!
American televangelist Kenneth Copeland has just vanquished COVID-19 from the world with a Christian magic spell.
Problem solved.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157816446706634


----------



## rona

I've got to go out in my car sometime this week and I really hope I'm not stopped by the police. I've spent over two weeks now trying to stay away from people and from all the news reports I've seen, the police are still leaning into people in their cars


----------



## Cleo38

rona said:


> I've got to go out in my car sometime this week and I really hope I'm not stopped by the police. I've spent over two weeks now trying to stay away from people and from all the news reports I've seen, the police are still leaning into people in their cars


I think it's worrying how some forces seem to be interpreting this situation & are putting people at risk by stopping them … it's madness. In my sisters area some officers were trying to stop people walking, running, etc along the beach. They were not in groups, they were not hanging around but simply exercisisng as they are 'allowed' to do, the beach hadn't been closed so I am not sure what the actual purpose for their approach.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> I've got to go out in my car sometime this week and I really hope I'm not stopped by the police. I've spent over two weeks now trying to stay away from people and from all the news reports I've seen,* the police* are still leaning into people in their cars


Some of them are power crazy.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Some of them are power crazy.


I don't mind them stopping me if they feel the need. I just want them to distance themselves, and from what I've seen on news items, a great many are not


----------



## MilleD

I saw an article on the news this morning about the police's interpretation of the 'guidance'.

Completely different by police force, and over egged in a lot of cases.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I don't mind them stopping me if they feel the need. I just want them to distance themselves, and from what I've seen on news items, a great many are not


Only wind your window down enough to speak to them.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> Relax everyone!
> American televangelist Kenneth Copeland has just vanquished COVID-19 from the world with a Christian magic spell.
> Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157816446706634


I nearly wet myself listening to him.

But I think Donald Trump believes him.


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10100321933522300


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> Only wind your window down enough to speak to them.


I wouldn't even do that, I would shout through to them. I haven't been in contact with anyone for over 2wks as I need to go & see my mum (caring duties) so don't want to risk anything. Some reported instances have detailed police actions using drones to film walkers, officers telling a shop to stop selling Easter eggs, putting dye in to a reservoir to stop people going there. We are in danger of turning in to a police state if this is allowed to continue


----------



## kimthecat

nephew is freelance graphic designer. all his contracts have been cancelled , no work for months He has family to support.
I think the uncertainty is the most stressful. Its nearly impossible to self isolate , OH will have to get prescriptions soon for me and also my sister and her husband. DD self isolating , two weeks since school broke up but she has ME so at risk.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> I wouldn't even do that, I would shout through to them I haven't been in contact with anyone for over 2wks as I need to go & see my mum (caring duties) so don't want to risk anything. Some reported instances have detailed police actions using drones to film walkers, officers telling a shop to stop selling Easter eggs, putting dye in to a reservoir to stop people going there. We are in danger of turning in to a police state if this is allowed to continue


Trouble is, how do you control this if you let everyone do what they want? The people flouting the laws are hard enough to deal with, without telling everyone else they can do more than it seems.


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> I wouldn't even do that, I would shout through to them I haven't been in contact with anyone for over 2wks as I need to go & see my mum (caring duties) so don't want to risk anything. Some reported instances have detailed police actions using drones to film walkers, officers telling a shop to stop selling Easter eggs, putting dye in to a reservoir to stop people going there. We are in danger of turning in to a police state if this is allowed to continue


its been on the news about some police been heavy handed. Its a new law so they're adjusting to it. haven't seen any police at all. Some of the main roads are busy but dont think they have road checks.


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> Trouble is, how do you control this if you let everyone do what they want? The people flouting the laws are hard enough to deal with, without telling everyone else they can do more than it seems.


But are they really? Or are they just easy targets? People are allowed outside, they are allowed to exercise, they are allowed to walk their dogs … some police forces would rather nobody be allowed to do anything which is not the answer & will (IMO) create more unrest.

This was a good article I read this morning …. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article...-justice-this-is-what-a-police-state-is-like-


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> nephew is freelance graphic designer. all his contracts have been cancelled , no work for months He has family to support.
> I think the uncertainty is the most stressful. Its nearly impossible to self isolate , OH will have to get prescriptions soon for me and also my sister and her husband. DD self isolating , two weeks since school broke up but she has ME so at risk.


It's definitely the open endedness of this that is disconcerting. I've got 43 days worth of my combined inhalers left and I already starting to wonder if I'll need to go to a pharmacy.

I've only been out on my bike. But the car will need a run soon I suppose. Will start going a bit stir crazy soon...


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> its been on the news about some police been heavy handed. Its a new law so they're adjusting to it. haven't seen any police at all. Some of the main roads are busy but dont think they have road checks.


I think the issue some people have is that the police are policing things that are effectively not in the new legislation.


----------



## StormyThai

Cleo38 said:


> Some reported instances have detailed police actions using drones to film walkers, officers telling a shop to stop selling Easter eggs, putting dye in to a reservoir to stop people going there. We are in danger of turning in to a police state if this is allowed to continue


I agree with you when it comes to some forces...luckily the police that I have seen in town have all been reasonable and only break up groups, I don't think we have any road stops either but not 100% because the car has stayed on the drive.
That res though is toxic, people shouldn't be there anyway so I actually agree with what they did there. The NHS does not need to see an influx of idiots that swallowed toxic water while swimming in a place that the public are not allowed


----------



## Cleo38

StormyThai said:


> I agree with you when it comes to some forces...luckily the police that I have seen in town have all been reasonable and only break up groups, I don't think we have any road stops either but not 100% because the car has stayed on the drive.
> That res though is toxic, people shouldn't be there anyway so I actually agree with what they did there. The NHS does not need to see an influx of idiots that swallowed toxic water while swimming in a place that the public are not allowed


The police round here seem fine & there doesn't seem to have been any issues. I don't agree with them adding dye to a body of water, it is not necessary. If people want to walk there then they are allowed to. If people swim there then yes it is dangerous but so are other activities that people are 'allowed' to do. 
If people are choosing to go to less populated places then they are less likely to come in to contact with others. Preventing people from doing this will create more problems & resentment.


----------



## catz4m8z

I honestly dont have a problem with the drones or policing of touristy spots TBH. We arent supposed to be driving all over and taking in the sights anyways, we are supposed to be sticking close to home and reducing the spread. I dont with easter eggs being banned though,,,how can chocolate not be an essential food item!? Surely its times like this when it is the most essential!
Things are starting to ramp up at work Covid patients on most of the wards and ICU beds being used for the youngest and fittest patients. The next couple of weeks is when we really have to hold onto our hats. Its PPE for everyone all the time now and really?...not a huge fan of sweaty masks all day!LOLoctor
Could be worse though, best friend works with the very high risk patients and has to wear the full works so she is walking around with big red patches all over her face!:Nurse:Hurting


----------



## StormyThai

Cleo38 said:


> The police round here seem fine & there doesn't seem to have been any issues. I don't agree with them adding dye to a body of water, it is not necessary. If people want to walk there then they are allowed to. If people swim there then yes it is dangerous but so are other activities that people are 'allowed' to do.
> If people are choosing to go to less populated places then they are less likely to come in to contact with others. Preventing people from doing this will create more problems & resentment.


They have had to dye it a few times before because people swim there, and this was before Corvid-19
We have a similar place in Cambridge (Chalk pits) and people are stupid enough to swim there too.

It is private land, people are not allowed there at all but still do because the water is so blue


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> I honestly dont have a problem with the drones or policing of touristy spots TBH. We arent supposed to be driving all over and taking in the sights anyways, we are supposed to be sticking close to home and reducing the spread. I dont with easter eggs being banned though,,,how can chocolate not be an essential food item!? Surely its times like this when it is the most essential!
> Things are starting to ramp up at work Covid patients on most of the wards and ICU beds being used for the youngest and fittest patients. The next couple of weeks is when we really have to hold onto our hats. Its PPE for everyone all the time now and really?...not a huge fan of sweaty masks all day!LOLoctor
> Could be worse though, best friend works with the very high risk patients and has to wear the full works so she is walking around with big red patches all over her face!:Nurse:Hurting


My sister did have the person on the checkout at Asda to confirm that it was OK if she could have 4 Easter eggs.. They allowed that as it was Easter eggs.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Cleo38 said:


> This was a good article I read this morning …. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article...-justice-this-is-what-a-police-state-is-like-


Actually i think that is an astonishing and dismissive article from a man who clearly ought to think before he speaks.

So he thinks the threat is being exagerated? Not related to Trump is he? (His exact words "And the threat is usually a real threat but usually exaggerated. That's what I fear we are seeing now." ) How dismissive is he of the deaths, too. Just old people and a couple of youngsters eh. He also appears to have no understanding of how the NHS would be affected if the spike were to continue - which is shocking - he babbles some nonsense when asked about the 'risks to the health service if this thing gets out of control' saying people can draw 'common sense conclusion' whatever than means.

So he thinks the NHS workers are being hysterical and exagerating too does he.

Of course some of the police have been over zealous - but I suspect many more have politely stopped to talk to individuals and break up gatherings in a peaceful manner. Possibly exposing themselves to the virus in the meantime. Hopefully things will settle and education will prevail - well unless Lord Sumption has his way. Virus? What virus.

J


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> I've got to go out in my car sometime this week and I really hope I'm not stopped by the police. I've spent over two weeks now trying to stay away from people and from all the news reports I've seen, the police are still leaning into people in their cars


I drove 3 miles yesterday to drop OH's prescription at the doctors and saw a Police car 

I knew I was ok as meds are essential but I too was concerned they might invade my safe zone if they pulled me over to check me out!


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know that Garden Centers have had to close but I hadn't thought about the consequences...........
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52098436


----------



## mrs phas

To be fair I think supermarkets shouldn't be selling plants either
They ARE non essential anyway, but it must really gall those who work hard ordering, caring and have real knowledge about the plants they are selling, to see their stock dieing and their suppliers going to the wall, whilst the likes of Tesco, Sainsbury's, Aldi etc are allowed to carry on selling cages upon cages of gardening paraphernalia and plants


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Lurcherlad said:


> I knew I was ok as meds are essential but I too was concerned they might invade my safe zone if they pulled me over to check me out!


If you are worried about contact then perhaps carry an A4 sheet which explains where you are going - ie; Picking up my medication from X Chemists - so you can hold it up with a smile. If I am off to my local shop I make sure the shopping bags are in view lest i have to explain where I am going. Not been stooped though.

J


----------



## lullabydream

Cleo38 said:


> The police round here seem fine & there doesn't seem to have been any issues. I don't agree with them adding dye to a body of water, it is not necessary. If people want to walk there then they are allowed to. If people swim there then yes it is dangerous but so are other activities that people are 'allowed' to do.
> If people are choosing to go to less populated places then they are less likely to come in to contact with others. Preventing people from doing this will create more problems & resentment.


It's not just about spreading the virus, it's about the strain on the NHS. They are still dealing with normal accident and emergencies. Non essential car travel is just that. RTA are massive strain on the NHS everyone who drives knows that getting in a car is a huge risk daily. You may never have been in an accident, class yourself as a safe driver but it's not you it's those other numpties on the roads. Especially those who are seeing less cars on the road that take it as I can just put my foot down a bit. 
These doctors then has to make a decision who gets an ICU bed, the person who has Covid-19 and has just been unfortunate. Or the person who was travelling a couple of miles down a road to walk a dog. They are saying we may have enough ICU beds, but this is if no one needs them for something else as well. Yes there will be people with other underlying conditions that may need a ICU bed anyway, as that's just life.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> I think it's worrying how some forces seem to be interpreting this situation & are putting people at risk by stopping them … it's madness. In my sisters area some officers were trying to stop people walking, running, etc along the beach. They were not in groups, they were not hanging around but simply exercisisng as they are 'allowed' to do, the beach hadn't been closed so I am not sure what the actual purpose for their approach.


There's always an element who like to bully people


----------



## 3dogs2cats

By the amount of drilling and hammering that is going on due to people deciding to use their time at home doing home improvements, they need to ban DIY and probably gardening too as no doubt people who are not used to performing tree surgery or trimming hedges will be having a go and end up in A&E!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> If you are worried about contact then perhaps carry an A4 sheet which explains where you are going - ie; Picking up my medication from X Chemists - so you can hold it up with a smile. If I am off to my local shop I make sure the shopping bags are in view lest i have to explain where I am going. Not been stooped though.
> 
> J


I could have held the prescription up at the window


----------



## Cleo38

[


lullabydream said:


> It's not just about spreading the virus, it's about the strain on the NHS. They are still dealing with normal accident and emergencies. Non essential car travel is just that. RTA are massive strain on the NHS everyone who drives knows that getting in a car is a huge risk daily. You may never have been in an accident, class yourself as a safe driver but it's not you it's those other numpties on the roads. Especially those who are seeing less cars on the road that take it as I can just put my foot down a bit.
> These doctors then has to make a decision who gets an ICU bed, the person who has Covid-19 and has just been unfortunate. Or the person who was travelling a couple of miles down a road to walk a dog. They are saying we may have enough ICU beds, but this is if no one needs them for something else as well. Yes there will be people with other underlying conditions that may need a ICU bed anyway, as that's just life.


Yes, I understand that but I do thin there is an element of trying to guilt trip people to get them to comply with unnecessary restrictive rules. Everything has a risk but will people will still continue to do these things & 'burden' the NHS …. people will run & risk twisting their ankle, ride their bikes/horses & risk falling off, smoke & be more at risk from the virus as well as smoking related diseases, DIY at home & injure themselves, etc.

Surely it's about risk assessment as well. I am not being flippant but I do find certain restrictions worrying especially as some seem to be implemented by police forces interpretations rather than any clear law. I am very much aware of risks & how people are vulnerable, my mum has a form of lung cancer so I am extra vigilant & do not expose myself to anyone.


----------



## Siskin

Now that does seem a pity. What a shame they can't somehow be given to people to plant out, the logistics would be very difficult at the moment though


Happy Paws2 said:


> I know that Garden Centers have had to close but I hadn't thought about the consequences...........
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52098436


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> To be fair I think supermarkets shouldn't be selling plants either
> They ARE non essential anyway, but it must really gall those who work hard ordering, caring and have real knowledge about the plants they are selling, to see their stock dieing and their suppliers going to the wall, whilst the likes of Tesco, Sainsbury's, Aldi etc are allowed to carry on selling cages upon cages of gardening paraphernalia and plants


I'm surprised our local nurseries and garden centres aren't diversifying to trade online/telephone for plant deliveries tbh.

It would save all their stock from perishing and help the business to survive. They usually deliver things like garden furniture, paving slabs etc.

So long as they operate within guidelines I think it would work and help to keep people occupied at home.


----------



## Cleo38

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm surprised our local nurseries and garden centres aren't diversifying to trade online/telephone for plant deliveries tbh.
> 
> It would save all their stock from perishing and help the business to survive. They usually deliver things like garden furniture, paving slabs etc.
> 
> So long as they operate within guidelines I think it would work and help to keep people occupied at home.


Local ones here are … but then if we go by interpretation of laws surely those deliveries & transport on the road would be deemed 'unnecessary' & a risk to burdening the NHS.

Whilst this may be true I personally think we have to be reasonable & accept these 'risks'


----------



## O2.0

I've been listening to podcasts, Peter Hotez is a vaccine scientist specializing in these types of viruses and has been on the news a lot as well. It's helpful to me to hear more in-depth discussions about the virus, and what we're learning. 

He did say we're a good way away from a vaccine still, but one thing he is more hopeful about about are treatments. One in particular - convalescent serum antibody might work well. Basically taking the antibodies produced by recovered covid-19 patients and injecting them in to current patients. He was also saying that it could be used prophylactically for health care workers who are being exposed at incredible rates. 
Science to the rescue  Hopefully. 

He's also very concerned about the mental health aspect of all of this. There is so much upheaval, uncertainty, job loss, loss of life... One of his suggestions was to really ramp up our mental health care in the US (which is abysmal to begin with).


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> He's also very concerned about the mental health aspect of all of this. There is so much upheaval, uncertainty, job loss, loss of life... One of his suggestions was to really ramp up our mental health care in the US (which is abysmal to begin with).


Yes, there has been lots of discussions regarding domestic violence increases during this time & possible temp refuges for vulnerable women & children. It must be horrific for those people to be cooped up with their abusers 24/7


----------



## kimthecat

Glad I go my yearly mammo done in Feb . All clear , I would have been worried if I had missed it. They are postponing mammos but dont know if that includes people who have had breast cancer.

B and q closed but will deliver.


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> Local ones here are … but then if we go by interpretation of laws surely those deliveries & transport on the road would be deemed 'unnecessary' & a risk to burdening the NHS.
> 
> Whilst this may be true I personally think we have to be reasonable & accept these 'risks'


Yes, they'd probably not be classified as essential.

Of course, it's going to have a nasty knock on effect on the environment too - if you can't get seeds or pots of annuals and veg there are going to be a lot of empty garden borders and allottments, and a lot less flowers for the bees.

I usually grow tomatoes at home - I have the gro-bag, but probably won't be able to get any plants now!


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Glad I go my yearly mammo done in Feb . All clear , I would have been worried if I had missed it. They are postponing mammos but dont know if that includes people who have had breast cancer.


I had a letter booking me in for the regular mammogram (3 years is it?) for the end of March, it came end of February I think. I decided that as I would be likely to be having radiotherapy by then it wasn't something I could easily go to and I felt I would be having enough scans and stuff without any more. As it happened I had a PET CT done which was clear so I would have thought a beast cancer would have shown up in that. I'm inclined to put it off until next year I think


----------



## Magyarmum

This is what we are allowed to to, and what we're not, in Hungary.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=843142119524787


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Yes, they'd probably not be classified as essential.
> 
> Of course, it's going to have a nasty knock on effect on the environment too - if you can't get seeds or pots of annuals and veg there are going to be a lot of empty garden borders and allottments, and a lot less flowers for the bees.
> 
> I usually grow tomatoes at home - I have the gro-bag, but probably won't be able to get any plants now!


I've ordered some online. No, not essential perhaps, but it's helping out a business, and the deliveries are contactless.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> This is what we are allowed to to, and what we're not, in Hungary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=843142119524787


God forbid your manicure looks ropey during the apocalypse!


----------



## rona

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> A4 sheet which explains where you are going


I don't think I'd be able to fit my explanation on an A4, well I could but they'd need good eyesight


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> God forbid your manicure looks ropey during the apocalypse!


----------



## O2.0

In the US restrictions are state by state. 
We're still allowed free movement, most places are still open for business, curbside or take-out only. Beaches, state parks, and boat ramps all closed to discourage people from gathering. 
I feel very fortunate reading this thread...
It's not hard to stay away from people, we're not a very populated state, and even with more people spending time outside, it's easy enough to avoid close contact. Most stores letting people inside are being very careful, marking out where to stand in line to keep your distance, wiping down surfaces at check-out and carts after every customer. People are being good natured about it all too. 
I feel awful for people in big cities, that's where it is bad


----------



## Elles

If you fall over and break yourself, or lop your arm off with a chainsaw, it is likely to involve one set of emergency services. The hospital ones. If you’re in an rta it is likely to involve every emergency service and people in the other vehicle, if more than one were involved. Even a breakdown can involve recovery services and the police. Some people like our health workers have to do it, they have to drive their cars and fill up at garages. Are you going to tell the rescue services who are risking their lives and those of their families, in order to save yours, that you were just out taking the dog for a walk?

The reason local pavements are more crowded than usual and beauty spots less so, is because everyone else is sticking to the rules.

Stay at home, essential travel only.


----------



## mrs phas

i winder if a case could be made that gardening is an essential, due to helping our mental health, fitness, a way to get daily exercise at home, a way to keep our vitamin d topped up?
that way, as long as theyre taking the same precautions as other 'essential' shops ( air quotes used, as, i dont quite figure how a shop, selling only sweets from USA, quite qualifies as essential) it might be a way to alliviate several problems for us, nature, the shops et al


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> Then you understand what I mean, when I say, if you don't breathe or breathe too shallowly, it don't work
> It simply cannot keep someone breathing, otherwise, if you were unlucky enough to die whilst wearing it,your lungs would fill til, like balloons, they popped
> It was one of the first things I asked when papworth suggested using one


I could be wrong, but I think they have made some alterations to the original design with the help of MacLaren, I think they're called, so it's slightly different to what we have.


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> i dont quite figure how a shop, selling only sweets from USA


If they are selling online, then they are not restricted at the moment I'm still allowed to sell my cat toys online


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> If you fall over and break yourself, or lop your arm off with a chainsaw, it is likely to involve one set of emergency services. The hospital ones. If you're in an rta it is likely to involve every emergency service and people in the other vehicle, if more than one were involved. Even a breakdown can involve recovery services and the police. Some people like our health workers have to do it, they have to drive their cars and fill up at garages. Are you going to tell the rescue services who are risking their lives and those of their families, in order to save yours, that you were just out taking the dog for a walk?
> 
> *The reason local pavements are more crowded than usual and beauty spots less so, is because everyone else is sticking to the rules.*
> 
> Stay at home, essential travel only.


and there by passing on the virus so perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to go out at all. Think about it, joggers and cyclists getting run or knocked over or having heart attacks from to much exercise as well.


----------



## Cleo38

kimthecat said:


> and there by passing on the virus so perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to go out at all. Think about it, joggers and cyclists getting run or knocked over or having heart attacks from to much exercise as well.


And this is where I think common sense comes in to it, there is a risk in everything. As I said in the village near me people are organising amongst themselves when they go out & those have cars are taking their dogs to local fields/woods (less than a 5min car journey) so they don't clog up the very narrow pavements. It seems to be working well & someone has spoken to the local community support officer who hasn't got an issue with it unless things change


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> and there by passing on the virus so perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to go out at all. Think about it, joggers and cyclists getting run or knocked over or having heart attacks from to much exercise as well.


We are allowed to go out. With the social distancing and taking care, the nhs isn't overwhelmed. They can manage the odd accident and cope with numbers of infected, what they don't want are car crashes and the virus running rampant. In some countries people aren't allowed out. Let's not abuse what little freedom we have.

Like I tried to say a car crash might involve the fire service to cut people out of the vehicles and control any fire, ambulances and paramedics to take people (plural) to hospital. Accident investigators. The police to control any traffic and people to clear up after it and get the road opened up. One jogger having a heart attack, or even a cyclist crashing into walkers doesn't involve so much, or so many and doesn't involve a trip to the garage to fill up. We can still drive when necessary, we're just asked to keep it to essential travel.


----------



## rona

Just seen...........Jackpot Joy advert................. 85 staying alive 

A bit insensitive ..................


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> If they are selling online, then they are not restricted at the moment I'm still allowed to sell my cat toys online


high street shop


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> We are allowed to go out. With the social distancing and taking care, the nhs isn't overwhelmed. They can manage the odd accident and cope with numbers of infected, what they don't want are car crashes and the virus running rampant. In some countries people aren't allowed out. Let's not abuse what little freedom we have.
> 
> Like I tried to say a car crash might involve the fire service to cut people out of the vehicles and control any fire, ambulances and paramedics to take people (plural) to hospital. Accident investigators. The police to control any traffic and people to clear up after it and get the road opened up. One jogger having a heart attack, or even a cyclist crashing into walkers doesn't involve so much, or so many and doesn't involve a trip to the garage to fill up. We can still drive when necessary, we're just asked to keep it to essential travel.


I would hope that with less cars on the road there will be less serious crashes but yes, driving miles to beauty spots not so good but I understand why people are driving locally. 
I passed by an old peoples home earlier, a funeral hearse was there, a group of about 9 or 10 mourners plus several staff spilling out onto the pavement , their cars parked along the road. Very sad but how necessary was it that they came to the Home and not straight to the church or crematorium. ?


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> And this is where I think common sense comes in to it, there is a risk in everything. As I said in the village near me people are organising amongst themselves when they go out & those have cars are taking their dogs to local fields/woods (less than a 5min car journey) so they don't clog up the very narrow pavements. It seems to be working well & someone has spoken to the local community support officer who hasn't got an issue with it unless things change


That sounds a good idea. Outside my home and along to the park, the roads are narrow and lots of vans and cars parked on the pavements and nearly blocking them. Today I got up to the park ok but coming back , people were coming towards me on both sides so i went into the road and walked along , luckily no cars but not a good idea when you're deaf


----------



## Nonnie

Driving isnt the issue, its DIY related hospital admissions.

My friend works for an ambulance service as a 999 call centre team leader (it has a proper title but i can never remember it) and they are already taking more calls relating to accidents in the home and garden.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Jesthar said:


> I usually grow tomatoes at home - I have the gro-bag, but probably won't be able to get any plants now!


I remember by father always used to grow his from seed - takes a bit longer but they taste just as good ! He even used to save seeds from tomatoes that Mum had bought when shopping, dry them and plant those out too - OK not a lot of them succeeded but enough did take for our needs


----------



## rona

Out of work......want to become a key worker an feed the nation?
https://www.cla.org.uk/help-feed-nation?utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=help feed the nation&utm_date43920&utm_content=lp#

"As a result of travel restrictions and illness, the agricultural sector could face a shortage of up to 80,000 seasonal labour workers.

Time is critical as the picking of soft fruit is due to begin in April, vegetable growers are already beginning to crop and lambing season has reached its peak".


----------



## Elles

Nonnie said:


> Driving isnt the issue, its DIY related hospital admissions.
> 
> My friend works for an ambulance service as a 999 call centre team leader (it has a proper title but i can never remember it) and they are already taking more calls relating to accidents in the home and garden.


They will do, of course. More people are at home. If they were all out driving instead, they'd be taking more calls to traffic accidents. If they were all swimming in a lake, they'd be attending more drowning incidents. We're idiots and in the USA they even give us guns so we can shoot ourselves and each other. 

To me it makes perfect sense for folk to stick to exercising locally and not drive anywhere unless absolutely essential, until the pandemic is over, under control, or they've found a cure/ vaccine. I don't need it to be law, I'm convinced it's for the best. In the meantime, I'm bored too, my dog is fatter and my son can't come home. I've seen people out and about taking a daily constitutional, whose main exercise pre lockdown, was walking to the pub and back and even that sometimes involved a taxi. I'd normally say something sarcastic like "Hiya, are you ill, or something?", but given the circumstances. :Hilarious


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Literally millions of people would normally cram together at football matches and other sporting events each week in the UK. Stopped. Hundreds of thousands of people would normally gather together at the theatre, cinema and other arts events around the country each week. Stopped. Millions of people would normally be jammed together in restaurants and pubs around the country each week. Stopped. Millions of people would normally be mingling together in shopping centres every day in the UK. Stopped. Millions of people would be using the trains, buses and aeroplanes each day. Mostly stopped. 

But a few dog walkers want to drive a few minutes away to find solitude, peace and benefit for their mental health in these awful times. Where is the perspective?


----------



## Bertie'sMum

rona said:


> Out of work......want to become a key worker an feed the nation?
> https://www.cla.org.uk/help-feed-nation?utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=help feed the nation&utm_date43920&utm_content=lp#
> 
> "As a result of travel restrictions and illness, the agricultural sector could face a shortage of up to 80,000 seasonal labour workers.
> 
> Time is critical as the picking of soft fruit is due to begin in April, vegetable growers are already beginning to crop and lambing season has reached its peak".


This has been concerning me too

1) Do you realise just how much of our fresh veg and fruit comes from overseas ? Strawberries from Spain; blueberries from Chile; green beans from Gambia are a few that spring to mind - just check the labels. How soon before they begin to be in short (or non-existent supply ?)

2) Our own farmers have fields full of fresh produce, but who is going to pick and pack it ? Seasonal workers from eastern European countries won't be allowed into the country so I foresee shortages of home grown produce tor is it all going to be allowed to rot in the ground ?


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> But a few dog walkers want to drive a few minutes away to find solitude, peace and benefit for their mental health in these awful times. *Where is the perspective?*


Focussed on reducing the travel radius of individuals in order to protect the many, in order significantly limit the spread of a virus that badly impacts the most vulnerable people in society.

Plus in general it wasn't a 'few', it was the world and his idiot mother that was doing it and refusing to obey social distancing rules in the process.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> We're idiots and in the USA they even give us guns so we can shoot ourselves and each other.


Nah, no free guns here. You have to buy or steal them.

But in all seriousness I wouldn't joke about people shooting themselves given the very real possibility of suicide rates increasing because of the social upheaval of this virus. People are out of work, not getting paid. Small businesses are losing their livelihood. 
Communities have really rallied and come together, and I'm so hopeful about the human race seeing how my own little state has handled this, but the short term crisis is real.


----------



## rona




----------



## Elles

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Literally millions of people would normally cram together at football matches and other sporting events each week in the UK. Stopped. Hundreds of thousands of people would normally gather together at the theatre, cinema and other arts events around the country each week. Stopped. Millions of people would normally be jammed together in restaurants and pubs around the country each week. Stopped. Millions of people would normally be mingling together in shopping centres every day in the UK. Stopped. Millions of people would be using the trains, buses and aeroplanes each day. Mostly stopped.
> 
> But a few dog walkers want to drive a few minutes away to find solitude, peace and benefit for their mental health in these awful times. Where is the perspective?


One rule for football supporters, one rule for dog walkers eh. The millions of bored football supporters were driving to find somewhere nice for their mental health. They were parking in the overflow car parks and along the roads and cramming themselves together in parks, forestry, beaches.. You want the government to say that those living rurally can drive and spread it about a bit, it's not fair, they already have less risk of catching it than someone in Birmingham or London? Why should Devon hospitals be under less pressure than London ones, they can cope with a few more patients. Let's at it. Have dog, will travel. The pooch rehoming centres will be empty in no time.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Nah, no free guns here. You have to buy or steal them.
> 
> But in all seriousness I wouldn't joke about people shooting themselves given the very real possibility of suicide rates increasing because of the social upheaval of this virus. People are out of work, not getting paid. Small businesses are losing their livelihood.
> Communities have really rallied and come together, and I'm so hopeful about the human race seeing how my own little state has handled this, but the short term crisis is real.


Yeah, dv numbers are already up over here. The human race seems full of losers. 
In my original post though, I was talking about accidents. With chainsaws, cars, guns.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> but I understand why people are driving locally.


I dont understand it! To me local is somewhere within walking distance...if you have to drive then it isnt local (maybe its because I am a life long walker and cars are luxury travel to me!LOL).
Its stupid to think you are the exception to the rule though surely? I mean every person that drives to an 'out of the way' place to walk their dog runs the risk of meeting someone from miles away who has the same idea, whats to say that they dont then go and visit grannie and grandpa or decide to hole up in their holiday home several hundred miles away? If one of you has the virus you have now spread it halfway across the country!
So please stay at home and stay out of my hospital!:Nurse:Wacky


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Elles said:


> One rule for football supporters, one rule for dog walkers eh. The millions of bored football supporters were driving to find somewhere nice for their mental health. They were parking in the overflow car parks and along the roads and cramming themselves together in parks, forestry, beaches.. You want the government to say that those living rurally can drive and spread it about a bit, it's not fair, they already have less risk of catching it than someone in Birmingham or London? Why should Devon hospitals be under less pressure than London ones, they can cope with a few more patients. Let's at it. Have dog, will travel. The pooch rehoming centres will be empty in no time.


You really have missed my point completely and utterly, haven't you. Never mind. There also seems to be this need at the moment to not only find a logical way forward to rid ourselves of the virus, but to punish ourselves as well. It's a very odd world we're living in right now.


----------



## lorilu

catz4m8z said:


> I dont understand it! To me local is somewhere within walking distance...if you have to drive then it isnt local (maybe its because I am a life long walker and cars are luxury travel to me!LOL).
> Its stupid to think you are the exception to the rule though surely? I mean every person that drives to an 'out of the way' place to walk their dog runs the risk of meeting someone from miles away who has the same idea, whats to say that they dont then go and visit grannie and grandpa or decide to hole up in their holiday home several hundred miles away? If one of you has the virus you have now spread it halfway across the country!
> So please stay at home and stay out of my hospital!:Nurse:Wacky


Completely agree. I live in a rural area, with heavy tourism in summer. Many NYC people have homes here. I've never heard so much traffic coming in from the south *in the wee hours of the night. * They are all "sneaking" in. Here's the thing, aside form the fact that who knows how many of them may already be shedding virus, our resources here are stretched already, with the local population. Now all these 'summer people' coming in 3 months early, they are going to put us in the same boat -or far worse- than what they have left.


----------



## DogLover1981

While getting groceries at the local store I overheard people in the parking lot (car park) talking about how the virus is a hoax. They seemed to think the virus is merely a huge joke. I was definitely practicing social distancing with those two. Do these people even watch the news?


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> I dont understand it! To me local is somewhere within walking distance...if you have to drive then it isnt local (maybe its because I am a life long walker and cars are luxury travel to me!LOL).


I am not driving, but I can say that if I was I would still go to the places that I am walking to. I would certainly be less risk to others and them to me, as I would meet no one or one or two at the time I walk. I make huge efforts to not touch gates or anything else while I'm out.
Many of those "local" places have been fenced by "conservationists", herding everyone through alleys of less than 2 meters wide 
What I would not do, if I drove, is having to run the gauntlet of the masses when I return home


----------



## Siskin

Oh dear, the death toll today is awful, including a 19 year old with no underlying health issues. I was hoping it was steadying a little


----------



## O2.0

I wonder how much is perception and how much is reality when it comes to people not observing social distancing?
My perception is that folks are doing a really good job.
Everywhere I've been of late has had new rules and practices in place and people are happy to comply:
- Went to our local pharmacy. Stay in your car, call in, someone comes out, takes your information, cash or credit card, goes in, gets your prescription and you're done. Only interaction is through the car window, just one person as opposed to numerous had the store itself been open.
- Small local grocery store has a worker on duty wiping down the cart/buggy before you take it. Wipes it down when you're done. Another worker keeping the till and check out counters wiped down. 
- Big chain store has marked spots taped to the floor to mark where to stand in line (queue) to keep a good distance between customers. Same thing, someone wiping down carts another person wiping down check out counters and the till used to pay. 
- Out running in town, plenty of people out but everyone giving each other a wide berth if you have to pass. Smiles and waves, but no close proximity. 

I think for this area the biggest difference is going to be that schools are closed, after school activities like sports and clubs are disbanded, church services, choir practices etc, are either online or suspended. This is the height of spring sports season, baseball, softball, soccer for all ages, and none of these groups are congregating, that's hopefully going to make a decent dent in flattening the curve. 

And of course it's also spring break season, all our beaches are closed to the public, hotels and resorts all along the "******* riviera" are closed. It's a good thing to help prevent the spread of the virus, it's going to be financially devastating for many though.


----------



## Elles

samuelsmiles3 said:


> You really have missed my point completely and utterly, haven't you. Never mind. There also seems to be this need at the moment to not only find a logical way forward to rid ourselves of the virus, but to punish ourselves as well. It's a very odd world we're living in right now.


My point is that because people didn't socially isolate and take precautions, but acted as though it was one giant holiday, more people were infected than necessary, too many more and our nhs will be overwhelmed, so now we all have to stay home and in our locality. That means all of us. It's not a punishment, it's what we have to do in a pandemic. Living rurally doesn't make anyone special, other than for them staying local is probably a lot more pleasant than for city dwellers, even they do have to check before they take the narrow street out and walk on the road.

If we keep the numbers manageable, I expect we'll get more freedoms soon. As one group heal and develop immunities and recovered health care staff return to work, the hospitals will be able to manage better.


----------



## Elles

Siskin said:


> Oh dear, the death toll today is awful, including a 19 year old with no underlying health issues. I was hoping it was steadying a little


 The guy yesterday said although numbers of admissions were still rising, the rate it was increasing had slowed a bit. It does seem to affect some of us really badly. That is very sad news.


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> Completely agree. I live in a rural area, with heavy tourism in summer. Many NYC people have homes here. I've never heard so much traffic coming in from the south *in the wee hours of the night. * They are all "sneaking" in. Here's the thing, aside form the fact that who knows how many of them may already be shedding virus, our resources here are stretched already, with the local population. Now all these 'summer people' coming in 3 months early, they are going to put us in the same boat -or far worse- than what they have left.


I think I read that in some counties of NC they've put up road blocks to make sure people coming in and out have legitimate reason to do so. 
Not gonna lie, if I were in NYC and had somewhere else to go, I would. I would be very responsible about it and quarantine myself once I got to my destination, but I sure wouldn't want to be stuck in NYC right now.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> The guy yesterday said although numbers of admissions were still rising, the rate it was increasing had slowed a bit. It does seem to affect some of us really badly. That is very sad news.


Statisitically speaking it's likely to keep rising sharply for another week, given that the incubation period is 7-10 days and until lockdown was announced there was widespread non-compliance with social distancing.

I'm sure the hard-of-thinking will be whining that this means lockdown is having no effect - er, no, it just means it takes time to have a visible benefit.


----------



## Elles

It is ridiculous how hard it is. It’s been no time at all and I am forced to go out, so I’m not as stuck as most people. For me personally, most of the time I spend either doing something that means I can forget about it for a bit, living in some kind of state of disbelief, or every now and then reality washes over, it all seems too much and I want to run outside, screaming “I am not a Number!” 

I think I’m getting overtired. :Hilarious

How are you guys coping with it?


----------



## catz4m8z

Elles said:


> or every now and then reality washes over, it all seems too much and I want to run outside, screaming "I am not a Number!"


At the main entrance to my hospital you can hear a disembodied female voice telling people over and over again to wash their hands and stay home...it always gives me 1984 vibes!:Nailbiting


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> I dont understand it! To me local is somewhere within walking distance...if you have to drive then it isnt local (maybe its because I am a life long walker and cars are luxury travel to me!LOL).
> Its stupid to think you are the exception to the rule though surely? I mean every person that drives to an 'out of the way' place to walk their dog runs the risk of meeting someone from miles away who has the same idea, whats to say that they dont then go and visit grannie and grandpa or decide to hole up in their holiday home several hundred miles away? If one of you has the virus you have now spread it halfway across the country!
> So please stay at home and stay out of my hospital!:Nurse:Wacky


Loads of people are now walking where I have walked since 2003 and rarely saw a soul, whatever time I went. I many are driving too.. It's just on the edge of town. 
Many seem to have the same idea, it's definitely in walking distance I would say you can literally walk any where in my town though; albeit you encounter a hill or two that are rather steep. Though I guess the 2 villages that are conurbations may do the same now, thinking they may avoid others, and the 2 villages 2 miles away might do the same thinking it might be easier to social distance when walking the dog.. So when they might have all touched their face, getting their hair out of their face, after using the poo bin, or the gate entrance with out thinking, scratching their face subconsciously touched the door handle in the car etc then used the handle gel maybe, maybe not before driving off i get how it can travel.


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> How are you guys coping with it?


In a strange kind of personal level, I'm kinda enjoying it. :Shamefullyembarrased
I've never needed other people and do everything I can to avoid contact. Well, most are doing the same now.......................
I must admit to not having had or will have for the foreseeable, problems with food and have no immediate money worries. 
I feel lucky

I do feel dreadful for my friend with terminal cancer and my niece who until recently was sectioned.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Sacremist said:


> Tbh, I'm not convinced anything will work with many of these cretins, who flout the rules. They would need a brain for that and they appear to be sharing a single brain cell.


Cretins not taking it seriously. Cretins don't care about others. It's frightening.


----------



## Elles

I wonder how many ordinary* people have to be admitted to hospital to be treated. There are people who are generally younger and healthier who have died when they haven’t been treated. It would be good if they told us how many otherwise healthy people had to be admitted and for how long, how many have now recovered and how it’s treated. Instead of dwelling on deaths all the time. 

So we know that what we’re doing to keep hospital beds available is worth it and is saving lives. Otherwise I can see that to some it just sounds like we’re all staying at home so that people who will inevitably die have a hospital bed and intensive care to do it in, all alone, isolated from their loved ones and without reason. I keep seeing over and over, “yeah but they’d just die anyway”. Well if you’re 39 and your underlying problem is dandruff, no you wouldn’t.


----------



## Siskin

As we’re retired I’m used to being at home a lot, as I’ve not been that well for a while we haven’t done that much.

Things I am missing is spending time at the static caravan, going out for a meal with various different friends and oddly going food shopping

I’m in touch with most of our neighbours either via the phone or emails. Chap across the road sends me funny memes and videos he’s find, I reciprocate. Kindly he sent me some pictures of carpets of primroses where he took the dog for a walk just in case I was missing such a pretty spring sight.


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Completely agree. I live in a rural area, with heavy tourism in summer. Many NYC people have homes here. I've never heard so much traffic coming in from the south *in the wee hours of the night. * They are all "sneaking" in. Here's the thing, aside form the fact that who knows how many of them may already be shedding virus, our resources here are stretched already, with the local population. Now all these 'summer people' coming in 3 months early, they are going to put us in the same boat -or far worse- than what they have left.


This is an issue in holiday hotspots over here. There has been no end of arguments on a caravan forum I belong to due to some people trying to self isolate in their holiday homes. Locals in those areas are angry for the exact same reasons you mention here. Many of these parks have now closed and asked owners to give reasons why they cannot vacate their property. Only those with good reason are allowed to stay.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> I wonder how many ordinary* people have to be admitted to hospital to be treated. There are people who are generally younger and healthier who have died when they haven't been treated. It would be good if they told us how many otherwise healthy people had to be admitted and for how long, how many have now recovered and how it's treated. Instead of dwelling on deaths all the time.
> 
> So we know that what we're doing to keep hospital beds available is worth it and is saving lives. Otherwise I can see that to some it just sounds like we're all staying at home so that people who will inevitably die have a hospital bed and intensive care to do it in, all alone, isolated from their loved ones and without reason. I keep seeing over and over, "yeah but they'd just die anyway". Well if you're 39 and your underlying problem is dandruff, no you wouldn't.


This was touched on in the government meeting today. They can't really get all the figures until after it passes. They tried to specify that it isn't age related. Just because you are young and fit, doesn't mean you might not get severe symptoms and need hospital treatment albeit oxygen and CPAP so they were emphasising don't get complacent 
Lockdown being a week, so admissions may get lower, but already those who have picked up virus before so in its incubation stage, symptom free hence the peak they are saying 2 weeks from now. 
So in theory this is the scary wait, have you picked up the virus before hand. Is it going to effect you.

Can't remember his name, but that Dr on YouTube who keeps reporting says he's interested to know is there a link that more men are getting it than women. Have to look at stats for that, as in population stats of men vs women. He didn't comment on that just wondered if biological rather than just habits are men predisposed due to biology to be affected more. It was only a brief mention though.

Randomly off topic to your thoughts @Elles the more I watch the government's updates, the more I think how stupid some journalists are. Today was one of the best.. Why are some people in factories, manufacturing still going to work when they are not essential, and call centres for things like insurances... My husband is in engineering he can't do this from home. He has suggested running a lead from work to home and working in our garden as we live round the corner. They said No, surprisingly. A lot of the clients are food places, pharmaceuticals, that type of things. He therefore goes in to factories to maintain and repair at times. He can social distance. It's easier than in a supermarket as far as I know. Some people do, do manual work. It's our infrastructure.
As for call centres many are working from home, lo and behold if you need it when lock down. I would be certainly be upset if I couldn't get essential care for my dogs if they all shut up shop.Rant over.


----------



## catz4m8z

Elles said:


> So we know that what we're doing to keep hospital beds available is worth it and is saving lives. Otherwise I can see that to some it just sounds like we're all staying at home so that people who will inevitably die have a hospital bed and intensive care to do it in, all alone, isolated from their loved ones and without reason. I keep seeing over and over, "yeah but they'd just die anyway". Well if you're 39 and your underlying problem is dandruff, no you wouldn't.


Alot of the patients on the wards with covid either just need a little bit of oxygen to help them or they may come in with a cough and temperature along with other issues and the covid doesnt really add to their problems. 
So alot of the time its the access to oxygen that is important for the less serious hospital admissions. So you can see how important it is to keep as many beds open as possible, lots and lots of people recover well with that bit of support but they do need an available bed with oxygen to get them over the worst.


----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> I dont understand it! To me local is somewhere within walking distance...if you have to drive then it isnt local (maybe its because I am a life long walker and cars are luxury travel to me!LOL).


I suppose it would depend on how far you can walk , how far in mileage would you say was local ? The council shut the park next to the town but others in the Borough are open except for the childrens play areas are locked and the gym equipment fenced off,

This is on the council website . I tweeted them about having to drive to get to them but not had a reply yet.

Residents are still able to access all of our parks for essential daily exercise - whether that is for runs, cycles or walks.

Find parks near you

The council believes that by keeping parks and green spaces open it will provide residents with opportunities for physical activity and help mental wellbeing - particularly for those without a garden.

However we encourage residents to adhere to government guidance, otherwise we will have to close these important facilities.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> How are you guys coping with it?


I'm an introvert - working from home with just the cats for company and no social expectations is an ideal scenario for me! Just wish it wasn't under such unfortunate circumstances...


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> I suppose it would depend on how far you can walk , how far in mileage would you say was local ?


This is also an issue. To some, a mile or two is a long walk, to me that wouldn't even register as a walk, unless up a mountain
I saw a 76 year old cousin today while out and he said he'd done a 16 mile bike ride yesterday.
How long is a piece of string?


----------



## Sacrechat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> You really have missed my point completely and utterly, haven't you. Never mind. There also seems to be this need at the moment to not only find a logical way forward to rid ourselves of the virus, but to punish ourselves as well. It's a very odd world we're living in right now.


Honestly, I missed your point too. Perhaps if you had explained yourself better instead of rambling on about events pre Covid 19 being stopped, we may have understood the point you were making. I really don't see what your first paragraph has to do with people obeying the rules now in our new normal.


----------



## mrs phas

Latest death, just 13 years old

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uks-youngest-coronavirus-victim-21789319


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> Latest death, just 13 years old
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uks-youngest-coronavirus-victim-21789319


Terrible news


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> Latest death, just 13 years old
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uks-youngest-coronavirus-victim-21789319


That's so sad!


----------



## kimthecat

No Neighbours or Home and Away I must have played Jewels of Atlantis a thousand times already ,


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Sacremist said:


> Honestly, I missed your point too. Perhaps if you had explained yourself better instead of rambling on about events pre Covid 19 being stopped, we may have understood the point you were making. I really don't see what your first paragraph has to do with people obeying the rules now in our new normal.


Really? It couldn't be more simple. The point I was making was that we have, correctly (I hope), sacrificed almost everything to try to stop the virus. Anything that involved close contact with other people including sports events, pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas, most shops, travel on trains, buses, aeroplanes, shopping centres, businesses, small companies, large companies, music events, places of work, places of worship. Most everything. Millions upon millions upon millions of points of close contact removed. Fine.

But, don't suck the last dregs of joy out of our lives by banning us from safely seeking some solace and peace in isolated places. Where I walk at the moment people are almost diving out of each other's way to avoid getting within a few metres of each other.

For pities sake, just leave us with something to cling to.


----------



## Sacrechat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Really? It couldn't be more simple. The point I was making was that we have, correctly (I hope), sacrificed almost everything to try to stop the virus. Anything that involved close contact with other people including sports events, pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas, most shops, travel on trains, buses, aeroplanes, shopping centres, businesses, small companies, large companies, music events, places of work, places of worship. Most everything. Millions upon millions upon millions of points of close contact removed. Fine.
> 
> But, don't suck the last dregs of joy out of our lives by banning us from safely seeking some solace and peace in isolated places. Where I walk at the moment people are almost diving out of each other's way to avoid getting within a few metres of each other.
> 
> For pities sake, just leave us with something to cling to.


Well, based on that, I have to say that you are missing the point of why they are imposing these rules. I'm not going to reiterate it again here, because others have already pointed out why over and over again, so rather than keep repeating the reasons why, which all make perfect sense to me, I suggest you read through the entire thread to see what has been said.


----------



## lullabydream

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Really? It couldn't be more simple. The point I was making was that we have, correctly (I hope), sacrificed almost everything to try to stop the virus. Anything that involved close contact with other people including sports events, pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas, most shops, travel on trains, buses, aeroplanes, shopping centres, businesses, small companies, large companies, music events, places of work, places of worship. Most everything. Millions upon millions upon millions of points of close contact removed. Fine.
> 
> But, don't suck the last dregs of joy out of our lives by banning us from safely seeking some solace and peace in isolated places. Where I walk at the moment people are almost diving out of each other's way to avoid getting within a few metres of each other.
> 
> For pities sake, just leave us with something to cling to.


The point is, the drive to what you consider an isolated walk probably isn't.. Other people have had probably had the same thought.Let's just nip in the car, we aren't risking others. It's a short journey.

We don't know these measures are working just yet.

Over a million have been asked to stay in doors and use the windows to have fresh at.. I guess their mental health doesn't matter? Co morbidity with long term health conditions is rife. However, they have little choice to comply. They know they are high risk, they know getting ill know would be putting additional strain on an over worked NHS anyway. They may need the NHS help sooner due to their health problem and they don't need to complicate the risk. Hence why they are most probably using all the resources they have been given on mental health. They shouldn't even be near loved ones in their own house, as they should be practising shielding.

Our lockdown could be a lot worse, more draconian, more police to enforce rules.

We are all in this together. Everyone is suffering in some way or another.

To me if it saves lives, stops a pandemic am not going to be happy about it all, I don't think anyone is, but no point in complaining as no one has different rules enforced on them. No one is being told any different. Everytime I see frustration from an NHS worker, or a young healthy person in the media struggling with Covid-19 for once the media gives me perspective. Not just in the media but here too, friends explaining how tough it is at work currently and just a reminder to all. There is a member of this forum who is currently on a ventilator due to this horrible pandemic too. Nothing updated since so please remember that this is very real to some.


----------



## DogLover1981

You know, if I had kids that were old enough, I'd probably encourage them to write a daily journal of daily life with even random mundane stuff like their meals each day. This pandemic has shut down businesses and schools throughout the world which is quite historic and I'm willing to bet people will be talking about it all even a hundred years from now. I can see kids telling their grandchildren about it a long time from now and they might love looking back at their journal far into the future.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Elles said:


> I wonder how many ordinary* people have to be admitted to hospital to be treated. There are people who are generally younger and healthier who have died when they haven't been treated. It would be good if they told us how many otherwise healthy people had to be admitted and for how long, how many have now recovered and how it's treated. Instead of dwelling on deaths all the time.
> 
> So we know that what we're doing to keep hospital beds available is worth it and is saving lives. Otherwise I can see that to some it just sounds like we're all staying at home so that people who will inevitably die have a hospital bed and intensive care to do it in, all alone, isolated from their loved ones and without reason. I keep seeing over and over, "yeah but they'd just die anyway". Well if you're 39 and your underlying problem is dandruff, no you wouldn't.


I know how you feel. All news channels are now Corona TV. Surely there are still other things happening. 
I'm too frightened to go out now. Not even for a walk  I tried to order some instant mash on Amazon. They were charging £13 for it... absolutely disgusting profiteering.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

I just heard that  


mrs phas said:


> Latest death, just 13 years old
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uks-youngest-coronavirus-victim-21789319


----------



## Elles

MissMiloKitty said:


> I know how you feel. All news channels are now Corona TV.
> I'm too frightened to go out now. I tried to order some instant mash on Amazon. They were charging £13 for it... absolutely disgusting profiteering.


Yes it is.  Where are you? Is there anyone who can help you?


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Elles said:


> Yes it is.  Where are you? Is there anyone who can help you?


Thanks.
I've ordered food box from Booths, hopefully I will be able to get one next week.


----------



## Elles

.


----------



## MollySmith

@DogLover1981 and anyone else interested in writing a diary, this study is seeking volunteers


----------



## MollySmith

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Really? It couldn't be more simple. The point I was making was that we have, correctly (I hope), sacrificed almost everything to try to stop the virus. Anything that involved close contact with other people including sports events, pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas, most shops, travel on trains, buses, aeroplanes, shopping centres, businesses, small companies, large companies, music events, places of work, places of worship. Most everything. Millions upon millions upon millions of points of close contact removed. Fine.
> 
> But, don't suck the last dregs of joy out of our lives by banning us from safely seeking some solace and peace in isolated places. Where I walk at the moment people are almost diving out of each other's way to avoid getting within a few metres of each other.
> 
> For pities sake, just leave us with something to cling to.


@Sacremist posted a link to a truly awful radio interview a few pages back, I recommend listening and there is your answer. It's also found in the panic buyers and the idiots that congregated on Skegness sea front queuing for chips after the government said stay indoors, the weekend before lock down began. It's because some are thick, selfish and greedy and unable to be sensible and ruin it for everyone else. Unfortunately the 'some' of society can kill the rest. We are - scarily so - capable of killing another human being right now but that message hasn't sunk in to all.


----------



## MollySmith

Is everyone holding up okay in the circumstances? I've become my dog...

Virtual hugs to those who need it. @Elles I've done the same with my energy levels, indulging in afternoon nap today. I _never_ do that!


----------



## picaresque

Magyarmum said:


> Relax everyone!
> American televangelist Kenneth Copeland has just vanquished COVID-19 from the world with a Christian magic spell.
> Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157816446706634


Kind of jarring hearing all that Jesus talk from someone who looks like Satan in human form.


----------



## SusieRainbow

DogLover1981 said:


> You know, if I had kids that were old enough, I'd probably encourage them to write a daily journal of daily life with even random mundane stuff like their meals each day. This pandemic has shut down businesses and schools throughout the world which is quite historic and I'm willing to bet people will be talking about it all even a hundred years from now. I can see kids telling their grandchildren about it a long time from now and they might love looking back at their journal far into the future.


My 9 yr old grandson is doing just that, it will be fantastic historical insight for his grandchildren. It's really quite reminiscent of The Plague isn't it ?Though we have so much more medical knowledge and resources than then.


----------



## picaresque

mrs phas said:


> Latest death, just 13 years old
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uks-youngest-coronavirus-victim-21789319


Especially sad that his family couldn't be with him.


----------



## kimthecat

picaresque said:


> Especially sad that his family couldn't be with him.


 Poor lad dying alone.

Newsreader George Alagiah tested positive for Covid 19. he has been having chemo for bowel cancer but is doing well. It as good to see him on the news interview . You would never guess he had both cancer and Covid.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8172887/George-Alagiah-tests-positive-coronavirus.html


----------



## kimthecat

Professor Karol Sikora
@ProfKarolSikora
·
8h
Professor Peter Doherty, a Nobel Prize winner for work on the immune system, has stated that Coronavirus reinfection is unlikely. Even if it happened, he thinks the prior infection would mean a very speedy recovery. I believe you should be immune for some time after recovery.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Professor Karol Sikora
> @ProfKarolSikora
> ·
> 8h
> Professor Peter Doherty, a Nobel Prize winner for work on the immune system, has stated that Coronavirus reinfection is unlikely. Even if it happened, he thinks the prior infection would mean a very speedy recovery. I believe you should be immune for some time after recovery.


Does he guess at how long?


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Does he guess at how long?


Am guessing its basic biology. Once you have had the virus. Your immune system has memory cells to recognise it, depends how long these last.. Hence vaccine recommendation protocols. 
So how efficient a person's immune system kicks in matters is a factor. They haven't said about any drugs hindering this yet, but it could be a factor. Of course all this data will be gathered afterwards. 
Then of course for some weird and wonderful reason some people might have a natural immunity for no reason at all.

Am one of those strange people who *touchwood* has never had chickenpox ever. I have been round my sons with chicken pox, my nephews and a lot of children with being in nurseries and schools. Chicken pox is very nasty in adults and can lead to extremely severe complications that can be life threatening. I don't know how I have missed it though.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> Does he guess at how long?


Sorry I dont know . That was all there was in the tweet , 

Ok so self isolation and a real dilemma . Who do you ask for help , who do you put at risk ? people going shopping buying food etc for neighbours as well is ok but what about having to ask people to go in chemists for your prescription for example ? Youy are putting them at risk , how would you feel if they did catch it.

OH is going to get my prescription from my usual chemist so i asked my sister if she needed hers or her husbands. Turns out they do , his is for epilepsy and he is over 70 and hers is for thyroid as she had hers removed due to thyroid cancer. Then she says can you get tropical fish food as they have only one day of food left 

Anyway , it turns out she has her prescription from another chemist from another parade of shops and I said that I dont want OH to go to another place we dont usually go to . I told her to ask her neighbour but she doesnt want to. I feel I am asking too much of my OH to put himself at risk but I know in the end we will give in and he will get it .


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> Sorry I dont know . That was all there was in the tweet ,
> 
> Ok so self isolation and a real dilemma . Who do you ask for help , who do you put at risk ? people going shopping buying food etc for neighbours as well is ok but what about having to ask people to go in chemists for your prescription for example ? Youy are putting them at risk , how would you feel if they did catch it.
> 
> OH is going to get my prescription from my usual chemist so i asked my sister if she needed hers or her husbands. Turns out they do , his is for epilepsy and he is over 70 and hers is for thyroid as she had hers removed due to thyroid cancer. Then she says can you get tropical fish food as they have only one day of food left
> 
> Anyway , it turns out she has her prescription from another chemist from another parade of shops and I said that I dont want OH to go to another place we dont usually go to . I told her to ask her neighbour but she doesnt want to. I feel I am asking too much of my OH to put himself at risk but I know in the end we will give in and he will get it .


Phone your chemist and ask if there's any way her prescription can be transferred? Or see if she can get a new prescription sent to your chemist for now?


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Sorry I dont know . That was all there was in the tweet ,
> 
> Ok so self isolation and a real dilemma . Who do you ask for help , who do you put at risk ? people going shopping buying food etc for neighbours as well is ok but what about having to ask people to go in chemists for your prescription for example ? Youy are putting them at risk , how would you feel if they did catch it.
> 
> OH is going to get my prescription from my usual chemist so i asked my sister if she needed hers or her husbands. Turns out they do , his is for epilepsy and he is over 70 and hers is for thyroid as she had hers removed due to thyroid cancer. Then she says can you get tropical fish food as they have only one day of food left
> 
> Anyway , it turns out she has her prescription from another chemist from another parade of shops and I said that I dont want OH to go to another place we dont usually go to . I told her to ask her neighbour but she doesnt want to. I feel I am asking too much of my OH to put himself at risk but I know in the end we will give in and he will get it .


As long as OH social distances, washes hands before and when he comes back that's all he can really do.

As I said before @kimthecat I don't really want to go out every other day to get essentials, then I have the dilemma of pay more at the corner shop or try a supermarket. Corner shop maybe small but can be empty but has probably had a lot of people in, though they are trying their best to social distance.

The chemist round here are being really good and not allowing many people in. Have people waiting around.

If you are really worried about OH he could wear gloves or shower when he comes in.


----------



## kimthecat

Thanks @lullabydream and @Elles Good idea!

RSPCA download label

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/l...oronavirusPetCarePlan&utm_campaign=AdvicePets


----------



## MilleD

I've just turned my calendar over to April. Very apt....


----------



## Siskin

I was sent this.



****************************************

This may be of interest to people, it is apparently from Johns Hopkins University and is a summary to avoid contagion:

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipids (fats) which, if absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or mouth mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and converts them into multiplier and attacker cells.

* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and the type of material in which it is found.

* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That's why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam BREAKS THE GREASE (that's why you have to rub so much: for at least 20 seconds or more, and make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

HEAT melts the fat; then use water above 25 degrees to wash your hands, clothes and everything else. In addition, hot water produces more foam which makes it even more useful.

* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol greater than 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

* Any mixture with 1 part of bleach and 5 parts of water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

* Hydrogen peroxide helps a lot after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the proteins of the virus, but you have to use it pure and it hurts the skin.

NO BACTERICIDES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; one cannot kill with antibiotics what is not alive, but rapidly disintegrate its structure with all that has been said.

* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or clothing. While it is glued on a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all moisture and does not let it detach and disintegrates), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours and can settle in your nose.

Viral molecules remain very stable in external or artificial cold like air conditioners in homes and cars. They also need moisture to remain stable and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it more quickly.

* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is a protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.

* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break the protective layer of fat.

NO ALCOHOL or VODKA. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol and you need 65%.

* LISTERINA (it's an American mouthwash) IF YOU NEED IT! It's 65% alcohol.

* The more space is limited, the higher the concentration of the virus. More open or naturally ventilated, less.

* This is super said, but you have to wash your hands before and after touching the mucous membrane, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

* You must HUMIDIFY DRY HANDS, for example wash them a lot, because molecules can hide in micro wrinkles or cuts. The denser the moisturizer, the better.

* Also keep your SHORT NAILS so that the virus doesn't hide there.


----------



## Magyarmum

Just released by the Israeli Government.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=645691412881587


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> Just released by the Israeli Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=645691412881587


Blimey that's a scary one! 

Our ads remind me of the protect and survive ones, when we were told to hide under a door if the Russians nuked us.


----------



## Siskin

Our local council decided to introduce a new recycling initiative mid March, it had been planned for ages. We were all issued with various new containers including a nice big food recycling bin, and a new day for collections. The system here is that all rubbish and recycling is collected every two weeks and green waste and food bin is collected weekly. The first week our food bin was left unemptied, we don’t have garden waste as this costs extra. It seems lots of other people’s bins weren't emptied either, the council said that because people were now at home they were cooking more and the food waste lorry was full by the time it got to our village. So we left the bin out in the hope they might be able to come round and collect during the week as had been intimated. Tuesday comes round and it’s the day for putting out food waste and garden waste, but it wasn’t collected again. Council said that a number of their employees were off self isolating and now they wouldn’t be collecting garden waste and don’t go to the tip as they are all closed for the time being. Not sure when our rather stinky food waste bin will be emptied.

I do wonder if councils will be unable to continue with regular bin and recycling collections. It might be wise to bear this in mind and plan where to store rubbish and recycling.


----------



## Siskin

I've just received an email from Gov.UK coronavirus support confirming I had registered as extremely vulnerable.

 GOV.UK 


Hello,

You registered as clinically extremely vulnerable, but had not received a letter from the NHS to confirm this. We'll share your details with the NHS.

If the NHS defines you as clinically extremely vulnerable, the NHS will contact you. Your GP will be informed.

If you told us you need help getting food and supplies, but you are not on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, we'll share your details with supermarkets. They may be able to help.

If you need support urgently, please contact your local authority.

For the latest information, visit https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

GOV.UK coronavirus support


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I've just received an email from Gov.UK coronavirus support confirming I had registered as extremely vulnerable.
> 
> GOV.UK
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> You registered as clinically extremely vulnerable, but had not received a letter from the NHS to confirm this. We'll share your details with the NHS.
> 
> If the NHS defines you as clinically extremely vulnerable, the NHS will contact you. Your GP will be informed.
> 
> If you told us you need help getting food and supplies, but you are not on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, we'll share your details with supermarkets. They may be able to help.
> 
> If you need support urgently, please contact your local authority.
> 
> For the latest information, visit https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
> 
> GOV.UK coronavirus support


Ive just received an sms text saying the same . I doubt if Im clinically vulnerable . The problem is they can inform the supermarkets Im vulnerable but if you cant get in touch with them on line or by phone for delivery , its not much help.


----------



## Gemmaa

Siskin said:


> I do wonder if councils will be unable to continue with regular bin and recycling collections. It might be wise to bear this in mind and plan where to store rubbish and recycling.


Our council cancelled garden waste collections last week...after we've all just paid £35 for this years subscription. They're not issuing refunds, still taking money, and we only found out via fakebook..so people who aren't aware, currently have a full bin of garden and food waste sitting out in the sun :Facepalm.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Gemmaa said:


> Our council cancelled garden waste collections last week...after we've all just paid £35 for this years subscription. They're not issuing refunds, still taking money, and we only found out via fakebook..so people who aren't aware, currently have a full bin of garden and food waste sitting out in the sun :Facepalm.


I'd ask for a refund and get a compost bin


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Our local council decided to introduce a new recycling initiative mid March, it had been planned for ages. We were all issued with various new containers including a nice big food recycling bin, and a new day for collections. The system here is that all rubbish and recycling is collected every two weeks and green waste and food bin is collected weekly. The first week our food bin was left unemptied, we don't have garden waste as this costs extra. It seems lots of other people's bins weren't emptied either, the council said that because people were now at home they were cooking more and the food waste lorry was full by the time it got to our village. So we left the bin out in the hope they might be able to come round and collect during the week as had been intimated. Tuesday comes round and it's the day for putting out food waste and garden waste, but it wasn't collected again. Council said that a number of their employees were off self isolating and now they wouldn't be collecting garden waste and don't go to the tip as they are all closed for the time being. Not sure when our rather stinky food waste bin will be emptied.
> 
> I do wonder if councils will be unable to continue with regular bin and recycling collections. It might be wise to bear this in mind and plan where to store rubbish and recycling.


Our council has suspended collecting the garden waste bin for now. We only have that and a blue bin (and bag for cardboard, don't get me started on that ridiculous thing) and general waste.

I would think for now if the food waste isn't being collected, can you put it in the general waste? Otherwise it might start causing a health risk?


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Ive just received an sms text saying the same . I doubt if Im clinically vulnerable . The problem is they can inform the supermarkets Im vulnerable but if you cant get in touch with them on line or by phone for delivery , its not much help.


I have the horrible feeling I will be the same as although I'm having radiotherapy it's not on my lungs. I've been told to stay in so that I'm as healthy as can be coming in for daily treatments and not bringing the virus into the hospital. By that token my husband has to stay in too so he doesn't pass anything to me


----------



## stuaz

Our council have also suspended food and garden waste collection. To be honest I would much prefer that, than they suspend general or recycling waste collections. At the very worst the food waste is compostable or can go in general waste.


----------



## MilleD

Holy [email protected] 563 reported deaths today. RIP 

It's be interesting to see on the briefing if new case numbers start to go down.


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> Holy [email protected] 563 reported deaths today. RIP
> 
> It's be interesting to see on the briefing if new case numbers start to go down.


We havent hit peak yet have we?

Its not 14 days since the whole social distancing fiasco where everyone treated it like a bank holiday weekend and got together in HUGE groups. I would imagine thats going to have an impact.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> We havent hit peak yet have we?
> 
> Its not 14 days since the whole social distancing fiasco where everyone treated it like a bank holiday weekend and got together in HUGE groups. I would imagine thats going to have an impact.


No, but they are expecting the effect on new cases to start being felt. I think that's what they said yesterday anyway.

Sad as it sounds, the people now dying would mainly have been infected prior to lockdown, so too late for them.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Holy [email protected] 563 reported deaths today. RIP
> 
> It's be interesting to see on the briefing if new case numbers start to go down.


And still people aren't taking this seriously


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> Holy [email protected] 563 reported deaths today. RIP
> 
> It's be interesting to see on the briefing if new case numbers start to go down.


I read on the 30th March 2020 9,000 people are being treated for Covid 19 in hospital. It does beg the question if people taking this seriously and abiding to the lockdown rules?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...h-covid-19-being-treated-in-hospital-11965880


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> I read on the 30th March 2020 9,000 people are being treated for Covid 19 in hospital. It does beg the question if people taking this seriously and abiding to the lockdown rules?
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...h-covid-19-being-treated-in-hospital-11965880


The incubation period could mean that most of those being tested at that point probably picked it up before lockdown was implemented.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> No, but they are expecting the effect on new cases to start being felt. I think that's what they said yesterday anyway.
> 
> Sad as it sounds, the people now dying would mainly have been infected prior to lockdown, so too late for them.


Death rates lowering will be the last statistic to go down, to see if the lockdown is working....so it's pretty scary numbers still for a while. They said it was expected the large leap, even though it had been consistent for a few days. This was due to those already in hospital. Don't forget we will have those extra field hospitals, so that will be more admitted sadly and more deaths likely with the peak being 2 weeks away.


----------



## Sairy

MilleD said:


> Holy [email protected] 563 reported deaths today. RIP
> 
> It's be interesting to see on the briefing if new case numbers start to go down.


New cases are still rising, however I think they are testing more people now aren't they? This is where I look:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/


----------



## MilleD

Sairy said:


> New cases are still rising, however I think they are testing more people now aren't they? This is where I look:
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/


That is an excellent site. But I really wish they'd update the recovered figure for the UK, it's said 135 for about a week now.


----------



## lullabydream

Sairy said:


> New cases are still rising, however I think they are testing more people now aren't they? This is where I look:
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/


Yes they are, but it won't be a true figure.. There's probably a lot self isolating who has just a bit of an annoying cough and had a temperature. The emphasis is most get mild symptoms hence making it such a success to spread. 
I think many would doubt they had the virus. Which makes it worrying about the self isolating conditions.


----------



## kimthecat

Regarding driving to local parks . My council replied on Twitter 
Hi, Our car parks remain open at this present time to our open spaces , but please always follow Government guidelines on social distancing. Thanks 

Today was a nightmare waking on the pavements , it seems to get busier each day or maybe it was because we went a little later than usual .

A family of five blocking of the entrance talking to someone in a garden in the h ouse next to the entrance . A lady with two little dogs was waiting to get in so we had to wait behind her. They finally dawdled off ,

Then coming back on pavement , people walking in same direction all keeping the two metres apart , a jogger running up behind us on the pavement , his spaniel not even on a lead , over took all the people , he must have been within two foot. The spaniel stop to bother my dogs and then ran off, I was so cross I shouted out , put your ****ing dog on a lead and give us more ****ing space , you ****ing idiot , I dont think he heard me as my dogs were still barking at his dog .


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Thanks @lullabydream and @Elles Good idea!
> 
> RSPCA download label
> 
> https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/l...oronavirusPetCarePlan&utm_campaign=AdvicePets


Thank you! I've put one in the window with additional instructions attached and one on the inside of the front door.


----------



## kimthecat

I took the fish food up to my sister , she had told me she had a chocolate easter bunny lindt one. I rang the bell and stood back in the drive part holding up the fish food in a bag. She opened the door and I said where's the bunny ? So she went back in and came to the door with a bag.

I said take the bunny out of the bag and slowly place it on the doorstep and keep your hands where I can see them ! Now move back in the living room . ! Which she did so then I went up and grabbed it putting the fish food in its place . ransom exchange successfully completed and we had a laugh. :Hilarious


----------



## urbantigers

Just leaving this here (apologies if it's been posted elsewhere and I've missed it).

I think some of these points need to be discussed more widely.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24...kQysqdKNv8zMZuxsD98Vb5cFn3zGvXWbkY0en4cx9QPOA


----------



## O2.0

urbantigers said:


> I think some of these points need to be discussed more widely.


Well the comparison to the flu has been discussed widely. 
Covid-19 is a novel coronavirus, not like the common cold, or some other flu viruses. Humanity has no experience with it, and our immune systems are wholly naive to this virus. As opposed to colds and flu, all of us have been exposed at some point or another to those.

The death toll may be similar to the flu in numbers (though I'm not sure that's entirely accurate), but those numbers would be spread over an entire year or at least flu season. Not overwhelming our hospitals in the span of weeks. I don't like the implication that our health care workers are not presenting the truth when they say they are well and truly overwhelmed.


----------



## urbantigers

O2.0 said:


> Well the comparison to the flu has been discussed widely.
> Covid-19 is a novel coronavirus, not like the common cold, or some other flu viruses. Humanity has no experience with it, and our immune systems are wholly naive to this virus. As opposed to colds and flu, all of us have been exposed at some point or another to those.
> 
> The death toll may be similar to the flu in numbers (though I'm not sure that's entirely accurate), but those numbers would be spread over an entire year or at least flu season. Not overwhelming our hospitals in the span of weeks. I don't like the implication that our health care workers are not presenting the truth when they say they are well and truly overwhelmed.


I think the issue though is that facts are not at the centre of most of the public discussions. I think the description of covid 19 as a virus with PR is very accurate. It's very hard to get to the facts with the current tv and social media coverage. It was pointed out to me recently that in 2017,over500,000 people died from flu. But there was no widespread panic. If we had been unable to identify this as a new virus and test for it, deaths would have been recorded as due to respiratory infection and the numbers would have been unlikely to have caused any alarm. Also it seems that if you test positive for covid 19 and die, the death will be recorded as covid 19 even if there were underlying conditions that may have been the cause of death. This will obviously inflate the statistics.

I am not saying I think this is like flu or that our health services are not overwhelmed, just that I think the hysteria surrounding this is blinding us to looking at it objectively, getting at the facts and making informed decisions. There are experts out there who disagree with a lot of what we are being told and we should not allow panic to stop us questioning what we are being told.


----------



## MilleD

urbantigers said:


> I think the issue though is that facts are not at the centre of most of the public discussions. I think the description of covid 19 as a virus with PR is very accurate. It's very hard to get to the facts with the current tv and social media coverage. It was pointed out to me recently that in 2017,over500,000 people died from flu. But there was no widespread panic. If we had been unable to identify this as a new virus and test for it, deaths would have been recorded as due to respiratory infection and the numbers would have been unlikely to have caused any alarm. Also it seems that if you test positive for covid 19 and die, the death will be recorded as covid 19 even if there were underlying conditions that may have been the cause of death. This will obviously inflate the statistics.
> 
> I am not saying I think this is like flu or that our health services are not overwhelmed, just that I think the hysteria surrounding this is blinding us to looking at it objectively, getting at the facts and making informed decisions. There are experts out there who disagree with a lot of what we are being told and we should not allow panic to stop us questioning what we are being told.


I've just been having the same conversation with someone on FB.

So what if it gets counted as a Covid 19 death? If you are positive for the virus, then you are positive for the virus.

We have absolutely no natural immunity to this virus. So much so, that our immune system goes into complete panic mode when it detects it.

This is why it's causing such a bad reaction in some people.

Because we have no immunity, every person coming into contact with it, could get it, and that makes it eye wateringly transmissible. And that is dangerous for overwhelming the healthcare system.

It's all about protecting the NHS whilst increasing it's capacity (and other healthcare systems elsewhere).


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> Regarding driving to local parks . My council replied on Twitter
> Hi, Our car parks remain open at this present time to our open spaces , but please always follow Government guidelines on social distancing. Thanks
> 
> Today was a nightmare waking on the pavements , it seems to get busier each day or maybe it was because we went a little later than usual .
> 
> A family of five blocking of the entrance talking to someone in a garden in the h ouse next to the entrance . A lady with two little dogs was waiting to get in so we had to wait behind her. They finally dawdled off ,
> 
> Then coming back on pavement , people walking in same direction all keeping the two metres apart , a jogger running up behind us on the pavement , his spaniel not even on a lead , over took all the people , he must have been within two foot. The spaniel stop to bother my dogs and then ran off, I was so cross I shouted out , put your ****ing dog on a lead and give us more ****ing space , you ****ing idiot , I dont think he heard me as my dogs were still barking at his dog .


I would think if the car parks are open, you can legally drive the short distance without getting stopped and fined. I have a feeling we'll see some pushback this weekend, with people back at the beach and parks.


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> I would think if the car parks are open, you can legally drive the short distance without getting stopped and fined. I have a feeling we'll see some pushback this weekend, with people back at the beach and parks.


I bet people will be out in droves if the weather is warm . OT but I find country lanes and roads, people drive so fast down them . Give me the M25 anyday


----------



## lullabydream

urbantigers said:


> I think the issue though is that facts are not at the centre of most of the public discussions. I think the description of covid 19 as a virus with PR is very accurate. It's very hard to get to the facts with the current tv and social media coverage. It was pointed out to me recently that in 2017,over500,000 people died from flu. But there was no widespread panic. If we had been unable to identify this as a new virus and test for it, deaths would have been recorded as due to respiratory infection and the numbers would have been unlikely to have caused any alarm. Also it seems that if you test positive for covid 19 and die, the death will be recorded as covid 19 even if there were underlying conditions that may have been the cause of death. This will obviously inflate the statistics.
> 
> I am not saying I think this is like flu or that our health services are not overwhelmed, just that I think the hysteria surrounding this is blinding us to looking at it objectively, getting at the facts and making informed decisions. There are experts out there who disagree with a lot of what we are being told and we should not allow panic to stop us questioning what we are being told.


One of the studies quoted is being discussed by that doctor on YouTube, who has been level headed throughout it..its weird what he discussed from the study today is not what the article discussed and he absolutely thinks lockdown and the measures we do are the things needed.

Am struggling if you are in the UK and can read that article and think it's no worse than flu. Yes flu and respiratory issues at this time cause death, there is a vaccine available free to vulnerable cheaply available to those who would like it, and many do.. Not 100% effective but may help. We don't have field hospitals set up for flu, and pull children out of schools, work closes for many, we get asked to self isolate, we get asked to use tissues, nothing about regular handwashing though common sense should prevail. It maybe a cousin of the flu, but if scientist want to be probably taken out of context by a journalist, or bury their heads in their sands on a new virus speaking the obvious that Darwin told us many years ago, the strongest will survive.

The scientist have already spoken.. There are probably more people with the virus that we know, there are probably more deaths of the virus than we are aware. 
With these lockdowns, and guidance we can flatten the curve. Nothing has been done in haste I am sure


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> With these lockdowns, and guidance we can flatten the curve. Nothing has been done in haste I am sure


Definitely not. The cost will be astronomical.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Definitely not. The cost will be astronomical.


Exactly.. Costs of this globally isn't worth thinking about.


----------



## catz4m8z

urbantigers said:


> Just leaving this here (apologies if it's been posted elsewhere and I've missed it).
> 
> I think some of these points need to be discussed more widely.
> 
> https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24...kQysqdKNv8zMZuxsD98Vb5cFn3zGvXWbkY0en4cx9QPOA


hmmm....interesting. Seems like a bunch of very clever people who think that its just a bad flu year and we are overreacting. Makes you wonder what they think is going on in all the hospitals, coz Im pretty sure even a bad flu year doesnt look like this!
Also so much emphasis on saving the economy first, I was waiting for them to suggest treating it like a cull of the less protective members of society.....really improve that economy!!:Nailbiting
Just goes to show I suppose that you can be clever and still lacking in other areas.

Also neighbour has just had a group of friends round....nice to see he wont be lonely in lockdown!:Banghead:Facepalm


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> hmmm....interesting. Seems like a bunch of very clever people who think that its just a bad flu year and we are overreacting. Makes you wonder what they think is going on in all the hospitals, coz Im pretty sure even a bad flu year doesnt look like this!
> Also so much emphasis on saving the economy first, I was waiting for them to suggest treating it like a cull of the less protective members of society.....really improve that economy!!:Nailbiting
> Just goes to show I suppose that you can be clever and still lacking in other areas.
> 
> Also neighbour has just had a group of friends round....nice to see he wont be lonely in lockdown!:Banghead:Facepalm


I can't thinking that it's April the 1st and a huge joke, ha bloody ha.


----------



## MollySmith

Contains adult language but this seems the best graphic representation of why flu is not Covid-19


----------



## Magyarmum

urbantigers said:


> Just leaving this here (apologies if it's been posted elsewhere and I've missed it).
> 
> I think some of these points need to be discussed more widely.
> 
> https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24...kQysqdKNv8zMZuxsD98Vb5cFn3zGvXWbkY0en4cx9QPOA


You've bin had!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/

*OffGuardian*

*







*
*














*
*CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE*


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> You've bin had!
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/
> 
> *OffGuardian*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE*


Told you it was April Fools day:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Contains adult language but this seems the best graphic representation of why flu is not Covid-19


That is well put. It's staggering how many people will be infected so quickly.

It's not a cold, it's not flu, it's not something that only kills off old people or those that are ill already, it doesn't care, it will kill anybody


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Told you it was April Fools day:Hilarious


Flipping dangerous though. People might believe this stuff....


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Flipping dangerous though. People might believe this stuff....


I know, that's the trouble and people won't check the validity of stuff like this. To me it was a lot of old nonsense, I could easily see the holes in their arguments, but then I've lived along time and have learned to take a lot of what I hear with a big pinch of salt


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> That is well put. It's staggering how many people will be infected so quickly.
> 
> It's not a cold, it's not flu, it's not something that only kills off old people or those that are ill already, it doesn't care, it will kill anybody


I think it's really good, it's great for people like me who have to take their socks off to add up. It's absolutely not the flu. I didn't stand to die from the flu. (Hugs) you're being remarkably patient, more than me.


----------



## Sacrechat

I’ve just had an argument with a Miss I have a PhD, who claims because the courts are still going ahead all this virus nonsense (according to her) is an over reaction. Supposedly it’s not as bad as they say on the news and they have that information first hand off the government. If they have it first hand off the government, why do members of the government come on the news around 5pm each day acknowledging just how bad it’s going to get. I wonder about people sometimes, I really do.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> hmmm....interesting. Seems like a bunch of very clever people who think that its just a bad flu year and we are overreacting. Makes you wonder what they think is going on in all the hospitals, coz Im pretty sure even a bad flu year doesnt look like this!
> Also so much emphasis on saving the economy first, I was waiting for them to suggest treating it like a cull of the less protective members of society.....really improve that economy!!:Nailbiting
> Just goes to show I suppose that you can be clever and still lacking in other areas.


If you look at some of the rest of the articles, they also subscribe to the belief that there were no planes involved in 9/11 and the World Trade Centre was demolished by a mix of high explosives and - I'm NOT kidding - mini-nuclear bombs...

Yeah, not rating them too highly as a source


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> That is well put. It's staggering how many people will be infected so quickly.
> 
> It's not a cold, it's not flu, it's not something that only kills off old people or those that are ill already, it doesn't care, it will kill anybody


It's exactly the same with the HIV virus and STD's.


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> I've just had an argument with a Miss I have a PhD, who claims because the courts are still going ahead all this virus nonsense (according to her) is an over reaction. Supposedly it's not as bad as they say on the news and they have that information first hand off the government. If they have it first hand off the government, why do members of the government come on the news around 5pm each day acknowledging just how bad it's going to get. I wonder about people sometimes, I really do.


Miss with a PHD, but no common sense by the sounds of it


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Told you it was April Fools day:Hilarious


Unless I'm certain an article is from a source I know well I always do a media check before I .post.


----------



## lorilu

Magyarmum said:


> It's exactly the same with the HIV virus and STD's.


Not really though. HIV and STDs are not spread by casual contact with respiratory droplets.


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> You've bin had!
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/
> 
> *OffGuardian*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE*


I love the way the Conspiracy Level goes up to Tin Foil Hat


----------



## lullabydream

People have referenced the flu somewhat, and made comparisons.. 
This video is quite interesting. Now I will be completely honest I think most the statistics are comparable with that Dr bloke on YouTube, hence why I am sharing it. Minds gone blank but I did think one might be a bit skewed, probably me and my ears not listening properly


----------



## DogLover1981

I'm in the states and the main road in town has almost zero traffic at the moment. It's eerie. O.O


----------



## mrs phas

This is certainly the most pointed way of getting the stay at home message across!

Don't listen if easily offended, it has sweary
bits
If not scroll to 6 min mark you won't regret it

https://mashable.com/video/coronavirus-samuel-l-jackson-stay-the-f-ck-at-home-jimmy-kimmel/


----------



## SusieRainbow

Did anyone see the new Nightingale Hospital on the news ?It looked like something straight out of a Robin Cook novel, made my blood run cold !
I'm feeling very anxious now in the knowledge that I'm way down the list for treatment, but on the plus side very relieved that I haven't smoked for nearly 10 years.


----------



## DogLover1981

I did read that people who smoke are at much greater risk of serious illness or death from the virus.


----------



## 1489253

I stopped a mere week ago today. The difficulties in actually buying the things atm has made it much easier than it would've been in normal times. I have known I needed to give up for a long time in order to try and prevent sight loss through macular degeneration, but had been quite unable to do it until this came along.


----------



## Magyarmum

lorilu said:


> Not really though. HIV and STDs are not spread by casual contact with respiratory droplets.


Sorry I didn't make it clear, I wasn't talking about the way it's spread, I actually meant the exponential growth which is the same.





.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We didn't expect this, yesterday OH got a letter from the hospital saying his vulnerable. He suffers from Psoriasis and recovered from cancer last year, they say his immune system is low, so he needs to stay in for 12 weeks:Jawdrop that's not what we expected at all, we thought if anyone was going to get a letter it would be me with my kidney, liver and lung problems but I've heard nothing. His not happy as he likes his weekly walk to the shops.


----------



## Gemmaa

Is it just my area, or are all local FB pages currently full of 5G conspiracy theories? 
There is no Coronavirus...it's radiation from the 5G masts.
Or, my other favourite, that China deliberately released the virus to kill the worlds economy, so they could buy everything cheap (not really sure what "everything" is).
:Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

I read just yesterday that Sweden is still ''open'' and that there is no compulsory ''lockdown'': they are advising no meetings of more than fifty (as opposed to two here).This seems rather strange.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I read just yesterday that Sweden is still ''open'' and that there is no compulsory ''lockdown'': they are advising no meetings of more than fifty (as opposed to two here).This seems rather strange.


That's correct!

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-sweden-still-skiing-despite-concerns/a-52908473

*Coronavirus: Sweden still skiing despite concerns*


----------



## SusieRainbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> We didn't expect this, yesterday OH got a letter from the hospital saying his vulnerable. He suffers from Psoriasis and recovered from cancer last year, they say his immune system is low, so he needs to stay in for 12 weeks:Jawdrop that's not what we expected at all, we thought if anyone was going to get a letter it would be me with my kidney, liver and lung problems but I've heard nothing. His not happy as he likes his weekly walk to the shops.


I've been expecting 3 months of restrictions from the start of the lock-down , that's what the Government were originally talking about for us oldies.


----------



## Magyarmum

With great trepidation, I ventured out this morning to join all the over 65's in Spar. Actually I needn't have worried about keeping a safe distance away from the next person because there were only about a dozen people shopping and most of them were wearing masks and gloves.. I was able to get everything I needed apart from cauliflower and broccoli which I think I might be able to live without. The floor in front of all the checkouts were marked out where everyone should wait in the queue. 

I also noticed in some of the smaller shops I passed there was a member of staff controlling who went in and out..All very organised I'm happy to say!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Sainsbury's elderly hour, they have let so many in and then stop and they only let three in when three come out and no couples unless one needs help doing the shopping, so they let OH in with me as I can't reach everything and I need help taking the shopping home. Not sure what we'll do now his had his letter.


----------



## Elles

Yes, the conspiracy theories are rife. Many people are saying even if there is a virus and they don’t think there is, the old and vulnerable should just stay indoors and let everyone else get back to normal. The roads are back to being as busy as ever today. I’d heard rumblings and guessed that people would be back out by the weekend, seems it didn’t even last that long. People are having cancer treatment delayed, because the hospitals are full of covid patients, but apparently it’s all a big capitalist con.


----------



## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> I've been expecting 3 months of restrictions from the start of the lock-down , that's what the Government were originally talking about for us oldies.


 I think that's where we are headed tbh: already they have cancelled Wimbledon which starts ?? end June? That's three months hence.


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> l. The roads are back to being as busy as ever today


 Not here . . . you can cross the main road without using any of the pedestrian crossings; fairly sure I could manage blindfolded. It's still much quieter than a normal Sunday.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The roads are quiet round here, even the main road which you can normally here the sound of traffic now almost silent.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> The roads are quiet round here, even the main road which you can normally here the sound of traffic now almost silent.


 It's like a ghost town here.


----------



## mrs phas

Gemmaa said:


> Is it just my area, or are all local FB pages currently full of 5G conspiracy theories?
> There is no Coronavirus...it's radiation from the 5G masts.
> Or, my other favourite, that China deliberately released the virus to kill the worlds economy, so they could buy everything cheap (not really sure what "everything" is).
> :Hilarious


Yep
My favourite so far is
China has so many old people, they came up with a virus that only attacks the old and weak
They were testing its efficacy in Wuhan
But then 
someone, who was a symptomless carrier "got out" 
and
now it's worldwide

For China's secrecy, I think that's a little far fetched


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> The roads are quiet round here, even the main road which you can normally here the sound of traffic now almost silent.


The only sound I can hear right now are birds
And I live in the middle of a council estate, 3 terraces down from a, normally, very busy by pass


----------



## 3dogs2cats

The street where I am now living is eerily quite, so much so I did start to wonder if everyone had left! Last week I could hear the sounds of DIY and gardening now nothing at all, maybe people have run out of things to do!


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> Sainsbury's elderly hour, they have let so many in and then stop and they only let three in when three come out and no couples unless one needs help doing the shopping, so they let OH in with me as I can't reach everything and I need help taking the shopping home. Not sure what we'll do now his had his letter.


Ask for a helper ( Sainsbury's) to be assigned to you?


----------



## Magyarmum

3dogs2cats said:


> The street where I am now living is eerily quite, so much so I did start to wonder if everyone had left! Last week I could hear the sounds of DIY and gardening now nothing at all, maybe people have run out of things to do!


Maybe they're all dead!


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Not here . . . you can cross the main road without using any of the pedestrian crossings; fairly sure I could manage blindfolded. It's still much quieter than a normal Sunday.





Happy Paws2 said:


> The roads are quiet round here, even the main road which you can normally here the sound of traffic now almost silent.





Calvine said:


> It's like a ghost town here.


When this started I walked a very busy B road and there were no more than 4-5 vehicles, a few days ago there were 20-30 but most were work vans. Today it was so busy with about 70-80 and they were virtually all cars 
It was so busy, I will not be walking that again. I may have to drive as the other way is through a fenced off path that is only 3 foot wide 



mrs phas said:


> The only sound I can hear right now are birds
> And I live in the middle of a council estate, 3 terraces down from a, normally, very busy by pass





3dogs2cats said:


> The street where I am now living is eerily quite, so much so I did start to wonder if everyone had left! Last week I could hear the sounds of DIY and gardening now nothing at all, maybe people have run out of things to do!


We have constant van deliveries, there's loads coming in, and I'm in a cul-d-sac, goodness knows what it's like on the main road into the estate


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> When this started I walked a very busy B road and there were no more than 4-5 vehicles, a few days ago there were 20-30 but most were work vans. Today it was so busy with about 70-80 and they were virtually all cars
> It was so busy, I will not be walking that again. I may have to drive as the other way is through a fenced off path that is only 3 foot wide
> 
> We have constant van deliveries, there's loads coming in, and I'm in a cul-d-sac, goodness knows what it's like on the main road into the estate


Am noticing more cars.. There never was not enough not to use the pedestrian crossings though.


----------



## Nonnie

Wonder if this is a regional thing. Massive reduction in traffic here.

Never known silence like it tbh.


----------



## Cully

Heather*** said:


> I stopped a mere week ago today. The difficulties in actually buying the things atm has made it much easier than it would've been in normal times. I have known I needed to give up for a long time in order to try and prevent sight loss through macular degeneration, but had been quite unable to do it until this came along.


Well done. I know how hard it is. I quit 4 years ago but still get cravings if I smell someone else smoking. Stick to it, you wont regret it.


----------



## lullabydream

Nonnie said:


> Wonder if this is a regional thing. Massive reduction in traffic here.
> 
> Never known silence like it tbh.


Most definitely.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Well done. I know how hard it is. I quit 4 years ago but still get cravings if I smell someone else smoking. Stick to it, you wont regret it.


I no longer get cravings but love the smell of someones fresh smoke  That's 10 years on!!
Been known to drop in behind someone smoking for a few paces :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> I no longer get cravings but love the smell of someones fresh smoke  That's 10 years on!!
> Been known to drop in behind someone smoking for a few paces :Shamefullyembarrased


It just reminds me of how I must have smelled like an old ashtray:Yuck


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> It just reminds me of how I must have smelled like an old ashtray:Yuck


Oh yes, it has to be fresh smoke, standing near someone who's been shut in a van etc smoking :Spitoutdummy

Never mind, they won't be doing that now.....................


----------



## Sacrechat

We had to take a key to my sisters today, so she can get into our house to feed my cats if hubby and I land in hospital. I couldn’t believe how much traffic was on the roads; it felt no different from not being in lockdown.

As for the conspiracy theories, they are doing my head in and I feel like strangling far more people than is healthy.


----------



## Cully

Sacremist said:


> We had to take a key to my sisters today, so she can get into our house to feed my cats if hubby and I land in hospital. I couldn't believe how much traffic was on the roads; it felt no different from not being in lockdown.
> 
> As for the conspiracy theories, they are doing my head in and I feel like strangling far more people than is healthy.


The theorists are scaremongers. Strangle 'em! No probs


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> We had to take a key to my sisters today, so she can get into our house to feed my cats if hubby and I land in hospital. I couldn't believe how much traffic was on the roads; it felt no different from not being in lockdown.
> 
> As for the conspiracy theories, they are doing my head in and I feel like strangling far more people than is healthy.


Oh its OK. The traffic is because now because people are just running out of food, and people are coming out of isolation (information from another thread)
They haven't seen how much food has actually gone to waste with panic buying, or how many people have had to be laid off in the past week, or heard that the government public are worried more are using cars.. Apparently its normal should be expected.


----------



## Cully

What was that all about on tv this morning about face masks being a good idea now. If everyone goes stripping shelves of already depleted stocks, the NHS will NEVER get the enough for their needs.
Just on BBC News website, breaking news says deaths are now 2921 in UK, up by 569 from yesterday.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> What was that all about on tv this morning about face masks being a good idea now. If everyone goes stripping shelves of already depleted stocks, the NHS will NEVER get the enough for their needs.
> Just on BBC News website, breaking news says deaths are now 2921 in UK, up by 569 from yesterday.


I missed that... 
Is that because China and Korea used them.. They do anyway its a cultural thing though. That's misconstrued that is used if they are carrying themselves of something. 
Problem with face masks is taking them off, and how long you have them on, and how you dispose of them.
They got hot very quickly, with own bacteria, any virus and are a nice breeding ground for bacteria. 
They do prevent those with the virus from spreading it, especially say if they cough. However it does need regularly changing as I have mentioned. If you are taking it off.. Flapping it around whilst doing so, well there isn't much point.

The reason why surgeons are gowned and have face mask are to protect the patient they are operating on.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/02/...oOvbsYFzEWDxfjKxKUi94obuusHJg9O0LP_ju0QH2GUqY

*Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing*


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> I missed that...
> Is that because China and Korea used them.. They do anyway its a cultural thing though. That's misconstrued that is used if they are carrying themselves of something.
> Problem with face masks is taking them off, and how long you have them on, and how you dispose of them.
> They got hot very quickly, with own bacteria, any virus and are a nice breeding ground for bacteria.
> They do prevent those with the virus from spreading it, especially say if they cough. However it does need regularly changing as I have mentioned. If you are taking it off.. Flapping it around whilst doing so, well there isn't much point.
> 
> The reason why surgeons are gowned and have face mask are to protect the patient they are operating on.


I can't remember which program I was watching, it was just after BBC Breakfast. Don't quote me but he (?) was saying that masks were a better precaution again the virus than previously thought. We know they are pretty feeble unless you know how to use them properly and maybe that's the reason we were advised not to use them in the first place. But now they seem to be reconsidering. I'll watch tonights' news and see if there's more mention of it.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> I can't remember which program I was watching, it was just after BBC Breakfast. Don't quote me but he (?) was saying that masks were a better precaution again the virus than previously thought. We know they are pretty feeble unless you know how to use them properly and maybe that's the reason we were advised not to use them in the first place. But now they seem to be reconsidering. I'll watch tonights' news and see if there's more mention of it.


The Dr I watch on YouTube he has been saying something similar.

There is a new report/studying thats come out, that although this Doctor has been saying the number aren't true numbers for ages.. As some won't have symptoms or notice, some will have mild symptoms might not consider its even a cold so currently the estimation in this report has stated how many people actually have the virus or had it is mind-blowing. I will link the Dr's video. At the end of my waffle.. So if many of us are carrying this with no symptoms, which we know anyway with the large incubation period. Plus those that might not exhibit any symptoms or as we are being told extremely mild. It may be helpful having a mask of any kind. Even when practicing social distancing as occasionally we can't always, think small shops.
Here's the info on the news report. Plus it's Dr John Campbell and he's very good


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I can't remember which program I was watching, it was just after BBC Breakfast. Don't quote me but he (?) was saying that masks were a better precaution again the virus than previously thought. We know they are pretty feeble unless you know how to use them properly and maybe that's the reason we were advised not to use them in the first place. But now they seem to be reconsidering. I'll watch tonights' news and see if there's more mention of it.


They were talking about it on the radio. It's apparently off the back of the WHO considering they change their advice following on from research in the states that said the droplets could travel up to 8m or something.

Very irresponsible, they even mentioned having to get the N95 masks. Idiots.

If people were staying bloody in, they wouldn't need masks.

Saw a shameful scene in Birmingham where the streets just looked like normal. I suspect there are certain sections of society that think they just know better...


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> droplets could travel up to 8m


Thats not new though.

Droplets from an uncovered cough can travel 6 metres, from a sneeze its 8.


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> I no longer get cravings but love the smell of someones fresh smoke  That's 10 years on!!
> Been known to drop in behind someone smoking for a few paces :Shamefullyembarrased


Me too ! My best friend still smokes, she apologises for lighting up but I like it ! even though I have no wish to smoke a ciggie myself.
I had another friend who gave up before I did, talk about the smoking police ! She never missed a chance for a negative comment , usually '_ filthy,dirty habit !' _Notice the past tense, our friendship ended over it.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Thats not new though.
> 
> Droplets from an uncovered cough can travel 6 metres, from a sneeze its 8.


The advice from the experts though was the virus was more likely to be held in the larger droplets that don't go farther than a metre and then fall to the floor.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I've been considering getting a visor rather than a mask, surely that would offer some protection against droplet infections ?


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> Me too ! My best friend still smokes, she apologises for lighting up but I like it ! even though I have no wish to smoke a ciggie myself.
> I had another friend who gave up before I did, talk about the smoking police ! She never missed a chance for a negative comment , usually '_ filthy,dirty habit !' _Notice the past tense, our friendship ended over it.


They do say that there's nothing worse than an ex smoker.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> They do say that there's nothing worse than an ex smoker.


I'm happy to let those that want to carry on. My still-smoking-friend is fully aware of the risks, same age as me,very fit and active but has a life-time of MH issues. She's just switched to rolling her own so I've ordered her a home-rolling kit.


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...l/index.html&usg=AOvVaw0YuFrXyPdtEdUR_0eSKeB3

Found it interesting.


----------



## Sacrechat

This afternoon I walked into the kitchen to find my hubby washing two dust masks that we’ve had sitting in the garage. I didn’t even know we had them. Not sure what use they will be.


----------



## kimthecat

Nonnie said:


> Thats not new though.
> 
> Droplets from an uncovered cough can travel 6 metres, from a sneeze its 8.


I was told imagine someone smoking and how the smokes wafts along and its like that so I can imagine it can easily travel 6 metres.

Went to the chemist today . Only two allowed in at a time but very quiet so no one q ing outside . Got all my prescription and my BILs . Got hand santatiser £5 for tiny bit in sachet but worth it . Till said card only and OH only had cash but they let him pay with it . Known the chemist for years , its nice to see familiar faces.


----------



## catz4m8z

Sacremist said:


> Not sure what use they will be.


Im sure I read somewhere that masks in public are good for 2 main reasons. 1-to stop you spreading the virus if you have it and 2- to stop you from touching your face! The kind of ones you can get hold of generally dont offer massive amounts of protection.

Nice to hear people are staying home in some areas...sadly not round here though. Road out front is just as busy, kids playing in the park oppisite and bunch of legless guys wandering down the street so its pretty much business as usual.:Facepalm


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> I was told imagine someone smoking and how the smokes wafts along and its like that so I can imagine it can easily travel 6 metres.
> 
> Went to the chemist today . Only two allowed in at a time but very quiet so no one q ing outside . Got all my prescription and my BILs . Got hand santatiser £5 for tiny bit in sachet but worth it . Till said card only and OH only had cash but they let him pay with it . Known the chemist for years , its nice to see familiar faces.


Our chemist will only allow one person at a time and they've put chairs in front of the counter creating a barrier between the customer and server. Although, after speaking with my doctor on Tuesday and getting a prescription, they actually delivered my meds this time.


----------



## Cully

@catz4m8z Selfish d*** heads!


----------



## Sacrechat

catz4m8z said:


> Im sure I read somewhere that masks in public are good for 2 main reasons. 1-to stop you spreading the virus if you have it and 2- to stop you from touching your face! The kind of ones you can get hold of generally dont offer massive amounts of protection.
> 
> Nice to hear people are staying home in some areas...sadly not round here though. Road out front is just as busy, kids playing in the park oppisite and bunch of legless guys wandering down the street so its pretty much business as usual.:Facepalm


At least these dust masks can be washed with disinfectant so it saves us from having to keep buying and throwing away if we are told to start wearing them. I must admit I'm going to feel slightly ridiculous wearing them.


----------



## Cully

Meant to say, I got hand gel in my Tesco order yesterday. Carex Aloe Vera hand gel and its 70% alcohol. £3.50 for 300ml if anyone's interested.


----------



## Magyarmum

I bought a pack of 10 surgical face masks online. Cost me £24 with the cost of delivery


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> I bought a pack of 10 surgical face masks online. Cost me £24 with the cost of delivery


How long would they last if you only used them for going outside shopping, or exercising. Can't believe how the prices have been hoiked up.


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> Our chemist will only allow one person at a time and they've put chairs in front of the counter creating a barrier between the customer and server. Although, after speaking with my doctor on Tuesday and getting a prescription, they actually delivered my meds this time.


Pleased to hear your prescription was delivered.


----------



## margy

I wore a mask for the first time today, provided by my work ,at one of my clients who is suspected of having the virus, we are still waiting hear what the result of his test is. I found it very hot and it made my face sweat, not ideal but hopefully it provided some protection.


----------



## purringcats

Magyarmum said:


> I bought a pack of 10 surgical face masks online. Cost me £24 with the cost of delivery


My friend is still in Thailand and has said everywhere is starting to open again eg pubs. My friend got 50 surgical masks for the equivalent of £22 in English money from a shop. In Thailand authorities are asking people to wear face masks including tourists. The Thai public health minister was not happy as tourists would not initially wear them to start off with.


----------



## MollySmith

I'm not much of a fan of the Royal Family but I thought this was moving

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52...478F&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=[post+type]


----------



## lullabydream

margy said:


> I wore a mask for the first time today, provided by my work ,at one of my clients who is suspected of having the virus, we are still waiting hear what the result of his test is. I found it very hot and it made my face sweat, not ideal but hopefully it provided some protection.


That's the problem with them. They are like little petri dishes, so you have to be careful when taking them off, as they gather bacteria, viruses and can become a breeding ground. If not removed gently and folded inwards.. Then you can be spreading what is ever in mask outwards.. Very much like clapping your hands with talc on if your not careful


----------



## Cully

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-enviro


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> That's the problem with them. They are like little petri dishes, so you have to be careful when taking them off, as they gather bacteria, viruses and can become a breeding ground. If not removed gently and folded inwards.. Then you can be spreading what is ever in mask outwards.. Very much like clapping your hands with talc on if your not careful


octor:Yuck


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-enviro


So pretty much what has been discussed here!


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Sainsbury's elderly hour, they have let so many in and then stop and they only let three in when three come out and no couples unless one needs help doing the shopping, so they let OH in with me as I can't reach everything and I need help taking the shopping home. Not sure what we'll do now his had his letter.


Have you got a sunflower lanyard?
if you have wear it and an empoyee should approach you to ask if you need help
saves you any embarrasment


----------



## Magyarmum

I live in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere and hardly ever see anyone when I take the dogs for a walk. Over a period of a week I might speak to the postman and to the GLS delivery man but only at the front gate. My drunken neighbour I see every day, and sometimes he'll work in my garden but never comes into the house. I'd only wear a mask for shopping which I plan to only do every three weeks, so at that rate, they should last for 6 months or so.


----------



## mrs phas

tried to sign up with our town hall for shopping delivery, as both matt and I are 2 of the " very vunerable", letters and texts recieved
unfortunately I was unable
the only supermarket in the area that has agreed to card payments over the phone is waitrose ( phone payments to protect both the volunteer and the payee) and then only for 20 items max ( again for all round protection, and i totally understand)
on ESA and PiPs as our only income,
there is no way I can afford shopping, for two of us,
from waitrose
and
, despite having signed up to the gov helpline, as soon as we got the letters,
Sainsbury keeps telling me that Im not recognised as a priority vunerable person on the gov helpline
but
at least i managed to sign up to get my meds delivered


that will mean, I, as the only driver in the family, will have to go out for shopping
like it or not


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> tried to sign up with our town hall for shopping delivery, as both matt and I are 2 of the " very vunerable", letters and texts recieved
> unfortunately I was unable
> the only supermarket in the area that has agreed to card payments over the phone is waitrose ( phone payments to protect both the volunteer and the payee) and then only for 20 items max ( again for all round protection, and i totally understand)
> on ESA and PiPs as our only income,
> there is no way I can afford shopping, for two of us,
> from waitrose
> and
> as, despite having signed up to the gov helpline, as soon as we got the letters,
> Sainsbury keeps telling me that Im not recognised as a priority vunerable person on the gove helpline
> but
> at least i managed to sign up to get my meds delivered
> 
> that will mean, I, as the only driver in the family, will have to go out for shopping
> like it or not


Haven't you got anyone to ask to help, friend, neighbour?


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Haven't you got anyone to ask to help, friend, neighbour?


nope, believe me, the town hall volunteer line *WAS *my last resort, trusting strangers is not my forte
i only speak to a couple of neighbours, i pretty much keep myself to myself
one neighbour
on the vunerable list, severe asthma and keeps having pleurisy ( heavy smoker) plus two cildren under 10 at home
other neighbour
7 month child, plus two other children under 6
is also in the middle of losing her private rented home, as landlord wants to sell up, wants her out by june 1st
and
her and OH are self employed and living on dust right now
so she has enough on her plate
next door is 85
so i feel like i should be shopping for him
best friend is going through breast cancer again, so is in middle of chemo
eldest and youngest sons are key workers,
as you know, eldest came home monday, and was back at work tuesday
son no2 has blatantly told me he has his own family to take care of, so wont be doing anything except for them, plus he and she are sulking as not only have they been furloughed, they have to have her son at home all the time too ( dont ask, their relationship is found under toxic in the dictionary)

i know i dont have to explain anything, but i wanted to show i really have tried, not just been half hearted about things


----------



## kimthecat

Makeshift morgues are being built in London. There is one bring built at our local crematorian.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Makeshift morgues are being built in London. There is one bring built at our local crematorian.


so sad
and, 
all not only died without family, 
they will be buried/cremated without family too
not that it worries the dead
its those left behind 
blaming themselves and grieving, with no closure, i feel for


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> Have you got a sunflower lanyard?
> if you have wear it and an empoyee should approach you to ask if you need help
> saves you any embarrasment


They have a similar thing in Tesco too, although I've never used it. A member of staff told me about it when I was climbing on my scooter to reach a top shelf


----------



## rona

OH's aunt with COPD has it, gone into hospital


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> OH's aunt with COPD has it, gone into hospital


Oh dear, prayers for her recovery.xx


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> OH's aunt with COPD has it, gone into hospital


Sorry to hear this, its the second person Aunt I have heard has been hospitalised with this bloody virus

Love to you @rona is OH OK?


----------



## ebonycat

rona said:


> OH's aunt with COPD has it, gone into hospital


Shes in my prayers.
Sending strength & love xx


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> Sorry to hear this, its the second person Aunt I have heard has been hospitalised with this bloody virus
> 
> Love to you @rona is OH OK?


He's a bit in shocked, but we are more worried about his mother, she hasn't long lost her husband and now her sister is in grave danger. They are very close sisters.
Thanks for asking


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> He's a bit in shocked, but we are more worried about his mother, she hasn't long lost her husband and now her sister is in grave danger. They are very close sisters.
> Thanks for asking


I think we can have this, it won't happen to us thinking anyway. 
The aunt I heard about today was my OHs work mate. He's in shock. I really don't know the ins and outs or details that she may or may not have underlying health issues but all I know is his work mate probably before lock down saw her, and heard from her and it was quite a rapid decline. Not 100% that is Covid-19 just taken to hospital and being tested.

Must be such a worry for your OHs mum.

I am no expert by a long shot for COPD patients but if its breathing difficulties anyway with COPD as standard oxygen and CPAP machines are used as standard. Sometimes there is a delay in the CPAP machine as its not very nice, as far as I know. It's more pressure than ones used for sleep apnea but I presume if they suspect it's the virus they maybe more proactive. Just going on what I have heard.. People's relations experiences of COPD who clearly aren't medical!


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> OH's aunt with COPD has it, gone into hospital


 prayers for her.


----------



## kimthecat

My sisters wants to know if she can let nexts door cat in her house. he is a frequent visitor and he's upset he cant come in. Im assuming its not ok ?


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> My sisters wants to know if she can let nexts door cat in her house. he is a frequent visitor and he's upset he cant come in. Im assuming its not ok ?


i think its been proven that cats and dogs cannot carry it on them, nor transmit it from one person to another
the reason to keep dogs on leads, or, stay away from other peoples dogs, is due to social distancing, not danger from cov-19


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> i think its been proven that cats and dogs cannot carry it on them, nor transmit it from one person to another
> the reason to keep dogs on leads, or, stay away from other peoples dogs, is due to social distancing, not danger from cov-19


Thank you . I didnt know what to say except dont stroke him if you do let him in. She feels so mean as he doesnt understand .


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Thank you . I didnt know what to say except dont stroke him if you do let him in. She feels so mean as he doesnt understand .


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...g-can-you-catch-it-transmission-a9376926.html

she shouldnt be kissing the cat
or allowig him to lick her face
and if she does give him a cuddle, make sure she washes her hands well afterwards ( as per everything)

but if hes just coming in for a nosey or because its his 'second home', personally, from reading numerous artcles ( one linked above) id say shes ok


----------



## kimthecat

She.ll be pleased to hear that. I think she was wondering whether if the owners stroked it and they had covid they could transmit it to the fur .
Its his second home ,  she doesnt feed him or anything , he just comes in and has a sleep sometimes, cats , what are they like !


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> I was sent this.
> 
> ****************************************
> 
> This may be of interest to people, it is apparently from Johns Hopkins University and is a summary to avoid contagion:
> 
> * The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipids (fats) which, if absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or mouth mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and converts them into multiplier and attacker cells.
> 
> * Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and the type of material in which it is found.
> 
> * The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That's why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam BREAKS THE GREASE (that's why you have to rub so much: for at least 20 seconds or more, and make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.
> 
> HEAT melts the fat; then use water above 25 degrees to wash your hands, clothes and everything else. In addition, hot water produces more foam which makes it even more useful.
> 
> * Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol greater than 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.
> 
> * Any mixture with 1 part of bleach and 5 parts of water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.
> 
> * Hydrogen peroxide helps a lot after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the proteins of the virus, but you have to use it pure and it hurts the skin.
> 
> NO BACTERICIDES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; one cannot kill with antibiotics what is not alive, but rapidly disintegrate its structure with all that has been said.
> 
> * NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or clothing. While it is glued on a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all moisture and does not let it detach and disintegrates), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours and can settle in your nose.
> 
> Viral molecules remain very stable in external or artificial cold like air conditioners in homes and cars. They also need moisture to remain stable and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it more quickly.
> 
> * UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is a protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.
> 
> * The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.
> 
> * Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break the protective layer of fat.
> 
> NO ALCOHOL or VODKA. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol and you need 65%.
> 
> * LISTERINA (it's an American mouthwash) IF YOU NEED IT! It's 65% alcohol.
> 
> * The more space is limited, the higher the concentration of the virus. More open or naturally ventilated, less.
> 
> * This is super said, but you have to wash your hands before and after touching the mucous membrane, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.
> 
> * You must HUMIDIFY DRY HANDS, for example wash them a lot, because molecules can hide in micro wrinkles or cuts. The denser the moisturizer, the better.
> 
> * Also keep your SHORT NAILS so that the virus doesn't hide there.


John Hopkins University state that they have not published this, it is fake information and should be considered inaccurate. As with many of these "as told by a friend who is a epidemiologist/doctor/researcher at such and such university" messages shared on social media these articles are a blend of fact and rubbish.

I find that putting the first half dozen words into google search generally brings up information showing the source is either fake or genuine.

One give away in this is that they are quoting a temperature as in heat melts the fat (implied lipid coating of virus) so wash hands etc at 25degrees or higher. If this was the case then the virus would die in the human body as we are much hotter than 25deg C.

I hope you and your family are doing OK @Siskin xx


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> Have you got a sunflower lanyard?
> if you have wear it and an empoyee should approach you to ask if you need help
> saves you any embarrasment


I've never heard of them.



SusieRainbow said:


> Oh dear, prayers for her recovery.xx


My thoughts are with you All and fingers crossed she's well and home very soon.


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> I think we can have this, it won't happen to us thinking anyway.
> The aunt I heard about today was my OHs work mate. He's in shock. I really don't know the ins and outs or details that she may or may not have underlying health issues but all I know is his work mate probably before lock down saw her, and heard from her and it was quite a rapid decline. Not 100% that is Covid-19 just taken to hospital and being tested.
> 
> Must be such a worry for your OHs mum.
> 
> I am no expert by a long shot for COPD patients but if its breathing difficulties anyway with COPD as standard oxygen and CPAP machines are used as standard. Sometimes there is a delay in the CPAP machine as its not very nice, as far as I know. It's more pressure than ones used for sleep apnea but I presume if they suspect it's the virus they maybe more proactive. Just going on what I have heard.. People's relations experiences of COPD who clearly aren't medical!


Tbh, it's not easy getting used to using a regular cpap machine: a lot of people struggle to sleep with them at first and can often only manage to keep them on for a few hours each night. Over time, it gets easier. It took me 6 months before I became comfortable using it. Now I feel more uncomfortable without it and can wear it all night with no issues. One of the benefits of wearing a cpap, apart from it keeping you breathing, obviously, lol, is you can sleep with the duvet over your head and still breathe, so your face doesn't get cold during the night. When I was in hospital last September, I snuggled down with the duvet over my head and was sleeping only to be woken up by a nurse panicking because my head was buried. She thought I might be suffocating, but I was just fine. It's how I sleep now.


----------



## Siskin

kittih said:


> John Hopkins University state that they have not published this, it is fake information and should be considered inaccurate. As with many of these "as told by a friend who is a epidemiologist/doctor/researcher at such and such university" messages shared on social media these articles are a blend of fact and rubbish.
> 
> I find that putting the first half dozen words into google search generally brings up information showing the source is either fake or genuine.
> 
> One give away in this is that they are quoting a temperature as in heat melts the fat (implied lipid coating of virus) so wash hands etc at 25degrees or higher. If this was the case then the virus would die in the human body as we are much hotter than 25deg C.
> 
> I hope you and your family are doing OK @Siskin xx


Oh dear, it seemed so plausible


----------



## kimthecat

Just watching the news, wondering why they dont do health checks on people entering the country. people coming from italy etc just told to self isolate for 14 days .


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> Oh dear, it seemed so plausible


A fair bit of it is fact. The problem with these sort of posts is the facts are bound up in a lot of pseudo science. If you know what is the fake science stuff and what is not then there isnt really an issue. In the case of this article the fake science probably isnt detrimental to the underlying message but some articles going round spouting so called scientific facts could have serious consequences or make people think simple remedies make them immune.

The take home message really is wash hands thoroughly. Avoid touching your face, keep at least 2 meters away from other people and regularly decontaminate often touched surfaces in your home. Decontamination works fine with normal household cleaners.

The research on the length of time C19 lasts on surfaces is a very small and as yet non peer reviewed study. However the times quoted are not too much different from other viruses, especially that smooth surfaces like plastic or steel retain viable virus particles for longer than porous surfaces.

The underlying point behind all the precautions is to reduce the number of viral particles you are exposed to. Hand washing thoroughly, keeping a distance, staying away from people.and staying at home all reduce exposure.


----------



## kittih

kimthecat said:


> Just watching the news, wondering why they dont do health checks on people entering the country. people coming from italy etc just told to self isolate for 14 days .


I think the issue is that firstly people could have the virus but show no symptoms so if they had a health check it wouldnt help.

Secondly the virus is so wide spread in the population it doesn't really matter whether or not they have the virus as It is safer to assume that they have and get them to self isolate gor 14 days then social isolate like the rest of us.

Thirdly any health checks or medical intervention requires interaction between people. Every interaction increase the risk to medical personnel.

Lastly the time taken to undertake these checks far outweighs any potential benefit from doing any sorts of checks.
Our medical personnel are better placed caring for people who need assistance.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> Just watching the news, wondering why they dont do health checks on people entering the country. people coming from italy etc just told to self isolate for 14 days .


I suppose thats all you really need to do though. Even if you tested them and they had the virus thats all they'd be told to do anyways.

Finally braved the High St for the first time in over 2 weeks! Was fairly busy, only difference was the people were all standing in massive long queues outside banks and supermarkets instead of walking!:Hilarious (felt sorry for the TSB queue....they had a crazy homeless guy sat in front of them shouting at them!).
Frankly I CBA with all that queueing so I just popped into Holland and Barrett and the romanian grocers on the corner (they always have the best fresh produce anyways and now Ive ventured further into the shop Ive discovered they also have a pretty awesome bakery and natural snack selection!:Smug).


----------



## lullabydream

I braved Tescos again. Preferred queuing to be honest. Now we social distance, go around the whole shop but no one is social distancing because no one quite knows how it works.. So we either all go a snails pace when you only want a small selection of things, or do we walk past people. One person was telling people go down an aisle and wait, other person just walk past as far if you don't want the aisle. Surely the rules should be uniform. 

Only one member from a household in, but I heard someone discussing while queuing at least we both got in with a trolley each! Could possibly work somewhere, but surely that would be allowed.

Then the queue for the checkouts. After the third person pushed in, as it goes all around the side and the back of the shop. I spoke to the woman supervising the queue. Her response was, yes I thought they had. Did nothing. Could have politely asked if he realised this was a queue. To be honest the gentleman must have heard me because he turned round and asked where the end of the queue was and apologised. Am hoping Lidls are being as calm as before. 

It just looked like utter madness to be honest.


----------



## Sairy

I am still staggered at the people who are not taking this seriously. A close friend of mine told me that there is a couple in the flat above her that have a 3 month old baby. Neither of them work and they are at home all the time. 3 times this week she has seen the baby being brought back home by different family members who have been looking after her. I don't understand why anyone would put their baby's safety in jeapody like that


----------



## lullabydream

Sairy said:


> I am still staggered at the people who are not taking this seriously. A close friend of mine told me that there is a couple in the flat above her that have a 3 month old baby. Neither of them work and they are at home all the time. 3 times this week she has seen the baby being brought back home by different family members who have been looking after her. I don't understand why anyone would put their baby's safety in jeapody like that


My neighbour had their month old grandson visiting a couple of days ago.. They don't get it either. 
I couldn't believe it!

I know there are other children too in the family and if there had been an emergency say with one of the other children and nanny or grandad had to go round; surely one could. But it didn't seem any sort of an emergency to me, neighbours with daughter and baby grandson in the garden, plus grand children playing! My neighbours has custody of 2 grandchildren from their son.

I know it's hard. My sister misses her grandson loads. She is also missing her other sons girlfriend whose pregnant and seeing her bump grow.


----------



## lorilu

Sairy said:


> I am still staggered at the people who are not taking this seriously. A close friend of mine told me that there is a couple in the flat above her that have a 3 month old baby. Neither of them work and they are at home all the time. 3 times this week she has seen the baby being brought back home by different family members who have been looking after her. I don't understand why anyone would put their baby's safety in jeapody like that


Or themselves. When they get sick, who takes care of the baby?


----------



## lorilu

Grandfather and granddaughter live across the street from each other and are used to being together. The little girl has found a new way to interact with grandpa. There's a story with it somewhere but I couldn't find it this morning, just the video.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/social-distance-dance-off-between-105417348.html


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> Grandfather and granddaughter live across the street from each other and are sued to being together. The little girl has found a new way to interact with grandpa. There's a story with it somewhere but I coudln't find it this morning, just the video.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/gma/social-distance-dance-off-between-105417348.html


That's brilliant.. 
My friend across the road, her children send me letters as part of the school work and I reply.

We also must keep our neighbours amused by waving to each other and pulling faces at each other.. At specific days and times. We use our houses a bit like each others. So the kids have enjoyed interacting this way.


----------



## Siskin

My friends have joined Zoom and will be having a conference type call with her three children and their families tomorrow morning. Two live in London and one lives in Australia. I’m sure it’s going to be great fun for them and a great and safe way to ‘see’ each other


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> That's brilliant..
> My friend across the road, her children send me letters as part of the school work and I reply.
> 
> We also must keep our neighbours amused by waving to each other and pulling faces at each other.. At specific days and times. We use our houses a bit like each others. So the kids have enjoyed interacting this way.


Yesterday when watching the mayor's weekly address he told about a local neighborhood where all the people on the street have a set time to stand at their windows, or on their porches, or just in front of their houses and wave and call to one another each day. It made me cry reading that, because my neighbors don't even wave at each other. They turn their backs if someone else comes out, so they don't have to. Not just now, it's always been like that here. I'm in the process of buying a little house across town and I hope it's more friendly there. Not that I want people always talking at me, I am a private solitary person. But ...there's comfort in knowing your neighbors, I think. I hope.


----------



## catz4m8z

lorilu said:


> there's comfort in knowing your neighbors, I think. I hope.


Depends on the neighbours!:Nailbiting
My family have tried to get me interested in Skype....I pointed out I like to wander around the house and out into the garden when Im on the phone so maybe not (also nobody should have to look at my 'at home' hair styles and PJ combos!!LOL).


----------



## Siskin

Crumbs, 684 died today. So scary


----------



## lorilu

catz4m8z said:


> Depends on the neighbours!:Nailbiting
> My family have tried to get me interested in Skype....I pointed out I like to wander around the house and out into the garden when Im on the phone so maybe not (also nobody should have to look at my 'at home' hair styles and PJ combos!!LOL).


I mean just knowing someone across the way is keeping an eye on things you know? For instance, my snooty neighbors who moved in across the street about 8 years ago...I once saw they had left their car door open and the lights on, and it started to rain. I waited to see if they were just bringing in groceries or something but there was no movement. So I went over and knocked on the door and said I don't know if you realize this but your car is all open and it's pouring out here. And your lights are on.

I know they wouldn't do that for me, because I once had a plumber here late at night when my well pump failed. Everything all lit up, coming and going, they never said a word or asked me if everything was all right.

Stuff like that. Watching out for one another. When I was looking at the house I am (hoping, haven't had the closing yet) to buy the house on the left had a man and young girl outside both times I've been there. They waved at me and I smiled and waved back. The house on the other side, the second time I was there, I saw someone looking at me out the back window as I walked around the house with the Inspector. I smiled and waved, and they waved back.

I am a quiet solitary private peace loving older person, and the neighbors ignoring each other around here has always suited me, but I feel differently now, especially with all this going on. The mayor keeps talking about our community spirit and how wonderful everyone is being, looking out for one another and all, but I am not seeing that here. It makes me feel very lonely.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Crumbs, 684 died today. So scary


So sad to have read that.
If that's the count, in 24 hrs, WITH social distancing and staying isolated
What the heck would be the count, if we all went about our business as usual

Condolences to all those families


----------



## Magyarmum

I don't have any neighbours. The two house on my left are empty as are the three on the right, as well as the four facing my house but on the other side of the village green. And nothing but fields at the back of my house

Suits me fine


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> I mean just knowing someone across the way is keeping an eye on things you know? For instance, my snooty neighbors who moved in across the street about 8 years ago...I once saw they had left their car door open and the lights on, and it started to rain. I waited to see if they were just bringing in groceries or something but there was no movement. So I went over and knocked on the door and said I don't know if you realize this but your car is all open and it's pouring out here. And your lights are on.
> 
> I know they wouldn't do that for me, because I once had a plumber here late at night when my well pump failed. Everything all lit up, coming and going, they never said a word or asked me if everything was all right.
> 
> Stuff like that. Watching out for one another. When I was looking at the house I am (hoping, haven't had the closing yet) to buy the house on the left had a man and young girl outside both times I've been there. They waved at me and I smiled and waved back. The house on the other side, the second time I was there, I saw someone looking at me out the back window as I walked around the house with the Inspector. I smiled and waved, and they waved back.
> 
> I am a quiet solitary private peace loving older person, and the neighbors ignoring each other around here has always suited me, but I feel differently now, especially with all this going on. The mayor keeps talking about our community spirit and how wonderful everyone is being, looking out for one another and all, but I am not seeing that here. It makes me feel very lonely.


I don't know all the people round here. Some are rentals that come and go. One of my next door neighbours, he's a bit odd but his wife we always talk and natter. Am always polite. 
Across the road are my true friends and we talk to a few on the street. 
There has been times when car lights have been left on, and someone's knocked on the door to ask if it's our car, or do we know who it is. 
My groomer stopped grooming and went on maternity leave. She recommended a groomer and I was so relived to find out Stans new groomer is a neighbours daughter. A very good groomer too, which of course I let her parents know when passing. Her mum was really helpful with details about the dog who had attacked Stan too.

It's nice to say hello and occasionally have a quick chat about random things.


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> I don't know all the people round here. Some are rentals that come and go. One of my next door neighbours, he's a bit odd but his wife we always talk and natter. Am always polite.
> Across the road are my true friends and we talk to a few on the street.
> There has been times when car lights have been left on, and someone's knocked on the door to ask if it's our car, or do we know who it is.
> My groomer stopped grooming and went on maternity leave. She recommended a groomer and I was so relived to find out Stans new groomer is a neighbours daughter. A very good groomer too, which of course I let her parents know when passing. Her mum was really helpful with details about the dog who had attacked Stan too.
> 
> It's nice to say hello and occasionally have a quick chat about random things.


That's it.  I don't want to "know" my neighbors. I just want to feel some connection, a sense of community, that has always been lacking here. Some of the houses around here are rentals too, but lately everyone has stayed put, there hasn't been anyone new in quite a few years. It's lovely and quiet most of the time. But I get tired of the way these younger people with small children turn their backs. Even the kids from the various houses don't play with each other (in normal times).


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> That's it.  I don't want to "know" my neighbors. I just want to feel some connection, a sense of community, that has always been lacking here. Some of the houses around here are rentals too, but lately everyone has stayed put, there hasn't been anyone new in quite a few years. It's lovely and quiet most of the time. But I get tired of the way these younger people with small children turn their backs. Even the kids from the various houses don't play with each other (in normal times).


Yes exactly you don't have to know your neighbours but just a hello in passing, and a little bit of something said then on your way.


----------



## Cully

I like to be friendly with my neighbours, but I don't want them thinking they can just walk in my flat when they feel like it. Very special friends ok, but not everyone I pass the time of day with.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> I like to be friendly with my neighbours, but I don't want them thinking they can just walk in my flat when they feel like it. Very special friends ok, but not everyone I pass the time of day with.


Even my friends or family wouldn't dream of coming to my home un-announced. I would think that's the height of rudeness, just "dropping by". Though I know other people who live that way, have constant drop in visitors (in normal times). I would find that intolerable. But I would like to know that if my neighbor saw my car lights left on they would come over and alert me, even if just calling through the door or window.


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> So sad to have read that.
> If that's the count, in 24 hrs, WITH social distancing and staying isolated
> What the heck would be the count, if we all went about our business as usual
> 
> Condolences to all those families


Would those people have been infected before the lock down?

If so, we should see a levelling off soon..... hopefully.

It is so tragic and scary - seems like it's a bad disaster movie - it can't be happening


----------



## O2.0

I just went back and read the first few pages of this thread. Eerie how quickly perceptions and realities have changed! 

As for neighbors, we're pretty isolated here. There are 5 houses on this 'road' but they're on large plots of land. Our neighbor on one side has 60 acres, the one on the other side has 40 acres, and we're on 20 acres with the remaining border belonging to timber company with no road access and they just leave it to grow wild. 

We all keep to ourselves, but we're also very friendly. We maintain our little dirt road together, buying gravel when it needs it, taking turns to smooth it out when it gets rutted. We all have each others phone numbers and it's not unusual to get a text like "I saw a car I didn't recognize go down towards your house" or "Hey A, your ass got out again, I put him in the front pasture"  Neighbor at the top has a mini donk who's an escape artist  

I think the isolation breeds a sort of togetherness because we know it's each other we depend on. But we also share a sense of privacy given our choice of where we live.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> Even my friends or family wouldn't dream of coming to my home un-announced. I would think that's the height of rudeness, just "dropping by". Though I know other people who live that way, have constant drop in visitors (in normal times). I would find that intolerable. But I would like to know that if my neighbor saw my car lights left on they would come over and alert me, even if just calling through the door or window.


By the way, regarding this: one more off topic thing to say about it. those people I mentioned (two families) who think nothing of drop in visitors, as that's the way they've always lived. They used to try to do that to me, it took me several years to train them that I did not want, nor did I appreciate, drop in visitors. Even saying it straight out fell on deaf ears at first. They did finally stop.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> We all keep to ourselves, but we're also very friendly. We maintain our little dirt road together, buying gravel when it needs it, taking turns to smooth it out when it gets rutted. We all have each others phone numbers and it's not unusual to get a text like "I saw a car I didn't recognize go down towards your house" or "Hey A, your ass got out again, I put him in the front pasture"  Neighbor at the top has a mini donk who's an escape artist


This is what I hope for, when I move. It's a good balance of privacy and community.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> If so, we should see a levelling off soon..... hopefully.


From about next Wednesday I would think, as many ignored lockdown for the first couple of days


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> Would those people have been infected before the lock down?
> 
> It is so tragic and scary - seems like it's a bad disaster movie - it can't be happening


Possibly.. The incubation upto 14 days.. Obviously that depends on the person. People can be treated for quite a while in hospital before real progress is made, or they get worse.

There seems to be a fluctuating signs and symptoms from what I read so as most cold and flu, niggly symptoms start. Then nothing then bam. Of course everyone is different there too.

After my supermarket hell this morning. I don't know what Tescos was trying to do, yes more people in the shop, no queueing per se but honestly that was a complete social distancing nightmare. Lot more staff too. Far better queuing outside, have the social distancing inside too, all follow the same path but everyone needs to be on the same page how to work it. From. That this morning, I felt we were like Guinea pigs a bit should stick to their guns with the lock down measurements and see if it was working not chopping and changing guidelines. No one will know what's working because many will have to shop!


----------



## Cully

Just hoping that the weekend revellers have got the message by now or that could knock our progress off course.


----------



## ForestWomble

lorilu said:


> I mean just knowing someone across the way is keeping an eye on things you know? For instance, my snooty neighbors who moved in across the street about 8 years ago...I once saw they had left their car door open and the lights on, and it started to rain. I waited to see if they were just bringing in groceries or something but there was no movement. So I went over and knocked on the door and said I don't know if you realize this but your car is all open and it's pouring out here. And your lights are on.
> 
> I know they wouldn't do that for me, because I once had a plumber here late at night when my well pump failed. Everything all lit up, coming and going, they never said a word or asked me if everything was all right.
> 
> Stuff like that. Watching out for one another. When I was looking at the house I am (hoping, haven't had the closing yet) to buy the house on the left had a man and young girl outside both times I've been there. They waved at me and I smiled and waved back. The house on the other side, the second time I was there, I saw someone looking at me out the back window as I walked around the house with the Inspector. I smiled and waved, and they waved back.
> 
> I am a quiet solitary private peace loving older person, and the neighbors ignoring each other around here has always suited me, but I feel differently now, especially with all this going on. The mayor keeps talking about our community spirit and how wonderful everyone is being, looking out for one another and all, but I am not seeing that here. It makes me feel very lonely.


*Liked* because I understand. It's the same for me, I feel so lonely where I live, neighbours ignore me etc and this current situation has highlighted it to me in a large Neon sign kinda way, I'm also a quiet, solitary private person and don't want neighbours sticking their noses into my business all the time, but it would be lovely if we could wave at each other, watch out for each other etc.

Anyway, I hope you get the nice neighbours that you are hoping for and your new home is everything you dream of.


----------



## Siskin

Not sure this is exactly correct on all counts but it does put a message across


----------



## mrs phas

first bank holiday weekend coming up
I know its a bit different this year
what with working from home etc
but
Im hoping for rain
otherwise
if sunny and warm, 
can see 100s heading for the coast
or 
BBQs happening
despite the isolation restrictions


----------



## EGUSVet

I get so peeved off when I see people clearly not socially isolating!


----------



## oliviarussian

I drove past a group of about 10 Deliveroo riders all hanging around chatting in a big group, no distance between them  and then they will be riding around delivering to countless people!!!


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> If that's the count, in 24 hrs, WITH social distancing and staying isolated
> What the heck would be the count, if we all went about our business as usual


About the same at the moment. Remember, these are the people who would have contracted the virus before lockdown, so even with the percentage of the population that did social distancing seriously before that there wouldn't be too much of a difference.

It will be several more days yet, probably a week or so, before the effects of lockdown start to really be seen in a significant manner.


----------



## Psygon

oliviarussian said:


> I drove past a group of about 10 Deliveroo riders all hanging around chatting in a big group, no distance between them  and then they will be riding around delivering to countless people!!!


This is why as much as I'd love a take away I'm resisting the urge.


----------



## mrs phas

managed to get an iceland delivery slot  (insert dancing emoji)
has cost me around £20 extra to do my shopping there
and
still have to get pasta and rice and some sort of flour
as none of that is availalble
£20 is a lot to find, on our budget
but
the cost to our lives coud well be more

thankfully PiPs is due monday,
so ive managed to rob peter to pay paul
and can add the money back into the bill account then


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> /www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-51967889
> 
> A good article on how to stop bad information doing the rounds. Please read.


So,the spreader of fake news is telling everyone else how to avoid it. Classic


----------



## margy

My daughters adopting a baby girl and all is going ahead her matching panel was done via video phone. Her husband and her have had to go into isolation for 7 days this week then baby is being brought by the social worker to her house for introductions for 5 days. When she goes back to foster carers they have to bath and wash her clothes. Hopefully after 5days next week she can come to my daughter for good. Keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## JoanneF

@margy, it would be so nice to hear a good news update next week when it all goes through.


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> So,the spreader of fake news is telling everyone else how to avoid it. Classic


Could be worse. Could be Sky News, or Fox News, or CNN, or the Daily Fail, or the Sun, or the Mirror, or... (you get the idea  )


----------



## margy

JoanneF said:


> @margy, it would be so nice to hear a good news update next week when it all goes through.


These are strange days and normally introductions would take place in the foster carers house but they are older and at risk so social workers have pulled out all the stops to make sure this adoption takes place by adapting to circumstances.We can't thank them enough.


----------



## SbanR

lorilu said:


> I mean just knowing someone across the way is keeping an eye on things you know? For instance, my snooty neighbors who moved in across the street about 8 years ago...I once saw they had left their car door open and the lights on, and it started to rain. I waited to see if they were just bringing in groceries or something but there was no movement. So I went over and knocked on the door and said I don't know if you realize this but your car is all open and it's pouring out here. And your lights are on.
> 
> I know they wouldn't do that for me, because I once had a plumber here late at night when my well pump failed. Everything all lit up, coming and going, they never said a word or asked me if everything was all right.
> 
> Stuff like that. Watching out for one another. When I was looking at the house I am (hoping, haven't had the closing yet) to buy the house on the left had a man and young girl outside both times I've been there. They waved at me and I smiled and waved back. The house on the other side, the second time I was there, I saw someone looking at me out the back window as I walked around the house with the Inspector. I smiled and waved, and they waved back.
> 
> I am a quiet solitary private peace loving older person, and the neighbors ignoring each other around here has always suited me, but I feel differently now, especially with all this going on. The mayor keeps talking about our community spirit and how wonderful everyone is being, looking out for one another and all, but I am not seeing that here. It makes me feel very lonely.


Your new neighbourhood (hopefully) sounds a friendly place.
I miss my previous neighbour who died a few years back. We would smile n wave to each other, chatting when we met. My new neighbours, a young couple, don't even acknowledge me (he started off very friendly when he needed access through my property for building work on his house)


----------



## DogLover1981

This pandemic is starting to impact dog owners here. Some states are considering waiving the spay/neuter requirement for animal shelters and rescues to save resources for the pandemic. Basically, adopters will not need to spay/neuter their new pets. I do hope they tell people to be careful with their intact dogs as not everyone here has experience with it. O.O


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## DogLover1981

My state shut down everything over a week ago even though there still weren't many cases of the virus, preparations are being made for a surge in cases and one of the medical centers/hospitals here is participating in the research for drugs to treat the virus. I find that cool.


----------



## Sacrechat

catz4m8z said:


> Depends on the neighbours!:Nailbiting
> My family have tried to get me interested in Skype....I pointed out I like to wander around the house and out into the garden when Im on the phone so maybe not (also nobody should have to look at my 'at home' hair styles and PJ combos!!LOL).


You can get Skype for your phone.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Someone up our road I think aren't obeying the rules....

We know a couple up the road who are in their late 70's and live on their own with no other family members, he has just walked past with two of his grandchildren, wasn't we told not to visit older family members.


----------



## lullabydream

DogLover1981 said:


> My state shut down everything over a week ago even though there still weren't many cases of the virus,


That's a good thing. Ideally lockdown should be done in very early stages or it's too late. 
People will still argue no doubt when death figures arise it probably was too late for most lockdown.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> That's a good thing. Ideally lockdown should be done in very early stages or it's too late.
> People will still argue no doubt when death figures arise it probably was too late for most lockdown.


Hungary went on lock down pretty quickly.

The first case was on March 3rd and on the 11th we went into a partial lock down followed by a virtually total lock down on the 16th March.

The government however had started to prepare for the pandemic as far back as the end of January.

To date in the county I live in we've only had 6 reported cases. Happily people seem to be acting very responsibly!


----------



## lorilu

News in political cartoon form...mostly US based perspective of course but it'll pass a few minutes....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...updated-april-3/ss-AAJ7oYd?li=BBnb7Kz#image=1


----------



## rona

NHS asking for information 
https://www.nhs.uk/coronavirus-status-checker

*"Tell the NHS about your experience of coronavirus*
This survey will help the NHS understand more about how and where coronavirus (COVID-19) is affecting people.

By answering some quick questions, you can help the NHS plan its response to coronavirus"


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> NHS asking for information
> https://www.nhs.uk/coronavirus-status-checker
> 
> *"Tell the NHS about your experience of coronavirus*
> This survey will help the NHS understand more about how and where coronavirus (COVID-19) is affecting people.
> 
> By answering some quick questions, you can help the NHS plan its response to coronavirus"


It was on Facebook last week. I didn't answer because living in Hungary my input is totally irrelevant


----------



## MollySmith

Despite the daughter of my neighbour saying last week she just popped in to see her dad for a chat, and me giving her some local support info which she said they’d use... she’s back visiting today with her dog. I despair! Another neighbour got his shopping and meds this week. It’s sad to be lonely, but... I just don’t think some people understand that families are infectious.


----------



## mrs phas

i think the best thing now,
is 
to not worry about what other people are doing
just worry about ourselves
if other people choose to break the self isolation/distance rules
thats upto them
*we *can only do what we can to keep *ourselves* safe
if we, ourselves, stick to the social isolation and distancing rules
thats what counts
I could care less what x y or z next door or over the road want to do
they only affect themselves, not me
because I *am* *not *socialising and I *am* keeping to the distance rules ( in fact im keeping to the extra 12 week rules)
theres enough to scare us all to bedlam in the news as it is
without worrying about whos doing what in the neighbours house


----------



## Siskin

I phoned a friend today to check they are ok, haven’t spoken for a while so it was good to catch up.
What I did discover though was that a mutual friends who used to live in the village and have now moved to town, are still inviting round various family members including great grand children who are in their teens. This couple are in their early 90’s, both have health issues and it wouldn’t take much to finish them off to be blunt. My friend tried to explain that having people round was a huge risk for them, but the lady in particular brushed off what was said saying it would be alright and she just wanted to see her family. So my friend who uses the same doctors surgery as the elderly couple spoke to the the doctor that the elderly lady likes and would listen to and explained what was happening. Hopefully the doctor will find time to phone the elderly lady and tell her more firmly to not keep having family round and risk their health. Whether she will be listened to is another matter


----------



## shadowmare

On Twitter Pierce Morgan tried to tell people to stay at home even if we’re to get this promised heat wave... only to get a massive backlash from the same followers who usually cheer for him for “telling as it is”. They all continuously said how they’re not blessed with a garden therefore would be going out to the parks with their kids and grandkids to get some vitamin D because it’s unhealthy to sit at home. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> i think the best thing now,
> is
> to not worry about what other people are doing
> just worry about ourselves
> if other people choose to break the self isolation/distance rules
> thats upto them
> *we *can only do what we can to keep *ourselves* safe
> if we, ourselves, stick to the social isolation and distancing rules
> thats what counts
> I could care less what x y or z next door or over the road want to do
> they only affect themselves, not me
> because I *am* *not *socialising and I *am* keeping to the distance rules ( in fact im keeping to the extra 12 week rules)
> theres enough to scare us all to bedlam in the news as it is
> without worrying about whos doing what in the neighbours house


yes good point. Thank you.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> i think the best thing now,
> is
> to not worry about what other people are doing
> just worry about ourselves
> if other people choose to break the self isolation/distance rules
> thats upto them
> *we *can only do what we can to keep *ourselves* safe
> if we, ourselves, stick to the social isolation and distancing rules
> thats what counts
> I could care less what x y or z next door or over the road want to do
> they only affect themselves, not me
> because I *am* *not *socialising and I *am* keeping to the distance rules ( in fact im keeping to the extra 12 week rules)
> theres enough to scare us all to bedlam in the news as it is
> without worrying about whos doing what in the neighbours house


The problem is, people are worried. We can all follows the rules and social distance, keep up hand washing till our hands are red raw. It is a worry to those seeing people totally blatantly flaunt the rules. People who have live with others, those who have to work, who have to shop. We can only limit so much and do our best and we are putting our trust in others such as shop workers, people we work with are doing the same. They simply are not following guidelines. It's not just affecting themselves..

Covid-19 is so easily transmitted hence how it's a world wide pandemic.

People aren't getting the meme.

They may just presume older people are dying, or those with underlying health conditions but those in hospital thar need treatment and walk out will no doubt be of all ages, from all walks of life.

As people say, we are all in this together. Yes we need to do certain things as individuals and our own family groups, and but we can't get complacent and think it doesn't matter what others are doing. It really does.

No one whose in hospital now, or is at home isolating with the virus I hope don't think this wasn't their own fault. It's a successful virus to survive has it has in this day and age.


----------



## MollySmith

shadowmare said:


> On Twitter Pierce Morgan tried to tell people to stay at home even if we're to get this promised heat wave... only to get a massive backlash from the same followers who usually cheer for him for "telling as it is". They all continuously said how they're not blessed with a garden therefore would be going out to the parks with their kids and grandkids to get some vitamin D because it's unhealthy to sit at home. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


I'm absolutely bricking it when I have to go food shopping!


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> The problem is, people are worried. We can all follows the rules and social distance, keep up hand washing till our hands are red raw. It is a worry to those seeing people totally blatantly flaunt the rules. People who have live with others, those who have to work, who have to shop. We can only limit so much and do our best and we are putting our trust in others such as shop workers, people we work with are doing the same. They simply are not following guidelines. It's not just affecting themselves..
> 
> Covid-19 is so easily transmitted hence how it's a world wide pandemic.
> 
> People aren't getting the meme.
> 
> They may just presume older people are dying, or those with underlying health conditions but those in hospital thar need treatment and walk out will no doubt be of all ages, from all walks of life.
> 
> As people say, we are all in this together. Yes we need to do certain things as individuals and our own family groups, and but we can't get complacent and think it doesn't matter what others are doing. It really does.
> 
> No one whose in hospital now, or is at home isolating with the virus I hope don't think this wasn't their own fault. It's a successful virus to survive has it has in this day and age.


I see your point and @mrs phas too. I feel that there's only so much we can do though. I've checked in with my neighbour, now they would have a letter from Boris (it arrived today whilst she was visiting her dad and I hope they've opened it) and I've said we can help. I can't think of anything more I could do apart from something that involved swearing  so I feel at a loss. Getting mad at her isn't going going to work but I'd genuinely welcome any ideas that don't stress me anymore. But I feel also the best thing to do is walk away.


----------



## cheekyscrip

What tops it all: here officials organized a meeting for all head teachers ( schools open during Easter too for kids of key workers, but as they said “ everyone is key worker”)...
Meeting?!!!

Ok, sitting apart but in the same room, using the same door and door handle etc... to be read general information that could have been emailed!!!!

I am just furious, this how they put my OH, In unnecessary danger and by own government officials!!!
Then same officials tell people to self isolate???

And no protection for teachers and any staff members in schools.


----------



## Siskin

If only people who flout the staying in rule could see that today 708 people died including a 5 year old child and it’s their fault


----------



## MollySmith

You know what, I’m going to find some pavement chalk.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> If only people who flout the staying in rule could see that today 708 people died including a 5 year old child and it's their fault


The death rate is only going to get worse.

My neighbours chatted to me the other day about how I was coping. He was worried about having to tend his chickens on the allotment. I said surely that's animal welfare issue if you don't.. He said he heard a rumour about people reporting people though. To be honest I think he would be one to report people though. This lockdown hasn't stopped their family visiting or a neighbour visiting from across the road though.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

lullabydream said:


> As people say, we are all in this together. Yes we need to do certain things as individuals and our own family groups, and but we can't get complacent and think it doesn't matter what others are doing. It really does..


I don't think it's a case of thinking it doesn't matter what others are doing - of course it matters, as you say - it matters to the NHS and yes, it matters to those they may pass it on to (although if they are also mixing then they too know the risk). However there does become a point whereby I am not going to stress over other people behaving idiotically because it's pointless. I can certainly be cross because they are putting NHS workers at risk (and I am). But I suppose if they want to put themselves at risk.............

The police have been trying to move people along in Brighton as the seafront is packed apparently. It will be worse tomorrow as it's going to be even sunnier. It is crazy. Personally I don't understand it but I am sure they all think they have a 'reason' to ignore the directive to stay at home.

J


----------



## kimthecat

> My neighbours chatted to me the other day about how I was coping. He was worried about having to tend his chickens on the allotment. I said surely that's animal welfare issue if you don't.. He said he heard a rumour about people reporting people though. To be honest I think he would be one to report people though. This lockdown hasn't stopped their family visiting or a neighbour visiting from across the road though.


people can be really spiteful sometimes, My sister in touch with someone on the phone and they told her off because her hubby has to drive her to local park 5 mins away yet that same person walks their dogs twice a day .

Im trying not to worry and do the best OH and I can in the circumstances . Walking at quiet times either early morning or late at night to avoid people , limiting shopping to one shop. OH and I not seeing our families. 
Feel sad that we are not seeing OH;s sister's little puppy growing up  but a small thing compared to others.


----------



## cheekyscrip

I think we should not just blame the people.
Level of testing per capita in UK is similar to this in Chile, Romania or Greece. 

Deaths are the result of chaos, confusion and not listening to experts.

Not wanting to cooperate, not acting until too late.

More protective gear, more ventilators etc. might have been ready.

Other countries acted much faster and orderly.

Now government realised they are out of necessary chemicals, now they realised that ordinary times regulations and red tape were impeding actions?

Yes, blame the ordinary people for glaring errors of judgement of those in power.

It is not a political post, but I blame the politicians in power of not listening to WHO and refusing to join forces and work together.


Lack of supplies is not a fault of ordinary people.

Seems the first death was on 28th February. 

Yet ball on Titanic went on...


----------



## MollySmith

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> I don't think it's a case of thinking it doesn't matter what others are doing - of course it matters, as you say - it matters to the NHS and yes, it matters to those they may pass it on to (although if they are also mixing then they too know the risk). However there does become a point whereby I am not going to stress over other people behaving idiotically because it's pointless. I can certainly be cross because they are putting NHS workers at risk (and I am). But I suppose if they want to put themselves at risk.............
> 
> The police have been trying to move people along in Brighton as the seafront is packed apparently. It will be worse tomorrow as it's going to be even sunnier. It is crazy. Personally I don't understand it but I am sure they all think they have a 'reason' to ignore the directive to stay at home.
> 
> J


They also put the police in danger too.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18358637.coronavirus-brighton-seafront-busy-despite-warnings/


----------



## MollySmith

cheekyscrip said:


> I think we should not just blame the people.
> Level of testing per capita in UK is similar to this in Chile, Romania or Greece.
> 
> Deaths are the result of chaos, confusion and not listening to experts.
> 
> Not wanting to cooperate, not acting until too late.
> 
> More protective gear, more ventilators etc. might have been ready.
> 
> Other countries acted much faster and orderly.
> 
> Now government realised they are out of necessary chemicals, now they realised that ordinary times regulations and red tape were impeding actions?
> 
> Yes, blame the ordinary people for glaring errors of judgement of those in power.
> 
> It is not a political post, but I blame the politicians in power of not listening to WHO and refusing to join forces and work together.
> 
> Lack of supplies is not a fault of ordinary people.
> 
> Seems the first death was on 28th February.
> 
> Yet ball on Titanic went on...


Yes agree. Without wishing to get political too  since that isn't useful as you say and I think any party would struggle, the herd immunity approach may well have made people complacent. Lock down, clear concise language and rules are the only way. I think we're getting there slowly with that but it's been diluted so even as someone who tries to keep up, I'm struggling to know.

Those who are blasé could easily point to those in charge and show very recent evidence of rule breaking. Only yesterday from Matt Hancock outside the Nightingale on Sky News - all those gathered were not abiding at all with social distancing in the filmed report. On the BBC last night they were showing a city centre somewhere which was clearly old footage - I hope - with people in close groups. It needs to be consistent 100% to drum the message home to these idiots.


----------



## cheekyscrip

MollySmith said:


> Yes agree. Without wishing to get political too  since that isn't useful as you say and I think any party would struggle, the herd immunity approach may well have made people complacent. Lock down, clear concise language and rules are the only way. I think we're getting there slowly with that but it's been diluted so even as someone who tries to keep up, I'm struggling to know.
> 
> Those who are blasé could easily point to those in charge and show very recent evidence of rule breaking. Only yesterday from Matt Hancock outside the Nightingale on Sky News - all those gathered were not abiding at all with social distancing in the filmed report. On the BBC last night they were showing a city centre somewhere which was clearly old footage - I hope - with people in close groups. It needs to be consistent 100% to drum the message home to these idiots.


Too many idiots in charge.

Without sounding political I can imagine Thatcher in this position getting together with Reagan, Kohl, Gorbachev and pulling together no matter what.

Now all Europe: EU, Russia, UK etc.., should stand together to safe lives.
The whole world should listen to WHO.
Forget Brexit, forget Us and Them else we are making it worse and ordinary people pay with their lives.

This is war and the virus is the enemy.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I'm absolutely bricking it when I have to go food shopping!


That's why it's important that EVERYONE follows the rules otherwise they could be picking up or passing on the virus to those family members of theirs who will be in the same supermarkets that the rest of us have to use.

It's just not on.

If they flout the rules, pick it up and then infect someone else who dies they will have blood on their hands.


----------



## lorilu

So glad it's still cold and rainy here. And looks to be all the coming week, except for Monday. I'll be able to have my daily walk in peace.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> They may just presume older people are dying, or those with underlying health conditions but those in hospital thar need treatment and walk out will no doubt be of all ages, from all walks of life.
> .


Maybe the fact that a 5yr old has died
abeit, apparently, with underlying conditions
might bring the reality home for some peope


----------



## mrs phas

my friends son drove to ham hill thursday
as he wanted to let his dog have a run
he came back to a police notice on his windshield
saying his number plate had been noted
and if found there again they would consider fining him
carried on to say
that if Ham Hill was too far to walk
he was being irresponsible to be driving there
exercise meant your local area only


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Maybe the fact that a 5yr old has died
> abeit, apparently, with underlying conditions
> might bring the reality home for some peope


When I saw that it was a 5 year old I checked to see if there were underlying health conditions, the report didn't mention any, I guess you've found an updated version. But I agree maybe just hearing or seeing that a 5 year old had died may make some think twice, well I would like to think so anyway, some just don't care about anyone apart from themselves.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> That's why it's important that EVERYONE follows the rules otherwise they could be picking up or passing on the virus to those family members of theirs who will be in the same supermarkets that the rest of us have to use.
> 
> It's just not on.
> 
> If they flout the rules, pick it up and then infect someone else who dies they will have blood on their hands.


I think that's the problem they don't seem to realise.

Its only family and friend but its the large picture of contact.

As @Jamesgoeswalkies am not going to loose sleep over these people, yes I might moan on here about things my neighbours do, or what I hear or see. I hope something will twig, I hope someone will make them see sense before it's a lost loved one to make them see sense.

@mrsphas where I am there hasn't been a high number of cases/deaths but in the local news online, there's been pleas from mothers, with young children whose had the virus, young adults who have had the virus. Usually I just think oh typical local news 5 minutes of fame, but they are all putting out the same message. Stay at home, stay safe. I never thought I was too young to be affected etc, I heard it doesn't affect children badly but it did... I know people are staying away from the news but honestly they must see some of these stories and just hear the pleas and understand. Stay at home means stay at home


----------



## MollySmith

And despite all this Nigel Farage was encouraging people to go out on LBC. They need to take responsibility for his drivel otherwise they are culpable.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> That's why it's important that EVERYONE follows the rules otherwise they could be picking up or passing on the virus to those family members of theirs who will be in the same supermarkets that the rest of us have to use.
> 
> It's just not on.
> 
> If they flout the rules, pick it up and then infect someone else who dies they will have blood on their hands.


Yes.

Unfortunately my pavement chalk might be in the miscellaneous drawer/s  but I'm going to start writing it on the road. There's a good graphic about infection too that I might try to replicate.

Maybe less rainbows in windows and more about words about staying at home.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> @mrsphas where I am there hasn't been a high number of cases/deaths but in the local news online, there's been pleas from mothers, with young children whose had the virus, young adults who have had the virus. Usually I just think oh typical local news 5 minutes of fame, but they are all putting out the same message. Stay at home, stay safe. I never thought I was too young to be affected etc, I heard it doesn't affect children badly but it did... I know people are staying away from the news but honestly they must see some of these stories and just hear the pleas and understand. Stay at home means stay at home


@Jamesgoeswalkies got exactly what i meant in his post
its not about not caring per se, cos of course i care
I care about my two sons who are key workers, i care about those on the front line without correct ppe, i care about my bin men, without whom all of us would have piles of stinking rubbish, attracting all sorts of vermin, I care about my postie, i care about all of those who could be umbrellad under the term key worker, first second, or third line

what I was getting at was its no use caring about next door at one having a revolving front door, or across the road having their grandkids over
THAT behaviour doesnt affect my day to day, Im not going to sit curtain twitching noting down who comes and goes, how often or when, whether they take the car out or not
yes, they may, eventually affect the ones i do care about ( see above)
theyve seen the news and the info mercials, just the same as i have
they know what they should be doing
but
me sitting here fretting over it will do nothing for my mental health


----------



## havoc

The majority of people in hospital are not there with Coronavirus and any of us could end up there with non related issues. Can I just beg people to be ready for such a scenario. Staff are busy as many have been seconded to Coronavirus wards. Make sure you have a mobile phone with plenty of credit if you are on PAYG. Keep it topped up as it is the only contact you can have with family. Make sure you have the charge lead available to take with you - with a plug. There is NO visiting.

My father is in hospital with end stage cancer. It is quite surreal that he is still alive but I know I'll never see him again. He is so old that he never thought to pick up his mobile phone when he was taken in. Luckily his consultant is a man of some compassion and asked that I bring it in (as far as the entrance only) - after five days of me not knowing if my father was alive or dead. They are too busy to answer phones, to be honest why would they bother, it isn't as if they're ever going to have a family member turn up and call them out on it. Eventually the only way I got through was to work out the basic switchboard number, ring various possible extensions until somebody, somewhere in the building answered and transferred the call. It then showed up as internal rather than external so someone on the ward picked up the phone.

Be ready. If possible have a grab bag on hand. If you have an elderly relative make sure they are kitted out ready.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Havoc, so sorry things have turned out this way with your father


----------



## havoc

Thank you but I’m seriously not looking for sympathy. I really want others to be aware so they can be prepared. Everything is about Coronavirus at the moment and people forget other things still go on.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> Thank you but I'm seriously not looking for sympathy. I really want others to be aware so they can be prepared. Everything is about Coronavirus at the moment and people forget other things still go on.


Empathy rather than sympathy 

Not a nice situation to be in, regardless.


----------



## kimthecat

@havoc Oh Im so sorry to hear that. Thats awful.


----------



## havoc

It’s a situation many are in. I’m not alone and it’s just the way things are. I’d be the happiest person on earth if my advice to be prepared made a tiny bit of difference to one person.


----------



## Silverpaw

Ahh,Havoc, bless you and bless your dad.My dad will be 99years old in July.I keep stressing how important it is that he doesn't have a fall or anything that can be prevented,as ending up in hospital would be a life sentence.It's so difficult,my sister and I are supporting our parents to continue to live independently but are very conscious that we can pose a risk to them.Thanks for your advice, I've really taken it on board but hoping I don't need it.Hope everything goes as peaceful as it can for your dad.With thanks and all good wishes X


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> It's a situation many are in. I'm not alone and it's just the way things are. I'd be the happiest person on earth if my advice to be prepared made a tiny bit of difference to one person.


Your advice makes sense and one to action. I will tell my elderly parents, and I'm so sorry to read about your dad.

****

And, Brighton beach is being going mad on Twitter, lots of people with photos of an empty beach with dated webcam footage and seemingly calling out the Daily Mail et al for posting photos of last year.


----------



## willa

They say loss of smell & taste is a symptom.

Not helpful for people who’ve never had a sense of smell. I’ve never been able to smell anything in my life !


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> They say loss of smell & taste is a symptom.
> 
> Not helpful for people who've never had a sense of smell. I've never been able to smell anything in my life !


Not "a symptom". A possible symptom, one of many possible symptoms. Like all the other possible symptoms, not everyone affected will experience loss of sense of smell or taste.


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> They say loss of smell & taste is a symptom.
> 
> Not helpful for people who've never had a sense of smell. I've never been able to smell anything in my life !


This can happen when you have cold and flu and not all people are reporting this symptom.

I would try not to worry currently unduly about a lot one symptom, which is one of various reported


----------



## willa

lullabydream said:


> This can happen when you have cold and flu and not all people are reporting this symptom.
> 
> I would try not to worry currently unduly about a lot one symptom, which is one of various reported


I'm not worrying about it, no point !

It's that bad I couldn't smell my nieces soiled nappy, & she was sitting on my lap, yet as soon as my brother walked into the room he smelt it


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Lurcherlad

@MollySmith

maybe a copy of this through your neighbours' letterbox would help? 



Magyarmum said:


>


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> maybe a copy of this through your neighbours' letterbox would help?


Definitely more useful than the 'stay home, protect the nhs, save lives' mantra which is getting quite tired. It obviously hasn't worked for many and is starting to sound much like 'strong and stable' now.

My own next door neighbour has her grandchild dropped off every day while the parents go to work. I don't think any message would change that. In their minds being part of the same family equates to being the same household. I should think that way of thinking isn't unusual.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I wish they would stop telling us lies, I'm *just* talking about protective clothing in this article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52145140


----------



## purringcats

Magyarmum said:


>


If this was printed off and put through everyones front door people would probably take this more seriously and stay at home instead of flouting the rules and sunbathing in parks and on beaches across the UK.


----------



## purringcats

If those that decide to break the rules abided by the rules we could get this under control quicker and have the restrictions slowly lifted.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wish they would stop telling us lies, I'm *just* talking about protective clothing in this article.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52145140


That's terrible! Hungary has just received a massive shipment from China and we've only got 733 confirmed cases. And this is on top of what is being made in Hungary itself.

https://hungarytoday.hu/coronavirus-china-sends-equipment-face-mask/

*Coronavirus: China Sends 4 Million Face Masks and Over 400,000 Protective Suits to Hungary*


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wish they would stop telling us lies, I'm *just* talking about protective clothing in this article.


Have to say, it does seem more and more that the government doesn't have the handle on this that they should and increasingly want to blame the public for their failings.


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> Have to say, it does seem more and more that the government doesn't have the handle on this that they should and increasingly want to blame the public for their failings.


I too would have thought by now that they should have the logistics in place to protect NHS staff.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wish they would stop telling us lies, I'm *just* talking about protective clothing in this article.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52145140


Not sure what is a lie what isnt there TBH! I agree with the first part, the description of what is happening sounds about right, we are only a couple of ICU beds away from full capacity.
Some hospitals must have a major supply failure though if they are wearing bin bags in ICU and high risk areas! I know here everybody has gowns, gloves, goggles, etc where advised. For your bog standard Covid cases we get gloves, fairly flimsy masks and plastic pinnies (and honestly a bin bag would probably be more effective then the pinny!LOL). Gotta save the good stuff for the high risk areas though so you just wind up washing your hands constantly.

Kinda annoyed this morning to see 2 blokes sitting on their front doorsteps eating breakfast. The houses open directly onto the pavement of a busy road...and they have back gardens!:Shifty Just go sit out back and dont force people to walk by you, idiots!!


----------



## rona

So, they are threatening to stop outside exercise............good way to get everyone out to enjoy the sun!!


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> So, they are threatening to stop outside exercise


It's a good way of diverting attention from uncomfortable truth. There are actually very few people 'congregating' but keeping the focus on them as the problem does make for good headlines.

Incubation period is up to 14 days
Symptoms last up to 7 days
Then those who are going to react badly don't recover and need hospital.

Today's death toll is from people infected up to four weeks ago - before there were any restrictions. There's no way they can say current levels of adherence are or aren't making a significant difference.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> It's a good way of diverting attention from uncomfortable truth. There are actually very few people 'congregating' but keeping the focus on them as the problem does make for good headlines.
> 
> Incubation period is up to 14 days
> Symptoms last up to 7 days
> Then those who are going to react badly don't recover and need hospital.
> 
> Today's death toll is from people infected up to four weeks ago - before there were any restrictions. There's no way they can say current levels of adherence are or aren't making a significant difference.


That's not strictly true.

Incubation period is upto 14 days, but most commonly people come down with symptoms sooner 5-6 days. So this is why the lock down should make a difference in theory.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Incubation period is upto 14 days, but most commonly people come down with symptoms sooner 5-6 days. So this is why the lock down should make a difference in theory


So average 6 days plus 5-7 days of symptoms before needing hospitalisation plus a few days to not responding well. We're still days (at best) away from being able to lay it all at the door of the relatively few people who haven't kept their distance.

I'm not saying social distancing isn't the right thing here. I'm pointing out that there's too much attention on a very few stupid people.


----------



## Cleo38

So if parks & public spaces are being closed then what are people supposed to do for exercise? Surely this means that more people will gather in those spaces that are open & be more of a risk? I feel so sorry for people in urban areas who don't have access to gardens & have such few options.


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> I feel so sorry for people in urban areas who don't have access to gardens & have such few options.


Us 12 weekers aren't even allowed in the garden ,if we do have one
We are allowed an open window, for ventilation
Cue lots of people with vitD deficiency when we are allowed out
Either that, or
1.5 million morlocks will appear


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Every country has had to go down the restricted activity route - and then tighten it because not everyone was listening. The only country that managed it successfully of course was China who used their state controlled mass surveillance - if you are told to stay in in China you don;t get the choice of going to the park. Saying 'But I was bored' doesn't get you sympathy.

The only thing that will eventually stop Corvid 19 is herd immunity - presuming that it doesn't mutate - and we (I'm not just talking the UK here) are a way off that yet. For herd immunity you need over 60% to catch and survive and build antibodies. Then the virus eventually has no where to go. The Stay At Home is to protect the NHS being overwhelmed and to protect the vulnerable whilst this happens. And whilst they work on a vaccine. So I think i shall view those who wish to take to parks and beaches this weekend (and it's very tempting - I am within spitting distance of the coast, too) as volunteers. Volunteers that will catch and survive (they hope) the virus and make up some more of that 60%+.

J


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> Us 12 weekers aren't even allowed in the garden ,if we do have one


Incorrect - even the At Risk letter says "Get out into the garden or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others"


----------



## havoc

I too feel for those who live in built up areas. Frankly, if people are staying local and maintaining distance from others then they are within the rules wherever they are. Sunbathers are pushing it too far though - that’s not exercise 

Hoping that some sort of blitz spirit should emerge was never likely. This situation is the polar opposite. No gathering for support, no entertainment etc. All the things which were kept going during the war because they brought people together are the very things which have been stopped. This situation is very divisive, people are quick to point the finger even when no law is being broken.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> So average 6 days plus 5-7 days of symptoms before needing hospitalisation plus a few days to not responding well. We're still days (at best) away from being able to lay it all at the door of the relatively few people who haven't kept their distance.


so what you're saying is that we should wait a couple of weeks until the people who are out enjoying the sunshine have infected a bunch of people, then wait for them to be hospitalized and _then_ get annoyed with them??:Hilarious



Cleo38 said:


> So if parks & public spaces are being closed then what are people supposed to do for exercise?


Just do what people do round here....walk or jog or cycle around the streets. Its not pretty but its fine for exercise and it keeps you moving coz nobody wants to sit and chill on the pavement next to dog poop and flytipping piles!LOL



mrs phas said:


> Cue lots of people with vitD deficiency when we are allowed out
> Either that, or
> 1.5 million morlocks will appear


well, you should take supplements......although TBF the country will be in a state by the time you all emerge from your holes. Maybe start planning for morlock world domination!


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> so what you're saying is that we should wait a couple of weeks until the people who are out enjoying the sunshine have infected a bunch of people, then wait for them to be hospitalized and _then_ get annoyed with them


I'm saying those few are probably going to make very little difference in the short term. If you believe the few who are not compliant are the reason for the huge temporary hospitals being built then fair enough, I don't. Govt know this is going to get a lot worse, we're nowhere near the expected peak yet and there's a damn good job being done of blaming the public for it.


----------



## Sacrechat

Jesthar said:


> Incorrect - even the At Risk letter says "Get out into the garden or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others"


I would have thought sitting in your garden would be safe so long as you don't stand within 6 foot of your neighbours chatting. Our garden is completely enclosed with fences and conifers; we can't even see our neighbours. My husband and I have been out in our garden daily doing jobs.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> I'm saying those few are probably going to make very little difference in the short term.


True...but if you add the few at the beach, to the few at the park, to the few at the seafront, etc, etc eventually they turn into 'the many'!


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Incorrect - even the At Risk letter says "Get out into the garden or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others"


no it doesnt
i have both letters, and all texts, in front of me now


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> I'm saying those few are probably going to make very little difference in the short term. If you believe the few who are not compliant are the reason for the huge temporary hospitals being built then fair enough, I don't. Govt know this is going to get a lot worse, we're nowhere near the expected peak yet and there's a damn good job being done of blaming the public for it.


My concern with them is that they could infect those who have no choice but to be out in public to shop for themselves, their family and the vulnerable (however briefly, within the rules and following hygiene guidelines).

Their attitude could make a very big difference to someone or a number of people.

There are, of course, many factors involved in achieving a good outcome in the end but the "flouters'" attitude is inexcusable imo.

My OH has to get a blood test at a clinic tomorrow and then another round of chemo in hospital Wednesday. He could encounter an infected person (despite taking all precautions) who has been flouting the rules for the last couple of weeks (or someone infected by one). Or I could be infected and I need to give intimate assistance to my OH.

The phlebotomists or nurses could have been unwittingly infected and will be in very close contact with my OH.


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> well, you should take supplements......!


already do thanks!
cancer, the ever giving present
good to know you think it amusing, that many more, may, have to take suppliments, yet another drain on nhs, though


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> There are, of course, many factors involved in achieving a good outcome in the end but the "flouters'" attitude is inexcusable imo


If you abide by the guidelines they can't affect you - or if they can you surely have to wonder why those are the guidelines we've been told to follow.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> already do thanks!
> cancer, the ever giving present
> good to know you think it amusing, that many more, may, have to take suppliments, yet another drain on nhs, though


Most doctors are not subscribing supplements anymore, they are gone along with other things you can buy over the counter even though you can't always buy easily the amounts required. Well you can but take large amounts then easily available. 
Some doctors may subscribe, just like some doctors may subscribe paracetamol still. It's still under their descretion


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> True...but if you add the few at the beach, to the few at the park, to the few at the seafront, etc, etc eventually they turn into 'the many


It does but what does that have to do with you or me. Our only job at the moment is to organise our lives as best we can within the guidelines. We are responsible for our own behaviour only. Very quickly we've been turned into a nation of nasty minded curtain twitchers led by the nose into doing so by a press desperate for any headline or anything which makes a decent photo.


----------



## cat001

I'll post this up as it's on the topic of coronavirus and thought it was a pretty good video (science vs politics)


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> Most doctors are not subscribing supplements anymore, they are gone along with other things you can buy over the counter even though you can't always buy easily the amounts required. Well you can but take large amounts then easily available.
> Some doctors may subscribe, just like some doctors may subscribe paracetamol still. It's still under their descretion


vitd for cases such as osteoperosis or acute symptoms of deficiency are still prescribed
I take vitD3 as the cancer, or rather the treatment, left me with severe osteoperosis, flew straight past osteopenia
due to that mine is prescribed
some will also prescribe it if you are entitled to free prescriptions, as they will paracetamol or cocodimol
but your right
unless for serious conditions, it is upto the gp discretion, as with all suppliments


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> If you abide by the guidelines they can't affect you - or if they can you surely have to wonder why those are the guidelines we've been told to follow.


I wish we believed that and it was so simple. My (usually pragmatic OH) is actually extremely worried about the added risk to his health, given that his immune system has been decimated by the chemo (and he suffered a pulmonary embolism last month because of the treatment).

We can't prevent someone else invading our safe zone nor that of one of the health professionals we have to come into contact with.

Just getting from the car to the phlebotomists chair or chemo ward we are running the gauntlet.

Unfortunately we don't have full hazchem suits, masks and gloves to hand so I find it hard not to be genuinely concerned and disappointed at the attitude of some selfish individuals.


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> Just do what people do round here....walk or jog or cycle around the streets. Its not pretty but its fine for exercise and it keeps you moving coz nobody wants to sit and chill on the pavement next to dog poop and flytipping piles!LOL


But that's surely worse in some ways as you may be closer to a lot more people. At least in a park you would have more room to be away from people & would be able to enjoy the surroundings, after all exercise isn't just about physical health. As long as they are adhering to distancing then I don't understand what the issue is.


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> Cue lots of people with vitD deficiency when we are allowed out
> Either that, or
> 1.5 million morlocks will appear





mrs phas said:


> good to know you think it amusing, that many more, may, have to take suppliments, yet another drain on nhs, though


Sorry, if I offended you. Maybe in future either dont joke about things you take seriously (unless you really think Morlocks will appear) or indicate that you dont wish for people to follow your conversation....it can be very confusing for those of us who deal with things with humor.


----------



## lorilu

I have a friend who I would describe as extreme extrovert. She is (has always been, we've been friends for 50 years) what I would call obsessed with having "something to do" and "someone to do it with". She's retired now and has a group of friends she's been hiking regularly with (except when she's traveling somewhere) since she retired. She informed me today that she is still hiking with these friends, one-on one (they take turns apparently) keeping a 6 foot distance from each other.

Somehow this just doesn't sound safe to me. She lives in a town that is a "bedroom community" for NYC. (Less than 2 hour drive, probably only an hour or so on the train). 

I think she is being very foolish to indulge herself this way. I DO understand how difficult it must be for her, being the type of person she is. Staying at home with just her husband and her dog is probably very hard for her. But for goodness sake. This is something we all have to cope with and it's not going to be forever. 

I think it must be hardest on school children, used to being with their friends. Especially the ones too young to understand. I saw a photograph the other day of a boy about 5 years old sitting in front of a computer crying because after the group schooling with his friends on the computer he had to say good bye to their faces on the screen and didn't understand why he couldn't play with them.

Adults need to just buck up and deal with it and behave responsibly. My friend isn't and it really annoys me.


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> I'm saying those few are probably going to make very little difference in the short term. If you believe the few who are not compliant are the reason for the huge temporary hospitals being built then fair enough, I don't. Govt know this is going to get a lot worse, we're nowhere near the expected peak yet and there's a damn good job being done of blaming the public for it.


I'd have to respectfully disagree with that to some extent. There is a reason that epidemiologists fear a virus outbreak more than anything else, and that's because there is no treatment for the infected, only supportive care in the hope their body can eventually defeat it. The only way to control it is to control the delivery vector.

Unfortunately, in this case the vector is humans, which means that combatting it is a psychological battle, not a medical one. The best treatment is for all humans to avoid as much human-to-human contact as possible for several weeks - but significant numbers of people aren't going to do as they are told when asked. We already saw this in the UK, as the government tried asking nicely, but had to progress to a lockdown status as they were getting widely ignored.

And at this point it boils down to a numbers game - the more people who don't follow the rules, the bigger the problem you have. It's worth noting that even following the guidelines to the letter doesnt completely eliminate risk, just lower it to a level the medical services can cope with. But each person that breaks the guidelines increase the risk not only to themselves, but also to everyone else in the areas they visit, so the people still having house/garden parties or going to parks and beaches could quite easily facilitate the spread of the virus even to those following the rules. We had a pub around here who had to fence off their entire premisis as 10+ groups of people a day were organising bring-your-own drinks parties in their beer garden and letting their kids run riot in the car park. If just one of the people in the early groups was shedding the virus, that could have easily lingered on surfaces and infected people from every group.

Personally I'm watching with interest the numbers coming out of China vs the USA. China has a significant psychological advantage here, despite their massive population, as they are used to having to comply with government orders - or else. The USA, in contrast, champion the freedom of the individual, to the extent that New York actually threatened to sue another area which ruled that all New York people 'escaping' from the Covid-19 hotbed that is NYC to their area had to go into mandatory 14 day quarantine upon arrival. I sadly suspect the USA will come out of this very badly, both medically and economically, especially given how a lot of the workers who have no choice but to work also tend to be the ones who have little access to healthcare.



Cleo38 said:


> But that's surely worse in some ways as you may be closer to a lot more people. At least in a park you would have more room to be away from people & would be able to enjoy the surroundings, after all exercise isn't just about physical health. As long as they are adhering to distancing then I don't understand what the issue is.


The issue is mainly that a lot of them _aren't_ adhering the social distancing... Quite a few parks around here have closed because people kept ignoring the guidelines.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> It does but what does that have to do with you or me. Our only job at the moment is to organise our lives as best we can within the guidelines. We are responsible for our own behaviour only. Very quickly we've been turned into a nation of nasty minded curtain twitchers led by the nose into doing so by a press desperate for any headline or anything which makes a decent photo.


oh i wish i could give you a round of applause for this

one of my fb pages is going mad 
with people complaining
re a young lady sunbathing on the meadows, 
in front of her own flat
with NO ONE near her
except of course
for the busybodies who've gone over
to tell her how irresponsible she is
allegedly
she replied to one,
that this was her exercise time, 
as she doesnt have a garden, 
and, 
as she was alone,
in front of her flat
she was probably less dangerous than those walking their dogs for hours, 
going through shared gates/climbing stiles etc
she got called an ignorant cow, by the 'gentleman' who originaly shared this
and he wondered why she told him to go forth

now,
I happen to agree with her
IF people start gathering,
she can easily go indoors
but
until then
shes complying with social distancing
and
only going out once a day
unlike most dog walkers
who are still doing two or three walks a day


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m proud of the way my 23 year old son is handling this situation.

He is working from home and isolating with me and his dad, taking a run or bike ride once a day to keep healthy and fit.

Considering he normally has a very busy social life he is making sacrifices to keep our family as safe as possible, particularly his dad.

He and his mates (also following guidelines) are staying in touch via social media and PlayStation games (FIFA and killing zombies together no doubt ) and “meet up” for a beer on line every Friday and for birthdays etc.


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Sorry, if I offended you. Maybe in future either dont joke about things you take seriously (unless you really think Morlocks will appear) or indicate that you dont wish for people to follow your conversation....it can be very confusing for those of us who deal with things with humor.


i deal with plenty of things with humour
as i did with the morlocks phrase
I was quite pleased you 'got it' actually, i was quite shocked, when i used the phrase in RL, that many had to ask, and, then admoit to not having read the book, nr even seen the films
which is why, i only quoted the piece I found, not even offensive, just unamusing
having osteo, is not amusing to anyone
maybe had you thought a second, you, mightve, realised that using a laughing emoji, wasnt the best
I have to admit, it did make me feel you were laughing at me, rather than with me


----------



## Magyarmum

I lived throughout the HIV epidemic in South Africa and until they knew *exactly* how it was spread, one was told to assume that *everyone was infected*, which is what I'm doing with this pandemic


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> I wish we believed that and it was so simple. My (usually pragmatic OH) is actually extremely worried about the added risk to his health, given that his immune system has been decimated by the chemo (and he suffered a pulmonary embolism last month because of the treatment).
> 
> We can't prevent someone else invading our safe zone nor that of one of the health professionals we have to come into contact with.
> 
> Just getting from the car to the phlebotomists chair or chemo ward we are running the gauntlet.
> 
> Unfortunately we don't have full hazchem suits, masks and gloves to hand so I find it hard not to be genuinely concerned and disappointed at the attitude of some selfish individuals.


Exactly, its so much about trust isn't it in others..

What the government is shown by the media of people going to the parks, not caring about social distancing. TV news reporters having to question is sunbathing allowed in parks I mean surely they shouldn't have to ask.. That's not exercise where the emphasis is movement. I think what the media shows is just the tip of the iceberg.

Am accused her of being a curtain twitcher as my neighbour has said hello to me, plus her family and another neighbour whilst I am in my own garden supervising dogs, putting washing out, putting things in the bin you know it's not hard to observe. These were people who were concerned about the rules having to attend to chickens, but feel it's OK with family and friends but don't see the bigger picture. No point in explaining to them. As from reading here, friends and family seem to be fine to meet for others too. They see it as an extension of 'household'

I haven't jumped on the online shopping, as I live a stones throw away from 2 supermarkets and my town centre. Though I am classed as vulnerable myself. So I have to shop, and more than I ever did. Shopping is becoming worse. Supermarkets are changing how they are handling this pandemic every week to different measures. Its scary. I can't see their logic as no matter how hard I try social distancing that was easy in shops, is getting harder.

So although I take precautions, my hands even with using moisturiser are extremely dry from hand washing. There now might be something in aerolisation transmission of the virus, which makes places like shops terrible, and even worse if they have air conditioning like many places do. So it is worrying to those who are following the guidelines, or trying to isolate, knowing yes we are doing everything right but this alone doesn't make us immune but it should.


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Most doctors are not subscribing supplements anymore, they are gone along with other things you can buy over the counter even though you can't always buy easily the amounts required. Well you can but take large amounts then easily available.
> Some doctors may subscribe, just like some doctors may subscribe paracetamol still. It's still under their descretion


They have to prescribe my supplements because I cannot absorb much through food. If I don't get my supplements, they might as well sign my death certificate now. I have to take 1000mg of calcium/Vit D, 400mg iron, the strongest multivitamin only on prescription, Forceval, every day, plus a B12 shot every 3 months. These supplements are essential for me or I will become seriously ill and at even higher risk of contracting Covid 19 than I am already, that is why I've had no issues ordering them from my doctors just this week. They've even booked me in for my B12 shot on Monday. If they don't prescribe them and I suffer malnutrition, that would be negligent and if I died my family could sue them. They can't just do nothing.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> It's worth noting that even following the guidelines to the letter doesnt completely eliminate risk, just lower it to a level the medical services can cope with


No it doesn't and it won't. This idea that if everyone just obeys the rules it will all be over quicker is the opposite of what is intended. It's to slow the rate of infection to a level medical services can cope with at any one time. There is no exit strategy, this situation could continue until there's a vaccine which could be next year at best.


----------



## cheekyscrip

havoc said:


> Have to say, it does seem more and more that the government doesn't have the handle on this that they should and increasingly want to blame the public for their failings.


Unfortunately some are very good on campaign front but not so good then it is down to brass tacks...

I do wish people of different cut were in power ( it is not political, I don't care Blue, Red or Rainbow).

Know we need someone of gravitas and who would listen to experts and cooperate with the rest of the world.

The lack of protection for NHS staff is not the fault of the public!!!!
Same with lack of clear information and instructions.

Think Theresa The Robot would possibly be better in that situation.

Now we really need to get the job done.

Here we can all agree.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm proud of the way my 23 year old son is handling this situation.
> 
> He is working from home and isolating with me and his dad, taking a run or bike ride once a day to keep healthy and fit.
> 
> Considering he normally has a very busy social life he is making sacrifices to keep our family as safe as possible, particularly his dad.
> 
> He and his mates (also following guidelines) are staying in touch via social media and PlayStation games (FIFA and killing zombies together no doubt ) and "meet up" for a beer on line every Friday and for birthdays etc.


My eldest son's CEO suggested everyone had a virtual cocktail party like he had, which he throughly enjoyed! In my sons work meeting, they did find him rather odd!

My sons been a bit saddened that his friend who he talks a lot online due to work and living in a different town is now not online enough because he's been working a lot of hours at Tescos! It is good that they are all online though and can do the 'killing zombies' together and have a few drinks!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Perhaps they should give those without a garden a pass to go outside and everyone else just uses their own garden for fresh air and exercise. It would go at least some way at cutting down the amount of people going outdoors to exercise.


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> They have to prescribe my supplements because I cannot absorb much through food. If I don't get my supplements, they might as well sign my death certificate now. I have to take 1000mg of calcium/Vit D, 400mg iron, the strongest multivitamin only on prescription, Forceval, every day, plus a B12 shot every 3 months. These supplements are essential for me or I will become seriously ill and at even higher risk of contracting Covid 19 than I am already, that is why I've had no issues ordering them from my doctors just this week. They've even booked me in for my B12 shot on Monday. If they don't prescribe them and I suffer malnutrition, that would be negligent and if I died my family could sue them. They can't just do nothing.


Oh absolutely, I still got paracetamol prescribed and other medications prescribed when the hit list as I call it arrived. 
It's those that my need short doses. Am on ad cal and niacin


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Exactly, its so much about trust isn't it in others..
> 
> What the government is shown by the media of people going to the parks, not caring about social distancing. TV news reporters having to question is sunbathing allowed in parks I mean surely they shouldn't have to ask.. That's not exercise where the emphasis is movement. I think what the media shows is just the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> Am accused her of being a curtain twitcher as my neighbour has said hello to me, plus her family and another neighbour whilst I am in my own garden supervising dogs, putting washing out, putting things in the bin you know it's not hard to observe. These were people who were concerned about the rules having to attend to chickens, but feel it's OK with family and friends but don't see the bigger picture. No point in explaining to them. As from reading here, friends and family seem to be fine to meet for others too. They see it as an extension of 'household'
> 
> I haven't jumped on the online shopping, as I live a stones throw away from 2 supermarkets and my town centre. Though I am classed as vulnerable myself. So I have to shop, and more than I ever did. Shopping is becoming worse. Supermarkets are changing how they are handling this pandemic every week to different measures. Its scary. I can't see their logic as no matter how hard I try social distancing that was easy in shops, is getting harder.
> 
> So although I take precautions, my hands even with using moisturiser are extremely dry from hand washing. There now might be something in aerolisation transmission of the virus, which makes places like shops terrible, and even worse if they have air conditioning like many places do. So it is worrying to those who are following the guidelines, or trying to isolate, knowing yes we are doing everything right but this alone doesn't make us immune but it should.


Whilst I already had a few bottles of hand cream, I've bought some E45 hand wash and dermatological cream, because my hands are getting very dry too.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> The issue is mainly that a lot of them _aren't_ adhering the social distancing... Quite a few parks around here have closed because people kept ignoring the guidelines


So do you really believe these people are going to comply more once they're forced behind closed doors? Of course they aren't. They are going to visit family and friends as they go for their 'walk' round city streets.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> No it doesn't and it won't. This idea that if everyone just obeys the rules it will all be over quicker is the opposite of what is intended. It's to slow the rate of infection to a level medical services can cope with at any one time. There is no exit strategy, this situation could continue until there's a vaccine which could be next year at best.


 This is what bothers me, the deaths that are occurring now are not due to the NHS being unable to cope, people are dying due to the virus not lack of medical care. Yes of course the NHS needs to be protected so we don't get to a situation where people do die due to lack of ventilator but people like my mum will always be at risk until a vaccine has been developed.


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> Perhaps they should give those without a garden a pass to go outside and everyone else just uses their own garden for fresh air and exercise. It would go at least some way at cutting down the amount of people going outdoors to exercise


If the supermarkets can organise separation both inside the premises and in the car parks you'd think it could be managed easily enough in city parks - if there was the will to do so.


----------



## O2.0

We are one of only 5 states where there is no stay at home order. Our governor said "we are not ordering people to stay home, we are telling people to stay home." 
Non essential businesses have been ordered to close, and every essential business I've been to has good protocols in place to enforce social distancing. Lots of cleaning too. 

I know not everyone is taking this as seriously as we would like, our own Governor included. But all we can do is be responsible for our own behavior. 
I'm trying hard not to be judgmental of others who may be making different choices than I would. In an already stressful, uncertain time, it seems an unproductive use of emotional energy. This is all uncharted territory and there is so much we still don't know - including the role of asymptomatic carriers. We can do our best, but at the end of the day, only time will tell if we did the right thing.


----------



## shadowmare

I’m sorry, but if we do go into full lock down mode like some other countries with curfews and all, then people can only blame themselves.
I live in an urban area. I live in a tenement flat where I share a small, dirty garden with another 7 flats. I have two active breed dogs. And yet, somehow I’m surviving without dragging my butt to the nearby park every time we see some sunshine. If even half of every tenement building on our street would go to the park to get some fresh air during busy times, you’d find it hard to enjoy a walk whilst following the 2m rule. It’s not about the fact that people go to enjoy the outdoors. It’s about the fact that the volumes of every single person, every couple and every family of 3-4 makes it difficult to maintain safe distance at all times. 
If a person had a serious case of flu and had to stay at home due to illness for 7-10 days, they would. Back in January we had a number of storms coming in one after another and people had no problem staying at home and only leaving to go to work or buy food. If during this quarantine the weather outside would be rain and wind every single day, not one person of the “unfortunate” ones who now cry about not having gardens to enjoy, claiming to need vitamin D and what not, not one person would be going out to the park for a walk even if the weather went on for 2 weeks straight. And yet here we are. There’s a real risk to cause harm to someone close to you or even just a stranger, and everyone suddenly worries about their right to fresh air, need to exercise and worry about horrible consequences of not getting vitamin D for 14 days. 
Not everyone in Italy and Spain have access to gardens and balconies, yet their countries have not collapsed because of strict ‘stay at home’ policy. People aren’t dying because of vitamin D deficiency caused by quarantine. People are however dying because of a bloody pandemic.


----------



## rona

shadowmare said:


> not one person of the "unfortunate" ones who now cry about not having gardens to enjoy, not one person would be going out to the park for a walk even if the weather went on for 2 weeks straight.


Except my friend who only has a few months of mobility left before his terminal cancer gets too bad.
He has decided that he has to keep going or he might as well die now. 
He's taking every precaution he can to safeguard himself and others. If a few selfish people take away his last few months.............................:Rage


----------



## havoc

shadowmare said:


> even if the weather went on for 2 weeks straight


This isn't going to be 2 weeks though. Indications are it isn't going to be 2 months. Latest genius idea from Govt minister is that once an antibody test is available those who show they've had the disease will get a pass and be allowed out while those who did the right thing will remain prisoners in their homes for a further............. whatever. Hardly an incentive is it.


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> *So do you really believe these people are going to comply more* once they're forced behind closed doors? Of course they aren't. They are going to visit family and friends as they go for their 'walk' round city streets.


No, of course not.  That's why the government are beginning to make noises about more stringent measures. Probably more on a par with Spain than China, though.



havoc said:


> No it doesn't and it won't. This idea that if everyone just obeys the rules it will all be over quicker is the opposite of what is intended. It's to slow the rate of infection to a level medical services can cope with at any one time. There is no exit strategy, this situation could continue until there's a vaccine which could be next year at best.


Theoretically, total isolation for everyone would technically work to eradicate the virus as it would simply run out of new hosts to infect after a while. In reality that isn't workable, of course, but strict compliance with lockdown and social interaction guidelines are the best way of containing it - the extreme lockdown in China and the massive resultant drop in infection rate demonstrate that in real life, not just theory. But, again, we come back to them having the kind of totalitarian control that promotes social compliance, not freedom of the individual. Spain are starting to show improvements in their figures now following several weeks of much more stringent measures than we currently have, but have still extended their total lockdown for another three weeks. And, of course, there is the challenge of how far do you relax the rules once the immediate pressure has eased in order to prevent a resurgance of cases.



havoc said:


> Latest genius idea from Govt minister is that once an antibody test is available those who show they've had the disease will get a pass and be allowed out while those who did the right thing will remain prisoners in their homes for a further............. whatever. Hardly an incentive is it.


Well, that's just stupid...  They really do need to stop fannying about and get a coherant approach...


----------



## shadowmare

havoc said:


> This isn't going to be 2 weeks though. Indications are it isn't going to be 2 months. Latest genius idea from Govt minister is that once an antibody test is available those who show they've had the disease will get a pass and be allowed out while those who did the right thing will remain prisoners in their homes for a further............. whatever. Hardly an incentive is it.


But the length of time they keep adding onto the quarantine is because people are disregarding the advice. Surely it would be easier to stay at home for a month than to have this drag out until the summer.


----------



## Biggles50

It is difficult to observe social distancing when out walking our dog.

She is always on a lead!

Are other dogs?

No.

So their idiot owners have to come close to me to retrieve their dog that just wants to be friendly.

:Stop


----------



## havoc

shadowmare said:


> But the length of time they keep adding onto the quarantine is because people are disregarding the advice. Surely it would be easier to stay at home for a month than to have this drag out until the summer.


So if we go onto a complete lockdown does that mean the 12 week protocol for the vulnerable disappears too?


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> strict compliance with lockdown and social interaction guidelines are the best way of containing it - the extreme lockdown in China and the massive resultant drop in infection rate demonstrate that in real life, not just theory


Didn't happen in two weeks though and their approach was to isolate anyone showing symptoms. They forcibly removed people from homes/families. The BIG difference between there and any democratic country was that our esteemed leaders know they'll need to seek re-election at some point. However non political they're managing to appear at the moment it will affect their decisions.


----------



## cheekyscrip

shadowmare said:


> But the length of time they keep adding onto the quarantine is because people are disregarding the advice. Surely it would be easier to stay at home for a month than to have this drag out until the summer.


It will go on for about two years same like Spanish Flu. Likely.

Too late to contain it.

Just falling ill at reasonable pace ...

Total lockdown and for how long? 
Too much lockdown and then second wave.

We all can stay locked up for two years but who can afford it?


----------



## shadowmare

havoc said:


> Didn't happen in two weeks though and their approach was to isolate anyone showing symptoms. They forcibly removed people from homes/families. The BIG difference between there and any democratic country was that our esteemed leaders know they'll need to seek re-election at some point. However non political they're managing to appear at the moment it will affect their decisions.


That just says a lot about the society then doesn't it? Public that likes to put their "rights" and their needs before the greater good and elected government that cares more about maintaining their power than actually thinking about the wellbeing of the majority of the public rather than just their vote counts.


----------



## kimthecat

Id never work this one out. 

Its pretty weird that GCSE maths exams in 2030 are going to be like :
Linda needs a toilet roll , she is currently in 2020. she is allowed out the house once a day , she only has two bags for life, and is only supposed to buy what she needs, how many toilet rolls did Linda buy . ?








The picture wont show


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## havoc

shadowmare said:


> That just says a lot about the society then doesn't it? Public that likes to put their "rights" and their needs before the greater good


Depends what rights you mean and to an extent the facilities you're prepared to put in place to override them. You remove the single parent with symptoms to isolation and now you have to provide care for the children. Where do you do that as there's no doubt they've been exposed? What about removing the carer spouse of an elderly person, what do you put in place? What about the single person in 'self' isolation. They too must now be properly isolated just like anyone else. What about if they have dogs?


----------



## catz4m8z

lorilu said:


> I have a friend who I would describe as extreme extrovert. She is (has always been, we've been friends for 50 years) what I would call obsessed with having "something to do" and "someone to do it with".


Now could be her time to shine! Instead of going hiking with friends she could find out what sort of volunteer activities are needed in her area....something to do, exercise and doing a good deed!



mrs phas said:


> re a young lady sunbathing on the meadows,
> in front of her own flat
> with NO ONE near her
> except of course
> for the busybodies who've gone over
> to tell her how irresponsible she is
> 
> IF people start gathering,
> she can easily go indoors


I suppose thats fine in theory but the problem you run into then is everybody would be decided themselves what was an acceptable risk and what wasnt. It would be hard to maintain any kind of rules about social distancing if we all made up our own.



mrs phas said:


> I was quite pleased you 'got it' actually, i was quite shocked, when i used the phrase in RL, that many had to ask, and, then admoit to not having read the book, nr even seen the films
> I have to admit, it did make me feel you were laughing at me, rather than with me


I love the book and films! I def wasnt laughing at you, so sorry about that! TBH over 20 yrs nursing and the current situation has put my gallows humor on overdrive anyways!LOL:Shy



3dogs2cats said:


> This is what bothers me, the deaths that are occurring now are not due to the NHS being unable to cope, people are dying due to the virus not lack of medical care. Yes of course the NHS needs to be protected so we don't get to a situation where people do die due to lack of ventilator but people like my mum will always be at risk until a vaccine has been developed.


Its all connected though. Alot of older people with existing health problems who might have been ventilated or given ICU beds in the past now wont be because there arent the resources. The resources are being spent on younger, fitter people who stand a greater chance of recovery.
Sadly this is why the lockdown and social distancing is so important....to give the vulnerable a chance they wont otherwise get.


----------



## kimthecat

The CMO of Scotland Catherine Calderwood is in trouble for traveling to her second home and has been warned by police . Nicola Sturgeon is having a tough time on Q & A trying to defend her. 

Also the England footballer , Kyle Walker told everyone to stay at home hours before two call girls visited him


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> Didn't happen in two weeks though and their approach was to isolate anyone showing symptoms. They forcibly removed people from homes/families. The BIG difference between there and any democratic country was that our esteemed leaders know they'll need to seek re-election at some point. However non political they're managing to appear at the moment it will affect their decisions.


That's pretty much the points I am making.  China can (and did) order half the country into lockdown and enforce it because they are a totalitarian communist dictatorship. Here, we have to give people a chance to comply of their own free will, and can only take further action once it has been demonstrated asking/moderate enforcement isn't enough. Plus we're not going to remove people - well, unless they need medical care.



havoc said:


> So if we go onto a complete lockdown does that mean the 12 week protocol for the vulnerable disappears too?


More likely that the protocol will be extended to everyone (aside from key workers or other essential business needs which can't be done from home), except one member of the family will be allowed to leave the home once or twice a week for food and medicines, plus a few other permissable activities like banking or caring for a dependent, I'd expect.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> More likely that the protocol will be extended to everyone


What! You mean a month of everyone doing it right and it won't all be over. I'm gutted


----------



## Jesthar

I


havoc said:


> What! You mean a month of everyone doing it right and it won't all be over. I'm gutted


I don't believe I ever said that?  I have two doctors in the family, and many more NHS worker friends, plus I'm in a key industry myself. We know better than most that this isn't going away any time soon...


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Its all connected though. Alot of older people with existing health problems who might have been ventilated or given ICU beds in the past now wont be because there arent the resources. The resources are being spent on younger, fitter people who stand a greater chance of recovery


It has been said that if this virus targeted children and young people you could be damn sure their parents and grandparents generations would be doing absolutely everything necessary to protect them.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> I don't believe I ever said that


You didn't.


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> I suppose thats fine in theory but the problem you run into then is everybody would be decided themselves what was an acceptable risk and what wasnt. It would be hard to maintain any kind of rules about social distancing if we all made up our own.


playing devils advocate
had she been out there, on a mat, doing yoga in the sunshine
she wouldve been taking up exactly the same space, and place in the world
yet
she would have been classed as exercising
as long as she was social distancing
and no one wouldve batted an eye



> I love the book and films! I def wasnt laughing at you, so sorry about that! TBH over 20 yrs nursing and the current situation has put my gallows humor on overdrive anyways!LOL:Shy


nursing will do that to you 
matt andi found out how dark our humour can be, when he was dxd with testicular cancer on the very day i was given my 1st year all clear results
first words out of his mouth
"well aint that a kick in the balls"
and his little brother referred to him as
"chemo sabe"
throughout


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> she would have been classed as exercising
> as long as she was social distancing
> and no one wouldve batted an eye


I think they would have, the reason why exercise and walking, running, cycling was emphasised and this is what you can do is because you are not stationary. The idea is you can move away from people who approach you and vice versa. You can hardly practise social distancing whilst in middle of downward dog can you?


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> playing devils advocate
> had she been out there, on a mat, doing yoga in the sunshine
> she wouldve been taking up exactly the same space, and place in the world
> yet
> she would have been classed as exercising
> as long as she was social distancing
> and no one wouldve batted an eye


I think that's fair. Question is, was she doing harm and she wasn't. That doesn't matter to people though when circumstances give them the opportunity to have go at others. It's like the council which decided a shop couldn't sell Easter eggs, there are always those who like the idea of everything being as miserable as possible. If my 'essentials' to get through this are chocolate and champagne why should anyone else care. If it's something else makes it bearable for you that has nothing to do with me.


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> You didn't.


Then, forgive, me, but I don't understand your point?


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> Then, forgive, me, but I don't understand your point


It was put forward as the solution by somebody else.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> I think that's fair. Question is, was she doing harm and she wasn't. That doesn't matter to people though when circumstances give them the opportunity to have go at others.
> 
> It's like the council which decided a shop couldn't sell Easter eggs, there are always those who like the idea of everything being as miserable as possible. If my 'essentials' to get through this are chocolate and champagne why should anyone else care. If it's something else makes it bearable for you that has nothing to do with me.


To the first point my worry is not the person who can work out how to socially isolate themselves independently...its the idiots who say 'well, so and so is out so it must be ok for me and my mates to go to a field and all have a BBQ!'. Unfortunately you have to cater to the stupidest section of the population and it means those with common sense get to suffer too!

As to the second...chocolate is always essential surely?? You can take my freedom but never take my choc and nut bar!!:Hilarious


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> I think they would have, the reason why exercise and walking, running, cycling was emphasised and this is what you can do is because you are not stationary. The idea is you can move away from people who approach you and vice versa. You can hardly practise social distancing whilst in middle of downward dog can you?


but, apart from being busybodies, they had no reason to approach her
they had a responsibility to stay away from her
just as much as she did them

Edit to say
@catz4m8z summed it up completely in her first sentence~
thinking that everyone else is in the shallow end of the intelligence pool
is obviously the way to go


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> but, apart from being busybodies, they had no reason to approach her
> they had a responsibility to stay away from her
> just as much as she did them


Quite right - they were in the wrong just as much.


catz4m8z said:


> To the first point my worry is not the person who can work out how to socially isolate themselves independently...its the idiots who say 'well, so and so is out so it must be ok for me and my mates to go to a field and all have a BBQ!'.


But then it's that group of mates should be stopped and there are powers to do so. Frankly sunbathing is not strictly exercising so it is right on the edge but the busybodies should have reported her if they felt that strongly just as they would any other reportable incident. I've joined - and left our village FB group all within 48 hours because it's just a bunch of nasty minded people who are out to interpret the rules their way - but only for everyone else, not them.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> Frankly sunbathing is not strictly exercising


I think its more to do with the risk of infection from people touching stuff, esp in parks and busy areas. You can spread and pick up germs just by touching the same doorhandle, railing, etc. At least if you are exercising (and in motion) there is less chance you will be putting your grubby mitts all over everything!

I must be a weirdo though. I hate sunny weather so whilst the dogs are enjoying the garden Im sat indoors grumbling!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

It's interesting, at least to me, that a woman was convicted under the new powers and that conviction has subsequently been quashed (within days). She was 'between platforms' at a station and British Transport Police decided they'd use the new legislation to do her. They were wrong but you can imagine their glee at thinking they'd be the first to get one through the courts. It sums up beautifully a mindset which can't wait to exercise a power which doesn't exist. She was alone so not in a group of more than two and they had no reason to suppose she was a danger to others.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> but, apart from being busybodies, they had no reason to approach her
> they had a responsibility to stay away from her
> just as much as she did them
> 
> Edit to say
> @catz4m8z summed it up completely in her first sentence~
> thinking that everyone else is in the shallow end of the intelligence pool
> is obviously the way to go


This has been talked about pages and pages back though.. Once one person starts doing something people follow or think it's OK to copy. It was discussed before lockdown which is why lockdown happened because everyone had the idea to bugger off to the countryside, and seaside. Of course the national Trust must take some sort of responsibility but people naturally follow others it's nothing new.. Psychologists have known about it for years.

No busy bodies shouldn't have approached and argued with a person sunbathing but in all honesty, stay inside means just that.

It's only in the past few days that they are now saying aerolisation of the spread of this virus matters, we are learning new things all the time. Before this wasn't as much as a risk per se, with even social distancing. However aerolisation doesn't just mean a cough, sneeze spreads the virus it can be passed in the air from talking, worse in buildings but can remain. Initially this was thought not to be a worry, now it is. A new virus, you can't learn everything in 5 months so as @Magyarmum has been say you act like everyone is infected and do what's asked. Plus take it seriously. Yes you can't change what others do, but you need to be mindful what others do.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> However aerolisation doesn't just mean a cough, sneeze spreads the virus it can be passed in the air from talking, worse in buildings but can remain. Initially this was thought not to be a worry, now it is. A new virus, you can't learn everything in 5 months so as @Magyarmum has been say you act like everyone is infected and do what's asked. Plus take it seriously. Yes you can't change what others do, but you need to be mindful what others do.


Mindful - yes. Holier than thou - no.


----------



## Siskin

Apparently in Mauritius the lockdown is ultra severe. Throughout the week only people with a surname beginning with certain letters are allowed to go shopping and only use one bag to buy essentials


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Throughout the week only people with a surname beginning with certain letters are allowed to go shopping and only use one bag to buy essentials


Strange as it may seem I'd be happy with that. Fair for everyone and doesn't allow the self important to lord it over others.


----------



## havoc

I saw a wonderful idea from a shop in Denmark to stop stockpiling/panic buying. It was a sort of reverse 3 for 2 offer - buy one or two the price was (eg) 99p, buy more and the price was £50 each.


----------



## Sairy

havoc said:


> Strange as it may seem I'd be happy with that. Fair for everyone and doesn't allow the self important to lord it over others.


I agree to a point, but then what about those with more mouths to feed (e.g. children)?


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Apparently in Mauritius the lockdown is ultra severe. Throughout the week only people with a surname beginning with certain letters are allowed to go shopping and only use one bag to buy essentials


To be fair, it's not surprising in Mauritius as it's quite scary what could happen with the pandemic if they don't take severe measures. They haven't got the resources


----------



## DogLover1981

A playground here was officially closed due to COVID-19 with a couple of signs warning about it but I could see that kids were still playing at it. They need to make a cheap temporary fence around it I guess because people can't read signs. O.O


----------



## purringcats

I can see the PM implementing tougher rules this week and telling us that no one will be allowed to got out and have a walk, run or ride a bike (exercise). A minority of people are not sticking to the current rules and are flouting them spoiling things for those that are sticking to the rules.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> I think its more to do with the risk of infection from people touching stuff, esp in parks and busy areas. You can spread and pick up germs just by touching the same doorhandle, railing, etc. At least if you are exercising (and in motion) there is less chance you will be putting your grubby mitts all over everything!
> 
> I must be a weirdo though. I hate sunny weather so whilst the dogs are enjoying the garden Im sat indoors grumbling!LOL:Hilarious


Exactly! I went out today to get petrol, money from the ATM and then to do a bit of OAP only time shopping.

I took a mask and disposable latex gloves to wear, hand sanitiser and alcohol wipes to clean the steering wheel etc. And although I took my handbag, not wanting to risk any contamination I kept my money and credit card in a purse which I put in my anorak pocket. I made sure I could remove the clothes I wore without touching my face or skin before I went into my house when I got back, and left a bucket of soapy water outside to wash my door keys, handles and any part of the car I'd touched before I let the dogs out of the back of the car. The soapy water was later used to wipe down the groceries I'd bought.

First stop the petrol station where there were 3 people wearing no protection whatsoever, buying sweets in the shop. Now obviously I have no idea who'd used the petrol pump before me and whether they were carriers of the virus, but nevertheless I cleaned my gloves with sanitiser before I got into the car. Saw no one at the ATM, but having pressed buttons on the machine, sanitised my gloves again, my credit card I cleaned at home..

Only one other person in the supermarket apart from the staff, not all of whom were wearing gloves and masks. And once more had no idea who'd touched or coughed on what! When I'd finished shopping and loaded everything into the car, and taken the trolley back I carefully took off the gloves and mask and put them in a clean plastic back to go into the waste bin when I got home. I sanitised my hand and cleaned the steering wheel, gear stick and brake with a wipe and drove home.

Despite being careful to protect myself .... and others .... and there being only 7 reported cases in my region only time will tell whether or not I've contracted the "dreaded lurgy" Perhaps I'm being OTT but having lived for so many years in Africa,through HIV, Cholera and Dysentery epidemics and inplaces where Dengue Fever an Malaria are endemic I've learnt it's better to be extra safe than very very sorry.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=513385062678434


----------



## MollySmith

Queen on telly..... of course Twitter brings up (Prince) Andrew but since she’s not entirely responsible for the behaviour of a grown man - I thought it was measured and very much focused on short term gain for long term reward. I was disappointed she didn’t threaten to behead anyone sunbathing or picnicking.


----------



## mrs phas

im a huge royalist
but
what does she know about what we are all going through
this was just wheeling queenie out
to spout some utter nonsense, scripted by BJs henchmen
on behalf if BJ himself
i honestly thought, at her age, and length of reign,
with the amount of advisors she has
she was a little more savvy than that

as i say, love the royal family
think theyre a huge positive to the uk, and, as a whole, worth every penny they recieve
but this was just soundbites, nothing more


----------



## Lurcherlad

She’s damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t


----------



## Sairy

mrs phas said:


> im a huge royalist
> but
> what does she know about what we are all going through
> this was just wheeling queenie out
> to spout some utter nonsense, scripted by BJs henchmen
> on behalf if BJ himself
> i honestly thought, at her age, and length of reign,
> with the amount of advisors she has
> she was a little more savvy than that
> 
> as i say, love the royal family
> think theyre a huge positive to the uk, and, as a whole, worth every penny they recieve
> but this was just soundbites, nothing more


I enjoyed her speech, made me feel quite emotional. I doubt it is easy for her either. She will be at risk of contracting the virus, same as the rest of us, and is presumably not able to see members of her family either.


----------



## Charity

She's just as involved as the rest of us, her son has had the virus which must have been a worry and who knows who else in her household. She wrote a lot of the speech herself, she has always cared about the people. I don't think its fair to criticise her because of who she is and what she has.


----------



## Cully

Remember the reaction she got from us (her subjects) when she stayed at Balmoral after Diana died?She became Britain's most hated then and was in danger of losing support for the Royal Family. It was only after Tony Blair's repeated insistence for her to return to London that her popularity recovered.
I suspect this broadcast was made in part to prevent such a thing happening again. The Royals would be nothing without loyal subjects.
Having said that, I think her words were from the heart.


----------



## Dave S

I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


----------



## Charity

Dave S said:


> I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


Agree with that, got sick of hearing snippets beforehand.


----------



## mrs phas

Charity said:


> She's just as involved as the rest of us, her son has had the virus which must have been a worry and who knows who else in her household. She wrote a lot of the speech herself, she has always cared about the people. I don't think its fair to criticise her because of who she is and what she has.


I didnt
i said she knows nothing about real world sufferring
which she doesnt
I love her to bits and will be devestated when she finally passes


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


me too
maybe thats why i found it so flat and full of soundbites
like movie trailers, where its full of good bits
then you find out, when you go to see it
they were the *only* good bits
bit like the christmas speeches these days


----------



## mrs phas

BBC- PM Johnson admitted to hospital over virus symptoms
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125


----------



## Charity

I don't think most of us know about real world suffering, there are people in Third World countries who will get little or no help when this virus hits them and other wars and atrocities are still going on, we've just stopped hearing about them.


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> BBC- PM Johnson admitted to hospital over virus symptoms
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125


When I saw him outside clapping on Thursday I thought then that he looked really rough compared to Matt Hancock, who looks very well even though he's lost some weight. Poor BoJo, I really wish him well.


----------



## mrs phas

Charity said:


> I don't think most of us know about real world suffering, there are people in Third World countries who will get little or no help when this virus hits them and other wars and atrocities are still going on, we've just stopped hearing about them.


I was watching something either yesterday or today (tbh all the days are beginning to merge) where they were talking to the villagers in Myanmar
They were saying they were told not to travel and not go near neighbours or other villages
But
They had no idea why
I also worry about third world countries and those who are still in war zones or refugee camps
Whose counting those?
Anyone?
Does anyone even care (not us, the big chief head honchos) how many die
Or are they just one less statistic to tick off the list


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sad to hear about Boris, he has looked very rough the last few days and soldiered on. Praying for a full recovery.
I also found Queen Elizabeth's broadcast very moving and felt itwas from the heart. There were tears in my eyes as she finished.


----------



## purringcats

Poor Boris. Hope he manages to get on top of the virus with the help of the hospital? His pregnant girl friend Carrie Symonds has also tested positive in the last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/04/carrie-symonds-recovering-from-coronavirus


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> I was watching something either yesterday or today (tbh all the days are beginning to merge) where they were talking to the villagers in Myanmar
> They were saying they were told not to travel and not go near neighbours or other villages
> But
> They had no idea why
> I also worry about third world countries and those who are still in war zones or refugee camps
> Whose counting those?
> Anyone?
> Does anyone even care (not us, the big chief head honchos) how many die
> Or are they just one less statistic to tick off the list


There's figures like anywhere not enough, there's agebcues worried, there's information out there if you are willing to look. Aid has been sent from places such as the UK for certain places but its been overshadowed in the news because of the headlines being more about here, and developed country.
The Who releases information daily on everywhere.


----------



## willa

I loved watching the Queen,no harm done by her.

Hope Boris Johnson recovers fast, we need him !


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> I loved watching the Queen,no harm done by her.
> 
> Hope Boris Johnson recovers fast, we need him !


We do don't we. Whether you like him or not he took charge when it was needed and has done his best in a horrible situation. I wish him well


----------



## DogLover1981

Apparently tigers and lions had a cough and tested positive for COVID-19 at the Bronx zoo in New York City. O.O

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...zoo-tiger-tests-positive-covid-19/2952027001/


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> I loved watching the Queen,no harm done by her.
> 
> Hope Boris Johnson recovers fast, we need him !


I thought the Queen spoke very well, but then she always knows just the right thing to say.

I wouldn't say we needed BJ, I don't like the man, but I wouldn't wish this on him, hope he recovers soon.


----------



## Happy Paws2

This could be a worry.....I know this virus came from animals, now it's jumps back.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52177586


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


and ironically didn't broadcast it live!


----------



## MissSpitzMum

Siskin said:


> We do don't we. Whether you like him or not he took charge when it was needed and has done his best in a horrible situation. I wish him well


Let's not forget he went against the grain for far too long and was happy to let hundreds of thousands die for an idea of 'herd immunity' on a novel virus, after he bragged about shaking corona patient's hands to sell it. He put the economy over lives.

I don't wish him ill, but I wouldn't say he has done his best or that we actually need him.


----------



## MollySmith

Copied from Faceache this morning. 
_
*****
As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.

From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it's a secret, but he's posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it's all a load of bollocks and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn't feel sick and why the **** is 'spoons shut cos his granddad didn't fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if pornhub premium is now free for a week.

I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute bastards. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter bastards (did I mention that?) because you can do almost **** all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That's the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it's about medicine and that's what's scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a ****ing nightmare.

The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it's living it's best life #livelaughcough. You can't ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal ********. You have to actually do what you're being told to do. YOU.

YOU. You can stop it. Do what you're told. Stay the **** inside. Stop thinking you're an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you're a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you've been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn't your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It's your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.

The virus does not give a shit about you. You're just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a shit about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don't let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bullshit in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it's about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you're being asked to do.

Stay inside, protect the NHS, save lives.

Addendum:
Hello everyone, thank you for taking the time to read my ramble and to share it and help me convince my parents that all that money spent on the Masters degree was of some benefit to mankind but I'm just a girl who has a little experience I wanted to share.

I've not even told you about the time I got the lab induced yeast infection up my nose, the time I sedated myself with chloroform during an exam, or had an entire, fully operational water treatment plant stolen over night, but, suffice to say I have a little window into this mad world we're all stuck in together now. 
I am not your government. I am not your health department. I am not the girl who decides on your country's global treatment programme. I'm not Scully, or indeed, Mulder.

So please don't come at me bro, I'm not interested in arguing with you because you've read how eating 4 oranges a day will give you a shield of protection like you've just had a bowl of 1970s readybrek, or how you have a file of secret evidence as to why this has been made up by the Chinese/Trump/ phone companies or your dad. I'm just here to say STAY THE **** INSIDE.

Now, Judge Judy is on and I've just treated myself to a Freddo Frog, so have fun y'all and STAY THE **** INSIDE. _


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> This could be a worry.....I know this virus came from animals, now it's jumps back.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52177586


it worries me that some idiots might start abandoning their cats


----------



## Psygon

MollySmith said:


> it worries me that some idiots might start abandoning their cats


I think some people already have. I've seen a couple of rescues posting on Facebook trying to reassure people.


----------



## lullabydream

DogLover1981 said:


> Apparently tigers and lions had a cough and tested positive for COVID-19 at the Bronx zoo in New York City. O.O
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...zoo-tiger-tests-positive-covid-19/2952027001/


I would personally want to know how the the tigers were tested to be any sort of news, especially whilst being cared for those that had the virus who could be shedding it.

There has also been a story of a cat with Covid-19 but the story was a bit wishy washy again.


----------



## MilleD

Dave S said:


> I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


I didn't bother watch because of exactly this.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I would personally want to know how the the tigers were tested to be any sort of news, especially whilst being cared for those that had the virus who could be shedding it.
> 
> There has also been a story of a cat with Covid-19 but the story was a bit wishy washy again.


It just sounds like more press click bait to be honest. How is it helpful to report these things?


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Copied from Faceache this morning.
> _
> *****
> As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.
> 
> From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it's a secret, but he's posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it's all a load of bollocks and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn't feel sick and why the **** is 'spoons shut cos his granddad didn't fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if pornhub premium is now free for a week.
> 
> I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute bastards. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter bastards (did I mention that?) because you can do almost **** all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That's the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it's about medicine and that's what's scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a ******* nightmare.
> 
> The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it's living it's best life #livelaughcough. You can't ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal ********. You have to actually do what you're being told to do. YOU.
> 
> YOU. You can stop it. Do what you're told. Stay the **** inside. Stop thinking you're an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you're a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you've been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn't your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It's your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.
> 
> The virus does not give a shit about you. You're just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a shit about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don't let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bullshit in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it's about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you're being asked to do.
> 
> Stay inside, protect the NHS, save lives.
> 
> Addendum:
> Hello everyone, thank you for taking the time to read my ramble and to share it and help me convince my parents that all that money spent on the Masters degree was of some benefit to mankind but I'm just a girl who has a little experience I wanted to share.
> 
> I've not even told you about the time I got the lab induced yeast infection up my nose, the time I sedated myself with chloroform during an exam, or had an entire, fully operational water treatment plant stolen over night, but, suffice to say I have a little window into this mad world we're all stuck in together now.
> I am not your government. I am not your health department. I am not the girl who decides on your country's global treatment programme. I'm not Scully, or indeed, Mulder.
> 
> So please don't come at me bro, I'm not interested in arguing with you because you've read how eating 4 oranges a day will give you a shield of protection like you've just had a bowl of 1970s readybrek, or how you have a file of secret evidence as to why this has been made up by the Chinese/Trump/ phone companies or your dad. I'm just here to say STAY THE **** INSIDE.
> 
> Now, Judge Judy is on and I've just treated myself to a Freddo Frog, so have fun y'all and STAY THE **** INSIDE. _


Saw this yesterday. Thought it was a really good piece. And the person that wrote it appears to have really wrote it if you look at the comments.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks


I'll never forgive you. Not got past that first line yet and I've spilt half a cup of coffee over my desk :Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> I just think it a shame that the BBC told us all over the last few days what she was going to say. Would have been nicer if we did not know.


Not just the BBC, ITV and Sky were just as bad. 
On ITV just before her speech came on, they were still telling us what was going to be in it.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I'll never forgive you. Not got past that first line yet and I've spilt half a cup of coffee over my desk :Hilarious


Good isn't it?


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Saw this yesterday. Thought it was a really good piece. And the person that wrote it appears to have really wrote it if you look at the comments.


yes, I am so cautious about posting anything at the moment as there's a lot of bollocks around. Mindful of my comment numerous pages back about checking the source! Don't be a Chantelle etc!



havoc said:


> I'll never forgive you. Not got past that first line yet and I've spilt half a cup of coffee over my desk :Hilarious


You are very fortunate coffee wasn't a victim of panic buying... or bath bombs :Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> yes, I am so cautious about posting anything at the moment as there's a lot of bollocks around. Mindful of my comment numerous pages back about checking the source! Don't be a Chantelle etc!


Don't be a Chantelle! Could become a catchphrase. Unless you are actually Chantelle, if so I apologise


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Don't be a Chantelle! Could become a catchphrase. Unless you are actually Chantelle, if so I apologise


Haha! I think it could be a great catchphrase... said safely in the knowledge that neither of us are called that :Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

Best Stay At Home poster I've seen so far! Don't entertain Barry okay?!


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Best Stay At Home poster I've seen so far! Don't entertain Barry okay?!
> 
> View attachment 435741




I actually feel quite sorry for the real Barry though. And all the other wildlife that relies on things us scutter humans drop.

As soon as Greggs closed, I wondered about all the pigeons in our Market Square. But I know a fairly bonkers lovely lady who no doubt is using her daily constitutional to go and feed them.

I'm doing my best for them in my garden, but only get Jackdaws, Wood pigeon, Magpies and Starlings. Better than nothing I guess.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Remember the reaction she got from us (her subjects) when she stayed at Balmoral after Diana died?She became Britain's most hated then and was in danger of losing support for the Royal Family. It was only after Tony Blair's repeated insistence for her to return to London that her popularity recovered.


The more I see repeats of Diana's death the more I think we treated the royal family and the Queen very badly, they had two young boys who had just lost their Mother to worry about, yes it could have been handled better but with the press and the news channels stirring it up we were very cruel to her.


----------



## MilleD




----------



## Cully

Sorry, I need a rant. The council gardener was mowing the grass this morning when a stone flew up and shattered my front window.








After everything else that's going on I can really do without this.
Someone from the council is coming out today to board it up for me. But get this.....they can't replace it as there are no glaziers making glass!!!!! So I'm going to have to live with a huge board for a window until the glaziers are allowed to get back to work which could be after this crisis is over. I've only got this window and the one in the kitchen. I'm claustrobhobic so I know i'm not going to cope well with this.
Why were the gardeners working? Surely gardening isn't essential work at the moment. 
This is only a tiny one room studio flat and I'm really scared about letting anyone in as there's no way I can stay 2m away. It's freaking me out. I'm going to have to scrub everything once he's gone and I'm just not up to it.
I thought I'd held it together up till now too.


----------



## Boxer123

Cully said:


> Sorry, I need a rant. The council gardener was mowing the grass this morning when a stone flew up and shattered my front window.
> View attachment 435750
> 
> After everything else that's going on I can really do without this.
> Someone from the council is coming out today to board it up for me. But get this.....they can't replace it as there are no glaziers making glass!!!!! So I'm going to have to live with a huge board for a window until the glaziers are allowed to get back to work which could be after this crisis is over. I've only got this window and the one in the kitchen. I'm claustrobhobic so I know i'm not going to cope well with this.
> Why were the gardeners working? Surely gardening isn't essential work at the moment.
> This is only a tiny one room studio flat and I'm really scared about letting anyone in as there's no way I can stay 2m away. It's freaking me out. I'm going to have to scrub everything once he's gone and I'm just not up to it.
> I thought I'd held it together up till now too.


What a nightmare that's so frustrating. A stupid question can they not board up from the outside? I hope your ok x


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Sorry, I need a rant. The council gardener was mowing the grass this morning when a stone flew up and shattered my front window.
> View attachment 435750
> 
> After everything else that's going on I can really do without this.
> Someone from the council is coming out today to board it up for me. But get this.....they can't replace it as there are no glaziers making glass!!!!! So I'm going to have to live with a huge board for a window until the glaziers are allowed to get back to work which could be after this crisis is over. I've only got this window and the one in the kitchen. I'm claustrobhobic so I know i'm not going to cope well with this.
> Why were the gardeners working? Surely gardening isn't essential work at the moment.
> This is only a tiny one room studio flat and I'm really scared about letting anyone in as there's no way I can stay 2m away. It's freaking me out. I'm going to have to scrub everything once he's gone and I'm just not up to it.
> I thought I'd held it together up till now too.


Sorry you are going through this. It must be horrible if you aren't getting much light in anyway.

Hopefully they can sort if for you and you d can social distance ok. Perhaps move outside when they come in? Will you still be able to see them if you do that?


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> What a nightmare that's so frustrating. A stupid question can they not board up from the outside? I hope your ok x


Don't they have to remove the glass and replace with board? It's a hazard otherwise?


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> Don't they have to remove the glass and replace with board? It's a hazard otherwise?


No idea they probably do but worth an ask.


----------



## Cully

@Boxer123 , thanks. i expect they will board it up from outside (hope so) but they will still need to knock the glass out from inside so it falls into the garden. It's the cramped living area in here which is worrying me at the moment.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Sorry you are going through this. It must be horrible if you aren't getting much light in anyway.
> 
> Hopefully they can sort if for you and you d can social distance ok. Perhaps move outside when they come in? Will you still be able to see them if you do that?


I expect it may involve some kind of avoidance dance between us.


----------



## Cully

Glad no-one's mentioned my smiley face poster on the window. Bit ironic now isn't it???:Bag


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> Sorry, I need a rant. The council gardener was mowing the grass this morning when a stone flew up and shattered my front window.
> View attachment 435750
> 
> After everything else that's going on I can really do without this.
> Someone from the council is coming out today to board it up for me. But get this.....they can't replace it as there are no glaziers making glass!!!!! So I'm going to have to live with a huge board for a window until the glaziers are allowed to get back to work which could be after this crisis is over. I've only got this window and the one in the kitchen. I'm claustrobhobic so I know i'm not going to cope well with this.
> Why were the gardeners working? Surely gardening isn't essential work at the moment.
> This is only a tiny one room studio flat and I'm really scared about letting anyone in as there's no way I can stay 2m away. It's freaking me out. I'm going to have to scrub everything once he's gone and I'm just not up to it.
> I thought I'd held it together up till now too.


Oh my gosh how terrible! I wonder if plexiglass could be used instead of wood?


----------



## Cully

lorilu said:


> Oh my gosh how terrible! I wonder if plexiglass could be used instead of wood?


I intend to ask when they come if, considering how long I will need to wait for glass, they could fit some kind of see through material. Fingers crossed I guess.
I'm worried about Misty too as she spends hours in the window. I just wish they'd hurry up and get here.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> I intend to ask when they come if, considering how long I will need to wait for glass, they could fit some kind of see through material. Fingers crossed I guess.
> I'm worried about Misty too as she spends hours in the window. I just wish they'd hurry up and get here.


Speak to someone senior at the Council. The workers just do as they're told and won't stray from their instructions ime.

Maybe ring round some glaziers yourself too as chances are the Council will take the easy option, which will usually be the least suitable for you - hence the board


----------



## Lurcherlad

Found this:

They have clarified that for tradespeople working in people's homes:

They can carry out work as long as they're well and have no symptoms, and can stand 2 metres apart from anyone else in the house. They shouldn't carry out work in any households that are self-isolating or if an individual is classed as vulnerable and being protected, unless the work is to sort a problem which is a direct risk to the safety of the household, like emergency plumbing or repairs, and where they're willing to do so.

*2. Work carried out in people's homes*
Work carried out in people's homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance, can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms.

Again, it will be important to ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a two-metre distance from any household occupants, are followed to ensure everyone's safety.

No work should be carried out in any household which is isolating or where an individual is being shielded, unless it is to remedy a direct risk to the safety of the household, such as emergency plumbing or repairs, and where the tradesperson is willing to do so. In such cases, Public Health England can provide advice to tradespeople and households.

No work should be carried out by a tradesperson who has coronavirus symptoms, however mild.

For more information, see guidance published 23 March 2020.

I see no reason why a glazier can't continue to reglaze a window while adhering to guidelines.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If you have household insurance, ring them up too?


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Found this:
> 
> They have clarified that for tradespeople working in people's homes:
> 
> They can carry out work as long as they're well and have no symptoms, and can stand 2 metres apart from anyone else in the house. They shouldn't carry out work in any households that are self-isolating or if an individual is classed as vulnerable and being protected, unless the work is to sort a problem which is a direct risk to the safety of the household, like emergency plumbing or repairs, and where they're willing to do so.
> 
> *2. Work carried out in people's homes*
> Work carried out in people's homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance, can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms.
> 
> Again, it will be important to ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a two-metre distance from any household occupants, are followed to ensure everyone's safety.
> 
> No work should be carried out in any household which is isolating or where an individual is being shielded, unless it is to remedy a direct risk to the safety of the household, such as emergency plumbing or repairs, and where the tradesperson is willing to do so. In such cases, Public Health England can provide advice to tradespeople and households.
> 
> No work should be carried out by a tradesperson who has coronavirus symptoms, however mild.
> 
> For more information, see guidance published 23 March 2020.
> 
> I see no reason why a glazier can't continue to reglaze a window while adhering to guidelines.


I think it's more that they cannot obtain glass at the moment, that's according to the lady who books the repairs.
And I don't have buildings or home contents insurance as it's council property.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> I think it's more that they cannot obtain glass at the moment, that's according to the lady who books the repairs.
> And I don't have buildings or home contents insurance as it's council property.


I wouldn't take their word for it though - I'd still ring round glaziers to see if they can provide glass.

As I say, council will just be "computer says no"


----------



## mrs phas

This makes a very interesting read
From the viewpoint of a severely disabled person

BBC News - Coronavirus: 'I know my life will not be saved in this pandemic'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-52149219


----------



## Cully

Well the repair man came to sort my shattered window out. No mask, no gloves, no protective gear at all. I politely explained that although I wasn't ill I would keep a respectful distance. He just shrugged. He wasn't of the same mind though, as he made no effort to keep any distance between us and stood right behind me as I had to open the back door to let him into the garden.
He said I could leave the shattered glass in place as it would be safe enough. I disagreed, especially given that I wouldn't get new glass until at least after the lockdown is lifted. So I've now got a wooden board in place. I honestly don't think he wanted the bother of fitting it and that's why he said the glass would be ok. Glad I insisted on the board though as I just wouldn't have felt safe, especially if someone slammed a door on the same wall, or we had a storm. And I would worry about Misty lying on the window sill.
As he left, and keeping my distance, I asked if he was bothered about the virus and using no protection. "Nah not really". I think he was out of earshot by the time I told him he was a selfish w*****!!!!!!


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I wouldn't take their word for it though - I'd still ring round glaziers to see if they can provide glass.
> 
> As I say, council will just be "computer says no"


In fairness, councils are run off their feet. My own LA is running an initiative where we can volunteer to be retrained and do care work, or driving work etc.

So it's not like they aren't trying. This is unprecedented.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> Well the repair man came to sort my shattered window out. No mask, no gloves, no protective gear at all. I politely explained that although I wasn't ill I would keep a respectful distance. He just shrugged. He wasn't of the same mind though, as he made no effort to keep any distance between us and stood right behind me as I had to open the back door to let him into the garden.
> He said I could leave the shattered glass in place as it would be safe enough. I disagreed, especially given that I wouldn't get new glass until at least after the lockdown is lifted. So I've now got a wooden board in place. I honestly don't think he wanted the bother of fitting it and that's why he said the glass would be ok. Glad I insisted on the board though as I just wouldn't have felt safe, especially if someone slammed a door on the same wall, or we had a storm. And I would worry about Misty lying on the window sill.
> As he left, and keeping my distance, I asked if he was bothered about the virus and using no protection. "Nah not really". I think he was out of earshot by the time I told him he was a selfish w*****!!!!!!


That's not good - no doubt they are busy, but he should at least be following the social distancing rules as much as possible, especially as you asked him to keep his distance and were ignored. Maybe ask the council if they are willing to pay for a deep clean of your property due to the lack of precautions taken by their tradesman when you inform them?


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> That's not good - no doubt they are busy, but he should at least be following the social distancing rules as much as possible, especially as you asked him to keep his distance and were ignored. Maybe ask the council if they are willing to pay for a deep clean of your property due to the lack of precautions taken by their tradesman when you inform them?


What and let more strangers in? No thanks. I've sprayed everything with disinfectant now (except the cat) and left the windows wide open.


----------



## mrs phas

This is so daft it made me laugh out loud
Good for kids (and, in truth, most adults)

https://www.facebook.com/638698402824567/posts/3261350493892665/


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> This is so daft it made me laugh out loud
> Good for kids (and, in truth, most adults)
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/638698402824567/posts/3261350493892665/


Don't click unless you like earworms!!!



ETA, the app isn't free either.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> In fairness, councils are run off their feet. My own LA is running an initiative where we can volunteer to be retrained and do care work, or driving work etc.
> 
> So it's not like they aren't trying. This is unprecedented.


I didn't say they weren't/aren't just that even in normal times I know how they roll from experience 

Cully is stressed about the situation so I was just trying to suggest how she might achieve a more suitable solution.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Don't click unless you like earworms!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ETA, the app isn't free either.


you clicked didnt you :Joyful

dont worry people i swear its nothing nefarious~
fb page
My Talking Pet
and a beautiful singing sphynx


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> you clicked didnt you :Joyful
> 
> dont worry people i swear its nothing nefarious~
> fb page
> My Talking Pet
> and a beautiful singing sphynx


You're naughty! I didn't click, I've seen it before and once you listen you apparently (see!) can't get it out of your head


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Several European countries hint at lightening of coronavirus lockdowns as death rates drop

"European countries badly hit by coronavirus are preparing to ease their lockdowns as death rates began to decline amid hopes that the crisis may have peaked.

Over the weekend and on Monday, Italy reported its lowest death toll in two weeks, Spanish fatalities dropped for a fourth straight day and France saw its fewest deaths in a week, as Austria announced it would begin to ease its lockdown from next Tuesday".


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> What a nightmare that's so frustrating. A stupid question can they not board up from the outside? I hope your ok x


I thought they always did board up from the outside.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> In fairness, councils are run off their feet. My own LA is running an initiative where we can volunteer to be retrained and do care work, or driving work etc.
> 
> So it's not like they aren't trying. This is unprecedented.


Strangely here they are still doing maintenance work , My friend had a letter today from the council to say scaffolders will be coming to put up scaffolding so guttering can be replaced in two weeks time . It needs to be done but not urgent.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Sorry, I need a rant. The council gardener was mowing the grass this morning when a stone flew up and shattered my front window.
> View attachment 435750
> 
> After everything else that's going on I can really do without this.
> Someone from the council is coming out today to board it up for me. But get this.....they can't replace it as there are no glaziers making glass!!!!! So I'm going to have to live with a huge board for a window until the glaziers are allowed to get back to work which could be after this crisis is over. I've only got this window and the one in the kitchen. I'm claustrobhobic so I know i'm not going to cope well with this.
> Why were the gardeners working? Surely gardening isn't essential work at the moment.
> This is only a tiny one room studio flat and I'm really scared about letting anyone in as there's no way I can stay 2m away. It's freaking me out. I'm going to have to scrub everything once he's gone and I'm just not up to it.
> I thought I'd held it together up till now too.


I'd phone your MP or Local Councilor I'm such there is a way round it.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Strangely here they are still doing maintenance work , My friend had a letter today from the council to say scaffolders will be coming to put up scaffolding so guttering can be replaced in two weeks time . It needs to be done but not urgent.


I'm a landlord and we have been told we still have to maintain health and safety standards and to maintain the property itself in good order. So it's probably the same for councils. As long as they aren't mingling with people, they can do their work. Same as the advice given to the trades.

I agree that if that's how the idiot acted that came out to see @Cully , they need reporting.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I didn't say they weren't/aren't just that even in normal times I know how they roll from experience
> 
> Cully is stressed about the situation so I was just trying to suggest how she might achieve a more suitable solution.


Yes, management can be awkward, but believe me, the people on the ground usually do their best.

I would suggest the best thing to do would be to get the repair organised herself, but sometimes that isn't possible.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Not sure if they do any good but it will make me feel better about going out to do the shopping, we ordered some face masks and they came this morning. 
I was talking to my next door neighbour the other day who is a council carer, she said they has only been given 4 masks to use if she feels the need to use one, so I've split the packet and given her some of mine.


----------



## havoc

Was thinking this morning how wonderful it will be when we go back to normal and then got a sort of reality check. How long do you think it will be before we don't regard everyone who comes close with deep suspicion? For me it will be the first time I'm in a crowd at a live music gig, it's the only time I'm happy in a crowd anyway and do a lot to avoid crowded places other than that. Supermarkets without restricted numbers, crowded streets, public transport - can't imagine ever being comfortable again.


----------



## Cully

The window is now boarded so although not ideal, it is giving me much needed breathing space.
I realise everyone is stretched at the moment, so I'd be content with a promise of the glass being replaced (preferably by a glazier who acknowledges the need for social distancing) as soon as is reasonably possible.
The manager here is aware of my situation and has said she will try to put a bit of pressure on re the glass.
Knowing I have people to share my worries with is very reassuring, so thanks folks.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not sure if they do any good but it will make me feel better about going out to do the shopping, we ordered some face masks and they came this morning.
> I was talking to my next door neighbour the other day who is a council carer, she said they has only been given 4 masks to use if she feels the need to use one, so I've split the packet and given her some of mine.


You also need to wear disposable medical examination gloves when you go shopping in order to prevent cross contamination.


----------



## Sairy

Can anyone tell me if there is a reason why the death rates are lower at weekends? They mentioned it on the news that the last two weekends the death toll has been lower and I was wondering if there was a reason for it.


----------



## MilleD

Sairy said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a reason why the death rates are lower at weekends? They mentioned it on the news that the last two weekends the death toll has been lower and I was wondering if there was a reason for it.


It's nothing to do with the coroner being available to report it is it?


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Was thinking this morning how wonderful it will be when we go back to normal and then got a sort of reality check. How long do you think it will be before we don't regard everyone who comes close with deep suspicion? For me it will be the first time I'm in a crowd at a live music gig, it's the only time I'm happy in a crowd anyway and do a lot to avoid crowded places other than that. Supermarkets without restricted numbers, crowded streets, public transport - can't imagine ever being comfortable again.


I think I'm the same. I'm booked to see the Killers in June, but I'm pretty sure that won't go ahead so we will see.

I think the 'trickle feed' thing they are going to have to implement when we emerge blinking into the sunlight is going to have to be well controlled. And will be more difficult to police that what we have now.


----------



## lullabydream

Sairy said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a reason why the death rates are lower at weekends? They mentioned it on the news that the last two weekends the death toll has been lower and I was wondering if there was a reason for it.


They don't always get all the data from hospitals was how I read it, at weekends, with still some what still lower measures...Hence why it was said weekend data aren't true statistics....

Am also not sure if the data also includes those that die at home, it's unclear. That would be another reason too.. Or there could be more data somewhere on that too. As there will be some that don't go to hospital for whatever reason

Disclaimer no figures are possibly true with no testing per se, especially those who have the virus. The number is probably a lot more. If people knew the true figures it might help


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> They don't always get all the data from hospitals was how I read it, at weekends, with still some what still lower measures...Hence why it was said weekend data aren't true statistics....
> 
> Am also not sure if the data also includes those that die at home, it's unclear. That would be another reason too.. Or there could be more data somewhere on that too. As there will be some that don't go to hospital for whatever reason
> 
> Disclaimer no figures are possibly true with no testing per se, especially those who have the virus. The number is probably a lot more. If people knew the true figures it might help


I got the impression the figures still didn't include those that died at home, simply because they a haven't been tested?

We need to appreciate the fact that as testing ramps up, so will the number of cases, but as long as they stay reporting deaths and hospital admission with consistency, those should be the measures they use to see if any difference it being made.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not sure if they do any good but it will make me feel better about going out to do the shopping, we ordered some face masks and they came this morning.
> .


this is the problem
masks are considered to be pretty much useless, except to prevent your germs going onto other people
they are, allegedly, of little use in stopping other people giving their germs to you
so, therefore, at the moment ( there are some ongoing tests, as there are for everything)
give a false sense of security


Magyarmum said:


> You also need to wear disposable medical examination gloves when you go shopping in order to prevent cross contamination.


not unless you change the gloves after you touch every single item, otherwise, again a false sense of security, wearing gloves usually means you wash your hands less, because mentally you feel protected
as soon as you pick up something, say a tin of beans, your glove is, immediately, covered in germs
you then go and pick up a bunch of bananas, not only have you transferred, some, of the germs from the glove, to the bananas, but youve also added more germs to the gloves, you then decide you only want 6 bananas, not 8, so you put two back, youve now left bananas on the shelf, with not only their original gersm, but some of the germs from your gloves, that came from the original tin of beans, and so on ad infinitum until you finish your shopping
you go outside the shop and the wind blows your hair across your face, so you scrape it back so that you can see where your going, something you do naturally, without thinking
oops! youve now touched your face, with the gloves, covered in germs
you take off the gloves and throw them away, but, one of your fingers touch the outside of one of them, not fully, just a whisper, but enough to transfer some of those germs, onto your finger, a direct route to your hands
those germs which are then transferred to your door handle and steering wheel etc

you get home and, bare handed transfer your shopping bags, that you transferred to the car wearing gloves, to your partner, transferring germs
your partner immediately decides they want to use the car, so they get in and the germs from the steering wheel transfer to them
and so the chain continues

edit because i pressed post rather than continue


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> It's nothing to do with the coroner being available to report it is it?


Just going to add that to my post too, as I thought I had put it on, but OH was shouting are you going to eat with us or not as I was replying.. Typical nothing happening in the household. 
I think a doctor would sign the death certificate straightaway though, and that's it.. Then a death registered whenever..

I do think they may 'wait' if possible for results that might not be Forth coming on for coronavirus though for statistical analysis.
Am a stubborn mule to get hospital treatment ie sepsis, and I think many people will be in under the circumstances. I don't thinking testing is done UK based currently or so the media states... Swabs take time to come back too.


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> this is the problem
> masks are considered to be pretty much useless, except to prevent your germs going onto other people
> they are, allegedly, of little use in stopping other people giving their germs to you
> so, therefore, at the moment ( there are some ongoing tests, as there are for everything)
> give a false sense of security


I know the jury is out on masks, it's just makes me feel better and there is no harm in using them, if they are any good or not we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> this is the problem
> masks are considered to be pretty much useless, except to prevent your germs going onto other people
> they are, allegedly, of little use in stopping other people giving their germs to you
> so, therefore, at the moment ( there are some ongoing tests, as there are for everything)
> give a false sense of security
> 
> not unless you change the gloves after you touch every single item, otherwise, again a false sense of security
> as soon as you pick up something, say a tin of beans, your glove is, immediately, covered in germs
> you then go and pick up a bunch of bananas, not only have you transferred, some, of the germs from the glove, to the bananas, but youve also added more germs to the gloves, you then decide you only want 6 bananas, not 8, so you put two back, youve now left bananas on the shelf, with not only their original gersm, but some of the germs from your gloves, that came from the original tin of beans, and so on ad infinitum
> you go outside the shop and the wind blows your hair across your face, so you scrape it bac so you can see
> oops youve now touched your face, with the gloves covered in germs
> ou take off the gloves and one of your fingers touch the outside of one of them, nit fully, just a whisper, but enough


I have to wear disposable gloves a lot because due to allergies I have permanently sore and cracked fingertips and I'm not gong to risk them becoming infected..

Of course it's possible to wear gloves safely.

It's all a matter of being well organised and knowing exactly what you want when you shop ............. and self discipline in being acutely conscious of what you're touching and only touching the items you wish to buy.. In fact because you're wearing gloves you become far more aware of what you're doing

It was windy when I went shopping, so knowing my hair was likely to blow into my face, I fastened it back with hairgrips. As for removing them there's a very safe way of removing gloves without you touching the contaminated outer part.as I'm sure any nurse or doctor will tell you.

And it goes without saying when you get home you make sure everything you've bought and touched including the in the car is thoroughly disinfected, and your clothes are changed and washed..


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://t.co/xo8AansUvc

May save your life.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Yes, management can be awkward, but believe me, the people on the ground usually do their best.
> 
> I would suggest the best thing to do would be to get the repair organised herself, but sometimes that isn't possible.


We speak as we find


----------



## Lurcherlad

cheekyscrip said:


> https://t.co/xo8AansUvc
> 
> May save your life.


Thanks for that - good to know.

OH is going to do it anyway as his breathing has been affected by the pulmonary embolism he suffered recently on chemo. It should help there too.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> And it goes without saying when you get home you make sure everything you've bought and touched including the in the car is thoroughly disinfected


Was thinking only this morning that my steering wheel has never been so clean


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> I have to wear disposable gloves a lot because due to allergies I have permanently sore and cracked fingertips and I'm not gong to risk them becoming infected..
> 
> Of course it's possible to wear gloves safely.
> 
> It's all a matter of being well organised and knowing exactly what you want when you shop ............. and self discipline in being acutely conscious of what you're touching and only touching the items you wish to buy.. In fact because you're wearing gloves you become far more aware of what you're doing
> 
> It was windy when I went shopping, so knowing my hair was likely to blow into my face, I fastened it back with hairgrips. As for removing them there's a very safe way of removing gloves without you touching the contaminated outer part.as I'm sure any nurse or doctor will tell you.
> 
> And it goes without saying when you get home you make sure everything you've bought and touched including the in the car is thoroughly disinfected, and your clothes are changed and washed..


Im sorry if you thought i was meaning you personally
youve spoken about your allergies before and how bad your hands can be
so i knew you had good knowledge of how to use medical grade gloves
but for 'the man on the Clapham omnibus'
not only does he not know the difference between gloves you buy in the poundshop
and 
medical grade gloves
but he also has no knowledge of proper glove protocol and disposal

maybe i should have put ( royal you, not you, you) but ive had some flak about using that as, apparently not everyone understands the phrase, so am damned if i do, yet risk causing offence if i dont
again my apologies


----------



## mrs phas

cheekyscrip said:


> https://t.co/xo8AansUvc
> 
> May save your life.


thank you
have also passed that to matt, as he had mets in his lungs, and, hasnt really been able to breathe deeply since


----------



## stuaz

Cully said:


> I think it's more that they cannot obtain glass at the moment, that's according to the lady who books the repairs.
> And I don't have buildings or home contents insurance as it's council property.


Slightly off topic, but please do look into getting contents insurance. It won't have helped you in this instance, but it is useful for damage done inside the property. Even better get a policy with Legal cover as that can be invaluable in a variety of situations for example if you have a dispute over a product or service provided by anyone or even in neighbourly disputes.


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> I know the jury is out on masks, it's just makes me feel better and there is no harm in using them, if they are any good or not we'll have to wait and see.


I have one here for stained glass work - the cement and dust to secure the glass in the lead is toxic and honestly I end up touching my face more. Last week I got into a real panic about touching my face after I had to go out to get food shopping.


----------



## MilleD

Apparently Boris Johnson has been taken to intensive care


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> Apparently Boris Johnson has been taken to intensive care


bet hes not so in favour of herd immunity now

i do wish him well however
his politics dont matter now


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> Apparently Boris Johnson has been taken to intensive care


Just saw it trending on Twitter. Really hope he will be ok.


----------



## MollySmith

deleted, repeat post about Boris Johnson


----------



## Sacrechat

I wore a mask today when I went to the doctors and I carried a disinfectant wipe with and used it to press the intercom button and the lift buttons.


----------



## Elles

MilleD said:


> Apparently Boris Johnson has been taken to intensive care


just seen it on my news feed


----------



## Elles

Reminds me of when Maggie died and all the self proclaimed, kind, caring people danced and sang, while her family mourned. People are being quite vicious as usual.


----------



## Psygon

I may not be a fan of Boris, but I do hope he pulls through this. :-(


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> I may not be a fan of Boris, but I do hope he pulls through this. :-(


Same here, his fiancee must be distraught not only pregnant with Covid-19 symptoms herself, with little knowledge on what the outcome will be. Probably nothing but it's a new virus so who knows, then this with Boris. It's not worth beginning to think any of understand because we just don't, and while running the country Boris has had that worry too.


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Reminds me of when Maggie died and all the self proclaimed, kind, caring people danced and sang, while her family mourned. People are being quite vicious as usual.


i wasnt a fan of her politics either
but
In retrospect, having lived through 3 day weeks and lighting on every other day, if we were lucky, as a leader, one really has to say she was magnificant
and
led to a lot of people, who had no hope of owning their own home, a chance
just a shame she didnt make it a law, that all the monies went straight back into social housing


----------



## Psygon

lullabydream said:


> Same here, his fiancee must be distraught not only pregnant with Covid-19 symptoms herself, with little knowledge on what the outcome will be. Probably nothing but it's a new virus so who knows, then this with Boris. It's not worth beginning to think any of understand because we just don't, and while running the country Boris has had that worry too.


Yup :-(


----------



## canuckjill

Hope Boris comes out of this ok. So many things to worry about....I wear a mask, I wear it along with self isolation as much as possible and self distancing. If I were asymptomatic I would feel awful giving it to someone.


----------



## MollySmith

I'm not sharing this to get over political but to show how the Cabinet have been hammered by this virus - and Chris Whittle who is also isolating still.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-admission-to-hospital?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Same here, his fiancee must be distraught not only pregnant with Covid-19 symptoms herself, with little knowledge on what the outcome will be. Probably nothing but it's a new virus so who knows, then this with Boris. It's not worth beginning to think any of understand because we just don't, and while running the country Boris has had that worry too.


Maybe it's understandable now how peeved people might be with those flouters who selfishly believe their actions have no bearing on anybody else?

Even without underlying health issues, nobody is safe from being potentially seriously ill (or worse ) if they contract this virus.


----------



## willa

Gosh I wish him a speedy recovery


----------



## Jesthar

Psygon said:


> I may not be a fan of Boris, but I do hope he pulls through this. :-(


Hopefully he will, and hopefully it will also change him for the better as a person. Being made so aware of the fragilty of life can do that...


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

I hope hes ok, hes a relatively young man in his 50s and it just a reminder of the seriousness of this disease.


----------



## Jaf

I'm not terribly worried about Boris. He won't be left in the corridor for hours or have his ventilator taken away for another patient.


----------



## willa

I suspect it’s more serious than Downing Street are telling us


----------



## Jesthar

Crikey - if some people think lockdown here is hard, in the Phillipines their hardline President has ordered the military and Police to shoot those who beark lockdown and argue about it! One person dead through defiance already:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/philippines-man-refusing-wear-facemask-21820880


----------



## mrs phas

Jaf said:


> I'm not terribly worried about Boris. He won't be left in the corridor for hours or have his ventilator taken away for another patient.


i did say to matt
"i wonder what little old person, has been bumped off a ventilator for him"
and yes i do think, if needed, someone wouldve been, without a second thought
especially, despite the fact they keep spouting about the shortage of ventilators, being a reason to social distance,
one was found spare for him, just laying about, unused, in the corner?
as i said
cynical me popped out for a visit, normally i keep her well leashed

i still wish him well though


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe it's understandable now how peeved people might be with those flouters who selfishly believe their actions have no bearing on anybody else


MPs didn't exactly take their own advice about keeping their distance from each other though did they. Boris was probably exposed time and time again. If viral load has a bearing on how seriously the disease hits then it's not really a surprise he's this ill.


----------



## Rafa

mrs phas said:


> i did say to matt
> "i wonder what little old person, has been bumped off a ventilator for him"
> and yes i do think, if needed, someone wouldve been, without a second thought
> especially, despite the fact they keep spouting about the shortage of ventilators, being a reason to social distance,
> one was found spare for him, just laying about, unused, in the corner?
> as i said
> cynical me popped out for a visit, normally i keep her well leashed
> 
> i still wish him well though


He isn't on a ventilator.


----------



## mrs phas

Rafa said:


> He isn't on a ventilator.


Yet
And tbh who knows?
At the 5 o'clock briefing he was doing well
But
By then he was, already in ICU, according to some sources
I'm begining to believe nothing that I don't see myself or can't feel myself

Btw, I did quantify my post as being from my cynical side, which is not necessarily my, nor anyone elses, fact based side
It's why it's called cynical


----------



## DoodlesRule

My dad went into respiratory failure after operation & was on life support couple of years ago. We had the call get to hospital now he's critically ill know more in 48 hours. Its awful, best wishes to Boris. It must be terrifying going through that with no family & hospital staff in full gear


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I'm not sharing this to get over political but to show how the Cabinet have been hammered by this virus - and Chris Whittle who is also isolating still.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-admission-to-hospital?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I'm not sure what that drivel is supposed to mean. Is it a news story? Not an attack on you, it really does read like verbal diarrhea.

And if you mean Chris Whitty, wasn't he part of the Downing Street briefing today?


----------



## Rafa

mrs phas said:


> Yet
> And tbh who knows?
> At the 5 o'clock briefing he was doing well
> But
> By then he was, already in ICU, according to some sources
> I'm begining to believe nothing that I don't see myself or can't feel myself
> 
> Btw, I did quantify my post as being from my cynical side, which is not necessarily my, nor anyone elses, fact based side
> It's why it's called cynical


Ah, I see.

So there is no reason to believe some little old person has been, or will be, 'bumped' off a ventilator for him?

Cynical isn't the word I would typically use.


----------



## willa

I expect tomorrow we’ll get the news that he’s deteriorated further.
I dunno, find it hard to believe anything the Government are saying atm

Everything about this virus is horrid


----------



## Elles

They’ve said they have enough equipment to treat everyone if people keep up with the distancing and isolating, so I doubt it was necessary to kick anyone off a ventilator for Boris. My husband’s mother is very sick at the moment and where they are, my husband’s father has been fully kitted out so that he can be with her. She’s not expected to live through it, being a 73 year old asthmatic who was already not very well. 

She seemed to be rallying two days ago, but deteriorated again. It seems it does happen sometimes with covid. People think they’re getting better, then bam. I read about one of the nurses who seemed to be recovering, but suddenly took a turn for the worse and sadly did die from it.


----------



## mrs phas

Rafa said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> So there is no reason to believe some little old person has been, or will be, 'bumped' off a ventilator for him?
> 
> Cynical isn't the word I would typically use.


But I choose to
Differences are what makes us human
Be boring if we all agreed
(Except on social distancing)


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> They've said they have enough equipment to treat everyone if people keep up with the distancing and isolating, so I doubt it was necessary to kick anyone off a ventilator for Boris. My husband's mother is very sick at the moment and where they are, my husband's father has been fully kitted out so that he can be with her. She's not expected to live through it, being a 73 year old asthmatic who was already not very well.
> 
> She seemed to be rallying two days ago, but deteriorated again. It seems it does happen sometimes with covid. People think they're getting better, then bam. I read about one of the nurses who seemed to be recovering, but suddenly took a turn for the worse and sadly did die from it.


Don't want to like this
As nothing to like
But I do send you my caring thoughts


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> i wasnt a fan of her politics either
> but
> In retrospect, having lived through 3 day weeks and lighting on every other day, if we were lucky, as a leader, one really has to say she was magnificant
> and
> led to a lot of people, who had no hope of owning their own home, a chance
> just a shame she didnt make it a law, that all the monies went straight back into social housing


:Hilarious


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> They've said they have enough equipment to treat everyone if people keep up with the distancing and isolating, so I doubt it was necessary to kick anyone off a ventilator for Boris. My husband's mother is very sick at the moment and where they are, my husband's father has been fully kitted out so that he can be with her. She's not expected to live through it, being a 73 year old asthmatic who was already not very well.
> 
> She seemed to be rallying two days ago, but deteriorated again. It seems it does happen sometimes with covid. People think they're getting better, then bam. I read about one of the nurses who seemed to be recovering, but suddenly took a turn for the worse and sadly did die from it.


How odd. That describes exactly what has happened to my OH's aunt.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> :Hilarious


Would you care to explain?


----------



## purringcats

I see shortly after the 7pm update last night Boris was moved into intensive care as he had breathing difficulties. I hope he pulls through this as like him or loathe him he has been a very good PM so far?


----------



## purringcats

Hopefully those that insist on flouting the lockdown rules will now take them seriously now and stay at home instead of sunbathing in parks and on beaches around the country and throwing garden parties etc?


----------



## MissSpitzMum

purringcats said:


> like him or loathe him he has been a very good PM so far?


Yeah.... No.

- Economy over lives.
- Decided not to test anyone.
- Tried to sell Corona as 'no big deal' so we wouldn't realise the hundreds of thousands of lives he wanted to sacrifice to the economy.
- Failed to work with the EU during a time of crisis to benefit us all.
- His health secretary has links to people wanting to privatise the NHS, profited from the NHS, and increased NHS budget going towards private entities during his tenure.

If any good comes of Boris' stay in hospital, let it be him actually, genuinely (and not for PR soundbites), respecting it enough to actually fund it.


----------



## Magyarmum

MissSpitzMum said:


> Yeah.... No.
> 
> - Economy over lives.
> - Decided not to test anyone.
> - Tried to sell Corona as 'no big deal' so we wouldn't realise the hundreds of thousands of lives he wanted to sacrifice to the economy.
> - Failed to work with the EU during a time of crisis to benefit us all.
> - His health secretary has links to people wanting to privatise the NHS, profited from the NHS, and increased NHS budget going towards private entities during his tenure.
> 
> If any good comes of Boris' stay in hospital, let it be him actually, genuinely (and not for PR soundbites), respecting it enough to actually fund it.


You could be describing the US as well as several EU countries.


----------



## MilleD

MissSpitzMum said:


> Yeah.... No.
> 
> - Economy over lives.
> - Decided not to test anyone.
> - Tried to sell Corona as 'no big deal' so we wouldn't realise the hundreds of thousands of lives he wanted to sacrifice to the economy.
> - Failed to work with the EU during a time of crisis to benefit us all.
> - His health secretary has links to people wanting to privatise the NHS, profited from the NHS, and increased NHS budget going towards private entities during his tenure.
> 
> If any good comes of Boris' stay in hospital, let it be him actually, genuinely (and not for PR soundbites), respecting it enough to actually fund it.


Yeah, this is exactly the time for posts like this


----------



## catz4m8z

MissSpitzMum said:


> Yeah.... No.
> 
> If any good comes of Boris' stay in hospital, let it be him actually, genuinely (and not for PR soundbites), respecting it enough to actually fund it.


Id disagree with some of that. I think mistakes were made, mainly with trying herd immunity first and then the testing fiasco but I think they are trying to do by right by everyone. Not anyone I would vote for but it cant be easy to try and save lives and the economy at the same time. Hoping poor ol' Boris gets better soon!

I agree about the NHS though. Maybe this situation will make people realiese what a precious resource it truly is.


----------



## Siskin

MissSpitzMum said:


> Yeah.... No.
> 
> - Economy over lives.
> - Decided not to test anyone.
> - Tried to sell Corona as 'no big deal' so we wouldn't realise the hundreds of thousands of lives he wanted to sacrifice to the economy.
> - Failed to work with the EU during a time of crisis to benefit us all.
> - His health secretary has links to people wanting to privatise the NHS, profited from the NHS, and increased NHS budget going towards private entities during his tenure.
> 
> If any good comes of Boris' stay in hospital, let it be him actually, genuinely (and not for PR soundbites), respecting it enough to actually fund it.


Who do you think would do it better?


----------



## SusieRainbow

MilleD said:


> Yeah, this is exactly the time for posts like this


I agree with @MilleD
However you may feel about Boris as our political leader can we just take time to remember he's someone's son, fiance, a father-to-be , and just wish him well for a quick recovery ?
We've said from the start that this thread is no place for political debate, it's here to share accurate information and for us to support each other.


----------



## kimthecat

Thinking of Boris's children , dad and brothers and sister .and Carrie . Really hope he gets to meet his baby.
Thinking of all the families affected who have lost loved one and those battling this illness.
Looking back at the start of the thread , where it didnt seem too bad and now the worst is yet to come


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Jaf said:


> I'm not terribly worried about Boris. He won't be left in the corridor for hours or have his ventilator taken away for another patient.


Thats true but its still disturbing to see a healthy middle aged man in this condition. If it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Sacrechat

purringcats said:


> Hopefully those that insist on flouting the lockdown rules will now take them seriously now and stay at home instead of sunbathing in parks and on beaches around the country and throwing garden parties etc?


I doubt it! They're too stupid. Just had a man on a caravan forum asking if he can still rent out his van to holiday makers during lockdown, even though the caravan park has posted a notice to say it is closed.

Another man complaining because some people, in breach of their license, are living in their vans and have to isolate there. He seems to think they are enjoying themselves on their holidays and he's missing out, despite the fact all facilities are closed.

Another woman complained she was being held prisoner on her park, because all entrances and exits were locked apart for 2 hours per day. She clearly didn't understand the meaning of lockdown.

People like this would need to possess a brain cell before they understood what is happening.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

kimthecat said:


> Thinking of Boris's children , dad and brothers and sister .and Carrie . Really hope he gets to meet his baby.
> Thinking of all the families affect who have lost loved one and those battling this illness.
> Looking back at the start of the thread , where it didnt seem too bad and now the worst is yet to come


Yeah, I remember when you started the thread. Hard to believe it was only a few weeks ago.


----------



## kimthecat

perhaps time to totally lock down ? 

About sunbathers , I think if you all sit for half an hour in a park at a distance from each other you are less likely to spread it than those running and cycling round the park . I can avoid sunbathers but joggers and cyclist , they just pass right by you and done give you any room.  They're panting and breathing heavily , surely that would spread it more. 
people also sticking to the paths and passing each other and not walking on the grass in the parks where there is more room.


----------



## kimthecat

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yeah, I remember when you started the thread. Hard to believe it was only a few weeks ago.


Yeah ,I was surprised that no one else had started a thread about it .


----------



## purringcats

Just had this through my letter box in an envelope marked "This is a vital update from the Government about Coronavirus". There is a booklet enclosed about the coronavirus as well.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

mrs phas said:


> i did say to matt
> "i wonder what little old person, has been bumped off a ventilator for him"
> and yes i do think, if needed, someone wouldve been, without a second thought
> especially, despite the fact they keep spouting about the shortage of ventilators, being a reason to social distance,
> one was found spare for him, just laying about, unused, in the corner?
> as i said
> cynical me popped out for a visit, normally i keep her well leashed
> 
> i still wish him well though


 They will have reserved a ventilator and private room for the PM when the pandemic was declared, just in case. Its not cynical, its reality.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

kimthecat said:


> Yeah ,I was surprised that no one else had started a thread about it .


Me too. I had been looking for it on here for a while...


----------



## JoanneF

I'm really cross. My next door neighbour has had visitors in her garden three days in a row. I'm sure she could argue that they are maintaining 2m distance but it's annoying me that she thinks it is ok. Am I over-reacting?


----------



## purringcats

JoanneF said:


> I'm really cross. My next door neighbour has had visitors in her garden three days in a row. I'm sure she could argue that they are maintaining 2m distance but it's annoying me that she thinks it is ok. Am I over-reacting?


101 it and let the police know when your neighbour is doing this as they are flouting the rules. Tell them you want to remain annoynamous and they will send a police officer around.

No you are not over reacting.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> Just had this through my letter box in an envelope marked "This is a vital update from the Government about Coronavirus". There is a booklet enclosed about the coronavirus as well.
> 
> View attachment 435826
> 
> View attachment 435827


Every household is getting it.


----------



## MilleD

MissMiloKitty said:


> They will have reserved a ventilator and private room for the PM when the pandemic was declared, just in case. Its not cynical, its reality.


Wow.


----------



## JoanneF

purringcats said:


> 101 it and let the police know when your neighbour is doing this as they are flouting the rules. Tell them you want to remain annoynamous and they will send a police officer around.
> 
> No you are not over reacting.


You don't think the ability to be 2m apart will make it ok? And it isn't her who has made the non essential travel. This is what makes me hesitant.


----------



## Jesthar

JoanneF said:


> You don't think the ability to be 2m apart will make it ok? And it isn't her who has made the non essential travel. This is what makes me hesitant.


Both are technically at fault - the others for visiting, the neighbour for repeatedly allowing it.

One might potentially make a case for a single visit as long as social distancing was adhered to, or if the person was doing some garden maintenance or bringing essential supplies and they had a chat. Three days in a row is pushing it, though.


MilleD said:


> Wow.


Why wouldn't thay? Love him or loath him, he's the leader of the country right now.


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Yeah ,I was surprised that no one else had started a thread about it .


I hadn't read the early part of the thread till now, but it seems our current situation is probably a bit of a shock for some people looking at comments made!


----------



## rona

rona said:


> How odd. That describes exactly what has happened to my OH's aunt.


She will be one in the figures tomorrow


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> She will be one in the figures tomorrow


So sorry for your loss

Hope your OH is OK, and his mum can get through this in this difficult time


----------



## purringcats

JoanneF said:


> You don't think the ability to be 2m apart will make it ok? And it isn't her who has made the non essential travel. This is what makes me hesitant.





> *You should not meet friends or relatives who do not live in your home.*


 What I have highlighted in bold has been repeatedly said on the news updates and in the letter sent to every household. So no one should be going around to their friends or relatives home if they do not live there. These are the rules regardless if you are keeping 2m away from everyone. Socialise via whatsapp, facetime, skype and social media.


----------



## purringcats

Michael Gove is self isolating after a family member shows symptoms of Covid-19.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...new-covid-19-deaths-in-last-24-hours-11969724


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


>


I would, yes. Because I feel like my body is better able to fight it off than the people I would be going out for. 
My huge fear though is not that I will get sick, but that I am or will be an asymptomatic carrier and inadvertently give it to someone else.

I *really* wish they would ramp up testing. We need to know not just who's sick, so they can stay home even if asymptomatic, but also who has had it and is now 'clear'. Those who have antibodies and are no longer shedding virus can not only get back out in to the work force and ease the strain, but can donate plasma and help keep others healthy.


----------



## Rafa

MissMiloKitty said:


> They will have reserved a ventilator and private room for the PM when the pandemic was declared, just in case. Its not cynical, its reality.


Do you have a link to where you got that information please?


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> I would, yes. Because I feel like my body is better able to fight it off than the people I would be going out for.
> My huge fear though is not that I will get sick, but that I am or will be an asymptomatic carrier and inadvertently give it to someone else.
> 
> I *really* wish they would ramp up testing. We need to know not just who's sick, so they can stay home even if asymptomatic, but also who has had it and is now 'clear'. Those who have antibodies and are no longer shedding virus can not only get back out in to the work force and ease the strain, but can donate plasma and help keep others healthy.


Same here.... 
Hasn't the leading Covid-19 person in the US who sounds very good Dr Faucii? say 50% maybe asymptomatic so that's a lot. Which would mean the figures of 80% get mild dose, 14% need some assistant and 6% need critical care are actually only 50% of people who get Covid-19 That's massive.

We need the testing, we need it to be accurate.


----------



## Magyarmum

*The Daily Mash*

*F**k off and leave us alone, say old people*
7th April 2020








*OLD people have requested bored younger people to please f**k off and leave them alone.*

Pensioners have asked family to stop Skyping, neighbours to stop knocking on every day offering help and kids to stop making them rainbows to put in their windows.

75-year-old Mary Fisher said: "Everyone suddenly can't get enough of me. Well I didn't like them before and I don't like them now.

"First it was my family, all on the phone saying how terrible they feel that they can't come and help. I had to bite back my 'Don't worry I'm used to it, I've seen none of you since Christmas.'

"Then it was the bearded millennial with the pierced face who lives in the flats up the road. He knocked on the door, stood back two metres and politely asked if I wanted any shopping. Bloody nerve.

"I get my exercise walking down the middle of the street because there's no-one to stop me. I buy my groceries at 7am and if anyone comes close I'm allowed to hit them with my stick. I'm fine.

"Bugger off the lot of you before you give me that virus. The next person who disturbs me I'm calling the police."


----------



## Lurcherlad

JoanneF said:


> I'm really cross. My next door neighbour has had visitors in her garden three days in a row. I'm sure she could argue that they are maintaining 2m distance but it's annoying me that she thinks it is ok. Am I over-reacting?


Some will think so 

Personally, I don't think you are and have every right to be angry.

Their actions could potentially impact very badly on someone - or several people 

They don't seem to be taking it seriously.


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> 101 it and let the police know when your neighbour is doing this as they are flouting the rules. Tell them you want to remain annoynamous and they will send a police officer around.
> 
> No you are not over reacting.





JoanneF said:


> You don't think the ability to be 2m apart will make it ok? And it isn't her who has made the non essential travel. This is what makes me hesitant.


People visiting is violating a lock down order and putting you and everyone else at risk.


----------



## lorilu

MissMiloKitty said:


> They will have reserved a ventilator and private room for the PM when the pandemic was declared, just in case. Its not cynical, its reality.


It's only sensible isn't it. The leader of a country is essential personnel in the most literal definition.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> I *really* wish they would ramp up testing. We need to know not just who's sick, so they can stay home even if asymptomatic, but also who has had it and is now 'clear'. Those who have antibodies and are no longer shedding virus can not only get back out in to the work force and ease the strain, but can donate plasma and help keep others healthy.


I hope for this daily.


----------



## Magyarmum

lorilu said:


> It's only sensible isn't it. The leader of a country is essential personnel in the most literal definition.


I daresay the NHS have a few ventilators put aside for the Queen and Royal Family.


----------



## Sacrechat

Rafa said:


> Do you have a link to where you got that information please?


I'm not being funny, but do you have to argue about this? You clearly have different views, none of which can be proven, so arguing about it is a pointless exercise. Agree to disagree and move on, please!


----------



## Lurcherlad

O2.0 said:


> I would, yes. Because I feel like my body is better able to fight it off than the people I would be going out for.
> My huge fear though is not that I will get sick, but that I am or will be an asymptomatic carrier and inadvertently give it to someone else.
> 
> I *really* wish they would ramp up testing. We need to know not just who's sick, so they can stay home even if asymptomatic, but also who has had it and is now 'clear'. Those who have antibodies and are no longer shedding virus can not only get back out in to the work force and ease the strain, but can donate plasma and help keep others healthy.


But it's one thing to venture out for essential reasons as we're being instructed. Don't think anyone has an issue with that.

It's the flouters, making extra trips out, socialising and taking unnecessary risks with everybody else's health that are the real issue.


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> I'm not being funny, but do you have to argue about this? You clearly have different views, none of which can be proven, so arguing about it is a pointless exercise. Agree to disagree and move on, please!


I didn't see it as argument, just mere curiosity. I too would like to see 'proof' of ventilators set aside for the PM, I don't particularly care either way. On the one hand it does make sense not to lose one's leader in the middle of a crisis, on the other hand, who's to say one life is more valuable than another. I can see both sides. 
But simply asking for a link doesn't seem argumentative to me *shrug*


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> I didn't see it as argument, just mere curiosity. I too would like to see 'proof' of ventilators set aside for the PM, I don't particularly care either way. On the one hand it does make sense not to lose one's leader in the middle of a crisis, on the other hand, who's to say one life is more valuable than another. I can see both sides.
> But simply asking for a link doesn't seem argumentative to me *shrug*


It's leading down that path.


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> But it's one thing to venture out for essential reasons as we're being instructed. Don't think anyone has an issue with that.
> 
> It's the flouters, making extra trips out, socialising and taking unnecessary risks with everybody else's health that are the real issue.


Speaking for me personally, I'm not going to judge how others are managing and behaving in these unprecedented times. Call me naive, but I'm going to operate under the assumption that we're all just doing the best we can. If my neighbor is buying truck loads of toilet paper and having family barbecues so be it. All I can do is the best *I* can do and leave others to do the same. Their best may not look like my best, but at the end of the day all we can do is be responsible for ourselves.

I just don't think it's a sane road for me to go down to start looking at what others are doing, counting how many trips they've made this week, who's visiting, etc. Well, that and I don't live close enough to my neighbors to keep track that well anyway! 
I'm just seeing a lot of sanctimonious posts on FB for example and I don't think it's helping the general feel of this time. We're already completely off kilter, we don't need to find reasons to be angry with each other on top of all that.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I guess I’m just over sensitive given that my husband is recovering from cancer, a pulmonary embolism and undergoing chemotherapy - rendering him extremely vulnerable if he catches the virus and a high chance of dying.

And it’s clear some aren’t doing their very best.

No matter what we do, some stranger could f*ck it up Royally for my family.

If that makes me judgemental and/or sanctimonious, I’ll own it!


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> We're already completely off kilter, we don't need to find reasons to be angry with each other on top of all that.


This is the very reason why I asked the two ladies to think before being confrontational about whether or not Boris has a ventilator reserved for him or not, because that is how I perceived the question for proof. You may not have felt it was, but I did and the person it was directed at may have too.


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> I guess I'm just over sensitive given that my husband is recovering from cancer, a pulmonary embolism and undergoing chemotherapy - rendering him extremely vulnerable if he catches the virus and a high chance of dying.
> 
> No matter what we do, some stranger could f*ck it up Royally for my family.
> 
> If that makes me judgemental and/or sanctimonious, I'll own it!


No I don't think you're being over sensitive. I tried very hard to compose my post as meaning for me personally. I know everyone's situation is different. 
I wish you and your husband all the best


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Speaking for me personally, I'm not going to judge how others are managing and behaving in these unprecedented times. Call me naive, but I'm going to operate under the assumption that we're all just doing the best we can. If my neighbor is buying truck loads of toilet paper and having family barbecues so be it. All I can do is the best *I* can do and leave others to do the same. Their best may not look like my best, but at the end of the day all we can do is be responsible for ourselves.
> 
> I just don't think it's a sane road for me to go down to start looking at what others are doing, counting how many trips they've made this week, who's visiting, etc. Well, that and I don't live close enough to my neighbors to keep track that well anyway!
> I'm just seeing a lot of sanctimonious posts on FB for example and I don't think it's helping the general feel of this time. We're already completely off kilter, we don't need to find reasons to be angry with each other on top of all that.


Peer pressure and being judgemental can work though. If following the rules feels of value, but not following them makes you feel like a murderous pariah, shunned by society, maybe more people will do as suggested and prevent more vulnerable people and health staff becoming ill.


----------



## Elles

My husband’s mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she’s suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn’t real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we’ll all wake up from in a minute.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> *The Daily Mash*
> 
> *F**k off and leave us alone, say old people*
> 7th April 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *OLD people have requested bored younger people to please f**k off and leave them alone.*
> 
> Pensioners have asked family to stop Skyping, neighbours to stop knocking on every day offering help and kids to stop making them rainbows to put in their windows.
> 
> 75-year-old Mary Fisher said: "Everyone suddenly can't get enough of me. Well I didn't like them before and I don't like them now.
> 
> "First it was my family, all on the phone saying how terrible they feel that they can't come and help. I had to bite back my 'Don't worry I'm used to it, I've seen none of you since Christmas.'
> 
> "Then it was the bearded millennial with the pierced face who lives in the flats up the road. He knocked on the door, stood back two metres and politely asked if I wanted any shopping. Bloody nerve.
> 
> "I get my exercise walking down the middle of the street because there's no-one to stop me. I buy my groceries at 7am and if anyone comes close I'm allowed to hit them with my stick. I'm fine.
> 
> "Bugger off the lot of you before you give me that virus. The next person who disturbs me I'm calling the police."


:Hilarious


----------



## Sacrechat

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


I'm sorry, hun!


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


What a terrible situation for you all to be in. These extremely difficulty circumstances are absolutely terrible for all those with loved ones hospitalised.

Sending a virtual hug from my family to yours, not much in the big scheme of things I know.. It seems that's all we have currently for all though


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


Im so sorry . A nightmare.


----------



## kimthecat

Libby is booked into to have her teeth cleaned tomorrow, and two loose teeth taken out. It was booked before lockdown. 
When we took puppy for second innoculation , OH gave them his mobile and said could they ring us if it was cancelled.
We've heard nothing . Just get answer machine saying in emergency contact etc . Just sent email but dont expect to get reply.
I dont know what to do , shall i just turn up , just in case ?


----------



## lorilu

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


{{{hug}}}


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


Oh my how awful. such a nightmare 
At least OH's relations have an end, even if not the one they wanted


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Libby is booked into to have her teeth cleaned tomorrow, and two loose teeth taken out. It was booked before lockdown.
> When we took puppy for second innoculation , OH gave them his mobile and said could they ring us if it was cancelled.
> We've heard nothing . Just get answer machine saying in emergency contact etc . Just sent email but dont expect to get reply.
> I dont know what to do , shall i just turn up , just in case ?


I would turn up just in case, because they should let you know one way or the other. I would imagine it has been cancelled, but by the sound of it, you just don't know. My vet is still taking phone calls. They have a skeleton staff. They are posting medication or we can turn up, ring and wait in the car park for a nurse to bring meds to us. They are only seeing emergencies.


----------



## JoanneF

Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


I'm so sorry.


----------



## shadowmare

Siskin said:


> Who do you think would do it better?


Why does it have to be someone else to do it better? Why is it that if people point out the mistakes and failings done by the leadership, the question is then - who could do it better? (Also suggesting that no one could) I don't understand why the immediate reaction from the public isn't to hold the existing leadership to account and demand improvements, different approach, different ideas? Or are people voting for candidates who are limited to their set ways and don't even expect them to grow and develop?


----------



## Elles

Thanks. 

With Kirsten dying too, we seem a bit surrounded by death right now. Her sister was with her when she passed and it was horrific for her. My son is devastated and angry, feels guilty that he couldn’t be there, but angry at himself that he’s glad in a way that he wasn’t. Of course he’s still stuck in Spain. The big discussion in my house atm is euthanasia. We haven’t told my daughter about her nanny yet. 

It would be terrible for the country if anything happens to Boris. We’d be thrown into turmoil over elections, the Eu and the vultures circling the wagons. Not what we need right now.


----------



## mrs phas

MissMiloKitty said:


> They will have reserved a ventilator and private room for the PM when the pandemic was declared, just in case. Its not cynical, its reality.


nothing like slumming it like the plebs then
maybe someone could have lived if that ventilator had been used
of course i realise you may be speculating, just like myself
unless you have some insider information, youd care to share


----------



## Sacrechat

Elles said:


> Thanks.
> 
> With Kirsten dying too, we seem a bit surrounded by death right now. Her sister was with her when she passed and it was horrific for her. My son is devastated and angry, feels guilty that he couldn't be there, but angry at himself that he's glad in a way that he wasn't. Of course he's still stuck in Spain. The big discussion in my house atm is euthanasia. We haven't told my daughter about her nanny yet.
> 
> It would be terrible for the country if anything happens to Boris. We'd be thrown into turmoil over elections, the Eu and the vultures circling the wagons. Not what we need right now.


Let's all hope and pray he pulls through for his, his family, his friends and our country's sake. I'm not a Tory, but I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

mrs phas said:


> nothing like slumming it like the plebs then
> maybe someone could have lived if that ventilator had been used
> of course i realise you may be speculating, just like myself
> unless you have some insider information, youd care to share


No I don't have insider information. I'm just speculating. I can't imagine the PM being put I'm a ward with plebs nor can I imagine him being left in a corridor.


----------



## Rafa

Sacremist said:


> I'm not being funny, but do you have to argue about this? You clearly have different views, none of which can be proven, so arguing about it is a pointless exercise. Agree to disagree and move on, please!


I have no intention of arguing with anyone. I have better things to do.

It actually upsets me to see someone speculate that NHS Staff have withheld a ventilator, which is sitting idle in an empty room, whilst people are dying because there are not enough ventilators for those who desperately need them.

I asked for a link because, if it's true, I would like to see it for myself.

It isn't a question of agreeing to disagree.


----------



## Siskin

shadowmare said:


> Why does it have to be someone else to do it better? Why is it that if people point out the mistakes and failings done by the leadership, the question is then - who could do it better? (Also suggesting that no one could) I don't understand why the immediate reaction from the public isn't to hold the existing leadership to account and demand improvements, different approach, different ideas? Or are people voting for candidates who are limited to their set ways and don't even expect them to grow and develop?


I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here nor am I happy that you think you know what I'm implying.

I wrote that because I would genuinely like to know who could do better and improve what is currently happening. I'm not a Labour voter but I do think that Keir Starmers offer of working with government should be taken up, the two main parties working together would be good for the country and I would be interested to see what he could contribute,

Prime ministers are given advice from all quarters and that is normally what they act upon, not strike out on there own saying I know best. They listen to advice, talk with the cabinet and come to decisions. This virus is something new, we can't control it easily and we can't cure it. You can look at other countries and see what they have done and whether that has worked for them. Closing the U.K. down totally as in China would have been very difficult here as the Chinese are used to being complicit over whatever their government tells them, most western countries don't, they argue,they disobey or ignore. Yes there has been mistakes with some decisions and having the form of lockdown we have now was inevitable and even though many are sticking to the rules there are a lot who aren't and think it doesn't apply to them or couldn't care less as @Cully found with the man who came to board up her window.

Yes hold the government to account over decisions, but also ask why those decisions were made and who advised them.


----------



## Sacrechat

Rafa said:


> I have no intention of arguing with anyone. I have better things to do.
> 
> It actually upsets me to see someone speculate that NHS Staff have withheld a ventilator, which is sitting idle in an empty room, whilst people are dying because there are not enough ventilators for those who desperately need them.
> 
> I asked for a link because, if it's true, I would like to see it for myself.
> 
> It isn't a question of agreeing to disagree.


To me it sounded confrontational and like I said, you can't prove they didn't any more than she can prove they did. Since neither of you can prove anything one way or the other, it just seems pointless. Since there is no proof either way, it also seems pointless to get upset. Discussing it, arguing about it, however, people view the posts, the only upset this can lead to is the two of you upsetting each other. I'm not telling you what to do; I'm just asking you to think about whether or not it's worth it considering what we all are facing at the moment. To me, it sounds like a political hot potato and mods have repeated more than once for us not to turn this thread into a discussion about politics. I'm not saying this just to you; I'm saying it to both of you. Just let it go!


----------



## kimthecat

shadowmare said:


> Why does it have to be someone else to do it better? Why is it that if people point out the mistakes and failings done by the leadership, the question is then - who could do it better? (Also suggesting that no one could) I don't understand why the immediate reaction from the public isn't to hold the existing leadership to account and demand improvements, different approach, different ideas? Or are people voting for candidates who are limited to their set ways and don't even expect them to grow and develop?


Its a valid question because Momentum are saying that Corbyn could have done better.
You cant undo whats been done or hasnt been done. Of course you have to learn from past mistakes and i would think the government is doing their best to get it right . This is unprecedented and we are in uncharted waters .You can demand all you like but we can still get it wrong.

What ideas do you have becauseI have no idea what is right or the best thing to do. Looking back , perhaps lock down should have started earlier.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I wrote that because I would genuinely like to know who could do better and improve what is currently happening. I'm not a Labour voter but I do think that Keir Starmers offer of working with government should be taken up, the two main parties working together would be good for the country and I would be interested to see what he could contribute,


I believe Boris has given the go ahead for him and other leaders to be in at all the meetings


----------



## kimthecat

Have we never had deputy PM's. I thought we did !


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Have we never had deputy PM's. I thought we did !


From what I heard on the news yesterday, no, we haven't. Our system of government is very different to the States. I believe Boris requested that Dominic Raab stand in his place for the time being.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

kimthecat said:


> Its a valid question because because momentum are saying that Corbyn could have done better.
> You cant undo whats been done or hasnt been done. Of course you have to learn from past mistakes and i would think the government is doing their best to get it right . This is unprecedented and we are in uncharted waters .
> You can demand all you like but we can still get it wrong.


I have my personal reasons who could do a better job, hence the concept of voting. We do however have Boris and pulling him up for his failings is perfectly valid. Just asking the question 'who could do better?' is tantamount to whataboutery.

I don't think we can let what he did slide due to 'unprecedented waters' for a number of reasons:

1. It is the Govs duty to be prepared for things like this.
2. He ignored WHO and other countries around the world whose measures were working. 
3. He followed the advice of economists over scientists, who all but his cherry picked were saying: delay. One of his speeches quite literally told the nation their loved ones would die after he announced a policy of herd immunity which required an acceptable figure (to him) of death in the hundreds of thousands.

That is all I will say as this thread isn't for politics. Leaders *should* be pulled up on their mistakes.

As for reserving a ventilator: they most likely did as it makes sense. His bed was being prepared days in advance and he had a wing of the hospital to himself pre ICU. It would be common sense to ensure the PM gets treatment.


----------



## kimthecat

:HilariousI'm only going to ask you one more time.. How many walks have you had today???


----------



## MilleD

MissSpitzMum said:


> I have my personal reasons who could do a better job, hence the concept of voting. We do however have Boris and pulling him up for his failings is perfectly valid. Just asking the question 'who could do better?' is tantamount to whataboutery.
> 
> I don't think we can let what he did slide due to 'unprecedented waters' for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. It is the Govs duty to be prepared for things like this.
> 2. He ignored WHO and other countries around the world whose measures were working.
> 3. He followed the advice of economists over scientists, who all but his cherry picked were saying: delay. One of his speeches quite literally told the nation their loved ones would die after he announced a policy of herd immunity which required an acceptable figure (to him) of death in the hundreds of thousands.
> 
> That is all I will say as this thread isn't for politics. Leaders *should* be pulled up on their mistakes.


Really? You're making a pretty good job of making it about politics.



MissSpitzMum said:


> As for reserving a ventilator: they most likely did as it makes sense. His bed was being prepared days in advance and he had a wing of the hospital to himself pre ICU. It would be common sense to ensure the PM gets treatment.


So you haven't a clue if that's true or not?


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I believe Boris has given the go ahead for him and other leaders to be in at all the meetings


That's good, pleased to hear this


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## SusieRainbow

MissSpitzMum said:


> I have my personal reasons who could do a better job, hence the concept of voting. We do however have Boris and pulling him up for his failings is perfectly valid. Just asking the question 'who could do better?' is tantamount to whataboutery.
> 
> I don't think we can let what he did slide due to 'unprecedented waters' for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. It is the Govs duty to be prepared for things like this.
> 2. He ignored WHO and other countries around the world whose measures were working.
> 3. He followed the advice of economists over scientists, who all but his cherry picked were saying: delay. One of his speeches quite literally told the nation their loved ones would die after he announced a policy of herd immunity which required an acceptable figure (to him) of death in the hundreds of thousands.
> 
> That is all I will say as this thread isn't for politics. Leaders *should* be pulled up on their mistakes.
> 
> As for reserving a ventilator: they most likely did as it makes sense. His bed was being prepared days in advance and he had a wing of the hospital to himself pre ICU. It would be common sense to ensure the PM gets treatment.


I have already reminded everyone not to bring politics into this thread. Any further infringement will lead to a thread ban.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

MilleD said:


> Really? You're making a pretty good job of making it about politics.


Possibly because people like you keep quoting spoiling for an argument? 

Not gonna bite on the second part.


----------



## kimthecat

MissSpitzMum said:


> Possibly because people like you keep quoting spoiling for an argument?
> 
> Not gonna bite on the second part.


:Hilarious

Well , it feels like every day is Sunday . Pips been more whiny than usual. he doesn't understand why people are coming in the gate and going away .


----------



## purringcats

Had a very long text from the Government today telling me I am in the high risk group and now need to stay in for the next 12 weeks. There was links to some various information that I haven't gone through yet. I do think the lock down may last longer than 12 weeks so no doubt I will be indoors longer than 12 weeks.


----------



## MilleD

MissSpitzMum said:


> Possibly because people like you keep quoting spoiling for an argument?
> 
> Not gonna bite on the second part.


Yeah, ok.....



ETA. Mods are on it so I'm now keeping out of it.


----------



## Bisbow

The doorbell just rang and on answering I found a box on the doorstep full of goodies from the government to keep me going

In it was potatoes, carrots, fruit, bread, tins of soup, baked beans and other bits and bobs, including soap and loo rolls

Seems like Boris is trying to look after us

Get well soon Boris , we need you and thank you


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> The doorbell just rang and on answering I found a box on the doorstep full of goodies from the government to keep me going
> 
> In it was potatoes, carrots, fruit, bread, tins of soup, baked beans and other bits and bobs, including soap and loo rolls
> 
> Seems like Boris is trying to look after us
> 
> Get well soon Boris , we need you and thank you


How good is that and useful things as well. Glad that has worked for you. Considering the short space of time between announcing the boxes to delivery some people must have been working very hard.


----------



## Jesthar

When considering how thngs might have been different, it may help to bear a couple of things in mind:


WHAT could have been done better is a pertinant question as lessons can be learned in order to better handle future events - but one must also remember that hindsight is always 20:20 (date pun accidental!)
WHO could have done it better is totally irrelevant, as - again - such speculation will always be coloured by hindsight.
Now, I don't wish any harm to Boris, but I can't bring myself to clap for him tonight, as I remember very well how HE clapped and cheered the blocking of pay rises and other funding for the NHS in recent years. But I won't be booing either, nor will I badmouth those who decide they do want to.


----------



## Lurcherlad

O2.0 said:


> No I don't think you're being over sensitive. I tried very hard to compose my post as meaning for me personally. I know everyone's situation is different.
> I wish you and your husband all the best





Elles said:


> My husband's mother has survived another night, but they say her brain has been starved of oxygen and she suffered a stroke, so even if she does survive, she's suffered irreversible brain damage. The family are in a bit of a mess, dad and one brother have fallen out over it and my hubby is being a bit snappy, which is understandable. I feel a bit like life isn't real atm. If you know what I mean.  Some kind of suspended animation, that we'll all wake up from in a minute.


My heart goes out to you all


----------



## kimthecat

Should schools remain shut or not? Differences of opinions. Schools are only open to children of key workers , perhaps they should leave it at that ?

original research (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30095-X/fulltext)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52180783

Coronavirus: Scientists question school closures impact

Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.

The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.

But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.

The government has said it will review its coronavirus policies after Easter.

While children can catch coronavirus, they rarely get severe symptoms. 
*What does the research show?*
The research, published in The Lancet Child and Adolescent Health, looked at 16 studies - some based on the spread of coronavirus, and others on seasonal flu and the 2003 Sars outbreak. The findings suggest:


While school closures help during influenza outbreaks, the same may not apply to coronavirus
Data from the Sars outbreak (in mainland China, Hong Kong, and Singapore) suggest that school closures did not contribute to the control of the epidemic
Recent modelling studies of Covid-19 predict that school closures alone would prevent only 2%-4% of deaths, many fewer than other social distancing interventions
*How reliable are the findings?*
One of the research authors, Prof Russell Viner, said: "Data on the benefit of school closures in the coronavirus outbreak is limited, but what we know shows that their impact is likely to be only small.

"Additionally, the costs of national school closures are high - children's education is damaged and their mental health may suffer, family finances are affected.

"Policymakers need to be aware of the equivocal evidence."

He says policymakers must weigh up the possible harms and reopen schools at the earliest opportunity - and not necessarily wait until September if it can be done safely sooner.

Prof Neil Ferguson, from Imperial College London, worked on the scientific modelling that the current government advice is based on. He says the Lancet research fails to take into account the impact that school closure can have alongside other lockdown measures.

"When combined with intense social distancing it plays an important role in severing remaining contacts between households and thus ensuring transmission declines," he said.




*How reliable are the findings?*
One of the research authors, Prof Russell Viner, said: "Data on the benefit of school closures in the coronavirus outbreak is limited, but what we know shows that their impact is likely to be only small.

"Additionally, the costs of national school closures are high - children's education is damaged and their mental health may suffer, family finances are affected.

"Policymakers need to be aware of the equivocal evidence."

He says policymakers must weigh up the possible harms and reopen schools at the earliest opportunity - and not necessarily wait until September if it can be done safely sooner.

Prof Neil Ferguson, from Imperial College London, worked on the scientific modelling that the current government advice is based on. He says the Lancet research fails to take into account the impact that school closure can have alongside other lockdown measures.

"When combined with intense social distancing it plays an important role in severing remaining contacts between households and thus ensuring transmission declines," he said.

But they can still spread the infection, which is why many countries have closed schools.


----------



## Rafa

Sacremist said:


> To me it sounded confrontational and like I said, you can't prove they didn't any more than she can prove they did. Since neither of you can prove anything one way or the other, it just seems pointless. Since there is no proof either way, it also seems pointless to get upset. Discussing it, arguing about it, however, people view the posts, the only upset this can lead to is the two of you upsetting each other. I'm not telling you what to do; I'm just asking you to think about whether or not it's worth it considering what we all are facing at the moment. To me, it sounds like a political hot potato and mods have repeated more than once for us not to turn this thread into a discussion about politics. I'm not saying this just to you; I'm saying it to both of you. Just let it go!


I don't discuss politics on this forum or anywhere else. I don't join in Political Threads.

My response was not political in any way, that is your interpretation.

As I said, I'm not going to argue with anyone but please, stop telling me what to do and don't tell me about what I can feel upset.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

I am a teacher and my opinion is they need to remain shut. So many teachers are vulnerable or who live with someone vulnerable. Children are asymptomatic germ factories. The two don't mix well, especially in small corridors and classrooms!

Schools would be understaffed or staff would need to risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones with no PPE. I know our union won't like that happening.

But that is just my opinion 

Edit: they could do a reduced timetable, spread the years out so you can try and implement social distancing in schools. The images in my head of herding year 7s around at 2m distances tells me that would be... Erm... Difficult


----------



## O2.0

@Elles and to everyone else with ill or dying family members I'm so very sorry and I wish I could do more than just offer a virtual hug


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> I would turn up just in case, because they should let you know one way or the other. I would imagine it has been cancelled, but by the sound of it, you just don't know. My vet is still taking phone calls. They have a skeleton staff. They are posting medication or we can turn up, ring and wait in the car park for a nurse to bring meds to us. They are only seeing emergencies.


Just had a reply to my email. They've closed the surgery and wont be doing anything until lock down is over.



MissSpitzMum said:


> I am a teacher and my opinion is they need to remain shut. So many teachers are vulnerable or who live with someone vulnerable. Children are asymptomatic germ factories. The two don't mix well, especially in small corridors and classrooms!
> 
> Schools would be understaffed or staff would need to risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones with no PPE. I know our union won't like that happening.
> 
> But that is just my opinion
> 
> Edit: they could do a reduced timetable, spread the years out so you can try and implement social distancing in schools. The images in my head of herding year 7s around at 2m distances tells me that would be... Erm... Difficult


Agree with you  I understand that teachers are volunteering to teach key workers children and you can opt out.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

kimthecat said:


> Agree with you  I understand that teachers are volunteering to teach key workers children and you can opt out.


That depends on the school. At mine you can opt out if you or someone you live with is at risk, you need to fill in a form. Other than that you are signed up on a rota. So it is half voluntary I suppose!


----------



## Sacrechat

Rafa said:


> I don't discuss politics on this forum or anywhere else. I don't join in Political Threads.
> 
> My response was not political in any way, that is your interpretation.
> 
> As I said, I'm not going to argue with anyone but please, stop telling me what to do and don't tell me about what I can feel upset.


I'm not telling you what to do or what should or should not upset you. If it upset you then maybe telling her as much wouldn't have had the same confrontational impact as your question. I'm asking you to think about what your question was going to achieve. I have no doubt that you knew she could not provide any proof and as she has since stated, it was her speculating not stating it as absolute fact. Point scoring with her was the only possible outcome I could see happening from that question, but clearly you don't want to let it go, so I'll bow out and leave you to your point scoring.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Moving on ........


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Just had a reply to my email. They've closed the surgery and wont be doing anything until lock down is over.


Ah well, at least you know for certain now.


----------



## purringcats

My friends 9 year old son rang me today to see if I was ok and asked if his mummy could get me anything in the supermarket (his mum was there with him when he phoned me, his mum/my friend said he was asking about me). This made my day today.


----------



## lorilu

.


----------



## Magyarmum

Interesting ............................

https://www.allodocteurs.fr/maladie...-pour-lutter-contre-le-coronavirus_29030.html

*What if we used veterinarians to fight the coronavirus?*


----------



## havoc

I think it's already been actioned here to call up vets and vet nurses, probably to release medical staff to coronavirus wards. They can do things like taking blood and other straightforward stuff. It's the bit people forget - that there are still wards full of non coronavirus patients.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> I think it's already been actioned here to call up vets and vet nurses, probably to release medical staff to coronavirus wards. They can do things like taking blood and other straightforward stuff. It's the bit people forget - that there are still wards full of non coronavirus patients.


This was what I was actually more interested in .............................

*Veterinary laboratories and animal test producers could at least develop 150,000 screening tests per week. Problem, the law today prohibits these experts from manufacturing products intended for humans.*

*Accustomed to episodes of major pandemics, notably in farm animals, industrialists in the veterinary sector informed the authorities that they were capable of producing large numbers of Covid-19 screening tests as well as serological tests. *


----------



## havoc

No idea if vet labs are involved yet but all sorts of private labs are involved.
Makes me wonder how quickly it will all return to jobsworths saying what can be done where when this is all over. One company that makes protective gear offered up a huge amount to the NHS a few weeks ago and it was refused. Massive shipment ended up going overseas while our doctors and nurses are using bin bags.


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> No idea if vet labs are involved yet but all sorts of private labs are involved.
> Makes me wonder how quickly it will all return to jobsworths saying what can be done where when this is all over. One company that makes protective gear offered up a huge amount to the NHS a few weeks ago and it was refused. Massive shipment ended up going overseas while our doctors and nurses are using bin bags.


Why was it refused and by whom, do you know?


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Why was it refused and by whom, do you know?


At the time it was a case of not being an 'approved' supplier. Not sure if it was offered through a trust or at national level but I'm pretty sure it was refused rather than the more typical just not bothering to reply. Since then I think there's been more of a relaxation in allowing local procurement.


----------



## Siskin

That seems to be part of the problem with the NHS, nurses and doctors are fantastic, management seem to want to make life awkward for everyone else instead of all pulling together


----------



## Siskin

On a lighter note


----------



## MilleD




----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> View attachment 435884


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

Paris is banning joggers from running between the hours of 10am and 7 pm to stop the streets getting too crowded . A good idea.
I hope it rains at Easter so people dont get tempted to travel too far.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> Paris is banning joggers from running between the hours of 10am and 7 pm to stop the streets getting too crowded . A good idea.
> I hope it rains at Easter so people dont get tempted to travel too far.


This is my nearest city. Miskolc Hungary city centre and residential area, on Monday morning 30 th March. Population 155,000


----------



## MilleD

Not strictly virus related, but could be when the cupboards start running a bit low:


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> This is my nearest city. Miskolc Hungary city centre and residential area, on Monday morning 30 th March. Population 155,000


Thats very quiet indeed. The A/M40 near us is always busy , Lorries but lots of cars too coming and going to London even at night I can hear the noise when I have my HAs in.

Very sad to hear that the young man who stood against Boris in the last election lost his father to Coronavirus last month. 

@MilleD :Hilarious What , no cheese on top ? :Smuggrin


----------



## purringcats

There has been alot of army helicopter noise the last few days (with them flying around) here as there is an army base a few miles away from my house.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> There has been alot of army helicopter noise the last few days (with them flying around) here as there is an army base a few miles away from my house.


There's one near mine too and I've heard nothing.

I guess it depends if they are being mobilised as part of the support to the NHS like they said on a briefing a few days back.


----------



## stuaz

Round by me it's been very quiet since lockdown with the roads mostly deserted and you able to cross them with ease. The quietness has also meant i have been able to hear the Lions at the nearby safari park roaring which is great to hear


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Coronavirus: Wuhan emerges from the harshest of lockdowns

"It took* 76 days*, but Wuhan's lockdown is now at an end. The highway tolls have reopened, and flights and train services are once again leaving the city."

Hopefully we won't have to wait this long.


----------



## purringcats

*Coronavirus: The European countries beginning to lift lockdown measures*

The leaders of Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic and Austria have announced plans to relax coronavirus lockdown restrictions.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-beginning-to-lift-lockdown-measures-11969857


----------



## samuelsmiles3

UK peak in coronavirus deaths expected within a week, according to latest Telegraph modelling

"The UK is approaching its peak in coronavirus deaths, with the highest number of expected daily deaths expected within a week, according to analysis by The Telegraph.

The peak in deaths is expected to come between April 11 and 14 although, between now and then, the number of deaths on any one day will stay relatively static at between 700 and 900."


----------



## purringcats

The current stats on death rates.
I hear on the news we have to learn from Germany. Why? Germany had loads of labs so they have been able to process tests quicker. Here in the UK we didn't have so many labs able to deal with the testing but are making facilities available from scratch. So this is why Germany are managing to control things and do so many tests.

Alarmingly France has now hit 10,000 deaths.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> @MilleD :Hilarious What , no cheese on top ? :Smuggrin


----------



## MilleD

Ralph refused to follow the self distancing rules. So I put him behind bars...


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> @MilleD :Hilarious What , no cheese on top ? :Smuggrin


No substitute for that :Hilarious


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Just back from my local Sainsburys - queue in the car park for the "oldies hour" was a lot longer than last week as more of us are trying to keep to our allotted time. But still was in and out in 40 minutes with all that I wanted - even eggs ! I did try to get some of the queue interested in doing some exercises whilst we waited to go in (thereby combining our once a day exercise with our allowed outing for essentials) but no takers !


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bertie'sMum said:


> Just back from my local Sainsburys - queue in the car park for the "oldies hour" was a lot longer than last week as more of us are trying to keep to our allotted time. But still was in and out in 40 minutes with all that I wanted - even eggs !


I went to Sainsbury's this morning for "oldies hours" as well, queue round the car park but moved quickly enough and got everything I wanted.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> :HilariousI'm only going to ask you one more time.. How many walks have you had today???


Thank goodness for something lighthearted, and not a round of political sniping. This thread was very useful and interesting once, but now seems just a place to vent our frustrations. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just venting my frustration in the lack of anything positive which might help us deal with the situation.
And if anyone is going to snipe at my comment, please don't. It's support and a hug I need now, not even more to worry about.


----------



## Cully

Bertie'sMum said:


> Just back from my local Sainsburys - queue in the car park for the "oldies hour" was a lot longer than last week as more of us are trying to keep to our allotted time. But still was in and out in 40 minutes with all that I wanted - even eggs ! I did try to get some of the queue interested in doing some exercises whilst we waited to go in (thereby combining our once a day exercise with our allowed outing for essentials) but no takers !


I would love to have seen that:Hilarious. Miserable beggars!


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Thank goodness for something lighthearted, and not a round of political sniping. This thread was very useful and interesting once, but now seems just a place to vent our frustrations. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just venting my frustration in the lack of anything positive which might help us deal with the situation.
> And if anyone is going to snipe at my comment, please don't. It's support and a hug I need now, not even more to worry about.


I'll offer you a virtual hug x


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Ralph refused to follow the self distancing rules. So I put him behind bars...
> 
> View attachment 435921


:Jawdrop I wonder how long it will take him to escape. Not long I hope


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I'll offer you a virtual hug x


Thank you. Very much appreciated


----------



## Sacrechat

Cully said:


> Thank goodness for something lighthearted, and not a round of political sniping. This thread was very useful and interesting once, but now seems just a place to vent our frustrations. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just venting my frustration in the lack of anything positive which might help us deal with the situation.
> And if anyone is going to snipe at my comment, please don't. It's support and a hug I need now, not even more to worry about.


Hugs!


----------



## Cully

Sacremist said:


> Hugs!


Right back at ya


----------



## SusieRainbow

Here's a big squishy hug from me and licky love from the mini hounds! XXXX


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> :Jawdrop I wonder how long it will take him to escape. Not long I hope


About 3 minutes....


----------



## Lurcherlad

I've been banished to the car park for 4+ hours (thanks to the virus) while OH has his chemo.

Armed with sandwiches and a flask of coffee ..... still no need to let standards slip.....enjoying my coffee in one of my late mum's china cups from her wedding set - well over 60 years old now


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-resigns-mauro-ferrari-covid-19-a9454551.html

The EU's top scientist has resigned and criticised the bloc's response to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Professor Mauro Ferrari, president of the European Research Council, said he was "extremely disappointed by the European response to Covid-19".

The Professor had only been in post at the helm of the EU's main scientific body since 1 January, where he was due to serve a four-year term.

"I arrived at the ERC a fervent supporter of the EU [but] the Covid-19 crisis completely changed my views, though the ideals of international collaboration I continue to support with enthusiasm," he said in a statement.

The chief scientist had tried and failed to convince the ERC to set up a special programme to fight the coronavirus pandemic, but the proposal was unanimously rejected by its governing body.


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Thank goodness for something lighthearted, and not a round of political sniping. This thread was very useful and interesting once, but now seems just a place to vent our frustrations. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just venting my frustration in the lack of anything positive which might help us deal with the situation.
> And if anyone is going to snipe at my comment, please don't. It's support and a hug I need now, not even more to worry about.


There you go. 

I must confess to being more shouty at my poor dogs. Being able to book grocery deliveries has been a huge weight lifted thanks to ASDA and feel more able to cope with lock down now.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been banished to the car park for 4+ hours (thanks to the virus) while OH has his chemo.
> 
> Armed with sandwiches and a flask of coffee ..... still no need to let standards slip.....enjoying my coffee in one of my late mum's china cups from her wedding set - well over 60 years old now
> 
> View attachment 435941


They say tea always tastes better in a china cup. Well my mum and nan did. Is it the same for coffee too?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> They say tea always tastes better in a china cup. Well my mum and nan did. Is it the same for coffee too?


I'd say yes - definitely compared to the plastic one that usually comes with a flask.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been banished to the car park for 4+ hours (thanks to the virus) while OH has his chemo.
> 
> Armed with sandwiches and a flask of coffee ..... still no need to let standards slip.....enjoying my coffee in one of my late mum's china cups from her wedding set - well over 60 years old now
> 
> View attachment 435941


Quite right too!

I took my morning coffee up to the top of the garden and sat under the walnut tree listening to the birds and watching the world go by!


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been banished to the car park for 4+ hours (thanks to the virus) while OH has his chemo.
> 
> Armed with sandwiches and a flask of coffee ..... still no need to let standards slip.....enjoying my coffee in one of my late mum's china cups from her wedding set - well over 60 years old now
> 
> View attachment 435941


I guess that's one advantage of radiotherapy, it's a lot quicker. For the last couple of weeks we arrive, park up and sit in the car until my phone rings from oncology to call me in. By the time I get to the room the table is set up for me and it's just a matter of strapping my leg down in place and moving me around to exactly the right position. I've got so good at it now that I more or less lie in exactly the right way. Then measurements are taken to put the table in the right position then I'm ready. The radiotherapy takes about a minute to do, if I'm having a scan then it's another minute. Then I'm let free and can quickly get dressed and scoot off. About 20 minutes all told


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> There you go.
> 
> I must confess to being more shouty at my poor dogs. Being able to book grocery deliveries had been a huge weight lifted thanks to ASDA and feel more able to cope with lock down now.


Thank you. I know how you feel. I was relieved to actually find a vacant slot on Iceland yesterday so jumped at it, not caring when it was for. It was for today :Jawdrop, so I've had to squish everything in my freezer and remove what packaging I can. I've taken stuff out which I'll be using between now until the weekend and put it in the coolest part of the fridge.
I'll look more carefully at the dates next time as it's the second time I've done this in my haste to book a slot before someone else nicks it.


----------



## O2.0

We were sat at dinner last night when all our phones went off with an alert - work or home directive from the governor. Still no shelter in place order, but an order that you can only leave home in order to:
- go to work
- get essential goods or services
- excederse
- visit family

And I think the exercise one was worded as 'recreational' activities, I'll have to look it up. And visit family is wide open. So still not very stringent restrictions at all. 
That said, roads are much more quiet than usual, stores are not crowded, and people seem to be doing a good job keeping appropriate distances. We're not at the beaches or resort areas though, I think that's where most of the problems have been. 

I don't know about anyone else, but these ever changing orders are giving me an odd sense of urgency. As if I have to do things NOW because there might not be an opportunity later. My laptop screen broke and I had to send it off (manufacturing defect) and I felt like I had to hurry up and go to the UPS store before it too was closed. And since I was out, should probably top off on food, I could have waited until this weekend probably, but I felt that sense of urgency to get it done now. 
Even silly things like laundry. I was frantically washing dog blankets because in my head it had to get done before... something, but I don't know what that something is.

I'm not hoarding food - yet  but I'm starting to understand that feeling of needing to


----------



## Lurcherlad

Magyarmum said:


> Quite right too!
> 
> I took my morning coffee up to the top of the garden and sat under the walnut tree listening to the birds and watching the world go by!


I've got my slippers on too!
Plus 2 cushions and a fleece in case I get bored and fancy a nap 

Have sandwiches, fruit and a sweet snack, mints, water, magazines and 2 novels downloaded on my iPhone plus a 3cd old soul sounds set for the in car stereo.

Never let it be said I'm not prepared 

And before anyone asks ...... as I'm in isolation and can't use public facilities ..... yes I've got a handy receptacle in the car, just in case! 

I'm a Virgo - be prepared


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> I'm not hoarding food - yet  but I'm starting to understand that feeling of needing to


Is there a difference between stockpiling and hoarding? Is one OK and the other not? I definitely think it can't hurt to keep cupboards topped up rather than let them run down. There's already concern here that the normal labour force won't be available to harvest fresh produce and I can see the price of everything going up if shortages occur.


----------



## lorilu

MilleD said:


> Not strictly virus related, but could be when the cupboards start running a bit low:


I had that for supper just the other night. Beans on one slice, apple sauce on the other. It was delicious.


----------



## Cully

I feel the same way too about certain things. I need to get up early and use our laundry room so I don't meet anyone. I spend a frantic 15 minutes checking the online supermarkets 3 times a day to see if there's a spare slot for delivery and feel the need to rush. If I see someone and stop to have a few words (observing the 2m rule) I feel the need to rush the conversation to lessen the chance of the virus jumping on me. I really must learn to slow down.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> I've got my slippers on too!
> Plus 2 cushions and a fleece in case I get bored and fancy a nap
> 
> Have sandwiches, fruit and a sweet snack, mints, water, magazines and 2 novels downloaded on my iPhone plus a 3cd old soul sounds set for the in car stereo.
> 
> Never let it be said I'm not prepared
> 
> And before anyone asks ...... as I'm in isolation and can't use public facilities ..... yes I've got a handy receptacle in the car, just in case!
> 
> I'm a Virgo - be prepared


Were you ever a girl guide?:Smuggrin


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> Is there a difference between stockpiling and hoarding? Is one OK and the other not? I definitely think it can't hurt to keep cupboards topped up rather than let them run down. There's already concern here that the normal labour force won't be available to harvest fresh produce and I can see the price of everything going up if shortages occur.


LOL I don't know! 
I think hoarding implies food tucked away to not be used at all. I live with two teenagers, food disappears at a frightening rate. So yeah, I guess I'm not hoarding, just trying to keep the cupboards full-ish.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been banished to the car park for 4+ hours (thanks to the virus) while OH has his chemo.
> 
> Armed with sandwiches and a flask of coffee ..... still no need to let standards slip.....enjoying my coffee in one of my late mum's china cups from her wedding set - well over 60 years old now
> 
> View attachment 435941


Are they still charging parking fee.....


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Ralph refused to follow the self distancing rules. So I put him behind bars...
> 
> View attachment 435921


What a beautiful boy Ralph is and he has such a lovely face


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> Were you ever a girl guide?:Smuggrin


Yep, and a Brownie and a Beaver Leader!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Are they still charging parking fee.....


No. Not for anyone today - barrier is locked up.

Usually, on treatment days though chemo patients get their parking free


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> Are they still charging parking fee.....


Can't say for other users but my parking is free for the duration of the treatment


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I've got my slippers on too!
> Plus 2 cushions and a fleece in case I get bored and fancy a nap
> 
> Have sandwiches, fruit and a sweet snack, mints, water, magazines and 2 novels downloaded on my iPhone plus a 3cd old soul sounds set for the in car stereo.
> 
> Never let it be said I'm not prepared
> 
> And before anyone asks ...... as I'm in isolation and can't use public facilities ..... yes I've got a handy receptacle in the car, just in case!
> 
> I'm a Virgo - be prepared


Being a Virgo explains everything!

I'm one too and when I go out I'll take everything I might just remotely need, apart from the kitchen sink

Got to be prepared for all eventualities, we Virgos


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Yep, and a Brownie and a Beaver Leader!


Thought so :Hilarious.


----------



## MilleD

Ah crap.

Just had a text from my GP saying I need to stay indoors completely for 12 weeks from _now_!

That can't be right?

I know that I'm vulnerable to getting ill from this as I have asthma, but it's well controlled asthma. Not 'severe' as in the guidelines for who comes under the 'shielding' banner.

I can't stay in the house for 12 weeks, it'll send me strange(er).

Mind you the letter doesn't say you aren't allowed out in your garden like some people have been saying.

I really don't know what to do about this....


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but these ever changing orders are giving me an odd sense of urgency. As if I have to do things NOW because there might not be an opportunity later. My laptop screen broke and I had to send it off (manufacturing defect) and I felt like I had to hurry up and go to the UPS store before it too was closed. And since I was out, should probably top off on food, I could have waited until this weekend probably, but I felt that sense of urgency to get it done now.
> Even silly things like laundry. I was frantically washing dog blankets because in my head it had to get done before... something, but I don't know what that something is.
> 
> I'm not hoarding food - yet  but I'm starting to understand that feeling of needing to


I am feeling that too. It's some small comfort to know it's....normal..so to speak. Thank you for posting this. I generally live my life stocked up for a month in advance on non perishables and paper products, always have. But even so, I find myself scanning the cupboard wondering if things that I might run out of in a month will be there when I need them. For instance, I had ACV on the list when I went to the store on Monday morning. There wasn't any.

I am limiting my grocery shop to once every 14 days now. I have enough for now, but what if there isn't any next time I go either?


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Thank you. I know how you feel. I was relieved to actually find a vacant slot on Iceland yesterday so jumped at it, not caring when it was for. It was for today :Jawdrop, so I've had to squish everything in my freezer and remove what packaging I can. I've taken stuff out which I'll be using between now until the weekend and put it in the coolest part of the fridge.
> I'll look more carefully at the dates next time as it's the second time I've done this in my haste to book a slot before someone else nicks it.


I had one delivery with Iceland and couldnt get another. They go in seconds !


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> Just had a text from my GP saying I need to stay indoors completely for 12 weeks from _now_!


12 weeks?! That's until July! Surely by then we'll have better testing protocols in place, antibody tests too...


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> Ah crap.
> 
> Just had a text from my GP saying I need to stay indoors completely for 12 weeks from _now_!
> 
> That can't be right?
> 
> I know that I'm vulnerable to getting ill from this as I have asthma, but it's well controlled asthma. Not 'severe' as in the guidelines for who comes under the 'shielding' banner.
> 
> I can't stay in the house for 12 weeks, it'll send me strange(er).
> 
> Mind you the letter doesn't say you aren't allowed out in your garden like some people have been saying.
> 
> I really don't know what to do about this....


The text I got yesterday from the Government and the advice was to stay indoors for 12 weeks as I was in the high risk group. I have already been inside nearly 2 or 3 weeks I think it is as I decided to self isolate. I have been sent a letter as well according to the text so I am awaiting this.

The problem is everyone is supposed to be staying in unless you necessarily have to go out to the shops, pharmacy or for a walk, run or bike ride.

I can see this lockdown lasting longer to be honest.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> The text I got yesterday from the Government and the advice was to stay indoors for 12 weeks as I was in the high risk group. I have already been inside nearly 2 or 3 weeks I think it is as I decided to self isolate.
> 
> The problem is everyone is supposed to be staying in unless you necessarily have to go out to the shops, pharmacy or for a walk, run or bike ride.
> 
> I can see this lockdown lasting longer to be honest.


It says 12 weeks from today. Do I just assume the text is late?


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> It says 12 weeks from today. Do I just assume the text is late?


I had the assumption that the 12 weeks I was informed of started yesterday as that is when I got the text.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> I had the assumption that the 12 weeks I was informed of started yesterday as that is when I got the text.




I might call my docs. I'm pretty sure I'm a mistake....


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> 12 weeks?! That's until July! Surely by then we'll have better testing protocols in place, antibody tests too...


I know right?!


----------



## lorilu

Bertie'sMum said:


> Just back from my local Sainsburys - queue in the car park for the "oldies hour" was a lot longer than last week as more of us are trying to keep to our allotted time. But still was in and out in 40 minutes with all that I wanted - even eggs ! *I did try to get some of the queue interested in doing some exercises whilst we waited to go in (thereby combining our once a day exercise with our allowed outing for essentials*) but no takers !


Darn,I would have joined in with that! Sounds like fun besides!


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Ah crap.
> 
> Just had a text from my GP saying I need to stay indoors completely for 12 weeks from _now_!
> 
> That can't be right?
> 
> I know that I'm vulnerable to getting ill from this as I have asthma, but it's well controlled asthma. Not 'severe' as in the guidelines for who comes under the 'shielding' banner.
> 
> I can't stay in the house for 12 weeks, it'll send me strange(er).
> 
> Mind you the letter doesn't say you aren't allowed out in your garden like some people have been saying.
> 
> I really don't know what to do about this....


This is what I don't understand. We've all read and heard about the lockdown that those who are 'extremely vulnerable' need to adhere to, but there seems to be a grey area for those of us who are vulnerable but don't fall into the 'extremely' group.
I'm in my 60's, get called for a 'flu jab every year, have diabetes, high blood pressure and hay fever which makes my chest feel tight. I also have mobility issues which mean going out shopping is a problem. So I think I should be in a vulnerable group to enable me to get shopping delivery slots. 
I'm not saying I'm more important than others, just that there are a lot of us in this grey area and we need some proper guidelines because everything/everyone I've read or heard seems to have a different view, or is simply not listening.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> This is what I don't understand. We've all read and heard about the lockdown that those who are 'extremely vulnerable' need to adhere to, but there seems to be a grey area for those of us who are vulnerable but don't fall into the 'extremely' group.
> I'm in my 60's, get called for a 'flu jab every year, have diabetes, high blood pressure and hay fever which makes my chest feel tight. I also have mobility issues which mean going out shopping is a problem. So I think I should be in a vulnerable group to enable me to get shopping delivery slots.
> I'm not saying I'm more important than others, just that there are a lot of us in this grey area and we need some proper guidelines because everything/everyone I've read or heard seems to have a different view, or is simply not listening.


See you sound more vulnerable than me. Diabetes and high blood pressure must top trump mild asthma mustn't it?

I really don't consider myself to be in the extremely vulnerable group.


----------



## Sacrechat

My husband has asthma and emphysema and he still hasn’t received a letter from the government or the GP, unless it’s because he’s older than 70 so they automatically assume he will know he is vulnerable, but it does make me wonder what the hell is going on.

As for stockpiling, I didn’t panic buy at the start, but due to not being able to get a delivery slot and the difficulty getting hold of non-perishable items, I won’t lie. I’ve bought the maximum of everything I can this week with my Ocado delivery and I’ve spent a fortune, most of which arrived, so I now have a dining table full of non perishable goods. I didn’t want to do it, but I feel forced into doing because of other people.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Thank goodness for something lighthearted, and not a round of political sniping. This thread was very useful and interesting once, but now seems just a place to vent our frustrations. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just venting my frustration in the lack of anything positive which might help us deal with the situation.
> And if anyone is going to snipe at my comment, please don't. It's support and a hug I need now, not even more to worry about.


Hugs Cully. Sending this fella to cheer you up
















Oops, one should have deleted but he's determined to bring a smile to your face!


----------



## Cully

Like you with your asthma, my diabetes and hypertension are controlled by meds, but these can all fluctuate due to stress and anxiety etc, ergo, are potentially severe in those circumstances.
I think you should just be thankful that you are being given the chance to isolate yourself with government approval. You are likely to be prioritised for shopping deliveries and any other assistance you my require. So take it while you can.
Don't forget, once this lockdown ends it doesn't mean we can all breathe a sigh of relief and get back to our old lives. The way I'm reading it is that once the number of new cases and deaths start to fall, it only means that we have managed to keep the numbers low enough to enable the NHS to cope. Once people start being allowed more freedom to socialise (shopping, going to work, children back at school, businesses return to work), that just means there could well be a new wave of cases and deaths. It means that people with no immunity will now be able to be infected. But it also means that the NHS will be able to manage this new wave with less strain on resources than was caused by the first overwhelming number of cases. 
Hopefully the virus will begin to lose it's strength as time goes by and most people will just have a really mild illness, as with the viruses we are used to, like the common cold.
I wish with all my heart that the scientists will come up with a vaccine soon. That's my biggest wish at the moment.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> Hugs Cully. Sending this fella to cheer you up
> 
> View attachment 435977
> View attachment 435977
> 
> Oops, one should have deleted but he's determined to bring a smile to your face!


He's a charmer isn't he?:Nailbiting


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> He's a charmer isn't he?:Nailbiting


Smile! Or else he'll go round in person:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Just had a text from my GP saying I need to stay indoors completely for 12 weeks from _now_!
> 
> That can't be right?
> 
> I know that I'm vulnerable to getting ill from this as I have asthma, but it's well controlled asthma. Not 'severe' as in the guidelines for who comes under the 'shielding' banner.


Maybe the criteria are changing as they gather more data. There does seem to be a second wave of this advice being sent out.


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH got his text yesterday.

We had contact from Asda re a priority slot last week via govt website registration but nothing from any others.

I guess it just takes time to identify and reach everybody.

Anyone who is very vulnerable and struggling to find help, I advise contacting your local Councillor and MP who should be able to point you in the right direction for local assistance groups.


----------



## Bisbow

Sacremist said:


> My husband has asthma and emphysema and he still hasn't received a letter from the government or the GP, unless it's because he's older than 70 so they automatically assume he will know he is vulnerable, but it does make me wonder what the hell is going on.
> 
> .


I am 79 and have CODP and asthma and had a letter after I filled in a questionnaire about my self and, on a government web site I think, check it out he should have got something
Yesterday I got a food parcel delivered because of my vunerabilty so he should get that as well
Chase it up with your Dr


----------



## Sacrechat

Lurcherlad said:


> OH got his text yesterday.
> 
> We had contact from Asda re a priority slot last week via govt website registration but nothing from any others.
> 
> I guess it just takes time to identify and reach everybody.
> 
> Anyone who is very vulnerable and struggling to find help, I advise contacting your local Councillor and MP who should be able to point you in the right direction for local assistance groups.


My GP has just given me the telephone number of our local group so I've registered hubby with them, so hopefully we will get some assistance if we can't get anything. I can't get any milk for love nor money!


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> We had contact from Asda re a priority slot last week via govt website registration but nothing from any others.


My DIL got her letter quite early but isn't recognised by any of the supermarkets as being a priority. I have to do her shopping and drive 20 miles to drop it at her gate. When all's said and done this relies on human beings extracting the data at GP level and it being transferred and logged correctly all the way up the chain. Plenty of room for error and some are bound to fall through the cracks.


----------



## Sacrechat

Bisbow said:


> I am 79 and have CODP and asthma and had a letter after I filled in a questionnaire about my self and, on a government web site I think, check it out he should have got something
> Yesterday I got a food parcel delivered because of my vunerabilty so he should get that as well
> Chase it up with your Dr


Thank you I have just phoned them. Other than giving me the council helpline, they weren't much help. I was talking to them for 25 minutes. The receptionist at first just kept saying: "I don't know; I only work here". I suggested she go and talk to someone who does know, that's when I got the council number. I have registered my husband on the government website, but only Ocado and Sainsbury's have responded so far. Still can't get a delivery from Sainsbury's and Ocado, the thieving swines, are now charging £6.99 for a Wednesday delivery that used to be free all day. What I really need is access to ASDA or Tesco.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> See you sound more vulnerable than me. Diabetes and high blood pressure must top trump mild asthma mustn't it?


Covid-19 goes after the lungs, though. That's why there's such a high need for ventilators.

The reason there have been delays between the initial messages going out and these later waves is that GPs and hospital doctors have been reviewing patient lists/histories and making decisions as to who else should be told to shield for 12 weeks. I assume that is what has just happened for you.


----------



## lullabydream

@MilleD I know 2 people who are a shielding a third got a text, all from the NHS, and phoned his consultant at the hospital. Although he had major heart problems 3 years ago he is fit healthy, has missed a day at work. Is appointment being signed off completely from seeing the cardiologist. His cardiologist has presumed all people under a cardiologist at his GP surgery has been put forward to the government. Simple database search hence why he got classed as vulnerable. His cardiologist isn't worried and so therefore he's not shielding.

I would as already as suggested phone your GP. I would think it's a mistake to be honest having mild asthma myself too. No one knows how they wild be affected to be honest, from looking at figures. I can only say your GP may be suggesting this because of the second wave of people put forward now but am sure that again would be from the government not GP surgeries, but are they doing it to help?


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. What would you do with half a trolley load of lemon yoghurt?!? I so wanted to ask the buyer. I braved the supermarket as they’re closed for Easter, Thursday to Tuesday. It was fine, not much veg in but everything else was normal.

I’m sure I shouldn’t be going out but I’ve no choice as no delivery here. I’m registered at Spanish drs but have no idea if they even do the 12 week thing. 

The other problem I’m worrying about is face masks, there seems to be a lot of pressure to make it compulsory to wear one but I can’t breathe using them. I don’t want to get in trouble but I can only just about breathe in a mask if sitting down, walking is nearly impossible. It’s really hard hearing people too and of course I can’t be heard through a mask. I guess I’ll have to have a sign to wave at people *I can’t wear a mask*


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> @MilleD I know 2 people who are a shielding a third got a text, all from the NHS, and phoned his consultant at the hospital. Although he had major heart problems 3 years ago he is fit healthy, has missed a day at work. Is appointment being signed off completely from seeing the cardiologist. His cardiologist has presumed all people under a cardiologist at his GP surgery has been put forward to the government. Simple database search hence why he got classed as vulnerable. His cardiologist isn't worried and so therefore he's not shielding.
> 
> I would as already as suggested phone your GP. I would think it's a mistake to be honest having mild asthma myself too. No one knows how they wild be affected to be honest, from looking at figures. I can only say your GP may be suggesting this because of the second wave of people put forward now but am sure that again would be from the government not GP surgeries, but are they doing it to help?


The text said it was from the GP and was signed off as my surgery.

The only thing I can think is that they are trawling folks that take certain meds perhaps? The combined inhaler I'm on I think is normally for those with more severe symptoms, but I got put on it when the docs (despite going to asthma clinics) realised I wasn't really on the correct preventer and my asthma at the time wasn't very well controlled.

I was initially told I would only be on it for 3 months but it's been over 12 now. Maybe that's why.

I will see if I can contact them. Mind you, that's nigh on impossible when there isn't a pandemic going on...


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> In Spain. What would you do with half a trolley load of lemon yoghurt?!? I so wanted to ask the buyer. I braved the supermarket as they're closed for Easter, Thursday to Tuesday. It was fine, not much veg in but everything else was normal.
> 
> I'm sure I shouldn't be going out but I've no choice as no delivery here. I'm registered at Spanish drs but have no idea if they even do the 12 week thing.
> 
> The other problem I'm worrying about is face masks, there seems to be a lot of pressure to make it compulsory to wear one but I can't breathe using them. I don't want to get in trouble but I can only just about breathe in a mask if sitting down, walking is nearly impossible. It's really hard hearing people too and of course I can't be heard through a mask. I guess I'll have to have a sign to wave at people *I can't wear a mask*


Can you get masks there? They are difficult to get here now, even the care givers are struggling to get them. Some are just having to make their own which can't possibly be good enough.
I do sympathise though, as I know they can be uncomfortable. I hyperventilate if I have to wear one as I'm claustophobic.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> The text said it was from the GP and was signed off as my surgery.
> 
> The only thing I can think is that they are trawling folks that take certain meds perhaps? The combined inhaler I'm on I think is normally for those with more severe symptoms, but I got put on it when the docs (despite going to asthma clinics) realised I wasn't really on the correct preventer and my asthma at the time wasn't very well controlled.
> 
> I was initially told I would only be on it for 3 months but it's been over 12 now. Maybe that's why.
> 
> I will see if I can contact them. Mind you, that's nigh on impossible when there isn't a pandemic going on...


I think you are on the same inhaler as me which I ended up on coincidently after my asthma became out of control after having a chest infection. I have been on it 10 years!... That was after lots of trying different inhalers at the time!


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> @MilleD I know 2 people who are a shielding a third got a text, all from the NHS, and phoned his consultant at the hospital. Although he had major heart problems 3 years ago he is fit healthy, has missed a day at work. Is appointment being signed off completely from seeing the cardiologist. His cardiologist has presumed all people under a cardiologist at his GP surgery has been put forward to the government. Simple database search hence why he got classed as vulnerable. His cardiologist isn't worried and so therefore he's not shielding.
> 
> I would as already as suggested phone your GP. I would think it's a mistake to be honest having mild asthma myself too. No one knows how they wild be affected to be honest, from looking at figures. I can only say your GP may be suggesting this because of the second wave of people put forward now but am sure that again would be from the government not GP surgeries, but are they doing it to help?


My GP practice say they haven't sent anything to the government about people who should be self isolating. I asked how the government knows who should or shouldn't be in isolation and I was told they had no idea, but it was on medical record. So I asked how do they access those medical records only to be told once again that she doesn't know, but the criteria is quite strict, so only people who have needed hospital admission in the last 12 months would be on the list. I asked, if that's true how come someone with asthma that has it well under control has received a letter; again the response was "I don't know". It was like talking to Worzel Gummidge, she clearly had her brain dead head on today!


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> My GP practice say they haven't sent anything to the government about people who should be self isolating. I asked how the government knows who should or shouldn't be in isolation and I was told they had no idea, but it was on medical record. So I asked how do they access those medical records only to be told once again that she doesn't know, but the criteria is quite strict, so only people who have needed hospital admission in the last 12 months would be on the list. I asked, if that's true how come someone with asthma that has it well under control has received a letter; again the response was "I don't know". It was like talking to Worzel Gummidge, she clearly had her brain dead head on today!


Well it obviously must be pot luck. The cardiologist said to my this person it would have been the GP who put his name forward.
It includes transplant patients, so that shouldn't be criteria in the last 12 month.. It's all a bit odd.


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Well it obviously must be pot luck. The cardiologist said to my this person it would have been the GP who put his name forward.
> It includes transplant patients, so that shouldn't be criteria in the last 12 month.. It's all a bit odd.


There's just no consistency at all.


----------



## mrs phas

got my government phone call this morning
offerring me a free weekly food parcel, and, for my meds to be picked up and delivered
not sure if matt will get one too, 
but
ve told him if he does, to say we dont need two food parcels and to ask if they can add his pick up to my pick up, they both come out on the same day
so it seems stupid to have two volunteer's time to be taken up,
delivering to the same address on the same day


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Well it obviously must be pot luck. The cardiologist said to my this person it would have been the GP who put his name forward


I understood it originated from GPs, only because I caught a GP saying so on tv. They were saying it wasn't that easy a task and took time. Maybe some are notifying patients but not putting the details up to the govt database or vice versa so it's pot luck how you're notified and what support is available.


----------



## havoc

Just had something put a smile on my face - household across the road has just had a delivery from Majestic (wines). The liveried van was driven by a driver in a turqoise t-shirt with wine glass motif which for some reason cheers me up. Nice to know it's still possible to get a delivery slot for some essentials.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> yes, why


I think because others have different wording and aren't told that. Now we're on the subject of working out what originates from where it's of interest.


----------



## mrs phas

well heres a newspaper report on it
seems some of us got a rogue text

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/people-reassured-can-go-garden-18061660

so not lieing
misinformation


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> Was it you who said you weren't allowed in the garden and only to open a window in 'the text'?


Might be a local varient - my mum had a shielding letter and is still gardening merrily as the letter says it's fine. The NHS template letter (here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...2020/03/at-risk-patient-letter-march-2020.pdf) recommends going in the garden:

_*Looking after your mental well-being*
We understand that this may be a worrying time and you may find staying at home and having limited contact frustrating. At times like these, it can be easy to fall into 
4unhealthypatterns of behaviour, which can make you feel worse. Simple things you can do to stay mentally and physically active during this time include:
_

_look for ideas for exercises to do at home on the NHS website _
_spend time doing things you enjoy -reading, cooking and other indoor hobbies _
_try to eat healthy, well-balanced meals, drink enough water, exercise regularly, and try to avoid smoking, alcohol and recreational drugs_
_try spending time with the windows open to let in fresh air, arranging space to sit and see a nice view (if possible) and get some natural sunlight. *Get out into the garden* or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others._

The Public Health England shielding guidance (here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...asy_read_guidance_on_shielding_March_2020.pdf) says:
_
(big green tick image) go outside into the garden, or get some sunlight
_
And the NHS England Q&A on shielding (here https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi.../52/2020/03/20200402-FAQs-Patients-vFINAL.pdf) says:

_*Q8: If I am 'shielding' and must stay at home, can I still go outside, in the garden?*
A8: As set out in the Public Health England guidance, people should "try spending time with the windows open to let in the fresh air, arranging space to sit and see a nice view (if possible) and get some natural sunlight, or get out into any private space, keeping at least 2 metres away from your neighbours and household members if you are sitting on your doorstep"_

So going in the garden is fine!


----------



## mrs phas

And here's the rogue text I received see where it says
*you can open a window, but do not leave your home*
And, I had forgotten about the stay 3 steps away from anyone else sharing your home

NHS Coronavirus Service: We have identified that you're someone at risk of severe illness if you catch Coronavirus. Please remain at home for a minimum of 12 weeks. Home is the safest place for you. Staying in helps you stay well and that will help the NHS too. You can open a window but do not leave your home, and stay 3 steps away from others indoors. Wash your hands more often, for at least 20 seconds.

Read more advice about staying safe at home.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable-guidance

We will send you more messages with information.

To opt out reply STOP


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> I wonder who did send them if it wasn't the nhs or the government.


It could have been semi official. If you look at the official wording it only takes some idiot to read the first part of a sentence and rush to put that out as 'official' guidance. We're not short of people in all walks of life who just LOVE the idea of making everything as miserable as possible.
_try spending time with the windows open to let in fresh air, arranging space to sit and see a nice view (if possible) and get some natural sunlight. *Get out into the garden* or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others.
_


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> It could have been semi official. If you look at the official wording it only takes some idiot to read the first part of a sentence and rush to put that out as 'official' guidance. We're not short of people in all walks of life who just LOVE the idea of making everything as miserable as possible.
> _try spending time with the windows open to let in fresh air, arranging space to sit and see a nice view (if possible) and get some natural sunlight. *Get out into the garden* or sit on your doorstep if you can, keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others._


Did you read the header?
NHS coronavirus service
Sounds pretty official to me
Especially as I get a text message every day with updates


----------



## Jesthar

I suspect I'm the cause of this outburst, sorry. I replied to a previous comment a few days ago by saying it was not true that you couldn't go in your garden (as I have two doctors and a hospital designer in my immediate family, my mum has had the shielding letter and I'd read the template letter) 

Still, no time to dwell on it - I have to get to my Pilates class  (being held in my living room via Zoom video chat  The cats are going to be laughing!  )


----------



## havoc

Be fair. Everyone is interested in the rules on shielding, that's why it came up at all. The whole discussion had turned to who got what.


----------



## MilleD

If anyone wants to compare, this is the text from my GP. Any info about going outside our not is included in the letter linked to (passworded) in the text.


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> I suspect I'm the cause of this outburst, sorry. I replied to a previous comment a few days ago by saying it was not true that you couldn't go in your garden (as I have two doctors and a hospital designer in my immediate family, my mum has had the shielding letter and I'd read the template letter)
> 
> Still, no time to dwell on it - I have to get to my Pilates class  (being held in my living room via Zoom video chat  The cats are going to be laughing!  )


The cats are going to be joining in I think.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> The cats are going to be joining in I think.


My dog joins in with my twice weekly sessions with my PT. Mainly he tilts his head from side to side with a quizzical expression on his face though I do occasionally give surrepticious hand signals to make him join in and look more intelligent


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> If anyone wants to compare, this is the text from my GP. Any info about going outside our not is included in the letter linked to (passworded) in the text.
> 
> View attachment 435990


To follow on, I bloody do hope mine is fake as the last thing I want to do is stay in the house for 12 more weeks.

Haven't gone on my bike ride today as I want to call the surgery tomorrow and inform them of their error. If I can get through.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> My dog joins in with my twice weekly sessions with my PT. Mainly he tilts his head from side to side with a quizzical expression on his face though I do occasionally give surrepticious hand signals to make him join in and look more intelligent


It makes you wonder what is going through their heads


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> It makes you wonder what is going through their heads


Think he wonders what's going through mine more often


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> I understood it originated from GPs, only because I caught a GP saying so on tv. They were saying it wasn't that easy a task and took time. Maybe some are notifying patients but not putting the details up to the govt database or vice versa so it's pot luck how you're notified and what support is available.


Not all GPS have been notifying, some consultants have too. It must depend on the area. 
Knowledge from a GP whose frustrated that some more vulnerable patients, with no set diagnosis he would prefer to be shielded haven't got notification but maybe not under the right consultant currently. Plus some have been really upset being put under shielding when health has been great for X amount of years. So to the GP is not as great a risk. Plus of course this goes with the consultant updates too.

The government themselves said they were working with both. So am guessing it is down to records currently. Who has been contacted.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Not all GPS have been notifying, some consultants have too. It must depend on the area.


Are you saying in some areas GPs don't notify at all but consultants do or that it isn't only GPs?


----------



## SbanR

havoc said:


> My dog joins in with my twice weekly sessions with my PT. Mainly he tilts his head from side to side with a quizzical expression on his face though I do occasionally give surrepticious hand signals to make him join in and look more intelligent


Try using him as a training weight


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Are you saying in some areas GPs don't notify at all but consultants do or that it isn't only GPs?


ages ago, when our gp surgery went all 'make appointments online'
we ( matt and i) were asked if we wanted to fill out a form allowing our records to be shared with any health care services that might need to know
after making sure it wouldnt allow the dwp to access it ( it doesnt and the dwp already know too much about me) i was happy to sign this, as it meant addenbrookes, wsh and my gp were always in the loop about everything going on
I wonder, if others have had, and done, similar the National Covid service has been able to access it that way?
just a thought


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> To follow on, I bloody do hope mine is fake as the last thing I want to do is stay in the house for 12 more weeks.
> 
> Haven't gone on my bike ride today as I want to call the surgery tomorrow and inform them of their error. If I can get through.


Its not compulsory is it? I thought it was more advice and to make sure the very vulnerable get help with food drops etc, I would have thought if you feel its not appropriate for you that is your choice so long as you inform whoever you need to that you don't require food parcels. 
The whole thing with the shielding is confusing, some people are telling the over 70s they are not allowed out the house at all, yet if they haven't been identified as one of the 1.5 million then they wont get any extra help so may need to be out getting food and prescriptions. I know our local community hospital is telling everyone regardless of age they still need to have blood tests at the hospital there just isn't the community infrastructure to take blood at home for every over 70 year old or the vulnerable but not identified by the government.


----------



## Jobeth

https://digital.nhs.uk/coronavirus/shielded-patient-list

This explains the algorithm used and that the list has grown from 900,000 to 1.28 million. It also tells you what to do if you think you should, or should not, be on the list. It's why some people have found out later than others. You only get a text if you have given your number to the NHS but it says it is the letter that is the proof that you need.


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> Its not compulsory is it? I thought it was more advice and to make sure the very vulnerable get help with food drops etc, I would have thought if you feel its not appropriate for you that is your choice so long as you inform whoever you need to that you don't require food parcels.
> The whole thing with the shielding is confusing, some people are telling the over 70s they are not allowed out the house at all, yet if they haven't been identified as one of the 1.5 million then they wont get any extra help so may need to be out getting food and prescriptions. I know our local community hospital is telling everyone regardless of age they still need to have blood tests at the hospital there just isn't the community infrastructure to take blood at home for every over 70 year old or the vulnerable but not identified by the government.


My manager has told me it's right to take the advice given. Bet he'd be different if I couldn't work from home!

I just feel that if I ignored the advice and I ended up getting it, there'd be a load of folks saying "told you so!" and nodding wisely 

Best get the turbo trainer set up in the house :Angelic


----------



## MilleD

Jobeth said:


> https://digital.nhs.uk/coronavirus/shielded-patient-list
> 
> This explains the algorithm used and that the list has grown from 900,000 to 1.28 million. It also tells you what to do if you think you should, or should not, be on the list. It's why some people have found out later than others. You only get a text if you have given your number to the NHS but it says it is the letter that is the proof that you need.


This is really helpful, thank you.


----------



## Jobeth

https://nosycrow.com/blog/released-...x2l7cyZIMabDtFMyikvFZidxEnfxCYGAZg1jQHPfCEOQg

This free book has been released today for primary school children.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Are you saying in some areas GPs don't notify at all but consultants do or that it isn't only GPs?


It's not only GPS notifying, my GP surgery where my friend a GP works hasn't been asked to notify and has had a lot of worried patients ringing up asking yes. The government were saying they were asking both.

Obviously it depends what criteria is set..

I do know the NHS isn't all linked with records. Which obviously would make things so much easier for Dr's, consultants, A and E admissions. Bits here, there and everywhere.

So although they do communicate, there can be more detailed information in hospital records or GP records so it can all be very confusing to find someone's complete history. Especially if attended various hospitals. Which is more common than ever.


----------



## lorilu

Good news eh?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/boris-johnsons-condition-improving-coronavirus-70044300


----------



## HarlequinCat

lorilu said:


> Good news eh?
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/boris-johnsons-condition-improving-coronavirus-70044300


Good to hear


----------



## purringcats

lorilu said:


> Good news eh?
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/boris-johnsons-condition-improving-coronavirus-70044300


That is really good news. Let's hope he continues to improve.


----------



## mrs phas

lorilu said:


> Good news eh?
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/boris-johnsons-condition-improving-coronavirus-70044300


good to hear that


----------



## PFModerator

Closed for moderation as there have been several reports.


----------



## lorilu

PFModerator said:


> Closed for moderation as there have been several reports.


Please do let us have it back after the bickering is settled.


----------



## lymorelynn

This thread has now been edited but if the personal bickering continues it will be closed permanently.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> The cats are going to be joining in I think.


Charlie-girl stayed in the garden, Lorelei ended up on camera, though!


----------



## O2.0

lymorelynn said:


> it will be closed permanently


I certainly hope not! I have a feeling this thread has been an important life-line to many.
Emotions are very understandably high, I think just one or two upsets on the entire thread is a record of cordiality really!


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> I certainly hope not! I have a feeling this thread has been an important life-line to many.
> Emotions are very understandably high, I think just one or two upsets on the entire thread is a record of cordiality really!


Indeed. Scary times . lets stick together . Find the info very useful.


----------



## kittih

This is an interesting article about the history of pandemics and how covid 19 currently compares:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/history-of-pandemics-deadliest/


----------



## jasmine2

I bought lots of cat food and cat litter from Zooplus and pets at home. I’m worried it’s surface maybe contaminated with corona virus as lots of people touch it when it arrives through delivery services. I can’t wash it with detail or disinfectant wipes as it’s pet food and I’m worried I will breathe the virus through it’s surfaces as I’ve stored it in my living room and other rooms. I can’t go to the shop to buy it because of the lock down so I have been buying it in bulk through online pet stores. When I bought one 10 kg bag of dry cat food from eBay they sent it with out any packaging and I put it in the box room To keep it away as lots of people might have touched it while it was sent through post. I want to ask can I breathe in. the virus through pet food and large litter packages? I bought 20 litter bags as I have eight cats and one of my cats is expecting babies. They use lots of litter.


----------



## Guest

jasmine2 said:


> I bought lots of cat food and cat litter from Zooplus and pets at home. I'm worried it's surface maybe contaminated with corona virus as lots of people touch it when it arrives through delivery services. I can't wash it with detail or disinfectant wipes as it's pet food and I'm worried I will breathe the virus through it's surfaces as I've stored it in my living room and other rooms. I can't go to the shop to buy it because of the lock down so I have been buying it in bulk through online pet stores. When I bought one 10 kg bag of dry cat food from eBay they sent it with out any packaging and I put it in the box room To keep it away as lots of people might have touched it while it was sent through post. I want to ask can I breathe in. the virus through pet food and large litter packages? I bought 20 litter bags as I have eight cats and one of my cats is expecting babies. They use lots of litter.


Why can't you wipe the bags down?

As far as I'm aware they still say it can only survive up to 3 days on surfaces, so provided you leave it for a few days before touching it you should be fine. I don't think there's been any suggestion that the virus can become airborne from a surface.


----------



## Siskin

Seeing as this was on Facebook I don't know how true this is. Someone was warning that if you are buying from Amazon make sure you wipe surfaces down, dispose of of wrappings into another bag and wash hands carefully after use. According to this person the virus is rife in amazons warehouses. But this could easily be totally untrue and a load of rubbish

As @McKenzie has said, wipe over the surface with a soapy cloth and store it somewhere you don't use much. Three days is the maximum that the virus can survive on a surface and it will vary as to what material the surface is made of


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Seeing as this was on Facebook I don't know how true this is. Someone was warning that if you are buying from Amazon make sure you wipe surfaces down, dispose of of wrappings into another bag and wash hands carefully after use. According to this person the virus is rife in amazons warehouses. But this could easily be totally untrue and a load of rubbish
> 
> As @McKenzie has said, wipe over the surface with a soapy cloth and store it somewhere you don't use much. Three days is the maximum that the virus can survive on a surface and it will vary as to what material the surface is made of


I do this as a matter of course except with fridge food. Do it with post too Haven't worked out how to quarantine fridge food


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> According to this person the virus is rife in amazons warehouses. But this could easily be totally untrue and a load of rubbish


Depends what they mean by 'rife'. I would imagine it's no more or less than in any other very busy supply chain such as our supermarkets except Amazon warehouse employees aren't exposed to nearly the same risk as our supermarket cashiers have been - and those unsung heroes have kept smiling.


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> Depends what they mean by 'rife'. I would imagine it's no more or less than in any other very busy supply chain such as our supermarkets except Amazon warehouse employees aren't exposed to nearly the same risk as our supermarket cashiers have been - and those unsung heroes have kept smiling.


It's why I'm treating this with a healthy pinch of salt. Rumours abound on the Internet particularly Facebook.


----------



## Snoringbear

jasmine2 said:


> I bought lots of cat food and cat litter from Zooplus and pets at home. I'm worried it's surface maybe contaminated with corona virus as lots of people touch it when it arrives through delivery services. I can't wash it with detail or disinfectant wipes as it's pet food and I'm worried I will breathe the virus through it's surfaces as I've stored it in my living room and other rooms. I can't go to the shop to buy it because of the lock down so I have been buying it in bulk through online pet stores. When I bought one 10 kg bag of dry cat food from eBay they sent it with out any packaging and I put it in the box room To keep it away as lots of people might have touched it while it was sent through post. I want to ask can I breathe in. the virus through pet food and large litter packages? I bought 20 litter bags as I have eight cats and one of my cats is expecting babies. They use lots of litter.


In catering and food production, all food contact areas are routinely disinfected. However, you would use a commercial food grade disinfectant as opposed to domestic ones. Something like this would be fine on the surfaces in question https://www.citrus-cleaning-supplie.../Catering/Selgiene+Extreme+x+5+ltr/3327477923


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...ser_Text_Story1&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter

*Boots to close stores in Newcastle and Gateshead to redeploy pharmacists*
Local pharmacies remain open but Boots branches in retail parks and stations - including the Metrocentre and Newcastle Airport - are now shutting their doors


----------



## Magyarmum

McKenzie said:


> Why can't you wipe the bags down?
> 
> As far as I'm aware they still say it can only survive up to 3 days on surfaces, so provided you leave it for a few days before touching it you should be fine. I don't think there's been any suggestion that the virus can become airborne from a surface.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/worried-about-contaminated-groceries-how-to-be-safe

*Here's How to Clean Your Groceries During the COVID-19 Outbreak*


----------



## havoc

I'm not that bothered about contaminated groceries (or other deliveries) to be honest, certainly not anything I'm not going to use immediately. If it's going in the cupboard for use in days then any virus won't have survived by the time you go back to it. You have to handle stuff to wipe it down or put it away anyway so the important thing is still washing your hands. Things like deliveries from Zooplus have already been 'quarantined' in travel so I'm certainly not worried about the bags of cat litter I had delivered last week. Maybe the box stuff comes in should be subject to suspicion but in general it's far less risky than going out to buy from shops.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I'm not that bothered about contaminated groceries (or other deliveries) to be honest, certainly not anything I'm not going to use immediately. If it's going in the cupboard for use in days then any virus won't have survived by the time you go back to it. You have to handle stuff to wipe it down or put it away anyway so the important thing is still washing your hands. Things like deliveries from Zooplus have already been 'quarantined' in travel so I'm certainly not worried about the bags of cat litter I had delivered last week. Maybe the box stuff comes in should be subject to suspicion but in general it's far less risky than going out to buy from shops.


I had a box delivered by DHL the other day. It smelt like TCP, is it possible the delivery folks are disinfecting things?


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> I had a box delivered by DHL the other day. It smelt like TCP, is it possible the delivery folks are disinfecting things?


I'd imagine workers are doing everything they can to protect themselves on top of any company action. Whether it's effective or just makes them feel better I don't know but I do think both are important. We're all wound up and feel better if we feel we're 'doing something'.


----------



## Happy Paws2

To be honest, I've stopped worrying about everything I touch in the supermarket, as long as I use use a Dettol wipe on my hands and on my mobility scooter handles when I come out of Sainsbury's and wash my hands as soon as I get home. 

If I start worrying about everything else I wouldn't be able to go out.


----------



## kimthecat

Andrew Neil

@afneil
·
2hCoronavirus pandemic required global response. But WHO widely distrusted as in China's pocket and UN riven with dissension and self-doubt. So countries have gone their own way. Amazingly, UN Security Council will discuss the pandemic for 1st time today.

Who can we trust? 
On the news a Brit still living in China said he had the illness in November which is what the Chinese doctors were saying .
China saying theyve had no more deaths , I dont believe that.

Also the EU science chief resigned , countries saying the EU isnt doing enough.


----------



## Nonnie

Personally, i feel the risk of environmental contamination is tiny. I open packages immediately, dispose of boxes etc and then wash my hands.


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> If I start worrying about everything else I wouldn't be able to go out.


Exactly. There's cautious and there's paranoid. We're all so isolated it's easy to latch on to anything and think it will make a difference. Ask an 'expert' how to clean virus off groceries and they will give you an answer. That's very different to asking them if you *need* to clean your groceries.


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## Cully

[


Happy Paws2 said:


> To be honest, I've stopped worrying about everything I touch in the supermarket, as long as I use use a Dettol wipe on my hands and on my mobility scooter handles when I come out of Sainsbury's and wash my hands as soon as I get home. If I start worrying about everything else I wouldn't be able to go out.


How are staff treating you when you use your scooter to shop at the moment? I'm still isolating but know I'm going to have to face going shopping soon as I'm having so much difficulty getting delivery slots.
I've always taken a large bag into which to place my shopping as I go round the store. Then at the checkout I place the items on the belt, pay, and place them back in my bag. I've never had any problems. Will I still be able to do that or are there restrictions which wouldn't allow it? Be really interested to know.


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## Lurcherlad

From healthline.com

“If you’re concerned about potential contamination on your groceries, you can take additional steps to protect yourself.

“Some people may choose to wipe or wash cans and boxes of food before storing them to reduce possible virus content,” said Andress. You can also throw out disposable packaging.

When you’re done, she suggests that you wash any tables, countertops, or other surfaces that were touched by your groceries or grocery bags.

And wash your hands again.”

Pretty much what I’m doing - using a spray or several clean cloths that then go straight in the washing machine.

Fresh produce then gets washed again to remove the chemicals! 

Last thing always is another hand wash 

The Asda delivery man assured me they were all taking hand hygiene very seriously and all had antibac to use between all actions.

Unfortunately, they’re using lots of bags but they can be recycled eventually, I guess.




.


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## SusieRainbow

Lurcherlad said:


> Unfortunately, they're using lots of bags but they can be recycled eventually, I guess.


Although I've been very keen to cut down on single plastic use the current situation makes their use preferable in my opinion.
As you say it can all be recycled later.


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> Although I've been very keen to cut down on single plastic use the current situation makes their use preferable in my opinion.
> As you say it can all be recycled later.


I found the same too. I've cut down a lot on plastic but recently regret chucking out so much which would be useful at the moment.


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## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> [
> How are staff treating you when you use your scooter to shop at the moment? I'm still isolating but know I'm going to have to face going shopping soon as I'm having so much difficulty getting delivery slots.
> I've always taken a large bag into which to place my shopping as I go round the store. Then at the checkout I place the items on the belt, pay, and place them back in my bag. I've never had any problems. Will I still be able to do that or are there restrictions which wouldn't allow it? Be really interested to know.


I go down for "eldery hour" the staff are helpful if I need them. I do the same I've a large bag on one of the handles and my basket on the front, and manage to get all I need in them. I find the queue to the tills can be a challenge to find the end of them with out pushing in, but most people are very kind. I unpack and pack just the same as before.

So just carry on as you did before.


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## Sacrechat

I just wipe all my pet food with antibacterial wipes and did the same with my groceries. Due to having to pick the item up prior to wiping, I doubt I would clean off absolutely everything, but as others have said, the virus won’t live for ever on a surface. We just stored the non perishable items in the dining room out of the way and fridge food, although wiped before going into the fridge is just washed under the tap again before I open the packaging. I don’t think there’s much else anyone can do. If pet food was delivered with the food exposed, I wouldn’t have accepted it anyway.


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## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> Seeing as this was on Facebook I don't know how true this is. Someone was warning that if you are buying from Amazon make sure you wipe surfaces down, dispose of of wrappings into another bag and wash hands carefully after use. According to this person the virus is rife in amazons warehouses. But this could easily be totally untrue and a load of rubbish


I'd suspect these warnings are more likely to refer to Amazon USA than UK - working conditions in warehouses over there tend to be lower than here as employment law - well, there isn't a great deal of it, and a lot of what does exist favours the employer at the cost of the employee. Having too many sick days (and we're talking single digits here), for example, can get you fired, so employees are far more likely to go to work even when they know they are unwell, as they can't afford to stay home. There have also been reports that Amazon USA hasn't been providing PPE or sufficient hygiene measures.

That said, I am trying to avoid Amazon and supermarkets in favour of supporting small businesses wherever I can. There will always be far less people in the equation that way, and the smaller ones might not survive otherwise.


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## Magyarmum

I'm expecting a delivery today which will arrive in a box which I'll get the delivery man to leave on the porch. 

All I'll do is wipe the box down with a wet soapy cloth and open it but leave it to dry for half an hour. I'll wash my hands well after doing so and before I take anything out of the box. 

I'm not worried about the contents because they've probably been inside the box for two or three days.


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## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> I go down for "eldery hour" the staff are helpful if I need them. I do the same I've a large bag on one of the handles and my basket on the front, and manage to get all I need in them. I find the queue to the tills can be a challenge to find the end of them with out pushing in, but most people are very kind. I unpack and pack just the same as before.
> 
> So just carry on as you did before.


Thank you, that's helpful.


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## 1489253

Heather*** said:


> I stopped a mere week ago today. The difficulties in actually buying the things atm has made it much easier than it would've been in normal times. I have known I needed to give up for a long time in order to try and prevent sight loss through macular degeneration, but had been quite unable to do it until this came along.





Cully said:


> Well done. I know how hard it is. I quit 4 years ago but still get cravings if I smell someone else smoking. Stick to it, you wont regret it.


Thank you. I've now made it to two weeks without lapsing, even if I am eating more junk and have put a few pounds on. But the upside is that I'm not the annoying person at work or in the supermarket queue with the suspicious persistent cough any more, and don't worry so much about smokers cough masking symptoms of covid and making me more of a danger to others. Both those things are quite strong motivators for me - I can see myself in a few years time going "I'd never have quit if it wasn't for Covid!".


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## Cully

Heather*** said:


> Thank you. I've now made it to two weeks without lapsing, even if I am eating more junk and have put a few pounds on. But the upside is that I'm not the annoying person at work or in the supermarket queue with the suspicious persistent cough any more, and don't worry so much about smokers cough masking symptoms of covid and making me more of a danger to others. Both those things are quite strong motivators for me - I can see myself in a few years time going "I'd never have quit if it wasn't for Covid!".


Didn't think I'd ever hear someone having a good thing to say about the virus.


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## 1489253

havoc said:


> I'm not that bothered about contaminated groceries (or other deliveries) to be honest, certainly not anything I'm not going to use immediately. If it's going in the cupboard for use in days then any virus won't have survived by the time you go back to it. You have to handle stuff to wipe it down or put it away anyway so the important thing is still washing your hands. Things like deliveries from Zooplus have already been 'quarantined' in travel so I'm certainly not worried about the bags of cat litter I had delivered last week. Maybe the box stuff comes in should be subject to suspicion but in general it's far less risky than going out to buy from shops.


I agree about the box - a delivery person inadvertently left a long trail of either snot or drool on the box my pet food came in last week.


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## mrs phas

Did I just hear that RCVS (or it might've been just vets) are advising cat owners to keep cats indoors?
not due to us catching it from them, but them catching it from us and spreading it to other cats/animals


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## SusieRainbow

mrs phas said:


> Did I just hear that RCVS (or it might've been just vets) are advising cat owners to keep cats indoors?
> not due to us catching it from them, but them catching it from us and spreading it to other cats/animals


I heard that too, not sure of exact source. Easier said than done!


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> Did I just hear that RCVS (or it might've been just vets) are advising cat owners to keep cats indoors?
> not due to us catching it from them, but them catching it from us and spreading it to other cats/animals




Thankfully mine are indoors anyway. When we received our food delivery, my husband suggested leaving the plastic bags outside in the cat run till any chance of virus was gone. I said oh no you will not, I don't want them in the house or in the cat run, so he put them at the back of the shed.


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## purringcats

Pet owners who are infected with coronavirus or self-isolating have been told to keep their cats indoors amid evidence that domestic animals can be infected by Covid-19.

However, British Veterinary Association says 'owners should not worry' about animal-to-human transmission


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...indoors-vets-covid-19-dogs-pets-a9454226.html


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## O2.0

Gentle reminder to us all:


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## mrs phas

SusieRainbow said:


> I heard that too, not sure of exact source. Easier said than done!


Thank goodness someone else heard it
Would hate to be thought I'd be spreading half truths or suffering pandemic trauma

Having listened properly to the discussion regarding the advice, it's pointing towards those who have been told to self isolate, through text or letter, the vunerable and aged and those exhibiting symptoms

Not a popular position I know,
having seen, personally, how well cats can live inside, IF it's done from the minute you get your kitten
The sooner all cats come off the 'right to roam' list, the better
Cat proofing and catios are def the way to go
As so many of you have already found
You are definitely the peers I will look to when I finally get that sphynx I long for


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> Although I've been very keen to cut down on single plastic use the current situation makes their use preferable in my opinion.
> As you say it can all be recycled later.


California recently reversed the plastic bag ban, and now has banned re-usuable bags. It hasn't happened in reverse like that here yet. Our plastic bag ban only started in March.

Shop before last I bought a bunch of canned goods. I filled the sink with soapy hot water and tossed them all in, swished them around for a few minutes then rinsed them and sat them to dry before putting them away. Last shop was mostly boxed goods. I stacked everything downstairs on a shelf and just left them there for 3 days before putting them away.

The most important thing is don't touch your face and wash your hands constantly.

PS I read that New York State has an antibody test now. I can't find out much about it or how they are going to get everyone tested. I mean, for people who suspect they may have had a mild dose, are we a priority? I'd like very much to know, because I do think I already had it.


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## Elles

Don’t touch other people’s animals. Simples.


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## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> I just wipe all my pet food with antibacterial wipes and did the same with my groceries. Due to having to pick the item up prior to wiping, I doubt I would clean off absolutely everything, but as others have said, the virus won't live for ever on a surface. We just stored the non perishable items in the dining room out of the way and fridge food, although wiped before going into the fridge is just washed under the tap again before I open the packaging. I don't think there's much else anyone can do. If pet food was delivered with the food exposed, I wouldn't have accepted it anyway.


You need wipes that are anti viral, not antibacterial. Just check the packaging and make sure it mentions viruses too.


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## lorilu

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/health/tiger-cat-coronavirus-wellness/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNNi&utm_content=2020-04-07T10:20:12&fbclid=IwAR1iAIhLspcdvfdgHj4ZfijJzhOi8yXfj_T_YO6zF3aVOMJREsVkwZgdMWg

CNN article on cats and the virus. I am not going to worry about this.


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## havoc

I would suggest owners think about keeping their cats indoors if at all possible. Now it’s been shown they can carry the virus it’s just another reason for cat haters to act ‘inappropriately’. It doesn’t take much and this is the perfect excuse, the only saving grace being that those intent on harming animals shouldn’t be roaming the streets.


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## lorilu

How long did it take you to settle into a routine? It has taken me three weeks but I am finally starting to get the hang of it.


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## SbanR

lorilu said:


> PS I read that New York State has an antibody test now. I can't find out much about it


It would have to be reliable.
Only yesterday, on our daily update, they said they'd bought from several sources but none were sufficiently accurate. In fact, govt going to demand their money back


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## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> You need wipes that are anti viral, not antibacterial. Just check the packaging and make sure it mentions viruses too.


I will do, but I was also spraying the wipe with Dettol which has been said might remove virus as well.


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## SbanR

havoc said:


> I would suggest owners think about keeping their cats indoors if at all possible. Now it's been shown they can carry the virus it's just another reason for cat haters to act 'inappropriately'. It doesn't take much and this is the perfect excuse, the only saving grace being that those intent on harming animals shouldn't be roaming the streets.


Just heard on the Jeremy Vine show. Woman who helps in cat rescue said they had picked up 2 abandoned cats since the news broke that cats can catch the virus. She did say they can't prove those cats were abandoned because of the new info, but the timing was suspicious


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## Sacrechat

SbanR said:


> Just heard on the Jeremy Vine show. Woman who helps in cat rescue said they had picked up 2 abandoned cats since the news broke that cats can catch the virus. She did say they can't prove those cats were abandoned because of the new info, but the timing was suspicious


This just makes my blood boil! Heartless baskets.


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## Sacrechat




----------



## MilleD

SusieRainbow said:


> I heard that too, not sure of exact source. Easier said than done!


It was misreported and misquoted. More misinformation.


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## kittih

jasmine2 said:


> I bought lots of cat food and cat litter from Zooplus and pets at home. I'm worried it's surface maybe contaminated with corona virus as lots of people touch it when it arrives through delivery services. I can't wash it with detail or disinfectant wipes as it's pet food and I'm worried I will breathe the virus through it's surfaces as I've stored it in my living room and other rooms. I can't go to the shop to buy it because of the lock down so I have been buying it in bulk through online pet stores. When I bought one 10 kg bag of dry cat food from eBay they sent it with out any packaging and I put it in the box room To keep it away as lots of people might have touched it while it was sent through post. I want to ask can I breathe in. the virus through pet food and large litter packages? I bought 20 litter bags as I have eight cats and one of my cats is expecting babies. They use lots of litter.


As yet the non peer reviewed research indicates that the virus can survive up to 24 hours on cardboard (and therefore likely paper) and up to 3 days on plastics and non copper- metal.

Unless made into an aerosol or shaken from eg clothes etc the virus cannot become airborne or move onto other surfaces unless it is transferred by direct contact with another surface.

If a bag or item is plastic then I may wipe it with some surface cleaner. If it is not water proof then I leave it alone for 24 hours before I handle it in general. If I need to touch it prior to this eg moving it, unpacking it etc then I wash my hands thoroughly after wards.

OP as long as you washed your hands after moving the packages and the litter or food is in a non washable ie. absorbant container then just let it sit where it is for a day or so and you will be good. If it came in outer packaging via a delivery or postal service then it will have already had its quaruntine period during its journey through the postal system so you only need to consider the external packaging.

The amazon, postal or other delivery warehouse and delivery staff will present the same risk of contaminating the surface of items as everyone else including shop workers. Delievery items have been handled a lot less then items in a supermarket.


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## mrs phas

So glad I went and got to the bottom of it, before it all got out of hand
When the TV and radio 'report' this kind of statement, they really should be made to report the FULL statement not just 'shockbait'
This is why I asked if I had heard it right, rather than report it as fact
Thankfully I, like many others here, listened to the full interview
Wonder how many others took the bait and are spreading it as fact


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## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> So glad I went and got to the bottom of it, before it all got out of hand
> When the TV and radio 'report' this kind of statement, they really should be made to report the FULL statement not just 'shockbait'
> This is why I asked if I had heard it right, rather than report it as fact
> Thankfully I, like many others here, listened to the full interview
> Wonder how many others took the bait and are spreading it as fact


I used to have more respect for the BBC, but that respect is rapidly declining.


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## kimthecat

IN china they threw their cats out of the window of their apartments, Saw the photos of the poor cats on the pavements


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## kimthecat

So we have to keep dogs on leads in public parks ? I know it was mooted but now it seems its mentioned on the Gov website . Ive only been letting my dogs off if no other dogs around anyway , our field are large 15 or more acres I think . 
"if walking your dog in areas used by other people, you should walk your dog on a lead to ensure you can safely keep 2 metres away from others. "


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## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> IN china they threw their cats out of the window of their apartments, Saw the photos of the poor cats on the pavements


Somehow, that doesn't surprise me



Barbaric behaviour - much like that which caused the virus in the first place it seems.


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## purringcats

The long Easter weekend is upon us and the temptation to have parties and invite friends or family over or even go out and sunbathe or play football etc is there especially with it being forecast to be a nice weekend weather wise. Please, please, please resist the temptation and remain at home and only go out when and if necessary to avoid the possibility of catching this deadly disease and spreading it around.

I think personally police should come down hard on those flouting the rules this weekend with heavy fines and the money raised from these fines should go to the NHS to help them with the fight against this deadly virus.

The only way we are all going to get through this is if everyone sticks to the advice given by the Government and the experts and stay at home and only make necessary trips.

Please do not allow temptation to get the better of you this weekend.


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## MilleD

purringcats said:


> The long Easter weekend is upon us and the temptation to have parties and invite friends or family over or even go out and sunbathe or play football etc is there especially with it being forecast to be a nice weekend weather wise. Please, please, please resist the temptation and remain at home and only go out when and if necessary to avoid the possibility of catching this deadly disease and spreading it around.
> 
> I think personally police should come down hard on those flouting the rules this weekend with heavy fines and the money raised from these fines should go to the NHS to help them with the fight against this deadly virus.
> 
> The only way we are all going to get through this is if everyone sticks to the advice given by the Government and the experts and stay at home and only make necessary trips.
> 
> Please do not allow temptation to get the better of you this weekend.


I suspect you are preaching to the converted here.


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## Sacrechat

Our neighbour at the back of us has just had visitors, so clearly no social distancing going on there. No point saying anything, you can’t argue with stupid.


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## havoc

Well I’ve just had an interesting trip into town. Went to my local post office to be told they no longer accept letters and parcels - didn’t know. Asked if I could put my large envelope on their scales so they could tell me how much it would cost then I could buy the stamps. No, they are selling stamps but they wouldn’t help so I had to drive into town to queue up outside the Tesco express and use the post office inside. At least I got to send it recorded delivery I suppose which is what I really wanted but I would have risked it with normal postage to stay local, avoid a journey and other people.


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## purringcats

*Race for vaccine intensifies as coronavirus hits Asia with a second wave of outbreaks*

New cases of the disease have emerged in Wuhan, Singapore and Hong Kong in the past week, after governments lifted some of their social distancing controls.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-09/coronavirus-vaccine-asia-outbreak-covid-19?_amp=true


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## MilleD

havoc said:


> Well I've just had an interesting trip into town. Went to my local post office to be told they no longer accept letters and parcels - didn't know. Asked if I could put my large envelope on their scales so they could tell me how much it would cost then I could buy the stamps. No, they are selling stamps but they wouldn't help so I had to drive into town to queue up outside the Tesco express and use the post office inside. At least I got to send it recorded delivery I suppose which is what I really wanted but I would have risked it with normal postage to stay local, avoid a journey and other people.


So the post office in Tesco was open, but not the local one? That's consistent!


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## Magyarmum

Here in Hungary the lock down that was due to end on Saturday has now been extended indefinitely but will be reviewed on a weekly basis. Not surprising really because the pandemic here hasn't yet reached it's peak. At least the weather's good and there's lots to do in the garden!


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## Sacrechat

purringcats said:


> *Race for vaccine intensifies as coronavirus hits Asia with a second wave of outbreaks*
> 
> *https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-09/coronavirus-vaccine-asia-outbreak-covid-19?_amp=true*
> 
> New cases of the disease have emerged in Wuhan, Singapore and Hong Kong in the past week, after governments lifted some of their social distancing controls.


It says the page you are looking for cannot be found.


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## purringcats

Sacremist said:


> It says the page you are looking for cannot be found.


Sorry about that. Link has been amended.


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## Magyarmum

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/08/cd...gLvx504aWqs7aha9q2R21G0Z_Q4wK2d9PigWvHaABM3ns

*CDC quietly deletes hydroxychloroquine guidance as study hyped by Trump comes into question*


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> So glad I went and got to the bottom of it, before it all got out of hand
> When the TV and radio 'report' this kind of statement, they really should be made to report the FULL statement not just 'shockbait'
> This is why I asked if I had heard it right, rather than report it as fact
> Thankfully I, like many others here, listened to the full interview
> Wonder how many others took the bait and are spreading it as fact


I was speaking to a work colleague on the phone today and he mentioned it. I had to tell them it had been misreported.


----------



## kittih

purringcats said:


> *Race for vaccine intensifies as coronavirus hits Asia with a second wave of outbreaks*
> 
> New cases of the disease have emerged in Wuhan, Singapore and Hong Kong in the past week, after governments lifted some of their social distancing controls.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-09/coronavirus-vaccine-asia-outbreak-covid-19?_amp=true


Not at all suprised. It does show how the virus will still be present in the population even after lock down. There are likely to be a higher number of originally non infected people in China because their lockdown was probably followed more fully by citizens so any individuals still producing virus will infect this uninfected.

The point about lockdown is not to eliminate the virus but slow down spread. The disease will stop spreading when either all individuals are vaccinated (assuming no mutations) or when the proportion of previously infected but now recovered and non shedding individuals is so high that no new hosts are available to allow spread.

For the next 18 months to three years until a vaccine is available we will probably all have to go through cycles of restrictions and then lifted restrictions. Lock down just helps to ensure health resources are available to those that need them.


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.salon.com/2020/04/08/cd...gLvx504aWqs7aha9q2R21G0Z_Q4wK2d9PigWvHaABM3ns
> 
> *CDC quietly deletes hydroxychloroquine guidance as study hyped by Trump comes into question*


thank goodness for that, and yes, I know i joked about it when it was first mooted, 
but then
a lot of us joked about, a lot of things, before we knew just how serious this was to become
i have enough to take me up to the 23rd
But was getting worried, as many, on the lupus pages, albeit from America, have reported their prescriptions not being filled and being withdrawn over the counter ( I presume because of their health system, people are allowed to buy it, whereas here its prescription only)
This is a medication that keeps people, like me, alive and not being a burden on the NHS, having to have things like dialysis or heart/liver ops


----------



## havoc

kittih said:


> There are likely to be a higher number of originally non infected people in China because their lockdown was probably followed more fully by citizens so any individuals still producing virus will infect this uninfected.


If China is being honest of course. There's a more than evens chance that this virus was infecting people for a month or so before they say it was.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Why, has that been said?


I've seen the opposite said by a medic on TV, that the virus is more likely to become less deadly. Can't remember the details as to why, not even sure a full explanation was given.


----------



## MilleD

Really not trying to cause friction, people are getting very defensive.

I asked early on in this thread that people temper what they write so as not to cause more worry for people.

This thread is supposed to support and provide facts. People running around with their hands in the air does not assist in this.

Your statement was exactly the sort of thing, with absolutely no proof, that people really don't need to hear.

Do you not think reality is bad enough without spinning it worse?

And mods I'm not trying to wind the job up, but people really need to be just stating facts not speculation.


----------



## mrs phas

well breaking news on bbc news ap
is
the PM is out of ICU but remains in hospital

Edit to add link, for those who need it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52238276


----------



## lullabydream

For those who are worried about the mutations of the virus...

Yes Covid-19 isn't good, because it's a new virus and we as a whole struggle with viruses as they mutate.

However, the worst virus I can think of is HIV, which mutates like crazy, in laymen terms, so it's not say one virus, it constantly mutates, evolves and attacks T-cells which is why it's been so hard to manage.

The good news, if you can call it good news is, though we can't do anything immediately. Scientists could be lucky tomorrow but we know its a coronovirus which is technically a good think. So hypothetically it shouldn't be bad as it could be.
This is the best link I could find to kind of explain
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB12mvwb?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare


----------



## lorilu

Just STOP. WE NEED THIS THREAD. Please, stop the stupid bickering!


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## kimthecat

It seems Paul O'grady had the virus and is self isolating.  Get well soon , Paul.


----------



## SusieRainbow

MilleD said:


> Really not trying to cause friction, people are getting very defensive.
> 
> I asked early on in this thread that people temper what they write so as not to cause more worry for people.
> 
> This thread is supposed to support and provide facts. People running around with their hands in the air does not assist in this.
> 
> Your statement was exactly the sort of thing, with absolutely no proof, that people really don't need to hear.
> 
> Do you not think reality is bad enough without spinning it worse?
> 
> And mods I'm not trying to wind the job up, but people really need to be just stating facts not speculation.


I hear you and have posted the same request myself, numerous times.
This is such an emotive subject, every single one of us, no matter how well balanced and robust, is anxious.Speculation only increases such anxiety so I ask again, please be careful what you post, stick to well doumented facts and be aware that tempers may be a little frayed.
We also need to remember that we have no idea what is happening to members IRL, eg yesterday I dropped my phone down the toilet at the same time as this thread kicked off. It was not a good time for me ! :Banghead:Arghh


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## kittih

From what I have read C-19 has two "strains", one more prevelant than the other. Genetically the difference between them isnt great.

Mutations will normally occur when an organism replicates. Whether this has an impact on the way the disease presents e.g. infection rates, death rates etc really depends on what the mutations are. The mutations could easily make the virus less able to replicate as more able to. Mutations are just errors when the genetic code gets copied. Sometimes they can have a useful outcome, mostly not.

Vaccines are designed to assist the immune system in identifying the target organism so that immune system can deal with it. Vaccines work in various ways but a common way is to block the proteins that sit on the outside of the invading organism, which the organism uses to gain access to a person's cells.

Influenza has two main proteins on its outside. These are called hemagglutinin and neuraminadase abbreviated to H and N. There are lots of different variants of each of these proteins which is why the different types of flu have different numbers eg. H1N1. When vaccines are produced for flu they have to anticipate which combination of H and N it will be. C-19 has a protein, the spike which you see on the pictures, which would be used as a target for vaccines. It.doesn't have the complicated duel protein variants like influenza does. Scientists are hoping to get some sort of viable vaccine in 18 to 24 months.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ihave done a little editing.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> It seems Paul O'grady had the virus and is self isolating.  Get well soon , Paul.


Hope he is OK!


----------



## lullabydream

Boris out of intensive care
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52238276


----------



## shadowmare

Glad to hear PM is getting better. Hopefully someone will let him know that the doctor who addressed him back on 18th March has died today.https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/consultant-who-pleaded-for-more-nhs-hospital-ppe-dies-of-coronavirus?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard&__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Sacrechat

shadowmare said:


> Glad to hear PM is getting better. Hopefully someone will let him know that the doctor who addressed him back on 18th March has died today.
> https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...p_Copy_to_clipboard&__twitter_impression=true


Very sad!


----------



## Sacrechat

Today marks 3 weeks of isolation without sugar. Walking 3 miles a day, no meat, dairy or flour. The change has been fantastic! I feel great! Zero alcohol! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, caffeine free, sugar free and a 2 hour home workout each day! Lost 30 lbs of fat and gained muscle mass.

I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste! :Happy


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sacremist said:


> Today marks 3 weeks of isolation without sugar. Walking 3 miles a day, no meat, dairy or flour. The change has been fantastic! I feel great! Zero alcohol! A healthy vegan diet, gluten free, caffeine free, sugar free and a 2 hour home workout each day! Lost 30 lbs of fat and gained muscle mass.
> 
> I have no idea whose status this is, but I am really proud of them so I decided to copy & paste! :Happy


Sharing !


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> Very sad!


i read this
and find it absoutely ridiculous that this morning
son no 1, who works retail, and his coworkers
have been told that, from tomorrow they have to use the medical grade, full face, plastic visors, if out on the shop floor
now, much as i love my son, 
i find it totally ridiculous that,
shop workers are being issued with these
yet our very front line nurses, and doctors, are dieing from a shortage of them


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> i read this
> and find it absoutely ridiculous that this morning
> son no 1, who works retail, and his coworkers
> have been told that, from tomorrow they have to use the medical grade, full face, plastic visors, if out on the shop floor
> now, much as i love my son,
> i find it totally ridiculous that,
> shop workers are being issued with these
> yet our very front line nurses, and doctors, are dieing from a shortage of them


It isn't right, I agree.


----------



## shadowmare

mrs phas said:


> i read this
> and find it absoutely ridiculous that this morning
> son no 1, who works retail, and his coworkers
> have been told that, from tomorrow they have to use the medical grade, full face, plastic visors, if out on the shop floor
> now, much as i love my son,
> i find it totally ridiculous that,
> shop workers are being issued with these
> yet our very front line nurses, and doctors, are dieing from a shortage of them


Here in Scotland a few secondary schools have spent the weekend making the plastic visors for hospitals! Only know about it as one of them is a school I was on placement with and the other couple of schools are where my friends work and they were sharing posts on facebook looking for any businesses that could supply/ donate more of the vinyl material...


----------



## mrs phas

shadowmare said:


> Here in Scotland a few secondary schools have spent the weekend making the plastic visors for hospitals! Only know about it as one of them is a school I was on placement with and the other couple of schools are where my friends work and they were sharing posts on facebook looking for any businesses that could supply/ donate more of the vinyl material...


my point exactly
theres quite a few, in our local newspaper this week, with 3d printers, who have been making the headbands
theres seamstresses up and down the country making scrubs
I would, obviously, give my life for my son
but this just seems wrong


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> I've seen the opposite said by a medic on TV, that the virus is more likely to become less deadly. Can't remember the details as to why, not even sure a full explanation was given.


I misses the now deleted posts, was out trying to social distance and do volunteer work in the community at the same time, wasn't easy.... Humans are not meant to not make contact...

Anyway, yes, I read/saw the same thing, will see if I can find a link I want to say it was Dr. Fauci here in the US who said it, but I could be wrong. 
I've heard two things about this virus mutating: 
Yes it will mutate, but that shouldn't affect vaccine efficacy for the reasons @kittih has explained. For the same reasons, those already affected shouldn't get it again just like if you got measles as a kid, you don't get them again. The cases of people being 're' infected are suspected that they weren't fully over the virus to begin with, that it somehow went dormant in the body and then resurfaced (chicken pox can do this in the form of shingles), or that the negative test was a false negative.

The other thing about the virus mutating is the same thing as @havoc states. If it mutates, it will mutate in to a form that makes the host less sick. Which is what they think has happened and created such a problem. They think there are many people with minimal even no symptoms which helps the virus spread. If you're so sick that you can't get out of bed, it's hard to spread the virus to others. But if you feel fine and keep going out and about, it spreads like crazy.


----------



## mrs phas

Not all doom, gloom and choosing who lives and dies

BBC News - Coronavirus: Keith Watson, 101, recovers from Covid-19
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52222315


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> my point exactly
> theres quite a few, in our local newspaper this week, with 3d printers, who have been making the headbands
> theres seamstresses up and down the country making scrubs


My local hackspace has been involved with the 3d printing effort, one of our members owns a 3d printing company in Reading, and he started a discussion about using our 3D printers alongside his own to make visors. The effort needs a 'clean' environment, so a Cisco employee got involved organising a setup at their local offices, and other companies and establishments have joined our member and the hackspace in lending their machines to the setup and training volunteers to use them. They've already delivered 1000 visors, and are hoping to get to 300 a day soon, as well as pulling together an info pack to help other groups do the same thing 

https://gblogs.cisco.com/uki/uniting-passion-and-skills-to-help-support-health-workers/


----------



## O2.0

Okay, this is about re-infection, you'll have to skip to about 11:00


----------



## Magyarmum

One thing that hasn't been widely publicised is that the virus can also be found in faeces which is why it is vitally important to wash your hands well after going to the loo..

It came to my attention because a Hungarian university has become the first in Europe to isolate the virus from patients faecal samples

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langas/article/PIIS2468-1253(20)30083-2/fulltext

*Prolonged presence of SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA in faecal samples*

http://hungarymatters.hu/2020/04/09...-transmission-pecs-university-research-finds/
*
CORONAVIRUS CAN SPREAD VIA FAECAL TRANSMISSION, PÉCS UNIVERSITY RESEARCH FINDS*


----------



## Bisbow

I see vets and vet nurses are now being asked to help Dr's and nurses. Good for them, just hope they know where to put the thermometer on humans


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> It seems Paul O'grady had the virus and is self isolating.  Get well soon , Paul.


Didn't know that. Speedy recovery Paul. Your menagerie needs you.


----------



## Magyarmum

Very interesting and rather scary.

https://www.aalto.fi/en/news/resear...rus-emphasise-the-importance-of-avoiding-busy

*Researchers modelling the spread of the coronavirus emphasise the importance of avoiding busy indoor spaces*


----------



## Calvine

Bisbow said:


> I see vets and vet nurses are now being asked to help Dr's and nurses. Good for them, just hope they know where to put the thermometer on humans


:Hilarious:Hilarious Yes indeed! Had to pick up meds for Maggie this week and it was like meeting your local dealer. . . . outside in the car park, drugs and payment changing hands surreptitiously, ''dealer'' heavily disguised with mask etc. A typical ''drop''. The only thing missing was me wearing a hoodie down over my eyes.


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Very interesting and rather scary.
> 
> https://www.aalto.fi/en/news/resear...rus-emphasise-the-importance-of-avoiding-busy
> 
> *Researchers modelling the spread of the coronavirus emphasise the importance of avoiding busy indoor spaces*


They showed a visual simulation of this on telly - the aerosol cloud lifted up and over the supermarket shelf into the parallel aisle!


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Very interesting and rather scary.
> 
> https://www.aalto.fi/en/news/resear...rus-emphasise-the-importance-of-avoiding-busy
> 
> *Researchers modelling the spread of the coronavirus emphasise the importance of avoiding busy indoor spaces*


The common outdoor shopping/eating in Spain doesn't seem to have reduced their contagion rate much.


----------



## Calvine

Sacremist said:


> I can't get any milk for love nor money!


There's a problem, apparently, in the dairy industry, plus people are stockpiling longlife milk:

https://www.ft.com/content/64e5e6b2-3c29-4ed0-a83f-f5f66d517315


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> There's a problem, apparently, in the dairy industry, plus people are stockpiling longlife milk:
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/64e5e6b2-3c29-4ed0-a83f-f5f66d517315


I've seen hugely mixed stories.

Milk producers having to pour milk away as it isn't being collected and then shortages. Something doesn't tie up.


----------



## Psygon

I saw that as well @MilleD - it seemed those dairies were tied to places like Starbucks and couldn't sell the milk or something like that!

Absolutely crackers when up and down the country people can't buy milk.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I've seen hugely mixed stories.
> 
> Milk producers having to pour milk away as it isn't being collected and then shortages. Something doesn't tie up.


I saw that on the BBC yesterday, so many companies like airlines, restaurants and the like, so no one to collect the milk from the farms and no one to buy it. Crazy surely someone needs more milk with so many people stopping at home.


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> There's a problem, apparently, in the dairy industry, plus people are stockpiling longlife milk:
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/64e5e6b2-3c29-4ed0-a83f-f5f66d517315


I can't read that as it's subscription only
But this was the report on the BBC yesterday

BBC News - Coronavirus crisis forces farmers to throw milk away
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52205163


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> The common outdoor shopping/eating in Spain doesn't seem to have reduced their contagion rate much.


I wouldn't imagine it would if people are standing/walking or sitting and eating in close proximity to one another. And goods and food etc being passed from hand to hand.

Our open air markets haven't been closed but wild horses couldn't persuade me to shop at one.


----------



## Magyarmum

This the directive about shopping issued by Tesco Hungary. Sorry it's all in Hungarian but you get the idea!

https://tesco.hu/ertesitesek/


----------



## Lurcherlad

Psygon said:


> I saw that as well @MilleD - it seemed those dairies were tied to places like Starbucks and couldn't sell the milk or something like that!
> 
> Absolutely crackers when up and down the country people can't buy milk.


Hopefully, one of the positives with this virus is that these ridiculously restrictive systems are identified and dealt with going forward.

Problems in the milk industry have been around a long time - farmers are often working hard for little return and the distributors/store make all the money.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I wouldn't imagine it would if people are standing/walking or sitting and eating in close proximity to one another. And goods and food etc being passed from hand to hand.
> 
> Our open air markets haven't been closed but wild horses couldn't persuade me to shop at one.


I meant before any lockdown started really. I know they won't be sitting together eating on the pavements now. Well, they might if it's anything like here


----------



## Lurcherlad

This headline on BBC website:

Refers to Wales but other forces are doing similar. I hope it works to encourage most people to stay home, for all our sakes.

*Coronavirus: Police launch Easter crackdown on travelling*
*
*


----------



## Psygon

Lurcherlad said:


> This headline on BBC website:
> 
> Refers to Wales but other forces are doing similar. I hope it works to encourage most people to stay home, for all our sakes.
> 
> *Coronavirus: Police launch Easter crackdown on travelling*


Me too, but as soon as the sun comes out people's sense goes out the window.

Me I am happy to stay home. My husband just made me eggy bread with bananas and maple syrup! And we are al fresco in the garden


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> Me too, but as soon as the sun comes out people's sense goes out the window.
> 
> Me I am happy to stay home. My husband just made me eggy bread with bananas and maple syrup! And we are al fresco in the garden
> View attachment 436164


Bloody hell, you can even make a photo of a half eaten breakfast look good! How do you do that?


----------



## Sacrechat

Calvine said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious Yes indeed! Had to pick up meds for Maggie this week and it was like meeting your local dealer. . . . outside in the car park, drugs and payment changing hands surreptitiously, ''dealer'' heavily disguised with mask etc. A typical ''drop''. The only thing missing was me wearing a hoodie down over my eyes.


At least you know how to style yourself if you need to go back! :Nailbiting


----------



## Sacrechat

On the one hand, you have the Welsh being really nasty to those who have caravans on parks and complaining about tourists and then you have this! They wonder why tourists flout the rules when Welsh businesses are clearly doing the same:

https://north.wales/news/anglesey/c...-for-breaching-coronavirus-closure-13703.html


----------



## Cully

Sacremist said:


> At least you know how to style yourself if you need to go back! :Nailbiting


and @Calvine . 
Had to smile at this. When the guy comes to deliver my meds he has to buzz the intercom so I can let him in. It's a sheltered housing residential block. When I answer his buzz he says, "Drug runner" so I know it's him.
I keep telling him he's going to get into an awful lot of trouble if anyone takes him the wrong way.
Strangely, he only says it to me, none of the others!!!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> This headline on BBC website:
> 
> Refers to Wales but other forces are doing similar. I hope it works to encourage most people to stay home, for all our sakes.
> 
> *Coronavirus: Police launch Easter crackdown on travelling*


They've stopped 40 cars coming to a dorset beauty spot already! You have to wonder why they do it. It's been all over the news not to go, but still people try


----------



## Sacrechat

Cully said:


> and @Calvine .
> Had to smile at this. When the guy comes to deliver my meds he has to buzz the intercom so I can let him in. It's a sheltered housing residential block. When I answer his buzz he says, "Drug runner" so I know it's him.
> I keep telling him he's going to get into an awful lot of trouble if anyone takes him the wrong way.
> Strangely, he only says it to me, none of the others!!!


He must trust you!


----------



## kimthecat

Cambridge police are going to supermarkets and checking peoples trollies and making sure people dont stand to close apparently. I guess Country lines are keeping them busy enough! 
People not allowed to stop . Wondering what happens about waiting at bus stops , not everyone has a car to do their shopping.

@Cully :Hilarious


----------



## Cully

Sacremist said:


> He must trust you!


I'm more concerned the others might think I'm some sort of 'Don'!:Cigar


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Cambridge police are going to supermarkets and checking peoples trollies and making sure people dont stand to close apparently. I guess Country lines are keeping them busy enough!
> People not allowed to stop . Wondering what happens about waiting at bus stops , not everyone has a car to do their shopping.
> 
> @Cully :Hilarious


Are they really doing that?

I read a story that completely misquoted a police chap who said "we are not yet at the point where we are checking people's shopping trolleys". The headline was "police to check people's shopping trolleys".....


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Cambridge police are going to supermarkets and checking peoples trollies


For what!
Or are they the 'essentials' police
How can they deem what someone finds essential or not?
Personally
I don't see chocolate or biscuits as essential
However 
A diabetic might
Ok
Bread is essential
But
Are cakes?
Paint?
Is it essential?
But DIY shops like homebase are allowed to be open
One of the bulbs has gone on my car
Now that's not just essential but unlawful and possibly affects my insurance ( ok I'm not driving right now, but others do)
Is a garage or Halfords open?
Not around here they're not

Find this a real waste of police time tbh


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> Are they really doing that?
> 
> I read a story that completely misquoted a police chap who said "we are not yet at the point where we are checking people's shopping trolleys". The headline was "police to check people's shopping trolleys".....


I think the Government have made it clear checking shopping trollies would not be appropriate and people are entitled to buy whatever is on the shelves. Some one - Patel I think, spoke about it on the radio.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> People not allowed to stop . Wondering what happens about waiting at bus stops , not everyone has a car to do their shopping


Yesterday they showed some older people sitting on a park bench as an illustration of people flouting the guidelines. How did they know that one or both didn't have some limiting affliction. Have people still got to keep going if they have arthritis/fibromyalgia/MS or similar or are they not allowed out for exercise?



MilleD said:


> Are they really doing that?
> 
> I read a story that completely misquoted a police chap who said "we are not yet at the point where we are checking people's shopping trolleys". The headline was "police to check people's shopping trolleys".....


I found that very threatening and heavy handed. reminded me of a psychological bully.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> Cambridge police are going to supermarkets and checking peoples trollies and making sure people dont stand to close apparently. I guess Country lines are keeping them busy enough!
> People not allowed to stop . Wondering what happens about waiting at bus stops , not everyone has a car to do their shopping.
> 
> @Cully :Hilarious





MilleD said:


> Are they really doing that?
> 
> I read a story that completely misquoted a police chap who said "we are not yet at the point where we are checking people's shopping trolleys". The headline was "police to check people's shopping trolleys".....





mrs phas said:


> For what!
> Or are they the 'essentials' police
> How can they deem what someone finds essential or not?
> Personally
> I don't see chocolate or biscuits as essential
> However
> A diabetic might
> Ok
> Bread is essential
> But
> Are cakes?
> Paint?
> Is it essential?
> But DIY shops like homebase are allowed to be open
> One of the bulbs has gone on my car
> Now that's not just essential but unlawful and possibly affects my insurance ( ok I'm not driving right now, but others do)
> Is a garage or Halfords open?
> Not around here they're not
> 
> Find this a real waste of police time tbh





3dogs2cats said:


> I think the Government have made it clear checking shopping trollies would not be appropriate and people are entitled to buy whatever is on the shelves. Some one - Patel I think, spoke about it on the radio.


Well it's very odd, because no they aren't, as far as I know. Where did you get this from @kimthecat? Only I live in Cambridge and although I am still using local shops, I've been to an M&S and Sainsbury's in the past ten days for a very at risk friend and I've seen one police van in the car park of the retail park where the M&S is as it's a popular place for people to congregate. Certainly no police in the store at all. They are doing a bloody brilliant job of going around the many open parks in our city which are still attracting tourists and checking which is good, it's protecting us. I have also checked with two friends, one is a manager at Tesco and another in Lidl in the city. They all said that checking of baskets is the job of supermarket staff and laughed.

Thanks @MilleD for your suspicions. To echo your comment yesterday, can we stick to facts. If it is factual the my apologies @kimthecat but I've seen no evidence in the past four weeks. The police here are nothing sort of amazing and putting themselves at risk to do that.


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Yesterday they showed some older people sitting on a park bench as an illustration of people flouting the guidelines. How did they know that one or both didn't have some limiting affliction. Have people still got to keep going if they have arthritis/fibromyalgia/MS or similar or are they not allowed out for exercise?


People with any of those shouldn't be out anyway
They fall within the extended guidelines in regard to the 12 week isolation regulations


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> People with any of those shouldn't be out anyway
> They fall within the extended guidelines in regard to the 12 week isolation regulations


Maybe the last one but not the others. Why shouldn't they be out?


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> I'm more concerned the others might think I'm some sort of 'Don'!:Cigar


Dona Corleone:Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

Please read ALL the article...
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-non-essential-aisles-at-supermarket-11971517


----------



## mrs phas

There is a lot of thinking aroundfibro being attached to compromised immune system
And
Some arthritis, like rheumatoid, is again linked to ones immune system
Which is why arthritis fibro and lupus all come under immunology AND rheumatology specialists


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> There is a lot of thinking aroundfibro being attached to compromised immune system
> And
> Some arthritis, like rheumatoid, is again linked to ones immune system
> Which is why arthritis fibro and lupus all come under immunology AND rheumatology specialists


Neither my friend with Arthritis +cancer or my SIL with fibro are on the at risk register.
They both have to fend for themselves.


----------



## Psygon

rona said:


> Neither my friend with Arthritis +cancer or my SIL with fibro are on the at risk register.
> They both have to fend for themselves.


I also have arthritis, and not on the at risk register. I think arthritis itself wouldn't put you on the register. However, if you take any form of immunosuppressant I think you would be.


----------



## rona

953 dead


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Neither my friend with Arthritis +cancer or my SIL with fibro are on the at risk register.
> They both have to fend for themselves.


If your friend is recieving treatment that suppresses their immune system, such as chemo, then they should be
And I didn't say ALL arthritis, I said some, plus, it's upto your gp or consultant to put you on the government list



> GOV.UK coronavirus support: You registered as a clinically extremely vulnerable person. If you have not received a letter from the NHS or been in contact with your GP or hospital clinician, you should contact them to confirm whether you are considered clinically extremely vulnerable. If you meet the clinical criteria, your GP or clinician will be able to request that you be included.
> 
> If you need urgent support such as food or care, please contact your local council.
> 
> For the latest information visit www.gov.uk/coronavirus


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> People with any of those shouldn't be out anyway
> They fall within the extended guidelines in regard to the 12 week isolation regulations





mrs phas said:


> And I didn't say ALL arthritis, I said some


Umm


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Neither my friend with Arthritis +cancer or my SIL with fibro are on the at risk register.
> They both have to fend for themselves.


I've had fibro for 30 years or so and take regular painkillers. Over the years I have learnt how to manage most of the other symptoms and so very rarely go to see my GP. I'm not suprised I haven't had a letter as he probably would have forgotten who I am. It still doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable and petrified of going out as I know if I catch the virus it will probably kill me. All I want is a delivery slot every 2 weeks. I'll be a happy bunny then to stay at home until it's safe for me to go out.


----------



## kimthecat

@MollySmith It was trending on twitter. Seem a police officer was over zealous. if you google the link should come up .


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> If your friend is recieving treatment that suppresses their immune system, such as chemo, then they should be


Am sure @Lurcherlad has had to fight for her OH to be recognised as vulnerable. Who is luckily receiving chemo currently. Some have had their chemo stopped.
Am sure @Lurcherlad can clarify more but reading she's had a terrible fight on her hands and my heart goes out to her at every post she mentions her struggles for her OH to keep him safe.


----------



## kimthecat

Its getting hot now. Walked at 7 and it was lovely.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Here everyone over 70 is asked to stay home and obviously deliveries are arranged.

Makes sense. Also anyone vulnerable asked to stay home too.

Family or volunteers leave stuff on doorstep...
We can drive to walk the dog.. true you can walk everywhere in an hour here...
But Scrip poor thing is elderly and needs the car to take him.

Morons here demand to limit dog walkers to the nearest tree.. which means in big estates lots of people going to the same place?

Logistics...
I prefer to carry him to the car to walk him far away...


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> @MollySmith It was trending on twitter. Seem a police officer was over zealous. if you google the link should come up .


I'm not sure Twitter makes something a fact.

If a copper asked to look in my bags, I'd tell him I'd bought tampons and did he want proof I had my period.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> I'm not sure Twitter makes something a fact.
> 
> If a copper asked to look in my bags, I'd tell him I'd bought tampons and did he want proof I had my period.


:Hilarious

It was in The Daily Mirror.


----------



## Bisbow

I do wish they wold tell s how many people leave hospital having got over it as well as how many have died
Ir gets very depressing especially if you are old and vlnerable


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Am sure @Lurcherlad has had to fight for her OH to be recognised as vulnerable. Who is luckily receiving chemo currently. Some have had their chemo stopped.
> Am sure @Lurcherlad can clarify more but reading she's had a terrible fight on her hands and my heart goes out to her at every post she mentions her struggles for her OH to keep him safe.


We heard this week that he's on the List. However, we've managed to sort ourselves out now so won't be calling on their services.

Once on lockdown it took a couple of weeks to get an Asda delivery slot plus a couple of friends have helped out with essentials.

The next delivery is 15th, then weekly thereafter.

We feel very fortunate, but it was very worrying thinking I was going to have to come out of isolation and go to the supermarket when our stocks ran out.

I really hope by now everyone who needs assistance has got it from somewhere.

If not, even those on the list will have no choice but to venture out.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate how difficult this has been all round, organising the logistics etc. but it's not as cut and dried as we might think to get the help we might need.


----------



## lullabydream

Bisbow said:


> I do wish they wold tell s how many people leave hospital having got over it as well as how many have died
> Ir gets very depressing especially if you are old and vlnerable


The current statistics are
80% have mild symptoms.. No age range mentioned on this
14% need some support at hospital.
6% need critical care...

It could be 16% and 4% can't quite remember now. If that gives you some perspective.


----------



## Psygon

cheekyscrip said:


> Here everyone over 70 is asked to stay home and obviously deliveries are arranged.
> 
> Makes sense. Also anyone vulnerable asked to stay home too.
> 
> Family or volunteers leave stuff on doorstep...
> We can drive to walk the dog.. true you can walk everywhere in an hour here...
> But Scrip poor thing is elderly and needs the car to take him.
> 
> Morons here demand to limit dog walkers to the nearest tree.. which means in big estates lots of people going to the same place?
> 
> Logistics...
> I prefer to carry him to the car to walk him far away...


Stunning pic!


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> We heard this week that he's on the List. However, we've managed to sort ourselves out now so won't be calling on their services.
> 
> Once on lockdown it took a couple of weeks to get an Asda delivery slot plus a couple of friends have helped out with essentials.
> 
> The next delivery is 15th, then weekly thereafter.
> 
> We feel very fortunate, but it was very worrying thinking I was going to have to come out of isolation and go to the supermarket when our stocks ran out.
> 
> I really hope by now everyone who needs assistance has got it from somewhere.
> 
> If not, even those on the list will have no choice but to venture out.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I appreciate how difficult this has been all round, organising the logistics etc. but it's not as cut and dried as we might think to get the help we might need.


It took some time though @Lurcherlad to be 'on the list'. No ones health is a competition. Am not throwing your OH is more worthy than others at all.
Am guessing this is the second wave as the government put it. I find it very clinical, soul destroying for everyone. How they have prioritised things, especially things such as cancers.


----------



## Psygon

Bisbow said:


> I do wish they wold tell s how many people leave hospital having got over it as well as how many have died
> Ir gets very depressing especially if you are old and vlnerable


I do think there is a certain amount of sensationalism in what gets reported. The death rate is scary and that gets people reading stories and clicking links.

Has anyone seen any statistics on how much above the normal daily deaths rate coronavirus is? I.e if on a normal day 1200 people die, and with coronavirus it's now at 1800 or something?


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> I do think there is a certain amount of sensationalism in what gets reported. The death rate is scary and that gets people reading stories and clicking links.
> 
> Has anyone seen any statistics on how much above the normal daily deaths rate coronavirus is? I.e if on a normal day 1200 people die, and with coronavirus it's now at 1800 or something?


We will only know afterwards, but if lockdown is stuck to, all measures are in place then the aim for the population is about 1%, although its still a lot of deaths. Each one obviously a tragedy.


----------



## Magyarmum

In Hungary we're given updated figures every morning which look like this ........................

We are also given the number of confirmed cases in each county plus a list giving detail of all the people who have died from the virus their ages and any underlying illnesses


----------



## lullabydream

Meant to add, currently the curve is.. On target from what I can gather.. It's not rising steeply and below projection. 

The big but.. It doesn't take into people dying ar home with Covid-19 being say a catalyst to an underlying illness.


----------



## Psygon

lullabydream said:


> We will only know afterwards, but if lockdown is stuck to, all measures are in place then the aim for the population is about 1%, although its still a lot of deaths. Each one obviously a tragedy.


Thank you, I was trying to find something that had that projection on. And agreed it is a lot of deaths.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Psygon said:


> I do think there is a certain amount of sensationalism in what gets reported. The death rate is scary and that gets people reading stories and clicking links.
> 
> Has anyone seen any statistics on how much above the normal daily deaths rate coronavirus is? I.e if on a normal day 1200 people die, and with coronavirus it's now at 1800 or something?


The indicative information is " no underlying health issues " - then you find it is 30 - 50 .

The flu epidemics will also strike elderly and in poor health and does it every year, but their deaths are mostly due to the conditions already had and sometimes just the old age..

I had three family members pass away due to flu/pneumonia etc... but all 75 plus with terminal cancer, obviously immunocompromised.

There is another factor- a person can be not old and have no diagnosed illness but being obese is a very important factor if you look at research and statistics so far in France, USA and China.

Obviously it is more difficult to breath if you bedridden with extra weight on your chest.

Not sure if I should have written it, but those are facts.
Especially in USA this a concern for specialists ...plus the need for customized beds and extra staff for those patients, sometimes not possible to take them in standard ambulance...


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary we're given updated figures every morning which look like this ........................
> 
> We are also given the number of confirmed cases in each county plus a list giving detail of all the people who have died from the virus their ages and any underlying illnesses


I wish we had something like this. The figures are probably held somewhere, but they are not easy to find. What's the population of Hungary?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary we're given updated figures every morning which look like this ........................
> 
> We are also given the number of confirmed cases in each county plus a list giving detail of all the people who have died from the virus their ages and any underlying illnesses


We get a text every day in Gibraltar, we have about 35 k population. No deaths, no one needed ventilators.

But over 70 have to stay home totally.


----------



## lullabydream

Psygon said:


> Thank you, I was trying to find something that had that projection on. And agreed it is a lot of deaths.


If you have time watch Dr John Campbell on YouTube he's a retired doctor and gives a worldwide view each day. He usually does 2 videos a day. He breaks the science down to basic level, so everyone can understand. 
He kind of collates data from all over.

It's interesting to read comments, because some people pull him up on things.

He doesn't claim to know everything either.

I said he does 2 videos a day, they could be an in depth look into a new study, all though recently he seems to practise his Spanish by doing a video he's done but in Spanish. Ones always an update on the world and Covid-19.

He's done one recently about masks, and the aerolisation of Covid-19. Which has been mentioned here.

You will want a fountain pen if you watch him though!


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> It was in The Daily Mirror.


That explains it then :Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> I wish we had something like this. The figures are probably held somewhere, but they are not easy to find. What's the population of Hungary?


The population of Hungary is 9,773 million people.

If you bookmark this site you can follow the statistics throughout theworld day by day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> The population of Hungary is 9,773 million people.
> 
> If you bookmark this site you can follow the statistics throughout theworld day by day
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


I have that link, it's not always updated accurately sadly, some stats seem to not changed foe ages


----------



## Magyarmum

https://boon.hu/egyperces/ujfajta-a...2-vZQmAr2eioMvLQqDaefq43NmP1152KRLCgZ9pQ4vDCM

*A new kind of face mask has been developed*


----------



## kittih

MollySmith said:


> Well it's very odd, because no they aren't, as far as I know. Where did you get this from @kimthecat? Only I live in Cambridge and although I am still using local shops, I've been to an M&S and Sainsbury's in the past ten days for a very at risk friend and I've seen one police van in the car park of the retail park where the M&S is as it's a popular place for people to congregate. Certainly no police in the store at all. They are doing a bloody brilliant job of going around the many open parks in our city which are still attracting tourists and checking which is good, it's protecting us. I have also checked with two friends, one is a manager at Tesco and another in Lidl in the city. They all said that checking of baskets is the job of supermarket staff and laughed.
> 
> Thanks @MilleD for your suspicions. To echo your comment yesterday, can we stick to facts. If it is factual the my apologies @kimthecat but I've seen no evidence in the past four weeks. The police here are nothing sort of amazing and putting themselves at risk to do that.


I too am in Cambridgeshire. They arent as far as I know. I think a comment made by one of the higher ups in force was misquoted. There was also a tweet by Cambs Police from a patrol at Barhill Tesco saying they were pleased to see that it was very good to see that the non essentials aisles were empty. Lots of backlash on social media about that and tweet has now been withdrawn and that an over enthusiastic officer had posted it in error. It struck me that the aisle were probably empty because everyone had stocked up on treats for the Easter weekend rather than the shops not filling the shelves


----------



## MilleD

kittih said:


> I too am in Cambridgeshire. They arent as far as I know. I think a comment made by one of the higher ups in force was misquoted. There was also a tweet by Cambs Police from a patrol at Barhill Tesco saying they were pleased to see that it was very good to see that the non essentials aisles were empty. Lots of backlash on social media about that and tweet has now been withdrawn and that an over enthusiastic officer had posted it in error. It struck me that the aisle were probably empty because everyone had stocked up on treats for the Easter weekend rather than the shops not filling the shelves


Were the non essential aisles empty because the stuff had already been purchased then? 

I would love them to explain what is essential as there are absolutely no laws about what you can and can't buy, so there is no law under which they could enforce you not buying things they think might not be.


----------



## Cully

kittih said:


> it was very good to see that the non essentials aisles were empty.


I would 'love' to know exactly what is classed as non essential, when in reality, what you and I class as non essential is probably quite different. I'd like to see someone in Tesco try and take my choc chip mini muffin and Elmlea off me:Stop. That's a daily essential to me as a reward for getting through yet another day.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Were the non essential aisles empty because the stuff had already been purchased then?
> 
> I would love them to explain what is essential as there are absolutely no laws about what you can and can't buy, so there is no law under which they could enforce you not buying things they think might not be.


No one stopped me buying a huge French bulldog Teddy from Tesco. I classed it as essential for my sons birthday today. 
Since he's had to cancel his holiday, can't see his girlfriend it did make him smile.. Only hoping his caterpillar birthday cake will do the same!


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> I would 'love' to know exactly what is classed as non essential, when in reality, what you and I class as non essential is probably quite different. I'd like to see someone in Tesco try and take my choc chip mini muffin and Elmlea off me:Stop. That's a daily essential to me as a reward for getting through yet another day.


:Hilarious

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-criticised-patrolling-tesco-to-21845579

Not just Cambridge

 
"In Gloucestershire, police returned to The Range in Gloucester, where a number of customers were stopped by PSCOs on Thursday.

Police told shoppers that their purchases of paint, topsoil, a sat-nav, an Easter egg, a scratch card, bamboo fencing and stone chippings were not essential, GloucestershireLive reports.

Officers had been at the shop just two days earlier for the same purpose.

Humberside Police officers were also patrolling supermarkets on Friday."


----------



## Jaf

Spanish police fined people for buying cola and chocolate a while back. Then in my town the other day for not going to their nearest supermarket. €2000!


----------



## MollySmith

kittih said:


> I too am in Cambridgeshire. They arent as far as I know. I think a comment made by one of the higher ups in force was misquoted. There was also a tweet by Cambs Police from a patrol at Barhill Tesco saying they were pleased to see that it was very good to see that the non essentials aisles were empty. Lots of backlash on social media about that and tweet has now been withdrawn and that an over enthusiastic officer had posted it in error. It struck me that the aisle were probably empty because everyone had stocked up on treats for the Easter weekend rather than the shops not filling the shelves


Yup, that's what the Sky News article confirmed, it was a gentle bit of fun that went mad and was taken the wrong way. It's been a gorgeous day here, I hope you got to enjoy the sunshine safely in your bit of Cambridgeshire.


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> No one stopped me buying a huge French bulldog Teddy from Tesco. I classed it as essential for my sons birthday today.
> Since he's had to cancel his holiday, can't see his girlfriend it did make him smile.. Only hoping his caterpillar birthday cake will do the same!


Photos?


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-criticised-patrolling-tesco-to-21845579
> 
> Not just Cambridge
> 
> 
> "In Gloucestershire, police returned to The Range in Gloucester, where a number of customers were stopped by PSCOs on Thursday.
> 
> Police told shoppers that their purchases of paint, topsoil, a sat-nav, an Easter egg, a scratch card, bamboo fencing and stone chippings were not essential, GloucestershireLive reports.
> 
> Officers had been at the shop just two days earlier for the same purpose.
> 
> Humberside Police officers were also patrolling supermarkets on Friday."


Not in Cambridge at all. *As opposed to not 'just in Cambridge'.*


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-criticised-patrolling-tesco-to-21845579
> 
> Not just Cambridge
> 
> 
> "In Gloucestershire, police returned to The Range in Gloucester, where a number of customers were stopped by PSCOs on Thursday.
> 
> Police told shoppers that their purchases of paint, topsoil, a sat-nav, an Easter egg, a scratch card, bamboo fencing and stone chippings were not essential, GloucestershireLive reports.
> 
> Officers had been at the shop just two days earlier for the same purpose.
> 
> Humberside Police officers were also patrolling supermarkets on Friday."


Makes you wonder why the Range is open if you're not allowed to buy anything there. They don't sell food do they?


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> It was in The Daily Mirror.


Who got it wrong. Please read this in full - second time I have posted this. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-non-essential-aisles-at-supermarket-11971517


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Photos?


I haven't got any candles for the cake I don't think!


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Makes you wonder why the Range is open if you're not allowed to buy anything there. They don't sell food do they?


Well, they sell sweets and Easter eggs.

I love the range, it's my favourite shop. Can't wait to go back and purchase totally random stuff I didn't know I needed


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> I would 'love' to know exactly what is classed as non essential, when in reality, what you and I class as non essential is probably quite different. I'd like to see someone in Tesco try and take my choc chip mini muffin and Elmlea off me:Stop. That's a daily essential to me as a reward for getting through yet another day.


Easter eggs are essential ! iced donuts ! Nescafe cappachino ! I expect to lose weight without these essential. 



lullabydream said:


> I haven't got any candles for the cake I don't think!


Well ok , I'll you off the cake but pictures of the bulldog are essential


----------



## Psygon

kimthecat said:


> Easter eggs are essential ! iced donuts ! Nescafe cappachino ! I expect to lose weight without these essential.
> 
> Well ok , I'll you off the cake but pictures of the bulldog are essential


Easter eggs are definitely essential. Just had mine delivered


----------



## Siskin

I’ve run out of Jaffa Cake cake bars, one of the few things I feel like eating at the moment. Radiotherapy does odd things to your appetite I’ve found.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I've run out of Jaffa Cake cake bars, one of the few things I feel like eating at the moment. Radiotherapy does odd things to your appetite I've found.


https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/McVitie-s-...e&pageci=a6b2fb8f-1f3d-4df0-ba4a-bb44e1981e70

There you go x


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Makes you wonder why the Range is open if you're not allowed to buy anything there. They don't sell food do they?


in ipswich Iceland is inside the range
daft really as theyve got a huge food wharehouse ( iceland with bells whistles and cash n carry stuff, one shop away


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> Only hoping his caterpillar birthday cake will do the same!


And your son is er........how old??


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I've run out of Jaffa Cake cake bars, one of the few things I feel like eating at the moment. Radiotherapy does odd things to your appetite I've found.


I love'em. Did you know they do pineapple ones.

latest news
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937
Coronavirus: Public reassured over lockdown policing rules


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> Spanish police fined people for buying cola and chocolate a while back. Then in my town the other day for not going to their nearest supermarket. €2000!


Wow, that sounds heavy handed.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Makes you wonder why the Range is open if you're not allowed to buy anything there. They don't sell food do they?


The Range here is notorious for it's narrow aisles and being ram packed. It makes me wonder how they are going to put social distancing in place if other branches are the same.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Makes you wonder why the Range is open if you're not allowed to buy anything there. They don't sell food do they?


Bread and milk. Biscuits and sweets. Cold drinks. And a decent pet food section. (not sure about the bread!)


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> I haven't got any candles for the cake I don't think!


Excuses!!!


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> If your friend is recieving treatment that suppresses their immune system, such as chemo, then they should be
> And I didn't say ALL arthritis, I said some, plus, it's upto your gp or consultant to put you on the government list


My GP said they haven't sent any such list to the government, so I have no idea how the government knows who should or shouldn't be on there. There's so much conflicting information, I'm feeling utterly confused.


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Am sure @Lurcherlad has had to fight for her OH to be recognised as vulnerable. Who is luckily receiving chemo currently. Some have had their chemo stopped.
> Am sure @Lurcherlad can clarify more but reading she's had a terrible fight on her hands and my heart goes out to her at every post she mentions her struggles for her OH to keep him safe.


She's not the only one, unfortunately, I've had to struggle to get my husband on the list and my sister and her husband can't get food deliveries either. I've managed to get a slot with Ocado in a couple of weeks and I'm ordering food for both of us and when it arrives, she will have to drive over to come and pick it up.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> And your son is er........how old??


23 today.. Obviously not the best day for him when he was supposed to be travelling up to Edinburgh, well that area for a week's holiday with his girlfriend.

Am going to tell him it's health and safety no candles on the cake because he's got a beard!


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> 23 today.. Obviously not the best day for him when he was supposed to be travelling up to Edinburgh, well that area for a week's holiday with his girlfriend.
> 
> Am going to tell him it's health and safety no candles on the cake because he's got a beard!


Give him this then...


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> She's not the only one, unfortunately, I've had to struggle to get my husband on the list and my sister and her husband can't get food deliveries either. I've managed to get a slot with Ocado in a couple of weeks and I'm ordering food for both of us and when it arrives, she will have to drive over to come and pick it up.


Absolutely COPD is a life limiting illness which effects the respiratory system.

It shouldn't be people like yourself, again with Diabetes, that can be affected by the respiratory problems.

I can see why we can't shield everyone. It won't help the curve, it will lead to another wave so to speak which we don't want.

There just doesn't seem to be any logic who gets classed as vulnerable or not.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> I've had fibro for 30 years or so and take regular painkillers. Over the years I have learnt how to manage most of the other symptoms and so very rarely go to see my GP. I'm not suprised I haven't had a letter as he probably would have forgotten who I am. It still doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable and petrified of going out as I know if I catch the virus it will probably kill me. All I want is a delivery slot every 2 weeks. I'll be a happy bunny then to stay at home until it's safe for me to go out.


I have fibromyalgia, chronic Lyme disease and degenerative arthritis. Hypothyroid with a goiter. I am also a few months short of 60 years old. I am being as careful as I can be for myself (though I suspect I have already had a mild dose of Covid-19)

I get out for my 2 mile hike almost every single day, I hike in a spot where I almost never see any one else. I go to the store and post office (to pick up my mail) once every 14 days. I don't allow anyone to come to my home. (not that I ever would anyway haha) Yesterday I couldn't hike because it was pouring rain and high winds. I did 36 laps (up and down is one lap) on my stairs in my house. My cats hate it when I do that.

Today it is snowing and windy, so I didn't go up to my usual hike, I went to one that is not so high in elevation and not so remote, a local city park has some higher trails, so I hiked on those in the snow. I didn't see a soul until I came back down and saw a woman walking her dogs at the park level.

On a very bright note, on my way home this morning I thought to check my road side mail box. I don't check it often because I use a post office box, so nothing comes here but junk. Imagine my surprise to find a bag of Reese's chocolate Easter candies and a little card from a neighbor I've never met, or even seen, who lives across the street and two doors down. The note read that they were embarrassed they'd never introduced themselves before, with their names and phone number and the offer that I call them if I ever need any help or shopping. How about that!

PS I did some cheer spreading myself this morning. I had to mail something so I went to the drive through mail box at the post office. In addition to my letter, I tossed in a note I wrote that said "Thank you Postal Workers". Funny how I did that on the same day I later came home to find chocolate in my own mail box!

My stress is a super roller coaster. Writing the note helped me feel more cheerful this morning. Getting the treats made me tear up. In a good way.


----------



## MilleD

Excellent question answering by Matt Hancock to the idiot journalists on the briefing this evening.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/McVitie-s-...e&pageci=a6b2fb8f-1f3d-4df0-ba4a-bb44e1981e70
> 
> There you go x


Did you notice they're out of stock:Hilarious


----------



## Cully

lorilu said:


> Imagine my surprise to find a bag of Reese's chocolate Easter candies and a little card from a neighbor I've never met, or even seen, who lives across the street and two doors down.


Little things really *do* mean a lot.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Did you notice they're out of stock:Hilarious


They weren't when I looked


----------



## Elles

The Range bought and stocked freezers so it could stay open in the lockdown.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> The Range bought and stocked freezers so it could stay open in the lockdown.


All electrical shops had to close. The Range was open the same as Wilkos, under the term 'hardware store' which are allowed to stay open.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> Give him this then...
> View attachment 436204


For some reason only just got notification for this tag now.. 
Sent this pic via text, he says thanks!


----------



## O2.0

This is interesting! Using dogs to detect covid-19

https://www.citylab.com/life/2020/0...MIcR0Rt902-yS7gbUuERcl6gePUs82kvbREPKOjFXGHhQ


----------



## Sacrechat

Just received this:

GOV.UK coronavirus support: You registered as clinically extremely vulnerable, but had not received a letter from the NHS to confirm this. We'll share your details with the NHS.

If the NHS defines you as clinically extremely vulnerable, the NHS will contact you. Your GP will be informed.

If you told us you need help getting food and supplies, but you are not on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, we'll share your details with supermarkets. They may be able to help.

If you need support urgently, please contact your local authority.

For the latest information, visit www.gov.uk/coronavirus


----------



## SbanR

O2.0 said:


> This is interesting! Using dogs to detect covid-19
> 
> https://www.citylab.com/life/2020/0...MIcR0Rt902-yS7gbUuERcl6gePUs82kvbREPKOjFXGHhQ


I heard this mentioned very briefly a while ago


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> Just received this:
> 
> GOV.UK coronavirus support: You registered as clinically extremely vulnerable, but had not received a letter from the NHS to confirm this. We'll share your details with the NHS.
> 
> If the NHS defines you as clinically extremely vulnerable, the NHS will contact you. Your GP will be informed.
> 
> If you told us you need help getting food and supplies, but you are not on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, we'll share your details with supermarkets. They may be able to help.
> 
> If you need support urgently, please contact your local authority.
> 
> For the latest information, visit www.gov.uk/coronavirus


That's what I had about a week ago, not heard anything more yet


----------



## lullabydream

Fingers crossed for both of you @Sacremist and @Siskin


----------



## lorilu

I saw some posts listing UK stats, Here's USA as of this moment: (of course these numbers are only tested cases)

World / Countries / United States
Last updated: April 10, 2020, 23:04 GMT
 
*







*
* United States *
*Coronavirus Cases:*
501,272
*Deaths:*
18,666
*Recovered:*
27,239

And by state with New York being far the worst because of NYC:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


----------



## kimthecat

Where can we get these from!


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Where can we get these from!


Just regular pool noodles by the look of it


----------



## lorilu

Jesthar said:


> Just regular pool noodles by the look of it


He's wearing an oxygen tank as well, shouldn't be out at all.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> It shouldn't be people like yourself, again with Diabetes, that can be affected by the respiratory problems.


It is a respiratory disease and the lungs are affected hence breathlessness is a symptom for most. 'Most' people have symptoms for a few days and the body kicks into gear to fight it, successfully and then things go back to normal. As I understand it, in some cases it's the body which doesn't stop the fight and over reacts which leads to the complications. It's an autoimmune problem so anyone with an existing autoimmune condition is particularly at risk. That's why there are conditions on the list for shielding which don't appear to have any obvious connection with the lungs.


----------



## kimthecat

or these :Hilarious


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> It is a respiratory disease and the lungs are affected hence breathlessness is a symptom for most. 'Most' people have symptoms for a few days and the body kicks into gear to fight it, successfully and then things go back to normal. As I understand it, in some cases it's the body which doesn't stop the fight and over reacts which leads to the complications. It's an autoimmune problem so anyone with an existing autoimmune condition is particularly at risk. That's why there are conditions on the list for shielding which don't appear to have any obvious connection with the lungs.


No I understand that, I was talking about specific examples why they were so important. In context of individuals who have had to fight, I could have picked @Lurcherlad whose OH is having chemo as an example.. Whose 'fight' to get help has put her on the second wave.
I could have explained fully about people who suffered with MS no one has mentioned having MS here. I have mentioned previously about being immunocompromised need to be on the list


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've just got my letter from the government saying I'm vulnerable, so we both have one now.

I'll shall still going shopping once a week but shall go in the afternoon when it's quieter, Next door would help but she is a council career and is on call from 7am till 10pm and I don't to her any extra work unless I have to.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> I was talking about specific examples why they were so important. In context of individuals who have had to fight, I could have picked @Lurcherlad whose OH is having chemo as an example.. Whose 'fight' to get help has put her on the second wave


I guess they have the stats on who/what conditions are most vulnerable, or maybe it's just an admin nightmare and they're rolling it out as fast as possible.
It is a very serious concern. I saw an article yesterday (wish I'd saved the link) which was discussing how to calculate how many of the deaths will actually be extra on top of those which would happen anyway. It gave the staggering statistic from one day when deaths were (around) 800 of which (only) 43 were not known to have any underlying condition.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> I guess they have the stats on who/what conditions are most vulnerable, or maybe it's just an admin nightmare and they're rolling it out as fast as possible.
> It is a very serious concern. I saw an article yesterday (wish I'd saved the link) which was discussing how to calculate how many of the deaths will actually be extra on top of those which would happen anyway. It gave the staggering statistic from one day when deaths were (around) 800 of which (only) 43 were not known to have any underlying condition.


I do think it must be a nightmare too. You obviously must have to look surely at each individual cases too. How one person may react, is different to another.
Of course with all stats and the science behind everything, there will always be that biology doesn't read text books. Which is why lockdown rules matter, from social distancing, to shielding, to the very basic hand washing and not getting complacent as time goes on. Which by the looks of my local Tescos, complacency is all around.


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=542032373362649


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've just got my letter from the government saying I'm vulnerable,


Im waiting for the invulnerable letters.....I demand to be first on the list!!:Hilarious


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Of course with all stats and the science behind everything, there will always be that biology doesn't read text books


There will which is where the viral load thing comes in at a guess. There are enough stats around though. New York published figures are broken down and over 96% of fatal cases have underlying conditions. Not sure if age alone is considered one, think it might be but they have it at over 65 whereas we're sticking at over 70 aren't we?


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> There will which is where the viral load thing comes in at a guess. There are enough stats around though. New York published figures are broken down and over 96% of fatal cases have underlying conditions. Not sure if age alone is considered one, think it might be but they have it at over 65 whereas we're sticking at over 70 aren't we?


Male vs Female has also been noted too. Again is this pure biology or lifestyle choices.

There are only so many things statistics can do, and only so many variables that can currently only be analysed. With underlying health problems these are ones that are diagnosed... Of course I hope autopsies are carried out on those who are classed as not having any underlying health issues. Although things can be missed.. Hence why in some cases am thinking crime for example it's a second autopsy or third that finds something. Humans can only do their best.

Many people can take years getting a diagnosis of something serious, am talking of serious conditions. Others can get diagnosis that they are unsure they actually have the condition.

Have been looking at all the science based evidence, but no one seems to agree greatly. Especially on what I would deem an important factor such as those who are asymptomatic. Dr Faucii in the USA states its probably 50% which is worrying. Definitely not picked a figure out of the air, and has looked at data. Whereas here in the UK the suggested amount was less than 10%. Its very worrying. Of course this is why testing for the antibodies is important, just as true numbers of who actually has the virus. We don't have any, and many scientist can't agree on either.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Male vs Female has also been noted too


I'd forgotten that one but yes it's a big factor. I don't think we can deny such obvious stats on the 'who' but the 'why' will take some time to work out.


----------



## gskinner123

I too am confused. I filled in my details on the gov 'vulnerable' list, not really knowing if I am or not - I have an auto immune thyroid condition and a long history of x3 separate episodes of pulmonary embolism/hospitalisation/treatment for lung damage.

My partner has asthma and high blood pressure. Shopping is our biggest problem and we no longer can manage to find a delivery slot.

I am confused... if anyone can help answer a few questions!.... I had a text from .gov saying I needed my GP to confirm that I should be on the list. My surgery claim no knowledge of how to do this, referred me to 111 who referred me back to my GP.

If I am meant to be isolating for 12 weeks, I would prefer my partner to be isolating also due to his health conditions and the fact that if he contracts it then I doubtless will too.

Spoken to both supermarkets we usually have deliver and both have said that even if I were on the vulnerable list, I wouldn't qualify for a priority delivery slot as I have someone at home to shop for me.

No idea whether I should be on the list, but there would apparently seem no point in being on it and neither does my GP surgery have an idea of the process?!


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> I'd forgotten that one but yes it's a big factor. I don't think we can deny such obvious stats on the 'who' but the 'why' will take some time to work out.


To be honest a lot of the stats are focused on death, I do like the icu ones, although they don't give the fuller story of everyone being admitted who may be needing some oxygen support, not needing ICU but could be on the cusp. Many I would suspect are in the 'healthy, varied age bracket of adulthood'. We just can't be clear, some might be in and out sooner than expected, some might be experiencing sepsis, and be quicker to worry, quicker to get treatment. It can work quickly if noted quickly. We just don't know. The stats really in all of this is telling us, stay at home, follow the guidance.


----------



## Sacrechat

gskinner123 said:


> I too am confused. I filled in my details on the gov 'vulnerable' list, not really knowing if I am or not - I have an auto immune thyroid condition and a long history of x3 separate episodes of pulmonary embolism/hospitalisation/treatment for lung damage.
> 
> My partner has asthma and high blood pressure. Shopping is our biggest problem and we no longer can manage to find a delivery slot.
> 
> I am confused... if anyone can help answer a few questions!.... I had a text from .gov saying I needed my GP to confirm that I should be on the list. My surgery claim no knowledge of how to do this, referred me to 111 who referred me back to my GP.
> 
> If I am meant to be isolating for 12 weeks, I would prefer my partner to be isolating also due to his health conditions and the fact that if he contracts it then I doubtless will too.
> 
> Spoken to both supermarkets we usually have deliver and both have said that even if I were on the vulnerable list, I wouldn't qualify for a priority delivery slot as I have someone at home to shop for me.
> 
> No idea whether I should be on the list, but there would apparently seem no point in being on it and neither does my GP surgery have an idea of the process?!


My GP surgery has no idea either. It's all a bit of a shambles tbh!


----------



## Nonnie

Ive come to the conclusion that they dont consult your GP (imagine the logistics behind that), they just take your word for it and pass on your email address to the supermarkets. If you state you have no one to help you get groceries or have dietary requirements, you get your details passed on.

If you are already registered, you will get priority access to slots.


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## havoc

gskinner123 said:


> No idea whether I should be on the list, but there would apparently seem no point in being on it and neither does my GP surgery have an idea of the process?!


My daughter's first communication was from her GP and it was a GP on breakfast tv talking about the extra workload of the requirement for them to identify the vulnerable. She definitely gave the impression it was some sort of official directive.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://likebalaton.hu/telepules/ba...edium=showrss&utm_campaign=likebalaton_ajanlo

*So disinfect your car during an epidemic*


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## kittih

Magyarmum said:


> https://likebalaton.hu/telepules/ba...edium=showrss&utm_campaign=likebalaton_ajanlo
> 
> *So disinfect your car during an epidemic*


All good points. I am working on the principle that as I am only driving anywhere for one reason (groceries) as often as once a week to 12 days any virus will be long deactivated. Saves having to go shopping more regularly to buy extra cleaners to wipe down the car.


----------



## MollySmith

Cambridge team develop 90 minute test

I've also seen a video from someone who looks to be from Cambridge University NHS saying that staff and their families are being tested at the hospital here at Addenbrookes hospital using the test invented, but I want to check the source first but if it's true then I hope it's a glimmer of hope on another sad day, that I'll be honest has had me in tears for most of it.
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/202...an-diagnose-covid-19-in-less-than-90-minutes/


----------



## catz4m8z

Apparently they have opened drive thru testing centres for NHS staff...not sure where that leaves you if you dont drive though!:Bored


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Apparently they have opened drive thru testing centres for NHS staff...not sure where that leaves you if you dont drive though!:Bored


It's not like you can borrow a car or go with someone else


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m sure there will be alternative arrangements made.


----------



## MollySmith

Other good news, 2000 visors made in a week for NHS 
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-engineers-build-more-2000-18038914


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well done Mercedes and the other seven F1 teams based in the UK. with more help for the NHS
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52189430


----------



## Siskin

Just heard on the news that Boris has been discharged from hospital. Hope he takes it easy and doesn’t end up relapsing because he’s done too much


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Just heard on the news that Boris has been discharged from hospital. Hope he takes it easy and doesn't end up relapsing because he's done too much


Thats good news. Did it say where he would be staying?


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> Thats good news. Did it say where he would be staying?


I think they said he'd be staying at chequers as he recovers, and slowly get back into working


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> https://likebalaton.hu/telepules/ba...edium=showrss&utm_campaign=likebalaton_ajanlo
> 
> *So disinfect your car during an epidemic*


Having somewhere to drive would be nice. I miss my car.


----------



## DogLover1981

I just saw around 20 motorcycles go by my place. O.O


----------



## mrs phas

DogLover1981 said:


> I just saw around 20 motorcycles go by my place. O.O


pretty easy to be 2m apart on a moving motorbike
jumping to conclusions about what might or might not happen when they stop, isnt helpful to any one


----------



## Nonnie

mrs phas said:


> pretty easy to be 2m apart on a moving motorbike
> jumping to conclusions about what might or might not happen when they stop, isnt helpful to any one


Not exercise or an essential journey though, is it?


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> jumping to conclusions about what might or might not happen when they stop, isnt helpful to any one


All she said was that there were 20 motorcycles going by their house. No other conclusions were made.


Nonnie said:


> Not exercise or an essential journey though, is it?


@DogLover1981 isn't in the UK, they're in the US. Different states have different restrictions.

Could be a bunch of irresponsible bikers out joyriding, could be a bike club off to pack and deliver meals for a food bank. 
Or a combination of non-essential travel for an altruistic reason.

I'm just gonna sit here eating another chocolate egg while I judge posters for judging strangers


----------



## Nonnie

O2.0 said:


> @DogLover1981 isn't in the UK, they're in the US


I did not know that.

Im still gonna judge though, simply as the motorbike traffic has increased a huge amount since the sun came out - numerous accidents already this bank hol. Same with cyclists; they have removed the barriers blocking access to a famous stretch of road repeatedly the last few days.

Hoping that now BoJo has experienced Covid-19 first hand, he might implement stricter lock down rules. Life as usual where i live as we have zero police presence.


----------



## MollySmith

It is good that another person gets to leave hospital, I hope he recovers, that we can get answers and he can be a decent father and partner. I find it very hard to wish the pm well beyond that when so much to learn from Italy and our death toll has now exceeded theirs - remember when we looked on in horror? Boris only recently boasted of shaking hands with Covid victims, Christ knows who else is infected. I’d be a liar to say anything else. I completely understand that any party would struggle but to make him into hero or martyr with clapping etc when he opted to vote against a fair wage to those who nursed him would be disingenuous (colleagues of my sister in law who were all banned from speaking to the media since early Feb..) One might have hoped the shock of it might stop his odious father going to his second home in Somerset from London. Sadly it didn’t.. but I’m sure he’s not alone in having gung-ho parents.


----------



## MollySmith

Nonnie said:


> I did not know that.
> 
> Im still gonna judge though, simply as the motorbike traffic has increased a huge amount since the sun came out - numerous accidents already this bank hol. Same with cyclists; they have removed the barriers blocking access to a famous stretch of road repeatedly the last few days.
> 
> Hoping that now BoJo has experienced Covid-19 first hand, he might implement stricter lock down rules. Life as usual where i live as we have zero police presence.


My husband is a biker and his lot have packed bikes away, all chapters or groups have but I imagine there might be a few fair weather 'biker' about. However I know a few of my husband's friends have volunteered for delivery work. Our Co-op delivery - when we able to get one - came by motorbike! But we've had about the same volume of mopeds and 2 strokes going around like wasps in a jar until today which makes me wonder if they are people working. Hard to tell.

We still have cyclists in Cambridge, most exercising but I've stopped as I'm scared of them getting too close.


----------



## DogLover1981

I'll probably be avoiding going outside until later tonight because of these idiotic motorcyclists. I could see that a good number didn't even have helmets. There isn't a law requiring helmets in my state. Supposedly one should have a distance of at least 60 feet (18 meters) from others when riding a bicycle and God knows what the distance would be for a motorcycle with how fast some drive. Too, this virus can stay airborne for up to three hours. O.O


----------



## Nonnie

MollySmith said:


> My husband is a biker and his lot have packed bikes away, all chapters or groups have but I imagine there might be a few fair weather 'biker' about. However I know a few of my husband's friends have volunteered for delivery work. Our Co-op delivery - when we able to get one - came by motorbike! But we've had about the same volume of mopeds and 2 strokes going around like wasps in a jar until today which makes me wonder if they are people working. Hard to tell.
> 
> We still have cyclists in Cambridge, most exercising but I've stopped as I'm scared of them getting too close.


We have groups of fair weather bikers - no way are 10-20 bikers all volunteering at the same time in the same direction; but also an increased amount of off roaders as there are a lot of green lanes nearby. Hear them a bloody mile off.


----------



## O2.0

A biker group in Ohio delivering groceries to the elderly:
https://abc6onyourside.com/news/loc...ty-bikers-collect-food-and-deliver-to-elderly

WASHINGTON COURT HOUSE, Ohio - The VFW Riders post 3762 is pitching in to help take a week's worth of groceries to elderly and disabled people in Fayette County during the coronavirus crisis.

We are highlighting our helpers - a group of veterans who are beginning their second week of collections after serving 50 households on Saturday. "We have to do something. We have people living in cars. So many are in need. Many of them are 75 years old or more and some are disabled," said Duke Hanscel, Commander of VFW Riders post 3762.

The group is collecting donations to purchase food from area stores. They have received donations from Florida, Kentucky and all over Ohio. The group is planning to continue the home delivery service on Saturdays through April and if needed into May.

"We have so many people who can't get to the stores or those who are afraid to be out of their homes because they could be more susceptible to the virus. So we are helping," said Hanscel. "My own mother is in her eighties and worried about going out to shop."

The original plan was for $500 to be spent, but Hanscel said the limit was increased to $1,000 a week due to the number of calls they received from people needing assistance.

The veterans said they are working with the local health department so that they are working in a safe manner and taking all precautions. Hanscel said they are taking their temperatures and keeping a log. They also are wearing face masks and gloves.

Hanscel said they are getting more calls, so they are teaming up with Southern Ohio Buckeye Bikers, who have started a GoFundMe account.

Local restaurant Ranchers is also working with the group by donating meals to the elderly and disabled. "All they need to do is pull up to the drive-through and tell them they are part of this effort. They will get a meal and not even have to get out of their car," Hanscel said.


----------



## O2.0

I'm part of a group preparing and delivering meals (not a motorcyclist group). There are more than 20 of us. We distance as best we can, wear masks and gloves, sign in so there is a record of who was around who.

As I've been reminded, the US is not the UK. We live in a high poverty area. People have lost their income and no one has received the promised stimulus check yet. Kids who ate breakfast and lunch at school are now stuck at home with parents who may have lost all forms of income. So we prepare meals and use school buses to deliver them to locations around the community. 

Not only is it helpful for our hungry kids, it keeps our bus drivers and cafeteria workers earning a paycheck, and it prevents food that is prepared and packaged for bulk distribution from going to waste as has happened in so many other places.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## havoc

Cambs police have covered themselves in glory yet again
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...e-police-tell-addenbrookes-staff-18081286.amp


----------



## MollySmith

There is a longer statement from Cambs Police in this article here (I detest the Cambridge News/Cambridgeshire Live, it's got a reputation for click bait headlines).
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co...concerns-from-nhs-staff-and-shoppers-9106339/


----------



## havoc

So are you saying it didn’t happen? There’s little doubt it’s the odd ‘misguided’ individual rather than force wide policy but somebody at the top needs to get a grip. Don’t put out a public statement - which doesn’t deny it you’ll note, have a stern word with the individuals involved.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> So are you saying it didn't happen? There's little doubt it's the odd 'misguided' individual rather than force wide policy but somebody at the top needs to get a grip.


no, I thought the Cambridge Independent article with the full statement might be helpful. It's clear it happened, he said so. I agree- someone needs to sort this out. But, nope didn't say it didn't happen!


----------



## MollySmith

Not aimed at anyone here but something we might all benefit from reading - me included - is this article on why we must be careful not to judge without all the facts (may tweet to Cambs police lol!) 
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/mi...an-do-more-harm-than-good/ar-BB12v59I?ocid=sf


----------



## havoc

There are individuals in the police who are enjoying this FAR too much. They aren't personalities who are safe to be entrusted with police powers.
Half the problem is that they don't have the usual crimes to deal with so they're looking for trouble and even creating it. Things like domestic abuse are increased but burglary, shoplifting, twoking, common assaults, traffic offences etc. are all way down.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> It is good that another person gets to leave hospital, I hope he recovers, that we can get answers and he can be a decent father and partner. I find it very hard to wish the pm well beyond that when so much to learn from Italy and our death toll has now exceeded theirs - remember when we looked on in horror? Boris only recently boasted of shaking hands with Covid victims, Christ knows who else is infected. I'd be a liar to say anything else. I completely understand that any party would struggle but to make him into hero or martyr with clapping etc when he opted to vote against a fair wage to those who nursed him would be disingenuous (colleagues of my sister in law who were all banned from speaking to the media since early Feb..) One might have hoped the shock of it might stop his odious father going to his second home in Somerset from London. Sadly it didn't.. but I'm sure he's not alone in having gung-ho parents.


I glad he has recovered (not that I can stand the man) I only hope now he has experienced how brilliant the NHS is, after this is all over will he expect them much more and treat them as they deserve.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> There are individuals in the police who are enjoying this FAR too much. They aren't personalities who are safe to be entrusted with police powers.
> Half the problem is that they don't have the usual crimes to deal with so they're looking for trouble and even creating it. Things like domestic abuse are increased but burglary, shoplifting, twoking, common assaults, traffic offences etc. are all way down.


I have a good friend who is a police officer who has been spat on, coughed at and is working extra shifts with no extra protection so I'll refrain from commenting further, other than to say it would be a fool who looks for more contact with the public at this time.

ironically your words reminded me of the cabinet....


----------



## Lurcherlad

There are always a small number of bad apples in any basket.

Thankfully, the majority have the very best of intentions.


----------



## kimthecat

havoc said:


> There are individuals in the police who are enjoying this FAR too much. They aren't personalities who are safe to be entrusted with police powers.
> Half the problem is that they don't have the usual crimes to deal with so they're looking for trouble and even creating it. Things like domestic abuse are increased but burglary, shoplifting, twoking, common assaults, traffic offences etc. are all way down.


There are many really good cops out there and some not so good. I think its good they have cameras on their jackets!

Weve had incidences here and the police involved and I was accused of swearing . I asked several times What did I say and eventually she said I said pissing which I didnt. and pissing apparently is a swear word.

The police had to put up with a lot of crap from demonstrators these last few years , Brexit and climate change that caused chaos and they didnt deserve the criticism .


----------



## Psygon

Happy Paws2 said:


> I glad he has recovered (not that I can stand the man) I only hope now he has experienced how brilliant the NHS is, after this is all over will he expect them much more and treat them as they deserve.


His message where he praised the NHS and the care he received seemed very heartfelt . Maybe the first time I've totally believed what he said.

I too hope his first hand experience makes him and others value the NHS more than they have before.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I have a good friend who is a police officer


As is my neighbour (same force) who I do speak to across the garden fence. She is appalled at what those over enthusiastic individuals are doing for the reputation of the police.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

havoc said:


> Cambs police have covered themselves in glory yet again
> https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...e-police-tell-addenbrookes-staff-18081286.amp


Actually an NHS ID card isn't proof of essential travel. I know at least one NHS worker (because they were free with giving the the info) that has used their NHS card when just out for a drive and has suggested to one of colleagues who wanted to make an out of area visit (non work related) that they do the same. Perhaps one of the Police actually mentioned this fact to the person they stopped. There is often a grain of truth in reports like this.

As for Police being heavy handed .....well to me, it's quite simple - we're either in lockdown or we're not - if you are on essential business then no one should be concerned about being stopped and asked where they are going - to make the Police out as the baddies in this is very counter productive in my opinion.

J


----------



## kimthecat

Maybe the bad weather will keep people inside. Yesterday it thundered and hail stoned and today it is windy and cold.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> I have a good friend who is a police officer who has been spat on, coughed at and is working extra shifts with no extra protection so I'll refrain from commenting further, other than to say it would be a fool who looks for more contact with the public at this time.


I really feel the the Police men and women at the moment, they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. It be must be very hard to keep the idiots off our streets or from driving round the country in their cars when they should be staying at home.

They have a hard job lets get behind them and not criticize them.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> I really feel the the Police men and women at the moment.


me too. They are trying to police guidelines which alot of the time are open to interpretation. I mean if they see a crime being commited its fairly obvious but the lockdown rules are easy to make mistakes with. For example what if the police have a go at a group of 6 people hanging out together (not knowing they are a family who live together) or a person who goes out 4 times in one day (because they are looking out for elderly relatives or neighbours).
You can see how they could be accused of heavy handedness at times.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> They are trying to police guidelines which alot of the time are open to interpretation.


Hopefully not where shopping is concerned since the government has made it quite clear that if something is on the shelves and for sale then you're entitled to buy it. As my copper neighbour put it to me - why not let someone buy a pot of paint to decorate a room while stuck at home. The alternative could be he takes the frustration out on a partner.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Anyone thought that this virus has been around a lot longer than we have been told. 
I had a very bad cough over Christmas nothing unusual about that I always get them, but thinking back to Christmas I've never felt so ill with a cough, at one point I was that hot and coughed at much I made myself sick and my breathing was much worse than normal. OH goes on other forums and other people are saying the same, having been very ill over the Christmas period.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone thought that this virus has been around a lot longer than we have been told.
> .


Something similar round this way in mid feb. I think it would be impossible to say as alot of the symptoms are just the same as a cold or flu....well, unless you wind up in hospital on oxygen!


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone thought that this virus has been around a lot longer than we have been told.
> I had a very bad cough over Christmas nothing unusual about that I always get them, but thinking back to Christmas I've never felt so ill with a cough, at one point I was that hot and coughed at much I made myself sick and my breathing was much worse than normal. OH goes on other forums and other people are saying the same, having been very ill over the Christmas period.


My son had a bad cough etc in January, he just put it down to a dose of flu or a bad cold. He did visit us prior and after this 'bad cold'. I can't recall either of us having anything like a cough or cold prior to March so I've no idea if son has had the virus or if we had such mild symptoms and didn't notice it or what.


----------



## O2.0

There is some research pointing to the virus having been in the US (west coast) earlier than they originally thought. This is why we really need to ramp up testing including antibody testing. We had a bad virus going around in January here, folks had flu like symptoms but were testing negative for the flu. Could be now that all those folks who were sick back in January have covid-19 antibodies and are safe to be in the workforce and not get sick or infect others. 
They've made antibody testing available locally, but it's $70 per test. I don't see a lot of people lining up to get tested at that cost!


----------



## havoc

From what I've seen if you've had a cold then it wasn't Covid-19. Any cough since early December might (at a pinch) have been. It took China a while to firstly realise what was going on and then admit it to the outside world. Those are two separate delays to my mind, one of which is forgiveable and one not. There must have been people travelling the world to and from Wuhan for quite a while before it was recognised.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone thought that this virus has been around a lot longer than we have been told.
> I had a very bad cough over Christmas nothing unusual about that I always get them, but thinking back to Christmas I've never felt so ill with a cough, at one point I was that hot and coughed at much I made myself sick and my breathing was much worse than normal. OH goes on other forums and other people are saying the same, having been very ill over the Christmas period.


I had a week off work at the end of January started as a bad cough then became very tired and wasn't eating.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> I had a week off work at the end of January started as a bad cough then became very tired and wasn't eating.


That's just about classic isn't it? Textbook symptoms.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> They've made antibody testing available locally, but it's $70 per test. I don't see a lot of people lining up to get tested at that cost!


Do you have a reliable test? We're being told the longed for antibody tests have yet to prove reliable enough. Hard to know what to believe any more.


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> That's just about classic isn't it? Textbook symptoms.


At the time I though nothing of it. If I had those symptoms now I'd be panicking.

I was at a meeting on the Friday thinking 'I'm so hot I'm going to pass out'


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve been coughing a lot since January but I have been taking my temperature and I do have the slightly bleak advantage that I know what pneumonia is like so I’m fairly as in 95% sure it’s a cough but I haven’t walked Molly in case someone judges me and I get carted away


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> Do you have a reliable test? We're being told the longed for antibody tests have yet to prove reliable enough. Hard to know what to believe any more.


I've not heard anything about the tests themselves being unreliable, just that we don't know at what point in the illness (or not if you're asymptomatic) you develop antibodies. 
Either way, I can't bring myself to spend $70 on a test right now, never mind that I would have to drive 30 miles to get it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> My son had a bad cough etc in January, he just put it down to a dose of flu or a bad cold. He did visit us prior and after this 'bad cold'. I can't recall either of us having anything like a cough or cold prior to March so I've no idea if son has had the virus or if we had such mild symptoms and didn't notice it or what.


That's what made me think, I never had a cold just a horrendous cough and I'd cough for hours at times and hurt everywhere and felt dreadful, nothing like the normal flu symptoms, I've had that once and that was bad enough, but this was completely different.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> I've not heard anything about the tests themselves being unreliable, just that we don't know at what point in the illness (or not if you're asymptomatic) you develop antibodies.


A couple of weeks or so ago every govt briefing was full of how we were 'days away' from this antibody test being available. Then it went to it's not proved reliable and now there's a conspicuous silence on the subject.


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> A couple of weeks or so ago every govt briefing was full of how we were 'days away' from this antibody test being available. Then it went to it's not proved reliable and now there's a conspicuous silence on the subject.


The Chinese are flogging all sorts to other countries which have turned out to be useless or rubbish. Apparently the same thing is happening with masks, vizors and clothing, a big consignment arrives but stuff is missing and not what it says on the box. 
It's about time a way was found to make these items on a large scale in this country. Surely there must be some clothing factories in this country still.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> The Chinese are flogging all sorts to other countries which have turned out to be useless or rubbish. Apparently the same thing is happening with masks, vizors and clothing, a big consignment arrives but stuff is missing and not what it says on the box.
> It's about time a way was found to make these items on a large scale in this country. Surely there must be some clothing factories in this country still.


Burberry has been making clothing. There is also small dressmakers helping the cause making scrubs etc online. My friend has helped as much as she can with spare material. As she's in online group with others, so has passed on material too. She's doing her best. However they prefer polycotton, and her majority of stock is cotton.

This was a nice news article today
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/north-hykeham-school-makes-1000-4041397
There's been several similar too, small businesses, engineering firms have adapted to make for this and that, not necessarily for NHS but GPs and care homes, prisons, as their are different safety policies for PPE. Obviously standards matters and price am guess China has always been cheaper.

I absolutely agree we need to make these things here. I think people are trying but there aren't enough.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Burberry has been making clothing. There is also small dressmakers helping the cause making scrubs etc online. My friend has helped as much as she can with spare material. As she's in online group with others, so has passed on material too. She's doing her best. However they prefer polycotton, and her majority of stock is cotton.
> 
> This was a nice news article today
> https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/north-hykeham-school-makes-1000-4041397
> There's been several similar too, small businesses, engineering firms have adapted to make for this and that, not necessarily for NHS but GPs and care homes, prisons, as their are different safety policies for PPE. Obviously standards matters and price am guess China has always been cheaper.
> 
> I absolutely agree we need to make these things here. I think people are trying but there aren't enough.


I think it's the only way we can guarantee that the equipment is properly made and of the right quality. The Chinese just happily say yes to everything even though much has been substandard. We need to look after ourselves a bit more instead of going for the cheapest and often poor quality goods.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I've not heard anything about the tests themselves being unreliable, just that we don't know at what point in the illness (or not if you're asymptomatic) you develop antibodies.
> Either way, I can't bring myself to spend $70 on a test right now, never mind that I would have to drive 30 miles to get it.


I heard somewhere, (possibly from one of Andrew Cuomo's daily briefings) that the all the tests produced so far had proved to be unreliable.

An interesting article from MPR showing all the the things Trump promised to do and all that has been achieved so far.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/8327...n=news&utm_id=44811556&orgid=&t=1586784664127

*A Month After Emergency Declaration, Trump's Promises Largely Unfulfilled*


----------



## Dave S

Read the NPR article and it seems that he is the main originator of "Fake News" and I think it so bad that he does not take responsibility for his own inactions and greed.

As Trump has a very poor record of honesty and proactivity what do you think the chances are that he will be re-elected this year?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Dave S said:


> As Trump has a very poor record of honesty and proactivity what do you think the chances are that he will be re-elected this year?


Very high chance he will be re-elected I would say.


----------



## havoc

3dogs2cats said:


> Very high chance he will be re-elected I would say


Was thinking about this only yesterday. As it seems (at least from the news we get here) that some ethnic groups are over represented re complications/deaths from Covid-19 it may mean it has an effect on an election. Had meant to look into it more but hadn't got round to it yet.


----------



## StormyThai

Just a quick reminder to keep politics out of this thread please.
If you want to talk about elections then it's best to start a new thread


----------



## Dave S

StormyThai said:


> Just a quick reminder to keep politics out of this thread please.
> If you want to talk about elections then it's best to start a new thread


Sorry, forgot.


----------



## Cully

I'm thinking about getting some face masks (just in case) and wondered if there is a reliable source. There are lots online but it's difficult to know whether they are genuine or a scam. Opinions appreciated please.


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> Burberry has been making clothing. There is also small dressmakers helping the cause making scrubs etc online. My friend has helped as much as she can with spare material. As she's in online group with others, so has passed on material too. She's doing her best. However they prefer polycotton, and her majority of stock is cotton.
> 
> This was a nice news article today
> https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/north-hykeham-school-makes-1000-4041397
> There's been several similar too, small businesses, engineering firms have adapted to make for this and that, not necessarily for NHS but GPs and care homes, prisons, as their are different safety policies for PPE. Obviously standards matters and price am guess China has always been cheaper.
> 
> I absolutely agree we need to make these things here. I think people are trying but there aren't enough.


Volunteers making scrubs
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/volunteers-stitch-together-make-scrubs-for-nhs

And a few pages back I posted about a voluntary make space here producing PPE equipment. It's not lack of volunteers but material I think.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> Volunteers making scrubs
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/volunteers-stitch-together-make-scrubs-for-nhs
> 
> And a few pages back I posted about a voluntary make space here producing PPE equipment. It's not lack of volunteers but material I think.


But none can do as much as factory supply. Which we really need.

My home town I think many used to work in clothing type factories, these have been outsourced. We all know how so many things have been made in China tag on them..

I don't think all factories would be able to adhere to social distancing.

Machines to cut plastic for PPE are great, once programmed but again places like China have always mass produced and cost less than here. Obviously its hard to say where to go, where to source. There are places of course in the UK that have and do supply. How they are coping in all manufacturing industries I can't say for sure. From engineering points of view, some are doing fine, some not so good because they can't social distance.. You can't move huge machinery weighing tonnes for example. You can only do so much.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


>


:Hilarious

I was a bad girl today. I sat on a bench for a couple of minutes. Not noticed any police anywhere!


----------



## DogLover1981

There's almost a thousand known cases in my state now. I wish people would take the lockdown more seriously here, especially after seeing the motorcyclists.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> I was a bad girl today. I sat on a bench for a couple of minutes. Not noticed any police anywhere!


I'm lucky because halfway up my land I've a large walnut tree which is cool to sit under in summer. No leaves on it yet but the weather's been lovely and warm for the past few days and I go up there and have my morning coffee and afternoon tea and listen to the birds singing and generally chill out for half an hour or so.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> I'm lucky because halfway up my land I've a large walnut tree which is cool to sit under in summer. No leaves on it yet but the weather's been lovely and warm for the past few days and I go up there and have my morning coffee and afternoon tea and listen to the birds singing and generally chill out for half an hour or so.


Thats sounds lovely. Does it get very hot in summer where you are?


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> But none can do as much as factory supply. Which we really need.
> 
> My home town I think many used to work in clothing type factories, these have been outsourced. We all know how so many things have been made in China tag on them..
> 
> I don't think all factories would be able to adhere to social distancing.
> 
> Machines to cut plastic for PPE are great, once programmed but again places like China have always mass produced and cost less than here. Obviously its hard to say where to go, where to source. There are places of course in the UK that have and do supply. How they are coping in all manufacturing industries I can't say for sure. From engineering points of view, some are doing fine, some not so good because they can't social distance.. You can't move huge machinery weighing tonnes for example. You can only do so much.


My brother is an engineer and usually makes parts for F1 cars and they've changed their production line to PPE equipment, they can only do so much as you say with distancing. Bigger factories can do more, there are a few but like printing and publishing, it's easier (not always ethical) to off-shore.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> My brother is an engineer and usually makes parts for F1 cars and they've changed their production line to PPE equipment, they can only do so much as you say with distancing. Bigger factories can do more, there are a few but like printing and publishing, it's easier (not always ethical) to off-shore.


It's a tough call though...its really hard F1 can do this now proudly, they have great engineers and have produced brilliant CPAP machines. Plus... F1 is on hold. Am sure other manufactures would love to help, but still have other lines to fill, manufacturing is still going on where possible too. It can't just stop, go on hold to fill in the gap per se, it's a really tough call what can be done in the UK currently.

To be fair USA is pretty good as a rule for manufacturing, again I don't know if they can at the moment. News/media stories seem to say they 'can' not sure at what cost, as I know engineering isn't as health and safety alert as UK, or shall we say clean as here but they do work and seem to get the job done


----------



## samuelsmiles3

What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


----------



## kimthecat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


That looks fun. I wouldn't say they're complicated dance routines , more like Dad dancing than Strictly !


----------



## HarlequinCat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


Nowt wrong with them having a bit of fun! They certainly need it. I'm sure they have enough professionalism not to do it while on duty


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


Complicated dance routines? Did you even watch the video you posted? One of the clips was even labeled from the US - Virginia, nurses on their break dancing to alleviate stress. Geez how dare they!

Video was uploaded an hour ago with the quote that "we should be F###ing livid about this" from a user who shares conspiracy theories. Perhaps no the best choice of a share in a space we're trying very hard to keep accurate and helpful.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


----------



## Jesthar

Psygon said:


> His message where he praised the NHS and the care he received seemed very heartfelt . Maybe the first time I've totally believed what he said.


"The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made." (Jean Giraudoux)  In BoJos case, given his record on voting against the NHS, I'll wait to see practical evidence of his change of heart, such as proper pay rises, increased funding and the reversal of privitisation. Words are meaningless unless followed with action. 



Psygon said:


> I too hope his first hand experience makes him and others value the NHS more than they have before.


Amen to that! Personally I've long thought it should be a rule that no MP or their immediate family should be allowed private health treatment or to jump NHS waiting lists, that would give them a vested interest in keeping them well funded


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


Funny, I would think the lack of respect would be in criticizing these critical workers for trying to find ways to combat stress, and sharing conspiracy theory/made up click bait videos clearly meant to incite anger rather than be any way helpful to anyone.


----------



## lullabydream

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort if thing. Probably just me then.


If it wasn't for the ability to dance whilst working challenging behaviour.. Am not talking about a little bit of shoving here and there I don't think I would get through a day. Many people struggled through a day it wasn't easy.

Having been in hospitals a lot over the past year, it was the nurses and doctors who would have a little joke with me at the right times, the ones who knew smile when you needed it could her me through really hard times. Showed me real compassion when I needed it, and weren't all joking and laughing about my problems. I don't know how anyone would get through a day if they couldn't have a joke, fun or laugh with a friend to distract from the terrible things they are dealing with everyday.

I can't see one ill patient there. So it doesn't effect the patient no problem.


----------



## MollySmith

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


I wish I could find the Tweet by Matt Haig where he celebrated the dancing nurses and someone said the same as you and had much 'feedback' by numerous people not just nursing staff. Reasons included 
Morale 
Fun
Give thanks
Team spirit
PR
Makes hospital a bit less scary
Makes them human

God, next you'll be telling us they shouldn't clap anyone who survives when they leave. Almost as pointless at posting on a pet forum but it makes people feel better. They are humans not robots.


----------



## MollySmith

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


When you've done a shift in A&E, let us know.


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


Yep, just you... 

You work the kind of shifts and see the kinds of things they are, you NEED to relive the stress, so why not dance on your break? It's not like they've spent hours perfecting those routines, most of them only last a few seconds!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

There are people dying. Nurses and doctors included and they're singing, dancing, smiling and laughing.

I've never seen a reaction like this before. I don't get it.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Jesthar said:


> Yep, just you...
> 
> You work the kind of shifts and see the kinds of things they are, you NEED to relive the stress, so why not dance on your break? It's not like they've spent hours perfecting those routines, most of them only last a few seconds!


Yes, quite clearly it is just me.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

MollySmith said:


> When you've done a shift in A&E, let us know.


Yeah, after a hard day in A&E saving people's lives and seeing others die I'll have the zip to rehearse and perform this sort of nonsense.


----------



## Jobeth

Deleted


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> There are people dying. Nurses and doctors included and they're singing, dancing, smiling and laughing.
> 
> I've never seen a reaction like this before. I don't get it.


What would you prefer they do? Go home and down a bottle of whiskey?


----------



## MollySmith

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yeah, after a hard day in A&E saving people's lives and seeing others die I'll have the zip to rehearse and perform this sort of nonsense.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Mooning I needed a laugh today, honest that's hilarious! Thanks for making me giggle


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> There are people dying. Nurses and doctors included and they're singing, dancing, smiling and laughing.


And for every person dying, there are many more recovering. Going home well. That can be celebrated. If we all have to be doom and gloom all the time we'll never make it.

But seriously, just the fact that the video is labeled like this: "While the economy crashes and millions lose their jobs to 'save the health services', nurses are dancing for TikTok. We have every right to be f**king livid about this." 
What does that tell you about the purpose in sharing it? 
Is it trying to be supportive, informative, helpful, hopeful?
Or is it trying to anger folks?

And if it's the latter, what would be your purpose in trying to get others to join you in anger? 
This is really the bottom line - what is the purpose in sharing content? #thinkbeforeyoushare


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Jesthar said:


> What would you prefer they do? Go home and down a bottle of whiskey?





MollySmith said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Mooning I needed a laugh today, honest that's hilarious! Thanks for making me giggle


I'm pleased.


----------



## SusieRainbow

You would be amazed at what you needed to do to relieve the stress. I've worked some horrific shifts in nursing and midwifery, there is no way you can just switch off and go to sleep at the end of such a shift without some outlet. Nurses are first and foremost human beings, they get emotionally wrung out and the current Covid outbreak must be hell to cope with. As a Student nurse in the late 1960s during a bad flu epidemic I laid out 6 people during one shift who had succumbed. At the end of my shift I had the choice between going to my room in the nurses home and crying myself to sleep, ready to start again the next morning, or going out and forgetting about it for a couple of hours.
There is no wonder that the burn-out rate is so high in the nursing profession.
I assure you there is no disrespect to the suffering and dying intended by these dancers, it helps them to carry on.


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> You would be amazed at what you needed to do to relieve the stress. I've worked some horrific shifts in nursing and midwifery, there is no way you can just switch off and go to sleep at the end of such a shift without some outlet. Nurses are first and foreost human beings, they get emotionally wrung out and the current Covid outbreak must be hell to cope with. As a Student nurse in the late 1960s during a bad flu epidemic I laid out 6 people who had succumbed. At the end of y shift I had the choice between going to my room in the nurses home and crying myself to sleep, ready to start again the next morning, or going out and forgetting about it for a couple of hours.
> There is no wonder that the burn-out rate is so high in the nursing profession.
> I assure you there is no disrespect to the suffering and dying intended by these dancers, it helps them to carry on.


It's good to hear a voice of reason. Thank you for sharing some really personal stuff there.

edited. Not biting!


----------



## lullabydream

@samuelsmiles3
You do get that life and death is part of being a nurse and doctor. It's daily life. It's not just because of pandemic

Same as police, paramedics to name another two occupations that have to deal with death, more so than they would like but it's part of their job.

If people broke down every day, every time someone passed away, then they wouldn't last very long.

It's quite well known that police sometimes use dark humour to cope. My close a paramedic has told me a few tales of these cases. They have to, all the reality is too much.

It's already been stated by news articles that many my suffer with PTSD after this pandemic.

It's also been said in the media whether it's true or not, that there are rooms set aside where they can let their emotions go at this difficult time as they are being an emotional support more so than forever for loved ones. The NHS I am sure offer their staff good in house support as they don't just want staff to be physically fit but mentally too.

Currently if they need to dance, to make videos to say thank you for staying at home or reminding people to stay at home. Which is mainly what I have seen. I am all for it. Something to give them a break from the hard 12/13 hours shift, in uncomfortable PPE than so be it


----------



## O2.0

FWIW, we had a line of strong storms and tornadoes rip through our area last night. This morning while helping with food distribution we were joking about it and how it's hard to social distance when huddled together in a closet riding out the storm. Then we joked about how social distancing wasn't working either while neighbors were helping clean up after the storm. And joking about the storm itself.... You know, being human. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. Or sometimes you do both simultaneously. 

Anyone remember the scene from Steel Magnolias where the mom loses it at her daughter's funeral and one of the gals says 'here, hit Weezer' and they go from crying hysterically to laughing hysterically? That scene gets me every time. It's so real!!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

MollySmith said:


> It's good to hear a voice of reason. Thank you for sharing some really personal stuff there.
> 
> edited. Not biting!


Oh, you've just edited out the bit about "climate change untruths".

???


----------



## O2.0

Here's the clip if you want to laugh and cry


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> It's good to hear a voice of reason. Thank you for sharing some really personal stuff there.
> 
> edited. Not biting!


Don't understand this ?The not biting ?


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> Don't understand this ?The not biting ?


I've been caught up in @samuelsmiles3 posts before. Yes I have edited as it's largely a waste of time. I'm using the ignore button and off to ring my sister in law - a nurse at St Thomas's - and find out how many times she's danced whilst watching patients die.

Night all.


----------



## Jesthar

SusieRainbow said:


> Don't understand this ?The not biting ?


I think that was in reference to our video baiting poster, not you


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Night night, MollySmith.


----------



## O2.0

FWIW, I get being angry, confused, frustrated in these times. I just don't think directing any of that anger and frustration at health care workers is at all fair. Especially - as Brene Brown says so eloquently, if you're not in the arena getting your ass kicked.


----------



## Rafa

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


Well, how right you are.

How dare these Nurses/Doctors, having worked long, exhausting and harrowing shifts, desperately trying to save lives and cope against a constant incoming tide of sick people and having held the hands of the dying when relatives cannot be with them, find a small way of allowing themselves to smile for a few minutes?

I do so hope you are managing to cope with being at home, doing nothing whilst these selfish, dancing individuals enjoy themselves in the hospitals.

Perhaps we should all clap for you this coming Thursday?


----------



## kimthecat

When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

And when the broken-hearted people living in the world agree
There will be an answer, let it be
For though they may be parted, there is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Yeah, there will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

And when the night is cloudy there is still a light that shines on me
Shine until tomorrow, let it be
I wake up to the sound of music, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


----------



## lorilu

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


I found this very beautiful and deeply moving. I can't even imagine the stress they are under. That they can find some relief and joy in things like this, is a wonderful thing.


----------



## Happy Paws2

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What's with all these dancing nurses in this time of crisis. They have time to rehearse all of these complicated dance routines?


It's nice to see them let their hair down for a few minutes, they are working so hard they must be going crazy at times, they need to let their hair down all they would go mad. I found it very moving.


----------



## Cully

O2.0 said:


> FWIW, we had a line of strong storms and tornadoes rip through our area last night. This morning while helping with food distribution we were joking about it and how it's hard to social distance when huddled together in a closet riding out the storm. Then we joked about how social distancing wasn't working either while neighbors were helping clean up after the storm. And joking about the storm itself.... You know, being human. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. Or sometimes you do both simultaneously.
> 
> Anyone remember the scene from Steel Magnolias where the mom loses it at her daughter's funeral and one of the gals says 'here, hit Weezer' and they go from crying hysterically to laughing hysterically? That scene gets me every time. It's so real!!


There's a very fine emotional line between laughter and crying. I used to be a communal carer for disabled people, and know how hard it is mentally. Knowing that the person I am hugging now will probably be beyond comforting hugs on my next shift is distressing but you can't fall apart in front of the patient. I used to have a good howl sitting in my car before driving home, then put on a big fake smile for my family. If you didn't have some light relief you just wouldn't cope.


----------



## SusieRainbow

This seemed appropriate to post this morning, I painted it last night and will leave it somewhere when we walk the dogs later.


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> This seemed appropriate to post this morning, I painted it last night and will leave it somewhere when we walk the dogs later.
> 
> View attachment 436601


Love, love, love it.:Happy


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> Love, love, love it.:Happy


Thanks ! It weighs a ton so won't be carrying it far !


----------



## kimthecat

anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


Was that his house behind him? Very nice.

He was hoping for £1000 wasn't he? Impressive!


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


Not a small garden either 
Well done him


----------



## Psygon

kimthecat said:


> anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


I hadn't seen this. Wow!!!


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


I donated this morning well done to him.


----------



## O2.0

CNN is reporting a third of NHS staff and key workers have tested positive for Covid-19 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/uk/uk-coronavirus-nhs-one-third-test-positive-gbr-intl/index.html


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> CNN is reporting a third of NHS staff and key workers have tested positive for Covid-19
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/uk/uk-coronavirus-nhs-one-third-test-positive-gbr-intl/index.html


That's shocking.
News from care homes inst good either.They've only recently been receiving protection.

It looks like deaths have hit 12, 000 in the UK. That might be just deaths in hospitals.


----------



## Psygon

O2.0 said:


> CNN is reporting a third of NHS staff and key workers have tested positive for Covid-19
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/uk/uk-coronavirus-nhs-one-third-test-positive-gbr-intl/index.html


It's worth noting that it's actually a third of key workers who have been tested that have tested positive.

Not a third of all key workers.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We shouldn't have but we both went down to Sanisbury's this morning. I was going for "elderly hour" tomorrow but at 11am this morning OH said if you go down now I'll come with you. 

We got there and there wasn't much of a queue but as I was going past the doors on my scooter the security man called me over and let us go straight in and there was no queues at the tills coming out. We got everything we needed so no going out for another week. 

Just waiting for Argos to deliver my new sun lounger cover and a new sunny brolly so we have one each, so we'll be all set sitting out side with a nice glass of wine.


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> It's worth noting that it's actually a third of key workers who have been tested that have tested positive.


I was getting all excited for a moment that we'd suddenly ramped up testing - except the numbers were impossible


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just waiting for Argos to deliver my new sun lounger cover and a new sunny brolly so we have one each, so we'll be all set sitting out side with a nice glass of wine.


Good for you! Hope it makes you feel wonderful. This lockdown is about protection, not punishment.


----------



## cheekyscrip

kimthecat said:


> That's shocking.
> News from care homes inst good either.They've only recently been receiving protection.
> 
> It looks like deaths have hit 12, 000 in the UK. That might be just deaths in hospitals.


Yes, deaths in hospital.

"Community deaths" are to be added later.

France had a sudden surge and it was the outside hospital, mainly residential care deaths.

Meanwhile Spain and Italy see lockdown working...

Interesting how Sweden will do overall... but then Swedish people are actually a sensible lot on the whole and will mostly follow the guidelines...


----------



## O2.0

Psygon said:


> It's worth noting that it's actually a third of key workers who have been tested that have tested positive.
> 
> Not a third of all key workers.


Do you think that means with more testing the number might be lower, or higher?


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> It looks like deaths have hit 12, 000 in the UK. That might be just deaths in hospitals.


It's a horrid figure I know and can be scary but please keep in mind we don't know how many of these are 'extra' deaths or only a little hastened because of coronavirus. Those figures are the only numbers we have to latch onto, we don't have any notion of how many have recovered, nor those at huge risk who remain safe because we're staying home.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Do you think that means with more testing the number might be lower, or higher?


With more testing the number has to be higher. If we test everyone in the country then we'll find more cases.That doesn't mean the percentage would be higher though - might be might not.

And adding - I don't know the criteria for testing. If it's because an NHS worker has symptoms then that means two thirds of suspected cases tested are negative. If we're just getting through NHS employees in some systematic way and one in three are testing positive then there are an awful lot who are symptomless.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> Do you think that means with more testing the number might be lower, or higher?


This is worrying... 
Have discussed it before about asymptomatic 




Obviously I can't see getting everyone tested in the UK anytime soon. Currently I have only heard of those in the NHS anyway... Everywhere needs more way more testing


----------



## Psygon

O2.0 said:


> Do you think that means with more testing the number might be lower, or higher?





havoc said:


> With more testing the number has to be higher. If we test everyone in the country then we'll find more cases.That doesn't mean the percentage would be higher though - might be might not.


I think at the moment there will be more keyworkers being tested who are in roles where they interact with people who do have coronavirus. If testing is ramped up enough to test all keyworkers then maybe that percentage would be smaller.


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> I think at the moment there will be more keyworkers being tested who are in roles where they interact with people who do have coronavirus. If testing is ramped up enough to test all keyworkers then maybe that percentage would be smaller.


I was more interested in whether they showed symptoms or not. If it's just testing key workers for no other reason than that then a third positive is no bad thing for a longer term view. It does mean many people do get infected and are not too badly affected. Means we could reach herd immunity before a vaccine is available.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> you both _could _be asymptomatic and, therefore, spreading it


But not to other vulnerable people who choose to stay shielded.


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> so despite the one family member policy, and i beieve one if not bith of you having recieved texts/letters, you BOTH not only went out but were allowed in together
> Hypocrisy to the utmost amount, by all
> At least on a buggy YOU can sit for a queue
> and, of course
> neither of you were putting yourself or others in danger
> not only could either/both of you cotracted c-19
> but
> you both _could _be asymptomatic and, therefore, spreading it


Firstly we are careful, we both wore masks and kept away from everyone keeping the 2 meters away from others, took to Dettol wipes to wipe the shopping trolley before touching it and for our hands when we came out. We only go out once a week we never go otherwise.

They only let 2 people in the store if you need someone to help you.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> both _could _be asymptomatic and, therefore, spreading it


That's the problem no one knows this, they can't even test all NHS workers to keep anyone who is sick currently back.

Our specialists are listening to the WHO, who are dismissing this asymptomatic as minimal. They accept you can spread Covid-19 prior to becoming ill but not that people will never have symptoms.

Many of us still have to shop. Key workers such as those in supermarkets am grateful for going in to the shops where the risk may be higher than they believe working inside, doing everything they can but it can and is transmitted by aerolisation. They all still great people happily.

7% used to shop online, people are struggling to get slots now resorting to staying up late, or tactical shopping waiting for slots to open.

I could worry a lot or just do what I have to do, I still have to eat. Keep up with hand washing, do daily cleaning as I did.


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> I could worry a lot or just do what I have to do, I still have to eat. Keep up with hand washing, do daily cleaning as I did.


Keep in mind you either haven't caught it yet through all those weeks with no measures in place or have and don't know. I have suspected the latter is less likely than most of us would hope on an individual level but if so many are testing positive without symptoms then I'm more hopeful. It would after all push the percentage fatality rate way down.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Keep in mind you either haven't caught it yet through all those weeks with no measures in place or have and don't know. I have suspected the latter is less likely than most of us would hope on an individual level but if so many are testing positive without symptoms then I'm more hopeful. It would after all push the percentage fatality rate way down.


Absolutely..

I think sometimes it's good not to know or suspect I could have had it earlier though so I, or should I see 'we' as more of a nation don't get complacent.

As already stated, there has been Doctors, and other health professionals suspect its been around longer. Will probably never know for sure. Unless we look back over increase in deaths in areas. Am sure statistics people may well do afterwards, to give clearer figures.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> That's the problem no one knows this, they can't even test all NHS workers to keep anyone who is sick currently back.
> 
> Our specialists are listening to the WHO, who are dismissing this asymptomatic as minimal. They accept you can spread Covid-19 prior to becoming ill but not that people will never have symptoms.
> 
> Many of us still have to shop. Key workers such as those in supermarkets am grateful for going in to the shops where the risk may be higher than they believe working inside, doing everything they can but it can and is transmitted by aerolisation. They all still great people happily.
> 
> 7% used to shop online, people are struggling to get slots now resorting to staying up late, or tactical shopping waiting for slots to open.
> 
> I could worry a lot or just do what I have to do, I still have to eat. Keep up with hand washing, do daily cleaning as I did.


It's what I worry about going in for daily radiotherapy. I don't go anywhere else, but what if somehow I get the virus and am asymtomatic for a few days and I take it into the hospital and infect staff. They are all gowned and masked, but they could still touch something that I did. Consequently I spend all my time searching out bottles of sanitiser and not touching anything if I can manage it. I have to touch the table I lie on and the special acrylic sheet that's just for me, I watch them wipe everything down with special wipes afterwards. Only 8 more sessions


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> masks - proven not to keep you safe


You have just accused a member of spreading Covid-19. By the fact she could be asymptomatic, there is some protection with masks. All depends on how you use them, and importantly, how they are removed.

That fact the member has only just got the message, doesn't mean she is immune and that she hasn't got the virus. She has said she also struggled.

Surely the same argument you are using towards this member could have been used towards yourself when you yourself went shopping. Yes you did say the police said it was fine, but the police are not medical. They have no background on how virus spread, they are just told to up hold the law. No one said anything. Not even when you presumed I was talking to you. I didn't even realise you had gone out. I still didn't say anything, I didn't think it was my place to; I thought it was terrible that you had no choice at all and had to. If @Happy Paws2 had to go out to buy food, with her OH maybe there is good reason to, budget, limited help currently in the area, not everyone is prepared when a text comes through


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> It's what I worry about going in for daily radiotherapy. I don't go anywhere else, but what if somehow I get the virus and am asymtomatic for a few days


I think what we need to keep in mind is that those chances are less likely in the last three weeks, not more and you didn't get it previously.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> It's what I worry about going in for daily radiotherapy. I don't go anywhere else, but what if somehow I get the virus and am asymtomatic for a few days and I take it into the hospital and infect staff. They are all gowned and masked, but they could still touch something that I did. Consequently I spend all my time searching out bottles of sanitiser and not touching anything if I can manage it. I have to touch the table I lie on and the special acrylic sheet that's just for me, I watch them wipe everything down with special wipes afterwards. Only 8 more sessions


Honestly they do that as routine.

We can only do the best we can though.

Down to single digits. YIPPEE


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> its selfish through and through


Not so much. It would be very selfish of someone at low risk to be cavalier just because they are unlikely not to survive but would be a danger to others. If someone at high risk chooses that path then the person they're most likely to hurt is themselves.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Not so much. It would be very selfish of someone at low risk to be cavalier just because they are unlikely not to survive but would be a danger to others. If someone at high risk chooses that path then the person they're most likely to hurt is themselves.


I don't know... I don't think anyone wants to end up in hospital struggling to breathe and having to have support just because they think they are less at risk than older people, or those with underlying health issues. More likely to survive maybe, but at what cost.. Youtube, media etc is full of young and healthy people pleading to stay inside because they never thought it would happen to them


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Youtube, media etc is full of young and healthy people pleading to stay inside because they never thought it would happen to them


Otherwise known as survivors. I'm not saying it's pleasant. The figures are pretty clear though, the vast majority of fatalities are those in the designated at risk groups. If I were one I'd have the barricades up for sure and we're taking great care with the person in the family who is. If others in that category choose not to then they are taking risks but that is their choice.


----------



## mrs phas

lullabydream said:


> You have just accused a member of spreading Covid-19. By the fact she could be asymptomatic, there is some protection with masks. All depends on how you use them, and importantly, how they are removed.
> 
> That fact the member has only just got the message, doesn't mean she is immune and that she hasn't got the virus. She has said she also struggled.
> 
> Surely the same argument you are using towards this member could have been used towards yourself when you yourself went shopping. Yes you did say the police said it was fine, but the police are not medical. They have no background on how virus spread, they are just told to up hold the law. No one said anything. Not even when you presumed I was talking to you. I didn't even realise you had gone out. I still didn't say anything, I didn't think it was my place to; I thought it was terrible that you had no choice at all and had to. If @Happy Paws2 had to go out to buy food, with her OH maybe there is good reason to, budget, limited help currently in the area, not everyone is prepared when a text comes through


nope i said she *COULD* be asymptomatic and therefore *COULD *be spreading c-19
and
I didnt phone the police about shopping
I phoned the police about whether or not it would be seen as essential, for me to travel to Heathrow, to pick up my son returning from Japan
i certainly wouldnt waste police time with asking re shopping
between recieving my first text and now, thats the only time I have been out
I still have no one to do shopping
and i, at least, managed to have had one huge iceland delivery, that will keep me going for a while
but going out to shop, between march 23rd and now
once
and that was before i had my text
my auto immune problems, and the co morbids, keep me in and out of hospital enough
without risking my life, my sons life and even more nhs resources
especially at this time


----------



## Sacrechat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I just thought, though, in this time of crisis, with the country shut down, people banned from leaving home, people losing their jobs and incomes, nurses and doctors dying from Covid-19, and hospitals stretched to the limit there would be little time, energy (or respect) to practice and perform this sort of nonsense. Probably just me then.


Definitely just you! They are relieving stress, I don't see why they are expected to be machines.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> nope i said she *COULD* be asymptomatic and therefore *COULD *be spreading c-19


That's far less likely in someone with high risk factors though, the whole point is that they are way less likely to be asymptomatic carriers, maybe even impossible.


----------



## MollySmith

.....ello, I hope you're all bearing up okay?

sharing this heartfelt article from a nurse 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1586866725


----------



## Carsonspride

Mrs Phas. I am in Falkirk, Scotland. If I can help you or anyone else within a 10 mile radius with anything you need please let me know. It will be a pleasure to help.


----------



## O2.0

Tee hee


----------



## shadowmare

This is quite worrying. I've been wondering whether the virus stays in you after recovering and if it can "flare up" again. They didn't say though whether the people who tested positive again were showing symptoms or not... 
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/200413110301074.html

I had to selfisolate in the beginning of March because I had low fever, a slight cough and bad shortness of breath. To be honest, I was convinced that it was just a bad case of cold. Shortness of breath persisted for 3 weeks. I tried going for a light jog last week with the dogs and after running just 3 of my usual 5k I was so out of breath that every breath I took through my mouth made a whistling noise. If this is the long lasting consequence of having 'mild symptoms', then I just really hope that there will be no such thing as a flare up...

I do wonder how soon we will see anti-vaxxers movement against the vaccine once (hopefully soon) it will be offered. How many parents will be having Corona parties the way they have chickenpoxx parties? And more interestingly, how many anti-vaxxer grandparents will still go to visit their grandkids after this?


----------



## MollySmith

A group of health policy advisors have formed All The Citizens to ask questions and form reports. It's really worth looking them up as an alternative or contrast to the daily briefing though alarming as they expose the holes in the mysterious modelling.


----------



## O2.0

shadowmare said:


> I do wonder how soon we will see anti-vaxxers movement against the vaccine once (hopefully soon) it will be offered. How many parents will be having Corona parties the way they have chickenpoxx parties? And more interestingly, how many anti-vaxxer grandparents will still go to visit their grandkids after this?


I've noticed the celebrity anti vaxers have been awfully quiet recently - good. I hope they stay quiet and we can go back to appreciating science and the luxury of not seeing our children die of vaccine preventable diseases.

Sorry I can get quite ranty about anti vaxers. It's such an insufferably privileged stance. The resurgence of measles around the world angers me in ways I can't even explain. We should have eradicated measles by now, but no... Some Hollywood celebrity says don't vaccinate and children die needlessly. 
Sorry!  /rant!


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> I've noticed the celebrity anti vaxers have been awfully quiet recently


I'd noticed that too.

On the numbers of NHS staff who test positive, I've managed to find more info. Those numbers appear to be for those who have symptoms or have family members in the same household who do. One in three positives is our result for all our testing which is very limited and confined mainly to those admitted to hospital or those NHS workers.


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> I've noticed the celebrity anti vaxers have been awfully quiet recently - good. I hope they stay quiet and we can go back to appreciating science and the luxury of not seeing our children die of vaccine preventable diseases.
> 
> Sorry I can get quite ranty about anti vaxers. It's such an insufferably privileged stance. The resurgence of measles around the world angers me in ways I can't even explain. We should have eradicated measles by now, but no... Some Hollywood celebrity says don't vaccinate and children die needlessly.
> Sorry!  /rant!


me too, I'm glad you said that - I'm always a bit cautious not being a mum to a living child.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> It's a horrid figure I know and can be scary but please keep in mind we don't know how many of these are 'extra' deaths or only a little hastened because of coronavirus. Those figures are the only numbers we have to latch onto, we don't have any notion of how many have recovered, nor those at huge risk who remain safe because we're staying home.


This is the point that was being made on an article I read. Most of the deaths that happen due to coronavirus would have happened this year anyway (not a comfort to those that have lost people I know, so please forgive me if I sound blasé). All the lockdown is to achieve is all those people not succumbing all at the same time, and therefore making it impossible for the health services.

I've spoken to people who don't seem to be able to understand this concept.

As you say, we don't hear the good stuff. Which baffles me as despite as bad as we are, the press seem to want to spin it worse. Idiots that they are.


----------



## Psygon

MilleD said:


> This is the point that was being made on an article I read. Most of the deaths that happen due to coronavirus would have happened this year anyway (not a comfort to those that have lost people I know, so please forgive me if I sound blasé). All the lockdown is to achieve is all those people not succumbing all at the same time, and therefore making it impossible for the health services.
> 
> I've spoken to people who don't seem to be able to understand this concept.
> 
> As you say, we don't hear the good stuff. Which baffles me as despite as bad as we are, the press seem to want to spin it worse. Idiots that they are.


I can't find the original post by @havoc - but was this in relation to the latest weekly death figures from Office of National Statistics?

The figures do seem considerably higher than the average. I guess it depends now if over the course of the year the numbers balance out.

It feels very weird talking about people's lives as just numbers...


----------



## MollySmith

_Edited to add possible trigger here. Please read with caution as it does lay in on the line about worse case scenario post lockdown
_

Social distancing may continue until until 2022. This is about scientists warning that the UK government need to think beyond the summer and be aware of rolling lockdowns.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic


----------



## Psygon

kimthecat said:


> anyone seen Captain Tom on the news recently. He is 99 and is walking 100 lengths of his garden before he is 100 this month. Its to raise money for NHS and it seems he's raise a million pounds and more coming in. Well done Tom.


He's now up to over £4.5 million!


----------



## havoc

Psygon said:


> The figures do seem considerably higher than the average. I guess it depends now if over the course of the year the numbers balance out.
> 
> It feels very weird talking about people's lives as just numbers...


It does but it's the 'big picture'. I don't think for one moment deaths won't be higher overall but it's the* extra* deaths that will be the real figure for this virus and I do think they'll be overcooked to some extent. If we don't test we don't know. For example, my aunt died on 2/3/20 in a care home and the cause of death was put down as pneumonia. A month later I'm pretty sure she'd have been a coronavirus statistic whether she had it or not. The other thing is how many of the people in care homes would die in the next few months anyway?


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> I've noticed the celebrity anti vaxers have been awfully quiet recently - good. I hope they stay quiet and we can go back to appreciating science and the luxury of not seeing our children die of vaccine preventable diseases.
> 
> Sorry I can get quite ranty about anti vaxers. It's such an insufferably privileged stance. The resurgence of measles around the world angers me in ways I can't even explain. We should have eradicated measles by now, but no... Some Hollywood celebrity says don't vaccinate and children die needlessly.
> Sorry!  /rant!


The UK lost measles free status last year. There is concern that the current situation has interrupted the vaccination schedule for 117 million children and countries should be monitoring those that have missed it. 
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/p...tus-uk-sparks-widespread-concerns-19-08-2019/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...avirus-halts-vaccination-programs/ar-BB12CxUH


----------



## kimthecat

Psygon said:


> He's now up to over £4.5 million!


Oh flipping heck. Thats amazing. I think people are donating all over the world.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Social distancing may continue until until 2022. This is about scientists warning that the UK government need to think beyond the summer and be aware of rolling lockdowns.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic


Personally I find that a click bait story. Full of speculation and maybes.

The worst sort of 'journalism'. All that needs to be read is the last paragraph.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Personally I find that a click bait story. Full of speculation and maybes


That's exactly what modelling is. Those who admit it can only be a maybe are the honest ones surely.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> That's exactly what modelling is. Those who admit it can only be a maybe are the honest ones surely.


For what purpose right now? Revolution? Rebellion?

They're having a hard enough time keeping people in as it is. Telling them there's basically no point as this will carry on for another 2 years is just asking for trouble IMO.


----------



## kimthecat

I really enjoyed watching this today . Id love to be a drummer in a band.I wonder what his neighbours think!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250319769678409735


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> I really enjoyed watching this today . Id love to be a drummer in a band.I wonder what his neighbours think!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250319769678409735


Brilliant!

My OH is a drummer. And Welsh which I tend to keep quiet about. He's not quite so, um, flamboyant as Owain though  Mind you, his middle name is Wyn 

He has ensconced himself in my house for lockdown, but has only brought practise pads, not his whole kit thankfully


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> For what purpose right now? Revolution? Rebellion?
> 
> They're having a hard enough time keeping people in as it is. Telling them there's basically no point as this will carry on for another 2 years is just asking for trouble IMO.


How on earth does it tell people that lockdown is pointless? We know this isn't going to be 'a few weeks then back to normal', however much we might have hope for that at the start. If anything, it tells us that lockdown is the only way to fight this thing in the absence of a vaccine, or lots of people die due to lack of medical capacity. This is a very long haul scenario, lke it or not.

On the flip side, of course, I can understand why traditional big business/big money wants us up back to the grindstone as soon as possible. If this carries on long enough, not only are they losing a lot of money, but we might realise we don't actually need most of the tat they like to flog us. I fully expect them to start exploiting the 'cabin fever mentality to urge the end to lockdown before the necessary protection measures, the facilities and the workers in place for testing, tracing, isolating, care, treatment, equipment and protection.

Incidentally, both the USA and the UK could be ordering companies to start producing the necessary equipment - but they won't. They'll spend a shedload on protecting the economy, the banks, the stock market instead, but livesaving measures are being left to private enterprise and volunteers like my local hackspace. Now, if this were an actual physical war, how long do you think it would be before companies were required to switch to military production? But livesaving medical production? Nope, not worth it...


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> How on earth does it tell people that lockdown is pointless? We know this isn't going to be 'a few weeks then back to normal', however much we might have hope for that at the start. If anything, it tells us that lockdown is the only way to fight this thing in the absence of a vaccine, or lots of people die due to lack of medical capacity. This is a very long haul scenario, lke it or not.
> 
> On the flip side, of course, I can understand why traditional big business/big money wants us up back to the grindstone as soon as possible. If this carries on long enough, not only are they losing a lot of money, but we might realise we don't actually need most of the tat they like to flog us. I fully expect them to start exploiting the 'cabin fever mentality to urge the end to lockdown before the necessary protection measures, the facilities and the workers in place for testing, tracing, isolating, care, treatment, equipment and protection.


You might see that from your logical point of view. Those that refuse to follow the guidelines will think they aren't getting the results expected, and will think what's the point then.

Why post a story about being in this crap situation for another 2 years? To brighten people's already dark days? To help those with mental health issues? To talk someone down who already might be feeling suicidal??

It's click bait. Pure and simple.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> On the flip side, of course, I can understand why traditional big business/big money wants us up back to the grindstone as soon as possible.


Not just big business. Furlough is costing far more than govt anticipated. The guidelines were that people should work from home unless it was not possible to do so and the idea was for most of the country to still function. The only things ordered to close were customer facing/non essential retail premises where people would 'congregate'. Many businesses stayed functional at first as asked, instructed even on the HMRC website, but had to give up and furlough employees who could be at work. The public conciousness (and therefore the police) had translated it into nothing but permitted shops or 'essential' work. Two small and one medium sized businesses near me have closed and furloughed employees for no good reason though there is doubt they'll get paid because they are meant to show they can't continue. They are relying on the catch all 'not able to maintain social distancing (which isn't true). One of them at least probably won't survive.


----------



## new westie owner

I find it very hard at minute if I'm honest  don't switch news on to often as my 28 yr old son with autism and learning disabilities doesn't understand why he can't go out when other people are his life (and mine ) is very repetitive I'm trying my best to keep some routine for him but finding it hard  on plus side Bobby and Ellie are keeping me sane  stay safe everyone


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> They're having a hard enough time keeping people in as it is. Telling them there's basically no point as this will carry on for another 2 years is just asking for trouble IMO.


I don't think they are, most people are being very sensible. It won't be a case of things remaining like this for a solid two years, more an on off rolling programme to keep the rate of infection under some sort of control.


----------



## Calvine

havoc said:


> There are individuals in the police who are enjoying this FAR too much


My neighbour's daughter was told by PC Jobsworth that she could not possibly be exercising (walking alone in a park) as_ she was wearing a dress_. The temperature was about 70.


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> me too, I'm glad you said that - I'm always a bit cautious not being a mum to a living child.


I don't see why being a parent or not should make any difference, vaccination is a human issue, not a parenting one. In fact, pretending it is a parenting issue/choice is one of the fallacies of the anti-vaxxer movement. When your choices affect the population as a whole, it's no longer a 'personal' parenting choice, but a public health issue.

Regarding Covid-19 the conspiracy theories around a potential vaccine already abound  Bill Gates apparently is collecting everyone's DNA with the Covid-19 tests, and since he too owns the rights to the vaccine (how he managed to own the right to a vaccine that doesn't exist yet is pretty impressive) he is the one who stands to gain the most once everyone gets vaccinated. And of course there will also be some nefarious substance in the vaccine that he will use to control the masses. Wiley one that Bill Gates!

I've already seen shared on FB a 'poll' asking if the vaccine were to become available, would you get vaccinated, why or why not. Which is not an entirely idiotic question, it would be interesting to see if there is more or less protection with antibodies developed from a vaccine vs. actual contagion, that sort of thing. But that's not the intent of the poll. At least not that I can tell. It's intended to already start sowing seeds of doubt.

Sorry, said I was going to stop ranting about anti-vaxxers and anti-science!


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Regarding Covid-19 the conspiracy theories around a potential vaccine already abound  Bill Gates apparently is collecting everyone's DNA with the Covid-19 tests, and since he too owns the rights to the vaccine (how he managed to own the right to a vaccine that doesn't exist yet is pretty impressive) he is the one who stands to gain the most once everyone gets vaccinated. And of course there will also be some nefarious substance in the vaccine that he will use to control the masses. Wiley one that Bill Gates!


More entertaining than reality at the moment


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> More entertaining than reality at the moment


Here is one that showed up this morning, I reported it to FB as fake news, hopefully it will go away:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4373540216005535&set=gm.1613961915420630&type=3&theater


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> My neighbour's daughter was told by PC Jobsworth that she could not possibly be exercising (walking alone in a park) as_ she was wearing a dress_. The temperature was about 70.


There's a woman I see every morning as I walk Jack through the sports field .... she stands in the middle of the football pitch talking on her mobile phone for ages. She's often still there as I walk back that way 30 mins or more later.

I've decided she's walked the 100 feet along a footpath from the estate to chat to her lover! 

Obviously, she's stuck at home on lock down with her OH! 

She's not getting much exercise though - except her jaw 

That's a joke btw before anyone judges me for being judgy and jumping to conclusions!


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> You might see that from your logical point of view. Those that refuse to follow the guidelines will think they aren't getting the results expected, and will think what's the point then.
> 
> Why post a story about being in this crap situation for another 2 years? To brighten people's already dark days? To help those with mental health issues? To talk someone down who already might be feeling suicidal??
> 
> It's click bait. Pure and simple.


Would you prefer they lie?

That those not following the guidelines aren't getting the results they expect is because they are expecting the wrong results. And that often isn't their fault, it's because of irresponsible leadership and reporting by the real click-bait rags like your average tabloid, which has only compounded the shambolic leadership and mixed messages the UK (and the US even more so) has had from their central government throughout the crisis, which has been more about soundbites and jingoism than measured, informative updates.


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> More entertaining than reality at the moment


Maybe he's been reading Stephen King's Cell, or watching stuff like Kingsman.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Here is one that showed up this morning, I reported it to FB as fake news, hopefully it will go away:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4373540216005535&set=gm.1613961915420630&type=3&theater


According to my American cousin's wife, Bill Gates is in cahoots with Dr Fauci and the Chinese government, who have been employing terrorists in the US to coat the pavements with snot which gets on peoples shoes and spreads the disease..

Naturally I believe every word


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> According to my American cousin's wife, Bill Gates is in cahoots with Dr Fauci and the Chinese government, who have been employing terrorists in the US to coat the pavements with snot which gets on peoples shoes and spreads the disease..
> 
> Naturally I believe every word


It seriously blows my mind the stuff people are sharing as "worth thinking about" - people I have had conversations with and assumed they had more than a few brain cells to rub together. And that's not even starting with the utter madness the true conspiracy theory crazies get in to.
Not trying to get political, but I do blame our leadership. Trump represents the anti-intellectual, anti-science mentality and legitimizes it for many people. This mistrust in anyone who sounds educated and uses big words, Trump is very clearly the antithesis of that.
I keep waiting for the pendulum to swing back!

Some of the conspiracy theories are pretty darned entertaining though. I would enjoy them more if it weren't that so many people really do believe them


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Would you prefer they lie?
> 
> That those not following the guidelines aren't getting the results they expect is because they are expecting the wrong results. And that often isn't their fault, it's because of irresponsible leadership and reporting by the real click-bait rags like your average tabloid, which has only compounded the shambolic leadership and mixed messages the UK (and the US even more so) has had from their central government throughout the crisis, which has been more about soundbites and jingoism than measured, informative updates.


I'd rather they not report it at all. You haven't explained the benefit of this story yet.

And respectfully, I disagree that it has been shambolic in the UK. Perhaps at the beginning, but the daily briefings I have seen have been measured and informative. Perhaps not the answers that some people want, but that's because those answers don't exist yet.

The press seem to just want everyone to run around with their hands in the air panicking. And this isn't the time for their normal spin.

You won't get me to change my mind, this story is unneeded at the moment and purely there for shock value.


----------



## O2.0

Okay done ranting about conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers, and I went back and read the article in question. To be fair, most of the news outlets I'm reading are reporting essentially the same thing, that it's not going to be a lockdown lift and we're all set, back to business as usual. I also found the inserted video on infection and immunity informative. 

Personally, I think it's good to be honest about what the end of this particular crisis is going to entail, I do think it important for people to understand that just because lockdowns are lifted, doesn't mean the virus is gone. That there will be cycles of outbreaks. That we will probably have to have continued periods of semi-lockdown and careful social distancing practices until there is a vaccine and effective treatment. 

A vaccine won't just happen overnight or even within 18 months. It will take time to test its efficacy and safety. And then it will have to be mass produced and made available. And who are we going to make it available to, at what cost? Some people seem to think this vaccine is just around the corner and we'll just magically get everyone vaccinated and ta-da! All better. But reality isn't like that. Better to know the reality than have false hope.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Personally I find that a click bait story. Full of speculation and maybes.
> 
> The worst sort of 'journalism'. All that needs to be read is the last paragraph.


I'm sorry you thought it was, your feelings are very valid.



havoc said:


> That's exactly what modelling is. Those who admit it can only be a maybe are the honest ones surely.





Jesthar said:


> How on earth does it tell people that lockdown is pointless? We know this isn't going to be 'a few weeks then back to normal', however much we might have hope for that at the start. If anything, it tells us that lockdown is the only way to fight this thing in the absence of a vaccine, or lots of people die due to lack of medical capacity. This is a very long haul scenario, lke it or not.
> 
> On the flip side, of course, I can understand why traditional big business/big money wants us up back to the grindstone as soon as possible. If this carries on long enough, not only are they losing a lot of money, but we might realise we don't actually need most of the tat they like to flog us. I fully expect them to start exploiting the 'cabin fever mentality to urge the end to lockdown before the necessary protection measures, the facilities and the workers in place for testing, tracing, isolating, care, treatment, equipment and protection.
> 
> Incidentally, both the USA and the UK could be ordering companies to start producing the necessary equipment - but they won't. They'll spend a shedload on protecting the economy, the banks, the stock market instead, but livesaving measures are being left to private enterprise and volunteers like my local hackspace. Now, if this were an actual physical war, how long do you think it would be before companies were required to switch to military production? But livesaving medical production? Nope, not worth it...


What I will add is that the Guardian is my preferred source because they addressed the very thing that @MilleD rightly cites as dangerous - click bait and scaremongering at the very start. Here is that link below. How people react is beyond their zone of control (and mine, and yours) but my own opinion is that they've largely got it the reporting right for me - but not for all. Better than the BBC. I do think we've been shambolic and risk taking but one hopes that our governme

And it's okay if we don't all agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/biggest-story-how-journalists-coping-covid-19


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> I'd rather they not report it at all. You haven't explained the benefit of this story yet.
> 
> And respectfully, I disagree that it has been shambolic in the UK. Perhaps at the beginning, but the daily briefings I have seen have been measured and informative. Perhaps not the answers that some people want, but that's because those answers don't exist yet.
> 
> The press seem to just want everyone to run around with their hands in the air panicking. And this isn't the time for their normal spin.
> 
> You won't get me to change my mind, this story is unneeded at the moment and purely there for shock value.


How is it shocking? It's just science - and what pretty much every reputable source is saying. It's pretty much the opposite of panicking - rational, thoughtful and well reasoned.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the shambolic handling of this by the UK gov.

And I'm still curious as to what stories you'd prefer them to run instead? 'It'll all be over by Christmas', perhaps?


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> You won't get me to change my mind, this story is unneeded at the moment and purely there for shock value.


Honestly I don't think there's anything shocking, not even a bit unexpected. A phased return to normal has been generally accepted as the solution for some time. There are various ways this could be implemented and this is one.


----------



## MollySmith

I do think our government has taken risks and I think it's been demonstrated in the behaviours of the minority ( hope) who have pushed the rules. When the likes of small football clubs close down before the Government invoke lock down, when companies made staff work from home before the government invoked lock down... well, it seems that many saw they had to take action before the cabinet did so. That is fact. I personally think the daily briefings have been woolly with gaps BUT that's my opinion.

Life is a long way from returning to normal. I agree with you @O2.0 and add that we have the huge matter of trust in those in charge, each other and the impact to mental health. But what I think the article does do @MilleD is attack our coping skills. We're (the world at large not anyone specific) collectively in grief of some form - for what we had, what we're going through, for people we've lost and fear. We are not at acceptance, the next stage of grief. It's perhaps an article for further down the line so I do appreciate it's perhaps mis-timed and if it's upset you, my apologies. If you'd like me to ask the mods to edit the thread, I don't mind.


----------



## MilleD

Ok, I'm wrong, you're all right.

If you can't possibly see the effect that sort of story might have on people who may already be on the edge then that's fine. 

It's really difficult having an opinion around here sometimes you know....


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Life is a long way from returning to normal. I agree with you @O2.0 and add that we have the huge matter of trust in those in charge, each other and the impact to mental health. But what I think the article does do @MilleD is attack our coping skills. We're (the world at large not anyone specific) collectively in grief of some form - for what we had, what we're going through, for people we've lost and fear. We are not at acceptance, the next stage of grief. It's perhaps an article for further down the line so I do appreciate it's perhaps mis-timed and if it's upset you, my apologies. If you'd like me to ask the mods to edit the thread, I don't mind.


Not at all. Thank you for understanding what I was trying to, apparently very badly, say.


----------



## JANICE199

*I for one am sick of all the media about this virus. People need to get a grip and STOP listening to the death toll. Let's hear more about those that have survived.*


----------



## shadowmare

O2.0 said:


> It seriously blows my mind the stuff people are sharing as "worth thinking about" - people I have had conversations with and assumed they had more than a few brain cells to rub together. And that's not even starting with the utter madness the true conspiracy theory crazies get in to.
> Not trying to get political, but I do blame our leadership. Trump represents the anti-intellectual, anti-science mentality and legitimizes it for many people. This mistrust in anyone who sounds educated and uses big words, Trump is very clearly the antithesis of that.
> I keep waiting for the pendulum to swing back!
> 
> Some of the conspiracy theories are pretty darned entertaining though. I would enjoy them more if it weren't that so many people really do believe them


I went down the rabbit hole of FB yesterday and somehow ended up reading some discussions between americans about socialism being forced upon the people, 'sheep' people giving up their rights... i think the last straw for me was a meme saying "They fought for our rights during a chickenpoxx outbreak".


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Not at all. Thank you for understanding what I was trying to, apparently very badly, say.


I'm sorry for not really thinking how it may impact others (hug) and if you explained enough for me to understand, I high five you from an appropriate social distance


----------



## O2.0

Oh wait, nope, not done ranting about conspiracy theories - The New York Post (tabloid mess of a paper) is reporting that according to Roger Stone (paragon of honesty ) Bill Gates *created* this virus so that he could push mandatory vaccination and microchipping people. 

*Le sigh*


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> If you can't possibly see the effect that sort of story might have on people who may already be on the edge then that's fine.


To be fair to @MollySmith, that is going to be a handful of people overall, and I'm sure their mental health won't be any better to be repeatedly told 'it will all be over soon' only then to have that snatched away. If you think immediate grief is bad, wait till you get to 'hope deferred' repeatedly - that's enough to send many more to depression. I'm thankful I don't have to get my news from the media, having the contacts I do.



JANICE199 said:


> *I for one am sick of all the media about this virus. People need to get a grip and STOP listening to the death toll. Let's hear more about those that have survived.*


Me too. In many other countries, they do report the survival numbers and positive news stories far more. For some reason, the UK press doesn't seem to like to.


----------



## O2.0

shadowmare said:


> I went down the rabbit hole of FB yesterday and somehow ended up reading some discussions between americans about socialism being forced upon the people, 'sheep' people giving up their rights... i think the last straw for me was a meme saying "They fought for our rights during a chickenpoxx outbreak".


I do find some of it entertaining in a train crash sort of way. If you let them go on long enough, the crazy really does come out!

I have a friend - yes, we're actually friends in real life, who one day posted ranting and raving about people not wearing masks and how ignorant do you have to be to not know to wear a mask, then the next day she's sharing some post about how over-hyped this virus stuff is and that it's the government controlling us blah blah. 
In normal times we would meet for lunch, I would call her on the BS, she would say "oh yeah, I guess you're right," and laugh sheepishly at herself and how silly that was.

But we're not meeting for lunch these days, and I'm not going to call her out online or even in pm or text, it doesn't have the same feel and it would hurt her feelings which I don't want to do. Her husband is pretty level-headed and often calls her out too, but he's not on social media at all - probably why he's so level-headed!


----------



## MollySmith

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one am sick of all the media about this virus. People need to get a grip and STOP listening to the death toll. Let's hear more about those that have survived.*


I hope you're okay?

I think it's important that we hear the names of those who died. I have a friend in these statistics and she would want her name out there and so do her family. But it should be balanced so that those who are staying in, know we are making a difference. Without wishing to poke a current sleeping 'tiger' (ahem) the NHS dancing and their clapping for us staying at home is a good way to balance it.

Someone one made the wise observation on here yesterday that it felt strange to talk about death in numbers, my apologies to the poster, I will tag you here when I find the post!

I manage my media and did from the start. My Facebook and Twitter is very carefully curated - I am a firm believer in de-friending! - and I only read the daily update once a day on the Guardian and Simple Politics, that is it. Not even the BBC.


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> To be fair to @MollySmith, that is going to be a handful of people overall, and I'm sure their mental health won't be any better to be repeatedly told 'it will all be over soon' only then to have that snatched away. If you think immediate grief is bad, wait till you get to 'hope deferred' repeatedly - that's enough to send many more to depression. I'm thankful I don't have to get my news from the media, having the contacts I do.
> 
> Me too. In many other countries, they do report the survival numbers and positive news stories far more. For some reason, the UK press doesn't seem to like to.


I have had a lot of grief work - been through it as part of my PTSD and an interest in it, which makes it rather tardy of me to share without being more clear of the triggers. I do see your point too having had my fair share of hope, only to see it be snatched away (miscarriage etc).

I hope we're all good (in the circumstances) and feeling heard fairly - that's so important. I'd offer a group hug but that's inappropriate....!

I'd hate anyone to feel as cross as I was the other night, it's been good to have somewhere to grumble but it should not be a place to trigger.

@MilleD I have edited my post with the link so people are aware, many thanks.


----------



## Jesthar

MollySmith said:


> Someone one made the wise observation on here yesterday that it felt strange to talk about death in numbers, my apologies to the poster, I will tag you here when I find the post!.


Well, we (thankfully!) haven't had to do it in this country for a long time. In fact, my generation are probably the first one to not to have some major morbidity event to handle in their lifetime up till now. It's going to take some time for people to get used to get used to it being something we see in the news happening here instead of, say, Africa.


----------



## MollySmith

Can I share something nice? The local football club manager - Cambridge United’s Mark Bonner - is ringing all the supporters to check they’re okay and if they need a chat. I think that’s really good. Made my husband’s day.


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> she would want her name out there and so do her family.


See, I feel totally differently, I would not want my name or the name of my loved ones publicized. Not that they don't matter, just that to me, it would be a private grief. Those who matter would know anyway.

We all handle grief, uncertainty, fear - all this mess - completely differently. I think we can all agree that there is no right or wrong way to feel.

Some will find The Guardian article you shared upsetting, others will find it informative and helpful (I did). There is a similar article in CNN as well, citing the same study. Only CNN's headline says 2022 not 2025, but yeah...

Now's probably as good a time as any to be aware of our own triggers and learn to protect ourselves as needed. And of course compassion for others who might react and feel differently than we do is always in order


----------



## Jesthar

MollySmith said:


> Can I share something nice? The local football club manager - Cambridge United's Mark Bonner - is ringing all the supporters to check they're okay and if they need a chat. I think that's really good. Made my husband's day.


How lovely! 

Here's one from New Zealand - their Prime Minister, all her Miminsters, and many other leading officials are taking a 20% pay cut for six months:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...y-with-those-hit-by-covid-19?CMP=share_btn_fb

And yes, it's a gesture, but it's a bit of a contrast with our lot awarding themselves an extra 10k for working from home!


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> *See, I feel totally differently, I would not want my name or the name of my loved ones publicized. Not that they don't matter, just that to me, it would be a private grief. Those who matter would know anyway. *
> 
> We all handle grief, uncertainty, fear - all this mess - completely differently. I think we can all agree that there is no right or wrong way to feel.
> 
> Some will find The Guardian article you shared upsetting, others will find it informative and helpful (I did). There is a similar article in CNN as well, citing the same study. Only CNN's headline says 2022 not 2025, but yeah...
> 
> Now's probably as good a time as any to be aware of our own triggers and learn to protect ourselves as needed. And of course compassion for others who might react and feel differently than we do is always in order


Absolutely, I think how we are remembered is unique. My friend entirely for political reasons as a real anti-Tory as are her family but I hope nobody else here or whom I know ever has to consider it.

Grief isn't linear, we will have good and bad days. Talking, writing and creating are helpful ways to express it and being on PF is another way to do that. As you rightly say with compassion. Thanks for your wisdom.


----------



## Jesthar

Trump is at it again! He's suspended all WHO funding from the USA, blaming them for the spread of C-19

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ress-briefing-today-coronavirus-a9465401.html

Looks like he's basically accusing them to be stooges for China in order to detract from his own wild and varying positions on c-19 over the last few weeks...


----------



## O2.0

I found this article helpful:
10 Covid 19 emotions you're not the only one having

https://themighty.com/2020/04/covid...35N-ilI0Ciahk12ExywhlrhagnBiWvp_jfaAxwCTZ91t0


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Trump is at it again! He's suspended all WHO funding from the USA, blaming them for the spread of C-19
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ress-briefing-today-coronavirus-a9465401.html
> 
> Looks like he's basically accusing them to be stooges for China in order to detract from his own wild and varying positions on c-19 over the last few weeks...


He's an ass. Also claimed the president has 'absolute power.' Erm no. We fought a whole war over that and wrote a constitution preventing it from ever happening again.


----------



## cheekyscrip

My musings on Trump and the spread..
Hmm... who waged the tax war on China?
Whose intelligence services had info about health crisis in China in November but not found out what the crisis was about?
I can’t quite buy it? More likely the information was put on the shelf...

Definitely China knew officially in November but likely even before that..

What did WHO knew and when - no idea...

I am sure now many would want Obamacare...
But will most likely elect Trump again.

This is why he plays the blame game as always did.

I actually follow Sweden ... interesting how this will pan out...


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Trump is at it again! He's suspended all WHO funding from the USA, blaming them for the spread of C-19
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ress-briefing-today-coronavirus-a9465401.html
> 
> Looks like he's basically accusing them to be stooges for China in order to detract from his own wild and varying positions on c-19 over the last few weeks...


*News Thump.

Wednesday 15 April 2020 by Arabin Patson*

*Trump cuts funding to WHO for its tragic failure to understand just how stupid Donald Trump is*









*The President of the USA has escalated his feud with the World Health Organisation, accusing the agency of severely underestimating just how incompetent Donald Trump was and refusing to tailor their messages to semi-literate sociopathic Twitterati.*

In his daily press briefings, the controversial politician made the announcement just after his ritual of screaming at journalists and forcing officials to deny their boss was an unstable egomaniac.

He explained, "The WHO is a nasty outfit with low ratings. We told them back in January that I was incapable of understanding even the most basic aspects of viral transmission.

"Did they make a fun cartoon for me to understand what to do? They did nada. We got hundreds of briefings with big words like infection and ventilator. No talk of ratings or how good I am at golf."

The president put the blame for the USA's having the world's highest COVID-19 death toll squarely on the shoulders of the WHO.

"As soon as the virus started to spread in China, I came up with a brilliant plan to make the virus go away by being amazing and holding a big rally. But now, thanks to their talk of having to test and isolate, we have millions of Americans unable to focus on how big my wall is going to be because they're dying or worrying about dying.

"So if the WHO wants to keep making pandemic warnings just for people who have the wit to use a dictionary and remotely care about the lives of others, they can do it on their own dime.

"We're going to spend the money on things that are effective. Guns, prayer sessions and Kanye West."


----------



## kimthecat

https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB12G0wy?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has announced a new 'right to say goodbye' as he admitted he wept at the death of a 13-year-old boy whose family were not allowed to be with him in his final moments.
As a father of a young teenager himself he said he wanted, wherever possible, for people to be able to see their loved ones one last time.
Mr Hancock set out out the plans as part of moves to respond to a rising death toll in care homes.
A new badge for social care workers would also allow the public to express their gratitude to them in the same way they do towards NHS workers, he said.


----------



## havoc

Make of this what you will. I find it a hopeful sign.

*NHS Nightingale:* London's new NHS Nightingale Hospital saw just 19 patients treated for coronavirus over the Easter weekend, according to reports. The 4,000-bed facility, opened at the ExCel conference centre on 3 April, was set up quickly to treat COVID-19 patients and ease the burden on the NHS.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB12G0wy?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare
> 
> Health Secretary Matt Hancock has announced a new 'right to say goodbye' as he admitted he wept at the death of a 13-year-old boy whose family were not allowed to be with him in his final moments.
> *As a father of a young teenager himself he said he wanted, wherever possible, for people to be able to see their loved ones one last time*.
> Mr Hancock set out out the plans as part of moves to respond to a rising death toll in care homes.
> A new badge for social care workers would also allow the public to express their gratitude to them in the same way they do towards NHS workers, he said.


I have a mixed view on this after my friend dying alone. I absolutely agree that this needs to be a (safe) choice - nurses are there but I fear for their mental health. But it should have been a choice from the start or earlier than this, it should not take a death of a child similar in age to his son, to invoke this. And if nurses and doctors are not protected, how will families be? He needs to do this safely otherwise we're back to herd immunity.

Given that a pregnant nurse has died but her baby saved and the NHS are crying out for PPE, I remain suspicious of Hancock's briefing.

I'm ranting, I don't expect anyone to know!


----------



## GingerNinja

The company that I work for is bringing in huge amounts of PPE via private companies and the MOD. we can't be the only ones and I wonder where it is all going?


----------



## Siskin

As I'm going to the hospital daily I had noticed that staff would be carrying similar food containers about quite often a different type each day. It's just occured to me that local food businesses have been supplying staff with meals so they have a good meal inside of them and not a snatched snack.


----------



## MollySmith

GingerNinja said:


> The company that I work for is bringing in huge amounts of PPE via private companies and the MOD. we can't be the only ones and I wonder where it is all going?


I think I remember reading that the government missed out on two or three opportunities to get PPE from Europe, which they would have been entitled despite leaving the EU. A relative is at St Thomas's and they have hinted they are still in need.



Siskin said:


> As I'm going to the hospital daily I had noticed that staff would be carrying similar food containers about quite often a different type each day. It's just occured to me that local food businesses have been supplying staff with meals so they have a good meal inside of them and not a snatched snack.


The fruit and veg box company who I donate boxes to had 93 donations to divide between families in need and NHS.


----------



## Sacrechat

Removed now I know it’s nonsense.


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> What does everyone think of this?


Oh god, please take that down. That's not even a real interview, it's a pretend interview he created to put on his own youtube channel. He's a total quack, antivaxxer, says HIV isn't the cause of aids, and also BTW, claims to have invented email


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> Oh god, please take that down. That's not even a real interview, it's a pretend interview he created to put on his own youtube channel. He's a total quack, antivaxxer, says HIV isn't the cause of aids, and also BTW, claims to have invented email


I will do. A friend posted it on Facebook and I didn't know what to think so thought I would get some input from others, thank you!


----------



## Jesthar

GingerNinja said:


> The company that I work for is bringing in huge amounts of PPE via private companies and the MOD. we can't be the only ones and I wonder where it is all going?


Good question. Much of what is in short supply is single use, though, so stock will have to be replenished daily. Even more so if several are required per person per shift...


----------



## Magyarmum

GingerNinja said:


> The company that I work for is bringing in huge amounts of PPE via private companies and the MOD. we can't be the only ones and I wonder where it is all going?


There doesn't appear to be a shortage of PPE in Hungary. For weeks now Wizzair have been flying to and from China bringing supplies for Hungary and neighbouring countries.

https://bbj.hu/coronavirus/new-protective-equipment-arrives-on-easter-monday_181203

*New protective equipment arrives on Easter Monday*


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> See, I feel totally differently, I would not want my name or the name of my loved ones publicized. Not that they don't matter, just that to me, it would be a private grief. Those who matter would know anyway.
> 
> We all handle grief, uncertainty, fear - all this mess - completely differently. I think we can all agree that there is no right or wrong way to feel.
> 
> Some will find The Guardian article you shared upsetting, others will find it informative and helpful (I did). There is a similar article in CNN as well, citing the same study. Only CNN's headline says 2022 not 2025, but yeah...
> 
> Now's probably as good a time as any to be aware of our own triggers and learn to protect ourselves as needed. And of course compassion for others who might react and feel differently than we do is always in order


In Hungary whilst they don't publish the names of those who've died they do provide details of age,sex and underlying conditions which contributed to their deaths. There have been complaints that it's possible to identify someone from the details given. Personally, I find it quite reassuring to find that most of the deaths were amongst elderly people with, often serious, pre-existing conditions, but maybe that's just me?

https://boon.hu/orszag-vilag/1652-f...Ss0086tIm-PnRjgDikipCgm-jOCWIE_83opA1hMHmulkA

*The number of identified infections increased to 1,652 and 8 patients died*
.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> Personally, I find it quite reassuring to find that most of the deaths were amongst elderly people with, often serious, pre-existing conditions, but maybe that's just me


So do I. I've seen somewhere that we're at around 50% of deaths being in those over 80. Whereas any premature death is sad those lives which are cut short by most sadden me the most.


----------



## Elles

.


O2.0 said:


> Oh god, please take that down. That's not even a real interview, it's a pretend interview he created to put on his own youtube channel. He's a total quack, antivaxxer, says HIV isn't the cause of aids, and also BTW, claims to have invented email


One of my (previously) very sensible, logical friends, a designer and businesswoman, is linking all this stuff. She posts daily links to conspiracies, mainly about Bill Gates, eugenics, tracking, vaccines all that kind of thing. She's convinced he and his powerful peers are behind everything and are evil and that it's been going on for generations. She's been a very good real life friend to me for many years now, but nothing I, or any other of her friends or acquaintances say, or link will persuade her away from the tin foil. She's utterly convinced and thinks we're crazy, or uninformed for not seeing it. Unfortunately she also has people on her Facebook who agree with it all and, I also suspect family members. I wouldn't have guessed that she'd be one to fall into this kind of rabbit hole, not in a million years.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH just went to put something in our wheelie bin out the front and on top of it was a box from the government as we did register ourselves vulnerable...

A large bag of potatoes
a bag of carrots
5 apples
4 mandarins
2 large tin of baked beans
and tins of chopped pork, sweet corn, peaches, tuna chunks and 3 tins of tom. soup.
2 jars of bolognese
a pack of spaghetti
2 packs of rice
A medium sliced loaf
long life milk
tea bags
a sachets of coffee
soap
shampoo
and
2 loo rolls

and we are going to get something like this every week, so we will not need to go out unless we really, really need something.


----------



## MammaMia!

Happy Paws2 said:


> So we will not need to go out unless we really, really need something.


That's great! Didn't realise they were doing things like this. How's everyone doing?

The weather is gorgeous out. Such a shame I can only enjoy it from my garden but then again I always feel rather pathetic if I think stuff like that as my mind then travels to the people that have a lot more to worry about than a bit of sun.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MammaMia! said:


> That's great! Didn't realise they were doing things like this. How's everyone doing?
> 
> The weather is gorgeous out. Such a shame I can only enjoy it from my garden but then again I always feel rather pathetic if I think stuff like that as my mind then travels to the people that have a lot more to worry about than a bit of sun.


We didn't realise we would get anything like that either, it was quite a surprise.

We are sitting in the garden much more than normal, I really feel for people who live in flats.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH just went to put something in our wheelie bin out the front and on top of it was a box from the government as we did register ourselves vulnerable...
> 
> A large bag of potatoes
> a bag of carrots
> 5 apples
> 4 mandarins
> 2 large tin of baked beans
> and tins of chopped pork, sweet corn, peaches, tuna chunks and 3 tins of tom. soup.
> 2 jars of bolognese
> a pack of spaghetti
> 2 packs of rice
> A medium sliced loaf
> long life milk
> tea bags
> a sachets of coffee
> soap
> shampoo
> and
> 2 loo rolls
> 
> and we are going to get something like this every week, so we will not need to go out unless we really, really need something.


That is almost exactly the same as we got on our parcel
Lovely isn't it


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Oh wait, nope, not done ranting about conspiracy theories - The New York Post (tabloid mess of a paper) is reporting that according to Roger Stone (paragon of honesty ) Bill Gates *created* this virus so that he could push mandatory vaccination and microchipping people.
> 
> *Le sigh*


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


>


OH and I were talking about these Bill Gates conspiracy theories and one of the 17 year olds says "what does Bill Gates stand to gain once everyone is vaccinated? You can tell these stories are all fake because the motivation makes no sense." Ain't that the truth!


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary whilst they don't publish the manes of those who've died they do provide details of age,sex and underlying conditions which contributed to their deaths. There have been complaints that it's possible to identify someone from the details given. Personally, I find it quite reassuring to find that most of the deaths were amongst elderly people with, often serious, pre-existing conditions, but maybe that's just me?


They're doing the same in this state, there is a site that our local news reports (and updates daily) that gives cases by county, deaths, and general information about the deceased. 
I'm with you, I find it comforting because I can say "oh, I or my loved ones don't have *that* so we're good." I know it's false confidence in a way, but at this stage, I'll take whatever comfort I can wherever I can!



Elles said:


> One of my (previously) very sensible, logical friends, a designer and businesswoman, is linking all this stuff. She posts daily links to conspiracies, mainly about Bill Gates, eugenics, tracking, vaccines all that kind of thing. She's convinced he and his powerful peers are behind everything and are evil and that it's been going on for generations. She's been a very good real life friend to me for many years now, but nothing I, or any other of her friends or acquaintances say, or link will persuade her away from the tin foil. She's utterly convinced and thinks we're crazy, or uninformed for not seeing it. Unfortunately she also has people on her Facebook who agree with it all and, I also suspect family members. I wouldn't have guessed that she'd be one to fall into this kind of rabbit hole, not in a million years.


There is apparently a psychological explanation for intelligent people falling down those rabbit holes. Has to do with feeling like you're privy to information others aren't, or in this case, able to understand something the masses don't. It's very emotionally attractive (especially if you tend that way with your ego) to feel like you are one of the few smart enough to 'get' these links, others who don't get it are just not smart enough. And a lot of these conspiracy theorists know how to stroke that part of the ego and do a good job of it. Once you are aware of the ego stroking you can actually see it embedded in to those conspiracy theories. The uniqueness of those who believe vs. the stupidity of the masses (sheeple) 

We used to have a poster in dog chat who brought up some trainer who wrote utter nonsense, and utter nonsense that went on and on and on without saying anything. I don't know if you remember. But the MO was to 'explain' something, and when questioned on pretty basic stuff, would say basically we were too stupid to understand the complexity of what this trainer meant. These conspiracy theorists remind me of that a little bit. You point out a very simple, logical flaw, and they roll their eyes and act like you're an idiot who just doesn't get it.



Happy Paws2 said:


> We are sitting in the garden much more than normal, I really feel for people who live in flats.


I'm finding myself thinking about people stuck inside every time I go out. Then I play a game in my mind about if I could handle it if I couldn't go outside at all. I'll be watering plants thinking, I could do this inside, but would it feel the same? Yeah, I really feel for people who can't even go out


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> I'm finding myself thinking about people stuck inside every time I go out. Then I play a game in my mind about if I could handle it if I couldn't go outside at all. I'll be watering plants thinking, I could do this inside, but would it feel the same? Yeah, I really feel for people who can't even go out


I've been thinking about this too. We've been getting a couple of inches of snow over night the last few nights. It's so beautiful! I go for my walk in the morning, because there is never anyone there at that time. it's so fresh and bright and cold, the snow all around, and the smell of the air is just incredible. I sometimes struggle to enjoy it, only knowing that other people can't.


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> I've been thinking about this too. We've been getting a couple of inches of snow over night the last few nights. It's so beautiful! I go for my walk in the morning, because there is never anyone there at that time. it's so fresh and bright and cold, the snow all around, and the smell of the air is just incredible. I sometimes struggle to enjoy it, only knowing that other people can't.


My husband complained this morning that the lack of pollution in the air means he doesn't have as many crows to pick out of his nose.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> You point out a very simple, logical flaw, and they roll their eyes and act like you're an idiot who just doesn't get it.


There used to be a member on here like that. The only answer they ever gave to a request for clarification of their outrageous comment was 'I'd have thought it's obvious'. Used to make me laugh.


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> My husband complained this morning that the lack of pollution in the air means he doesn't have as many crows to pick out of his nose.


#firstworldproblems

:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

An interesting article although I'm not sure how accurate it is..

https://rmx.news/article/article/hu...uhilzGz9zWHvmJvUXcKcRWeJoNxc9fIGRPfPVItmnyqFw

*Hungary is 4th safest country in Europe amid coronavirus pandemic: report*


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> OH and I were talking about these Bill Gates conspiracy theories and one of the 17 year olds says "what does Bill Gates stand to gain once everyone is vaccinated? You can tell these stories are all fake because the motivation makes no sense." Ain't that the truth!


It doesn't work.

They gain world domination and a form of God complex, knowing that they've controlled and manipulated the masses. They also gain through making and selling cures and vaccines for diseases they gave everyone deliberately. They fake their own infections and miraculous recoveries, or give the chosen few the cure. (Boris) They control and manipulate world economies and populations, rather like playing a game of chess. Or you could believe one guy they keep linking and he believes they're half alien lizard people. They don't kill him for revealing the truth, because that would just prove he was right. :Bag I had to give up.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> It doesn't work.
> 
> They gain world domination and a form of God complex, knowing that they've controlled and manipulated the masses. They also gain through making and selling cures and vaccines for diseases they gave everyone deliberately. They fake their own infections and miraculous recoveries, or give the chosen few the cure. (Boris) They control and manipulate world economies and populations, rather like playing a game of chess. Or you could believe one guy they keep linking and he believes they're half alien lizard people. They don't kill him for revealing the truth, because that would just prove he was right. :Bag I had to give up.


Oh my! It is a little brain scrambling isn't it?

One of the narratives here is that the liberal media is spreading fear, getting the country shut down so that Trump won't be re-elected. I'm trying to figure out how the rest of the world being affected and also shutting down ties in to that narrative. 
The scary think is that some are using this particular 'theory' to flaunt stay at home and distancing orders


----------



## ForestWomble

Forget it.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Oh my! It is a little brain scrambling isn't it?
> 
> One of the narratives here is that the liberal media is spreading fear, getting the country shut down so that Trump won't be re-elected. I'm trying to figure out how the rest of the world being affected and also shutting down ties in to that narrative.
> The scary think is that some are using this particular 'theory' to flaunt stay at home and distancing orders


I'm trying to2 work out where Naomi Klein and The Shock Doctrine", the Koch brothers, Murdoch, aliens and societies like the Freemasons fit into the scheme of things?


----------



## purringcats

Whilst the rest of the UK is facing a further 3 weeks of continued lockdown things are starting to get to me as I have a health condition that is deemed high risk and have to self isolate for 12 weeks. I got the letter yesterday from my GP explaining that I have to self isolate for 12 weeks. It is starting to become mind numbing as I have already done about 2 or 3 weeks of this because I vulentarily started self isolating. I know this needs to be done to get on top of the virus and I have no problems regarding this but there are only so many repeats on TV you can watch. All the jobs I had listed to be done are now done. I am keeping in touch with my dad every day on the phone but the conversation seems to have dried up and now the conversation is "How are you today?" "I am doing OK" "OK speak tomorrow." Plus I am not sleeping properily because I have slept so much. It is becoming a challenge (on top of all the other health challenges I face daily) to keep myself occupied being in a 12 week medical lock down. Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?

Sorry for ranting (perhaps out of boredom).


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/20...rR4KQdSl3mNi0YwllStYUpaz_CzTL9fbkix3T1ovJ95b0
> 
> Just thought I'd share this letter written by a nurse working in Bournemouth Hospital. The truth is awful.


From a socialist website?

I'm not sure I would believe this as a decent source I'm afraid.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> Whilst the rest of the UK is facing a further 3 weeks of continued lockdown things are starting to get to me as I have a health condition that is deemed high risk and have to self isolate for 12 weeks. I got the letter yesterday from my GP explaining that I have to self isolate for 12 weeks. It is starting to become mind numbing as I have already done about 2 or 3 weeks of this because I vulentarily started self isolating. I know this needs to be done to get on top of the virus and I have no problems regarding this but there are only so many repeats on TV you can watch. All the jobs I had listed to be done are now done. I am keeping in touch with my dad every day on the phone but the conversation seems to have dried up and now the conversation is "How are you today?" "I am doing OK" "OK speak tomorrow." Plus I am not sleeping properily because I have slept so much. It is becoming a challenge (on top of all the other health challenges I face daily) to keep myself occupied being in a 12 week medical lock down. Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?
> 
> Sorry for ranting (perhaps out of boredom).


Do you have any hobbies or things that can keep you more occupied? Maybe learn a language or a new skill?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> From a socialist website?
> 
> I'm not sure I would believe this as a decent source I'm afraid.


You beat me to it!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-socialist-web-site/

*







*
*







LEFT *


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> You beat me to it!
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-socialist-web-site/
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LEFT *


You and your fact checker! I keep forgetting that even exists. I always check Snopes to see if it's a BS article, but forget about the FC business.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> Whilst the rest of the UK is facing a further 3 weeks of continued lockdown things are starting to get to me as I have a health condition that is deemed high risk and have to self isolate for 12 weeks. I got the letter yesterday from my GP explaining that I have to self isolate for 12 weeks. It is starting to become mind numbing as I have already done about 2 or 3 weeks of this because I vulentarily started self isolating. I know this needs to be done to get on top of the virus and I have no problems regarding this but there are only so many repeats on TV you can watch. All the jobs I had listed to be done are now done. I am keeping in touch with my dad every day on the phone but the conversation seems to have dried up and now the conversation is "How are you today?" "I am doing OK" "OK speak tomorrow." Plus I am not sleeping properily because I have slept so much. It is becoming a challenge (on top of all the other health challenges I face daily) to keep myself occupied being in a 12 week medical lock down. Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?
> 
> Sorry for ranting (perhaps out of boredom).


oh that's tough isn't it? I can sympathise a lot though I seem to have either escaped the letter or not been seen as serious enough.

Twitter isn't to everyone's cup of tea but I've been taking part in a music thing - if you search Tim's Twitter Listening Party, it's with Tim Burgess from the Charlatans whom I'm old enough too remember anyway! There's also lots of book groups popping up - most publishers are doing one including Penguin.

And I expect conversation is hard - I chat to my parents a lot but there's only so much to talk about.

Take it day by day - rather than look to the long future and it may help .


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> I'm trying to2 work out where Naomi Klein and The Shock Doctrine", the Koch brothers, Murdoch, aliens and societies like the Freemasons fit into the scheme of things?


Clearly you're not smart enough to make the links


----------



## Happy Paws2

purringcats said:


> Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?
> 
> Sorry for ranting (perhaps out of boredom).


Rant away, It's getting to all of so we all need a rant sometimes so rant as much as you like, thank goodness for PF at least it's a safety value for us.

I'm taking the 12 weeks for the lock down three weeks ago and taking it from there, and see what happens.


----------



## Happy Paws2

So we have another 3 weeks of Lock Down and so glad the government have done this, we daren't relax the Lock Down too soon or things would go badly wrong.


----------



## ForestWomble

MilleD said:


> From a socialist website?
> 
> I'm not sure I would believe this as a decent source I'm afraid.





Magyarmum said:


> You beat me to it!
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-socialist-web-site/
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LEFT *


Deleated my post.


----------



## lorilu

purringcats said:


> Whilst the rest of the UK is facing a further 3 weeks of continued lockdown things are starting to get to me as I have a health condition that is deemed high risk and have to self isolate for 12 weeks. I got the letter yesterday from my GP explaining that I have to self isolate for 12 weeks. It is starting to become mind numbing as I have already done about 2 or 3 weeks of this because I vulentarily started self isolating. I know this needs to be done to get on top of the virus and I have no problems regarding this but there are only so many repeats on TV you can watch. All the jobs I had listed to be done are now done. I am keeping in touch with my dad every day on the phone but the conversation seems to have dried up and now the conversation is "How are you today?" "I am doing OK" "OK speak tomorrow." Plus I am not sleeping properily because I have slept so much. It is becoming a challenge (on top of all the other health challenges I face daily) to keep myself occupied being in a 12 week medical lock down. Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?
> 
> Sorry for ranting (perhaps out of boredom).


{{HUG}}


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Clearly you're not smart enough to make the links


----------



## GingerNinja

purringcats said:


> Like others I do not know when the 12 weeks was meant to start for us that are meant to do 12 weeks because we are classed as high risk or vulnerable?





Happy Paws2 said:


> Rant away, It's getting to all of so we all need a rant sometimes so rant as much as you like, thank goodness for PF at least it's a safety value for us.
> 
> I'm taking the 12 weeks for the lock down three weeks ago and taking it from there, and see what happens.


My Aunt also got a letter in the last week for the second wave of notifications. In hers it stated it was from 26 March.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://xpatloop.com/channels/2020/...weather-affects-coronavirus-transmission.html

*Weather Affects Virus Transmission, Claims Debrecen University*


----------



## Lurcherlad

We’re taking the 12 weeks from initial lockdown 3 weeks ago, but tbh it’s arbitrary for us really as OH’s chemo means we’re on lockdown until he’s well past that finish line (estimated last session is October).

Honestly, I’m not looking too far into the future, just dealing with the present. That way it doesn’t feel as long.


----------



## O2.0




----------



## purringcats

GingerNinja said:


> My Aunt also got a letter in the last week for the second wave of notifications. In hers it stated it was from 26 March.


Mine had no date in it.
I had a text from the Government last week I think it was and the letter yesterday. No start date mentioned in the letter it just says to stay in for 12 weeks explaining that I am high risk health wise and vulnerable, the letter then goes on about various things.

I do have supplies being delivered weekly by different supermarkets each week with the last one being Friday 24th April because there are no delivery slots available yet and I am hoping I can get a delivery slot for the following week sometime next week. The supermarkets seem to be only releasing delivery slots every 5 to 7 days before they are due.

Don't get me wrong I totally understand this lockdown has to be done and agree with the Governments decision to extend it.


----------



## rona

Clap for Carers.........hundreds of pigeons took off and flew over us. Oddly, apart from one Starling, I didn't see any other birds


----------



## lullabydream

I meant to share this yesterday.. This has an interview on the end too. 
I thought it rather amusing, the statistics mind blowing about panic buying.. 
Please don't watch if easily offended


----------



## DogLover1981

There has been people protesting against the stay-at-home orders here in the states saying it goes against their freedom and everything. They're nuts. Protests are a great way for the virus to spread and the stay-at-home orders are meant to reduce the number of deaths and infections. O.O


----------



## lullabydream

DogLover1981 said:


> There has been people protesting against the stay-at-home orders here in the states saying it goes against their freedom and everything. They're nuts. Protests are a great way for the virus to spread and the stay-at-home orders are meant to reduce the number of deaths and infections. O.O


I saw the headline, and didn't read unfortunately just rolled my eyes!


----------



## willa

Happy Paws2 said:


> So we have another 3 weeks of Lock Down and so glad the government have done this, we daren't relax the Lock Down too soon or things would go badly wrong.


I think it'll go on beyond these next 3 weeks. We're in this for the long haul I feel


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> I think it'll go on beyond these next 3 weeks. We're in this for the long haul I feel


I think you are right.


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> I think it'll go on beyond these next 3 weeks. We're in this for the long haul I feel


I'll have to irrespective of any reductions to lockdown. The plan is to have my op in early June to remove the lump so need to avoid getting the virus both before and after such a major op. The only place we would go to at the moment is our static van in suffolk, but have been told that the governing body for static parks is saying they have no plans at the moment to allow parks to reopen until August.


----------



## havoc

I don’t suppose anyone expected it to go back to normal after just three weeks. Until and unless there’s an effective and (importantly) available vaccine I shouldn’t think life will be completely back to normal. Listening to last night’s briefing I do think they’re starting to give more weight to the economy. Currently they believe a second wave would be more damaging than leaving restrictions in place. There are models for future harm, the rising cost of increased unemployment, deaths from poverty, suicide etc. Once they are predicted to be worse than the harm of the virus it will be a different focus.


----------



## Magyarmum

DogLover1981 said:


> There has been people protesting against the stay-at-home orders here in the states saying it goes against their freedom and everything. They're nuts. Protests are a great way for the virus to spread and the stay-at-home orders are meant to reduce the number of deaths and infections. O.O


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I meant to share this yesterday.. This has an interview on the end too.
> I thought it rather amusing, the statistics mind blowing about panic buying..
> Please don't watch if easily offended


Good on him.


----------



## MilleD

Well, there you go. Was always pretty sure they aren't telling the truth

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52319956

China's death toll had been steady at around 3,300 for weeks - until today, when it jumped to more 4,600. 

That's because the city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began, raised its death toll by 50% - that's 1,290 cases - attributing it to updated reporting, and more deaths from outside hospitals being counted.

There has been doubt over China's figures for some time, with US President Donald Trump suggesting they "seem to be a little bit on the light side".

Releasing the corrected toll, Wuhan city officials insisted there had been no cover-up of the real figures.


----------



## MilleD

Not sure if this is helpful or just more confusing!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...ng-buying-alcohol/ar-BB12KQW5?ocid=spartanntp


----------



## MilleD

Watched an excellent video this morning.

It said to wash your hands properly "wash them as if you have just been chopping up jalapenos and now want to put your contact lenses in"

Amen brother


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Watched an excellent video this morning.
> 
> It said to wash your hands properly "wash them as if you have just been chopping up jalapenos and now want to put your contact lenses in"
> 
> Amen brother


I'd have put my lenses in beforehand.


----------



## Cully

So Donald Trump is having to bow down to his medical/scientific advisors and not end the lockdown yet. He wont be happy. Could this be why he's passing the buck for each state governor to make that decision? So when it all goes t*** up he has someone else to blame !


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Not sure if this is helpful or just more confusing!
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...ng-buying-alcohol/ar-BB12KQW5?ocid=spartanntp


Some of it is a bit silly. 'Some' non key workers are allowed to travel to work and then has to clarify that those who can are those who cannot work from home or if their employer requires it. That would be everyone still working then who isn't working from home, as was always the case.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> So Donald Trump is having to bow down to his medical/scientific advisors and not end the lockdown yet. He wont be happy. Could this be why he's passing the buck for each state governor to make that decision? So when it all goes t*** up he has someone else to blame !


Don't think he ever had the power to end the lockdown nationally. The climb down is the admission that it can only be decided at state level.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Not sure if this is helpful or just more confusing!
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...ng-buying-alcohol/ar-BB12KQW5?ocid=spartanntp


When my OH read these earlier, he said how many are going to abuse those going to a friends house for a 'cooling off period' I get tensions can be at their worse I honestly do, but surely people can nip to BFF for ever and say oh I rowed with OH..

Saying that woke up to.. Screaming row in my street. Have no idea who it is, but sentences like 'When's he going to pick you up' could be heard clearly


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well yesterday we had a food parcel from the government and this morning we had a e-mail from Sanisbury's to say they have put us on their vulnerable list for on-line shopping. So now we don't have to go out at all.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> When my OH read these earlier, he said how many are going to abuse those going to a friends house for a 'cooling off period' I get tensions can be at their worse I honestly do, but surely people can nip to BFF for ever and say oh I rowed with OH..
> 
> Saying that woke up to.. Screaming row in my street. Have no idea who it is, but sentences like 'When's he going to pick you up' could be heard clearly


You are supposed to go for 'several days' though rather than popping in for a chat. Seems a bit bonkers, but it is probably there to give sufferers of domestic abuse and out.

Nice! I suppose it's tricky having an affair when you can't leave your house!


----------



## lullabydream

I know it said several days, but I think some people would do that for change of scenery, or just think oh I will do it for a few hours. 

In true domestic violence situations I don't think they would be able to do that. I know my friend couldn't.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I know it said several days, but I think some people would do that for change of scenery, or just think oh I will do it for a few hours.
> 
> In true domestic violence situations I don't think they would be able to do that. I know my friend couldn't.


No. How would you go back safely?


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> No. How would you go back safely?


Have no idea.. It took careful planning with the help of women's aid for my friend to leave her domestic abuse situation.

Do people have cooling off periods that take days to calm down? Is that normal? I mean by all means walkout, stop rowing in front of children maybe a day, but days.. I don't know.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> So Donald Trump is having to bow down to his medical/scientific advisors and not end the lockdown yet. He wont be happy. Could this be why he's passing the buck for each state governor to make that decision? So when it all goes t*** up he has someone else to blame !


He doesn't have the power to order an end to the lock down. Under the Constitution that power rests with the State Governors.

Andrew Cuomo Governor of New York stated quite clearly that he would ignore any order to reopen the economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-reopen-plan.html

*'Worst Is Over,' Cuomo Says as States Snub Trump on Restarting Economy*
.


----------



## Summercat

Cully said:


> So Donald Trump is having to bow down to his medical/scientific advisors and not end the lockdown yet. He wont be happy. Could this be why he's passing the buck for each state governor to make that decision? So when it all goes t*** up he has someone else to blame !


I am not a fan of Trump but to be fair, when he was making noises about doing things on a national vs state level, he was hit down for acting like a king and overreaching his power. 
States rights are a big thing in the US but a mish mash of policies over the outbreak is not likely very helpful.


----------



## Magyarmum

Summercat said:


> I am not a fan of Trump but to be fair, when he was making noises about doing things on a national vs state level, he was hit down for acting like a king and overreaching his power.
> States rights are a big thing in the US but a mish mash of policies over the outbreak is not likely very helpful.


What he hasn't/didn't take into account is that not all States are at the same stage. Some have already reached a peak and the rate of infection is beginning to slow down. Other States are nowhere near being ready. It's not a one size fits all decision.

The same applies to the EU. Germany and several other EU countries are at the stage where they can begin to relax the lock down. I live in Hungary where because infections haven't peaked yet it would be a disastrous decision to relax the stringent rules we have in place.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well yesterday we had a food parcel from the government and this morning we had a e-mail from Sanisbury's to say they have put us on their vulnerable list for on-line shopping. So now we don't have to go out at all.


This is good news


----------



## Summercat

Magyarmum said:


> What he hasn't/didn't take into account is that not all States are at the same stage. Some have already reached a peak and the rate of infection is beginning to slow down. Other States are nowhere near being ready. It's not a one size fits all decision.
> 
> The same applies to the EU. Germany and several other EU countries are at the stage where they can begin to relax the lock down. I live in Hungary where because infections haven't peaked yet it would be a disastrous decision to relax the stringent rules we have in place.


I was replying to a specific post of Cully. But to answer you, states in the US do not have borders like EU countries, many of which have enacted border controls. It is quite easy to drive from one state to another and a certain degree of uniformity could be useful with allowances allowed when appropriate.
I don't think there is a good record of whether states are at their peak or not, due to poor collecting of information, lack of tests etc.


----------



## MammaMia!

Went out on a run this morning. Saw plenty of children on bikes that were quite clearly not siblings and definitely not two metres apart...

I think lots of children are obviously getting fed-up already. It annoys me that they think they can break this lock-down and go out just because if they do get it they potentially will only feel a cold or not have any symptoms at all. What about the people they take it home to? Their parents who may be NHS staff?


----------



## Magyarmum

Summercat said:


> I was replying to a specific post of Cully. But to answer you, states in the US do not have borders like EU countries, many of which have enacted border controls. It is quite easy to drive from one state to another and a certain degree of uniformity could be useful with allowances allowed when appropriate.
> I don't think there is a good record of whether states are at their peak or not, due to poor collecting of information, lack of tests etc.


The EU isn't supposed to have borders either. As with some countries within the EU some states in the US have imposed restriction of movement from one state to another.

As for whether a state has reached its peak with a few exceptions no country or state has performed enough tests or collected enough information. It's largely a matter of individual judgement.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/31/us/states-travel-restrictions-list/index.html

*Here are the states restricting travel from within the US*

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

*To understand the global pandemic, we need global testing - the Our World in Data COVID-19 Testing dataset*


----------



## O2.0

Summercat said:


> I am not a fan of Trump but to be fair, when he was making noises about doing things on a national vs state level, he was hit down for acting like a king and overreaching his power.
> States rights are a big thing in the US but a mish mash of policies over the outbreak is not likely very helpful.


He was making noises about having 'absolute authority' which very rightly got a lot of backs up.

Opening states back up is not a states rights issue but a virus transmission issue. In my state we're not expected to hit our peak until the end of April while New York seems to be hitting its peak now. It would be silly to have the same rules for NY as for my state. Some states are very high population density others are very low, again, there would be a difference in directives. Other states are known vacation destinations, and they'll have to take that in to account. South Dakota isn't going to have an influx of vacationers if they open back up, Florida is and will have to plan accordingly.

It's also worth noting that multiple states are coordinating together to work out a re-opening. NY, NJ, CT, PA, Delaware, and MA are all coordinating their states reopening. Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky are also working together. On the West Coast I think California, WA and Oregon are also working together. So no, it's not a "States Rights" thing at all, just governors trying to do the right thing, which I for one appreciate.


----------



## Lurcherlad

purringcats said:


> Mine had no date in it.
> I had a text from the Government last week I think it was and the letter yesterday





MammaMia! said:


> Went out on a run this morning. Saw plenty of children on bikes that were quite clearly not siblings and definitely not two metres apart...
> 
> I think lots of children are obviously getting fed-up already. It annoys me that they think they can break this lock-down and go out just because if they do get it they potentially will only feel a cold or not have any symptoms at all. What about the people they take it home to? Their parents who may be NHS staff?


I'd expect parents to keep their kids at home.

Sadly, not all parents are responsible ime.


----------



## havoc

Lurcherlad said:


> I'd expect parents to keep their kids at home.


Not all parents are at home. There are plenty still working. 
Frankly the reality is that there's a limit to how long and to what extent people can be expected to stay behind four walls. I walked my dog first thing this morning and I've just been out for a three mile run. Didn't see another soul either time and I didn't break any law.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MammaMia!

Magyarmum said:


>


 Not heard the original song in a while. Might go listen now.


----------



## Cully

My friend had to have her cat pts today. She's distraught. I'm so very sad I couldn't even give her a much needed hug. Fcuk this virus!!


----------



## MammaMia!

@Cully That is awful. Sending virtual hugs to you and your friend.


----------



## lullabydream

That's so sad @Cully I am sure she understands and a natter on the phone might not seem the same. However, am sure it will help a great deal.

Hugs to you
xxxx


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> My friend had to have her cat pts today. She's distraught. I'm so very sad I couldn't even give her a much needed hug. Fcuk this virus!!


When I went to pick up Charlie's second lot of probiotic from my vet (you call them from outside and they pop it on the doorstep and take our payment over the phone), there was a family outside holding a dog body harness looking very agitated, and the vet nurse who answered was wearing heater gear asked if I could phone back later to pay. When I did, I asked if there had been a happy ending and was told sadly not  Felt so sorry for the family and the vets...


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> That's so sad @Cully I am sure she understands and a natter on the phone might not seem the same. However, am sure it will help a great deal.
> 
> Hugs to you
> xxxx


We're close neighbours too. Just along the corridor. I get her stuff when I do my online shopping and she picks up the odd loaf or milk for me. I always looked after Smokie when they went away.
Life's a bitch sometimes.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> When I went to pick up Charlie's second lot of probiotic from my vet (you call them from outside and they pop it on the doorstep and take our payment over the phone), there was a family outside holding a dog body harness looking very agitated, and the vet nurse who answered was wearing heater gear asked if I could phone back later to pay. When I did, I asked if there had been a happy ending and was told sadly not  Felt so sorry for the family and the vets...


It's heartbreaking. It's made worse by there being nothing but Coronavirus in the news and all over tv/media. It makes people feel more alone and somehow unimportant if they're going through heartache unrelated to the virus.

I also feel sorry for NHS staff who are just getting on with their normal jobs rather than part of the heroic 'front line'. Wonder if they feel a bit forgotten.


----------



## Jesthar

havoc said:


> I also feel sorry for NHS staff who are just getting on with their normal jobs rather than part of the heroic 'front line'. Wonder if they feel a bit forgotten.


Two doctors in my family, and everyone in the NHS is the heroic front line - have been for a while even before this, due to the consgant underfunding.

Which brings me to another bone of contention, whilst it's amazing that so many people are making things and raising money for the NHS, it's truly disgusting that the NHS should be in a position where we have to do that kind of thing at such a scale... And most of it is coming from the less well off - I've yet to see, for example, our politicials taking a pay cut so the NHS can have a bit extra funding, banking institutions donating their bonuses, or Amazon (who, lets face it, are raking it is right now!) agreeing to stop avoiding paying their fair share of taxes in honour of the NHS...


----------



## Cully

@Jesthar ,is the lack of PPE still all down to funding now? I thought it was availability that was the problem and that's why it's being sourced from the efforts of the community.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> @Jesthar ,is the lack of PPE still all down to funding now? I thought it was availability that was the problem and that's why it's being sourced from the efforts of the community.


Not the entirity of what I meant.  Plus the whole situation is far more complex than can be summed up in a few lines.

I was talking about the underfunding of the NHS (and NHS staff - remember BoJo and his mates cheering when they 'won' a vote to not give NHS staff a pay rise?) in general meaning there is much less capacity for handling an extra, sustained loading like this. Or even day to day loading (as many staff do several extra unpaid hour each week), come to that. Friends of mine have worked 12+ hours a day for nearly a month without a full day off because there are not enough staff. They are exhausted, but there will be no respite because there are no replacements, and as more staff have to self isolate or become unwell.

PPE is one small part of the greater issue, though it should be noted the government decliined to get involved in the EU bulk buy PPE initiative, and I have seen reports from some UK PPE manufacturers that orders are coming in from all over the place - but not the from UK government for the NHS. However, there was a report a few years back that warned the NHS was woefully underprepared for a pandemic situation and measures needed to be taken. The government chose not to do anything about it.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> Two doctors in my family, and everyone in the NHS is the heroic front line -


I didn't mean they weren't but that the media is concentrating only on those working directly with Covid-19 patients.


----------



## Elles

Maybe we should change to Germany’s health service model and have more privatised.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

I found out about this document yesterday which outlines the 'reasonable excuses' for leaving your house during the continued lockdown. We can drive reasonable distances to take our dogs for walks to exercise us and them. This common sense will be of a great benefit to many people, including me.

Driving to take a walk is lawful during England lockdown, police told


----------



## DogLover1981

Summercat said:


> I am not a fan of Trump but to be fair, when he was making noises about doing things on a national vs state level, he was hit down for acting like a king and overreaching his power.
> States rights are a big thing in the US but a mish mash of policies over the outbreak is not likely very helpful.


I live in the states myself. People talk about state's rights but it's largely an illusion, IMO. Why do I say that? Mainly because states cannot shut down or patrol their borders or regulate many things. What one state does can impact other states in many different ways and as such, state's rights is again largely an illusion. People are driving from other states to my state in large numbers to get away from it all and possibly exacerbating the problems with the virus where I live. This virus definitely needs a coherent national response.

Though, there are some state governments that are trying to work with other state governments to coordinate strategies for dealing with the virus.


----------



## havoc

samuelsmiles3 said:


> I found out about this document yesterday which outlines the 'reasonable excuses' for leaving your house during the continued lockdown. We can drive reasonable distances to take our dogs for walks to exercise us and them. This common sense will be of a great benefit to many people, including me.
> 
> Driving to take a walk is lawful during England lockdown, police told


I've done so throughout. The only change I made after seeing how the world was hell bent on making up their own versions of the law was to print off the Coronavirus Act 2020 and keep it in my car with me.


----------



## Jesthar

DogLover1981 said:


> I live in the states myself. People talk about state's rights but it's largely an illusion, IMO. Why do I say that? Mainly because states cannot shut down or patrol their borders or regulate many things. What one states does can impact other states in many different ways and as such, state's rights is again largely an illusion. People are driving from other states to my state in large numbers to get away from it all and possibly exacerbating the problems with the virus where I live.


Didn't New York threaten to sue at least one other area who tried to order New Yorkers fleeing invection zones to quarantine for 14 days on arrival?



DogLover1981 said:


> This virus definitely needs a coherent national response.


Good luck with that, Number 45 rarely manages coherence in word, let alone deed!


----------



## havoc

This is common sense and good policing.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coro...e-as-everyone-is-socially-distancing-11973003


----------



## Summercat

@Magyarmum
I am not sure why you are trying to pick an argument, as I said my message was to another user and very specifically directed to a comment she made.

Anyway, as I understand those restrictions in a few states do not block travel but ask that travelers self quarantine for a period of days upon arrival. Which is not really enforceable. And most states, especially if one lives near a border with another state it is common to cross over frequently....So not sure your point?

Crossing from Poland to Germany (where non commercial/essential) travel was blocked, is very different than driving down a highway and seeing a sign saying Maryland welcomes you. There are no border check points. Maybe the highway patrol is out now looking for out of state plates and asking in a few states for out of state people to self isolate but again, not the same thing.

Anyway, have a nice day, I am not interested in commenting to your messages further. I don't see a point.


----------



## purringcats

Germany has far more testing facilities than the UK and this is the reason why they are probably able to relax the lockdown rules a little. They have been able to quickly test more people than the UK. The UK has had to build labs from scratch to increase the amount of testing because the UK simply didn't have enough facilities to do mass testing.

There will always be the risk of a second wave of this virus by relaxing the lockdown rules in any country because not enough is known about this virus and that is why a vaccine is urgently needed, but I do wonder who would be vaccinated first eg the eldery, vulnerable, sick and disabled or the working people who would need to get back to work to get the economy moving again?

I do think it is going to take much longer than the 6 weeks lockdown (that's the 3 weeks we have had already and the 3 week extension) or 12 weeks for the high risk and vulnerable people in the UK before the lockdown rules can be attempted to be relaxed in the UK. I do think social distancing is here for the long haul not the short term and pubs and clubs and other social gathering places will remain closed for sometime yet. I believe that when the lockdown does start to be lifted it will be a slow process to ensure that the virus does not come back or is controlled. Much, much more needs to be known about this virus.

Life is not suddenly going to be the way it was before the outbreak and probably won't be again for sometime.

--------------------------
_*Disclaimer*
*Moderators and Others*
This is my opinion and I am entitled to it and it is not intended to upset anyone or scaremonger anyone in anyway. Other people have had their opinions made on this thread as it is a forum after all which is full of peoples opinions. If you don't like what I said I am sorry but it is realistic with what is currently going on. _


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> I do wonder who would be vaccinated first eg the eldery, vulnerable, sick and disabled or the working people who would need to get back to work to get the economy moving again?


I'm not sure. I'm not sure how you test a vaccine is safe and effective in such a short time when it normally takes so long to develop one. Right now with such focus on care homes it would make a lot of sense to use them for quick field testing except for the issue of consent. We're not there yet though so I guess it will depend to some extent on the situation at the time.


----------



## Magyarmum

Summercat said:


> @Magyarmum
> I am not sure why you are trying to pick an argument, as I said my message was to another user and very specifically directed to a comment she made.
> 
> Anyway, as I understand those restrictions in a few states do not block travel but ask that travelers self quarantine for a period of days upon arrival. Which is not really enforceable. And most states, especially if one lives near a border with another state it is common to cross over frequently....So not sure your point?
> 
> Crossing from Poland to Germany (where non commercial/essential) travel was blocked, is very different than driving down a highway and seeing a sign saying Maryland welcomes you. There are no border check points. Maybe the highway patrol is out now looking for out of state plates and asking in a few states for out of state people to self isolate but again, not the same thing.
> 
> Anyway, have a nice day, I am not interested in commenting to your messages further. I don't see a point.


I wasn't trying to pick an argument with you. That's a figment of your imagination.

I'm not sure how anyone but you was supposed to know you were answering a post from Cully when you made no reference to it.

If that's how you feel however so be it.


----------



## havoc

purringcats said:


> Life is not suddenly going to be the way it was before the outbreak and probably won't be again for sometime.


Couldn't be even if the virus suddenly disappeared tomorrow. This has all got to be paid for somehow and we'll all be 'in it together' for years. Of course some of us will be in it more than others.


----------



## purringcats

Local council phoned me today to inform me that my information had been passed on to them along with other peoples names on the vulnerable and high risk health condition lists. They wanted to check I was ok and to offer me food parcels and said if I need additional care they will arrange through my GP for people to come around and see me (I think they mean district nurse). First food parcel will be delivered on Monday, saves having to try and find slots for home delivery through the supermarket online.


----------



## lorilu

Yesterday I had a funny thought about all the snow we're getting. Snow isn't uncommon in April here of course, we usually get one or two falls in the early days of the month. April 5-7th seems to be the most common day.. But this past week it has snowed every single night leaving 2-3 inches every morning. And last night a storm moved in and it's stlil snowing, we've got about 5 inches and supposed to get a couple more as the day goes on.

I've been enjoying this weather thoroughly, working from home. By 10:30, when I take my lunch hour and go up for my hike at the Audubon Sanctuary, my car and the roads are clear, but the snow is still fresh and crisp up in the woods and my hikes have been glorious.

This morning another thought occurred to me. If I had been going to work all this time, having to get up at 5 a.m., having to go out and brush off my car every single morning, I wouldn't be enjoying this snow so much. Having to brush off my car every single morning in April gets old very fast. But with the stay at home, and working from home, it isn't an issue.

There's my silver lining!


----------



## SusieRainbow

I have been making face mask adapters, they are used to secure a mask over the face withut hooking over the ears so more comfortable.
If anyone needs or wants some pm me, I'm happy to post them out, we have plenty of spare 2nd class stamps, and the pure cotton yarn is from my stash.


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> I have been making face mask adapters, they are used to secure a mask over the face withut hooking over the ears so more comfortable.
> If anyone needs or wants some pm me, I'm happy to post them out, we have plenty of spare 2nd class stamps, and the pure cotton yarn is from my stash.
> View attachment 437063


How clever! Would love one, but I'd be tooexpensive to ship. I can probably fashion something like it though, for my home made one, so thanks for the idea!. I made a face covering out of an old t-shirt and pony tail holders. It isn't very comfortable but does the job. I sent one to my sister as well.


----------



## MilleD

What's going on with the US today? Is it correct that trump is encouraging people to liberate their States and folks are coming out in droves??


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> Germany has far more testing facilities than the UK and this is the reason why they are probably able to relax the lockdown rules a little. They have been able to quickly test more people than the UK. The UK has had to build labs from scratch to increase the amount of testing because the UK simply didn't have enough facilities to do mass testing.
> 
> There will always be the risk of a second wave of this virus by relaxing the lockdown rules in any country because not enough is known about this virus and that is why a vaccine is urgently needed, but I do wonder who would be vaccinated first eg the eldery, vulnerable, sick and disabled or the working people who would need to get back to work to get the economy moving again?
> 
> I do think it is going to take much longer than the 6 weeks lockdown (that's the 3 weeks we have had already and the 3 week extension) or 12 weeks for the high risk and vulnerable people in the UK before the lockdown rules can be attempted to be relaxed in the UK. I do think social distancing is here for the long haul not the short term and pubs and clubs and other social gathering places will remain closed for sometime yet. I believe that when the lockdown does start to be lifted it will be a slow process to ensure that the virus does not come back or is controlled. Much, much more needs to be known about this virus.
> 
> Life is not suddenly going to be the way it was before the outbreak and probably won't be again for sometime.
> 
> --------------------------
> _*Disclaimer*
> *Moderators and Others*
> This is my opinion and I am entitled to it and it is not intended to upset anyone or scaremonger anyone in anyway. Other people have had their opinions made on this thread as it is a forum after all which is full of peoples opinions. If you don't like what I said I am sorry but it is realistic with what is currently going on. _


What an odd disclaimer....


----------



## Magyarmum

SusieRainbow said:


> I have been making face mask adapters, they are used to secure a mask over the face withut hooking over the ears so more comfortable.
> If anyone needs or wants some pm me, I'm happy to post them out, we have plenty of spare 2nd class stamps, and the pure cotton yarn is from my stash.
> View attachment 437063


What a good idea. All the face masks I've got are much too big but if I tie a knot in the elastic they don't fit comfortably over my ears



lorilu said:


> How clever! Would love one, but I'd be tooexpensive to ship. I can probably fashion something like it though, for my home made one, so thanks for the idea!. I made a face covering out of an old t-shirt and pony tail holders. It isn't very comfortable but does the job. I sent one to my sister as well.


Like you I live too far away to post, but I did find this on Youtube to make my own. I'm hopeless at crocheting It might be useful for you as well?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Magyarmum said:


> What a good idea. All the face masks I've got are much too big but if I tie a knot in the elastic they don't fit comfortably over my ears
> 
> Like you I live too far away to post, but I did find this on Youtube to make my own. I'm hopeless at crocheting It might be useful for you as well?


Yes, I've seen these too,but my craft is crochet, I love it,but not so good at sewing ! A friend of mine is making full head bands with a botton on either side for the same purpose, they are really pretty.


----------



## purringcats

MilleD said:


> What an odd disclaimer....


Last time I made a comment on here it was edited and removed so I thought putting a disclaimer would perhaps stop this. It felt as if I was not allowed to make comments without people choosing to take them the wrong way.


----------



## lorilu

Magyarmum said:


> What a good idea. All the face masks I've got are much too big but if I tie a knot in the elastic they don't fit comfortably over my ears
> 
> Like you I live too far away to post, but I did find this on Youtube to make my own. I'm hopeless at crocheting It might be useful for you as well?


Well I don't crochet, I'll just use bits of thin fleece with a button sewn on either end to hook the pony tail holders over. I have tons of fleece scraps left over from the cat beds and cat toys I make, and they are a bit stretchy if you cut them the right way.

The face coverings I made (picture in previous post) require no sewing at all by the way. Just a rectangle of fabric folded in threes, put the pony tail holders over the "arms", and tuck the ends in.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> What's going on with the US today? Is it correct that trump is encouraging people to liberate their States and folks are coming out in droves??


Read all about it!

Noticeably I believe it was only states with Democrat Governors he was encouraging to rebel against the lock down

Far more exciting than Dallas!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ebellion-liberate-tweets-200417223606672.html

*Trump accused of 'fomenting rebellion' after 'LIBERATE' tweets*


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> What's going on with the US today? Is it correct that trump is encouraging people to liberate their States and folks are coming out in droves??


Nothing that I know of! 
I haven't checked the news, got up, did some house chores, walked the dog, saw my neighbor driving back from checking on livestock, made waffles for breakfast, did the dishes, did a load of laundry, and just now sat down. Hit FB and PF before news sites, didn't notice anything unusual


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> Nothing that I know of!
> I haven't checked the news, got up, did some house chores, walked the dog, saw my neighbor driving back from checking on livestock, made waffles for breakfast, did the dishes, did a load of laundry, and just now sat down. Hit FB and PF before news sites, didn't notice anything unusual


Let us know if you do.

I wonder how the flat earthers explain the fact you get up later than us?


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> Let us know if you do.
> 
> I wonder how the flat earthers explain the fact you get up later than us?


Will do!  
Not sure how the different time zones fit in to the flat earth model, but strangely there is a lot about the flat earth model that doesn't make a lot of sense to me :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> Will do!
> Not sure how the different time zones fit in to the flat earth model, but strangely there is a lot about the flat earth model that doesn't make a lot of sense to me :Hilarious


look, it simple . if the earth wasn't flat we'd all fall off. :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> look, it simple . if the earth wasn't flat we'd all fall off. :Hilarious


----------



## LinznMilly

purringcats said:


> Last time I made a comment on here it was edited and removed so I thought putting a disclaimer would perhaps stop this. It felt as if I was not allowed to make comments without people choosing to take them the wrong way.


I don't know the specific circumstances surrounding the posts you've made which were edited or removed, but it wouldn't have been simply because you voiced your opinion. However, if that opinion was voiced in a way that could be deemed offensive, or otherwise violated the rules, then yes, it would have been moderated as necessary.

It's in the Terms of Service that you agreed to on registering, that any post you make may be modified in accordance with the rules of the forum:



> We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time.


----------



## purringcats

I didn't violate the terms which I am fully aware of so thanks for jumping to assumptions.

I felt as if I was not allowed to voice my opinion and got ganged up on but that is the way these kinds of places go isn't it.

This was one of the responses to my post that was edited and deleted yet something similar to what I posted appeared by someone else and did not get removed and no facts got posted.










Yet other people are allowed to voice what they want and post things with no proof. Sorry but forums are full of peoples opinions facts or not.


----------



## lorilu

There is a difference between posting opinion and posting speculation or false information. Fine line sometimes, but that was the rub of that particular contretemps I think.


----------



## rona

purringcats said:


> I didn't violate the terms which I am fully aware of so thanks for jumping to assumptions.
> 
> I felt as if I was not allowed to voice my opinion and got ganged up on but that is the way these kinds of places go isn't it.
> 
> This was one of the responses to my post that was edited and deleted yet something similar to what I posted appeared by someone else and did not get removed and no facts got posted.
> 
> Yet other people are allowed to voice what they want and post things with no proof. Sorry but forums are full of peoples opinions facts or not.


Honestly, with 888 dead in UK and many many more elsewhere. Does what happens on a forum really matter?


----------



## LinznMilly

purringcats said:


> I didn't violate the terms which I am fully aware of so thanks for jumping to assumptions.
> 
> I felt as if I was not allowed to voice my opinion and got ganged up on but that is the way these kinds of places go isn't it.
> 
> This was one of the responses to my post that was edited and deleted yet something similar to what I posted appeared by someone else and did not get removed and no facts got posted.
> 
> View attachment 437092
> 
> 
> Yet other people are allowed to voice what they want and post things with no proof. Sorry but forums are full of peoples opinions facts or not.


The terms say moderators have the right to remove or edit posts at their discretion. The moderator/s used their discretion and came to the conclusion that your posts needed to be deleted or edited. If you don't agree with these terms, you are well within your rights to find another forum.


----------



## rona

Just bought You'll never walk alone by Captain Tom Moore, Michael Ball and the care choir.

Are you going to help make him No.1 in the charts for his 100th Birthday and raise even more money?


----------



## O2.0

purringcats said:


> Last time I made a comment on here it was edited and removed so I thought putting a disclaimer would perhaps stop this. It felt as if I was not allowed to make comments without people choosing to take them the wrong way.


Oh don't stress about having comments edited and/or removed. Happens to me all the time  Hey, at least you know someone is reading what you write eh? 

Just a personal pet peeve of mine, but stating "it's my opinion" doesn't really mean anything really.
It's okay to have an unvoiced opinion. Like after reading all the flat earth comments, one might consider not voicing an opinion about finding the flat earth arguments rather compelling 

And not all opinions are equal either. I know it's not politically correct to say that, but it's true, for example, regarding something like vaccines, the opinion of a pediatrician who has treated children for measles might be of more value than the opinion of an actor or actress who doesn't understand basic biology. That sort of thing 

I'll just leave this here:


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Us 12 weekers aren't even allowed in the garden ,if we do have one
> We are allowed an open window, for ventilation
> Cue lots of people with vitD deficiency when we are allowed out
> Either that, or
> 1.5 million morlocks will appear


I got my letter yesterday. It says

" try spending time with the windows open to let fresh air in , arranging space to sit and see a nice view ( if possible ) and get some natural sunlight . _Get out into the garden or sit on your doorstep if you can , keeping a distance of at least 2 metres from others _"
So it looks like you can go into the garden now.

Other advice , use separate bathroom from rest of the household :Hilarious It all right for rich folk , the rest of us are told to clean the bathroom after every use.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Just bought You'll never walk alone by Captain Tom Moore, Michael Ball and the care choir.
> 
> Are you going to help make him No.1 in the charts for his 100th Birthday and raise even more money?


Thats a good idea but Ive decided not to contribute.  Im doing more personal donations , local RSPCA and my nephews friend had died so they're raising 
money for his wife and young children,

This is going to affect a load of charities , Cancer Research UK has just announced they are having to cut their research budget by 44 million .


----------



## DogLover1981

There was a protest against the lockdown in my state. I think I'll hide in a cave now. O.O

https://www.wmur.com/article/protes...-call-for-end-to-stay-at-home-orders/32197345


----------



## lorilu

DogLover1981 said:


> There was a protest against the lockdown in my state. I think I'll hide in a cave now. O.O
> 
> https://www.wmur.com/article/protes...-call-for-end-to-stay-at-home-orders/32197345


"Live Free or Die" is the state motto after all.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Thats a good idea but Ive decided not to contribute.  Im doing more personal donations , local RSPCA and my nephews friend had died so they're raising
> money for his wife and young children,
> 
> This is going to affect a load of charities , Cancer Research UK has just announced they are having to cut their research budget by 44 million .


It's 99p, I can afford that and still support Happy Paws Puppy Rescue.
Well, when I get money from government in June, if they haven't run out by then!


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> I didn't violate the terms which I am fully aware of so thanks for jumping to assumptions.
> 
> I felt as if I was not allowed to voice my opinion and got ganged up on but that is the way these kinds of places go isn't it.
> 
> This was one of the responses to my post that was edited and deleted yet something similar to what I posted appeared by someone else and did not get removed and no facts got posted.
> 
> View attachment 437092
> 
> 
> Yet other people are allowed to voice what they want and post things with no proof. Sorry but forums are full of peoples opinions facts or not.


And I still stand by the point I was making.


----------



## Summercat

DogLover1981 said:


> I live in the states myself. People talk about state's rights but it's largely an illusion, IMO. Why do I say that? Mainly because states cannot shut down or patrol their borders or regulate many things. What one state does can impact other states in many different ways and as such, state's rights is again largely an illusion. People are driving from other states to my state in large numbers to get away from it all and possibly exacerbating the problems with the virus where I live. This virus definitely needs a coherent national response.
> 
> Though, there are some state governments that are trying to work with other state governments to coordinate strategies for dealing with the virus.


You said the same thing I was saying.....so I agree with you, as I said the same thing myself in other posts.
Travel between states, states not having a border they can control the same way countries do, etc 
It is one country.
In terms of trying to contain the virus, a bit more organized and national approach on some level would likely be helpful. But as it is, different states are doing different things.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> It's 99p, I can afford that and still support Happy Paws Puppy Rescue.
> Well, when I get money from government in June, if they haven't run out by then!


Yes of course , its everyones choice, i was just thinking that while its only a pound , all those pounds add up .

You have to wait til June?  Thats a long time.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

kimthecat said:


> Thats a good idea but Ive decided not to contribute.  Im doing more personal donations , local RSPCA and my nephews friend had died so they're raising
> money for his wife and young children,
> 
> *This is going to affect a load of charities ,* Cancer Research UK has just announced they are having to cut their research budget by 44 million .


especially the smaller ones - I volunteer at a local Hospice charity shop but due to the lockdown all of our shops are closed for the duration. Hospices rely on their shops for a large proportion of their income - we have 11 shops; each has a weekly sales target of around £2500, thereby generating an income £27,500 per week. Without this regular source of income they will find it very hard to continue to provide services to the local community.


----------



## kimthecat

DogLover1981 said:


> There was a protest against the lockdown in my state. I think I'll hide in a cave now. O.O
> 
> https://www.wmur.com/article/protes...-call-for-end-to-stay-at-home-orders/32197345


Its not available here.  Could you copy and paste the gist of it?


----------



## kimthecat

Bertie'sMum said:


> especially the smaller ones - I volunteer at a local Hospice charity shop but due to the lockdown all of our shops are closed for the duration. Hospices rely on their shops for a large proportion of their income - we have 11 shops; each has a weekly sales target of around £2500, thereby generating an income £27,500 per week. Without this regular source of income they will find it very hard to continue to provide services to the local community.


Same here , we have a lot of charity shops in our high street, all closed. Our local RSPCA accept donations of food etc , we can leave it outside their homing place so we dont need to come into contact with anyone.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Same here , we have a lot of charity shops in our high street, all closed.


Most of the charity shops here closed before the lockdown, not sure why. maybe because they are staffed by volunteers who tend to be retired, hence older, people.


----------



## cheekyscrip

I have read that in UK people are fined for buying plants or paint for the walls? 

I think it is time to allow it as people need to do something while at home and it is a good step forward towards getting back on track...

Shops are open so as long as shoppers keep distance le them buy what they need.

Normality has to start somewhere.

If we ruin our economy there will be no health care as such soon enough.

Gardening is vital.


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> fined for buying plants


 The supermarkets are selling bedding plants, pot plants and cut flowers. Or they were two days ago! Hardware shops also open, some of which I imagine sell some paint.


----------



## Sacrechat

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1127148407638080


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> Most of the charity shops here closed before the lockdown, not sure why. maybe because they are staffed by volunteers who tend to be retired, hence older, people.


That's a shame. They thrive here. Some are paid jobs though so I assume the charity will still pay the staff.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> The supermarkets are selling bedding plants, pot plants and cut flowers. Or they were two days ago! Hardware shops also open, some of which I imagine sell some paint.


Our local hardware shop is open. but no plants. Ian had to go/ there to get a new lock for our brick shed door a few weeks ago . The door wouldnt open so he took it off by the hinges and replaced the lock. Bikes and lawn mowers get nicked here if you dont lock up.


----------



## GingerNinja

Sacremist said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1127148407638080


That made me want to cry ! I do understand that emotions will be high due to financial difficulties but the sheer ignorance is astounding.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> That's a shame. They thrive here. Some are paid jobs though so I assume the charity will still pay the staff.


I don't mean closed permanently, but closed until whenever. The managers are paid, I believe, albeit not too generously. The RSPCA shop closed permanently, not sure why. Amazed how expensive some of the stuff donated to the Princess Alice shop is. There was a canteen of cutlery in the window at £850 for 72 pieces! Another time there was a Silver Cross pram in the window, reminiscent of ones you see in old news reels of the royal family, and that was over £200. It's no wonder they were burgled one night.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Calvine said:


> The supermarkets are selling bedding plants, pot plants and cut flowers. Or they were two days ago! Hardware shops also open, some of which I imagine sell some paint.


I have read that police can fine you and did for buying those? Recently.


----------



## MilleD

Interesting interview on the Andrew Marr show this morning with a vaccinologist from Oxford university. 

They are nearly ready for clinical trials next week.

I was surprised they wait to see if the subjects catch the virus. I sort of thought they would give it to them. Perhaps that isn't safe though 

Ironically, social distancing is going to make the trials difficult as it cuts down the rate of contagion.

Half of the subjects will be given the coronavirus vaccine, which isn't actually built around SAR-COV-2 but a different virus, and half will be given one that's apparently for meningitis.


----------



## Calvine

GingerNinja said:


> That made me want to cry ! I do understand that emotions will be high due to financial difficulties but the sheer ignorance is astounding.


Strange priorities, like ''I need a haircut''! That's the last thing on my mind.


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> I have read that police can fine you and did for buying those


Possibly: the police have been accused of being heavy-handed in some cases.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

cheekyscrip said:


> I have read that police can fine you and did for buying those? Recently.


If the supermarket is selling plants then you can buy them as part of your "essentials " shopping 
Some local small independent garden centres around here are selling either online or via the telephone and will deliver for a small charge - all necessary precautions re social distancing are observed when delivery is made - I've been compiling a list of what I would like and intend ringing at the end of next week.



Calvine said:


> I don't mean closed permanently, but closed until whenever. The managers are paid, I believe, albeit not too generously. The RSPCA shop closed permanently, not sure why. Amazed how expensive some of the stuff donated to the Princess Alice shop is. There was a canteen of cutlery in the window at £850 for 72 pieces! Another time there was a Silver Cross pram in the window, reminiscent of ones you see in old news reels of the royal family, and that was over £200. It's no wonder they were burgled one night.


Yes the paid staff (Managers and Admin staff have been furloughed so are still being paid. Most charity shops do have someone who can price the "good" stuff realistically; the canteen of cutlery might have been silver and have you seen how much secondhand Silver Cross prams can sell for ? Silver Cross still make that style of pram and new they sell for £1500 so £200+ is a bargain ! Our Manager is well informed on vintage toys and I'm sometimes surprised how much people are willing to pay for something that I wouldn't give house room to !


----------



## MilleD

cheekyscrip said:


> I have read that police can fine you and did for buying those? Recently.


I don't think there is any law they could find you under.


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Calvine said:


> Strange priorities, like ''I need a haircut''! That's the last thing on my mind.


Have to admit that it is on my mind :Shy I keep my hair quite short and once it gets beyond a certain length it becomes unmanageable. Call me shallow if you will, but but If I feel I look a mess then it depresses me and at the moment there is enough to be depressed about without adding the lack of a haircut into the mix !


----------



## Calvine

Bertie'sMum said:


> might have been silver


I hope and imagine it was at that price. But I did notice that she only put one setting in the window, obviously thought if all 72 pieces were there then they'd have another burglary. I haven't seen what second hand Silver Cross prams sell for, not my area really.


----------



## Calvine

Bertie'sMum said:


> Have to admit that it is on my mind :Shy I keep my hair quite short and once it gets beyond a certain length it becomes unmanageable. Call me shallow if you will, but but If I feel I look a mess then it depresses me and at the moment there is enough to be depressed about without adding the lack of a haircut into the mix !


The one thing annoying me is not being able to get new glasses. I wish I had the prescription so I could get them online, but I don't have.


----------



## Sacrechat

GingerNinja said:


> That made me want to cry ! I do understand that emotions will be high due to financial difficulties but the sheer ignorance is astounding.


I honestly have no words to describe how it makes me feel. I just find it so utterly unbelievable and astonished at the ignorance and stupidity of some human beings. So many people turning this health crisis into a political platform makes my blood run cold.


----------



## Cully

@Calvine 


Calvine said:


> The one thing annoying me is not being able to get new glasses. I wish I had the prescription so I could get them online, but I don't have.


I had to have a copy of my prescription once and the opticians sent it to me by recorded delivery. They couldn't email it because of breaching data protection.
Might be worth a phone call, if they are open.


----------



## Calvine




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MammaMia!

I know that the argument has been brushed under the rug now but I just wanted to say that I think our moderators are really marvelous and not many could do a better job.

I think if anyone disagrees strongly with that they should try voluntarily giving up their own time and we will see whether they could hack it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


>


That's brilliant :Hilarious


----------



## Lurcherlad

Bertie'sMum said:


> Have to admit that it is on my mind :Shy I keep my hair quite short and once it gets beyond a certain length it becomes unmanageable. Call me shallow if you will, but but If I feel I look a mess then it depresses me and at the moment there is enough to be depressed about without adding the lack of a haircut into the mix !


We've bought scissors, comb and clippers online so I can do OH and DS's hair.

Not sure I'll let them near mine though


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> We've bought scissors, comb and clippers online so I can do OH and DS's hair.
> 
> Not sure I'll let them near mine though


I've bought scissors, comb and slicker brush so I can cut the Schnauzer boys hair. 

It's probably as well my kompoota's gone on the blink and won't upload photos of what the pair of them will look like when I've finished:Arghh


----------



## MollySmith

MammaMia! said:


> I know that the argument has been brushed under the rug now but I just wanted to say that I think our moderators are really marvelous and not many could do a better job.
> 
> I think if anyone disagrees strongly with that they should try voluntarily giving up their own time and we will see whether they could hack it.


I agree. Special high fives for @SusieRainbow


----------



## MilleD

Sacremist said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1127148407638080


The free country argument is always amusing. No-one lives in a free country.


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> I agree. Special high fives for @SusieRainbow


Thank you, that makes it all worth while.As you can appreciate it can be a thankless task, the last few days have been particularly taxing but we keep coming back and don't have the luxury of using the ignore button .


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Yes of course , its everyones choice, i was just thinking that while its only a pound , all those pounds add up .
> 
> You have to wait til June?  Thats a long time.


Self employed. OH gets nothing because he's not been self employed a year


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> This is going to affect a load of charities


Depending on how long this goes on for it may actually benefit smaller charities, what with government grants and staff furloughed.
I know one of the local charities I support is currently better off.

Though it will become a problem when it continues into the summer and fundraising events need to be cancelled.


----------



## DogLover1981

MilleD said:


> The free country argument is always amusing. No-one lives in a free country.


These protesters are risking the lives of friends, loved ones and others in their community. I do think some of them don't realize how serious this virus is and some are in denial.

I'm a big believer in democracy and to some extent, freedom as well. However, in many respects freedom is an illusion because everything you do in life has an impact on others. My day to day life can be interrupted and impacted by others in so many ways. Freedom can be a vague concept and we all have to follow rules in life. I could say I should have the freedom to go about my life without protesters spreading the virus and risking my health. Also, if I were truly "free" I'd be living a nice mansion somewhere and not have to worry about a thing for the rest of my life. lol


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


>


That's the least of their worries, they appear to have lost Antarctica!


----------



## Happy Paws2

How is everyone this morning, I hope you are all feeling OK and no pains you shouldn't have.


----------



## kimthecat

@Happy Paws2 So far so good. Just the usual pains  Just waiting for a Tescos delivery.

I hope you are well too.


----------



## Beth78

Happy Paws2 said:


> How is everyone this morning, I hope you are all feeling OK and no pains you shouldn't have.


All well here, just been shifting the rest of the sand into the chicken run, so that's one job finished.
Gradually ticking things of my to do list.

Next up is sorting and sending off unwanted CDs


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> How is everyone this morning, I hope you are all feeling OK and no pains you shouldn't have.


Morning HP, lots of extra pain this morning, neck and back of shoulder blade.

More so than normal. Think sitting at my breakfast bar working isn't doing me any good.

Hope you are well this beautiful morning.


----------



## MilleD

My OH who is staying here during lockdown has been furloughed from today.

Not entirely sure how I'm going to cope with that :Nailbiting:Muted:Wideyed


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> My OH who is staying here during lockdown has been furloughed from today.
> 
> Not entirely sure how I'm going to cope with that :Nailbiting:Muted:Wideyed


Make or break!


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> How is everyone this morning, I hope you are all feeling OK and no pains you shouldn't have.


We are good. How about you two?



MilleD said:


> Morning HP, lots of extra pain this morning, neck and back of shoulder blade.
> 
> More so than normal. Think sitting at my breakfast bar working isn't doing me any good.
> .


Sorry to hear this, OH has had to buy an office chair because of his aches and pains. He says it's made a huge difference for the good 


MilleD said:


> My OH who is staying here during lockdown has been furloughed from today.
> 
> Not entirely sure how I'm going to cope with that :Nailbiting:Muted:Wideyed


Mine drives me mad at the best of times :Wideyed


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Make or break!


Indeed 

I wonder what the rules would say about giving him a holiday at his house?


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> My OH who is staying here during lockdown has been furloughed from today.
> 
> Not entirely sure how I'm going to cope with that :Nailbiting:Muted:Wideyed


Train him to give you a neck, back and shoulders massage


----------



## Happy Paws2

Glad everyone is OK, we are fine just driving each other crazy

I did hurt my back Saturday trying to helping OH move a very large plant pot full of compost from one side of the patio to the other so his carrots seeds get move sun, why didn't he think about it before he planted it up, MEN.

It's so tempting to do things we shouldn't just to find something to do. so please be careful and don't over do it.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> Indeed
> 
> I wonder what the rules would say about giving him a holiday at his house?


Covered by essential travel; after all, MPs and cabinet ministers have done it


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> Train him to give you a neck, back and shoulders massage


 It might give him ideas ! Ahem !


----------



## Magyarmum

I'm feeling tired today because I didn't sleep well last night.

For the first time in two weeks had to go to town to do some essential shopping (No online grocery deliveries in my neck of the woods) Not a soul around and apart from the staff there was only me and another shopper in Spar during the 9 to 12 Granny shopping hours.

Amazing isn't it how a simple everyday task like shopping can become an adventure with all the fears and dangers of the unknown :Arghh

No cucumbers, cauliflower or bananas but you won't believe what I found on one of the shelves in Spar?

Hellmann's Vegan Mayonnaise! Almost made the risk of venturing out seem worthwhile:Joyful

I felt quite exhausted by the time I got home


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I'm feeling tired today because I didn't sleep well last night.
> 
> For the first time in two weeks had to go to town to do some essential shopping (No online grocery deliveries in my neck of the woods) Not a soul around and apart from the staff there was only me and another shopper in Spar during the 9 to 12 Granny shopping hours.
> 
> Amazing isn't it how a simple everyday task like shopping can become an adventure with all the fears and dangers of the unknown :Arghh
> 
> No cucumbers, cauliflower or bananas but you won't believe what I found on one of the shelves in Spar?
> 
> Hellmann's Vegan Mayonnaise! Almost made the risk of venturing out seem worthwhile:Joyful
> 
> I felt quite exhausted by the time I got home


It is such a drama going to the shops these days isn't it. I've managed to get click and collect slots which I'm grateful for. I then spend ages wiping everything down in the garden before allowing it in.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> It is such a drama going to the shops these days isn't it. I've managed to get click and collect slots which I'm grateful for. I then spend ages wiping everything down in the garden before allowing it in.


I know, washing everything down takes much longer than the actual shopping.

I've only been out twice since March 16th and the first time on the way back home, realised although I'd thought of how to sanitise most things I'd forgotten about getting the Schnauzer boys out of the car safely without contaminating their harnesses. As a result they were the last to come out of the car which didn't please them one little bit. This time though I organised my "cleaning" so they were the first out!


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I know, washing everything down takes much longer than the actual shopping.
> 
> I've only been out twice since March 16th and the first time on the way back home, realised although I'd thought of how to sanitise most things I'd forgotten about getting the Schnauzer boys out of the car safely without contaminating their harnesses. As a result they were the last to come out of the car which didn't please them one little bit. This time though I organised my "cleaning" so they were the first out!


Dare say they would be happy if they had to be sanitised! I've managed once a fortnight which for me is a miracle living alone I normally pop in most days for fresh stuff, completely changed my habits now.


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> How is everyone this morning, I hope you are all feeling OK and no pains you shouldn't have.


I hope you're okay too.

I've been a bit emotionally rung out, podcasting yesterday and talking about the pandemic and grief. This morning I felt a bit better, did yoga and just having lunch after kettlebells but cried because David Attenborough is teaching geography - no idea why it made me cry, it just did. I think I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed at the hopelessness of it all, well those 'in charge' and just can't see an end to it.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> It is such a drama going to the shops these days isn't it. I've managed to get click and collect slots which I'm grateful for. I then spend ages wiping everything down in the garden before allowing it in.


I can't face it today. I've given up on click and collect so I'm visiting shop once a week and we get a veg box. Then I spend the week worried I might have it. It's like a military operation - the local shops are great but it's the odd idiot or my own stupidity that worries me.


----------



## rona

Boxer123 said:


> It is such a drama going to the shops these days isn't it. I've managed to get click and collect slots which I'm grateful for. I then spend ages wiping everything down in the garden before allowing it in.


Just be pleased it's dry out there


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Just be pleased it's dry out there


It poured with rain on the way back from shopping yesterday and I had to leave everything except the Schnauzer boys in the car until the rain eased off sufficiently for me to unpack the boot without getting soaked.


----------



## Jesthar

MollySmith said:


> I think I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed at the hopelessness of it all, well those 'in charge' and just can't see an end to it.


Well, technically speaking it is here to stay, but provided the world is sensible and work on a vaccine progresses well, then over the next few years not only will organic and vaccinated herd immunity begin to develop, and it will just become another thing for the anti-vaccine brigade to froth at the mouth about.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> I can't face it today. I've given up on click and collect so I'm visiting shop once a week and we get a veg box. Then I spend the week worried I might have it. It's like a military operation - the local shops are great but it's the odd idiot or my own stupidity that worries me.


I've found with the click and collect Sainsbury's slots around 9pm Tesco I managed to nab around 3pm. I find the supermarket makes me so anxious.


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> Well, technically speaking it is here to stay, but provided the world is sensible and work on a vaccine progresses well, then over the next few years not only will organic and vaccinated herd immunity begin to develop, and it will just become another thing for the anti-vaccine brigade to froth at the mouth about.


Yes, very true! I think the politics frustrates me but I'm trying not to rant as that's not the focus of the thread (though I feel in the UK we can hardly untangle one from the other). It was interesting to talk to a guest on my podcast yesterday about how she was handling lockdown in Spain as someone without children or partner. Apart from being desperate to hug somebody, she said she felt there were results and their strict lockdown was saving lives. I wish I felt the same here. It's undoubtedly helping but..... anyway, I shan't stray when everyone else is also sitting on their hands


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> I've found with the click and collect Sainsbury's slots around 9pm Tesco I managed to nab around 3pm. I find the supermarket makes me so anxious.


Half my problem is that I never used supermarkets so I don't have accounts with any except Waitrose. The locals have been great but did struggle to set up delivery schemes but now they've caught up, I'm getting some bits but prefer to leave slots open for those genuinely in need. I am not in for 12 weeks thank goodness so I can go out if I'm sensible. It's just managing that anxiety.


----------



## havoc

My brain is definitely thinking up some wierd questions during this lockdown. For example, can Banksy claim he can't work from home?


----------



## Elles

He's just increased the value of his bathroom by about £10m, so probably not. :Artist 

https://www.banksy.co.uk/


----------



## havoc

Elles said:


> He's just increased the value of his bathroom by about £10m, so probably not. :Artist
> 
> https://www.banksy.co.uk/


And when he's filled up his own walls?


----------



## kimthecat

One way to keep safe.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Yes, very true! I think the politics frustrates me but I'm trying not to rant as that's not the focus of the thread (though I feel in the UK we can hardly untangle one from the other). It was interesting to talk to a guest on my podcast yesterday about how she was handling lockdown in Spain as someone without children or partner. Apart from being desperate to hug somebody, she said she felt there were results and their strict lockdown was saving lives. I wish I felt the same here. It's undoubtedly helping but..... anyway, I shan't stray when everyone else is also sitting on their hands


We're kept very well informed here in Hungary on a daily basis, with the numbers of new infections, deaths etc and where in the country they are. The Government has bought in enough PPE and equipment like ventilators to cover the worst possible outcome. Hungary in common with Germany and Austria has the largest number of hospital beds in the EU, at 7.02 hospital beds per 1000 people compared to the UK's 2.54 but are still increasing the number for when the peak has been reached which we're told to expect around May 3rd.

Lock down is strict here with mayors of town and villages able to make their own rules. Some towns in the region are closed over the weekend with anyone who doesn't live there refused entry. Another one near to me has made it compulsory to wear face masks when out shopping. My own nearest market town is virtually deserted and the 9 to 12 OAP only, shopping hours seem to be working well. In our village we now have a social worker/home help who visits everyone over 65, three times a week and if needed will do some housework, cook and shop for you, which although I only need help with the shopping is much appreciated.


----------



## O2.0

"There are a lot of media bubbles out there, and getting a glimpse outside the one you are in can be eye opening."
(And depressing!)


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> "There are a lot of media bubbles out there, and getting a glimpse outside the one you are in can be eye opening."
> (And depressing!)


Video won't play for me!


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> Video won't play for me!


 ''Not available'' for me either.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Video won't play for me!


Probably outside of your own media bubble......


----------



## O2.0

Oh damn! It's John Oliver's "Last week tonight" 
It's a comedy show, but super smart. He has been doing a coronavirus series, this is Coronavirus V I hate you can't see it. 
I wonder if you searched "Last week tonight coronavirus V"?



MilleD said:


> Probably outside of your own media bubble......


I giggled. And then didn't.... Too true sadly. Americans look like total idiots (not necessarily disputing that) if all you can see are clips of Fox News but can't see our late night comedy shows making fun of Fox News clips....


----------



## Magyarmum

Hope you can see it now.


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Hope you can see it now.


Nope. Still unavailable


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Nope. Still unavailable


Try looking on Youtube that's where I copied it from. We have the show every Friday evening on HBO here in Hungary.


----------



## lullabydream

I did the search, I went to Last week tonight I think we can only see upto number 2? Just done half an hour of weeding directly in the sun so mind is frazzled! So could have got number wrong! 

I watched his first show bit not from the studio with the numpty basket ball player but had to go out! So would be intrigued to watch more!


----------



## MissKittyKat

O2.0 said:


> "There are a lot of media bubbles out there, and getting a glimpse outside the one you are in can be eye opening."
> (And depressing!)


John Oliver is great we watch weekly on sky but it does make your realise how different things are in America, even in normal times.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Oh damn! It's John Oliver's "Last week tonight"
> It's a comedy show, but super smart. He has been doing a coronavirus series, this is Coronavirus V I hate you can't see it.
> I wonder if you searched "Last week tonight coronavirus V"?
> 
> I giggled. And then didn't.... Too true sadly. Americans look like total idiots (not necessarily disputing that) if all you can see are clips of Fox News but can't see our late night comedy shows making fun of Fox News clips....


I know this is politically biased and not representative of the US as a whole but idiots like these are dangerous.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=559173374737047


----------



## Magyarmum

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/john-oliver-blasts-misinformation-feedback-163028499.html

*John Oliver blasts the misinformation 'feedback loop between Fox and Trump'*


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Try looking on Youtube that's where I copied it from. We have the show every Friday evening on HBO here in Hungary.


Oh yes, have checked utube. Several of his shows, but not this particular one


----------



## Sacrechat

Is this It @O2.0?


----------



## Magyarmum

Sacremist said:


> Is this It @O2.0?


No it's not! Sorry @02.0 for answering for you


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> Is this It @O2.0?


 That's the very first one he did, we're up to version 5 now. They're all excellent, but the version V one talked about the 'media bubble' which I found particularly interesting.



Magyarmum said:


> not representative of the US as a whole


I'm not sure why this is quoting Magyarmum, as I thought @MilleD said the above, but yes. That NOW THIS video is scary and embarrassing and a lot of what is wrong with this country, but also _not_ very representative of most of us here.

I work with a diverse group Mondays and Wednesdays getting meals prepared and packed to be distributed in the community. We disagree on a lot politically, and we're not social distancing as well as we could packed in to a kitchen together (even if it is a commercial one), but none of us are under any illusions that this is a hoax, that schools should not be closed, that we should not be putting lives above the economy... And we're the ones actively working to help those hardest hit, we know how hard many have been hit economically, I can understand the protesters' frustrations, but I don't agree with their platform.


----------



## DogLover1981

I live on a road that's quite rural and today I heard three ambulances go my place. A bad omen when considering what's going on in the world. I seldom see or hear ambulances in my neighborhood and it's something I do notice.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> That's the very first one he did, we're up to version 5 now. They're all excellent, but the version V one talked about the 'media bubble' which I found particularly interesting.
> 
> I'm not sure why this is quoting Magyarmum, as I thought @MilleD said the above, but yes. That NOW THIS video is scary and embarrassing and a lot of what is wrong with this country, but also _not_ very representative of most of us here.
> 
> I work with a diverse group Mondays and Wednesdays getting meals prepared and packed to be distributed in the community. We disagree on a lot politically, and we're not social distancing as well as we could packed in to a kitchen together (even if it is a commercial one), but none of us are under any illusions that this is a hoax, that schools should not be closed, that we should not be putting lives above the economy... And we're the ones actively working to help those hardest hit, we know how hard many have been hit economically, I can understand the protesters' frustrations, but I don't agree with their platform.


Perhaps it's quoting Magyarmum because I was the one who said it You really must keep off the vodka so early in the morning

I thought this was an apt comment to the protesters video


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps it's quoting Magyarmum because I was the one who said it You really must keep off the vodka so early in the morning
> 
> I thought this was an apt comment to the protesters video


She's right @O2.0 it wasn't me


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> And we're the ones actively working to help those hardest hit, we know how hard many have been hit economically, I can understand the protesters' frustrations, but I don't agree with their platform.


Some of those protesters are just really coming across as idiots. I could understand people protesting lockdown due to the job losses and poverty that it will cause but there are people holding up signs demanding haircuts and wanting to go out for a beer. I feel like they dont even know what they are protesting for!


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps it's quoting Magyarmum because I was the one who said it You really must keep off the vodka so early in the morning
> 
> I thought this was an apt comment to the protesters video


I saw that quote too and loved it. Very apt. 
Early morning vodka or not wearing my 'cheater' glasses as my eye doctor so nicely puts it :Hilarious:Hilarious

Saw an excellent post from a guy in Atlanta. It's Georgia, SC, and Tennessee dropping a lot of restrictions and here's what this guy (in Georgia) says:



__ https://www.facebook.com/gchidi/posts/10158134349907485



For those who don't have FB he's basically saying that re-opening some businesses essentially prevents those workers for filing from unemployment because they can't claim their loss of work is involuntary. He's trying to save the state money essentially, prevent having to raise taxes to support the cost of all these people collecting unemployment.

The irony is that these protesters in other states who want their state to do what these southern states are doing, they're the ones who these governors are viewing as expendable. And they're protesting to be expendable. It's so messed up.....

In happier news, at least the mayor of Myrtle Beach (AKA the ******* Riviera and a massive vacation spot draw), despite orders by the Governor to re-open beaches and lakes, the mayor has kept all public accesses to Myrtle Beach closed. A very wise move IMO.

In even happier news, the state parks will re-open May 1 with restrictions. No gathering areas open, but the trails will be - woo hoo!!


----------



## O2.0

I found this informative. A little scary (about microdroplets) but also good information to know.

402577241[/MEDIA]]





402577241[/MEDIA]]Micro droplets suspending in air from MixonK on Vimeo.


----------



## O2.0

Oh look! CNN actually did a whole article on the John Oliver segment:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics/john-oliver-fox-news-coronavirus/index.html


----------



## Magyarmum

*The Daily Mash*

*Washing the shopping and four other insane habits that now seem normal*
22nd April 2020








*EVER think you would end up rubbing every item of shopping you buy with antibacterial spray? No? What other bizarre habits are now normal?*

*Washing the shopping*

Washing boxes of fish fingers used to be the kind of behaviour that Channel 5 enjoyed making lurid documentaries about. But now we're all obsessive-compulsive clean freaks who think nothing of rinsing a packet of crumpets under the tap.

*Wearing protective equipment to Sainsbury's*

Remember the days when the most you needed to pop to the shops was a jacket? Now a face mask and gloves are necessities, which must also be classed as essential because popping out for a bag of crisps could cause untold deaths.

*Clapping on your doorstep*

In the 'before' time, standing on your doorstep applauding the heroism of the Morrisons delivery driver would be looked upon with either derision or concern. Now the miseries who don't are the ones who are judged.

*Worrying the police will stop you for walking*

Walking along, rehearsing stories about how it's the only time you've been out that day officer in case you're stopped, paranoid about being caught by police… all a ridiculous fantasy of a fascist state mere months ago. Unless you're an ethnic minority, in which case same old same old.

*Being obsessed with flour*

Two months ago, the only bag of flour in the cupboard was a year old and full of mites and nobody cared. Now you rush to the baking aisle in Tesc, ignoring the one-way rules to get a precious kilo of super fine '00' grade. 'This is real pure,' you say, as you snort a pinch from the end of your knife.


----------



## JANICE199

*I found this a very interesting read.*

*https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/...sfDrjdfTITOKaURKUvGPfDHoWrMSxJyQXcwIR8T5xm7dM*


----------



## kittih

JANICE199 said:


> *I found this a very interesting read.*
> 
> *https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/...sfDrjdfTITOKaURKUvGPfDHoWrMSxJyQXcwIR8T5xm7dM*


This is a very interesting article. In particular the comment and reasoning as to why people may not experience obvious breathing difficulties until later in the disease progression and may not even realise they are unwell.

In early March, before much was described in the media I experienced an unusual chest infection where my lungs felt similar to the time when I experienced walking pneumonia tight ice cold feeling) but I didnt struggle to breathe though my breathing was more rapid. As I have asthma I am very familiar with the shortage of breath symptoms. I also didnt have a noticable temperature though had brief slight chills for a few hours only and no cough whatsoever. At the time I dismissed it as not corona related as it didnt match the stated dry continuous cough and temperature symptoms. However as more information and studies like this come out it does make me wonder whether I might have experienced the virus. Hard to know without antibody testing confirmation. Its now clear that few or no symptoms and no classic cough or temperature could well signal a Covid 19 infection.

It makes sense that it is build up of Carbon dioxide that signals to the brain an issue with breathing rather than a fall in oxygen so the drop in oxygen could be insidious.


----------



## lullabydream

kittih said:


> It makes sense that it is build up of Carbon dioxide that signals to the brain an issue with breathing


That's why breathing into a paper bag helps in asthma attacks and panic attacks, the 'automatic' part of the central nervous system kicks in or hopes to kick in, rather than ourselves breathing to some degree in panic attacks, and with asthma attacks, again the CNS is triggered to calm the breathing as its not successfully taking in oxygen so needs a different approach ie rate. Hope this makes sense


----------



## Happy Paws2

I watch an interview this morning with some people who want to help making PPE, one of them said they have already made nearly a million face masks to the right spec. and can't get a answer from the government so he having to think about selling aboard. What the hell is going on with the government.


----------



## kittih

Happy Paws2 said:


> I watch an interview this morning with some people who want to help making PPE, one of them said they have already made nearly a million face masks to the right spec. and can't get a answer from the government so he having to think about selling aboard. What the hell is going on with the government.


I have no idea but it is shocking. I have seen quite a few messages from medical profession friends asking for sources of scrubs. They are obviously now bypassing internal procurement processes. Harder to do with certain types of PPE I guess.


----------



## O2.0

JANICE199 said:


> *I found this a very interesting read.*
> 
> *https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/...sfDrjdfTITOKaURKUvGPfDHoWrMSxJyQXcwIR8T5xm7dM*


That is very interesting! I believe @catz4m8z was able to use on when she was sick. Am I right?


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> I watch an interview this morning with some people who want to help making PPE, one of them said they have already made nearly a million face masks to the right spec. and can't get a answer from the government so he having to think about selling aboard. What the hell is going on with the government.


dont get me wrong when i say this
but
i find it amazing that three of our local, but national chain, stores have their staff in full face visors
yet there are none for front line NHS or care home staff

I know not all masks are created equal and accept that there are guidleines
but
if three ( at least, after all they my be more, we dont have all national shops in our little town) national chain shops can get enough masks ( visor type not crappy paper ones)
why isnt the government procurring the firms to make them for the nhs standard guidelines


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> That is very interesting! I believe @catz4m8z was able to use on when she was sick. Am I right?


You can buy those oxygen readers.. Nearly typed in oxygen symbol for ease then but I thought I might confuse people!

Dr John Campbell has been advising this for a while on YouTube so stocks might be lowish.

I know a few people have them, I only have a home BP monitor due to my OHs high BP which is under control with medication. Its good to check occasionally


----------



## catz4m8z

kittih said:


> It makes sense that it is build up of Carbon dioxide that signals to the brain an issue with breathing rather than a fall in oxygen so the drop in oxygen could be insidious.


I read that article, it is very interesting the way it can present. I had no doubt that my oxygen levels were dropping low with it but according to my friend at work alot of the diagnosis is made from chest xrays. Sometimes they have people admitted without the shortness of breath or who have had several negative swabs but they all have identical chest xrays. Seems like the physical state of your lungs is the best way of telling if you have a serious case.



kittih said:


> I have no idea but it is shocking. I have seen quite a few messages from medical profession friends asking for sources of scrubs.


Apparently we have several kind members of the public making us scrubs.....and now nobody can tell who is a dr or nurse coz they all look the same!LOL



mrs phas said:


> if three ( at least, after all they my be more, we dont have all national shops in our little town) national chain shops can get enough masks ( visor type not crappy paper ones)
> why isnt the government procurring the firms to make them for the nhs standard guidelines


esp considering visors are usually one of the things that you can wash and wear again.


----------



## DogLover1981

An interesting and amusing thing I did read is that there are people that are against the use of vaccines and some of them are changing their minds because of this pandemic. O.O


----------



## Magyarmum

According to this article French Health Care workers are also suffering from a shortage of PPE.

https://www.allodocteurs.fr/maladie...ste-a-lhopital_29167.html#xtor=EPR-1000002224

*Gowns, masks, gloves ... the shortage of protections persists in the hospital*

What I can't understand is why the UK and France are short of all these items when Hungary has bought everything it needs to cope with the very worst outcome, including 8000 ventilators, from China.

https://bbj.hu/coronavirus/new-protective-gear-arrives-in-hungary-_181497

*New protective gear arrives in Hungary*


----------



## mrs phas

watching the one show tonight
if joe pasquale turned up on my doorstep with ppe
i think id die laughing
very underrated comedian and a 'celebrity' not just mouthing platitudes
but getting his hands dirty to help out
Kudos to him ( and everyone else)


----------



## O2.0

DogLover1981 said:


> An interesting and amusing thing I did read is that there are people that are against the use of vaccines and some of them are changing their minds because of this pandemic. O.O


Just goes to show how shallow their arguments are. 
I'll tell you what, if we still had polio or smallpox around, no one would even dream of not getting their children vaccinated - nah let them go through a bout of polio, it will strengthen their immune system


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## samuelsmiles3

Nice story. 

Ancient Mill Back in Action to Meet Coronavirus Demand

"In Britain, a historic and ancient mill, that dates back a millennium is once more producing flour after 50 years. The Sturminster Newton Mill is milling flour to meet soaring demand during the coronavirus pandemic".


----------



## Cully

I read about the recommendation to take vitamin D as we may not be getting enough through not being able to go out. It said 10mcg is the correct dosage. I checked on the pot of D3 that I have taken for a long time now and it says dosage is 25ug.
Can anyone throw any light on if I'm taking the recommended dosage?


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> I read about the recommendation to take vitamin D as we may not be getting enough through not being able to go out. It said 10mcg is the correct dosage. I checked on the pot of D3 that I have taken for a long time now and it says dosage is 25ug.
> Can anyone throw any light on if I'm taking the recommended dosage?


https://sciencing.com/convert-between-iu-mg-mcg-8298314.html


----------



## ForestWomble

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Nice story.
> 
> Ancient Mill Back in Action to Meet Coronavirus Demand
> 
> "In Britain, a historic and ancient mill, that dates back a millennium is once more producing flour after 50 years. The Sturminster Newton Mill is milling flour to meet soaring demand during the coronavirus pandemic".


Thank you for sharing that.

I hope that is just the start, would be good if we can start making more stuff for ourselves and not needing to rely on other countries so much.


----------



## rona

Press keep talking about how we ease lockdown, from what I can see, lockdown is easing already.
Vehicles on the road seem to be up to normal levels, minus school traffic.
The walk I did this morning, I've done once a week since lockdown. The first week I saw 2-3 cars, this doubled every week until this morning. I couldn't count this morning as there must have been well over 100 and most of those were not vans or lorries


----------



## Bertie'sMum

Cully said:


> I read about the recommendation to take vitamin D as we may not be getting enough through not being able to go out. It said 10mcg is the correct dosage. I checked on the pot of D3 that I have taken for a long time now and it says dosage is 25ug.
> Can anyone throw any light on if I'm taking the recommended dosage?


I take the same strength vitamin D3 but then I'm in my 70's and have osteoporosis. 
25 ug is the same as 25 mcg - so if you only need 10 mcg you should switch to the lower strength (available in Holland & Barrett).


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Press keep talking about how we ease lockdown, from what I can see, lockdown is easing already.
> Vehicles on the road seem to be up to normal levels, minus school traffic.
> The walk I did this morning, I've done once a week since lockdown. The first week I saw 2-3 cars, this doubled every week until this morning. I couldn't count this morning as there must have been well over 100 and most of those were not vans or lorries


I'm pleased to say it's still very quiet on the roads and High Streets around me.

Quite a lot of walkers, runners and cyclists but thankfully lots of open spaces and most people are following social distancing.


----------



## O2.0

I'm finding myself reporting about 3 to 4 posts a day on FB as false news. Love that FB now has this option. A friend just shared that stupid video about using a blowdryer to kill the virus. She's a sweet gal but gullible. In the past any time I've said "no that's not true" she's been totally fine about it, but she's getting that post from somewhere, and by reporting it as False News hopefully FB will go to the source.


----------



## Cully

Bertie'sMum said:


> I take the same strength vitamin D3 but then I'm in my 70's and have osteoporosis.
> 25 ug is the same as 25 mcg - so if you only need 10 mcg you should switch to the lower strength (available in Holland & Barrett).


Thanks. Well I'm 67 and have osteoarthritis in my spine and arthritis in my knees and hips, amongst most other joints to a lesser degree. So maybe I should stick to the 25mcg.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> I read about the recommendation to take vitamin D as we may not be getting enough through not being able to go out. It said 10mcg is the correct dosage. I checked on the pot of D3 that I have taken for a long time now and it says dosage is 25ug.
> Can anyone throw any light on if I'm taking the recommended dosage?


I take the 25ug simply because as we age the uptake in older folk is not as efficient as that in young adults. The chance that we're absorbing less is highly likely


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> I take the 25ug simply because as we age the uptake in older folk is not as efficient as that in young adults. The chance that we're absorbing less is highly likely


The ones I take are 62.5 ug - or whatever that funny symbol is. That must be pretty high - I think 10ug equates to 400iu and the ones my Doc gave me were only 800iu.

Not had any problems yet fingers crossed.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm pleased to say it's still very quiet on the roads and High Streets around me.
> 
> Quite a lot of walkers, runners and cyclists but thankfully lots of open spaces and most people are following social distancing.


Same here - this was Richmond Bridge on Saturday lunchtime, normally chocabloc.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Same here - this was Richmond Bridge on Saturday lunchtime, normally chocabloc.


I think it might be getting a bit busier round here.

Went out of a 20 miler on my bike yesterday and there are definitely more cars around. I'm not on main roads much either. The M6 where I cross it certainly had more cars on rather than just lorries like it's had recently. Could have been the time of day I guess.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been thinking there are more cars about when on my daily trip to the hospital.

Building work has started on an extension onto a cottage across the valley from me, I guess that’s ok if everyone can keep distant from one another.


----------



## HarlequinCat

The dual carriage way by me is a lot busier than it was. I think people are getting itchy feet with this nice weather. 

I heard the government or police have updated their guidelines so you can drive to where you exercise as long as it is under an hr away? Dont quote me on that. It was just something I'd heard and wondered if anyone had heard the same?

Saying that a lot of people are still home and just in their gardens. Apart from next door who have kids. I think they are going out more often and stay out a while. I dont hear them in the garden as much


----------



## Sacrechat

I’ve been taken off Vitamin D3, because my levels are too high. I have to go back for another blood test in June to see if it has dropped but not dropped too low. I’m sitting in my garden every day, so I should be getting enough.


----------



## O2.0

Everything I read about vitamin D says to check your blood levels as it's also not good to have too much Vit. D. But of course getting a blood test is not so easy right now. 

I've turned my summer brown two months early so I'm going to guess my levels are okay


----------



## Mum2Heidi

I found the vitamin D post v informative. I know a few people who have continued supplementing this year. I stopped and considered restarting but I spend a lot of time outside. Think I’ll also take my summer tan as confirmation my levels are ok.
Police here haven’t gone with the national guidelines and enforce no driving to exercise more stringently. Have to say people are being pretty sensible about it. Realistically in this are most of us are fortunate to have open spaces nearby. I’m out for almost 2hrs at one time most days but the area is very quiet and I keep moving,


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> I've been taken off Vitamin D3, because my levels are too high. I have to go back for another blood test in June to see if it has dropped but not dropped too low. I'm sitting in my garden every day, so I should be getting enough.


Absolutely you can get too much, obviously I don't think the low doses will do too much harm per se a lot of over the counter D3 are really low.. I say this because I think I should have my D3 checked. I started taking vitamin D years ago, hearing the hype asked a customer adviser at a popular retail place they advised me to buy a certain strength as most popular and I was tested for low vitamin D and mine was really low.

Anyway the point I was making is there was a case a couple of years ago in my local area where an elderly patient died as they had been given a prescribed dose of vitamin D wrongly. Instead of monthly as it should have been it was given daily.. So of course it can be dangerous. Am guessing it was an extremely high dose and a really bad error.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> The ones I take are 62.5 ug - or whatever that funny symbol is. That must be pretty high - I think 10ug equates to 400iu and the ones my Doc gave me were only 800iu.
> 
> Not had any problems yet fingers crossed.


That's a funny size; the ones commonly available are usually either 10 or 25ug

Ps. Hope its not from an 'unusual' country


----------



## Sacrechat

lullabydream said:


> Absolutely you can get too much, obviously I don't think the low doses will do too much harm per se a lot of over the counter D3 are really low.. I say this because I think I should have my D3 checked. I started taking vitamin D years ago, hearing the hype asked a customer adviser at a popular retail place they advised me to buy a certain strength as most popular and I was tested for low vitamin D and mine was really low.
> 
> Anyway the point I was making is there was a case a couple of years ago in my local area where an elderly patient died as they had been given a prescribed dose of vitamin D wrongly. Instead of monthly as it should have been it was given daily.. So of course it can be dangerous. Am guessing it was an extremely high dose and a really bad error.


As you know, due to my operation all my supplements are prescribed. I still take Forceval which contains Vit D3 and attached is the information my surgeon sent to my GP with regard to the supplements I should be taking. Of course, these are all subject to change following my 3 monthly blood tests.









Of course, the reason why the amounts are so high for me is because 1 metre if my bowel has been bypassed, so I don't absorb all that I need from food. I do think, though, the reason My D3 is almost at toxic levels is because I sit outside at every opportunity. Come winter, I may need supplements again.


----------



## Jaf

I’ve read that vitaminD from the sun is safe, and cannot be overdosed on. 

Mine is still a bit low, so will double up the tablets.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> That's a funny size; the ones commonly available are usually either 10 or 25ug
> 
> Ps. Hope its not from an 'unusual' country




No, it's from the UK. https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/vitamin-d3-softgels/10530530.html

Interestingly, it's being limited to 5 per customer - that has GOT to do with the Coronavirus advice!


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Absolutely you can get too much, obviously I don't think the low doses will do too much harm per se a lot of over the counter D3 are really low.. I say this because I think I should have my D3 checked. I started taking vitamin D years ago, hearing the hype asked a customer adviser at a popular retail place they advised me to buy a certain strength as most popular and I was tested for low vitamin D and mine was really low.
> 
> Anyway the point I was making is there was a case a couple of years ago in my local area where an elderly patient died as they had been given a prescribed dose of vitamin D wrongly. Instead of monthly as it should have been it was given daily.. So of course it can be dangerous. Am guessing it was an extremely high dose and a really bad error.


It can cause dangerously high calcium levels which can be fatal. A monthly dose every day does seem very high!


----------



## Jesthar

Still quiet traffic wise my way.

Drove in to work for a short time today as I finally got permission to bring my desktop home. Went at what would usually be near-peak rush hour time on roads that would usually be crawling, including a major motorway junction roundabout. Traffic levels were more 7am Sunday morning levels. and I sailed through..


----------



## samuelsmiles3

The police have been asking people to not go to the countryside and have been using drone film to point out the error of their ways, yet they seem to permit this clapping on a packed Westminster Bridge. Confused.

https://www.newsflare.com/video/352533


----------



## lullabydream

samuelsmiles3 said:


> The police have been asking people to not go to the countryside and have been using drone film to point out the error of their ways, yet they seem to permit this clapping on a packed Westminster Bridge. Confused.
> 
> https://www.newsflare.com/video/352533


I thought that was old news about Westminster Bridge? I feel I am having a deja vu moment that was said in the media a couple of weeks ago. I don't know I didn't take it in, but am guessing putting 2 news stories together makes a bigger news story!


----------



## Jesthar

lullabydream said:


> I thought that was old news about Westminster Bridge? I feel I am having a deja vu moment that was said in the media a couple of weeks ago. I don't know I didn't take it in, but am guessing putting 2 news stories together makes a bigger news story!


It's genuine deja vu as the muppets did it again this week... 

(Shame, as I'd got a bet on it being our resident wum artist at it again, so I owe myself a fiver now!  )


----------



## MilleD

Wow, apparently as I work for the council, if I experience symptoms, I'm able to request I get a test, along with members of my household.

They have set up testing facilities at Stoke city and Burton Albion football grounds.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Wow, apparently as I work for the council, if I experience symptoms, I'm able to request I get a test, along with members of my household.
> 
> They have set up testing facilities at Stoke city and Burton Albion football grounds.


Same here, my son works for the council too.

Let's hope they have testing slots available!

I did like the numpty journalist saying that if you have to do this online at 8 am some people work shifts so 8 am isn't viable for many.. That got shot down by saying if you have symptoms that could be the virus you shouldn't be working which is true. Yes it could be a cold, but it's always said to self isolate just in case. There are figures or were that many tested didn't have coronovirus yes they may have flu or another virus but still it's pretty obvious from the start no matter how guilty you feel you shouldn't be working.


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ope-52395866&usg=AOvVaw3wWkfrG1bhTQqxVBayvWPh

Has Sweden got it right?


----------



## Elles

cheekyscrip said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwiF4qz5sYPpAhW1DWMBHdlUCYoQyM8BMAF6BAgDEAQ&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-52395866&usg=AOvVaw3wWkfrG1bhTQqxVBayvWPh
> 
> Has Sweden got it right?


The U.K. tried the same thing, but unlike the Swedes, we gathered on beaches and had parties. I'm sure Sweden has got it as right as they can for Sweden.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Anyone wonder, where all this money been spent on health services all around the world is coming from and whats going to happen when it's all over.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone wonder, where all this money been spent on health services all around the world is coming from and whats going to happen when it's all over.


I have been wondering the same thing
If every one is borrowing from everyone else just what is going to happen


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> Apart from next door who have kids.


Are schoolchildren having lessons while home? Just wondered as my son's friend is at university in Hong Kong and the lectures have been by Skype for months now (since the violent protests a while back). Not sure if the schools here are doing similar.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> Are schoolchildren having lessons while home? Just wondered as my son's friend is at university in Hong Kong and the lectures have been by Skype for months now (since the violent protests a while back). Not sure if the schools here are doing similar.


Schools are sending work home here.. So yes they are getting work. Most parents I know have a good routine.

There's lots of resources available to parents that was teacher only resources cost free.

The BBC have some virtual bitesize type lessons with some celebs. Which matches curriculum.

As its more intense, one to one, hopefully learning shouldn't go down hill. I hope this is the theory, it's always been the theory before this for those who get home education provided by the LA. Limited hours in a day, only a couple but it's 1-1 so they shouldn't miss out.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> I have been wondering the same thing
> If every one is borrowing from everyone else just what is going to happen


another thought, could the money run out.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

My grandchildren 13 and 9 have school work to do at home. Targets etc. Very well structured.
Taken a bit of setting up with son and daughter in law both working from home as well.
They work the same hours as Mum(which is normal school hours) with the usual breaks. Took a while to establish a routine and I believe it’s still being finely tuned.
To their credit 13yr old has had 6 house points for submitting work above her usual school standard and grandson has had a glowing letter of praise from his teacher for his.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I feel for the children who parents aren't up to doing home schooling. 

I'd never have been able to teach a child, I never did any good at school and there are a lot of people the same.


----------



## O2.0

Happy Paws2 said:


> I feel for the children who parents aren't up to doing home schooling.


My own kids are doing fine with working from home, we have plenty of resources, reliable WiFi, they each have their own computer, a comfortable home, few distractions, available parents.... 
Plenty of their classmates are not in the same boat at all. 
They don't have reliable WiFi and places with free WiFi you can't go in, so they have to sit in the car and do work, if they have access to a car. Others are watching younger siblings because parents have to work, others are in unsafe home environments, or have tons of other family members, only one computer, no place to sit comfortably and work... It's not ideal to say the least.


----------



## lullabydream

Happy Paws2 said:


> I feel for the children who parents aren't up to doing home schooling.
> 
> I'd never have been able to teach a child, I never did any good at school and there are a lot of people the same.


Those classed as vulnerable are still at school, so usually the ones that parents would be unable to teach per se

My friend worried she would struggle. She didn't have a very good education and went to a special school where the focus was for learning in those days was very different in some areas. However as an adult what she does have is a lot of common sense, exceptional maths skills which she uses everyday for her sewing which she's never considered. She did have a wobble at first saying she will never be able to do this easily, her children are working at primary aged school work and to be honest it's just been getting her confidence up to do the work, rather than the work is a challenge if that makes sense.

I know working with parents in schools that just the 'smell' of a school, being in a school can bring back bad memories. Many struggle with schools and everything related even though they would like the best for their children. They struggle with parents as a partnership so I understand that education at home is daunting task.. However a teacher would also be failing a child if they were also setting work a child was unable to do.. There is challenging a child's ability and setting a child upto fail. The latter should never be done

@Happy Paws2 I am sure you have many skills you are unaware that you could teach a child, that would help them to learn as part of their curriculum. Learning can be fun!


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone wonder, where all this money been spent on health services all around the world is coming from and whats going to happen when it's all over.


It depends where the money is coming from. If it was country to country or Central banks, it would be nice if they all got together and wrote off the debt. But that won't happen so all the governments will be repaying the debt for years to come.

Done will be coming from private financing via treasury bonds I imagine, some normal borrowing. Gonna be interesting to see how it all gets sorted.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Calvine said:


> Are schoolchildren having lessons while home? Just wondered as my son's friend is at university in Hong Kong and the lectures have been by Skype for months now (since the violent protests a while back). Not sure if the schools here are doing similar.


They could be, generally the kids are out in the sun in the afternoon, so could be having morning lessons. I'm not too sure about that. But it is always quiet weekday mornings


----------



## Jobeth

https://www.thenational.academy/online-classroom/

This has been set up to support home school learning. Unfortunately it is only for those that have access to the internet. On Facebook 'ICT with Mr P' does some tongue in cheek videos about the reality of home schooling even when you're a teacher.


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> ICT with Mr P


He's very very good!


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> He's very very good!


Some of his videos are really funny. I do wonder what his position is in school due to the comments that he makes.


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> Some of his videos are really funny. I do wonder what his position is in school due to the comments that he makes.


My friend went to see him a couple of months ago.. Must ask her.. She said he was excellent! He did a tour


----------



## MollySmith

Meanwhile this from the odious Allison Pearson who doesn't remember her own unforgettable column. The headline is from an article dated 3 March, the tweet is today...


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> Meanwhile this from the odious Allison Pearson who doesn't remember her own unforgettable column. The headline is from an article dated 3 March, the tweet is today...
> 
> View attachment 437677
> 
> 
> View attachment 437678


I actually can't believe what I read.. Then again nice hot day here and it brought people out in droves where I was.. Listening to the journalists at the briefing most days, I do think they haven't a clue either anyway. I said this earlier in today's thread but yesterday when talking about getting testing in yesterday briefing if you think you have the virus if you are one of those essential workers, one journalist asking well isn't there going to be other times to request an appointment other than 8am. If you are working shift work, you might not be able to log on due to work.. As completely shot down by those in the brief if you have symptoms you shouldn't be working end of. Yes it might not be Covid-19 but you shouldn't be taking that risk.


----------



## oliviarussian

I still haven’t got over the shock of Priti Patel at the daily briefing telling us that shoplifting figures are down!!!!! I wonder if anyone has told her that the shops are shut .... you couldn’t make it up!


----------



## kimthecat

oliviarussian said:


> I still haven't got over the shock of Priti Patel at the daily briefing telling us that shoplifting figures are down!!!!! I wonder if anyone has told her that the shops are shut .... you couldn't make it up!


:Hilarious


----------



## Elles

oliviarussian said:


> I still haven't got over the shock of Priti Patel at the daily briefing telling us that shoplifting figures are down!!!!! I wonder if anyone has told her that the shops are shut .... you couldn't make it up!


Maybe that's the point. Keep the shops shut, we don't need them.


----------



## DogLover1981

Seven new deaths in my state. I thought it was under control here but we will see. 

https://www.wmur.com/article/7-new-...ost-deaths-announced-in-a-single-day/32277313


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> Meanwhile this from the odious Allison Pearson who doesn't remember her own unforgettable column. The headline is from an article dated 3 March, the tweet is today...
> 
> View attachment 437677
> 
> 
> View attachment 437678


just wow. I'm a relatively healthy women in my forties and it still hit me like a freight train, they really dont know why some people are more susceptible as yet but being younger and healthier doesnt make you immune (not to mention passing it on to more vulnerable people).

Although good news today that they are finally rolling out antibody testing, they must have a reliable test at last! Thats going to be fantastic if we know who now has some immunity to it.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> just wow. I'm a relatively healthy women in my forties and it still hit me like a freight train, they really dont know why some people are more susceptible as yet but being younger and healthier doesnt make you immune (not to mention passing it on to more vulnerable people).
> 
> Although good news today that they are finally rolling out antibody testing, they must have a reliable test at last! Thats going to be fantastic if we know who now has some immunity to it.


The WHO say there's no guarantee that having survived Covid-19 gives you immunity from the disease.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...have-survived-coronavirus-have-immunity-says/

*No evidence that people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, says World Health Organisation*


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> Although good news today that they are finally rolling out antibody testing, they must have a reliable test at last! Thats going to be fantastic if we know who now has some immunity to it.


I can't find the link but it's not cut and dry as that, it's a new virus. There is hope as it's a Coronavirus it should be like colds and flu that we should get 18 months maybe for protection. So hopefully enough time for a vaccine. Though we really don't know, as it really is a new virus and there isn't the year's and years of data. The hope is if you do catch it again, as they are saying you would get a weaker dose but who knows

I will let Doctor Mike explain better off YouTube the problems with antibody testing


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> just wow. I'm a relatively healthy women in my forties and it still hit me like a freight train, they really dont know why some people are more susceptible as yet but being younger and healthier doesnt make you immune (not to mention passing it on to more vulnerable people).
> 
> Although good news today that they are finally rolling out antibody testing, they must have a reliable test at last! Thats going to be fantastic if we know who now has some immunity to it.


I confess I detest most of her views. Journalists have a responsibility. Fortunately Twitter has largely taken her to task but it irritates me that it was written and buried under Trump's stupidly but it's equally dangerous.

I posted a link a while back about how The Guardian is taking a new editorial policy to manage its language and tone, and published the support its giving to journalists as this can't be easy. They can't switch off. That's why I've decided to only check that site and Simple Politics (and even then once a day).

it's great news about the test, it's so good to see rival companies and researchers working together.


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> The WHO say there's no guarantee that having survived Covid-19 gives you immunity from the disease.
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...have-survived-coronavirus-have-immunity-says/
> 
> *No evidence that people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, says World Health Organisation*


Apparently our PM retuning to work tomorrow is a huge boost (who knew...I'm clearly hard to please!) I hope Keri Starmer or someone in the media with the spine to ask, will ask if he's up for explaining herd immunity now.

I'm curious as to him having been in intensive care will affect his policies.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> just wow. I'm a relatively healthy women in my forties and it still hit me like a freight train, they really dont know why some people are more susceptible as yet but being younger and healthier doesnt make you immune (not to mention passing it on to more vulnerable people).
> 
> Although good news today that they are finally rolling out antibody testing, they must have a reliable test at last! Thats going to be fantastic if we know who now has some immunity to it.


I must have missed this. Sorry you have been ill.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Apparently our PM retuning to work tomorrow is a huge boost (who knew...I'm clearly hard to please!) I hope Keri Starmer or someone in the media with the spine to ask, will ask if he's up for explaining herd immunity now.
> 
> I'm curious as to him having been in intensive care will affect his policies.


We've been previously told not to talk politics in this thread .


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> We've been previously told not to talk politics in this thread .


Yes, good point. It's very hard not to!


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Yes, good point. It's very hard not to!


I know ! I really wanted to reply. :Hilarious


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> I'm curious as to him having been in intensive care will affect his policies.


idk about policies but I imagine he will have a greater respect for the NHS and more sympathy for those who have been affected.
Honestly I think this will be a world changing event in some ways. Wether thats economic, social, environmental or just in how we shop or interact who knows??


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> explaining herd immunity now.


Herd immunity works with vaccines though, we can't look at vaccine concepts without looking at herd immunity. They go together.

Vaccination is the way forward, with it comes herd immunity which then irradicates the virus. If it works as it should, and if enough people take it up.

People read, hear, herd immunity and take it out of context so often. Even what Sweden are doing not everyone agrees in the science world that it's a clear herd immunity experiment but they are look at it as an experiment even though they are taking advise from an epidemiologist.


----------



## willa

I work in a nursery school & I’m fed up with all the constant rumours in the Press about schools reopening.
At the end of the day nobody knows, I doubt Government have any idea yet.

I’ll tell ya something teaching our toddlers remotely on Zoom is a brand new experience, god it’s stressful.Not helped by the WiFi being weak so causes Zoom to loose connection


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> I work in a nursery school & I'm fed up with all the constant rumours in the Press about schools reopening.
> At the end of the day nobody knows, I doubt Government have any idea yet.
> 
> I'll tell ya something teaching our toddlers remotely on Zoom is a brand new experience, god it's stressful.Not helped by the WiFi being weak so causes Zoom to loose connection


The media currently take anything they hear and run with it.. The journalists from what I have seen from the daily briefings don't even get the word pandemic, why we have to be in lockdown, why you shouldn't work if you feel you may have symptoms, it simply doesn't seem to go in I don't even think they realise how we are saving the NHS with this lockdown either and why the necessisity to do so.. I know they all want to be at the forefront of some amazing Covid-19 story but they don't seem to see the wood for the tree. The stories are there, there are charities working aimlessly in all areas in this lockdown but only local news are recording it if it's lucky. They rather highlight nothing and repeat. This should and to be honest majority is about coming together, nothing else to fight Covid-19 and it's about people not politics!


----------



## O2.0

willa said:


> I work in a nursery school & I'm fed up with all the constant rumours in the Press about schools reopening.
> At the end of the day nobody knows, I doubt Government have any idea yet.
> 
> I'll tell ya something teaching our toddlers remotely on Zoom is a brand new experience, god it's stressful.Not helped by the WiFi being weak so causes Zoom to loose connection


Are you really trying to teach on zoom with such young kids? I would have thought with that age the zoom meetings would simply be a quick check-in. Surely toddlers wouldn't be able to sit at a screen much longer than a few minutes anyway?


----------



## willa

O2.0 said:


> Are you really trying to teach on zoom with such young kids? I would have thought with that age the zoom meetings would simply be a quick check-in. Surely toddlers wouldn't be able to sit at a screen much longer than a few minutes anyway?


Yes we have to do a 30min session once a day.
It's crazy


----------



## O2.0

willa said:


> Yes we have to do a 30min session once a day.
> It's crazy


30 minutes a day for PRE-school? As in 2 and 3 year olds? What is the rationale for that? How very odd....


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> Yes we have to do a 30min session once a day.
> It's crazy


Not doing zoom sessions here for primary school.. Not every child has Internet access. Or they might but shared between children.. Usually a secondary age school child would take priority for work. They can't easily liase with all secondary schools as there are various here children go to, as children or parent have the right to choose though often pay transport costs.


----------



## willa

lullabydream said:


> Not doing zoom sessions here for primary school.. Not every child has Internet access. Or they might but shared between children.. Usually a secondary age school child would take priority for work. They can't easily liase with all secondary schools as there are various here children go to, as children or parent have the right to choose though often pay transport costs.


Lucky you ! I hate online teaching on Zoom. So much pressure as we have all the kids and parents watching 
I just do what my headmistress tells us


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> Lucky you ! I hate online teaching on Zoom. So much pressure as we have all the kids and parents watching
> I just do what my headmistress tells us


Haven't worked in nursery settings for a while but input was 10 minutes for an activity, short and sweet to get the point across. Most is observational, incidental and learning through play.. 30 minutes is so long for them to take in what they need to do.


----------



## Jobeth

willa said:


> Lucky you ! I hate online teaching on Zoom. So much pressure as we have all the kids and parents watching
> I just do what my headmistress tells us


We have been told not to use Zoom and delete it from all devices as it's not secure.


----------



## willa

Jobeth said:


> We have been told not to use Zoom and delete it from all devices as it's not secure.


What do you mean not secure ?!


----------



## Jobeth

willa said:


> What do you mean not secure ?!


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...safe-hack-how-secure-encryption-a9440461.html


----------



## kittih

Jobeth said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...safe-hack-how-secure-encryption-a9440461.html


@willa I think if a password is used, which is not accessible to anyone except the intended participants and no sensitive information is discussed then it is in my opinion OK to use. People just need to be aware that any online information they are sharing isnt private. In most circumstances this isnt a problem but if you are using Zoom or any other conferencing or chat app then its wise to be aware and cautious about what is shared.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Why would someone waiting outside the blood test clinic to be called in because they are operating social distancing measures to safeguard everyone, decide to stand and wait leaning on the railings right by the entrance! 

And when they’re asked politely by another user to give some space so they can enter/exit maintaining the 2m distance, why would they sneer and act like that person is being unreasonable and making an unnecessary fuss!

I really hate some people


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> Haven't worked in nursery settings for a while but input was 10 minutes for an activity, short and sweet to get the point across. Most is observational, incidental and learning through play.. 30 minutes is so long for them to take in what they need to do.


Exactly, teaching routines, procedures, following directions, and play, lots and lots of play. Absolutely zero point in giving a pre-schooler a 30 minute lesson remotely. Unless it's 30 minutes working with parents as well as in a occupational or physical therapy type setting. Kids that age aren't even capable of 10 minutes sustained attention let alone 30. Our state recommendation for *sustained* attention for pre-school is 3 to 5 minutes. 
@willa is there a rationale for why the 30 minutes? What sorts of things are you doing for 30 minutes?


----------



## Jobeth

kittih said:


> @willa I think if a password is used, which is not accessible to anyone except the intended participants and no sensitive information is discussed then it is in my opinion OK to use. People just need to be aware that any online information they are sharing isnt private. In most circumstances this isnt a problem but if you are using Zoom or any other conferencing or chat app then its wise to be aware and cautious about what is shared.


I don't want to go further off topic but this was the advice given by a specialist IT service to a council following two incidents that were highly concerning.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Why would someone waiting outside the blood test clinic to be called in because they are operating social distancing measures to safeguard everyone, decide to stand and wait leaning on the railings right by the entrance!
> 
> And when they're asked politely by another user to give some space so they can enter/exit maintaining the 2m distance, why would they sneer and act like that person is being unreasonable and making an unnecessary fuss!
> 
> I really hate some people


Tried to walk locally and during the day yesterday. My god what a nightmare, Families spread across whole paths and when we did actually meet a couple of families who moved to the side to pass us as we stood the other side, people whizzed through the middle, putting both us and the careful families at risk 
Never again, I got up at 5 again this morning, had a lovely walk around the forest


----------



## O2.0

Jobeth said:


> I don't want to go further off topic but this was the advice given by a specialist IT service to a council following two incidents that were highly concerning.


We were also told to be careful with Zoom. Google already had google meet for those using G suite, and it's supposedly safer, then when most schools went to online learning, they quickly created a google meet specifically for google classroom platforms. That's what we're using.


----------



## MilleD

Jobeth said:


> I don't want to go further off topic but this was the advice given by a specialist IT service to a council following two incidents that were highly concerning.


I work for a council and I wouldn't be able to use Zoom in their systems. The kit we use is restricted to certain downloads and programmes. I'm surprised someone in a council was able to use it.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve just had a letter from my GP which states, amongst other things, that the NHS has identified me as a at risk of severe illness if I catch covid 19.

Is this the letter that others have been getting which allow them priority over booking food delivery slots?


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I've just had a letter from my GP which states, amongst other things, that the NHS has identified me as a at risk of severe illness if I catch covid 19.
> 
> Is this the letter that others have been getting which allow them priority over booking food delivery slots?


It must be the first line, I am presuming they will pass this on to the government. Someone else said similar.. I don't think all GPS had been asked initially I know my surgery hadn't because my GP friend was getting annoyed he had at risk people and couldn't contact people and not sure consultants would.

It's obviously a huge undertaking anyway logistically.

Maybe you will get an official text and be a third wave.

Someone said they had a GP letter too but can't remember who.


----------



## Jobeth

MilleD said:


> I work for a council and I wouldn't be able to use Zoom in their systems. The kit we use is restricted to certain downloads and programmes. I'm surprised someone in a council was able to use it.


The advice was given to everyone in the council. It wasn't because someone downloaded it on to a work laptop. I don't want to explain further as it's not relevant and people can decide if they want to use it or not.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> I've just had a letter from my GP which states, amongst other things, that the NHS has identified me as a at risk of severe illness if I catch covid 19.
> 
> Is this the letter that others have been getting which allow them priority over booking food delivery slots?


Yes


----------



## mrs phas

For those with younger children

BBC News - Coronavirus alert: Rare syndrome seen in UK children
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52439005


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I've just had a letter from my GP which states, amongst other things, that the NHS has identified me as a at risk of severe illness if I catch covid 19.
> 
> Is this the letter that others have been getting which allow them priority over booking food delivery slots?


My friend has just received his too. No good him having priority, he doesn't use the internet.


----------



## kimthecat

This little boy Christian is following in Captain Toms footsteps. He has cerebral palsy. Bless him. 
https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/24/brit...gn-us-christian-walking-3-miles-nhs-12606258/


----------



## MilleD

I missed a call from the National Shielding Helpline yesterday. Hope it wasn't important!


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> I missed a call from the National Shielding Helpline yesterday. Hope it wasn't important!


Mmmm probably was.. Why else were they phoning.

Hope you can carry on as you are though!


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Mmmm probably was.. Why else were they phoning.
> 
> Hope you can carry on as you are though!


From what I've read, I think they are checking up that people haven't fallen through the cracks. Making sure they are ok with food etc.


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH has just been tested for Covid-19 in A&E before he can be transferred to a ward (if necessary) depending on test results.

He’s there for checks because of potentially serious reactions (again ) to chemo, not symptoms of Covid, but at least they’re testing before admitting people, so hopefully he’ll be safe on the ward.

He had to stay in just over a week last time, but at least I could visit. Prefer him to come home with me as he’s extremely vulnerable, obviously. Bit scary tbh. 

He didn’t see much social distancing in the department waiting area though (so hope no spreaders in there).

Not much SD at the door either, particularly with the Security staff who have encountered many people as I’ve sat in car waiting.


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> I'm finding myself reporting about 3 to 4 posts a day on FB as false news. Love that FB now has this option. A friend just shared that stupid video about using a blowdryer to kill the virus. She's a sweet gal but gullible. In the past any time I've said "no that's not true" she's been totally fine about it, but she's getting that post from somewhere, and by reporting it as False News hopefully FB will go to the source.


The only issue I have with this option on Facebook is the number of posts classed as fake news when they are meant to be a joke. Facebook doesn't seem capable of telling the difference.


----------



## rona

Hoping he comes home with you


----------



## O2.0

Sacremist said:


> The only issue I have with this option on Facebook is the number of posts classed as fake news when they are meant to be a joke. Facebook doesn't seem capable of telling the difference.


Nor apparently do FB users seem capable of telling the difference. Had an excellent giggle this morning at a Trump supporter who shared a parody piece about him thinking it was serious :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> Nor apparently do FB users seem capable of telling the difference. Had an excellent giggle this morning at a Trump supporter who shared a parody piece about him thinking it was serious :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


That's true, there's some really dumb people out there!


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> OH has just been tested for Covid-19 in A&E before he can be transferred to a ward (if necessary) depending on test results.
> 
> He's there for checks because of potentially serious reactions (again ) to chemo, not symptoms of Covid, but at least they're testing before admitting people, so hopefully he'll be safe on the ward.
> 
> He had to stay in just over a week last time, but at least I could visit. Prefer him to come home with me as he's extremely vulnerable, obviously. Bit scary tbh.
> 
> He didn't see much social distancing in the department waiting area though (so hope no spreaders in there).
> 
> Not much SD at the door either, particularly with the Security staff who have encountered many people as I've sat in car waiting.


I'm so sorry, thinking of you both and hope he is home soon.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Lurcherlad said:


> OH has just been tested for Covid-19 in A&E before he can be transferred to a ward (if necessary) depending on test results.
> 
> He's there for checks because of potentially serious reactions (again ) to chemo, not symptoms of Covid, but at least they're testing before admitting people, so hopefully he'll be safe on the ward.
> 
> He had to stay in just over a week last time, but at least I could visit. Prefer him to come home with me as he's extremely vulnerable, obviously. Bit scary tbh.
> 
> He didn't see much social distancing in the department waiting area though (so hope no spreaders in there).
> 
> Not much SD at the door either, particularly with the Security staff who have encountered many people as I've sat in car waiting.


Hope your OH is ok as can be and home soon x


----------



## Siskin

I am glad that they are testing people before being admitted into hospital (if necessary). I was wondering if this might happen when I have the operation in the future. I'm pretty sure we haven't had the virus, but it would be interesting to know.

Hope your husband comes home with you today @Lurcherlad.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Thanks all.

They’re keeping him in overnight (only, fingers crossed) - thankfully in a room on his own.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Hope he's OK and will be able to go home soon.


----------



## ForestWomble

Hope your husband can come home soon, at least he is in his own room so hopefully he'll be safe @Lurcherlad


----------



## Sacrechat

Sorry to hear your husband is being kept in hospital @Lurcherlad; I hope all goes well and he's back home soon.


----------



## karenmc

Hope your husband is back home soon.x


----------



## Bisbow

Hope all will be well with him and he is home soon


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> They're keeping him in overnight (only, fingers crossed) - thankfully in a room on his own.


Fingers crossed.


----------



## ebonycat

Lurcherlad said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> They're keeping him in overnight (only, fingers crossed) - thankfully in a room on his own.


Hope your OH feels better by the morning & comes home tomorrow.
Thinking of you & sending healing vibes his way x


----------



## SbanR

Thinking of you both. Xx


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> OH has just been tested for Covid-19 in A&E before he can be transferred to a ward (if necessary) depending on test results.
> 
> He's there for checks because of potentially serious reactions (again ) to chemo, not symptoms of Covid, but at least they're testing before admitting people, so hopefully he'll be safe on the ward.
> 
> He had to stay in just over a week last time, but at least I could visit. Prefer him to come home with me as he's extremely vulnerable, obviously. Bit scary tbh.
> 
> He didn't see much social distancing in the department waiting area though (so hope no spreaders in there).
> 
> Not much SD at the door either, particularly with the Security staff who have encountered many people as I've sat in car waiting.


{{hug}} and all paws crossed.


----------



## Magyarmum

Hope all is well and your husband will be home with you today.

Our very best wishes to you both from us all in Hungary


----------



## Happy Paws2

Hoping for good news this morning.


----------



## niamh123

Hope your hubby can come home today


----------



## Cully

@Lurcherlad , fingers, toes and paws crossed for today. Thinking of you.


----------



## SbanR

@Lurcherlad thinking of you both and sending good wishes your way


----------



## Boxer123

Hope all is well @Lurcherlad.


----------



## margy

Hope all goes well today @Lurcherlad x


----------



## Siskin

Hope your husband comes home today @Lurcherlad


----------



## Siskin

I’ve just had a phone call from the GP who sent out the official letter I had yesterday saying that I was vulnerable. He was of the opinion that this would add me to the lists that the supermarkets have about issuing priority slots to to vulnerable people. He had been told that the list is updated weekly and thought I would be notified by supermarkets that I am registered with. Hopefully this will all happen in due course.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Thinking of you Lurcherlad.

Siskin I hope you soon get a delivery slot. From what I can gather round here, people are logging onto the supermarket site, enter that they have a letter and that sorts it.


----------



## Siskin

Mum2Heidi said:


> Thinking of you Lurcherlad.
> 
> Siskin I hope you soon get a delivery slot. From what I can gather round here, people are logging onto the supermarket site, enter that they have a letter and that sorts it.


That's interesting, I can't see where to say that I have had a letter on either Tesco's or Waitrose. Sainsbury's just won't let me register as I'm not on their list. Haven't tried others


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I've just had a phone call from the GP who sent out the official letter I had yesterday saying that I was vulnerable. He was of the opinion that this would add me to the lists that the supermarkets have about issuing priority slots to to vulnerable people. He had been told that the list is updated weekly and thought I would be notified by supermarkets that I am registered with. Hopefully this will all happen in due course.


My letter was from the NHS saying they had identified me as vulnerable in it was a e-mail address to register with the government, when you have registered with them you should get a e-mail from your nearest supermarket and in it a direct link to there on-line shopping. It took about a week to sort it out.

see if you can try this to register.
www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Nor apparently do FB users seem capable of telling the difference. Had an excellent giggle this morning at a Trump supporter who shared a parody piece about him thinking it was serious :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


Similar thing happened. My dear relative posted what was actually a cartoon blaming it on the media for propagating fake news

More serious though she was telling all her friends not to get vaccinated against the virus (when one eventually comes out), because they'll only be lining the pockets of the large pharma companies


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Siskin said:


> That's interesting, I can't see where to say that I have had a letter on either Tesco's or Waitrose. Sainsbury's just won't let me register as I'm not on their list. Haven't tried others


Sounds like I was missing a step and Happy paws2 has it sussed.
Good luck with getting your slot.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> My letter was from the NHS saying they had identified me as vulnerable in it was a e-mail address to register with the government, when you have registered with them you should get a e-mail from your nearest supermarket and in it a direct link to there on-line shopping. It took about a week to sort it out.
> 
> see if you can try this to register.
> www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable


I filled in that form weeks ago and had a reply saying that they would check with my GP and NHS.

The doctor who I spoke to today said that they had been asked to check through their patients to see if there were any vulnerable patients who required shielding which is what activated the letter I had yesterday. Still no idea if this will mean my details will be passed on and I will end up on this magical list


----------



## Lurcherlad

Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


XXXX


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


Oh no! Try not to worry too much!

Virtual hugsxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> More serious though she was telling all her friends not to get vaccinated against the virus (when one eventually comes out), because they'll only be lining the pockets of the large pharma companies


 The evil part of me says let's just let that one play out.... Nothing like actual life consequences to prove a point 



Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


 What a worry  I'm sorry you guys are going through this.


----------



## Sacrechat

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


Sorry to hear this! Sending hugs to you both.


----------



## SbanR

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


Xxxxx


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


So sorry to hear this, I know this isn't what you wanted especially through chemo which I am guessing is postponed again, well on hold again.

Let's hope slow and steady wins the race to kick cancers butt! We are all rooting for him here to get through chemo.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Sorry to hear this, hoping he'll be well enough to come home very soon.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


Oh no so sorry to read this! Best wishes to both you and your OH, hopefully he will be home tomorrow x


----------



## Elles

Sorry to see this. Hope he’s back home soon.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> My letter was from the NHS saying they had identified me as vulnerable in it was a e-mail address to register with the government, when you have registered with them you should get a e-mail from your nearest supermarket and in it a direct link to there on-line shopping. It took about a week to sort it out.
> 
> see if you can try this to register.
> www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable


Practice nurse at my GP's has just phoned me (gosh I am popular today) and suggested that I try to see whether I can go through the gov website again and say that I have now been sent a letter from my GP to say I'm vulnerable and see if this will make any difference. So have just filled it in again and surprisingly it has let me do this and at least I can now say I have had a letter. Hopefully this will set things in motion.
I think part of the problem is that for instance my GP's don't really know whether the information they pass back about their vulnerable patients gets put on the magic list or not. This is such a new thing to have happened to this country that nobody is quite sure about the logistics of things like this.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Practice nurse at my GP's has just phoned me (gosh I am popular today) and suggested that I try to see whether I can go through the gov website again and say that I have now been sent a letter from my GP to say I'm vulnerable and see if this will make any difference. So have just filled it in again and surprisingly it has let me do this and at least I can now say I have had a letter. Hopefully this will set things in motion.
> I think part of the problem is that for instance my GP's don't really know whether the information they pass back about their vulnerable patients gets put on the magic list or not. This is such a new thing to have happened to this country that nobody is quite sure about the logistics of things like this.


Good luck, hope it helps!


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus
For once I can light up happy...
Just to add I am really light smoker , only the thin ones, packet per week...


----------



## cheekyscrip

@Lurcherlad my very best wishes of speedy recovery and lots of pf vibes.


----------



## lullabydream

cheekyscrip said:


> https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus
> For once I can light up happy...
> Just to add I am really light smoker , only the thin ones, packet per week...


I keep seeing this too...

Probably a double edged sword as smoking does damage the respiratory system. There is no denying that.


----------



## SusieRainbow

cheekyscrip said:


> https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus
> For once I can light up happy...
> Just to add I am really light smoker , only the thin ones, packet per week...


Well,I gave up 9 years ago but still take nicotine microtabs so hopefully covered !


----------



## cheekyscrip

possibly by blocking the receptors where the virus attaches itself.

Now France has to limit sales of the patches...

But as Trump said "interesting" and I prefer it to drinking Dettol on sunbed...


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> I keep seeing this too...
> 
> Probably a double edged sword as smoking does damage the respiratory system. There is no denying that.


As said in the article posted:
"While nicotine may protect those from the virus, smokers who have caught it often develop more serious symptoms because of the toxic effect of tobacco smoke on the lungs, they say."

Antioxidants in fruits and veggies also lessen the risk of contracting the virus. And vitamin D. And exercise... 
I find the article a little irresponsible frankly. Smoking increases your risk of so many other diseases and complications. Not to mention the effect on those you smoke around. That's right alongside of recommendations like Trump's. Yeah, disinfectants kill the virus, but consuming them is not advisable.

I think I'll stick to articles like this one:
https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/04/15/covid-19-exercise-may-help-prevent-deadly-complication/


----------



## niamh123

So sorry Hubby can't come home today this must be such a worrying time for you:Kiss


----------



## Lurcherlad

niamh123 said:


> So sorry Hubby can't come home today this must be such a worrying time for you:Kiss


We've been in isolation (with DS) for weeks now to protect him - so the last place I want him to be is in a hospital with covid wards.

Scarier than the chemo that put him there tbh.

Just got to hope he stays safe while he's there.

Everyone's positive vibes and well wishes are so appreciated - thanks everyone!


----------



## lullabydream

cheekyscrip said:


> View attachment 437955
> possibly by blocking the receptors where the virus attaches itself.
> 
> Now France has to limit sales of the patches...
> 
> But as Trump said "interesting" and I prefer it to drinking Dettol on sunbed...


There's a wider study too... It doesn't going in to smoking per se but it's a recent on that states in New York the majority who have got the virus were non smokers though the highest Co morbidity is high blood pressure and fourth is COPD, both can be looked at smoking relating illnesses. So we might never know if these people were ex smokers or not.

The sample at 500 isn't big enough, there was good evidence in the New York one but the biggest major flaw is that the majority of people were still in hospital at the end of the study. Maybe flaw is not what I should say, they found data that supported some studies from China, so maybe China have been giving some good valid research. They have good scientist just tarred by their government sadly.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> We've been in isolation (with DS) for weeks now to protect him - so the last place I want him to be is in a hospital with covid wards.
> 
> Scarier than the chemo that put him there tbh.
> 
> Just got to hope he stays safe while he's there.
> 
> Everyone's positive vibes and well wishes are so appreciated - thanks everyone!


I honestly am glad this pandemic wasn't here when I was going to A and E at least once a week. I definitely needed to go. I think the only good bit is people are avoiding A and E for minor things.


----------



## MilleD

cheekyscrip said:


> View attachment 437955
> possibly by blocking the receptors where the virus attaches itself.
> 
> Now France has to limit sales of the patches...
> 
> But as Trump said "interesting" and I prefer it to drinking Dettol on sunbed...


Is it because the receptors are knackered rather than there is some sort of immunity then?


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> I keep seeing this too...
> 
> Probably a double edged sword as smoking does damage the respiratory system. There is no denying that.


It could be as simple a fact as smokers are staying away from possible sources of the virus as they would consider themselves more vulnerable perhaps? So there are fewer cases among smokers simply because they are allowing themselves to be infected.


----------



## Boxer123

I had an ex who smoked a lot we were together 8 years I never knew him to catch a cold or flu. He was never ill. It was very annoying as he also drunk like a fish and ate poorly. (I’m not describing him well he was a lovely guy) I ate well, ran, didn’t smoke and still picked things up.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> I had an ex who smoked a lot we were together 8 years I never knew him to catch a cold or flu. He was never ill. It was very annoying as he also drunk like a fish and ate poorly. (I'm not describing him well he was a lovely guy) I ate well, ran, didn't smoke and still picked things up.


You would highly likely still be more healthy than him even when you were ill.


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> You would highly likely still be more healthy than him even when you were ill.


We always joked he didn't move fast enough to catch a cold.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> We always joked he didn't move fast enough to catch a cold.


----------



## MilleD

I see the UK hospital deaths is 633 today. So the 2 days low figures were the normal weekend delay. The trend is still downwards though.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


((HUGS)), Sorry love. Not the news you wanted.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I'm living in the south at the moment and I'm from up North which is where mum lives. I haven't been able to see her since Christmas, but we keep in contact daily. She is vulnerable and I've mentioned before that in September she caught pneumonia after having a cough and feeling drained. She had only recovered totally just before Christmas. 
Me, my sisters and mum all agreed to let each other know if we weren't well with this going on. Yesterday got a txt from mum saying shes ok now but 2 weeks ago she started developing a fever, headache and cough. It was a bit of a shock!

Mum tends to downplay things, so I know she must have felt rough because she didnt tell my sister for a week that she thinks shes had it. She just told her to stay away for a couple of weeks (my sister lives near so she goes in to do jobs mum needs help with but cant manage). She hasnt even told her friend who is a nurse incase she made her go to hospital.

Thankfully it must have been mild, and she says she ok now. But it made me think, past couple of weeks she didnt seem like her usual self, but I just put that down to her being in pain with her arthritis. Sorry about the rant, I know she didnt want to worry us but I wish she had said something at the time.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> It could be as simple a fact as smokers are staying away from possible sources of the virus as they would consider themselves more vulnerable perhaps? So there are fewer cases among smokers simply because they are allowing themselves to be infected.


I don't know, am sure a lot will be going out to get cigarettes, which will if not supermarkets going to small convenience type shops.. After popping in my local one this morning and seeing how one girl acted in the queue, picking up everything and looking at it, propping her self up against the shelves like a child, the children in the queue behaved better I would say more risk.. Then because there was a huge queue the shop assistant said can you do your lottery later as you pop in and out a couple of times a day, and there is a large queue it's not fair on people, after she had the shop assistant running ragged. Her attitude was yeah fine will do as I understand people are inconsiderate and won't wait. After she left shop assistant apologised saying she does it every time thinks everyone has all the time in the world.


----------



## lullabydream

HarlequinCat said:


> I'm living in the south at the moment and I'm from up North which is where mum lives. I haven't been able to see her since Christmas, but we keep in contact daily. She is vulnerable and I've mentioned before that in September she caught pneumonia after having a cough and feeling drained. She had only recovered totally just before Christmas.
> Me, my sisters and mum all agreed to let each other know if we weren't well with this going on. Yesterday got a txt from mum saying shes ok now but 2 weeks ago she started developing a fever, headache and cough. It was a bit of a shock!
> 
> Mum tends to downplay things, so I know she must have felt rough because she didnt tell my sister for a week that she thinks shes had it. She just told her to stay away for a couple of weeks (my sister lives near so she goes in to do jobs mum needs help with but cant manage). She hasnt even told her friend who is a nurse incase she made her go to hospital.
> 
> Thankfully it must have been mild, and she says she ok now. But it made me think, past couple of weeks she didnt seem like her usual self, but I just put that down to her being in pain with her arthritis. Sorry about the rant, I know she didnt want to worry us but I wish she had said something at the time.


Sorry to hear this...

I think that's often the thing Mums don't like us to worry.

Glad she's OK though, am sure she would let you know if it got really bad as am sure she would have approached someone if she needed help. I don't think you can ignore it if the symptoms get bad.


----------



## HarlequinCat

lullabydream said:


> Sorry to hear this...
> 
> I think that's often the thing Mums don't like us to worry.
> 
> Glad she's OK though, am sure she would let you know if it got really bad as am sure she would have approached someone if she needed help. I don't think you can ignore it if the symptoms get bad.


That's why I worry, when she had pneumonia it was her nurse friend who got a doctor to come. He said she should be in hospital and if she got worse to let him know. But shes stubborn and didnt want to leave her dog at home alone. She hates hospitals and will try and stay away as long as possible.

But yes, luckily shes ok now. And sister went around there yesterday and she was crafting with her


----------



## SbanR

HarlequinCat said:


> Sorry about the rant, I know she didnt want to worry us but I wish she had said something at the time.


As you say, she didn't want to worry you. There was nothing you could have done but worry.
Mum thinking of you. Besides it would have exhausted her more, allaying your fears.

She's better now


----------



## JoanneF

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like OH is being kept in another day, possibly two and strictly no visitors allowed in


Aw, that's a pity. Hope he is ok to come home tomorrow.


----------



## HarlequinCat

SbanR said:


> As you say, she didn't want to worry you. There was nothing you could have done but worry.
> Mum thinking of you. Besides it would have exhausted her more, allaying your fears.
> 
> She's better now


Oh I know that . It was the shock of getting a text out of the blue saying shes had it


----------



## DogLover1981

Dog tests positive for COVID-19 in North Carolina.

https://www.wmur.com/article/dog-te...-case-in-the-us-duke-researchers-say/32302599


----------



## cheekyscrip

MilleD said:


> It could be as simple a fact as smokers are staying away from possible sources of the virus as they would consider themselves more vulnerable perhaps? So there are fewer cases among smokers simply because they are allowing themselves to be infected.


Think not. Consider smokers often go outside to smoke, touch stuff then put cigarette in the mouth...
Maybe the virus prefers nice, clean lungs?
Bats don't smoke generally...

Seriously though anecdotal evidence is there and some studies , it is not impossible..
Nicotine is helping with Alzheimer...Parkinson's too.

Maybe Deterred by Tar?


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## Cully

cheekyscrip said:


> Think not. Consider smokers often go outside to smoke, touch stuff then put cigarette in the mouth...
> Maybe the virus prefers nice, clean lungs?
> Bats don't smoke generally...
> 
> Seriously though anecdotal evidence is there and some studies , it is not impossible..
> Nicotine is helping with Alzheimer...Parkinson's too.
> 
> Maybe Deterred by Tar?


Or maybe it's a load of promotional bullstuff by the tobacco companies!!


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> Or maybe it's a load of promotional bullstuff by the tobacco companies!!


I'd be very interested to see who funded the study


----------



## Nonnie

First person i know (sort of - not 'friend' know) has died. What the most depressing aspect of their death is, is that they were only given palliative care as they were deemed unworthy? unsuitable? for a ventilator as they had underlying health conditions. Basically, they didnt score high enough to be treated and potentially given a chance. I wonder how many other people this has happened to?


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> First person i know (sort of - not 'friend' know) has died. What the most depressing aspect of their death is, is that they were only given palliative care as they were deemed unworthy? unsuitable? for a ventilator as they had underlying health conditions. Basically, they didnt score high enough to be treated and potentially given a chance. I wonder how many other people this has happened to?


It's an awful thing, but doctors make these sorts of decisions every day with lots of different sorts of conditions. It's not limited to Covid-19.

Hope they RIP x


----------



## Psygon

O2.0 said:


> I'd be very interested to see who funded the study


This isn't saying who funded that study. But there was definitely something a little while ago about British American Tobacco developing a vaccine. Think they were using tobacco plants as they are fast growing. Must be 4 or 5 weeks ago I read about it...


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> It's an awful thing, but doctors make these sorts of decisions every day with lots of different sorts of conditions. It's not limited to Covid-19.
> 
> Hope they RIP x


Im well aware - but none of the health conditions they had were life threatening/terminal on their own - simply life limiting.

Horrible for all involved really.


----------



## Cully

Nonnie said:


> Im well aware - but none of the health conditions they had were life threatening/terminal on their own - simply life limiting.
> 
> Horrible for all involved really.


I think that's one of the reasons people are so terrified of going into hospital at the moment, especially those with pre existing conditions. But now the curve is flattening and the lack of respirators isn't so critical, those difficult decisions may not need to be made so often.
I really feel for those who make those decisions. It must be awful to hear that news.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Nonnie said:


> First person i know (sort of - not 'friend' know) has died. What the most depressing aspect of their death is, is that they were only given palliative care as they were deemed unworthy? unsuitable? for a ventilator as they had underlying health conditions. Basically, they didnt score high enough to be treated and potentially given a chance. I wonder how many other people this has happened to?


My MIL was asked to sign a DNR when she was admitted a couple of weeks ago with another mini stroke.

She's 85, had a number of heart attacks, several mini strokes, breast cancer twice (currently classed as terminal but managed with drugs for many years), a gallbladder full of stones (inoperable because of the risk), widespread arthritis .... think that's everything.

I don't believe she was considered unworthy, but the chance of a full recovery would be very slim yet the chances of being left in a terrible state if she was resuscitated we're high.

Doctors make these decisions all the time, not just because of the current situation.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I think that's one of the reasons people are so terrified of going into hospital at the moment, especially those with pre existing conditions. But now the curve is flattening and the lack of respirators isn't so critical, those difficult decisions may not need to be made so often.
> I really feel for those who make those decisions. It must be awful to hear that news.


There are no decisions being made based on the lack of equipment by all accounts. It's based on the individuals likelihood for recovery. As with any illness and treatment protocol.


----------



## MilleD

A little light relief, apologies if someone has already posted:

Lockdown lingo - are you fully conversant with the new terminology?

*Coronacoaster*
The ups and downs of your mood during the pandemic. You're loving lockdown one minute but suddenly weepy with anxiety the next. It truly is "an emotional coronacoaster".
*
Quarantinis*
Experimental cocktails mixed from whatever random ingredients you have left in the house. The boozy equivalent of a store cupboard supper. Southern Comfort and Ribena quarantini with a glacé cherry garnish, anyone? These are sipped at "locktail hour", ie. wine o'clock during lockdown, which seems to be creeping earlier with each passing week.
*
Blue Skype thinking*
A work brainstorming session which takes place over a videoconferencing app. Such meetings might also be termed a "Zoomposium". Naturally, they are to be avoided if at all possible.
*
Le Creuset wrist*
It's the new "avocado hand" - an aching arm after taking one's best saucepan outside to bang during the weekly 'Clap For Carers.' It might be heavy but you're keen to impress the neighbours with your high-quality kitchenware.
*
Coronials*
As opposed to millennials, this refers to the future generation of babies conceived or born during coronavirus quarantine. They might also become known as "Generation C" or, more spookily, "Children of the Quarn".
*
Furlough Merlot*
Wine consumed in an attempt to relieve the frustration of not working. Also known as "bored-eaux" or "cabernet tedium".
*
Coronadose*
An overdose of bad news from consuming too much media during a time of crisis. Can result in a panicdemic.
*
The elephant in the Zoom*
The glaring issue during a videoconferencing call that nobody feels able to mention. E.g. one participant has dramatically put on weight, suddenly sprouted terrible facial hair or has a worryingly messy house visible in the background.
*
Quentin Quarantino*
An attention-seeker using their time in lockdown to make amateur films which they're convinced are funnier and cleverer than they actually are.
*
Covidiot or Wuhan-ker*
One who ignores public health advice or behaves with reckless disregard for the safety of others can be said to display "covidiocy" or be "covidiotic". Also called a "lockclown" or even a "Wuhan-ker".
*
Goutbreak*
The sudden fear that you've consumed so much wine, cheese, home-made cake and Easter chocolate in lockdown that your ankles are swelling up like a medieval king's.
*
Antisocial distancing*
Using health precautions as an excuse for snubbing neighbours and generally ignoring people you find irritating.
*
Coughin' dodger*
Someone so alarmed by an innocuous splutter or throat-clear that they back away in terror.
*
Mask-ara*
Extra make-up applied to "make one's eyes pop" before venturing out in public wearing a face mask.
*
Covid-10*
The 10lbs in weight that we're all gaining from comfort-eating and comfort-drinking. Also known as "fattening the curve".

…and finally, finally: One sentence to sum up 2020, so far: At one point this week, 1 loo roll was worth more than a barrel of crude oil!


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> A little light relief, apologies if someone has already posted:
> 
> Lockdown lingo - are you fully conversant with the new terminology?
> 
> *Coronacoaster*
> The ups and downs of your mood during the pandemic. You're loving lockdown one minute but suddenly weepy with anxiety the next. It truly is "an emotional coronacoaster".
> *
> Quarantinis*
> Experimental cocktails mixed from whatever random ingredients you have left in the house. The boozy equivalent of a store cupboard supper. Southern Comfort and Ribena quarantini with a glacé cherry garnish, anyone? These are sipped at "locktail hour", ie. wine o'clock during lockdown, which seems to be creeping earlier with each passing week.
> *
> Blue Skype thinking*
> A work brainstorming session which takes place over a videoconferencing app. Such meetings might also be termed a "Zoomposium". Naturally, they are to be avoided if at all possible.
> *
> Le Creuset wrist*
> It's the new "avocado hand" - an aching arm after taking one's best saucepan outside to bang during the weekly 'Clap For Carers.' It might be heavy but you're keen to impress the neighbours with your high-quality kitchenware.
> *
> Coronials*
> As opposed to millennials, this refers to the future generation of babies conceived or born during coronavirus quarantine. They might also become known as "Generation C" or, more spookily, "Children of the Quarn".
> *
> Furlough Merlot*
> Wine consumed in an attempt to relieve the frustration of not working. Also known as "bored-eaux" or "cabernet tedium".
> *
> Coronadose*
> An overdose of bad news from consuming too much media during a time of crisis. Can result in a panicdemic.
> *
> The elephant in the Zoom*
> The glaring issue during a videoconferencing call that nobody feels able to mention. E.g. one participant has dramatically put on weight, suddenly sprouted terrible facial hair or has a worryingly messy house visible in the background.
> *
> Quentin Quarantino*
> An attention-seeker using their time in lockdown to make amateur films which they're convinced are funnier and cleverer than they actually are.
> *
> Covidiot or Wuhan-ker*
> One who ignores public health advice or behaves with reckless disregard for the safety of others can be said to display "covidiocy" or be "covidiotic". Also called a "lockclown" or even a "Wuhan-ker".
> *
> Goutbreak*
> The sudden fear that you've consumed so much wine, cheese, home-made cake and Easter chocolate in lockdown that your ankles are swelling up like a medieval king's.
> *
> Antisocial distancing*
> Using health precautions as an excuse for snubbing neighbours and generally ignoring people you find irritating.
> *
> Coughin' dodger*
> Someone so alarmed by an innocuous splutter or throat-clear that they back away in terror.
> *
> Mask-ara*
> Extra make-up applied to "make one's eyes pop" before venturing out in public wearing a face mask.
> *
> Covid-10*
> The 10lbs in weight that we're all gaining from comfort-eating and comfort-drinking. Also known as "fattening the curve".
> 
> …and finally, finally: One sentence to sum up 2020, so far: At one point this week, 1 loo roll was worth more than a barrel of crude oil!


Love it!


----------



## MollySmith

Photo below shows the death rate with care homes included from today’s briefing.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Photo below shows the death rate with care homes included from today's briefing.


Gosh, that's more then Spain and nearly as many as Italy


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Gosh, that's more then Spain and nearly as many as Italy


Yes it is. I didn't want to panic people so kept it as a small photo, but yes, it is. I am glad, for the respect and memory of care home workers and those who have passed, that this is now being recorded. We aren't meant to discuss politics but I will simply say that PMQ was again very good. Direct, to the point and followed up on last week so there feels like accountability.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Yes it is. I didn't want to panic people so kept it as a small photo, but yes, it is. I am glad, for the respect and memory of care home workers and those who have passed, that this is now being recorded. We aren't meant to discuss politics but I will simply say that PMQ was again very good. Direct, to the point and followed up on last week so there feels like accountability.


I do believe someone said a while back that our death rate was likely to be the highest in Europe. So very sad


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Gosh, that's more then Spain and nearly as many as Italy


They did say in todays briefing, its crude figures for both Spain and Italy as they haven't got figures for care homes as the UK have. So we can't compare with other countries as such.

The worry is the rising increase in Germany after lifting their lockdown though. Which the government do not want to happen here


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> I do believe someone said a while back that our death rate was likely to be the highest in Europe. So very sad


Yes, there was mention wasn't there. At the time I hoped it would not be true but I fear it will be. Friends in Spain have been really struggling, one good friend lives completely alone and her mental health hasn't been good, she was about to return to the UK but she feels somewhat relieved to be where she was,

It's incredible- in the worst possible way and I've yet to comprehend how badly it's happened and why.


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> They did say in todays briefing, its crude figures for both Spain and Italy as they haven't got figures for care homes as the UK have. So we can't compare with other countries as such.
> 
> The worry is the rising increase in Germany after lifting their lockdown though. Which the government do not want to happen here


Yes, we have family there and we are worried for them. I just can't see lockdown ending until we have a vaccine. The talk of lifting lockdown this week fills me with dread. Yesterday was the first day in a few days where I felt incredibly anxious. I've managed to keep it under control for a bit.


----------



## O2.0

There are two idiot doctors making the rounds in social media saying that social isolation makes the immune system 'drop' - their words. Basically saying that all this social isolation and cleaning off groceries is going to make our immune systems less active so that by the time we end up back in society we're all going to get sick and die. Okay, I exaggerated the last part, but good grief....
I've seen 3 shares so far on FB, reported every one, and I'm also reporting the video on youtube. I have next to zero medical training and even I know that immune systems don't stop working just because you're not exposed to a pathogen. It's so incredibly frustrating to see all this misinformation and people clinging to it because it just sounds so much better to them than the reality. Makes me angry


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Yes, we have family there and we are worried for them. I just can't see lockdown ending until we have a vaccine. The talk of lifting lockdown this week fills me with dread. Yesterday was the first day in a few days where I felt incredibly anxious. I've managed to keep it under control for a bit.


There's nothing to stop you (or any individual) maintaining a sensible protocol even if lockdown is lifted. I don't think many will be rushing into crowded situations or not bothering to take some precautions.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> It's so incredibly frustrating to see all this misinformation and people clinging to it because it just sounds so much better to them than the reality.


It's understandable though. The reality is too difficult for many to process.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> Yes, we have family there and we are worried for them. I just can't see lockdown ending until we have a vaccine. The talk of lifting lockdown this week fills me with dread. Yesterday was the first day in a few days where I felt incredibly anxious. I've managed to keep it under control for a bit.


Who said the lockdown will lift this week? The only people wanting this seems to be the media. The government are adamant that its not to be lifted and keep saying so on every daily briefing.

Today they have emphasised the fact that people are driving more and are getting complacent and it's no time to do so. So I am sure the media will have the people getting stopped by police stories again to fill their pages; stories of stupidity, and those of the police being too strict as usual.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Cully said:


> Or maybe it's a load of promotional bullstuff by the tobacco companies!!


Don't burst my happy bubble!!!
I now feel guiltless!!!


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> Who said the lockdown will lift this week? The only people wanting this seems to be the media. The government are adamant that its not to be lifted and keep saying so on every daily briefing.
> 
> Today they have emphasised the fact that people are driving more and are getting complacent and it's no time to do so. So I am sure the media will have the people getting stopped by police stories again to fill their pages; stories of stupidity, and those of the police being too strict as usual.


Not that it would lift this week but making plans for a lift next month or June. I didn't phrase that post very well! But I agree, any talk feels like those who are already less careful will become complacent and put others in danger.


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...tal-mistake/&usg=AOvVaw04toY-LxdSaBaWcqfqxp04

I hope this will work for Sweden. The life there has changed but relatively less.
They think long term. But we will see if they can sustain it..,


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Not that it would lift this week but making plans for a lift next month or June. I didn't phrase that post very well! But I agree, any talk feels like those who are already less careful will become complacent and put others in danger.


You can only organise your own life as you are most comfortable and you can do so. There are all sorts of things others do which I choose not to and the other way round. It is scary but it's better to realise you do have control, you don't have to put yourself at great risk just because the government has eased restrictions. The current situation won't be replaced by a law requiring you to go to a crowded pub every night.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> There are two idiot doctors making the rounds in social media saying that social isolation makes the immune system 'drop' - their words. Basically saying that all this social isolation and cleaning off groceries is going to make our immune systems less active so that by the time we end up back in society we're all going to get sick and die. Okay, I exaggerated the last part, but good grief....
> I've seen 3 shares so far on FB, reported every one, and I'm also reporting the video on youtube. I have next to zero medical training and even I know that immune systems don't stop working just because you're not exposed to a pathogen. It's so incredibly frustrating to see all this misinformation and people clinging to it because it just sounds so much better to them than the reality. Makes me angry


More conspiracy theories on my FB today, most notably "The End of the World as We Know It. The Fall of The Cabal" and in 6 episodes on Youtube! Covers everything under the sun from aliens to Clinton to Epstein to half the Royal Families of Europe and the QAnon

Totally beyond my comprehension how people can believe such rubbish.

If anyone's interested .....

http://decentralizeverything.com/th...-it-the-fall-of-the-cabal-by-janet-ossebaard/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon


----------



## cheekyscrip

MollySmith said:


> Yes, there was mention wasn't there. At the time I hoped it would not be true but I fear it will be. Friends in Spain have been really struggling, one good friend lives completely alone and her mental health hasn't been good, she was about to return to the UK but she feels somewhat relieved to be where she was,
> 
> It's incredible- in the worst possible way and I've yet to comprehend how badly it's happened and why.


Spain will start gradually lifting lockdown from 11 May all being well. They hope to be back to " new normal " by the end of June. Already kids allowed to have a walk outside.


----------



## O2.0

In other news, our state just got graded at an F for social distancing. Yet strangely every state that borders us have far more cases, by significant margins. Perhaps we suck at social distancing because the reality hasn't hit yet, or perhaps we're just more rural and the algorithm is based on travel, and for us travel is going to be greater just because of the general layout of the land.

Then some jerk-face is on FB complaining about us not wearing masks when we pack food for distribution. It's the same core group that has been packing since they closed schools mid March. This person showed up today to help, much appreciated, but don't show up 6 weeks in and then immediately go out in public bitching about how we do things. If you're not comfortable, go home. We've managed fine so far without you. 
Sorry that sounded way bitchier than I meant for it to. But yeah...



Magyarmum said:


> More conspiracy theories on my FB today, most notably "The End of the World as We Know It. The Fall of The Cabal" and in 6 episodes on Youtube! Covers everything under the sun from aliens to Clinton to Epstein to half the Royal Families of Europe and the QAnon
> 
> Totally beyond my comprehension how people can believe such rubbish.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/t...e8LzdUv8nTppfCXi15REB-spCWGTWtrOaVxUqhFsjz-LY
I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but have it queued up.


----------



## lullabydream

Wait am I missing something @O2.0 they are grading states on social distancing in the US? That just sounds silly!

My county has low numbers and it's large.. Obviously nothing in comparison as States in America. Its quite worrying here that its not hit so to speak. My friend has lost her nan who lives down South last week, her Uncles in hospital now and most of her family have or had Covid-19 so although she's not going out. Stories like this brings it home to me how nasty it is and can be and how easy it can spread. Some of her family were looking after her nan. So it's quite obvious they got it, even with taking precautions but her other half of her family were not and only going shopping.


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> Wait am I missing something @O2.0 they are grading states on social distancing in the US? That just sounds silly!


Not the government, no, but this site:
https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard

From what I can tell it's based on pinging locations based on cell-phone tower usage and comparing it to data from before the outbreak. 
Despite our poor social distancing though, we apparently have some of the lowest Covid-19 rates in the nation. Don't know if it's because of lack of testing (though our hospitals aren't overwhelmed, elective procedures like knee replacement still happening). I really don't know.

The US is really weird in that way. New York city is completely overwhelmed, Meanwhile here, we've had 38 cases and one death in the entire county of 67,500 residents. I know some of that is lack of testing, but even counting hospitalizations, that's a pretty low number. It's hard to change your behavior when you don't see or hear of anyone sick near you.


----------



## Siskin

Gloucestershire where I live has one of the highest rates of covid 19 infections and deaths in the West Country. The reason for that can be solely pointed to having the Cheltenham races just before lockdown was introduced. All sorts of other sports were stopped, but the flipping gold cup had to go ahead. Frankly this was solely down to money. 
People came into Cheltenham from all over the country and Ireland and many later came down with the virus and passed it around the area. A popular Prestbury pub owner died from contracting the virus during this time


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> Not the government, no, but this site:
> https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard
> 
> From what I can tell it's based on pinging locations based on cell-phone tower usage and comparing it to data from before the outbreak.
> Despite our poor social distancing though, we apparently have some of the lowest Covid-19 rates in the nation. Don't know if it's because of lack of testing (though our hospitals aren't overwhelmed, elective procedures like knee replacement still happening). I really don't know.
> 
> The US is really weird in that way. New York city is completely overwhelmed, Meanwhile here, we've had 38 cases and one death in the entire county of 67,500 residents. I know some of that is lack of testing, but even counting hospitalizations, that's a pretty low number. It's hard to change your behavior when you don't see or hear of anyone sick near you.


It's pretty weird to score it though..

I like this website for information, well statistics. Mmmm.. More of a study really. I think it's for the USA as well. 
https://covid.joinzoe.com/
OK its more a study thingy but has data, and you can track how you feel, but the website itself you can play about with.

Am hoping I never have to tick am not feeling well box.

Am lucky due to my son's job we all can get tested if we get symptoms. Then yesterday it was announced if my husband feels unwell because he can't work from home, he can tested too. That's if there are appointments available or home testing kits available when we request them.


----------



## MollySmith

A bit about global comparisons that I thought was really useful.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> A bit about global comparisons that I thought was really useful.
> 
> View attachment 438101


Which has been said from the very beginning to be honest... Everything needs looked at, and it will but the most important data collection comes when there is no Covid-19


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/t...e8LzdUv8nTppfCXi15REB-spCWGTWtrOaVxUqhFsjz-LY
> I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but have it queued up.


Interesting thank you! Like you I'll listen to it when I have the time and feel like a good laugh a the stupidity of people.

I really think I've heard it all now! .

According to my dear relative the virus was created to reduce the population.

The theory goes something like this. Over a period of several years the elderly have been given flu shots which are designed to break down the immunity system. .The "whoever's" behind this dastardly plot, then releases the virus which kills off all the over 65 years old who've had flu shots.

Clever in't it?


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Which has been said from the very beginning to be honest... Everything needs looked at, and it will but the most important data collection comes when there is no Covid-19


One of the folks on the daily briefing said that it would be like comparing apples and pears.

I hoped he meant it wasn't quite as disparate as apples and oranges rather than he just got the word slightly wrong


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> A bit about global comparisons that I thought was really useful.
> 
> View attachment 438101


This is the daily information we're given in Hungary together a list of the sex, age and underlying medical condition each of the deceased suffered from. Included in those figures are people living in Care Homes.










Also one which shows how many confirmed cases there are in each county.


----------



## MilleD

Another little light relief. Not sure if the link will work...

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=220717009368692


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Another little light relief. Not sure if the link will work...
> 
> www.facebook.com/watch/?v=220717009368692


The last song made cry.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> The last song made cry.


Me too a little bit. But don't tell anyone :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Interesting thank you! Like you I'll listen to it when I have the time and feel like a good laugh a the stupidity of people.
> 
> I really think I've heard it all now! .
> 
> According to my dear relative the virus was created to reduce the population.
> 
> The theory goes something like this. Over a period of several years the elderly have been given flu shots which are designed to break down the immunity system. .The "whoever's" behind this dastardly plot, then releases the virus which kills off all the over 65 years old who've had flu shots.
> 
> Clever in't it?


Please continue to post about your crazy American in-law's conspiracy theories:Hilarious


----------



## rona

Just been talking to neighbour who's a midwife, she knows that there is going to be a huge surge in pregnancies come the end of the year,into early next...........a mini baby boom


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Please continue to post about your crazy American in-law's conspiracy theories:Hilarious


Will do! It's fast become the highlight of my day along with potty Donny's weird ramblings!


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Just been talking to neighbour who's a midwife, she knows that there is going to be a huge surge in pregnancies come the end of the year,into early next...........a mini baby boom


Definitely.. Even poundland said their pregnancy tests their was an increase by so much percentage of sales of their pregnancy test. Must have been quite high to make news, but then again its media maybe not.. I think @Mrs Funkin whose also a midwife said this a while ago


----------



## Magyarmum

The good news is that from Monday, Hungary will be relaxing the lock down restrictions in all parts of the country with the exception of Budapest and the surrounding districts. However, this is with the proviso that everyone wears masks and obeys a 1.5 metre distance.

The 9 am to noon OAP's only shopping will remain in place until further notice,which pleases me as it's rather pleasant to have the supermarket to myself I'm all equipped to go out in public as I was given some more reusable masks and 500 ml of hand sanitiser. As I already have some pale blue masks and pink and white ones and now dark blue ones I can co-ordinate them with my outfits!

Well why not, one has to keep up standards doesn't one?

I'm going to give it another two weeks for all the mad ones who don't obey rules to settle down, before venturing into the big city and then only to take the Schnauzer boys to training - I'm not sure who needs the training more - me or them There are plenty of large spaces we can go to train where we're unlikely to meet many people. And the big test will come when I have to go into the city centre to take my new 'poota to be set up, but don't see me doing that in the near future ...... if ever, the way things are at the moment!

https://boon.hu/orszag-vilag/az-uj-...aJl_OfE0NglYWgt2yFDy5EJN9Oubjic7IF3LPhLTcch5Y

*Here are the details of the new protection measures (video)*


----------



## Mrs Funkin

lullabydream said:


> Definitely.. Even poundland said their pregnancy tests their was an increase by so much percentage of sales of their pregnancy test. Must have been quite high to make news, but then again its media maybe not.. I think @Mrs Funkin whose also a midwife said this a while ago


Yes. We are already seeing an increase in bookings. Save us! Use contraception unless you are actually planning on having a baby. Please!


----------



## Boxer123

rona said:


> Just been talking to neighbour who's a midwife, she knows that there is going to be a huge surge in pregnancies come the end of the year,into early next...........a mini baby boom


My sister is expecting very exciting but also not great timing.


----------



## lullabydream

Boxer123 said:


> My sister is expecting very exciting but also not great timing.


Does that mean Sox and Loki are going to be cousins????


----------



## Boxer123

lullabydream said:


> Does that mean Sox and Loki are going to be cousins????


she already has one and loves talking to them on face time but not so much in person lol.


----------



## lullabydream

Boxer123 said:


> she already has one and loves talking to them on face time but not so much in person lol.


My ickle nephew whose nearly two thinks my dogs are hilarious.. I got the same reaction from a toddler on a walk the other week. Am starting to get a complex I must have weird looking dogs!


----------



## Boxer123

lullabydream said:


> My ickle nephew whose nearly two thinks my dogs are hilarious.. I got the same reaction from a toddler on a walk the other week. Am starting to get a complex I must have weird looking dogs!


She always tells Loki to be good it falls on deaf ears.


----------



## ForestWomble

MilleD said:


> Another little light relief. Not sure if the link will work...
> 
> www.facebook.com/watch/?v=220717009368692


Thank you for sharing that, I enjoyed it but it also sent tears to my eyes.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yes. We are already seeing an increase in bookings. Save us! Use contraception unless you are actually planning on having a baby. Please!


Not a good world to be bringing new life into at the moment. Human or animal.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Another little light relief. Not sure if the link will work...
> 
> www.facebook.com/watch/?v=220717009368692


How stunning is that 

Thanks for the link


----------



## havoc

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yes. We are already seeing an increase in bookings. Save us! Use contraception unless you are actually planning on having a baby. Please!


So if we get on top of the virus the new mantra will be 'sleep separately, protect the NHS'


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> So if we get on top of the virus the new mantra will be 'sleep separately, protect the NHS'


 Ha ha


----------



## Boxer123

Can some please explain because I don’t understand how we have moved past the peak and can talk about re opening. We are still losing 600 a day. Surely when we relax we will see another spike.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I don't think we really will be talking about reopening really @Boxer123, I suspect it will be with long term social distancing restrictions to try to prevent the second spike. I almost wonder if it will be certain types of shops that will be allowed to open (I have no idea what though!), last to open will be pubs maybe? Goodness knows really.

@havoc don't have to sleep separately - just use a condom  Protect yourself, doctors, midwives and sexual health clinic nurses, hehe.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I don't think we really will be talking about reopening really @Boxer123, I suspect it will be with long term social distancing restrictions to try to prevent the second spike. I almost wonder if it will be certain types of shops that will be allowed to open (I have no idea what though!), last to open will be pubs maybe? Goodness knows really.
> 
> @havoc don't have to sleep separately - just use a condom  Protect yourself, doctors, midwives and sexual health clinic nurses, hehe.


Ha ha take note @havoc

That makes sense I won't be going near a shop for some time. It just doesn't seem very under control in the UK.


----------



## havoc

Mrs Funkin said:


> @havoc don't have to sleep separately - just use a condom


I really love the idea of Boris adding 'nipping out for condoms' onto his list of essentials. Oh the irony


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> Ha ha take note @havoc


I love you all - I'm at least 25 years past the need but thank you SO much for thinking otherwise


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Can you imagine  I think it might count as "medical" if you get them from the Sexual Health Clinic  

(Sorry, I'm not being flippant, just slightly light-hearted)


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Can you imagine  I think it might count as "medical" if you get them from the Sexual Health Clinic
> 
> (Sorry, I'm not being flippant, just slightly light-hearted)


We need light hearted at the moment.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Can some please explain because I don't understand how we have moved past the peak and can talk about re opening. We are still losing 600 a day. Surely when we relax we will see another spike.


Perhaps this article might help to explain. It's not the number of people who die that determine whether the peak's been reached, but the number of new cases. The new cases should be on the decline for at least 14 days before the country is re-opened.

I don't know whether I can find it but Hungary has a chart which shows the decline in numbers very well and it's clear to see why some parts of the country will opening up next Monday.

https://khn.org/news/its-not-over-until-its-over-5-things-to-know-about-hitting-the-covid-19-peak/

*'It's Not Over Until It's Over': 5 Things To Know About Hitting The COVID-19 Peak*


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> Can you imagine  I think it might count as "medical" if you get them from the Sexual Health Clinic
> 
> (Sorry, I'm not being flippant, just slightly light-hearted)


i was quite shocked when my youngest told me that, now hes 25, he can no longer access 'free' condoms from the sexual health clinic
there was no age limit when i was young enough to need them, just an amount limit, 16 per month


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps this article might help to explain. It's not the number of people who die that determine whether the peak's been reached, but the number of new cases. The new cases should be on the decline for at least 14 days before the country is re-opened.
> 
> I don't know whether I can find it but Hungary has a chart which shows the decline in numbers very well and it's clear to see why some parts of the country will opening up next Monday.
> 
> https://khn.org/news/its-not-over-until-its-over-5-things-to-know-about-hitting-the-covid-19-peak/
> 
> *'It's Not Over Until It's Over': 5 Things To Know About Hitting The COVID-19 Peak*


Thank you that makes sense.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> So if we get on top of the virus the new mantra will be 'sleep separately, protect the NHS'


The sleeping isn't the problem....


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> The sleeping isn't the problem....


I don't think the bed is either...

I'll get my coat...


----------



## Dave S

Great news just got my results and I am clear.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> The sleeping isn't the problem....


Other slogans are available - but I'd be banned


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> The good news is that from Monday, Hungary will be relaxing the lock down restrictions in all parts of the country with the exception of Budapest and the surrounding districts. However, this is with the proviso that everyone wears masks and obeys a 1.5 metre distance.
> 
> The 9 am to noon OAP's only shopping will remain in place until further notice,which pleases me as it's rather pleasant to have the supermarket to myself I'm all equipped to go out in public as I was given some more reusable masks and 500 ml of hand sanitiser. As I already have some pale blue masks and pink and white ones and now dark blue ones I can co-ordinate them with my outfits!
> 
> Well why not, one has to keep up standards doesn't one?
> 
> I'm going to give it another two weeks for all the mad ones who don't obey rules to settle down, before venturing into the big city and then only to take the Schnauzer boys to training - I'm not sure who needs the training more - me or them There are plenty of large spaces we can go to train where we're unlikely to meet many people. And the big test will come when I have to go into the city centre to take my new 'poota to be set up, but don't see me doing that in the near future ...... if ever, the way things are at the moment!
> 
> https://boon.hu/orszag-vilag/az-uj-...aJl_OfE0NglYWgt2yFDy5EJN9Oubjic7IF3LPhLTcch5Y
> 
> *Here are the details of the new protection measures (video)*


Will your dogs be able to understand you through the mask?
And once they do, will they have to learn to understand you without a mask once restrictions are relaxed even more and you can

Oops, finger slipped. Once you can go about without a mask.


----------



## Bisbow

Dave S said:


> Great news just got my results and I am clear.
> View attachment 438171


Congratulations, very pleased for you


----------



## rona

Bisbow said:


> Congratulations, very pleased for you


Read the rest of the sheet


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Read the rest of the sheet


Oh Dear!


----------



## Bisbow

Oh dear
Missed that still half asleep


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Not a good world to be bringing new life into at the moment. Human or animal.


It will get better :Kiss


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> It will get better :Kiss


So long as it's left alone, and stop picking at it:Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> So long as it's left alone, and stop picking at it:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Will your dogs be able to understand you through the mask?
> And once they do, will they have to learn to understand you without a mask once restrictions are relaxed even more and you can
> 
> Oops, finger slipped. Once you can go about without a mask.


A mask doesn't muffle your voice and the dogs can still understand what you're saying. The only trouble is that the part of your face that's covered by the mask gets hot so it's quite a relief when you can remove it.

Gwylim didn't bat an eyelid at my wearing a mask but that's probably because at 6 years old he's used to my peculiar ways. Grisha who's only 2 had to jump up on me and peered at my face for quite a time before he was satisfied the person behind the mask was really his mum!


----------



## Magyarmum

So poignant ..................




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=906191466460834


----------



## Jaf

Spain. Tomorrow, Saturday, I’m allowed to go out for walks, and with 1 other person from my house. Has to be within 1km of house. Because there’s less than 5,000 people here there’s no time times. In town it’s only certain hours.

1km wouldn’t even get me to the bins.

Hopefully it won’t cause a rise in cases.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Hurrah to being able to go out for a walk though, Jaf. Enjoy


----------



## havoc

Jaf said:


> Spain. Tomorrow, Saturday, I'm allowed to go out for walks, and with 1 other person from my house. Has to be within 1km of house. Because there's less than 5,000 people here there's no time times. In town it's only certain hours.
> 
> 1km wouldn't even get me to the bins.
> 
> Hopefully it won't cause a rise in cases.


Aren't you allowed to 'exercise' further as long as you stay within your own municipality? It is possible to jog very slowly, I know because I am that useless runner


----------



## MollySmith

Jaf said:


> Spain. Tomorrow, Saturday, I'm allowed to go out for walks, and with 1 other person from my house. Has to be within 1km of house. Because there's less than 5,000 people here there's no time times. In town it's only certain hours.
> 
> 1km wouldn't even get me to the bins.
> 
> Hopefully it won't cause a rise in cases.


It's interesting (and a bit alarming) to see your post lockdown rules are more stringent than the UK lockdown ones have ever been. Stay safe.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> It's interesting (and a bit alarming) to see your post lockdown rules are more stringent than the UK lockdown ones have ever been. Stay safe.


It's going to be interesting in time to see how effective it's all been. There have to be reasons why some countries were so badly affected while others have fared better with fewer restrictions.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> It's interesting (and a bit alarming) to see your post lockdown rules are more stringent than the UK lockdown ones have ever been. Stay safe.


The lock down in Hungary whilst it hasn't been as stringent as Spain has nevertheless been far more strict than in the UK.

Over 65's were told to stay at home and only allowed to do their grocery shopping between the hours of 9 am to 12 noon, and the wearing of masks in public places is compulsory.. Some 10,000 people are under official quarantine which means their movements are monitored either by the Red Cross or the police and if they leave their homes they can be fined. Several towns close every weekend and only residents allowed to enter including my nearest city which if I'd tried to drive there I'd have been turned back by the police at one of the road blocks.

From Monday onward some of the restrictions have.been lifted everywhere apart from Budapest and the surrounding districts. Coffee shops and restaurants with outside eating areas can open for customers and some public places like the zoos have also been opened but with the warning that unless everyone wears masks and practices social distancing, they'll be closed down again.

Hungary officially went into lock down on March 27th which was after the UK, but the main difference was that in Hungary the Mayors and police were given the authority to make sure the rules were obeyed. Admittedly although Hungary only has a population of under 10 million, the number of cases (3000 to date) and 325 deaths from Covid-19 has been low.

.


----------



## Jaf

QUOTE="havoc, post: 1065607757, member: 13592"]Aren't you allowed to 'exercise' further as long as you stay within your own municipality? It is possible to jog very slowly, I know because I am that useless runner [/QUOTE]

Yes you're correct, exercise doesn't seem to be as limited. It's 12km to the village so theoretically that's allowed but I'm sure the police would be upset.

I got the walking with another person a bit wrong, it's supposed to be a caregiver but they have to stay 2metres apart. Tricky when you're assisting someone!


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> The lock down in Hungary whilst it hasn't been as stringent as Spain has nevertheless been far more strict than in the UK.
> 
> Over 65's were told to stay at home and only allowed to do their grocery shopping between the hours of 9 am to 12 noon, and the wearing of masks in public places is compulsory.. Some 10,000 people are under official quarantine which means their movements are monitored either by the Red Cross or the police and if they leave their homes they can be fined. Several towns close every weekend and only residents allowed to enter including my nearest city which if I'd tried to drive there I'd have been turned back by the police at one of the road blocks.
> 
> From Monday onward some of the restrictions have.been lifted everywhere apart from Budapest and the surrounding districts. Coffee shops and restaurants with outside eating areas can open for customers and some public places like the zoos have also been opened but with the warning that unless everyone wears masks and practices social distancing, they'll be closed down again.
> 
> Hungary officially went into lock down on March 27th which was after the UK, but the main difference was that in Hungary the Mayors and police were given the authority to make sure the rules were obeyed. Admittedly although Hungary only has a population of under 10 million, the number of cases (3000 to date) and 325 deaths from Covid-19 has been low.
> 
> .


Wow. I don't think they could do the really strict lockdowns in the U.K. They've barely been able to keep order with the lockdown we do have. Boris initially wanted the Swedish route I think, but that was when people thought it was a fun holiday and went to the beach, instead of following guidelines. I admit, I wouldn't want to follow really strict rules, unless I was at risk of being shot, or arrested. The curve was flattened, the nhs staff had time to coordinate dance parties, which they wouldn't if they were short of ppe and had bodies piling up in the street. I think we're getting ready to ease the lockdown too.


----------



## havoc

Elles said:


> They've barely been able to keep order with the lockdown we do have


Do you really believe that? The vast majority of what I've seen or read shows most people by far abiding by the restrictions, if anything, making up much stricter ones than actually exist. Of course, the media has concentrated on the very few who have flagrantly flouted them because that's worth reporting. Of those who have some have been repeat offenders. Around nine thousand fixed penalty notices out of a population of 60 billion is probably fewer than get handed out for littering during normal times, hardly a breakdown of law and order.


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> Wow. I don't think they could do the really strict lockdowns in the U.K. They've barely been able to keep order with the lockdown we do have. Boris initially wanted the Swedish route I think, but that was when people thought it was a fun holiday and went to the beach, instead of following guidelines. I admit, I wouldn't want to follow really strict rules, unless I was at risk of being shot, or arrested. The curve was flattened, the nhs staff had time to coordinate dance parties, which they wouldn't if they were short of ppe and had bodies piling up in the street. I think we're getting ready to ease the lockdown too.


You have to remember that until 1956. Hungary was a Soviet satellite state and as such lived under an authoritarian rule, the memories of which still remain today. I think that's why Hungarians particularly the older ones don't have much difficulty in following the rules. There have been some violations, but unlike the US no protests thank goodness.

This afternoon the government released the new measures for Budapest and the surrounding area where the majority of cases have been. Basically, it means, no one can leave their home unless they have a good reason.

http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...nT5FHhEvLQa_wZIHAHgOIo_ty6hjz6fuXWqHnUv_cj-z4 .

*Coronavirus Update: New measures coming into effect on May 4 limits activities of those living in Budapest and Pest County*

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-life-in-budapest-hungary-under-lockdown/

*Lockdown Diary, Budapest*


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Wow. I don't think they could do the really strict lockdowns in the U.K. They've barely been able to keep order with the lockdown we do have.


tbf I think the GBP, for the most, have not needed anyone to keep order for them
once people realised, me included, just how serious this whole c-19 was, that it wasnt just a rabid form of the flu, people did what was asked, not demanded, not having to be made law, just asked
yes 
you get the stupid, itll never happen to me, bravado berks, who, imo, deserve all they get
but
there not been any need for police or armed forces having to go around telling people to get indoors
no guns drawn or batons/tasers being used
no tanks rolling down the streets with loud hailers being used
very few, if any, roadblocks
and
with the great sense of humour, and respect, that the GBP is reknown for in times of hardship


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> tbf I think the GBP, for the most, have not needed anyone to keep order for them
> once people realised, me included, just how serious this whole c-19 was, that it wasnt just a rabid form of the flu, people did what was asked, not demanded, not having to be made law, just asked
> yes
> you get the stupid, itll never happen to me, bravado berks, who, imo, deserve all they get
> but
> there not been any need for police or armed forces having to go around telling people to get indoors
> no guns drawn or batons/tasers being used
> no tanks rolling down the streets with loud hailers being used
> very few, if any, roadblocks
> and
> with the great sense of humour, and respect, that the GBP is reknown for in times of hardship


Yeah, but we haven't had the really strict lockdown other countries have. I'm not sure that it would work here. A lot of people ignored the advisories until they were made rules and even then quite a few ignored it, they just weren't penalised.


----------



## havoc

Well we do differ from other countries in that the virus ceases to be harmful on Thursday nights at 8pm. Not seen anyone fined for that even though whole streets congregate.


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Yeah, but we haven't had the really strict lockdown other countries have. I'm not sure that it would work here. A lot of people ignored the advisories until they were made rules and even then quite a few ignored it, they just weren't penalised.


we havent had them
because they werent needed
they were threatened that, if people didnt behave and stop congregating in parks, on beaches, sunbathing etc, then a martial lockdown could be brought into place
which was enough to make, probably, around 90% of the GBP listen and take notice
therefore this strict lockdown you speak about, didnt have to happen here
_maybe,_ had people not done it voluntarily, things wouldve been different
but they did, so it didnt

would you rather a strict lockdown had been enforced? as it seems as if you wouldve liked it to be

edit as a marital law and a martial law are very different


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> would you rather a strict lockdown had been enforced? as it seems as if you wouldve liked it to be


There are many people who, through fear or ignorance, would like everyone to be boarded up in their homes - everyone but them of course. It isn't an unusual reaction, especially from the vulnerable and understandable in those circumstances. Not so different from those who want restrictions to stay in place - forever if necessary, there's no guarantee of a vaccine and without one the only alternative is permanent lockdown or herd immunity.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> There are many people who, through fear or ignorance, would like everyone to be boarded up in their homes - everyone but them of course. It isn't an unusual reaction, especially from the vulnerable and understandable in those circumstances. Not so different from those who want restrictions to stay in place - forever if necessary, there's no guarantee of a vaccine and without one the only alternative is permanent lockdown or herd immunity.


which is why i asked the question, nothing more
As one of the vunerable, ill be first out the door when 'allowed'
yet
my fear is more based on a second wave
where all those who _*HAVE*_ been isolating and keeping indoors for their own, others and the NHS
suddenly become 'new fodder' for the virus
So my 'allowed' time, into the new world, probably wont come until a vaccine is available
until then
I thank those who are either onboard with isolating and social distancing, or both
not only do they keep themselves safe, they keep me safe too
all without martial law or enforced lockdown, being needed


----------



## Sacrechat

havoc said:


> Well we do differ from other countries in that the virus ceases to be harmful on Thursday nights at 8pm. Not seen anyone fined for that even though whole streets congregate.


No one congregates where I live; we all remain in our own gardens. We can see and hear others; we shout and wave to each other, but we are all a lot more than 2 metres apart.


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> we havent had them
> because they werent needed
> they were threatened that, if people didnt behave and stop congregating in parks, on beaches, sunbathing etc, then a martail lockdown could be brought into place
> which was enough to make, probably, around 90% of the GBP listen and take notice
> therefore this strict lockdown you speak about, didnt have to happen here
> _maybe,_ had people not done it voluntarily, things wouldve been different
> but they did, so it didnt
> 
> would you rather a strict lockdown had been enforced? as it seems as if you wouldve liked it to be


And where did I say that?

The people in my street have been holding barbecues and having meet ups and parties. The kids have hanging around as normal and they've been having visitors. They say there isn't much virus round here, they all shop in the same shops and go to the same places, so it's stupid to be isolated. Our local forestry lasted about a week before people started driving up there to go cycling etc. again. Yeah it went quiet for a while, but people got bored and they're doing pretty much what they like again. Whole communities in the U.K. have ignored the lockdown too.

However, why would you think that U.K. citizens don't need an enforced lockdown, but Hungarian citizens do. I'd say people in Hungary are more likely to voluntarily follow rules than we are, not the other way around. Dunno, I don't live there.


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> However, why would you think that U.K. citizens don't need an enforced lockdown, but Hungarian citizens do. I'd say people in Hungary are more likely to voluntarily follow rules than we are, not the other way around. Dunno, I don't live there.


I didnt say that
I dont live in Hungary either


----------



## havoc

Sacremist said:


> No one congregates where I live; we all remain in our own gardens. We can see and hear others; we shout and wave to each other, but we are all a lot more than 2 metres apart.


And yet they do. BBC shows it with pride, sometimes in the same morning programme as a report of people daring to be in public spaces the required distance apart.

I'm not against the Thursday night thing btw, far from it, just using it as an example to show the hyprocrisy of some of the reporting.


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> tbf I think the GBP, for the most, have not needed anyone to keep order for them
> once people realised, me included, just how serious this whole c-19 was, that it wasnt just a rabid form of the flu, people did what was asked, not demanded, not having to be made law, just asked
> yes
> you get the stupid, itll never happen to me, bravado berks, who, imo, deserve all they get
> but
> there not been any need for police or armed forces having to go around telling people to get indoors
> no guns drawn or batons/tasers being used
> no tanks rolling down the streets with loud hailers being used
> very few, if any, roadblocks
> and
> with the great sense of humour, and respect, that the GBP is reknown for in times of hardship


I sincerely hope you don't think the Hungarian police are rolling down the streets in tanks and marching around wearing jack boots.and waving batons because they aren't? In fact to people living in other European countries with different ways of coping with the situation your post could comes over as quite offensive.

The police and army are there to ask people to respect the law because by doing so it helps to stop the spread of the virus. And also to reassure people with their presence and offer help if needed. Simples!


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> I sincerely hope you don't think the Hungarian police are rolling down the streets in tanks and marching around wearing jack boots.and waving batons because they aren't? In fact to people living in other European countries with different ways of coping with the situation your post could comes over as quite offensive.
> 
> The police and army are there to ask people to respect the law because by doing so it helps to stop the spread of the virus. And also to reassure people with their presence and offer help if needed. Simples!


did i mention ANY country other than the UK?
no i didnt
Let alone another European country
so IF people want to be offended thats up to them, theyre looking for offence where non is implied or given
but
If you are offended, please show me where i answered a quesiton with any offence and i will, of course, apologise

edit to add
this was the question I was answering, and during the answering, nothing in there mentioning any other specific country either


> Yeah, but we haven't had the really strict lockdown other countries have. I'm not sure that it would work here. A lot of people ignored the advisories until they were made rules and even then quite a few ignored it, they just weren't penalised.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> which is why i asked the question, nothing more
> As one of the vunerable, ill be first out the door when 'allowed'
> yet
> my fear is more based on a second wave
> where all those who _*HAVE*_ been isolating and keeping indoors for their own, others and the NHS
> suddenly become 'new fodder' for the virus
> So my 'allowed' time, into the new world, probably wont come until a vaccine is available
> until then
> I thank those who are either onboard with isolating and social distancing, or both
> not only do they keep themselves safe, they keep me safe too
> all without martial law or enforced lockdown, being needed


I'm with you on that. I can't see that I will be going out until there's a reliable vaccine. What I would like to do is spend some time with our friends up the road who are self isolating too and that will probably be all I will be tempted into.

Not sure how I will feel once my op is over and I've fully recovered, but given my age and a tendency towards bronchitis I will feel very nervous about mixing with people again


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Well we do differ from other countries in that the virus ceases to be harmful on Thursday nights at 8pm. Not seen anyone fined for that even though whole streets congregate.


In Hungary it's every evening at 8 pm.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-applauds-healthcare-workers-every-day-at-8pm/

*Hungary Applauds Healthcare Workers Every Day at 8pm*


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary it's every evening at 8 pm.
> 
> https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-applauds-healthcare-workers-every-day-at-8pm/
> 
> *Hungary Applauds Healthcare Workers Every Day at 8pm*


I don't think that would work here. Too many people and so many would have kids sleeping at that time, plus shift workers and people like me who go to bed really early to get up early many mornings

They deserve it though and if it happened, I'd have to go to bed after 8pm


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Not sure how I will feel once my op is over and I've fully recovered, but given my age and a tendency towards bronchitis I will feel very nervous about mixing with people again


I should think most people would be wary for quite a while even if all restrictions were lifted tomorrow. Certainly most who can see how they might be affected. Can also understand why younger generations will become frustrated very quickly. The figures are pretty clear, don't be old or obese if you want to survive and the young in the main don't perceive a danger because it doesn't exist the same for them.

The thing I've realised I miss very much will be the last to come back. Will I take the chance and travel to another country if they allow large gatherings to see live music before we do? Darn right I will. I'm old enough it could be my last chance anyway.


----------



## catz4m8z

Just imagine if this had happened pre internet/social media... I bet we would be struggling alot more back in those days!


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> I should think most people would be wary for quite a while even if all restrictions were lifted tomorrow. Certainly most who can see how they might be affected. Can also understand why younger generations will become frustrated very quickly. The figures are pretty clear, don't be old or obese if you want to survive and the young in the main don't perceive a danger because it doesn't exist the same for them.
> 
> The thing I've realised I miss very much will be the last to come back. Will I take the chance and travel to another country if they allow large gatherings to see live music before we do? Darn right I will. I'm old enough it could be my last chance anyway.


I might be on the old side, but one thing to come from my illness is that I'm no longer obese and just need to lose another 9lbs to be the right weight for my height and age. It's the only plus side though


----------



## rona

OH heard from his BIL who has been part of a special team in a Surrey hospital that have been helping the respiratory team during Corvid19. His team have been stood down because the normal staff can now cope


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Just imagine if this had happened pre internet/social media... I bet we would be struggling alot more back in those days


Less misinformation flying about.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Less misinformation flying about.


true
but more reliance on the redtops and daily mail for news


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> did i mention ANY country other than the UK?
> no i didnt
> Let alone another European country
> so IF people want to be offended thats up to them, theyre looking for offence where non is implied or given
> but
> If you are offended, please show me where i answered a quesiton with any offence and i will, of course, apologise
> 
> edit to add
> this was the question I was answering, and during the answering, nothing in there mentioning any other specific country either


Firstly. this wasn't the question you were answering from @Elles post

"Yeah, but we haven't had the really strict lockdown other countries have. I'm not sure that it would work here. A lot of people ignored the advisories until they were made rules and even then quite a few ignored it, they just weren't penalised."

It was this one, also posted by @Elles.in her reply to my post about the lock down in Hungary



Elles said:


> Wow. I don't think they could do the really strict lockdowns in the U.K. They've barely been able to keep order with the lockdown we do have.


And my post about the lock down in Hungary was comparing it to Jaf's post about the the lock down in Spain, which if I'm correct is a European country?????????

It seems too much of a coincidence that your reply was basically stating the kind of measures taken in countries under authoritarian rule which both Hungary and Spain have been in recent history. Which of course could lead to a misunderstanding.

Life's too short to waste time on arguing, and as there are plenty more important things to worry about I suggest we forget it and move on?


----------



## kimthecat

People mainly seem to be abiding by the rules here. Perhaps because London had more cases and deaths than other parts of the country? Only seem the odd cop car or two but not stopping anyone. 
London deaths are decreasing . The Nightingale hospital has barely been used.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...n-intensive-care-cases-covid-19-a9494861.html

London's Nightingale Hospital is effectively being wound down after taking no new patients in the past week.

Staff were told today that a decision on its future would be made within days.

The field hospital, built in just 10 days at the start of April, had only 19 patients on Friday, down from a peak of around 35 earlier in the month.

London hospitals are increasingly choosing to keep patients in their own intensive care units.

One source said London's Nightingale was in effect being "wound down", with staff from the Royal London Hospital, who were due to be seconded to work there, told they were no longer needed on Friday due to the small numbers of patients.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> Just imagine if this had happened pre internet/social media... I bet we would be struggling alot more back in those days!


I was working in a hospital in South Africa during the HIV/AIDS epidemic and we'd only had internet for a couple of years and it was still very primitive. Basically only email and Yahoo and copper thieves regularly used to steal our overhead lines which left us without a connection for days!

Those were the days!


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> Firstly. this wasn't the question you were answering from @Elles post
> 
> "Yeah, but we haven't had the really strict lockdown other countries have. I'm not sure that it would work here. A lot of people ignored the advisories until they were made rules and even then quite a few ignored it, they just weren't penalised."
> 
> It was this one, also posted by @Elles.in her reply to my post about the lock down in Hungary
> 
> And my post about the lock down in Hungary was comparing it to Jaf's post about the the lock down in Spain, which if I'm correct is a European country?????????
> 
> It seems too much of a coincidence that your reply was basically stating the kind of measures taken in countries under authoritarian rule which both Hungary and Spain have been in recent history. Which of course could lead to a misunderstanding.
> 
> Life's too short to waste time on arguing, and as there are plenty more important things to worry about I suggest we forget it and move on?


My apologies for the misquote
but
whether or not you believe me, i was ONLY answering the the post, not inferring, implying or anything else about any other country
sometimes i wonder if im just too naive for this forum, 
thinking that, posting in reply to another, 
one has to go back further to make sure it isnt linked to another post, 
whilst one has been away,
to make sure ones reply doesnt get twisted and taken out of context by someone else

anyhow get on with things by all means, ill stay away, this thread has caused me, personally, far too much heartache already


----------



## Jobeth

Magyarmum said:


> I was working in a hospital in South Africa during the HIV/AIDS epidemic and we'd only had internet for a couple of years and it was still very primitive. Basically only email and Yahoo and copper thieves regularly used to steal our overhead lines which left us without a connection for days!
> 
> Those were the days!


I know what you mean!


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> OH heard from his BIL who has been part of a special team in a Surrey hospital that have been helping the respiratory team during Corvid19. His team have been stood down because the normal staff can now cope


Sounds good. I know my local hospital has been able to shut one of their covid wards due to lack of patients and the high dependency beds are nowhere near full.
My only concern would be a second spike once lockdown lifts.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Sounds good. I know my local hospital has been able to shut one of their covid wards due to lack of patients and the high dependency beds are nowhere near full.
> My only concern would be a second spike once lockdown lifts.


They can go back in if needed, they won't need the specialist training if they are needed again


----------



## catz4m8z

TBH Id rather see them properly assessing care home residents now they have space. While I could understand not taking them hospital whilst bed space was severely limited it does seem like they are just being deserted now.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> My only concern would be a second spike once lockdown lifts.


Logically speaking, that is more or less a certainty, with more peaks every time it is further relaxed. Lockdown has never been about stopping COVID-19 in its tracks and then we all go back to 'normal', it's simply about keeping the infection rate down to a level where hospitals can cope with the influx of critical patients. How long restrictions of some kind will go on for is as yet unknown, as we don't yet know what level of immunity (if any) having had it confers, how long it lasts, or when there will be a vaccine.

Looking at the current UK statistics, I'd say we've levelled off for the first wave. I'm not entirely sure we're past the first peak yet, as cases have spiked sharply again these last two days and held at that level. That could be due to an increased level of testing, or it could be thanks to that sunny weather we had a couple of weeks ago encouraging people to be less stringent with social distancing. Either way, it's just the first peak in what will inevitably be a statistical 'mountain range' if you will, until either herd immunity or an effective vaccine is forthcoming.

Human beings, though, are by nature adaptable creatures, and I suspect whatever the 'new' normal ends up being, it will become 'normal normal' before too long


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> My only concern would be a second spike once lockdown lifts.


That's my worry as well, I'd rather them keep it going a few weeks longer than lift it to soon.


----------



## havoc

How long is reasonable though? We have already robbed this year’s exam candidates of their chance for success. It will cost jobs. Many medical treatments have been suspended for conditions other than C-19. It’s cost an enormous amount of money and it will have to be paid for but not, in the main, by those who would be worst affected by the disease, those we are protecting now. In a civilised society we do this because we take care of the weak but when this is just a discussion question on a history paper I do wonder how it will be viewed. We risk sacrificing the futures of the young and healthy for the old and infirm. Looked at dispassionately, as numbers rather than people what we’re doing is mad.


----------



## Magyarmum

This is the chart showing Hungary's new cases. We're only a small country with a low number of infections compared to the UK.

I've posted it because it's very clear when the infection peaked and might give people some idea of what to look for.









Today we only had 56 new cases and 5 deaths but I expect now restrictions have been relaxed these figures will go up again in another couple of weeks.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> TBH Id rather see them properly assessing care home residents now they have space. While I could understand not taking them hospital whilst bed space was severely limited it does seem like they are just being deserted now.


There's no point taking someone who isn't a candidate for treatment to hospital. When it's an individual on end of life care we can get our heads round it but when it's just about every old person with dementia it is hard to take in. Remember we have no treatment for this virus, only supportive care which helps those who are strong enough to fight it themselves. The elderly who have reason to be in care homes just aren't in that category. Younger people in specialist care homes are different and I'd hope are assessed the same as anyone else.


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> Today we only had 56 new cases and 5 deaths but I expect now restrictions have been relaxed these figures will go up again in another couple of weeks.


You're not just in another country - that's a whole other world to us at the moment  Our 'peak' will go on for longer, has to if we flatten the curve.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> You're not just in another country - that's a whole other world to us at the moment  Our 'peak' will go on for longer, has to if we flatten the curve.


Hungary has had the same problem with the number of infections in care homes as I think most other countries have as well. In our case the Army have been sent in to disinfect and monitor care home throughout the country..

https://dailynewshungary.com/news_t...-disinfecting-hundreds-of-elderly-care-homes/

*Coronavirus in Hungary - Army starts disinfecting hundreds of elderly care homes*

Read more at: https://dailynewshungary.com/news_t...-disinfecting-hundreds-of-elderly-care-homes/


----------



## Boxer123

I am very anxious about going back to normal work (still working from home) possibly next month if the press is to be believed. It’s really stressing me out.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> I am very anxious about going back to normal work (still working from home) possibly next month if the press is to be believed. It's really stressing me out.


I understand that. Are you more anxious than before? It will be far safer than before lockdown and you didn't catch it then. It's also difficult to get used to being among people again when we've all been so isolated. That in itself would be a difficult transition even without the extra worry of the virus.


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> We risk sacrificing the futures of the young and healthy for the old and infirm.


Remarks like this are very dangerous. If you intended to cause distress to us older, useless, pointless members of society who are already terrified of what the future holds then congratulations. Shall I just go and blow my head off now??


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> I understand that. Are you more anxious than before? It will be far safer than before lockdown and you didn't catch it then. It's also difficult to get used to being among people again when we've all been so isolated. That in itself would be a difficult transition even without the extra worry of the virus.


I love my job and as I live alone it's a good source of social time for me but yes far more anxious than before. I just can't see how we can stay safe in schools.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> Remarks like this are very dangerous. If you intended to cause distress to us older, useless, pointless members of society who are already terrified of what the future holds then congratulations. Shall I just go and blow my head off now??


I'm one of those older, useless, pointless members of society for goodness sake.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> I love my job and as I live alone it's a good source of social time for me but yes far more anxious than before. I just can't see how we can stay safe in schools


Current evidence from the WHO suggests adults transmit to children (though they aren't badly affected) but it isn't happening the other way round, children are not infecting adults. Why isn't understood.


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> Current evidence from the WHO suggests adults transmit to children (though they aren't badly affected) but it isn't happening the other way round, children are not infecting adults. Why isn't understood.


Really do you have a link that would make me feel a lot better ? Right now I feel like spending the next year in isolation with boxers.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> Really do you have a link that would make me feel a lot better ? Right now I feel like spending the next year in isolation with boxers.


It was someone from the WHO on the Andrew Marr show this morning - a happy coincidence


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> It was someone from the WHO on the Andrew Marr show this morning - a happy coincidence


Maybe I'll watch it on the iplayer later.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> Maybe I'll watch it on the iplayer later.


If you want to fast forward to the right bit it's a woman with blonde hair 
Purely fortuitous I saw it, had the TV on as I was getting ready to go out for a run.


----------



## kimthecat

havoc said:


> There's no point taking someone who isn't a candidate for treatment to hospital. When it's an individual on end of life care we can get our heads round it but when it's just about every old person with dementia it is hard to take in. Remember we have no treatment for this virus, only supportive care which helps those who are strong enough to fight it themselves. The elderly who have reason to be in care homes just aren't in that category. Younger people in specialist care homes are different and I'd hope are assessed the same as anyone else.


I see your point. We have a lot of care homes here though I wonder how qualified are the staff to be able to nurse them. The care people I know do things like feeding and dressing etc . They are not qualified for anything else.


----------



## kimthecat

havoc said:


> It was someone from the WHO on the Andrew Marr show this morning - a happy coincidence


Were they singing Hope I die before I get old ?  ( sorry !  )

Still rocking !


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> I see your point. We have a lot of care homes here though I wonder how qualified are the staff to be able to nurse them. The care people I know do things like feeding and dressing etc . They are not qualified for anything else.


There are varying types of homes. Care homes, and care homes with nursing care. Probably more defined than that too. Hence why some people to get the right home for an elderly relative that may need some assistance, but not many medical ailments end up in care homes far away. If getting the right place matters. All very confusing. 
Then of course there is residential care for those with additional needs, not usually age marked but some are categorises by age. It all gets confusing.

There are a whole range of care homes out there. Supporting young and old.

If no nursing on site, then i would say as the government say it would be a trip to the hospital for care. Although am guessing it would all depend on Co morbidities too as even those in nursing homes still can end up in hospital. Sorry confused the conversation again using the word nursing home, it was the distinction at one time between a care home with nursing care.


----------



## Rafa

havoc said:


> There's no point taking someone who isn't a candidate for treatment to hospital. When it's an individual on end of life care we can get our heads round it but when it's just about every old person with dementia it is hard to take in. Remember we have no treatment for this virus, only supportive care which helps those who are strong enough to fight it themselves. The elderly who have reason to be in care homes just aren't in that category. Younger people in specialist care homes are different and I'd hope are assessed the same as anyone else.


Doesn't often happen to me but officially lost for words.


----------



## lullabydream

havoc said:


> Younger people in specialist care homes are different and I'd hope are assessed the same as anyone else


Hmmmm, depends what type of care home to be honest. I would like to think this is the case, but I don't know how realistic that is. Not all younger people in specialist care homes could cope with hospitals and I don't know how hospitals could accommodate support workers, or even specialist care homes cope with out support workers to assist someone in hospitals. It's all very difficult but the hope is, the younger they are the less Covid-19 affects them. However if they have comorbities here lies the problem. 
The figures currently do seem to support that it is the elderly though.


----------



## lullabydream

Rafa said:


> Doesn't often happen to me but officially lost for words.


Am sure dementia has been classed as one of the co morbidities in one of the statistics reports by national statistics, pre to adding care home deaths. So some dementia patients must be getting treatment at hospital...

Of course not everyone is elderly with dementia, and there are various types, vascular being one which might be the biggest cause.

****if it's not on national statistics apologises seen so many statistics recently*****


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> There's no point taking someone who isn't a candidate for treatment to hospital. When it's an individual on end of life care we can get our heads round it but when it's just about every old person with dementia it is hard to take in. Remember we have no treatment for this virus, only supportive care which helps those who are strong enough to fight it themselves. The elderly who have reason to be in care homes just aren't in that category. Younger people in specialist care homes are different and I'd hope are assessed the same as anyone else.


boy!
am i glad i cannot be dispassionate ,when it comes to my fellow human beings,
even murders/rapists/ child molesters, are someones child

are you volunteering to go and say this to every child, partenr, sibling of those in care homes?
not forgetting of course ,
the younger people who have developed early onset dementia
locked in syndrome,
severe autism,
severe cp,
downs syndrome
strokes etc
all of whom may be unable to understand or communicate their needs?

can i be a fly on the wall when you do, please

back outta here


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> How long is reasonable though? We have already robbed this year's exam candidates of their chance for success. It will cost jobs. Many medical treatments have been suspended for conditions other than C-19. It's cost an enormous amount of money and it will have to be paid for but not, in the main, by those who would be worst affected by the disease, those we are protecting now. In a civilised society we do this because we take care of the weak but when this is just a discussion question on a history paper I do wonder how it will be viewed. *We risk sacrificing the futures of the young and healthy for the old and infirm*. Looked at dispassionately, as numbers rather than people what we're doing is mad.


That's nice isn't it, I was thinking of everyone when I said " I'd rather them keep it going a few weeks longer than lift it to soon". If we lift the lockdown to soon, we could be back here again and we don't won't do we.


----------



## catz4m8z

They def need to go back to assessing care home residents on a case by case basis I think. Alot of people do recover with just some oxygen, even the elderly, so there might be people dying needlessly in homes who could of recovered with just that little bit of extra support.
Even if their ceiling of care is just oxygen support and not ICU/high dependency care surely there must be a few people who have less serious health problems and still have a decent quality of life despite being in a care home?


----------



## Sacrechat

Cully said:


> Remarks like this are very dangerous. If you intended to cause distress to us older, useless, pointless members of society who are already terrified of what the future holds then congratulations. Shall I just go and blow my head off now??


Exactly! I'm 60 so not exactly young and healthy, but I could still live another 20 years or more and I have every intention of continuing to work if my health allows it.


----------



## mrs phas

This popped up on my Facebook and I thought it was rather good, if a little twee, as we move forward, with so many of us worried about the unknown beyond
.........
As governments are trying to figure out how to ease back in to a new normal, please remember:

Some people don’t agree with the suggested re-opening.... that’s okay. Be kind.

Some people are still planning to stay home.... that’s okay. Be kind.

Some are still scared of getting the virus and a second wave happening.... that’s okay. Be kind.

Some are sighing with relief to go back to work knowing they may possibly save their business or their homes....that’s okay. Be kind.

‍⚕Some are thankful they can finally have a surgery they have put off....that’s okay. Be kind.

Some will be able to attend interviews after weeks without a job....that’s okay. Be kind.

Some will wear masks for weeks....that’s okay. Be kind.

Some people will rush out to get the hair or nails done.... that’s okay. Be kind.

❤ The point is, everyone has different viewpoints/feelings and that’s okay. Be kind.

We each have a different story. If you need to stay home, stay home. But be kind.

If you need to go out, respect others when in public, and be kind!!!

Don’t judge fellow humans because you’re not in their story. We all are in different Financial - Physical - and - Mental states than we were months ago. So remember, be kind.


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> That's nice isn't it, I was thinking of everyone when I said " I'd rather them keep it going a few weeks longer than lift it to soon". If we lift the lockdown to soon, we could be back here again and we don't won't do we


To you and all who knee jerked to my post. I pointedly said what we do in a civilised society is NOT ignore those who are in need of extra consideration and it may be seen differently in the future when it's an intellectual exercise rather than something real we're living through.

That said, I do believe government does have to remain dispassionate to a certain extent and their thinking probably does take into account which groups this virus is affecting. I would hope beyond measure that we'd have taken far more stringent measures much sooner if it were children worst affected. That they aren't is a huge positive for me in this horror.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> Am sure dementia has been classed as one of the co morbidities in one of the statistics reports by national statistics, pre to adding care home deaths. So some dementia patients must be getting treatment at hospital...
> 
> Of course not everyone is elderly with dementia, and there are various types, vascular being one which might be the biggest cause.
> 
> ****if it's not on national statistics apologises seen so many statistics recently*****


Sorry to go on about Hungary so much, but we're given a list of all the people who've died as a result of contracting the virus and their underlying medical condition. With the odd exception, the majority are elderly and were already receiving treatment for existing medical conditions.

This article gives the list of deaths up to April 21 2020. We now have over 300.

https://dailynewshungary.com/coronavirus-hungarys-covid-19-deaths-top-200/

*Coronavirus - Hungary's COVID-19 deaths top 200*

Read more at: https://dailynewshungary.com/coronavirus-hungarys-covid-19-deaths-top-200/


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> To you and all who knee jerked to my post. I pointedly said what we do in a civilised society is NOT ignore those who are in need of extra consideration and it may be seen differently in the future when it's an intellectual exercise rather than something real we're living through.
> 
> That said, I do believe government does have to remain dispassionate to a certain extent and their thinking probably does take into account which groups this virus is affecting. I would hope beyond measure that we'd have taken far more stringent measures much sooner if it were children worst affected. That they aren't is a huge positive for me in this horror.


Of cause you are welcome to your thoughts, I and know the government acted too slow at the start, but we are where we are, and I think lifting the lockdown to soon could be dangerous for everyone.


----------



## Jobeth

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...vation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april

This is the link to the interactive map that has been on the news. To see the amount of people that have died in your area (sorry it sounds awful) you need to go to section 6 and put in your postcode. I prefer the Facebook page each week where the hospital tells you how many have survived- it included a 100 year old lady last week.

I'm currently in an area where luckily no one has died but it's surrounded by dots of green. My parents thankfully are the same and even better they have a lot less green around them. I also looked at crime rates and that made me realise I'm really lucky to be where I am as it was so low compared to everywhere I looked 22 in a month compared to 179 where my base is. Off topic but https://crime-statistics.co.uk/postcode


----------



## Boxer123

Reading @havoc post I think it has been taken a bit out of context unfortunately these are decisions the government are having to make.

Someone posted this on Facebook and it was forwarded to me. I do agree with it. Of course lockdown is hard however I do hope we do not come out to early.

My Nan is 72 and healthy, she a few years ago went through her third divorce and is now living La Dolce Vita being single. My family on that side tend to make it to their nineties. I don't want to lose her 20 years early, but she would just be another statistic. I love my nan very much.


----------



## Siskin

Jobeth said:


> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...vation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april
> 
> This is the link to the interactive map that has been on the news. To see the amount of people that have died in your area (sorry it sounds awful) you need to go to section 6 and put in your postcode. I prefer the Facebook page each week where the hospital tells you how many have survived- it included a 100 year old lady last week.
> 
> I'm currently in an area where luckily no one has died but it's surrounded by dots of green. My parents thankfully are the same and even better they have a lot less green around them. I also looked at crime rates and that made me realise I'm really lucky to be where I am as it was so low compared to everywhere I looked 22 in a month compared to 179 where my base is. Off topic but https://crime-statistics.co.uk/postcode


I've just had a look in my area and there have been 2 deaths is what is quite a large area. I also checked out the postcode where we have the static van and it shows no deaths.

Although a somewhat depressing list of statistics it is a useful and interesting piece


----------



## MilleD

Can anyone explain why the press couldn't stop bitching how late the government implemented lockdown, but are now gnashing their teeth to get an answer on when we will come out of it?

The government really can't win in this.


----------



## Magyarmum

We've had 69 cases in the region where I live, one of which was in my local town. Considering the region covers an area of nearly 2,900 sq miles and has a population of 643,000 people the chances of me contracting the virus is quite slim!

Having said that I'm still going to work on the principle that everyone is infected:Finger


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 438543
> Reading @havoc post I think it has been taken a bit out of context unfortunately these are decisions the government are having to make.
> .


It's decisions the health service had to make every day before the advent of Covid-19 and will still be making after it's gone.

These decisions are not purely about money or beds, it's about what is best for patients and where they are better off.

I saw a paramedic being interviewed after assessing a case in a care home. She said that for patients with advanced dementia in care homes, sometimes the worst thing to do was to remove them to somewhere completely unknown. And would make the same decision if Coronavirus wasn't in the equation.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Can anyone explain why the press couldn't stop bitching how late the government implemented lockdown, but are now gnashing their teeth to get an answer on when we will come out of it?
> 
> The government really can't win in this.


It's just the media isn't it. The Government will never do right in their eyes.

I think they really thought we would only be in lockdown for those initial 3 weeks, and I do think coming out of lockdown slowly they think is going to be too slow.

Am waiting how they respond to the app. what they are going to think of that.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> OH heard from his BIL who has been part of a special team in a Surrey hospital that have been helping the respiratory team during Corvid19. His team have been stood down because the normal staff can now cope


The county council here have created an extra mortuary at the local county showground and had plans for another. The first one set up has not been used so the second one has been shelved.

Which is good news.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> It's just the media isn't it. The Government will never do right in their eyes.
> 
> I think they really thought we would only be in lockdown for those initial 3 weeks, and I do think coming out of lockdown slowly they think is going to be too slow.
> 
> Am waiting how they respond to the app. what they are going to think of that.


Did you see the thing on Facebook about the press completely missing the mood of the nation? It was really good, will have to see if I can find it.

But the press change their minds like the wind don't they.

Not a single person I know thought that initial 3 weeks would be it, but the baying press started on immediately when they extended it.

Idiots.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Did you see the thing on Facebook about the press completely missing the mood of the nation? It was really good, will have to see if I can find it.
> 
> But the press change their minds like the wind don't they.
> 
> Not a single person I know thought that initial 3 weeks would be it, but the baying press started on immediately when they extended it.
> 
> Idiots.


Not on Facebook, so please find.

Yep.. I swear they just pick up on any failings they think the government have ie ppe, which in all fairness hasn't just been a UK issue, its been a global issue. Not all countries but certain ones didn't get their first cases of Covid-19 till later so had more time to prepare. Some could say we should have always been prepared but at what cost, where is the extra storage for what we need for a pandemic. There is already complaints that some stock is classed as out of date.. Depending what it is, it probably is fine.

I don't know anyone either who thought lockdown would be just 3 weeks!


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Not on Facebook, so please find.
> 
> Yep.. I swear they just pick up on any failings they think the government have ie ppe, which in all fairness hasn't just been a UK issue, its been a global issue. Not all countries but certain ones didn't get their first cases of Covid-19 till later so had more time to prepare. Some could say we should have always been prepared but at what cost, where is the extra storage for what we need for a pandemic. There is already complaints that some stock is classed as out of date.. Depending what it is, it probably is fine.
> 
> I don't know anyone either who thought lockdown would be just 3 weeks!


Here you go. Apologies for the slight mention of politics:


Andrew Wilson
23 April at 15:05
A message to all our Negative UK Press - including Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC, Robert Peston of ITV, Beth Rigby of Sky, Piers Morgan of ITV, BBC News in general and all the other negative UK press.

Journalism is missing the "mood" in this great country of ours - the United Kingdom. We do not want or need blame. We do not want constant criticism of our Government who are doing their very best in a very difficult and unprecedented global emergency.

We want and need a constructive contribution to the national effort to help us out of this crisis. We need hope, optimism and faith, with less negativity and more positive support from these journalists. It is time you all changed your negative and political rhetoric for the health of this nation and start supporting our Government.

Let's get this message VIRAL and they might just take note.


----------



## Happy Paws2

It would be nice to hear the numbers of many recover each day and not only how many have died.

The media are a voice of doom most of the time.


----------



## Elles

My M-I-L nearly died with Covid, but of neglect. If my F-I-L hadn’t been given ppe to say his farewells and seen that she was unconscious and badly dehydrated and her GP and my husband’s brother hasn’t intervened, she would have died. She now has a panic button directly linked to her husband’s phone to press if they don’t give her water and her medication again, but staff are now bending over backwards. I didn’t post, because I don’t want to worry someone when they aren’t allowed to visit relatives, but imo we must be careful when we say it’s ok to let people die.


----------



## Elles

Oh and we’re talking of letting elderly people die if they aren’t already in the best of health and of not using valuable resources to save them, but murderers, rapists, child abusers etc the loons want them let out, so they can be protected from Covid.


----------



## Siskin

So sorry to hear this @Elles but really please to hear that you MIL has recovered from the virus

I so agree about the negative attitude of the media, I don't watch the news at all as I'm fed up to the back teeth of all the whining and moaning that goes on. 
We seem to be in a state of plateau with the virus which means the lockdown was successful in stopping a countrywide spread and the nhs being overwhelmed. Hopefully in the next few weeks the number of new cases and the death toll will start to fall and it is only at that point that relaxation of lockdown can be considered. A careful watch needs to be kept on countries like Spain who are beginning to relax their rules to see if there are suddenly more cases diagnosed and a flare up of the virus.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> My M-I-L nearly died with Covid, but of neglect. If my F-I-L hadn't been given ppe to say his farewells and seen that she was unconscious and badly dehydrated and her GP and my husband's brother hasn't intervened, she would have died. She now has a panic button directly linked to her husband's phone to press if they don't give her water and her medication again, but staff are now bending over backwards. I didn't post, because I don't want to worry someone when they aren't allowed to visit relatives, but imo we must be careful when we say it's ok to let people die.


That's real lack of care.. It's basic support in times of being unwell with viruses to give extra fluids. It's been part of what has been suggested for Covid-19 too, which is literally common sense.

Thank God this was noted, am so sorry to hear this happened. Please take this further.

To go back to the media the only decent thing they have done in all of this is highlight Colonel Tom Moore


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> *Oh and we're talking of letting elderly people die* if they aren't already in the best of health* and of not using valuable resources to save them*, but murderers, rapists, child abusers etc the loons want them let out, so they can be protected from Covid.


That's really not what is being said.

At no point have there not been enough beds or respirators available as far as I've heard?

It's about what the best course of action in each case.

Obviously your MIL's case was lack of care by specific workers - not a decision made not to intervene. Glad it's sorted now.


----------



## ForestWomble

Jobeth said:


> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...vation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april
> 
> This is the link to the interactive map that has been on the news. To see the amount of people that have died in your area (sorry it sounds awful) you need to go to section 6 and put in your postcode. I prefer the Facebook page each week where the hospital tells you how many have survived- it included a 100 year old lady last week.
> 
> I'm currently in an area where luckily no one has died but it's surrounded by dots of green. My parents thankfully are the same and even better they have a lot less green around them. I also looked at crime rates and that made me realise I'm really lucky to be where I am as it was so low compared to everywhere I looked 22 in a month compared to 179 where my base is. Off topic but https://crime-statistics.co.uk/postcode


Thank you for the link, as depressing as it is, it's made me feel a lot better as there are no deaths in my parents area so I feel much happier about their safety now. 
There has 'only' been 1 death in my area too, so that's a relief.



Elles said:


> My M-I-L nearly died with Covid, but of neglect. If my F-I-L hadn't been given ppe to say his farewells and seen that she was unconscious and badly dehydrated and her GP and my husband's brother hasn't intervened, she would have died. She now has a panic button directly linked to her husband's phone to press if they don't give her water and her medication again, but staff are now bending over backwards. I didn't post, because I don't want to worry someone when they aren't allowed to visit relatives, but imo we must be careful when we say it's ok to let people die.


I am so sorry to hear that, I'm glad your F-I-L was able to intervene and get her the help she needed.

Sadly this type of neglect does happen, it's happened to me multiple times


----------



## Elles

MilleD said:


> That's really not what is being said.
> 
> At no point have there not been enough beds or respirators available as far as I've heard?
> 
> It's about what the best course of action in each case.
> 
> Obviously your MIL's case was lack of care by specific workers - not a decision made not to intervene. Glad it's sorted now.


It is what's being said. My MIL is wheelchair bound, in her early 70s, she didn't have dementia, but these specific health care workers thought it was ok to stop caring for her when she succumbed to Covid. I'm just saying we all, though the government specifically, need to be careful. If they imply it's ok not to hospitalise or treat people, because they're old and might not survive, people may die who shouldn't. I don't think it's a good example to set for the young anyway, many who think anyone over 30 is old and past it. :Hilarious

Each generation has plenty to teach and learn from the other, I'm uncomfortable personally with the idea that the young have more value than the old, all should be valued equally, especially as you say, there hasn't been a lack of beds etc. We all (most) inconvenienced ourselves and helped flatten the curve, exactly so that the nhs had the resources to treat everyone. I will be glad when other operations and preventative care are back to full function. I really feel for those who have had surgeries cancelled.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> though the government specifically, need to be careful. If they imply it's ok not to hospitalise or treat people,


It's not the government though, I don't know if your local news is reporting deaths in local hospital but mine do. A lot are 80 plus, I would say not all living at home, but the new data isn't just care homes its everyone including deaths at home. 
The data pre care homes always had the older generation included so many have gone into hospitals. Some will have naturally Co morbidities which may be an age thing, some of course may not. So they are being treated. 
The worry in care homes, just like in family homes is it spreads quickly. There are homes which have many many residents, which actually blow my mind as around here we only have small ones. Say 30 would be huge. There are some with 100 residents. Now that's a great deal. Vulnerable because age, although many maybe fit and healthy and need little support per se, biology isn't always as forgiving to some degree.

I would hope the ones going into hospital, and not given hope per se would be the ones who already have a DNR in place. However wouldn't be left to suffer. DNR are not just for the elderly, I knew an 18 year old who had one. More prevalent with the elderly, though


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> It is what's being said. My MIL is wheelchair bound, in her early 70s, she didn't have dementia, but these specific health care workers thought it was ok to stop caring for her when she succumbed to Covid.


So it was a specific decision to withdraw care?


----------



## Elles

I don’t think there was an official instruction to withdraw care, more a case of staff taking it upon themselves, because it’s being spread about that it’s ok to let the elderly go, especially if they already have issues and may not survive. Some older people are themselves saying not to waste anything on them if they get sick, even though it frightens them and they enjoy life. They don’t want to be a burden.

I know of course that in some situations people are permitted to slip away peacefully and all we can do is try to make them comfortable, but euthanasia of humans isn’t legal here, especially if said human doesn’t want to go and I am concerned that some are being ‘let go’ unnecessarily, especially by staff who have the bare minimum of qualifications and don’t particularly enjoy their work. Some people are not nice, we shouldn’t be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


----------



## ForestWomble

Elles said:


> I don't think there was an official instruction to withdraw care, more a case of staff taking it upon themselves, because it's being spread about that it's ok to let the elderly go, especially if they already have issues and may not survive. Some older people are themselves saying not to waste anything on them if they get sick, even though it frightens them and they enjoy life. They don't want to be a burden.
> 
> I know of course that in some situations people are permitted to slip away peacefully and all we can do is try to make them comfortable, but euthanasia of humans isn't legal here, especially if said human doesn't want to go and I am concerned that some are being 'let go' unnecessarily, especially by staff who have the bare minimum of qualifications and don't particularly enjoy their work. Some people are not nice, we shouldn't be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


Liked for the fact that the GP is taking this further.


----------



## mrs phas

Elles said:


> Some people are not nice, we shouldn't be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


this is something we should all remember
just because they have a uniform, a white coat or a label saying consultant, doesnt take away from what kind of person they are
look at Harold Shipman, Beverley Allit, William Husel et al
obviously we dont tar all with the same brush, just as we dont for any other person
but
we still need to be alert and remember, when calling anyone an angel
that
even Lucifer was an angel once

@Elles, im so happy your family noticed and put a stop to her withdrawal of care and basic humanity ( people should remember the Liverpool pathway) and i hope she is now going from strength to strength
It certainly makes one wonder about the amount, without family or visitors, who are, *perhaps*, coerced into signing DNR, when alone, feverish, scared and not capapable of understanding, or, just allowed to 'slip away'


----------



## ForestWomble

Sorry if it's been mentioned somewhere else in this thread but what's DNR?


----------



## Siskin

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry if it's been mentioned somewhere else in this thread but what's DNR?


Do not resuscitate.


----------



## catz4m8z

Feel like I should point out that DNRs arent just randomly given out coz someone has grey hair! They are always based on a persons individual medical history and their chances of recovery. It isnt just one thing or another either....there is always whats called a ceiling of care involved, meaning that somebody might not be for resuscitation but they would still be for high dependency treatment and care.
Equally Ive seen Drs pushing painful and distressing treatments on patients for weeks when they are clearly not going to get better and should be given the dignity and peace to slip away.
Having said that I also agree that the care home situation needs to be looked into. We now have the beds available in hospital so we shouldnt just write people off because they are in a care home.


----------



## lullabydream

Elles said:


> I don't think there was an official instruction to withdraw care, more a case of staff taking it upon themselves, because it's being spread about that it's ok to let the elderly go, especially if they already have issues and may not survive. Some older people are themselves saying not to waste anything on them if they get sick, even though it frightens them and they enjoy life. They don't want to be a burden.
> 
> I know of course that in some situations people are permitted to slip away peacefully and all we can do is try to make them comfortable, but euthanasia of humans isn't legal here, especially if said human doesn't want to go and I am concerned that some are being 'let go' unnecessarily, especially by staff who have the bare minimum of qualifications and don't particularly enjoy their work. Some people are not nice, we shouldn't be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


Even DNRs have to be updated, they don't just last till the end till someone's life and if a person hasn't got an official one then you shouldn't go on what they say. That's against the law.

Every person who is ventilated is told the risk, it 50/50 the person might not make it through. Though Covid-19 isn't just about ventilation per se, it can attack your kidneys so dialysis is needed, if this is not noted then heart attacks are and will be common.

Thank you @catz4m8z I was going to say DNRs are not given out easily. It takes a lot to get a DNR. People are not pushed into them, neither are families. They are drawn up when needed and in circumstances when no one wants to keep someone alive in a vegetative state for example because they have congestive heart failure. Yes they may be able to bring the person around after say a cardiac arrest, but after working on someone's heart for many many minutes, and people do; family, paramedics, hospital but it wasn't getting to the patient quick enough they may be alive but not even close to the person they were. They could be like this for months.


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> Do not resuscitate.


Thank you.


----------



## Cleo38

Elles said:


> I don't think there was an official instruction to withdraw care, more a case of staff taking it upon themselves, because it's being spread about that it's ok to let the elderly go, especially if they already have issues and may not survive. Some older people are themselves saying not to waste anything on them if they get sick, even though it frightens them and they enjoy life. They don't want to be a burden.
> 
> I know of course that in some situations people are permitted to slip away peacefully and all we can do is try to make them comfortable, but euthanasia of humans isn't legal here, especially if said human doesn't want to go and I am concerned that some are being 'let go' unnecessarily, especially by staff who have the bare minimum of qualifications and don't particularly enjoy their work. Some people are not nice, we shouldn't be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


I've not 'liked' this as such but more for the fact I am having (had) similar with my mum. She has mesothelioma which is a type of cancer that is not cureable & her latest treatment wasn't working (she had previously had chemo & was taking part in a clinical trial). A couple of weeks ago she received a devastating phone call telling her that her recent scan had revealed the cancer was spreading fast & she was no longer considered to be well enough to continue on the trial …. then she was left to get on with it. Despite obviously being very unwell they did nothing to offer pain relief, nothing to help with the news, nothing to advise on pallative care or what we should do next. Desperate phone calls from myself & my sister to her oncologist were basically ignored, as well as being incredibly stressed & concerned for my mum I was fuming

Luckily we have had such amazing help from the Macmillan nurses & the local hospice who I cannot praise enough for their help. My mum was very much of the generation who won't speak up, who doesn't want to be a burden & I am still so angry that she would have been left to die like this if she had not had me & my sister to fight her corner.

Whilst she will not get better as such she can be made more comfortable, have meds to help with her delirium she is experiencing at times, meds to help improve her appetite as well as pain, & meds to help with her breathlessness all of which should have been sorted out y the hospital weeks ago. I simply cannot understand how people can be forgotten about so easily & left terrified in their final weeks/months.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cleo38 said:


> I've not 'liked' this as such but more for the fact I am having (had) similar with my mum. She has mesothelioma which is a type of cancer that is not cureable & her latest treatment wasn't working (she had previously had chemo & was taking part in a clinical trial). A couple of weeks ago she received a devastating phone call telling her that her recent scan had revealed the cancer was spreading fast & she was now longer considered to be well enough to continue on the trial …. then she was left to get on with it. Despite obviously being very unwell they did nothing to offer pain relief, nothing to help with the news, nothing to advise on pallative care or what we should do next. Desperate phone calls from myself & my sister to her oncologist were basically ignored, as well as being incredibly stressed & concerned for my mum I was fuming
> 
> Luckily we have had such amazing help from the Macmillan nurses & the local hospice who I cannot praise enough for their help. My mum was very much of the generation who won't speak up, who doesn't want to be a burden & I am still so angry that she would have been left to die like this if she had not had me & my sister to fight her corner.
> 
> Whilst she will not get better as such she can be made more comfortable, have meds to help with her delirium she is experiencing at times, meds to help improve her appetite as well as pain, & meds to help with her breathlessness all of which should have been sorted out y the hospital weeks ago. I simply cannot understand how people can be forgotten about so easily & left terrified in their final weeks/months.


*offers HUG*


----------



## lullabydream

Cleo38 said:


> I've not 'liked' this as such but more for the fact I am having (had) similar with my mum. She has mesothelioma which is a type of cancer that is not cureable & her latest treatment wasn't working (she had previously had chemo & was taking part in a clinical trial). A couple of weeks ago she received a devastating phone call telling her that her recent scan had revealed the cancer was spreading fast & she was now longer considered to be well enough to continue on the trial …. then she was left to get on with it. Despite obviously being very unwell they did nothing to offer pain relief, nothing to help with the news, nothing to advise on pallative care or what we should do next. Desperate phone calls from myself & my sister to her oncologist were basically ignored, as well as being incredibly stressed & concerned for my mum I was fuming
> 
> Luckily we have had such amazing help from the Macmillan nurses & the local hospice who I cannot praise enough for their help. My mum was very much of the generation who won't speak up, who doesn't want to be a burden & I am still so angry that she would have been left to die like this if she had not had me & my sister to fight her corner.
> 
> Whilst she will not get better as such she can be made more comfortable, have meds to help with her delirium she is experiencing at times, meds to help improve her appetite as well as pain, & meds to help with her breathlessness all of which should have been sorted out y the hospital weeks ago. I simply cannot understand how people can be forgotten about so easily & left terrified in their final weeks/months.


That's terrible.


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> ( people should remember the Liverpool pathway)


I've often wondered what happened to this? I remember it was very topical years ago when it first came to light. I don't think many people knew about it until the This Morning presenter, Rustie Lee told the story of how her mum was affected by it and would have died without Rusties intervention.
There was a lot of controversy about it at the time and I assume it's been replaced now.


----------



## lorilu

Some good news for me. I have a lot of trouble with degenerative arthritis and at work I have a very fancy expensive sit to stand desk with dual monitors mounted and an electronic height control. At home I did not and in spite of my efforts to arrange things so I could work in comfort I could not get the right height and I've been suffering terrible pain, and taking maximum doses of certain OTC pain meds, which creates it's own stress as it is frightening to take so much of it. Usually I am on much lower maintenance dose of them.

I have prescription meds too..a muscle relaxer my doc assures me isn't addictive, I was taking it because it helps, but it makes me feel so dull and depressed I had to stop 3 days ago.

I have been gifted with a much pared down model of what I have at work. This was a personal gift and belongs to me, not work. I can set it to the exact height I need, and lower it to flat when I am not working. It will take time for my body to adjust and the pain to go away (I know from experience) but knowing there is hope I will feel better now helps a lot.

(that's my foot soak bucket elevating the lap top. It's the perfect height. )


----------



## catz4m8z

Cleo38 said:


> Luckily we have had such amazing help from the Macmillan nurses & the local hospice who I cannot praise enough for their help.


Sorry to hear you are going through this @Cleo38, its good you have found some support. Unfortunately cancer care is one of the areas that has really suffered during this crisis.



Cully said:


> I've often wondered what happened to this? I remember it was very topical years ago when it first came to light. I don't think many people knew about it until the This Morning presenter, Rustie Lee told the story of how her mum was affected by it and would have died without Rusties intervention.
> There was a lot of controversy about it at the time and I assume it's been replaced now.


We now have new 'end of life' paperwork, similar to the pathway really! People are assessed every day to see if they should be on this plan. It is designed for patients who are expected to pass away within the next 48hrs, not as a way to neglect patients.


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> I've often wondered what happened to this? I remember it was very topical years ago when it first came to light. I don't think many people knew about it until the This Morning presenter, Rustie Lee told the story of how her mum was affected by it and would have died without Rusties intervention.
> There was a lot of controversy about it at the time and I assume it's been replaced now.


Yes it has and after seeing my friends Dad go through that I was always classed as 'his adopted daughter. Definitely better more humane way to die, but then this is about Covid-19 and really what the media is having us believe to a point. Yes people will die in care homes, many do as they always have. Is it because lack of care, testing or otherwise.
I don't know but the media only occasionally shares good news stories like this.
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...avirus-rose-heeley-skegness-sheffield-4102199
If you don't want to read, a care home resident leaves hospital aged 100 recovered from Covid-19


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> I've often wondered what happened to this? I remember it was very topical years ago when it first came to light. I don't think many people knew about it until the This Morning presenter, Rustie Lee told the story of how her mum was affected by it and would have died without Rusties intervention.
> There was a lot of controversy about it at the time and I assume it's been replaced now.


I didnt know just how rough the liverpool pathway was, for the patient, until it was used in regard to my M-I-L, after she had a fall, hit her head and caused irreversible brain damage, confirmed by two other hospitals via a brain scan
I knew, after three previous strokes, when I was made her legal advocate, her wishes were that she undeniably wouldnt want to be kept alive, if there was no hope, and, as soon as i mentioned this, the liverpool pathway was brought into play.
boy was i naive about it and just how horrific it was
Even though i insisted on her being hydrated ( and boy they went through every single horror story in regard to that) because she had always said,
'dont let me go thirsty,'
they threatened me with court, if i didnt agree to the rest
'in her best interest'
4 days i sat by her bed, begging them to give her pain relief, as inch by inch she died. sometimes she would sit straight up in her bed screaming, sometimes she would try and get out of bed, sometimes she would rend at herself, her clothes, us, screaming all the time
this was because ALL medication is removed,
including pain meds and blood thinning meds,
so not only was she fatally brain damaged from the fall, her body was continuing to make painful clots within the vascular sysem and within her brain
I even had to go to the WSH chief, to get her moved into a private bay, not only for her dignity, but, the well being of other patients on the 8 bed ward, imagine laying there listening to all that happening

Im afraid imho, the Liverpool pathway was/is the most horrific way to die, slow, painful, undignified and much much longer, than necessary
I sat the every hour of that death watch with Betty in 2012
Im ashamed to say I prayed, hard, for every one of those hours, for a swift death to come
Until then, i never knew how, anyone, could wish for another human being to die
Had she been an animal, I, and the hospital, would have been prosecuted for allowing unnecessary cruelty and sufferring, ending in an agonising death

The liverpool pathway was discontinued in 2014, following a gov commissioned review, which heard that hospital staff, country wide, wrongly interpreted its guidance for *care* of the dying, leading to stories of patients who were left un- medicated, starved and deprived of fluids in their last days/ weeks of life

and so passed an horrific period of 'end of life care', which is not missed, by anyone


----------



## rona

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst she will not get better as such she can be made more comfortable, have meds to help with her delirium she is experiencing at times, meds to help improve her appetite as well as pain, & meds to help with her breathlessness all of which should have been sorted out y the hospital weeks ago. I simply cannot understand how people can be forgotten about so easily & left terrified in their final weeks/months.


I feel your pain. I'm quite shocked at lack of care for my friend with cancer and my niece who has only recently come out from being sectioned for several months. She's just been left to fend for herself, even though she's supposed to be in assisted living.

As to being left without water. This isn't just during corvid, it happened to me and my mother several years ago in normal wards


----------



## O2.0

I'm so sorry @Cleo38 I remember how worried you have been about your mum. I'll be thinking of you, and everyone else on this thread going through such rough times.

We really have it so good here I keep worrying that the bottom is going to fall out. Our state is in a little bubble it looks like, high rates everywhere around us, but we seem to be spared minus Charleston and the beach areas that are slightly harder hit. 
Our little rural county has only 2 deaths so far to covid-19 which seems surreal compared to what areas like NYC are experiencing. 
The governor has lifted many restrictions, schools are still closed, but restaurants are allowed to operate with outside seating only, the shopping malls are open now - with restrictions, and state parks and beaches are open again, also with restrictions.

Back at work this morning bagging and boxing up meals, some of us even daring for quick side hugs. Human contact! It's incredible how meaningful it is. 
Still can't find toilet paper anywhere but my friend is going to get me some at costco when they go. I love our little community!


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> I feel your pain. I'm quite shocked at lack of care for my friend with cancer and my niece who has only recently come out from being sectioned for several months. She's just been left to fend for herself, even though she's supposed to be in assisted living.
> 
> As to being left without water. This isn't just during corvid, it happened to me and my mother several years ago in normal wards


In Hungarian NHS hospitals you're expected to provide your own water, toilet paper, mugs plates and cutlery. The only time you're given a drink is for breakfast when they serve a herbal tea along with the bread and liver paste:Arghh


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungarian NHS hospitals you're expected to provide your own water, toilet paper, mugs plates and cutlery. The only time you're given a drink is for breakfast when they serve a herbal tea along with the bread and liver paste:Arghh


What do u do if to poorly?


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> I didnt know just how rough the liverpool pathway was, for the patient, until it was used in regard to my M-I-L,


Sorry that happened @mrs phas, sounds like a really horrible experience for your family.
I have heard some horror stories regarding the Liverpool Care Pathway but TBH I never had a problem with it. In the wards I worked on priority was always keeping the patient as painfree and comfortable as possible, then supporting the relatives and helping them cope.

Back to work tonight. Slightly nervous after 3wks off, last time I was in things seemed to change every day!


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> I didnt know just how rough the liverpool pathway was, for the patient, until it was used in regard to my M-I-L, after she had a fall, hit her head and caused irreversible brain damage, confirmed by two other hospitals via a brain scan
> I knew, after three previous strokes, when I was made her legal advocate, her wishes were that she undeniably wouldnt want to be kept alive, if there was no hope, and, as soon as i mentioned this, the liverpool pathway was brought into play.
> boy was i naive about it and just how horrific it was
> Even though i insisted on her being hydrated ( and boy they went through every single horror story in regard to that) because she had always said,
> 'dont let me go thirsty,'
> they threatened me with court, if i didnt agree to the rest
> 'in her best interest'
> 4 days i sat by her bed, begging them to give her pain relief, as inch by inch she died. sometimes she would sit straight up in her bed screaming, sometimes she would try and get out of bed, sometimes she would rend at herself, her clothes, us, screaming all the time
> this was because ALL medication is removed,
> including pain meds and blood thinning meds,
> so not only was she fatally brain damaged from the fall, her body was continuing to make painful clots within the vascular sysem and within her brain
> I even had to go to the WSH chief, to get her moved into a private bay, not only for her dignity, but, the well being of other patients on the 8 bed ward, imagine laying there listening to all that happening
> 
> Im afraid imho, the Liverpool pathway was/is the most horrific way to die, slow, painful, undignified and much much longer, than necessary
> I sat the every hour of that death watch with Betty in 2012
> Im ashamed to say I prayed, hard, for every one of those hours, for a swift death to come
> Until then, i never knew how, anyone, could wish for another human being to die
> Had she been an animal, I, and the hospital, would have been prosecuted for allowing unnecessary cruelty and sufferring, ending in an agonising death
> 
> The liverpool pathway was discontinued in 2014, following a gov commissioned review, which heard that hospital staff, country wide, wrongly interpreted its guidance for *care* of the dying, leading to stories of patients who were left un- medicated, starved and deprived of fluids in their last days/ weeks of life
> 
> and so passed an horrific period of 'end of life care', which is not missed, by anyone


I'd never heard of this until today, but this is what would have happened to my FIL if the family hadn't fought it. That was last year


----------



## Jim40

Just seen a re-written version of "Thank You Very Much by The Scaffold" on YouTube. It has a blue label and if you type in Thank You Very Much for the NHS it'll show up. You may have seen it already and some may even remember The Scaffold with the person in the trio, Mike McGear who had a famous brother. Those were the days.


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Sorry that happened @mrs phas, sounds like a really horrible experience for your family.
> I have heard some horror stories regarding the Liverpool Care Pathway but TBH I never had a problem with it. In the wards I worked on priority was always keeping the patient as painfree and comfortable as possible, then supporting the relatives and helping them cope.
> 
> Back to work tonight. Slightly nervous after 3wks off, last time I was in things seemed to change every day!


and i thank you for every day you go and put everyone else above yourself:Kiss ( sorry not a hug emoji)


----------



## Boxer123

catz4m8z said:


> Sorry that happened @mrs phas, sounds like a really horrible experience for your family.
> I have heard some horror stories regarding the Liverpool Care Pathway but TBH I never had a problem with it. In the wards I worked on priority was always keeping the patient as painfree and comfortable as possible, then supporting the relatives and helping them cope.
> 
> Back to work tonight. Slightly nervous after 3wks off, last time I was in things seemed to change every day!


I hope it goes well.


----------



## Cully

Jim40 said:


> Those were the days.


Yep, and that was the song his big bruv wrote for Mary Hopkins.


----------



## Jim40

Cully said:


> Yep, and that was the song his big bruv wrote for Mary Hopkins.


You obviously know who I'm speaking about. For me...great music.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> I don't think there was an official instruction to withdraw care, more a case of staff taking it upon themselves, because it's being spread about that it's ok to let the elderly go, especially if they already have issues and may not survive. Some older people are themselves saying not to waste anything on them if they get sick, even though it frightens them and they enjoy life. They don't want to be a burden.
> 
> I know of course that in some situations people are permitted to slip away peacefully and all we can do is try to make them comfortable, but euthanasia of humans isn't legal here, especially if said human doesn't want to go and I am concerned that some are being 'let go' unnecessarily, especially by staff who have the bare minimum of qualifications and don't particularly enjoy their work. Some people are not nice, we shouldn't be giving them even the vaguest of excuses. Her GP was horrified and it is being taken further.


Sadly, it's not that uncommon for elderly people in care homes to be admitted to hospital seriously ill and it turn out they were "only" dehydrated.

Breathlessness is a symptom of dehydration.

Maybe this incident had nothing to do with Covid but was down to bad practices in the care home?

Still needs investigating though.


----------



## Cully

Jim40 said:


> You obviously know who I'm speaking about. For me...great music.


Big fan at the time of them all. Don't laugh but I actually won a school talent competition singing her song. Blimey, showing my age lol.


----------



## Jim40

Cully said:


> Big fan at the time of them all. Don't laugh but I actually won a school talent competition singing her song. Blimey, showing my age lol.


I lived through that era as well so I'm showing my age too.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Dave S

Very interested in this new government covid app for smart phones but can any of you technical people explain this to me;

_If it works on Bluetooth and it can connect with someone who has it installed near to you, what is there to stop anyone hacking into your phone and taking your information?
_
There is probably a very simple explanation/button to push but being of the age where I do not get too involved with things technical like that I thought I would ask on here,


----------



## MilleD

Dave S said:


> Very interested in this new government covid app for smart phones but can any of you technical people explain this to me;
> 
> _If it works on Bluetooth and it can connect with someone who has it installed near to you, what is there to stop anyone hacking into your phone and taking your information?
> _
> There is probably a very simple explanation/button to push but being of the age where I do not get too involved with things technical like that I thought I would ask on here,


Don't you have to give permission for someone to access via Bluetooth? And they have to be in the vicinity.


----------



## Magyarmum

Very interesting article saying that Covid-19 was in France as far back as last December.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/...kGX6Dj0Kn0MCMjpJF3/wPGP3j&bt_ts=1588639412618

*French doctors say they found a Covid-19 patient from December*


----------



## JoanneF

I was wondering that about the bluetooth app too - if I try to connect, say, my car radio to my phone, I get a message to grant it permission. Will that be overridden? If so, is that safe? If not, will my phone be pinging every time I pass someone (at 2m +)?


----------



## MilleD

JoanneF said:


> I was wondering that about the bluetooth app too - if I try to connect, say, my car radio to my phone, I get a message to grant it permission. Will that be overridden? If so, is that safe? If not, will my phone be pinging every time I pass someone (at 2m +)?


It shouldn't override anything.

And I doubt it will ping. Imagine you would give it permission to store information it gathers about other app users locally. You probably wouldn't even know it was doing it. Then the only time that data is shared with anyone is if you become ill and the app is then used to trace those you've been in 'contact' with.

I'm not sure how the trial will work as they have such low infection rates there. Which apparently at a certain level is good for the tracing element of the app, but someone still needs to fall ill unfortunately.


----------



## Psygon

MilleD said:


> Don't you have to give permission for someone to access via Bluetooth? And they have to be in the vicinity.


It won't connect as such. Your app will send out a Bluetooth identifier to other people who have the app and vice versa. They won't actually connect to each other like you do when say connecting to your car.

Your phone and their phone would then keep a record that you met (or walked past each other). If either one of you falls ill and records that in the app then the other person would be notified.


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> It won't connect as such. Your app will send out a Bluetooth identifier to other people who have the app and vice versa. They won't actually connect to each other like you do when say connecting to your car.
> 
> Your phone and their phone would then keep a record that you met (or walked past each other). If either one of you falls ill and records that in the app then the other person would be notified.


So it shouldn't be possible for someone to piggyback the Bluetooth to get access to your phone?


----------



## Psygon

MilleD said:


> It shouldn't override anything.
> 
> And I doubt it will ping. Imagine you would give it permission to store information it gathers about other app users locally. You probably wouldn't even know it was doing it. Then the only time that data is shared with anyone is if you become ill and the app is then used to trace those you've been in 'contact' with.
> 
> I'm not sure how the trial will work as they have such low infection rates there. Which apparently at a certain level is good for the tracing element of the app, but someone still needs to fall ill unfortunately.


I'm not sure if people falling ill is actually necessary to know if the app works. I think being able to see how effectively it records meetings and how people record their wellness might be enough to know how well the app works.


----------



## Psygon

MilleD said:


> So it shouldn't be possible for someone to piggyback the Bluetooth to get access to your phone?


I doubt it. As it's not connecting it's just sending messages.

Of course I'm not a technical wizard so I couldn't say that for sure!

I'm not sure what data it records when it send the message ... Like does it save location data? Time? Day? Or just that hello we met type of message.


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> I'm not sure if people falling I'll is actually necessary to know if the app works. I think being able to see how effectively it records meetings and how people record their wellness might be enough to know how well the app works.


Good point.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> Very interesting article saying that Covid-19 was in France as far back as last December.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/health/france-coronavirus-december-death-intl/index.html?bt_ee=pN40neeaHmjUP4Dm8YH+kRIe7RE/d+djwAWRigJkGX6Dj0Kn0MCMjpJF3/wPGP3j&bt_ts=1588639412618
> 
> *French doctors say they found a Covid-19 patient from December*


That makes me think, that what I said early in this thread, that I may have had a mild dose of it over Christmas and the New year I've never felt so ill with a cough before, I know how I normally feel when I have a cough and it wasn't like that.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> That makes me think, that what I said early in this thread, that I may have had a mild dose of it over Christmas and the New year I've never felt so ill with a cough before, I know how I normally feel when I have a cough and it wasn't like that.


I think a lot of people feel that. I had two courses of steroids and a course of antibiotics in January to get rid of a cough that just wouldn't budge. But I didn't have a temperature so still not sure if it was a mild form of Covid or not. In some ways I hope it was, but I'm not willing to test the theory a I'm asthmatic.


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


>


 I'm so glad I had a short haircut just before lockdown. Premonition or what?


----------



## Psygon

Psygon said:


> I doubt it. As it's not connecting it's just sending messages.
> 
> Of course I'm not a technical wizard so I couldn't say that for sure!
> 
> I'm not sure what data it records when it send the message ... Like does it save location data? Time? Day? Or just that hello we met type of message.


Just had a look and this seems a fairly decent article about how the app works:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-tracking-app-contact-tracing



> The app itself works using Bluetooth signals. Bluetooth technology within phones, which has to be turned on at all times, broadcasts an identifier that is unique to that device. The identifier is essentially a random string of numbers that updates on a regular basis and doesn't include any personal information. When your phone is near another Bluetooth device the two will exchange their identifiers. A list of all the devices, in the form of their unique codes, are stored on your phone for 28 days. Nothing else happens unless a user indicates that they are experiencing coronavirus symptoms.


It goes on to say that it doesn't collect any other data.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I think a lot of people feel that. I had two courses of steroids and a course of antibiotics in January to get rid of a cough that just wouldn't budge. * But I didn't have a temperature so still not sure if it was a mild form of Covid or not.* In some ways I hope it was, but I'm not willing to test the theory a I'm asthmatic.


They do say in mild cases you don't necessarily have all the systems.


----------



## MilleD

Psygon said:


> Just had a look and this seems a fairly decent article about how the app works:
> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-tracking-app-contact-tracing
> 
> It goes on to say that it doesn't collect any other data.


Thanks for this. Yes, no location data collected. I have to say I'm quite surprised at that.


----------



## Dave S

Happy Paws2 said:


> That makes me think, that what I said early in this thread, that I may have had a mild dose of it over Christmas and the New year I've never felt so ill with a cough before, I know how I normally feel when I have a cough and it wasn't like that.


Same here. had a bad cough for ages and felt really bad.


----------



## rona

The main trouble with the app is, the whole area could be put in lock down because of a hypochondriac or hayfever or the common cold, until all tests are negative.
On the other hand, it could save 100s of lives


----------



## Lurcherlad

Psygon said:


> I doubt it. As it's not connecting it's just sending messages.
> 
> Of course I'm not a technical wizard so I couldn't say that for sure!
> 
> I'm not sure what data it records when it send the message ... Like does it save location data? Time? Day? Or just that hello we met type of message.


I think it will be just like the mobile masts can identify which phones were being used in a vicinity. They don't access data, conversations.


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Very interesting article saying that Covid-19 was in France as far back as last December.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/health/france-coronavirus-december-death-intl/index.html?bt_ee=pN40neeaHmjUP4Dm8YH+kRIe7RE/d+djwAWRigJkGX6Dj0Kn0MCMjpJF3/wPGP3j&bt_ts=1588639412618
> 
> *French doctors say they found a Covid-19 patient from December*


Whenever I hear of reports like this I can't help but wonder why it didn't start spreading then. After all, people were still moving about normally.
What changed?????


----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> Whenever I hear of reports like this I can't help but wonder why it didn't start spreading then. After all, people were still moving about normally.
> What changed?????


I think it was spreading but was treated was normal flu which hundreds of people die from every year, but the more it spread it has been identified as something far more serious.


----------



## Arny

rona said:


> The main trouble with the app is, the whole area could be put in lock down because of a hypochondriac or hayfever or the common cold, until all tests are negative.
> On the other hand, it could save 100s of lives


I heard an article on the Australian version of the app and for their's the person that notify's they've got covid then gets verified by the health care before they then let others know through the app. 
To try and prevent trolling.
You could still be constantly getting put in isolation if you're particularly unlucky and keep coming into contact with someone who has it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think it was spreading but was treated was normal flu which hundreds of people die from every year, but the more it spread it has been identified as something far more serious.


I think time will reveal that people have been infected with Covid-19 prior to last year, in fact it's quite possible there have been cases gong back over several years.

This is what happened with HIV and certainly the doctors at the hospital where I worked had seen their first cases as early as 1986. Although they warned the appropriate Health Departments that the virus would/could spread rapidly amongst the population, because there were so few cases their warning was ignored.

https://www.avert.org/professionals/history-hiv-aids/overview

*HISTORY OF HIV AND AIDS OVERVIEW*


----------



## Snoringbear

Any app or software you install will be ripping data and metrics off your device any time you use. Generally that’s agreed to in the long list of terms and conditions nobody reads but clicks to agree. 

I wouldn’t be worried about installing an app that helps control Covid. It’s for the greater good.


----------



## ForestWomble

What if you don't have a smart phone? - Someone suggested that I might have to get one or else just not be allowed to go out?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

ForestWomble said:


> What if you don't have a smart phone? - Someone suggested that I might have to get one or else just not be allowed to go out?


The app is not going to be compulsory, you wont have to stay in if you don't download it.


----------



## Cully

My phone is sooo slow at the moment, despite my deleting apps I hardly use etc. It's constantly telling me I'm running out of storage but I just can't afford a replacement yet. I'm a bit concerned about how this new app is going to affect it.


----------



## Snoringbear

Wouldn’t worry about not being allowed out without a smartphone. That’s not going to happen. It’s most likely that folk with a smartphone won’t install the app anyway.

Regarding app size, I’d hope it has a very small install size, I can’t see it being very large at all.


----------



## Cully

I was just looking at a BBC news report which I found interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52544247
I wonder if providing faeces samples at home would help with early detection of the presence of the virus to ensure any treatment is started early enough to prevent it becoming serious.


----------



## MilleD

Snoringbear said:


> Wouldn't worry about not being allowed out without a smartphone. That's not going to happen. *It's most likely that folk with a smartphone won't install the app anyway.*


Why?


----------



## Snoringbear

I didn’t word that well. What I should have said was that some people won’t install it. There does seem to be some apprehension, which I’ve seen in the news, regarding a reluctance to install due to fears of privacy.


----------



## MilleD

Snoringbear said:


> I didn't word that well. What I should have said was that some people won't install it. There does seem to be some apprehension, which I've seen in the news, regarding a reluctance to install due to fears of privacy.


Oh ok, that makes more sense. Thanks.


----------



## Snoringbear

Maybe it’s down to people thinking as it’s a government app, it’s going to be some kind of sinister surveillance thing. Personally, having followed the guidelines for isolation and social distancing over the last couple of months, I’m quite happy to employ whatever gets us back to normality and resolves the covid issue. If that means putting an app on my phone, I’m quite happy to do that


----------



## MilleD

Snoringbear said:


> Maybe it's down to people thinking as it's a government app, it's going to be some kind of sinister surveillance thing. Personally, having followed the guidelines for isolation and social distancing over the last couple of months, I'm quite happy to employ whatever gets us back to normality and resolves the covid issue. If that means putting an app on my phone, I'm quite happy to do that


Me too!


----------



## Happy Paws2

ForestWomble said:


> What if you don't have a smart phone? -* Someone suggested that I might have to get one or else just not be allowed to go out?*


Why should should you.

I don't have a smart phone and I don't want one, I have know idea how they work. 
I just a old simple one that just make calls nothing else, phone home if I need too that's all I need one for. I normally only go down the shops which is only 10 minutes away a couple of times a weeks on my scooter I don't use public transport.

So I shall still be going out!!!


----------



## Bisbow

My phone is so old I think Adam used it to keep tabs on Eve

I am not buying a new one, it would hardly get used


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> I think a lot of people feel that. I had two courses of steroids and a course of antibiotics in January to get rid of a cough that just wouldn't budge. But I didn't have a temperature so still not sure if it was a mild form of Covid or not. In some ways I hope it was, but I'm not willing to test the theory a I'm asthmatic.


Def not worth risking it. I thought the same thing (had a persistant cough, temperature, etc back in february that could of been covid) but turns out it was just a regular winter virus that hangs around every year!


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> Why should should you.
> 
> I don't have a smart phone and I don't want one, I have know idea how they work.
> I just a old simple one that just make calls nothing else, phone home if I need too that's all I need one for. I normally only go down the shops which is only 10 minutes away a couple of times a weeks on my scooter I don't use public transport.
> 
> So I shall still be going out!!!


I don't want to but the suggestion had me worried, so I asked that's all.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

The Imperial College scientist who advised the government on the need for social distancing, Neil Ferguson, doesn't seem to think the same rules apply to himself.

*Government scientist Neil Ferguson resigns after breaking lockdown rules to meet his married lover*


----------



## Snoringbear

Bisbow said:


> My phone is so old I think Adam used it to keep tabs on Eve
> 
> I am not buying a new one, it would hardly get used


So it's an Apple phone?


----------



## Snoringbear




----------



## Bisbow

Snoringbear said:


> So it's an Apple phone?


Very good
I like that


----------



## Snoringbear

Thanks probably one of my better dad jokes, the rest are awful so I won’t subject you all to them


----------



## kimthecat

Snoringbear said:


> So it's an Apple phone?


oh I had to think about that one but I get it now. :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

There was nasty flu going around two years ago , a lot of people I knew caught it . Its hard to know whether symptoms are Covid. I feel crap a lot of the time because of RA, it feels like flu but I know it isnt .


----------



## Jesthar

Dave S said:


> Very interested in this new government covid app for smart phones but can any of you technical people explain this to me;
> 
> _If it works on Bluetooth and it can connect with someone who has it installed near to you, what is there to stop anyone hacking into your phone and taking your information?
> _
> There is probably a very simple explanation/button to push but being of the age where I do not get too involved with things technical like that I thought I would ask on here,


I'm an IT specialist, and I will NOT be installing the government app. There are a number of reasons for that, but the most important are:


It doesn't actually work very well. Because the UK have chosen a centralised data approach (i.e. the app transfers your data as collected by the app to a centralised database for human scrutiny), neither Google (Android) or Apple will allow the app to run in the way the government want it to as it infringes too much on privacy. In fact, the the way the app works may even be illegal. But you'd have to have it open all the time with bluetooth on and the screen active with the app in the foreground for it to work the way it is intended to work. No-one is going to do that - for starters, you'd drain your battery in a matter of hours. Even then, it's hugely inefficient.

It generates a unique ID code permanently assigned to that app/phone, rather than a rotating code like decentralised apps, so you data is always uniquely identifiable to you. The decentralised solutions proposed by Apple/Android/some other countries would not do that.

*Once collected, the data will not be deleted, will be kept indefinitely, can be used for whatever purposes they want - and you have no right to ask for it to be deleted at any time*. This may include GPS data - they're being cagey about that one so far. It asks for your postcode when you install the app. Theoretically, information will only be sent if you push the 'I have symptoms' button - at the moment - but when you do it will send full data for the last 28 days to the central database.

It's not actually an "NHS" app. The people behind this app (and who will be getting your lovely data) are Marc and Ben Warner, who were deeply involved in the illegal Cambridge Analytica operations in 2016 - i.e. proven law breakers and privacy invaders with nefarious intentions. Want to bet they've changed their ways?

Put it this way, it comes to something when I trust Google and Apple more than something! Detailed but relatively easy to follow article here:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> There was nasty flu going around two years ago , a lot of people I knew caught it . Its hard to know whether symptoms are Covid. I feel crap a lot of the time because of RA, it feels like flu but I know it isnt .


Oh no. How are you this morning?


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I'm an IT specialist, and I will NOT be installing the government app. There are a number of reasons for that, but the most important are:
> 
> 
> It doesn't actually work very well. Because the UK have chosen a centralised data approach (i.e. the app transfers your data as collected by the app to a centralised database for human scrutiny), neither Google (Android) or Apple will allow the app to run in the way the government want it to as it infringes too much on privacy. In fact, the the way the app works may even be illegal. But you'd have to have it open all the time with bluetooth on and the screen active with the app in the foreground for it to work the way it is intended to work. No-one is going to do that - for starters, you'd drain your battery in a matter of hours. Even then, it's hugely inefficient.
> 
> It generates a unique ID code permanently assigned to that app/phone, rather than a rotating code like decentralised apps, so you data is always uniquely identifiable to you. The decentralised solutions proposed by Apple/Android/some other countries would not do that.
> 
> Once collected, the data will not be deleted, will be kept indefinitely, can be used for whatever purposes they want - and you have no right to ask for it to be deleted at any time. This may include GPS data - they're being cagey about that one so far. It asks for your postcode when you install the app. Theoretically, information will only be sent if you push the 'I have symptoms' button - at the moment - but when you do it will send full data for the last 28 days to the central database.
> 
> It's not actually an "NHS" app. The people behind this app (and who will be getting your lovely data) are Marc and Ben Warner, who were deeply involved in the illegal Cambridge Analytica operations in 2016 - i.e. proven law breakers and privacy invaders with nefarious intentions. Want to bet they've changed their ways?
> 
> Put it this way, it comes to something when I trust Google and Apple more than something! Detailed but relatively easy to follow article here:
> 
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/


The article on Wired said they won't be collecting location data.

Exactly what could they do with any data that is collected on who you were 'near'?


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> There was nasty flu going around two years ago , a lot of people I knew caught it . Its hard to know whether symptoms are Covid. I feel crap a lot of the time because of RA, it feels like flu but I know it isnt .


How are feeling better this morning, better I hope.


----------



## SbanR

How to wear a mask

https://nypost.com/2020/05/04/covidiot-says-she-cut-hole-in-mask-to-make-it-easier-to-breathe/


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> How to wear a mask
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/05/04/covidiot-says-she-cut-hole-in-mask-to-make-it-easier-to-breathe/


Words fail me:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> Words fail me:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


Funny, I thought of you when I first viewed it


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> How to wear a mask
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/05/04/covidiot-says-she-cut-hole-in-mask-to-make-it-easier-to-breathe/


With not even a hint of irony.....


----------



## Bisbow

Why are people surprised we have the biggest death toll in Europe

When you consider the size of our small island and the number of people living on it, it does not surprise me at all

It makes sense that larger countries with a smaller population have less deaths to me


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> Why are people surprised we have the biggest death toll in Europe
> 
> When you consider the size of our small island and the number of people living on it, it does not surprise me at all
> 
> It makes sense that larger countries with a smaller population have less deaths to me


Does to me too. We are so overcrowded here that a virus passes quickly which is why big towns and cities have been more widely affected then the countryside where the population is more sparse.

New Zealand reacted very quickly, slammed all the doors shut and kept people in. However there are only about 5 million people living in NZ and 4 million of those live in the north island. I'm sure @McKenzie will correct me if these facts are wrong. The South Island felt absolutely deserted when we were there two years ago, you could drive for miles and not see another vehicle in some areas, so it's no wonder they were able to control the spread of the virus quickly.


----------



## O2.0

I agree with the crowding issue. NYC has been terribly badly hit, yet in our little county of 67,000 people, we've had a grand total of 2 deaths and as of today 42 confirmed cases. I'm sure we've had more than that as there is also very little testing, but no one seems to be getting sick that we know. It's not a 'visible' thing if you will. 
So I did some googling, and NYC has a population density of 26,403 people per square mile. Our little rural county has a population density of 60 people per square mile and I'm thinking that's generous. Out where I live, there are 5 homes spread out over a thousand acres (we back up to timber company land).

I don't know what the solution if any there is, but I do know how thankful I am that we don't live in a densely populated area. I wish I could bring some vulnerable people living in crowded areas out here and take care of them here.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/health/why-people-dont-wear-masks-wellness-trnd/index.html
In other news, I came across this article today and read it with interest as I'm not wearing a mask and haven't figured out what my objection to a mask is. If I'm told I have to, I will, but no one has said it's mandatory, so I'm not.
There are a lot of competitive quarantine-ers on FB bitching about people not wearing masks and I'm really trying to figure out what *my* psychology behind not wearing one is. 
It's not a freedom thing for me, I read that part and didn't feel like it applied. The rebel part maybe. Those posts on FB that say "share if you agree" no matter how much I agree, I won't share just because it said I should - or worse those ones that say "I bet no one will share" ugh those bug me! So yeah, part of me is obviously still a petulant child who defaults to "no" 

But it's also true that for most of March we were told to NOT wear masks and leave them to the healthcare and frontline workers who truly needed them. In trying to convince the general public to not stockpile masks we were also told that they would be counterproductive as they would cause you to touch your face more, that people weren't wearing them properly, that the virus goes right through them, that surgical masks were never meant to contain virus droplets, and that they'll just end up in the trash anyway - OMG don't get me started on the litter of masks and gloves!!!

But now we've done a 180 and masks are the way to go.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We broke social distancing today :Jawdrop

I was in the garden putting the cover on my reclining chair, lost me balance and landed up sat on the floor, struggled to try and get up OH tried but couldn't help I was at the wrong angle, so he went next door and asked our new neighbours for help. He came round with his son and between them they to lifted me straight back onto to my feet. Bless them, they were very worried that I'd really hurt myself but I've only pulled my shoulder and hurt my right wrist when I trying to pull myself up. I really must be more careful.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> We broke social distancing today :Jawdrop
> 
> I was in the garden putting the cover on my reclining chair, lost me balance and landed up sat on the floor, struggled to try and get up OH tried but couldn't help I was at the wrong angle, so he went next door and asked our new neighbours for help. He came round with his son and between them they to lifted me straight back onto to my feet. Bless them, they were very worried that I'd really hurt myself but I've only pulled my shoulder and hurt my right wrist when I trying to pull myself up. I really must be more careful.


Sounds like you had no choice. I hope you feel better soon and are not to sore.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> But now we've done a 180 and masks are the way to go.


I think wearing a mask isnt really to protect you from the coronavirus....its more to prevent you passing it along as it will stop people from coughing into the air and spreading little germy particles everywhere!
and TBH if you live in a sparsely populated area where social distancing is easy then I dont think its that important. Where it will help is in built up areas, shops, public transport, etc.


----------



## kimthecat

@Happy Paws2 Hope you ok now. Sometimes you have no choice. your new neighbours sound nice.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> We broke social distancing today :Jawdrop
> 
> I was in the garden putting the cover on my reclining chair, lost me balance and landed up sat on the floor, struggled to try and get up OH tried but couldn't help I was at the wrong angle, so he went next door and asked our new neighbours for help. He came round with his son and between them they to lifted me straight back onto to my feet. Bless them, they were very worried that I'd really hurt myself but I've only pulled my shoulder and hurt my right wrist when I trying to pull myself up. I really must be more careful.


Glad you're ok and you've landed yourselves with nice neighbours.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> I agree with the crowding issue. NYC has been terribly badly hit, yet in our little county of 67,000 people, we've had a grand total of 2 deaths and as of today 42 confirmed cases. I'm sure we've had more than that as there is also very little testing, but no one seems to be getting sick that we know. It's not a 'visible' thing if you will.
> So I did some googling, and NYC has a population density of 26,403 people per square mile. Our little rural county has a population density of 60 people per square mile and I'm thinking that's generous. Out where I live, there are 5 homes spread out over a thousand acres (we back up to timber company land).
> 
> I don't know what the solution if any there is, but I do know how thankful I am that we don't live in a densely populated area. I wish I could bring some vulnerable people living in crowded areas out here and take care of them here.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/health/why-people-dont-wear-masks-wellness-trnd/index.html
> In other news, I came across this article today and read it with interest as I'm not wearing a mask and haven't figured out what my objection to a mask is. If I'm told I have to, I will, but no one has said it's mandatory, so I'm not.
> There are a lot of competitive quarantine-ers on FB bitching about people not wearing masks and I'm really trying to figure out what *my* psychology behind not wearing one is.
> It's not a freedom thing for me, I read that part and didn't feel like it applied. The rebel part maybe. Those posts on FB that say "share if you agree" no matter how much I agree, I won't share just because it said I should - or worse those ones that say "I bet no one will share" ugh those bug me! So yeah, part of me is obviously still a petulant child who defaults to "no"
> 
> But it's also true that for most of March we were told to NOT wear masks and leave them to the healthcare and frontline workers who truly needed them. In trying to convince the general public to not stockpile masks we were also told that they would be counterproductive as they would cause you to touch your face more, that people weren't wearing them properly, that the virus goes right through them, that surgical masks were never meant to contain virus droplets, and that they'll just end up in the trash anyway - OMG don't get me started on the litter of masks and gloves!!!
> 
> But now we've done a 180 and masks are the way to go.


It's quite a good article to be honest..
I thought that mask wearing wasn't crucial to be honest when listening about the science. When seeing places such as South Korea, China its always been cultural and always been either to protect others to stop getting a cold from them or pollution issues.

The 'panic mask wearers here' it was just a bit mad at first. First it was the odd one, which to me had me thinking have they got symptoms or not. Now it's becoming the new norm round here where a lot wear masks shopping where I now have been swayed by science.

It's the asymptomatic symptoms that worry me. Now I generally keep myself to myself shop, but I do wait in lines to queue for bits following social distancing. Am terrible for offering to help people as that's just normal, so keeping myself to myself isn't strictly true. It's the inside supermarkets which is taking far longer now that I worry about. They are breeding grounds I would say for any virus which of course never bothered anyone till Covid-19.

My district is low for cases and deaths too. The worry is things will be lifting soon. Am not worried about dog walking, plenty of space per se in the outside but shopping I am.

Have got my friend to make me masks. If Dr John Campbell is happy with home made masks so am I. She's made 100s bless her, many for people who are carers in a variety of settings who can't get them. Of course the standard is lower than hospital setting.

To be honest they are ready, and haven't collected them yet, or asked her to post them. So I guessing am dragging my feet. Probably feel self conscious in some ways but feel better know I can't spread the virus as easily especially if I sneeze due to hay fever.


----------



## Magyarmum

Hope your sore shoulder and wrist wont stop you from getting a good nights sleep. 

Do you have some Arnica to rub on them? I swear by it!

The last time I slipped and landed on my bum, Grisha jumped on me and bounced up and down on my tummy, and Gwylim kept headbutting my face!

Lot of help the pair of them were!


----------



## Psygon

Jesthar said:


> I'm an IT specialist, and I will NOT be installing the government app. There are a number of reasons for that, but the most important are:
> 
> 
> It doesn't actually work very well. Because the UK have chosen a centralised data approach (i.e. the app transfers your data as collected by the app to a centralised database for human scrutiny), neither Google (Android) or Apple will allow the app to run in the way the government want it to as it infringes too much on privacy. In fact, the the way the app works may even be illegal. But you'd have to have it open all the time with bluetooth on and the screen active with the app in the foreground for it to work the way it is intended to work. No-one is going to do that - for starters, you'd drain your battery in a matter of hours. Even then, it's hugely inefficient.
> 
> It generates a unique ID code permanently assigned to that app/phone, rather than a rotating code like decentralised apps, so you data is always uniquely identifiable to you. The decentralised solutions proposed by Apple/Android/some other countries would not do that.
> 
> Once collected, the data will not be deleted, will be kept indefinitely, can be used for whatever purposes they want - and you have no right to ask for it to be deleted at any time. This may include GPS data - they're being cagey about that one so far. It asks for your postcode when you install the app. Theoretically, information will only be sent if you push the 'I have symptoms' button - at the moment - but when you do it will send full data for the last 28 days to the central database.
> 
> It's not actually an "NHS" app. The people behind this app (and who will be getting your lovely data) are Marc and Ben Warner, who were deeply involved in the illegal Cambridge Analytica operations in 2016 - i.e. proven law breakers and privacy invaders with nefarious intentions. Want to bet they've changed their ways?
> 
> Put it this way, it comes to something when I trust Google and Apple more than something! Detailed but relatively easy to follow article here:
> 
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/


I'm sure it only collects the first part of your postcode when you install the app. Supposedly to help the NHS understand where there are any hotspots.


----------



## O2.0

Oh Happy Paws glad you're okay!!



catz4m8z said:


> I think wearing a mask isnt really to protect you from the coronavirus....its more to prevent you passing it along as it will stop people from coughing into the air and spreading little germy particles everywhere!
> and TBH if you live in a sparsely populated area where social distancing is easy then I dont think its that important. Where it will help is in built up areas, shops, public transport, etc.


Back when they (whoever "they" is) was trying to prevent us going out and buying up all masks I remember seeing all sorts of articles about how surgical and cloth masks don't stop the spread of those particles. The particles go right through them. 
I think the article I posted even has a video with a simulated cough with and without a mask and the particles are still getting out, just not traveling as far with the mask.

If I'm told to wear one, I will definitely.

I'm not afraid of getting sick, I'm not vulnerable, I don't live with anyone vulnerable. 
I'm much more afraid of being an asymptomatic carrier and giving it to someone vulnerable. If masks help great, but I would feel a lot better if we could get testing working effectively and efficiently. If I'm a carrier I won't be wearing a mask and still going out in public, I'll be isolating until I'm no longer contagious.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> It's quite a good article to be honest..
> I thought that mask wearing wasn't crucial to be honest when listening about the science. When seeing places such as South Korea, China its always been cultural and always been either to protect others to stop getting a cold from them or pollution issues.
> 
> The 'panic mask wearers here' it was just a bit mad at first. First it was the odd one, which to me had me thinking have they got symptoms or not. Now it's becoming the new norm round here where a lot wear masks shopping where I now have been swayed by science.
> 
> It's the asymptomatic symptoms that worry me. Now I generally keep myself to myself shop, but I do wait in lines to queue for bits following social distancing. Am terrible for offering to help people as that's just normal, so keeping myself to myself isn't strictly true. It's the inside supermarkets which is taking far longer now that I worry about. They are breeding grounds I would say for any virus which of course never bothered anyone till Covid-19.
> 
> My district is low for cases and deaths too. The worry is things will be lifting soon. Am not worried about dog walking, plenty of space per se in the outside but shopping I am.
> 
> Have got my friend to make me masks. If Dr John Campbell is happy with home made masks so am I. She's made 100s bless her, many for people who are carers in a variety of settings who can't get them. Of course the standard is lower than hospital setting.
> 
> To be honest they are ready, and haven't collected them yet, or asked her to post them. So I guessing am dragging my feet. Probably feel self conscious in some ways but feel better know I can't spread the virus as easily especially if I sneeze due to hay fever.


I have to admit, although I'd already bought masks, I was putting off wearing them because I felt self conscious. It was only after I spoke first to my son and then the boys trainer both of whom advocated wearing masks I felt happier, and of course shortly afterwards wearing masks was made compulsory in Hungary .The only problem is having small face, wearing a mask isn't very comfortable as it covers nearly all my face and if I look down I can't see a thing when I'm wearing one!

Obviously I don't wear one when someone comes to my gate as I'm able to control the distance I stand from them, but on the two occasions I've been shopping I do wear one AND make sure I maintain a distance from other people. I wear disposable gloves as well but that's because I have permanently sore fingers from allergies and the one thing I'm not certain about is whether you can become infected through cuts and sore, which with the HIV virus you could be.

Funnily enough I'm far more conscious of what I touch with my hands and for some reason always have been. Since the virus came on the scene, even when I'm at home I must wash my hands about 100 times a day! I have a hand sanitiser spray in car boot as well as a 500 ml bottle next to the driver's seat, plus a box of gloves and tissues so I can disinfect my hands when I'm shopping. A bit OTT maybe but "dirty" hands is something I just can't bear!

.


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> Funnily enough I'm far more conscious of what I touch with my hands and for some reason always have been. Since the virus came on the scene, even when I'm at home I must wash my hands about 100 times a day! I have a hand sanitiser spray in car boot as well as a 500 ml bottle next to the driver's seat, plus a box of gloves and tissues so I can disinfect my hands when I'm shopping. A bit OTT maybe but "dirty" hands is something I just can't bear!


What Ive found shocking is how often I touch my face. Once you're aware of it you realiese that you're doing it all the time!:Shy
Ive always been good with handwashing though...but I think that generally pet owners do wash their hands alot as pets can be stanky little b**gers!:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Oh Happy Paws glad you're okay!!
> 
> Back when they (whoever "they" is) was trying to prevent us going out and buying up all masks I remember seeing all sorts of articles about how surgical and cloth masks don't stop the spread of those particles. The particles go right through them.
> I think the article I posted even has a video with a simulated cough with and without a mask and the particles are still getting out, just not traveling as far with the mask.
> 
> If I'm told to wear one, I will definitely.
> 
> I'm not afraid of getting sick, I'm not vulnerable, I don't live with anyone vulnerable.
> I'm much more afraid of being an asymptomatic carrier and giving it to someone vulnerable. If masks help great, but I would feel a lot better if we could get testing working effectively and efficiently. If I'm a carrier I won't be wearing a mask and still going out in public, I'll be isolating until I'm no longer contagious.


As Andrew Cuomo will tell you wearing a mask is not for your benefit it should be out of respect for other people. In other words you should assume you're a-symptomatic and wearing a mask prevents you from passing the virus onto other people.

I watched this the other night on TV and it's quite staggering how far particles from coughing heavily can travel - up to 8 feet - that's 2 feet more than the present social distance recommendations

http://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/mechanical-cough-coronavirus.php

*STAY 6 FEET APART. SIMULATED COUGH REVEALS THAT MAY NOT BE ENOUGH*
.


----------



## lullabydream

Another one on mask wearing, mines hand made, so I know it's still classed as single use to be washed and dryed after use. 

Some of the masks am seeing people wearing are filthy. Neither use nor ornament I would think.


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> As Andrew Cuomo will tell you wearing a mask is not for your benefit it should be out of respect for other people. In other words you should assume you're a-symptomatic and wearing a mask prevents you from passing the virus onto other people.


That's the thing though, a mask *doesn't* prevent you from spreading the virus if you're an asymptomatic carrier. You may not spread the droplets as far, but those droplets are escaping the mask. 
I would much much rather they ramp up testing so that we know for sure who is contagious and who isn't. 
Even better, let's ramp up antibody testing and know who is not only not contagious, but not likely to be in the near future either.

And wear masks too, sure. But the mask seems almost like a cop-out. We need more testing, more access to testing. Not more masks. We need to know who is sick so that they can isolate completely.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> What Ive found shocking is how often I touch my face. Once you're aware of it you realiese that you're doing it all the time!:Shy


I can't stop


----------



## O2.0

@Magyarmum this article is one of the ones that I've read. Essentially the mask doesn't hurt, but it's not the help we think it is. 
https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducing-coronavirus-spread.html

Which goes back to testing. We need to test, we need to make testing accessible, affordable, and quick.


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve had to tie up my hair and fringe as they make me touch my face. I walk around muttering to myself ‘don’t touch your face’ 

I went to Waitrose today to get shopping for parents, my dad is very nervous and my mum too blasé so I’ve intervened to stop them arguing. I queued and used the scan thing which was okay if complicated but had to ask several people to stay away from me, several couples (I thought it was one person per trolley?) and there was a group of three staff mucking about which didn’t seem right. Anyway, parents shopping done - waved at them and cried all the way home.

They’ve managed to get a home delivery from Tesco at the end of the month. It makes me very glad to live in the city as we’ve got loads of local shops to help us, they have very few doing deliveries in their remote village.


----------



## Jesthar

lullabydream said:


> Some of the masks am seeing people wearing are filthy. Neither use nor ornament I would think.


Viruses don't usually last long on porous surfaces, though. It dries them out. If it's been a day or two since the last use, it's probably fine virus wise, even if it looks minging 



O2.0 said:


> Which goes back to testing. We need to test, we need to make testing accessible, affordable, and quick.


Testing also has its problems, in that unless you test positive, the test is only good for up to the moment you took the test. You could have been infected after that, but you'll never know until you get tested again.

And there's also resources - unless a nearly infallible home test becomes available, you're quickly going to exhaust the medical staff who process the tests, and it's not a job that can be reliably done by untrained people. Friend of mine used to work in a hospital lab, it's no place for casual assistance.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Viruses don't usually last long on porous surfaces, though. It dries them out. If it's been a day or two since the last use, it's probably fine virus wise, even if it looks minging


Would be more concerned how they were handling them to put on and off for safety sake.. Hence my comment. Must be a cluster fest of viruses of all sorts into the environment.

Take my OH shopping and all I hear is he's not got his mask on properly, that won't have a seal as those wearing ones more used for DIY purposes aren't wearing them right. OH is quite particular on Health and Safety in engineering where same masks are used. You would soon know about it actually working in certain environments they are on wrong but not so much as a virus preventer


----------



## lullabydream

@O2.0 I wouldn't use my mask and think that makes me infallible. I would prefer to use it in places such as supermarkets here where whatever they do, social distancing seems to be forgotten at the door till you queue. I try my best, still hand washing as much as always.

Willing to participate in the UK apps system, which is supposed to help trace whose got the virus and contact you if you have been in contact to isolate.

I really don't know when antibody testing will be available, still studying here. Would say they need this to be more a longitudinal study so can help with maybe vaccine protocol too.


----------



## Jaf

I won’t be wearing a mask unless it’s compulsory. I think they make people act stupidly, I keep seeing people pulling the mask down to talk so what’s the point.


----------



## JarvisMillan

A somewhat unrelated question, if you look at statistical data across Europe, say in Germany, there is a lot of infection cases but there is also a lot of people who recovered; vis-a-vis the situation in the UK where according Euronews, we had like 300+ people fully recovered as at yesterday. 

How is that even a thing? Is that the way recovery cases are counted up? or different definitions as to what constitutes 'full recovery'?


----------



## O2.0

Jaf said:


> I won't be wearing a mask unless it's compulsory. I think they make people act stupidly, I keep seeing people pulling the mask down to talk so what's the point.


I think they give a false sense of security. 
The livescience article I posted talks about the importance of continuing with all precautions, hand washing, social distancing, isolating if you don't feel well....


----------



## lorilu

People keep forgetting that a common face covering doesn't protect the wearer, it protects everyone else from the wearer's potential germs. My state has mandatory mask use when in public places where you are likely to encounter another person.

I wear a home made face covering made from a cut up piece of a t shirt and pony tail holders. It's thick and fits snugly, so none of my breathing droplets are getting out. I walk around half blind though because my glasses promptly fog up as soon as I put it on. I only go out to shop and to the post office once every 2 weeks so it isn't a big deal, in spite of my claustrophobia. It's the least of my worries.

What I struggle with is how fortunate I am. I have my job and paycheck. I work from home and stay safe. I go for a fresh lovely walk every day in a little woods nearby, I almost never see anyone on the trails. I have enough food both for myself and my cats. Even enough toilet paper! I'm even in the process of buying a house. (It's a wreck of a house but that's what I can afford. Sure I'd like something move in ready and nicer, but I don't want to spend every penny on a mortgage payment, I want to be able to live, too)

Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> The article on Wired said they won't be collecting location data.
> 
> Exactly what could they do with any data that is collected on who you were 'near'?


With the first half of your postcode, a unique ID (stored on the central server from the time you install the app), the exact make/model of your phone (yes, the app records that when you install it, too) and - this is the critical part - access to a load of other datasets to cross-reference with? You'd be amazed.

For example, do you know what Amazon considers their most valuable asset? It's not the physical products they sell. It's the data they collect on you. They are, essentially, a data harvesting company that happens to sell products too. And not even that so much any more - since 2015 third party vendors have sold most of the physical products bought on Amazon, not Amazon themselves. But Amazon get all of your data.

Now, obviously it records product searches and what you buy, and how you navigate through the website. But there is so much more. Got a Kindle? They have the data on not only the e-books you have bought and read, but the time and screen location of every single tap of the screen you have ever made.

Got an Alexa? Not only do they have data records of all your interactions, they have the voice recordings of those interactions too - even the accidental triggers. Same with Fire TV and Ring doorbells - all logged.

And that's only a fraction of the data they have - even before they start on cross-referencing and analysis.

Now, Amazon data isn't directly applicable to the NHS, of course. But I'm pretty sure the government has one or two databases kicking around...  Not to mention the power to get companies to give them data. So as things stand, I won't be playing ball with this one.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Sounds like you had no choice. I hope you feel better soon and are not to sore.





kimthecat said:


> @Happy Paws2 Hope you ok now. Sometimes you have no choice. your new neighbours sound nice.





Cully said:


> Glad you're ok and you've landed yourselves with nice neighbours.





Magyarmum said:


> Hope your sore shoulder and wrist wont stop you from getting a good nights sleep.
> 
> Do you have some Arnica to rub on them? I swear by it!
> 
> The last time I slipped and landed on my bum, Grisha jumped on me and bounced up and down on my tummy, and Gwylim kept headbutting my face!
> 
> Lot of help the pair of them were!





O2.0 said:


> Oh Happy Paws glad you're okay!!


Thank you.... I not too bad this morning expect the lower part of my back has started to hurt but that's where I landed so it bound too hurt of a while, everything else seems OK this morning.

Yes our new neighbour does seem nice, we haven't had more to do with him yet, not the best way to get to get to know someone on your knees grappling with a chair trying to get up.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yes our new neighbour does seem nice, we haven't had more to do with him yet, not the best way to get to get to know someone on your knees grappling with a chair trying to get up.


Glad you are ok. 
I think it's the perfect way to meet a new neighbour. It show's how caring they are and that if you are in trouble at all and need help, they are willing to put themselves out to help, even go above and beyond to help


----------



## rona

lorilu said:


> What I struggle with is how fortunate I am..


What about your good fortune do you struggle with, is it guilt?



lorilu said:


> Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


Forgive me but I'm not very aware or attuned to mental health. It's a hard thing to discuss with other people without upsetting them or putting my foot in it because of my ignorance. 
Please don't answer if it stresses you in any way

Is this the explanation of your struggle with your good fortune or is the stress and anxiety over little things just something that would happen anyway? 
What type of things worry you?


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> I can't stop


I put gloves on the other day to stop me touching stuff but still scratched my nose! :Banghead


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> With the first half of your postcode, a unique ID (stored on the central server from the time you install the app), the exact make/model of your phone (yes, the app records that when you install it, too) and - this is the critical part - access to a load of other datasets to cross-reference with? You'd be amazed.
> 
> For example, do you know what Amazon considers their most valuable asset? It's not the physical products they sell. It's the data they collect on you. They are, essentially, a data harvesting company that happens to sell products too. And not even that so much any more - since 2015 third party vendors have sold most of the physical products bought on Amazon, not Amazon themselves. But Amazon get all of your data.
> 
> Now, obviously it records product searches and what you buy, and how you navigate through the website. But there is so much more. Got a Kindle? They have the data on not only the e-books you have bought and read, but the time and screen location of every single tap of the screen you have ever made.
> 
> Got an Alexa? Not only do they have data records of all your interactions, they have the voice recordings of those interactions too - even the accidental triggers. Same with Fire TV and Ring doorbells - all logged.
> 
> And that's only a fraction of the data they have - even before they start on cross-referencing and analysis.
> 
> Now, Amazon data isn't directly applicable to the NHS, of course. But I'm pretty sure the government has one or two databases kicking around...  Not to mention the power to get companies to give them data. So as things stand, I won't be playing ball with this one.


Yeah, I get all that. And this probably sounds flippant, but I honestly don't care.

I never ask Alexa to tell me how to murder someone for instance. If they are interested in how often I enquire about the weather then so be it.

There's ways and means of organisations data gathering that we probably haven't the first clue about, but to worry about that sort of thing is to send yourself crazy.

Besides, your card is marked now you've just typed that post, they will plainly think you have something to hide


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


Stress, anxiety and depression aren't things you can control with an on/off switch though are they? It's not based on how good you have it, or someone else might not.

Be kinder to yourself x


----------



## Happy Paws2

It's not that we went out very often before, a nip down to the shops every few days, OH going down to the bank, neither of us is fit enough to go very far now a days. It's fact that we have told to stay in, makes you want to go out.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Oh no. How are you this morning?


Sorry I missed this. I'm fine . Im on steroids which helps . Its part and parcel of RA . I never know how I will feel each day . Hopefully I will have the infusion treatment I was due to have at easter later in the year


----------



## kimthecat

lorilu said:


> Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


Im sorry you feel so bad. Depression and anxiety are awful things. I would consider Depression to be an illness, you dont have to have a reason to be depressed so , as has been said , be kind to yourself.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's not that we went out very often before, a nip down to the shops every few days, OH going down to the bank, neither of us is fit enough to go very far now a days. It's fact that we have told to stay in, makes you want to go out.


Is your bank open or is your hubby just using the cash machine outside?


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> Yeah, I get all that. And this probably sounds flippant, but I honestly don't care.
> 
> I never ask Alexa to tell me how to murder someone for instance. If they are interested in how often I enquire about the weather then so be it.
> 
> There's ways and means of organisations data gathering that we probably haven't the first clue about, but to worry about that sort of thing is to send yourself crazy.
> 
> Besides, your card is marked now you've just typed that post, they will plainly think you have something to hide


I've had people comment that my Alexa is collecting data on me & monitoring phone calls & tbh I couldn't care less, I pity anyone that would have to sift through data with my boring life! I think there is a setting that you switch off to prevent any data collection but I got bored reading how to do it so don't think I bothered


----------



## Magyarmum

An interesting article on a possible treatment for Covid-19.

https://rmx.news/article/article/hu...gWTzoG_p7R2DX335AUNaCFztkDERDkH1pMo2wna7fzkhI
*
Hungarian's new coronavirus treatment could save many lives during pandemic*


----------



## lorilu

rona said:


> Is this the explanation of your struggle with your good fortune or is the stress and anxiety over little things just something that would happen anyway?
> What type of things worry you?


No it's a good question. I am prone to anxiety in any case. I used to struggle with depression, took meds for years, but haven't had any real problems with depression in many years. But the anxiety is very bad, even in "normal" times. So I don't know why I should expect myself to feel any different now, but somehow I do expect it. I feel like I should be able to cope, since so many others have much worse things to cope with. I "should" be cheerful and positive, not waking up with a pit of dread in my stomach every day. I know it's not rational but I can't seem to break the feeling I "should".


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> I've had people comment that my Alexa is collecting data on me & monitoring phone calls & tbh I couldn't care less, I pity anyone that would have to sift through data with my boring life! I think there is a setting that you switch off to prevent any data collection but I got bored reading how to do it so don't think I bothered


I'm more amused you think they HAVEN'T sifted through your data multiple times with a fine tooth comb 

Let's take Alexa again. Every time you interact with Alexa, they not only record the request and the response, they process that data in dozens of ways to ge a better understanding of your needs, desires, habits, thought patterns etc., then cross reference it with dozens of other data sets to refine their knowledge (weather, location, consumor history etc.). That includes, for example, automatically analysing your voice pattern to work out what mood you were in when you made the request.

I appreciate that all this is probably going to come across as though I'm a bit paranoid - trust me, I'm not. I just understand how it all works. People who come to my home are always surprised that I don't have any smart devices - well, technically I do as I was bought a Google Mini for Christmas several years ago, but it's still in the box. My TV doesn't have smart features. My PVR does, but isn't connected to the net. I only have a smartphone because I need one for Magnificat, really. I AM on Facebook, but I'm careful how I use it. Partly all this is because I live pretty simply anyway, but mainly it's because I know the power of all the data they collect. I deal with small examples of these kinds of data sets in the day job, and you would be amazed how much you can work out from seemingly unconnected information.

Anyway, as I say I'm not out to scare anyone. Just want people to be aware how much power lies within the data we think of as trivial


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jesthar said:


> I'm more amused you think they HAVEN'T sifted through your data multiple times with a fine tooth comb
> 
> *Let's take Alexa again. * Every time you interact with Alexa, they not only record the request and the response, they process that data in dozens of ways to ge a better understanding of your needs, desires, habits, thought patterns etc., then cross reference it with dozens of other data sets to refine their knowledge (weather, location, consumor history etc.). That includes, for example, automatically analysing your voice pattern to work out what mood you were in when you made the request.


That's why I wouldn't have one in my house, it's bad enough that they can trace where I am when I'm using a credit card.

They can't trace my phone as it's a cheap pay-as-as-you, not once of these posh smart things where can trace where you are all the time if they wanted to.


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> I'm more amused you think they HAVEN'T sifted through your data multiple times with a fine tooth comb
> 
> Let's take Alexa again. Every time you interact with Alexa, they not only record the request and the response, they process that data in dozens of ways to ge a better understanding of your needs, desires, habits, thought patterns etc., then cross reference it with dozens of other data sets to refine their knowledge (weather, location, consumor history etc.). That includes, for example, automatically analysing your voice pattern to work out what mood you were in when you made the request.
> 
> I appreciate that all this is probably going to come across as though I'm a bit paranoid - trust me, I'm not. I just understand how it all works. People who come to my home are always surprised that I don't have any smart devices - well, technically I do as I was bought a Google Mini for Christmas several years ago, but it's still in the box. My TV doesn't have smart features. My PVR does, but isn't connected to the net. I only have a smartphone because I need one for Magnificat, really. I AM on Facebook, but I'm careful how I use it. Partly all this is because I live pretty simply anyway, but mainly it's because I know the power of all the data they collect. I deal with small examples of these kinds of data sets in the day job, and you would be amazed how much you can work out from seemingly unconnected information.
> 
> Anyway, as I say I'm not out to scare anyone. Just want people to be aware how much power lies within the data we think of as trivial


Oh, I'm completely aware of how my data is probably being used not just through my Alexa but lots of social media sites, etc but I'm honesty not fussed. I know I have ads targeted to but again I know this happens but as i dont have much spare cash I'm not tempted!


----------



## Happy Paws2

I don't really care if they know where I am, just not anything I doing or thing as I do it. I would have no problem if we had to carry ID card.


----------



## SbanR

Cleo38 said:


> I know I have ads targeted to but again I know this happens but as i dont have much spare cash I'm not tempted!


I have ads targeted at me but they're way off the mark!
I'm an internet simpleton and very wary of buying on line. However I'm always interested when members post links to what they're interested in or have bought. So....................


----------



## Linda Weasel

lorilu said:


> People keep forgetting that a common face covering doesn't protect the wearer, it protects everyone else from the wearer's potential germs. My state has mandatory mask use when in public places where you are likely to encounter another person.
> 
> I wear a home made face covering made from a cut up piece of a t shirt and pony tail holders. It's thick and fits snugly, so none of my breathing droplets are getting out. I walk around half blind though because my glasses promptly fog up as soon as I put it on. I only go out to shop and to the post office once every 2 weeks so it isn't a big deal, in spite of my claustrophobia. It's the least of my worries.
> 
> What I struggle with is how fortunate I am. I have my job and paycheck. I work from home and stay safe. I go for a fresh lovely walk every day in a little woods nearby, I almost never see anyone on the trails. I have enough food both for myself and my cats. Even enough toilet paper! I'm even in the process of buying a house. (It's a wreck of a house but that's what I can afford. Sure I'd like something move in ready and nicer, but I don't want to spend every penny on a mortgage payment, I want to be able to live, too)
> 
> Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


I also have it very easy, compared to some, but I do understand depression; it isn't relevant to circumstances, or being better off than others, having a nice life or whatever. Its like a switch in your head that flips on or off randomly.

I get through it by accepting that it's my brain chemistry over-riding my common sense, and that I just need to do my best to ride it out.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

As we are already monitored through everything we do (and we are) I really can't see the panic over something that might actually do some good. Yes, I understand that it using a central data service but they have explained why they think this will be more effective. Believe them or not believe them. My cousin on the Isle of Wight has text me to say he is now all signed up to the APP as part of the trial. He's got nothin to hide either (well apart from a rather dubious taste in music ).

Anything that will help bring this awful situation under control is ok by me. Not sure if or when the rest of us will get to participate.

J


----------



## mrs phas

lorilu said:


> I feel like I should be able to cope, since so many others have much worse things to cope with. I "should" be cheerful and positive, not waking up with a pit of dread in my stomach every day.


Other people aren't you though
It's a thought that will drive you deeper into depression, although I recognise it's something you can't help but do.
Your mind, literally, does have a mind of its own when you suffer from a deep depressive episode, despite what your logical side tells you, like those cartoons where they show an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other
You have to concentrate on you and try to be kind to yourself
Celebrate every little thing you do.
You wake up in the morning, that's a positive in itself, right there
You don't want to get out of bed but you do, that's a positive
You CBA to get dressed, after all you're you do,working from home, but you do, another positive
You find something that makes you smile, even for a second, that's a positive
You walk away from your work space to have a proper break
And so on
Break the day down to little bits and find a positive in each little bit,and if you can't for one little bit, then don't sweat it (I know easier said than done) one, two or even three down little bits, don't ruin a whole day

Count your blessings,you not someone else's,
you only have a duty to measure up to you, today, 
Not who you think you should be tomorrow, or 
anyone elses standard

Bekind to yourself


----------



## Linda Weasel

lorilu said:


> No it's a good question. I am prone to anxiety in any case. I used to struggle with depression, took meds for years, but haven't had any real problems with depression in many years. But the anxiety is very bad, even in "normal" times. So I don't know why I should expect myself to feel any different now, but somehow I do expect it. I feel like I should be able to cope, since so many others have much worse things to cope with. I "should" be cheerful and positive, not waking up with a pit of dread in my stomach every day. I know it's not rational but I can't seem to break the feeling I "should".


Are you moving house, or just moved, cos that is up there with the top five stress and anxiety-causing life events.


----------



## lorilu

Linda Weasel said:


> Are you moving house, or just moved, cos that is up there with the top five stress and anxiety-causing life events.


Thank you. I need to keep reminding myself of this. Thank you.

Oh not even close to moving yet. The whole thing of house buying (and house hunting before it) I have found to be an absolute nightmare. I just can't stand any disruption to my normal routines, so the two years of house hunting was awful. Once I finally found my house though, the "fun" really started. Shopping for a lender...ugh. Everything is done electronically now and I am such a technophobe.

Then the world ended so it got even harder. The first mortgage fell through because the bank guy lied to my face about a lot of things and on the last day I was scrambling for another lender. My realtor and attorney got us an extension and I found another lender, and the mortgage has been approved but there is this that an the other thing to do first before it is actually approved.

After a day of work all I want to do is rest my brain, but instead I have to force myself to deal with all this stuff. I DO deal with it, phone calls, electronic documents, e mails...somehow I keep plugging away at it and amazing myself that I do. Once I close there are certain things I need to have done before moving in, the house has to have the electric updated, and I want to have the roof done, because I don't want to have to do it after I am in there. I want to do as much as possible before moving in to save my cats the stress of having work done. And all the while in the back of my brain is the worry over my cats and their adjustment. One is 16 and the other 10 and of course they've never lived anywhere else.

Oddly enough, the house layout is remarkably similar to what I have here. 

Anyway.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> Is your bank open or is your hubby just using the cash machine outside?


It's been a few weeks since we've been out but I've just googled it, yes they are open..... we are with HSBC and they are open 10am to 2pm Mon to Fri. I think most backs are the same.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's been a few weeks since we've been out but I've just googled it, yes they are open..... we are with HSBC and they are open 10am to 2pm Mon to Fri. I think most backs are the same.


My advice is get there early! I had to visit 2 banks the other day and spent at least an hour queueing outside (not a problem, the sun was out and it was a lovely day!).


----------



## O2.0

SbanR said:


> I have ads targeted at me but they're way off the mark!


I get those too, the way off the mark ones, and they can be very funny  
FB once decided I needed plus sized bras and a climbing harness. I had to giggle. A friend of mine posts the ads she gets that are totally off and we all get a good giggle out of them.

There was a funny meme I saw the other day about internet browsing history and how most of it was for words you're not sure how to spell - totally guilty here


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> People keep forgetting that a common face covering doesn't protect the wearer, it protects everyone else from the wearer's potential germs. My state has mandatory mask use when in public places where you are likely to encounter another person.
> 
> I wear a home made face covering made from a cut up piece of a t shirt and pony tail holders. It's thick and fits snugly, so none of my breathing droplets are getting out. I walk around half blind though because my glasses promptly fog up as soon as I put it on. I only go out to shop and to the post office once every 2 weeks so it isn't a big deal, in spite of my claustrophobia. It's the least of my worries.
> 
> What I struggle with is how fortunate I am. I have my job and paycheck. I work from home and stay safe. I go for a fresh lovely walk every day in a little woods nearby, I almost never see anyone on the trails. I have enough food both for myself and my cats. Even enough toilet paper! I'm even in the process of buying a house. (It's a wreck of a house but that's what I can afford. Sure I'd like something move in ready and nicer, but I don't want to spend every penny on a mortgage payment, I want to be able to live, too)
> 
> Anyway I struggle with all this good fortune because I still have a lot of mental and emotional breakdowns. I am filled with stress and anxiety about little things, over the course of the day, sometimes even feeling so depressed I don't want to get out of bed. Then I scold myself for my reactions because look how good I have it! What right do I have to be depressed or stressed? But I am.


I had to go out today to the vets and the bank and wore a face mask. I experienced the same problem with my glasses misting up. I had to take them off in the end and just keep putting them on to read something whilst holding my breath.

I queued outside the bank for at least 30 minutes. The main car park in town was packed with cars and shops were open that didn't sell essentials. I queued again outside of B&M Bargains to pick up a few groceries I had missing from my order. Once inside though, not everyone was observing social distancing. I had to keep moving out of people's way, they were just walking past people without a care in the world.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> I get those too, the way off the mark ones, and they can be very funny
> FB once decided I needed plus sized bras and a climbing harness. I had to giggle. A friend of mine posts the ads she gets that are totally off and we all get a good giggle out of them.
> 
> There was a funny meme I saw the other day about internet browsing history and how most of it was for words you're not sure how to spell - totally guilty here


Last year I posted on FB about cutting my hair & it not going too well (I cut my own hair regardless of lockdown!) & was then bombarded with ads for hair products & styles … like FB was taking the p*ss


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I'm more amused you think they HAVEN'T sifted through your data multiple times with a fine tooth comb
> 
> Let's take Alexa again. Every time you interact with Alexa, they not only record the request and the response, they process that data in dozens of ways to ge a better understanding of your needs, desires, habits, thought patterns etc., then cross reference it with dozens of other data sets to refine their knowledge (weather, location, consumor history etc.). That includes, for example, automatically analysing your voice pattern to work out what mood you were in when you made the request.
> 
> I appreciate that all this is probably going to come across as though I'm a bit paranoid - trust me, I'm not. I just understand how it all works. People who come to my home are always surprised that I don't have any smart devices - well, technically I do as I was bought a Google Mini for Christmas several years ago, but it's still in the box. My TV doesn't have smart features. My PVR does, but isn't connected to the net. I only have a smartphone because I need one for Magnificat, really. I AM on Facebook, but I'm careful how I use it. Partly all this is because I live pretty simply anyway, but mainly it's because I know the power of all the data they collect. I deal with small examples of these kinds of data sets in the day job, and you would be amazed how much you can work out from seemingly unconnected information.
> 
> Anyway, as I say I'm not out to scare anyone. Just want people to be aware how much power lies within the data we think of as trivial


Yeah, I still don't care. My main mood when I speak to Alexa or Google - both in my house, just in case one doesn't collect enough data!- is grumpy. Maybe they'll feel sorry for me and send me flowers...

Yes, it's probably important that people know it happens, but I'm not bothered if they know my pants size to be honest


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> No it's a good question. I am prone to anxiety in any case. I used to struggle with depression, took meds for years, but haven't had any real problems with depression in many years. But the anxiety is very bad, even in "normal" times. So I don't know why I should expect myself to feel any different now, but somehow I do expect it. I feel like I should be able to cope, since so many others have much worse things to cope with. I "should" be cheerful and positive, not waking up with a pit of dread in my stomach every day. I know it's not rational but I can't seem to break the feeling I "should".


Rational thinking takes a huge back see though when it comes to your mental state. I'm fairly volatile (the people that know me would consider that a slight understatement) and I had a huge meltdown yesterday because all my seedlings that I planted immediately shrivelled up.

Yes, not rational, and yes not important in the scheme of things, but that's what my brain wanted to do at the time.

'Should' doesn't seem to often come into it...


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's been a few weeks since we've been out but I've just googled it, yes they are open..... we are with HSBC and they are open 10am to 2pm Mon to Fri. I think most backs are the same.


Thanks.  Ive ordered some things for my neighbour online and she pays me in cash so OH could pay it in if necessary . Im not using cash at the moment.


----------



## rona

Having a day mooching today, so only went for a little toddle over the back field and woods at lunchtime rather that early morning.
Parents letting their kids use the playground in the wood, another family having a picnic, an off lead Pug almost bit me for no reason and worst, a group of 7 lads who had come on their bikes, 4 sitting on a seat together and the other kicking a ball around them .................. blame the government eh?


----------



## kimthecat

@rona  Lunch time is always the busiest here. I wonder what Boris and co will come up with. The government cant win , people calling for the lock down to be eased and the others calling for it to be extended.


----------



## MilleD

This is weird. Had a Whats app video chat with my sister earlier as the people buying my step dad's house are champing at the bit to get it finalised.

So discussed seeing what Boris has to say about relaxing the lockdown, then making a plan.

An hour later I get a text message from my GP reminding that I should be shielding until at least 30th June.

I know that it's more in response to people getting excited because the restrictions might be relaxed, but it was weird nevertheless


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Having a day mooching today, so only went for a little toddle over the back field and woods at lunchtime rather that early morning.
> Parents letting their kids use the playground in the wood, another family having a picnic, an off lead Pug almost bit me for no reason and worst, a group of 7 lads who had come on their bikes, 4 sitting on a seat together and the other kicking a ball around them .................. blame the government eh?


Yep, those that will be the folks that absolutely will blame the government.  There seems to be no accountability with some people.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> @rona  Lunch time is always the busiest here. I wonder what Boris and co will come up with. The government cant win , people calling for the lock down to be eased and the others calling for it to be extended.


I think anyone that can stay at home or go about in relative isolation, should still do that. There's others that have no income and no gov help or actually need to go out for various reasons. I'm sorry, no one needs to go sit at a cafe or get their hair cut. It's going to be a tough one.
Me I'm staying away from everyone except my friend and will probably do that past summer.



MilleD said:


> An hour later I get a text message from my GP reminding that I should be shielding until at least 30th June.


I think that date should be the start of easing lockdown


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> I had to go out today to the vets and the bank and wore a face mask
> .


isnt it amazing how before shutdown all the shops, banks, garages etc had signs up saying things along the lines of
please remove
helmet, hoods, hats , face scarves et al
6 weeks on,
and,
youre looked at with horror, if you dont have your face covered
maybe its just my evil brain, that thinks, now, would be an easy time to do a bank/shop/garage robbery


----------



## Linda Weasel

lorilu said:


> Thank you. I need to keep reminding myself of this. Thank you.
> 
> Oh not even close to moving yet. The whole thing of house buying (and house hunting before it) I have found to be an absolute nightmare. I just can't stand any disruption to my normal routines, so the two years of house hunting was awful. Once I finally found my house though, the "fun" really started. Shopping for a lender...ugh. Everything is done electronically now and I am such a technophobe.
> 
> Then the world ended so it got even harder. The first mortgage fell through because the bank guy lied to my face about a lot of things and on the last day I was scrambling for another lender. My realtor and attorney got us an extension and I found another lender, and the mortgage has been approved but there is this that an the other thing to do first before it is actually approved.
> 
> After a day of work all I want to do is rest my brain, but instead I have to force myself to deal with all this stuff. I DO deal with it, phone calls, electronic documents, e mails...somehow I keep plugging away at it and amazing myself that I do. Once I close there are certain things I need to have done before moving in, the house has to have the electric updated, and I want to have the roof done, because I don't want to have to do it after I am in there. I want to do as much as possible before moving in to save my cats the stress of having work done. And all the while in the back of my brain is the worry over my cats and their adjustment. One is 16 and the other 10 and of course they've never lived anywhere else.
> 
> Oddly enough, the house layout is remarkably similar to what I have here.
> 
> Anyway.


I remember having a permanent knot in my stomach and feeling like an elephant was sat on my chest, for months until the paperwork was signed and sealed.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> This is weird. Had a Whats app video chat with my sister earlier as the people buying my step dad's house are champing at the bit to get it finalised.
> 
> So discussed seeing what Boris has to say about relaxing the lockdown, then making a plan.
> 
> An hour later I get a text message from my GP reminding that I should be shielding until at least 30th June.
> 
> I know that it's more in response to people getting excited because the restrictions might be relaxed, but it was weird nevertheless


See, jesthar's point proved!!! Google monitoring you and passed on concerns you're going to break home isolating


----------



## cheekyscrip

Today got a hug, actually few hugs from a total stranger. Ok, the lady was drunk... a friend of a friend... long story...
Well, she assured me she has “no corona”... I was too polite to run away...
Now what?


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Today got a hug, actually few hugs from a total stranger. Ok, the lady was drunk... a friend of a friend... long story...
> Well, she assured me she has "no corona"... I was too polite to run away...
> Now what?


Worry for 2 weeks and try and stay away from everyone else


----------



## Calvine

Jaf said:


> I keep seeing people pulling the mask down to talk so what's the point


Yes, I've noticed that . . . seems a bit ''counterproductive'' (for want of a better word). I can sort of see why though, as some people are virtually unintelligible when they try to speak thro' a mask - they just make a series of grunting noises.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> See, jesthar's point proved!!! Google monitoring you and passed on concerns you're going to break home isolating


:Hilarious


----------



## Charity

Message from our local police


----------



## rona

Charity said:


> Message from our local police
> 
> View attachment 438900


Nope it's totally wrong, All I want to do is go swimming


----------



## Sacrechat




----------



## SbanR

Sacremist said:


> View attachment 438946


Is this you @Magyarmum


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Is this you @Magyarmum


 It would have been a year ago, but for some reason my eyesight's improved so much that I now only have to wear specs for reading!

My problem with the mask is, when I look down, the mask gets pushed up my face and the top edge pokes me in the eye


----------



## cheekyscrip

Police stops everyone but past 8 pmwent home...


Jaf said:


> I won't be wearing a mask unless it's compulsory. I think they make people act stupidly, I keep seeing people pulling the mask down to talk so what's the point.





rona said:


> Nope it's totally wrong, All I want to do is go swimming


----------



## Calvine

Someone sent me this.


----------



## Jaf

cheekyscrip said:


> View attachment 438964
> Police stops everyone but past 8 pmwent home...


Those look like big boats!

Most of Spain has set times for going out, but my village is so small we can go out when we like. I don't understand how it's going to work from Monday when more shops and cafes are allowed to open. Are people supposed to stick to the set hours?! No one knows yet.


----------



## MollySmith

I can’t post details here since it has a political theme, but it’s on Twitter. Miriam Margoyles is trending for being her usual amazing, forthright self.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> I can't post details here since it has a political theme, but it's on Twitter. Miriam Margoyles is trending for being her usual amazing, forthright self.


I used to really rate her but that's just vile, had heard earlier.

You are quite right and why political themes aren't needed on this thread.


----------



## margy

I've just been for a test at one of the testing stations as I had to go off sick yesterday with really bad headache and sore throat. I was surprised I managed to book a test straight away. Now I just have to wait for the results. I don't feel so bad today, just a mild sore throat and headache but because these are two of the symptoms it isn,t worth the risk so I will be in isolation with hubby until the result comes through, then if negative we can go back to work straight away.


----------



## lullabydream

margy said:


> I've just been for a test at one of the testing stations as I had to go off sick yesterday with really bad headache and sore throat. I was surprised I managed to book a test straight away. Now I just have to wait for the results. I don't feel so bad today, just a mild sore throat and headache but because these are two of the symptoms it isn,t worth the risk so I will be in isolation with hubby until the result comes through, then if negative we can go back to work straight away.


Hope you remain to feel OK with mild symptoms, no matter what it is. Nothing worse than feeling under the weather in hot weather. 
Take care and fingers crossed, and plenty of fluids and rest


----------



## SusieRainbow

margy said:


> I've just been for a test at one of the testing stations as I had to go off sick yesterday with really bad headache and sore throat. I was surprised I managed to book a test straight away. Now I just have to wait for the results. I don't feel so bad today, just a mild sore throat and headache but because these are two of the symptoms it isn,t worth the risk so I will be in isolation with hubby until the result comes through, then if negative we can go back to work straight away.


Oh no Margy,hope you're OK ! Get better son.


----------



## Boxer123

margy said:


> I've just been for a test at one of the testing stations as I had to go off sick yesterday with really bad headache and sore throat. I was surprised I managed to book a test straight away. Now I just have to wait for the results. I don't feel so bad today, just a mild sore throat and headache but because these are two of the symptoms it isn,t worth the risk so I will be in isolation with hubby until the result comes through, then if negative we can go back to work straight away.


I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## rona

margy said:


> I've just been for a test at one of the testing stations as I had to go off sick yesterday with really bad headache and sore throat. I was surprised I managed to book a test straight away. Now I just have to wait for the results. I don't feel so bad today, just a mild sore throat and headache but because these are two of the symptoms it isn,t worth the risk so I will be in isolation with hubby until the result comes through, then if negative we can go back to work straight away.


Hope it comes back negative and you feel better soon.
How long until you know?


----------



## margy

Thanks everyone for your well wishes, I'm more worried about people I've been in contact with, at least I've only got mild symptoms so if it's positive I've gotten of lightly. If I haven't heard in 48hrs there's a phone number to ring.


----------



## rona

Can anyone tell me why people with children think that they are immune to Corvid and passing it on to others? Therefore they can take up whole paths or areas that block usage for others. 

Have they some extra God or government given right?


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Can anyone tell me why people with children think that they are immune to Corvid and passing it on to others? Therefore they can take up whole paths or areas that block usage for others.
> 
> Have they some extra God or government given right?


I don't know but it happens here too. I always got myself and children to be in single file to let people past, but have heard the same from bumping in to one of the vets receptionist on our dog walk the other week. I said to her, we go pavement plodding because as I keep saying round town centre. Vet receptionist just wants a nice peaceful walk to exercise whilst furloughed, where I would walk the dogs, see no one and its crowded bless her.


----------



## Sacrechat

rona said:


> Can anyone tell me why people with children think that they are immune to Corvid and passing it on to others? Therefore they can take up whole paths or areas that block usage for others.
> 
> Have they some extra God or government given right?


When I was making my way to the bank on Thursday, there were people queuing all over the place: some in the middle of the pavement, some on the kerb, instead of lining up against the wall. The only way I could walk past and keep 2 metres distance was by walking practically in the middle of the road. Some people just have no common sense.


----------



## lorilu

Calvine said:


> Yes, I've noticed that . . . seems a bit ''counterproductive'' (for want of a better word). I can sort of see why though, as some people are virtually unintelligible when they try to speak thro' a mask - they just make a series of grunting noises.


There's a simple solution. Keep their distance. Don't talk.


----------



## lorilu

cheekyscrip said:


> Today got a hug, actually few hugs from a total stranger. Ok, the lady was drunk... a friend of a friend... long story...
> Well, she assured me she has "no corona"... I was too polite to run away...
> Now what?


I would have shoved her off. Good grief!


----------



## lorilu

margy said:


> Thanks everyone for your well wishes, I'm more worried about people I've been in contact with, at least I've only got mild symptoms so if it's positive I've gotten of lightly. If I haven't heard in 48hrs there's a phone number to ring.


All paws crossed. xx


----------



## cheekyscrip

lorilu said:


> I would have shoved her off. Good grief!


She was a bit out of it... I can imagine it is hard in her profession.. simply had no heart...
My bad...well anyhow we can run but we cannot hide...


----------



## SbanR

New system of queueing once restrictions are relaxed?


----------



## kimthecat

:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

It seems Animal charities are *not *getting any help from the Government

https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2020/05/05/emergency-appeal-for-rescue-centres-in-lockdown/
Not only are our Animal Rescue Centres not getting in funds from the Government but they have had to cancel all fundraising events for this year which can be thousands of pounds in lost revenue, charity shops closed for months which again means lost funds.

ETA I forgot the *not *in the first sentence


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3796243277084556


----------



## Jesthar

This is a very interesting (and sobering) read. Not a scaremongering article in any way, I hasten to add, but this guy KNOWS what he is talking about and clearly artculates why life can't just go back to 'normal' any time soon:

*'Finally, a virus got me.' Scientist who fought Ebola and HIV reflects on facing death from COVID-19*

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> It seems Animal charities are getting any help from the Government


They are getting some help.
My local rescue has received £10,000 grant for each shop and of course paid staff are furloughed.

Edited to add that their summer fundraising events bring barely anything like what would be needed just for a months worth of vet bills. They're not really about the money at the time but raising awareness of the rescue on the whole.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> This is a very interesting (and sobering) read. Not a scaremongering article in any way, I hasten to add, but this guy KNOWS what he is talking about and clearly artculates why life can't just go back to 'normal' any time soon:
> 
> *'Finally, a virus got me.' Scientist who fought Ebola and HIV reflects on facing death from COVID-19*
> 
> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19


Already read that article. It's very good


----------



## mrs phas

so tonight BJ, allegedly, is going to be changing the slogan from
*stay home
stay safe
save the nhs*
to
*be alert*
( i simply cannot read that without adding "the world needs more lerts", perils of a 70s upbringing, sorry)
*control the virus
save lives*
but what does it mean?
people couldnt/wouldnt get their heads around
stay at home
which is, to be honest, about as straightforward a notion/instruction as one can get
*If*
hes not planing to open schools and some extra shops, ( yay to garden centres though)
then why change the instructions?
why muddy the waters?
Scotland, N Ireland and Wales are not planning on changing the message
and
all three are extending the lockdown for another three weeks

so how are we meant to stay alert and for what?
curtain twitchers already abound re those, allegedly, breaking stay at home or social distancing rules
causing even more work for our already understaffed and overloaded police
whats going to happen when someone coughs in public, sneezes, has a hot flush ( ladies of a certain age know what i mean)?
will we be overloading the NHS and police
*AGAIN!

Instead of following his clone he should be putting the GBPs safety and health first*


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> will we be overloading the NHS


We haven't been overloading the NHS though..

The death figures since lockdown are worryingly high compared to the past 5 years.. This is after taking into account Covid-19. If anything people are afraid to seek medical assistant when they normally would.
Week in week out the government is begging people, telling people that the NHS is still open for normal accident and emergencies. Please use them.

Figures available at national statistics.


----------



## kimthecat

Arny said:


> They are getting some help.
> My local rescue has received £10,000 grant for each shop and of course paid staff are furloughed.
> 
> Edited to add that their summer fundraising events bring barely anything like what would be needed just for a months worth of vet bills. They're not really about the money at the time but raising awareness of the rescue on the whole.


That's good to know that some are . I forgot to put *not* in my original post . What if they dont have shops? many small rescues don't.

Our local RSPCA rely on their shop to fund it . I assume they will get a grant.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> That's good to know that some are . I forgot to put *not* in my original post . What if they dont have shops? many small rescues don't.
> 
> Our local RSPCA rely on their shop to fund it . I assume they will get a grant.


Absolutely many rely on fundraising days don't they, am thinking dog rescues with their days with stalls and the fun dog shows that are always popular. Just not viable.

Some always do ebay auctions too, but that relies on people knowing, and donations which isn't easy when people can't pop in a car to drop something off now.

Plus people are struggling themselves too.

It's not just so much furloughing staff though, in rescue, zoo, animal sanctuaries there are many animals still to feed. With no money coming in, it must be difficult to keep these places afloat. Just to feed must be expensive, then additional vet care needed, and still the overall running costs plus the extra time needed with skeletal staff to put in the care. Must be a nightmare


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> That's good to know that some are . I forgot to put *not* in my original post . What if they dont have shops? many small rescues don't.
> 
> Our local RSPCA rely on their shop to fund it . I assume they will get a grant.


Because they're on lockdown and no one can go an physically look at or walk the dogs, or choose a cat they've put the animals on FB for virtual adoption. just to keep them going. Fortunately CocaCola donated a ton of canned dog/cat food to them a couple of weeks ago which should keep them going for a while.


----------



## Cully

About the Prime Minister's forthcoming message tonight.
I think that maybe some people are becoming complacent with the "stay at home" mantra. They're too used to it now, so maybe it's not such a bad idea to put a different slant on it, just to keep the message fresh. If people are talking about it, for whatever reason, then that's keeping it topical and less likely to be forgotten.
I don't think it's a good idea to speculate on what Boris will say in his message this evening because that's all it can be, speculation. 
Personally I think it will be very dangerous to reduce lockdown by more than the bare minimum despite pressure from some. When people are under pressure that's when mistakes can happen, and this is too important to allow errors of judgement.
Matt Hancock asked Boris to "give me a break". I think we should all give Boris a break so he can think with a clear mind.


----------



## Jesthar

lullabydream said:


> We haven't been overloading the NHS though.


That rather depends on your point of view. The NHS has coped, yes - but only by running at flat out for an extended period of time, cancelling most non-critical stuff and using staff in areas they are not usually qualified to work in. That can't continue indefinitely.

That A&E capacity is underused is perhaps a little concerning, but I think we can attribute at least part of that to the lack of clear guidance from the government, who at times seem to have a very bad case of mixed messages syndrome.

Of course, the biggest problem with a scenario like this though, is whatever you do is doomed to feel like failure. If you don't take strong enough measures, people die, and the rest blame you for not taking strong enough measures. If you do take strong measures and you successfully contain the outbreak, people complain that there was no need to take such strict measures in the first place because so few people died...


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> That rather depends on your point of view. The NHS has coped, yes - but only by running at flat out for an extended period of time, cancelling most non-critical stuff and using staff in areas they are not usually qualified to work in. That can't continue indefinitely.
> 
> That A&E capacity is underused is perhaps a little concerning, but I think we can attribute at least part of that to the lack of clear guidance from the government, who at times seem to have a very bad case of mixed messages syndrome.
> 
> Of course, the biggest problem with a scenario like this though, is whatever you do is doomed to feel like failure. If you don't take strong enough measures, people die, and the rest blame you for not taking string enough measures. If you do take strong measures and you successfully contain the outbreak, people complain that there was no need to take such strict measures in the first place because so few people died...


Oh absolutely, they has been a major struggle, this has worried my GP friends, nurse friends so much. I don't think anyone has had a crystal ball to say otherwise..

There will be always be arguments that we could have been more proactive from many points of view, rather than reactive.

I do not want to bring politics too much into the debate, but from every one I heard saw I spoke to working on the front line, including the government there was a clear message that if you need A and E use it. From what I heard from even GP friends, people were afraid to come to surgeries to be examined if needed if a telephone call wasn't enough, ironically would pile in supermarkets though. Many people are seeing hospitals as just a place where the virus is, and easily spread. Which I can't blame then with stories of health care workers dying and media blaming the government for no ppe. Laymen then expecting to be treated at these same hospitals, with no ppe.

Yes I do know some GPS have had to self isolate, no testing so will never know if they had Covid-19 at the time. Of course testing available more readily now.

Of course whatever the government measures would have been it wouldn't have been enough. As much as people have tried to avoid news stories etc, it's there everywhere. Some headlines of course are rather random too so without reading you just don't know but scaremongering is what media can do best, it gets people to read.

Am glad to see here, that everyone seems to take it serious. Have loved lockdown project threads, people sharing happy things happening, jokes and making the most of it. Love how in CC how everyone has come together to send prayers for the one member really affected by Covid-19 and it really was the 50:50 chance being put on a ventilator. Over in DC, how the support there for 2 people going through cancer has really been amazing over this difficult time


----------



## Rafa

Cully said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to speculate on what Boris will say in his message this evening because that's all it can be, speculation.


I agree absolutely.

Better to wait and see what the announcement is than to guess what will be said.


----------



## mrs phas

So after all that gobbledegook
Can any one tell me
Am I allowed out now
Or
Do I still stay in for another 5 weeks

Being alert for what?
Maybe I'll move to scotland


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> So after all that gobbledegook
> Can any one tell me
> Am I allowed out now
> Or
> Do I still stay in for another 5 weeks
> 
> Being alert for what?
> Maybe I'll move to scotland


Not the foggiest why is this all so wolly ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

I thought it was pretty clear tbh

Personally though, very little change for the next three months while hubby is still vulnerable.

*Coronavirus (COVID‑19)*
*Stay alert*
We can all help control the virus if we all stay alert. This means you must:


Stay at home as much as possible
Work from home if you can
Limit contact with other people
Keep your distance if you go out (2 metres apart where possible)
Wash your hands regularly
Self-isolate if you or anyone in your household has symptoms.

Read the Prime Minister's address for the latest information.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> Not the foggiest why is this all so wolly ?


because BJ is so far out of touch with the normal GBP, he thinks newspeak and doublethink, makes everything is ok
( ok, yeah, as a person im glad hes fit and well, I wouldnt be human if i didnt wish for all to be,but the rest, nah, but im not getting political, heres not the place for that)
plain english is what is needed, for plain speaking people
as my mother used to say
it doesnt make you clever or better
it just means no one understands you

things he said tonight are about as clear as a misted up bathroom mirror


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> I thought it was pretty clear tbh
> 
> Personally though, very little change for the next three months while hubby is still vulnerable.


i have to agree
until they say heres a vaccination and it is mandatory EVERYONE has to be innoculated
nothing changes for me
Although it seems that those whove been furloughed, if their work is open, can go back to work, as early as tomorrow, as long as they dont use public transport
prepare to lose all the lovely fresh air and animal life, that all towns have experienced, due to major traffic jams from tomorrow

the other thing for us to take into our thoughts, is that, according to bbc website, Germany has seen a rise in deaths, not a lot, but still a rise, since they relaxed the stay at home rules
IF it can happen there, its sure to happen here
not scaremongering, fact


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh I think many people will choose to continue to work from home, especially while the schools are shut.


----------



## Dave S

Is it me just being a bit cynical but the number of deaths in the last 24 hours coincides with the good news that there are partial relaxations in the lock down.
Don't get me wrong, any reduction is welcome but they need to concentrate on care homes, both residents and PPE for staff.

Like many I am now a little confused as to what we can do - exercise more yes, back to work for some - OK, out door workers such as window cleaners and gardeners, not sure.


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> Is it me just being a bit cynical but the number of deaths in the last 24 hours coincides with the good news that there are partial relaxations in the lock down.
> Don't get me wrong, any reduction is welcome but they need to concentrate on care homes, both residents and PPE for staff.
> 
> Like many I am now a little confused as to what we can do - exercise more yes, back to work for some - OK, out door workers such as window cleaners and gardeners, not sure.


bit like they made the test statistics on the day they said
but havent managed since 
is that the kind of thing that triggers yours, and my, cynicism


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Germany has seen a rise in deaths, not a lot, but still a rise, since they relaxed the stay at home rules


But it was never really about preventing deaths due to the virus it was about not having too many going into hospital all at once and therefore dying purely from lack of space/equipment etc, that was my understanding from this whole thing anyway.

I think overall giving some sort of timescale (even if it changes) gives people hope that they're going in the right direction instead of never ending "stay at home".


----------



## Lurcherlad

Dave S said:


> Is it me just being a bit cynical but the number of deaths in the last 24 hours coincides with the good news that there are partial relaxations in the lock down.
> Don't get me wrong, any reduction is welcome but they need to concentrate on care homes, both residents and PPE for staff.
> 
> Like many I am now a little confused as to what we can do - exercise more yes, back to work for some - OK, out door workers such as window cleaners and gardeners, not sure.


The window cleaners and gardeners I know have continued to work as they're able to do so while observing SD and essential for an income for their family so no change for them as far as I can see.


----------



## mrs phas

Arny said:


> I think overall giving some sort of timescale (even if it changes) gives people hope that they're going in the right direction instead of never ending "stay at home".


not for the very vunerable it doesnt
we're on a ever stretching timeline
and all this business about going out as many times as you want, for as ong as you want, even driving as far as you want to exercise where you want
brings no comfort or solace to us

i know it was never about preventing deaths, but helping the NHS
but the fact that the death rate IS rising, gives no hope, that the 12 weeks, will be enough for us very vunerable


----------



## lullabydream

Dave S said:


> Is it me just being a bit cynical but the number of deaths in the last 24 hours coincides with the good news that there are partial relaxations in the lock down.
> Don't get me wrong, any reduction is welcome but they need to concentrate on care homes, both residents and PPE for staff.
> 
> Like many I am now a little confused as to what we can do - exercise more yes, back to work for some - OK, out door workers such as window cleaners and gardeners, not sure.


It's the weekend.. Statistics are always lower anyway on a weekend due to a lag. I am guessing hence the lag that the new rules enforced on Wednesday not tomorrow.

I can't see all manufacturing work going back or construction if they haven't gone back since. It can be very hard in that environment to social distance, I know where I am some are working alternate weeks to allow as best they can. To clarify that's manufacturing.. It's space, machinary placing. However if they have and are working with the government and to be fair these type of jobs require things like face protection, some probably better than ppe in hospitals then it probably can work. It's just getting the work in, as many are set skilled set relying on one another. They will need the manufacturers, engineers if they need vaccines made or pharmaceuticals as they maintain and build these machines.. Plus the food industry and many others of course.

Of course construction and manufacturing is the bread and butter of the economy in some ways so the government know its needed. The probably know its also been hit hard, like most industries over the years, this just another blow.


----------



## ForestWomble

Am I right in thinking we still aren't allowed to see family outside of our own household?


----------



## Kaily

I am hoping things will be made clearer tomorrow as to me its not clear now. For instance can I drive 50 miles and go to the beach tomorrow? Not than I am going to, just want to know if I can.


----------



## Rafa

I really don't understand all the confusion.

The situation remains the same apart from outdoor exercise being now unlimited, it is permitted to drive to a venue where you wish to exercise and it is okay to sit outside in a public place, such as a park, but social distancing must be maintained.

Those who absolutely cannot work from home, such as construction workers, may return to work from tomorrow.

Otherwise, for the time being, nothing has changed.

So long as the "very vulnerable" continue to self-isolate, they're not at any increased risk.


----------



## O2.0

I think this is where personal responsibility comes in. Just because the government says you *can* do something, doesn't mean you have to go out and do it, or even should.

Our state has opened up a lot of things. Restaurants are open now for dine-in, not just outside patio service, but inside as well as long as they operate at lower capacity. No one in this household is particularly vulnerable, but even though it's Mother's Day today, no, we're not going out to eat. I will continue to do volunteer work and because of that, I want to keep my exposure minimal. The less I am exposed, the less likely I am to pass it on to others. 

There is an excellent article (that I can't find now of course) about how the virus spreads and as best they can tell it's a combined factor of quantity of virus exposure plus time. Breathing someone else's droplets for one breath as you pass them in a well-ventilated area is likely not going to pose much of a risk. It's the continued exposure in low ventilation settings that pose greater risks. 

Off to see if I can find the article now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Am I right in thinking we still aren't allowed to see family outside of our own household?


Yes. Social distancing still applies.


----------



## O2.0

Found it 

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/th...mBZa9lQcAEPxr5A7VyJcbDxHYntJ1Ae3r1Sm3ye-u62vU

"Ignoring the terrible outbreaks in nursing homes, we find that the biggest outbreaks are in prisons, religious ceremonies, and workplaces, such a meat packing facilities and call centers. Any environment that is enclosed, with poor air circulation and high density of people, spells trouble."


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> Personally though, very little change for the next three months while hubby is still vulnerable.





mrs phas said:


> not for the very vunerable it doesnt


Sorry if this is an intrusive question, but was just wondering if there are levels of classification for vulnerable? In the US there are no letters or anything telling anyone they're vulnerable, just a list of conditions that may make you more susceptible to complications from Covid-19.

But I noted here one of you uses the term "vulnerable" and the other says "very vulnerable" and was just wondering if in the UK there is a distinction among those classified as vulnerable. And if so, are there different directives?


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> Yes. Social distancing still applies.


Thank you, thought so.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

ForestWomble said:


> Am I right in thinking we still aren't allowed to see family outside of our own household?


There will be no restrictions on travel so you could met family in a park so long as you stay 2m apart, you could sit on one park bench and chat to your family sat on one opposite.


----------



## MollySmith

More slogans, more waffle in my personal opinion. If nothing much has changed why the nonsensical new graphic?

Happy to carry on being at home and take my responsibility. I thought we were already quarantining passengers at airports, his transcript of the speech seemed to say not. That is scary.


----------



## Linda Weasel




----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> because BJ is so far out of touch with the normal GBP, he thinks newspeak and doublethink, makes everything is ok
> ( ok, yeah, as a person im glad hes fit and well, I wouldnt be human if i didnt wish for all to be,but the rest, nah, but im not getting political, heres not the place for that)
> plain english is what is needed, for plain speaking people
> as my mother used to say
> it doesnt make you clever or better
> it just means no one understands you
> 
> things he said tonight are about as clear as a misted up bathroom mirror


Inclined to agree and people will may take advantage as has already been seen. I think this goes back to the start of the pandemic when lockdown was enforced arguably too late because the government didn't want people to feel trapped or some such phrase they used (I am completely paraphrasing here). FIFA closed off football games before the government brought in this lite lockdown.

I keep comparing UK to that other politically fractured country, Greece, and how they have handled Covid 19 despite the elections, debt and immigration, and seems early lockdown no matter how unhappy it made people was the key. They are now lifting lockdown with 150 deaths. So yes, I think there is a degree of wanting to remain popular given we are now in negotiations over the unmentionable Big B. It's a fine line.

Results of a brief straw poll on Faceache and general consensus on Twitter in the business groups I belong to, say the same. More questions from this review, than answers, especially around management and welfare.

PF seems the only vaguely supportive space I've been on in regard to the review... l am in danger of digressing into politics too far so I will stop otherwise i shall have to stand on socially distanced naughty steps! Sorry mods!


----------



## shadowmare

O2.0 said:


> I think this is where personal responsibility comes in. Just because the government says you *can* do something, doesn't mean you have to go out and do it, or even should.
> 
> Our state has opened up a lot of things. Restaurants are open now for dine-in, not just outside patio service, but inside as well as long as they operate at lower capacity. No one in this household is particularly vulnerable, but even though it's Mother's Day today, no, we're not going out to eat. I will continue to do volunteer work and because of that, I want to keep my exposure minimal. The less I am exposed, the less likely I am to pass it on to others.
> 
> There is an excellent article (that I can't find now of course) about how the virus spreads and as best they can tell it's a combined factor of quantity of virus exposure plus time. Breathing someone else's droplets for one breath as you pass them in a well-ventilated area is likely not going to pose much of a risk. It's the continued exposure in low ventilation settings that pose greater risks.
> 
> Off to see if I can find the article now.


Just curious how will these restaurants operate in line with social distancing measures? I assume that the masks are not used by the staff and the guests don't need to wear them either? How does table service happen? Me and my coworkers have been trying to figure out how will our place function when restrictions get lifted and so far the waiters have been pretty rubbish at throwing trays onto tables from 1.5-2m distance. Though practice makes perfect I guess and since we're in Scotland we'll have a bit of extra time to improve our long distance table service skills.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I saw a piece showing how bars/cafe in Holland were staying open and managing the SD issue.

Taped zones for chairs at the tables, still too close and within 2m of each other but also in order for a person to get in or out of their seat they have to be close to the adjacent person.

Didn’t cut it in my view.


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> Is it me just being a bit cynical but the number of deaths in the last 24 hours coincides with the good news that there are partial relaxations in the lock down.
> Don't get me wrong, any reduction is welcome but they need to concentrate on care homes, both residents and PPE for staff.
> 
> Like many I am now a little confused as to what we can do - exercise more yes, back to work for some - OK, out door workers such as window cleaners and gardeners, not sure.


Just wanted to point out that it's not the number of deaths that are significant and they wouldn't affect the decision to relax the rules because these deaths would be people who'd been infected at least a week ago.

The decision to relax the restrictions, in any country are or should be, made when the number of new infections starts to drop significantly.


----------



## rona

He did say that there would be more clarity today. 
There's going to be 50 pages of it apparently.


----------



## Magyarmum

shadowmare said:


> Just curious how will these restaurants operate in line with social distancing measures? I assume that the masks are not used by the staff and the guests don't need to wear them either? How does table service happen? Me and my coworkers have been trying to figure out how will our place function when restrictions get lifted and so far the waiters have been pretty rubbish at throwing trays onto tables from 1.5-2m distance. Though practice makes perfect I guess and since we're in Scotland we'll have a bit of extra time to improve our long distance table service skills.


In Hungary, restrictions have been relaxed throughout the country with the exception of Budapest and Pest county. Restaurants and coffee shops can open but only if they have an outside terrace for customers to sit maintaining the 1,5 metre social distance. Customers and staff have to wear masks (it's compulsory in Hungary) and customers aren't allowed to enter the premises except to go to the toilet. Any restaurant/coffee shop that doesn't have an outside area is only allowed to do home delivery.

Having worked in a hotel and restaurant I can think of several ways to minimise close contact. Disposable menus for example, where customers mark their requirements on it and leave it in a place reserved for that purpose.Similarly prepared food could be collected by customers from another table. And I think I'm correct in saying, in some US states payment can only be made by credit card something that wouldn't work in Hungary as it's still very much a cash society!


----------



## MollySmith

shadowmare said:


> Just curious how will these restaurants operate in line with social distancing measures? I assume that the masks are not used by the staff and the guests don't need to wear them either? How does table service happen? Me and my coworkers have been trying to figure out how will our place function when restrictions get lifted and so far the waiters have been pretty rubbish at throwing trays onto tables from 1.5-2m distance. Though practice makes perfect I guess and since we're in Scotland we'll have a bit of extra time to improve our long distance table service skills.


A good friend owns a pub and genuinely can't do it. He can't keep staff 6 feet apart behind the bat, never mind customers. It's ludicrous.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> He did say that there would be more clarity today.
> There's going to be 50 pages of it apparently.


I need some bedtime reading, I couldn't sleep last night.


----------



## MollySmith

Deleted slightly political


----------



## rona

No swimming  but should be able to go Kayaking


----------



## MollySmith

This twitter thread (if you're on Twitter) explains what R is and in basic terms what we are meant to do, I thought it very useful and sensible. Written by a doctor.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259587681828384773


----------



## margy

Got my test result after 36hrs last night, it was negative. Huge relief. Feeling much better and will be back to work soon


----------



## Boxer123

margy said:


> Got my test result after 36hrs last night, it was negative. Huge relief. Feeling much better and will be back to work soon


Good news what a relief.


----------



## rona

margy said:


> Got my test result after 36hrs last night, it was negative. Huge relief. Feeling much better and will be back to work soon


Brilliant


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> No swimming  but should be able to go Kayaking


Can you pretend to be a novice kayaker and topple into the water. You'll have to swim then if you're unable to pull yourself back into the kayak


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> Can you pretend to be a novice kayaker and topple into the water. You'll have to swim then if you're unable to pull yourself back into the kayak


Already thought of that 

Depends how much Duckweed is on the canal


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> That's ok, you don't have to,
> Even under lock down I believe it's still allowed, under social distancing guidelines of course
> 
> Until such time I'm voted in, no one will know
> As for what my directive to the nation would be?
> I can't answer that, politics are not allowed on this thread
> 
> Yawn
> I actually stated, in the post ( I have emboldened it,as you clearly missed it the first time)


Are you ok?
I've been getting progressively worried about you. 
You never used to be this abrupt and argumentative 
I would have put this in a PM but you're not allowing them. I'm genuinely concerned about you, not trying to annoy or upset you


----------



## MollySmith

Nice word testiculator I shall use instead of cockwomble (I’ve rather overused it since March and seeking something appropriate I can use in conversation with my parents that doesn’t involve an expletive).


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> That's very thoughtful of you
> I'm fine
> I will PM you the reasons I don't allow PM's anymore, so as not to take up space here


Take care of yourself x


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> Already thought of that


Great minds think alike, fools..........


----------



## catz4m8z

margy said:


> Got my test result after 36hrs last night, it was negative. Huge relief. Feeling much better and will be back to work soon


Glad to hear you are feeling better. Although TBH if you are just abit unwell it might of been better if you were positive.....at least then you would have some lovely antibodies for a while!

Its going to be nice now we can get out of the house more often. I dont miss crowds (Im sociophobic, been social distancing for years!) but I did miss just being able to go for a walk when I wanted.
I think alot of people will be too nervous to go out much though.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> No swimming  but should be able to go Kayaking


DS could go fishing (something he enjoys) so long as he can be isolated from everyone else and maintain SD.

Depending on the lake set up that could be possible and there are usually set Pegs well spread out and no public wandering around.

So long as he exercises all the relevant safeguards coming home again I think it's an option for him to get a change of scenery away from the house.


----------



## PFModerator

Closing this for further moderation.


----------



## PFModerator

Now reopened following some pruning.


----------



## PFModerator

I'm finding it really hard to believe that after a few minutes of reopening this thread there have been 2 reports !
Agreed, one of the comments that should have been deleted wasn't but references to it were deleted.
May I suggest that sifting through the thread looking for possible political references is not constructive ?


----------



## O2.0

shadowmare said:


> Just curious how will these restaurants operate in line with social distancing measures? I assume that the masks are not used by the staff and the guests don't need to wear them either? How does table service happen? Me and my coworkers have been trying to figure out how will our place function when restrictions get lifted and so far the waiters have been pretty rubbish at throwing trays onto tables from 1.5-2m distance. Though practice makes perfect I guess and since we're in Scotland we'll have a bit of extra time to improve our long distance table service skills.


I have no idea, haven't been to a restaurant in months nor do I plan to any time soon. Honing my cooking skills and may even learn to bake with help from @Lurcherlad  (The exact measuring does me in every time! Why does it have to be so exact!! :Arghh:Arghh)

I know at the fast food chain where my daughter works they have had to wear masks for a while now, and even have provided ones that match their uniforms! But this is a restaurant known for going above and beyond as far as customer service goes. There is no state-wide requirement for masks in my state (others yes). 
As far as table service, there is no way you can social distance as far as I can tell... So no, really don't understand how they can open up restaurants and still social distance. But hey, what do I know...


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> As far as table service, there is no way you can social distance as far as I can tell... So no, really don't understand how they can open up restaurants and still social distance. But hey, what do I know...


I suppose you could always put up screens and have them operate more self service. Somebody calls your name and you go and collect your food...kinda like Starbucks!:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I have no idea, haven't been to a restaurant in months nor do I plan to any time soon. Honing my cooking skills and may even learn to bake with help from @Lurcherlad  (The exact measuring does me in every time! Why does it have to be so exact!! :Arghh:Arghh)
> 
> I know at the fast food chain where my daughter works they have had to wear masks for a while now, and even have provided ones that match their uniforms! But this is a restaurant known for going above and beyond as far as customer service goes. There is no state-wide requirement for masks in my state (others yes).
> As far as table service, there is no way you can social distance as far as I can tell... So no, really don't understand how they can open up restaurants and still social distance. But hey, what do I know...


This is what a restaurant in Amsterdam has done..

https://people.com/food/a-restauran...es-so-diners-can-eat-while-social-distancing/

*A Restaurant in Amsterdam Built Quarantine Greenhouses so Diners Can Eat While Social Distancing*

And restaurants in Dubai

https://gulfnews.com/going-out/coro...are-social-distancing-1.1584890670454?slide=1

*Coronavirus: Look at how these Dubai restaurants are "social distancing"*


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> I have no idea, haven't been to a restaurant in months nor do I plan to any time soon. Honing my cooking skills and may even learn to bake with help from @Lurcherlad  (The exact measuring does me in every time! Why does it have to be so exact!! :Arghh:Arghh)
> 
> I know at the fast food chain where my daughter works they have had to wear masks for a while now, and even have provided ones that match their uniforms! But this is a restaurant known for going above and beyond as far as customer service goes. There is no state-wide requirement for masks in my state (others yes).
> As far as table service, there is no way you can social distance as far as I can tell... So no, really don't understand how they can open up restaurants and still social distance. But hey, what do I know...


In the UK we aren't opening restaurants yet though.

From what was said yesterday I am presuming we will be waiting for the R rate to be reasonably low, so we would be in about what they class as Level 2..low transmission with the virus

I have no idea how testing will look, but there should be by then in theory some test, trace, and isolate those that need to. So those with the virus who tested positive, and those who have been in contact with them.. Hence the basis of the app and emphasis on testing. If the app is actually successful in its trial.

The hospitality industry was mentioned in the 3rd step of opening lockdown to give people some hope I guess here looking forward. There will of course be some social distancing, but in 2 months time if the R remains below 1 and hopefully lower than it is now. So trying to logistically think about how the hospitality industry would work, as we are is pretty futile hence why it just isn't possible. Even the ones that were allowed to stay open, struggled with the logistics and closed.

It really is just wait and see how the country does as a whole not what about 2 months times where testing may be wider spread, done differently who knows. Considering this is a new virus, so much in reality is learnt nearly every week about it.


----------



## Nonnie

Restriction lifting is too much, too soon.

Just found out today that both my brother and sister in law are in the process of recovering from it. They havent left their home for weeks, so could only have contracted it from deliveries/packaging.

Whats worrying is that my SIL tested positive, and my bother, despite having exactly the same symptoms, tested negative. Makes me question how reliable the tests are.

Thankfully, neither had to be hospitalised. Just waiting now to see if their two little boys get it.


----------



## MollySmith

Nonnie said:


> Restriction lifting is too much, too soon.
> 
> Just found out today that both my brother and sister in law are in the process of recovering from it. They havent left their home for weeks, so could only have contracted it from deliveries/packaging.
> 
> Whats worrying is that my SIL tested positive, and my bother, despite having exactly the same symptoms, tested negative. Makes me question how reliable the tests are.
> 
> Thankfully, neither had to be hospitalised. Just waiting now to see if their two little boys get it.


I'm sorry to hear that. I've heard a bit about inaccurate tests too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

The fact they hadn’t been out for weeks and still got it is worrying


----------



## Nonnie

MollySmith said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I've heard a bit about inaccurate tests too.


Im not sure what test they had - probably both as they are private and my SIL is EXTREMELY demanding and high maintenance. She'd want the full works.


Lurcherlad said:


> The fact they hadn't been out for weeks and still got it is worrying


I have to admit, im quite complacent about packaging as everything i read suggested the risk was extremely minimal. My food shopping is always kept for a week before i eat it anyway, so i dont worry about that.

Ive yet to question either of them, so part of me is hopeful one of them has been out somewhere and picked it up.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Everything coming indoors gets anti bac’d then wiped with hot, soapy cloth then left to dry.

Then hands, door knobs and surfaces washed.


----------



## lullabydream

Nonnie said:


> Restriction lifting is too much, too soon.
> 
> Just found out today that both my brother and sister in law are in the process of recovering from it. They havent left their home for weeks, so could only have contracted it from deliveries/packaging.
> 
> Whats worrying is that my SIL tested positive, and my bother, despite having exactly the same symptoms, tested negative. Makes me question how reliable the tests are.
> 
> Thankfully, neither had to be hospitalised. Just waiting now to see if their two little boys get it.


It's terrible how quickly its spread, and how easily.

Have seen reports about negative tests too but I think in most swab type tests you can get false results occasionally. Nasal swabs are supposed to be better but more uncomfortable and harder to take, so many do throat swabs


----------



## Cully

O2.0 said:


> I have no idea, haven't been to a restaurant in months nor do I plan to any time soon. Honing my cooking skills and may even learn to bake with help from @Lurcherlad  (The exact measuring does me in every time! Why does it have to be so exact!! :Arghh:Arghh)


You can't have read any of the cook books by the dear Mrs Beaton then. In those days her recipes were full of a goodly pinch of this, and modest helping of that. Not exactly precise measurements but she was no doubt very popular. I still have a well thumbed cook book of hers somewhere which I can't bear to throw out.
I always thought the US system of using measuring cups was a great idea and saved all the messing about. After all a cup is a cup whatever the ingredients, providing the same size cups are used throughout the whole recipe.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> You can't have read any of the cook books by the dear Mrs Beaton then. In those days her recipes were full of a goodly pinch of this, and modest helping of that. Not exactly precise measurements but she was no doubt very popular.


'Take 1 dozen eggs'....!


----------



## MilleD

I have to say that after listening to the briefing tonight, I feel that the information given on easing the lockdown in England has been based on scientific and expert evidence, and the other three home Nations based more on knee jerk anti Boris 'science'.

The more I listen to Chris Whitty, the more I'm convinced he's excellent'

You may disagree, but we do need to relax measures to see what the result is. And this is far better done now than when other seasonal illnesses are rampant


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> I have to say that after listening to the briefing tonight, I feel that the information given on easing the lockdown in England has been based on scientific and expert evidence, and the other three home Nations based more on one jerk anti Boris 'science'.
> 
> The more I listen to Chris Whitty, the more I'm convinced he's excellent'
> 
> You may disagree, but we do need to relax measures to see what the result is. And this is far better done now than when other seasonal illnesses are rampant


It's really only a little relaxation to be fair.

Chris Whitty has always been good and I think it's been clear from the start they have always lead from science. Loved his logic why they didn't share recovery rates. So good.

Excellent youtube video a lecture so an hour long on how to control an epidemic




Just to add, its a year old, so no mention of Covid-19. He has one about Covid-19 but it's about 1 hour 30 minutes if people want to look it up.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> You may disagree, but we do need to relax measures to see what the result is. And this is far better done now than when other seasonal illnesses are rampant


We _know _what the result will be - a spike in cases. Plenty of evidence around the world for that. The only question is how big the spike will be.

Quite honestly, although I'd have preferred no relaxation just yet to give our exhausted NHS a chance to rest a bit, the type of relaxations don't concern me half as much as the manner in which they have been delivered. At times like this you need clear, concise instructions, not the convoluted and confusing waffle we got. When you're seeing dozens of posts on social media trying to clarify what was meant (and often conflicting), then I think it's safe to say the message was not well communicated.

In particular, the watering down of the slogan makes no psychological sense. "Stay home" is clear and easy to understand. 'Stay alert' means precisely nothing, and the change will actively encourate a significant number of people to stop staying home (as we saw on the tube this morning). I suspect there will also be abuse of the new exercise and meeting up permissions - well, we saw how badly things went last time people were allowed to gather in public areas 'as long as they followed social distancing', didn't we?

So yeah, I may be in England, but I'm going to be pretending I'm in Scotland and carrying on as if nothing has changed.


----------



## Linda Weasel

I’m waiting indoors to see what happens next.

I think the only reason that cases have decreased is because we’re all staying in.


----------



## O2.0

Just sit and watch the US for a few weeks see how it goes here. We've relaxed a lot of restrictions we'll have a good idea how that works out for us here soon. 
Oh wait...


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> DS could go fishing (something he enjoys) so long as he can be isolated from everyone else and maintain SD.
> 
> Depending on the lake set up that could be possible and there are usually set Pegs well spread out and no public wandering around.
> 
> So long as he exercises all the relevant safeguards coming home again I think it's an option for him to get a change of scenery away from the house.


My husband belongs to a small fly fishing group that fish on a private lake. They've just been given permission to fish there again although only four people at a time, so a rota has been devised. Hopefully that will work out, I will make sure he takes gloves and sanitiser with him as there is a gate with a key pad to get in.


----------



## Sacrechat

Shows how different camera angles and different lenses can give a different perspective with the telephoto lense making it look like people are flouting the rules on social distancing and not keeping 2 metres apart and the wide angle showing them obeying the rules:

https://www.boredpanda.com/differen...ook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BPFacebook


----------



## catz4m8z

Nonnie said:


> Whats worrying is that my SIL tested positive, and my bother, despite having exactly the same symptoms, tested negative. Makes me question how reliable the tests are.
> .


They can be unreliable TBH. Even though its a throat and nasal swab that is really quite invasive (basically if its not far enough down to make somebody gag then you havent done it right!:Jawdrop) you can still get false negatives. I know some of the patients at my hospital have had 2-3 negative swabs but covid causes very distinct changes on chest x-rays so that can be just as useful for diagnosis....although that doesnt help you if you are at home!

Personally I think the lockdown is going to be fluid for the rest of the year. If numbers drop we can free up resources for surgeries and treatments that have been neglected. Then if we get another rise we can go back to concentrating on covid. It may go up and down for a while yet.


----------



## Summercat

@Sacremist 
I think a lot of photos shown recently in the news are using telephoto lenses. They do have an odd look to them, almost photoshopped.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m surprised that the wearing of face masks was not made mandatory on public transport (at least) tbh.

I know they don’t offer full protection but I feel it would have been a sensible precaution.

I’ll be carrying on as I am for the foreseeable future to maintain the “bubble” round my household.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm surprised that the wearing of face masks was not made mandatory on public transport (at least) tbh.
> 
> I know they don't offer full protection but I feel it would have been a sensible precaution.
> 
> I'll be carrying on as I am for the foreseeable future to maintain the "bubble" round my household.


I agree, I know they say they don't protect you but stops you spreading to others so it's the same thing really in reverse, it's stopping the spread.


----------



## rona

Apart from Kayaking, and opening up a few more walk areas, all that would have been safe during the worst period.
I still won't be going into shops or even town, I'm not working, I'll still pay for fuel at the pump and only use retail outlets that bring goods to the door and clean or quarantine all letters and parcels.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> *We know what the result will be - a spike in cases. Plenty of evidence around the world for that. The only question is how big the spike will be.*
> 
> Quite honestly, although I'd have preferred no relaxation just yet to give our exhausted NHS a chance to rest a bit, the type of relaxations don't concern me half as much as the manner in which they have been delivered. At times like this you need clear, concise instructions, not the convoluted and confusing waffle we got. When you're seeing dozens of posts on social media trying to clarify what was meant (and often conflicting), then I think it's safe to say the message was not well communicated.
> 
> In particular, the watering down of the slogan makes no psychological sense. "Stay home" is clear and easy to understand. 'Stay alert' means precisely nothing, and the change will actively encourate a significant number of people to stop staying home (as we saw on the tube this morning). I suspect there will also be abuse of the new exercise and meeting up permissions - well, we saw how badly things went last time people were allowed to gather in public areas 'as long as they followed social distancing', didn't we?
> 
> So yeah, I may be in England, but I'm going to be pretending I'm in Scotland and carrying on as if nothing has changed.


The bold part of your post means we absolutely don't know what the result will be, yes an increase in cases, but if people are still social distancing as they are supposed to, then it might be able to be dealt with. We can't compare ourselves to other countries. That's been said time and time again.

We need relaxation of the restrictions, otherwise the economy is going to go under, and that will cause more deaths than Covid-19 has.

I agree the change in slogan is nonsensical though.

The point has been made before - you aren't being FORCED to return to normal, so feel free to pretend you are in Scotland, haggis for dinner it is (stereotype alert!).


----------



## MilleD

I have a bit of a dilemma.

My stepdad's house that has been on the market since November 2018 finally had an offer made on it and accepted literally just before the lockdown was imposed and there are still things in it that we need to clear.

What's people's opinions on driving the 3.5 hour journey there to clear some personal items then video chat the buyers to discuss what they are happy with us leaving?

They have already said we can leave things and they will get them cleared, but there is still quite a lot of stuff I will need to collect.

I can do the journey without stopping at a service station, and myself and my OH were each going to take our own cars to fill so we aren't mixing with anyone else.

I know we have been told that we can move house if absolutely necessary and done using social distancing etc, and I really don't want to lose this sale.

Do you think it's doable?


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> I have a bit of a dilemma.
> 
> My stepdad's house that has been on the market since November 2018 finally had an offer made on it and accepted literally just before the lockdown was imposed and there are still things in it that we need to clear.
> 
> What's people's opinions on driving the 3.5 hour journey there to clear some personal items then video chat the buyers to discuss what they are happy with us leaving?
> 
> They have already said we can leave things and they will get them cleared, but there is still quite a lot of stuff I will need to collect.
> 
> I can do the journey without stopping at a service station, and myself and my OH were each going to take our own cars to fill so we aren't mixing with anyone else.
> 
> I know we have been told that we can move house if absolutely necessary and done using social distancing etc, and I really don't want to lose this sale.
> 
> Do you think it's doable?


Personally I'd do it, I don't see why you shouldn't. There are other things going on in life that are still important. Hope it all goes through for you all, selling houses can be stressful enough in 'normal' circumstances


----------



## margy

I'm concerned about the meeting of people in the park, given that our park is quite small I have visions of the whole town descending on the park to meet their mother. I don't see how you can't meet in your garden even if you stand at the gate and family at their door. People around here have been doing that anyway.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> Personally I'd do it, I don't see why you shouldn't. There are other things going on in life that are still important. Hope it all goes through for you all, selling houses can be stressful enough in 'normal' circumstances


I think that's where I'm headed too.

My sister is dead against it which isn't helping. We were going to hire a van, but as much as they say they are cleaned after each use, I don't want to take the risk really.


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> I think that's where I'm headed too.
> 
> My sister is dead against it which isn't helping. We were going to hire a van, but as much as they say they are cleaned after each use, I don't want to take the risk really.


Why is she against it? Tbh you will have different opinions from different people so ultimately have to make your decision based on your best judgement.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> Why is she against it? Tbh you will have different opinions from different people so ultimately have to make your decision based on *your best judgement*.


That's what I was worried about :Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Just sit and watch the US for a few weeks see how it goes here. We've relaxed a lot of restrictions we'll have a good idea how that works out for us here soon.
> Oh wait...


This morning it' was reported that Germany since the restrictions were relaxed has had a spike in the number of infections, which if I'm correct was 1000 new cases.

Restrictions for the Hungarian countryside were relaxed 8 days ago, and I'm watching the daily figures to see if there is an increase in new cases. One of the new regulations was that everyone must wear face masks in public and in my region everyone was given two washable ones. It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on the figures.


----------



## rona

margy said:


> I'm concerned about the meeting of people in the park, given that our park is quite small I have visions of the whole town descending on the park to meet their mother. I don't see how you can't meet in your garden even if you stand at the gate and family at their door. People around here have been doing that anyway.


I saw Matt Hancock interviewed about this this morning and he was awful, just awful in the reply he gave.
My understanding is that the main issue with meeting in someones garden is the viral load.


----------



## Cleo38

margy said:


> I'm concerned about the meeting of people in the park, given that our park is quite small I have visions of the whole town descending on the park to meet their mother. I don't see how you can't meet in your garden even if you stand at the gate and family at their door. People around here have been doing that anyway.


Depends on how big your garden is tho. I could quite easily have a fiend round to sit in my garden whilst easily adhering to social distancing. I don't understand how it's ok to go to a park & mix with strangers but you can't go to see family/friends if you keep the same level of social distancing. I think it's laughable & can see why people are ignoring the 'rule' tbh


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> 'Take 1 dozen eggs'....!


Making omelettes Susie?:Happy


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I could quite easily have a fiend round


 Good luck with that!


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Good luck with that!


Hahahahaha! Always make a good typo


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> Making omelettes Susie?:Happy


As I recall most of Mrs Beeton's recipes started with that instruction.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cleo38 said:


> Depends on how big your garden is tho. I could quite easily have a fiend round to sit in my garden whilst easily adhering to social distancing. I don't understand how it's ok to go to a park & mix with strangers but you can't go to see family/friends if you keep the same level of social distancing. I think it's laughable & can see why people are ignoring the 'rule' tbh


Living in Hungary where family is extremely important and you often find several generations living together, I find the UK ruling hard to understand. Here, anyone over 65 is considered vulnerable and told to stay at home and only shop between the hours of 9 am to 12 noon as those hours are reserved exclusively for the 65's and older.

Providing social distancing is observed there's no restriction on family or social services assisting the elderly in their homes. I don't need assistance to do my household tasks or cook meals, but if I did, I could have help in the house 5 days a week.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> The point has been made before - you aren't being FORCED to return to normal, so feel free to pretend you are in Scotland, haggis for dinner it is (stereotype alert!).


I love haggis!  I've done three Burns night speeches inthe past as well, my quarter Scot serves me well 

Thankfully no, I'm not being forced to return to work. I'm in a key industry, can work fine from home (and have been since before lockdown officially began), and my employers have sense. However, it is very likely some WILL be forced to return to work - the ones with jobs that can't be done at home whi can't afford to stay at home unpaid, for example. If it's a choice between working and risking infection or unpaid leave/losing your job, chances are they are going to choose to work. Less than ethical employers who regard employees as work units that can be replaced when necessary (and there are plenty of them around) won't be concerned about losing a few people either way.

Interestingly, I read a study last night that demonstrated social distancing is largely ineffective in an office building, as the contained nature of the environment causes the viral load to build up rather than disperse, resulting in far higher exposure levels than you would get outdoors or even in a shop or supermarket. This is part of the reasoning behind allowing socially distand meetups in public spaces, but not allowing people to visit others houses or gardens.


----------



## Cully

People are complaining about why didn't Boris give clearer guidelines on 'this', and why wasn't there more clarity on 'that', and what am I to do in my own circumstances? There was a promise of a 50 page document to follow Sundays broadcast, expanding on all these details and more, so unless people were prepared to sit and listen for however long it took Boris to read through 50 pages, it was unrealistic to expect answers to everything in a 10 minute broadcast on Sunday night.
Two words that Boris kept using were 'common sense'. Now my understanding of the new rules are that we have been given the opportunity to open the lockdown a little, but how far we personally take that rather depends on our own circumstances and our interpretation of how to make it appropriate in our own lives. That means by applying our own common sense.
It would be an impossible task for government to try and tailor the new regime for each individual person in their own circumstances. It was easier to make hard and fast rules going into lockdown because it was 'one size fits all'. Now, we have some leeway, and have to work out how we can best fit our lives around this new bit of freedom, but in a common sense way which keeps everyone safe. If it doesn't feel safe, don't do it! If there's something (within reason) you want to do, then use common sense to see if it can be done safely, without risk to anyone. If it doesn't feel quite right, don't do it.Common sense!
It's important to be cautious (be alert) with this new bit of freedom. If the new guidelines don't contain something specific to your own circumstances then don't presume you can do whatever you like. Use common sense to tell you what is safe.
If it all goes well with the new bit of freedom, then in the coming weeks we can expect more and more. But if we throw caution to the wind, we risk a spike in more cases and deaths, an overwhelmed NHS, and another extended lockdown.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I have a bit of a dilemma.
> 
> My stepdad's house that has been on the market since November 2018 finally had an offer made on it and accepted literally just before the lockdown was imposed and there are still things in it that we need to clear.
> 
> What's people's opinions on driving the 3.5 hour journey there to clear some personal items then video chat the buyers to discuss what they are happy with us leaving?
> 
> They have already said we can leave things and they will get them cleared, but there is still quite a lot of stuff I will need to collect.
> 
> I can do the journey without stopping at a service station, and myself and my OH were each going to take our own cars to fill so we aren't mixing with anyone else.
> 
> I know we have been told that we can move house if absolutely necessary and done using social distancing etc, and I really don't want to lose this sale.
> 
> Do you think it's doable?


I think that's reasonable tbh.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I think that's reasonable tbh.


Thanks.

I can't tell you how excited I am to go for a drive. The things we miss eh?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> Depends on how big your garden is tho. I could quite easily have a fiend round to sit in my garden whilst easily adhering to social distancing. I don't understand how it's ok to go to a park & mix with strangers but you can't go to see family/friends if you keep the same level of social distancing. I think it's laughable & can see why people are ignoring the 'rule' tbh


Maybe in a "home" environment of our own gardens people will become complacent and boundaries will disappear?

I believe it's very much "give an inch and they'll take a mile" with too many people.

If people do take liberties and infection numbers start going up, full Lockdown can and should be reinstated.

It's up to us all to be sensible and cautious.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe in a "home" environment of our own gardens people will become complacent and boundaries will disappear?
> 
> I believe it's very much "give an inch and they'll take a mile" with too many people.
> 
> *If people do take liberties and infection numbers start going up, full Lockdown can and should be reinstated.*
> 
> It's up to us all to be sensible and cautious.


I imagine that's the whole reason behind the alert levels. Sound the air raid siren of the level and everyone will be back in.


----------



## Magyarmum

An interesting article and video from Japan showing how the virus can be transmitted

https://boon.hu/kozelet/helyi-kozel...IHY_VxGQEQ10YIt3xgWXGWrUhip0uJSU9tDox1gERhcTY


----------



## kimthecat

Contacted my vet today and they are going to do Libby's teeth cleaning tomorrow. That's a relief as a couple were loose.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> People are complaining about why didn't Boris give clearer guidelines on 'this', and why wasn't there more clarity on 'that', and what am I to do in my own circumstances? There was a promise of a 50 page document to follow Sundays broadcast, expanding on all these details and more, so unless people were prepared to sit and listen for however long it took Boris to read through 50 pages, it was unrealistic to expect answers to everything in a 10 minute broadcast on Sunday night.
> Two words that Boris kept using were 'common sense'. Now my understanding of the new rules are that we have been given the opportunity to open the lockdown a little, but how far we personally take that rather depends on our own circumstances and our interpretation of how to make it appropriate in our own lives. That means by applying our own common sense.
> It would be an impossible task for government to try and tailor the new regime for each individual person in their own circumstances. It was easier to make hard and fast rules going into lockdown because it was 'one size fits all'. Now, we have some leeway, and have to work out how we can best fit our lives around this new bit of freedom, but in a common sense way which keeps everyone safe. If it doesn't feel safe, don't do it! If there's something (within reason) you want to do, then use common sense to see if it can be done safely, without risk to anyone. If it doesn't feel quite right, don't do it.Common sense!
> It's important to be cautious (be alert) with this new bit of freedom. If the new guidelines don't contain something specific to your own circumstances then don't presume you can do whatever you like. Use common sense to tell you what is safe.
> If it all goes well with the new bit of freedom, then in the coming weeks we can expect more and more. But if we throw caution to the wind, we risk a spike in more cases and deaths, an overwhelmed NHS, and another extended lockdown.


Exactly, if it safer to use your own garden to see relatives than going to a potentially crowded public place then it makes common sense to do so!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

kimthecat said:


> Contacted my vet today and they are going to do Libby's teeth cleaning tomorrow. That's a relief as a couple were loose.


 Oh that is good! I am hoping my vets relax their procedures a bit, my Husband says he doesn't think our boy has improved as much as he would have expected, he was seen last week but no follow up visit just via phone, I think he needs to be actually seen again.


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> Exactly, if it safer to use your own garden to see relatives than going to a potentially crowded public place then it makes common sense to do so!


Perhaps it's based on time and the impact that might have on increasing the viral load?

If you meet in the park, you might stay there for half an hour or so, if someone comes to your garden they could stay all day.

Just a thought.


----------



## Cully

I did feel very sorry while watching Breakfast this morning for those living locally to holiday attractions etc. They were really scared that the easing of lockdown and no restrictions on travelling for pleasure would bring unmanageable crowds to seaside towns and the likes of the Lake District. 
Excursions should be kept local for now.


----------



## Cleo38

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe in a "home" environment of our own gardens people will become complacent and boundaries will disappear?
> 
> I believe it's very much "give an inch and they'll take a mile" with too many people.
> 
> If people do take liberties and infection numbers start going up, full Lockdown can and should be reinstated.
> 
> It's up to us all to be sensible and cautious.


Maybe but I think too much is being dumped on people making a few bad/ill informed choices & being blamed for infection rates simply to detract from bad decisions being made by the government/industries/businesses. I'm one of those who is making my own choices (as I have done throughout). I haven't been in contact with anyone since lockdown other than my mum & then in the past 2wks my sister & nurses (my mum is seriously ill & had to be moved to a hospice then nursing home). I have continued to take my dogs out twice a day & go for a run. I am lucky in that where I live means I can do that without meeting anyone or putting them at risk (it's private land I have access to).

I know that angers lots of people but ….


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> Perhaps it's based on time and the impact that might have on increasing the viral load?
> 
> If you meet in the park, you might stay there for half an hour or so, if someone comes to your garden they could stay all day.
> 
> Just a thought.


That is where the common sense that Cully was referring to comes in, staying for a little while in a private garden is common sense, stopping all day is less so, like wise staying all day in a public place isn't common sense and certainly not if it is busy!


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> That is where the common sense that Cully was referring to comes in, staying for a little while in a private garden is common sense, stopping all day is less so, like wise staying all day in a public place isn't common sense and certainly not if it is busy!


It's far easier to flout the rules though when concealed on your own property.


----------



## MilleD

My OH works for Bentley, this is what they have put in place to ensure their staff are safe. And I know some things won't be doable for some companies due to money/space, but it's an excellent example of what can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-700-staff-restart-luxury-car-production.html


----------



## Cully

3dogs2cats said:


> That is where the common sense that Cully was referring to comes in, staying for a little while in a private garden is common sense, stopping all day is less so, like wise staying all day in a public place isn't common sense and certainly not if it is busy!


@MilleD

I think if you are prepared and able to 'police' your arrangements safely then it's ok. If you start to worry about something, send them home. You are more in charge of your own situation but not in a public place which may become worryingly overcrowded.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> It's far easier to flout the rules though when concealed on your own property.


Not with the curtain twitchers  but I am referring to common sense, if it feels safer to met up in your own private garden than risk going out in a public place that is what people will do.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> It's far easier to flout the rules though when concealed on your own property.


But not 'common sense', which was the point I was making.


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> Not with the curtain twitchers  but I am referring to common sense, if it feels safer to met up in your own private garden than risk going out in a public place that is what people will do.


My sister has turned into an awful curtain twitcher. I get regular updates on what folks in her street are doing. Which I have told her I'm not interested in!


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> But not 'common sense', which was the point I was making.


I know, but sadly, common sense isn't that common is it?


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> My OH works for Bentley, this is what they have put in place to ensure their staff are safe. And I know some things won't be doable for some companies due to money/space, but it's an excellent example of what can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time.
> 
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-700-staff-restart-luxury-car-production.html


That's great. We have construction sites still open (I work in the water industry) & it's working well for us so far regarding initial excavation works. Not sure how some of the mechanical installations will be carried out but they have made lots of changes & are very innovative in their working. Safety of workers is always first priority anyway but this just means a bit more extra thought, extra cabins for communal areas so social distancing can still be adhered to. Certain things are taking longer so there will be an added cost though which will be highlighted


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> My sister has turned into an awful curtain twitcher. I get regular updates on what folks in her street are doing. Which I have told her I'm not interested in!


I'm not a curtain twitchier but from where my chair is I can see out the window and I noticed three houses up the road, have visitors everyday some of them staying for hours.


----------



## westie~ma

MilleD said:


> My OH works for Bentley, this is what they have put in place to ensure their staff are safe. And I know some things won't be doable for some companies due to money/space, but it's an excellent example of what can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time.
> 
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-700-staff-restart-luxury-car-production.html


My dh's factories have gone back too. They have implemented the same measures as Bentley. Pinch points are the stairwells, lifts and corridors but masks help with that.

Its not ideal but this is the world we are living in atm.

Dh has worked from home throughout this and while they are back on site he still works two or three days a week on site the rest is from home. Being in charge of the businesses covid response has been stressful, I knew he worked hard but actually seeing the hours he puts in I'm not sure where he gets his energy from.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> That's great. We have construction sites still open (I work in the water industry) & it's working well for us so far regarding initial excavation works. Not sure how some of the mechanical installations will be carried out but they have made lots of changes & are very innovative in their working. Safety of workers is always first priority anyway but this just means a bit more extra thought, extra cabins for communal areas so social distancing can still be adhered to. Certain things are taking longer so there will be an added cost though which will be highlighted


I work for the county council and have been working from home. We hot desk at work which has been flagged as a huge no no, infection wise. I've seen the cleaners use the same rag for 14 buildings so there's no way I would trust them to deep clean each desk every night.

So think I'll stay here for bit, unfortunately, I have a new member of my team starting at the beginning of June which is going to be interesting!

We have estimated total costs due to the virus to be in the region of £50-60million. A chunk of this is being funded by the government with additional grant money, but we will still probably be around £12m or so short. That added to the austerity we have had in recent years is going to be difficult to fund.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I know, but sadly, common sense isn't that common is it?


 Oh I don't know. But this is a bit different from being naughty and nipping round the back of the shop for a crafty *** though.


----------



## MissKittyKat

MilleD said:


> My OH works for Bentley, this is what they have put in place to ensure their staff are safe. And I know some things won't be doable for some companies due to money/space, but it's an excellent example of what can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time.
> 
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-700-staff-restart-luxury-car-production.html


You mustn't be far from my original home down. I have some school friends that work at Bentley.


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> I work for the county council and have been working from home. We hot desk at work which has been flagged as a huge no no, infection wise. I've seen the cleaners use the same rag for 14 buildings so there's no way I would trust them to deep clean each desk every night.
> 
> So think I'll stay here for bit, unfortunately, I have a new member of my team starting at the beginning of June which is going to be interesting!
> 
> We have estimated total costs due to the virus to be in the region of £50-60million. A chunk of this is being funded by the government with additional grant money, but we will still probably be around £12m or so short. That added to the austerity we have had in recent years is going to be difficult to fund.


Yes, when I'm in the office (I usually work from home 1-2 days a week anyway) we have to hot desk (except me as I have back problems so have a fixed desk as I have a 'special' chair). Hot desking is a terrible idea & lots of us argued against it for many reasons but as desk space is a problem where I work then I could understand why management tried to implement this. However, I have worked there for 10yrs &^ the cleaning is almost non-existent. I don't blame the cleaners as I know they only have a certain amount of time in which to clean a whole floor so just aren't able to do a good job. We've had to have to carpets sprayed several times due to flea/lice as lots of us got bitten a couple of years ago, the desks are filthy, the door handles you see the grime on them ….. having said that it never really bothered me before but no way can that continue if we have to go back.

Luckily I'm working from home for the foreseeable future & I think even when things become more 'normal' then I will still work from home most of the week (at least that's what I'm hoping for!!!)


----------



## MilleD

MissKittyKat said:


> You mustn't be far from my original home down. I have some school friends that work at Bentley.


I actually live in Stafford, but the OH lives in Holmes Chapel which is just a hop skip and a jump away from Crewe.


----------



## MissKittyKat

MilleD said:


> I actually live in Stafford, but the OH lives in Holmes Chapel which is just a hop skip and a jump away from Crewe.


Going off topic but I'm a Cheshire lass, family still live there.

Spent many a night in Hanley as a youth!


----------



## MilleD

MissKittyKat said:


> Going off topic but I'm a Cheshire lass, family still live there.
> 
> Spent many a night in Hanley as a youth!


And me 

Up 'anley duck?


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Perhaps it's based on time and the impact that might have on increasing the viral load?
> 
> If you meet in the park, you might stay there for half an hour or so, if someone comes to your garden they could stay all day.
> 
> Just a thought.


Trouble is there are so many variables and people can't be relied upon to make sensible choices, as has been proved time and again.

Apparently, the reason they did not say to meet in our gardens is because some are only reached via the house.

You and I might think about that and would not walk through another's house, and so not visit - I can guarantee many won't.


----------



## catz4m8z

TBH I think its probably getting near crunch time for the economy now. As a country we cant afford to stay locked down forever, certainly not for the length of time it takes to discover a vaccine.
Using common sense about social distancing and limiting contact with most people is going to be the new norm. I also fully expect there to be pockets of outbreaks in factories and businesses, its kinda inevitable with this kind of virus. What can we do though?? Its going to be all about limiting your risk whilst trying to get back to as normal as possible.


----------



## Magyarmum

For all you Nottingham folks a summary of all the rules now in place!


----------



## mrs phas

This is the reason I still won't be meeting up with anyone, 2m apart or not
Big difference happening right under our noses

BBC News - Coronavirus: How many people have died in the UK?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52623141

(Posted for reality of, Gov. daily information numbers, purposes only)


----------



## kimthecat

3dogs2cats said:


> Oh that is good! I am hoping my vets relax their procedures a bit, my Husband says he doesn't think our boy has improved as much as he would have expected, he was seen last week but no follow up visit just via phone, I think he needs to be actually seen again.


Im sorry to hear that. I hope they will see him again. I think they should do. Libby was slobbering so I think that swayed it . It became more than non - emergency


----------



## SusieRainbow

Magyarmum said:


> For all you Nottingham folks a summary of all the rules now in place!


You gorrit missus !


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> This is the reason I still won't be meeting up with anyone, 2m apart or not
> Big difference happening right under our noses
> 
> BBC News - Coronavirus: How many people have died in the UK?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52623141
> 
> (Posted for reality of, Gov. daily information numbers, purposes only)


Which is your prerogative.

But if the economy is left to collapse, that will cause more deaths eventually than Covid-19 will. Some of which might already be in those figures posted in that article.


----------



## Siskin

A friend has just sent me this which I think clears up all the confusion (not)




I think I’ve worked it out...

* 4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for their tuition and the accommodation that they aren’t living in, can’t go back to university.

* I could go to school with many 4 year olds that I’m not related to but can’t see one 4 year old that I am related to.

* I can sit in a park - not tomorrow, but by Wednesday that’ll be fine.

* I can meet one person from another household for a chat or to sunbathe but not two people so if I know two people from another household I have to pick my favourite. Hopefully, I’m also their favourite person from my household or this could be awkward. But possibly I’m not. In fact, thinking about it, I definitely wouldn’t be. But as I can’t go closer than 2m to the one I choose anyway so you wouldn’t think having the other one sat next to them would matter - unless two people would restrict my eyeline too much and prevent me from being alert.

* I can work all day with my colleagues but I can’t sit in their garden for a chat after work.

* I can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day felt like I was some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn’t one of them.

* I can drive to other destinations although which destinations is unclear. I would like to be in Cornwall this weekend. Can I drive there? It’s hundreds of miles away but no one has said that’s wrong.

* The buses are still running but I shouldn’t get on one. We should just let empty buses drive around so bus drivers aren’t doing nothing.

* It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air... but not yet. It’s too soon. And not ever if you’re coming from France because... well, I don’t know why actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn’t come to the UK maybe.

* Our youngest children go back to school first because... they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

* We are somewhere in between 3.5 and 4.5 on a five point scale where 5 is all of the virus and 1 is none of the virus but 2,3 and 4 can be anything you’d like it to be really. Some of the virus? A bit of the virus? Just enough virus to see off those over 70s who were told to self isolate but now we’ve realised that they’ve done that a bit too well despite us offloading coronavirus patients into care homes and now we are claiming that was never said in the first place, even though it’s in writing in the stay at home guidance.

* The slogan isn’t stay at home any more.So we don’t have to stay at home. Except we do. Unless we can’t. In which case we should go out. But there will be fines if we break the rules. So don’t do that.

Don’t forget...

Stay alert... which Robert Jenrick has explained actually means 'stay home as much as possible'. Obviously.

Control the virus. Well, I can’t even control my dog and I can actually see him. Plus I know a bit about dogs and very little about controlling viruses.

Save lives. Always preferable to not saving lives, I’d say, so I’ll try my best with that
one, although hopefully I don’t need telling to do that. I know I’m bragging now but not NOT saving lives is something I do every day.

So there you are. If you’re the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> So there you are. If you're the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously


That's me :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Magyarmum

SusieRainbow said:


> You gorrit missus !


Off topic.... I belong to an FB group called pictures and memories of Nottingham. It's a lively and interesting group to belong to and takes your mind of the present situation!

And now I'll gerroffinit owr Susie


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> Which is your prerogative.
> 
> But if the economy is left to collapse, that will cause more deaths eventually than Covid-19 will. Some of which might already be in those figures posted in that article.


I agree, people are already dying or being neglected because of services not running or being reduced. We need to look at how people can get back to work safely but relatively quickly. Some industries/businesses will prove more difficult but there are always options that can help a lot of employers/employees


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cleo38 said:


> I agree, people are already dying or being neglected because of services not running or being reduced. We need to look at how people can get back to work safely but relatively quickly. Some industries/businesses will prove more difficult but there are always options that can help a lot of employers/employees


I don't understand why the guidance on how businesses can work safely wasn't produced and promoted earlier. As far as I understand ( and I admit I have not been following the news in any great detail) none of the businesses being urged to get back to work this week were ever told to close, except garden centres. Lots of businesses may have stayed open or only closed for a short while if they had been given guidance and clarity earlier.


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> A friend has just sent me this which I think clears up all the confusion (not)
> 
> I think I've worked it out...
> 
> * 4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for their tuition and the accommodation that they aren't living in, can't go back to university.
> 
> * I could go to school with many 4 year olds that I'm not related to but can't see one 4 year old that I am related to.
> 
> * I can sit in a park - not tomorrow, but by Wednesday that'll be fine.
> 
> * I can meet one person from another household for a chat or to sunbathe but not two people so if I know two people from another household I have to pick my favourite. Hopefully, I'm also their favourite person from my household or this could be awkward. But possibly I'm not. In fact, thinking about it, I definitely wouldn't be. But as I can't go closer than 2m to the one I choose anyway so you wouldn't think having the other one sat next to them would matter - unless two people would restrict my eyeline too much and prevent me from being alert.
> 
> * I can work all day with my colleagues but I can't sit in their garden for a chat after work.
> 
> * I can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day felt like I was some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn't one of them.
> 
> * I can drive to other destinations although which destinations is unclear. I would like to be in Cornwall this weekend. Can I drive there? It's hundreds of miles away but no one has said that's wrong.
> 
> * The buses are still running but I shouldn't get on one. We should just let empty buses drive around so bus drivers aren't doing nothing.
> 
> * It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air... but not yet. It's too soon. And not ever if you're coming from France because... well, I don't know why actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn't come to the UK maybe.
> 
> * Our youngest children go back to school first because... they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn't, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.
> 
> * We are somewhere in between 3.5 and 4.5 on a five point scale where 5 is all of the virus and 1 is none of the virus but 2,3 and 4 can be anything you'd like it to be really. Some of the virus? A bit of the virus? Just enough virus to see off those over 70s who were told to self isolate but now we've realised that they've done that a bit too well despite us offloading coronavirus patients into care homes and now we are claiming that was never said in the first place, even though it's in writing in the stay at home guidance.
> 
> * The slogan isn't stay at home any more.So we don't have to stay at home. Except we do. Unless we can't. In which case we should go out. But there will be fines if we break the rules. So don't do that.
> 
> Don't forget...
> 
> Stay alert... which Robert Jenrick has explained actually means 'stay home as much as possible'. Obviously.
> 
> Control the virus. Well, I can't even control my dog and I can actually see him. Plus I know a bit about dogs and very little about controlling viruses.
> 
> Save lives. Always preferable to not saving lives, I'd say, so I'll try my best with that
> one, although hopefully I don't need telling to do that. I know I'm bragging now but not NOT saving lives is something I do every day.
> 
> So there you are. If you're the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously


:Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

We had a phone call from our GP surgery this afternoon, to see if we were OK, if we needed anything or if we have any problems to let them know. Which I thought was very nice of them.


----------



## Cleo38

3dogs2cats said:


> I don't understand why the guidance on how businesses can work safely wasn't produced and promoted earlier. As far as I understand ( and I admit I have not been following the news in any great detail) none of the businesses being urged to get back to work this week were ever told to close, except garden centres. Lots of businesses may have stayed open or only closed for a short while if they had been given guidance and clarity earlier.


Definitely! At the hospice my mum was recently at I admired the gardens there & was told that they had volunteers helping keep it tidy as the company they used had furloughed their staff. Neither I or the nurse could understand why as the company was mainly used for small businesses (& other care/nursing homes in the area) so could easily have carried on with their work. They still had contracts to fulfil so it wasn't as if there wasn't any work. Surely simple gardening is one of those jobs that can easily be done whilst observing serving social distancing … crazy!


----------



## rona

Cleo38 said:


> Surely simple gardening is one of those jobs that can easily be done whilst observing serving social distancing … crazy!


Yes, but when this started, only those that were essential workers were allowed to work.
OH does an outdoor job, but had a bad back when all this started, so had 5 weeks off anyway, he went back 3weeks ago and this week will be his first full week back


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Definitely! At the hospice my mum was recently at I admired the gardens there & was told that they had volunteers helping keep it tidy as the company they used had furloughed their staff. Neither I or the nurse could understand why as the company was mainly used for small businesses (& other care/nursing homes in the area) so could easily have carried on with their work. They still had contracts to fulfil so it wasn't as if there wasn't any work. Surely simple gardening is one of those jobs that can easily be done whilst observing serving social distancing … crazy!


My neighbour is a gardener mainly at large country houses (second homes in a number of cases) and he's continued working all the time. He's often the only person there and at the places where someone else is about it's easy to self isolate and shout instructions to one another. He uses all his own tools which are kept in his van so no cross contamination issues. He emails the owners or phones them to pass on what he has been doing and if there's anything they want doing in particular.


----------



## lullabydream

Cleo38 said:


> Definitely! At the hospice my mum was recently at I admired the gardens there & was told that they had volunteers helping keep it tidy as the company they used had furloughed their staff. Neither I or the nurse could understand why as the company was mainly used for small businesses (& other care/nursing homes in the area) so could easily have carried on with their work. They still had contracts to fulfil so it wasn't as if there wasn't any work. Surely simple gardening is one of those jobs that can easily be done whilst observing serving social distancing … crazy!


Is it the bigger picture of schools closed though, and other lockdown measures

My ickle nephews nan, works as a carer at a nursing home and the same happened there. The company furloughed its employees, but some couldn't work due to a variety of reasons childcare and vulnerability was two of them. Nephews nan is loving it, because she's getting time to do the garden now. She's a bit like superwoman. She's always wished she could have a large garden to play with. There are also some volunteers too. Especially helps to stress bust after working a shift.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

rona said:


> Yes, but when this started, only those that were essential workers were allowed to work.
> OH does such a job, but had a bad back when all this started, so had 5 weeks off anyway, he went back 3weeks ago and this week will be his first full week back


No Rona that is not correct the work did not have to be essential only the need to travel to get to work because it could not be done at home. Unfortunately that message got confused and many businesses that were none essential thought they had to close. I think if the message had been made clearer then many businesses could have found a safe working practise and either not closed at all or opened far quicker than this!


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> No Rona that is not correct the work did not have to be essential only the need to travel to get to work because it could not be done at home. Unfortunately that message got confused and many businesses that were none essential thought they had to close. I think if the message had been made clearer then many businesses could have found a safe working practise and either not closed at all or opened far quicker than this!


Yeah my husband has been working, he's engineering so manufacturing. 
His work has abided and can follow social distancing and do the same hours..

Another company he does contract work for, is the food side.. They maintain all the machinery so want for a better phrase.. You can get your daily bread. They have taken to doing shifts as soon as lockdown started..common sense strategy

Other firms in my area. Furloughed though because firms either didn't have common sense, space, man power due to lock down restraints and manufacturing engineering companies often work together. Also outside the UK. So work isn't coming in either. Huge problem for all concerned. I don't know if I live in a hugely engineering biased area, possibly.


----------



## Cleo38

lullabydream said:


> Is it the bigger picture of schools closed though, and other lockdown measures
> 
> My ickle nephews nan, works as a carer at a nursing home and the same happened there. The company furloughed its employees, but some couldn't work due to a variety of reasons childcare and vulnerability was two of them. Nephews nan is loving it, because she's getting time to do the garden now. She's a bit like superwoman. She's always wished she could have a large garden to play with. There are also some volunteers too. Especially helps to stress bust after working a shift.


Maybe for some but I doubt all. I can understand there was confusion & panic at the beginning, completely understandable but surely each job should be assessed by the employer/employee & with a few tweaks then many can return to the jobs. As I said some will be more difficult & obviously no one should be put in danger if they are vulnerable but many people have continued through this so am not sure why some workers are expected to carry on yet some people are not prepared to look at options. I understand that some people will be worried & that's not to be ignored but the fact is we can't continue like this


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> We had a phone call from our GP surgery this afternoon, to see if we were OK, if we needed anything or if we have any problems to let them know. Which I thought was very nice of them.


People are so afraid of using their surgeries at present, maybe your Dr's are trying to drum up trade. 5 stars for trying.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> My OH works for Bentley, this is what they have put in place to ensure their staff are safe. And I know some things won't be doable for some companies due to money/space, but it's an excellent example of what can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time.
> 
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-700-staff-restart-luxury-car-production.html


my brother works in engineering making parts for F1 and motoring industry, he's been able to work throughout though his wife is now shielding so he's more worried than he was. I've also been working, fortunately from home and for the University here. What's been interesting is how it's changing the future of the workplace. I'm used to running my business online, I have numerous clients who I have never met, but for many friends used to being in an office 9-5, it's been a pleasant change. I hope that companies will look at how they work as it can only be good for environment.

Does your OH get a discount... please say you get chauffeured in a Bentley


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Does your OH get a discount... please say you get chauffeured in a Bentley


We have a Bentley!

Not a big posh motor though, just our motorhome designed and made by the Bentley father and son who sadly went bankrupt some years ago. There was only about a 100 or so made so rarity value if nothing else. They are very well designed and made though


----------



## Rafa

Under normal circumstances, I volunteer one full day a week for Cancer Research UK, in one of their shops.

I don't work in the shop itself, but in the office. I do their week's admin for them.

As a result of CRUK shops being closed, they are losing circa £1,250.000 a week. One and a quarter million pounds a week not going to research into cancer.

Such things are real considerations when any decision is taken on when to allow shops to reopen.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> We have a Bentley!
> 
> Not a big posh motor though, just our motorhome designed and made by the Bentley father and son who sadly went bankrupt some years ago. There was only about a 100 or so made so rarity value if nothing else. They are very well designed and made though


I curtesy to you and your motor home  I would love a motorhome!

- My late grandparents had a Rolls Royce, for their wedding car business, hideous thing to drive and a sod to clean out.


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> We have a Bentley!
> 
> Not a big posh motor though, just our motorhome designed and made by the Bentley father and son who sadly went bankrupt some years ago. There was only about a 100 or so made so rarity value if nothing else. They are very well designed and made though


Oooh, do you have any pics of it? I would love a motor home


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Oooh, do you have any pics of it? I would love a motor home


Here tis


----------



## Cleo38

Wow, thats very nice @Siskin ! Its my dream to have something like that & just take myself & the dogs off somewhere for a holiday


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Here tis
> 
> View attachment 439378


That's lovely!


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> Definitely! At the hospice my mum was recently at I admired the gardens there & was told that they had volunteers helping keep it tidy as the company they used had furloughed their staff. Neither I or the nurse could understand why as the company was mainly used for small businesses (& other care/nursing homes in the area) so could easily have carried on with their work. They still had contracts to fulfil so it wasn't as if there wasn't any work. Surely simple gardening is one of those jobs that can easily be done whilst observing serving social distancing … crazy!


It's possible they couldn't get raw materials. A friend of mine is a gardener, and he's been unable to get any kind of landscaping material since this started because all the trade suppliers have closed as they couldn't comply with social distancing.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> It's possible they couldn't get raw materials. A friend of mine is a gardener, and he's been unable to get any kind of landscaping material since this started because all the trade suppliers have closed as they couldn't comply with social distancing.


Part of the reason Bentley hasn't reopened until now is because they have had to get their supply chain ducks in a row.

Ironically, they have been aided by the fact they started stockpiling parts when Brexit started to look like Just In Time stock control might be difficult.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> my brother works in engineering making parts for F1 and motoring industry, he's been able to work throughout though his wife is now shielding so he's more worried than he was. I've also been working, fortunately from home and for the University here. What's been interesting is how it's changing the future of the workplace. I'm used to running my business online, I have numerous clients who I have never met, but for many friends used to being in an office 9-5, it's been a pleasant change. I hope that companies will look at how they work as it can only be good for environment.
> 
> Does your OH get a discount... please say you get chauffeured in a Bentley


Sadly no 

Although he does get a brand new car every six months, it isn't a Bentley 

I'm not sure if he gets a discount, I don't think he has asked!! :Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

If anyone


MilleD said:


> Sadly no
> 
> Although he does get a brand new car every six months, it isn't a Bentley
> 
> I'm not sure if he gets a discount, I don't think he has asked!! :Hilarious


 It'll probably be a key ring!


----------



## MollySmith

Oh dear.... there are always idiots. This was on Twitter this morning. If you are in Bristol I guess assume it's for real and stay well away.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> View attachment 439411
> 
> 
> Oh dear.... there are always idiots. This was on Twitter this morning. If you are in Bristol I guess assume it's for real and stay well away.


I'm almost lost for words, if they go on like that we'll soon be in lockdown again.


----------



## LinznMilly

I've been shielded. :Lurking Got the letter yesterday. 

I expected it, because I phoned Public Health England a few days before the letters were supposed to be sent out, but when mine never came, I thought I mustn't have been in a high enough risk. 

In some ways, it's a relief. No more uncertainty around work. Now I know I won't be going back to work until 30 June - the date on my letter.

In other ways, though, it's put me in a tail spin. What about the dogs? I've been taking them for 10min toilet breaks all this time. Should I ask my brother to take them? Should I just carry on doing what I have been? What about shopping? I do have family that will get it in for me, and they'd do their best, but when you ask your brother to get you some antihistamines and he comes back with laxatives . . .  :Hilarious :Wacky Looks like I'm going to have to go through all the questions again and say "No" to the question "Do you have family or friends who can get your shopping in for you?" :Bookworm


----------



## Happy Paws2

LinznMilly said:


> I've been shielded. :Lurking Got the letter yesterday.
> 
> I expected it, because I phoned Public Health England a few days before the letters were supposed to be sent out, but when mine never came, I thought I mustn't have been in a high enough risk.
> 
> In some ways, it's a relief. No more uncertainty around work. Now I know I won't be going back to work until 30 June - the date on my letter.
> 
> In other ways, though, it's put me in a tail spin. What about the dogs? I've been taking them for 10min toilet breaks all this time. Should I ask my brother to take them? Should I just carry on doing what I have been? What about shopping? I do have family that will get it in for me, and they'd do their best, but when you ask your brother to get you some antihistamines and he comes back with laxatives . . .  :Hilarious :Wacky Looks like I'm going to have to go through all the questions again and say "No" to the question "Do you have family or friends who can get your shopping in for you?" :Bookworm


If your letter is the same as mine there is a government e-mail address you must register on there, then your local supermarket will in time get in touch with you (it took Sainsbury's about 8 days) use the web-site they give you and you get priority orders from them.

As for walking your dogs, as long as you can keep away from other people, I'd still give them their little walks the fresh air will do you good.


----------



## Cully

LinznMilly said:


> but when you ask your brother to get you some antihistamines and he comes back with laxatives . . .  :Hilarious :Wacky


I feel for you. Sent my son for bread and he came bag with a bag of spuds and some Wispa's. His excuse was that he knew we were having Jacket potatoes for tea.:Banghead Shoulda sent Misty!
As for walking your dogs, just carry on as normal and do what Boris says and use common sense. Oh and interpret the 'be alert' rule as 'look out for and avoid idiots'. I think that will see us through!
P.S. the Wispa was nice.


----------



## LinznMilly

Happy Paws2 said:


> If your letter is the same as mine there is a government e-mail address you must register on there, then your local supermarket will in time get in touch with you (it took Sainsbury's about 8 days) use the web-site they give you and you get priority orders from them.
> 
> As for walking your dogs, as long as you can keep away from other people, I'd still give them their little walks the fresh air will do you good.


Yeah, it sounds like it's the same letter. When I registered with the government website, I said "yes" to the question, "Do you have friends or family who can get your shopping in for you?"

That's reassuring, though @Happy Paws2 I'll look into it. 

Nice to know I can keep the girls with me because while it might be nice to have a day off from walking them :Bag, after that I'd miss them, and they do give me a reason to get up in the morning.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> If anyone
> 
> It'll probably be a key ring!


He's already got the keyring


----------



## Siskin

LinznMilly said:


> Yeah, it sounds like it's the same letter. When I registered with the government website, I said "yes" to the question, "Do you have friends or family who can get your shopping in for you?"
> 
> That's reassuring, though @Happy Paws2 I'll look into it.
> 
> Nice to know I can keep the girls with me because while it might be nice to have a day off from walking them :Bag, after that I'd miss them, and they do give me a reason to get up in the morning.


When I got my letter on the 25th of April it was suggested that I re register on the government site again and I could now tick the box for yes, I have had a letter from my gp. Precicisely nothing further has happened.
I ended up finding a phone number for Tesco's vulnerable people and gave them a ring, they were very helpful and immediately put me on their priority slot list.


----------



## Sacrechat

MilleD said:


> I have a bit of a dilemma.
> 
> My stepdad's house that has been on the market since November 2018 finally had an offer made on it and accepted literally just before the lockdown was imposed and there are still things in it that we need to clear.
> 
> What's people's opinions on driving the 3.5 hour journey there to clear some personal items then video chat the buyers to discuss what they are happy with us leaving?
> 
> They have already said we can leave things and they will get them cleared, but there is still quite a lot of stuff I will need to collect.
> 
> I can do the journey without stopping at a service station, and myself and my OH were each going to take our own cars to fill so we aren't mixing with anyone else.
> 
> I know we have been told that we can move house if absolutely necessary and done using social distancing etc, and I really don't want to lose this sale.
> 
> Do you think it's doable?


If you are not coming into contact with other people, then I don't see why not. I know it's farther than the government suggest, but some things just have to be done to keep the economy afloat.


----------



## Sacrechat

Jesthar said:


> I love haggis!  I've done three Burns night speeches inthe past as well, my quarter Scot serves me well
> 
> Thankfully no, I'm not being forced to return to work. I'm in a key industry, can work fine from home (and have been since before lockdown officially began), and my employers have sense. However, it is very likely some WILL be forced to return to work - the ones with jobs that can't be done at home whi can't afford to stay at home unpaid, for example. If it's a choice between working and risking infection or unpaid leave/losing your job, chances are they are going to choose to work. Less than ethical employers who regard employees as work units that can be replaced when necessary (and there are plenty of them around) won't be concerned about losing a few people either way.
> 
> Interestingly, I read a study last night that demonstrated social distancing is largely ineffective in an office building, as the contained nature of the environment causes the viral load to build up rather than disperse, resulting in far higher exposure levels than you would get outdoors or even in a shop or supermarket. This is part of the reasoning behind allowing socially distand meetups in public spaces, but not allowing people to visit others houses or gardens.


I still don't really understand how there can be a viral build up in a garden and not in a park. Both are outdoor spaces. If it can disperse in a park, why doesn't it disperse in a garden?


----------



## MilleD

Sacremist said:


> If you are not coming into contact with other people, then I don't see why not. I know it's farther than the government suggest, but some things just have to be done to keep the economy afloat.


Indeed.

We have decided to go up on Friday. It's a 7 hour round trip so will be a long day.


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> Here tis
> 
> View attachment 439378


Having sold our static caravan, we plan to buy a motor home at some point.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


>


:Hilarious

Well they are outside, so they must know :Hilarious


----------



## kittih

Sacremist said:


> I still don't really understand how there can be a viral build up in a garden and not in a park. Both are outdoor spaces. If it can disperse in a park, why doesn't it disperse in a garden?


The reason for saying parks and not gardens is not because there would be any more build up of virus particles in one more than the other. It is because:
1) They need to use a straightforward catch all instruction and there are too many variables with gardens. Many people have no common sense so if gardens were allowed then people wouldnt identify corona related hazards and assess risks in relation to their own situation, they would say the government said garden are OK so having friend visiting my tiny backyard via the house, use the indoor toilet, share food, drink and other items and spend all day talking, playing, messing about is fine and allowed.

Its easier to say no gardens.
In parks the social pressure may be enough to keep people more aware of social distancing, its easier to think in a private garden that whats not observed wont matter.

Not everyone has external access to a garden and enough room to seat people far enough away from each other.

There is a temptation to stay a long time in a garden, stay for a meal, just pop into the house to use the loo, kitchen or admire the last diy project.

Having strangers visit gardens puts neighbours who may be shielding or at least trying to maintain social distancing t increased risk especially if they have to share communal areas, pass on paths or are close by in car parks. Vulnerable individuals will feel more anxious as a result and may feel more trapped at home if more people are visiting their neighbourhood.

Parks can be avoided by those who wish to stay away from people. With no food and drink for sale or toilet facilities people are unlikely to stay out as long or share facilities. Being out in public makes more people less complacent and less likely to take risks after all although you may believe a friend is safe the stranger nearby may not be so the risk of being out is perceived as greater (even though it may be you best mate who is the silent carrier).

People like to find loopholes in any instruction - meeting in parks has fewer loopholes than gardens.


----------



## Sacrechat

kittih said:


> The reason for saying parks and not gardens is not because there would be any more build up of virus particles in one more than the other. It is because:
> 1) They need to use a straightforward catch all instruction and there are too many variables with gardens. Many people have no common sense so if gardens were allowed then people wouldnt identify corona related hazards and assess risks in relation to their own situation, they would say the government said garden are OK so having friend visiting my tiny backyard via the house, use the indoor toilet, share food, drink and other items and spend all day talking, playing, messing about is fine and allowed.
> 
> Its easier to say no gardens.
> In parks the social pressure may be enough to keep people more aware of social distancing, its easier to think in a private garden that whats not observed wont matter.
> 
> Not everyone has external access to a garden and enough room to seat people far enough away from each other.
> 
> There is a temptation to stay a long time in a garden, stay for a meal, just pop into the house to use the loo, kitchen or admire the last diy project.
> 
> Having strangers visit gardens puts neighbours who may be shielding or at least trying to maintain social distancing t increased risk especially if they have to share communal areas, pass on paths or are close by in car parks. Vulnerable individuals will feel more anxious as a result and may feel more trapped at home if more people are visiting their neighbourhood.
> 
> Parks can be avoided by those who wish to stay away from people. With no food and drink for sale or toilet facilities people are unlikely to stay out as long or share facilities. Being out in public makes more people less complacent and less likely to take risks after all although you may believe a friend is safe the stranger nearby may not be so the risk of being out is perceived as greater (even though it may be you best mate who is the silent carrier).
> 
> People like to find loopholes in any instruction - meeting in parks has fewer loopholes than gardens.


Thank you!


----------



## Magyarmum

Good news for @rona

https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/bo...OhV8bqjrFfrA26NSGUMDjBmvvYGZDxJXDk9kJv06hSOII

*Boating officially open says DEFRA*


----------



## Happy Paws2

LinznMilly said:


> Yeah, it sounds like it's the same letter. When I registered with the government website, I *said "yes" to the question,* "Do you have friends or family who can get your shopping in for you?"
> 
> That's reassuring, though @Happy Paws2 I'll look into it.
> 
> Nice to know I can keep the girls with me because while it might be nice to have a day off from walking them :Bag, after that I'd miss them, and they do give me a reason to get up in the morning.


If you have told them YES, you have someone who can get your shopping I'm not sure if they'll automatically help you. You may have to look into again, I'd re-register and say NO.


----------



## Sacrechat

Magyarmum said:


> Good news for @rona
> 
> https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/bo...OhV8bqjrFfrA26NSGUMDjBmvvYGZDxJXDk9kJv06hSOII
> 
> *Boating officially open says DEFRA*


This went down like a lead balloon in the caravan forums.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## rona

Can anyone tell me how cycling, walking and queuing to get into a shop is going to work if we have a winter like the one just gone? 

It's ok going home in the rain but going to work!


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> Can anyone tell me how cycling, walking and queuing to get into a shop is going to work if we have a winter like the one just gone?
> 
> It's ok going home in the rain but going to work!


Put it forward to the 5 o'clock update panel. A question from the public


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Can anyone tell me how cycling, walking and queuing to get into a shop is going to work if we have a winter like the one just gone?
> 
> It's ok going home in the rain but going to work!


I know some of the supermarkets were suggesting that you stay in your car and they would come and tell you when it was your turn. I can't remember the details of exactly how it would work now, but it seemed feasible to me at the time

I guess with exercise you either steel yourself or not go out which is pretty much the same as normal I would think. It's only dedicated dog walkers that go out in all weathers


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I know some of the supermarkets were suggesting that you stay in your car and they would come and tell you when it was your turn. I can't remember the details of exactly how it would work now, but it seemed feasible to me at the time
> .


That's alright if you have a car, how are they going to work out in order you can go in, and are the staff going to be standing out in the rain


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I know some of the supermarkets were suggesting that you stay in your car and they would come and tell you when it was your turn. I can't remember the details of exactly how it would work now, but it seemed feasible to me at the time


hmm...kinda glad now that my local supermarket is inside a shopping mall!LOL


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I know some of the supermarkets were suggesting that you stay in your car and they would come and tell you when it was your turn. I can't remember the details of exactly how it would work now, but it seemed feasible to me at the time
> 
> I guess with exercise you either steel yourself or not go out which is pretty much the same as normal I would think. It's only dedicated dog walkers that go out in all weathers


But the government are telling people to walk and cycle to work. They are putting 2 billion into it. I'm sure that most won't in winter


----------



## Boxer123

rona said:


> But the government are telling people to walk and cycle to work. They are putting 2 billion into it. I'm sure that most won't in winter


Really if your going to cycle in winter you need some proper gear; clothing, lights etc. I run in the winter rather than cycle it's scary on those roads in the dark.


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Can anyone tell me how cycling, walking and queuing to get into a shop is going to work if we have a winter like the one just gone?


I can't comment on cycling, but a know where I live many don't have cars, and many walk to work in all weathers. Those who commute via train to our town have a long walk to most places anyway..
I don't think that matters. 
We don't have enough parking for large places such as council offices. It's been encouraged for years to use public transport, car share or walk and cycle.

OK may have forgotten about cyclists, I have known many teachers to be honest who cycle and change when they get to work. So I would say the same for anywhere that does have good cycle routes. Some towns do, and bike2work schemes having been going for a while via employers and the government. So in a way nothing new.

Standing in queues.. Most primary age parents do this anyway daily term time come rain or shine to collect children. Am sure thick coats, water proofs and whatever you deem fit is what needs and must.

Hopefully by winter time, schools might be in, more at work so shopping except Christmas madness might not be too harrowing.


----------



## JANICE199

MilleD said:


> Indeed.
> 
> We have decided to go up on Friday. It's a 7 hour round trip so will be a long day.


*Just to let you know, if you are going to Wales i wouldn't. They are turning people away. Only saying as i don't where your journing is taking you *


----------



## Lurcherlad

JANICE199 said:


> *Just to let you know, if you are going to Wales i wouldn't. They are turning people away. Only saying as i don't where your journing is taking you *


Good point.

Maybe make some enquires and see if you can get "permission" as it's not a leisure outing.


----------



## Jesthar

Happy Paws2 said:


> That's alright if you have a car, how are they going to work out in order you can go in, and are the staff going to be standing out in the rain


They've got a few months to figure it out. Humans are a creative and adaptable bunch. I mean, let's face it - supermarkets were only just becoming a 'thing' when I was a kid. We've adapted to them, and we can adapt again - away from them, if needs be.

In fact, I'd say the main obstacle will be the people currently making mass profits via the current economic model, especially those who make it off the back of low paid employees. The cynic in me says this is why they want people back into the 'system' as soon as possible, before they get too many bright ideas about how things could be done differently...


----------



## MilleD

JANICE199 said:


> *Just to let you know, if you are going to Wales i wouldn't. They are turning people away. Only saying as i don't where your journing is taking you *


Thanks Janice, but no, all England based.


----------



## rona

.............................


----------



## Magyarmum

I thought this was interesting, not for the political blurb but because it gives charts showing how well countries are doing in in the fight against Covid-19.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/...kUdlkM5hxNRqW9RrHiIX6tROPhueAdmGBfIscOgEB_vLU


----------



## cheekyscrip

rona said:


> But the government are telling people to walk and cycle to work. They are putting 2 billion into it. I'm sure that most won't in winter


Boris will cancel winter this year. Simples.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Lurcherlad said:


> Good point.
> 
> Maybe make some enquires and see if you can get "permission" as it's not a leisure outing.


What if you own a place and want to relocate there for time being and able to work from home?

Many did in Spain. Now Madrid is in Sotogrande.


----------



## lullabydream

cheekyscrip said:


> What if you own a place and want to relocate there for time being and able to work from home?


That's exactly what Gordon Ramsey was doing.. Flitting from one holiday home to another suffice to say it didn't go down well.. Neither did the MP in Scotland whose no longer an MP. Didn't go down well her going to her second home.

Yes am sure many could work from a second home, which in most would be a holiday home. Its not really what should be done though. If you read the government advisory notes, it's still pretty much stay at home. Meaning the home you are at where lockdown began. If that happened to be your holiday home, fair enough but I think only certain people will be lucky enough to have booked time away to do that.


----------



## JoanneF

lullabydream said:


> Neither did the MP in Scotland whose no longer an MP.


It was even worse - she was the Chief Medical Officer who had been giving out the orders to stay at home!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171


----------



## lullabydream

JoanneF said:


> It was even worse - she was the Chief Medical Officer who had been giving out the orders to stay at home!
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171


Yep...

Gordon Ramsay had also posted a video telling people to stay at home too.. Seen on nearly every beach on Cornwell after that too..

How stupid can these people be.. As if people don't recognise them in local communities.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Anyone see on the News on TV about a restaurant in Amsterdam that has opened and so they can keep social distancing they have customers sitting outside in what looks like greenhouses. I good idea, I think.


----------



## JANICE199

*I've not posted my thought much on this situation but as time goes by i thought i's add this. I would love to know why Boris's dad can go and see the new baby, thousands of people are coming into this country every day, ect, ect. BUT, we cannot visit our families in our homes or gardens. Yes i'm angry, and to be honest fed up with being told what we can and can't do, when those telling us have a different set of rules. It's no wonder people are ignoring the guild lines. *


----------



## Cully

There'll be individual cloche bubbles in pubs with drones serving drinks.:Smug


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> There'll be individual cloche bubbles in pubs with drones serving drinks.:Smug


Yes they did call them bubbles, and served by members of staff not machines.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone see on the News on TV about a restaurant in Amsterdam that has opened and so they can keep social distancing they have customers sitting outside in what looks like greenhouses. I good idea, I think.


I posted about it on this thread a few days ago And there's a picture of all the greenhouses!

https://people.com/food/a-restauran...es-so-diners-can-eat-while-social-distancing/
*A Restaurant in Amsterdam Built Quarantine Greenhouses so Diners Can Eat While Social Distancing*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> I posted about it on this thread a few days ago And there's a picture of all the greenhouses!
> 
> https://people.com/food/a-restauran...es-so-diners-can-eat-while-social-distancing/
> *A Restaurant in Amsterdam Built Quarantine Greenhouses so Diners Can Eat While Social Distancing*


Sorry missed that.:Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Lurcherlad

cheekyscrip said:


> What if you own a place and want to relocate there for time being and able to work from home?
> 
> Many did in Spain. Now Madrid is in Sotogrande.


We weren't allowed to do that initially.


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> I posted about it on this thread a few days ago And there's a picture of all the greenhouses!
> 
> https://people.com/food/a-restauran...es-so-diners-can-eat-while-social-distancing/
> *A Restaurant in Amsterdam Built Quarantine Greenhouses so Diners Can Eat While Social Distancing*


Ahhh that's where Ladbaby got the idea from then


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone see on the News on TV about a restaurant in Amsterdam that has opened and so they can keep social distancing they have customers sitting outside in what looks like greenhouses. I good idea, I think.


Yes . A good idea.


----------



## GingerNinja

As they are very spaced apart I'm not sure that being in a greenhouse (enclosed space that would, I assume, be used by different groups) is better than if they were sitting out in the open with the same spacing . I wouldn't fancy it, even if they promised cleaning in between customers.


----------



## cheekyscrip

JANICE199 said:


> *I've not posted my thought much on this situation but as time goes by i thought i's add this. I would love to know why Boris's dad can go and see the new baby, thousands of people are coming into this country every day, ect, ect. BUT, we cannot visit our families in our homes or gardens. Yes i'm angry, and to be honest fed up with being told what we can and can't do, when those telling us have a different set of rules. It's no wonder people are ignoring the guild lines. *


Sweden.

Trusted their own people. The restrictions are fewer and life goes on. They don't want to make it political, they don't want to build up fear, they want restrictions that could be kept for long time as virus is not going to vanish. 
Their ever trained their airline crew to perform basic nursing tasks as those people are not working.


----------



## Sacrechat

cheekyscrip said:


> Sweden.
> 
> Trusted their own people. The restrictions are fewer and life goes on. They don't want to make it political, they don't want to build up fear, they want restrictions that could be kept for long time as virus is not going to vanish.
> Their ever trained their airline crew to perform basic nursing tasks as those people are not working.


I think perhaps the Swedes don't have as many numpties as we have, though!


----------



## rona

Sacremist said:


> I think perhaps the Swedes don't have as many numpties as we have, though!


Population density 
Sweden 24 people per Km2 
England 281 per Km2

Could be the answer


----------



## cheekyscrip

rona said:


> Population density
> Sweden 24 people per Km2
> England 281 per Km2
> 
> Could be the answer


One of them, but schools are open.
Restaurants and bars open.

Work goes on but obviously remotely when possible.

Gatherings over 50 banned.

Experts say that virus spreads much less outdoors.
Sweden has their response run by specialists not politicians and they do not use police to enforce the regulations.

Experts say schools do not contribute much to spreading the virus.

Sweden admitted their response could have been better.

It is interesting though.

Gibraltar- one of the highest density in the world.

Currently no one in hospital, no one died, three active cases at home and frontier with Spain still open for supplies, workers etc...

I think must be more factors, why some places have it so severe.
Different strains?


----------



## shadowmare

Magyarmum said:


> I posted about it on this thread a few days ago And there's a picture of all the greenhouses!
> 
> https://people.com/food/a-restauran...es-so-diners-can-eat-while-social-distancing/
> *A Restaurant in Amsterdam Built Quarantine Greenhouses so Diners Can Eat While Social Distancing*


I wonder who is responsible for cleaning the inside of these greenhouses and how long it takes. I assume that it's separate staff members because I can't imagine a waitress jumping between serving food and cleaning.

The sad fact is that when hospitality comes back into business, at least half of the people currently still on furlough will be made redundant. Any restaurant that will be opening back up will have to cut down on their usual covers due to social distancing. Some places will be able to do that because they have 30-50 tables. Small places, especially the currently popular hipster, vegan, etc that only accommodate 20-30 covers across maybe 8-12 tables will have to either turn into take away only or shut down because they won't be able to survive on that level of business. Which simply mean that any places that will be able to continue running under new rules will be unable to pay the number of staff they currently employ nor will they realistically need that number of people working anymore.


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> Sweden.
> 
> Trusted their own people. The restrictions are fewer and life goes on. They don't want to make it political, they don't want to build up fear, they want restrictions that could be kept for long time as virus is not going to vanish.
> Their ever trained their airline crew to perform basic nursing tasks as those people are not working.


Hungary is tiny country 93,000 sq kms compared to Sweden's 450,000 sq kms yet we both have a population of around 10 million people.

Sweden has 24 people per sq km and Hungary 108 people per sq km Sweden spends considerably more on it's health service than Hungary.

To date Hungary has had 3473 cases of Covid-19 and 448 deaths compared to Sweden's 29,207 cases and 3646 deaths.

Unlike Sweden, Hungary went into a strict lock down and the government have dealt with the pandemic almost as if it was a military operation. WizzAir have made 120 flights bringing in supplies of PPE from China, so no health worker had to go without as well as ventilators, test kits etc. And the country now has enough supplies to last for the rest of the year.The military were brought in to take charge of the disinfection of public buildings and the running of care homes. Communication from government has been frequent, very clear and matter of fact and in general people have done what has been asked of them.

The country is beginning to open up again, but we have been warned should new cases rise then lock down will be imposed again. All in all IMO Hungary's done a pretty good job!


----------



## ChaosCat

This video illustrating how a virus spreads is really impressive!


----------



## Cleo38

JANICE199 said:


> *I've not posted my thought much on this situation but as time goes by i thought i's add this. I would love to know why Boris's dad can go and see the new baby, thousands of people are coming into this country every day, ect, ect. BUT, we cannot visit our families in our homes or gardens. Yes i'm angry, and to be honest fed up with being told what we can and can't do, when those telling us have a different set of rules. It's no wonder people are ignoring the guild lines. *


I completely agree @JANICE199, but isn't that always the way! I'm also fed up of the self appointed Covid Police who seem to be obsessed with trying to catch their neighbours out. I was chatting to a police officer the other day & couldn't believe the calls out he as had to attend.

Tbh I make my choices based on what I feel is safest, I haven't been around anyone for months now (except for my mum & a couple of nurses in the hospice she was at …. & that was wearing full PPE).
I walk my dogs a couple of times a day, I go out for a run, etc as I live in a very rural area & I am lucky that I can go out without meeting anyone.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Population density
> Sweden 24 people per Km2
> England 281 per Km2
> 
> Could be the answer


Plus we have the second busiest (I think it still is) airport in the world. That can't have helped.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Sacremist said:


> I think perhaps the Swedes don't have as many numpties as we have, though!


They do seem a more ordered people, not like here.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Plus we have the second busiest (I think it still is) airport in the world. That can't have helped.


They say that in the US on the West coast the infection was brought in from China, but on the East coast it was brought in from Europe.


----------



## JANICE199

Cleo38 said:


> I completely agree @JANICE199, but isn't that always the way! I'm also fed up of the self appointed Covid Police who seem to be obsessed with trying to catch their neighbours out. I was chatting to a police officer the other day & couldn't believe the calls out he as had to attend.
> 
> Tbh I make my choices based on what I feel is safest, I haven't been around anyone for months now (except for my mum & a couple of nurses in the hospice she was at …. & that was wearing full PPE).
> I walk my dogs a couple of times a day, I go out for a run, etc as I live in a very rural area & I am lucky that I can go out without meeting anyone.


*Yesterday i had to go for a blood test at my Drs. They phoned me the day before to make sure i was well and to say they would ask that i either wore a face mask or had a cover for my face. When i got there only some of the staff were wearing masks as were some of the people waiting to see Drs or nurses. On top of that, i was kept waiting for 30 minutes, which made me angry. Had i known it would be such a wait i would have felt safer waiting in my car. As much as we each try to manage things, people are not working as a team, so where's the point? Common sense goes a long way. So glad some of us still have some *


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> Hungary is tiny country 93,000 sq kms compared to Sweden's 450,000 sq kms yet we both have a population of around 10 million people.
> 
> Sweden has 24 people per sq km and Hungary 108 people per sq km Sweden spends considerably more on it's health service than Hungary.
> 
> To date Hungary has had 3473 cases of Covid-19 and 448 deaths compared to Sweden's 29,207 cases and 3646 deaths.
> 
> Unlike Sweden, Hungary went into a strict lock down and the government have dealt with the pandemic almost as if it was a military operation. WizzAir have made 120 flights bringing in supplies of PPE from China, so no health worker had to go without as well as ventilators, test kits etc. And the country now has enough supplies to last for the rest of the year.The military were brought in to take charge of the disinfection of public buildings and the running of care homes. Communication from government has been frequent, very clear and matter of fact and in general people have done what has been asked of them.
> 
> The country is beginning to open up again, but we have been warned should new cases rise then lock down will be imposed again. All in all IMO Hungary's done a pretty good job!


It is far too early to know which approach will work best in the long run.

Hungary might have a spike and another lockdown... Sweden might be forced to lockdown more strict...

What I like in Swedish approach is keeping politicians out of it, keeping police out of it and thinking long term.

No panic and no vigilantes.


----------



## Magyarmum

JANICE199 said:


> *Yesterday i had to go for a blood test at my Drs. They phoned me the day before to make sure i was well and to say they would ask that i either wore a face mask or had a cover for my face. When i got there only some of the staff were wearing masks as were some of the people waiting to see Drs or nurses. On top of that, i was kept waiting for 30 minutes, which made me angry. Had i known it would be such a wait i would have felt safer waiting in my car. As much as we each try to manage things, people are not working as a team, so where's the point? Common sense goes a long way. So glad some of us still have some *


Until last Wednesday I've only been shopping in the supermarkets in my local town and then only twice, on a Sunday morning between the hours of 9 to 12 which are reserved for the 65 and older age group. Virtually no one in the shop and everyone wearing a mask. On Wednesday I went to the Auchan hypermarket in the city which is similar to Asda in the UK. Again at the 9 to 12 OAP slot. Although it was quite crowded and difficult to maintain the requisite social distance, once again everyone was wearing masks and keeping to the distance marked on the floor at the check outs.

I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> It is far too early to know which approach will work best in the long run.
> 
> Hungary might have a spike and another lockdown... Sweden might be forced to lockdown more strict...
> 
> What I like in Swedish approach is keeping politicians out of it, keeping police out of it and thinking long term.
> 
> No panic and no vigilantes.


But look at the difference in the figures! They're quite horrific!

Can you honestly say that an infection rate of 29,207 cases is better than one of 3473 and a death rate of 3646 is preferable to one of 448?

I know which country I'd rather live in.


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## Lurcherlad

JANICE199 said:


> *Yesterday i had to go for a blood test at my Drs. They phoned me the day before to make sure i was well and to say they would ask that i either wore a face mask or had a cover for my face. When i got there only some of the staff were wearing masks as were some of the people waiting to see Drs or nurses. On top of that, i was kept waiting for 30 minutes, which made me angry. Had i known it would be such a wait i would have felt safer waiting in my car. As much as we each try to manage things, people are not working as a team, so where's the point? Common sense goes a long way. So glad some of us still have some *


Our clinic has everyone enter singularly to book in then wait outside/in their car until called in. The receptionist is using an iPad and controlling access.

Given OH's vulnerability, I booked him in then he waited in the car until called, then he was directed to the cubicle via the back way to avoid anyone entering/exiting via the waiting room.

Even so, he still had to ask a numpty to move away from the entrance door so he could get past with a 2m gap. She wasn't best pleased she had to stop leaning on the railings by the door and look up from her phone for a second nor did it seem to register how everyone was being sensible/considerate and why? "Can't educate pork" as the saying goes


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


>


I remember that episode :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I remember that episode :Hilarious


Its a classic ! Like basil faulty beating his car with a branch. :Hilarious


----------



## Sacrechat

JANICE199 said:


> *Yesterday i had to go for a blood test at my Drs. They phoned me the day before to make sure i was well and to say they would ask that i either wore a face mask or had a cover for my face. When i got there only some of the staff were wearing masks as were some of the people waiting to see Drs or nurses. On top of that, i was kept waiting for 30 minutes, which made me angry. Had i known it would be such a wait i would have felt safer waiting in my car. As much as we each try to manage things, people are not working as a team, so where's the point? Common sense goes a long way. So glad some of us still have some *


Thank you, as this aptly makes my point about living in a country with some numpties. I know the vast majority of people are sensible but there are enough people around who aren't that cause the problems. At the beginning of lockdown, we had gangs of kids hanging around outside of shops. Even now, I've been told that security guards in supermarkets aren't controlling numbers entering and that customers are reaching over the top of each other to get goods off shelves. These are all examples of numpties in this country who, it seems, cannot follow simple rules.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I'm also fed up of the self appointed Covid Police who seem to be obsessed with trying to catch their neighbours out.


You and me both! I've dubbed it "competitive quarantining." 
Like competitive parents, these folks have opinions about how everyone else is doing quarantine and how their version of it is so much better. It's not helpful, it's obnoxious. 
If I see one more "I wear a mask for you not for me" I may post something snarky about appreciating the guilt trip what with travel restrictions 'n all....


----------



## JoanneF

kimthecat said:


> Its a classic ! Like basil faulty beating his car with a branch. :Hilarious


OT but I once helped to push John Cleese's broken down car.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> But look at the difference in the figures! They're quite horrific!
> 
> Can you honestly say that an infection rate of 29,207 cases is better than one of 3473 and a death rate of 3646 is preferable to one of 448?
> 
> I know which country I'd rather live in.


Yes and no. Needs few more years really to see how it will pan out.

For example what happens when lockdown is lifted in Hungary?
It cannot go on until vaccinations are given- at least over a year from now.

Recession means less money for health care and poverty means more health issues for many.
So less treatment for everyone for everything.
In Sweden appointments go on ..

In other places are cancelled so although people may not die of Covid will die of other things if treated too late..

My mum awaits operation but because of lockdown she cannot have it...

The thing is: we are all in different boats.

Older people who are more vulnerable but have secure income like pension might prefer tough lockdown.

People who are unemployed as a result etc want to go back to work.

I think Hungary is using this to put Orban very much in power forever.

Again it may matter more to those concerned with the future of this country.

As to whether we can trust figures presented by Hungarian government?

Or Polish, or Russian?

It is very transparent in Sweden.

Of course the number of actual infections will be higher there then tested.

Many Swedes with mild symptoms may choose to self isolate at home.


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Its a classic ! Like basil faulty beating his car with a branch. :Hilarious


I loved the scene on Only Fools and Horses when grandad unscrewed the wrong chandelier.


----------



## rona

Well some total dick heads risked my life, my OHs life and my sick friends life this morning  

How?

By not being able to control their dogs and letting them off lead  :Rage


----------



## Boxer123

rona said:


> Well some total dick heads risked my life, my OHs life and my sick friends life this morning
> 
> How?
> 
> By not being able to control their dogs and letting them off lead  :Rage


Didn't want to like hope you are ok. Honestly I think we should have a section of the country for just numpties.


----------



## Siskin

I was reading this morning about British Airways advertising holiday destinations such as Mexico. Apparently there is no problem booking a flight. Heathrow doesn’t appear to be adopting a 14 day quarantine on people who return.

Looking past the fact that aircraft are operating and flying people on holiday or the lack of quarantine, who are these stupid people who think it’s fine to fly in an aircraft full of other people who may have the virus and go to another country and either spread the virus there or pick it up and bring it back home.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Well some total dick heads risked my life, my OHs life and my sick friends life this morning
> 
> How?
> 
> By not being able to control their dogs and letting them off lead  :Rage


So inconsiderate!

Yet so easily avoided!


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Well some total dick heads risked my life, my OHs life and my sick friends life this morning
> 
> How?
> 
> By not being able to control their dogs and letting them off lead  :Rage


There really are some Pr*ts around, just hope you are all OK.


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> I was reading this morning about British Airways advertising holiday destinations such as Mexico. Apparently there is no problem booking a flight. Heathrow doesn't appear to be adopting a 14 day quarantine on people who return.
> 
> Looking past the fact that aircraft are operating and flying people on holiday or the lack of quarantine, who are these stupid people who think it's fine to fly in an aircraft full of other people who may have the virus and go to another country and either spread the virus there or pick it up and bring it back home.


I have a friend who lives on the west coast already talking about making reservations for "coming to visit me in my new house". I said what are you crazy? If you traveled across the country on a plane I'd make you quarantine yourself for 14 days before I'd even see you. Oh, she said, I didn't think of that.


----------



## cheekyscrip

As from tomorrow small gatherings will be allowed here. 


I will be able to see my new stepdaughter!!!

Seen only once as newborn...

Obviously social distance should be kept...


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> You and me both! I've dubbed it "competitive quarantining."
> Like competitive parents, these folks have opinions about how everyone else is doing quarantine and how their version of it is so much better. It's not helpful, it's obnoxious.
> If I see one more "I wear a mask for you not for me" I may post something snarky about appreciating the guilt trip what with travel restrictions 'n all....


Hahaha! The police officer I spoke to the other day told me that a call out the previous evening was from a 'concerned neighbour' who thought that the family next door had guests over & therefore breaking the rules. She hadn't seen anyone but apparently there was 'too much' laughter coming from the garden!!! So having a good time is now to be viewed with suspicion 

We also have people criticising their neighbours for not going out & clapping for the NHS each Thursday. Despite these people not knowing what goes on in other people's lives, the fact they might be ill or caring for family member, or tired or out at work, or just not want to, some busybodies feel that they should 'name & shame' on FB. If you don't do this then you obviously HATE the NHS 

It's sad as I think so many people have shown themselves to be so amazing, so helpful, so considerate, etc yet some just want to criticise others


----------



## lorilu

I have a friend who is very extroverted (we've been friends for 50 years and she's always been that way) and seems unable to adhere to any social distancing rules at all. She's always sending me e mails about her social activities, now more so than ever before. I don't know if she's trying to goad me into judging her or what. Her only complaint is that her son and daughter in law won't let her see her 2 year old grandson except over the computer. I can't blame them for that, but again, I have not commented. She wants to set a date with me to get together (we meet for hikes regularly, or did before all this). I've ignored the request for a date to meet as well. I just say things like "I'm glad you are having a good time" and "I'm sorry you miss your grandson so much, that must be hard"


----------



## Elles

I don’t go out and clap for the nhs or anyone else. Yeah some neighbours have expressed their displeasure at the anarchy. Do I care what they think with the single brain cell they have between them? :Mooning

No one round here works for the nhs. Many of them don’t (officially) work. If standing in the street banging pans makes them feel good, all power to them.


----------



## lorilu

Oh and guess what? I got a letter from my car insurance company that I would be receiving a credit of $12.99 for the current half year coverage because I am working from home, so am spending less time on the road! The credit being applied to my credit card (which is how I always pay my insurance).


----------



## Lurcherlad

I claimed a refund on BT Sport for DS (he cba ) for the period since Lockdown as there’s been no sport! Yay!


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> Yes and no. Needs few more years really to see how it will pan out.
> 
> For example what happens when lockdown is lifted in Hungary?
> It cannot go on until vaccinations are given- at least over a year from now.
> 
> Recession means less money for health care and poverty means more health issues for many.
> So less treatment for everyone for everything.
> In Sweden appointments go on ..
> 
> In other places are cancelled so although people may not die of Covid will die of other things if treated too late..
> 
> My mum awaits operation but because of lockdown she cannot have it...
> 
> The thing is: we are all in different boats.
> 
> Older people who are more vulnerable but have secure income like pension might prefer tough lockdown.
> 
> People who are unemployed as a result etc want to go back to work.
> 
> I think Hungary is using this to put Orban very much in power forever.
> 
> Again it may matter more to those concerned with the future of this country.
> 
> As to whether we can trust figures presented by Hungarian government?
> 
> Or Polish, or Russian?
> 
> It is very transparent in Sweden.
> 
> Of course the number of actual infections will be higher there then tested.
> 
> Many Swedes with mild symptoms may choose to self isolate at home.


Perhaps I should remind you that it was only a few days ago that the thread was closed for moderation after posters had been asked NOT to bring politics into the discussion.:Arghh

Much as I love you @cheekyscrip this is exactly what you have done. As I don't want either of us to get our knuckles rapped or horror of horror - banned -I'm not going to reply, (not that I don't want to you understand)? layful:Muted

This is what the Moderator said .............................



PFModerator said:


> I'm finding it really hard to believe that after a few minutes of reopening this thread there have been 2 reports ! Agreed, one of the comments that should have been deleted wasn't but references to it were deleted.
> May I suggest that sifting through the thread looking for possible political references is not constructive ?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps I should remind you that it was only a few days ago that the thread was closed for moderation after posters had been asked NOT to bring politics into the discussion.:Arghh
> 
> Much as I love you @cheekyscrip this is exactly what you have done. As I don't want either of us to get our knuckles rapped or horror of horror - banned -I'm not going to reply, (not that I don't want to you understand)? layful:Muted
> 
> This is what the Moderator said .............................


Sorry, not following this very closely as I need a break from Covid now and then..,

So missed that bit.

Love you too @Magyarmum :Kiss.
This why I admire Sweden- it is not about politics, not about economy, it is about trust and good citizenship.

Hope it will work.


----------



## white_shadow

.







.....was posted on another forum this aft - couldn't resist not sharing.

-hope you had a chuckle!
.


----------



## Sacrechat

BAD NEWS PEEPS
A new virus which is spreading a hundred times quicker then Coronavirus has been discovered, the imasthickasshit virus affects people’s ability to social distance properly, people with the imasthickasshit virus will go out to parks and beauty spots in their droves with no worries about spreading the Coronavirus. Doctors think that Coronavirus and imasthickasshit virus could be connected, but are worried by the speed imasthickasshit virus is spreading, if you see a group of people drinking tinnies in a public area please keep well clear, stay safe my friends....feel free to nick this because I did


----------



## rona

Dogs could be the answer to our way out of the pandemic
https://www.sciencealert.com/medica...e-if-they-can-help-identify-coronavirus-cases

"Specially trained medical detection dogs could be the solution to the crisis in the lack of testing that many countries are facing during the coronavirus pandemic".


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dogs are very clever and they may be able to find it in people, but until we get a vaccine things aren't going to change.


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> I don't go out and clap for the nhs or anyone else. Yeah some neighbours have expressed their displeasure at the anarchy. Do I care what they think with the single brain cell they have between them? :Mooning
> 
> No one round here works for the nhs. Many of them don't (officially) work. If standing in the street banging pans makes them feel good, all power to them.


We had fireworks here one Thursday evening . . . . I was trying to work out what the celebration was then I realised it was Thursday so all the wild-life has to be terrified and any cats which happen to be out in the garden. I could sort of see the point once (of clapping, but not the wretched fireworks).


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> Hahaha! The police officer I spoke to the other day told me that a call out the previous evening was from a 'concerned neighbour' who thought that the family next door had guests over & therefore breaking the rules. She hadn't seen anyone but apparently there was 'too much' laughter coming from the garden!!! So having a good time is now to be viewed with suspicion
> 
> We also have people criticising their neighbours for not going out & clapping for the NHS each Thursday. Despite these people not knowing what goes on in other people's lives, the fact they might be ill or caring for family member, or tired or out at work, or just not want to, some busybodies feel that they should 'name & shame' on FB. If you don't do this then you obviously HATE the NHS
> 
> It's sad as I think so many people have shown themselves to be so amazing, so helpful, so considerate, etc yet some just want to criticise others


I would like to clap all day long for the Yodel guy who brings the cat food and the Amazon guy who schlepps 30 kg of cat litter to my door. And the assistants in the supermarket who serve you wearing shields (like police horses during a violent protest). All doing their best and without them we would be stuffed.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> I would like to clap all day long for the Yodel guy who brings the cat food and the Amazon guy who schlepps 30 kg of cat litter to my door. And the assistants in the supermarket who serve you wearing shields (like police horses during a violent protest). All doing their best and without them we would be stuffed.


Hail the unsung heroes. I'm sure the Thursday clap is for ALL those who we would be lost without.
One of my sons is a dustman and he puts himself at risk every day. Bravo to them all.


----------



## Magyarmum

From midnight tonight restrictions will be relaxed in Budapest to bring it into line with the rest of the country where restrictions were relaxed two weeks ago. And if there is no serious spike in the number of new cases the state of emergency will be lifted at the end of May.

We have been warned though by the Hungarian scientists and epidemiologists advising the Government, to expect a resurgence of the virus in September/October

The only thing I'll be doing different is taking the Schnauzer boys to training in the trainer's garden and to take them for a much needed "hair cut" Apart from that we'll go shopping only when it's absolutely necessary.

https://www.kormany.hu/hu/hirek/het...v32fWV5GMOdVudkCrktcq5fX0SRT1SVqp2Pc63ACbXS1U

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...hand-back-emergency-powers-at-the-end-of-may/


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> One of my sons is a dustman and he puts himself at risk every day. Bravo to them all.


When they bring or wheelie bins back, I always make a point of standing on the front door step and thank them, before I go out to put them back where I want them. I sometimes feel they are a forgotten group of people we should be thanking.


----------



## catz4m8z

Cully said:


> One of my sons is a dustman and he puts himself at risk every day. Bravo to them all.


I bet dustmen were already pretty good at not touching their faces when they were at work!LOL

I agree though...plenty of unsung heroes out there. Even in the NHS people seem to concentrate on Drs and nurses and yet there are cleaners, porters, security men, phlebotomists, x ray technians, therapists, etc all also on the frontline working directly with patients.
Big up for everybody keeping this country running!


----------



## lorilu

I make a point of thanking grocery store employees and post office employees by saying "thank you for being here". It makes ME feel good anyway and I hope it offers some cheer to them too.


----------



## Cully

In my Tesco delivery order, that bit where you can make a comment about substitutions and instructions to the pickers. I always put a little comment in there. In my bananas this week I said, "The greener the better please. And thank you for everything you're doing to make life easier for us (hug)". 
It's twofold really. Hopefully it will make them smile. Also they might just try and find me some really green bananas.


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> I make a point of thanking grocery store employees and post office employees by saying "thank you for being here". It makes ME feel good anyway and I hope it offers some cheer to them too.


I make point of saying "thank you I do appreciate what your doing " to the deliver person who delivers shopping from the Sainsbury's sometimes they look surprised that I've said it.

Thank You, never hurts anyone to say it.


----------



## ForestWomble

I have always said thank you to doctors, nurses etc, shop assistants, delivery people, the postie and dustman, the look of pleasant surprise on their faces is great, it's a small something but if it gives a smile that's the main thing.


----------



## lorilu

ForestWomble said:


> I have always said thank you to doctors, nurses etc, shop assistants, delivery people, the postie and dustman, the look of pleasant surprise on their faces is great, it's a small something but if it gives a smile that's the main thing.


well yes, of course I have always thanked them. (and people who serve in the armed forces as well) . But I make the point now, that I am grateful they are willing to put themselves and their families at risk in order to provide such essential services as helping me check out at the grocery store, or selling me stamps or ensuring my mail gets to me. I AM grateful. I have it so easy, my cushy little job working remotely, my same paycheck as ever..I don't have to go out at all if I don't want to. I'm so grateful.


----------



## Magyarmum

I pay COD for everything I buy online and I always make sure I round the amount up to include a tip for the delivery guy. It's never a lot of money but if everyone adds a few pence it mounts up to quite a useful sum.


----------



## JarvisMillan

lorilu said:


> well yes, of course I have always thanked them. (and people who serve in the armed forces as well) . But I make the point now, that I am grateful they are willing to put themselves and their families at risk in order to provide such essential services as helping me check out at the grocery store, or selling me stamps or ensuring my mail gets to me. I AM grateful. I have it so easy, my cushy little job working remotely, my same paycheck as ever..I don't have to go out at all if I don't want to. I'm so grateful.


Disclaimer: I genuinely think that thanking the NHS workers and other essential workers in these critical times is the least we can do. However, there is something repugnant about how some people use Thursdays to self-aggrandise themselves. For instance, three households on my street decided to get fireworks to celebrate the NHS efforts last Thursday... all good, except that they actually gathered together (13 people altogether), which sort of defeats the hole purpose, and then since then on pretty much every occasion I see any them on the street, after the traditional 'hello', they move any conversation into 'Oh, did you see those fireworks, yes, we did it. It did cost us like £2k, but absolutely worth it, because we so much love the NHS', it is those minority people that really make me mad...


----------



## lorilu

JarvisMillan said:


> Disclaimer: I genuinely think that thanking the NHS workers and other essential workers in these critical times is the least we can do. However, there is something repugnant about how some people use Thursdays to self-aggrandise themselves. For instance, three households on my street decided to get fireworks to celebrate the NHS efforts last Thursday... all good, except that they actually gathered together (13 people altogether), which sort of defeats the hole purpose, and then since then on pretty much every occasion I see any them on the street, after the traditional 'hello', they move any conversation into 'Oh, did you see those fireworks, yes, we did it. It did cost us like £2k, but absolutely worth it, because we so much love the NHS', it is those minority people that really make me mad...


Ugh. I can't stand fireworks. Or people who use them, with no consideration of anyone else. I wish they were banned everywhere.


----------



## Calvine

JarvisMillan said:


> It did cost us like £2k,


Money which could go to a decent cause, so many of which are struggling to survive right now. You wonder where their priorities lie, don't you!


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know they have said that certain groups can go out as much as they like. I'm not sure they meant this. The pub over the road has tables and benches, the pub is closed and there are about 15 people sat outside with their own cans of beer.


----------



## Lurcherlad

The point I was making is both comments are ridiculous imo.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## lorilu

I am quite amazed and shocked at how easily I adjusted to wearing a face covering. With my sensory issues and claustrophobia, I was sure I would find it all just intolerable. But nope, it already feels normal. We've been under mandatory face covering since the middle of April. I wear home made covers, made from cut up t-shirt and pony tail holders. They are a bit thick, and very snug fitting, but..I am grateful I have adapted so easily, even though I don't go out in public that often, limiting trips to the store and post office to once every two weeks usually, though sometimes more frequently. I have a friend who complains about it constantly, but as she almost never goes out, she sends her husband or adult son to the store instead, I can't see why she feels so inconvenienced. But I am not her, so can't feel what she feels. She struggles with acceptance in her life in general. Me, I have so many other things to feel anxiety about, wearing a face covering, or whether the government is "over stepping" are not things I concern myself over.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Lurcherlad

So sad, disappointing and frankly, disgusting that such a notice is necessary! 

Unbelievable.

So many people nowadays are ignorant, ungrateful morons.


----------



## kimthecat

Its been requested by the owner of this site that this thread remains politics free. Its already been moderated and political post removed so please dont waste their time.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> When they bring or wheelie bins back, I always make a point of standing on the front door step and thank them, before I go out to put them back where I want them. I sometimes feel they are a forgotten group of people we should be thanking.


Ive always done this and the street cleaner and you get to know them. They do a good job here . The street cleaner also passes on whats been happening in the area. No local Gazette now and the on line local news is rubbish.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> So many people nowadays are ignorant, ungrateful morons.


True: I keep reading how the situation is ''bringing out the best in people'' and it undoubtedly is in some cases. But in other cases it seems to bring out the worst, resulting in people showing their true colours.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> Ive always done this and the street cleaner and you get to know them.


Pretty sure the street cleaners round here think that Im a snobby cow! They always tell me to put my dog poop bag in their cart and I always tell them 'no thanks!'.:Shy Im not dissing them....its just I can fit several teeny dog poops in one bag and like to get my moneys worth!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> Pretty sure the street cleaners round here think that Im a snobby cow! They always tell me to put my dog poop bag in their cart and I always tell them 'no thanks!'.:Shy Im not dissing them....its just I can fit several teeny dog poops in one bag and like to get my moneys worth!LOL:Hilarious


Why don't you explain why not to the street cleaners; shows how thrifty you are


----------



## Jesthar

Regarding schools, public schools Eton, Harrow and Winchester have all annouced they won't be going back until at least September. More are expected to follow.

I bet THAT won't be splashed all over the front page of the Daily Fail...


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Its been requested by the owner of this site that this thread remains politics free. Its already been moderated and political post removed so please dont waste their time.


It was other forum members who requested this thread be kept free from political debate as it was felt more beneficial to concentrate on support and exchange of information.


----------



## Sacrechat

Calvine said:


> We had fireworks here one Thursday evening . . . . I was trying to work out what the celebration was then I realised it was Thursday so all the wild-life has to be terrified and any cats which happen to be out in the garden. I could sort of see the point once (of clapping, but not the wretched fireworks).


We've had fireworks for a few weeks now. It annoys me that people can still buy them at this time of year. Sales should be banned.


----------



## Calvine

Sacremist said:


> We've had fireworks for a few weeks now. It annoys me that people can still buy them at this time of year. Sales should be banned.


 I know: why not just set fire to a pile of fivers in the garden, eh!


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Pretty sure the street cleaners round here think that Im a snobby cow! They always tell me to put my dog poop bag in their cart and I always tell them 'no thanks!'.:Shy Im not dissing them....its just I can fit several teeny dog poops in one bag and like to get my moneys worth!LOL:Hilarious


Agree: I'm all for using as little plastic as possible.


----------



## rona

Been on hold on phone to HMRC for 30 minutes now 

Went through all this earlier and something went wrong, been on the phone for well over an hour and half today listening to the two same short bit of music over and over again 

They cut lines at 4pm!


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> Been on hold on phone to HMRC for 30 minutes now
> 
> Went through all this earlier and something went wrong, been on the phone for well over an hour and half today listening to the two same short bit of music over and over again


I feel your pain - I mislaid one of my bank cards the other week and they insist you have to call to report a lost card. Spent nearly an hour and a half on hold listening to 'music' that sounded as if it had been recorded underwater on a Major Morgan...


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I feel your pain - I mislaid one of my bank cards the other week and they insist you have to call to report a lost card. Spent nearly an hour and a half on hold listening to 'music' that sounded as if it had been recorded underwater on a Major Morgan...


You had to call HMRC to report a lost card?


----------



## rona

Given up, it would have been even worse to get half way through and the phones die. Already had a disconnect today 

Really looking forward to another couple of hours listening to that music tomorrow


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Been on hold on phone to HMRC for 30 minutes now
> 
> Went through all this earlier and something went wrong, been on the phone for well over an hour and half today listening to the two same short bit of music over and over again
> 
> They cut lines at 4pm!


The self employed are in the process of making their claims so it will be manic I imagine.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> You had to call HMRC to report a lost card?


No, my bank!


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> No, my bank!


:Hilarious


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Given up, it would have been even worse to get half way through and the phones die. Already had a disconnect today
> 
> Really looking forward to another couple of hours listening to that music tomorrow


It would probably be easier to claim online - unless you've already tried that. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a...9-self-employment-income-support-scheme#claim


----------



## catz4m8z

Im starting to get fed up of corona life. Just stupid little annoying things like I cant get an eye test and get new glasses (mine have lost the coating and are all scratched). 
Just looked online for a few books Im after and loads of places no longer delivering, cant get Heidi into the vets to get her claws cut....nothing major but I think it does get to you after a while!:Shy


----------



## Boxer123

catz4m8z said:


> Im starting to get fed up of corona life. Just stupid little annoying things like I cant get an eye test and get new glasses (mine have lost the coating and are all scratched).
> Just looked online for a few books Im after and loads of places no longer delivering, cant get Heidi into the vets to get her claws cut....nothing major but I think it does get to you after a while!:Shy


I know what you mean,

Negatives 
I need to go to the dentist. I can't do a thing with my hair, Sox needs his nails done, I've put on weight now having to lose it.

Positives

My bike is fixed, I do hate going to the hairdressers, I still have all my teeth currently.


----------



## Siskin

Feeling sad (and hungry)


The fish n chip van is here tonight parked in the large village hall car park. Husband went up to get some only to find the car park absolutely full to bursting point, the entire village must be there. Told it would take an hour to even get served so he came home empty handed. The van leaves at 8pm.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Oh no!


----------



## Happy Paws2

You'll have to try again later.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> Im starting to get fed up of corona life. Just stupid little annoying things like I cant get an eye test and get new glasses (mine have lost the coating and are all scratched).
> Just looked online for a few books Im after and loads of places no longer delivering, cant get Heidi into the vets to get her claws cut....nothing major but I think it does get to you after a while!:Shy


The Book Depository is still delivering.

https://www.bookdepository.com/?pdg...uu3Hmjrt3wuoNkZVbkUVaUWvg6b_DOWRoC6GYQAvD_BwE


----------



## Sacrechat

catz4m8z said:


> Im starting to get fed up of corona life. Just stupid little annoying things like I cant get an eye test and get new glasses (mine have lost the coating and are all scratched).
> Just looked online for a few books Im after and loads of places no longer delivering, cant get Heidi into the vets to get her claws cut....nothing major but I think it does get to you after a while!:Shy


I, fortunately, have no shortage of books. I have shelves full, just waiting to be read.


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> The Book Depository is still delivering.
> 
> https://www.bookdepository.com/?pdg...uu3Hmjrt3wuoNkZVbkUVaUWvg6b_DOWRoC6GYQAvD_BwE


Just checked...what I want are all unavailable!



Sacremist said:


> I, fortunately, have no shortage of books. I have shelves full, just waiting to be read.


Im rereading things from my giant book cupboard and Im realiesing that Im missing a few books out of various series...which is super annoying now Ive noticed!:Shifty:Shy


----------



## kimthecat

Is it wrong to say Im almost enjoying it?  Its surreal here. Yesterday , we got excited at seeing a plane over head. Look a plane ! I live near two airports  ,
Its like Sunday everyday , clean streets , no *** ends littering the gutters, people waving and calling out to complete strangers  this is London . No traffic , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives , It's like going back in time 50 years.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> You'll have to try again later.


Went back later to find a queue 20 long just trying to order. Husband waited a while then it was announced that there were only sausages and pies left so he came back home.
After a rummage in the freezer we found a bag of scampi and some chips, so nearly there.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Is it wrong to say Im almost enjoying it?  Its surreal here. Yesterday , we got excited at seeing a plane over head. Look a plane ! I live near two airports  ,
> Its like Sunday everyday , clean streets , no *** ends littering the gutters, people waving and calling out to complete strangers  this is London . No traffic , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives , It's like going back in time 50 years.


I was just saying to my OH yesterday that I feel like I'm living in my own little bubble of unreality. I still think that someone is going to jump out and announce we've all been had...

I drove up north last Friday 7 hours round trip. And whilst the return journey was a mission as I was absolutely knackered, the drive up was absolute heaven. I felt like I'd been set free :Joyful


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Is it wrong to say Im almost enjoying it?  Its surreal here. Yesterday , we got excited at seeing a plane over head. Look a plane ! I live near two airports  ,
> Its like Sunday everyday , clean streets , no *** ends littering the gutters, people waving and calling out to complete strangers  this is London . No traffic , no school parents blocking the pavements and drives , It's like going back in time 50 years.


Lucky you. The countryside is like a Sunday 50 years ago, ruddy people everywhere. They've nothing else to do, no sport, no shops, no eateries. Smothered in the buggers, with strong perfume, bright colours and very loud voices, the poor wildlife  Seven weeks of relative peace and now, just as the babies are born...............


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Lucky you. The countryside is like a Sunday 50 years ago, ruddy people everywhere. They've nothing else to do, no sport, no shops, no eateries. Smothered in the buggers, with strong perfume, bright colours and very loud voices, the poor wildlife  Seven weeks of relative peace and now, just as the babies are born...............


That's awful. Life here just goes on as normal and unless you watch the TV or read a newspaper you wouldn't know anything's wrong


----------



## Happy Paws2

I really think they have gone to far to soon, I still think we should be limited to how far we can go. I think been able to go rushing round the country side or to the beaches to crazy idea.


----------



## Snoringbear

kimthecat said:


> Its been requested by the owner of this site that this thread remains politics free. Its already been moderated and political post removed so please dont waste their time.


sorry, I must have missed that


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> I cant get an eye test and get new glasses


I'm in the same boat. I think when your eyes are tested you should be given the prescription, that way at least you could get a cheap pair from ''Glasses Direct'' (or whatever they are called) to tide you over until you can get to an optician. The last place I got my (unbelievably expensive) pair of glasses are not answering their phone so I can't ask them for the prescription.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Calvine said:


> I'm in the same boat. I think when your eyes are tested you should be given the prescription, that way at least you could get a cheap pair from ''Glasses Direct'' (or whatever they are called) to tide you over until you can get to an optician. The last place I got my (unbelievably expensive) pair of glasses are not answering their phone so I can't ask them for the prescription.


I had my eyes tested at asda (dont judge!). And I think they always print your prescription out for you. I've been there twice now and each time I get the readout from the test. Then I buy from glasses direct. You often get offers on there and its affordable.

As a side note does anyone else hate the eye puff machines? They always make my eyes water like mad, then I try to keep my eyes wide open I cant, I'm all squinty and watery eyed. And the woman gives up in the end


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> eye puff machines?


It's very unpleasant . . . what's it for? No, never been given a prescription, will ask for one next time.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> It's very unpleasant . . . what's it for? No, never been given a prescription, will ask for one next time.


Doesn't it test pressure or something?


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> Just checked...what I want are all unavailable!
> 
> Im rereading things from my giant book cupboard and Im realiesing that Im missing a few books out of various series...which is super annoying now Ive noticed!:Shifty:Shy


Might there be someone one here that could help out?


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> I was just saying to my OH yesterday that I feel like I'm living in my own little bubble of unreality. I still think that someone is going to jump out and announce we've all been had...
> 
> I drove up north last Friday 7 hours round trip. And whilst the return journey was a mission as I was absolutely knackered, the drive up was absolute heaven. I felt like I'd been set free :Joyful


I know that feeling. Ive often got in my car and just drive up the M40 for no reason.

It feels like Stepford Wives here , everyone polite . Creepy!


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## rona

rona said:


> Been on hold on phone to HMRC for 30 minutes now
> 
> Went through all this earlier and something went wrong, been on the phone for well over an hour and half today listening to the two same short bit of music over and over again
> 
> They cut lines at 4pm!


Well after yesterdays debacle, today was a breeze. Only listen to one round of that horrid music and was done and dusted in 30minutes, with this lovely lady on the other end of the phone.
Had a couple of moments when the line seemed to crack but she always came clear again quickly............PHEW


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> It's very unpleasant . . . what's it for? No, never been given a prescription, will ask for one next time.


tests the pressure in your eye, especially importat if you are diabetic or have an immediate relative with/had glaucoma



HarlequinCat said:


> I had my eyes tested at asda (dont judge!). And I think they always print your prescription out for you. I've been there twice now and each time I get the readout from the test. Then I buy from glasses direct. You often get offers on there and its affordable.
> 
> As a side note does anyone else hate the eye puff machines? They always make my eyes water like mad, then I try to keep my eyes wide open I cant, I'm all squinty and watery eyed. And the woman gives up in the end


no judgement here, I go to a private opticians for eye test, but only because, as a diabetic with my mother having had glaucoma, i get it free
but
I always take my prescription to asda to fill
they are such a good price and include varifocals for free and often have 2 for 1 deals, which means i can get prescription sun glasses, as well as normal ones

I have sjogrens as a comorbid of SLE, so the puff machine is unbearable for me, just have to clench the teeth and have the fake tears on hand

edit because my mother had glaucoma, not my other


----------



## Cully

HarlequinCat said:


> As a side note does anyone else hate the eye puff machines? They always make my eyes water like mad, then I try to keep my eyes wide open I cant, I'm all squinty and watery eyed. And the woman gives up in the end





Calvine said:


> It's very unpleasant . . . what's it for? No, never been given a prescription, will ask for one next time.





MilleD said:


> Doesn't it test pressure or something?


I remember my optometrist explaining it tests the pressure within the eye which can be a symptom of Glaucoma, and if left undiagnosed can lead to blindness. Admittedly it's not pleasant as your natural reaction is to avoid anything touching your eye. But it's only air and not harmful, and definitely worth putting up with for a few seconds.
Holding your eyes open makes them feel uncomfortable because the eye surface dries out if you're unable to blink. Try and have a few good blinks just before the 'puff' and ask if she/he will warn you. Mine is very kind and counts down from 5, so I get a few blinks in before the puff at 1.:Wideyed


----------



## Cully

Sorry @mrs phas , crossed posted


----------



## Snoringbear

I've had the eye puff thing at eye tests. Does sound a lot worse than it actually is. My advice, which solved things when I was a little off put from the idea the first time, was that the optician suggested puffing it against my hand so I could feel the pressure. The actual eye puff was relatively comfortable after that.


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> Sorry @mrs phas , crossed posted


no apology needed,
better two independant explanations
than none at all


----------



## Magyarmum

Very worrying!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ew-cluster-carries-virus-longer-than-in-wuhan

*China's New Outbreak Shows Signs the Virus Could Be Changing*


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> Very worrying!
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ew-cluster-carries-virus-longer-than-in-wuhan
> 
> *China's New Outbreak Shows Signs the Virus Could Be Changing*


Is it worrying?
Reading the article it's a bit here and there that's what I got from it.

Dr Harries has already addressed here several times that people are testing positive long after recovering with Covid-19 due to dead or rather debris type tissue still left behind if that makes sense. People's lymphocytes are basically not 'eating the buggers' as I would say. I am guessing if you have had a bad case it would surprise me. I had sepsis a few years ago. Antibiotics and quick succession of saline solution; water therapy cured me but wow did I feel off for months. It certainly attacked my immune system and body system. Oh and yes the cause of sepsis was treated. But it was sepsis that made me feel unwell.
Even though the vast majority of people of feel OK with Covid-19. I am presuming it's still doing a some damage as some Dr's are amazed how when people are admitted to hospital and have Covid-19 they aren't actually unconscious with low oxygen levels. In any other illness they would be. Unless you do have ability to check at home, some will some won't. Then you will never know. 
Of course this is me randomly thinking aloud but being asymptomatic, or mild symptoms doesn't mean the virus hasn't caused any problems per se. Currently isn't and won't be important to study this, unless something happens.

However its always been the known that viruses do and will mutate.

I think we will have to wait to see if anything more is said on this subject


----------



## SbanR

Anyone following the 5 o'clock update? Robert Peston looks like he's trying to cultivate a moustache. He'll look so silly with one


----------



## Lurcherlad

On BBC newsfeed:










There were many more places in a similar situation 

You can't educate pork!


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> On BBC newsfeed:
> 
> View attachment 440070
> 
> 
> There were many more places in a similar situation
> 
> You can't educate pork!


funny enough
we had the traffic warden ( or whatever theyre called now) around the estate today, not that we live anywhere remotely nice, but maybe a huge parking sweep going on nationally? who knows?
they were ticketing all the vans that were parked in dangerous places, blind corners, illegal side of urban clearway signs, double parked ( cos there is just NOT enough parking here, built when maybe one in three had a car, now nearly three cars per house) and causing obstructions to delivery and bin lorries
also
leaving notes telling them this is a residential area, not an industrial estate and that their vans/small lorries were causing more obstructions, due to taking up whole parking bays, that are meant for min of three cars

how do i know this
well im a sticky beak when it comes to near my home, so i went out and, socially distant, asked him what was what
i then applauded him, 
as,
in the last 5 years, there have been 5 children knocked down, purely due to the increase of large vans/ small lorries parking up, blocking pathways or line of sight, and, causing cars to have to swing out, blindly, from a very busy, even in lockdown A road, into potentially, oncoming cars,
its more by sheer luck than chance none have been killed ( children have to cross the road to get to the park, which is along from my house)
but
if the increase in cat deaths in the road, which is a cul de sac, so not even a through road, is any indication, it may, sadly, not be long


----------



## Happy Paws2

So is easing lockdown a good idea

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> funny enough
> we had the traffic warden ( or whatever theyre called now) around the estate today, not that we live anywhere remotely nice, but maybe a huge parking sweep going on nationally? who knows?
> they were ticketing all the vans that were parked in dangerous places, blind corners, illegal side of urban clearway signs, double parked ( cos there is just NOT enough parking here, built when maybe one in three had a car, now nearly three cars per house) and causing obstructions to delivery and bin lorries
> also
> leaving notes telling them this is a residential area, not an industrial estate and that their vans/small lorries were causing more obstructions, due to taking up whole parking bays, that are meant for min of three cars
> 
> how do i know this
> well im a sticky beak when it comes to near my home, so i went out and, socially distant, asked him what was what
> i then applauded him,
> as,
> in the last 5 years, there have been 5 children knocked down, purely due to the increase of large vans/ small lorries parking up, blocking pathways or line of sight, and, causing cars to have to swing out, blindly, from a very busy, even in lockdown A road, into potentially, oncoming cars,
> its more by sheer luck than chance none have been killed ( children have to cross the road to get to the park, which is along from my house)
> but
> if the increase in cat deaths in the road, which is a cul de sac, so not even a through road, is any indication, it may, sadly, not be long


I think @Lurcherlad 's post was to do with all the people going to the beaches in Devon and abandoning cars to walk to rest of the way as there was gridlock rather than any sinister national traffic warden ticketing plan.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> So is easing lockdown a good idea
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519


If that common sense that has been mentioned had been used, it would have been a good idea.

I can't talk I suppose, I did a 7 hour round trip on Friday, but I didn't go to a beach (there was one near), and I didn't even stay overnight as that would be against the rules when I could have (and wish I had, was shattered on the drive home).

Looking at that lot, I'm not sure why I bothered.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> If that common sense that has been mentioned had been used, it would have been a good idea.


The problem is that people think it's only them going out, they forget everyone else is thinking the same, common sense has just goes down the plug hole.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> The problem is that people think it's only them going out, they forget everyone else is thinking the same, common sense has just goes down the plug hole.


Generally they are only thinking of themselves and what they want rather then considering others. I'm not surprised all the locals are up in arms as their hospitals can only only cope with a few people when compared to big city hospitals.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I'm not surprised all the locals are up in arms as their hospitals can only only cope with a few people when compared to big city hospitals.


I imagine alot of those people will have come from bigger cities and will be taking the risk of infection home with them as well. I suppose we will find out in a week or two if the rates spike again.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> I imagine alot of those people will have come from bigger cities and will be taking the risk of infection home with them as well. I suppose we will find out in a week or two if the rates spike again.


We had a few strangers in the village going on walks, they can be spotted consulting maps as it's very easy to get lost here. Thankfully not the hoards seen on the beaches, one of the reasons we live here is that it's a village that's not on the Cotswolds tourist trail. I can imagine places like Bourton on the Water are inundated with all the older locals scared to go out.


----------



## ForestWomble

While I agree with reducing lockdown gradually, I do think allowing unlimited travel and stay out as long as you like was a huge mistake, I'm now more scared then I was when in complete lockdown.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’ve just been out for an 8 mile bike ride - partly rural where I passed a few people but with room to SD.

I decided to cycle into town and was pleased to see it’s still relatively quiet and most people were SDing.

Still the odd **** who gives no consideration to others and I had to divert to avoid close contact (tricky cycling at the edge of the road with traffic wanting to pass) but I just kept my wits about me and anticipated the knobheads.


----------



## rona

Went very early to walk my friends dog, he was still in bed, so slipped the dog out
Came back nearly 2 hours later and still no sign of him  I thought he might have died...........what do you do? 
He hasn't been sleeping and if he was asleep I didn't want to wake him........!!
I went home and waited for a call which luckily came just an hour or so later. I would have gone back at about 11am had he not called.

Bit of a shock though


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> but I just kept my wits about me and anticipated the knobheads.


Maybe we will soon see new roadsigns. 
WARNING! KNOBHEADS APPROACHING!
I'd get yours patented asap before everyone's doing it.


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Went very early to walk my friends dog, he was still in bed, so slipped the dog out
> Came back nearly 2 hours later and still no sign of him  I thought he might have died...........what do you do?
> He hasn't been sleeping and if he was asleep I didn't want to wake him........!!
> I went home and waited for a call which luckily came just an hour or so later. I would have gone back at about 11am had he not called.
> 
> Bit of a shock though


I'd have prodded him for my own peace of mind.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> I'd have prodded him for my own peace of mind.


What about social distancing?

He's extremely vulnerable


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> While I agree with reducing lockdown gradually, I do think allowing unlimited travel and stay out as long as you like was a huge mistake, I'm now more scared then I was when in complete lockdown.


Don't worry, as long as you keep yourself safe and don't allow anyone in your home that isn't supposed to be there you will be fine.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

ForestWomble said:


> While I agree with reducing lockdown gradually, I do think allowing unlimited travel and stay out as long as you like was a huge mistake, I'm now more scared then I was when in complete lockdown.


But remember the rate of infections have been going down despite the fact that we get many media reports of people flocking together. If it is the case infections are decreasing despite more people getting out and about that is a good thing. I know how you feel though, I am living away from my own home, away from my husband, my dog and my cats and its bloody hard. I am doing so because I provide care for my elderly mother and the risk of coming and going just felt to high so I had to make this decision.

Everyday on the local pages people are reporting the town is too busy, everyday during the first 6 weeks of lockdown people were posting how we would never come out of lockdown restrictions would never be lifted they would be tightened and we wouldn't be allowed out at all, but restrictions have been lifted at least a little and it seems like they are still on course to be lifted further in a couple of weeks, this is despite what people have been reporting about to many people out and about. I tell myself its a good thing if people are going out more but infection rates are dropping, we are on the right track.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Magyarmum

3dogs2cats said:


> But remember the rate of infections have been going down despite the fact that we get many media reports of people flocking together. If it is the case infections are decreasing despite more people getting out and about that is a good thing. I know how you feel though, I am living away from my own home, away from my husband, my dog and my cats and its bloody hard. I am doing so because I provide care for my elderly mother and the risk of coming and going just felt to high so I had to make this decision.
> 
> Everyday on the local pages people are reporting the town is too busy, everyday during the first 6 weeks of lockdown people were posting how we would never come out of lockdown restrictions would never be lifted they would be tightened and we wouldn't be allowed out at all, but restrictions have been lifted at least a little and it seems like they are still on course to be lifted further in a couple of weeks, this is despite what people have been reporting about to many people out and about. I tell myself its a good thing if people are going out more but infection rates are dropping, we are on the right track.


The problem is that you won't know if the infection rates have gone down for another two weeks. Our restrictions were lifted for most of Hungary,apart from Budapest and Pest County just over two weeks and over the past two days the infection rate has started to creep up again. Last Monday restrictions were lifted on the capital which is where the most infections occurred. We'll have to wait another two weeks to see what effect that has on the figures and whether it will be necessary to go into lock down again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Hungary

*COVID-19 pandemic in Hungary*


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Magyarmum said:


> The problem is that you won't know if the infection rates have gone down for another two weeks. Our restrictions were lifted for most of Hungary,apart from Budapest and Pest County just over two weeks and over the past two days the infection rate has started to creep up again. Last Monday restrictions were lifted on the capital which is where the most infections occurred. We'll have to wait another two weeks to see what effect that has on the figures and whether it will be necessary to go into lock down again.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Hungary
> 
> *COVID-19 pandemic in Hungary*


Yes I know and officially the restrictions were only lifted 9 days ago so to early to say what sort of impact it will have on infections but people have been saying for weeks that there are far to many people about, certainly in the last couple of weeks this town, which attracts a lot of tourists, has been reported to be as busy as it is in the summer holidays. If this is the case around the country and has been for a number of weeks and infections are still dropping then that is a good thing.


----------



## HarlequinCat

We went along the spur road yesterday for a quiet walk in the forests further inland. The amount of cars coming in from the other way to bournemouth from London and Southampton was as if it was a normal summer day. We heard the beach was packed. I dont get it. Why go somewhere that is bound to be busy with not enough of your own personal space, especially at the moment. I guess on nice days its easy to forget it all!

Our walk was nice though, not many people, and those we did pass kept distance to each other but still shouted morning as they went. Saw a dartford warbler too!


----------



## Magyarmum

I had a really weird experience last night :Wideyed

I was watching "The Tudors" on HBO and it was the episode where the "sweating sickness" swept though England. 

Would you believe everyone at the Royal Court was either wearing masks or social distancing. Anne Boleyn became infected, but lived and Henry 8th fled to the country where he went into self isolation.

In the end Henry was told by his advisors he must return to London because the country was suffering from both the lack of leader and economically.

Sound familiar?

https://www.history.com/news/the-mysterious-epidemic-that-terrified-henry-viii

*The Mysterious Epidemic That Terrified Henry VIII*


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> I had a really weird experience last night :Wideyed
> 
> I was watching "The Tudors" on HBO and it was the episode where the "sweating sickness" swept though England.
> 
> Would you believe everyone at the Royal Court was either wearing masks or social distancing. Anne Boleyn became infected, but lived and Henry 8th fled to the country where he went into self isolation.
> 
> In the end Henry was told by his advisors he must return to London because the country was suffering from both the lack of leader and economically.
> 
> Sound familiar?
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/the-mysterious-epidemic-that-terrified-henry-viii
> 
> *The Mysterious Epidemic That Terrified Henry VIII*


There was an historian author on YouTube talking about whether or not the 'sweating sickness' is Covid-19. Here she is talking about it


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> There was an historian author on YouTube talking about whether or not the 'sweating sickness' is Covid-19. Here she is talking about it


Thanks for that!

I've always been interested in history and fascinated with epidemics which there have been more of in recent history than we realise, largely due to the loss of the natural habitat of creatures like rodents and bats. Gives me a new and interesting line of research!


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> I've always been interested in history and fascinated with epidemics which there have been more of in recent history than we realise, largely due to the loss of the natural habitat of creatures like rodents and bats. Gives me a new and interesting line of research!


I love history too, if I can't sleep I listen to history documentaries or true Crime. I know big difference.

I loved learning about Eyam as a child and the plague, although a very sad tale and have visited there.

Love Tudor history, medieval history too.

When we ever back to normality, the drama group I volunteer for is going to be doing a piece based loosely on our town. So it's Vikings. The people were so excited finding out, they are a mixed group of ages with additional needs. Am sure some my have looked into the history so it should be fun!


----------



## Jesthar

Well, things took a turn for the darker at work today - we had an e-mail round warning our site staff to be careful when doing remote site visits as there have been a spate of booby traps on telecoms towers designed to deliberately injure telecoms engineers, and although we're not telecoms ourselves some of our kit could be mistaken for telecoms gear to the uninitiated and targetted. 

Why? Because there are a bunch of wingnuts convinced that 5G either caused Covid-19 or contributes to spreading it... :Banghead


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> So is easing lockdown a good idea
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519


Ah but some may claim that we need to be spoon fed....  it's the most stupid idea and this is where ambiguity gets us. People are idiots.

My friend in North Cornwall is in danger of loosing his tourist based business, can't see his mum in London and has a sign on his premises that says closed and has had people bashing on the doors saying he should be open as the government said he can. He hires yurts and camper vans and is far from essential. He cannot open.


----------



## Boxer123

Jesthar said:


> Well, things took a turn for the darker at work today - we had an e-mail round warning our site staff to be careful when doing remote site visits as there have been a spate of booby traps on telecoms towers designed to deliberately injure telecoms engineers, and although we're not telecoms ourselves some of our kit could be mistaken for telecoms gear to the uninitiated and targetted.
> 
> Why? Because there are a bunch of wingnuts convinced that 5G either caused Covid-19 or contributes to spreading it... :Banghead


No words !


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Just looked online for a few books Im after and loads of places no longer delivering


Have you looked here?
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/?


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> Have you looked here?
> https://www.abebooks.co.uk/?cm_sp=TopNav-_-Home-_-Logo


Thanks, Im abit iffy about second hand books unless Ive seen them TBH. So far Waterstones seems to be the best bet!

Talking about coronavirus with a friend today and she said she read an article saying that we will pretty much just have to get out there and carry on living our lives regardless of coronavirus. I can see the point...if you have to cross a busy road you dont just not cross coz you might get run over, you mitigate the risk by crossing as safely as possible.
We need to get back to everyday life, people need to earn money, routine operations need to happen, kids need to go to school, etc. We will just have to try and mitigate the risks as much as possible whilst living our lives.


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Thanks, Im abit iffy about second hand books unless Ive seen them TBH. So far Waterstones seems to be the best bet!
> 
> Talking about coronavirus with a friend today and she said she read an article saying that we will pretty much just have to get out there and carry on living our lives regardless of coronavirus. I can see the point...if you have to cross a busy road you dont just not cross coz you might get run over, you mitigate the risk by crossing as safely as possible.
> We need to get back to everyday life, people need to earn money, routine operations need to happen, kids need to go to school, etc. We will just have to try and mitigate the risks as much as possible whilst living our lives.


so back to herd immunity then?


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> so back to herd immunity then?


The hospitals are all getting back to normal, covid admissions have drastically reduced. We cant just stay at home forever...at some point we have to go back to our regular lives.
Personally I think its time to get back out there! If cases start to rise again then we can cut back contact but at some point we will be losing more people from preventable causes (undiagnosed cancers or mental health problems for example) then we are from this virus.


----------



## Sacrechat

Jesthar said:


> Well, things took a turn for the darker at work today - we had an e-mail round warning our site staff to be careful when doing remote site visits as there have been a spate of booby traps on telecoms towers designed to deliberately injure telecoms engineers, and although we're not telecoms ourselves some of our kit could be mistaken for telecoms gear to the uninitiated and targetted.
> 
> Why? Because there are a bunch of wingnuts convinced that 5G either caused Covid-19 or contributes to spreading it... :Banghead


This is due to the crackpot conspiracy theorist David Icke who claims 5G is responsible for Covid 19.

I also had the misfortune of being sent another off the wall conspiracy YouTube video about Qanon and the Cabal. I seem to be haunted by conspiracy theorists since we've been in lockdown.


----------



## Sacrechat

catz4m8z said:


> The hospitals are all getting back to normal, covid admissions have drastically reduced. We cant just stay at home forever...at some point we have to go back to our regular lives.
> Personally I think its time to get back out there! If cases start to rise again then we can cut back contact but at some point we will be losing more people from preventable causes (undiagnosed cancers or mental health problems for example) then we are from this virus.


My husband has gone back to work. He's technically retired but has continued to run his own business and doesn't want to stop, so he said he's not staying home anymore. He does work alone and is keeping a safe distance when talking to customers.


----------



## Calvine

Sacremist said:


> This is due to the crackpot conspiracy theorist David Icke who claims 5G is responsible for Covid 19.


Lord, there's a name I've not heard for years . . . is he still spouting rubbish? I thought he'd have been locked up by now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> The hospitals are all getting back to normal, covid admissions have drastically reduced. We cant just stay at home forever...at some point we have to go back to our regular lives.
> Personally I think its time to get back out there! If cases start to rise again then we can cut back contact but at some point we will be losing more people from preventable causes (undiagnosed cancers or mental health problems for example) then we are from this virus.


Unfortunately, I think this will be the case as vaccinations for everybody are a very long way off.

I was watching a doctor the other day talking along the lines that historically pandemics do tend to fizzle out on the own. We haven't always had medicine to fight them historically. He was a cancer doctor and was talking of the ramifications for his patients (and other fields) were hard felt because of focusing (understandably) on covid, but eventually some return to normal service is essential otherwise those losses could be greater than covid's.

Not to mention the devastating effects on the economy.

I think it will eventually be an individual decision how soon we start to reintegrate (within official guidelines).

Certainly, even if all restrictions were lifted tomorrow, we three as a family won't be rushing to join in.

Even DS will want to continue to work from home as long as possible to protect his dad (and his company are accepting of that, thankfully, as it's working so well for all of them).

If the path back to "normal" is gradual enough (hopefully with a vaccine too) among the fit and strong maybe herd immunity can be achieved without risking another uncontrollable spike and at least now with the resources and knowledge to manage it successfully.


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> Well, things took a turn for the darker at work today - we had an e-mail round warning our site staff to be careful when doing remote site visits as there have been a spate of booby traps on telecoms towers designed to deliberately injure telecoms engineers, and although we're not telecoms ourselves some of our kit could be mistaken for telecoms gear to the uninitiated and targetted.
> 
> Why? Because there are a bunch of wingnuts convinced that 5G either caused Covid-19 or contributes to spreading it... :Banghead


 WTF. How do they think its possible?


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Lord, there's a name I've not heard for years . . . is he still spouting rubbish? I thought he'd have been locked up by now.


Oh he's still around. The idiots on London Live have just been sanctioned for allowing him to air his views. https://advanced-television.com/2020/04/20/ofcom-icke-interview-broke-broadcasting-rules/

And YouTube have finally done something right https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-02/youtube-terminates-david-ickes-account/


----------



## SbanR

Sacremist said:


> This is due to the crackpot conspiracy theorist David Icke who claims 5G is responsible for Covid 19.
> 
> I also had the misfortune of being sent another off the wall conspiracy YouTube video about Qanon and the Cabal. I seem to be haunted by conspiracy theorists since we've been in lockdown.


Is he still wearing his tracksuits? Purple??


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Unfortunately, I think this will be the case as vaccinations for everybody are a very long way off.
> 
> I was watching a doctor the other day talking along the lines that historically pandemics do tend to fizzle out on the own. We haven't always had medicine to fight them historically. He was a cancer doctor and was talking of the ramifications for his patients (and other fields) were hard felt because of focusing (understandably) on covid, but eventually some return to normal service is essential otherwise those losses could be greater than covid's.
> 
> Not to mention the devastating effects on the economy.
> 
> I think it will eventually be an individual decision how soon we start to reintegrate (within official guidelines).
> 
> Certainly, even if all restrictions were lifted tomorrow, we three as a family won't be rushing to join in.
> 
> Even DS will want to continue to work from home as long as possible to protect his dad (and his company are accepting of that, thankfully, as it's working so well for all of them).
> 
> If the path back to "normal" is gradual enough (hopefully with a vaccine too) among the fit and strong maybe herd immunity can be achieved without risking another uncontrollable spike and at least now with the resources and knowledge to manage it successfully.


I watched the same interview and it was interesting about pandemics petering out of their own accord although I dare say that herd immunity played a part.

We won't be rushing to go out and join the masses either. I need not only to stay healthy prior to the operation but also afterwards in order to allow my body to heal and recover. I guess I would be pretty vulnerable to the virus at the post op stage.


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> Well, things took a turn for the darker at work today - we had an e-mail round warning our site staff to be careful when doing remote site visits as there have been a spate of booby traps on telecoms towers designed to deliberately injure telecoms engineers, and although we're not telecoms ourselves some of our kit could be mistaken for telecoms gear to the uninitiated and targetted.
> 
> Why? Because there are a bunch of wingnuts convinced that 5G either caused Covid-19 or contributes to spreading it... :Banghead


There should be an emoji for 'shaking head in disbelief'. I would use it a lot at the moment.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> There should be an emoji for 'shaking head in disbelief'. I would use it a lot at the moment.


The facepalm one works well in this case: :Facepalm better version below, or this one :Banghead


----------



## Happy Paws2

Happy Paws2 said:


> So is easing lockdown a good idea
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519


Just add this taken on Wednesday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52754039


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I watched the same interview and it was interesting about pandemics petering out of their own accord although I dare say that herd immunity played a part.


I think things probably even out TBH. Health care was much worse with no hope of vaccines but people couldnt travel the vast distances they do nowadays so containing it would of been much easier.
Whilst I dont think we should all crowd into pubs/nightclubs or gather in masses (people on the beach...Im talking about you!) I do think that its time to start opening up the non essential services now. Although I dont know how some will manage...like hairdressers for instance, cant socially distance there.
Also dentists and opticians might find it difficult, and given that optician can pick up signs of diabetes, cancers, glaucoma, etc with routine eye tests it would be nice to get them up and running.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

rona said:


> Have you looked here?
> https://www.abebooks.co.uk/?


I use this site too. I've had a couple of books from them during lockdown - ordered one on Ferryhill and it arrived the next day!

J


----------



## rona

Last clap for carers next week.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Last clap for carers next week.


Why is that?


----------



## Sacrechat

Calvine said:


> Lord, there's a name I've not heard for years . . . is he still spouting rubbish? I thought he'd have been locked up by now.


I'm not sure when the interview took place, but one of my Facebook friends posted it with him talking about Covid 19 being the result of 5G so it must be fairly recent. I had heard he was hospitalised at one point because he claimed to be Jesus, but not sure if it's true or not.


----------



## Sacrechat

SbanR said:


> Is he still wearing his tracksuits? Purple??


Lol! I can't remember exactly what he was wearing. I have in mind trousers and a shirt, but wouldn't swear to it.


----------



## JoanneF

I hate myself for thinking I know this, but wasn't it turquoise? And there was a meaning behind that?


----------



## Sacrechat

JoanneF said:


> I hate myself for thinking I know this, but wasn't it turquoise? And there was a meaning behind that?


If you mean his shirt then, yes, I think it might have been blue. Not sure what it's supposed to mean though.


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> hospitalised at one point because he claimed to be Jesus, but not sure if it's true or not.


I can't remember if he was hospitalised but yes he spouted he was the son of God for a while....

I saw a bit of real London on YouTube interviewing him, don't ask why. He talked the typical nonsense about he knew this was going to happen having paperwork from somewhere, blah blah. He stated that a pandemic would hit and we would all have to social distance and isolate. I was like.. Wow as if this is a new thing. As @Magyarmum noted this is historical action not totally new thing to do with diseases with no known cure. Complete numpty.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> If you mean his shirt then, yes, I think it might have been blue. Not sure what it's supposed to mean though.


according to wiki

*Turquoise period*

Icke's turquoise period followed an experience by a burial site in Sillustani, Peru, in 1991.
There followed what Icke called his "turquoise period". He had been channelling for some time, he wrote, and had received a message through automatic writing that he was a "Son of the Godhead", interpreting "Godhead" as the "Infinite Mind".[67] He began to wear only turquoise, often a turquoise shell suit, a colour he saw as a conduit for positive energy.[68][69] He also started working on his third book, and the first of his New-Age period, _The Truth Vibrations_.

In August 1990, before his visit to Peru, Icke met Deborah Shaw, an English psychic living in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. When he returned from Peru they began a relationship, with the apparent blessing of Icke's wife. In March 1991 Shaw began living with the couple, a short-lived arrangement that the press called the "turquoise triangle". Shaw changed her name to Mari Shawsun, while Icke's wife became Michaela, which she said was an aspect of the Archangel Michael.[70][71]

The relationship with Shaw led to the birth of a daughter in December 1991, although she and Icke had stopped seeing each other by then. Icke wrote in 1993 that he decided not to visit his daughter and had seen her only once, at Shaw's request. Icke's wife gave birth to the couple's second son in November 1992.[72][73]


----------



## JoanneF

mrs phas said:


> according to wiki
> 
> *Turquoise period*
> 
> Icke's turquoise period followed an experience by a burial site in Sillustani, Peru, in 1991.
> There followed what Icke called his "turquoise period". He had been channelling for some time, he wrote, and had received a message through automatic writing that he was a "Son of the Godhead", interpreting "Godhead" as the "Infinite Mind".[67] He began to wear only turquoise, often a turquoise shell suit, a colour he saw as a conduit for positive energy.[68][69] He also started working on his third book, and the first of his New-Age period, _The Truth Vibrations_.
> 
> In August 1990, before his visit to Peru, Icke met Deborah Shaw, an English psychic living in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. When he returned from Peru they began a relationship, with the apparent blessing of Icke's wife. In March 1991 Shaw began living with the couple, a short-lived arrangement that the press called the "turquoise triangle". Shaw changed her name to Mari Shawsun, while Icke's wife became Michaela, which she said was an aspect of the Archangel Michael.[70][71]
> 
> The relationship with Shaw led to the birth of a daughter in December 1991, although she and Icke had stopped seeing each other by then. Icke wrote in 1993 that he decided not to visit his daughter and had seen her only once, at Shaw's request. Icke's wife gave birth to the couple's second son in November 1992.[72][73]


Oh dear, I'm doomed.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Why is that?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52773032

I heard her on the radio and I think she's starting to get worried that it's now being used as some sort of judgement on people


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52773032
> 
> I heard her on the radio and I think she's starting to get worried that it's now being used as some sort of judgement on people


It is a nice gesture from the general public but it does tend to make you think of all the years you have struggled at work with no staff, staying late, crappy wages and pathetic pay rises....that year your managers 'rewarded' you for all your hard work with a Mars bar! :Hilarious
But if it makes people think and be more proactive about protecting their health service then great (maybe the news could just stop showing apathetic politicians mugging for the cameras whilst trying to show how much they care!):Shifty.


----------



## O2.0

Well this is not good news...
https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...vqh3dI3D-O0Wlm-3zbIiEgSYLvY0G6JWqrcrlTkVwJ_Yo

1 in 5 Adults in England think the Coronavirus is a hoax

Off to see what the figures are here in the US.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Well this is not good news...
> https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...vqh3dI3D-O0Wlm-3zbIiEgSYLvY0G6JWqrcrlTkVwJ_Yo
> 
> 1 in 5 Adults in England think the Coronavirus is a hoax
> 
> Off to see what the figures are here in the US.


I really think anyone who thinks it's a hoax should have worked in a care home in the uk for a week then male there mind up. I used to be a carer and when one resident passed away it was upsetting.

One of the homes in my area lost 15 in one week during the peak. That's 15 families grieving and I can't imagine what the workers must have gone through.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> Well this is not good news...
> https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...vqh3dI3D-O0Wlm-3zbIiEgSYLvY0G6JWqrcrlTkVwJ_Yo
> 
> 1 in 5 Adults in England think the Coronavirus is a hoax
> 
> Off to see what the figures are here in the US.


That's just odd.. They are usually good at picking a random sample but I do wonder sometimes with some stats I have seen. Though @Jesthar commented a little on this earlier in the week, that her company being somewhat under attack. Those out in the field mistaken for those working for phone companies/5G network. Its ridiculous


----------



## rona

O2.0 said:


> Well this is not good news...
> https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...vqh3dI3D-O0Wlm-3zbIiEgSYLvY0G6JWqrcrlTkVwJ_Yo
> 
> 1 in 5 Adults in England think the Coronavirus is a hoax
> 
> Off to see what the figures are here in the US.


Has Mr Trump got money in that news medium?

I cannot believe that. Far too many people have followed directions from the government, with only a few blatantly disregarding it


----------



## [email protected]

rona said:


> Last clap for carers next week.


To be honest, it got to be a bit of a show-offy thing.... who can clap the loudest etc etc. Then the fireworks . It is bird nesting season for goodness sake....saw all the birds flying around startled by the noise, and decided to no longer participate.


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> Has Mr Trump got money in that news medium?


No, NPR is a well-respected news source. They do lean left, but consistently score very high on factual reporting on media fact-check sources, and are fully transparent about their funding.

As I've said multiple times in several threads. these conspiracy theories, completely unsubstantiated 'facts' about the virus and it's origin, and all the other covid-19 related ridiculousness being shared are really triggering me. Not sure what I'm finding so bothersome (other than the obvious). And I'm only on FB, don't even do twitter and instagram or any of the others.

At it's core, these fallacies being shared are no different than the "a bitch needs to have one litter" myths we've dealt with for years, so I guess it's normal, human nature, what have you, but gosh it's frustrating every time I see something shared by people I thought were smart enough to know better.

And who creates these myths, inaccuracies and conspiracies? To what end? 
What on earth purpose does it serve to blame 5G for spreading the virus? Or saying China unleashed the virus deliberately? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure it out, but I just can't see the point.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Last clap for carers next week.


There wasn't so many people around here came out last week, I seem to think the novelty of who can clap the loudest has started to where off.


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> They are usually good at picking a random sample but I do wonder sometimes with some stats I have seen.


The study is here, small sample size, only 2500 people:
The questions asked start on p.19, they were interesting for sure!


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> The study is here, small sample size, only 2500 people:
> The questions asked start on p.19, they were interesting for sure!


It's Oxford University, they are usually good at picking a random selection of people to participate in surveys for analysis.. So you would think even though sample is small as they do this sort of think often. The sample shows a good sample of the population.. Not like other surveys where there could be a lot of bias. So sometimes the sample doesn't have to be always be huge depending whose sourcing it.. If that makes sense. 
Though of course it depends but on public opinion they are usually good!


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> No, NPR is a well-respected news source. They do lean left, but consistently score very high on factual reporting on media fact-check sources, and are fully transparent about their funding.
> 
> As I've said multiple times in several threads. these conspiracy theories, completely unsubstantiated 'facts' about the virus and it's origin, and all the other covid-19 related ridiculousness being shared are really triggering me. Not sure what I'm finding so bothersome (other than the obvious). And I'm only on FB, don't even do twitter and instagram or any of the others.
> 
> At it's core, these fallacies being shared are no different than the "a bitch needs to have one litter" myths we've dealt with for years, so I guess it's normal, human nature, what have you, but gosh it's frustrating every time I see something shared by people I thought were smart enough to know better.
> 
> And who creates these myths, inaccuracies and conspiracies? To what end?
> What on earth purpose does it serve to blame 5G for spreading the virus? Or saying China unleashed the virus deliberately? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure it out, but I just can't see the point.


Have you seen the YouTube documentary called Fall of the Cabal? That will either wind you up or leave you laughing hysterically:


----------



## Sacrechat

Happy Paws2 said:


> There wasn't so many people around here came out last week, I seem to think the novelty of who can clap the loudest has started to where off.


To be honest, we completely forgot about it this week.


----------



## Jesthar

lullabydream said:


> That's just odd.. They are usually good at picking a random sample but I do wonder sometimes with some stats I have seen. Though @Jesthar commented a little on this earlier in the week, that her company being somewhat under attack. Those out in the field mistaken for those working for phone companies/5G network. Its ridiculous


I should clarify, thankfully we haven't had any attacks ourselves (as far as I am aware, anyway) aware of, we've just been warned stay alert (in the PROPER sense of the phrase, Boris...  ) when dealing with certain kinds of equipment, as it is possible our kit might get mistaken for telecoms gear and booby trapped as well. Quite a few telecoms engineers have been threatened and even assaulted, though. There have been quite a lot of arson attacks on mobile towers too - over 70 last I looked. Most of them weren't even on the 5G rollout plan yet, let alone have any kit installed.

Not that 5G conspiracy theories started with Covid-19, though - they were around well before that. C-19 just gave the fear factor enough of a push that they have spread beyond the regular tinfoil hat brigade into a wider audience. Unfortunately some celebrities have jumped on the bandwagon too, which isn't helping. There's a pretty good overview of the various conflicting conspiracies here: https://fullfact.org/online/5g-and-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-came/


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> There's a pretty good overview of the various conflicting conspiracies here: https://fullfact.org/online/5g-and-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-came/


 wow......:Wideyed some people are just dumb as ***k arent they!?:Hilarious


----------



## Bisbow

Makes you wonder what some people have got between their ears doesn't it


----------



## rona

Next door has family round 

Child, dog and four adults, they aren't just staying in her garden either  Apparently it's her birthday!


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Next door has family round
> 
> Child, dog and four adults, they aren't just staying in her garden either  Apparently it's her birthday!


----------



## ForestWomble

O2.0 said:


> No, NPR is a well-respected news source. They do lean left, but consistently score very high on factual reporting on media fact-check sources, and are fully transparent about their funding.
> 
> As I've said multiple times in several threads. these conspiracy theories, completely unsubstantiated 'facts' about the virus and it's origin, and all the other covid-19 related ridiculousness being shared are really triggering me. Not sure what I'm finding so bothersome (other than the obvious). And I'm only on FB, don't even do twitter and instagram or any of the others.
> 
> At it's core, these fallacies being shared are no different than the "a bitch needs to have one litter" myths we've dealt with for years, so I guess it's normal, human nature, what have you, but gosh it's frustrating every time I see something shared by people I thought were smart enough to know better.
> *
> And who creates these myths, inaccuracies and conspiracies? To what end?
> What on earth purpose does it serve to blame 5G for spreading the virus? Or saying China unleashed the virus deliberately?* Maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure it out, but I just can't see the point.


Maybe it's a mix of needing to find something/someone to blame and a weird need to want '5 minutes of fame'?


----------



## MollySmith

Today's front page, the names of those who have died in the USA from Covid-19. Sobering.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Next door has family round
> 
> Child, dog and four adults, they aren't just staying in her garden either  Apparently it's her birthday!


I just spent my birthday on my own with no company and not even a card because my family, friends and I have been obeying the rules so that selfish dickheads like your neighbours (not your fault) will have enough healthy NHS staff to look after them if they become sick.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> I just spent my birthday on my own with no company and not even a card because my family, friends and I have been obeying the rules so that selfish dickheads like your neighbours (not your fault) will have enough healthy NHS staff to look after them if they become sick.


Same here, oh my husband was here as well, got flowers and lovely cards from various family members. But like you stayed firmly at home with no visitors apart from a friend who dropped off a birthday cake


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> apart from a friend who dropped off a birthday cake


Same here....except I was still infectious so friend dropped cake round in full PPE!:Hilarious

(now thats friendship!!LOL)


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> Same here....except I was still infectious so friend dropped cake round in full PPE!:Hilarious
> 
> (now thats friendship!!LOL)


My friend waved to me through the patio doors and left the cake on a planter. Once she had left I just had to beat Isla to my cake


----------



## purringcats

rona said:


> Next door has family round
> 
> Child, dog and four adults, they aren't just staying in her garden either  Apparently it's her birthday!


I have given up complaining about my next door neighbour. There has been multiple people going around to hers everyday since the lockdown started and she has been fly tipping. The police came around at the beginning but are not interested now, there response "it is a grey area" and they don't know if they can do anything and if the current advice is enforceable.


----------



## Lurcherlad

purringcats said:


> I have given up complaining about my next door neighbour. There has been multiple people going around to hers everyday since the lockdown started and she has been fly tipping. The police came around at the beginning but are not interested now, there response "it is a grey area" and they don't know if they can do anything and if the current advice is enforceable.


Just keep well away from them to keep yourself safe.


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> Next door has family round
> 
> Child, dog and four adults, they aren't just staying in her garden either  Apparently it's her birthday!


Same here. Neighbours have frends visit ( with child in tow). Loud music and chatter, raucous laughter annoying thump, thump, thump of football hitting their fence


----------



## Happy Paws2

Neighbours a few house up have had people visiting nearly everyday although the lockdown.


----------



## shadowmare

Awkward moment when you drive 100miles for a walk on the beach only to find out that you're in the wrong part of country and are actually breaking the rules :Hilarious

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ngland-18306085.amp?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## MollySmith

I just wondered what everyone felt about this, in view of other news (political that we can't discuss here). I feel panicstricken to be honest, I've no intention of going out more than I have been already (one a week). It feels much to soon against the number of deaths and I've lost all confidence.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I won’t be changing what I do for a good while yet tbh


----------



## Boxer123

I’m working from home for another month so won’t be changing my behaviour. I’m still going out for exercise and that’s it. I’m still very worried.


----------



## lullabydream

I don't know how education in schools is going to work.. 

Currently reception and year 1 and year 6 are going back, and schools are working in 'bubbles' so have halfed classes, kept those key worker children separate from those returning. Having staggered starts, staggered playtime, lunches and school finishing time. Approximately 15 minutes apart. To avoid crowding/congestion in playground from parents etc.. But this may still happen as some parents have children in different age groups.

So schools years up having less children in classes , am talking primary I already know one primary which isn't allowing year 6 back because they won't have space if they follow guidelines. Yes small classes make sense, but where are these classrooms come from?
Prefab classes used to be drafted in many years ago. This used to cost schools money. Some schools don't have space, not all have large playgrounds for these or areas where they can be used.

The school hall, again these can be spacious and could be used, but some schools have halls the size of postage stamps. 

Parents are worried, some except children need to go back. I think as a whole they are shocked at the age of the children, and their development, more the tactile stage of development. 

Teachers are being honest, the guidance is stay away from students but they know this isn't possible. 

Oh I have also been heard one room is being set aside too for ill children who onset with any symptoms of Covid-19 so of course that's a high temperature being one of them. So they isolate there before being picked up by parent/carer ASAP.

A lot more cleaning is going on in schools, but I don't know the ins and out I haven't asked. I will get more info. 

Am guessing the path with everything more open, hoping the R rate goes down the small class sizes can go to their norm at some point I don't know. 

There has been lots of support from heads that they understand anxiety from parents so they won't be penalised for not going back.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> I won't be changing what I do for a good while yet tbh


the 12vweeks isnt up yet
so ill carry on


----------



## cheekyscrip

I was asked to come back to work if I want to. But if I am to rattle there on my own and kids not in school?
Old enough but still when I am home at least can make sure they eat food not junk, do chores and don’t sleep all day.


----------



## Jesthar

MollySmith said:


> I just wondered what everyone felt about this, in view of other news (political that we can't discuss here). I feel panicstricken to be honest, I've no intention of going out more than I have been already (one a week). It feels much to soon against the number of deaths and I've lost all confidence.]


I'm thinking I wish I lived in Wales or Scotland... I won't be changing anything, I have no wish to be part of this herd immunity experiment.

The sensible thing would have been to have waited a few weeks to see if the recent relaxations - and the bank holiday weekend - led to another spike. They say the R number is under 1, but it's still statistically likely that people testing positive now were exposed before the relaxations.

And that's all I'll say, as I suspect everything else would be a bit to political...


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MollySmith said:


> I just wondered what everyone felt about this, in view of other news (political that we can't discuss here). I feel panicstricken to be honest, I've no intention of going out more than I have been already (one a week). It feels much to soon against the number of deaths and I've lost all confidence.
> 
> View attachment 440536


 I am glad non essential retail can reopen in a couple of weeks time. From what I have been hearing people are now and out and about pretty much as before lockdown, I`m told town was `rammed` today. If people are going out they may as well be spending money in the shops! Obviously I hope all retail manages to keep their staff and customers safe.

Not sure how the schools reopening is going to work. My mums neighbour tells me one of her children can go back to school as he is in year one but the school day will finish as normal at 3pm, currently he goes to school as the child of a key worker and can stay until 6pm. If he goes into class One he cant go into the key worker class after 3pm as they will not be not allowed to mix. Normally the grandparents collect form school and babysit if she and her husband are on a later shift obviously this is not an option under the current roles, so she says she will be in a position where she would like him to go back top school proper but cant see how at the moment. I don't think anything was mentioned about mixing of households, a bubble type thing was muted in the last lot of new guidelines so maybe will get some more information on that later in the week, there will have to be some relaxing of allowing family and friends to mix and actually inside houses not just outdoors if children are going back to school and more parents are getting back to work.


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> I am glad non essential retail can reopen in a couple of weeks time. From what I have been hearing people are now and out and about pretty much as before lockdown, I`m told town was `rammed` today. If people are going out they may as well be spending money in the shops! Obviously I hope all retail manages to keep their staff and customers safe.
> 
> Not sure how the schools reopening is going to work. My mums neighbour tells me one of her children can go back to school as he is in year one but the school day will finish as normal at 3pm, currently he goes to school as the child of a key worker and can stay until 6pm. If he goes into class One he cant go into the key worker class after 3pm as they will not be not allowed to mix. Normally the grandparents collect form school and babysit if she and her husband are on a later shift obviously this is not an option under the current roles, so she says she will be in a position where she would like him to go back top school proper but cant see how at the moment. I don't think anything was mentioned about mixing of households, a bubble type thing was muted in the last lot of new guidelines so maybe will get some more information on that later in the week, there will have to be some relaxing of allowing family and friends to mix and actually inside houses not just outdoors if children are going back to school and more parents are getting back to work.


As the child been given notice of going back in year 1..have stated above key workers will be still be going to school kept together, kept together and taught appropriately as teachers do this anyway, working with child's abilities so can accomodate mixed ages especially of core subjects. So as far as I know key workers children stay in their own class together.. There are reportedly been low numbers per school and have been mixing.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lullabydream said:


> As the child been given notice of going back in year 1..have stated above key workers will be still be going to school kept together, kept together and taught appropriately as teachers do this anyway, working with child's abilities so can accomodate mixed ages especially of core subjects. So as far as I know key workers children stay in their own class together.. There are reportedly been low numbers per school and have been mixing.


 I think she was told on Friday by the headteacher the youngest could be go back to normal lessons from next week. His siblings will also still be attending school but in the key workers class, she was told this class will still be operating until 6pm but class one and six would end at 3pm and unfortunately the youngest would not be able to then join his siblings as they are not allowed to mix classes. From what she was telling me it sounds like she is going to keep him in the key workers class due to having no afterschool childcare although of course that situation maybe resolved by the time school is reopened. There are only a handful of children that attend keyworkers class, she said just 4 on some days which surprises me, the staff are on a rotor each doing either a morning or afternoon session, I know there has been a bit of muttering about who is doing more shifts and getting to pick and chose and one teacher not happy about it ( I know because she has told me herself) sounds like there might be a bit of a barney when they do all get back into the staff room!


----------



## purringcats

MollySmith said:


> I just wondered what everyone felt about this, in view of other news (political that we can't discuss here). I feel panicstricken to be honest, I've no intention of going out more than I have been already (one a week). It feels much to soon against the number of deaths and I've lost all confidence.
> 
> View attachment 440536


My local market never shut down, they just reduced the amount of stalls on it and done what they have done in the shops by putting bits of tape on the floor indicating a two metre gap. Will be interesting to see how the likes of Primemark and other stores how they maintain social distancing. I chose Primemark as an example because they are a very busy clothes store. Personally I am still in my 12 weeks lockdown but I will not be going out for a few weeks after the none essential stores reopen.

Some people I have noticed believe that the lockdown rules apply to everyone else but themselves (eg my next neighbour who is in for a shock as her housing officer contacted me last week as he is investigating complaints about her from around the neighborhood and has indicated her tenancy is at risk but he cannot take action until the government change the rules) during the whole of the lock down.

Edited as spell check put the wrong word in.


----------



## Magyarmum

purringcats said:


> My local market never shut down, they just reduced the amount of stalls on it and done what they have done in the shops by putting bits of tape on the floor indicating a two metre gap. Will be interesting to see how the likes of Primemark and other stores how they maintain social distancing. I chose Primemark as an example because they are a very busy clothes store. Personally I am still in my 12 weeks lockdown but I will not be going out for a few weeks after the none essential stores reopen.
> 
> Some people I have noticed believe that the lockdown rules apply to everyone else but themselves (eg my next neighbour who is in for a shock as her housing officer contacted me last week as he is investing complaints about her from around the neighborhood and has indicated her tenancy is at risk but he cannot take action until the government change the rules) during the whole of the lock down.


No open air markets were closed down in Hungary as far as I know, although local mayors did have the authority to do so so. It's compulsory to wear face masks and during the hours of 9 am to 12 noon, only people 65 years and older are allowed in shops, everyone else is turned away by the shop's security guard. OAP's have been told to remain at home except when they need to shop, but a major difference is that family are allowed to visit them without restriction.

As the incidence of new cases has fallen to 15 a day the restrictions are slowly being relaxed with the warning that if they start to peak again, another lock down will be declared.


----------



## Happy Paws2

As far as opening all shops, We will still carry on as I've been doing, staying at home unless we forgot something important from our Sanisbury's weekly delivery and once a month OH goes to the post office to pay the rent and council tax and I go with him, stay outside just to get some fresh air. Everything else we are buying on line.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I just wondered what everyone felt about this, in view of other news (political that we can't discuss here). I feel panicstricken to be honest, I've no intention of going out more than I have been already (one a week). It feels much to soon against the number of deaths and I've lost all confidence.
> 
> View attachment 440536


I think it's pretty sensible to be honest. Unless you work in one of these places and are being forced to come in, there is no pressure for anyone to attend them if they don't want to.

I know people working in education and they are working very hard to ensure the settings are safe. As I understand it, people are not being forced to send their children back as the non-attendance fines are currently being waived?

Things have got to start moving again, and the summer is the best time to do which when the virus isn't vying with other seasonal diseases.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> As far as opening all shops, We will still carry on as I've been doing, staying at home unless we forgot something important from our Sainsbury's weekly delivery


I think alot of people will be doing this. Its kinda annoying if you used to regularly get your shopping delivered and now cant:Shy! I mean I get it, obviously...just wish the supermarkets would employ more delivery people and packers as I really think that online grocery shopping is going to continue to be very popular.

I dont think that opening the shops is going to push the numbers back up though. Its mass gatherings like sporting events, concerts, etc that seem to create problems.
Not sure how big a risk schools are though. Its sounds like kids are actually poor vectors for this disease (which would make a change from kids being little germ factories!LOL).


----------



## Freyja

My daughter in law works at the local hospital but not on the corona wards. They were tested on Friday for the virus and have had their results today. They were delayed because of the bank holiday. She has tested positive for the virus so now my son and daughter in law are confined to their house for 14 days they have no shopping in and can't get a delivery slot for online shopping. We haven't seen them for a while but they are going to have to email me a shopping list and I will have to leave it in their garden for them to come out and get after I have gone.


----------



## polishrose

I think it's too early to send the kids back to school so mine won't be going until September (yr 5 and 6). I won't be going shopping either. I don't need anything from town.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Freyja said:


> My daughter in law works at the local hospital but not on the corona wards. They were tested on Friday for the virus and have had their results today. They were delayed because of the bank holiday. She has tested positive for the virus so now my son and daughter in law are confined to their house for 14 days they have no shopping in and can't get a delivery slot for online shopping. We haven't seen them for a while but they are going to have to email me a shopping list and I will have to leave it in their garden for them to come out and get after I have gone.


That's worrying all for you.

Did they actually have symptoms?

Hopefully, they won't be too badly affected by it.


----------



## Freyja

Lurcherlad said:


> That's worrying all for you.
> 
> Did they actually have symptoms?
> 
> Hopefully, they won't be too badly affected by it.


Yes Beth has slight symptoms she has a slight temperature and has today lost her taste and smell. My son hasn't been tested but he has been told although she only has to isolate for 7 days he has to isolate for 14 days. He can work from home and has been since the lockdown started but as Beth doesn't drive even after the 7 days are up she still wouldn't be able to do any shopping or even go to work unless she used a taxi so they are both isolating for 14 days.


----------



## SbanR

@polishrose does your dog always sleep like that? So cute


----------



## polishrose

SbanR said:


> @polishrose does your dog always sleep like that? So cute


haha no she was wriggling around and I managed to get that photo.


----------



## Boxer123

Just on the phone to my niece who is 3 next month not seen her since January she came on and said ‘ i miss you’.


----------



## SbanR

Boxer123 said:


> Just on the phone to my niece who is 3 next month not seen her since January she came on and said ' i miss you'.


Brought a lump to my throat


----------



## lullabydream

Boxer123 said:


> Just on the phone to my niece who is 3 next month not seen her since January she came on and said ' i miss you'.


Awww bless her.. It's awful isn't it not seeing them. Am missing my ickle nephew. Nice to get updates and plenty of smiley photos but not the quite same.


----------



## Boxer123

lullabydream said:


> Awww bless her.. It's awful isn't it not seeing them. Am missing my ickle nephew. Nice to get updates and plenty of smiley photos but not the quite same.


She's talking more now and has grown so much. She gave Loki kisses down the phone.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I think it's pretty sensible to be honest. Unless you work in one of these places and are being forced to come in, there is no pressure for anyone to attend them if they don't want to.
> 
> I know people working in education and they are working very hard to ensure the settings are safe. As I understand it, people are not being forced to send their children back as the non-attendance fines are currently being waived?
> 
> Things have got to start moving again, and the summer is the best time to do which when the virus isn't vying with other seasonal diseases.


Hmm, I wish I had your faith. I really distrust the methodology, which I don't think has been made public. I think many might but put into difficult situations because of desperate employers. And selfishly I guess I've really enjoyed the peace and seeing small signs of nature healing, easy to write as I am earning.


----------



## mrs phas

This popped up on my FB news feed


----------



## purringcats

Result on my neighbour situation. I dialled 101 and the person I spoke to said other people have been complaining and was keen to get me off the phone to get someone to attend my neighbours house as there was a gathering there tonight of more than 5 people all drinking alcohol as her child was running around the garden screaming. I know I said I was going to give up complaining but enough was enough tonight as it was really noisy.

I feel relieved I am not the only person complaining.


----------



## lorilu

Circles in the park..will it catch on everywhere? Not a bad idea.

https://sf.curbed.com/2020/5/22/21266247/san-francisco-parks-social-distancing-circles-coronavirus


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> Circles in the park..will it catch on everywhere? Not a bad idea.
> 
> https://sf.curbed.com/2020/5/22/21266247/san-francisco-parks-social-distancing-circles-coronavirus


A brilliant idea.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Our bungalow backs on to what was warden controlled flats with a small communal garden where some of the residents have been sitting out in the sun. This morning one of them has visitors with about five young children playing in the garden, surely this is breaking the rules as other people are using it at the same time.


----------



## Sacrechat

purringcats said:


> Result on my neighbour situation. I dialled 101 and the person I spoke to said other people have been complaining and was keen to get me off the phone to get someone to attend my neighbours house as there was a gathering there tonight of more than 5 people all drinking alcohol as her child was running around the garden screaming. I know I said I was going to give up complaining but enough was enough tonight as it was really noisy.
> 
> I feel relieved I am not the only person complaining.


It must be bad if several people are complaining.


----------



## lorilu

Our state has a regulation about face coverings in public. My employer has a regulation about face coverings in the building. No exceptions.

I am currently working from home 4 days and week and in office one day a week. I was very angered today to see a custodial worker, someone I don't recognize, working in the lobby today with no face mask. He was washing windows and sweeping and vacuuming, and making a very long job about all of it, but it was really ticking me off that he wasn't wearing a mask. I have to walk through that lobby numerous times during my working day, not to mention the rest of the building. Especially concerning if he is the one supposedly sanitizing our offices every morning, which I suspect he might me.

(In addition he had propped open all the fire doors because he obviously didn't want to be bothered punching in the codes each time he had to go through a door. All the fire doors are marked as "fire door: must be kept close at all times, by order of the fire department").

I closed all the fire doors, and then sent an e mail to my supervisor about the lack of face mask. I am not his boss and it isn't my place to to instruct him of the rules, they have been made very clear to all of us. But it was making me very angry. I don't care what his beliefs are about the pandemic, he needs to follow the rules. My boss said she would contact his boos. I did hear his cell phone ring as he was walking down the hall, and did not see him in my office vicinity again. Incidentally he also left a vacuum cleaner in the hall parked right outside my office door. As I came out of my door to go into the mail room I tripped over it and crashed into the wall.

I mentioned this to my boss as well. Perhaps no one has trained him properly, regarding equipment safety and fire regulations, ( that does seem to be a problem with the custodians hired by my company) but the mask requirement is not something that could be missed. It's plastered on every outside door, in every office, and we get reminder e mails about it at least once a week.

We are provided with masks, or we may use our own.

When I got home this afternoon I found an email from my local "news alert" that my state's governor has now authorized business owners to refuse admittance into any store or other business to someone not wearing a face covering. I was glad to see this.

Next week I will be going into the office twice a week, and on June 15th I will be back to full time in the office, so we are being told now. If I have to be the mask police at work I will be. I do not want to be put at risk by some idiot who thinks it's a "hoax" or simply doesn't like wearing a mask. In my life it's just me and my cats. They need me. That is what matters to me.


----------



## purringcats

How do people get away with it?

Last night the police turned up (more than 24 hours after all the reports they received from various people) and the officers got met by a house full of people (people had been turning up all day) as the neighbour was having a party. 10 minutes later the police officers left, no one left my neighbours house. So how did my neighbour get away with this? There was more than 7 people in my neighbours house that do not live there (I know this because there was seven at one point in her garden all drinking alcohol and they all went into my neighbours house).

I feel at the moment the lockdown rules apply to everyone else but my neighbour.


----------



## purringcats

Sacremist said:


> It must be bad if several people are complaining.


The neighbour has had people coming and going to her house ongoing since the lockdown started. I am not talking one person at a time I am talking 4 and more. The neighbour is blatant about it as well.


----------



## MilleD

It looks like Scotland, Wales and NI are moving more in line with England now with regards the restrictions.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Easing the lockdown down worry's me, just read this on the BBC home pages.

*Summary*

More than 200 schools across South Korea are forced to return to online teaching just days after being allowed back in classrooms
Most of the affected schools are in an area outside of Seoul which has seen a fresh outbreak of the virus
On Thursday South Korea reported 79 new cases within 24 hours - its highest number in two months
Japan has seen a new cluster of infections emerge in the south-west, just days after the PM lifted the state of emergency
Brazil reported a daily record of 26,417 new coronavirus cases on Thursday
Moscow more than doubled the official death toll from Covid-19 for the month of April
There are more than 5.8m cases


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Easing the lockdown down worry's me, just read this on the BBC home pages.
> 
> *Summary*
> 
> More than 200 schools across South Korea are forced to return to online teaching just days after being allowed back in classrooms
> Most of the affected schools are in an area outside of Seoul which has seen a fresh outbreak of the virus
> On Thursday South Korea reported 79 new cases within 24 hours - its highest number in two months
> Japan has seen a new cluster of infections emerge in the south-west, just days after the PM lifted the state of emergency
> Brazil reported a daily record of 26,417 new coronavirus cases on Thursday
> Moscow more than doubled the official death toll from Covid-19 for the month of April
> There are more than 5.8m cases


This will happen as soon as people are allowed to mix more. It will go in waves. The issue is whether the healthcare systems can cope with the result of relaxation. If not, the restrictions will be increased again.

And in fairness, Brazil isn't a good example considering how they have been dealing with the virus.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> This will happen as soon as people are allowed to mix more. It will go in waves. The issue is whether the healthcare systems can cope with the result of relaxation. If not, the restrictions will be increased again.
> 
> *And in fairness, Brazil isn't a good example considering how they have been dealing with the virus*.


I know... I just copied it before I noticed Brazil.


----------



## Jaf

Spain has a rule about wearing a mask where social distancing is not possible. Exemptions for sport, eating and medical reasons. Trouble is everyone seems to have taken the rule to mean masks must be worn everywhere. 

I’m getting a bit panicky as I need to go to the supermarket next week. I can’t wear a mask. Do I wear my thin scarf or risk being refused entrance. 

Most people don’t wear them properly anyway and I’m not convinced the homemade masks do anything.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Easing the lockdown down worry's me, just read this on the BBC home pages.
> 
> *Summary*
> 
> More than 200 schools across South Korea are forced to return to online teaching just days after being allowed back in classrooms
> Most of the affected schools are in an area outside of Seoul which has seen a fresh outbreak of the virus
> On Thursday South Korea reported 79 new cases within 24 hours - its highest number in two months
> Japan has seen a new cluster of infections emerge in the south-west, just days after the PM lifted the state of emergency
> Brazil reported a daily record of 26,417 new coronavirus cases on Thursday
> Moscow more than doubled the official death toll from Covid-19 for the month of April
> There are more than 5.8m cases


All we can do as individuals is limit our interactions and outings in order to safeguard ourselves from inevitable cavalier attitudes and any consequential peak that may arise.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> Spain has a rule about wearing a mask where social distancing is not possible. Exemptions for sport, eating and medical reasons. Trouble is everyone seems to have taken the rule to mean masks must be worn everywhere.
> 
> I'm getting a bit panicky as I need to go to the supermarket next week. I can't wear a mask. Do I wear my thin scarf or risk being refused entrance.
> 
> Most people don't wear them properly anyway and I'm not convinced the homemade masks do anything.


In Hungary, wearing masks in shops and on public transport is compulsory and you can be denied entry if you're not wearing one.

When I drove into the city last Tuesday, I noticed that generally speaking,people who were out walking weren't wearing masks, but anyone who was close to, or going in or out of a shop was. Both our trainer and I wore a mask because whilst training the Schnauzer boys it was sometimes difficult to maintain a socially acceptable distance from each other.

I find wearing a mask uncomfortable and positively dangerous when walking the dogs because my two are quite small and unless they're walking in front of me I can't see them because the mask rides up on my face and blocks my sight.when I look down. Nevertheless experts like Dr Fauci have emphasised that wearing a mask or some form of covering over the mouth and nose whilst not 100% effective, does afford a degree of protection for oneself and others. so I'll continue wearing one when in public places. I'd rather have the discomfort of a mask than that of being intubated!


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> This will happen as soon as people are allowed to mix more. It will go in waves. The issue is whether the healthcare systems can cope with the result of relaxation. If not, the restrictions will be increased again.


Thats what I understood as well. It seems like certain areas are experiencing their peaks at different times too, with some regions experiencing lots of hospital admissions and others getting over the worst of it. I know my area has mostly gotten over our peak for now.
Honestly I think herd immunity is the way to go now. No telling when or if there will be a vaccine and keeping the country closed indefinately isnt an option...so whilst it sounds callous letting us catch this virus in small groups to develop immunity might be the solution. (although Im all for the social distancing and protective measures in shops, etc to keep outbreaks manageable).


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> All we can do as individuals is limit our interactions and outings in order to safeguard ourselves from inevitable cavalier attitudes and any consequential peak that may arise.


But will everyone do that. We have been out in the garden this afternoon and some up the road is having a BBQ and a party by the sound of it.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> But will everyone do that. We have been out in the garden this afternoon and some up the road is having a BBQ and a party by the sound of it.


So?
friday or Monday
dont see how 3 days is going to make any difference to how the second wave/herd immunity progresses 
as soon as kids go back, these are the largest year groups to spread ANY type of bug, virus or not
it is going to happen
whatever we do
it, allegedly, seems that BJ didnt make it from when he announced it yesterday is that the weatherman says its going to be a great weekend, and he didnt want too many, to mix, too soon
wont stop the sheeple who have had the 'cant touch me' attitude all along


----------



## Jaf

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary, wearing masks in shops and on public transport is compulsory and you can be denied entry if you're not wearing one.
> 
> When I drove into the city last Tuesday, I noticed that generally speaking,people who were out walking weren't wearing masks, but anyone who was close to, or going in or out of a shop was. Both our trainer and I wore a mask because whilst training the Schnauzer boys it was sometimes difficult to maintain a socially acceptable distance from each other.
> 
> I find wearing a mask uncomfortable and positively dangerous when walking the dogs because my two are quite small and unless they're walking in front of me I can't see them because the mask rides up on my face and blocks my sight.when I look down. Nevertheless experts like Dr Fauci have emphasised that wearing a mask or some form of covering over the mouth and nose whilst not 100% effective, does afford a degree of protection for oneself and others. so I'll continue wearing one when in public places. I'd rather have the discomfort of a mask than that of being intubated!


What I've read is that masks not used properly can actually be hazardous. Round here people are ever lasting touching them and/or wearing them round their chins!

If I could wear a mask I would, since it's law here.


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> *So?*


Because it sounded like there were about twenty people there by the noise they were making.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> But will everyone do that. We have been out in the garden this afternoon and some up the road is having a BBQ and a party by the sound of it.


No they won't, which is why I'm going to be self isolating for a good while yet so their actions won't impact on me or my loved ones.

Let them be the "herd" as far as I'm concerned


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Because it sounded like there were about twenty people there by the noise they were making.


please dont quote me out of context, especially picking on one word
its really not the done thing


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> as soon as kids go back, these are the largest year groups to spread ANY type of bug, virus or not


Not in this case by all accounts.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> No they won't, which is why I'm going to be self isolating for a good while yet so their actions won't impact on me or my loved ones.
> 
> Let them be the "herd" as far as I'm concerned


im with you on this
i wouldve been much happier with the children not going back and mixing until september, social distancing, between households includng gardens, still in place and non essential travel still discouraged
as for this app thingy, well the longer i dont see/meet anyone, the less chance of big brother contacting and tracing me


----------



## catz4m8z

Lurcherlad said:


> No they won't, which is why I'm going to be self isolating for a good while yet so their actions won't impact on me or my loved ones.
> 
> Let them be the "herd" as far as I'm concerned


Thats actually a good idea TBH! Generally the types of idiots ignoring lockdown tend to be younger, fitter people who think 'it wont happen to me'. Chances are that it wont happen to them as they are more likely to get a mild case or show no symptoms! So if they all get a mild case of covid then we have our herd immunity without risking more vulnerable people.


----------



## lullabydream

Has anyone gone to any local school website to read school letters to read clear facts how schools are managing schools opening?

In my area they can barely accommodate Reception and Year 1 especially if a school is old, and not modern to follow government guidelines. Children may be going back in these age groups, but in some schools not all. 

I had been hearing the same from teacher friends how they couldn't accommodate them. Then my friend forward me a school letter she received today via email so I had a look. So had a nosey.. Some websites have parents pages where there is easy access to school news letter.. 
I don't know how many classrooms, teachers etc they think these schools have to accommodate. 

I know children need to be at school, people need to go back to work and it's way too late leaving it till September if, this Covid-19 is going to hit a second peak and hit when influenza is rife, winter vomiting strikes and has the potential to close parts of hospitals. 

It's one almighty mess, and the faith in what we should and shouldn't do, really is being lost by many now.


----------



## O2.0

WHO has updated their recommendations on masks:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
Clear as mud huh?


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> WHO has updated their recommendations on masks:
> https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
> 
> If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
> Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
> Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
> If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
> Clear as mud huh?


Seems pretty straightforwards to me...

I'm healthy, so I don't _need _a mask as I'm not looking after anyone with C-19 and I'm not coughing or sneezing.

If I did need to wear one or chose to wear one, then I need to be even more vigilent than normal about hand cleaning, and also very careful that I know how to safely use, remove and dispose of the mask, as removal and disposal are the most likely times for self contamination.

They've even got handy picture guides and videos


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> Thats what I understood as well. It seems like certain areas are experiencing their peaks at different times too, with some regions experiencing lots of hospital admissions and others getting over the worst of it. I know my area has mostly gotten over our peak for now.
> Honestly I think herd immunity is the way to go now. No telling when or if there will be a vaccine and keeping the country closed indefinately isnt an option...so whilst it sounds callous letting us catch this virus in small groups to develop immunity might be the solution. (although Im all for the social distancing and protective measures in shops, etc to keep outbreaks manageable).


From what I've read I think we're going to have to wait a very long time before herd immunity takes effect. Even the Swedes are beginning to wonder if their response to the virus was the right one.

https://theconversation.com/herd-immunity-in-europe-are-we-close-139253

*Herd immunity in Europe - are we close?*

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/25/8619...ity-in-may-sweden-s-chief-epidemiologist-says

*Stockholm Won't Reach Herd Immunity In May, Sweden's Chief Epidemiologist Says*


----------



## Gemmaa

O2.0 said:


> WHO has updated their recommendations on masks:
> https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
> 
> If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
> Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
> Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
> If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
> Clear as mud huh?


I could also be asymptomatic, so probably should wear a mask regardless.

I'm going to keep wearing my washable mask with a filter, when shopping. I'm looking at countries where mask wearing is high, and they're doing better than us.
Might have nothing to do with it, but I'm staying alert


----------



## Happy Paws2

This could cause problems in India

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/monkeys-attack-lab-assistant-in-india-snatch-covid-19-samples


----------



## MollySmith

Please stay safe and well as you can. We're not changing anything - still isolating - though I can't help think that being in a city with retail opening from 15th makes us more at risk than during the lockdown. Scientists seem to agree
https://trib.al/InBasLz


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> im with you on this
> i wouldve been much happier with the children not going back and mixing until september, social distancing, between households includng gardens, still in place and non essential travel still discouraged
> as for this app thingy, well the longer i dont see/meet anyone, the less chance of big brother contacting and tracing me


me too.

I think herd immunity is dangerous - no offence to those who think it might be the way forward - and my reasons are purely down to it being promoted by the government in whom I have no trust whatsoever and I don't understand enough about their science (what little we know of what they're telling us).

My concern is that playgrounds and equipment are closed still but they are being used. Parents have ripped off the tape and yesterday the space where I walk Molly was stuffed with kids and parents from different households all packed in. The police were there but didn't stop them, never left the car. I tweeted the council to check I hadn't misunderstood the rules and they confirmed nobody should be using them so why did the police let them. Several people were saying glad it's over - I took a very wide walk around them all and feel very unsafe. If small actions like playgrounds aren't dealt with then, what is considered inappropriate? I've been hugely supportive of our local police but I very confused as to why this was allowed.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Seems pretty straightforwards to me...
> 
> I'm healthy, so I don't _need _a mask as I'm not looking after anyone with C-19 and I'm not coughing or sneezing.
> 
> If I did need to wear one or chose to wear one, then I need to be even more vigilent than normal about hand cleaning, and also very careful that I know how to safely use, remove and dispose of the mask, as removal and disposal are the most likely times for self contamination.
> 
> They've even got handy picture guides and videos


Our "rules and regulations" concerning the lifting of restrictions has been pretty specific as you'll see from the directive issued by the US Embassy in Hungary.

https://hu.usembassy.gov/covid-19/

*COVID-19 Information (updated daily)*

An interesting article explaining why Hungary fared better than other European countries.

*https://www.origo.hu/itthon/20200527-koronavirus-tajkep-csata-utan.html?fbclid=IwAR1dhF2zISEeK6RZUugf2Talqla5sarATC63cl_dlV72Em5yg9Ze14uPtT0*

*Why was the defense by orders of magnitude more successful in Hungary than in Italy, Spain or France?*


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Please stay safe and well as you can. We're not changing anything - still isolating - though I can't help think that being in a city with retail opening from 15th makes us more at risk than during the lockdown. Scientists seem to agree
> https://trib.al/InBasLz


Of course it will be more of a risk than lockdown.

But this has to happen. We can't shut the country down forever and the government can't pay 8 million people's wages forever.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Seems pretty straightforwards to me...
> 
> I'm healthy, so I don't _need _a mask as I'm not looking after anyone with C-19 and I'm not coughing or sneezing.
> 
> If I did need to wear one or chose to wear one, then I need to be even more vigilent than normal about hand cleaning, and also very careful that I know how to safely use, remove and dispose of the mask, as removal and disposal are the most likely times for self contamination.
> 
> They've even got handy picture guides and videos


When put against the CDC's recommendations and local ordinances, no, it's not as clear. One organization is saying you don't need a mask if you're well, the other organization is saying everyone should be wearing a mask.

People end up throwing their hands up in the air and going about business as usual. Add in that some parts of the US are still not really 'seeing' covid-19. 
In our little spread-out community of 8500 people, a grand total of 4 people have been diagnosed with Covid-19. All 4 work at the same small business, they contained it, and that's it. This was back in late March. We haven't seen any cases since. How do you convince people to wear masks, wash hands, social distance, etc. when they don't see anything bad happening in person, and the main players don't seem to agree on basics like if folks should wear a mask or not?


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> When put against the CDC's recommendations and local ordinances, no, it's not as clear. One organization is saying you don't need a mask if you're well, the other organization is saying everyone should be wearing a mask.
> 
> People end up throwing their hands up in the air and going about business as usual. Add in that some parts of the US are still not really 'seeing' covid-19.
> In our little spread-out community of 8500 people, a grand total of 4 people have been diagnosed with Covid-19. All 4 work at the same small business, they contained it, and that's it. This was back in late March. We haven't seen any cases since. How do you convince people to wear masks, wash hands, social distance, etc. when they don't see anything bad happening in person, and the main players don't seem to agree on basics like if folks should wear a mask or not?


You could say the same for where I live!.

In my county which is 4500 sq miles in size with a population of 642 500 people we've had 65 cases, including one in my local town all in Mid March. Friends who live and work in the county's city also have only heard of one case there.

Perhaps though, because we have been kept fully informed and given specific instructions about when and where to wear masks, the majority of people find no problem about doing what the government has asked them to do.


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps though, because we have been kept fully informed and given specific instructions


That's the difference


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Of course it will be more of a risk than lockdown.
> 
> But this has to happen. We can't shut the country down forever and the government can't pay 8 million people's wages forever.


I'm sure we've had this conversation before, or at least with someone on here but it would have been a lot safer had we had an effective lockdown in the first place and quarantined at airports - yes, still banging on about that, I find it astonishing. No we can't do this forever but the strategy is hopelessly flawed and there's nothing anyone can do about what has passed.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> That's the difference


I posted this a little earlier This is the Covid-19 information page from the US Embassy in Hungary which give you some idea of the level of detail the government has gone to.

Totally different from the UK and US.

https://hu.usembassy.gov/covid-19/


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> Not in this case by all accounts.


Yeah I thought kids are low risk at passing on CV, cant see why more year groups cant go back that's going to be the key to getting more people back to work. Have they said its ok for children to go inside other households? I know groups of six people can met in the garden and come in to use the toilet but don't know if they said it was ok for children to be in the house or not, makes sense to allow them so parents that rely on family and friends for childcare can get back to work or start to work their normal hours again.


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> Yeah I thought kids are low risk at passing on CV, cant see why more year groups cant go back that's going to be the key to getting more people back to work. Have they said its ok for children to go inside other households? I know groups of six people can met in the garden and come in to use the toilet but don't know if they said it was ok for children to be in the house or not, makes sense to allow them so parents that rely on family and friends for childcare can get back to work or start to work their normal hours again.


More year groups can't go back because schools haven't got an infinite number of classrooms or teachers to allow for the bubbles for social distance.


----------



## Siskin

In case anyone is confused about the lockdown timetable


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> In case anyone is confused about the lockdown timetable
> 
> View attachment 440884


OH asked why I was giggling!


----------



## Jesthar

Well, this is interesting. Apparently the govenment has been 'sponsoring' feelgood/Government praising Covid-19 articles (not adverts, articles) in national newspapers:




















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265775710586712067
Seems to be primarily the Daily Fail, but also The Sun, and other papers have been running adverts from the 'in it together' campaign - which isn't as clearly marked as sponsored by the government as it just references the 'All in all together' campaign.

Not sure I'm that happy about the government using taxpayers money to buy positive press coverage...


----------



## shadowmare

Yes, Matt. I think I can hear the joyful cheers coming from the nation... oh wait, it seems like maybe those cheers are not enough to cover up the sound of weeping families who lost their loved ones.


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> Well, this is interesting. Apparently the govenment has been 'sponsoring' feelgood/Government praising Covid-19 articles (not adverts, articles) in national newspapers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265775710586712067
> Seems to be primarily the Daily Fail, but also The Sun, and other papers have been running adverts from the 'in it together' campaign - which isn't as clearly marked as sponsored by the government as it just references the 'All in all together' campaign.
> 
> Not sure I'm that happy about the government using taxpayers money to buy positive press coverage...


Jesus. Nope I'm sure that's a breach of moral codes and ethics.


----------



## MollySmith

shadowmare said:


> View attachment 440938
> 
> 
> Yes, Matt. I think I can hear the joyful cheers coming from the nation... oh wait, it seems like maybe those cheers are not enough to cover up the sound of weeping families who lost their loved ones.





shadowmare said:


> View attachment 440938
> 
> 
> Yes, Matt. I think I can hear the joyful cheers coming from the nation... oh wait, it seems like maybe those cheers are not enough to cover up the sound of weeping families who lost their loved ones.


He is the MP for Newmarket


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Well, this is interesting. Apparently the govenment has been 'sponsoring' feelgood/Government praising Covid-19 articles (not adverts, articles) in national newspapers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265775710586712067
> Seems to be primarily the Daily Fail, but also The Sun, and other papers have been running adverts from the 'in it together' campaign - which isn't as clearly marked as sponsored by the government as it just references the 'All in all together' campaign.
> 
> Not sure I'm that happy about the government using taxpayers money to buy positive press coverage...


I dunno, something needs to be done to counteract the press negativity


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> In case anyone is confused about the lockdown timetable
> 
> View attachment 440884


The last one sounds about right


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> I dunno, something needs to be done to counteract the press negativity


And your positive spin would be?


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> Well, this is interesting. Apparently the government has been 'sponsoring' feelgood/Government praising Covid-19 articles (not adverts, articles) in national newspapers:


huh...TBH the one thing I think the government have done a decent job on is helping businesses and families stay afloat. Cant be easy trying to balance the books at the moment. (well, that and how great the NHS have coped with it all).
Id love to see them try to put a positive spin on their test and trace record though....the UK have really screwed the pooch on that one.


----------



## kimthecat

Sickening to see the parks filled with rubbish after people's picnics , beer bottles , laughing gas canister.  There enough bins and they cant be bothered to walk a few yards to put their rubbish in there. We've picked up beer bottles ( with gloves ) and put them in bins so they dont get broken and the dogs cut their feet.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Another person telling me today that if some of us locals carry on picking up the litter, then the "yoof" will never change their ways! 

I think I managed to convince her to my way of thinking and she even filled up a couple of empty carrier bags lying next to the rubbish at her feet (that she was moaning about) and carried them to the bin on her way out!


----------



## purringcats

The police showed up at my neighbours this morning and cautioned her for having people constantly going to and fro from hers, holding parties fly tipping etc. She has been told she is breaking the law and they have had loads of complaints. At last something is being done.

Even though this has happened 3 people are currently around at hers even though they do not live there. The law does not change until tomorrow.


----------



## rona




----------



## Cully

purringcats said:


> The police showed up at my neighbours this morning and cautioned her for having people constantly going to and fro from hers, holding parties fly tipping etc. She has been told she is breaking the law and they have had loads of complaints. At last something is being done.
> 
> Even though this has happened 3 people are currently around at hers even though they do not live there. The law does not change until tomorrow.


From what you say about the sort of people they are I don't think they will give a toss about waiting a little longer to make it legal!!


----------



## purringcats

Trying to get my head around the new lockdown rules tomorrow.

Am I hearing correctly that those that have been self isolating because they are vulnerable and they received a letter from the government to spend 12 weeks self isolating are allowed out with someone from the same household or someone from another household. How long are you allowed to go out for? Are we still ment to rely on others to deliver shopping, medicines etc?

Also households will be able to meet in groups of 6 people only in parks and in gardens as long as they remain 2 metres apart?

Surely the vulnerable will be left behind and forgotten about as people return back to work and the services we are currently getting disappear from those brave volunteers who have been helping out.


----------



## kimthecat

purringcats said:


> Trying to get my head around the new lockdown rules tomorrow.
> 
> Am I hearing correctly that those that have been self isolating because they area vulnerable and they received a letter from the government to spend 12 weeks self isolating are allowed out with someone from the same household or someone from another household. How long are you allowed to go out for? Are we still ment to rely on others to deliver shopping, medicines etc?
> 
> Also households will be able to meet in groups of 6 people only in parks and in gardens as long as they remain 2 metres apart?
> 
> Surely the vulnerable will be left behind and forgotten about as people return back to work and the services we are currently getting disappear from those brave volunteers who have been helping out.


Apparently , some vulnerable people received a text from the Government but their doctors werent consulted. .I dont know why. Ive not received one myself and a couple of other people I know havent either.

The two metre rule still applies.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Apparently , some vulnerable people received a text from the Government but their doctors werent consulted. .I dont know why. Ive not received one myself and a couple of other people I know havent either.
> 
> The two metre rule still applies.


I havent either


----------



## purringcats

kimthecat said:


> Apparently , some vulnerable people received a text from the Government but their doctors werent consulted. .I dont know why. Ive not received one myself and a couple of other people I know havent either.
> 
> The two metre rule still applies.


Sorry to hear that.

I was contacted by my GP and then the local council and then received a letter from the Government.

There is a form to fill in on the .gov website to let them know you are vulnerable. This form has been reworded since I filled it in:-

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable

Here is some advice on shielding:-

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron.../if-youre-at-very-high-risk-from-coronavirus/

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Apparently , some vulnerable people received a text from the Government but their doctors werent consulted. .I dont know why. Ive not received one myself and a couple of other people I know havent either.
> 
> The two metre rule still applies.


neither have I or Matt


----------



## kimthecat

purringcats said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> I was contacted by my GP and thenethen local council and then received a letter from the Government.
> 
> There was a form to fill on on the .gov website to let them know you are vulnerable. This form has been reworded since I filled it in:-
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable
> 
> Here is some advice on shielding:-
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron.../if-youre-at-very-high-risk-from-coronavirus/
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19


Oh Sorry , I meant we didnt receive the texts saying we could go out. We got letters and I was very lucky that I was given a regular grocery slot delivery .


----------



## purringcats

kimthecat said:


> Oh Sorry , *I* *meant we didnt receive the texts saying we could go out.* We got letters and I was very lucky that I was given a regular grocery slot delivery .


I haven't. It's just been on the news on the daily briefing today.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I havent either





mrs phas said:


> neither have I or Matt


Do you mean the letters saying stay in or the sms texts saying you can go out. I didnt make it clear what I meant in my post to purringcats


----------



## kimthecat

purringcats said:


> I haven't. It's just been on the news on the daily briefing today.


Oh I forgot to watch it.! I know it has been discussed on the news in the past couple of days and spokespersons from different vulnerable groups arent very concerned.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Do you mean the letters saying stay in or the sms texts saying you can go out. I didnt make it clear what I meant in my post to purringcats


the letters/texts saying we can go out
ive got used to being n now, and am realising without dashing round doing things for others, i have more time to actually do the things I enjoy like sewing, baking and painting
and im saving money
so ill probably still stay in when I can go out anyway


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Do you mean the letters saying stay in or the sms texts saying you can go out. I didnt make it clear what I meant in my post to purringcats


That I could go out. Not that I will


----------



## Cully

From watching news items etc I get the impression a lot of people who will be able to go out tomorrow are feeling anxious about it and who can blame them. After isolating for such a long time I am reluctant to waste all that effort and what I put myself through to jeopardise it. I know that I will have to pluck up the courage to go out eventually but prefer to do it in my own time and at my own pace.
I'm also concerned about the normal run of the mill bugs that are usually spreading minor illnesses at this time of year. Having been isolating I haven't been exposed to them so may have no immunity. Any illness of this kind can leave your immune system low and I'm reluctant to risk it.
Call me over cautious if you like.


----------



## purringcats

I'll be honest it frightens me that they maybe lifting the lockdown to quickly and in a few weeks we will be back in lockdown again. I will be continuing my self isolating as my 12 weeks is not finished yet and I am not comfortable going out yet.


----------



## kimthecat

The beaches have been packed with people and traffic jams at beauty spots ! Its such a shame we are having this hot weather. 

DD has not been asked to go back to school yet. She has ME and she expressed her concerns and said she didn't want to come back until the R rate is closer to 0. They said they wanted to get a doctors opinion but her doctor didnt want to get involved. They have enough staff to cover at school at the moment. She has been tutoring her pupils on line since schools were closed.


----------



## kimthecat

What about vets ? Are they open for boosters etc. Pips was due in April.


----------



## Cully

It does feel a bit like they locked us away so they didn't need to be responsible for us, and now they are opening the doors and throwing us to the lions.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Going out isn’t mandatory.

We won’t be rushing out and will decide for ourselves when and where it’s safe to do so.


----------



## Jesthar

Looks like Spain have scotched the hopes of Brits thinking they might get their summer hols over there, backtracking on previous positive noises because our coronavirus situation has not improved.

And MPs are in uproar as Jacob Rees Mogg wants to end remote voting, meaning MPs that live outside of London would have to break a number of lockdown rules in order to be able to vote. And those who are self isolating or shielding would not be able to vote at all. (Note to all, I'm not tryng to invite political debate here, just convey pertinant news about the governing of this crisis. Please take it in the spirit intended!)


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think too many people are too stupid to be given any freedom from lockdown tbh .....

*Durdle Door: Tombstoning continues despite three seriously hurt*








Emergency crews were called to Durdle Door at about 16:00 BST on Saturday
Tombstoning has continued on Dorset's Jurassic Coast less than 24 hours after three people were seriously hurt jumping 70ft (21m) from a cliff.

The casualties were taken to hospital after jumping from Durdle Door at about 16:00 BST on Saturday.

The coastguard and police have warned against leaping from the "dangerous" 200ft (60m) landmark arch into the sea.

However, despite warnings and advice to stay away, police said on Sunday some "still saw fit" to attempt it.

Dorset Council had closed the roads around the scene for safety reasons but hundreds of people still travelled to the area, police said.

--

See how the crowds were all crushed together on the beach to allow the helicopter to land and then all be directed off the beach - social distancing my arse! :Banghead


----------



## Rafa

Cully said:


> It does feel a bit like they locked us away so they didn't need to be responsible for us, and now they are opening the doors and throwing us to the lions.


Just to be clear.

As from tomorrow, those classed as vulnerable have the choice to go outside, should they so wish.

Nobody has said they have to go outside.

Being "thrown to the lions" is rather dramatic.


----------



## Jobeth

kimthecat said:


> DD has not been asked to go back to school yet. She has ME and she expressed her concerns and said she didn't want to come back until the R rate is closer to 0. They said they wanted to get a doctors opinion but her doctor didnt want to get involved. They have enough staff to cover at school at the moment. She has been tutoring her pupils on line since schools were closed.


If the situation changes then she could ask to be referred to occupational health as they will offer advice to school.


----------



## kimthecat

Jobeth said:


> If the situation changes then she could ask to be referred to occupational health as they will offer advice to school.


Thank you , I will pass that info onto her.


----------



## karenmc

Siskin said:


> In case anyone is confused about the lockdown timetable
> 
> View attachment 440884


What I would give for my son's barber to be open!! He is trusting .e to cut his hair tomorrow as it is crazy!! Funny thing is, my mum is a hairdresser but obvs not going to her for a cut as being safe!!


----------



## karenmc

I mean, being safe in protecting my mum.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Rafa said:


> Just to be clear.
> 
> *As from tomorrow, those classed as vulnerable have the choice to go outside, should they so wish.*
> 
> Nobody has said they have to go outside.
> 
> Being "thrown to the lions" is rather dramatic.


I thought they said it was the people who were *shielding*, they were saying could go out.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought they said it was the people who were *shielding*, they were saying could go out.


I thought it was the same thing.


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought they said it was the people who were *shielding*, they were saying could go out.


me too. My sister in law is allowed even though her original letter said end of June. She has decided to stay inside.


----------



## rona

Covid shows it could also be a Blood vessel disease

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-analysis-covid-autopsies-reveals-disease.html

COVID-19 was initially conceptualized as a primarily respiratory illness, but the Mount Sinai analysis laid out in detail that it also causes damage to the thin layer of cells that line blood vessels (endothelium), which underlies the clotting abnormalities and hypoxia observed in severely ill patients who develop multi-organ failure that leads to death in some patients.

"The physical evidence we ascertained through our postmortem analyses helps elucidate the mechanisms behind some of the clinical symptoms observed by physicians treating COVID-19 patients, including thromboembolisms and neuropsychiatric disorders," says Clare Bryce, MBChB, Associate Professor of Pathology, Molecular and Cell Based Medicine, and, first author of the study.

The lungs in nearly all cases showed diffuse damage to the alveoli, the small sacs where oxygen and carbon dioxide are exchanged with the blood. This damage is the typical microscopic evidence of clinical acute respiratory distress syndrome


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> I thought it was the same thing.


I thought Vulnerable was people over 70 and Shielding was for people who have health problems what ever their age.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Covid shows it could also be a Blood vessel disease
> 
> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-analysis-covid-autopsies-reveals-disease.html
> 
> COVID-19 was initially conceptualized as a primarily respiratory illness, but the Mount Sinai analysis laid out in detail that it also causes damage to the thin layer of cells that line blood vessels (endothelium), which underlies the clotting abnormalities and hypoxia observed in severely ill patients who develop multi-organ failure that leads to death in some patients.
> 
> "The physical evidence we ascertained through our postmortem analyses helps elucidate the mechanisms behind some of the clinical symptoms observed by physicians treating COVID-19 patients, including thromboembolisms and neuropsychiatric disorders," says Clare Bryce, MBChB, Associate Professor of Pathology, Molecular and Cell Based Medicine, and, first author of the study.
> 
> The lungs in nearly all cases showed diffuse damage to the alveoli, the small sacs where oxygen and carbon dioxide are exchanged with the blood. This damage is the typical microscopic evidence of clinical acute respiratory distress syndrome


I was reading that too. I wonder if that might extend the demographic of people who should/should've been shielding?I have been a 'level 2' so one down from shielding but have health problems that are related to this.

_edit - for clarity I mean medium risk _


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> I was reading that too. I wonder if that might extend the demographic of people who should/should've been shielding?


I dont think it would make a difference TBH. Its primarily an airborne/droplet infection affecting the lungs. The cases they are talking about are those who are severely affected and then go on to develop other complications like blood clots and organ failure.


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> I dont think it would make a difference TBH. Its primarily an airborne/droplet infection affecting the lungs. The cases they are talking about are those who are severely affected and then go on to develop other complications like blood clots and organ failure.


Particularly worrying then for OH who whilst on chemo developed a clot on the lung which will take months to recover from 

He's on blood thinners now so maybe that will actually be an extra help if he caught the virus?

Definitely not rushing out to mingle!


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Particularly worrying then for OH who whilst on chemo developed a clot on the lung which will take months to recover from
> 
> He's on blood thinners now so maybe that will actually be an extra help if he caught the virus?
> 
> Definitely not rushing out to mingle!


Nor for Matt, whose been left with three from picc line failures

Has anyone had a phone call saying theyre from government shielding helpline?

edit due to not recognising the difference between there, their and theyre:Banghead


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> Not for Matt, whose been left with three from picc line failures
> 
> Has anyone had a phone call saying their from government shielding helpline?


I did a couple of weeks back.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> I was reading that too. I wonder if that might extend the demographic of people who should/should've been shielding?I have been a 'level 2' so one down from shielding but have health problems that are related to this.


My son who's in his 50's and a type 1 diabetic, has only just come back to shore after spending the past 12 weeks on their yacht moored out in the middle of the Helford Estuary where they didn't see a soul. Since being back he's only going to his workshop where during the week he's unlikely to see anyone else. My DIL who could go back to work if she wanted to, has chosen to remain at home and only goes out if it's absolutely necessary.

Here in Hungary yesterday we only had 9 new cases and 15 today but even so the government is telling anyone over 65 not to leave their home unless it's unavoidable. There has been 527 deaths the majority of which have been amongst the elderly who have underlying medical condition. The list of deaths with age, sex and any underlying medical condition is published daily and it follows the same trend as in the UK with diabetes accounting for a great number of deaths.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ed-in-uk-hospitals-with-covid-19-had-diabetes

*Quarter of Covid-19 deaths in English hospitals were of diabetics*

.


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> Covid shows it could also be a Blood vessel disease


I saw that too, very interesting.



Lurcherlad said:


> He's on blood thinners now so maybe that will actually be an extra help if he caught the virus?


The article I read seems to indicate it might be.


----------



## MollySmith

Not Cumming soon..... [insert your own pun here] sex now illegal according to the Mirror! 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sex-your-house-person-another-22117105


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought Vulnerable was people over 70 and Shielding was for people who have health problems what ever their age.


There are two types, apologies, I said level 2 which was incorrect. I meant medium.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...navirus/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> I think too many people are too stupid to be given any freedom from lockdown tbh .....
> 
> *Durdle Door: Tombstoning continues despite three seriously hurt*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emergency crews were called to Durdle Door at about 16:00 BST on Saturday
> Tombstoning has continued on Dorset's Jurassic Coast less than 24 hours after three people were seriously hurt jumping 70ft (21m) from a cliff.
> 
> The casualties were taken to hospital after jumping from Durdle Door at about 16:00 BST on Saturday.
> 
> The coastguard and police have warned against leaping from the "dangerous" 200ft (60m) landmark arch into the sea.
> 
> However, despite warnings and advice to stay away, police said on Sunday some "still saw fit" to attempt it.
> 
> Dorset Council had closed the roads around the scene for safety reasons but hundreds of people still travelled to the area, police said.
> 
> --
> 
> See how the crowds were all crushed together on the beach to allow the helicopter to land and then all be directed off the beach - social distancing my arse! :Banghead


This was a photo of the rubbish left at I believe Blackpool beach.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 441085
> 
> 
> This was a photo of the rubbish left at I believe Blackpool beach.


Can you imagine the outrage if all those bottles and cans were dog poo instead?


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought Vulnerable was people over 70 and Shielding was for people who have health problems what ever their age.


I dont really know. Its rather confusing!


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Not Cumming soon..... [insert your own pun here] sex now illegal according to the Mirror!
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sex-your-house-person-another-22117105


Am I the only that sniggers when I hear his name.  I'm so Seventies!


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> Am I the only that sniggers when I hear his name.  I'm so Seventies!


nope, that and B.J it's a Carry On film.. *Sid James cackle*


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought Vulnerable was people over 70 and Shielding was for people who have health problems what ever their age.


does it really matter?
having just read my original letter, it says i have been recognised as being vinerable and therefore should be shielding, at home, for 12 weeks
matts phone call, from nhs shielding, also told him he was still classed as vunerable, and, so, should continue shielding
so if the gov, and nhs, can use the two words in the same sentence, I guess most others

in all honestly, its the same as all other directions that have been changed, one way or another, a fustercluck that no one truly understands


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Am I the only that sniggers when I hear his name.  I'm so Seventies!


nope, im there too
very nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> nope, im there too
> very nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!


 Frankie Howard and Up Pompeii and Dick Emery had me in hysterics. I still do Dick Emery impression . oh you are awful and It's Miss!


----------



## Magyarmum

Try 6 issues for free >


*TWITTER STORM*
Cummings and goings
Dominic Cummings trip to Durham inspired plenty of Twitter commentary, most of which was unsympathetic to the excuses given by the PM's adviser.

One user tweeted a picture of the two Russian intelligence officers who poisoned Sergei Skripal, with the caption: ""We were simply keen to visit Durham, with its famous castle and cathedral which has a 66m spire."

Another user published a picture of Cummings' face, with the caption: "Here's your freedom of travel mask to print out in case you get stopped anywhere. Just put it on, and do whatever the f**k you want".


----------



## ForestWomble

This weekend was really bad in Dorset, people flocking to the beach, heaps of people coming from all over the country to enjoy our county but rather than respecting it, leaving filth that was just revolting, the village my parents live in had a really bad time with visitors over the last couple of weekends to the point the police had to set up road blocks, and at Durdle Door people were jumping off the cliff into the sea and some were badly injured, resulting in emergency services having to come out.
In the last week there have also been a few fires at Wareham forest.
I know the lockdown has been hard, dog has it been hard! but for goodness sake, some people are such idiots! 

Oh, and apparently, though not surprising, the number of people coming down with covid has increased in Dorset since the lockdown was eased


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> This weekend was really bad in Dorset, people flocking to the beach, heaps of people coming from all over the country to enjoy our county but rather than respecting it, leaving filth that was just revolting, the village my parents live in had a really bad time with visitors over the last couple of weekends to the point the police had to set up road blocks, and at Durdle Door people were jumping off the cliff into the sea and some were badly injured, resulting in emergency services having to come out.
> In the last week there have also been a few fires at Wareham forest.
> I know the lockdown has been hard, dog has it been hard! but for goodness sake, some people are such idiots!
> 
> Oh, and apparently, though not surprising, the number of people coming down with covid has increased in Dorset since the lockdown was eased


I saw it on the news . It was shocking. Also bournemouth beaches were packed too,


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> I saw it on the news . It was shocking. Also bournemouth beaches were packed too,


Yes, shocking 

I know not everyone will agree with me, but I think the easing of lockdown should of started with 'you can travel within your county', not open up the whole of England at once, the police, fire fighters, ambulance, helicopter emergency people etc have done a brilliant job under awful conditions this last week, I just hope they don't end up paying for it with their lives due to the stupidity of some people.


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> Yes, shocking
> 
> I know not everyone will agree with me, but I think the easing of lockdown should of started with *'you can travel within your county*', not open up the whole of England at once, the police, fire fighters, ambulance, helicopter emergency people etc have done a brilliant job under awful conditions this last week, I just hope they don't end up paying for it with their lives due to the stupidity of some people.


I absolutely agree, I'm very worried about friends who volunteer for the RNLI. One was saying if the travel is as it was in March then they have a reasonable chance of knowing what numbers of people to expect but not in these circumstances, and that it's been very low as folk understandably have an interest in their location. Many of my friends are employed in tourism so they aren't on big wages and need to keep well for their work too.


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> Yes, shocking
> 
> I know not everyone will agree with me, but I think the easing of lockdown should of started with 'you can travel within your county', not open up the whole of England at once, the police, fire fighters, ambulance, helicopter emergency people etc have done a brilliant job under awful conditions this last week, I just hope they don't end up paying for it with their lives due to the stupidity of some people.


I agree less transmission. I understand we need to get the economy going again, people back in work and children in schools. It must be so disheartening to be an NHS worker seeing these pictures.

These trips are not necessary also nothing is open so where are all these people going to the toilet !


----------



## Siskin

Something I have noticed on the Facebook golden retriever page I belong to is that there has started to be a lot of human poo being found by their dogs in previously quiet woodlands. As public loos are quite rightly still closed people think that can deposit their filth anywhere and not clear up or bury what they have done. Goldens being goldens regard anything as food and a nice bit of human poo gets hoovered up. Even those dogs kept on a long lead are finding the stuff so it’s not just offlead dogs that could be kept on a lead once more. I bet these people would make a fuss if they stepped in dog poo, but think nothing of leaving their own dumps.

Luckily the woodland that Isla gets a regular walk in isn't very big and not particularly scenic and only locals know about it. As it’s a permissive path it’s not marked on maps and usually there is no one there. It’s also nice and cool for Isla to have a run round in during this warm weather.


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> These trips are not necessary also nothing is open so where are all these people going to the toilet !


It depends where you live as some councils have opened the toilets and clean them more frequently.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> Something I have noticed on the Facebook golden retriever page I belong to is that there has started to be a lot of human poo being found by their dogs in previously quiet woodlands. As public loos are quite rightly still closed people think that can deposit their filth anywhere and not clear up or bury what they have done. Goldens being goldens regard anything as food and a nice bit of human poo gets hoovered up. Even those dogs kept on a long lead are finding the stuff so it's not just offlead dogs that could be kept on a lead once more. I bet these people would make a fuss if they stepped in dog poo, but think nothing of leaving their own dumps.
> 
> Luckily the woodland that Isla gets a regular walk in isn't very big and not particularly scenic and only locals know about it. As it's a permissive path it's not marked on maps and usually there is no one there. It's also nice and cool for Isla to have a run round in during this warm weather.


epressedThe boxers have found the odd human poo so gross. No where does it say, 'stay alert, control the virus, poop in the woods'


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> What about vets ? Are they open for boosters etc. Pips was due in April.


One of my cats was due on the day of lockdown (yeah, right) and I got email to say any time until September (ie six months late) they would do her without having to recommence the course. Just got another saying they are now open for boosters.


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> I agree less transmission. I understand we need to get the economy going again, people back in work and children in schools. It must be so disheartening to be an NHS worker seeing these pictures.
> 
> These trips are not necessary also nothing is open so where are all these people going to the toilet !


I may be wrong but I think all public toilets are closed in the area, I know council run car parks are closed, I've heard people were toileting behind beach huts on Bournemouth beach :Wtf



Siskin said:


> Something I have noticed on the Facebook golden retriever page I belong to is that there has started to be a lot of human poo being found by their dogs in previously quiet woodlands. As public loos are quite rightly still closed people think that can deposit their filth anywhere and not clear up or bury what they have done. Goldens being goldens regard anything as food and a nice bit of human poo gets hoovered up. Even those dogs kept on a long lead are finding the stuff so it's not just offlead dogs that could be kept on a lead once more. I bet these people would make a fuss if they stepped in dog poo, but think nothing of leaving their own dumps.
> 
> Luckily the woodland that Isla gets a regular walk in isn't very big and not particularly scenic and only locals know about it. As it's a permissive path it's not marked on maps and usually there is no one there. It's also nice and cool for Isla to have a run round in during this warm weather.


:Yuck

Hope your woodland remains clear.


----------



## lullabydream

Wish these people knew that Covid-19 could be transmitted via faeces.. Though they probably wouldn't care.. If it gets in the respiratory tract it gets in the digestive tract hence why diarrhea and vomiting can be a symptom too.. 

I think it was due to pressure from the amount of people turning up at the east coast, such as Skegness that they had to open toilets as well as human poo being discovered on the beach too! Although I don't know how attractive a beach would be to many if refreshments weren't open too sadly.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> One of my cats was due on the day of lockdown (yeah, right) and I got email to say any time until September (ie six months late) they would do her without having to recommence the course. Just got another saying they are now open for boosters.


Thats good news. I think I will contact them soon if they dont sms text me,


----------



## Sacrechat

Magyarmum said:


> You could say the same for where I live!.
> 
> In my county which is 4500 sq miles in size with a population of 642 500 people we've had 65 cases, including one in my local town all in Mid March. Friends who live and work in the county's city also have only heard of one case there.
> 
> Perhaps though, because we have been kept fully informed and given specific instructions about when and where to wear masks, the majority of people find no problem about doing what the government has asked them to do.


Is it not possible that having such a tiny population might have something to do with it too?


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Sickening to see the parks filled with rubbish after people's picnics , beer bottles , laughing gas canister.  There enough bins and they cant be bothered to walk a few yards to put their rubbish in there. We've picked up beer bottles ( with gloves ) and put them in bins so they dont get broken and the dogs cut their feet.





kimthecat said:


> Sickening to see the parks filled with rubbish after people's picnics , beer bottles , laughing gas canister.  There enough bins and they cant be bothered to walk a few yards to put their rubbish in there. We've picked up beer bottles ( with gloves ) and put them in bins so they dont get broken and the dogs cut their feet.


I agree:
https://www.leighjournal.co.uk/news...s-irresponsible-rave-bickershaw-country-park/


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jacob Rees-Mogg says it time for Parliament to open up again, the place is over crowded most of the time. So how does he expect it to work, could be interesting.


----------



## Bisbow

So Boris has given me permission to leave the house after 10 weeks instead of 12

I don't think so, not just yet, there is still too much uncertainty for me to risk it
We have coped well so far and I am not going to risk undoing all the good work
So, more sitting in the sun with coffee and cake ( it's a hard life)


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> Jacob Rees-Mogg says it time for Parliament to open up again, the place is over crowded most of the time. So how does he expect it to work, could be interesting.


It works better without the MPs. It exposes behaviour! No wonder he wants them back, they can hide in the crowds and bully with jeers. Very dangerous.


----------



## MollySmith

Apparently it’s a £50 fine for having sex with someone from another household. Can the government fine themselves? They have f.....d us over a few times now....


----------



## Happy Paws2

Later this afternoon we are going down to Sainsbury's and if there isn't much of a queue we go in and have a look for something nice that we haven't had for while, if there a long queue we'll just come back home but at least we'll have had some fresh air.


----------



## Dave S

MollySmith said:


> Apparently it's a £50 fine for having sex with someone from another household. Can the government fine themselves? They have f.....d us over a few times now....


I honestly cannot believe you stooped so low as to think that, let alone put it into the forum.
I am really surprised that you, a fine, honest and outstanding young lady and a valued member of this global internet family would even suggest that.

Even so there is an ex-labour MP who should be fined for her tryst with a married man recently.


----------



## Magyarmum

Sacremist said:


> Is it not possible that having such a tiny population might have something to do with it too?


No doubt it has played a part but having said that one quarter of the population of the county lives in the city, which is the third largest in Hungary and the second largest built up area after Budapest, There were very few cases in the city, mainly I feel because the Mayor, in common with the Mayors of other towns in the county, put into place stringent lock downs. Throughout the country, the wearing of masks was and still is compulsory.

One would have thought the number of infections would have been higher bearing in mind the man highway from southern Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine and Romania runs through the centre of the county bringing hundreds of HGV's and their drivers into the country daily. In order to control the spread of infection HGVs were only allowed to follow certain routes and stop at places designated by the government, and certain border points were closed to all traffic. (Many of them have since been opened)

To date Hungary with a population of just under 10 million people has had under 4000 cases of Covid-19 and 527 deaths. One of the theories being put forward to the low incidence of the infection is because, in common with former Communist states, people were given the BGG vaccine and this has afforded them with some protection Whether that is true only time will tell.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/can-bcg-vaccine-protect-against-covid-19

*CAN THE BCG VACCINE PROTECT AGAINST COVID-19?*


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> I honestly cannot believe you stooped so low as to think that, let alone put it into the forum.
> I am really surprised that you, a fine, honest and outstanding young lady and a valued member of this global internet family would even suggest that.
> 
> Even so there is an ex-labour MP who should be fined for her tryst with a married man recently.


The latest directive from the government

*The Daily Mash*

*The government's lockdown sex rules, explained*
2nd June 2020








*TEN weeks into lockdown, the government has decided to clarify who is allowed to have sex with who, where, and when. Read on: *

Anyone making love indoors must do so with a member of their own household and is not allowed to do so during working hours if furloughed, because that would be mocking Rishi Sunak.

If no members of your household are available for sex, you are permitted to copulate with a cleaner, nanny or au pair provided the correct PPE is employed.

You may also have intercourse with a professional sex worker who visits your home. Designating a partner who lives in another property as a sex worker is illegal and what Tory MPs are already doing.

You are allowed sex with a partner who is not a member of your household in your garden, though you should maintain a minimum of two metres emotional distance at all times.

You may also have sex with someone from another household in a public place like a park, beach or the grounds of Buckingham Palace which you have requested the use of as prime minister.

No sexual partners are allowed to stay overnight at your property in case you become attached to them. They must be kicked to the kerb.

Finally, any or all of these rules may be retrospectively rewritten if Dominic Cummings is found to have violated them. Fines will not be refunded nor pregnancies voided.


----------



## catz4m8z

Bisbow said:


> So Boris has given me permission to leave the house after 10 weeks instead of 12
> 
> I don't think so, not just yet, there is still too much uncertainty for me to risk it
> We have coped well so far and I am not going to risk undoing all the good work
> So, more sitting in the sun with coffee and cake ( it's a hard life)


I think you are quite sensible there! If I was vulnerable I would be waiting til the lockdown eased _then_ waiting a further 2 weeks to see if there was any rise in cases before I popped my head out of my rabbithole!


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> I honestly cannot believe you stooped so low as to think that, let alone put it into the forum.
> I am really surprised that you, a fine, honest and outstanding young lady and a valued member of this global internet family would even suggest that.
> 
> Even so there is an ex-labour MP who should be fined for her tryst with a married man recently.


:Angelic Hehehe!

There's probably a whole Parliament freaking out...!


----------



## Dave S

Magyarmum said:


> The latest directive from the government
> 
> *The Daily Mash*
> 
> *The government's lockdown sex rules, explained*
> 2nd June 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *TEN weeks into lockdown, the government has decided to clarify who is allowed to have sex with who, where, and when. Read on: *
> 
> Anyone making love indoors must do so with a member of their own household and is not allowed to do so during working hours if furloughed, because that would be mocking Rishi Sunak.
> 
> If no members of your household are available for sex, you are permitted to copulate with a cleaner, nanny or au pair provided the correct PPE is employed.
> 
> You may also have intercourse with a professional sex worker who visits your home. Designating a partner who lives in another property as a sex worker is illegal and what Tory MPs are already doing.
> 
> You are allowed sex with a partner who is not a member of your household in your garden, though you should maintain a minimum of two metres emotional distance at all times.
> 
> You may also have sex with someone from another household in a public place like a park, beach or the grounds of Buckingham Palace which you have requested the use of as prime minister.
> 
> No sexual partners are allowed to stay overnight at your property in case you become attached to them. They must be kicked to the kerb.
> 
> Finally, any or all of these rules may be retrospectively rewritten if Dominic Cummings is found to have violated them. Fines will not be refunded nor pregnancies voided.


Thank you for clarifying the matter.
I notice they say partner as in the singular and it does not differentiate between orientations which is good and I fully support the MGBGT community, great cars until they were spoilt with the rubber bumpers.


----------



## kimthecat

Dave S said:


> I honestly cannot believe you stooped so low as to think that, let alone put it into the forum.
> I am really surprised that you, a fine, honest and outstanding young lady and a valued member of this global internet family would even suggest that.
> 
> Even so there is an ex-labour MP who should be fined for her tryst with a married man recently.


I need glasses , I thought it said a £50 *charge *for having sex at home .  

@MollySmith


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Later this afternoon we are going down to Sainsbury's and if there isn't much of a queue we go in and have a look for something nice that we haven't had for while, if there a long queue we'll just come back home but at least we'll have had some fresh air.


You are either braver or sillier than I. I'm not setting foot in a shop until at least September.


----------



## Dave S

kimthecat said:


> I need glasses , I thought it said a £50 *charge *for having sex at home .
> 
> @MollySmith


It's always been free but you used to get Green Shield Stamps...…………………..


----------



## kimthecat

My vet might be doing boosters soon . Thats good news. Also had email from my garage saying my Mot is due at end of june and to book it. Ive emailed back to ask if they are servicing too. Its due one and a new tyre.


----------



## kimthecat

Dave S said:


> It's always been free but you used to get Green Shield Stamps...…………………..


Got loads of those in the drawer . :Hilarious


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> It's always been free but you used to get Green Shield Stamps...…………………..


sure they werent pink stamps?
like green but you needed to work harder for them


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> sure they werent pink stamps?
> like green but you needed to work harder for them


 Im not going there . This is a family forum :Hilarious


----------



## Dave S

kimthecat said:


> Got loads of those in the drawer . :Hilarious


You little devil you.



mrs phas said:


> sure they werent pink stamps?
> like green but you needed to work harder for them


lol, story of my life.

Meanwhile, back on subject, I remember 50+ years ago at school when we all lined up for BCG injections I was at the back of the queue and got bored waiting so did not bother, should I be bothered now?


----------



## Siskin

Dave S said:


> You little devil you.
> 
> lol, story of my life.
> 
> Meanwhile, back on subject, I remember 50+ years ago at school when we all lined up for BCG injections I was at the back of the queue and got bored waiting so did not bother, should I be bothered now?


I was found to have a reaction to the BCG initial thing in the forearm so I didn't have it either as they said there was a natural immunity.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I need glasses , I thought it said a £50 *charge *for having sex at home .
> 
> @MollySmith


 Gimme back my glasses!! Can you imagine how it'll be monitored.... :Woot


----------



## mrs phas

MollySmith said:


> Gimme back my glasses!! Can you imagine how it'll be monitored.... :Woot


for everything else theres mastercard :Facepalm


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> No doubt it has played a part but having said that one quarter of the population of the county lives in the city, which is the third largest in Hungary and the second largest built up area after Budapest, There were very few cases in the city, mainly I feel because the Mayor, in common with the Mayors of other towns in the county, put into place stringent lock downs. Throughout the country, the wearing of masks was and still is compulsory.
> 
> One would have thought the number of infections would have been higher bearing in mind the man highway from southern Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine and Romania runs through the centre of the county bringing hundreds of HGV's and their drivers into the country daily. In order to control the spread of infection HGVs were only allowed to follow certain routes and stop at places designated by the government, and certain border points were closed to all traffic. (Many of them have since been opened)
> 
> To date Hungary with a population of just under 10 million people has had under 4000 cases of Covid-19 and 527 deaths. One of the theories being put forward to the low incidence of the infection is because, in common with former Communist states, people were given the BGG vaccine and this has afforded them with some protection Whether that is true only time will tell.
> 
> https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/can-bcg-vaccine-protect-against-covid-19
> 
> *CAN THE BCG VACCINE PROTECT AGAINST COVID-19?*


Is this the standard TB vaccine? If so, don't we have it in the UK too?

Edit - we used to have it?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Is this the standard TB vaccine? If so, don't we have it in the UK too?
> 
> Edit - we used to have it?


I think I'm correct in saying it was stopped in 2005

In Hungary it's mandatory as it is in several other former communist satellite states. .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine

*BCG vaccine*


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I think I'm correct in saying it was stopped in 2005
> 
> In Hungary it's mandatory as it is in several other former communist satellite states. .
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine
> 
> *BCG vaccine*


But wouldn't that help older people here then though?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> But wouldn't that help older people here then though?


I've always understood it gives lifetime protection.

I remember getting the vaccine at school in around 1953/4 when I believe immunisation for TB first began.

Here in Hungary, they still have the mobile TB Clinics which go from village to village X-raying everyone's chests Usually in January when the vet comes to give the dogs their Rabies vaccination

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/59/8/724

*BCG provides protection for a lifetime*


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I've always understood it gives lifetime protection.
> 
> I remember getting the vaccine at school in around 1953/4 when I believe immunisation for TB first began.
> 
> Here in Hungary, they still have the mobile TB Clinics which go from village to village X-raying everyone's chests Usually in January when the vet comes to give the dogs their Rabies vaccination
> 
> https://thorax.bmj.com/content/59/8/724
> 
> *BCG provides protection for a lifetime*


Sorry, I didn't mean that, I meant if it stopped in 2005, then younger people won't have the protection - so how does that tie up with the fact the younger people aren't really dying from it (apart from other underlying illnesses exacerbating the illness.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> You are either braver or sillier than I. I'm not setting foot in a shop until at least September.


I don't know about been brave or silly,  but when we got there, there wasn't a queue so went straight in, it was really quiet hardly anyone around, got a few things OH went to the till I went outside and packed our bags out there.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean that, I meant if it stopped in 2005, then younger people won't have the protection - so how does that tie up with the fact the younger people aren't really dying from it (apart from other underlying illnesses exacerbating the illness.


I think the point is that countries where the vaccine is mandatory or where it is common for children to be vaccinated against TB,* overall *have had fewer cases of Covis-19 than countries where BCG isn't.


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> I think the point is that countries where the vaccine is mandatory or where it is common for children to be vaccinated against TB,* overall *have had fewer cases of Covis-19 than countries where BGG isn't.


That would rule out all undeveloped countries, or rather those with terrible health services.. Which currently have terrible outbreaks and no good statistics anyway..

I would assume that the bcg vaccination is quite possibly more a correlation, than causation. Hence as @MilleD rightly said there would be a lot less deaths in the UK if it was helping.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

BCG is still given to babies born to parents from certain countries, even if born here. In my old hospital (in London) we offered BCG to all babies, no matter what their heritage, I think it's similar in many large cities. 

In other news, I am booked in for my Covid-19 antibody test...I'm looking forward to knowing the result. It will change nothing but I'll be part of the statistics


----------



## MollySmith

If the daily briefing was the highlight of your day I'm afraid it is back to Homes Under The Hammer, Escape To The Country or Heartbeat very soon. Yes, the comedy of errors ends soon and Johnson is taking direct control and a weekly briefing.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> That would rule out all undeveloped countries, or rather those with terrible health services.. Which currently have terrible outbreaks and no good statistics anyway..
> 
> I would assume that the bcg vaccination is quite possibly more a correlation, than causation. Hence as @MilleD rightly said there would be a lot less deaths in the UK if it was helping.


I worded my reply rather badly. What I should have said was that BCG helps to reduce the severity of the infection which I imagine, would reduce the overall number of cases and resultant deaths.

I only have a layman's knowledge however, so just going by logic.

An article by the Lancet

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31025-4/fulltext


----------



## lullabydream

@Magyarmum do they give the bcg vaccine later in life in Hungary as the lancet article states childhood vaccine will probably do nothing to help with Covid-19

Also I know when the bcg was given here in the UK.. We always had the 6 needles first. Which sounded harrowing as teens and made worse by older peers suggesting it is..if you reacted you had didn't have the vaccine but chest x Ray to confirm you haven't TB but antibodies already. So Hungary may be studious checking for TB flare ups with chest x rays but again I think it's hard to say what's really helping with Covid-19 and why it's not always a good idea currently to compare both. Although I know @Magyarmum you are very familiar with both the UK and several others..Far better knowledge than many when purely looking at statistics

Although.. Can I have a wild guess it might to do with all those vampires in your parts!


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> @Magyarmum do they give the bcg vaccine later in life in Hungary as the lancet article states childhood vaccine will probably do nothing to help with Covid-19
> 
> Also I know when the bcg was given here in the UK.. We always had the 6 needles first. Which sounded harrowing as teens and made worse by older peers suggesting it is..if you reacted you had didn't have the vaccine but chest x Ray to confirm you haven't TB but antibodies already. So Hungary may be studious checking for TB flare ups with chest x rays but again I think it's hard to say what's really helping with Covid-19 and why it's not always a good idea currently to compare both. Although I know @Magyarmum you are very familiar with both the UK and several others..Far better knowledge than many when purely looking at statistics
> 
> Although.. Can I have a wild guess it might to do with all those vampires in your parts!


So the answer to all this is garlic?!


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> I need glasses , I thought it said a £50 *charge *for having sex at home .


 Give it time Kim.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> So the answer to all this is garlic?!


No we need vampires.. We need more vampire blood
Maybe go to Whitby and hang around the Abbey at night?!?!?


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> No we need vampires.. We need more vampire blood
> Maybe go to Whitby and hang around the Abbey at night?!?!?


Oh, you'll definitely see some there. At least that's what the Dracula Experience tells you.

I'll check next time I go up to my step dad's house before it's sold


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> If the daily briefing was the highlight of your day I'm afraid it is back to Homes Under The Hammer, Escape To The Country or Heartbeat very soon. Yes, the comedy of errors ends soon and Johnson is taking direct control and a weekly briefing.
> 
> View attachment 441265


No more Art Club. No more random government ministers


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> If the daily briefing was the highlight of your day I'm afraid it is back to Homes Under The Hammer, Escape To The Country or Heartbeat very soon. Yes, the comedy of errors ends soon and Johnson is taking direct control and a weekly briefing.
> 
> View attachment 441265


I thought they were still running Monday to Friday?


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> I thought they were still running Monday to Friday?


I did too, just not weekends so more MPs could enjoy Barnard Castle after Cummings glowing review!

OK apologises backtracking..


----------



## Happy Paws2

On the news this morning they were talking to a nurse who is working for the trace and track call center (or what ever it's called) she worked for them for over a week and hasn't had to handle one call, she says she is paid £17.50p an hour and is just sitting there watching Nexflix with nothing to do.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> On the news this morning they were talking to a nurse who is working for the trace and track call center (or what ever it's called) she worked for them for over a week and hasn't had to handle one call, she says she is paid £17.50p an hour and is just sitting there watching Nexflix with nothing to do.


This was addressed in a daily briefing. There aren't as many cases as they planned for which is a good thing. People haven't mixed with many people which is a good thing and a lot of people are using an online version they fill in themselves.


----------



## lorilu

I expect with all the riots in the US we will be having some numerous outbreaks in the next two weeks. My community is in "phase 2" opening at the moment, retail and restaurants just starting to open. Or is it called phase 3. I've lost track. I am going into work twice a week now and there are other people in my office section as the same time as me, but we all have to wear masks and stay in our own spaces, no congregating.

Other than that I am continuing as I have been, avoiding people and going to the store only once every 2 weeks, or as seldom as possible.

We did have one of those protests here, but it didn't turn into a riot and according to the newspaper story, everyone wore masks, though they certainly weren't keeping a distance from one another judging by the photographs and videos.

Just hope all those rioters stay where they belong, and don't make their way into our community. We're a summer vacation spot, especially for one of those places. Fortunately the places that draw the most out of staters in summer are closed for the season. At least all but one, and that one is simply keeping all their customers hanging on and cancelling week by week a month in advance.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> On the news this morning they were talking to a nurse who is working for the trace and track call center (or what ever it's called) she worked for them for over a week and hasn't had to handle one call, she says she is paid £17.50p an hour and is just sitting there watching Nexflix with nothing to do.


I suppose on one hand it could be down to not as many cases out there YET
on the other, it might just be that no one is going to bother to call and 'dob' their mates in, for being round for a bbq at the weekend, or cannot remember all the people they passed in the street/supermarket/petrolstation et al
after all are we meant to ask for those peoples phone numbers and them ours 'just in case'
track and trace relys on people not being suspicious of the government and following orders like the good citizens they are
now where could i _possibly_ have heard something very similar to that before


----------



## Cully

@mrs phas , forgive me for being the old cynic I am but I suspect those people who are flouting the rules are less likely(!!!) to be responsible enough to provide any information which allows them to be traced. 
Oh how I wish they could all be rounded up and teleported to a remote, uninhabited island somewhere where they could all have as many covid BBQ,s and parties as they like.


----------



## Dave S

£17.50 per hour for staying at home - wish I had applied.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> On the news this morning they were talking to a nurse who is working for the trace and track call center (or what ever it's called) she worked for them for over a week and hasn't had to handle one call, she says she is paid £17.50p an hour and is just sitting there watching Nexflix with nothing to do.


Holy crap! _Im_ a nurse...I could totally do that job!:Woot

I think its pretty much run the course through our hospital staff though. Whenever someone mentions having it we all get together in a little 'covid club' and swap symptoms! LOL Those who merely suffered a few sniffles are laughed out of the room!:Hilarious
Not surprising though, it often happens you will be looking after a supposedly non infected patient and all of a sudden they start showing symptoms.

I do wonder what difference all the protests and gatherings will have though. Must be kinda difficult for people who are trying to peacefully protest and socially distance....after all if you are just shouting on your own you tend to look like a looney!


----------



## rona

I see the up turn in positive tests has started. I did think it would start last week, but maybe not many took risks that first week we were let out!


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> On the news this morning they were talking to a nurse who is working for the trace and track call center (or what ever it's called) she worked for them for over a week and hasn't had to handle one call, she says she is paid £17.50p an hour and is just sitting there watching Nexflix with nothing to do.


Yes, I know a couple of people who are doing this & have still yet to receive a call. This must be costing £££'s & with what real benefit?


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> I see the up turn in positive tests has started. I did think it would start last week, but maybe not many took risks that first week we were let out!


Oh no! Not surprising really, here the beaches have been jam packed and a lot of people haven't been distancing. Where did you hear that? I cant find anything about it.


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> Oh no! Not surprising really, here the beaches have been jam packed and a lot of people haven't been distancing. Where did you hear that? I cant find anything about it.


From the daily briefing. Hoping it's just a one off but I fear and expect not


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I see the up turn in positive tests has started. I did think it would start last week, but maybe not many took risks that first week we were let out!


Isn't that to do with the numbers of tests going up too though?


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, I know a couple of people who are doing this & have still yet to receive a call. This must be costing £££'s & with what real benefit?


I imagine it's to shut up all the people that said the government have totally failed to control the virus because they stopped contact tracing.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Isn't that to do with the numbers of tests going up too though?


That's never accurate though is it, as they still count the tests sent for home testing.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> That's never accurate though is it, as they still count the tests sent for home testing.


It still stands that the more tests done, the more positive tests will return.

It's like the comment (I think) Vallance said yesterday that he thinks that as many as 8000 will be infected each day. It's a bit of a pointless comment as all along there have been people infected but not tested.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> It still stands that the more tests done, the more positive tests will return.


The number now includes 36,000+ antibody test and yesterday 60,000 sent in post 
The actual tests for covid haven't gone up substantially for a couple of weeks


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I have just ordered a home test kit for mum, she is housebound and I have been living with her since 24th March, haven't been beyond her garden in all that time. I can`t imagine she had C-19 she has carers in everyday but the incident rate is going down so surely the chances of them being infected is lower so the chances of infecting mum must also be low! She started a dry cough early this morning and has continued to cough although typically after using the NHS site she has stopped coughing so much now.


----------



## rona

3dogs2cats said:


> I have just ordered a home test kit for mum, she is housebound and I have been living with her since 24th March, haven't been beyond her garden in all that time. I can`t imagine she had C-19 she has carers in everyday but the incident rate is going down so surely the chances of them being infected is lower so the chances of infecting mum must also be low! She started a dry cough early this morning and has continued to cough although typically after using the NHS site she has stopped coughing so much now.


How old is mum?
Hoping she is clear


----------



## 3dogs2cats

rona said:


> How old is mum?
> Hoping she is clear


 She is 89, she was fully mobile until she had an accident late last year, its been so crap because when she was discharged from hospital I was told she would have physio at home to get her walking again, no physio was forthcoming as there was a huge waiting list then a few weeks later we are in lockdown. I am hopeful of a negative result especially as she appears to have stopped coughing now!


----------



## Cully

@3dogs2cats , you're in my thoughts and really hoping for negative result. You must be so worried.


----------



## ForestWomble

3dogs2cats said:


> She is 89, she was fully mobile until she had an accident late last year, its been so crap because when she was discharged from hospital I was told she would have physio at home to get her walking again, no physio was forthcoming as there was a huge waiting list then a few weeks later we are in lockdown. I am hopeful of a negative result especially as she appears to have stopped coughing now!


Hoping for a negative result.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

ForestWomble said:


> Hoping for a negative result.





Cully said:


> @3dogs2cats , you're in my thoughts and really hoping for negative result. You must be so worried.


Thank you so much, Yes I am worried but I keep telling myself logically her chances of being infected are small, she hasn't coughed so much since I ordered the test -typically but according to the guidelines a new dry cough that lasts for over an hour or three bouts in 24hrs is a symptom.

Test will arrive tomorrow, hopefully before 4pm because the system to book the courier to collect test samples closes at 4pm. Once it is here I have to log the barcodes and get the courier sorted to collect the samples on Friday, presuming it comes before 4pm otherwise I will have to wait to log barcodes until Friday for collection Saturday. Have to take the swabs after 9pm on the day before collection. I am very concerned to get the swabs done correctly but there is a video to follow. Results take 2-4 days to get back I presume they test 7 days a week and that isn't 2-4 working days!


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Give it time Kim.





lullabydream said:


> No we need vampires.. We need more vampire blood
> Maybe go to Whitby and hang around the Abbey at night?!?!?





MilleD said:


> Oh, you'll definitely see some there. At least that's what the Dracula Experience tells you.
> 
> I'll check next time I go up to my step dad's house before it's sold


I met a boyfriend at the Whitby Goth Fest... we would have been fined .... ironically the distance between us - several 100 miles ruined our fledgling relationship!


----------



## MollySmith

3dogs2cats said:


> She is 89, she was fully mobile until she had an accident late last year, its been so crap because when she was discharged from hospital I was told she would have physio at home to get her walking again, no physio was forthcoming as there was a huge waiting list then a few weeks later we are in lockdown. I am hopeful of a negative result especially as she appears to have stopped coughing now!


I'm so sorry, thinking of you and your mum, I can't imagine how you must be feeling.


----------



## Lurcherlad

@3dogs2cats - hope the test proves negative.

A worry for you


----------



## kimthecat

@3dogs2cats Hope your mums test is negative and she is feeling better.

I wonder what is happening about Uk holidays . Lots of news about holidays abroad but havent seen thing about holidays here.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> @3dogs2cats Hope your mums test is negative and she is feeling better.
> 
> I wonder what is happening about Uk holidays . Lots of news about holidays abroad but havent seen thing about holidays here.


I think they hope for 4th July but heard that the R number in the North West and South West has now tipped over 1, according to the latest PHE/Cambridge University analysis. I would like to think that this would affect the decision.


----------



## MollySmith




----------



## purringcats

I do believe that the Government plans to implement local or regional lockdowns if the R number goes over one instead of locking the whole country down again, so whilst the Government plans to have most businesses up and running again in July it could hold back opening them in areas in which the R number is above one. I would love to know how this will be policed because in my area it has been badly policed due to the police working with a skeleton crew so they would only attend serious crime and just let complaints about breaches of the lockdown build up to deal with later on.


----------



## purringcats

The shops that have been closed are starting to reopen now with social distancing markers everywhere and the local town is starting to get busy again in my area.


----------



## MollySmith

purringcats said:


> I do believe that the Government plans to implement local or regional lockdowns if the R number goes over one instead of locking the whole country down again, so whilst the Government plans to have most businesses up and running again in July it could hold back opening them in areas in which the R number is above one. I would love to know how this will be policed because in my area it has been badly policed due to the police working with a skeleton crew so they would only attend serious crime and just let complaints about breaches of the lockdown build up to deal with later on.


Oh yes, Boris's 'wack a mole' strategy and the 'world beating' track and trace coming to a mobile near us on 1 June... end of June or maybe September.

Friends and family said it's been too busy for them to feel safe in SW. I know several shops were asking for proof of address before this recent so -called relaxing to stop visitors breaking rules.


----------



## lorilu

I am quite surprised that I have adjusted so well to mask wearing, but there is a down side to that. At work everyone is required to wear a mask, except when at their own desks. We're not supposed to congregate but we do of course sometimes have to speak to one another, plus I have to go out to the mail room or the ladies room. I see that most people leave their masks off and then sometimes remember to put it on before they leave their desk area or someone comes to their area, other times forget and kind of scramble around to find it and hold it over their faces.

That on and off bit I find too much of a pain in the neck, it is easier for me to just leave the thing on al day, even when using the phone. My first time doing that was Tuesday. (I am only in the office Tuesdays and Thursdays at the moment) So I found out the draw back is that by the time I got home I felt so ill and oxygen starved, or perhaps it's a carbon dioxide overdose, I had a draining headache and felt quite ill and breathless.

It went away after an hour or so, but I can see I am going to have to take at least some breaks with the mask during working hours.

I'll start with when I'm lying flat on the floor doing my back exercises, 10 minutes every 2 hours. No one bothers me then anyway. Right now I am working straight through the day, but when we are back on regular full time in the office (as of now, that is supposed to start June 15) I'll be back to taking an hour lunch each day, and will be coming home for that, so that will give me an oxygen break too.


----------



## Cully

I'm full of admiration for those who spend a lot of time wearing masks. I've been 'practising' wearing mine and find it very claustrophobic. Also wearing it up over the bridge of my nose and resting my glasses on it feels unsafe.
I don't think I want to use it while on my scooter. I'm frightened it might interfere with my vision at a very inappropriate moment. How do others manage while driving with mask?


----------



## Siskin

When I’ve come into the hospital I’ve had to wear a mask. As I wear glasses I was steaming up. Once on the ward then I don’t have to wear one, but all the staff do


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> When I've come into the hospital I've had to wear a mask. As I wear glasses I was steaming up. Once on the ward then I don't have to wear one, but all the staff do


Did you wear your own mask? I have to have an x Ray next week at hospital. Its not local because that's closed, I presumed I would have to wear a mask anyway and was going to wear mine Then the government are making it compulsory.. But I thought that was a bit late as people were doing it. Its not a problem I have my own face mask just wondered if there would be a protocol type thing that's all.. Such as clean hands, take a mask?!?


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> How do others manage while driving with mask?


I see people in cars, and vans wearing masks as beards.. Does that answer your question? 
Out on your scooter, you are in fresh air so in theory the viral load lessens especially if moving so I wouldn't wear a mask if going out and about.

If you wear glasses, to stop them steaming up wash with washing up liquid it helps a bit.

I tend to wear my mask only inside places like supermarkets where I am going to be a while and can't social distance well.


----------



## MollySmith

I don’t wear mine in the car, it feels like I ought to be wearing a blue tooth headset or something. Not that I’ve driven the car very much.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> I'm full of admiration for those who spend a lot of time wearing masks. I've been 'practising' wearing mine and find it very claustrophobic. Also wearing it up over the bridge of my nose and resting my glasses on it feels unsafe.
> I don't think I want to use it while on my scooter. I'm frightened it might interfere with my vision at a very inappropriate moment. How do others manage while driving with mask?


I have severe claustrophobia, which is why I was very surprised to find myself adjusting so easily. But my issue is, not only small spaces, but I can't stand to be enclosed somewhere I can't get out of immediately if I want to. The mask wearing does not give me that feeling.

I don't wear it driving my car. I used to be troubled by steamed up glasses all the time, but it isn't happening any more, so somehow I've got the knack of placing it just right, now. I use (more than once) the paper throw away ones rather than all the sewn fabric ones available now. I find they never fit me right, as I have a small face. The blue ones fit me just right..


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> When I've come into the hospital I've had to wear a mask. As I wear glasses I was steaming up. Once on the ward then I don't have to wear one, but all the staff do


I used to be troubled by steamed up glasses all the time, but it isn't happening any more, so somehow I've got the knack of placing it just right, now. I don't even find myself readjusting it and fiddling with it all the time as you see so many people doing. I pretty much forget i have it on. I am grateful for this small but positive thing in my life.


----------



## kittih

Unless you are wearing an N95 maskwhich has to be properly fitted and tested to check it is fully sealed then any mask you wear is to protect others from you not protect you from other people.

The masks recommended to be worn in the UK public transport and some workplaces reduce the amount of large and smaller saliva droplets being projected from the mouth and nose when you speak/cough/sneeze. The idea is that in closer proximity such as work or on transport especially in indoor environments it reduces the amount of droplets other people will breath in. As the masks dont form a seal you can still preathe in salivadroplets in the environment. Therefore wearing masks in situations where you will not spread your saliva droplets to someone else eg outside or in your own car alone is pretty pointless.

If poeople are putting on and taking off the same mask then they are spreading a high concentration of their saliva and any virus particles contained inside onto any surface they put the mask onto and also onto their hands which unless they wash them they will then speed to other surfaces. Adjusting a mask and touching your face will allow virus particles you have picked up from surfaces in the office to get onto your own face. If you take the mask off then you need a new one. Also I have read that you shouldn't be wearing tje same mask all day. As it becomes saturated it will allow less air to pass through also there is a growing concentration of virus particles if you do have asymptomatic covid.


----------



## Cully

It's worrying just how risky it might be if you're walking outside and someone runs/jogs past you. How much risk is there of droplets in their slipstream?
I hang my mask up so it's isolated until I can deal with it.


----------



## lorilu

kittih said:


> Unless you are wearing an N95 maskwhich has to be properly fitted and tested to check it is fully sealed then any mask you wear is to protect others from you not protect you from other people.


Yes I think pretty much everyone understands that by now.  The rest of your post...all true in theory but not very realistic in the real world. Once you factor in humans al heck breaks loose. Someone makes the rules and the people who follow them do so to the best of their ability.

The people who don't follow them..well they are always going to be with us.

At work, our work spaces and surfaces are cleaned and sanitized in the morning by custodial staff. Then, we are instructed when we come in to re-sanitize with the antiviral wipes provided. Then we are instructed to do so again before we leave our office at the end of the day. We are instructed to use the hand sanitizer regularly and of course wash hands when feasible (as in after using the toilet). I do all this, and keep my mask on. I do throw the work mask away at the end of the day. The mask I use to go to the store once every two weeks or so, when I take it off, I leave it in the car, and use it again in two weeks when I go to the store again.

The mask I carry with me when I hike I keep in my hiking pants pocket. If I see people approaching I put it on. Often once I put it on, I forget to take it off until I am back to my car.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well, I had my antibody test today, it's a right mess! I'm so easy to get blood from but oh no...*sigh* Never mind.

I'm intrigued by the new mask wearing guidelines. I've obviously been wearing PPE for several weeks now, the masks are sessional and we wear them for up to four hours. I wear glasses, so have to get it just right, I can't deal with a particular type of tie mask that we sometimes have as it has a horrid piece of foam under the bridge which feels like it's burning my skin.

@lullabydream you might find that you get a call from the hospital prior to your appointment. We are calling all of our ladies before each clinic - and of course have very recently started to ask them to wear a face covering if they have one and soon it will be compulsory to wear one for an outpatient appointment. I am fed up of saying to people wearing a mask not to touch it once it's on though. I've also finally managed to source some narrow elastic locally, so hopefully I can make myself another cotton mask to wear whilst out and about...not that I do much out and about! I hope to goodness they don't say we have to wear a mask whilst running though, that would finish me off I think!


----------



## Siskin

Siskin said:


> When I've come into the hospital I've had to wear a mask. As I wear glasses I was steaming up. Once on the ward then I don't have to wear one, but all the staff do


They are proper hospital masks that the hospital provides. You put them on as soon as you enter.

I've noticed not all staff are wearing masks, most are but there's just a few that don't. I was wondering why. They are all wearing masks on this ward, just noticed them around the hospital,


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> It's worrying just how risky it might be if you're walking outside and someone runs/jogs past you. How much risk is there of droplets in their slipstream?
> I hang my mask up so it's isolated until I can deal with it.


Everything I've read is about how long you breathe in particles, not just a one time exposure. Outside, someone running past you, with lots of airflow, you would likely not get exposed for long enough to be infected. It's situations where you're sitting near a coworker and sharing the same air in a less ventilated area for hours that the most contagions happen.


----------



## kittih

lorilu said:


> Yes I think pretty much everyone understands that by now.  The rest of your post...all true


I really hope so and I am sure everyone here on P F knows but given some of the things posted on social media, comments made by acquaintances and the behaviour of people out and about it is clear that some people believe that by wearing a mask they are protecting themselves and are less careful as a result. It is also for the benefit of any lurkers who may not be as clued up


----------



## kittih

O2.0 said:


> Everything I've read is about how long you breathe in particles, not just a one time exposure. Outside, someone running past you, with lots of airflow, you would likely not get exposed for long enough to be infected. It's situations where you're sitting near a coworker and sharing the same air in a less ventilated area for hours that the most contagions happen.


Yes length of time of exposure is also key.

@Cully In an outdoor environment the air mass, which any saliva particles bearing the virus float within, is always moving and this mixing dilutes the particles so your exposure is minimal. In a room where there is no airflow that mixing is limited or slower so exposure to greater quantities is more likely. Thats why having windows open and plenty of mixing air flow helps.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/06...zOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==

*Coronavirus: Wear mask in public, WHO's new advice*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/06/coronavirus-latest-wear-mask-in-public-who-s-new-advice?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=en&utm_content=coronavirus-latest-wear-mask-in-public-who-s-new-advice&_ope=eyJndWlkIjoiMGQzOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==
> 
> *Coronavirus: Wear mask in public, WHO's new advice*


About time, it does make sense I'm surprised it's taken so long, the few times we have been out we have always worn one.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> About time, it does make sense I'm surprised it's taken so long, the few times we have been out we have always worn one.


In Hungary wearing a mask in shops, confined areas and on public transport has been compulsory since the end of March.

In my village everyone was given two washable masks and 500 mls of sanitiser The washable masks are thick and get too hot to wear for long, so I only wear them if I need to wear a mask for a short time,like getting petrol

I've got a stock of around 80 disposal surgical masks which I bought online but cheat a little because as soon as I get home I soak them in soapy water then hang them outside in the fresh air for a couple of day before using them again.

An interesting article and statistics about Covid-19 whhich was posted on my FB page

https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/covid-19-hazank-a-legbiztonsagosabb-helyek-kozott-8206559/

*Covid-19: Hungary is among the safest places*

https://www.dkv.global/covid-safety-assessment-200-regions

*COVID-19 Regional Safety Assessment (200 Regions)*


----------



## Cully

At the beginning anyone coming to your door, delivery workers and repair men etc , all wore masks and gloves.
As time has passed I've been quite alarmed that they don't wear PPE now, apart from a few.
I always put a mask on when they come to my door, so in effect I'm protecting them (I don't go out or mix), but they aren't protecting me, yet must have contact with many people during the course of their days work. 
I understand, the guy who just hands you a package is low risk as the contact time is minimal. But what about the plumber who needs to spend up to an hour with you?
Have companies run out of PPE, or have workers become complacent and just don't care?
Just to add, I live in a tiny flat with no chance of keeping my distance, or going into another room.


----------



## purringcats

The advice is confusing.

We have been told two different things about masks.

We have also been told 2 different things about ibuprofen (Ibuprofen is now being considered for treatment for symptoms of Covid-19).
https://www.news.sky.com/story/amp/...reatment-to-reduce-covid-19-symptoms-11999589

The UK Government was very slow at initially reacting to this virus in my opinion.


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> At the beginning anyone coming to your door, delivery workers and repair men etc , all wore masks and gloves.
> As time has passed I've been quite alarmed that they don't wear PPE now, apart from a few.
> I always put a mask on when they come to my door, so in effect I'm protecting them (I don't go out or mix), but they aren't protecting me, yet must have contact with many people during the course of their days work.
> I understand, the guy who just hands you a package is low risk as the contact time is minimal. But what about the plumber who needs to spend up to an hour with you?
> Have companies run out of PPE, or have workers become complacent and just don't care?
> Just to add, I live in a tiny flat with no chance of keeping my distance, or going into another room.


I reported my boiler repair man
I made sure the company knew I was classed as vunerable and had, then, been isolating for 8 weeks, and, they assured me he would be wearing full PPE
Did he heck as like, cheeky bugger even asked for a cuppa, pre covid I would've offerred him one, but.... 
I told them when I reported him, apologies are no good when your on a ventilator


----------



## Cully

Since lockdown I've had workmen in 6 times but only on 2 occasions was PPE worn. When I asked the guy who boarded up my window if he was bothered about not having PPE, his reply was, "nah, if you catch it you catch it".


----------



## catz4m8z

Cully said:


> his reply was, "nah, if you catch it you catch it".


Presumably he meant you...coz he could be going around symptom free happily infecting everyone he comes in contact with. Selfish git!


----------



## Cully

Well he was a big fat lardy and a prime candidate for high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes, and the right age for cardiac trouble. I would have expected him to not take any risks.
Nah, I think he was commenting about himself. How do I know? He was still able to stand when he left.unch


----------



## purringcats

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...r-breakthrough-on-antibody-treatment-12002160

Let's hope this turns into really positive news?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

It makes me mad. I obviously spend a lot of my day in PPE. I’ve also been incredibly stringent about trips out, supermarket and work and my daily exercise. When we could only go out once a day for exercise, that’s what I did. I have no issue with people wearing masks, I *do* have an issue with gloves as the folk I see wearing them touch everything with their gloves on and think it’s okay. No gloves and wash your hands, there’s research that shows people are less likely to wash their hands if they have been wearing gloves. However if you are wearing a mask, please stop fiddling with it! Put it on and leave it be. 

If I was having a workman I’m the house for a prolonged period of time then I’d expect them to wear PPE and if they didn’t, I’d ask them to leave. 

My thing isn’t about me catching it because I don’t want it - it’s about my not catching it so I don’t spread it. I’d hate to make husband, one of my colleagues or one of my ladies ill just because I’d not followed the rules. Husband has been incredible about rule following too, as I’m his only real contact he doesn’t want to risk spreading it either.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Not that I don't think they have a point in the demonstrations going on all over the world, but what the matter with them all crowded together, they maybe spreading this terrible virus and we might end up with another lockdown.


----------



## Siskin

Here's something to explain how to visualise the distance of 2 metres apart


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> Here's something to explain how to visualise the distance of 2 metres apart
> 
> View attachment 441652


----------



## Jaf

Mrs Funkin said:


> However if you are wearing a mask, please stop fiddling with it! Put it on and leave it be.


I'm still not getting on well with masks, I'm endlessly fiddling with them. I don't know how you can put up with them! Luckily for me I only need wear one for at most an hour.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

It is hard @Jaf i know that  I have no choice which is (I guess) how I put up with it.


----------



## Cully

I do agree @Mrs Funkin , it must be so frustrating. I've followed all the rules so far and get extremely annoyed with people who don't, because I've had to sacrifice quite a lot but I don't mind if it's to help squash this virus. So I don't understand what gives some people the right to throw those efforts back in the faces of all of us who have given up so much to follow the rules. Are they so blinded by their own selfish attitudes that they can't see how dangerous their actions are. Or is it that they honestly don't care.
I didn't have any choice when the man came to board my window. Believe me I would have kicked him out for not wearing any PPE. But I would have been left with no window overnight, in a ground floor flat where anyone could have climbed in AND no way of keeping Misty indoors. She's never allowed to stay out at night and would have been terrified.
I dread watching the news, always expecting to hear another wave is happening.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> I do agree @Mrs Funkin *, it must be so frustrating. I've followed all the rules so far and get extremely annoyed with people who don't, because I've had to sacrifice quite a lot but I don't mind if it's to help squash this virus. So I don't understand what gives some people the right to throw those efforts back in the faces of all of us who have given up so much to follow the rules. Are they so blinded by their own selfish attitudes that they can't see how dangerous their actions are. Or is it that they honestly don't care.*
> I didn't have any choice when the man came to board my window. Believe me I would have kicked him out for not wearing any PPE. But I would have been left with no window overnight, in a ground floor flat where anyone could have climbed in AND no way of keeping Misty indoors. She's never allowed to stay out at night and would have been terrified.
> I dread watching the news, always expecting to hear another wave is happening.


Fully agree with this.


----------



## MollySmith

Delete off topic.


----------



## Gemmaa

I wear gloves, but only for shopping and I don't touch anything I shouldn't, even though I get a violently itchy face as soon as I get in the shop, every single time, without fail :Arghh..but I take them off sensibly, & disinfect them in the car, spray my hands, & use hand gel. 

I wrap my car keys in tissue so they're not 'contaminated' from the gloves, but I also spray my bag with disinfectant, and the boot handle, and I still wipe the car keys when I get in the car.

..then I have to disinfect anything I touched in the car and the seat, before I put it away, and wash all my clothes when I'm home.

I think I'm the other extreme though, and will probably come out the other end of this with some fairly major problems :Hilarious


----------



## 3dogs2cats

It will interesting to see if the new rules on the wearing of face masks gets rolled out to cover home care providers too, my mums carers have never worn masks but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes mandatory to wear them in clients homes.


----------



## kimthecat

Where are people getting their masks from. Ive put in an order for some from easylife but will have to wait while they replenish their stock. 
i understand on London Transport you are allowed to wear a face covering such as a scarf.


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> It will interesting to see if the new rules on the wearing of face masks gets rolled out to cover home care providers too, my mums carers have never worn masks but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes mandatory to wear them in clients homes.


My neighbor is a carer and she had masks for weeks now.


----------



## purringcats

kimthecat said:


> Where are people getting their masks from. Ive put in an order for some from easylife but will have to wait while they replenish their stock.
> i understand on London Transport you are allowed to wear a face covering such as a scarf.


I have been told that some newsagents, one of the local pharmacies is selling them and takeaways are selling them in the town I live in. The local pharmacy works out cheapest as they sell 10 face masks for £10 whilst the local takeaways and newsagents are selling single face masks for £8 each. You can buy reusable (washable) ones on eBay for £6 odd including delivery.


----------



## purringcats

77 Covid-19 deaths in all settings yesterday in the UK.
Zero Covid-19 deaths in Northern Ireland and zero Covid-19 deaths in Scotland.

Hopefully the UK is starting to get see the end of this awful virus?


----------



## rona

We are buying one each at £8, but they are coming from our favourite charity ,http://www.happypawspuppyrescue.co.uk/ on their FB page. We are only likely to use it very infrequently, so one should do each of us


----------



## rona

purringcats said:


> 77 Covid-19 deaths in all settings yesterday.
> Zero Covid-19 deaths in Northern Ireland and zero Covid-19 deaths in Scotland.
> 
> Hopefully the UK is starting to get see the end of this awful virus?


Unfortunately, that's a weekend number and I'd expect it to go up to about 300+ by Tuesday.
I'm looking more at positive tests rather than deaths, as that now shows the amount of virus floating about in society as well as care settings. When that gets down to less than 100, I'll feel reasonably safe. At the moment, it is running at about 1400 every single day


----------



## Magyarmum

Gemmaa said:


> I wear gloves, but only for shopping and I don't touch anything I shouldn't, even though I get a violently itchy face as soon as I get in the shop, every single time, without fail :Arghh..but I take them off sensibly, & disinfect them in the car, spray my hands, & use hand gel.
> 
> I wrap my car keys in tissue so they're not 'contaminated' from the gloves, but I also spray my bag with disinfectant, and the boot handle, and I still wipe the car keys when I get in the car.
> 
> ..then I have to disinfect anything I touched in the car and the seat, before I put it away, and wash all my clothes when I'm home.
> 
> I think I'm the other extreme though, and will probably come out the other end of this with some fairly major problems :Hilarious


You are not alone..... I do virtually the same as you.

! take two handbags with me, the one I would normally use which contains all the essential items like credit cards, driving license, purse etc which is kept locked in my car. The other is a small handbag which fastens round my waist containing, tissues, a small bottle of sanitiser money, specs and mobile.,

I leave all but one shopping bag (which I use for very small items) at home and just unload my groceries directly into the boot of my car. I keep a 100% sanitiser spray in the boot to decontaminate my keys, the boot latch and when I remove my glove, my hands. Dirty gloves and disposable mask are placed in a poop bag.

At home I have a bucket of soapy water and a cloth to wipe my groceries down with before they're put into clean shopping bags and taken into the house. I give the car aquick wipe over but don't worry too much as generally I only use it once a week, by which time any lingering virus will be dead.


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Where are people getting their masks from. Ive put in an order for some from easylife but will have to wait while they replenish their stock.
> i understand on London Transport you are allowed to wear a face covering such as a scarf.


Etsy have pretty fabric ones for around £7, Amazon has utilitarian masks , or if you can wield a needle there are several you-tube tutorials to make your own.


----------



## purringcats

New Zealand wipes out Covid-19 as last infected person recovers.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-after-last-person-infected-recovers-12002632

The virus can be beaten.


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> You are not alone..... I do virtually the same as you.
> 
> ! take two handbags with me, the one I would normally use which contains all the essential items like credit cards, driving license, purse etc which is kept locked in my car. The other is a small handbag which fastens round my waist containing, tissues, a small bottle of sanitiser money, specs and mobile.,
> 
> I leave all but one shopping bag (which I use for very small items) at home and just unload my groceries directly into the boot of my car. I keep a 100% sanitiser spray in the boot to decontaminate my keys, the boot latch and when I remove my glove, my hands. Dirty gloves and disposable mask are placed in a poop bag.
> 
> At home I have a bucket of soapy water and a cloth to wipe my groceries down with before they're put into clean shopping bags and taken into the house. I give the car aquick wipe over but don't worry too much as generally I only use it once a week, by which time any lingering virus will be dead.


I do the pretty much the same but I don't even bother taking my mobile or a bag. Key, card and that's it, in my pockets and bags. I have hand sanitiser in the car or a pocket if I cycle. Our farm shop will put pre-order shopping in the boot in cardboard boxes so as long as I lift the lid, the car isn't touched either.


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> Unfortunately, that's a weekend number and I'd expect it to go up to about 300+ by Tuesday.


Its still the lowest weekend number for quite a while though. Im waiting to see what difference all the rioters will make to the numbers though....I mean on one hand they are in the open air so thats good, on the other they are milling about like morons.



SusieRainbow said:


> or if you can wield a needle there are several you-tube tutorials to make your own.


I saw one woman make a mask with a pair of scissors and a sock! So if you dont mind wearing a sock on your face!


----------



## MollySmith

Does anyone here have a right of access? Our neighbours have access through our garden for bins but have begun to use it - only once or twice a week to get their bike through (they used to leave it outside the front). I’m not sure if I should be concerned? If I notice them use it, I clean the handles but I can’t say I always see them and if there is any official guidance we ought to follow?


----------



## SusieRainbow

catz4m8z said:


> Its still the lowest weekend number for quite a while though. Im waiting to see what difference all the rioters will make to the numbers though....I mean on one hand they are in the open air so thats good, on the other they are milling about like morons.
> 
> I saw one woman make a mask with a pair of scissors and a sock! So if you dont mind wearing a sock on your face!


:Stinkyfeet If very well washed maybe !


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> I do the pretty much the same but I don't even bother taking my mobile or a bag. Key, card and that's it, in my pockets and bags. I have hand sanitiser in the car or a pocket if I cycle. Our farm shop will put pre-order shopping in the boot in cardboard boxes so as long as I lift the lid, the car isn't touched either.


In Hungary by law, you have to carry your ID, driving license and all papers related to your car with you, which are kept in my handbag. As I live on my own I carry my mobile to contact Hungarian friends in case of emergency, apart from that I only use it to take photos!


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary by law, you have to carry your ID, driving license and all papers related to your car with you, which are kept in my handbag. As I live on my own I carry my mobile to contact Hungarian friends in case of emergency, apart from that I only use it to take photos!


Ah of course! Yes I'd have to take a bag if I had to carry that too!


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> :Stinkyfeet If very well washed maybe !


I felt safer at the BLM event here than Sainsbury's


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> Where are people getting their masks from. Ive put in an order for some from easylife but will have to wait while they replenish their stock.
> i understand on London Transport you are allowed to wear a face covering such as a scarf.


I think most of the prices being charged for masks is extortion. It's very easy to make your own if you have a T shirt you can spare. You don't need to sew anything. All you need is a ruler and scissors. Plus with home made masks they are re-usable if you wash them.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> I think most of the prices being charged for masks is extortion. It's very easy to make your own if you have a T shirt you can spare. You don't need to sew anything. All you need is a ruler and scissors. Plus with home made masks they are re-usable if you wash them.


I agree with you that the prices charged in the UK for masks is totally ridiculous and verging on extortion!

I paid around 50 pence each for disposable masks like this one


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> "nah, if you catch it you catch it".


Very philosophical; obviously a deep thinker.


----------



## Jobeth

Magyarmum said:


> I agree with you that the prices charged in the UK for masks is totally ridiculous and verging on extortion!
> 
> I paid around 50 pence each for disposable masks like this one


Depending on which ones you buy you can get them from 31p-45p for a pack of 50. I tried using a cotton mask but my glasses steamed up. They also sell a pack of 3 hand sanitisers with 75% alcohol for £6.99. www.medicalfacemask.co.uk/shop/


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Happy Paws2 said:


> My neighbor is a carer and she had masks for weeks now.


Yes indeed some care providers or independent carers will be wearing them while others such as my mums carers don't wear them and never have. I wonder if they will become compulsory for home care providers - I think they are for carers working in care homes but I`m not certain.


----------



## Cully

There's still quite a lot of uncertainty about what we can/can't do. I'm still trying to find out whether it's safe to take a taxi as it's my only form of transport if I have to travel further than my local shops i.e. to the vet. I can't seem to find any official guideline anywhere.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> Does anyone here have a right of access? Our neighbours have access through our garden for bins but have begun to use it - only once or twice a week to get their bike through (they used to leave it outside the front). I'm not sure if I should be concerned? If I notice them use it, I clean the handles but I can't say I always see them and if there is any official guidance we ought to follow?


I'd just assume they do and clean/spray before I touch anything tbh


----------



## Happy Paws2

Anyone confused about what we can ans can't do, there seems to be so many new things we can do. 
I feel it's far to early for some of these things they are saying can open. I still think been able to go or drive anywhere you like is crazy, there should be a limit to far you can go. Then to be told you can eight people in your garden but not in your house, do they really think that's going to work if children are involved they'll be running all over the place.


----------



## shadowmare

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not that I don't think they have a point in the demonstrations going on all over the world, but what the matter with them all crowded together, they maybe spreading this terrible virus and we might end up with another lockdown.


I don't know. A lockdown seems quite a fair price to pay for fundamental human rights for everyone.


----------



## Gemmaa

Ooh, for glasses and masks, I've been experimenting with recommended anti-fog tips, and discovered that shaving gel works better than shaving foam.
This morning I had completely clear vision 
I rub it over the lenses and then buff them up. The gel also leaves less residue than the foam.

Having the mask as flat to your face as possible also helps.

Oh, and for about £10 including postage, you can get a mask off ebay, with a filter in it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

shadowmare said:


> I don't know. A lockdown seems quite a fair price to pay for fundamental human rights for everyone.


I'm sure for anyone on a ventilator would think differently, if they could see the crowds this weekend.


----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> I saw one woman make a mask with a pair of scissors and a sock! So if you dont mind wearing a sock on your face!


What about pants?  

There are masks available with clear plastic over the mouth part so deaf people can lip read. many including myself, are worried about not being able to understand what people are saying . its actually quite frightening .


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> Depending on which ones you buy you can get them from 31p-45p for a pack of 50. I tried using a cotton mask but my glasses steamed up. They also sell a pack of 3 hand sanitisers with 75% alcohol for £6.99. www.medicalfacemask.co.uk/shop/


By the time you've added anything from £9.99 to £22.50 for shipping to me from the UK, it's cheaper to buy them in Hungary


----------



## Jobeth

Magyarmum said:


> By the time you've added anything from £9.99 to £22.50 for shipping to me from the UK, it's cheaper to buy them in Hungary


Sorry. Your post was the easiest to use to show you can get them cheaper as it showed the same masks.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> What about pants?
> 
> There are masks available with clear plastic over the mouth part so deaf people can lip read. many including myself, are worried about not being able to understand what people are saying . its actually quite frightening .


I saw those on tv and thought they were a brilliant idea, and not just for the deaf. It's hard to hear anyone who's wearing a mask unless they speak really clearly so it's very frustrating. I think I saw them on a news item where people were at a drive through covid testing centre, and they were having problems following instructions through the mask.


----------



## mrs phas

B&M reusable ones for £1.99
Packs of 10 throwaway ones for£5.00
Son now brought me two reusable ones, one each for Matt and I, for when we have hospital appointments


----------



## ForestWomble

Possibly silly question but here goes:
I had to have an electrician come to my home today, when he arrived he was wearing a mask (great), unfortunately I couldn't understand a word he was saying so he pulled it off slightly to speak to me (he was outside, I was in, had more than the 2m distance between us). I then took Bungo and myself into my bedroom and shut the door, the electrician came in, did the work, then called that he was back outside. When I opened the door I saw he wasn't wearing the mask, he explained what he'd done and left. 
Now I'm worried he didn't wear the mask while in my home, I was shut in the bedroom the whole time so we could keep distance but also meant I couldn't see what he was doing, I never heard him cough and he never spoke while inside, I know I'm probably being silly but is there any risk to me if he didn't wear his mask?


----------



## mrs phas

How we could be now, if science and sensibility had combined, rather than playing catch up

BBC News - New Zealand lifts all Covid restrictions, declaring the nation virus-free
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52961539


----------



## purringcats

59 Coronavirus related deaths reported in England in the last 24 hours and zero coronavirus related deaths reported in London. For a second day there have been no deaths reported in Scotland or Northern Ireland. I know some people say this is the weekend lull but this figure is really low.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> How we could be now, if science and sensibility had combined, rather than playing catch up
> 
> BBC News - New Zealand lifts all Covid restrictions, declaring the nation virus-free
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52961539


This is exactly why we shouldn't be comparing other countries to our own..

They had far more time to prepare, and geographically you can't compare the islands to ours either. It's not as simple saying look this country has done it, we should have done it too.

Am so glad a country is free from coronovirus and doing all it can still to protect but I will repeat you can't compare one country with another. Its been said time and time again here.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

purringcats said:


> 59 Coronavirus related deaths reported in England in the last 24 hours and zero coronavirus related deaths reported in London. For a second day there have been no deaths reported in Scotland or Northern Ireland. I know some people say this is the weekend lull but this figure is really low.


 Yes it is the weekend lull but compared to other Mondays this is good news in my opinion, obviously one death due to C-19 is one death to many but the low death rate and the decreasing new infection rate all point to going in the right direction.


----------



## MilleD

purringcats said:


> 59 Coronavirus related deaths reported in England in the last 24 hours and zero coronavirus related deaths reported in London. For a second day there have been no deaths reported in Scotland or Northern Ireland. I know some people say this is the weekend lull but this figure is really low.


It's much safer to look at the 7 day rolling average. It will go back up tomorrow or Wednesday.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> It's much safer to look at the 7 day rolling average. It will go back up tomorrow or Wednesday.


 Unfortunately it will no doubt be higher tomorrow but hopefully not as high as last Tuesday or previous Tuesdays.


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> Unfortunately it will no doubt be higher tomorrow but hopefully not as high as last Tuesday or previous Tuesdays.


Fingers crossed, and carries on like that.


----------



## rona

ForestWomble said:


> I know I'm probably being silly but is there any risk to me if he didn't wear his mask?


Very little but there is. Did he wear gloves while working?

I would wipe down anything that he may have touched that you will also have to touch over the next 3 days


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I made a couple of masks for colleagues today. One requested cat fabric


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> What about pants?
> 
> There are masks available with clear plastic over the mouth part so deaf people can lip read. many including myself, are worried about not being able to understand what people are saying . its actually quite frightening .


This is something I worry about with a partial hearing loss, I tend to lip read a lot. Take my glasses off and I can't hear a thing !


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> I made a couple of masks for colleagues today. One requested cat fabric
> 
> View attachment 441729


Do you have any ear-savers or do those not cause any discomfort ? I've made and distributed over 300 , mainly to NHS staff.







I would be happy to send you some if needed.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I don't know, I've not thought about it @SusieRainbow - I have a headband I wear for work, which the PPE masks attach to. I haven't worn a cotton face mask out in the shops or anything yet - but I am thinking we will need to very soon, hence I've made a few. I don't want to cause you any faff but if you have a couple spare, that would be nice, thank you. I will PM you - I'm obviously more than happy to pay for them and the postage. Thank you, that's really kind 

How amazing to make so many as well! I really would like to learn to crochet - but I have discovered that I don't learn well from youtube. Ahem.


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> Very little but there is. Did he wear gloves while working?
> 
> I would wipe down anything that he may have touched that you will also have to touch over the next 3 days


Not that I'm aware.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm sure for anyone on a ventilator would think differently, if they could see the crowds this weekend.


With all respect to you, there is a big difference between a fun trip to a beach and human rights. I hope this helps to explain a bit more.
https://www.joe.co.uk/comment/black-lives-matter-beach-244360


----------



## lullabydream

@SusieRainbow I have been meaning to sa. You have inspired a young 16 year old girl with additional needs to make those ear savers. I shared a picture with her mum and asked if it would be something she could do.
It took some practice going from a picture, and some googling but she's made quite a few now and has given them away to people who ask for them. Mainly carers but most have tried to pay for them, bless her.

@Mrs Funkin had my first crochet lesson by the 16 year old above.. Practicing some basics and it ended up like this








I like to call it a pixie boot! Just need to find a pixie with one leg as my OH says!
Am definitely going to keep playing around I think with the basics I think!


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Possibly silly question but here goes:
> I had to have an electrician come to my home today, when he arrived he was wearing a mask (great), unfortunately I couldn't understand a word he was saying so he pulled it off slightly to speak to me (he was outside, I was in, had more than the 2m distance between us). I then took Bungo and myself into my bedroom and shut the door, the electrician came in, did the work, then called that he was back outside. When I opened the door I saw he wasn't wearing the mask, he explained what he'd done and left.
> Now I'm worried he didn't wear the mask while in my home, I was shut in the bedroom the whole time so we could keep distance but also meant I couldn't see what he was doing, I ne
> 
> I never heard him cough and he never spoke while inside, I know I'm probably being silly but is there any risk to me if he didn't wear his mask?


I think it would be ok . If its not too late you could open all the windows and wiped down where you think he touched.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Pawscrossed said:


> With all respect to you, there is a big difference between a fun trip to a beach and human rights. I hope this helps to explain a bit more.
> https://www.joe.co.uk/comment/black-lives-matter-beach-244360


I still think it's selfish for anyone to risk their own and other peoples lives in the crowded street, not everyone was keeping to social distancing.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think it's selfish for anyone to risk their own and other peoples lives in the crowded street, not everyone was keeping to social distancing.


Neither do I. Haven't left the house for months. Still went as posted elsewhere.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think it's selfish for anyone to risk their own and other peoples lives in the crowded street, not everyone was keeping to social distancing.


no one forced anyone to be there
therefore
everyone knew the risks they were taking
hence, the only lives, at that time, that could be said to be at risk
were their own

personally i wish BJ would use it as a reason to enforce lockdown again
same as he used the idiots who crushed together in pubs clubs etc, ignoring the call for common sense, to introduce this one


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> personally i wish BJ would use it as a reason to enforce lockdown again
> same as he used the idiots who crushed together in pubs clubs etc, ignoring the call for common sense, to introduce this one


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Jobeth

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think it's selfish for anyone to risk their own and other peoples lives in the crowded street, not everyone was keeping to social distancing.


I agree with you that it's totally selfish for anyone to not socially distance whatever the reason. It risks the lives of my sister and husband (both nurses); my nephew and niece; my parents who are over 70; the police officers that have to sort out crowds at the beach/protests/street parties and their families; the families of those that have gone; those that are especially vulnerable; the workers at supermarkets when they are still not showing symptoms and they go shopping and then their children that could pass it on at school. Basically it could impact on anyone that we know and people need to make better decisions during a pandemic.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Premier League football is restarting next week and, as a Liverpool supporter, I can't wait. Really missed all live sport these last few weeks. Football's coming home. ☺

Premier League coronavirus testing: No positive results from latest tests


----------



## Siskin

The staff on the ward are very puzzled today. They always wear masks when on duty and cannot always socially distance themselves from one another as it often requires two staff to aid patients, so they are quite often working only a few inches apart from one another. It has been decreed by the powers that be within the hospital that the staff room chairs have to be 2 metres apart so that staff can distance themselves from one another when having a break.
Why and why now?


----------



## MollySmith

I'm not repeating it again on PF but I went too, and I've been on here enough for most of you know my circumstances. I _really really_ thought about it. The event had masks for everyone (gosh, everyone wanting a mask could have got one for free... I say this in jest...), lots of hand sanitiser, 2 metres apart, nobody marched, everyone kneeled and BLM were very clear in their guidance in their publicity and at the event. I've been more in danger at Sainsbury's, I mean that most sincerely, the one time I went to Sainsburys I had a panic attack and came home - I have to do my own shopping and its' the only time I leave the house, since 13 March. I agree, it's far from ideal to have mass gatherings but the reasons for it aren't either. That was clear from the link if anyone read it.


----------



## kimthecat

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Premier League football is restarting next week and, as a Liverpool supporter, I can't wait. Really missed all live sport these last few weeks. Football's coming home. ☺
> 
> Premier League coronavirus testing: No positive results from latest tests


Liverpool , my second favourite team! Snooker is back on too!



Siskin said:


> The staff on the ward are very puzzled today. They always wear masks when on duty and cannot always socially distance themselves from one another as it often requires two staff to aid patients, so they are quite often working only a few inches apart from one another. It has been decreed by the powers that be within the hospital that the staff room chairs have to be 2 metres apart so that staff can distance themselves from one another when having a break.
> Why and why now?


Bizarre !


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think it's selfish for anyone to risk their own and other peoples lives in the crowded street, not everyone was keeping to social distancing.


, If people want to risk their own lives , fair enough but they are putting others at risk .

"No new deaths from coronavirus were reported in London today by Public Health England.
This is the first time this has happened since the early days of the pandemic." London News

I wonder if they will be able to say the same in two or three weeks time.


----------



## kimthecat

Seen on Twitter . :Hilarious
I love how it's now socially acceptable to go to the bank like this.


----------



## Happy Paws2

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Premier League football is restarting next week and, as a Liverpool supporter, I can't wait. Really missed all live sport these last few weeks. Football's coming home. ☺
> 
> Premier League coronavirus testing: No positive results from latest tests


At last and the Championship a few days later, and West Brom are on the telly, OH can't wait, nor can I, I'll have a bit of piece to watch I want while his got his footy back.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Siskin said:


> The staff on the ward are very puzzled today. They always wear masks when on duty and cannot always socially distance themselves from one another as it often requires two staff to aid patients, so they are quite often working only a few inches apart from one another. It has been decreed by the powers that be within the hospital that the staff room chairs have to be 2 metres apart so that staff can distance themselves from one another when having a break.
> Why and why now?


If it's like the trust I work for, it's in response to complaints from the public about staff being seen to be too close.


----------



## Siskin

Has anyone picked up on a story doing the rounds about a mother in Coventry who sent her child to school knowing the child had covid 19? The lady in the bed opposite me who lives opposite the school has just been sent a text from a friend telling her about this, it’s supposed to have been all over the Internet. Everyone at the school is in a panic now and school has closed down


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Has anyone picked up on a story doing the rounds about a mother in Coventry who sent her child to school knowing the child had covid 19? The lady in the bed opposite me who lives opposite the school has just been sent a text from a friend telling her about this, it's supposed to have been all over the Internet. Everyone at the school is in a panic now and school has closed down


I can't find anything on Google about it.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I can't find anything on Google about it.


Neither can I. I will have to hope for more updates from the lady, trouble is she goes home tomorrow. I think we are all getting steadily better and becoming stir crazy.


----------



## Magyarmum

Only 3 new cases of Covid-19 today in Hungary. And the borders are open for travellers from Austria, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia and Germany. 

Wish the figures for the UK would hurry up and go down, because I'd like to see my family before the end of the year!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Actually “met” up with a friend at a huge country house park for a SD walk.

We each brought a flask, snack and plastic bag to sit on for a half way break.

So nice to do something sort of normal for a change.

We haven’t walked together since before Lockdown.

Thankfully, it was easy to SD from each other and anyone else who entered our orbit


----------



## lorilu

kimthecat said:


> What about pants?
> 
> There are masks available with clear plastic over the mouth part so deaf people can lip read. many including myself, are worried about not being able to understand what people are saying . its actually quite frightening .


Or bras. There are tutorials for making masks out of bra cups too.


----------



## Cully

This could be a new craze @lorilu , guessing what other peoples home made face masks are made from.


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> Or bras. There are tutorials for making masks out of bra cups too.


You can only use the left cup though.


----------



## lorilu

MilleD said:


> You can only use the left cup though.


?


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> ?


In case people think you are a right t!t.

Sorry


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> You can only use the left cup though.


Need more info!!!!


----------



## Cully

@MilleD , DOH!:Facepalm


----------



## lorilu

MilleD said:


> In case people think you are a right t!t.
> 
> Sorry



















I suspected there was a joke in it, but wasn't sure, you know..perhaps there WAS a bonafide reason!


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> In case people think you are a right t!t.
> 
> Sorry


Best post for weeks..........made me smile anyway


----------



## kimthecat

:Hilarious


----------



## Jobeth

This is a great tutorial!!



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157863890880255


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> This is a great tutorial!!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157863890880255


Love it!

You sort of knew what was coming but still hilarious!


----------



## Cully

Jobeth said:


> This is a great tutorial!!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157863890880255


Methinks it needs a little scissor work


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Results of my antibody serology are in....

.....I know, I’m keeping you in suspenders as my nan would say...

....it’s negative. No sign of Covid in me. 

I don’t know whether to be pleased or not...!


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> Results of my antibody serology are in....
> 
> .....I know, I'm keeping you in suspenders as my nan would say...
> 
> ....it's negative. No sign of Covid in me.
> 
> I don't know whether to be pleased or not...!


Well I think it's good news in the fact that what you have been doing has kept you safe.. 
To put it more in perspective am guessing you would have to look at infection rates in your area to see how it's sits in the big scheme of things if that makes sense.


----------



## lorilu

Jobeth said:


> This is a great tutorial!!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157863890880255


----------



## Sacrechat

mrs phas said:


> no one forced anyone to be there
> therefore
> everyone knew the risks they were taking
> hence, the only lives, at that time, that could be said to be at risk
> were their own


It's not just their own lives they are risking, though, it's the lives of every health care professional they come into contact with if they become sick.


----------



## mrs phas

Sacremist said:


> It's not just their own lives they are risking, though, it's the lives of every health care professional they come into contact with if they become sick.


except, as has been oft repeated on this thread, the NHS was never in crisis and there was no danger to any staff, nor was there a shortage of ppe nor ventilators 
and yes
i love eating shnozzberries and living in the land of giants too :Banghead:Banghead


----------



## Magic Waves

Well i know since day one of this covid starting people have still been sitting in groups in my close and it's like it was never announced...i'm still in quarantine myself 

It makes you totally paranoid regarding hygiene :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

I couldn't get my usual body wash. The one I got is shea butter and vanilla. Im worried im going to get attacked by a bunch of wasps when I walk the dog .


----------



## Cully




----------



## 3dogs2cats

Does anyone understand the new `bubble` guidelines? I am currently living apart from my husband and live with with my mum - who has just tested negative for C-19 im very pleased to say, I have been here since the beginning of lockdown, my husband has only been able to drop off food/items from home etc on the doorstep and more recently we have been able to sit outside 2m apart. I think the bubble idea means as a single household he will be able to join in a bubble with me and mum so he can come in the house stay as long as he likes and I can actually hug him. But I think it also means no-one else from another household can then come into the house, basically a choice of who we are going to social bubble with will have to me made? I feel really stressed and anxious about this not because I am worried about the virus being brought into the house but because of the whole picking and choosing aspect of it, does anyone else feel worried about this or have I just got it wrong?


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> Does anyone understand the new `bubble` guidelines? I am currently living apart from my husband and live with with my mum - who has just tested negative for C-19 im very pleased to say, I have been here since the beginning of lockdown, my husband has only been able to drop off food/items from home etc on the doorstep and more recently we have been able to sit outside 2m apart. I think the bubble idea means as a single household he will be able to join in a bubble with me and mum so he can come in the house stay as long as he likes and I can actually hug him. But I think it also means no-one else from another household can then come into the house, basically a choice of who we are going to social bubble with will have to me made? I feel really stressed and anxious about this not because I am worried about the virus being brought into the house but because of the whole picking and choosing aspect of it, does anyone else feel worried about this or have I just got it wrong?


If OH is living on his own, yes he can join your mum and yours household so to speak from what I understand.

It's only for those on their own or single parents

Must be a hard choice though if people have say 2 single grand parents, or parents, single adult children who do you choose?

If anyone comes down with something then you all isolate, but then even social distancing I think most would probably err on the side of caution.


----------



## Cully

I can't get my head round the continued easing of lockdown.
We have had a disturbing amount of ignoring social distancing with crowds on beaches etc, and now demo's and rioting. Throngs of people flouting the rules. It's possible we may see many more covid cases as a result.
Surely it would have made more sense to temporarily halt any further easing of lockdown and wait a few weeks until we see how it has affected the number of new cases.
It's as if the recent flouting of rules has been ignored.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lullabydream said:


> If OH is living on his own, yes he can join your mum and yours household so to speak from what I understand.
> 
> It's only for those on their own or single parents
> 
> Must be a hard choice though if people have say 2 single grand parents, or parents, single adult children who do you choose?
> 
> If anyone comes down with something then you all isolate, but then even social distancing I think most would probably err on the side of caution.


 Thank you, yes that's what I thought, as he is now living on his own he must be classed as a single household therefore can form a bubble with me and mum but I wasn't entirely sure if I was understanding correctly. I can see this bubble idea causing a lot of upset!


----------



## Magic Waves

3dogs2cats said:


> Does anyone understand the new `bubble` guidelines? I am currently living apart from my husband and live with with my mum - who has just tested negative for C-19 im very pleased to say, I have been here since the beginning of lockdown, my husband has only been able to drop off food/items from home etc on the doorstep and more recently we have been able to sit outside 2m apart. I think the bubble idea means as a single household he will be able to join in a bubble with me and mum so he can come in the house stay as long as he likes and I can actually hug him. But I think it also means no-one else from another household can then come into the house, basically a choice of who we are going to social bubble with will have to me made? I feel really stressed and anxious about this not because I am worried about the virus being brought into the house but because of the whole picking and choosing aspect of it, does anyone else feel worried about this or have I just got it wrong?


If your hubby comes to visit you and your mom that's it, that's the bubble to me it's a right load of nonsense.

I'm worried about family members coming in because for one where else have they been who could be a carrier of symptoms.


----------



## Magic Waves

Cully said:


> Surely it would have made more sense to temporarily halt any further easing of lockdown and wait a few weeks until we see how it has affected the number of new cases.


Cully i said the same identical thing tonight to my husband..the whole lot is a complete load of rubbish.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> I can't get my head round the continued easing of lockdown.
> We have had a disturbing amount of ignoring social distancing with crowds on beaches etc, and now demo's and rioting. Throngs of people flouting the rules. It's possible we may see many more covid cases as a result.
> Surely it would have made more sense to temporarily halt any further easing of lockdown and wait a few weeks until we see how it has affected the number of new cases.
> It's as if the recent flouting of rules has been ignored.


 I understand how you feel Cully, I would feel a lot happier if new infections and death rates were a lot lower than they are, however I tell myself they are getting lower despite the fact many people have been flouting the rules for weeks. I have been hearing, reading and seeing evidence of people deciding lock down was over pretty much since the beginning of may when it was leaked to the media restrictions would be lifted a little and people could go out without a reasonable excuse. The VE bank holiday filled the news with pictures of people not social distancing, we have seen crowed beaches and parks. I am living in a town that attracts tourists, everyday there are new posts on the local facebook page about crowded streets, queues where social distancing has not been adhered to, the supermarket giving up on its attempt to make people SD and basically have gone back to normal, photo after photo of the streets looking as busy as they do in the summer holidays. The protests of course are recent but if my local area is an indication of what the rest of the country has been like, and looking at the pictures in the media and social media it is, then I take a bit of comfort that despite the fact that many people aren't abiding by the rules the virus is still infecting less people every week. 
Obviously I wish the death and new infection rate was lower, a lot lower, and I don't feel confident that further lifting of restrictions are being lead by science, however the economy must get back up and running and to do that restrictions must be lifted so I have to tell myself the virus is running its course and we wont see a spike in infections - I can but be optimistic!


----------



## rona

There is so much testing now than there was when the infection rate was this low at the beginning, and people were going about their normal lives then.
Just over 1000 infections in 66million people is rather low. even if you say there is 10 times that, it's very small amount considering the amount of testing now


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> There is so much testing now than there was when the infection rate was this low at the beginning, and people were going about their normal lives then.
> Just over 1000 infections in 66million people is rather low. even if you say there is 10 times that, it's very small amount considering the amount of testing now


I just wish I could believe everything the government are telling us.


----------



## MilleD

No-one is forcing anyone to be in a bubble with anyone else remember. If you feel it isn't safe, then just don't do it.

I had an 'interesting' experience yesterday. As some of you know I've been sorting out my step dads house for sale which is over 3 hours drive away from me.

I've managed 2 trips so far, not stopped at a single service station, not come into contact with another soul.

Yesterday I was reliably informed by my sister that the key to the house was in the key safe. So up I drive, no service station stops, get there. No key. I can't tell you how slightly miffed I was. The upshot being that I had to drive into the town of Saltburn-by-Sea (lovely though it is), and park up and walk into the estate agents to get the key that they are holding.

I'm supposed to be shielding.... I had to walk past queues of people outside shops, had to ask one woman to move. I was really rather annoyed.

It made an incredibly difficult day even harder.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’d have called and asked them to bring the key to me at the property tbh


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> I'd have called and asked them to bring the key to me at the property tbh


Absolutely. After all, it was their responsibility to have it there. But I do wonder if I would have been able to think of that in time, if I were in the middle of it. 3 hour drive, not to mention without a bathroom break, I'd already be in a weird sort of whack-a-doo frame of mind.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I'd have called and asked them to bring the key to me at the property tbh


Their local branch to the house is closed so had to go further afield. I doubt they would have appreciated having to come to me. It didn't even occur to me to ask, I just knew I needed the key...


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> Absolutely. After all, it was their responsibility to have it there. But I do wonder if I would have been able to think of that in time, if I were in the middle of it. 3 hour drive, not to mention without a bathroom break, I'd already be in a weird sort of whack-a-doo frame of mind.


It wasn't their responsibility to have it there.

No, I didn't think of it


----------



## lorilu

MilleD said:


> It wasn't their responsibility to have it there.
> 
> No, I didn't think of it


ok I misunderstood


----------



## MilleD

lorilu said:


> ok I misunderstood


You're right though, I did need a wee


----------



## rona

Jobeth said:


> Depending on which ones you buy you can get them from 31p-45p for a pack of 50. I tried using a cotton mask but my glasses steamed up. They also sell a pack of 3 hand sanitisers with 75% alcohol for £6.99. www.medicalfacemask.co.uk/shop/


Thanks for this link. We've just received a box of masks from them


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Thanks for this link. We've just received a box of masks from them


You're welcome! They are really quick and don't add postage unlike some places. The aloe vera hand sanitiser with 75% alcohol is good as well.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I been worried about the 2 hospital appointments which are due soon, was it safe to go there and how I was going to get there.

Well I had a phone call yesterday and a letter this morning saying I've got a Telephone Consultation next Thursday at 3pm, so I haven't got to go there I'm so relieved I don't have to go there.

So hopefully the other appointment is going to be the same.


----------



## catz4m8z

Im getting abit annoyed that my vets still arent opening fully. I mean garden centres, shops, etc are all starting to open their doors but the vets are still apparently scared to see pets for routine things. Considering most vets are already set up for social distancing and are supposed to have a duty of care I find it strange that they cant cope with their normal workload.


----------



## Boxer123

catz4m8z said:


> Im getting abit annoyed that my vets still arent opening fully. I mean garden centres, shops, etc are all starting to open their doors but the vets are still apparently scared to see pets for routine things. Considering most vets are already set up for social distancing and are supposed to have a duty of care I find it strange that they cant cope with their normal workload.


Our vets are back to normal albeit with social distancing.


----------



## kimthecat

Our vets are doing boosters. You have to wait in car and they come out to get dog. Pay by phone.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Our vets are doing boosters. You have to wait in car and they come out to get dog. Pay by phone.


Same here, vets are pretty much open 'as normal' but doing this for social distancing as waiting room is way too small and reception desk is just to narrow.

However there is a huge wait for boosters now with a backlog to 'catch up'. Plus those minor niggles that people didn't go to the vets for lockdown, they want to be seen now. Plus normal emergencies so they are doing the best they can to give appointments.

They have opened up more on the advise of the RCVS

Although I was saddened to hear my vets have added an additional part to their message when you phone up saying that abuse from clients is not acceptable. I find that rather sad.


----------



## Dave S

It's hard to believe at times but travellers have moved into a car park of a Coronavirus testing site at Watford so they have relocated the centre to Hemel Hempstead whilst Watford Council apply for legal action to remove them.

I would suggest they get volunteers from the furloughed community, provide a burger van and drinks and let them sort it one night.


----------



## rona

Been to the Building Society for my friend this morning. First time since before lockdown started that I've set foot into a building other than home and very quick one step into my friends to deliver or pick up something.
He wanted some change and small notes to pay people who are helping him out, the lady that goes to the local shop, his gardener and any drivers that might run him to the hospital.

The woman behind the counter started as soon as I got there, that's a lot of change, why does he want all that, so I told her about the lady going to the shop..........she scoffed and said "why doesn't he get all his shopping at once".....I didn't think it was her business so just said that the lady was very old and couldn't carry it (I get his major shop)...........so........she's going on about ordering all her shopping together....Now my friend has lost his appetite and some times doesn't want to eat or needs something specific to manage to get it down,so it's good he's got someone more local than me that will get him things 
Anyway, she went on and on about this money and whingeing about having to sort it out and why he didn't get it a bit at a time.............I'd been waiting half an hour by this time listening to her........if I was a violent person I would have punched her on the nose.......so after her incessant whining and as she passed the cash to me I told her that he had terminal cancer and would probably never leave his home again.
Hope it made her think and I hope the next person who goes in for some help doesn't have to listen to that whine


----------



## rona

Infection rates are creeping up


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Been to the Building Society for my friend this morning. First time since before lockdown started that I've set foot into a building other than home and very quick one step into my friends to deliver or pick up something.
> He wanted some change and small notes to pay people who are helping him out, the lady that goes to the local shop, his gardener and any drivers that might run him to the hospital.
> 
> The woman behind the counter started as soon as I got there, that's a lot of change, why does he want all that, so I told her about the lady going to the shop..........she scoffed and said "why doesn't he get all his shopping at once".....I didn't think it was her business so just said that the lady was very old and couldn't carry it (I get his major shop)...........so........she's going on about ordering all her shopping together....Now my friend has lost his appetite and some times doesn't want to eat or needs something specific to manage to get it down,so it's good he's got someone more local than me that will get him things
> Anyway, she went on and on about this money and whingeing about having to sort it out and why he didn't get it a bit at a time.............I'd been waiting half an hour by this time listening to her........if I was a violent person I would have punched her on the nose.......so after her incessant whining and as she passed the cash to me I told her that he had terminal cancer and would probably never leave his home again.
> Hope it made her think and I hope the next person who goes in for some help doesn't have to listen to that whine


They are so used to people banking online or going in and using machines that they have forgotten what personal service is. Poor guy; glad he has some help at least.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Dave S said:


> It's hard to believe at times but travellers have moved into a car park of a Coronavirus testing site at Watford so they have relocated the centre to Hemel Hempstead whilst Watford Council apply for legal action to remove them.
> 
> I would suggest they get volunteers from the furloughed community, provide a burger van and drinks and let them sort it one night.


I don't understand why it needs a court order to remove someone occupying land/premises illegally.

"Is this your land"?

"No"

"Have you been told by the Landowner to leave"?

"Yes".

"Leave immediately".

Bring in the Police/Army to help them on their way.

Under Common Law I don't think a Court Order is required.

Not sure why these situations are still allowed to drag on.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> Our vets are doing boosters. You have to wait in car and they come out to get dog. Pay by phone.


Mine are doing boosters and emergencies but not routine things. For example they arent doing claw clipping which I need for Heidi (I know its easy for some people to do themselves but Heidi has tiny claws and fidgets like crazy...Im scared I'll injure her and then not be able get a vet appt coz it wont be an emergency!) also I would like to get Hannahs eye looked at as she has a possible skin tag/growth but again...its not an emergency.
I know a friend is having a huge hassle as well with a cat who has a massive wound that broke down (then he chewed his leg down to the tendon as well) but she cant even talk to the vet about it.



rona said:


> Infection rates are creeping up


Thats in the south west isnt it?? Does that mean infection rates really are rising or are they behind the curve and now catching up??


----------



## ForestWomble

catz4m8z said:


> Mine are doing boosters and emergencies but not routine things. For example they arent doing claw clipping which I need for Heidi (I know its easy for some people to do themselves but Heidi has tiny claws and fidgets like crazy...Im scared I'll injure her and then not be able get a vet appt coz it wont be an emergency!) also I would like to get Hannahs eye looked at as she has a possible skin tag/growth but again...its not an emergency.
> I know a friend is having a huge hassle as well with a cat who has a massive wound that broke down (then he chewed his leg down to the tendon as well) but she cant even talk to the vet about it.
> 
> *Thats in the south west isnt it?? Does that mean infection rates really are rising or are they behind the curve and now catching up??*


In my part of the south west we were doing really well until 'travel anywhere' was allowed and we had ridiculous amounts of people coming down spreading the virus


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> claw clipping which I need for Heidi


Can you find a local groomer, more and more are managing to open. 
Many do claw clipping as part of their job as one offs and usually still can fit this in with social distancing. My own groomer who has always had a one in one out policy but only is a small dog groomer anyway.. Albeit some poo crosses have grown well above small than their owners expected has been inundated with requests.. She has managed to fit a few in, not all because obviously doesn't want to increase exposure and also it increases time between clients. Those she can't do she's passed on recommendations to other groomers who may be able to help, as the vets are snowed under but are trying their best here and at the end of the day, overgrown claws are a welfare issue.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I know for the south west the infection rate was 0.7 - 0.9, but today I think its 0.8 - 1.1! That's quite a % increase in a short time. 

But I'm not surprised. I'm south to south west and people are everywhere. It's hard to find a quiet place, and even in places like the tesco garage, which used to have pumps blocked off, have now taken away the blocks so now you can be pumping petrol less than a meter from someone else.
We went for a walk down by the river, which if you keep to one side when someone is going the other way theres plenty of distance, but as my and my OH walked single file the 2 women kept in the centre of the path :Rage


----------



## kimthecat

Just thinking how apt the theme tune to Not Going Out is. 

We're not going out;

Not staying in;

Just running around with my head in a spin;

But there is no need to scream and shout;

We're not going out;

We are not going out.


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> I know for the south west the infection rate was 0.7 - 0.9, but today I think its 0.8 - 1.1! That's quite a % increase in a short time.
> 
> But I'm not surprised. I'm south to south west and people are everywhere. It's hard to find a quiet place, and even in places like the tesco garage, which used to have pumps blocked off, have now taken away the blocks so now you can be pumping petrol less than a meter from someone else.
> We went for a walk down by the river, which if you keep to one side when someone is going the other way theres plenty of distance, but as my and my OH walked single file the 2 women kept in the centre of the path :Rage


Oddly, here in North Sussex, things seem to have settled a little, I think more people are getting back to work and the unfit who were going out are now socializing in their gardens with smelly BBQs or heading to coastal towns. The countryside is freeing up, well except for Knepp, where an historic moment is drawing far too many people. 
Shopping starts Monday, taking even more people out of the countryside 
The traffic is far less as we don't have the 1million people heading for Gatwick every day 

If you don't go into shops and don't need any kind of health care, things are much pleasanter around here now, more so than before Covid too. The air is still fresher and noise is much reduced


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Just thinking how apt the theme tune to Not Going Out is.
> 
> We're not going out;
> 
> Not staying in;
> 
> Just running around with my head in a spin;
> 
> But there is no need to scream and shout;
> 
> We're not going out;
> 
> We are not going out.


I thought that a couple of weeks back.

Lockdown Theme.


----------



## Magyarmum

My son and family live near Falmouth in Cornwall where he says the holiday season is in full swing!

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/c...p754VqG0r0wCbnmWqmM6smlbiqX2dSre-rzEYvntEDLjk

*New Office for National Statistics map shows coronavirus death hotspots in Cornwall*


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> Mine are doing boosters and emergencies but not routine things. For example they arent doing claw clipping which I need for Heidi (I know its easy for some people to do themselves but Heidi has tiny claws and fidgets like crazy...Im scared I'll injure her and then not be able get a vet appt coz it wont be an emergency!) also I would like to get Hannahs eye looked at as she has a possible skin tag/growth but again...its not an emergency.
> I know a friend is having a huge hassle as well with a cat who has a massive wound that broke down (then he chewed his leg down to the tendon as well) but she cant even talk to the vet about it.
> 
> Thats in the south west isnt it?? Does that mean infection rates really are rising or are they behind the curve and now catching up??


My vets are now doing vaccs and also catching up on non-emergency work.
They're allowing one person to accompany pet in for the consultation, with conditions.
Wear face covering
Use hand gel, supplied, on the way in
Remove additional items e.g. coats, bandanas from dog, just newspaper inside cat carrier
Maintain social distancing.

I'm in the Midlands


----------



## rona

For the last three days the number of positive tests have gone up by about 150+. I was hoping that it was because they were doing more tests or was an anomaly, but looks more and more on the way up


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> For the last three days the number of positive tests have gone up by about 150+. I was hoping that it was because they were doing more tests or was an anomaly, but looks more and more on the way up


Did you mind so much when those 150 plus many more who tested negative couldn't get tested at all? Does the R number for the South West region really bother you when it's admitted it's down to one known outbreak in a known location and as new infections decrease it's an ever more meaningless figure, especially when it's only a best guess.

Things are actually getting better.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Did you mind so much when those 150 plus many more who tested negative couldn't get tested at all? Does the R number for the South West region really bother you when it's admitted it's down to one known outbreak in a known location and as new infections decrease it's an ever more meaningless figure, especially when it's only a best guess.
> 
> Things are actually getting better.


I have been telling my very fearful friend that because of testing, he is much safer now than when he was going about before lockdown. So much so that he has agreed to go to an hospital appointment that he was terrified to go to.

The fact remains, that the infection figure has climbed for 3 days straight, and while this isn't of any particular concern yet, with the behaviour I've seen out and about, it may be of concern again soon.
No good burying our heads in the sand and saying it's all good. 
Hospital admissions also rose yesterday for the first time since the peak


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH actually joined Jack and me for a short stroll round the playing field behind our house yesterday.

It's a vast open area so we were able to maintain our distance from the few other people over there.

Up to now he's literally been pacing up and down the garden. Lucky we have it, of course, but good to get him out into the World, albeit in small (safe) steps.

Like your friend @rona, he's still very nervous about going out there.

Later we went for a drive, had a brief SD chat with MIL then sat in the car in a lay-by eating chips I bought in the village chippy (who had a great SD system going).

Such simple things, but nice to feel almost "normal" (and the chips were yummy!)


----------



## havoc

I understand the fear but the most dangerous time was surely the couple of weeks prior to lockdown. As things are relaxed the infection rate will probably climb but we’re all able to protect ourselves to whatever level we choose. I certainly have no plans to start spending my days wandering round shops just because they’re open. It isn’t mandatory to start taking more risk.


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> OH actually joined Jack and me for a short stroll round the playing field behind our house yesterday.
> 
> It's a vast open area so we were able to maintain our distance from the few other people over there.
> 
> Up to now he's literally been pacing up and down the garden. Lucky we have it, of course, but good to get him out into the World, albeit in small (safe) steps.
> 
> Like your friend @rona, he's still very nervous about going out there.
> 
> Later we went for a drive, had a brief SD chat with MIL then sat in the car in a lay-by eating chips I bought in the village chippy (who had a great SD system going).
> 
> Such simple things, but nice to feel almost "normal" (and the chips were yummy!)


I met up with my sister and her son and her grandson at a local large park . We social distanced. Ive hardly seen her grandson. He is 4 and on the autistic spectrum . It a little while for him to come round and it was good to hear him talk more. he liked the doggies. Bless him.

@havoc Im not shopping either but i am supposed to have blood test every threes months . Well over due but still a bit nervous about going to the local doctors to have it done. No way am i going to a hospital yet.


----------



## kimthecat

I dont know whats happening about my holiday in July . Not heard anything . I wont be too upset if it doesn't happen , By this this time of the year , Im desperate to get away from the area but due to lock down , its been so quiet and friendly , I dont feel the need to go .


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> @havoc Im not shopping either but i am supposed to have blood test every threes months . Well over due but still a bit nervous about going to the local doctors to have it done. No way am i going to a hospital yet.


I believe outpatients departments are being careful and I'd not be so worried about the GP if they're running things right. Other NHS staff I'd be very worried about having contact with in or out of a hospital. Apparently they reckon over 20% of infections are through hospital staff because they don't socially distance. I don't mean while attending to patients, it's between themselves while at work. I know this to be true in at least one hospital because my neighbour works there and has commented that there's no social distancing between staff within the hospital. Guessing there may be now.


----------



## mrs phas

Am in our local a n e (20 miles away) with Matt right now
We think he has a dislocated little finger, whole hand like a balloon, all of mine have mild to moderate self dislocating joints
Lots of social distancing going on, masks and gloves available for all, cleaner circling wiping all seats down, constantly, only every third or fourth seat being used
I'm allowed to sit with Matt, because of his MH problems, but otherwise, only patient allowed, or if a child, one parent only
Also nurse on door, before reception, doing very quick triage, and deciding if it's actually an a n e need, or can wait for GP
Very efficient and quick

Edit cos of fat fingers


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> Also nurse on door, before reception, doing very quick triage, and deciding if it's actually an a n e need, or can wait for GP
> Very efficient and quick


That's a feature I wouldn't mind them keeping forever.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> That's a feature I wouldn't mind them keeping forever.


Me too, 
Accident
and
Emergency
not
Too much to drink on a Saturday night
or
I can't get a Dr appointment for a month, to see to this boil on my bum


----------



## kimthecat

There been an increase of people testing positive in beijing. They have shut down the markets and closing areas. 

I feel such an idiot. The dogs were barking earlier at front door. i couldn't see anyone through the glass so i opened it and looked out and a gardener was standing at the side gate close to the front door and he asked if I wanted my tree pruned. I was so surprised to see him that I said , no but give me your card as it will need to be done later in the year, so I took the card from him and then remembered I'm social isolating , social distance etc .  It just went right out of my head.
I felt sorry for him as he seemed pretty desperate .


----------



## Siskin

Had an email from a friend who lives on Vancouver Island in Canada. They seem to be about the same as us with what’s going on socially and the gradual relaxing of lockdown. She also commented that everyone is afraid to visit hospitals, clinics and doctors which are probabaly the most clean areas there are, yet are going shopping without a worry. Her husband had to have a CT scan and was in and out again in 20 minutes.


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> There been an increase of people testing positive in beijing. They have shut down the markets and closing areas.
> 
> I feel such an idiot. The dogs were barking earlier at front door. i couldn't see anyone through the glass so i opened it and looked out and a gardener was standing at the side gate close to the front door and he asked if I wanted my tree pruned. I was so surprised to see him that I said , no but give me your card as it will need to be done later in the year, so I took the card from him and then remembered I'm social isolating , social distance etc .  It just went right out of my head.
> I felt sorry for him as he seemed pretty desperate .


That sort of thing is unlikely to be a real danger. You weren't in an enclosed space and your 'contact' was for a few seconds rather than face to face for any significant time.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> I certainly have no plans to start spending my days wandering round shops just because they're open. It isn't mandatory to start taking more risk.


If it was just me and OH, we can live in our own little bubble, getting everything delivered and only going out to walk, Kayak and work, which is outside too. However, with my friend to look after I'm having to do things like go into the building society, and tomorrow I may have to enter a vets surgery. Not my choice but what can you do?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

kimthecat said:


> I met up with my sister and her son and her grandson at a local large park . We social distanced. Ive hardly seen her grandson. He is 4 and on the autistic spectrum . It a little while for him to come round and it was good to hear him talk more. he liked the doggies. Bless him.
> 
> @havoc Im not shopping either but i am supposed to have blood test every threes months . Well over due but still a bit nervous about going to the local doctors to have it done. No way am i going to a hospital yet.


It is probably better to go to your GP for blood test now while they are still operating under restrictions, My mums GP practice from what I understand still has it doors locked so no one, unless invited, can enter. Most people are getting phone consultations just a few that get asked to come in, you have to ring them from outside to say you are here, a nurse takes your temperature then you are taken straight into the doctor. The GP surgery here doesn't take bloods, for that people go to the little community hospital and they to are currently operating on a strict appointment only, before it was sit and wait. It is safer to go to GP/ Hospital now because very soon I think they will open the doors have patients back in the waiting rooms.


----------



## lullabydream

3dogs2cats said:


> It is probably better to go to your GP for blood test now while they are still operating under restrictions, My mums GP practice from what I understand still has it doors locked so no one, unless invited, can enter. Most people are getting phone consultations just a few that get asked to come in, you have to ring them from outside to say you are here, a nurse takes your temperature then you are taken straight into the doctor. The GP surgery here doesn't take bloods, for that people go to the little community hospital and they to are currently operating on a strict appointment only, before it was sit and wait. It is safer to go to GP/ Hospital now because very soon I think they will open the doors have patients back in the waiting rooms.


I had a sit and wait hospital appointment at a County hospital because our small town hospital can't offer social distancing. I went early, don't know if it was a good or bad thing, only 'patients' allowed in. Seats to wait all social distanced as the larger waiting areas allowed this, whereas my tiny local hospital it wouldn't. Some were prebooked appointments, some were sent like me via GPS to go when you want.
Even though 'face coverings' aren't mandatory till Monday never saw a patient without one.


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> If it was just me and OH, we can live in our own little bubble, getting everything delivered and only going out to walk, Kayak and work, which is outside too. However, with my friend to look after I'm having to do things like go into the building society, and tomorrow I may have to enter a vets surgery. Not my choice but what can you do?


I've had to queue for the post office and stuff like that but I consider it low risk. It isn't something I do daily or for a long time. More than anything I resent having to drive into town to do so because my local PO stopped functioning.

I don't get het up about people meeting in parks either, not with what I've seen going on in private property. Barbecues and other gatherings have continued all around me. I've realised those who have remained working don't have the same attitude to social distancing except for others - this includes nhs staff (not necessarily medical) council employees, police and prison officers. Their daily 'norm' is different from those in lockdown so they have something of a Cummings attitude.


----------



## Siskin

Forgot to add. The hospital I’m in as of Monday has new rules. Masks must be worn by everyone all the time whilst in the hospital. As staff come in onto their shift there will be someone at the door who will take their temperature and masks handed out. I presume patients coming in will have their temperature taken on entry, masks have been issued to patients the moment they step foot into the hospital for at least a month, probably longer, only going on my experience.
Why do I keep thinking that it should have like this since lockdown.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lullabydream said:


> I had a sit and wait hospital appointment at a County hospital because our small town hospital can't offer social distancing. I went early, don't know if it was a good or bad thing, only 'patients' allowed in. Seats to wait all social distanced as the larger waiting areas allowed this, whereas my tiny local hospital it wouldn't. Some were prebooked appointments, some were sent like me via GPS to go when you want.
> Even though 'face coverings' aren't mandatory till Monday never saw a patient without one.


 I think because community hospital is so small they have had to implement the `by appointment only` for blood tests. They finish blood test strictly at 11am because the courier comes before midday to collect them, in normal times this makes the waiting room very busy and there is no way they could SD. Its easy to have an by appointment system here because unless you happen to have a GP appointment early in the morning no one gets same gets same day blood test anyway and sometimes if it was very busy people might not even get it done the following day. I`m not sure how long they will be able to keep this appointment system going though.


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> Although I was saddened to hear my vets have added an additional part to their message when you phone up saying that abuse from clients is not acceptable. I find that rather sad.


How awful that they had to add that! People are unbelievable aren't they? I work for a small municipality. Our building is still closed to the public, though we are in there working. There are signs posted on every door that we are closed, but we still get people pounding on the door or even the window when they see me in my office. I had a guy the other morning, he wouldn't leave and wouldn't leave. I was just going to get my boss when he finally gave up.

They also accost us in the parking lot. In normal times we don't park in the municipal building's parking lot, we have to park in a public lot, our lot is small and for customers only. But since we aren't open, we can park there for right now. And they will sit out there and wait for someone to come out and try to force us to take their utility payments that way. We are not allowed to handle anything that hasn't been put through the sanitizing process first (and this includes our own employees), and do not take payments in parking lots. All that effort, that guy the other day, it would have taken him half as long to simply drop the payment in the mail. It's insane.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Forgot to add. The hospital I'm in as of Monday has new rules. Masks must be worn by everyone all the time whilst in the hospital. As staff come in onto their shift there will be someone at the door who will take their temperature and masks handed out. I presume patients coming in will have their temperature taken on entry, masks have been issued to patients the moment they step foot into the hospital for at least a month, probably longer, only going on my experience.
> Why do I keep thinking that it should have like this since lockdown.


its for every hospital, staff, outpatients and visitors across the country as of Monday

Matt has an avulsion fracture of the right hand side, of his right hand
other than the fact we know he will get a call from fracture clinic tomorrow ( they told us that)
they are still conflabing on what to do, if/how to send him home, as it is displaced
4 patients in waiting area, plus ambulance admissions of course
4hrs and counting

Edit to add, in case anyone thinks i am, im not moaning about the wait, we know whats wrong, and, its not life threatening
others may not be so lucky


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Forgot to add. The hospital I'm in as of Monday has new rules. Masks must be worn by everyone all the time whilst in the hospital. As staff come in onto their shift there will be someone at the door who will take their temperature and masks handed out. I presume patients coming in will have their temperature taken on entry, masks have been issued to patients the moment they step foot into the hospital for at least a month, probably longer, only going on my experience.
> Why do I keep thinking that it should have like this since lockdown.


We have something similar at work. (not a hospital) We've been given a little daily check sheet. The first version asked many invasive questions and there was some protest (including by myself) so it's been cut down a bit. I suspect the union got involved. We are required to take and record our temperature both upon entering work (or at home before coming to work) and 12 hours later at home. And check off a list, which as I said has been cut down to two lines instead of ten. ("no change in condition" or "changed").

We can use our own home thermometer or the building's "temperature station". I haven't seen that yet. How on earth do they allow people to all use the same thermometer like that? Is someone standing there spraying it down between uses? I don't know. I take my temp at home. It's usually a reassuring 97 F.


----------



## mrs phas

lorilu said:


> We can use our own home thermometer or the building's "temperature station". I haven't seen that yet. How on earth do they allow people to all use the same thermometer like that? Is someone standing there spraying it down between uses? I don't know. I take my temp at home. It's usually a reassuring 97 F.


they dont have a point and shoot thermometer ?


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> they dont have a point and shoot thermometer ?


The type they use on the ward is the one that's put in the ear with a removable tip, a new one is put on for each patient.
When I had my knee replacement surgery nearly three years ago they used the point and shoot type. Are they as accurate?


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> The type they use on the ward is the one that's put in the ear with a removable tip, a new one is put on for each patient.
> When I had my knee replacement surgery nearly three years ago they used the point and shoot type. Are they as accurate?


for general public purposes i would think so
but
maybe not for in hospital
bit like general masks and n95 masks
our hospital has the swipe across forehead and behind ear ones
new cover for each person


----------



## lorilu

mrs phas said:


> they dont have a point and shoot thermometer ?


I don't know, I haven't done it at work. I never heard of that, but if it's a thing, perhaps that is what they have. Communication between the PTBs and the rest of us is poor at the best of times. They wouldn't think to actually explain how the "temperature station" works.



Siskin said:


> The type they use on the ward is the one that's put in the ear with a removable tip, a new one is put on for each patient.
> When I had my knee replacement surgery nearly three years ago they used the point and shoot type. Are they as accurate?


That's what I was picturing and it seemed pretty gross way to do it to me.


----------



## Siskin

There was talk yesterday amongst the staff that patients would start to be allowed visitors towards the end of the month, I didn’t get the details exactly but it sounded a bit convoluted. All I could think of was that I would probably be safely at home by the time it started


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> There was talk yesterday amongst the staff that patients would start to be allowed visitors towards the end of the month, I didn't get the details exactly but it sounded a bit convoluted. All I could think of was that I would probably be safely at home by the time it started


hopefully, its not just c-19 you have to worry about when visitors start re-emerging
its all the bugs thats on their clothes too


----------



## lorilu

(have to get rid of a saved post that was not used)


----------



## kimthecat

@3dogs2cats Good point. Will contact them this week.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. I took a friend to hospital for appointment. He had his temperature checked, with a point and shoot, but I didn’t. Odd. 2/3rds of chairs were taped off and only 1 person allowed to accompany the patient. Things ran very smoothly, actually better than normal. 

I had bloods done at gps. Apart from masks and distancing it was the same as ever.


----------



## karenmc

I couldn't believe what I read this morning. Large crowds of people gathered in a country park about 20mins from us and another area in Manchester and held 'Coronavirus raves'. There were pics on FB showing the grounds of the park absolutely covered in litter. I can't believe how people can act so irresponsibly during this pandemic and also leave all that mess for others to clean up too.


----------



## havoc

karenmc said:


> I couldn't believe what I read this morning. Large crowds of people gathered in a country park about 20mins from us and another area in Manchester and held 'Coronavirus raves'. There were pics on FB showing the grounds of the park absolutely covered in litter. I can't believe how people can act so irresponsibly during this pandemic and also leave all that mess for others to clean up too.


That's what happens when you have people cooped up for three months and then a story hits the headlines showing the rules don't apply to everyone. All politics aside, any respect for lockdown and a huge amount of compliance ended at that point. Add in how ridiculous some of the things we've been told have been and an ever increasing number now completely ignore anything given out at those ridiculous press briefings.

Have to say - I'm more concerned about a rape and stabbings than I am the litter issue.


----------



## mrs phas

karenmc said:


> I couldn't believe what I read this morning. Large crowds of people gathered in a country park about 20mins from us and another area in Manchester and held 'Coronavirus raves'. There were pics on FB showing the grounds of the park absolutely covered in litter. I can't believe how people can act so irresponsibly during this pandemic and also leave all that mess for others to clean up too.


one person died 
a woman was raped
and several taken to hospital between these two raves


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> There been an increase of people testing positive in beijing. They have shut down the markets and closing areas.


From a contaminated salmon apparently.
This food market provides most of the food to Beijing and has now been shut down for the time being.


----------



## karenmc

havoc said:


> That's what happens when you have people cooped up for three months and then a story hits the headlines showing the rules don't apply to everyone. All politics aside, any respect for lockdown and a huge amount of compliance ended at that point. Add in how ridiculous some of the things we've been told have been and an ever increasing number now completely ignore anything given out at those ridiculous press briefings.
> 
> Have to say - I'm more concerned about a rape and stabbings than I am the litter issue.


I know it's awful.


----------



## karenmc

mrs phas said:


> one person died
> a woman was raped
> and several taken to hospital between these two raves


Yes it's terrible to hear.


----------



## havoc

It is awful, of course it is. Unfortunately it isn't a surprise. I think these things are hitting us even harder because we've all been cocooned for so long and for much of that the news has been concentrating so much on the virus. The world is still full of the full range of humans some of whom aren't very nice.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> The type they use on the ward is the one that's put in the ear with a removable tip, a new one is put on for each patient.
> When I had my knee replacement surgery nearly three years ago they used the point and shoot type. Are they as accurate?


I don't like point and shoot thermometers.. They aren't accurate and temperature needs to be accurate. I remember a paramedic saying to me that they are as about as useful as a chocolate fireguard..

I did wonder if they had improved in a couple of years but I think the answer is no.. Seen you tubers try and use them giving terrible results that you may as well use the ear thermometers or even the mouth ones in hospital settings as you still have to be close. Mouth thermometers in hospitals also have a sheath on to protect, but of course in Covid-19 ear thermometers are the way to go due to respiratory particles.

Accuracy is so important with temperature and especially as some high temperatures with Covid-19 aren't specifically 'high' that the patient knowingly has a temperature so why people are wanting to take temps in the first place.

That being said.. Temperature is only one of the 4 symptoms we in the UK are told to look out for. Not everyone will have a temperature initially.


----------



## purringcats

mrs phas said:


> one person died
> a woman was raped
> and several taken to hospital between these two raves


There was 3 people stabbed as well.
It is absolutely terrible.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/breaking-young-woman-raped-man-18418671

We are still not through this virus and it could quite easily spike again with people acting like this.


----------



## shadowmare

havoc said:


> That's what happens when you have people cooped up for three months and then a story hits the headlines showing the rules don't apply to everyone. All politics aside, any respect for lockdown and a huge amount of compliance ended at that point. Add in how ridiculous some of the things we've been told have been and an ever increasing number now completely ignore anything given out at those ridiculous press briefings.
> 
> Have to say - I'm more concerned about a rape and stabbings than I am the litter issue.


The raves were already taking place throughout end of May. It's just that they went "unnoticed". There was a big one outside of liverpool 1st or 2nd June that was reported after people found all the litter left behind. Unfortunately these are the people who didn't care much about restrictions right from the start. Plenty of DJs were organising live streaming parties throughout lockdown and all types of party people stuck to that. But there's always a section of people who feel more exceptional than others...


----------



## havoc

shadowmare said:


> But there's always a section of people who feel more exceptional than others...


That's everyone I know. Honestly, I know of only one family who have stayed completely within the rules and in their case it involved continuing to work and no drop in income so not much change to endure.


----------



## MollySmith

Not sure where to post this but an interesting article on why the "nature is healing" because of the pandemic isn't always true and broken food chains such as less cars, less roadkill for some species. 
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2043820620933859?af=R&ai=1gvoi&mi=3ricys&


----------



## MollySmith

Second wave in Beijing. For the first time I have thought, it's not climate change that will end humanity though I think it contributes, I feel like we will implode and turn in on each other. We have people unable to exercise any self control including leaders. It's horribly frightening.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1272279691093700608


----------



## SbanR

MollySmith said:


> Second wave in Beijing. For the first time I have thought, it's not climate change that will end humanity though I think it contributes, I feel like we will implode and turn in on each other. We have people unable to exercise any self control including leaders. It's horribly frightening.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1272279691093700608


Apparently the virus is the European variety, from imported frozen salmon.
So the virus survives better in colder temps.
Will see if I can find the article and copy it (I'm a tech idiot)


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> it's not climate change that will end humanity though I think it contributes.


TBH I think its all interconnected really. Just look at how many pandemics in recent years have developed from either wild animals in markets or factory farming. Then the whole factory farming thing contributes to climate change. It all needs to stop but sadly the people in charge dont care about the big picture.

I was surprised to see so many people queueing outside Primark today, bearing in mind I had gone in for the 7-7.30 NHS shopping slot at Sainsbury. One lady sensibly brought her own stool!LOL:Smuggrin
Are people that desperate for cheap shoddy clothing though??


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> *I was surprised to see so many people queueing outside Primark today,* bearing in mind I had gone in for the 7-7.30 NHS shopping slot at Sainsbury. One lady sensibly brought her own stool!LOL:Smuggrin
> Are people that desperate for cheap shoddy clothing though??


I can't believe people are that desperate to go to the shops, they spoke to someone in a queue this morning saying they didn't want anything just wanted to have a browse around.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Happy Paws2 said:


> I can't believe people are that desperate to go to the shops, they spoke to someone in a queue this morning saying they didn't want anything just wanted to have a browser around.


I think people just had enough of sitting and waiting.

They want it all to be normal.

Even if just to delude yourself.
Might be way of coping with stress.

We are so used to retail therapy...


----------



## catz4m8z

cheekyscrip said:


> We are so used to retail therapy...


Honestly its weird for me how little its changed my shopping habits! I always put off going shopping in town until I absolutely had to, hate to browse and try to avoid other people where possible.
The only real difference for me is that I cant do my grocery shopping online anymore.


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> The only real difference for me is that I cant do my grocery shopping online anymore.


May I ask why not?


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> Honestly its weird for me how little its changed my shopping habits!


I thought it hadn't changed mine but it has and not for the better. Yesterday I ordered stationery and weedkiller from Amazon. Those are things where the money would have gone to local business in the past but I really can't be bothered to queue to get into a shop and then find it might not even have what I want. I'd rather wait 24 hours and have it delivered to the door. Much as I'm not particularly proud of myself for it things will have to be a lot more like the old normal for me to shop as I used to.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> May I ask why not?


There are never any slots available for the regular folk!



havoc said:


> I thought it hadn't changed mine but it has and not for the better. Yesterday I ordered stationery and weedkiller from Amazon. Those are things where the money would have gone to local business in the past but I really can't be bothered to queue to get into a shop and then find it might not even have what I want.


Ive always bought stuff online rather then in shops...so no change for me! Although TBF my high street is mostly charity shops, pawn shops and boarded up windows.


----------



## havoc

cheekyscrip said:


> I think people just had enough of sitting and waiting.
> 
> They want it all to be norma


I can understand that and I don't think it's unreasonable. We've now had three months where the vast majority of the population who are at low risk of any real problems with the virus have been prepared to comply with previously unthinkable restrictions for the benefit of others. It's easy to point at those who have pushed the boundaries but in the main just about everyone has lived a restricted life to some extent. It can't continue forever.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> There are never any slots available for the regular folk!


That's tough. I've not had too much difficulty with Morrisons but that might have been because I had a delivery already booked when it all kicked off. I've been able to book another after each delivery, maybe not exactly when I'd have wanted but not too far removed and it isn't as though I've had other plans.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> TBH I think its all interconnected really. Just look at how many pandemics in recent years have developed from either wild animals in markets or factory farming. Then the whole factory farming thing contributes to climate change. It all needs to stop but sadly the people in charge dont care about the big picture.
> 
> I was surprised to see so many people queueing outside Primark today, bearing in mind I had gone in for the 7-7.30 NHS shopping slot at Sainsbury. One lady sensibly brought her own stool!LOL:Smuggrin
> Are people that desperate for cheap shoddy clothing though??


*The Daily Mash*

*Thousands of naked people queue for Primark as their cheap shit clothes fell apart weeks ago*
15th June 2020








*PRIMARK branches around England are besieged by naked Primark customers whose crappy clothing fell apart a fortnight into lockdown. *

Queues of nude cheapskates stretch for almost a mile, with customers desperate to get inside and cover their nakedness for the month the stitching lasts out.

Susan Traherne of Ashton-under-Lyne said: "My whole wardrobe's Primark, or it was. There's nothing left but a few rags that dissolve into handfuls of threads when you touch them.

"Neither I nor any of the rest of the family has worn clothes since March. It's like the garden of Eden round ours. Mainly we've got away with it, though clap for the NHS was always awkward.

"I can't wait to pull a new cardigan over my shoulders and revel in its warm embrace until the seams begin to split and the sleeves unravel. That 20 minutes will be so sweet."

Primark has confirmed that changing rooms will be closed and clothes cannot be tried on, because there is little chance they would survive the experience.


----------



## Jobeth

I've avoided the shops since March but had to pick up medication from the chemist. A man put on a face mask to go in and then took it off to speak before coughing. I was just relived that only 3 people were allowed in so I was the furthest away.

@catz4m8z You should register with Iceland. I've not needed to use them but they send daily emails with available slots.


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=283483182798036


----------



## Siskin

I can’t understand why anyone would go into a shop and clothes shop at the moment. You can’t handle stuff, hold it up against you, look in the mirror and see how the colour suits you, and most all you can’t try it on. May as well order on line.
I’ve lost so much weight that I’ve no idea what size I am now. I haven’t got much now that fits me rather then swamps me particularly with trousers, I will have to order a variety of sizes online and see what fits.


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> TBH I think its all interconnected really. Just look at how many pandemics in recent years have developed from either wild animals in markets or factory farming. Then the whole factory farming thing contributes to climate change. It all needs to stop but sadly the people in charge dont care about the big picture.
> 
> I was surprised to see so many people queueing outside Primark today, bearing in mind I had gone in for the 7-7.30 NHS shopping slot at Sainsbury. One lady sensibly brought her own stool!LOL:Smuggrin
> Are people that desperate for cheap shoddy clothing though??


Yes that's true. I think - well I know - I hit the wall this weekend in terms of mental resilience. I found everything this weekend on the news so bloody awful and felt low this morning.

But yes, I agree, climate change contributes, we're largely so unaware of provenance of our food. The Primark queues are astonishing. I know kids grow so I guess there's a need for clothing but I had no idea they were not online but even that, with the ethics of where clothes are made, fast fashion etc, pretty much sums up that all these memes and high ideals of humans changing behaviours are far far from universal. Ditto Mcdonalds, there's been a traffic jam at the one in Cambridge.

I'm like you btw, I can't get a slot for shopping, not aided that I don't use supermarkets much in the past so I'm hardly a loyal customer! We've been fortunate with our local suppliers though. I got excited by asparagus the other week so I'm not probably the person the media turn to for shopping data....


----------



## MollySmith

Probably also worth saying that Primark fair rather badly in the Ethical consumer reports on staff welfare and treatment of workers. They are owned by Associated British Foods whose cotton sourcing report by Heals concluded:

_According to Anti-Slavery international (ASI) website viewed by Ethical Consumer in August 2018, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were two of the world's largest exporters of cotton, and every year their governments forcibly mobilised over one million citizens to grow and harvest cotton. Due to the high proportion of cotton likely to have come from Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan and the prevalence of forced labour in its production, the company lost half a mark in the Workers Rights category.
_​Oxfam have awarded Primark and ABF a low scorecard
_In August 2016 Ethical Consumer viewed the most recent "Behind the Brands" scorecard produced by Oxfam, part of its GROW campaign which evaluated the world's top ten most powerful food and beverage companies. The campaign aimed to challenge the companies to begin a "race to the top" to improve their social and environmental performance. Associated British Foods was ranked ninth out of ten companies in the scorecard. Overall the company scored 25 out of 70 and was rated as being "poor" by Oxfam._​
So if one is thinking of shopping there and is concerned about slavery then it's worth noting who does what.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/company-profile/primark (I have a subscription to view the above)
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/fas...-sacks-hundreds-workers-demanding-living-wage


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> I'm like you btw, I can't get a slot for shopping, not aided that I don't use supermarkets much in the past so I'm hardly a loyal customer! We've been fortunate with our local suppliers though.


TBH its not a huge problem...Ive just gone back to my trusty shopping trolley like I used before internet grocery shopping was a thing! Only annoying thing is some vegan bits are only available in the bigger supermarkets and I CBA walking over 4-5 miles for a block of cheese!LOL:Shy

ok, so my mind is still boggled by the shopaholics (I mean we still had the internet these 2 months...we could have shopped there!) but Im coming round. The economy is in the toilet so get out there you buyers of tat and rubbish!! Save our economy!!:Woot


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I can't understand why anyone would go into a shop and clothes shop at the moment. You can't handle stuff, hold it up against you, look in the mirror and see how the colour suits you, and most all you can't try it on. May as well order on line.
> I've lost so much weight that I've no idea what size I am now. I haven't got much now that fits me rather then swamps me particularly with trousers, I will have to order a variety of sizes online and see what fits.


I've never brought clothes on-line before as been tall and only use to buy from M&S as I could get my length, now they have closed my nearest store and I don't really like the things anymore anyway. So over the last few months I've been looking around on-line and brought 2 skirts and 3 tops and a cardigan and they all fit so that's how I'm going to shop in the future.


----------



## cheekyscrip

First masked and glowed shopping in Spain.

The essentials: dog food, fish supplies, cat supplies...

Now waiting ...

Didn’t even go to bookshop!


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> *PRIMARK branches around England are besieged by naked Primark customers whose crappy clothing fell apart a fortnight into lockdown. *


Nice. Luckily for me I have a choice. I don't have to shop for cheap rubbish and I can afford other forms of entertainment and amusement other than wandering the high street - or belittling those who do.


----------



## Dave S

So come on and own up.

Which one of you took a day off work today to join the queue to shop in Primark?

It has just been on the news!


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> Nice. Luckily for me I have a choice. I don't have to shop for cheap rubbish and I can afford other forms of entertainment and amusement other than wandering the high street - or belittling those who do.


I'm not quite sure how to take this post? Am I being rapped over the knuckles for posting in response to @catz4m8z remark? .



I was surprised to see so many people queueing outside Primark today said:


> It was never intended to denigrate anyone and I apologise if you're offended.
> 
> I have no idea who Primark is apart from the fact it appears to be a clothes store, having not lived in the UK for the past 30 years


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> TBH its not a huge problem...Ive just gone back to my trusty shopping trolley like I used before internet grocery shopping was a thing! Only annoying thing is some vegan bits are only available in the bigger supermarkets and I CBA walking over 4-5 miles for a block of cheese!LOL:Shy
> 
> ok, so my mind is still boggled by the shopaholics (I mean we still had the internet these 2 months...we could have shopped there!) but Im coming round. The economy is in the toilet so get out there you buyers of tat and rubbish!! Save our economy!!:Woot


That's annoying about the cheese.

I suppose people may have not wanted to get anything delivered. But I'd rather a delivery than a shop anyway. The only non food thing I've bought was books from a second hand shop who delivered by bike. That's the way I'm saving the economy, one book at a time


----------



## cheekyscrip

I am Cheekyscrip.

I admit to going to Main Street on Saturday to buy shoes.

Two pairs for me.
Sliders and trainers for the kid.

Next time I get irresistible urge to shop I will call Shopping Anonymous.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well. I went to Costco today for the first time since January and was MOST amused by what I saw. Picture it. Woman in a mask and gloves, walking around touching everything (when you go there you seem to end up in synch with other shoppers, so you see them loads of times). She was touching so much that I very nearly asked her to stop. Eventually I go through the tills, out to the car. I'm loading up and the aforementioned woman is in the car next to me, also unloading her shopping. 

Now for my favourite bit. She gets in the car, still has mask and gloves on. Unwraps the foil wrapped pizza she has just bought from the Costco cafe, pulls the mask down with her gloved hand that's touched everything for the preceding hour, so it's sitting around her neck and proceeds to pick up the pizza with her gloved hand and eat it. You couldn't make it up, could you? Jeez. 

The lady who served me was telling me about the Primark queues...I don't really understand the desperation. Mind you, most of my clothes come from Sainsburys


----------



## Elles

Weird innit. They moan about dying high streets and how terrible it is that people don’t shop there anymore, then whine about it when they do. 
What do they want, people shopping in primark, or buying off amazon? 

Not being allowed to try on clothes solves the changing room gender problem at least.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

That is very true @Elles - maybe we should book slots online to go shopping :/


----------



## catz4m8z

cheekyscrip said:


> Next time I get irresistible urge to shop I will call Shopping Anonymous.


Nothing wrong with shopping...you are helping the economy!
I just dont get the mad rush. 
Although I cant afford to spend any money at the moment. When all this kicked off I kinda stress shopped way too much online.:Shy


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> Weird innit. They moan about dying high streets and how terrible it is that people don't shop there anymore, then whine about it when they do.
> What do they want, people shopping in primark, or buying off amazon?
> 
> Not being allowed to try on clothes solves the changing room gender problem at least.


I've been buying from local shops who have been the main stay of our community since we locked down and clothes aren't essential, less so because I'm pretty much only seen from the top down (swear I'm not doing 'extreme Zooming - google it!)! . I'm sure it's better to, where it's affordable to do so, to support businesses that do pay tax (in Primark's case has whole load of ethical issues). That said Primark is affordable even if it costs elsewhere and kids grow a lot in 12 weeks but I'm amazed at how many people interviewed on the news where going on a spree.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> When all this kicked off I kinda stress shopped way too much online.:Shy


Is this an actual thing?

It might explain my OHs incessantly badgering me for what I want to buy via internet 
I think he's run out of stuff for himself, so wants me to start spending now. Every time I even hint that something would be useful, even as a joke, he's on his computer and looking it up. I can be engrossed in something else and he'll start waffling on about some useless piece of junk to buy 
He has been known to change our Tesco order several times in one week too

Sometimes we have 3-4 parcels arrive in one day. Is that when he's really stressed?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Getting up to answer the door to deliveries has become part of my daily exercise regime, it’s so often! 

Between the three of us (and Jack) there’s always something to buy and I can’t get it all with my Asda delivery. 

I understand people wanting to get back out there and shop, etc. but personally, I’m in no hurry. 

DS and I have both ventured into the Post Office with a couple of returns but other than that we’re not in circulation still. My trips to the open air plant nursery were also well orchestrated and I felt safe.

Shops and supermarkets, being busier and enclosed - not for me, until there is a huge change in the numbers/spread/vaccine etc.

So long as most people follow guidelines and obey the rules we might avoid going backwards and I guess the herd immunity will build gradually as people “mix” under some sort of control.

I was shopping in local shops before lockdown but didn’t even ask for delivery as I figured they’d be swamped tbh.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I'm not quite sure how to take this post? Am I being rapped over the knuckles for posting in response to @catz4m8z remark? .


I read the queue outside Primark was a mile long! I guess without the two-metre rule it would have been shorter, but even so . . . I think also many shops are having sales, having to dispose of the old stock that they had before lockdown, like 70% off. I've never seen a Primark, just know it's a cheap place. I didn't go out yesterday as I knew it would be chaotic. Why be in such a hurry though to buy new clothes when you can't really go anywhere to wear it . . . apart from shopping. You can bet that some are doing their Christmas shopping now. I've been feeling sorry for people suffering hardship over the last few months, but here we are, the papers calling it 'Manic Monday' as they are spending so much. Can't wait for Black Friday.


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> Not being allowed to try on clothes


So if you buy online and they don't fit? Are you not allowed to send them back? If you do send them back, they have been tried on. Strange times.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I've been buying from local shops who have been the main stay of our community since we locked down and clothes aren't essential, less so because I'm pretty much only seen from the top down (swear I'm not doing 'extreme Zooming - google it!)! . I'm sure it's better to, where it's affordable to do so, to support businesses that do pay tax (in Primark's case has whole load of ethical issues). That said Primark is affordable even if it costs elsewhere and kids grow a lot in 12 weeks but I'm amazed at how many people interviewed on the news where going on a spree.


I'm quite ashamed to say that I was wearing a top yesterday on a Microsoft Teams video call which had a huge compost mark on the front from potting up some gerberas after the rain. I angled the camera so it could only see my shoulders and up


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> I'm quite ashamed to say that I was wearing a top yesterday on a Microsoft Teams video call which had a huge compost mark on the front from potting up some gerberas after the rain. I angled the camera so it could only see my shoulders and up


Why should it matter, that's what I'd like to know. What you wear doesn't affect who you are or how capable you are 
It's one of the reasons I've never fitted into "normal society", I can't be doing with all the uncomfortable cloths and footwear that cripple your feet.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Why should it matter, that's what I'd like to know. What you wear doesn't affect who you are or how capable you are
> It's one of the reasons I've never fitted into "normal society", I can't be doing with all the uncomfortable cloths and footwear that cripple your feet.


That's me as well, I've got to the age where I couldn't careless what I wear or what people think as long as I'm clean tidy what does it matter.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Why should it matter, that's what I'd like to know. What you wear doesn't affect who you are or how capable you are
> It's one of the reasons I've never fitted into "normal society", I can't be doing with all the uncomfortable cloths and footwear that cripple your feet.


I guess because I wouldn't wear a dirty top to work.

You don't have to wear uncomfortable clothes and shoes to look presentable. Yesterday I did not look presentable.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> That's me as well, I've got to the age where I couldn't careless what I wear or what people think as long as I'm clean tidy what does it matter.


That's the point though. I wasn't clean!


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> I guess because I wouldn't wear a dirty top to work.
> 
> You don't have to wear uncomfortable clothes and shoes to look presentable. Yesterday I did not look presentable.


My work desktop doesn't have a webcam - I could attend meetings in my undies and no-one would know


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> My work desktop doesn't have a webcam - I could attend meetings in my undies and no-one would know


So lucky! We all have laptops with webcams so have no get out clause


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> So lucky! We all have laptops with webcams so have no get out clause


You can always cover up the camera can't you!


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> So lucky! We all have laptops with webcams so have no get out clause


Yeah you do - just tell them your internet is playing up and will freeze if you turn the camera on...


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> You can always cover up the camera can't you!


Not really. The whole point of them using Microsoft Teams is so the video facility is utilised. Unfortunately!


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Yeah you do - just tell them your internet is playing up and will freeze if you turn the camera on...


----------



## Boxer123

We have to have loads of online meetings. My hayfever was so bad last week one of my colleagues thought I was weeping.


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> Why should it matter, that's what I'd like to know. What you wear doesn't affect who you are or how capable you are
> It's one of the reasons I've never fitted into "normal society", I can't be doing with all the uncomfortable cloths and footwear that cripple your feet.





Happy Paws2 said:


> That's me as well, I've got to the age where I couldn't careless what I wear or what people think as long as I'm clean tidy what does it matter.


Me three. I've never been into fashion, I remember for school mufti day I'd turn up in something comfortable and warm/cool (depending on the season), but smart and a lot of the others would turn up in the latest fashion but uncomfortable and more likely than not either too cold or too hot. I never understood it.


----------



## shadowmare

Looks like New Zealand’s clean streak has been disrupted by two new cases from UK. Women traveled to visit their dying mother. Now they’re stopping the compassionate exemptions from quarantine  

“After both women tested positive for Covid-19 on Monday, one reported that in hindsight she had been experiencing symptoms, but had attributed them to a pre-existing medical condition.”


----------



## cheekyscrip

catz4m8z said:


> Nothing wrong with shopping...you are helping the economy!
> I just dont get the mad rush.
> Although I cant afford to spend any money at the moment. When all this kicked off I kinda stress shopped way too much online.:Shy





Calvine said:


> I read the queue outside Primark was a mile long! I guess without the two-metre rule it would have been shorter, but even so . . . I think also many shops are having sales, having to dispose of the old stock that they had before lockdown, like 70% off. I've never seen a Primark, just know it's a cheap place. I didn't go out yesterday as I knew it would be chaotic. Why be in such a hurry though to buy new clothes when you can't really go anywhere to wear it . . . apart from shopping. You can bet that some are doing their Christmas shopping now. I've been feeling sorry for people suffering hardship over the last few months, but here we are, the papers calling it 'Manic Monday' as they are spending so much. Can't wait for Black Friday.


Primark is good for pajamas 

Or gardening/dog walking/playing with toddlers kind of clothes...


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I'm quite ashamed to say that I was wearing a top yesterday on a Microsoft Teams video call which had a huge compost mark on the front from potting up some gerberas after the rain. I angled the camera so it could only see my shoulders and up


I've been flashing a bra strap this morning! Oh and gerberas, lovely. I haven't grown any this year, they are beautiful. I think I'll regret not doing so!


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Why should it matter, that's what I'd like to know. What you wear doesn't affect who you are or how capable you are
> It's one of the reasons I've never fitted into "normal society", I can't be doing with all the uncomfortable cloths and footwear that cripple your feet.


I do have to pay some attention to how I look as I represent by own business but luckily it's design so we're mean to be alternative. Trainers or Dr Martens are acceptable if I have to leave the house.

Dyspraxia means some fabric feels horrible to me - anything wool or poly cotton, tight around cuffs or neck - ugh. I would struggle with a uniform.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> I read the queue outside Primark was a mile long! I guess without the two-metre rule it would have been shorter, but even so . . . I think also many shops are having sales, having to dispose of the old stock that they had before lockdown, like 70% off. I've never seen a Primark, just know it's a cheap place. I didn't go out yesterday as I knew it would be chaotic. Why be in such a hurry though to buy new clothes when you can't really go anywhere to wear it . . . apart from shopping. You can bet that some are doing their Christmas shopping now. I've been feeling sorry for people suffering hardship over the last few months, but here we are, the papers calling it 'Manic Monday' as they are spending so much. Can't wait for Black Friday.





cheekyscrip said:


> Primark is good for pajamas
> 
> Or gardening/dog walking/playing with toddlers kind of clothes...


it's the ethics. Yes it's cheap but someone else pays the price somewhere along the line. I honestly don't feel that we can shout about equal rights for all, and then walk into shops like Primark without questioning what we're buying into or checking the provenance. Modern day slavery happens and it's found in the places these cut cost stores buy cotton. Easy for me to say - I don't go there for these reasons - and I have sufficient clothes and as @havoc rightly observes lucky to have the choice. But because I have the choice arguably I ought to be asking the questions. We really need to get better acquainted with what we are supporting through our habits. How many of you shop at Asda and know that Wallmart (parent company) funded Trump? Will likely fund him again.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I do have to pay some attention to how I look as I represent by own business but luckily it's design so we're mean to be alternative. Trainers or Dr Martens are acceptable if I have to leave the house.
> 
> Dyspraxia means some fabric feels horrible to me - anything wool or poly cotton, tight around cuffs or neck - ugh. I would struggle with a uniform.


I've never been able to be completely 'smart' (or at least what is the accepted norm for smart in my work field) as I find it impossible to wear two layers. I can only just wear a top and a coat when it's cold.

But something like a shirt and suit jacket would make me feel sick. No idea why, I've never been good with feeling restricted.

I'm ok with underwear and an upper layer though


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> it's the ethics. Yes it's cheap but someone else pays the price somewhere along the line. I honestly don't feel that we can shout about equal rights for all, and then walk into shops like Primark without questioning what we're buying into or checking the provenance. Modern day slavery happens and it's found in the places these cut cost stores buy cotton. Easy for me to say - I don't go there for these reasons - and I have sufficient clothes and as @havoc rightly observes lucky to have the choice. But because I have the choice arguably I ought to be asking the questions. We really need to get better acquainted with what we are supporting through our habits. How many of you shop at Asda and know that Wallmart (parent company) funded Trump? Will likely fund him again.


How do you find out though?

I'm not being argumentative by the way, I'm really interested. I'm not very good at this internet / searching thing, my internet habits are restricted to a few things I've been shown how to do and unless i know exactly what I'm looking for I'm not good at working out what to put in the search to find things.


----------



## Jobeth

MilleD said:


> So lucky! We all have laptops with webcams so have no get out clause


I just turned my camera off and no one said anything.


----------



## LittleEms

ForestWomble said:


> How do you find out though?
> 
> I'm not being argumentative by the way, I'm really interested. I'm not very good at this internet / searching thing, my internet habits are restricted to a few things I've been shown how to do and unless i know exactly what I'm looking for I'm not good at working out what to put in the search to find things.


Hi hope nobody minds a newbie jumping into this convo! Ethical fashion is just something I feel really strongly about and wanted to help  I use an app called 'Good On You' and you can search by brand to see info on materials, workplace conditions ect.
Also nowadays most brands should have the info available on their websites somewhere - often worth checking faq pages ect,


----------



## MilleD

Jobeth said:


> I just turned my camera off and no one said anything.


Hmm, not sure how that would go down. I know I definitely can't do that with the guys I manage as it doesn't set a very good behaviour example :Angelic


----------



## kimthecat

Good news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.

Had the drug had been used to treat patients in the UK from the start of the pandemic, up to 5,000 lives could have been saved, researchers say.

And it could be of huge benefit in poorer countries with high numbers of Covid-19 patients.

The UK government has 200,000 courses of the drug in its stockpile and says the NHS will make dexamethasone available to patients.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> The lady who served me was telling me about the Primark queues...I don't really understand the desperation. Mind you, most of my clothes come from Sainsburys


Aw bless your Mrs F, most of mine come from the 1990's.:Bag


----------



## Jobeth

MilleD said:


> Hmm, not sure how that would go down. I know I definitely can't do that with the guys I manage as it doesn't set a very good behaviour example :Angelic


They all know what I look like at work! We don't use zoom but the email comment is accurate so we only use Microsoft Team for external trading events.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Cully said:


> Aw bless your Mrs F, most of mine come from the 1990's.:Bag


I have got lots of them, too, Cully! Don't you worry. In fact, I'm about to go and put on a dress I bought in 1996 from Next when I was a shop girl there. I can fit in it again now and it's always been my favourite


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Aw bless your Mrs F, most of mine come from the 1990's.:Bag


 Ive still wear my 80s clothes.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Ive still wear my 80s clothes.


Depends where in the 80s...i was in infant school and started at secondary school too.. I don't think either look would be good or fit me! Definitely not undergarments!


----------



## havoc

Magyarmum said:


> I'm not quite sure how to take this post? Am I being rapped over the knuckles for posting in response to @catz4m8z remark


I was intending to point out that some people have such rubbish lives that a trip to Primark is actually seen as a good thing. Imagine how awful your existence is for that to be the case. Whichever 'journalist' wrote that is a nasty piece of work and could do with a good dose of humility. Luckily a young footballer has redeemed my faith in human nature today. A lad who lives a relatively luxurious life hasn't forgotten what it's like to go to bed hungry and stood up for children throughout England.


----------



## Magyarmum

havoc said:


> I was intending to point out that some people have such rubbish lives that a trip to Primark is actually seen as a good thing. Imagine how awful your existence is for that to be the case. Whichever 'journalist' wrote that is a nasty piece of work and could do with a good dose of humility. Luckily a young footballer has redeemed my faith in human nature today. A lad who lives a relatively luxurious life hasn't forgotten what it's like to go to bed hungry and stood up for children throughout England.


The Daily Mash is satirical website which I thought would have been fairly obvious!.

Do you really mean to tell me you took it seriously ? 

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/about

*About the Daily Mash*
The Daily Mash is a satirical website which publishes spoof articles, i.e. it is all made-up and is not intended,_* in any way whatsoever,*_ to be taken as factual.

For advertising enquiries contact [email protected]. For subscription enquiries log into your Tiny Pass account by clicking here.

For the avoidance of doubt, all editorial content on the Daily Mash is copyright Digitalbox Publishing Limited. Editorial images are supplied by Press Association Images, Rex  and Dreamstime.

While we do not accept unsolicited contributions, we are happy to hear from new writers. Get in touch via the *contact form *(don't send us a story, but do tell us about your writing experience).

As the website contains swear words you must be over 18 to read it.

Thank you and good day.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I have got lots of them, too, Cully! Don't you worry. In fact, I'm about to go and put on a dress I bought in 1996 from Next when I was a shop girl there. I can fit in it again now and it's always been my favourite


Well you know what they say. Hang on long enough and they come back in fashion.


----------



## mrs phas

This is not mine, but I have permission to share

Scary how true this actually is ...

This coronavirus is the strangest virus I've ever heard of. It's very dangerous the way it spreads. It is so mysterious the way it lurks in schools, but then dies at B&Q. It can wreak havoc in churches; praying people are exceptionally vulnerable! Although it’s Mind-boggling how it vanishes when people stand close together holding signs, destroying memorials, buildings, property etc. Yet, standing to watch a football or cticket match or a concert triggers its wrath. It is sneaky. It can spread when buying clothes at M&S but not at Tesco. It is non-alcoholic. It can't spread when you are buying beer. It lives for two days on Amazon boxes, you must wait 48 hours to touch them but It can't survive on takeaway coffee cups, so enjoying a hot cup of costa is safe. It is the most curious thing, how it lives on footballs, ballet bars, even loo seats but dies on WWE ropes. It is spread by hair stylists, dog groomers, and dentists, but not by bank tellers, cashiers, and fast food workers. It's so smart. It won’t bother the first 10 people but it knows when the 11th person shows up so be careful if that’s you. It even knows what you want vs what you need. If you want a massage or your nails done it is very actively on the prowl and not even a mask can stop it but If you need a plumber, it is weak, and a mask will keep it away. It also seems to be most dangerous after 5:30pm so businesses must start to close before the virus comes out and wreaks havoc upon the populations. Whoever heard of such a smart sneaky virus?!?


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Ive still wear my 80s clothes.


Please, please, please
No revival of 80s fashion
I thought 70s with loons and cheesecloth, platforms and hang overs from the hippy 60s
But then came the 80s with
Rara skirts, pixie boots, saggy leg warmers, scarvest in a bow on top of your head, fingerless gloves, even in summer, tutus out of ballet school, and so on

At least now we can wear what we like, says she sitting here in a 10yr old dress


----------



## Dave S

Yes bring back those 70's fashions, flairs, wide collars, long groomed hair, uncomplicated lives without computers, playstations or mobile phones and no worldwide viruses as we were not a global community.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Please, please, please
> No revival of 80s fashion
> I thought 70s with loons and cheesecloth, platforms and hang overs from the hippy 60s
> But then came the 80s with
> Rara skirts, pixie boots, saggy leg warmers, scarvest in a bow on top of your head, fingerless gloves, even in summer, tutus out of ballet school, and so on
> 
> At least now we can wear what we like, says she sitting here in a 10yr old dress


 There has been a bit of an 80s revival lately. I loved my Rara skirt! I tell you what I will never where again and that is 70s flares and velour track suits :Vomit

Actually i think I still have a couple of 70s tops. I keep them for the memories


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Actually i think I still have a couple of 70s tops. I keep them for the memories


My sister was manageress of an Etam and her wardrobe is full of a variety of 60s,70s and 80s clothes that she'll never wear again.


----------



## Dave S

Since the 70's I have gone from a 28 inch waist to a 32 inch waist and added a bit to my weight. 
The long hair has vanished and in it's place is a shiny, low maintenance solar panel.
Shoes have lower heels and last longer than my relationships ever did.
Was only able to have 7 one night stands per week, now been married for longer than you get a life sentence for murder
Stiff joints take the place of an invigorating work out

BUT

I am happy and healthy and have 2 sons and nearly 3 grandchildren and have *so far avoided any contact with this virus*.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> I was intending to point out that some people have such rubbish lives that a trip to Primark is actually seen as a good thing.


I can see how Primark might be a godsend if you dont have much money and have kids growing out of things on a weekly basis (although back in the ol' days Im pretty sure kids clothes just went second/third/forth hand til they fell apart!LOL).

Great news about dexamethasone though. They found a drug that dramatically cuts death rates and its cheap, easily available and doesnt have many side effects! :Woot


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> How do you find out though?
> 
> I'm not being argumentative by the way, I'm really interested. I'm not very good at this internet / searching thing, my internet habits are restricted to a few things I've been shown how to do and unless i know exactly what I'm looking for I'm not good at working out what to put in the search to find things.


I have a subscription to The Ethical Consumer which gives loads of details but they have a lot of free advice too that can be viewed sufficiently to make better choices. It's probably one of the most useful and informative sites - if not a bit alarming. They survey brand big and small often against several measures - people, environment, animals and finance - and mark them. The information comes from the company and it's parent ownership. The Big Issue often features information, Which and the Guardian too.

I don't think everyone can afford to be super ethical. Some of the tea brands that score well in Ethical Consumer are a bit rare but ones people assume are good Tea Pigs for example are not what they appear. Method and Ecover too as they are owned by Unilever who test on animals and have a poor environmental record but it has a sliding scale so you can decide on alternatives and shop by the values that matter most to you


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I've never been able to be completely 'smart' (or at least what is the accepted norm for smart in my work field) as I find it impossible to wear two layers. I can only just wear a top and a coat when it's cold.
> 
> But something like a shirt and suit jacket would make me feel sick. No idea why, I've never been good with feeling restricted.
> 
> I'm ok with underwear and an upper layer though


OMG me too! I can't stand a shirt with a jumper over it. Even the thought makes me feel ill.

ooohh extreme Zooming! I've been wearing yoga pant things since March.

As for clothes of my youth I still dress in black so not too far from my goth roots but probably best not do the full Whitby Goth. I did this for a Halloween night and sat in the pub not far from my landlord friend and he had no idea it was me! I could bomb meetings as a crazy Goth woman.


----------



## Calvine

@MollySmith: When I said I ''couldn't wait for Black Friday'', I was being ironic. I have not been into town since the shops opened this week and the shops here seem to be much the same as before. The cycle shop has opened but the charity shops, estate agent, picture framer et al all still closed.



MollySmith said:


> I still dress in black


I love black, but I don't feel the cat hairs do much for it, unfortunately. Even the car seats are not immune as a result of taking them to the vet.


----------



## Calvine

Apologies if already posted, but this is rather worrying?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...break-travel-restricted-china-severe-measures


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> Apologies if already posted, but this is rather worrying?
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...break-travel-restricted-china-severe-measures


Nothing would get me on a plane to anywhere any time soon.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Nothing would get me on a plane to anywhere any time soon.


or a train, bus or taxi, as far as it goes if I can't get there on my mobility scooter, I just won't be going.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> My sister was manageress of an Etam and her wardrobe is full of a variety of 60s,70s and 80s clothes that she'll never wear again.


Id forgottem about Etams. I used to shop there and Top Shop. Her clothes might be worth something now. lots of people buy "vintage" clothes.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> My sister was manageress of an* Etam *and her wardrobe is full of a variety of 60s,70s and 80s clothes that she'll never wear again.


Heck that takes me back I, use to get tops from them, I use to like C&A as well.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> Heck that takes me back I, use to get tops from them, I use to like C&A as well.


I really liked C&A, there was a rather nice stylish brand of clothes that were more towards the back of the store that had some really different styles and colours, I think they were either Dutch or German designs. I've still got clothes from there that I wear from time to time


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I really liked C&A, there was a rather nice stylish brand of clothes that were more towards the back of the store that had some really different styles and colours, *I think they were either Dutch or German designs.* I've still got clothes from there that I wear from time to time


Not sure, but when I was in Amsterdam in the 60's there was a C&A there.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I loved C&A, by mum said it was short for 'coats&'ats' ! I did like their clothes though.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I just googled C&A and they still trade on-line, might have a look and see what they are like now.


----------



## catz4m8z

SusieRainbow said:


> I loved C&A, by mum said it was short for 'coats&'ats' ! I did like their clothes though.


awww, C&As was the best! All my favourite pajamas came from there (the posh ones with matching 3 piece sets!).

This thread seems a little off topic at the moment....:Wacky


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> This thread seems a little off topic at the moment....:Wacky


I think it's a nice change to throw a little light relief in amongst the serious stuff.


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not sure, but when I was in Amsterdam in the 60's there was a C&A there.


The company owners were Dutch, a member of their family with a complicated Dutch name used to live in a nearby village. They were nice people and joined in village life in not only their village but our as well.


----------



## lullabydream

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not sure, but when I was in Amsterdam in the 60's there was a C&A there.


Still is C&A in Amsterdam!


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> The company owners were Dutch, a member of their family with a complicated Dutch name used to live in a nearby village. They were nice people and joined in village life in not only their village but our as well.


Brenninkmeijer was the name of the founders of C&A. We have a large C&A in my nearest city and you'll find them in all the main Hungarian cities as well as all over Europe.

We never really shopped in the C&A in Nottingham because for some reason their clothes weren't a good fit for me as a child, unlike M&S. .I have bought clothes from them though since living in Hungary


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Brenninkmeijer was the name of the founders of C&A. We have a large C&A in my nearest city and you'll find them in all the main Hungarian cities as well as all over Europe.
> 
> We never really shopped in the C&A in Nottingham because for some reason their clothes weren't a good fit for me as a child, unlike M&S. .I have bought clothes from them though since living in Hungary


That's the name.
They used to enter all the classes in the the flower and veg show in the village during the time that I was involved on the Hort Soc committee. I was chief-o writing out the first second and third prize cards in my best italalic handwriting. That name would take ages to write as I was so worried about getting it wrong.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Id forgottem about Etams. I used to shop there and Top Shop. Her clothes might be worth something now. lots of people buy "vintage" clothes.


Did Top Shop close? The one here seems to have, quite recently. Think Philip Green was behind it?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Etam was great for me, as they did a Fat Girl range long before anyone else really thought about bigger sizes...and I loved C&A the first time I lost weight  I was putting some "fat clothes" into the loft a few weeks ago and found my old velvet shorts (hot pants really!) that I used to go clubbing in, in the early 90s and I tried them on and THEY FIT! I was so delighted. They are Top Shop, size 14 - which certainly isn't a size 14 nowadays! Interesting how the sizes are on older clothes, we were definitely much smaller as a 14 in those days. I think a size 16 was "plus size" then, that was what the Etam Plus range started at.


----------



## rona

Mrs Funkin said:


> Etam was great for me, as they did a Fat Girl range long before anyone else really thought about bigger sizes...and I loved C&A the first time I lost weight  I was putting some "fat clothes" into the loft a few weeks ago and found my old velvet shorts (hot pants really!) that I used to go clubbing in, in the early 90s and I tried them on and THEY FIT! I was so delighted. They are Top Shop, size 14 - which certainly isn't a size 14 nowadays! Interesting how the sizes are on older clothes, we were definitely much smaller as a 14 in those days. I think a size 16 was "plus size" then, that was what the Etam Plus range started at.


They did Tammy girl too. I think it was the first fashion line for pre teens


----------



## Siskin

Chelsea Girl? I can remember that shop so clearly in Cheltenham, it was on the corner just down from Woollies.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Gibraltar is free of it for now.
No new cases and all recovered.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Chelsea Girl? I can remember that shop so clearly in Cheltenham, it was on the corner just down from Woollies.


Isn't that River Island?


----------



## MollySmith

"Not one to veer too far from the familiar, I turned instead to Olivia von Halle for silk pyjamas in colours guaranteed to make the dullest Zoom meeting come alive."

Betcha they're not for sale in Primark...  I can't work out if this article is a parody or not.

https://www.ft.com/content/8ea1c992-89f8-11ea-a109-483c62d17528


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Isn't that River Island?


I've no idea, Chelsea Girl was from the 60's and 70's


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> Gibraltar is free of it for now.
> No new cases and all recovered.


We had 1 new case and 2 deaths on Tuesday and today 1 new case and 1 death. Eating inside cafes and restaurants is now allowed but wearing masks on public transport and in shops is still compulsory. The state of emergency has been lifted.

Enjoying a coffee with the Schnauzer boys








..


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Yes @rona Chelsea Girl did indeed become River Island. I remember well it happening in Stockport


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Still is C&A in Amsterdam!


And Prague


----------



## cheekyscrip

MilleD said:


> And Prague


And Palmones...

I get stuff for OH and only occasionally for myself.

Decided not to buy clothes and lockdown helped!

H&M was my favourite as had stuff for everyone including my teens.

Love their dresses.


----------



## kittih

Calvine said:


> Apologies if already posted, but this is rather worrying?
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...break-travel-restricted-china-severe-measures


The suggestion seems to be that the strain is the European version which is more contagious. Thats the version we have in the UK. It isnt suprising really that this strain is now in China.

Until all countries in the world have no cases (be they with symptoms or asymptomatic) then there is a high chance that by relaxing travel restrictions and allowing more interaction those countries with few or no cases will see a rise of cases again.

New Zealand declared itself covid free (until two people arrived with it). This is great but as soon as they open borders infections will increase again. Closing borders indefinitely isnt sustainable.


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> Still is C&A in Amsterdam!


Gutted when C&A closed , In the 60s , mum would take me and my sister to C&A Oxford street twice a year for the summer and New Year sales. We'd save our birthday and Christmas money and spend it there. It was lovely to have clothes that were new and not hand me downs.


----------



## kimthecat

Just been on Twitter and people moaning about poorer families receiving free school vouchers and saying horrible things like they'll spend it on drink and Sky tv  . I understand its 15 pound per child, hardly a fortune .


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Just been on Twitter and people moaning about poorer families receiving free school vouchers and saying horrible things like they'll spend it on drink and Sky tv  . I understand its 15 pound per child, hardly a fortune .


It's voucher for food. However I did hear from a friend people were initially try to flog them for cash on ebay. Don't know how truthful that is or a rumour circling on Facebook!


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> It's voucher for food. However I did hear from a friend people were initially try to flog them for cash on ebay. Don't know how truthful that is or a rumour circling on Facebook!


Some could well do that but they shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush ) . They may well need the money to pay for other bills.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Just been on Twitter and people moaning about poorer families receiving free school vouchers and saying horrible things like they'll spend it on drink and Sky tv  . I understand its 15 pound per child, hardly a fortune .


unfortunately its true
two of my youngest sons friends gets them
as long as they go to the named supermarket
they can spend them on what they wish 

It should be printed on them, what they can be accepted for, I know £15 doesnt go far, but some who are on benefits/furloughed have 2, 3 , 4 + children, it soon adds up

20+ yrs ago, when mine had to be on free school meals, due to my husbands redundancy in one of the last big recessions, we had nothing extra during the school holidays, no breakfast clubs, nothing
no 80% of wages +, just whatever we were given by job centre, no hb either as we, then, had a mortgage
Me, and everyone else, that went through those times, wouldve been bloody greatful, for vouchers, for a little extra food, not spending it on drink, ciggies or anything else


----------



## Mrs Funkin

For us locally, the lack of adherence to rules is no doubt in part due to the fact there has only been one Covid death in our village. Now I am in no way wishing more but many folk (inc relatives of ours) are saying that nobody has died, so it’s obviously not serious :/ 

The second wave in China is concerning but I’m not sure how much info we will get? I’m hoping that when I’m back at work next week, things will have settled as this week is the first week of all staff needing to wear a mask and our patients needing to wear a face covering. It’s bad enough four hours at a time, let alone the whole day no matter what! Urgh.


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> unfortunately its true
> two of my youngest sons friends gets them
> as long as they go to the named supermarket
> they can spend them on what they wish
> 
> It should be printed on them, what they can be accepted for, I know £15 doesnt go far, but some who are on benefits/furloughed have 2, 3 , 4 + children, it soon adds up
> 
> 20+ yrs ago, when mine had to be on free school meals, due to my husbands redundancy in one of the last big recessions, we had nothing extra during the school holidays, no breakfast clubs, nothing
> no 80% of wages +, just whatever we were given by job centre, no hb either as we, then, had a mortgage
> Me, and everyone else, that went through those times, wouldve been bloody greatful, for vouchers, for a little extra food, not spending it on drink, ciggies or anything else


You can't buy sky TV at a supermarket?


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> Just been on Twitter and people moaning about poorer families receiving free school vouchers and saying horrible things like they'll spend it on drink and Sky tv  . I understand its 15 pound per child, hardly a fortune .


Not saying they shouldn't get anything, but we pay some of taxes to pay for child benefit, isn't that meant to feed the children.


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> For us locally, the lack of adherence to rules is no doubt in part due to the fact there has only been one Covid death in our village. Now I am in no way wishing more but many folk (inc relatives of ours) are saying that nobody has died, so it's obviously not serious :/
> 
> The second wave in China is concerning but I'm not sure how much info we will get? I'm hoping that when I'm back at work next week, things will have settled as this week is the first week of all staff needing to wear a mask and our patients needing to wear a face covering. It's bad enough four hours at a time, let alone the whole day no matter what! Urgh.


I might be getting mixed up
but arent you a midwife? 
(my apologies if i have mixed you with another)

how awful for mums in labour to have to wear a facemask!
unable to have gas and air for relief
let alone having something over ones face when all you want is to breath clearly


----------



## Mrs Funkin

It’s okay - the labour guidance is slightly different so ladies in labour don’t need to wear a mask (but their birth partner does), thank goodness!


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> It's okay - the labour guidance is slightly different so ladies in labour don't need to wear a mask (but their birth partner does), thank goodness!


I was going to say.. I didn't think the guidance covered in labour just appointments anyway.

Plus being in labour it's a bit like running a marathon there been warnings about exercise and face masks that don't do it because it can be fatal.


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> How many of you shop at Asda and know that Wallmart (parent company) funded Trump? Will likely fund him again.


Meh, Walmart also funded Bernie, and will fund Biden too I'm sure. Giant corporations like to keep all their bases covered and can easily afford to do so.

I won't shop at Walmart for multiple other reasons, and I agree that those of us lucky enough to have the choice should be voting with our wallets as much as with our ballots. But I think we also need to think about our consumerism in general. So much of what we buy we really don't need we just think we need it because like good little consumers, we believe the hype, the advertising.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not saying they shouldn't get anything, but we pay some of taxes to pay for child benefit, isn't that meant to feed the children.


 I understand this is to do with children who are eligible for free school dinners. They are not receiving them so the school or councils will not be spending money on them . Im not sure if it has changed but even people with children who earned a high salary received it.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> . How many of you shop at Asda and know that Wallmart (parent company) funded Trump? Will likely fund him again.


 I did not know this. I never shopped there until this crises and they were the first ones to contact me , so I had no choice. Never heard from tescos , sainsburys or Morrisons.

What about Wilkinsons/Wilko? Who owns that. One of my favourite shops .


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> Fat Girl range


They didn't call it that did they!


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> It's voucher for food. However I did hear from a friend people were initially try to flog them for cash on ebay. Don't know how truthful that is or a rumour circling on Facebook!


 No idea: but I do remember a few years ago, a friend of mine who was not really hard up and her money-making sideline: she and four teenage children went to GP ''desperate to stop smoking'' and were prescribed some stuff (Niquitin rings a bell?) to help them. She flogged the whole lot on eBay, was very happy at what it went for.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Calvine said:


> They didn't call it that did they!


I don't think so! Etam Plus I think


----------



## Cully




----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I did not know this. I never shopped there until this crises and they were the first ones to contact me , so I had no choice. Never heard from tescos , sainsburys or Morrisons.
> 
> What about Wilkinsons/Wilko? Who owns that. One of my favourite shops .


I'm afraid they aren't good. They're 7.5 out of 20 scoring badly for use of palm oil, sourcing cotton (the same or similar supply chain at Primark so using countries where governments have forced people to grow and manufacture cotton, therefore modern slavery and oppression) and a poor record of recycling and environment. The report is lengthy (behind each of the subsections there is the results of the findings collated from The Ethical Consumer's research and other investigations they collate)

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/company-profile/wilkinson-family

I don't think any supermarket does great, but that might change post pandemic perhaps, and it's very hard to shop without using them in a pandemic especially if shielding. Much depends on where one lives too, I have lots of local indies who are delivering and our Coop has been amazing but I leave the house to do all the shopping at some point otherwise I'd have to sign up to a supermarket for deliveries. However, this - if the link works - makes interesting reading. Asda score 0.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/retailers/shopping-guide/supermarkets


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> I don't think any supermarket does great, but that might change post pandemic perhaps, and it's very hard to shop without using them in a pandemic especially if shielding. Much depends on where one lives too, I have lots of local indies who are delivering and our Coop has been amazing but I leave the house to do all the shopping at some point otherwise I'd have to sign up to a supermarket for deliveries. However, this - if the link works - makes interesting reading. Asda score 0.
> 
> https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/retailers/shopping-guide/supermarkets


Asda 0  
In normal times we go to our local Co op once a week , its nice and friendly and have good bargains. They make donations to local charities and if you are a member you get cash back.

I dont agree with halal meat because I think it is cruel but it is more or less impossible to find a store that doesn't sell it in this area. All the main ones do.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> I dont agree with halal meat because I think it is cruel


The majority of halal slaughtered in the uk is pre-stunned and the voltage used is the same as normal.
The main difference is with chickens (which grated is majority of what is slaughtered) as often the standard voltage kills them so for halal its reduced as they can't be killed, just unconscious. 
Kosher is never prestunned.


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> Meh, Walmart also funded Bernie, and will fund Biden too I'm sure. Giant corporations like to keep all their bases covered and can easily afford to do so.
> 
> I won't shop at Walmart for multiple other reasons, and I agree that those of us lucky enough to have the choice should be voting with our wallets as much as with our ballots. But I think we also need to think about our consumerism in general. So much of what we buy we really don't need we just think we need it because like good little consumers, we believe the hype, the advertising.


Yes agree, we have a lot of collective power as consumers.

In case anyone was wondering, then these are the reasons why Asda and Wallmart have score 0


----------



## Happy Paws2

Happy Paws2 said:


> I been worried about the 2 hospital appointments which are due soon, was it safe to go there and how I was going to get there.
> 
> Well I had a phone call yesterday and a letter this morning saying I've got a *Telephone Consultation next Thursday at 3pm*, so I haven't got to go there I'm so relieved I don't have to go there.
> 
> So hopefully the other appointment is going to be the same.


He phone yesterday we had a chat he seemed pleased with me said he wanted a blood test as our GP doesn't do blood tests for the hospital he said would phone them and sort something out with them, well a nurse phoned this morning and I've a blood test on Monday.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Good news that the UK has been reduced to level 3. Hope all the businesses that are still prevented from opening can be reopened very soon, hopefully the 2m rule will be cut to 1m to further enable businesses to function properly.


----------



## mrs phas

3dogs2cats said:


> Good news that the UK has been reduced to level 3. Hope all the businesses that are still prevented from opening can be reopened very soon, hopefully the 2m rule will be cut to 1m to further enable businesses to function properly.


Cant agree Im afraid
it all seems to be happening far to fast
we're only just opening normal every day shops, so have no idea whether that might cue a rise again
and the 2m rule is supposed to be a minimum distance
and 
once in shops people ignore it anyway, in their selfish rush to think only of themselves or, even if one is keeping the 2m minimum, workers pass inbetween you pushing huge trollies, only to leave them mid aisle

this seems all a precursor to getting the pubs back open, when, even if its a 1m distance, idiots will ignore, as they did to cause the lockdown in the first place
Lets face it one pub chain is already saying theyre opening on July 4th, whether allowed or not

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53094134


----------



## rona

I've been looking at the Swimming pool guidelines for opening probably July 4th. I really couldn't do that, They will split the pools into three and have 10 in each section but you aren't allowed to overtake. Not a relaxing swim at all, and I really need to try and relax at the moment, so I've spent a little time looking for and contacting private pools that hire.
I can't believe I've found one just a mile away from home. 

It will cost a little more than my usual membership, but I only have to take one other person with me for insurance purposes. It will be very relaxing after the initial visit, so I've already provisionally booked it for once every week in August


----------



## MollySmith

I agree, it's not really 3. 132 people died yesterday. THow much their loved ones must be feeling about this news, I can't imagine. I feel we've lost the humanity and these are just numbers. I think the names should be read out each day then it might sink in.


----------



## rona

Boris seems better now


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Cant agree Im afraid
> it all seems to be happening far to fast
> we're only just opening normal every day shops, so have no idea whether that might cue a rise again
> and the 2m rule is supposed to be a minimum distance
> and
> once in shops people ignore it anyway, in their selfish rush to think only of themselves or, even if one is keeping the 2m minimum, workers pass inbetween you pushing huge trollies, only to leave them mid aisle
> 
> this seems all a precursor to getting the pubs back open, when, even if its a 1m distance, idiots will ignore, as they did to cause the lockdown in the first place
> Lets face it one pub chain is already saying theyre opening on July 4th, whether allowed or not
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53094134


One of my clients who supplied the hospitality trade said that reducing the 2 metre rule to 1 will make 70% difference in trade, I think the pressure is on from industries, even if many of us don't feel it's right. Anyway, yes I agree. We dread walking Molly - my dyspraxia means I can't leap off pavements like others and now there's more traffic it's even more dangerous. There's parents putting kids in the play areas now for weeks, they've removed the tape themselves. I asked the council and they said it wasn't allowed - play areas are not open - but then did bugger all about it.


----------



## MollySmith

The daily infection rate now is still ALMOST TWICE as great as when we went into Lockdown on 23 March...
23rd March: 729 daily cases (7 day average)
17th June : 1301 (& day average)

I think Boris is still hallucinating, a long term condition since December last year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/


----------



## lullabydream

Is that on more testing though.. 

It will go out with more testing available to all.


----------



## kimthecat

@MollySmith was it in this thread where you gave a link to a she wee.? I cant find it. It looks like my holiday will be on and Im seriously thinking of buying one.


----------



## rona

Relation of OH who works on Covid wards is expecting a surge.
He hasn't seen his vulnerable wife since early March and it doesn't look as if he'll see her for some months yet!


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Relation of OH who works on Covid wards is expecting a surge.
> He hasn't seen his vulnerable wife since early March and it doesn't look as if he'll see her for some months yet!


I'm not surprised given all the large gatherings going on, non essential shopping etc. 

Spoke (at distance) to a chap this morning who was bemoaning peoples' lack of SD while he was shopping at Lakeside (a major retail park near us). What did he expect - he'd have the shops to himself?


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> @MollySmith was it in this thread where you gave a link to a she wee.? I cant find it. It looks like my holiday will be on and Im seriously thinking of buying one.


not to answer for her
but theres this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shewee-506...ocphy=1007131&hvtargid=pla-306070502605&psc=1


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> @MollySmith was it in this thread where you gave a link to a she wee.? I cant find it. It looks like my holiday will be on and Im seriously thinking of buying one.


There are loads of different brands on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=she-wee&i=drugstore&page=2&qid=1592678373&ref=sr_pg_2
I bought a 'just-in-case' device last yeay before going to France remembering their toilet arrangements, I haven't needed to use it yet but it's handy to have. Squatting and I are not happening !


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> @MollySmith was it in this thread where you gave a link to a she wee.? I cant find it. It looks like my holiday will be on and Im seriously thinking of buying one.


oh gosh I don't know, this is it and I think @Boxer123 commented on them https://www.shewee.com/


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> oh gosh I don't know, this is it and I think @Boxer123 commented on them https://www.shewee.com/


Sadly yes I hate these things  I will be driving to York in August with my legs crossed.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> Sadly yes I hate these things  I will be driving to York in August with my legs crossed.


Oh bless you, I can't say I'm keen. We're meant to be driving from Cambridge to Penzance in October, I'm hoping it'll be a bit safer then. Staying there is manageable- I know it well to avoid risk - but getting there is a worry.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Relation of OH who works on Covid wards is expecting a surge.
> He hasn't seen his vulnerable wife since early March and it doesn't look as if he'll see her for some months yet!


The staff here in the hospital are all expecting to see a rise too. They seem to be clearing out the wards and only doing essential work. There's hardly anyone in this ward now. I overheard that the only routine Orthopaedic op they are planning to do are athroscopies.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> oh gosh I don't know, this is it and I think @Boxer123 commented on them https://www.shewee.com/


Thanks! Just in case! Cambridge to Penzance, that's along way.
All being well, I'm going to the Wye valley . Ive been told services are open on Motorways but if they are making people queue, it might be a long wait.

ETA Im just ordering one on Amazon. It's says new and *used* !  I really don't think I'll be ordering a used one :Hilarious


----------



## Lurcherlad

I managed when I had to wait in the car for 5 hours while OH had chemo.

A suitably sized/shaped container, loose clothing, modesty blanket over lap and squeezed forward into the footwell of the car to a suitable position 

(Having checked for CCTV cameras nearby )


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> I managed when I had to wait in the car for 5 hours while OH had chemo.
> 
> A suitably sized/shaped container, loose clothing, modesty blanket over lap and squeezed forward into the footwell of the car to a suitable position
> 
> (Having checked for CCTV cameras nearby )


It's something I may have to consider getting in the future as our journey to Suffolk can be over 4 hours. I guess it's easier to use if the car is still?

Thanks for the description on how to use, there must be a lot of wriggling involved using it though, (I'm thinking pants and trousers, currently wearing elastic waisted jogging bottoms as easy to wear and slide down for loo visits).
I'm probably overthinking. There's a suitable place to stop midway to Suffolk that's great for the dog and has good toilets. I've now got a blue badge so will be able to park closer to the cafe block and use the crutches to get in. Trouble is my mind is stuck in how mobile I am now just 2 and a half weeks after the op rather then what I could be like in a month or twos time.
Whenever I get a 'poor me' thought, I've only got to look at the lady in the next bed who had the same cancer as me and has had a full leg amputation. She's only 55 and devastated. There but for fortune.........


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> Thanks! Just in case! Cambridge to Penzance, that's along way.
> All being well, I'm going to the Wye valley . Ive been told services are open on Motorways but if they are making people queue, it might be a long wait.
> 
> ETA Im just ordering one on Amazon. It's says new and *used* !  I really don't think I'll be ordering a used one :Hilarious


Hahahah! Ewwwwwwww, used!

We've already agreed we will lose the deposit over travelling if we're not sure. My parents are meant to be coming but right now I guess not because we don't share a house. I just can't see it getting any better by October. I'm unlikely to see the inside of the University where I teach until September at the earliest. It's a Big Birthday year for me so we've booked some really nice places - oh well!


----------



## lorilu

We're in what's called "phase 3" in my area as of Friday. However after all the protests two weeks ago we have had several localized "outbreaks": confirmed cases (and deaths) popping up in various places.

I've just caught up on this thread, ahd to read 6 pages lol.



rona said:


> Is this an actual thing?
> 
> It might explain my OHs incessantly badgering me for what I want to buy via internet
> I think he's run out of stuff for himself, so wants me to start spending now. Every time I even hint that something would be useful, even as a joke, he's on his computer and looking it up. I can be engrossed in something else and he'll start waffling on about some useless piece of junk to buy
> He has been known to change our Tesco order several times in one week too
> 
> Sometimes we have 3-4 parcels arrive in one day. Is that when he's really stressed?


Yes, stress shopping is actually a thing.



Jesthar said:


> My work desktop doesn't have a webcam - I could attend meetings in my undies and no-one would know


I told my boss I don't have a web cam on my computer. I do, but it's covered up in tape. I feel it is a harmless lie. I am just not doing it.



kimthecat said:


> Good news.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281
> 
> The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.
> 
> The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.
> 
> It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
> 
> *Had the drug had been used to treat patients in the UK from the start of the pandemic, up to 5,000 lives could have been saved, researchers say.*
> 
> .


There hardly seems any point in researchers saying things like that. No one knew if could be used.



Cully said:


> Aw bless your Mrs F, most of mine come from the 1990's.:Bag


Mine too. I never buy new clothes unless I need to replace something that has finally given up the effort. 



kimthecat said:


> Ive still wear my 80s clothes.


I was a skinny little thing in the 80s, so that wouldn't work for me. Well I have a couple of cardigans and I can still wear if I don't want to button them. But I'm a bit more padded than I was then. Not unhappily so (or unhealthily), but still, I'd never get into a pair of jeans I wore when I was 25.


----------



## kimthecat

lorilu said:


> I was a skinny little thing in the 80s, so that wouldn't work for me. Well I have a couple of cardigans and I can still wear if I don't want to button them. But I'm a bit more padded than I was then. Not unhappily so (or unhealthily), but still, I'd never get into a pair of jeans I wore when I was 25.


I was skinny too, Actually, only the jumpers and tops fit , I never thought I; reached the stage where I'd say Does my bum look big in this !


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> Mine too. I never buy new clothes unless I need to replace something that has finally given up the effort.
> 
> I was a skinny little thing in the 80s, so that wouldn't work for me. Well I have a couple of cardigans and I can still wear if I don't want to button them. But I'm a bit more padded than I was then. Not unhappily so (or unhealthily), but still, *I'd never get into a pair of jeans I wore when I was 25*.


 I wouldn't wear jeans or trousers anymore, I just stick to wearing skirts and tee-shirts they hide all my lumps and bumps.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> There are loads of different brands on Amazon.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=she-wee&i=drugstore&page=2&qid=1592678373&ref=sr_pg_2
> I bought a 'just-in-case' device last yeay before going to France remembering their toilet arrangements, I haven't needed to use it yet but it's handy to have. Squatting and I are not happening !


Yes , Its just in case for me too. usually I dont drink before I go out but the journey is about 3 hours with stops. Gone are the days when I was driving all day and I could hold it. I can't squat either !



mrs phas said:


> not to answer for her
> but theres this one
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shewee-506...ocphy=1007131&hvtargid=pla-306070502605&psc=1


Thanks , i ordered that one.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> Gone are the days when I was driving all day and I could hold it. I can't squat either !


Im brilliant at squatting...I still cant pee behind a bush without getting it all over my underwear though! (seriously I could take them off and throw them in a tree and Id probably still get wee on them!!LOL:Hilarious).


----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> Im brilliant at squatting...I still cant pee behind a bush without getting it all over my underwear though! (seriously I could take them off and throw them in a tree and Id probably still get wee on them!!LOL:Hilarious).


:Hilarious


----------



## Babyshoes

Growing up in Africa, I learned to stop on the side of the road close to a dense bush, wall etc. Make sure no one is around - not usually an issue in rural areas. Then you open both front and back doors on the side away from the road. They should ideally nearly touch the bush you've stopped next to. You use the cill of the car between the doors to perch the edge of your bum on while you wee. It's a bit low, but not quite squatting as you have a bit on the car to support you. 

Alternatively, if you'd rather find a secluded area to use, a nice big tree is useful to lean your back against. Put your feet as far from you as possible and you'll have less chance of catching your clothing!


----------



## lorilu

catz4m8z said:


> Im brilliant at squatting...I still cant pee behind a bush without getting it all over my underwear though! (seriously I could take them off and throw them in a tree and Id probably still get wee on them!!LOL:Hilarious).


I pee on my hiking boots too often. They are water proof, thankfully, it beads up and rolls off.


----------



## lorilu

Babyshoes said:


> Growing up in Africa, I learned to stop on the side of the road close to a dense bush, wall etc. Make sure no one is around - not usually an issue in rural areas. Then you open both front and back doors on the side away from the road. They should ideally nearly touch the bush you've stopped next to. You use the cill of the car between the doors to perch the edge of your bum on while you wee. It's a bit low, but not quite squatting as you have a bit on the car to support you.
> 
> Alternatively, if you'd rather find a secluded area to use, a nice big tree is useful to lean your back against. Put your feet as far from you as possible and you'll have less chance of catching your clothing!


If I tried to lean on something when squatting outdoors to pee I'd never be able to get up I don't think, I'd end up falling into the puddle. I prefer to squat and self support. However I do use the open both doors trick when I have to pull into a pull off on a long trip, to keep me from being visible to the passing cars. Not that anyone would be interested in seeing that, but the semblance of privacy makes it easier for me to go.


----------



## Siskin

This thread has wandered off into some interesting territory. Anyone looking at the title and going to the latest pages would get a surprise.


----------



## MollySmith

Sobering and back on track, this from Twitter today about virus outbreaks at meat packing plants in Germany and U.K. Matt Hancock vaguely mentioned this in his latest briefing and there is a bit more info here if anyone feels they want to know more.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274688043937644545


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Sobering and back on track, this from Twitter today about virus outbreaks at meat packing plants in Germany and U.K. Matt Hancock vaguely mentioned this in his latest briefing and there is a bit more info here if anyone feels they want to know more.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274688043937644545


Anyone who thinks we can relax is an idiot. The virus is still there all around us. In Hungary for example where the wearing of masks is still compulsory and life for the past three weeks has been nearly back to as normal as it can be, new cases are now on the increase again.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-l...er&r=1716851686119692&lid=1518692&pm_ln=34312

*Coronavirus latest: German reproduction rate spikes 60% in a day*


----------



## Gemmaa

I think the comment section on the Daily Fail is actually a good way to judge how sensible the general, ignorant, population are being about Covid...it doesn't look good, to be honest!

Sensible people appear to be viewed as "bed wetters" & sheep, and we should hide inside so that everyone else can get on living life normally....sorry I don't want to play Viral Russian Roulette .


----------



## kimthecat

Gemmaa said:


> I think the comment section on the Daily Fail is actually a good way to judge how sensible the general, ignorant, population are being about Covid...it doesn't look good, to be honest!
> 
> .


Not really. Twitter is a better way to judge how sensible the population is.You get all views. I dont think it's sensible to judge a nation on some comments posted on one rag. How do you view the recent demonstrations ? ignorance or knowledgeably breaking the rules?


----------



## Boxer123

I’m lucky I’m stil working from home so won’t change what I’m doing. Food being delivered I’m not going in a shop or a pub no thank you. I have friends coming to sit in the garden Saturday I’ve not seen them for six months very excited. I’ve ordered plastic wine glasses and single bags of crisps. 

My mum works at the doctors and it is felt that although people are getting the virus still it seems to be a bit milder and not making people as sick. (Please note my mum is not a doctor or scientist purely anecdotal)


----------



## Siskin

I will definitely not be going out anywhere for quite a while. I want to heal without the complications of getting the virus. I could easily sit indoors and a friend sit on the patio in the garden and we could have a shouted conversation, I reckon that will be the nearest I will get to anyone. I will need to exercise more in order to improve my strength in the leg however. We live in an isolated quiet village and I wouldn’t feel I was exposing myself to risk if I walked up and down the road now and again.


----------



## catz4m8z

It is abit of a worry about the meat packing plants having infection outbreaks. Especially if it is partially due to the colder temperatures they operate under...makes you think the chances of a winter spike are more likely.
If thats the case then TBH it might be better to get out there and live your life now whilst the virus is weaker in the hot weather then hole up in the winter months!
We have to start going to work and shopping, etc again because you cant stop an entire country indefinately (doesnt work economically or socially). I know a few of my elderly relatives are so scared they have refused to go out at all since March! At this point Im more worried about their lack of mobility and emotional wellbeing then I am about the virus getting them!


----------



## Gemmaa

kimthecat said:


> Not really. Twitter is a better way to judge how sensible the population is.You get all views. I dont think it's sensible to judge a nation on some comments posted on one rag. How do you view the recent demonstrations ? ignorance or knowledgeably breaking the rules?


I'm only going by the idiots at the moment, because they seem to closely match what I'm seeing in my local area .
I do appreciate that on the whole, most people are being sensible about it.
I just find it interesting, and worrying, how people have gone from panic buying and being quite terrified, to comments like this one:
"_Sheeple queuing to hand over their DNA! #Agenda21_" ....being genuine, and upvoted.

**ETA: I'm not saying we should go back to panic buying and fear.


----------



## kimthecat

Gemmaa said:


> I'm only going by the idiots at the moment, because they seem to closely match what I'm seeing in my local area .
> I do appreciate that on the whole, most people are being sensible about it.
> I just find it interesting, and worrying, how people have gone from panic buying and being quite terrified, to comments like this one:
> "_Sheeple queuing to hand over their DNA! #Agenda21_" ....being genuine, and upvoted.
> 
> **ETA: I'm not saying we should go back to panic buying and fear.


Sheeple ! I like that word though it's unfair to sheep.


----------



## kimthecat

So, holidays! It is on for us , and the good news is we had a rebate of £120 because the facilities are still closed except the shop . We've booked a lodge and there is plenty of space between them. They will be sending instructions on contactless booking in so feel confident that we are safe. 
Shewee in the post!


----------



## Siskin

Our caravan site has had notice that they might not be able to open on July the 4th after all which they are getting cross about especially as pubs and restaurants may be opening by then. There is a legal limit of how close caravans and statics can be, and it’s far more then the 2m social distancing limit. On the site where we have our static many of the vans are at least 6mtrs apart, especially ours which is more then that. We all have our water and sewage supplies, no shared facilities, it seems odd that holiday parks can’t open. We are all being encouraged to write to our MP’s for a whinge about the situation.


----------



## ForestWomble

Came on to update myself and was reading a load of posts about peeing in the great outdoors, wondered if I hadn't got up yet and was having a very strange dream :Wideyed :Hilarious


----------



## westie~ma

Siskin said:


> Our caravan site has had notice that they might not be able to open on July the 4th after all which they are getting cross about especially as pubs and restaurants may be opening by then. There is a legal limit of how close caravans and statics can be, and it's far more then the 2m social distancing limit. On the site where we have our static many of the vans are at least 6mtrs apart, especially ours which is more then that. We all have our water and sewage supplies, no shared facilities, it seems odd that holiday parks can't open. We are all being encouraged to write to our MP's for a whinge about the situation.


Is this more to do with touring vans and tents rather than statics?

If the site is only statics it should be safe.

In Wales from 13th July self contained holiday accommodation can open. Owners can use the time beforehand to prep. I can officially now travel to my cottage to do my lawns. Up to now we've been on a 5 mile restriction.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. We have a case of CV in a local small village. First case in weeks. The man went to a busy music night in the local pub, they’re trying to trace everyone. All the cafes/ pubs in the village closed by council as a precaution, allowed to reopen in a few days. Man doesn’t know where/ who he got it from.

Scary.


----------



## Siskin

westie~ma said:


> Is this more to do with touring vans and tents rather than statics?
> 
> If the site is only statics it should be safe.
> 
> In Wales from 13th July self contained holiday accommodation can open. Owners can use the time beforehand to prep. I can officially now travel to my cottage to do my lawns. Up to now we've been on a 5 mile restriction.


From what I can gather from an email that came this morning from the site manager it's static sites as well. The owner is very unhappy and has written a cross email to his local mp trying to explain how our site in particular being owner occupied as opposed to ones that are holiday let's and the vans are very spread out. Our site is static only no campers etc


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Came on to update myself and was reading a load of posts about peeing in the great outdoors, wondered if I hadn't got up yet and was having a very strange dream :Wideyed :Hilarious


:Hilarious and the other thread ( one rule for us ) has goats in it. Goat photos that is , we dont have any goats as members as far as I know .
.


----------



## kimthecat

On the BBC red button news it said Rats in South Asia harbour multiple corona viruses. They pick up the virus when they are moved around. So stopping live markets in that areas would help stop the spread of the virus in the future.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious and the other thread ( one rule for us ) has goats in it. Goat photos that is , we dont have any goats as members as far as I know .
> .


Careful, you shouldnt presume how any of our members want to identify
perhaps LGBTQ+ should also have a G in there, for self identifying as Goat
youll be outed as anti transanimals if your not careful


----------



## MollySmith

I was going to go out to get a pot for the garden today but I felt too worried. I've got this far being well that I don't want to risk it and could feel the creep of complacency.

Edited, video on the other thread this isn't the Cummings one.... god I am sooooo confused!


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> Careful, you shouldnt presume how any of our members want to identify
> perhaps LGBTQ+ should also have a G in there, for self identifying as Goat
> youll be outed as anti transanimals if your not careful


Its called trans-species and it's a thing. Twitch recently caused a storm using a man who identifies as a transwoman who identifies as a male deer as part of a group to moderate twitch. He put out a grinning threatening video and I'm sorry, it's either for effect, or he's totally bonkers.


----------



## Elles

MollySmith said:


> I was going to go out to get a pot for the garden today but I felt too worried. I've got this far being well that I don't want to risk it and could feel the creep of complacency.
> 
> Edited, video on the other thread this isn't the Cummings one.... god I am sooooo confused!


Don't know really, we can take at least some responsibility for ourselves and when people are going out protesting, there seems little point in continuing with a tough lockdown.


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> Don't know really, we can take at least some responsibility for ourselves and when people are going out protesting, there seems little point in continuing with a tough lockdown.


Exactly.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Careful, you shouldnt presume how any of our members want to identify
> perhaps LGBTQ+ should also have a G in there, for self identifying as Goat
> youll be outed as anti transanimals if your not careful





Elles said:


> Its called trans-species and it's a thing. Twitch recently caused a storm using a man who identifies as a transwoman who identifies as a male deer as part of a group to moderate twitch. He put out a grinning threatening video and I'm sorry, it's either for effect, or he's totally bonkers.


Lets not forget Sheeple ! 

!


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious and the other thread ( one rule for us ) has goats in it. Goat photos that is , we dont have any goats as members as far as I know .
> .


I saw the goats, a great video posted by rona, I was watching the video like this: :Woot They are such happy little things and I love their noise. 

We need a happy goats thread. Or just happy animals in general thread. We all need a smile.


----------



## Jaf

I have a goat herder locally. Often look down the valley and see them. Never see them up the trees though!


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> Don't know really, we can take at least some responsibility for ourselves and when people are going out protesting, there seems little point in continuing with a tough lockdown.


I feel like a garden centre is bigger risk.


----------



## lorilu

ForestWomble said:


> Came on to update myself and was reading a load of posts about peeing in the great outdoors, wondered if I hadn't got up yet and was having a very strange dream :Wideyed :Hilarious


I had actually forgotten what thread I was in while involved in that discussion. It got started about someone having to drive somewhere a long way I think?


----------



## lorilu

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious and the other thread ( one rule for us ) has goats in it. Goat photos that is , we dont have any goats as members as far as I know .
> .


Just one quick comment on this then I promise not to derail the thread on this subject. I enjoyed the goats. They usually showed up during contentious threads where someone was being ridiculous in some way. I wondered if they had been banned by mods or something.


----------



## lorilu

I am back at work daily, , but still on flex time to at least the end of the month. It's working out GREAT for me, this flexibility, since I've just bought a house and have a lot of running around to do. I go in and work 7:30-12:30, then do any running around I have to do, and then finish my work at home in the later afternoon or evening. It's so nice, because normally I would have had to use my vacation time for all this running around PLUS I would get behind in my work. With the working from home still available, I can make up the hours, and stay on top of everything (and save my vacation time for fun stuff).

This may change July 1st though,but we haven't been told yet. Once we are open to the public. Communication is so poor, there are people in the building who (at least they claim) were not told we are not accepting payments from customers who come to the door and pound on it, or pound on our windows and demand we take their money. Everything has to go through the mail, and be sanitized before it is brought to us.

I'm pretty sure everyone who works in the building got an e mail about this a few weeks ago, but they claim they weren't told.


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> Anyone who thinks we can relax is an idiot. The virus is still there all around us. In Hungary for example where the wearing of masks is still compulsory and life for the past three weeks has been nearly back to as normal as it can be, new cases are now on the increase again.
> 
> https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-l...er&r=1716851686119692&lid=1518692&pm_ln=34312
> 
> *Coronavirus latest: German reproduction rate spikes 60% in a day*


It feels endless doesn't it? Take care and stay safe


----------



## kimthecat

Coming soon to a cinema near you . Carry On Shielding !  
So , a letter from the Government today stating that the rules are changing but advises to follow the shielding guide rigorously.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

kimthecat said:


> Coming soon to a cinema near you . Carry On Shielding !
> So , a letter from the Government today stating that the rules are changing but advises to follow the shielding guide rigorously.


I suppose they have to officially tell all those shielding that it is coming to an end so they can prepare, its all in the news I know but I would expect a letter.


----------



## Calvine

Gemmaa said:


> panic buying


I read that in areas where there has been a ''spike'' they are stocking up on toilet rolls again Groan.


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> Don't know really, we can take at least some responsibility for ourselves and when people are going out protesting, there seems little point in continuing with a tough lockdown.


I was in a supermarket yesterday and was quite shocked how many people just pushed past, and kids whizzing round on scooters. The only thing they seemed to observe were the markings outside and by the tills. Other than that it was a free for all.


----------



## kimthecat

3dogs2cats said:


> I suppose they have to officially tell all those shielding that it is coming to an end so they can prepare, its all in the news I know but I would expect a letter.


Ive not read the whole letter yet. it looks very detailed which is good, I sort of lost track of what was happening.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> I was in a supermarket yesterday and was quite shocked how many people just pushed past, and kids whizzing round on scooters. The only thing they seemed to observe were the markings outside and by the tills. Other than that it was a free for all.


Yes been like that since lockdown where I am. People are using the one way system to some extent but like to send children of about 9 years of age to run and pick up food they need if they have missed it, banging into trolleys.
In Tesco it's one person per household with certain exclusions which I am fine with so people just queue separate and get two trolleys, block isles or loiter more. I just want to shop and go the quicker I am out the safer I feel.

I don't know if it's because my area hasn't been affect by Covid-19 as much and people are complacent or they don't care really. 
I know my sons friend who has been trying to manage social distancing in the shop say they are pretty powerless to do anything, he's got no end of abuse and they have let lots more people in to shop as lockdown has gone on.. He puts that down to greed on his employers part though.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> I read that in areas where there has been a ''spike'' they are stocking up on toilet rolls again Groan.


I did actually expect that this might happen. It's inevitable really considering the 'new found freedom' and increase in flouting distancing rules. Having just got a reliable weekly Tesco delivery I'm really worried there will be delivery slot problems again.


----------



## mrs phas

bJ reckons hes not in Trumps poscket
strange how pubs cafes, restaraunts cinemas, hairdressers, visiting other homes etc are set to open on one of the biggest American holidays there is
the day we handed the colonies to them :Facepalm:Shifty:Shifty
and 
BJ trial of herd immunity comes into force on 1st aug, when those who have successfully isolated for, around, 16-ish weeks, are forced to re-enter full society, shopping and back to work, at 1m distancing
ill be sticking with home delivery and going out as minimally as humanly possible
got used to it now


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> ill be sticking with home delivery and going out as minimally as humanly possible
> got used to it now


Me too, but more because I'm really afraid of doing anything else.


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> BJ trial of herd immunity comes into force on 1st aug, when those who have successfully isolated for, around, 16-ish weeks, are forced to re-enter full society, shopping and back to work, at 1m distancing


No-one is forcing anyone and it's 1m plus.


----------



## Boxer123

It’s so difficult to know what to do. If we don’t open up we will go bust. Children are struggling without school. I do feel lots of mistakes were made initially which has lead us to have such a high level of transmission. 

I still won’t be going in a pub or on an aeroplane but it’s all personal choice.


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve been buying vouchers from my hairdresser and for independent takeaways or click or collect but I’m not going out. We are agreed in this house that this is the safest way. It will help small businesses and gives us something to look forward to. We love our local. The landlords are very good friends but nope, not changing unless essential.

But Chris Witty is very sobering about the solutions, he said we will live this for a long time. At some point I guess we will change habits but I want to see what Germany etc do first. I absolutely understand and appreciate if we don’t go out, many small businesses will struggle.


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> No-one is forcing anyone and it's 1m plus.


In addition, I think it is reprehensible of the media to headline the changes as "PM axes 2m rule" or "Johnson ditches 2m rule".

This is NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING!

Then that Laura wotsit from the BBC comes on and has the absolute gall to ask the PM if he is willing to take responsibility for any upshot from the changes.

When they have *not ditched the 2m rule*.

The press need to wind their bloody necks in sometimes.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> It's so difficult to know what to do. If we don't open up we will go bust. Children are struggling without school. I do feel lots of mistakes were made initially which has lead us to have such a high level of transmission.
> 
> I still won't be going in a pub or on an aeroplane but it's all personal choice.


Absolutely agree, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I feel strongly feel other countries tackled it better.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Absolutely agree, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I feel strongly feel other countries tackled it better.


From a local point of view. I think that Wales, Scotland and NI have used England as a guinea pig and waited to see what the effect would be here. When what they should have been doing as the less populated countries should have been to lead the charge.

Of course they also have less 'dense' economy hits that they would be taking so that's probably why they were a little cowardly in their approaches.

I'm not sure what other countries have done 'better'. I think it's been very difficult - and different - everywhere.

Edit to add, maybe cowardly isn't the right word, but it has annoyed me greatly that they just follow England once they realise that they can get away with it.


----------



## MollySmith

The ambiguity - and we are listening to the briefing now - will confuse people. I haven't ready any papers. The guidance from the conference right now is 2 metres, but 1 metre with masks and environmental management (whatever that is).

Now Chris Witty says it's a balance of risk and can be withdrawn. But in my opinion, it's now placing this responsibility back to us, yes we must but it feels like we're placing so much trust in each other and I just can't do that. I'm concerned that it's a way for this government to wiggle out of some poor decisions based on their past record lately - _in my opinion (knowing we all think differently politically)_

But the difference between Witty and Johnson is palpable. Johnson 'can't wait to go to a pub' with 1 metre or more. Witty very very very cautious. I'm astonished by the question from some reporter (not sure who) asking should families celebrate 4th July.... utterly insensitive and fortunately has been shut down by Witty saying the virus is likely to be here next year. But.... I question why a Saturday. It seems like a disaster. Less people will go out on Monday if they are working from home or returning to walk.

Boris wants to play village cricket, be warned.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> Then that Laura wotsit from the BBC comes on and has the absolute gall to ask the PM if he is willing to take responsibility for any upshot from the changes.


If I've noticed anything through this debacle it's that individuals (maybe fuelled by journalists) don't want to think for themselves or take responsibility for their own actions. I feel deeply for those who are shielding with conditions which are no fault of their own and who are now stuck between a rock and a hard place over being forced back to their jobs or being unemployed. Everyone else, absolutely everyone else, can do as they please, take whatever precautions they please. They just have to make the decisions instead of expecting instructions from daily briefings.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> From a local point of view. I think that Wales, Scotland and NI have used England as a guinea pig and waited to see what the effect would be here. When what they should have been doing as the less populated countries should have been to lead the charge.
> 
> Of course they also have less 'dense' economy hits that they would be taking so that's probably why they were a little cowardly in their approaches.
> 
> I'm not sure what other countries have done 'better'. I think it's been very difficult - and different - everywhere.
> 
> Edit to add, maybe cowardly isn't the right word, but it has annoyed me greatly that they just follow England once they realise that they can get away with it.


For example, Australia and New Zealand had quarantine for people coming in from countries since March. We began that weeks ago.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> The ambiguity - and we are listening to the briefing now - will confuse people. I haven't ready any papers. The guidance from the conference right now is 2 metres, but 1 metre with masks and environmental management (whatever that is).
> 
> Now Chris Witty says it's a balance of risk and can be withdrawn. But in my opinion, it's now placing this responsibility back to us, yes we must but it feels like we're placing so much trust in each other and I just can't do that. I'm concerned that it's a way for this government to wiggle out of some poor decisions based on their past record lately - _in my opinion (knowing we all think differently politically)_
> 
> But the difference between Witty and Johnson is palpable. Johnson 'can't wait to go to a pub' with 1 metre or more. Witty very very very cautious. I'm astonished by the question from some reporter (not sure who) asking should families celebrate 4th July.... utterly insensitive and fortunately has been shut down by Witty saying the virus is likely to be here next year. But.... I question why a Saturday. It seems like a disaster. Less people will go out on Monday if they are working from home or returning to walk.
> 
> Boris wants to play village cricket, be warned.


Oh come on, those things that Boris said were in response to specific questions from the press. Trying to get him to say exactly those things so people can say exactly what you are saying!

There is no ambiguity. 2m unless it is impossible in which case you need to mitigate your behaviour.

People need to listen to the experts rather than the press. Isn't that what was continually spouted during the Brexit stuff?


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> Oh come on, those things that Boris said were in response to specific questions from the press. Trying to get him to say exactly those things so people can say exactly what you are saying!
> 
> There is no ambiguity. 2m unless it is impossible in which case you need to mitigate your behaviour.
> 
> People need to listen to the experts rather than the press. Isn't that what was continually spouted during the Brexit stuff?


Edit to add, environmental management are things like ventilation and looking at which way you are facing - taken from the briefing.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Oh come on, those things that Boris said were in response to specific questions from the press. Trying to get him to say exactly those things so people can say exactly what you are saying!
> 
> There is no ambiguity. 2m unless it is impossible in which case you need to mitigate your behaviour.
> 
> People need to listen to the experts rather than the press. Isn't that what was continually spouted during the Brexit stuff?


as I said in my opinion.


----------



## MilleD

.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> But in my opinion, it's now placing this responsibility back to us, yes we must but it feels like we're placing so much trust in each other and I just can't do that


It always has been.. No matter who is leading the country its our action as a population that matters.

A date is a date.. Gives places time to prepare to open and plan. Are statistics worked Friday to Friday, I don't know I don't work for national statistics.


----------



## Siskin

Why are they going on about celebrating the 4th of July as if the Brits do it every year. I don’t suppose there are many that do, I suspect it’s only Americans living in the country that do so


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Why are they going on about celebrating the 4th of July as if the Brits do it every year. I don't suppose there are many that do, I suspect it's only Americans living in the country that do so


They weren't really. It was the press winding up the job.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

So pleased they have let pubs, cafes and restaurants have customers inside, I was concerned if only outdoors many would not be able to open. Feel sorry for the remaining businesses that are still not allowed to open though, but thank goodness they haven`t gone with that awful idea having to chose just one other household to bubble up with! It was bad enough for single households having to decide who they were going to bubble up with let alone asking whole family groups just to chose one other family group. Much more sensible to allow household to mix and match who they visit so long as only two households are in the house at the same time.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> If I've noticed anything through this debacle it's that individuals (maybe fuelled by journalists) don't want to think for themselves or take responsibility for their own actions. I feel deeply for those who are shielding with conditions which are no fault of their own and who are now stuck between a rock and a hard place over being forced back to their jobs or being unemployed. Everyone else, absolutely everyone else, can do as they please, take whatever precautions they please. They just have to make the decisions instead of expecting instructions from daily briefings.


Weird isn't it, how people need to be told everything and have someone else to blame?
I went into my surgery the other day and got the procedure wrong, said to the receptionist that there are new ways to get used to and her reply was "It's not new, it's been like this for weeks" 
Well, it's new to me, I hadn't set foot inside a property that wasn't mine or my one friends since before lock down. I was only there because I had to, otherwise no way would I.

I buy from the local pet shop and they are still bringing the order out to my car, we do click and collect shopping and I haven't eaten anything cooked by someone else since January.

No hardship to me, I'm out a lot, walking, Kayaking, photography.

I'm truly sorry for those that have to work when they still have sincere worries and high risk


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Why are they going on about celebrating the 4th of July as if the Brits do it every year. I don't suppose there are many that do, I suspect it's only Americans living in the country that do so


exactly
why would we celebrate a senseless war that we lost
it makes no sense to pick that as a date
as someone else said above, start of the week would be better, ease the punters back in slowly, not a saturday when everyone is going to be out getting smashed
lets go back to the begining of lockdown
it was just the_* rumour*_ of lockdown coming, that set everyone going into pubs/nightclubs like beer had run dry, shoulder to shoulder and no care for anyone else
i can see a repeat of this happening, simply because it will be a saturday
AND
the first saturday after most people have been paid

second wave here we come


----------



## lullabydream

mrs phas said:


> rumour of lockdown coming that set everyone going into pubs/nightclubs like beer had run dry, shoulder to shoulder and no care for anyone else


It wasn't a rumour lockdown was coming it was the last day of opening that set every body out to the pubs, even though Boris said please don't. 
Yes people were utterly stupid running for a final night out, I don't know what he thought he was accomplishing allowing one final night


----------



## shadowmare

We have a training session on Friday before the restaurant opens in a couple of weeks. My anxiety went through the roof just thinking about going back to work.


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> It wasn't a rumour lockdown was coming it was the last day of opening that set every body out to the pubs, even though Boris said please don't.
> Yes people were utterly stupid running for a final night out, I don't know what he thought he was accomplishing allowing one final night


A journalist asked at the briefing about 4th July and if people should celebrate the release of lockdown. As I said above, I question the wisdom of choosing a Saturday night.


----------



## MollySmith

shadowmare said:


> We have a training session on Friday before the restaurant opens in a couple of weeks. My anxiety went through the roof just thinking about going back to work.


(Hugs) I hope it goes as well as it can and goes to alleviating your worries.


----------



## MollySmith

@kimthecat we we're talking about A House Through Time? I am watching the third episode with Owen and Louisa Pow and the sad death of their first baby from tubercular meningitis. They talked about mourning her, and the public health crisis. It parallels with COVID-19 (just as the very existence of the house comes from the slave trade). Such a strange time to watch this programme, it's like history repeating itself and finding ourselves caught short again somehow.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> @kimthecat we we're talking about A House Through Time? I am watching the third episode with Owen and Louisa Pow and the sad death of their first baby from tubercular meningitis. They talked about mourning her, and the public health crisis. It parallels with COVID-19 (just as the very existence of the house comes from the slave trade). Such a strange time to watch this programme, it's like history repeating itself and finding ourselves caught short again somehow.


Yes , we did talk about it. I saw that episode, it was very sad. Eerie. Nothing really changes.


----------



## Magic Waves

I know this mixing is happening to soon in my eyes especially when family and friends have had it and they've sounded terrible after recovery..i had the granddaughter come today with her dad, well i'm still in isolation being on chemo med and i soon had her put on foot coverings and told her not to touch no where, so she could see my fish.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> As I said above, I question the wisdom of choosing a Saturday night


What's the significance of a Saturday night when the majority aren't back at work yet? Weekends haven't been anything special for months. There's going to be a rush for the pub no matter what day it happens.


----------



## havoc

shadowmare said:


> We have a training session on Friday before the restaurant opens in a couple of weeks. My anxiety went through the roof just thinking about going back to work.


I feel for you. It's going to be hard but I think every day in isolation makes it harder to return to normal. I've always been antisocial and am now damn close to agoraphobic. I wish the things I love to do would open back up but they won't any time soon and I wonder if I'll be in a fit state mentally to bother even with them once I could again.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> A journalist asked at the briefing about 4th July and if people should celebrate the release of lockdown. As I said above, I question the wisdom of choosing a Saturday night.


I really hope people don't go crazy with fireworks because of the (almost) end of lockdown. . . in addition to the usual 4th July fireworks which are really bad here for some reason. It must terrify wildlife, cats and the like. Some people will make any occasion an excuse to waste money on lighting up the night sky.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> What's the significance of a Saturday night when the majority aren't back at work yet? Weekends haven't been anything special for months. There's going to be a rush for the pub no matter what day it happens.


There are a fair few people working from home. Almost all the University support staff here, most businesses with office staff which have a remote working infrastructure. I don't think it's an unreasonable observation.


----------



## MollySmith

FFS Daily Wail


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> I really hope people don't go crazy with fireworks because of the (almost) end of lockdown. . . in addition to the usual 4th July fireworks which are really bad here for some reason. It must terrify wildlife, cats and the like. Some people will make any occasion an excuse to waste money on lighting up the night sky.


I know, I hope not too. It really pissed me off during the clapping as well.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I know, I hope not too. It really pissed me off during the clapping as well


It used to develop into a noisy street party outside my house every Thursday and I hated it. Maybe not such a bad thing that they all piss off down the pub this time hey


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> It wasn't a rumour lockdown was coming it was the last day of opening that set every body out to the pubs, even though Boris said please don't.
> Yes people were utterly stupid running for a final night out, I don't know what he thought he was accomplishing allowing one final night


Probably quite difficult shutting down businesses without giving some notice?


havoc said:


> I feel for you. It's going to be hard but I think every day in isolation makes it harder to return to normal. I've always been antisocial and am now damn close to agoraphobic. I wish the things I love to do would open back up but they won't any time soon and I wonder if I'll be in a fit state mentally to bother even with them once I could again.


You used to go to the gym a lot didn't you? Any idea when they might be able to open? I know that PureGym put out a video of the things they are doing to make it safer there. They must feel like they are really being singled out.


----------



## Cully

Celebrating lockdown ending is a very bad idea. There have been strong warnings of a second wave and we should tread carefully. 
I think we will be really throwing caution to the wind risking seriously setting us back.
This morning the chief MO from the BMA said to expect a second wave in October.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Celebrating lockdown ending is a very bad idea. There have been strong warnings of a second wave and we should tread carefully.
> I think we will be really throwing caution to the wind risking seriously setting us back.
> This morning the chief MO from the BMA said to expect a second wave in October.


They know the virus prefers the cold so it would probably get 'stronger' as we head into autumn and winter.

They are still working on herd immunity at this point I reckon. Let the people who feel safe enough to, go out and mingle down the pub. They will all get it, perhaps asymptomatically, then once they've had it, if there are fewer people left who haven't had it to then get it and spread it during the colder months, then the increase shouldn't be as bad.

Or something


----------



## Cully

The colder months bring a higher number of patients into hospital with flu type illnesses and resulting complications. Add to those another wave of covid patients and we'll have a massively overstretched NHS.
I don't know if we can cope again, on any level.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> The colder months bring a higher number of patients into hospital with flu type illnesses and resulting complications. Add to those another wave of covid patients and we'll have a massively overstretched NHS.
> I don't know if we can cope again, on any level.


It does, which is why I think they want people to get it now. Before all the other seasonal illnesses kick in again.

I could be completely wrong but it does feel a little that way to me.


----------



## CollieSlave

MilleD said:


> *From a local point of view. I think that Wales, Scotland and NI have used England as a guinea pig and waited to see what the effect would be here*. When what they should have been doing as the less populated countries should have been to lead the charge.
> 
> Of course they also have less 'dense' economy hits that they would be taking so that's probably why they were a little cowardly in their approaches.
> 
> I'm not sure what other countries have done 'better'. I think it's been very difficult - and different - everywhere.
> 
> Edit to add, maybe cowardly isn't the right word, but it has annoyed me greatly that they just follow England once they realise that they can get away with it.


I live in Wales and have been much impressed by the careful approach to the virus compared to England! While BoJo allowed reckless and sweeping changes (travel as far as you like) the Welsh Government has been much more cautious - a five mile travel limit. Wales depends enormously on the tourist industry but so far there has been no reckless opening of tourist attractions, though it seems plans are in the pipeline for the carefully controlled opening of such attractions in future months. I do not see Wales' actions as using England as 'a guinea pig', policies applied in Wales to deal with the virus have been drawn up with great care to meet the perceived needs of Wales which are far different from England.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> You used to go to the gym a lot didn't you?


Small private gym - could be just me and my PT but I don't see that happening this year. Same with my other love - live music. Basically I wish I could hibernate as there's nothing worthwhile on my horizon


----------



## havoc

CollieSlave said:


> I do not see Wales' actions as using England as 'a guinea pig', policies applied in Wales to deal with the virus have been drawn up with great care to meet the perceived needs of Wales which are far different from England


And of course both Scotland and Wales can expect to demand money from England's opening of the economy while their own remains closed. They are in a win/win situation there.


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Small private gym - could be just me and my PT but I don't see that happening this year. Same with my other love - live music. Basically I wish I could hibernate as there's nothing worthwhile on my horizon


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> Celebrating lockdown ending is a very bad idea. There have been strong warnings of a second wave and we should tread carefully.
> I think we will be really throwing caution to the wind risking seriously setting us back.
> This morning the chief MO from the BMA said to expect a second wave in October.


The thing is, numpties will be numpties - they don't need permission 

I suspect those rushing to exchange air and particles in the pubs etc will have been flouting (if not stretching at least) the rules already.

I've witnessed people in my road breaking Lockdown regularly since it started. Needless to say I'm giving them a wide berth whenever I'm in the street (really only briefly to walk Jack or cycle).

Those of us who need to and can, should keep ourselves out of their orbit. At least until we know how things are going to go.

I have every sympathy for those who are being urged back to work etc. whilst feeling/being vulnerable, without "qualifying" as such.

We will certainly be staying out of circulation as much as possible for the foreseeable future.


----------



## JANICE199

CollieSlave said:


> I live in Wales and have been much impressed by the careful approach to the virus compared to England! While BoJo allowed reckless and sweeping changes (travel as far as you like) the Welsh Government has been much more cautious - a five mile travel limit. Wales depends enormously on the tourist industry but so far there has been no reckless opening of tourist attractions, though it seems plans are in the pipeline for the carefully controlled opening of such attractions in future months. I do not see Wales' actions as using England as 'a guinea pig', policies applied in Wales to deal with the virus have been drawn up with great care to meet the perceived needs of Wales which are far different from England.


*I have been keeping up with a lot of the news as regards to Wales. What baffles me is this, if everyone has been as careful as they are saying then why are the numbers so high in Wales? I have seen posters telling people going into Wales, to go home, police stopping motorists that are not from Wales, and sending them back home. Genuine question.*


----------



## LittleEms

Lurcherlad said:


> The thing is, numpties will be numpties - they don't need permission
> 
> I suspect those rushing to exchange air and particles in the pubs etc will have been flouting (if not stretching at least) the rules already.
> 
> I've witnessed people in my road breaking Lockdown regularly since it started. Needless to say I'm giving them a wide berth whenever I'm in the street (really only briefly to walk Jack or cycle).
> 
> Those of us who need to and can, should keep ourselves out of their orbit. At least until we know how things are going to go.
> 
> I have every sympathy for those who are being urged back to work etc. whilst feeling/being vulnerable, without "qualifying" as such.
> 
> We will certainly be staying out of circulation as much as possible for the foreseeable future.


We've had so many people flouting here too. I'm in the South West, right in between a bunch of tourist beach hotspots and it's been ridiculous. All the holiday let companies are opening up again next week and I am really quite worried about it. I have to work so will probably come across a lot of holidaymakers but will try and avoid where possible armed with my masks and hand gel! I have to look after my Nan occasionally who has cancer so the future is making me very nervous!


----------



## StormyThai

I won't be changing my actions for some time yet. People in my area have pretty much gone back to normal...very few are wearing masks in supermarkets or anywhere that we have been advised to wear them, no one is keeping their distance and the local fb groups are all excited about getting out to the pubs as if that's it...no more virus, jobs a good un' 

I'm just going to pop this here for those that are interested:
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> I'm just going to pop this here for those that are interested:
> https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650


The scientists have said from the start they don't know how long the antibodies will last.

But I guess if you have at least some, and it didn't kill you the first time round, it's less likely to the second.


----------



## lorilu

havoc said:


> I feel for you. It's going to be hard but I think every day in isolation makes it harder to return to normal. I've always been antisocial and am now damn close to agoraphobic. I wish the things I love to do would open back up but they won't any time soon and I wonder if I'll be in a fit state mentally to bother even with them once I could again.


That was my fear too, when we were in shelter at home phase. There was a period where I was afraid I would never leave my house again without a struggle. Thankfully I did get a grip on myself and started going out for a walk in the woods each day in a place where I knew I wouldn't meet anyone (it was still winter then) and each time I went out it got a little easier. Also when we returned to work in the office (I was working from home the whole time), it was done very gradually, first only one day a week, then two, now every day, but split, 5 hours in office and the rest from home.

Next week, supposedly it is all systems go back to normal. But we haven't had the final word on that yet. I dread when we open to the public again. ( I work in government and my job deals heavily with the public )

Incidentally I do notice that when I am on the phone with people they've all become very chatty (as have I) talking more about themselves than what is normal on a business call.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> I know, I hope not too. It really pissed me off during the clapping as well.


 Me too . . . I kept on trying to work out what they were celebrating.


----------



## Calvine

CollieSlave said:


> I live in Wales and have been much impressed by the careful approach to the virus compared to England! While BoJo allowed reckless and sweeping changes (travel as far as you like) the Welsh Government has been much more cautious - a five mile travel limit. Wales depends enormously on the tourist industry but so far there has been no reckless opening of tourist attractions, though it seems plans are in the pipeline for the carefully controlled opening of such attractions in future months. I do not see Wales' actions as using England as 'a guinea pig', policies applied in Wales to deal with the virus have been drawn up with great care to meet the perceived needs of Wales which are far different from England.


My friend is in Glasgow, and things are still very tightly controlled there too, apparently.


----------



## CollieSlave

JANICE199 said:


> *I have been keeping up with a lot of the news as regards to Wales. What baffles me is this, if everyone has been as careful as they are saying then why are the numbers so high in Wales? I have seen posters telling people going into Wales, to go home, police stopping motorists that are not from Wales, and sending them back home. Genuine question.*


The number of cases per 100,000 of the population _is _as you say, high in Wales. There are various factors at work: easily the highest number of cases is in the densely populated areas in the south and, to a lesser extent, urban areas in coastal North Wales (the numbers of cases are comparable with areas of England). But the overall population of Wales is very low (people per sq km) hence the number of cases per 100,000 is high due to the number of cases in the south and (lesser extent apart from meat factory at Llangefni in Anglesey) in the north. People from England have indeed been turned back to prevent the risk of infections arriving from England to the many parts of Wales where the infection level is extremely low (e.g large areas of Powys).


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> FFS Daily Wail
> 
> View attachment 443145


My friend in Australia says that the state of Victoria has upped its restrictions due to a spike of 20 cases. The premiers of the neighbouring state where he lives are _banning_ travel again to Victoria. And Boris says we can go on holiday. Nothing is worth the risk. My parter actually studies disease evolution and data for his job. Stats tell us that the mean average of cases is 1205. On 23rd March it was 729 cases a day.


----------



## havoc

Pawscrossed said:


> Nothing is worth the risk


To you. You have presumably calculated your own risk of serious illness or death and decided no form of normal life is worth the risk - to you. It's different for every individual and stats aren't individual risk/reward calculations. Just as those at high risk are perfectly entitled (and sensible) to adjust their own lifestyles to take account of their own situation so are those at very low risk.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Me too . . . I kept on trying to work out what they were celebrating.


On the 4th probably all this... Dominic Who?


----------



## lullabydream

Pawscrossed said:


> . Stats tell us that the mean average of cases is 1205. On 23rd March it was 729 cases a day.


If that was fact, as staticians who have been using larger estimations in the background and still are even with more testing. That would seriously effect the R number, which would affect the government's 5 tests which the refer to, and we wouldn't be where we are..

You have to remember in the early days, hardly any testing.. As always in a pandemic its the death rates that show the real figures of how the country is getting to grips with this virus sadly. This has come down. Cases, admittance to hospital and death rates lowering which are what the scientists have been looking for to really say the curve is flattening. Each should have its own knock on effect, unless like initially here cases were not accounted for everywhere it was only hospital cases.


----------



## rona

Over 200,000 tests yesterday and only 653 positive .  First time below 1000 isn't it?

154 deaths still though


----------



## Sandysmum

Well I'm not in a hurry to celebrate the end of lockdown, it's going to far too fast, for me and everyone else I've spoken to . On last nights briefing the two scientists seemed very uncomfortable when answering questions, as if they really wanted to say something else but couldn't, for what ever reason. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical about this, but I think it's all down the the Dominic Cummings effect. That's when the 'if he can do it, I can do it ' brigade started really going against the sensible advice we'd been given. 

I know there are lots of people, like me, who are really worried about a second wave, and are still going to be very careful about what the next steps will be right for them. So very little will be changing in my life for a while longer, not till I feel it's safe.


----------



## shadowmare

Calvine said:


> My friend is in Glasgow, and things are still very tightly controlled there too, apparently.


I wouldn't call it very tightly. Parks are more or less full of people enjoying the weather, the big ASDA near me doesn't really have a queue to get in anymore (though the barriers are still there, so maybe it depends on how busy it gets, but it's more or less just as busy as always), more small cafes are now doing takeaway coffees etc. Though apparently there's a £100 fine for not wearing a mask on public transport, but as I haven't been on a train since march I don't know how well regulated the rule is...


----------



## havoc

jetsmum said:


> So very little will be changing in my life for a while longer, not till I feel it's safe.


I completely respect your individual decision but I am interested - when will that be? There may never be a vaccine which is what I think most people regard as safety even though most vaccines are not 100% effective. What if the virus is just 'around' forever?


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Over 200,000 tests yesterday and only 653 positive .  First time below 1000 isn't it?
> 
> 154 deaths still though


I think so, although if we had availability of tests that were good earlier, we would have seen similiar numbers because we will see the same numbers on the way up, as on the way down.

What's really annoyed me today, and I haven't yet read the article but my region hasn't been hit by the virus badly at all. So a local headline has stated that researchers say we need not have gone into lockdown at all. There have still been incidents dealt by the police of lockdown being broke for pathetic reasons.. I think that sort of headline is giving the red light too many now. I live on the border of two other counties, so many travel there to shop and work and I live in a huge county too. I think we are just sitting ducks to be honest for a second wave. I don't think hindsight helps this early in a pandemic, and it's still early


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> I think we are just sitting ducks to be honest for a second wave. I don't think hindsight helps this early in a pandemic, and it's still early


It is still early and if numbers start to go up again it isn't a second wave - it's still very much the first.


----------



## Sandysmum

havoc said:


> I completely respect your individual decision but I am interested - when will that be? There may never be a vaccine which is what I think most people regard as safety even though most vaccines are not 100% effective. What if the virus is just 'around' forever?


I think it'll be a case of following what's happening, waiting a while to see how things work out and then re evaluating. I fit into a few at risk groups, so that's why I'm being extra careful. I've had a year from hell with health problems, so I'm taking no chances.


----------



## MollySmith

Hmmmmm!


----------



## MollySmith

jetsmum said:


> I think it'll be a case of following what's happening, waiting a while to see how things work out and then re evaluating. I fit into a few at risk groups, so that's why I'm being extra careful. I've had a year from hell with health problems, so I'm taking no chances.


Absolutely the same. We've just moved our holiday booked for October to 2021.

I'm a level below shielding and husband is over 70 and okay, it's not ideal, but we're managing fine so far. I felt a lot happier in March than I do now as the risk seems closer to our door perhaps because we are in a city albeit a small, quiet part of it, but life is changed and it maybe for a long time. It's learning to settle with that and adapt. My biggest struggle is exercise so I'm going to have to start running or cycling again soon.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I felt a lot happier in March than I do now as the risk seems closer to our door perhaps because we are in a city albeit a small, quiet part of it,


Do you mean pre lockdown in March or you felt safest in the first week of lockdown? The media have really fuelled fear, in no small part by trotting out expert after expert each with their own speciality and set of stats. They're all correct in their own way but the figures are sometimes framed for greatest dramatic effect.

For example, the headline for reducing from 2m to 1m will read that the risk 'doubles'. It's actually around 1.6% and 2.6% at the two distances so very small - and meaningless to an individual. How can that percentage risk apply equally to to two individuals living very different lives? It can't and it doesn't. What churning out pointless stats does do is fuel anxiety.


----------



## Calvine

shadowmare said:


> I wouldn't call it very tightly. Parks are more or less full of people enjoying the weather, the big ASDA near me doesn't really have a queue to get in anymore (though the barriers are still there, so maybe it depends on how busy it gets, but it's more or less just as busy as always), more small cafes are now doing takeaway coffees etc. Though apparently there's a £100 fine for not wearing a mask on public transport, but as I haven't been on a train since march I don't know how well regulated the rule is...


Strange. Had a text from my friend (Glasgow) yesterday to say that: a) everything still closed; b) not allowed to drive further than five miles; c). meeting people outside is restricted to one other person and d) 2m distancing still enforced. 
The £100 fine here (London) for not wearing a mask on public transport is a joke: the bus drivers are not wearing them - most passengers are, but if they aren't it makes naff all difference, they are allowed on and I see no evidence of anyone checking them or suggesting there will be a penalty of any sort.


----------



## havoc

Calvine said:


> Strange. Had a text from my friend (Glasgow) yesterday to say that: a) everything still closed; b) not allowed to drive further than five miles; c). meeting people outside is restricted to one other person and d) 2m distancing still enforced.


The two very differing accounts of life in a particular city are interesting don't you think - a matter of perception. One is what someone is seeing with their own eyes while the other is a list of the rules. They aren't necessarily contradictory, what shadowmare described could all be taking place within the guidelines.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> The £100 fine here (London) for not wearing a mask on public transport is a joke: the bus drivers are not wearing them - most passengers are, but if they aren't it makes naff all difference, they are allowed on and I see no evidence of anyone checking them or suggesting there will be a penalty of any sort.


Apparently the bus drivers are fine...their plastic box makes them safe...oh and viral loads are exempt for buses.

I know that it is hot at the moment but not wearing a mask in places that we are supposed to be wearing masks speaks volumes about the individual IMHO


----------



## havoc

StormyThai said:


> I know that it is hot at the moment but not wearing a mask in places that we are supposed to be wearing masks speaks volumes about the individual IMHO


You mean it speaks to their possible valid reason for exemption?


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> Apparently the bus drivers are fine...their plastic box makes them safe.


I agree, their plastic window should protect them. But before passengers were told they ''must wear a mask at all times on public transport'', all the drivers seemed to be wearing them, despite which several died and subsequently the front seats of the buses (ie directly behind the driver) were cordoned off, plus passengers had to enter and leave the bus via the exit door (meaning free travel), presumably to protect the driver. I have to say, I could not bear to wear a mask all day long; as you say, even worse in this hot weather.


----------



## LittleEms

Just popping in on the mask thing. It is hell to wear them all day! I work in a dentist and oh my goodness with the masks and PPE, some of our nurses have come over faint occasionally because we're not allowed fans.
Drivers u would guess are a bit safer thanks to the windows so I guess it's up to them? But as a passenger I'd 100% always wear a mask.


----------



## havoc

I wouldn’t wear one anywhere it isn’t compulsory.


----------



## LittleEms

havoc said:


> I wouldn't wear one anywhere it isn't compulsory.


I do take one everywhere with me, but I am somewhat immunocompromised and don't totally trust the general public to do what's needed to keep others safe!


----------



## MilleD

LittleEms said:


> I do take one everywhere with me, but I am somewhat immunocompromised and don't totally trust the general public to do what's needed to keep others safe!


The masks are more about protecting people from you than the other way around.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I wouldn't wear one anywhere it isn't compulsory.





havoc said:


> You mean it speaks to their possible valid reason for exemption?


I have one of these for Matt and I, not that we'll be going out or using public transport any time soon, but very useful for Matt re hospital visits


----------



## LittleEms

MilleD said:


> The masks are more about protecting people from you than the other way around.


Oh I am aware of that, but it does offer a little more protection than if I wasn't wearing it. I've also found people tend to pass wider if I have it on so that's mostly why I wear it!


----------



## StormyThai

havoc said:


> You mean it speaks to their possible valid reason for exemption?


No, I mean what I said.


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> The masks are more about protecting people from you than the other way around.


Exactly and i've been to a supermarket/shop three or four times. Once i've gone a good ten days without any contact with anyone I'm no danger to anyone else.


----------



## Boxer123

I haven’t been very far but did put it on in the pharmacy when I went. For some reason I keep shouting when I wear one. I had to apologise to the pharmacist.


----------



## Calvine

LittleEms said:


> But as a passenger I'd 100% always wear a mask.


There is (supposedly) a £100 fine if you don't, but of course, no-one policing it.


----------



## Pawscrossed

havoc said:


> To you. You have presumably calculated your own risk of serious illness or death and decided no form of normal life is worth the risk - to you. It's different for every individual and stats aren't individual risk/reward calculations. Just as those at high risk are perfectly entitled (and sensible) to adjust their own lifestyles to take account of their own situation so are those at very low risk.


Have I missed something in the terms of posting? I would have thought that it was obvious as it's my post, my opinion and a risk assessment is entirely based on ones own circumstances.

I do wish the data was more readily available, many would be making more educated risk assessment.


----------



## MilleD

Just received my shielding update letter. It's very long and in depth. 4 pages in fact!


----------



## lullabydream

Pawscrossed said:


> I do wish the data was more readily available, many would be making more educated risk assessment.


National statistics has plenty, to use and look at if you want to. As you say to make your own educated risk assesment.

The daily briefings have been honest that statistics gathered on Covid-19 aren't factually true possibly down to mild symptoms that people shrug off to not covid and those who are asymptomatic who will never know. They have said in briefings that the true number is most likely this..

Statistics are all well and good. If you can read them, understand them and use them in context and comparison with others.. You yourself offered the mean average of one variable which meant very little on it own.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Just received my shielding update letter. It's very long and in depth. 4 pages in fact!


So what do you have to do?


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Just received my shielding update letter. It's very long and in depth. 4 pages in fact!


Yes my friend did too.

The problem with it is, a lot of people who are shielding are either on drugs or at a time in their lives where they can't concentrate or remember 4 pages of text. My friend has put it in the bin because he couldn't possibly read it and pick out the relevant bits. His brain is affected by a concoction of drugs.

I'll have to fish it out and pick out the important info for him


----------



## havoc

lullabydream said:


> Statistics are all well and good. If you can read them, understand them and use them in context and comparison with others..


The same number can be, and is, used for completely opposite arguments. One lot will be saying 'only' 1 in 20 of the population have (probably, at a best guess, maybe) been infected with this virus which is too low for any possible herd immunity and the infection rate has dropped so low we can't even test vaccines here. Next article will use the same figures to tell you how dangerous it is because 'look how many people have been infected' and how easy it is to catch it.

My favourite is the one about the tracing app. Within a week it had gone from being 'crucial' to 'unimportant'.

It's no wonder people are confused and frightened.


----------



## O2.0

Thought I would share on here, we're in a state that is having a surge, and there was a mobile testing site at my workplace yesterday, so several of us went and got tested. None of us have symptoms nor have been exposed that we know of, just figured it would be responsible to get tested since we are out in public. 
I don't know what the buzz on the street is there, but here everyone says how bad it is to get tested, that it's so painful, how they stick the swab up to your brain etc., etc. Well, it wasn't bad at all. Not even uncomfortable. It's just a swab up your nose, not far, both nostrils, done. 
We'll find out in two days what the results are. 

There have been several older teens/young adults who have tested positive with no or very mild symptoms. In one household a young man got tested as part of applying for a job. He came back positive. Zero symptoms. He is home from college and living with his parents and brother. The three other household members got tested, all negative. His mom got tested again just to be sure, still negative. His sister and BIL who had spent the weekend there sharing food etc, also got tested, also negative. 

I think the more we find out about how this virus spreads the better. It seems some people are more likely to spread it than others, would be good if we could figure out more about how it spreads because obviously in some cases it's not as contagious as we thought and in other cases it's more contagious than we thought.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> So what do you have to do?


From 1st June people shielding were allowed to go outdoors. Still avoiding people though.

6th July, meet people in groups up to six. Maintain social distancing. No need to social distance own house if were doing so. If single can create a support bubble with one other household.

1st August. Shielding to be paused. Can go to work if place is covid safe. Can go shops/churches but maintain strict social distancing. Children can go to school.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Yes my friend did too.
> 
> The problem with it is, a lot of people who are shielding are either on drugs or at a time in their lives where they can't concentrate or remember 4 pages of text. My friend has put it in the bin because he couldn't possibly read it and pick out the relevant bits. His brain is affected by a concoction of drugs.
> 
> I'll have to fish it out and pick out the important info for him


I've paraphrased above. But I would imagine he would probably still prefer to stay as safe as possible.


----------



## MollySmith

Yikes! Bournemouth yesterday

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18540767.police-security-staff-kept-busy-bournemouth-beach/


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> From 1st June people shielding were allowed to go outdoors. *Still avoiding people though.*
> 
> 6th July, meet people in groups up to six. Maintain social distancing. No need to social distance own house if were doing so. If single can create a support bubble with one other household.
> 
> 1st August. Shielding to be paused. Can go to work if place is covid safe. Can go shops/churches but maintain strict social distancing. Children can go to school.


That's so hard in busy areas. I've been walking Molly a lot and constantly throwing myself into hedges!

My friend who has vasculitis and often gets pneumonia has already decided not to go out at all. I really fear for her mental heath as Zoom/Skype isn't easy either as she loses her voice after IV treatment.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Yikes! Bournemouth yesterday
> 
> https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18540767.police-security-staff-kept-busy-bournemouth-beach/


Today its been declared a Major Incident. Half wits. 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-bournemouth-beach-major-incident-22251849
A major incident has been declared in Bournemouth after thousands of people packed the beach on the hottest day of the year.

Thousands gathered on the beach as temperatures soared to 33C in the UK, with officials describing the scenes as "appalling".

Police have pleaded with people to stay away with services "stretched to the absolute hilt", and said that extra patrols are being made.

The council has slammed irresponsible people for gridlocking roads, dumping rubbish and parking illegally, as well as some people allegedly getting involved in fights.

Bournemouth Council Leader Vikki Slade said: "We are absolutely appalled at the scenes witnessed on our beaches, particularly at Bournemouth and Sandbanks, in the last 24-48 hours.

"The irresponsible behaviour and actions of so many people is just shocking and our services are stretched to the absolute hilt trying to keep everyone safe. We have had no choice now but to declare a major incident and initiate an emergency response."


----------



## LittleEms

MollySmith said:


> Yikes! Bournemouth yesterday
> 
> https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18540767.police-security-staff-kept-busy-bournemouth-beach/


This is near me. Honestly I despair  Exactly why I am dreading the coming weeks!! Holiday let's are opening again so it's only going to get worse.


----------



## rona

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/full-list-of-the-331-tory-mps-who-voted-against-weekly-testing-of-nhs-and-care-staff/25/06/#

Not good. How, after all they've done for the nation, can these people play with care staff lives?


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/full-list-of-the-331-tory-mps-who-voted-against-weekly-testing-of-nhs-and-care-staff/25/06/#
> 
> Not good. How, after all they've done for the nation, can these people play with care staff lives?


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/full-list-of-the-331-tory-mps-who-voted-against-weekly-testing-of-nhs-and-care-staff/25/06/#
> 
> Not good. How, after all they've done for the nation, can these people play with care staff lives?


Was there discussion on it? Arguments for it? What was the idea behind doing it in the first place? I don't really know what benefit it would - or wouldn't have. That's an awful lot of Tory mps toed the party line if that's what it was. There must have been some reason for such a strong reaction.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> Was there discussion on it? Arguments for it? What was the idea behind doing it in the first place? I don't really know what benefit it would - or wouldn't have. That's an awful lot of Tory mps toed the party line if that's what it was. There must have been some reason for such a strong reaction.


Well yes, they discussed it in parliament and then voted on it


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> Well yes, they discussed it in parliament and then voted on it


So what were the arguments for doing it and which swung the vote against it?
I didn't see it so have no idea why it was thought necessary and why it got voted down.


----------



## rona

They want testing obviously for safety of staff but also patient safety and it would help with staff shortages The royal college of nursing wants more discussion on it
The main against is the sheer number of tests involved in doing this weekly, though I believe they are making private nursing homes do just that.
I don't know all the fine detail, but I think it's political point scoring on both sides, with nursing staff in the middle


----------



## Elles

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co...-mp-votes-weekly-coronavirus-tests-nhs-staff/

So far I've found this lady making a statement as to why she voted it down.


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> They want testing obviously for safety of staff but also patient safety and it would help with staff shortages


I'll go along with the patient safety thing but surely it could make staff shortages worse. Currently anyone with symptoms can get tested and those who test -ve return to work. If everyone was tested often then symptomless staff who test +ve would have to stay home which equals greater patient safety but also greater staff shortages.

If we had developed a culture of mass testing from the start the whole argument wouldn't be necessary - but we didn't.


----------



## Lurcherlad

There’s usually more to it than the headline.


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> The main against is the sheer number of tests involved in doing this weekly, though I believe they are making private nursing homes do just that.


Really? Nursing homes only or care homes across the board. The problem with testing is the turnaround time. Those with symptoms can be told to self isolate until results come through. Unless you do the same for those without symptoms it does seem a bit pointless and that would cause a 100% staff shortage in some places.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I'll go along with the patient safety thing but surely it could make staff shortages worse. Currently anyone with symptoms can get tested and those who test -ve return to work. If everyone was tested often then symptomless staff who test +ve would have to stay home which equals greater patient safety but also greater staff shortages.
> .


the chemo suite nurses are tested weekly ( both tests) at both WSH and Addenbrookes, as are the ct, mri and pet suite staff, at the latter
talking to the chemo nurses today at WSH none have tested positive, and all had negative antibody tests ( so far) and so, have had no staff absentees


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> the chemo suite nurses are tested weekly ( both tests) at both WSH and Addenbrookes, as are the ct, mri and pet suite staff, at the latter
> talking to the chemo nurses today at WSH none have tested positive, and all had negative antibody tests ( so far) and so, have had no staff absentees


I can see the reasoning behind that and if it's happening anyway why the huge indignation at a govt vote which makes no difference. It's probably quite easy to get tested at a hospital but many care home staff have to rely on the postal version so the turnaround time means testing could make little difference.

I would point out I was (and am) a big critic of this country's lack of testing from the start but I think it was more important and would have made a greater difference months ago than now. The usefulness of the antibody test is anyone's guess until they decide if it means immunity - that's another one which changes by day and by chosen expert.


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Really? Nursing homes only or care homes across the board. The problem with testing is the turnaround time. Those with symptoms can be told to self isolate until results come through. Unless you do the same for those without symptoms it does seem a bit pointless and that would cause a 100% staff shortage in some places.


having had the swab down the throat and up the nose test ( which WAS horrible, I dont care what anyone says, gave me a sore throat for days after) I had the results, by text, within 12 hrs
From what Ive read, and been listening to, the antibody test results are available within 15 mins, friends DIL was randomly picked for the antibody test, hence having the knowledge from the horses mouth, so to speak
Now she tested positive for antibodies and the ONLY time she had a long term dry cough, temp, double vision, and felt ill enough to have to spend 48hrs in bed, was late DECEMBER 2019!
Thats, allegedly, long before the first case was recognised in the UK>
she swears that, since then, shes not had a second of illness, not even a flare of her IBS, let alone anything else and she has 2 young children shes been running after and homeschooling

so, to get to the point, 12 hrs and 15 mins isnt really that long to wait for results and a nurse/carer/dr may not even miss a shift


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> I can see the reasoning behind that and if it's happening anyway why the huge indignation at a govt vote which makes no difference. It's probably quite easy to get tested at a hospital but many care home staff have to rely on the postal version so the turnaround time means testing could make little difference.


I had no indignation about any vote, in fact until I came onto the computer, i didnt even know there had been a vote
let alone that it had been defeated
maybe you meant to point that at a different member


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> so, to get to the point, 12 hrs and 15 mins isnt really that long to wait for results and a nurse/carer/dr may not even miss a shift


Agreed but it isn't the timing for the postal version which is probably more of an issue for care home staff.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> maybe you meant to point that at a different member


No - a general point at the topic which caused the press to react.


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> having had the swab down the throat and up the nose test ( which WAS horrible, I dont care what anyone says, gave me a sore throat for days after) I had the results, by text, within 12 hrs
> From what Ive read, and been listening to, the antibody test results are available within 15 mins, friends DIL was randomly picked for the antibody test, hence having the knowledge from the horses mouth, so to speak
> Now she tested positive for antibodies and the ONLY time she had a long term dry cough, temp, double vision, and felt ill enough to have to spend 48hrs in bed, was late DECEMBER 2019!
> Thats, allegedly, long before the first case was recognised in the UK>


I believe, for no good reason whatsoever, that the virus was here earlier than they tell us. Here's the 'but' which I've only come across recently. Apparently exposure to other corona viruses 'may' give some protection, again according to one lot today, not yesterday and maybe not tomorrow. So theoretically she could have had a different virus back in December and been totally symptomless later with Covid-19.

Problem with this virus is there are no horses and a whole herd of zebra


----------



## rona

New information page 
https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/about-data


----------



## lullabydream

So Chris Whitty has spoken.. Social distance or risk of the virus coming back. 
I presume it's in most news articles after he tweeted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53185386

Article does refer to what he said and what Vallance also said at the final daily briefing.. Obviously falling on deaf ears. I guess not just to people but to journalists how they have portrayed what's happening, going to happen etc from the 4th July.

I was actually quite impressed with our towns local paper that after the final daily briefing, for once instead of having a yipee moment for what we can do, did focus on Chris Whitty on what he was saying. However a small town paper news, get washed away with more county news which didn't report the same sadly.


----------



## Pawscrossed

lullabydream said:


> National statistics has plenty, to use and look at if you want to. As you say to make your own educated risk assesment.
> 
> The daily briefings have been honest that statistics gathered on Covid-19 aren't factually true possibly down to mild symptoms that people shrug off to not covid and those who are asymptomatic who will never know. They have said in briefings that the true number is most likely this..
> 
> Statistics are all well and good. If you can read them, understand them and use them in context and comparison with others.. You yourself offered the mean average of one variable which meant very little on it own.


As I said before my partner works in data and statistical analysis. I am familiar.


----------



## lullabydream

Pawscrossed said:


> As I said before my partner works in data and statistical analysis. I am somewhat familiar. I could quote more sources of course.


Am rather mathematical minded too, and like I have said previously the numbers you quoted without putting in context would mean very little, but as the larger picture and in laymen terms as we are over the peak. There are numbers that prove that following the mean value.. You will see the same numbers going up as you will go down...the point here is they are going down.

I also did a fuller explanation about the statistic value you shared.. Part of a larger picture which would be in a fuller report. They also are more estimatiotions which the scientists/statiicians are well aware of too


----------



## lorilu

For the first time, Covid has touched my life in a very real way. Up until now I have been content to stay safe and do what I am told. Today my sister was found in her apartment (by another sister who had gone to check on her due to some recent concerns) with what appeared to be a stroke. Awake but unable to speak or move. There is more, worse news now, but I don't want to talk about it here. That is all I will say about that.

I just wanted to express how utterly horrifying it was to realize, even as I flew around getting ready to hurry up there (1 1/2 hour drive away) to be at the hospital, to be with her, and other family...only to be told No. You can't come, don't come, they won't let you in. And of course I can't go to any of my other sisters' or my brother's house, we're all in the same boat, isolating as much as possible and no one wants to be the one to put another at risk.

So up until now I've had it pretty easy. Now, not so much. Sitting here, unable to go to my sister, to tell her I love her, tell her goodbye most likely, reassure her I will get the box. One family member is allowed to be appointed as visitor and liaison. This is going to be my youngest sister. A heavy burden for her, but I am sure she can handle it. Since I can't, I have asked her to please tell my sister that I am coming up there tomorrow to "get the box". This will give her peace of mind I know.

I am so far away..I had a little hysterical fit, but am calmer now. But that feeling, that knowledge when it sunk in, that I could not go to her...was absolutely devastating.


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> For the first time, Covid has touched my life in a very real way. Up until now I have been content to stay safe and do what I am told. Today my sister was found in her apartment (by another sister who had gone to check on her due to some recent concerns) with what appeared to be a stroke. Awake but unable to speak or move. There is more, worse news now, but I don't want to talk about it here. That is all I will say about that.
> 
> I just wanted to express how utterly horrifying it was to realize, even as I flew around getting ready to hurry up there (1 1/2 hour drive away) to be at the hospital, to be with her, and other family...only to be told No. You can't come, don't come, they won't let you in. And of course I can't go to any of my other sisters' or my brother's house, we're all in the same boat, isolating as much as possible and no one wants to be the one to put another at risk.
> 
> So up until now I've had it pretty easy. Now, not so much. Sitting here, unable to go to my sister, to tell her I love her, tell her goodbye most likely, reassure her I will get the box. One family member is allowed to be appointed as visitor and liaison. This is going to be my youngest sister. A heavy burden for her, but I am sure she can handle it. Since I can't, I have asked her to please tell my sister that I am coming up there tomorrow to "get the box". This will give her peace of mind I know.
> 
> I am so far away..I had a little hysterical fit, but am calmer now. But that feeling, that knowledge when it sunk in, that I could not go to her...was absolutely devastating.


So sorry to be reading this, but have been the friend of someone in a similiar situation.. So I hope you have someone to talk to even if it has been family. I have in the middle of night calls, calls because of an array of feelings at this difficult time.

Hugs to you
xxxx


----------



## Jaf

lorilu said:


> For the first time, Covid has touched my life in a very real way. Up until now I have been content to stay safe and do what I am told. Today my sister was found in her apartment (by another sister who had gone to check on her due to some recent concerns) with what appeared to be a stroke. Awake but unable to speak or move. There is more, worse news now, but I don't want to talk about it here. That is all I will say about that.
> 
> I just wanted to express how utterly horrifying it was to realize, even as I flew around getting ready to hurry up there (1 1/2 hour drive away) to be at the hospital, to be with her, and other family...only to be told No. You can't come, don't come, they won't let you in. And of course I can't go to any of my other sisters' or my brother's house, we're all in the same boat, isolating as much as possible and no one wants to be the one to put another at risk.
> 
> So up until now I've had it pretty easy. Now, not so much. Sitting here, unable to go to my sister, to tell her I love her, tell her goodbye most likely, reassure her I will get the box. One family member is allowed to be appointed as visitor and liaison. This is going to be my youngest sister. A heavy burden for her, but I am sure she can handle it. Since I can't, I have asked her to please tell my sister that I am coming up there tomorrow to "get the box". This will give her peace of mind I know.
> 
> I am so far away..I had a little hysterical fit, but am calmer now. But that feeling, that knowledge when it sunk in, that I could not go to her...was absolutely devastating.


I am so sorry. I went through a similar thing with my sister, though it wasn't such a shock. Take care of yourself. Xx


----------



## shadowmare

Calvine said:


> Strange. Had a text from my friend (Glasgow) yesterday to say that: a) everything still closed; b) not allowed to drive further than five miles; c). meeting people outside is restricted to one other person and d) 2m distancing still enforced.
> The £100 fine here (London) for not wearing a mask on public transport is a joke: the bus drivers are not wearing them - most passengers are, but if they aren't it makes naff all difference, they are allowed on and I see no evidence of anyone checking them or suggesting there will be a penalty of any sort.


Yeah, I live in Glasgow. Today the parks were full of people (mostly still trying to keep safe distance but definitely in groups of 3-6). We're allowed up to 8 people (probably from 2 households but let's be honest - no one will be walking around asking to see your drivers license to confirm family tree and address. As I said - small cafes are opening for coffee and cakes takeaway, some bars today started doing takeaway cocktails in plastic disposable cups. The 24hrs shops are still working shorter hours though so close at 11pm. In one of the main parks today there was a huge disturbance and 8 police vans and cars had to bring in patrols so they did need to clear the park but it was because it was absolutely full of people boozing. I don't think many people are abusing the rules, but many people are out driving outside of town to other parks etc. that are 10-15 miles out. Maybe it's quieter where your friend stays. I live 30mins walk from city centre and just across one of the main parks.


----------



## rona

lorilu said:


> I just wanted to express how utterly horrifying it was to realize, even as I flew around getting ready to hurry up there (1 1/2 hour drive away) to be at the hospital, to be with her, and other family...only to be told No. You can't come, don't come, they won't let you in. And of course I can't go to any of my other sisters' or my brother's house, we're all in the same boat, isolating as much as possible and no one wants to be the one to put another at risk.


How utterly heartbreaking for you. I'm so sorry
This virus is producing lifelong sadness and regret for so many people


----------



## Lurcherlad

@lorilu so sorry to hear your awful news 

Made so much worse by being forced to stay away from your family at this time.

Sending positive vibes and a virtual hug x


----------



## Bisbow

So sorry to read about your problems and hope it is not as bad as you think
Keeping everything crossed for you


----------



## Mum2Heidi

So sorry Lorilu.


----------



## MilleD

Sorry to hear your news @lorilu

Look after yourself xx


----------



## Cully

@lorilu ,I'm so sorry to hear this and what you're having to go through. I truely hope she pulls through.
It just brings it home what a terrible position we are finding ourselves in all too often at the moment. I hope you can find support to get you through this. Be kind to yourself. ((hugs)).


----------



## Siskin

Got sent this one today which made me giggle

CORONA LISA


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Got sent this one today which made me giggle
> 
> CORONA LISA
> 
> View attachment 443318


you wouldnt believe, just how much, that last one looks like me


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> you wouldnt believe, just how much, that last one looks like me


Ah no, don't believe that at all


----------



## kimthecat

Im so sorry about your sister.  @lorilu


----------



## Jonescat

So sorry to read your news @lorilu 
I hope you get the box, and find a way to make sense of it all.


----------



## kittih

I am so sorry to hear your news @lorilu . I can only imagine how upsetting it must be. I hope your cats, family and friends can be there to support you. In hospitals in the UK some nursing staff are using tablets to allow family members who.arent allowed to visit to see each other. I dont know whether this is possible but if so perhaps it may bring you and your sister some comfort.


----------



## LittleEms

So sorry to hear what is happening @lorilu Look after yourself and I hope you can find some way to see her - maybe a video chat?
I sympathise, my Nanna was diagnosed with lung cancer right at the start of lockdown and has deteriorated so fast. She's in the highest category of vulnerable and I haven't been able to see her at all. It's awful knowing that I might never see her again, or at least not until the end.

It makes me so angry to see people clearly without a care going on as though nothing is happening. If we go back into lockdown thanks to them I might not get to say goodbye at all and that's the thing I'm most scared of.

Quick edit to add - apologies for the heavy post, I hadn't written about it before and it sort of came out on the keypad..


----------



## ForestWomble

So sorry @lorilu and @LittleEms

I hope you will both be able to see your loved one again.


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> For the first time, Covid has touched my life in a very real way.


Oh crap Lorilu, I'm so sorry  
I've been trying to be there for a friend going through similar, her mom had a small stroke and had to go to the hospital, of course no one could come in with her. She recovered, was doing well, they lined up a care home for her, got her settled in, and not a week later, she falls and breaks her hip. Back to the hospital, this time taken by the care home. My friend runs out to the hospital as soon as she hears, ends up sitting in the parking lot for 6 hours just trying to find out what's going on. It's so horrible not being able to be there with your loved one. I'm really sorry 



MollySmith said:


> Yikes! Bournemouth yesterday
> 
> https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18540767.police-security-staff-kept-busy-bournemouth-beach/


Made the US news here. What is the matter with people. Those photos don't even look like fun to me, who wants to go to the beach where you're that crowded?! 
Granted US beaches have been doing similar (I don't think we get that crowded though), and we're now seeing a spike in cases because of it.

In other news, I got tested Wednesday, still have not heard anything, now I find out it might take up to 5 days to find out results. 
I'm not normally an anxious person, but I've found myself a total ball of anxiety awaiting results. I have zero symptoms, run every day, haven't been exposed (that I know of), but figured I would get tested just to help out with data. The test was free, it was at my building, really no reason not to.
Now I can't stop worrying that I might find out I am positive, and how would I go about warning people I've been in contact with, or if our 'contact' counts as 'contact.' It's a ridiculous mind game I'm playing and I had none of this anxiety before I decided to get tested. Now I'm totally paranoid.


----------



## MollySmith

lorilu said:


> For the first time, Covid has touched my life in a very real way. Up until now I have been content to stay safe and do what I am told. Today my sister was found in her apartment (by another sister who had gone to check on her due to some recent concerns) with what appeared to be a stroke. Awake but unable to speak or move. There is more, worse news now, but I don't want to talk about it here. That is all I will say about that.
> 
> I just wanted to express how utterly horrifying it was to realize, even as I flew around getting ready to hurry up there (1 1/2 hour drive away) to be at the hospital, to be with her, and other family...only to be told No. You can't come, don't come, they won't let you in. And of course I can't go to any of my other sisters' or my brother's house, we're all in the same boat, isolating as much as possible and no one wants to be the one to put another at risk.
> 
> So up until now I've had it pretty easy. Now, not so much. Sitting here, unable to go to my sister, to tell her I love her, tell her goodbye most likely, reassure her I will get the box. One family member is allowed to be appointed as visitor and liaison. This is going to be my youngest sister. A heavy burden for her, but I am sure she can handle it. Since I can't, I have asked her to please tell my sister that I am coming up there tomorrow to "get the box". This will give her peace of mind I know.
> 
> I am so far away..I had a little hysterical fit, but am calmer now. But that feeling, that knowledge when it sunk in, that I could not go to her...was absolutely devastating.


I am so sorry.

We've a relative - he has recovered and the care he received was amazing. Once he felt able to, the nurses helped him to Skype which helped. I hope that brings some comfort to you.


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> Oh crap Lorilu, I'm so sorry
> I've been trying to be there for a friend going through similar, her mom had a small stroke and had to go to the hospital, of course no one could come in with her. She recovered, was doing well, they lined up a care home for her, got her settled in, and not a week later, she falls and breaks her hip. Back to the hospital, this time taken by the care home. My friend runs out to the hospital as soon as she hears, ends up sitting in the parking lot for 6 hours just trying to find out what's going on. It's so horrible not being able to be there with your loved one. I'm really sorry
> 
> Made the US news here. What is the matter with people. Those photos don't even look like fun to me, who wants to go to the beach where you're that crowded?!
> Granted US beaches have been doing similar (I don't think we get that crowded though), and we're now seeing a spike in cases because of it.
> 
> In other news, I got tested Wednesday, still have not heard anything, now I find out it might take up to 5 days to find out results.
> I'm not normally an anxious person, but I've found myself a total ball of anxiety awaiting results. I have zero symptoms, run every day, haven't been exposed (that I know of), but figured I would get tested just to help out with data. The test was free, it was at my building, really no reason not to.
> Now I can't stop worrying that I might find out I am positive, and how would I go about warning people I've been in contact with, or if our 'contact' counts as 'contact.' It's a ridiculous mind game I'm playing and I had none of this anxiety before I decided to get tested. Now I'm totally paranoid.


I have the option to be tested and when you posted about yours, I wondered how you might be feeling emotively about it as you wait. I'm sorry, it's really hard it isn't it? I guess keep it mind it's useful data.

We've progressed to fights on beaches in Wales today. It's going ever so well... I'm sure Dominic Cummings has it all under control....sigh


----------



## MollySmith

LittleEms said:


> So sorry to hear what is happening @lorilu Look after yourself and I hope you can find some way to see her - maybe a video chat?
> I sympathise, my Nanna was diagnosed with lung cancer right at the start of lockdown and has deteriorated so fast. She's in the highest category of vulnerable and I haven't been able to see her at all. It's awful knowing that I might never see her again, or at least not until the end.
> 
> It makes me so angry to see people clearly without a care going on as though nothing is happening. If we go back into lockdown thanks to them I might not get to say goodbye at all and that's the thing I'm most scared of.
> 
> Quick edit to add - apologies for the heavy post, I hadn't written about it before and it sort of came out on the keypad..


Hugs to you too. No apologies needed.


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> I guess keep it mind it's useful data.


That's what I keep telling myself. 
I'm good peasant stock, type O blood, one of those obnoxious people who never gets sick so if I can do anything to help data-wise I'm happy to. 
But it's sure as hell going to inconvenience some people if I test positive....


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> That's what I keep telling myself.
> I'm good peasant stock, type O blood, one of those obnoxious people who never gets sick so if I can do anything to help data-wise I'm happy to.
> But it's sure as hell going to inconvenience some people if I test positive....


That's my worry, if I'm positive then though I've been really sensible on the rare times I've been out, it's the impact of this. I don't feel like I've had it. I know what pneumonia is but hay fever is awful here at the moment so I'm coughing and trying not be be paranoid! I'm a B negative so they might never let me out!


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> That's my worry, if I'm positive then though I've been really sensible on the rare times I've been out, it's the impact of this. I don't feel like I've had it. I know what pneumonia is but hay fever is awful here at the moment so I'm coughing and trying not be be paranoid! I'm a B negative so they might never let me out!


We're seeing more and more cases of people with zero symptoms, who never develop symptoms testing positive. It's the young'uns, 30's and under. Not a category I'm in mind!


----------



## shadowmare

Scotland reported their first weekday since pre lockdown without any registered COVID related deaths. 
I attended my training session at work today. It will be incredibly hard... a unit in England is opening up on 4th July so we’ll be waiting to see how the new procedures will work there. Lots of questions still unanswered. However, the job will be harder and the pay will be lower (massive cut on tips due to no bar seats available from now on). But at least our restaurant is one of surviving ones and now that at least two large ones have shit down, the demand will increase so hopefully the business will be affected only minimally.


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> We're seeing more and more cases of people with zero symptoms, who never develop symptoms testing positive. It's the young'uns, 30's and under.


Someone I know who works in a hospital tested positive, all she had was loss of smell and taste. This was while the government refused to add it to the list of symptoms so had she not got tested could have happily been wondering around here, there and everywhere.


----------



## O2.0

Arny said:


> Someone I know who works in a hospital tested positive, all she had was loss of smell and taste. This was while the government refused to add it to the list of symptoms so had she not got tested could have happily been wondering around here, there and everywhere.


Thankfully now you can get tested even if you have no symptoms, for a long time they weren't letting anyone except those who were really sick get tested. My friend tested positive about 2 months ago, and she went back to the doctor 3 times before they would test her. She was sick with a fever and they sent her home with no instructions to self-isolate twice!!


----------



## SbanR

@lorilu @LittleEms very sorry to read your news.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @lorilu I'm so sorry to read your news. Sending strength to get through the coming days and weeks.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I've just got to rant. I'm sorry. 

WHY do I now have to wear a face mask all day at work, yet from a week today we can go to the pub without a face covering? It's madness. Apparently it's a response to complaints from members of the public that NHS workers are all together. Hmmm. These would be the same people who are milling about browsing in fricking Primark? Yeah, probably...

WHY do the women I look after think it's okay to swear at me when I ask them to put their mask on properly? All attendees at the clinic need to wear a covering or are given a surgical mask when they arrive. Yesterday I was manic all day and when woman shouted at me, "why do I have to f******* wear a mask it's f****** ridiculous" my response was most unprofessional and I told her that she doesn't even need to wear it for an hour, I have to wear it for eight. Ugh. Luckily I managed to reign in what I really wanted to say...

I'm fed up with it and am at the end of my tether. Going to get a telling off on Tuesday as well from my boss as I just physically didn't have time to do yet another new thing we have to do yesterday. Double ugh.


----------



## Siskin

The hospital I was staying in allowed a few patient visitors in over this last week. Each ward had a different time that the visitors were allowed to come in. The visitor was allowed to stay with an hour and had to be the person that had been looking after the patient prior to being hospitalised and also the one who would be looking after the patient when they came home. The visitor had to socially distance themselves from the patient as well as anyone else in the ward. They should also had to have been isolating themselves before visiting. On entry the visitor had temperature taken, issued with a mask and wash there hands with sanitiser before entry and then follow a prescribed route to the wards.
The husband of the lady in the next bed visited on the first day. Other then that no one else came to our 4 bed ward.
I still don't know how I feel about it. There is a lot of reliance that the visitor has been totally truthful about isolating themselves

As to masks. Having only worn them for short periods I take my hat off to someone who is wearing them for long shifts. I had to wear a mask whilst going home on Wednesday in hospital transport. It was so hot which didn't help much, but just those 2 hours or so was pretty awful, such a relief to take it off when I got home.

@lorilu i was so sorry to read about your sister, do hope she gets well soon.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> I've just got to rant. I'm sorry.
> 
> WHY do I now have to wear a face mask all day at work, yet from a week today we can go to the pub without a face covering? It's madness. Apparently it's a response to complaints from members of the public that NHS workers are all together. Hmmm. These would be the same people who are milling about browsing in fricking Primark? Yeah, probably...
> 
> WHY do the women I look after think it's okay to swear at me when I ask them to put their mask on properly? All attendees at the clinic need to wear a covering or are given a surgical mask when they arrive. Yesterday I was manic all day and when woman shouted at me, "why do I have to f******* wear a mask it's f****** ridiculous" my response was most unprofessional and I told her that she doesn't even need to wear it for an hour, I have to wear it for eight. Ugh. Luckily I managed to reign in what I really wanted to say...
> 
> I'm fed up with it and am at the end of my tether. Going to get a telling off on Tuesday as well from my boss as I just physically didn't have time to do yet another new thing we have to do yesterday. Double ugh.


I really feel for you, it's such a thankless task.
Have a hug!xx

@lorilu , so sorry to hear of your sister, love and prayers for you both.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I've just got to rant. I'm sorry.
> 
> WHY do I now have to wear a face mask all day at work, yet from a week today we can go to the pub without a face covering? It's madness. Apparently it's a response to complaints from members of the public that NHS workers are all together. Hmmm. These would be the same people who are milling about browsing in fricking Primark? Yeah, probably...
> 
> WHY do the women I look after think it's okay to swear at me when I ask them to put their mask on properly? All attendees at the clinic need to wear a covering or are given a surgical mask when they arrive. Yesterday I was manic all day and when woman shouted at me, "why do I have to f******* wear a mask it's f****** ridiculous" my response was most unprofessional and I told her that she doesn't even need to wear it for an hour, I have to wear it for eight. Ugh. Luckily I managed to reign in what I really wanted to say...
> 
> I'm fed up with it and am at the end of my tether. Going to get a telling off on Tuesday as well from my boss as I just physically didn't have time to do yet another new thing we have to do yesterday. Double ugh.


Are these expectant mothers  I unfortunately don't have children but if I did I would have thought your midwife would be your greatest asset. I find wearing masks super uncomfortable you deserve a medal for wearing one all day.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thank goodness for my lovely crochet ponytail mask gadget, thank you so much @SusieRainbow it is really helping xx


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Boxer123 said:


> Are these expectant mothers  I unfortunately don't have children but if I did I would have thought your midwife would be your greatest asset. I find wearing masks super uncomfortable you deserve a medal for wearing one all day.


Sadly yes. I always feel sad when women think it's acceptable to behave in such a way. It worries me for their poor children


----------



## lorilu

Thank you everyone who responded to my cry of devastation. I am now happy (relatively speaking) to tell you that I CAN visit. I was given incorrect information. The hospital allows only one person a day, total, has to be only that one person, but it can be a different person each day. I have usurped my other siblings positions (there are 4 of us, plus my sister in the hospital) and insisted I be allowed to come every other night. It is 3 hours of driving, or I'd do it every day. It probably won't be for very long, and my sister needs me there. The others aren't close to her at all, and I'm not sure my brother wants to go even once, though I think he should. I mean, I know they love her in a "I love her because she's my sister" sort of way, but they don't know her. Anyway, wanted to say thank you and to say this. xx


----------



## Siskin

Really good news @lorilu, you sound a whole lot happier


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Really good news @lorilu, you sound a whole lot happier


I am happy I can be there for her during her last days or weeks. Now I need my employer to be agreeable to allow me to use my 'family sick leave' to be point of contact and to work reduced hours on the days I drive up, and later start (working from home instead) on the days after the drive, because the drive back and forth, not to mention what's in between, is shattering.

With flex time I can in theory make up lost time working at home, but in reality I have health issues of my own and will not be able to keep up such a pace. I can't work 5 hours, drive 100 miles, sit with dying sister for 2 hours (once I get in past the health screening station, which is a long line you stand in for 20-30 minutes to get your temp taken), drive 100 miles back and then work 3 more hours, even from home. I know my limits and I am not stoic or martyr like.

In addition I want to be able to take the hospital (nurse, doc, social worker) phone calls that come in without losing work time, if they will let me use my family sick leave. If they won't, I will simply use vacation time, but I really need that for when I move at the end of July, and for dealing with house issues like roofers and electrician and stuff.

How covid comes into this is the flex time I have now. We didn't have that before, but we do now and will have it for at least another week. With my special circumstances I am sure I will be allowed to continue with it a bit longer. I just hope they keep the building closed to the public, because that relieves me of in person duties. Currently the public can come in to see whatever official person they need by appointment only, and department heads are taking these appointments, not the little people like me. As it should be.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

So pleased to read you can visit your sister Lorilu, I know so many people with loved ones in hospital and care homes they have been unable to visit, its heart breaking. Fingercrossed your employer allows you to take family sick leave. Best wishes to you and your family


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> Thank you everyone who responded to my cry of devastation. I am now happy (relatively speaking) to tell you that I CAN visit. I was given incorrect information. The hospital allows only one person a day, total, has to be only that one person, but it can be a different person each day. I have usurped my other siblings positions (there are 4 of us, plus my sister in the hospital) and insisted I be allowed to come every other night. It is 3 hours of driving, or I'd do it every day. It probably won't be for very long, and my sister needs me there. The others aren't close to her at all, and I'm not sure my brother wants to go even once, though I think he should. I mean, I know they love her in a "I love her because she's my sister" sort of way, but they don't know her. Anyway, wanted to say thank you and to say this. xx


That's brilliant news so happy for You and your Sister. It must be such a relief to know you can visit her.


----------



## Siskin

Just had a long email from the manager of our static site over the opening on the 4th July. Very complex arrangements in place to maintain social,distancing, who is allowed to,come, children only playing beside their van and nowhere else. What’s open (nothing) and being mindful of the local community. 
At the moment we will not be going, I’m not able to travel in the car yet as I can’t bend me knee enough to get in let alone be comfortable on a 4-5 hour journey, plus I need a few aids to manage everything (raised loo seats etc) which won’t work in the static. All seems like too much faff at the moment. Also it will be very busy initially I should imagine.


----------



## kimthecat

One of my friends and her husband are 80 and self isolating and they feel that time is ticking and they feel upset that they cannot live their life to the full as they normally would do.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> One of my friends and her husband are 80 and self isolating and they feel that time is ticking and they feel upset that they cannot live their life to the full as they normally would do.


Will they be able to take advantage of the further easing up of lockdown when it happens. Have they family or friends to include them in socialising?


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> One of my friends and her husband are 80 and self isolating and they feel that time is ticking and they feel upset that they cannot live their life to the full as they normally would do.


What is it they want to do?


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Will they be able to take advantage of the further easing up of lockdown when it happens. Have they family or friends to include them in socialising?


They have children and grandchildren , their grand daughter gets their shopping and their son is next door . They miss going out to the shops and garden centre etc . seeing friends They don't think its worth the risk .


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> They have children and grandchildren , their grand daughter gets their shopping and their son is next door . They miss going out to the shops and garden centre etc . seeing friends They don't think its worth the risk .


So many people are afraid to go out and it's a shame because they are missing out on what's important to them. Maybe they'll get more confidence as time goes on if they see other elderly people getting on with their lives. Hopefully it wont be too long before we have a vaccine or a really efficient treatment.


----------



## mrs phas

Well Leicester has become the first mole to be whacked
I'm pretty sure it won't be the last


----------



## mrs phas

And if one pandemic wasn't enough

BBC News - Flu virus with 'pandemic potential' found in China
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53218704


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> And if one pandemic wasn't enough
> 
> BBC News - Flu virus with 'pandemic potential' found in China
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53218704


Just put my Laptop on and see this on my Home Page, very worrying!


----------



## Cully

Very worrying considering how closely related we are to pigs genetically.
Just when we were beginning to think it's safe to go back in the water.


----------



## MilleD

I'm not sure I'd worry about this unless it comes to something. Remember the panic instigated about swine flu in the past which just fizzled out?

I'd concentrate on worrying about absolutes at the moment, we have enough of those to be going on with.


----------



## Cully

Yea, I recently heard something similar from two world leaders who got it so so wrong. Excuse me for having little confidence in conjecture.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Yea, I recently heard something similar from two world leaders who got it so so wrong. Excuse me for having little confidence in conjecture.


Ok.


----------



## Happy Paws2

At the moment, If I can worry about it I will, my mind just goes into overdrive over the silliest things and I have know idea why, I'm not normally this, silly I know.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> At the moment, If I can worry about it I will, my mind just goes into overdrive over the silliest things and I have know idea why, I'm not normally this, silly I know.


Not silly at all.It's a very strange world we're living in at the moment and there are so many unknowns. It's not silly to be worried about things we don't understand and you're definitely not alone in the way you are reacting.
When we are worried we tend to overthink and try and make sense of what is the jumble in our heads. Try and sort out which worries are really bothering you and which are just niggles which can be sorted later. Put your real worries in order of importance (write them down) and look at each one separately. Hopefully you'll find each one, on it's own is not so scary.


----------



## laugher

mrs phas said:


> And if one pandemic wasn't enough
> 
> BBC News - Flu virus with 'pandemic potential' found in China
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53218704


Yikes! This really is scary. People are arguing that the world should turn vegetarian to prevent similar outbreaks in the future. But that doesn't seem feasible. Even if we assume that we drastically cut down on the amount of food we as a species tend to waste, it is still untenable to manufacture essentials of the vegetarian diet to feed every single person. Not to mention the adverse health impacts many will face owing to a sudden, abrupt shift to vegetarianism.

As an aside, I was really worried about how things might go in Congo, what with the coronavirus and the sustained Ebola outbreak. But it looks like the Ebola outbreak has finally been contained there.


----------



## mrs phas

MilleD said:


> I'm not sure I'd worry about this unless it comes to something. Remember the panic instigated about swine flu in the past which just fizzled out?
> 
> I'd concentrate on worrying about absolutes at the moment, we have enough of those to be going on with.


I wouldn't normally comment on this
But
Go back and read the first few pages of this thread
Being blase is what has caused a half a million deaths worldwide
As a world and, as individuals, we cannot afford to be blase again
Ever!


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> I wouldn't normally comment on this
> But
> Go back and read the first few pages of this thread
> Being blase is what has caused a half a million deaths worldwide
> As a world and, as individuals, we cannot afford to be blase again
> Ever!


No. Coronavirus/Covid-19 was already killing people. This is something which is not.

Totally different situation.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> I'm not sure I'd worry about this unless it comes to something. Remember the panic instigated about swine flu in the past which just fizzled out?
> 
> I'd concentrate on worrying about absolutes at the moment, we have enough of those to be going on with.


Absolutely... 
From reading the article though. Considering the current climate, it's in China they have released the information. With more knowledge on the type of virus; they have knowledge even if it's not covered by a virus. I really can't see China doing anything other than locking down if they think this could be come pandemic too. When I say locking down, closing borders, tracking and tracing to the hill which they are doing so anyway or were last time I checked. Hopefully it will be contained as everything is in place to do so.


----------



## O2.0

The 'new' swine flu has been named the G4 virus, genetically descended from the H1N1 virus which humans have already experienced. Nothing like covid 19 which humans had no previous exposure to or experience with. 
And, we already have an H1N1 vaccine and scientists are used to tweaking vaccines to match the next strain of an already known virus.


----------



## O2.0

laugher said:


> People are arguing that the world should turn vegetarian to prevent similar outbreaks in the future.


I don't know about the world going vegetarian, but I think eliminating factory farming and the atrocious conditions therein would go a long way towards solving a lot of human health and environmental issues.


----------



## Cully

Just thinking about the 'flu virus and vaccines. I wonder what's going to happen this year about us getting our usual jabs. At my doctors surgery 'flu jab appointments are for Saturdays only and it's like a cattle market in there, but less organised. Standing room only and we all wait in line with our sleeves rolled up en masse. I'm still waiting for my pneumococcal jab from last winter as they ran out of vaccine.


----------



## rona

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53233066

The number of deaths registered in the UK over one week has fallen below the five-year average for the first time since mid-March.


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> Just thinking about the 'flu virus and vaccines. I wonder what's going to happen this year about us getting our usual jabs. At my doctors surgery 'flu jab appointments are for Saturdays only and it's like a cattle market in there, but less organised. Standing room only and we all wait in line with our sleeves rolled up en masse. I'm still waiting for my pneumococcal jab from last winter as they ran out of vaccine.


I've been thinking about this too. 
I never get a flu vaccine. One, I'm too lazy. Two, in my head I think I'm leaving my spot in line and available vaccine to someone who needs it more than I do. 
Now even more so it seems leaving my spot in line to someone who needs it more is a good idea. I'll do the same when the covid 19 vaccine comes out, let people who really need it get vaccinated first.


----------



## Boxer123

Like @Happy Paws2 i find this and everything else very worrying at the moment. We are not just playing whack a mole with covid but lurching from one crisis to another. Climate change is still a real threat and yet people are still going to be filling planes next month. Absolutely @O2.0 the way animals are farmed is a disgrace. I see no issue with eating meat if it was farmed ethically. I truly worry for the future and for the first time I am glad I have no children. (Sorry feeling blue today)


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Like @Happy Paws2 i find this and everything else very worrying at the moment. We are not just playing whack a mole with covid but lurching from one crisis to another. Climate change is still a real threat and yet people are still going to be filling planes next month. Absolutely @O2.0 the way animals are farmed is a disgrace. I see no issue with eating meat if it was farmed ethically. * I truly worry for the future and for the first time I am glad I have no children.* (Sorry feeling blue today)


My husband and I have been saying that for years, it's one of the reasons we decided not to have any. I wouldn't wish the future on anyone.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> My husband and I have been saying that for years, it's one of the reasons we decided not to have any. I wouldn't wish the future on anyone.


I truly hope we can turn it around I enjoyed watching young Greta speak last week but I fear it will not happen.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> At the moment, If I can worry about it I will, my mind just goes into overdrive over the silliest things and I have know idea why, I'm not normally this, silly I know.


I expect it all this extra stress over the past few months is getting to you. It _is_ hard not to worry in these circumstances.

Been people watching here and its like Social distancing never existed.  Really trying to be extra vigilant and avoiding busy times.


----------



## havoc

Boxer123 said:


> Like @Happy Paws2 i find this and everything else very worrying at the moment. We are not just playing whack a mole with covid but lurching from one crisis to another. Climate change is still a real threat and yet people are still going to be filling planes next month. Absolutely @O2.0 the way animals are farmed is a disgrace. I see no issue with eating meat if it was farmed ethically. I truly worry for the future and for the first time I am glad I have no children. (Sorry feeling blue today)


Don't apologise, we all have good and bad days. Half the problem is how we're bombarded with information, so many things to worry about. The G4 virus wouldn't even have hit our conciousness yet in normal times, we're over sensitised to every little thing.


----------



## catz4m8z

Cully said:


> Just thinking about the 'flu virus and vaccines. I wonder what's going to happen this year about us getting our usual jabs. At my doctors surgery 'flu jab appointments are for Saturdays only and it's like a cattle market in there, but less organised. Standing room only and we all wait in line with our sleeves rolled up en masse. I'm still waiting for my pneumococcal jab from last winter as they ran out of vaccine.


One advantage of working for the NHS....they come round and do your jabs at work! (very insistent too, practically rugby tackle you into it!).

I had my antibody test done today so I should know in a couple of weeks if I have any immunity. I have to say though it was a really awful job! Whenever Ive taken blood Ive usually left a little hole that stops bleeding straight away. This lady left what looks like a slice in my arm (that was still oozing 2 hrs later!) and also a 2in scratch down my arm where she dragged the needle away. Bad occupational health nurse!!! no cookies for you!!:Nurse:Hurting:Hungover


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> my mind just goes into overdrive over the silliest things and I have know idea why,


I think it's likely because we have little else to do . . . until Saturday when we can all go and get legless and behave like raving nutters once the pubs are open-ish.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> I think it's likely because we have little else to do . . . until Saturday when we can all go and get legless and behave like raving nutters once the pubs are open-ish.


As if :Hilarious


----------



## havoc

A further 36 areas are 'at risk' of local lockdown. Can see the pubs opening only to close sharpish.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-bradford-london-boroughs-among-36-risk-areas-090700238.html


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> I had my antibody test done today so I should know in a couple of weeks if I have any immunity


Is it the official line now that having had the virus does give immunity? There are so many differing opinion articles by various well qualified experts it's hard to keep up.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53233066
> 
> The number of deaths registered in the UK over one week has fallen below the five-year average for the first time since mid-March.


We should be seeing a much lower death than normal and relatively few attributable to Covid-19 before we start to imagine it's on the wane. I feel a bit of caution about it though (especially in view of the data protection and Pillar 2 figures today). Many people nearing their end of life, from longterm conditions or similar, who might have died around now will have already lost their lives through the virus. The fact 80+ % of deaths have been from the over eighties and, otherwise, had preconditions is evidence of this. Add in a normal fluctuation that occurs over the five year period, to create that average, and we see last week's figures are not so significant, also factor in fewer deaths in road traffic or work-related accidents because of lockdown. There's still a problem.

Soz, I'm a harbinger of doom ATM. It's sort of good news.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Is it the official line now that having had the virus does give immunity? There are so many differing opinion articles by various well qualified experts it's hard to keep up.


I thought it wasn't confirmed. I think Boris would like to say that - it was the case in March I think with the Government's herd immunity strategy but I seem to recall that WHO said it wasn't proven. Here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rd-immunity-who-uk-matt-hancock-a9510231.html


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I thought it wasn't confirmed. I think Boris would like to say that - it was the case in March I think with the Government's herd immunity strategy but I seem to recall that WHO said it wasn't proven.


Blasted story changes daily to the point I don't consider anything the definitive truth any more. On the 'let's be fair' side it is new and we've had to learn on the go. In the negative column there's no doubt our govt have told us what supposed 'science' supports their actions. It is all only opinion still I suppose.


----------



## havoc

I have friends in Balham, a couple, she’s a doctor who tested +ve for antibodies while her partner tested -ve. They have lived a normal close life together throughout so the options are:-
The test wasn’t accurate
He never got it from her which is almost impossible if it’s as infectious as they say
He did get it but so mild a dose that he didn’t produce antibodies.

We’ll never know.


----------



## Cully

Just stealing the words of someone on the news tonight as it rings so true with my own thoughts.
"It worries me that lots of people have given up on social distancing just as I'm gearing up to venture outside for the first time since lockdown."
There are lots of us feeling the same. No longer merely afraid, but now verging on paranoia.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> Many people nearing their end of life, from longterm conditions or similar, who might have died around now will have already lost their lives through the virus


That's exactly it and a drop in the figures was predicted. It's no surprise. Put baldly, a lot of people who would have died anyway at some point this year have gone a little sooner. Some to COVID and some because dealing with the virus diverted/delayed treatment which would have delayed their passing.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> "It worries me that lots of people have given up on social distancing just as I'm gearing up to venture outside for the first time since lockdown."
> There are lots of us feeling the same. No longer merely afraid, but now verging on paranoia.


Understandable but sad. Do you live in a high risk area? I'd be far more worried, and therefore far more cautious, if I did. There's a list showing cases per 100k for each area I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> I have friends in Balham, a couple, she's a doctor who tested +ve for antibodies while her partner tested -ve. They have lived a normal close life together throughout so the options are:-
> The test wasn't accurate
> He never got it from her which is almost impossible if it's as infectious as they say
> He did get it but so mild a dose that he didn't produce antibodies.
> 
> We'll never know.


A friend is self isolating for 14 days as she had to help her elderly parents. Her dad has had heart surgery cancelled because he tested positive, his wife negative. Yet they've been living together throughout all this. But my friend can't take any risks of course so she and her husband are indoors for 14 days.


----------



## havoc

Here you go
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/areas-england-highest-weekly-rate-111752378.html

It at least gives you some idea of risk in your area so you can tailor your behaviour. Outwith the obvious hotspots at the top of the list the figures are not nearly a scary as the headlines imply.


----------



## mrs phas

its all not helped by false alerts
this morning/lunchtime
it was being touted that the whole of suffolk was going into lockdown
this afternoon
it turns out its fake news!
extrapolated from one extra case, going from 2 positive cases to 3
FOR THE WHOLE OF SUFFOLK
which is not a small county, if mainly rural

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-is-suffolk-going-into-local-lockdown-1-6724742


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> Just stealing the words of someone on the news tonight as it rings so true with my own thoughts.
> "It worries me that lots of people have given up on social distancing just as I'm gearing up to venture outside for the first time since lockdown."
> There are lots of us feeling the same. No longer merely afraid, but now verging on paranoia.


Me too.

I went to Waitrose to get mum and dad's shopping and was amazed to see five members of staff in the aisle across it, all laughing and joking as I tried to dodge them with my mask on. When I went there in April, it was very sobering, lots of staff with shielding masks. I noticed barely any today. Maybe they are tested, I don't know.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Here you go
> https://uk.yahoo.com/news/areas-england-highest-weekly-rate-111752378.html
> 
> It at least gives you some idea of risk in your area so you can tailor your behaviour. Outwith the obvious hotspots at the top of the list the figures are not nearly a scary as the headlines imply.


5.1 here. 0.7 Cornwall. I wonder if that will change after weekend. We have decided to move our October holiday in Cornwall to next year.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> I went to Waitrose to get mum and dad's shopping and was amazed to see five members of staff in the aisle across it, all laughing and joking as I tried to dodge them with my mask on. When I went there in April, it was very sobering, lots of staff with shielding masks. I noticed barely any today. Maybe they are tested, I don't know.


I just keep the issue of contact time to the forefront of my mind in situations like that. Dodging past groups of people doesn't amount to anywhere near fifteen minutes of face to face contact.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> I just keep the issue of contact time to the forefront of my mind in situations like that. Dodging past groups of people doesn't amount to anywhere near fifteen minutes of face to face contact.


yes good point, I am very prone to over-catastrophising at the moment


----------



## havoc

mrs phas said:


> its all not helped by false alerts
> this morning/lunchtime
> it was being touted that the whole of suffolk was going into lockdown
> this afternoon
> it turns out its fake news!
> extrapolated from one extra case, going from 2 positive cases to 3
> FOR THE WHOLE OF SUFFOLK


Yeah it's all about how you choose to present the numbers. Going from one case to two would be a 100% increase if you want a scary headline.


----------



## havoc

MollySmith said:


> yes good point, I am very prone to over-catastrophising at the moment


I feel a LOT better since I decided to make my safety my business and ignore what 'other people' are doing. I can control my actions and my risk/reward calculation is absolutely unique to me.


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> Here you go
> https://uk.yahoo.com/news/areas-england-highest-weekly-rate-111752378.html
> 
> It at least gives you some idea of risk in your area so you can tailor your behaviour. Outwith the obvious hotspots at the top of the list the figures are not nearly a scary as the headlines imply.


Thanks. I'm in Kent. I had a look and it's 13.5 per 100,000 population. 
Also looked at BBC news website and it gives confirmed cases here at July 1st as 5,634 of a population of 1,581,555.
We have a large hospital which has a dedicated covid unit, so that may explain if the number is high.


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> Also looked at BBC news website and it gives confirmed cases here at July 1st as 5,634 of a population of 1,581,555


That figure includes everyone from the start though doesn't it which isn't how many constitute a current risk to you.

New cases at 13.5 five per 100k means 0.0135% of people in your area tested +ve last week. That's relatively 'high' compared with some others but it gives a different perspective for any fear factor, especially as basic common sense helps keep you safe.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Just stealing the words of someone on the news tonight as it rings so true with my own thoughts.
> "It worries me that lots of people have given up on social distancing just as I'm gearing up to venture outside for the first time since lockdown."
> There are lots of us feeling the same. No longer merely afraid, but now verging on paranoia.


What is it that you are planning or wanted to do when you are out?


----------



## Cully

havoc said:


> That figure includes everyone from the start though doesn't it which isn't how many constitute a current risk to you.
> 
> New cases at 13.5 five per 100k means 0.0135% of people in your area tested +ve last week. That's relatively 'high' compared with some others but it gives a different perspective for any fear factor, especially as basic common sense helps keep you safe.


But if the figure includes those who are/were in hospital with covid then maybe the actual figure local to me would be lower!


----------



## havoc

For anyone worried about venturing out around people - I did last weekend for the first time for a ‘social’ trip. I was a bit anxious mainly because I haven’t had to interact with people for so long. I can absolutely promise that the biggest sense of panic that washed over me was the moment I reached for my jeans after months spent in leggings. Luckily they still fit


----------



## havoc

Cully said:


> But if the figure includes those who are/were in hospital with covid then maybe the actual figure local to me would be lower!


Maybe. To me the figure isn't 'high', it's just higher than some others on the list.


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> What is it that you are planning or wanted to do when you are out?


Just go shopping at Tesco. Maybe go to the local card shop. Also worried if I needed a blood test or anything requiring a hospital visit. Take my cat to the vet if needed. I don't have transport so would need a taxi and that scares me, especially as it's one of the most vulnerable jobs.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Thanks. I'm in Kent. I had a look and it's 13.5 per 100,000 population.
> Also looked at BBC news website and it gives confirmed cases here at July 1st as 5,634 of a population of 1,581,555.
> We have a large hospital which has a dedicated covid unit, so that may explain if the number is high.


You can go right down to your local authority here 
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=utlas&map=case&area=e10000016


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Just go shopping at Tesco. Maybe go to the local card shop. Also worried if I needed a blood test or anything requiring a hospital visit. Take my cat to the vet if needed. I don't have transport so would need a taxi and that scares me, especially as it's one of the most vulnerable jobs.


Oh. Not something I am doing at all. Maybe a local shop would be best to start, wear a mask and take sanitizer with you 
Have you been out to go and have a look?


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Oh. Not something I am doing at all. Maybe a local shop would be best to start, wear a mask and take sanitizer with you
> Have you been out to go and have a look?


Haven't been anywhere since before lockdown and am now too scared to go out but I know I have to do it sometime.


----------



## havoc

It is scary but because you know how to take care you can minimise the risk. Taxi drivers and the like were high risk when nobody was taking any precautions, remember it took weeks for them to show up in the figures as seriously ill because we weren’t testing. I honestly think it’s safer now than in the week before lockdown. Your area ‘high’ figure means that if you stand in a field of one hundred thousand people only thirteen of them are positive. The chances of you interacting with a +ve individual are tiny and if you take proper precautions your chances of being infected are even tinier. Of course we have to take those without symptoms into account but we can identify likely suspects as mainly the young, maybe extend that to all under 40s and take extra care around those crazy youngsters.


----------



## O2.0

We're experiencing a surge here. In hindsight, I think we shut everything down way too soon. At the time there were barely 100 cases in the entire state, now when they decide to open things back up, the whole state is blowing up with cases, but I think a lot of that was the natural progression of the spread. Our 'peak' was far behind places like California and New York. Except now we're peaking and the state has opened back up, and no one is wanting to go backwards....

At least people seem to be doing better about masks - including me! 

Still have not heard my results, a bunch of people I know who got tested at the same mobile site, same day have all gotten theirs (all negative), but I've gotten nothing. I finally emailed DHEC today, got an automated response that they will get back to me. 

And to add to the fun, we have a Saharan dust cloud making everyone's sinuses go wonky.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> At least people seem to be doing better about masks - including me!


Thirteen weeks ago the official line here was that the public wearing masks would make things worse! I don't buy the story that they wanted to stop us buying up stocks which our NHS needed. The packs I bought are fine for me but would never qualify for use by professionals.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> Thirteen weeks ago the official line here was that the public wearing masks would make things worse! I don't buy the story that they wanted to stop us buying up stocks which our NHS needed. The packs I bought are fine for me but would never qualify for use by professionals.


It was the same story here. I don't use disposable masks, I have several cloth ones we wear and wash and rotate out. 
Considering how poorly we behaved over toilet paper, I do kind of buy the line that they were worried we'd go out and buy up all the available masks!


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Considering how poorly we behaved over toilet paper, I do kind of buy the line that they were worried we'd go out and buy up all the available masks!


The 'available' masks, those available to the public, wouldn't pass medical quality standards. Two completely different products.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> The 'available' masks, those available to the public, wouldn't pass medical quality standards. Two completely different products.


Really? Here they're not two different products. 
That's if you're talking surgical masks. The ultra filtering ones are different, but those were still available to the public too for when you do construction work.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Haven't been anywhere since before lockdown and am now too scared to go out but I know I have to do it sometime.


If you can I would try baby steps outside to get your confidence back. If you do make that trip to the shops and you are very worried. You could change your mask regularly (Taxi, tesco, card shop then Taxi) with sanitized hands and sanitize hands after every encounter.
I do agree with havoc, that it is far safer now than it was probably many weeks before lockdown. It's your risk to take though and your choice entirely.
I do think your fear is growing and it's not going to get better until you step out.
It's not as bad out there as the press would have you believe unless you are in one of those popular destinations. 
Having said this, I won't be doing any of the things you mention, but then I live a very different lifestyle and can go out and about without meeting many at all. 
When I have had to go places I really didn't want to go...........building society, doctor and chemist, it was generally fine


----------



## havoc

rona said:


> It's not as bad out there as the press would have you believe unless you are in one of those popular destinations


Of course it isn't, the vast majority of people are perfectly well behaved and anxious to do the right thing. Everything I've said is what I've learned to tell myself to get over that fear hurdle the media have delighted in setting out in front of me. Between them and the govt chopping and changing almost daily my only option has been to put my own strategies in place, both mental and physical. That at least gives me some small sense of control over my own destiny.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> Really? Here they're not two different products.
> That's if you're talking surgical masks


The disposable ones I have are much lower quality, they don't have the metal strip across the bridge of the nose which I believe is a requirement for professional use. I'm pretty sure I didn't deprive the NHS of anything they'd use. Our major chain pharmacies are selling disposable masks which are probably closer to professional spec - you'd have to hope so with what they're charging for them.


----------



## Boxer123

I’ve been to scared to go anywhere but had to yesterday. I scratched my eye weeks ago and the pain was getting worse. 

Due to a back log I couldn’t get an appointment anywhere until Friday doctors said I needed to go to the opticians. Eventually I phoned the place I had an appointment Friday and said I was in so much pain could I take something until Friday. So she said to come down in what I think was her lunchbreak. The shop was clean and divided so easy to distance from other customers. I wore a mask so did the Optician. 

So a big thank you to Specsavers in Didcot.


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> I've been to scared to go anywhere but had to yesterday. I scratched my eye weeks ago and the pain was getting worse.
> 
> Due to a back log I couldn't get an appointment anywhere until Friday doctors said I needed to go to the opticians. Eventually I phoned the place I had an appointment Friday and said I was in so much pain could I take something until Friday. So she said to come down in what I think was her lunchbreak. The shop was clean and divided so easy to distance from other customers. I wore a mask so did the Optician.
> 
> So a big thank you to Specsavers in Didcot.


Glad you got your eye sorted hope you're feeling better!


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Glad you got your eye sorted hope you're feeling better!


Thank you I've never known pain like it. It's amazing in normal times getting an appointment would be no issue. The things we take for granted. I need some wrap around glasses for running.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Happy Paws2

I really not looking forward to tomorrow, the thought of the pub over the road opening fills me with dread, it a rowdy place over crowded place at the best of times, it isn't very big pub and people are always going in and I just don't see social distancing working over there.


----------



## kimthecat

@Happy Paws2  I sympathise . our local down the road closed down some time ago , Thank goodness.

The cases of corona virus in our Borough have risen from 2,5 to 5.9. There's approx 300. 000 people living here so that sounds a lot more cases.


----------



## Cully

On the news tonight a doctor (A & E I think) was being interviewed and said he was very worried about pubs opening. He said he anticipates after a few drinks covid will be forgotten and is dreading the pre covid drunken influx into hospitals again. Doesn't think they will be able to cope.


----------



## SbanR

@Cully I did my first Aldi early shop for oldies last week.
It was lovely!
There were 6 others, besides me (2 couples).
Shelves packed with fresh produce. Went a little dizzy and bought too much veg
It was an experience shopping in semi darkness as only dim lighting on; and I'm pretty short sighted. Picture me peering at the packages, trying my best Not to handle goods unnecessarily.
Next time, I'm going to take a pocket torch with me

Today, I had to go to the doctors for my shingles jab. So carried on into town, to have a look. It was much quieter than I expected, especially as its market day.
Took a chance and went into Asda! Still some large empty spaces on the shelves.

But really, as others have said, it's much quieter than the impression we're given.

The only downside was the bus ride home.
A guy came on. Lied to the driver about having a mask and would put it on.
He didn't have one.

I think you should be ok if you just go out for a little ride round on your scooter for a look-see. Needn't enter any shops. Get the feel of the land.
Xx


----------



## Cully

@SbanR , oh well done you, quite a marathon.
The first thing I must do is check the long path leading to Tesco as if it's covered in twigs the wind has blown then I won't risk it. Over the years every puncture I've had has been on that path, and each time the repairman has pulled out a thorn.
You'd think the cost for a scooter wheel would be cheap but each puncture costs me £50+. So it's not a penny pinching thing it's a real concern. Also the inconvenience getting my scooter home with a flat, and if course at the moment, whether someone would come out to me.
Once I've had look at the path I can decide what to do next.
How come the lights in Aldi were dim?


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> @SbanR , oh well done you, quite a marathon.
> The first thing I must do is check the long path leading to Tesco as if it's covered in twigs the wind has blown then I won't risk it. Over the years every puncture I've had has been on that path, and each time the repairman has pulled out a thorn.
> You'd think the cost for a scooter wheel would be cheap but each puncture costs me £50+. So it's not a penny pinching thing it's a real concern. Also the inconvenience getting my scooter home with a flat, and if course at the moment, whether someone would come out to me.
> Once I've had look at the path I can decide what to do next.
> How come the lights in Aldi were dim?


The store opens at 8 to the general public (proper lights come on then).
Oldies and vulnerable allowed in from 7.30 to shop but can only pay at 8 when the tills are manned.

On my walk into town yesterday, I bumped into my hairdresser's daughter. He's back in the salon Sunday and Monday!!! Time sharing with the others. Think I'll start ringing the salon from 7.30


----------



## mrs phas

SbanR said:


> The store opens at 8 to the general public (proper lights come on then).
> Oldies and vulnerable allowed in from 7.30 to shop but can only pay at 8 when the tills are manned.


Surely that's a little pointless then?
I was of the understanding that these special times were to get them in and out before the great unwashed started piling in
Keeping them safe and allowing them access to stuff that was being stockpiled
The old and, not isolating, disabled are hardly being kept safe, if they're having to wait to go through checkouts with all and sundry


----------



## Boxer123

Is anyone going to the pub today ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Is anyone going to the pub today ?


Not on your Nelly!


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> The store opens at 8 to the general public (proper lights come on then).
> Oldies and vulnerable allowed in from 7.30 to shop but can only pay at 8 when the tills are manned.
> 
> On my walk into town yesterday, I bumped into my hairdresser's daughter. He's back in the salon Sunday and Monday!!! Time sharing with the others. Think I'll start ringing the salon from 7.30


Good luck with getting a hair appointment.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I need to go to Sainsbury's to get my prescription and get a few treats in, so we got up early this morning and went out at 7.30 expecting as it was 
Saturday to be busy but we went straight in no queuing, no queues at the pharmacy or at the tills. 
Spent much more than we meant to but who cares you can't take t with you.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> Is anyone going to the pub today ?


the only one of my sons that is going is matts twin
and hes only going cos hes a bouncer
heres hoping people behave and he doesnt have to get close and personal to anyone
but after 100 days shut down
somehow i doubt it


----------



## SbanR

mrs phas said:


> Surely that's a little pointless then?
> I was of the understanding that these special times were to get them in and out before the great unwashed started piling in
> Keeping them safe and allowing them access to stuff that was being stockpiled
> The old and, not isolating, disabled are hardly being kept safe, if they're having to wait to go through checkouts with all and sundry


Well, it does take time to walk round picking the items you're after.
By the time the doors were unlocked I was only just finishing my shop. Got through checkout before too many folk came in.
Things have calmed down A LOT now - no great avalanche of folk panic buying (here at least!)


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Good luck with getting a hair appointment.


Thank you


----------



## Siskin

Would be interesting to hear how you get on at a hairdressers @Cully. A friend told me at her hairdressers they want you to come with wet pre washed hair, they will then cut it and send you home with wet hair for you to blow dry at home.


----------



## rona

Anyone know what the hell they are doing with the stats?

My local and district figures seemed to double over night, while they were taking 30,000 of the total


----------



## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> Is anyone going to the pub today ?


No. I dont generally go to pubs. Most of them have closed anyway and houses built on the land.

However we met a man with 4 staffies from the other side of the park just now and he said he saw at least 40 people queuing to get into his local pub.

@rona Our borough , the virus number had gone up.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

rona said:


> Anyone know what the hell they are doing with the stats?
> 
> My local and district figures seemed to double over night, while they were taking 30,000 of the total


I've given up!!
Earlier in the week we were one of the 36 places in danger.
Turns out they were working on % and we went from 2 cases to 5.
Following day 1.5 per 100,000 people.
I felt relief and started to think about doing more.
Hey ho, now they're saying we've gone up 100+ cases in a week.
No idea what they base that on and can't be #rsed to find out.
I'm staying as I am until I see the implications of this weekend.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> A friend told me at her hairdressers they want you to come with wet pre washed hair, they will then cut it and send you home with wet hair for you to blow dry at home.


This is how I try to get my hair appts to operate pre-lockdown!!LOL:Hilarious (I really hate people fiddling about near my head!).

I imagine rates will go up abit. Not only are we coming out of lockdown but also the testing has been ramped up quite abit. Besides it was never about stopping everybody catching covid...just stopping everybody catching it all at once!


----------



## Boxer123

catz4m8z said:


> This is how I try to get my hair appts to operate pre-lockdown!!LOL:Hilarious (I really hate people fiddling about near my head!).
> 
> I imagine rates will go up abit. Not only are we coming out of lockdown but also the testing has been ramped up quite abit. Besides it was never about stopping everybody catching covid...just stopping everybody catching it all at once!


I hate when they start massaging my head get off !

Luckily my youngest sister used to be a hairdresser she is coming next weekend to sort me out. I look like a yeti.


----------



## Siskin

Spoke to my daughter today and asked about the theatre she works for as I had heard that 400 people are being made redundant at the National. She said that her jobs ok (she’s fairly high up and good at what she does) and that the theatre had taken the decision not to open this year as it would be too expensive for them to try and open if the government gives the go ahead to theatres to open, it’s cheaper for them to stay closed. She’s planning next years spring and summer plays now


----------



## ForestWomble

Got to see my parents today for a couple of hours, first time I've seen them properly since February!

We had a couple of essential jobs to do and with one we couldn't socially distance so decided to wear our masks, I could only wear mine for about 10 or 15 minutes before feeling really ill, so that's a worry if I have to go somewhere were masks are needed - hopefully I won't have to.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Would be interesting to hear how you get on at a hairdressers @Cully. A friend told me at her hairdressers they want you to come with wet pre washed hair, they will then cut it and send you home with wet hair for you to blow dry at home.


That shouldn't really apply to me as I have been getting my hair cut by a mobile hairdresser who comes to my home for the last few years now, and I hope she will continue to do that. I
It may mean going into the garden but that ok with me. And I always wash mine just before she's due anyway.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> That shouldn't really apply to me as I have been getting my hair cut by a mobile hairdresser who comes to my home for the last few years now, and I hope she will continue to do that. I
> It may mean going into the garden but that ok with me. And I always wash mine just before she's due anyway.


I'm unable to use the shower at the moment so having strip washes, but my hair really needed washing. So we took the perching chair outside which I can manage to sit on and not have to try and bend my leg and my husband used a spray wash thing that we keep in the motorhome to wash the dog off when we are away (it's a bit like a Mud Daddy). Apart from a wet T shirt it worked really well and very nice to have clean hair again. If we didn't have such close neighbours I would have taken the T shirt off, but couldn't quite bring myself to do that.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> Is anyone going to the pub today ?


I work in-house one or two days a week for a company here and we heard on Friday that the offices aren't expecting anyone back in large volumes until 2021 (they will be open from August for 50 people, the building holds 800 people usually). On the basis I need to earn to go to the pub, nope!

I have been getting a takeaway once or twice a month to support a business, getting beer from breweries (CAMRA has a list on their website by area). Also bought voucher for salon too but with 53,000 dead (yesterday I believe), I'm only going out for essentials and I love my local pubs.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The pub over the road hasn't opened yet.


----------



## catz4m8z

Im fully expecting work to suck when I go back because of the pubs! I may not work in A&E (who will see the majority of the drunken timewasters) but my ward does deal with alcohol related problems. Still it will be nice for the locals to sit down for their drinks and not have to wander up and down the high street with a can of Stella!:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

@Elles How is it going with your horses. Are you out riding now?


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve had a bit of pants day. I rent a desk at the university and we have been told not to except to go back until 2021. I had a an idea but it’s a bit tough to hear. I don’t know, I’m working in the room at home that was meant to be for our children. Lucky to have a job and a business but tough sometimes being here. Hope everyone else is okay.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I've had a bit of pants day. I rent a desk at the university and we have been told not to except to go back until 2021. I had a an idea but it's a bit tough to hear. I don't know, I'm working in the room at home that was meant to be for our children. Lucky to have a job and a business but tough sometimes being here. Hope everyone else is okay.


Oh dear, that's a long way off.

I can imagine it must be tough to think of the room as "just an office" all things considered 

DH and I are still pretty much in Lockdown and staying well away from everyone. I'm in no rush to get back out there and can't help feeling edgy when I've had to venture out.

He joins Jack and I on our morning walk as avoiding people then is easy and he feels fairly safe as it's in the open.


----------



## westie~ma

@MollySmith sending you hugs ((( )))

Here in Wales, freedom ... well, sort of

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-52416541

While I'm venturing out for food shopping and also supplies for the garden and to do some decorating, everywhere seems very busy (cars, people walking in town).

It's unnerving nipping out and if there are big queues I don't bother waiting and come home.

All this while trying to stay 5 miles, so glad that has stopped now.

We did a tidy at the cottage a few weeks ago that's the furthest I've been in a while since Drakeford said we could prep self contained properties. We are hoping to have a few days down there after 13th July which is when we will be allowed to stay overnight.

Today I painted my garage door.


----------



## kimthecat

Suspected case of Bubonic plague in Mongolia  Its treatable with antibiotics, thank goodness.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-health-case-bubonic-plague-inner-mongolia-082147262.html


----------



## Elles

kimthecat said:


> @Elles How is it going with your horses. Are you out riding now?


I rode a couple of times, but then I thought it's still too risky. Even though lockdown is easing, the virus hasn't gone away and I don't want to catch it. Thanks for asking.


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> Oh dear, that's a long way off.
> 
> I can imagine it must be tough to think of the room as "just an office" all things considered
> 
> DH and I are still pretty much in Lockdown and staying well away from everyone.  I'm in no rush to get back out there and can't help feeling edgy when I've had to venture out.
> 
> He joins Jack and I on our morning walk as avoiding people then is easy and he feels fairly safe as it's in the open.


Pretty much the same here, though hubby does go to work, he's isolated there too. I spend a lot of time talking to myself and Elles, so at least I have intelligent conversation.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Suspected case of Bubonic plague in Mongolia  Its treatable with antibiotics, thank goodness.
> 
> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-health-case-bubonic-plague-inner-mongolia-082147262.html


Wouldn't have even been reported in normal times. Press scaremongering again?


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> Wouldn't have even been reported in normal times. Press scaremongering again?


I saw that in the news too. We get cases of bubonic plague all the time. It's a non-story in non-pandemic times. People get exposed to the plague, take ABs, done. Happens in the southwestern US fairly regularly.

There have been a few illness related headlines lately that have me thinking "this is not anything new" but reporting it as if it were new/unusual. Makes me angry at how much media - mainstream and social, control us.

Was listening to a podcast the other day with Dr. David Katz https://www.richroll.com/podcast/dr-david-katz-517/ and one of the many thoughtful points he made was that if we were giving equal scrutiny to similar scourges on humanity like cardiovascular disease we would be mobilizing like crazy to end cardiovascular disease. Yes, of course, cardiovascular disease is not contagious, you can't get it sitting on a bus next to someone with it, there are important differences. But the point about media saturation is valid. If we saturated media with stories of 20 year olds having strokes, and depressing numbers of deaths every single day.


----------



## Siskin

I don’t know if anyone else watched it. There was a half hour Panorama program at 7.30 bbc 1 yesterday evening about cancer patients not being seen during the coravirus epidemic and how some have since died or because they haven’t had treatment they are now much sicker then they were and nothing further can be done. 
I don’t know how widespread this was around the country or whether it was just big city hospitals being affected by coronavirus thereby doctors stopping cancer treatments to keep cancer sufferers safe from getting the virus.
After watching this I count myself very lucky over the treatment I received and how quickly the whole thing has been resolved. 
The oncology department in Cheltenham is part of the the hospital but is in a wing with its own separate entrance. Whilst I was attending radiotherapy sessions there the department was clear of the virus. Same with the hospital in Birmingham which is an appointment only hospital with no A&E. They did have coronavirus patients during March/April due to people coming in for appointments not knowing they had the virus which was when they stopped face to face appointments unless absolutely necessary. They then deep cleaned the wards and much of the hospital, stopped referrals from other hospitals and concentrated on cancer patients like me. They have now started to do routine orthapaedic ops such as hip and knee replacements.

I do think I’m very lucky to be living in this area of the country with a good local oncology department plus a centre of excellence for my kind of cancer not far away.


----------



## kimthecat

@Siskin I couldnt bring myself to watch. I saw a bit on the BBC news and was crying for the lovely young woman who died a few days after they filmed.

Im so glad you received your treatment. It was in feb 2018 that my mammogram showed I had cancer and I think myself so lucky it was then and not this year. I might have not gone for the mammo as I had no suspicion something as wrong and didnt see it coming. Perhaps God and the universe were on my side.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> @Siskin I couldnt bring myself to watch. I saw a bit on the BBC news and was crying for the lovely young woman who died a few days after they filmed.
> 
> Im so glad you received your treatment. It was in feb 2018 that my mammogram showed I had cancer and I think myself so lucky it was then and not this year. I might have not gone for the mammo as I had no suspicion something as wrong and didnt see it coming. Perhaps God and the universe were on my side.


I wasn't planning to watch it, just came in part way through and ended up seeing it through tomthe end. I felt so sorry for the people interviewed especially the girl that died.
I also wondered if my treatment was earmarked to continue as it would cure me and was not palliative. A friend had his chemo stopped right from the start and is about to start again soon. It was decided that he didn't needntonhave it at that particular time. What ever the reason I'm so greatful to be cured and gradually recovering. I'm never going to forget this year for a lot of reasons


----------



## havoc

Ok, I’m about to trivialise this thread, be utterly petty and rant.
Three months of varying levels of lockdown, three months of my neighbours four doors down being home more than usual. Three months where they didn’t need anything from me and there’s been ZERO contact. Not a single text asking if we need anything, nothing. I sent a text asking how they were doing at one point and it was ignored. Suddenly, they’ve let me know I’m required to let their dog out for them again, something I did as a favour pre lockdown a couple of times a week or so depending on their shifts. 

Not effing happening!


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Ok, I'm about to trivialise this thread, be utterly petty and rant.
> Three months of varying levels of lockdown, three months of my neighbours four doors down being home more than usual. Three months where they didn't need anything from me and there's been ZERO contact. Not a single text asking if we need anything, nothing. I sent a text asking how they were doing at one point and it was ignored. Suddenly, they've let me know I'm required to let their dog out for them again, something I did as a favour pre lockdown a couple of times a week or so depending on their shifts.
> 
> Not effing happening!


I'd tell them to bog off too!

Bloody fair weather 'friends'.


----------



## Boxer123

havoc said:


> Ok, I'm about to trivialise this thread, be utterly petty and rant.
> Three months of varying levels of lockdown, three months of my neighbours four doors down being home more than usual. Three months where they didn't need anything from me and there's been ZERO contact. Not a single text asking if we need anything, nothing. I sent a text asking how they were doing at one point and it was ignored. Suddenly, they've let me know I'm required to let their dog out for them again, something I did as a favour pre lockdown a couple of times a week or so depending on their shifts.
> 
> Not effing happening!


That's so cheeky I've moved now but my old neighbour used to help with the boys. We have been chatting through lockdown.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> Ok, I'm about to trivialise this thread, be utterly petty and rant.
> Three months of varying levels of lockdown, three months of my neighbours four doors down being home more than usual. Three months where they didn't need anything from me and there's been ZERO contact. Not a single text asking if we need anything, nothing. I sent a text asking how they were doing at one point and it was ignored. Suddenly, they've let me know I'm required to let their dog out for them again, something I did as a favour pre lockdown a couple of times a week or so depending on their shifts.
> 
> Not effing happening!


That is awful and so rude! I do understand how some people just want to withdraw into themselves, I have to a certain degree but I do reply to texts asking how I am and I do enquire how they themselves are. I would not dream of asking a favour of someone I hadn`t even bothered to respond to!


----------



## havoc

I feel ridiculously slighted, really taken for granted. I’ve had a particularly difficult time and it turns out they know - and they knew. They couldn’t even be bothered to send a ‘sorry for your loss’ text but assume I’ll jump when they want.


----------



## kimthecat

havoc said:


> I feel ridiculously slighted, really taken for granted. I've had a particularly difficult time and it turns out they know - and they knew. They couldn't even be bothered to send a 'sorry for your loss' text but assume I'll jump when they want.


 Im sorry to hear that. i used to walk a dog every week day for a couple of years and I never even got a Christmas card . 
They sound very selfish. 
Do you think it would help you if you told them how you feel .


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> I feel ridiculously slighted, really taken for granted. I've had a particularly difficult time and it turns out they know - and they knew. They couldn't even be bothered to send a 'sorry for your loss' text but assume I'll jump when they want.


That makes it even worse if they were aware


----------



## havoc

MilleD said:


> That makes it even worse if they were aware


I know! I'm astounded at the attitude, not going to dwell on it but really????


----------



## Lurcherlad

havoc said:


> I know! I'm astounded at the attitude, not going to dwell on it but really????


I've had similar treatment from a couple of so called long term friends in the past. Once they didn't need my (not inconsiderable) support they made little effort so I withdrew and eventually dropped them.

Good riddance!


----------



## Mum2Heidi

That’s so bad.
People never cease to surprise me. 
Ive had strangers step up when friends didn’t bother.
A friend of 30 years accuse me of things I wouldn’t do to my worst enemy.
I try to learn from it and move on.
For every bad penny there’s a few diamonds.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had another hospital appointment changed to a phone call consultation this Sunday at 10.30am.

Just waiting to see what happens to another appointment I have in August.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Oh dear, that's a long way off.
> 
> I can imagine it must be tough to think of the room as "just an office" all things considered
> 
> DH and I are still pretty much in Lockdown and staying well away from everyone. I'm in no rush to get back out there and can't help feeling edgy when I've had to venture out.
> 
> He joins Jack and I on our morning walk as avoiding people then is easy and he feels fairly safe as it's in the open.





westie~ma said:


> @MollySmith sending you hugs ((( )))
> 
> Here in Wales, freedom ... well, sort of
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-52416541
> 
> While I'm venturing out for food shopping and also supplies for the garden and to do some decorating, everywhere seems very busy (cars, people walking in town).
> 
> It's unnerving nipping out and if there are big queues I don't bother waiting and come home.
> 
> All this while trying to stay 5 miles, so glad that has stopped now.
> 
> We did a tidy at the cottage a few weeks ago that's the furthest I've been in a while since Drakeford said we could prep self contained properties. We are hoping to have a few days down there after 13th July which is when we will be allowed to stay overnight.
> 
> Today I painted my garage door.


Thank you both so much. It's appreciated. A lot of snotty crying this week so far. It's just all caught up with me and I've been relatively okay so far. I guess it catches up with us eventually.


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> Ok, I'm about to trivialise this thread, be utterly petty and rant.
> Three months of varying levels of lockdown, three months of my neighbours four doors down being home more than usual. Three months where they didn't need anything from me and there's been ZERO contact. Not a single text asking if we need anything, nothing. I sent a text asking how they were doing at one point and it was ignored. Suddenly, they've let me know I'm required to let their dog out for them again, something I did as a favour pre lockdown a couple of times a week or so depending on their shifts.
> 
> Not effing happening!


Make them beg! I'd be offended too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> Thank you both so much. It's appreciated. A lot of snotty crying this week so far. It's just all caught up with me and I've been relatively okay so far. I guess it catches up with us eventually.


It does, even in normal circumstance but these days nothing much seems very normal 

Hopefully, having some good old crying sessions has let a little steam out of the pressure cooker for you


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> It does, even in normal circumstance but these days nothing much seems very normal
> 
> Hopefully, having some good old crying sessions has let a little steam out of the pressure cooker for you


It did help a lot, thank you.


----------



## O2.0

Y'all should be proud. Article in CNN today about why Britons won't wear masks. Aside from the US and Brazil, apparently the UK is the hardest hit, and it was just recently that BJ wore a mask in public, many Britons still won't. 
Copying us Americans again  

So fess up? Do you wear a mask? 
I did resist initially, but have been for a while now, we have a fun collection of masks tucked away in vehicles, my purse, on the table by the door... Still manage to lose them a lot, left two in a friend's car the other day - duh! Had to laugh with that friend, we were in line, wearing our masks, it was very hot, so she kept taking her sunglasses off to breathe better, you know, like you turn down the radio in the car to see better? :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Y'all should be proud. Article in CNN today about why Britons won't wear masks. Aside from the US and Brazil, apparently the UK is the hardest hit, and it was just recently that BJ wore a mask in public, many Britons still won't.
> Copying us Americans again
> 
> So fess up? Do you wear a mask?
> I did resist initially, but have been for a while now, we have a fun collection of masks tucked away in vehicles, my purse, on the table by the door... Still manage to lose them a lot, left two in a friend's car the other day - duh! Had to laugh with that friend, we were in line, wearing our masks, it was very hot, so she kept taking her sunglasses off to breathe better, you know, like you turn down the radio in the car to see better? :Hilarious:Hilarious


I wear a mask in the shops if I have to go. I honestly don't why our government is so stupid.


----------



## ForestWomble

My Uncle recently came back to the UK from the Azores (been there years) and he was saying the Azores are practically virus free and that their mindset is to wear a mask to protect others. Even before covid, he went into a shop once and asked the lady behind the till why she was wearing a mask and her response: "So I don't infect others" (she had a cold), as a nation our mindset needs to shift from 'so I don't get ill' to 'so I don't infect others', somehow.

Edited to add: I haven't been in a shop since before covid, but if I did I would wear a mask.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I wear a mask when I go anywhere near a shop.

I don't understand why they give a choice to wear one in a shop and a must on a bus or a train and if you don't wear one you can be fined.

Does BJ really know what his doing.


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> So fess up? Do you wear a mask?


I only go out to walk the dog and keep 2 metres away from people so don't wear one. Im going away tomorrow so will be taking masks to wear and she wee so I dont have to use public toilets.

ETA Seems people just ignore the rules. Seem buses go by and people not wearing masks.

Local parks , kids jumping over the railings and playing on the swings etc and adults have pulled down the fences to the keep fit things.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I wish it was mandatory in public - full stop.

Keep it simple.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> I wish it was mandatory in public - full stop.
> Keep it simple.


I don't understand why they don't, it make sense me.


----------



## Siskin

I haven't been to a shop since early coming March. My husband wears a mask when he goes to a nearby larger village which has a few shops, notably a bread shop and also has a van on Wednesdays selling fresh fruit, apart from that we are still isolating ourselves.

I wish the government would make it mandatory to wear masks in shops at the moment, leaving it to the publics choice won’t work as there are too many stupid people who think it won’t affect them or just don’t understand the reason why (dare I say it - too thick?). They need to be told that if they want to go in a shop then they require a mask or they won’t be allowed in.


----------



## StormyThai

O2.0 said:


> So fess up? Do you wear a mask?


I do and so does my partner (taxi driver)










So few are wearing masks around here it's shocking, especially as social distancing seems to be a thing of the past


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> I haven't been to a shop since early coming March. My husband wears a mask when he goes to a nearby larger village which has a few shops, notably a bread shop and also has a van on Wednesdays selling fresh fruit, apart from that we are still isolating ourselves.
> 
> I wish the government would make it mandatory to wear masks in shops at the moment, leaving it to the publics choice won't work as there are too many stupid people who think it won't affect them or just don't understand the reason why (dare I say it - too thick?). They need to be told that if they want to go in a shop then they require a mask or they won't be allowed in.


In Hungary, wearing a mask in public buildings, shops and on public transport is compulsory. Although as far as I can tell the majority of people abide by the rules, there are those who don't, mainly younger people.

I keep several masks in the glove compartment of my car along with hand sanitiser, Domestos wet wipes, Kleenex tissues and poop bags for used masks etc, Depending on what I'm doing, like getting petrol then driving to the supermarket, I can use two or three masks and sanitise my hands numerous times.

Last Sunday whilst the dogs were at the groomers I went and did a big shop in the Tesco Hypermarket. Everyone I saw was wearing a mask and as it was only 10 am, it wasn't very busy so keeping a good distance from other shoppers wasn't difficult. Every Wednesday the boys and I go to training and even though it's outside both Gabor (our trainer) and I always wear masks because when faffing around with the dogs it's sometimes easy to forget about keeping a 2 metre distance!


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> So fess up? Do you wear a mask?


No, I haven't done yet. The autistic mindset doesn't help, as I'm not sure what kind and how many I'd need, and unanswered questions make me indecisive (especially when all the answers are different!). I don't want disposables for environmental reasons, but living on my own I only do one load of washing a week at most which is impractical for cloth.

So at the moment I'm settling for not going out at all except for food shopping and other essentials - driving/walking, no public transport, in and out as fast as possible. If they do make face coverings mandatory, I have some neck scarves I can use - or, if I want, I can _really _freak people out by using my sandblasting mask


----------



## Cully

StormyThai said:


> I do and so does my partner (taxi driver)


I find it interesting your partner being a taxi driver with it being such a difficult job to do and social distance.
As someone who only uses a mobility scooter to go shopping, I normally use taxis for longer journeys and am particularly worried about using them now and what the rules are about keeping safe, (info is very sketchy). I not only want to keep myself as safe as possible but also respect the drivers for putting themselves in a vulnerable position.


----------



## StormyThai

Cully said:


> I find it interesting your partner being a taxi driver with it being such a difficult job to do and social distance.
> As someone who only uses a mobility scooter to go shopping, I normally use taxis for longer journeys and am particularly worried about using them now and what the rules are about keeping safe, (info is very sketchy). I not only want to keep myself as safe as possible but also respect the drivers for putting themselves in a vulnerable position.


Thankfully he is only doing a couple of runs a day at the moment taking a couple of kids to and from school, not all taxi drivers are wearing masks though (around here anyway).
If you have to use a taxi I would ask for a mask wearing driver when you book it to help ease your worry.


----------



## havoc

I keep some in the car 'in case' I end up somewhere I'd need to eg stopping off at a shop when it hasn't been a planned event. That hasn't happened yet but I won't get caught out. Other than that I wear one inside the supermarket but I don't put one on until I'm going inside. I don't intend to wear one in the gym unless it's made compulsory.


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> No, I haven't done yet. The autistic mindset doesn't help, as I'm not sure what kind and how many I'd need, and unanswered questions make me indecisive (especially when all the answers are different!). I don't want disposables for environmental reasons, but living on my own I only do one load of washing a week at most which is impractical for cloth.


You can hand wash a cloth mask and leave it to dry.


----------



## havoc

Jesthar said:


> I don't want disposables for environmental reasons,


Absolutely not ideal I agree but having to wash cloth ones isn't zero environmental cost either - and I'm not confident in the efficacy of washing and I'm sure as hell not cutting up my expensive sheets which are the only things I have with a high enough thread count to be effective.


----------



## catz4m8z

TBH I dont usually bother with a mask when shopping...I just stay far away from other people. Ive no objection to it but it is too confusing at the moment to just have guidelines or suggestions rather then set rules one way or another.

Although I had the result of my antibody test yesterday and its positive so feel free to cough on me!! Im chockful of antibodies!!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> I don't want disposables for environmental reasons, but living on my own I only do one load of washing a week at most which is impractical for cloth.


We do a lot of laundry but we're gross about washing masks. I have one in my purse I haven't washed in a week. But we're wearing masks to protect others, not ourselves, so I guess not washing them is only gross for us.

I'm sold on masks. Worst case scenario they do nothing. But they're not harmful.

But I think a lot of other things, we're operating on what we *think* the data means instead of the reality. Like, why are we not looking in to cases like the cruise ship and the navy ship where only 20% of the passengers even got infected even though all were exposed. (Don't quote me on that percent, it might not have been that low, but I do remember something about 8 out of 10 people exposed didn't even get the virus.)

We're hearing a lot about herd immunity, but herd immunity requires 70% of the population to be infected, and at this rate even in the US with our high number of cases, total lack of social distancing and minimal mask wearing, we only have 3 million out of 300 million people infected. (I'm rounding up and down 'cause math is not my strong suit. 3.29 million confirmed cases, population 328.2 million) either way, around 1% of the population.

What if it's not as infectious as we first thought? What if it has mutated and become less virulent? What if what we think we know about how it spreads isn't the whole picture? 
I'm old enough to remember when AIDS first showed up and the changing landscape of who was succeptible and how it spread. The big to-do about Oprah hugging Ryan White and shaking his hand. When the olympic diver cut his head on the diving board and everyone freaked out... I just think there is SO much we don't know and we're making these huge decisions based on predictions and theories, not known reality. 
Why have some healthcare workers on the front line gotten sick and others not? Why are we not studying these populations?

My very healthy friend who works from home, lives alone, and only leaves the house for quick trips to the store using her own vehicle and not public transportation somehow got infected and has been very sick (at home) for 2 months now. I've been out and about and haven't stopped, husband out working, teens working and socializing, none of us have gotten sick. There has to be an explanation here. (My friend and I are in the same state, so it's not a location thing.)

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like we're spending a lot of time and energy on those who are getting sick and not looking at those who have not gotten sick and why that may be. Maybe there's something super simple we're missing like it's spread through coffee or something and if you're a coffee drinker you're more likely to get it. Obviously I don't think it's a coffee thing, but something simple like that. Part of me feels like there is something obvious right under our noses that we're not seeing. Yet.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> TBH I dont usually bother with a mask when shopping...I just stay far away from other people. Ive no objection to it but it is too confusing at the moment to just have guidelines or suggestions rather then set rules one way or another.
> 
> Although I had the result of my antibody test yesterday and its positive so feel free to cough on me!! Im chockful of antibodies!!LOL:Hilarious


Ah but you could still be carrying it couldn't you and it's all about protecting others not ourselves. If they want us to wear them I do think that's a tired message. When I'm in the supermarket next to someone who's unmasked and horribly obese with a trolley full of rubbish I'm afraid I don't feel they deserve to be protected. I'm getting increasingly bored with being expected to go to efforts for others when they can't be bothered to do anything for themselves.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> When I'm in the supermarket next to someone who's unmasked and horribly obese with a trolley full of rubbish I'm afraid I don't feel they deserve to be protected. I'm getting increasingly bored with being expected to go to efforts for others when they can't be bothered to do anything for themselves.


 So is it just 'horribly obese' people who deserve to catch covid or anybody who isnt wearing a mask??:Wideyed (asking on behalf of my horribly obese brethren!). I dont think you can blame people for not knowing exactly what to do when event he government doesnt seem sure either! I mean its different on public transport as there are clear rules but not as yet for shopping.


----------



## havoc

catz4m8z said:


> So is it just 'horribly obese' people who deserve to catch covid or anybody who isnt wearing a mask


Frankly anyone who through chosen lifestyle has put themselves at increased risk. I didn't say they deserved to catch it, I said they were undeserving of me going to extra efforts on their behalf when they do nothing to minimise their own risk.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> Frankly anyone who through chosen lifestyle has put themselves at increased risk. I didn't say they deserved to catch it, I said they were undeserving of me going to extra efforts on their behalf when they do nothing to minimise their own risk.


well, good for you...that you can tell someones chosen lifestyle just by looking at them.:Wideyed

Enjoy your omnipotence!!:Hilarious


----------



## Jaf

Masks are becoming more of a problem for me. I have a breathing condition and a mask limits my intake. Most of Spain is probably going to make masks mandatory even when Social distancing. Apart from exercising, eating or sitting on the beach! Cos apparently that’s safe. Hmmm. 

I’m going back to my drs to get exemption certificate. I wear a mask when I can, only go food shop and drs, but remove it a lot to get some air in. I’ve never wore a mask from car to shop, but will have to somehow if dr doesn’t comply.


----------



## ChaosCat

Jaf said:


> Masks are becoming more of a problem for me. I have a breathing condition and a mask limits my intake. Most of Spain is probably going to make masks mandatory even when Social distancing. Apart from exercising, eating or sitting on the beach! Cos apparently that's safe. Hmmm.
> 
> I'm going back to my drs to get exemption certificate. I wear a mask when I can, only go food shop and drs, but remove it a lot to get some air in. I've never wore a mask from car to shop, but will have to somehow if dr doesn't comply.


Maybe you can use a shield?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intimates-...d&qid=1594579105&sprefix=face+,aps,171&sr=8-2


----------



## kimthecat

ChaosCat said:


> Maybe you can use a shield?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intimates-Protection-Transparent-Shield-Adjustable/dp/B08BTJGC9J/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2CYW4CDCIHP2E&dchild=1&keywords=face+shield&qid=1594579105&sprefix=face+,aps,171&sr=8-2


I have trouble understanding what people are saying to me when they wear a mask so shields are better.

Clear Mask are being made for nurses etc so that lip readers can understand them


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> Ah but you could still be carrying it couldn't you and it's all about protecting others not ourselves. If they want us to wear them I do think that's a tired message. When I'm in the supermarket next to someone who's unmasked and horribly obese with a trolley full of rubbish I'm afraid I don't feel they deserve to be protected. I'm getting increasingly bored with being expected to go to efforts for others when they can't be bothered to do anything for themselves.


Damn Havoc! That sounds awfully harsh! 
If they were asking us to do push-ups or something maybe, but is wearing a mask that much of a hardship? Really?

What about the people going through chemo or just finishing up with chemo? Is it also their fault that they have cancer?
What about asthmatics? Type one diabetics? Should they too quit eating rubbish and breathing poluted air and maybe they wouldn't be vulnerable? 
What about people who are just old? Do they deserve for us to wear a maks for them?

I mean, I resisted the mask thing for a long time, but even I came around, after seeing several people I know be completely symptom free and test positive, and remain symptom free. I'm going to wear the mask. It's not like they're asking the moon. It's just a mask. I can do that.

Of course that said, how wonderful an opportunity this could be for folks to take better care of themselves. And an excellent wake-up call that our lifestyles are indeed killing us. That conversation needs to happen too.


----------



## Jaf

ChaosCat said:


> Maybe you can use a shield?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intimates-Protection-Transparent-Shield-Adjustable/dp/B08BTJGC9J/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2CYW4CDCIHP2E&dchild=1&keywords=face+shield&qid=1594579105&sprefix=face+,aps,171&sr=8-2





kimthecat said:


> I have trouble understanding what people are saying to me when they wear a mask so shields are better.
> 
> Clear Mask are being made for nurses etc so that lip readers can understand them
> View attachment 444672


Some people wear those shields, but as well as a mask. It's not allowed to wear only the shield.

I think those masks with clear section are great! I'm also partially deaf so I end up standing too close accidentally because I just can't understand people.

Fortunately where I live I can park close to the shop door.


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> Ah but you could still be carrying it couldn't you and it's all about protecting others not ourselves. If they want us to wear them I do think that's a tired message. *When I'm in the supermarket next to someone who's unmasked and horribly obese with a trolley full of rubbish I'm afraid I don't feel they deserve to be protected.* I'm getting increasingly bored with being expected to go to efforts for others when they can't be bothered to do anything for themselves.


What horrible thing to say, some people are over weight because they are on medication (steroids for one, makes you put on a lot of weight) what ever you have in your trolley, and everyone's perfect.


----------



## havoc

What part of *chosen* lifestyle do people not understand. Those who choose to make themselves more likely to need hospital care if they catch it will take up resources much needed by those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own.


----------



## havoc

O2.0 said:


> What about the people going through chemo or just finishing up with chemo? Is it also their fault that they have cancer?
> What about asthmatics? Type one diabetics? Should they too quit eating rubbish and breathing poluted air and maybe they wouldn't be vulnerable?
> What about people who are just old? Do they deserve for us to wear a maks for them?


In this country these categories are shielding so haven't been in the supermarket. They aren't the people I'm talking about and everyone knows it.


----------



## StormyThai

Well apparently face masks will be mandatory as of Monday according to the news today.


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> What part of *chosen* lifestyle do people not understand. Those who choose to make themselves more likely to need hospital care if they catch it will take up resources much needed by those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own.


That's self righteous of you, without knowing anything about these people.


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> That's self righteous of you, without knowing anything about these people.


I know that one of the main indicators for severe disease from this virus is obesity. That's not my opinion - that's fact. Not only does it make it more likely, it makes the patient more difficult to treat. If you, or someone you care about were denied treatment because the grossly overweight woman in my supermarket with her trolley full of lager, crisps and biscuits was blocking a ventilator are you really telling me you'd be happy?


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> I know that one of the main indicators for severe disease from this virus is obesity. That's not my opinion - that's fact. Not only does it make it more likely, it makes the patient more difficult to treat. If you, or someone you care about were denied treatment because the grossly overweight woman in my supermarket with her trolley full of lager, crisps and biscuits was blocking a ventilator are you really telling me you'd be happy?


I could answer you but I might get banned


----------



## Pawscrossed

My shopping trolley contained biscuits, cake and chocolate last week. Most for friends or food donations. I also grow vegetables in my garden, about half a acre, not in my shopping trolley! Walk 5 miles daily. Sure, food choices are important, but a shopping trolley isn't representative of anyones diet. Weight shaming is hugely offensive. People can gain through steriods, health issues, disability, menopause, mental health, lots of reasons.


----------



## havoc

Pawscrossed said:


> Weight shaming is hugely offensive. People can gain through steriods, health issues, disability, menopause, mental health, lots of reasons.


Sadly this virus doesn't care about offending people.


----------



## Boxer123

This is good news about masks and face coverings if only to keep poor shop workers safe. 

With regards to obesity it has been said there is a clear link between the number of deaths we have had and the fact we are the most obese in Europe. 

We really need a whole culture shift . I don’t think many people want to be obese. Junk food can be terribly additive. I watched an interesting program about your brain response when you eat chocolate compared to a vegetable. 

We also work the longest hours in Europe so rely on quick convienence foods. I don’t think there is an easy fix. I do hope that this perhaps changes people’s lifestyle in many ways including work life balance.


----------



## rona

havoc said:


> I know that one of the main indicators for severe disease from this virus is obesity. That's not my opinion - that's fact. Not only does it make it more likely, it makes the patient more difficult to treat. If you, or someone you care about were denied treatment because the grossly overweight woman in my supermarket with her trolley full of lager, crisps and biscuits was blocking a ventilator are you really telling me you'd be happy?


While in theory I agree with you.
The issue is more complicated if you consider mental health.
I would probably be just like you and be disgusted (I thought long and hard about using that word) at seeing such a sight, but the truth is a lot of these people are deeply unhappy and incapable of helping themselves and we all know what dire straights the mental health service is in. It can't even support those with suicidal tendencies let alone those with esteem and eating issues.

Why do those with Bulimia etc get sympathy and those binge eaters scorn?

I sat in a little cottage on the beach last week and watched a family walk by, a man, two kids running about having fun, followed by a woman who was morbidly obese, obviously struggling on the shingle, but trying to join in. Until she couldn't.............. Now I felt sorry for her because I couldn't see the type or amount of food she was eating.
I've no idea why that makes a difference. Food types can be just as relevant to mental disorders as quantity of food.

Rambling......but makes sense to me


----------



## mrs phas

havoc said:


> Sadly this virus doesn't care about offending people.


But
As an, alleged, intelligent human being
You should
And you know what, if that person was on a ventilator, she'd be in need of it and, as the NHS didn't, in the end, run out of ventilators, despite people like you not caring or giving a flying crap about sheilding, masks or whatever, my relative or I would've been found one
People like you with your attitude are what made me end up in hospital, in my late teens, with an eating disorders


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> Sadly this virus doesn't care about offending people.


Nor do you by the sound of it.


----------



## O2.0

havoc said:


> What part of *chosen* lifestyle do people not understand. Those who choose to make themselves more likely to need hospital care if they catch it will take up resources much needed by those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own.





Boxer123 said:


> I don't think many people want to be obese.


What she said  
Nobody is choosing to be obese. No one would chose that for themselves if they could help it. Obesity is a complex, multifaceted issue. Yes, what you choose to eat and how much of it is part of it, but some of us can get away with a poor choice here and there and still not tip the scales while others struggle with every pound. 
Dog owners know this - I've had dogs, same age, same activity level, same household and one needs a ton of food to maintain weight while the other gets fat at the drop of a hat. Horses too. Some drop weight if you look at them wrong, some are 'easy keepers'. Why would humans be any different? 
I was listening to a weight loss surgeon once give a talk and one of the things he said which really stuck with me, because I too struggle to understand how someone can get as obese as some people get. He said that he could offer some of us a million dollar pay out to get over 500 pounds and even with that incentive, we couldn't do it. Our bodies just won't go there.

At the same time, I would love for this virus to become an opportunity for us as a nation (and you guys on the other side of the Atlantic) to start really talking about lifestyle diseases and what we can do realistically to improve things for everyone. Why are we subsidizing cheese and not broccoli, (why do we subsidize food at all?) If a McDonalds hamburger weren't subsizided I think the real cost would be around $6 but with subsidies it costs less than a dollar. These are things that can be addressed.

In the meantime, I don't know who will benefit from me wearing a mask. It might be the obese person with chips and sodas in their cart, or it might be the elderly person who doesn't have family living nearby to go to the store for them, and doesn't do the internet to do online shopping. And frankly, it's not for me to decide who deserves to be shielded from my potential germs or not. I'll wear the mask.


----------



## catz4m8z

havoc said:


> What part of *chosen* lifestyle do people not understand. Those who choose to make themselves more likely to need hospital care if they catch it will take up resources much needed by those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own.


Its rarely a choice to be unhealthy though. 
I can remember talking to an alcoholic patient when I was a baby nurse about stopping drinking (back when I was more judgemental and thought I knew everything!). His family had all been killed in a car crash and since then he had spiraled into depression, heavy drinking, lost his job and become homeless...he felt he had no reason to stop drinking. ok, so it was all his 'choice' to drink but I knew there was nothing I could say to make him stop drinking...or even give him any reason to.
And as others have said obesity isnt a simple issue.



havoc said:


> I know that one of the main indicators for severe disease from this virus is obesity. That's not my opinion - that's fact. Not only does it make it more likely, it makes the patient more difficult to treat. If you, or someone you care about were denied treatment because the grossly overweight woman in my supermarket with her trolley full of lager, crisps and biscuits was blocking a ventilator are you really telling me you'd be happy?


As somebody who is obese and struggles with their weight this attitude does make me sad. Ive tried everything including regular gym visits, walking up to 30, 000 steps a day, obviously eating healthy, cutting calories by up to a 1,000 a day and still I can never lose weight past a certain point. I dont choose to be unable to lose weight no matter how much effort I put in....I do however choose to be a frontline nhs worker looking after anybody who needs it regardless of their chosen lifestyles.
But feel free to judge me if I happen to have a packet of crisps in my shopping trolley...:Hungry


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> So fess up? Do you wear a mask?


No, and won't wear one till its compulsory. We've been told so much conflicting info I've chosen not to pay attention to any of it anymore.
I also hate how judgemental everyone has become.



O2.0 said:


> Why are we subsidizing cheese and not broccoli, (why do we subsidize food at all?) If a McDonalds hamburger weren't subsizided I think the real cost would be around $6 but with subsidies it costs less than a dollar. These are things that can be addressed.


I don't know much about any of that in the uk but we have a sugar tax on soft drinks now.
It hasn't made any difference for me in terms of buying it, I hate artificial sweetener so I just have to pay more now.

What we need is education on how to cook again and prove that is actually cheaper to cook healthy.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

havoc said:


> In this country these categories are shielding so haven't been in the supermarket. They aren't the people I'm talking about and everyone knows it.


Asthma ( unless very server) and diabetes are not conditions included on the shielded list, unless they have been fortunate enough to have family or friends to do all their shopping, most people with asthma or diabetes will have been visiting the supermarkets or other food suppliers.


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> I know that one of the main indicators for severe disease from this virus is obesity. That's not my opinion - that's fact. Not only does it make it more likely, it makes the patient more difficult to treat. If you, or someone you care about were denied treatment because the grossly overweight woman in my supermarket with her trolley full of lager, crisps and biscuits was blocking a ventilator are you really telling me you'd be happy?


I'm over weight as well. I take steroids and most likely I'll be on them for the rest of my life as I have kidney problems. I can't exercise very much as I've had two strokes and I'm unable to walk more than a few yards outside with out help, so I use a mobility scooter to go out so no exercise there then.

So if I have the odd Mars bar, Twill, Biscuits, Crisps or can of Coke and you'll be grudge any health care, Thanks.


----------



## mrs phas

mrs phas said:


> People like you with your attitude are what made me end up in hospital, in my late teens, with an eating disorders


Sorry to quote myself, but felt I should've added this

The main reason I am obese now is the severely skewed relationship I have with food because of that time in hospital. 40 years ago, it was force feeding and nasal tubes, with restraints if you tried to pull them out, it was all about eating everything put in front of you, so, I went from being anorexic to eating just to get out of there, then onto being bulemic, to make sure I ate in front of people. So they were happy, then throwing everything up in secret, so no weight would go on
I carried on like that until falling pregnant, with my eldest, once he'd finished breast feeding I went back to it in ntil 3 yrs later I fell pregnant again
In all that time my husband had no idea whatsoever, that, from 81 -91, even whilst on the Cambridge diet, I threw up everything
It was only because I had such bad pnd, after the twins, that I was forced to face it and him 
Now I'm obese, have bad teeth, thin hair (even before chemo) thinning bones etc, all the hallmarks of eating disorders
THATS
What fat shaming can do to people, I
was a healthy size 12 back in 78/79, since then I've been down to child sizes and up to a size 34, had those people minded their own businesses, who knows what I would've become, and where I would've been
Sod shame on me for having a crap relationship with food
Shame on you for having such a horrible and judgemental attitude

(Just to say with medication im now on, and the fact I'm nearly 60, I can go down to 800c a day and still only lose 1lb a week)


----------



## SusieRainbow

mrs phas said:


> Sorry to quote myself, but felt I should've added this
> 
> The main reason I am obese now is the severely skewed relationship I have with food because of that time in hospital. 40 years ago, it was force feeding and nasal tubes, with restraints if you tried to pull them out, it was all about eating everything put in front of you, so, I went from being anorexic to eating just to get out of there, then onto being bulemic, to make sure I ate in front of people. So they were happy, then throwing everything up in secret, so no weight would go on
> I carried on like that until falling pregnant, with my eldest, once he'd finished breast feeding I went back to it in ntil 3 yrs later I fell pregnant again
> In all that time my husband had no idea whatsoever, that, from 81 -91, even whilst on the Cambridge diet, I threw up everything
> It was only because I had such bad pnd, after the twins, that I was forced to face it and him
> Now I'm obese, have bad teeth, thin hair (even before chemo) thinning bones etc, all the hallmarks of eating disorders
> THATS
> What fat shaming can do to people, I
> was a healthy size 12 back in 78/79, since then I've been down to child sizes and up to a size 34, had those people minded their own businesses, who knows what I would've become, and where I would've been
> Sod shame on me for having a crap relationship with food
> Shame on you for having such a horrible and judgemental attitude
> 
> (Just to say with medication im now on, and the fact I'm nearly 60, I can go down to 800c a day and still only lose 1lb a week)


Liked for being brave enough to share your demons and get your point across.


----------



## Siskin

Over the past year I’ve discovered that my problem with being overweight is portion size. The anaemia, cancer and radiotherapy reduced my appetite a lot, I still ate but just smaller portions and the weight dropped off me. 
So my shopping basket may well contain things like chocolate, crisps and other ‘fattening’ foods, but will only be having a little at a time, am I to be condemned too?
Condemning someone you do not know or understand the circumstances of just because of their size and the contents of their shopping trolley is harsh. Yes the lady may open herself up to being seriously ill with coronavirus but she should be treated the same as any other patient in the same way as someone overdoing it at the gym (knowingly perhaps as they are trying to get fit quickly) and ending up at A&E.


----------



## catz4m8z

Arny said:


> I don't know much about any of that in the uk but we have a sugar tax on soft drinks now.


I think the US has an even worse relationship with food then the UK and alot of that is due to big business. Unhealthy foods are just so much cheaper then healthy options, fast food places are way more common then stores selling fresh groceries and people work such long hours there that its probably easier to cook processed foods at the end of the day. (at least thats how it comes across to me).



mrs phas said:


> (Just to say with medication im now on, and the fact I'm nearly 60, I can go down to 800c a day and still only lose 1lb a week)


wow, really sorry you had to go through that @mrs phas but you have given a very good example of how its not just an issue of 'eat less food, fatty!' for alot of people!!

One good thing about this pandemic though is that I think people have gotten back into their kitchens more are doing more cooking from scratch....well, they were. Now we are being told to get back in those fast food places and pubs!!LOL


----------



## Nonnie

I dont mind wearing a mask (i dont go into shops though, so i will rarely have to) but it would be nice if those in influential positions wore them, and wore them correctly.

I had to see my surgeon at the hospital on Wednesday. He had his pulled down under his nose, which renders them useless. Glad i had my proper one on, as i had to have a full examination.

I also dont like people just wearing face shields. The are an add on, not an alternative. 

Obviously *some* people are exempt from face masks. I am, but id rather wear one tbh.


----------



## Arny

catz4m8z said:


> I think the US has an even worse relationship with food then the UK and alot of that is due to big business. Unhealthy foods are just so much cheaper then healthy options, fast food places are way more common then stores selling fresh groceries and people work such long hours there that its probably easier to cook processed foods at the end of the day. (at least thats how it comes across to me).


I did live there for a few years but was only a child so wasn't paying much attention to it.
It was for my dads work and the company sent someone to the house to prepare us for the culture change. 
The only thing I remember was him saying "you will put on weight".
In fact when we went over to look for a house the company paid for us to eat out every night, half way through the first week we asked if we could use the allowance on the cinema instead as we just couldn't eat anymore!


----------



## HarlequinCat

I think the virus has given some people the motivation to have better lifestyles.

My OH is 6ft and at one point weighed 22st. I really wanted him to lose weight because he was starting to have a few health problems, but I didn't nag him as its his own choice. For one he had a reduced lung capacity because of the fat putting pressure on his organs. Also a bad back, which meant he couldn't walk far because of the pain. He even said himself he should lose weight but he enjoyed food too much. I know he would eat more when he was stressed, and that was quite often. 

From the beginning of this he could see being overweight made you more at risk and since the end of march he has been eating better and exercising. So far he is so close to losing 3 st, which is amazing. He can already feel the difference. We go for 3 mile walks now, he uses the exercise bike. His lung capacity has improved too. He always wears masks going anywhere.

On the other hand his mum is diabetic and overweight, she has tried a few diets but gives up on them when she doesn't lose weight quick enough. She doesn't want to give up food she enjoys, which is understandable as she does eat healthy, but I think she eats more calories than she realises. She thinks she's healthy enough and that the virus won't affect her so much. But this worries my OH and he's been trying to gently encourage her. He have to remind her to wear masks and distance from others too.

You see overweight people and it is easy to think they aren't taking it serious bit you don't know if they have started taking action because you don't know if they were bigger. Or no matter what they've tried they can't shift the weight. 

Some people are quite fatalistic too and have a sort of what will be will be attitude so don't wear masks etc


----------



## catz4m8z

Nonnie said:


> I had to see my surgeon at the hospital on Wednesday. He had his pulled down under his nose, which renders them useless.


The ones we have at the moment at super annoying. Either they slide up and rub across your eyeball or you yawn or open your mouth too wide and they slip under your nose! (gloves too have gotten weird....our latest lot are either tissue paper thin or thick enough to be classed as Marigolds!).
PPE is a very mixed bag in hospitals at the moment!LOL


----------



## Elles

Will you guys go shopping, fill your trolley with crap and not wear a mask though? 

I don’t see the problem with wearing a mask in the shop myself. I expect it’s very rare that someone can’t and that the majority who can’t wear any mask due to health issues would be on the vulnerable list. I’m willing to forgive the odd person who doesn’t and as those who are morbidly obese with trolleys full of crap are quite likely to be in the group who can’t wear masks, I’ll save my issues for healthy people who think as the disease is unlikely to cause them personally a problem and don’t give a damn about anyone else. 

They’re the ones who are young, fit and healthy, with trolleys full of healthy options and organic choices, but not mask wearing. . Scum of the earth.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Me and OH wear masks going in shops when we have to, I feel fairly silly because we are often the only ones! But we'll keep doing it. 
I've booked an appointment at the hairdressers, my last one was October and my hair becomes a mess of knots, but i keep wanting to cancel incase I pass the virus to OH or his mum.

OH parents are a bit hopeless. They don't distance from others and his mum won't wear masks because they steam up her glasses . We got some medical tape to put over the top for her but she hasn't used it yet.
She always fobs us off saying "I take all necessary precautions" and we know she isn't.

Hopefully mandatory masks will help!


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> I think the US has an even worse relationship with food then the UK and alot of that is due to big business. Unhealthy foods are just so much cheaper then healthy options, fast food places are way more common then stores selling fresh groceries and people work such long hours there that its probably easier to cook processed foods at the end of the day. (at least thats how it comes across to me)


I'd have to agree with that one. I did Orlando a few years back with friends, and everything about the US relationship with food was an eye-opener - safe to say I encountered nothing that would disabuse me from my preconceived notions of why the US has such an obesity issue.

We were in an AirBnB, so self catering. That meant trips to the nearby Walmart for food. That was an experience and a half! The place was MASSIVE, and much of what you could buy was equally massive - especially the unhealthy stuff. I think the smallest pizza I saw was about 16 inches. I actually bought a 48oz bag of Skittles to bring home just to prove they exist and most sweets (or 'candy' as they call it) came in bags that size. I ended up with Rice Krispies for my breakfast cereal as they were literally the ONLY thing in the whole 100ft long double aisle to NOT be loaded with sugar, chocolate, day-glo colours or added marskmallows or candy. Couldn't even get basic Corn Flakes - but you could get bags of crisps (OK, chips  ) that would double as a life raft in an emergency.

There appeared to be no halfway house on anything, and unhealthy was also usually way cheaper than healthy options. We wanted orange juice, but ended up without any as the only options were individual kiddy lunchbox size bottles (not even big enough to bother carting around a theme park) that were hideously expensive, or massive 6 pint plastic jugs. The only things to offer all sizes were the sugar and additive laden 'juice drink' options (like Sunny D), So you either had to buy big, buy expensive, or buy junk...

We never did find a fresh fruit and veg aisle. And yes, we were looking - we had a veggie in our group. They had an interesting week at the theme parks, as veggie offerings were pretty limited - even most of the salads had meat in them.

And it's not just the main shops. Some of us went to a chemist/health store to pick up necessary medicines for one of our party. By the tills there was a massive - and I mean massive - stack of boxes of 12 Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Yes, we bought one to share with the rest of the party.

As for eating out - well, we didn't have to worry about theme park food prices, as although they were (obviously) steep, the portion sizes were so massive we would happily have breakfast, then have one meal at the park and not be hungry again for the rest of the day. Or have two meals, but only order for half the group and share. We did go out to an Italian restaurant one night, and I swear the carbonara I ordered came in a bowl the size of a large UK dinner plate! Yes, I finished it (pretty sure no-one else finished their meal), but I didn't eat again for the best part of a day!

On the plus side we were getting a lot of exercise every day too, but it wasn't hard to figure out that if this even partly typical of the average US relationship with food (and food companies), then it's not surprising excessive weight is a national health problem....


----------



## MollySmith

havoc said:


> What part of *chosen* lifestyle do people not understand. Those who choose to make themselves more likely to need hospital care if they catch it will take up resources much needed by those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own.


@havoc I am trying to see your views, but having been the overweight woman in the supermarket who gained weight through steroids, infertility treatment and PTSD, that I made it through the doors to shove anything in a trolley was a miracle at some points in my life. Had anyone judged me I probably would have hit them. I find it hard to read though I do sort of understand your frustration. I think. Like smokers outsid3 hospitals?

I've been called a fat slag to my face by strangers when I was a dress size 18 and being 5, 7". I can't imagine what others have been subjected too. Sometimes I would rally back but often I'd come home and cry. I'm no longer obese and changed my life, but it took many years of counselling to understand why, but even now I have a low worth so it's still work in progress. In my experiences of obesity it's something much deeper or it's health related. One can argue lots of social situations too - lack of education, advertising, food labels, economy. That can easily lead to no choice.

I am sure the pandemic has give many a wake up call. But it's also made many people live in times of fear, perhaps in places where they are unsafe, have limited funds for food and feeling very low. We live in terribly painful times and there is enough evidence to show perfectly healthy people die too.

You say the virus doesn't care about offending people, no it doesn't. Many very healthy people have been struck down. Three friends got it, the one who worked out down the gym died. The person I least thought would, so t seems completely arbitrary in who it claims. Strikes me that this news about weight can be very easily used to start shaming with scant concern for mental health. I've long given up on judging others during this crisis unless they are in government and should know better.

Hope everyone is okay, I've seen some brave posts on here today.

Oh and wearing a mask. Not pleasant as I have dyspraxia but I think it a minor thing to do and hope it helps.


----------



## catz4m8z

Elles said:


> Will you guys go shopping, fill your trolley with crap and not wear a mask though?


idk TBH. They tell us there is a 'safe' distance to stand away from somebody which I keep to in the shops but not that masks are mandatory yet.
so eh......:Bored


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> They're the ones who are young, fit and healthy, with trolleys full of healthy options and organic choices, but not mask wearing. . Scum of the earth.


 That lean in and over because they're too thin to be spotted. At least us curvy types can be seen! ....


----------



## Jaf

I really think that the cheap, disposable masks are pretty useless. Today I was wearing a mask when a smoker lit up, the smell got straight in. Smells are enormous compared to viruses! 

I’m very glad I’m not living in a town, it must be very worrying, I’ve been watching the news with people having to use crowded public transport.


----------



## catz4m8z

Jaf said:


> I really think that the cheap, disposable masks are pretty useless. Today I was wearing a mask when a smoker lit up, the smell got straight in. Smells are enormous compared to viruses!
> 
> I'm very glad I'm not living in a town, it must be very worrying, I've been watching the news with people having to use crowded public transport.


But they are effective againest droplets which is all you are trying to do....stop yourself coughing or spitting covid juice all over everyone!
I suppose if we all wore one all the time then infection rates would drop right down.


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> despite people like you not caring or giving a flying crap about sheilding, masks or whatever,


I'm absolutely positive that this is not what Havoc meant. You only have to look back over postings.
I think the whole point of the post was about others not caring


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> Asthma ( unless very server) and diabetes are not conditions included on the shielded list, unless they have been fortunate enough to have family or friends to do all their shopping, most people with asthma or diabetes will have been visiting the supermarkets or other food suppliers.


I don't consider my asthma to be severe - never been hospitalised - but I have been told to shield.


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> I think the whole point of the post was about others not caring


again I think alot of the problem is down to the governments wishy washy non approach to telling us what to do. It might be that people do care...they just arent sure exactly what they should be doing about it!
(maybe they are holding off on compulsory masks now because they think they will have to do it in the winter with a second big spike!?:Nailbiting)


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> I don't consider my asthma to be severe - never been hospitalised - but I have been told to shield.


 Presumably your GP must have felt your asthma was such that it met the criteria for you to be included amongst those that must be shielded. Everyone with asthma however were not asked to shield.


----------



## Boxer123

3dogs2cats said:


> Presumably your GP must have felt your asthma was such that it met the criteria for you to be included amongst those that must be shielded. Everyone with asthma however were not asked to shield.


I'm asthmatic and not shielding.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> again I think alot of the problem is down to the governments wishy washy non approach to telling us what to do. It might be that people do care...they just arent sure exactly what they should be doing about it!
> (maybe they are holding off on compulsory masks now because they think they will have to do it in the winter with a second big spike!?:Nailbiting)


I think the government have tried to get people to take responsibility for themselves and their own safety. Treated people like thinking adults who could make decision about their own safety and that of others. Unfortunately, many are not thinking adults.........................


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I think the government have tried to get people to take responsibility for themselves and their own safety. Treated people like thinking adults who could make decision about their own safety and that of others. Unfortunately, many are not thinking adults.........................


I think it's also the policing issue. It would need to be monitored, it could cause trouble between people and shop workers etc.

They are really hoping we do the right thing I guess.


----------



## havoc

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm over weight as well. I take steroids and most likely I'll be on them for the rest of my life as I have kidney problems.


Which means it isn't a chosen lifestyle issue for you so why get so defensive. You're the very group I think need extra consideration and protection. It's pretty obvious Boris got the fright of his life when he got the virus and was moved to intensive care and it's pretty obvious he had his eyes opened. The govt is now considering all sorts of things to curb the obesity epidemic. The very fact that we've reached the point in society where we mustn't mention it, call it fat shaming, have doctors hauled in front of the BMA for pointing out to a patient that they could do with losing weight is putting people at increased risk from this virus. It isn't going to go away. I wish it were, of course I do but it isn't. It's all very well being sensitive of people's feelings but if doing so means they die how is that doing them a favour? It wasn't an issue the same before the virus hit, it very much is now.


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> Which means it isn't a chosen lifestyle issue for you so why get so defensive. You're the very group I think need extra consideration and protection. It's pretty obvious Boris got the fright of his life when he got the virus and was moved to intensive care and it's pretty obvious he had his eyes opened. The govt is now considering all sorts of things to curb the obesity epidemic. The very fact that we've reached the point in society where we mustn't mention it, call it fat shaming, have doctors hauled in front of the BMA for pointing out to a patient that they could do with losing weight is putting people at increased risk from this virus. It isn't going to go away. I wish it were, of course I do but it isn't. It's all very well being sensitive of no feelings but if doing so means they die how is that doing them a favour? It wasn't an issue the same before the virus hit, it very much is now.


I went to see a GP about 2 years ago now as I had been experiencing back pain over the past year. When he heard why I had come to see him he took one look at me (overweight) and decided that was why I had back pain and proceeded to lecture me as to why it was all my fault and I would be pain free if I lost weight. He refused to listen to my story and wouldn't examine me, he just made a decision within 20 seconds of my visit. I was so upset I sat in the car park and cried.
His uncaring attitude was the reason why when I started to suffer from breathlessness and lethargy last year and a lump appearing in my thigh I didn't immediately go to the doctors as I felt I would be lectured once again and symptoms ignored. When I did eventually go towards the end of January the doctor I saw took me seriously and after a number of tests it was found that I was severely anaemic and had a sarcoma in the thigh. Luckily it was all taken very seriously and I have been successfully treated. The doctor that I first saw about my back two years ago might well be interested to know that despite losing 4 stone I still have the back pain.

So yes I do think how overweight patients are treated by doctors needs to be looked in to. Furiously lecturing someone and telling them it's all their fault is highly likely to drive the patient away and they are less likely to come back when there is another issue unrelated to weight


----------



## O2.0

Arny said:


> I also hate how judgemental everyone has become.


Couldn't agree more. 
If you wear a mask you're a 'sheeple' living in fear, if you don't wear a mask you're personally responsible for people dying. 
I'm trying really hard not to judge people's choices to wear or not wear a mask as you never know someone's story. In the same way I don't judge someone who's obese, though if it's someone Iove I can for sure feel frustration and worry about their health, same as I would with a loved one drinking too much or practicing other unsafe behavior.



Jesthar said:


> That meant trips to the nearby Walmart for food. That was an experience and a half!


Oh lol you did the Walmart thing?! I don't even go to Walmart if I can absolutely avoid it, and for sure you never buy food there! Although some Walmarts do have a produce section, not all do, but their produce is usually gross anyway.

I do buy non perishable foods in bulk when I can (not from Walmart) because in my mind it's better environmentally. One giant box of laundry powder that lasts me a year is one box of packaging and one trip to the store vs. multiple packages and multiple trips. If I can buy 5 pounds of rice (or even 20), again, less packaging, less travel time etc.

But yeah the supersize mentality and bigger is better is insane here. It's so steriotypically American, but sadly also true.


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> I went to see a GP about 2 years ago now as I had been experiencing back pain over the past year. When he heard why I had come to see him he took one look at me (overweight) and decided that was why I had back pain and proceeded to lecture me as to why it was all my fault and I would be pain free if I lost weight. He refused to listen to my story and wouldn't examine me, he just made a decision within 20 seconds of my visit. I was so upset I sat in the car park and cried.
> His uncaring attitude was the reason why when I started to suffer from breathlessness and lethargy last year and a lump appearing in my thigh I didn't immediately go to the doctors as I felt I would be lectured once again and symptoms ignored. When I did eventually go towards the end of January the doctor I saw took me seriously and after a number of tests it was found that I was severely anaemic and had a sarcoma in the thigh. Luckily it was all taken very seriously and I have been successfully treated. The doctor that I first saw about my back two years ago might well be interested to know that despite losing 4 stone I still have the back pain.
> 
> So yes I do think how overweight patients are treated by doctors needs to be looked in to. Furiously lecturing someone and telling them it's all their fault is highly likely to drive the patient away and they are less likely to come back when there is another issue unrelated to weight


I am really sorry to hear about that doctor, thank goodness that second doctor took you seriously.

******

It's not just overweight people doctors can treat badly, I am (slightly) underweight, and have been treated terribly by GPs, nurses and various professionals in the mental health sector, they generally automatically assume I have an eating disorder and that I'm lying about how much I eat, thus whatever my problem is is my fault or/and I don't deserve to be treated etc.

Thankfully I've also had really good people in all the above sections of the NHS and the reason why i struggle to gain weight has been found (I'm so anxious all the time it just burns off the calories), but it doesn't stop the know-it-alls from being nasty.


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> I think the government have tried to get people to take responsibility for themselves and their own safety. Treated people like thinking adults who could make decision about their own safety and that of others. Unfortunately, many are not thinking adults.........................


I think individually we are responsible, thinking adults....but as a group?? sheep at best and a mob at worst. Im totally including myself in this mentality because thats just how society works. We need rules if we want us all to go left rather then right!



havoc said:


> The very fact that we've reached the point in society where we mustn't mention it, call it fat shaming, have doctors hauled in front of the BMA for pointing out to a patient that they could do with losing weight is putting people at increased risk from this virus. It isn't going to go away. I wish it were, of course I do but it isn't. It's all very well being sensitive of people's feelings but if doing so means they die how is that doing them a favour?





Siskin said:


> So yes I do think how overweight patients are treated by doctors needs to be looked in to. Furiously lecturing someone and telling them it's all their fault is highly likely to drive the patient away and they are less likely to come back when there is another issue unrelated to weight


It always annoyed me that whenever I went to my Dr he never mentioned at all about me being obese! I have no problem telling people they are fat or owning up to fatness myself!:Shy You have to talk about coz it may be as simple as somebody not realiesing how many calories are in a particular food....but I do mean talk, not judge or persecute.


----------



## Happy Paws2

havoc said:


> Which means it isn't a chosen lifestyle issue for you so why get so defensive. You're the very group I think need extra consideration and protection.


Because you have made me think, how many people may see me in the same light not knowing that I have health problems.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> If you wear a mask you're a 'sheeple' living in fear, if you don't wear a mask you're personally responsible for people dying.
> I'm trying really hard not to judge people's choices to wear or not wear a mask as you never know someone's story. In the same way I don't judge someone who's obese, though if it's someone Iove I can for sure feel frustration and worry about their health, same as I would with a loved one drinking too much or practicing other unsafe behavior.
> 
> Oh lol you did the Walmart thing?! I don't even go to Walmart if I can absolutely avoid it, and for sure you never buy food there! Although some Walmarts do have a produce section, not all do, but their produce is usually gross anyway.
> 
> I do buy non perishable foods in bulk when I can (not from Walmart) because in my mind it's better environmentally. One giant box of laundry powder that lasts me a year is one box of packaging and one trip to the store vs. multiple packages and multiple trips. If I can buy 5 pounds of rice (or even 20), again, less packaging, less travel time etc.
> 
> But yeah the supersize mentality and bigger is better is insane here. It's so steriotypically American, but sadly also true.


It's the same as pretty much everything today. We can't win. We can't do right for doing wrong. It doesn't matter what you do. Keep quiet. Speak up. Stay at home. Go out. Wear a mask. Don't wear a mask. Take nurofen. Don't take nurofen. :Hilarious

Confused? You should be.

About the only thing they do agree on is Soap.


----------



## Jesthar

Jaf said:


> I really think that the cheap, disposable masks are pretty useless. Today I was wearing a mask when a smoker lit up, the smell got straight in. Smells are enormous compared to viruses!
> 
> I'm very glad I'm not living in a town, it must be very worrying, I've been watching the news with people having to use crowded public transport.


The kind of masks worn by the public aren't about protecting the wearer, they never have been. They are about restricting any germs the wearer might have from reaching others.



O2.0 said:


> Oh lol you did the Walmart thing?! I don't even go to Walmart if I can absolutely avoid it, and for sure you never buy food there! Although some Walmarts do have a produce section, not all do, but their produce is usually gross anyway.
> 
> I do buy non perishable foods in bulk when I can (not from Walmart) because in my mind it's better environmentally. One giant box of laundry powder that lasts me a year is one box of packaging and one trip to the store vs. multiple packages and multiple trips. If I can buy 5 pounds of rice (or even 20), again, less packaging, less travel time etc.
> 
> But yeah the supersize mentality and bigger is better is insane here. It's so steriotypically American, but sadly also true.


Heh, yes we did. We didn't really have any other options we knew about! It was only for 10 days, so we survived


----------



## O2.0

Not gonna lie. Walmart scares me a little. There's some sketchy people about and they all seem to congregate in Walmart.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> About the only thing they do agree on is Soap.


I'm sure there's some way to fight over soap. Liquid or bar? Scented, unscented? Bacterial, non bacterial.... 
Give it time, we'll hoard soap and fight over it 

That's me, always being positive


----------



## mrs phas

O2.0 said:


> I'm sure there's some way to fight over soap. Liquid or bar? Scented, unscented? Bacterial, non bacterial....
> Give it time, we'll hoard soap and fight over it
> 
> That's me, always being positive


you missed the reference
maybe your slightly ( maybe a lot, i dont know) too young for the reference
@Elles i used to love it and now have an earworm of the theme :Hilarious


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> you missed the reference
> maybe your slightly ( maybe a lot, i dont know) too young for the reference
> @Elles i used to love it and now have an earworm of the theme :Hilarious


hehe yeah, though I did slightly misquote it. 

I'm surprised it hasn't been banned yet.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> I'm sure there's some way to fight over soap. Liquid or bar? Scented, unscented? Bacterial, non bacterial....
> Give it time, we'll hoard soap and fight over it
> 
> That's me, always being positive


True that. :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> you missed the reference
> maybe your slightly ( maybe a lot, i dont know) too young for the reference
> @Elles i used to love it and now have an earworm of the theme :Hilarious


If it's TV I probably don't know it. Not much of a TV watcher. 
But yes, obviously I'm missing something.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> If it's TV I probably don't know it. Not much of a TV watcher.
> But yes, obviously I'm missing something.


American sitcom that was massive in the 70s/80s. If the Golden Girls can get on the hit list, Soap should be at number 1. :Bag


----------



## catz4m8z

ok....so masks compulsory in shops from 24th! Good to know.

Now where is the best place to buy one?? (I dont want to order something that will arrive 3mths from now!).


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> ok....so masks compulsory in shops from 24th! Good to know.
> 
> Now where is the best place to buy one?? (I dont want to order something that will arrive 3mths from now!).


My branch of Tesco's is selling them


----------



## Jobeth

catz4m8z said:


> ok....so masks compulsory in shops from 24th! Good to know.
> 
> Now where is the best place to buy one?? (I dont want to order something that will arrive 3mths from now!).


https://www.medicalfacemask.co.uk/
I also bought some hand sanitiser and they arrived in a couple of days. They are also cheaper than the ones Tesco sell.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> My branch of Tesco's is selling them


Just googled 'mask' for all the big stores in my high street to see who might be selling them....didnt quite get the results I was hoping for.
But I am now imagining rocking up at Tesco with my face slathered in a dead sea mud mask ...'what do you mean it isnt a face mask!!?, it says so on the packet!!!'
:Hilarious


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> ok....so masks compulsory in shops from 24th! Good to know.
> 
> Now where is the best place to buy one?? (I dont want to order something that will arrive 3mths from now!).


Hurry up deciding - they'll be like gold dust now 

I'll be getting my sewing machine out and making my own (though I'm still avoiding going anywhere where one's required tbh).


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Hurry up deciding - they'll be like gold dust now
> 
> I'll be getting my sewing machine out and making my own (though I'm still avoiding going anywhere where one's required tbh).


Me too so far, but I've made a couple for others.


----------



## StormyThai

Lurcherlad said:


> Hurry up deciding - they'll be like gold dust now
> 
> I'll be getting my sewing machine out and making my own (though I'm still avoiding going anywhere where one's required tbh).


Most places are putting a limit on how many people can buy...how long that works is anybodies guess.

The amount of moaning that I have heard today though is ridiculous IMO
It does take a bit of getting used to, but after a while it is just something we have to do.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Hurry up deciding - they'll be like gold dust now
> 
> I'll be getting my sewing machine out and making my own (though I'm still avoiding going anywhere where one's required tbh).


Due to moving all my sewing machines are packed octor


----------



## Cully

Jobeth said:


> https://www.medicalfacemask.co.uk/
> I also bought some hand sanitiser and they arrived in a couple of days. They are also cheaper than the ones Tesco sell.


I've just ordered some of these but from Amazon £2.98 pack of 10. I have an aversion to buying from sites I've never heard of so checked they are the same masks as on your link, but bought at Amazon.
I imagine most mask hunting customers are frustrated with Amazon reviews being hijacked by people pushing certain other websites to buy them from.Drove me mad and almost gave up until I remembered I really do need to get some.


----------



## SusieRainbow

mrs phas said:


> Due to moving all my sewing machines are packed octor


There are several patterns for hand-sewn ones on t'internet. Also Etsy have loads of handmade ones in lovely fabrics.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/812...r-reusable?ref=search_recently_viewed-4&frs=1
.


----------



## Jesthar

Can you just use a neck scarf as a face covering? If so, I know what I'm doing...


----------



## StormyThai

Jesthar said:


> Can you just use a neck scarf as a face covering? If so, I know what I'm doing...


Yes so long as your nose and mouth are covered


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> There are several patterns for hand-sewn ones on t'internet. Also Etsy have loads of handmade ones in lovely fabrics.
> https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/812...r-reusable?ref=search_recently_viewed-4&frs=1
> .


They are rather nice. Just ordered two


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Jesthar said:


> Can you just use a neck scarf as a face covering? If so, I know what I'm doing...


Yes you can, I use a scarf and will continue to do so.


----------



## Arny

Jesthar said:


> Can you just use a neck scarf as a face covering? If so, I know what I'm doing...


Yes. That's what I'm going to do too.
Not that I've been to a shop since April as they only allow one from each household and I'm not a driver.

They've weighed everything up and decided that more people will feel safe to go out and spend money if everyone is wearing a mask. After all you'd be far more risk to people sat in a pub than fleeting interactions in a shop.


----------



## Arny

In Wales the covering will have be 3 layers thick (I doubt they'll be inspecting you). 
Not sure if that's just on public transport though.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Can you just use a neck scarf as a face covering? If so, I know what I'm doing...


Assume so. I have a couple of Hygge headbands that would probably work too.


----------



## catz4m8z

I only have wooly winter scarves.....might be hard to pull that off in July.


----------



## O2.0

If you wear buffs (runner buffs), those work well too and many find them easier to breathe through.


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> If you wear buffs (runner buffs), those work well too and many find them easier to breathe through.


Ok, what are Buffs?


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> Ok, what are Buffs?


I didn't know either until I goggled it.
Hundreds for sale on Amazon


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Ok, what are Buffs?


Thin tubular pieces of material that go round your neck mainly. Can be pulled up to various shapes over the face and head.

The Hygge Headbands I have are a similar concept.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Ok, what are Buffs?


It's not like "in the buff" if that's what you are thinking


----------



## Nonnie

I live in these https://hyggebands.com/ (combination of hyperhydrosis and alopecia)

They are always doing a 5 for the price of one deal. I have about 30 - dont think ive ever paid full price.


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> Thin tubular pieces of material that go round your neck mainly. Can be pulled up to various shapes over the face and head.
> 
> The Hygge Headbands I have are a similar concept.


Ways of wearing:


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> I live in these https://hyggebands.com/ (combination of hyperhydrosis and alopecia)
> 
> They are always doing a 5 for the price of one deal. I have about 30 - dont think ive ever paid full price.


I'm not sure they ever sell them at "full" price


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> I'm not sure they ever sell them at "full" price


Just checked - they are currently buy one get three free.

I like the double sided ones, but they arent often included in the offers.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Just checked - they are currently buy one get three free.
> 
> I like the double sided ones, but they arent often included in the offers.


Yeah, they are nice. I get so carried away when I'm choosing patterns, I really have to rein myself in!


----------



## O2.0

I don't think I've paid for any of my buffs. Two were gifts, and the rest are race freebies. Well, I guess I pay with entry fees. 
They make all different weights and materials. I currently have three that are super light weight for summer running, good to put on your head and keep sweat from running down in to your eyes, or on your wrist to wipe sweat away. But the lightweight ones would also work great as a mask/face covering this time of year too. 
They fit tighter than a mask but are easier to breathe through. Added bonus they don't fog up glasses either because of the tighter fit.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Just checked - they are currently buy one get three free.


It reminds me of the saying - "Unlucky is the man who pays full price for a sofa from DFS"


----------



## Cully

Buffs are more attractive than ordinary face masks, but by the fact that they are easier to breathe through, are they really any use at preventing spreading/catching a virus?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> Buffs are more attractive than ordinary face masks, but by the fact that they are easier to breathe through, are they really any use at preventing spreading/catching a virus?


I think for them to be really effective you would need a flter underneath. Without they would be pretty useless but would fulfll the request for mandatory face covering.


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> Buffs are more attractive than ordinary face masks, but by the fact that they are easier to breathe through, are they really any use at preventing spreading/catching a virus?


I don't think anything other than an N95 mask is effective at preventing catching the virus.

Spreading the virus... well, that depends on what data you're looking at I guess.

I'm 100% for science, I'm not disputing 'science' when I say this, but the reality is, we still don't know a whole lot about how the virus spreads. We *do* know it is present in respiratory droplets and it is behaving very much like an airborne virus. However, that doesn't mean we undestand everything about how it spreads. 
A friend of mine was slaughtering and dressing pigs (he raises his own) with another friend. This is hard work and they were in each other's faces breathing hard all day. Not wearing masks or coverings of any kind. Though yes, they were outside. 
The next day the other guy isn't feeling so hot, gets sick and turns out he's positive for covid-19. My friend quarantined himself and his family for 14 days. None of them got sick. 
Now that the numbers are increasing here, we're hearing more and more stories of family members testing positive and people living in the same household have no symptoms, test negative etc.

So really, we don't know if masks help or not. I don't believe they hurt though. 
If all me wearing a mask/face covering doe is make someone else feel better, I'm okay with that.


----------



## westie~ma

We have masks they are the snood type, Virustatic (sp?)

Its a pain though and need to get myself something easier. My sunglasses (essential with my allergies) and the snood I look like the invisible man. Swapping with my reading glasses it moves. Easier just to not go shopping!

Allowed to travel further than 5 miles so in the flat until tonight, yesterday I ventured into Kingston Upon Thames, not been in M&S or any big shops since March I loved it and in the shops was fine but stepping out into the main street, it was like normal times :Wideyed:Wideyed:Wideyed

I'd gone into the shop the back way which was dead quiet so it freaked me out a bit. Coming from Wales to that amount of people unnerved me, got my bearings and headed off on a quiet route. Today I'm staying in.


----------



## Jaf

Southern Spain. I was in a cafe today, there were 8 men standing by the bar, absolutely no social distancing. No masks as they were drinking or eating. I didn’t have a mask either of course. I sat outside, but I won’t be going back. I’ll have to find somewhere safer to wait (took friend to drs, was waiting to collect her).

Got to be much more likely to catch a virus there than walking past someone on the street. Though from midnight tonight it’s law to wear a mask on the street. I don’t know how it’s going to help.


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> I think for them to be really effective you would need a flter underneath. Without they would be pretty useless but would fulfll the request for mandatory face covering.


Yes I've been looking at some (100's) on Amazon and have seen that some have a little slot for a filter to slide into. So difficult to tell which are any good though. The filters must be only good enough for keeping out dust, and I don't expect they would any way match what's required as a virus filter.
I'm very tempted to try one though, maybe with folded kitchen roll used as a filter(??). It would be nice to wear something pretty again instead of just practical, sigh!


----------



## Dave S




----------



## Lurcherlad

Better late than never I say.


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> View attachment 444814


I saw that on my FB too


----------



## lullabydream

I like this Etsy site for masks

https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/sarahsprettie?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=798370286
Masks for all family members and no boring designs!


----------



## Jesthar

Just when you think this couldn't get more bizarre, apparently we have finally discovered what heinous act of goverment it takes to get people to leave the tory party these days.

Yup, mandatory face coverings when shopping...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rship-cards-mandatory-face-mask-a9617866.html


----------



## O2.0

I saw a shared post on FB comparing the government asking people to wear masks in public to the Nazis making Jews wear stars. 
There really needs to be a WTF reaction emoji on FB. Or facepalm, I'll settle for a facepalm.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Just when you think this couldn't get more bizarre, apparently we have finally discovered what heinous act of goverment it takes to get people to leave the tory party these days.
> 
> Yup, mandatory face coverings when shopping...
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rship-cards-mandatory-face-mask-a9617866.html





O2.0 said:


> I saw a shared post on FB comparing the government asking people to wear masks in public to the Nazis making Jews wear stars.
> There really needs to be a WTF reaction emoji on FB. Or facepalm, I'll settle for a facepalm.


No doubt they'll feel differently when they're on a ventilator fighting for their life!


----------



## Lurcherlad

I can’t understand the attitude of the people upset about having to wear a mask in enclosed spaces now.

Since Lockdown has eased there are considerably more people about and at least now the naysayers who actually “don’t believe in Covid” (some bloke stated that on tv yesterday ) can’t cough all over the innocent bystanders in their vicinity!


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> there are clear rules


 There are (allegedly), but no-one enforces them and bus drivers allow them to board the bus regardless. I had to get a bus yesterday; one person uncovered their mouth to bellow down their phone and another removed it to slurp a cup of coffee. And so many don't have their noses covered.


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> even he government doesnt seem sure either


True: the ''new normal'' is quite confusing I think. There are notices saying ''work from home where possible and save lives'', then the next day you see a picture of BJ saying ''Get back to the office and save the economy''.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I can't understand the attitude of the people upset about having to wear a mask in enclosed spaces now.
> 
> Since Lockdown has eased there are considerably more people about and at least now the naysayers who actually "don't believe in Covid" (some bloke stated that on tv yesterday ) can't cough all over the innocent bystanders in their vicinity!


Wearing masks has been mandatory in Hungary since 27th April and for the most part people have complied with no problem. I think it also helped that free masks and hand sanitiser was handed out to everyone by the local Mayors. We also had a very strict lockdown which over the past month is gradually being relaxed, but we have been warned if the infection rate begins to climb again lock down will be enforced again.

Unlike the UK and the US we're kept informed daily by the government on the TV, radio, or social media and the message has never varied.

This is today's bulletin taken from FB

https://minap.hu/cikk/koronavirus-t...sCA4EiRMgpdhBUuqensmrA3V5ghfumPdXiXgxh4f306iQ









*CORONAVIRUS: FURTHER REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF ACTIVE INFECTIONS*


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I saw a shared post on FB comparing the government asking people to wear masks in public to the Nazis making Jews wear stars.
> There really needs to be a WTF reaction emoji on FB. Or facepalm, I'll settle for a facepalm.


Just seen this! Idiots!

https://www.newsweek.com/kentucky-b..._RnIwV_dyCTgsu64h2GnXYmF3fiibIA1W-Vw8rcaDT56g

*Kentucky Bar Defies Mask Order: 'We Are Americans-We're Going to Do What We Want'*


----------



## Gemmaa

:Bag
https://youdontneedamask.com/


----------



## MollySmith

Like all things in the pandemic, I have been ignoring Johnson and his cronies. We locked down two weeks before they said so and I’ve been wearing a mask for any essential visits for two months now, maybe 3. I don’t like it but if there is any possibility it might reduce an infection or spread by the smallest amount, I’m wearing one, if I need to go out at all.


----------



## Arny

I'll wear one, since we have to, but I'm under no illusions that its now become mandatory to prevent the spread of the virus.
If that's the case they would have done it when the infection rate was much higher.
I think people's defiance is possibly because we were told time and time again at the height of this that masks will not help, in fact make things worse!


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH has just watches links to the railway network and today the stream engine "Britannia" is doing a test run up to Carlisle.
At one section of the track there is about twenty train spotters with their cameras laughing looking at each other cameras sharing drinks  and not a face mask in sight and no social distancing, at a station further up the track another group with a police officer standing with them, still no masks or social distancing. I know masks aren't need outside but when people are that close surely it's common sense to wear them.


----------



## rona

I see Branson is fleecing the tax payer out of 1 billion


----------



## lullabydream

Arny said:


> If that's the case they would have done it when the infection rate was much higher.


They didn't know how effective mask wearing would be. It was always seen as it was a cultural thing in various countries, and they also I guess didn't want to panic buy when people were buying everything.

Maybe they should have done it months ago.. Would have helped, who knows.

However the science has moved on with fact that not only do masks protect others; which has always been known. Hence why surgeons wear them during surgery for example. There is now evidence they give small protection to others.

Although we should all possibly try to do 2m social distancing, we have 1m plus for the majority of the population except the shielding. More shops are open, more people going back to work as they would normally. Coming September schools, colleges, universities opening up. So lots more mixing if which is also leading to the winter months of flu and other winter illnesses such as the winter vomiting bug. Bring in the masks now, people see it as a what to do..its all to help with trying to stop a second peak..keep people safe and living and also to prevent another national lockdown. Although am not sure that will not happen at all.


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> True: the ''new normal'' is quite confusing I think. There are notices saying ''work from home where possible and save lives'', then the next day you see a picture of BJ saying ''Get back to the office and save the economy''.


dont forget 'lose weight to protect you from coronavirus!'...but also 'go out and stuff your face to save the economy!':Hilarious

I imagine we will all get used to the new normal pretty quick. When my work first started telling us to wear masks all the time it was a real pain. I felt claustrophobic and kept having to take it off everytime I wasnt around people. Now I just forget Im wearing it!


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> I see Branson is fleecing the tax payer out of 1 billion


Just typical of this government, they let British Steel stink, other companies are go to the wall and then choose to save a company who is part owned by a multi millionaire.:Banghead


----------



## MollySmith

Lib Dem’s pushed for public independent enquiry over government handling of the pandemic, which Johnson has agreed to. But no timeline and it’s not confirmed if it’s actually public by the government. Let’s hope it really is an independent company and not owned by Cumming’s optician..


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> Lib Dem's pushed for public independent enquiry over government handling of the pandemic, which Johnson has agreed to. But no timeline and it's not confirmed if it's actually public by the government. Let's hope it really is an independent company and not owned by Cumming's optician..


and we all know how long they take, they were say that we wont know the outcome till after the next election.


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> but also 'go out and stuff your face to save the economy!


 If I'm not mistaken, that was on the day they launched an anti-obesity campaign wasn't it!


----------



## lorilu

Jesthar said:


> Just when you think this couldn't get more bizarre, apparently we have finally discovered what heinous act of goverment it takes to get people to leave the tory party these days.
> 
> Yup, mandatory face coverings when shopping...
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rship-cards-mandatory-face-mask-a9617866.html


We've been mandatory face coverings in my state since mid April. A month later a law was passed in my state that establishments can refuse entry to anyone not wearing a mask.


----------



## Arny

lullabydream said:


> Bring in the masks now, people see it as a what to do..its all to help with trying to stop a second peak..keep people safe and living and also to prevent another national lockdown. Although am not sure that will not happen at all.


I'm sorry but I don't buy it.
It's all about public perception and the fact they've decided that more people will feel safe to get out and shop if everyone's wearing a mask.

Last week they said fleeting interactions carried very minimal risk, now they're saying it's the absolute worst?!? After all yesterday Matt Hancock said they won't be needed in the work place as face coverings are ineffective for long periods.

It's all about getting more people out there to bring the economy back up. I've no issue with that, if it collapses a hell of a lot more people will die, but say it how it is. Don't pretend there's 'new science' as WHO haven't changed their stance for ages now.


----------



## Magyarmum

http://ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf

*Face Masks Considerably Reduce COVID-19 Cases in Germany: A Synthetic Control Method Approach*


----------



## lullabydream

Arny said:


> I'm sorry but I don't buy it.
> It's all about public perception and the fact they've decided that more people will feel safe to get out and shop if everyone's wearing a mask.
> 
> Last week they said fleeting interactions carried very minimal risk, now they're saying it's the absolute worst?!? After all yesterday Matt Hancock said they won't be needed in the work place as face coverings are ineffective for long periods.
> 
> It's all about getting more people out there to bring the economy back up. I've no issue with that, if it collapses a hell of a lot more people will die, but say it how it is. Don't pretend there's 'new science' as WHO haven't changed their stance for ages now.


Am not pretending there is new science at all, but there has been more and more science looking at aerolisation of the virus. 
The WHO should be the best source to look at but it's very generalised it has to be, and they have not always given the best advice.

I don't know if it's coincidence but along with panic buying in my area, you were hard pushed not to see many wearing masks. Probably for the wrong reasons thinking they were offering protection to themselves, rather than others. It helped no doubt with lowering the curve, but now hardly anyone wears masks.

Matt Hancock tut tut, tell that to those in the NHS then who are wearing just the plain surgical disposal masks that many people are buying.

Yes I agree the economy is needed back on track, and to be honest have only heard negative reactions anyway about face masks. The public are less accepting now many have tried them don't like them.

It is what it is, another tool to use in the pandemic to help to fight a virus that isn't going anywhere soon.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I don't see why people are still making a fuss about wearing a mask in public indoor spaces tbh


----------



## Arny

lullabydream said:


> I don't know if it's coincidence but along with panic buying in my area, you were hard pushed not to see many wearing masks. Probably for the wrong reasons thinking they were offering protection to themselves, rather than others. It helped no doubt with lowering the curve, but now hardly anyone wears masks.


I have always seen barely anyone wearing one.



Lurcherlad said:


> I don't see why people are still making a fuss about wearing a mask in public indoor spaces tbh


My issue isn't with wearing one. Although quite frankly I don't care what others do or dont do. 
It's the lies.


----------



## Arny

Apologies though as this may be seen as going too political so I'll leave my thoughts on the matter there


----------



## StormyThai

Arny said:


> It's all about public perception and the fact they've decided that more people will feel safe to get out and shop if everyone's wearing a mask.


Considering how few are wearing any face coverings or keeping their distance, and the backlash from fully grown adults because after being asked to wear masks they didn't so now they are being told to wear them...I do not buy that at all.

The science has always suggested that masks help reduce the spread of a virus...the problem is when you systematically condition people to think that face coverings are bad and need to be stopped they get a bit huffy.

Going by my area people feel perfectly safe to crowd into shops, lurch down to the local Wetherspoons brush past people on paths and such like...people around here are acting as if there is no virus anymore.

As much as I think BJ is a waste of space and this government are a joke (it would be funny if people weren't dying) and Matt Hancock is a nasty, despicable excuse for a human being...I will happily stand up and say that while it should have been mandatory from the start (the great British public have shown time and time again that they have to be told what to do because thinking for themselves is a bit much apparently) they are right to get on top of things now.


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> Considering how few are wearing any face coverings or keeping their distance, and the backlash from fully grown adults because after being asked to wear masks they didn't so now they are being told to wear them...I do not buy that at all.
> 
> The science has always suggested that masks help reduce the spread of a virus...the problem is when you systematically condition people to think that face coverings are bad and need to be stopped they get a bit huffy.
> 
> Going by my area people feel perfectly safe to crowd into shops, lurch down to the local Wetherspoons brush past people on paths and such like...people around here are acting as if there is no virus anymore.
> 
> As much as I think BJ is a waste of space and this government are a joke (it would be funny if people weren't dying) and Matt Hancock is a nasty, despicable excuse for a human being...I will happily stand up and say that while it should have been mandatory from the start (the great British public have shown time and time again that they have to be told what to do because thinking for themselves is a bit much apparently) they are right to get on top of things now.


Well said.


----------



## Arny

StormyThai said:


> any face coverings or keeping their distance, and the backlash from fully grown adults because after being asked to wear masks they didn't so now they are being told to wear them...I do not buy that at all.


But how many are at home too scared to leave their house?
It'd be interesting to know.


----------



## StormyThai

Arny said:


> But how many are at home too scared to leave their house?
> It'd be interesting to know.


A small minority if my area is anything to go by.


----------



## Arny

StormyThai said:


> A small minority if my area is anything to go by.


It's the majority in my immediate area if the fb poll is anything to go by (obviously flawed in many ways).
Most feel we should still be in strict lockdown.


----------



## Siskin

Arny said:


> But how many are at home too scared to leave their house?
> It'd be interesting to know.


Me.
I'm recovering from a major op and coronavirus is the last thing I need at the moment. So we're staying put.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Arny said:


> But how many are at home too scared to leave their house?
> It'd be interesting to know.


I having only been going to the shops for things I really want to choose myself things like meat and fruit. I feel very nervous around people who aren't wearing masks I think it's just selfish.

I do like to get out to get a change of scenery and have a chat with people, keeping a safe distance and as long as they are wearing a mask, otherwise I just say hello and keep going.

I really think the government should say we should wear masks all the time, then everyone would know what they are doing.


----------



## lullabydream

Arny said:


> It's the majority in my immediate area if the fb poll is anything to go by (obviously flawed in many ways).
> Most feel we should still be in strict lockdown.


I think there is a lot of cognitive dissonance in people now.

I have used my local corner shop more as I feel more safe in the fact, people have to social distance there with the lay out. The employer and owners clean, especially the door handle and just a friendly vibe.

I have heard it all though.. Lockdown should have stayed but they are glad the local social club is open, can go shopping, met up with friends again etc as they chat with the shop owners who usually go above and beyond to keep everyone safe.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Seen on Facebook

quote
RETIRED SURGEON Sam Laucks, has this to say about wearing masks:
“OK, here’s my rant about masks:
I have spent the past 39 years working in the field of surgery. For a significant part of that time, I have worn a mask. I have worked with hundreds (probably thousands) of colleagues during those years, who have also worn masks. Not a single one us of became ill, passed out or died from lack of oxygen. Not a single one of us became ill, passed out or died from breathing too much carbon dioxide. Not a single one us of became ill, passed out or died from rebreathing a little of our own exhaled air. Let’s begin here by putting those scare tactics to rest!
(It is true that some people, with advanced lung diseases, may be so fragile that a mask could make their already-tenuous breathing more difficult. If your lungs are that bad, you probably shouldn’t be going out in public at the present time anyway; the consequences if you are exposed to Covid-19 would likely be devastating.)
~ “But”, you ask, “can’t viruses go right through the mask, because they are so small?” (“Masks keep viruses out just as well as a chain link fence keeps mosquitoes out,” some tell us.) It is true that individual virus particles can pass through the pores of a mask; however, viruses don’t move on their own. They do not fly across the room like a mosquito, wiggle through your mask like a worm, or fly up your nose like a gnat. The virus is essentially nothing more than a tiny blob of genetic material. Covid-19 travels in a CARRIER – the carrier is a fluid droplet- fluid droplets that you expel when you cough, sneeze, sing, laugh, talk or simply exhale. Most of your fluid droplets will be stopped from entering the air in the room if you are wearing a mask. Wearing a mask is a very efficient way to protect others if you are carrying the virus (even if you don’t know that you are infected). In addition, if someone else’s fluid droplets happen to land on your mask, many of them will not pass through. This gives the wearer some additional protection, too. But, the main reason to wear a mask is to PROTECT OTHERS. Even if you don’t care about yourself, wear your mask to protect your neighbors, co-workers and friends!
~ A mask is certainly not 100% protective. However, it appears that the severity of Covid-19 infection is at least partially “dose-dependent.” In other words, the more virus particles that enter your body, the sicker you are likely to become. Why not decrease that volume if you can? “What have you got to lose?!”
~ “But doesn’t a requirement or a request to wear a mask violate my constitutional rights?” You’re also not allowed to go into the grocery store if you are not wearing pants. You can’t yell “fire” in the Produce Department. You’re not allowed to urinate on the floor in the Frozen Food Section. Do you object to those restrictions? Rules, established for the common good, are component of a civilized society.
~ “But aren’t masks uncomfortable?” Some would say that underwear or shoes can be uncomfortable, but we still wear them. (Actually, being on a ventilator is pretty darned uncomfortable, too!) Are masks really so bad that you can’t tolerate them, even if they will help keep others healthy?
~ “But won’t people think I’m a snowflake or a wimp if I wear a mask?” I hope you have enough self-confidence to overcome that.
~ “But won’t I look stupid if I wear a mask?” I’ve decided not to dignify that question with an answer!!
~ “But I never get sick; I’m not worried.” Well, then, wear a mask for the sake of the rest of us who are not so perfect!
There is good evidence that masks make a real difference in diminishing the transmission of Covid-19. Please, for the sake of others (and for the sake of yourself), wear your mask when in public. It won’t kill you!
P.S. - And, by the way, please be sure that BOTH your nose and mouth are covered!
Recommendations around mask usage are confusing. The science isn't. Evidence shows that masks are extremely effective to slow the coronavirus and may be the best tool available right now to fight it.”
unquote


----------



## O2.0

I think too many things relating to covid-19 have been politicized, masks among them. 
It goes something like this: 
If you wear a mask, you're a sheeple snowflake leftie living in fear and are being controlled by the deep state looking to take away all your freedoms. 
If you don't wear a mask you're a selfish, knuckle-dragging, conspiracy theorist conservative who is too stupid to understand basic germ theory. 

And good old social media has shared some pretty crazy stuff too that people are believing. Like that masks harbor germs and you're increasing your risk of getting covid-19 if you wear them. Right up there with drinking bleach and blowdrying your nose to avoid the virus. (Yes, that was a thing and was even shared on here if I remember right.)

If we could just discuss masks without adding in all the politics, conspiracy theories, and conjecture, it would be a very simple conversation. Wearing a mask reduces the spread of many viruses including covid-19. 

Every single winter there is a box of free masks in my doctors office for people who think they might have the flu to put on while they wait in the waiting room. This has been going on for years. 
Why all of a sudden we think masks are some conspiracy to make us all sicker or sheeple or whatever when for decades we were happy to put on a mask in the doctors office to prevent the spread of the flu? Just more madness related to this pandemic....


----------



## lullabydream

Here is a complete numpty of a MP
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/government-mp-lincolnshire-face-masks-4332006

I don't usually like to bring politics in here but after the post by @Lurcherlad it seems my local MP who never seems to talk for the people but is in a secure seat, and always has random views seems to not have used logic or science for his debate as per usual.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Here is a complete numpty of a MP
> https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/government-mp-lincolnshire-face-masks-4332006
> 
> I don't usually like to bring politics in here but after the post by @Lurcherlad it seems my local MP who never seems to talk for the people but is in a secure seat, and always has random views seems to not have used logic or science for his debate as per usual.


The man's an idiot! 

What's that saying?

"Better to remain silent and be thought *a* fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."


----------



## Lurcherlad

Putting it in perspective ...










I think most people complaining about wearing a mask for a few minutes need to get a grip, quite frankly.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> The man's an idiot!
> 
> What's that saying?
> 
> "Better to remain silent and be thought *a* fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."


Yes complete and utterly agree.. He's in a safe seat is the only reason he gets elected year after year to be an MP but often is in local news for stupid things spoken.. Obviously this is a big one for him.

I can't remember if there was a comment on the local news probably was to adhere to lockdown.. So if we adhere to that why not masks? Schools, work places closed do that.. As am alright Jack as am still working however as I don't want to wear a mask then it's not OK.


----------



## catz4m8z

Im sure people will get with the program once it comes into effect. Alot of the problem is caused by wishy washy 'advice' and too much media coverage telling us different things every day.
I dont see why people are so scared to have their rights infringed on when it comes to public health...even in free, democratic countries matters of public health supercede peoples individual feelings. If you dont like it then go live alone on an island somewhere and declare it your own country!


----------



## MollySmith

Panorama on BBC 2 is all about Salford through the pandemic. It's following families, council and school headmaster. It's eye opening. Recommended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> Im sure people will get with the program once it comes into effect. Alot of the problem is caused by wishy washy 'advice' and too much media coverage telling us different things every day.
> I dont see why people are so scared to have their rights infringed on when it comes to public health...even in free, democratic countries matters of public health supercede peoples individual feelings. If you dont like it then go live alone on an island somewhere and declare it your own country!


Just in case (I'm addicted to this website!) http://uniquepropertybulletin.org/unique-islands/


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> Putting it in perspective ...
> 
> View attachment 444922
> 
> 
> I think most people complaining about wearing a mask for a few minutes need to get a grip, quite frankly.


I agree with people moaning about masks. I have a friend who complains about it daily.

I like the poster but of course no one ever went into walmart for only 15 minutes lol. It takes hours to shop there. I avoid that store at all costs.


----------



## Cully

The Range is like that for me, impossible to go into for just a few minutes. I like them because I can get the food Misty prefers but it's like an Aladdin's cave and I have to talk myself out of buying stuff.
Its been that long since I've been shopping that when I do start again, I'll be on a strict retail diet!


----------



## Jaf

I like this one.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm really getting fed up of been treated like a child, I just wish others would grow up and wear a bl**dy mask. We are not told to wear them, not to protect ourselves but to stop us pasting it on to others. Why are people so selfish and bl**dy minded that they wont wear one.:Banghead


----------



## lullabydream

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm really getting fed up of been treated like a child, I just wish others would grow up and wear a bl**dy mask. We are not told to wear them, not to protect ourselves but to stop us pasting it on to others. Why are people so selfish and bl**dy minded that they wont wear one.:Banghead


I honestly think mask wearing here has lessened because people have realised they started to realise it didn't protect themselves but others around them I do think many people are selfish in some aspects which is sad.. Now of course we are protecting both as science has looked at it more.. It didn't need to look into the aspect before as such.

Don't get me wrong there are also so many people who do a lot for others and will always put others needs over themselves. However after the ridiculousness of panic buying with the pandemic, how hard it was vulnerable people to get delivery slots originally as more people wanted to food deliveries when more people had free time with working from home or not being able to work. It was mind boggling to me.


----------



## catz4m8z

lorilu said:


> I like the poster but of course no one ever went into walmart for only 15 minutes lol. It takes hours to shop there. I avoid that store at all costs.


oddly enough Ive just watched a clip on Youtube of an elderly woman throwing a 2yr olds tantrum in Walmart, sitting on the floor sulking, all because they wouldnt serve her without a mask! And why do they always spout off about their 'constitutional rights'? Ive just had a quick Google of the Constitution and I cant find anything about wearing masks for public safety...there is however a sentence at the beginning about 'promoting the general welfare'.
Clearly you can just pick and choose which bits you like though!


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> Here is a complete numpty of a MP
> https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/government-mp-lincolnshire-face-masks-4332006
> 
> I don't usually like to bring politics in here but after the post by @Lurcherlad it seems my local MP who never seems to talk for the people but is in a secure seat, and always has random views seems to not have used logic or science for his debate as per usual.


Feels like a party losing control of its MPs, assuming he is Tory?


----------



## rona

I wonder if the Queen and Tom Moore will wear masks this afternoon


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm really getting fed up of been treated like a child, I just wish others would grow up and wear a bl**dy mask. We are not told to wear them, not to protect ourselves but to stop us pasting it on to others. Why are people so selfish and bl**dy minded that they wont wear one.:Banghead


You don't want to looking at the new news. Possible increase in cases over winter but pretty much all measures including working from home are being scrapped. From 1 August offices can open I think.

It's chaotic and contrary advice. I'll carry on as much as I can with lockdown and remain hopeful that the university where I work a few days a week will recognise that people don't want to sit in airlocked offices. So far distance working at home has been safe. But I feel very sorry for anyone who works for a careless employer who micro manages - I've worked for a few and know they'd be pushing people back in with little care.


----------



## lorilu

catz4m8z said:


> oddly enough Ive just watched a clip on Youtube of an elderly woman throwing a 2yr olds tantrum in Walmart, sitting on the floor sulking, all because they wouldnt serve her without a mask! And why do they always spout off about their 'constitutional rights'? Ive just had a quick Google of the Constitution and I cant find anything about wearing masks for public safety...there is however a sentence at the beginning about 'promoting the general welfare'.
> Clearly you can just pick and choose which bits you like though!


It is absolutely ridiculous these people and claiming their "rights' not to wear a mask.

I wore a mask for hours when visiting my sister in the hospital. I wore a mask for hours when having my mammogram and breast ultrasound. I wear a mask for hours sometimes at work because I forget to take it off.

I understand everyone has different levels of tolerance, but..I have terrible sensory intolerance (quality of life affecting intolerance) and I can manage a mask. I prefer the "paper" or whatever they are made of masks rather than cloth ones. I find cloth suffocating.

I've had to have a covid test, because someone in my office building has become ill and tested positive. His exposure was traced to a wedding he had attended the weekend prior. I don't know if people were wearing masks at the wedding. Probably not. I do know that the first few weeks we were back in the building I had to complain to personnel several times about him NOT wearing a mask before he finally started wearing one, and this guy is a department head! Anyway I won't have the results back until next week. Everyone else had their tests right away and everyone so far is negative, but I thought it would be be better for at least one person to wait a few days because apparently no one knows WHEN you might begin to test positive after potential exposure, if you do have it. I have had no direct contact with him other than seeing him walk through the lobby past my (closed glass) customer window.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> I wonder if the Queen and Tom Moore will wear masks this afternoon


or a very very long sword..... scary!!


----------



## lorilu

By the way, human resources has made sure we know that it was the "health monitoring" that tipped this guy off that he was sick. 

We are required to take our temperatures morning and evening (and record them) and answer questions about healthy symptoms and exposures. 7 days a week. Apparently there has been some grumbling about that, because it's now being stressed that he discovered his illness because of these health monitoring checks.


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> You don't want to looking at the new news. Possible increase in cases over winter but pretty much all measures including working from home are being scrapped. From 1 August offices can open I think.


I think there is still a big push and shove happening between public safety and the economy though. I may think the government is doing a crap job but at the same time I dont envy them trying to balance saving the countries physical health and their financial health!
It seems like alot of firms will use this opportunity to keep alot of people working from home though. I suppose if this has shown that productivity doesnt suffer then it makes more sense to just keep doing it!

I am def abit worried about what winter will bring though. Especially if we get a bad flu year on top.:Nailbiting


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> It is absolutely ridiculous these people and claiming their "rights' not to wear a mask.


These guys are awesome, though the video is rather depressing....



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=411839819716165


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> These guys are awesome, though the video is rather depressing....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=411839819716165


I don't usually watch videos but I watched this one and I'm glad I did. It was about what I expected from the general public but those guys were really wonderful. And I love the pink outfit!


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> These guys are awesome, though the video is rather depressing....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=411839819716165


So very sad if only because it's almost certain that some of those people not wearing masks will succumb to the infection.

We had much the same situation in South Africa during the HIV epidemic, when condoms were free and easily available to anyone who cared to use them. The most common reason for not wearing one was that "Real men don't wear condoms".

Sadly many of those "real" men lived to rue their decision and died a painful and untimely death.

An interesting article I read this morning ..............

https://www.yesmagazine.org/opinion...ab&utm_source=CM&utm_term=Read the full story

*Mask-Shaming Won't Work. Try These 5 Things Instead*


----------



## stuaz

O2.0 said:


> These guys are awesome, though the video is rather depressing....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=411839819716165


Depressing but sadly not shocking 

Listened to one lady on the radio proclaim she didnt need a mask because she rubbed ginger around her eyes.....and viruses don't like the "smell" of ginger so she will be safe.:Banghead


----------



## Arny

Happy Paws2 said:


> I just wish others would grow up and wear a bl**dy mask. We are not told to wear them, not to protect ourselves but to stop us pasting it on to others. Why are people so selfish and bl**dy minded that they wont wear one.:Banghead


This is exactly the sort of constant judgement throughout this whole thing I was talking about earlier.
For one you don't know their circumstance. Didn't you get upset when you thought someone might be judging you because of whats in your shopping basket.

My neighbour was in tears as for years she's tried to prevent people labelling her son, she will now be putting a sign on him to explain why he's exempt from wearing a face covering so to try and avoid confrontation.


----------



## Magyarmum

stuaz said:


> Depressing but sadly not shocking
> 
> Listened to one lady on the radio proclaim she didnt need a mask because she rubbed ginger around her eyes.....and viruses don't like the "smell" of ginger so she will be safe.:Banghead


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> I like this one.
> 
> View attachment 444961


 No mention of cats?


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> No mention of cats?


Don't some prefer to social distance anyway.. They could have taught us all!
My friends cat doesn't get the art of social distancing.. Neither does the dog so it's a bit of a fight for who gets to go to see a visitor.. Usually me!


----------



## catz4m8z

Its weird how in the states the emphasis seems to on 'ma rights!!' or 'its all a hoax!'. Feels like in the UK not wearing a mask when required is more to do with apathy and just believing you probably wont catch it anyways....
I wonder what other countries anti-mask folk are thinking?:Bored


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> Its weird how in the states the emphasis seems to on 'ma rights!!' or 'its all a hoax!'. Feels like in the UK not wearing a mask when required is more to do with apathy and just believing you probably wont catch it anyways....
> I wonder what other countries anti-mask folk are thinking?:Bored


In Hungary I've heard it said that the virus is a hoax and the mandatory wearing of masks is the government's way of exercising control over the population.


----------



## stuaz

Magyarmum said:


>


The presenter did question her on it and was like "who told you that" and she said it was something she was brought up doing and it protected her from things like malaria as well!

He then flipped it round and said if she was going in for an operation and the surgeon was like "i don't need to wear a mask cos I have ginger around my eyes" would she be ok with that? And her response was that she would be ok with that because it really works.....

In the end he ended the conversation with her having failed to convince her otherwise!


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> No mention of cats?


How about 2 lions, 4 maine coons and 18 siamese? Or maybe kittens as I think chihuahuas are tiny?

Bedlam!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Arny said:


> This is exactly the sort of constant judgement throughout this whole thing I was talking about earlier.
> For one you don't know their circumstance. Didn't you get upset when you thought someone might be judging you because of whats in your shopping basket.
> 
> My neighbour was in tears as for years she's tried to prevent people labelling her son, she will now be putting a sign on him to explain why he's exempt from wearing a face covering so to try and avoid confrontation.


I know there are people who are exempt I don't have a problem with them, It's people round here who I know who can't see any reason why they should wear one that gets to me.

And at the time I was just making a point people who are over weight should still be entitled to treatment what ever they had in there shopping basket, and anyway whatever is in my basket isn't breathing germs on people I may come in contact with.


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> How about 2 lions, 4 maine coons and 18 siamese? Or maybe kittens as I think chihuahuas are tiny?
> 
> Bedlam!


:Hilarious v good.


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary I've heard it said that the virus is a hoax and the mandatory wearing of masks is the government's way of exercising control over the population.


Exactly the same here. One of my friends is convinced that's the case and part of preparing us to do as we're told when they use the fake Covid vaccine to put microchips in us. It sounds so crazy to me, I can barely believe I'm typing it and I'm waiting for my friend to say "April Fools", or something.


----------



## Elles

Arny said:


> This is exactly the sort of constant judgement throughout this whole thing I was talking about earlier.
> For one you don't know their circumstance. Didn't you get upset when you thought someone might be judging you because of whats in your shopping basket.
> 
> My neighbour was in tears as for years she's tried to prevent people labelling her son, she will now be putting a sign on him to explain why he's exempt from wearing a face covering so to try and avoid confrontation.


If everyone who could wear a mask said "great idea, on it", no one would even question that her son must be exempt, or would be wanting to wear a mask like everyone else. He could be someone vulnerable who makes it even more imperative that the rest of us wear our masks to protect him and keep the spread of the disease under control. Instead we get idiots saying "I'm not wearing a mask, who are you to tell me what to do." 

I do think stores should be handing them out, or selling them for a couple of pence like a carrier, maybe depending on what you buy. They don't have to be expensive.


----------



## Jesthar

Jaf said:


> How about 2 lions, 4 maine coons and 18 siamese? Or maybe kittens as I think chihuahuas are tiny?
> 
> Bedlam!


Nah, you'd never get the Meezers to stay still!


----------



## Boxer123

A vaccine is looking more likely from news today. All of these scientists are working tirelessly away behind the scenes it’s amazing.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> A vaccine is looking more likely from news today. All of these scientists are working tirelessly away behind the scenes it's amazing.


I hope it won't be too long before there is a vaccine, unfortunately these things have to be tested to the enth degree. There was something on this mornings news which said not to expect it before the new year.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I hope it won't be too long before there is a vaccine, unfortunately these things have to be tested to the enth degree. There was something on this mornings news which said not to expect it before the new year.


I heard that as well.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> I hope it won't be too long before there is a vaccine, unfortunately these things have to be tested to the enth degree. There was something on this mornings news which said not to expect it before the new year.


Noi wouldn't expect it before then but when you think it took 30 years to find a treatment for HIV the speed at which they are working just blows my mind.


----------



## lullabydream

Boxer123 said:


> Noi wouldn't expect it before then but when you think it took 30 years to find a treatment for HIV the speed at which they are working just blows my mind.


The good thing with looking at Covid-19 is that it's a Coronavirus and we had the genome straightaway. People have been studying coronoviruses for many many years, and with advances in technology too it all helps.

HIV is a wicked virus that mutates so quickly, that this is why the treatment is multitudes of drugs to try and think before it does.. Yes by nature viruses do mutate but it was a virus that mutated so rapidly no one had seen anything like this before. Again with new technology, better medications as time went on we are, where we are today. If another virus arises with high, fast mutation levels I would highly doubt it will take 30 years to cure. Though I won't bet on it, because viruses are still hard to tackle from a biology point of view as the antiviral drugs we do have, only help so far. It's let a virus run it's course, think cold/flu. Bacteria infections though we can aid them with antibiotics to eradicate them.

Fingers crossed for a vaccine. There must be one close, may be I signed up for this app thingy and log how I feel every day and they asked if I feel about being in a vaccine trial. Don't know if that's false hope or not. Think that's with Kings college?!?!?


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Boxer123 said:


> Noi wouldn't expect it before then but when you think it took 30 years to find a treatment for HIV the speed at which they are working just blows my mind.


I think the big HIV breakthroughs were mid/late 90s, which is closer to 15 years. I dont think we will have to wait that long for an effective treatment/ vaccine at the speed scientists are working and science has come a long way in the last 30 years.


----------



## kittih

lullabydream said:


> The good thing with looking at Covid-19 is that it's a Coronavirus and we had the genome straightaway. People have been studying coronoviruses for many many years, and with advances in technology too it all helps.
> 
> HIV is a wicked virus that mutates so quickly, that this is why the treatment is multitudes of drugs to try and think before it does.. Yes by nature viruses do mutate but it was a virus that mutated so rapidly no one had seen anything like this before. Again with new technology, better medications as time went on we are, where we are today. If another virus arises with high, fast mutation levels I would highly doubt it will take 30 years to cure. Though I won't bet on it, because viruses are still hard to tackle from a biology point of view as the antiviral drugs we do have, only help so far. It's let a virus run it's course, think cold/flu. Bacteria infections though we can aid them with antibiotics to eradicate them.
> 
> Fingers crossed for a vaccine. There must be one close, may be I signed up for this app thingy and log how I feel every day and they asked if I feel about being in a vaccine trial. Don't know if that's false hope or not. Think that's with Kings college?!?!?


I do this too and also got asked whether I would be happy to be approached for trials. It is this app. They are collecting lots of useful data for understanding the virus and also where any hotspots may be developing in the country. The more people who log the better no matter whether they have any symptoms or feel fine. They've already done some studies on how gender and oestrogen plays a role, diet and nutrition etc and were instrumental in getting other symptoms recognised including anosmia and covid toes and rashes...

https://covid.joinzoe.com/


----------



## MollySmith

kittih said:


> I do this too and also got asked whether I would be happy to be approached for trials. It is this app. They are collecting lots of useful data for understanding the virus and also where any hotspots may be developing in the country. The more people who log the better no matter whether they have any symptoms or feel fine. They've already done some studies on how gender and oestrogen plays a role, diet and nutrition etc and were instrumental in getting other symptoms recognised including anosmia and covid toes and rashes...
> 
> https://covid.joinzoe.com/


Thank you @kittih I am reading through this as I'd do anything to help.


----------



## SbanR

Covid song


----------



## lorilu

At my place of employment all employees are required to log daily health checks. Temperature twice a day and a check off list of symptoms and possible exposures. This log has to be kept daily, whether the person is going in to work or not. The first and second logs they devised were incredibly invasive of privacy and I think there must have been some complaints and possibly the union got involved because it's been majorly pared down now.

However, an employee in my building attended a wedding, monitored his health as required and found changes 3 days after the wedding, immediately began isolating and saw his health care provider and was tested positive and diagnosed with covid-19.

So we all had to be notified, we all started working from home again (there are several very vulnerable people in my building and I count myself only because I have a sister with advanced stage cancer who I am helping care for) and we all had the "option" of being tested. Some went right away, but I couldn't find any information about when was the best time to test after "suspected or potential exposure" so I waited a week. I was told testing was not mandatory, the risk to everyone else was very low, and there was no pressure (sure) but I was actually nagged almost daily about whether I had gone for the test or not.

I did finally get tested a week later as I said, (which would have been 11 days after my last potential exposure to this employee) and I, like everyone else in the building, was negative.

Since then of course they are stressing the importance of the logs even more saying that it was because of that log that the employee became aware so quickly he was having symptoms. His temp went up a couple of degrees higher than normal I guess, is what pegged it.


----------



## catz4m8z

lorilu said:


> At my place of employment all employees are required to log daily health checks. Temperature twice a day and a check off list of symptoms and possible exposures. This log has to be kept daily, whether the person is going in to work or not.


Blimey! Your work is very strict!!:Wideyed
Ive just spent all night struggling to keep alive a patient who could potentially have covid. Am keeping everything crossed for them (they are a lovely person), but worrying about exposure isnt going to stop me caring for them or even just stroking their hair when they feel scared. I think health care workers have a bit of a 'somebody's got to do it!' attitude though!LOL:Shy
Oddly enough I do worry more now that Ive had it....just thinking that if I have antibodies am I more likely to now be a silent spreader if I catch it again??


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> just thinking that if I have antibodies am I more likely to now be a silent spreader if I catch it again??


That's not how immunity works or the theory of herd immunity and vaccinations would be nil and void

The most recent studies on immunity though are saying that immunity lasts longer than they were thinking so that's good news if you have had it


----------



## catz4m8z

But they are also saying that immunity may not last for more then several months and if you get it again chances are it would be less severe due to antibodies, so potentially you could have it a second time and not know it.....not something Im willing to risk vulnerable family members with I think!


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> But they are also saying that immunity may not last for more then several months and if you get it again chances are it would be less severe due to antibodies, so potentially you could have it a second time and not know it.....not something Im willing to risk vulnerable family members with I think!


That's what they were saying, the newer data which I said looks promising, which also means vaccinations lifetime looks good.
We already know coronovirus have time limited life line.. Hence flu vaccinations yearly, not just because of different strains but because of lifetime of needing a booster. The new data is saying its acting similiar to other corona viruses.

There will always be people that don't immediately build up an immune response, hence why in the young with immature immune systems we have the vaccination then a second dose in quick of quick succession of certain diseases as we know immune responses might not happen in some initially. We don't do this in later life for boosters, hoping the immune system is OK.


----------



## catz4m8z

Just checking out Youtube today and 2 flagged news articles are yesterdays 'there may never be a covid-19 vaccine', followed by 'should covid-19 vaccine be compulsory?'.

So there you go......clear as mud!!:Hilarious


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> Just checking out Youtube today and 2 flagged news articles are yesterdays 'there may never be a covid-19 vaccine', followed by 'should covid-19 vaccine be compulsory?'.
> 
> So there you go......clear as mud!!:Hilarious


YouTube and media sources.. Best place for vaccine information of course

However if you like YouTube.. Here is one person you should listen to with the latest peer reviewed paper on immunity


----------



## MollySmith

Can I have some advice? We’ve moved our holiday to Cornwall to 2021 as it feels too risky, 400 miles and I don’t fancy service stations and we can’t book NT stops as we can’t sort out traffic. But we could go to a remote cottage in Norfolk which is only a hour away end of Oct. I know the area - if I’m honest, I just want a change of scenery, we’ve been here since March and I’m pretty much working 7 days a week as I’m self employed. What’s everyone else doing with holidays?


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> Can I have some advice? We've moved our holiday to Cornwall to 2021 as it feels too risky, 400 miles and I don't fancy service stations and we can't book NT stops as we can't sort out traffic. But we could go to a remote cottage in Norfolk which is only a hour away end of Oct. I know the area - if I'm honest, I just want a change of scenery, we've been here since March and I'm pretty much working 7 days a week as I'm self employed. What's everyone else doing with holidays?


Surely only you can only answer this question. It shouldn't be about conformity in my opinion. It should be individuals who make their own risk assessment, every family would be different with different risks with Covid-19 and whether it's worth any financial loss if there would be one.

Looking at the UK as a whole, and the current suggestion is local lockdown. Currently looking like this is due to stay for the foreseeable future; scientists aren't that enthusiastic about it and the first time they are piping up above Johnson. So we will see if he's going to back track.

October is on the cusp on winter bugs, so fingers crossed that numbers for Covid-19 haven't risen.

If it was being able to go away for a break and self cater, take maybe the minibeasts or just Maisie so focus on walks and staying in really. Not trying as others do visit every place of heritage as such then I would say it's probably doable for us.. It depends on you plans for eating out, and places to visit. Plus currently anywhere be could come a hot stop at anytime.. We just don't know what will be going on in 3 months time
I would definitely want to keep myself to myself. More than I normal would.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Can I have some advice? We've moved our holiday to Cornwall to 2021 as it feels too risky, 400 miles and I don't fancy service stations and we can't book NT stops as we can't sort out traffic. But we could go to a remote cottage in Norfolk which is only a hour away end of Oct. I know the area - if I'm honest, I just want a change of scenery, we've been here since March and I'm pretty much working 7 days a week as I'm self employed. What's everyone else doing with holidays?


From what I've been told, service stations have been very good at the distancing stuff and making people feel safe, so personally I wouldn't let the distance make your decision for you.

Your call obviously, but I think that anywhere might have issues. I'd just go where you want and make sure you stay safe wherever you go.

Edit, I think I read it wrong, are you asking if you should go now?


----------



## SusieRainbow

I did see on BBC news site that one of the Norfolk MPs was begging people to stay away to reduce infection risk. I was disappointed as we love Norfolk for holidays but I could fully understand and sympathise with the request.
We were supposed to be going to a wedding in Cornwall in August but it's been postponed until next year. That's disappointing too but for the best I feel.
So our holiday wll be a few nights in Mablethorpe in the Autumn with the hound on the coast. Not very exciting but it's what we feel safest and most comfortable with. I certainly wouldn't contemplate a holiday abroad this year.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Can I have some advice? We've moved our holiday to Cornwall to 2021 as it feels too risky, 400 miles and I don't fancy service stations and we can't book NT stops as we can't sort out traffic. But we could go to a remote cottage in Norfolk which is only a hour away end of Oct. I know the area - if I'm honest, I just want a change of scenery, we've been here since March and I'm pretty much working 7 days a week as I'm self employed. What's everyone else doing with holidays?


I dont see what the harm is if you go to a remote cottage in Norfolk. 
I went to the Wye Valley last week and had twp stops at different M4 service stations , they were pretty busy , they had separate in and out exits and staff at the entrance lots of hand sanitisers , but no staff to regulate the toilets at either, I didnt go in as women were coming in and out and passing each other , no one wearing masks . The rate of women coming in and out meant it must have been quite crowded inside.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If you’re planning on still keeping to yourselves and following the rules then a self catering place in Norfolk could work imo. Go well stocked so interaction in public can be kept to a minimum.

It’s not all about physical health after all and a change of scenery will do you good 

According to google maps the fastest route is 1h 37m so no need for loo stops etc. 

If I can find a detached property with a view, I’d be tempted. I’m tired of the same environment tbh.


----------



## Boxer123

Myself and the boxers are going to York self catering with my sister there will be no pub visits but a change of scenery.


----------



## kimthecat

@MollySmith I can lend you a shewee. Only used once !


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> Myself and the boxers are going to York self catering with my sister there will be no pub visits but a change of scenery.


You can stop off at Cannon Hall at junction 37 of the M1 as they have a dog cafe with lovely food. The tables are all spaced out or you can eat outside if you prefer. As you are on your own you can't use the toilets in the restaurant opposite but the public toilets in the bottom carpark have supervised access. You can easily walk around the park avoiding people and the garden centre is dog friendly as well.


----------



## Boxer123

Jobeth said:


> You can stop off at Cannon Hall at junction 37 of the M1 as they have a dog cafe with lovely food. The tables are all spaced out or you can eat outside if you prefer. As you are on your own you can't use the toilets in the restaurant opposite but the public toilets in the bottom carpark have supervised access. You can easily walk around the park avoiding people and the garden centre is dog friendly as well.


Thank you I'm going to try and do the whole journey without stopping sister lives in York so we pick her up on route but it does depend on the boxers I will stop if they get fidgety sometimes they sleep the whole way lazy sods.


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you I'm going to try and do the whole journey without stopping sister lives in York so we pick her up on route but it does depend on the boxers I will stop if they get fidgety sometimes they sleep the whole way lazy sods.


I was thinking if you needed to stop! The service station on the northbound M1 just after J38 is also the quietest one I've ever been to.


----------



## Cully

Having spent every Wednesday in recent weeks awaiting my Tesco delivery, unpacking, washing, stashing it away, I was looking forward to Friday when mask wearing becomes mandatory in shops. With everyone (?) wearing one I will feel more confident about venturing out.
Then I suddenly realised that not only will I be unpacking my shopping, washing it and stashing it away, I will actually have to go and _fetch_ the b****y stuff as well.:Arghh.


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> In the US AA is Alcoholics Anonymous. (which I thought was universal actually)
> 
> What is AA in the UK?





Cully said:


> Having spent every Wednesday in recent weeks awaiting my Tesco delivery, unpacking, washing, stashing it away, I was looking forward to Friday when mask wearing becomes mandatory in shops. With everyone (?) wearing one I will feel more confident about venturing out.
> Then I suddenly realised that not only will I be unpacking my shopping, washing it and stashing it away, I will actually have to go and _fetch_ the b****y stuff as well.:Arghh.


I don't wipe everything down as most of the things aren't going to be used for days but always wash my hands after touching any shopping.


----------



## Boxer123

Jobeth said:


> I was thinking if you needed to stop! The service station on the northbound M1 just after J38 is also the quietest one I've ever been to.


It's about 3.5 hour drive I've told my sister I'm expecting some of her home made banana cake on arrival. The boxers do enjoy a mooch at a service station.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> Having spent every Wednesday in recent weeks awaiting my Tesco delivery, unpacking, washing, stashing it away, I was looking forward to Friday when mask wearing becomes mandatory in shops. With everyone (?) wearing one I will feel more confident about venturing out.
> Then I suddenly realised that not only will I be unpacking my shopping, washing it and stashing it away, I will actually have to go and _fetch_ the b****y stuff as well.:Arghh.


Join the club! No one delivers groceries to my village and it's a 12 mile drive to the nearest supermarket, so even though the elderly like me are supposed to shelter at home, unless I'm going to starve I have to shop for groceries.

Fortunately because wearing masks has been mandatory for the past 3 months it's very rarely you see anyone in the supermarket not wearing one. And unlike the UK our shopping malls are never very crowded so keeping a good social distance is relatively easy.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> I don't wipe everything down as most of the things aren't going to be used for days but always wash my hands after touching any shopping.


I don't wash absolutely everything either. I keep a box to quarantine stuff not going to be needed for a few days. I also bag and store stuff for the freezer/fridge without washing if it's not needed yet. I only wash stuff which I'm going to be using within the next few days. Oh, and if something can be unboxed straight into a clean container I don't wash those either.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> I don't wash absolutely everything either. I keep a box to quarantine stuff not going to be needed for a few days. I also bag and store stuff for the freezer/fridge without washing if it's not needed yet. I only wash stuff which I'm going to be using within the next few days. Oh, and if something can be unboxed straight into a clean container I don't wash those either.


I think if I washed everything I'd started to get paranoid.


----------



## Arny

Who knows where we'll be in October for your Norfolk trip, so difficult to plan ahead.
If it were now when things are a little more certain I would go.


Happy Paws2 said:


> I think if I washed everything I'd started to get paranoid.


I don't wash anything either, just my hands..


----------



## Siskin

We went to the little market held in a nearby village this morning. First time I’ve been for ages. It was really nice, fairly busy, but not crowded, just more people then I’ve seen for a while. Not many wearing masks, but then it is outside. There was a fruit and veg stall, plants, and a small pet food stall. Bought lots of fruit and veg and some Cosmos plants to brighten up the garden. Husband went into the bakery and the small Spar shop suitably masked up whilst I went back to the car. It was just so nice to be out and about and see other folk going about their business and having loud conversations with others as they tried to stay socially distanced


----------



## MollySmith

Thanks everyone.

We've decided to stay put. The wedding - @SusieRainbow us too - we were meant to go to is scaled back and talking to my friends there, they are really worried that a holiday means it's all over for some tourists (they are all reporting crowds in St Ives and other places) . I'm also mindful that the Royal Cornwall Hospital isn't very big. Either way looks like we're going to be celebrating a Big Wedding Anniversary of our own there instead!

I'm going to wait it out on Norfolk a little bit longer. @Lurcherlad thanks - yes, all you've said, mental health really matters, and we can literally move camp and just get a strange of scene.

@lullabydream I was mulling it over - absolutely it's my decision to make, but it's helpful to sound out as we have people from different parts of the country. I hope it's helped a few others.

@kimthecat thank you.... I think


----------



## rona

If I wanted to go I think I'd go now before it increases and look at an area where cases/spread is still low.
I'm really lucky because I've already been away, albeit just an hour down the road. We were offered the very first week in a property. Could only use three days, but it was wonderful. On the coast and able to swim...........bliss.
I think if I had to go into a property where someone else had been before, I would take all my direct eating and drinking implements and a lot of disinfectant spray. I might miss the first day or two too.


----------



## Magyarmum

Oh dear! Someone has some explaining to do? Excuse the funny translation - google's to blame!

https://www.borsod24.com/2020/07/21...bfEpHeC5gHXC1UsaK1mfi5srHCH6dsx4-HgJgtv4fv0Yg

*This is a cuddly: a prostitute caught the coronavirus, her guests have to report as family members*


----------



## willa

Just cancelled our August trip to Corfu . EasyJet have rolled our flights over to next summer instead for free.
Shame as I’d love to have gone. But didn’t feel right travelling abroad with the current situation.

We’re hoping we can find a little cottage ( Dog friendly) in Cornwall for a week. But it’s so last minute chances are very slim


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.economist.com/science-a...tm_term=2020-07-22&utm_content=article-link-2

*The hunt for the origins of SARS-CoV-2 will look beyond China*


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Just cancelled our August trip to Corfu . EasyJet have rolled our flights over to next summer instead for free.
> Shame as I'd love to have gone. But didn't feel right travelling abroad with the current situation.
> 
> We're hoping we can find a little cottage ( Dog friendly) in Cornwall for a week. But it's so last minute chances are very slim


Hope you can find somewhere, at least the the dog will be happy.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> people who are over weight should still be entitled to treatment what ever they had in there shopping basket


 I read this week that obese people are going to have better access to gastric band operations at ??£5000/£7000?? a time, as it will in fact save the NHS money in the long run. . . so that's a start. Why not? People who smoke and get smoking-related diseases are entitled to what is likely expensive treatment and heavy drinkers too. And really, smoking and drinking related illnesses are self-inflicted, like people who are compulsive eaters for whatever reason. No-one forces you to smoke, like no-one force-feeds you to make you obese.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> A vaccine is looking more likely from news today. All of these scientists are working tirelessly away behind the scenes it's amazing.


Who will be entitled to it . . . and would you have it?


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> Who will be entitled to it . . . and would you have it?


Initially they are saying those most at risk and health workers. The government have pre ordered 100 million but yes i would have it.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> Who will be entitled to it . . . and would you have it?


I'm entitled to a 'flu jab every year. Why wouldn't I want a covid vaccine?


----------



## Calvine

Which is why I asked:


Calvine said:


> Who will be entitled to it


I do not know WHO is normally entitled to a flu jab, and if this will be in addition to, or instead of, regular flu jabs.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> Initially they are saying those most at risk and health workers. The government have pre ordered 100 million but yes i would have it.


Thank you.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> Which is why I asked:
> 
> I do not know WHO is normally entitled to a flu jab, and if this will be in addition to, or instead of, regular flu jabs.


I think it would be as well as. I'm asthmatic so am entitled to a free flu vaccine but you can pay for one if your not. I shouldn't think initially the government will have enough for everyone if they do find a vaccine.


----------



## MilleD

I've been thinking about the subject of holidays.

I find going on holiday extremely stressful. We usually go abroad and I detest flying, so that puts a dampener on the whole experience. The packing stresses me out, the travel to the airport stresses me out. Worrying about the cats stresses me out. While I'm away, worrying about the flight back stresses me out. I'm fairly laid back normally, but holidays bring out a monstrous side to me. The best bit is getting back to my house 

Is it just me who is glad I don't have to worry about all those things at the moment and for the foreseeable? 

I think I'm turning into a hermit.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I would imagine that the NHS and Care Workers would be first, then everyone who is entitled to the yearly flu jab and then hopefully be free to all.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> I read this week that obese people are going to have better access to gastric band operations at ??£5000/£7000?? a time, as it will in fact save the NHS money in the long run. . . so that's a start. Why not? People who smoke and get smoking-related diseases are entitled to what is likely expensive treatment and heavy drinkers too. And really, smoking and drinking related illnesses are self-inflicted, like people who are compulsive eaters for whatever reason. No-one forces you to smoke, like no-one force-feeds you to make you obese.


That is a crazy amount of money and these operations still only work if the person is ready to change. Surely this money would be better spent in mental health services. There must be a reason that we are only behind the USA in the world obesity scale.


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> I've been thinking about the subject of holidays.
> 
> I find going on holiday extremely stressful. We usually go abroad and I detest flying, so that puts a dampener on the whole experience. The packing stresses me out, the travel to the airport stresses me out. Worrying about the cats stresses me out. While I'm away, worrying about the flight back stresses me out. I'm fairly laid back normally, but holidays bring out a monstrous side to me. The best bit is getting back to my house
> 
> Is it just me who is glad I don't have to worry about all those things at the moment and for the foreseeable?
> 
> I think I'm turning into a hermit.


I'll be honest I hate going abroad and am terrified of flying. I went to the Maldives years ago and was so scared on the flight back I vowed not to fly again. I missed Sox so much. However I love my UK holidays I take the boys and tend to stay in a lovely cottage and just potter around. I love the sea so it makes it a real holiday.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> I'll be honest I hate going abroad and am terrified of flying. I went to the Maldives years ago and was so scared on the flight back I vowed not to fly again. I missed Sox so much. However I love my UK holidays I take the boys and tend to stay in a lovely cottage and just potter around. I love the sea so it makes it a real holiday.


I'm much better with UK holidays, but haven't done many recently.

Spent a week in a place called Rose just outside of Perranporth last year which was lovely, but I couldn't take the cats obviously, so there is still that stress involved.

I was pretty proud of myself in February that I went to Poland on connecting flights no less! There is no way I would have booked that myself, but there were a few of us so I wasn't consulted.

I did really well I thought, until the plane started fishtailing coming in to land, luckily that was touchdown back in Birmingham but it set me right back.

My problem is I don't want other people to miss out because I hate flying so end up putting myself through it


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> Just cancelled our August trip to Corfu . EasyJet have rolled our flights over to next summer instead for free.
> Shame as I'd love to have gone. But didn't feel right travelling abroad with the current situation.
> 
> We're hoping we can find a little cottage ( Dog friendly) in Cornwall for a week. But it's so last minute chances are very slim


That is a shame, but I know a few people who have done the same - either completely cancelled, or scaled back their holiday to a long weekend somewhere in UK. Hope you find something. Can't believe it's almost August.


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> I'm much better with UK holidays, but haven't done many recently.
> 
> Spent a week in a place called Rose just outside of Perranporth last year which was lovely, but I couldn't take the cats obviously, so there is still that stress involved.
> 
> I was pretty proud of myself in February that I went to Poland on connecting flights no less! There is no way I would have booked that myself, but there were a few of us so I wasn't consulted.
> 
> I did really well I thought, until the plane started fishtailing coming in to land, luckily that was touchdown back in Birmingham but it set me right back.
> 
> My problem is I don't want other people to miss out because I hate flying so end up putting myself through it


I'm happily single now but always would put myself through it so my OH didn't miss out but I'm done now. I also think of the environmental impact. So my next boyfriend needs to;

love dogs 
Hate flying

or he ain't coming in.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> I'm happily single now but always would put myself through it so my OH didn't miss out but I'm done now. I also think of the environmental impact. So my next boyfriend needs to;
> 
> love dogs
> Hate flying
> 
> or he ain't coming in.


Ah see it's not just boyfriends.

I have 3 sisters.....


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> Ah see it's not just boyfriends.
> 
> I have 3 sisters.....


Oh I'm lucky my sister I holiday with doesn't like flying either. And she enjoys holidays with boxers which is a niche market.


----------



## Nonnie

Arent they working on various RNA vaccines? No way i would have that.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Arent they working on various RNA vaccines? No way i would have that.


Why?


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I've been thinking about the subject of holidays.
> 
> I find going on holiday extremely stressful. We usually go abroad and I detest flying, so that puts a dampener on the whole experience. The packing stresses me out, the travel to the airport stresses me out. Worrying about the cats stresses me out. While I'm away, worrying about the flight back stresses me out. I'm fairly laid back normally, but holidays bring out a monstrous side to me. The best bit is getting back to my house
> 
> Is it just me who is glad I don't have to worry about all those things at the moment and for the foreseeable?
> 
> I think I'm turning into a hermit.


I think that's why I never want to holiday abroad, I'd be constantly thinking about the plane journey back, much prefer the UK where I only have to worry about terrible drivers 

Me and OH were talking about going to a self catering place for a few days, take a load of wipes. When we get there we'd open all windows and door and wear a mask while we cleaned surfaces then sit outside for a bit. We think that should be good enough. Though don't think we've worked out what to do about bedding and sofas etc


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> Why?


There are currently no RNA based vaccines on the market - with this one being rushed out and not given the same amount of research that other vaccines get, i would not be happy to have one as i would not be confident that enough would be know about possible side and long term effects.


----------



## Jobeth

HarlequinCat said:


> Me and OH were talking about going to a self catering place for a few days, take a load of wipes. When we get there we'd open all windows and door and wear a mask while we cleaned surfaces then sit outside for a bit. We think that should be good enough. Though don't think we've worked out what to do about bedding and sofas etc


The holiday cottage that I'm going to sent details of what they are doing so I'm fine with going away.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> There are currently no RNA based vaccines on the market - with this one being rushed out and not given the same amount of research that other vaccines get, i would not be happy to have one as i would not be confident that enough would be know about possible side and long term effects.


Fair enough. At the risk of being really naive, wouldn't they make sure it was safe first? Or do you think they would bypass that in order to be the ones given tonnes of money by countries around the world.

Oh, hang on...


----------



## MilleD

Jobeth said:


> View attachment 445339
> 
> The holiday cottage that I'm going to sent details of what they are doing so I'm fine with going away.


A shame they have had to remove all that stuff, but safe is best.

Just get yourself a game of Uno. Sorted


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> Fair enough. At the risk of being really naive, wouldn't they make sure it was safe first? Or do you think they would bypass that in order to be the ones given tonnes of money by countries around the world.
> 
> Oh, hang on...


Ultimately, its a rush job. Vaccines can take years, sometimes even longer, to develop and test. As there are no other RNA vaccines on the market, i would certainly have concerns that steps had been bypassed and that the safety of the vaccine might be questionable - especially as it could mean companies missing out on profits if others beat them to it.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> Which is why I asked:
> 
> I do not know WHO is normally entitled to a flu jab, and if this will be in addition to, or instead of, regular flu jabs.


'They' dont know yet whether the vaccine will be given with the regular 'flu jab, or will have to be given separately. I'm presuming one may interfere with the other if given together. But from this we are presuming the vaccine will be ready at the same time as 'flu jabs, and that may not be the case. Just my thinking.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> I think it would be as well as. I'm asthmatic so am entitled to a free flu vaccine but you can pay for one if your not. I shouldn't think initially the government will have enough for everyone if they do find a vaccine.


DH was advised to have the flu jab before starting his chemo so it made sense for me to have one too as I would be in close contact with him.

I don't qualify for one on the NHS so had one at my local Boots - cost £12 I think.

He will be offered the Covid one too in time I guess, so again I'll pay for me and our son to have them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> I think that's why I never want to holiday abroad, I'd be constantly thinking about the plane journey back, much prefer the UK where I only have to worry about terrible drivers
> 
> Me and OH were talking about going to a self catering place for a few days, take a load of wipes. When we get there we'd open all windows and door and wear a mask while we cleaned surfaces then sit outside for a bit. We think that should be good enough. Though don't think we've worked out what to do about bedding and sofas etc


You can buy anti bac fabric sprays (Dettol do one I think) and we always take our own throws, bedding and pillows. Now I'd take towels and t-towels too.

We holiday in the UK and Jack comes with us so it would be nice to book a short break somewhere with a view to just chill out somewhere else for a change. Probably not until Spring now though as DH is still vulnerable.

I only fly to visit my sister, niece and great niece in Dom Rep and travel alone.

I'm edgy until I'm through security then watch avidly for the Gate number so I can head there immediately. Once there I can relax completely.

I love take off and landing but the 8 hours in between (apart from meals) are boring so I sleep a lot 

Coming home I hate goodbyes so I check in and go straight through cos I always cry when I leave my sister as I know it will be ages before I see her again


----------



## ForestWomble

Nonnie said:


> There are currently no RNA based vaccines on the market - with this one being rushed out and not given the same amount of research that other vaccines get, i would not be happy to have one as i would not be confident that enough would be know about possible side and long term effects.


What is RNA?


----------



## Cully

ForestWomble said:


> What is RNA?


ribonucleic acid. Bet you wished you hadn't asked now.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> ribonucleic acid. Bet you wished you hadn't asked now.


Thank you for answering ........ unfortunately the answer means nothing


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

'


----------



## Cully

I prefer my glass half full!


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Cully said:


> I prefer my glass half full!





Cully said:


> I prefer my glass half full!


Yes, me too but they are not going to release a vaccine until it's proven to be safe and effective but I read a lot of comments from people who worry about it being a rush job.
Two other promising bits of news this week. The Antibody therapy will be soon going into human trials and another shows that a protein treatment via nebuliser cut the odds of severe disease by 79%.


----------



## Cully

MissMiloKitty said:


> Yes, me too but they are not going to release a vaccine until it's proven to be safe and effective but I read a lot of comments from people who worry about it being a rush job.
> Two other promising bits of news this week. The Antibody therapy will be soon going into human trials and another shows that a protein treatment via nebuliser cut the odds of severe disease by 79%.


Yes I like that not only are they trying to produce a vaccine but also to find treatment to lessen the severity of those cases most affected. Some patients have been left with dreadful, possibly life long problems physically, which may not have happened if we had effective treatments earlier.


----------



## Arny

And then there are those that believe there will never be a vaccine since they haven't managed to develop one for other coronavirus'.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Arny said:


> And then there are those that believe there will never be a vaccine since they haven't managed to develop one for other coronavirus'.


SARS wasn't around long enough and there was no one left to test it on. The other Coronaviruses are mild and there are many other cold viruses such as Rhinovirus, so making a vaccine for all of those viruses isn't really feasible.

I do believe that there will be an effective treatment and it could well be already out there being used to treat something else.
The antibody therapy looks promising I think.


----------



## Arny

MissMiloKitty said:


> I do believe that there will be an effective treatment and it could well be already out there being used to treat something else.


I too think this will be the real breakthrough rather than focus on hope of a vaccine.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> You can buy anti bac fabric sprays (Dettol do one I think) and we always take our own throws, bedding and pillows. Now I'd take towels and t-towels too.
> 
> We holiday in the UK and Jack comes with us so it would be nice to book a short break somewhere with a view to just chill out somewhere else for a change. Probably not until Spring now though as DH is still vulnerable.
> 
> I only fly to visit my sister, niece and great niece in Dom Rep and travel alone.
> 
> I'm edgy until I'm through security then watch avidly for the Gate number so I can head there immediately. Once there I can relax completely.
> 
> I love take off and landing but the 8 hours in between (apart from meals) are boring so I sleep a lot
> 
> Coming home I hate goodbyes so I check in and go straight through cos I always cry when I leave my sister as I know it will be ages before I see her again


Oh great, I'll keep an eye out for the dettol, thanks. We usually don't bother with our own pillows etc, but after this it does make you think more about others germs, so we'll have to start doing that now.


----------



## Magyarmum

My friends who had planned to move permanently to Hungary in April, but couldn't because Hungary closed the borders finally made it on Wednesday!

They have to stay in quarantine for two weeks and have to have this notice on the front gate of the MIL's house (next to the one which says "beware of the dog")

They've been told the police will call round to check whether they've obeyed the order.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Arny said:


> I too think this will be the real breakthrough rather than focus on hope of a vaccine.


They can focus on both.


----------



## Arny

MissMiloKitty said:


> They can focus on both.


I meant the public.
I don't think giving people false hope that a vaccine with be here in September (from the media or the pharmaceutical companies, whoever it came from) is helpful where as if people knew there were at least more effective treatments than at the start of this maybe they would be less fearful. 
I don't know.


----------



## Calvine

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...-obesity-in-england/ar-BB179Pem?ocid=msedgdhp

But be sure to make use of the ''Eat out to help out'' scheme vouchers in August (before you go on a diet).


----------



## Happy Paws2

We have just both given an appointment for the normal flu jab the end of September.


----------



## Siskin

I was having a look at yesterday's figures around the world for the virus on this site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The new cases for the US are horrifyingly large, perhaps the silly lot that won't wear masks might stop and think a bit although I doubt it somehow, civil liberties and all that

What is a bit alarming is the new cases for Spain. It has been reported that there had been a new outbreak of the virus in Spain a week or two ago, looks like it's getting serious. The main area of infection is Catalonia apparently. According to my niece who lives in the Catalonia region it's to the north of where they are, but I do worry about them. Perhaps @Jaf knows a bit more?


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> I was having a look at yesterday's figures around the world for the virus on this site
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
> 
> The new cases for the US are horrifyingly large, perhaps the silly lot that won't wear masks might stop and think a bit although I doubt it somehow, civil liberties and all that
> 
> What is a bit alarming is the new cases for Spain. It has been reported that there had been a new outbreak of the virus in Spain a week or two ago, looks like it's getting serious. The main area of infection is Catalonia apparently. According to my niece who lives in the Catalonia region it's to the north of where they are, but I do worry about them. Perhaps @Jaf knows a bit more?


https://www.catalannews.com/society...n-catalonia-daily-figures-explained-in-graphs

*Coronavirus in Catalonia: daily figures explained in graphs*

https://english.elpais.com/society/...ly-rise-in-coronavirus-cases-since-may-8.html

*Spain records highest daily rise in coronavirus cases since May 8*


----------



## Jaf

I suppose pockets of infections in cities like Madrid and Barcelona are to be expected. Or the poor fruit pickers who work and live together.

Now there is 300 people in a nightclub in a small town, Totana Murcia. So far 90 of them have tested positive. The town has been closed off. This would seem to show that the virus is very easily transmitted after all. I had relaxed a bit as there had been no cases for weeks near here. 

I think the nightclubbers will have all taken off their masks, as allowed, as they will have been drinking.


----------



## rona

We have a local-ish pub with a mini outbreak, well, it's mini at the moment. I don't think they have found everyone yet


----------



## lorilu

We've been 'open' for about a month now and the positive test numbers are climbing again. The rate is right back up to where it was in the beginning, in fact, according to the article I just read.


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> We've been 'open' for about a month now and the positive test numbers are climbing again. The rate is right back up to where it was in the beginning, in fact, according to the article I just read.


I still think they lifted the lockdown to early on lots of things, I known we need to get back to work but other things are to risky and I still think that masks should be worn as soon as you step outside and stay on till you get home.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think that masks should be worn as soon as you step outside and stay on till you get home.


What, even if you are travelling in your own car and then walking in the countryside with no one within 100yds?


----------



## Lurcherlad

I actually ventured into the local farm shop today as everyone was masked up (staff wore visors and gloves) and SD/sanitiser was set up inside.

When I asked the cashier (early 20’s?) if she was happier seeing all customers masked, her response was:

“not concerned really - we’re at the end of it now” 

Er no! I wish. No wonder so many are flouting the guidelines if people really believe this 

People were masked up in shops today but people in the bars/restaurants weren’t even a metre apart (with no mask) from what I could see.

I think it’s just a matter of time ...... :Nailbiting


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> I actually ventured into the local farm shop today as everyone was masked up (staff wore visors and gloves) and SD/sanitiser was set up inside.
> 
> When I asked the cashier (early 20's?) if she was happier seeing all customers masked, her response was:
> 
> "not concerned really - we're at the end of it now"
> 
> Er no! I wish. No wonder so many are flouting the guidelines if people really believe this
> 
> People were masked up in shops today but people in the bars/restaurants weren't even a metre apart (with no mask) from what I could see.
> 
> I think it's just a matter of time ...... :Nailbiting


It's quite sad about face masks. Have mentioned before about going to the local convenience shop because people have been pretty good social distancing compared to Tescos. The staff are really friendly. As soon as the announcement was made the owner was reminding everyone about face masks. However I think as its a convenience shop and people just pop in;cigarettes and alcohol seem popular and in and out. It's 50:50 mask wearers. I know people have hidden disabilities, I know some people probably didn't think about going to the shop on initial outings. Might pop in to pick up a drink on hot day for example. Shop owner says its not something they can enforce and the shop is small, so social distancing was really easy to enforce. I think a bit of conformity I guess helped too. This though, they said it's harder. It's a lot of younger ones buying bits and bobs I have been told. He has the same regular customers telling him they have forgotten their masks time and time again. He's also had more people yesterday try and buy a lot of shopping, so probably refusing to wear masks and thinking it's OK there! I hope it improves for him, as they have been really good themselves wearing masks on the shop floor, sanitising hands etc, plus the door handle inside and out regularly.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I was in a shop today looking in a glass case, and this woman came up directly to the side of me not a cm from my elbow then bent down so her head was near my bum, while looking in the cabinet. I just don't belive how oblivious some are, even though everyone is wearing a mask I still like to keep my distance. I should have let off a silent but deadly . I had to walk away. 

My OH said later that she tried on a necklace, and to look in the mirror she took her mask off.... why? :Facepalm. Surely she remembers what her face would look like with the jewellery on


----------



## Lurcherlad

Can’t work out why some UK people who jetted off to Spain a week ago for a holiday are bleating because the situation has changed and they will have to quarantine for 14 days now on their return.

They took a gamble and lost, quite frankly.

The rules and guidelines have been changing all the way through the pandemic (no crystal ball available sadly ) so it shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, surely?

And no, it’s not enough to whine “it’s not fair, I’ve been SDing on my holiday, honest”!

Ok, we’ll trust you’re telling the truth


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> What, even if you are travelling in your own car and then walking in the countryside with no one within 100yds?


Not in a car that's the same as been in doors, I was really thinking for built up area's.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Can't work out why some UK people who jetted off to Spain a week ago for a holiday are bleating because the situation has changed and they will have to quarantine for 14 days now on their return.
> 
> They took a gamble and lost, quite frankly.
> 
> The rules and guidelines have been changing all the way through the pandemic (no crystal ball available sadly ) so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise, surely?
> 
> And no, it's not enough to whine "it's not fair, I've been SDing on my holiday, honest"!
> 
> Ok, we'll trust you're telling the truth


Also the government are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is a risk going abroad at the moment. You could end up quarantined in your hotel.


----------



## JoanneF

They were talking on tv this morning about why it's the whole of Spain that is affected, when the outbreaks have just been in isolated areas - I certainly wouldn't be assuming that visitors hadn't travelled around when they were there.

I really don't have any sympathy, people knew things could change.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Can't work out why some UK people who jetted off to Spain a week ago for a holiday are bleating because the situation has changed and they will have to quarantine for 14 days now on their return.
> 
> They took a gamble and lost, quite frankly.
> 
> The rules and guidelines have been changing all the way through the pandemic (no crystal ball available sadly ) so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise, surely?
> 
> And no, it's not enough to whine "it's not fair, I've been SDing on my holiday, honest"!
> 
> Ok, we'll trust you're telling the truth [/QUOTE
> 
> *I agree, I think anyone going abroad are taking a risk as things are changing all the time, it's no good complaining if they do.
> 
> This year just stay at home and have a look at our beautiful country*.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Also the government are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is a risk going abroad at the moment. You could end up quarantined in your hotel.


In Hungary the UK is classified as a "yellow" country which means anyone arriving from the UK has to go into 14 day quarantine and the police come round to where you're staying to check!.

http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...countries-classified-as-green-yellow-and-red/

*Here are the new international travel restrictions relating to countries classified as green, yellow and red*


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not in a car that's the same as been in doors, I was really thinking for built up area's.


TBH even in an average street walking past someone you have a pretty low risk of catching it. I dont think masks are really needed just for passing someone on the street.
I do agree about very busy areas. I think I would wear a mask if I was walking down a high street that was filled with people.


----------



## Bisbow

catz4m8z said:


> TBH even in an average street walking past someone you have a pretty low risk of catching it. I dont think masks are really needed just for passing someone on the street.
> I do agree about very busy areas. I think I would wear a mask if I was walking down a high street that was filled with people.


Maye I am being paranoid but I think masks should be worn where ever you are likely to meet people

The virus can hang in the air for a while apparently so why take chances


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> TBH even in an average street walking past someone you have a pretty low risk of catching it. I dont think masks are really needed just for passing someone on the street.
> I do agree about very busy areas. I think I would wear a mask if I was walking down a high street that was filled with people.


I put mine on as I go out. It doesn't matter how small the risk is, others are taking a risk of passing it on to me not wearing one. I do have health problems I need to be careful around other people, I can't stay in forever.

A little thought goes a long way.


----------



## Gemmaa

I saw someone vaping early the other morning, and the sun was behind them so it really highlighted it...I know it's different to normal breathing, but it left a massive trail, spread around quite a bit, and hung in the air for aaaaaages.
Can definitely see the sense in wearing a mask in crowded places, outside.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> I put mine on as I go out. It doesn't matter how small the risk is, others are taking a risk of passing it on to me not wearing one. I do have health problems I need to be careful around other people, I can't stay in forever.
> 
> A little thought goes a long way.


Quite agree as I have health problems as well
I would rather be paranoid and safe than blasé and catch it
After all if I catch it. it may be the last thing I ever do


----------



## Jaf

I’ve just been reading a post by a local woman that has a holiday rental and cafe business. She’s decided that the virus is not at all contagious and is more worried about the affect on mental health. I suppose that because she and her children don’t have any physical health conditions she’s just completely unconcerned. I feel angry that anyone can just dismiss so much misery.


----------



## rona

Jaf said:


> I've just been reading a post by a local woman that has a holiday rental and cafe business. She's decided that the virus is not at all contagious and is more worried about the affect on mental health. I suppose that because she and her children don't have any physical health conditions she's just completely unconcerned. I feel angry that anyone can just dismiss so much misery.


This is what worries me and why I still won't go shopping, eat out or going away, apart from the little place that I know the owner.
I just don't trust anyone else to safeguard my welfare. Seen too many who just don't care

Have enough trouble when I have to catch other peoples dogs


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jaf said:


> I've just been reading a post by a local woman that has a holiday rental and cafe business. She's decided that the virus is not at all contagious and is more worried about the affect on mental health. I suppose that because she and her children don't have any physical health conditions she's just completely unconcerned. I feel angry that anyone can just dismiss so much misery.


That's the problem to many self centered and uncaring people around.


----------



## Jobeth

Current Government advice is that I don’t require PPE at work, even when the 2m distance can’t be maintained, so I’m safer going to the shops.


----------



## Gemmaa

Really impressed with Morrisons this morning, all of their staff were wearing face masks, and to be fair to the public, there were only a couple of people who didn't bother .


----------



## rona

Gemmaa said:


> Really impressed with Morrisons this morning, all of their staff were wearing face masks, and to be fair to the public, there were only a couple of people who didn't bother .


OR

There was a couple with health issues


----------



## Gemmaa

rona said:


> OR
> 
> There was a couple with health issues


I'm not judging anyone, just happy to see so much compliance and no abuse to staff.


----------



## willa

So I’ve booked a 45min hygiene session at dentist. £40 extra for the PPE. How can cleaning need that much PPE


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> So I've booked a 45min hygiene session at dentist. £40 extra for the PPE. How can cleaning need that much PPE


Seems excessive to me.

My hygienist wears gloves and a visor ordinarily.

Found this:

quote
*Dentists reopen today amid fears patients will face extra fees to pay for £25 PPE gowns and gloves needed for each appointment*

*Dentist kit post-covid can include perspex visors, gowns and shoe coverings*
*Some practices may require patients to store their coat in a sterilised box*
*'Each gown is £5 and must be thrown away after use; our PPE cost per patient is £25,' said Dr Mervyn Druian of The London Centre for Cosmetic Dentistry *
*Fee may be applied in private dentistry - but planned increase in NHS charges was shelved by government in April due to covid*
*
unquote*


----------



## SbanR

willa said:


> So I've booked a 45min hygiene session at dentist. £40 extra for the PPE. How can cleaning need that much PPE


I have an appointment next week with my dentist for extraction of a molar. YIKES!!!:Bag:Bag:Bag
The NHS fee is £22.70


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> So I've booked a 45min hygiene session at dentist. £40 extra for the PPE. How can cleaning need that much PPE


I went to the dentist last week and no mention of PPE charges but the price had gone up 20% since end of last year!
Edit to say and that was with less clean and polish as they would only do that for the front teeth to prevent 'stuff' flying everywhere.


----------



## willa

My brother currently in Spain is flying home on Friday. He’ll be coming back to my parents house to quarantine for 2 weeks.
Does that mean my parents have to quarantine aswell ? Even if they keep themselves apart from him !


----------



## willa

Arny said:


> I went to the dentist last week and no mention of PPE charges but the price had gone up 20% since end of last year!
> Edit to say and that was with less clean and polish as they would only do that for the front teeth to prevent 'stuff' flying everywhere.


Think I've got the ultrasonic scaler being used Seen online counts as an aerosol generating procedure . Honestly the PPE they wear is like what surgeons wear


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> I have an appointment next week with my dentist for extraction of a molar. YIKES!!!:Bag:Bag:Bag
> The NHS fee is £22.70


You might want to check that. That amount is band A that doesn't include extractions.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> You might want to check that. That amount is band A that doesn't include extractions.


Possibly more then.
The dentist told me £22.70 for a filling. Later when I spoke to the person who answered the phone and mentioned extraction, she said it was the same price.


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> My brother currently in Spain is flying home on Friday. He'll be coming back to my parents house to quarantine for 2 weeks.
> Does that mean my parents have to quarantine aswell ? Even if they keep themselves apart from him !


They probably should especially if they're using the same areas in the house even if separately ie kitchen and bathroom.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

willa said:


> My brother currently in Spain is flying home on Friday. He'll be coming back to my parents house to quarantine for 2 weeks.
> Does that mean my parents have to quarantine aswell ? Even if they keep themselves apart from him !


 No your parents won`t have to quarantine unless of course they are also coming back from Spain. While your brother must stay in the house for 14 days your parents will be free to go out as normal.


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> Think I've got the ultrasonic scaler being used Seen online counts as an aerosol generating procedure . Honestly the PPE they wear is like what surgeons wear


Mine was manual but this hygienist likes trying to rip my teeth out anyway


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> I have an appointment next week with my dentist for extraction of a molar. YIKES!!!:Bag:Bag:Bag
> The NHS fee is £22.70


https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-qu...t-is-included-in-each-nhs-dental-band-charge/


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-qu...t-is-included-in-each-nhs-dental-band-charge/


Under the Hungarian NHS, dental treatment is free.

I go privately because you can normally get an appointment within a couple of days and on my last visit for an Xray, a filling, plus a scale and polish I paid £40.


----------



## Lurcherlad

3dogs2cats said:


> No your parents won`t have to quarantine unless of course they are also coming back from Spain. While your brother must stay in the house for 14 days your parents will be free to go out as normal.


What if they've picked up the virus? Surely they could pass it to the parents who could then pass it on in their community?

Doesn't seem effective to me.


----------



## Calvine

Jaf said:


> I think the nightclubbers will have all taken off their masks, as allowed, as they will have been drinking.


They do this on public transport too. . . get on the tube/bus dutifully wearing a mask then remove it for the duration as they want to eat, drink or talk on their phones.


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-qu...t-is-included-in-each-nhs-dental-band-charge/


Thank you.
I see from that that even a filling is band 2; I wonder why the dentist gave me the charge for band 1.
Anyhoo, its Not going to be pleasant:Bag:Bag:Bag


----------



## StormyThai

Lurcherlad said:


> What if they've picked up the virus? Surely they could pass it to the parents who could then pass it on in their community?
> 
> Doesn't seem effective to me.


I agree with you...personally I think that people staying in the same house should have to isolate for at least 7 days. Otherwise it's a pretty crap quarantine IMHO

However, this is the governments advise:
*Within your accommodation*
The people you're staying with do not need to stay at home, unless they travelled with you.

If you're staying in a hotel or guest house, you must stay away from others who didn't travel with you, so it's important that you don't use shared areas such as bars, restaurants, health clubs and sports facilities. Stay 2 metres apart from other people staying there at all times.

It's important to avoid as much contact with other people as possible in your home in order to reduce the risk of transmitting coronavirus. You should stay in a well-ventilated room with a window to the outside that can be opened, separate from other people in your home.

Because obviously the virus will only go out the open window...


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Lurcherlad said:


> What if they've picked up the virus? Surely they could pass it to the parents who could then pass it on in their community?
> 
> Doesn't seem effective to me.


Willa asked if her parents would also _have _to quarantine which I took to mean are they obliged to by law, therefore my answer is purely based on what was asked.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I'm sure it says if anyone in a household may have corona then everyone in that household has to quarantine. So anyone in quarantine after a holiday would have to do the same.

Its common sense really, just so there's no risk to anyone else


----------



## Lurcherlad

3dogs2cats said:


> Willa asked if her parents would also _have _to quarantine which I took to mean are they obliged to by law, therefore my answer is purely based on what was asked.


Fair enough.

And my response was based on my opinion if those are the official guidelines


----------



## lorilu

I was happy to see that my local grocery store has FINALLY started to enforce the mask wearing law. It's been in place since early April (state law) and then a month after the law was passed another law was passed allowing retailers and other businesses the right to enforce it.

I suppose it's because we've had a major increase in cases since the state opened back up. Tourists are showing up, even though most of the things that bring tourism here are closed this year.

The worst part is going to be when the college kids come back. We have two colleges here, with a total of close to 10,000 students. How I am dreading that.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

HarlequinCat said:


> I'm sure it says if anyone in a household may have corona then everyone in that household has to quarantine. So anyone in quarantine after a holiday would have to do the same.
> 
> Its common sense really, just so there's no risk to anyone else


The rules for self isolation due to someone in the household developing covid symptoms are different to those that apply to quarantine on arrival from Spain ( or any other country not currently on `green` list) The household where a person is staying while in quarantine does not have to stay indoors, only the person(s) who have travelled abroad must quarantine. Obviously if anyone in that household develops covid symptoms than the SI rules would apply. 
As far as I can understand those quarantining are not entitled to SSP, the government however are urging employers to be flexible and employees should not face penalties for abiding by the law, anyone who may face financial difficulties due to being in quarantine may be able to claim UC. This in my opinion is where problems may lay and why it it important that the difference between SI due to covid symptoms and quarantining is clear. If households think they must SI because someone has travelled back from abroad unless they have sympathetic employers they might find themselves in difficulties.


----------



## willa

£165 for an hours dental hygiene appointment. Just spat out my coffee


----------



## SbanR

willa said:


> £165 for an hours dental hygiene appointment. Just spat out my coffee


:Woot:Woot:Woot


----------



## willa

SbanR said:


> :Woot:Woot:Woot


The extra PPE is £40 . And it's in the City of London .
But still


----------



## Jesthar

I had my (postponed for three months) six month checkup a my dentist last week, and as a bonus she got rid of a bit of surface staining on my front teeth too. Under £50, no extra PPE charge.

The already pricy hair salon where I have my hair trimmed once in a blue moon, though, is slapping on an extra £40 per appointment for PPE. I can wait...


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Phantom of The Opera in the West End to permanently close.

"_Theatres in Southampton, Bromsgrove and Leicester have already had to permanently close their doors."_


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Coronavirus: M&S to announce hundreds of job cuts this week

"Across the economy, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been cut by leading companies during the last four months, with notable examples including *British Airways*, *BP*, *Royal Mail* and the Upper Crust-owner *SSP Group"*


----------



## kimthecat

I havent been for a check up at my dentist for a couple of years. I hope they havent dropped me from their list as a patient.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Thousands of people with dementia dying or deteriorating - not just from coronavirus as isolation takes its toll

"The charity thinks these increased numbers of deaths from dementia are resulting partly from increased cognitive impairment caused by isolation, the reduction in essential care as family carers cannot visit, and the onset of depression as people with dementia do not understand why loved ones are no longer visiting, causing them to lose skills and independence, such as the ability to speak or even stopping eating and drinking."


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Please just let this utter madness end.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jesthar said:


> I had my (postponed for three months) six month checkup a my dentist last week, and as a bonus she got rid of a bit of surface staining on my front teeth too. Under £50, no extra PPE charge.
> 
> The already pricy hair salon where I have my hair trimmed once in a blue moon, though, is slapping on an extra £40 per appointment for PPE. I can wait...


I've been cutting husband and son's hair since lockdown as well as my own (DH helps with the back).

Tbh I'm happy enough with the results so don't think I'll bother going back to my hairdresser. I wasn't always entirely happy with the cut anyway so I might as well save myself the money 

OH will also stick with me but DS will probably dump me eventually


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been cutting husband and son's hair since lockdown as well as my own (DH helps with the back).
> 
> Tbh I'm happy enough with the results so don't think I'll bother going back to my hairdresser. I wasn't always entirely happy with the cut anyway so I might as well save myself the money
> 
> OH will also stick with me but DS will probably dump me eventually


I cut my own hair for many years without any adverse comments from anyone, but decided I wanted a change and made an appointment at Toni and Guy who charged some exorbitant amount for what I thought was a simple straightforward cut. Within three days, several people asked me, ''Have you been cutting your own hair?''. So, back to cutting my own.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> £40 per appointment for PPE.


 I would never have thought of that . . . outrageous! What do they provide for £40? I imagine they have screens between chairs to keep customers separate (they look to have in the numerous nail bars near here, but I never thought you had to pay for them).


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I would never have thought of that . . . outrageous! What do they provide for £40? I imagine they have screens between chairs to keep customers separate (they look to have in the numerous nail bars near here, but I never thought you had to pay for them).


i don't know how much extra or even if dental surgeons charge for PPE in my part of Hungary.

I do know though from a friend who is the administrator for a large group of dental practices that the cost of providing PPE is exorbitant and a nightmare to source. The regulations surrounding their use is also very rigorous and regularly inspected. Failure to meet the standards results in a fine or even closure.

Until the lockdown was relaxed a few weeks ago dental surgeons were only allowed to work for 3 hours a day. They're now working full time but still have to provide protection for staff and patients.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> i don't know how much extra or even if dental surgeons charge for PPE in my part of Hungary.
> 
> I do know though from a friend who is the administrator for a large group of dental practices that the cost of providing PPE is exorbitant and a nightmare to source. The regulations surrounding their use is also very rigorous and regularly inspected. Failure to meet the standards results in a fine or even closure.
> 
> Until the lockdown was relaxed a few weeks ago dental surgeons were only allowed to work for 3 hours a day. They're now working full time but still have to provide protection for staff and patients.


Having my eyes tested tomorrow, so I will be interested to see if there's an extra charge with them; tho' I'm not sure what the normal charge is.


----------



## Calvine

I meant to say. re. the optician: I booked online, and I am fairly sure it did not even mention that customers should wear a mask. I'd have expected it in red, or bold at least, which I am fairly sure I would have spotted.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> I meant to say. re. the optician: I booked online, and I am fairly sure it did not even mention that customers should wear a mask. I'd have expected it in red, or bold at least, which I am fairly sure I would have spotted.


Hmmmm.... Unless that's the reason you need the eye test of course, you couldn't see it! Maybe that was the eye test. Who turns up in a mask, who doesn't?

Apologises. Will get my coat!


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> Hmmmm.... Unless that's the reason you need the eye test of course, you couldn't see it! Maybe that was the eye test. Who turns up in a mask, who doesn't?
> 
> Apologises. Will get my coat!


 LIke I said, if it had been in red or bold, I would have noticed it!! Actually, it's my distance glasses which I am replacing, but I do tend to skim thro' stuff which doesn't look too interesting.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve just spoken to my hairdressers and booked an appointment for Friday next week. I need to take a mask and wait outside until the lady comes to fetch me. It’s upstairs but that will be ok as they have good handrails and I’m fine on steps. Will be a relief to get it cut, it looks ok tbh as my hair is very straight and it was cut well when she did it last at the beginning of March.

On a side note.
Went up to see my consultant yesterday for a post op assessment of the wound which he said had healed very well. He also sent me for a chest X-ray. I will be having these every 3 months for the next few years as this kind of cancer if it does spread heads for the lungs. Very pleased to report that there was no signs of anything untoward, another phew what a relief moment.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> Having my eyes tested tomorrow, so I will be interested to see if there's an extra charge with them; tho' I'm not sure what the normal charge is.


I had to go to the opticians a few weeks ago as I hurt my eye. They were very good everything was super clean. She wore a mask as did I no problems no extra cost.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> On a side note.
> Went up to see my consultant yesterday for a post op assessment of the wound which he said had healed very well. He also sent me for a chest X-ray. I will be having these every 3 months for the next few years as this kind of cancer if it does spread heads for the lungs. Very pleased to report that there was no signs of anything untoward, another phew what a relief moment.


Great news


----------



## Magyarmum

Brilliant!


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 445820


Couldn't make it up could you.


----------



## Calvine

The ''new normal'' has me foxed. I definitely read that it was now a legal requirement to wear a face covering in shops, but that some shops will not enforce the rule??


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> The ''new normal'' has me foxed. I definitely read that it was now a legal requirement to wear a face covering in shops, but that some shops will not enforce the rule??


Shop staff can't legally enforce the rule and have been told not to approach customers because they could be exempt.
Shop staff have to call the police if they believe someone is flouting the rules and then the police will issue the fine.

Very convoluted way of doing things but thankfully the majority are complying where I am anyway.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> The ''new normal'' has me foxed. I definitely read that it was now a legal requirement to wear a face covering in shops, but that some shops will not enforce the rule??


I think shops are simply trying to avoid confrontation with non complying customers. There have been some very nasty incidents with idiots taking a very aggressive attitude towards a reminder to wear a mask. 
Shops shouldn't have to put up with that kind of behaviour. police can't be expected to attend every such incident so shops prefer not to risk provocation and hope most customers will comply. Understandable I think.


----------



## Boxer123

Just had a message from my doctors that cases are rising again. I do wish people would be sensible.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Just had a message from my doctors that cases are rising again. * I do wish people would be sensible*.


Some people are just thoughtless or don't care.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Some people are just thoughtless or don't care.


https://xpatloop.com/channels/2020/...-8JW9rFfWTAL-FxfT2KQQarBMbRWFSXkS2BkyDNYi8RpI

*Hungarian Duo Fined For Not Wearing Masks On Plane*


----------



## Lurcherlad

A fine shouldn’t be the end if it, especially if they’ve actually infect others. 

If so, Assault, GBH or worse even, maybe?


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> A fine shouldn't be the end if it, especially if they've actually infect others.
> 
> If so, Assault, GBH or worse even, maybe?


Problem is, even if the non-mask wearers turn out to test posiive you can't guarantee it was that specific contact that passes the infection on.

Enforced indoors quarantine when they get wherever they are going, however, sounds fair.


----------



## MollySmith

First dog to test positive has died
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/07/first-dog-to-test-positive-for-covid-in-us-dies/


----------



## kimthecat

Got a letter cancelling my rheumatology appointment and changing it to a phone consultation. Can't see that going well. :Hilarious
What part of deaf don't they understand? 

Im relieved I don't have to go in person though , Emailed my consultants secretary and said can they email any questions?


----------



## Gemmaa

MollySmith said:


> First dog to test positive has died
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/07/first-dog-to-test-positive-for-covid-in-us-dies/


Mmm, after experiencing Lymphoma with Freddie last year, I would say the dog most definitely died with CV19, not because of it...in my non-professional opinion.
Fred only lasted 3 months after the first lumps appeared, and he had coughing and breathing problems at the end.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

MollySmith said:


> First dog to test positive has died
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/07/first-dog-to-test-positive-for-covid-in-us-dies/


I think it was the Lymphoma that ultimately killed him.


----------



## O2.0

This made me laugh more than it should have :Woot


----------



## Magyarmum

Another similar one!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Like with me on here I've people I feel are on-line friends, OH has some on his one of them has a BMW, he found a fault with it during lockdown the show room he had it from stayed closed until other week so he couldn't get it sorted out, he took his car in and because it's warranty ran out during lockdown and he couldn't take the car in they till charged him £180 just to run a diagnosis on it. Well done BMW.


----------



## rona

I've looked on here for my area and the surrounding 4 areas and in all 5 there were only 2 cases recorded Thursday to Friday.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate

Some places must be being hit really hard


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Got a letter cancelling my rheumatology appointment and changing it to a phone consultation. Can't see that going well. :Hilarious


I have a diabetes phone consultation, total waste of time (imho)
How can she tell if my neuropathy has worsened without using the Doppler? No point in asking me, I can't feel them, and she can't find a pulse without the Doppler 
Shell ask me a load of questions, which, based on last phone consultation, I won't be able to answer, but, if I were there in person, she wouldn't have to ask, because she could be hands on
Don't get me wrong, I understand covid etc
But
Some things, like major organ problems, cancer, diabetes etc need to be face to face and hands on
Also wondering if my mammogram will be postponed this year, that, of all things, I hope not


----------



## lorilu

Our cases continue on the upswing since 're-opening'. And they are getting closer and closer to home. Please everyone, never let your guard down.


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> I've looked on here for my area and the surrounding 4 areas and in all 5 there were only 2 cases recorded Thursday to Friday.
> https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate
> 
> Some places must be being hit really hard


I think there are pockets where it is really high especially in the Midlands and some parts of the north of England.

I am a little sceptical of the positive test result figures being meaningful as it has been shown that the test produces 30 - 50% false negatives plus 20% of people can be asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms they may not even realise it.

I am following the data produced on the covid 19 Zoe website for more useful data (in my opinion) as it doesn't just reply on the small ONS sampling data set and swab testing positive results.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

They also provide data by local region but I think you have to register for that. For those that have Twitter, Tim Spector has some useful and interesting tweets about the data being gathered.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> I have a diabetes phone consultation, total waste of time (imho)
> How can she tell if my neuropathy has worsened without using the Doppler? No point in asking me, I can't feel them, and she can't find a pulse without the Doppler
> Shell ask me a load of questions, which, based on last phone consultation, I won't be able to answer, but, if I were there in person, she wouldn't have to ask, because she could be hands on
> Don't get me wrong, I understand covid etc
> But
> Some things, like major organ problems, cancer, diabetes etc need to be face to face and hands on
> Also wondering if my mammogram will be postponed this year, that, of all things, I hope not


I really hope they dont postpone your mammo.
Ive done an email consultation with the consultant. Im relieved l didnt have to go in person this time but hope it doesnt become the new normal.


----------



## Cully

Down here in SE we have one of the highest number of cases but that includes those patients in the hospital in Ashford which has been a dedicated covid hospital, so it doesn't give a true picture of the number locally and it's hard to tell just how at risk we really are. It's very confusing.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I think less and less people are concerned about covid19. My OH went to a market today, he was talking to a stall holder he knows and heard people talking in general about how nobody they know has had it, that maybe its not as bad as they are being told.

It might be that down here the numbers are much lower than further north.


----------



## rona

kittih said:


> I think there are pockets where it is really high especially in the Midlands and some parts of the north of England.
> 
> I am a little sceptical of the positive test result figures being meaningful as it has been shown that the test produces 30 - 50% false negatives plus 20% of people can be asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms they may not even realise it.
> 
> I am following the data produced on the covid 19 Zoe website for more useful data (in my opinion) as it doesn't just reply on the small ONS sampling data set and swab testing positive results.
> 
> https://covid.joinzoe.com/data
> 
> They also provide data by local region but I think you have to register for that. For those that have Twitter, Tim Spector has some useful and interesting tweets about the data being gathered.


That site is giving a 0 return for an area I know for a fact has had at least 16 in the last week


----------



## Siskin

I had a face to face with my consultant this week, but all the appointments with the oncologist Dr in Cheltenham have been by phone apart from the first time I met him before lockdown.
I had a blood test at the GP surgery a few weeks ago, they seemed quite excited to see me when I arrived, I think they are bored.
I’m currently on quarterly chest X-rays from now on and a consultation afterwards with eitjer the Cheltenham doc or the consultant, they are taking it in turns, but whether I will actually speak to anyone face to face will be interesting if there is winter surge of covid.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Down here in SE we have one of the highest number of cases but that includes those patients in the hospital in Ashford which has been a dedicated covid hospital, so it doesn't give a true picture of the number locally and it's hard to tell just how at risk we really are. It's very confusing.


Ashford is frighteningly high, but is there still a lot of infections in your area?


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I had a face to face with my consultant this week, but all the appointments with the oncologist Dr in Cheltenham have been by phone apart from the first time I met him before lockdown.
> I had a blood test at the GP surgery a few weeks ago, they seemed quite excited to see me when I arrived, I think they are bored.
> I'm currently on quarterly chest X-rays from now on and a consultation afterwards with eitjer the Cheltenham doc or the consultant, they are taking it in turns, but whether I will actually speak to anyone face to face will be interesting if there is winter surge of covid.


It's a worrying time for most but for you, my friend and the thousands with other health issues it must be very scary.
I'm keeping my eye closely on local infections because my friend is out of pain and wants to get out and about a bit. I just hope it stays low here, only increased by 3 today.
Hope your area is relatively safe too


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Ashford is frighteningly high, but is there still a lot of infections in your area?


That's what I can't find out. I'd like to start going out but not if cases are increasing here too. It's not worth the risk, but I'm really getting sooooo fed up of living in a tiny flat.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> That's what I can't find out. I'd like to start going out but not if cases are increasing here too. It's not worth the risk, but I'm really getting sooooo fed up of living in a tiny flat.


The link I gave earlier https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate. If you click on LTLA next to the map, all the local areas are listed. Ashford is on there. You have to make a note of the number they give and then you can check against that every day, which should give you the daily number of cases.

At the moment Ashford is 1351


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I had a face to face with my consultant this week, but all the appointments with the oncologist Dr in Cheltenham have been by phone apart from the first time I met him before lockdown.
> I had a blood test at the GP surgery a few weeks ago, they seemed quite excited to see me when I arrived, I think they are bored.
> I'm currently on quarterly chest X-rays from now on and a consultation afterwards with eitjer the Cheltenham doc or the consultant, they are taking it in turns, but whether I will actually speak to anyone face to face will be interesting if there is winter surge of covid.


I finally had an neurologist appointment last month, well June. It was late should have been Christmas time.

It was a telephone consultation. My next appointment they were on the ball. The same day receptionist/secretary phoned asking if I had an electronic device with chrome or safari for my next appointment. Which is yes. Letter arrived promptly for 6 week follow up, and its by video link beginning of January. So I do think that NHS are preparing, for a second wave in winter.

This was before the news spoke of it.

I am presuming most appointments they are more confident doing now over telephone/video. It's always been somewhat of an option but not used.

Am hoping with the tried and tested ways they have opened hospitals to out patients. This can still mean if there is a second wave. With government measures, it might not be as severe and things such as outpatient appointments can still go ahead.


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> The link I gave earlier https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate. If you click on LTLA next to the map, all the local areas are listed. Ashford is on there. You have to make a note of the number they give and then you can check against that every day, which should give you the daily number of cases.
> 
> At the moment Ashford is 1351


Thank you, I'll have a look at it later.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> It's a worrying time for most but for you, my friend and the thousands with other health issues it must be very scary.
> I'm keeping my eye closely on local infections because my friend is out of pain and wants to get out and about a bit. I just hope it stays low here, only increased by 3 today.
> Hope your area is relatively safe too


It seems to be, 212 for Cotswolds increased by 1 today. We're thinking of heading for Suffolk in a few weeks time so have started to check out East Suffolk which is a much bigger area and includes major towns such as Ipswich, Lowestoft and Felixstowe. So far 887 cases, again increased by 1.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> I finally had an neurologist appointment last month, well June. It was late should have been Christmas time.
> 
> It was a telephone consultation. My next appointment they were on the ball. The same day receptionist/secretary phoned asking if I had an electronic device with chrome or safari for my next appointment. Which is yes. Letter arrived promptly for 6 week follow up, and its by video link beginning of January. So I do think that NHS are preparing, for a second wave in winter.
> 
> This was before the news spoke of it.
> 
> I am presuming most appointments they are more confident doing now over telephone/video. It's always been somewhat of an option but not used.
> 
> Am hoping with the tried and tested ways they have opened hospitals to out patients. This can still mean if there is a second wave. With government measures, it might not be as severe and things such as outpatient appointments can still go ahead.


The nurses I spoke to when in hospital all said they expected a second wave as we go into autumn and were preparing for it


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 446062


----------



## rona

So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


----------



## Elles

rona said:


> So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


Ridiculous. Just wash hands, wear a mask and keep up with social distancing, while they work on a vaccine. How hard is it?

Selfish individuals want to lock up innocent people for getting older? Happy 50th.


----------



## Bisbow

Well, we will be staying in whatever are friend Boris says

We still do not think it is safe to wonder far yet and Tesco will keep delivering so we will stay put

If the younger people want to go to work etc, the best of luck to them


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Carl Heneghan, amongst many, is someone who has been challenging the harsh lockdown put in place by Boris Johnson. He is a Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine, Director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine and Director of Studies for the Evidence-Based Health Care Programme.

Covid cases in England aren't rising: here's why.

"_Inaccuracies in the data and poor interpretation will often lead to errors in decisions about imposing restrictions, particularly if these decisions are done in haste and the interpretation does not account for fluctuations in the rates of testing"._
_

_


----------



## samuelsmiles3

rona said:


> So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


I'm 56. I'm pretty sure he won't do this, although there's been plenty he's done that I was sure he wouldn't do. If he does, I will ignore the advice.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Thankfully, a village church on one of my dog walks has now reopened for contemplation two days a week. I really have no idea why they have been fully locked down these past few months when they are places that some need for their health and wellbeing. Beautiful and peaceful little church.


----------



## mrs phas

Th


rona said:


> So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


ThEres plenty 50 plus who carried on working all throughout 'lockdown'
BJ even called retired drs, nurses, police, paramedics et al to rejoin and help 'the fight'
Now he's going to volte face and tell them all they're far too susceptible at 50 (even those who were not yesterday when they were 49!)
Somehow I don't think this is going to go down well at all


----------



## lullabydream

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Carl Heneghan, amongst many, is someone who has been challenging the harsh lockdown put in place by Boris Johnson. He is a Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine, Director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine and Director of Studies for the Evidence-Based Health Care Programme.
> 
> Covid cases in England aren't rising: here's why.
> 
> "_Inaccuracies in the data and poor interpretation will often lead to errors in decisions about imposing restrictions, particularly if these decisions are done in haste and the interpretation does not account for fluctuations in the rates of testing".
> 
> _


Hmmmm I honestly will stick with Chris Whitty and the other scientist who have been steering the government. From where I have stood, and looked at the evidence as much as I can, peer reviewed they have been using 'evidence based'. These scientists especially the likes of Chris Whitty have discussed pandemics and studied them for probably most of their academic life. It's not a new phonomen to them.

While I don't think that the government know what to do what's best. I can clearly see what the science mean when they talk. The government are listening, but the media are giving us mainly a skewed perception after a briefing. Making the government seem screwed or whatever... It's definitely not a job I would want. Even more so if I didn't have good knowledge of science. As let's be fair not many do and that's why sometimes it seems that what is said by the government, should be said by those scientist. That's my only nit pick to be honest.


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


I'm guessing this was something floated in the UK.

I really don't see the point of an age cut-off like that. There are 60 year olds far healthier and less vulnerable than some 30 year olds. 
The biggest predictor of struggling with the virus and poor outcomes seems to be obesity. CNN did a visual story on Covid-19 patients and every single one sitting in a hospital bed was either overweight or obese. Especially the younger ones.

It's such a hard call, I totally get wanting to protect the vulnerable population, but I look at the teens in our small community, school has been closed since March 17, none of the teens and young adults have really social distanced, and they're really not being affected. The news made a huge deal out of all these kids coming back from beach trips and testing positive. Yes, they tested positive, but most had no symptoms, or if they did, it was a few sniffles and that's it. Of the ones who tested positive, they went on to test the whole household and even in the same household not everyone was testing positive nor getting sick.
Granted, now they're saying that testing isn't that accurate. Which is possible. But these kids aren't getting sick either.

Where we have had issues is in nursing homes, extended care homes, and locally there is home for special needs adults, and they were hit extremely hard with I believe up to 14 deaths now, patients and workers, which is beyond tragic in a small community like this.

There has to be a way that we can ramp up protections for those who are so vulnerable, while at the same time allowing those who will be fine to carry on as 'normal' as possible.


----------



## kittih

It will certainly be interesting in the workplace if over 50s have to shield. That will include a large proportion of senior managers and staff with the most experience. That would also include 50% of MPs (based on 2019 stats). 

Personally I can't see there being a high level of compliance. Those people who are being cautious and observing social distancing and avoiding crowded spaces will continue to do so. Those who seem to think it's all over or social distancing does not apply them irrespective of their age will continue to flout the rules.


----------



## Siskin

I feel I’m ok outside and socially distanced from people I know, strangers are another matter. 
If we do go over to our static it’s very well socially distanced from the neighbouring vans as we have a big plot anyway. There’s a lot of rules and regs that people have to adhere to on site and as it’s only owners and close family allowed to stay and a lot of them are retired rather then young people, I will feel fairly safe. Any children are not allowed to roam around the site on there own, can only be with their parents in attendance, the wardens are good at making sure people obey the rules. There’s a Waitrose not too far away that does click and collect, so we should be fine. It will be nice to have a change of scene

It’s so awful to have to feel this way constantly.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

If over 50s need to stay indoors that is my school shut down, which apparently they want to avoid at all costs. Not sure how they would plan to teach at 'full capacity' with 50% staffing... I certainly am not teaching classes of 60! 30 teens is more than enough 

I can see why they might want to lockdown those at greater risk, but it seems a little redundant if the rest of the country is just spreading the virus left and right.


----------



## MilleD

I went into my first shop since March on Saturday. 

Well, it's a sort of shop, it's at Llandegla Forest where we went mountain biking. Mainly a cafe, but everyone was eating outside in the rain, but also sells a bit of biking gear.

I was wearing a mask and trying to social distance, but I felt very uncomfortable. There were around 6 people in there....

I don't think I'm going to manage a supermarket any time soon.


----------



## O2.0

Rural life means not going to stores is not an option as we're not self-sufficient preppers yet LOL. 
It's weird for me to think about being able to not leave the house for any necessities. We don't even get pizza delivery out here. Too far! I'd be broke if I could order out!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh OH and I will continue to be very cautious and are working on the basis that most people now just aren’t following the guidelines properly.

Therefore masks, hand washing, anti bac’ing, SD’ing ourselves, continuing to rely for the most part on deliveries and only venturing out where safe to do so will be our regime for a good while yet.

We don’t feel we can truly rely on anyone else atm.

We went out for our Sunday drive today to a village we used to live in but drove on through as it was literally invaded by what seemed like 100’s of bikers crowding the centre. Glad we don’t live there now. It happened to a degree when we lived there but under current circumstances and with the huge increase in the numbers of bikers there today, villagers probably stay indoors during these invasions


----------



## rona

Can I just say that I'm reasonably sure that Boris hasn't said anything about keeping over 50s in. It seems to be press scaremongering. I suppose it could have been put forward by someone in Government (a Labour MP perhaps) in a meeting at some point. 
You know the press? It could have been someone mulled over a thought at the beginning of the pandemic and they've just found the notes


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> Ridiculous. Just wash hands, wear a mask and keep up with social distancing, while they work on a vaccine. How hard is it?
> 
> Selfish individuals want to lock up innocent people for getting older? Happy 50th.


To be honest, I'm with others on here,in not wanting to go anywhere near other people. Just going to the cash point gives me the heebie-jeebies and stepping into a confined space with others is a no no, unless for medical reasons.
I'm well able to have a full life without putting it in harms way amongst those that simply either don't care or can't think.
Sounds easy doesn't it "Just wash hands, wear a mask and keep up with social distancing," I would and do do that, but I'm not willing to trust others to do the same


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Four months now. Four months of this insanity. People unable to attend the funerals of loved ones, people too scared to go to hospital to get checked for cancers and other illnesses, medical centres shut down, dementia and aged people locked away from relatives, taking away education from children. The list of stupidity is endless.

We've already caused vastly more damage than necessary with this lockdown. And yet it continues, with no end in sight. 

The fearmongering is incessant.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Lockdown has had it’s negatives, yes, but I’m not sure what the alternative was/is going forward tbh.


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> Rural life means not going to stores is not an option as we're not self-sufficient preppers yet LOL.
> It's weird for me to think about being able to not leave the house for any necessities. We don't even get pizza delivery out here. Too far! I'd be broke if I could order out!


I think we take it very much for granted that we can get just about anything delivered.


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> So, what do you think of the suggestion that over 50s stay in lockdown while the under 50s go about their lives unhindered?


I think (hope) I misunderstood this to mean all over 50's have to stay at home. I must be wrong..Yes?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Lockdown has had it's negatives, yes, but I'm not sure what the alternative was/is going forward tbh.


I agree, I think they should have done it earlier but what else could they do. I've been out a few times but on the whole I've stuck to it and will for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Siskin

Brazil didn’t take any kind of lockdown procedures due to the president deciding covid was like a minor flu and not worth worrying about. I guess he changed his mind when he became seriously ill with it. The consequence now is that there has been coming up to 3 million cases that are known about, could well be more.


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> To be honest, I'm with others on here,in not wanting to go anywhere near other people. Just going to the cash point gives me the heebie-jeebies and stepping into a confined space with others is a no no, unless for medical reasons.


I think you can take it too far though. I mean obviously crowded spaces should be avoided (and dont get me started on those idiots cramming onto beaches or having big parties!) but you should still be able to have some sort of quality of life surely?? I now my parents are classed as vulnerable and they still go shopping weekly (wiht masks) and have days out (open spaces with SD).



Lurcherlad said:


> Lockdown has had it's negatives, yes, but I'm not sure what the alternative was/is going forward tbh.


We have to keep reminding ourselves that it was never about stopping everybody catching covid....just about stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed. The problem now is lockdown worked too well and people realiesed how little they actually need to go out when pretty much your entire life can be sorted out online. I think its going to have changed the way we live permanently.



Cully said:


> I think (hope) I misunderstood this to mean all over 50's have to stay at home. I must be wrong..Yes?


The paper I read was talking about some sort of risk scale os to wether you should isolate yourself starting at age 50 (Im only 3yrs off 50...cant imagine they would want me and all my fellow older nurses just not to turn up at work and stay home!LOL).


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> you should still be able to have some sort of quality of life surely??


Oh yes, but for me, this whole distancing thing is how I have always wanted things to be. I had a huge personal space awareness thing even before this pandemic. Can't stand crowds or people too close. 
Loved it when this first started and everyone stayed a proper 2m apart. Now they don't seem to stay even two feet apart :Banghead
Virtually all the things I love are outdoors and the one that is difficult is swimming, but have found myself a private pool (Which I'm using today ) or a private parking spot with changing shed on the beach.
My life is still active, good and socially distance. I don't need to go near anyone. 
I do feel sorry for those like my new young neighbours whose whole life revolves around shopping, restaurants and pubs, or older people that thrive on having a coffee with friends or going to a club


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Thankfully, a village church on one of my dog walks has now reopened for contemplation two days a week. I really have no idea why they have been fully locked down these past few months when they are places that some need for their health and wellbeing. Beautiful and peaceful little church.
> View attachment 446137


Because contained environments with high air recirculation levels are the absolute worst for viral loading and disease transmission - even with social distancing in place. I'm on the music team at my church, and we have no plans to reopen the doors any time soon. Nor does my Mum's church.



samuelsmiles3 said:


> Four months now. Four months of this insanity. People unable to attend the funerals of loved ones, people too scared to go to hospital to get checked for cancers and other illnesses, medical centres shut down, dementia and aged people locked away from relatives, taking away education from children. The list of stupidity is endless.


What would you have preferred? No lockdown and US style infection/death rates? This isn't a game - this is about saving lives. It's hard choices all the way, but always better safe than sorry.



samuelsmiles3 said:


> We've already caused vastly more damage than necessary with this lockdown. And yet it continues, with no end in sight.
> 
> The fearmongering is incessant.


The lack of clear and decisive leadership has been the main problem. If BoJo and Co had presented a clear, science led, unified pandemic response once it was clear it was the real deal (and I will freely admit I was in the 'it'll be another damp squib like Bird Flu was' camp at first), then there would have been a lot less arguing and confusion on which to base fearmongering.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I'm reasonably sure that Boris hasn't said anything about keeping over 50s in.


 It would seem a bit strange as he's 50+ himself.. . . maybe he'll send Carrie shopping.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> I went into my first shop since March on Saturday.


 Lord, that sounds incredible! I shop for an elderly (87) neighbour who had a fall a few weeks into lockdown and can't yet manage the stairs in his block, also for another who has really bad arthritis and standing in a queue waiting to be admitted to a shop was making it worse for her. So I've been shopping most days. They both live alone and don't order enough to warrant having it delivered really.


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> Lord, that sounds incredible! I shop for an elderly (87) neighbour who had a fall a few weeks into lockdown and can't yet manage the stairs in his block, also for another who has really bad arthritis and standing in a queue waiting to be admitted to a shop was making it worse for her. So I've been shopping most days. They both live alone and don't order enough to warrant having it delivered really.


Well that makes a lot of us incredible too, including me. I haven't been in a shop since a few days before lockdown. I was planning on taking my first tentative step into the human race again this week but with the rise in cases it seems too risky. I don't feel very incredible, just frustrated and missing human contact which last for more than a few seconds as we pass each other in the corridor.


----------



## Jobeth

I went for a haircut today and did some shopping beforehand. I went early and was the only person in several shops so it was fine.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Well that makes a lot of us incredible too, including me. I haven't been in a shop since a few days before lockdown. I was planning on taking my first tentative step into the human race again this week but with the rise in cases it seems too risky. I don't feel very incredible, just frustrated and missing human contact which last for more than a few seconds as we pass each other in the corridor.


I'm missing human contact too. My SIL came and paid a visit on Saturday and we spent the time sitting out in the garden, she bought her own food. It was lovely to see her again, last time was February, I was really tired afterwards and slept like a log that night.
Tomorrow it's book club for six of us. We haven't been meeting up until recently although I didn't go to that one. However I do plan to go this time as we will be sitting out in the garden. It will be great to see everyone again.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Sweden (no lockdown like the UK) updated on 3 August. 2 deaths in past 6 days. Deaths per day in past 10 days: 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 3, 1, 1.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Jesthar said:


> Because contained environments with high air recirculation levels are the absolute worst for viral loading and disease transmission - even with social distancing in place. I'm on the music team at my church, and we have no plans to reopen the doors any time soon. Nor does my Mum's church.
> 
> Would you have preferred? No lockdown and US style infection/death rates? This isn't a game - this is about saving lives. It's hard choices all the way, but always better safe than sorry.
> 
> The lack of clear and decisive leadership has been the main problem. If BoJo and Co had presented a clear, science led, unified pandemic response once it was clear it was the real deal (and I will freely admit I was in the 'it'll be another damp squib like Bird Flu was' camp at first), then there would have been a lot less arguing and confusion on which to base fearmongering.


Nothing about this lockdown can be considered the 'safe' option. This has been a disastrous response to a disastrous model from Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London. Someone with an appalling previous record of modelling and someone who considered the virus so dangerous that he was prepared to risk his life by knocking off his mistress when telling everyone else to lock themselves away.

We're going to be sorry, not safe.


----------



## Siskin

It depends exactly how they are recording deaths from coronavirus. For some weird reason the U.K. is recording a cause of death as coronavirus irrespective if the person had it 3 months ago and recovered then was run over by a bus.


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Sweden (no lockdown like the UK) updated on 3 August. 2 deaths in past 6 days. Deaths per day in past 10 days: 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 3, 1, 1.
> 
> View attachment 446220


Except that's not a fair comparison, is it?

The UK has over 6 times the population of Sweden (66 million vs 10 million), and - critically - eleven times the population density (275 people per km2 vs 25 people per km2). in England that rises to 432 people per km2. Lots more people close together = massive increase in transmission opportunity. Even in pandemic central (AKA the USA) the remote rural areas have very few cases whilst the cities are being hit for six.

Basically, low population density means life carrying on relatively normally with sensible precautions is feasible. As population density increases, so does the transmission opportunity, and that's when you either start taking stricter measures to contain the spread, or sit back and watch the case and death count rise rapidly as your healthcare provision is overwhelmed. It's that simple.



samuelsmiles3 said:


> Nothing about this lockdown can be considered the 'safe' option. This has been a disastrous response to a disastrous model from Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London. Someone with an appalling previous record of modelling and someone who considered the virus so dangerous that he was prepared to risk his life by knocking off his mistress when telling everyone else to lock themselves away.
> 
> We're going to be sorry, not safe.


Why? I have no idea what point you are trying to make here...


----------



## O2.0

Only time will tell what was the safer, smarter option. I don't think we really know right now. But I would much rather err on the side of protecting the vulnerable. 
But at the same time, I worry that we are fear mongering too and making people who stress easily even more stressed and anxious. Mental health matters too. And months of isolation is not good for mental health in any way shape or form. 

I think we need to be more clear about where the worst infections seem to be happening. It's not casual contact like walking by someone who's not wearing a mask in a grocery store, or even sitting in a waiting room for 5 minutes next to an ill patient that we need to be concerned about. 
The worst transmissions seem to happen with prolonged exposure. Sustained breathing in of infected particles for hours in poorly ventilated areas. 
Like sitting at a loud pub, talking loudly, or singing in a choir or at church next to someone for a couple hours. We've had lots of infections in meat packing plants, cold, poorly circulated air, people talking loudly over machinery, working next to each other for hours. These are the danger zones. 

I think it's terrible that we've created this atmosphere where some people are so terrified of walking past someone in the supermarket. I would much rather we drill down to the most likely conditions for spreading the virus, and minimize those, and stop making people paranoid and afraid of their fellow humans


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Except that's not a fair comparison, is it?
> 
> The UK has over 6 times the population of Sweden (66 million vs 10 million), and - critically - eleven times the population density (275 people per km2 vs 25 people per km2). in England that rises to 432 people per km2. Lots more people close together = massive increase in transmission opportunity. Even in pandemic central (AKA the USA) the remote rural areas have very few cases whilst the cities are being hit for six.
> 
> Basically, low population density means life carrying on relatively normally with sensible precautions is feasible. As population density increases, so does the transmission opportunity, and that's when you either start taking stricter measures to contain the spread, or sit back and watch the case and death count rise rapidly as your healthcare provision is overwhelmed. It's that simple.
> 
> Why? I have no idea what point you are trying to make here...


Exactly! Hungary has virtually the same population as Sweden, but is only 20% the size of Sweden with a population density of 104 people per sq km2 compared to Sweden's 25 per km2.

Unlike Sweden Hungary went into a very strict lock down and the wearing of masks was and still is mandatory. We came out of lock down in the middle of June although gatherings of 500 or more are still prohibited. Schools go back in September. We have been told though that should new cases creep up to 100 a day, lock down will be enforced again.

To date Hungary has had 4544 cases of Covid-19 with 597 deaths compared to Sweden's 81012 cases with 5744 deaths. Yesterday Sweden had 37 new cases and 1 death compared to our 9 new cases and no deaths. The highest number of new cases per day we've had since the beginning of July has been 26 and with deaths is 2.

Looking in from the outside, so to speak, right from the onset Hungarians have been kept well informed about the situation with daily news conferences. and the message has been simple and consistent throughout. Wear a mask, keep a 2 metre distance, and wash your hands regularly

So different from the messages the UK and US seem to be giving out. No wonder you're all confused

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/hungary/

*







*
* Hungary*

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

*







*
* Sweden*


----------



## samuelsmiles3

A fairer comparison would be two cities with similar population density. 

Stockholm - population density of 4800 per square kilometres. 2,380 reported Covid deaths. 
London - population density of 5700 per square kilometres. 6,100 reported Covid deaths

Nothing will convince me that this lockdown has been successful in reducing overall deaths in this country, and nothing will convince me to support it. The images of young school children put in chalked boxes in playgrounds, a man pleading to police to be let out of a high rise flat in Melbourne just to get some fresh air, dementia patients kept hidden from family members. Every day you see things like this and despair at what we are doing. We've stopped living to live. This is all wrong.


----------



## ForestWomble

From what I have seen it isn't the lockdown that caused the UK to have such high death rates, but the stupidity of a lot of people not obeying the lockdown, then add to that the number of people who flocked to beaches etc as soon as lockdown started to ease.


----------



## catz4m8z

samuelsmiles3 said:


> A fairer comparison would be two cities with similar population density.
> Stockholm - population density of 4800 per square kilometres. 2,380 reported Covid deaths.
> London - population density of 5700 per square kilometres. 6,100 reported Covid deaths
> .


Even then its hard to know if its a fair comparison...you also have to take into account vectors like travel. I think London has quite a transient population compared to some other cities.

But I will grant that very few countries had such confusing instructions as us at the beginning, I dont think that helped at all!


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> A fairer comparison would be two cities with similar population density.
> 
> Stockholm - population density of 4800 per square kilometres. 2,380 reported Covid deaths.
> London - population density of 5700 per square kilometres. 6,100 reported Covid deaths
> 
> Nothing will convince me that this lockdown has been successful in reducing overall deaths in this country, and nothing will convince me to support it. The images of young school children put in chalked boxes in playgrounds, a man pleading to police to be let out of a high rise flat in Melbourne just to get some fresh air, dementia patients kept hidden from family members. Every day you see things like this and despair at what we are doing. We've stopped living to live. This is all wrong.


I think you're looking at it the wrong way by concentrating on the deaths from the virus. You should be looking at the number of new cases instead.

Surely logic must tell you that if you don't contract the virus you're not going to die from it? The whole point of wearing masks, keeping a distance, washing hands and imposing a lock down is to keep the number of new infections as low as possible

We had the same problem in South Africa during the HIV epidemic when men were advised to use condoms. Many disregarded the advice and not only contracted the virus themselves but infected their sexual partners, et al with (in those days) their resultant deaths.

Simple facts that many people seem incapable of understanding!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

I think the death rates are the most important data, but....

Covid 19 cases in Sweden plummet.

"In many ways the voluntary measures we put in place in Sweden have been just as effective as complete lockdowns in other countries", Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency said, and added:

"We are now seeing rapidly falling cases, we have continuously had healthcare that has been working, there have been free beds at any given time, never any crowding in the hospitals. The failure has of course been the death toll that has been very much related to the long-term care facilities in Sweden. Now that has improved, we see a lot less cases in those facilities".


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> I think London has quite a transient population


Also the second busiest airport in the world (I believe the busiest in Europe) by passenger numbers.


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> Also the second busiest airport in the world (I believe the busiest in Europe) by passenger numbers.


Add a second very busy airport into the mix and throw in no restrictons, testing or quarantine for new arrivals to the country, and you have a recipe for widespread bug transmission...



samuelsmiles3 said:


> "In many ways the voluntary measures we put in place in Sweden have been just as effective as complete lockdowns in other countries", Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency said


Yeah, the UK tried 'voluntary' back in the beginning, remember? Problem was a large chunk of the population didn't want to volunteer, so we had to move on to conscription...


----------



## Arny

Sweden also live very differently. A high proportion of the population lives alone.
Here, at the moment, the worst areas are high density housing with multi generational homes.

Yes failings were made here but at the moment I don't think its helpful to compare us with others when there are so many variables.
We won't know the true picture for years.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

You cannot compare Sweden to the UK.

Despite the population density being similar (ish) in Stockholm and London, there is less travel to and from Stockholm from neighbouring, high density cities as there is in London.

In Sweden, March and April is cold and wintery as it approaches a mild summer. There will be less outside gatherings in general as there are in a milder UK climate. Now that summer has arrived in Sweden, their cases have increased significantly whereas ours was that significant way back in March.

It is quite literally like comparing apples and oranges.


----------



## MilleD

samuelsmiles3 said:


> A fairer comparison would be two cities with similar population density.
> 
> Stockholm - population density of 4800 per square kilometres. 2,380 reported Covid deaths.
> London - population density of 5700 per square kilometres. 6,100 reported Covid deaths


So per capita, a lot more in Stockholm?


----------



## Magyarmum

MissSpitzMum said:


> You cannot compare Sweden to the UK.
> 
> Despite the population density being similar (ish) in Stockholm and London, there is less travel to and from Stockholm from neighbouring, high density cities as there is in London.
> 
> In Sweden, March and April is cold and wintery as it approaches a mild summer. There will be less outside gatherings in general as there are in a milder UK climate. *Now that summer has arrived in Sweden, their cases have increased significantly whereas ours was that significant way back in March.*
> 
> It is quite literally like comparing apples and oranges.


Not according to this article

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/sw...et-amid-major-spike-in-other-parts-of-europe/

*Sweden's new COVID cases plummet amid major spike in other parts of Europe*


----------



## samuelsmiles3

MissSpitzMum said:


> You cannot compare Sweden to the UK.
> 
> Despite the population density being similar (ish) in Stockholm and London, there is less travel to and from Stockholm from neighbouring, high density cities as there is in London.
> 
> In Sweden, March and April is cold and wintery as it approaches a mild summer. There will be less outside gatherings in general as there are in a milder UK climate. Now that summer has arrived in Sweden, their cases have increased significantly whereas ours was that significant way back in March.
> 
> It is quite literally like comparing apples and oranges.


Where are you getting your data from?

Sweden Unveils 'Promising' Covid-19 Data as New Cases Plunge


----------



## MissSpitzMum

Mid June to July Sweden's virus cases were ridiculous. They also out ranked the USA in deaths when adjusted to capita.

They have dropped now because they went for a herd immunity approach on an isolated and low population density country. Those in the cities have now died or built up some immunity, and those outside the cities were isolated anyway. 

Personally I am not of the opinion lives are expendable like that, and certainly having no lockdown measures in a country where population density is so high (UK) would have been catastrophic.


----------



## Siskin

MissSpitzMum said:


> Mid June to July Sweden's virus cases were ridiculous. They also out ranked the USA in deaths when adjusted to capita.
> 
> They have dropped now because they went for a herd immunity approach on an isolated and low population density country. Those in the cities have now died or built up some immunity, and those outside the cities were isolated anyway.
> 
> Personally I am not of the opinion lives are expendable like that, and certainly having no lockdown measures in a country where population density is so high (UK) would have been catastrophic.


I completely agree, particularly with your last paragraph


----------



## samuelsmiles3

8 Covid-19 patients in ICU in Stockholm today, and 37 in the whole country. No harsh lockdowns were necessary to get there. No mandatory masks, most schools open to educate their young children, bars, shops and restaurants open. I've been very impressed with the calm approach of Anders Tegnell.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

To put Sweden's corona deaths into context:-

Norway, Sweden's neighbour, has a similar population density to Sweden (slightly lower for Norway) with half the amount of people as Sweden. To Sweden's 5,700 deaths, Norway had 250. As Norway has half the population, let's equivilance it to 500 if the population was on par.

That is 5,200 less dead people. 5,200 less grieving families. To say Sweden had it right is just ignoring the actual cost their policies have taken. 5,200 extra human lives.

Then you have Norway's 9,000 documented cases total (so people sick enough to actually be tested) to Sweden's 81,000. As we know, even if you recover from corona, it can have lasting effects on your health to an extent we don't even know yet.

I for one am glad our Government did not follow Sweden's model.


----------



## Magyarmum

MissSpitzMum said:


> To put Sweden's corona deaths into context:-
> 
> Norway, Sweden's neighbour, has a similar population density to Sweden (slightly lower for Norway) with half the amount of people as Sweden. To Sweden's 5,700 deaths, Norway had 250. As Norway has half the population, let's equivilance it to 500 if the population was on par.
> 
> That is 5,200 less dead people. 5,200 less grieving families. To say Sweden had it right is just ignoring the actual cost their policies have taken. 5,200 extra human lives.
> 
> Then you have Norway's 9,000 documented cases total (so people sick enough to actually be tested) to Sweden's 81,000. As we know, even if you recover from corona, it can have lasting effects on your health to an extent we don't even know yet.
> 
> I for one am glad our Government did not follow Sweden's model.


I'm very thankful that Hungary didn't follow Sweden!

Hungary has a similar population to Sweden but is one fifth the size. The population density in Hungary is 104 people per km2 compared to 25 in Sweden. Hungary is a poor country and spends less than half the amount on healthcare than Sweden, Fortunately, Hungary has one of the highest number of hospital beds in Europe so we were never in risk of running out of beds.

The government acted swiftly and decisively to make sure healthcare workers had everything they needed in the way of PPE, and medical equipment. The public were kept well informed and given clear instructions on what they should do and more importantly, why they should do it.

In total we've had 4553 cases with 598 deaths. At present there are 75 people in hospital and 7 on ventilators in ICU.

Yesterday there were 9 new cases and one death. We know however that there's like;y to be a second wave and we might have to go into lock down again.


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> 8 Covid-19 patients in ICU in Stockholm today, and 37 in the whole country. No harsh lockdowns were necessary to get there. No mandatory masks, most schools open to educate their young children, bars, shops and restaurants open. I've been very impressed with the calm approach of Anders Tegnell.
> View attachment 446317


I'm not quite sure where you're getting your figures from but according to the data I'm looking at there were 590 new cases in Sweden yesterday and 1 death. According to Statista there were 2515 patients in intensive care.

*Coronavirus (COVID-19) patients in intensive care in Sweden 2020, by gender*
Published by F. Norrestad, Jul 31, 2020
A total of 2,515 coronavirus (COVID-19) patients had been hospitalized in intensive care in Sweden as of July 31, 2020. The number of male patients was 1,839, while the number of female patients in intensive care due to the virus was 676. The number of new patients in intensive care with confirmed coronavirus infection peaked in April and then started to drop, and as of July 27, 2020 there were no new patients.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavi...E#what-is-the-daily-number-of-confirmed-cases

You might like to read this article by 25 doctors and scientists which appeared in USA today

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opini...munity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/

*Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.*

https://fortune.com/2020/07/16/sweden-covid-strategy-herd-immunity-elusive/

*Sweden defends its COVID strategy even as the mortality rate surpasses the U.S. and herd immunity remains elusive*


----------



## MilleD

Just to put our country's problems into context:


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Just to put our country's problems into context:


I watched the news last night and this morning. The area is absolutely devastated, poor souls. At the moment it seems it was a warehouse full of stored fertiliser that went up, but as my husband said, it's doesn't spontaneously ignite,mit needs a catalyst like some Semtex for instance. I'm not sure if an electrical malfunction or a discarded cigarette butt would be enough


----------



## Siskin

Bringing the subject back to the U.K., I was told yesterday that there are no covid cases at all in both the Gloucester Royal or the Cheltenham General which is good to know.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I watched the news last night and this morning. The area is absolutely devastated, poor souls. At the moment it seems it was a warehouse full of stored fertiliser that went up, but as my husband said, it's doesn't spontaneously ignite,mit needs a catalyst like some Semtex for instance. I'm not sure if an electrical malfunction or a discarded cigarette butt would be enough


The footage before the huge explosion was weird.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Bringing the subject back to the U.K., I was told yesterday that there are no covid cases at all in both the Gloucester Royal or the Cheltenham General which is good to know.


Great news. We hadn't had any cases test positive in Stafford borough, until the furore at the Crown and Anchor pub in Stone. Then the cases have started to rise again. Only small though, I think we have overall around 850 cases which isn't many.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> I watched the news last night and this morning. The area is absolutely devastated, poor souls. At the moment it seems it was a warehouse full of stored fertiliser that went up, but as my husband said, it's doesn't spontaneously ignite,mit needs a catalyst like some Semtex for instance. I'm not sure if an electrical malfunction or a discarded cigarette butt would be enough


Wasn't there some mention of the fire seen before the blast was 'fireworks'?


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Wasn't there some mention of the fire seen before the blast was 'fireworks'?


Hadn't heard that one, but I guess that could have done it.

There seemed to be an initial quite big explosion then an enormous one almost like a nuclear bomb


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Hadn't heard that one, but I guess that could have done it.
> 
> There seemed to be an initial quite big explosion then an enormous one almost like a nuclear bomb


Apparently it was close to a fireworks factory according to reports on CNN.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/...s-dle-intl/h_e6713bdae252e2feee83a4e3263c09ac

*Lebanon explosion rocks capital city Beirut*


----------



## MollySmith

Deleted


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> Wasn't there some mention of the fire seen before the blast was 'fireworks'?


It all seems a bit unknown at the moment about what caused it, Ive heard it was a welder working on the building next door, which caused a fire that spread?

The fertiliser used is known for being used in terrorist bombs because its highly explosive.

That explosion looked terrible, the way it reduced the are to rubble like that. Must be awful for families who have any missing.


----------



## kimthecat

Went to Wickes today wearing masks. The staff weren't wearing any. I thought they had to?


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Went to Wickes today wearing masks. The staff weren't wearing any. I thought they had to?


I think shop staff are exempt...


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> I think shop staff are exempt...


Oh I see. Thanks . It gets a bit confusing.


----------



## SbanR

@MilleD I had my molar extracted today and I was only charged £22.70!
Very happy to pay that but puzzled. Do you know if there's some special Covid reduction or tax exemption going on?

*only realised what I'd been charged when I got home and looked at the receipt


----------



## StormyThai

Jesthar said:


> I think shop staff are exempt...


I think many employers have left it up to the staff to decide. Most of the staff around me are wearing masks if they are on the shop floor, I've even spotted a couple of till staff wearing masks at our Sainsburys even though they are behind the plastic shields.


----------



## Siskin

We got brave today and met up with friends at our local pub for lunch, thanking Rishi as we tucked into our nice meal. We had planned to be outside, but a shower of rain just at the wrong time stopped that one. The pub has four different eating areas, the one we were in had four tables carefully distanced from one another with tape on the floor to show exactly where each table had to be. There was sanitiser to use on entry and some people wore masks if they were passing through to the toilets. I felt pretty safe even though it was quite busy, they had 60 covers during lunchtime, not all inside as the rain stopped and there were several outside in the garden. Haven’t seen our friends since December.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> @MilleD I had my molar extracted today and I was only charged £22.70!
> Very happy to pay that but puzzled. Do you know if there's some special Covid reduction or tax exemption going on?
> 
> *only realised what I'd been charged when I got home and looked at the receipt


How odd!

I wasn't aware of any discounts that are around. Ah well, take the good price right?!

How are you feeling?


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Siskin said:


> Bringing the subject back to the U.K., I was told yesterday that there are no covid cases at all in both the Gloucester Royal or the Cheltenham General which is good to know.


My mum lives in Glos and I'm relieved to know there aren't many cases down there. She went to into town the other day, for the first time since before the lock down


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> How odd!
> 
> I wasn't aware of any discounts that are around. Ah well, take the good price right?!
> 
> How are you feeling?


Dentist gave me a pre-extraction talk - how difficult it is to remove a molar (I knew that!!!), if the top broke off, blah blah blah. Scared the bejesus out of me:Woot.
It wasn't too bad.

Cold food n drinks for the rest of the day
Thanks for asking


----------



## Cully

MissMiloKitty said:


> My mum lives in Glos and I'm relieved to know there aren't many cases down there. She went to into town the other day, for the first time since before the lock down


Good for her. How did she find it after all that time?


----------



## catz4m8z

Went in town today and passed my friends mother (in her 70s) who hadnt bothered to wear a mask. She also likes to go shopping daily so clearly just enjoys gambling with her health.:Woot
I put my mask on as soon as I hit the High St because it was busy and I couldnt easily SD from everybody. TBH Im not worried about catching covid myself as Ive already had it and tested positive for antibodies. Im more worried that I could now be a carrier if I catch it again and pass it on without knowing...just seems like a common courtesy for 2020 to wear a mask in busy areas.


----------



## Magyarmum

catz4m8z said:


> Went in town today and passed my friends mother (in her 70s) who hadnt bothered to wear a mask. She also likes to go shopping daily so clearly just enjoys gambling with her health.:Woot
> I put my mask on as soon as I hit the High St because it was busy and I couldnt easily SD from everybody. TBH Im not worried about catching covid myself as Ive already had it and tested positive for antibodies. Im more worried that I could now be a carrier if I catch it again and pass it on without knowing...just seems like a common courtesy for 2020 to wear a mask in busy areas.


My friends who've come to live in Hungary finished their two week quarantine at midnight and are SO excited about being "free" to go out into the wide world again! Sent them a message to remind them to wear masks and take hand sanitiser with them and to keep a good distance from everyone else.

I'm a real spoil sport!


----------



## MollySmith

This wasn't an easy watch last night but if you can, do. The presenters are doctors and it makes all the difference and a unique programme. I wish I could force everyone who thinks it's a minor cold or subscribes to herd immunity watch it, and the damm government. I've posted a review so you know what to expect.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000ljnb

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...-a-rigorous-dispatch-from-the-covid-frontline


----------



## Cully

MollySmith said:


> This wasn't an easy watch last night but if you can, do. The presenters are doctors and it makes all the difference and a unique programme. I wish I could force everyone who thinks it's a minor cold or subscribes to herd immunity watch it, and the damm government. I've posted a review so you know what to expect.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000ljnb
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...-a-rigorous-dispatch-from-the-covid-frontline


I watched it and found it a very stark reminder of how serious this virus is. The fact that it was presented by Dr Chris van Tulleken made it all the more watchable as he is someone I trust.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> This wasn't an easy watch last night but if you can, do. The presenters are doctors and it makes all the difference and a unique programme. I wish I could force everyone who thinks it's a minor cold or subscribes to herd immunity watch it, and the damm government. I've posted a review so you know what to expect.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000ljnb
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...-a-rigorous-dispatch-from-the-covid-frontline


I can't watch it because I don't live in the UK but I can imagine what it must be like having worked in a hospital during the HIV epidemic. At that time the most heartbreaking were the babies and young children dying from AIDS and knowing there was absolutely nothing you could do about it.


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> TBH Im not worried about catching covid myself as Ive already had it and tested positive for antibodies. Im more worried that I could now be a carrier if I catch it again and pass it on without knowing


That's scientifically impossible if you have have tested positive for antibodies. You won't be carrying it, and this is the whole point of vaccinations in the first place.

Here is Dr John Campbell giving a basic information on antigen, immunity, and antibody information. Please don't be put off anyone watching he teaches science how it should be taught, with friendly basic description to keep it interesting


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> That's scientifically impossible if you have have tested positive for antibodies. You won't be carrying it, and this is the whole point of vaccinations in the first place.
> 
> Here is Dr John Campbell giving a basic information on antigen, immunity, and antibody information. Please don't be put off anyone watching he teaches science how it should be taught, with friendly basic description to keep it interesting


That was easy to understand as well as being interesting. Thank you


----------



## samuelsmiles3

England COVID 19 hospital data since peak.

The number of people in hospital has decreased 96% from 17,172 to 694. 

Admissions have decreased 98% from 3,099 to 58.

The number of patients in ventilation beds has decreased 98% from 2,881 to 61.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Popped in to Homebase this afternoon for some grass seed. Afterwards I had a very quick two minute look around a small section of the car park and found garbage that included five discarded masks and three gloves.


----------



## O2.0

The mask and gloves trash is driving me up the wall. I'm seeing disposable masks discarded everywhere. I hate it so much! 

We just spent a few days in Charleston, our fist venture out of the isolated rural area we live in. 
I was pleasantly surprised, everyone wearing masks indoors, and outside where you might pass other people on the street. Restaurants offering outdoor seating, and have to wear a mask to come indoors to use facilities. All stores requiring masks and only a certain number of patrons at a time. Little things people thought of, like at one place they had sanitized pens in one jar to use and when you were done, you put it in the other jar to get sanitized. 
The beaches were open, but you could not bring any chairs, umbrellas or coolers (to encourage people not to congregate in large groups) and on the beach it was very easy to stay miles away from other people. Parks were similar, very easy to avoid other people. 
So all in all I felt good about the whole thing. 

I really think the more we learn about how it's transmitted and take steps to reduce spreading it, we really might be okay


----------



## Lurcherlad

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Popped in to Homebase this afternoon for some grass seed. Afterwards I had a very quick two minute look around a small section of the car park and found garbage that included five discarded masks and three gloves.
> View attachment 446461
> View attachment 446462


Some people will always be scumbags, sadly


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Went to Wickes today wearing masks. The staff weren't wearing any. I thought they had to?


 Only the police can ''enforce'' it apparently and they have said they are too busy. M&S have said they have _advised _their staff to wear them, but they can't force them to. The ''new normal'' is all a bit confusing. The girl who served me in Sainsbury's wasn't, but she may have neem exempt - who knows? And she was behind a bulletproof screen.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> The girl who served me in Sainsbury's wasn't, but she may have neem exempt - who knows? And she was behind a bulletproof screen.


If she was behind the screen then she doesn't have to wear a mask. 
The guidelines are for the customer area when not behind screens


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Masks at Holmes Chapel School to become compulsory as part of the school uniform. I pity these poor children. How utterly depressing things have become.

Masks to become part of Holmes Chapel Comp school uniform
_All students and staff will have to wear them inside the school buildings from September_


----------



## StormyThai

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Masks at Holmes Chapel School to become compulsory as part of the school uniform. I pity these poor children. How utterly depressing things have become.
> 
> Masks to become part of Holmes Chapel Comp school uniform
> _All students and staff will have to wear them inside the school buildings from September_


Why would you pity them?
What is so upsetting about wearing a mask to stop the spread of a virus?


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/health/coronavirus-mask-protection.html

*Masks May Reduce Viral Dose, Some Experts Say*

The PDF mentioned in the article is worth reading.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> Why would you pity them?
> What is so upsetting about wearing a mask to stop the spread of a virus?


Even more depressing becoming infected and lying in a hospital struggling to breathe!


----------



## Happy Paws2

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Masks at Holmes Chapel School to become compulsory as part of the school uniform. *I pity these poor children. How utterly depressing things have become.*
> 
> Masks to become part of Holmes Chapel Comp school uniform
> _All students and staff will have to wear them inside the school buildings from September_


Why, better too wear one than be dead!


----------



## Boxer123

Also it’s a secondary school so they are old enough to understand.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Also it's a secondary school so they are old enough to understand.


And given the lack of Social Distancing I've witnessed from the local youth (and those in 20's and 30's) round here they are quite likely to be spreading it without even knowing.

The teachers deserve to be protected too imo.


----------



## Cully

This virus is not going to go away and a vaccine isn't likely to be available for a very long time, if at all. So everyone needs to get used to wearing a face covering and accept that it is part of the new 'norm'. When we go outside we already automatically pick up our keys and phone. Now we need to add face covering, so it shouldn't be a big deal.


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> it shouldn't be a big deal.


It really shouldn't. If we can walk around downtown Charleston in 96 (35+ celcius) and near 100% humidity in a mask, along with every other person walking about, anyone can. 
There was a 'discussion' locally about our schools requiring all children, 5K up to wear masks and a couple of our family physicians chimed in to explain that there is NO medical condition that precludes wearing a mask. 
There are so many options, I'm liking the buffs more and more, and there are some really fun designs too. 
The sooner we normalize mask wearing and stop bitching about it, the better.

As for a vaccine, I'm feeling pretty hopeful that we will have one sooner than later, but initially it should go to the vulnerable first which is where the experts hesitate to say we'll *all* have a vaccine soon. 
I'm also feeling very positive about the treatment options being explored. Things are looking up in that area. And again I feel the need to remind myself and anyone reading that the huge, vast majority of people who get this virus will be totally fine without any medical intervention whatsoever. 
So even if we never get a good vaccine, if we figure out an effective treatment for those who do get sick enough to need medical attention it will help tremendously.

In one way or another, this virus will loosen it's hold on us


----------



## MissSpitzMum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Masks at Holmes Chapel School to become compulsory as part of the school uniform. I pity these poor children. How utterly depressing things have become.
> 
> Masks to become part of Holmes Chapel Comp school uniform
> _All students and staff will have to wear them inside the school buildings from September_


I wish my school would do the same. Staff deserve to be protected. Essentially you are walking into a 1.5k strong mass gathering on a daily basis. Wearing my mask regardless but I do wish it was compulsory.


----------



## O2.0

MissSpitzMum said:


> I wish my school would do the same. Staff deserve to be protected. Essentially you are walking into a 1.5k strong mass gathering on a daily basis. Wearing my mask regardless but I do wish it was compulsory.


Our school district has made mask wearing compulsory as per the CDC and WHO recommendations. Our state superintendent made a statement strongly recommending compulsory mask wearing too.

Students are offered the option of face to face or all virtual schooling, about 1/3 chose virtual, so teachers who aren't comfortable with face to face were also offered the virtual option. For us, it turned out not enough teachers signed up for virtual, teachers want to teach face to face. 
We don't actually start until September so we still have some time to figure out protocols.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

O2.0 said:


> Our school district has made mask wearing compulsory as per the CDC and WHO recommendations. Our state superintendent made a statement strongly recommending compulsory mask wearing too.
> 
> Students are offered the option of face to face or all virtual schooling, about 1/3 chose virtual, so teachers who aren't comfortable with face to face were also offered the virtual option. For us, it turned out not enough teachers signed up for virtual, teachers want to teach face to face.
> We don't actually start until September so we still have some time to figure out protocols.


We aren't given the option in the UK. Parents must send their children in regardless, which must make life terrifying for those who live with vulnerable people. Staff can identify as vulnerable, but given the amount of colleagues I know who are themselves or who live with someone vulnerable if they remained home we physically wouldn't have the staff, so who knows what is happening there :/

I can imagine lots of schools shutting due to staffing or local covid increases periodically which I feel is more disruptive to education than a firm plan. Before the schools were told to close many had to send certain year groups home last minute as the staffing just wasn't there.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## lorilu

In my community schools will not be opening until October. Virtual learning will begin on September 9, the first day of the school calendar. It's the 2 colleges returning that most of us are dreading. 7000+ college students coming in from all over the country (and a few international) all at once. 

We're a small community here, except for tourism in summer and the colleges the rest of the year. Most of the tourism was closed this summer. But the students are coming.


----------



## Magyarmum

lorilu said:


> In my community schools will not be opening until October. Virtual learning will begin on September 9, the first day of the school calendar. It's the 2 colleges returning that most of us are dreading. 7000+ college students coming in from all over the country (and a few international) all at once.
> 
> We're a small community here, except for tourism in summer and the colleges the rest of the year. Most of the tourism was closed this summer. But the students are coming.


----------



## Magyarmum

In Hungary our schools are scheduled to be opened as normal at the beginning of September. However, because of the variations in the number of new infections throughout the country, the final decision of how and whether to open is left to local authorities.


----------



## O2.0

I'm very torn on schools opening. Online schooling was a massive fail, and really emphasized the achievement gap we've been working so hard to diminish. There will always be a group of kids who do absolutely fine with virtual learning because their parents can afford to take time off work, hire tutors, make sure the children have UTD devices, high speed and reliable internet, and every other necessity and comfort to make virtual learning a success.
Then there are those kids who are stuck at home with intermittent internet, sharing devices with siblings (or parent who has to work from home), who may be also helping siblings with their work, babysitting for parents who can't not be at work. Even something as simple as not having a room in the house where they can go and focus on school without interruptions can make or break things for a student. 

With more online school the achievement gap is going to widen even more and that's not okay. This pandemic is really delineating the haves and have nots in all sorts of ways. It annoys me how much the media focuses on new infections - most of which will be completely fine, and doesn't seem to be paying attention to the equally devastating number of people who are losing their homes, can't pay rent, can't make the mortgage, because they've lost their job, or one of their jobs they rely on to pay the bills every month. It feels like this part of the story is completely lost in the pandemic hysteria. 

And now with most (all?) states offering a choice of virtual of face to face, it's starting to become a bit of an elitism thing with the parents who can afford to do so keeping their kids away from the usual public school 'riff raff' but totally okay with their kids not social distancing at the country club pool.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> , it's starting to become a bit of an elitism thing with the parents who can afford to do so keeping their kids away from the usual public school 'riff raff'


This I am shocked to be hearing of parents saying over here local to me... Its like now people have been able to sit back and home school.. Please those primary school educators we talk about place value not adding a nought which I keep hearing through people on how x understands now... Anyway off on a tangent.. I keep hearing people have had the opportunities to go back but declined because you know its mainly the 'riff raff' there. I think it's a shame people had a choice here where I live. Most get their first choice here and the schools are kinda a much of a muchness anyway.

I also agree whole heartedly about resources @O2.0 I have done home visits in the past. Social housing in certain areas mean no space for dining table, and usually 2-3 pupils live there. If parents don't think drawing, writing, etc is important it must be hard to do some work and uncomfortable for some. Writing on the floor isn't easy for those junior ages school children and above.

Houses are built tiny too these day, so not easy for those in newly built property either if my nephews house is anything to go by.

I know it's probably been difficulty for adults to work at home, my son wanted most well all the health and safety marked off properly. We have done our best, but he's taking up our dining room table to accommodate.. No room for another desk in our house.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

It doesn't get any better, does it. This is Wat Khlong Toei School in Bangkok. Are we OK with this, too?


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> It doesn't get any better, does it. This is Wat Khlong Toei School in Bangkok. Are we OK with this, too?
> View attachment 446577


I don't think anyone has ever said precautionary measures are fun. But it comes down to what you prefer - schools not going back, schools going back with precautionary measures to hopefully help protect children and teachers plus the people they go home to, or schools going back with no precautions and hoping the fallout is managable.

Unless you have any other ideas? How would you send children back to school whilst making sure the risk of the virus spreading through the kids and teaching staff is minimal?


----------



## Jesthar

Read an interesting article today - a US company simulated the spread of viral load in an enclosed office environment in preparation for returning to the office. They've released a couple of short videos of the simulations:

Infected coughing without a mask:





Infected coughing with a mask:





It's really quite fascinating, and illustrates very well why indoor open plan envionments are one of the riskiest environments to be in for a protracted length of time.

https://www.holt.com/covid-19-simulation-indoors/


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> It doesn't get any better, does it. This is Wat Khlong Toei School in Bangkok. Are we OK with this, too?


That's an odd question LOL! 
Do you think anyone is okay with a pandemic? That people are enjoying this? That there is any joy in separating pupils and wearing masks so no one can see you smile? What an odd thing to ask.

No, this is not okay. Nothing about this pandemic is okay. But we *will* be okay eventually, and yes, things *will* get better. I refuse to go down the doom and gloom path.

If these are the protective measures we need to make sure kids get to go to school, then so be it. It won't last forever, and what if in the process our kids learn resilience and resourcefulness? Won't be the worst thing. Some of the best growth comes from overcoming adversity. If we can support each other and our kids through this, I believe we will come out better and stronger in the end. And yes, this *will* end.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

It's a simple message. Look after the aged and vulnerable and let the children play and learn together. Not mask and isolate them. Have we learned nothing from the first few months?

Herd immunity is still key in the fight against Covid-19


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Heres's another germ laden mask I found on my walk yesterday morning. One of my dogs even appeared out of a wheat field carrying one a month or so back.


----------



## Boxer123

samuelsmiles3 said:


> It's a simple message. Look after the aged and vulnerable and let the children play and learn together. Not mask and isolate them. Have we learned nothing from the first few months?
> 
> Herd immunity is still key in the fight against Covid-19


But children haven't been separated in the uk schools have been open all the way through the pandemic. In September the advice is to get all children back to school. Schools have worked very hard to ensure this be done safely.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> That's an odd question LOL!
> Do you think anyone is okay with a pandemic? That people are enjoying this? That there is any joy in separating pupils and wearing masks so no one can see you smile? What an odd thing to ask.
> 
> No, this is not okay. Nothing about this pandemic is okay. But we *will* be okay eventually, and yes, things *will* get better. I refuse to go down the doom and gloom path.
> 
> If these are the protective measures we need to make sure kids get to go to school, then so be it. It won't last forever, and what if in the process our kids learn resilience and resourcefulness? Won't be the worst thing. Some of the best growth comes from overcoming adversity. If we can support each other and our kids through this, I believe we will come out better and stronger in the end. And yes, this *will* end.


Exactly! As a very young child I well remember wearing a mask and living with the uncertainty that because of the war I might never see my daddy again or we might be killed by a bomb or Britain might lose the war.

We survived and I don't think I'm any worse for the experience. But of course I'm just an old dodderer, so what do I know? 










https://www.military-history.org/articles/gas-mask.htm

*Gas Mask: a cultural icon*


----------



## samuelsmiles3

You take a walk in the woods to escape this insanity, but there is no escape from the 'new normal'. Just get used to it.


----------



## SbanR

Jesthar said:


> Read an interesting article today - a US company simulated the spread of viral load in an enclosed office environment in preparation for returning to the office. They've released a couple of short videos of the simulations:
> 
> Infected coughing without a mask:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infected coughing with a mask:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's really quite fascinating, and illustrates very well why indoor open plan envionments are one of the riskiest environments to be in for a protracted length of time.
> 
> https://www.holt.com/covid-19-simulation-indoors/


Thank you. Very interesting.
Going to share your link.


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> Exactly! As a very young child I well remember wearing a mask and living with the uncertainty that because of the war I might never see my daddy again or we might be killed by a bomb or Britain might lose the war.
> 
> We survived and I don't think I'm any worse for the experience. But of course I'm just an old dodderer, so what do I know?


I was talking to my parents the other day about all the people swarming tourist spots and complaining they cant go abroad when they want and we were reminiscing about 'holidays' when I was a kid....if you were very lucky you got a day trip or two the local beach or woods and that was it! Nobody went abroad for holidays.
I think this generation really hasnt had to cope with any hardships on the whole (obv not including those below the poverty line who life will always suck for).

I mean there are people in the world today living in fear of bombs, guns, being 'disappeared' for their political/religious views or being kidnapped and forced into slave labor and yet people in more civilised countries are still moaning that a piece of cloth on their face affects their civil rights pr is just too inconvenient. 
Maybe we should just appreciate what we have more and accept that life will always have some limitations.


----------



## Lurcherlad

samuelsmiles3 said:


> You take a walk in the woods to escape this insanity, but there is no escape from the 'new normal'. Just get used to it.
> View attachment 446610


Unfortunately it's just a new type of litter to discard on the ground for some people. Sadly, that will never change 

Scumbugs are always scumbags.


----------



## Happy Paws2

catz4m8z said:


> Maybe we should just appreciate what we have more and accept that life will always have some limitations.


And would really be that bad if they didn't have a holiday this year. We haven't had one for years, dog and health reasons and it hasn't killed us.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> How would you send children back to school


I understand what you are saying, but what strikes me as strange is that day nurseries went back at the beginning of June, but not schools. I have to imagine this was because most nurseries are businesses. I think getting toddlers to stay apart from each other must be more difficult than explaining the reasons to older children.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> I understand what you are saying, but what strikes me as strange is that day nurseries went back at the beginning of June, but not schools. I have to imagine this was because most nurseries are businesses. I think getting toddlers to stay apart from each other must be more difficult than explaining the reasons to older children.


Schools were open in June years R,1 &6 some special schools at normal capacity with all year groups.


----------



## Calvine

samuelsmiles3 said:


> You take a walk in the woods to escape this insanity, but there is no escape from the 'new normal'. Just get used to it.
> View attachment 446610


I've actually seen a couple on the ground, but they looked brand new, as though someone had dropped it while trying to take one out, and either didn't know they had dropped them, or could not be arsed to pick them up. What, by the way, is the acceptable way to dispose of used ones? Landfill . . . all the millions of them?


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I've actually seen a couple on the ground, but they looked brand new, as though someone had dropped it while trying to take one out, and either didn't know they had dropped them, or could not be arsed to pick them up. What, by the way, is the acceptable way to dispose of used ones? Landfill . . . all the millions of them?


If there's going to be litter left on the ground I'd far rather it was a mask than used condoms or hypodermic needles which I regularly found in the park where I took my children when they were young.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> Schools were open in June years R,1 &6 some special schools at normal capacity with all year groups.


 I remember that, but I'm talking about all schools open normally. Parents at that time did not send their children to school if they chose not to. The way they did it was quite strange, parents would have one child at school and (possibly) one at home. A week ago I had to take some stuff over to a friend of mine; at 11.30 her 14-year-old daughter was in bed and mother said she had hardly anything to do. . . maybe the girl was just saying that rather than get up - who knows.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> I remember that, but I'm talking about all schools open normally. The way they did it was quite strange, parents would have one child at school and (possibly) one at home. A week ago I had to take some stuff over to a friend of mine; at 11.30 her 14-year-old daughter was in bed and mother said she had nothing to do. . . maybe the girl was just saying that rather than get up - who knows.


When I was a teen my mum would always ask what I had done at school my answer was always the same 'nothing'


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> I understand what you are saying, but what strikes me as strange is that day nurseries went back at the beginning of June, but not schools. I have to imagine this was because most nurseries are businesses. I think getting toddlers to stay apart from each other must be more difficult than explaining the reasons to older children.


True enough (past a certain age, I wouldn't trust most kids in the first few years of school to remember to social distance reliably  ), but it's also a question of scale. Nursuries are usually pretty small with a high ratio of staff to keep an eye on things. Schools can often have several hundred kids with relatively few staff, and many classrooms are very crowded with no mechanical ventilation systems like you get in offices. The videos I posted show how that can be a big risk even with mitigation measures, especially if you're spending more than a short time in an enclosed environment.

I have NHS staff in my family, so their children have carried on going to school in some fashion throughout lockdown with protective measures and it's been fine. The problem is, the potective measures don't scale to handle even half of the usual school population of your average school.

I'm not going to pretend I have the answers. I don't. But I'm pretty sure that saying 'stuff it, we'll risk it and keep our fingers crossed' shouldn't be one of the options on the table.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Schools were open in June years R,1 &6 some special schools at normal capacity with all year groups.


My DIL works at a residential school for autistic children and she started back at work just over a month ago. She only stopped working because my son being a type 1 diabetic is in the vulnerable group.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> When I was a teen my mum would always ask what I had done at school my answer was always the same 'nothing'


 Difficult to tell: some parents say the staff have been amazing: at one near me, the parents clubbed together and bought a huge banner to put on the school gate, then you see the story where a (well-respected) headmistress was suspended for saying her staff were watching Netflix all day!!


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Masks made mandatory in shops and supermarkets July 24th.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Interesting piece from The Times.

Covid wards empty as virus death toll plunges

"Last week, some hospitals did not have a single coronavirus patient on their wards, with one top doctor suggesting that Britain is "almost reaching herd immunity".


----------



## Magyarmum

Hungarian Government request issued today!

https://koronavirus.gov.hu/cikkek/l...S2P2OuYhh4kijnqa04f2G5vZTAx5F5QlWVoep9SPPUu9c

*The most important defense now is that those who have symptoms should not go into the community!*
_August 11, 2020 - 11:20 am_

New infections diagnosed in recent days warn that the most important way to prevent it now is for those who have symptoms not to go into the community. Most of the new infections that have occurred recently can be traced back to the fact that many who, although they noticed the symptoms themselves, did not take them seriously enough and nevertheless went to more or less family and friends gatherings where they infected others. So, in addition to avoiding risky trips abroad and using the mask and distance required in shops and public transportation, one of the most effective forms of protection is to remain vigilant and disciplined and take the signs of the coronavirus seriously, whether or not you have been abroad. If we follow this,

It is therefore important to continue to pay attention to the symptoms of the coronavirus, the best known of which are fever, fatigue, and dry cough. Some patients may experience muscle pain, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat, diarrhea, shortness of breath. In addition, one of the characteristic symptoms of a new coronavirus infection is a disturbance or loss of taste and smell perception, which is often the only symptom. If someone notices the listed symptoms in person, please stay at home, do not go to the community. Do not see your GP in person, but call them by phone. If a coronavirus infection is suspected based on a telephone interview with a GP, but the patient does not require hospitalization based on the symptoms, he or she will be quarantined at home. If symptoms are severe (eg dyspnoea, pneumonia), the GP will arrange for the patient to be hospitalized.

Thanks to the cooperation of the Hungarian people, this vigilance, discipline and responsibility for others worked well in the first phase of the defense, and if we continue to adhere to it, it will be possible to avoid further restrictions that will make our lives more difficult.

_Coronavirus Press Center_


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Interesting piece from The Times.
> 
> Covid wards empty as virus death toll plunges
> 
> "Last week, some hospitals did not have a single coronavirus patient on their wards, with one top doctor suggesting that Britain is "almost reaching herd immunity".


Herd immunity is not likely to happen with covid-19 for multiple reasons. 
For one, it's contagious, but not contagious enough to infect enough people to achieve herd immunity. (Lowest estimate you'd need is 50% of the population, even in Sweden where they've tried to reach herd immunity, they only have 6% of the population testing positive for antibodies. 
Also, coronaviruses are pretty good at infecting people more than once. There is no reason to believe this coronavirus will be different. We haven't achieved herd immunity to the common cold....
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...chers-say-herd-immunity-may-never-be-achieved

That said, I'm still extremely hopeful that this crisis will eventually have a good outcome. There is a global effort to come up with a vaccine and/or effective treatment. How cool would it be if in the process of finding a good antiviral treatment for covid-19 we find a cure for other viruses that have plagued mankind like the common cold or herpes? What if in the process of figuring out an effective vaccine we figure out a vaccine for other viruses that have eluded us like HIV? 
I still think good can come out of this.


----------



## Guest

Hey everyone, how is the situation in your countries right now? Is the pandemic getting to the end? Or maybe second wave is coming?
In Lithuania where I live, it looks like second wave is starting, because numbers of cases ar growing and we are back to must wearing masks in all public places inside, even though goverment cancelled the quarantine in the middle of june :/


----------



## Siskin

Apparently the Russians have come up with a vaccine they reckon that has passed human trials and will soon be used on people. Scientists fear that human trials have been rushed and not enough is known about side effects.
Would you have this innocualtion?


----------



## Siskin

AGASLO said:


> Hey everyone, how is the situation in your countries right now? Is the pandemic getting to the end? Or maybe second wave is coming?
> In Lithuania where I live, it looks like second wave is starting, because numbers of cases ar growing and we are back to must wearing masks in all public places inside, even though goverment cancelled the quarantine in the middle of june :/


The number of cases in the U.K. is rising a little, but more people are being tested which may account for this. However there does seem to be 'hot spots' in certain towns and cities where there have been more cases and these places have been put into local lockdowns.
Where I live there are only 1 on average new cases a day and the hospitals don't have any patients suffering from the virus

I also saw a report that New Zealand has had 4 new cases of the virus (all family members) after 102 days of being virus free. Currently it is not known how the family has us come as they have not been out of the country and not knowingly mixed with anyone that has


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Herd immunity is not likely to happen with covid-19 for multiple reasons.
> For one, it's contagious, but not contagious enough to infect enough people to achieve herd immunity. (Lowest estimate you'd need is 50% of the population, even in Sweden where they've tried to reach herd immunity, they only have 6% of the population testing positive for antibodies.
> Also, coronaviruses are pretty good at infecting people more than once. There is no reason to believe this coronavirus will be different. We haven't achieved herd immunity to the common cold....
> https://www.npr.org/sections/health...chers-say-herd-immunity-may-never-be-achieved
> 
> That said, I'm still extremely hopeful that this crisis will eventually have a good outcome. There is a global effort to come up with a vaccine and/or effective treatment. How cool would it be if in the process of finding a good antiviral treatment for covid-19 we find a cure for other viruses that have plagued mankind like the common cold or herpes? What if in the process of figuring out an effective vaccine we figure out a vaccine for other viruses that have eluded us like HIV?
> I still think good can come out of this.


I'm extremely skeptical about herd immunity because there are too many unknowns and variables with the virus. A very good article which IMO is worth reading.

https://www.livescience.com/herd-immunity.html

*What is herd immunity?*


----------



## Magyarmum

AGASLO said:


> Hey everyone, how is the situation in your countries right now? Is the pandemic getting to the end? Or maybe second wave is coming?n
> In Lithuania where I live, it looks like second wave is starting, because numbers of cases ar growing and we are back to must wearing masks in all public places inside, even though goverment cancelled the quarantine in the middle of june :/


Hi and welcome to the forum.

I'm in Hungary and it looked towards the end of July that the pandemic was ending because we had several days with no or few new cases and no deaths. Over the past week although deaths have not increased, the number of new cases has risen from 4 or 5 a day to 35 and 40. It's thought the increase in new cases is mainly due to the borders being open again with an influx of tourists from neighbouring countries. We have been warned that should new cases continue to increase we'll have to go back into lock down again.


----------



## MilleD

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Masks made mandatory in shops and supermarkets July 24th.
> View attachment 446748


I've heard a lot of people bitching about the late incoming rule about the masks.

But isn't it _just possible_, that there is a correlation between the mask rule and the fact that a week later, shielding was paused?

People like me haven't been in a shop since March. Do you not think there is a _possibility_ that the mask rule is to make those who have been shielding less risk of catching it from someone in a supermarket now that we have been 'let out'?

Maybe?


----------



## Siskin

It’s interesting how there is this group of people who think that their civil liberties are being infringed because they are being asked to wear a mask

They presumably buckle up their seatbelts in a car
Wear a helmet on a motorbike
And so on

But when asked to wear a mask in order to protect others then suddenly their freedom of choice is paramount.

The only reason I can think of is that those people who object to wearing a mask are only thinking of themselves

How selfish


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> The only reason I can think of is that those people who object to wearing a mask are only thinking of themselves
> 
> How selfish


I've only been thinking of myself for a while now, its the only thing I can control.
At the beginning, and possibly still but not so much stated on social media anymore, everyone was bitching about everyone being too close, having gatherings when they shouldn't etc.
I made a conscious decision to not get hung up on it and focus on what I was doing instead.


----------



## lullabydream

Just popping in to the party.. I feel unwell. Have a new cough. Its not bad but its new, and it's there. Keep taking my temperature its OK. However my breathing is slightly on the crap side. The cough doesn't feel like asthma cough, and my breathing is going in waves and am tired. So yes covid test for us all and isolating.

What I will say it doesn't or wouldn't surprise me if any of us have covid. In my area haven't been badly hit at all, I mean cases in hundred and deaths in tens.. So not badly affected.

Past few days local news have said its worrying that more people are being affected. I mean we are talking figures 6/7 daily but we were lucky here..

I have to agree with @Magyarmum post about still be aware of symptoms, of @O2.0 that herd immunity wouldn't be near yet so don't get lax per se.

@Siskin I love your post about people wearing masks. It's ridiculous for something so small isn't it.

@Arny I guess you do you as they say...

***disclaimer I am positive even though cases are rising here. I have got a chest infection or something. I don't think it's Covid-19 at all but due to the cough, and some symptoms I thought it was wise to get tested and not just presume it's not Covid-19 and carry on regardless. Although I think a lot do.. My opinion obviously because I don't feel totally unwell ****


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> Just popping in to the party.. I feel unwell. Have a new cough. Its not bad but its new, and it's there. Keep taking my temperature its OK. However my breathing is slightly on the crap side. The cough doesn't feel like asthma cough, and my breathing is going in waves and am tired. So yes covid test for us all and isolating.
> 
> What I will say it doesn't or wouldn't surprise me if any of us have covid. In my area haven't been badly hit at all, I mean cases in hundred and deaths in tens.. So not badly affected.
> 
> Past few days local news have said its worrying that more people are being affected. I mean we are talking figures 6/7 daily but we were lucky here..
> 
> I have to agree with @Magyarmum post about still be aware of symptoms, of @O2.0 that herd immunity wouldn't be near yet so don't get lax per se.
> 
> @Siskin I love your post about people wearing masks. It's ridiculous for something so small isn't it.
> 
> @Arny I guess you do you as they say...
> 
> ***disclaimer I am positive even though cases are rising here. I have got a chest infection or something. I don't think it's Covid-19 at all but due to the cough, and some symptoms I thought it was wise to get tested and not just presume it's not Covid-19 and carry on regardless. Although I think a lot do.. My opinion obviously because I don't feel totally unwell ****


Good for you for getting the test and for acting so responsibly. Having said that I'm really sorry it's been necessary and you're having to go through all the worry. Hoping you get the result asap and it's negative, but whatever the result, remember you have people here who will support you.
((hugs)).


----------



## Arny

A family member thought they'd had it in March but obviously they'd stopped testing the wider public then.
Well they signed up for the plasma donation trial and its been confirmed they have antibodies, in sufficient quantity to be useful.
Hopefully this might turn into a useful treatment for the worst effected.
I know this trial has been going a little while but no idea on what the results are looking like.


----------



## rona

Anyone else done the survey?
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/


----------



## samuelsmiles3

I've read plenty of evidence that points to the damage that the lockdowns around the world are doing, but this article really clarifies everything for me. What the hell are we doing to ourselves. In particular, what are we doing to our children. Nothing good is going to come of this. Just so dispiriting.

The Lockdown Lobotomy

"Ultimately, the state's response to COVID-19 is indefensible and a terrifying portent of what's to come. It has engendered disconnection through social distancing, isolation through lockdown, and deindividuation through face masks - with signs pointing to social deterioration and psychological damage as a result. This is to say nothing of the devastating impact on the economy and, worse, human life".

But, I'm on my own with this here, I can see. Just make yourself a pretty mask and get on with your new normal.


----------



## mrs phas

Ross (youngest) dragged me out for a meal tonight
No sign of any contact tracing forms and no one asked our name, address or phone number
So the point is?


----------



## O2.0

Hope you feel better soon @lullabydream 
I dremeled Bates nails last night, normally I do it outside but it's miserable hot, so I did it inside with my face right near his feet and of course inhaled nail dust (he has giant feet, giant, thick nails, and the process does generate a lot of fine dust). Long story short I woke up this morning with irritated nose and throat, immediately panicked, thought about cancelling lunch with my friend scheduled today. Then I had a cup of coffee, went for a run, and realized duh, it's the nail dust.
It's going to be a while before we have any airway symptoms without panicking 



Magyarmum said:


> I'm extremely skeptical about herd immunity because there are too many unknowns and variables with the virus. A very good article which IMO is worth reading.
> 
> https://www.livescience.com/herd-immunity.html
> 
> *What is herd immunity?*


Yes, I read that article too, very informative.

@samuelsmiles3 I don't know if we'll ever know what was the right approach. The US never really locked down. Some states had some stay at home orders, but for us here in the southeast, we didn't really stop much. For a while restaurants and non-essential businesses closed, but most of us went about our lives as normal - largely mask-less for a while. Then around June we started seeing a surge of cases, started seeing more masks, but by then the governor had already opened up restrictions and wasn't about to go back to closing things down. 
Now most (all) businesses require masks but other than that, we're at business as usual. Example: today I went to a routine doctor's appointment (mask), stopped by work and knocked out some paperwork (mask), had lunch inside with friends (no mask), ran to the grocery store (mask), took daughter to get her glasses fitted (mask).

The US is doing very poorly when it comes to handling the pandemic. We've had the most deaths per capita of any other developed nation (or close to it). Is it because we didn't seriously lock down, is it because we didn't require masks, is it because we have a generally very unhealthy population? All of the above? I don't know, and I don't know if we'll ever know.

What I do know is that wearing a mask is no hardship. I find articles like the one you posted equally fear-mongering as the constant ticker-tape barrage of updates on new cases the media feels compelled to focus on. 
As I've said over and over, the antidote to hysteria about covid-19 is not more hysteria in the other direction. It's valid, data-based information and sound science. There is a lot to learn here, we need to step back, and let those who have been studying disease and epidemiology their whole lives do their thing without pressuring them with politics and personal opinions.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

O2.0 said:


> Hope you feel better soon @lullabydream
> I dremeled Bates nails last night, normally I do it outside but it's miserable hot, so I did it inside with my face right near his feet and of course inhaled nail dust (he has giant feet, giant, thick nails, and the process does generate a lot of fine dust). Long story short I woke up this morning with irritated nose and throat, immediately panicked, thought about cancelling lunch with my friend scheduled today. Then I had a cup of coffee, went for a run, and realized duh, it's the nail dust.
> It's going to be a while before we have any airway symptoms without panicking
> 
> Yes, I read that article too, very informative.
> 
> @samuelsmiles3 I don't know if we'll ever know what was the right approach. The US never really locked down. Some states had some stay at home orders, but for us here in the southeast, we didn't really stop much. For a while restaurants and non-essential businesses closed, but most of us went about our lives as normal - largely mask-less for a while. Then around June we started seeing a surge of cases, started seeing more masks, but by then the governor had already opened up restrictions and wasn't about to go back to closing things down.
> Now most (all) businesses require masks but other than that, we're at business as usual. Example: today I went to a routine doctor's appointment (mask), stopped by work and knocked out some paperwork (mask), had lunch inside with friends (no mask), ran to the grocery store (mask), took daughter to get her glasses fitted (mask).
> 
> The US is doing very poorly when it comes to handling the pandemic. We've had the most deaths per capita of any other developed nation (or close to it). Is it because we didn't seriously lock down, is it because we didn't require masks, is it because we have a generally very unhealthy population? All of the above? I don't know, and I don't know if we'll ever know.
> 
> What I do know is that wearing a mask is no hardship. I find articles like the one you posted equally fear-mongering as the constant ticker-tape barrage of updates on new cases the media feels compelled to focus on.
> As I've said over and over, the antidote to hysteria about covid-19 is not more hysteria in the other direction. It's valid, data-based information and sound science. There is a lot to learn here, we need to step back, and let those who have been studying disease and epidemiology their whole lives do their thing without pressuring them with politics and personal opinions.


"_What I do know is that wearing a mask is no hardship."_

For you. Not a hardship for you. You didn't read the article, then.


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> You didn't read the article, then.


I did, which is why I said I find it equally alarmist. If wearing a mask is going to make me lose my identity, turn me in to an anarchist, pervert, or criminal.... Yeah, I don't even know what to say to that. It's just as extreme as freaking out over every new positive case recorded.

Mask wearing is not going to turn us in to The Lord of the Flies. 
We've already done that pitting one side against the other. Stop trying to find fault with everything and how 'bout we all just do what we can to help out our fellow humans? As far as I can tell, me wearing a mask when appropriate is a good way to avoid potentially infecting someone else in case that dremel dust was more than just dremel dust. If I wake up a pervert tomorrow from all the mask wearing I did today I'll report back here


----------



## samuelsmiles3

O2.0 said:


> I did, which is why I said I find it equally alarmist. If wearing a mask is going to make me lose my identity, turn me in to an anarchist, pervert, or criminal.... Yeah, I don't even know what to say to that. It's just as extreme as freaking out over every new positive case recorded.
> 
> Mask wearing is not going to turn us in to The Lord of the Flies.
> We've already done that pitting one side against the other. Stop trying to find fault with everything and how 'bout we all just do what we can to help out our fellow humans? As far as I can tell, me wearing a mask when appropriate is a good way to avoid potentially infecting someone else in case that dremel dust was more than just dremel dust. If I wake up a pervert tomorrow from all the mask wearing I did today I'll report back here


"Stop trying to find fault with everything". That's funny, considering most everything I post is attacked. Hopefully, when you wake up tomorrow, you will realise that lockdowns have never worked in any country, and the damage being done will far, far outweigh any benefits (of which there are none). I think you know this, though.


----------



## StormyThai

samuelsmiles3 said:


> deindividuation through face masks


Considering myself and many, many others have personalized masks









And we are still able to dress individually I find that statement quite ridiculous tbh


----------



## Rafa

mrs phas said:


> Ross (youngest) dragged me out for a meal tonight
> No sign of any contact tracing forms and no one asked our name, address or phone number
> So the point is?


A little confused by this.

You went out for a meal, so you want someone to take all your contact details in case they should have a confirmed case?

I would say be responsible for yourself.


----------



## kimthecat

Rafa said:


> A little confused by this.
> 
> You went out for a meal, so you want someone to take all your contact details in case they should have a confirmed case?
> 
> I would say be responsible for yourself.


I dont understand . We're supposed to offer our details and they dont ask us?


----------



## Jobeth

I’ve been for a couple of meals out to different places and each one asked for contact details. I thought they were supposed to do this.


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> That's funny, considering most everything I post is attacked.


I didn't see any attacks? 
Disagreement sure, but not agreeing with everything someone says doesn't constitute an attack.


----------



## Arny

Jobeth said:


> I've been for a couple of meals out to different places and each one asked for contact details. I thought they were supposed to do this.


I thought so too.
I went out for the first time tonight as well and they didn't ask but they have our email from the online booking. We were two households though so they don't have the other parties details. I'm not sure whether they're meant to have everyone's.


----------



## Jobeth

It seems that it's only guidance in England.


----------



## Arny

lullabydream said:


> @Arny I guess you do you as they say...


It wasn't meant to be in such a horrible way 'I'm being selfish' but early on I started to feel a little stressed with a lot not doing strict lockdown. Just little things here and there.
I wasn't worried about the virus per se but think it was just information overload at the time and I've realised I'm a stickler for rules.
To stop anxiety forming I decided I would ignore what others were doing, I can't control that but can I can be responsible myself.
I'm certainly much happier for it and I do think that's important.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Rafa said:


> A little confused by this.
> 
> You went out for a meal, so you want someone to take all your contact details in case they should have a confirmed case?
> 
> I would say be responsible for yourself.


 Businesses including restaurants, pubs and cafes are supposed to be taking customer contact details and storing them for 21 days in order to assist with NHS track and trace system if required. Its not confusing it`s just what they should be doing according to government guidelines.


----------



## Arny

Jobeth said:


> View attachment 446799
> 
> It seems that it's only guidance in England.


Of course it is, what with our world beating track and trace system


----------



## Sandysmum

Although I've started going out once or twice a week, I'm still a bit nervous and don't like getting too close to people. When I go to the shops, it's always just after opening when it's quiet, and I use my own mini bottle of sanitiser that's clipped onto my bag.
I've eaten out twice since the 'eat out to help out' scheme started. Both times were to places that I'd been to before and at their quite time. Both were fully covid ready and took our details as soon as we sat down.

It is a bit strange, seeing most people all masked up, but tbh I'd rather see people wearing them than not. I don't know how long all this is going to go on for, but I do understand why we have to do these things. Better playing it safe than being ill or even dead .


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Massachusetts has just introduced new rules enforcing mandatory mask wearing even in your own back yard if you have more than ten people in it. They recommend that everyone, including children over 2 years old (yes, you read that right - 2 years old) should wear them. But it's no hardship, just make the mask out of a pretty material and tell her it's the 'new normal'. It's for the greater good.

Lockdowns don't work, sensible, calm measures, like those adopted by Sweden _do_ work - the evidence is overwhelming. For how much longer should we keep introducing these draconian measures? A year, two years, maybe 5 years until we have a safe vaccine? For god's sake, just take care of the aged and vulnerable who make up the vast, vast majority who die with this virus and stop causing untold economical, mental and social to damage to the rest of society. Including the poor young children caught up in this utter madness.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

O2.0 said:


> I didn't see any attacks?
> Disagreement sure, but not agreeing with everything someone says doesn't constitute an attack.


Ok, so me debating with a different point of view is just me "trying to find fault with everything".

Got you.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

An excellent thread that compares the results of the enforced lockdowns in Norway, Finland and Denmark with the more relaxed approach by Sweden.

"If the success of lockdowns is proven by lower mortality in Denmark, Norway, and Finland than in Sweden, then this should hold true in the Oresund region crossing Denmark and southern Sweden. *In fact, Covid-19 mortality across the region is about the same".*


----------



## mrs phas

Rafa said:


> A little confused by this.
> 
> You went out for a meal, so you want someone to take all your contact details in case they should have a confirmed case?
> 
> I would say be responsible for yourself.


I am, 
which is why I spent 15 weeks in isolation as per guidance from GP and government, despite the effect on my mh
I was under the impression that contact tracing was 'a thing' for all restaraunts/pubs/cafes etc (thank you to those who corrected me in that it's not mandatory)
THATS what surprised me, the complete lack of it and lack of mask wearing whilst waiting for service
Despite that confusion, on my part, I enjoyed my meal and the chance to socialise outside, I even accepted a hug from someone who was pleased to see me
After all I'm a Sharon, not a Karen


----------



## Jobeth

I assumed it was mandatory as well. The council where I live has even employed staff to monitor the ‘one in one out’ policy for public toilets in the county parks. I’m on the border of another council and they haven’t done the same for their county park.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Currently, in Sweden, there are just 32 ICU beds being used for Covid19 patients. They achieved this without the draconian measures so many are encouraging.

Eta. Death rates in ICU patients have now decreased from 43%, when the pandemic was at its height, to about 20% today.


----------



## Nonnie

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Currently, in Sweden, there are just 32 ICU beds being used for Covid19 patients. They achieved this without the draconian measures so many are encouraging.


You seem a bit obsessed with Sweden. They have one of the highest deaths rates relative to population size in the whole of Europe.


----------



## SbanR

[QUOTE="samuelsmiles3, post: 1065653975, member: Hopefully, when you wake up tomorrow, you will realise that lockdowns have never worked in any country, .[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression it was very successful in New Zealand


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Nonnie said:


> You seem a bit obsessed with Sweden. They have one of the highest deaths rates relative to population size in the whole of Europe.


Did you read my post #6532? I'm not obsessed with Sweden. I'm obsessed with getting things right before we cause any more unnecessary damage.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> After all I'm a Sharon, not a Karen


Not seen Sharon in use yet. I assume that's the opposite of a Karen . I tried to find the male equivalent of Karen and it seems it is Kyle ( in the US at least ) though I havent see it used. Kevin would be my choice.


----------



## Magyarmum

Nonnie said:


> You seem a bit obsessed with Sweden. They have one of the highest deaths rates relative to population size in the whole of Europe.


Sweden has 571 deaths per 1 million population which is higher than the US at 506 and Brazil at 485 per 1 million population.

Hungary with a similar population to Sweden but with a population density 4 times that of Sweden has only 63 deaths per 1 million population.


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Did you read my post #6532? I'm not obsessed with Sweden. I'm obsessed with getting things right before we cause any more unnecessary damage.


Perhaps you should read this......

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/historical-precedents-lockdown-quarantine

*HOW DO THE QUARANTINE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMPARE TO THE COVID-19 RESPONSE?*

COVID-19 has triggered lockdown measures for billions of people around the world. As many of us struggle to adapt to the 'new normal', we look at the origins of quarantine measures - and how they've been used to contain deadly outbreaks for centuries.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

My link in post 6532# has an interesting perspective on this.

Your source is The Vaccine Alliance. Why wouldn't they push this insanity?

"If the success of lockdowns is proven by lower mortality in Denmark, Norway, and Finland than in Sweden, then this should hold true in the Oresund region crossing Denmark and southern Sweden. *In fact, Covid-19 mortality across the region is about the same"*


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Magyarmum said:


> Sweden has 571 deaths per 1 million population which is higher than the US at 506 and Brazil at 485 per 1 million population.
> 
> Hungary with a similar population to Sweden but with a population density 4 times that of Sweden has only 63 deaths per 1 million population.





Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps you should read this......
> 
> https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/historical-precedents-lockdown-quarantine
> 
> *HOW DO THE QUARANTINE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMPARE TO THE COVID-19 RESPONSE?*
> 
> COVID-19 has triggered lockdown measures for billions of people around the world. As many of us struggle to adapt to the 'new normal', we look at the origins of quarantine measures - and how they've been used to contain deadly outbreaks for centuries.


From the same source -

"Thus, *countries that have had strict lockdown restrictions may be suffering economic devastation now, only to see more deaths in the future. *However, if a safe and effective vaccine is put into widespread use, and prevents infections delayed by lockdowns, those deaths may not happen at all".


----------



## StormyThai

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps you should read this......
> 
> https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/historical-precedents-lockdown-quarantine
> 
> *HOW DO THE QUARANTINE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMPARE TO THE COVID-19 RESPONSE?*
> 
> COVID-19 has triggered lockdown measures for billions of people around the world. As many of us struggle to adapt to the 'new normal', we look at the origins of quarantine measures - and how they've been used to contain deadly outbreaks for centuries.


That's really interesting, thank you for posting it.

I love the "wine windows" mentioned in Tuscany


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Massachusetts has just introduced new rules enforcing mandatory mask wearing even in your own back yard if you have more than ten people in it. They recommend that everyone, including children over 2 years old (yes, you read that right - 2 years old) should wear them. But it's no hardship, just make the mask out of a pretty material and tell her it's the 'new normal'. It's for the greater good.


Massachusetts is a state, not a country. And they've had mask rules in place since May IIRC. My mom lives there and I know she was freaking out about how lax we are here about 1000 miles to the south. In may we definitely weren't wearing masks here. Maybe a few people here and there, but nothing widespread, and it was in May that we started opening things back up.

I'm still very amused at this worry over wearing masks and what it does to young children. In large swaths of the world it gets cold enough in the winter that most people walk around outside with most of their face covered.










If it were that much of a worry to spend months having to cover your face before you went outside, I think we would know about it by now


----------



## ForestWomble

Magyarmum said:


> Perhaps you should read this......
> 
> https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/historical-precedents-lockdown-quarantine
> 
> *HOW DO THE QUARANTINE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMPARE TO THE COVID-19 RESPONSE?*
> 
> COVID-19 has triggered lockdown measures for billions of people around the world. As many of us struggle to adapt to the 'new normal', we look at the origins of quarantine measures - and how they've been used to contain deadly outbreaks for centuries.


That was really interesting, thank you. Like @StormyThai I liked the windows in Tuscany bit.

@samuelsmiles3 I read your link and yes, lockdown, isolation, social distancing etc is having an impact on mental health, I'd be surprised if it wasn't really, I personally know people who have suffered with anxiety through this who have never suffered before, and of course it isn't good. Unless someone makes a time machine or finds some way of looking into the future, we won't know the long term impact until we get there, however I honestly don't see how we could of reacted any differently, as @Magyarmum 's link showed, what we are doing now has happened plenty of times with other pandemics.
Maybe, just maybe the long term impact might be a greater understanding of mental health, maybe it'll be easier to get help, maybe we will come out of this stronger with a better community spirit like they had during the War. Or maybe your link might show the truth and we'll have a generation who will be blaming us for years for how we dealt with this, we just don't know.
For me though, I'm glad we didn't follow Sweden. every death is one death too many, but the numbers would be far, far higher if we'd just carried on, no masks etc. I'd rather get through this alive and my loved ones alive, then be dead or morning a loved one.

Edited to add: I know I do, and I'm sure plenty of others feel safer due to the measures in place, I honestly believe no measures would have a greater impact on mental health in that we'd have a potential high percentage of people too frightened to leave their homes if masks weren't being worn and an extremely high percentage of people grieving one or more family members and friends who would have died, possibly even ending with far to many children orphaned.


----------



## O2.0

Back in 2017, people with asthma being encouraged to cover their nose and mouth with a scarf in winter to prevent asthma attacks. Including children.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42199200


----------



## Siskin

I think any anxiety I would have due to lockdown, isolating, masks and anything else you can think of @samuelsmiles3 that seems to have been totally the wrong things to do would be far outweighed if nothing had been done at all. I wouldn't have gone into the garden let alone along the road.
I can honestly say I have not become anxious, upset, depressed or suffered any kind of mental torment due to lockdown and wearing a mask, I've been thankful and relieved. I've had other things to become anxious, upset, depressed about 5his year, and I didn't allow that too happen.
Maybe I'm a positive thinker and don't dwell too much on what may or may not happen. I could have easily descended into a pit of despair this year especially with the added worry of covid 19, but I didn't. Having to stay in and shield and now wear a mask in certain situations didn't and currently doesn't worry me at all. I'm just happy to be alive.


----------



## O2.0

ForestWomble said:


> I know I do, and I'm sure plenty of others feel safer due to the measures in place, I honestly believe no measures would have a greater impact on mental health in that we'd have a potential high percentage of people too frightened to leave their homes if masks weren't being worn


This is exactly how I feel about mask wearing. If me wearing a mask makes someone else feel safer about going out and being near me, then I am happy to put that mask on. 
And I think you're right. A lot of people are frightened, if I can do anything to help ease that fear, I'm happy to do it.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

O2.0 said:


> Massachusetts is a state, not a country. And they've had mask rules in place since May IIRC. My mom lives there and I know she was freaking out about how lax we are here about 1000 miles to the south. In may we definitely weren't wearing masks here. Maybe a few people here and there, but nothing widespread, and it was in May that we started opening things back up.
> 
> I'm still very amused at this worry over wearing masks and what it does to young children. In large swaths of the world it gets cold enough in the winter that most people walk around outside with most of their face covered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it were that much of a worry to spend months having to cover your face before you went outside, I think we would know about it by now


"still very amused at this worry over wearing masks".

I'm sorry, but I don't find it amusing. Not least because of the fact that the evidence of their efficacy is so flimsy. It appears the images of young children in a school in Thailand wearing masks and isolated in plastic cages doesn't alarm anyone else here. I think I'm on my own?

I consider myself to be so lucky to be in the position I'm in. I still have an income, I live in rural countryside, can just walk out of my cottage and be in wide open spaces within seconds and can drive to other amazing places in minutes. Despite this it is difficult, so I can only imagine what it must be like for a single person with young children living in a little flat in the city somewhere. Maybe they've lost their job or business. No access to countryside. No income. It's frightening to think how some must be suffering from our approach to this virus. We didn't need to do it this way.

We now know where we went wrong the first time. We know who is at risk and who has absolutely minimal risk, and should be able to adapt our lifestyles to protect the vulnerable and let the rest live their lives without fear.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Massachusetts is a state, not a country. And they've had mask rules in place since May IIRC. My mom lives there and I know she was freaking out about how lax we are here about 1000 miles to the south. In may we definitely weren't wearing masks here. Maybe a few people here and there, but nothing widespread, and it was in May that we started opening things back up.
> 
> I'm still very amused at this worry over wearing masks and what it does to young children. In large swaths of the world it gets cold enough in the winter that most people walk around outside with most of their face covered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it were that much of a worry to spend months having to cover your face before you went outside, I think we would know about it by now


This article is by the same author who wrote "The Lockdown Lobotomy" which @samuelsmiles3 quoted.

https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/

*Face masks make you stupid*

Why face masks are a form of dehumanisation

Patrick Fagan who wrote both article is a lecturer in Consumer Psychology at the London College of Fashion which I would have thought, though it might make him qualified to write about face masks doesn't make him an authority on Sweden, Herd Immunity and the Covid-19 virus.

Two interesting reviews about the Critic Magazine where the above articles were published

https://medium.com/@claire.alleaume...-political-and-cultural-magazine-17f7c88e950e
*
A critique of The Critic, the UK's new political and cultural magazine*

https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/202...an-conservative-magazine-the-critic-makes-its

*Does Britain need another contrarian conservative magazine? The Critic makes its case*


----------



## samuelsmiles3

I haven't the energy for any more of this at the moment, Magyarmum.


----------



## O2.0

Ha ha! If you look at the original study quoted in the "Masks Make you Stupid" article, the participants wore a *disguise* not just a mask. 
I'd say stupid is not knowing the difference between a disguise and a partial face covering like a surgical mask. 

#stillamused 


Okay, but seriously. Is it concerning to see images of children in 'cages'? Of course it is. Is that sort of thing happening throughout Thailand, or was that just one example of multiple different ways of taking precautions? Is this happening in the UK? Other countries? In the US we have children in cages for other reasons 

Here's the thing. Taking precautions is a good thing. Any good thing can get out of hand, that doesn't mean it's not a good thing to take precautions, it just means we can't go overboard with it. Asking people to mask up so that businesses can open and stay open is not going overboard. Putting on a mask when you walk in to a building is not a hardship, you walk out, take it off, no biggie. 
If we find out months or years down the line that we were wrong and masks didn't do anything to help, okay, we learned something. But other than lots of crafty seamstresses earning some extra cash, and most of us learning how bad out breath really smells, no real consequence of adding masks to our daily routine.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Not seen Sharon in use yet. I assume that's the opposite of a Karen


Nope, at least I don't think so
It just happens to be my name:Happy


----------



## Boxer123

How are you feeling @lullabydream


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Nope, at least I don't think so
> It just happens to be my name:Happy


:Hilarious :Hilarious I didnt know that!


----------



## StormyThai

samuelsmiles3 said:


> evidence of their efficacy is so flimsy


Is it?

I thought the science on mask wearing was pretty clear.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

Granted, the media decided to make it confusing and at the start we didn't want panic buying of medical masks reducing availability to those at serious risk...but the science has always shown that face coverings reduce the droplet cloud.


----------



## O2.0

Yes, the media have really done a number on their credibility, though I get wanting to avoid panic buying - especially after how we behaved with toilet paper 
But seriously, how hard would it have been to say that masks do indeed help reduce the spread, but also explain not to panic buy, *and* explain that masks are to protect others, not yourself. Unless it's an N95 mask. Okay, never mind, that was a lot of information and we all know it doesn't fit in a headline... 

But you know, the other problem is that we live in a weirdly anti-science time. Where we put up debates over flat earth vs. round earth as if both sides of that argument have merit. Everyone has a right to an opinion and you can't tell me what to think. 
Next thing you know we're also giving voice to celebrities telling us that measles isn't that bad of a disease, and doctors who claim demon sperm is what gives you endometriosis. So then people throw up their hands and don't believe anything, not even the real science


----------



## stuaz

I think we should tell the doctors preforming operations and surgeries that they don't need to wear masks when doing so.

Clearly they don't do anything!


----------



## Arny

StormyThai said:


> Granted, the media decided to make it confusing


It wasn't the media, it was the government.


----------



## Magyarmum

Arny said:


> It wasn't the media, it was the government.


Actually it wasn't either.

It was Dr Margaret Harris the WHO's spokesperson who originally asked people not to go mad over buying masks,i,e surgical and N95 masks, in order that there were sufficient for essential healthcare workers. This was before it was discovered Covid-19 was an airborne disease and that people could be asymptomatic and spread the virus despite appearing to be perfectly healthy.

Unfortunately I can't find the video nor the later one where she explained why she had said what she'd said but this article explains thing pretty well.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...rent-guidelines-for-face-masks-for-the-public

*Why There Are So Many Different Guidelines For Face Masks For The Public*


----------



## kimthecat

Totally confused abt masks. I thought at the start we wore them to protect other people . I think the staff in stores should have to wear them .


----------



## StormyThai

Magyarmum said:


> Actually it wasn't either.


I disagree. 
BJ boasting about not wearing masks did not help, MP's obviously flouting social distancing and not wearing masks did not help, and then the media ran with whatever.

This is a sky news thing "The official UK government guidance states that evidence around wearing a face covering suggests it "does not protect you" from coronavirus." if people aren't able to fact check these quotes then it's no wonder some people were confused.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-11931121

Next we have the gov slashing the UK death rate (I need to research this properly, but there are murmurings that so long as the patient died 28 days after a positive test then they are taken off the death count...but I need to research that in depth because conspiracy theories are rife at the moment) so we have the "Told you it's not that bad" crowd getting louder.

I see a fair few people complaining about our rights being breached because we are asked (not forced) to wear a mask...not one single person has answered any questions about what we should be doing


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> Totally confused abt masks. I thought at the start we wore them to protect other people . I think the staff in stores should have to wear them .


Yes I'm a little confused too for the same reason.
My local pharmacy doesn't seem to be adhering to any face covering rules. Yesterday my son went in to collect a script and not only were staff not wearing masks or face shields, but customers weren't either.
I would have thought of all places, where potentially sick people are collecting scripts, it would be really important to not risk spreading anything.
I'm really surprised. Its only a small chemist/post office and customers would be very compliant. So can't understand the no masks thing!!!


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Yes I'm a little confused too for the same reason.
> My local pharmacy doesn't seem to be adhering to any face covering rules. Yesterday my son went in to collect a script and not only were staff not wearing masks or face shields, but customers weren't either.
> I would have thought of all places, where potentially sick people are collecting scripts, it would be really important to not risk spreading anything.
> I'm really surprised. Its only a small chemist/post office and customers would be very compliant. So can't understand the no masks thing!!!


I am too for the same reasons as you say.

@StormyThai, I've read too that the death count for coronavirus has been cut, not slashed, it's something like 5-6k taken off the total. England had the ridiculous situation that if you died and had a positive test therefore you died of covid 19 even if it was cancer that had caused it or an accident. England is bringing it into to line with the Scots method of reporting covid deaths i.e. only if less then 28 days then death is the result of covid.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Yes I'm a little confused too for the same reason.
> My local pharmacy doesn't seem to be adhering to any face covering rules. Yesterday my son went in to collect a script and not only were staff not wearing masks or face shields, but customers weren't either.
> I would have thought of all places, where potentially sick people are collecting scripts, it would be really important to not risk spreading anything.
> I'm really surprised. Its only a small chemist/post office and customers would be very compliant. So can't understand the no masks thing!!!


That's why I wish the government would say, that in any town centers, shopping malls, and in all shops a mask must be worn at all times.


----------



## Cully

How can we expect the idiots to behave when the sensible ones are so confused?


----------



## lorilu

kimthecat said:


> Totally confused abt masks. I thought at the start we wore them to protect other people . *I think the staff in stores should have to wear them* .


Where I live they do. Mask use is compulsory. By everyone, everywhere. We even have a high tourist area that has now made it compulsory to wear them on the main streets in that village. Tourists weren't complying. So now, you can get slapped with a $1,000 fine if you don't wear a mask while walking down the main street. 1st offense, you are given a mask by a police officer. Second offense, you are fined $1,000.

That may have to be enacted in my area too, once the college students come back, next week.

I had a dentist appointment yesterday. I had to call from my car to tell them I was there. They tried to call me back when it was time to come in but I don't know how to answer my cell phone so she had to come out to get me.

Once in I had to sanitize my hands and was given a pen to keep and use for signatures. I had to answer a two page questionnaire about my potential symptoms and exposures, and have my temperature taken.

I had to sign a disclaimer that I understood that while all precautions are being taken at the dentist, I understood that there may still be some risk of contracting covid-19 while there.


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> Totally confused abt masks. I thought at the start we wore them to protect other people . I think the staff in stores should have to wear them .


Yes, masks are to protect others from your germs in case you are an asymptomatic or presymptomatic carrier. Assuming ill people are staying home of course. I don't think all are, the symptoms can be mild enough that some people may not even realize they're sick, and then of course you'll always have one group who just doesn't care. 
So yes, masks to protect others. The only masks that protect the wearer are the N95 masks worn properly. And I believe those were the ones that the government was worried people would panic buy leaving healthcare workers without.

But if you're saying that in the UK retail workers don't have to wear masks, now I'm also confused. Here in the US, it was initially the 'essential' workers who had to wear masks. My daughter works in a fast food restaurant and she has been wearing a mask at work since late March I believe, plus they all get their temperature checked before each shift. 
Even before the general public was required/asked to wear masks, all stores had moved to requiring their workers to wear a mask. This was way back in May or maybe early June. Asking store patrons to wear a mask before entering the store is a more recent thing here in the south, in other states they've been masking for a good while.



lorilu said:


> I had a dentist appointment yesterday. I had to call from my car to tell them I was there.


 Daughter needs her wisdom teeth out and we had the consultation Monday, similar routine. We had to call that we were there, someone came out and took our temperature before we went in. But at my regular dentist, they just had a questionnaire, no temperature taking. 
Similar at the doctors. Regular family physician no temp, no questionnaire, just mask requirement. At my OBGYN I had to have my temp taken, use hand sanitizer, and answer questions. I even got my temp taken going to get a pedicure the other day! Masks and plastic dividers at all the stations, only every other station in use. They were very careful. 
The vet and pharmacy are also asking you to call when you're there, and they bring my prescription out to the car. I never even get out of the vehicle.


----------



## StormyThai

O2.0 said:


> But if you're saying that in the UK retail workers don't have to wear masks


Retail works don't have to wear masks.

From the gov site "It is not compulsory for shop or supermarket staff to wear face coverings although we strongly recommend that employers consider their use where appropriate and where other mitigations are not in place."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ntres-and-enclosed-transport-hubs-from-friday

Thankfully most around me are wearing masks when in the public area so not behind screens, but they don't have to


----------



## SbanR

lorilu said:


> Where I live they do. Mask use is compulsory. By everyone, everywhere. We even have a high tourist area that has now made it compulsory to wear them on the main streets in that village. Tourists weren't complying. So now, you can get slapped with a $1,000 fine if you don't wear a mask while walking down the main street. 1st offense, you are given a mask by a police officer. Second offense, you are fined $1,000.
> 
> That may have to be enacted in my area too, once the college students come back, next week.
> 
> I had a dentist appointment yesterday. I had to call from my car to tell them I was there. They tried to call me back when it was time to come in but I don't know how to answer my cell phone so she had to come out to get me.
> 
> Once in I had to sanitize my hands and was given a pen to keep and use for signatures. I had to answer a two page questionnaire about my potential symptoms and exposures, and have my temperature taken.
> 
> I had to sign a disclaimer that I understood that while all precautions are being taken at the dentist, I understood that there may still be some risk of contracting covid-19 while there.


I went through an almost similar procedure.
I was health screened on the phone before I was given an appointment.
A week later, when I turned up for my appointment I was health screened by the dental nurse over the phone before being admitted into the foyer.
My temperature was taken before I was led into the practice proper.

I didn't have to sign any disclaimers

Ps. I had to have my mask on before being admitted through the door and use the hand sanitiser that was waiting.


----------



## Arny

Magyarmum said:


> Actually it wasn't either.
> 
> It was Dr Margaret Harris the WHO's spokesperson who originally asked people not to go mad over buying masks


Ah right. From my memory, which isn't great I admit as things constantly change, the government were still saying masks were useless even after WHO changed their stance.


----------



## Arny

One of the charities I support were given free face shields by a company, for the workers in the charity shop.
They then got asked if they'd like some more as "did they realise they're single use".
So much waste!
Can they not be sprayed with disinfectant and have your own personal shield so they're not being swapped around?


----------



## Jaf

O2.0 said:


> Massachusetts is a state, not a country. And they've had mask rules in place since May IIRC. My mom lives there and I know she was freaking out about how lax we are here about 1000 miles to the south. In may we definitely weren't wearing masks here. Maybe a few people here and there, but nothing widespread, and it was in May that we started opening things back up.
> 
> I'm still very amused at this worry over wearing masks and what it does to young children. In large swaths of the world it gets cold enough in the winter that most people walk around outside with most of their face covered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it were that much of a worry to spend months having to cover your face before you went outside, I think we would know about it by now


I can breathe through a scarf, and walk ok. Wearing a mask is very different to a scarf, I can't walk without gasping and my stridor gets really bad. I'm aware that people say masks don't affect breathing but my personal experience is that it does.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> So much waste!


 Agree! So much more for landfill . . . unless there is a way they can be safely recycled (even so . . . ). I am still unsure on the recommendations for disposal of single-use masks . . . which is why I use ones I can wash and reuse.


----------



## kimthecat

Jaf said:


> I can breathe through a scarf, and walk ok. Wearing a mask is very different to a scarf, I can't walk without gasping and my stridor gets really bad. I'm aware that people say masks don't affect breathing but my personal experience is that it does.


Sorry to hear that. 
If you have to go on Public transport you are allowed to wear a face covering which includes scarves.

DD went to a country pub and sat outside and there were notices up saying don't let your children run around . 
Doctors surgery says any child over three has to wear a mask .
Im wondering how teachers at school will cope with thirty kids and getting them to keep their masks on.


----------



## O2.0

StormyThai said:


> Retail works don't have to wear masks.
> 
> From the gov site "It is not compulsory for shop or supermarket staff to wear face coverings although we strongly recommend that employers consider their use where appropriate and where other mitigations are not in place."
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ntres-and-enclosed-transport-hubs-from-friday
> 
> Thankfully most around me are wearing masks when in the public area so not behind screens, but they don't have to


Wow that really surprises me, for once it seems the US is ahead in their Covid-19 efforts. Granted, it also depends very much on the state, there is no nationwide mandade on anything. I know you'll find that shocking what with our exemplary leadership :Hilarious (I laugh so I don't cry.)

This is a list of each state's mask mandates. Interesting perusal. 
https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html
Mask mandates depend on state governors and local governments putting rules in place. For our tiny little town we do have a 'mask order' but not sure how enforceable it is. However, most people are being really responsible, and I've not been in any business where the employees were not masked. 
I was in Charleston last week and same thing, the rare occasion someone wasn't masked, it was not an employee. Always a customer. But most stores had big notices on the doors saying you have to have a mask or face covering on to enter.



Jaf said:


> I can breathe through a scarf, and walk ok. Wearing a mask is very different to a scarf, I can't walk without gasping and my stridor gets really bad. I'm aware that people say masks don't affect breathing but my personal experience is that it does.


I don't remember saying masks don't affect breathing? 
I did share a link saying that asthma sufferers might find some relief wearing a face covering in winter months. Mostly in response to a poster who was insisting that masks make you stupid, turn you in to a pervert, and are damaging to children. I was just trying to show that covering your face happens in all sorts of contexts in the general public and it's not an issue.

If you're comfortable with a scarf, wear a scarf. Buffs are very comfortable too. Runners wear them to run in, they definitely are easy to breathe through.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Just popping in to the party.. I feel unwell. Have a new cough. Its not bad but its new, and it's there. Keep taking my temperature its OK. However my breathing is slightly on the crap side. The cough doesn't feel like asthma cough, and my breathing is going in waves and am tired. So yes covid test for us all and isolating.
> 
> What I will say it doesn't or wouldn't surprise me if any of us have covid. In my area haven't been badly hit at all, I mean cases in hundred and deaths in tens.. So not badly affected.
> 
> Past few days local news have said its worrying that more people are being affected. I mean we are talking figures 6/7 daily but we were lucky here..
> 
> I have to agree with @Magyarmum post about still be aware of symptoms, of @O2.0 that herd immunity wouldn't be near yet so don't get lax per se.
> 
> @Siskin I love your post about people wearing masks. It's ridiculous for something so small isn't it.
> 
> @Arny I guess you do you as they say...
> 
> ***disclaimer I am positive even though cases are rising here. I have got a chest infection or something. I don't think it's Covid-19 at all but due to the cough, and some symptoms I thought it was wise to get tested and not just presume it's not Covid-19 and carry on regardless. Although I think a lot do.. My opinion obviously because I don't feel totally unwell ****


How you doing @lullabydream? Have you had the test results back? Are you still feeling poorly?


----------



## Jaf

O2.0 said:


> I don't remember saying masks don't affect breathing?
> I did share a link saying that asthma sufferers might find some relief wearing a face covering in winter months. Mostly in response to a poster who was insisting that masks make you stupid, turn you in to a pervert, and are damaging to children. I was just trying to show that covering your face happens in all sorts of contexts in the general public and it's not an issue.
> 
> If you're comfortable with a scarf, wear a scarf. Buffs are very comfortable too. Runners wear them to run in, they definitely are easy to breathe through.


Oh sorry didn't mean to say that you were saying that. Just lots of people have been showing oxygen meters displaying fine. That's not the whole story. I have an oxygen meter and oxygen goes up when I'm about to pass out!

I'm in Spain, scarves aren't allowed. They are starting to ban public smoking now too as they claim smokers pass the virus on. I guess smokers congregate and breathe on each other, maybe.


----------



## O2.0

Jaf said:


> Oh sorry didn't mean to say that you were saying that. Just lots of people have been showing oxygen meters displaying fine. That's not the whole story. I have an oxygen meter and oxygen goes up when I'm about to pass out!
> 
> I'm in Spain, scarves aren't allowed. They are starting to ban public smoking now too as they claim smokers pass the virus on. I guess smokers congregate and breathe on each other, maybe.


Do they allow buffs in Spain? You might find them more comfortable. Like here:
https://www.amazon.com/Headband-Mul...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I posted earlier in the thread about carbon dioxide and how it may be the CO2 you're reacting to, not a lack of oxygen. Not that it helps you with wearing a mask, but might help you understand what is going on with your body.


----------



## Jaf

O2.0 said:


> Do they allow buffs in Spain? You might find them more comfortable. Like here:
> https://www.amazon.com/Headband-Multifunctional-Headwear-Motorcycle-Bandana/dp/B089YC1CYB/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=TZ24UCSERJQ1&dchild=1&keywords=buff+face+mask&qid=1597356703&sprefix=buff,aps,171&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1pUWkYzN00wVkVCJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDE1NjM0Mjc4M04yNVI4Q1ZZOCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTMyMjYyMTQyVlk0MDBWRkFWTyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> I posted earlier in the thread about carbon dioxide and how it may be the CO2 you're reacting to, not a lack of oxygen. Not that it helps you with wearing a mask, but might help you understand what is going on with your body.


No unfortunately not, has to be a mask. Though a home-made one is fine, so I really should get on and make one! I'm lucky, I don't work and so I simply don't walk anywhere - if a shop doesn't have a parking space I go back another day.

I read the article you linked to. Thank you. I had a lot of speech and breathing therapy and completely changed how I breathe. It did make a difference. I will watch what happens when I walk to see if that all goes out of the window! I know stress affects me as my words to breath ratio plummets, so it's fair to assume that's what's happening.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> I disagree.
> BJ boasting about not wearing masks did not help, MP's obviously flouting social distancing and not wearing masks did not help, and then the media ran with whatever.
> 
> This is a sky news thing "The official UK government guidance states that evidence around wearing a face covering suggests it "does not protect you" from coronavirus." if people aren't able to fact check these quotes then it's no wonder some people were confused.
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-11931121
> 
> Next we have the gov slashing the UK death rate (I need to research this properly, but there are murmurings that so long as the patient died 28 days after a positive test then they are taken off the death count...but I need to research that in depth because conspiracy theories are rife at the moment) so we have the "Told you it's not that bad" crowd getting louder.
> 
> I see a fair few people complaining about our rights being breached because we are asked (not forced) to wear a mask...not one single person has answered any questions about what we shreqeould be doing


I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one although I will admit that not living in England I'm going by the reaction of my own family who live in the UK.

The WHO issued the request on March 3rd, the same day Boris visited the Royal Free Hospital to thank them for their work with Covid-19 patients.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detai...quipment-endangering-health-workers-worldwide

https://www.royalfree.nhs.uk/news-m...er-visits-royal-free-hospital-to-thank-staff/

Note there was no social distancing nor masks worn during their meeting so to be fair, Boris was only doing what everyone was doing!










Even on March 8 in the US, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the CDC didn't recommend it necessary for healthy people to wear face masks. Something that was later used against him.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context/

So is there any wonder that the media and politicians "got it wrong" (so to speak) when the major health institutions in the world gave what was later learned to be misleading information?


----------



## StormyThai

Magyarmum said:


> Note there was no social distancing nor masks worn during their meeting so to be fair, Boris was only doing what everyone was doing!


Yeah that picture kind of proves my point...person in power not socially distancing OR wearing a mask = Joe Public doing the exact same.
Many people follow those in power...if MP's were seen wearing masks and socially distancing then there would have been less of an uproar...it has been very much like the good old "Do as I say, not what I do"

I'm pretty certain that, that visit was also the one where BJ bragged about shaking hands with coronavirus patients too - even though no positive coronavirus patients were in the hospital!

But yeah I'm fine to agree to disagree


----------



## Cully

@lullabydream ,just checking in to see how you are feeling, and if you've got your result yet.
Must be a worry for you. You're in .y thoughts for a good result XX.


----------



## catz4m8z

I can see why the confusion over face masks. This must be the first time in recent history that we have suffered an outbreak of a brand new disease, meaning that the medical/scientific advice we are getting is all as things are being discovered. Not surprising then that advice can change depending on what we know!

V bad of BJ and those hospital staff not to be wearing masks or SDing though. They should of either put them in a bigger conference room (so they could still drink their coffee!LOL) or worn masks.


----------



## rona

So,we have twice as many daily positives than we had just a week or so ago


----------



## Jesthar

So, I spent one day this week with two family members who are both NHS doctors, one of whom has been working with severe post-Covid cases due to their specialism. Naturally, I took the opportunity to ask a few questions...

*Schools: *they both have children of primary/junior school age, and no issues with schools for kid that age going back as normal come September. Yes, this surprised me too, but apparently recent wide scale studies are consistently showing that young children don't shed Covid-19, and when they get it their immune systems normally react extremely quickly to shut it down. This is in sharp contrast to other virus (such as flu) where young children are super-spreaders, which was the main reasoning for closing schools in the first place. If these studies keep this pattern, a return for primary/junior schools should NOT be a Covid problem from a pupil perspective. There will, however, be large risks to the parents (from mixing with other adults) when taking/collecting children, and there will need to be precautions for staff.

Secondary schools are more of an unknown (we didn't really talk about them much, though). At some point in the teenage years their bodies start behaving increasingly like adults regarding shedding Covid, which means the risk greatly increases. Gangs of teens that hang out together without social distancing or masks were identified as a particular risk, particulary in contained environments. It would probably be sensible for colleges and universities to stick with remote learning for now.

*Face masks: *If you can wear one, you should. The latest studies show they aren't as effective as proper social distancing, but do significantly reduce droplet transmission - both ways, interestingly.

*Outside gatherings: *relatively low risk, particularly in open environments where social distancing is adhered to, as air movement should keep any viral load blowing away.

*Office environments: *still best avoided if you can work from home - spending extended amounts of time with other adults in an enclosed environment, even at a social distance, is a high risk scenario. Masks are advisable.

*Going to the pub: *if you're talking locals at quiet country pub where people are having a couple of drinks at a sensible distance or outside in a beer garden, that's relatively low risk (we had meal ourselves at such a pub). Going to a crowded Weatherspoons (other inner city purveyors of drunk and disorderly are available  ), however, is dumb.

*How close are we to herd immunity: *Not very close at all. Best estimates from the latest data are about 7% of the population has had it.


----------



## Boxer123

Jesthar said:


> So, I spent one day this week with two family members who are both NHS doctors, one of whom has been working with severe post-Covid cases due to their specialism. Naturally, I took the opportunity to ask a few questions...
> 
> *Schools: *they both have children of primary/junior school age, and no issues with schools for kid that age going back as normal come September. Yes, this surprised me too, but apparently recent wide scale studies are consistently showing that young children don't shed Covid-19, and when they get it their immune systems normally react extremely quickly to shut it down. This is in sharp contrast to other virus (such as flu) where young children are super-spreaders, which was the main reasoning for closing schools in the first place. If these studies keep this pattern, a return for primary/junior schools should NOT be a Covid problem from a pupil perspective. There will, however, be large risks to the parents (from mixing with other adults) when taking/collecting children, and there will need to be precautions for staff.
> 
> Secondary schools are more of an unknown (we didn't really talk about them much, though). At some point in the teenage years their bodies start behaving increasingly like adults regarding shedding Covid, which means the risk greatly increases. Gangs of teens that hang out together without social distancing or masks were identified as a particular risk, particulary in contained environments. It would probably be sensible for colleges and universities to stick with remote learning for now.
> 
> *Face masks: *If you can wear one, you should. The latest studies show they aren't as effective as proper social distancing, but do significantly reduce droplet transmission - both ways, interestingly.
> 
> *Outside gatherings: *relatively low risk, particularly in open environments where social distancing is adhered to, as air movement should keep any viral load blowing away.
> 
> *Office environments: *still best avoided if you can work from home - spending extended amounts of time with other adults in an enclosed environment, even at a social distance, is a high risk scenario. Masks are advisable.
> 
> *Going to the pub: *if you're talking locals at quiet country pub where people are having a couple of drinks at a sensible distance or outside in a beer garden, that's relatively low risk (we had meal ourselves at such a pub). Going to a crowded Weatherspoons (other inner city purveyors of drunk and disorderly are available  ), however, is dumb.
> 
> *How close are we to herd immunity: *Not very close at all. Best estimates from the latest data are about 7% of the population has had it.


Thank you for this as someone who works in primary schools it's good to know.


----------



## ForestWomble

Jesthar said:


> So, I spent one day this week with two family members who are both NHS doctors, one of whom has been working with severe post-Covid cases due to their specialism. Naturally, I took the opportunity to ask a few questions...
> 
> *Schools: *they both have children of primary/junior school age, and no issues with schools for kid that age going back as normal come September. Yes, this surprised me too, but apparently recent wide scale studies are consistently showing that young children don't shed Covid-19, and when they get it their immune systems normally react extremely quickly to shut it down. This is in sharp contrast to other virus (such as flu) where young children are super-spreaders, which was the main reasoning for closing schools in the first place. If these studies keep this pattern, a return for primary/junior schools should NOT be a Covid problem from a pupil perspective. There will, however, be large risks to the parents (from mixing with other adults) when taking/collecting children, and there will need to be precautions for staff.
> 
> Secondary schools are more of an unknown (we didn't really talk about them much, though). At some point in the teenage years their bodies start behaving increasingly like adults regarding shedding Covid, which means the risk greatly increases. Gangs of teens that hang out together without social distancing or masks were identified as a particular risk, particulary in contained environments. It would probably be sensible for colleges and universities to stick with remote learning for now.
> 
> *Face masks: *If you can wear one, you should. The latest studies show they aren't as effective as proper social distancing, but do significantly reduce droplet transmission - both ways, interestingly.
> 
> *Outside gatherings: *relatively low risk, particularly in open environments where social distancing is adhered to, as air movement should keep any viral load blowing away.
> 
> *Office environments: *still best avoided if you can work from home - spending extended amounts of time with other adults in an enclosed environment, even at a social distance, is a high risk scenario. Masks are advisable.
> 
> *Going to the pub: *if you're talking locals at quiet country pub where people are having a couple of drinks at a sensible distance or outside in a beer garden, that's relatively low risk (we had meal ourselves at such a pub). Going to a crowded Weatherspoons (other inner city purveyors of drunk and disorderly are available  ), however, is dumb.
> 
> *How close are we to herd immunity: *Not very close at all. Best estimates from the latest data are about 7% of the population has had it.


Thank you very much, that's really interesting.


----------



## MissSpitzMum

Really interesting @Jesthar. I feel time will tell on schools, but if teens end up being spreaders perhaps they would have the lower years in and the older years at home doing home learning. Might be best of both worlds as the older ones won't need an adult at home regardless.


----------



## kimthecat

People coming back from France will have to isolate for two weeks. . How do they check that people will do this?


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> So, I spent one day this week with two family members who are both NHS doctors, one of whom has been working with severe post-Covid cases due to their specialism. Naturally, I took the opportunity to ask a few questions...
> 
> *Schools: *they both have children of primary/junior school age, and no issues with schools for kid that age going back as normal come September. Yes, this surprised me too, but apparently recent wide scale studies are consistently showing that young children don't shed Covid-19, and when they get it their immune systems normally react extremely quickly to shut it down. This is in sharp contrast to other virus (such as flu) where young children are super-spreaders, which was the main reasoning for closing schools in the first place. If these studies keep this pattern, a return for primary/junior schools should NOT be a Covid problem from a pupil perspective. There will, however, be large risks to the parents (from mixing with other adults) when taking/collecting children, and there will need to be precautions for staff.
> 
> Secondary schools are more of an unknown (we didn't really talk about them much, though). At some point in the teenage years their bodies start behaving increasingly like adults regarding shedding Covid, which means the risk greatly increases. Gangs of teens that hang out together without social distancing or masks were identified as a particular risk, particulary in contained environments. It would probably be sensible for colleges and universities to stick with remote learning for now.
> 
> *Face masks: *If you can wear one, you should. The latest studies show they aren't as effective as proper social distancing, but do significantly reduce droplet transmission - both ways, interestingly.
> 
> *Outside gatherings: *relatively low risk, particularly in open environments where social distancing is adhered to, as air movement should keep any viral load blowing away.
> 
> *Office environments: *still best avoided if you can work from home - spending extended amounts of time with other adults in an enclosed environment, even at a social distance, is a high risk scenario. Masks are advisable.
> 
> *Going to the pub: *if you're talking locals at quiet country pub where people are having a couple of drinks at a sensible distance or outside in a beer garden, that's relatively low risk (we had meal ourselves at such a pub). Going to a crowded Weatherspoons (other inner city purveyors of drunk and disorderly are available  ), however, is dumb.
> 
> *How close are we to herd immunity: *Not very close at all. Best estimates from the latest data are about 7% of the population has had it.


Thank you for this, very interesting to read especially about how younger children's immune systems handle the virus.



kimthecat said:


> People coming back from France will have to isolate for two weeks. . How do they check that people will do this?


I've been wondering this every since they said people would have to self quarantine right back at the begining.


----------



## karenmc

lullabydream said:


> Just popping in to the party.. I feel unwell. Have a new cough. Its not bad but its new, and it's there. Keep taking my temperature its OK. However my breathing is slightly on the crap side. The cough doesn't feel like asthma cough, and my breathing is going in waves and am tired. So yes covid test for us all and isolating.
> 
> What I will say it doesn't or wouldn't surprise me if any of us have covid. In my area haven't been badly hit at all, I mean cases in hundred and deaths in tens.. So not badly affected.
> 
> Past few days local news have said its worrying that more people are being affected. I mean we are talking figures 6/7 daily but we were lucky here..
> 
> I have to agree with @Magyarmum post about still be aware of symptoms, of @O2.0 that herd immunity wouldn't be near yet so don't get lax per se.
> 
> @Siskin I love your post about people wearing masks. It's ridiculous for something so small isn't it.
> 
> @Arny I guess you do you as they say...
> 
> ***disclaimer I am positive even though cases are rising here. I have got a chest infection or something. I don't think it's Covid-19 at all but due to the cough, and some symptoms I thought it was wise to get tested and not just presume it's not Covid-19 and carry on regardless. Although I think a lot do.. My opinion obviously because I don't feel totally unwell ****


Hope you are feeling better soon @lullabydream. xx


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> People coming back from France will have to isolate for two weeks. . How do they check that people will do this?


I think they are relying on people to do the right thing.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> I think they are relying on people to do the right thing.


I can't see that working


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> I can't see that working


No, but it should in the main if people gave a toss.


----------



## grumpy goby

I know someone in the UK who is proudly still going to the pub and continuing as normal despite coming back from Spain recently and meant to be in isolation - infuriating, I am in NZ so he had no reason to tell me except to boast it seems!!

Here they have taken a very different attitude... they have transferred people from the most recent community cluster to managed quarantine (which is to say, a hotel which is being managed by the govt - 3 meals a day, health workers and restricted movement - although they are nice hotels!) I guess they decided to do this after the Melbourne issue, where spot checks found 1/4 of people in supposed isolation MIA.

I am not sure how I feel about this move, it would be nice to believe those in the cluster would do the right thing, but world events kinda indicate otherwise... but it does seem alarming to be "compelling" people to attend managed quarentine facilities; I'm not sure what they would do if the individuals said no.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> I think they are relying on people to do the right thing.


A friend of mine went to France a week ago, not due back until 31st . . . when I mentioned that it was possible that quarantine on her return would be introduced during her absence, she said well, it would make no difference as she's still working from home. I can see her point, she lives by herself.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Just popping in to the party.. I feel unwell. Have a new cough. Its not bad but its new, and it's there. Keep taking my temperature its OK. However my breathing is slightly on the crap side. The cough doesn't feel like asthma cough, and my breathing is going in waves and am tired. So yes covid test for us all and isolating.
> 
> What I will say it doesn't or wouldn't surprise me if any of us have covid. In my area haven't been badly hit at all, I mean cases in hundred and deaths in tens.. So not badly affected.
> 
> Past few days local news have said its worrying that more people are being affected. I mean we are talking figures 6/7 daily but we were lucky here..
> 
> I have to agree with @Magyarmum post about still be aware of symptoms, of @O2.0 that herd immunity wouldn't be near yet so don't get lax per se.
> 
> @Siskin I love your post about people wearing masks. It's ridiculous for something so small isn't it.
> 
> @Arny I guess you do you as they say...
> 
> ***disclaimer I am positive even though cases are rising here. I have got a chest infection or something. I don't think it's Covid-19 at all but due to the cough, and some symptoms I thought it was wise to get tested and not just presume it's not Covid-19 and carry on regardless. Although I think a lot do.. My opinion obviously because I don't feel totally unwell ****


Anyone heard from Lullabydream since this post? I sent a PM but had no response. Hope she is OK.


----------



## lorilu

Lurcherlad said:


> Anyone heard from Lullabydream since this post? I sent a PM but had no response. Hope she is OK.


It is so worrisome. I am thinking of you too @lullabydream


----------



## lorilu

College students arrival begins. They, and their parents, are already complaining about the restrictions that have been put in place by our city to protect not only OUR community, but them as well. I have stocked up with essential things so I don't have to go to the grocery store for several weeks while the students flood the stores. Having just moved into a new house there are things Istill need at the hardware store, I am not sure when would be best to go. I need a few tools. I may borrow them instead, for now.


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Anyone heard from Lullabydream since this post? I sent a PM but had no response. Hope she is OK.


I haven't heard from her, sent an email a couple days ago, now I'm getting worried.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lorilu said:


> College students arrival begins. They, and their parents, are already complaining about the restrictions that have been put in place by our city to protect not only OUR community, but them as well. I have stocked up with essential things so I don't have to go to the grocery store for several weeks while the students flood the stores. Having just moved into a new house there are things Istill need at the hardware store, I am not sure when would be best to go. I need a few tools. I may borrow them instead, for now.


I don't blame you for being concerned.

So frustrating that people are no longer accepting this is still a real threat to many people. Can you get stuff delivered or on Click & Collect there? We are lucky here that practically everything we need can be purchased online or over the phone.

I'm still keeping very much out of circulation and even when I do venture out, I'm selective where I go and stay vigilant of where other people are and their actions.


----------



## SbanR

lorilu said:


> College students arrival begins. They, and their parents, are already complaining about the restrictions that have been put in place by our city to protect not only OUR community, but them as well. I have stocked up with essential things so I don't have to go to the grocery store for several weeks while the students flood the stores. Having just moved into a new house there are things Istill need at the hardware store, I am not sure when would be best to go. I need a few tools. I may borrow them instead, for now.


Not sure about where you are, but I've found that if I go early morning, as soon as the store opens, there are very few shoppers around.
Might be even more true where students are concerned???


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Anyone heard from Lullabydream since this post? I sent a PM but had no response. Hope she is OK.


Last seen on Friday afternoon, its a worry.


----------



## lorilu

SbanR said:


> Not sure about where you are, but I've found that if I go early morning, as soon as the store opens, there are very few shoppers around.
> Might be even more true where students are concerned???


That's a good idea but I'm usually at work before the stores open. Except on weekends of course but I'm not an early riser, and the cats need care in the morning.



Lurcherlad said:


> Can you get stuff delivered or on Click & Collect there? We are lucky here that practically everything we need can be purchased online or over the phone.


I can and have done but there are some things I would prefer to buy in person, power tools especially, to make sure they are want I want.


----------



## Rafa

Lullabydream is okay.

Having problems with her internet connection.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> People coming back from France will have to isolate for two weeks. . How do they check that people will do this?


Supposedly they'll be checking up on one in five coming back, how and what good it'll do who knows.
The fact there was a race to get home hopefully suggests that at least some are taking it seriously.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Rafa said:


> Lullabydream is okay.
> 
> Having problems with her internet connection.


Yes, I've just had a reply to my pm a few days ago.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I heard too - her family are clear of Covid thankfully


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> I heard too - her family are clear of Covid thankfully


 That's reassuring news. How annoying for her with internet issues, but at least she and her family and well.


----------



## Siskin

Very reassuring news, thanks for the update.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Great to hear lullabydream is ok.


----------



## Jaf

Here in Spain they are tightening things up. Clubs closed, bars having to close at 1am. 

In Murcia region only 3 people from different households in 1 car. 

Countrywide they say smokers have to be 2metres from anyone else, even if from same household. It’s only for 21 days I believe, but going to be difficult for bars to manage.


----------



## JoanneF

Jaf said:


> Here in Spain they are tightening things up. {.....} bars having to close at 1am.
> 
> In Murcia region only 3 people from different households in 1 car.


Doesn't sound too harsh!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Rafa said:


> Lullabydream is okay.
> 
> Having problems with her internet connection.


Just seen this, so glad she's alright.


----------



## Beth78

Just got an NHS letter asking me to take part in a covid research project, they will send me a test kit and pick it up from my house. I'm pretty sure I haven't had or got it but you never know, some people will never know if they've been positive.


----------



## lorilu

Here it comes. College students have been here 9 days. 7 new confirmed cases in students in the last 2 days. 2 yesterday, 5 more today. All the students so far ill/tested positive live in off campus housing. There were many complaints from year long residents over the weekend about students flooding the streets and student rental homes, partying it up just like always. As in "normal" times. Which these aren't. So I am sure we can expect a lot more to come.


----------



## rona

Daily number of cases are now at the same as when we went into lockdown. Deaths however are only running at about 10% of the March figure .............at the moment


----------



## Magyarmum

Although we've had the odd death recently, our new cases are on the rise. There's no wonder really if what I saw yesterday is typical of the whole country!

I had to renew my driving license which you can only do in person. Of the 50 or so people in my local town municipal offices only around 4 of us were wearing masks and practicing social distancing. There were whole families there collecting child benefits all crowded together - an infection waiting to happen! Thankfully the section I had to go to had very few people so it wasn't difficult to keep a good distance from everyone else. I then had to go into Spar to do a little shopping where my faith in people was slightly restored because everyone including the staff were wearing masks.

I was talking to Gwylim's breeder on Monday and he was telling me about a good friend of his who contracted the virus. He's been in hospital for the past 6 weeks, 4 weeks of which he's been in an induced coma and intubated because his lungs are only working at 10% capacity. At present it's not known whether he'll survive and even if he does, whether his health will ever be the same again.

All very sad and scary.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Daily number of cases are now at the same as when we went into lockdown. Deaths however are only running at about 10% of the March figure .............at the moment


That's all to do with testing numbers I guess?

And the fact the current 'strain' we are dealing with seems less virulent than it was. Survival of the fittest I guess, the viruses that kill their hosts shuffle off the mortal coil too.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> That's all to do with testing numbers I guess?
> 
> And the fact the current 'strain' we are dealing with seems less virulent than it was. Survival of the fittest I guess, the viruses that kill their hosts shuffle off the mortal coil too.


It has been a lot lower, it's more or less doubled in the last 2 weeks. I think the death rate is low because it seems to be more in the younger people. A great many older people just aren't going out yet.
What worries me is those young will eventually spread it to older relatives, thus starting the whole horror again.
I feel so sorry for all those over 50s who have to work and put their safety into the hands of others


----------



## rona

OMG........It's jump about 500 in one day


----------



## ForestWomble

Cases are going up in my area and are the highest they've ever been


----------



## Siskin

Cases in my area have doubled from 1 to 2. Swindon seems to be a hub at the moment although I understand that the areas where the there has been a sudden increase have been controlled. Suffolk has also shown an increase of cases I think mainly in Ipswich.

I suspect the current low death rate is due to younger people developing the disease and mostly able to resist it, only supposing this though. Would be interested to see what the age ranges are of the people that have died recently and if they have other health conditions. The higher death rate early in the pandemic was due to several factors mainly that it was not known how best to treat the symptoms and that elderly people with other health issues were badly hit

I wonder if all the overcrowding on beaches and other beauty spots as well as young people ignoring social distancing in the last month or so is causing the increase


----------



## lorilu

6 more college students today. Colleges closed on March 16th so we didn't have this at the beginning.. Our small community has had very few cases comparatively speaking. Until now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lorilu said:


> 6 more college students today. Colleges closed on March 16th so we didn't have this at the beginning.. Our small community has had very few cases comparatively speaking. Until now.


The youngsters don't seem to be following guidelines so it's no surprise them going back to uni's will cause spikes 

All you can do is take steps to protect yourself - stay safe.


----------



## Magyarmum

New cases of Covid-19 have doubled over the past few days and it's just been announced that Hungary is closing its borders from September 1 st to all but essential foreign travellers..

http://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brie...7l9pKt81y-Q9aijnfzHqOq3dC2bhYcMNiY3kh7n1SVeQE

*BREAKING - New travel restrictions to take effect starting September 1: No foreigners are allowed entry to Hungary*


----------



## lorilu

We're now up to 29 confirmed college student cases, all from the one college, not the other, and that of course is only the ones who have symptoms and get tested. Mandatory pool testing is being put in place. It's not going to stop the students from acting like college students though, in my opinion, and our community is at great risk. How many other people have these students infected. That's the worry.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> We're now up to 29 confirmed college student cases, all from the one college, not the other, and that of course is only the ones who have symptoms and get tested. Mandatory pool testing is being put in place. It's not going to stop the students from acting like college students though, in my opinion, and our community is at great risk. How many other people have these students infected. That's the worry.


56 students confirmed now. The college is starting to stir itself to take some responsibility, a little bit late. Suddenly they are willing to work with our local law enforcement to curb the rampant parties and groups of college kids running through the streets at night. It's all normal first semester behavior except these aren't normal times and lives are at stake.


----------



## rona

lorilu said:


> 56 students confirmed now. The college is starting to stir itself to take some responsibility, a little bit late. Suddenly they are willing to work with our local law enforcement to curb the rampant parties and groups of college kids running through the streets at night. It's all normal first semester behavior except these aren't normal times and lives are at stake.


That's got to be so worrying for you and your community 
I'm sure everyone here in a uni town are worried. Even with these protests, the people in them are usually from a fairly local area, once uni starts, they come from all corners + abroad


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> That's got to be so worrying for you and your community
> I'm sure everyone here in a uni town are worried. Even with these protests, the people in them are usually from a fairly local area, once uni starts, they come from all corners + abroad


We're having the same problem here in Hungary and I imagine throughout Europe. A friend of mine was complaining the other day about the students and how the new infection numbers had shot up in his town since they'd come back.


----------



## Calvine

At least Bank Holiday Monday weather forecast is supposedly the coldest and wettest for a million years which might at least stop people swarming in droves to the beaches to get a place . . . many of them were camping on the beach a few weeks back when we had the hot spell.


----------



## JoanneF

I know I've ranted about my neighbour here already (stream of people to her garden right at the start of this, before mixing was allowed). Now she is paying no attention at all to social distancing and family bubbles, she is mixing with family and friends quite freely, and even posted a photo on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, of her out with 2 friends, in a restaurant, arms all round each other. Up to now I've tried to ignore it and kept my distance because it doesn't really directly affect me.

But. My lifelong best friend's son died a few weeks ago. I am meeting my friend for a safe and socially distanced coffee this week. And I can't give her a hug, and that is really breaking me up because it is all I want to do. I can't help wonder whether the distancing rules might have been relaxed by now if everyone had been more careful and diligent. People like my neighbour. So now I feel like what she is doing *has* affected me, and I'm really cross with her.

I don't particularly like this version of me, but it has helped to rant about it, so thanks for reading.


----------



## Magyarmum

JoanneF said:


> I know I've ranted about my neighbour here already (stream of people to her garden right at the start of this, before mixing was allowed). Now she is paying no attention at all to social distancing and family bubbles, she is mixing with family and friends quite freely, and even posted a photo on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, of her out with 2 friends, in a restaurant, arms all round each other. Up to now I've tried to ignore it and kept my distance because it doesn't really directly affect me.
> 
> But. My lifelong best friend's son died a few weeks ago. I am meeting my friend for a safe and socially distanced coffee this week. And I can't give her a hug, and that is really breaking me up because it is all I want to do. I can't help wonder whether the distancing rules might have been relaxed by now if everyone had been more careful and diligent. People like my neighbour. So now I feel like what she is doing *has* affected me, and I'm really cross with her.
> 
> I don't particularly like this version of me, but it has helped to rant about it, so thanks for reading.


I don't think you're being unreasonable! I feel much the same way but for a different reason.

I look forward every year to my family visiting me (and helping with any minor repairs I need doing in the house) This year I won't see them thanks to thoughtless selfish people like your neighbour.

I'm 80 years old and although I have no intentions of dying for many years to come, there's always the possibility I could do so without being able to see the people I love most in this world and that upsets me terribly!


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've been hoping for rain this weekend, if only to keep the morons from crowded the beaches and having large parties.


----------



## kimthecat

There was a demo in Trafalgar square yesterday #COVIDIDIOTS 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...lgar-square-conspiracy-theories-a4536031.html

Thousands of protesters branding the coronavirus pandemic a "hoax" gathered in Trafalgar Square today.

The demonstrators, who were not wearing face coverings, carried signs saying "no more masks no more lockdown" and "incremental fascism" at Saturday's "Unite for Freedom" rally.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> There was a demo in Trafalgar square yesterday #COVIDIDIOTS
> 
> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...lgar-square-conspiracy-theories-a4536031.html
> 
> Thousands of protesters branding the coronavirus pandemic a "hoax" gathered in Trafalgar Square today.
> 
> The demonstrators, who were not wearing face coverings, carried signs saying "no more masks no more lockdown" and "incremental fascism" at Saturday's "Unite for Freedom" rally.


David Icke was in his element raving about how this is a conspiracy. I must admit I thought he had died years ago, he really is a nutcase of the highest order


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> There was a demo in Trafalgar square yesterday #COVIDIDIOTS
> 
> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...lgar-square-conspiracy-theories-a4536031.html
> 
> Thousands of protesters branding the coronavirus pandemic a "hoax" gathered in Trafalgar Square today.
> 
> The demonstrators, who were not wearing face coverings, carried signs saying "no more masks no more lockdown" and "incremental fascism" at Saturday's "Unite for Freedom" rally.


What do these ignoramuses make of all the media coverage showing covid patients dying in hospital. And even if that was somehow a hoax, how can they account for the huge global death rate?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Saw this on Facebook

Quote









Unquote


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Saw this on Facebook
> 
> Quote
> View attachment 448233
> 
> 
> Unquote


Let alone the corporations like Tesco, Sainsbury, Holland and Barrat, she'll, BP and anywhere else you have a store/petrol card for
The amount of times you give out details for email updates of sales, dunhelm mills, b&m, Amazon etc
Every time you say yes to a taster, a free gift, a subscription
People have no idea how much we are 'controlled' not just by government, but by media, supermarkets, corporations, other people, or even our own choices
Free will is good,
it's just what, where and with whom, we choose to share that with that's dangerous


----------



## Siskin

Does anyone know if @lullabydream is still ok and are her internet problems still ongoing. Missing her


----------



## ForestWomble

JoanneF said:


> I know I've ranted about my neighbour here already (stream of people to her garden right at the start of this, before mixing was allowed). Now she is paying no attention at all to social distancing and family bubbles, she is mixing with family and friends quite freely, and even posted a photo on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, of her out with 2 friends, in a restaurant, arms all round each other. Up to now I've tried to ignore it and kept my distance because it doesn't really directly affect me.
> 
> But. My lifelong best friend's son died a few weeks ago. I am meeting my friend for a safe and socially distanced coffee this week. And I can't give her a hug, and that is really breaking me up because it is all I want to do. I can't help wonder whether the distancing rules might have been relaxed by now if everyone had been more careful and diligent. People like my neighbour. So now I feel like what she is doing *has* affected me, and I'm really cross with her.
> 
> I don't particularly like this version of me, but it has helped to rant about it, so thanks for reading.





Magyarmum said:


> I don't think you're being unreasonable! I feel much the same way but for a different reason.
> 
> I look forward every year to my family visiting me (and helping with any minor repairs I need doing in the house) This year I won't see them thanks to thoughtless selfish people like your neighbour.
> 
> I'm 80 years old and although I have no intentions of dying for many years to come, there's always the possibility I could do so without being able to see the people I love most in this world and that upsets me terribly!


Please read my 'like' to both your posts as a huge *HUG*

I feel the same as both of you, my immediate neighbours have not followed lockdown right from the start and I stayed shut up in my home from the beginning in March through to about mid-June because I was just too frightened to go out (we share a courtyard and they were all always out there so I had no way of safely leaving my home). I felt angry and afraid and like others have said I do wonder if we'd be in a better position now if everyone had done their bit.

I'm still scared now but have started going out late evening once the light is going and its too chilly and dark for most people to be out so B and I do get some fresh air, I just wish this was all over for us all and no more unnecessary deaths. Sadly while we have the idiots, I fear this isn't going any time soon


----------



## Magyarmum

ForestWomble said:


> Please read my 'like' to both your posts as a huge *HUG*
> 
> I feel the same as both of you, my immediate neighbours have not followed lockdown right from the start and I stayed shut up in my home from the beginning in March through to about mid-June because I was just too frightened to go out (we share a courtyard and they were all always out there so I had no way of safely leaving my home). I felt angry and afraid and like others have said I do wonder if we'd be in a better position now if everyone had done their bit.
> 
> I'm still scared now but have started going out late evening once the light is going and its too chilly and dark for most people to be out so B and I do get some fresh air, I just wish this was all over for us all and no more unnecessary deaths. Sadly while we have the idiots, I fear this isn't going any time soon


It must be so difficult for you having to run the gauntlet of people every time you and Bungo want to go out.

I don't know whether this will help but I found these studies the other day which make interesting reading about the risk of catching the virus; The first was a study they did about the risks of commuters catching flu whilst travelling on the London Underground.

https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2018/12/18/commuters-london-underground-likely-catch-flu/

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223


----------



## HarlequinCat

Magyarmum said:


> I don't think you're being unreasonable! I feel much the same way but for a different reason.
> 
> I look forward every year to my family visiting me (and helping with any minor repairs I need doing in the house) This year I won't see them thanks to thoughtless selfish people like your neighbour.
> 
> I'm 80 years old and although I have no intentions of dying for many years to come, there's always the possibility I could do so without being able to see the people I love most in this world and that upsets me terribly!


Its the same with me, I havent seen my Mum since Christmas, I usually go every couple of months to say hello, give her dog a trim and do a few jobs she has trouble with. I havent seen my sisters either, they both have OHs classed as vulnerable. Im actually jealous of my OH because we are here staying with his parents, so he gets to see his family all the time, how silly of me!



Magyarmum said:


> It must be so difficult for you having to run the gauntlet of people every time you and Bungo want to go out.
> 
> I don't know whether this will help but I found these studies the other day which make interesting reading about the risk of catching the virus; The first was a study they did about the risks of commuters catching flu whilst travelling on the London Underground.
> 
> https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2018/12/18/commuters-london-underground-likely-catch-flu/
> 
> https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
> 
> When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223


That chart is actually really helpful


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> It must be so difficult for you having to run the gauntlet of people every time you and Bungo want to go out.
> 
> I don't know whether this will help but I found these studies the other day which make interesting reading about the risk of catching the virus; The first was a study they did about the risks of commuters catching flu whilst travelling on the London Underground.
> 
> https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2018/12/18/commuters-london-underground-likely-catch-flu/
> 
> https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
> 
> When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223


Outdoors shouting or singing medium risk, what about all those unfit people walking/jogging/cycling, huffing and puffing over everyone they pass  Most of them never even try to distance


----------



## rona

There's now 1700 cases yesterday  Still going up ...................


----------



## ForestWomble

Magyarmum said:


> It must be so difficult for you having to run the gauntlet of people every time you and Bungo want to go out.
> 
> I don't know whether this will help but I found these studies the other day which make interesting reading about the risk of catching the virus; The first was a study they did about the risks of commuters catching flu whilst travelling on the London Underground.
> 
> https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-health/2018/12/18/commuters-london-underground-likely-catch-flu/
> 
> https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
> 
> When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223


Thank you, I shall read the studies, the chart is very helpful.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> 56 students confirmed now. The college is starting to stir itself to take some responsibility, a little bit late. Suddenly they are willing to work with our local law enforcement to curb the rampant parties and groups of college kids running through the streets at night. It's all normal first semester behavior except these aren't normal times and lives are at stake.


The college is now at 105 confirmed cases and "in person" classes have been shut down for two weeks and a swat team is being sent here. Free rapid testing is to be set up in 3 locations for city residents, by appointment.


----------



## karenmc

Siskin said:


> Does anyone know if @lullabydream is still ok and are her internet problems still ongoing. Missing her


I was wondering the same. Hope she is ok.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Does anyone know if @lullabydream is still ok and are her internet problems still ongoing. Missing her





karenmc said:


> I was wondering the same. Hope she is ok.


Yes....it's worrying it's been nearly a month since she last posted.


----------



## JoanneF

And @Jamesgoeswalkies


----------



## karenmc

JoanneF said:


> And @Jamesgoeswalkies


Yes I noticed he hasn't been around. Hope all is ok.


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> Outdoors shouting or singing medium risk, what about all those unfit people walking/jogging/cycling, huffing and puffing over everyone they pass  Most of them never even try to distance


That's actually very low risk for the people they pass - exposure time is so fleeting there's practically no chance of getting anywhere near viral load. It's length of time of exposure that is the biggest factor, and being outdoors lowers the risk too. You're more at risk stopping having a two minute conversation with a friend or neighbour in your driveway.

The tables may say 'short time' but I'm pretty sure that means a time measured in minutes, not couple of seconds tops. So basically, as long as you're not following right behind them for a while, you're at practically no risk.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> The college is now at 105 confirmed cases and "in person" classes have been shut down for two weeks and a swat team is being sent here. Free rapid testing is to be set up in 3 locations for city residents, by appointment.


The college students are still roaming the streets and parks, and none of them are wearing masks. I am not quoting news sources, I am speaking from observation as I was out and about today and saw many as I ran my errands and went for my walk. It's all a big joke to them apparently. Not all of course, I realize that, but the ones taking it seriously are the ones we don't see. I haven't seen anything about these "rapid test" stations they are supposed to be setting up for the permanent residents of our community.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> The college students are still roaming the streets and parks, and none of them are wearing masks. I am not quoting news sources, I am speaking from observation as I was out and about today and saw many as I ran my errands and went for my walk. It's all a big joke to them apparently. Not all of course, I realize that, but the ones taking it seriously are the ones we don't see. I haven't seen anything about these "rapid test" stations they are supposed to be setting up for the permanent residents of our community.


245 college students now confirmed positive. In 6 days, from one college. The other college, which had testing, quarantines and other precautions in place before the students came back, have 2 confirmed cases. Both cases can be traced back to associations with the other college's students.

And still, STILL, we see packs of students on the streets, no masks. We see families walking down the street, no masks. Store still have to have someone at the door to hand out a mask if someone shows up without one.

By the way, that 244 is more than twice the number of cases we had here before, in our whole county, *total since the start*.

I hope they send them home.


----------



## Siskin

Went in to Morrison’s today to get a few things. As far as I could see everyone including staff were wearing masks apart from two older very, very fat men. No idea why, maybe they had health issues, they did look related. I would imagine if they did get the virus the likely hood of them not making it through is probably quite high


----------



## Happy Paws2

The kids go back to school today, should be interesting to see how many turn up.


----------



## LinznMilly

Mum phoned me up yesterday afternoon - her partner has had to be tested for suspected coronavirus. 

No sooner did I get off the phone to her, than I got a text from my GP - a member of staff has got it.

Feels like a net is closing in. :Nailbiting


----------



## MilleD

Is the 'strapline' new that they are using for deaths?

It now says "deaths from _any _cause within 28 days of a positive test". Are all countries measuring like that?


----------



## MilleD

LinznMilly said:


> Mum phoned me up yesterday afternoon - her partner has had to be tested for suspected coronavirus.
> 
> No sooner did I get off the phone to her, than I got a text from my GP - a member of staff has got it.
> 
> Feels like a net is closing in. :Nailbiting


They had a case in my work building and they were disgustingly cloak and dagger about telling people. How can that be right.

They are a county council.....


----------



## LinznMilly

MilleD said:


> They had a case in my work building and they were disgustingly cloak and dagger about telling people. How can that be right.
> 
> They are a county council.....


:Jawdrop :Jawdrop. That is shocking! :Banghead


----------



## Boxer123

LinznMilly said:


> Mum phoned me up yesterday afternoon - her partner has had to be tested for suspected coronavirus.
> 
> No sooner did I get off the phone to her, than I got a text from my GP - a member of staff has got it.
> 
> Feels like a net is closing in. :Nailbiting


Scary I hope you are ok.


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> I hope they send them home.


Unfortunately sending them home means 144 kids going to 50 different states or even other countries to spread covid-19 there. I prefer they quarantine them at the school.

We've had similar here, outbreaks from sorority and fraternity gatherings :Banghead


----------



## LinznMilly

Boxer123 said:


> Scary I hope you are ok.


Thank you.  The test came back negative, thank God.


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> Is the 'strapline' new that they are using for deaths?
> 
> It now says "deaths from _any _cause within 28 days of a positive test". Are all countries measuring like that?


It brings England in line with the rest of the UK.
Previously England were doing if you'd die anytime after testing positive. 
You could have died months later getting hit by a bus and you'd be classed as a covid death.
Its why our numbers were cut recently by a few thousand.
It still doesn't make a huge amount of sense as you could have died OF something else but die WITH covid within 28 days.
Plus some people are taking longer than a month to pass or recover.

Every country is doing it differently. Belgium are like we were, any cause of death after a positive test so their numbers will go down significantly at a later date.
Others are if they think the primary cause of death was covid.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> Unfortunately sending them home means 144 kids going to 50 different states or even other countries to spread covid-19 there. I prefer they quarantine them at the school.
> 
> We've had similar here, outbreaks from sorority and fraternity gatherings :Banghead


245 actually. (as of yesterday) but yeah, I meant after the 2 week quarantine. One article states they were planning a short semester anyway, sending them home at Thanksgiving break not to return until 2021, but who knows if it's true. Lots of...um..interesting stuff being said. Not all of it factual. We have an elected city official who likes to tell the community the way he wishes things were, not the way they really are.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Urgh. What to do?

We've been invited to an anniversary "thing" this weekend. It would be six couples including us. No matter which way you figure it, it's against the guidance - not against the law as it's "only" 12 people - and as such, I really don't feel that I can go. However, part of me really really wants to go. I really wish that I wasn't such a flipping goody two shoes. I just can't stand the thought that I would carry Covid to one of my ladies and make her ill. I am (bizarrely) hacked off at myself for my inability and lack of desire to bend the rules...I'll be a hermit at this rate! 

Would you think, "stuff it" and just go anyway?


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> Urgh. What to do?
> 
> We've been invited to an anniversary "thing" this weekend. It would be six couples including us. No matter which way you figure it, it's against the guidance - not against the law as it's "only" 12 people - and as such, I really don't feel that I can go. However, part of me really really wants to go. I really wish that I wasn't such a flipping goody two shoes. I just can't stand the thought that I would carry Covid to one of my ladies and make her ill. I am (bizarrely) hacked off at myself for my inability and lack of desire to bend the rules...I'll be a hermit at this rate!
> 
> Would you think, "stuff it" and just go anyway?


Personally I wouldn't go, it's not just you you have to think about, but then apart from seeing my parents I have been living as a hermit since March, so not the best person to be giving advice probably.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm almost 100% sure we won't go @ForestWomble - if I got anything, I'd be okay I'm sure (reasonably young and fit) but as I say I would hate to make any of my ladies poorly. That thought has realistically taken over my life since March - not sure I signed up for such dedication when I did my training


----------



## kimthecat

DD back at school teaching juniors. no face masks . Been told to shower and wash clothes when she goes home.


----------



## lorilu

Mrs Funkin said:


> Urgh. What to do?
> 
> We've been invited to an anniversary "thing" this weekend. It would be six couples including us. No matter which way you figure it, it's against the guidance - not against the law as it's "only" 12 people - and as such, I really don't feel that I can go. However, part of me really really wants to go. I really wish that I wasn't such a flipping goody two shoes. I just can't stand the thought that I would carry Covid to one of my ladies and make her ill. I am (bizarrely) hacked off at myself for my inability and lack of desire to bend the rules...I'll be a hermit at this rate!
> 
> *Would you think, "stuff it" and just go anyway?*


Never.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

That’s me, too, Lorilu. I’ve never been that sort of person. I follow rules too well


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> Would you think, "stuff it" and just go anyway?


You could do like the rich folks and do a rapid test for all invitees before they're allowed to enter 

Not sure what I would do. I've been ultra cautious in some aspects, not so cautious in other respects. I wouldn't deliberately flaunt any rules and knowingly endanger others, but I have been less than cautious when it comes to myself.

I saw this today and it made me smile and relax just a little, thought I'd share:
Whatever you decide, you're not wrong for it


----------



## Lurcherlad

If it was indoors I wouldn’t go.

If outdoors, I’d still be concerned that SD rules would not be adhered to if everyone is familiar with each other.

There’s no way of knowing where they’ve all been and who they’ve been mixing with.


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Urgh. What to do?
> 
> We've been invited to an anniversary "thing" this weekend. It would be six couples including us. No matter which way you figure it, it's against the guidance - not against the law as it's "only" 12 people - and as such, I really don't feel that I can go. However, part of me really really wants to go. I really wish that I wasn't such a flipping goody two shoes. I just can't stand the thought that I would carry Covid to one of my ladies and make her ill. I am (bizarrely) hacked off at myself for my inability and lack of desire to bend the rules...I'll be a hermit at this rate!
> 
> Would you think, "stuff it" and just go anyway?


I think if it was outside and despite the fact I've been shielding, I'd probably go and socially distance.

BUT, I'm still working from home so won't pass it to anyone else, and haven't really been to a shop apart from Sainsburys once. At night when it was empty.

Edit to add: - there have also been extremely low cases in my borough for weeks.


----------



## Boxer123

Is it outside @Mrs Funkin ? I have completely lost track of the rules and just had to google them. I've been a complete hermit as well.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Sadly even if it’s totally outside, it’s outside the guidance (I think it’s unlikely anyway). The guidance for outdoors is up to six people, can be from six households. The indoor guidance is two households, any number of people. So this gathering is outside the guidance, indoors or outdoors. The law mentions 30 people outdoors...but I’d still rather stay within guidance.

So I’m afraid that once again in my life I’m going to seem like a real stick in the mud. Ah well. 

It makes me sad though  I can’t see much change until the winter flu season is over.


----------



## lorilu

Mrs Funkin said:


> So I'm afraid that once again in my life I'm going to seem like a real stick in the mud.


To whom? Anyone who judges you for staying home and staying safe is not someone whose opinion you would value. You have a right to make your own choices, just like everyone else.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Sadly even if it's totally outside, it's outside the guidance (I think it's unlikely anyway). The guidance for outdoors is up to six people, can be from six households. The indoor guidance is two households, any number of people. So this gathering is outside the guidance, indoors or outdoors. The law mentions 30 people outdoors...but I'd still rather stay within guidance.
> 
> So I'm afraid that once again in my life I'm going to seem like a real stick in the mud. Ah well.
> 
> It makes me sad though  I can't see much change until the winter flu season is over.


It's difficult winter is going to be tough and I can't see my routine changing much. I've missed a few things as I'm not comfortable. One of my friends did face time me though and but me on the iPad not the same but worth a try. Fingers crossed next year will be better.


----------



## lorilu

The college cases are now well over 300 and account for more than 75% of our total cases since March, in the whole county, not just the city proper. The college president is denying any and all responsibility for this disaster, claiming she made the same decisions as other colleges. Really, so why aren't these other colleges having the same problem. But who knows anyway. No one seems capable of giving a straight answer. Maybe there just aren't any straight answers.

Our Rapid testing started yesterday and as of this morning there is no news about results from that yet, oddly enough. The four days (including yesterday) are completely booked at all three sites. Seems everyone in the community wants to take advantage of it, even though we've had a few drive through testing sites (the standard nasal test which takes about 4 days for results) recently.


----------



## Arny

Random question, do you have to pay for testing in the US?


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> Random question, do you have to pay for testing in the US?


The rapid testing set up in response to the outbreak is free. I think the drive thru testing sites are free too. If you go to your own doctor to be tested, I don't know. When we had to be tested after exposure to a work colleague a month or so ago, of course we did not pay for our tests, but I assumed our employer did.

PS I've just done a quick search and found this:

_The Families First Coronavirus Response Act ensures that COVID-19 testing is free to anyone in the U.S., including the uninsured. Additional testing sites may be available in your area.
_
So to answer your question, yes testing in the US is free.


----------



## O2.0

Arny said:


> Random question, do you have to pay for testing in the US?


Mobile and drive through testing sites are free. If you go to your doctor and they don't have any reason to believe you have covid-19 and you ask for a test, those are not free. If you present with symptoms and get tested, that is free. It's a little confusing.

And I was being serious about the elite getting tested before parties. Those tests are not free either of course, can be up to $500 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/style/does-rapid-covid-testing-work-weddings-parties.html


----------



## MilleD

I have a friend who is married with a 1 year old daughter. She wants to get her grandparents to look after her, but thinks the rules still say you can only bubble with single parent households.

Is this still the case? I was sure you could bubble with other households now, doesn't matter how many people are in it.

She is in England - does anyone know where the guidance might say about this?

Ta.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

You are of course correct @lorilu - it's just that's always been my life, being the "boring one" 

@MilleD we have had a lower than average infection and death rate in our area and I think this has contributed to people feeling more safe and taking more risks. On the latest Trust update at work, it's stated that the numbers of infections are rising again though.

Husband just messaging to say we don't feel comfy not adhering to guidance, so we are sending our apologies. I'll sit and drink a bottle of fizz myself


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MilleD said:


> I have a friend who is married with a 1 year old daughter. She wants to get her grandparents to look after her, but thinks the rules still say you can only bubble with single parent households.
> 
> Is this still the case? I was sure you could bubble with other households now, doesn't matter how many people are in it.
> 
> She is in England - does anyone know where the guidance might say about this?
> 
> Ta.


Seems as though it's the same - a single person (with or without children) can form a bubble with another household of any size. So I think that your friend is right.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/meeting...aking-a-support-bubble-with-another-household


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Seems as though it's the same - a single person (with or without children) can form a bubble with another household of any size. So I think that your friend is right.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/meeting...aking-a-support-bubble-with-another-household


This is a bit ridiculous to be honest!


----------



## Magyarmum

Mrs Funkin said:


> Sadly even if it's totally outside, it's outside the guidance (I think it's unlikely anyway). The guidance for outdoors is up to six people, can be from six households. The indoor guidance is two households, any number of people. So this gathering is outside the guidance, indoors or outdoors. The law mentions 30 people outdoors...but I'd still rather stay within guidance.
> 
> So I'm afraid that once again in my life I'm going to seem like a real stick in the mud. Ah well.
> 
> It makes me sad though  I can't see much change until the winter flu season is over.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> This is a bit ridiculous to be honest!


 I agree with you it is a bit ridiculous!

Essential care can be provided by those outside of a bubble and I would suggest a one year old will require essential care. With most businesses back at home and the government on a drive to get people to stop working from home and back into offices, many many families will be reverting back to the childcare arrangements they had pre covid. It is quite ridiculous for everyone to get back to normal as far as work and school goes but not to allow family/friends to provide childcare.


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> I agree with you it is a bit ridiculous!
> 
> Essential care can be provided by those outside of a bubble and I would suggest a one year old will require essential care. With most businesses back at home and the government on a drive to get people to stop working from home and back into offices, many many families will be reverting back to the childcare arrangements they had pre covid. It is quite ridiculous for everyone to get back to normal as far as work and school goes but not to allow family/friends to provide childcare.


As she put it, her child can go to a soft play centre, but not be picked up by her grandma.

This is one of the more crazy rules IMO.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I think so much just seems to have been up "on the fly" and then never re-visited @MilleD - I feel sad that so many children have missed time within nurturing relationships with grandparents/other family members.

I know I have a skewed view because of my work but I see so much sadness and so many poor parent/child relationships, that to have children separated from other vital relationships has done them a disservice. I obviously don't mean this aimed at your friend! It's more of a comment on how "they" decided stuff without really thinking about the impact - calls to child services/child line/refuge/other DA lines have increased massively - and I look forward to November, when apparently there will be much revision of guidance.


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> The rapid testing set up in response to the outbreak is free. I think the drive thru testing sites are free too. If you go to your own doctor to be tested, I don't know. When we had to be tested after exposure to a work colleague a month or so ago, of course we did not pay for our tests, but I assumed our employer did.
> 
> PS I've just done a quick search and found this:
> 
> _The Families First Coronavirus Response Act ensures that COVID-19 testing is free to anyone in the U.S., including the uninsured. Additional testing sites may be available in your area.
> _
> So to answer your question, yes testing in the US is free.





O2.0 said:


> Mobile and drive through testing sites are free. If you go to your doctor and they don't have any reason to believe you have covid-19 and you ask for a test, those are not free. If you present with symptoms and get tested, that is free. It's a little confusion.


Makes sense as they want to encourage testing.



O2.0 said:


> And I was being serious about the elite getting tested before parties. Those tests are not free either of course, can be up to $500
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/style/does-rapid-covid-testing-work-weddings-parties.html


No party is worth that!

I hadn't heard of the rapid testing before. Some tests here are coming back within 24hrs but more often a few days.
They've actually just said on the news various locations here will be trialling 20 minute tests.


----------



## Cully

Well if I ever need a test I just hope it's local. I can't understand why some people are expected to travel 100's of miles. My friend's daughter was given an appointment in Liverpool. She lives in Reading!!


----------



## lorilu

The state college is shutting down the campus and sending students home (when safe to do so) Students in campus housing I mean. The off campus housing, where the problem originated......no one is mentioning that. The landlords have all already been devastated by this as they tried to do the right thing in the spring semester and let students out of their leases, , but health and safety has to come first. They are up to 389 students confirmed positive and more coming in all the time. There's been no report on the rapid testing that's been going on in the community for two days and if anyone there is testing positive yet.

I guess our tiny community is going to be a lesson to the rest of the college campuses. It's just not worth the risk going to packed house parties.

Our city tried to curtail this devastation by stopping city bus runs to campus at 6 pm to discourage campus residents from coming into the city to parties. Al the parents and students whined about that 2 weeks ago and their student union privately contracted a bus to transport students down town after the 6 pm curfew. And this is the result.


----------



## kimthecat

Shocking the amount of abuse store staff are having to put up with .
Iceland in our town said 
" our store colleagues are regularly subject to abuse and threats of assault from customers who are unwilling to abide by the Government’s rules on social distancing and the wearing of face coverings.

"We have recorded more than 600 such incidents specifically related to defiance of Covid precautions since the start of lockdown in March."


----------



## Lurcherlad

Shocking!


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> Shocking the amount of abuse store staff are having to put up with .





kimthecat said:


> Iceland in our town said
> " our store colleagues are regularly subject to abuse and threats of assault from customers who are unwilling to abide by the Government's rules on social distancing and the wearing of face coverings.
> 
> "We have recorded more than 600 such incidents specifically related to defiance of Covid precautions since the start of lockdown in March."


Muppets I was just in the queue at my local farm shop stood two metres away from the person in front of me so a lady slipped in between us  I explained the two metre rule.


----------



## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> ​
> Muppets I was just in the queue at my local farm shop stood two metres away from the person in front of me so a lady slipped in between us  I explained the two metre rule.


 That really annoys me when people do that. Did she take any notice?


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> That really annoys me when people do that. Did she take any notice?


She begrudgingly got in place behind me but didn't apologise. How dare she slow down my purchase of steak for Loki.


----------



## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> She begrudgingly got in place behind me but didn't apologise. How dare she slow down my purchase of steak for Loki.


I should coco! :Hilarious


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> Shocking the amount of abuse store staff are having to put up with .
> Iceland in our town said
> " our store colleagues are regularly subject to abuse and threats of assault from customers who are unwilling to abide by the Government's rules on social distancing and the wearing of face coverings.
> 
> "We have recorded more than 600 such incidents specifically related to defiance of Covid precautions since the start of lockdown in March."


:Jawdrop 

At my local shops I've heard of this type of thing going on. It's disgraceful.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’ve spent the last five months being regularly shouted at, sworn at, threatened and told they’ll “sue me”. Errrm. Okay then. Crack on. 

I’m fed up to the back teeth of it. If I wasn’t in uniform I’d give ‘em what for.


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> I've spent the last five months being regularly shouted at, sworn at, threatened and told they'll "sue me". Errrm. Okay then. Crack on.
> 
> I'm fed up to the back teeth of it. If I wasn't in uniform I'd give 'em what for.


 Sorry you have to deal with that.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We went to Sainsbury's this morning, we went straight in, everyone wearing masks, social distancing main been observed, no queuing at the tills. That's it for another week or so.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> Shocking the amount of abuse store staff are having to put up with .
> Iceland in our town said
> " our store colleagues are regularly subject to abuse and threats of assault from customers who are unwilling to abide by the Government's rules on social distancing and the wearing of face coverings.
> 
> "We have recorded more than 600 such incidents specifically related to defiance of Covid precautions since the start of lockdown in March."


From the US but just as applicable in the UK


----------



## lorilu

College count is well over 500 (540 at last report) now and still rising, and there are still people who "don't believe in it." So far all new confirmed cases are still students. I've seen no reports of community resident cases (we only had 30 since March until this) but our community is being asked to, in effect, live shut down on this holiday weekend. Doesn't bother me, but some people just have trouble following rules or being "inconvenienced".


----------



## Jaf

There’s a Spanish CV19 app. It uses Bluetooth to check who you are near to and if you remain close for more than 15mins records it. If anyone subsequently tests positive then they log onto the app, and the app warns anyone that has been in contact with them.

I’m having difficulty explaining that the app uses the internet at some point, otherwise it cannot contact app users. The app says “not working” on my phone when I’m away from wifi range as I don’t use mobile data. Bluetooth is simply not able to send information further than a few feet, nor is it able to use the internet.


----------



## lorilu

Why is it that people cannot understand, it's the highly contagiousness of it, the swiftness of the way it spreads, that is the problem. Vulnerability is relative. I am (almost) 60 and appear in good health, have a good job as an essential employee and even just bought a house. But if I got sick, I have no one to take care of me, or my cats. And I already have several chronic conditions, I don't need another. Now we're almost a year in, they are finding all these long lasting, maybe even permanent, health issues from people who have had it.


----------



## SbanR

I have a friend, a retired midwife, who thinks it's all been overhyped.
She doesn't take any precautions or SD


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> it's the highly contagiousness of it,


I think this is the part that even scientists are still trying to figure out though. 
In our small community we've had several cases of one or two family members getting covid-19 but others not - people living in the same household and not isolating right away cause they didn't know they had it, and not transmitting it to other family members.

And of course all the healthcare workers who are constantly exposed but not getting sick, there are many of these folks too. This is what makes some people question both how covid-19 is transmitted, and how contagious it is. 
It's also possible that there are different mutations of the virus that are more and less contagious.

There's just so much we don't know. And no one likes saying "I don't know." 
So while we don't know it's wise (and kind) to wear a mask and not gather in large groups like these college kids are doing. (Colleges here have suspended students for breaking social distancing rules.) 
But I'm trying really hard not to be judgemental because there really is a lot of confusion and uncertainty.


----------



## lorilu

Well we had three off campus parties in one weekend and now we have at least 543 confirmed student cases, all in less than 2 weeks. That sounds pretty contagious to me. No college staff has yet tested positive. Presumably because they actually do what they are supposed to do to reduce the risk of contagion and spread,, wear masks, wash hands, and social distance. 

So yes, I judge people who don't.

Five students were suspended and three sororities/fraternities where closed early on. Now the campus is closed and all students (on campus) who have tested negative are being sent home. Others will go when they have recovered. Students in off campus housing can choose to stay or go, but many are still roaming our streets in groups with no masks. 

Again, yes I judge them for putting our entire community at risk, continuously. There is absolutely no reason these young people cannot put on masks and social distance, protecting if not themselves, at least the rest of us.

Parents are moaning that "a few" have given the entire student body a bad name and their particular precious child would never attend a house party or put anyone at risk so why should they be punished by losing their "college experience". And still, the packs of students are seen on the streets, with no face coverings.

And because these young adults (so they think of themselves) had to have their "college experience" all the school age children are losing out on any school or social experience at all. 

A whole generation starting out not knowing how to learn or interact with peers.

Businesses just starting to get their feet back under them, facing shut down again. Local health care overloaded because there aren't enough nurses.

So yeah, I judge, because I am seeing this happen right here in my front yard. And it could have been avoided. By the way, the other college in our midst has only had three student cases.


----------



## Arny

Jaf said:


> There's a Spanish CV19 app. It uses Bluetooth to check who you are near to and if you remain close for more than 15mins records it. If anyone subsequently tests positive then they log onto the app, and the app warns anyone that has been in contact with them.
> 
> I'm having difficulty explaining that the app uses the internet at some point, otherwise it cannot contact app users. The app says "not working" on my phone when I'm away from wifi range as I don't use mobile data. Bluetooth is simply not able to send information further than a few feet, nor is it able to use the internet.


I'm guessing this is one of the reasons why the uk "world beating" app was scrapped.
That and the fact apple and google didn't want anything to do with it as it breached their privacy rules and the government wouldn't accept help to develop one they would all be happy with.


----------



## Cully

Anyone heard regarding lullabydream? Not tagging her as don't want to bother her if she's not well.
From what I can see she last posted Aug 11th, on this thread. Seen again on Tuesday.
Anyone got anything more recent, it's worrying not hearing.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Anyone heard regarding lullabydream? Not tagging her as don't want to bother her if she's not well.
> From what I can see she last posted Aug 11th, on this thread. Seen again on Tuesday.
> Anyone got anything more recent, it's worrying not hearing.


Worrying... one or two more seem to have soon missing.


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> I've spent the last five months being regularly shouted at, sworn at, threatened and told they'll "sue me". Errrm. Okay then. Crack on.
> 
> I'm fed up to the back teeth of it. If I wasn't in uniform I'd give 'em what for.


They're braver than me
Rule no1, as far as I was concerned, 
When pregnant
Don't pee off your midwife
S/he knows how to make or break your delivery


----------



## Mrs Funkin

mrs phas said:


> They're braver than me
> Rule no1, as far as I was concerned,
> When pregnant
> Don't pee off your midwife
> S/he knows how to make or break your delivery


I'm not that kind of midwife


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Anyone heard regarding lullabydream? Not tagging her as don't want to bother her if she's not well.
> From what I can see she last posted Aug 11th, on this thread. Seen again on Tuesday.
> Anyone got anything more recent, it's worrying not hearing.


I've been wondering too. Apparently she was having internet troubles, whether that's still ongoing I don't know. She may be having a break from social media, she does that occasionally.


----------



## Magyarmum

Two articles from Euronews which IMO are well worth reading.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/03...d-19-second-wave-country-by-country-breakdown

*Coronavirus second wave? Which countries in Europe are experiencing a resurgence of cases? *

https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/05...zOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==

*A supercomputer analysed data on COVID-19 and helped come up with this new hypothesis *


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm not that kind of midwife


I promise I wasn't insinuating you were
Lots of things change in 25 years (youngest son's birth)


----------



## rona

Keeping a very close eye on cases in mine and surrounding areas. Although there are a few cases every day, they aren't increasing, unlike the national number which is now almost 3000, up 1000 in one day


----------



## StormyThai

One of the schools in town has announced that it is closing tomorrow due to 5 teachers testing positive and two more waiting for their results.
All the children and parents that came into contact with these teachers are being asked to self isolate.


----------



## Magyarmum

This is about Hungary but IMO could apply to the UK as well.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-fac...-DefMU9ydNK5wG3smN_xEDDKePCv04Qm73WbHyQBMMu1I

*Episode Two: Coronavirus Strikes Back*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cases are risen here as well, no way have we even started to get rid of it.


----------



## Arny

But will hospital admissions increase, that'll be the thing to watch.
Many are suggesting the virus has become less virulent.


----------



## Arny

We're still in a better position than we were in march/april as we actually have testing in the community.


----------



## ForestWomble

Just checked my area and it's scary the difference between what it says today, and the results last week.

Last week it said we had 2 cases per 100,000, today it says we now have 7 cases per 100,000. Plus it shows we had 26 cases in the last week which is a rise of +18!

I'm scared 

Edit to add, I'm on a border between two areas and I just check the area I am near and that's even worse, 45 cases in the last week with a rise of +24.


----------



## Happy Paws2

ForestWomble said:


> Last week it said we had 2 cases per 100,000, today it says we now have 7 cases per 100,000. Plus it shows we had 26 cases in the last week which is a rise of +18!
> 
> I'm scared


Just checked Birmingham 
60 cases per 100,000 people in the latest week 29 Aug-4 Sep. really scared now.


----------



## ForestWomble

I won't be surprised if we end up with another lockdown


----------



## Siskin

Just checked the Cotswolds area, there has been two new cases over the last 24 hours. In east Suffolk where we currently are there has been 9 new cases which is a little worrying as it’s largely rural but does include Ipswich, Felixstowe and Lowestoft. The static site is virtually empty and I can get deliveries here although we went and had a stock up at the local farm shop today.


----------



## rona

Starting to stock up here again


----------



## Boxer123

It went up here but has gone down again. Still very worrying. Realistically we can’t afford another lock down I can’t see the government doing a nation wide one. I’ve got a few weeks of Tesco deliveries booked.


----------



## mrs phas

One of the high schools in Haverhill (Suffolk) has closed
Only 15 miles by road, closer as the crow flies, from us
Matt and I had to go for tests on Sunday as he had
Temp
Tight chest
Sore throat
Loss of taste
I, of course, living with him and having to drive him to test centre, was strongly advised to have one at same time
Both came back negative, thank goodness
In Suffolk at least, there doesn't seem to be a shortage, being sent out of county, we were sent to nearest one which had a plethora of testing times available, nor any delay in getting results,
We had our results Monday midday
Today we can clearly see it's tonsils, look like glowing stop signs, spattered with bird poo (yes I'm feeling graphic today)
But
Both of us being in vulnerable group, despite me feeling the biggest of frauds, as I had no symptoms, it was adviseable


----------



## Lurcherlad

Better safe than sorry @mrs phas


----------



## Siskin

It’s likely that the higher number of cases is due to the availability of tests, well at least I hope it is


----------



## kimthecat

They did say there could be a second wave .


----------



## mrs phas

Meetings of more than 6 people to be banned, in England, from Monday

BBC News - Coronavirus: Social gatherings above six banned in England from 14 September
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54081131

Thankfully it is from Monday, for the purely 100% selfish reason, as I've paid for the twins to go on a raptor day for their birthday sunday


----------



## StormyThai

mrs phas said:


> One of the high schools in Haverhill (Suffolk) has closed
> Only 15 miles by road, closer as the crow flies, from us
> Matt and I had to go for tests on Sunday as he had
> Temp
> Tight chest
> Sore throat
> Loss of taste
> I, of course, living with him and having to drive him to test centre, was strongly advised to have one at same time
> Both came back negative, thank goodness
> In Suffolk at least, there doesn't seem to be a shortage, being sent out of county, we were sent to nearest one which had a plethora of testing times available, nor any delay in getting results,
> We had our results Monday midday
> Today we can clearly see it's tonsils, look like glowing stop signs, spattered with bird poo (yes I'm feeling graphic today)
> But
> Both of us being in vulnerable group, despite me feeling the biggest of frauds, as I had no symptoms, it was adviseable


That's the school my post was talking about. 8 teachers with positive results and 90 children waiting for tests or their results. We have also had two events (football match and band playing in town) so we are still waiting for everyone to be contacted.

The thing is, this could have all been avoided if the head master had acted quicker.
The first teacher was showing symptoms on the Thursday which was a teacher training day...5 teachers had to get tests that day, but the head master still went ahead with opening the school the next day 

I'm really glad that both your tests came back negative


----------



## mrs phas

StormyThai said:


> That's the school my post was talking about. 8 teachers with positive results and 90 children waiting for tests or their results. We have also had two events (football match and band playing in town) so we are still waiting for everyone to be contacted.
> 
> The thing is, this could have all been avoided if the head master had acted quicker.
> The first teacher was showing symptoms on the Thursday which was a teacher training day...5 teachers had to get tests that day, but the head master still went ahead with opening the school the next day
> 
> I'm really glad that both your tests came back negative


You're closer to me than I thought, I'll have to keep an eye out for Tai, if we ever get back to some sort of normality


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’m very glad that the guidance is going to become law. I’m not sure it will change much except it will be easier for me to decline attending group gatherings  

The “problem” where we live is that the numbers are low (though hospital admissions have rapidly risen since Friday), so people don’t know anyone who has been affected, so they feel it’s not a real threat I think. I’m happy numbers are low, don’t get me wrong, but people just seem to do what they want. At least it’s heading to darker nights, so beach gatherings won’t be as tempting! Gosh, I sound a right grumpy sod, I’m not really


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ is giving a briefing at 3.45pm, now that's what I call good timing Boris, when Parents are fetching the Kids from school or people are at work


----------



## Siskin

Just been checking yesterday’s figures for new cases. France approx 6.5k, Spain nearly 9k. Scary


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm very glad that the guidance is going to become law. I'm not sure it will change much except it will be easier for me to decline attending group gatherings


I think it's particularly shocking that people are seeing this 'new' number of 6 as a headline.

It's always been 6. More if you have a larger household or support bubble.

All this is doing is making it enforceable by law as far as I can tell. Rather than it being a guideline.

Your gut instinct to decline the gathering was on the money


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> I think it's particularly shocking that people are seeing this 'new' number of 6 as a headline.
> 
> It's always been 6. More if you have a larger household or support bubble.
> 
> All this is doing is making it enforceable by law as far as I can tell. Rather than it being a guideline.


You could have 30 or more socially in certain settings such as community halls, based on the individual halls capacity once social distancing was taken into account.
I'm unsure if this will still be allowed.


----------



## Arny

Arny said:


> I'm unsure if this will still be allowed.


Having watched the news it does 
seem like it's the cutting back of these other social events that had been allowed previously that's the main focus and just going back to only having wedding receptions, funerals and certain other specific occasions.


----------



## StormyThai

Samuel Ward (the school that both myself and Mrs Phas were discussing) has now announced that it will be shut for at least 2 weeks...which isn't surprising as most of the teaching staff have either tested positive or are self isolating.
The outbreak is so close that I am calling off all classes even though I hold them outside with minimal numbers, they are all from separate households so I just don't think that it is responsible to continue until our town has a handle on things a bit better. Thankfully all my clients have been understanding.

This has been my own personal choice and not based on any foggy guidelines!


----------



## mrs phas

Will pubs and clubs have to close again or will they allow 40 groups of 6 to mingle,?
If the latter it all seems a little pointless
What about supermarkets?
I noticed my Tesco had a queue outside this morning, first for weeks
6 in at a time?
only 6 allowed in each aisle?

Best I suck it up and go back to online shopping methinks


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Will pubs and clubs have to close again or will they allow 40 groups of 6 to mingle,?


Did clubs ever open?
Pubs etc will depend on your area. In Bolton they've had to go back to takeaway only.
It'll be a fine balance of risk and keeping the economy going.


----------



## Arny

StormyThai said:


> This has been my own personal choice and not based on any foggy guidelines!


Liking on the fact on taking the initiative not on the fact you've had to make that decision!
Presumably it'll only get worse in schools as the weather gets worse and people want to congregate inside.
Hopefully though it won't lead to much of an increase in hospital admissions.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MilleD said:


> I think it's particularly shocking that people are seeing this 'new' number of 6 as a headline.
> 
> It's always been 6. More if you have a larger household or support bubble.
> 
> All this is doing is making it enforceable by law as far as I can tell. Rather than it being a guideline.
> 
> Your gut instinct to decline the gathering was on the money


Me too @MilleD - mentioning to people that the rules are "six outside From up to six households or two households inside" seemed to draw strange looks. It was always "oh no, up to 30 is okay"....erm, nope.

Hopefully now my father in law will stop flitting about to people's houses!


----------



## mrs phas

Arny said:


> Did clubs ever open?
> Pubs etc will depend on your area. In Bolton they've had to go back to takeaway only.
> It'll be a fine balance of risk and keeping the economy going.


Not night clubs no, for which some of us are sincerely grateful for
But snooker clubs did
The gaming club and bar one of my son's works at did
The working men's (labour) club did

That sort of club


----------



## StormyThai

mrs phas said:


> Will pubs and clubs have to close again or will they allow 40 groups of 6 to mingle,?
> If the latter it all seems a little pointless
> What about supermarkets?
> I noticed my Tesco had a queue outside this morning, first for weeks
> 6 in at a time?
> only 6 allowed in each aisle?
> 
> Best I suck it up and go back to online shopping methinks


One of the local pups is advertising that eat out to help out is back as of today so my guess is that pups will stay open.
Which is ridiculous IMO


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Not night clubs no, for which some of us are sincerely grateful for
> But snooker clubs did
> The gaming club and bar one of my son's works at did
> The working men's (labour) club did
> 
> That sort of club


Ah right. When I think club night club is all that comes to mind. No sure why as I never liked them anyway.
Yes I think its the closing of those other places that are mainly there for the purpose of social gatherings.

There will be an exemption list so I suppose just have to see what that includes.


----------



## mrs phas

StormyThai said:


> One of the local pups is advertising that eat out to help out is back as of today so my guess is that pups will stay open.
> Which is ridiculous IMO


I think that the eat out to help out scheme massively contributed to this increase in positive tests
So many people wanting a bargain meal, no proper deep cleaning of tables/chairs between diners (a spray and wipe does not equal a deep clean) waiting staff not wearing masks or gloves, or sanitising hands between plates for one table and another, or, if they're wearing gloves not changing them between taking orders and serving drinks/meals
I know it was meant to give the hospitality industry a much needed boost, but it's given the positives boost too


----------



## SusieRainbow

I imagne churches wll close again.

We only reopened ours on Sunday, all stocked up with sanitiser, hymn books and bibles put away, no singing and lines on the floor - really weird. Surprisingly we were at full capacity for the space. We have a very elderly congregation but they were all so pleased to be back in Church for the company and support.
This will be a blow for them.


----------



## Babyshoes

SusieRainbow said:


> I imagne churches wll close again.
> 
> We only reopened ours on Sunday, all stocked up with sanitiser, hymn books and bibles put away, no singing and lines on the floor - really weird. Surprisingly we were at full capacity for the space. We have a very elderly congregation but they were all so pleased to be back in Church for the company and support.
> This will be a blow for them.


I think I read somewhere that churches are exempt...


----------



## SusieRainbow

Babyshoes said:


> I think I read somewhere that churches are exempt...


Yes, just seen you're rght.

*The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, said the new rules did not affect places of worship as that is "not a social gathering".*


----------



## Boxer123

I agree with the tightening of rules problem is who will police it ? Those of us taking it seriously haven’t been doing this anyway. I am flabbergasted that people are still worried about travelling abroad when we are in the middle of a pandemic.


----------



## margy

Travelling abroad would be the last thing I'd be worried about. My little granddaughter had a cough runny nose and a rash last week. I and little one s dad got a persistent cough, sore throat. Because I work with vulnerable people for the second time I went for a test. Nearest one was 43 miles away in Berwick. I live in Northumberland. I had the test it was negative also my daughter and husband with little one were negative. Only a cold. But with winter coming will we have to go for a test with every sniffle? Such a worry.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> I agree with the tightening of rules problem is who will police it ? .


How about making owners/managers of places liable for a fine, if they don't police their own establishments
They need to be the responsible ones on the ground
As for GBP, there'll always be some curtain twitcher to tell tales, despite not knowing the reasons
I hated it at the begining of lockdown, when all and sundry were doing it, I hate the thought of it returning, even more
Other than that
No one


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Shocking the amount of abuse store staff are having to put up with .
> Iceland in our town said
> " our store colleagues are regularly subject to abuse and threats of assault from customers who are unwilling to abide by the Government's rules on social distancing and the wearing of face coverings.
> 
> "We have recorded more than 600 such incidents specifically related to defiance of Covid precautions since the start of lockdown in March."


 What is wrong with people? I was on a bus yesterday and two men, separately, got on without masks. I was surprised that the driver said nothing but probably he thought it wasn't worth the effort.


----------



## Cully

I think it's unrealistic to police your own bars and other businesses. It's already been shown that polite reminders about using masks and distancing can result in violent behaviour, especially when alcohol fuelled. It's not fair to expect staff to put themselves at risk. It's also unrealistic to expect the Police to be responsible as there just isn't the manpower.
Rebels need to look at the bigger picture and realise they are adding to the likelihood of another national lockdown if they continue to behave with lack of any consideration for others.
I heard a comment recently regarding the phrase, 'Dont kill you Gran'. The response was that old people will be dead soon anyway and so why does it matter. 
What chance have we got against scum who think like that?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> What is wrong with people? I was on a bus yesterday and two men, separately, got on without masks.* I was surprised that the driver said nothing *but probably he thought it wasn't worth the effort.


I don't blame him, it's not his place to police who wearing a mask, plus the fact he would have no idea how there may react.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> I was surprised that the driver said nothing but probably he thought it wasn't worth the effort.


Most bus drivers (around here anyway) aren't wearing masks...so I can imagine how well it would go down to be told by an unmasked person to wear a mask.

I'm finding all this "passing the buck" really frustrating...no on wants to take responsibility for policing mask wearing, not even the sodding police!
When you walk into a shop and none of the staff are wearing masks then I can understand some people saying why should they bother...there should be no excuses IMO

I'm just wearing my mask more and more in public, especially when I'm still having to avoid groups of joggers crowding the fecking footpath.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Until not wearing a masks is against the Law, no one can really enforce it. Advising what should be done, doesn't work with some people.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> One of the local pups is advertising that eat out to help out is back as of today so my guess is that pups will stay open.
> Which is ridiculous IMO


The 'new' rules are that each table of six has to socially distance from each other table of six.

And again, that was already in the 'guidance'....


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Most bus drivers (around here anyway) aren't wearing masks...so I can imagine how well it would go down to be told by an unmasked person to wear a mask.


Aren't they behind a screen? They are on the buses around here.

To be honest, the policing is a nightmare, too many people claiming fake exemptions etc for them to be able to to anything about it.


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> Having watched the news it does
> seem like it's the cutting back of these other social events that had been allowed previously that's the main focus and just going back to only having wedding receptions, funerals and certain other specific occasions.


Yep, certain gatherings can still happen up to 30. Again, that was what the guidance already said.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> Aren't they behind a screen? They are on the buses around here.
> 
> To be honest, the policing is a nightmare, too many people claiming fake exemptions etc for them to be able to to anything about it.


Some are behind a screen and some aren't...doesn't make the blind bit of difference to me because unless that screen is air tight they are still adding to the viral load on the bus...all the screen does is stop direct spit.

Maybe if public transport drivers (not all taxi drivers are wearing masks either), shop works and the like started to lead by example by wearing masks OR face visors even though they are apparently exempt (because a virus knows the difference between a shop worker and a customer -insert sarcasm-) then maybe others might follow.
Someone not wearing a mask? Well you ask for their exemption or you refuse entry...if they kick off you shut the door and then call the police - it's not hard!


----------



## StormyThai

OK so even though the head master said yesterday that the school would be shut for two weeks..today it is very much open and the head isn't accepting any responsibility that he is the only one to blame for the recent outbreak.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Some are behind a screen and some aren't...doesn't make the blind bit of difference to me because unless that screen is air tight they are still adding to the viral load on the bus...all the screen does is stop direct spit.
> 
> Maybe if public transport drivers (not all taxi drivers are wearing masks either), shop works and the like started to lead by example by wearing masks OR face visors even though they are apparently exempt (because a virus knows the difference between a shop worker and a customer -insert sarcasm-) then maybe others might follow.
> Someone not wearing a mask? Well you ask for their exemption or you refuse entry...if they kick off you shut the door and then call the police - it's not hard!


I imagine it's to do with the length of time the bus driver and passengers spend on the bus. The viral load over time will affect the bus driver the most as the passengers are on for shorter periods, so maybe they consider the fact that it's his own germs he's breathing in.

Don't forget that masks are no less airtight than that bus screen. All they do is stop the spit too.

You can buy the 'exemption' lanyards anywhere. How do you police that?


----------



## Lurcherlad

If you mean the Sunflower lanyard, I believe that in itself doesn’t give the wearer exemption.

The card attached to it does.


----------



## Summercat

@lullabydream 
How are you doing? 
Not seen you about, hope ok. Last post was here.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> If you mean the Sunflower lanyard, I believe that in itself doesn't give the wearer exemption.
> 
> The card attached to it does.


How many people know how that is supposed to look if it's fake?

People working in stores don't want the added hassle of having to deal with irate customers which I completely understand.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> How do you police that?


Pretty simple actually.
Add a barcode to the proper exemption cards (not the crap you can print off anywhere) then you scan the card.
It SHOULD be policed exactly as I stated above...no mask or valid exemption card then you (general you) are refused entry...start being a dick, well then the door is closed and the police are called.

Having worked in retail before and also being a barmaid at one time it was quite clear that business owners were more than capable of refusing entry or kicking people out when they caused issues or broke the rules/law...I have also seen many people kicked off the buses either by the driver or the police were called - I see no difference between then and now apart from many people using the "Oh but they might be violent" as a cop out.


----------



## kimthecat

Only groups of six allowed. I guess S club 7 wont be having a reunion.


----------



## rona

Watching six local areas. Last week there were 1-3 cases in each every day, this week 3-6 cases in each a day.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Pretty simple actually.
> Add a barcode to the proper exemption cards (not the crap you can print off anywhere) then you scan the card.
> It SHOULD be policed exactly as I stated above...no mask or valid exemption card then you (general you) are refused entry...start being a dick, well then the door is closed and the police are called.
> 
> Having worked in retail before and also being a barmaid at one time it was quite clear that business owners were more than capable of refusing entry or kicking people out when they caused issues or broke the rules/law...I have also seen many people kicked off the buses either by the driver or the police were called - I see no difference between then and now apart from many people using the "Oh but they might be violent" as a cop out.


Is that really what you want the police to spend time doing when masks don't actually protect totally??


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I don't blame him, it's not his place to police who wearing a mask, plus the fact he would have no idea how there may react.


 But no-one else is going to tell them. Plus he is in a bulletproof cabin!


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Aren't they behind a screen? They are on the buses around here.
> 
> To be honest, the policing is a nightmare, too many people claiming fake exemptions etc for them to be able to to anything about it.


Yes, and most of them have put notices on the front five seats saying they are not to be used in ortder to safeguard the driver (talking London Transport here). I must say, from what I can see, most young people are being sensible, it tends to be middle-aged men who don't wear them. But then you have the ones who have a mask which they wear as a weird patterned hairnet over their beards while they chat on phones, slurp coffee etc.


----------



## rona

Anyone not following guidelines should be charged with assault or a new charge relating to Covid. Why should we all be put at risk by these selfish people?


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> But no-one else is going to tell them. Plus he is in a bulletproof cabin!


Really??


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> But no-one else is going to tell them. Plus he is in a bulletproof cabin!


And you would be brave enough to tell a group of youths who been out on the booze.


----------



## stuaz

If I was a store, restaurant owner, I would simply refuse service to those that did not wear a mask, unless they had an official medical expemption for one.

i understand there may be hostility from doing that, but I wouldn't care. It's not worth the risk. 

Make it so that it's socially not acceptable and it will police itself.


----------



## Lurcherlad

stuaz said:


> If I was a store, restaurant owner, I would simply refuse service to those that did not wear a mask, unless they had an official medical expemption for one.





stuaz said:


> i understand there may be hostility from doing that, but I wouldn't care. It's not worth the risk.
> 
> Make it so that it's socially not acceptable and it will police itself.


Pubs and clubs have Bouncers on the door - I think I'd rather pay for their services, than risk contracting Covid from some moron who wouldn't comply.


----------



## stuaz

Lurcherlad said:


> Pubs and clubs have Bouncers on the door - I think I'd rather pay for their services, than risk contracting Covid from some moron who wouldn't comply.


Exactly and most large supermarkets have security on the front door as well.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Pubs and clubs have Bouncers on the door - I think I'd rather pay for their services, than risk contracting Covid from some moron who wouldn't comply.


Those working door security (bouncer is an outdated and derogatory term these days, many exams are needed, before a a door licence is issued) are father's, partners, son's (mine included) mother's, daughters
Why should their health, possibly life, be less valuable than yours?
My son has already had 3 lots of concussion, a dislocated jaw, a broken jaw, been beaten up more times than I, his mum, likes, and he is highly trained in non confrontational confrontation, is 6ft6in and built like the proverbial outhouse, he's heard, and recieved, more abuse than a docker's had hot meals, but he's still my son and I worry enough
It's enough of a high stress, dangerous job as it is, and he doesn't even work at a public house or night club
Yes it's a job he chose, and, is highly respected in, including by the police
But no, no way, is his life worth less than yours

Edit to add, the 'you' in this post is a general you, not directed personally @Lurcherlad, or anyone else (I just quoted their post, nothing meant by doing that)


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> And you would be brave enough to tell a group of youths who been out on the booze.


I would not have to ''tell them'' anything. The drivers here have a selection of buttons to press with information: ''Stay with your buggy''; Please vacate the wheelchair space''; This bus is ready to depart''. They have now added to this: ''You* MUST *wear a face covering at all times when travelling on public transport''. I would press that button; but most of the drivers now cannot be arsed to do that. (Interestingly, the voice that tells you to cover your face is male; the buggy ones are female. Is that because a male voice is more authoritative and more likely to be obeyed?)


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> Those working door security (bouncer is an outdated and derogatory term these days, many exams are needed, before a a door licence is issued) are father's, partners, son's (mine included) mother's, daughters
> Why should their health, possibly life, be less valuable than yours?
> My son has already had 3 lots of concussion, a dislocated jaw, a broken jaw, been beaten up more times than I, his mum, likes, and he is highly trained in non confrontational confrontation, is 6ft6in and built like the proverbial outhouse, he's heard, and recieved, more abuse than a docker's had hot meals, but he's still my son and I worry enough
> It's enough of a high stress, dangerous job as it is, and he doesn't even work at a public house or night club
> Yes it's a job he chose, and, is highly respected in, including by the police
> But no, no way, is his life worth less than yours
> 
> Edit to add, the 'you' in this post is a general you, not directed personally @Lurcherlad, or anyone else (I just quoted their post, nothing meant by doing that)


Bouncer isn't and wasn't considered a derogatory term by me, so no offence intended.

At least one of our local pubs has put them on their doors to deal with possible overcrowding and flouting of the Covid guidelines to protect everyone, and their licence.

As did our local hospital at the very start of Lockdown.

I assume that anybody accepting the job would take all necessary measures to protect themselves from infection and have every right to refuse the job if offered.

They are certainly better equipped to deal with stroppy customers than the Trolley man/boy (again not meant as a slur) or shop staff who are being shoved into Door Duties at the moment, untrained in the speciality.

It's not a job I'd be happy for my son to do (for all the reasons you state) and I can appreciate as a mother how worried you must be when your son is working.

Absolutely, their life is no less valuable than anyone else's. Same as those of the emergency services, store workers or all the other front line staff.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> Is that really what you want the police to spend time doing when masks don't actually protect totally??


If someone is violent (either physically or verbally) because they have been refused entry then they are breaking the law...Then YES the police should step up as it is their job.

People keep repeating that masks don't protect fully so why bother essentially...no one has suggested that they do, they do *drastically* reduce the risk of exposure/spreading, so there is *zero *reasons (unless medically exempt) to not wear a mask or visor and if some would rather break the law (breach the peace, verbal or physical assault etc, etc...) then why shouldn't the police become involved?
The police being under funded and stripped back is the governments fault and not a good enough excuse to not do their job IMHO


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> If someone is violent (either physically or verbally) because they have been refused entry then they are breaking the law...Then YES the police should step up as it is their job.
> 
> People keep repeating that masks don't protect fully so why bother essentially...no one has suggested that they do, they do *drastically* reduce the risk of exposure/spreading, so there is *zero *reasons (unless medically exempt) to not wear a mask or visor and if some would rather break the law (breach the peace, verbal or physical assault etc, etc...) then why shouldn't the police become involved?
> The police being under funded and stripped back is the governments fault and not a good enough excuse to not do their job IMHO


Honestly, I'd rather them be doing something more important with their time. The fact is, we all make the decision about whether we feel happy going out there or not.

I could claim my asthma as an exemption. I don't, but I bet a lot of people would.

If I worked as a bouncer or security on a shop, I wouldn't want it to get to violence at any point. And sometimes that means conceding the point. And unless the government enshrine the thing in law, it is unenforceable. So I can see why people doing those jobs just wouldn't want the conflict.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> If you mean the Sunflower lanyard, I believe that in itself doesn't give the wearer exemption.
> 
> The card attached to it does.


Just been on the Gov.uk site. The exemption card is also a joke as a handmade sign will work just as well apparently. As you are under no obligation to prove an exemption.


----------



## mrs phas

@Lurcherlad , thank you for not taking offence or what I said as personal
At the place he works, the door staff are not even allowed to wear masks, as
"They dont give the right corperate look and doesn't allow the correct customer interfacing" 
Basically, companies know that so many door staff are still out of work, at the moment, any who object are easily replaced


----------



## StormyThai

18 new cases in town in 7 days.


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> Pubs and clubs have Bouncers on the door - I think I'd rather pay for their services, than risk contracting Covid from some moron who wouldn't comply.


Pretty sure none of the pubs in my locale have bouncers...


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Pretty sure none of the pubs in my locale have bouncers...


The only places that have them near me is when they are opening late, which isn't currently happening.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Oh joy, we are going to Covid Marshalls, who will have no powers to enforce anything, just advise and councils will not get any extra money to pay for them, so if they can't afford them, they don't have to have them. Well done BJ you just get more like DT everyday.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Oh joy, we are going to Covid Marshalls, who will have no powers to enforce anything, just advise and councils will not get any extra money to pay for them, so if they can't afford them, they don't have to have them. Well done BJ you just get more like DT everyday.


Councils are being given tonnes of money to pay for anything Covid related.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Jesthar said:


> Pretty sure none of the pubs in my locale have bouncers...


Out of the many pubs we have here I think only one has a bouncer and they are there to stop anyone entering when they are full. I am 100% certain they are not there to prevent those not wearing a mask from entering as wearing a mask is not a requirement in Pubs.

Our supermarkets are small non have door mangers, one rotas their staff so they each do a day of queue management, they might remind customers to wear a mask but they are advised not to confront or deny entry based on non mask wearing. The other relies on a traffic light system and the other two much smaller shops, now that panic buying has clamed down, just carry on as normal. I would rather some one not wearing a mask just got on with their shop and get out, the last thing I want is for them to be delayed and getting into a shouting match with staff, spit flying everywhere and the doors being closed to detain non mask wearer while we await the police!


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Just been on the Gov.uk site. The exemption card is also a joke as a handmade sign will work just as well apparently. As you are under no obligation to prove an exemption.


I saw that after I posted - rules as much use as a chocolate fire guard then.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Good job we went shopping on Wednesday as Birmingham is going into lockdown again and taking the Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield with it. Lets hope people take it seriously.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I saw that after I posted - rules as much use as a chocolate fire guard then.


It seems that way :Banghead


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Happy Paws2 said:


> Good job we went shopping on Wednesday as Birmingham is going into lockdown again and taking the Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield with it. Lets hope people take it seriously.


 You will be fine to go shopping HP (provided you feel safe to do so of course!) The new restrictions in Birmingham and surrounding towns only prohibits people from meeting others who are not in their household or bubble, either inside the home of in private gardens. Businesses such as shops however remain as they were and the same `group of six` rules apply in pubs etc, so while you can`t have anyone over for coffee you can meet up to five family/friends in a pub.


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> You will be fine to go shopping HP (provided you feel safe to do so of course!) The new restrictions in Birmingham and surrounding towns only prohibits people from meeting others who are not in their household or bubble, either inside the home of in private gardens. Businesses such as shops however remain as they were and the same `group of six` rules apply in pubs etc, so while you can`t have anyone over for coffee you can meet up to five family/friends in a pub.


We enough food in for a few weeks and Sainsbury's deliver most of the heavy stuff every Thursday so I can increase my order, so we aren't going anywhere.

I always have very bad colds and coughs in the winter, so we have already decided that we'll go out in November get the Christmas food we can freeze and Sainsbury's can bring everything else we need and I'm not going out until the end of February unless it's something we really can't do without.


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> We enough food in for a few weeks and Sainsbury's deliver most of the heavy stuff every Thursday so I can increase my order, so we aren't going anywhere.
> 
> I always have very bad colds and coughs in the winter, so we have already decided that we'll go out in November get the Christmas food we can freeze and Sainsbury's can bring everything else we need and I'm not going out until the end of February unless it's something we really can't do without.


Hope you and your husband stay safe.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> We enough food in for a few weeks and Sainsbury's deliver most of the heavy stuff every Thursday so I can increase my order, so we aren't going anywhere.
> 
> I always have very bad colds and coughs in the winter, so we have already decided that we'll go out in November get the Christmas food we can freeze and Sainsbury's can bring everything else we need and I'm not going out until the end of February unless it's something we really can't do without.


If you are happy at home, I can't see the point of taking the risk.
You could always just go for a little ride out on your scooter, if it's warm enough. rather than going into anywhere


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Watching six local areas. Last week there were 1-3 cases in each every day, this week 3-6 cases in each a day.


 It's been suggested that the ''eating out to help out'', altho' benefitting participating restaurants, may have contributed to the spike. There were huge queues outside Wagamama all day long where we are. I couldn't work out what the queue was for, then it dawned on me.


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> Some are behind a screen and some aren't...doesn't make the blind bit of difference to me because unless that screen is air tight they are still adding to the viral load on the bus...all the screen does is stop direct spit.
> 
> Maybe if public transport drivers (not all taxi drivers are wearing masks either), shop works and the like started to lead by example by wearing masks OR face visors even though they are apparently exempt (because a virus knows the difference between a shop worker and a customer -insert sarcasm-) then maybe others might follow.
> Someone not wearing a mask? Well you ask for their exemption or you refuse entry...if they kick off you shut the door and then call the police - it's not hard!


I understand that London Transport personnel who come into contact with ''the public'' are supplied with free masks, but wearing one is ''discretionary''.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> We enough food in for a few weeks and Sainsbury's deliver most of the heavy stuff every Thursday so I can increase my order, so we aren't going anywhere.
> 
> I always have very bad colds and coughs in the winter, so we have already decided that we'll go out in November get the Christmas food we can freeze and Sainsbury's can bring everything else we need and I'm not going out until the end of February unless it's something we really can't do without.


I'm beginning to feel the same way as you, except unfortunately because no one delivers groceries to where I live, I have to go out to buy fresh food.

Hungary did extremely well compared to a lot of European countries, but after opening the borders and relaxing some of the rules, the cases of new infections has rocketed. Yesterday we had an incredible 916 new cases which is more than we had in a week in April. Fortunately the death count hasn't increased and still remains at one or two each day.

Wearing of masks is mandatory on public transport and failure to do so results in an on the spot fine of approximately £12.50 handed out by the inspector. Failure to pay on the spot results in the fine increasing to £20 with the amount increasing every day thereafter.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Oh joy, we are going to Covid Marshalls, who will have no powers to enforce anything, just advise and councils will not get any extra money to pay for them, so if they can't afford them, they don't have to have them. Well done BJ you just get more like DT everyday.


The minute you give someone a title such as warden or marshall, many of them morph into little Hitlers too. But this guy knows the rules. (Apologies if it has already been posted.) Actually it appears he is not wearing a mask either. Cool!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> The minute you give someone a title such as warden or marshall, many of them morph into little Hitlers too. But this guy knows the rules. (Apologies if it has already been posted.)


Give someone a little power and rules don't apply to them :Banghead


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> The minute you give someone a title such as warden or marshall, many of them morph into little Hitlers too. But this guy knows the rules. (Apologies if it has already been posted.)


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Give someone a little power and rules don't apply to them :Banghead


 I know; the traffic wardens near me always park their scooters on a double yellow.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> If you are happy at home, I can't see the point of taking the risk.
> You could always just go for a little ride out on your scooter, if it's warm enough. rather than going into anywhere


Yes I had thought about having a little ride out now then just to get a change of air. Just keeping away from the shops.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m lucky that my go to place of choice is a garden centre with cafe and outside tables.

As the boys headed off to football I headed for a local one and sat outside in the sunshine and ate my fish and chips 

They were fully set up and compliant (as were customers) and being largely open air all over I was quite happy to potter a while .... long enough to get a couple of plants from the bargain corner


----------



## Boxer123

Cases have exploded in the last week. Where do we go from here ? I can’t see folk sticking to the rules. I drove past a cafe today hordes of people all bunched together.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The way things are going Christmas will be canceled this year, well Christmas as we know it.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going Christmas will be canceled this year, well Christmas as we know it.


There's a lot more cases than is being recorded. So many people can't get a test


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> There's a lot more cases than is being recorded. So many people can't get a test


Very scary.........


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going Christmas will be canceled this year, well Christmas as we know it.


There is more than six of us as I've not produced my mother a grandchild I'm way down the list so it might be Xmas just me and boxers.


----------



## ForestWomble

I'm keeping an eye on my areas and the increase is so scary.

I'm supposed to be seeing my parents this coming week and I'm not sure what to do, cancel or risk it?


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> I'm keeping an eye on my areas and the increase is so scary.
> 
> I'm supposed to be seeing my parents this coming week and I'm not sure what to do, cancel or risk it?


Have they been out a lot ?


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> Have they been out a lot ?


They haven't personally, but within the last week they've had visitors who do go out a lot.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> There is more than six of us as I've not produced my mother a grandchild I'm way down the list so it might be Xmas just me and boxers.


It will be just me and OH as normal.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going Christmas will be canceled this year, well Christmas as we know it.


 We can but hope that particular event is cancelled - every cloud has a silver lining.


----------



## Magyarmum

Unless things alter drastically it'll just be me and the Schnauzer boys for Christmas because my family is in the UK


----------



## Jesthar

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going Christmas will be canceled this year, well Christmas as we know it.


No it won't. It will just be different. Might even move away from being the overcommercialised greedfest it seems to have morphed into in recent years...


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> They haven't personally but they've had visitors who have within the last week.


Tricky one maybe ask them to isolate and wait a week.


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> Unless things alter drastically it'll just be me and the Schnauzer boys for Christmas because my family is in the UK


At least it will mean we can focus are attentions on their turkey dinner .


----------



## rona

ForestWomble said:


> I'm keeping an eye on my areas and the increase is so scary.
> 
> I'm supposed to be seeing my parents this coming week and I'm not sure what to do, cancel or risk it?


What risk are you? 
Have you mixed with anyone or has someone invaded your safe space?


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> What risk are you?
> Have you mixed with anyone or has someone invaded your safe space?


I'm not a risk as far as I'm aware.


----------



## rona

ForestWomble said:


> I'm not a risk as far as I'm aware.


Then it's really up to them if they want to risk it. Have a chat


----------



## HarlequinCat

My OHs sisters kid was sent home on Friday with a cold. She tried to get a test at poole her closest one on Saturday, but the nearest available was Taunton in Somerset. She thought she'd booked it but didn't get a qr code or confirmation through, so she had to go back and do it all again, but then it said the nearest was Cardiff, which is just too far to take a sick 6 Yr old. She had to try again today and luckily got Weymouth.

They have to wait for the results now and in the meantime neither she nor her husband can work etc.

We go past the poole testing site often and its just empty. I have no idea whats going on there, but they need to sort something out. The system seems to be just a mess and we aren't even in winter yet


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> At least it will mean we can focus are attentions on their turkey dinner .


I'm a vegetarian and in Hungary they usually have fish not meat for Christmas dinner which is on Christmas Eve. The boys love sprats cooked in the microwave so that's probably what they'll get for their Christmas meal.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Cases have exploded in the last week. Where do we go from here ? I can't see folk sticking to the rules. I drove past a cafe today hordes of people all bunched together.


OH and I went for our usual Sunday drive and found a pop up cafe at a (mostly closed) craft centre, then a quiet country pub for a pint on the way home.

There were few enough people around for us to preserve our "safe zone" and masks, visors and antibac were very much in evidence.

The only people I saw without SD or masks were 3 young men who could, of course, been related/partners/bubbled etc., giving them the benefit of the doubt 

We're resigned to "self preservation" going forward as numbers are bound to rise from more testing and less adherence to guidelines.


----------



## mrs phas

Be aware
This was posted on our local FB page today, the poster is, usually, a trusted poster..........



> And so it begins!......
> 'Good Morning (At 1:30am) I'm called from the NHS track and trace service, Sorry to wake you !!According to our system, you are likely to have been in close proximity to someone who has tested positive for COVID-19. This means that you now need to self-isolate for 7 days and take a COVID-19 test.'
> 'OK. Can you tell me who that person was?'
> 'I'm not able to tell you that. That is confidential information.'
> 'Right. Um... so ....'
> 'But you do need to be tested within the next 72 hours. So can I just get the best mailing address so that we can send a kit to you?'
> 'Ok (gives address)'
> I just need to take a payment card so that we can finalize this and send the kit to you.'
> 'Sorry - a payment card? I thought this was all free?'
> 'No - I'm afraid not. There is a one-off fee of £50 for the kit and test results. Could you read off the long card number for me, please, when you're ready.'
> 'No - that's not right. This is part of the NHS so there's no charge.'
> 'I'm afraid there is. Can you give me the card number please - this is very important, and there are penalties for not complying.'
> Puts the phone down.
> This is how scammers work. And vulnerable people will fall for it."
> Don't fall for it...!
> 
> Please share.
> 
> Just a warning for everyone in the UK, be careful don't fall for it, stay safe


Doesn't take long for scammers to catch up


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> Then it's really up to them if they want to risk it. Have a chat


If I decided I wasn't sure about them coming we would be having a chat, I just wasn't sure if it was a chat I needed to bring up or if I was being too worried (as normal).

Think I'll have a chat and go from there.


----------



## Siskin

I’m ok meeting with friends and family outside, but not indoors. Sounds like it will be a quiet Christmas for us too which we’re happy with. We tend to have a winter ‘lockdown’ most years, we’re like a pair of hermits until spring comes


----------



## mrs phas

Was to be first year in new house 
Unfortunately, if six is still the limit, we have seven minimum
Could always stick one or two in garden, and feed through window, I suppose


----------



## rona

ForestWomble said:


> if I was being too worried (as normal).


Nothing in this climate is too worried.
If my friend wasn't dying, no way on this earth would I be doing half the things I am. My risk levels are much too high for my liking 

If you don't have "that chat" you never know how worried your parents are about coming


----------



## Cully

Very worrying as most of my family are in Birmingham, so especially worried about both sons and grandchildren.
Christmas will be a dismal affair.
For myself I'm just disappointed that as I was beginning to venture out, it looks like I'm going to have to forget about such thoughts.
Very annoyed that the council water inspector who called last week just didn't get my hints as I kept backing away from him to SD. Not only did he keep moving towards me but was actually carrying a face mask in his hand. This is sheltered housing for elderly people. Moron!
Just watching BBC news. Definitely another wave by Spring and the blame being put on poor track and trace. Can't believe it @HarlequinCat about the Poole testing site being empty, it's a disgraceful waste of resources.
Monday morning rant over. Hope everyone has a good day.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Very worrying as most of my family are in Birmingham, so especially worried about both sons and grandchildren.
> Christmas will be a dismal affair.
> For myself I'm just disappointed that as I was beginning to venture out, it looks like I'm going to have to forget about such thoughts.


We just on the board of Birmingham and LIchfield so we are going back into lockdown, We have been going out once a week for a while now but I'm getting worried about going out. As for Christmas it doesn't bother us to much as there is only the two of us now, so really it's just another day with a posh dinner.


----------



## Magyarmum

*The Daily Mash*

*Covid-19 totally confused about what it's allowed to do where*
14th September 2020








*THE coronavirus has admitted being a bit confused about who it is allowed to infect in England, Scotland and Wales under new rules. *

Covid-19, which previously thought it could be transmitted to anyone apart from the chief adviser to the prime minister and his family, admitted that the differing rules throughout the UK have got it a bit mixed up.

It said: "Right. So in England, as long as there's only six of you - including kids - I have to stay away. But you can be from six different households, workplaces, whatever?

"But then if I cross the border to Scotland that's six people but not including kids? So there could easily be like 12 people total. But I can infect them if they're from more than two households?

"Or in Wales kids still don't count, but it's kids under 11 not under 12? And groups of 30 allowed outdoors? I mean they're just making this up as they go along aren't they.

"I tell you what, I can't follow all this. I'm just going to infect whoever's lungs I get into, and you can contain me with testing and tracing.

"What do you mean you've got no functioning test-and-trace system? Jesus Christ, what the bloody hell have you been doing all summer?"


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Very annoyed that the council water inspector who called last week just didn't get my hints as I kept backing away from him to SD. Not only did he keep moving towards me but was actually carrying a face mask in his hand.


If ever such a situation arises again, just be firm and ask that person to put their mask on and AD!

Edit. Social Distance, Not AD!!!


----------



## Jesthar

SbanR said:


> If ever such a situation arises again, just be firm and ask that person to put their mask on and AD!


Agreed. Skip the hints, go straight to the request to obey the rules. If they refuse, report them.


----------



## Blackadder

IMO this whole thing is becoming a bit of a farce! Yes, we need to use common sense but let's get real. I can't have my son, partner & 2 grandchildren over for a BBQ because that means 7 people in the garden (there's 3 of us) but I'm encouraged to go to work where I regularly mix with up to 20 other co-workers! How does that work??

While cases are increasing, hospitalizations & deaths are not. As you can see here deaths are pretty much a flat line https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...andandwalesprovisional/weekending28august2020 (scroll down a little for the graph)

I don't know why the Gov is doing what it is but it doesn't make any sense, to me anyway. I really don't see how limiting social gatherings yet allowing unlimited contact at work is even a thought out out strategy....


----------



## Cleo38

Blackadder said:


> IMO this whole thing is becoming a bit of a farce! Yes, we need to use common sense but let's get real. I can't have my son, partner & 2 grandchildren over for a BBQ because that means 7 people in the garden (there's 3 of us) but I'm encouraged to go to work where I regularly mix with up to 20 other co-workers! How does that work??
> 
> While cases are increasing, hospitalizations & deaths are not. As you can see here deaths are pretty much a flat line https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...andandwalesprovisional/weekending28august2020 (scroll down a little for the graph)
> 
> I don't know why the Gov is doing what it is but it doesn't make any sense, to me anyway. I really don't see how limiting social gatherings yet allowing unlimited contact at work is even a thought out out strategy....


It's bloody ridiculous. People can go & sit with strangers in pubs & restaurants but can't have relatives over. F*ck that, Too many people are missing out on social interaction & being affected by it. I'm going to see my family at the weekend & there will be more than 6 of us. All of us are being vigilant regarding social interactions but it's been a difficult time for us lately so I couldn't care less what the rules are this week.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think the idea behind it is that in “family & friends” groups we’re more likely to forget social distancing because we’re used to (and generally more comfortable with/likely to) enter each other’s personal space - hug, kiss cheeks, etc.

We went out to eat last night for the first time at a restaurant for OH’s birthday and had a table outside as far away from anyone as we could get.

We still followed SD, antibac’d and put a mask on to go to the loo etc.

When we pop round to visit MIL and BIL’s family outside on the terrace, we have to be ready to step back from them because they automatically creep closer and OH is very nervous of getting too near anyone who is “out and about” (and not following any guidelines, from what they say.).

BIL and SIL travelled 2 hours in a car with friends to a house party (and stayed the night) with more friends, and daughter has just been away to Greece for a week with friends, other 2 kids are back at school, wife is travelling on trains, etc.

Makes them high risk for OH who was shielding before.


----------



## Magyarmum

As new cases of infection have rocketed over the past three weeks, I've decided I am not going anywhere (ever again if necessary) unless I absolutely have to. Unfortunately I have to do grocery shopping as no one delivers to the village. Everything else, dog food for example I can order online.

By trial and error I've discovered the best time to shop in my local town is either on a Wednesday or a Sunday around noon as most Hungarians are at home having their lunch. Last Sunday everyone apart from the cashiers were wearing masks and social distancing and as the cashiers were behind large plexiglass barriers they really presented no danger.

The Schnauzer boys will be delighted because when the weather gets a little cooler I'm planning little trips to some of the more off beat places where we can have a picnic and take a walk without meeting other people. They're getting spoilt, but why not because bless them they're the one's who keep me sane ......... well sort of


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> just me and boxers.


 Could be worse . . . I rather like being alone with the cats; I can talk rubbish to them and they seem to like it.


----------



## Calvine

3dogs2cats said:


> We can but hope that particular event is cancelled - every cloud has a silver lining.


 Maybe you should change your name to Mrs Scrooge! But I know what you mean . . . if push comes to shove, I will be the first to volunteer to be absent. Humbug (there, I said it).


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> BIL and SIL travelled 2 hours in a car with friends to a house party (and stayed the night) with more friends, and daughter has just been away to Greece for a week with friends, other 2 kids are back at school, wife is travelling on trains, etc.
> 
> Makes them high risk for OH who was shielding before.


Best to keep them away for a few weeks just in case they are carrying it.


----------



## Cleo38

Lurcherlad said:


> I think the idea behind it is that in "family & friends" groups we're more likely to forget social distancing because we're used to (and generally more comfortable with/likely to) enter each other's personal space - hug, kiss cheeks, etc.
> 
> We went out to eat last night for the first time at a restaurant for OH's birthday and had a table outside as far away from anyone as we could get.
> 
> We still followed SD, antibac'd and put a mask on to go to the loo etc.
> 
> When we pop round to visit MIL and BIL's family outside on the terrace, we have to be ready to step back from them because they automatically creep closer and OH is very nervous of getting too near anyone who is "out and about" (and not following any guidelines, from what they say.).
> 
> BIL and SIL travelled 2 hours in a car with friends to a house party (and stayed the night) with more friends, and daughter has just been away to Greece for a week with friends, other 2 kids are back at school, wife is travelling on trains, etc.
> 
> Makes them high risk for OH who was shielding before.


That might be the excuse but personally I don't buy it & it is another example of a rule set that simply doesn't make sense. Pubs are open & we all know drunk people are in no way capable of simple things yet this is acceptable ....

I honestly can't believe people are still complying with these nonsensical rules that have been bought in simply to make it look like the government is 'doing something'.

So many people are being isolated & suffering loneliness unnecessarily because they will do what they are told regardless of how ridiculous it is, it is so sad.


----------



## StormyThai

Olympia has been cancelled...that just sucks Christmas really won't be the same.
Can't see my dad and no Olympia. At least I have SS to look forward too.


----------



## ForestWomble

ForestWomble said:


> If I decided I wasn't sure about them coming we would be having a chat, I just wasn't sure if it was a chat I needed to bring up or if I was being too worried (as normal).
> 
> Think I'll have a chat and go from there.


We are leaving it tomorrow and I'll see them next week instead providing things are OK.


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> That might be the excuse but personally I don't buy it & it is another example of a rule set that simply doesn't make sense. Pubs are open & we all know drunk people are in no way capable of simple things yet this is acceptable ....
> 
> I honestly can't believe people are still complying with these nonsensical rules that have been bought in simply to make it look like the government is 'doing something'.
> 
> So many people are being isolated & suffering loneliness unnecessarily because they will do what they are told regardless of how ridiculous it is, it is so sad.


So many people dead because it was all poo-pooed (me included) as hard flu, so lockdown, social distancing, mask wearing (yes, no, maybe, yes wear them) and isoltion came too late
I may not agree with everything said and done
But
I'm glad I'm still here, because I isolated for 15 weeks, saw no one except Matt, not even my other children
And
Wearing a mask isn't that hard, so I shall continue to do so
I would hate to be asymptomatic, and cause someone's death, just because others find it too ridiculous
Too late
Yes
But
Too ridiculous
No


----------



## Cleo38

mrs phas said:


> So many people dead because it was all poo-pooed (me included) as hard flu, so lockdown, social distancing, mask wearing (yes, no, maybe, yes wear them) and isoltion came too late
> I may not agree with everything said and done
> But
> I'm glad I'm still here, because I isolated for 15 weeks, saw no one except Matt, not even my other children
> And
> Wearing a mask isn't that hard, so I shall continue to do so
> I would hate to be asymptomatic, and cause someone's death, just because others find it too ridiculous
> Too late
> Yes
> But
> Too ridiculous
> No


I didn't mention not wearing a mask? I wear one, even if the science is sketchy if it makes people feel safer then it's not a problem for me tbh. But being told not to have groups over 6 especially when it might be family members, especially when some of those family members may be struggling but it's ok to go out & socialise with many strangers then IMO the rules are ridiculous


----------



## Lurcherlad

Families can still get together, just not on large numbers.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Families can still get together, just not on large numbers.


Yes but no more than 6 people at any one time.


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yes but no more than 6 people at any one time.


And depending where you live .... in the rest of the UK the rules are all different, numbers you can socialise with, number of households, children under certain ages not being included in the rules ..... This is crazy!

We have people going to work, travelling on busy public transport yet they can't have their family round for a birthday party or other event despite being careful, yet technically they could all happen to meet at a local pub & that would be ok.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> That might be the excuse but personally I don't buy it & it is another example of a rule set that simply doesn't make sense. Pubs are open & we all know drunk people are in no way capable of simple things yet this is acceptable ....


It is frustrating how many of the rules put forth make no sense, or aren't enforced. 
We have restaurants open inside. You have to wear a mask inside, but once you're eating obviously the mask comes off. So it's safe to have the mask off to eat, but coming in the restaurant, you have to have it on. No wonder people are confused and frustrated.

At school students have to wear a mask unless the class is small enough to place kids more than 6 feet apart. If they're 6 feet apart they can take a 'mask break' which I totally agree with because 8 hours of wearing a mask is a lot. 
To eat lunch they have to eat in classrooms instead of the cafeteria as there would be too many kids in the cafeteria. The same class that has to keep masks on during class time, can take masks off to eat lunch. Even if there isn't enough room to social distance.

I mean, on the one hand, I get it, people are trying to do the best they can and I applaud that. But I also understand the frustration from those who feel like the rules are just there to make it look like we're doing something.


----------



## Lurcherlad

It’s not perfect - never going to be - it’s damage limitation.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> And depending where you live .... in the rest of the UK the rules are all different, numbers you can socialise with, number of households, children under certain ages not being included in the rules ..... This is crazy!
> 
> We have people going to work, travelling on busy public transport yet they can't have their family round for a birthday party or other event despite being careful, yet technically they could all happen to meet at a local pub & that would be ok.


Not not sure, they were saying on the news that if two families of 4 meet in the street they aren't allowed to stop have talk.


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not not sure, they were saying on the news that if two families of 4 meet in the street they aren't allowed to stop have talk.


What?! Hahahaha, some of the things I have read I have had to double check they were true & not just p*ss taking as they are so bizarre. 
You only have to look at what is or isn't acceptable to realise there is some agenda going on regarding MP's & where they have shares, own businesses, etc. This isn't about keeping people safe IMO


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> What?! Hahahaha, some of the things I have read I have had to double check they were true & not just p*ss taking as they are so bizarre.
> You only have to look at what is or isn't acceptable to realise there is some agenda going on regarding MP's & where they have shares, own businesses, etc. This isn't about keeping people safe IMO


I think we should just use common sense, keep to the 6 people in a house, 2 metres apart and avoid crowded places and wear a face masks, wash our hands, It's not rocket science.

Just don't put ourselves or others in danger, don't take silly risks, just because we get confused with the messages from BJ, we are old enough it think for ourselves we have a brain use it.

edited for spelling


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Boxer123




----------



## Magyarmum

A very interesting interview with Christian Drosten a virologist who advises the German government about Covid-19.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-virolo...er&r=1716862629119609&lid=1622909&pm_ln=51003

*German virologist Christian Drosten: 'We won't get rid of masks anytime soon'*


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


>


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

Well a second lockdown is on the cards. I better start ordering the loo roll.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Boxer123 said:


> Well a second lockdown is on the cards. I better start ordering the loo roll.


Probably a good idea.
Few weeks ago UK factory that makes a few brands had some covid cases!


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Well a second lockdown is on the cards. I better start ordering the loo roll.


If you can't find any I'll get the Schnauzer boys to pop over, from Hungary with some.

We never ran out of loo rolls only flour and yeast!


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> If you can't find any I'll get the Schnauzer boys to pop over, from Hungary with some.
> 
> We never ran out of loo rolls only flour and yeast!


If you do that I may keep a Schnauzer and send you a boxer.


----------



## Boxer123

Mum2Heidi said:


> Probably a good idea.
> Few weeks ago UK factory that makes a few brands had some covid cases!



​


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> If you do that I may keep a Schnauzer and send you a boxer.


That's OK. I was originally going to have a Boxer but due to a mistranslation ended up with a Shar-Pei instead


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> That's OK. I was originally going to have a Boxer but due to a mistranslation ended up with a Shar-Pei instead


They do say you get the dog you need not the dog you want.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Mum2Heidi

Boxer123 said:


> ​


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...break-small-number-workers-test-positive.html


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 449649


I nearly spilled orange juice over my keyboard when I saw this


----------



## rona

Are they fiddling the figures again?
Two of my local areas have less cases than they did yesterday


----------



## Lurcherlad

Ours is less than last week.


----------



## Boxer123

We are less than last week as well.


----------



## Elles

Happy Paws2 said:


> I nearly spilled orange juice over my keyboard when I saw this


I'm anti meme, but sometimes it has to be done doesn't it. :Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Are they fiddling the figures again?
> Two of my local areas have less cases than they did yesterday


I think they have been fiddling the figures one way or the other since it started.


----------



## margy

So we're back on local lock down here in Northumberland. So disappointed I can't see my granddaughter. She is only 16 months. I said goodbye to her yesterday and pray it won't be long before I can cuddle and kiss her soon.


----------



## mrs phas

So many young people around this evening, none in groups of 6, none social distancing, none wearing masks, one group, in upper school uniform, of 13 came out of McDonald's, paying no attention to anyone or where, walked straight out in front of me, hence being able to count them, yet I, driving under the speed limit, was apparently in the wrong (with a few expletives thrown in for good measure) because I bipped my horn at them
This, people, is our future!


----------



## O2.0

Unproven but promising. 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...hIpNiKTB8CQAEPHlNXrn9x-BeBcWr-2oKOW5vGEYU1KDg


----------



## Arny

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 449650


Whoever wrote this clearly hasn't met my grandpa!


----------



## Arny

In the plasma donation trail they're finding women generally have significantly lower antibody levels (or none at all) than men, often too low to donate. Or perhaps their level falls more rapidly??
Interesting as the virus adversely affects men more so could suggest men and women are fighting off the disease differently.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Unproven but promising.
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...hIpNiKTB8CQAEPHlNXrn9x-BeBcWr-2oKOW5vGEYU1KDg


Another interesting theory.

https://www.livescience.com/covid-1...XzLUpFoGPVyGLGnGOF9P7nwanLfnt9v1gLHUpLbxSIVYb

*Could wearing glasses lower the risk of COVID-19?*


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Another interesting theory.
> 
> https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-glasses-protection.html?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=23321&utm_content=20200918_Coronavirus_Infographic+&utm_term=3683029&m_i=jbyWofhrCgXJYCu0HU+GK3z2MYa2p7RWgX4pQWh2ArHCsb7GpXzLUpFoGPVyGLGnGOF9P7nwanLfnt9v1gLHUpLbxSIVYb
> 
> *Could wearing glasses lower the risk of COVID-19?*


Interesting
Another forum I belong to, there is a thread querying why her vet was wearing goggles and was wondering if this was new advice


----------



## MammaMia!

I know a few doctor friends that say most hospitals are on red alert again. We should be locking down but they care more about the economy than loss of lives.


----------



## Arny

MammaMia! said:


> We should be locking down but they care more about the economy than loss of lives.


The economy is also people's lives.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MammaMia! said:


> *I have a few doctor friends that say most hospitals are on red alert again*. We should be locking down but they care more about the economy than loss of lives.


They have put the Nightingale Hospital in Birmingham on red alert again, very worrying times ahead.

We have to go for out normal flu jabs on Thursday and I'm a little worried about going, it will be the first time I'll be that close to anyone in 6 months.


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> why her vet was wearing goggles


I had a dentist some time ago who always wore goggles even when there was no flu around and covid unheard of. But the vets at our practice aren't.


----------



## MammaMia!

Happy Paws2 said:


> They have put the Nightingale Hospital in Birmingham on red alert again, very worrying times ahead.
> 
> We have to go for out normal flu jabs on Thursday and I'm a little worried about going, it will be the first time I'll be that close to anyone in 6 months.


I don't blame you! Yet, i'm sure there is nothing to worry about as hopefully they should have lots of precautionary measures in place, especially for things like vaccinations. I definitely am still anxious about going outside but I think it sometimes helps to see people out and about again.


----------



## Cully

I've actually got a list of things I need to speak to my doctor about but have been putting it off until I feel more confident about going to the surgery, and probably onto outpatients too. Now with the likelihood of another lockdown I'm not going to be able to get treatment and I'm not sure how long I can leave it. I dread going through Christmas feeling this way.


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> They have put the Nightingale Hospital in Birmingham on red alert again, very worrying times ahead.
> 
> We have to go for out normal flu jabs on Thursday and I'm a little worried about going, it will be the first time I'll be that close to anyone in 6 months.


I had my flu jab this morning.
It was well organised. We were channelled through smoothly, like items on a conveyor belt

Ps. A friend sent me a photo from her flu session. Her GP surgery did theirs outdoors, under an open tent.


----------



## Cully

Goodness knows what it'll be like this year at my surgery (if they do them). It's normally just like a cattle market as everyone waits (sleeve rolled up) in the small waiting room, all jostling for space. It couldn't be helped I suppose pre covid, as the surgery is/was an old house with small rooms. I don't envy them trying to arrange it all so it's covid safe.


----------



## Arny

Cully said:


> Goodness knows what it'll be like this year at my surgery (if they do them). It's normally just like a cattle market as everyone waits (sleeve rolled up) in the small waiting room, all jostling for space. It couldn't be helped I suppose pre covid, as the surgery is/was an old house with small rooms. I don't envy them trying to arrange it all so it's covid safe.


They might do it elsewhere.
Ours are doing them in the village hall.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> Goodness knows what it'll be like this year at my surgery (if they do them). It's normally just like a cattle market as everyone waits (sleeve rolled up) in the small waiting room, all jostling for space. It couldn't be helped I suppose pre covid, as the surgery is/was an old house with small rooms. I don't envy them trying to arrange it all so it's covid safe.


That's like mine, my surgery is an old cottage and normally it's just like a cattle market on 'flu jab day', during covid they've been sending anyone who really needs to be seen to a sister surgery in the nearby town as the place is too small, They'll probably do the same for the jabs.


----------



## Cully

ForestWomble said:


> That's like mine, my surgery is an old cottage and normally it's just like a cattle market on 'flu jab day', during covid they've been sending anyone who really needs to be seen to a sister surgery in the nearby town as the place is too small, They'll probably do the same for the jabs.


Oh goodness, I hope not. My only transport is my mobility scooter and I don't go far on it.
I'm still waiting for my pneumococcal vaccine from last December. I couldn't get an appointment as they'd run out of vaccine. Then covid hit!
They don't seem to be calling patients in for regular clinics like diabetic and blood pressure either. It's very worrying.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> I had my flu jab this morning.
> It was well organised. We were channelled through smoothly, like items on a conveyor belt
> 
> Ps. A friend sent me a photo from her flu session. Her GP surgery did theirs outdoors, under an open tent.


I'm having mine done at the Lloyds pharmacy in Sainsbury's.


----------



## HarlequinCat

What I dont get, is that around here busy roads are getting blocked by these stupid wooden planter things making it a no through road for cars with the reason that it is because of covid? How that helps with covid, I have no idea! Its just making a rat run out of the little side roads now, and making main roads busier near it


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> What I dont get, is that around here busy roads are getting blocked by these stupid wooden planter things making it a no through road for cars with the reason that it is because of covid? How that helps with covid, I have no idea! Its just making a rat run out of the little side roads now, and making main roads busier near it


We've got whole lanes blocked for bikes. Not seen a bike yet but traffic has huge pollution belching queues, they will only get worse the colder and wetter the weather gets.
Had to turn left at a traffic lit junction with one of these blocked off lanes, I really don't know what would have happened, had a bike been coming up on my blind side! An accident waiting to happen..........


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> Interesting
> Another forum I belong to, there is a thread querying why her vet was wearing goggles and was wondering if this was new advice


Eyes are a common entry site for viral infections , that's what the 'no touching faces' campaign was predominantly about.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> I've actually got a list of things I need to speak to my doctor about but have been putting it off until I feel more confident about going to the surgery, and probably onto outpatients too. Now with the likelihood of another lockdown I'm not going to be able to get treatment and I'm not sure how long I can leave it. I dread going through Christmas feeling this way.


Arrange a phone consultation to go over the list and hopefully, the doc can reassure you or refer you on if necessary.

My husband was referred for X-ray and blood tests following a phone consultation.


----------



## Siskin

We’ve had our flu vaccine invites which we will book up for when we are home again. Last year it was very easy. Turned up, one or two in the waiting room, after a few minutes we were called in together and were quickly attended to. Will be interesting to see how it’s handled this year. Bear in mind this is a countryside practice which has another surgery in a bigger village (Bourton on the Water). I think more people go there, it seemed busier when I went there once then our surgery.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Arrange a phone consultation to go over the list and hopefully, the doc can reassure you or refer you on if necessary.
> 
> My husband was referred for X-ray and blood tests following a phone consultation.


I plan to ring next week and speak to someone, a Dr I hope.


----------



## Happy Paws2

There is a medical team doing a briefing at 11 this morning.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


>


This sort of stuff is driving me mad on one of my local FB pages. As soon as someone posts something covid related, there's a few people that immediately jump on it with this sort of crap.

It's getting really tiresome now.


----------



## Jaf

My closest village has it’s first case. Population of 2,000 and a lot are elderly. 

Wondering if the people who think it’s a hoax will start paying attention now.


----------



## westie~ma

Bridgend to go into local lockdown. That's the county next to me. 
All council leaders been called to Cardiff tomorrow so I will wait to see what Drakeford has in store for us. 

Was due to go up to London with dh next week, might be in lockdown instead. 

I've been prepping for a second wave since June.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Hopefully, the people who weren’t, will now start taking this seriously


----------



## Happy Paws2

It will be interesting in the House of Commons this afternoon.


----------



## rona

Seems no politician has investments in the hospitality industry


----------



## Boxer123

Very worrying times I see the other first ministers have pretty much had to beg Boris for a meeting. We can’t lock down again financially but I really hope something is put in place to protect the vulnerable.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Very worrying times I see the other first ministers have pretty much had to beg Boris for a meeting. * We can't lock down again financially *but I really hope something is put in place to protect the vulnerable.


If some people don't start to do as they are told, I think BJ will have no choice.


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Seems no politician has investments in the hospitality industry


My son was told that, as there's no furlough support this time, that if BJ put in the 10pm curfew, he and the other 15 staff members, would lose their jobs.
The gaming club he works in wouldn't bother to open at all, as the amount of business they get before 9pm is negligible.
So that's him gone from working 2 jobs, to furloughed, back to 2 jobs, to having no job, at all, for the first time in his working life


----------



## Arny

Happy Paws2 said:


> If some people don't start to do as they are told, I think BJ will have no choice.


The vast majority are doing what they are told but with everyone encouraged to go back to work and school and soon university, what did they think would happen re cases.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Arny said:


> The vast majority are doing what they are told but with everyone encouraged to go back to work and school and soon university, what did they think would happen re cases.


I meant social distancing and no meeting in large groups and not having your houses over run with family and friends.

I agree too many people are moving all round the country taking it with them.


----------



## Arny

Happy Paws2 said:


> I meant social distancing and no meeting in large groups and not having your houses over run with family and friends.


Do you honestly think this is down to having a few friends over and not the fact that people are now in buildings full of people each day.

I really think most are just trying their best while attempting to keep sane. 
It's easy to place blame but really this was inevitable once we came out of lockdown and don't believe it's anyone fault.


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ to speak in the Commons at 12.30 and to the Nation at 8 o'clock tonight.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Arny said:


> D.
> It's easy to place blame but really this was inevitable once we came out of lockdown and don't believe it's anyone fault.


I don't really blame anyone as such, but we really must use some common sense, I've just been watching some a live webcam at the Steam Railway I was surprised how many people still aren't wearing face masks.


----------



## Siskin

We drove over to Southwold yesterday. The plan was to walk on the beach and then have an ice cream. However it was absolutely heaving, so we bought an ice cream from the harbour vendor and left


----------



## tabelmabel

I am on tenterhooks here waiting for nicola sturgeon to speak. Think she is 8.20pm tonight, after boris.

I have barely left my home town since march. It is just a small rural town. I did go up to our nearest big town a couple of weeks ago and it gave me a real good boost mentally just seeing people moving about. Where i live it has been really easy to stay well away from everyone. Has been quite nice really but it was also nice to see shops and people. I even had a brew in m&s cafe

My autistic son has barely left his bedroom (not because he has to shield, just an absence of social drive and the cessation of all his support activities)


So - we have a cottage booked in october just for a week and still within scotland. Booked well before lockdown. We were going to meet our daughter there, havent seen her since christmas. Supposed to see her in july but our hotel was closed so that was off.


Anyway - depressville - if they re impose the 5 mile limit, none of us can go.

And if single household then we can go but our daughter cant meet us there.

We never really got our confidence back after the first lockdown so have been no where - so we were looking forward to a change of scene.

It will definitely do my son a lot of good to go; so keeping everything crossed for good news. . .


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> We drove over to Southwold yesterday. The plan was to walk on the beach and then have an ice cream. However it was absolutely heaving, so we bought an ice cream from the harbour vendor and left


Which is what any sensible person would do innit?

Or maybe not, if the beach was heaving 

I keep hearing "most people are following guidelines" yet the reality often seems to reflect the opposite, quite frankly.


----------



## tabelmabel

Aaaarrgh!!!!!

Just heard on radio news that there *is *a ban on visiting other households on in scotland for next 3 weeks.

So i think that's my daughter's holiday with us out the window.

Keeping everything crossed that we can still go at least.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> I keep hearing "most people are following guidelines" yet the reality often seems to reflect the opposite, quite frankly.


Yeah even though i havent seen a crowd in months, people have forgotten all about any distancing. I know they say the chances of picking it up on a path are remote but i still stand aside to give folk the 2 metre.

Yet oncoming people seem to pass by wide bits where they could have stood in to try and squeeze past me.

I had to put my hand up to an old lady a few weeks ago - really elderly white haired woman coming to see my dogs i think. I just put a hand up and said "woah!!!!"

I did point out 2 metres is 6 foot in old money but i dont think she had any clue to be honest. Even where there is tons of space to get past folk, people dont naturally seem to stick away from others.


----------



## Beth78

I went into Reading town centre this afternoon and there wasn't much in the way of distancing between groups, people were wearing their masks in the actual shops though.
Some people seem to be wearing their masks under their chins, what's the point in that.
I did a bit of a speed run and got my stuff and got out as soon as I could.


----------



## Magyarmum

tabelmabel said:


> I am on tenterhooks here waiting for nicola sturgeon to speak. Think she is 8.20pm tonight, after boris.
> 
> I have barely left my home town since march. It is just a small rural town. I did go up to our nearest big town a couple of weeks ago and it gave me a real good boost mentally just seeing people moving about. Where i live it has been really easy to stay well away from everyone. Has been quite nice really but it was also nice to see shops and people. I even had a brew in m&s cafe
> 
> My autistic son has barely left his bedroom (not because he has to shield, just an absence of social drive and the cessation of all his support activities)
> 
> So - we have a cottage booked in october just for a week and still within scotland. Booked well before lockdown. We were going to meet our daughter there, havent seen her since christmas. Supposed to see her in july but our hotel was closed so that was off.
> 
> Anyway - depressville - if they re impose the 5 mile limit, none of us can go.
> 
> And if single household then we can go but our daughter cant meet us there.
> 
> We never really got our confidence back after the first lockdown so have been no where - so we were looking forward to a change of scene.
> 
> It will definitely do my son a lot of good to go; so keeping everything crossed for good news. . .


I know how you feel. I haven't seen my son and DIL for 16 months and my Granddaughter since last Christmas because with the Coronavirus all plans went to pot.

At present, the only way one of them could come to Hungary is if I needed caring for, which I don't but then we'd both have to spend 10 days in home quarantine (just reduced from 14 days) The whoever then has to spend another 14 days in quarantine on their return to the UK.

Apart from that there's the risk of contracting the virus travelling by train and plane to get here and back and much as I'm longing to see them, I won't let them take the risk!

All very depressing especially as I don't see an end to it, so to cheer myself up and keep myself occupied I'm getting another dog to add to my little crew, hopefully in the next few weeks if all goes well.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I keep hearing "most people are following guidelines" yet the reality often seems to reflect the opposite, quite frankly.


Personally I think it's bull.

Even the PM said in Commons today it was the minority not following the rules, but that isn't the impression I get every time I go outside. It's like the virus doesn't exist.


----------



## MilleD

A member of my team said yesterday that he was out on Friday, and the pub he was in was still serving goldfish bowl drinks.

You know, the ones with a few straws that people share?!  I mean for god's sake, if they can't even stop that, maybe hospitality does need a kick in the arse.


----------



## Calvine




----------



## Lurcherlad

A good point was reiterated on the Downing St press conference yesterday.

People who just want to be left to take their own risk and get on with life as normal should remember that any high rise in Covid will impact the NHS’s ability to diagnose/treat other serious conditions and those patients could die or be seriously affected as a consequence.

Could be one of their loved ones.

This sh*t is so much bigger than any individual.


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh no not the loo roll hoarding starting again

Where i was very lucky @Magyarmum is seeing my son in norwich in february this year. It is SO far to get to norwich from where we are, we hadnt seen him since july 2017. We flew down this time and spent a week there.

So very glad we did that trip before lockdown.

What is sad is that we should have seen my aunt in yorkshire in april. But that couldnt go ahead of course. And i dont think we will get next april either. She is 86. She is ok but frail. I think the reality is we wont see her again. I lost my mum when i was 20 and she is my mums sister; my closest relative really.

In fact my only relative still living apart from my kids, mum in law and i have cousins i dont see or know at all.

It isnt easy when folk live so far apart


----------



## Boxer123

Very disappointing @tabelmabel im sorry to hear that. One thing I will say about Scotland at least you know what your doing: I am not sure what our great leader has actually changed ?

Go to work but don't message again 
Apparently the virus will only effect you after 10 in pubs 
No mask £200 fine but like others have said this is not enforced. 
You can meet five other people from five other households ?


----------



## tabelmabel

About as clear as mud here too @Boxer123

Grandparents can still look after grandchildren

Tradesmen can still come in the house

11yrs and under can come in.

But we cant be in the same house or car as our daughter.

However i suppose we should be glad we can get away at all.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> About as clear as mud here too @Boxer123
> 
> Grandparents can still look after grandchildren
> 
> Tradesmen can still come in the house
> 
> 11yrs and under can come in.
> 
> But we cant be in the same house or car as our daughter.
> 
> However i suppose we should be glad we can get away at all.


Honestly the boxers would make the rules clearer! Is your daughter on her own do you have support bubbles ?


----------



## tabelmabel

She shares a flat with one other. She lives a hundred miles from us. She is 27 though and left home at 18. So we are quite used to not seeing her for months on end. She always comes home at christmas . . .but if these rules dont lift that will be out.

I can see the logic tbf.

If my daughter is carrying it and then infected me, OH, her brother or sister, we would then bring it back to our home town.

It does make sense. Just a bit annoying that it happens literally 10 days before we go.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> . She always comes home at christmas


 I think I read that the virus takes 24 hours off for Christmas - or maybe that was a dream?


----------



## tabelmabel

A dream surely

I wonder what they will do for christmas. . . .


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Very disappointing @tabelmabel im sorry to hear that. One thing I will say about Scotland at least you know what your doing: I am not sure what our great leader has actually changed ?
> 
> Go to work but don't message again
> Apparently the virus will only effect you after 10 in pubs
> No mask £200 fine but like others have said this is not enforced.
> You can meet five other people from five other households ?





tabelmabel said:


> About as clear as mud here too @Boxer123
> 
> Grandparents can still look after grandchildren
> 
> Tradesmen can still come in the house
> 
> 11yrs and under can come in.
> 
> But we cant be in the same house or car as our daughter.
> 
> However i suppose we should be glad we can get away at all.


Maybe BJ will make things clearer when he speaks at 8pm but I'm not holding my breath, watching him stutter though his speeches he never seems to make any sense.


----------



## tabelmabel

0


Happy Paws2 said:


> Maybe BJ will make things clearer when he speaks at 8pm


I dont have to listen to boris at all. I will just wait for nicola. She is crystal clear.

And quite often janey godley is straight onto her speeches to make it all very crystal clear.

I cant link janey godley here as she swears far too much but, if you dont know her, look her up as she is absolutely hilarious with her nicola impressions.

Even nicola has approved of her direct talk saying that janey is like a mind reader - and able to say the things nicola is thinking but cant say:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Maybe BJ will make things clearer when he speaks at 8pm but I'm not holding my breath, watching him stutter though his speeches he never seems to make any sense.


No I won't hold my breath think I'm going to have a news break because I'm getting so anxious.


----------



## Blackadder

I'll be honest, after listening to his parliament statement at lunch time... I'm a little scared!

Not because of Covid but one thing he said & I quote "We'll give the Police the ability to draw on the military where needed" 

The Military? Why? I don't live in North Korea or China, what do we need the army (not trained in Policing) for?

As for the rest of it, he reminded me of a drowning man frantically grabbing at any passing flotsam... none of it made any rational sense but it might keep him afloat!


----------



## HarlequinCat

To be honest this winter will be bad if it is left as it is now. The infections have rocketed and its not even that cold out yet. Right now I think boris is going to get stick whatever he does. No one is going to be happy

Closing pubs etc at 10 will not do much, and there's so many people flouting the rules no police or army are going to be able to enforce them.

I saw a post from the department of health on Facebook I think, about corona, you should see some of the crazy conspiracy theories some people have. It would be funny if it wasn't so concerning. One person was saying how this is all a conspiracy to make the rich, richer


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Maybe BJ will make things clearer when he speaks at 8pm but I'm not holding my breath, watching him stutter though his speeches he never seems to make any sense.


Nope, nothing of any importance came forth from his mouth again. I'm sure he feels like he's making a Churchillian speech to the people at war with Corvid, but all we see is a man who can't be serious even when his countrymen are dying and* still* has that unelected lockdown breaking Cummins in all the decision makings


----------



## rona

We've got a very local outbreak linked to a pub, probably about 30-40 people so far. Yesterday there were none, so I'm hoping they've stopped it in it's tracks


----------



## Happy Paws2

They were saying that people who were shielding earlier in the year, if they live in a area that has a local lockdown they should shield again, so that's us going not going out for a while.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Nope, nothing of any importance came forth from his mouth again. I'm sure he feels like he's making a Churchillian speech to the people at war with Corvid, but all we see is a man who can't be serious even when his countrymen are dying and* still* has that unelected lockdown breaking Cummins in all the decision makings


I think he was pretty serious. I also think he still isn't well after being ill with the virus.

An excellent line I thought was "Your mild cough could be someone else's death knell".

If only everyone could think that, we might be a bit better off.


----------



## MilleD

Blackadder said:


> I'll be honest, after listening to his parliament statement at lunch time... I'm a little scared!
> 
> Not because of Covid but one thing he said & I quote "We'll give the Police the ability to draw on the military where needed"
> 
> The Military? Why? I don't live in North Korea or China, what do we need the army (not trained in Policing) for?
> 
> As for the rest of it, he reminded me of a drowning man frantically grabbing at any passing flotsam... none of it made any rational sense but it might keep him afloat!


The military thing is more about numbers than martial rule I would have thought.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Nope, nothing of any importance came forth from his mouth again. I'm sure he feels like he's making a Churchillian speech to the people at war with Corvid, but all we see is a man who can't be serious even when his countrymen are dying and* still* has that unelected lockdown breaking* Cummins* in all the decision makings


That's my problem with BJ all his speeches are most likely written by Cummins.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Maybe BJ will make things clearer when he speaks at 8pm but I'm not holding my breath, watching him stutter though his speeches he never seems to make any sense.


You'd have thought he could've had his dinner before his speech
Or
Maybe he too has acquired stress IBS making his stomach rumble like that


----------



## margy

We have a local lockdown here and no households can meet. I'm missing my baby granddaughter terribly and it's only been a week. Yet if I was providing child care while her parents are at work I could see her!


----------



## StormyThai

So it turns out that having flu doesn't stop you catching C-19 at the same time which can double the risk of death - joy!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/22/catching-flu-covid-19-time-almost-doubles-risk-death/

I just want to see my dad  
Apparently our Tesco's staff didn't get the memo that they should be wearing masks now...I'm sorry but with all the options that we have for face coverings now there is no excuse for not covering your face...


----------



## tabelmabel

I've checked this one out and there is no bad language so i think this will be forum suitable.

Some of her others are hysterical but this gives a flavour


----------



## Cleo38

Hahahaha, hilarious @tabelmabel ! I used to like Tracey Ullman doing Nicola Sturgeon, she was so funny & spot on


----------



## tabelmabel

Here is the real nicola giving her opinion of the voice overs. Janey godley voiced over pretty much every daily briefing right through lockdown - she was fantastic at getting the messages out really clearly.


----------



## LinznMilly

Bro started to show symptoms on Monday. Initially he thought it was a head cold, but that doesn't explain the high temperature or loss of taste. He's trying to get a test, but the website is so busy, it's telling him to try again later.


----------



## MilleD

Has anyone been invited to participate in the IPSOS Mori survey that is happening?

They are sending out tests and getting them collected and done all at a certain point in time. I assume it's to gather a snapshot at a point in time to extrapolate.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> So it turns out that having flu doesn't stop you catching C-19 at the same time which can double the risk of death - joy!
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/22/catching-flu-covid-19-time-almost-doubles-risk-death/


This is why they are extending the flu jab reach this year to more people.


----------



## LinznMilly

MilleD said:


> This is why they are extending the flu jab reach this year to more people.


That reminds me. I've had a text from my surgery about the flu jab. Better go and give it the more than casual glance it deserves...


----------



## kittih

MilleD said:


> This is why they are extending the flu jab reach this year to more people.


I went to book my flu jab and the pharmacist mentioned that stocks were low and as I wasn't in the eligible free flu jab category (at least not yet until the government actually extends who is eligible) she would phone me if they needed to postpone it.

It seems there is more take up of flu jabs if stocks are already low in September. I hope they increase supply if Boris does widen who is eligible as otherwise it will affect those in the vulnerable categories who haven't had their vaccination yet.


----------



## MilleD

kittih said:


> I went to book my flu jab and the pharmacist mentioned that stocks were low and as I wasn't in the eligible free flu jab category (at least not yet until the government actually extends who is eligible) she would phone me if they needed to postpone it.
> 
> It seems there is more take up of flu jabs if stocks are already low in September. I hope they increase supply if Boris does widen who is eligible as otherwise it will affect those in the vulnerable categories who haven't had their vaccination yet.


My GP hasn't bothered to call me in for one yet so I've booked one through work. My GP has been pretty poor through all of this.

The theory was that they were going to do the most vulnerable and then extend, but if they can't do the first bit.....


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've canceled our Flu Jabs for tomorrow as we are in a local lockdown and we don't feel safe going out, not that we go out very often as it is.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've canceled our Flu Jabs for tomorrow as we are in a local lockdown and we don't feel safe going out, not that we go out very often as it is.


Must be very worrying.

I went to the pool this morning it's my only regular recreation at the moment. We've had the pool to ourselves, 3 of us. It's only big enough for 3 to use safely, but yesterday for some reason the owners decide that they needed 4 in there, so part way through my swim, another lady came in :Arghh:Arghh

I couldn't do it, she had her head out of the water breathing on me every time she passed. I didn't know if she's got kids at school, been to the pub in the past week of even if she's being careful.
I couldn't do it, I had to get out.  
Not sure what's going to happen going forward, we've offered to pay for four places every time but they haven't agreed yet. I might lose my swimming.I'll be devastated

Stupid thing is, there was no one going in when we left


----------



## Charity

We're going for a flu jab next week and we've been offered a pneumonia jab as we are over 65. In our area, most GP surgeries appear to be doing them in their car parks so you don't even get out of your car. This is the criteria for getting a flu jab by the way

The flu vaccine is given to people who:

are 65 and over (born on or before 31 March 1956)
have certain health conditions
are pregnant
are in a long-stay residential care
receive a carer's allowance, or are the main carer for an older or disabled person who may be at risk if you get sick
live with someone who's at high risk from coronavirus (on the NHS shielded patient list)
frontline health or social care workers


----------



## catz4m8z

LinznMilly said:


> Bro started to show symptoms on Monday. Initially he thought it was a head cold, but that doesn't explain the high temperature or loss of taste. He's trying to get a test, but the website is so busy, it's telling him to try again later.


yup, that loss of taste and/or smell is a pretty big indicator isnt it? I hope he feels better soon.

Feels like things are starting to ramp up at work again, just abit anyways. Def a few more patients being admitted with symptoms.
Kinda why it makes me angry when people just blow it off or worse think it doesnt even exist (I mean....really!!?). Turned out half of us on shift last night had been really ill with covid and also found out an agency nurse I had worked with had sadly passed away with it.
Scary times....stay safe people!


----------



## Cully

LinznMilly said:


> Bro started to show symptoms on Monday. Initially he thought it was a head cold, but that doesn't explain the high temperature or loss of taste. He's trying to get a test, but the website is so busy, it's telling him to try again later.


I hope he manages to get tested soon, and not have to travel too far. It must be so worrying for you. Hopefully it's just a cold, or if covid, then a very mild case. I think most of us would prefer to just get it mildly so we can just get on with our lives, but it's too risky when the stakes are so high.
Keep safe, and stay away from idiots!


----------



## LinznMilly

catz4m8z said:


> yup, that loss of taste and/or smell is a pretty big indicator isnt it? I hope he feels better soon.


Thank you. Yeah, you don't lose taste with a head cold.



Cully said:


> I hope he manages to get tested soon, and not have to travel too far. It must be so worrying for you. Hopefully it's just a cold, or if covid, then a very mild case. I think most of us would prefer to just get it mildly so we can just get on with our lives, but it's too risky when the stakes are so high.
> Keep safe, and stay away from idiots!


Thank you. It is. He's the only one who truly "gets" me.


----------



## SusieRainbow

LinznMilly said:


> Thank you. Yeah, you don't lose taste with a head cold.
> 
> Thank you. It is. He's the only one who truly "gets" me.


I hope he's OK Linz, everything crossed.xx


----------



## JoanneF

Sorry to hear this Linz, I hope it's not Corona.


----------



## LinznMilly

SusieRainbow said:


> I hope he's OK Linz, everything crossed.xx





JoanneF said:


> Sorry to hear this Linz, I hope it's not Corona.


Thank you. Me too.


----------



## Beth78

I've just downloaded the NHS covid 19 app and it says my area is medium risk.

Fingers crossed I get no alerts.


----------



## Calvine

Charity said:


> We're going for a flu jab next week and we've been offered a pneumonia jab as we are over 65. In our area, most GP surgeries appear to be doing them in their car parks so you don't even get out of your car. This is the criteria for getting a flu jab by the way
> 
> The flu vaccine is given to people who:
> 
> are 65 and over (born on or before 31 March 1956)
> have certain health conditions
> are pregnant
> are in a long-stay residential care
> receive a carer's allowance, or are the main carer for an older or disabled person who may be at risk if you get sick
> live with someone who's at high risk from coronavirus (on the NHS shielded patient list)
> frontline health or social care workers


 Just to say: my neighbour got an ''invitation'' for a flu jab from her GP. The message said that she should phone the surgery ASAP as there was a shortage of the vaccine and if she delayed booking it, they may well have run out. Isn't that great?


----------



## Happy Paws2

According to the news this morning if you don't have a up to date phone you can't get the alert away, so if you can't afford to up grade you can't get the apt.

The hold thing which ever way you look at it is a mess, they can't even track who receiving the alerts so they are trusting people to do the right thing and lets face it not everyone will.


----------



## Bisbow

OH and I are due for our jabs on 3rd Oct, don't know the procedure yet and hoping they don't run out before then


----------



## Charity

I would assume if you've already booked, you'll be OK but people need to be quick looking at the News today.


----------



## Bisbow

Charity said:


> I would assume if you've already booked, you'll be OK but people need to be quick looking at the News today.


I hope you are right but nothing is certain these days is it
Things seem o change by the minute


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> According to the news this morning if you don't have a up to date phone you can't get the alert away, so if you can't afford to up grade you can't get the apt.
> 
> The hold thing which ever way you look at it is a mess, they can't even track who receiving the alerts so they are trusting people to do the right thing and lets face it not everyone will.


If they knew it would make no difference, who would police it?


----------



## MilleD

Beth78 said:


> I've just downloaded the NHS covid 19 app and it says my area is medium risk.
> 
> Fingers crossed I get no alerts.


Mine is medium too. Yet I thought my area was low...


----------



## MilleD

I'm pretty p!ssed off.

There has been an outbreak at one of the local high schools and I've found out that my brother in law's freind's daughter has tested positive. Someone that my brother in law shared a van journey with on Sunday, then that sister went and babysat my other sister's kids on Tuesday.

I've just been not very nice on a family what's app group we have.


----------



## Cully

It said on BBC news this morning that phones with an os pre 2015 are the ones most likely to not work with the app.


----------



## LinznMilly

Phone call from SIL

Bro's much worse and struggling with his chest now.  :Nailbiting They've all been advised to self-isolate. Still trying to get a test, but he's not strong enough to go to the walk in.

Not sure where I stand, because while I haven't been in contact with bro, I _have_ been in contact with SIL, on the Sunday before we went into local lockdown (so a week gone Sunday). Bro went round to mum's just before lockdown was enforced, and I've been in contact with mum since then because I'm her carer. (I don't mean physical contact - just socialising distantly).


----------



## SusieRainbow

Oh dear Linz, that's very scary. It sounds as though you should be self isolating but very difficult if you're caring for your mum.
My thoughts are with you all.


----------



## Siskin

Oh crumbs what a huge worry for you @LinznMilly, I hope your brother doesn't get too ill and recovers well.


----------



## rona

It's all such a mess. Your story Linz, just goes to show how easy it is to spread. OH's aunt died early on with it after having quite a lot of contact with direct family, and no one else got it. Fingers crossed that it is contained in your family

Hoping your brother gets through this ok


----------



## LinznMilly

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh dear Linz, that's very scary. It sounds as though you should be self isolating but very difficult if you're caring for your mum.
> My thoughts are with you all.


My head's all over the place. My mum and I are both classed as especially vulnerable.



MilleD said:


> I'm pretty p!ssed off.
> 
> There has been an outbreak at one of the local high schools and I've found out that my brother in law's freind's daughter has tested positive. Someone that my brother in law shared a van journey with on Sunday, then that sister went and babysat my other sister's kids on Tuesday.
> 
> I've just been not very nice on a family what's app group we have.


My nephew's school reported that someone had tested positive. They still expected the kids to go in.  That was last week, I think. Now this.



Siskin said:


> Oh crumbs what a huge worry for you @LinznMilly, I hope your brother doesn't get too ill and recovers well.


Thank you.



rona said:


> It's all such a mess. Your story Linz, just goes to show how easy it is to spread. OH's aunt died early on with it after having quite a lot of contact with direct family, and no one else got it. Fingers crossed that it is contained in your family
> 
> Hoping your brother gets through this ok


Thanks. You're right there! It is such a mess. I'm sorry to hear about your OH's aunt. Glad no one else got it. Hopefully the same will be true of us, but if other infections are anything to go by, it'll rip through all of us now. This is one case where I hope I'm just being neurotic.

octor


----------



## ForestWomble

My thoughts are with you and your family @LinznMilly. Wishing a good recovery for your bro.


----------



## Happy Paws2

LinznMilly said:


> Phone call from SIL
> 
> Bro's much worse and struggling with his chest now.  :Nailbiting They've all been advised to self-isolate. Still trying to get a test, but he's not strong enough to go to the walk in.
> 
> Not sure where I stand, because while I haven't been in contact with bro, I _have_ been in contact with SIL, on the Sunday before we went into local lockdown (so a week gone Sunday). Bro went round to mum's just before lockdown was enforced, and I've been in contact with mum since then because I'm her carer. (I don't mean physical contact - just socialising distantly).


If his struggling to breath maybe worth having word with one rather than wait hopefully he'll be OK.

Reading some other posts I hope everyone and their families are OK this is a worrying time.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> If his struggling to breath maybe worth having word with one rather than wait hopefully he'll be OK.


@LinznMilly , I agree, if he's having breathing problems then he needs attention now before it gets worse. What a nightmare for you all. My thoughts are with you, and hoping for the best.


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh that's not good @LinznMilly - i hope your brother manages to pull through it ok and that you, your mum and sil dont come down with it. Nothing scarier than not being able to breathe. I think i heard somewhere if you cant speak a sentence without gasping and needing to break to breathe mid sentence, you need an ambulance. Cant remember where i heard that or if that is a correct indicator or not but worth keeping in mind maybe.

Take care xx


----------



## LinznMilly

Happy Paws2 said:


> If his struggling to breath maybe worth having word with one rather than wait hopefully he'll be OK.
> 
> Reading some other posts I hope everyone and their families are OK this is a worrying time.





Cully said:


> @LinznMilly , I agree, if he's having breathing problems then he needs attention now before it gets worse. What a nightmare for you all. My thoughts are with you, and hoping for the best.


Thank you. I know he was on the phone to 111 on Tuesday, initially told to self isolate for 1 week and to phone back if he got worse. SIL has been on the phone to the doctor this morning and has the number on speed dial.


----------



## HarlequinCat

LinznMilly said:


> Phone call from SIL
> 
> Bro's much worse and struggling with his chest now.  :Nailbiting They've all been advised to self-isolate. Still trying to get a test, but he's not strong enough to go to the walk in.
> 
> Not sure where I stand, because while I haven't been in contact with bro, I _have_ been in contact with SIL, on the Sunday before we went into local lockdown (so a week gone Sunday). Bro went round to mum's just before lockdown was enforced, and I've been in contact with mum since then because I'm her carer. (I don't mean physical contact - just socialising distantly).


Thats awful, hope he starts feeling better soon!
I think in terms of what to do is there anywhere you can ring for advice? Would nhs 111 give advice?


----------



## LinznMilly

HarlequinCat said:


> Thats awful, hope he starts feeling better soon!
> I think in terms of what to do is there anywhere you can ring for advice? Would nhs 111 give advice?


I'm not sure, but just heard from SIL. Bro and mum have been tested. Results tomorrow.


----------



## Happy Paws2

LinznMilly said:


> I'm not sure, but just heard from SIL. Bro and mum have been tested. Results tomorrow.


Fingers crossed.


----------



## LinznMilly

Happy Paws2 said:


> Fingers crossed.


I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Hope it’s good news


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Such worrying times @LinznMilly  I hope he recovers quickly, from whatever it is.


----------



## LinznMilly

Both tests are negative.


----------



## SusieRainbow

LinznMilly said:


> Both tests are negative.


Oh thank God Linz, what a relief !


----------



## Siskin

Phew what a relief all round. So pleased for you all. Your brother can go and have his man flu in peace:Smuggrin


----------



## Arny

Excellent news


----------



## LinznMilly

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh thank God Linz, what a relief !





Siskin said:


> Phew what a relief all round. So pleased for you all. Your brother can go and have his man flu in peace:Smuggrin





Arny said:


> Excellent news


Thank you all. 

Apparently bro's feeling a bit better today and the cough has gone but his chest is still tight, so definitely sounds like a chest infection.


----------



## ForestWomble

LinznMilly said:


> Both tests are negative.


Fantastic news 



LinznMilly said:


> Thank you all.
> 
> Apparently bro's feeling a bit better today and the cough has gone but his chest is still tight, so definitely sounds like a chest infection.


Sorry to hear he has a chest infection, but very pleased to hear that is 'all' it is, hope he feels better soon.


----------



## Cully

LinznMilly said:


> Both tests are negative.


Yay, excellent news. What a relief for you all. Hope the chest trouble soon clears up.


----------



## tabelmabel

Aw that's brilliant news @LinznMilly - the symptoms sounded so like it too; just shows it isnt that easy to tell what virus is what without a test.

Is anyone else caught up in this student at university thing? I couldnt believe it when my son text me last night to say some students are about to pack in their accomodation (which they are contracted to pay for all year) because they cant go home for christmas.

My son had better not get any thoughts like that in his head! I reminded him christmas is going to be rubbish this year anyway with no one allowed in anyone else's house in scotland. At that age (18) i would have much rather been holed up with folk my own age over christmas than parents and sibs. I cant believe they are thinking of running home at the first hurdle. Im hoping my son is made of stronger stuff . . . they say there will be a mental health crisis if the students dont get home for Christmas

Really?

I do feel sorry for the students as they arent getting a normal uni experience at all but i would have thought a healthy resilience will see them through - especially if they stick together and go through as a shared experience.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> Is anyone else caught up in this student at university thing? I couldnt believe it when my son text me last night to say some students are about to pack in their accomodation (which they are contracted to pay for all year) because they cant go home for christmas.
> 
> My son had better not get any thoughts like that in his head! I reminded him christmas is going to be rubbish this year anyway with no one allowed in anyone else's house in scotland. At that age (18) i would have much rather been holed up with folk my own age over christmas than parents and sibs. I cant believe they are thinking of running home at the first hurdle. Im hoping my son is made of stronger stuff . . . they say there will be a mental health crisis if the students dont get home for Christmas
> 
> Really?
> 
> I do feel sorry for the students as they arent getting a normal uni experience at all but i would have thought a healthy resilience will see them through - especially if they stick together and go through as a shared experience.


I would have gone home if I were them, in fact I wouldn't have turned up in the first place.
Paying 9 grand a year plus accommodation to be trapped in a dorm full of strangers with little to no face to face lectures, no thank you.
I don't envy their situation one bit.


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes, that is a good point @Arny for English students who have to pay tuition fees. I think most of the students in with my son are Scottish so they wont have tuition fees - just the accomodation which they will still have to pay if they move out now.

And i think they were led to believe there would be more face to face lectures than there actually are. However, moving out of home always going to be an important and valuable part of growing up and moving on so, i think once they have made that decision to go, they need to tough it out a little bit - obviously if they really cant hack it then it is mature to realise a mistake has been made and have a re think. This seems to be in response to 'i have to see my family at christmas' though (rather than course/accomodation unhappiness) so i think it is a bit short sighted.


----------



## Magyarmum

My granddaughter spent four months all on her own in a rented room miles from home, finishing the second year of her course online. I never once heard her complain! 

And she certainly hasn't suffered any mental health problems!


----------



## Siskin

I didn’t go to Uni, it wasn’t the done thing unless you went to a grammar school or had lots of encouragement from parents and teachers. To be quite honest I would have much rather spent Christmas with the other students at uni then go to a boring Christmas at home.
Daughter did go to uni and only turned up once for Christmas as she found a nice boyfriend and preferred to spend holiday times with him, I didn’t mind as it’s her life to live how she wants and I wasn’t going to lay down any laws about coming home.


----------



## tabelmabel

Thank goodness for you @Magyarmum - my eldest two are super-resilient but this youngest son of mine is probably the one im most bonded to and i have definitely been softer on him. Done him no favours! He is pretty good independence wise but he is still very attached to his family and home in a way my older kids werent. Im pretty sure he will stick things out but he will need to be independent in his own mind and not follow the crowd.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> running home at the first hurdle.


 I know, it's odd; I couldn't wait to get away from home!!


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> a dorm full of strangers


 When my son was at uni, it was student houses, three or four to a house (unless you particularly wanted to stay in a hall of residence). Not palaces by any means, but the friends he made there he has stayed friends with. It's much easier now, of course to stay in touch with email and mobile (and FB if you must). I lost touch with most of my friends at university, they moved house, I moved house, change of addresses and phone numbers made it difficult to maintain contact really.


----------



## tabelmabel

Really good to hear your comment too @Siskin

I had anything but a normal background so sometimes i think i am a bit tough compared to modern day parents (and i have softened!) I did go to uni luckily in the days grants were available in the 80s. I didnt have parents about by the time i went to uni but i knew it was the key to me getting out of a bad situation. So i literally left home with a suitcase and totally made my own way by bus and train. Went back for the dog and then never again.

I was really resilient by the time i was 18, 19. I just felt totally grown up and completely capable.

Because i dont come from a close family and have always valued friends more than family, I probably cant properly understand this desire to dash home all the time


----------



## tabelmabel

Calvine said:


> I know, it's odd; I couldn't wait to get away from home!!


Oh thank goodness! I am 'normal' after all

I


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> Because i dont come from a close family and have always valued friends more than family


That's the thing, @tabelmabel: you pick your friends. But I know a young woman (27??) who always strikes me as confident, independent, smart etc . . . offered a great job in Australia (has a good job here too), won't take it as she will miss family too much.


----------



## Arny

Magyarmum said:


> My granddaughter spent four months all on her own in a rented room miles from home, finishing the second year of her course online. I never once heard her complain!


I would have rathered be on my own. As it was I was home first year so the last two years I was living with people I already knew.
Oh and no surprise I already suffered mental health issues from being bullied at school.
I deferred uni for a year in the first place.


Calvine said:


> When my son was at uni, it was student houses, three or four to a house (unless you particularly wanted to stay in a hall of residence). Not palaces by any means, but the friends he made there he has stayed friends with. It's much easier now, of course to stay in touch with email and mobile (and FB if you must). I lost touch with most of my friends at university, they moved house, I moved house, change of addresses and phone numbers made it difficult to maintain contact really.


My brother and sister were in dorms of 10 people sharing kitchens and living spaces.
My first year was at a college connected to the university and I was deemed to live too close (1 and a half hour bus ride) so lived at home.
Second and third year I was in a house with 6 others whom I met first year.
Half of us have lost touch with each other yet my parents regularly speak to and see those they shared a house with.

I actually like my family so have never been desperate to leave. Everyone's different, I don't see it as weak to want to go back to what you know.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Great to hear @LinznMilly!


----------



## tabelmabel

Arny said:


> I don't see it as weak to want to go back to what you know.


I definitely dont see it as weak to be in a close family. It must be lovely to come from a family that you actually like as well as love. Id certainly have any of mine back if they fell on tough times that needed parental support.

But, equally, i would be concerned if they didnt have that drive to find their own way in the world, to move on and become independent of us. That is a natural step isnt it - we all really want to see our 'kids' be fully capable and functioning individuals before we depart this world.

We do have a disabled adult son too who will live with us for a long time yet but we are hopeful that he will be settled into supported accomodation in our lifetimes.

So - yes part of being an adult is recognising you need help and support and knowing who to turn to in times of need - and if that is your parents, that is wonderful and not weakness at all. We all need someone to turn to at various crises in life. It is just my personal opinion that having to spend christmas away from family during a pandemic will not cause most well adjusted teens and young adults to crumble. Christmas is a bit over rated anyway bah humbug


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> I definitely dont see it as weak to be in a close family. It must be lovely to come from a family that you actually like as well as love. Id certainly have any of mine back if they fell on tough times that needed parental support.
> 
> But, equally, i would be concerned if they didnt have that drive to find their own way in the world, to move on and become independent of us. That is a natural step isnt it - we all really want to see our 'kids' be fully capable and functioning individuals before we depart this world.
> 
> We do have a disabled adult son too who will live with us for a long time yet but we are hopeful that he will be settled into supported accomodation in our lifetimes.
> 
> So - yes part of being an adult is recognising you need help and support and knowing who to turn to in times of need - and if that is your parents, that is wonderful and not weakness at all. We all need someone to turn to at various crises in life. It is just my personal opinion that having to spend christmas away from family during a pandemic will not cause most well adjusted teens and young adults to crumble. Christmas is a bit over rated anyway bah humbug


I like what you're saying here. Our daughter has always been independent but knows she can come home if she wants. She's now 41 in a really good relationship, they were going to have a civil partnership in May but it had to be cancelled due to you know what. I can't imagine her ever coming home again, but you never know. 
Son on the other hand, had to be more or less moved out as he liked me cooking and cleaning for him. I wasn't going to let him loose in my kitchen nor put up with his habit of only putting a few items in the washing machine and calling it a full wash. Once he was out into the big wide world I think he really relished his independence and although did come home for a few months some years ago, now has his own home with his girlfriend and likes doing all sorts to make it theirs.
They are all different, but the key difference with my children is that they come because they want to come home and either stay or visit, whereas I felt I had to go and visit or else my mother would make me feel incredibly guilty because I didn't phone that week (she never phoned me)


----------



## Mum2Heidi

LinznMilly said:


> Both tests are negative.


Brilliant news!!
Hope your brother gets well soon


----------



## LinznMilly

ForestWomble said:


> Fantastic news
> 
> Sorry to hear he has a chest infection, but very pleased to hear that is 'all' it is, hope he feels better soon.





Cully said:


> Yay, excellent news. What a relief for you all. Hope the chest trouble soon clears up.





tabelmabel said:


> Aw that's brilliant news @LinznMilly - the symptoms sounded so like it too; just shows it isnt that easy to tell what virus is what without a test





HarlequinCat said:


> Great to hear @LinznMilly!





Mum2Heidi said:


> Brilliant news!!
> Hope your brother gets well soon


Thank you everyone. . I appreciate everyone's kind words and support.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> Everyone's different,


 Absolutely. I know someone who took her sister with her when she went on honeymoon . . . she took her new husband too.


----------



## Boxer123

It must be nice to have a close family I on the other hand am secretly thinking Christmas with boxers doesn’t sound to bad.


----------



## tabelmabel

Calvine said:


> Absolutely. I know someone who took her sister with her when she went on honeymoon . . . she took her new husband too.


No way!!! Something not right there:Stop

I was watching one of those one born programmes and was surprised to see one woman whose labour had hit a problem call for her MUM. Her poor partner was ousted out of the delivery room and switched for mum

He said he had no problem with it as they were a close family but that must have hurt


----------



## ForestWomble

tabelmabel said:


> No way!!! Something not right there:Stop
> 
> I was watching one of those one born programmes and was surprised to see one woman whose labour had hit a problem call for her MUM. Her poor partner was ousted out of the delivery room and switched for mum
> 
> He said he had no problem with it as they were a close family but that must have hurt


Poor man


----------



## Happy Paws2

Brilliant news, hope what ever he has he recovers quickly.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH and I have had a discussion that we will not be going out unless we really, really have to, talking to my neighbour this afternoon at a distance she says anything we have forgotten from our on-line shopping she'll get it for us. So that's it for now staying at home unless we might go out for some fresh air, but not where there will be many people around.


----------



## JoanneF

Just caught up on this @LinznMilly , I'm so glad your brother tested negative. What a relief.


----------



## margy

LinznMilly said:


> Both tests are negative.


Glad to hear that, such a relief for you. There are a lot of viruses around at the moment too.


----------



## Magyarmum

Trafalgar Square today!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...olice-violence-rally-coronavirus-b620702.html

*London protest: Police warn against violence as anti-lockdown demonstrators gather in capital*

*







*


----------



## Dave S

Absolute stupidity and totally irresponsible of the organisers and marchers.


----------



## tabelmabel

Flippin' heck. This is fast track to another national lockdown days before my holiday:Rage


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Trafalgar Square today!
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...olice-violence-rally-coronavirus-b620702.html
> 
> *London protest: Police warn against violence as anti-lockdown demonstrators gather in capital*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Wow! Not a mask in sight!

Meanwhile, we've been back in school 3 weeks now and no issues. Long may it continue!


----------



## ForestWomble

The words running through my head about the protesters are not fit for typing. 

Stupid idiots is an understatement.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

tabelmabel said:


> No way!!! Something not right there:Stop
> 
> I was watching one of those one born programmes and was surprised to see one woman whose labour had hit a problem call for her MUM. Her poor partner was ousted out of the delivery room and switched for mum
> 
> He said he had no problem with it as they were a close family but that must have hurt


Yep. I've seen that several times in my baby catching years. It generally is something I discuss with mums antenatally, as if they feel like that may be the case for them, I try to get them to broach the topic with their partner beforehand. Same as NOK status - if a woman has her mum as her NOK not her boyfriend, I try to get the woman to talk to her boyfriend about it first, so if there is that kind of situation when NOK permission is needed for something, it's not a shock.

I'm bloody well fed up of it all. If I get shouted at/complained about/threatened one more time, I'm tempted to just walk out!


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yep. I've seen that several times in my baby catching years. It generally is something I discuss with mums antenatally, as if they feel like that may be the case for them, I try to get them to broach the topic with their partner beforehand. Same as NOK status - if a woman has her mum as her NOK not her boyfriend, I try to get the woman to talk to her boyfriend about it first, so if there is that kind of situation when NOK permission is needed for something, it's not a shock.
> 
> *I'm bloody well fed up of it all. If I get shouted at/complained about/threatened one more time, I'm tempted to just walk out*!


You would be perfectly within your rights to do so I believe.
Sorry you have to put up with that kind of abuse from people you are helping, with a mum like that I'm sorry for the child(ren) too.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thank you. It’s very hard for everyone - those having babies obviously but for us too. I feel so sad for mums and dads to be  

It’s often actually the partners who have been doing the shouting/complaining/threatening. We had to call security on one man who was so disgusting to me - and all I could think about was “what about his poor wife and baby?”. Hideous. 

Luckily I’m pretty tough - but my thick skin is deffo getting thinner.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> Absolute stupidity and totally irresponsible of the organisers and marchers.


I just don't understand how people can be so stupid, they really will have something to moan about if we have to go into complete lockdown again and who's fault will it be.:Banghead


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I just don't understand how people can be so stupid, they really will have something to moan about if we have to go into complete lockdown again and who's fault will it be.:Banghead


The only way some people will learn is when they're lying in hospital with a tube down their throat, fighting for their life


----------



## Jackie C

I've worked on ICU as a nurse for 16 years and been a nurse for 26 years (qualified for 20). March to May was hell. 12.5hrs with full PPE, tight FFP3 masks, plus the surgical masks (due to the filter on some of the tight masks), visor, full gowns, gloves. At the beginning, we were seldom given breaks as it was so bad, and they were worried about the supply of PPE. We were looking after 2 or 3 severely sick patients each at a time, sometimes, when we normally have one. Every day, I went home feeling ill, dehydrated and exhausted. Many of us frequently displayed signs and symptoms of acute renal failure. My days off were spent "hungover".

The mental and physical health of my ICU nurse colleagues has suffered greatly, some are still suffering PTSD. Some of the nurses I work with are newly qualified, some are less than 25 years old and it's taken its toll on them. A nurse I knew took an overdose. I have read about many, many others who have suffered so bad they've been sectioned. Luckily, we have a psychologist
for out unit, and many, including myself, have used this service. Whilst I struggled, I managed to cope (just), but wouldn't have it had gone on much longer. In 26 years of nursing, I have never known anything even close to it.
That BBC documentary on the BBC? Yes, it was like that, but with far far less management hovering around for the TV cameras.

We are now getting round 2. We are more organised and prepared for it, we have learned from previous mistakes and what we could have done better, but we are starting to fill up, again. But are we mentally? Who knows? The last two days have been horrendous, with a lack of support from management, some of whom don't know their arse from their elbow. I understand it is hard for them, though. Thankfully, I am now off for three days, but I know it's going to be worse when I go back on Tuesday. I am prepared, I know what is coming, there is less fear of the unknown. I know breaks will be better as the PPE supply is better. We have more staff - sort of - in that we have trained new members of staff, but they are very very junior. We are still short staffed, however. It takes years to become an ICU nurse.

I don't want discounts in shops (I am better off than many as I have a job), I don't want claps. I want people to never, ever, vote Tory and WEAR A MASK. Stay safe.


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> The only way some people will learn is when they're lying in hospital with a tube down their throat, fighting for their life


Unfortunately (don't know if that's the right sentiment I mean to express) for the majority of the people behaving irresponsibly, this won't happen. And now with so many people who have been only mildly sick and recovered easily it's even easier for the general public to get complacent.
In our small community pretty much everyone knows several someone's who've been diagnosed, had mild symptoms, or tested positive with no symptoms at all. And lots of people having been exposed and never getting sick. It just reinforces the idea that this isn't that big of a deal and people are overreacting.


----------



## kimthecat

Went for an evening walk past the local takeaways which were busy as its a Saturday and no one entering them wore a mask , only one person serving was wearing a mask . This was out of four takeaways  No wonder its spreading in our area,


----------



## Mrs Funkin

@Jackie C thank you for your post - I am in awe of how you are all getting through it. It makes me so mad to see people not caring/not following the rules. It's why I get so mad at my work, when people just will not follow trust policy and have no concept of the fact that we are trying to protect an entire vulnerable population.

Keep strong, Jackie. You're incredible.


----------



## Boxer123

Jackie C said:


> I've worked on ICU as a nurse for 16 years and been a nurse for 26 years (qualified for 20). March to May was hell. 12.5hrs with full PPE, tight FFP3 masks, plus the surgical masks (due to the filter on some of the tight masks), visor, full gowns, gloves. At the beginning, we were seldom given breaks as it was so bad, and they were worried about the supply of PPE. We were looking after 2 or 3 severely sick patients each at a time, sometimes, when we normally have one. Every day, I went home feeling ill, dehydrated and exhausted. Many of us frequently displayed signs and symptoms of acute renal failure. My days off were spent "hungover".
> 
> The mental and physical health of my ICU nurse colleagues has suffered greatly, some are still suffering PTSD. Some of the nurses I work with are newly qualified, some are less than 25 years old and it's taken its toll on them. A nurse I knew took an overdose. I have read about many, many others who have suffered so bad they've been sectioned. Luckily, we have a psychologist
> for out unit, and many, including myself, have used this service. Whilst I struggled, I managed to cope (just), but wouldn't have it had gone on much longer. In 26 years of nursing, I have never known anything even close to it.
> That BBC documentary on the BBC? Yes, it was like that, but with far far less management hovering around for the TV cameras.
> 
> We are now getting round 2. We are more organised and prepared for it, we have learned from previous mistakes and what we could have done better, but we are starting to fill up, again. But are we mentally? Who knows? The last two days have been horrendous, with a lack of support from management, some of whom don't know their arse from their elbow. I understand it is hard for them, though. Thankfully, I am now off for three days, but I know it's going to be worse when I go back on Tuesday. I am prepared, I know what is coming, there is less fear of the unknown. I know breaks will be better as the PPE supply is better. We have more staff - sort of - in that we have trained new members of staff, but they are very very junior. We are still short staffed, however. It takes years to become an ICU nurse.
> 
> I don't want discounts in shops (I am better off than many as I have a job), I don't want claps. I want people to never, ever, vote Tory and WEAR A MASK. Stay safe.


Very well said I wish people could see the reality in hospitals.


----------



## Jobeth

I agree that there are mixed messages. Government guidance means that you can still go into a primary school without a mask.


----------



## tabelmabel

Magyarmum said:


> The only way some people will learn is when they're lying in hospital with a tube down their throat, fighting for their life


Too true. Like this fella
Daily Mail: British tourist, 29, who thought Covid was 'b*****t' posts video as he struggles to breathe.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Covid-b-t-posts-video-struggles-breathe.html


----------



## SbanR

tabelmabel said:


> Too true. Like this fella
> Daily Mail: British tourist, 29, who thought Covid was 'b*****t' posts video as he struggles to breathe.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Covid-b-t-posts-video-struggles-breathe.html


There have been similar warnings from other stricken young adults, and they've fallen on deaf ears. Doubt if this latest warning will have more success.


----------



## tabelmabel

You're right @SbanR - young people always think they are invincible. It was a documentary on TV though that really had an impact on me (bit older!)

I have always been good at sticking to the rules as im a rule bound kind of person but, initially, i had no worries at all about catching covid. In fact i was thinking 'bring it on' i will get over it myself at home and that will be me over and done with it.

And then i saw the documentary showing people gasping for breath - and they werent even bad enough to go to hospital!

Having had a couple of asthma attacks and a bad chest infection last winter which left me struggling to breathe, i know how terrifying it is not being able to get air into the lungs.

So the more footage they put out like this, the better. It wont impact the under 30s - but folk do tend to get an insight into the fragility of life into the 3rd decade i think . .


----------



## Jesthar

Jackie C said:


> I've worked on ICU as a nurse for 16 years and been a nurse for 26 years (qualified for 20). March to May was hell. 12.5hrs with full PPE, tight FFP3 masks, plus the surgical masks (due to the filter on some of the tight masks), visor, full gowns, gloves. At the beginning, we were seldom given breaks as it was so bad, and they were worried about the supply of PPE. We were looking after 2 or 3 severely sick patients each at a time, sometimes, when we normally have one. Every day, I went home feeling ill, dehydrated and exhausted. Many of us frequently displayed signs and symptoms of acute renal failure. My days off were spent "hungover".
> 
> The mental and physical health of my ICU nurse colleagues has suffered greatly, some are still suffering PTSD. Some of the nurses I work with are newly qualified, some are less than 25 years old and it's taken its toll on them. A nurse I knew took an overdose. I have read about many, many others who have suffered so bad they've been sectioned. Luckily, we have a psychologist
> for out unit, and many, including myself, have used this service. Whilst I struggled, I managed to cope (just), but wouldn't have it had gone on much longer. In 26 years of nursing, I have never known anything even close to it.
> That BBC documentary on the BBC? Yes, it was like that, but with far far less management hovering around for the TV cameras.
> 
> We are now getting round 2. We are more organised and prepared for it, we have learned from previous mistakes and what we could have done better, but we are starting to fill up, again. But are we mentally? Who knows? The last two days have been horrendous, with a lack of support from management, some of whom don't know their arse from their elbow. I understand it is hard for them, though. Thankfully, I am now off for three days, but I know it's going to be worse when I go back on Tuesday. I am prepared, I know what is coming, there is less fear of the unknown. I know breaks will be better as the PPE supply is better. We have more staff - sort of - in that we have trained new members of staff, but they are very very junior. We are still short staffed, however. It takes years to become an ICU nurse.
> 
> I don't want discounts in shops (I am better off than many as I have a job), I don't want claps. I want people to never, ever, vote Tory and WEAR A MASK. Stay safe.


*hugs* Wow - that hit right home (two doctors in my family). Wish I could plaster THAT all over FB to counter the endless whinging from the anti-mask brigade...


----------



## Dobby65

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yep. I've seen that several times in my baby catching years. It generally is something I discuss with mums antenatally, as if they feel like that may be the case for them, I try to get them to broach the topic with their partner beforehand. Same as NOK status - if a woman has her mum as her NOK not her boyfriend, I try to get the woman to talk to her boyfriend about it first, so if there is that kind of situation when NOK permission is needed for something, it's not a shock.
> 
> I'm bloody well fed up of it all. If I get shouted at/complained about/threatened one more time, I'm tempted to just walk out!


Mrs F, every time I read this I fizz with anger on your behalf. Is this "abuse" related to Covid, or just in general? When I had my babies the midwives were my Angels - I can't imagine any scenario whereby I'd have wanted to criticise them, let alone anything worse. ☹


----------



## tabelmabel

Can you believe it - just listening to radio scotland now reporting on what's in the papers. Apparently one paper has a story about a mass exodus from university halls - hundreds of 'anxious parents' have gone to universities to 'rescue' their kids this weekend.

Scottish students at uni were specifically instructed to remain in their halls this weekend (only for this one weekend) as scotland's cases are accelerating.

But, because there is talk of students not getting home for christmas (as i mentioned earlier in the thread) students are 'escaping' now.

On the very weekend they have been asked to stay put. I wonder if it is the students who are so desperate to get home - or parents who cant let their kids go?

Maybe a bit of both?

Happily my son sounds settled and not doing too badly at all just now.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Can you believe it - just listening to radio scotland now reporting on what's in the papers. Apparently one paper has a story about a mass exodus from university halls - hundreds of 'anxious parents' have gone to universities to 'rescue' their kids this weekend.
> 
> Scottish students at uni were specifically instructed to remain in their halls this weekend (only for this one weekend) as scotland's cases are accelerating.
> 
> But, because there is talk of students not getting home for christmas (as i mentioned earlier in the thread) students are 'escaping' now.
> 
> On the very weekend they have been asked to stay put. I wonder if it is the students who are so desperate to get home - or parents who cant let their kids go?
> 
> Maybe a bit of both?
> 
> Happily my son sounds settled and not doing too badly at all just now.


It is strange I missed a few Christmas at home when I was younger spent it with friends or boyfriends. I know other people who travelled so again missed Christmas. Never thought much of it.


----------



## tabelmabel

I know @Boxer123 - im beginning to think this is the good old media stirring it all up. I just cant believe students are that desperate to get home for christmas.

Mass lock in in the halls would have been my idea of brilliant fun at that age!

There was a dad pictured on our tv news last night taking food parcels to his student daughter as she is self isolating and apparently a lot of students have no food to sustain them through self isolation.

I mean surely to any self respecting young person that is just embarrassing to the point of mortification?! Your dad actually turning up with food at uni??!!

I think all my kids would have been mortified had i stood at the primary school gates waving some forgotton sandwiches!!

I can well imagine my daughter's face if i turned up at her school! (She is high school now)

Im sure these unis with students self isolating dont need parents turning up. They will get food parcels organised before anyone actually starves


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> I have always been good at sticking to the rules as im a rule bound kind of person but, initially, i had no worries at all about catching covid. In fact i was thinking 'bring it on' i will get over it myself at home and that will be me over and done with it.
> 
> And then i saw the documentary showing people gasping for breath - and they werent even bad enough to go to hospital!
> 
> Having had a couple of asthma attacks and a bad chest infection last winter which left me struggling to breathe, i know how terrifying it is not being able to get air into the lungs.


Thats what really terrified me. It wasnt the temperature, lethargy, feeling crap, etc as that was just kinda like having a ramped up cold TBH. It was the breathlessness....being unable to walk 10ft to the toilet without struggling and gasping for breath (Ive never had any breathing problems before....heck, Ive never been sicker then a bad cold!).
and being alone for all of it, knowing nobody was 'allowed' to help you? Single worst experience of my life. I just hope that younger people take this seriously as it does sometimes feels that its just the older generations who are being sensible.


----------



## Jackie C

Mrs Funkin said:


> @Jackie C thank you for your post - I am in awe of how you are all getting through it. It makes me so mad to see people not caring/not following the rules. It's why I get so mad at my work, when people just will not follow trust policy and have no concept of the fact that we are trying to protect an entire vulnerable population.
> 
> Keep strong, Jackie. You're incredible.


@Jesthar @Boxer123

Thanks.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Unfortunately (don't know if that's the right sentiment I mean to express) for the majority of the people behaving irresponsibly, this won't happen. And now with so many people who have been only mildly sick and recovered easily it's even easier for the general public to get complacent.
> In our small community pretty much everyone knows several someone's who've been diagnosed, had mild symptoms, or tested positive with no symptoms at all. And lots of people having been exposed and never getting sick. It just reinforces the idea that this isn't that big of a deal and people are overreacting.


Maybe not.

But if like me you know of someone who's been in hospital for the past 10 weeks 6 of which have been spent, not on a ventilator but intubated. And you know every day that goes by, the chances of him living diminishes, then I'm afraid I don't have much understanding.

On FB this morning there was a young (35 ish) woman who'd been to the protest and doesn't believe in wearing a mask, who said that she wasn't worried about contracting the virus because she knew she has a 99.9% chance of making a full recovery.

Well bully for her but what about all the other poor b*****s she might infect? Plus all the healthcare staff that put themselves at risk caring for those so ill they require hospitalisation. IMO pure selfishness and a total lack of consideration for anyone else.


----------



## Happy Paws2

You just can't understand how stupid and selfish some people can be.


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> Maybe not.
> 
> But if like me you know of someone who's been in hospital for the past 10 weeks 6 of which have been spent, not on a ventilator but intubated. And you know every day that goes by, the chances of him living diminishes, then I'm afraid I don't have much understanding.
> 
> On FB this morning there was a young (35 ish) woman who'd been to the protest and doesn't believe in wearing a mask, who said that she wasn't worried about contracting the virus because she knew she has a 99.9% chance of making a full recovery.
> 
> Well bully for her but what about all the other poor b*****s she might infect? Plus all the healthcare staff that put themselves at risk caring for those so ill they require hospitalisation. IMO pure selfishness and a total lack of consideration for anyone else.


Also the danger of long Covid. So selfish if we just all followed the rule and tried it would be over a lot quick.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Dobby65 said:


> Mrs F, every time I read this I fizz with anger on your behalf. Is this "abuse" related to Covid, or just in general? When I had my babies the midwives were my Angels - I can't imagine any scenario whereby I'd have wanted to criticise them, let alone anything worse. ☹


It's definitely got worse since Covid arrived. I've been told to F off when I asked someone to put their face mask on in the waiting room, been told I've ruined someone's pregnancy, been complained about by people because they can't have their partner in for a scan/an appt, been sworn at because there's a man with a woman over there and why can't mine be here (oh if only we could tell you why he's here! Then you'd feel about as small as is humanly possible to feel), been called many names.

Thing is, I bring some of it on myself - I'm a stickler for rules when they are there for good reason - like protecting an entire vulnerable population. What I personally believe regarding Covid and what we should or shouldn't do is besides the point, I work for the Trust so I must at least attempt to enforce the rules. I also strongly believe in equity - and for 99% of the women who do follow the rules and don't bring their partner, I will not let the 1% do what they like - why should they? Hence the threatening and complaints. It's the same as the fact I will call staff out when they are travelling to and from work in uniform. We are told very clearly not to, for obvious reasons, so when I see you walking in wearing uniform, I will speak to you about it - particularly if you are working on the flipping Covid ward near my department!

Gggrrrr. Thank goodness I'm off most of this week...I can't wait! Thank you @Dobby65 for being cross on my behalf!


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> It's definitely got worse since Covid arrived. I've been told to F off when I asked someone to put their face mask on in the waiting room, been told I've ruined someone's pregnancy, been complained about by people because they can't have their partner in for a scan/an appt, been sworn at because there's a man with a woman over there and why can't mine be here (oh if only we could tell you why he's here! Then you'd feel about as small as is humanly possible to feel), been called many names.
> 
> Thing is, I bring some of it on myself - I'm a stickler for rules when they are there for good reason - like protecting an entire vulnerable population. What I personally believe regarding Covid and what we should or shouldn't do is besides the point, I work for the Trust so I must at least attempt to enforce the rules. I also strongly believe in equity - and for 99% of the women who do follow the rules and don't bring their partner, I will not let the 1% do what they like - why should they? Hence the threatening and complaints. It's the same as the fact I will call staff out when they are travelling to and from work in uniform. We are told very clearly not to, for obvious reasons, so when I see you walking in wearing uniform, I will speak to you about it - particularly if you are working on the flipping Covid ward near my department!
> 
> Gggrrrr. Thank goodness I'm off most of this week...I can't wait! Thank you @Dobby65 for being cross on my behalf!


Oh bless you, it's such a thankless task at times I know. It makes me mad when I see people in uniform shopping, we have several care homes locally and we all know what hotbeds they are.
My cleaner is a carer too ( not for me!) but she has every excuse under the sun for not wearing a mask while she cleans for me despite me giving her specially made mask adapters to ensure a good fit. I'm going to have to say somethng as I am clincally vulnerable.


----------



## tabelmabel

I'll tell you what else has really scared me @catz4m8z - ive been following the heartbreaking story of derek draper. And i did a bit of googling to find out what it is like to be put in an induced coma.

And it turns out some people have some consciousness in the coma and have awful hallucinations and visions and some have flashbacks of these visions once brought out of the coma.

I dont know if this is a common phenomonan or quite rare but i am fair worried about ending up on a ventilator.

And then of course the people that have 'recovered' some of them are really struggling with various symptoms months later.

You would think the fact that they are letting 11yrs and under mix freely (in scotland anyway) but they have come down with much stricter guidance for those over 12 would alert people to the thought that anyone over 12 could be left struggling with these long lasting consequences.

But, no, it would seem that people continue to think it wont affect them.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> - im beginning to think this is the good old media stirring it all up.


There isn't much else happening at present - maybe when the American election is in full swing we might get something else. I also read (albeit in DM) that many old people would ''rather die than spend Christmas without their families''. That I really cannot believe.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> It's definitely got worse since Covid arrived. I've been told to F off when I asked someone to put their face mask on in the waiting room, been told I've ruined someone's pregnancy, been complained about by people because they can't have their partner in for a scan/an appt, been sworn at because there's a man with a woman over there and why can't mine be here (oh if only we could tell you why he's here! Then you'd feel about as small as is humanly possible to feel), been called many names.
> 
> Thing is, I bring some of it on myself - I'm a stickler for rules when they are there for good reason - like protecting an entire vulnerable population. What I personally believe regarding Covid and what we should or shouldn't do is besides the point, I work for the Trust so I must at least attempt to enforce the rules. I also strongly believe in equity - and for 99% of the women who do follow the rules and don't bring their partner, I will not let the 1% do what they like - why should they? Hence the threatening and complaints. It's the same as the fact I will call staff out when they are travelling to and from work in uniform. We are told very clearly not to, for obvious reasons, so when I see you walking in wearing uniform, I will speak to you about it - particularly if you are working on the flipping Covid ward near my department!
> 
> Gggrrrr. Thank goodness I'm off most of this week...I can't wait! Thank you @Dobby65 for being cross on my behalf!


What in the hell is the matter with these people. I couldn't have my husband with me when I went into hospital to have my cancer op, I thought I was going to die for heavens sake, but he still couldn't be there. I had to walk along deserted hospital corridors trying to find the ward virtually in tears because I felt so lonely and thought I would never see him again


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> they can't have their partner in for a scan/an appt,


My son was not allowed to be with his wife while she was giving birth. Neither of them made a fuss even tho' he had to sit in the car for 12 hours with the 18-month old waiting for her and the baby to be discharged. It was just the way it was, abusing the staff would not make things any better.


----------



## Jesthar

SusieRainbow said:


> My cleaner is a carer too ( not for me!) but she has every excuse under the sun for not wearing a mask while she cleans for me despite me giving her specially made mask adapters to ensure a good fit. I'm going to have to say somethng as I am clincally vulnerable.


Never mind say something, lay down the law. She wears a mask as you require, or it's time to find another cleaner.


----------



## Dobby65

Mrs Funkin said:


> It's definitely got worse since Covid arrived. I've been told to F off when I asked someone to put their face mask on in the waiting room, been told I've ruined someone's pregnancy, been complained about by people because they can't have their partner in for a scan/an appt, been sworn at because there's a man with a woman over there and why can't mine be here (oh if only we could tell you why he's here! Then you'd feel about as small as is humanly possible to feel), been called many names.
> 
> Thing is, I bring some of it on myself - I'm a stickler for rules when they are there for good reason - like protecting an entire vulnerable population. What I personally believe regarding Covid and what we should or shouldn't do is besides the point, I work for the Trust so I must at least attempt to enforce the rules. I also strongly believe in equity - and for 99% of the women who do follow the rules and don't bring their partner, I will not let the 1% do what they like - why should they? Hence the threatening and complaints. It's the same as the fact I will call staff out when they are travelling to and from work in uniform. We are told very clearly not to, for obvious reasons, so when I see you walking in wearing uniform, I will speak to you about it - particularly if you are working on the flipping Covid ward near my department!
> 
> Gggrrrr. Thank goodness I'm off most of this week...I can't wait! Thank you @Dobby65 for being cross on my behalf!


Absolutely appalling. As you said, I feel sorry for the babies with mothers like that!


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> What in the hell is the matter with these people. I couldn't have my husband with me when I went into hospital to have my cancer op, I thought I was going to die for heavens sake, but he still couldn't be there. I had to walk along deserted hospital corridors trying to find the ward virtually in tears because I felt so lonely and thought I would never see him again


That must have been so frightening


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I know @Boxer123 - im beginning to think this is the good old media stirring it all up. I just cant believe students are that desperate to get home for christmas.
> 
> Mass lock in in the halls would have been my idea of brilliant fun at that age!
> 
> There was a dad pictured on our tv news last night taking food parcels to his student daughter as she is self isolating and apparently a lot of students have no food to sustain them through self isolation.
> 
> I mean surely to any self respecting young person that is just embarrassing to the point of mortification?! Your dad actually turning up with food at uni??!!
> 
> I think all my kids would have been mortified had i stood at the primary school gates waving some forgotton sandwiches!!
> 
> I can well imagine my daughter's face if i turned up at her school! (She is high school now)
> 
> Im sure these unis with students self isolating dont need parents turning up. They will get food parcels organised before anyone actually starves


It wouldn't surprise me if it were true though.

Remember the parents who bought burgers and fed them to their kids through the fence when some schools tried improving the health of pupils by reducing fast food on the menu and not allowing them off the premises at lunch time?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Also the danger of long Covid. So selfish if we just all followed the rule and tried it would be over a lot quick.


I might have posted this before ....

Like the 30 something Doctor who survived Covid but has been left with ongoing health/heart issues which may or may not be serious in the long term.

I watched the tv programme where his twin (also a doctor on a Covid Ward, with tears in his eyes) watched him having his heart "jump started" in A&E because it was racing at a dangerous level.


----------



## tabelmabel

Yeah i think social media hasnt helped today's kids seperate from parents. Some of the parents seem to get on side with their kids against the teachers or establishment whatever it might be and add fuel to the child's outrage at unfair treatment.

Years ago parents were on board with teachers and, to look out of a classroom window and see your mum or dad approaching the school office - well how un cool was that!


These days it's more like 'cool! Me dad's coming to sort that teacher out!'

Out come the phones, social media and suddenly all parents and kids are on side against the school. Crazy crazy world!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Siskin said:


> What in the hell is the matter with these people. I couldn't have my husband with me when I went into hospital to have my cancer op, I thought I was going to die for heavens sake, but he still couldn't be there. I had to walk along deserted hospital corridors trying to find the ward virtually in tears because I felt so lonely and thought I would never see him again


Oh Siskin, it makes me so sad to read this - it must have been so awful for you and your husband. I hope your recovery is going well.

It's been so hard. We've had some terrible things happen during all of this and we can't even hug a lady


----------



## willa

Watched BGT lastnight and Hairspray was performing. Made me realise how much I miss musicals ! 
Will the West End ever be open again


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> Also the danger of long Covid. So selfish if we just all followed the rule and tried it would be over a lot quick.


My friend comes back from a family holiday to North Wales tomorrow, close to Tenby
On the way they stopped to pick up her sister who lives between Newport and Cardiff and her brother joined the 3 sisters Friday night
So here's the true scenario
My friend - lives in Suffolk, just recovering from double mastectomy, had chemo and radio through lockdown as it was so bad
Her elder sister- a teacher in 6th form in a general school in stevenage
Her younger sister, lives between Newport and Cardiff, sufferer of long covid, lives with daughter who suffers from ME
Youngest brother -not sure where lives, but different area to other three, lives with wife who is still on tablet medication for bowel/colon cancer
They all spent three days in a caravan together, out and about on beaches, coastal walks and visiting Tenby and surrounding area

She honestly cannot see why I am worried as they are a 'family bubble'


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> What in the hell is the matter with these people. I couldn't have my husband with me when I went into hospital to have my cancer op, I thought I was going to die for heavens sake, but he still couldn't be there. I had to walk along deserted hospital corridors trying to find the ward virtually in tears because I felt so lonely and thought I would never see him again


Such a scary time for you both 

When I left hubby at the door of A&E with clots on his lungs due to his chemo following the cancer op, I too was faced with the thought it might be our last goodbye if the embolism got worse (caused a stroke/heart attack) or even if he caught covid in there on top, which given his issues could have finished him off.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh Siskin, it makes me so sad to read this - it must have been so awful for you and your husband. I hope your recovery is going well.
> 
> It's been so hard. We've had some terrible things happen during all of this and we can't even hug a lady


I'm fairly pleased with my recovery. Still have a very swollen leg and I'm still not able to bend it very much. But on Thursday I walked one and a half miles (using the crutches) and it didn't take that long. It was brilliant to get out onto the heath and do a bit of birdwatching. Don't use crutches indoors at all now. Tried a couple of times using trekking poles on short walks but I end up with a lot of knee pain. The knee is very arthritic and was likely to be replaced had this not happened. So much muscle has been removed or moved about that the knee has much less support now and is just sore especially the tendons


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm glad to read that you are out and about and pleased with your recovery so far. Paws crossed for further improvements as time goes by.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've just been reading though the last few pages, I am now have tears in my eyes, some of you had gone though with so much. 

I count myself lucky, OH has recovered from the cancer operation he had last year and with all my health problems to many to bore you with, we are Both doing OK and we are doing our best to stay that way. 

Please keep safe XX


----------



## kimthecat

Received email asking me to download trace and track app but its only for smart phones of 6.0 and mine is 5.1.


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> Received email asking me to download trace and track app but its only for smart phones of 6.0 and mine is 5.1.


Thats handy isn't it!
They must have spent a fortune on ads too. They had a front page spread on the Saturday daily mail we get for OHs nan, its been on the radio and ads pop up on games I have on my phone. When really, is that needed? Most people are aware of it.

I dont know if they fixed it but when you are out it uses up your mobile data and it drains the battery supposedly too.


----------



## kimthecat

HarlequinCat said:


> Thats handy isn't it!
> They must have spent a fortune on ads too. They had a front page spread on the Saturday daily mail we get for OHs nan, its been on the radio and ads pop up on games I have on my phone. When really, is that needed? Most people are aware of it.
> 
> I dont know if they fixed it but when you are out it uses up your mobile data and it drains the battery supposedly too.


Oh dear! Doesnt sound good.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Received email asking me to download trace and track app but its only for smart phones of 6.0 and mine is 5.1.


 I've no idea what mine is! But I know several people who do not possess a smartphone and have no intention of doing so.
(I know mine is Android, Samsung 8 and that's about it. Inherited from son very shortly after he bought it and decided he hated it.)


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> I've no idea what mine is! But I know several people who do not possess a smartphone and have no intention of doing so.


I don't have a smartphone and if they think I'm going to pay out for something I don't want they can get S*****d.

I only need a cheap Pay-as-Go for emergencies.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> I don't have a smartphone and if they think I'm going to pay out for something I don't want they can get S*****d.
> 
> I only need a cheap Pay-as-Go for emergencies.


Me to
I have said before my phone is old enough for Adam to have used
It spends most of its time switched off in my handbag


----------



## StormyThai

The app uses Bluetooth Low Energy features on the smartphone hence why it drains the battery and why it only works on newer up to date smartphones...

Sorry Mr BJ there is absolutely no chance of me having a bluetooth app running in the background...the government can't be trusted to not lose very important paperwok so there is zero chance that I will trust anything that could be used to mine information on my phone.

I don't go to pubs or restaurants and only go shopping once a week as I have been for the entire pandemic...I am perfectly capable of keeping away from people so no need to trace me


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> The app uses Bluetooth Low Energy features on the smartphone hence why it drains the battery and why it only works on newer up to date smartphones...
> 
> Sorry Mr BJ there is absolutely no chance of me having a bluetooth app running in the background...the government can't be trusted to not lose very important paperwok so there is zero chance that I will trust anything that could be used to mine information on my phone.
> 
> I don't go to pubs or restaurants and only go shopping once a week as I have been for the entire pandemic...I am perfectly capable of keeping away from people so no need to trace me


I'm happy to use the app if it helps locate people I've been in 'contact' with that might have Covid.

The Bluetooth LE doesn't drain my battery at all that I've noticed as it's only pulling power _when a connection is made_.

So no, the app does not drain the battery. Yes it's true that it only works on newer operating systems due to the way it's made.

I can't see how the government will gain any more info than you already have online.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Went for an evening walk past the local takeaways which were busy as its a Saturday and no one entering them wore a mask , only one person serving was wearing a mask . This was out of four takeaways  No wonder its spreading in our area,


It's so infuriating isn't it?

I went out for Sunday lunch yesterday, first time in about 6 months.

The pub close to me was very quiet. All staff were wearing masks or face shields, all customers were wearing masks apart from when seated at the tables.

Details taken, QR code to use for NHS covid App check-in, table service only. Just what everybody should be doing.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> I'm happy to use the app if it helps locate people I've been in 'contact' with that might have Covid.
> 
> The Bluetooth LE doesn't drain my battery at all that I've noticed as it's only pulling power _when a connection is made_.
> 
> So no, the app does not drain the battery. Yes it's true that it only works on newer operating systems due to the way it's made.
> 
> I can't see how the government will gain any more info than you already have online.


Good for you...still not going to use it.
I don't have my contacts list online, I don't have any of my clients details online and many other things that may be on my phone but I don't put it out there. I am also very careful about what apps I use because of lack of security...this app is no different and all it does is give people a false sense of security IMHO.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Good for you...still not going to use it.
> I don't have my contacts list online, I don't have any of my clients details online and many other things that may be on my phone but I don't put it out there. I am also very careful about what apps I use because of lack of security...this app is no different and all it does is give people a false sense of security IMHO.


How on earth is it a false sense of security?

Where would we be if everyone took that stance? It's tin foil hat territory IMO.

The App isn't perfect, which has been admitted by our local public health team so they are looking at something to also help out with.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> How on earth is it a false sense of security?


It's ok to go to the pub because we have the track and trace thing in place so we can contact everyone and keep things under control. 
You can suggest my thoughts are tin foil territory (even though there are plenty of apps out there that are a huge security risk but we shall just brush over that for now) which is a bit insulting, or you can just understand that just because you are happy to use this app, not all of us are!


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> It's so infuriating isn't it?
> 
> I went out for Sunday lunch yesterday, first time in about 6 months.
> 
> The pub close to me was very quiet. All staff were wearing masks or face shields, all customers were wearing masks apart from when seated at the tables.
> 
> Details taken, QR code to use for NHS covid App check-in, table service only. Just what everybody should be doing.


That's good to hear of people following the rules. I rarely do eating out  but I do miss going to the local the theatre .


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> newer operating systems


 How new is ''newer''? Does anyone here know?


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> How new is ''newer''? Does anyone here know?


2015 and newer, anything older won't be supported and it's not available on Huawei phones.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> How new is ''newer''? Does anyone here know?


If you have Apple, iOS 13.5 or newer.


----------



## mrs phas

I'm with those not downloading it, I'm afraid
I don't meet with other people, except my friend and that's been mainly in the garden
( She has got the hump, cos I said I wouldn't meet with her for a minimum of 10 days )
I don't go to pubs, 
I can't afford to eat out, even in the 'eat out to help out ' month,
I have shopping delivered and open the door wearing a mask (I have one on the door handle so cant forget)
Matt and I walk the dogs, keeping away from other people
Wear our masks, as we should, if we have to go into a shop (very rare occasions, today I had to, as, I had a bulb blow, and of course I had used all in the house)
And
I have no problem asking people to move away, if they get closer than 2metres
I live in an extremely low risk area (unless you work in a chicken factory it seems!)

I know I haven't got covid, 
I also know I haven't had it (had two tests now, due to other people telling me, themselves, they think have symptoms and, being the only driver, I've had to take them for tests, both have been negative for them and me)
So having isolated for 15 weeks, and still take all the above precautions
Why the heck should I?
Tracking doesn't bother me (I have umpteen store cards, so am tracked already)
I don't run a business with customer list, that I'd like to keep private (totally understandable reason imho)
So that doesn't bother me
I'm not an intensely private person, anyone can pick up my phone and answer it, or use it, I don't have it password protected, nor do I have 'private' texts
More people know my phone number, and my email (which is immensely memorable) than I can shake a stick at
I have a 2019 phone with Android 10, and, fast charge, so that's not a problem either
So
Why don't I download it?
Because I choose not to,
and
until I live in a police state
That the only reason I'm required to give anyone


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD

Well, I hope there are more people that will use the app than refuse to which I think is the case, otherwise we will get nowhere with this virus because people just will not follow the rules.

If people are happy staying away from everyone, not mixing and not going out for meals etc, then that's fine. As it's the way it will stay for a long time if we don't get this under control.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I forgot to turn the tracing off on the app at work yesterday (oops!) but I did my first check in this morning at the opticians  What a jet-setting life I lead  Sadly the dentist didn't have a QR code...


----------



## Boxer123

I have the app not to sure what I’m meant to do with it as I rarely leave my house.


----------



## Cully

I think most reasonable people accept that this virus isn't going anywhere so we're stuck with it. We just need to do whatever it takes to ensure the NHS doesn't get brought to it's knees trying to cope with a tsunami of serious cases. The only real way to get on top of it permanently is with a vaccine. So until then we all have to do whatever it takes keep ourselves and others safe.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Its really hard to get a dentist appointment at the moment, I havent been registered to a dentist in years because of a phobia.

I had just worked up the nerve to sign up to one my OH goes to when lockdown happened. I have a few things that need to be seen to sooner rather than later. Its something I've put off because i dont like feeling trapped in the chair or having people right in my face. I'd say really should be seen quickly even, but unless you are in agonising pain I couldn't get anything for over 6 - 9 months on nhs. So I had to say I would go for their private option and I have to wait a month instead, and pay more. I have my fingers crossed they can fit me in sooner though


----------



## Cully

HarlequinCat said:


> Its really hard to get a dentist appointment at the moment, I havent been registered to a dentist in years because of a phobia.
> 
> I had just worked up the nerve to sign up to one my OH goes to when lockdown happened. I have a few things that need to be seen to sooner rather than later. Its something I've put off because i dont like feeling trapped in the chair or having people right in my face. I'd say really should be seen quickly even, but unless you are in agonising pain I couldn't get anything for over 6 - 9 months on nhs. So I had to say I would go for their private option and I have to wait a month instead, and pay more. I have my fingers crossed they can fit me in sooner though


 You have my sympathy. I have a real fear of dentists and have to be in agony before I go. Good luck with your appointment. I hope you don't have to wait too long.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm another who has a serious dental fear...I had to go a few years ago though with severe tooth pain (and consequently needed a root filling) and since then I've been regularly, somehow I can manage to deal with it now. No choice where I live except private, it does annoy me that I work for the NHS but can't get an NHS dentist. I am in their monthly plan to spread the cost a little or the check up and hygienist today would have been over £130. I had to pay £37.50 for my eye test today too...combined with another £100 of shopping (why is food so expensive at the moment! Anyone would think something was going on, hah) today that makes for a not very cheap day. On the plus side, the dentist didn't charge me extra for PPE, which my husband had to pay at his dentist earlier this month.


----------



## Boxer123

Over 7000 cases today I’m getting so anxious about this virus. I was going to visit my mum for my birthday but am having second thoughts.


----------



## SusieRainbow

My husband and I have both downloaded the NHS App with the same post-code. This evening, at the same time , the app states that he's in a high risk area and I'm in a medium risk area.
We are 5 feet apart .


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> My husband and I have both downloaded the NHS App with the same post-code. This evening, at the same time , the app states that he's in a high risk area and I'm in a medium risk area.
> We are 5 feet apart .


Different networks, different tracking systems?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> You have my sympathy. I have a real fear of dentists and have to be in agony before I go. Good luck with your appointment. I hope you don't have to wait too long.


Thanks Cully, I'm both wanting to be called for an appointment soon, but also not at the same time. Just want it over with!



Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm another who has a serious dental fear...I had to go a few years ago though with severe tooth pain (and consequently needed a root filling) and since then I've been regularly, somehow I can manage to deal with it now. No choice where I live except private, it does annoy me that I work for the NHS but can't get an NHS dentist. I am in their monthly plan to spread the cost a little or the check up and hygienist today would have been over £130. I had to pay £37.50 for my eye test today too...combined with another £100 of shopping (why is food so expensive at the moment! Anyone would think something was going on, hah) today that makes for a not very cheap day. On the plus side, the dentist didn't charge me extra for PPE, which my husband had to pay at his dentist earlier this month.


That does sound rather annoying, to work for the nhs but still have to pay private.
I'll have to see about a plan, if they have one, or it'll get too expensive. We are already a bit tight on money, and most dentists here aren't taking on nhs patients anymore. I think for this appointment I'm going to i have to pay extra for PPE too.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Another briefing from BJ tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Jackie C

It's not an "NHS app", it's a private firm, Serco, who developed it.


----------



## MilleD

Jackie C said:


> It's not an "NHS app", it's a private firm, Serco, who developed it.


The app was 'developed' by a company called Pivotal.

Regardless, it was done for the NHS, hence it's the NHS Covid-19 App.


----------



## Jackie C

tabelmabel said:


> I'll tell you what else has really scared me @catz4m8z - ive been following the heartbreaking story of derek draper. And i did a bit of googling to find out what it is like to be put in an induced coma.
> 
> And it turns out some people have some consciousness in the coma and have awful hallucinations and visions and some have flashbacks of these visions once brought out of the coma.
> 
> I dont know if this is a common phenomonan or quite rare but i am fair worried about ending up on a ventilator.
> 
> And then of course the people that have 'recovered' some of them are really struggling with various symptoms months later.
> .


"ICU delirium" is a very common phenomenon and affects about 40% of patients who have been admitted to ICU and end up on ventilators. People aren't in a coma, necessarily, they are in a medically-induced coma, ie: they are given drugs to sedate them and stabilise them. You would not tolerate an ETT without it. However, one size does not fit all - ie: Drugs affect people differently depending on weight, ideal body weight, age, how sick you are, how tolerant you are of drugs, the speed you metabolise them, plus multiple other factors, like how sick you are, your blood biochemistry, your blood pH, your other organs.....this list goes on forever. Although calculations are made, there are too many variables. The more drugs you give, the longer the person takes to wake up. You don't go from being in a fully sedated state to being completely awake, sitting up and having a cup of tea. The transition from sedation being turned off can be very slow. Most people are confused, and for some, this is only a short period of time. But for many, this state can go on for quite some time. Hallucinations, serious confusion, fear, people can be very aggressive. This impedes their recovery and rehabilitation and they refuse treatment, fight staff, pull out lines, pull off equipment, pull out feeding tubes. 
But I can't go on any further, there are pages and pages I could write about it! 
People think you go to ICU, we give you some drugs, insert a tube and then help you to breathe, and then you wake up and you're better - far from it. 
Some people can be aware when they're in a medically-induced coma, long explanation why. People can suffer physically and mentally for quite some time long after leaving hospital. 
The research is saying that people with Covid are having a hard time and the statistics for ICU delirium is higher. I don't know the reasons why, I've not fully looked into it.


----------



## Jackie C

MilleD said:


> The app was 'developed' by a company called Pivotal.
> 
> Regardless, it was done for the NHS, hence it's the NHS Covid-19 App.


Oh, sorry, I read it was Serco. Regardless, it's a private company which were appointed by the government.


----------



## MilleD

Jackie C said:


> Oh, sorry, I read it was Serco. Regardless, it's a private company which were appointed by the government.


The Serco privacy issues have been cited as a reason to not use it, but it's not them.

Even so, the NHS don't make things like their own MRI scanners, but people are happy to use that sort of thing even though they are private companies who make them....


----------



## SusieRainbow

Jackie C said:


> "ICU delirium" is a very common phenomenon and affects about 40% of patients who have been admitted to ICU and end up on ventilators. People aren't in a coma, necessarily, they are in a medically-induced coma, ie: they are given drugs to sedate them and stabilise them. You would not tolerate an ETT without it. However, one size does not fit all - ie: Drugs affect people differently depending on weight, ideal body weight, age, how sick you are, how tolerant you are of drugs, the speed you metabolise them, plus multiple other factors, like how sick you are, your blood biochemistry, your blood pH, your other organs.....this list goes on forever. Although calculations are made, there are too many variables. The more drugs you give, the longer the person takes to wake up. You don't go from being in a fully sedated state to being completely awake, sitting up and having a cup of tea. The transition from sedation being turned off can be very slow. Most people are confused, and for some, this is only a short period of time. But for many, this state can go on for quite some time. Hallucinations, serious confusion, fear, people can be very aggressive. This impedes their recovery and rehabilitation and they refuse treatment, fight staff, pull out lines, pull off equipment, pull out feeding tubes.
> But I can't go on any further, there are pages and pages I could write about it!
> People think you go to ICU, we give you some drugs, insert a tube and then help you to breathe, and then you wake up and you're better - far from it.
> Some people can be aware when they're in a medically-induced coma, long explanation why. People can suffer physically and mentally for quite some time long after leaving hospital.
> The research is saying that people with Covid are having a hard time and the statistics for ICU delirium is higher. I don't know the reasons why, I've not fully looked into it.


This is what terrifies us most of all I think, the feeling of helplessness and partial awareness. I don't think enough people know about it, hence the blase attitude of so many.


----------



## MilleD

Jackie C said:


> "ICU delirium" is a very common phenomenon and affects about 40% of patients who have been admitted to ICU and end up on ventilators. People aren't in a coma, necessarily, they are in a medically-induced coma, ie: they are given drugs to sedate them and stabilise them. You would not tolerate an ETT without it. However, one size does not fit all - ie: Drugs affect people differently depending on weight, ideal body weight, age, how sick you are, how tolerant you are of drugs, the speed you metabolise them, plus multiple other factors, like how sick you are, your blood biochemistry, your blood pH, your other organs.....this list goes on forever. Although calculations are made, there are too many variables. The more drugs you give, the longer the person takes to wake up. You don't go from being in a fully sedated state to being completely awake, sitting up and having a cup of tea. The transition from sedation being turned off can be very slow. Most people are confused, and for some, this is only a short period of time. But for many, this state can go on for quite some time. Hallucinations, serious confusion, fear, people can be very aggressive. This impedes their recovery and rehabilitation and they refuse treatment, fight staff, pull out lines, pull off equipment, pull out feeding tubes.
> But I can't go on any further, there are pages and pages I could write about it!
> People think you go to ICU, we give you some drugs, insert a tube and then help you to breathe, and then you wake up and you're better - far from it.
> Some people can be aware when they're in a medically-induced coma, long explanation why. People can suffer physically and mentally for quite some time long after leaving hospital.
> The research is saying that people with Covid are having a hard time and the statistics for ICU delirium is higher. I don't know the reasons why, I've not fully looked into it.


It doesn't sound an attractive proposition, yet people still seem happy to take so many risks.

Honestly, those idiots partying in the street just because the pubs closed at 10pm made my blood boil.


----------



## StormyThai

Jackie C said:


> It's not an "NHS app", it's a private firm, Serco, who developed it.


As already stated it was Pivotal...much better to call it the NHS track and trace so that it is easier to lay blame with the NHS when it doesn't work as marketed.
Putting the obvious security holes aside...when people can't follow the guidelines and refuse to wear masks then why on earth do people think that a random app will make people isolate?
When Stagecoach drivers are seen at antimask protests (I know of one personally) and then still drive unsuspecting people around...why on earth will they listen to an app that tells them to isolate?

But anyway...on my soapbox again so I'll step down and shut up again


----------



## Jackie C

StormyThai said:


> As already stated it was Pivotal...much better to call it the NHS track and trace so that it is easier to lay blame with the NHS when it doesn't work as marketed.


Exactly. The government are actively trying to privatise the NHS, thus using the term "NHS app" so when it doesn't work, it's another stick the hit the NHS with. That is why I will not call it the "NHS T&T app".


----------



## tabelmabel

Jackie C said:


> "ICU delirium" is a very common phenomenon and affects about 40% of patients who have been admitted to ICU and end up on ventilators. People aren't in a coma, necessarily, they are in a medically-induced coma, ie: they are given drugs to sedate them and stabilise them. You would not tolerate an ETT without it. However, one size does not fit all - ie: Drugs affect people differently depending on weight, ideal body weight, age, how sick you are, how tolerant you are of drugs, the speed you metabolise them, plus multiple other factors, like how sick you are, your blood biochemistry, your blood pH, your other organs.....this list goes on forever. Although calculations are made, there are too many variables. The more drugs you give, the longer the person takes to wake up. You don't go from being in a fully sedated state to being completely awake, sitting up and having a cup of tea. The transition from sedation being turned off can be very slow. Most people are confused, and for some, this is only a short period of time. But for many, this state can go on for quite some time. Hallucinations, serious confusion, fear, people can be very aggressive. This impedes their recovery and rehabilitation and they refuse treatment, fight staff, pull out lines, pull off equipment, pull out feeding tubes.
> But I can't go on any further, there are pages and pages I could write about it!
> People think you go to ICU, we give you some drugs, insert a tube and then help you to breathe, and then you wake up and you're better - far from it.
> Some people can be aware when they're in a medically-induced coma, long explanation why. People can suffer physically and mentally for quite some time long after leaving hospital.
> The research is saying that people with Covid are having a hard time and the statistics for ICU delirium is higher. I don't know the reasons why, I've not fully looked into it.


That's not put my mind at rest one little bit @Jackie C !! Yes, i knew the coma was medically induced. A very long time ago (like when i was about 3yrs old) i took a full bottle of junior aspirin. Super tasty and no childproof caps in those days.

I had to have my stomach pumped and i can actually still vividly remember it over 50 yrs later. I seem to have been left with this underlying fear of being pushed back onto a hospital bed, unable to breathe or talk.

I was a very shy little girl and im sure i tolerated the procedure bravely and didnt say a word but am traumatised ever after. I have an irrational fear of having locked in syndrome too - no idea why. I dont know anyone personally that has had it. Just have to take every good health day and be appreciative. Carpe diem and all that!


----------



## Magyarmum

tabelmabel said:


> That's not put my mind at rest one little bit @Jackie C !! Yes, i knew the coma was medically induced. A very long time ago (like when i was about 3yrs old) i took a full bottle of junior aspirin. Super tasty and no childproof caps in those days.
> 
> I had to have my stomach pumped and i can actually still vividly remember it over 50 yrs later. I seem to have been left with this underlying fear of being pushed back onto a hospital bed, unable to breathe or talk.
> 
> I was a very shy little girl and im sure i tolerated the procedure bravely and didnt say a word but am traumatised ever after. I have an irrational fear of having locked in syndrome too - no idea why. I dont know anyone pnersonally that has had it. Just have to take every good health day and be appreciative. Carpe diem and all that!


Three and a half years ago I was rushed to hospital with a perforated stomach ulcer. I spent 10 days in hospital, 3 of which were in the ICU. During that time I was given a cocktail of drugs to prevent infection some of which caused the most vivid hallucinations which I can still remember.

Most of the dreams were about dogs and the manufacture and delivery of organically produced dog food (I wonder why?). Somewhere along the line a computer was involved and the problems with the dog food was because I'd pressed the wrong button and was receiving ready made dog meals three times a day from the US and no matter what I did I couldn't stop them arriving. Like you, even though in my dreams I tried to call out for help, I'd lost my voice. Very bizarre!


----------



## tabelmabel

In my memory i wasnt put under at all for my stomach pump. I was fully conscious with a suction tube down my throat and was just too shy and quiet to put up any fight against it. Whether that is a true memory or a false one i dont know, but it is real in my head.

Your dreams sound quite fun @Magyarmum ! But the part about calling out and having no voice sounds terrifying


----------



## Jackie C

tabelmabel said:


> That's not put my mind at rest one little bit @Jackie C !! Yes, i knew the coma was medically induced. A very long time ago (like when i was about 3yrs old) i took a full bottle of junior aspirin. Super tasty and no childproof caps in those days.
> 
> I had to have my stomach pumped and i can actually still vividly remember it over 50 yrs later. I seem to have been left with this underlying fear of being pushed back onto a hospital bed, unable to breathe or talk.
> 
> I was a very shy little girl and im sure i tolerated the procedure bravely and didnt say a word but am traumatised ever after. I have an irrational fear of having locked in syndrome too - no idea why. I dont know anyone personally that has had it. Just have to take every good health day and be appreciative. Carpe diem and all that!


Sorry. x



Magyarmum said:


> Three and a half years ago I was rushed to hospital with a perforated stomach ulcer. I spent 10 days in hospital, 3 of which were in the ICU. During that time I was given a cocktail of drugs to prevent infection some of which caused the most vivid hallucinations which I can still remember.
> 
> Most of the dreams were about dogs and the manufacture and delivery of organically produced dog food (I wonder why?). Somewhere along the line a computer was involved and the problems with the dog food was because I'd pressed the wrong button and was receiving ready made dog meals three times a day from the US and no matter what I did I couldn't stop them arriving. Like you, even though in my dreams I tried to call out for help, I'd lost my voice. Very bizarre!


You are certainly not alone in having this. We have a follow-up clinic and people tell of all sorts they were seeing and imagining.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If the 3 of us having the app saves us from contracting the virus (and OH from life threatening complications) then it’s worth it imo.

Each to their own.


----------



## ForestWomble

*edited*

I can't get the app as don't have a smart phone.


----------



## Dave S

Slightly off topic but just been to do weekly shop at Tesco's and would you believe it, there was loads of toilet rolls, wash up liquid, bread, sugar, flour (Allinsons Plain white flour - 4 kilos, normally £6.00 reduced to clear £4.50), did not notice any shortages to speak of so lets hope it stays that way.


----------



## mrs phas

How can BJ congratulate university students, when they are the cause of the huge rise, indicated in the graphs, in covid positive infections, between the ages of 17 and 21
The man is really living in lala land


----------



## Cully

Dave S said:


> Slightly off topic but just been to do weekly shop at Tesco's and would you believe it, there was loads of toilet rolls, wash up liquid, bread, sugar, flour (Allinsons Plain white flour - 4 kilos, normally £6.00 reduced to clear £4.50), did not notice any shortages to speak of so lets hope it stays that way.


Well I received my order today and the amount of subs they sent was very annoying. It's never been that bad before. Delivery guy reckons it's down to panic buying again.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Well I received my order today and the amount of subs they sent was very annoying. It's never been that bad before. Delivery guy reckons it's down to panic buying again.


Did you know you had subs before your order arrived, Sanisbury's always let you know any changes before they are sent out so you can refuse them when they arrive.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> Did you know you had subs before your order arrived, Sanisbury's always let you know any changes before they are sent out so you can refuse them when they arrive.


With Tesco you can request an alternative when you place your order, so with a bit of luck, you get something reasonable.
Trouble is that there weren't any alternatives I requested so they sent basically anything, rather than nothing, i.e. 15 bottles of water instead of 3 X 5ltr. Grated cheese instead of a block. Pre packed grated tastes awful and smells worse.
Spicy wedges instead of garlic, and they are way too hot for my taste.
I'll get a refund but it's not the point.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> With Tesco you can request an alternative when you place your order, so with a bit of luck, you get something reasonable.
> Trouble is that there weren't any alternatives I requested so they sent basically anything, rather than nothing, i.e. 15 bottles of water instead of 3 X 5ltr. Grated cheese instead of a block. Pre packed grated tastes awful and smells worse.
> Spicy wedges instead of garlic, and they are way too hot for my taste.
> I'll get a refund but it's not the point.


I rarely request subs as there are certain things we like a lot, I don't like spicy food either, so don't want something we either really don't want or can't eat.
We are supposed to be having a delivery today between 2pm and 10pm but not had a phone call yet to say when, usually know by now. Because we've just come back from Suffolk I ran down the food in the fridge and cupboards thinking that the order would have come by now. Had to scrabble about in the freezer to find something for tea


----------



## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> My husband and I have both downloaded the NHS App with the same post-code. This evening, at the same time , the app states that he's in a high risk area and I'm in a medium risk area.
> We are 5 feet apart .


 That must really fill you with confidence!


----------



## Calvine

Jackie C said:


> It's not an "NHS app", it's a private firm, Serco, who developed it.


 I read too that it is Serco; this is also the name of the company that empties our wheelie bins. They clearly have a finger in many pies.


----------



## Jackie C

Calvine said:


> I read too that it is Serco; this is also the name of the company that empties our wheelie bins. They clearly have a finger in many pies.


Glad it wasn't my imagination.


----------



## Calvine

Jackie C said:


> Glad it wasn't my imagination.


No, you didn't; I thought I got the name wrong too, but it was on a council email telling us they were changing contracters and to brace ourselves for initial disruption (groan). In the event they have been much better than the previous ones.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> No, you didn't; I thought I got the name wrong too, but it was on a council email telling us they were changing contracters and to brace ourselves for initial disruption (groan). In the event they have been much better than the previous ones.


The NHS app is not Serco.....


----------



## MilleD

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-tracking-app-contact-tracing


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I read too that it is Serco; this is also the name of the company that empties our wheelie bins. They clearly have a finger in many pies.


They are an outsourcing company so yes, they do. But this one isn't them.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> If the 3 of us having the app saves us from contracting the virus (and OH from life threatening complications) then it's worth it imo.
> 
> Each to their own.


When one looks at the app statistics, (yes I looked at it all, I'm not that stupid) less than 1/10 of the population (at the 2011 census) have downloaded it
Now one has to take out older people that maybe don't have mobiles, young toddlers/children who don't have mobiles (although it seems 3 and 4 year olds have them these days) and those who have mobiles that cannot access it
But one also has to add in the rise in population, since the last census
Balance of probability is, they even each other out
Basically, it's not working because people don't have any trust in, anything, this government says in regard to covid as it's all been too little too late
And
They have taken no responsibility for their mistakes - *cummings*


----------



## Jackie C

I won't be downloading it. I wouldn't trust this government to open a can of beans that was already open. There have been problems with it from the start and we've been told we have to turn it off at work as some of our patients are Covid+ve, and it's a faff (apparently) to turn it on/off. With the amount of people I work with, it would only take one of us once to forget to turn it off and the whole thing would go into meltdown. 
I am literally only going to the shops and work and that's it as we have a local semi-lockdown.


----------



## Jaf

From what I read online in this bit of Spain any precautions are being more and more ignored as people are not seeing it as a problem. There’s only been a handful of cases in town, only 1 in the village. Everyone wears a mask in the shops, it’s law, but indoors and away from prying eyes is very different. The local village has a b&b and today they were proudly showing pics of 16 kids in the common room, no masks or distancing at all. One of comments is that there’s more kids there than at the village school.

I don’t know what the rules are indoors but only 10 are allowed together in a restaurant. The whole thing is very worrying, not so much for the kids (I understand that they are unlikely to be badly ill) but for the spreading it around everywhere. I don’t understand how people don’t see that the precautions are part of the reason we have so few cases here. I fully expect a huge rise in cases.


----------



## Cully

@Jaf , Those who don't believe how serious this is should be forced to watch the coverage there has been of patients who have gone through serious cases of covid and listen to their stories, if they survived to tell them! It would be sure to change non believers attitudes. It's a terrible illness often causing serious life changing medical conditions for many survivors. My friend whose best mate died from covid said he was told it was like trying to breathe through broken shards of glass.


----------



## Jaf

I wouldn’t be surprised if this particular b&b would run a Coronavirus infection party if they could find an infected person. I’m fairly sure from snatched conversations that they are anti-vax. I used to go to their onsite cafe and they were very anti medications. Perhaps they’d change their minds if they had chronic illnesses. 

They blocked anyone who tried to show them how bad the Coronavirus can be. They’re obviously not going to listen.

I’m just going to hide as much as possible. Luckily I’m quite a hermit anyway.


----------



## Cully

Just keep yourself safe @Jaf , that's the main thing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Turkey and Poland have been added to the quarantine lists from 4am Saturday.

So tourists are scrabbling to get flights home so they can avoid the 2 week isolation curfew.

Why give a deadline a few days ahead? Once the threat is identified it should be immediate imo.

Any who get back now “just in time” could be positive/carrying and start spreading it in the UK from the moment they step off the plane.

They knew the risk. They should all have to quarantine - tough.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Why give a deadline a few days ahead? Once the threat is identified it should be immediate imo.


I honestly believe that this is to give the airlines etc, a boost in income


----------



## SbanR

Midlands news this morning.
There's going to be a mass roll out of two Covid vaccines, possibly as early as next month.
Called Ambush n Triumph.
No further information


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Midlands news this morning.
> There's going to be a mass roll out of two Covid vaccines, possibly as early as next month.
> Called Ambush n Triumph.
> No further information


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-54375643

*Coronavirus: Doctors told to plan for vaccination scheme*


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-54375643
> 
> *Coronavirus: Doctors told to plan for vaccination scheme*


Great if you happen to live in those areas or with easy access to them, but not encouraging for those who don't/haven't. Or have I misunderstood?


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Great if you happen to live in those areas or with easy access to them, but not encouraging for those who don't/haven't. Or have I misunderstood?


The article mentioned mobile units?
Anyway, I'm happy i won't be among the first offered it.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> The article mentioned mobile units?
> Anyway, I'm happy i won't be among the first offered it.


Someone's got to be....


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> Someone's got to be....


But not me!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Great if you happen to live in those areas or with easy access to them, but not encouraging for those who don't/haven't. Or have I misunderstood?


I'm not sure I want to be a Guinea Pig, I'd rather wait a while and see how what affective it is and if there are any side affects.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm not sure I want to be a Guinea Pig, I'd rather wait a while and see how what affective it is and if there are any side affects.


We won't know that for years


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> We won't know that for years


I haven't got years and still going to wait, until the first rush is over anyway.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Happy Paws2

Stopped it, I nearly choked :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 451063


I fart when I cough ,anyway. :Hilarious


----------



## Cully

Well they say when you get to a certain age you become like an old banger with a leaky radiator and/or an exhaust that backfires.


----------



## willa

Seen just under 13,000 new cases yesterday. Doubled . Then saw includes a backlog of cases.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The way things are going I'll be spending the rest of my life in semi-lockdown.:Jawdrop


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going I'll be spending the rest of my life in semi-lockdown.:Jawdrop


Rest of the year at least. My mum was wanting me to go to the pub for dinner for birthday next week but I just don't think it's worth going anywhere I don't have to.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going I'll be spending the rest of my life in semi-lockdown.:Jawdrop


I'll be perfectly happy doing that


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Rest of the year at least. My mum was wanting me to go to the pub for dinner for birthday next week but I just don't think it's worth going anywhere I don't have to.


I don't blame you just snuggle up to with Sox and Loki.



rona said:


> I'll be perfectly happy doing that


To be honest I don't think it would really bother me to much either


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> I'll be perfectly happy doing that


Me too, except I'm afraid I might become a dog hoarder if I did


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Seen just under 13,000 new cases yesterday. Doubled . Then saw includes a backlog of cases.


That's problem, they keep changing how they calculate numbers.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Cully said:


> Well they say when you get to a certain age you become like an old banger with a leaky radiator and/or an exhaust that backfires.
> View attachment 451133


Errmmm, have we met ? You've just described me perfectly !


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> Errmmm, have we met ? You've just described me perfectly !


:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

I was considering having our book club meeting at my house this month, it’s my turn, but it’s going to be a no. There’s only six of us and they are all older then me and have been taking a lot of care and isolating ever since it started pretty much. But with the rise in cases and some students at the agricultural college and some children in two schools in Cirencester testing positive I've decided it’s not worth it. We have had the meetings in peoples gardens during the nice weather but with the best will in the world I can’t see it being that warm and dry now.


----------



## willa

Just under 23,000 new cases . I can’t keep up with all this. What will it be tomorrow


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> Rest of the year at least. My mum was wanting me to go to the pub for dinner for birthday next week but I just don't think it's worth going anywhere I don't have to.


Can you check out the pub and what they have in place? Where I went a week or so ago was very controlled.

On a slightly different note, I took one of the IPSOS MORI survey tests last week, it was negative. Took about 4 days for the result to be sent to me.

The Yodel driver who collected the test looked a bit nervous bless him...


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> Can you check out the pub and what they have in place? Where I went a week or so ago was very controlled.
> 
> On a slightly different note, I took one of the IPSOS MORI survey tests last week, it was negative. Took about 4 days for the result to be sent to me.
> 
> The Yodel driver who collected the test looked a bit nervous bless him...


I could but I still don't fancy it. I'm just going to hermit until next year I think.


----------



## Siskin

We have been to a few pubs over the last couple of months and they have varied as to their precautions. One didn’t seem to have any precautions apart from some disposable cloths and spray to wipe down the outside table. The servers didn’t wear masks and they didn’t take our name and phone number. Another was at the opposite end, a strict one way system in the pub, mask wearing by customers if they went to the loo who then had to adhere to the one way system, no doubling back on yourself. The staff all wore masks and/or vizors, name and phone number the moment you arrived. Much scrubbing of tables between customers and so on. Another only offered us the knives and forks rather then giving them to us or laying them on the table as well as the other precautions.
It really does vary how good they are so worth checking.
However with the startling rise in cases of the virus I don’t think we will be visiting pubs for the foreseeable. Looks like we will be in lockdown in all but name.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Apparently the Excel database collapsed - according to the Daily Fail. Excel?! Really?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-16-000-Covid-cases-missed-Excel-glitch.html

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/16000-coronavirus-cases-missed-uk-glitch

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54412581


----------



## Lurcherlad

We’re only choosing places where we can eat/drink outside.

Met a friend today at a local tea room who have a number of tables under waterproof gazebos (just as well cos as rained as we arrived).

The sun did come out though 

I shall start leaving a couple of fleeces in our car from now on too.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> Apparently the Excel database collapsed - according to the Daily Fail. Excel?! Really?
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-16-000-Covid-cases-missed-Excel-glitch.html
> 
> https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/16000-coronavirus-cases-missed-uk-glitch
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54412581


Excel isn't a database.....


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> We're only choosing places where we can eat/drink outside.
> 
> Met a friend today at a local tea room who have a number of tables under waterproof gazebos (just as well cos as rained as we arrived).
> 
> The sun did come out though
> 
> I shall start leaving a couple of fleeces in our car from now on too.


That's a good idea. It's done nothing but rain here for days. Brrrrrr.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MilleD said:


> Excel isn't a database.....


Oh yes, spreadsheet.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> Oh yes, spreadsheet.


I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft start getting upset about their product being blamed as it would have been user error. It's something about truncating the data, which is most likely caused by something the user has done rather than the programme.

I'm getting fed up of hearing it be reported to be honest.

There was some bloke on the news saying his husband had been tested positive but the track and trace hadn't told him to self-isolate.

You shouldn't need to be told that! Perhaps his husband was keeping it a secret.....


----------



## kimthecat

@MrsPhas Im due an annual mammogram in February and Im wondering if it will go ahead . It will three years then since my surgery. 
Im seeing a rheumatoid nurse in November to be assessed for infusion treatment for RA early next year so it seems they are doing some treatments.


----------



## SbanR

kimthecat said:


> @MrsPhas Im due an annual mammogram in February and Im wondering if it will go ahead . It will three years then since my surgery.
> Im seeing a rheumatoid nurse in November to be assessed for infusion treatment for RA early next year so it seems they are doing some treatments.


I'm going for routine mammogram this Friday, so think yours will be going ahead too.
A mobile unit as usual.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> I'm going for routine mammogram this Friday, so think yours will be going ahead too.
> A mobile unit as usual.


Good luck with it


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Good luck with it


Thank you. Hope it doesn't rain as will have to walk there from town (few buses, no idea of the times)


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> Thank you. Hope it doesn't rain as will have to walk there from town (few buses, no idea of the times)


Can't you ring the bus station for a timetable? There's always a taxi.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Can't you ring the bus station for a timetable? There's always a taxi.


:JawdropSpend £10 on a taxi when I'd rather get some fresh air and exercise!
Will have to though if its chucking it down.


----------



## kimthecat

SbanR said:


> I'm going for routine mammogram this Friday, so think yours will be going ahead too.
> A mobile unit as usual.


That's good. good luck.


----------



## SbanR

kimthecat said:


> That's good. good luck.


Thank you.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> :JawdropSpend £10 on a taxi when I'd rather get some fresh air and exercise!
> Will have to though if its chucking it down.


 Skinflint!! I know what you mean though. I've got to go to my local hospital for a blood test, which I hate. To add insult to injury, after taxi's I wont have much change out of a £20:Arghh.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Skinflint!! I know what you mean though. I've got to go to my local hospital for a blood test, which I hate. To add insult to injury, after taxi's I wont have much change out of a £20:Arghh.


I'd rather save the £10 and put it towards a pamper session


----------



## kimthecat

SbanR said:


> Thank you.


I forgot to say mine is done at my local hospital and they let me know the result there and then which is a relief.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> @MrsPhas Im due an annual mammogram in February and Im wondering if it will go ahead . It will three years then since my surgery.
> Im seeing a rheumatoid nurse in November to be assessed for infusion treatment for RA early next year so it seems they are doing some treatments.


Had mine at end of August, spot on the date AND at the hospital in the breast imaging unit ( year 3, all clear thank goodness)
My friend who had cancer at the same time as me, had a recurrence, last November, in her other breast
The hospital (WSH, Bury st Edmunds) gave her chemo and a double mastectomy during lockdown, and, addenbrookes did her radiotherapy, also during lockdown
Seems we, here, have been very lucky to be in a very low risk area and most urgent ops have continued, even if electives havent


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Had mine at end of August, spot on the date AND at the hospital in the breast imaging unit ( year 3, all clear thank goodness)
> My friend who had cancer at the same time as me, had a recurrence, last November, in her other breast
> The hospital (WSH, Bury st Edmunds) gave her chemo and a double mastectomy during lockdown, and, addenbrookes did her radiotherapy, also during lockdown
> Seems we, here, have been very lucky to be in a very low risk area and most urgent ops have continued, even if electives havent


Glad to hear you mamo was clear. Im sorry your friend had to go through all that . though its good news that she got the treatment. Double mastectomy must have been a blow.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We went out yesterday the first time in a couple of weeks, I had to take a prescription to the Doctors I tried to phone and I was 44 in the queue so I decide to take in instead. OH went to the Post Office and the bank and we called back at Sainsbury's, OH went in to do the shopping and stayed outside in the sunshine getting some fresh air. It was lovely been outside for a while.


----------



## Magyarmum

On Tuesday had to go to the vet because Gwylim needed his Rabies vaccination and I wanted to weigh Comrade Grisha. I'd arranged to meet the boys trainer there so we could go for a walk and do a bit of training afterwards. Two or three people in the waiting room all wearing masks and well spaced. Our vet came out to talk to us and he and Gabor our trainer weighed "fatso" who's put on half a kilo since July. We had a discussion about how to get his weight off, (short of starving him) and then the Schnauzer boys favourite vet nurse came out to give Gwylim his shot and make a big fuss of both of them. Told her she could have them if she wanted, but as she already has 5 dogs she declined. After we left we took the boys for a really nice walk before driving home. 

A lovely day was spent by all.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I can't believe what I've just been told.....

My cousin who is in her 70's and suffers badly Asthma told me she is hoping to go on a weeks coach holiday to York next week.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I can't believe what I've just been told.....
> 
> My cousin who is in her 70's and suffers badly Asthma told me she is hoping to go on a weeks coach holiday to York next week.


I can't believe coach trips are still happening!


----------



## SusieRainbow

I've just been told by my cousin, who is 70 and asthmatic, that she has Covid. She lives in the middle of nowhere and only goes grocery shopping once a week, observing all precautions.
That is scary !


----------



## Boxer123

SusieRainbow said:


> I've just been told by my cousin, who is 70 and asthmatic, that she has Covid. She lives in the middle of nowhere and only goes grocery shopping once a week, observing all precautions.
> That is scary !


Scary I hope she's ok.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> I've just been told by my cousin, who is 70 and asthmatic, that she has Covid. She lives in the middle of nowhere and only goes grocery shopping once a week, observing all precautions.
> *That is scary !*


It is isn't it...



Boxer123 said:


> I can't believe coach trips are still happening!


That's just what I was thinking..


----------



## SusieRainbow

Boxer123 said:


> Scary I hope she's ok.


She says she's on the mend which is reassuring. We've had a long Whatsapp chat.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> I can't believe what I've just been told.....
> 
> My cousin who is in her 70's and suffers badly Asthma told me she is hoping to go on a weeks coach holiday to York next week.




Rather her than me!


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> She says she's on the mend which is reassuring. We've had a long Whatsapp chat.


That's good to hear. I wonder how on earth she got it, recent comments in the Times from scientists think that it's an airborne virus and not one that can be picked up from touching something as we all first thought. Although virus traces can be found on handled objects it isn't enough to infect people apparently. Keeping apart from other people is the key. 
Well that's the scientists thoughts for this week, who knows what they will come up with next week


----------



## Elles

A few short weeks ago Exeter was listed as a city with zero cases, now it’s one of the highest infected areas in the country and the highest in the south-west. University city, who’d have thought thousands of kids turning up and having parties and mingling in the pubs would have brought and spread Covid? I’m astonished, never would have guessed. Local kids going back to school would have been fine, trucking in party goers wasn’t the brightest idea. Some of the kids have been suspended and sent home for refusing to follow the covid rules set by the university.


----------



## Siskin

Elles said:


> A few short weeks ago Exeter was listed as a city with zero cases, now it's one of the highest infected areas in the country and the highest in the south-west. University city, who'd have thought thousands of kids turning up and having parties and mingling in the pubs would have brought and spread Covid? I'm astonished, never would have guessed. Local kids going back to school would have been fine, trucking in party goers wasn't the brightest idea. Some of the kids have been suspended and sent home for refusing to follow the covid rules set by the university.


Same thing happening in Cirencester at the Royal Ag college. Loads of students out enjoying themselves and guess what, the numbers are rising here too


----------



## catz4m8z

This whole year is a total s***show isnt it? Sounds like hospitals are starting to fill up again and whilst it sucks that cases are rising because of lockdowns loosening I dont really see what the solution is. People have to work to pay their bills and we cant exactly ask an entire generation to give up their education as they are the employment force of the future.
We can either have a serious total lockdown and watch as people lose their jobs and homes or relax things until cases rise and peoples health is put in jeopardy.
(I really wouldnt want to be the one running the country...well, any country! right about now. There just isnt a solution until we get a vaccine or it burns itself out).


----------



## Lurcherlad

Similar issue with people in care homes being separated from family and loved ones long term.

No easy solution though as they will all be extremely vulnerable to Covid. How to guarantee visitors don’t bring it in?

I agree - I wouldn’t want to be the one(s) making all the decisions right now.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

catz4m8z said:


> or it burns itself out).


Music to my ears. That would be absolute bliss. 
In the meantime. Here I stay. Not ventured out for more than a dog walk to the same area since March. Thank goodness it's my favourite place.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Elles said:


> A few short weeks ago Exeter was listed as a city with zero cases, now it's one of the highest infected areas in the country and the highest in the south-west. University city, who'd have thought thousands of kids turning up and having parties and mingling in the pubs would have brought and spread Covid? I'm astonished, never would have guessed. Local kids going back to school would have been fine, trucking in party goers wasn't the brightest idea. Some of the kids have been suspended and sent home for refusing to follow the covid rules set by the university.


My son's company fitted the security system in the first of the new student accommodation phases. Completed a couple of weeks ago. 25 students have already tested positive since moving in. He's now on phase 2.


----------



## rona

I know I'm more at risk........but............as things stand at the moment, I'm glad I'm at this end of my time on earth.
I've always said that we had the best time to be young, I now think I was spot on.

I can't imagine what it's like to be young now............... even worse, bringing up a young family


----------



## rona

If you want to see the stats, look now. They are going to be fiddling it again at 5pm


----------



## catz4m8z

Mum2Heidi said:


> In the meantime. Here I stay. Not ventured out for more than a dog walk to the same area since March. Thank goodness it's my favourite place.


yup, its def on my mind too. Obviously I have to go to work (boo!) but other then walking the dogs I do now weigh up any visits to shops,etc. Can I buy things on line? or can I bulk buy something and cut my shopping trips down?
It must really suck if you usually see relatives alot and now cant though. Im lucky in that my family have always been more the phone type then the visit type (we get on but dont feel the need to do it in person!LOL). Although now xmas is coming up we will be visiting and I do worry what I might potentially bring to their door.


----------



## MilleD

We've had a local spike. Turns out it isn't in the general population...


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> New We've had a local spike. Turns out it isn't in the general population...


We've had two here, the first a pub and that was under control within a week. Now a school, a few more cases than last time but hopefully this one will become under control within a few days too.

OH was going to visit his father in Pembrokeshire this week but has put it off because of this local spike. Who knows when he'll be able to go again


----------



## Cully

I had my flu jab and pneumococcal vaccine yesterday and, quite frankly, feel like s*** today, mainly nausea.
I'm normally ok with flu jabs.
Anyone else had a similar reaction to either vaccines?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> I had my flu jab and pneumococcal vaccine yesterday and, quite frankly, feel like s*** today, mainly nausea.
> I'm normally ok with flu jabs.
> Anyone else had a similar reaction to either vaccines?


As far as I know feeling a bit of nausea for a couple of days afterwards is normal . It'll be your immune system responding to it, but not in a bad way.
My OHs parents had it done, his mum felt a bit rundown after and had a hot, sore arm where they gave her the jab but felt better after couple of days


----------



## Bisbow

Having mine this morning, it does not usually bother me and I am hoping this one is the same
I am getting my eyes tested tomorrow and do not want to feel bad
They need testing badly, I missed my last one because of lockdown and do not want toput itoff again


----------



## Bobbie

I'm also having an eye test next week don't really want to go but they have assured me things are in place to help keep everyone safe


----------



## Bisbow

I am going to Boots and our store has a large optical arear and are very reassuring about safety
I hope that is the case


----------



## kittih

Cully said:


> I had my flu jab and pneumococcal vaccine yesterday and, quite frankly, feel like s*** today, mainly nausea.
> I'm normally ok with flu jabs.
> Anyone else had a similar reaction to either vaccines?


Had mine on Wednesday lunchtime and felt fine all afternoon. However over night and all the next day I felt headachey and lots of muscle aches and pains and tired. Back to normal again now. I think side effects are normal.


----------



## Cully

kittih said:


> Had mine on Wednesday lunchtime and felt fine all afternoon. However over night and all the next day I felt headachey and lots of muscle aches and pains and tired. Back to normal again now. I think side effects are normal.


That's reassuring.


----------



## kittih

Cully said:


> That's reassuring.


The pharmacist only mentioned a sore arm but the NHS website also mentions temperature and muscle aches. I was told to take a paracetamol or ibuprofen to relieve it which helped me a lot.


----------



## Cully

kittih said:


> The pharmacist only mentioned a sore arm but the NHS website also mentions temperature and muscle aches. I was told to take a paracetamol or ibuprofen to relieve it which helped me a lot.


I'm going through bad abdo pain at the moment which I googled and it's common. I don't normally feel this bad. At least it should get better soon, hopefully by tomorrow.
Maybe it's because I had both vaccines so go a double dose of the egg.


----------



## kittih

Cully said:


> I'm going through bad abdo pain at the moment which I googled and it's common. I don't normally feel this bad. At least it should get better soon, hopefully by tomorrow.
> Maybe it's because I had both vaccines so go a double dose of the egg.


I suspect having double makes it worse. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> I'm going through bad abdo pain at the moment which I googled and it's common. I don't normally feel this bad. At least it should get better soon, hopefully by tomorrow.
> Maybe it's because I had both vaccines so go a double dose of the egg.


No that doesn't sound pleasant! It's one thing knowing it's a side effect, but not nice to experience! Hope you're feeling better by tomorrow


----------



## Magic Waves

Well i've had an appointment come to see my rheumatologist next month and i don't fancy that, i've hardly moved from the home since march besides being on chemo meds and having low immune system and the hospital as got covid in it besides patients who have died, i feel like i'm putting myself at risk.

I had a blood test up there the other day and asked the nurse if they're being tested and she said no, so the goverment are throwing lies off.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Can you arrange a telephone consultation?


----------



## Psygon

I'm an outpatient for musculoskeletal and was due an appointment in the middle of the first wave. In the end I had a short phone consultation to check things were ok and also reassurance that I knew how to get in touch with my consultant should things change. Much better than having to go into the hospital (which I really didn't want to do!). So might be worth seeing if they will do telephone consultation!


----------



## Jaf

Quarantine loophole, apparently if you are a haulage business then you don’t have to quarantine in the UK or Spain. The B & B/ cafe in my local village also drives back and forth to the UK with a van and so are exempt from quarantine. Along with his wife and small child that both travel with him!

These are the same people that had 16 children in their B & B common room, no social distancing or masks as they don’t think Coronavirus is a problem.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> Quarantine loophole, apparently if you are a haulage business then you don't have to quarantine in the UK or Spain. The B & B/ cafe in my local village also drives back and forth to the UK with a van and so are exempt from quarantine. Along with his wife and small child that both travel with him!
> 
> These are the same people that had 16 children in their B & B common room, no social distancing or masks as they don't think Coronavirus is a problem.


I think you'll find that in EU countries intercontinental truck drivers are exempt from the 14 day quarantine which is logical because how otherwise would goods get delivered from one country to another?

A friend of mine had a pet removal company bring his dog from the UK to Hungary and they were also exempt from quarantine in both countries.


----------



## Jaf

Sure, sure delivery companies are very important and need an exemption. But hopefully they’re not all bringing their families with them and having holidays. That’s what I mean about a “loophole”.

And the same people then mixing un-related families with no precautions.

At least I know who they are and can avoid them even more than I generally avoid people during this pandemic.


----------



## Magic Waves

Lurcherlad said:


> Can you arrange a telephone consultation?


Well now it's been mentioned i will ring as we've come in stronger lock down here, the doctor phoned in may when i was down the doctors having my b12 jab, he left a message saying he would ring the same day the following week, i was in but no phone call but i shall be ringing them tomorrow.


----------



## Guest

Cully said:


> I had my flu jab and pneumococcal vaccine yesterday and, quite frankly, feel like s*** today, mainly nausea.
> I'm normally ok with flu jabs.
> Anyone else had a similar reaction to either vaccines?


I had my flu jab two weeks ago now and my arm was sore for two days day. Two days after the jab it felt like I had a head cold, my nose felt stuffy and I felt awful for 4 days afterwards, then I was ok.


----------



## Magyarmum

They aren't starting giving flu jabs until the 20th October here in Hungary. Can't remember exactly but I think we have a mobile clinic come round each village and you're notified beforehand on date and time.


----------



## Calvine

Bobbie said:


> I'm also having an eye test next week don't really want to go but they have assured me things are in place to help keep everyone safe


 I had mine done straight after the lockdown and it was fine; until I got the bill, that is. :Jawdrop


----------



## Calvine

Bisbow said:


> I am going to Boots and our store has a large optical arear and are very reassuring about safety
> I hope that is the case


 I went to Boots and it was all very safe and reassuring.


----------



## Bisbow

Calvine said:


> I had mine done straight after the lockdown and it was fine; until I got the bill, that is. :Jawdrop


Eyes tested, new glasses chosen, all went well
Untill I paid the bill; I am still recovering from the shock


----------



## Siskin

I phoned up the hairdresser today thinking it would be a good idea to get a cut in case another lockdown happens. The lady I spoke to said that my hairdresser had visited her sister over the weekend for a few hours and has just heard that her nephew has been showing symptoms of covid and has taken the test. As he lives with his mum, although he wasn’t there at the time, it’s likely that his mum is infected too. So my hairdresser is off work until the results of her nephews test back. I made an appointment and will be phoned if the test is positive so I can arrange to have a different stylist.


----------



## HarlequinCat

We are going to start with a three tier system, with each area having separate levels of risk. My family up in Merseyside are in the very high risk area. (I havent seen them for a year and won't be able to see them for Christmas).

Some critics are saying we should have a 2 week circuit breaker, with a full lockdown. Though I dont know if that would have meant schools and universities would close too.

Here the cases have slowly crept up, though nowhere near as high as most areas. So here I think that would be over the top. A lot of people probably won't stick to another lockdown too.

Not to mention, if the whole country gets shut down again who knows how many more jobs will be lost. My sister works at a museum and so many people are losing their jobs there, some of which had worked there for over 20 years!


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm in favor of a short "circuit break" just for a few weeks it would be much better than another lockdown.

If we have one now for a few weeks, may we we be able to have a slight more normal Christmas instead of things going badly wrong and having a complete lockdown over the Christmas season.


----------



## Magic Waves

rawpawsrus said:


> I had my flu jab two weeks ago now and my arm was sore for two days day. Two days after the jab it felt like I had a head cold, my nose felt stuffy and I felt awful for 4 days afterwards, then I was ok.


I've totally refused the flu jab, as the last time i had it 2yrs ago as the doctors call me in as soon as the jabs come out, i had the jab had flu symptoms like yourself and my husband caught it, we was continuously bad from the october right through till march, i spoke with the nurse about it and she said you always get a reaction from it but every year they change it slightly and another reason i've refused is if this covid gets so bad how will we know if it's a cold or covid.


----------



## Blackadder

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm in favor of a short "circuit break" just for a few weeks


IMO all that does is prolong the "crisis"
How long do we keep this cycle of lockdown, release, lockdown going..... 6 months, 12 months, longer?
The virus is here &, absent an effective vaccine (might never happen), it's not going anywhere!


----------



## Guest

I am not a fan of the new tier system, in my opinion we should go back into a full temporary lockdown with proper financial aid for businesses until the R number reduces across the UK again and the virus is under control again. I think it was a mistake opening everything so quickly after the first wave. Proper financial aid needs to be in place though.


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> I am not a fan of the new tier system, in my opinion we should go back into a full temporary lockdown with proper financial aid for businesses until the R number reduces across the UK again and the virus is under control again. I think it was a mistake opening everything so quickly after the first wave. Proper financial aid needs to be in place though.


The country cannot afford that.


----------



## MilleD

Magic Waves said:


> I've totally refused the flu jab, as the last time i had it 2yrs ago as the doctors call me in as soon as the jabs come out, i had the jab had flu symptoms like yourself and my husband caught it, we was continuously bad from the october right through till march, i spoke with the nurse about it and she said you always get a reaction from it but every year they change it slightly and another reason i've refused is if this covid gets so bad how will we know if it's a cold or covid.


The jab is inert isn't it? If you were ill, then it's most likely it was something else.

Flu is not a cold.

Covid is not a cold, you don't even get sneezing symptoms according to most accounts.

Edit to add, the reason I am getting my flu jab tomorrow is that I don't want to catch flu (which I've never had and I imagine some people who say they have had it haven't either) and be immunocompromised and then get Covid. No thanks. Anything I can do to fend anything off at the moment I will do.


----------



## Guest

MilleD said:


> The country cannot afford that.


The UK couldn't afford going into lockdown the first time. The majority of the UK's major cities will be in tier 2 or 3 within the coming weeks. Already they are holding a gold command meeting tomorrow to discuss moving Greater Manchester and Lancashire into Tier 3 due to the high level of cases and hospital admissions. The mayor of London reckons it won't be long before London is moved into Tier 2. That didn't take long for this to happen.


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> The UK couldn't afford going into lockdown the first time. The majority of the UK's major cities will be in tier 2 or 3 within the coming weeks. Already they are holding a gold command meeting tomorrow to discuss moving Greater Manchester and Lancashire into Tier 3 due to the high level of cases and hospital admissions. The mayor of London reckons it won't be long before London is moved into Tier 2. That didn't take long for this to happen.


And yet you want to go back into lockdown??

And the cities would not be going into the higher tiers if people just followed the rules, but people seem to think they are above it.


----------



## Magic Waves

MilleD said:


> The jab is inert isn't it? If you were ill, then it's most likely it was something else.
> 
> Flu is not a cold.
> 
> Covid is not a cold, you don't even get sneezing symptoms according to most accounts.


Well we say flu here although it's a cold sorry but the injection gives off the side affects of a cold..runny nose, hotness and i really should have explained myself better regarding those two symptoms being the same as covid.

When the covid started it was said also by doctors on the tele that colds was also going about a lot.


----------



## MilleD

Magic Waves said:


> Well we say flu here although it's a cold sorry but the injection gives off the side affects of a cold..runny nose, hotness and i really should have explained myself better regarding those two symptoms being the same as covid.
> 
> When the covid started it was said also by doctors on the tele that colds was also going about a lot.


If you can get a flu jab to protect you whilst covid is about, then I'd get one. Influenza kills, colds don't.


----------



## Magic Waves

MilleD said:


> people seem to think they are above it.


Well said on that point because where i live there's neighbours still meeting up outdoors just before the weather went a bit colder sitting in chairs next to one another and nobody is wearing masks.


----------



## Magic Waves

MilleD said:


> If you can get a flu jab to protect you whilst covid is about, then I'd get one. Influenza kills, colds don't.


Well i've got my B12 towards the end of this month and if i say i'll have it, they'll soon administer it for me.


----------



## MilleD

Magic Waves said:


> Well said on that point because where i live there's neighbours still meeting up outdoors just before the weather went a bit colder sitting in chairs next to one another and nobody is wearing masks.


I'm making myself very unpopular commenting on people's FB photos. I don't care though, people seem to be incapable of following a simple instruction, drives me mad.


----------



## Guest

MilleD said:


> And yet you want to go back into lockdown??
> 
> And the cities would not be going into the higher tiers if people just followed the rules, but people seem to think they are above it.


They should have never reopened colleges and universities, people there have been throwing threshers parties etc (they should have continued remote teaching) and then we see scenes like Liverpool, people queing to get into pubs not social distancing and in Manchester Trafford Centre not wearing masks or social distancing. In the town I live in social distancing stopped after the first lockdown ended and I feel the odd one out wearing a face mask everywhere. I do keep social distancing myself and wear my face mask everywhere outside my home. Like other countries the UK should make it compulsory to wear a face mask outside your home, in public. People are acting across the UK as if the rules do not apply to them and as if the virus does not exist not just in cities but also in towns and villages etc. I agree with another short term national lockdown.


----------



## Magic Waves

MilleD said:


> I'm making myself very unpopular commenting on people's FB photos. I don't care though, people seem to be incapable of following a simple instruction, drives me mad.


Well to me it's a serious thing and people are acting stupid in behaviour and me and my husband have not allowed no one in here since March and when my husband goes out he wears a mask and throw away gloves, i think he'll keep doing it if the covid does ease as it's become a permanent fixture 

You know the saying the truth hurts and your just expressing the truth on FB


----------



## ForestWomble

Maybe, rather than a complete lockdown, there should be a No non-essential travel rule or something. Everyone stays within their county?


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> They should have never reopened colleges and universities, people there have been throwing threshers parties etc (they should have continued remote teaching) and then we see scenes like Liverpool, people queing to get into pubs not social distancing and in Manchester Trafford Centre not wearing masks or social distancing. In the town I live in social distancing stopped after the first lockdown ended and I feel the odd one out wearing a face mask everywhere. I do keep social distancing myself and wear my face mask everywhere outside my home. Like other countries the UK should make it compulsory to wear a face mask outside your home, in public. People are acting across the UK as if the rules do not apply to them and as if the virus does not exist not just in cities but also in towns and villages etc. I agree with another short term national lockdown.


But the thing is, they could have opened the colleges and unis and people didn't have to throw the bloody parties....or the idiots in Liverpool dancing in the streets because, god forbid, the pubs shut an hour early (something I don't agree with but wouldn't take the pee like they did).

I don't agree with another lockdown, the economy will crumble. People need to follow the rules.


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> Maybe, rather than a complete lockdown, there should be a No non-essential travel rule or something. Everyone stays within their county?


How do you police that though? The world and his wife currently has a mask "exemption", that world and his wife will probably also have a "reason" they can travel.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> How do you police that though?


You start by actually policing it and not using the excuse that people kick off as a reason to not police it.
Other countries have managed to police mask use AND limit travel


----------



## rona

ForestWomble said:


> Maybe, rather than a complete lockdown, there should be a No non-essential travel rule or something. Everyone stays within their county?


Oh they couldn't do that again. Too many politicians would get caught out travelling to their country piles.
They can't afford another Cummings incident


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> You start by actually policing it and not using the excuse that people kick off as a reason to not police it.
> Other countries have managed to police mask use AND limit travel


Maybe in countries where the police actually have teeth.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> You start by actually policing it and not using the excuse that people kick off as a reason to not police it.
> Other countries have managed to police mask use AND limit travel


In Hungary wearing masks is mandatory in shopping malls, shops, vets pubs,public buildings etc and on all public transport and can result in a fine which is enforced by the police and bus/train inspectors etc. At my local Spar the security guard won't allow you in if you're not wearing a mask, and generally speaking most people comply with the law. All shops are open but pubs and restaurants must close by 11 pm. The borders are closed to travellers with the exception of the V4 countries. You can only enter Hungary if you have a valid reason for doing so, and 2 tests proving you're virus free, immediately before you travel other wise you're quarantined for 10 days on arrival, which entails being checked daily by the police.

The number of infections have increased but not to the extent that other countries, particularly the surrounding countries have done. It went up from a couple of hundred to about 1000 a day but seems to have levelled off over the past week.

.


----------



## Guest

I cannot believe what people done last night in Liverpool, dancing in the streets and the police had to disperse large crowds of people. People are dying from this disease and these people don't seem to care.


----------



## Guest

I see Northern Ireland is set to impose a circuit breaker lockdown for 4 weeks from the 19th October.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> I cannot believe what people done last night in Liverpool, dancing in the streets and the police had to disperse large crowds of people. People are dying from this disease and these people don't seem to care.


Just seen that, unbelievable that they can be so stupid.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> IMO all that does is prolong the "crisis"
> How long do we keep this cycle of lockdown, release, lockdown going..... 6 months, 12 months, longer?
> The virus is here &, absent an effective vaccine (might never happen), it's not going anywhere!


Maybe until everyone follows the rules?

Tbh I think the Lockdowns are perhaps to drum it into people that not observing the rules is the biggest problem for spreading the virus.

Had everyone done so from March (and used their own common sense too) then we might be in a better position now.

Pubs in our local area are now enforcing SD rules because they fear they really will now face fines/trouble if they don't. During the summer they absolutely were not and were rammed!

Our local Council is one of several in Essex actually asking to go into Lockdown in an effort to stem the rising spread.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> Maybe in countries where the police actually have teeth.


The police are perfectly capable of upholding the law in the UK...granted we could do with more (shouldn't have cut the numbers in the first place) but that's no excuse for not upholding the law - their job!

@Magyarmum has shown that it is perfectly possible to police IF the powers that be actually wanted to police it!
Threatening fines does Jack...actually getting out there and stopping people from not wearing masks or visors (unless exempt for a genuine reason and not because you found something on the list that "could" could apply) and travelling all over the country for a holiday (when many of us haven't even been able to see family during this) is not essential and only adds to the spread.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Oh they couldn't do that again. Too many politicians would get caught out travelling to their country piles.
> They can't afford another Cummings incident


Tbh it's possible to travel within the UK whilst still observing the current rules.

We're away at the moment in a self catering lodge.

We only drove an hour from home, but had we had a long journey I'm sure we could have managed while observing the rules and limited our interactions.

We're still adhering to the rules whilst out and about in the area too.


----------



## Bisbow

rawpawsrus said:


> I cannot believe what people done last night in Liverpool, dancing in the streets and the police had to disperse large crowds of people. People are dying from this disease and these people don't seem to care.


I think the trouble is people o not know what self discipline is these days and do what they want
Remember when we were told too much discipline is bad for children's mental health,
I do and did not believe it then and now we are paying for it


----------



## Happy Paws2

Unless people start to follow the rules and stop been selfish we will be going in and out of some type of lockdown for months maybe a years and we can forget about Christmas this year, the way things are going, not that, that would both me.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> The police are perfectly capable of upholding the law in the UK...granted we could do with more (shouldn't have cut the numbers in the first place) but that's no excuse for not upholding the law - their job!
> 
> @Magyarmum has shown that it is perfectly possible to police IF the powers that be actually wanted to police it!
> Threatening fines does Jack...actually getting out there and stopping people from not wearing masks or visors (unless exempt for a genuine reason and not because you found something on the list that "could" could apply) and travelling all over the country for a holiday (when many of us haven't even been able to see family during this) is not essential and only adds to the spread.


This is the latest report from the Hungarian Government about enforcing the compulsory wearing of masks. It's not perfect because there are always people who flout the rules, but at least it acts as a deterrent to most of the population which is small compared to the UK at slightly fewer than 10 million people..

https://www.kormany.hu/en/news/driv...velling-without-face-masks-to-observe-the-law

*Driver, too, is required to call on passengers travelling without face masks to observe the law*


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> The police are perfectly capable of upholding the law in the UK...granted we could do with more (shouldn't have cut the numbers in the first place) but that's no excuse for not upholding the law - their job!
> 
> @Magyarmum has shown that it is perfectly possible to police IF the powers that be actually wanted to police it!
> Threatening fines does Jack...actually getting out there and stopping people from not wearing masks or visors (unless exempt for a genuine reason and not because you found something on the list that "could" could apply) and travelling all over the country for a holiday (when many of us haven't even been able to see family during this) is not essential and only adds to the spread.


How can they uphold the law when it's against a persons human rights to ask for proof of exemption for mask wearing? They have absolutely no chance.

We will have to agree to disagree here, there are too many namby pamby do gooders in this country waiting to jump on the human rights or ism bandwagons to get away with things.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh it's possible to travel within the UK whilst still observing the current rules.
> 
> .


But not if we have another proper lockdown, which is what is being suggested.


----------



## rona

I think mixing the young is an excellent idea, they won't be contained anyway and many don't care a jot for oldies (I didn't when I was young) don't think of consequences and the young have always flouted rules. It's just the nature of the beast. 
We were all young once, Put yourself in their shoes. 

The best thing to do to get this run through is protect the old and vulnerable for a month or so and let everyone else live a normal life.

Herd immunity if you like, otherwise this is going to drag on for years, maybe even decades


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> How can they uphold the law when it's against a persons human rights to ask for proof of exemption for mask wearing? They have absolutely no chance.
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree here, there are too many namby pamby do gooders in this country waiting to jump on the human rights or ism bandwagons to get away with things.


It is not against human rights for the police to request someone produces their driving licence
It is not against human rights for the police to stop and search people while requesting their details
It is not against human rights to ask someone to produce their blue badge
It is not against human rights for a shop owner to refuse entry to ANYONE they choose (so long as no discrimination laws are broken of course)

So why on earth is it against someone's human rights to ask them to have a valid exemption certificate?
Saying that a small minority might get their knickers in a twist isn't a valid reason...but even if it were, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least try...I'm sorry but until someone gives me a valid reason as to why we can't actually police mask wearing and stopping people travelling all over the country (MP's included) other than "It might upset a few people" or "yeah but violence" then I'll continue to say that we can police this if we wanted too.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> It is not against human rights for the police to request someone produces their driving licence
> It is not against human rights for the police to stop and search people while requesting their details
> It is not against human rights to ask someone to produce their blue badge
> It is not against human rights for a shop owner to refuse entry to ANYONE they choose (so long as no discrimination laws are broken of course)
> 
> So why on earth is it against someone's human rights to ask them to have a valid exemption certificate?
> Saying that a small minority might get their knickers in a twist isn't a valid reason...but even if it were, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least try...I'm sorry but until someone gives me a valid reason as to why we can't actually police mask wearing and stopping people travelling all over the country (MP's included) other than "It might upset a few people" or "yeah but violence" then I'll continue to say that we can police this if we wanted too.


Why are you so aggressive?

It's on the Gov.uk website that a person does not need to provide proof of exemption. So how do you police it?


----------



## StormyThai

I'm not aggressive??
Confused about how it's against someones human rights to ask why they can't follow a law, but not aggressive.

The government could sort that out if they wanted to...the fact is that they don't.


I'm sorry if I have upset you in any way because that was not my intention


----------



## Bisbow

IMO it should be a law to prove you don't need to wear a mask
It can always be revoked when (and if) it is all over


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> I'm not aggressive??
> Confused about how it's against someones human rights to ask why they can't follow a law, but not aggressive.
> 
> The government could sort that out if they wanted to...the fact is that they don't.
> 
> I'm sorry if I have upset you in any way because that was not my intention


I'm not upset, I was just surprised at what seemed like quite a rant.

The point I was trying to make is that the police in this country do not have the power to enforce and you were arguing they did.

Saying that the government needs to sort it out is a bit of a moot point as it's obvious what needs to change, but until it becomes law to have to prove an exemption, the police have no power to force anyone to wear one.

I'm as frustrated as you with it all, it should be mandatory unless proven otherwise, but that isn't where we are.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> But not if we have another proper lockdown, which is what is being suggested.


No, of course, but again, if people had followed the rules and been sensible after the first Lockdown was eased we might not be facing another.


----------



## StormyThai

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53498100

Turns out the police do have that power after all 
Which is what I was trying to say...mask wearing is in law now, the police are their to uphold laws...soooo


----------



## Summercat

From the blurb @MilleD provided, it seems pretty easy to avoid wearing a mask, whether one has a real need not to or one just does not feel like wearing a mask.

The police currently, would be pretty helpless to enforce anything in the UK with regards to mask wearing, according to the advice given and asking can be dangerous water.

(If the blurb is off a government website vs a BBC article about shaming people, then it seems it has evolved to people not needing to produce proof of anything. Are people consistently wearing masks in shops at the moment in the UK? The BBC article is from July and I am assuming the blurb is current government advice.)


----------



## Lurcherlad

Bisbow said:


> IMO it should be a law to prove you don't need to wear a mask
> It can always be revoked when (and if) it is all over


Trouble is, I think, the production of a worthwhile exemption card would probably involve too much work/cost for the authorities.

Much like the Prescription Charge Exemption scheme, it takes a certain amount of admin/cost to produce the card.

The ones people are using now, I believe, they can download themselves so they're basically meaningless imo.

They rely on peoples' better nature and honesty..... good luck with that!


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53498100
> 
> Turns out the police do have that power after all
> Which is what I was trying to say...mask wearing is in law now, the police are their to uphold laws...soooo


No, they don't.... 

Scenario:

Policeman:"You should be wearing a mask"
Person:"I have anxiety"
Policeman:"ok then".

Soooooo nothing unfortunately :Sorry


----------



## MilleD

Summercat said:


> From the blurb @MilleD provided, it seems pretty easy to avoid wearing a mask, whether one has a real need not to or one just does not feel like wearing a mask.
> 
> The police currently, would be pretty helpless to enforce anything in the UK with regards to mask wearing, according to the advice given and asking can be dangerous water.
> 
> (If the blurb is off a government website vs a BBC article about shaming people, then it seems it has evolved to people not needing to produce proof of anything. Are people consistently wearing masks in shops at the moment in the UK? The BBC article is from July and I am assuming the blurb is current government advice.)


The blurb is government advice.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi... person needs to seek,to wear a face covering.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Trouble is, I think, the production of a worthwhile exemption card would probably involve too much work/cost for the authorities.
> 
> Much like the Prescription Charge Exemption scheme, it takes a certain amount of admin/cost to produce the card.
> 
> The ones people are using now, I believe, they can download themselves so they're basically meaningless imo.
> 
> They rely on peoples' better nature and honesty..... good luck with that!


Surely in the circumstance we are in, a letter from a Doctor would do.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> No, they don't....
> 
> Scenario:
> 
> Policeman:"You should be wearing a mask"
> Person:"I have anxiety"
> Policeman:"ok then".
> 
> Soooooo nothing unfortunately :Sorry


Scenario:
Shopworker: Hello can we request a police officer please as someone is out of control after being asked to wear a mask. (remembering that a shop worker is entitled to refuse entry to anyone without a reason)
Police: Of course we will, as soon as an officer is free

Police turn up and either calm things down or arrest the person for breaching the peace or assault and then slap on a fine for not wearing a mask.

If you read the article it says that the police won't be attending until the incident gets violent so they are fully capable of arresting someone for assault without asking for an exemption certificate 

Policing actual mask wearing won't happen until/unless this government get their fingers out of their backside, but that won't happen because they don't have the right priorities.

Anyway, I'm out now I just wanted to say again that we can police face mask wearing *if *we wanted to


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Scenario:
> Shopworker: Hello can we request a police officer please as someone is out of control after being asked to wear a mask. (remembering that a shop worker is entitled to refuse entry to anyone without a reason)
> Police: Of course we will, as soon as an officer is free
> 
> Police turn up and either calm things down or arrest the person for breaching the peace or assault and then slap on a fine for not wearing a mask.
> 
> If you read the article it says that the police won't be attending until the incident gets violent so they are fully capable of arresting someone for assault without asking for an exemption certificate
> 
> Policing actual mask wearing won't happen until/unless this government get their fingers out of their backside, but that won't happen because they don't have the right priorities.
> 
> Anyway, I'm out now I just wanted to say again that we can police face mask wearing *if *we wanted to


They don't need to be out of control or breaching the peace. If they are, then the police have powers under different laws. Just refusing to wear a mask and saying you are exempt is fully within the law as you are under no burden of proof.


----------



## SbanR

Summercat said:


> Are people consistently wearing masks in shops at the moment in the UK? T


In my little town, they are.
However! Quite a few have their masks Under their nose, and a minority wear a chin mask.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Surely in the circumstance we are in, a letter from a Doctor would do.


But have doctors got the time - how many patients qualify?

That's why I say there's no easy, quick solution.


----------



## Magyarmum

Last Wednesday I had to drive to my nearest city to take the boys to the vet. On the way I called into the hypermarket to go to the loo. All but a couple of people were wearing masks - correctly. Several people waiting to see the vet, all wearing masks as were the vets and nurses. On the way back home did some shopping in my local Spar, where everyone including the staff were wearing masks as they should be worn!


----------



## HarlequinCat

I remember when it first started and police were trying to enforce the rules but a lot of people were upset because they thought the police were being "heavy handed" this was even at the start when scientists didn't know much but the public were worried.
Even then the public were worried too about their personal freedom being taken away.
So I think now police are cautious because of the early backlash

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...gland-coronavirus-lockdown-police-enforcement


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> But have doctors got the time - how many patients qualify?
> 
> That's why I say there's no easy, quick solution.


They have enough staff floating around in reception that could sort it out if you get in touch saying you need one, they can print it off and all the doctors will need to do is sign a few at a time.


----------



## Siskin

Trouble is there are far too many people who whine and complain and go on about their human rights over anything that they are asked or told to do so that nothing happens. The government is a bit too worried about upsetting people and is trying to the least they can particularly as the national debt is rising to sky high proportions. It wouldn’t matter which government was in power there would be a whole load of moaners and whiners complaining that it’s not fair over any decision made

Basically the government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t.

I recall at the beginning of the pandemic everyone was going on and on about having a lockdown like other countries, three weeks or so after lockdown people were going on and on about stopping lockdown as they wanted to go out and enjoy themselves.

I suspect the reason of more civil obedience in Hungary is that the people are more used to obeying their Russian overloads in times past without argument. People who dissented had a habit of vanishing without trace


----------



## ForestWomble

MilleD said:


> How do you police that though? The world and his wife currently has a mask "exemption", that world and his wife will probably also have a "reason" they can travel.


Bit late to the party, but as this was addressed to me I didn't want to appear rude and not answer ....... The simple answer is I haven't a clue how it would be policed, as @StormyThai mentioned below (or should I say above?) though, other countries have managed it so I know its possible.
I'm just glad I don't have to be the one to work these things out!



Happy Paws2 said:


> Unless people start to follow the rules and stop been selfish we will be going in and out of some type of lockdown for months maybe a years and we can forget about Christmas this year, the way things are going, not that, that would both me.


Exactly, this crisis has, I have to admit, made me feel embarrassed to be English, other countries have dealt with the crisis so much better, yet here people can't follow simple rules, so many selfish people who can't be bothered to think about others, if travelling (both within the country and travelling to other countries) hadn't been allowed so soon after complete lockdown, and if people had done as asked at the beginning, maybe we'd be in a better position now, as it is, I fear 2021 might be a repeat of this year.

As for Christmas, it is certainly not going to be 'normal', I don't know what my family is going to do yet, but I'm preparing in my mind for a quiet Christmas, I'm not going to bother with the normal decorations, might make some though so I have something, just doesn't feel right for some reason to get out the normal decs.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Siskin said:


> Trouble is there are far too many people who whine and complain and go on about their human rights over anything that they are asked or told to do so that nothing happens. The government is a bit too worried about upsetting people and is trying to the least they can particularly as the national debt is rising to sky high proportions. It wouldn't matter which government was in power there would be a whole load of moaners and whiners complaining that it's not fair over any decision made
> 
> Basically the government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.
> 
> I recall at the beginning of the pandemic everyone was going on and on about having a lockdown like other countries, three weeks or so after lockdown people were going on and on about stopping lockdown as they wanted to go out and enjoy themselves.
> 
> I suspect the reason of more civil obedience in Hungary is that the people are more used to obeying their Russian overloads in times past without argument. People who dissented had a habit of vanishing without trace


That sounds about right to be honest. Whatever our government do, its always going to be wrong in some peoples view. It is very unusual circumstances and there is no way of knowing for definite what is best in the long run.

Hungary is a different country with different attitudes to government etc


----------



## HarlequinCat

ForestWomble said:


> As for Christmas, it is certainly not going to be 'normal', I don't know what my family is going to do yet, but I'm preparing in my mind for a quiet Christmas, I'm not going to bother with the normal decorations, might make some though so I have something, just doesn't feel right for some reason to get out the normal decs.


Oh Christmas I will still decorate and light the advent candle and celebrate. I think we need something that makes a difference to the regular days so far!

I'll miss family that I won't be able to see. I've only missed one Christmas before and I know its important for mum, but can't risk passing anything to her. OH parents aren't big into Christmas but I'm going to make the best of it.

Why not set up facetime for Christmas so on Christmas day when you would usually see them you could have that running? Have a meal and sit down with them on a screen?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Trouble is there are far too many people who whine and complain and go on about their human rights over anything that they are asked or told to do so that nothing happens. The government is a bit too worried about upsetting people and is trying to the least they can particularly as the national debt is rising to sky high proportions. It wouldn't matter which government was in power there would be a whole load of moaners and whiners complaining that it's not fair over any decision made
> 
> Basically the government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.
> 
> I recall at the beginning of the pandemic everyone was going on and on about having a lockdown like other countries, three weeks or so after lockdown people were going on and on about stopping lockdown as they wanted to go out and enjoy themselves.
> 
> I suspect the reason of more civil obedience in Hungary is that the people are more used to obeying their Russian overloads in times past without argument. People who dissented had a habit of vanishing without trace


Absolutely - all the above.

The pictures showing the yobs in Liverpool attacking the Police last night were disgusting - shameful


----------



## Magyarmum

@ Siskin said ..

*I suspect the reason of more civil obedience in Hungary is that the people are more used to obeying their Russian overloads in times past without argument. People who dissented had a habit of vanishing without trace"*

Whilst that is undoubtedly a factor why the older generation are more compliant, albeit the Russians vacated the country nearly 30 years ago, it's not the only reason.

Unlike the UK the Hungarian Government right from the start has kept the population well informed with clear cut guidelines and rules, from which they haven't varied much. Also local Mayors (every village no matter how tiny, has one) have to a certain extent been allowed to use their discretion and make their own rules.

Again unlike the UK, many households are multi generational. It's not unusual for parents children and grand parents to occupy the same house. The government has placed great emphasis on protecting the elderly but unlike the UK never recommended family not visiting or caring for them. I think because the younger generation generally speaking, have been brought up in closer contact with grandparents than many of their UK counterparts, they're more aware that their own behaviour could have serious consequences for people they love.

Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> Oh Christmas I will still decorate and light the advent candle and celebrate. I think we need something that makes a difference to the regular days so far!
> 
> I'll miss family that I won't be able to see. I've only missed one Christmas before and I know its important for mum, but can't risk passing anything to her. OH parents aren't big into Christmas but I'm going to make the best of it.
> 
> Why not set up facetime for Christmas so on Christmas day when you would usually see them you could have that running? Have a meal and sit down with them on a screen?


Oh yes, We certainly need something to celebrate!

I will still celebrate Christmas, doing Secret Santa for Bungo, I'm buying presents as normal, as I mentioned above I'll probably make a few paper decorations so I have something, and I'd love a candle (if I can find a non scented one), but not only does it just feel slightly weird(?) to me this year, all my decs are in the loft, so I need Dads help, so part of it for me is even if I can see my parents to get everything down, will I still be able to see them to put everything back, or will I still have the tree up come March? :Wacky

Thats a good idea re facetime, we've never done anything like that before, in fact it was for an appointment during lockdown that I did my very first online 'face on screen' thing, wasn't as weird or awkward as I thought it might be, so yes, certainly worth looking into that. :Happy


----------



## Magyarmum

I haven't seen my son and DIL since a year last May. My Grandson's still in New Zealand and is probably better off there than in the UK. My Granddaughter who I haven't seen since last December was supposed to come over in July when we were going off on holiday which naturally had to be cancelled.

I've no idea when I'll see them again and there'll be just me and the Schnauzer boys for Christmas. I'll put up the decorations like I do every year and cook a special meal for Christmas Day and just generally chill out and enjoy myself as best I can!.


----------



## HarlequinCat

ForestWomble said:


> Oh yes, We certainly need something to celebrate!
> 
> I will still celebrate Christmas, doing Secret Santa for Bungo, I'm buying presents as normal, as I mentioned above I'll probably make a few paper decorations so I have something, and I'd love a candle (if I can find a non scented one), but not only does it just feel slightly weird(?) to me this year, all my decs are in the loft, so I need Dads help, so part of it for me is even if I can see my parents to get everything down, will I still be able to see them to put everything back, or will I still have the tree up come March? :Wacky
> 
> Thats a good idea re facetime, we've never done anything like that before, in fact it was for an appointment during lockdown that I did my very first online 'face on screen' thing, wasn't as weird or awkward as I thought it might be, so yes, certainly worth looking into that. :Happy


That would make it awkward, since we don't know if or when there's a lockdown again! It would be a bit strange having all the decs out until March etc.

Theres some nice crafty Christmas stuff at hobbycraft at the moment too :Happy. I often pic up a thing or 2 from there every year.

Its good to have technology to be able to do that now, and be good for a bit of normalcy, being able to facetime . Though you do get to see alot more underchin than ever before, if they are holding their device too low


----------



## Siskin

@Magyarmum You're right in what you say about the Hungarian people, they have a completely different attitude to British people particularly the younger generation, but there are lot of older people who seem just as careless of others.

Interesting that every village however small has a mayor, is that a paid employment or voluntary? I wonder how that would work in the UK as a concept. I can imagine a mayor in this village would be largely listened to and in the case of covid, obeyed, but I can think of other places where their would be open revolt


----------



## StormyThai

Magyarmum said:


> I haven't seen my son and DIL since a year last May. My Grandson's still in New Zealand and is probably better off there than in the UK. My Granddaughter who I haven't seen since last December was supposed to come over in July when we were going off on holiday which naturally had to be cancelled.
> 
> I've no idea when I'll see them again and there'll be just me and the Schnauzer boys for Christmas. I'll put up the decorations like I do every year and cook a special meal for Christmas Day and just generally chill out and enjoy myself as best I can!.


I was supposed to be spending my first Christmas with my dad this year...it's been planned for 2 years now.
However, with him back home in Cornwall and me several hundred miles away we have decided it's best to hold off 

It's sucks, but I will still put the tree up and enjoy watching Thai open his SS gifts.


----------



## Siskin

HarlequinCat said:


> That would make it awkward, since we don't know if or when there's a lockdown again! It would be a bit strange having all the decs out until March etc.
> 
> Theres some nice crafty Christmas stuff at hobbycraft at the moment too :Happy. I often pic up a thing or 2 from there every year.
> 
> Its good to have technology to be able to do that now, and be good for a bit of normalcy, being able to facetime . Though you do get to see alot more underchin than ever before, if they are holding their device too low


Someone in our village posed a question to see if there is an interest. He said that people with houses that face the village road could put up a Christmas scene in their window over the Christmas period, I guess a painting or collage or something. The idea is that a map will be shown on our social media group of participating households so that people can walk round the village and see the pictures. It's not his idea, he's seen it mentioned elsewhere. I would like to see examples of pictures or whatever to get some ideas. A lot of house including mine are quite high off the road which might make it a bit difficult to be seen. Nice idea though especially as I'm exercising my way round the village a lot at the moment.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Siskin said:


> Someone in our village posed a question to see if there is an interest. He said that people with houses that face the village road could put up a Christmas scene in their window over the Christmas period, I guess a painting or collage or something. The idea is that a map will be shown on our social media group of participating households so that people can walk round the village and see the pictures. It's not his idea, he's seen it mentioned elsewhere. I would like to see examples of pictures or whatever to get some ideas. A lot of house including mine are quite high off the road which might make it a bit difficult to be seen. Nice idea though especially as I'm exercising my way round the village a lot at the moment.


That sounds like a lovely idea, especially if most people in your village do it. Would make it very Christmassy. 
Be good if a lot of areas took up the idea


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> @Magyarmum You're right in what you say about the Hungarian people, they have a completely different attitude to British people particularly the younger generation, but there are lot of older people who seem just as careless of others.
> 
> Interesting that every village however small has a mayor, is that a paid employment or voluntary? I wonder how that would work in the UK as a concept. I can imagine a mayor in this village would be largely listened to and in the case of covid, obeyed, but I can think of other places where their would be open revolt


Mayors are paid but they usually have other occupations. Ours is one of the local farmers. There are only about 65 people living in the village most of whom have the same surname and are related either by birth or marriage. The family has lived here since the mid 15th century!

Although they can make decisions during the pandemic, a mayor's powers are limited in that they can't impose anything major such as a curfew. Only the Government can do that. If my village is typical, we were all given reusable masks and hand sanitiser, and us old ones were told to just ask if we needed shopping doing or if we wanted any help in the house. Mainly little things.


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Mayors are paid but they usually have other occupations. Ours is one of the local farmers. There are only about 65 people living in the village most of whom have the same surname and are related either by birth or marriage. The family has lived here since the mid 15th century!
> 
> Although they can make decisions during the pandemic, a mayor's powers are limited in that they can't impose anything major such as a curfew. Only the Government can do that. If my village is typical, we were all given reusable masks and hand sanitiser, and us old ones were told to just ask if we needed shopping doing or if we wanted any help in the house. Mainly little things.


Sounds good, I presume the masks and sanitiser came from the government for distribution. I recall you saying once that older people are given a load of wood each winter, that is really nice. 
My village has about 400 houses strung over about 2 miles, very disjointed and spread out. There's no central area with a village green, I suppose the pub, church and manor is the most central part, but that is a mile away from our house in the upper part of the village, we are categorised as the middle. Since the village social media page came about a few years ago (Nextdoor) there's been more cohesion amongst the whole village and things are found out about and discussed. Very handy when it snows and people need help. It really came into its fore during lockdown when the vulnerable people needed extra help with getting medical and food supplies. I guess that is the nearest we came to your village


----------



## tabelmabel

Sorry to hear about your plans not coming to fruition for christmas this year @StormyThai. It's just Depressville all round. Crappest year ever with no relief in sight. Good job Thai is there to add a little festive cheer.


----------



## rona

That's it then..............totally out of control again


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> That would make it awkward, since we don't know if or when there's a lockdown again! It would be a bit strange having all the decs out until March etc.
> 
> Theres some nice crafty Christmas stuff at hobbycraft at the moment too :Happy. I often pic up a thing or 2 from there every year.
> 
> Its good to have technology to be able to do that now, and be good for a bit of normalcy, being able to facetime . Though you do get to see alot more underchin than ever before, if they are holding their device too low


Ooo I like Hobbycraft, I used to go there with my Gran and she said I was dangerous to let loose as I have a few crafty things I enjoy doing and would get all excited about new things too lol. Think I'll have to see if I could get a little something to make for Christmas.

LOL, I'll have to discuss the idea with my parents as I think that would be a great way to have some normalcy.



Siskin said:


> Someone in our village posed a question to see if there is an interest. He said that people with houses that face the village road could put up a Christmas scene in their window over the Christmas period, I guess a painting or collage or something. The idea is that a map will be shown on our social media group of participating households so that people can walk round the village and see the pictures. It's not his idea, he's seen it mentioned elsewhere. I would like to see examples of pictures or whatever to get some ideas. A lot of house including mine are quite high off the road which might make it a bit difficult to be seen. Nice idea though especially as I'm exercising my way round the village a lot at the moment.


Where I am are doing a Halloween thing that's similar, anyone who wants to join in has been asked to put a pumpkin (drawn, painted or real) in the window, then children can walk around looking for pumpkins.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Someone in our village posed a question to see if there is an interest. He said that people with houses that face the village road could put up a Christmas scene in their window over the Christmas period, I guess a painting or collage or something. The idea is that a map will be shown on our social media group of participating households so that people can walk round the village and see the pictures. It's not his idea, he's seen it mentioned elsewhere. I would like to see examples of pictures or whatever to get some ideas. A lot of house including mine are quite high off the road which might make it a bit difficult to be seen. Nice idea though especially as I'm exercising my way round the village a lot at the moment.


I grew up a place called haughton near Stafford and they are having to go in the opposite direction. They have had "Haughton Christmas Lights" for a few years to do fundraising. They have had to ask people not to do their lights as normal because it draws thousands of people to the village.

It's such a shame as it's quite a thing round these parts.


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> Where I am are doing a Halloween thing that's similar, anyone who wants to join in has been asked to put a pumpkin (drawn, painted or real) in the window, then children can walk around looking for pumpkins.


I'm joining in with the one here
Last year I had over 150 children to my door, I even had children, of the children, who used to come 20yrs ago when we first moved there
I shall miss that this year
My pocket might not though


----------



## tabelmabel

mrs phas said:


> I had over 150 children to my door,




I dont think even the pied piper had that many did he?!


----------



## mrs phas

tabelmabel said:


> I dont think even the pied piper had that many did he?!


Last year I lived in the middle of a council estate, and had lived there for 20 years
Word gets around
Ps I only know because I bought 175 bags of sweets and almost ran out


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I grew up a place called haughton near Stafford and they are having to go in the opposite direction. They have had "Haughton Christmas Lights" for a few years to do fundraising. They have had to ask people not to do their lights as normal because it draws thousands of people to the village.
> 
> It's such a shame as it's quite a thing round these parts.


Very wise decision I reckon


----------



## HarlequinCat

ForestWomble said:


> Ooo I like Hobbycraft, I used to go there with my Gran and she said I was dangerous to let loose as I have a few crafty things I enjoy doing and would get all excited about new things too lol. Think I'll have to see if I could get a little something to make for Christmas.
> 
> LOL, I'll have to discuss the idea with my parents as I think that would be a great way to have some normalcy.
> 
> Where I am are doing a Halloween thing that's similar, anyone who wants to join in has been asked to put a pumpkin (drawn, painted or real) in the window, then children can walk around looking for pumpkins.


Oh yes I can drive OH mad by spending a lot of time looking at hobbycraft at all the art supplies and new craft ideas . You could see if there is something you could make for your gran too maybe


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> Oh yes I can drive OH mad by spending a lot of time looking at hobbycraft at all the art supplies and new craft ideas . You could see if there is something you could make for your gran too maybe


 
Yes, I will do.


----------



## Guest

The Queen and Prince William attended a Royal engagement today and didn't wear a face mask, OK the done the social distancing. This made me slightly angry as they are meant to be setting an example and the virus is bad at the moment. How does anyone else feel about this?


----------



## O2.0

We've been back in school since September 8, only one student case, and one teacher case. No spread. Direct contacts were notified and stayed home for 10 days, that was 3 weeks ago now. 

Colds and strep throat have been going around but only those 2 cases of Covid 19. Not sure what we're doing right or if the bottom is about to fall out, but I'll take it while it lasts.


----------



## Guest

In the USA the CDC lists more ymptoms related to covid-19 than we are being told about in the UK:- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html

Here is the list:-
People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:


Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea
This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.

Why here in the UK are we being told about 3 symptoms?


----------



## Bisbow

Since I had my flu jab last week I have had a runny nose and a sore throat
Hope she gave me the right jab


----------



## SbanR




----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> In the USA the CDC lists more ymptoms related to covid-19 than we are being told about in the UK:- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
> 
> Here is the list:-
> People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:
> 
> 
> Fever or chills
> Cough
> Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
> Fatigue
> Muscle or body aches
> Headache
> New loss of taste or smell
> Sore throat
> Congestion or runny nose
> Nausea or vomiting
> Diarrhea
> This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.
> 
> *Why here in the UK are we being told about 3 symptoms?*


Because it will only confuse people they can't understand simple rules.... like wear a mask and don't meet in group of more then 6.


----------



## Happy Paws2

sorry posted twice


----------



## kimthecat

London has been moved to Tier 2 . households can meet up outside but not more than 6 people. What I don't understand is if I can travel to the next county outside london which is level 1 but only a couple of miles away.


----------



## mrs phas

rawpawsrus said:


> In the USA the CDC lists more ymptoms related to covid-19 than we are being told about in the UK:- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
> 
> Here is the list:-
> People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:
> 
> 
> Fever or chills
> Cough
> Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
> Fatigue
> Muscle or body aches
> Headache
> New loss of taste or smell
> Sore throat
> Congestion or runny nose
> Nausea or vomiting
> Diarrhea
> This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.
> 
> Why here in the UK are we being told about 3 symptoms?


Because they're telling us about the 3 main symptoms attached purely to covid-19
Rather than muddling people even further by including symptoms that cover
Colds
Flu
Winter vomiting virus
Etc

The average self centred Joe Public would be trotting off to hospital and/or demanding tests that theres simply no need for, if they had a never ending list
Anyhow, Id rather believe UK health than American whose leader believes it's all a myth anyhow

As for your previous question re Queenie
Everyone who was to meet her had been tested and isolated for 48hrs before she arrived
And
She (and William) are great moral boosters, social distancing was adhered to and, at first, they were in the open air
So, there, you have my view on the visit
However
Personally I believe, at 94, she should be treated like bone china, and, William could've gone, alone, in lieu of her
But
You try telling her not to do something, she has a great reputation for doing just as she wishes


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> In the USA the CDC lists more ymptoms related to covid-19 than we are being told about in the UK:- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
> 
> Here is the list:-
> People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:
> 
> 
> Fever or chills
> Cough
> Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
> Fatigue
> Muscle or body aches
> Headache
> New loss of taste or smell
> Sore throat
> Congestion or runny nose
> Nausea or vomiting
> Diarrhea
> This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.
> 
> Why here in the UK are we being told about 3 symptoms?


Pretty sure they aren't just telling us about three symptoms.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> What I don't understand is if I can travel to the next county outside london which is level 1 but only a couple of miles away.


As far as I'm aware there are no resistrions on travel in england, although 'they' have said its preferred that tier 3 don't travel outside the area.
Also if you live in a tier 2 you shouldn't meet inside with people even if you travel to lower tier if that makes sense.

At this point though I think people just need to be sensible and not focus too much on what the differing rules are.


----------



## kimthecat

Arny said:


> As far as I'm aware there are no resistrions on travel in england, although 'they' have said its preferred that tier 3 don't travel outside the area.
> Also if you live in a tier 2 you shouldn't meet inside with people even if you travel to lower tier if that makes sense.
> 
> At this point though I think people just need to be sensible and not focus too much on what the differing rules are.


Thanks , that makes sense.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Arny said:


> As far as I'm aware there are no resistrions on travel in england, although 'they' have said its preferred that tier 3 don't travel outside the area.
> Also if you live in a tier 2 you shouldn't meet inside with people even if you travel to lower tier if that makes sense.
> 
> At this point though I think people just need to be sensible and not focus too much on what the differing rules are.


Indeed.

We ate out at a pub yesterday lunchtime but sat outside, under a canvas cover.

Despite the publican offering us a table inside (Jack was welcome too) we prefer to steer clear of indoor public spaces, except for the brief time required to order or use the loo (fully masked, SD, hand washing, sanitiser, etc.).


----------



## kittih

O2.0 said:


> We've been back in school since September 8, only one student case, and one teacher case. No spread. Direct contacts were notified and stayed home for 10 days, that was 3 weeks ago now.
> 
> Colds and strep throat have been going around but only those 2 cases of Covid 19. Not sure what we're doing right or if the bottom is about to fall out, but I'll take it while it lasts.


That's good news.  Hopefully it will stay low. Though it's a worry that people are getting colds as it shows they are not observing social distancing.

I have been avoiding people who come down with colds even once they recover as if their behaviours mean they can catch a cold they might also catch covid.


----------



## Happy Paws2

wrong thread


----------



## MilleD

kittih said:


> That's good news.  Hopefully it will stay low. Though it's a worry that people are getting colds as it shows they are not observing social distancing.
> 
> I have been avoiding people who come down with colds even once they recover as if their behaviours mean they can catch a cold they might also catch covid.


I was talking to my sister about that the other day, surely there should be a LOT less contagious diseases being passed around now?

What with the social distancing, mask wearing and squirting of hands with sanitiser?


----------



## tabelmabel

MilleD said:


> Pretty sure they aren't just telling us about three symptoms.


Tbf i think headaches has been communicated to us as a main symptom. It seems to be almost universal, from what i understand.

And we have been told what _aren't _symptoms like runny nose and sore throat.

People do get confused easily though - when the schools re opened in scotland, the testing service was overwhelmed with parents getting their kids tested for every sniffle. We all got a government letter via school telling us how to tell the common cold from covid!

Edited: spelling error


----------



## HarlequinCat

My OHs sister works in a shop and meets up with friends from multiple households with no social distancing, she posts pics on Facebook. But she doesn't seem to take it serious. 
Her and my OH got into a huge fight over it because we have been very cautious because we are having to stay with his parents at the moment and his mum is overweight with diabetes and is 70. We understand she wants to see her parents too but she and her kids don't distance from them enough. They go for walks or sit in the garden but there's no 2 meter distance. The kids often have their heads so close to their grandparents when they are sitting down. With cases increasing in this area it seems only a mater of time before they catch something and pass it on. 
She justifies it by saying she has a friend with type 1 diabetes that works in the shop and she isn't letting covid stop her, and doesn't know anyone else who is as cautious as us.

I'm not sure if we are being too cautious or not. We go shopping when we have to, we are lucky we work from home at the moment, we don't meet friends we just call and message, we wipe anything that comes in - post or shopping. Make sure we wash hands etc?


----------



## O2.0

kittih said:


> Though it's a worry that people are getting colds as it shows they are not observing social distancing.


I think we still have a lot to learn about how this virus spreads, who catches it and how.

Kids get colds. I don't think lack of social distancing is the sole reason.

As for Covid 19, from what I'm seeing in my admittedly very small sample size, people with direct exposure don't always get sick. Dare I say most people with direct exposure end up not getting sick at all. We've had several people in the community put on 10 days quarantine because of direct exposure, and most end up with no symptoms and repeated negative tests. It makes it really hard to take the quarantine seriously when this happens over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad DHEC is pushing for the contact tracing and quarantine for those exposed, but it seems to me we still have a lot to figure out when it comes to this virus.

Meanwhile a friend who works from home, lives alone, and was being extremely careful got sick, she still doesn't know from where as she hadn't been anywhere the two weeks prior to getting Covid.

Reminds me of the AIDS epidemic back in the 80's. First they said it was only a gay man disease, then it was just if you were an IV drug user and people smuggly walked about without a care because they weren't gay, a prostitute or IV drug user.
Then this quiet teenager from Indiana tests positive for AIDS and people lost their shit. And they found out that the virus can be detected in saliva, and sweat, and people lost their shit even more. Are handshakes okay? What about kissing? If someone spits when they speak can they make you sick? Parents were pulling their kids out of school, some people were refusing to shake hands... It was crazy for a few months. I remember it well. 
I also remember sitting in the auditorium at school, now late 80's and a nurse explaining that yes, the AIDS virus is present in saliva, but that you would have to cut a hole in your arm and have an infected person spit huge amounts of saliva in to the wound to even have a chance of getting infected that way. I'm sure there was some hyperbole in there for effect 

The biggest difference to my memory though is that the general narrative surrounding the discovery of AIDS was "calm down folks, the scientists are working on this, and we need to just listen to them and we'll be fine." 
The narrative with Covid 19 seems to be "everybody panic, you're all going to die, and your loved ones are going to die, and the scientists are holding back vital information, you can't trust anyone, and oh yeah, you're all going to die."

It's no wonder people are tuning everything out and just doing their own thing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Quote
*Colds* are caused by viruses and easily *spread* to other people. You're infectious until all your symptoms have gone. This usually takes a week or 2. *Colds*are *spread* by germs from coughs and sneezes, which can live on hands and surfaces for 24 hours.
Unquote

IMO if kids or anyone are getting colds then they can't be adhering to Covid guidelines, which should surely protect against spreading the cold virus at the same time.

So I would expect to see a reduction in the common cold and other similar illnesses, gastric bugs etc. this year.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> This is the latest report from the Hungarian Government about enforcing the compulsory wearing of masks. It's not perfect because there are always people who flout the rules, but at least it acts as a deterrent to most of the population which is small compared to the UK at slightly fewer than 10 million people..
> 
> https://www.kormany.hu/en/news/driv...velling-without-face-masks-to-observe-the-law
> 
> *Driver, too, is required to call on passengers travelling without face masks to observe the law*


Last week on the bus, a guy got on without a mask. The driver played the ''face covering'' recording. It had no effect; so the driver stopped the bus, opened his door, and shouted to the guy, who was standing, that he should put a mask on at which point he refused. Driver turned off the engine, opened his door again and really told the guy what he thought of him. Guy reiterates that he has no mask, so can't wear one, ha ha, aren't I the clever one. The only thing that got the bus moving again was a young woman got a mask out of her bag and handed it to him. If she hadn't I guess we would still be sitting there. And guess what? I was the only person who thanked the young woman. But the driver clearly has no power at all, that much was clear. I'm not sure how things would have progressed if she had not had a spare disposable mask to give him - and then he insisted on having it only over his lower lip so he could use his mobile.


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> IMO if kids or anyone are getting colds then they can't be adhering to Covid guidelines, which should surely protect against spreading the cold virus at the same time.
> 
> So I would expect to see a reduction in the common cold and other similar illnesses, gastric bugs etc. this year.


20 kids sitting in a classroom, masked, sitting 6 feet apart, can still get cold from each other. And covid-19 too for that matter.

I live with 2 kids who have spent their entire school career picking up colds and bugs, OH and I get them despite the fact that we are a close family who snuggle up together even when kids are sick.

My point is, if kids are getting colds, strep, going to the doctor, getting multiple covid tests and still coming up negative, it's possible we don't understand the transmission of covid 19 as much as we would like to think we do. 
Or put another way, there is still a lot to be learned about how covid-19 transmits and who is susceptible to infection.

So far the 'party line' has been wear a mask and social distance. Which is good, but it's obviously not infallible. I know people who have religiously done both and gotten sick. So what else can we figure out about transmission, who is most vulnerable to infection, and how to protect those who are?


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Quote
> *Colds* are caused by viruses and easily *spread* to other people. You're infectious until all your symptoms have gone. This usually takes a week or 2. *Colds*are *spread* by germs from coughs and sneezes, which can live on hands and surfaces for 24 hours.
> Unquote
> 
> IMO if kids or anyone are getting colds then they can't be adhering to Covid guidelines, which should surely protect against spreading the cold virus at the same time.
> 
> So I would expect to see a reduction in the common cold and other similar illnesses, gastric bugs etc. this year.


A cold is a type of coronavirus isn't it, so you would think that would be the case.

My Nan used to say if I went out with wet hair I'd catch a cold, which is garbage.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> My Nan used to say if I went out with wet hair I'd catch a cold, which is garbage.


I was told that when I was a kid.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> I was told that when I was a kid.


And if you sit on a cold pavement you'll get piles!


----------



## O2.0

What's not garbage is that we all have differing immune responses to the same virus. 

For example, I know that prolonged exposure to cold wind without lip protection almost guarantees I will get a cold sore. My friend gets cold sores if she gets a sunburn. Same virus, different triggers. 

I don't know why we're stuck on masks and social distancing as the be-all-end-all complete answer to dealing with Covid-19. 
Why are we not looking at people who have been repeatedly exposed and not gotten sick? Why are we not studying those people and those factors surrounding them? 

I feel like we're stuck in a loop of mask and social distance, oh, you didn't mask and social distance, we'll have to lockdown, okay now back to mask and social distance, nope, you didn't mask and social distance so back to lockdown. Someone has to come up with a better way surely?


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> IMO if kids or anyone are getting colds then they can't be adhering to Covid guidelines, which should surely protect against spreading the cold virus at the same time.


I dont know how the schools in England are operating @Lurcherlad but here in Scotland there is no social distancing requirement in schools or playing outdoors on leisure time for children 11 and under. We do have the ban on household mixing indoors and children are included in that.

For high school aged children 12 to 18, they are supposed to be socially distanced at school and they do wear masks when moving between classes.

But it isnt working at our local school and, from pictures all over social media, many others are failing to manage this. Corridors are packed tight.

Bugs will spread, no doubt about it. I do think it is mentally healthier for the younger children to be allowed to mix - what are they saying about the younger ones in England?

I also wonder if immunity is right down following the lockdown - i have started to take a vit c and zinc supplement to build up my immunity and my school aged daughter is now taking a multi vit. Cant harm.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I don’t have kids in school so I’m not really up on what they’re up to tbh

I understand kids will spread germs between them (and I agree keeping them apart completely is detrimental to them in a lot of ways) but if adults are SD’ing etc. they shouldn’t be passing it on to each other.

Today, I saw quite a few adults not SD’ing or wearing their masks correctly (doubt they are washing it anti baccing religiously either.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> And if you sit on a cold pavement you'll get piles!


Or a hot radiator


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> I dont know how the schools in England are operating @Lurcherlad but here in Scotland there is no social distancing requirement in schools or playing outdoors on leisure time for children 11 and under. We do have the ban on household mixing indoors and children are included in that.
> 
> For high school aged children 12 to 18, they are supposed to be socially distanced at school and they do wear masks when moving between classes.
> 
> But it isnt working at our local school and, from pictures all over social media, many others are failing to manage this. Corridors are packed tight.
> 
> Bugs will spread, no doubt about it. I do think it is mentally healthier for the younger children to be allowed to mix - what are they saying about the younger ones in England?
> 
> I also wonder if immunity is right down following the lockdown - i have started to take a vit c and zinc supplement to build up my immunity and my school aged daughter is now taking a multi vit. Cant harm.


It is impossible for children to social distance in schools there is not enough room. Classrooms are running as normal just with more sanitizer.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Today, I saw quite a few adults not SD'ing or wearing their masks correctly (doubt they are washing it anti baccing religiously either.


Therein lies much of the problem . . . .


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> Classrooms are running as normal just with more sanitizer.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

You could be education spokesperson with statements like that! Classic


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> Classrooms are running as normal just with more sanitizer.


We're all over the place here in the US.
Each state has different requirements and within each state, each school district has made different choices.

In this tiny county we have 2 school districts. One has decided to go all virtual - a colossal disaster. Zoom for little ones just doesn't work. It barely works for older kids. Between internet issues, google classroom issues, the online learning programs constantly kicking rosters out when they reset... it's a complete disaster.

The other district (where my kids are) has decided to offer two options to parents. One full virtual, one full face to face. This has allowed the F2F classrooms to be much smaller. Largest size is 22 students with most around 12. Kids wear masks all day (and are complying easily), with mask breaks throughout the day at lunch times and during outside time. Teachers are encouraged to teach outside as much as possible. If students can sit outside more than 6 feet apart they can take masks off. Dismissal times are staggered so there are never a ton of kids in the hallways. So far it's working really well. Knock wood.

Oh, forgot to add. Teachers clean off desks and high touch areas like door handles between classes. The whole building is sprayed down with some cleaning mist stuff every night.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> We're all over the place here in the US.
> Each state has different requirements and within each state, each school district has made different choices.
> 
> In this tiny county we have 2 school districts. One has decided to go all virtual - a colossal disaster. Zoom for little ones just doesn't work. It barely works for older kids. Between internet issues, google classroom issues, the online learning programs constantly kicking rosters out when they reset... it's a complete disaster.
> 
> The other district (where my kids are) has decided to offer two options to parents. One full virtual, one full face to face. This has allowed the F2F classrooms to be much smaller. Largest size is 22 students with most around 12. Kids wear masks all day (and are complying easily), with mask breaks throughout the day at lunch times and during outside time. Teachers are encouraged to teach outside as much as possible. If students can sit outside more than 6 feet apart they can take masks off. Dismissal times are staggered so there are never a ton of kids in the hallways. So far it's working really well. Knock wood.
> 
> Oh, forgot to add. Teachers clean off desks and high touch areas like door handles between classes. The whole building is sprayed down with some cleaning mist stuff every night.


We have children in bubbles so they only mix with children in their bubble. It seems to be working quite well. A few cases bubble closed and everyone self isolates.


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes same as at our local primary. Plus all the windows open. We have already had items on our local news about how everyone is going to need lots of layers and thick winter coats.


Brrrrrrrr:Cold Glad i dont work in schools any more Will give you a thought as i knock my heating up a notch lol


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Yes same as at our local primary. Plus all the windows open. We have already had items on our local news about how everyone is going to need lots of layers and thick winter coats.
> 
> Brrrrrrrr:Cold Glad i dont work in schools any more Will give you a thought as i knock my heating up a notch lol


Yes it is bloody freezing when I'm in schools I'm in my coat !


----------



## Kittynanna

I’ve just had a letter asking me to take part in NHS Covid research antibody study, in conjunction with a university.I have said yes so may get a test to do at home that tests my blood (finger prick test), results in 20 minutes.

It will be very interesting, has anyone else had the letter, apparently people are selected randomly from GP lists?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Not meaning to be contrary, but I'm sure I read it's easier to catch colds and pass them on in colder conditions because a cold nose has less defence than a warm one? And colder temperatures lower the immune system a little?

Glad I'm not in school anymore! I hate being cold indoors. I remember the science rooms were always freezing, used to have huge single glazed windows that let cold drafts in!


----------



## Siskin

Kittynanna said:


> I've just had a letter asking me to take part in NHS Covid research antibody study, in conjunction with a university.I have said yes so may get a test to do at home that tests my blood (finger prick test), results in 20 minutes.
> 
> It will be very interesting, has anyone else had the letter, apparently people are selected randomly from GP lists?


My husband has had a letter which sounds similar to yours, but I thought it came from the doctors surgery, I need to question him more. He said he will probably take part.

Had a Zoom WI meeting Wednesday evening which went pretty well, but it's a bit weird. I wanted to chat to various people but it didn't really work, much prefer face to face. Still it was nice to see people who I haven't seen since February

Had a physio phone call from my small local hospital who have started seeing some outpatients occasionally. I feel I really need to see a physio to assess how muscles are forming in the leg and to see how I'm walking and moving and to check out the swelling. So I will be seeing her in two weeks time. She explained who the hospital is operating now. The main doors are locked. When I arrive I'm to phone to say I'm here then wait in the car until they come to the door. The physio will be wearing full PPE, I will wear a mask and anoint myself in sanitiser, and be escorted to the department. Afterwards will be escorted out again so the door can be unlocked. The hospital is being cleaned every few hours to within an inch of its life (her words) and the physio dept will be cleansed thoroughly between patients.


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> Not meaning to be contrary, but I'm sure I read it's easier to catch colds and pass them on in colder conditions because a cold nose has less defence than a warm one? And colder temperatures lower the immune system a little?
> 
> Glad I'm not in school anymore! I hate being cold indoors. I remember the science rooms were always freezing, used to have huge single glazed windows that let cold drafts in!


That might be true, but I think the less stale the air is in a room the better, so having good ventilation should help?

That's why I prefer to avoid indoors areas so I'm in a "clean(er)" atmosphere, hopefully


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> That might be true, but I think the less stale the air is in a room the better, so having good ventilation should help?
> 
> That's why I prefer to avoid indoors areas so I'm in a "clean(er)" atmosphere, hopefully


Thats very true, and I suppose when you wear masks it does keep that part of your face warmer!


----------



## LittleMow

My OH boy (6yr) has the bubble setup at school. We had him weekend before last, he'd had a cold, then lot of coughing whilst with us. Spoke to the school and we kept him off for 3 days, they said 48 hours and if coughing has stopped then send him back. Its hard to know what to do for best as they're always picking up colds, but with the cough it puts a doubt in your mind. Kept him off an extra day to make sure coughing had definitely stopped.



HarlequinCat said:


> Glad I'm not in school anymore! I hate being cold indoors. I remember the science rooms were always freezing, used to have huge single glazed windows that let cold drafts in!


This reminded me of my science lessons, freezing in winter. We had to queue up outside the classroom, then when we were let in it'd be a mad dash for the radiators. I normally got a spot, didn't call me flymo for nothing


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> We're all over the place here in the US.
> Each state has different requirements and within each state, each school district has made different choices.


Much the same as here now with each council lobbying for something different.
We had tiers brought in to make things less confusing, apparently!
Tier 1 = Medium
Tier 2 = High
Tier 3 = Very High
You'll notice no low so we have no hope!
Liverpool was the first to go into tier 3, bars and any eatery not serving 'substantial' meals were ordered to close, gyms, leisure centres etc.
Now Lancashire has gone into tier 3 but their gyms can stay open..
Cheshire was split into two a number of years ago (at great expense with rebranding everything) yet supposedly Cheshire West insisted that Cheshire East be in the same tier to make it less ambiguous as if people don't know which area they live.



O2.0 said:


> Dismissal times are staggered so there are never a ton of kids in the hallways. So far it's working really well. Knock wood.


Where I went to school in the US this was standard. All year groups had differing class times and end of day.
We also had different lunchtimes.
Also all schools in the area began and ended at different times to prevent congestion on the roads and so that fewer buses were needed overall.


----------



## SbanR

tabelmabel said:


> Plus all the windows open.


In Scotland, in Winter!!!!????
You'll have icicles hanging off your nose and earlobes


----------



## kittih

O2.0 said:


> 20 kids sitting in a classroom, masked, sitting 6 feet apart, can still get cold from each other. And covid-19 too for that matter.
> 
> I live with 2 kids who have spent their entire school career picking up colds and bugs, OH and I get them despite the fact that we are a close family who snuggle up together even when kids are sick.
> 
> My point is, if kids are getting colds, strep, going to the doctor, getting multiple covid tests and still coming up negative, it's possible we don't understand the transmission of covid 19 as much as we would like to think we do.
> Or put another way, there is still a lot to be learned about how covid-19 transmits and who is susceptible to infection.
> 
> So far the 'party line' has been wear a mask and social distance. Which is good, but it's obviously not infallible. I know people who have religiously done both and gotten sick. So what else can we figure out about transmission, who is most vulnerable to infection, and how to protect those who are?


I agree we still have so much to learn.

It is thought that COVID 19 is most likely to be transmitted via airborne saliva droplets containing virus. Transfer via fomites (inanimate objects bearing virus) is now thought to be low risk. Many cold viruses transmit via surface contact of frequently touched surfaces eg door handles but also via airborne transmission such as coughing and sneezing.

Wearing masks (properly) reduces the number of larger saliva droplets that are ejected from the mouth and nose when breathing, talking, shouting or singing. In a homemade mask the efficient capturing of droplets depends on how close fitting the mask is - any gaps and the droplets will escape by that route) and how tight the weave is. Small droplets may well not be caught by the fabric. However exhaling droplets with a barrier in the way helps disrupt their path and slows them down to a degree even if it doesn't stop them. This means that for a person wearing a mask the total amount of droplets emitted is lower and those not trapped don't travel as far as they would without a mask. So masks don't prevent transmission but they do decrease exposure. The amount of exposure to the virus (time exposed or amount of repeated exposure eg as experienced by some medical staff) can increase likelihood of infection.

The 6ft/2m rule imposed by many countries is another tool to try and reduce exposure. To be honest 6ft is still far too close. A cough or a sneeze or exhaled droplets when shouting can travel many many times further than that. However it is impractical to ask people to distance themselves even further. So the 2m rule is a compromise of lowering risk but allowing society to function to a certain degree.

As neither masks nor 6ft distancing entirely prevent the risk of transmission especially indoors or areas with low ventilation there is still a chance that someone may still catch covid following these precautions.

Another issue that complicates things is that it is estimated that a little under 20% of individuals who are infected with covid are asymptomatic. This is especially true in young people. The symptoms children experience can also be different than those seen in adults and some of those overlap with other illnesses. For instance children can often show gastric symptoms.

Further, the test for covid has a high false negative rate. There have been various estimates but a consistent finding often quoted has been 30%. So a negative result is obtained when a person is actually positive.

Another factor is that some people seem to be able to prevent or reduce infection without producing antibodies B cells). The immune system has different pathways of response to infection. Some people have a T cell response and this is thought to reduce the severity of the disease. In the BMJ (British medical journal) they state that "T cell studies may also help shed light on other mysteries of covid-19, such as why children have been surprisingly spared the brunt of the pandemic, why it affects people differently, and the high rate of asymptomatic infections in children and young adults."

I have signed up to the COVID 19 app by Zoe/Kings College, University of London. They are gathering data from over 4 million people in the UK and also in the USA to find answers to all the questions you have raised and more. They are publishing updates as they obtain them so for anyone who is interested, their website is well worth a look... https://covid.joinzoe.com/blog


----------



## kittih

MilleD said:


> I was talking to my sister about that the other day, surely there should be a LOT less contagious diseases being passed around now?
> 
> What with the social distancing, mask wearing and squirting of hands with sanitiser?


Yes this is true. Unfortunately we won't get zero transmission of contagious diseases as not everyone is compliant and some of the measures like mask wearing and the 2m rule lessen the risk but don't prevent it completely.

There are also situations where transmission is more likely eg in offices and other work places where people are in an enclosed area with poor ventilation and people aren't wearing masks.

It's an interesting thought that if everyone were to to be very strict about preventing transmission we would see very few colds, noravirus or flu cases for a while.


----------



## kittih

O2.0 said:


> I don't know why we're stuck on masks and social distancing as the be-all-end-all complete answer to dealing with Covid-19.


We aren't - it's a temporary measure to control the speed of infection while science has time to identify longer term solutions.



> Why are we not looking at people who have been repeatedly exposed and not gotten sick? Why are we not studying those people and those factors surrounding them?


We are. Lots of articles and scientific papers being produced daily on this exact issue. The British Medical Journal is for instance reporting a number of research findings and studies relating to memory T cell response and how some people who have a covid t cells reaction have non detectable antibody response to covid but have no symptoms or a very mild response.

Masks, social distancing or closing/restricting premises where transmission is more likely due to social interaction isn't about preventing covid completely. It's about ensuring that the population doesn't get sick all at the same time and therefore limit medical resources and other support services and ensure the majority of the population can still carry out their jobs. It also reduces the total exposure to the virus individuals receive so lowering the severity of the disease. Also if the incidence is kept at a lower level in the population it is easier to protect the more vulnerable members.


----------



## tabelmabel

SbanR said:


> In Scotland, in Winter!!!!????
> You'll have icicles hanging off your nose and earlobes


Luckily, not me personally but maybe my daughter:Hilarious

There's already parents up in arms and poverty action groups wanting grants for all the kids that havent got coats. Unfortunately for my daughter, i grew up in those times where hardships like cold, hunger, poverty were believed to be character forming and good for the soul so she will just need to tough it out. And she does have a coat


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Luckily, not me personally but maybe my daughter:Hilarious
> 
> There's already parents up in arms and poverty action groups wanting grants for all the kids that havent got coats. Unfortunately for my daughter, i grew up in those times where hardships like cold, hunger, poverty were believed to be character forming and good for the soul so she will just need to tough it out. And she does have a coat


I remember well last year on my thread about my boxers being cold and needing pjs


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha yes


----------



## SbanR

tabelmabel said:


> Luckily, not me personally but maybe my daughter:Hilarious
> 
> There's already parents up in arms and poverty action groups wanting grants for all the kids that havent got coats. Unfortunately for my daughter, i grew up in those times where hardships like cold, hunger, poverty were believed to be character forming and good for the soul so she will just need to tough it out. And she does have a coat


Please tell your poor daughter she has my deepest sympathies!

I think I remember you once saying you're not at all good at crafts??
You could perhaps ask a friend who's more skilled to sew/knit a nose muffler for her?

Just a thought


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Or a hot radiator


Wasn't that chilblains?


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Wasn't that chilblains?


yes it might right, chilblains... toasting you feet in front of the fire as well.


----------



## mrs phas

All those that were scoffed at, for saying that, the check and trace app, would be used for checking up on people and their whereabouts, rather than just sending you an alert and advice
Well some of it is begining to look not so far fetched

BBC News - Coronavirus: Police get access to NHS Test and Trace self-isolation data
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897

1984 is arriving, just 36 years later than expected. God help those who are not where they're expected to be, when the police turn up at their door


----------



## Blackadder

mrs phas said:


> BBC News - Coronavirus: Police get access to NHS Test and Trace self-isolation data
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897
> 
> 1984 is arriving, just 36 years later than expected. God help those who are not where they're expected to be, when the police turn up at their door


I'm not sure how this will work because, unless things have changed very recently, no-one is obliged to give their name, DOB or address when questioned by the Police.

You have the right to remain silent & if you do how will they know if you've been told to isolate if they can't identify you?

Edit: Just to add I have not downloaded any "track/trace" app & have no intention of doing so. The state pretty much monitors everything we do as it is, I'm not going to make it any easier for them!


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53498100
> 
> Turns out the police do have that power after all
> Which is what I was trying to say...mask wearing is in law now, the police are their to uphold laws...soooo


 Apparently the police spend about 70% of their time attending domestic disputes and assisting in cases where people with mental health issues are in danger of harming themselves or other people - allegedly. So it leaves little time for ''proper policing''.


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> Apparently the police spend about 70% of their time attending domestic disputes and assisting in cases where people with mental health issues are in danger of harming themselves or other people - allegedly. So it leaves little time for ''proper policing''.


Around here they spend most of their time harassing those who may have a bag of weed on them, then blowing their own trumpet on Facebook
Rather than going for the actual dealers, much easier for them to go after those they recognise than actually work towards getting those who deal hard drugs and actually cause the problem
The hardest thing the locals have had to do lately is knock door to door along and nearby to the river, after human bones were found, the big boys from Cambridge/London came to do the real police work


----------



## Lurcherlad

If I was supposed to be self isolating then I’d be found at home, where I should be.

So no drama as far as I’m concerned


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> harassing those who may have a bag of weed on them


Maybe that's their idea of ''proper policing''? Probably.


----------



## Gemmaa

Local FB pages are fascinating...people are really upset about the track and trace thing, and giving details, etc....but most of them will have a phone with fingerprint recognition, they're on social media telling everyone their location, their interests, where they work, who they're married to, birthday, friends, family, etc..while using a device with sound and video recording capabilities.
Feels like that might be an easier method for Big Brother to monitor them


----------



## Calvine

Gemmaa said:


> feels like that might be an easier method for Big Brother to monitor them


 Apparently a very high percentage of benefit fraud is now detected via FB. People just cannot resist the urge to tell their 786 friends on FB that they just got married in the Dominican Republic and are spending a month there on honeymoon and how much the whole shebang costs. And so all their FB pals can admire the opulence of the whole occasion, they post pictures too.


----------



## Jaf

##Edit to say I’m responding to Calvine talking about people being caught committing benefit fraud because they plaster it all over social media...##

Surely people are allowed to go on holiday? I should think half the population is on some form on benefit.

I do remember talking to an old neighbour who was cross that a friend had gone on holiday, it turned out she had inherited some money.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jaf said:


> Surely people are allowed to go on holiday? I should think half the population is on some form on benefit.
> .


I think anyone who is thinking of moving round the country at the moment should think very carefully first. If you live in tier 2 or 3 don't think you can go anywhere and in tier1 why would you risk it


----------



## Jaf

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think anyone who is thinking of moving round the country at the moment should think very carefully first. If you live in tier 2 or 3 don't think you can go anywhere and in tier1 why would you risk it


Sorry! I should have quoted...I was responding to people being found out for benefit fraud. (I'll try to edit my post)

I totally agree with you I wouldn't be going on holiday right now.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jaf said:


> Sorry! I should have quoted...I was responding to people being found out for benefit fraud. (I'll try to edit my post)
> 
> I totally agree with you I wouldn't be going on holiday right now.


 sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusions.


----------



## Calvine

Jaf said:


> ##Edit to say I'm responding to Calvine


I was not implying that benefit claimants cannot go on holiday, I did not suggest that in any way; but that they are likely being watched if they post pictures of a lifestyle they say they cannot (allegedly) afford. Try reading my posts before commenting on them? And, if you are ''responding'' to me, it would be useful if you could tag me. These agencies have ''digital communications officers'' who weed out the fraudsters.

It's that simple *dwp* have access to *your Facebook* if they already suspect fraud is being committed. Therefore everyone getting dla/esa / pip should ensure there are no public photos that may be misconstrued showing on *their FB* or twitter. ... A simple *check* through *your* tagged and album photos is often all it takes.20 Feb 2016


----------



## kimthecat

Jaf said:


> ##Edit to say I'm responding to Calvine talking about people being caught committing benefit fraud because they plaster it all over social media...##
> 
> Surely people are allowed to go on holiday? I should think half the population is on some form on benefit.
> 
> I do remember talking to an old neighbour who was cross that a friend had gone on holiday, it turned out she had inherited some money.


Yes indeed. I think some of the fraud is when people claim to be disabled and are not and they can be caught out doing things they say they cant do. .


----------



## Jaf

Calvine said:


> I was not implying that benefit claimants cannot go on holiday, I did not suggest that in any way; but that they are likely being watched if they post pictures of a lifestyle they say they cannot (allegedly) afford. Try reading my posts before commenting on them? And, if you are ''responding'' to me, it would be useful if you could tag me. These agencies have ''digital communications officers'' who weed out the fraudsters.
> 
> It's that simple *dwp* have access to *your Facebook* if they already suspect fraud is being committed. Therefore everyone getting dla/esa / pip should ensure there are no public photos that may be misconstrued showing on *their FB* or twitter. ... A simple *check* through *your* tagged and album photos is often all it takes.20 Feb 2016


Sorry, I couldn't work out how to edit my post properly. I'm also sorry if I've upset you. I didn't think I'd said anything wrong and I did read your post.

I'm sure everyone is getting watched now.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Yes indeed. I think some of the fraud is when people claim to be disabled and are not and they can be caught out doing things they say they cant do. .


Nothing makes me more annoyed than this
It's people conning the system that makes it so hard for those who really need those benefits to exist, even if it is below the poverty level
Those on jobseekers, or whatever it's called these days, cannot go on holiday, their work is considered to be looking for work a minimum of 7hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (no, Christmas day is not allowed as a day off)
If they don't, without good reason, such as dying (seriously, people in hospital have been sanctioned), then they will be sanctioned
Making those who rely on benefits to live, even worse off, than they are everyday anyway
Even during lockdown the 7hrs a day 7 days a week wasn't lifted, although I believe sanctions were

Think about it,
If someone, on benefits, goes on holiday, then we, the tax payers ( yes I may be on ESA, but I still have to pay tax, because my husband left me with a £60 a month pension, which is taken from my ESA pound for pound) are actually paying for that holiday
Look at it this way....
If someone came to you and asked you, personally, to give them, I dunno, say £500, to go on holiday, would you hand it over, just like that?


----------



## kimthecat

@mrsphas I'm shocked at this I assume they think people can search on line? Did they stop doing widows pensions ?


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> @mrsphas I'm shocked at this I assume they think people can search on line? Did they stop doing widows pensions ?


All searches have to be online under UC
The only contact one has, with UC, is online in one's 'diary'
If you haven't got access to the internet, you are expected to use public resources, such as library's, or go into the old job centres, which are now just hubs, to use the ones in there
As for widows pensions, I had access to two types 12 years ago, one of which stopped after a year, and the other, stopped when my youngest left college, they were topped up, at the time, by income support and of course I could claim child benefit then too
Nowadays I don't know about widows pension, so much has been swallowed by UC, to the detriment of the users, it's scary


----------



## HarlequinCat

JD Jackso said:


> Covid-19 seems to be spreading in the U.S. We need to find extra precautions to keep ourselves safe and healthy.
> This gives good ground-zero information on how to protect ourselves from the inside out.
> Check it out for yourself here, you might find it very helpful in adding on another layer of protection.
> amzn.to/35fj5


Hmmm is this an amazon link where you get a little money if someone goes to the link, and then buys anything from amazon within 24 hrs? Quite a strange thing to do on a first post

To save people clicking it it is an audible book called

Eat to Beat Disease by William W Li


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> Hmmm is this an amazon link where you get a little money if someone goes to the link, and then buys anything from amazon within 24 hrs? Quite a strange thing to do on a first post
> 
> To save people clicking it it is an audible book called
> 
> Eat to Beat Disease by William W Li


I've reported to Mods


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> If I was supposed to be self isolating then I'd be found at home, where I should be.
> 
> So no drama as far as I'm concerned


Absolutely, if you got nothing to hide....


----------



## Happy Paws2

Listening to the radio the other night someone from Cornwall said they should be left in tire 1 so people in tire 2 and 3 could still go on holiday if they wanted too :Jawdrop


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Listening to the radio the other night someone from Cornwall said they should be left in tire 1 so people in tire 2 and 3 could still go on holiday if they wanted too :Jawdrop


My family lives in Cornwall and from what I can gather from talking to my son, Cornwall doesn't want people importing the virus into their county. They'd much prefer people to stay away.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Listening to the radio the other night someone from Cornwall said they should be left in tire 1 so people in tire 2 and 3 could still go on holiday if they wanted too :Jawdrop


Even if Cornwall was to stay in tier 1, the rules state that whatever tier applies to where you live are the rules you follow regardless of where you actually physically are. For instance, my OH house is in a tier 2 area so when he comes to visit, I can go to a restaurant with my sister and brother in law, but he couldn't come with us. Just him and I could go for a meal as he is in my support bubble.

So that person plainly has no clue how it works!


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> My family lives in Cornwall and from what I can gather from talking to my son, Cornwall doesn't want people importing the virus into their county. They'd much prefer people to stay away.


Found out today that my sister and family have gone down to Cornwall in their camper van, so her son can go kayaking
This is the sister whose husband was in hospital for 6 weeks back in April/may with non covid pneumonia and spent 4 of those weeks on oxygen support (no ventilator thank goodness)
You'd really think some people would be thanking the universe for not having had covid, rather than giving a big 'up yours' to karma


----------



## Dave S

I had a letter from Imperial College London the other day inviting me to take part in a Covid study to measure how many people currently have Covid-19. I registered with them and today received the test kit which will be collected by courier tomorrow sometime.

It won't tell me if I have had it but I will find out if I have it now and I should find out the result within a week.

Anyone else received a letter?


----------



## MilleD

Dave S said:


> I had a letter from Imperial College London the other day inviting me to take part in a Covid study to measure how many people currently have Covid-19. I registered with them and today received the test kit which will be collected by courier tomorrow sometime.
> 
> It won't tell me if I have had it but I will find out if I have it now and I should find out the result within a week.
> 
> Anyone else received a letter?


If it's the ipsos Mori one they did, I participated a couple of weeks ago


----------



## Siskin

Dave S said:


> I had a letter from Imperial College London the other day inviting me to take part in a Covid study to measure how many people currently have Covid-19. I registered with them and today received the test kit which will be collected by courier tomorrow sometime.
> 
> It won't tell me if I have had it but I will find out if I have it now and I should find out the result within a week.
> 
> Anyone else received a letter?


Yes my OH has too, his sample cannot be collected until Tuesday, we live out in the sticks which probably accounts for it.


----------



## Dave S

We must be very special people then.


----------



## SbanR

Dave S said:


> We must be very special people then.


Do you have to stick the swab right up your nostril till it pokes out into the light?
Lucky you


----------



## Dave S

It is on your tonsils and into.the nose. Dont stick it anywhere else.


----------



## rona

Ooo Errrr
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sewage-signals-early-warning-of-coronavirus-outbreaks

"A government-led project is successfully detecting traces of coronavirus in sewerage, providing an early warning for local outbreaks across the country and sharing data with NHS Test and Trace.

The programme, which was first announced in June, has now proven that fragments of genetic material from the virus can be detected in wastewater. This can then indicate where a local community or an institution is experiencing a spike in cases."


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Do you have to stick the swab right up your nostril till it pokes out into the light?
> Lucky you


I was told that if you don't gag when doing the thoat, or make your eyes water doing the nose, you're not doing it right


----------



## MilleD

Dave S said:


> We must be very special people then.


Erm, something like that.....


----------



## LittleEms

MilleD said:


> I was told that if you don't gag when doing the thoat, or make your eyes water doing the nose, you're not doing it right


Sounds about right :Hilarious My eyes were streaming after doing mine!


----------



## Dave S

Did mine straight after breakfast, wished I hadn't.


----------



## Siskin

I need to tell my husband this as I suspect he wouldn’t do it right.

I also suspect when I had my covid test when in hospital early June that it wasn’t done correctly even though a nurse wielded the little stick, as I certainly didn’t gag although eyes watered a bit for the nostril one.


----------



## LittleEms

@Siskin Not everyone has a gag reflex, mine just happens to be pretty sensitive! As long as the end of the swab hit the right place for the right amount of time it should have been fine, gagging or not


----------



## rona

One of my OH's bosses had got it. A couple 

By pure fluke and luck, OH hasn't had contact for two weeks.

They are really quite worried, they are both of a dangerous age and the man has underlying issues


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> One of my OH's bosses had got it. A couple
> 
> By pure fluke and luck, OH hasn't had contact for two weeks.
> 
> They are really quite worried, they are both of a dangerous age and the man has underlying issues


Oh Rona I'm sorry to this, fingers crossed they make a full recovery with no after affects.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Jaf said:


> ##Edit to say I'm responding to Calvine talking about people being caught committing benefit fraud because they plaster it all over social media...##
> 
> Surely people are allowed to go on holiday? I should think half the population is on some form on benefit.
> 
> I do remember talking to an old neighbour who was cross that a friend had gone on holiday, it turned out she had inherited some money.


I'm going away today for two nights self catering. Somewhere I know well and the owner too. I have a list of their checks and we don't have to stop on the way and I'll follow the protocols - two metres, masks and sanisters. We're in tier 1 at the moment, I have no symptoms. I'll take my own bedding and towels.

I've been working non-stop since March, haven't left the town. I know I'm increasingly getting social anxiety about doing anything, and likewise staying in. If I was going to a hotel or the pub, or traveling between tier 2 or 3 areas. I'd be a lot more nervous.

Mental health also matters. Just staring at four different walls makes a difference I hope. We have to do our own risk assessments physical and mental.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Enjoy your Weekend Break hope the weather is kind to you


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> Enjoy your Weekend Break hope the weather is kind to you


Thank you. I was a bit worried about saying I was going away. It also means my roof can be fixed as I've finally got permission. The house is listed and I've learned too much about roof tiles than is healthy to know. They'll have space to work in safety.

I'm a bit worried about going away but I am also amazed at how many people are going longer distances it seems (accordingly to photos on social media). The thought of driving to Cornwall or Scotland and stopping in service areas makes me feel scared! We moved a holiday planned for Scotland this year to 2021.


----------



## ForestWomble

I'm in a dilemma. Since we were allowed to start seeing people in our houses, my parents have been coming round as normal, I've had the windows and door open so we have plenty of ventilation, and while I've been feeling nervous, it's been OK. Now with the increase in numbers, (my area is tier 1 (though how it's only tier 1 amazes me looking at the numbers of positive tests), my parents area is also tier 1 and the numbers for covid are a lot lower, (but still look fairly high to me)) I don't know what to do re seeing my parents, they say they are being careful, but they are doing more than I'd be comfortable with (though I also know with my anxiety what I'm comfortable with is 'avoid people at all costs' and if my parents are happy with what they are doing I would never ask them to stop, they have to carry on as they see fit). It's my mums birthday soon and I want to see her for that and see her open her present, but my anxiety levels have sky rocketed lately and I don't think I feel safe. 
My parents have said that I need to feel comfortable, so we could leave them coming round until Bungos vet appointment which is in November, so not far away, then he'll have his appointment and there will be a few things that'll need to be done at home, so we can see each other, catch up and get a bunch of things done, then we can take it from there. 
Thing is I know from experience that 'ignoring' my anxiety isn't good for me as it builds up and up to a point I can't cope and end up in a right state, potentially having a breakdown, I can already feel that its a lot worse than it has been for a while, but I'm worried too that saying that I'd like to wait until Bungos appointment time will just make that day even more scary as I've put off seeing them for a few weeks. I don't have a garden otherwise I wouldn't be worried because we'd just stay in the garden.

Sorry for my rant, thankyou if you read it all, not sure what I want from this, maybe getting it out will help me clear my head or something. In the end I think one choice will make me anxious (or rather continue the anxiety), the other choice leaves me feeling a tad guilty......


----------



## SbanR

Not a rant at all @ForestWomble .
I hope expressing your thoughts has helped relieve the pressure a little n help you come to a decision.


----------



## ForestWomble

SbanR said:


> Not a rant at all @ForestWomble .
> I hope expressing your thoughts has helped relieve the pressure a little n help you come to a decision.


Thank you, hasn't helped yet but hoping it will in time, I don't watch the news but what I've heard on here I feel that Scotland seem to have a better plan at the moment, I know its difficult but the plan we have in England is currently scaring me silly. 
Maybe I should follow Scotland?


----------



## SbanR

ForestWomble said:


> Thank you, hasn't helped yet but hoping it will in time, I don't watch the news but what I've heard on here I feel that Scotland seem to have a better plan at the moment, I know its difficult but the plan we have in England is currently scaring me silly.
> Maybe I should follow Scotland?


Scotland has always come through with a clear plan. We have clowns in Whitehall.


----------



## JamesM22

Covid-19 is spreading too fast. Not sure when will we get rid of it?


----------



## Happy Paws2

JamesM22 said:


> Covid-19 is spreading too fast. Not sure when will we get rid of it?


If ever!


----------



## kimthecat

IN the last week our Borough had 453 new cases , a rise of 35%,


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> I'm in a dilemma. Since we were allowed to start seeing people in our houses, my parents have been coming round as normal, I've had the windows and door open so we have plenty of ventilation, and while I've been feeling nervous, it's been OK. Now with the increase in numbers, (my area is tier 1 (though how it's only tier 1 amazes me looking at the numbers of positive tests), my parents area is also tier 1 and the numbers for covid are a lot lower, (but still look fairly high to me)) I don't know what to do re seeing my parents, they say they are being careful, but they are doing more than I'd be comfortable with (though I also know with my anxiety what I'm comfortable with is 'avoid people at all costs' and if my parents are happy with what they are doing I would never ask them to stop, they have to carry on as they see fit). It's my mums birthday soon and I want to see her for that and see her open her present, but my anxiety levels have sky rocketed lately and I don't think I feel safe.
> My parents have said that I need to feel comfortable, so we could leave them coming round until Bungos vet appointment which is in November, so not far away, then he'll have his appointment and there will be a few things that'll need to be done at home, so we can see each other, catch up and get a bunch of things done, then we can take it from there.
> Thing is I know from experience that 'ignoring' my anxiety isn't good for me as it builds up and up to a point I can't cope and end up in a right state, potentially having a breakdown, I can already feel that its a lot worse than it has been for a while, but I'm worried too that saying that I'd like to wait until Bungos appointment time will just make that day even more scary as I've put off seeing them for a few weeks. I don't have a garden otherwise I wouldn't be worried because we'd just stay in the garden.
> 
> Sorry for my rant, thankyou if you read it all, not sure what I want from this, maybe getting it out will help me clear my head or something. In the end I think one choice will make me anxious (or rather continue the anxiety), the other choice leaves me feeling a tad guilty......


Your not being silly I feel the same about seeing my family. I get in a state about it. My sister who I'm away with lives alone and is very sensible so I don't mind but I get stressed whenever I visit my mum. I hate how this virus has made me question visiting my family. This is why I'm thinking I'd best spend Christmas alone or I'll drive myself mad worrying.


----------



## tabelmabel

ForestWomble said:


> I feel that Scotland seem to have a better plan at the moment


I dont think so. I just think nicola is a better communicator and leader than boris and, in troubled times, people look to someone to guide them through and nicola always looks as if she is well capable.

However, people in scotland are starting to feel she's going wrong lately as businesses are going under left, right and centre. And nicola looks like she hasnt slept for weeks since Alex (salmond) started calling her to account over her integrity with regard to his sex trial.

Im with you though @ForestWomble - id rather just tuck up safe over winter now. Either restrictions off altogether and let's crack on or keep in and keep safe.

All these rules that make precious little sense give no sense of security at all.

Your parents sound understanding. Why not go back to zoom meets? Could that be an option?


----------



## tabelmabel

As to when we will get rid of it, my friend who is an environmentalist says 4 yrs.

And im starting to think she is right.

Depressingly, 4 yrs and then another will come along. In 4 yr cycles as we have upset the balance with nature. I cant expand on that as im not an environmentalist but she explained it all to me and it sounded right at the time.

Unless there ever is a vaccine . . .


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Unless there ever is a vaccine . . .


I'm not holding my breath on that one.


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> Your not being silly I feel the same about seeing my family. I get in a state about it. My sister who I'm away with lives alone and is very sensible so I don't mind but I get stressed whenever I visit my mum. I hate how this virus has made me question visiting my family. This is why I'm thinking I'd best spend Christmas alone or I'll drive myself mad worrying.


*HUGS* It's horrible isn't it 



tabelmabel said:


> I dont think so. I just think nicola is a better communicator and leader than boris and, in troubled times, people look to someone to guide them through and nicola always looks as if she is well capable.
> 
> However, people in scotland are starting to feel she's going wrong lately as businesses are going under left, right and centre. And nicola looks like she hasnt slept for weeks since Alex (salmond) started calling her to account over her integrity with regard to his sex trial.
> 
> Im with you though @ForestWomble - id rather just tuck up safe over winter now. Either restrictions off altogether and let's crack on or keep in and keep safe.
> 
> All these rules that make precious little sense give no sense of security at all.
> 
> Your parents sound understanding. Why not go back to zoom meets? Could that be an option?


Thank you. Good to hear from someone who knows more re Scotland and N.S. and everything.

Since I wrote my post I've spoken to mum and we've agreed to hold off visits for now, we agreed that I need to listen to my mind and we think its had enough of being brave and I need some calming down time. I'm very grateful that they are being so understanding through this 

We've never done zoom, never even heard of it, we just talk over the phone, but I was thinking about looking into something like zoom, especially if we end up either in lockdown, or we decide its better we stay at our own homes for Christmas. 
Is zoom a website or what is it?


----------



## Magyarmum

My family are too far away so I've no idea when or if ever, I'll see them again!

The new infections in Hungary have skyrocketed and from only 165 new cases in my county a month ago we now have over 3000. I've given up taking the dogs for training and only go out when I absolutely need to. which is about every 10 days or so.

Tesco now deliver to my village, but it's a fat lot of use to me because you can only pay by credit/debit card but as we've no mobile signal is useless to me. At present I should be able to click and collect from their supermarket in the city which is over an hours drive away. Only problem is their server's down and no idea when it will be working again.

And still no sign of the new dog I was promised in September!









All very depressing!


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha there's no good asking me @ForestWomble as im a luddite through and through but basically there are loads of these platforms online that allow you to see the person you're talking to. I think zoom is a popular one as you can get to see all your family members at once and have quiz and game parties and things.

I will be into the swing of it for christmas. So far, it is all new to me and my son was setting me up with google meets (?)

Microsoft teams is doing the school parents' eve this year.

So i know how to accept an invite and join but dont ask me how to set up lol!

@Boxer123 will know all this stuff im sure


----------



## Magyarmum

ForestWomble said:


> *HUGS* It's horrible isn't it
> 
> Thank you. Good to hear from someone who knows more re Scotland and N.S. and everything.
> 
> Since I wrote my post I've spoken to mum and we've agreed to hold off visits for now, we agreed that I need to listen to my mind and we think its had enough of being brave and I need some calming down time. I'm very grateful that they are being so understanding through this
> 
> We've never done zoom, never even heard of it, we just talk over the phone, but I was thinking about looking into something like zoom, especially if we end up either in lockdown, or we decide its better we stay at our own homes for Christmas.
> Is zoom a website or what is it?


Do you have Facebook? My family all keep in touch by using the video chat on Messenger. It's for free and very easy to use.


----------



## ForestWomble

Sounds like you know more than me @tabelmabel, I've only done one and that was via the NHS.


----------



## ForestWomble

Magyarmum said:


> Do you have Facebook? My family all keep in touch by using the video chat on Messenger. It's for free and very easy to use.


Yes I do, thank you, I shall look into that.


----------



## Magyarmum

ForestWomble said:


> Yes I do, thank you, I shall look into that.


I love messenger and use it far more than email unless I have something long or formal to write.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Our trip last week (both areas same risk factor) really did us good tbh.

Having a change of scenery was refreshing and OH was able to get a total rest from work.

The accommodation had been antibac’d and we took our own bedding and followed all the rules so really don’t think we have added to ours or anybody else’s risk tbh, especially as OH was in the “shielding” group so we’ve been pretty much self isolating since March.

As for missing family, I guess I’m “lucky” that because they live abroad, I’m used to being without them for long periods.

My sister was here in January, thankfully, but I hope to see her and my niece and great niece some time next year.


----------



## Boxer123

@ForestWomble we use Microsoft teams for work you can invite more than one person at a time and have a split screen. I use the house party app for friends it's free to download and again you can speak to more than one user.


----------



## tabelmabel

ForestWomble said:


> New Sounds like you know more than me @tabelmabel


Lol i really don't! It's only as i live with young people. Teenagers. They let me call it zoo til about may.

And hang ups. (I think it might be hang outs)

I hear them talk about this stuff and of course they know all about it. But i pick up bits and bobs like an old person.

My eldest son was a cheeky one - he set up a compter for me before leaving home 6 years ago and he named the google chrome icon "The Google"

And then the non chrome icon was: "t'internet"

Made me laugh though!


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> @ForestWomble we use Microsoft teams for work you can invite more than one person at a time and have a split screen. I use the house party app for friends it's free to download and again you can speak to more than one user.


Thank you 



tabelmabel said:


> Lol i really don't! It's only as i live with young people. Teenagers. They let me call it zoo til about may.
> 
> And hang ups. (I think it might be hang outs)
> 
> I hear them talk about this stuff and of course they know all about it. But i pick up bits and bobs like an old person.
> 
> My eldest son was a cheeky one - he set up a compter for me before leaving home 6 years ago and he named the google chrome icon "The Google"
> 
> And then the non chrome icon was: "t'internet"
> 
> Made me laugh though!


:Hilarious I rather like your eldest sons sense of humour.

I have no idea what a hang up or hang out is. :Bag


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Not able to sleep tonight with what is happening to us. This is an image which should (does) terrify us far, far more than the virus. Utterly horrifying.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> IN the last week our Borough had 453 new cases , a rise of 35%,


I'm worried about my area at 101 in a week and that has 142,000 people and covers over 500sq miles/ What's the population of your borough?



samuelsmiles3 said:


> Not able to sleep tonight with what is happening to us. This is an image which should (does) terrify us far, far more than the virus. Utterly horrifying.
> View attachment 452711


Not sure what it's supposed to signify. Is it lack of mask wearing, are they teachers or is it the fact that they are digging up more of our beautiful land?


----------



## Jobeth

They are only wearing them because they are near the photographers etc. The adults are far away enough not to need them. Children that age don’t wear masks in school. The adults might whilst in the corridor or working 1:1 for a long enough time.


----------



## Bisbow

the rate in my area has risen from 41 to 50 per 100,000 in the last couple of days

Not bad compared to some parts of the country but a bit concerning all the same

That's out f a population of about 300,ooo


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> I'm worried about my area at 101 in a week and that has 142,000 people and covers over 500sq miles/ What's the population of your borough?


Approx 300, 000 but going up all the time. 44.67 sq miles


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just heard a scientist on TV saying that 1 in every 130 people could be carrying the virus.


----------



## Bisbow

Just got back from collecting my new glasses and was surprised at the number of people out on a very wet Sunday morning
But most of them wearing masks

Wondered if they were shopping before our friend Boris slams down the shutters again


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Approx 300, 000 but going up all the time. 44.67 sq miles


That's scary


----------



## Jobeth

M


Bisbow said:


> the rate in my area has risen from 41 to 50 per 100,000 in the last couple of days
> 
> Not bad compared to some parts of the country but a bit concerning all the same
> 
> That's out f a population of about 300,ooo


My area is 504 per 100,000!


----------



## ForestWomble

My area is 165 per 100.000 

651 new cases in the last week, an increase of 171 from the previous week. Really scary.


----------



## kittih

Boxer123 said:


> @ForestWomble we use Microsoft teams for work you can invite more than one person at a time and have a split screen. I use the house party app for friends it's free to download and again you can speak to more than one user.


@ForestWomble I have recently used house party for a work leaving do. It was really easy to use and the time isn't restricted like zoom. All you need to do is down load the app onto your phone assuming you all have smart phones. Then you can add each other via your contacts or if you know the user name they signed up with you can use that. Then either if you can invite each other to a "party". There are games you can play or just have a chat. I couldn't get it to work properly on my laptop (I suspect a settings issue).


----------



## ForestWomble

kittih said:


> @ForestWomble I have recently used house party for a work leaving do. It was really easy to use and the time isn't restricted like zoom. All you need to do is down load the app onto your phone assuming you all have smart phones. Then you can add each other via your contacts or if you know the user name they signed up with you can use that. Then either if you can invite each other to a "party". There are games you can play or just have a chat. I couldn't get it to work properly on my laptop (I suspect a settings issue).


Thank you. None of us have smart phones, but we could see if it'll work on a laptop. 
My parents think its worth looking into.


----------



## kimthecat

:Jawdrop A least he was wearing a mask!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876889/Father-protests-PANTS-Tesco-Wales-non-essential-items-rule.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top


----------



## kittih

ForestWomble said:


> Thank you. None of us have smart phones, but we could see if it'll work on a laptop.
> My parents think its worth looking into.


I went to the website for it on my lap top and got it that way. It seemed to register ok and I was able to join the "party" but I couldn't see anyone. I think that's most likely to be a problem with my settings rather than it not working on laptops. When I get a chance I will try and fix it. So it should work for you. Otherwise zoom is good and easy to use but you have to leave after 40mins and create a new meeting if you want to keep chatting.


----------



## JamesM22

Happy Paws2 said:


> If ever!


Nothing to do with this.


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> We've never done zoom, never even heard of it, we just talk over the phone, but I was thinking about looking into something like zoom, especially if we end up either in lockdown, or we decide its better we stay at our own homes for Christmas.
> Is zoom a website or what is it?


I've found zoom meetings to be ok, but can be tricky for some people to access.

What's App video is very good. You do need an internet connection for it to work still, but it's literally like making a phone call, but you press the video icon instead of the phone handset icon on your mobile (assuming you have front facing cameras on the phones that are being used).

Is this a possibility?


----------



## Magyarmum

When she was over last year my granddaughter and I tried several video chats. The easiest on for me is Facebook Messenger. If you already have Facebook. you should also have FB Messenger with Chat and video already set up.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I've found zoom meetings to be ok, but can be tricky for some people to access.
> 
> What's App video is very good. You do need an internet connection for it to work still, but it's literally like making a phone call, but you press the video icon instead of the phone handset icon on your mobile (assuming you have front facing cameras on the phones that are being used).
> 
> Is this a possibility?


The problem with what's app is that it can only be used on smart phones. I've looked at apps which are supposed to allow you to use WhatsApp on the iPad but they don't work well and you still need to have the phone on at the app


----------



## Arny

Or good old skype


----------



## ForestWomble

kittih said:


> I went to the website for it on my lap top and got it that way. It seemed to register ok and I was able to join the "party" but I couldn't see anyone. I think that's most likely to be a problem with my settings rather than it not working on laptops. When I get a chance I will try and fix it. So it should work for you. Otherwise zoom is good and easy to use but you have to leave after 40mins and create a new meeting if you want to keep chatting.


Thank you.



MilleD said:


> I've found zoom meetings to be ok, but can be tricky for some people to access.
> 
> What's App video is very good. You do need an internet connection for it to work still, but it's literally like making a phone call, but you press the video icon instead of the phone handset icon on your mobile (assuming you have front facing cameras on the phones that are being used).
> 
> Is this a possibility?


Thank you. We only have 'old-fashioned' phone and text mobiles so not possible for us to use What's App.

We have facebook so @Magyarmum suggestion of messenger sounds potentially the easiest option for us so far, but we will look at all suggestions and see what works best.


----------



## Jaf

Curfew in Spain now. I think it’s 11pm till 6am but haven’t heard from my local town hall. Not sure how it will help, perhaps it will stop illegal parties in people’s houses.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> :Jawdrop A least he was wearing a mask!
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876889/Father-protests-PANTS-Tesco-Wales-non-essential-items-rule.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top


Wouldn't matter if he wasn't. I doubt many would be looking at his face.


----------



## mrs phas

Have been coerced into taking son, gf and gf son to Felixstowe today 'as it's the only day of half term we can all go as a family'
They were very surprised that I chose to stay in the car, rather than join them (least time I spend with gf, easier it is to hold my tongue)
Felixstowe is heaving with people, of course children have no idea of social distancing and are running all over, as children do, they're children after all, lines going round the block for chips, even a few mad people in the sea
Nope I'll stay safe in my bubble, I've told them when they come back coats in boot and use handsanitizer wipes on hands and shoes before getting back in car


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Have been coerced into taking son, gf and gf son to Felixstowe today 'as it's the only day of half term we can all go as a family'
> They were very surprised that I chose to stay in the car, rather than join them (least time I spend with gf, easier it is to hold my tongue)
> Felixstowe is heaving with people, of course children have no idea of social distancing and are running all over, as children do, they're children after all, lines going round the block for chips, even a few mad people in the sea
> Nope I'll stay safe in my bubble, I've told them when they come back coats in boot and use handsanitizer wipes on hands and shoes before getting back in car


There's a nice 'pop up' cafe on the sea front more towards the container port by the new blocks of flats. It's a sit out one and they provide warm blankets for cold days, does lovely cakes.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> There's a nice 'pop up' cafe on the sea front more towards the container port by the new blocks of flats. It's a sit out one and they provide warm blankets for cold days, does lovely cakes.


We're up that end now


----------



## Siskin

I find the container port quite interesting. Also like the Landguard wildlife area by the sea as there are often some interesting birds there especially at this time of year as migrants are preparing to go.

We stayed one year at Felixstowe Ferry for a week which is fascinating and the pubs good too


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Pppfffftttt. Just had father in law here for a cuppa in the garden. He spends five nights a week in London and two here...which of course means he's Tier 2 there, so can't see anyone indoors here except his sister-in-law (who he lived with when my husband's mum died last year) who he is in a bubble with (as she is single). He sat outside and said, "Christmas is cancelled then". Which about sums it all up, really. He is very confused with all the rules and thinks we are bonkers to make him be outside but I can't and won't not follow the rules - it's too important for my work. if I made one of the women I see ill, just because he's carried something to me, I'd be gutted. I know the rates down here are extremely low but I am so wary of spreading it. 

Still. Double ppffffftttttt to no Christmas. 

If it is cancelled, I'm having fillet steak for my Christmas lunch. Heh. Sod the blinking turkey.


----------



## Cully

Well @Mrs Funkin if Christmas is cancelled then I think we are entitled to have what we really fancy for dinner, not what custom dictates we conform to just to please the relatives who usually invade us.
That probably means having something very naughty and unhealthy.
At the moment I'm picturing a large plate of English fry up plus all the extras. And if I want trifle and chips for breakfast, well why not?


----------



## mrs phas

Sitting here in tears
Due to my dentist leaving to work abroad, the partner, who was a horrible, horrible person, dying
And
Covid, meaning since lockdown finished, the dentist are only seeing private and emergency patients
It adds up to me not having had a check up for 18 months, despite them knowing I am on bisphosphonates, which can cause jaw and gumline problems
10 mins ago one of my front middle bottom teeth fell out, left such a hole, the one one next to it is now rocking
I look like a fat meth head now:Arghh
Looking at it, it seems I've been lucky to not have been in acute pain, as the bit that was under the gumline, had a black hole in it (yuk!)
Being a tad phobic ( from very phobic) I've been very careful of my teeth, and barring wisdom teeth, and now this one, have all my own adult teeth and only 2 fillings
I'm going to phone tomorrow and if they still say no, because I'm a NHS patient, I'm going to find out how to get referred to the NHS dentist at the health centre
Everyone moans I don't smile in photos, I will be doing it even less now:Bawling:Bawling:Bawling


----------



## Jobeth

I’m sorry to hear that. I’d ring 111 as it should be classed as a dental emergency.


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> Sitting here in tears
> Due to my dentist leaving to work abroad, the partner, who was a horrible, horrible person, dying
> And
> Covid, meaning since lockdown finished, the dentist are only seeing private and emergency patients
> It adds up to me not having had a check up for 18 months, despite them knowing I am on bisphosphonates, which can cause jaw and gumline problems
> 10 mins ago one of my front middle bottom teeth fell out, left such a hole, the one one next to it is now rocking
> I look like a fat meth head now:Arghh
> Looking at it, it seems I've been lucky to not have been in acute pain, as the bit that was under the gumline, had a black hole in it (yuk!)
> Being a tad phobic ( from very phobic) I've been very careful of my teeth, and barring wisdom teeth, and now this one, have all my own adult teeth and only 2 fillings
> I'm going to phone tomorrow and if they still say no, because I'm a NHS patient, I'm going to find out how to get referred to the NHS dentist at the health centre
> Everyone moans I don't smile in photos, I will be doing it even less now:Bawling:Bawling:Bawling


Sorry to hear this I agree it sounds like an emergency must be very painful.


----------



## Lurcherlad

@mrs phas

That's horrible for you 

Given you should be monitored because of your meds I'd get on and push to be seen by another NHS dentist in your area as an urgent case tbh.


----------



## mrs phas

Well I phoned my own dentist this morning, might as well have whistled into the wind
As the tooth is out, it cannot be causing pain, 
But
The necrosis that bisphosphonates, can possibly, cause is more likely to start through an open wound in the jawline
And, of course, the one next door to the hole is now rocking
I will get a call back when the dentist has time to do so, what he can tell over the phone I don't know
However, if I wish to go private, I can be seen tomorrow morning, including x-rays of my jaw, the loose one either stabilised or extracted, ready, in two weeks time, to have a mould taken for a bridge
Phoning 111 (community dentist line) they ask me to go to Cambridge who will tell me where in the country I can be seen, they cannot guarantee it will be near to me, but, obviously they will try to make it in East Anglia


----------



## Jobeth

That’s dreadful. I’d have thought that the dental department at the hospital would at least be able to help. Did they tell you how much it would cost if you had it done privately?


----------



## tabelmabel

That's terrible @mrs phas - in scotland we have emergency dental hospitals where people who arent registered to any dentist can go. They just do the basics to stop pain and infection but better than nothing. Is there nothing similar in England?

On another note @kimthecat i cant believe you started this thread in january!!! If only we had all been as concerned and perceptive back in jan, we might not be in this mess now.

And finally, regarding christmas - i was listening to jeremy vine today and most people calling in were not planning on taking any notice of any restrictions and going ahead meeting family as freely as they liked!!!

Im very happy now my digital christmas is on course. I can see plenty benefits - fewer dishes, much cheaper smaller turkey and more of my faves left in the sweeties tins!

This is the way forward for sure!


----------



## Nonnie

There are some 'positives' to the current situation i guess you could call them.

After a 4 year long battle with my GP, i finally got referred to a specialist at the local hospital just before the pandemic hit. Bypassed the entire consultation stage and so far have had 3 MRI's (all done at a private scanner so that you dont have to enter the main hospital - better quality equipment and much MUCH faster) and a series of x-rays.

Might not like the results, but no too and fro to the hospital which is a PITA when you dont drive.


----------



## mrs phas

Jobeth said:


> That's dreadful. I'd have thought that the dental department at the hospital would at least be able to help. Did they tell you how much it would cost if you had it done privately?


I darent ask
I'm still living hand to mouth since the move
I know last year, before my dentist left, I was looking at the price lists and even a scale clean and polish, with hygienist was £150, so I dread to think
@tabelmabel , here, one has to be referred to the hospital dentist
The community dentist is where you go if not registered or in immense pain and no appointments available or at a weekend
However their line is closed and they tell you to phone 111, where you'll be assessed
Hence the above rigmarole


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> There are some 'positives' to the current situation i guess you could call them.
> 
> After a 4 year long battle with my GP, i finally got referred to a specialist at the local hospital just before the pandemic hit. Bypassed the entire consultation stage and so far have had 3 MRI's (all done at a private scanner so that you dont have to enter the main hospital - better quality equipment and much MUCH faster) and a series of x-rays.
> 
> Might not like the results, but no too and fro to the hospital which is a PITA when you dont drive.


Good luck with everything @Nonnie, I hope it's better news then you're thinking.

I lashed out when I had knee replacement nearly 3 years ago, I would have had a very long wait with the nhs and I was in a lot of pain at the time. It was expensive but with it in the long run.


----------



## Nonnie

Siskin said:


> Good luck with everything @Nonnie, I hope it's better news then you're thinking.
> 
> I lashed out when I had knee replacement nearly 3 years ago, I would have had a very long wait with the nhs and I was in a lot of pain at the time. It was expensive but with it in the long run.


Oh i didnt pay. The NHS is using/paying for their facilities as its on the main hospital site, but you dont have to enter the main buildings. They are sort of tucked out the back in their own building with separate parking and entrance. I have only been in the main hospital once when i did have to see a consultant for a physical examination. That was before cases started to rise - not sure id want to go now unless it was entirely unavoidable.

Its really nice and well run, and the MRI scanner is top of the range apparently. What took no more than 20 mins in the private machine, would have taken over an hour in the NHS funded one. As i found out i am a tad claustrophobic during my first scan where i went in head first, i was very pleased all subsequent scans were done in the super machine.


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> Oh i didnt pay. The NHS is using/paying for their facilities as its on the main hospital site, but you dont have to enter the main buildings. They are sort of tucked out the back in their own building with separate parking and entrance. I have only been in the main hospital once when i did have to see a consultant for a physical examination. That was before cases started to rise - not sure id want to go now unless it was entirely unavoidable.
> 
> Its really nice and well run, and the MRI scanner is top of the range apparently. What took no more than 20 mins in the private machine, would have taken over an hour in the NHS funded one. As i found out i am a tad claustrophobic during my first scan where i went in head first, i was very pleased all subsequent scans were done in the super machine.


When I was being diagnosed back in February the MRI I had just on the thigh took three quarters of an hour! I heard most of the archers omnibus whilst having it. Subsequent ones have been much quicker.
Thankfully the hospital in Cheltenham is covid free currently, any cases get shipped off to Gloucester, so I felt pretty safe there when I had an appointment and an X-ray last week


----------



## Jobeth

mrs phas said:


> I darent ask
> I'm still living hand to mouth since the move
> I know last year, before my dentist left, I was looking at the price lists and even a scale clean and polish, with hygienist was £150, so I dread to think
> @tabelmabel , here, one has to be referred to the hospital dentist
> The community dentist is where you go if not registered or in immense pain and no appointments available or at a weekend
> However their line is closed and they tell you to phone 111, where you'll be assessed
> Hence the above rigmarole


£150 for a scale and clean is a complete rip off. I pay privately and it's probably around £30. https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/dentists/article/private-and-nhs-dental-charges-al0jA6J1Swyl


----------



## Dave S

Well I had the email result back from my Covid test survey and I do not have it.
Yes I am happy about that, it cannot say if I have had it as last January I had a bad cough and other things wrong.
Cannot say if it was a useful exercise really.


----------



## Jobeth

I’ve had a negative antibodies test which is interesting considering the work that I do.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> Well I had the email result back from my Covid test survey and I do not have it.
> Yes I am happy about that, it cannot say if I have had it as l*ast January I had a bad cough and other things wrong.*
> Cannot say if it was a useful exercise really.


Me too, last Christmas never felt so ill, coughing couldn't breath in bed on and off for days. Have had Flu and coughs before but nothing like that.


----------



## laugher

The recent findings about antibodies are rather discouraging. Several studies have shown that antibodies developed through natural exposure might not last all that long. Expectedly, antibody positivity rate is quite high among frontline workers -- perhaps, it is surmised, due to regular exposure to the virus. Antibodies seem to vanish quickest among the elderly. These findings are limited to the UK, but it is fair to extrapolate this to the global population. Serosurveys will definitely be affected if it is indeed true that antibodies last for an average 2 months.

It's not all gloom, though -- virologists argue that this is to be expected, and that natural exposure alone has never resulted in herd immunity. A vaccine gives us more lasting antibodies and of course the viral dose can be calibrated and repeated with multiple inoculations. With natural exposure we just can't control the viral load -- which is perhaps a huge factor when it comes to reinfection and duration of immunity. Even with a vaccine, extensive vaccination let alone global vaccination is a few years away. This is going to be a huge logistical challenge -- producing the requisite number of doses, storing them, shipping them, administering them. Then we need the personnel for all this. People will have to be trained to handle and administer the vaccine. Sociologists have argued that the pandemic has laid bare some of the basic problems in economics too -- that the pursuit of profit (even in the name of growth and development) has prevented us planning for contingencies and emergencies we know are imminent (See: Economics Today and Tomorrow). Pandemics happen every 100-150 years, yet we don't have a system to deal with one. If this doesn't wake us up, we are a foolish specie


----------



## Happy Paws2

laugher said:


> we are a foolish specie


Well we are, we are destroying our planet and killing off the animals we share it with, so it seems like it payback time.


----------



## Siskin

Although it would appear that there are less or apparently no antibodies some months after a covid infection, scientists do say that it’s possible that the antibodies are still there, but not in enough numbers to register in the tests, but can still protect. There is also something called T cells which are similar to antibodies which can spring into action when needed


----------



## Bisbow

Call me silly if you want but I don't believe it will be over until nature has reduced the level of the human population down to a level that will be able to live in comfort without ruining the rest of the planet and it's occupants


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> There is also something called T cells which are similar to antibodies which can spring into action when needed


Have you never seen or played Resident Evil?
T cells are the devil's own mutant zombie cells
We're all doomed I tell you!

Ok, obviously not being serious, but 2020 is definitely adding up to be finishing in the same ongoing nightmare 
If it was written as a movie, it would beggar belief
(Although it was in 2011, almost identically, stage by stage, to what we're going through now)


----------



## tabelmabel

mrs phas said:


> here, one has to be referred to the hospital dentist


Hopefully you wont need to wait too long and you will be smiling again soon!


----------



## Cully

Bisbow said:


> Call me silly if you want but I don't believe it will be over until nature has reduced the level of the human population down to a level that will be able to live in comfort without ruining the rest of the planet and it's occupants


I don't think you're silly. We have treated Mother Nature abysmally for far too long and now she's redressing the balance which we should have stepped up to long ago.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> I don't think you're silly. We have treated Mother Nature abysmally for far too long and now she's redressing the balance which we should have stepped up to long ago.


I've been saying we needed something like this on here for years and hardly anyone agreed with me.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sorry, but I don't see how anyone can agree that a pandemic with thousands of lives lost and millions of people suffering can be 'needed'.
I understand the theory of a natural culling being beneficial to the planet in terms of regeneration of the land etc, but find the cost too horrendous to bear.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> There is also something called T cells which are similar to antibodies which can spring into action when needed


"They" also think this is the reason for differences in male and female.
Its becoming apparent to the convalescent plasma people that many women don't have detectable antibodies required to donate.
As we know women are less likely to suffer the worst symptoms (and need to be hospitalised) at the same rate as men and they're starting to think the differences in which each fight off the virus is the reason.


----------



## Siskin

Arny said:


> "They" also think this is the reason for differences in male and female.
> Its becoming apparent to the convalescent plasma people that many women don't have detectable antibodies required to donate.
> As we know women are less likely to suffer the worst symptoms (and need to be hospitalised) at the same rate as men and they're starting to think the differences in which each fight off the virus is the reason.


That's interesting. I had been aware that men and women handle the virus differently, but not the antibody load difference. I wonder if men are more likely to lose antibodies enough so that they get the virus a second time then women as there have been a few apparent reinfection cases.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> Sorry, but I don't see how anyone can agree that a pandemic with thousands of lives lost and millions of people suffering can be 'needed'.
> I understand the theory of a natural culling being beneficial to the planet in terms of regeneration of the land etc, but find the cost too horrendous to bear.


So what's answer, they way we are going we'll starve ourselves and every other animal on the planet, if we don't die from polluting the air first.


----------



## ForestWomble

My vets has had one of their staff come down with covid, they have shut the practise where the person with the positive test last worked and are telling everyone that the other practise will remain open to emergencies only. 
I hope the person infected gets over it OK and no one else becomes ill.

On a personal note, that means I'll have to get a new appointment for Bungo.


----------



## willa

So Bristol are going into “Tier 1 plus “. Whatever that means


----------



## mrs phas

tabelmabel said:


> Hopefully you wont need to wait too long and you will be smiling again soon!


A little good news
Dentist phoned back, apologised for covid protocol and agrees that not being seen since previous dentist left is ridiculous
He's going to instruct the reception to phone and offer an appointment at my earliest convenience, to not only check my teeth, but also x-ray lower jaw and have a chat about my medication and where we go from here
So, awaiting call (why he didn't put me straight through I don't know, but I'm happy whatever) and now got to put my big girl pants on (not hard I have plenty) and get over the
Omg! It's a new dentist, I don't know him, I've never had a him, and, is he phobic trained
Collywobbles


----------



## willa

Poor you, what a terrible time you are having !
I totally get about the dentist I’m terrified of them,and I mean terrified .

Hope you get sorted soon


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> A little good news
> Dentist phoned back, apologised for covid protocol and agrees that not being seen since previous dentist left is ridiculous
> He's going to instruct the reception to phone and offer an appointment at my earliest convenience, to not only check my teeth, but also x-ray lower jaw and have a chat about my medication and where we go from here
> So, awaiting call (why he didn't put me straight through I don't know, but I'm happy whatever) and now got to put my big girl pants on (not hard I have plenty) and get over the
> Omg! It's a new dentist, I don't know him, I've never had a him, and, is he phobic trained
> Collywobbles


I'm glad you will be getting a dental appt, it's horrible when you're in pain or having a dental problem.

I'm very phobic too, haven't been for ages as I haven't got the confidence to go at the moment with Covid. I dread to think what will be found when I finally go, although everything feels ok at the moment.


----------



## Siskin

Went to see a physiotherapist in our local small hospital. It doesn’t have an A&E and are only seeing a few people. The doors are all locked so no random person can go in without an appt, which seems bizarre.

When I arrived I had to stay in the car and phone the department to say I was here, they then phoned me when they were ready. I was met at the door, I was masked, door unlocked and I was let in to use the sanitiser. Then waited at that point before being taken into the physios room. She wore a mask and shield, gloves and apron.

It was certainly worth the risk of going as she was able to examine the leg and assess muscle and my range (or lack of) movement. She was very impressed how well I’m walking and how I am able to bear my entire weight on my bad leg without falling over which is my latest achievement. It was very useful for her to see how much swelling I have and how it limits me bending the knee very much. She has given me some methods to try to see if it helps such as hot and cold packs and getting my husband to give deep tissue massage on my lower leg. She felt the walks I’ve been doing up and down the hills in the village are doing me good and to continue this without overdoing it.
Basically she felt that there was good muscle development and a good range of movement given the amount of swelling, felt really pleased and uplifted by this.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Went to see a physiotherapist in our local small hospital. It doesn't have an A&E and are only seeing a few people. The doors are all locked so no random person can go in without an appt, which seems bizarre.
> 
> When I arrived I had to stay in the car and phone the department to say I was here, they then phoned me when they were ready. I was met at the door, I was masked, door unlocked and I was let in to use the sanitiser. Then waited at that point before being taken into the physios room. She wore a mask and shield, gloves and apron.
> 
> It was certainly worth the risk of going as she was able to examine the leg and assess muscle and my range (or lack of) movement. She was very impressed how well I'm walking and how I am able to bear my entire weight on my bad leg without falling over which is my latest achievement. It was very useful for her to see how much swelling I have and how it limits me bending the knee very much. She has given me some methods to try to see if it helps such as hot and cold packs and getting my husband to give deep tissue massage on my lower leg. She felt the walks I've been doing up and down the hills in the village are doing me good and to continue this without overdoing it.
> Basically she felt that there was good muscle development and a good range of movement given the amount of swelling, felt really pleased and uplifted by this.


That's really good news, no wonder you're so pleased.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Went to see a physiotherapist in our local small hospital. It doesn't have an A&E and are only seeing a few people. The doors are all locked so no random person can go in without an appt, which seems bizarre.
> 
> When I arrived I had to stay in the car and phone the department to say I was here, they then phoned me when they were ready. I was met at the door, I was masked, door unlocked and I was let in to use the sanitiser. Then waited at that point before being taken into the physios room. She wore a mask and shield, gloves and apron.
> 
> It was certainly worth the risk of going as she was able to examine the leg and assess muscle and my range (or lack of) movement. She was very impressed how well I'm walking and how I am able to bear my entire weight on my bad leg without falling over which is my latest achievement. It was very useful for her to see how much swelling I have and how it limits me bending the knee very much. She has given me some methods to try to see if it helps such as hot and cold packs and getting my husband to give deep tissue massage on my lower leg. She felt the walks I've been doing up and down the hills in the village are doing me good and to continue this without overdoing it.
> Basically she felt that there was good muscle development and a good range of movement given the amount of swelling, felt really pleased and uplifted by this.


You'll be running around like a two year old before you know it


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> You'll be running around like a two year old before you know it


Ha ha, that would be a big shock all round, can't remember the last time I actually ran


----------



## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> She felt the walks I've been doing up and down the hills in the village are doing me good and to continue this without overdoing it.


Walking up and down moderate hills is a great way to recondition horses that have had to box rest for a while, works on most creatures really!


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Ha ha, that would be a big shock all round, can't remember the last time I actually ran


Something to aim for


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know that a lot of you won't agree, but I think we need a total lockdown *now, *if not we may be forced into one nearer to or over Christmas and that's not what people want.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> I know that a lot of you won't agree, but I think we need a total lockdown *now, *if not we may be forced into one nearer to or over Christmas and that's not what people want.


I hate the thought of it but I have to agree with you
Not wanted but needed as far as I am concerned


----------



## SusieRainbow

Bisbow said:


> I hate the thought of it but I have to agree with you
> Not wanted but needed as far as I am concerned


My area goes into tier 3 at midnight, I must say I'm quite relieved really.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> My area goes into tier 3 at midnight, I must say I'm quite relieved really.


We are in tier 2 for reasons I don't understand, I would have thought Birmingham would be in tier 3 by now.


----------



## Bisbow

We are still at the bottom tier so far but who knows how long that will last before we go up


----------



## StormyThai

Germany have announced a month long lockdown and I think France has also upped their restrictions...Germany's lockdown came as it reported a record 14,964 new confirmed cases on Wednesday, with 96 more deaths.

Considering our daily numbers far surpass Germany's I think we should be following suit


----------



## Lurcherlad

I hate the thought but what is the alternative?

A doctor said “the only way the virus can spread is if people continue to mix”, so why, oh why, can’t everyone get that?

OH’s company (a fully Covid safe office regime at not inconsiderable effort and cost btw) has just heard a (young) staff member has just tested positive so those who were back in, are now not only back to working from home (and all the hassle that is to set up etc.) but could have been infected too, potentially.

The positive staff member seems to have been infected by a friend they saw Saturday  It’s now Thursday. 

OH was asked the other week by the boss when he would be back in the office. His response was “not until this virus is under control or there is a reliable vaccine”. So no time soon.

Thank gawd he wasn’t there this week ..... we’d be extremely concerned.


----------



## Cleo38

I do not support another lock down. It didn't work before & won't again. People cannot go through that again. There needs to be another way. After having to cope with my mum's death earlier in the year there is no way I am not spending Christmas with my family. None of us vulnerable, we will take precautions & be together which IMO is very important for us at this time regardless of what 'the rules' are


----------



## Bisbow

Cleo38 said:


> I do not support another lock down. It didn't work before & won't again. People cannot go through that again. There needs to be another way. After having to cope with my mum's death earlier in the year there is no way I am not spending Christmas with my family. None of us vulnerable, we will take precautions & be together which IMO is very important for us at this time regardless of what 'the rules' are


IMO it is people with your mind set that is causing the virus to spread and making other people ill and making it worse for people trying to keep everyone else safe
Sorry if that offends you but that is how I feel
I will NOT put my family at risk


----------



## Arny

If they're not going to ramp up and increase track and trace capability afterward there is little point in another lockdown in my opinion.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I do not support another lock down. It didn't work before & won't again. People cannot go through that again. There needs to be another way. After having to cope with my mum's death earlier in the year there is no way I am not spending Christmas with my family. None of us vulnerable, we will take precautions & be together which IMO is very important for us at this time regardless of what 'the rules' are


I agree, there needs to be another way other than a blanket rule, everyone lock-down. The toll to MH alone is not worth the risk IMO. We need to protect those who are vulnerable while still allowing them to live as normal a life as possible. 
I really hate that mask wearing has become so politicized because that's probably our biggest help against this virus. If everyone would just wear a mask - correctly, we could make a huge difference. 
We've had over 500 people in the same school building since September 8, everyone wearing a mask unless outside and social distancing. One case. And those who were close contacts stayed home for 10 days and not one became infected/tested positive.

Granted Zeta got us all sitting at home today though. If the pandemic doesn't get us, the hurricane will


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had some sad news a friend we meet on holiday died yesterday from this horrible virus. She was 91 and not in the best of health but that's not the point is it, she was taken to hospital on Monday and died yesterday.

We have fond memories of her and her late husband, her sister-law and husband from when we meet them in the South of France in the 90's, we use to meet every few years down there and have kept in touch on the phone ever since. 

RIP Lovely Friend I'll miss our chats X


----------



## Cleo38

Bisbow said:


> IMO it is people with your mind set that is causing the virus to spread and making other people ill and making it worse for people trying to keep everyone else safe
> Sorry if that offends you but that is how I feel
> I will NOT put my family at risk


I am not offended at all, I have always done what I consider best during this regardless of what anyone else thinks although I disagree that it's people like me who are causing the virus to spread. I live on my own, I work from home, my contact with people is minimal & when i do then I am sensible ... surely that's a pretty good approach.

If I had listened to 'experts' then my terminally ill mum would have spent her last few months on her own being completely socially isolated & suffering. Luckily I chose to ignore them & care for her with my sister & niece. I do not understand why Covid is being given priority over other illnesses. People are dying not just because they are affected by Covid but because their treatments have been unnecessarily stopped or delayed by hospitals, being socially isolated, deteriorating in care homes as they are not having any mental/physical stimulation, taking their own lives, etc .... it's a disgrace what has been allowed to happen & threatening people with more restrictions & threats is not the way to work through this


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I do not understand why Covid is being given priority over other illnesses.


This is the part I'm struggling to understand as well. 
It made sense at the beginning of the pandemic when we had hospitals overflowing and weren't sure how the virus was going to progress, but now that we have a better idea of how to treat patients, hospitals are better able to cope, and testing is somewhat better, I don't understand why precautions for Covid-19 override everything else, including proper care for people with other illnesses.


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> I know that a lot of you won't agree, but I think we need a total lockdown *now, *if not we may be forced into one nearer to or over Christmas and that's not what people want.





Bisbow said:


> I hate the thought of it but I have to agree with you
> Not wanted but needed as far as I am concerned


I agree. 
The numbers in my area are scary, I don't understand how we are still in tier 1 and I am more scared now than I was at the beginning. I fear that if we don't act now there is going to be a lockdown over Christmas and a lot more heartache.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just had some sad news a friend we meet on holiday died yesterday from this horrible virus. She was 91 and not in the best of health but that's not the point is it, she was taken to hospital on Monday and died yesterday.
> 
> We have fond memories of her and her late husband, her sister-law and husband from when we meet them in the South of France in the 90's, we use to meet every few years down there and have kept in touch on the phone ever since.
> 
> RIP Lovely Friend I'll miss our chats X


So sorry @Happy Paws2 big hugs.


----------



## JANICE199

*I have tried to avoid posting on this subject, but there is so much confusion within the country. People haven't got a clue as to what to do for the best. You get the PM's father who thinks it's fine to ignore all the advice and carries on as if nothing is wrong. Is it any wonder people are doing the same? My own opinion ( which i know won't be popular is this). Just remember the old saying, coughs and sneezes spread diseases. ( common sense in my book)*
*I have handled this situation the same from the word go. Use my own common sense, ie. stay away from as many people as i can. But i have still had my family members visit, or we have visited them. I do NOT believe most of what we are told. I'm almost 71 and i do not intend to go with the flow. Sorry if this offends anyone, but that's me.*


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sorry for your loss @Happy Paws2


----------



## Magyarmum

In Hungary it's never been the policy to stop people from seeing their family, unless, at the height of the lockdown, they were in care homes or hospital. In any case it would have been pretty impossible to enforce it seeing that often several generations occupy the same house. 

From the 1st November there'll be tougher restrictions on closing times and smaller numbers attending gatherings, but to my mind most importantly stricter enforcement of mask wearing and social distancing.

There's also mention about bringing back OAP only shopping hours which I found saved me an awful lot of stress as I was able to shop in the hypermarket in the city without coming into contact with large numbers of people.


----------



## StormyThai

If people would just wear sodding masks or buffs or visors and keep their distance then we wouldn't need a second lockdown...however, people don't so the numbers are now crazy again.
It's all well and good relying on people to use common sense because sensible people will risk assess...but many have shown during this pandemic that common sense is not all that common


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> If people would just wear sodding masks or buffs of visors and keep their distance then we wouldn't need a second lockdown...however, people don't so the numbers are now crazy again.
> It's all well and good relying on people to use common sense because sensible people will risk assess...but many have shown during this pandemic that common sense is not all that common


Couldn't agree with you more!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Im not sure if a lockdown will actually achieve much, I think there are a lot of people out there fed up with restrictions. And lockdown or not they will still mingle.

A lockdown was brought in in March so hospitals did not get overwhelmed. And I dont think they are at the moment? I know the nightingale hospitals have not been used in almost all places though I think Manchester may have opened theirs? If there is another lockdown you can bet all services like dentists and hospital appointments will be cancelled again and you can see what it has done to people who are and will need treatment. We cannot really afford to keep locking down, look at the people who are losing their jobs or are on furlough and cant manage on the reduced income.

I dont know what the answer is but lockdown is not it. This is just the begining of winter, I have a feeling lockdown will just delay the inevitable, once its released the numbers will just rise again


----------



## HarlequinCat

StormyThai said:


> If people would just wear sodding masks or buffs of visors and keep their distance then we wouldn't need a second lockdown...however, people don't so the numbers are now crazy again.
> It's all well and good relying on people to use common sense because sensible people will risk assess...but many have shown during this pandemic that common sense is not all that common


I agree, though visors arent great for protecting you or the people around you, I understand a few people cannot wear masks but the other day i saw someone with just a little nose visor. It was just over her nose and not her whole head, no idea how she managed it


----------



## StormyThai

HarlequinCat said:


> I agree, though visors arent great for protecting you or the people around you, I understand a few people cannot wear masks but the other day i saw someone with just a little nose visor. It was just over her nose and not her whole head, no idea how she managed it


Yeah, when I say visor I should have made it clear that I meant the full face ones that you place over your head or attach to glasses.
A nose visor is about as good as mouth masks (you know the ones that apparently you don't need to cover your nose with)


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I know that a lot of you won't agree, but I think we need a total lockdown *now, *if not we may be forced into one nearer to or over Christmas and that's not what people want.


I disagree. My town has a little flair in numbers over the last two weeks, but is now reducing those numbers and the tiny area that I live in has gone from 13 to nil................it can be done


----------



## Nonnie

I do like the tier system as it doesnt punish the areas that have next to no cases.

In the village were i live the only confirmed cases (and deaths) were all in a private care home that took action pretty quickly.

Cases in surrounding areas are increasing, but everyone seems to be on the ball and taking steps to prevent a larger outbreak.

A general and severe lockdown isnt needed imo. You cant treat those who live rurally the same as those who live in towns and cities as the risk levels are different.


----------



## rona

Nonnie said:


> In the village were i live the only confirmed cases (and deaths) were all in a private care home that took action pretty quickly.


Our recent flairs have been schools


----------



## Nonnie

rona said:


> Our recent flairs have been schools


Exactly the same here. Glebelands is the only school that has had confirmed cases. I think the teenage age group seems to be higher risk as they are more likely to mix outside of school (as well as use transport, go to shops etc) too as they have a degree of freedom younger kids dont have,


----------



## O2.0

Nonnie said:


> You cant treat those who live rurally the same as those who live in towns and cities as the risk levels are different.


This is another aspect that I feel is being overlooked.

Just for comparison:
Where I live, population density is 90 people per square mile. 
New York city, 27 *thousand* people per square mile. 
And just for shits and giggles, Wyoming has a population density of 9 people per square mile. I've been there many times, it's true LOL!

NYC was decimated by Covid. We've had some issues particularly with the coast as it's a popular vacation spot, but largely unaffected.


----------



## Bisbow

Seeing the disagreement on here makes me realise how hard it is for the government. They can't win whatever they do. No one knew this was coming at the election so whoever had won would be in a right mess
Labour are quick to condemn but have not put forward any thoughts about what to do as have none of the others

I would hate to be in Boris's shoes right now with differing advice coming from all directions


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> This is another aspect that I feel is being overlooked.
> 
> Just for comparison:
> Where I live, population density is 90 people per square mile.
> New York city, 27 *thousand* people per square mile.
> And just for shits and giggles, Wyoming has a population density of 9 people per square mile. I've been there many times, it's true LOL!
> 
> NYC was decimated by Covid. We've had some issues particularly with the coast as it's a popular vacation spot, but largely unaffected.


Exactly. When we were in lockdown there was a rule that we were only supposed to be going out once a day. I went out several times as where I live I am out in the countryside, don't go near anyone's house or anything so taking the dogs out or going for a run was fine. Staying inside simply didn't make sense.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Exactly. When we were in lockdown there was a rule that we were only supposed to be going out once a day. I went out several times as where I live I am out in the countryside, don't go near anyone's house or anything so taking the dogs out or going for a run was fine. Staying inside simply didn't make sense.


Same here. 
I can walk/run for miles and not see a soul.

If I go to the grocery store during off hours I can go down every isle and maybe cross paths with one, maybe two other people (and it's usually the same person - weird how that works in grocery stores LOL).

When I go to the nearest big town, like last weekend, the store felt claustrophobic but even then it was maybe 5 people I kept running in to.


----------



## Nonnie

Cleo38 said:


> Exactly. When we were in lockdown there was a rule that we were only supposed to be going out once a day. I went out several times as where I live I am out in the countryside, don't go near anyone's house or anything so taking the dogs out or going for a run was fine. Staying inside simply didn't make sense.


Loads of people in my area jumped on the 'hours exercise a day' suggestion like it was a new law.

I still walked 5 to 6 hours a day, and rarely saw a soul.

Staying inside made no sense.


----------



## MilleD

My area is going into tier 2 on Saturday. Makes little practical difference to me personally, because I'm following the rules and being careful.

I did think that lockdowns were the answer but I think I've done a 180.

People aren't complying with the rules that are in place so why will they comply with more?

I reckon let everyone out, spend the money that would have been spent on closing businesses/furlough/tax breaks on increasing medical capacity - tricky I know if we don't have enough manpower, but that's up to the powers that be.

Yes, certain people will need to be more careful, but that would boil down to doing your own risk assessment.

At this rate, we will end up with a collapsed economy for no gain as people will not comply and numbers will continue to increase.

Had enough now.


----------



## Cully

Covid isn't going away so the only thing we can do is ensure the hospitals are free to admit those suffering from the normal winter illnesses, and not be overwhelmed by an influx of additional covid patients.
We can't continue to put off treating those with serious illness like cancer and heart problems, and must ensure referals are dealt with swiftly. At the moment they are contributing to an increase in preventable deaths.
Once spring arrives and winter illness season is over we can hopefully relax rules again. But for the moment we must all do our bit to protect ourselves and each other (including strangers).
I think there will inevitably be another total lockdown so the sooner the better Imo. It probably wouldn't be necessary if only everyone had obeyed the rules in the first place, especially those who treat it as some kind of game, trying to beat the system, or just sticking their heads in the sand. And those thinking they are above the rules (law). It's a deadly virus you idiots, not a video game!:Banghead


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> So sorry @Happy Paws2 big hugs.





Lurcherlad said:


> Sorry for your loss @Happy Paws2


Thank You X


----------



## Happy Paws2

I had a telephone consultation from the hospital at 2.30 afternoon, still waiting. What a waste an afternoon when I could have been out having fun (only joking)


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I had a telephone consultation from the hospital at 2.30 afternoon, still waiting. What a waste an afternoon when I could have been out having fun (only joking)


Are they normally that bad?

OH and friend both had one today and they both came more or less on time


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Are they normally that bad?
> 
> OH and friend both had one today and they both came more or less on time


OH missed his phone appointment with the cancer team as it came an hour late. He had set an alarm so he wouldn't miss it whilst working, which is exactly what did happen when it finally came as he was on a call with work.

He got a letter a few days later with a new phone appointment for January. It did say his bloods were normal, so hopefully, all is well.

I told him to ring anyway and ask if he was to be sent for follow up scans as waiting until after the January call could create months of delay.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Are they normally that bad?
> 
> OH and friend both had one today and they both came more or less on time


No normally they are earlier than they say.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> No normally they are earlier than they say.


One wonders if they have some kind of emergency.


----------



## willa

All over the news that London has the highest “R rate” , almost at 3.
Tier 3 incoming surely


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> One wonders if they have some kind of emergency.


That's the only thing I can think of. 
It was only for a chat to see how I was getting on, nothing important so I'll give it few days and then I might phone and find out what's happening.


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> All over the news that London has the highest "R rate" , almost at 3.
> Tier 3 incoming surely


Eek. That will be me . I had an email consultation with my RA consultant a while back . I have an appointment with the nurse in the rheumatoid nurse for an assessment next week. I had a blood test this week and pooped in to see what it was like. It was empty and a few chairs far apart from each which reassured me.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> This is another aspect that I feel is being overlooked.
> 
> Just for comparison:
> Where I live, population density is 90 people per square mile.
> New York city, 27 *thousand* people per square mile.
> And just for shits and giggles, Wyoming has a population density of 9 people per square mile. I've been there many times, it's true LOL!
> 
> NYC was decimated by Covid. We've had some issues particularly with the coast as it's a popular vacation spot, but largely unaffected.


The county I live in has a population density of 70 people per square mile. It's also the second largest county in Hungary and mainly rural. At present however we have the highest rate of infection, apart from Budapest and Pest county, than any other county in Hungary.

I can only think of two reasons why this is so. Firstly, because it's one of the main routes to Budapest and beyond, the Slovakia/ Hungary border about 20 miles from where I live, is still open to commercial vehicles, many coming not only from Slovakia but Poland and Ukraine.

Secondly, and I think more importantly, they're in the middle of constructing a new motorway which goes through the county to Slovakia and brings in hundreds of construction workers and vehicles from all over Hungary and neighbouring countries.. I could be wrong but I imagine this must add to the increase in infection rates.

But whatever it's all very scary!


----------



## laugher

Siskin said:


> Although it would appear that there are less or apparently no antibodies some months after a covid infection, scientists do say that it's possible that the antibodies are still there, but not in enough numbers to register in the tests, but can still protect. There is also something called T cells which are similar to antibodies which can spring into action when needed


Indeed, any discussion about antibodies should also focus on T cells. Thanks for bringing that up. It provides a more complete picture.


----------



## kimthecat

kimthecat said:


> Eek. That will be me . I had an email consultation with my RA consultant a while back . I have an appointment with the nurse in the rheumatoid nurse for an assessment next week. I had a blood test this week and pooped in to see what it was like. It was empty and a few chairs far apart from each which reassured me.


pooped ! :Hilarious should be popped.

FFS Just had an sms text from NHS saying my appointment has been changed to phone consultation !!  I need to be assessed in person and if Nice approve I can have the infusions. They do this because its very expensive. Waiting to hear back from Arthritis centre to see whats going on.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> I reckon let everyone out, spend the money that would have been spent on closing businesses/furlough/tax breaks on increasing medical capacity - tricky I know if we don't have enough manpower, but that's up to the powers that be.


We _don't _have enough manpower. The NHS barely survived the first wave without collapsing _despite _lockdown AND putting students and retirees on the front lines, and you can't just magic more medical staff from thin air.

Viruses cannot be 'cured' medically, all you can do is try to keep the host body alive until it can successfully deal with the invasion itself. The ONLY way to control a viral outbreak is by limiting person to person contact along whichever vectors the virus proves to be most contagious, which means (unfortunately) you are reduced to relying on everyone choosing to do the right thing to best protect everyone else...


----------



## Siskin

I was watching the BBC evening news when they interviewed what can only be called Mr Stupid. Amongst other things he said whilst wearing his mask not over his nose was, ‘well, rules are meant to broken aren’t they’. Idiot.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I was watching the BBC evening news when they interviewed what can only be called Mr Stupid. Amongst other things he said whilst wearing his mask not over his nose was, 'well, rules are meant to broken aren't they'. Idiot.


OH saw that, Is he the one that went form tier 3 down the road to tier 2 for a drink.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> I had a blood test this week and pooped in to see what it was like.:Turtle.


Did they make you clean it up?:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH saw that, Is he the one that went form tier 3 down the road to tier 2 for a drink.


Yep that's the one


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> If people would just wear sodding masks or buffs or visors and keep their distance then we wouldn't need a second lockdown...however, people don't so the numbers are now crazy again.
> It's all well and good relying on people to use common sense because sensible people will risk assess...but many have shown during this pandemic that common sense is not all that common


we went away this weekend up to Wroxham in the broads in Norfolk and refused to leave the car. You'd honestly not think it was a pandemic, people walking without any care or distancing over a narrow footbridge over the water and it's not even wide enough to distance. No masks nothing. It's small pockets like this which can escalate the virus.

And tonight's 'leak' about a national lockdown is appallingly handled. Cue a mass panic and the useless arses in charge using the Daily Wail and the Times to test the waters. I don't disagree with a lockdown but it has to be a proper one - other islands kept cases low, we had every opportunity to do the same. A lockdown is pointless if we have no quarantine at airports and schools remain open.


----------



## willa

Another National Lockdown ... Well not for me, as nurseries staying open ‍♀‍♀‍♀


----------



## Lurcherlad

If people had followed SD guidelines the virus would not have continued to be passed on so readily.

Quote
*Covid: Anti-masker who caught virus had 'worst two weeks'*

Covid: Anti-masker who caught virus had 'worst two weeks'

A man who refused to wear a mask to protect himself from Covid-19 after believing fake theories about the disease has said battling the virus was "the worst two weeks of my life".

Trevor Jones from Bolton said he initially listened to those who told him coronavirus was "man flu" or linked to the 5G network, but became gravely ill after testing positive in September.

He received critical care in hospital and "lost a stone and a half in 12 days".

He said his experience had changed his views on the virus and hoped it would help alter the attitudes of others too.
Unquote

How many people did he infect before he was out of circulation?


----------



## Lurcherlad

And elsewhere ....

Quote 
*Coronavirus: Hundreds gather in Madrid for anti-mask protest*

Coronavirus: Hundreds gather in Madrid for anti-mask protest

Crowds of protesters gathered in the Spanish capital on Sunday to voice their opposition the mandatory use of face masks and other measures imposed to contain the spread of coronavirus.
Unquote


----------



## lorilu

Apparently weddings and birthday parties are the super spreaders in my area. All the mask ordinances we have now, but people continue to have weddings and birthday parties in large maskless groups and within a week or so we get new spikes, more people in enforced quarantine and so on.

I am grateful my place of employment remains closed to the public. We still have limited number of people allowed in the building/each office suite at any one time, so flex time is also still happening and I take advantage of that too. I make every effort to continue to provide the services our city residents require from my position, and most seem appreciative. 

Prices of everything except gasoline have shot up though and I wonder how families manage. I only go to the grocery store every 3 weeks, and basically buy the same things every time, and my total grocery bill has tripled and each time I go I dread how much higher it will be than last time.. How on earth do people feed their families. I'm only one person and 2 raw fed cats and my total was $190 last time, and that was after coupons..

I wanted to buy some new chairs for my living room, I only have one and it's broken, and, while I did budget for this, I was waiting for sales, but the sales never come. The prices are outrageous and I refuse to be gouged on a luxury item like new living room chairs.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> we went away this weekend up to Wroxham in the broads in Norfolk and refused to leave the car. You'd honestly not think it was a pandemic, people walking without any care or distancing over a narrow footbridge over the water and it's not even wide enough to distance. No masks nothing. It's small pockets like this which can escalate the virus.
> 
> And tonight's 'leak' about a national lockdown is appallingly handled. Cue a mass panic and the useless arses in charge using the Daily Wail and the Times to test the waters. I don't disagree with a lockdown but it has to be a proper one - other islands kept cases low, we had every opportunity to do the same. A lockdown is pointless if we have no quarantine at airports and schools remain open.


I agree the way this was handled at the start was atrocious we could have done so much better.

A second lockdown whilst looking necessary will be the final nail in the coffin for some businesses and jobs. Never mind having Christmas people won't be able to feed their families if this goes on. We need a proper plan not constant u turns.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Damn, this is the worst time. OHs father has finally got a date for his hip Op for mid to late Nov. Have to try and find out if it will still go ahead.

I feel sorry for the small businesses having to shut at the most important time of year. I know the numbers are bad for coronavirus but like I said is lockdown worth it? Mental health for a lot of people is deteriorating, suicide is up, people are in pain or in life threatening situations because the hospital has still got to catch up from the last lockdown.


----------



## willa

Hospitals will be overwhelmed by Christmas,if we don’t lock down again


----------



## willa

Well I say Lockdown, I mean I’ll still be travelling to and from work everyday on the tubes in London. 
Nursery teacher life ‍♀‍♀ Which the Government dont think about


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> Damn, this is the worst time. OHs father has finally got a date for his hip Op for mid to late Nov. Have to try and find out if it will still go ahead.
> 
> I feel sorry for the small businesses having to shut at the most important time of year. I know the numbers are bad for coronavirus but like I said is lockdown worth it? Mental health for a lot of people is deteriorating, suicide is up, people are in pain or in life threatening situations because the hospital has still got to catch up from the last lockdown.


Maybe the "leak" of another full lockdown is to try and convince the naysayers and Mavericks to follow the rules?


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Well I say Lockdown, I mean I'll still be travelling to and from work everyday on the tubes in London.
> Nursery teacher life ‍♀‍♀ Which the Government dont think about


Surely, it's actually because kids need to be looked after while their parents (some being frontline key workers .... NHS, Police, fire fighters, teachers, etc.) carry on working?


----------



## willa

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, it's actually because kids need to be looked after while their parents (some being frontline key workers .... NHS, Police, fire fighters, teachers, etc.) carry on working?


In the first lockdown they only kept a chosen few nurseries open ... All other nurseries and schools shut.

I just feel if we are locking down it needs to be done properly


----------



## rona

Numbers are still failing in my town, in fact, in my little corner of the town that had a 17 cases in one day a couple of weeks ago, we now have unregistered, which means 0-2 case.

The whole area was dark blue on the map just a few days ago, now it's green and white.
It can be done if everyone behaves. However, we are surrounded by a sea of blue


----------



## Jobeth

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, it's actually because kids need to be looked after while their parents (some being frontline key workers .... NHS, Police, fire fighters, teachers, etc.) carry on working?


I hope that schools are staying open because it is important for children's mental health and they deserve an education! As schools stayed open to the children of key workers last time I suspect that they are viewed as a child sitting service.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jobeth said:


> I hope that schools are staying open because it is important for children's mental health and they deserve an education! As schools stayed open to the children of key workers last time I suspect that they are viewed as a child sitting service.


Well, I don't think there's any doubt it is important for the kids and if it means the economy is able to survive too, then great.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> I hope that schools are staying open because it is important for children's mental health and they deserve an education! As schools stayed open to the children of key workers last time I suspect that they are viewed as a child sitting service.


Schools, colleges, universities etc have been open here since September 1st. A few were forced to close temporarily due to infection. It's half term at the moment and the military are disinfecting schools prior to them re-opening.

Shops, businesses, restaurants etc are open also, but some with restricted working hours. The government has taken a slightly different attitude to the UK, in that it's tightened rules on mask wearing, social distancing and quarantine, making the fines for flaunting the rules very severe.


----------



## Jobeth

Magyarmum said:


> Schools, colleges, universities etc have been open here since September 1st. A few were forced to close temporarily due to infection. It's half term at the moment and the military are disinfecting schools prior to them re-opening.


Very few schools in the locality have had to close completely and mostly it's just been class/year group bubbles. I would have thought that if no one went in over half term then any trace of the virus would be gone anyway.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> Very few schools in the locality have had to close completely and mostly it's just been class/year group bubbles. I would have thought that if no one went in over half term then any trace of the virus would be gone anyway.


The Hungarian school year is different to the UK one. The present break is only a few days which the powers that be have deemed not to be long enough for the virus to disappear completely..


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Did they make you clean it up?:Hilarious


Yeah! Luckily I had a doggy poo bag with me. :Hilarious


----------



## willa

Cabinet meeting this afternoon., about the leaked info lastnight .
But someone has also leaked the info about the cabinet meeting happening .


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Hospitals will be overwhelmed by Christmas,if we don't lock down again


and If we don't lockdown now, Christmas will be completely canceled, not that would worry me.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Happy Paws2 said:


> and If we don't lockdown now, Christmas will be completely canceled, not that would worry me.


To be fair households shouldn't really mix this Christmas, it would be too risky. Christmas wouldnt be cancelled, just a bit different.


----------



## Happy Paws2

HarlequinCat said:


> To be fair households shouldn't really mix this Christmas, it would be too risky. Christmas wouldnt be cancelled, just a bit different.


We can only hope people do as they are told, but I doubt all will.


----------



## Siskin

We’re planning a zoom Christmas which will be happy enough


----------



## Guest

The news has been going on and on about a second lockdown in England and the PM is announcing something at 5pm. I welcome a second lockdown as people will not obey the rules and this should have been done weeks ago. Let's see what Boris says at 5pm.


----------



## Siskin

rawpawsrus said:


> The news has been going on and on about a second lockdown in England and the PM is announcing something at 5pm. I welcome a second lockdown as people will not obey the rules and this should have been done weeks ago. Let's see what Boris says at 5pm.


Although I really don't want to have another lockdown especially as we are in a very low infection area, I agree with you. People just won't obey the rules in the slightest and seem not to care about anyone else bar themselves. 
It seems there is a a levelling off of infection rates in the north west area which have been in tier 3.


----------



## willa

Seen the restrictions and that Johnson will announce.
All restaurants, pubs, shops to close. Just food and chemists to remain open. gyms etc to close
No mixing households. All International Travel banned. Travel within UK discouraged.

Schools etc to stay open


----------



## Guest

willa said:


> Seen the restrictions and that Johnson will announce.
> All restaurants, pubs, shops to close. Just food and chemists to remain open. gyms etc to close
> No mixing households. All International Travel banned. Travel within UK discouraged.
> 
> Schools etc to stay open


I thought all international travel was already not allowed unless absolutely necessary?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Are operations still going to happen? Does anyone know?

Cant help but think if no one follows the rules they will still find ways to break lock down rules


----------



## Elles

Why do they keep letting university kids run riot? Imo no point in a lockdown unless they close universities, especially where they can learn from home. People have been getting degrees with the OU for years.


----------



## Boxer123

Elles said:


> Why do they keep letting university kids run riot? Imo no point in a lockdown unless they close universities, especially where they can learn from home. People have been getting degrees with the OU for years.


I don't know why they didn't go online this term no moving at all. Apparently it's so landlords don't lose out but it's ridiculous.


----------



## MollySmith

FFS they can’t even get the time of the press conference right. It was 4pm, then 5, now maybe 6.30.


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> Why do they keep letting university kids run riot? Imo no point in a lockdown unless they close universities, especially where they can learn from home. People have been getting degrees with the OU for years.


I've studied both OU and brick (and lectured) and both are very different set ups. It's not as easy as just moving online due to the way material is supplied and taught. Universities are catching up fast and many are going online but the OU have been doing this for a lot longer - and not without problems.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MollySmith said:


> FFS they can't even get the time of the press conference right. It was 4pm, then 5, now maybe 6.30.


To be fair it has had to be rushed forward. They were expecting to announce it on Monday but had to bring it forward now because of the leaks. I'm sure they need to get their facts mostly right


----------



## MollySmith

HarlequinCat said:


> To be fair it has had to be rushed forward. They were expecting to announce it on Monday but had to bring it forward now because of the leaks. I'm sure they need to get their facts mostly right


It's such a botch job, nobody should be leaking this and then getting the PM to confirm.


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ is later or is he frightened to speak to us as his doing another U-turn.


----------



## willa

Most concerned that it’ll clash with Strictly!


----------



## MollySmith

According to Independent Sage on BBC News now, lockdown with schools open, in 5-6 weeks the cases can come down to 5,000. But only if the government improve the test and trace system, so that people who are infectious isolate in hotels and have financial support to remove themselves from society completely.


----------



## Blackadder

HarlequinCat said:


> I'm sure they need to get their facts mostly right


Which facts though? Sage & the Doom brothers (Whittey & Valance) or multiple different facts depending on which epidemioligist you listen to...

We're in a bad way now, another "lockdown" will be a disaster in so many ways & for no good reason... it doesn't work!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Most concerned that it'll clash with Strictly!


in that case Strictly will win, BJ will on the news all night.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Blackadder said:


> Which facts though? Sage & the Doom brothers (Whittey & Valance) or multiple different facts depending on which epidemioligist you listen to...
> 
> We're in a bad way now, another "lockdown" will be a disaster in so many ways & for no good reason... it doesn't work!!


I was being a little facetious there, hard to tell through text!

I agree about lockdown though


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I've studied both OU and brick (and lectured) and both are very different set ups. It's not as easy as just moving online due to the way material is supplied and taught. Universities are catching up fast and many are going online but the OU have been doing this for a lot longer - and not without problems.


A friend's daughter is at uni and all learning is on line there, so she definitely could have carried on from home.

They aren't following SD guidelines there and households are mixing, so the virus continues to spread.

As for landlords losing out, the students have signed leases to honour so I don't think they were allowed back to protect them tbh.


----------



## LinznMilly

willa said:


> Most concerned that it'll clash with Strictly!


Lol. I love your priorities. Never mind the announcement, what about Strictly?. :Hilarious

(I've got Strictly on Series link  )


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> A friend's daughter is at uni and all learning is on line there, so she definitely could have carried on from home.
> 
> They aren't following SD guidelines there and households are mixing, so the virus continues to spread.
> 
> As for landlords losing out, the students have signed leases to honour so I don't think they were allowed back to protect them tbh.


Most of the colleges in the University are all online but not all, the city university already was because they have students from overseas so I guess it depends on preparedness. Our R rate has increased since term went back and lots of people are blaming students but there's very few here,


----------



## Guest

My concern is keeping the Universities open. The students will party and have fun, they aren't bothered about the £10,000 fines for organising parties as some have already been fined. I think this needs to be tougher for example sort prison sentence of something that will get it through to those insistent throwing parties to think twice about it.


----------



## MollySmith

Giving the PR a bit of a 'Strictly' feel


----------



## LittleEms

Most cases in my closest city are in the university, there’s very little in the actual community. However our Covid hospital is about to reopen because Plymouth and Torquay are overwhelmed and we have to pick up their excess Covid patients.


----------



## Siskin

Well I’m sure Boris is doing this deliberately just to annoy those who want to watch Strictly.

Much better that they cross all the arks and dot the I’s as much as possible before announcing this, don’t you think


----------



## Siskin

LittleEms said:


> Most cases in my closest city are in the university, there's very little in the actual community. However our Covid hospital is about to reopen because Plymouth and Torquay are overwhelmed and we have to pick up their excess Covid patients.


We had a very low rate in my area until the Royal Ag students turned up


----------



## LittleEms

Siskin said:


> We had a very low rate in my area until the Royal Ag students turned up


Yes we had virtually none until the uni opened! I'm not overly worried yet as like I said it is confined to the campus, but we shall see when they start bringing in Covid patients from elsewhere.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Well I'm sure Boris is doing this deliberately just to annoy those who want to watch Strictly.
> 
> *Much better that they cross all the arks and dot the I's as much as possible before announcing this, don't you think*


Did anyone really mean it's wasn't, it was said tongue in cheek! anyway I'll tape him if he does, I can watch him anytime.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> Well I'm sure Boris is doing this deliberately just to annoy those who want to watch Strictly.
> 
> Much better that they cross all the arks and dot the I's as much as possible before announcing this, don't you think


Can be pretty certain that what ever Johnson comes out with will not have dot`s and crosses in place, no doubt he will be as clear as mud and his ministers will be doing the rounds tomorrow trying to clear up the waffle and add some clarity!


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> Can be pretty certain that what ever Johnson comes out with will not have dot`s and crosses in place, no doubt he will be as clear as mud and his ministers will be doing the rounds tomorrow trying to clear up the waffle and add some clarity!


True he always stutters, um's and are's his way though his speeches and then leaves the cabinet it explain what he meant. That's if they have clue what he said.


----------



## LittleEms

Happy Paws2 said:


> Did anyone really mean it's wasn't, it was said tongue in cheek! anyway I'll tape him if he does, I can watch him anytime.


I personally reckon he's watching the rugby! Hehe


----------



## Happy Paws2

LittleEms said:


> I personally reckon he's watching the rugby! Hehe


He better sort it out there's another game on at 8.10


----------



## Boxer123




----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 453308


Brilliant


----------



## SbanR

Hahahahaha. Strictly has won out @willa


----------



## mrs phas

Well my poor aunt......
lived alone all her life
Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
And now
will be buried alone

I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Stay at home. Smash the economy. Destroy lives.


----------



## Guest

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a longer lockdown until they have a workable vaccine or they have really got on top of this virus instead of having short lockdowns? I understand it impacts the economy but aren't people's lives more important?


----------



## Guest

If we come out of the lockdown on the 2nd December we will all be in lockdown again before Spring, this will become a vicious circle.


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> Well my poor aunt......
> lived alone all her life
> Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
> And now
> will be buried alone
> 
> I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


That is sad 

Was nobody in regular contact with her?


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> Well my poor aunt......
> lived alone all her life
> Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
> And now
> will be buried alone
> 
> I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


That's so sad, sorry for your loss.


----------



## Elles

MollySmith said:


> I've studied both OU and brick (and lectured) and both are very different set ups. It's not as easy as just moving online due to the way material is supplied and taught. Universities are catching up fast and many are going online but the OU have been doing this for a lot longer - and not without problems.


In today's changing world, large institutions and government bodies need to adapt and change quickly. If we can't adjust to teach at least some students and subjects from home in the U.K., how can we expect to turn around global warming in less than a decade? I think we probably all agree, or at least some of will, that some subjects are trivial and unnecessary, not worth spreading a pandemic over. Our future expectations might need adjusting too. When Biden gets in he is going to end fracking and phase out oil. Educators and people will need to change, adjusting to covid is nothing to what we should be doing.


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> Well my poor aunt......
> lived alone all her life
> Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
> And now
> will be buried alone
> 
> I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


I am so sorry for your loss, that is very sad.


----------



## MollySmith

3dogs2cats said:


> Can be pretty certain that what ever Johnson comes out with will not have dot`s and crosses in place, no doubt he will be as clear as mud and his ministers will be doing the rounds tomorrow trying to clear up the waffle and add some clarity!


Full Fact have been offering to work with 10 Downing Street for months to improve communication and clarity but have never been taken up on it. https://fullfact.org/


----------



## Blackadder

rawpawsrus said:


> If we come out of the lockdown on the 2nd December we will all be in lockdown again before Spring, this will become a vicious circle.


Yep, there is no "end game". What we now have is a lockdown that isn't a lockdown! Schools & Unis (the biggest driver of infection) remain open while pubs, restaurants etc must close along with many other "non essential" shops/businesses leading to massive closures & job losses.

I never thought I would say this about any politician but I feel sorry for Boris, he's been thrown into the middle of a whirlwind, having to listen to all sides & having to make a decision.... I don't blame him at all but he's made the wrong one IMO


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> In today's changing world, large institutions and government bodies need to adapt and change quickly. If we can't adjust to teach at least some students and subjects from home in the U.K., how can we expect to turn around global warming in less than a decade? I think we probably all agree, or at least some of will, that some subjects are trivial and unnecessary, not worth spreading a pandemic over. Our future expectations might need adjusting too. When Biden gets in he is going to end fracking and phase out oil, educators and people will need to change, adjusting to covid is nothing to what we should be doing.


I take it you've never had to submit an invoice to a University for payment


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Well my poor aunt......
> lived alone all her life
> Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
> And now
> will be buried alone
> 
> I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


so sorry to you and @Happy Paws2 for your recent losses.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> so sorry to you and @Happy Paws2 for your recent losses.


Thank you X


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> That is sad
> 
> Was nobody in regular contact with her?


I called her twice a week, she lived in tower Hamlets, and I tried so hard to get her to transfer up here, but, she'd lived there since 70's and she didn't want to leave, you know how people can be as they get older ( he worries me too, he too lives alone, his daughter lives in France)
Her brother drove from canvey island three times a week until his latest TIA (aug) when he was diagnosed with vascular dementia
Thankfully the district nurse came to give her an injection for pernicious anaemia, saw her slumped in the chair, through the window, called police and they broke in
She was 84, lived a full life which she enjoyed and died at home, so not the worse way to go
I just wish she hadn't been alone


----------



## Lurcherlad

Hopefully, she didn’t know much about it.


----------



## HarlequinCat

rawpawsrus said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense to have a longer lockdown until they have a workable vaccine or they have really got on top of this virus instead of having short lockdowns? I understand it impacts the economy but aren't people's lives more important?


But lockdown resulted in a high number of non covid related deaths too, either because people feared going to a&e too much and catching covid than their health condition. Or from not being able to get an appointment for cancer etc. They estimate 75000 deaths over next 5 years because of delays caused by the first lockdown. I can only see more of the same for a second or extended lockdown.

If we lockdown for the whole of winter that would be catastrophic, the government dont have unlimited funds for furlough. People would lose their jobs or homes.


----------



## Lurcherlad

None of it has been/is ideal.

What is the answer?


----------



## Guest

None of this is ideal at all but it is going to become the new normal.


----------



## Guest

Personally I do not know what the answer is


----------



## Happy Paws2

[QUOTE="Blackadder, post: 1065686823, member: 1417418"

I never thought I would say this about any politician but I feel sorry for Boris, he's been thrown into the middle of a whirlwind, having to listen to all sides & having to make a decision.... I don't blame him at all but he's made the wrong one IMO[/QUOTE]

But is it his decision alone or is are there others behind the scenes that are making the decisions.


----------



## Guest

Happy Paws2 said:


> [QUOTE="Blackadder, post: 1065686823, member: 1417418"
> 
> I never thought I would say this about any politician but I feel sorry for Boris, he's been thrown into the middle of a whirlwind, having to listen to all sides & having to make a decision.... I don't blame him at all but he's made the wrong one IMO


But is it his decision alone or is are there others behind the scenes that are making the decisions.[/QUOTE]
Parliament get to vote on his decision on Wednesday.


----------



## Guest

rawpawsrus said:


> But is it his decision alone or is are there others behind the scenes that are making the decisions.


Parliament get to vote on his decision on Wednesday.[/QUOTE]
So it isn't the PM's decision alone. Parliament get a chance to amend it.


----------



## Guest

*These are the new restrictions for England:*


Only leave your home for specific reasons - education, work if you cannot work from home, exercise, medical reasons, to escape injury or harm, shop for food and essentials, and provide care for vulnerable people, or as a volunteer
No mixing of households inside homes, except for childcare and other support
No mixing of households outside, including in gardens and public places
All pubs, bars and restaurants to close - takeaways and deliveries allowed
All non-essential retail to close but supermarkets can still sell non-essential goods - click and collect can continue

Leisure and entertainment venues to close, including gyms
International travel out of the UK banned, except for work
Travel within the UK discouraged, except for work
Work places should stay open where people cannot work from home
Support bubbles remain
Children allowed to move between homes if parents separated
Outdoor exercise and recreation encouraged and is unlimited - only with your household/bubble, on your own or with one other person from a different household (golf is not allowed)
People can sit on park benches and have picnics as long as it is with their household
Services in places of worship banned but private prayer permitted
Funerals allowed with close family members only
Manufacturing and construction to continue
Childcare settings, schools, colleges and universities to remain open
Playgrounds to remain open
Vets to remain open
Courts to remain open
Professional sports allowed but amateur sports are not
Premier League matches will go ahead
Scotland has a four-tier system in place, with different areas under different levels of restriction.

Northern Ireland is under a four-week circuit breaker that started on 16 October.

Wales is under a two-week "firebreak" system that will end on 9 November.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939


----------



## Guest

Who's going to have a picnic at this time of year


----------



## LittleEms

HarlequinCat said:


> But lockdown resulted in a high number of non covid related deaths too, either because people feared going to a&e too much and catching covid than their health condition. Or from not being able to get an appointment for cancer etc. They estimate 75000 deaths over next 5 years because of delays caused by the first lockdown. I can only see more of the same for a second or extended lockdown.
> 
> If we lockdown for the whole of winter that would be catastrophic, the government dont have unlimited funds for furlough. People would lose their jobs or homes.


I see both sides of the lockdown purely because of what you've said. I totally understand the need for it to happen, but at the same time the last lockdown caused the death of my Nan from cancer. The hospital was so overwhelmed that they missed the tumour for 6 weeks and by the time they got round to offering her treatment she was too weak and died shortly after.

There needs to be some sort of middle ground where essential things like cancer treatment isn't messed up and pushed to the side.


----------



## HarlequinCat

LittleEms said:


> I see both sides of the lockdown purely because of what you've said. I totally understand the need for it to happen, but at the same time the last lockdown caused the death of my Nan from cancer. The hospital was so overwhelmed that they missed the tumour for 6 weeks and by the time they got round to offering her treatment she was too weak and died shortly after.
> 
> There needs to be some sort of middle ground where essential things like cancer treatment isn't messed up and pushed to the side.


Sorry to hear about your nan @LittleEms it really is tough at the moment.

Hopefully the vaccine is available soon and takes the pressure off a little


----------



## MollySmith

Blackadder said:


> Yep, there is no "end game". What we now have is a lockdown that isn't a lockdown! Schools & Unis (the biggest driver of infection) remain open while pubs, restaurants etc must close along with many other "non essential" shops/businesses leading to massive closures & job losses.
> 
> I never thought I would say this about any politician but I feel sorry for Boris, he's been thrown into the middle of a whirlwind, having to listen to all sides & having to make a decision.... I don't blame him at all but he's made the wrong one IMO


 I wrote on here way back in March that I felt sorry for him but later found out he missed meeting with Cobra, leaders of other countries and even the English Football League called off games before the March lockdown. He did nothing to apologise for Cummings or his odious father and awarded contracts under highly dubious circumstances for numerous Covid related services. He boasted it was fine to shake hands undoubtedly passing the virus and false confidences to his followers when he would have had access to the science. He hasn't uttered one clear sentence since it began, capitulates easier than my dog when offered a rich tea biscuit and seems intent on pushing this country through Brexit when we are far from equipped to deal with the fall out like a zealot.

nah no sympathy whatsoever, any shred when last week over the meals when he claimed it was tough on his salary. But he's good on Have I Got News For You and less dangerous.


----------



## SbanR

mrs phas said:


> Well my poor aunt......
> lived alone all her life
> Died alone, heart failure in her armchair, not found for 48hr
> And now
> will be buried alone
> 
> I only hope that her internment, proposed for spring, will be a more family affair


I'm sorry for your loss.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rawpawsrus said:


> Who's going to have a picnic at this time of year


We will 

I'd prepared already for alfresco dining going forward anyway to continue to support our local cafes, etc..... warm coat, leg warmers, fleece, heat pads, hat, gloves and fishing brolly! 

We'll go back to takeaway and sitting in the car for shelter and warmth.


----------



## Lurcherlad

@LittleEms

Sorry for your loss


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> Parliament get to vote on his decision on Wednesday.


So it isn't the PM's decision alone. Parliament get a chance to amend it.[/QUOTE]

I know that but I'd like to know who is behind the decision his made. Not that I think it's the wrong one, it should have been done weeks ago and we'd be coming out of it now instead of just starting.


----------



## kimthecat

Sorry to hear of bereavements. My nephews friend died a few months ago , in his 39s . he had cancer but died of Covid, only in his 30s.

Have a plumber coming on tues to replace my kitchen taps ,he was supposed to come last week but all the workmen here have been so busy catching up . 
I assume its allowed . The taps are leaking badly and I use a tap turner but they wont go any tighter and Im having trouble even turning them as my grip is so very poor now,. In getting ones where you push the handle to make it easier for me.


----------



## SbanR

kimthecat said:


> Sorry to hear of bereavements. My nephews friend died a few months ago , in his 39s . he had cancer but died of Covid, only in his 30s.
> 
> Have a plumber coming on tues to replace my kitchen taps ,he was supposed to come last week but all the workmen here have been so busy catching up .
> I assume its allowed . The taps are leaking badly and I use a tap turner but they wont go any tighter and Im having trouble even turning them as my grip is so very poor now,. In getting ones where you push the handle to make it easier for me.


Yes, its allowed but Do Not change the appointment or you might not see him for ages!!

My plumber was going to come on the 10th (boiler and gas fire service) but kindly said he'll come this Tuesday instead
He, and his dad before him, looked after my gas fire n central heating going back years.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> I wrote on here way back in March that I felt sorry for him but later found out he missed meeting with Cobra, leaders of other countries and even the English Football League called off games before the March lockdown. He did nothing to apologise for Cummings or his odious father and awarded contracts under highly dubious circumstances for numerous Covid related services. He boasted it was fine to shake hands undoubtedly passing the virus and false confidences to his followers when he would have had access to the science. He hasn't uttered one clear sentence since it began, capitulates easier than my dog when offered a rich tea biscuit and seems intent on pushing this country through Brexit when we are far from equipped to deal with the fall out like a zealot.
> 
> nah no sympathy whatsoever, any shred when last week over the meals when he claimed it was tough on his salary. But he's good on Have I Got News For You and less dangerous.


I shall save my sympathies for the key workers and families, friends of those who have lost loved ones. It is horrible and frightening to be placed in the position of following so called leaders who have been so tardy.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm still not sure about keeping the schools open, surely it's still going to spread the virus around.


----------



## LittleEms

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm still not sure about keeping the schools open, surely it's still going to spread the virus around.


I think schools is the biggest dilemma. It's so important for children to be able to attend but it's hard to keep them safe.
I don't know if they did it nationwide, but the schools near me did 2 year groups a day when they first reopened and that seemed to work well. The rest of the days they had online learning, but everyone got at least one day a week in person with a teacher.


----------



## StormyThai

The scientists/epidemiologists/SAGE say that we should be closing schools during the second lockdown...The schools would not need to close if this government hadn't dithered.
The latest ONS survey of infections found that “older teenagers and young adults continue to have the highest positivity rates, while rates appear to be steeply increasing among secondary schoolchildren”.

I know that online learning isn't ideal...but times are changing and there has been long enough for systems to have been put in place to make things smoother...people have been distance learning for decades for goodness sake.
I'm very glad that my sister is still home schooling my nephew because kids are not able to social distance.


----------



## CollieSlave

It seems some Tory MPs object to the action of Boris in introducing a new lockdown. How about this for an 'intelligent' point of view -

Iain Duncan Smith " accused the prime minister of "giving in to the scientific advisers".

Sir Iain said the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) had "pressurised" the government into taking this decision, with its members "publicly lecturing" the government."

Well, given the level of infections and the potential for vast numbers of deaths, perhaps it is as well that Boris is (for a change?) taking note of what the experts say!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I don't know what to feel about it all really. Yet again my work will change and no doubt there will be even more aggressive behaviour to contend with - presuming/assuming the rules go back to "only one person at a time at the hospital". 

I'm gutted for our village businesses though. We have two pubs closed already, with another having applied for planning to convert to flats. Hopefully one of the pubs currently closed will reopen after this current planned lockdown ends. There is seemingly no way out from it, well to me at least. I will break no rules as I couldn't stand to pass Covid to one of my patients - and my husband locks himself in, too, so he doesn't increase the risk to me. 

However I'm thankful that in this lockdown, folk who live alone can at least meet one person outdoors - that was the worst thing last time for people on their own, the inability to see people.


----------



## ForestWomble

I agree that this lockdown needs to happen, in fact I think its a bit late, should of been done sooner. 
I also agree that schools and unis should also close, I'm surprised they are not. 
On a selfish level I'm upset that I won't be able to see my parents again, but I'd rather that and we all stay safe and well. I'm also worried how I'm going to cope mentally as this time of year is hard for me anyway.


----------



## Dave S

I fully support this lockdown in the hope that it will not be necessary to either extend it or have another one in Spring. Hopefully by that time we may have a reliable vaccine to offer - first to front line workers of course.

Yes it will cause problems here at home, I look after my mother who is 91 and lives in a sheltered accomodation, my son and partner are having a baby in 2 weeks so they will need child care for the other 2 children so we are both being very careful what we do etc. Not a pleasant time but people before us went through worse in the 1940's.

What I find disappointing is Michael Gove yesterday saying that 4 weeks may not be long enough and it may be extended, at least he could have waited for a couple of weeks before trying to "up" himself and coming out with such statements. I feel personally that Gove has failed in all the positions he has had, he should be consigned to back benches and shut up.

As for Boris he is doing his bumbling best and I am pleased he is PM, not Corbyn but there are things that should have happened sooner and the track and trace system will be up and running just as the virus is under control, courtesy of Dido who has no experience of such things and also has a high failure rate.

I suspect that Boris will hand over the reigns next year and go back to earning the money he needs to, to support his many ex-wives, children etc but his legacy will always be how he got us through Covid even though our great - great grandchildren will still be paying for it.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lockdown is no problem for me, I havent been to a pub or any indoor space when you sit for a prolonged time without a mask. I dont enjoy shopping so thats not a problem either. When we go out its usually only for a walk anyway.

I do miss home though, I havent seen my family up north since Christmas, and I miss my mums dog! I get very irritated at the moment (because I am frustrated with my situation) when OH parents say they havent been able to see their daughter for a week or 2, but if I say I miss home they say "oh but its different for you you can't see them anyway because they are in tier 3 and the infections are high" I want to say to them it doesn't make it any easier! That I worry about my mum who is vulnerable because of her medication!


I wonder if it is doing more harm than good in the long run but hopefully if they keep important hospital appointments etc going - as long as it is safe - it won't be as bad as last time. I did see that if the peak has not reduced enough the lockdown may last longer.


----------



## tabelmabel

Is anyone else having 'covid dreams?' Last night i dreamt i was in a public loo but i had brought my own large bottle of green hand sanitiser and my own paper towel supply. And i was washing my hands for ages and ages. Other people were just quickly washing and leaving but not me.

Im sure on a deeper level im trying to wash my hands of something. Cant think what. But this is definitely covid themed. Weird!


----------



## Magyarmum

tabelmabel said:


> Is anyone else having 'covid dreams?' Last night i dreamt i was in a public loo but i had brought my own large bottle of green hand sanitiser and my own paper towel supply. And i was washing my hands for ages and ages. Other people were just quickly washing and leaving but not me.
> 
> Im sure on a deeper level im trying to wash my hands of something. Cant think what. But this is definitely covid themed. Weird!


I keep having dreams where I'm in a crowded place and no one apart from me is wearing a mask!

Or I've gone into a shop only to realise I've forgotten to put a mask on.!


----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> Is anyone else having 'covid dreams?' Last night i dreamt i was in a public loo but i had brought my own large bottle of green hand sanitiser and my own paper towel supply. And i was washing my hands for ages and ages. Other people were just quickly washing and leaving but not me.
> 
> Im sure on a deeper level im trying to wash my hands of something. Cant think what. But this is definitely covid themed. Weird!


Not exactly but I did dream last night that I was in a long queue of people trying to get money from a bank before it was devalued (I know that makes no sense) and Nicola Sturgeon was next to me. And the money was so for my wedding to an ex boyfriend that I really wasn't sure I wanted to marry at all.


----------



## Boxer123

I have similar dreams @Magyarmum . Or I dream I'm somewhere busy like a night club or shopping centre and there is no Covid then I wake up sad.


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> there is no Covid then I wake up sad


Slightly off topic (but hey ho, this is me rambling brain mabel)

I had a really, really vivid dream a couple of years ago. In real life i had slept in and the bright sun was shining through the curtains onto my face. And i dreamt i was at my edinburgh student flat (where my bed did face a window and the sun shone on me during the morning)

And my flatmates were there, we had had a party the night before and were all sitting in the kitchen chatting and laughing.

But then i remembered it was may and i had important exams, had done no prep.

I woke up, actually crying!! It took me a few moments to orientate myself. And when i realised it had been a dream i was relieved no exam but so, so sad that i was actually in my 50s and no longer 20!!!!

It was like first brief relief at no exam and then shock and sadness that this was not my edinburgh flat!


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Slightly off topic (but hey ho, this is me rambling brain mabel)
> 
> I had a really, really vivid dream a couple of years ago. In real life i had slept in and the bright sun was shining through the curtains onto my face. And i dreamt i was at my edinburgh student flat (where my bed did face a window and the sun shone on me during the morning)
> 
> And my flatmates were there, we had had a party the night before and were all sitting in the kitchen chatting and laughing.
> 
> But then i remembered it was may and i had important exams, had done no prep.
> 
> I woke up, actually crying!! It took me a few moments to orientate myself. And when i realised it had been a dream i was relieved no exam but so, so sad that i was actually in my 50s and no longer 20!!!!
> 
> It was like first brief relief at no exam and then shock and sadness that this was not my edinburgh flat!


That's what these dreams have been like I am with friends I haven't seen for years. I worked in a chippie for years in my early 20s I loved it there it was like a second home I often dream I'm there. I think it's because I am spending so much time alone.


----------



## rona

..............................


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> OH thought I was being petty sometimes, when moaning about what I have to deal with from my friend. He's now spent two days with us and thinks I'm being mentally abused.
> How do you give up on someone that may only have 8 weeks to live, in times like this? The Hospice was phoned 5 days ago and still haven't got back to him.


Gosh, it must be a really difficult situation. I take it at the moment your friend isn't anything like what he was when he was fit and healthy? And possibly taking it a bit out on you saying things he never would have?
Its tough, I wouldnt know what to do in this situation. It must be really difficult for your friend, knowing it is coming soon, and it does something to you. But you have to do what you think is best.

Have you tried phoning the hospice on his behalf and informed them about how things are now?


----------



## Mum2Heidi

It’s a very difficult situation Rona. Gra said some very cruel things sometimes. Out of frustration, side effects of medication, the cancer, who knows. When the Macmillan nurse stepped in and told him off it was a reality check.
I’m as soft as putty so he hardened me up a bit before he went and I know he didn’t mean any of it.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Mum2Heidi said:


> It's a very difficult situation Rona. Gra said some very cruel things sometimes. Out of frustration, side effects of medication, the cancer, who knows. When the Macmillan nurse stepped in and told him off it was a reality check.
> I'm as soft as putty so he hardened me up a bit before he went and I know he didn't mean any of it.


Sorry to hear that, its never nice but you know its not them speaking really

It was the same with my dad at the end saying something nasty to mum, it was the meds and the pain made him a lil loopy. We knew he'd never say or think that normally


----------



## Happy Paws2

Oh Rona I so sorry to hear about your friend.



rona said:


> OH thought I was being petty sometimes, when moaning about what I have to deal with from my friend. He's now spent two days with us and thinks I'm being mentally abused.
> How do you give up on someone that may only have 8 weeks to live, in times like this? *The Hospice was phoned 5 days ago and still haven't got back to him*.


Maybe another phone call is needed.


----------



## ForestWomble

Magyarmum said:


> I keep having dreams where I'm in a crowded place and no one apart from me is wearing a mask!
> 
> *Or I've gone into a shop only to realise I've forgotten to put a mask on.!*


The new dreaming you've forgotten to put your trousers on dream!


----------



## Magyarmum

New restrictions in Hungary from today ....


----------



## kimthecat

Some good news , my physical assessment is going ahead on Friday for my infusions for RA. NICE take 6 weeks to pass it and then I expect it will be a few weeks after that.


----------



## Calvine

Jaf said:


> I'm sure everyone is getting watched now.


Sorry, I think I quoted you in error in my earlier post - my apologies.
But yes, I do agree that we are being watched more than we know: here's an example. One day some weeks ago a friend of mine in the Canaries and I were exchanging WhatsApp messages. She mentioned (by his first name only since I knew his surname) that 'today was her ex-husband's funeral'. She then mentioned his daughter by her first name only - I never met his daughter from a previous marriage, have no means of contacting her and did not know her surname. I have a FB account which I hardly ever use - but the next day I got a ''friend suggestion'' from FB which, believe it or not, was the name of the daughter which my friend had mentioned on her WhatsApp message. I messaged my friend and sent her a screenshot of the FB ''friend suggestion'' and asked if this was the daughter as I was not sure what her surname was, and sure enough it was her. I found that quite spooky actually. She said something similar had happened to her too.


----------



## JoanneF

Calvine said:


> Sorry, I think I quoted you in error in my earlier post - my apologies.
> But yes, I do agree that we are being watched more than we know: here's an example. One day some weeks ago a friend of mine in the Canaries and I were exchanging WhatsApp messages. She mentioned (by his first name only since I knew his surname) that 'today was her ex-husband's funeral'. She then mentioned his daughter by her first name only - I never met his daughter from a previous marriage, have no means of contacting her and did not know her surname. I have a FB account which I hardly ever use - but the next day I got a ''friend suggestion'' from FB which, believe it or not, was the name of the daughter which my friend had mentioned on her WhatsApp message. I messaged my friend and sent her a screenshot of the FB ''friend suggestion'' and asked if this was the daughter as I was not sure what her surname was, and sure enough it was her. I found that quite spooky actually. She said something similar had happened to her too.


I've missed the back story to this so apologies if this has been said. But I think so too.

You know how, when you google something like lawn mowers, you get loads of pop up ads for them on other websites?

I can't remember what it was specifically but Mr F and i were chatting about something - just in conversation - and we started getting adverts.

Alexa is listening ...


----------



## Cully

I'm very careful who I give my phone number too but had to provide it the other day. The next day I started getting related spam texts.


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> I'm very careful who I give my phone number too but had to provide it the other day. The next day I started getting related spam texts.


I never give my mobile number, I give my home number. Just say I don't have a mobile


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> I never give my mobile number, I give my home number. Just say I don't have a mobile


I used to get spam/scam calls on my landline too, until I started using a call filter. No problems now.


----------



## JoanneF

I've had to block quite a few numbers over the last few weeks because I allegedly have not been paying my internet provider (I have).


----------



## Calvine

JoanneF said:


> I've missed the back story to this so apologies if this has been said. But I think so too.
> 
> You know how, when you google something like lawn mowers, you get loads of pop up ads for them on other websites?
> 
> I can't remember what it was specifically but Mr F and i were chatting about something - just in conversation - and we started getting adverts.
> 
> Alexa is listening ...


 That's what happened to my friend: she was in the kitchen talking to her son and she had her phone with her. Apparently the ads came pretty much straight away while they were still talking. Yet many people dislike the thought of carrying an ID card.


----------



## Jesthar

JoanneF said:


> You know how, when you google something like lawn mowers, you get loads of pop up ads for them on other websites?
> 
> I can't remember what it was specifically but Mr F and i were chatting about something - just in conversation - and we started getting adverts.
> 
> Alexa is listening ...


People often wonder why, as a computer geek, I don't have Alexa or Google voice control stuff set up, nor any smart appliances etc. in my home.

This is why. And it's only the tip of that particular iceberg...


----------



## Cully

JoanneF said:


> I've had to block quite a few numbers over the last few weeks because I allegedly have not been paying my internet provider (I have).


Yes, apparently I need to bring my o.2 payments up to date by clicking on a provided link or risk disconnection. Don't use them. Never have.


----------



## StormyThai

Jesthar said:


> People often wonder why, as a computer geek, I don't have Alexa or Google voice control stuff set up, nor any smart appliances etc. in my home.
> 
> This is why. And it's only the tip of that particular iceberg...


Ditto: I will never trust these Alexa or google voice stuff things.
I won't even have it set up on my phone...interestingly I don't get a huge amount of spam (no spam calls at all) but my partner (who has all the funky gadgets set up on his phone because look "OK Google blah....blah...blah") gets several spam calls to the point that he needs true caller on his phone.

He keeps trying to convince me to set it up as well


----------



## ForestWomble

JoanneF said:


> I've missed the back story to this so apologies if this has been said. But I think so too.
> 
> You know how, when you google something like lawn mowers, you get loads of pop up ads for them on other websites?
> 
> I can't remember what it was specifically but Mr F and i were chatting about something - just in conversation - and we started getting adverts.
> 
> Alexa is listening ...





Jesthar said:


> People often wonder why, as a computer geek, I don't have Alexa or Google voice control stuff set up, nor any smart appliances etc. in my home.
> 
> This is why. And it's only the tip of that particular iceberg...





StormyThai said:


> Ditto: I will never trust these Alexa or google voice stuff things.
> I won't even have it set up on my phone...interestingly I don't get a huge amount of spam (no spam calls at all) but my partner (who has all the funky gadgets set up on his phone because look "OK Google blah....blah...blah") gets several spam calls to the point that he needs true caller on his phone.
> 
> He keeps trying to convince me to set it up as well


I'm glad I don't have any of these voice active thingymabobs either, or any smart devices for that matter, think I will continue as I am for as long as I can.


----------



## O2.0

You don't need Alexa or google voice. If you have a smart phone, it's listening to you - did nobody watch The Social Dilemma on Netflix?  

Even when those devices are off, think about it, even when I turn my phone off, and then turn it back on, any calls I missed or texts come through when I turn it back on, it's still getting signals even when off.


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> Even when those devices are off, think about it, even when I turn my phone off, and then turn it back on, any calls I missed or texts come through when I turn it back on, it's still getting signals even when off.


That happens with 'dumb' phones too - the information is held by the network servers and forwarded when contact is renewed.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> That happens with 'dumb' phones too - the information is held by the network servers and forwarded when contact is renewed.


That's not how they explained it on The Social Dilemma! You mean they were wrong?!


----------



## rona

rona said:


> One of my OH's bosses had got it. A couple
> 
> By pure fluke and luck, OH hasn't had contact for two weeks.
> 
> They are really quite worried, they are both of a dangerous age and the man has underlying issues


Lucky people had very mild symptoms, just a little cough and exhaustion. Just about to get their second test to ascertain that they are clear.
Fingers crossed they don't get long covid


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> That's not how they explained it on The Social Dilemma! You mean they were wrong?!


Used to work for a network infrastructure company.  Haven't watched the film. You only mentioned calls and texts, though, and the way they are handled is universal - has to be, as it has to work for even 'dumb' phones.


----------



## Arny

I wonder if this will have a knock on effect on vaccines that are being tested on ferrets.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eu...we9pA9zJuHvGeI3dnCGVbORe3XayQgVM0PB2iB-3bNdco


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Sorry, I think I quoted you in error in my earlier post - my apologies.
> But yes, I do agree that we are being watched more than we know: here's an example. One day some weeks ago a friend of mine in the Canaries and I were exchanging WhatsApp messages. She mentioned (by his first name only since I knew his surname) that 'today was her ex-husband's funeral'. She then mentioned his daughter by her first name only - I never met his daughter from a previous marriage, have no means of contacting her and did not know her surname. I have a FB account which I hardly ever use - but the next day I got a ''friend suggestion'' from FB which, believe it or not, was the name of the daughter which my friend had mentioned on her WhatsApp message. I messaged my friend and sent her a screenshot of the FB ''friend suggestion'' and asked if this was the daughter as I was not sure what her surname was, and sure enough it was her. I found that quite spooky actually. She said something similar had happened to her too.


Considering that what's app is owned by Facebook it's not really that spooky.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Considering that what's app is owned by Facebook it's not really that spooky.


 Apart from the fact that no surnames were mentioned, and the person with whom I was exchanging messages has a different surname from her late ex-husband.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Apart from the fact that no surnames were mentioned, and the person with whom I was exchanging messages has a different surname from her late ex-husband.


But I assume they are connected on Facebook?


----------



## kimthecat

I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks


 I was the same the first time I took my cat to the vet during lockdown . . .she and I could not hear each other. So the next time I went, post dental procedure, after the poor little soul had had a bad reaction to Metacam, I wrote everything down, day by day. Sometimes you just cannot make out anything they are saying. Hope you are feeling better now. XX


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


A good OH is a blessing indeed

hope all goes well and your pain retreats very soon


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


That's good that you qualify, but sorry you are feeling so bad.

My step mother came round the other week, she's the one who has sarcoidosis of the brain stem and RA as a lovely side addition, she has now had a knee replacement and I thought it would improve things, but she is still in as much difficulty. She's found it difficult as she had to stop treatments to get the operation done so the RA attacked with a vengeance.

I hope you feel better soon x


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


Must be such a relief for you know. I'm really pleased for you.


----------



## kimthecat

Thank you all for your good wishes.  @MilleD I feel for your mother in law , I hope they can restart 
the RA treatment soon.


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


Sounds dreadful for you but glad you qualify. Hope you can start ASAP and see some benefits rapidly.


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> I had my physical assessment for Truxima for RA today. OH came with me. luckily as I couldn't understand a word they were saying with the masks and everything. It seems I have enough points to qualify .Phew ! It was very rushed and I forgot to ask about increasing my Steroids as it will be at least a couple of months , though I can email the consultant . Its getting so painful that its making me cry. I'm lucky having my OH , he does so much for me .


I'm glad you have the points to qualify, hope you don't have to wait too long.


----------



## kimthecat

Kept in disgusting conditions, Denmark not a civilised country. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54818615

*Denmark will cull all its mink - as many as 17 million - after a mutated form of coronavirus that can spread to humans was found on mink farms.*

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the mutated virus posed a "risk to the effectiveness" of a future Covid-19 vaccine.

Denmark is the world's biggest producer of mink fur and its main export markets are China and Hong Kong.

The culling began late last month, after many mink cases were detected.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the mutated virus posed a "risk to the effectiveness" of a future Covid-19 vaccine.


Just to reiterate, particularly as many of the vaccines are being tested on ferrets..


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know it's sounds awful but the poor creatures are better of been culled than living in those terrible conditions just waiting to be killed.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Kept in disgusting conditions, Denmark not a civilised country.


Not surprising from a country where bestiality and animal brothels were legal until 2015. Chimpanzees with make-up dressed in alluring outfits . . .


----------



## Siskin

There’s a lot of mink farms around europe, Spain had a big culling program in their minx farms apparently


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> There's a lot of mink farms around europe, Spain had a big culling program in their minx farms apparently


Spain has bullfighting and a poor animal rights/welfare record, so I don't expect much from them. But I'd somehow expected better of Denmark.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> Spain has bullfighting and a poor animal rights/welfare record, so I don't expect much from them. But I'd somehow expected better of Denmark.


Me too, I didn't know they had minx farms either. I wonder how many other countries farm minx for silly rich people.
I was very happy that the U.K. stopped farming minx although I'm angry that the animal rights lot saw fit to release farmed minx into the countryside. Minx have decimated many species of British wildlife particularly water voles


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Spain has bullfighting and a poor animal rights/welfare record, so I don't expect much from them. But I'd somehow expected better of Denmark.


Hmm, they own the Faroe islands which have the annual whale massacre so I'm not entirely surprised.

Warning - graphic content https://travel.earth/whale-slaughter-tradition-denmark/


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Me too, I didn't know they had minx farms either. I wonder how many other countries farm minx for silly rich people.
> I was very happy that the U.K. stopped farming minx although I'm angry that the animal rights lot saw fit to release farmed minx into the countryside. Minx have decimated many species of British wildlife particularly water voles


One of my favourite books as a child was about a mink. It's a shame they are so devastating where they are not indiginous.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Break-Freedom-Story-Puffin-Books/dp/0140304959


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> Me too, I didn't know they had minx farms either. I wonder how many other countries farm minx for silly rich people.
> I was very happy that the U.K. stopped farming minx although I'm angry that the animal rights lot saw fit to release farmed minx into the countryside. Minx have decimated many species of British wildlife particularly water voles


 God knows; living short wretched lives in a space about the size of a sheet of A4 paper - the same with silver foxes in ?Russia. Apparently you can go and pick the foxes you want killed for your coat, so that's rather lovely. Apparently there are thousands of fur farms in the EU. Tho' I guess battery hens have a wretched life too. It's awful to think that there are worse things than death for these creatures.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> mm, they own the Faroe islands


 I'm sure you are right, tho' your geography is obviously better than mine.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> God knows; living short wretched lives in a space about the size of a sheet of A4 paper - the same with silver foxes in ?Russia. Apparently you can go and pick the foxes you want killed for your coat, so that's rather lovely. Apparently there are thousands of fur farms in the EU. Tho' I guess battery hens have a wretched life too. It's awful to think that there are worse things than death for these creatures.


5

Well maybe we deserve Covid 19 as a punishment for the way we treat animals.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> 5
> 
> Well maybe we deserve Covid 19 as a punishment for the way we treat animals.


 It is maybe Mother Nature's revenge, no wonder either.


----------



## Siskin

Well if covid gets rid of all minx farms then it will have been a benefit


----------



## Cully

My friend who's a farmer's wife and likes all animals isn't so keen on minx. She lost more of her lovely chickens to them than foxes ever killed.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> My friend who's a farmer's wife and likes all animals isn't so keen on minx. She lost more of her lovely chickens to them than foxes ever killed.


 I remember some animal lib/rights members breaking in to mink farms and releasing them and it was said at the time it was eventually going to have an adverse effect on wildlife, which apparently it has.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain the Andalucia region has just announced that all non-essential businesses must close daily at 6pm. 
Since we still have siesta 2 - 5pm I expect most businesses won’t bother opening for the evening.
Curfew is now 10pm till 7am.

I haven’t been out in the evening since March but it’s still oddly scary.


----------



## ForestWomble

Calvine said:


> I remember some animal lib/rights members breaking in to mink farms and releasing them and it was said at the time it was eventually going to have an adverse effect on wildlife, which apparently it has.


I researched the effects of animal rights groups breaking into Mink farms in Wiltshire and the terrible effect it had on both the mink and the fauna and flora of The New Forest, those 'animal rights' people did way more harm than good.


----------



## Siskin

ForestWomble said:


> I researched the effects of animal rights groups breaking into Mink farms in Wiltshire and the terrible effect it had on both the mink and the fauna and flora of The New Forest, those 'animal rights' people did way more harm than good.


It still makes me very angry as mink continue to have a detrimental effect. Many wildlife areas do try to trap mink and humanely dispose of them as they cause so much havoc to the wildlife especially water voles, but they will also take young water birds and can easily take whole broods. Whenever there is something said about mink on tv wildlife programs they talk about escaped mink and barely mention if at all that hundreds were deliberately set free by activists who seem to have no idea of the damage they have caused doing this. Haven't noticed them apologising anywhere in these days of apologising for everything.

Sorry for the rant, it's a particularly bugbear of mine


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> It still makes me very angry as mink continue to have a detrimental effect. Many wildlife areas do try to trap mink and humanely dispose of them as they cause so much havoc to the wildlife especially water voles, but they will also take young water birds and can easily take whole broods. Whenever there is something said about mink on tv wildlife programs they talk about escaped mink and barely mention if at all that hundreds were deliberately set free by activists who seem to have no idea of the damage they have caused doing this. Haven't noticed them apologising anywhere in these days of apologising for everything.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, it's a particularly bugbear of mine


No worries, rant away, I was angry myself when doing the research. 
Mink farms are horrible and I understand wanting to 'save' the mink, but what these animal rights people did was far worse than just culling, because a lot of the mink died as they didn't know how to look after themselves, so they starved or got killed by other means, but those that survived as you've said already, caused so much havoc to so many native animals and even plants. 
The idea of culling innocent animals makes me feel sick, but rather that than releasing them and the above happening.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> I remember some animal lib/rights members breaking in to mink farms and releasing them and it was said at the time it was eventually going to have an adverse effect on wildlife, which apparently it has.


As far as I am aware that is a common misconception & numbers were already established in the UK wildlife populations despite ill thought out releases by AR activists

https://www.gwct.org.uk/wildlife/re...zEx3NGJmdWmzlW8yroZthLQbjyqxHBI2yqRI9WrFJ5_8M


----------



## Faoladh

Cully said:


> My friend who's a farmer's wife and likes all animals isn't so keen on minx. She lost more of her lovely chickens to them than foxes ever killed.


As someone who worked on farms on and off for 16 years all animal accommodation should be properly secured. It's not the minks' fault.



Siskin said:


> It still makes me very angry as mink continue to have a detrimental effect. Many wildlife areas do try to trap mink and humanely dispose of them as they cause so much havoc to the wildlife especially water voles, but they will also take young water birds and can easily take whole broods. Whenever there is something said about mink on tv wildlife programs they talk about escaped mink and barely mention if at all that hundreds were deliberately set free by activists who seem to have no idea of the damage they have caused doing this. Haven't noticed them apologising anywhere in these days of apologising for everything.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, it's a particularly bugbear of mine


It's a shame everybody suffers from the human meddling from start to finish, really. In an ideal world I'd like to argue there is a place for mink in the ecosystem if they don't push out native mustelidae as well as so aggressively overkill voles, waterfowl etc- their artificially inflated populations without adequate control measures are a recipe for disaster, however. Maybe we need to reintroduce our old apex predators.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Had to go out today I had my two monthly prescription arrive last week gave them a quick check and somehow didn't notice one of my tables is missing. So instead of trying to phone the Doctors (which is a waste of time as you can't get though) I decided to go down and explain I have some tablets missing, so after having to wait in the car park for 15 minutes I finally managed to get it sorted out and they'll be at Sainsbury's on Wednesday so after trip out:Banghead


----------



## Magyarmum

It's just been announced that from tomorrow Hungary will impose a curfew from 8 pm to 5 am,

The following measure will be in place for 30 days

a curfew will be in place between 8 p.m. and 5 a.m. Only those going to or from work, or other special circumstances, will be permitted in public areas
Universities and high schools will move to digital education, and dormitories will be closed. Preschools, day care, kindergartens, and classes for students 14 years of age and younger will remain open
Businesses will be closed after 7 p.m., and restaurants will be limited to home delivery
A general ban on events will go into effect, and family gatherings will be limited to ten people
Sporting events will be played to empty stands
Hotels may only accept guests traveling on business, but not tourists
Healthcare workers, teachers, and caretakers at preschools and kindergartens will receive a coronavirus test on a weekly basis
Weddings may only occur without a reception, and a maximum of 50 people may attend funerals


----------



## Jaf

Andalucia, Spain. New measures take affect tonight so today the supermarkets have been sold out of everything. Won’t be allowed out of Municipalities from tonight. The problem is that everyone has to use their town’s shops but some town/ villages are tiny and very expensive or don’t have much.

Last time it all settled down quickly so hopefully the same will happen now.


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> Andalucia, Spain. New measures take affect tonight so today the supermarkets have been sold out of everything. Won't be allowed out of Municipalities from tonight. The problem is that everyone has to use their town's shops but some town/ villages are tiny and very expensive or don't have much.
> 
> Last time it all settled down quickly so hopefully the same will happen now.


I hope it settles down soon for you too. There's plenty in the shops here but people just go crazy buying everything they can and stripping shelves. I mean who needs so many toilet rolls?
I'm expecting a delivery on Wednesday and a bit concerned in case they haven't got everything I've ordered.


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> I hope it settles down soon for you too. There's plenty in the shops here but people just go crazy buying everything they can and stripping shelves. I mean who needs so many toilet rolls?
> I'm expecting a delivery on Wednesday and a bit concerned in case they haven't got everything I've ordered.


I really don't understand it. I mean we know from experience that after a week or 2 the shops are fully stocked, so why the panic buying? I was planning on shopping today but have left it till Wednesday to avoid the scrum, I have to go then or I'll run out of cat food! I can eat out of the freezer for a month but the cats can't/ won't eat food from the village shop!

I hope you get everything you ordered.


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> I really don't understand it. I mean we know from experience that after a week or 2 the shops are fully stocked, so why the panic buying? I was planning on shopping today but have left it till Wednesday to avoid the scrum, I have to go then or I'll run out of cat food! I can eat out of the freezer for a month but the cats can't/ won't eat food from the village shop!
> 
> I hope you get everything you ordered.


At the moment I'm worried I won't get *anything* I ordered. Something's gone wrong as I haven't had the usual confirmation email. I'll chase it up later. Fingers crossed.


----------



## StormyThai

They have put up buying restrictions for certain products in Aldi again


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> I hope it settles down soon for you too. There's plenty in the shops here but people just go crazy buying everything they can and stripping shelves. I mean who needs so many toilet rolls?
> I*'m expecting a delivery on Wednesday and a bit concerned in case they haven't got everything I've ordered*.


I get mine tomorrow as well, fingers crossed.


----------



## HarlequinCat

They've blocked off a whole floor at tesco. Quite annoying. My OH has been trying to get boxers, ordered some online, they were out of stock, went to go pick some up from tesco quick while we did week shop but it was blocked off . Hes been losing weight so everything is too lose on him. He was going to pick up a pair of jeans too.

Though they are happily stocking Christmas gifts and decorations downstairs. Plenty of people jamming up and crowding those Isles!


----------



## Faoladh

Happy Paws2 said:


> Had to go out today I had my two monthly prescription arrive last week gave them a quick check and somehow didn't notice one of my tables is missing. So instead of trying to phone the Doctors (which is a waste of time as you can't get though) I decided to go down and explain I have some tablets missing, so after having to wait in the car park for 15 minutes I finally managed to get it sorted out and they'll be at Sainsbury's on Wednesday so after trip out:Banghead


Annoying when that happens. It took me 6 weeks and 8 trips to different pharmacies just to collect one month's prescription once, there were so many issues with supply, and one I got someone's heart medication by accidetnt;I hope the intended recipient managed because it couldn't be returned until the next day.


----------



## Faoladh

Cully said:


> At the moment I'm worried I won't get *anything* I ordered. Something's gone wrong as I haven't had the usual confirmation email. I'll chase it up later. Fingers crossed.


Oh dear.. Is your
shop showing in the orders section of your account?


----------



## Cully

Faoladh said:


> Oh dear.. Is your
> shop showing in the orders section of your account?


All sorted now, thanks.


----------



## catz4m8z

Cully said:


> I'm expecting a delivery on Wednesday and a bit concerned in case they haven't got everything I've ordered.


Im less worried....seems like nobody is ever panicked enough to buy the vegan stuff!! LOL


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> Im less worried....seems like nobody is ever panicked enough to buy the vegan stuff!! LOL


Dunno, I couldn't get any Oomph. Or is that just veggie? Low on Moroccan couscous too.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> Im less worried....seems like nobody is ever panicked enough to buy the vegan stuff!! LOL


Back in March and April when panic buying was raging fresh fruit and veg was flying off the shelves, as soon as it was restocked it was snatched up. Apparently plant based milk was hard to find too as people where buying it due to its long shelve life. I still haven`t been in the shops since middle of March, my Husband said on Friday when he did our shop, that most things were ok but very low on the veg. Hopefully that was just due to the time of year and maybe the time and day rather than from the effects of panic buying - fingers crossed anyway!


----------



## ForestWomble

3dogs2cats said:


> Back in March and April when panic buying was raging fresh fruit and veg was flying off the shelves, as soon as it was restocked it was snatched up. Apparently plant based milk was hard to find too as people where buying it due to its long shelve life. I still haven`t been in the shops since middle of March, my Husband said on Friday when he did our shop, that most things were ok but very low on the veg. Hopefully that was just due to the time of year and maybe the time and day rather than from the effects of panic buying - fingers crossed anyway!


A family member told me the other day that whole shelves were bare when she went in her nearest supermarket, no bread, butter, not much in the way of fruit or veg, hardly any rice, couldn't get any paracetamol and there were a few other things too.


----------



## Siskin

We are buying most of our fruit and veg from the man at the little market in a nearby village. He’s says he will be still coming over the lockdown and if we want we can have deliveries. As it’s all outside and we mask up and pay by card I don’t feel the need to have deliveries with him and will still go. It’s not busy there and it’s a nice outing, keep meeting people from our village there.


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> Im less worried....seems like nobody is ever panicked enough to buy the vegan stuff!! LOL


Well, Asda oat milk is often out of stock 

I now keep my larder well stocked with it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, Asda oat milk is often out of stock
> 
> I now keep my larder well stocked with it.


Have you thought of buying the oat milk powder instead? As I can't get to Penney Market to buy my usual make I keep a stock of the powder instead.

https://northernpantry.co.uk/products/oat-milk-powder?variant=31821578207301


----------



## Lurcherlad

Good idea


----------



## Magyarmum

It was announced last night that mask wearing is now mandatory in all public areas.in Hungary. A move I totally agree with.

*Wearing a mask is also mandatory in public areas!November 10, 2020 - Tuesday 20:1*

*This was announced by Viktor Orbán on Tuesday night.*

We have to persevere until the vaccine against the coronavirus arrives, said Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in an interview with the current M1 channel on Tuesday. The prime minister stressed the vaccine is in foreseeable proximity and only this can help in the solution. He explained that at the end of December, in January, all vaccines will certainly come from the EU, and perhaps from elsewhere.

He calculates, "Viktor Orbán continued," that this will be enough to vaccinate doctors, nurses, hospital workers, those working to maintain public order, and perhaps even the most troubled patients. He added that he is also trying to "keep the vaccine options in China, Russia and Israel" on the table.

Mass delivery from Europe is not expected before April, but the vaccine could come in bulk from elsewhere and in the meantime come in smaller quantities from Europe, the prime minister said. There will be a partial relief in late December, around January, and a release in April - summed up. "In the end, we will be over and we will win," he said.

The Prime Minister announced a mandatory use of masks in public areas from midnight.

At *10:10* pm, *koronavirus.gov.hu* wrote: the rules introduced so far in connection with mask wearing and distance *keeping* are still valid, with the fact that mask wearing is mandatory in some public areas of settlements with more than 10,000 inhabitants. It is the mayor's responsibility to designate the areas. It is still not mandatory to wear a mask during sports activities or in parks or green areas.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Faoladh said:


> Annoying when that happens. It took me 6 weeks and 8 trips to different pharmacies just to collect one month's prescription once, there were so many issues with supply, and one I got someone's heart medication by accidetnt;I hope the intended recipient managed because it couldn't be returned until the next day.


I've been lucky the Pharmacy has just phoned and they have my tablets there waiting for me to pick up.


----------



## Guest

My GP surgery isn't allowing anyone to make new appointments as from today, normally you can get an appointment very easily. I am wondering if they are getting ready to administer the vaccine when it becomes available, as it did say GP's will be administering it on the news and GP services maybe affected (There is two GP surgeries in my area and the practice I am at is the smaller one of the two and the friendliest)?


----------



## LinznMilly

Sounds like someone downstairs/somewhere in my block is having a party. They're making so much noise it's like background noise to the TV.


----------



## Magyarmum

How Hungarian scientists have contributed to the development of the Covid-19 vaccine

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10...leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

*The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race
*
https://de.reuters.com/article/us-h...-village-firm-takes-global-role-idUSKBN27V0AT
*
In COVID-19 vaccine race, Hungarian village firm takes global role








*


----------



## Magyarmum

Just been announced that Moderna's vaccine is 94.5% effective.

At long last things are slowly beginning to look up!


----------



## rona

I see they are fiddling the figures again. My area now has 10 less cases than it did yesterday,and another local area has twenty less


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> I see they are fiddling the figures again. My area now has 10 less cases than it did yesterday,and another local area has twenty less


Or they could just be cross checking and correcting data. Not all updates are malicious.


----------



## ForestWomble

Been keeping an eye on my area and the numbers are still going up, as much as I don't want a lockdown winter, or Christmas for that matter, I don't see how it won't be at this rate


----------



## rona

Jesthar said:


> Or they could just be cross checking and correcting data. Not all updates are malicious.


They've updated 3 times as far as I'm aware and every time the figures go down


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> They've updated 3 times as far as I'm aware and every time the figures go down


Which could be because they err on the side of caution and assume Covid at first where things are uncertain, then adjust as test results etc. come back. I'm sure people would be just as unhappy if they assumed it wasn't Covid and had to revise the past numbers UP instead


----------



## HarlequinCat

I noticed that, our area BCP bournemouth Christchurch and Poole have been getting just under 200 cases a day but yesterday it rocketed up to 400 .


----------



## catz4m8z

HarlequinCat said:


> I noticed that, our area BCP bournemouth Christchurch and Poole have been getting just under 200 cases a day but yesterday it rocketed up to 400 .


That could of just been catch up from the weekend, you do sometimes find that monday figures are much higher due to information not being updated over the weekend.
I know we were all expecting the second wave but its still depressing. Feels like we are back to square one in some ways...only difference I can see is that there are less acutely unwell people this time round. Downside being that there are more asymptomatic people wandering about infecting people without a clue.


----------



## HarlequinCat

catz4m8z said:


> That could of just been catch up from the weekend, you do sometimes find that monday figures are much higher due to information not being updated over the weekend.
> I know we were all expecting the second wave but its still depressing. Feels like we are back to square one in some ways...only difference I can see is that there are less acutely unwell people this time round. Downside being that there are more asymptomatic people wandering about infecting people without a clue.


Nope never usually that high on a Monday, it does usually stick to the 200s roughly. Its apparently something to do with how they are recording addresses differently, by taking the address at the point of taking the test rather than just finding it on their nhs record? I dont know how that makes a difference! But it seems it did, making numbers either artificially high or low.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I have the rage. 

Public sector pay freeze (I am NHS so we are already frozen thanks to the rubbish "deal" that was agreed for us)...how quickly they forget about standing in the street and clapping for "us". I heard people today moaning that, "They should be lucky they have a job". Errm, last I looked there are PLENTY of public sector jobs that need filling, that if you want to do, you can retrain if needed. I've been working myself to exhaustion whilst some folk had a lovely Summer of furlough on 80% pay. I don't for one minute mean I don't feel empathy for those people who have lost their jobs - of course I do - but please PLEASE don't tell me that those of us that do these jobs should be further penalised. A friend who owns a business had an employee refuse to come back to work when the last lockdown allowed them to go back to work, as it was "more convenient for childcare to be on furlough". I'm sure it was but I just had no words for that attitude. 

I saw research published today that 70% of midwives have experienced abuse during the pandemic. In my department it's 100% of us - security having to be called, being sworn at and called names. To be called an effing c word because you can't go into a scan with your wife is really not acceptable. We aren't worth a pay rise though...

URGH!


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I have the rage.
> 
> Public sector pay freeze (I am NHS so we are already frozen thanks to the rubbish "deal" that was agreed for us)...how quickly they forget about standing in the street and clapping for "us". I heard people today moaning that, "They should be lucky they have a job". Errm, last I looked there are PLENTY of public sector jobs that need filling, that if you want to do, you can retrain if needed. I've been working myself to exhaustion whilst some folk had a lovely Summer of furlough on 80% pay. I don't for one minute mean I don't feel empathy for those people who have lost their jobs - of course I do - but please PLEASE don't tell me that those of us that do these jobs should be further penalised. A friend who owns a business had an employee refuse to come back to work when the last lockdown allowed them to go back to work, as it was "more convenient for childcare to be on furlough". I'm sure it was but I just had no words for that attitude.
> 
> I saw research published today that 70% of midwives have experienced abuse during the pandemic. In my department it's 100% of us - security having to be called, being sworn at and called names. To be called an effing c word because you can't go into a scan with your wife is really not acceptable. We aren't worth a pay rise though...
> 
> URGH!


No wonder you're in a rage, it's madness not to reward medical staff with a simple pay rise especially now the car park g is no longer free once again.
As to these stupid people wanting to be with their wives at a scan, well lucky them to be able to see a picture of the scan afterwards, more then my husband ever got to see. When I was pregnant with my first scans were quite a new thing and ultra sound machines few and far between. I only ever had one scan, husbands not allowed to come in and no pictures possible either. No scans permitted during during my second pregnancy as the first had been straightforward, therefore it was assumed the second would be to. As it happens it wasn't. What is the matter with people these days, apart from the sheer sense of continual entitlement they appear to have no self control either


----------



## Lurcherlad

There is another reason for wanting a partner with you during a scan .... pregnancies don’t always go to plan ime.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Absolutely @Lurcherlad - but sadly when Trust guidance is that women needed to attend alone (though that has changed now for two of the scans, thankfully - the dating scan being the first scan someone was allowed in for, as it's the scan most likely to have a sad outcome) and we are having to follow that guidance, it's not our fault nor our decision and we don't deserve to be sworn at and called names because of it.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> Absolutely @Lurcherlad - but sadly when Trust guidance is that women needed to attend alone (though that has changed now for two of the scans, thankfully) and we are having to follow that guidance, it's not our fault nor our decision and we don't deserve to be sworn at and called names because of it.


No, I wasn't really commenting because of the current situation, rather just making the point that it can be a time when one hears the worst news, not just looking at images of a healthy baby.

Absolutely, nobody deserves to be abused and the rules are there to protect everyone.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Totally - and thank goodness we have some provision for someone to be with our women now.


----------



## Bisbow

Do other people think as I do that relaxing the restrictions for 5 days is a foolish idea

Would you rather spend Christmas with your loved ones and then attend their funeral in January or spend Christmas alone and have a nice summer and late celebrations with them after we have all had the vaccine ?

I know what one I will choose


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> Do other people think as I do that relaxing the restrictions for 5 days is a foolish idea
> 
> Would you rather spend Christmas with your loved ones and then attend their funeral in January or spend Christmas alone and have a nice summer and late celebrations with them after we have all had the vaccine ?
> 
> I know what one I will choose


The latter without even a thought. We are on our own this Christmas, my choice. I prefer to stay safe then risk it. Summers a far nicer time to meet up instead of the gloom of winter. It's not the end of the world to give Christmas a miss this year, but it could be for some


----------



## HarlequinCat

Bisbow said:


> Do other people think as I do that relaxing the restrictions for 5 days is a foolish idea
> 
> Would you rather spend Christmas with your loved ones and then attend their funeral in January or spend Christmas alone and have a nice summer and late celebrations with them after we have all had the vaccine ?
> 
> I know what one I will choose


I think a lot of people are getting fed up of the restrictions, that they would have broken the rules anyway. It is stupid, how can they say that four households can form a bubble one day then the next its not allowed. Its sending out mixed signals, and there will probably be another lockdown in the new year because of it.

And as you say, the vaccine is coming soon anyway, better to wait a few months!


----------



## ForestWomble

Bisbow said:


> Do other people think as I do that relaxing the restrictions for 5 days is a foolish idea
> 
> Would you rather spend Christmas with your loved ones and then attend their funeral in January or spend Christmas alone and have a nice summer and late celebrations with them after we have all had the vaccine ?
> 
> I know what one I will choose


The second option, don't even have to think about it.

I had already said to my parents that I'd rather we get through this alive and healthy, than risk any of us catching covid and potentially the worst happening. I want to celebrate the end of the pandemic together, not having to say the final goodbye.

I fear that saying we can mix for those 5 days are going to cause far greater misery for a lot of people, than just postponing Christmas.


----------



## Boxer123

I think they are saying it because they know people will do what they want anyway. I’m in a bit of a quandary about Christmas normally i would go to my mums for dinner then come home because of boxers but she will have a houseful with my sister and her children. I don’t actually mind a quiet one. I’m hoping my other sister from up north can visit so we can spend it together.


----------



## Arny

It doesn't really bother me either way as we'd always planned to be at home this year because of the new(ish) dog and if people wanted to come to visit they could.

If it helps people's mental health though, and so reduces the extra deaths in the long run, I'm all for it.
If they believe people would break the rules if we were in lockdown over Christmas then putting a clear plan (will the rules be clear ) in place so that people can have that company is no bad thing.


----------



## Cleo38

Bisbow said:


> Do other people think as I do that relaxing the restrictions for 5 days is a foolish idea
> 
> Would you rather spend Christmas with your loved ones and then attend their funeral in January or spend Christmas alone and have a nice summer and late celebrations with them after we have all had the vaccine ?
> 
> I know what one I will choose


But it's not that simple ... for some people it will be their last Christmas, for others (such as myself) it will be the first one without a loved family member & therefore very difficult.

Personally I think people should make their own choices based on what is best for them & their families ... I know I will.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cleo38 said:


> But it's not that simple ... for some people it will be their last Christmas, for others (such as myself) it will be the first one without a loved family member & therefore very difficult.
> 
> Personally I think people should make their own choices based on what is best for them & their families ... I know I will.


It could end up being the last Christmas for more people mixing in a pandemic though then there would of been. Why risk even more grief?

I haven't seen my Gran for a year, we honestly didn't think she'd still be alive for this Christmas, but amazingly she is, we suspect that this will be her last Christmas, but we don't want to increase those odds that it will be by potentially infecting her, and she doesn't want to risk making any of us sick, so as hard as it is we are keeping apart. 
I'm not saying you are wrong, we have to decide whats best for our individual families, and of course I'm not speaking for Bisbow or anyone else who is keeping away from family this year, but I'll admit I find it hard to understand why some people seem happy to take the risk.


----------



## Cleo38

ForestWomble said:


> It could end up being the last Christmas for more people mixing in a pandemic though then there would of been. Why risk even more grief?
> 
> I haven't seen my Gran for a year, we honestly didn't think she'd still be alive for this Christmas, but amazingly she is, we suspect that this will be her last Christmas, but we don't want to increase those odds that it will be by potentially infecting her, and she doesn't want to risk making any of us sick, so as hard as it is we are keeping apart.
> I'm not saying you are wrong, we have to decide whats best for our individual families, and of course I'm not speaking for Bisbow or anyone else who is keeping away from family this year, but I'll admit I find it hard to understand why some people seem happy to take the risk.


But that's a choice you & your family have made for what you think is best. As I said previously if I had listened to my mum's oncologist then she would have spent the last few months of her life on her own, she would have been in absolute despair had we done this & in no way is that humane IMO.

I just find it very judgemental of people who have no idea of the heartache that many families are going through during this. Surely if people are making decisions to meet with friends or family based on their best judgements then that is their decision. There are many risks in life & sometimes some are worth taking because of the benefits that outweigh them


----------



## Arny

ForestWomble said:


> I haven't seen my Gran for a year, we honestly didn't think she'd still be alive for this Christmas, but amazingly she is, we suspect that this will be her last Christmas, but we don't want to increase those odds that it will be by potentially infecting her, and she doesn't want to risk making any of us sick, so as hard as it is we are keeping apart.
> I'm not saying you are wrong, we have to decide whats best for our individual families, and of course I'm not speaking for Bisbow or anyone else who is keeping away from family this year, but I'll admit I find it hard to understand why some people seem happy to take the risk.


And that's fine too but I don't begrudge people that choose to visit their elderly loved ones.
Many of which would rather be dead than be alone.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had my Flu Jab and I was talking to the pharmacist who did it about the Covid vaccination. I said I was worried that it is been rolled out without been tested long enough. I was surprised when he agreed with me and said looking at this list of what's wrong with you, he said he be worried about any side effects for me and to wait until they have tested it a little longer.


----------



## Arny

The government have realised keeping families apart is a huge welfare issue.
That's why they're now starting rapid testing for care homes so that people can visit.


----------



## Jobeth

My parents are in my bubble so I shall be seeing them Christmas Day. We also meet every Saturday for a walk. I’d rather enjoy the time I have with them and they feel the same. If people feel differently then that is their choice.


----------



## Magyarmum

Here in Hungary apart from restrictions about visiting care homes and hospital, there's never been any restrictions on visiting your elderly relations at home providing, if I remember rightly, there are no more than 10 people at any one time.

We've been in an extremely hard lockdown since the 1st of November, with the risk of stiff fines for not complying with the rules of mask wearing and social distancing, and slowly the number of new infections is coming down.

Today it was announced that the government has reintroduced 65 and over only, shopping hours from 9 to 11 am Mon to Friday. It worked very well and I'm pleased it's come back if only for the peace of mind it gives one.

And an article well worth reading IMO

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-w...er&r=1716868622119643&lid=1682243&pm_ln=62963

*Coronavirus: WHO warns of COVID-19 third wave, says Europe failed to learn from Asia*


----------



## O2.0

Arny said:


> Many of which would rather be dead than be alone.


I'm taking my cues from those more vulnerable than me.

My 72 year old friend who's basically my second mom normally hosts Thanksgiving and Christmas. She is a cancer survivor, currently in great health, rides and takes care of her horses every day, and no reason to believe she doesn't have many more healthy years left. She has cancelled Thanksgiving and we are happy to honor that.

Another friend's mother is the same age, but with a terminal diagnosis and doesn't expect to be around much more. She wants to see everyone in her large family - safely, they will wear masks and gather outside, but she wants to be around her loved ones and watch her grandkids play. I can't imagine denying her that.

Of course here in the US we have no restrictions on in-home gatherings so no one is breaking any "rules" either way.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> Of course here in the US we have no restrictions on in-home gatherings so no one is breaking any "rules" either way.


That depends on where you live. Some places do have restrictions on in home gatherings, including how many people and mask wearing regulations.

And hotlines for your neighbor to report you.


----------



## Bisbow

I can see other peoples point of view but after talking to my daughter I still feel the same
She says she could not live with the guilt if we got it because of her job, she is a district nurse and visits all sort of people

We will be alone until summer


----------



## ForestWomble

Cleo38 said:


> But that's a choice you & your family have made for what you think is best. As I said previously if I had listened to my mum's oncologist then she would have spent the last few months of her life on her own, she would have been in absolute despair had we done this & in no way is that humane IMO.
> 
> I just find it very judgemental of people who have no idea of the heartache that many families are going through during this. Surely if people are making decisions to meet with friends or family based on their best judgements then that is their decision. There are many risks in life & sometimes some are worth taking because of the benefits that outweigh them


The situation with your mum was different, of course you should be able to visit if a loved one is dying and you are all happy to take the risk.

I don't know how to explain what I mean, but as I said above we have to decide what is best for our individual families.

I do understand the heartache that this pandemic has/is causing, I lost a cousin during the first lockdown and the hospital rules meant no one could visit, it was awful for her mum and sisters. For us that's made it that we don't want to go through it again, I understand that for others it would be different.


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> I'm taking my cues from those more vulnerable than me.


Exactly, everyone has to do what they're comfortable. 
Just because you might be allowed to visit family at Christmas doesn't mean anyone should feel pressured either way.

I dislike the pitting people against each other that this virus seems to have caused.


----------



## catz4m8z

Bisbow said:


> I can see other peoples point of view but after talking to my daughter I still feel the same
> She says she could not live with the guilt if we got it because of her job, she is a district nurse and visits all sort of people
> 
> We will be alone until summer


I think Im in the same boat as you @Bisbow. My parents live in the area with the highest infection rate in the country currently and I work in a hospital, sometimes with covid patients. This year we will be exchanging gifts on the doorstep like an Amazon delivery driver and making do with phonecalls on christmas!

Everybody has to do their own risk assessments though, within government restrictions.


----------



## tabelmabel

I agree with all comments on here - i definitely agree people need to weigh up what is right for them and their circumstances.


I personally am really worried about getting the virus so have weighed up that it just isnt worth it at all and we will stay hunkered down. But, though im very much in the 'christmas isnt so fantastic that im going to chance an illness that sees me struggling for breath' camp (i had pneumonia last Christmas and, quite frankly, id rather see no one than be fighting for breath again - not nice), people need to be able to weigh up what risks are worth it to them.

And many elderly folk, on their last Christmas anyway, would want to be with family and friends.

So i say fine to have 90 yr old Aunt Betty round for Christmas, as long as everyone is comfortable with the risk of it finishing her off and burying her come January.


I suppose what will be difficult for some families is when Aunt Betty wants to come but no one is comfortable with passing her a killer virus.

Fortunately, i have no such dilemma as my mum in law will keep safe on her own and we will catch up next year.

I do have an elderly Aunt though that we should have seen in April and she is quite frail now and might well not make it through til it is safe to visit again.

She is being very cautious though, so God willing, we will get to see her again.



But, yes, trust adults to understand the consequences of their actions and they will make the right decisions.


----------



## lorilu

My friend is coming over for Thanksgiving as is our usual tradition which is Thursday. She is retired and probably has very little exposure to anyone or anything. I don't know if she goes to the store, or has groceries delivered. I work (in a building closed to the public) and go to the store every 2-3 weeks, including yesterday. She has requested that we both wear masks, except while eating our meal, while she is in my home.

I said of course, though I am not thrilled with the idea. More because I worry it will cause stress to my cats to see us sitting around with half our faces covered, than any discomfort to myself. I am used to wearing a mask at work.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think making the choice to be with a loved one who would otherwise be on their own or who is on borrowed time because of terminal illness is one thing.

However, a family group being able to mix with another family group for a few days because “it’s Xmas” is an unnecessary risk imo.

Surely, this recent Lockdown will just be a waste if the virus spreads again over Xmas?

What then?

People will make their own decision, but I do wonder if loosening the rules will just mean more people will push the boundaries further, than might have otherwise done so.

MIL might not see another Xmas but because OH is very vulnerable, we can’t risk his health to visit with her even if she were happy for us to. Especially as BIL is visiting her and neither he nor his family are sticking to the rules.


----------



## Siskin

lorilu said:


> My friend is coming over for Thanksgiving as is our usual tradition which is Thursday. She is retired and probably has very little exposure to anyone or anything. I don't know if she goes to the store, or has groceries delivered. I work (in a building closed to the public) and go to the store every 2-3 weeks, including yesterday. She has requested that we both wear masks, except while eating our meal, while she is in my home.
> 
> I said of course, though I am not thrilled with the idea. More because I worry it will cause stress to my cats to see us sitting around with half our faces covered, than any discomfort to myself. I am used to wearing a mask at work.


Do you think a face shield would be acceptable to your friend rather then a mask? Perhaps the cats won't be so freaked by that.
If not perhaps wear a mask round the house for short periods so they get used to seeing it on you


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Do you think a face shield would be acceptable to your friend rather then a mask? Perhaps the cats won't be so freaked by that.
> If not perhaps wear a mask round the house for short periods so they get used to seeing it on you


Well I haven't got a face shield but wearing the mask around for short periods for the next few days is a good idea, thank you. I'll do that.


----------



## Bisbow

I can see the infection rates going up like a rocket in January

I just do not want someone I love to be among them

But whatever Boris does he will be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't
I don't envy him


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> Do you think a face shield would be acceptable to your friend rather then a mask? Perhaps the cats won't be so freaked by that.
> If not perhaps wear a mask round the house for short periods so they get used to seeing it on you


Funny, I honestly thought this would have bothered my dogs much more than it did. They didn't seem bothered & the cats didn't even notice


----------



## lorilu

Cleo38 said:


> Funny, I honestly thought this would have bothered my dogs much more than it did. They didn't seem bothered & the cats didn't even notice


I too wonder if they would even notice. They do stare at me a lot though, so I expect they would. But I don't really know. It's just they've had so much stress lately, with the move and all, I just worry about adding to it.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> People will make their own decision, but I do wonder if loosening the rules will just mean more people will push the boundaries further, than might have otherwise done so


They havent made an official announcement yet, have they? I'm sure these restrictions are being loosened as they know they can't police the situation.

But, to cover themselves, i'm surprised they aren't urging people, in the strongest possible terms, to continue with restrictions ove the festive period.

Letting people know there will be no enforcement, but appealing to us to pull together now for the sake of the nation and the NHS.

Because the way they are doing it - IF they just loosen up for 5 or 6 days and send the message out - away you all go and make merry - it is going to be a disaster when folk are literally dying outside hospital main gates and surgery car parks because there are no beds and no corridors even to get folk admitted to the building.


----------



## simplysardonic

We'll be having a quiet Christmas as OH is shielding, so no friends & family over like we usually do, but we'll do Skype with everyone we can't see on the day.

Just found out another friend of ours has died, not sure what of at present so may not be covid, but so far this year we've lost 3 family members & 2 friends so I've just about had enough of 2020.


----------



## Cully

What is Christmas anyway? Certainly not a religious celebration for the majority these days. Generally, people spend vast sums of money they can ill afford then spend the following 6 months in debt. They buy more food than they can ever hope to eat and then throw what's left away. They put up with visiting or having visitors they wouldn't normally entertain, and probably wont speak to for another 12 months.
Christmas is now mainly an excuse to stuff yourself and drink yourself stupid, hopefully at someone else's expense. 
People who have been flouting the rules will continue to do so, but this time with Boris's permission.
Of course there will be another lockdown next year as the virus takes hold again and people continue act irresponsibly.
It's about time this government took a hard line and stopped Christmas celebrations altogether for the foreseeable future. Get everyone vaccinated, keep hospital admissions down, give ourselves the best chance of getting on top of the virus, and look forward to being reunited with loved ones instead of burying them!!
And for anyone upset about not being able to practice their religious beliefs, well surely an all loving God would understand our reasoning at this time.


----------



## Lurcherlad

simplysardonic said:


> We'll be having a quiet Christmas as OH is shielding, so no friends & family over like we usually do, but we'll do Skype with everyone we can't see on the day.
> 
> Just found out another friend of ours has died, not sure what of at present so may not be covid, but so far this year we've lost 3 family members & 2 friends so I've just about had enough of 2020.


You've been hit hard .... sorry for your loss


----------



## tabelmabel

I agree with all that too @Cully. An official 'cancellation of Christmas' would bring relief to many, I'm sure. Relief to those struggling financially not having to bear the burden of having to buy things they can ill afford, relief to those struggling with difficult relationships, depression, loneliness. If only a way could have been found to 'bring us all together' in our individual units, this might have brought a sense of togetherness that we are all united for one common goal and helped people living alone feel less isolated (knowing that many others are in exactly the same boat this year)

Interestingly, there was a phone in on Radio Scotland this morning to see what folks' plans were and only one person that called in was planning on having anyone round.

Everyone else said to postpone celebrations altogether this year. Same discussion on Jeremy Vine much more mixed views. Whether that is because folk feel more 'on board with restrictions' in Scotland or maybe see Hogmanay as more of a time for celebration and Christmas less so, i dont know.

But I dont think this 'save our Christmas' plan of Boris's is as important to people as he thinks it will be. There is a significant percentage of folk would rather see it cancelled for this year, it would seem.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> So i say fine to have 90 yr old Aunt Betty round for Christmas, as long as everyone is comfortable with the risk of it finishing her off and burying her come January.


My dad was in this dilemma.
My grandpa was desperate for people to visit so my dad has been staying with him every couple of weeks since the end of the last lockdown.
Other family however have been shielding themselves so of course needed to stayed away.
He passed away recently, thankfully not covid but if it were my dad would have had to live with the possibility of being the one to have given it to him and the rest of the family now have to live with the fact they couldn't see him.
Its a very difficult situation all round.


----------



## O2.0

Arny said:


> I dislike the pitting people against each other that this virus seems to have caused.


This. So much this. Instead of people simply doing their best to look out for each other, somehow this whole mask and social distancing thing has turned in to a virtue signaling competition and shame fest for anyone not doing things 'right'. 
People judging others, assuming their intentions, all sorts of unkindness. It's rather depressing really. 


lorilu said:


> And hotlines for your neighbor to report you.


Perfect example. Does reporting your neighbor for having 12 people over instead of 10 really save lives at all? Is having that hotline and making that call doing anything for the greater good? I can't imagine it is.



Cully said:


> What is Christmas anyway? Certainly not a religious celebration for the majority these days. Generally, people spend vast sums of money they can ill afford then spend the following 6 months in debt. They buy more food than they can ever hope to eat and then throw what's left away. They put up with visiting or having visitors they wouldn't normally entertain, and probably wont speak to for another 12 months.
> Christmas is now mainly an excuse to stuff yourself and drink yourself stupid, hopefully at someone else's expense.


Wow... 
Christmas is not a religious holiday for me, but it's nothing like what you describe either. There's no alcohol at all at our get togethers, a lot of food, yes, but no leftovers, we make plates for those who couldn't make it and deliver them afterwards. Only the kids get gifts, no adult gift exchange, we're happy to see each other. I get to see people I wouldn't normally get to see, catch up with them and their kids, we go for a walk in the fields, ride horses, it's really a lovely day. 
Granted, it's not family, we are a hodgepodge of folks who have come to become family with our yearly tradition. I think if Christmas were anything like what you describe, I would opt out.

BTW if you haven't had a chance to hear about this story, this is lovely, and sad, but mostly lovely:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/us/teen-grandma-thanksgiving-text-coronavirus-husband-trnd/index.html

And here is the text exchange that led to their tradition
https://www.cosmopolitanme.com/cont...stranger-being-invited-to-thanksgiving-dinner


----------



## tabelmabel

Arny said:


> Its a very difficult situation all round.


Agree with what you say - but didn't want to click the like button. I'm sorry to hear you lost your Grandpa this year; mercifully your Dad can take comfort in that he was there for him and caused no harm to him. What a relief it must have been to find it wasn't covid related.

It is so very difficult and this is why i respect everyone's decision to do as they think best. We all need to make the decisions that we can live with, ultimately.


----------



## Siskin

My friend has just told me that their son and his wife and daughter will be coming for Christmas. The family will self isolate for at least a week prior to the visit and try and get one of the rapid tests done if available. Then friends husband will pick them up from London so they don’t travel on the bus or train as they normally do. I guess that’s the best they can do to keep safe. It’s not something I would contemplate doing, I just don’t think it’s worth it. I’m happy to wait until the summer in the hope that covid will be on the wane once the vaccination program gets going.

We will have a four way zoom with son, daughter and SIL on the day.


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> You've been hit hard .... sorry for your loss


Thankyou <3 it really has been an awful year, but I'm grateful for the good things too.

I'll be raising a hot cup of tea while listening to some Al Green for my friend tonight.


----------



## tabelmabel

Siskin said:


> We will have a four way zoom with son, daughter and SIL on the day


Great plan! We will do something similar - just hope t'internet holds up


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> Agree with what you say - but didn't want to click the like button. I'm sorry to hear you lost your Grandpa this year; mercifully your Dad can take comfort in that he was there for him and caused no harm to him. What a relief it must have been to find it wasn't covid related.


Thank you, yes huge relief when we got the result back.
It was quite a shock but he was 96 and in the end his body just gave up. Not a bad way to go really.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Apparently, it’s going to be allowed for a family to “bubble up” with up to 4 other households over 5 days over Xmas ......

I just don’t get it tbh.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> Perfect example. Does reporting your neighbor for having 12 people over instead of 10 really save lives at all? Is having that hotline and making that call doing anything for the greater good? I can't imagine it is.


I agree. In my community it possibly was initially established because of the college student party crisis earlier this fall.

I've just received a headline alert in my e mail that there were 70 new cases confirmed over the weekend here, none were from the colleges. We are a small rural community. 70 in one weekend is a lot. I wonder if my friend will decide not to come at all. I won't mind if she does decide that, but I better get some potatoes for my turkey dinner just in case. She's in charge of potatoes and pie.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> New Apparently, it's going to be allowed for a family to "bubble up" with up to 4 other households over 5 days over Xmas ......


Where did you see that @Lurcherlad ? I cant find that.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> Where did you see that @Lurcherlad ? I cant find that.


Announced on Loose Women ... corrected up to 4 families may meet.


----------



## tabelmabel

Is it official though - i have looked down the live feed from boris's speech and it isnt coming up there at all - nor on any headlines.

Surely not 4 households together though - that could easily be 30 folk!!

I know they were talking about the possibility of 3 households together for Scotland but they want this 4 nations approach.

This is what we have:

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/coronavirus-wont-take-christmas-off-when-rules-are-eased

That link is the latest of the live feed for Scotland, published at 1.12pm today.

There's nothing else there so far and i cant find the boris thing on bbc either - just the move from lockdown into the tiered system.


----------



## samuelsmiles3




----------



## tabelmabel

Sweet pic @samuelsmiles3 but my mum in law has definitely banned all grandchildren from the premises lol!

Tbf though, we arent a very cuddly family so we are quite glad of this social distancing stuff


----------



## Happy Paws2

We are lucky we are't in situation most of you are in. There is only the two of us, so we don't have to worry about not seeing family for Christmas. So Christmas as normal for us.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> Is it official though - i have looked down the live feed from boris's speech and it isnt coming up there at all - nor on any headlines.
> 
> Surely not 4 households together though - that could easily be 30 folk!!
> 
> I know they were talking about the possibility of 3 households together for Scotland but they want this 4 nations approach.
> 
> This is what we have:
> 
> https://news.stv.tv/scotland/coronavirus-wont-take-christmas-off-when-rules-are-eased
> 
> That link is the latest of the live feed for Scotland, published at 1.12pm today.
> 
> There's nothing else there so far and i cant find the boris thing on bbc either - just the move from lockdown into the tiered system.


Only repeating what was read out on LW


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Only repeating what was read out on LW


Thanks - i dont think that is official. He is speaking right now ch 4!


----------



## tabelmabel

Hmmmm. Nothing til later this week it seems . . .


----------



## SusieRainbow

My grandson just messaged me to say he is Covid Positive ! Apart from loss of taste he's asymtomatic.


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> My grandson just messaged me to say he is Covid Positive ! Apart from loss of taste he's asymtomatic.


Hoping it stays like that.

Has he been near anyone he's worried about?


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> My grandson just messaged me to say he is Covid Positive ! Apart from loss of taste he's asymtomatic.


Oh, I really hope it doesn't develop further. Must be worrying for you


----------



## StormyThai

Sweet Picture @samuelsmiles3 but not all of us are willing to take that risk.
Especially as it's not just loved ones effected if you (general you) pass on the virus...

Sorry but I can't agree with all this "Stuff the rules I am going to meet people because I've decided that I am low risk" 
It's very selfish and those of us not willing to take that risk are left with a "Why are we bothering again?"

Just wanted to get that off my chest


----------



## JoanneF

What if people were allowed to meet family or friends, but were all required to isolate for two weeks after - would that work?


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> Hoping it stays like that.
> 
> Has he been near anyone he's worried about?


I saw him on 15th November, his class were off school self isolatng then due to a case. We just chatted for a few minutes on the doorstep. 
Not sure about anyone else , don't think so. Apparently it's rife in the local schools, my other grandson is off too self-isolating.


----------



## tabelmabel

JoanneF said:


> What if people were allowed to meet family or friends, but were all required to isolate for two weeks after - would that work?


Theoretically, maybe, but of course people will not do what they need to do.

And then of course there are so many other factors. For example, if my daughter came home, she would travel on public transport. Think of all the people she could come into contact with on a journey and then multiply up across an entire population.

Even folk travelling by car tend to stop off for fuel or the loo.

And, so many people do not get the idea of social distancing at all. You only need to look around every day to see that.

Im definitely hunkering down with my doors shut. Tbh, i dont even want anyone to pass on a heavy cold at christmas.

We do normally have really fun times at christmas but not so fun that i want ti be left gasping for breath or dying for them tbh.


----------



## tabelmabel

SusieRainbow said:


> Apparently it's rife in the local schools, my other grandson is off too self-isolating.


Yes, it's in our schools too. Just had an email last night to say a pupil at my daughter's high school has tested positive. She doesnt need to self isolate apparently as she is not a contact. Last week it was 2 teachers.

I live in a small rural town (more like a large village) we had our first covid death last week - 63yr old.

It definitely is coming in closer to where i live now. Im not at all worried for my daughter. She is fit and healthy. Im glad she can be at school.

Im sure your grandson will be ok, susie but take care of yourself.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Theoretically, maybe, but of course people will not do what they need to do.
> 
> And then of course there are so many other factors. For example, if my daughter came home, she would travel on public transport. Think of all the people she could come into contact with on a journey and then multiply up across an entire population.
> 
> Even folk travelling by car tend to stop off for fuel or the loo.
> 
> And, so many people do not get the idea of social distancing at all. You only need to look around every day to see that.
> 
> Im definitely hunkering down with my doors shut. Tbh, i dont even want anyone to pass on a heavy cold at christmas.
> 
> We do normally have really fun times at christmas but not so fun that i want ti be left gasping for breath or dying for them tbh.


Added to that most of my family are key workers so can't isolate. I work in schools with pupils who are vulnerable to infection I'd be mortified if I picked something up and took it in. I'm having a quiet Xmas with my sister who's in my bubbble and the boxers of course. Sox is aghast as my sister is vegan which means nut roast so he may be joining @Happy Paws2 he hears you have steak.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Added to that most of my family are key workers so can't isolate. I work in schools with pupils who are vulnerable to infection I'd be mortified if I picked something up and took it in. I'm having a quiet Xmas with my sister who's in my bubbble and the boxers of course. *Sox is aghast as my sister is vegan which means nut roast so he may be joining @Happy Paws2 he hears you have steak*.


We are having a sirloin joint for Christmas but I'd buy a steak just for him if he wants to join us.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Added to that most of my family are key workers so can't isolate. I work in schools with pupils who are vulnerable to infection I'd be mortified if I picked something up and took it in. I'm having a quiet Xmas with my sister who's in my bubbble and the boxers of course. Sox is aghast as my sister is vegan which means nut roast so he may be joining @Happy Paws2 he hears you have steak.


I haven't seen my son and DIL for 18 months or my granddaughter since Christmas last year and I've no idea when, or if ever, I'll see them again.

Christmas for me will be spent with the Schnauzer boys and I'll try to make it a special day. Usually I buy something new to wear on Christmas Day but this year will be wearing my new clothes from last year. I've already got a Christmas cake and a pudding so will cook a nice meal for me and the boys. If the weather's fine we'll go for a walk which if like previous years could be in the snow. If not we'll snuggle up together in front of a nice warm fire and watch TV. Could be worse!


----------



## Jobeth

The picture is cute but it’s also within the rules if they are your support bubble. Several of my friends have grandparents that provide childcare.


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> I saw him on 15th November, his class were off school self isolatng then due to a case. We just chatted for a few minutes on the doorstep.
> Not sure about anyone else , don't think so. Apparently it's rife in the local schools, my other grandson is off too self-isolating.


Here too. All local schools have now been closed "temporarily" because of outbreaks. Supposedly most will re open after the Thanksgiving break.


----------



## SbanR

Apologies to those who've already read this article but it's reassured me somewhat as it's highly likely I'll be offered the Oxford vaccine

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371


----------



## lorilu

Our new cases have jumped to 100, and I was incorrect up above, one local school has stayed open to in person instruction despite several cases. The rest closed "until after the /thanksgiving break".


----------



## Siskin

SbanR said:


> Apologies to those who've already read this article but it's reassured me somewhat as it's highly likely I'll be offered the Oxford vaccine
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371


Me too, seems like the best type for older people


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well, husband and I have decided we will happily spend Christmas just the three of us. His Dad is currently up in London and has formed a bubble with his Auntie (who lives down here)...but it's more a bubble to have somewhere to sleep when he comes to see his mates and play golf (which isn't exactly the idea, considering travel from tier 2 isn't encouraged!). Neither of them are particularly careful, so I'm back to not wanting to take risks to catch anything to pass on to my ladies at work. Husband's brother and family may come down after Christmas (they are in Surrey) - and I suspect if it is "four families together" then they will all want to meet up. I shall not be seeing them inside - if they want to go for a walk up the Prom, I'll possibly do that. 

There is no way on earth that I am jeopardising all the good I've done since March just for a few days over the festive season. FIL is in tier 2, my Mum & Nan (my only family) are also in tier 2 (not London) and I've not seen them for months and months. I'd generally only see them a couple of times a year, for less than a day at a time as I have to do 11 hours round trip driving to see them, due to Oscar's medications so it's not really making much difference to me. 

I sound like a misery, I'm really not, I'm just not much of a rule breaker and working so close to the Covid wards as I do, I want to mitigate my risk as much as I possibly can.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Apologies to those who've already read this article but it's reassured me somewhat as it's highly likely I'll be offered the Oxford vaccine
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371


It's fascinating reading about how it was done and the fact it isn't really 'new' which is what people seem worried about.


----------



## Cully

StormyThai said:


> Sweet Picture @samuelsmiles3 but not all of us are willing to take that risk.
> Especially as it's not just loved ones effected if you (general you) pass on the virus...
> 
> Sorry but I can't agree with all this "Stuff the rules I am going to meet people because I've decided that I am low risk"
> It's very selfish and those of us not willing to take that risk are left with a "Why are we bothering again?"
> 
> Just wanted to get that off my chest


Yes, I didn't think it was appropriate in the circumstances either. Gives the wrong impression.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, husband and I have decided we will happily spend Christmas just the three of us. His Dad is currently up in London and has formed a bubble with his Auntie (who lives down here)...but it's more a bubble to have somewhere to sleep when he comes to see his mates and play golf (which isn't exactly the idea, considering travel from tier 2 isn't encouraged!). Neither of them are particularly careful, so I'm back to not wanting to take risks to catch anything to pass on to my ladies at work. Husband's brother and family may come down after Christmas (they are in Surrey) - and I suspect if it is "four families together" then they will all want to meet up. I shall not be seeing them inside - if they want to go for a walk up the Prom, I'll possibly do that.
> 
> There is no way on earth that I am jeopardising all the good I've done since March just for a few days over the festive season. FIL is in tier 2, my Mum & Nan (my only family) are also in tier 2 (not London) and I've not seen them for months and months. I'd generally only see them a couple of times a year, for less than a day at a time as I have to do 11 hours round trip driving to see them, due to Oscar's medications so it's not really making much difference to me.
> 
> I sound like a misery, I'm really not, I'm just not much of a rule breaker and working so close to the Covid wards as I do, I want to mitigate my risk as much as I possibly can.


I think you are entitled to be a misery. The scientists have said these plans will see a rise. We are one of the worst effected countries in the world. January is going to be hellish for NHS workers.

No one need spend it alone if you live alone and have a social bubble. 608 deaths today I think any more mixing is bonkers. A massive kick in the teeth for those who celebrate Eid and Diwali who were told to stay home and did.


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> I think any more mixing is bonkers.


I agree. As do many, many others. Maybe their idea is that, by throwing us some slack, there's nothing to rebel against and we will self-police.

Mind you, still no official announcement. Maybe they are trying to judge the public mood . . . .


----------



## tabelmabel

Im behind the news - just watching now. I didnt realise the official announcement had been made! Crazy! Wonder what happens about students like my son?

Are students included in this 5 day thing or are they seperate? At one point they were sending them home in staggered blocks from 9th dec onwards. 

Just watching the advice. Sit with all your windows open. Dont pass glasses around. Bring your own utensils.


Basically if someone comes in with the virus, im pretty sure none of these measures are going to do much to stop everyone getting it.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Im behind the news - just watching now. I didnt realise the official announcement had been made! Crazy! Wonder what happens about students like my son?
> 
> Are students included in this 5 day thing or are they seperate? At one point they were sending them home in staggered blocks from 9th dec onwards.
> 
> Just watching the advice. Sit with all your windows open. Dont pass glasses around. Bring your own utensils.
> 
> Basically if someone comes in with the virus, im pretty sure none of these measures are going to do much to stop everyone getting it.


Good point about students who knows! Sitting with the windows open my nan complains about the cold when you have the heating on the top setting.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Dear oh heck. We have been in (sort of, half-arsed) lockdown and now suddenly we can be with family/friends for five days and hug them? 

Jeez. I have no words. 

Well, I do. I just can't type them here or I'll be banned.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I agree. As do many, many others. Maybe their idea is that, by throwing us some slack, there's nothing to rebel against and we will self-police.
> 
> Mind you, still no official announcement. Maybe they are trying to judge the public mood . . . .


Ime ... give an inch, they'll take a mile


----------



## Happy Paws2

I think we'll be paying for it in January when the figures start to rise again.


----------



## O2.0

What is the vaccine timeline looking like for the UK?
In the US they're saying front-line workers and the most vulnerable might be able to expect to be vaccinated as early as late December. Still needs a 2 week booster, but that's still an important part of the population vaccinated (if they wish) by mid January. 

Both of the vaccines in the works are mRNA vaccines which have much less of chance of side effects, and with a 90 to 95% effectiveness it's sounding more and more promising.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> What is the vaccine timeline looking like for the UK?
> In the US they're saying front-line workers and the most vulnerable might be able to expect to be vaccinated as early as late December. Still needs a 2 week booster, but that's still an important part of the population vaccinated (if they wish) by mid January.
> 
> Both of the vaccines in the works are mRNA vaccines which have much less of chance of side effects, and with a 90 to 95% effectiveness it's sounding more and more promising.


Similar they are hoping to have most vaccinated by spring. So in reality we could all have a cracking Easter we just need to get over the last hurdle.


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> What is the vaccine timeline looking like for the UK?
> In the US they're saying front-line workers and the most vulnerable might be able to expect to be vaccinated as early as late December. Still needs a 2 week booster, but that's still an important part of the population vaccinated (if they wish) by mid January.
> 
> Both of the vaccines in the works are mRNA vaccines which have much less of chance of side effects, and with a 90 to 95% effectiveness it's sounding more and more promising.


If the Oxford vaccine is approved then next month. A two stage type again, apparently if a weaker version is given first then it alerts the bodies own defences to deal with the virus, the second inoculation given two two weeks later is stronger and strengthens the defence. If the full vaccine was given in one jab it could overwhelm and kill off some of the bodies natural defences.
The first people to be inoculate are the elderly in care homes and the staff and presumably front line staff, then those 80 and above and those with critical conditions (don't know whether I come under that or not)


----------



## Jaf

I believe that in Spain restrictions are to be lifted jan 24th and 31st. I’m worried about all the new cases this will make.

I’m a bit of a rule breaker. I am not allowed to travel outside of my municipality except for work, medical or to buy things not available locally. I live 15mins from my village and 17mins from town that’s not in my municipality (opposite directions). My post goes to town and the decent supermarket is in town. Every 2 weeks I go to town, to the post place and to the decent supermarket and buy cat food that the cats will actually eat. I’m not 100% sure that cats’ needs are covered under the exceptions. But I don’t work or go out or meet people at all apart from food shopping and medical, so I don’t really feel bad for doing this. Also, to be honest, the cat food is twice the price and if I shop in 1 supermarket rather than going to the village where I’d have to go to 4 shops!


----------



## mrs phas

They're still saying those with compromised immune systems may not be able to have it though
As it's a live vaccine
I've been a good girl and had my flu jab as per, but that's a 'dead vaccine', didn't even get a sore arm this year


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> As it's a live vaccine


The two main vaccines here are mRNA vaccines. No virus live, weakened, or dead in them at all.


----------



## tabelmabel

Nicola sturgeon didn't look too comfortable with the new rules around Christmas when she spoke last night. Her message seemed to be 'if you can possibly stick it out without household mixing, please do so'

_"Before you reach out to friends and family, think carefully about whether you need to form a bubble.
"Just because you can mix with others indoors over this time, that doesn't mean you have to.
"If you choose to stick with the rules as they are, then you will be continuing the hard work to beat this virus and prevent its spread to the elderly and the vulnerable.
"We have all sacrificed so much since the early days of 2020 in order to keep our friends and families safe.
"So much so, that to throw away the progress we have made on keeping Covid-19 from our doors - just when a way out of this crisis appears to be in sight - would be irresponsible and potentially bring with it tragic consequences."

_
Christmas has just come round a little too quickly this year - would have been fantastic if we'd all had our vaccines by now.


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Christmas has just come round a little too quickly this year - *would have been fantastic if we'd all had our vaccines by now*.


It would be nice, but you can't rush these things and that's what they are doing. No long term testing has been done, how long will protection last and what are the long term side effects going to be. Still not sure if I be rushing out to have it done.


----------



## Magyarmum

We have an 8 pm to 5 am curfew her in Hungary. Only people who are coming or going from work are allowed to be out during those times. The streets of Budapest are deserted and it seems to be paying off because the cases of new infections is slowly going down.


----------



## tabelmabel

I know what you're saying @Happy Paws2 and im glad im only priority group 10 and there will be plenty in the queue before me. What's the betting someone suffers a horrendous reaction and the whole programme has to be halted.

I do hope not. I hope it all goes smoothly and we can be back to normal times by next summer.

I was just whistfully imagining what a wonderful thing it would have been if this had all been over in time for Christmas. Pure fantasy - if only it could have come true.

In other news - i cant believe what i was hearing on the radio this morning - apparently if you have a student in university accomodation when they come home they count at being part of your household?!

So, say you had 3 kids at seperate unis (as the woman phoning in did) they can all come home and count as one.

Then you can have an additional 2.

I cant say 100% that is right but it is a political show on radio scotland and the hosts are generally pretty smart and articulate. They were just checking the guidance on air,

I suppose they might have that wrong because that does not seem sensible to me at all.

That's looking very good where you are @Magyarmum. High compliance with the rules! Good to see.


----------



## kimthecat

Some good news , I have a date for my infusions for RA early in January, Just waiting for official letter. Just hoping that its not cancelled if rise in Covid patients etc. The increased steroids have helped and maybe Christmas wont be as bad as I anticipate .


----------



## Lurcherlad

The prospect of missing one Xmas with some members of the family still doesn’t compare to a young soldier going off to war while his baby is still in the womb and not spending a Xmas with them until they are 5 years old .... or not at all 

I haven’t spent Xmas with my sister and her immediate family for 20 years (flights are too expensive) yet we’ve survived.


----------



## Bisbow

I can't help thinking everything will be going belly up at the end of January in a big way

I hope and pray I am wrong but I won't hold my breath


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> The prospect of missing one Xmas with some members of the family still doesn't compare to a young soldier going off to war while his baby is still in the womb and not spending a Xmas with them until they are 5 years old .... or not at all
> 
> I haven't spent Xmas with my sister and her immediate family for 20 years (flights are too expensive) yet we've survived.


What's that for? There are always worse things. Dying in a hospital bed is probably not as bad as being tortured and murdered by your parents and buried under the patio, but it doesn't mean family members shouldn't grieve and miss you, or talk about it. Why wouldn't people want to be with family they haven't seen for longer than usual because of covid. I don't care whether I see my sons and granddaughter or not, so long as they're ok, but if I did I'd want to talk about it, especially if I was isolated.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> What's that for? There are always worse things. Dying in a hospital bed is probably not as bad as being tortured and murdered by your parents and buried under the patio, but it doesn't mean family members shouldn't grieve and miss you, or talk about it. Why wouldn't people want to be with family they haven't seen for longer than usual because of covid. I don't care whether I see my sons and granddaughter or not, so long as they're ok, but if I did I'd want to talk about it, especially if I was isolated.


Each to their own, of course.

I don't remember saying people can't talk about things.

Nor did I say anyone who is isolated should remain so.


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> Each to their own, of course.
> 
> I don't remember saying people can't talk about things.
> 
> Nor did I say anyone who is isolated should remain so.


Maybe I misinterpreted your post, but it looked as though you were criticising people like magyarmum for talking about not being able to see their family.  Could be just me though. My son, his wife and my granddaughter were supposed to be coming over from Gibraltar to visit this year or early next, but of course it's cancelled.

My husband and I have just recovered from Covid. I'm happy, because I thought it would kill one of us, but we both survived it. I was so ill for 3 of the days, couldn't move, could barely breathe and couldn't eat, just drink water, and it did the 'you think it's all over' when it wasn't, but I'm still here and managed to stay out of hospital. One of the symptoms I hadn't read about was the pain. It feels like having cramp, like you get in your feet, I'm sure most people have had that. I thought I had cramp in my ribs, back and hip and tried to stretch and straighten to get rid of it, that was pretty bad. Means I can't get covid again for 4 months at least though, which is nice. Fear of covid isn't good either.


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> My husband and I have just recovered from Covid. I'm happy, because I thought it would kill one of us, but we both survived it. I was so ill for 3 of the days, couldn't move, could barely breathe and couldn't eat, just drink water, and it did the 'you think it's all over' when it wasn't, but I'm still here and managed to stay out of hospital. One of the symptoms I hadn't read about was the pain. It feels like having cramp, like you get in your feet, I'm sure most people have had that. I thought I had cramp in my ribs, back and hip and tried to stretch and straighten to get rid of it, that was pretty bad. Means I can't get covid again for 4 months at least though, which is nice. Fear of covid isn't good either.


Glad you both made it to the other side


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> Maybe I misinterpreted your post, but it looked as though you were criticising people like magyarmum for talking about not being able to see their family.  Could be just me though. My son, his wife and my granddaughter were supposed to be coming over from Gibraltar to visit this year or early next, but of course it's cancelled.
> 
> My husband and I have just recovered from Covid. I'm happy, because I thought it would kill one of us, but we both survived it. I was so ill for 3 of the days, couldn't move, could barely breathe and couldn't eat, just drink water, and it did the 'you think it's all over' when it wasn't, but I'm still here and managed to stay out of hospital. One of the symptoms I hadn't read about was the pain. It feels like having cramp, like you get in your feet, I'm sure most people have had that. I thought I had cramp in my ribs, back and hip and tried to stretch and straighten to get rid of it, that was pretty bad. Means I can't get covid again for 4 months at least though, which is nice. Fear of covid isn't good either.


I was definitely not criticising people like @Magyarmum or yourself who are isolated from her family. I am too, so understand fully.

Just a bit tired of hearing those healthy individuals (and at low risk) who live round the corner from family and see them all the time (even during Covid some inside, others outside the guidelines) who keep bellyaching they can't sit round a table for a roast on one particular day of the year.


----------



## Elles

I haven’t met anyone other than my husband since it started. He’s been doing all the shopping etc. Unfortunately he caught it, so of course I did too. 

There’s a lot of it in my immediate area since the kids went back to school/uni. Two of the schools I’m close to have been pretty much behaving as though it doesn’t exist, no mask wearing, or distancing on the way to and from school. One other school I see everyone mask wearing and distancing. One has middle class and rural pupils, the other two are a mix of everyone. Seems the middle class/rural people are more worried about spreading it, than boys who group in the middle of the road and give you the finger if you try to drive past them.


----------



## Cully

@Elles , Poor you and your husband, but truly glad you got through it. I hope you don't have any of the lingering 'long covid' symptoms.


----------



## tabelmabel

Sorry to hear you have suffered so badly with it @Elles , and glad you are through the other side.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> It would be nice, but you can't rush these things and that's what they are doing. No long term testing has been done, how long will protection last and what are the long term side effects going to be. Still not sure if I be rushing out to have it done.


Read an interesting article the other day that said that the testing and general procedure to creating and disturbuting the vaccine was actually pretty standard and just how it normally happens. The difference is that usually there is alot of waiting, faffing about and red tape between each stage and this time things are kept moving because of the urgency.
That makes alot of sense to me.

Really struggling at work at the moment. Bed shortages, staff shortages, people arent staying away like they did during the first wave so this one feels worse. We need a vaccine ASAP.....before all the NHS workers go off sick with breakdowns!LOL:Hilarious (sadly Im not a drinker so therefore will be self medicating with pizza after my shifts today!:Shamefullyembarrased).


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> Maybe I misinterpreted your post, but it looked as though you were criticising people like magyarmum for talking about not being able to see their family.  Could be just me though. My son, his wife and my granddaughter were supposed to be coming over from Gibraltar to visit this year or early next, but of course it's cancelled.
> 
> My husband and I have just recovered from Covid. I'm happy, because I thought it would kill one of us, but we both survived it. I was so ill for 3 of the days, couldn't move, could barely breathe and couldn't eat, just drink water, and it did the 'you think it's all over' when it wasn't, but I'm still here and managed to stay out of hospital. One of the symptoms I hadn't read about was the pain. It feels like having cramp, like you get in your feet, I'm sure most people have had that. I thought I had cramp in my ribs, back and hip and tried to stretch and straighten to get rid of it, that was pretty bad. Means I can't get covid again for 4 months at least though, which is nice. Fear of covid isn't good either.





Lurcherlad said:


> I was definitely not criticising people like @Magyarmum or yourself who are isolated from her family. I am too, so understand fully.
> 
> Just a bit tired of hearing those healthy individuals (and at low risk) who live round the corner from family and see them all the time (even during Covid some inside, others outside the guidelines) who keep bellyaching they can't sit round a table for a roast on one particular day of the year.


I'm not quite sure how I became involved. I wasn't moaning just stating a fact. And I certainly didn't think that @Lurcherlad was criticising me or anyone else.

As for not seeing my family even if it were possible for them to come to Hungary (which it isn't at the moment because they'd have to spend 14 days in quarantine) I wouldn't want them to because of the risk of contracting the infection whilst travelling.


----------



## kittih

catz4m8z said:


> Read an interesting article the other day that said that the testing and general procedure to creating and disturbuting the vaccine was actually pretty standard and just how it normally happens. The difference is that usually there is alot of waiting, faffing about and red tape between each stage and this time things are kept moving because of the urgency.
> That makes alot of sense to me.


Unlike most normal vaccine research, development and production, creating a covid vaccination has benefitted from having the world's best researchers concentrating in a solution, sharing findings and having a large amount of money, staffing and other resources thrown at the problem. Additionally it has probably been much easier to recruit volunteers for clinical trials than it normally would and and regulatory approval of the covid vaccines will be being prioritised over non covid medications, medical devices etc. and will be placed in the urgent in-tray to be processed rather than joining the regulatory queue.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

After the ridiculousness of the rules (honestly, read the gov.uk document about having "Households where everybody is not in the same Christmas bubble" which is mentioned in two areas of the same document with no clarity whatsoever!) I now have even more fear that people will use the complexity/confusing nature of the rules almost as an excuse to do whatever they want to. As a consequence I am now even more determined that it will be just me, the husband and the furry boy indoors...if I see anyone else, it will be outdoors.


----------



## kittih

Mrs Funkin said:


> After the ridiculousness of the rules (honestly, read the gov.uk document about having "Households where everybody is not in the same Christmas bubble" which is mentioned in two areas of the same document with no clarity whatsoever!) I now have even more fear that people will use the complexity/confusing nature of the rules almost as an excuse to do whatever they want to. As a consequence I am now even more determined that it will be just me, the husband and the furry boy indoors...if I see anyone else, it will be outdoors.


I think the country is divided into three groups: those that are cautious, have decided to assess their own personal risks and will continue to behave cautiously irrespective of whatever changing rules or laws are decreed. The second is those that will respond to whatever the laws and rules are so if they are allowed to may decide to go to the pub, or meet with friends etc or increase their social bubbles and the third group who ignore any rules or laws either openly or when unobserved.

What has been declared inside or outside the rules does not necessarily correlate with how risky a behaviour is to a person in their own particular circumstance. A gathering of four friends from different households who have all been shielding and had no contact with anyone else would be exposing themselves to a much lower risk even though the gathering is illegal than three large families with school children or university students getting together which is legal.

At this stage I am not sure what is declared the rules or illegal or not will make much difference to what people decide to do over Christmas.

I have pencilled into my diary another lockdown extending from the beginning of February till mid march because I expect there will be another one.


----------



## tabelmabel

I'm in group one of your divisions, kittih. Very cautious! Luckily, my daughter is the same and is going to spend christmas alone in her flat this year. We will try and do a digital christmas.

My son at uni really has to come home and i just heard tonight he will get 2 covid tests, first one being on 1st december. Hopefully, if they both show negative, the risk of him bringing the virus home should be virtually nil?

Im not letting anyone else in


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I'm in group one of your divisions, kittih. Very cautious! Luckily, my daughter is the same and is going to spend christmas alone in her flat this year. We will try and do a digital christmas.
> 
> *My son at uni really has to come home and i just heard tonight he will get 2 covid tests, first one being on 1st december. Hopefully, if they both show negative, the risk of him bringing the virus home should be virtually nil?*
> 
> Im not letting anyone else in


Only if he isolates himself in the process surely?

The students I've seen on tv protesting over the restrictions certainly haven't been.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Only if he isolates himself in the process surely?


Yes - im not too sure of the reason for two tests? Is that how it usually works? He is at Stirling which hasn't had a big outbreak (not a newsworthy one anyway!) and Stirling town itself is a tier 4 area (highest) so everything is closed bar essential shops. There is nowhere open to go to.

It is odd, i think, how they have done things there. He is in a block with 4 floors. Each floor houses one 'flat' Each flat has accomodation for between 5 and 7 students.

But of course lots dropped out at the start so he only has 2 others living in his flat.

I expect the other flats will also be half empty. Rather than isolating them as a block, they have tried to isolate them as individual flats with regular security patrols. In actual fact, my son and his flatmates have worked out how to get into the girls' flat below unseen (same block)

But that has gone on since the start of term so they are just a bigger group than they should be.

There is no learning going on in the uni at all for my son - the whole course is online so he will either be in that block of flats or outside, or in an essential shop.

If he tests positive on first dec, i think the idea is that there is then time to self isolate and be clear in time to come home for christmas.

And, if worst comes to worse and he tests positive on both, he wont be allowed home but neither will his flatmates so he would be in company.

It will be a disaster though in unis as many students going home will go mingling, then bring it all back to campus.

The other daft thing i was thinking about this christmas plan - they say 3 households but no limit on numbers. So that could be 20, 30 folk. High viral load in an enclosed space. Means some folk are going to get it very, very badly.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> If the Oxford vaccine is approved then next month.* A two stage type again, apparently if a weaker version is given first then it alerts the bodies own defences to deal with the virus,* the second inoculation given two two weeks later is stronger and strengthens the defence. If the full vaccine was given in one jab it could overwhelm and kill off some of the bodies natural defences.
> The first people to be inoculate are the elderly in care homes and the staff and presumably front line staff, then those 80 and above and those with critical conditions (don't know whether I come under that or not)


Interesting that that piece of knowledge came by way of a mess up in dosage!


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> The two main vaccines here are mRNA vaccines. No virus live, weakened, or dead in them at all.


The Oxford one isn't even based on this particular Coronavirus so there's no way it could give you Covid-19.

The misinformation being spread is dangerous


----------



## simplysardonic

Well, we are now waiting to see what to do next, daughter's friend who lives with us has had 3 co workers test positive at the care home over the weekend, her test came back negative but yesterday she had a high temperature so she's off work & ordered a new test. As of last night 22 residents apparently have covid


----------



## Lurcherlad

simplysardonic said:


> Well, we are now waiting to see what to do next, daughter's friend who lives with us has had 3 co workers test positive at the care home over the weekend, her test came back negative but yesterday she had a high temperature so she's off work & ordered a new test. As of last night 22 residents apparently have covid


Very worrying


----------



## Happy Paws2

simplysardonic said:


> Well, we are now waiting to see what to do next, daughter's friend who lives with us has had 3 co workers test positive at the care home over the weekend, her test came back negative but yesterday she had a high temperature so she's off work & ordered a new test. As of last night 22 residents apparently have covid


That must be very worrying for you, hope her new test is negative as well.


----------



## Siskin

simplysardonic said:


> Well, we are now waiting to see what to do next, daughter's friend who lives with us has had 3 co workers test positive at the care home over the weekend, her test came back negative but yesterday she had a high temperature so she's off work & ordered a new test. As of last night 22 residents apparently have covid


Oh gosh how worrying for you, I do hope she doesn't have the virus and that you will be ok


----------



## simplysardonic

Thanks ladies  and everyone else stay safe too xx


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Pah. 

I wish the Christmas Bubble hadn't been invented and it stayed the same as we are now...the only thing we were doing for Christmas now won't happen due to moving into Tier two. I know they've clamped down and put most of the country into the tier above to reduce the risk of festivities transmission - but those of us not planning on seeing anyone else over 23rd-27th December are now penalised. 

Double pah.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Mrs Funkin said:


> Pah.
> 
> I wish the Christmas Bubble hadn't been invented and it stayed the same as we are now...the only thing we were doing for Christmas now won't happen due to moving into Tier two. I know they've clamped down and put most of the country into the tier above to reduce the risk of festivities transmission - but those of us not planning on seeing anyone else over 23rd-27th December are now penalised.
> 
> Double pah.


 The tiers and which areas need to go up a tier or move down a tier are due to be revised on the 16th December so fingers crossed your area is placed back into tier 1 at that time.


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> The tiers and which areas need to go up a tier or move down a tier are due to be revised on the 16th December so fingers crossed your area is placed back into tier 1 at that time.


Same here, apparently Gloucestershire was borderline, but was put into tier 2.


----------



## mrs phas

The tiers are suspended 23-27 Dec to allow families/bubbles to mingle

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55076542


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I know @3dogs2cats - but it will be too late then...too close to the event that's meant to be happening. Booo.

@mrs phas it's not people we can see in that time, as they already have their family Christmas bubble.

Never mind. We shall make outdoor plans instead *heads off to find sleeping bag so she can snuggle up outside with them and drink mulled wine*


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Pah.
> 
> I wish the Christmas Bubble hadn't been invented and it stayed the same as we are now...the only thing we were doing for Christmas now won't happen due to moving into Tier two. I know they've clamped down and put most of the country into the tier above to reduce the risk of festivities transmission - but those of us not planning on seeing anyone else over 23rd-27th December are now penalised.
> 
> Double pah.


It's a ridiculous idea. We've been put into tier 3 as we've been dragged down by bloody Stoke.

But apparently for those five days it's all fine to mix with people.

Idiotic.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @MilleD I'd best check my Mum's tier, she's probably lumped in with Stoke too....boooo


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Yep, just checked, she's Tier 3


----------



## Siskin

My son is in tier 3 too, lives in Atherton on the Wigan area


----------



## Lurcherlad

People can meet up over Xmas (if they really must) within guidelines, but they should still be social distancing, etc.

We’re staying in Tier 2 which I’m fine with .... hopefully it will stop those who weren’t following rules in the summer realise this thing is real/serious.


----------



## Siskin

Is anyone watching the program about the Spanish Flu on bbc2 at the moment. It was first shown in 2018, pre covid 19, and oh boy it’s shockingly similar.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> They're still saying those with compromised immune systems may not be able to have it though
> As it's a live vaccine
> I've been a good girl and had my flu jab as per, but that's a 'dead vaccine', didn't even get a sore arm this year


Ive left it too late. I'm not having one as Im having infusions next month and you mustnt have one the month before. You have to book several weeks in advance at my GP.



Siskin said:


> Is anyone watching the program about the Spanish Flu on bbc2 at the moment. It was first shown in 2018, pre covid 19, and oh boy it's shockingly similar.


No  I found it too sad to watch. We're still allowed to call it Spanish flu , then!


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Ive left it too late. I'm not having one as Im having infusions next month and you mustnt have one the month before. You have to book several weeks in advance at my GP.
> 
> No  I found it too sad to watch. We're still allowed to call it Spanish flu , then!


Apparently it should be the American flu (there you are Trump, a flu of your very own). It originated in Kansas on a poultry farm and is a variant of bird flu


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Do you think a face shield would be acceptable to your friend rather then a mask? Perhaps the cats won't be so freaked by that.
> If not perhaps wear a mask round the house for short periods so they get used to seeing it on you


I forgot to practice during the week. I put it on this morning before my friend came and went over to Mazy cat and gave her head bump kisses, it seems like she didn't even notice the mask lol. Later while we were watching our movie Queen Eva came and curled up on my lap and also did not appear to notice the blue thing on my face. We only took them off to eat. I had two windows open and we remained 6 feet apart at all times, at least we tried to be.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve just been checking the figures to see why we are in tier 2. The Cotswolds has a last 7 days figure of 64.5 cases per 100,000 cases, Isle of Wight in tier 1 has 59.3. I know they have to draw the line somewhere, but this seemed somewhat unfair. 
However I can see why the few tier 1 areas are in that category despite only being a few cases lower then the Cotswolds, they can be easily isolated and not overrun by people wanting to be together (Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are the others). We on the other hand, are surrounded by areas that have cases more then twice as high, there would be a likelyhood of the Cotswolds having large numbers of people coming to the pubs from outside the area possibly bringing the virus with them. Galling as it is I’m sure it’s for the best.


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> I've just been checking the figures to see why we are in tier 2. The Cotswolds has a last 7 days figure of 64.5 cases per 100,000 cases, Isle of Wight in tier 1 has 59.3. I know they have to draw the line somewhere, but this seemed somewhat unfair.
> However I can see why the few tier 1 areas are in that category despite only being a few cases lower then the Cotswolds, they can be easily isolated and not overrun by people wanting to be together (Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are the others). We on the other hand, are surrounded by areas that have cases more then twice as high, there would be a likelyhood of the Cotswolds having large numbers of people coming to the pubs from outside the area possibly bringing the virus with them. Galling as it is I'm sure it's for the best.


 We're tier 2 as a county but our district (North Norfolk) has one of the lowest number of cases in the country, we've had big outbreaks at food processing plants, & also Wymondham had a large increase in cases recently.


----------



## Babyshoes

Siskin said:


> I've just been checking the figures to see why we are in tier 2. The Cotswolds has a last 7 days figure of 64.5 cases per 100,000 cases, Isle of Wight in tier 1 has 59.3. I know they have to draw the line somewhere, but this seemed somewhat unfair.
> However I can see why the few tier 1 areas are in that category despite only being a few cases lower then the Cotswolds, they can be easily isolated and not overrun by people wanting to be together (Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are the others). We on the other hand, are surrounded by areas that have cases more then twice as high, there would be a likelyhood of the Cotswolds having large numbers of people coming to the pubs from outside the area possibly bringing the virus with them. Galling as it is I'm sure it's for the best.


I believe it's also about how full the hospitals in the area are, so in theory 2 places with the same rate might be in different tiers, because one has more hospital spaces.


----------



## MilleD

Babyshoes said:


> I believe it's also about how full the hospitals in the area are, so in theory 2 places with the same rate might be in different tiers, because one has more hospital spaces.


Part of our problem is that the Royal Stoke University Hospital also has to cater for some of North Wales residents. They can afford to give them free prescriptions, but don't have enough beds. Go figure.

So they can go to pubs and restaurants whilst filling up our hospital so we can't 

Note, this is all a little tongue in cheek as my other half is Welsh


----------



## Siskin

Babyshoes said:


> I believe it's also about how full the hospitals in the area are, so in theory 2 places with the same rate might be in different tiers, because one has more hospital spaces.


Good point. Our area doesn't have a major hospital we have to use the ones in Cheltenham and Gloucester. Gloucester hospital has been the one designated to take covid patients and to try and keep Cheltenham clear. When I was in the Cheltenham hospital at the end of October there were no covid patients there. Don't know if that's changed.


----------



## catz4m8z

Babyshoes said:


> I believe it's also about how full the hospitals in the area are, so in theory 2 places with the same rate might be in different tiers, because one has more hospital spaces.


I think thats the main reason alot of places are in a higher tier then they think they should be. My hospital is right in the middle of the red zone (we really are lousy with covid!) but it also covers all the surrounding areas too. Basically there are no beds and no staff so highest level lockdown is needed to save lives at the moment.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Apparently it should be the American flu (there you are Trump, a flu of your very own). It originated in Kansas on a poultry farm and is a variant of bird flu


I didnt know that . Ha ha Trump.!


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I didnt know that . Ha ha Trump.!


What was even more interesting was how it became called the Spanish flu. Due to it starting in the latter years of WW1 the governments of the the various allies were reluctant to report much about it in the media as it would be bad for moral. As Spain was a neutral country their journalists reported about the flu in Spain, so it became known as the Spanish flu as everyone thought it was from there.
Another interesting thing that popped up was Australia managed to keep the flu out by stopping anyone coming into the country. They had enough time before the flu would have got to them to appreciate how awful it was and slammed all the doors shut. 
Although Australia has had cases of covid they are very low and anyone coming into Australia at the moment has to go into quarantine at special covid hotels. They are taken from the airport by police and they have to stay put, no trying to sneak off as the hotels are guarded. Pity we couldn't have done the same.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> I've just been checking the figures to see why we are in tier 2. The Cotswolds has a last 7 days figure of 64.5 cases per 100,000 cases, Isle of Wight in tier 1 has 59.3. I know they have to draw the line somewhere, but this seemed somewhat unfair.
> However I can see why the few tier 1 areas are in that category despite only being a few cases lower then the Cotswolds, they can be easily isolated and not overrun by people wanting to be together (Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are the others). We on the other hand, are surrounded by areas that have cases more then twice as high, there would be a likelyhood of the Cotswolds having large numbers of people coming to the pubs from outside the area possibly bringing the virus with them. Galling as it is I'm sure it's for the best.


It's also to do with how many of the over 60s in a particular area are affected.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> Although Australia has had cases of covid they are very low and anyone coming into Australia at the moment has to go into quarantine at special covid hotels. They are taken from the airport by police and they have to stay put, no trying to sneak off as the hotels are guarded. Pity we couldn't have done the same.


China also did the same or allowed you home to your complex but your complex has guards.
Australia is also thinking about bringing in tagging so you can quarantine at home.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> I think thats the main reason alot of places are in a higher tier then they think they should be. My hospital is right in the middle of the red zone (we really are lousy with covid!) but it also covers all the surrounding areas too. Basically there are no beds and no staff so highest level lockdown is needed to save lives at the moment.


One of the problems with getting rid of all the local cottage hospitals


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## Magyarmum

Arny said:


> China also did the same or allowed you home to your complex but your complex has guards.
> Australia is also thinking about bringing in tagging so you can quarantine at home.


We have a similar system in Hungary where about 50,000 people are in compulsory home quarantine. They're issued with a notice to go on their front door or gate informing everyone of the fact and the police make spot checks to make sure the ruling is being obeyed. Until just recently quarantine was for 14 days but has now been reduced to 10.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> One of the problems with getting rid of all the local cottage hospitals


I agree with that. The nearest hospital is in Cirencester and they've been steadily closing bits of it down, not totally sure as exactly what they are able to offer now. There's no A&E, the Cheltenham A&E closes at 8pm so then people have to go to Gloucester which from my house takes three quarters of an hour more if the traffic is bad. Whole situation is stupid. There are three defibrillators in the village, the nearest one to us is up a steep hill, fairly good chance that the person running to get it would conk out in the way there, we're all pretty elderly here


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> I agree with that. The nearest hospital is in Cirencester and they've been steadily closing bits of it down, not totally sure as exactly what they are able to offer now. There's no A&E, the Cheltenham A&E closes at 8pm so then people have to go to Gloucester which from my house takes three quarters of an hour more if the traffic is bad. Whole situation is stupid. There are three defibrillators in the village, the nearest one to us is up a steep hill, fairly good chance that the person running to get it would conk out in the way there, we're all pretty elderly here


My nearest hospital is 50 miles away and because it's a teaching hospital as well, it's on a enormous campus, so easy to get lost. There are several A&E's most of which are open 24/7 and it depends what's wrong with you to which one you go to.


----------



## kimthecat

Im lucky where I live. My local hospital with A and E is 10 minutes drive away . Its one of the main ones for any crashes at Heathrow Airport.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> One of the problems with getting rid of all the local cottage hospitals


They would have been very useful at the moment.



Siskin said:


> I agree with that. The nearest hospital is in Cirencester and they've been steadily closing bits of it down, not totally sure as exactly what they are able to offer now. There's no A&E, the Cheltenham A&E closes at 8pm so then people have to go to Gloucester which from my house takes three quarters of an hour more if the traffic is bad. Whole situation is stupid. There are three defibrillators in the village, the nearest one to us is up a steep hill, fairly good chance that the person running to get it would conk out in the way there, we're all pretty elderly here


We are lucky our nearest hospital Good Hope is only 10 minutes away.


----------



## kittih

An interesting webinar about covid vaccines...


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> What was even more interesting was how it became called the Spanish flu. Due to it starting in the latter years of WW1 the governments of the the various allies were reluctant to report much about it in the media as it would be bad for moral. As Spain was a neutral country their journalists reported about the flu in Spain, so it became known as the Spanish flu as everyone thought it was from there.
> Another interesting thing that popped up was Australia managed to keep the flu out by stopping anyone coming into the country. They had enough time before the flu would have got to them to appreciate how awful it was and slammed all the doors shut.
> Although Australia has had cases of covid they are very low and anyone coming into Australia at the moment has to go into quarantine at special covid hotels. They are taken from the airport by police and they have to stay put, no trying to sneak off as the hotels are guarded. Pity we couldn't have done the same.


 Apparently so; and the Spanish king (Alphonso?) actually caught it and gave it to his PM. Not sure if he survived or not (have read two differing versions).


----------



## lorilu

Just announced, our local school district now closed (distance learning in place) through mid January. When schools opened in October there was a "hybrid" schedule set up. For instance a co-worker's grade school children went to school on Monday and Tuesday only. Remote learning the rest of the week. 

By early November the schools had gone back to remote until "after Thanksgiving". Now it's until mid-January. The reason of course is because the virus has made it's way into the schools, and closing for a few days, constantly tracking, quarantining, super cleaning....after each new infection - just isn't working. So the powers that be have decided the only way is to just keep them home.


----------



## O2.0

I understand why schools choose to close but it breaks my heart. 
We're going to be seeing the ramifications of this for years. A whole generation where the achievement gap is massively widened. The difference between a parent at home who can work with the child and help them through school work, get tutors if needed, has UTD devices, reliable wifi, a quiet, comfortable room to work in vs. none of that. It's staggering to think about.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> I understand why schools choose to close but it breaks my heart.
> We're going to be seeing the ramifications of this for years. A whole generation where the achievement gap is massively widened. The difference between a parent at home who can work with the child and help them through school work, get tutors if needed, has UTD devices, reliable wifi, a quiet, comfortable room to work in vs. none of that. It's staggering to think about.


I agree. My co-worker thankfully does have the ability to work from home, so the little ones don't have to go to day care on the days her husband, who is a city firefighter, works his 24 hour shifts, but how do you work and home-school a kindergartner and a 2nd grader, at the same time? She worries about their education and adjustment to the world, going through all this.

It's difficult not to think ahead...what will the world be like when this generation of grade schoolers are the ones running it? I'll be gone by then, so I'll never know.


----------



## Jaf

Depends on a lot of things though. Some kids do far better with home schooling. Some parents shouldn’t be having kids, never mind teaching them anything.

Perhaps all kids should be held back a year?


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## Magyarmum

My grandson and granddaughter were home schooled until the age of 8 and 10 respectively. The reason being that they were travelling the world on a yacht. My grandson assimilated into school life easily and did extremely well. My granddaughter struggled, partially due to having dyslexia, but nevertheless went on to higher education and at 23 years old you would never know she didn't start her formal education until much later than most children.

My other grandson until the age of 10 was educated in the South African school system before going to France where he had to learn another language and cope with a totally educational system. At 21 he was studying at university in Hong Kong but had to return to France due to Covid He's been accepted at a university in the US but at present has no idea when he'll be able to get over there.


----------



## O2.0

Homeschooling =/= on-line learning. 
Homeschooling is generally done by committed, available parents in an environment that includes travel, socializing, and real-life, hands-on experiences. Homeschooling doesn't require wifi and reliable technology available to the child. 

On-line learning is teacher prepared lessons given on-line. The child may or may not have a parent at home helping and encouraging them. The child is isolated from their peers, isolated from the teacher. 
Here's the reality for a lot of kids doing on-line learning. Mom - oh, you're home for the rest of the semester? Great, you're in charge of your three younger siblings while I go work both my shifts. Make sure they're doing their schoolwork. Also, get your schoolwork turned in. 4 kids in the house, all need to be on wifi, home wifi only allows for 2 devices at a time. Kid A has to skip their zoom lesson so kids B and C can do theirs. Kids B and C miss most of the zoom lesson because there is not a quiet room in the house to themselves. They're all in the living room together and there's feedback from the competing zoom meetings. Kid D goes to log on to their zoom meeting and the device runs out of charge, shuts down, and when re-started they can't find the settings to trouble shoot why the zoom meeting won't work. Kid A is trying to turn in assignments but the files won't load, also doesn't know how to trouble shoot. One of the 2 devices stops working entirely. 

Mom calls school to explain the device isn't working. School says come by between the hours of 9 and 3 we'll give you a new one. Mom can't miss work, so teen has to come get it, bringing all 3 younger siblings who can't be left at home alone. All 4 miss their zoom meetings that day. Get device home, can't figure out how to connect to home wifi. 

So no, homeschooling is not on-line learning.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Homeschooling =/= on-line learning.
> Homeschooling is generally done by committed, available parents in an environment that includes travel, socializing, and real-life, hands-on experiences. Homeschooling doesn't require wifi and reliable technology available to the child.
> 
> On-line learning is teacher prepared lessons given on-line. The child may or may not have a parent at home helping and encouraging them. The child is isolated from their peers, isolated from the teacher.
> Here's the reality for a lot of kids doing on-line learning. Mom - oh, you're home for the rest of the semester? Great, you're in charge of your three younger siblings while I go work both my shifts. Make sure they're doing their schoolwork. Also, get your schoolwork turned in. 4 kids in the house, all need to be on wifi, home wifi only allows for 2 devices at a time. Kid A has to skip their zoom lesson so kids B and C can do theirs. Kids B and C miss most of the zoom lesson because there is not a quiet room in the house to themselves. They're all in the living room together and there's feedback from the competing zoom meetings. Kid D goes to log on to their zoom meeting and the device runs out of charge, shuts down, and when re-started they can't find the settings to trouble shoot why the zoom meeting won't work. Kid A is trying to turn in assignments but the files won't load, also doesn't know how to trouble shoot. One of the 2 devices stops working entirely.
> 
> Mom calls school to explain the device isn't working. School says come by between the hours of 9 and 3 we'll give you a new one. Mom can't miss work, so teen has to come get it, bringing all 3 younger siblings who can't be left at home alone. All 4 miss their zoom meetings that day. Get device home, can't figure out how to connect to home wifi.
> 
> So no, homeschooling is not on-line learning.


There was no on-line learning then, everything was done by correspondence classes with a time lag for finding out how well the student was doing.

Just saying.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh I think so many of our schools are of a poor standard, I doubt there will be much difference at the end of all this.

Perhaps kids with parents who are invested in their education (not just academic) will cope and those that don’t, sadly, will probably be exactly where they would have been on the scale 

I don’t think all future issues can be blamed on Covid ime.


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> There was no on-line learning then, everything was done by correspondence classes with a time lag for finding out how well the student was doing.
> 
> Just saying.


Exactly, it's absolutely not comparable to what we're putting students through now.


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> Perhaps kids with parents who are invested in their education (not just academic) will cope and those that don't, sadly, will probably be exactly where they would have been on the scale


That's what the achievement gap is. The haves and have nots if you will. 
Some kids will be fine no matter what because their parents care enough and have the means to ensure their kids get what they need in the way of education. 
Some kids would not have been fine anyway because of their home situation. Putting them online just intensifies the problems that make it harder for these kids. So the achievement gap widens.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> View attachment 455828


:Facepalm


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh I think so many of our schools are of a poor standard, I doubt there will be much difference at the end of all this.


Far be it from me to stir up a bit of controversy but i can't agree with this.

Before i get started on the education side of things, bear in mind that schools provide the only structure in many children's lives. Where they will be fed, kept warm and adults can keep an eye on their well being.

Closing schools is an absolute crisis for many of our poorest and most deprived children who are then hidden and trapped in desperate situations of neglect if they are not in school and all that goes with that.

Educationally, these very poorest children can sometimes be saved from a cycle of poor choices, crime, prison etc by being kept in school. I havent got the stats for this to hand but there was a very successful collaberation between the Police and schools in Glasgow which started about 20 yrs ago, where it was proven that early educational intervention could make a massive difference on driving down youth crime.

This model is now being copied by other UK areas with high crime rates.

I am very lucky in that my daughter was 12 when we went into lockdown in march and she was already well ahead with some aspects of schooling.

I took the opportunity to read 2 or 3 texts and poems with her and analyse these (something i very much enjoy but she is less keen!)

But, after a couple of months, i realised she was getting nothing on maths (bar lots of weighing and measuring practice for our bakes and me pursuading her that pounds and ounces are by far the more straightforward)

So ended up getting her an online maths tutor. I suspect many parents who had the means to did the same.

Therefore the gap widens.

But my friend, who has a 7 yr old struggling with reading, was not in such a good position as she did not have the specialist skills required to help her young daughter with reading and of course difficulty with reading impacts the entire curriculum.

There will be many parents who want the best for their younger kids but are not teachers. And it's always a little more difficult to teach your own child!

So i think the fall out from this will be very long term and very severe for many of our most vulnerable children.

And also others who are maybe not in that vulnerable category, but need support with the curriculum.

Schools do far more than teach kids to read and write. It is everything from these skills, social skills, structure, routine, warmth, food, pastoral care, guidance. It is massive.


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## Lurcherlad

I agree with what you say but ime what I posted is also true.


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## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> I agree with what you say but ime what I posted is also true.


Lol well if that is your best counter argument, i will be content to let you have the last word!


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Far be it from me to stir up a bit of controversy but i can't agree with this.
> 
> Before i get started on the education side of things, bear in mind that schools provide the only structure in many children's lives. Where they will be fed, kept warm and adults can keep an eye on their well being.
> 
> Closing schools is an absolute crisis for many of our poorest and most deprived children who are then hidden and trapped in desperate situations of neglect if they are not in school and all that goes with that.
> 
> Educationally, these very poorest children can sometimes be saved from a cycle of poor choices, crime, prison etc by being kept in school. I havent got the stats for this to hand but there was a very successful collaberation between the Police and schools in Glasgow which started about 20 yrs ago, where it was proven that early educational intervention could make a massive difference on driving down youth crime.
> 
> This model is now being copied by other UK areas with high crime rates.
> 
> I am very lucky in that my daughter was 12 when we went into lockdown in march and she was already well ahead with some aspects of schooling.
> 
> I took the opportunity to read 2 or 3 texts and poems with her and analyse these (something i very much enjoy but she is less keen!)
> 
> But, after a couple of months, i realised she was getting nothing on maths (bar lots of weighing and measuring practice for our bakes and me pursuading her that pounds and ounces are by far the more straightforward)
> 
> So ended up getting her an online maths tutor. I suspect many parents who had the means to did the same.
> 
> Therefore the gap widens.
> 
> But my friend, who has a 7 yr old struggling with reading, was not in such a good position as she did not have the specialist skills required to help her young daughter with reading and of course difficulty with reading impacts the entire curriculum.
> 
> There will be many parents who want the best for their younger kids but are not teachers. And it's always a little more difficult to teach your own child!
> 
> So i think the fall out from this will be very long term and very severe for many of our most vulnerable children.
> 
> And also others who are maybe not in that vulnerable category, but need support with the curriculum.
> 
> Schools do far more than teach kids to read and write. It is everything from these skills, social skills, structure, routine, warmth, food, pastoral care, guidance. It is massive.


I agree my job takes me in schools across the county. The majority do an amazing job with little funding. I see a high standard of practice.

As you say they provide a structure and safe place to a lot of pupils. Many teachers work excessive hours to get it right for pupils.

As @O2.0 discussed it will be the poorest pupils who miss out through all of this. I see Scotland SNPare pledging free school breakfast and lunch if they win the election. We used to take part in Tesco fair share so a member of staff would drive at 7am to pick up breakfast items for children before school.


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## Elles

We were all kids once, some of us were even poor, abused, neglected kids. School was no joy ride. Other kids know you’re a poor, abused neglected kid and make your life a misery at school too. It still happened when my daughter was at school and they were all given the latest laptops, free breakfast and had anti bullying procedures. Some kids manage despite it, some don’t. Kids still leave school barely able to read and write and with no qualifications. Parents are still prosecuted for their kids truanting. Schools aren’t care bear refuges, run by angels, they’re overwhelmed, understaffed and underfunded institutions of education. Some better than others. Many of the poorest pupils miss out whether they’re in school or not. Expecting schools to look after them isn’t the answer imo.


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## tabelmabel

I do see the angle you're coming from @Elles and i agree with what you say there.
I am coming from a slightly different place i think - firstly as someone who grew up with domestic violence and also as someone who has worked in very early years education (18 months plus) in areas of absolute poverty and deprivation.
Example would be a 5 year old girl, who was 'normal' as regards having no learning disability but who was largely at single word level speech. Some 2 word phrases. Came into the language unit on her 5th birthday, not knowing it was her birthday, holes cut in the toes of her shoes as she had outgrown them. Her language was delayed to such an extent that is was almost 'primative' Purely because she had spent her early years in conditions of neglect. I will never forget that girl. Once she was immersed in language, she was a bright and cheeky girl with a cheeky sense of humour. Absolutely thrived.

This was back in the mid 90s but this poverty is rife when the safety net sectors suffer massive funding cuts and will be happening right now.

That child was hidden until she legally had to come into education at age 5. I cannot recall what social work input there was . These very impoverished kids are hugely disadvantaged by the time they come into school at 5. And initiatives to get to these families right into the early years and bring these children into education have had a measurable impact.

When you have poverty like we are seeing now, domestic violence skyrockets. People least able to cope are now in situations which they have no means of coping with. School is a refuge for many of these kids.

From my own situation, growing up in the 70s, i was not in the desperate situation of the child described above. I had a very academic, educated mother and an intelligent, uneducated and violent father.
He worked at sea and we had a relatively normal and settled life whilst he was away but when he came home, life was far from normal and school was definitely a safe place for me.
Fortunately, i was bright and mature and realised early on that education was the key out of my situation. I mucked up at high school first time round but, once i realised my mum was ill and not going to be around much longer, i got knuckled down and got a place at uni, hundreds of miles from my dad and out of the situation.

My brother, 2 yrs younger and not as able, was not as fortunate. He fell into a life of crime and (if he is still alive, he was last year) is homeless and living in a tent.

I do take your point that kids do leave school still barely able to read and write and this can stem from coming from backgrounds of low literacy, poor language development in the early years and speech, language and dyslexic disorders than go undetected and untreated for far too long because it is difficult to get these children into the system early enough.

By the time they come into formal education at 4 or 5, they are miles behind already.

There has been massive investment in early years education and free nursery places to address this but of course all these areas are seeing huge cuts.

Poverty ,combined with lack of education, really is a killer as regards life chances. And then the cycle of poverty, kids born to kids, poor housing, poor nutrition, poor life chances, domestic abuse - it all cycles round and round.

I was lucky enough to go and listen to john carnochan speak about the work he did in Glasgow - very inspirational. He realised that the key to cracking crime lies in getting in to kids at the earliest years and breaking that cycle. Education!

I attach a link to what the project was about for anyone interested.

https://www.holyrood.com/inside-pol...-fixed-interview-with-john-carnochan_8705.htm

Eta - that link isn't a link to what the project was about as such but does give an overview of his work and how he set about solving the crime problem by piecing together the issues in folks' lives that lead them down the paths they choose and working with them. This led to a lot of early years initiatives in Scotland.


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## simplysardonic

As of last night we are in covid jail for a fortnight, except for daughter's friend's high temperature & her feeling mildly unwell we have no symptoms so far beyond us having snotty colds. 

OH has got a bit of a chest, which could be due to the recent drop in temperature & frosts, but he's ordered his own test so we can find out for definite.


----------



## rona

simplysardonic said:


> As of last night we are in covid jail for a fortnight, except for daughter's friend's high temperature & her feeling mildly unwell we have no symptoms so far beyond us having snotty colds.
> 
> OH has got a bit of a chest, which could be due to the recent drop in temperature & frosts, but he's ordered his own test so we can find out for definite.


Hope it's just a scare. Good luck


----------



## simplysardonic

rona said:


> Hope it's just a scare. Good luck


Thankyou 

ETA: Forgot to mention in my post that her test came back positive last night, which is why we are all isolating now.


----------



## Happy Paws2

simplysardonic said:


> Forgot to mention in my post that her test came back positive last night, which is why we are all isolating now.


I'm so sorry to hear that, hope she'll be OK and you All keep safe, must be a worry for you. X


----------



## lorilu

simplysardonic said:


> As of last night we are in covid jail for a fortnight, except for daughter's friend's high temperature & her feeling mildly unwell we have no symptoms so far beyond us having snotty colds.
> 
> OH has got a bit of a chest, which could be due to the recent drop in temperature & frosts, but he's ordered his own test so we can find out for definite.


All paws crossed for you and yours xx


----------



## Elles

Hope you’re all ok.


----------



## Guest

The Pfizer & Biontech Covid-19 vaccine has been approved in the UK and the UK is the first country in the world to approve a covid-19 vaccine. They are rolling it out from early next week.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-approves-use-of-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine-12148786

They are planning to vaccinate hospital staff first.


----------



## Guest

There is a question I have had for ages now, what category do unpaid carers (friends, family members) fit in that care for highly vulnerable people (who don't fit in the age brackets of 50 to 70) in their homes? Also how will they get the vaccine to those that a highly vulnerable and housebound? Yes I know someone in this situation and the highly vulnerable person that this person looks after has letters from the Government about shielding in the first lockdown and recently a new letter from the Government about the second lockdown.


----------



## Siskin

rawpawsrus said:


> There is a question I have had for ages now, what category do unpaid carers (friends, family members) fit in that care for highly vulnerable people (who don't fit in the age brackets of 50 to 70) in their homes? Also how will they get the vaccine to those that a highly vulnerable and housebound? Yes I know someone in this situation and the highly vulnerable person that this person looks after has letters from the Government about shielding in the first lockdown and recently a new letter from the Government about the second lockdown.


Similar position although we are in the 50 to 70 age group. I'm 69 and highly vulnerable, had the letters etc etc and husband is three years older. The way the roll out is being talked about at the moment it would be likely I would be able to have the vaccine earlier then he would and I've been wondering if he should have it at the same time.

On a second note. I've recently had an email about still shielding and also about offering vitamin D and I've taken up the offer? Anyone else had this?


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Similar position although we are in the 50 to 70 age group. I'm 69 and highly vulnerable, had the letters etc etc and husband is three years older. The way the roll out is being talked about at the moment it would be likely I would be able to have the vaccine earlier then he would and I've been wondering if he should have it at the same time.
> 
> On a second note. I've recently had an email about still shielding and also about offering vitamin D and I've taken up the offer? Anyone else had this?


As I don't live in the UK, I obviously haven't received the email, but I have been taking vitamin D for a couple of months now. Also a good multivitamin as well as vitamin C.


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> Similar position although we are in the 50 to 70 age group. I'm 69 and highly vulnerable, had the letters etc etc and husband is three years older. The way the roll out is being talked about at the moment it would be likely I would be able to have the vaccine earlier then he would and I've been wondering if he should have it at the same time.
> 
> On a second note. I've recently had an email about still shielding and also about offering vitamin D and I've taken up the offer? Anyone else had this?


Yes, my OH's had one for vit D supplements, but he said he had one yesterday about coming out of shielding today.

Not that we will be going anywhere except the garden until late next week!


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> As I don't live in the UK, I obviously haven't received the email, but I have been taking vitamin D for a couple of months now. Also a good multivitamin as well as vitamin C.


I've been taking them as well as I'm so fair skinned that I avoid the sun and don't expose myself much to it as I burn badly. I don't know whether the ones that will be supplied are a stronger version then the over the counter type


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I've been taking them as well as I'm so fair skinned that I avoid the sun and don't expose myself much to it as I burn badly. I don't know whether the ones that will be supplied are a stronger version then the over the counter type


It depends where you get them from.

I have some 'prescription' ones that are 800IU, but that's a maintenance dose, I think the original loading dose I was given was 4000IU.

The normal ones from the shops, say Holland and Barrett are (I think) around 400IU.

But you can get ones that far exceed this - this is the one I take normally which is 2500IU.

https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/vitamin-d3-softgels/10530530.html


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> It depends where you get them from.
> 
> I have some 'prescription' ones that are 800IU, but that's a maintenance dose, I think the original loading dose I was given was 4000IU.
> 
> The normal ones from the shops, say Holland and Barrett are (I think) around 400IU.
> 
> But you can get ones that far exceed this - this is the one I take normally which is 2500IU.
> 
> https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/vitamin-d3-softgels/10530530.html


Thank you, that's really interesting


----------



## mrs phas

Matt has had his letter and is quite happy for the gov to pay for his vit d, instead of it coming out of his pocket
I have high dose vit d on prescription anyway (free as I'm diabetic) as I have extreme photosensitivity, due to the lupus, I have to use factor 50 total sunblock, even on horrible grey days


----------



## Jaf

Please be careful with vitamin D. It can be dangerous at too high a dose and cause Calcium to go too high.


----------



## Bisbow

mrs phas said:


> Matt has had his letter and is quite happy for the gov to pay for his vit d, instead of it coming out of his pocket
> I have high dose vit d on prescription anyway (free as I'm diabetic) as I have extreme photosensitivity, due to the lupus, I have to use factor 50 total sunblock, even on horrible grey days


I have also had the letter about vit d and applied for it but won't get it till January


----------



## Magyarmum

For anyone living in Cornwall ...

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/c...rlUFZvneNTN9bgYj8YXvsH24YtQtK5kr7moqML3fYJll4

*Cornwall to have three mass Covid vaccination sites with main hub at Treliske*


----------



## catz4m8z

rawpawsrus said:


> They are planning to vaccinate hospital staff first.


Not gonna lie I am kinda relieved about that. Work is really getting to me at the moment, super stressful and depressing (esp when you find yourself admitting colleagues). I know Ive already had covid but my ward has just swapped over to being a covid positive one and I have to admit I am slightly terrified of catching it again.:Shy Feels like we will all need therapy when this is finally over!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## mrs phas

Why is it my heart always wants to say 
'I can't believe it,'
when I read something like this

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/visited-bluewaters-24-hour-primark-4759781

When my head says 
'what else do you expect?'

Is buying a £3 t shirt really worth endangering yourself?


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Why is it my heart always wants to say
> 'I can't believe it,'
> when I read something like this
> 
> https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/visited-bluewaters-24-hour-primark-4759781
> 
> When my head says
> 'what else do you expect?'
> 
> Is buying a £3 t shirt really worth endangering yourself?


It was the two girls commenting that they had come for the experience and it's exciting that made me roll my eyes


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sadly, I’m not surprised at all


----------



## daveos

Hd a work colleague off sick Wednesday came back today says he has a cold runny nose work told him to phone 119 which he did they said as he shows no main symptoms he cannot get a test its a bit worrying as I live with vulnerable people do you guys think this sounds ok?


----------



## Calvine

@tabelmabel


Lurcherlad said:


> I agree with what you say but ime what I posted is also true.


 I think there was a big difference also in how the schools/teaching staff themselves set about helping the children in this unprecedented situation. One school near me had staff who impressed the parents/children so much with the extra care they took while they were not in school that they clubbed together and bought huge banners saying ''Thank You XXXX School Staff . . . You Are Amazing''.
BUT . . . took some stuff over to a friend of mine working from home twice while her daughter (14 years old) was home from school (not the school mentioned above). On both occasions the girl was in bed at midday . . . according to mother, this was how she spent most of her days, the school showing little or no interest in what they did. I do recall reading that one well-respected headteacher (she had brought the school out of special measures I believe) was suspended for saying that a lot of teachers were spending their days watching Netflix.


----------



## stuaz

daveos said:


> Hd a work colleague off sick Wednesday came back today says he has a cold runny nose work told him to phone 119 which he did they said as he shows no main symptoms he cannot get a test its a bit worrying as I live with vulnerable people do you guys think this sounds ok?


a runny nose is not a symptom of COVID-19.

not sure what job you do but if you are still concerned then try and maintain distance from that colleague, which tbh you should be doing anyway where possible.


----------



## tabelmabel

@Calvine - i understand the points that you and elles make. I am looking at the schools situation from a much wider perspective though. In fact, this came up didnt it as a news item the other evening with the 2 pastor vicars in tears over the poverty and its effects in this pandemic.

The point i was trying to make is that i am glad they are doing everything they can to keep schools open throughout this pandemic because, when kids are out of education, they are out of sight of safety-net services.

It is often teachers that notice safe guarding concerns, notice when kids come into school hungry, or are unkempt, dirty, with erratic attendance.

When schools are closed these vulnerable kids are not coming into contact with anyone that can help.

Im not sure what you are trying to say about the 14yr old getting up at midday - is that not another argument in support of keeping schools open and getting kids into school?

I see your bit about teachers watching netflix and, believe me, i have had battles of my own with teachers (one of my kids is learning disabled and it is hard work being the parent of a disabled child in mainstream school)

But, i think that kids need to be in school for many, many reasons. And teachers and schools do far more than just teach. They are significant adults in the lives of children.

I am sticking to my argument that the fall out of this disruption to kids' education will be massive and ripple through years and generations to come.

Not for kids from good homes with high literacy levels, working parents and stability. Those kids will be fine.

But for the many thousands of kids currently in homes where life is chaotic, no money, no food, domestic violence. This kind of poverty is rife throughout the UK right now.

And then still others who arent right down at the bottom of society but who still struggle because the family situation was doing just ok before this, but now unemployment has hit the family, stress levels are up, and everyone is on top of each other because the places that are usually open where stressed parents can get a bit of a break are all closed.

I am just seeing the whole picture on a massive scale - and thinking about education from the earliest years - socio economic issues; everything.

I can just see how schools fit into this huge network of areas which they interlink to and this is like a set of dominoes tumbling into each other for a lot of families.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> is that not another argument in support of keeping schools open


Yes: I am obviously in agreement with children spending as much time in school as safely possible. I didn't in any way suggest otherwise. I just said that different schools have offered vastly different levels of support to children who are at home, nothing more than that.


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes, we are agreed on that point @Calvine. But i think Lurcherlad's point was that some schools are of such a poor standard that it won't make any difference whether the kids' education is disrupted there or not. And that future problems from disruption to schooling in areas where these poor standard schools are cannot be blamed on covid.

And with your quoting of lurcherlad, i thought you were agreeing with what she says. In fact, i had better quote her myself



Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh I think so many of our schools are of a poor standard, I doubt there will be much difference at the end of all this.


You took a quote of lurcherlad's which referenced this and this is what i dont agree with.

Many 'poor standard' schools are in areas where the catchment is socially and economically disadvantaged. They have a larger proportion of kids that cannot get on in education due to complicating factors brought in from their complex and difficult home lives. That can make them tricky to manage in education. Schools in these areas struggle to attract and retain the best teaching staff.

Education, at best, is not going to turn these kids around and get them out into the world with good grades and able citizens college and work-ready. Of course not.

But it does make a difference. For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier threads.

To dismiss the important work that schools do, as lurcherlad has, is too narrow a viewpoint. You need to consider where education and schools sit in the whole sociological picture.

To say some schools are of a poor standard is too broad, blunt and sweeping. To make a dismissive statement like that does not consider the knock on effects of kids being out of 'poor standard' schools.

And what even is a 'poor standard' school? One that is 'failing' as measured by the number of exam passes?

Is that it?

I think there will be people that read this and get what im saying straightaway. And others just won't.

Education is so much more that schools and exam results. Even 'poor standard' schools work hard to keep older kids off the streets and out of delinquency and crime.

And younger ones are brought into a supportive structure away from chaotic home lives.

And, every now and again, some of these kids manage to stay in school long enough to come in contact with that truly inspirational teacher that sets them down a better path. Inspirational teachers can be found even in 'poor standard' schools.

Eta - yes, on the surface, it would appear that some schools have offered much more support than others throughout this pandemic, and during lockdown, but unless you are a teacher working inside these schools, i dont think we can comment on that really.

There are too many factors affecting how schools perform, from school budgets, and the experience of staff in an individual school, to the school catchment area. Head teachers and senior leadership teams are very influential as to how a school manages overall.

It's very easy to be critical looking in from the outside (and im not a teacher) but, unless you are actually working within schools, and fully comprehend all the factors that contribute to the running of a school, i would hold off negative criticism.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> Yes, we are agreed on that point @Calvine. But i think Lurcherlad's point was that some schools are of such a poor standard that it won't make any difference whether the kids' education is disrupted there or not. And that future problems from disruption to schooling in areas where these poor standard schools are cannot be blamed on covid.
> 
> And with your quoting of lurcherlad, i thought you were agreeing with what she says. In fact, i had better quote her myself
> 
> You took a quote of lurcherlad's which referenced this and this is what i dont agree with.
> 
> Many 'poor standard' schools are in areas where the catchment is socially and economically disadvantaged. They have a larger proportion of kids that cannot get on in education due to complicating factors brought in from their complex and difficult home lives. That can make them tricky to manage in education. Schools in these areas struggle to attract and retain the best teaching staff.
> 
> Education, at best, is not going to turn these kids around and get them out into the world with good grades and able citizens college and work-ready. Of course not.
> 
> But it does make a difference. For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier threads.
> 
> To dismiss the important work that schools do, as lurcherlad has, is too narrow a viewpoint. You need to consider where education and schools sit in the whole sociological picture.
> 
> To say some schools are of a poor standard is too broad, blunt and sweeping. To make a dismissive statement like that does not consider the knock on effects of kids being out of 'poor standard' schools.
> 
> And what even is a 'poor standard' school? One that is 'failing' as measured by the number of exam passes?
> 
> Is that it?
> 
> I think there will be people that read this and get what im saying straightaway. And others just won't.
> 
> Education is so much more that schools and exam results. Even 'poor standard' schools work hard to keep older kids off the streets and out of delinquency and crime.
> 
> And younger ones are brought into a supportive structure away from chaotic home lives.
> 
> And, every now and again, some of these kids manage to stay in school long enough to come in contact with that truly inspirational teacher that sets them down a better path. Inspirational teachers can be found even in 'poor standard' schools.
> 
> Eta - yes, on the surface, it would appear that some schools have offered much more support than others throughout this pandemic, and during lockdown, but unless you are a teacher working inside these schools, i dont think we can comment on that really.
> 
> There are too many factors affecting how schools perform, from school budgets, and the experience of staff in an individual school, to the school catchment area. Head teachers and senior leadership teams are very influential as to how a school manages overall.
> 
> It's very easy to be critical looking in from the outside (and im not a teacher) but, unless you are actually working within schools, and fully comprehend all the factors that contribute to the running of a school, i would hold off negative criticism.


Just to make it clear, I wasn't dismissing all the good work that schools do and yes, obviously, it's a much more complicated issue and covid will exacerbate the problems that already existed.

But it can't be held solely responsible for those that fail (which was the point I was actually trying to make).

The fact remains (imo), many of our kids are being failed by education and more sadly, their parents.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Just to make it clear, I wasn't dismissing all the good work that schools do and yes, obviously, it's a much more complicated issue and covid will exacerbate the problems that already existed.


Yes. This issue needs a separate thread of its own really. I do understand where you are coming from but education, sociology and kids - these are areas that are going to trigger me to rant on im afraid. I could go on for pages and pages (i think you might have realised that a couple of pages ago)

But calvine did pick up the bait again and it just caused me to go off on one again

Im not even a teacher!! (never have been) I dont work in schools any more. I will leave any more revivals of this schools talk to the teachers on the forum. I think there are quite a few


----------



## O2.0

A CNN article about the effect of school closures on our children. 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/politics/what-matters-december-1/index.html

I found the part about covid spread in schools very interesting. Schools staying open is not the danger once anticipated. 
It's other gatherings, weddings, funerals, church services, bars, large family gatherings... Not schools.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Yes, we are agreed on that point @Calvine. But i think Lurcherlad's point was that some schools are of such a poor standard that it won't make any difference whether the kids' education is disrupted there or not. And that future problems from disruption to schooling in areas where these poor standard schools are cannot be blamed on covid.
> 
> And with your quoting of lurcherlad, i thought you were agreeing with what she says. In fact, i had better quote her myself
> 
> You took a quote of lurcherlad's which referenced this and this is what i dont agree with.
> 
> Many 'poor standard' schools are in areas where the catchment is socially and economically disadvantaged. They have a larger proportion of kids that cannot get on in education due to complicating factors brought in from their complex and difficult home lives. That can make them tricky to manage in education. Schools in these areas struggle to attract and retain the best teaching staff.
> 
> Education, at best, is not going to turn these kids around and get them out into the world with good grades and able citizens college and work-ready. Of course not.
> 
> But it does make a difference. For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier threads.
> 
> To dismiss the important work that schools do, as lurcherlad has, is too narrow a viewpoint. You need to consider where education and schools sit in the whole sociological picture.
> 
> To say some schools are of a poor standard is too broad, blunt and sweeping. To make a dismissive statement like that does not consider the knock on effects of kids being out of 'poor standard' schools.
> 
> And what even is a 'poor standard' school? One that is 'failing' as measured by the number of exam passes?
> 
> Is that it?
> 
> I think there will be people that read this and get what im saying straightaway. And others just won't.
> 
> Education is so much more that schools and exam results. Even 'poor standard' schools work hard to keep older kids off the streets and out of delinquency and crime.
> 
> And younger ones are brought into a supportive structure away from chaotic home lives.
> 
> And, every now and again, some of these kids manage to stay in school long enough to come in contact with that truly inspirational teacher that sets them down a better path. Inspirational teachers can be found even in 'poor standard' schools.
> 
> Eta - yes, on the surface, it would appear that some schools have offered much more support than others throughout this pandemic, and during lockdown, but unless you are a teacher working inside these schools, i dont think we can comment on that really.
> 
> There are too many factors affecting how schools perform, from school budgets, and the experience of staff in an individual school, to the school catchment area. Head teachers and senior leadership teams are very influential as to how a school manages overall.
> 
> It's very easy to be critical looking in from the outside (and im not a teacher) but, unless you are actually working within schools, and fully comprehend all the factors that contribute to the running of a school, i would hold off negative criticism.


Said really well thank you @tabelmabel. Just to add schools were open during lockdown! Some special schools at full capacity. So teachers had to go in and also get stuff online without the resources. Teachers were conducting home visits on vulnerable children to check they were ok. SENCOs has to complete masses of paperwork to evidence they were supporting pupils with EHCPs. All of this whilst binging Netflix.

Private schools had the resources to go online also pupils had access to a laptop.

Surely if a pupil is in bed until mid day this is a parenting issue. Even if I had been sent no work my mum would have had me up revising from one of those revision books you can buy.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Said really well thank you @tabelmabel. Just to add schools were open during lockdown! Some special schools at full capacity. So teachers had to go in and also get stuff online without the resources. Teachers were conducting home visits on vulnerable children to check they were ok. SENCOs has to complete masses of paperwork to evidence they were supporting pupils with EHCPs. All of this whilst binging Netflix.
> 
> Private schools had the resources to go online also pupils had access to a laptop.
> 
> Surely if a pupil is in bed until mid day this is a parenting issue. Even if I had been sent no work my mum would have had me up revising from one of those revision books you can buy.


Indeed.

A child's education is not the sole responsibility of schools.


----------



## Elles

We’re talking about starved, neglected, abused children as though a few hours a day in school is the answer. They still have to go home, or to an abusive environment (11 year olds being groomed were at school and often the parents asked for help) there’s the weekends and the holidays.  Children will be groomed into gangs, sexual abuse and prostitution, bullying, drug taking, self harm and various other kinds of ills and have been whether the schools are open or not. Some of it is inside the school, or just outside the gate. The covid epidemic has highlighted domestic abuse and child abuse/neglect and how bloody rife it is.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> We're talking about starved, neglected, abused children as though a few hours a day in school is the answer.


I don't read it as anyone saying schools are the answer, but rather that for many kids, school is an important safe-guard, a respite. It helps. And when you take away that help, it hurts.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> I don't read it as anyone saying schools are the answer, but rather that for many kids, school is an important safe-guard, a respite. It helps. And when you take away that help, it hurts.


Exactly I'm not saying schools are perfect just that for some they can make a difference and where possible in this pandemic should be open.


----------



## tabelmabel

Elles said:


> New We're talking about starved, neglected, abused children as though a few hours a day in school is the answer.


No. You are completely missing my point. In fact, anyone who isnt getting it by now just isnt going to get it.

I am just repeating myself now. To understand what im saying, please try to understand how schools fit in with all the support services that are involved with children and families from pre-birth.

They all work together. From social work, health visitors, pre school home visiting, nurseries, schools, police, specialist teachers. They all fit together.

When they are working well, they provide education and support for all of our children. It isnt just for a few hours a day whilst they are at school. They try to help families from the earliest days of a child's life.

Support services try to get to children in their earliest years (and it isnt just to the most vulnerable children - look at all the projects aimed at getting children into libraries and free books given to ALL pre-schoolers) dont know if there is anything like this in England, but in Scotland we have the Book Start project.

There is a huge network of services all working together to try to reach all children.

Schools dont just close at home time and that's it. They refer kids onto other agencies. They are key players in multi agency decisions that affect children's lives.

I really am going to step away from this now because i cannot find any more words to get over what i am trying to say any more clearly.

More kids will fall through the cracks due to this pandemic. Education is vitally important for life chances. Schools are a part of a child's holistic education. They are not the whole part. But they do matter.

Over and out on this one:Banghead


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> But calvine did pick up the bait again


 What?


----------



## tabelmabel

Calvine said:


> What?


Arrrrghh! I have just overed and outed on this!!

What i meant, @Calvine, was that i thought this schools issue had been left to lie a couple of pages back. The convo had taken a different turn.

And then you quoted me . .

I meant it was me that picked up the bait you threw out for me


----------



## rona

Made my first trip out since March that involved other people. 
Saw that my normal (huge) pool only had 9 people booked, so thought I'd go and suss it out 
One woman tried to lean into me to talk but luckily I had a massive expanse of water to go under and escape 

Scary 

Still too many not taking care


----------



## Jesthar

tabelmabel said:


> No. You are completely missing my point. In fact, anyone who isnt getting it by now just isnt going to get it.
> 
> I am just repeating myself now. To understand what im saying, please try to understand how schools fit in with all the support services that are involved with children and families from pre-birth.
> 
> They all work together. From social work, health visitors, pre school home visiting, nurseries, schools, police, specialist teachers. They all fit together.
> 
> When they are working well, they provide education and support for all of our children. It isnt just for a few hours a day whilst they are at school. They try to help families from the earliest days of a child's life.
> 
> Support services try to get to children in their earliest years (and it isnt just to the most vulnerable children - look at all the projects aimed at getting children into libraries and free books given to ALL pre-schoolers) dont know if there is anything like this in England, but in Scotland we have the Book Start project.
> 
> There is a huge network of services all working together to try to reach all children.
> 
> Schools dont just close at home time and that's it. They refer kids onto other agencies. They are key players in multi agency decisions that affect children's lives.


One of my relatives is a social paediatrician. I've had this exact conversation with them a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure they would agree with every word you say.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> I don't read it as anyone saying schools are the answer, but rather that for many kids, school is an important safe-guard, a respite. It helps. And when you take away that help, it hurts.


I'm saying it shouldn't be. There clearly needs to be more resources for victims of dv and abuse and we shouldn't be relying on schools. What if this infection affected children worse than adults, what if the next one does? Campaigning for schools to be open is imo missing the point.


----------



## Siskin

And to completely change the subject and to inject (get it ha ha) some light relief


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> And to completely change the subject and to inject (get it ha ha) some light relief


That is brilliant


----------



## tabelmabel

Fantastic, siskin! Just what this thread needed


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> And to completely change the subject and to inject (get it ha ha) some light relief


Haha! This one is really doing the rounds on WhatsApp

Another one for light relief


----------



## Siskin

SbanR said:


> Haha! This one is really doing the rounds on WhatsApp
> 
> Another one for light relief
> View attachment 456419


I've just been sent that one from a neighbour, there's some funny quick witted people about isn't there. We can at least have a giggle even at the worst times


----------



## catz4m8z

I dont know how to post stuff but anybody who wants a laugh look up 'Match Made in Hell' on Youtube. Im not usually a fan of adverts but this one is so dark and depressingly funny!


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> I dont know how to post stuff but anybody who wants a laugh look up 'Match Made in Hell' on Youtube. Im not usually a fan of adverts but this one is so dark and depressingly funny!


Brilliant


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Ooooh, I get to do a self test for Covid twice a week and report the results. More about research I think and if I get a positive, then I have to do a proper test. Plus I get to use solutions and a mini test tube


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ooooh, I get to do a self test for Covid twice a week and report the results. More about research I think and if I get a positive, then I have to do a proper test. Plus I get to use solutions and a mini test tube


Let's hope you stay clear.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well, considering how many patients I see each day, I'm pretty impressed I'm clear so far (and so is everyone in my department, which is amazing really)


----------



## catz4m8z

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, considering how many patients I see each day, I'm pretty impressed I'm clear so far (and so is everyone in my department, which is amazing really)


My best friend is currently all alone in her department as everybody else tested positive and is isolating!:Wideyed
I figure she either has a superhuman immune system or else she has already had it and just didnt notice!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Bisbow

Did you see the photo of all those silly people in Regent Street

They will all scream blue murder when the next lockdown is announced or worse at their relatives funeral


----------



## Guest

@Bisbow you mean these pictures.
Absolutely terrible if you ask me.


----------



## Siskin

I saw these this morning, not that many wearing masks. I can almost hear the whining and moaning when we have lockdown 3 in January.


----------



## Guest

There was this in the newspaper yesterday:-

*Hundreds of young people try to enter Harrods in chaotic scenes as police make four arrests for affray and Covid rule breaches as huge crowds gather in Covent Garden*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-chaotic-scenes-police-make-four-arrests.html


----------



## Cully

What ARE people thinking of?? So many of them are going to wish they'd stayed at home. They can't say they weren't warned.
I've been doing my bit by not going anywhere for weeks now, especially since cases are increasing in Kent. Scenes like these make my blood boil.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I know they call Christmas time the silly season but really what is wrong with people. 

Even if I was capable of going out I wouldn't be going anywhere near any crowded shopping centers.


----------



## Arny

They're saving the economy.


----------



## Blackadder

Arny said:


> They're saving the economy.


I don't know if that was a "tongue in cheek" remark but I liked it anyway because it's true!

We are at the stage where the so called cure is more damaging than the disease


----------



## Bisbow

Not much point in saving the economy if there is no one left to worry about it


----------



## Happy Paws2

I think next year we are really going to suffer when everything catches up with us.


----------



## Arny

Blackadder said:


> I don't know if that was a "tongue in cheek" remark but I liked it anyway because it's true!
> 
> We are at the stage where the so called cure is more damaging than the disease


I was being serious.
I agree with you. There's got to be some balance.



Bisbow said:


> Not much point in saving the economy if there is no one left to worry about i


As incredibly sad this has been on an individual level it hasn't made even the smallest dent in the general population.


----------



## Blackadder

Bisbow said:


> Not much point in saving the economy if there is no one left to worry about it


I'm not sure what you mean? Covid deaths are somewhere around 1% or less of the reported cases, the vast majority of those are from the elderly or those with other health conditions. Most people will have mild symptoms or none at all... in fact there will be some posting on this thread who have contracted the virus & don't even know it!

The overwhelming majority of us will live through this to be faced with what?


----------



## Calvine

Bisbow said:


> Did you see the photo of all those silly people in Regent Street
> 
> They will all scream blue murder when the next lockdown is announced or worse at their relatives funeral


 The Boxing Day sales will be something to see. People were sleeping out overnight to get the newest (think it was) Playstation two weeks ago. Some had beds with them!


----------



## O2.0

Bisbow said:


> Not much point in saving the economy if there is no one left to worry about it


Except Covid19 has a very high survival rate so even if all the people out shopping and not wearing masks now get sick, the odds are that they will only get mildly sick and be fully recovered quickly. And then probably use that as more fodder for the "see it's not that big of a deal" argument. Just like our president did 

I'm not saying Covid isn't a big deal or that the deaths aren't devastating, they are. And we have no idea what the long-term effects could be. But it's also inaccurate to say that there won't be anyone left.

We have vulnerable people who need to be protected, and we should do that. 
There are excellent reasons to wear your mask - properly, wash your hands, social distance, and avoid large gatherings. But with as many people about right now who have been sick and recovered with zero complications, hyperbole will just get people tuning out. And we really need people to not tune out, to wear their masks and remain cautious.


----------



## Guest

There is going to be alot of debt to pay back from all the spending and borrowing (the Chancellor has been doing) after we get through this.

Even when everyone has been vaccinated here in the UK it is going to take time before things get back to some kind of normality as Covid-19 isn't going away and we don't know yet if we will need vaccinating once a year like the flu vaccine.


----------



## O2.0

Blackadder said:


> Covid deaths are somewhere around 1% or less of the reported cases, the vast majority of those are from the elderly or those with other health conditions. Most people will have mild symptoms or none at all...


I think even lower than that now. In the US, infections are continuing to rise, but the death rate is not.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89750


----------



## Bisbow

Arny said:


> I was being serious.
> I agree with you. There's got to be some balance.
> 
> As incredibly sad this has been on an individual level it hasn't made even the smallest dent in the general population.


Vaccine or no vaccine this virus has not finished with us yet


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> Even when everyone has been vaccinated here in the UK it is going to take time before things get back to some kind of normality as Covid-19 isn't going away and we don't know yet if we will need vaccinating once a year like the flu vaccine.


If it's anything like our normal yearly flu which mutates every year, it might never be completely controlled.


----------



## Guest

Christmas Market Shut Down After Hundreds of Shoppers Appear To Break Social Distancing Rules

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ear-to-break-social-distancing-rules-12153090


----------



## HarlequinCat

Happy Paws2 said:


> If it's anything like our normal yearly flu which mutates every year, it might never be completely controlled.


They are saying that the vaccine once you've had it will protect you for approx 6 months. Which is as good as a year because its less virulent in warmer weather .

They will probably have to come up with a new one each year like they do with the flu to protect the most vulnerable


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> If it's anything like our normal yearly flu which mutates every year, it might never be completely controlled.


Part of the reason we have to have a vaccine every year is because there are different strains of the virus and scientists predict which they think is going to cause the most problems in any year. You get vaccinated against those strains, so theoretically you could be vaccinated and catch a strain you are not inoculated against.

I think Covid-19 is just one virus rather than different strains isn't it? So whilst it may mutate (the different flu strains can too - you are right), it's still the same virus.

At least I think that's the case.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Bisbow said:


> Not much point in saving the economy if there is no one left to worry about it


True.

Will they feel differently when they or someone they love gets the virus, needs to be admitted to hospital but it's at full capacity?

Hmmm, maybe shopping in a crowd wasn't worth the risk then?

We went to walk at a country house this morning. Parking was tricky as there was also an Xmas fair on which we weren't expecting, but we were able to hike round the vast acreage whilst keeping well away from the crowds attending.

Had we not been able to do so, we would have bailed and gone elsewhere.

We drove afterwards to a nearby cafe for al fresco refreshment, so still supporting the economy, but not taking any risks.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Arny said:


> I was being serious.
> I agree with you. There's got to be some balance.
> 
> As incredibly sad this has been on an individual level it hasn't made even the smallest dent in the general population.


Yet, maybe.

I also think peoples' attitude to the risk of the virus depends upon where they sit on the scale of vulnerability - which is, of course, human nature.

I have been accused of being over cautious but as my husband had cancer a year ago, followed by chemo as we entered Lockdown (trashing his immune system) and blood clots on the lungs as a consequence, I'm not surprised quite frankly.

Had none of those things occurred, even both being 60+, I'm sure we'd be less concerned.


----------



## Magyarmum

rawpawsrus said:


> Christmas Market Shut Down After Hundreds of Shoppers Appear To Break Social Distancing Rules
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ear-to-break-social-distancing-rules-12153090


My home city! In "Slab Square" which is an enormous area capable of holding thousands of people..

Where I live in Hungary, people are good at wearing masks correctly, but not very good about social distancing, and I've made myself unpopular by telling people not to stand too close. Not that it makes much difference. I'm sure they just dismiss me as being an eccentric English woman!


----------



## catz4m8z

Lurcherlad said:


> Will they feel differently when they or someone they love gets the virus, needs to be admitted to hospital but it's at full capacity?


This! I dont think people really understand the knock on effect covid has to healthcare in general. There will be people right now dying of preventable diseases and illnesses because all the resources are being taken up with covid cases (which are still filling up intensive beds and causing staff shortages). 
Its not just that you might catch covid (but so what? most people dont get sick) its that you might have routine screenings cancelled, treatment put off or maybe its just that your elderly relative gets an instant 'do not resuscitate' order because the care just isnt available.
Im all for helping the economy but when I see giant crowds with no masks and no social distancing outside shops I just want to punch them!:Shifty


----------



## SusieRainbow

Magyarmum said:


> My home city! In "Slab Square" which is an enormous area capable of holding thousands of people..
> 
> Where I live in Hungary, people are good at wearing masks correctly, but not very good about social distancing, and I've made myself unpopular by telling people not to stand too close. Not that it makes much difference. I'm sure they just dismiss me as being an eccentric English woman!


Mine too ! The news pictures are unbelievable.
We went to Rufford Abbey to their Christmas Market , it was busy (ish) but not packed and hygiene precautions were excellent. One way systems, hand gel everywhere,social distancing and we were able to meet our daughter and family for the first tme in a month.


----------



## willa

I only have 4 days left in my job ( nursery teacher) thanks to Covid
My gosh I will miss the children in my class. Will miss seeing their smiling happy faces everyday


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> I only have 4 days left in my job ( nursery teacher) thanks to Covid
> My gosh I will miss the children in my class. Will miss seeing their smiling happy faces everyday


Sorry to hear this 

Hope you can find another job though.


----------



## Butmom

Please, please, please be over cautious! Wear a mask, socially distance, wash your hands frequently, stay home as much as possible. Our infantile President isn’t taking this seriously, but 281,000 people have died; our hospitals are literally overflowing; and we don’t have enough medical staff to man the field hospitals that we’re depending on.

Covid isn’t a hoax. It isn’t a plot to subvert the West. It’s a virus that spreads easily and respects no one. When we can restart the economy, we will. For now, stay safe. Nothing is going to be the same post-Covid, but let’s live to get there!


----------



## Butmom

MilleD said:


> Part of the reason we have to have a vaccine every year is because there are different strains of the virus and scientists predict which they think is going to cause the most problems in any year. You get vaccinated against those strains, so theoretically you could be vaccinated and catch a strain you are not inoculated against.
> 
> I think Covid-19 is just one virus rather than different strains isn't it? So whilst it may mutate (the different flu strains can too - you are right), it's still the same virus.
> 
> At least I think that's the case.


----------



## Butmom

Covid isn’t the flu. There aren’t different strains that require different vaccines, yet. Let’s get through this and then see where we are.


----------



## Butmom

catz4m8z said:


> This! I dont think people really understand the knock on effect covid has to healthcare in general. There will be people right now dying of preventable diseases and illnesses because all the resources are being taken up with covid cases (which are still filling up intensive beds and causing staff shortages).
> Its not just that you might catch covid (but so what? most people dont get sick) its that you might have routine screenings cancelled, treatment put off or maybe its just that your elderly relative gets an instant 'do not resuscitate' order because the care just isnt available.
> Im all for helping the economy but when I see giant crowds with no masks and no social distancing outside shops I just want to punch them!:Shifty


----------



## Butmom

You are spot on! That’s all the more reason to follow the protocols. The fewer chances for infection, the less the demands on our health care system. We don’t have the capacity to deal with Covid and other serious diseases at the same time. If you won’t do it for yourself, do it for your neighbor.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Calvine

rawpawsrus said:


> Even when everyone has been vaccinated here in the UK


Not everyone though. Many people think the vaccine has been ''rolled out'' with indecent haste and will decline to have it.


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> Not everyone though. Many people think the vaccine has been ''rolled out'' with indecent haste and will decline to have it.


I had my gardener in last week, we were chatting about this and it turns out the week before he was doing a job for someone working on the Oxford vaccine and got talking about it with them.

Turns out this timeframe is pretty much how long a vaccine of this kind would normally take to develop - IF they had the full, constant funding and resourcing they have had for Covid. What USUALLY happens, though, is that they get given a slice of funding and do some work, then have to shelve everything when the money runs out, and start the whole thing up again when/if they manage to secure more funding. Therefore R&D that could reasonably and safely be done in under a year actually takes several years to complete, simply because of the gaps in funding when no work can be done.

Anyway, the doctors in my family have no qualms about having the vaccine, and I prefer to take my cues from them


----------



## kittih

Jesthar said:


> I had my gardener in last week, we were chatting about this and it turns out the week before he was doing a job for someone working on the Oxford vaccine and got talking about it with them.
> 
> Turns out this timeframe is pretty much how long a vaccine of this kind would normally take to develop - IF they had the full, constant funding and resourcing they have had for Covid. What USUALLY happens, though, is that they get given a slice of funding and do some work, then have to shelve everything when the money runs out, and start the whole thing up again when/if they manage to secure more funding. Therefore R&D that could reasonably and safely be done in under a year actually takes several years to complete, simply because of the gaps in funding when no work can be done.
> 
> Anyway, the doctors in my family have no qualms about having the vaccine, and I prefer to take my cues from them


Agree with this. Researchers and vaccine developers are being given as much funding as they need to produce the vaccine. With this they can invest in staff, equipment and all the other costly aspects of research and development. Not only that they have access to the collective worldwide scientific skills and knowledge than they would normally have without the usual red tape etc. that restricts this sort of collaboration.

The regulatory bodies are also focussing on the covid vaccine, checking and interrogating the research data as it is produced rather than once it is all complete. Added to that there are lots of volunteers willing to be part in clinical trials so the trial phases can be completed efficiently.

The process for the covid vaccines is essentially an example if what happens if money were no object, everyone works together and the regulatory bodies concentrate their efforts solely in one thing.

Essentially the speed of producing the covid vaccine is all due to unlimited resources. In a normal world where multiple medicines or medical appliances are being developed and reviewed limited funds and staffing will slow the process down to the 10 or 15 years we usually see.

Hopefully the benefits from this scientific collaboration and improved regulatory processes will be carried over to other medicines and treatments in the future.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I had my gardener in last week, we were chatting about this and it turns out the week before he was doing a job for someone working on the Oxford vaccine and got talking about it with them.
> 
> Turns out this timeframe is pretty much how long a vaccine of this kind would normally take to develop - IF they had the full, constant funding and resourcing they have had for Covid. What USUALLY happens, though, is that they get given a slice of funding and do some work, then have to shelve everything when the money runs out, and start the whole thing up again when/if they manage to secure more funding. Therefore R&D that could reasonably and safely be done in under a year actually takes several years to complete, simply because of the gaps in funding when no work can be done.
> 
> Anyway, the doctors in my family have no qualms about having the vaccine, and I prefer to take my cues from them


I've tried to explain about the 'condensed' timeframe and funding to people, but they just won't have it. It's frustrating!


----------



## kittih

MilleD said:


> I've tried to explain about the 'condensed' timeframe and funding to people, but they just won't have it. It's frustrating!


If you have tried that is all you can do. Some people will remain convinced of their own view regardless of other facts or explanations. I have to regularly remind myself that not everyone is good at critical thinking and forming evidenced based opinions. If they are not open to listening to other viewpoints it is best not to waste your breath trying to convince them.

For many people opinions are formed based on emotions and following people they trust even if those opinions have no robust scientific basis.

This pandemic has created lots of strong emotions: fear, anger, protective feelings about family or an individuals own needs, helplessness or defensiveness. Also people generally don't like change and sticking to what they know or what the people around them believe can feel safer than accepting new concepts and ideas.

When people feel afraid, angry or helpless, logical thinking can go out the window and following someones opinions without challenge can feel like the easiest and safest course of action.

Unfortunately the people who are sometimes the most compelling "leaders' in this situation in giving certainty to their followers are not always those with advice about what makes scientific or logical sense. They invariably have their own agendas which have little to do with providing their followers with the correct information.


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> I think Covid-19 is just one virus rather than different strains isn't it? So whilst it may mutate (the different flu strains can too - you are right), it's still the same virus.


Wes the mink one a different strain?


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> Wes the mink one a different strain?


According to various things online, they seem to be a variant rather than a totally different version. It's still SARS-CoV-2 and it isn't currently thought that it has a knock on effect on the efficacy of the vaccines that are/have being/been developed.

At the moment anyway.


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> According to various things online, they seem to be a variant rather than a totally different version. It's still SARS-CoV-2 and it isn't currently thought that it has a knock on effect on the efficacy of the vaccines that are/have being/been developed.
> 
> At the moment anyway.


That's good. Hopefully it stays that way!


----------



## SbanR

@Jesthar I read an article a while back where an expert said of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines that recipients suffer unpleasant side effects i.e. feel really poorly, like a bad attack of flu.
Have your relatives mentioned any of that.

Happily, I'm sufficiently low down on the list to stand a good chance of receiving the Oxford vaccine


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> @Jesthar I read an article a while back where an expert said of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines that recipients suffer unpleasant side effects i.e. feel really poorly, like a bad attack of flu.
> Have your relatives mentioned any of that.
> 
> Happily, I'm sufficiently low down on the list to stand a good chance of receiving the Oxford vaccine


I have to say I think the Pfizer one is sufficiently enough of a pain in the ass to say no we'll wait as the Oxford one is so close but the cynical side of me says that money talks.

It needs to be stored below -70c and can only be moved 4 times. That all just worries me that if it hasn't been handled correctly it could affect the efficacy.

Jeez, now I sound like a conspiracy theorist! But I feel these are pertinent worries. I hope anyway.

My OH was talking to a drumming friend of his who was a microbiologist (american) and he said he would take the Pfizer one. So maybe my issues are unfounded...


----------



## catz4m8z

SbanR said:


> @Jesthar I read an article a while back where an expert said of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines that recipients suffer unpleasant side effects i.e. feel really poorly, like a bad attack of flu.


yup, I heard there were some pretty nasty side effects (not bad bad...just like high temps and flu like symptoms for 24-48hrs). I suppose that makes sense though, you are introducing your immune system to a totally new virus....it probably has to work abit harder then it would with flu to jumpstart a response!


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> yup, I heard there were some pretty nasty side effects (not bad bad...just like high temps and flu like symptoms for 24-48hrs). I suppose that makes sense though, you are introducing your immune system to a totally new virus....it probably has to work abit harder then it would with flu to jumpstart a response!


I haven't heard of the Oxford vaccine producing similar side effects.

Tbh I am leery of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines simply because it's completely new approach whereas the Oxford approach has been around for several years.


----------



## kittih

SbanR said:


> I haven't heard of the Oxford vaccine producing similar side effects.
> 
> Tbh I am leery of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines simply because it's completely new approach whereas the Oxford approach has been around for several years.


The few articles I have read about the side effects refer to a phase 1 clinical trial where 3 patients (out of 46) had high fevers for a couple of days and a sore injection site. These individuals received the highest doses in the trials. The vaccination to be given will not be at these high doses. One of the purposes of the trial was to determine an effective dose with fewest side effects.

I note that one article indicated that this reaction may be due to the lipid carrier that carries the RNA.

Many other vaccinations give brief side effects, it shows your immune system is definitely working  Flu and tetanus for example can also give fever, chills, headache, fatigue, muscular pains and a sore injection site.

It's all about evaluating risk of the disease against the those of the vaccine.

My very personal view is a vaccine with the chance of a couple of days with a fever, chills, fever, aches and a sore arm versus catching covid and experiencing those same symptoms for a lot longer period with the potential for death or long covid - the vaccine wins for me.

Everyone has to make their own choice based on their own personal risk factors and concerns.

Unfortunately there are a lot of unknowns currently which is unsurprising as this is a new disease in humans. I personally am more worried about the unknown long term health implications on catching covid even if I am asymptomatic due to the indication that covid can affect organs system wide than I am about my bodies reaction to a vaccine. But that's just how I personally feel about it.

I hope people are given the opportunity to chose the vaccine that feels most right for them.


----------



## Guest

This doesn't surprise me after the pictures that got released at the weekend.

London is heading to a tier 3 lockdown after an increase in cases.


----------



## rona

First person has had the vaccine 

The second was called William Shakespeare


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes i heard that - william shakespeare should have gone first! No one would have forgotton his name in history trivia:Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

My family are really stressing me out the are not really taking this seriously. My mum is in tier two but having people over. I said to her yesterday ‘your not following the rules’ she just brushes it off. 

She doesn’t want to meet out side because it’s cold which means I probably won’t see her for ages then they make me feel guilty for not visiting. Thing is I’m on my own if I get ill no one will come down and help me with the boxers or to get shopping. Grrrr. 

With regards to the vaccine I’m nervous but will have it happily.


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> Yes i heard that - william shakespeare should have gone first! No one would have forgotton his name in history trivia:Hilarious


It will turn up in future pub quizzes I expect; what was the name of the second person to be vaccinated against the great plague of 2020


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> This doesn't surprise me after the pictures that got released at the weekend.
> 
> London is heading to a tier 3 lockdown after an increase in cases.


What surprises me, is it wasn't in tier 3 to start with or is it because it's London and his was afraid to do it.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> My family are really stressing me out the are not really taking this seriously. My mum is in tier two but having people over. I said to her yesterday 'your not following the rules' she just brushes it off.
> 
> She doesn't want to meet out side because it's cold which means I probably won't see her for ages then they make me feel guilty for not visiting. Thing is I'm on my own if I get ill no one will come down and help me with the boxers or to get shopping. Grrrr.
> 
> With regards to the vaccine I'm nervous but will have it happily.


That's very tricky for you but really, all you can do is protect yourself.


----------



## Calvine

rawpawsrus said:


> London is heading to a tier 3 lockdown after an increase in cases.


 I think so . . . all pushing and shoving shoulder to shoulder to get to the shops as if they have been in prison for 20 years, plus the Christmas ''amnesty''. I will be surpised if there isn't another lockdown in January/Feb. I read that Sweden has just decided to have one - not sure how stringent it will be.


----------



## Siskin

A selection of tree decorations for Christmas 2020
























and the cake


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> A selection of tree decorations for Christmas 2020
> 
> View attachment 456870
> View attachment 456871
> View attachment 456872
> 
> 
> and the cake
> View attachment 456873


----------



## catz4m8z

Im not sure what the point of having tiers is TBH. Just been in town shopping (for only about the third time since this all began!) and I couldnt tell anything was different. Packed with people, all the shops open including hairdressers, pubs, cafe, etc...and we are supposed to be in tier 3!


----------



## Jaf

In Andalucia, Spain from midnight Friday I will finally be allowed to leave my village. I’m very low on food so I’m very relieved.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Im not sure what the point of having tiers is TBH. Just been in town shopping (for only about the third time since this all began!) and I couldnt tell anything was different. Packed with people, all the shops open including hairdressers, pubs, cafe, etc...and we are supposed to be in tier 3!


Unbelievable isn't it?
Had an experience the other day where a business owner actually told me to take my mask off (I didn't) and then proceed without mask to try and put herself within about two feet of me. Luckily I had an escape route, and I bloomin well used it quick smart


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> Unbelievable isn't it?


I really dont get it. My area has the highest infection rates by quite a large amount and they are still rising and yet people are wandering around the shops (alot of them without masks) as if everything is fine.
Its like watching Darwinism at work!


----------



## willa

Mum has booked 4 tickets for the Christmas Day church service, in our local church. What a bizzare time booking tickets, wearing masks, spaced out, no singing.

London probably about to go Into Tier 3 next week & everyone acting like the world will end.


----------



## willa

It’s 2.15am and there’s a bloody house party / gathering in the street I live in. Sounds like a large group of young all highly drunk.
Go the **** home, it’s illegal. Utter selfish idiots, this is the reason London cases are soaring.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Worrying, it looks like the number are going up again. Not sure if the five day break over Christmas is a good idea.


----------



## mrs phas

There's talk of Suffolk going into tier 3, just because of Ipswich and Hadleigh (Suffolk, not Essex)

Not sure why they don't just tier3 those areas, barbed wire, dogs, machine gun patrols and, now it's going begging, Donald's wall should just about do it


----------



## kimthecat

London might go up to tier 3. Im on the outskirts and next to Bucks and Berks , they will be on lower tiers.


----------



## rona

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55273907

*UK and Russian scientists are teaming up to trial a combination of the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Sputnik V vaccines to see if protection against Covid-19 can be improved.*


----------



## Lurcherlad

Good sleep has been rare for me for years, adventures are limited at the moment and nothing particularly interesting to talk about as most days are fairly dull, but I'm blessed to still be able to have warm hugs with DH and DS, we're still laughing and there's even the odd happy dance


----------



## Calvine

Contact tracer: 'People threaten us and block our calls' - BBC News

Interesting but quite alarming.


----------



## LittleEms

Calvine said:


> Contact tracer: 'People threaten us and block our calls' - BBC News
> 
> Interesting but quite alarming.


Very alarming!
I am still shocked at some people's attitudes to all of this.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> Contact tracer: 'People threaten us and block our calls' - BBC News
> 
> Interesting but quite alarming.


Good grief the entitlement of some, are they all mad!

No wonder the infection rate is going up again, makes me realise why we've decided to stay put and not venture into shops.


----------



## kittih

Calvine said:


> Contact tracer: 'People threaten us and block our calls' - BBC News
> 
> Interesting but quite alarming.


Thanks for sharing. Given the non compliance in general this doesn't suprise me but it's very sad that people can behave so appallingly and selfishly. I am sure that that nurse wouldn't have signed up to do track and trace contacting if she knew the abuse she would get. It sounds like a thankless task.

I decided a while ago to assume everyone I interact with is shedding virus and avoid them as much as I can. That way I don't rely on anyone else doing the right thing to ensure my own safety. Very sad to have such mistrust of other people though.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We have been to the supermarket this morning, it will the last time until the New Year, it wasn't to bad no crowds around, everyone keeping their distance only one in front at the till.


----------



## Jobeth

It’s steadily dropping here and we have gone from one of the highest areas to one of the lowest. I can’t socially distance at work so just hope that a mask and hand sanitiser is enough.


----------



## mrs phas

So London enters tier 3
As does parts of Essex and Hertfordshire
Does a 5 day Christmas covid break still sound a good idea?

BBC News - Covid: London to move into tier 3 as infections rise
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55306928


----------



## LittleEms

Well... I was waiting for that to happen to London. My sister lives there and she was hoping to be able to stay with me over Christmas.


----------



## mrs phas

And, a new variant of coronavirus

BBC News - 'New variant' of coronavirus identified - Hancock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211


----------



## ebonycat

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 457123
> 
> 
> Good sleep has been rare for me for years, adventures are limited at the moment and nothing particularly interesting to talk about as most days are fairly dull, but I'm blessed to still be able to have warm hugs with DH and DS, we're still laughing and there's even the odd happy dance


Oh I haven't had 'good sleep' in soooo long :Bawling
Essex (where I'am & London will be going into tier three on Wednesday.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ebonycat said:


> Oh I haven't had 'good sleep' in soooo long :Bawling
> Essex (where I'am & London will be going into tier three on Wednesday.


I'm in Essex too.


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> And, a new variant of coronavirus
> 
> BBC News - 'New variant' of coronavirus identified - Hancock
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211


 They think the vaccine ''should'' work against the new strain I read. Apparently it's a faster spreading one than the original . . . great.


----------



## StormyThai

The town that I live in is split by 3 different counties Essex, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire.
Which means that part of the town is in tier 3 and the rest is in tier 2...which IMO is ridiculous.

The whole town should be one or the other...not split.


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> And, a new variant of coronavirus
> 
> BBC News - 'New variant' of coronavirus identified - Hancock
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211


I wondered how long it would take for that to happen.


----------



## willa

Well there we go Into Tier 3.
Yet soon all the rules get cancelled for 5 days ‍♀‍♀‍♀


----------



## ebonycat

Surly the government will scrape the 5 day break at Christmas? I mean it’s not like Covid will say to itself I won’t infect anyone for 5 days as it’s Christmas, will it?
I’ve always antisocial, ‘some’ people really do rub me up the wrong way & so I stay away from them as much as possible. 
But this year has seen me edge even further away & in some ways that’s very sad


----------



## Calvine

ebonycat said:


> Surly the government will scrape the 5 day break at Christmas? I mean it's not like Covid will say to itself I won't infect anyone for 5 days as it's Christmas, will it?


I've thought this all along . . . I feel sure that we will pay for this in January.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> I've thought this all along . . . I feel sure that we will pay for this in January.


Me too. I've been saying for awhile there will be lockdown three in January.


----------



## ebonycat

Calvine said:


> I've thought this all along . . . I feel sure that we will pay for this in January.





Siskin said:


> Me too. I've been saying for awhile there will be lockdown three in January.


I agree January we will have our third lockdown.


----------



## kimthecat

Class sent home in local primary school as teacher tests positive. The sixth time this has happened since they went back in September at one school so goodness knows what is happening in others. They should break up early and start back later in Mid January.


----------



## simplysardonic

Our household is now officially out of isolation, last test we got done (daughter's) was negative.

Regardless of what tier we end up in over Christmas we've now planned to spend that time just as one household & we'll Skype & phone our loved ones on the day.


----------



## ebonycat

kimthecat said:


> Class sent home in local primary school as teacher tests positive. The sixth time this has happened since they went back in September at one school so goodness knows what is happening in others. They should break up early and start back later in Mid January.


I think I read on Twitter that the London mayor is urging all schools to close now until January


----------



## Siskin

ebonycat said:


> I think I read on Twitter that the London mayor is urging all schools to close now until January


Good idea. It's not much longer anyway til Christmas


----------



## samuelsmiles3




----------



## mrs phas

Hand on heart, I think BJ will hang onto those 5 days as long as possible
This may come out wrong so I apologise in advance, it's honest and from the heart...
Christmas, as most know, is the time where suicides go through the roof in the best of times,
After the lockdowns, the social distancing, the not bring able to see or hug our loved ones, the loss of jobs, homes, families and, worst of all, knowing loved ones have passed, alone, possibly scared, not understanding, surrounded by strangers and not even being allowed to arrange a funeral (during the worst time) with full respect
the suicide rate this year may well surge

BJ doesn't want that, not because he cares, but because, looking forward, he doesn't want those figures, along with all those, possibly, preventable deaths, had he acted earlier, and harder, on his post prime minister résumé
For some, his promise of Christmas with loved ones, is the last thread keeping them here 
For those people, cancel that, 
even for the good of the many (which it would be) 
would be the worst thing he could possibly do,
But, 
if he's going to cancel it, 
best he does it this week than next, let people get used to the idea and come to terms with it, 
allow MH support teams to flag those who need extra support at home, and, make sure there's open places for those who may not be able to be supported enough at home ( yes I know there's a shortage of both)
However
I think people will do what they wish next week, permission or not, no matter how dangerous it may be to others and the country in general 

Hopefully that made some sense


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> They think the vaccine ''should'' work against the new strain I read. Apparently it's a faster spreading one than the original . . . great.


I wonder how they know it's that making it spread when all the crowds have been happily mixing in the shopping areas in London...


----------



## kimthecat

ebonycat said:


> I think I read on Twitter that the London mayor is urging all schools to close now until January


That would be a good idea and for the 2 weeks after Christmas. On the news , one council in London closed a school and the Government is prosecuting them. It should be the Schools decision.

People will ignore the rules if Christmas is canceled so they may as well let us have the 5 days .

There seems to be a mutant covid virus driving up figures in the South East 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...riant-more-dangerous-mutation-coronavirus-EVG


----------



## HarlequinCat

A mutation is not always a bad thing. This one seems to make it easier to pass on, but hopefully it makes it less deadly to those that catch it.

We need to speed up the use of vaccines. Maybe increase the uptake in areas that have had a flare up and see what it does to the numbers?


----------



## Lurcherlad

In Essex, we’re going into Tier 3 along with London and parts of Hertfordshire.

Tbh I’m quite relieved as numbers are increasing and despite protestations to the contrary, I know that a number of pubs and restaurants locally are NOT sticking to the rules and are knowingly allowing (even encouraging) non same household groups to socialise together closely indoors on their premises. One I heard doing so the night even after a Police visit .... who visited the next evening to check and caught them flouting the rules again!

That is why the virus is spreading.

It ain’t complicated.


----------



## rona

In my area we have had 4 spikes, all have been schools 

Luckily they don't seem to have spread to the wider community (Yet) and have only lasted a few days


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> In Essex, we're going into Tier 3 along with London and parts of Hertfordshire.
> 
> Tbh I'm quite relieved as numbers are increasing and despite protestations to the contrary, I know that a number of pubs and restaurants locally are NOT sticking to the rules and are knowingly allowing (even encouraging) *non same household groups to socialise* together closely indoors on their premises. One I heard doing so the night even after a Police visit .... who visited the next evening to check and caught them flouting the rules again!
> 
> That is why the virus is spreading.
> 
> It ain't complicated.


That is allowed if you are in a bubble. I'm assuming these folks weren't?


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> I wonder how they know it's that making it spread when all the crowds have been happily mixing in the shopping areas in London...


 I don't know; it's as if someone is just reaching into thin air ad producing ''facts'' and ''figures'' to be seen to be doing something.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I don't know; it's as if someone is just reaching into thin air ad producing ''facts'' and ''figures'' to be seen to be doing something.


Could it be an excuse because the tier system just simply isn't working maybe?


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Could it be an excuse because the tier system just simply isn't working maybe?


 And, worryingly, the two lockdowns don't seem to have had the hoped-for results (as far as I an see).


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> And, worryingly, the two lockdowns don't seem to have had the hoped-for results (as far as I an see).


My thoughts and I am not a scientist is that we have done everything half arsed. The last lockdown it was so busy out everywhere. Some shops still open rules not clear. The tier system is complicated some businesses can stay open others can't. I work in schools and they are trying so hard but it's impossible to socially distance due to tiny classrooms.

In Germany Angela has banned Christmas mixing she is very clear about the reasons for this.

I feel so let down by our government we could have done better. Sorry for the grumble but it's been such a mess.


----------



## catz4m8z

Apparently my hospital is gearing up for a third wave about January time....pretty sure they have that wrong. Can you go into a third wave before you have come out of the second?

Hopefully most people will be sensible about things and stick at home this christmas. Personally I think its a case of increased inffection rates and more testing that is making figures so high. Not sure if they were really so much lower before or if we just werent testing quite as much.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm starting the think the relaxation of the rules over Christmas is a bad idea. I agree with Germany locking everything down till after Christmas and the New Year.


----------



## Cleo38

mrs phas said:


> However
> I think people will do what they wish next week, permission or not, no matter how dangerous it may be to others and the country in general
> 
> Hopefully that made some sense


I will be one of those people, I am spending Christmas with my family regardless of what the rules are. It's not about putting others at risk but making my decision based on my best judgement. Am sure there are many people like me who will use their common sense to decide how to spend their Christmas. I do not need the government to tell me who I can or can't spend my time with.


----------



## Magyarmum

Standing on the outside looking in (so to speak) I'm totally confused at what's happening in the UK, The rules here in Hungary have been kept quite simple and clear and the message has has hardly altered since day one. The big difference over here is that apart from not being able to see loved ones in care homes or hospital, there has never been any restrictions of seeing immediate family, the emphasis being that the elderly are amongst the most vulnerable and should be protected as much as possible.

It's been announced that all New Year celebrations, fireworks, etc have been cancelled. We will be told what will happen over Christmas by the end of this week. The rate of new infections appears to be slowly going down.


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Standing on the outside looking in (so to speak) I'm totally confused at what's happening in the UK, The rules here in Hungary have been kept quite simple and clear and the message has has hardly altered since day one. The big difference over here is that apart from not being able to see loved ones in care homes or hospital, there has never been any restrictions of seeing immediate family, the emphasis being that the elderly are amongst the most vulnerable and should be protected as much as possible.
> 
> It's been announced that all New Year celebrations, fireworks, etc have been cancelled. We will be told what will happen over Christmas by the end of this week. The rate of new infections appears to be slowly going down.


[/QUOTE]
One of the big differences between Hungary and the U.K. is that there is an awful lot of brits who couldn't care less, can't be bothered and won't obey the rules


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> New I'm starting the think the relaxation of the rules over Christmas is a bad idea.


Only _starting _to think??!! I dont know how they thought it was ever going to be a good idea in the first place. Anyone with half an eye could have foreseen what was going to happen.

Apparently, before the government came up with this daft idea, only 16% of people planned to go ahead with meeting folk over Christmas. After the announcement, that shot up to 43%.

I have no issue with folk assessing their own risks and making an adult decision but who are these people actually listening to this government advice?! It was so obvious all along that the risk remained high and was not going to decrease.


----------



## StormyThai

Siskin said:


> won't obey the rules


Yes...
Distancing doesn't seem to be a thing anymore...I'm a bit fed up of having to dive across the road because two or three people insist in taking up the whole pavement without any consideration, I'm fed up of seeing people not wear their mask properly (or at all), I'm fed up of seeing friends put into medically induced comas (3 so far with one still under) and suffering with long covid symptoms and most of all I am fed up with not being able to visit my family due the selfishness of others 

We will see at least one more wave....If the government hadn't been such bumbling baboons during the start of all this and made things clear it wouldn't be so frustrating IMHV


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> That is allowed if you are in a bubble. I'm assuming these folks weren't?


No, they weren't.


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> I have no issue with folk assessing their own risks and making an adult decision


i think alot of the problem is people assessing their own risks and making adult decisions based on information they found on Youtube or Facebook. Alot of people think they know best....these people are rarely epidemiologists or scientists at the cutting edge of covid research!

Honestly I get annoyed when people start blithering on about their civil liberties and personal freedoms too TBH. Its kinda insulting to those people out there in countries who truly have no civil liberties and face horrible persecution on a daily basis. Being told you shouldnt have a christmas party isnt the same thing at all.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> i think alot of the problem is people assessing their own risks and making adult decisions based on information they found on Youtube or Facebook. Alot of people think they know best....these people are rarely epidemiologists or scientists at the cutting edge of covid research!
> 
> Honestly I get annoyed when people start blithering on about their civil liberties and personal freedoms too TBH. Its kinda insulting to those people out there in countries who truly have no civil liberties and face horrible persecution on a daily basis. Being told you shouldnt have a christmas party isnt the same thing at all.


Your last paragraph is exactly how I feel. I'm fed up with my life being put at risk due to these idiots.


----------



## kittih

catz4m8z said:


> Apparently my hospital is gearing up for a third wave about January time....pretty sure they have that wrong. Can you go into a third wave before you have come out of the second?
> 
> Hopefully most people will be sensible about things and stick at home this christmas. Personally I think its a case of increased inffection rates and more testing that is making figures so high. Not sure if they were really so much lower before or if we just werent testing quite as much.


I suppose if it comes down and then peaks again then that is a third wave. The baseline doesn't have to get really low but I know what you mean.

Re your other point about testing I tend to look at all the survey data not just the government figures. The covid Zoe app for instance has been tracking the infection rate using a large number if citizens who log daily ( no matter whether they are well or not). Unlike the government advice where they only test people with one or more of the 3 declared symptoms (fever, cough, anosmia), the Zoe users are invited for testing if they show a combination of symptoms some of which the government aren't including eg specific characteristic rashes like covid toes etc.

Zoe have been doing this since early on and their data mirrors the government data (though usually several days ahead of official data as the data is captured as soon as someone becomes ill rather than at a later stage when the more serious symptoms start and the test results are recorded.

Zoe predict covid infections using their daily logged data prior to the covid test results being obtained and so can extrapolate real numbers of infections not based onincreasing or decreasing test rates.

These values generally correspond to the government test result data and ONS survey results.

The first wave in reality was much much higher than recorded as so few people were tested ( only those seriously ill in hospital).

There may be virus variants that are more infectious ( this is still being determined) so if so this may increase transmission.

In my view though people are becoming more and more non compliant and disengaged from social distancing etc so the increases happen when people start interacting again.


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> i think alot of the problem is people assessing their own risks and making adult decisions based on information they found on Youtube or Facebook. Alot of people think they know best....these people are rarely epidemiologists or scientists at the cutting edge of covid research!
> 
> Honestly I get annoyed when people start blithering on about their civil liberties and personal freedoms too TBH. Its kinda insulting to those people out there in countries who truly have no civil liberties and face horrible persecution on a daily basis. Being told you shouldnt have a christmas party isnt the same thing at all.


In some ways I agree that we cannot compare the UK to dictatorships however, our civil liberties are being curtailed & we should all be worried when that starts to happen. When police start arresting middle aged women for taking their own mother from a care home where she has been starved of human company for months then I think we all have a right to worry & question what really is happening.

I do not get my info from any social media but base it on my circumstances, current information & common sense, something which some of the current/past rules are clearly not & are almost verging on ridiculous


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> In some ways I agree that we cannot compare the UK to dictatorships however, our civil liberties are being curtailed & we should all be worried when that starts to happen. When police start arresting middle aged women for taking their own mother from a care home where she has been starved of human company for months then I think we all have a right to worry & question what really is happening.
> 
> I do not get my info from any social media but base it on my circumstances, current information & common sense, something which some of the current/past rules are clearly not & are almost verging on ridiculous


The daughter of the elderly lady removed from the care home did not, as I understood it, have Power of Attorney over her Health & Welfare, so the home were acting correctly in this instance as there was a safeguarding issue. You can't have relatives just turning up and removing people from care without the right authority/permissions for obvious reasons.

She may not have seen her family but I doubt she was kept in solitary confinement by the care home, with no human contact.


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh, I agree with you @catz4m8z. It is very hard for me to imagine myself into a position where i would pay the price of death for christmas with my family. And yet many do see that as a risk worth taking.

In fact, years ago, i used to go down to England for a huge family boxing day party and it was brilliant. But there were a lot of smokers there and, i dont know if it was the smoke or just different viruses about but every single year i went down, i started with a sore throat that quickly turned into a really bad cold. No matter how fun things are, i cant enjoy things with a raging temperature and raw throat. So we just stopped going.

Im not even prepared to risk a cold to see folk!!

Having said that, since this whole thing started, it isnt young folk i have seen flouting rules. It is old ones! Probably because my main activities just now are dog walks and cafes.

Everywhere i go i see old (like really old white haired frail folk) gathered together chatting, sitting on public benches and out en masse in cafes and shops.

It isnt my place really to judge them - obviously they must have decided that the lunch out is more important to their well-being than any risk.

And young folk - healthy young folk- in their 20s and 30s - the risks for them getting together at christmas must be low. They have paid a heavy price during this pandemic with all the damage to the economy.

So im not going to sit in judgement of anybody. For me, in my 50s, im not going to be taking any chances and i will hunker down til the vaccine comes.

But im ok. I dont live alone. Im happy. Im not struggling money wise or any other way. So it is very easy for me to follow all the rules.

I actually have some sympathy with @Cleo38 's viewpoint. But in a crisis like this, im the sort of person that is happy to play my part in pulling together for the sake of everyone.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> The daughter of the elderly lady removed from the care home did not, as I understood it, have Power of Attorney over her Health & Welfare, so the home were acting correctly in this instance as there was a safeguarding issue. You can't have relatives just turning up and removing people from care without the right authority/permissions for obvious reasons.
> 
> She may not have seen her family but I doubt she was kept in solitary confinement by the care home, with no human contact.


I worked in care homes for many years and yes even pre pandemic the police would have been called. Of course family can take residents home but it would have probably taken a few days of paperwork and procedures. Some are on life saving medicine we were legally obliged to hold and administer. Would have been quite a panic if they had suddenly been removed.


----------



## Cleo38

Lurcherlad said:


> The daughter of the elderly lady removed from the care home did not, as I understood it, have Power of Attorney over her Health & Welfare, so the home were acting correctly in this instance as there was a safeguarding issue. You can't have relatives just turning up and removing people from care without the right authority/permissions for obvious reasons.
> 
> She may not have seen her family but I doubt she was kept in solitary confinement by the care home, with no human contact.


Alot of elderly were or are being kept in almost solitary confinement as the day rooms, communal areas or activities usually planned had all been cancelled. the only contact they are having is with masked staff & the contact is minimal. Obviously care homes may differ but at one stage this was the case for alot of care homes.

Safeguarding issue or maybe the home was concerned it as losing £££'s if the woman was taken out. This was not simply anyone turning up but the woman's daughter who had been a regular visitor up until Covid & ha been trying to liaise with staff. This could have been resolved in a far better way for everyone involved & listening to the woman talk about this on a R2 programme was heart-breaking.

My grandad is in a warden assisted flat & they were not allowed to even cut through a communal area to go to the gardens .... madness! They were not ''allowed' to mix with each other even outside until they rebelled & told staff to arrest them then!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> Alot of elderly were or are being kept in almost solitary confinement as the day rooms, communal areas or activities usually planned had all been cancelled. the only contact they are having is with masked staff & the contact is minimal. Obviously care homes may differ but at one stage this was the case for alot of care homes.
> 
> Safeguarding issue or maybe the home was concerned it as losing £££'s if the woman was taken out. This was not simply anyone turning up but the woman's daughter who had been a regular visitor up until Covid & ha been trying to liaise with staff. This could have been resolved in a far better way for everyone involved & listening to the woman talk about this on a R2 programme was heart-breaking.
> 
> My grandad is in a warden assisted flat & they were not allowed to even cut through a communal area to go to the gardens .... madness! They were not ''allowed' to mix with each other even outside until they rebelled & told staff to arrest them then!


I appreciate all that, however, the daughter did turn up and remove her mother without following the correct procedures - not all children do best by their elderly and vulnerable parents after all - hence the need for safeguarding procedures.

If the care home had let her go and something terrible happened, no doubt they'd get the blame for that too.


----------



## Blackadder

Cleo38 said:


> I do not get my info from any social media but base it on my circumstances, current information & common sense, something which some of the current/past rules are clearly not & are almost verging on ridiculous


Right there is part of the reason the public have given up. The government have lost credibility with their constant flip-flopping, constant changes & often, non sensical rules. Quite frankly they are starting to look totally incompetent & I get the impression that they are doing a lot of this just to be seen as doing something.


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> Oh, I agree with you @catz4m8z. It is very hard for me to imagine myself into a position where i would pay the price of death for christmas with my family. And yet many do see that as a risk worth taking.
> 
> In fact, years ago, i used to go down to England for a huge family boxing day party and it was brilliant. But there were a lot of smokers there and, i dont know if it was the smoke or just different viruses about but every single year i went down, i started with a sore throat that quickly turned into a really bad cold. No matter how fun things are, i cant enjoy things with a raging temperature and raw throat. So we just stopped going.
> 
> Im not even prepared to risk a cold to see folk!!
> 
> Having said that, since this whole thing started, it isnt young folk i have seen flouting rules. It is old ones! Probably because my main activities just now are dog walks and cafes.
> 
> Everywhere i go i see old (like really old white haired frail folk) gathered together chatting, sitting on public benches and out en masse in cafes and shops.
> 
> It isnt my place really to judge them - obviously they must have decided that the lunch out is more important to their well-being than any risk.
> 
> And young folk - healthy young folk- in their 20s and 30s - the risks for them getting together at christmas must be low. They have paid a heavy price during this pandemic with all the damage to the economy.
> 
> So im not going to sit in judgement of anybody. For me, in my 50s, im not going to be taking any chances and i will hunker down til the vaccine comes.
> 
> But im ok. I dont live alone. Im happy. Im not struggling money wise or any other way. So it is very easy for me to follow all the rules.
> 
> I actually have some sympathy with @Cleo38 's viewpoint. But in a crisis like this, im the sort of person that is happy to play my part in pulling together for the sake of everyone.


I try to go for a walk most days, weather permitting. Usually on one day my friend from close by joins me and we walk and gossip which is great for both of us and we enjoy that bit of humanity immensely. However we did see several large groups of hikers altogether, mainly older people, who were definitely not all from the same family. They weren't social distancing either.

On another note our local pub is in difficulties, they are currently running at a loss of £5000 to £6000 a week which is unsustainable for any length of time. People are trying to go, but we are a village of older folk, second homes or holiday homes and younger families who can't afford the gastro pub prices. The pub did some take outs during lock down, but have not continued during normal trading which is a great pity as their fixed price menu has a really nice fish pie option. Several of us have asked if they will continue to do takeouts but they don't seem to want to which seems short sighted. I just can't bring myself to go in currently as I really must shield still.


----------



## willa

Had a covid antigen swab this afternoon, results being emailed to me 10pm. ( I’m going to my parents on Thursday till after Christmas & want to check I’m all clear) I live in London where the cases are sky high 
Maybe I’m a wussy, but damn that swab went far in made my eyes water


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> However we did see several large groups of hikers altogether, mainly older people, who were definitely not all from the same family. They weren't social distancing either.


Most of the elderly people I know are sensible and looking after their health (social distancing, masks, etc) however there are a couple who refuse to wear masks and go out regardless. Their attitude is 'nobody is going to tell me what to do...if I get it, I get it!'. :Shifty
You just know that attitude will disappear if they actually do get sick!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> Most of the elderly people I know are sensible and looking after their health (social distancing, masks, etc) however there are a couple who refuse to wear masks and go out regardless. Their attitude is 'nobody is going to tell me what to do...if I get it, I get it!'. :Shifty
> You just know that attitude will disappear if they actually do get sick!


 The elderly here, well some of them not all of course, resist being told which side of the street they can to walk on, gather in their little circles for a natter at the bus stops and in the first lockdown insisted on sitting on `their` benches dotted around town. It would take a brave person to tell them they aren`t abiding by the rules . In fairness to them many of them have just had to get on with it, some don`t have the internet so have had no choice but to be out most days picking up little bits of shopping cos that`s all they can carry at any on time and of course they will tell you they`ve lived through worse and when its their time its their time!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> I try to go for a walk most days, weather permitting. Usually on one day my friend from close by joins me and we walk and gossip which is great for both of us and we enjoy that bit of humanity immensely. However we did see several large groups of hikers altogether, mainly older people, who were definitely not all from the same family. They weren't social distancing either.
> 
> On another note our local pub is in difficulties, they are currently running at a loss of £5000 to £6000 a week which is unsustainable for any length of time. People are trying to go, but we are a village of older folk, second homes or holiday homes and younger families who can't afford the gastro pub prices. The pub did some take outs during lock down, but have not continued during normal trading which is a great pity as their fixed price menu has a really nice fish pie option. Several of us have asked if they will continue to do takeouts but they don't seem to want to which seems short sighted. I just can't bring myself to go in currently as I really must shield still.


I`m concerned for our local pubs that don`t serve food as they cant open, they are really old pubs it will be tragic to see them go. I tell myself they`ve stood as a public houses for all these years, been through many trials and are still standing, they will get through this too!


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> I`m concerned for our local pubs that don`t serve food as they cant open, they are really old pubs it will be tragic to see them go. I tell myself they`ve stood as a public houses for all these years, been through many trials and are still standing, they will get through this too!


It worry's me that the pub may close again. About 10 years ago their was a sudden departure of the tenant, rumours of cooking the books as well as the food abounded. It took several years before another tenant was found mainly due to the corporation that owns the pub. It's a four hundred year old beautiful building with a huge amount of character and is owned by a company that buys assets for pension funds. They really don't appear to be bothered about the upkeep not the type of tenants they get so long as the extortionate annual rent is paid. The village got together and organised making it into a village asset where if the company decides to sell they must give the village 6 months warning to allow them to come up with the cash (something around about £350,000 to £400,000 would be needed). The pub was closed for over two years and the owners were asked if they would sell to the village, they wouldn't saying they did it want to sell. Eventually a tenant was found, a strange lady whose previous experience seemed to be running an antique shop and cafe in France. She did give it a good go and came up with some new ideas, but redecorated the pub painting an interior Cotswold stone wall with black paint amongst other things! Her heart wasn't in it really and she left after a few years and luckily the current tenants have put a lot of effort into restoring the pub back to its Cotswold roots. One of their errors is to try to run it as a gastro cordon bleu type of place rather then a village pub, but gradually have realised they need to get the locals in to eat as well as have a pint or two and have modified their menus. I just hope they can hang on in there for another few months until all is oldies have had our jab and feel safe enough to go out again.


----------



## willa

Feeling oddly on edge waiting for the result.
I have no reason to, as no symptoms atall. But never know I could asymptomatic


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Feeling oddly on edge waiting for the result.
> I have no reason to, as no symptoms atall. But never know I could asymptomatic


Fingers crossed for you


----------



## kimthecat

3dogs2cats said:


> The elderly here, well some of them not all of course, resist being told which side of the street they can to walk on, gather in their little circles for a natter at the bus stops and in the first lockdown insisted on sitting on `their` benches dotted around town. It would take a brave person to tell them they aren`t abiding by the rules . In fairness to them many of them have just had to get on with it, some don`t have the internet so have had no choice but to be out most days picking up little bits of shopping cos that`s all they can carry at any on time and of course they will tell you they`ve lived through worse and when its their time its their time!


Its opposite here. Older people are more careful as they dont want to catch covid. Some of the young mums and teenagers are the worst, they stand around in groups, they take up all the pavement and force you to walk in the road. No distancing .


----------



## willa

Negative. Not surprised. I always wear a mask everywhere etc, avoid shops when I can. Don’t socialise atall, only been seeing my colleagues in work

Peace of mind knowing I can go home and not put my parents in danger ( I know I can catch it anywhere, but still peace of mind !)

We have cancelled Boxing Day lunch with my Aunt and Uncle,


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> Its opposite here. Older people are more careful as they dont want to catch covid. Some of the young mums and teenagers are the worst, they stand around in groups, they take up all the pavement and force you to walk in the road. No distancing .


OH and I seem to always be the ones giving way (or crossing the road) to avoid close encounters .... others approaching just keep on coming 

And rarely an acknowledgment or word of thanks .... people can be so ignorant ime.


----------



## Siskin

People are fine in the village mainly although some of the younger people seem less bothered about keeping distanced, I was really irritated by one group of hikers as they were spread all over the road which meant my friend and I had to press tight to the wall to keep safely distanced. They didn’t even bother to reply to our hello’s. There are times when I think I’ve become invisible.


----------



## willa

Two schools near my parents have had confirmed cases on past week.In the next door village a school had 11 cases & is fully shut. In the local town 5 cases & is still open


----------



## Boxer123

Has anyone heard the recording of Tom Cruise loosing his mind over lack of social distancing. Maybe put him in charge of Christmas guidelines since the government can’t make up their minds.


----------



## LittleEms

Re the distancing chat - you'd never know there was a pandemic in my town! Pretty much everywhere I go people seem to be wandering in groups, bumping into each other etc. It's frustrating.

Also, my Grandpa received the first part of the vaccine yesterday! He's had no reaction which is good. Though the hospital really need to organise themselves better. He's 90 and has a bad leg so can't walk far without aid. They made him and about 30-40 other vulnerable elderly people stand outside for an hour!! I hope other hospitals don't do the same.


----------



## willa

I love my brother dearly. But I’m so annoyed with him. 
The weekend just gone, he had his best friend to stay for the weekend ( who lives in London)
Then thismorning his friend tested Positive for Covid. So now my brother and his family have to isolate for 10 days.


----------



## catz4m8z

well, just 'seen' my parents for xmas..... we exchanged gifts and a quick chat on my doorstep!:Shy Neither of us is happy to do more then that!

Looks like there are calls to declare a critical incident at my local hospital as it is completely full (and hard to divert patients when surrounding ones are reaching capacity). Also my poor cousin has just been admitted as well, she was 10 days in when her symptoms suddenly got alot worse.
Just what is life like at the moment!?:Bag


----------



## StormyThai

Cases have more than doubled in my town in the last week with an 80% increase and 1153 admitted to hospital in the last 7 days which is a 41% increase on the previous weeks 
My best friends dad was tested positive yesterday too but thankfully he is still at home.


----------



## Boxer123

catz4m8z said:


> well, just 'seen' my parents for xmas..... we exchanged gifts and a quick chat on my doorstep!:Shy Neither of us is happy to do more then that!
> 
> Looks like there are calls to declare a critical incident at my local hospital as it is completely full (and hard to divert patients when surrounding ones are reaching capacity). Also my poor cousin has just been admitted as well, she was 10 days in when her symptoms suddenly got alot worse.
> Just what is life like at the moment!?:Bag


I just can't believe how bad it is and it doesn't seem to be really taken seriously. January is going to be horrendous. I hope your cousin is ok.


----------



## willa

My cousin who is young ( age 18 ) fit and healthy yesterday ended up in a London hospital with Covid. Struggling to breath properly. Has always worn a mask etc


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> I just can't believe how bad it is and it doesn't seem to be really taken seriously. January is going to be horrendous. I hope your cousin is ok.


Which shows imo why the idea "just protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us get on with life" won't work.

The NHS alone will be on it's knees very quickly, then everyone is at risk.


----------



## catz4m8z

Boxer123 said:


> I hope your cousin is ok.


thanks...me too!



willa said:


> My cousin who is young ( age 18 ) fit and healthy yesterday ended up in a London hospital with Covid. Struggling to breath properly. Has always worn a mask etc


Hospitals do seem to be seeing more and more young people and teenagers. Not sure if that is because they are the ones more likely not to social distance or if its because of this new strain we have now. Fingers crossed _your_ cousin is ok too!



Lurcherlad said:


> The NHS alone will be on it's knees very quickly, then everyone is at risk.


I dont know about the rest of the country but in the SE its been on its knees for a while. I think we are facing a full on collapse at the moment! Dont know what the solution is TBH...even if you opened the nightingale hospitals that were built earlier in the year there is nobody to staff them, my hospital has been running on stupidly short staffing for the last 6 weeks.
I suppose worst case scenario they could open the nightingales, send the lower dependency cases and staff with the armed forces? run it as a field hospital.
(sheesh...thats not something I ever thought we would have to be thinking about!)


----------



## Gemmaa

Our part of Herts just got moved into tier 3 as well, even though we've been doing pretty well 

ETA: Tier 3 is stupid, we can't have my sister and brother-in-law round, even though they don't go anywhere, but I can get my hair cut :Shifty


----------



## MilleD

According to the data on this, we should really have been down to tier 2. No such bl00dy luck. This is the change in cases per 100,000 19th Nov - 12th Dec. My county is mix of dark blue and blue.


----------



## Nonnie

Every bit of Surrey but mine in tier 3.

I do wonder what makes our area different in terms of cases. I dont think the LA have done anything spectacular.


----------



## Magyarmum

The number of new infections in Hungary has halved over the past few days from around 6000 to 2952 today. I'm not sure though if for some reason they've stopped or reduced testing which might account for the difference - I hope not!

According to the government there are still plenty of available hospital beds and ventilators for anyone who needs them. New Years Eve celebrations and fireworks have been cancelled. We won't know until Monday what arrangements will be allowed over Christmas but as shops and supermarkets in Hungary will be closed from 2 pm on Christmas Eve until 5 am on the 27th maybe the rules for a family Christmas will be relaxed a little.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Gemmaa said:


> Our part of Herts just got moved into tier 3 as well, even though we've been doing pretty well
> 
> ETA: Tier 3 is stupid, we can't have my sister and brother-in-law round, even though they don't go anywhere, but I can get my hair cut :Shifty


Though the point there is that, in the hairdressers they will be PPE'd up, the premises antibac'd, well ventilated, you'll wear a mask, be there for a relatively short time and maybe shower and change as soon as you get home?

If family visit indoors the risks are higher because of longer periods, badly ventilated and SD from family is so alien and easy to forget?


----------



## willa

So my parents local town just been put into Tier 3 . Yet no idea if of all of Hampshire are moved Into Tier 3


----------



## Gemmaa

Lurcherlad said:


> Though the point there is that, in the hairdressers they will be PPE'd up, the premises antibac'd, well ventilated, you'll wear a mask, be there for a relatively short time and maybe shower and change as soon as you get home?
> 
> If family visit indoors the risks are higher because of longer periods, badly ventilated and SD from family is so alien and easy to forget?


Yeah, I do get that. I suppose I assume everyone is being as sensible, and over the top careful, as we are. 
It's just disappointing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Gemmaa said:


> Yeah, I do get that. I suppose I assume *everyone is being as sensible, and over the top careful, as we are. *
> It's just disappointing.


If only


----------



## ForestWomble

My areas numbers are going up scarily fast, I just hope people will be sensible when it comes to Christmas, but I fear some won't and we'll be in a terrible position in January.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Every bit of Surrey but mine in tier 3.
> 
> I do wonder what makes our area different in terms of cases. I dont think the LA have done anything spectacular.


Waverley then?


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Though the point there is that, in the hairdressers they will be PPE'd up, the premises antibac'd, well ventilated, you'll wear a mask, be there for a relatively short time and maybe shower and change as soon as you get home?
> 
> If family visit indoors the risks are higher because of longer periods, badly ventilated and SD from family is so alien and easy to forget?


I've actually got an appointment at the hairdressers on Tuesday. I'm very nervous.

But the lady who does my highlights is coming in specially as she doesn't work Tuesdays and I haven't been since January (every 12 weeks that got scuppered by the first lockdown). So I really do need it, but it is only hair.

I do want to support them too as they have been hit badly.

It's a bit of a dilemma.


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> Waverley then?


How ever did you work that out?


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> How ever did you work that out?


:Watching


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I've actually got an appointment at the hairdressers on Tuesday. I'm very nervous.
> 
> But the lady who does my highlights is coming in specially as she doesn't work Tuesdays and I haven't been since January (every 12 weeks that got scuppered by the first lockdown). So I really do need it, but it is only hair.
> 
> I do want to support them too as they have been hit badly.
> 
> It's a bit of a dilemma.


I visited my hairdresser the week before 2nd Lockdown in November (first time since March) and felt ok having followed all the rules and seeing that they had too.

She hadn't heard of anyone local with the virus either.

I rang a couple of days after that LD to book in to be advised she wasn't in as she had the virus!

I wonder where she caught it as we had been in LD for 3 weeks and only out for 2-3 days?

I'm back to avoiding the salon and cutting my own hair for the foreseeable as I don't feel so confident to go in there now.


----------



## niamh123

I live in Swansea and the numbers are rising I know 4 people who now have Covid,we are going on full lockdown from 6pm on Xmas day


----------



## Lurcherlad

niamh123 said:


> I live in Swansea and the numbers are rising I know 4 people who now have Covid,we are going on full lockdown from 6pm on Xmas day


You've had tougher lockdowns than England anyway, haven't you?

Frustrating if they haven't worked


----------



## Cully

The last time I had my haircut was just before the first lockdown. Then I booked my mobile hairdresser to come here mid October and was really looking forward to having it cut short again. Then I had my flu jab and had a bad reaction so had to cancel my hair appointment.
I feel miserable at the moment and fed up looking like a yeti, but can't risk getting it cut with SE having so many new cases.
So I'm rather envious of anyone able to see a hairdresser just now


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> The last time I had my haircut was just before the first lockdown. Then I booked my mobile hairdresser to come here mid October and was really looking forward to having it cut short again. Then I had my flu jab and had a bad reaction so had to cancel my hair appointment.
> I feel miserable at the moment and fed up looking like a yeti, but can't risk getting it cut with SE having so many new cases.
> So I'm rather envious of anyone able to see a hairdresser just now


I've had two trims since first LD was lifted, with appointment next week for another trim.
While waiting to be called in, I've observed them cleaning down surfaces.
They also wear a mask (properly!) and face shield.


----------



## Siskin

Managed to get mine cut just before the first lockdown and again not long before the second one. The way things are going I suspect I would be just before lockdown 3 if I dare to go in January. I can put up with it growing longer, it’s poker straight and cut in a bob so looks ok


----------



## Siskin

Hope this works

https://fb.watch/2r1ujMSL8P/


----------



## niamh123

I had a haircut yesterday,I have gone as short as I can as no idea how long our full lockdown will carry on for


----------



## Boxer123

I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary. Why on earth is Boris going ahead with Christmas plans ? Am I missing something ?


----------



## MilleD

niamh123 said:


> I live in Swansea and the numbers are rising I know 4 people who now have Covid,we are going on full lockdown from 6pm on Xmas day


It's the 28th the full lockdown is from isn't it? Non essential shops and hospitality is closing at 6pm on Christmas day (which is better than we have, pub wise), but the reduced mixing rules still apply until the 28th?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary. Why on earth is Boris going ahead with Christmas plans ? Am I missing something ?


I think his worried if he doesn't do something some people will just do what they want, but 5 days the man has lost it, letting all tiers able to mix together is just going to make it worse, if his not careful we will end up in a complete lockdown again.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think his worried if he doesn't do something some people will just do what they want, but 5 days the man has lost it, letting all tiers able to mix together is just going to make it worse, if his not careful we will end up in a complete lockdown again.


I do get that argument but actually think it would take the pressure off a lot of people who might be worried about gathering but feel like they have to.

Most people do want to follow the rules if he was a strong leader he'd stand a better chance. No one need sit alone but 3 households let's face it could be a large gathering. I feel so bad for NHS workers who won't get a day off over Xmas.


----------



## StormyThai

Boxer123 said:


> I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary. Why on earth is Boris going ahead with Christmas plans ? Am I missing something ?


Because he is listening to all the idiots that claim that cancelling Christmas is inhumane (not joking, that word has been used in reference to reducing movements over Christmas) rather than listening to the people with actual knowledge 

All this talk of cancelling Christmas is stupid because it's not fecking cancelled!


----------



## catz4m8z

Boxer123 said:


> I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary.


Thats one time I dont think they are being dramatic! I still think that is what alot of people arent realiesing about their tier rating or why the pubs have to be shut...its not just how many cases its how well your health system is coping. Most of the ones is higher population areas are running worringly close to full capacity right now.



Boxer123 said:


> I feel so bad for NHS workers who won't get a day off over Xmas.


TBF that happens every year....they are used to it by now!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Jesthar

Boxer123 said:


> I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary. Why on earth is Boris going ahead with Christmas plans ? Am I missing something ?


I strongly suspect it's so he and his cronies can blame 'people not being sensible' for the already projected rise in cases over winter, rather than provide clear leadership and accept responsibility...

No change there then!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Well, it is the people not being sensible who are spreading the virus.

Honestly, I don’t need anyone to tell me not to socialise over Xmas (or since March).


----------



## niamh123

Hospitality is closing at 6pm in Wales on Xmas day,for what we will have left we may as well be in full lockdown by that date
You can count on one hand how many pubs we have left open here in Swansea,most of them closed their doors when they were told not to sell alcohol and must close by 6pm


----------



## willa

My brother and sister in law, both have Covid


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> My brother and sister in law, both have Covid


So sorry, I hope they don't get too ill with it


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Personally I think its a case of increased inffection rates and more testing that is making figures so high.


I had to laugh at this - not because it is remotely funny, but because it brought to mind something that Trump (yes, he, the medical genius) came out with which creased me up: ''When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing, we would have very few cases, huh?''. I think he went on to say something to the effect that he might ''speak to his guys and tell them to slow down with the testing and reduce the infection rate numbers''. I do miss his words of wisdom.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> I know the news tend to be over dramatic but watching all of the medical professionals coming out saying how January hospitals are going to be over run is scary. Why on earth is Boris going ahead with Christmas plans ? Am I missing something ?


You don't know what to believe: I read one day this week that hospitals are actually less full than at this time last year . . . I wish we could just get straight facts, but it's been like this since the beginning of the year, you read several different/contradictory things each day. No wonder people's mental health is suffering.


----------



## willa

Siskin said:


> So sorry, I hope they don't get too ill with it


They have a 16 month old daughter.
As u can imagine they are most worried Incase they get too unwell to look after her.
In that case we'll take her & just risk catching it !


----------



## MilleD

niamh123 said:


> Hospitality is closing at 6pm in Wales on Xmas day,for what we will have left we may as well be in full lockdown by that date
> You can count on one hand how many pubs we have left open here in Swansea,most of them closed their doors when they were told not to sell alcohol and must close by 6pm


Most of England is already in that position.

We are supposed to be visiting OH parents in Wales on 27th. I have absolutely no idea if that's within the rules or not. But his mum is 80 and dad 87 and he hasn't seen them for months, so we are probably going.

The rules have got so muddy now it's difficult to know what's right anymore. One thing I know is the only place I will have been is the hairdresser's once and he has been to Sainsbury's a few times so it's not like we have been mixing with folk much.


----------



## willa

My Sister is back with us until after Christmas. She lives in London and got a Negative Covid Test today before she came here, but I still feel uneasy about her being here 
After a Negative test u could develop Covid the next day


----------



## Cully

willa said:


> My brother and sister in law, both have Covid


So sorry to hear this and wish them both a complete recovery.


----------



## Calvine

niamh123 said:


> I had a haircut yesterday,I have gone as short as I can as no idea how long our full lockdown will carry on for


The way things are going, we'll all look like Rapunzel by the time the virus disappears.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> The way things are going, we'll all look like Rapunzel by the time the virus disappears.


I had my hair cut last March and daren't go to my hairdresser because the salon is so tiny. My hair was growing so long that last month I cut it with the scissors I use to trim the Schnauzer boys fur. It looks a bit lop sided but I'd rather that and stay virus free than lying in a hospital bed suffering from Covid but with a nice hair do


----------



## Blackadder

Calvine said:


> I had to laugh at this - not because it is remotely funny, but because it brought to mind something that Trump (yes, he, the medical genius) came out with which creased me up: ''When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing, we would have very few cases, huh?''. I think he went on to say something to the effect that he might ''speak to his guys and tell them to slow down with the testing and reduce the infection rate numbers''. I do miss his words of wisdom.


I remember that &, to be fair, he did have a point. Until fairly recently only those with symptoms were being tested, then mass testing was introduced which identified those who were asymptomatic who wouldn't have been discovered before. I read somewhere that approx 33% of the positive tests were asymptomatic so, now we are finding those it's inevitable that case numbers will go up.
I'm not particularly interested in case numbers, hospitalisations are more important IMO... are admissions due to Covid increasing dramatically? I've looked & seen conflicting data. Some are saying that hospitals are in no worse shape than they were this time last year & that they are always "under pressure" during the winter due to Flu & other respiratory diseases peaking. Others are saying it's going to be a disaster, hospitals are full & are going to be overwhelmed.... both sides can't be right!
Add in the constantly changing, irrational rules & is it any wonder the public are confused/given up/stopped listening & have decided to use their own judgement as to what is safe for them...rightly or wrongly!

BTW since I mentioned Flu, where is it? For a disease that kills around 11000 a year on average it's pretty much non-existant this year!


----------



## Boxer123

Blackadder said:


> I remember that &, to be fair, he did have a point. Until fairly recently only those with symptoms were being tested, then mass testing was introduced which identified those who were asymptomatic who wouldn't have been discovered before. I read somewhere that approx 33% of the positive tests were asymptomatic so, now we are finding those it's inevitable that case numbers will go up.
> I'm not particularly interested in case numbers, hospitalisations are more important IMO... are admissions due to Covid increasing dramatically? I've looked & seen conflicting data. Some are saying that hospitals are in no worse shape than they were this time last year & that they are always "under pressure" during the winter due to Flu & other respiratory diseases peaking. Others are saying it's going to be a disaster, hospitals are full & are going to be overwhelmed.... both sides can't be right!
> Add in the constantly changing, irrational rules & is it any wonder the public are confused/given up/stopped listening & have decided to use their own judgement as to what is safe for them...rightly or wrongly!
> 
> BTW since I mentioned Flu, where is it? For a disease that kills around 11000 a year on average it's pretty much non-existant this year!


I suppose the higher uptake of the flu jab and social distancing, increased hand washing means that hopefully less flu this year.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> less flu this year.


 I believe that to date there has been less flu (altho' according to my neighbour, her GP sent a text that there was a shortage of flu vaccine).


----------



## Cully

I think with SD and face coverings being the norm long term, we should see much less of many of the usual cold and flu type illnesses that normally prevail.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> My brother and sister in law, both have Covid


I'm sorry to hear this, hope they will be OK and will able to stay at home to look after their little girl.


----------



## kittih

Cully said:


> I think with SD and face coverings being the norm long term, we should see much less of many of the usual cold and flu type illnesses that normally prevail.


Agree. To be honest we shouldn't be seeing any colds flu or any other person to person transmission of diseases if everyone was socially distancing, being in very well ventilated areas, washing hands and only sticking to their households. The fact that anyone has flu or a cold indicates that they or their household has been in close contact with someone outside their household or not washing their hands before they touch their face.


----------



## Guest

I have a feeling that England will be in lockdown again very soon. Most of the south is in Tier 3 from today (0:01am).


----------



## Blackadder

Cully said:


> I think with SD and face coverings being the norm long term, we should see much less of many of the usual cold and flu type illnesses that normally prevail.


I agree but... I've got to ask  If it's working with colds & Flu so well why is it not working with Covid?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

kittih said:


> Agree. To be honest we shouldn't be seeing any colds flu or any other person to person transmission of diseases if everyone was socially distancing, being in very well ventilated areas, washing hands and only sticking to their households. The fact that anyone has flu or a cold indicates that they or their household has been in close contact with someone outside their household or not washing their hands before they touch their face.


 Normally at this time of year most people I know have or have had a cold but this year hardly anyone has had one.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

*How COVID-19 is changing the cold and flu season*


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> I agree but... I've got to ask  If it's working with colds & Flu so well why is it not working with Covid?


Good point.

I don't think the medical experts are quite sure tbh.

Covid is more easily transmissible apparently.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Blackadder

Magyarmum said:


> *How COVID-19 is changing the cold and flu season*


Interesting article, thank you! It would seem that "they" don't know why, just that it's happening...which is good, Flu + Covid= bad.


----------



## catz4m8z

Now coming to London and the South East!!:Woot

New and improved coronavirus!!:Bored

now with 50% increased infection rate!!:Shifty



(seriously, can we just start the lockdown now rather then infecting all our nearest and dearest for the sake of a turkey dinner??)


----------



## Cully

Blackadder said:


> I agree but... I've got to ask  If it's working with colds & Flu so well why is it not working with Covid?


Maybe if we had always been so vigilant, colds and flu would have been less of a problem much sooner. 
It *is* working with covid, otherwise cases would not have decreased during the first lockdown.
The problem is that there are idiots out there who, for whatever reason, have decided they don't need to follow the guidelines put in place which are designed to protect us all, and think it's ok to carry on as normal, infecting friends, family and anyone unfortunate to be within range, with blithe disregard to the consequences.
Plus of course, there is still such a lot to learn about covid, as demonstrated by the appearance of this new variant. It's early days compared with our knowledge about colds and flu.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> Now coming to London and the South East!!:Woot
> 
> New and improved coronavirus!!:Bored
> 
> now with 50% increased infection rate!!:Shifty
> 
> (seriously, can we just start the lockdown now rather then infecting all our nearest and dearest for the sake of a turkey dinner??)


Potentially there could be a reversal of rules to allow households to mix over Christmas, media speculation is following Cabinet meetings today, Johnson at the 4pm press conference could issue new new advice on relaxing the restrictions over Christmas. Will he go as far as to U turn over them though? Oh just breaking London and SE are expected to go into tier 4.


----------



## Boxer123

3dogs2cats said:


> Potentially there could be a reversal of rules to allow households to mix over Christmas, media speculation is following Cabinet meetings today, Johnson at the 4pm press conference could issue new new advice on relaxing the restrictions over Christmas. Will he go as far as to U turn over them though? Oh just breaking London and SE are expected to go into tier 4.


Boris do a U turn never !


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Boxer123 said:


> Boris do a U turn never !


  I think he has got his hair on backwards because he just doesnt know which way to go!


----------



## willa

Will Tier 4 cover entire London and South East I wonder ?
What about areas currently stil in Tier 2 ?


----------



## Boxer123

3dogs2cats said:


> I think he has got his hair on backwards because he just doesnt know which way to go!


----------



## Cully

I think he's relying on us to make the decision for him, which many if us have done already.
I haven't seen any family since before last Christmas, and although it breaks my heart to not be seeing them again yet, I'd like our next meeting to be a joyful occasion and not a funeral.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Another briefing from the PM at 4pm, maybe about another lockdown after Christmas.


----------



## Boxer123

Looks like the south east may be under tighter restrictions due to the new strain.


----------



## Magyarmum

willa said:


> Will Tier 4 cover entire London and South East I wonder ?
> What about areas currently stil in Tier 2 ?


Juist announced .....

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/famil...F6uDssl7yiMkJ5sgqGYkgatCZwXxQkMueEV-FtFDBhyKg

*Families In London, South East, And East Banned From Meeting At Christmas As Areas Moved Into New Tier 4*


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> Juist announced .....
> 
> https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/famil...F6uDssl7yiMkJ5sgqGYkgatCZwXxQkMueEV-FtFDBhyKg
> 
> *Families In London, South East, And East Banned From Meeting At Christmas As Areas Moved Into New Tier 4*


Feck! I dont undersand it. If all London is tier 4, we can meet up with another borough? We were planning on meeting outside but one lot will be coming from East london.


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> Feck! I dont undersand it. If all London is tier 4, we can meet up with another borough? We were planning on meeting outside but one lot will be coming from East london.


I think there is a ban on any travel in tier 4. Dont think you can meet up with anyone? I think thats what I've read


----------



## kimthecat

HarlequinCat said:


> I think there is a ban on any travel in tier 4. Dont think you can meet up with anyone? I think thats what I've read


Thanks . It gets so confusing. Well thats a shock. Its so last minute .  I will miss seeing my little great nephew, he is 4 and such a joy.


----------



## Siskin

I guess my friends son and family won’t be coming now. They’ve been isolating and getting tests prior to coming down this coming week. All those families that have bought a large turkey. Hope they’ve got freezers.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> Thanks . It gets so confusing. Well thats a shock. Its so last minute .  I will miss seeing my little great nephew, he is 4 and such a joy.


We won't know what the Christmas arrangements are until Monday. The only clue we've been given is that it's going to be a "little Christmas" but we already know New Year's Eve celebrations have been cancelled. Dog owners will be pleased there'll be no fireworks either!


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> I think there is a ban on any travel in tier 4. Dont think you can meet up with anyone? I think thats what I've read


Bubbles can continue and as has been allowed throughout this all. I can visit my terminally ill friend


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> All those families that have bought a large turkey. Hope they've got freezers.


:BangheadAt least the foxes and stray cats won't go hungry!


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I guess my friends son and family won't be coming now. They've been isolating and getting tests prior to coming down this coming week. All those families that have bought a large turkey. Hope they've got freezers.


 you've had such a difficult year too.



Magyarmum said:


> We won't know what the Christmas arrangements are until Monday. The only clue we've been given is that it's going to be a "little Christmas" but we already know New Year's Eve celebrations have been cancelled. Dog owners will be pleased there'll be no fireworks either!


We still get fireworks here , though goodness knows why as Nov 5th and Diwali are long over. New years eve is the worst.



rona said:


> Bubbles can continue and as has been allowed throughout this all. I can visit my terminally ill friend


Thats good news. How is your friend doing . he is lucky to have you.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Its so last minute I feel sorry for the people in your areas @kimthecat. I dont think you can form Christmas bubbles but you can meet one other person outside who is in your original bubble, eg support bubble

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...london-south-east-christmas-b1776577.html?amp

This has some info that could be helpful


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> Boris do a U turn never !


You may have to eat those words


----------



## kimthecat

HarlequinCat said:


> Its so last minute I feel sorry for the people in your areas @kimthecat. I dont think you can form Christmas bubbles but you can meet one other person outside who is in your original bubble, eg support bubble
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tier-4-travel-london-south-east-christmas-b1776577.html?amp
> 
> This has some info that could be helpful


Thanks will check that out.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> I think there is a ban on any travel in tier 4


 Heavens, I just picked up my friend's keys today as she is off to France tomorrow and I said I would feed her psychotic cat! They've booked and paid for the ferry. I noticed a few shops yesterday having huge sales (Gap and H&M I saw) and I sort of wondered if they suspected a lockdown in January so thought they'd flog the stuff now. Blimey O'Reilly!


----------



## rona

Well OH is in Wales visiting (socially distanced) his father for the first time in nearly a year, he's due back tomorrow, but they are going into lockdown from midnight!

What happens when he tries to get home in the morning? 6 hours notice they've given. There must be loads in his position.

Drive tonight tired or be stopped by police tomorrow?



kimthecat said:


> Thats good news. How is your friend doing . he is lucky to have you.


He's still on his feet, so can get out into his garden which he loves. Just had some radiotherapy for pain relief. According to the last prediction, he's only about 4 months left


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Calvine said:


> Heavens, I just picked up my friend's keys today as she is off to France tomorrow and I said I would feed her psychotic cat! They've booked and paid for the ferry. I noticed a few shops yesterday having huge sales (Gap and H&M I saw) and I sort of wondered if they suspected a lockdown in January so thought they'd flog the stuff now. Blimey O'Reilly!


Does the cat live in tier 4? you should be fine to still go and fed him/her as that would count as welfare, I think its just guidance on travel anyway so you wont end up eating your Turkey behind bars!


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> Thanks will check that out.


And is it a U Turn or adapting to the changing climate?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> Heavens, I just picked up my friend's keys today as she is off to France tomorrow and I said I would feed her psychotic cat! They've booked and paid for the ferry. I noticed a few shops yesterday having huge sales (Gap and H&M I saw) and I sort of wondered if they suspected a lockdown in January so thought they'd flog the stuff now. Blimey O'Reilly!


Non essential travel - looking after an animal is essential, surely?


----------



## Calvine

3dogs2cats said:


> Does the cat live in tier 4? you should be fine to still go and fed him/her as that would count as welfare, I think its just guidance on travel anyway so you wont end up eating your Turkey behind bars!


They are not sure whether they will be able to go is what they are saying. Yes, they are in London.


----------



## Dave S




----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Heavens, I just picked up my friend's keys today as she is off to France tomorrow and I said I would feed her psychotic cat! They've booked and paid for the ferry. I noticed a few shops yesterday having huge sales (Gap and H&M I saw) and I sort of wondered if they suspected a lockdown in January so thought they'd flog the stuff now. Blimey O'Reilly!


Should she be going, BJ said unless you have to (like for work) you should not be traveling abroad.


----------



## Dave S

I know it is a bit of a pain the new tier 4 but after all we have been through this year and having to adapt to a new way of living I don't think it unreasonable to follow the guide lines for ours and other peoples safety. I shall miss Christmas with my sons and partners and the grandchildren but if that's what it takes to keep them safe then so be it.


----------



## Guest

I think the new tier 4 is needed, instead of putting the whole of England in lockdown certain areas in which people insist on breaking the rules get locked down. Sorry if what I said sounds harsh.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Calvine said:


> They are not sure whether they will be able to go is what they are saying. Yes, they are in London.


Oh right I see, so in tier 4 its actually law that no-one travels abroad? Your poor friend to get landed with this on the day before traveling ! Although not much comfort they should get their money back from ferry booking shouldn`t they if they are prevented from traveling by law?


----------



## catz4m8z

TBH though if this strain is really so much more virulent then its going to get round to everyone eventually. I mean its a really small country and we are all kinda packed in here! Not as if the virus is going to reach the Surrey border and just stop.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> TBH though if this strain is really so much more virulent then its going to get round to everyone eventually. I mean its a really small country and we are all kinda packed in here! Not as if the virus is going to reach the Surrey border and just stop.


 Exactly, even with a lock down its not going to stop spreading, we are a tiny country and people many people travel for work. We are tier 2 here but over the border is tier 3, the amount of people screeching about `those in tier 3 coming here infecting us` but where do they think most of the doctors, vets, teachers and shop workers come from? And if they are that worried maybe they should stop ordering stuff online cos it a sure fact those delivery vans and drivers arent just serving this area!


----------



## Guest

Calvine said:


> Heavens, I just picked up my friend's keys today as she is off to France tomorrow and I said I would feed her psychotic cat! They've booked and paid for the ferry. I noticed a few shops yesterday having huge sales (Gap and H&M I saw) and I sort of wondered if they suspected a lockdown in January so thought they'd flog the stuff now. Blimey O'Reilly!


Your friend would be breaking the rules in France. T*he FCDO advises against all but essential travel to:*


the whole of France based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks. Check separate travel advice pages for overseas territories of France.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/france


----------



## Calvine

3dogs2cats said:


> Oh right I see, so in tier 4 its actually law that no-one travels abroad? Your poor friend to get landed with this on the day before traveling ! Although not much comfort they should get their money back from ferry booking shouldn`t they if they are prevented from traveling by law?


It's crazy - they are leaving in 24 hours. I imagine whoever they booked with should have updated their website to make things clear. I remember they were there about six months ago and had a hard time getting back as ferries and flights were being cancelled right, left and centre.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> It's crazy - they are leaving in 24 hours. I imagine whoever they booked with should have updated their website to make things clear. I remember they were there about six months ago and had a hard time getting back as ferries and flights were being cancelled right, left and centre.


Seems crazy to book to go back then, surely?

I'd wait until the pandemic is over.


----------



## Blackadder

So, 2-3 days after putting London & the Sth east into lockdown...Ooops, sorry Tier 3  They are now placed into Tier 4?? How about giving the new restrictions a chance before this?
I might have mentioned flip-flopping earlier in this thread & it's illustrated perfectly here......
Whats the betting on most/all of the country being in "tier 4" before Christmas day?


----------



## rona

Blackadder said:


> Whats the betting on most/all of the country being in "tier 4" before Christmas day?


I for one am not taking that bet


----------



## Guest

I would prefer that England goes into a hard lockdown and here is why, in my opinion it is the only way we are all going to get on top of this virus and this new strain. The hopes of the vaccine doing anything is going to take time. I know it sounds hard but people are not abiding to the rules and that is fact, look at the numbers of infection. Northern Ireland has not long entered into a 6 week lockdown.

The UK should have stayed in lock down the first time around for 3 to 6 weeks more or at least until the numbers got lower.

There's 3 choices at the moment hope and pray the vaccine helps but this will take time, have a hard lockdown like other countries have entered into this week and help the NHS admissions lower or just hope for the best like we are doing at the moment with these tier systems and more people get infected and die and put a strain on the NHS.


----------



## catz4m8z

Blackadder said:


> So, 2-3 days after putting London & the Sth east into lockdown...Ooops, sorry Tier 3  They are now placed into Tier 4?? How about giving the new restrictions a chance before this?
> I might have mentioned flip-flopping earlier in this thread & it's illustrated perfectly here......
> Whats the betting on most/all of the country being in "tier 4" before Christmas day?


I think the 'flip flopping' is inevitable though....we arent dealing with a situation that hasnt changed, its changing all the time.
A couple of days ago the news reported that the new strain was 50% more virulent, they are now saying its 70% more virulent! We just have to adapt to circumstances as they happen.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If only they had a crystal ball


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Guest

*Queues at London train stations as crowds flee the capital before tough Tier 4 restrictions come into force*

Travellers at St Pancras station were told that social distancing "will not be possible" due to the volume of people on board, and those that felt "uncomfortable" should not stay on the train.

By 7pm on Saturday evening, there were no trains available online from several London stations including Paddington, Kings Cross and Euston.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...ations-tier-4-covid-restrictions-b394242.html


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sensible 

And people wonder why the virus is spreading.


----------



## Guest

Absolutely horrifying looking at how busy the train stations are in London. Can only imagine how bad it is on the trains.


----------



## lorilu

rawpawsrus said:


> Absolutely horrifying looking at how busy the train stations are in London. Can only imagine how bad it is on the trains.


That's about to end, according to this story, posted just 6 minutes ago. London and southeast Britain is headed for another lock down.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...-a-strict-lockdown/ar-BB1c4vvJ?ocid=Peregrine

_Facing a new, and potentially more contagious, variant of the coronavirus, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is implementing lockdown measures in London and throughout southeast England that include a ban on holiday gatherings outside immediate households.

The latest lockdown is the country's strictest since March, and will go into effect on Sunday. It will be reviewed again on December 30,_


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> That's about to end, according to this story, posted just 6 minutes ago. London and southeast Britain is headed for another lock down.


Yes it was announced at 4pm uk time.
That's why they're fleeing London.
I know several people who left the city just before the first lockdown and haven't gone back at all yet.


----------



## willa

Thankfully I got out of London on Thursday ( with a Negative test ) The train from Paddington Station was near on empty.
Looking at photos of Paddington Station and other London stations today.. well ... ‍♀‍♀‍♀
Sense of dejavue like we’ve rewound back to March again ‍♀


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> Yes it was announced at 4pm uk time.
> That's why they're fleeing London.
> I know several people who left the city just before the first lockdown and haven't gone back at all yet.


Where do they stay? Second homes?


----------



## Guest

MilleD said:


> Where do they stay? Second homes?


Reading the news article I posted some people are going to their parents and grand parents.


----------



## Guest

lorilu said:


> That's about to end, according to this story, posted just 6 minutes ago. London and southeast Britain is headed for another lock down.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...-a-strict-lockdown/ar-BB1c4vvJ?ocid=Peregrine
> 
> _Facing a new, and potentially more contagious, variant of the coronavirus, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is implementing lockdown measures in London and throughout southeast England that include a ban on holiday gatherings outside immediate households.
> 
> The latest lockdown is the country's strictest since March, and will go into effect on Sunday. It will be reviewed again on December 30,_


People fleeing London to get away from being locked down was what was happening last night hence why the trains stations in London got busy. Reading the news article I posted some people are heading to their parents and some are heading to their grandparents out of London. How do they know that they don't have the virus (those fleeing London) and aren't going to spread it on further and put their parents or grandparents at risk? How do they know no one on the train they boarded didn't have it either? Madness


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## rona

OH is breaking Wales lockdown to drive home. He has nowhere to stay in Wales and I think it's classed as essential travel to go home

I wonder how many times he'll get stopped by police? They are pretty hot in Wales on English number plates


----------



## LittleEms

The pictures of London are crazy! My sister actually got home 24 hours before the announcement as she had a medical appointment here with her specialist. She’s lucky it wasn’t cancelled as they’re starting to do that again too. I guess she’s going to be here for the indefinite future as she’s usually in London!


----------



## tabelmabel

People will just go where they want to go. I cant see how they can possibly enforce this crazy situation.

Everyone planning to visit folks has now not got time to get presents in the post. Some folk have bought Christmas food for 8 people, others wont have any (expecting to eat elsewhere)

It is just ridiculous to have left the announcement til yesterday. What were they thinking?

For many of us, it makes no difference but to many thousands of others this is heartbreaking news.

I just headed to my local supermarket late last night to pick up the last food bits as i expect it will be mobbed later this week with folk panic buying stuff for a christmas they werent expecting.

I know they talk about the new variant and science changing and all that. Well, funnily enough, i have never had any psychic abilities before but - when they came up with the stupid 'save christmas plan' in the first place, i guessed they would lock down right over the schools' christmas holidays.

I wasnt totally right, but not far wide of the mark. So i prepared for that with my shopping and such like. It was obvious cases were rising and christmas had to be different.

It was very mean of the government to raise folks' hopes and then dash them so cruelly at short notice like this.

If i guessed this would happen, im sure they _knew._


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> Where do they stay? Second homes?


One has a second home the rest are with family. 
The advantage of working from home, you can be anywhere.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Seems crazy to book to go back then, surely?
> 
> I'd wait until the pandemic is over.


 I've not heard from them today to say they have cancelled their plans, so I'm guessing they are still going. And he has a sister who is going to Poland today . . . or thinks she is. I thought non-essential travel was definitely a no?


----------



## LittleEms

Calvine said:


> I've not heard from them today to say they have cancelled their plans, so I'm guessing they are still going. And he has a sister who is going to Poland today . . . or thinks she is. I thought non-essential travel was definitely a no?


I believe in London all travel abroad is banned unless it's for work?


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> t is just ridiculous to have left the announcement til yesterday.


 I'm sure they said about week ago that there was a new and fast-spreading mutant virus. Even those few extra days would have been a help. It is terribly sad - many High St businesses depend on that last week before Christmas when people are spending millions a minute.


----------



## Calvine

LittleEms said:


> I believe in London all travel abroad is banned unless it's for work?


 I thought non-essential travel was banned, but they still seem to think they are going. We shall see, I guess.


----------



## Arny

Exactly @tabelmabel 
Why they didn't just say have a low key Christmas this year, none of this inflammatory language of 'Christmas is cancelled' which wound me up and that's with us knowing we'd be one household alone this year anyway.
This won't have helped anyone's state of mind.

Now you get to see people for one day in other tiers, how many will be driving home drunk?


----------



## Boxer123

My sister is in tier 2 as am I. Am I correct she can still travel to us she is my support bubble otherwise we will both be sat on our own for Xmas.


----------



## Guest

These are the new Tier 4 rules: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> 'Christmas is cancelled'


Yes, that has really irritated me too . . . the way the papers make a meal of everything.


----------



## Guest

Boxer123 said:


> My sister is in tier 2 as am I. Am I correct she can still travel to us she is my support bubble otherwise we will both be sat on our own for Xmas.


This should answer your question:

*Travelling to a tier 4 area from a tier 1, 2 or 3 area*
You should not travel into a Tier 4 area from another part of the UK, other than for reasons such as:


travel to work where you cannot work from home
travel to education and for caring responsibilities
to visit those in your support bubble - or your childcare bubble for childcare
to attend hospital, GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
You should continue to practise safe behaviours on public transport:


plan ahead, check for disruption before you leave, and avoid the busiest routes, as well as busy times
avoid making unnecessary stops during your journey
avoid sharing a car with people not in your household
keep your distance from other people when you travel, where possible
wash or sanitise your hands regularly


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> Reading the news article I posted some people are going to their parents and grand parents.





Arny said:


> One has a second home the rest are with family.
> The advantage of working from home, you can be anywhere.


Surely staying with other family is totally against the rules? Unless it's a support bubble.

No wonder it's bloody spreading.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> I know several people who left the city just before the first lockdown and haven't gone back at all yet.


 It's been so long they may have forgotten where they live.

@rawpawsrus: what about travelling abroad _from_ tier 4? I would imagine it's a no with effect from now and I understand that the Netherlands are not allowing any flights from UK.


----------



## Boxer123

rawpawsrus said:


> This should answer your question:
> 
> *Travelling to a tier 4 area from a tier 1, 2 or 3 area*
> You should not travel into a Tier 4 area from another part of the UK, other than for reasons such as:
> 
> 
> travel to work where you cannot work from home
> travel to education and for caring responsibilities
> to visit those in your support bubble - or your childcare bubble for childcare
> to attend hospital, GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
> You should continue to practise safe behaviours on public transport:
> 
> 
> plan ahead, check for disruption before you leave, and avoid the busiest routes, as well as busy times
> avoid making unnecessary stops during your journey
> avoid sharing a car with people not in your household
> keep your distance from other people when you travel, where possible
> wash or sanitise your hands regularly


But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> We are supposed to be visiting OH parents in Wales on 27th. I have absolutely no idea if that's within the rules or not. But his mum is 80 and dad 87 and he hasn't seen them for months, so we are probably going.
> 
> The rules have got so muddy now it's difficult to know what's right anymore. One thing I know is the only place I will have been is the hairdresser's once and he has been to Sainsbury's a few times so it's not like we have been mixing with folk much.


So now the only possible day we could go to Wales is Christmas Day. But it really isn't wise. OH is having difficulty coming to terms with this though in case it's his dad's last Christmas.

But it would mean 6 hours driving, the risk of taking the virus to them and I really don't think it's worth the risk.

If we knew what was coming up in the new year I think it would be easier to make decisions, but as it's a moving feast, it's pretty impossible.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


If she is your support bubble I don't see a problem.


----------



## Guest

Boxer123 said:


> But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


Tier 2 rules and guidance:- https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-2-high-alert#travelling-out-of-a-tier-2-area


----------



## Lurcherlad

Arny said:


> Exactly @tabelmabel
> Why they didn't just say have a low key Christmas this year, none of this inflammatory language of 'Christmas is cancelled' which wound me up and that's with us knowing we'd be one household alone this year anyway.
> This won't have helped anyone's state of mind.
> 
> Now you get to see people for one day in other tiers, how many will be driving home drunk?


Well, hopefully none of them will drink and drive!

Honestly, the biggest reason we're in this current mess is down to people thinking the rules/laws don't apply to them.



Boxer123 said:


> But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


Yes, as you are bubbled.

This is from government website for Tier 2

*Meeting family and friends*
*Meeting indoors*
You can only meet socially with friends and family indoors who you either:


live with
have formed a support bubble with
Unless a legal exemption applies.

'Indoors' means any indoor setting, including:


private homes
other indoor venues such as pubs and restaurants


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> Surely staying with other family is totally against the rules? Unless it's a support bubble.


Like I said, for the people I know, this was before the first lockdown as many were already told by work to work from home. They haven't been back yet.
Yes they likely contributed to the spread back then but as far as I remember they didn't break any rules and there certainly weren't any 'support bubbles' back then.


----------



## Magyarmum

I don't know how this will affect my DIL as she's in Edinburgh at the moment supporting her mother who has ongoing medical conditions. 

Does anyone know whether she'll be able to travel back home to Falmouth for Christmas?


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I don't know how this will affect my DIL as she's in Edinburgh at the moment supporting her mother who has ongoing medical conditions.
> 
> Does anyone know whether she'll be able to travel back home to Falmouth for Christmas?


Isn't travel between Scotland and the rest of the UK off at the moment? Or did I read that wrong?

There is so much info flying around...


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I don't know how this will affect my DIL as she's in Edinburgh at the moment supporting her mother who has ongoing medical conditions.
> 
> Does anyone know whether she'll be able to travel back home to Falmouth for Christmas?


I think is the current situation


----------



## Happy Paws2

All this fusing around, people confessed, BJ is really making a mess of it. I don't why he doesn't have a complete lockdown for a while, then everyone will know where they stand.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Boxer123 said:


> But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


Boxer123, don't get worrying about the change to the Christmas rules and tiers! If you and your sister have formed a support bubble you class as one household and can spend as many days and nights as you like with each other, that has not changed.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I think is the current situation


Thanks for the information.

It looks as though my son and granddaughter will be spending Christmas without her. Luckily my son does all the cooking so at least they'll have a proper Christmas dinner!


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> But we are both tier 2 so is that ok so confusing. Also she is my support not Christmas bubble.


It is allowed. I'm in tier 3 and see my parents every Saturday to walk the dogs as they are my support bubble. At the moment they are also in tier 3 but it doesn't matter if it changes. You count as one household so it's the same as if you lived full time with them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> All this fusing around, people confessed, BJ is really making a mess of it. I don't why he doesn't have a complete lockdown for a while, then everyone will know where they stand.


I think people would be less confused if they just read the rules pertaining to them on the government website tbh.


----------



## Guest

I see two European countries so far have halted air traffic from the UK following the new strain discovery.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...following-new-virus-strain-discovery-12168042


----------



## Cully

I have had more :Jawdrop moments in the last year than the previous 60+.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I have had more :Jawdrop moments in the last year than the previous 60+.


It does seem the epitome of the old Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times"


----------



## tabelmabel

Magyarmum said:


> Does anyone know whether she'll be able to travel back home to Falmouth for Christmas?


Im afraid not. No cross border travel is permitted, except for a limited number of exceptions.

https://www.gov.scot/news/new-guidance-issued-for-the-festive-period/


----------



## Dave S

Am I reading too much into what was not said by Boris yesterday.

This new strain was first noted in Kent.

Could they be saying that it may have been brought in by illegal immigrants coming across the channel?
Has anyone noted if there are variants in different countries?


----------



## catz4m8z

Dave S said:


> Am I reading too much into what was not said by Boris yesterday.
> 
> This new strain was first noted in Kent.
> 
> Could they be saying that it may have been brought in by illegal immigrants coming across the channel?
> Has anyone noted if there are variants in different countries?


I suppose its possible....equally possible that it just mutated here because there is a dense population. It wouldnt really matter either way, viruses mutate all the time, esp this kind.

Just reading Youtube comments on some news articles and OMG....the level of stupidity is astounding. Lots of people 'fighting the system' and refusing to stay away from friends and family for xmas. Coz the government cant tell them what to do, besides which we all know its a conspiracy and the virus isnt real!:Banghead Seriously I pity the government trying to get through to knuckle dragging t**ts like that...and its the rest of us who suffer for their moronic, selfish, brainless opinions.


----------



## Blackadder

Dave S said:


> Am I reading too much into what was not said by Boris yesterday.
> 
> This new strain was first noted in Kent.
> 
> Could they be saying that it may have been brought in by illegal immigrants coming across the channel?
> Has anyone noted if there are variants in different countries?


I don't think they have a clue where it's come from.

As to your question about variants, from what I've read there are around 12,000 different mutations documented. So much so that scientists can recognise which part of the world the test sample came from! That's as I understand it.


----------



## willa

So hard my brother, wife and their 16 month old will be Day 9 of isolating after positive Covid test. on Christmas Day.
Is that long enough for them to be negative ?
We would Love to see them on Christmas Day ( they are also Tier 2, 20 min drive from us ) and that would only mean 2 households


----------



## Dave S

catz4m8z said:


> I
> 
> Just reading Youtube comments on some news articles and OMG....the level of stupidity is astounding. Lots of people 'fighting the system' and refusing to stay away from friends and family for xmas. Coz the government cant tell them what to do, besides which we all know its a conspiracy and the virus isnt real!:Banghead Seriously I pity the government trying to get through to knuckle dragging t**ts like that...and its the rest of us who suffer for their moronic, selfish, brainless opinions.


Know what you mean, a knuckle dragger on our local Facebook page claims he has emailed all members of parliament asking about them breaching our human rights as we are in Tier 4 and are not supposed to visit anyone etc. He has been called many things on there and he has responded with loads of abuse.

_I would like to have it explained to me exactly how the British government are upholding the latest covid-19 rules while staying within the confines of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, please.
If you have any common sense you will be able to see that the most recent Covid-19 "rules" are breaching the Universal Declaration of human rights Article 13:

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

The definition of Freedom is: the power or right to act, speak or think as one wants
(That has been taken away from us)
Regardless of the British government passing the new laws, they cannot breach our human rights.
(they are doing this by threatening us with fines if we are found social interacting with others etc)_​


----------



## Boxer123

Jobeth said:


> It is allowed. I'm in tier 3 and see my parents every Saturday to walk the dogs as they are my support bubble. At the moment they are also in tier 3 but it doesn't matter if it changes. You count as one household so it's the same as if you lived full time with them.


Thank you


----------



## ForestWomble

Am I right in thinking that as my parents and I are in a support bubble and in tier 2, they can still pop round Christmas Eve? (won't be coming in, just going to take the dogs for a walk and do a present exchange.)


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> Am I right in thinking that as my parents and I are in a support bubble and in tier 2, they can still pop round Christmas Eve? (won't be coming in, just going to take the dogs for a walk and do a present exchange.)


Yea that is fine it's so confusing isn't it.


----------



## Jobeth

ForestWomble said:


> Am I right in thinking that as my parents and I are in a support bubble and in tier 2, they can still pop round Christmas Eve? (won't be coming in, just going to take the dogs for a walk and do a present exchange.)


Yes as you count as one household. They could stay if they wanted to and you could stay with them.


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> Yea that is fine it's so confusing isn't it.


It certainly is. Thank you.


----------



## ForestWomble

Jobeth said:


> Yes as you count as one household. They could stay if they wanted to and you could stay with them.


Thank you


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> So hard my brother, wife and their 16 month old will be Day 9 of isolating after positive Covid test. on Christmas Day.
> Is that long enough for them to be negative ?
> We would Love to see them on Christmas Day ( they are also Tier 2, 20 min drive from us ) and that would only mean 2 households


No. Stay home, and they should continue to isolate/quarantine for 14 days. If you go there you will have to isolate/quarantine for 14 days yourself.

Just stay home. Stop the spread.

Why can't people understand this?

ETA Sorry, if that sounds rude. But really, you already know the answer. Stay home. Go see them the next week.


----------



## Magyarmum

St Pancras Station yesterday evening ......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340387810319200258


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> St Pancras Station yesterday evening ......
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340387810319200258




The worry is that they take the variant of covid all round the country far quicker then if it spread by more natural means


----------



## kimthecat

:Hilarious


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> No. Stay home, and they should continue to isolate/quarantine for 14 days. If you go there you will have to isolate/quarantine for 14 days yourself.


In the uk isolation is 10 days now.


----------



## rona

One hospital, one tier 4 area, 60 new covid patients in 24hours


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> One hospital, one tier 4 area, 60 new covid patients in 24hours




Where was that?


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> In the uk isolation is 10 days now.


I wouldn't want to take that chance, myself. If you're going to wait one more day, you might as well wait 5 more. Stop the spread.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Where was that?


Surrey, where OH's BIL works


----------



## Jesthar

Well, I'm safely up at my Mums for Christmas as planned, just a couple of days early. Soon as I heard the announcement I called my NHS doctor relatives (one of whom has been working on the Covid front lines), and they said as neither of us have a bubble and have been living like hermits since this all started, then there was no reason not to go ahead.

Cue a few frantic hours packing bags, cats and car, and I'm now safe at Mums (arrived late Saturday evening before restrictions landed), and planning on doing nothing and going nowhere other than to drop off a couple of presents at a suitable social distance (Tier 3 here). I've also brought my work computer just in case, even though I'm on leave until the New Year.

Otherwise I'd have been amongst those having to go out for emergency supplies, as I'd run down all the perishables due to being away...


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> I wouldn't want to take that chance, myself. If you're going to wait one more day, you might as well wait 5 more. Stop the spread.


Some people can't afford to take one day off work let alone 4 extra than they now have to.
We're being told there's very little risk of transmission after 10 days from the stats, <2% I think I heard and for developing illness after this time too. In fact 'they' say its much more likely you'll be passing it on before you've realised you've got it to begin with.


----------



## MollySmith

We - me and husband plus dog - are meant to be going to the coast, an hour away, for NY. We are tier 2 travelling to tier 2. Seems like we can go but..... the advice is ambiguous as hospitality is open yet the overall advice is stay close to home  Just discussing with agency now, luckily a very small one whom we’ve remained loyal too and with good insurance. We’ve been behaving as we did in March, nothing changed for us and no symptoms but I know my home city is taking a dim view of visitors and it’s that uneasy line of economics and being safe. I’m being pragmatic as I can whilst being confused.

My parents in their mid 70s have been to the dentist, hair cuts, got some stuff valued and sold... stuff I haven’t done so we have said no to Xmas day meal indoors. They’ve just said no Xmas presents - bit late as both brother and I have got them a gift. Oh well!


----------



## willa

European countries announcing they are banning flights from UK .

Highest ever number is cases recorded yesterday wtf


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> St Pancras Station yesterday evening ......
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340387810319200258


I saw that... I can't say I think much to the government and their handling but there's a helluva lot of people who need a kick up the arse. There is this awful thread summed up as 'let's blame it on someone else'.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340383304143540227
Conversely this - I believe that Rev Richard Coles lost his partner recently too and will be on his own.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> St Pancras Station yesterday evening ......
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340387810319200258


Utterly disgusting selfish t**ts.


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> Some people can't afford to take one day off work let alone 4 extra than they now have to.
> We're being told there's very little risk of transmission after 10 days from the stats, <2% I think I heard and for developing illness after this time too. In fact 'they' say its much more likely you'll be passing it on before you've realised you've got it to begin with.


We aren't talking about work. We're talking about visiting a household with a positive covid member. And the fact that it can be passed on before symptoms show is another reason to quarantine for 14 days, for those who have needlessly exposed themselves to other people known to have covid.

So if you want to talk about work, the member who started this particular discussion maybe "can't afford not to go to work" after being in a household with a known covid positive. How many people can they potentially infect? After selfishly visiting the other household too early.

If people would just stay home, when they can. It's not that hard. Wait five more days. What's the big deal. Because it's Christmas? A date on the calendar. It means nothing, when health (and lives) are at stake.


----------



## willa

No we aren’t visiting my brother & family.

Let’s not turn this thread into an argument please ‍♀


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> If people would just stay home, when they can. It's not that hard. Wait five more days. What's the big deal. Because it's Christmas? A date on the calendar. It means nothing, when health (and lives) are at stake.


They'd be breaking the law if they came out of isolation early anyway but I was just stating fact that in the uk it has now been reduced to 10 days.
Whether anyone agrees with it or not isn't the point, that is the time you are now required to do.

Edit to add, that is until it changes again


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> St Pancras Station yesterday evening ......
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340387810319200258


I saw that as well, I can't believe people can be so selfish. All they are doing is spreading it round the country.

I can't believe people are still risking going to other people houses what ever tier they are in, this new variation of Covid is spreading so fast is it really worth the risk just for one day. Just keep to the people who are in your bubble and keep away from everyone else.


----------



## Guest

Well the UK is shut off from Europe now. Dover closed, Eurotunnel and Eurostar closed, flights banned from the UK to Europe. I hope people don't go silly and empty the supermarkets again panic buying?


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> Well the UK is shut off from Europe now. Dover closed, Eurotunnel and Eurostar closed, flights banned from the UK to Europe. I hope people don't go silly and empty the supermarkets again panic buying?


As someone who lives in the Midlands, I wasn't planning on popping to Europe for supplies so I think I'll be ok....


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> As someone who lives in the Midlands, I wasn't planning on popping to Europe for supplies so I think I'll be ok....


They have stopped freight too. I also can see the virus spreading because of panic buying!


----------



## niamh123

Just seen on the news that Supermarkets could run out of certain foods, all delivery lorries are stuck in France unable to leave to make deliveries to the UK


----------



## Guest

MilleD said:


> As someone who lives in the Midlands, I wasn't planning on popping to Europe for supplies so I think I'll be ok....


All freight has been stopped from leaving Europe to the UK. Point is now people are going to panic buy leaving supermarkets and shops without certain products and foods in them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

As this new strain seems to have started in Kent, maybe it crossed from Europe? 

If only we’d closed our borders in March, like other countries did, when this all started ....

It’s only France who aren’t allowing manned haulage in (currently for 48 hours) containerised goods aren’t affected.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I see Wales have brought forward their new Lockdown.

Seems it’s not so easy to predict what’s going to happen with this virus after all - not just Boris whose third eye isn’t working


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I see Wales have brought forward their new Lockdown.
> 
> Seems it's not so easy to predict what's going to happen with this virus after all - not just Boris whose third eye isn't working


Changed again from the announcement on Saturday?


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Changed again from the announcement on Saturday?


It was on tv this morning so might have been a repeat of Saturday. They were brought forward from 28th to 20th.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> It was on tv this morning so might have been a repeat of Saturday. They were brought forward from 28th to 20th.


Ah ok, yes that was announced on Saturday.

Thanks.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> It was on tv this morning so might have been a repeat of Saturday. They were brought forward from 28th to 20th.


Posted this on Saturday 


rona said:


> Well OH is in Wales visiting (socially distanced) his father for the first time in nearly a year, he's due back tomorrow, but they are going into lockdown from midnight!
> 
> What happens when he tries to get home in the morning? 6 hours notice they've given. There must be loads in his position.
> 
> Drive tonight tired or be stopped by police tomorrow?


You missed one 
He got home fine and no stops by the police, in fact he said he only saw one police car all the way home, much less than normal.
Maybe they were in the towns stopping people shopping


----------



## niamh123

In Wales we had an announcment at around 4pm on Saturday telling us all shops apart from supermarkets would be closing from Saturday evening.The ques for Smiths toys,Argos etc were enormous,police had to be sent to these stores to help with the ques,Smiths toys had to close at around 8pm as the ques were so big.But people here in Swansea have been amazing offering toy's etc to people who hadn't finished their childrens xmas presents


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> As this new strain seems to have started in Kent, maybe it crossed from Europe?
> 
> If only we'd closed our borders in March, like other countries did, when this all started ....
> 
> It's only France who aren't allowing manned haulage in (currently for 48 hours) containerised goods aren't affected.


The new variant has also been found in the Netherlands, Australia and Denmark.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-new-variant-genomics-researcher-answers-key-questions-152381

*Coronavirus new variant - genomics researcher answers key questions*

New infections are going down in Hungary, just over 2000 yesterday compared to over 6000 a week ago. Deaths are still high at 183 and include younger people, as well as the elderly which is rather worrying.


----------



## rona

My area is a lovely green on the covid map, some places even that lime green. However, we are surrounded by a sea of dark blue and red.................IT'S COMING


----------



## HarlequinCat

I've been looking at the newspapers and they do love to cause panic with titles like France closes Eurotunnel and ports to the UK. If that doesn't encourage panic buying I'd be surprised. 

Its only going to be 48 hrs for the ports at least. Yes there will be disruption and a few shelves may be empty for a little while, but it will return to normal pretty quick!

I've heard the strain originated in Europe anyway so not too sure why France is doing this....


----------



## Boxer123

HarlequinCat said:


> I've been looking at the newspapers and they do love to cause panic with titles like France closes Eurotunnel and ports to the UK. If that doesn't encourage panic buying I'd be surprised.
> 
> Its only going to be 48 hrs for the ports at least. Yes there will be disruption and a few shelves may be empty for a little while, but it will return to normal pretty quick!
> 
> I've heard the strain originated in Europe anyway so not too sure why France is doing this....


Thank you for this level headed post my anxiety is through the roof I've banned myself from the news again.


----------



## Siskin

Drat, my Christmas order from Tesco’s comes this afternoon. Hope the panic buyers don’t strip the shelves before my order is put together.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Drat, my Christmas order from Tesco's comes this afternoon. Hope the panic buyers don't strip the shelves before my order is put together.


Just got ours, only frozen peas missing. It was picked just as they opened though


----------



## Psygon

Siskin said:


> Drat, my Christmas order from Tesco's comes this afternoon. Hope the panic buyers don't strip the shelves before my order is put together.


I honestly can't see how people won't panic buy. People will now worry they won't have enough for Xmas and just buy more and more. Sigh.

Maybe I will be surprised.


----------



## Arny

At least it's Christmas and supermarkets are prepared for people buying hoards of food (although maybe not the right kinds), unlike earlier in the year.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had a e-mail from Sainbury's and they have everything I've order, delivery between 11 & 12 this morning.


----------



## Magyarmum

I did my shopping last Friday and anything I either run out of or forgot, I'll just have to live without, because I refuse to go out again until 2021. 

In any case Hungary is closed for business from 2pm Thursday until 5am on Monday. Hopefully because no one can shop the number of new infections should decrease.


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> I've been looking at the newspapers and they do love to cause panic with titles like France closes Eurotunnel and ports to the UK. If that doesn't encourage panic buying I'd be surprised.
> 
> Its only going to be 48 hrs for the ports at least. Yes there will be disruption and a few shelves may be empty for a little while, but it will return to normal pretty quick!
> 
> *I've heard the strain originated in Europe anyway so not too sure why France is doing this.*...


Exactly! Like we are the big bad wolf or something....


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Just got ours, only frozen peas missing. It was picked just as they opened though


Hope they've got plenty of peas at my store, they couldn't deliver any last week and I'm now running short. Oh well, got plenty of sweet corn.



MilleD said:


> Exactly! Like we are the big bad wolf or something....


As far as the French are concerned it really doesn't surprise me, to them we are the big bad wolf


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> As far as the French are concerned it really doesn't surprise me, to them we are the big bad wolf


The Netherlands started it and others followed, You can't blame any of them doing all they can to stop the new virus to going over there, we'd do the same wouldn't we.

_Edited of spelling_


----------



## Guest

I ventured out and the queue at my local supermarket has been getting bigger and bigger, shoppers leaving with trollies full of stuff (not Christmas stuff). Think I will go later on or early tomorrow morning when it is hopefully quieter, I don't like queues. I would do an online shop but there are no free slots for this week, I have a slot booked for next week.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The French have just said, they are working on a way freight can resume.


----------



## daveos

It is a bit to late for Europe to ban travel from UK the new Virus has been detected here around mid September so I read so therefore it has been going on a lot longer it will already be in all European countries if they look hard enough if not all the world and also have heard Brazil reported it 8 months ago so it has been going quite a time now.
Im of work today hope people don't panic buy remember carrots parsnips Brussels sprouts potatoes cauliflower all grow here there is no shortage of these maybe citrus and salads get a bit low but hope people only get what they need it is not pleasant when people get abbusive and shout at supermarket staff it is not their fault blame your fellow human beings.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I think we have to remember that this pandemic is a completely novel occurence and appreciate that everyone, including the current government, is totally committed to minimising mortality and morbidity.
Now as we have been asked to keep this thread free of political debate can we please do that ?


----------



## MilleD

SusieRainbow said:


> I think we have to remember that this pandemic is a completely novel occurence and appreciate that everyone, including the current government, is totally committed to minimising mortality and morbidity.
> Now as we have been asked to keep this thread free of political debate can we please do that ?


Where on earth has it got political?!


----------



## SusieRainbow

MilleD said:


> Where on earth has it got political?!


You're absolutely right, it's the vaccine thread that has blurred into this one and confused me !


----------



## MilleD

SusieRainbow said:


> You're absolutely right, it's the vaccine thread that has blurred into this one and confused me !




Yeah, that one got a bit government bashy.


----------



## Calvine

rawpawsrus said:


> Your friend would be breaking the rules in France.


It is all very odd. They got the sleeper from Portsmouth about midnight and arrived in France early am today. Apparently no questions asked, nothing different . . . not carted off to spend Christmas in the gendarmerie. I am quite surprised.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> It is all very odd. They got the sleeper from Portsmouth about midnight and arrived in France early am today. Apparently no questions asked, nothing different . . . not carted off to spend Christmas in the gendarmerie. I am quite surprised.


So they are allowing trains it? That makes no sense!


----------



## Siskin

I’ve heard that people were going to our branch of waitrose trying to take their large turkeys back. Waitrose, quite rightly, wouldn’t accept them.
I’ve found a very nice (for me) turkey leftovers recipe


----------



## Happy Paws2




----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I've heard that people were going to our branch of waitrose trying to take their large turkeys back. Waitrose, quite rightly, wouldn't accept them.
> I've found a very nice (for me) turkey leftovers recipe


I love turkey leftovers rool


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I love turkey leftovers rool


Me too, I always get a bigger turkey then needed cos of the leftovers. Can't wait for the first turkey sandwich


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> It is all very odd. They got the sleeper from Portsmouth about midnight and arrived in France early am today. Apparently no questions asked, nothing different . . . not carted off to spend Christmas in the gendarmerie. I am quite surprised.


What sleeper?


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> So they are allowing trains it? That makes no sense!


They went on the ferry; I think maybe they just possibly got the last one? I heard at six pm yesterday that France was not allowing UK arrivals, and texted them, but then I got a text late to say they were on board, but half expecting not to be going anywhere.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> What sleeper?


A cabin on the ferry - they left just before midnight and were in France early today (06.30 I think).


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> They went on the ferry; I think maybe they just possibly got the last one? I heard at six pm yesterday that France was not allowing UK arrivals, and texted them, but then I got a text late to say they were on board, but half expecting not to be going anywhere.


A sleeper on a ferry? To get to France? They must be posh


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Me too, I always get a bigger turkey then needed cos of the leftovers. Can't wait for the first turkey sandwich


With real butter and just a touch of salt. Mmmmmmm....


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> A cabin on the ferry - they left just before midnight and were in France early today (06.30 I think).


They were talking to someone on the News this morning saying, that they were allowed on to the ferry then told that they could sleep in their cabins, then this morning go back to their cars and go back home. The ferry was going nowhere.


----------



## catz4m8z

daveos said:


> Im of work today hope people don't panic buy remember carrots parsnips Brussels sprouts potatoes cauliflower all grow here there is no shortage of these maybe citrus and salads get a bit low .


Its weird to think of people panic buying again just coz we might run out of things like lemons and lettuce....which are totally not normal for this country in winter anyways!
I do have to wonder at people leaving their xmas shopping til so late though...I mean the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Surely you would have gotten all your important stuff done much earlier? (maybe that just my Kent brain talking though....as UK is now the leper of Europe so Kent/London is the leper of UK!LOL:Hilarious).


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Me too, I always get a bigger turkey then needed cos of the leftovers. Can't wait for the first turkey sandwich


Thick sliced real bread, one side slathered in mayo, the other in cranberry sauce, and lots of turkey in between 
We have turkey Cesar salad and turkey curry too, plus my freezer will be so empty after all the nibbley bits are taken out, I'll have lots of room for batch cooking and home made turkey ready meals 
I will have a load of vegan stuff to give to my DIL though, which, hopefully, with them both being furloughed, will save them some money in the new year


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> A sleeper on a ferry? To get to France? They must be posh


 I think it was the Cherbourg crossing


Happy Paws2 said:


> They were talking to someone on the News this morning saying, that they were allowed on to the ferry then told that they could sleep in their cabins, then this morning go back to their cars and go back home. The ferry was going nowhere.


 Yes, they had heard that was happening too, but they were allowed through. It was not Calais, not sure where they disembarked.


----------



## Arny

catz4m8z said:


> I do have to wonder at people leaving their xmas shopping til so late though...I mean the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Surely you would have gotten all your important stuff done much earlier?


We've not been shopping for nearly three weeks so our stocks are very low. 
Fridge is pretty much bare.
Oops!!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Siskin said:


> Me too, I always get a bigger turkey then needed cos of the leftovers. Can't wait for the first turkey sandwich


I love a turkey sandwich! We would have our big Christmas lunch and the sandwiches in the evening. I look forward to it every year.

Have to stay here this year at OHs parents (been sort of stuck here since the start) and they looked at me as if I was mad for wanting enough to make a turkey butty


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> Its weird to think of people panic buying again just coz we might run out of things like lemons and lettuce....which are totally not normal for this country in winter anyways!
> I do have to wonder at people leaving their xmas shopping til so late though...I mean the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Surely you would have gotten all your important stuff done much earlier? (maybe that just my Kent brain talking though....as UK is now the leper of Europe so Kent/London is the leper of UK!LOL:Hilarious).


Presents maybe, but don't forget that a lot of people who might get labelled as 'panic buyers' of food are those who were expecting to be elsewhere at Christmas.

I'm blessed in that I had the means to safely get to my Mums a few days earlier than planned, but if I hadn't been able to make it I'd have only had enough fresh food in the house for one more main meal as I'd run down all the supplies due to coming away. And again that wouldn't have been so bad for me, but if you're a family with kids and were supposed be away over Christmas that's potentially a lot of essentials you suddenly need to get in, plus a Christmas day meal you hadn't planned for.


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> Presents maybe, but don't forget that a lot of people who might get labelled as 'panic buyers' of food are those who were expecting to be elsewhere at Christmas.
> .


I think other people are just way more optimistic then me TBH!:Shy I could say its living in the SE or working in a hospital but the truth is Ive always been a 'worst case scenario' person....I wouldnt of made any big plans coz I would have already imagined s*** going sideways!!


----------



## Siskin

We had a bit of a stock up/panic buy last week. Bought a lot of tins and packets up to the limit allowed on deliveries. Then my husband went to Lidl at about 9pm (him, 2 other shoppers and a couple of staff) and bought a lot of stuff for cupboards and freezer. Should see us through for some considerable time


----------



## SusieRainbow

We bought a huge turkey one year when my daughter was small - her first Chrstmas-as both sets of grandparents were coming. It was 1981 and we had heavy snow the week before Christmas meaning none of them could come.
My parents had hardly any food in having expected to be with us and couldn't get to any shops, they were fed up!
My husband very nobly drove up to Sheffield the day after Boxing Day to rescue them, they were so glad to get out of their flat, and we had another Christmas dinner.
Strictly speaking we didn't need a turkey this year as we're having dinner at my daughter's but I insisted that we got a small turkey crown for the freezer at least!


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> Surely you would have gotten all your important stuff done much earlier?


Well yes, I started buying stuff that would keep or be frozen ages ago, but it's the fresh veg, fruit and bakery items I'm getting delivered now. As I rely on it being delivered I'm a bit at their mercy regarding delivery slots. Fortunately I've got one for Wednesday between 2pm - 10pm. Not happy about the time but nothing I can do. I just am glad I have a slot at all.


----------



## Arny

catz4m8z said:


> I think other people are just way more optimistic then me TBH!:Shy I could say its living in the SE or working in a hospital but the truth is Ive always been a 'worst case scenario' person....I wouldnt of made any big plans coz I would have already imagined s*** going sideways!!


No big plans here, just lack of planning


----------



## catz4m8z

Cully said:


> Well yes, I started buying stuff that would keep or be frozen ages ago, but it's the fresh veg, fruit and bakery items I'm getting delivered now. As I rely on it being delivered I'm a bit at their mercy regarding delivery slots. Fortunately I've got one for Wednesday between 2pm - 10pm. Not happy about the time but nothing I can do. I just am glad I have a slot at all.


I dont trust them not to substitute something weird and inexplicable for your average xmas day food items though!:Hilarious
Besides I got my veg, fruit and bakery items sorted ages ago (frozen fruit, part baked bread and we all know that brussel sprouts dont actually go off if you stick them in the fridge!LOL).
......now just waiting for that 'oh s**t!' moment when I suddenly remember what I didnt buy!:Jawdrop


----------



## willa

Another Press Conference this afternoon.


----------



## Arny

catz4m8z said:


> I dont trust them not to substitute something weird and inexplicable for your average xmas day food items though!:Hilarious


I few weeks ago James Martin the chef was on This Morning and said his mum's shop had substituted the mince meat she'd ordered for a packet of twix.


----------



## Cully

Arny said:


> I few weeks ago James Martin the chef was on This Morning and said his mum's shop had substituted the mince meat she'd ordered for a packet of twix.


Yep, weirdest sub was flat leaf parsley for lemongrass. I also got pork scratchings for cashew nuts:Bag Suppose they are a snack!


----------



## daveos

Europe is panicking problem is it is already there could have been there first who knows could have been Brazil South Africa it does not matter should not be a blame game.
We should all put our differences aside and work together we are not in EU anymore it should not be about politics but human lives this is SERIOUS, We test more than other countries in Europe thats why our figures are high and we found the new strain but we were honest now we have become a pariah state not fair as china have never been honest.
All areas of uk should have a full TOTAL lockdown curfew at night shopping for groceries only once a week and checks on people isolating this is the only way get serious with this virus and vaccinate as many as possible 7 days a week then maybe things get better other countries should do similar then it would get better.


----------



## Siskin

I wonder what the press conference is about, stop panic buying perhaps?

I’m a happy bunny, everything came in the delivery and the turkeys not too vast. We can now hibernate in peace


----------



## MilleD

I'm sorry.


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> I few weeks ago James Martin the chef was on This Morning and said his mum's shop had substituted the mince meat she'd ordered for a packet of twix.


Ooh, wonder what they would like smashed up in a pie?


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> I've been looking at the newspapers and they do love to cause panic with titles like France closes Eurotunnel and ports to the UK. If that doesn't encourage panic buying I'd be surprised.
> 
> Its only going to be 48 hrs for the ports at least. Yes there will be disruption and a few shelves may be empty for a little while, but it will return to normal pretty quick!
> 
> I've heard the strain originated in Europe anyway so not too sure why France is doing this....


But lorries are being allowed in with goods - so there shouldn't be any issues yet, surely?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I've got everything except the turkey, which I shall get tomorrow from M&S. I've been getting most of the supplies as I've gone along, got the fresh veg today when I went to get Sheba for the small boy. 

I cannot wait for leftovers...I saw a great recipe on FB for a pie with Branston pickle, turkey, gammon ham and cheese....in layers! Mmmmm. I'm tempted to make it I must say.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Hope they've got plenty of peas at my store, they couldn't deliver any last week and I'm now running short. Oh well, got plenty of sweet corn.
> 
> As far as the French are concerned it really doesn't surprise me, to them we are the big bad wolf


They've never forgiven us for Waterloo!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Lurcherlad said:


> But lorries are being allowed in with goods - so there shouldn't be any issues yet, surely?


I think its because they cant get return to France from the UK, therefore from today no haulier is going to want to come to the UK as they would get stuck here. I expect they will sort out an arrangement for haulage soon but I cant say I blame France in stopping anyone form the UK entering their country.


----------



## Siskin

It won’t effect the deliveries of the vaccine as these arrive on driverless transport (container).


----------



## 3dogs2cats

daveos said:


> Europe is panicking problem is it is already there could have been there first who knows could have been Brazil South Africa it does not matter should not be a blame game.
> We should all put our differences aside and work together we are not in EU anymore it should not be about politics but human lives this is SERIOUS, We test more than other countries in Europe thats why our figures are high and we found the new strain but we were honest now we have become a pariah state not fair as china have never been honest.
> All areas of uk should have a full TOTAL lockdown curfew at night shopping for groceries only once a week and checks on people isolating this is the only way get serious with this virus and vaccinate as many as possible 7 days a week then maybe things get better other countries should do similar then it would get better.


And what about those who shop local and only buy as much as they can carry home, not everyone has a car or storage for a large weekly shop. I`m sure vaccines are being carried out as fast as humanly possible.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I didn’t get my usual priority slot for this week or next so, as well as ordering extra last week, I had to shop this week.

Had I confidence that there would still be anything on the shelves by Wednesday, I would have gone then but decided it was sensible to shop today.

I got everything I needed and with as long a date as I could get on bread, milk and meat etc.

My larder and freezer is full and I have several bake at home baguettes and a pack of 24 loo rolls so should be able to survive for a good while yet if it all goes mad again. 

Given our Tier 4 status, I don’t want to be mixing with the public any more than I can help tbh.

My next delivery is booked for 7th January.


----------



## catz4m8z

3dogs2cats said:


> And what about those who shop local and only buy as much as they can carry home.


would highly recommend a shopping trolley, as a non driver mine is fantastic!

Looks like this strain is being found in more and more countries....as well as bumping up infection rates in other counties now too. I think that if it really spreads as expected then we need to brace ourselves on the global scale as it will probably be worse then the first wave.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> would highly recommend a shopping trolley, as a non driver mine is fantastic!
> 
> Looks like this strain is being found in more and more countries....as well as bumping up infection rates in other counties now too. I think that if it really spreads as expected then we need to brace ourselves on the global scale as it will probably be worse then the first wave.


Oh I love a shopping trolley, dad took the wheels off my mums to make something, she so wasnt happy! Still not convinced I could the whole weeks shopping in one journey, maybe if I rehomed mums cats, which believe me with their demanding ways that seems a very attractive option, I could manage it


----------



## kimthecat

OMG Tier 5 !


----------



## DogLover1981

I saw the news about the mutated strain of COVID-19 and I hope everyone in the UK stays safe this Christmas.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> OMG Tier 5 !


That reminds me of the Simpsons Movie. Wasn't there a Stephen King about a barrier. The Dome or something similar.:Jawdrop


----------



## Happy Paws2

DogLover1981 said:


> I saw the news about the mutated strain of COVID-19 and I hope everyone in the UK stays safe this Christmas.


Thank You..... Hope you are OK and keeping safe as the everyone in the USA, it's is a worry for everyone.


----------



## Dave S

It's difficult to know who to believe sometimes.
At yesterdays Boris conference Grant Shapps said there were 170 trucks in Kent waiting to cross the channel, with a few more in a lorry park nearby.
Today the BBC is reporting there are between 650 and 1500 trucks waiting, and this is in the same news article.

Unfortunately as the ports have been closed pending discussions there are many drivers going to have a late Christmas especially if they have to be tested and await the results before travelling on.
With many countries also banning flights from UK to their countries, and the ports closed it seems like a scene from WW2 when there was thick fog in the Channel - Europe is isolated.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> With many countries also banning flights from UK to their countries, and the ports closed it seems like a scene from WW2 when there was thick fog in the Channel - Europe is isolated.


The UK is the one that's isolated now.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> That reminds me of the Simpsons Movie. Wasn't there a Stephen King about a barrier. The Dome or something similar.:Jawdrop


It was. I read about half the book but it kept getting worse and worse so I never finished it. I ended up reading a spoiler to find out the ending,and when I read the end I was glad I never bothered to finish it.


----------



## Bisbow

I read somewhere that it actually started in USA but we are getting blamed for it because we were honest enough to tell every one

True or not I do not know


----------



## HarlequinCat

This new variation doesn't seem any worse than others?

It is running a bit rampant in the south east mainly because the levels of infection there have been pretty low so far and no one has immunity to it yet. They say its been around since September and is widespread throughout England. But the North arent as in as bad as a position as they were.

There is also only moderate confidence that it is 70% more infectious. Scientists havent had enough data to confirm whether this is true.

We need to just keep doing what we're doing - social distancing, masks and washing hands. Theres not much else that can be done.


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> This new variation doesn't seem any worse than others?
> 
> It is running a bit rampant in the south east mainly because the levels of infection there have been pretty low so far and no one has immunity to it yet. They say its been around since September and is widespread throughout England. But the North arent as in as bad as a position as they were.
> 
> There is also only moderate confidence that it is 70% more infectious. Scientists havent had enough data to confirm whether this is true.
> 
> We need to just keep doing what we're doing - social distancing, masks and washing hands. Theres not much else that can be done.


I realise that it's more infectious, but if people were sticking to the rules, it wouldn't be able to infect the way it is. People have a lot to answer for.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I realise that it's more infectious, but if people were sticking to the rules, it wouldn't be able to infect the way it is. People have a lot to answer for.


Oh yes for sure there are a lot of selfish or oblivious people around! And you don't know how more infectious it is, it could only be 20%. But after the scenes you saw in London with crowds of people trying to shop its no wonder there is a huge number of new infections in that area, no matter which strain it is!


----------



## Siskin

Are they totally bonkers or what?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13544765/heathrow-queues-christmas-covid-lockdown/

I know it's the Sun but I presume this is real. Massive queues at Heathrow to fly somewhere for Christmas despite dozens of countries banning British flights. Many flights have been cancelled yet still they came to see if they could fly and then moaned about the queues.


----------



## catz4m8z

HarlequinCat said:


> This new variation doesn't seem any worse than others?
> 
> It is running a bit rampant in the south east .


Kinda an understatement there! Was working last night and its the worst its ever been, so many seriously ill people, hardly any staff to look after them (and some of the ones who are there are scared to be around the patients much as they are high risk themselves). This lockdown needs to be countrywide ASAP....if not death rates will def get higher then earlier in the year. 
You dont need to keep everyone in lockdown forever just control the waves better so the hospitals have a fighting chance to cope with this thing.


----------



## LittleEms

The cases are starting to creep up here in the SW, especially in children at school. It's getting a little worrying especially as we just don't have the hospitals for it. I think local hospital has 2 urgent care beds and that's it!


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> That reminds me of the Simpsons Movie. Wasn't there a Stephen King about a barrier. The Dome or something similar.:Jawdrop


Oh I'd forgotten the Simpsons film. It looked familiar and I couldn't think what it was. That was a funny film. I dont know the Stephen King one.


----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> Kinda an understatement there! Was working last night and its the worst its ever been, so many seriously ill people, hardly any staff to look after them (and some of the ones who are there are scared to be around the patients much as they are high risk themselves). This lockdown needs to be countrywide ASAP....if not death rates will def get higher then earlier in the year.
> You dont need to keep everyone in lockdown forever just control the waves better so the hospitals have a fighting chance to cope with this thing.


 Frightening. Its easy to forget how hard the NHS are working . Thank you .


----------



## simplysardonic

The more I read about the madness of the last few days with the weekend's London exodus, crowds descending on shops & supermarkets & the article @Siskin shared about Heathrow the more I feel like an outsider just looking in at the insanity of the human race.

I'd say people seem to be behaving like children who've been told not to do something only to go & do it out of sheer petulance, but most children I know behave better!

Cases here in North Norfolk are creeping up now as well, & I would imagine quite a few second home owners have arrived from London to further drive up those figures, the utterly selfish idiots


----------



## Siskin

simplysardonic said:


> The more I read about the madness of the last few days with the weekend's London exodus, crowds descending on shops & supermarkets & the article @Siskin shared about Heathrow the more I feel like an outsider just looking in at the insanity of the human race.
> 
> I'd say people seem to be behaving like children who've been told not to do something only to go & do it out of sheer petulance, but most children I know behave better!
> 
> Cases here in North Norfolk are creeping up now as well, & I would imagine quite a few second home owners have arrived from London to further drive up those figures, the utterly selfish idiots


They are creeping up here in the Cotswolds, not sure why exactly but I guess second homes and holiday homes could be why. There's people who live here and commute to London either daily or weekly, maybe from them. Something is happening though as the figure steadily gets higher and higher.


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> They are creeping up here in the Cotswolds, not sure why exactly but I guess second homes and holiday homes could be why. There's people who live here and commute to London either daily or weekly, maybe from them. Something is happening though as the figure steadily gets higher and higher.


It's worrying isn't it?

Much as I detest the idea of draconian methods to control the spread it seems we can't trust the common sense of people to stay put, & it's not even fear of the virus driving them, just a stubborn determination that Christmas must go ahead regardless of the cost to others.


----------



## Siskin

simplysardonic said:


> It's worrying isn't it?
> 
> Much as I detest the idea of draconian methods to control the spread it seems we can't trust the common sense of people to stay put, & it's not even fear of the virus driving them, just a stubborn determination that Christmas must go ahead regardless of the cost to others.


Quite, after all it's only a day in winter that most people seem not to celebrate with its true meaning, the birth of Jesus. It really isn't the end of the world not to be together on this one day, why not do as my friends are doing now that they will no longer have family on the 25th. They are planning to have Christmas at Easter, presents, turkey and all.


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> Quite, after all it's only a day in winter that most people seem not to celebrate with its true meaning, the birth of Jesus. It really isn't the end of the world not to be together on this one day, why not do as my friends are doing now that they will no longer have family on the 25th. They are planning to have Christmas at Easter, presents, turkey and all.


We've done this a few times in the past, when we've experienced hardship at Christmas we'll save it until circumstances have improved, put the tree & decs up, had a lovely meal, a few presents, put festive movies on the DVD player. People always thought we were mad, but my children loved it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> They are creeping up here in the Cotswolds, not sure why exactly but I guess second homes and holiday homes could be why. There's people who live here and commute to London either daily or weekly, maybe from them. Something is happening though as the figure steadily gets higher and higher.


My son's saying the same about Cornwall and how the figures are going up because of people arriving from other parts of the UK.

Talking about celebrating at Easter, that's what our PM has suggested people do when hopefully you can spend the time with larger numbers of your family. In South Africa,because it was too hot to have a traditional Christmas meal in December, we used to have our turkey and Christmas pud in June when the weather was cool!

Our infection rate is going down, due mainly because of the almost complete lockdown of the country.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Today 36,804 more cases and 691 deaths, getting very worrying.


----------



## Cully

lorilu said:


> It was. I read about half the book but it kept getting worse and worse so I never finished it. I ended up reading a spoiler to find out the ending,and when I read the end I was glad I never bothered to finish it.


Did you ever read his book Cell? It's a real.page turner but makes you look twice at your cell phone:Bag.


----------



## Nonnie

lorilu said:


> It was. I read about half the book but it kept getting worse and worse so I never finished it. I ended up reading a spoiler to find out the ending,and when I read the end I was glad I never bothered to finish it.


Oh i really liked the story, but hated the ending.

King is infamous for his endings.

The show was crap.


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Oh i really liked the story, but hated the ending.
> 
> King is infamous for his endings.
> 
> The show was crap.


Didn't they take the Mick out of him in the new IT for precisely that?


----------



## Nonnie

MilleD said:


> Didn't they take the Mick out of him in the new IT for precisely that?


Possibly.

Those were great, which was a pleasant surprise.

Be interesting to see what the The Stand will be like. One of my all time favourite novels. One of his better endings too.


----------



## MilleD

I've been to the hairdresser's for the first time since January today.

It started off quite well, two other people in there, took my temp on the way in.

Half way through, a woman came in with her mask under her nose coughing up a lung. Said she had had a covid test that came back negative this morning!

I was a bit disgusted, but wasn't really sure what I could do, she was in there for a limited amount of time, as just a cut. But the hairdryer doesn't help blowing things around. I even put the filter in my mask before I went which I've never done before.

I'm really not happy about the selfish cow, but I have to say that talking to the first "other" lovely humans for months was nice. They are a family deal, the guy that cuts my hair who is quite sexy and I assumed he was gay to start with (!) Is married to the lady who does my highlights and I love them all.

Just hope it was worth it.


----------



## lorilu

Cully said:


> Did you ever read his book Cell? It's a real.page turner but makes you look twice at your cell phone:Bag.


I haven't. That's the thing with him. He's a gripping writer, so you get caught up in the story right away. After The Shining (scared me so bad!) I kind of stopped reading any new King, then someone told me the Dome wasn't the same type of "scary" book. Oh no, just endless violence that got worse and worse and worse. Having said all that, The Stand (the original long version) is my absolute favorite book of all time.

Since I avoid cell phone use, maybe I ought to try this one,


----------



## MilleD

Nonnie said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Those were great, which was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Be interesting to see what the The Stand will be like. One of my all time favourite novels. One of his better endings too.


I'm shamed to say I've never finished that one!


----------



## lorilu

Nonnie said:


> Oh i really liked the story, but hated the ending.
> 
> King is infamous for his endings.
> 
> The show was crap.


I didn't see the film either.


Nonnie said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Those were great, which was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Be interesting to see what the The Stand will be like. One of my all time favourite novels. One of his better endings too.


Is The Stand a movie too? I just posted that it's my favorite.  I read it every other year.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Did you ever read his book Cell? It's a real.page turner but makes you look twice at your cell phone:Bag.


The ending is crap once again though isn't it?


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> The ending is crap once again though isn't it?


Not exactly breathtaking lol. Maybe his next book will be called 2020!


----------



## Magyarmum

Just on the lighter side ....




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1364800683862555


----------



## lorilu

It creeps closer and closer. I've just had a call that a colleague's daughter has been exposed to an asymptomatic person who has tested positive. She was in the car with her friend and her friend's father. The family had been tested, prior to traveling, a few days ago. (and don't get me started on the fact they were planning to travel). The father -as I said- asymptomatic- has tested positive.

My coworker is in the process of radiation treatment for breast cancer. She's already had chemo twice, and surgery.

This is that trickle down effect that people moaning about their "rights" just can't seem to grasp.

I'm not worried for myself. It's my work friend I am concerned for.


----------



## simplysardonic

Nonnie said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Those were great, which was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Be interesting to see what the The Stand will be like. One of my all time favourite novels. One of his better endings too.


It's my favourite & a novel I return to just because it's so good, even the ending. I do love an epic post apocalyptic tale.


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> Half way through, a woman came in with her mask under her nose coughing up a lung. Said she had had a covid test that came back negative this morning!
> I'm really not happy about the selfish cow,


TBF it must really suck to have a cough right now! I mean you might just have a winter bug or be getting over covid....you'd probably spend all your time explaining!!LOL
Ive had 2 colleagues recently come into work with bad coughs, 1 had covid, the other just had a chest infection! Very hard to tell the difference.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lorilu said:


> It creeps closer and closer. I've just had a call that a colleague's daughter has been exposed to an asymptomatic person who has tested positive. She was in the car with her friend and her friend's father. The family had been tested, prior to traveling, a few days ago. (and don't get me started on the fact they were planning to travel). The father -as I said- asymptomatic- has tested positive.
> 
> My coworker is in the process of radiation treatment for breast cancer. She's already had chemo twice, and surgery.
> 
> This is that trickle down effect that people moaning about their "rights" just can't seem to grasp.
> 
> I'm not worried for myself. It's my work friend I am concerned for.


Indeed.

A few of my son's friends have now tested positive having been contacted by someone else they had been around recently.

Fortunately, he hasn't been around those friends himself recently.

But it does highlight how easy it is spreading, especially via asymptomatic carriers.


----------



## O2.0

I've found the contact tracing interesting and actually reassuring. 
We've been very careful about quarantining close contacts to anyone who tested positive. In one instance an entire sports team who shared a bus for more than two hours with an infected person was quarantined. After 14 days, not one person on the team had tested positive or developed symptoms even though the person who tested positive and started the quarantine was symptomatic himself. 

There have been several cases like that. We're diligently quarantining students for 14 days, and that I know of, not one of the close contact quarantine cases has gone on to test positive. 

Now, in school, all adults and students wear masks. Outside of school who knows what people are doing, but the spread is not happening in schools. CNN recently did a story on schools not being spreader scenarios but other types of gatherings have been. 

Wear the mask people!


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Indeed.
> 
> A few of my son's friends have now tested positive having been contacted by someone else they had been around recently.
> 
> Fortunately, he hasn't been around those friends himself recently.
> 
> But it does highlight how easy it is spreading, especially via asymptomatic carriers.


Talking to my 23 year old granddaughter last night she was saying my son is driving her crazy by lecturing her every time she goes out, Wear your mask, keep 6 feet distance, wash your hands, don't go into crowded places and so on and so on ......... And when she gets back home ..... well that's another story

I can understand how frustrated she must feel and annoyed at being treated as though she's irresponsible, but as I tried to explain to her, her dad is a type 1 diabetic and as such in the vulnerable group. He knows that and is worried if he contracts the virus he could be seriously ill.

I told her it won't be long now before he gets vaccinated as will my DIL hopefully who is a carer in a home for autistic adults and then she'll be able to relax a little Until then we just have to carry on being vigilant and regard everyone we meet as infectious.


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> TBF it must really suck to have a cough right now! I mean you might just have a winter bug or be getting over covid....you'd probably spend all your time explaining!!LOL
> Ive had 2 colleagues recently come into work with bad coughs, 1 had covid, the other just had a chest infection! Very hard to tell the difference.


I think my issue was that she had plainly been mixing with someone with germs. I don't know anyone that has had as much as a cold this winter.

The cough did sound a little, um, phlegmy :Vomit and I think the covid cough is supposed to be dryer?

I could be completely wrong.

But you're right, farting in polite company seems more acceptable than coughing nowadays.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> But you're right, farting in polite company seems more acceptable than coughing nowadays.


Gone are the days when someone would have a coughing fit to disguise a fart, now it's the other way round


----------



## Cully

I have hayfever and just before the first lockdown I went up to Tesco along the path which had just been mowed. So as soon as I got into the shop I had a major sneezing session from all the pollen. I swear, everything went silent. You could have heard a pin drop as all eyes turned to me in horror.
I've done the same thing loads of times before and nobody ever batted an eyelid.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I have hayfever and just before the first lockdown I went up to Tesco along the path which had just been mowed. So as soon as I got into the shop I had a major sneezing session from all the pollen. I swear, everything went silent. You could have heard a pin drop as all eyes turned to me in horror.
> I've done the same thing loads of times before and nobody ever batted an eyelid.


Strange how we normalise things so quickly isn't it?

Another Briefing at 3pm folks.


----------



## daveos

More bad news a new strain found in the UK from South Africa which has mutated further and seems to target the young and healthy, Just seems like the Spanish flu that did the exact same thing so sick of it now all the worry my anxiety is through the roof.


----------



## Gemmaa

....someone say something positive, and make me feel better, please! :Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

daveos said:


> More bad news a new strain found in the UK from South Africa which has mutated further and seems to target the young and healthy, Just seems like the Spanish flu that did the exact same thing so sick of it now all the worry my anxiety is through the roof.


I had read about the Spanish flu mutating and how there was a more infectious version. Viruses do this as a matter of course as they want to survive as replicate, it's their soul purpose in life. It was also said that after the mutation the virus apparently fizzled out presumably because it had either infected enough people and they all had a dense against being reinfected, i.e. herd immunity.


----------



## LittleEms

daveos said:


> More bad news a new strain found in the UK from South Africa which has mutated further and seems to target the young and healthy, Just seems like the Spanish flu that did the exact same thing so sick of it now all the worry my anxiety is through the roof.


I hadn't heard it was specifically targeting young + healthy, that is a bit of a worry if so!


----------



## LittleEms

Siskin said:


> I had read about the Spanish flu mutating and how there was a more infectious version. Viruses do this as a matter of course as they want to survive as replicate, it's their soul purpose in life. It was also said that after the mutation the virus apparently fizzled out presumably because it had either infected enough people and they all had a dense against being reinfected, i.e. herd immunity.


I don't remember where I read it but apparently this Covid is mutating a little slower than other viruses have done before which may be a small silver lining? Hopefully it starts to do the fizzling soon.


----------



## daveos

We need a massive vaccine roll out now they need to approve all vaccines as soon as.
Also full lockdown ban travel from all of Africa would be good at this minute.


----------



## LittleEms

daveos said:


> We need a massive vaccine roll out now they need to approve all vaccines as soon as.
> Also full lockdown ban travel from all of Africa would be good at this minute.


According to the press conference they have implemented travel restrictions already.


----------



## MilleD

Gemmaa said:


> ....someone say something positive, and make me feel better, please! :Hilarious


Um, proton?

Sorry....


----------



## daveos

LittleEms said:


> According to the press conference they have implemented travel restrictions already.


Thats good to hear.


----------



## daveos

Have also read that the virus will mutate to become more infectious but it could also weaken as it will not survive if the host dies so could it be weakening ?


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Have also read that the virus will mutate to become more infectious but it could also weaken as it will not survive if the host dies so could it be weakening ?


Yes it could. Viruses need the host to survive, so eventually, the strains that kill the host will disappear and leave the less serious ones to carry on.


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> We need a massive vaccine roll out now they need to approve all vaccines as soon as.
> Also full lockdown ban travel from all of Africa would be good at this minute.


Apparently the final full package for the Oxford Vaccine has been submitted to the MHRA so we could be days away from the second vaccine being approved.


----------



## Siskin

Looks like we are going into tier 3 on Boxing Day, Gloucestershire.


----------



## LittleEms

MilleD said:


> Apparently the final full package for the Oxford Vaccine has been submitted to the MHRA so we could be days away from the second vaccine being approved.


Oh that is good news, I can't have the current one due to an allergy


----------



## daveos

MilleD said:


> Apparently the final full package for the Oxford Vaccine has been submitted to the MHRA so we could be days away from the second vaccine being approved.


Really good news hope they work with the new strains fingers crossed.


----------



## daveos

Will be glad when my elderly parents are vaccinated I worry for them a lot more than myself.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Apparently the final full package for the Oxford Vaccine has been submitted to the MHRA so we could be days away from the second vaccine being approved.


That's great news, should mean more vaccines becoming available without the need for dry ice. Hopefully more people will get vaccinated a lot quickened


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> Apparently the final full package for the Oxford Vaccine has been submitted to the MHRA so we could be days away from the second vaccine being approved.


Just back from my hairdresser's.
He said he'd heard a lot of the Oxford vaccine had to be destroyed because of some storage failure.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Just back from my hairdresser's.
> He said he'd heard a lot of the Oxford vaccine had to be destroyed because of some storage failure.


I know a hairdresser who is a complete conspiracy theorist.

Where is this info from? You'd think it would be all over he news.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> I know a hairdresser who is a complete conspiracy theorist.
> 
> Where is this info from? You'd think it would be all over he news.


Didn't question him further as I was thinking about the information I had read a while back where it was said they hoped to home produce X amount, then that figure was reduced sharply later on.

There's so much info coming from all sides, I forget what I've heard/read from where!


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I know a hairdresser who is a complete conspiracy theorist.
> 
> Where is this info from? You'd think it would be all over he news.


Or its a bit like Chinese whispers where they hear it from one client and then pass it on


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Didn't question him further as I was thinking about the information I had read a while back where it was said they hoped to home produce X amount, then that figure was reduced sharply later on.
> 
> There's so much info coming from all sides, I forget what I've heard/read from where!


Then perhaps if it's unverified, maybe not share it when people are getting anxious enough from what is real.

No offence meant and I know you are just passing on something someone said - but in the current climate I don't think it helps.


----------



## MollySmith

SbanR said:


> Just back from my hairdresser's.
> He said he'd heard a lot of the Oxford vaccine had to be destroyed because of some storage failure.


God this makes me so mad. Transparency and openness was why the vaccine team allowed the BBC into the labs to film. Your hairdresser is a liability, the very least we all should be fact checking.

Please read this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308216


----------



## MollySmith

On a window at the MRC in Cambridge University - all the viruses who have been controlled through vaccines - the template is from the University of Glasgow's website. We have some very clever humans doing amazing things.


----------



## Happy Paws2




----------



## rona

Quite pleased that we have gone into tier 4. My town isn't badly effected, but we were getting influxes from tier 4 areas.
A bit selfish but tier 4 only effects me because I can't go swimming but it reopens some of my walks that I couldn't go to with us being in a different tier to the walks, kayaking is possible too
Can still visit my friend to see if he's ok.

On the other hand, I know an old lady in her 80s that will be very upset, as she's a social butterfly and lives on her own, with children too far away to make a bubble


----------



## LittleEms

We’ve had an influx of people from tier 4 areas too, many have second homes down here in Devon. We’re currently tier 2 but I won’t be surprised if they put up up on Boxing Day.


----------



## Guest

2 new variants of Covid in the UK (so there is 3 strains now the original strain, the new one and then this new, new one which originated from South Africa) very worrying news, on top of this my area is going from Tier 2 to Tier 4 on Boxing Day and that finishes off the horrible year we've all had. I am not surprised though of the Tier jump because of the increase in numbers of people in my area. If people cannot stick to the rules this is what happens.

I have now put all my plans on hold with a review in six months time. I cannot see this virus getting any better in-between now and then. So that's another six months written off in my life (till June 2021), it's better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## willa

The tiny Hampshire village my parents are in going from Tier 2 into Tier 4.

I’m lucky in that I’m with my parents , but I can’t feel any Christmas cheer, wtf I wanna hide under my duvet until Christmas is over. My mood is rock bottom and this fake pressure of having to act happy as it’s Christmas. Nothing To be happy cheerful about .

Sorry to be so glum, but I can’t be the only person feeling this way. 
Roll on 2021


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> 2 new variants of Covid in the UK (so there is 3 strains now the original strain, the new one and then this new, new one which originated from South Africa) very worrying news, on top of this my area is going from Tier 2 to Tier 4 on Boxing Day and that finishes off the horrible year we've all had. I am not surprised though of the Tier jump because of the increase in numbers of people in my area. If people cannot stick to the rules this is what happens.
> 
> I have now put all my plans on hold with a review in six months time. I cannot see this virus getting any better in-between now and then. So that's another six months written off in my life (till June 2021), it's better to be safe than sorry.


Whilst yes it's a little worrying (less so if following the rules) you shouldn't see this as putting your life on hold, just doing things a little differently.

Every now and then I have to fact check myself when I start getting despondent,I still have a job (OH was made redundant, but he has found another one) my home and the people I care about. That makes any sacrifices I'm making, which are basically just not going out like I used to, worthwhile.

Maybe look at the things that are still ok, rather than what you are missing out on?


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> The tiny Hampshire village my parents are in going from Tier 2 into Tier 4.
> 
> I'm lucky in that I'm with my parents , but I can't feel any Christmas cheer, wtf I wanna hide under my duvet until Christmas is over. My mood is rock bottom and this fake pressure of having to act happy as it's Christmas. Nothing To be happy cheerful about .
> 
> Sorry to be so glum, but I can't be the only person feeling this way.
> Roll on 2021


Sending you hugs.

I don't know who you feel you have to act happy for, I know it's definitely not required on my behalf from anyone.

It's been a very strange year and we are not out of it yet, but if we all follow the rules for just a little longer whilst they roll out the vaccines, we will get there.

And imagine how good it will get when we can finally act normally.


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> hardly any staff to look after them


I don't know how true it is - we only ''know'' what we are told, of course - but I read that the (seven?) Nightingale hospitals are still standing empty owing to shortage of staff. As I said, not sure if there's any truth in that.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> but I can't feel any Christmas cheer


One thing I have noticed is that none of the supermarkets I have visited are playing the usual Christmas music - not one . . . not that I'm complaining. A friend of mine works part-time in [email protected] and says it depends which manager is on duty there.


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> Quite pleased that we have gone into tier 4. My town isn't badly effected, but we were getting influxes from tier 4 areas.


We will too now i suppose. We are remaining tier 2 but a couple of miles away is going to be tier 4. They will come here for things like hairdressers etc


----------



## StormyThai

We are going into tier 4 on Boxing day...can't say that I am surprised considering how many are behaving here!


----------



## MilleD

The whole of Cornwall has been placed into tier 4 lockdown after hundreds of pirates returned home to Penzance to celebrate Christmas with their families.
Apparently the Arrrrr rate has increased dramatically


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> The whole of Cornwall has been placed into tier 4 lockdown after hundreds of pirates returned home to Penzance to celebrate Christmas with their families.
> Apparently the Arrrrr rate has increased dramatically


I stand to be corrected but Cornwall has been placed into tier 2 not tier 4. I heard Matt Hancock announce it last night during his press conference and took particular note as my family lives in Falmouth.

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18965685.cornwall-move-tier-2-says-times-downing-street/

*Cornwall to 'move to Tier 2' Matt Hancock confirms*


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I stand to be corrected but Cornwall has been placed into tier 2 not tier 4. I heard Matt Hancock announce it last night during his press conference and took particular note as my family lives in Falmouth.
> 
> https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18965685.cornwall-move-tier-2-says-times-downing-street/
> 
> *Cornwall to 'move to Tier 2' Matt Hancock confirms*


Did you read what I wrote?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Did you read what I wrote?


So what did I miss?


----------



## LittleEms

Magyarmum said:


> So what did I miss?


A fantastic pun


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> So what did I miss?


The Pirates of Penzance aren't really coming home for Christmas......


----------



## Magyarmum

LittleEms said:


> A fantastic pun


----------



## Blackadder

MilleD said:


> The whole of Cornwall has been placed into tier 4 lockdown after hundreds of pirates returned home to Penzance to celebrate Christmas with their families.
> Apparently the Arrrrr rate has increased dramatically


It almost worked


----------



## MilleD

Blackadder said:


> It almost worked


----------



## Calvine

I can't help thinking another lockdown would have been better than all this swopping/swapping and changing. Many people must be totally confused by the recent changes, and bet your life they will have something else again up their sleeves for January.


----------



## Magyarmum

Blackadder said:


> It almost worked


----------



## catz4m8z

Speaking to my friend last night (who is a respiratory nurse specialist) and she says its shocking how many young, fit people are going to be left permanently affected by this. Even those who have just needed oxygen, not ventilation, are sometimes left with severe damage to their lungs. She mentioned one young fit guy (only risk factor was BAME) who will now be housebound and needing oxygen for the rest of his life.
I suppose thats stage 3 though. Stage 1-vaccinate and fight the infection, stage 2-try and get the economy back on its feet, stage 3-plan for the long term care of covid survivors. Its now something this generation will have to deal with long term Im afraid.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> Speaking to my friend last night (who is a respiratory nurse specialist) and she says its shocking how many young, fit people are going to be left permanently affected by this. Even those who have just needed oxygen, not ventilation, are sometimes left with severe damage to their lungs. She mentioned one young fit guy (only risk factor was BAME) who will now be housebound and needing oxygen for the rest of his life.
> I suppose thats stage 3 though. Stage 1-vaccinate and fight the infection, stage 2-try and get the economy back on its feet, stage 3-plan for the long term care of covid survivors. Its now something this generation will have to deal with long term Im afraid.


Do you think the poor young man needing oxygen forever had the new variant?

Speaking to a friend today and she told me that someone she's knows who are well into their 80's both had the virus and hardly any symptoms. She felt extremely tired and he was very irritable (still is apparently). Both were tested at the time and found to have covid. No coughs or other known symptoms.
The positive from this is that the virus doesn't automatically finish off the elderly, many do recover.


----------



## LittleEms

catz4m8z said:


> Speaking to my friend last night (who is a respiratory nurse specialist) and she says its shocking how many young, fit people are going to be left permanently affected by this. Even those who have just needed oxygen, not ventilation, are sometimes left with severe damage to their lungs. She mentioned one young fit guy (only risk factor was BAME) who will now be housebound and needing oxygen for the rest of his life.
> I suppose thats stage 3 though. Stage 1-vaccinate and fight the infection, stage 2-try and get the economy back on its feet, stage 3-plan for the long term care of covid survivors. Its now something this generation will have to deal with long term Im afraid.


Yes it's scary. I know someone in her 30's, absolutely no health worries at all, a regular marathon runner. She got Covid and now has heart problems for the rest of her life.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Magyarmum said:


>


As in arrrr, me hearties!


----------



## StormyThai

I'm sorry @Magyarmum but as a Cornish person I really did chuckle at your reply to the pun...that's the first time that I have laughed today so thank you


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


>


It's not as funny if you _know _it's a joke when you start reading....


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> As in arrrr, me hearties!


Nor if you have to explain it.....



:Angelic


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> The whole of Cornwall has been placed into tier 4 lockdown after hundreds of pirates returned home to Penzance to celebrate Christmas with their families.
> Apparently the Arrrrr rate has increased dramatically


:Hilarious


----------



## Nonnie

simplysardonic said:


> It's my favourite & a novel I return to just because it's so good, even the ending. I do love an epic post apocalyptic tale.


Have you ever read Swan Song by Robert McCammon? Its on par with The Stand imo.


----------



## Calvine

It's been dreadful for so many people; and many times worse for those with ill health. I also have to feel sorry for the stranded truck drivers, some of whom have been stuck in their cabs for four nights (and days I suppose). Some kindly people have been putting some nice food in bags and basket and attaching it to a rope, then lowering it down to them from a bridge, just as a token of kindness. I did not get to visit my son who lives in Kent, a few miles from the M20 and parts of the area were just an enormous lorry park. Apparently when he took the dogs out early, all he could hear were truck horns blaring; and I remember at the beginning of the year we were told we needed a three week lockdown from 23 March, and that would do the trick . . . and now we are heading for March 2021 and still it's causing havoc.


----------



## simplysardonic

Nonnie said:


> Have you ever read Swan Song by Robert McCammon? Its on par with The Stand imo.


Yes, I recently found a copy, absolutely loved it


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Siskin




----------



## Dave S




----------



## mrs phas

Scam alert from bury CCG


#ScamAlert : Elderly residents have been contacted by scammers saying that they'll receive their #COVID-19 vaccine at home. They have asked for a home address/suitable date/time to do this and payment. Please ignore! No vaccines will be done in private homes, and you will not be contacted in this way.#

Please warn elderly friends, neighbours, family, as although this is from the Bury area, it is countrywide,
And, of course,
The vaccine is free via NHS


----------



## willa

Talk of England going into Tier 5.
Just scrap the Tiers and put England into a full lockdown ( like back in the Spring)
Seems it’s at a critical level with the most ever new cases reported yesterday & reports saying the NHS are becoming increasingly concerned and full.


----------



## rona

From Twitter :Shamefullyembarrased

1. The dumbest thing I bought this year was a 2020 planner
2. 2019 Stay away from negative people. 2020 Stay away from positive people
(might roll this on into next year







)
3. The world has turned upside down. Old people are sneaking out of the house and their kids are yelling at them to stay indoors.
4. This morning I saw a neighbour talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her.
I came to my house and told the dog.....we had a good laugh
5. Every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pyjamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.
6. Does anyone know if we can take showers yet or should we just keep washing our hands?
7. I never thought the comment "I wouldn't touch them with a 6-foot barge pole" would become a national policy but here we are!
8. I really need to practice social distancing...... from the fridge
9. I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to the garden.
I am tired of the living room
10. Never in a million years could I have imagined I would go up to a bank clerk with a mask on and ask for money.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Pawscrossed

From the Telegraph


----------



## LittleEms

Pawscrossed said:


> From the Telegraph
> 
> View attachment 458895


I heard that this morning too - crazy considering we're about to head right into the worst of it again!
I know here in Exeter our Nightingale was briefly used for Cancer screenings and things but I thin they're opening for Covid again now


----------



## Happy Paws2

I just watching the news and in London one of the hospitals are using Ambulances as hospitals beds and treating people as they have no beds in the hospital.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just watching the news and in London one of the hospitals are using Ambulances as hospitals beds and treating people as they have no beds in the hospital.


 Concern over London Nightingale closure | Coronavirus | The Guardian
I don't read the Guardian, but saw spotted this today ^^^^^ There is talk of others closing too, which seems premature under the circumstances. But apparently (so I read and posted earlier) there is no staff to run them.
ETA Just spotted similar post above.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I was discussing the Nightingale hospitals last night with my husband and we were wondering if they were in use. If they arent and reports of hospitals being overrun with covid cases are true then not to use the Nightingales seems ridiculous. If they are not being used due to no staff and they are to be dismantled then what a shocking waste of money! Surely they must have been aware there wasnt going to be enough staff to work in them so why bother buliding them!


----------



## daveos

Boris just lock the whole country down please tier 5 but do it properly this time night curfew 9pm-5am.
Scrap furlough people are just taking advantage now always out or in shops .
Keep schools closed till February 
And massive vaccine roll out.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> I just watching the news and in London one of the hospitals are using Ambulances as hospitals beds and treating people as they have no beds in the hospital.


Patient came in last night who had spent 8hrs waiting in an ambulance coz we didnt have space for them. Only had a bed available as another patient passed away.
Its just crazy. Only a few weeks ago we had a few covid patients and were struggling to work out how to isolate them...now 3/4 of the ward are there for covid (and the rest just have it incidently). Now the struggle is where to put the people who _dont_ have it!
The SE probably has it worse now but the rest of the country is catching up quickly sadly.



3dogs2cats said:


> I was discussing the Nightingale hospitals last night with my husband and we were wondering if they were in use. If they arent and reports of hospitals being overrun with covid cases are true then not to use the Nightingales seems ridiculous. If they are not being used due to no staff and they are to be dismantled then what a shocking waste of money! Surely they must have been aware there wasnt going to be enough staff to work in them so why bother buliding them!


I dont know who they consulted about the Nightingale hospitals but there isnt a Dr or nurse working today who couldnt of told them that there wasnt enough staff to open them!:Banghead


----------



## 3dogs2cats

daveos said:


> Boris just lock the whole country down please tier 5 but do it properly this time night curfew 9pm-5am.
> Scrap furlough people are just taking advantage now always out or in shops .
> Keep schools closed till February
> And massive vaccine roll out.


So people who are unable to go to work due to either their place of work being closed or just unable to have the same amount of staff on the premises, should be prohibited from going out or shopping? 
We cant stay in a proper lockdown we have to come out of it eventually, Im sure the vaccine is being rolled out as fast as possible its in no ones interest to delay it. If we have a `proper` lockdown then more people will have to to be furloughed surely and unless the government is going to kindly to arrange for us all to have our shopping delivered then people will still go out shopping!


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> I dont know who they consulted about the Nightingale hospitals but there isnt a Dr or nurse working today who couldnt of told them that there wasnt enough staff to open them!:Banghead


I think anyone with half a brain could have told them that


----------



## rona




----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> I dont know who they consulted about the Nightingale hospitals but there isnt a Dr or nurse working today who couldnt of told them that there wasnt enough staff to open them!:Banghead


It`s very odd that they would have built them without sourcing the staff first or at the very least be aware of where they could draw upon staff if needed! My mum was taken to hospital around this time last year, I remember seeing all the ambulances stacked up outside and many patients on trolleys in the corridors around the a&e, it was awful then just due to the time of the year I really hate to think of how much worse this bloody virus is making it!


----------



## catz4m8z

3dogs2cats said:


> So people who are unable to go to work due to either their place of work being closed or just unable to have the same amount of staff on the premises, should be prohibited from going out or shopping?
> We cant stay in a proper lockdown we have to come out of it eventually, Im sure the vaccine is being rolled out as fast as possible its in no ones interest to delay it.


I think they were referring to those people who go out shopping several times a day whilst on lockdown...or to window shop....or to chat with friends down the high street. Or maybe thats just in my town!LOL:Hilarious
TBH a much stricter lockdown is probably our best move right now. Then go hard with the vaccinations and get as many elderly/compromised/health workers vaccinated as possible whilst giving the infections rates chance to drop again.
It would likely be the last time you would have to do it but could save alot of lives.



3dogs2cats said:


> It`s very odd that they would have built them without sourcing the staff first or at the very least be aware of where they could draw upon staff if needed!


I honestly think they thought that staff would rush out of retirement, work extra shifts, overtime, etc. Unfortunately years of treating the NHS like a giant pile of poop on their shoes has made people less inclined to risk their lives.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> I think they were referring to those people who go out shopping several times a day whilst on lockdown...or to window shop....or to chat with friends down the high street. Or maybe thats just in my town!LOL:Hilarious
> TBH a much stricter lockdown is probably our best move right now. Then go hard with the vaccinations and get as many elderly/compromised/health workers vaccinated as possible whilst giving the infections rates chance to drop again.
> It would likely be the last time you would have to do it but could save alot of lives.
> 
> I honestly think they thought that staff would rush out of retirement, work extra shifts, overtime, etc. Unfortunately years of treating the NHS like a giant pile of poop on their shoes has made people less inclined to risk their lives.


 But stopping furlough isn`t going to stop people going out several times a day, window shopping or chatting in the street. I have no problem with a lockdown but unless the vaccine can be rolled out very quickly, as in weeks not months, then I can`t see how we can sustain a long and damaging lockdown.


----------



## Siskin

Hopefully the vaccination rate will go up significantly once the Oxford vaccine is approved as its storage capabilities are so much easier to handle the the Pfizer one


----------



## kittih

daveos said:


> Boris just lock the whole country down please tier 5 but do it properly this time night curfew 9pm-5am.
> Scrap furlough people are just taking advantage now always out or in shops .
> Keep schools closed till February
> And massive vaccine roll out.


I don't in principle have an issue with a stricter lockdown ( we are currently in tier 4) but from a personal perspective I wouldn't be happy about a 9pm curfew. The only time I am prepared to go to a supermarket is after 10pm when there are very few other shoppers there. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't get my food due to a curfew.

Part of the issue is that compliance is reducing the longer this goes on and most mixing now is happening inside people's houses which is hard to police. People are less likely to meet up outside or in well ventilated spaces now it is cold and wet. Added to that how can the restrictions be policed effectively if most if the mixing and infection is happening behind closed doors?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> I honestly think they thought that staff would rush out of retirement, work extra shifts, overtime, etc. Unfortunately years of treating the NHS like a giant pile of poop on their shoes has made people less inclined to risk their lives.


Even before Covid there was some talk about those in retirement could be used to fill possible staff shortage due to Brexit, so probably the government thought they this would be a wonderful plan:Banghead


----------



## rona

BIL is heading back to covid care wards today, separating from his wife again, as she is vulnerable. 
He was in tears...........his lost two friends in the last wave


----------



## Magyarmum

kittih said:


> I don't in principle have an issue with a stricter lockdown ( we are currently in tier 4) but from a personal perspective I wouldn't be happy about a 9pm curfew. The only time I am prepared to go to a supermarket is after 10pm when there are very few other shoppers there. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't get my food due to a curfew.
> 
> Part of the issue is that compliance is reducing the longer this goes on and most mixing now is happening inside people's houses which is hard to police. People are less likely to meet up outside or in well ventilated spaces now it is cold and wet. Added to that how can the restrictions be policed effectively if most if the mixing and infection is happening behind closed doors?


Here in Hungary we've been in a strict lockdown since the beginning of November. All supermarkets close at 7 pm until 5 am the next morning. The curfew is from 8pm to 5 am for everyone apart from those working or travelling to or from work. The curfew was relaxed for Christmas Eve only which the equivalent of Christmas Day in the UK but no celebrations or fireworks for NYE. And mask wearing is mandatory even outside in town.

We don't have online ordering and delivery of groceries where I live so I have to go shopping for everyday things like fruit and vegetables. I only go shopping every two weeks, armed with my list, face mask and sanitiser so I can be in and out of the supermarket in the fastest time possible.

Although the death rate is not decreasing as fast as would be liked, the incidence of new infections has halved which I think proves that strict lockdowns do work if everyone abides by the rules.

Not ideal but it can be done.


----------



## Happy Paws2

What is the matter with people...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55474533


----------



## catz4m8z

3dogs2cats said:


> I have no problem with a lockdown but unless the vaccine can be rolled out very quickly, as in weeks not months, then I can`t see how we can sustain a long and damaging lockdown.


You just need to stop the infection rates rising short term...gives the health care system time to recover and herd immunity a chance to start kicking in with the vaccinations.



kittih said:


> The only time I am prepared to go to a supermarket is after 10pm when there are very few other shoppers there. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't get my food due to a curfew.


Ive found early is good too, when the shops open. Less people about and the ones that are there tend to be sensible about precautions. Covidiots dont seem to be early risers where I live!



3dogs2cats said:


> Even before Covid there was some talk about those in retirement could be used to fill possible staff shortage due to Brexit, so probably the government thought they this would be a wonderful plan:Banghead


Good luck with that...once I retire you will have to drag me back kicking and screaming!LOL



rona said:


> BIL is heading back to covid care wards today, separating from his wife again, as she is vulnerable.
> He was in tears...........his lost two friends in the last wave


Sorry to hear it, hope he is ok. We are going to be counting the cost of this year for years to come.


----------



## daveos

Hungary seems a good example for the UK to follow I like the sound of their laws we must be the only country to never of had a curfew utter madness.
People could return to work safely now they have had plenty of time to apply social distancing measures I work in a supermarket and we never shut there could easily be 400 in at a time and care homes they stayed open so why can't factories and offices go back they could stagger shifts or are they better than everybody else, Furlough is to expensive to keep going being at work is so much safer than mixing in homes which I have seen a lot in my road all the time since the 1st lockdown majority of the are on furlough just look at Wales today people are so stupid this is serious NHS I hope you get through this you are taken for granted by the selfish British public.


----------



## daveos

And ban fireworks they have been going off since Christmas Day around here it would stop people gathering on NYE which will happen.


----------



## daveos

Also think we should have a maximum of 10 miles from your home travel ban Australia did something similar using the army seemed to work well and got outbreak in Melbourne under control.


----------



## daveos

Before anybody shouts me down if you work over the 10 miles then that is fine its work not leisure.


----------



## kittih

Magyarmum said:


> Here in Hungary we've been in a strict lockdown since the beginning of November. All supermarkets close at 7 pm until 5 am the next morning. The curfew is from 8pm to 5 am for everyone apart from those working or travelling to or from work. The curfew was relaxed for Christmas Eve only which the equivalent of Christmas Day in the UK but no celebrations or fireworks for NYE. And mask wearing is mandatory even outside in town.
> 
> We don't have online ordering and delivery of groceries where I live so I have to go shopping for everyday things like fruit and vegetables. I only go shopping every two weeks, armed with my list, face mask and sanitiser so I can be in and out of the supermarket in the fastest time possible.
> 
> Although the death rate is not decreasing as fast as would be liked, the incidence of new infections has halved which I think proves that strict lockdowns do work if everyone abides by the rules.
> 
> Not ideal but it can be done.


My local supermarket opens at 7am so if they shifted opening till 2 hours earlier at 5am that would be an alternative option to avoiding the idiots. Anytime after 7.30am there are too many people for my peace if mind even for a quick dash in and out.

Do you think the Hungarians are more respectful of the lockdown rules than the UK is? I fully support restrictions myself but I am noticing more and more people exhibiting lockdown "fatigue" and just ignoring the rules.


----------



## Magyarmum

daveos said:


> Hungary seems a good example for the UK to follow I like the sound of their laws we must be the only country to never of had a curfew utter madness.
> People could return to work safely now they have had plenty of time to apply social distancing measures I work in a supermarket and we never shut there could easily be 400 in at a time and care homes they stayed open so why can't factories and offices go back they could stagger shifts or are they better than everybody else, Furlough is to expensive to keep going being at work is so much safer than mixing in homes which I have seen a lot in my road all the time since the 1st lockdown majority of the are on furlough just look at Wales today people are so stupid this is serious NHS I hope you get through this you are taken for granted by the selfish British public.


These are the rules in detail. Very simple and easy to follow, which is why I think most people abide by them.

https://hu.usembassy.gov/covid-19/


----------



## catz4m8z

daveos said:


> Before anybody shouts me down if you work over the 10 miles then that is fine its work not leisure.


Personally I think we should shut down all leisure activities, pubs, etc...full lockdown. And I know its not just peoples social activities, its jobs, homes, families, etc but this is a global pandemic. If anything would justify extreme measures it should be that!


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> BIL is heading back to covid care wards today, separating from his wife again, as she is vulnerable.
> He was in tears...........his lost two friends in the last wave


I am so sorry to hear about your BIL Rona.  I hope he is able to get back to see his wife again soon. His selfless dedication despite what he has experienced losing friends and leaving his wife is a lesson to us all.


----------



## Guest

53,135 positive cases today and 27,100 people in hospital with Covid 19. We need to have England in lockdown as a whole, people are ignoring the Tier 4 rules here where I live, the streets are busy, lots of people going past my house.

What is wrong with people? This virus is spreading because people are ignoring the rules.


----------



## Magyarmum

kittih said:


> My local supermarket opens at 7am so if they shifted opening till 2 hours earlier at 5am that would be an alternative option to avoiding the idiots. Anytime after 7.30am there are too many people for my peace if mind even for a quick dash in and out.
> 
> Do you think the Hungarians are more respectful of the lockdown rules than the UK is? I fully support restrictions myself but I am noticing more and more people exhibiting lockdown "fatigue" and just ignoring the rules.


I'm certain that Hungarians are more accepting of rules and regulations than the UK. It's a legacy of years of being a Soviet satellite state which many people still remember.

I have to admit that I'm totally fed up with being alone at home with only the dogs to talk to. It's been a year since I last saw my Granddaughter and 19 months since I last saw my son and DIL. And it doesn't help that the weather here is bitterly cold and wet, so you can't go for a walk without getting up to your elbows in mud! Still like everything else it will pass and having come this far I'm not going to relax now.


----------



## Bobbie

Plus how many travelled to the Brecon Beacons from places like London. But the police were turning some folk back. Plus queuing at the Trafford centre


----------



## catz4m8z

wow, my hospital finally wins at something! We have the most covid patients in the country right now...almost half the hospital.
That would explain why everybody at work looks on the verge of a nervous breakdown (also why Id happily lock everyone in their houses for the next month!).
rowning


----------



## tabelmabel

rawpawsrus said:


> 53,135 positive cases today and 27,100 people in hospital


I saw this and also, apparently Scotland has its highest number of recorded infections today - higher than any other day throughout the whole pandemic.

That wont even be due to Christmas day mixing yet, will it? How long would it take to get a confirmed positive test if you aquired the infection on dec 25th?

All these new infections today - when would those people have picked it up? Is this from all those folk that dashed off to railway stations when boris announced his change of plan?


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> I saw this and also, apparently Scotland has its highest number of recorded infections today - higher than any other day throughout the whole pandemic.


Thats why the tier system is so dumb. We live in a tiny country with a dense population....why wait for regions to start to become swamped with cases when you know its going to happen anyways?


----------



## Siskin

Apparently there were loads of people at Barry a island in South Wales about a week ago all crowded together not caring a fig, an earlier Welsh report talked of how the hospitals are not coping as they are full to the brim. I wonder why

53135 new cases is a scarily high number, it’s frightening. I hardly leave the house at the moment


----------



## tabelmabel

Scotland has a tier system too, but the whole of mainland scotland is in tier 4.

Which is lockdown really.


----------



## Guest

Managed to get the next few weeks online food shopping booked and I am booking slots for more home deliveries for food shopping when they become available. I am not moving from my house, I am staying put.


----------



## tabelmabel

Sounds very sensible. No one in our household is in a vulnerable group, fortunately and, also fortunately, if we nip up to our local sains at 9p.m ish, the store is pretty much empty.

So i should be ok there. Though we have enough quality st here to see us through a few months here


----------



## 3dogs2cats

catz4m8z said:


> Thats why the tier system is so dumb. We live in a tiny country with a dense population....why wait for regions to start to become swamped with cases when you know its going to happen anyways?


 Its always felt like a waiting game hasnt it! Right at the beginning we kept being told we were three weeks behind Italy, it was like we were just waiting to get that bad before doing anything. Johnson was advised back in September there needed to be a short lockdown but again we waited until November when it was to late to have much effect.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> I dont know who they consulted about the Nightingale hospitals but there isnt a Dr or nurse working today who couldnt of told them that there wasnt enough staff to open them!:Banghead


Would it be overly cynical to speculate that, given it is not possible to have been unaware of the staffing problem, the real purpose of the Nightingale hospitals was so the government could at least appear to be doing something impressive whilst giving juicy contracts to their mates?


----------



## Happy Paws2

We all need to be in the top tire it can't be allowed to carry on like this....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475240


----------



## Blackadder

Siskin said:


> I hardly leave the house at the moment


That's great if you can do it & you don't live with someone who has to go to work, mixing with others & who might bring it home!

I'm very sceptical about how these so called lockdowns are supposed to work.... there are 3 of us here, each working in a different place. If one of us picks up the virus then doing as we're told, staying at home, is probably the worst thing we could do. Cold weather meaning windows shut, warm stuffy rooms, constant close proximity... ideal for the virus!

Exactly why care homes & Hospitals are some of the main sources of infection (if I read correctly)

Yes, people ignoring the rules probably accounts for some of the rise but walking in the open air is far less hazardous than being shut up in a house....


----------



## Guest

Happy Paws2 said:


> We all need to be in the top tire


Whilst I agree with this, nobody is taking one blind bit of notice to my area being in Tier 4 except me it feels like.


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> Would it be overly cynical to speculate that, given it is not possible to have been unaware of the staffing problem, the real purpose of the Nightingale hospitals was so the government could at least appear to be doing something impressive whilst giving juicy contracts to their mates?


Well who knows .
Its a Governments responsibility to be prepared for any eventuality in an event such as this and an outcome not predictable. If they hadn't built them and they had been needed, then people would be moaning saying they weren't prepared and didnt want to spend the money and that the MPs are alright Jack because they have private hospitals and dont care about ordinary folk.

I might be wrong but I though back then , they were going to use the Forces medics. I would think now there is a shortage of NHS staff because some have died and many sick and having to isolate if they catch covid etc .


----------



## mrs phas

daveos said:


> Boris just lock the whole country down please tier 5 but do it properly this time night curfew 9pm-5am.
> Scrap furlough people are just taking advantage now always out or in shops .
> Keep schools closed till February
> And massive vaccine roll out.


Shall we put armed soldiers on each street corner too?
What do you suggest they put in place of furlough?
scrapping furlough, means scrapping furlough money,
It's actually keeping a roof over my son and his gf head
He's in club/pub trade, and, security
hes had no work, bar 5 days, since last march
Even if he sends people back to work, he's still not going to open pubs/clubs
At the moment, times are so dire in this little market town, two big factories have just closed, putting 3000 people in a town of 12000 out of job
meaning as well as furlough and covid jobs loss, there's roughly (according to dwp hub) 500 people applying for each job

Edit to add the ' he' I mentioned sending people back to work was BJ not my son


----------



## rona

Blackadder said:


> Yes, people ignoring the rules probably accounts for some of the rise but walking in the open air is far less hazardous than being shut up in a house....


Or those poor teachers who would go before a disciplinary hearing.
Heard a teacher on the radio today, she said you wouldn't put your granny in a room with 30 other people without masks or distancing, but that's exactly what was happening to that granny!
Her family wanted her to retire


----------



## Guest

Blackadder said:


> Yes, people ignoring the rules probably accounts for some of the rise but walking in the open air is far less hazardous than being shut up in a house....


You are safe in your own home without people coming around to visit. People are catching it coming into contact with one another outside as well. The virus is spreading like wildfire through person to person contact.


----------



## Blackadder

rona said:


> Or those poor teachers who would go before a disciplinary hearing.
> Heard a teacher on the radio today, she said you wouldn't put your granny in a room with 30 other people without masks or distancing, but that's exactly what was happening to that granny!


Exactly right! The worst place you can be with a highly contagious disease is stuck in a room with other people.


----------



## rona

rawpawsrus said:


> You are safe in your own home without people coming around to visit. People are catching it coming into contact with one another outside as well. The virus is spreading like wildfire through person to person contact.


Have you details of that?


----------



## Guest

rona said:


> Have you details of that?


Well house else is it spreading?


----------



## Guest

rona said:


> Have you details of that?


People are ignoring the Government's advice and that is fact, I have seen it myself.


----------



## Guest

Just look at the first proper lockdown when everyone was following the Government's advice the numbers came down because people weren't going around to each others homes. Now people don't care and aren't listening to the Government's advice and the Tier system isn't working.


----------



## rona

rawpawsrus said:


> Well house else is it spreading?


Inside work places, shops,public transport, restaurants, pubs. School children are taking it home. I know two who seem to have picked it up in hospitals.
I've not heard of anyone picking it up outside. I'm sure there are the odd few who have been unlucky to do so, but they must be few and far between


----------



## Blackadder

rawpawsrus said:


> Just look at the first proper lockdown when everyone was following the Government's advice the numbers came down because people weren't going around to each others homes. Now people don't care and aren't listening to the Government's advice and the Tier system isn't working.


I don't visit other homes, I follow the rules as far as I can but I have to go to work & therefore mix with others who might be infected!

The first lockdown worked (ish) because the weather was warming & people could get outside more lessening the spread, it's not a coincidence that the infections slumped over the summer months.


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Well who knows .
> Its a Governments responsibility to be prepared for any eventuality in an event such as this and an outcome not predictable. If they hadn't built them and they had been needed, then people would be moaning saying they weren't prepared and didnt want to spend the money and that the MPs are alright Jack because they have private hospitals and dont care about ordinary folk.


Oh, I'm I firm propronent of 'better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.' But you'd have thought sustainability of operation would have featured somewhere in the calculations... As I said, I'm in a bit of a cynical mood today!



kimthecat said:


> I might be wrong but I though back then , they were going to use the Forces medics. I would think now there is a shortage of NHS staff because some have died and many sick and having to isolate if they catch covid etc .


The NHS was borderline chronically understaffed before the pandemic anyway, and that's not exactly something that can be rectified overnight. The exhaustion and casualties Covid has wrought are just pushing it even closer to breaking than it usually is.


----------



## Arny

We also still don't have a competent track and trace system and never will.


----------



## willa

I don’t understand why this virus is now so out of control, the worst it’s ever been. 
Yet we aren’t doing a full National Lockdown, just faffing around with Tiers


----------



## Jesthar

daveos said:


> People could return to work safely now they have had plenty of time to apply social distancing measures I work in a supermarket and we never shut there could easily be 400 in at a time and care homes they stayed open so why can't factories and offices go back they could stagger shifts or are they better than everybody else,


The main difference between supermarkets and offices etc. is the amount of time people spend there. People don't spend 8 hours doing their shopping, and one of the most important factors in catching Covid is the length of time someone is exposed to the virus ('viral load'). When shopping, you generally aren't in close proximity to anyone for very long, probably for a few minutes at the till at the most. So your chances of picking up enough viral load are relatively low as long as you are taking the proper precautions. In an office, you will be around the same people for several hours, and even with social distancing in place that greatly increases the chances of a viral load accumulating from anyone who has Covid. Given that current projections estimate around 40% of cases are asymptomatic (subject to change as further study results come in) and many more so mild people just think they are a bit under the weather, plus it takes over a week for the virus to be purged from the body, then there is a much bigger risk that it will spread in an enclosed environment containing the same people in close proximity if one person is Covid positive, than a transient environment with a lot of people passing through. Also, implementing social distancing in offices means reducing the occupancy density by over 50% - ands supermarkets also tend to have a much larger airspace volume than offices, which helps lower any viral concentration.

The main difference between care homes and supermarkets is people don't live in supermarkets. If care homes close, all the residents have to go somewhere else and be looked after by someone - any suggestions as to where and who?



daveos said:


> Furlough is to expensive to keep going being at work is so much safer than mixing in homes which I have seen a lot in my road all the time since the 1st lockdown majority of the are on furlough


Suggesting scrapping furlough for those who genuinely can't work just because some are not obeying the lockdown rules is very unfair - it would be better to penalise those who are breaking the rules rather than the many who have no source of income becasue of Covid. Going back to work is NOT safer, even with social distancing measures, and many places of work are currently closed due to tier restrictions - should people working in those places be left unsupported? Generally speaking office workers are rather less likely to be furloughed than most - working from home is generally a more available option for them, IT permitting. I'm an office worker, and I've been working from home full time since before the first lockdown as my employer was quick off the mark. I'd rather like to stay working from home, to be honest.


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> The NHS was borderline chronically understaffed before the pandemic anyway, and that's not exactly something that can be rectified overnight. The exhaustion and casualties Covid has wrought are just pushing it even closer to breaking than it usually is.


Yes  This time of the year is always the worst for the NHS without Covid happening.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Looks like Birmingham is going into tire 4 today.


----------



## Gemmaa

Oxford vaccine approved!


----------



## rona

Gemmaa said:


> Oxford vaccine approved!


Looks like I won't have to wait until June for mine


----------



## LittleEms

rona said:


> Looks like I won't have to wait until June for mine


Same here!


----------



## rona

OH got notice from test and trace to self isolate. He hasn't been near anyone, except me and my friend. We are both so careful, because of my friends vulnerability.
We do go on street walks sometimes in the evening and pass people,but we always try and pass with distance. Could it be a fleeting passing on a walk? 
Make things even harder to look after my friend


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> OH got notice from test and trace to self isolate. He hasn't been near anyone, except me and my friend. We are both so careful, because of my friends vulnerability.
> We do go on street walks sometimes in the evening and pass people,but we always try and pass with distance. Could it be a fleeting passing on a walk?
> Make things even harder to look after my friend


I thought you needed to be "in the zone" longer than a fleeting pass by.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> I thought you needed to be "in the zone" longer than a fleeting pass by.


He hasn't.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> He hasn't.


Hopefully, then it's just a system blip.

Obviously, not ideal as he's been told to isolate, but I guess better than the other way round?


----------



## rona

The only thing we can think of and it was some time ago. Maybe sitting in his car texting or phoning people and someone was in a car right next to him!


----------



## LittleEms

rona said:


> The only thing we can think of and it was some time ago. Maybe sitting in his car texting or phoning people and someone was in a car right next to him!


I believe it does occasionally pick up passing by someone. My sister walks to work in London and it comes up on her phone sometimes but she has to walk past a Covid test centre! She can tell from the time if that's what has set it off.


----------



## Guest

When you have the first vaccine the second dose should be given up to 12 weeks afterwards according to Matt Hancock. People will be invited to have the vaccine by their GP surgery so people shouldn't phone up GP Surgery's to book appointments for the vaccine as it won't be allowed as they are doing this on the original plan, vulnerable first. Matt Hancock reckons by Spring the UK will have this virus under control and will be back to normality. That's alot of people needing to be vaccines from the 4th January 2021 to Spring.

Let's hope it will protect everyone from the second and third strain?


----------



## Blackadder

rona said:


> The only thing we can think of and it was some time ago. Maybe sitting in his car texting or phoning people and someone was in a car right next to him!


That's certainly possible. The app uses Bluetooth which has a range of up to 100m outside, much less indoors but still around 10-20m. So, in theory, sitting next to another car for longer than 15 mins could trigger an alert.


----------



## Boxer123

rona said:


> OH got notice from test and trace to self isolate. He hasn't been near anyone, except me and my friend. We are both so careful, because of my friends vulnerability.
> We do go on street walks sometimes in the evening and pass people,but we always try and pass with distance. Could it be a fleeting passing on a walk?
> Make things even harder to look after my friend


I think it is something to do with the blue tooth me and my sister got one on holiday and hadn't been near anyone we then got another message saying to ignore the first.


----------



## willa

Announcement at 4pm about Schools.
I hope they’ve decided to keep them shut In January


----------



## Guest

willa said:


> Announcement at 4pm about Schools.
> I hope they've decided to keep them shut In January


This new strain they believe is spreading fast and has become the most dominant strain. If schools do close they should do remote learning with the children so they don't slip behind further with their education. It won't be an extended holiday if they do close the schools.


----------



## MilleD

Excellent briefing on the news just now about the vaccine. Just experts, no politicians. Calm, to the point and plain English.

Very impressed.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Excellent briefing on the news just now about the vaccine. Just experts, no politicians. Calm, to the point and plain English.
> 
> Very impressed.


Any chance of a link to it, sounds interesting


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Any chance of a link to it, sounds interesting


Mmm, it was on the BBC news channel. They interrupted the Brexit chat for it. I'll see if I can find anything.


----------



## MilleD

Ah, think this is it.

(24) Watch live: Downing Street technical briefing on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine - YouTube


----------



## MilleD

MilleD said:


> Ah, think this is it.
> 
> (24) Watch live: Downing Street technical briefing on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine - YouTube


@Siskin ignore the loons in the comments section.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> the Forces medics


I saw they were using them to do the testing of the EU lorry drivers stranded in Kent. Heaven knows how they would have coped without them. There were apparently 10,000 trucks, many with more than one driver. Apparently very few tested positive. (Not sure what happened to the positive ones or where they went to isolate for however many days.)


----------



## MollySmith




----------



## kimthecat

,
Supposed to have my first infusion for RA on Tuesday, my foot has been slightly swollen and red and sore for a week . I emailed my Rheumy consultant a photo but he said its not possible to tell what it is but it could be cellulitis and to contact my GP . Im waiting for the surgery to see if a doctor can see me. There is an appt on Monday but the GP has to agree to see me in person so waiting to hear back . if it is cellulitis I will need antibiotics and I will have to cancel the infusion .


----------



## Jobeth

rawpawsrus said:


> This new strain they believe is spreading fast and has become the most dominant strain. If schools do close they should do remote learning with the children so they don't slip behind further with their education. It won't be an extended holiday if they do close the schools.


They won't close the schools and even during lockdown they were open to the children of key workers and the vulnerable.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> The only thing we can think of and it was some time ago. Maybe sitting in his car texting or phoning people and someone was in a car right next to him!


Apparently, that can do it.


----------



## daveos

Jesthar said:


> The main difference between supermarkets and offices etc. is the amount of time people spend there. People don't spend 8 hours doing their shopping, and one of the most important factors in catching Covid is the length of time someone is exposed to the virus ('viral load'). When shopping, you generally aren't in close proximity to anyone for very long, probably for a few minutes at the till at the most. So your chances of picking up enough viral load are relatively low as long as you are taking the proper precautions. In an office, you will be around the same people for several hours, and even with social distancing in place that greatly increases the chances of a viral load accumulating from anyone who has Covid. Given that current projections estimate around 40% of cases are asymptomatic (subject to change as further study results come in) and many more so mild people just think they are a bit under the weather, plus it takes over a week for the virus to be purged from the body, then there is a much bigger risk that it will spread in an enclosed environment containing the same people in close proximity if one person is Covid positive, than a transient environment with a lot of people passing through. Also, implementing social distancing in offices means reducing the occupancy density by over 50% - ands supermarkets also tend to have a much larger airspace volume than offices, which helps lower any viral concentration.
> 
> The main difference between care homes and supermarkets is people don't live in supermarkets. If care homes close, all the residents have to go somewhere else and be looked after by someone - any suggestions as to where and who?
> 
> Suggesting scrapping furlough for those who genuinely can't work just because some are not obeying the lockdown rules is very unfair - it would be better to penalise those who are breaking the rules rather than the many who have no source of income becasue of Covid. Going back to work is NOT safer, even with social distancing measures, and many places of work are currently closed due to tier restrictions - should people working in those places be left unsupported? Generally speaking office workers are rather less likely to be furloughed than most - working from home is generally a more available option for them, IT permitting. I'm an office worker, and I've been working from home full time since before the first lockdown as my employer was quick off the mark. I'd rather like to stay working from home, to be honest.


Don't know where you get your information but I have had many colleagues who have caught cover in our workplace and they have not been anywhere else and social distanced etc all have made a good recovery, Offices can be safe staff don't sit on top of each other breaks can be staggered and windows opened and as you say you don't want to go back have heard this of a lot of people some saying they hope furlough goes on forever and it beats working.
What you are saying is as long as you are ok then nobody else matters so teachers doctors nurses food manufacturers vets vet nurses retail staff bakers butchers etc are not important in your view then? because it seems that way to me we would all like to be at home but we can't .


----------



## MollySmith

A very good programme here - thankfully not Jeremy Vine hosting - epidemiologist Deepti Gurdansi from 12:12 onwards
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_two


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> Ah, think this is it.
> 
> (24) Watch live: Downing Street technical briefing on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine - YouTube


Brilliant, thank you. All very interesting and pretty reassuring. Hopefully the vaccine program will speed up quite noticeably.

I couldn't quite ignore the nut jobs, like to see what their latest whinge is. Oh well, I guess they won't mind too much if they get the virus and don't survive it


----------



## willa

Lots of news this afternoon. Tiers update, Schools update, then press conference with Johnson


----------



## MollySmith

Deleted... clearly deemed pointless.


----------



## catz4m8z

huh...thats kinda what I said earlier in the thread. Hard lockdown with vaccination push or else we are all pooped! But it was with fewer words and no social media presence!!:Smug
:Hilarious


----------



## willa

So idiot Hancock already said no National Lockdown happening.
What an idiot ‍♀‍♀


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> huh...thats kinda what I said earlier in the thread. Hard lockdown with vaccination push or else we are all pooped! But it was with fewer words and no social media presence!!:Smug
> :Hilarious


It is.

And without the annoyingness that is Twitter....


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> Deleted... clearly deemed pointless.


sorry you deleted it, I thought it was useful. Have followed them.



MilleD said:


> It is.
> 
> And without the annoyingness that is Twitter....


I find Twitter useful for information, you just have to know how to use it correctly


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Deleted... clearly deemed pointless.


To be honest, it's just a horrible way to read things. But not pointless.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> I find Twitter useful for information, you just have to know how to use it correctly


I really can't stand the bite size way it works. Really don't think it's the platform for such in depth information.


----------



## mrs phas

Essex declares major incident over virus cases 
How amazing is it that Thurrock, the home of lakeside and IKEA has the steepest and highest rate :Facepalm

BBC News - Covid: Essex declares major incident over virus cases
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55480147


----------



## Pawscrossed

MilleD said:


> I really can't stand the bite size way it works. Really don't think it's the platform for such in depth information.


lots of good nuggets are linked back to main articles - not all though I must say. It does take a bit of getting used to but I much prefer to Facebook.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> lots of good nuggets are linked back to main articles - not all though I must say. It does take a bit of getting used to but I much prefer to Facebook.


I wouldn't use Facebook for that sort of information either to be honest.


----------



## Pawscrossed

mrs phas said:


> Essex declares major incident over virus cases
> How amazing is it that Thurrock, the home of lakeside and IKEA has the steepest and highest rate :Facepalm
> 
> BBC News - Covid: Essex declares major incident over virus cases
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55480147


This is my county, I am not that end of if but no surprise that there is a rise. I do wonder if the thought of a vaccine is making people slap dash in an 'I'm alright Jack' way?

The message that it is not the only solution needs to be shared widely. It is why I was sad to see @MollySmith remove her post - though appreciate (maybe) why - it can't be said enough. The more ways the better, I feel.


----------



## Blackadder

catz4m8z said:


> Hard lockdown with vaccination push or else we are all pooped!


What is a "Hard lockdown"? What does it involve?


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> So idiot Hancock already said no National Lockdown happening.
> What an idiot ‍♀‍♀


What a moron. Pretty much every poll Ive read seems to have about an 80% positive reaction to lockdowns at times like this. Most people know what we should be doing...why doesnt our government trust us to know too?:Banghead

But yet again they have ignored the writing on the wall. At every stage of this thing there has been an example of how things will go just by watching other countries. In this case they only had to look at the SE to see what was going to happen for the rest of the country....pay attention you muppets!


----------



## catz4m8z

Blackadder said:


> What is a "Hard lockdown"? What does it involve?


I mean like we had back in the first wave. All non essential businesses shut, schools shut, etc. Personally I think if you do this for a month (which would suck on a huge level I know) plus push the vaccines on your vulnerable and health workers you might be able to pull the NHS out of the hole its falling into and save lives.
But then again Im just a random numpty....what do I know!!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Guest

I cannot believe we have not been put into another lockdown. Instead Hancock announced more areas to enter Tier 4. The Tier system isn't working. We seriously need a lockdown in England.


----------



## rona

LittleEms said:


> I believe it does occasionally pick up passing by someone. My sister walks to work in London and it comes up on her phone sometimes but she has to walk past a Covid test centre! She can tell from the time if that's what has set it off.





Blackadder said:


> That's certainly possible. The app uses Bluetooth which has a range of up to 100m outside, much less indoors but still around 10-20m. So, in theory, sitting next to another car for longer than 15 mins could trigger an alert.





Boxer123 said:


> I think it is something to do with the blue tooth me and my sister got one on holiday and hadn't been near anyone we then got another message saying to ignore the first.





Lurcherlad said:


> Apparently, that can do it.


Solved. Next door neighbour had a positive test result yesterday and obviously OH's phone and their phone have been spending time together within a few meters 

It must be, he hasn't been near anyone .....................


----------



## willa

As I expected just Tier 4 expansion. IMO waste of time , seems Tier 4 doesn’t work


----------



## Blackadder

willa said:


> As I expected just Tier 4 expansion. IMO waste of time , seems Tier 4 doesn't work


So what would you propose? There's not much more to close down after Tier 4 is there?


----------



## ForestWomble

When is the next private spaceship to outer space? I want on it, be safer than planet Earth right now.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> ,
> Supposed to have my first infusion for RA on Tuesday, my foot has been slightly swollen and red and sore for a week . I emailed my Rheumy consultant a photo but he said its not possible to tell what it is but it could be cellulitis and to contact my GP . Im waiting for the surgery to see if a doctor can see me. There is an appt on Monday but the GP has to agree to see me in person so waiting to hear back . if it is cellulitis I will need antibiotics and I will have to cancel the infusion .


I do hope you get seen soon


----------



## Siskin

Gloucestershire has been moved into tier 4. Ho hum


----------



## willa

Dear god 981 deaths what is happening


----------



## Guest

I think the Government should lock England down and people get vaccinated and each area reopens when everyone in that area is vaccinated. No one is allowed to travel outside of their area or into that area until other areas are safe to do so (eg everyone in neighbouring areas are completely vaccinated) and there are no new cases or deaths from Covid-19.


----------



## Guest

willa said:


> Dear god 981 deaths what is happening


People are ignoring the Tier rules that's what's happening and why it is spreading so fast.


----------



## ForestWomble

rawpawsrus said:


> I think the Government should lock England down and people get vaccinated and each area reopens when everyone in that area is vaccinated. No one is allowed to travel outside of their area or into that area until other areas are safe to do so (eg everyone in neighbouring areas are completely vaccinated) and there are no new cases or deaths from Covid-19.


What about those who can't get vaccinated (not talking about those who refuse, but those who can't due to a genuine reason)?


----------



## ForestWomble

I've just checked the new tiers and I don't know if I'm tier 3 or 4 now.
The village I'm in seems to fall under the two councils for the county, part of my address would have me under tier 4, but my council is tier 3? 
I'm confused ........ (not hard I know)


----------



## Pawscrossed

World beating UK


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> As I expected just Tier 4 expansion. IMO waste of time , seems Tier 4 doesn't work


In this small of a country it is a total waste of time. Looking at the map there seems to be a teeny little area of tier 3 inside all the tier 4 areas....is there a forcefield around it?? does the virus just stop at the line?? or maybe they have their own private hospital??
sheesh...just shut everything non essential and give people a curfew, make it country wide.

Just winds me up TBH. Successive gorvernments have done their level best to downsize and dismantle the NHS. They've reduced services, budgets and cut staffing, closed hospitals and taken away nursing bursaries. In essence they have done their absolute best to break the NHS.
Now they are in a pandemic, s***s hit the fan and they are all headless chickens, screaming 'ermagherd!!! do your bit British public. The NHS is broken!!':Nailbiting

yeah, well maybe if you wanted it so bad you shouldnt of broken it in the first place.:Shifty


----------



## Bisbow

What is needed is put the country into total lockdown
Allow the police and military check anyone out if it I for a good reason, if not escort them home and fine them

OOH
I can hear the nay-sayers screaming about their human rights already

That's my opinion and I am sticking to it


----------



## mrs phas

Remember my friend who went to Wales, from Suffolk, via Stevenage, when Wales was shutdown in Oct?
Well she's just travelled from Suffolk to Somerset and back for Christmas
This is the kind of lunacy that drives these spikes
she insisted she could go, despite Suffolk going from tier 2 to 4, and, that bit of Somerset falling from 4 to 3, because
"They're her bubble" 
During summer lockdown I, apparently, was her 'bubble', because I had a garden and she lives in an upstairs maisonette so had no garden :Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> In this small of a country it is a total waste of time. Looking at the map there seems to be a teeny little area of tier 3 inside all the tier 4 areas....is there a forcefield around it?? does the virus just stop at the line?? or maybe they have their own private hospital??
> sheesh...just shut everything non essential and give people a curfew, make it country wide.
> 
> Just winds me up TBH. Successive gorvernments have done their level best to downsize and dismantle the NHS. They've reduced services, budgets and cut staffing, closed hospitals and taken away nursing bursaries. In essence they have done their absolute best to break the NHS.
> Now they are in a pandemic, s***s hit the fan and they are all headless chickens, screaming 'ermagherd!!! do your bit British public. The NHS is broken!!':Nailbiting
> 
> yeah, well maybe if you wanted it so bad you shouldnt of broken it in the first place.:Shifty


I'm so sorry that you and your work compatriots are having to take the brunt of this.
Our thanks is just not enough, but I don't know what else we can do


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> Dear god 981 deaths what is happening


Whilst it is terrible, part of that high figure is to do with delays in reporting over Christmas.

We are going into tier 4. But if people can't follow the tier 1 2 and 3 rules. Why will they follow the ones for 4?


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> In this small of a country it is a total waste of time. Looking at the map there seems to be a teeny little area of tier 3 inside all the tier 4 areas....is there a forcefield around it?? does the virus just stop at the line?? or maybe they have their own private hospital??
> sheesh...just shut everything non essential and give people a curfew, make it country wide.
> 
> Just winds me up TBH. Successive gorvernments have done their level best to downsize and dismantle the NHS. They've reduced services, budgets and cut staffing, closed hospitals and taken away nursing bursaries. In essence they have done their absolute best to break the NHS.
> Now they are in a pandemic, s***s hit the fan and they are all headless chickens, screaming 'ermagherd!!! do your bit British public. The NHS is broken!!':Nailbiting
> 
> yeah, well maybe if you wanted it so bad you shouldnt of broken it in the first place.:Shifty


I'm so sorry, it's so bloody crap that you, your colleagues and @Jackie C and others take the impact of people's behaviour and the crap governments. Thank you is so trite but meant.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> World beating UK
> View attachment 459020


Different countries have different testing protocols. It's very difficult to compare.


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Remember my friend who went to Wales, from Suffolk, via Stevenage, when Wales was shutdown in Oct?
> Well she's just travelled from Suffolk to Somerset and back for Christmas
> This is the kind of lunacy that drives these spikes
> she insisted she could go, despite Suffolk going from tier 2 to 4, and, that bit of Somerset falling from 4 to 3, because
> "They're her bubble"
> During summer lockdown I, apparently, was her 'bubble', because I had a garden and she lives in an upstairs maisonette so had no garden :Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


I have a friend who drove from Tier 2 to 1 and 3 and made stops everywhere, considered it her 'right' to go away. We left our county once when we were allowed and didn't get out of the car, but going through Wroxham in Norfolk we saw loads of people side by side on a footbridge no masks. I despair. There's a thread about St Pancras after last tier review and a passenger who _had_ to leave London to see her mother but was ironically blaming the volume of passengers on rail staff... I'd share it but it's Twitter 

I'm no expert in communication but I've done enough work in delivering complex data and the ideas of bubbles, tiers etc is confusing. I've long thought that there are rule breakers and the bewildered (my parents who are no longer in my bubble) combining to create spikes and don't get me started on the governments social media on Twitter, it's so badly presented during the summer more people took the piss than understood it. @Bisbow has a point and I'm all for human rights but.... the right to live is rather compelling.


----------



## willa




----------



## daveos

Bisbow said:


> What is needed is put the country into total lockdown
> Allow the police and military check anyone out if it I for a good reason, if not escort them home and fine them
> 
> OOH
> I can hear the nay-sayers screaming about their human rights already
> 
> That's my opinion and I am sticking to it


You have hit the nail on the head this is a half baked plan, I have been saying for weeks we need TOTAL lockdown police and military on streets the public can't be trusted also need a night time curfew and give people a pass to shop once a week for essentials it can be done Taiwan and Thailand Australia and New Zealand took these measures they are in a much better place.
In the meantime Homebase B and Q and all supermarkets will be packed again by the Covid Idiots for something to do what a joke.


----------



## MilleD

No mention of the "dismantling" of the nightingale hospitals in the briefing that was reported in the media....


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> No mention of the "dismantling" of the nightingale hospitals in the briefing that was reported in the media....


They said they were using them for other clinical uses, not Covid


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> They said they were using them for other clinical uses, not Covid


I thought they said that as well.


----------



## Calvine

rawpawsrus said:


> People are ignoring the Tier rules that's what's happening and why it is spreading so fast.


 I think you are right; but the fact that the tiers keep changing is probably confusing for many people. At least with lockdown people had a fair idea - you didn't need to be a genius to work it out.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> So what would you propose? There's not much more to close down after Tier 4 is there?


Indeed. And every time someone mentions moving to Tier 4 or full Lockdown there are cries of "what about the economy, my business, education" etc.

There is no easy answer.

Personally, I don't find the official rules that difficult to ascertain as laid out on the Government website or follow tbh.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> What is needed is put the country into total lockdown
> Allow the police and military check anyone out if it I for a good reason, if not escort them home and fine them
> 
> OOH
> I can hear the nay-sayers screaming about their human rights already
> 
> That's my opinion and I am sticking to it


I totally agree with you., total lockdown that's the only way it will work, all this faffing around is getting us no where, come on BJ get your act together.


----------



## LittleEms

rona said:


> They said they were using them for other clinical uses, not Covid





Happy Paws2 said:


> I thought they said that as well.


I don't know about all of them, but the one here in Exeter was being used for cancer patients.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Changing the subject slightly, OH went out to pay a few bills this morning, now we don't need to go out until the start of March. So I don't care what tire we are in, it wont affect us.


----------



## willa

Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


----------



## Happy Paws2

LittleEms said:


> I don't know about all of them, but the one here in Exeter was being used for cancer patients.


I've just googled the one in Birmingham I don't think they are using it.


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


Oh dear. I do hope he's going to be ok.

How old is he and is he generally healthy?


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> They said they were using them for other clinical uses, not Covid


They said diagnostics. They didn't say it was non covid.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I think you are right; but the fact that the tiers keep changing is probably confusing for many people. At least with lockdown people had a fair idea - you didn't need to be a genius to work it out.


It's not that difficult to work things out though is it? And on all tiers, hand face space which people still don't seem to be able to understand.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


Oh no, hope he be OK and home soon.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Indeed. And every time someone mentions moving to Tier 4 or full Lockdown there are cries of "what about the economy, my business, education" etc.
> 
> There is no easy answer.
> 
> Personally, I don't find the official rules that difficult to ascertain as laid out on the Government website or follow tbh.


We were unsure in Tier 2. We had a holiday booked (made pre Covid) and in Tier 2 which we and the cottage were in until the pre-Xmas tier change, we could go even though the advice was stay in your village or town - the footnote was that holiday accommodation could remain open. But we would've been travelling from a city with 188 cases to a county which did have 88 (first week of Dec) and until the advice changed we had no reason not to go - officially. We went to 4 before Xmas and it is clearer.

The ambiguity in 2 made me anxious not least because the Faceache village forum where we were going was already getting very feisty about visitors and it's been like that in my home city which was still accepting (no so much welcoming!) visitors. I can understand why. I expect we'd not have gone and had to lose the money had the tiers not moved.


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


So sorry @willa


----------



## willa

Happy Paws2 said:


> Oh no, hope he be OK and home soon.


It's so frightening. They may have to put him on a ventilator as he can't get enough oxygen.
The big NHS Teaching Hospital In London is so overrun my Aunt has no way of finding out what is happening


----------



## mrs phas

The government should drop the fluffy elastic word _guideline _and just make them laws
Too many people use the fact that the word guideline is used to get around the 'guidelines' 
If they just came out and said 
'these are the laws you are expected to follow in tiers 1, 2, 3 and 4'
people would have it in black and white, no arguements brooked


----------



## Guest

willa said:


> Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


So sorry to read about your Uncle.


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> It's so frightening. They may have to put him on a ventilator as he can't get enough oxygen.
> The big NHS Teaching Hospital In London is so overrun my Aunt has no way of finding out what is happening


so sorry to hear it, I hope he gets better.
If your aunt hasnt already try and ask staff about arranging a password to be set up. Staff will be able to go into much more medical detail over the phone if your uncle is able to give your aunt a password to use .


----------



## HarlequinCat

@ForestWomble Dorset is tier 3, but BCP is tier 4

I'm sure you said you are near wool, so you would be under tier 3 I should think


----------



## catz4m8z

yeesh.....you want to really depress yourself go back to page 1 of this thread and look at how naive and hopeful we all were!:Wideyed


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> @ForestWomble Dorset is tier 3, but BCP is tier 4
> 
> I'm sure you said you are near wool, so you would be under tier 3 I should think


Thank you for your answer, but no, I'm not near Wool.


----------



## HarlequinCat

ForestWomble said:


> Thank you for your answer, but no, I'm not near Wool.


Ahhh anywhere Wimborne and out away from bournemouth is tier 3. There's a place in Wimborne I follow and they are remaining open. Hopefully that helps!


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> yeesh.....you want to really depress yourself go back to page 1 of this thread and look at how naive and hopeful we all were!:Wideyed


oh god, we really were. To be fair, you were keeping it real on page 2.

I bought Vic Lee's Corona Diary in July and even that's a bit naive but I wanted a record of the months passed. 
https://coronadiary2020.com/Corona_Diary_2020/VIC-LEE_HOMEPAGE.html


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> I do hope you get seen soon


My GP assessed me by photographs this afternoon and she thinks its cellulitis and i can start 5 days Anti biotics tomorrow which will end Monday. Im waiting to hear if the hospital will let me have the infusion on Tuesday.
and I was so worried that it would be cancelled because of Covid


----------



## Lurcherlad

Fingers crossed for you @kimthecat


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Fingers crossed for you @kimthecat


Thanks.


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> Just heard my Uncle has been taken to hospital in ambulance with Covid. Breathing difficulties


Im sorry to hear this. I hope he will be ok.


----------



## ForestWomble

Fingers crossed @kimthecat


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> Ahhh anywhere Wimborne and out away from bournemouth is tier 3. There's a place in Wimborne I follow and they are remaining open. Hopefully that helps!


Thank you, yes that helps.


----------



## ebonycat

kimthecat said:


> My GP assessed me by photographs this afternoon and she thinks its cellulitis and i can start 5 days Anti biotics tomorrow which will end Monday. Im waiting to hear if the hospital will let me have the infusion on Tuesday.
> and I was so worried that it would be cancelled because of Covid


Keeping my fingers crossed for you xx


----------



## willa

rona said:


> Oh dear. I do hope he's going to be ok.
> 
> How old is he and is he generally healthy?


He is 63 and usually fit and healthy. His teenage son had it very mildly few weeks back. Then 2 days ago my Uncle began to not feel too well, took a test ( they had bought a couple online) and was Positve. Then thismorning woke feeling and looking dreadful, unable to breath properly, Parmedics checked his oxygen which was dangerously low.
It Was that sudden


----------



## Magyarmum

I had an email last night from a friend to say that a mutual friend of ours who lives in Hereford has Covid. She's 84 and her partner who's clear so far is 92. So very worrying.


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> He is 63 and usually fit and healthy. His teenage son had it very mildly few weeks back. Then 2 days ago my Uncle began to not feel too well, took a test ( they had bought a couple online) and was Positve. Then thismorning woke feeling and looking dreadful, unable to breath properly, Parmedics checked his oxygen which was dangerously low.
> It Was that sudden


They bought tests online? 

Hope he is ok.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Lurcherlad

@willa hope your uncle responds well to treatment and is home safe and sound soon.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've just googled the one in Birmingham I don't think they are using it.


 Yes; I read about a week ago that the ones that have not actually closed are standing empty as no staff to run them - have to wonder what it cost to build them (and then not use them). I think there were seven built earlier this year.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Yes; I read about a week ago that the ones that have not actually closed are *standing empty as no staff to run them* - have to wonder what it cost to build them (and then not use them). I think there were seven built earlier this year.


I always thought that, they were struggling and staff the wards, where they were going to get the staff from.


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Fingers crossed @kimthecat





ebonycat said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed for you xx


Thank you . I started the antibiotics today. I also contacted the head nurse as Ive not heard back from the Consultant and she said come in if I feel ok and she will ask a Dr to look at it and see if they give me the ok. So wait and see.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> My GP assessed me by photographs this afternoon and she thinks its cellulitis and i can start 5 days Anti biotics tomorrow which will end Monday. Im waiting to hear if the hospital will let me have the infusion on Tuesday.
> and I was so worried that it would be cancelled because of Covid


wishing you all the very best



Magyarmum said:


> I had an email last night from a friend to say that a mutual friend of ours who lives in Hereford has Covid. She's 84 and her partner who's clear so far is 92. So very worrying.


I'm so sorry to read this.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.

I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


----------



## willa

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


Oh bloody hell, that's terrible
41 is so so young . I hope she is able to recover from this .


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


Really sorry @Mrs Funkin i hope your friend pulls through.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thanks @Boxer123 she's "only" a friend of a colleague, I don't know her - but I am just so hopping mad.

I'm sat here crying about it and have decided I am going to email our Chief Exec, Matrons, Head of Midwifery, Head of Nursing and my MP and express my disgust that we are being forced to have more and more partners into our (very small) department because there is so much pressure from the public about "not being allowed to be there for scans and appointments and it's their right". Where is OUR protection, where is the protection for OUR family? Where are my rights not to be subjected to even more people who say they have no symptoms and then ring the department two days later to tell us that they did have but they feel bad that they didn't tell us but they didn't want to miss their scan?

I am so pissed off about it.


----------



## SbanR

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


How awful. I hope that poor woman pulls through.

As for that selfish thoughtless pairunch
I hope they can live with their conscience.


----------



## ForestWomble

Selfish, inconsiderate, idiots doesn't really say what I want to say fully. I hope that lady pulls through and I hope those people who had her husband over to do their plastering, while knowing they had covid are feeling as bad as they should.


----------



## Siskin

I’m speechless over that couple the entitled self obsessed ********

if only they could be held to account over the this. Do hope the lady recovers I dread to think what her partner might do if she doesn’t


----------



## willa

My Uncle has been put onto a ventilator


----------



## rona

willa said:


> My Uncle has been put onto a ventilator


So worrying.
Thinking of you all


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


That is unconscionable and I share your anger. 
I'm afraid this sort of thing is going on in some way or another far more than we would want to admit.
There are plenty of people out there with symptoms who refuse to do anything differently, let alone isolate. Either because people are selfish, or stupid, or just don't understand the danger, or who knows, but I do know that it is happening.

A friend of a friend of my children was at work (hardware store) and mentioned in passing he hasn't been able to smell or taste anything for the last several days. This is an 18 year old at a part-time job. He was immediately sent home and told to get a covid test. Yep, he's positive, and has been out and about like nothing is wrong. It makes you want to :Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


----------



## willa

The nurses did a Video call so that he could see my Aunt ( his Wife) beforehand.

We just pray for the best, please 2021 do the right thing and make him better


----------



## 3dogs2cats

willa said:


> The nurses did a Video call so that he could see my Aunt ( his Wife) beforehand.
> 
> We just pray for the best, please 2021 do the right thing and make him better


 Hope your uncle gets better very soon, it must be awful for your poor aunt not to be at the hospital with him! Was it your brother and his family that had Covid a couple of weeks ago? If so I hope they are all fully recovered too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> The nurses did a Video call so that he could see my Aunt ( his Wife) beforehand.
> 
> We just pray for the best, please 2021 do the right thing and make him better


What awful news 

I really hope he comes through this.


----------



## willa

3dogs2cats said:


> Hope your uncle gets better very soon, it must be awful for your poor aunt not to be at the hospital with him! Was it your brother and his family that had Covid a couple of weeks ago? If so I hope they are all fully recovered too.


Yes it was my brother and his wife. They are thankfully ok now, still no taste or smell, but otherwise fine


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @willa I am so sorry to read that. All the positive thoughts I can muster are on their way.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> wishing you all the very best
> .


Thanks Molly. The latest is that they have decided to postpone the first infusion for two weeks til the 19th jan so I'm relieved that I have certainty and thats its not long to wait. Im sure my foot will be better by then . Im trying not to walk too much but driving the few hundred yards to my local park for fresh air and a break from being indoors


----------



## kimthecat

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


There's no printable words to describe those people unch I hope your friend recovers quickly.



willa said:


> My Uncle has been put onto a ventilator


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> Thanks Molly. The latest is that they have decided to postpone the first infusion for two weeks til the 19th jan so I'm relieved that I have certainty and thats its not long to wait. Im sure my foot will be better by then . Im trying not to walk too much but driving the few hundred yards to my local park for fresh air and a break from being indoors


Oh bugger that you have to wait but at least you have a date. Take care, it must be so frustrating.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am LIVID! A friend of a colleague (aged 41) is in the hospital I work at and ventilated with Covid. How she got it is what has made me livid. She is married to a plasterer. A couple engaged his services and unbeknownst to him they had symptoms of covid. They didn't want to tell him because it's very hard to get a plasterer. He caught covid, mild case and (you know where this is going, don't you?) he gave it to his wife. SHE IS NOW FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE BECAUSE SOME SELFISH ********* WANTED THEIR ******* PLASTERING DONE.
> 
> I just can't. I have no words which aren't *****.


I am so sorry, Jeez people are so awful and selfish. I can absolutely understand your frustration and anger. It really ought to be a criminal offence.


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> My Uncle has been put onto a ventilator


So sorry. ((Hugs))


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> My Uncle has been put onto a ventilator





Mrs Funkin said:


> Thanks @Boxer123 she's "only" a friend of a colleague, I don't know her - but I am just so hopping mad.
> 
> I'm sat here crying about it and have decided I am going to email our Chief Exec, Matrons, Head of Midwifery, Head of Nursing and my MP and express my disgust that we are being forced to have more and more partners into our (very small) department because there is so much pressure from the public about "not being allowed to be there for scans and appointments and it's their right". Where is OUR protection, where is the protection for OUR family? Where are my rights not to be subjected to even more people who say they have no symptoms and then ring the department two days later to tell us that they did have but they feel bad that they didn't tell us but they didn't want to miss their scan?
> 
> I am so pissed off about it.












I hope they will listen to you . I had to have my OH with me when I had an assessment to qualify for treatment and needed him to tell me what the nurse was saying and that I understood her questions but things like blood tests etc its not necessary to have him with me.


----------



## SbanR

@willa i'm so sorry. I hope your uncle gets better.


----------



## HarlequinCat

@Mrs Funkin Thats awful, I hope she pulls through and makes 100% recovery.

And I hope the couple know what they have done to his wife and feel terrible for it. The selfishness of some people....


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm sat here crying about it and have decided I am going to email our Chief Exec, Matrons, Head of Midwifery, Head of Nursing and my MP and express my disgust that we are being forced to have more and more partners into our (very small) department because there is so much pressure from the public about "not being allowed to be there for scans and appointments and it's their right". Where is OUR protection, where is the protection for OUR family? Where are my rights not to be subjected to even more people who say they have no symptoms and then ring the department two days later to tell us that they did have but they feel bad that they didn't tell us but they didn't want to miss their scan?
> 
> I am so pissed off about it.


And there's my friend, a girl whose almost a daughter in my eyes, got to go have a termination at 27 weeks, because her baby is not viable and it would be dangerous to her to carry to term
ON HER OWN!
The one time you need someone with you, above all others
And she's got to do it alone, with no one to comfort her, not only before and after the procedure,
But
During those first gut wrenching, grief filled, moments, that you realise that the life you've grown and felt moving and heard the heartbeat of, for 6 months, is no longer there
Scans you can get a picture to show others
What will she have?
other than nightmares


----------



## Jesthar

daveos said:


> Don't know where you get your information


I have two NHS doctors in my family, one of whom is very involved on the Covid side and both of whom have access to very up to date information. I've been talking to them about the latest developments and the various vaccines tonight, as it happens. 



daveos said:


> but I have had many colleagues who have caught cover in our workplace and they have not been anywhere else and social distanced etc all have made a good recovery,


I'm sure you have had cases - in fact, I never said otherwise. Covid spreads most quickly amongst people you see a lot of in close proximity incommunal areas, like colleagues and break rooms. I'm glad to hear they have all made good recoveries - I unfortunately know a few people who have had some of the longer term side effects, some of which may be life altering 



daveos said:


> Offices can be safe staff don't sit on top of each other breaks can be staggered and windows opened and as you say you don't want to go back have heard this of a lot of people some saying they hope furlough goes on forever and it beats working.


I'm not furloughed. I never have been - I'm in a critical industry and I've been working from home full time since March. Generally speaking office staff should be one of the easiest groups to transition to working from home (as we usually only need a computer and internet/network access), so the logical thing to do is for those of us who can work from home to carry on doing so and reduce the risk of contracting/spreading Covid.

As to office environments, most these days are geared to high density desking designed to maximise the number of employees that can been crammed into a building. In order to have a chance at following social distancing rules, you have to drastically reduce the number of staff allowed in the building - so what do you do with the rest? Make them work nights instead? And is it financially viable to open a buildng for that number of staff, plus all the extra measures and cleaning. The office I worked in before March has been closed closed (as in not used at all) since lockdown started for that very reason.



daveos said:


> What you are saying is as long as you are ok then nobody else matters so teachers doctors nurses food manufacturers vets vet nurses retail staff bakers butchers etc are not important in your view then? because it seems that way to me we would all like to be at home but we can't .


No, what I am saying is it's a lot easier for office staff to work from home that it is for most other jobs, so it makes sense for us to do that and thus reduce the risk to everyone. All the people you list are very important in my view, and I stay at home as much as I can in order to protect THEM - the ones who have no choice about how and where they work. That's what lockdown is supposed to be all about.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

mrs phas said:


> And there's my friend, a girl whose almost a daughter in my eyes, got to go have a termination at 27 weeks, because her baby is not viable and it would be dangerous to her to carry to term
> ON HER OWN!
> The one time you need someone with you, above all others
> And she's got to do it alone, with no one to comfort her, not only before and after the procedure,
> But
> During those first gut wrenching, grief filled, moments, that you realise that the life you've grown and felt moving and heard the heartbeat of, for 6 months, is no longer there
> Scans you can get a picture to show others
> What will she have?
> other than nightmares


On her own for an induction, labour and delivery in that situation is completely unacceptable and stuns me. Whereabouts are they in the country? Horrific. I'm so sorry she's had to go through that  We have had cases of loss (obviously) during this time when ladies have had a diagnosis of abnormality or loss without their partner with them (thankfully it is not happening often now that partners can come in for 12 week and 20 week scans and the decision to facilitate someone attending for those two scans was based in no small part upon what may happen) but nobody has had to go through a medical TOP/labour and delivery on their own (unless that has been their choice) where we are. My condolences - and I hope she is getting some support. So very sad


----------



## mrs phas

@Mrs Funkin 
WSH 
They've also stopped, again,not only anyone going in to visit (that I can understand and agree with)
But 
Anyone sitting a death watch, for any age group, and mums staying on children's ward (anyone breastfeeding has to express and bring it everyday)
To me, 
as someone who only knows hospitals from a patient's pov, 
common sense seems to have gone out of the window


----------



## Mrs Funkin

It’s an impossible situation. It’s hideous for patients and staff alike, there are no “winners” in any of this. I’m so sad for all that is happening but we (as staff) cannot go on as we are for much longer either. Mostly I’m sad for your poor friend, I’d find it very difficult as a midwife to work somewhere that was so lacking in compassion


----------



## catz4m8z

It is horrible that people cant be with loved ones anymore in hospital. Honestly my heart breaks for them when they phone up as I can hear the pain and frustration in their voices but we dont have another option unfortunately.
Apparently my hospital is trying to work out if they can open another intensive care ward (no, we dont really have the equipment or staff for it but the alternative is not to even try and save people). We're reaching that stage sadly where we have more patients then ventilators and ICU beds available....just doing the best they can to save as many people as possible.
Not looking forward to the next few weeks either. We still have the post xmas and new years spikes to get through.


----------



## Siskin

Where my husband used to work is a newly built huge place and more or less totally open plan. All the workers hot desk and as the building is climate controlled no windows open, so working from home was a must for most of the staff as the situation was untenable. Which has been interesting as the work there is highly confidential which must have caused many challenges from a security point of view. 

My daughter had been working from home since the first lockdown and is thoroughly enjoying it and doesn’t want to go back to working in an office every day. She’s hoping she will be able to continue working mainly from home with perhaps one or two days at the theatre.


----------



## Lurcherlad

My son works for a Stockbroker and they have said, even after Covid is under control/over, they will allow working from home as much as possible as it’s worked so well and hasn’t had a negative effect on the business.

Certainly, my husband will be pushing to work from home as much as possible too. He gets far less interruptions now that colleagues can’t just walk over to him - they’re having to use their own initiative and think for themselves.


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> I hope those people who had her husband over to do their plastering, while knowing they had covid are feeling as bad as they should.


I bet they don't lose a minute's sleep about it. Someone should tell them they have ''blood on their hands''. A bit dramatic, I know, but possibly true. I wish the lady well. I completely agree with @MollySmith: it should be a criminal offence.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I bet they don't lose a minute's sleep about it. Someone should tell them they have ''blood on their hands''. A bit dramatic, I know, but possibly true. I wish the lady well. I completely agree with @MollySmith: it should be a criminal offence.


I believe it was a criminal offence to infect a sexual partner with HIV, knowing you were infected yourself but omitting to inform your partner of the fact.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I believe it was a criminal offence to infect a sexual partner with HIV, knowing you were infected yourself but omitting to inform your partner of the fact.


 Yes; I have read of cases where people were taken to court for doing just that (infecting partners of either sex). And Covid is every bit as deadly.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Yes; I have read of cases where people were taken to court for doing just that (infecting partners of either sex). And Covid is every bit as deadly.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV

*Criminal transmission of HIV*


----------



## ForestWomble

Yes, I agree, it should be a criminal offence. In the case of this poor lady, then maybe even charged with grievous bodily harm?


----------



## kittih

The difference between HIV and covid is that covid is transmissible via airborne droplets or transmitted by touching infected surfaces. For HIV to be transmitted there needs to be an exchange of body fluids so either some form of intimate contact or transferring for example blood via a syringe or via transfusion.

Whilst it is possible to demonstrate how HIV was transmitted to the recipient as there would limited mechanisms for that to happen, with covid it is virtually impossible to prove that infection was caused by a specific mechanism or that the people ill from covid passed it to the husband then to the wife. Yes this is probably what happened but as other methods of transmission are possible then it wouldn't be possible to attribute transmission to an individual beyond reasonable doubt.

Covid is so prevalent in communities now that identifying how someone became infected cannot be done with certainty unless they have extremely limited contact with the outside world.


----------



## MilleD

Someone I know personally has died from covid. I hadn't seen him for a while, but he was a lovely gentle friendly man who wouldn't hurt a fly.

He was well known in the town as he worked in B&Q, and was helpful to everyone.

RIP Ralph


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh dear  RIP Ralph.


----------



## Magyarmum

How selfish can you get?:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...parties-as-coronavirus-rules-ignored-12176774

*COVID-19: Hundreds fined over New Year's Eve parties as coronavirus rules ignored*
Rule breakers decided that "partying was more important than protecting other people", says one senior police officer.


----------



## Blackadder

Magyarmum said:


> How selfish can you get?:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...parties-as-coronavirus-rules-ignored-12176774


I don't understand why anyone is surprised, it was always going to happen  I'm not saying it's right but that's how we are as a species, social creatures. We don't do isolation/confinement well hence the mounting mental health problems.

Nearly 12 months into this with various forms of "lockdown" continually in force & I can see why there is this pent up need to meet & socialise, especially at this time of year.

I abide by the (ever changing) rules but I'll admit, it's getting harder by the day


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think there’s a big difference between an individual needing to connect with another to fend off isolation and loneliness and large groups having a New Year party tbh.


----------



## rona

Does anyone know?
If you have Covid and stay in for your sets days, but your partner then gets it 6 days later, do you have to stay in 10 days after your partner gets it even though you're about to finish your own self isolation?


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> Does anyone know?
> If you have Covid and stay in for your sets days, but your partner then gets it 6 days later, do you have to stay in 10 days after your partner gets it even though you're about to finish your own self isolation?


This should help.... ( In summary no you don't).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/explainers-54239922


----------



## rona

kittih said:


> This should help.... ( In summary no you don't).
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/explainers-54239922
> 
> View attachment 459175


Thanks
No wonder it's spreading!


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> No wonder it's spreading!


Part of the problem I think. Sure it has a couple of easily recognizable symptoms but you're just as likely to be asymptomatic or have some random symptom that you wouldnt necessarily attribute to covid.
Whilst I was waiting for my vaccination I was being nosey and listening to a care home worker chatting to someone whilst waiting to get hers. She said all her residents that caught covid seemed to have diarrhoea first before they got really unwell. I mean if you woke up one day with a bad tummy you wouldnt automatically think covid and isolate yourself.


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> Thanks
> No wonder it's spreading!


I think a main contributor to the spread is that the government only formally recognise 3 symptoms as covid: a fever, a dry continuous new cough and anosmia (no or altered smell). 
People can only get a covid test if they show one of these three symptoms.

The King's College Zoe covid symptom app has identified many cases where people are Covid positive but have none of these symptoms or if they do they happen much later on such as alteration of smell. Other symptoms which can be associated with covid are fatigue, headache, sore throat and diarrhoea. Also skin rashes and chill blain like reddening or sores on the hands and feet.

Younger healthy people may not experience the more serious symptoms such as shortness of breath and a fever may not even be noticed, especially as having the occasional chills could be put down to the cold weather.

People can shed the virus before they notice symptoms and if they don't have the classic three will often write off feeling a bit under the weather as something else and therefore not be tested or decide to self isolate as a precaution.

I was invited to have a covid test two weeks ago as part of the Zoe symptom tracker app. I log how I feel daily and two weeks ago I had a two day headache which was unexpected and some light sensitivity. I was 99% sure it wasn't covid as I avoid everyone but still have to go into the office occasionally. As they are carrying out a study to see what other symptoms may be very early indicators in people without the classic three symptoms they asked me to take a test so they can refine their data.

As expected the test was negative but it made me realise that had I had covid, by recording my symptoms on the app daily I was able to have access to a test well before someone who only showed the classic 3 symptoms the government will test for. People with some of the less common symptoms will be recommended to have a covid test if they use the Zoe app whereas they wouldn't if they respond to the government NHS triaging.


----------



## kittih

It may be if interest but these are the symptoms I am being asked to record by the Zoe symptom study app. They reflect common and less common symptoms, many of which obviously could also have an alternative cause but the extensive list does make you realise all the ways this disease could present...


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Thanks
> No wonder it's spreading!


I think the family should also be taking precautions to distance themselves, wear masks if they can't, wash hands and antibac constantly as well as ventilate the house regularly to reduce the spread between them.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

That's really interesting @kittih thank you  Mind you, half of them I have due to peri-menopause!


----------



## kittih

Mrs Funkin said:


> That's really interesting @kittih thank you  Mind you, half of them I have due to peri-menopause!


Me too, which turned out to be the cause of my light sensitivity and headaches ... completely off schedule .
They have taken details of my period status as that was part of another study but not sure if they are factoring in hormonal symptoms against covid ones when they evaluate the data to determine if you should get a covid test. 

If I know it's hormone related I usually don't record the symptoms unless they don't behave as expected.


----------



## willa

Been announced that all Primary Schools In London are to stay shut


----------



## katie200

Covid is so scary all my family got it the day before Christmas, my two sister, their kids and my mum. I am so worried about them it drives me crazy. But hoping they recover. 

I hope you all are safe and well. Xx


----------



## Magyarmum

Blackadder said:


> I don't understand why anyone is surprised, it was always going to happen  I'm not saying it's right but that's how we are as a species, social creatures. We don't do isolation/confinement well hence the mounting mental health problems.
> 
> Nearly 12 months into this with various forms of "lockdown" continually in force & I can see why there is this pent up need to meet & socialise, especially at this time of year.
> 
> I abide by the (ever changing) rules but I'll admit, it's getting harder by the day


Your lockdown hasn't been anywhere near as strict as ours is in Hungary. Although there are people who don't abide by the restrictions, most people do. With the result that although the death rate isn't coming down as fast as would be liked, our new infection rate has halved in the past month.


----------



## rona

katie200 said:


> Covid is so scary all my family got it the day before Christmas, my two sister, their kids and my mum. I am so worried about them it drives me crazy. But hoping they recover.
> 
> I hope you all are safe and well. Xx


Really worrying for you.

How old is your mum?


----------



## Siskin

I’ve heard that my next door neighbour has tested positive for covid. Haven’t seen or heard them since I found this out so not able to confirm it or not. They have a dog but not seen either of them out with her, but do have a daughter living in another village so maybe the dog is with them. Rather worrying as they are mid 60’s, not unhealthy but have had a few issues more recently.


----------



## Calvine

They are calling the second new variant a ''super-strain'' which will be even worse that the original, supposedly.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> Been announced that all Primary Schools In London are to stay shut


Has there been any mention of nurseries closing? So difficult for people to find childcare for younger children at such short notice.


----------



## Jobeth

Calvine said:


> Has there been any mention of nurseries closing? So difficult for people to find childcare for younger children at such short notice.


The advice on the 31st December was that would be open but I'd check as teachers are being encouraged to use section 44 to say that it's not safe to go to work.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We are never going to stop it spreading if people keep doing this:Banghead

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55514504


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> We are never going to stop it spreading if people keep doing this:Banghead
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55514504


Or this .......

https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/doc...WpEYq0pjkgY8n7LERDlgQttxk3g3tHhff17kySimlPsGk

*Doctor Left 'Disgusted' By Maskless Protesters Chanting 'COVID Is A Hoax' Outside Hospital*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> Or this .......
> 
> https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/doc...WpEYq0pjkgY8n7LERDlgQttxk3g3tHhff17kySimlPsGk
> 
> *Doctor Left 'Disgusted' By Maskless Protesters Chanting 'COVID Is A Hoax' Outside Hospital*


What the hell is wrong with people.:Jawdrop


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Or this .......
> 
> https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/doc...WpEYq0pjkgY8n7LERDlgQttxk3g3tHhff17kySimlPsGk
> 
> *Doctor Left 'Disgusted' By Maskless Protesters Chanting 'COVID Is A Hoax' Outside Hospital*


Why don't these people volunteer to work in the hospitals on the covid wards so they can see for themselves that it's not a hoax. I suspect they are too sheep like to do that


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Why don't these people volunteer to work in the hospitals on the covid wards so they can see for themselves that it's not a hoax. I suspect they are too sheep like to do that


And you can't blame it on the lockdown, boredom or mental health problems either.:Banghead:Banghead


----------



## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> Why don't these people volunteer to work in the hospitals on the covid wards so they can see for themselves that it's not a hoax. I suspect they are too sheep like to do that


I'm starting to think having to do a weeks unpaid community service on a covid ward would be a better deterrant to breaking the lockdown rules that a £60 fine...


----------



## Boxer123

I don’t understand the logic if you look back pandemics have always been part of our history why think this one isn’t real ? 

It’s people like this spreading it hence why it’s gone on for so long.


----------



## Jesthar

Boxer123 said:


> I don't understand the logic if you look back pandemics have always been part of our history why think this one isn't real ?
> 
> It's people like this spreading it hence why it's gone on for so long.


Oh, there are always people who think its all a big plot to control the masses, or similar. I've even seen one wingnut on FB suggesting the whole 'new strain' was a lie made up by the UK government to both distract from and justify making a brexit deal with the EU rather than going no deal (but let's not get into that, I only mention it to demonstrate how gaga some of the disbelievers are!).


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Oh, there are always people who think its all a big plot to control the masses, or similar. I've even seen one wingnut on FB suggesting the whole 'new strain' was a lie made up by the UK government to both distract from and justify making a brexit deal with the EU rather than going no deal (but let's not get into that, I only mention it to demonstrate how gaga some of the disbelievers are!).


And what about Bill Gates wanting to inject us with a microchip along with the vaccine?


----------



## catz4m8z

Boxer123 said:


> I don't understand the logic if you look back pandemics have always been part of our history why think this one isn't real ?
> .


Its down to social fudgin' media IMO. Everybody is on it and everybody claims to be an expert and too many sheeple will happily believe what Bob on Facebook says rather then trust scientific evidence. 
I mean in the Middle Ages these people probably existed too....its just that it would of been the local village idiot spouting nonsense and nobody outside the village would of heard of them!!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## HarlequinCat

Jesthar said:


> Oh, there are always people who think its all a big plot to control the masses, or similar. I've even seen one wingnut on FB suggesting the whole 'new strain' was a lie made up by the UK government to both distract from and justify making a brexit deal with the EU rather than going no deal (but let's not get into that, I only mention it to demonstrate how gaga some of the disbelievers are!).


Not just people thinking its a plot either. A lot of people are starting to think the virus is overblown. My partners sister works in a corner shop. She's had a few tests because someone she works with had it and they worked together before she realised and tested positive. OHs sister didn't catch it. There's been instances where her kids have caught colds so she tested them then (imo if you catch a cold you are not being careful enough). Shes had so many times now where she didn't have covid, she's starting to think its not that bad

The girl who caught it had it very mild. So the sister is now telling their parents its not dangerous. Even though the girl isn't in the at risk age group.

She is also saying this new spike, where it is 50,000 diagnosed a day is caused by Christmas - people getting together and shopping etc. She is completely discounting the fact there is a new strain that is 50% more virulent, which has been confirmed by scientists!

She drives me mad! She's shared pics on Facebook before of her and a group of friends, with all their heads together, all from different households not wearing masks. Yes it was when the cases were lower, but still, its not very responsible!

Rant over


----------



## Blackadder

Magyarmum said:


> And you can't blame it on the lockdown, boredom or mental health problems either.:Banghead:Banghead


So subtle, I nearly missed it


----------



## stuaz

Magyarmum said:


> Or this .......
> 
> https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/doc...WpEYq0pjkgY8n7LERDlgQttxk3g3tHhff17kySimlPsGk
> 
> *Doctor Left 'Disgusted' By Maskless Protesters Chanting 'COVID Is A Hoax' Outside Hospital*


It's not often I find myself agreeing with Piers Morgan but yes drag them into the COVID wards without PPE. Take them into the morgues and show them the dead bodies.

They need to get off Facebook, stop listening to "Fred the plumber" who has become an expert on virus transmission and open there eyes to what's in front of them.

Disgusting behaviour.


----------



## Blackadder

Magyarmum said:


> Or this .......
> 
> *Doctor Left 'Disgusted' By Maskless Protesters Chanting 'COVID Is A Hoax' Outside Hospital*


What was it Einstein said..... 
*Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.*


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> to both distract from and justify making a brexit deal with the EU


Yes . . .. reminiscent of the unbelievable ''good day to bury bad news'' when the Twin Towers were flattened. I'm sure the woman who came out with that gem had to hand in her notice.


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> Yes . . .. reminiscent of the unbelievable ''good day to bury bad news'' when the Twin Towers were flattened. I'm sure the woman who came out with that gem had to hand in her notice.


Yeah, except no-one accused the US government of blowing up the twin towers SOLEY for the purpose of burying bad news (for plenty of other reasons, yes but not just that  )


----------



## katie200

rona said:


> Really worrying for you.
> 
> How old is your mum?


 It really is worrying rona, all I do is worry, she's 50. I hope you and your family are staying safe.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> I've heard that my next door neighbour has tested positive for covid. Haven't seen or heard them since I found this out so not able to confirm it or not. They have a dog but not seen either of them out with her, but do have a daughter living in another village so maybe the dog is with them. Rather worrying as they are mid 60's, not unhealthy but have had a few issues more recently.


That's a bit close to home! 

Though, I assume you don't come into contact with them?

I wonder how they caught it though ... were they being careful or mixing with family over Xmas perhaps?

Just make sure you and OH keep safe


----------



## Lurcherlad

stuaz said:


> It's not often I find myself agreeing with Piers Morgan but yes drag them into the COVID wards without PPE. Take them into the morgues and show them the dead bodies.
> 
> They need to get off Facebook, stop listening to "Fred the plumber" who has become an expert on virus transmission and open there eyes to what's in front of them.
> 
> Disgusting behaviour.


Just seen on Facebook...


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I've heard that my next door neighbour has tested positive for covid. Haven't seen or heard them since I found this out so not able to confirm it or not. They have a dog but not seen either of them out with her, but do have a daughter living in another village so maybe the dog is with them. Rather worrying as they are mid 60's, not unhealthy but have had a few issues more recently.


Can you phone them?

I've been having text chats with my neighbour with Covid


----------



## Calvine

Retired doctors baffled by bureaucracy of enlisting to give Covid vaccine | News | The Times

Apologies if this has been posted already but I tend to skim through things. Apparently many retired NHS and other medically trained personnel discouraged from volunteering to help with vaccinating simply by the masses of red tape they have to plough through. I have posted this; there are many more articles.


----------



## piper78

There has been a massive change in my routine in the last few months due to the coronavirus as I have to spend most of time at my home. Since I am an outdoor guy, it has been very difficult for me to spend time at home but thanks to my younger brother who is a hardcore gamer, I got to play plenty of fantastic games during these tough times and spend some quality time at home. I never had an idea that paying video games can be so much fun even for the people of my age. I use to play video games in my childhood and I really enjoyed it but I thought that these video games are only for kids but after playing few great games in recent months I realized how wrong I was. I started playing Animal Crossing: New Horizons and then played a bit of call of duty: Warzone, Valorant and Assassin's Creed Valhalla. A couple of weeks back we started playing cyberpunk 2077 and even though I was really struggling at playing this game but thanks to some help from my brother and some great online communities like psychosquad forum, I have now become a pretty decent player of this game and really enjoying this game which has a lot to offer.


----------



## HarlequinCat

piper78 said:


> There has been a massive change in my routine in the last few months due to the coronavirus as I have to spend most of time at my home. Since I am an outdoor guy, it has been very difficult for me to spend time at home but thanks to my younger brother who is a hardcore gamer, I got to play plenty of fantastic games during these tough times and spend some quality time at home. I never had an idea that paying video games can be so much fun even for the people of my age. I use to play video games in my childhood and I really enjoyed it but I thought that these video games are only for kids but after playing few great games in recent months I realized how wrong I was. I started playing Animal Crossing: New Horizons and then played a bit of call of duty: Warzone, Valorant and Assassin's Creed Valhalla. A couple of weeks back we started playing cyberpunk 2077 and even though I was really struggling at playing this game but thanks to some help from my brother and some great online communities like psychosquad forum, I have now become a pretty decent player of this game and really enjoying this game which has a lot to offer.


We've been playing a lot more console games this year. And I've been enjoying playing Valhalla. We were going to get cyberpunk but heard so much about all the bugs in the game, it put us off it a bit!


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> Retired doctors baffled by bureaucracy of enlisting to give Covid vaccine | News | The Times
> 
> Apologies if this has been posted already but I tend to skim through things. Apparently many retired NHS and other medically trained personnel discouraged from volunteering to help with vaccinating simply by the masses of red tape they have to plough through. I have posted this; there are many more articles.


Honestly its not as bad as they are making out. Mostly just little half hour online courses that you can whiz through at home. I mean if thats too much effort then surely volunteering to vaccinate a load of people is going to be too much effort as well!!?


----------



## Purplecatlover

So I’m currently isolating awaiting a home test for COVID (me and the pharmacist who rang from 111 are pretty sure it’s food poisoning) but the Covid test is obviously to make sure & keep people safe.

I live in an apartment building that mostly has air b&b’s.
What’s the rules about taking my bins out, receiving takeaways//food shopping deliveries? Am I not allowed to leave my flat at all, am I able to take my bins down?, I’m so confused & want to do the best and safest thing. Obviously I need to be able to get rid of my bin bags and receive my food shopping delivery.

thanks for any advice


----------



## willa

We have a family friend who was taken into hospital with Covid, 9 days ago. She appears to be getting better, doctors tell her she’ll be home the next day, then she dips again and can’t go home. Keeps happening 

Is it normal to appear to be recovering enough to be discharged , then the following day go downhill ? Full of ups and downs


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> Is it normal to appear to be recovering enough to be discharged , then the following day go downhill ? Full of ups and downs


Its not uncommon for people to deteriorate 10-14 days after diagnosis (my cousin was doing well at home then had to be admitted to hospital after 14 days). Also it can be difficult to wean people off of oxygen, it can take alot longer then you would expect esp for previously young healthy people.


----------



## rona

Has anyone tried to turn the track & trace app off?

Because of the mess up with OHs, we had decided to turn it off while in the house and on when out.........but.........he can't turn it off??

Is it just because he's supposed to be self isolating?


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Has anyone tried to turn the track & trace app off?
> 
> Because of the mess up with OHs, we had decided to turn it off while in the house and on when out.........but.........he can't turn it off??
> 
> Is it just because he's supposed to be self isolating?


You can turn off the contact tracing on the IPhone app just by 'switching' the icon across. I only have it to sign into places and you can easily delete it.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jesthar said:


> I'm starting to think having to do a weeks unpaid community service on a covid ward would be a better deterrant to breaking the lockdown rules that a £60 fine...


This was posted on Facebook


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ says he may need to take strong action in a few weeks, why is he waiting, things are getting worse by the day why not do it NOW.:Banghead


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Honestly its not as bad as they are making out. Mostly just little half hour online courses that you can whiz through at home. I mean if thats too much effort then surely volunteering to vaccinate a load of people is going to be too much effort as well!!?


 OK: I would not know, not being a volunteer myself, but have seen it in three papers (not including DM) so thought there might be some truth to it, albeit a very small amount.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> BJ says he may need to take strong action in a few weeks, why is he waiting, things are getting worse by the day why not do it NOW.:Banghead


 I think it's all the dithering and eleventh-hour decisions are making some people rebellious and reluctant to comply. But BJ will obviously be doing what supposedly professional medical advisers are telling him to do. What happens/doesn't happen in Tier five? I am still doing what I did (or rather didn't) do during the lockdowns, though I realise that many people aren't.


----------



## daveos

I think we will be in a full lockdown by the end of the week it is getting so bad ministers are panicking again should never have got to this look at New Zealand how well they handled it and look at our lot now they are ignoring instructions on how to give second dose of cover jab I would not trust them to run my bath.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Really we should stop all domestic flights. We should have stopped them from the first sign it was getting bad!


Just at a petrol station and just watched as 2 people went in without masks


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> BJ says he may need to take strong action in a few weeks, why is he waiting, things are getting worse by the day why not do it NOW.:Banghead


yes, thats what is bugging me. Stop saying things are getting worse and we probably will need a more extreme lockdown...just ***ing well Do IT!!:Rage
Its all the mixed messages and fannying about that are confusing people.



Calvine said:


> OK: I would not know, not being a volunteer myself, but have seen it in three papers (not including DM) so thought there might be some truth to it, albeit a very small amount.


The qualifications they are asking for are the same thing other NHS staff have to do. Most of it makes sense like anaphylaxsis, fire, resus training (even safeguarding in case you get a vulnerable person come in). Only one that seems excessive is the radicalisation one, Ive sat through that lecture and Ive never met anybody I thought was a terrorist in the last 20 yrs!!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

HarlequinCat said:


> Just at a petrol station and just watched as 2 people went in without masks


I think if you are anywhere where other people are around even more than 2 metres away wearing masks should be made Law and if you don't wear one then there should be heavy fines.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think if you are anywhere where other people are around even more than 2 metres away wearing masks should be made Law and if you don't wear one then there should be heavy fines.


It appears (to me, anyway) that they can only_ suggest_ that masks should be worn and no-one is actually enforcing it. And _suggesting_ that you go shopping alone (obviously if you have a small child you can't leave it unsupervised and alone); but just today I saw a group of FOUR adults at a self-service till, there was no way they could all get within the dividing barriers - and there was a ''security man'' on the door supposedly checking that this was not happening. It beggars belief; and they will likely infect people who have tried to comply with the rules. No wonder we are heading for another lockdown.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> It appears (to me, anyway) that they can only_ suggest_ that masks should be worn and no-one is actually enforcing it. And _suggesting_ that you go shopping alone (obviously if you have a small child you can't leave it unsupervised and alone); but just today I saw a group of FOUR adults at a self-service till, there was no way they could all get within the dividing barriers - and there was a ''security man'' on the door supposedly checking that this was not happening. It beggars belief; and they will likely infect people who have tried to comply with the rules. No wonder we are heading for another lockdown.


That's the problem, some people just don't care.


----------



## rona

Just seen 5 workmen with their heads down one hole, none had a mask


----------



## LittleEms

I am sadly no longer surprised at some people's attitudes.
My mother works at a dentist and the other day had someone come to an emergency appt. Refused to wear a mask, refused to answer any questions re covid. Didn't care it is all for the safety of the dentists who are doing one of the most dangerous jobs in this situation! Apparently she stormed off in a huff and told my mother not to bother helping her!


----------



## Happy Paws2

BJ has just said "We have a surging epidemic and new measures will be announced shortly" has someone just woke him up.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Retired doctors baffled by bureaucracy of enlisting to give Covid vaccine | News | The Times
> 
> Apologies if this has been posted already but I tend to skim through things. Apparently many retired NHS and other medically trained personnel discouraged from volunteering to help with vaccinating simply by the masses of red tape they have to plough through. I have posted this; there are many more articles.


The health minister said this morning they were going to cut down on the red tape.


----------



## willa

Happy Paws2 said:


> BJ has just said "We have a surging epidemic and new measures will be announced shortly" has someone just woke him up.


It's so ridiculous, I would laugh if it wasn't so serious.
Wtf wait to announce these new measures. Not like we have about 54,000 new cases a day & hundreds of deaths eh ‍♀


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> BJ has just said "We have a surging epidemic and new measures will be announced shortly" has someone just woke him up.


yup...'announced shortly'...'in due course'...'soon'....'any minute now, honestly, I really mean it this time!':Banghead

This government cares more about popularity ratings then keeping people alive.:Shifty


----------



## daveos

I really wish we could sack the government from day 1 off this pandemic the response has been pathetic it should never have got to this stage.
SAGE are also useless remember how they handled the foot and mouth in 2001 another fiasco.
Full lockdown now Boris stop people leaving their areas say a 10 mile radius only essential travel to work and night time curfew unless a key worker.
Stop all flights from Africa we can't take the risk of that new strain.


----------



## ForestWomble

daveos said:


> I really wish we could sack the government from day 1 off this pandemic the response has been pathetic it should never have got to this stage.
> SAGE are also useless remember how they handled the foot and mouth in 2001 another fiasco.
> Full lockdown now Boris stop people leaving their areas say a 10 mile radius only essential travel to work and night time curfew unless a key worker.
> *Stop all flights from Africa we can't take the risk of that new strain*.


Stop all domestic flights full stop.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> This government cares more about popularity ratings then keeping people alive


I thought it was more about keeping the worker drones working


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> I thought it was more about keeping the worker drones working


Probably alot of that too. Protecting the economy whilst being seen to be protecting our civil liberties and 'human right' to go to the pub for a **** up!
Although TBH I think the States are a worse offender for when it comes to putting money before public health.

IMO though they just dont want to be seen as the bad guy and the government that 'ruined christmas'. They havent worked out yet that all most of us care about is still being here to see next christmas!


----------



## tabelmabel

That's Scotland back in full March style lockdown from midnight tonight for the whole of january at least. Probably longer. Legally enforceable.


----------



## willa

I’ll give it 24 hours before Boris follows saying we are back in lockdown.


----------



## tabelmabel

willa said:


> New I'll give it 24 hours before Boris follows saying we are back in lockdown.


Ha ha i think you're over estimating boris' decisiveness!!! Boris will be dithering for another week at least:Hilarious


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> Ha ha i think you're over estimating boris' decisiveness!!! Boris will be dithering for another week at least:Hilarious


If he does that people will be dying in the car parks outside A&E depts across the country.

No joke....


----------



## tabelmabel

Well hopefully the public in england will get in and keep themselves safe. Does anyone actually wait for boris to make his mind up?!

We can all see what's happening. Get in. Dont travel. Dont mingle. Does anyone need boris to say it. Really.


Although you have schools in down there dont you. I dont know. Im glad im in scotland really.

You are right. It is no joke. Hopefully those of you that can stay in and not have to go out to schools and work will do.


----------



## daveos

tabelmabel said:


> Well hopefully the public in england will get in and keep themselves safe. Does anyone actually wait for boris to make his mind up?!
> 
> We can all see what's happening. Get in. Dont travel. Dont mingle. Does anyone need boris to say it. Really.
> 
> Although you have schools in down there dont you. I dont know. Im glad im in scotland really.
> 
> You are right. It is no joke. Hopefully those of you that can stay in and not have to go out to schools and work will do.


Im afraid a segment of the public don't care anymore they are selfish morons tighter restrictions are needed for such people a few spoil it for everybody.


----------



## daveos

Meanwhile Boris is Dither Dither Dither and some more Dither he needs to listen to Jeremy hunt he wants a proper lockdown borders closed etc.


----------



## willa

8PM tonight. Boris live address to the Nation . Parliament recalled on Wednesday to discuss the new rules


----------



## Lurcherlad

LittleEms said:


> I am sadly no longer surprised at some people's attitudes.
> My mother works at a dentist and the other day had someone come to an emergency appt. Refused to wear a mask, refused to answer any questions re covid. Didn't care it is all for the safety of the dentists who are doing one of the most dangerous jobs in this situation! Apparently she stormed off in a huff and told my mother not to bother helping her!


Tbh I would have asked her to leave if she wouldn't cooperate!


----------



## LittleEms

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh I would have asked her to leave if she wouldn't cooperate!


I would have done too!
My mother is a 'help everyone' person and of course as a medical facility they have to help where they can. But there is a limit!!


----------



## willa

If schools are told to shut permanently I wonder if nurseries / childcare will be the same , as back In March


----------



## Calvine

LittleEms said:


> I am sadly no longer surprised at some people's attitudes.
> My mother works at a dentist and the other day had someone come to an emergency appt. Refused to wear a mask, refused to answer any questions re covid. Didn't care it is all for the safety of the dentists who are doing one of the most dangerous jobs in this situation! Apparently she stormed off in a huff and told my mother not to bother helping her!


Oh dear; instead of just being a bit grateful that someone was seeing her. It does make you wonder.


----------



## LittleEms

Calvine said:


> Oh dear; instead of just being a bit grateful that someone was seeing her. It does make you wonder.


Clearly she wasn't in that much pain after all


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> If schools are told to shut permanently I wonder if nurseries / childcare will be the same , as back In March


Heaven knows. If both parents are working from home (as per government advice) it will be impossible if they have two toddlers screaming round the house. Some parents are saying they only found out their children would be home from school today via FB (which not everyone chooses to frequent) or text message (not blaming the government there, seems it has been down to the unions or the individual school).


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Heaven knows. If both parents are working from home (as per government advice) it will be impossible if they have two toddlers screaming round the house. Some parents are saying they only found out their children would be home from school today via FB (which not everyone chooses to frequent) or text message (not blaming the government there, seems it has been down to the unions or the individual school).


I thought most schools communicate things like that by text message or the like. Or a notice on the school website?


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> 'human right' to go to the pub for a **** up!


What really totally stupefied me was the crap about what constitutes a 'substantial meal'? Some people thought it might be a slice of pizza, but they were pretty damned sure that a Scotch egg did not meet the criteria. Anyway, you could only get a pint if you bought one (a substantial meal, I mean). So, according to one landlord, people were coming in, ordering . . .whatever . . . and leaving it uneaten, but he had done his bit by selling them the 'substantial meal' and the law had been upheld, so well done that publican.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> What really totally stupefied me was the crap about what constitutes a 'substantial meal'? Some people thought it might be a slice of pizza, but they were pretty damned sure that a Scotch egg did not meet the criteria. Anyway, you could only get a pint if you bought one (a substantial meal, I mean). So, according to one landlord, people were coming in, ordering . . .whatever . . . and leaving it uneaten, but he had done his bit by selling them the 'substantial meal' and the law had been upheld, so well done that publican.


Apart from a huge waste of good food just to get a drink at a pub. How ridiculous, and I don't mean the rule about having to have a substantial meal. Are people that desperate to drink in a pub that they waste money and food just to do so? Quite honestly I think that's pathetic


----------



## LittleEms

Siskin said:


> Apart from a huge waste of good food just to get a drink at a pub. How ridiculous, and I don't mean the rule about having to have a substantial meal. Are people that desperate to drink in a pub that they waste money and food just to do so? Quite honestly I think that's pathetic


Exactly my thoughts. I know for some a trip to the pub is sometimes the only social time they have in a week (my dad) but it is truly ridiculous. Even he hasn't been since March and he used to go 4 times a week at least as it's the only conversation he has outside myself and my mother. If he can cope with that then surely everyone else who just wants a drink can too.


----------



## willa

Tier 5 incoming


----------



## Siskin

Is tier 5 a lockdown in all but name do you think?


----------



## LittleEms

Siskin said:


> Is tier 5 a lockdown in all but name do you think?


I reckon so. They've said I think that they don't want to lock the whole country down if they can help it (even though they should!) so I imagine that's how they're getting around it.


----------



## willa

Yes I think Tier 5 will be the same as back in March. Except outdoor exercise will be allowed for more than 1 hour !


----------



## daveos

Jeremy hunt has some good ideas such as forcing arrivals in the uk to isolate rather than relying on their goodwill.


----------



## willa

Yes I think all arrivals should have to have a Negative test . I mean every other country has restrictions apart from us


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Apart from a huge waste of good food just to get a drink at a pub. How ridiculous, and I don't mean the rule about having to have a substantial meal. Are people that desperate to drink in a pub that they waste money and food just to do so? Quite honestly I think that's pathetic


I agree too, Ireland as in the Southern independent one nothing to do with being British just to clarify did this first about pubs and meals; they also had a time limit. As soon as it was announced people knew it would happen, people literally buying food putting it aside just to drink drink drink. Social media sold it well...i was hoping our Government would be learning from other countries obviously not!

Am currently upstairs in my home and all I can hear is traffic...so much different to the first lockdown when there was hardly any cars on the road although it did seem to take my area sometime to 'get it' . I really don't think a tier system is working. Well not around here it doesn't.. Tier doesn't worry people. Doesn't to commute to anything of importance. Lockdown does to some extent. If we are in lockdown people understand better the consequences of these words.


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> Apart from a huge waste of good food just to get a drink at a pub. How ridiculous, and I don't mean the rule about having to have a substantial meal. Are people that desperate to drink in a pub that they waste money and food just to do so? Quite honestly I think that's pathetic


 Totally pathetic . . . they could buy at Tesco and drink at home if it is that important. I read recently that UK households waste something like four million tons of food annually, so we should not be surprised - absolutely shameful really.


----------



## tabelmabel

willa said:


> New If schools are told to shut permanently I wonder if nurseries / childcare will be the same , as back In March


It is in Scotland. Just keyworker and vulnerable children here, same as march in all respects.

The only difference is that we can go out for exercise multiple times a day. Or more than once anyway.


----------



## Siskin

When we drove down to the vets this afternoon I thought it didn’t seem too busy although busier the last March. I’ve just checked the figures for my area and we are well below the average for positive tests. The whole of the Cotswolds figure is also dropping after rising sharply over the last month or so, but there could be a lag in the figures collection due to the holidays.


----------



## Boxer123




----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> When we drove down to the vets this afternoon I thought it didn't seem too busy although busier the last March. I've just checked the figures for my area and we are well below the average for positive tests. The whole of the Cotswolds figure is also dropping after rising sharply over the last month or so, but there could be a lag in the figures collection due to the holidays.


Honestly here, people I think have just got fed up or even forgotten or in most cases sick of hearing about the pandemic so don't listen and carry on regardless. Our supermarkets have been horrendous and I don't think it's just because its the run up to Christmas. As soon as cold weather hit, it just seemed no one cared about amounts in super markets, whose coming in shops. All in all there have only about 3/4 retailers who have kept to the same policies throughout which I applaud to be honest.

@tabelmabel exercise is barely mentioned as an excuse to go out. It's usually written but never spoken. So I have deduced that Boris is one of those fair weather walkers. Enough said!

Love it @Boxer123


----------



## Magyarmum

daveos said:


> Jeremy hunt has some good ideas such as forcing arrivals in the uk to isolate rather than relying on their goodwill.


When you arrive in Hungary, if you haven't had the necessary tests, you have to spend 10 days in quarantine. You're given this sticker to put on your front door and the police check every day to make sure you're not breaking your quarantine. There's a heavy fine if you do. Today the new infection rate was about 900 new cases, down from 6000 at the beginning of December. The figure could be low though due to the holiday


----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> It is in Scotland. Just keyworker and vulnerable children here, same as march in all respects.
> 
> The only difference is that we can go out for exercise multiple times a day. Or more than once anyway.


I think some of the wording in the new Scottish rules is far too wooly.

For example, one of the permitted reasons for meeting in someone's home includes -

_providing emotional support for someone whose wellbeing is at risk_

Now I do understand this is important and necessary, but there are people who will absolutely play on it.


----------



## tabelmabel

Does it say anything about meeting a friend for outdoor exercise, @JoanneF ?

I wonder if i can still meet my dog walking pal who lives by me. That was banned in march, when it was one hr of exercise but allowed when they eased it up in may june or whenever.

I can see the need for the going into vulnerable person house - hopefully it wont be too much abused


----------



## tabelmabel

Just seen on tv news - meeting one person outdoors from another h h is ok.


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> I wonder if i can still meet my dog walking pal who lives by me. That was banned in march, when it was one hr of exercise but allowed when they eased it up in may june or whenever.


Surely you could just do a socially distanced walk, cant be too difficult to walk together but stay far enough apart!
TBF any contact with anyone these days is just like playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.....only with covid not Kevin obviously!!


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. I drove through town today. Packed with people shopping for 3 kings tomorrow. Everyone was wearing a mask but it was rammed. 3 kings is being done differently, no parade, but this many people around means cases are bound to rocket. I think lockdown tightens back up from the 6th Jan.


----------



## lullabydream

JoanneF said:


> I think some of the wording in the new Scottish rules is far too wooly.
> 
> For example, one of the permitted reasons for meeting in someone's home includes -
> 
> _providing emotional support for someone whose wellbeing is at risk_
> 
> Now I do understand this is important and necessary, but there are people who will absolutely play on it.


I would say if your wellbeing is at risk.. Then you will have other agencies to vouch for you. I know I currently do.

I don't think shaking a bottle of tablets at someone while having a glass of prosecco in one hand and music blaring would count.

Police should be able to suss out those people in real need. Like every rule/guidance people will find ways out of it. I know someone whose got 'special needs' wears the lanyard for face mask exclusion but actually wears a face mask. She just doesn't like wearing a face mask on the bus because she likes to eat and drink! Her words, and she's entitled to a lanyard because they were giving them out on the counter at the bank!


----------



## tabelmabel

catz4m8z said:


> Surely you could just do a socially distanced walk, cant be too difficult to walk together but stay far enough apart!
> TBF any contact with anyone these days is just like playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.....only with covid not Kevin obviously!!


I can now i know it's allowed, @catz4m8z but i have been sticking to the rules to the letter from the very start. If it wasnt allowed, i would not do it. It wasnt allowed march and april through may. So i walked alone.

In fact this latest announcement makes no difference to me. I have only been leaving my house one every other day to walk the dogs (alternating with OH)

I did nip up to sains (right by my house) the other evening about 9.30pm when it is quiet but, apart from that, i havent stepped outside since early december.

I have surprised myself with how rule bound i have been tbh.


----------



## tabelmabel

lullabydream said:


> I would say if your wellbeing is at risk.. Then you will have other agencies to vouch for you. I know I currently do.


Yes - that's what i was thinking. A friend of mine does go into homes of elderly people to help with companionship, cooking, picking up prescriptions and general help. But they will all be recognised as being in need.

And in an emergency - if someone did need to go into the home of a friend/relative on grounds on concern - most of these people will have had either current or previous engagement with mental health services (or - be in the system somewhere on a waiting list)

My son is well plugged into agencies. Obvs, we are here with him just now but i certainly hope someone would come in and help him if anything happened to us.


----------



## JoanneF

lullabydream said:


> Police should be able to suss out those people in real need. Like every rule/guidance people will find ways out of it.


This is what frustrates me. The police won't have the resources to do that, and people will bend the rules to suit themselves. So the virus will keep spreading.


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> I did nip up to sains (right by my house) the other evening about 9.30pm when it is quiet but, apart from that, i havent stepped outside since early december.
> I have surprised myself with how rule bound i have been tbh.


I dont blame you. I dont go out unless its to walk my dogs outside of work unless its absolutely necessary. I would of happily kept to a much stricter lockdown then we were given.....just sucks I have to go hang out with wardful of covid patients!!:Hilarious (I cant wait for them all to be gone, just coz it means they are all at home happy and healthy and not ill).


----------



## tabelmabel

Woohoo! I have nicola here on tv and she is 'confident' i will have had my covid vaccination by May!


That is sooner than the uk calculator said - it said june. We have booked to go to blackpool in october. I dont feel confident to make any plans before then.


----------



## tabelmabel

JoanneF said:


> This is what frustrates me. The police won't have the resources to do that, and people will bend the rules to suit themselves. So the virus will keep spreading.


Im a bit more confident than you that most of us will stick to the guidance and that will be sufficient to keep things under control for now. Rule breakers are always factored in and as long as most of us comply, this will work.

We just need to focus on keeping ourselves safe and not get annoyed with others. We cant control the actions of others so let's not stress and just keep it simple. Stay in. Stay safe.


----------



## lullabydream

JoanneF said:


> This is what frustrates me. The police won't have the resources to do that, and people will bend the rules to suit themselves. So the virus will keep spreading.


I know what you mean.. I feel holier than thou sticking to the rules when others just don't get it at all!
People though are just lacking common sense with it all. Example from today was one of the people my OH is working with tomorrow. At a different place of work than where my OH usually works.. He goes there once a week, part of his job. Anyway the person he usually works with tomorrow got a phone call to say he had to isolate due to his daughter having Covid-19 or suspected Covid-19. Instead of going straight home to isolate he popped in to see my OH to explain this, possibly talked about work too. OH says no need for a face to face meeting. It wouldn't surprise me if this person nipped to a shop think oh well I have a face mask, better get some food since I have to isolate for a while now. Since common sense seems to be lost on most people.


----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> Im a bit more confident than you that most of us will stick to the guidance


I hope you are right. I have just seen someone nearby flouting the rules all the way through since March and it has really frustrated me.


----------



## lullabydream

tabelmabel said:


> Im a bit more confident than you that most of us will stick to the guidance and that will be sufficient to keep things under control for now. Rule breakers are always factored in and as long as most of us comply, this will work.
> 
> We just need to focus on keeping ourselves safe and not get annoyed with others. We cant control the actions of others so let's not stress and just keep it simple. Stay in. Stay safe.


I absolutely agree to focus on what you are doing and not others. 
I know the staticians factor in those who break rules, but I sometimes wonder how accurate those are now with hindsight. I remember Boris thanking all the supermarkets for their astounding efforts. Which they have worked through it all, but I thought had they actually stepped inside of a supermarket as we all queued practised social distance outside but inside no one seem to care until we queue to pay again! Just my perspective


----------



## 3dogs2cats

tabelmabel said:


> Im a bit more confident than you that most of us will stick to the guidance and that will be sufficient to keep things under control for now. Rule breakers are always factored in and as long as most of us comply, this will work.
> 
> We just need to focus on keeping ourselves safe and not get annoyed with others. We cant control the actions of others so let's not stress and just keep it simple. Stay in. Stay safe.


 Very sensible advice @tabelmabel. What is the situation with your vets in Scotland? I am a bit concerned if England does go back into a lockdown similar to March the vets will be only seeing (in person as opposed via video) emergencies, local branches may shut again and a reduction in staff so cant see regular vet. We went through all of that back in the spring, my boy who has an ongoing condition was unable to be seen and it was always a different vet on the phone consultations. I really hope as vets are now fully Covid secure the RCVS will advise they can carry on!


----------



## lullabydream

JoanneF said:


> I hope you are right. I have just seen someone nearby flouting the rules all the way through since March and it has really frustrated me.


Have you got my neighbour?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Apparently, there are several incidents now of different generations from the same family recently admitted to hospital with Covid.... could they have socialised together over Xmas and spread it among themselves .... or just all really unlucky to have contracted it (at the same time) but independently from different sources?


----------



## tabelmabel

@3dogs2cats - im not sure but i assume it will be back to emergencies only again.

However, we never got back into my local vets - our animals are still collected from the car park, returned to the carpark and we pay by holding up a contactless card at the glass (closed) window!!!

This is due to my vet having a small waiting room - it isnt scottish law that no one can go in!



lullabydream said:


> as we all queued


I never queued once @lullabydream - a very canny shopper i was. I totally abandoned supermarket shopping. At the start of lockdown in march, i emptied out both my freezers and all my cupboards.

Omg, i was stocked for months. We found venison in there that had been there since 2013!! 7 yrs out of date but it was delicious and none of us got ill. That was my riskiest. Lots of frozen veg past dates that i made use of. Lots of red lentils, rice of every kind, pasta, herbs, spices, sauces. I amazed myself!

My cupboards i could not believe the amount of base ingredients in there.

We do have a local sains here and the queueing was massive. I dont queue well at all. I took one look and thought 'not for me'

And we have one very small co op and 2 even smaller 'corner shops' not true corner shops as they arent on corners but that kind of size.

And we have an excellent butcher.

So i looked at my ingredients and i had the bases of multiple dishes there. Then if i needed to add anything, i nipped round to one of the small shops. And there was never a queue.

Also, the small shops reacted fast to what was short. They even had yeast, flour, castor sugar and huge catering sized packs of rice and pasta.

I managed through the first 6 weeks like this. Then i drove to tesco and got a click and collect.

Another 6 weeks through. And then (as i am an aldi shopper and was not used to tesco pricing) i went to aldi about 7pm one evening. No queue and well stocked.

And i think that was me right through lockdown with no queuing. I cooked everything from scratch and used up all that out of date food. It became like a project for me!

Looking at what i had and thinking 'what can i make out of this?'

Although the smaller shops are dearer, it worked out cheaper as, if i needed 2 tins of tuna, i popped along and bought 2 tins of tuna.

Whereas at sains, if i pop there for 2 tins of tuna, i come out 50 quid lighter!!


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> could they have socialised together over Xmas and spread it among themselves .


I was wondering how much of this was Christmas - and how much was the new variant. The folk that caught it Christmas day will be showing symptoms by now wont they.

Perhaps they think it was worth it. Would be interesting to know if they still do on reflection now they are ill. We all knew the risks of meeting folk at Christmas and those that went ahead must have thought it was worth it.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> I was wondering how much of this was Christmas - and how much was the new variant. The folk that caught it Christmas day will be showing symptoms by now wont they.
> 
> Perhaps they think it was worth it. Would be interesting to know if they still do on reflection now they are ill. We all knew the risks of meeting folk at Christmas and those that went ahead must have thought it was worth it.


I've watched a lot of interviews with doctors today saying that it can't all be blamed on the new mutation because it still relies on people to spread it.


----------



## JoanneF

lullabydream said:


> Have you got my neighbour?


I think so!


----------



## Siskin




----------



## lullabydream

@tabelmabel I wish I had big cupboards, and a large freezer sadly not. Plus youngest son had taken over cooking about 6 months before lock down so cupboards, fridge freezer nothing out of date ever now!

I did however suggest using the local corner shops to people must have been on the thread.. I get on lovely with those who work at our local one.. Even though I did the biggest makeover ever from going shoulder length light blondish hair to shortest pixie cut and grey! Have said bye bye to hair dye. My roots were getting bigger and bigger and I just thought when we finally get hair appointments am going to be au natural


----------



## mrs phas

About time someone showed him where his, alleged, man parts are


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I was wondering how much of this was Christmas - and how much was the new variant. The folk that caught it Christmas day will be showing symptoms by now wont they.
> 
> Perhaps they think it was worth it. Would be interesting to know if they still do on reflection now they are ill. We all knew the risks of meeting folk at Christmas and those that went ahead must have thought it was worth it.


Indeed.

Of course, they have a hospital bed .... others may not be so lucky.

Boris has now announced we're back in Lockdown (Tier 5) so, hopefully, we'll see a reduction in cases soon.


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Of course, they have a hospital bed .... others may not be so lucky.
> 
> Boris has now announced we're back in Lockdown (Tier 5) so, hopefully, we'll see a reduction in cases soon.


So thats the whole country? Im still not sure what the difference is between tier 4 and 5 . Schools closing and workers being furloughed again ?


----------



## Elles

I’m not an expert, but wouldn’t it make more sense to vaccinate people who might spread it, than to prioritise elderly folk in care homes who never go out?


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> So thats the whole country? Im still not sure what the difference is between tier 4 and 5 . Schools closing and workers being furloughed again ?


Well, I think the biggest thing is getting people to take it seriously and STAY HOME and stick to their own household.


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> I'm not an expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to vaccinate people who might spread it, than to prioritise elderly folk in care homes who never go out?


At the moment I think the NHS is the priority, stop the oldies getting I'll, take the pressure off


----------



## tabelmabel

lullabydream said:


> @tabelmabel I wish I had big cupboards, and a large freezer sadly not.


Back in the late 90s, i had 3 young kids, i did have OH too but we were skint and i used to shop at asda in those days and buy all that cheap food. It was all that bogof or even buy one and get 2 free.

And i only had a small freezer so i was missing out on all these "bargains" I didnt have enough freezer space for them all.

So we got this huge 6 ft freezer especially to fill full of all those massive cheap pizzas and big bags of frozen chips asda did in those days! And i think it did serve its purpose for the first 2 or 3 years. I just filled it full of frozen asda freebies.

Once I had a bit more time on my hands, I realised it was far cheaper to cook a big meal from scratch and split it between us all. So now i do tend to have a lot of tinned tomatoes in my cupboards and frozen onions and mushrooms have replaced the frozen pizzas and chips. And i do tend to buy stuff on offer (like the venison) chuck it in the freezer and then forget its there. For 7 years!

Same freezer, still going strong after 22yrs. Was a good buy, that.


----------



## tabelmabel

Elles said:


> I'm not an expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to vaccinate people who might spread it, than to prioritise elderly folk in care homes who never go out?


Lol i like your thinking!!!

I thought a similar thing - my thoughts were that it would make sense to vaccinate the working population aged 40 to 60s first as they are out and about, economically active and also in the at risk age group for getting very ill.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> I'm not an expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to vaccinate people who might spread it, than to prioritise elderly folk in care homes who never go out?


Well they've only been isolated from their loved ones for almost a year so far, so a bit longer won't hurt eh?

Nice.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Well they've only been isolated from their loved ones for almost a year so far, so a bit longer won't hurt eh?


But if their younger relatives (in my 40 to 60s group) got priority, wouldnt that mean that they would be safe to visit those elderly people safely? As they were vaccinated and not able then to pass it on?

Though i agree with rona - this is to do with not overwhelming the nhs. That is why they are prioritising older people. Nothing to do with wanting to relieve them from lonliness. Governments dont think like that, surely.


----------



## Guest

England is back in lockdown.
In my opinion about time. The NHS is at the point of being overwhelmed and nobody is sticking to the tier 4 restrictions and staying at home. Hopefully now people will stay at home?


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> But if their younger relatives (in my 40 to 60s group) got priority, wouldnt that mean that they would be safe to visit those elderly people safely? As they were vaccinated and not able then to pass it on?
> 
> Though i agree with rona - this is to do with not overwhelming the nhs. That is why they are prioritising older people. Nothing to do with wanting to relieve them from lonliness. Governments dont think like that, surely.


The relatives might not have the virus but surely they could still carry it in?


----------



## tabelmabel

Ah - i didnt realize that @Lurcherlad. So, once we have had our vaccinations, we still arent free to go about then - we can still pass it on?


----------



## HarlequinCat

I think at the moment you're damned if you don't, damned if you do. I can get the argument that vaccinating the younger people who have jobs would be a good idea, since furlough, and so many jobs lost so far is very bad for the economy. Not to mention small businesses that have worked so hard to stay afloat are closing down and are in danger of closing down. A lot of people are worried about keeping a roof over their heads, a vaccine for the younger first would massively help this... And could reduce the risk of carers spreading to their dependants.

But I can also see that the old and vulnerable are at more risk from it and could have more serious complications if they caught it. That the vulnerable need to be looked after as a priority.


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> The relatives might not have the virus but surely they could still carry it in?


The 1st dose of the COVID-19 vaccine will give you some protection from coronavirus. But you need to have the 2 doses of the vaccine to give you the best protection.
*
There is a chance you might still get or spread coronavirus even if you have the vaccine.*

This means it is important to:


continue to follow social distancing guidance
if you can, wear something that covers your nose and mouth in places where it's hard to stay away from other people
from: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/


----------



## tabelmabel

Btw im watching 24hrs in police custody ch 4. Off topic i know but it is very interesting!!


----------



## MollySmith

Elles said:


> I'm not an expert, but wouldn't it make more sense to vaccinate people who might spread it, than to prioritise elderly folk in care homes who never go out?


the problem is that people in care homes don't go out. So this means that they are very vulnerable people and sitting targets - I'm sure you've seen the reports - as are those who care for them. My niece who works in a care home, had a mildish dose of Covid earlier this year and is now in hospital again.

People who may spread it, do have a choice, in the main to stay at home. Of course it's impossible to broadside at demographics but there were five a side football matches going on in a park nearby in a tier 4 area and if folk like that got the vaccine first, there would be huge unrest. It's a two pronged approach I feel, Vaccine _and_ obeying the rules. Not rewarding people for breaking them - you might not have meant that, maybe just those who need to go out and earn.


----------



## MollySmith

tabelmabel said:


> But if their younger relatives (in my 40 to 60s group) got priority, wouldnt that mean that they would be safe to visit those elderly people safely? As they were vaccinated and not able then to pass it on?
> 
> Though i agree with rona - this is to do with not overwhelming the nhs. That is why they are prioritising older people. Nothing to do with wanting to relieve them from lonliness. Governments dont think like that, surely.


But there's also the growing number of elderly who have no relatives or friends to visit. I agree, the Government don't think like this - a good friend tried to get funding for a national network to support people who are ageing without children for years, not a chance. It's not sexy so no money.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> Ah - i didnt realize that @Lurcherlad. So, once we have had our vaccinations, we still arent free to go about then - we can still pass it on?


I would assume so.

If I were vaccinated and out and about touching things and didn't antibac or wash my hands before visiting the care home, I would assume I could have live virus on my hand to infect grandma - directly or by touching something in her room which she then touches?

Isn't that why it's HANDS, FACE & SPACE?


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> Ah - i didnt realize that @Lurcherlad. So, once we have had our vaccinations, we still arent free to go about then - we can still pass it on?


I think the concerns lie in where the virus might be hiding on or in the body in a place where the vaccine antibodies can't neutralise them such as in phlegm held in the throat or snot. So if you cough or sneeze near someone who is not vaccinated then it's possible to spread the virus this way. It's unknown at present whether the antibodies are able to deal with this. So if the vaccinated younger person goes to see their granny and coughs near them then the droplets could contain the virus.
The following is an American report and explains it well

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/once-you-get-the-covid-19-vaccine-can-you-still-infect-others/


----------



## MollySmith

Anyway - I just wanted to ask if everyone is bearing up? I'm sure we all expected this news but that's not to say we might not be struggling with it.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> I would assume so.
> 
> If I were vaccinated and out and about touching things and didn't antibac or wash my hands before visiting the care home, I would assume I could have live virus on my hand to infect grandma - directly or by touching something in her room which she then touches?
> 
> Isn't that why it's HANDS, FACE & SPACE?


That's how I understand it too @Lurcherlad


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> Well they've only been isolated from their loved ones for almost a year so far, so a bit longer won't hurt eh?
> 
> Nice.


Do you think their unvaccinated relatives will be allowed to visit? That's my point, vaccinate the carers and the relatives, who might go around spreading it, not the elderly sat in care homes and not going out.


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> I would assume so.
> 
> If I were vaccinated and out and about touching things and didn't antibac or wash my hands before visiting the care home, I would assume I could have live virus on my hand to infect grandma - directly or by touching something in her room which she then touches?
> 
> Isn't that why it's HANDS, FACE & SPACE?


But isn't that the same as the carers? Vaccinate and wash their hands.


----------



## Siskin

These are from one of my neighbours, he's been sending some really funny memes but these have to be from the top ten.


----------



## willa

Why are nurseries being kept open ?


----------



## Elles

MollySmith said:


> the problem is that people in care homes don't go out. So this means that they are very vulnerable people and sitting targets - I'm sure you've seen the reports - as are those who care for them. My niece who works in a care home, had a mildish dose of Covid earlier this year and is now in hospital again.
> 
> People who may spread it, do have a choice, in the main to stay at home. Of course it's impossible to broadside at demographics but there were five a side football matches going on in a park nearby in a tier 4 area and if folk like that got the vaccine first, there would be huge unrest. It's a two pronged approach I feel, Vaccine _and_ obeying the rules. Not rewarding people for breaking them - you might not have meant that, maybe just those who need to go out and earn.


Yes I meant people who have to go out and about, not football fans. 

I saw no one other than my husband for months for the first lockdowns. Since then I've seen my daughter a couple of times. No one else. I'm not trying to be mean to people in care homes. I'm going to get the vaccine long before my husband does and it will make zero difference, to us or anyone else. I'd rather my daughter got the vaccine and could get married and carry on with her rescue dog work, instead of being locked down again.


----------



## lullabydream

willa said:


> Why are nurseries being kept open ?


Childcare more so than schools. All nurseries off free places for those children who fit the criteria to be educated within them, they do round here. But many also are places of childcare too.


----------



## tabelmabel

My goodness what an episode of 24hrs in police custody that was!! Part 2 tomorrow. There are some very odd people in this world.


----------



## lullabydream

tabelmabel said:


> My goodness what an episode of 24hrs in police custody that was!! Part 2 tomorrow. There are some very odd people in this world.


It must have my neighbour on it.. You described him exactly how everybody else describes him!


----------



## MilleD

Elles said:


> Do you think their unvaccinated relatives will be allowed to visit? That's my point, vaccinate the carers and the relatives, who might go around spreading it, not the elderly sat in care homes and not going out.


They've got to vaccinate the people most vulnerable to getting ill and dying as they still think you can spread it even if you are vaccinated.


----------



## Elles

So basically until the whole country is vaccinated no one will be allowed out.


----------



## SusieRainbow

willa said:


> Why are nurseries being kept open ?


I would think for safeguarding vulnerable children mainly .


----------



## Jaf

Elles said:


> So basically until the whole country is vaccinated no one will be allowed out.


My guess is that once the very vulnerable have been vaccinated, around end of March, then restrictions will be lifted. The thousands of working age people that then catch the virus and die will be written off as an acceptable risk.

I'm not going apart from when necessary until I've had the vaccine, however long it takes.


----------



## mrs phas

Sharing with permission 


Working parents want kids to go back to school because school closures directly impacts them.

Teachers don’t want schools to open because covid spreading round their school directly impacts them.

NHS staff want a full lockdown because sick covid patients directly impacts them.

Business owners want to carry on as normal because lockdown directly impacts them.

People with physical health problems want everyone to stay socially distant because catching covid could kill them.

People with mental health problems want people to spend time with because isolation could kill them.

Some can’t wait for a vaccine because they believe it will bring back some normality.

Some are terrified of a vaccine because they believe it could harm them.

We are all going through this but none of us are going through the same thing. Some face crippling financial challenges, others face heart break. We don’t all have to agree with what is best because what’s best for us won’t be best for everyone. We don’t have to understand what others are going through. But we do need to stick together and keep loving each other no matter our differences. We need to be mindful when some things go the way we want it to, it could be terrible news to another person. We need to be kind.


----------



## rona

Is there anyone else that will not even notice this lockdown to their daily life?

Ours will continue as it did for virtually all of 2020,

However, we will have to avoid ever more people on our walks


----------



## LittleEms

rona said:


> Is there anyone else that will not even notice this lockdown to their daily life?
> 
> Ours will continue as it did for virtually all of 2020,
> 
> However, we will have to avoid ever more people on our walks


I still have to work so it won't make a difference to me. Last lockdown did as I couldn't work during that one. I am sure our quiet little road will turn into a car park again for people coming for walks when they are not supposed to be leaving their area though!


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> They've got to vaccinate the people most vulnerable to getting ill and dying as they still think you can spread it even if you are vaccinated.


The Hungarian Government publish a daily list of all the hospital deaths from Covid-19, 95% of which is people aged 65 years old and older with underlying medical conditions.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> When you arrive in Hungary, if you haven't had the necessary tests, you have to spend 10 days in quarantine. You're given this sticker to put on your front door and the police check every day to make sure you're not breaking your quarantine. There's a heavy fine if you do. Today the new infection rate was about 900 new cases, down from 6000 at the beginning of December. The figure could be low though due to the holiday


 That's really the only way to beat it. It seems that in UK nothing is actually enforced - there's a lot of huffing and puffing, but that's about it; which I imagine is why we are on the third lockdown in less than a year.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> The Hungarian Government publish a daily list of all the hospital deaths from Covid-19, 95% of which is people aged 65 years old and older with underlying medical conditions.


And that's the point isn't it?

Vaccinate the vulnerable, exactly the same way as they do with flu and many of the rest will be ok. Not all though. But this was never about preventing any deaths it's still about the pressure on the NHS. And that's all.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Is there anyone else that will not even notice this lockdown to their daily life?
> 
> Ours will continue as it did for virtually all of 2020,
> 
> However, we will have to avoid ever more people on our walks


Me.

Been shielding in the latest tier 4 as advised anyway. OH has to travel between my house and his as he does drum lessons in the week, but as we are a support bubble, that's within the rules.

I've been to a supermarket a few times when the shielding was lifted, and a hairdressers once since January 2020.

So this lockdown won't change anything.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> That's really the only way to beat it. It seems that in UK nothing is actually enforced - there's a lot of huffing and puffing, but that's about it; which I imagine is why we are on the third lockdown in less than a year.


In fairness, I doubt we have the numbers of police it would take to check every single quarantined person. Imagine the police/hoi poloi ratio is much higher in Hungary than here. It's almost impossible to compare the two countries to be honest, both with people's attitudes and the demograhics.


----------



## StormyThai

rona said:


> Is there anyone else that will not even notice this lockdown to their daily life?
> 
> Ours will continue as it did for virtually all of 2020,
> 
> However, we will have to avoid ever more people on our walks


The main things for me is that I still can't go and visit my dad.
I can't work (not safe to run classes) and I don't qualify for any benefits.
And finally I miss going out and getting fresh veg for my tea...as I only cook for myself most stuff goes off before I get to it when I buy in bulk.

I'm honestly loving how quiet the skys are, I have never slept so well since moving here lol
My OH works the school contracts but I think his kids are still going in so no real change for him as far as I know.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> In fairness, I doubt we have the numbers of police it would take to check every single quarantined person. Imagine the police/hoi poloi ratio is much higher in Hungary than here. It's almost impossible to compare the two countries to be honest, both with people's attitudes and the demograhics.


 True, I think the police have made it obvious they don't have the time for it . . . or the inclination, and people know this, so it's not enforced. And shops can only ''advise'' their staff to wear face coverings apparently. Sort of defeats the object somehow.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


>


That made me smile, there are some clever people around.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> In fairness, I doubt we have the numbers of police it would take to check every single quarantined person. Imagine the police/hoi poloi ratio is much higher in Hungary than here. It's almost impossible to compare the two countries to be honest, both with people's attitudes and the demograhics.


Hungary has the lowest number of police per 100,000 inhabitants than any other country in the EU with only 90 policemen per 100,000 inhabitants.

By contrast England and Wales has 212 policemen and Scotland 322 policemen per 100,000 inhabitants.

A considerable difference 

https://www.statista.com/chart/16515/police-officers-per-100000-inhabitants-in-the-eu/

*The EU's Most Heavily Policed Countries*


----------



## Calvine

Will they prioritise vaccinations for teachers?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well shielding again and I know what it means, they don't need to waste money sending me another letter, they could spend it on more important things.


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> Is there anyone else that will not even notice this lockdown to their daily life?
> 
> Ours will continue as it did for virtually all of 2020,
> 
> However, we will have to avoid ever more people on our walks


Yes and no. I personally am not going to be affected in any devastating way but i am affected to the point of feeling a bit knocked by it.

The first lockdown i very much enjoyed. It was the first time in my adult life that i had really been told not to work and to stay at home. It felt like a weight of responsibility had been lifted right off.

I am self employed and, i dont know why i do it, but i definitely do put a pressure on myself to keep a certain income coming in each month. But my husband works full time, his job is secure and most of our kids are grown and flown so we can manage on just his income.

Anyway, that was all good. I got the self employment grants and they fully replaced my lost income.

Then i started back at work in August (im a childminder) I had lost a lot if work but had 2 children in and that was fine. I wanted to start slowly anyway as i got to grips with all the additional measures.

Just before Christmas, a family that had previously used me got back in touch to start their 2 girls back with me. That would have been a big boost to my income. And another new boy.

So, mentally i had made that shift and thought im on my way, business is back up, wont need any more grants, it's all good. Back in work mode.

Now, prevented from working with any other children than keyworker and vulnerable. So i cant do any work with these particular children and of course their circs might change and they might not ever come into my service now.

So i am affected from that point of view.

My disabled son suffered badly during first lockdown with all his activities stopped. They had got going again and he benefits massively from having a structured routine. Now they have all stopped again.

My 13yr old, is obvs going to be home learning.

My son that came home from uni is still here which isnt ideal as he has no bedroom here and i think he will be home a while yet. And he is eating us out of house and home!

I wont notice lockdown at all as regards not being able to do any leisure activities. As i was only dog walking before.

But yes it will affect our working lives. And mentally for me im in this 'should i just retire' mode.

But i dont think that will be mentally healthy for me. I just feel the drive has been knocked out of me. Usually, im quite a motivated and forward thinking positive person, but im just feeling a bit knocked back right now.

Trivial compared to many situations i know as we arent struggling financially but it is how i feel.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Hungary has the lowest number of police per 100,000 inhabitants than any other country in the EU with only 90 policemen per 100,000 inhabitants.
> 
> By contrast England and Wales has 212 policemen and Scotland 322 policemen per 100,000 inhabitants.
> 
> A considerable difference
> 
> https://www.statista.com/chart/16515/police-officers-per-100000-inhabitants-in-the-eu/
> 
> *The EU's Most Heavily Policed Countries*


I think your numbers might be out of date. According to this, by 2018 Hungary had 403. And I would assume that due to cuts, the numbers were falling in the UK.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> Why are nurseries being kept open ?


I asked my neighbour that: she says they reckon it is easier to ''control'' them at that age (really??), and that at her son's nursery, the children are in little groups of six or seven, according to their age, most of the time. I don't honestly see six toddlers being that easy to control, but apparently that is the reason they were given. It does occur to me that nurseries are businesses (one near me charges £2000+ a month) and presumably some may have to close permanently if they have no income.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well shielding again and I know what it means, they don't need to waste money sending me another letter, they could spend it on more important things.


I haven't had a letter yet. I hope they don't bother too.


----------



## tabelmabel

StormyThai said:


> I'm honestly loving how quiet the skys are, I have never slept so well since moving here lol


Didnt realise you had moved - are you in Cornwall now?!

Wherever you are, it sounds better than where you were before


----------



## tabelmabel

*** when i said before somewhere on this thread that Scottish nurseries are closed, i was thinking school nurseries - nurseries attached to primary schools. They are closed. Private nurseries are open for keyworker and vulnerable only. As are schools ***


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I think your numbers might be out of date. According to this, by 2018 Hungary had 403. And I would assume that due to cuts, the numbers were falling in the UK.
> 
> View attachment 459401


I stand corrected.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I stand corrected.


I think all it goes to show is that it's possible to find a statistic to suit any argument.

I can say with a fair amount of confidence that we don't have enough police to check on all the people that should be self isolating. Whether that is due to police numbers or numbers of cases is fairly moot. We just don't have the capability to do it here.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> Do you think their unvaccinated relatives will be allowed to visit? That's my point, vaccinate the carers and the relatives, who might go around spreading it, not the elderly sat in care homes and not going out.


I would think they are still at high risk of catching it if brought in and it's highly likely they will get very sick (needing NHS resources) or die.

Once vaccinated, they are protected from serious illness and death.



Elles said:


> But isn't that the same as the carers? Vaccinate and wash their hands.


Yes, but I would hope Carers have very strict regimes to follow (and they are essential to their basic survival) - visitors may not be so disciplined.

There are lots of people in care homes on "end of life" care where catching the virus wouldn't really change things for them (they could have the comfort of family with them) but the other residents cannot be exposed to the risk. Not all care home residents are on their last legs.

There is no perfect solution.


----------



## Elles

Calvine said:


> Will they prioritise vaccinations for teachers?


Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> Sharing with permission
> 
> Working parents want kids to go back to school because school closures directly impacts them.
> 
> Teachers don't want schools to open because covid spreading round their school directly impacts them.
> 
> NHS staff want a full lockdown because sick covid patients directly impacts them.
> 
> Business owners want to carry on as normal because lockdown directly impacts them.
> 
> People with physical health problems want everyone to stay socially distant because catching covid could kill them.
> 
> People with mental health problems want people to spend time with because isolation could kill them.
> 
> Some can't wait for a vaccine because they believe it will bring back some normality.
> 
> Some are terrified of a vaccine because they believe it could harm them.
> 
> We are all going through this but none of us are going through the same thing. Some face crippling financial challenges, others face heart break. We don't all have to agree with what is best because what's best for us won't be best for everyone. We don't have to understand what others are going through. But we do need to stick together and keep loving each other no matter our differences. We need to be mindful when some things go the way we want it to, it could be terrible news to another person. We need to be kind.


All of which I try to take into account when the Government make the decisions they do.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well shielding again and I know what it means, they don't need to waste money sending me another letter, they could spend it on more important things.


But some people will have thrown the last one away (the rules are slightly different this time) and then they will complain they are confused and the Government should make them clearer


----------



## Dave S

Well last night I had a call from my cousin.

My aunt who lives in a care home and has Parkinson's had a fall last week, stayed a night in hospital, came out and tested negative and was readmitted on Sunday and tested positive.
Apparently things are not looking good for her.
She is in her eighties, just hope it is a peaceful ending.


----------



## Lurcherlad

We fall between 2 stalls:

Glad of the Lockdown to stop the spread (hopefully) and waiting for OH to get the vaccination as he’s medically vulnerable - so, hopefully protected from serious illness and death. 

I’m 60, so not entirely safe and it will be a while before I get it so the less virus out there (and people spreading it) the better for us.

However, working for a construction company that is hanging on by the skin of it’s teeth (was very successful and cash rich hitherto) it’s highly likely this Lockdown could be the nail in the coffin and it goes under.

So OH (and many others) will be out of a job and being vulnerable, chances of he or I finding something else suitable (and with all the job losses anyway) are slim.

We are extremely fortunate to have paid off the mortgage last year so can’t end up on the street and can access a small pension to manage on until we reach State pension age.

It must be an horrendous worry for so many families who are not so fortunate.


----------



## StormyThai

tabelmabel said:


> Didnt realise you had moved - are you in Cornwall now?!
> 
> Wherever you are, it sounds better than where you were before


Oh I wish...
Alas no, I'm still in this craphole, it's just much easier to sleep now...We are right on the flight path for not just commercial flights but all the domestic and fair weather pilots so the sky ALWAYS had planes in it...all through the night too. Add that to all the factories that we have here and now the 5 (yes 5) construction sites within walking distance (2 within spitting distance), oh and then add all the drunk fools that used the path right under our bedroom window to shout and scream to all their drunk mates I just couldn't sleep through the night.
Since lockdown my sleeping has been much better overnight due...no pissed idiots, skies are much, much quieter and we don't have the 3 local schools worth of foot traffic cutting past our back garden on the school run.

If anything, this has reminded me how I am NOT a townie and should not be living in one :Hilarious

Once all of this is done I WILL be getting myself out of here, preferably back home!


----------



## kimthecat

Dave S said:


> Well last night I had a call from my cousin.
> 
> My aunt who lives in a care home and has Parkinson's had a fall last week, stayed a night in hospital, came out and tested negative and was readmitted on Sunday and tested positive.
> Apparently things are not looking good for her.
> She is in her eighties, just hope it is a peaceful ending.


Im so sorry to hear that.


----------



## JoanneF

Can anyone fathom the reason for the words I have bolded? From the Scottish Government website - amongst the permitted reasons for leaving home is

_local outdoor recreation, sport or exercise, walking, cycling, golf, or running that starts and finishes at the same place (*which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area*) as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households_

Given that last week we were all supposed to be staying within our local authority area, I don't get this. I understand if someone lived on the very edge of a local authority area, and was a member of a golf club five miles into the next local authority but that's a bit specific to make the rule for, and it would have still been far safer to say people should stay within about 5 miles of home, like in the Spring.


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha @JoanneF - i couldnt make head nor tail of that either. But it isnt new. That came out when we went into tier 3 in november or october or whenever it was.

It reads as if you can go right to your boundary edge and then 5 miles into the neighbouring boundary doesnt it?!

Crazy!


----------



## Calvine

Elles said:


> People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work,


And they have the staunch backing of the unions.


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> But i dont think that will be mentally healthy for me. I just feel the drive has been knocked out of me. Usually, im quite a motivated and forward thinking positive person, but im just feeling a bit knocked back right now.


I felt knocked back with the last lockdown, when I couldn't swim. I've come to terms with that now. I'm sort of shut down...............I think many people are just so weary



Dave S said:


> Well last night I had a call from my cousin.
> 
> My aunt who lives in a care home and has Parkinson's had a fall last week, stayed a night in hospital, came out and tested negative and was readmitted on Sunday and tested positive.
> Apparently things are not looking good for her.
> She is in her eighties, just hope it is a peaceful ending.


Sorry to here about your Aunt. Hoping she doesn't suffer, whatever the outcome



Lurcherlad said:


> It must be an horrendous worry for so many families who are not so fortunate.


Particularly for those starting off in family life. t
This must be making a whole generation with no hope of a comfortable future


----------



## SbanR




----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> That came out when we went into tier 3 in november or october or whenever it was.


I hadn't realised that


----------



## daveos

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


You are correct on that I work for Morrisons and think we are the forgotten army of essential workers we can't refuse to work like the teachers have been doing we would be suspended dismissed, And I think we should be inline for vaccination before the teachers as we have never had any time of for lockdown intact we have worked many more hours up to 12 hour shifts it has been exhausting if we were not there the country would starve.


----------



## catz4m8z

Lets hope people stick to lockdown and we get out of this soon.

Im just beyond fed up with things and TBH it really got to me last night and I was on the verge of tears. I dont work on a high dependency/ITU covid ward but all that means is that my covid pts are either not that poorly or (more often then not) just arent going to get that ICU bed or ventilator. People who were leading happy productive lives but because they are a little older or have some underlying health issues they arent going to get the precious few resources we have.
You go into healthcare to help people, fix them, make them feel better and it feels like we are just losing them or watching them develop life changing issues all the time now. They are scared and cant see their families and the staffing is so awful and unsafe you dont have time to reassure them. It just ****ing sucks is all.

ok, rant over. Just needed to get that off my chest!!:Shy:Nurse:Bag


----------



## Dave S

Another scam recently started;

*Fake text re- Covid-19 test
*

_Dear Watch Member,

Today, we have been alerted to a highly believable scam which starts with a text and advises the user that they are eligible to apply for the vaccine and to click on the link in the text message. The user is then led to a webpage, which looks very convincing and asks them to complete some details, in order for them to be able to apply for the vaccine.

_
*The details asked for:*
_
_



*Name*

*Address*

*Date of birth*

*Proof of address*

*Card payment details*

_ 
With the recent approval of multiple vaccines in the UK, these types of scam attempts are likely to continue, as fraudsters continue to take advantage of the rollout to some many people.

Please see our article on our website:

_
_https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/fake-text-identifying-you-eligible-covid-19-vaccine_​


----------



## Jobeth

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


Schools have been open throughout lockdown for the vulnerable and children of key workers. Special schools, PRUs and early year settings are also open. I'm not class based but I am still going in. Out of interest how many jobs involve working with 30 others in one room and no PPE? Young children have no idea how to socially distance.


----------



## tabelmabel

Dave S said:


> Well last night I had a call from my cousin.
> 
> My aunt who lives in a care home and has Parkinson's had a fall last week, stayed a night in hospital, came out and tested negative and was readmitted on Sunday and tested positive.
> Apparently things are not looking good for her.
> She is in her eighties, just hope it is a peaceful ending.


Sorry, i missed this earlier. This is terrible. Very sad


----------



## tabelmabel

JoanneF said:


> I hadn't realised that


I only looked it up as i thought my friend was a bit ott, calling off our walk in fife back at that time - she said we shouldn't be walking out of our local authority area.

So i pulled up this weird rule to show it was ok though we ended up sticking more local in the end


----------



## ForestWomble

The biggest way this impacts me is that I still can't see my parents, so I know I'm lucky in the sense that day-to-day life just carries on fairly normally for me, but last nights news had me in tears.
I understand why this is happening and do agree with it, but now it's winter I'm struggling with the isolation more and just want to be able to see them safely, without having to be scared of covid.


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> Lets hope people stick to lockdown and we get out of this soon.
> 
> Im just beyond fed up with things and TBH it really got to me last night and I was on the verge of tears. I dont work on a high dependency/ITU covid ward but all that means is that my covid pts are either not that poorly or (more often then not) just arent going to get that ICU bed or ventilator. People who were leading happy productive lives but because they are a little older or have some underlying health issues they arent going to get the precious few resources we have.
> You go into healthcare to help people, fix them, make them feel better and it feels like we are just losing them or watching them develop life changing issues all the time now. They are scared and cant see their families and the staffing is so awful and unsafe you dont have time to reassure them. It just ****ing sucks is all.
> 
> ok, rant over. Just needed to get that off my chest!!:Shy:Nurse:Bag


You rant away, better here than to your poor workmates who are probably struggling too,

We need a thread for all you essential workers to let of steam.........our little issues with everyday life must seem rather trifling with what you are facing


----------



## catz4m8z

rona said:


> You rant away, better here than to your poor workmates who are probably struggling too,


thanks! just ignore me....I was just having a moment! LOL:Shy:Hilarious
Usually I moan to my best friend who works with the very serious covid cases 5 days a week and we form our own support system. Kinda backfired last week though as I told her how i found a phone to let a pt talk to his daughter and how happy it made them and she told me how she had spent all day struggling (and failing) to save a pt on my ward....of course we realiesed we were talking about the same person.

But this wont last forever and there is light at the end of tunnel. Then we can all enjoy the non socially distanced activities of our choice!! (as an introvert Im just looking forward to window shopping for books and more exciting dog walks!!)


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


Did all teachers have the choice? My DD has ME and she had to go back to school after summer holidays , her school didnt give their teachers a choice. last term 6 classes were sent home to isolate for two weeks because a child or adult had the Virus or had been in contact with someone who had the virus;

i agree that Store workers and others do a fantastic job. I always make a point of thanking my Asda delivery man. I really appreciate the delivery as Im vulnerable .

@Jobeth
Not easy keeping that many children under control. Also another adult is in the class if any of the children need special help.



ForestWomble said:


> The biggest way this impacts me is that I still can't see my parents, so I know I'm lucky in the sense that day-to-day life just carries on fairly normally for me, but last nights news had me in tears.
> I understand why this is happening and do agree with it, but now it's winter I'm struggling with the isolation more and just want to be able to see them safely, without having to be scared of covid.


 That must be really hard. Its a long time not to see your mum and dad and winter is dreary and depressing.


----------



## lullabydream

ForestWomble said:


> The biggest way this impacts me is that I still can't see my parents, so I know I'm lucky in the sense that day-to-day life just carries on fairly normally for me, but last nights news had me in tears.
> I understand why this is happening and do agree with it, but now it's winter I'm struggling with the isolation more and just want to be able to see them safely, without having to be scared of covid.


Are your parents in a support bubble with someone else? If not I am thinking you could make a support bubble with them


----------



## MissKittyKat

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


I haven't posted on this thread at all but this is rather annoying. There are quite a significant number of teachers who are going into schools everyday working with vulnerable and challenging pupils and it's as if we don't exist!

Our school has been open everyday since March, including last Easter and May Half Term. We also opened again yesterday and welcomed 90% of our children back. Children whose needs are always put first.

One union may have loud voice but how many teachers have actually done what is suggested? Most are at home because they've been told by Government schools can't open and they are working hard!


----------



## mrs phas

The way things are going, there's going to be an awful lot of unemployable youngsters out there 
Even though they have to stay til 18 now, unless employed/college/ apprentice, I can't see many wanting to do remedial classes, just to catch up to 16yr olds


----------



## mrs phas

To be honest, in my opinion, which isn't worth much really 
Until such time as 50%+ of the *WORKING*
population have been given both parts of the vaccine
He should keep people in lockdown 
Otherwise we are going to be in this yo-yoing, tier/lockdown for the rest of this year 
We've already seen the proof, relax lockdown because R rate falls 
The UK public, in their stupidity, think yay-hay! We can do what we want 
R rate rises, so everyone's back in lockdown 
And so on and so forth 
Reminds me a bit of those nodding/drinking birds that people used to have, at least my great aunt did, I thought it was magic!
up, down up again, down again 
Then comes the hokey pokey!


----------



## karenmc

MissKittyKat said:


> I haven't posted on this thread at all but this is rather annoying. There are quite a significant number of teachers who are going into schools everyday working with vulnerable and challenging pupils and it's as if we don't exist!
> 
> Our school has been open everyday since March, including last Easter and May Half Term. We also opened again yesterday and welcomed 90% of our children back. Children whose needs are always put first.
> 
> One union may have loud voice but how many teachers have actually done what is suggested? Most are at home because they've been told by Government schools can't open and they are working hard!


Teachers are working extremely hard under difficult circumstances. We have the backing of our union but they have also been ignored at times in requests they have made for information regarding safety etc. I have the utmost respect for workers in all areas who are helping everyone and have never commented on this. However after an announcement at 8pm teachers have rallied round to arrange remote learning taught by teachers and also planned for teaching children of key workers. We do it because we love our job. We want our children to be in school learning. Teachers are teaching without PPE and until this new lockdown in rooms with 30 children. Some teachers may worry as they have vulnerable people at home or feel vulnerable themselves. None of us has been through this before and rather than being critical of others (when we have not experienced their day to day working life) it would be nice if everyone showed kindness to each other.


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> To be honest, in my opinion, which isn't worth much really
> Until such time as 50%+ of the *WORKING*
> population have been given both parts of the vaccine
> He should keep people in lockdown
> Otherwise we are going to be in this yo-yoing, tier/lockdown for the rest of this year
> We've already seen the proof, relax lockdown because R rate falls
> The UK public, in their stupidity, think yay-hay! We can do what we want
> R rate rises, so everyone's back in lockdown
> And so on and so forth
> Reminds me a bit of those nodding/drinking birds that people used to have, at least my great aunt did, I thought it was magic!
> up, down up again, down again
> Then comes the hokey pokey!


I see your logic but lockdowns are really there to stop hospitals becoming overwhelmed.
With the vulnerable vaccinated hopefully it'll mean fewer hospitals admissions.


----------



## Boxer123

Said it better than me @MissKittyKat and @karenmc.

Schools are currently still open just with reduced numbers. Nearly all of my teaching colleagues are in unless shielding.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


Interestingly in my part of the world we (teachers) desperately want to get back in the classroom. 
We had been in school, full face to face, everyone wearing masks and were doing fine until Thanksgiving and we had a surge right afterwards. (We're not in any type of lockdown, just mask ordinances and things like restaurants operating at half capacity.)
We were all set to go back to school after the winter break and on Saturday evening we found out we have too many people either sick with Covid or quarantining because of close contact to staff the schools so we had to go virtual for 2 weeks. 
We hate it. It's not the same, it's a terrible way to teach. At least this time we were prepared and mostly got our classes prepared to potentially have to go online, but it still sucks. 
So I guess I'm whining about NOT being in school instead of having to go to school. 
I think whining is allowed - for all of us. It's a sucky time all around.


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> That must be really hard. Its a long time not to see your mum and dad and winter is dreary and depressing.


Yeah, I haven't seen them since August I think was the last time, maybe September? properly. I think it's knowing I won't get to see them again until end of February at the earliest, it just hit me, as you say its a long time.
I just keep reminding myself that we are doing this so we will be together once this is over/under control, just carry on as I have been. Winter just makes it harder mentally.



lullabydream said:


> Are your parents in a support bubble with someone else? If not I am thinking you could make a support bubble with them


They are in my support bubble, but we agreed that unless I really need them to come over, we are keeping apart, we aren't a 'quick pop in' distance apart, it's a decent drive to get to me and we feel that it's not worth the risk to any of us. 
If I really need them to they will come over, rules permitting, but as hard as it is to not get to see them, it helps to know we are doing what we can to stay safe.


----------



## lullabydream

ForestWomble said:


> Yeah, I haven't seen them since August I think was the last time, maybe September? properly. I think it's knowing I won't get to see them again until end of February at the earliest, it just hit me, as you say its a long time.
> I just keep reminding myself that we are doing this so we will be together once this is over/under control, just carry on as I have been. Winter just makes it harder mentally.
> 
> They are in my support bubble, but we agreed that unless I really need them to come over, we are keeping apart, we aren't a 'quick pop in' distance apart, it's a decent drive to get to me and we feel that it's not worth the risk to any of us.
> If I really need them to they will come over, rules permitting, but as hard as it is to not get to see them, it helps to know we are doing what we can to stay safe.


A bit pointless in quoting everything you said was just easier.
Glad you are aware of support bubbles and are in one with your parents.

I get where you are coming from keeping you all safe. However, don't forget mental health matters too. So if you are struggling not seeing your parents physically then I would really advise it.


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> Yeah, I haven't seen them since August I think was the last time, maybe September? properly. I think it's knowing I won't get to see them again until end of February at the earliest, it just hit me, as you say its a long time.
> I just keep reminding myself that we are doing this so we will be together once this is over/under control, just carry on as I have been. Winter just makes it harder mentally.
> 
> They are in my support bubble, but we agreed that unless I really need them to come over, we are keeping apart, we aren't a 'quick pop in' distance apart, it's a decent drive to get to me and we feel that it's not worth the risk to any of us.
> If I really need them to they will come over, rules permitting, but as hard as it is to not get to see them, it helps to know we are doing what we can to stay safe.


What you have to keep in mind is 
Youre avoiding seeing them to keep them safe, and, vice versa 
So you will be able to see each other, when we reach the end of this mess 
You're doing a noble thing for them, by keeping yourself and them safe 
This will end, eventually, and you will be able to see each other, hug and smother each other in a year's worth of kisses 
Until then 
Could you do something's to keep your mind busy, to keep your mind from lingering every second, of every minute, of every hour on how much you're missing them 
Jigsaw, diamond paintings, colouring books, download some of those crime solving games, stuff like that 
I know it doesn't solve the pain, but it can mask it, just a little 
If you're really desperate, I'm always on zoom (now)

Keep yourself safe,


----------



## tabelmabel

It will be interesting to see how countries whose healthcare systems can cope (if there are any) will choose to distribute vaccines amongst their populations.

I wonder if they will all start with their elderly - or target the early vaccines at the working age vulnerable.


----------



## lullabydream

tabelmabel said:


> It will be interesting to see how countries whose healthcare systems can cope (if there are any) will choose to distribute vaccines amongst their populations.
> 
> I wonder if they will all start with their elderly - or target the early vaccines at the working age vulnerable.


I don't think we can compare.. I mean I do wonder exactly how the US health care schemes are coping so I would ask @O2.0 as obviously how 'free' and 'available' will a vaccine be?


----------



## karenmc

Boxer123 said:


> Said it better than me @MissKittyKat and @karenmc.
> 
> Schools are currently still open just with reduced numbers. Nearly all of my teaching colleagues are in unless shielding.


Mine too and there are some schools with quite large numbers of Key worker and vulnerable children in. Schools are not just places of education. They are safe places of security and comfort for some children. Teachers and all other people who work in schools do so many other things to take care of children that some people would never know.x


----------



## tabelmabel

lullabydream said:


> I don't think we can compare..


Not compare as such - but just observe how other countries choose to prioritise. Will be interesting.


----------



## tabelmabel

karenmc said:


> Schools are not just places of education.


Oh @karenmc !!!! Dont start this 'discussion' again! Where were you when i went on my education rant! Im not even a teacher, but i didnt half go off on one, on your behalf:Hilarious


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> It will be interesting to see how countries whose healthcare systems can cope (if there are any) will choose to distribute vaccines amongst their populations.
> 
> I wonder if they will all start with their elderly - or target the early vaccines at the working age vulnerable.


You made me interested enough to check out what New Zealand was doing with their vaccine programme. Its pretty much the same as here...only with more maori's!!LOL:Hilarious
I think you will find that every country will vaccinate the vulnerable and their carers first.


----------



## Linda Weasel

I’ve just got a simple view; we need to keep people well and out of hospital, so that those who need treatment, ICU, ventilators and nurses free to deliver all this, will get it.


----------



## willa

My mood has taken a huge nosedive, finding it very hard to cope with awful anxiety and depressive feelings. I need some help to get through through this bumpy period, but too I embarrassed to phone my doctor


----------



## Boxer123

willa said:


> My mood has taken a huge nosedive, finding it very hard to cope with awful anxiety and depressive feelings. I need some help to get through through this bumpy period, but too I embarrassed to phone my doctor


Don't be embarrassed it's what they are there for. I visited mine several times during my divorce last year and was embarrassed but they were a great help. You would go with a broken arm.


----------



## lorilu

Elles said:


> Tesco workers are more important than teachers. People responsible for educating children are too afraid to go to work, unlike people working on the tills at Tesco and health workers of course. Someone brought it up in a live stream on YouTube yesterday. Not sure what I think of it. Last time sending the kids back to school and especially uni students to university, spread the damn thing like wildfire, but teachers do sound a bit whiny when you think of all the people who have no choice about it.


Whenever I go to the grocery store (I try to keep it to once very three weeks) I feel such overwhelming gratitude to all those working there. I make a point, every time, of thanking any employee I happen to cross paths with during my shopping.


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> I don't think we can compare.. I mean I do wonder exactly how the US health care schemes are coping so I would ask @O2.0 as obviously how 'free' and 'available' will a vaccine be?


The vaccine so far is free. Though if you have insurance, insurance pays for it. So I guess no out of pocket is more accurate.

As far as roll out. Ugh. Well, you see, we have this guy who's president and yeah, well he's more interested in conspiracy theories than a vaccine so there's that. He has left it up to states to decide. Which isn't bad, it's just a big confusion. 
In my state, all first line workers are vaccinated first. Healthcare staff. Then vulnerable populations (which is defined by each state), then key workers (teachers, essential workers), then the rest of the population. 
It seems to be a smooth-ish roll-out so far. We just all want it to be faster. Well, those of us not reading and believing conspiracy theories that is...


----------



## Elles

I should have put the first couple of sentences in quotes, I was paraphrasing the person on live stream. Like I said, I don’t know what to think. I don’t think the schools should go back, but it does seem a bit weird that someone on minimum wage, or not much more is an essential worker and has to risk it, but someone responsible for the education of future generations isn’t seen as essential and is threatening to go on strike. Seems so topsy turvy from what we’re usually supposed to think. Not aimed at enthusiastic and frustrated teachers of course. Just the lazy b’s.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Just popping in to update you about my colleague's friend (if you remember my post from NYE)...she is off the ventilator and doing very well. HURRAH!


----------



## MissKittyKat

Elles said:


> I should have put the first couple of sentences in quotes, I was paraphrasing the person on live stream. Like I said, I don't know what to think. I don't think the schools should go back, but it does seem a bit weird that someone on minimum wage, or not much more is an essential worker and has to risk it, but someone responsible for the education of future generations isn't seen as essential and is threatening to go on strike. Seems so topsy turvy from what we're usually supposed to think. Not aimed at enthusiastic and frustrated teachers of course. Just the lazy b's.


Thanks for clarifying.

I'm proud of our school TAs too, who are definitely close it minimum wage x


----------



## Elles

I’m finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I’ve developed skin lesions that the doc I’m seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they’ve not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it’s been abscessing so looks like she’ll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn’t working and there’s no one else, so it’s do horse’s feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I’m feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


----------



## ForestWomble

mrs phas said:


> What you have to keep in mind is
> Youre avoiding seeing them to keep them safe, and, vice versa
> So you will be able to see each other, when we reach the end of this mess
> You're doing a noble thing for them, by keeping yourself and them safe
> This will end, eventually, and you will be able to see each other, hug and smother each other in a year's worth of kisses
> Until then
> Could you do something's to keep your mind busy, to keep your mind from lingering every second, of every minute, of every hour on how much you're missing them
> Jigsaw, diamond paintings, colouring books, download some of those crime solving games, stuff like that
> I know it doesn't solve the pain, but it can mask it, just a little
> If you're really desperate, I'm always on zoom (now)
> 
> Keep yourself safe,


Thank you, I can't express how much what you've said above means to me, it's good to be reminded of these things.

Yes I have things to do to keep my mind busy, just need to get motivated to do them.

Again, thank you, I will keep that in mind.


----------



## mrs phas

Arny said:


> I see your logic but lockdowns are really there to stop hospitals becoming overwhelmed.
> With the vulnerable vaccinated hopefully it'll mean fewer hospitals admissions.


Except the hospitals are only in danger of being overwhelmed when the R rate rises
When lockdown is imposed it falls 
Ergo 
Continuous lockdown means NHS admissions continue to fall, less stress on drs/nurses, more 'normal' clinics can run, and people with heart problems, cancers, needing transplants etc can be saved


----------



## Elles

mrs phas said:


> Except the hospitals are only in danger of being overwhelmed when the R rate rises
> When lockdown is imposed it falls
> Ergo
> Continuous lockdown means NHS admissions continue to fall, less stress on drs/nurses, more 'normal' clinics can run, and people with heart problems, cancers, needing transplants etc can be saved


That's why people were so keen the first time, but unfortunately a few people were missed, the press honed in on them and it's lost a lot of support because of it.


----------



## Siskin

Elles said:


> I'm finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I've developed skin lesions that the doc I'm seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they've not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it's been abscessing so looks like she'll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn't working and there's no one else, so it's do horse's feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


Oh crumbs how frightening for you, this is the last thing you need in the middle of a pandemic. I do hope it's not cancer, but what an awful side effect of covid if it is


----------



## willa

Are Doctors open over this lockdown ?


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Except the hospitals are only in danger of being overwhelmed when the R rate rises
> When lockdown is imposed it falls
> Ergo
> Continuous lockdown means NHS admissions continue to fall, less stress on drs/nurses, more 'normal' clinics can run, and people with heart problems, cancers, needing transplants etc can be saved


I can completely see both sides.
There must be a reason to do it like this, similarly to who gets offered the flu vaccine.
Perhaps it's easier in the short term to do it this way round as the vulnerable and health sector workers make up much less of the population.


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> Are Doctors open over this lockdown ?


They've always been.
For certain things they may wish to do phone/video consultations instead of face to face.
Don't feel you're wasting their time or anything, they'll be happy to help.


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Yeah, I haven't seen them since August I think was the last time, maybe September? properly. I think it's knowing I won't get to see them again until end of February at the earliest, it just hit me, as you say its a long time.
> I just keep reminding myself that we are doing this so we will be together once this is over/under control, just carry on as I have been. Winter just makes it harder mentally.
> They are in my support bubble, but we agreed that unless I really need them to come over, we are keeping apart, we aren't a 'quick pop in' distance apart, it's a decent drive to get to me and we feel that it's not worth the risk to any of us.
> If I really need them to they will come over, rules permitting, but as hard as it is to not get to see them, it helps to know we are doing what we can to stay safe.


 Do you do FaceTime or equivalent with them? Its not the same as meeting in real life but can help if you feel low.


----------



## karenmc

tabelmabel said:


> Oh @karenmc !!!! Dont start this 'discussion' again! Where were you when i went on my education rant! Im not even a teacher, but i didnt half go off on one, on your behalf:Hilarious


Lol! Sorry @tabelmabel not wanting to start a rant. After a very long day, just felt the need to support my colleagues in these difficult times. I know you are always very supportive. As I said I have the utmost respect for everyone and hope we can all support and show kindness to each other.x


----------



## tabelmabel

It's ok @karenmc - i was only joking It was funny though, as i was just skimming quickly down the page of posts, not really reading many right through and then i saw yours. And i think i still have another 10 page rant in me about the importance of education but my head is saying "dont go there. Do NOT go there!!"

So, fortunately for everyone, i didn't


----------



## Jesthar

I've seen this on FB a few times, sums up how I feel pretty well


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> My mood has taken a huge nosedive, finding it very hard to cope with awful anxiety and depressive feelings. I need some help to get through through this bumpy period, but too I embarrassed to phone my doctor


Please phone your Doctor , They really dont mind and its nothing to be embarrassed about. I expect they would do a phone consultation.



Elles said:


> I'm finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I've developed skin lesions that the doc I'm seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they've not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it's been abscessing so looks like she'll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn't working and there's no one else, so it's do horse's feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


 What a nightmare. I hope the doctor says its not cancer .


----------



## kittih

Elles said:


> I'm finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I've developed skin lesions that the doc I'm seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they've not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it's been abscessing so looks like she'll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn't working and there's no one else, so it's do horse's feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


Sorry to hear you are struggling. It may or may not be relevant regarding the skin lesions but one symptom of covid relates to skin lesions and rashes. Maybe worth a discussion with the doctor perhaps... https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/skin-rash-covid


----------



## rona

Elles said:


> I'm finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I've developed skin lesions that the doc I'm seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they've not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it's been abscessing so looks like she'll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn't working and there's no one else, so it's do horse's feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


Sending you all good wishes today. I so hope your worries are groundless


----------



## Happy Paws2

Thinking of you today and hope your fears are groundless X


----------



## Magyarmum

tabelmabel said:


> It will be interesting to see how countries whose healthcare systems can cope (if there are any) will choose to distribute vaccines amongst their populations.
> 
> I wonder if they will all start with their elderly - or target the early vaccines at the working age vulnerable.


I can tell you exactly what will happen in Hungary. (Our healthcare system is free and works like the NHS)

This is the official priority list for vaccinations that was released a few days ago.

https://www.nnk.gov.hu/index.php/ko...gyi-es-egeszsegugyben-dolgozok-szamara?fbclid

*Public information based on the vaccination plan (extract)*


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm starting to get worried I'm in the shielding bracket and we are having a new gas cooker next Monday so a gas man and delivery people will be coming into our home, do you think it's safe or should we cancel. Noting we have paid already


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> I've seen this on FB a few times, sums up how I feel pretty well


Exactly how I feel. I've come this far and I'll see it through until the end by just continuing to do what I have been doing and not relaxing being vigilant.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm starting to get worried I'm in the shielding bracket and we are having a new gas cooker next Monday so a gas man and delivery people will be coming into our home, do you think it's safe or should we cancel. Noting we have paid already


How important is a new cooker. 
If it were me I'd not be near anyone at the moment


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> How important is a new cooker.
> If it were me I'd not be near anyone at the moment


Really need a new one the old one has trouble lighting and keeps going out. Just worried.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Really need a new one the old one has trouble lighting and keeps going out. Just worried.


If you shut them in the Kitchen, make sure they wear masks and clean everything when they go. I think they'll be minimal risk


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> If you shut them in the Kitchen, make sure they wear masks and clean everything when they go. I think they'll be minimal risk


I was thinking that and have the windows open.


----------



## tabelmabel

Interesting, @Magyarmum thank you.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> I was thinking that and have the windows open.


Ventilation does seem to be more and more important. Perhaps ask them how long they will be inside (viral load needs time).

Leave the room empty for a while after they leave, with the oven extractor on.

Wipe everything down with soap or antibac afterwards.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> Ventilation does seem to be more and more important. Perhaps ask them how long they will be inside (viral load needs time).
> 
> Leave the room empty for a while after they leave, with the oven extractor on.
> 
> Wipe everything down with soap or antibac afterwards.


I was also thinking when they have gone to open the back and front doors so there is air going straight though the house for 15 mins if it's not to cold.


----------



## tabelmabel

I think you will be ok @Happy Paws2 if you stay upstairs or in a different room with the doors shut.

We had to have a new fridge delivered in the summer. Not ideal but our fridge had totally stopped working. We stayed closed into our livingroom and spoke through an open window. We had them bring it up the side of the house and direct through the back door into our kitchen. They did need to bring it into the kitchen as our kitchen has a steep step and we would have struggled to get it up the step. They just left it in the middle of the kitchen floor with the paperwork on top and left.

It was boxed so i was able to get the box off wearing gloves and it was a new product inside.

Obvs with gas, they will be in touch pipes and things in your kitchen. I buy a spray said to be effective against corona from aldi.

I would spray that all over your kitchen once they leave, leave it to settle and then wipe over with anti bac surface wipes.

If you take the other precautions too like leaving windows open and make sure they wear masks, i think you will be fine.


----------



## tabelmabel

Just heard on the radio that Indonesia is prioritising working aged people over the elderly for covid vaccines.


----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> Just heard on the radio that Indonesia is prioritising working aged people over the elderly for covid vaccines.


That doesn't really surprise me, I did some research on their adult education strategy for the tiger economy when I was studying, and their emphasis on profit and productivity is very strong.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> My mood has taken a huge nosedive, finding it very hard to cope with awful anxiety and depressive feelings. I need some help to get through through this bumpy period, but too I embarrassed to phone my doctor


You should phone. I remember in the first lockdown our surgery sent out texts with details of whom to contact in case you were suffering from stress/depression as a result of the current situation. Saying that, my GP's surgery is currently closed as there has been a case of covid (presumably amongst the staff). Don't feel embarrassed; that is what they are there for, and you can bet they are getting many calls right now. You may have to wait for them to answer (as in ''you are number 3487 in the queue''). Maybe even take a look at their website; it may be quicker and there may well be useful advice there!


----------



## mrs phas




----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> A bit pointless in quoting everything you said was just easier.
> Glad you are aware of support bubbles and are in one with your parents.
> 
> I get where you are coming from keeping you all safe. However, don't forget mental health matters too. So if you are struggling not seeing your parents physically then I would really advise it.


Agree.

@ForestWomble
Is it possible to meet up outside somewhere near where you live, like a park, for a short visit if you wrap up well and take a flask of hot coffee as they are in your bubble? Even once a week will raise your spirits.

I've been doing this 1 to 1 with friends (thankfully still allowed)... rushes off to double check the rules! ). We meet for a walk (avoiding everyone else) and we take our own flasks so we can sit a while chatting with our coffee - whilst social distancing - and it's a great help.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I always get confused when the rules for lockdown state you can go for a walk but in your local area. If they mean from your doorstep its not a very nice walk here. Its built up where I am at the moment and I hate it, and means you walk along narrow paths close to peoples front doors. If they mean you can drive to it is it a 5 min drive or 15 min drive?

We have to go to the post office often and the one we use is 10 min away, with a nice walk we go on, near to it. Is that still acceptable?


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> I always get confused when the rules for lockdown state you can go for a walk but in your local area. If they mean from your doorstep its not a very nice walk here. Its built up where I am at the moment and I hate it, and means you walk along narrow paths close to peoples front doors. If they mean you can drive to it is it a 5 min drive or 15 min drive?
> 
> We have to go to the post office often and the one we use is 10 min away, with a nice walk we go on, near to it. Is that still acceptable?


I'd say yes. The guidance says to stay within your local area, I'd guess 15 mins is within your local area.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> Agree.
> 
> @ForestWomble
> Is it possible to meet up outside somewhere near where you live, like a park, for a short visit if you wrap up well and take a flask of hot coffee as they are in your bubble? Even once a week will raise your spirits.
> 
> I've been doing this 1 to 1 with friends (thankfully still allowed)... rushes off to double check the rules! ). We meet for a walk (avoiding everyone else) and we take our own flasks so we can sit a while chatting with our coffee - whilst social distancing - and it's a great help.


Thats a good idea, you can take bungo for a walk and meet them outside somewhere. If you keep the distance there won't be a risk to any of you and you get to see them. If you worry bungo might get a little too excited and start pulling to get to them you could leave him at home


----------



## kimthecat

HarlequinCat said:


> I always get confused when the rules for lockdown state you can go for a walk but in your local area. If they mean from your doorstep its not a very nice walk here. Its built up where I am at the moment and I hate it, and means you walk along narrow paths close to peoples front doors. If they mean you can drive to it is it a 5 min drive or 15 min drive?
> 
> We have to go to the post office often and the one we use is 10 min away, with a nice walk we go on, near to it. Is that still acceptable?


I think it would be acceptable to drive to your park in these circumstances. last lockdown l asked my local London council if the car parks were open and was it ok to drive to the parks and they said Yes it was ok.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I'd say yes. The guidance says to stay within your local area, I'd guess 15 mins is within your local area.
> 
> View attachment 459471


Yup, thank you. When they say local area you wonder what constitutes as local to these people who make the rules, and if its different to what police considers as local


----------



## kittih

HarlequinCat said:


> I always get confused when the rules for lockdown state you can go for a walk but in your local area. If they mean from your doorstep its not a very nice walk here. Its built up where I am at the moment and I hate it, and means you walk along narrow paths close to peoples front doors. If they mean you can drive to it is it a 5 min drive or 15 min drive?
> 
> We have to go to the post office often and the one we use is 10 min away, with a nice walk we go on, near to it. Is that still acceptable?


This is what our district council says...


----------



## mrs phas

tabelmabel said:


> Just heard on the radio that Indonesia is prioritising working aged people over the elderly for covid vaccines.


Totally agree with this,
I am of the belief that they're starting with elderly and care home residents only because theyre frightened, of the public reaction, if they didn't
All care staff should be inoculated first, if they are safe from the virus, then they won't be taking it into hospitals, care homes, people's homes etc and a possible source of infection nullified, I include paramedics and first aiders in this
Then
police, firemen, forces, and any other workers who have been unable to work from home, but come into daily contact with other human beings, so vets, shop workers, (where not furloughed or working from home) hostel workers, outreach workers, social workers etc
Then
21-69, those who are working age, in work, getting the economy back and working is paramount to digging the country out of a very real looming recession, which will affect the country as a whole
Then
21-69 vunerable
Then
5-20yr olds, our up and coming workforce
Then
69 and over who are vunerable
Then and only then,
all over 69 year olds

Sorry, but inoculation of 80+yr olds first makes no sense in my mind and never has
I know it's a very contentious thing to say, but, we need the young, trained, get up and goers, in all forms of work and abilities, fit and healthy first and foremost.

With most care homes closed to visitors, it is the care staff who are bringing the danger, the same with hospitals and those who've caught it whilst shielding, but having home care,
The unprotected can be equally protected by inoculating their carers of all kinds, and, avoiding transmission,
leaving more vaccine available for those younger age groups to access faster and get the country back to work


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> I'm finding it a bit hard atm. My breathing has deteriorated since having covid and I've developed skin lesions that the doc I'm seeing tomorrow says could be cancer as they've not responded to treatment. Elles has managed to injure her dew claw and it's been abscessing so looks like she'll be in next to have it taken off. My farrier isn't working and there's no one else, so it's do horse's feet myself, which is a bit of a struggle, especially with it so cold. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself too.


Sorry to hear you're having a difficult time.

Hopefully, you'll start to see an improvement in your breathing soon.

My husband suffered a blood clot on his lung during chemo which affected his lung function quite badly, but that has improved considerably over the last few months.

Everything crossed that your skin lesions turn out to be something less scary than cancer and that can be sorted.

Worrying about animals on top of everything else is the cherry on the cake!


----------



## kittih

HarlequinCat said:


> Yup, thank you. When they say local area you wonder what constitutes as local to these people who make the rules, and if its different to what police considers as local


Our district council is defining this as your village, town or district in a city. As I live in a very rural area village would be extremely local and most people would need to drive more than 5 miles to access essential shops for more than just emergency basics. As far as I can see it's not legally specified so I guess would be what would be considered reasonable for the area in which you live.


----------



## Lurcherlad

@willa

Don't forget there are other MH services online who will be happy to help, I'm sure.

Mind, etc.


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> Yup, thank you. When they say local area you wonder what constitutes as local to these people who make the rules, and if its different to what police considers as local


As it's guidance I guess it's fairly subjective.

If you live in Surrey, I wouldn't pop to Scotland for a jog though


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> Agree.
> 
> @ForestWomble
> Is it possible to meet up outside somewhere near where you live, like a park, for a short visit if you wrap up well and take a flask of hot coffee as they are in your bubble? Even once a week will raise your spirits.
> 
> I've been doing this 1 to 1 with friends (thankfully still allowed)... rushes off to double check the rules! ). We meet for a walk (avoiding everyone else) and we take our own flasks so we can sit a while chatting with our coffee - whilst social distancing - and it's a great help.





MilleD said:


> I'd say yes. The guidance says to stay within your local area, I'd guess 15 mins is within your local area.
> 
> View attachment 459471





HarlequinCat said:


> Thats a good idea, you can take bungo for a walk and meet them outside somewhere. If you keep the distance there won't be a risk to any of you and you get to see them. If you worry bungo might get a little too excited and start pulling to get to them you could leave him at home


I'm not sure, in winter or/and wet weather I am restricted to 'pavement plodding', as the nearest green area to me is impossible for me to get to or on to (steep slope to get to it, turns to mud) and it is just a patch of grass, no path, which my wheels sink into. 
I guess we could just take Bungo for a walk, but I'll admit I'm avoiding taking B. out during the day as I can't just step off a pavement so have to rely on the other person/people doing the right thing, I just get so anxious, it wasn't worth it, so just go out early or late.

Also, the guidance to stay within your local area, does that include support bubbles? As my parents are way more than 15 minute car drive away?


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> I'm not sure, in winter or/and wet weather I am restricted to 'pavement plodding', as the nearest green area to me is impossible for me to get to or on to (steep slope to get to it, turns to mud) and it is just a patch of grass, no path, which my wheels sink into.
> I guess we could just take Bungo for a walk, but I'll admit I'm avoiding taking B. out during the day as I can't just step off a pavement so have to rely on the other person/people doing the right thing, I just get so anxious, it wasn't worth it, so just go out early or late.
> 
> Also, the guidance to stay within your local area, does that include support bubbles? As my parents are way more than 15 minute car drive away?


I think support bubbles can travel further to get together - they're not all going to be close by.

I understand what you mean about avoiding people on pavements as they are narrow.

I would suggest wearing your mask as extra protection/security and maybe look for the most suitable route you could take?

Will Bungo sit between your legs on the buggy so he's out of the way on the journey?


----------



## margy

mrs phas said:


> Totally agree with this,
> I am of the belief that they're starting with elderly and care home residents oh because theyre frightened, of the public reaction, if they didn't
> All care staff should be inoculated first, if they are safe from the virus, then they won't be taking it into hospitals, care homes, people's homes etc and a possible source of infection nullified, I include paramedics and first aiders in this
> Then
> police, firemen, forces, and any other workers who have been unable to work from home, but come into daily contact with other human beings, so vets, shop workers, (where not furloughed or working from home) hostel workers, outreach workers, social workers etc
> Then
> 21-69, those who are working age, in work, getting the economy back and working is paramount to digging the country out of a very real looming recession, which will affect the country as a whole
> Then
> 21-69 vunerable
> Then
> 5-20yr olds, our up and coming workforce
> Then
> 69 and over who are vunerable
> Then and only then,
> all over 69 year olds
> 
> Sorry, but inoculation of 80+yr olds first makes no sense in my mind and never has
> I know it's a very contentious thing to say, but, we need the young, trained, get up and goers, in all forms of work and abilities, fit and healthy first and foremost.
> 
> With most care homes closed to visitors, it is the care staff who are bringing the danger, the same with hospitals and those who've caught it whilst shielding, but having home care,
> The unprotected can be equally protected by inoculating their carers of all kinds, and, avoiding transmission,
> leaving more vaccine available for those younger age groups to access faster and get the country back to work


That makes much more sense. The elderly people I visit don't go out anywhere so unlikely to be infected in the community. Last week I stayed in a ladies kitchen at the lunch call and left as soon as it was ready because her daughter, husband and grandchild arrived. I told them I didn't feel safe and left.


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> I'm not sure, in winter or/and wet weather I am restricted to 'pavement plodding', as the nearest green area to me is impossible for me to get to or on to (steep slope to get to it, turns to mud) and it is just a patch of grass, no path, which my wheels sink into.
> I guess we could just take Bungo for a walk, but I'll admit I'm avoiding taking B. out during the day as I can't just step off a pavement so have to rely on the other person/people doing the right thing, I just get so anxious, it wasn't worth it, so just go out early or late.
> 
> Also, the guidance to stay within your local area, does that include support bubbles? As my parents are way more than 15 minute car drive away?


I now have, in my very warped mind, a vision of you on your 'chariot' with boudica type spikes attaced to the wheels
And
The proverbial 10ft barge pole attached to the steering column


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Will Bungo sit between your legs on the buggy so he's out of the way on the journey?


I used to get Chelsea (rip) to sit on the running board of my scooter and she was as good as gold. Only problem was remembering to not go round corners too fast as she would slide off.


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> I think support bubbles can travel further to get together - they're not all going to be close by.
> 
> I understand what you mean about avoiding people on pavements as they are narrow.
> 
> I would suggest wearing your mask as extra protection/security and maybe look for the most suitable route you could take?
> 
> Will Bungo sit between your legs on the buggy so he's out of the way on the journey?


Thank you.

I'll talk to my parents and see if we can come up with something.

He will sit on my lap if I am being pushed, I haven't tried him with the tri-ride yet, he didn't like sitting on the footplate of the scooter, but maybe as he'll be on my lap, he might be happier with my using the tri-ride.


----------



## HarlequinCat

kittih said:


> Our district council is defining this as your village, town or district in a city. As I live in a very rural area village would be extremely local and most people would need to drive more than 5 miles to access essential shops for more than just emergency basics. As far as I can see it's not legally specified so I guess would be what would be considered reasonable for the area in which you live.


Thank you kittih, I havent looked at our local council one, just the national one and it was very vague! Your council one though sounds like good advice though



MilleD said:


> As it's guidance I guess it's fairly subjective.
> 
> If you live in Surrey, I wouldn't pop to Scotland for a jog though


I wouldnt put it past some people to try that. "Ooo I'm just off to my local ski slope.."


----------



## ForestWomble

mrs phas said:


> I now have, in my very warped mind, a vision of you on your 'chariot' with boudica type spikes attaced to the wheels
> And
> The proverbial 10ft barge pole attached to the steering column


 I like that idea!



Cully said:


> I used to get Chelsea (rip) to sit on the running board of my scooter and she was as good as gold. Only problem was remembering to not go round corners too fast as she would slide off.


:Hilarious


----------



## catz4m8z

tabelmabel said:


> Just heard on the radio that Indonesia is prioritising working aged people over the elderly for covid vaccines.


China is doing the working population first too. I can see that TBH... they place great emphasis on working life there and the elderly are probably happy to let the younger people get back to work. I dont think that we have the same relationship towards work as they do though!!



kimthecat said:


> I think it would be acceptable to drive to your park in these circumstances. last lockdown l asked my local London council if the car parks were open and was it ok to drive to the parks and they said Yes it was ok.


Personally I would say that if you have to drive then it isnt local. Maybe thats because I have never driven though so my perspective of what is local has always been whatever is within walking distance!



mrs phas said:


> Totally agree with this,
> I am of the belief that they're starting with elderly and care home residents only because theyre frightened, of the public reaction, if they didn't
> 
> Sorry, but inoculation of 80+yr olds first makes no sense in my mind and never has
> I know it's a very contentious thing to say, but, we need the young, trained, get up and goers, in all forms of work and abilities, fit and healthy first and foremost.


Maybe if we had done a better job of protecting the NHS before things got this bad it would of made sense to do it this way. At this stage though we dont have much of a choice but to try and remove as much of the pressure as possible by vaccinating the people most likely to use healthcare resources....and that is the elderly and vulnerable.
Its not so much about protecting the elderly or even our economy. its still about propping up our healthcare service.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I shan’t be holding China (or it’s work ethic) up as a shining light tbh


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> Also, the guidance to stay within your local area, does that include support bubbles? As my parents are way more than 15 minute car drive away?


Yep, my 'support bubble' is in Cheshire and I'm in Staffordshire, we've been ok to move between the two since they got the rules sorted.


----------



## MilleD

I've just been for a walk. Brrr, it's chilly. I didn't account for there being patches of what can only be described as glass on the ground, but it was good apart from the nearly crippling oneself moments.

I walk on a trail which goes past a nature reserve that is near me, it's normally rammed as it links one side of town with the other, but today it was blissfully quiet. Seems there's a lot to be said for lockdown and the cold (probably more the cold tbh...)


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I shan't be holding China (or it's work ethic) up as a shining light tbh


No definitely not. Wonder if the investigation as to where all this crap started will get anywhere.


----------



## ForestWomble

MilleD said:


> Yep, my 'support bubble' is in Cheshire and I'm in Staffordshire, we've been ok to move between the two since they got the rules sorted.


Thank you


----------



## Siskin

Over one thousand deaths today, and over 62000 new cases


----------



## tabelmabel

Well i hope wherever you are, people are locking down better than they are by me. This is nothing like the compliance levels in march. I walked down to the golf course with the dogs this morning and was shocked at the amount of traffic on the roads. Mostly cars, not commercial vehicles.

Maybe they were all going to do some "essential shopping" i cant think where else you could be going during a lockdown. I had to wait a good couple of mins to cross the road. I live in in small rural market town. A large village really.

In march, april, there wasnt a car on the road.

Motorway looked very busy too.


----------



## tabelmabel

mrs phas said:


> Sorry, but inoculation of 80+yr olds first makes no sense in my mind and never has


Agree with you here @mrs phas - and i should think a few folk in that older age group would sooner see their 'children' and grandchildren vaccinated before them. It has to be done though to protect the nhs.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> Well i hope wherever you are, people are locking down better than they are by me. This is nothing like the compliance levels in march. I walked down to the golf course with the dogs this morning and was shocked at the amount of traffic on the roads. Mostly cars, not commercial vehicles.
> 
> Maybe they were all going to do some "essential shopping" i cant think where else you could be going during a lockdown. I had to wait a good couple of mins to cross the road. I live in in small rural market town. A large village really.
> 
> In march, april, there wasnt a car on the road.
> 
> Motorway looked very busy too.


I walked into my nearest High Street and was pleasantly surprised by the number of empty parking spaces along it - usually none and in high demand.

There were far less people around too and I was the only person in the greengrocers 

Far less people to dodge on the walk too.


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> Far less people to dodge on the walk too.


To be fair, there weren't many walkers. Our whole town looks like it's been cursed by the Snow Queen. It is SO slippery, it is very hard to go out at all. I certainly wouldnt be taking a car out on it.


----------



## LittleEms

tabelmabel said:


> Well i hope wherever you are, people are locking down better than they are by me. This is nothing like the compliance levels in march. I walked down to the golf course with the dogs this morning and was shocked at the amount of traffic on the roads. Mostly cars, not commercial vehicles.
> 
> Maybe they were all going to do some "essential shopping" i cant think where else you could be going during a lockdown. I had to wait a good couple of mins to cross the road. I live in in small rural market town. A large village really.
> 
> In march, april, there wasnt a car on the road.
> 
> Motorway looked very busy too.


Sounds like where I live! I still have to work, and I'm stunned at the amount of traffic and people wandering about. I drive through a small town every day to work and there's practically crowds of people wandering up and down the high street! As if still working during the lockdown wasn't fueling my anxiety enough, they certainly add to it!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

tabelmabel said:


> Well i hope wherever you are, people are locking down better than they are by me. This is nothing like the compliance levels in march. I walked down to the golf course with the dogs this morning and was shocked at the amount of traffic on the roads. Mostly cars, not commercial vehicles.
> 
> Maybe they were all going to do some "essential shopping" i cant think where else you could be going during a lockdown. I had to wait a good couple of mins to cross the road. I live in in small rural market town. A large village really.
> 
> In march, april, there wasnt a car on the road.
> 
> Motorway looked very busy too.


 A lot of businesses that were not ordered to close back in March did so anyway because they were not Covid secure. As we have all come to realise this bloody virus isnt going anywhere, many of those businesses have made adjustment to their working practise so they could reopen and of course will wish to remain open. Back in first lockdown hardly any of the children that could have attended my local school did so, I heard at one point there was only 4 pupils attending, which in a school that has nearly two classes per year group and many parents that are key workers that is a very low figure. I think this time around the parents are more relaxed about sending them as the school have already got to grips with bubbles etc. Also more businesses are allowed to stay open this lockdown, the recyling centre is open, that was closed last time, although I dont know if that was by the government or it just chose to but either way its remained open this time. Non essential shops are allowed to offer click and collect too so I guess it all adds up to more traffic on the roads than back in March when no one was ready for it.


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> The unprotected can be equally protected by inoculating their carers of all kinds, and, avoiding transmission,


The problem here is, they may still be able to pass it on after vaccination, meaning the elderly are still at risk and the NHS still under pressure

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ovid-19-to-anyone-if-you-have-had-the-vaccine

*Can you give COVID-19 to anyone if you have had the vaccine?*
The vaccine cannot give you COVID-19 infection, and a full course will reduce your chance of becoming seriously ill. We do not yet know whether it will stop you from catching and passing on the virus, but we do expect it to reduce this risk. So, it is still important to follow the guidance in your local area to protect those around you.

To protect yourself and your family, friends and colleagues you still need to:


practice social distancing
wear a face mask
wash your hands carefully and frequently


----------



## daveos

3dogs2cats said:


> A lot of businesses that were not ordered to close back in March did so anyway because they were not Covid secure. As we have all come to realise this bloody virus isnt going anywhere, many of those businesses have made adjustment to their working practise so they could reopen and of course will wish to remain open. Back in first lockdown hardly any of the children that could have attended my local school did so, I heard at one point there was only 4 pupils attending, which in a school that has nearly two classes per year group and many parents that are key workers that is a very low figure. I think this time around the parents are more relaxed about sending them as the school have already got to grips with bubbles etc. Also more businesses are allowed to stay open this lockdown, the recyling centre is open, that was closed last time, although I dont know if that was by the government or it just chose to but either way its remained open this time. Non essential shops are allowed to offer click and collect too so I guess it all adds up to more traffic on the roads than back in March when no one was ready for it.


I think you are right on this many people I know who work in factories and building sites are this time still working last time they were all furloughed this time they are prepared have measures put in place.
At my workplace today (a supermarket) it was very quite not many people at all but those that came in wore masks and were behaving well observing distance defiantly no signs of panic buying like the media are reporting about at times we must of had more staff than customers although online delivery is very busy.


----------



## tabelmabel

Schools definitely arent part of it yet as our schools arent open to anybody at all until 11th jan. But your other points could explain it @3dogs2cats

I think in march it was just more of a contrast from full activity to shut down and people were more fearful back then.

Scotland has largely kept up with restrictions right through; we never eased up like england did.

We were slower to lift lockdown. When it lifted, we had stricter measures on numbers allowed to meet. Household mixing was only allowed in july and august i think. And september maybe. From october, there was a total ban on hh mixing.

Nothing ever opened up again - like dog training, all that never got going again here. Horse riding where my daughter goes was private lesson only. Group lessons for 11s and under.

And hospitality closed at 6pm in my area from early november.

The only change out of this is that guidance has become law. But there is no law enforcement.

I think people have had enough now. We havent got the high numbers you have in england so it's not coming close enough to home to shock us back indoors.

It's been a gradual drift into this lockdown for us. The shops and hairdressers and cafes will have closed. Its not like the sudden change in march.

It is still a mystery where all these folks are going though. We are a very small town. A small sainsbury's. There is fuel and services at the motorway junction. There is click and collect at m&s there and at sains.

We have a good butcher which will be open. Apart from him though, our high st is charity shops, bakers (they might be open) hairdressers (shut) and cafes (shut)

If they are staying in our little town, that is. They might well be onto the motorway and in search of better things!


----------



## tabelmabel

daveos said:


> were behaving well observing distance defiantly no signs of panic buying like the media are reporting about at times we must of had more staff than customers although online delivery is very busy.


Good to know


----------



## kimthecat

A year after the outbreak in Wuhan it appears that China are still blocking Who members investigating the out break of Covid19 .

https://au.news.yahoo.com/very-disa...ry-for-who-covid-investigators-210837887.html

One year on from the emergence of coronavirus in Wuhan, a reluctant China remains hypersensitive to investigations into Covid-19's original source.

Prolonged negotiations for an investigation into the beginnings of a pandemic that has so far claimed 1.87 million lives have progressed at a snail's pace as head of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Xi Jinping seeks to protect the damaged reputation of his nation.

On Tuesday (local time), the head of the World Health Organisation, Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said he was "very disappointed" China had still not authorised the entry of a team of international experts to examine the origins of the coronavirus.

"Today, we learned that Chinese officials have not yet finalised the necessary permissions for the team's arrival in China," Dr Tedros told an online news conference in Geneva.


----------



## Lurcherlad

What a surprise


----------



## Siskin

Probably trying to get rid of any incriminating evidence at the Wuhan lab


----------



## kimthecat

I wonder how well China will come out of this . Im not a conspiracy theorist but ......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55454146

*China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.*

The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I've just been for a walk. Brrr, it's chilly. I didn't account for there being patches of what can only be described as glass on the ground, but it was good apart from the nearly crippling oneself moments.
> 
> I walk on a trail which goes past a nature reserve that is near me, it's normally rammed as it links one side of town with the other, but today it was blissfully quiet. Seems there's a lot to be said for lockdown and the cold (probably more the cold tbh...)
> 
> View attachment 459486


That looks so inviting. It would be lovely in summer I expect, if it were just as empty.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> *China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.*


TBF though the US handling of the pandemic has been as much of a s***show as the UK. China is just quick to take advantage.


----------



## kimthecat

catz4m8z said:


> TBF though the US handling of the pandemic has been as much of a s***show as the UK. China is just quick to take advantage.


True!


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.


There's something to be said for constant surveillance, you've got a great track and trace system already in place.


----------



## kimthecat

Arny said:


> There's something to be said for constant surveillance, you've got a great track and trace system already in place.


Yes indeed but Im not convinced that they told the truth about how many case and deaths there were.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Yes indeed but Im not convinced that they told the truth about how many case and deaths there were.


Absolutely we weren't. The Chinese government would never release anything to the world that would make them look weak.

Makes my blood boil when they talk about how "well" China will come out of this when they passed the crap to the rest of the world.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> Yes indeed but Im not convinced that they told the truth about how many case and deaths there were.


Absolutely, although my brother lives there and knows no one who has had it (apart from a family member here).
I can't say the same.


----------



## MollySmith

So sadly heard a close friend and former colleague is in hospital on oxygen with Covid. I’ve spent the day on and off in tears, he’s got four lovely kids and he’s been so worried about them at school and has only just himself back on his feet after a lot of mental health problems. They’ve been through so much.


----------



## kimthecat

@MollySmith I'm sorry to hear that.


----------



## ebonycat

MollySmith said:


> So sadly heard a close friend and former colleague is in hospital on oxygen with Covid. I've spent the day on and off in tears, he's got four lovely kids and he's been so worried about them at school and has only just himself back on his feet after a lot of mental health problems. They've been through so much.


So sorry to hear about your friend.
I truly hope he can pull through, his poor family


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MollySmith said:


> So sadly heard a close friend and former colleague is in hospital on oxygen with Covid. I've spent the day on and off in tears, he's got four lovely kids and he's been so worried about them at school and has only just himself back on his feet after a lot of mental health problems. They've been through so much.


Oh the poor man, hope he pulls through it. Although I fortunately don't know anyone currently in hospital with Covid I too have found myself in tears on and off the last couple of days, my mental health is taking an absolute battering at the moment! Take care @MollySmith and anyone who is feeling low x


----------



## catz4m8z

3dogs2cats said:


> Take care @MollySmith and anyone who is feeling low x


Agreed. I think many people are feeling the strain now, wether you have had problems with your mental health before or not. I hope everybody out there has someone to talk to if they need them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

And yet I hear today of someone who attended a New Year's Eve party in mixed company and is going to be breaking rules again tomorrow....

So sorry @MollySmith to hear about your friend. I really hope they get through this.


----------



## catz4m8z

Reading the news today and its getting even bleaker on the healthcare front. There are looking at trying to find beds in care homes as the hospitals will def be overwhelmed in the next 2 weeks.
Looks like we should all be self isolating....not just to avoid the virus, but also to avoid any accident or illness that might require a Dr or hospital in the near future!:Nailbiting


----------



## Nonnie

My friend is currently pretty ill with it.

Stupid thing is, is that he works for the ambulance service as a dispatch team leader, and they are only to be off work if they have symptoms. They arent tested unless they do either unlike many other jobs.

Initially they tested, but when one shift tested 60% positive, they had to stop as they would have no one to answer the 999 calls. Even now about 30% of staff are off work with varying symptoms.


----------



## Bisbow

I have just heard that my granddaughter and her partner have tested positive,
It seems one of his workmates carried on working after being tested positive and a number of the crew are now suffering
He should be punished for his stupidness

GD and partner have two little boys to care for so I am hoping it is just mild but my GD is overweight and that is a worry
Fingers crossed and praying all will be well


----------



## HarlequinCat

Bisbow said:


> I have just heard that my granddaughter and her partner have tested positive,
> It seems one of his workmates carried on working after being tested positive and a number of the crew are now suffering
> He should be punished for his stupidness
> 
> GD and partner have two little boys to care for so I am hoping it is just mild but my GD is overweight and that is a worry
> Fingers crossed and praying all will be well


Sorry to hear this! Hope they get better soon. I just don't understand people who know they have covid and yet still put others at risk by carrying on as normal. There should be some repercussions for that guy!


----------



## Siskin

Watching the coronavirus update on bbc 1 and the interview with a scientist, Sir John Bell. I like him, Captain Sensible


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> So sadly heard a close friend and former colleague is in hospital on oxygen with Covid. I've spent the day on and off in tears, he's got four lovely kids and he's been so worried about them at school and has only just himself back on his feet after a lot of mental health problems. They've been through so much.


I'm so sorry, that's awful. I hope you're okay too, it's awful when know people who are affected. Think you said before that you've had few close to you with it.

Thinking of all those who are worried about those who have this awful virus.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> @MollySmith I'm sorry to hear that.





ebonycat said:


> So sorry to hear about your friend.
> I truly hope he can pull through, his poor family





3dogs2cats said:


> Oh the poor man, hope he pulls through it. Although I fortunately don't know anyone currently in hospital with Covid I too have found myself in tears on and off the last couple of days, my mental health is taking an absolute battering at the moment! Take care @MollySmith and anyone who is feeling low x





Lurcherlad said:


> And yet I hear today of someone who attended a New Year's Eve party in mixed company and is going to be breaking rules again tomorrow....
> 
> So sorry @MollySmith to hear about your friend. I really hope they get through this.





Pawscrossed said:


> I'm so sorry, that's awful. I hope you're okay too, it's awful when know people who are affected. Think you said before that you've had few close to you with it.
> 
> Thinking of all those who are worried about those who have this awful virus.


Thank you so much. He was off oxygen but back on it today. It's awful. Second friend in Spain is now in hospital, she's completely alone - no kids or partner and we've sadly only found out after she's been there for a few weeks. I'm not sure how she is, it's hard to find out.My goddaughter is isolating for the second time in two months - she's a theatre assistant at a hospital and the staff are dropping so fast. We had the death of a friend in the summer who was vulnerable too.

massive hugs to everyone struggling and with those in hospital, there just aren't words.


----------



## willa

My parents have friend who’s in hospital with Covid pneumonia. Tbf I didn’t know that was even a thing


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> My parents have friend who's in hospital with Covid pneumonia. Tbf I didn't know that was even a thing


Thats pretty much the only thing people come in with, all the patients have covid pneumonia! Generally its the people whose lungs are badly affected and need oxygen who need to be admitted.
Thankfully most people are sorted with oxygen support and a short course of steroids and anti viral medication.


----------



## MilleD

catz4m8z said:


> Reading the news today and its getting even bleaker on the healthcare front. There are looking at trying to find beds in care homes as the hospitals will def be overwhelmed in the next 2 weeks.
> Looks like we should all be self isolating....not just to avoid the virus, but also to avoid any accident or illness that might require a Dr or hospital in the near future!:Nailbiting


Indeed.

There is a post on my local Facebook page this morning, slating the council for not gritting paths as some old dear had fallen over and banged her head.

It's all I can do to stop myself putting on the post "WHY ARE YOU EVEN OUT???!!!!".

I might need to step away from Facebook totally.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> There is a post on my local Facebook page this morning, slating the council for not gritting paths as some old dear had fallen over and banged her head.
> 
> It's all I can do to stop myself putting on the post *"WHY ARE YOU EVEN OUT??*?!!!!".
> 
> .


Maybe she needed to go out . Not everyone has a family to look after them and do the shopping for them.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Maybe she needed to go out . Not everyone has a family to look after them and do the shopping for them.


She was with her husband.

And the council offers loads of help if people need it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> She was with her husband.
> 
> *And the council offers loads of help if people need it*.


Have you ever tried to get help from the council.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Have you ever tried to get help from the council.


I work for one so I know how they work.

And they are doing their damnedest to support people around here who have no-one else.

And there a support networks all over the place that have sprung up since last year.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I work for one so I know how they work.
> 
> And they are doing their damnedest to support people around here who have no-one else.
> 
> And there a support networks all over the place that have sprung up since last year.


Not or councils are the same.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> Indeed.
> 
> There is a post on my local Facebook page this morning, slating the council for not gritting paths as some old dear had fallen over and banged her head.
> 
> It's all I can do to stop myself putting on the post "WHY ARE YOU EVEN OUT???!!!!".
> 
> I might need to step away from Facebook totally.


Our council hasn't gritted paths in like forever...their thought process is that if the grit the path and someone still falls then they can (note can, not will) make a claim for damages but if the council don't grit them and people fall then that is on them and tough, essentially...
I have to walk in the roads when it gets icy otherwise I spend my time picking myself up off the floor.

But yeah...we are allowed out for exercise and for some people just a quick stroll around the block can help with MH
There are many genuine reasons for that lady to be out and about.


----------



## ForestWomble

MilleD said:


> She was with her husband.
> *
> And the council offers loads of help if people need it*.


To be fair not everyone has access to internet, or even if they do, might only know how to do things like checking and writing emails, they might not be aware of the help available.

I know where I am, the council haven't been obvious about the help you can ask for, I wasn't aware there was any help available until my parents told me, I had a search but found nothing, in the end Dad had quite a search to find the info he wanted on the council website so he could tell me who I could contact to ask for help if needed.

Thankfully as my Gran is currently going through cancer treatment, she was on some sort of list and she got a phonecall from her council, asking her if she wanted any help with anything, I couldn't fault what they've done for her, they were brilliant. However you do seem to have to be on a list to get offered the help.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Our council hasn't gritted paths in like forever...their thought process is that if the grit the path and someone still falls then they can (note can, not will) make a claim for damages but if the council don't grit them and people fall then that is on them and tough, essentially...


That's an urban myth.


----------



## MilleD

I love that you all think there is a valid reason for people to be out.

So why moan when there are thousands of people milling about in the town centres? Surely they all have a valid reason right?

Doesn't matter if you are clogging up A&E and causing even more pressure on the NHS! Hell no, come on out everyone, dance on the ice.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> That's an urban myth.


Are you suggesting that I am lying? Or are you saying the council employee that told me such is lying?


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I love that you all think there is a valid reason for people to be out.
> 
> So why moan when there are thousands of people milling about in the town centres? Surely they all have a valid reason right?
> 
> Doesn't matter if you are clogging up A&E and causing even more pressure on the NHS! Hell no, come on out everyone, dance on the ice.


I dont quite get it. Who's to say she was going shopping etc.

Yes elderly are vulnerable and really should not go shopping, though I know in some cases its unavoidable. You have elderly or vulnerable on their own, with no family to help access any services the council may provide. Our ones certainly don't freely give out any such information. I live away from my mum and she can't get out to shop so anytime she asks I order a home delivery for her. Not everyone has help like that.

Plus as long as you keep away from each other everyone needs to get out for fresh air. She probably just misjudged how icy it was. Anyone going for a walk can trip and hurt themselves, you can't expect everyone to stay in just incase that might happen


----------



## StormyThai

People milling about in town centres isn't really comparable to an elderly lady that slipped on the path.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Are you suggesting that I am lying? Or are you saying the council employee that told me such is lying?


I work for the council. I used to work in the insurance section where they deal with such claims.

What you are stating is not true. Google it, there is no liability caused by gritting a path or a road.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> People milling about in town centres isn't really comparable to an elderly lady that slipped on the path.


It's absolutely comparable if she is there for the same reason they are.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> I work for the council. I used to work in the insurance section where they deal with such claims.
> 
> What you are stating is not true. Google it, there is no liability caused by gritting a path or a road.


I didn't say that there was any liability, I just stated the reason that I have been given by my council as to why they don't grit the paths in my area.



MilleD said:


> It's absolutely comparable if she is there for the same reason they are.


The point is that we don't know why she was out, she could have had a genuine reason...she could have slipped when she was on her way to get some milk.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> I didn't say that there was any liability, I just stated the reason that I have been given by my council as to why they don't grit the paths in my area.


Of course. That's exactly what the council would say. 

Your winter weather questions answered | Local Government Association

Think I'm done with this thread for a while.


----------



## mrs phas

StormyThai said:


> Our council hasn't gritted paths in like forever...their thought process is that if the grit the path and someone still falls then they can (note can, not will) make a claim for damages but if the council don't grit them and people fall then that is on them and tough, essentially...
> I have to walk in the roads when it gets icy otherwise I spend my time picking myself up off the floor.
> 
> But yeah...we are allowed out for exercise and for some people just a quick stroll around the block can help with MH
> There are many genuine reasons for that lady to be out and about.


Babergh are the same, roads yes, paths no
They even sent a flyer, some years ago, telling all tenants that if they salted/gritted their house paths, they (the tenants) would be liable for any insurance claims, not the council
Mind, babergh are not much cop anyway, unless it's voting for their expenses to increase, or, it's an election year

Edit to add this, posted by a councillor, and very very fake, scaremongering news (I have redacted their,and the hospital's name for obvious reasons)

Dear Residents 
I have to inform you that the XXXX XXXXXXXXX intensive care units are now full with 155 patients needing treatment for confirmed Covid19. Most wards have up to 50% staff off ill. Things are now at a critical level, everyone must take extreme care when leaving their house, I cannot emphasise this enough.

Why is it fake and scatemongering hear you ask

Well, there's only 13 intensive care beds across the whole hospital!
There may, or may not, be 155 covid patients across the WHOLE hospital 
But 
Certainly not in intensive care beds

So why would anyone want to believe councils want to actually help more at this time of crisis, when councillors are complicit in putting out misinformation?


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> It's all I can do to stop myself putting on the post "WHY ARE YOU EVEN OUT???!!!!".


My grandpa lost so much muscle in the first lockdown from not getting out.
Yes it's probably unwise to go out in the current icy conditions but he was getting physio for months to improve things afterward.
Also my dad couldn't get him any help from the council, 96 year old living alone at home. Took a fair job to get him on a priority list for Sainsburys delivery.


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Babergh are the same, roads yes, paths no


We're lucky if the roads get done, even if they're bus routes.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

[QUOTE="StormyThai, post: 1065716539,

The point is that we don't know why she was out, she could have had a genuine reason...she could have slipped when she was on her way to get some milk.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! She could have been going for the Covid vaccine for all we know!


----------



## mrs phas

Arny said:


> Also my dad couldn't get him any help from the council, 96 year old living alone at home. Took a fair job to get him on a priority list for Sainsburys delivery.


Even though I get shopping deliveries, I still have to go out and collect medication for Matt and I, even in the first big lockdown, I had to get our own medication, volunteers wouldn't take the responsibility
And, before anyone asks 
Any that do delivery shut their books for new patient prescriptions back in march 2020, and still haven't reopened them


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> Even though I get shopping deliveries, I still have to go out and collect medication for Matt and I, even in the first big lockdown, I had to get our own medication, volunteers wouldn't take the responsibility
> And, before anyone asks
> Any that do delivery shut their books for new patient prescriptions back in march 2020, and still haven't reopened them


Where I am everyone was putting leaflets through of offers of help but he was in London (passed away at the end of last year, thankfully not covid) and there just wasn't anything.
We were so fortunate that his neighbours collected things for him once they realised he needed help while deliveries were sorted.


----------



## Elles

3dogs2cats said:


> [QUOTE="StormyThai, post: 1065716539,
> 
> The point is that we don't know why she was out, she could have had a genuine reason...she could have slipped when she was on her way to get some milk.


 Exactly! She could have been going for the Covid vaccine for all we know![/QUOTE]

There are more accidents in the home than anywhere else, so maybe we should all go out. 

https://www.rospa.com/home-safety/advice/general/facts-and-figures

We all need to get fresh air and exercise, or we end up ill anyway.  I was out for a short walk with Elles yesterday, it wasn't frozen when we left, but by the time we got back, there was a sheet of ice where someone had washed their car and I nearly went a over t on it.


----------



## Siskin

Apparently my neighbour did have covid and seems to have had an easy ride considering he’s in his mid 60’s. He’s now out and about and doesn’t appear to have suffered greatly in any way which is great and very heartening. He has had a couple of health issues in the past, but he is a fit slim man who doesn’t smoke or drink much and works outdoors as a gardener.
However next door to them the elderly man with several health issues was taken into hospital yesterday delirious from covid, his wife has applied for a test, both have recently had the vaccine. He has carers coming in twice daily, both carers said they have had covid. As these are the only people he sees and neither of them go out it’s possible the carers were either still infectious or are carrying the infection somehow. All our houses are detached.
Also heard that a lady who used to live in the village and moved into a care home a few years ago now has covid as do many in the home. She had also been inoculated, presumably not had an immune response yet.

On a good note, heard that a friends husband who is aged around 77 has been called for his inoculation, so it’s getting closer to me and my husband turn.


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> Why is it fake and scatemongering hear you ask
> 
> Well, there's only 13 intensive care beds across the whole hospital!
> There may, or may not, be 155 covid patients across the WHOLE hospital
> But
> Certainly not in intensive care beds
> 
> So why would anyone want to believe councils want to actually help more at this time of crisis, when councillors are complicit in putting out misinformation?


Dont discount it so quickly...they may be telling the truth! My hospital only officially registers so many ICU beds but if you add up all the temporary beds, pts stuck in A&E for days or on random wards on ventilators it actually adds up to double our capacity. There are now no wards that arent respiratory wards (except things like maternity and childrens) as covid pts are taking up all the general medical beds. 
We have no beds, tons of staff off sick and oxygen running low because so many pts need it. I know scaremongering is a thing at times like this, esp for the newspapers, but for once the situation is exactly as dire as stated.

Obviously people do have to go out for essential reasons but please try and stay safe everybody! Stay off the ice and if you have an elderly/vulnerable neighbour, friend or relative see if they need any help....


----------



## Gemmaa

UK approved the Moderna vaccine


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Dont discount it so quickly...they may be telling the truth! My hospital only officially registers so many ICU beds but if you add up all the temporary beds, pts stuck in A&E for days or on random wards on ventilators it actually adds up to double our capacity. There are now no wards that arent respiratory wards (except things like maternity and childrens) as covid pts are taking up all the general medical beds.
> We have no beds, tons of staff off sick and oxygen running low because so many pts need it. I know scaremongering is a thing at times like this, esp for the newspapers, but for once the situation is exactly as dire as stated.
> 
> Obviously people do have to go out for essential reasons but please try and stay safe everybody! Stay off the ice and if you have an elderly/vulnerable neighbour, friend or relative see if they need any help....


Totally agree 
Hence me saying that there may be 155 patients across the whole hospital 
And tbh, I, nor anyone else not directly connected to the hospital, know how many are being treated, intensively, in standard wards 
It was more the inflammatory wording, that makes it seem that 155 patients are being treated, in the unit alone, that was scaremongering 
I'd hate to think that someone was to die from, for example, a heart attack, because they didn't want to be another burden on the hospital, because of that post


----------



## Guest

10 million doses of moderna ordered
100 million Oxford AstraZeneca doses
40 million Pfizer doses ordered

The UK has more than enough vaccines now as there is only 66.65 million people living in the the UK according to UN figures 2019. So there will be 9 million doses wasted. That is without taking off the figures for those that died.


----------



## Elles

There’ll be new babies and people who die who have had the vaccination, so we’ll need a lot more than just today’s population.


----------



## Guest

Elles said:


> There'll be new babies and people who die who have had the vaccination, so we'll need a lot more than just today's population.


They are only vaccinating the adult population over 16 and the clinically extremely vulnerable.


----------



## mrs phas

rawpawsrus said:


> They are only vaccinating the adult population over 16 and the clinically extremely vulnerable.


At the moment
No one can predict how this may change
Especially as one of the variants is targeting younger people


----------



## Jobeth

Elles said:


> We all need to get fresh air and exercise, or we end up ill anyway.


I agree and I'm really pleased that my parents in their late 70s go for a walk every day. I'd hate to think they were stuck at home and would worry more about that. I did want them to do internet shopping but they don't want to as they prefer to go the local shops.


----------



## Guest

mrs phas said:


> At the moment


But this is what everyone is going off "At the moment" without making assumptions. Yes it may evolve that they give the vaccine to younger people but "At the moment" they are only accomodating vaccinating the adult population and clinically extremely vulnerable.

The Government has said it repeatedly that they are vaccinating the adult population and the clinically extremely vulnerable.

It is going to take until December for every adult and clinically extremely vulnerable person in the UK to have two vaccines.

I used this calculator to see when mine will be due:- https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk


----------



## Jesthar

rawpawsrus said:


> But this is what everyone is going off "At the moment" without making assumptions. Yes it may evolve that they give the vaccine to younger people but "At the moment" they are only accomodating vaccinating the adult population and clinically extremely vulnerable.
> 
> The Government has said it repeatedly that they are vaccinating the adult population and the clinically extremely vulnerable.
> 
> It is going to take until December for every adult and clinically extremely vulnerable person in the UK to have two vaccines.
> 
> I used this calculator to see when mine will be due:- https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk


Ordering the doses isn't the same as getting them delivered, they have to be made first. 100 million doses of a vaccine isn't an overnight job.

And as far as I am concerned, better to have too many than too few. We could always sell on those we don't use, after all.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Ordering the doses isn't the same as getting them delivered, they have to be made first. 100 million doses of a vaccine isn't an overnight job.
> 
> And as far as I am concerned, better to have too many than too few. We could always sell on those we don't use, after all.


Plus what are they saying for boosters is bi annually or annually... I have read both by the time they have vaccinated the whole population it will be nearly time to begin again for the onset of next winter.


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> And as far as I am concerned, better to have too many than too few. We could always sell on those we don't use, after all.


Plus it takes into account wastage. It isnt always easy to get the right amount of doses out of a vial!


----------



## rona

I'm not sure how it works,but I heard that we are helping poorer countries with the vaccinations. I'm sure if we have any over, they WILL NOT go to waste


----------



## Elles

rawpawsrus said:


> They are only vaccinating the adult population over 16 and the clinically extremely vulnerable.


next week's over 16 and clinically vulnerable, won't be the same as this week's. So we need more vaccinations than just today's population. It'll be ongoing.

I read Canada has ordered 9 doses per capita.


----------



## mrs phas

1325 deaths, within 28 days of a positive test, recorded today  I know they won't all be because of covid directly, but still
A new high of the previous 12 months
This is just the begining of the flood from the Christmas tomfoolery (being 14 days since Christmas day)
It will get worse


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> Babergh are the same, roads yes, paths no
> They even sent a flyer, some years ago, telling all tenants that if they salted/gritted their house paths, they (the tenants) would be liable for any insurance claims, not the council
> Mind, babergh are not much cop anyway, unless it's voting for their expenses to increase, or, it's an election year
> 
> Edit to add this, posted by a councillor, and very very fake, scaremongering news (I have redacted their,and the hospital's name for obvious reasons)
> 
> Dear Residents
> I have to inform you that the XXXX XXXXXXXXX intensive care units are now full with 155 patients needing treatment for confirmed Covid19. Most wards have up to 50% staff off ill. Things are now at a critical level, everyone must take extreme care when leaving their house, I cannot emphasise this enough.
> 
> Why is it fake and scatemongering hear you ask
> 
> Well, there's only 13 intensive care beds across the whole hospital!
> There may, or may not, be 155 covid patients across the WHOLE hospital
> But
> Certainly not in intensive care beds
> 
> So why would anyone want to believe councils want to actually help more at this time of crisis, when councillors are complicit in putting out misinformation?


I did see that some hospitals had turned operating theatres into ICU to cope with the influx of new patients with Covid so it's possible there are more ICI beds than before.

It's been majorly stressed in the press and media that anyone who needs care because of heart problems or cancer scares etc. should still go to hospital regardless.


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> I did see that some hospitals had turned operating theatres into ICU to cope with the influx of new patients with Covid so it's possible there are more ICI beds than before.
> 
> It's been majorly stressed in the press and media that anyone who needs care because of heart problems or cancer scares etc. should still go to hospital regardless.


From what I have been reading, been told most hospitals have had to double ICU beds, expand critical etc so as what @catz4m8z has already stated there has been a lot of shuffling movement to accommodate. One of my local hospitals has already declared a critical incident, then stood down.. I think this is what we are going to hear time and time again from hospitals now.


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> 1325 deaths, within 28 days of a positive test, recorded today  I know they won't all be because of covid directly, but still
> A new high of the previous 12 months
> This is just the begining of the flood from the Christmas tomfoolery (being 14 days since Christmas day)
> It will get worse


I think we are just about getting some of the deaths that happened over the Xmas period. The yellow notice that was on the website has only just gone.
My own area has the last two days been recording significantly less than the previous two days,in fact the positive test have virtually halved.
However, I also keep an eye on Pembrokshire, as the OH's father is there and that has more than trebled in a day. If that has happened over the whole of Wales because of lack of records,then the numbers will be from previous days


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> Even though I get shopping deliveries, I still have to go out and collect medication for Matt and I, even in the first big lockdown, I had to get our own medication, volunteers wouldn't take the responsibility
> And, before anyone asks
> Any that do delivery shut their books for new patient prescriptions back in march 2020, and still haven't reopened them


much the same but we don't get any deliveries for food. I can't get any slots so I'm relying on vegbox, the open air market except our council closed it down last week with no evidence of Covid there (but it's okay to go to Lidl etc) and local shops who are offering collection or delivery. This morning 7am at Waitrose who seem to be the most sensible but it's so damm expensive.

but yes I have to leave the house for medication and dog walks, I also bought grit for our driveway and paths was our council do not grit our little street but haven't ever promised to but with dyspraxia I can fall over very easily!


----------



## PawsOnMe

My dad is in hospital at the moment and he says the wards are packed, most have been converted into covid wards and one of his friends is on a covid ward in the same hospital struggling on a ventilator. My dad is in his 60s so I'm hoping he's allowed to go home soon, it's quite worrying at the moment.


----------



## Boxer123

PawsOnMe said:


> My dad is in hospital at the moment and he says the wards are packed, most have been converted into covid wards and one of his friends is on a covid ward in the same hospital struggling on a ventilator. My dad is in his 60s so I'm hoping he's allowed to go home soon, it's quite worrying at the moment.


I hope he is home soon how scary.


----------



## Happy Paws2

PawsOnMe said:


> My dad is in hospital at the moment and he says the wards are packed, most have been converted into covid wards and one of his friends is on a covid ward in the same hospital struggling on a ventilator. My dad is in his 60s so I'm hoping he's allowed to go home soon, it's quite worrying at the moment.


Sorry to hear about your Dad, hope he's back home very soon. I hope his friend will be OK.


----------



## Lurcherlad

PawsOnMe said:


> My dad is in hospital at the moment and he says the wards are packed, most have been converted into covid wards and one of his friends is on a covid ward in the same hospital struggling on a ventilator. My dad is in his 60s so I'm hoping he's allowed to go home soon, it's quite worrying at the moment.


Hope he's home soon, safe and sound.


----------



## Chillicat

Good morning everyone, it has been a while since I last posted or even browsed on here (at least a year ).

I found myself here rather then studying (putting off completing an essay due in tomorrow ). I am finding it very hard to focus on my studies at the moment with so much going on and like everyone, I am finding life rather strange at the moment & it is most definitely presenting many challenges especially for my work place.

Working in a nursery has always been entertaining & difficult days thrown in amongst easy days has been the norm for the whole of my career (25yrs & counting ), yet this last 10 months just does not compare. We are beyond exhausted (I know we are not the only working category in this situation), staffing issues have been a nightmare to deal with as we are still expected to stick to our ratios as best we can and parents are desperate for childcare, but the sector is on its knees as Early Years Practitioners are slowly becoming extinct. My town alone has job adverts for over 12 of its nurseries & these have been in place since the Autumn with not enough EYP's to go round.

My nursery was closed for 7 weeks in the last lockdown as the take up of places was so low (some days only 1 child) that it just was not sustainable to remain open. We hated being closed, but being part of an Independent school meant that they had the overall say. However, this time around our take up for places is approximately 90% with some parents wanting even more sessions, but we just don't have the staff as we have some shielding and others having to juggle their own childcare. Yet the government have basically told the country that our sector is open with business as usual . We have spent the last week organising our setting so that we can cover the parents requests & we have managed it successfully, but we have no contingency if staff are sick & we can forget any annual leave for the foreseeable future.

As a setting we are extremely proud of the way we have managed the circumstances so far, we haven't yet had a single case at our nursery, but we are so frustrated at being the invisible sector again. This last week has all been about teachers & schools & how they are at risk (which I know they are), yet very little is said about Early Years. Social distancing just doesn't exist, yesterday I had a child grab my pen from my lanyard & try to put it in her mouth, I took it away & she tried to stick it up her nose, this was all whilst giving her a cuddle as she was tired & waiting to go home. As for the washing hands for 20 seconds, try keeping a toddler at the sink for more then 2 seconds and your onto a winner . I absolutely love my job & couldn't imagine doing anything else, but I just wish that we were recognised for what we do. The pay is appalling, yet the government are talking about how important Early Years settings are in terms of education for under 5's and supporting the key workers in being able to work. As a setting we have decided to go against the government advice about PPE & all staff are given the choice of wearing face masks/shields if they want to (we all are) and the school is also setting up mass testing for all staff on site each week (they have brought their own test kits). We made this decision based on keeping the staff safe & the children have been great & not at all bothered by either the face masks/shields. For the most part we wear the shields in the room with the children so that they can still see our faces. However, I am dreading the day we get our first positive case (I'm sure it's only a matter of time) as I know that this will create even more anxiety.

I'm so sorry that my first post here for over a year has been a rant , I didn't mean for that, but needed to get it off my chest. I promise I will be a round more often this year

I do hope everyone else is as well as they can be. It is unusual times (understatement of the century).


----------



## Calvine

LittleEms said:


> crowds of people wandering up and down the high street!


Same here . . . many staring into the windows of shops which are closed until God-knows-when so they can't buy anything anyway, except online; and they don't need to walk the streets to do that. It's doubly bad for clothes shops, of course, as by the time the shops re-open, they will likely need to remove all the winter clothes and replace them with summer ones. Most of the clothes shops here have huge ''SALE'' signs in their windows in anticipation of raking in a few quid when they do open (if they haven't gone bankrupt).


----------



## Calvine

Chillicat said:


> Good morning everyone, it has been a while since I last posted or even browsed on here (at least a year ).
> 
> I found myself here rather then studying (putting off completing an essay due in tomorrow ). I am finding it very hard to focus on my studies at the moment with so much going on and like everyone, I am finding life rather strange at the moment & it is most definitely presenting many challenges especially for my work place.
> 
> Working in a nursery has always been entertaining & difficult days thrown in amongst easy days has been the norm for the whole of my career (25yrs & counting ), yet this last 10 months just does not compare. We are beyond exhausted (I know we are not the only working category in this situation), staffing issues have been a nightmare to deal with as we are still expected to stick to our ratios as best we can and parents are desperate for childcare, but the sector is on its knees as Early Years Practitioners are slowly becoming extinct. My town alone has job adverts for over 12 of its nurseries & these have been in place since the Autumn with not enough EYP's to go round.
> 
> My nursery was closed for 7 weeks in the last lockdown as the take up of places was so low (some days only 1 child) that it just was not sustainable to remain open. We hated being closed, but being part of an Independent school meant that they had the overall say. However, this time around our take up for places is approximately 90% with some parents wanting even more sessions, but we just don't have the staff as we have some shielding and others having to juggle their own childcare. Yet the government have basically told the country that our sector is open with business as usual . We have spent the last week organising our setting so that we can cover the parents requests & we have managed it successfully, but we have no contingency if staff are sick & we can forget any annual leave for the foreseeable future.
> 
> As a setting we are extremely proud of the way we have managed the circumstances so far, we haven't yet had a single case at our nursery, but we are so frustrated at being the invisible sector again. This last week has all been about teachers & schools & how they are at risk (which I know they are), yet very little is said about Early Years. Social distancing just doesn't exist, yesterday I had a child grab my pen from my lanyard & try to put it in her mouth, I took it away & she tried to stick it up her nose, this was all whilst giving her a cuddle as she was tired & waiting to go home. As for the washing hands for 20 seconds, try keeping a toddler at the sink for more then 2 seconds and your onto a winner . I absolutely love my job & couldn't imagine doing anything else, but I just wish that we were recognised for what we do. The pay is appalling, yet the government are talking about how important Early Years settings are in terms of education for under 5's and supporting the key workers in being able to work. As a setting we have decided to go against the government advice about PPE & all staff are given the choice of wearing face masks/shields if they want to (we all are) and the school is also setting up mass testing for all staff on site each week (they have brought their own test kits). We made this decision based on keeping the staff safe & the children have been great & not at all bothered by either the face masks/shields. For the most part we wear the shields in the room with the children so that they can still see our faces. However, I am dreading the day we get our first positive case (I'm sure it's only a matter of time) as I know that this will create even more anxiety.
> 
> Believe me, you are very much recognised and appreciated for what you do. Have spoken to three parents with lively toddlers and they all say they honestly do not know how they would cope with working from home if the nursery closed. I bumped into a friend of my son's whose daughter's nursery is in my road - this was when we heard there would be a third lockdown - and pretty much all he could say was ''We are just hoping and praying that the nursery stays open''. A) Because he and wife both working from home and B) the little girl just loves being there.
> 
> I'm so sorry that my first post here for over a year has been a rant , I didn't mean for that, but needed to get it off my chest. I promise I will be a round more often this year
> 
> I do hope everyone else is as well as they can be. It is unusual times (understatement of the century).


----------



## tabelmabel

Sending good wishes to you for your Dad, @PawsOnMe.

I am a bit behind on this thread but I don't _think _this has been mentioned before: about the 2 women fined £200 each for driving 5 miles to walk at a beauty spot by Derbyshire police.

I cant understand how they can be fined because (if i understand it rightly) what they did wasn't illegal. They were within their local authority area but got fined because the police said driving to exercise 'wasnt in the spirit of the lockdown'

I do agree with the police on this one but they surely cant fine when the women acted legally?!

A bloke phoned into sara cox yesterday. I was only half listening so i didnt catch whether it was his birthday or his child's. I'm going to be generous and say his child's.

My ears pricked up when he dropped in that he is celebrating today (sat) by having a treasure hunt on the beach! No joke. This is the problem isnt it. People just arent getting it that they need to stay indoors this time.

There was a woman on the news last night who had lost her Dad to covid. She was upset of course and maybe not thinking clearly but she blamed the government for not imposing lockdown earlier. If they had, apparantly, her Dad would still be with us.

If people are going to push what is allowed to the max (by travelling all over their local authority) and won't stay indoors, then they put themselves and others at risk. Plain and simple. Treasure hunt on the beach, great. Just be selfish think the rules of staying in dont apply on your birthday.

I actually think Derbyshire police have got the right attitude. There is no need to be heading to a beauty spot 5 miles away in a lockdown. I certainly havent been in my car since lockdown was announced. Sticking as close to home as possible is what we all need to do.

And i wont be blaming the government if i catch it. I will be blaming myself for going near to someone. If we all stay in and away from others, we can't catch it. Obvious.

I do know many people do have to go to work, and a lot of employers are insisting employees come in to work when they shouldn't. All these people have my greatest sympathy. I know not all of us can stay in our houses for very valid reasons.

But a lot of us are going out for non essential reasons, further than we need. We shouldnt need the government to impose a stricter lockdown to save our lives. It is within our own power to do that by staying in. Where possible. If as many of us that can do that do it, it will help.


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> Sending good wishes to you for your Dad, @PawsOnMe.
> 
> I am a bit behind on this thread but I don't _think _this has been mentioned before: about the 2 women fined £200 each for driving 5 miles to walk at a beauty spot by Derbyshire police.
> 
> I cant understand how they can be fined because (if i understand it rightly) what they did wasn't illegal. They were within their local authority area but got fined because the police said driving to exercise 'wasnt in the spirit of the lockdown'
> 
> I do agree with the police on this one but they surely cant fine when the women acted legally?!


Pretty sure we aren't getting the full story here. They didn't look like they were dressed for much exercise, maybe they always put on full make-up and posh clothes to go for exercise, who knows.

But I do have a question. If there were two of them, who took the photograph of them that has been on the news stories?


----------



## tabelmabel

Good points @MilleD. Hefty fines, too. I liked those fines. Here, in Scotland, police raided an all night party on Jan 1st. In a pub lock in.

I cant remember the numbers there but it was a lot. And they had already managed to party right through the night before police got to them next day.

The fine?

£30!!!!

Honest to goodness, they must have laughed at that one. Cost more in admin fees to process the fine. We need some Derbyshire police up here. There is no evidence of any lockdown near me. Just like normal. Roads are busy.


----------



## margy

I have to drive in my job, Iv'e noticed a lot more traffic on the roads compared to March. During the last lock down we were told not to drive unless going to work in case you had an accident, so easing pressure on hospitals. I would take exercising in your area to mean within walking distance of your house. But this time around the rules aren't clear or haven't been explained properly.


----------



## Blackadder

tabelmabel said:


> I am a bit behind on this thread but I don't _think _this has been mentioned before: about the 2 women fined £200 each for driving 5 miles to walk at a beauty spot by Derbyshire police.
> 
> I cant understand how they can be fined because (if i understand it rightly) what they did wasn't illegal. They were within their local authority area but got fined because the police said driving to exercise 'wasnt in the spirit of the lockdown'
> 
> I do agree with the police on this one but they surely cant fine when the women acted legally?!


They can't be fined, they have done nothing wrong! 


> But in a statement, the force said further guidance issued by the National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) had "clarified the policing response concerning travel and exercise".
> 
> The guidance said: "The Covid regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs [fixed penalty notices] for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise."


----------



## tabelmabel

The news report last night said they *had already been* fined and would be appealing the fine in court.


----------



## Bisbow

tabelmabel said:


> Sending good wishes to you for your Dad, @PawsOnMe
> But a lot of us are going out for non essential reasons, further than we need. We shouldnt need the government to impose a stricter lockdown to save our lives. It is within our own power to do that by staying in. Where possible. If as many of us that can do that do it, it will help.


Exactly
How many brain cells does it take to understand

STAY IN. DON'T GO OUT

Trouble is a lot of people these days have no idea what self discipline means


----------



## tabelmabel

margy said:


> . But this time around the rules aren't clear or haven't been explained properly


I agree the rules this time are a combination of far too leniant and unclear but, honestly, how brainless can people be. It is so obvious that if you go out and about all over your local authority area then you put yourself at risk of catching the virus and dying. It really is not difficult to understand that if you stay in your house then it is impossible to get the virus.

Obviously, i understand that we do need to get our 'essential shopping' But this can easily be a quick nip out at a quiet time, grab what you need and get back in again.

Adults shouldnt need to be waiting for stricter government force to come in. We can just do this now. Same as christmas. Just because it was legal to mingle on christmas day didnt mean it was safe.

To be safe, you need to stay away from people. You cant really be surprised if you get ill after being near others; to blame the government for your illness because they didnt enforce a stricter lockdown just makes no sense (unless you are forced in to work by your employer, or are a keyworker and have to be near people)

Im certainly not putting up any defence of the government here. Just that us adults have been given the info and just because it is legal to do certain things, doesnt mean it is safe. Surely, we can all see that? I dont wait about for governments to restrict my movement. I can see for myself that the way to keep safe is to stay in.


----------



## tabelmabel

Well said @Bisbow ! You and me, we get it


----------



## Blackadder

They have been given Fixed Penalty Notices which you either pay or go to court & after the clarification I quoted above Derbyshire police said...


> In a statement, the force said all of its fixed penalties issued during the new national lockdown will be reviewed.


It's highly unlikely to get near court but if it does they can only be found not guilty as no crime has been committed.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

tabelmabel said:


> The news report last night said they *had already been* fined and would be appealing the fine in court.


The NPCC have advised Derbyshire Police the law does not set out the distance one may travel therefore DP are now reviewing any fines they have given out.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Bisbow said:


> Exactly
> How many brain cells does it take to understand
> 
> STAY IN. DON'T GO OUT
> 
> Trouble is a lot of people these days have no idea what self discipline means


Do you never go out to get food, walk your dog?


----------



## tabelmabel

I cant speak for bisbow @3dogs2cats but i myself am going out every day but hopefully in a safe a way as possible.

So.

The law says i can meet one person from another household. I have decided to not meet anyone and walk alone during the lockdown.

The law says i can drive all over my local authority.

I have decided to walk from home.

Though i might need to run my car down the road soon to keep it going. Bit cold here.

The law says i can go shopping whenever shops are open.

I have checked stocks and havent needed to go shopping yet. We were told that we would be going into lockdown after christmas. We were all told that back in november. This really cant have been a surprise to anyone.

I went to aldi in november for my lockdown shop and got tins of tuna, tomatoes, joints of freezer meat etc. It wasnt a massive hoarding shop, raiding any shelves. I think i spent about 160 quid which is double my normal but i took care to choose ingredients that will make a lot of dishes. And will keep.

I did my christmas shop in december.

I will need to go to the shops of course, but i will pop up to my local shop at 9 ish in the evening when it is very quiet.

I do totally appreciate that people live in very different situations but i do believe a lot of us could be doing a lot more to help ourselves.

If this virus made us all break out in unsighly pustules all over our faces that caused death for 50% of us and horrific facial scarring in all who caught it, i bet more of us could be getting indoors more of the time.


----------



## Bisbow

3dogs2cats said:


> Do you never go out to get food, walk your dog?


NO I do not go out to buy food, it is all delivered

OH takes Chilli out very early and locally, not a car ride away

I have not been out formonths


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## tabelmabel

I take it you are in a shielding group @Bisbow. It must be tough but your example just shows how it is possible to keep very safe. And it will be worth it, as now the end is in sight.

I am not in a shielding group, am in my 50s with no underlying health conditions.

During the first lockdown, i was very strict. As now. I was out and about a bit during august through to december, within guidelines.

It is a balance of course. We did go on a pre booked holiday in october to a self catering cottage. And i did visit a few cafes over those few months as that is a thing i very much enjoy and the places i visited felt safe enough at that time.

So i havent been a hermit. I do understand being locked down is unbearable for many. I do understand many people are living in awful housing conditions in almost impossible conditions. In fact, i think i said somewhere earlier on this thread that i dont sit in judgement of anyone else.

And i try very hard not to. But this time, im basing my thoughts on what i am seeing here on my doorstep where people are not trapped into high rise damp tower block housing. A lot of the people i am seeing out and about driving past me on the roads could be doing more to stay in and keep safe.

I know kids need to get out and play in the snow. I saw loads of them yesterday. With loads of adults clustered around chatting.

If we can all, as individuals, do our very best to stay away from other people, it will help. Do the very best we can. Not push the legal allowances to the limit and beyond.


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## catz4m8z

I think alot of people are like those 2 women TBH and trying to weasel their way around lockdown. Either thinking its ok to just pop round a friends house or because something hasnt been made law they dont have to do it (when you have to justify why you are going againest lockdown advice coz it isnt the law then you understand what you should be doing and are choosing not to do it!).

In a couple of weeks its my parents golden wedding anniversary. Id love to go visit them and they'd love to go out for a meal at least...but none of that will happen unfortunately. Staying safe is just more important at this time then seeing friends or family.
We dont have to like it....we just have to accept it.


----------



## MollySmith

PawsOnMe said:


> My dad is in hospital at the moment and he says the wards are packed, most have been converted into covid wards and one of his friends is on a covid ward in the same hospital struggling on a ventilator. My dad is in his 60s so I'm hoping he's allowed to go home soon, it's quite worrying at the moment.


Hugs, so sorry. I hope he's home very soon.


----------



## Bisbow

tabelmabel said:


> I take it you are in a shielding group @Bisbow. It must be tough but your example just shows how it is possible to keep very safe. And it will be worth it, as now the end is in sight.
> 
> I am not in a shielding group, am in my 50s with no underlying health conditions.
> 
> During the first lockdown, i was very strict. As now. I was out and about a bit during august through to december, within guidelines.
> 
> It is a balance of course. We did go on a pre booked holiday in october to a self catering cottage. And i did visit a few cafes over those few months as that is a thing i very much enjoy and the places i visited felt safe enough at that time.
> 
> So i havent been a hermit. I do understand being locked down is unbearable for many. I do understand many people are living in awful housing conditions in almost
> 
> And i try very hard not to. But this time, im basing my thoughts on what i am seeing here on my doorstep where people are not trapped into high rise damp tower block housing. A lot of the people i am seeing out and about driving past me on the roads could be doing more to stay in and keep safe.
> 
> I know kids need to get out and play in the snow. I saw loads of them yesterday. With loads of adults clustered around chatting.
> 
> If we can all, as individuals, do our very best to stay away from other people, it will help. Do the very best we can. Not push the legal allowances to the limit and beyond.


Yes, I am shielding and will be 80 in March
I have had my first jab I was told to keep shielding until my 2nd (tomorrow) by the Dr to keep as safe as possible until the jabs
have worked after about 2 weeks


----------



## Calvine

@Chillicat: Not sure why my original reply to your post went awol; but just to say, please be assured that you are very much appreciated - probably more than you will ever know; several people have said to me ''Thank God the nurseries are still open'' as two parents working (even from home) would find it impossible to function with a small child or two needing their attention and care. I bumped into a friend of my son's this week, carrying his little daughter after picking her up from nursery. He was absolutely full of praise for the staff at the nursery A) because it meant he and his wife could both work from home and B) because the little girl absolutely loves being there and does not give them a backward glance as she toddles off to her group. She is an only child and loves the company of the others. You really are receiving praise daily, though it may not seem so in these strange times! XX


----------



## MollySmith

I wonder if there’s any psychological correlation between the news of the vaccines and people taking risks? I try to get the news in short bits but have noticed more reports from hospitals especially on BBC, one assumes to lay home the consequences. It’s certainly upset me but then again I’m not the target audience.


----------



## Chillicat

Calvine said:


> @Chillicat: Not sure why my original reply to your post went awol; but just to say, please be assured that you are very much appreciated - probably more than you will ever know; several people have said to me ''Thank God the nurseries are still open'' as two parents working (even from home) would find it impossible to function with a small child or two needing their attention and care. I bumped into a friend of my son's this week, carrying his little daughter after picking her up from nursery. He was absolutely full of praise for the staff at the nursery A) because it meant he and his wife could both work from home and B) because the little girl absolutely loves being there and does not give them a backward glance as she toddles off to her group. She is an only child and loves the company of the others. You really are receiving praise daily, though it may not seem so in these strange times! XX


Thank you so much for this, it has been a rough week & I was feeling very frustrated (still am to some extent). 
Most of our parents have been amazing & are really appreciative of what we are doing, but there are always just a few that spoil it and like to create friction. We have adopted different opening hours (only closing 45 mins early) so that we can ensure we are throughly cleaning each day and to give just a little something back to the staff (it means we get approx 15mins back each day, over our 4 day working period), but some parents see this as a real problem as the government have basically said we are open as normal. I do understand that it may mean they have to re-juggle their work commitments, but unfortunately the lockdown has had a knock on effect & we have some staff that also have to finish early to collect their own children from school. 
It's the things that people don't see going on behind the scenes that frustrate me the most. Our working pattern is 40 hours over 4 days with a set day off, I haven't had a full day off since beginning of Nov when I had my first week off since May. Our hands are so raw from washing & sanitising them & we are cleaning so throughly to try & keep the nursery COVID free, we are just exhausted, but we hide this behind a smile and ensure that the children have a fantastic day with us & the parents are really not aware of any of this.

I'm just keeping in my mind that one day this will all be over & we will look back on this period with pride of how we played our part in it.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Hmm I think the walking from your home is fine as long as you are not in a very built up area. I've said before, here there's houses upon houses, with narrow paths that constantly have people walking along or you are in danger of bumping into people coming out of their house. Its bit of a nightmare. I've tried it and you are always cossing the road to avoid people, or actually walking in the road. Not fun!
Theres a good place 10 mins down the road from here, huge open spaces, lots of different ways to go and not that many people, you may seen a couple but they're so far away. In that instance I'd say the 10 minutes drive one is the safer option. Not to mention walking close to home is depressing as hell, all tarmac and bricks


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> To be safe, you need to stay away from people.


But, try as you may, there is always the one . . . got the bus to shop the other day, bus back was totally empty, just me. Great . . . until some daft cow got on and had to sit in the seat across the aisle. She then removed her mask (which was not covering her nose to start with) and proceeded to drink a takeaway coffee, and having slurped her way thro' that, remained with mask round her chin and proceeded to use her mobile. You can't win.
And the shop I went to had a lot of mothers and accompanying school-age children who, I thought, were receiving ''remote schooling'', and this was a weekday before 3pm.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve got two medical appts next week. Monday at the lymphoedema clinic about 10 miles away and on Tuesday at the Birmingham hospital for an X-ray and quarterly check up, a two hour drive. I’ve only got a letter of proof for the Tuesday appt, if we’re stopped on Monday I hope they believe me. Perhaps I can show them my fat leg and big scar


----------



## SbanR

Calvine said:


> But, try as you may, there is always the one . . . got the bus to shop the other day, bus back was totally empty, just me. Great . . . until some daft cow got on and had to sit in the seat across the aisle. She then removed her mask (which was not covering her nose to start with) and proceeded to drink a takeaway coffee, and having slurped her way thro' that, remained with mask round her chin and proceeded to use her mobile. You can't win.
> And the shop I went to had a lot of mothers and accompanying school-age children who, I thought, were receiving ''remote schooling'', and this was a weekday before 3pm.


There is a woman that occasionally gets on the bus I'm on who has her mask on when she boards it. She then takes a seat behind the driver before pulling her mask down for the journey before pulling it up over her face again to leave the bus!


----------



## Siskin

SbanR said:


> There is a woman that occasionally gets on the bus I'm on who has her mask on when she boards it. She then takes a seat behind the driver before pulling her mask down for the journey before pulling it up over her face again to leave the bus!


Even though it's a mean thought you hope that they get covid and finally realise how stupid they are


----------



## Blackadder

catz4m8z said:


> I think alot of people are like those 2 women TBH and trying to weasel their way around lockdown.


No weaseling involved, they stuck to the Covid regulations. What they did was far safer than spending half an hour in Tesco.



catz4m8z said:


> We dont have to like it....we just have to accept it.


We just have to accept it?  No we don't, once we stop questioning & just accept we're on a slippery slope to god knows what! We're already being told what we can do, when we can do it, who we can do it with & how long we can do it for! All of our freedoms have been stripped away & we should all just accept it without question?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Bisbow said:


> NO I do not go out to buy food, it is all delivered
> 
> OH takes Chilli out very early and locally, not a car ride away
> 
> I have not been out formonths


I`m glad you have got yourself sorted sadly not every body has got someone to walk their dog or have food delivered. I am fortunate that I haven`t had to step inside a supermarket since the beginning of March but that is only because I have someone who goes for me. I do however have to use the little local shop probably once maybe twice a week.


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> Even though it's a mean thought you hope that they get covid and finally realise how stupid they are


It'll never happen. Just like the careless/reckless drivers who crash their cars but walk away unharmed while the innocent party ends up with life changing injuries or even lose their life.


----------



## StormyThai

Blackadder said:


> We're already being told what we can do, when we can do it, who we can do it with & how long we can do it for!


In fairness the only reason that we have been told is because many couldn't self moderate.
The amount of faecal matter found on touch screens shows that most can't even wash their hands without being told to.

Even with the rules many still find a away to use a "loop hole" due to selfish justifications.


----------



## Arny

When I saw the news I thought it was ridiculous to be fined for going 5 miles to an open space but reading here maybe in the minority.
Derbyshire police have done some odd things throughout this.
I don't live within 5 miles of a supermarket should I just use the tiny corner shop?
I am however lucky enough to have many countryside walks on my doorstep but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to drive here to take advantage of the area (I again am in the minority of this view judging by my local fb group).
A lot of these people are working from home and finding it difficult to get the motivation with having their office and home life all in one.


----------



## Blackadder

StormyThai said:


> In fairness the only reason that we have been told is because many couldn't self moderate.
> The amount of faecal matter found on touch screens shows that most can't even wash their hands without being told to.
> 
> Even with the rules many still find a away to use a "loop hole" due to selfish justifications.


No idea about the first point but.... it's not a "loophole"! Either the regulations were badly drafted or some situations weren't deemed relevant/important/necessary.

All we can do is follow the law as written, which I do BTW


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> Pretty sure we aren't getting the full story here. They didn't look like they were dressed for much exercise, maybe they always put on full make-up and posh clothes to go for exercise, who knows.
> 
> But I do have a question. If there were two of them, who took the photograph of them that has been on the news stories?


These pictures would have been staged for the newspaper.


----------



## catz4m8z

Blackadder said:


> once we stop questioning & just accept we're on a slippery slope to god knows what!


The 'god knows what' you are thinking of in this situation is either yourself or someone you love on a ventilator or in a grave.

The government is telling you what to do to protect public safety...this is why we have governments, to look after the populace as a whole.

Personally Im fed up of people screaming about their human rights and personal freedoms because somebody tells them they cant go out for a coffee with friends for a few weeks. In this country you can protest whatever you want, complain about whoever you want, marry whoever you want. You wont be thrown in jail or killed for your religious, personal or political beliefs. Engaging in a lockdown for public safety will not create a slippery slope whereby you wake up tomorrow and those basic human rights will be gone.
Implying otherwise is childish and dangerous....


----------



## Bisbow

catz4m8z said:


> The 'god knows what' you are thinking of in this situation is either yourself or someone you love on a ventilator or in a grave.
> 
> The government is telling you what to do to protect public safety...this is why we have governments, to look after the populace as a whole.
> 
> Personally Im fed up of people screaming about their human rights and personal freedoms because somebody tells them they cant go out for a coffee with friends for a few weeks. In this country you can protest whatever you want, complain about whoever you want, marry whoever you want. You wont be thrown in jail or killed for your religious, personal or political beliefs. Engaging in a lockdown for public safety will not create a slippery slope whereby you wake up tomorrow and those basic human rights will be gone.
> Implying otherwise is childish and dangerous....


Nice to see someone telling it as it is
Thank you


----------



## Happy Paws2

I think some people are starting to get selfish and just think of themselves, they think if they haven't it by now they won't get it at all, how misguided they are.


----------



## Nonnie

I do wish they would introduce strict measures about how far people can travel for exercise. Ideally with no one allowed to travel by car unless for medical reasons, and even then only a short distance. 

My area is invaded at the weekends by people from miles around. There are those travelling from London, Crawley, Kent and even further. Mainly for mountain biking, but we are getting their families coming with them now as they have nothing else to do, and the amounts of people is just stupid. 

I feel for those that live in towns and cities, but its not forever. Plus we have never had so much entertainment available to use within our homes as we have now. Read a book, watch a film, follow a Youtube exercise video, but stop invading the countryside.


----------



## tabelmabel

Arny said:


> I don't live within 5 miles of a supermarket should I just use the tiny corner shop?


Yes.

Knowing that you live far from a supermarket, why didnt you have the foresight to get some basics in back in November, when this lockdown was strongly indicated?

I dont mean you should have panic bought and cleared the shelves. Just a few sensible extras onto each shop means that you can sustain through a lockdown from the corner shop.

This is nothing personal against you. I am just responding to your question. Im sure it was meant to be rhetorical like 'what do you expect me to do, my nearest big shop is miles away. I must go there'

But, with a bit of commonsense, online shopping, foresight and canny shopping, yes it can be done.

Just a few sensible provisions like rice, stock, tins can be made into so many dishes to see you through.

As i said, i dont know your situation and this is not an attack on you. I know lots of people cant afford to buy multiple store cupboard staples, many dont drive and cannot bring back more than a couple of bag fulls at a time.

I am not as hard hearted as my opinions here make me out to be. I just think a lot of us could be doing a lot more. Bit of imagination in the kitchen and sorting out needs and wants could help many of us.

As for your view @Blackadder - i do have some sympathy for that too and am very concerned about the fall out of all these lockdowns on the economy, jobs, mental health. All of it. We always need people to protest against policies and issues and question things.

However, the fact is the government has decided on this life saving mission and it is up to us now to pull together and get it working. The way this is going with people just deciding they can exercise their human rights, it isnt even getting a chance to work.

Talking of exercise, since lockdown (the march one) everyone seems to have taken it up. Whereas previously, we had a nation of couch potatoes.

Kids that previously sat on computer screens are now packing out playparks.

Parks were empty before. Even in high summer. Now it is baltic and they are rammed.

I


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Arny said:


> When I saw the news I thought it was ridiculous to be fined for going 5 miles to an open space but reading here maybe in the minority.
> Derbyshire police have done some odd things throughout this.
> I don't live within 5 miles of a supermarket should I just use the tiny corner shop?
> I am however lucky enough to have many countryside walks on my doorstep but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to drive here to take advantage of the area (I again am in the minority of this view judging by my local fb group).
> A lot of these people are working from home and finding it difficult to get the motivation with having their office and home life all in one.


 When I saw the the news I knew within hours there would be another headline announcing following guidance they would be reviewing any fines handed out! I`m like you and having to travel seven miles to local supermarket, bank etc over many years means I consider it local, in fact when I saw ` local park, pub hospital, shops ......` I mean those in town seven miles away.


----------



## Siskin

We did what you did @tabelmabel and stocked up with store cupboard items during nov/dec on our delivery orders, just a bit extra each time. Also bought Christmas stuff early so that all that was needed close to the day was the turkey and a bit of fresh stuff all of which arrived. I guess it's due to having plenty of time on my hands and nothing much else to do

Also agree with the government telling us what we can and cannot do, this time he is saying stay at home whereas in previous lockdowns it's been more of a case of it's advisable to stay at home. It needs to be said this way because so many think it doesn't matter that much and then of course there are the human rights bleaters who think being told to stay in is impinging on their right to do what they want at any time they want without a care for anyone else and it's all a plot to steal your souls or something equality childish. I just want to scream at them to grow up and stop being so pathetic


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Nonnie said:


> I do wish they would introduce strict measures about how far people can travel for exercise. Ideally with no one allowed to travel by car unless for medical reasons, and even then only a short distance.


How would anyone get to work if only allowed to travel by car for medical reasons.


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> These pictures would have been staged for the newspaper.


So mixing with a journalist? That's alright then....


----------



## Nonnie

3dogs2cats said:


> How would anyone get to work if only allowed to travel by car for medical reasons.


I said for exercise. I didnt state for any other reason.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> Yes.
> Knowing that you live far from a supermarket, why didnt you have the foresight to get some basics in back in November, when this lockdown was strongly indicated?
> I dont mean you should have panic bought and cleared the shelves. Just a few sensible extras onto each shop means that you can sustain through a lockdown from the corner shop.
> This is nothing personal against you. I am just responding to your question. Im sure it was meant to be rhetorical like 'what do you expect me to do, my nearest big shop is miles away. I must go there'
> But, with a bit of commonsense, online shopping, foresight and canny shopping, yes it can be done.
> Just a few sensible provisions like rice, stock, tins can be made into so many dishes to see you through.
> As i said, i dont know your situation and this is not an attack on you. I know lots of people cant afford to buy multiple store cupboard staples, many dont drive and cannot bring back more than a couple of bag fulls at a time.
> I am not as hard hearted as my opinions here make me out to be. I just think a lot of us could be doing a lot more. Bit of imagination in the kitchen and sorting out needs and wants could help many of us.


It was rhetorical but I'll reply 
I've never used this corner shop in my life. It would take me longer to walk there then it would for us to get in a car and drive to the 'local' supermarket.
As @3dogs2cats says I hardly think the 8 miles to my town centre is not local.
Its not like I'm in the middle of nowhere either, just semi rural and on the side of the village that's closer to town.

My mum is still working her one day a week in the town, she sits in an office on her own and so goes shopping after that.
I myself only leave the house to walk the dog. 
I used to go shopping with my mum on a day she wasn't working, now combined with her workday to reduced trips out, and I haven't stepped foot in a supermarket since they asked only one person from each household go during the first lockdown.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> But, with a bit of commonsense, online shopping,


We won't online shop. None of us are vulnerable. 
It was hard enough getting slots for my 96 year old grandpa, we won't take places away from those that really need it.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Nonnie said:


> I do wish they would introduce strict measures about how far people can travel for exercise.* Ideally with no one allowed to travel by car unless for medical reasons, and even then only a short distance. *
> 
> My area is invaded at the weekends by people from miles around. There are those travelling from London, Crawley, Kent and even further. Mainly for mountain biking, but we are getting their families coming with them now as they have nothing else to do, and the amounts of people is just stupid.
> 
> I feel for those that live in towns and cities, but its not forever. Plus we have never had so much entertainment available to use within our homes as we have now. Read a book, watch a film, follow a Youtube exercise video, but stop invading the countryside.





Nonnie said:


> I said for exercise. I didnt state for any other reason.


I took the bit I have bolded to mean you thought it would ideal if no one was allowed to travel by car unless for medical reasons, hence asking how people would get to work. Sorry I have obviously read it wrong, you meant having a medical reason for needing to travel by car for exercise?


----------



## Nonnie

3dogs2cats said:


> I took the bit I have bolded to mean you thought it would ideal if no one was allowed to travel by car unless for medical reasons, hence asking how people would get to work. Sorry I have obviously read it wrong, you meant having a medical reason for needing to travel by car for exercise?


Exactly.

Walk, run or cycle from your front door.

Elderly, disabled, or medically vulnerable should be allowed to drive a short distance to an accessible area.

I also think we need to be stricter about masks. Far too many 'exempt' persons.


----------



## Arny

3dogs2cats said:


> When I saw the the news I knew within hours there would be another headline announcing following guidance they would be reviewing any fines handed out! I`m like you and having to travel seven miles to local supermarket, bank etc over many years means I consider it local, in fact when I saw ` local park, pub hospital, shops ......` I mean those in town seven miles away.


Exactly, that town that is within our home address is now deemed some far away land.
In our village we have a pub, that's it and the council sneakily took the first lockdown to scrap the bus but people did manage to get it back several months later.


----------



## Blackadder

catz4m8z said:


> The 'god knows what' you are thinking of in this situation is either yourself or someone you love on a ventilator or in a grave.
> 
> The government is telling you what to do to protect public safety...this is why we have governments, to look after the populace as a whole.
> 
> Personally Im fed up of people screaming about their human rights and personal freedoms because somebody tells them they cant go out for a coffee with friends for a few weeks. In this country you can protest whatever you want, complain about whoever you want, marry whoever you want. You wont be thrown in jail or killed for your religious, personal or political beliefs. Engaging in a lockdown for public safety will not create a slippery slope whereby you wake up tomorrow and those basic human rights will be gone.
> Implying otherwise is childish and dangerous....


Ok, in case you missed it I said that just accepting all without question was wrong! It's our right/duty to question, the government serves the public but is it right? Is there any proof/evidence that lockdowns work? If they do then let the Gov give us the details, it's not hard! Make the case!!! They haven't yet after 3 (or is it 4,5,6) lockdowns!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Arny said:


> We won't online shop. None of us are vulnerable.
> It was hard enough getting slots for my 96 year old grandpa, we won't take places away from those that really need it.


Same here, dont shop online for a number of reasons, my husband shops for us once every two weeks, I go to the local shop to get Mums milk, bread and if needed cat food. The supermarket ( very small compared to bigger towns) is 7 miles away in my original home town and certainly what I consider local!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Nonnie said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Walk, run or cycle from your front door.
> 
> Elderly, disabled, or medically vulnerable should be allowed to drive a short distance to an accessible area.
> 
> I also think we need to be stricter about masks. Far too many 'exempt' persons.


But what if like me and my OH who are living with his elderly parents? We have been so careful to steer clear of other people because his mum is diabetic, overweight as well as old. Its more risky walking the local streets than it is going to a nature reserve which is 10 mins away and quiet.

Though I draw the line at londoners travelling miles and miles to go to the countryside. They have places like Richmond Park which would still be nice place to stretch your legs.

Theres beautiful countryside near here like the New Forest that we won't go to because thats Hampshire, even though its only 30 mins away


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> The 'god knows what' you are thinking of in this situation is either yourself or someone you love on a ventilator or in a grave.
> 
> The government is telling you what to do to protect public safety...this is why we have governments, to look after the populace as a whole.


The government is wrong in my case.



tabelmabel said:


> , why didnt you have the foresight to get some basics in back in November, when this lockdown was strongly indicated?


You do realise that some people only have money to survive week to week and that that number is growing every single day?

I'm afraid I'm breaking most of the rules but am doing that to keep myself,my friend and everyone else safe.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Shopping online is a nightmare. I do it for my mum up north and the closest home delivery is a month away, I regularly check on the site for slots but they go just like that because healthy people who can go into shops are booking all the spaces


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I'm afraid I'm breaking most of the rules but am doing that to keep myself,my friend and everyone else safe.


How can you be breaking the rules if you are keeping everyone safe?


----------



## MollySmith

HarlequinCat said:


> But what if like me and my OH who are living with his elderly parents? We have been so careful to steer clear of other people because his mum is diabetic, overweight as well as old. Its more risky walking the local streets than it is going to a nature reserve which is 10 mins away and quiet.
> 
> Though I draw the line at londoners travelling miles and miles to go to the countryside. They have places like Richmond Park which would still be nice place to stretch your legs.
> 
> Theres beautiful countryside near here like the New Forest that we won't go to because thats Hampshire, even though its only 30 mins away


Bit late to all this but that's where rules presumably have to be enforced because people do take the piss or lack common sense.

My county is huge so I could go miles, but my local authority - our city - is very small so all our off lead walks with Molly are out of bounds as I understand it and the council don't allow dogs off lead in most parks. It does mean we have struggled, like you and your OH. I share your frustration. I'd be safer if I booked an off lead field which I may well do when the weather is better though it's 4 miles away and in the next local authority area - which I do travel too because it's where the farm shop is (otherwise I'd be crowding into supermarkets) and it's so much safer to shop there and we can't get online slots - I rarely use supermarkets anyway. In short, our small city would be impossible if we only stayed in the city council boundaries.

So I guess it's common sense but it seems to be in very short supply, possibly outweighed by selfishness and stupidity.


----------



## Siskin

Blackadder said:


> Ok, in case you missed it I said that just accepting all without question was wrong! It's our right/duty to question, the government serves the public but is it right? Is there any proof/evidence that lockdowns work? If they do then let the Gov give us the details, it's not hard! Make the case!!! They haven't yet after 3 (or is it 4,5,6) lockdowns!


Well presumably lockdowns do work as the new cases of the virus go down, can't think of any other reason why they should go down during a lockdown.


----------



## mrs phas

HarlequinCat said:


> Shopping online is a nightmare. I do it for my mum up north and the closest home delivery is a month away, I regularly check on the site for slots but they go just like that because healthy people who can go into shops are booking all the spaces


That's a very sweeping and unfair statement 
Many people who 'look ok' may be shielding on behalf of others 
Or 
Have a hidden disability 
Or 
You may be right,
But 
It's not for you, nor anyone else to 'shame' them, for doing so 
They are doing nothing wrong, or immoral, in fact they are complying with the government's newest advice to 
Treat yourself like you have covid 
And 
Stay home 
The last bit being the most important


----------



## Nonnie

HarlequinCat said:


> But what if like me and my OH who are living with his elderly parents? We have been so careful to steer clear of other people because his mum is diabetic, overweight as well as old. Its more risky walking the local streets than it is going to a nature reserve which is 10 mins away and quiet.
> 
> Though I draw the line at londoners travelling miles and miles to go to the countryside. They have places like Richmond Park which would still be nice place to stretch your legs.
> 
> Theres beautiful countryside near here like the New Forest that we won't go to because thats Hampshire, even though its only 30 mins away


You could argue that in those cases, where you live with someone who is in a high risk category, that you shoudlnt go out for anything other than absolute essentials. A walk not being one.

There are loads of people who havent left their homes on months. Many of those live alone.

If this situation carries on as it is, i wonder when will be the next time they can go outside and see people?


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> The government is wrong in my case.
> 
> You do realise that some people only have money to survive week to week and that that number is growing every single day?
> 
> I'm afraid I'm breaking most of the rules but am doing that to keep myself,my friend and everyone else safe.


And space to store food too, the means to get it (I cycle as much as I can) and shops need the stock, our local shops don't have masses of stuff unlike supermarkets. I detest stockpiling, it makes it so hard for folk who really are hand to mouth. As you say rona, that figure is growing every day,


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> How can you be breaking the rules if you are keeping everyone safe?


We are shopping Click and collect, even though neither of us is vulnerable..........however my friend who we also shop for is extremely vulnerable

I drive 8 miles to care for him. This is allowed because there is no one else available, they are all too busy with idiots who keep mixing.

I then exercise his dog, I travel up to 6 miles to exercise him, never being more than 10 miles from my own home.
If I walked him from his home. I would be bumping into endless people with their sweet "friendly" darling dogs, who they then have to come close to retrieve, also he's not friendly, and although I can hold him for one a two stressed meets, I'm not sure I'd be able to after 20-30 times, after all, I'm getting old too.

I do not shop, I do not meet anyone but my sick friend and I stay as far away from everyone as I can.
If I'm breaking the rules, and I think I am in most peoples opinions on here, well tough, I will continue to do so as it keeps everyone safe


----------



## HarlequinCat

Nonnie said:


> You could argue that in those cases, where you live with someone who is in a high risk category, that you shoudlnt go out for anything other than absolute essentials. A walk not being one.
> 
> There are loads of people who havent left their homes on months. Many of those live alone.
> 
> If this situation carries on as it is, i wonder when will be the next time they can go outside and see people?


Nah, we can't do that, for one we have to get click and collect. Theres no home delivery slots.

For 2 before this lockdown, I had been struggling mentally going anywhere. Just going down the road I would have panic attacks. I couldn't even make it to the shops for food. I gradually improved and I got to a point I could travel a couple of hrs without breaking down and begging to go home. I have to go out even just 10 mins down the road because I can't go back to that! I wasn't living at all!

We make sure to keep at least 4m away from anyone. My OH bought these face masks way before they were told to keep them only for healthcare workers that filter out coronavirus. We even wear them for click and collect. We sanitise anything and everything that comes into the house.
You can have people who stay in and never go out who don't sanitise post or shopping. Thats a risk.
We do everything to keep his parents safe. It doesn't help his dad had to have a hip op recently and had to go in for a check up. But again soon as he was back home we washed his clothes. His parents go for walks too! But again they keep well away from anyone. They cannot hack being locked away 24/7 and no one should. As long as they take the right precautions


----------



## HarlequinCat

I know that @Nonnie my mum back at home hasn't been out at all. She can't. She is sad, depressed and lonely and I can't get there to help her


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> We are shopping Click and collect, even though neither of us is vulnerable..........however my friend who we also shop for is extremely vulnerable
> 
> I drive 8 miles to care for him. This is allowed because there is no one else available, they are all too busy with idiots who keep mixing.
> 
> I then exercise his dog, I travel up to 6 miles to exercise him, never being more than 10 miles from my own home.
> If I walked him from his home. I would be bumping into endless people with their sweet "friendly" darling dogs, who they then have to come close to retrieve, also he's not friendly, and although I can hold him for one a two stressed meets, I'm not sure I'd be able to after 20-30 times, after all, I'm getting old too.
> 
> I do not shop, I do not meet anyone but my sick friend and I stay as far away from everyone as I can.
> If I'm breaking the rules, and I think I am in most peoples opinions on here, well tough, I will continue to do so as it keeps everyone safe


There is nothing wrong with you doing click and collect. And care is allowable.


----------



## tabelmabel

Arny said:


> We won't online shop. None of us are vulnerable.


Fair enough. I don't know you or your situation. I dont online shop either (usually im an aldi shopper ) my friend had mentioned that there were tons of online slots back in nov and dec in my area so that could be an option for a non driver for some people maybe.

It's up to everyone to do the very best they can for the situation they are in. Your 96 yr old grandpa is doing well managing at home with online shopping.

I expect you are older than me if your grandpa is as old as that so do take care of yourself too - you could be more vulnerable than you think.

No hard feelings, was nothing personal.


----------



## Blackadder

Siskin said:


> Well presumably lockdowns do work as the new cases of the virus go down, can't think of any other reason why they should go down during a lockdown.


But lockdowns don't work if you go by the latest official figures.... most of the country has been in some form of lockdown for months & where are we?


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> You do realise that some people only have money to survive week to week and that that number is growing every single day?


Yes i do. I did refer to that in my original post. But people keeping cars on the road should manage to get some staples set aside. Tinned tomatoes, cheap rice, tinned lentils and such like should be manageable for at least some of those that can afford to run a car.

I am totally aware of the current levels of poverty and know that many are living day to day.

As long as we are all doing the best we can, that's all anyone can ask.


----------



## Siskin

Blackadder said:


> But lockdowns don't work if you go by the latest official figures.... most of the country has been in some form of lockdown for months & where are we?


It went down during and after the November lockdown only to shoot up again in the last few weeks of December hence the change in allowing mixing over Christmas. It takes time for the infection rate to reduce when a lockdown starts as the virus takes between 5 and 7 days to start, add on time taken for people to realise they have the infection and get a test done and the result, more days have passed. Add to that that the daily figure is not always exactly the total of infections that day, some are reported late for various reasons. Consequently the reduction in numbers only start to be seen about 3 weeks or so in and they do reduce.
The infection rate reduction wasn't noticeable to the lay person during the first lockdown as figures weren't published in the same way as they are now, but you only have to look at the graphs being shown since the second lockdown to see the rate reducing as lockdown continues.

Lockdowns do work by preventing everyone from mixing and spreading the virus, it must do, how else is the virus spreading otherwise


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> It's up to everyone to do the very best they can for the situation they are in. Your 96 yr old grandpa is doing well managing at home with online shopping.
> 
> I expect you are older than me if your grandpa is as old as that so do take care of yourself too - you could be more vulnerable than you think.


Sadly he passed away in Nov., was heart failure basically but before the first lockdown he was walking to the shops and getting the bus back.
My dad would do larger shops for him in normal times when he visited but obviously everything had to be organised for online as we don't live close.
I'm in my 20s with no underlying health conditions that I'm aware of so I should probably go out instead of my mum but seems silly for someone to drive me in as I don't like drive at all.


tabelmabel said:


> No hard feelings, was nothing personal.


Not at all  Think this just shows just how people can interpret things differently.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> It went down during and after the November lockdown only to shoot up again in the last few weeks of December hence the change in allowing mixing over Christmas. It takes time for the infection rate to reduce when a lockdown starts as the virus takes between 5 and 7 days to start, add on time taken for people to realise they have the infection and get a test done and the result, more days have passed. Add to that that the daily figure is not always exactly the total of infections that day, some are reported late for various reasons. Consequently the reduction in numbers only start to be seen about 3 weeks or so in and they do reduce.
> The infection rate reduction wasn't noticeable to the lay person during the first lockdown as figures weren't published in the same way as they are now, but you only have to look at the graphs being shown since the second lockdown to see the rate reducing as lockdown continues.
> 
> Lockdowns do work by preventing everyone from mixing and spreading the virus, it must do, how else is the virus spreading otherwise


I like to hope for most sensible folk, they behave as they did in March - we've pretty much carried on as then unless we've had a bloody good reason (chimney sweep, broken shower!) and even then, if one of us says they're very uncomfortable, then we don't do it. I feel that's rare so lockdown has to be instigated.

It's helped our city as we have so many tourists and live near two hotels that are often fully booked despite the pandemic even though we've no graduation ceremonies or events happening here. Reducing visitors by having a lockdown should help. We have yet to see the impact yet - for all the reasons you say - but it helped in March. I personally feel safer with lockdown.


----------



## tabelmabel

Sorry to hear that @Arny - he was a grand old man at that age.


----------



## Blackadder

Siskin said:


> Lockdowns do work by preventing everyone from mixing and spreading the virus, it must do, how else is the virus spreading otherwise


It's spreading because we can't stop it! Nurses go to work, Police go to work, shop workers go to work etc etc & then all go home having been (possibly) infected by someone they dealt with & passing it on. With this new, more virulent, mutation of the virus even slowing it down is becoming impossible!


----------



## rona

There were about 50 cars in the local garden center, how mad is that?


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. I live in Andalucia and am allowed anywhere in the province, potentially I could drive for 6 hours. Not allowed to cross the border into Murcia, which is only 45mins away. 

During the lockdown I was only supposed to stay within local municipality, which for some people meant travelling *further* to the shops than if they went to a different municipality. 

I’m still not going out apart from supermarket and medical. Except I do need an MOT for my neighbour’s car in a couple of weeks.


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> There were about 50 cars in the local garden center, how mad is that?


I was saying to OH its barmy they've kept the garden centres open. Thats one place I wouldnt class as essential!


----------



## StormyThai

Blackadder said:


> It's spreading because we can't stop it! Nurses go to work, Police go to work, shop workers go to work etc etc & then all go home having been (possibly) infected by someone they dealt with & passing it on. With this new, more virulent, mutation of the virus even slowing it down is becoming impossible!


Lockdowns have never been about stopping the virus. The problem with viruses is they are so good at what they do.
Lockdown has always been about reducing the spread so that the NHS can cope with people being admitted until we get enough people vaccinated.

The first lockdown helped to achieve this, but then schools were opened, more people started to move about and gather in groups so the infection rate then increased.
At the moment we will continue to see a rise because of people mixing at Christmas.

If you look at the data it is pretty clear to see the rise and dips as we closed and then reopened the country.
The virus spreads because people are moving it about and coming in contact with people, stop moving about, vaccinate the population then the virus is controlled and then we can start to move about again.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> Sorry to hear that @Arny - he was a grand old man at that age.


Thank you. That he was! It was a very quick illness which is what he would have wanted too.
He hated the fact he was struggling to walk after the first lockdown so if he'd have been left in a worse state don't know how he would of coped.
Mostly sad that the virus prevents the wider family from visiting their relatives at times of illness/on death bed.


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> I was saying to OH its barmy they've kept the garden centres open. Thats one place I wouldnt class as essential!


On another note, the local surgery looked busy giving vacs


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> In Spain. I live in Andalucia and am allowed anywhere in the province, potentially I could drive for 6 hours. Not allowed to cross the border into Murcia, which is only 45mins away.
> 
> During the lockdown I was only supposed to stay within local municipality, which for some people meant travelling *further* to the shops than if they went to a different municipality.
> 
> I'm still not going out apart from supermarket and medical. Except I do need an MOT for my neighbour's car in a couple of weeks.


Off topic I know but wondered if the reports of Spain suffering freezing temperatures of -36 degrees was causing you any problems. It must be unbearably cold.


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> Off topic I know but wondered if the reports of Spain suffering freezing temperatures of -36 degrees was causing you any problems. It must be unbearably cold.


Thankfully we've only had the tail end of the storm. We got a lot of rain and sopping wet cats. It was -15 in a town 30mins drive away but here it didn't drop below +2. Amazes me that the weather can be so different within such a small area! That same town gets +45 in the summer and my friends have cave houses. I find caves too dark, too mole-like.


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> Thankfully we've only had the tail end of the storm. We got a lot of rain and sopping wet cats. It was -15 in a town 30mins drive away but here it didn't drop below +2. Amazes me that the weather can be so different within such a small area! That same town gets +45 in the summer and my friends have cave houses. I find caves too dark, too mole-like.


I used to have an email friend who lived near, is it Granada?? She lived in a cave in one of the mountains. Quite remote. Very poor internet unsurprisingly.
She had it all done out with modern stuff and was very cool in summer.
She adopted a couple of donkeys:Happy.

Anyway, glad you're not affected too much, and hope it stays that way. xx


----------



## mrs phas

HarlequinCat said:


> I was saying to OH its barmy they've kept the garden centres open. Thats one place I wouldnt class as essential!


They were viewed as essential for people's good MH after the first lockdown 
Also gets people out in fresh air, with a purpose, but safe in their own space 
Not being much of a gardener, more of a planter, I don't know what can be bring done right now, other than landscaping


----------



## mrs phas

How fickle is the GBP?
This time last year (give or take) Boris and the scientists (shutdown supergroup?) were talking about herd immunity, estimated loss of life, approx 40,000
People were in uproar

Today it was announced that UK had passed the 80,000 deaths mark 
Double what Boris and the scientists predicted through herd immunity alone
Yet people are still going out, crowding in streets and shops, coming up with a myriad of excuses for not wearing masks etc
Not a whisper has been made in regard to that death toll


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> How fickle is the GBP?
> This time last year (give or take) Boris and the scientists (shutdown supergroup?) were talking about herd immunity, estimated loss of life, approx 40,000
> People were in uproar
> 
> Today it was announced that UK had passed the 80,000 deaths mark
> Double what Boris and the scientists predicted through herd immunity alone
> Yet people are still going out, crowding in streets and shops, coming up with a myriad of excuses for not wearing masks etc
> Not a whisper has been made in regard to that death toll


It's not everyone's reading preference but I thought this article by Polly Toynbee makes a good case for remembering people not figures. Regardless of whether one thinks the current government have done alright or appallingly badly (I expect you and I agree - though it is unprecedented for any government), the figures aren't names and whilst the link contains another to the stories of the dead, I do wonder if we've become immune to who they are - I say we in the wide sense, as it strikes me we've almost all had someone close to us affected on this thread. I think about 9/11 and the names which are read out and how stories have been told by survivors of horrendous historical events and it brings an identify to them and other victims. I can't quite believe that anyone breaching rules doesn't know anyone who hasn't been infected but maybe they don't or think it's mythical/conspiracy/god knows (thankfully I don't think like them)

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...deaths-incompetence-coronavirus-boris-johnson


----------



## Jaf

Cully said:


> I used to have an email friend who lived near, is it Granada?? She lived in a cave in one of the mountains. Quite remote. Very poor internet unsurprisingly.
> She had it all done out with modern stuff and was very cool in summer.
> She adopted a couple of donkeys:Happy.
> 
> Anyway, glad you're not affected too much, and hope it stays that way. xx


Thank you!

Yes Granada's famous for cave houses and is the area my friend's in. Thing is the weather is so extreme there that you can't leave the cave in summer or winter.

I'd love a donkey or 6. Such funny critters. Until recently a man in the village used to park his donkey by the pub. Xx


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> There were about 50 cars in the local garden center, how mad is that?


 Shouldn't the garden centres be closed. They were in the last lockdown.


----------



## willa

kimthecat said:


> Shouldn't the garden centres be closed. They were in the last lockdown.


Apparently are classed as essential, as they sell animal food .


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Shouldn't the garden centres be closed. They were in the last lockdown.


It's nothing to do with animal feed

They were viewed as essential for people's good MH after the first lockdown
Also gets people out in fresh air, with a purpose, but safe in their own space
Not being much of a gardener, more of a planter, I don't know what can be being done right now, other than landscaping


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> It's nothing to do with animal feed
> 
> They were viewed as essential for people's good MH after the first lockdown
> Also gets people out in fresh air, with a purpose, but safe in their own space
> Not being much of a gardener, more of a planter, I don't know what can be being done right now, other than landscaping


Huh? Most around here have more indoor space than out


----------



## rona

Just read that Vaccine is on it's way to Gibraltar


----------



## Cully

Jaf said:


> Thank you!
> I'd love a donkey or 6. Such funny critters. Until recently a man in the village used to park his donkey by the pub. Xx


Park it! Like in the old cowboy films. I'd like to see a traffic warden stick a parking ticket on it:Hilarious.
I'd love a few goats. Sadly I don't think a flat is a suitable environment for them.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> In Spain. I live in Andalucia and am allowed anywhere in the province, potentially I could drive for 6 hours. Not allowed to cross the border into Murcia, which is only 45mins away.
> 
> During the lockdown I was only supposed to stay within local municipality, which for some people meant travelling *further* to the shops than if they went to a different municipality.
> 
> I'm still not going out apart from supermarket and medical. Except I do need an MOT for my neighbour's car in a couple of weeks.


We've been in a strict lockdown since the beginning of November and were told earlier this week that it will continue until February 1st, There are no restrictions on how far you can travel or visiting elderly relatives. Although education for older students is online, schools for the younger ones are still open. The main difference I think is, that mask wearing is mandatory and strictly enforced, as is the number of people deemed to constitute a crowd (both indoors and outside)

As a result our new infection rate has halved and at long last so has the death rate. Healthcare workers and the elderly in care homes are being vaccinated but the rate of doing so is held back mainly due to the EU being slow to dispatch vaccines throughout the EU countries.


----------



## Lurcherlad

It's sad that those of us who were able to exist within the social distancing guidelines, wearing masks and cleaning hands, without risking ourselves or others have to be restricted now but that's life, unfortunately.

We've always worked on the premise that "everyone out there is infected" so have been very careful not to risk ourselves, thereby not risking others.

Before Tier 5 we would drive to walk in places that weren't mobbed and get takeaway food and drink from a cafe to help them stay afloat. Now, it seems we can't do that.


rona said:


> Huh? Most around here have more indoor space than out


Again, it could be ok if common sense is applied.

If garden centres are letting crowds in, then it's not going to work and could be spreading the virus.


----------



## Calvine

SbanR said:


> There is a woman that occasionally gets on the bus I'm on who has her mask on when she boards it. She then takes a seat behind the driver before pulling her mask down for the journey before pulling it up over her face again to leave the bus!


 . . . and talking of the seat behind the driver. The buses here sellotape huge red signs across four - sometimes six- seats behind the driver; ''Please Give Our Drivers Some Space'' or something along those lines. I saw someone get into a bus with several seats free and plonk her fat arse fair and square on the red sign; you really could not make this up, could you!


----------



## SbanR

Calvine said:


> . . . and talking of the seat behind the driver. The buses here sellotape huge red signs across four - sometimes six- seats behind the driver; ''Please Give Our Drivers Some Space'' or something along those lines. I saw someone get into a bus with several seats free and plonk her fat arse fair and square on the red sign; you really could not make this up, could you!


Sorry, its so awful I couldn't help but laugh at the mental image your description conjured up!


----------



## Calvine

Blackadder said:


> proof/evidence that lockdowns work?


No, and I think this is why people became very slack . . . ''Well, the first one didn't work, what's the point in adhering to the rules in No. 2 and No. 3?'' seems to be what people are thinking. In the first lockdown, I took a photo of Richmond Bridge in April, Saturday, midday. Normally it is swarming with people and cars; on the photo there is one bike (or one pedestrian, can't remember which). People appear to have seen that the situation has got worse despite restrictions and lockdowns, and are now just thinking it's a waste of time. I think the vaccine is the only thing that will have any effect (and then again, I read that something like 45% will take up the offer).


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> No, and I think this is why people became very slack . . . ''Well, the first one didn't work, what's the point in adhering to the rules in No. 2 and No. 3?'' seems to be what people are thinking.


But it did work 
Until the stupidity of "eat out to help out" and the reopening of pubs
People crawled out of the woodwork to take advantage of a cheap meal, totally dismissing social distancing and, of course, one can't eat/drink with a mask on
As for pubs, sorry but we all know that, the majority, on a night out, drink until they're impaired, mentally and socially, couple that with all the pubs kicking out at the stroke of 10 ( or was it 11 then?) and you have a melting pot of virus' in streets, at bus depots, train stations et al 
That's what was the turning point for the R to start to rise again


----------



## Blackadder

mrs phas said:


> But it did work


Did it, really? The end of the first lockdown coincided with summer when people are outside more, windows are open etc I've just looked at a graph that showed the infection rate was stable at a very low level from May to mid/end September when it started to rise! Winter is the time when respiratory viruses take hold, there's rarely a Flu pandemic in the summer.

When we get to spring I predict we will see a big fall in the infection rates & it won't be anything to do with lockdowns


----------



## catz4m8z

mrs phas said:


> They were viewed as essential for people's good MH after the first lockdown
> Also gets people out in fresh air, with a purpose, but safe in their own space
> Not being much of a gardener, more of a planter, I don't know what can be being done right now, other than landscaping


I think they should really shut them this time around. It kinda made sense to keep them open when people were able to get out and plant things/grow food/etc but as you cant do any of that this time of year people are just using them now as a trip out.

Lockdowns def do work though. The first one we had was very effective because people were actually sticking to the rules more. Also just look at how successful they are in countries that had much stricter lockdowns then us. 
Sadly this country seems to be full of people who cant bear to be told what to do and think they know better then scientists and professionals who have spent their lives studying this sort of thing.


----------



## Happy Paws2

It's not just the lockdown that's the problem, it's how they ease us out of it. We can't say right lockdown is over, you can go out for a meal, starting meeting friends when you like and travel where you want, we'll go right back where we started again.


----------



## rona

4 hrs out this morning, most walking, total people passed 2, and they were together.
If I'd done that from either his home or mine, it would have been getting one for the hundreds of people passed..........................

My car doesn't spread covid!


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's not just the lockdown that's the problem, it's how they ease us out of it. We can't say right lockdown is over, you can go out for a meal, starting meeting friends when you like and travel where you want, we'll go right back where we started again.


Which is what they did in july


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> Did it, really? The end of the first lockdown coincided with summer when people are outside more, windows are open etc I've just looked at a graph that showed the infection rate was stable at a very low level from May to mid/end September when it started to rise! Winter is the time when respiratory viruses take hold, there's rarely a Flu pandemic in the summer.
> 
> When we get to spring I predict we will see a big fall in the infection rates & it won't be anything to do with lockdowns


Yes, they do work. In fact, with a virus minimising/eliminating human contact is the ONLY thing that works. A virus continually needs fresh hosts to continue to exist. If it doesn't get them it dies out. But once someone has a virus, the only thing you can do is try and keep them alive long enough for their body to fight it off - if they show symptoms, and it's becoming increasingly clear that a significant percentage never show blatant symptoms.

That's why a viral pandemic is the absolute worst nightmare for epidemiologists, as social distancing and isolation is the only way to control it, and that relies on the general population adhering to the necessary restrictions - something a minority are not able to do, and an ever increasing majority are getting bolshy about.

Which brings us to another problem - as well as Covid-19 proving asymptmatic in many people, the more strictly people adhere to distancing rules, the less the virus spreads, so people start questioning whether there is a pandemic problem at all and the conspiracy theories and associated protests start.

As to flu, ironically Covid-19 social distancing and hygiene rules have led to a massive drop in flu, common cold and other respiritory infections. Which is probably a major reason why the NHS is still just about coping (though it won't for much longer if things continue as they are).

Oh, and if memory serves I think doctors have long been saying that Covid-19 would be one of those that spreads more in colder conditions, so a drop off in spring is definitely probable. It's just a question of how many people drop dead before then...


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> Which is what they did in july


Exactly, and look where we are now.


----------



## Siskin

I really cannot understand those that say lockdown doesn’t work. 

How can it not?

This is a disease that spreads with human contact.

Keep away from others so it can’t spread and eventually it dies out. Except it can’t because some people do have to mix as part of their job or are just stupid and don’t care, therefore it survives and the new variant is proof of this.

A viruses sole job in life is to reproduce itself, to do this it needs hosts, take away the hosts and it cannot survive. Reduce the hosts so that the virus struggles to survive then it needs to do something in order to carry on, so it mutates and eventually one of those mutations is more successful in infecting the hosts it can find.
This appears to be bourne out by the original version of the virus is not so prevalent as the mutated type.

The Spanish flu behaved much the same way as covid 19


----------



## Lurcherlad

Worth repeating


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> Yes, they do work. In fact, with a virus minimising/eliminating human contact is the ONLY thing that works. A virus continually needs fresh hosts to continue to exist. If it doesn't get them it dies out.


That I would agree with but we have a lockdown in name only, as I said in a previous post millions of people are working & mixing with others... contact is unavoidable.
I work for a company that's deemed "essential" & as such I deliver throughout the midlands/north west coming into contact with 10's, 20's of other people per day. I then come back to base & have to have contact with people there, when working social distancing isn't always feasible or possible. I then go home to two people who work & have mixed with others. Repeat every day!

Everyday millions can't stay at home....


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> 4 hrs out this morning, most walking, total people passed 2, and they were together.
> If I'd done that from either his home or mine, it would have been getting one for the hundreds of people passed..........................
> 
> My car doesn't spread covid!


People like you (and us) who have vulnerable people in our bubbles can manage to get out and do things whilst observing all the guidelines and causing no threat to anyone.

The dilemma for us now is that, whilst the chances of us crashing the car and adding to the NHS's load are slim, we feel we should stay home unless essential and we can exercise safely and stay local if we go out in the dark 

You are in a different situation because you need to travel to help your friend - totally acceptable and essential.

I suspect that the majority of people driving around can't say the same.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> I really cannot understand those that say lockdown doesn't work.


I think it's to do with what people's expectation is for the outcome at the end of it.
We're way past a lockdown meaning the virus will have gone by the end of it, they're now all about spreading out the deaths (edit to say shouldn't really say deaths, cases. Thankfully the experts have gotten better at treating it which does leave hospitals even more overstretched but imagine how bad things would be if they hadn't) for the hospitals to cope.

It's incredibly unfortunate the new variant came about as things were going okish before then.

As an aside I'm seeing more and more people wearing masks out and about on my walks in the countryside, particularly runners.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> That I would agree with but we have a lockdown in name only, as I said in a previous post millions of people are working & mixing with others... contact is unavoidable.
> I work for a company that's deemed "essential" & as such I deliver throughout the midlands/north west coming into contact with 10's, 20's of other people per day. I then come back to base & have to have contact with people there, when working social distancing isn't always feasible or possible. I then go home to two people who work & have mixed with others. Repeat every day!
> 
> Everyday millions can't stay at home....


No, but presumably you are taking all the necessary precautions on your rounds at least?

I've noticed that most of our delivery men have stopped wearing masks and/or gloves - though, thankfully still leaving items by the door, stepping back and doing contactless confirmations.

We spray everything, leave to stand and wash (if feasible) everything that is delivered or brought into the home.

There are still many, many people out and about who really don't need to be.


----------



## tabelmabel

What is everyone doing with their cars just now - those of us not using them? We dont have a garage so our cars are sat out frozen on the driveway. I am starting the engines every few days. I was thinking about running my car (a very old one!) down to the next motorway junction and back just to get its juices going but im not sure that is ok?

Im not going to do it today. Its far too damp and icy, i havent had the car out since early december so its sod's law it would give up on a damp day. 


I am concerned that insurance wont pay out in the event of an accident. I know that was what was said last lockdown and, knowing how insurance companies try to wriggle out of things, i can imagine if you are caught driving for a non essential reason, technically you are driving illegally and wont be insured.


Does anyone know about this for sure? 


And how are you keeping your cars engines ticking over? Is just running them on the drive enough? Im just worried my brakes might seize or something.


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> That I would agree with but we have a lockdown in name only, as I said in a previous post millions of people are working & mixing with others... contact is unavoidable.
> I work for a company that's deemed "essential" & as such I deliver throughout the midlands/north west coming into contact with 10's, 20's of other people per day. I then come back to base & have to have contact with people there, when working social distancing isn't always feasible or possible. I then go home to two people who work & have mixed with others. Repeat every day!
> 
> Everyday millions can't stay at home....


There are always going to be jobs that have to carry in even in lockdown - I also work in an essential industry. Those of us who can work from home are doing that. Where that's not possible, things have been changed to make things as safe as we possibly can. I'm working from home and going out as little as possible.

The point of lockdown is that everyone who doesn't HAVE to be out shouldn't be in order to reduce the risk to those who have no choice, and those who are out and about should be taking every precaution they can.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m no mechanic, but I think if you’re going to start the engine it needs to run a good while otherwise you’ll just drain the battery - particularly in this freezing weather.

If you run it on the drive, reversing at least a full rotation should keep the wheels, brakes, etc. from seizing, I would think?

I started the Fiat the other day on a very frosty morning to drive to the pet shop 3 miles away, but it looked like some smoke coming out of the bonnet so I quickly switched it off, hung around to make sure it wasn’t going to burst into flames and won’t touch it now until I can get the mechanic to take a look


----------



## tabelmabel

I'll try that, thanks @Lurcherlad. What i could do, legally, im just thinking is to warm it up properly on the drive and then drive for some essential shopping at sainsbury's. Sains is approx one minute's drive time from me and only 10 mins' walk so i wasnt planning on taking the car. But i could. To keep legal! So then i will have a warm engine and a few chances to test the brakes.

My car is the old one - 2008

OH's is practically new so that will be fine. I did take his down the road last night as i cook a hot meal each saturday for an old lady. Im part of the meal makers scheme so that is allowed to continue and i just hand it in at the window.

But again, that is a minute by car down the road. Although i live in a small place, everything is here to live. There isnt anything essential far enough away to even get an engine warm.

Your engine sounds a bit too warm

I hope it is ok. Cars are just more trouble than they are worth sometimes.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh I think you could take your car for a longer route to the store as you don’t want it breaking down on you if you have essential uses for it.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable or flouting the rules.

As for my car - it did that before when the alternator seized. Really hope it’s not now happened to the new one 

If so, the car is on notice!


----------



## Jobeth

tabelmabel said:


> I am concerned that insurance wont pay out in the event of an accident. I know that was what was said last lockdown and, knowing how insurance companies try to wriggle out of things, i can imagine if you are caught driving for a non essential reason, technically you are driving illegally and wont be insured.
> 
> Does anyone know about this for sure?


I contacted my car insurer (Aviva) when it was mentioned in the news a while ago about not being covered as my bubble is in a different county. They reassured me that it was fine. I'm not sure what you'd actually be doing that is illegal as you can drive to exercise, go to work, go shopping etc.


----------



## tabelmabel

Jobeth said:


> I'm not sure what you'd actually be doing that is illegal as you can drive to exercise, go to work, go shopping etc.


I think just driving down to the next junction and back would be illegal wouldnt it as i wouldnt be going out for one of the listed legal reasons.

I mean, technically, i could legally push it and drive to aldi 20 miles away which is in my local authority but that would really be taking the mick since i have sains on my doorstep.

Ironically, my nearest aldi is under 10 miles away but not in my local authority.

I think it just keeps it simpler for me if i stick to on foot where possible. That keeps me in my house or close to it. But i dont want to end up with huge bills on my seized car of course


----------



## Blackadder

tabelmabel said:


> I am concerned that insurance wont pay out in the event of an accident. I know that was what was said last lockdown and, knowing how insurance companies try to wriggle out of things, i can imagine if you are caught driving for a non essential reason, technically you are driving illegally and wont be insured.


If you have valid insurance then you are ok to drive, ignore the muppets spreading nonsense!

As for taking the car for a drive, personally I would. It's not good for a car to sit for long periods in these weather conditions.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I think just driving down to the next junction and back would be illegal wouldnt it as i wouldnt be going out for one of the listed legal reasons.
> 
> I mean, technically, i could legally push it and drive to aldi 20 miles away which is in my local authority but that would really be taking the mick since i have sains on my doorstep.
> 
> Ironically, my nearest aldi is under 10 miles away but not in my local authority.
> 
> I think it just keeps it simpler for me if i stick to on foot where possible. That keeps me in my house or close to it. But i dont want to end up with huge bills on my seized car of course


I think you're over thinking it tbh

You need to keep your car running and if you have a purse and a bag with you and are heading to a shop then I think all bases are covered 

So long as you don't decide to head off to a castle 100 miles away for an eye test, I think you're within the guidelines


----------



## MollySmith

My car was filled up in Scotland on 11th March and I got horribly nerdy about filing it up again on 11th October which I successfully did in Cambridgeshire where we live :Bag

I have use it twice since November and for a visit to my parents prior to lockdown. Seems fine. Most people on my street have not even even started theirs up.

Direct Line were in touch with me about low mileage as you claim back some insurance if you’re not using the car so so check with insurance companies as we saved a bit.


----------



## MollySmith

Sorry can't keep up with the thread but is this the article folk were referring to about Derbyshire police?
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/peterborough-family-peak-district-lockdown-19598475


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha - thanks but i think i will stick with warming on the drive and using it to go to sains - not that im going to need any essential shopping for a while.

Im very good at hunkering down and staying in. I dont get bored. I dont have any great urge to take off to my nearest beauty spot or take up running. Im a pretty resilient and resourceful person. 

And if i dont go onto the motorway, i eliminate the chances of being in a horrific accident involving emergency services.


I think i could only possibly have a very minor prang, going up to sains tbh. Im not going to be needing a hospital bed going up there in my car.



No. Im definitely a person that can and will stay at home. 

And i do have a month's worth of meals sitting here to keep me going as im on the jane plan diet just now.

The rest of us will be ok for a while as i bought some frozen meats and storecupboard staples back in november. And i can cook. Which helps.

They are having some chicken and tinned tomato concoction tonight


----------



## MollySmith

tabelmabel said:


> I think just driving down to the next junction and back would be illegal wouldnt it as i wouldnt be going out for one of the listed legal reasons.
> 
> I mean, technically, i could legally push it and drive to aldi 20 miles away which is in my local authority but that would really be taking the mick since i have sains on my doorstep.
> 
> Ironically, my nearest aldi is under 10 miles away but not in my local authority.
> 
> I think it just keeps it simpler for me if i stick to on foot where possible. That keeps me in my house or close to it. But i dont want to end up with huge bills on my seized car of course


to be honest I did posh Waitrose 4 miles away when I have Asda nearby because it felt so much safer. I agree with @Lurcherlad you're not wandering off to a long distance park!


----------



## tabelmabel

I dont think so @MollySmith - the 2 women fined had only travelled 5 miles.

I cant keep up with this thread either. Im busy on my jigsaw.


----------



## Arny

MollySmith said:


> Sorry can't keep up with the thread but is this the article folk were referring to about Derbyshire police?
> https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/peterborough-family-peak-district-lockdown-19598475


No, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-engla...Allen and Eliza Moore,look again at the issue.
Clearly Derbyshire's the place to be!


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> 've noticed that most of our delivery men have stopped wearing masks and/or gloves - though, thankfully still leaving items by the door, stepping back and doing contactless confirmations.
> 
> We spray everything, leave to stand and wash (if feasible) everything that is delivered or brought into the home.


Just out of interest what spray do you use? I've always washed/wiped my shopping in a bowl of hot soapy water with a good squidge of bleach in, but I'm never sure whether I am being too particular. After all, your shopping should be picked and packed in a covid safe way, and some of my friends say all that's needed is a wipe before putting away. I must admit I dread Wednesdays now as I'm exhausted after all the rigmarole I go through with my groceries.


----------



## tabelmabel

MollySmith said:


> Direct Line were in touch with me about low mileage as you claim back some insurance if you're not using the car so so check with insurance companies as we saved a bit.


Yes, im with direct line and got that info about claiming back but i never bothered. I dont think my car has done above 100 miles since march tbh.

OH's car is first off the drive and he has been working from home since march. I did drive a bit in his car when restrictions eased a bit in the summer but im in scotland and things never really eased much where i am. In normal times, i always drive to dog walk every day as the best places are further away.

But i wouldnt think about driving to exercise now. It just isnt necessary for me. I planned out some walks from my doorstep last lockdown. They arent fantastic but they do the job in the short term.


----------



## Boxer123

Cully said:


> Just out of interest what spray do you use? I've always washed/wiped my shopping in a bowl of hot soapy water with a good squidge of bleach in, but I'm never sure whether I am being too particular. After all, your shopping should be picked and packed in a covid safe way, and some of my friends say all that's needed is a wipe before putting away. I must admit I dread Wednesdays now as I'm exhausted after all the rigmarole I go through with my groceries.


I have some dettol spray it can be used on clothes as well. I use it everywhere.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> Just out of interest what spray do you use? I've always washed/wiped my shopping in a bowl of hot soapy water with a good squidge of bleach in, but I'm never sure whether I am being too particular. After all, your shopping should be picked and packed in a covid safe way, and some of my friends say all that's needed is a wipe before putting away. I must admit I dread Wednesdays now as I'm exhausted after all the rigmarole I go through with my groceries.


can I rep Ocean Spray? Reuse old bottles and better for the planet.
https://www.ocean-saver.com/products/antibacterial-spray-ecodrop-ocean-mist

One of the awful side effects of the pandemic to our planet is people using wipes that don't biodegrade and people slacking on refills or buying into brands that aren't very good for the planet. We can all do a bit better.... not saying that you don't, just in general to the thread


----------



## MollySmith

tabelmabel said:


> Yes, im with direct line and got that info about claiming back but i never bothered. I dont think my car has done above 100 miles since march tbh.
> 
> OH's car is first off the drive and he has been working from home since march. I did drive a bit in his car when restrictions eased a bit in the summer but im in scotland and things never really eased much where i am. In normal times, i always drive to dog walk every day as the best places are further away.
> 
> But i wouldnt think about driving to exercise now. It just isnt necessary for me. I planned out some walks from my doorstep last lockdown. They arent fantastic but they do the job in the short term.


TBF it was the equivalent of the increase between 2019/20 even though nothing has changed, as ever!


----------



## MollySmith

Arny said:


> No, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55547302#:~:text=Jessica Allen and Eliza Moore,look again at the issue.
> Clearly Derbyshire's the place to be!


Sure seems to be!


----------



## JoanneF

MollySmith said:


> using wipes that don't biodegrade


I don't know if people know about them, but there are now compostable wipes that can go in the garden/food waste bin.


----------



## Siskin

We haven’t used the motorhome for over a year. It’s been sorn’ed and is not insured and on the driveway in front of big car. My husband starts it up every now and again and leaves the engine running for about 15 minutes to get the oil warmed up and circulating everywhere. So far it’s started straight away. Big car hasn’t been used since we went to Suffolk in the summer, but will used on Tuesday when I go up to the Birmingham hospital. Husband checked unit over this afternoon and it also started first time.
Any local trips we use teeny weeny car


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> Just out of interest what spray do you use? I've always washed/wiped my shopping in a bowl of hot soapy water with a good squidge of bleach in, but I'm never sure whether I am being too particular. After all, your shopping should be picked and packed in a covid safe way, and some of my friends say all that's needed is a wipe before putting away. I must admit I dread Wednesdays now as I'm exhausted after all the rigmarole I go through with my groceries.


I just use any antibac spray.

I would think what you're doing is appropriate too.

I know what you mean about dreading the who rigmarole - it takes ages


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> Until the stupidity of "eat out to help out" and the reopening of pubs


 How right you are . . . I am not exaggerating when I say that Wagamama and another restaurant near me had queues (admittedly double-spaced) the whole day, even in the rain. Wagamama's queue went the length of about ten shops, then round a corner and along four more on the ''Eat out to help out'' days (Monday to Wednesday in August I think). I was stupefied. They were queuing from lunchtime to closing time.


----------



## Blitz

tabelmabel said:


> I'll try that, thanks @Lurcherlad. What i could do, legally, im just thinking is to warm it up properly on the drive and then drive for some essential shopping at sainsbury's. Sains is approx one minute's drive time from me and only 10 mins' walk so i wasnt planning on taking the car. But i could. To keep legal! So then i will have a warm engine and a few chances to test the brakes.
> 
> My car is the old one - 2008
> 
> OH's is practically new so that will be fine. I did take his down the road last night as i cook a hot meal each saturday for an old lady. Im part of the meal makers scheme so that is allowed to continue and i just hand it in at the window.
> 
> But again, that is a minute by car down the road. Although i live in a small place, everything is here to live. There isnt anything essential far enough away to even get an engine warm.
> 
> Your engine sounds a bit too warm
> 
> I hope it is ok. Cars are just more trouble than they are worth sometimes.


I thought you were allowed to take your car out, you have to go shopping and you are allowed to travel for exercise up to 5 miles outside your local council area in Scotland - so I thought anyway but then we are not in lockdown anyway!


----------



## MollySmith

JoanneF said:


> I don't know if people know about them, but there are now compostable wipes that can go in the garden/food waste bin.


Yes there are. Better than flush wipes which aren't tested and contribute to fatburgers - the Ethical Consumer has a big report that damms most brands for not actually testing their claims. I think better to have a washable cloth and eco friendly cleaner. We've been washing shopping in that way since March.

Cheeky Panda is a good buy. Best to avoid Method and Ecover whose parents companies score very low on the ethical scale.


----------



## tabelmabel

Blitz said:


> I thought you were allowed to take your car out, you have to go shopping and you are allowed to travel for exercise up to 5 miles outside your local council area in Scotland - so I thought anyway but then we are not in lockdown anyway!


I havent seen anything about taking your car out purely for the purposes of warming the engine up?

As for driving to exercise, as far as i know i can legally go right across the whole of perth and kinross which is massive but (i quite agree with derbyshire police) that is not 'in the spirit of the lockdown' for me.

I can walk from my home. I think the restrictions have been left looser to keep people supported to get through it.

I do understand that some people live in not such nice places and need to take advantage of that. But not me. I dont need to.

Im just an incredibly resilient person. I really think im one of those kind of folks that could be locked into my house for a full year and id manage to make do with what i have.

In situations like this, i seem to thrive actually. And the money savings from not going out at all are a huge driver for me. It helps the lockdown effort and it helps our family. Win win!

Im happy now with the car situation. To take it onto a motorway to warm it up was a crazy idea in the first place.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> Just out of interest what spray do you use? I've always washed/wiped my shopping in a bowl of hot soapy water with a good squidge of bleach in, but I'm never sure whether I am being too particular. After all, your shopping should be picked and packed in a covid safe way, and some of my friends say all that's needed is a wipe before putting away. I must admit I dread Wednesdays now as I'm exhausted after all the rigmarole I go through with my groceries.


I use Domestos wet wipes to disinfect my groceries. I leave all but one of my shopping bags at home and load my groceries loose into the boot of my car. Anything small goes into the only shopping bag I've taken with me. When I get home I wipe down each item before taking it out of my car boot and popping it into the clean bags I left behind. That way I know apart from the one bag none of the other bags are contaminated when I carry them into the house.


----------



## MollySmith

A bit more on cleaners if anyone is interested -

*Dettol* is owned by Reckitt Benckiser whose products (Cillit Bang is another) caused the deaths of many in South Korea. The heads of the company remain in charge despite this.

*Domestos* is owned by Unilever who have a terrible rating for palm oil, deforestation, animal welfare, human rights... its endless, just seen they own Pukka Herbs whose Apple tea I loved dammit so I've got to find another brand..

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/home-garden/shopping-guide/household-cleaners

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/company-profile/unilever


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> I just use any antibac spray.
> 
> I would think what you're doing is appropriate too.
> 
> I know what you mean about dreading the who rigmarole - it takes ages


Ah now that's another thing I don't understand. Antibac. 
So it kills bacteria. It says so. But does it really kill the virus too. Can it really zap both? If so it would save me a lot of unnecessary effort. I've always used Dettol antibac surface cleaner, mostly for the bathroom.
At the moment I've also got a spray bottle with a strong solution of washing up liquid and water which I use to clean, then a bottle mixed with bleach and water to kill the virus. It would be useful to be able to ditch this palaver if I can just use the Dettol spray.


----------



## Boxer123

I have read the story of the two women and it is hard to know what really happened it may be they were taking the mick who knows we only have their side. However we don’t know their circumstances. 

Living on your own can be very challenging in these circumstances. I am quiet resilient but I have been sat on my own for a year, 

It is easy to say you shouldn’t be driving but if my friends lived 5 miles away (a 10 minute drive?) I probably would travel to meet them for a walk because quite frankly I’m struggling a bit. 

As it is most live at least a 30 minute drive so we have decided it is to far and not worth the risk.


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> Im just an incredibly resilient person. I really think im one of those kind of folks that could be locked into my house for a full year and id manage to make do with what i have.


My older sister hasn't stepped out of her house since March.
While I can cope with everything else, make the most of food I've got, not use the car, actually be pleased to not see anyone. I could not cope with being shut indoors for long.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> Ah now that's another thing I don't understand. Antibac.
> So it kills bacteria. It says so. But does it really kill the virus too. Can it really zap both? If so it would save me a lot of unnecessary effort. I've always used Dettol antibac surface cleaner, mostly for the bathroom.
> At the moment I've also got a spray bottle with a strong solution of washing up liquid and water which I use to clean, then a bottle mixed with bleach and water to kill the virus. It would be useful to be able to ditch this palaver if I can just use the Dettol spray.


Tbh I can't really say, but it was one of the things advised in the beginning, same with the hand sanitiser.

With the shopping, I wipe over with a hot soapy cloth too as back up - just in case.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh I can't really say, but it was one of the things advised in the beginning, same with the hand sanitiser.
> 
> With the shopping, I wipe over with a hot soapy cloth too as back up - just in case.


I've read hot soapy water is the best for killing Covid. The washing shopping is a rigmarole I hope one day I can look back and laugh.


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> Living on your own can be very challenging in these circumstances. I am quiet resilient but I have been sat on my own for a year,
> 
> It is easy to say you shouldn't be driving but if my friends lived 5 miles away (a 10 minute drive?) I probably would travel to meet them for a walk because quite frankly I'm struggling a bit.


I quite agree @Boxer123 and, from what i understand, the restrictions have been left looser to help people stick with it. There are experts now advising this support type strategy to help people to manage to stick to things best they can.

It's all fair enough if you need to take advantage of it. I just think a lot of people out and about could be doing more to try to stay in. I might be wrong. They might all have lockdown health struggles and need to get out. In which case we have no chance of bringing these high infection rates down. More of us need to be more like me (!) to give this lockdown any chance of working.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> I quite agree @Boxer123 and, from what i understand, the restrictions have been left looser to help people stick with it. There are experts now advising this support type strategy to help people to manage to stick to things best they can.
> 
> It's all fair enough if you need to take advantage of it. I just think a lot of people out and about could be doing more to try to stay in. I might be wrong. They might all have lockdown health struggles and need to get out. In which case we have no chance of bringing these high infection rates down. More of us need to be more like me (!) to give this lockdown any chance of working.


I literally haven't been anywhere for months or met with anyone I follow the rules closely. I am lucky I have my dogs to walk. I just think it's important to remember the experience of someone living with their family will be very different to those alone. I don't think it's those going for a socially distanced walk are spreading the virus mostly I think it's people completely ignoring and going to each other's houses and socialising in large groups.


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> I just think it's important to remember the experience of someone living with their family will be very different to those alone.


Absolutely! Im really not one of these people living in la la land here. Remember i do have grown up kids whose circumstances are very different to my own. I am pretty tuned in to different circumstances, and really dont go around like the corona police at all. I just happened to notice that it is very busy round where i live, nothing like March April and I do wonder where all these folk are going and why more of them arent able to be in their houses.

I do have family members living on their own. Quite a few of them. I know it isnt easy. Everyone will have a different experience.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Huh? Most around here have more indoor space than out


They reopened her in the summer. I went to a local one I hadnt been to before and the indoor space was so massive we got lost in it and couldn't find the main entrance. I bought some nice wellies though! They have shops inside like Cotton traders and Bon marche.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> 4 hrs out this morning, most walking, total people passed 2, and they were together.
> If I'd done that from either his home or mine, it would have been getting one for the hundreds of people passed..........................
> 
> My car doesn't spread covid!


Now its winter and muddy , people walk on the paths through the fields and not on the grass and it gets crowded on them .


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Now its winter and muddy , people walk on the paths through the fields and not on the grass and it gets crowded on them .


There's a lot of farmers crops (our food) trampled by people trying to avoid the mud or other people!


----------



## kimthecat

Had disagreement with DD . She said my OH shouldnt go into local corner shop for bread and milk where it is very quiet and wear a mask and the tills have plastic for the shop keeper to sit behind. .
I said its safer to do that to go to hospital for my blood test and treatment. Whilst the seats are cleaned when they take your blood every time , the ones where you sit waiting outside are not . The toilets arent cleaned and door handle arent etc everytime they are touched. I wore gloves last time as I went in the main entrance and was told to take them off. Hand sanitisers at all points but I will be taking a lot of wipes with me next time.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> There's a lot of farmers crops (our food) trampled by people trying to avoid the mud or other people!


 Oh dear, The fields here are playing fields or parks so the grass is short and easier to walk on.


----------



## Arny

tabelmabel said:


> I just happened to notice that it is very busy round where i live, nothing like March April and I do wonder where all these folk are going and why more of them arent able to be in their houses.


You're right but I don't think its because people are ignoring lockdown per se.
I don't know if its the same for Scotland but many more places are allowed to be open here, even if you're non essential retail you can be there for click and collect.
Where I am pubs closed completely as they'd never done take away, now the majority are open for take away at least some of the week.
My dentist closed first time round but they're now still open even for routine appointments as they've set up the screens and have the necessary ppe.
Construction also pretty much stopped back then despite being a profession that definitely couldn't work from home.
I think places have learnt to adapt to save their and their employees jobs.

I won't judge whether its right or wrong but as far as I can tell the government has chosen for it not to be as strict.


----------



## catz4m8z

well,plenty of depressing pictures in the news today. People walking around the parks in London, queuing for snacks or walking along popular beaches....more people then Id generally see in my local High St pre covid!!:Wideyed
I think they may have to put a time limit on exercise again and ban people going more then a certain distance from their homes. It seems some people are still confusing necessary exercise with 'a trip out'.:Banghead


----------



## kittih

catz4m8z said:


> well,plenty of depressing pictures in the news today. People walking around the parks in London, queuing for snacks or walking along popular beaches....more people then Id generally see in my local High St pre covid!!:Wideyed
> I think they may have to put a time limit on exercise again and ban people going more then a certain distance from their homes. It seems some people are still confusing necessary exercise with 'a trip out'.:Banghead


There are a lot more people out near me than were out in the first lockdown. I wonder though whether people are feeling the need to go out for their mental well-being than they were in the first lockdown. I know personally and having spoken to friends negative effects on mental health are increasing as time goes on.

Regarding limiting the time for exercise. This was never a restriction originally, just something Gove made up. I don't see how that could be policed. Distance from home is far easier to check. Currently it is defined as local area in England which my local council is defining as village town or city area. However I am personally a bit ambivalent about specifying a particular distance as depending on how rural or otherwise you are depends on how far you might need to go for essential services.


----------



## catz4m8z

kittih said:


> Regarding limiting the time for exercise. This was never a restriction originally, just something Gove made up.
> 
> However I am personally a bit ambivalent about specifying a particular distance as depending on how rural or otherwise you are depends on how far you might need to go for essential services.


TBF though the whole of the lockdown is just something the Gove made up! 
I have no problem with people having to travel for essential services but driving 20 miles coz you want a walk on the seafront is taking the p*** IMO. It should be exercising from your front door and unless your front door opens directly onto a motorway or you live on a boat in the middle of the ocean then that is totally possible. You can walk or jog around a housing estate just as easily as you can a country park.


----------



## kittih

catz4m8z said:


> TBF though the whole of the lockdown is just something the Gove made up!
> I have no problem with people having to travel for essential services but driving 20 miles coz you want a walk on the seafront is taking the p*** IMO. It should be exercising from your front door and unless your front door opens directly onto a motorway or you live on a boat in the middle of the ocean then that is totally possible. You can walk or jog around a housing estate just as easily as you can a country park.


Many of the villages near me have no pavements or associated footpaths or bridleways and houses go directly onto fast narrow country lanes which are unsafe to walk on so I have no issue whatsoever for people to drive somewhere safe and local for exercise personally.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> There's a lot of farmers crops (our food) trampled by people trying to avoid the mud or other people!


Tbf most of the farmers round here only leave the width of a tyre as a footpath instead of the 1.5 metre which I believe they should, so it's partly their own fault


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbf most of the farmers round here only leave the width of a tyre as a footpath instead of the 1.5 metre which I believe they should, so it's partly their own fault


Hardly any here do and many are not fenced in. I do worry that more and more fences to contain people will start to go up. Coronovirus is not the farmers fault any more than anyone else.
I find it odd that you concentrate on fault rather than damaged food!


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> I literally haven't been anywhere for months or met with anyone I follow the rules closely. I am lucky I have my dogs to walk. I just think it's important to remember the experience of someone living with their family will be very different to those alone. I don't think it's those going for a socially distanced walk are spreading the virus mostly I think it's people completely ignoring and going to each other's houses and socialising in large groups.


We don't have any travel restrictions here but nevertheless I keep away from other people as much as possible. I'm sure though there must be people in the UK who are in a similar position to me where whether they like it or not sometimes they have to leave the house to shop.

I live on my own in a tiny village with no local shop, only two buses a day and the nearest supermarket 12 miles away. Online shopping and delivery of durable items only for such things as dog food or clothes. And to make things more complicated because we don't have a mobile signal you can only pay for them COD. If you want a banana or milk you have to drive to town and buy them in person. I do have two freezers and cupboards filled with dried good, but being vegetarian I do like my fresh fruit and salads which unfortunately don't have a long shelf life.

It's been over a year since I saw my granddaughter and 20 months since I last saw my son and DIL and no possibility of seeing them in the near future. As someone in their 80's it's a sobering thought that the virus or not I'm might not live long enough to ever see them again.

And that is incredibly depressing.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> people wearing masks out and about on my walks


 I think Sadiq Khan is ''considering'' making wearing of masks (in London?) compulsory. Not yet compulsory but people are being ''urged'' to do it - whatever that means. But then you get the double messages (especially in the papers), that ''wearing a mask does not necessarily protect the wearer, but protects people with whom they come into contact who are NOT wearing a mask''; and to be honest, that's not what people have in mind when they wear one. Then, of course, there are different types of mask . . .


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I think Sadiq Khan is ''considering'' making wearing of masks (in London?) compulsory. Not yet compulsory but people are being ''urged'' to do it - whatever that means. But then you get the double messages (especially in the papers), that ''wearing a mask does not necessarily protect the wearer, but protects people with whom they come into contact who are NOT wearing a mask''; and to be honest, that's not what people have in mind when they wear one. Then, of course, there are different types of mask . . .


I think we do know that wearing mask is what protects others from us, but there is definitely a feeling of why should I protect you who is not wearing a mask when you can't be arsed to protect me. I don't think I have ever seen such selfishness in people than during this period. For all the crap we started with last year about being kind. Which plainly must have just been lip service.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I think we do know that wearing mask is what protects others from us, but there is definitely a feeling of why should I protect you who is not wearing a mask when you can't be arsed to protect me. I don't think I have ever seen such selfishness in people than during this period. For all the crap we started with last year about being kind. Which plainly must have just been lip service.


I drove into my local town yesterday lunchtime and first drew some money from the ATM which to get to the machine means opening the ban's front door with your card. Not a soul in sight, but nevertheless wore my mask just in case someone else came along. Then went to the supermarket where everyone was wearing masks including the all the staff. Over here failure on the management's part to enforce the mandatory masking wearing rule can result in the shop being closed down.

Came home and was unloading my groceries when I saw a couple with a young child walking down the lane all wearing masks. Not another soul in sight!


----------



## Pawscrossed

catz4m8z said:


> TBF though the whole of the lockdown is just something the Gove made up!
> I have no problem with people having to travel for essential services but driving 20 miles coz you want a walk on the seafront is taking the p*** IMO. It should be exercising from your front door and unless your front door opens directly onto a motorway or you live on a boat in the middle of the ocean then that is totally possible. You can walk or jog around a housing estate just as easily as you can a country park.


There are two posts - Radio 5 Live and Simple Politics - with Chris Whitty and the responses seem to be that there's no trust in him, Valance or the government. it's very worrying. I don't think Whitty or Valance should be judged like that.

I feel the government have lost control for a long time. The police are underfunded so they can't arrest. The NHS are underfunded, under resourced and under _everything_ so they can't cope. Covid has shown the flaws in our country and how it's run. We shouldn't be in a position where front line nurses and doctors are paid less than MPs. In theory we should be obeying the government since enough people voted to give them a majority, it's odd that so many selectively don't.

My worry is the people who mistrust and use that as an excuse to flout rules. I don't trust Johnson and his cronies to boil a kettle but I will listen to science and medicine, anyone on the front line may have more impact.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MilleD said:


> I think we do know that wearing mask is what protects others from us, but there is definitely a feeling of why should I protect you who is not wearing a mask when you can't be arsed to protect me. I don't think I have ever seen such selfishness in people than during this period. For all the crap we started with last year about being kind. Which plainly must have just been lip service.


Agree. Though there have been huge acts of kindness it doesn't seem to outweigh the stupidity and selfishness of many.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbf most of the farmers round here only leave the width of a tyre as a footpath instead of the 1.5 metre which I believe they should, so it's partly their own fault


I've had a lot of people breaking rules on walks in the cemetery grounds where I live because the fields are impassable. Mud and in one case the path width. I take a twisted delight in asking them if they are looking for a fast track to a plot.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> A bit more on cleaners if anyone is interested -
> 
> *Dettol* is owned by Reckitt Benckiser whose products (Cillit Bang is another) caused the deaths of many in South Korea. The heads of the company remain in charge despite this.
> 
> *Domestos* is owned by Unilever who have a terrible rating for palm oil, deforestation, animal welfare, human rights... its endless, just seen they own Pukka Herbs whose Apple tea I loved dammit so I've got to find another brand..
> 
> https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/home-garden/shopping-guide/household-cleaners
> 
> https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/company-profile/unilever


thank you, I had no idea. I don't use either brand thankfully but I do have some Cillit Bang.

I have seen masks being left and a few floating down our river. The very least we can do is buy with our planet in mind, it is a pandemic but it would be good to have a place to live on when it's over.

@Boxer123 and @Magyarmum and @Cully did you read this?


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> We don't have any travel restrictions here but nevertheless I keep away from other people as much as possible. I'm sure though there must be people in the UK who are in a similar position to me where whether they like it or not sometimes they have to leave the house to shop.
> 
> I live on my own in a tiny village with no local shop, only two buses a day and the nearest supermarket 12 miles away. Online shopping and delivery of durable items only for such things as dog food or clothes. And to make things more complicated because we don't have a mobile signal you can only pay for them COD. If you want a banana or milk you have to drive to town and buy them in person. I do have two freezers and cupboards filled with dried good, but being vegetarian I do like my fresh fruit and salads which unfortunately don't have a long shelf life.
> 
> It's been over a year since I saw my granddaughter and 20 months since I last saw my son and DIL and no possibility of seeing them in the near future. As someone in their 80's it's a sobering thought that the virus or not I'm might not live long enough to ever see them again.
> 
> And that is incredibly depressing.


It is very difficult isn't it. I hope that you can be re United with your Grand daughter soon is she in the UK? I recieved the news that my Dad is very unwell (terminal) before Xmas I pray I can see him one more time.

I think it was the point I was trying to make some people don't have a choice but to go out as they don't have the support networks.

I am fully supportive of a tighter lockdown we desperately need it in the Uk but I also worry about people's mental health. The guidelines need to be very clear. Right now it's a bit woolly.


----------



## daveos

Day off work today relief not to have to go feel on edge all the time suspicious of everybody.
Have to say never seen so many people out and about mingling in the park where I walk my dog it is mad groups exercising sitting on benches chatting have really lost my faith in people at the moment, Work was quiet all of last week until Saturday then it was as if the flood gates was opened silly season people treating it as a day out walking around laughing and all gathering to chat to each other remember shopping should be essential only preferably once a week this lockdown needs to get a lot tougher I'm afraid here are my ideas.
. Stop house hold support bubbles
. Impose a curfew at night say 8pm - 5am only exemption key workers
. Face masks at all times even outside
. Excersise once a day only 
. Shop once a week only for essentials
. No travel over 10 miles from home again only exemption key workers 
This is what is needed to defeat this spread we can't rely on the people I'm sorry to say.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Hopefully today they are going to tighten the rules.


----------



## Magyarmum

Pawscrossed said:


> thank you, I had no idea. I don't use either brand thankfully but I do have some Cillit Bang.
> 
> I have seen masks being left and a few floating down our river. The very least we can do is buy with our planet in mind, it is a pandemic but it would be good to have a place to live on when it's over.
> 
> @Boxer123 and @Magyarmum and @Cully did you read this?


Yes thank you.


----------



## daveos

Happy Paws2 said:


> Hopefully today they are going to tighten the rules.


Fingers crossed I really hope they do.


----------



## LittleEms

Happy Paws2 said:


> Hopefully today they are going to tighten the rules.


Fingers crossed.

Had a small panic attack this morning about still having to go to work - I really didn't think it had affected me this much! I think it's the barrage of figures everywhere you look and it didn't help that someone I saw this morning decided to tell me our local town has 'had a surge'!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm starting to get worried I'm in the shielding bracket and we are having a new gas cooker next Monday so a gas man and delivery people will be coming into our home, do you think it's safe or should we cancel. Noting we have paid already


Well needn't have worried the cooker arrived at the same time as the gas man everything was done old out new in, in less than 30 mins. everyone wore masks I kept out of the way with the windows open. Just give it good wipe over but not using until tonight maybe tomorrow


----------



## daveos

LittleEms said:


> Fingers crossed.
> 
> Had a small panic attack this morning about still having to go to work - I really didn't think it had affected me this much! I think it's the barrage of figures everywhere you look and it didn't help that someone I saw this morning decided to tell me our local town has 'had a surge'!!


Hi hope you are ok I feel exactly the same as you I feel sick thinking about going into work tomorrow just looked at daily mirror headlines it is getting to scary.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> It is very difficult isn't it. I hope that you can be re United with your Grand daughter soon is she in the UK? I recieved the news that my Dad is very unwell (terminal) before Xmas I pray I can see him one more time.
> 
> I think it was the point I was trying to make some people don't have a choice but to go out as they don't have the support networks.
> 
> I am fully supportive of a tighter lockdown we desperately need it in the Uk but I also worry about people's mental health. The guidelines need to be very clear. Right now it's a bit woolly.


I'm sorry to hear your Dad is so ill, I do hope things work out so you can visit him. If you want to talk you can PM anytime.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm sorry to hear your Dad is so ill, I do hope things work out so you can visit him. If you want to talk you can PM anytime.


Thank you it has been a difficult few weeks luckily I have an infinite amount of boxer snugs.


----------



## LittleEms

daveos said:


> Hi hope you are ok I feel exactly the same as you I feel sick thinking about going into work tomorrow just looked at daily mirror headlines it is getting to scary.


I am comforting myself in the knowledge that my workplace is very clean and safe (I work in a medical field over the winter), but have had to turn off the radio! Trying to distance myself as much as I can today.
Try not to read or listen to too much news today, it might help.


----------



## daveos

LittleEms said:


> I am comforting myself in the knowledge that my workplace is very clean and safe (I work in a medical field over the winter), but have had to turn off the radio! Trying to distance myself as much as I can today.
> Try not to read or listen to too much news today, it might help.


Thanks yes I try not to read news but I'm always curious to see whats going on. 
I wish my workplace was safe we have 3 staff of currently with cover but management have not said anything about it and no deep clean has been done either.


----------



## daveos

daveos said:


> Thanks yes I try not to read news but I'm always curious to see whats going on.
> I wish my workplace was safe we have 3 staff of currently with cover but management have not said anything about it and no deep clean has been done either.


And as for distancing customers keep leaning over me or taping my shoulders surprised I have not been sacked yet as I shout please keep 2 meters away.


----------



## Gemmaa

I think supermarkets should be trying to keep shelf stacking to a minimum during shopping hours, if only to keep their staff safer. I'm also not seeing a reason why floor cleaning can't be done before they open, instead of having someone walking around taking up loads of space, and making no effort to avoid anyone.

I have nothing but respect for retail staff, but some of them are doing some seriously iffy things at the moment - like one guy blowing his nose, not sanitising his hands, and then continuing to touch loads of food epressed


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> It is very difficult isn't it. I hope that you can be re United with your Grand daughter soon is she in the UK? I recieved the news that my Dad is very unwell (terminal) before Xmas I pray I can see him one more time.
> 
> I think it was the point I was trying to make some people don't have a choice but to go out as they don't have the support networks.
> 
> I am fully supportive of a tighter lockdown we desperately need it in the Uk but I also worry about people's mental health. The guidelines need to be very clear. Right now it's a bit woolly.


I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad, it must be an enormous worry for you.

My granddaughter's in the UK living with my son and from all accounts driving each other mad. She usually comes over a couple of times a year and we had a lovely Christmas together last year. I miss her even though we argue - we're very alike in character and she's really good fun to be with.

My DIL went to Edinburgh at the beginning of December to help her mother who's confined to a wheelchair. Unfortunately her carers had stopped coming and her other daughter lives over 2 hours away. Now of course with the lockdown in Scotland my DIL has no idea when she'll get back to Cornwall.

The Schnauzer boys say if Loki and Sox want to PM them they can all have a moan about how badly treated they are by their hoomans.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I drove into my local town yesterday lunchtime and first drew some money from the ATM which to get to the machine means opening the ban's front door with your card. Not a soul in sight, but nevertheless wore my mask just in case someone else came along. Then went to the supermarket where everyone was wearing masks including the all the staff. Over here failure on the management's part to enforce the mandatory masking wearing rule can result in the shop being closed down.
> 
> Came home and was unloading my groceries when I saw a couple with a young child walking down the lane all wearing masks. Not another soul in sight!


If only it were mandatory here...


----------



## rona

daveos said:


> Day off work today relief not to have to go feel on edge all the time suspicious of everybody.





LittleEms said:


> Had a small panic attack this morning about still having to go to work - I really didn't think it had affected me this much!


I honestly don't know how you are doing it. I'm so glad that I don't have. 
Stay safe



Gemmaa said:


> I have nothing but respect for retail staff, but some of them are doing some seriously iffy things at the moment - like one guy blowing his nose, not sanitising his hands, and then continuing to touch loads of food


I trust no-one


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Hardly any here do and many are not fenced in. I do worry that more and more fences to contain people will start to go up. Coronovirus is not the farmers fault any more than anyone else.
> I find it odd that you concentrate on fault rather than damaged food!


Well, I don't condone people walking on crops for starters!

Merely pointing out a possible reason why some people do.

The point I was making is that if the footpaths were actually the correct width then people could pass each other safely. Even outside I don't want to get in close contact with anyone.

Around here the farmers do not follow the rules themselves.

From gov.uk:

"
*Field-edge and cross-field public rights of way*
You must not cultivate (eg plough) footpaths or bridleways that follow a field edge. The minimum width you need to keep undisturbed is:


1.5 metres for a field edge footpath
3 metres for a field edge bridleway
You should avoid cultivating a cross-field footpath or bridleway. If you have to cultivate make sure the footpath or bridleway:


remains apparent on the ground to at least the minimum width of 1 metre for a footpath or 2 metres for a bridleway, and is not obstructed by crops
is restored to at least the minimum width so that it's reasonably convenient to use within:
14 days of first being cultivated for that crop
24 hours of any subsequent cultivation, unless a longer period has been agreed in advance in writing by the highway authority"



Most footpaths are much less than 1, let alone 1.5 metres, those that get ploughed up take weeks to get marked and levelled, often rendered inaccessible except for the most hardy walker to try to cross in deep mud.

I posted in another thread that last Thursday, a friend and I had to find our own way across a planted field as the official footpath was non existent, way marks were obscured/missing and stiles damaged. I wondered if that was because the field is used to slaughter pheasants as there were a number of Pegs across it's entirety - quite possibly imo.

I've contacted the County Council to have it reinstated and the signpost replaced and the stile repaired.


----------



## Lurcherlad

daveos said:


> Day off work today relief not to have to go feel on edge all the time suspicious of everybody.
> Have to say never seen so many people out and about mingling in the park where I walk my dog it is mad groups exercising sitting on benches chatting have really lost my faith in people at the moment, Work was quiet all of last week until Saturday then it was as if the flood gates was opened silly season people treating it as a day out walking around laughing and all gathering to chat to each other remember shopping should be essential only preferably once a week this lockdown needs to get a lot tougher I'm afraid here are my ideas.
> . Stop house hold support bubbles
> . Impose a curfew at night say 8pm - 5am only exemption key workers
> . Face masks at all times even outside
> . Excersise once a day only
> . Shop once a week only for essentials
> . No travel over 10 miles from home again only exemption key workers
> This is what is needed to defeat this spread we can't rely on the people I'm sorry to say.


I get where you're coming from, to a degree.

Just out of interest, how do you feel about my walk with my neighbour this morning and the period when we were sat while social distancing at opposite ends of a bench chatting a while, each with a takeaway coffee, before walking home again?

She is a widow, living alone (on anti depressants) with no family support apart from a brief, perfunctory phone call now and then if she's lucky, and might see the odd neighbour for a hello if she sees them on the street.

Our walks and chats are extremely important for her mental health.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> I get where you're coming from, to a degree.
> 
> Just out of interest, how do you feel about my walk with my neighbour this morning and the period when we were sat while social distancing at opposite ends of a bench chatting a while, before walking home again?
> 
> She is a widow, living alone (on anti depressants) with no family support apart from a brief, perfunctory phone call now and then if she's lucky, and might see the odd neighbour for a hello if she sees them on the street.
> 
> Our walks and chats are extremely important for her mental health.


There is talk of removing bubbles today. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back for some people.


----------



## LittleEms

Boxer123 said:


> There is talk of removing bubbles today. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back for some people.


Yes I think it will be seriously damaging. 
We lost my Nan last July and my Grandpa lives alone now. My mum and myself (we live together) are the only two people he has seen since then. There is no way he would be anything close to functioning if he can't see us.


----------



## Boxer123

LittleEms said:


> Yes I think it will be seriously damaging.
> We lost my Nan last July and my Grandpa lives alone now. My mum and myself (we live together) are the only two people he has seen since then. There is no way he would be anything close to functioning if he can't see us.


Sorry to hear about your Nan let's hope they still allow this as to me it's almost a caring role.


----------



## catz4m8z

LittleEms said:


> Yes I think it will be seriously damaging.
> We lost my Nan last July and my Grandpa lives alone now. My mum and myself (we live together) are the only two people he has seen since then. There is no way he would be anything close to functioning if he can't see us.


Well, you can always go round and do some housework or washing up for him and then you are caring for him as a vulnerable person.
I dont think the people who are forming support bubbles with 1 other person are the problem IMO...its the people who think they can form multiple bubbles with friends and family, and stop for a chat at the supermarket, and meet up with friends for a coffee and walk as their exercise.
Im in a support bubble with my friend and TBH we hardly ever see each other in person, just talk on the phone. The idea is if one of us is ill, isolating or needs help with our pets then we can call on each other. We arent using it as an excuse to hang out all the time.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> There is talk of removing bubbles today. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back for some people.


Really?


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> There is talk of removing bubbles today. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back for some people.


Oh goodness no! I know things need to be stricter in some ways, but not that!


----------



## MilleD

It sounds like it might be media bullsh!t to be honest.


----------



## HarlequinCat

They should consider shutting cafes first, the queues some of them have are ridiculous and most aren't wearing masks or giving each other 2m. There's one by a post office we need to go to and every day its really busy there


----------



## daveos

Problem with bubbles they were a good idea can see why they were needed is they have been seriously abused by people by a lot of people I mentioned earlier about 3 staff of work at the moment with Covid well one of them got it from being in a so called bubble basically she was having friends etc around all the time even a hot tub party now she is very ill what we have heard is she struggles to get out of bed also her husband has now caught it and she is a mother to 2 young girls.
I have a elderly neighbour 2 doors away 97 years old and very down at the moment but none of us will go to her property we phone each day that is it we have stuck to the rules it is a shame everybody else can't.


----------



## lullabydream

HarlequinCat said:


> They should consider shutting cafes first, the queues some of them have are ridiculous and most aren't wearing masks or giving each other 2m. There's one by a post office we need to go to and every day its really busy there


I think in my town if they shut takeaways I think people would maybe stand up and notice we are in the pandemic.


----------



## daveos

lullabydream said:


> I think in my town if they shut takeaways I think people would maybe stand up and notice we are in the pandemic.


So true people all acting like nothing going on also close take aways they are not essential.


----------



## Lurcherlad

daveos said:


> So true people all acting like nothing going on also close take aways they are not essential.


Except to those whose business it is and their only form of income.


----------



## LittleEms

Lurcherlad said:


> Except to those whose business it is and their only form of income.


That I think is the line that is very difficult to see in this situation.
I know where I live there are some wonderful independent coffee shops that will struggle if they have to shut. The other side of that is the fact that people gather outside of them socialising and not distancing ect. It's a difficult situation.


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Problem with bubbles they were a good idea can see why they were needed is they have been seriously abused by people by a lot of people I mentioned earlier about 3 staff of work at the moment with Covid well one of them got it from being in a so called bubble basically she was having friends etc around all the time even a hot tub party now she is very ill what we have heard is she struggles to get out of bed also her husband has now caught it and she is a mother to 2 young girls.


In fairness, that has absolutely nothing to do with the bubble system, and everything to do with being an entitled t1t.


----------



## HarlequinCat

LittleEms said:


> That I think is the line that is very difficult to see in this situation.
> I know where I live there are some wonderful independent coffee shops that will struggle if they have to shut. The other side of that is the fact that people gather outside of them socialising and not distancing ect. It's a difficult situation.


 Yup! This is a small independent one here, and I can see why they want to keep trading. Its just the people not sticking to distancing rules that are making it dangerous!


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> Yup! This is a small independent one here, and I can see why they want to keep trading. Its just the people not sticking to distancing rules that are making it dangerous!


Which has nothing to do with the "takeways can open" rule and everything to do with people being idiots.

If only there were some darwinism in action going on, but those people aren't the people that will suffer from their idiocy.


----------



## Blackadder

daveos said:


> . Stop house hold support bubbles
> . Impose a curfew at night say 8pm - 5am only exemption key workers
> . Face masks at all times even outside
> . Excersise once a day only
> . Shop once a week only for essentials
> . No travel over 10 miles from home again only exemption key workers
> This is what is needed to defeat this spread we can't rely on the people I'm sorry to say.


I don't think that goes far enough....

My solution is for the Government to herd us all into our homes & padlock the doors for 6 months. For food & essentials there can be a team of delivery marksmen/women who fire tins of baked beans & toilet rolls to us using catapults (social distancing), obviously you'd have to open a window so it could fly in but only for as long as it takes to catch your tin of Heinz finest.

We could have snipers on rooftops to take out anyone who makes a break for the local shop for a tin of spaghetti hoops 'cos they're sick of beans!

I realise I'm in a minority on this thread regarding lockdowns but after reading that I despair!


----------



## daveos

Blackadder said:


> I don't think that goes far enough....
> 
> My solution is for the Government to herd us all into our homes & padlock the doors for 6 months. For food & essentials there can be a team of delivery marksmen/women who fire tins of baked beans & toilet rolls to us using catapults (social distancing), obviously you'd have to open a window so it could fly in but only for as long as it takes to catch your tin of Heinz finest.
> 
> We could have snipers on rooftops to take out anyone who makes a break for the local shop for a tin of spaghetti hoops 'cos they're sick of beans!
> 
> I realise I'm in a minority on this thread regarding lockdowns but after reading that I despair!


Funny thing is I read that scientist want a Asian style lockdown with far tougher rules Problem being it is the people a small percentage of people just don't care and they make the rest of us suffer don't blame the government they give guidance blame the people.
Oh watch out for snipers.


----------



## daveos

MilleD said:


> In fairness, that has absolutely nothing to do with the bubble system, and everything to do with being an entitled t1t.


So true she is a nice girl really just a selfish one myself and others have heard her bragging about her parties and calling them her bubble makes you wonder how many others do the same bet its thousands.


----------



## daveos

Lurcherlad said:


> Except to those whose business it is and their only form of income.


Im sure they can get a compensation of some sort a colleague at work his partner is a hairdresser she has claimed on 2 occasions she says all ok.


----------



## Lurcherlad

LittleEms said:


> That I think is the line that is very difficult to see in this situation.
> I know where I live there are some wonderful independent coffee shops that will struggle if they have to shut. The other side of that is the fact that people gather outside of them socialising and not distancing ect. It's a difficult situation.


Here, people queuing outside our independent cafes are actually being very good as well as following the number allowed inside at any one time.

I can't say the same for the multi national (low tax paying) one that seems to allow long queues inside, nor does it keep the litter overflowing the bin (their cups) on the pavement under control.


----------



## MilleD

Blackadder said:


> I don't think that goes far enough....
> 
> My solution is for the Government to herd us all into our homes & padlock the doors for 6 months. For food & essentials there can be a team of delivery marksmen/women who fire tins of baked beans & toilet rolls to us using catapults (social distancing), obviously you'd have to open a window so it could fly in but only for as long as it takes to catch your tin of Heinz finest.
> 
> We could have snipers on rooftops to take out anyone who makes a break for the local shop for a tin of spaghetti hoops 'cos they're sick of beans!
> 
> I realise I'm in a minority on this thread regarding lockdowns but after reading that I despair!


As someone who has had to shield I find that a little OTT too.

Your ideas on the other hand, some of those I'm quite liking. Not sure it has anything to do with Covid though


----------



## Lurcherlad

daveos said:


> Im sure they can get a compensation of some sort a colleague at work his partner is a hairdresser she has claimed on 2 occasions she says all ok.


Some can, I agree, but there are quite a few people falling between the gaps.


----------



## SbanR

daveos said:


> Im sure they can get a compensation of some sort a colleague at work his partner is a hairdresser she has claimed on 2 occasions she says all ok.


Only, not everyone does.
My hairdresser and reflexologist haven't received a penny.


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> Only, not everyone does.
> My hairdresser and reflexologist haven't received a penny.


+

My OH hasn't either


----------



## catz4m8z

daveos said:


> also close take aways they are not essential.


I dont think take aways are a big problem though. I mean most either deliver to peoples houses or are designed for people to just pick up and take their food away. At least where I live there are no take aways you would want to sit outside and chat!

I think curfews might help though. Keep people from loitering about at night and maybe even daytime curfews for parks and beaches/touristy places as well. Most people who are using them for social activities tend to be doing it more in the middle of the day.


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH and I often take our exercise after 9pm and walk round the estate, along the main road, passing parades of local shops, public play areas etc. and we generally don’t see a soul.

The local “yoof” and drug dealers are often heard over the back field ... that’s where the Police should be going as I can guarantee there will not be any social distancing going on if they’re off their heads on weed or sniffing gas canisters.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Saw this on Facebook


----------



## Blackadder

MilleD said:


> As someone who has had to shield I find that a little OTT too.


I suppose, in a very clumsy way, that's my point! You shielded for your own protection, you knew to avoid others to help yourself. It doesn't take a genius (no offence ) to know you're at risk & take precautions or is it difficult, kinda soul destroying but not difficult. I think it used to be known as "common sense"!



MilleD said:


> Your ideas on the other hand, some of those I'm quite liking. Not sure it has anything to do with Covid though


I didn't know I'd had any ideas


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Saw this on Facebook
> 
> View attachment 459909
> 
> View attachment 459910


God, I wish he had said that....


----------



## ebonycat

Lurcherlad said:


> Saw this on Facebook
> 
> View attachment 459909
> 
> View attachment 459910





MilleD said:


> God, I wish he had said that....


Me too


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> OH and I often take our exercise after 9pm and walk round the estate, along the main road, passing parades of local shops, public play areas etc. and we generally don't see a soul.


We take the dogs for their main walk after 6.30pm (usually closer to 7.30) & we rarely see anyone.


----------



## catz4m8z

Blackadder said:


> I think it used to be known as "common sense"!


If only we could rely on that though! Unfortunately we are having to accommodate the idiots, anti vaxxers/hoax believers and plain ol' selfish jerks. It means that those of us who understand the situation and are willing to put up with temporary restrictions will probably have more rules placed upon us because of those morons.
Lets face it....laws arent put into place for the people who are behaving themselves, its for those who are going to be breaking them!


----------



## Blackadder

catz4m8z said:


> If only we could rely on that though!


Aah the good old days  when people thought for themselves & generally got it right! I can remember (just) being a small child & my mum saying "we won't be going to see gran today because xxxx is poorly & we don't want gran to catch it", it stuck with me.... common sense! I'm sure most of you have had the same? Where has that gone? We didn't need the authorities to tell us!


----------



## Bisbow

At the risk of cross posting (Brexit) and being called names the EU milked all the common sense out of most of us so we would rely on them

Now common sense is a rare thing


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> +
> 
> My OH hasn't either


I'm sorry to hear that.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> Aah the good old days  when people thought for themselves & generally got it right! I can remember (just) being a small child & my mum saying "we won't be going to see gran today because xxxx is poorly & we don't want gran to catch it", it stuck with me.... common sense! I'm sure most of you have had the same? Where has that gone? We didn't need the authorities to tell us!


But it seems like lots of people do


----------



## Cully

Blackadder said:


> Aah the good old days  when people thought for themselves & generally got it right! I can remember (just) being a small child & my mum saying "we won't be going to see gran today because xxxx is poorly & we don't want gran to catch it", it stuck with me.... common sense! I'm sure most of you have had the same? Where has that gone? We didn't need the authorities to tell us!


Generally, the age of those people flouting rules are a generation who never heard the word 'NO' often enough, if at all. Instead parents 'explained' why they shouldn't be poking a fork into the electric socket but not actually stopping them. Might as well try and explain quantum physics!
I can't remember where the phrase 'spare the rod and spoil the child' comes from, but there's a lot of truth in it imo.
I don't think making it illegal to smack children was a good move. It was intended to prevent abuse of physical punishment and to stop child beating, which is very different to a pat on the bottom when words aren't enough.
We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.
To quote another saying, 'you reap what you sow'.
Wow, sorry to rant, got a bit carried away.


----------



## Bisbow

Cully said:


> Generally, the age of those people flouting rules are a generation who never heard the word 'NO' often enough, if at all. Instead parents 'explained' why they shouldn't be poking a fork into the electric socket but not actually stopping them. Might as well try and explain quantum physics!
> I can't remember where the phrase 'spare the rod and spoil the child' comes from, but there's a lot of truth in it imo.
> I don't think making it illegal to smack children was a good move. It was intended to prevent abuse of physical punishment and to stop child beating, which is very different to a pat on the bottom when words aren't enough.
> We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.
> To quote another saying, 'you reap what you sow'.
> Wow, sorry to rant, got a bit carried away.


You are so right in every thing you said


----------



## Blackadder

The 2 women fined for driving 5 miles for a walk have had their "fines" cancelled with a spokesperson for Derbyshire police saying officers were "a little over zealous" 
Meanwhile.....
*Boris Johnson has been criticised for travelling seven miles from Downing Street to go cycling during lockdown.*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55620138

Personally I don't have a problem with either but it doesn't look good!


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.


While I generally agree with your sentiments on this. The statement above could apply to every generation of teenagers.
You should hear the stories my Mother told of times during WW2 when she was young


----------



## Cleo38

Cully said:


> Generally, the age of those people flouting rules are a generation who never heard the word 'NO' often enough, if at all. Instead parents 'explained' why they shouldn't be poking a fork into the electric socket but not actually stopping them. Might as well try and explain quantum physics!
> I can't remember where the phrase 'spare the rod and spoil the child' comes from, but there's a lot of truth in it imo.
> I don't think making it illegal to smack children was a good move. It was intended to prevent abuse of physical punishment and to stop child beating, which is very different to a pat on the bottom when words aren't enough.
> We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.
> To quote another saying, 'you reap what you sow'.
> Wow, sorry to rant, got a bit carried away.


I would disagree .... punishment has nothing to do with 'good' behaviour. If we look at how we train our dogs then it's about building relationships, motivation, rewarding behaviours we like, consistency, etc. Why is it that when it comes to children people seem to think that using physical punishment is the best way to go?

Young people are a mixed bunch just as the rest of our society so not sure why there seems to be this downer on them.... we were all young once & am sure most of cringe now at some of the things we got up to as we now know better but that comes with experience


----------



## Calvine

daveos said:


> a small percentage of people just don't care


 Not on PF, but on a few sites I have seen some boneheads saying how they loved the whole thing about being home on furlough, getting paid for doing little or nothing and that they are happy for the pandemic to last for ever - ''Hey, bring it on!'' one of them said. My guess is that these are the ones who will flout the rules. On the news a couple of nights back, police breaking down a door and a group of eight playing snooker and drinking pints. One of them self-righteously produced a mask_ from his pocket _as if that made everything OK_. _Think the fine was £200 each - I'd like to see it more like £1000 minimum. These were grown men too, not kids.


----------



## StormyThai

Cully said:


> Generally, the age of those people flouting rules are a generation who never heard the word 'NO' often enough, if at all. Instead parents 'explained' why they shouldn't be poking a fork into the electric socket but not actually stopping them. Might as well try and explain quantum physics!
> I can't remember where the phrase 'spare the rod and spoil the child' comes from, but there's a lot of truth in it imo.
> I don't think making it illegal to smack children was a good move. It was intended to prevent abuse of physical punishment and to stop child beating, which is very different to a pat on the bottom when words aren't enough.
> We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.
> To quote another saying, 'you reap what you sow'.
> Wow, sorry to rant, got a bit carried away.


I've seen people from all generations flouting the rules...In fact my own personal experience has shown more of the the older generation are worse but I won't pin the blame on a set generation...it is what it is.

This has nothing to do with not hitting children...you don't need physical punishment to teach any behaviour.
IMO this is more about the "I'm alright Jack" mentality...and that runs across all generations


----------



## Cully

Cleo38 said:


> Young people are a mixed bunch just as the rest of our society so not sure why there seems to be this downer on them.... we were all young once & am sure most of cringe now at some of the things we got up to as we now know better but that comes with experience


That's the whole point isn't it at the moment. With this virus in our midst there's no wriggle room to gain the experience to keep ourselves and others safe. That's why there has to be a universal rule book, particularly for those who haven't learnt the common sense which would keep us all safe until the vaccines do their job.
I was a teen during the 60's with all that lovely freedom, long beaded hair a flower power:Wacky:Happy


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> Not on PF, but on a few sites I have seen some boneheads saying how they loved the whole thing about being home on furlough, getting paid for doing little or nothing and that they are happy for the pandemic to last for ever - ''Hey, bring it on!'' one of them said. My guess is that these are the ones who will flout the rules. On the news a couple of nights back, police breaking down a door and a group of eight playing snooker and drinking pints. One of them self-righteously produced a mask_ from his pocket _as if that made everything OK_. _Think the fine was £200 each - I'd like to see it more like £1000 minimum. These were grown men too, not kids.


I saw that guy, and when the police told him he was the reason there were so many cases as he was spreading it, his atrocious reaction was to just shrug. And he wasn't a youngster either, probably late 40's.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I just think a some people of all ages are getting selfish, think it wont happen to them or just don't believe how bad the virus is, or just don't care.


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> Aah the good old days  when people thought for themselves & generally got it right! I can remember (just) being a small child & my mum saying "we won't be going to see gran today because xxxx is poorly & we don't want gran to catch it", it stuck with me.... common sense! I'm sure most of you have had the same? Where has that gone? We didn't need the authorities to tell us!


Sadly, common sense has never really been that common when you take the time to really look at history with the rose tinted glasses off...



Cully said:


> Generally, the age of those people flouting rules are a generation who never heard the word 'NO' often enough, if at all. Instead parents 'explained' why they shouldn't be poking a fork into the electric socket but not actually stopping them. Might as well try and explain quantum physics!
> I can't remember where the phrase 'spare the rod and spoil the child' comes from, but there's a lot of truth in it imo.


Old Testament, Proverbs 13:24



Cully said:


> We now have younger generations who think they don't have to do anything they don't want to, and who believe that rules are made to be broken.
> To quote another saying, 'you reap what you sow'.


Pretty sure very generation has believe that about the next 

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)

"Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt."
(Book III of Odes, Horace, circa 20 BC)

"[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances ... They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it."
(Rhetoric Part 12 On Youthful Character, Aristotle, 4th Century BC)


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> Sadly, common sense has never really been that common when you take the time to really look at history with the rose tinted glasses off...
> 
> Old Testament, Proverbs 13:24
> 
> Pretty sure very geration has believe that about the next
> 
> "The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)
> 
> "Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
> We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
> so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt."
> (Book III of Odes, Horace, circa 20 BC)
> 
> "[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances ... They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it."
> (Rhetoric Part 12 On Youthful Character, Aristotle, 4th Century BC)


You should get out more:Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> I've seen people from all generations flouting the rules...In fact my own personal experience has shown more of the the older generation are worse but I won't pin the blame on a set generation...it is what it is.
> 
> This has nothing to do with not hitting children...you don't need physical punishment to teach any behaviour.
> IMO this is more about the "I'm alright Jack" mentality...and that runs across all generations


Agree.

My husband is of the older generation who are all meant to have voted Tory, Leave and can't see the point of BLM or wearing a mask. He's the opposite of all of these and it's why I hate labels and broad swipes at demographics. People are shared by so much more than age.


----------



## MollySmith

Blackadder said:


> Aah the good old days  when people thought for themselves & generally got it right! I can remember (just) being a small child & my mum saying "we won't be going to see gran today because xxxx is poorly & we don't want gran to catch it", it stuck with me.... common sense! I'm sure most of you have had the same? Where has that gone? We didn't need the authorities to tell us!


I always thinks of dentists, nylon, polystyrene tiles on roofs and the cane when anyone thinks of the rosey good old days.

I think there were just as many stupids then as there are now. But in many ways we're better facilitated to Zoom granny, if the cost isn't prohibited, but we never had a pandemic in the good old days. It's not really comparable.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> I would disagree .... punishment has nothing to do with 'good' behaviour. If we look at how we train our dogs then it's about building relationships, motivation, rewarding behaviours we like, consistency, etc. Why is it that when it comes to children people seem to think that using physical punishment is the best way to go?
> 
> Young people are a mixed bunch just as the rest of our society so not sure why there seems to be this downer on them.... we were all young once & am sure most of cringe now at some of the things we got up to as we now know better but that comes with experience


So true.

I know people of my generation and older (who probably were smacked, etc.) who are just as ill mannered, inconsiderate and selfish as many people of all generations today.

It seems as though many people just go down to the lowest common denominator because other people are doing it, instead of rising above and doing what's right and decent.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> You should get out more:Hilarious


Can't - we're in lockdown, remember?


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> Can't - we're in lockdown, remember?


:Bag:Bag


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> My husband is of the older generation who are all meant to have voted Tory, Leave and can't see the point of BLM or wearing a mask. He's the opposite of all of these and it's why I hate labels and broad swipes at demographics. People are shared by so much more than age.


This is true....my parents think Donald Trump is a scary psychopathic toddler and yet my brother thinks he is the best thing ever! Goes to show that you can be a moron at any age!LOL

As for those 2 girls being fined/not fined in the papers? I call porky pies on their exercise story. Mainly because who the heck exercises whilst carrying a container of hot tea!?


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> As for those 2 girls being fined/not fined in the papers? I call porky pies on their exercise story. Mainly because who the heck exercises whilst carrying a container of hot tea!?


I have occasionally taken a mug of tea out in the morning when I've walked my dogs, I also take a water bottle out with me in the warmer weather. I think it was ridiculous the way the police over reacted & it seems the women have now received an apology.

Covid: Women fined for going for a walk receive police apology - BBC News


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> I have occasionally taken a mug of tea out in the morning when I've walked my dogs, I also take a water bottle out with me in the warmer weather. I think it was ridiculous the way the police over reacted & it seems the women have now received an apology.
> 
> Covid: Women fined for going for a walk receive police apology - BBC News


I often take a flask of coffee on a walk, especially when it's cold.

I've been deliberately buying a coffee from local independent cafes or vendors instead if I can to support them.

I'm glad their fine was revoked as I think the Police went OTT with them and have actually spoiled the relationship with the public further.

I do now feel, however, that I can't stop and sit a while (SD) with a friend while we drink a coffee (bought or from home) half way round our walk - so I guess it might have influenced the actions of us law abiding citizens (who weren't really the problem in the first place ).


----------



## catz4m8z

Cleo38 said:


> I also take a water bottle out with me in the warmer weather.


water I can understand coz you are exercising and so might get dehydrated...Ive never seen anybody in a gym with peppermint tea though for after their workout!
While I think fining them is abit OTT I still do think they were taking the p*** when it comes to their reason for being out.


----------



## Calvine

Apparently eight gorillas at San Diego Zoo Safari Park have caught the virus from one of their keepers.


----------



## Blackadder

Calvine said:


> Apparently eight gorillas at San Diego Zoo Safari Park have caught the virus from one of their keepers.


Oh no! I bet they're going ape :Facepalm


----------



## Jesthar

And for the next round of pandemic profiteering, I give you Chartwells. They have been contracted by the government to provide food parcels to families that would usually receive free school meals, rather than the family be provided with a supermarket voucher for £30.

This is a comparison of what has been provided with what a £30 supermarket shop looks like:










The Chartwells provisions would cost just over £5 at Asda. It takes a lot to make me cross. This has managed it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We have just had a e-mail from Sanisbury's saying they will not let anyone in if they are't wearing a mask and they are limiting how many people are in their stores at time.


----------



## Siskin

I couldn’t help but notice that the consultant I saw today wore his mask but didn’t cover his nose. Hmmmmmmm


----------



## ForestWomble

Jesthar said:


> And for the next round of pandemic profiteering, I give you Chartwells. They have been contracted by the government to provide food parcels to families that would usually receive free school meals, rather than the family be provided with a supermarket voucher for £30.
> 
> This is a comparison of what has been provided with what a £30 supermarket shop looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chartwells provisions would cost just over £5 at Asda. It takes a lot to make me cross. This has managed it.


 That's disgraceful.


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> We have just had a e-mail from Sanisbury's saying they will not let anyone in if they are't wearing a mask and they are limiting how many people are in their stores at time.


I got that too. I have to say mask wearing compliance where i am is 100% i have never seen a single person in either aldi or sains without a mask since it became mandatory.

However i cant see how this can help anything. Surely they will approach non mask wearers, ask why no mask. They answer "i have a medical reason"

Ok, in you come, then.

On a brighter note, my auntie has had her vaccine! She is the only blood relation i keep contact with (other than my kids)

Last saw her april 2019. Hopefully she will still be living next time we are able to travel down to yorkshire. Will be good


----------



## catz4m8z

Jesthar said:


> The Chartwells provisions would cost just over £5 at Asda. It takes a lot to make me cross. This has managed it.


That is appalling, it def looks like that company is pulling a fast one. At least they are investigating though.


----------



## SbanR

Jesthar said:


> And for the next round of pandemic profiteering, I give you Chartwells. They have been contracted by the government to provide food parcels to families that would usually receive free school meals, rather than the family be provided with a supermarket voucher for £30.
> 
> This is a comparison of what has been provided with what a £30 supermarket shop looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chartwells provisions would cost just over £5 at Asda. It takes a lot to make me cross. This has managed it.


It's on the news now so something will certainly be done.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> I couldn't help but notice that the consultant I saw today wore his mask but didn't cover his nose. Hmmmmmmm


Er....did you point it out to him?
I see that happen a lot. The trouble is so many masks just don't fit snuggly enough across the bridge of the nose, so don't stay in place.
If it slips down it's hard to know what to do as we're told not to keep touching our masks, but we need to push it back up.


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> water I can understand coz you are exercising and so might get dehydrated...Ive never seen anybody in a gym with peppermint tea though for after their workout!
> While I think fining them is abit OTT I still do think they were taking the p*** when it comes to their reason for being out.


No, but walking is still exercise


tabelmabel said:


> I got that too. I have to say mask wearing compliance where i am is 100% i have never seen a single person in either aldi or sains without a mask since it became mandatory.
> 
> However i cant see how this can help anything. Surely they will approach non mask wearers, ask why no mask. They answer "i have a medical reason"
> 
> Ok, in you come, then.
> 
> On a brighter note, my auntie has had her vaccine! She is the only blood relation i keep contact with (other than my kids)
> 
> Last saw her april 2019. Hopefully she will still be living next time we are able to travel down to yorkshire. Will be good


I still think it's worth pointing out the mask requirement to people entering the store.

I went in B&Q the other day and genuinely forget to put mine on.

No staff challenged me but a few shoppers gave me dirty looks and it eventually dawned on me and I put it on straightaway. I felt really bad. I wouldn't have been offended if challenged by staff - just grateful tbh.


----------



## catz4m8z

Lurcherlad said:


> No, but walking is still exercise


an equally good excuse for meeting a few friends down the park!! or having a party.....'well, dancing is exercise innit!!?':Hilarious


----------



## tabelmabel

Lurcherlad said:


> No staff challenged me but a few shoppers gave me dirty looks and it eventually dawned on me and I put it on straightaway. I felt really bad. I wouldn't have been offended if challenged by staff - just grateful tbh.


In that situation i can see it can see how it would be useful. Maybe the cold in Scotland is a reminder in itself! I tend to just put mine on as i leave the house and keep it on at all times as it warms up the air and seems to make me feel warmer!


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Er....did you point it out to him?
> I see that happen a lot. The trouble is so many masks just don't fit snuggly enough across the bridge of the nose, so don't stay in place.
> If it slips down it's hard to know what to do as we're told not to keep touching our masks, but we need to push it back up.


He may be younger then me but I'm rather in awe of him, so no I didn't.


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> In that situation i can see it can see how it would be useful. Maybe the cold in Scotland is a reminder in itself! I tend to just put mine on as i leave the house and keep it on at all times as it warms up the air and seems to make me feel warmer!


At this time of year I just can't wear my glasses at the same time as the warm air from me and the cold air outside makes them mist up. My sight isn't too bad so I manage ok


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> an equally good excuse for meeting a few friends down the park!! or having a party.....'well, dancing is exercise innit!!?':Hilarious


Not much of a rave with just two 60 year old women


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> No, but walking is still exercise
> 
> I still think it's worth spitting out the mask requirement to people entering the store.
> 
> I went in B&Q the other day and genuinely forget to put mine on.
> 
> No staff challenged me but a few shoppers gave me dirty looks and it eventually dawned on me and I put it on straightaway. I felt really bad. I wouldn't have been offended if challenged by staff - just grateful tbh.


I've had stress dreams about that! Going into shops without a mask and catching something


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> At this time of year I just can't wear my glasses at the same time as the warm air from me and the cold air outside makes them mist up. My sight isn't too bad so I manage ok


I bought some adhesive aluminium strips to use with my fabric masks. They stick quite well and are easy to peel off when you want to wash the masks. You can get a good seal around the bridge of the nose with them and I rarely get steamed up glasses and the mask stays in place.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> i have a medical reason


 What are the ''medical reasons'', in fact? I bumped into a neighbour (not literally) in Tesco and she immediately said she could not wear a mask as she was asthmatic (not wearing anything to inform anyone of this). I have no medical background whatsoever, but would have thought that an asthmatic person would be extra careful to protect themselves from a virus which seems to affect the lungs/ breathing etc. Some people wear a kind of badge so people know they have a reason for being exempt - makes little difference anyway, so many people have them over their chin.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> What are the ''medical reasons'', in fact? I bumped into a neighbour (not literally) in Tesco and she immediately said she could not wear a mask as she was asthmatic (not wearing anything to inform anyone of this). I have no medical background whatsoever, but would have thought that an asthmatic person would be extra careful to protect themselves from a virus which seems to affect the lungs/ breathing etc. Some people wear a kind of badge so people know they have a reason for being exempt - makes little difference anyway, so many people have them over their chin.


Surely a visor would be required instead in that scenario then, rather than nothing at all?


----------



## kittih

Calvine said:


> What are the ''medical reasons'', in fact? I bumped into a neighbour (not literally) in Tesco and she immediately said she could not wear a mask as she was asthmatic (not wearing anything to inform anyone of this). I have no medical background whatsoever, but would have thought that an asthmatic person would be extra careful to protect themselves from a virus which seems to affect the lungs/ breathing etc. Some people wear a kind of badge so people know they have a reason for being exempt - makes little difference anyway, so many people have them over their chin.


I don't think you can specify the range of medical conditions. Some asthmatics might find wearing a mask is fine, some may not. Similarly those with COPD and other respiratory conditions. For some individuals the act of having a restriction over the mouth may be an issue. I have heard that some individuals on the autistic spectrum or those with sensory issues may find wearing masks difficult though others may not.

I am an extremely mild asthmatic and have no issues wearing a mask but a few months ago I found myself in the supermarket desperately wanting to take the mask off when I had a panic attack ( something I have only experienced a couple of times in my life before). It was all psychological for me but wearing a mask at that particular moment made me feel as if I was suffocating.


----------



## Happy Paws2

If you can't wear a mask surely you can wear a plastic face shield.


----------



## kittih

Happy Paws2 said:


> If you can't wear a mask surely you can wear a plastic face shield.


Plastic face shields do restrict large airborne particles emitted from the mouth and nose from being propelled forwards. They don't restrict air containing smaller saliva particles from being emitted downwards or sidewards from the wearer so are a lot less effective than someone wearing a fabric or surgical mask.

However they might be a compromise for someone unable to wear a face mask.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kittih said:


> Plastic face shields do restrict large airborne particles emitted from the mouth and nose from being propelled forwards. They don't restrict air containing smaller saliva particles from being emitted downwards or sidewards from the wearer so are a lot less effective than someone wearing a fabric or surgical mask.
> 
> *However they might be a compromise for someone unable to wear a face mask.*


That's what I thought, anything is better than nothing,


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> If you can't wear a mask surely you can wear a plastic face shield.


I would have thought so, but then I am not asthmatic, nor are my family.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely a visor would be required instead in that scenario then, rather than nothing at all?


 I would have thought so. On the bus yesterday, group of three got on, none wearing a mask; I found it hard to believe they all had a problem, but the driver said nothing (no mask himself).


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> He may be younger then me but I'm rather in awe of him, so no I didn't.


I do actually feel sympathetic towards people who, due to profession, wear a mask for most of the day.
Even for the relatively short amount of time I need to wear one, I tend to push it off my face if there is nobody around, as I get claustrophobic and can't breathe. As soon as I approach someone I pull my mask up.


----------



## tabelmabel

@Calvine - please dont pick bits out of my posts to twist their meaning! I am extremely compliant with rules and, I _never _forget my mask.

Quoting my post in the way you have implies that i am not wearing a mask because i have a medical reason.



Calvine said:


> What are the ''medical reasons'', in fact? I bumped into a neighbour (not literally) in Tesco


Medical reasons not immediately apparent can include autism which can cause sensory difficulties and the feeling of a mask could be intolerable.

Learning difficulties again where someone might not be able to tolerate the sensation and not have the comprehension to understand why mask wearing is important.

Anxiety issues where people could have a panic attack triggered by having the mouth and nose covered.

Im sure many other reasons too. This is the trouble - the reasons might not be obvious or apparent. In scotland it just goes on honesty - does it need to be proven in England?

It could work if you need to carry proof i suppose.


----------



## mrs phas

kittih said:


> I have heard that some individuals on the autistic spectrum or those with sensory issues may find wearing masks difficult though others may not.


My eldest, who is on the spectrum, has worked for 15 yrs at the same supermarket, never had a complaint, 
since mask wearing came in, he's had numerous complaints 
Like many on the spectrum he has a problem with volume control, he either speaks normally, or, if asked to speak up, he shouts 
His manager fixed the problem by allowing him to wear a lanyard, with his autism card attached 
Things are now back to normal 
He still wears a mask in every other situation though, he says he refuses to be responsible for someone else's life (spectrum thinking)
So it's not even always about the feeling of wearing a mask, or any health problems a person may have 
I have though, said before, there's at least two ladies, maybe more now, that have oxygen attached to the back of their scooters, and so wear shields
My thoughts still are 
If you're too medically paired to wear a mask, should you actually be out at all?
That, in itself, puts more pressure on the NHS, you might not get covid (cos your DX fends it off )
but, surely, you are in danger of exacerbating your day to day problems


----------



## tabelmabel

Siskin said:


> At this time of year I just can't wear my glasses at the same time as the warm air from me and the cold air outside makes them mist up. My sight isn't too bad so I manage ok


My eyes are shocking - first thing i do on getting up is put my glasses on - seriously i cant get to the bathroom without them, it's that bad!!

Wash your specs in soapy water and air dry. Then push the metal bits of mask down so that your glasses sit over the mask. Problem solved

I love my mask. Think i might just keep it on when this is over, nice and toasty in winter!


----------



## mrs phas

kittih said:


> Plastic face shields do restrict large airborne particles emitted from the mouth and nose from being propelled forwards. They don't restrict air containing smaller saliva particles from being emitted downwards or sidewards from the wearer so are a lot less effective than someone wearing a fabric or surgical mask.
> 
> However they might be a compromise for someone unable to wear a face mask.


This is why in hospitals,ICU especially, you'll often see drs and nurses wearing visors AND masks together


----------



## ebonycat

After spending two weeks in my local hospital in May last year & then another two weeks in hospital in June, trips up to London Brompton hospital for so many tests I was finally diagnosed with a lung disease.
I was constantly tested for Covid while in hospital & when I visited Brompton hospital. I tested positive for flu in May but I kept testing negative for Covid but after my local consultations & London consultants had meetings to discuss my scans & tests results they believe I may of had Covid at around March time, when I first started experiencing breathlessness. And so they think when I was in hospital in May the Covid test would/ could have given a false negative or I could have tested negative because I was then clear of Covid.

It’s baffled my Drs, as it came on all of a sudden, after I had a really bad cough.
I’ve always been active, fit. Never smoked, don’t drink.

But I’ve spent from May last year to now on oxygen at home & have to carry oxygen around with me if I leave my house.

As I have a lung disease I'm clinically extremely vulnerable, so I only leave my house if I really have too.
I’m exempt from having to wear a mask & could wear a face shield but I don’t feel safe wearing one.
My oxygen is connected to a nasal cannula so wearing a mask as well is hard to cope with but I feel safer wearing it. I also have the problem that as I wear glasses (very bad eyesight) if I go into a supermarket (hardly ever as I have home delivery), or my chemist, my glasses steam up. I also have Asperger’s so I do suffer anxiety a lot.

How I see it I don’t want to pass on Covid to anyone else nor do I want it.
Wearing a mask I feel safer, I don’t rarely go out but there’s sometimes when I have no choice but too pop out.


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> My thoughts still are
> If you're too medically paired to wear a mask, should you actually be out at all?
> That, in itself, puts more pressure on the NHS, you might not get covid (cos your DX fends it off )
> but, surely, you are in danger of exacerbating your day to day problems


I suppose it depends on whether you have a support network to help with shopping etc or can get shopping deliveries as not everyone can for all sorts of reasons.

Also I think for some a trip to the shop is their only chance to physically see another human being even if socially distanced. Whilst it isn't probably sensible from a infection point if view it may help with their mental health.

Living alone I must admit my weekly highlights are going to Tesco just before closing and going into the almost empty office once a week to provide cover even though both activities increase my risk of Covid.


----------



## ebonycat

tabelmabel said:


> My eyes are shocking - first thing i do on getting up is put my glasses on - seriously i cant get to the bathroom without them, it's that bad!!
> 
> Wash your specs in soapy water and air dry. Then push the metal bits of mask down so that your glasses sit over the mask. Problem solved
> 
> I love my mask. Think i might just keep it on when this is over, nice and toasty in winter!


I can't see a thing without my glasses, before I step out of bed I have to put them on.

I do wash my glasses with soapy water as some of my nurses have told me to do.


----------



## kittih

mrs phas said:


> This is why in hospitals,ICU especially, you'll often see drs and nurses wearing visors AND masks together


As I understand it from BMJ studies a possible infection route is via the eyes or viral particles being deposited on the facial skin and then being transferred to the eyes or mucosa from touch.

I can imagine in a medical or care setting where medical practitioners have to get close to patients or carry out tasks where there are a lot of exhaled aerosols like intubation etc that wearing a face shield or goggles is imperative together with a mask.


----------



## ebonycat

kittih said:


> I suppose it depends on whether you have a support network to help with shopping etc or can get shopping deliveries as not everyone can for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> Also I think for some a trip to the shop is their only chance to physically see another human being even if socially distanced. Whilst it isn't probably sensible from a infection point if view it may help with their mental health.
> 
> Living alone I must admit my weekly highlights are going to Tesco just before closing and going into the almost empty office once a week to provide cover even though both activities increase my risk of Covid.


What you said is completely right.
My weekly trip into my chemist, which is just across the road from my house, is the only time I get to see anyone (other than my mum who I don't live with).
I get there just before they open at 8.30am to be first in line.
I get to talk to the ladies in the chemist who I've got to know really well & who look out for me/ care about me.
It brightens my week. I know it sounds silly but it makes me feel positive, they cheer me up & it makes me feel I can carry on getting through each day.


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> My eyes are shocking - first thing i do on getting up is put my glasses on - seriously i cant get to the bathroom without them, it's that bad!!
> 
> Wash your specs in soapy water and air dry. Then push the metal bits of mask down so that your glasses sit over the mask. Problem solved
> 
> I love my mask. Think i might just keep it on when this is over, nice and toasty in winter!


My glasses are quite narrow so as high as I have the mask the bottom of the glasses doesn't go very much over the mask. I manage ok without them so it's no bother


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I would have thought so. On the bus yesterday, group of three got on, none wearing a mask; I found it hard to believe they all had a problem, but the driver said nothing (no mask himself).


Our buses have Perspex boxes round the driver (though I would have the window down and a mask on myself if it were me).

There is also a sign at the entrance stating that drivers don't have to wear one.

Saw this from outside - I'm lucky not to have to actually get in one at the moment.


----------



## MilleD

kittih said:


> I bought some adhesive aluminium strips to use with my fabric masks. They stick quite well and are easy to peel off when you want to wash the masks. You can get a good seal around the bridge of the nose with them and I rarely get steamed up glasses and the mask stays in place.
> 
> View attachment 459983


Those are what I put in the masks I make.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> What are the ''medical reasons'', in fact? I bumped into a neighbour (not literally) in Tesco and she immediately said she could not wear a mask as she was asthmatic (not wearing anything to inform anyone of this). I have no medical background whatsoever, but would have thought that an asthmatic person would be extra careful to protect themselves from a virus which seems to affect the lungs/ breathing etc. Some people wear a kind of badge so people know they have a reason for being exempt - makes little difference anyway, so many people have them over their chin.


I'm asthmatic, I don't have a problem wearing a mask, but I also wouldn't want to go somewhere that could expose me to people NOT wearing one.

I call bull on an awful lot of people's reasons, sorry. I'm sure there are some valid ones, but there seem to be so many people saying they are exempt, that can't possibly be true.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> We have just had a e-mail from Sanisbury's saying they will not let anyone in if they are't wearing a mask and they are limiting how many people are in their stores at time.


More supermarkets are joining this.

I still don't understand how they are going to check people are actually exempt though.

Waitrose, Asda and Tesco join Morrisons and Sainsbury's in mask-wearing clampdown | Evening Standard


----------



## Jacqueline. Kidd

kimthecat said:


> It seems this is spreading. I'm a bit worried as I'm immunocompromised due to the meds I take. I shall have to start wearing a mask


I live in Western Australia and when they first few COVID showed up we went into priority lock down and followed the infection control and followed infection control as advised. Not one person is in hospiitsal. There are a few travellers stuck in iso. Our government and citizens were quick to act and life is normal. Is it really that bad wearing.a mask when when death is the worse outcome


----------



## Jacqueline. Kidd

MilleD said:


> I'm asthmatic, I don't have a problem wearing a mask, but I also wouldn't want to go somewhere that could expose me to people NOT wearing one.
> 
> I call bull on an awful lot of people's reasons, sorry. I'm sure there are some valid ones, but there seem to be so many people saying they are exempt, that can't possibly be true.[/Q
> 
> Have you heard about the. reason called* DEATH*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jacqueline. Kidd said:


> I live in Western Australia and when they first few COVID showed up we went into priority lock down and followed the infection control and followed infection control as advised. Not one person is in hospiitsal. There are a few travellers stuck in iso. Our government and citizens were quick to act and life is normal. *Is it really that bad wearing.a mask when when death is the worse outcome*


Hello and  to PF

That's what I don't understand, what harm does it do to you to wear a mask and save a life.


----------



## MilleD

Jacqueline. Kidd said:


>


What are you on about?


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I'm asthmatic, I don't have a problem wearing a mask, but I also wouldn't want to go somewhere that could expose me to people NOT wearing one.
> 
> I call bull on an awful lot of people's reasons, sorry. I'm sure there are some valid ones, but there seem to be so many people saying they are exempt, that can't possibly be true.


Yes, like the two electricians (council contracted) who came in with no ppe, despite me wearing a mask, and when questioned said they had asthma and laughed. Hope the ciggies he was carrying choked him!!


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> More supermarkets are joining this.
> 
> I still don't understand how they are going to check people are actually exempt though.
> 
> Waitrose, Asda and Tesco join Morrisons and Sainsbury's in mask-wearing clampdown | Evening Standard


Even if they have written proof there's no guarantee it's real.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Yes, like the two electricians (council contracted) who came in with no ppe, despite me wearing a mask, and when questioned said they had asthma and laughed. Hope the ciggies he was carrying choked him!!


Did you tell the council? I'd have refused entry.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Did you tell the council? I'd have refused entry.


What's the point when the company they work for all seem to have the same attitude. I just wont allow them access again without ppe. If I can wear it to protect them then I expect reciprocation.
Sadly the council here are worse than a chocolate teapot. I reported a simple repair to my kitchen light over a week ago and was told it would be put through as an emergency. Still waiting! And that's just one of many examples of poor service from them. It's not just me moaning either. Half the problem is lack of communication.
I know you may see things with a different view, working for your local council. Unfortunately not all of them are as efficient as yours.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> What's the point when the company they work for all seem to have the same attitude. I just wont allow them access again without ppe. If I can wear it to protect them then I expect reciprocation.
> Sadly the council here are worse than a chocolate teapot. I reported a simple repair to my kitchen light over a week ago and was told it would be put through as an emergency. Still waiting! And that's just one of many examples of poor service from them. It's not just me moaning either. Half the problem is lack of communication.
> I know you may see things with a different view, working for your local council. Unfortunately not all of them are as efficient as yours.


I work for a county council so they don't deal with housing so I have no idea how that is run around here.

As a landlord myself, I understand how frustrating it is if you aren't getting anywhere with things that affect your home.

Just this morning, one of my tenants has reported that the sparker on her hob is intermittent. I've immediately sent her a sparker clicker to light it so she doesn't need to be dealing with matches or anything and am looking into getting someone to go have a look.

It's a shame the council's don't seem to work like that, but private landlords still get all the stick


----------



## Blackadder

I've just been for a Covid test... cough & strange sense of smell, I had to do it myself & it's not pleasant! I've got to say that if it comes back positive I'll be bloody annoyed (excuse the language)


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I work for a county council so they don't deal with housing so I have no idea how that is run around here.
> 
> As a landlord myself, I understand how frustrating it is if you aren't getting anywhere with things that affect your home.
> 
> Just this morning, one of my tenants has reported that the sparker on her hob is intermittent. I've immediately sent her a sparker clicker to light it so she doesn't need to be dealing with matches or anything and am looking into getting someone to go have a look.
> 
> It's a shame the council's don't seem to work like that, but private landlords still get all the stick


Programs like Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords don't help as decent landlords get tarred with the same brush as the awful ones. Then again, it's informative, to see what both sides have to put up with, so a bit 50/50.
Considering this is sheltered accommodation the support from the council is worse than useless. I do appreciate that covid has thrown a spanner in the works of efficiency, but here they seem to be hiding behind covid as an excuse for lack of care and support. It really is a case of "pull the ladder up Jack".


----------



## Cully

Blackadder said:


> I've just been for a Covid test... cough & strange sense of smell, I had to do it myself & it's not pleasant! I've got to say that if it comes back positive I'll be bloody annoyed (excuse the language)


Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Can you pinpoint who might have infected you?


----------



## Blackadder

No Idea where (if) I got it, I only personally know of one person tested positive & that was before xmas! Then again I deliver all over the midlands & north west so who knows?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Blackadder said:


> I've just been for a Covid test... cough & strange sense of smell, I had to do it myself & it's not pleasant! I've got to say that if it comes back positive I'll be bloody annoyed (excuse the language)


Fingers crossed your OK.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Yes, like the two electricians (council contracted) who came in with no ppe, despite me wearing a mask, and when questioned said they had asthma and laughed. Hope the ciggies he was carrying choked him!!


I would have reported them.


----------



## Blackadder

Happy Paws2 said:


> Fingers crossed your OK.


Thank you  I'm sure I'll be fine, I'm only late 50's so shouldn't be at risk.


----------



## kimthecat

kimthecat said: ↑
It seems this is spreading. I'm a bit worried as I'm immunocompromised due to the meds I take. I shall have to start wearing a mask 



Jacqueline. Kidd said:


> I. Is it really that bad wearing.a mask when when death is the worse outcome


You've replied to an old post from January last year . I put that as a joke . Yes I do wear a mask and have been for some time .

Australia have done very well dealing with this.


----------



## tabelmabel

Blackadder said:


> I'm only late 50's so shouldn't be at risk.


I do hope you are ok but this is a misconception. With the original strain, anyone over 45 was at higher risk and with this new variant many people in intensive care are only in their 30s and 40s.

Maybe this misbelief is why people wont stay in. If we all totally understood that nipping into the shop for a tin of beans could kill us in the most unpleasant way, we would actually heed the advice and stay in.

I know you are needing to go out for your work @Blackadder as do many others but there are a heck of a lot of others that dont need to be out half as much as they are.

You are at risk of being extremely ill in your 50s. And dying. Let's not beat around the bush.

Those under 35ish in good health probably dont need to weigh up the risk of getting a virus that will leave them gasping for breath (which is terrifying) everytime they step out.

But the rest of us do. And ask ourselves, is this trip out absolutely necessary?

Get out, do what you need to do, and get back in again.

Im just seeing folk standing about chatting where i am. And many of them are old. Over 60 or 70 for sure.

The expert here in Scotand (linda bauld) says that 2metres is not sufficient to stop us getting this new variant even outdoors.


----------



## Bisbow

Blackadder said:


> I've just been for a Covid test... cough & strange sense of smell, I had to do it myself & it's not pleasant! I've got to say that if it comes back positive I'll be bloody annoyed (excuse the language)


Hope all is well with you and if you do have it it is very mild for you and you soon recover


----------



## rona

Blackadder said:


> I've just been for a Covid test... cough & strange sense of smell, I had to do it myself & it's not pleasant! I've got to say that if it comes back positive I'll be bloody annoyed (excuse the language)


Hoping it comes back negative.
Do you live on your own or is there family to worry about?


----------



## ebonycat

MilleD said:


> I'm asthmatic, I don't have a problem wearing a mask, but I also wouldn't want to go somewhere that could expose me to people NOT wearing one.
> 
> I call bull on an awful lot of people's reasons, sorry. I'm sure there are some valid ones, but there seem to be so many people saying they are exempt, that can't possibly be true.


I completely agree with you.

Even though I'm exempt because I wear a nasal cannula for oxygen & have a lung disease, the times I do go out of my house (hardly at all), I wouldn't feel safe not wearing a mask.
I see so many people not wearing them, as you say they can't all be exempt. I just don't believe them.


----------



## ebonycat

@Blackadder I truly hope your test comes back negative x


----------



## ebonycat

My mum who retired ten years ago is still in contact with a couple of her ex work colleagues/ friends.
One of them phoned her a week or so before Christmas to say that her very close friend was admitted into our local hospital with Covid.
Two nights ago we were told that she had died 
I didn’t know her, think I’ve met her once or twice years ago.
She was in her early 70’s.
Mums friend is completely devastated.
My mum only goes out if she really has too, wears a mask as soon as she leaves her house, constantly washes her hands, she’s always watching the news regarding Covid & is extra careful but this has really shaken her up.


----------



## mrs phas

My son has just sent me this photo, of an Essex dart minibus, that has shipped in customers to our (Suffolk small town) Aldi.

He said he watched about 15 old women (his words) get off, with their granny trollies and bags
It's not even from a local town/village, the area code is Maldon, which is a good 30 miles away, a round trip of 60 miles!
So much for staying local


----------



## mrs phas

Double post


----------



## MilleD

ebonycat said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> Even though I'm exempt because I wear a nasal cannula for oxygen & have a lung disease, the times I do go out of my house (hardly at all), I wouldn't feel safe not wearing a mask.
> I see so many people not wearing them, as you say they can't all be exempt. I just don't believe them.


Now that is a valid reason! But you are sensible, and would still do it.

The people you see not wearing them I just think are taking the pee most of the time.


----------



## ebonycat

mrs phas said:


> My son has just sent me this photo, of an Essex dart minibus, that has shipped in customers to our (Suffolk small town) Aldi.
> 
> He said he watched about 15 old women (his words) get off, with their granny trollies and bags
> It's not even from a local town/village, the area code is Maldon, which is a good 30 miles away, a round trip of 60 miles!
> So much for staying local


Lost for words 

Actually no I'm not....... why would you do this??
Why would a company lay on a minibus for a trip not only so far away but any trip?
We have shops in Essex.
Why would 'older' women do this trip?

I've never really understood some people ( I have Asperger, so I'm not very good at understanding them anyway ) but oh gosh are people really this stupid??
Everyday we've been hearing of our hospital's are struggling, ICU's are full, the daily death rate keeps rising, going into lockdown's.
Not just in our country but worldwide.

Can't people get it into their heads Covid is killing people.
This isn't a game, Covid isn't just 'flu', yes for some people it might effect them like a really bad flu but for others it could kill them.

Some people really do pee me off 

Sorry for the rant


----------



## MilleD

mrs phas said:


> My son has just sent me this photo, of an Essex dart minibus, that has shipped in customers to our (Suffolk small town) Aldi.
> 
> He said he watched about 15 old women (his words) get off, with their granny trollies and bags
> It's not even from a local town/village, the area code is Maldon, which is a good 30 miles away, a round trip of 60 miles!
> So much for staying local


They are a community transport hub. You have no idea where these people have come from - and like everyone keeps saying, they probably have a reason to be needing to go shopping.

Demand Responsive Transport (DaRT) | Essex County Council (essexhighways.org)


----------



## ebonycat

MilleD said:


> They are a community transport hub. You have no idea where these people have come from - and like everyone keeps saying, they probably have a reason to be needing to go shopping.
> 
> Demand Responsive Transport (DaRT) | Essex County Council (essexhighways.org)


Ah, so they could be local??


----------



## MilleD

ebonycat said:


> Ah, so they could be local??


The people could be yes.


----------



## Cully

I've just received one of those letters asking me to take part in the covid home antibody testing.
I'll probably do it, if I'm eligible. Will be interesting to see the result.


----------



## tabelmabel

mrs phas said:


> He said he watched about 15 old women (his words) get off, with their granny trollies and bags


It doesn't surprise me tbh. I think some elderly people just would rather take the risk, thinking that is the only life quality they have, especially if they live alone - their need to see others tops all.

And then there are the 70 yr old marathan runners that feel fitter than they did at 30. What they fail to understand is that, no matter how fit you are, your immunity _always _declines with age.

So your marathon running 70yr old is more likely to catch this than the obese 30 yr old smoker that cant climb a flight of stairs without huffing and puffing.

Though i expect a fit 70 yr old would have a better chance of recovery than one whose heart and lungs are already compromised.

I was chatting on the phone to my auntie about this. She is 85 and on her own but she manages well as she has a lot of interests she can be getting on with. She is an educated person and still has her wits about her. She just thinks some elderly folk have nothing in their lives and struggle on their own so have to get out.

My mother in law is 75 and really struggles on her own as she doesn't have any hobbies to keep her busy. All her activities were based around lunching with friends.

Very sadly, her best friend and neighbour that she was bubbled with died of cancer at christmas. 2 weeks from diagnosis to death.

My mum in law has taken un necessary risks right through this just to get some social contact. Suddenly she decided she needed workmen in to fix tiny things and do odd jobs that really were not urgent at all. She just doesnt have those inner resources to fall back on and doesnt fully 'get it'

Im very strict and limited in the risks i personally take as i do 100% believe that i am one of these people who wouldnt fare too well if i got it and i have my 13yr old to think of but so many others really dont seem to be able to cope with the lockdown constraints at all. I think this is why the experts are now looking to support people through it now as this punitive way isnt working.

I also think i am helped in having had a couple of asthma attacks (related to out of control allergies; i dont have asthma) because i know how scary it is not being able to breathe. It is terrifying, really is.

I look at the news and see the pics of folk strolling about with coffee cups in hand and I cant relate to it at all. Is that stroll about really worth the price of death? I saw pics from a packed out beach earlier this week. Do people usually flock to the beaches on cold january days?!

If i didnt have dogs to walk, i wouldnt bother going out at all most days. Stay in stay safe.


----------



## rona

The World is Closed
They said the world was closed today
So I went to have a look,
I found it with the shutters down
And the phone was off the hook.
So I stood there for a little while
But no one was around,
Then silence came and startled me
With the most alarming sound.
I asked him where the others were,
And why the streets were bare,
He whispered ‘Life had ran away
While death was playing there’
‘Oh no’ I said ‘It can’t be true
For life is not afraid’
‘But no one ever goes’ he said
‘Where death has ever played.’
I understood and walked away
As Hope was standing there
With Courage in her afterglow
And the sunlight in her hair.
She said ‘Go home to those you love
This is no place to be,
For if we walk these streets today
Then no one shall be free’.
She threw her light to lead the way
And showed me where to go,
The very road that life had gone
Where the future flowers grow.
Then death showed me another way
But I didn’t want to look,
So I stumbled home in time for tea
And I read another book.
It was called The World is Closed Today
And the streets we shouldn’t roam,
The first line said ‘Just please be safe’
And the ending - ‘Stay at Home’
Author Unknown


----------



## mrs phas

ebonycat said:


> Ah, so they could be local??


I doubt it
This is the information re Essex on demand transport, our town isn't on their routes (even in normal times)
Our town doesn't even appear on the Suffolk link service either (Suffolk equivalent)
We have to fund raise, every year, for the local GoStart mini bus, driven and maintained by volunteers, which runs local, and as far as hospital, for those who need it

https://www.essexhighways.org/getti...ansport/demand-responsive-transport-dart.aspx

Sorry I got distracted by neighbour...
Edit to add 
Not being privy to district, or, county council machinations, I'm willing to take into account that either may have contracted out to other bus companies, due to the world being as it is


----------



## Lurcherlad

.


----------



## Blackadder

rona said:


> Hoping it comes back negative.
> Do you live on your own or is there family to worry about?


There's Mrs BA & my youngest (25yo) Mrs BA is tested every week due to her job + she had her 1st vaccination 3 weeks ago so "should" have some protection!


----------



## kittih

tabelmabel said:


> I also think i am helped in having had a couple of asthma attacks (related to out of control allergies; i dont have asthma) because i know how scary it is not being able to breathe. It is terrifying, really is.


You make a good point with this. Having had asthma attacks where I struggled to breathe and also having had bacterial pneumonia , knowing what it feels like to struggle to breathe makes me want to avoid catching this disease. Trying to draw in air when your lungs arent working properly is terrifying.

What makes covid worse somehow is that the feedback to the brain that you have low oxygen levels doesn't always work properly (silent hypoxia) so you can become dangerously impaired without realising it.


----------



## tabelmabel

Scotland is tightening restrictions from Saturday around take aways and click and collect.

Doesnt seem to be any mileage limit on or any change to meeting up with someone else from another household yet which is surprising.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Scotland is tightening restrictions from Saturday around take aways and click and collect.
> 
> Doesnt seem to be any mileage limit on or any change to meeting up with someone else from another household yet which is surprising.


Take away no thanks someone sneezing and coughing over your food.


----------



## tabelmabel

Sounds like scotland is putting the stoppers on outdoor queues.

When some of the pics came on our news from England with the elderly people queuing for their vaccines outside a clinic, i couldnt believe what i was seeing - surely by queuing they are at risk of catching it in the queue . . .hopefully that was just to make a story and most clinics have a better arrangement with appointments per person.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> please dont pick bits out of my posts to twist their meaning!


I *never* pick bits out of people's posts to change their meaning, though I have had it done to my posts on numerous occasions. I genuinely do not know what reasons there are for being exempt do you?). My neighbour told me asthma was hers and I have no idea what the others may be as I have not seen a list of possible reasons, and whatever the reasons are, it seems that wearing a mask cannot be enforced. I simply said that with a respiratory condition such as asthma I would have thought the sufferer would prefer to wear a mask: I hope this answers your accusation. If it doesn't, I really cannot help you.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> Take away no thanks


Agree - it's not necessary.


----------



## Nonnie

Wouldnt mind them banning take away coffees.

Fed up of seeing people milling around weird places with a disposable cup that then gets chucked in the undergrowth.

I find people that go for dog walks with a coffee just annoying in general.


----------



## Siskin

Weird how this virus is attacking people. Just had an email convo with a friend in Essex and he says that their neighbours have had covid. The man who is very overweight drinks and smokes just felt a bit poorly whereas his wife who is slim and doesn’t drink is very ill currently. Our neighbour who is mid 60’s and is fit and slim, just felt off colour and a bit headachy.


----------



## daveos

Oh no a new strain has appeared Brazil cover scientists very concerned not sure how it will affect vaccine.
Will this ever end I have seriously had enough so stressed my family are starting to get vaccinated now this more worry really wish all air travel stoped except freight.


----------



## tabelmabel

@Calvine - you took out a small portion of my post, totally out of context.

You quote appears to say

Tabelmabel says

"I have a medical reason"

Well tabelmabel does NOT have a medical reason and does wear a mask.

I did provide 3 possible scenarios where someone might be upset at a valid challenge:

Anxiety

Autism

Learning difficulties.

Other posters also highlighted and explained some reasons.


----------



## daveos

Boris says he is not going to have a travel ban on Brazil is he STUPID so many variants it is like a perfect disease adapts so fast looks like China know more than they are letting on look how they blocked WHO from visiting something is not right about all of this hope they are found out it is like a act of war.


----------



## Calvine

tabelmabel said:


> well tabelmabel does NOT have a medical reason and does wear a mask.


 OK, I believe you. I wear a mask too . . . millions of people do. I will stick to the pet forums from now on as anything else brings out the worst in many people (like the Brexit threads). Good luck with the nit-picking. I won't be seeing any more of your posts as you will be on ignore.


----------



## Blackadder

daveos said:


> Oh no a new strain has appeared Brazil cover scientists very concerned not sure how it will affect vaccine.
> Will this ever end I have seriously had enough so stressed my family are starting to get vaccinated now this more worry really wish all air travel stoped except freight.





daveos said:


> Boris says he is not going to have a travel ban on Brazil is he STUPID so many variants it is like a perfect disease adapts so fast looks like China know more than they are letting on look how they blocked WHO from visiting something is not right about all of this hope they are found out it is like a act of war.


@daveos you really need to try & calm down, the vast majority of people getting covid suffer mild symptoms. Try to chill a bit, getting stressed doesn't help! Do your bit, wear your mask, stay away from people...there's nothing more you can really do.


----------



## JoanneF

Why am I watching news reports with outside broadcast presenters standing outside next to places like the Scottish Parliament, Westminster, Glasgow Cathedral, the BBC centre in Glasgow? Surely that isn't necessary travel?

I haven't even been paying close attention.


----------



## rona

So, 5 days walks with the dog after a little drive, about 8 hours walked, 22-28 miles. Saw 11 people the whole time, none within 3 meters.

This afternoon 40 mins around home,approx 1.25 miles, 36 people 2-4 meters away from me and I had to dodge several. And it was raining!
I know what I'd rather do


----------



## MollySmith

Horsey car park closed 
https://www.norfolk.police.uk/news/...-JzYBVhxSL3lIb6DeGlGRxPQ6FP7g6uSBbaBA8f6J8DoQ


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> And for the next round of pandemic profiteering, I give you Chartwells. They have been contracted by the government to provide food parcels to families that would usually receive free school meals, rather than the family be provided with a supermarket voucher for £30.
> 
> This is a comparison of what has been provided with what a £30 supermarket shop looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chartwells provisions would cost just over £5 at Asda. It takes a lot to make me cross. This has managed it.


Bit more here from our veg supplier, who was also on BBC today speaking about the wider issue @Jesthar . Jack Monroe, the bootstrap cook on Twitter was collecting photos of other boxes also grim.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day. 

I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day.
> 
> I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


It is scary but hopefully it means you will get the vaccine sooner with your letter. Stay safe.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day.
> 
> I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


 Ive not had the letter yet. I had an email on 7th Jan saying the email replaced the last letter I had in December regarding Tier 4.
Im the same as you . clinically extremely vulnerable but in the email it says

"Clinically extremely vulnerable people are advised to stay at home as much as possible. You can still go outdoors carefully to exercise or to attend health appointments."

I will have to see if I get a letter . very confusing.


----------



## catz4m8z

Boxer123 said:


> Take away no thanks someone sneezing and coughing over your food.


Im willing to take the risk for pizza!!LOL Luckily its just a ban on going inside take aways, I think they can still deliver. If you BCA or dont know how to cook take aways are brill.

At least it seems that infection rates are now dropping thanks to the lockdown....even if death rates are still very high (we are still dealing with the xmas/new year surge after all). Seems like every new patient I see has covid pneumonia. Its weird to have to worry about your oxygen supply as well. Not that we are running out or anything! but we are using so much you have to be constantly assessing people to make sure you arent wasting it! 
I might as well be saying to people, 'turn that down...oxygen doesnt grow on trees you know!!' lol:Hilarious

Been talking to a few staff members from the high dependency wards too the last couple of days. Its not so bad for me as my ward is lower dependency covid meaning people are either expected to recover with meds and abit of oxygen or would not be suitable for resuscitation so are treated on the ward and sadly pass away with us.
For the higher dependency areas though they have even more stress and trauma around dealing with patients and relatives, younger healthier people dying, staffing shortages being more dangerous. I cant help worrying about the state of the NHS after this is over... will we see staff with mental health issues because of it? how many will decide to retire early or just quit for other jobs? I really dont think the danger to the NHS will be over with the pandemic.


----------



## Blackadder

MollySmith said:


> Horsey car park closed
> https://www.norfolk.police.uk/news/...-JzYBVhxSL3lIb6DeGlGRxPQ6FP7g6uSBbaBA8f6J8DoQ


Absolute nonsense  Guidance is exactly that, it's not law... if they want to make it law then make it so & put it in the regulations! Stay at home, yeah ok... see @rona post above


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> Im willing to take the risk for pizza!!LOL Luckily its just a ban on going inside take aways, I think they can still deliver. If you BCA or dont know how to cook take aways are brill.
> 
> At least it seems that infection rates are now dropping thanks to the lockdown....even if death rates are still very high (we are still dealing with the xmas/new year surge after all). Seems like every new patient I see has covid pneumonia. Its weird to have to worry about your oxygen supply as well. Not that we are running out or anything! but we are using so much you have to be constantly assessing people to make sure you arent wasting it!
> I might as well be saying to people, 'turn that down...oxygen doesnt grow on trees you know!!' lol:Hilarious
> 
> Been talking to a few staff members from the high dependency wards too the last couple of days. Its not so bad for me as my ward is lower dependency covid meaning people are either expected to recover with meds and abit of oxygen or would not be suitable for resuscitation so are treated on the ward and sadly pass away with us.
> For the higher dependency areas though they have even more stress and trauma around dealing with patients and relatives, younger healthier people dying, staffing shortages being more dangerous. I cant help worrying about the state of the NHS after this is over... will we see staff with mental health issues because of it? how many will decide to retire early or just quit for other jobs? I really dont think the danger to the NHS will be over with the pandemic.


Thank you a million times for all you and your colleagues do. I just don't think we have enough words to say enough but know it's heartfelt.

I worry too, my beautiful god daughter is working as a trainee in a operating theatre and they were going to send her home along with the others but she's been fast tracked into working. She has autism and I'm so bloody proud of her. We chat most days and the exhaustion in her voice is palpable but she's thriving in being useful, she's not dealing with Covid patients but as you doubtless know, she's taking the overflow in a team way. But it's unspeakably tough for her and all the staff there.

I desperately hope that people will interrogate their MPs, pore over manifestos and really understand what their actions mean for this most incredible and amazing NHS. The heroes aren't found in Westminster.


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day.
> 
> I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


I have had the same letter not that it makes any difference to the way I live at the moment
Even though I have had both jabs I am still staying in and keeping away from people


----------



## MollySmith

Blackadder said:


> Absolute nonsense  Guidance is exactly that, it's not law... if they want to make it law then make it so & put it in the regulations! Stay at home, yeah ok... see @rona post above


And it's a very loose interpretation of the term essential.... visiting seals isn't.

TBH I admire their bladder control. Taking Royston as an example of a town In Hertfordshire thats 1 hour 46 mins, 96 miles. Assuming public loos are open.


----------



## tabelmabel

catz4m8z said:


> Luckily its just a ban on going inside take aways, I think they can still deliver.


Yes and they can still serve from a hatch to the outside. Just that no one will be able to enter the premises. Not sure how that will stop queues forming though.

You will be safer indoors @Happy Paws2 - you could train your tastebuds to like tea to see you through until it's your turn for the vaccine


----------



## Siskin

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day.
> 
> I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


I had the same as an email some weeks ago. I've being going out to exercise weather permitting, just keeping away form people not that there's too many in our quiet village and of course medical appointments, pretty much what I've been doing since coming back from Suffolk at the end of September when I noticed the rate of infection going up and guessed what was coming


----------



## SusieRainbow

kittih said:


> What makes covid worse somehow is that the feedback to the brain that you have low oxygen levels doesn't always work properly (silent hypoxia) so you can become dangerously impaired without realising it.


I bought a little pulse-ox meter a couple of years ago, that will come in useful if I fear I've caught it. I bought when I had a nasty bout of bronchitis and shortness of breath to keep an eye on my lung function , it was reassuring to know. It's only quite a cheap one from Amazon but worth considering I think.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=pulse+oximeters&ref=nb_sb_noss_1


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> I bought a little pulse-ox meter a couple of years ago, that will come in useful if I fear I've caught it. I bought when I had a nasty bout of bronchitis and shortness of breath to keep an eye on my lung function , it was reassuring to know. It's only quite a cheap one from Amazon but worth considering I think.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=pulse+oximeters&ref=nb_sb_noss_1


I've bought one recently as it was something that was really recommended to have in your medical box as often low oxygen levels indicating covid often go unnoticed by people


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I've bought one recently as it was something that was really recommended to have in your medical box as often low oxygen levels indicating covid often go unnoticed by people


I've got one too! Dr John. Campbell was recommending them for the exact reason. Having had pneumonia where I didn't have 'atypical' symptoms but my O2 levels had lowered then yep definitely worth having in a medical box.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well had a letter arrive this afternoon that has spoiled my day.
> 
> I'm not vulnerable away more, I've just had a letter from the government and I'm now classed as clinically extremely vulnerable :Jawdrop I knew I wasn't in the best of health but are trying to frighten me, I'm not allowed out at all, not that I am going out anyway. I should also hear about my vaccination by mid February. So we'll if that happens.


I'm classed as extremely clinically vulnerable too. Personally I think they've got it wrong, but that's what they say.

I had a text straight after lockdown was announced with a follow up email with the letter attached.

I assume it puts me in the 4th group for the vaccine though so I'm not complaining too much.

Shielding is thoroughly pissing me off, but as there's nowhere to go anyway....


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I'm classed as extremely clinically vulnerable too. Personally I think they've got it wrong, but that's what they say.
> 
> I had a text straight after lockdown was announced with a follow up email with the letter attached.
> 
> I assume it puts me in the 4th group for the vaccine though so I'm not complaining too much.
> 
> Shielding is thoroughly pissing me off, but as there's nowhere to go anyway....


That's what I had, text followed by email and going by past experience there will be a letter in due course.
I'm fed up too, had enough of not going out to do things and missing friends.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> That's what I had, text followed by email and going by past experience there will be a letter in due course.
> I'm fed up too, had enough of not going out to do things and missing friends.


Hugs to you x


----------



## tabelmabel

Hopefully not much longer to go for all of you who need to shield. The end is in sight (just about!)

Take care - it will be so worth it.


----------



## kittih

SusieRainbow said:


> I bought a little pulse-ox meter a couple of years ago, that will come in useful if I fear I've caught it. I bought when I had a nasty bout of bronchitis and shortness of breath to keep an eye on my lung function , it was reassuring to know. It's only quite a cheap one from Amazon but worth considering I think.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=pulse+oximeters&ref=nb_sb_noss_1


I also bought one at the start of the covid pandemic. It's there if I need it but I am hoping I don't have to.


----------



## Magyarmum

Words fail me

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england...as been fined,McDonald's meal with her sister.

*Covid-19: Woman fined after 100-mile trip to Scarborough for burger*


----------



## rona

Looks like we are on the other side of the Xmas debacle, now we have to look forward to is the rise in cases when the government sent all those little covid carriers to school for a day!
That should start about now


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> And it's a very loose interpretation of the term essential.... visiting seals isn't.
> 
> TBH I admire their bladder control. Taking Royston as an example of a town In Hertfordshire thats 1 hour 46 mins, 96 miles. Assuming public loos are open.


Royston isn't that far from me. I live in Essex over the border. They had 70 deaths, 833 infections on the same day as that area of North Norfolk had 11 deaths and 450 cases. 96 miles is hardly the same as what @rona was describing. My sister lives that way and said it's been awful. Lots of people cramming onto the beaches to see the seals. They are not dog walkers, they're day trippers and that's a big difference. It's about 100 miles for me to get to see her, takes about 2 hours 

The councillors for the area all said to stay local in their PR. It was very clear guidance.


----------



## Blackadder

Just got my test result.......... Negative.
Less than 24hrs, impressive!


----------



## tabelmabel

That is brilliant news @Blackadder


----------



## Bisbow

Blackadder said:


> Just got my test result.......... Negative.
> Less than 24hrs, impressive!


Great news
Hope Mrs BA gets her jab soon


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I'm classed as extremely clinically vulnerable too. Personally I think they've got it wrong, but that's what they say.
> 
> ..


Well I know they are right, I have a heart murmur, damage to one of my lungs so my breathing isn't that good and my liver and both my kidneys aren't working properly, apart from that I'm fine.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Really interesting thread on Twitter for those that do the platform

This is from a study by the UCL in London which is updated weekly on social responses from Covid patients. I had no idea that this was a thing.

The covid social study asked people how many days they isolated for, after they had symptoms. This is scary and explains an awful lot about why it's spreading.










Rowland Mansthorpe also shared data from Springboard on retail and from Apple on movements/trips which indicate that we are going out less - I won't fill this with vast graphics but you can find them on the link above or in the UCL study which is here 

Some data on ages










And finally a response from _Science Shared_ which is a science account on Twitter that brings together all the scientific data on Covid - again very useful. Those running it are published in JRSM and work in labs and their research is all on Covid so they know their stuff.

This seems to show that some of the issues above around isolating maybe down to people not being able to safely do so perhaps?

_These views aren't necessarily mine so don't jump on me, I thought it might be useful reading after going back through this thread and the link helpful reading._


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> Really interesting thread on Twitter for those that do the platform
> 
> This is from a study by the UCL in London which is updated weekly on social responses from Covid patients. I had no idea that this was a thing.
> 
> The covid social study asked people how many days they isolated for, after they had symptoms. This is scary and explains an awful lot about why it's spreading.
> 
> View attachment 460071
> 
> 
> Rowland Mansthorpe also shared data from Springboard on retail and from Apple on movements/trips which indicate that we are going out less - I won't fill this with vast graphics but you can find them on the link above or in the UCL study which is here
> 
> Some data on ages
> 
> View attachment 460072
> 
> 
> And finally a response from _Science Shared_ which is a science account on Twitter that brings together all the scientific data on Covid - again very useful. Those running it are published in JRSM and work in labs and their research is all on Covid so they know their stuff.
> 
> This seems to show that some of the issues above around isolating maybe down to people not being able to safely do so perhaps?
> 
> _These views aren't necessarily mine so don't jump on me, I thought it might be useful reading after going back through this thread and the link helpful reading._
> 
> View attachment 460073


I'd assume people lie too, so the results are probably worse than they look.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Blackadder said:


> Just got my test result.......... Negative.
> Less than 24hrs, impressive!


That's brilliant news.


----------



## ebonycat

Blackadder said:


> Just got my test result.......... Negative.
> Less than 24hrs, impressive!


Oh wonderful, such a relief.


----------



## Blackadder

Thank you all  appreciated!


----------



## Magyarmum

I've no idea when I'll be getting the vaccine or indeed which one. 

Some 96 000 people have been vaccinated so far, mainly essential healthcare workers and people in care homes. The problem being although we have the capacity to vaccinate many more people vaccinations are being held back by the EU only sending the vaccine out in dribs and drabs. 

At present Hungary is receiving only sufficient to vaccinate around 100 000 people a week and it's estimated that there are some 3 million at risk people who need vaccinating. Although I'm elderly, I have no underlying medical conditions so I doubt whether I'm considered one of them.


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> The problem being although we have the capacity to vaccinate many more people vaccinations are being held back by the EU only sending the vaccine out in dribs and drabs.


There's something very odd going on there. I can't even hazard a guess what they are playing at!


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> There's something very odd going on there. I can't even hazard a guess what they are playing at!


I can't help,feeling very relieved that we are no longer in the EU and can organise the vaccines ourselves. I suspect the powers that be in Europe were either very very slow off the mark in preordering or have been arguing amongst themselves instead of getting on with it. I hope things improve for everyone in the EU


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> There's something very odd going on there. I can't even hazard a guess what they are playing at!


It will partly depend on the availability of supply. Vaccine production takes time to scale up.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> And it's a very loose interpretation of the term essential.... visiting seals isn't.
> 
> TBH I admire their bladder control. Taking Royston as an example of a town In Hertfordshire thats 1 hour 46 mins, 96 miles. Assuming public loos are open.


I don't see how anyone can justify travelling from Essex to Norfolk for seal watching at the moment - law or not tbh.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> I can't help,feeling very relieved that we are no longer in the EU and can organise the vaccines ourselves.


Every EU country could have done what we did and had the vaccine for emergency approval or whatever the correct thermology is.
They chose to stick together.


----------



## rona

Arny said:


> Every EU country could have done what we did and had the vaccine for emergency approval or whatever the correct thermology is.
> They chose to stick together.


I don't think that's right, there's some big hoohah about Germany having their own supply


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> I don't think that's right, there's some big hoohah about Germany having their own supply


From what I understand the EU were slow in ordering the vaccine which they were doing on behalf of all the EU countries. Individual countries weren't supposed to order their own supplies and everyone was told they could only start vaccinating on the same date, which if I remember rightly was either Dec 26th or 27th. Hungary was rapped over the knuckles for for not conforming and vaccinating the first person a day early, it also got into trouble for buying a small amount of both the Russian and the Chinese vaccine for testing by their own scientists. They're now threatening to start ordering independently of the EU, which no doubt will add to their reputation of being the bad boys of Europe.


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> I don't think that's right, there's some big hoohah about Germany having their own supply


All the reports I have seen about Germany (so far) have been about how slowly the vaccination rollout has been going there...


----------



## Arny

"All 27 EU Member States have formally signed up to the EU Vaccine Strategy proposed by the Commission in June, agreeing jointly to follow the conditional marketing authorisation procedure through the European Medicines Agency for COVID-19 vaccines. By following this route the safety, efficacy and quality of the vaccines will be thoroughly assessed and the trust of citizens will be safeguarded.

An Emergency Use Authorisation (EUA) allows for the temporary use of a medicine under specific conditions as long as emergency circumstances apply. The medicine however remains unlicensed and cannot be put on the market, contrary to a (conditional) marketing authorisation.

Whilst Emergency Use Authorisations are allowed under the EU pharmaceutical legislation, the use of a vaccine for which a Member State has issued such an authorisation is restricted to the authorising Member State only under its responsibility."

They were slower to approve the vaccine in the first place and I'm not sure whether they've only approved pfizer so far so that could also explain further delays.


----------



## rona

Jesthar said:


> All the reports I have seen about Germany (so far) have been about how slowly the vaccination rollout has been going there...


https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150554
"
The European Commission has refused to comment on whether Germany has breached EU agreements by securing additional vaccine doses for its own citizens under a bilateral agreement".

"The only framework we are negotiating in is as 27. We do this together, and* no member state on this legal-binding basis is allowed to negotiate in parallel or to have a contract in parallel*," the president of the EU executive, Germany's Ursula von der Leyen, told reporters on Friday (8 January).


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> the Russian and the Chinese vaccine .




And there's people here worried that Bill Gates is putting chips in their heads!


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150554
> "
> The European Commission has refused to comment on whether Germany has breached EU agreements by securing additional vaccine doses for its own citizens under a bilateral agreement".
> 
> "The only framework we are negotiating in is as 27. We do this together, and* no member state on this legal-binding basis is allowed to negotiate in parallel or to have a contract in parallel*," the president of the EU executive, Germany's Ursula von der Leyen, told reporters on Friday (8 January).


So are the countries all equal, but Germany more equal than others?


----------



## Magyarmum

Arny said:


> "All 27 EU Member States have formally signed up to the EU Vaccine Strategy proposed by the Commission in June, agreeing jointly to follow the conditional marketing authorisation procedure through the European Medicines Agency for COVID-19 vaccines. By following this route the safety, efficacy and quality of the vaccines will be thoroughly assessed and the trust of citizens will be safeguarded.
> 
> An Emergency Use Authorisation (EUA) allows for the temporary use of a medicine under specific conditions as long as emergency circumstances apply. The medicine however remains unlicensed and cannot be put on the market, contrary to a (conditional) marketing authorisation.
> 
> Whilst Emergency Use Authorisations are allowed under the EU pharmaceutical legislation, the use of a vaccine for which a Member State has issued such an authorisation is restricted to the authorising Member State only under its responsibility."
> 
> They were slower to approve the vaccine in the first place and I'm not sure whether they've only approved pfizer so far so that could also explain further delays.


Hungary has been receiving the Pfizer vaccine since last December, but only enough to vaccinate just over one hundred thousand people. The EU only gave approval of the Moderna vaccine on Jan 6th and the first supplies were received in Hungary on Jan 11th.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MilleD said:


> I'd assume people lie too, so the results are probably worse than they look.


There is a very lengthy study criteria that covers the variables of responses. The aim of the survey is to establish support - the validated measurements and scales include coping, anxiety, specific Covid anxiety, creative support (activities to help support recovery), depression, discrimination, empathy, life events, locus of control (how people felt about the control of events), loneliness, where they live, optimism, personality (based on 5 domains), religion, resilience, risk, social support.

Seems to retain participants too so it would be someone very clever to lie as prior data would make that relatively easy to identify. They'd not identified either so there's very little to gain by lying.


----------



## Arny

It was always going to be difficult when everyone in the world wants it at the same time and apparently with a shortage of vials too!


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> I don't see how anyone can justify travelling from Essex to Norfolk for seal watching at the moment - law or not tbh.


Madness isn't it? Hopefully the seals will benefit.


----------



## MollySmith

Pawscrossed said:


> Really interesting thread on Twitter for those that do the platform
> 
> This is from a study by the UCL in London which is updated weekly on social responses from Covid patients. I had no idea that this was a thing.
> 
> The covid social study asked people how many days they isolated for, after they had symptoms. This is scary and explains an awful lot about why it's spreading.
> 
> View attachment 460071
> 
> 
> Rowland Mansthorpe also shared data from Springboard on retail and from Apple on movements/trips which indicate that we are going out less - I won't fill this with vast graphics but you can find them on the link above or in the UCL study which is here
> 
> Some data on ages
> 
> View attachment 460072
> 
> 
> And finally a response from _Science Shared_ which is a science account on Twitter that brings together all the scientific data on Covid - again very useful. Those running it are published in JRSM and work in labs and their research is all on Covid so they know their stuff.
> 
> This seems to show that some of the issues above around isolating maybe down to people not being able to safely do so perhaps?
> 
> _These views aren't necessarily mine so don't jump on me, I thought it might be useful reading after going back through this thread and the link helpful reading._
> 
> View attachment 460073


That's all very interesting and useful for the future I'm sure. Thank you for sharing. As you said, I can't imagine why anyone would lie! If anything one maybe would feel a bit bad about going out and that graph would be less depressing.


----------



## daveos

I thought I was reading a Brexit thread again for a minute.


----------



## Magyarmum

In Hungary being vaccinated against the virus is purely voluntary. In order to get some idea of the number of people wanting to be vaccinated we were asked to register which I did about 3 weeks ago. Today received an email which although it doesn't say much at least shows they're received my information.

Dear Sir / Madam!
On December 26, the first coronavirus vaccine was administered in Hungary. Since then, vaccinations have been given on an ongoing basis according to the vaccination plan. First, healthcare workers can get the vaccine at hospital vaccines, tens of thousands of whom have already taken advantage of the opportunity. In recent days, vaccinations have also begun in nursing homes, especially those exposed to the infection. The goal is for those living and working here to get protection as soon as possible. That alone means more than a thousand institutions.
Hungary has so far ordered almost 20 million doses of vaccine from various international manufacturers. Joint EU procurement is carried out by the Brussels authorities, but the government is in intensive negotiations with several manufacturers to make more vaccines available. Currently, vaccines from two manufacturers (Pfizer, Moderna) are officially licensed and have started shipping vaccines to European countries, including Hungary. For both vaccine types, two vaccinations are required for protection.
More than one million Hungarian citizens have already registered to be vaccinated against the coronavirus, which shows that many people want to take advantage of the opportunity. The vaccine is the most effective tool in our hands against the coronavirus. Therefore, please encourage your family and friends to register as well! We will notify you of any further information regarding the vaccination.
Let's take care of each other!
Regards:
Coronavirus Information Center


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> So are the countries all equal, but Germany more equal than others?


Wasn't that always the way - along with France usually, I thought 

@Magyarmum the vaccine is voluntary in the UK too.


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary being vaccinated against the virus is purely voluntary. In order to get some idea of the number of people wanting to be vaccinated we were asked to register which I did about 3 weeks ago. Today received an email which although it doesn't say much at least shows they're received my information.
> 
> Dear Sir / Madam!
> On December 26, the first coronavirus vaccine was administered in Hungary. Since then, vaccinations have been given on an ongoing basis according to the vaccination plan. First, healthcare workers can get the vaccine at hospital vaccines, tens of thousands of whom have already taken advantage of the opportunity. In recent days, vaccinations have also begun in nursing homes, especially those exposed to the infection. The goal is for those living and working here to get protection as soon as possible. That alone means more than a thousand institutions.
> Hungary has so far ordered almost 20 million doses of vaccine from various international manufacturers. Joint EU procurement is carried out by the Brussels authorities, but the government is in intensive negotiations with several manufacturers to make more vaccines available. Currently, vaccines from two manufacturers (Pfizer, Moderna) are officially licensed and have started shipping vaccines to European countries, including Hungary. For both vaccine types, two vaccinations are required for protection.
> More than one million Hungarian citizens have already registered to be vaccinated against the coronavirus, which shows that many people want to take advantage of the opportunity. The vaccine is the most effective tool in our hands against the coronavirus. Therefore, please encourage your family and friends to register as well! We will notify you of any further information regarding the vaccination.
> Let's take care of each other!
> Regards:
> Coronavirus Information Center


Has the AZ vaccine not been approved by the EU?


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Has the AZ vaccine not been approved by the EU?


Not as far as I'm aware. Only Pfizer and Moderna.

I was listening to an EU spokesman last night who although he admitted they had been slow to order supplies, seemed to imply that much of the fault lay with EU countries being tardy in getting the vaccine into arms. An argument I seem to have heard before about the US


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Has the AZ vaccine not been approved by the EU?





Magyarmum said:


> Not as far as I'm aware. Only Pfizer and Moderna.
> 
> I was listening to an EU spokesman last night who although he admitted they had been slow to order supplies, seemed to imply that much of the fault lay with EU countries being tardy in getting the vaccine into arms. An argument I seem to have heard before about the US


Just to add .....

The UK and US ordered the Pfizer vaccine in July. The EU however didn't get round to ordering the vaccine until November and didn't start distributing it in small quantities to EU countries until December.

Hungary is geared up to vaccinating five hundred thousand people each week but is unable to do so as it's only being given enough each week to vaccinate a hundred thousand people which naturally is causing a good deal of frustration.


----------



## Siskin

I’m going to check with a friend, but I’ve heard Canada doesn’t seem to have got vaccines going yet


----------



## MollySmith

Off topic a bit but a great article on the woman who shamed Chartwell

https://www.bigissue.com/opinion/fr...biStKYgEC4uzVau-fzW3xEC0kPrQlrN67AyfKrbZV1LL0


----------



## mrs phas

A whole year, and over 50,000 lives, too late 
Boris is finally closing all air corridors 

Thatcher the milk snatcher has nothing on
Boris the too late


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> A whole year, and over 50,000 lives, too late
> Boris is finally closing all air corridors
> 
> Thatcher the milk snatcher has nothing on
> Boris the too late


If only we had done this last year.


----------



## daveos

Finally all air corridors closed this is what Austraila and New Zealand did last year we should have done the same a long time ago.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Off topic a bit but a great article on the woman who shamed Chartwell
> 
> https://www.bigissue.com/opinion/fr...biStKYgEC4uzVau-fzW3xEC0kPrQlrN67AyfKrbZV1LL0


Having dealt with Chartwells in my work, this story didn't surprise me at all sadly.


----------



## ForestWomble

Finally! 

I'm glad they've finally closed all air corridors, but how awful it took so many deaths before it happened


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> Finally!
> 
> I'm glad they've finally closed all air corridors, but how awful it took so many deaths before it happened


And let's face it the rest of the world are probably relieved who wants us flying into their country ?


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> And let's face it the rest of the world are probably relieved who wants us flying into their country ?


Exactly.

My Uncle lives on a cat. and he is currently working his way up to the Caribbean, last I heard he was in the Spain / Italy area but wasn't allowed off the boat, I may be wrong but I think it was due to the fact he flies the British flag. Don't blame them.


----------



## Siskin

Siskin said:


> I'm going to check with a friend, but I've heard Canada doesn't seem to have got vaccines going yet


My friend replied from Canada.
Apparently where they are in BC has had high infection rates, but there is only a small amount of the vaccine in the country. This is being given to front line staff and care workers. No one knows yet what tier they will be in (if they have tiers) and she didn't think there was any chance of them having the vaccine before spring. She and her husband are older then me.
There is nowhere in Canada to manufacture vaccines, they moved to other countries years ago, so vaccines need to be imported. There is something being built in Montreal but it won't be ready in time. She feels the government weren't very well organised and were late in starting to order in vaccines.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Just read on FB from my old Matron that an ex-colleague of mine has sadly experienced the death of her husband and her son from Covid last week  She was such a gentle lady, I'm so very sad for them - she retired three years ago. It's not long enough together to enjoy your golden years. 

Please please PLEASE be safe everyone. Take no risks.


----------



## Charity

A friend who used to be a colleague of mine and her husband both have it pretty badly. They have two young children, how you cope when you feel so bad I have no idea. I am really disappointed that so many people haven't done what they are told throughout this last year which has brought us to this, not the Government or anyone else.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> Hungary was rapped over the knuckles for for not conforming and vaccinating the first person a day early, it also got into trouble for buying a small amount of both the Russian and the Chinese vaccine for testing by their own scientists,
> .


One day early ?  I read that the Chinese vaccine is only just over 50% effective 



daveos said:


> I thought I was reading a Brexit thread again for a minute.


 :Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Just read on FB from my old Matron that an ex-colleague of mine has sadly experienced the death of her husband and her son from Covid last week  She was such a gentle lady, I'm so very sad for them - she retired three years ago. It's not long enough together to enjoy your golden years.
> 
> Please please PLEASE be safe everyone. Take no risks.


How awful poor lady.


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> Finally!
> 
> I'm glad they've finally closed all air corridors, but how awful it took so many deaths before it happened


10 months too late.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Just read on FB from my old Matron that an ex-colleague of mine has sadly experienced the death of her husband and her son from Covid last week  She was such a gentle lady, I'm so very sad for them - she retired three years ago. It's not long enough together to enjoy your golden years.
> 
> Please please PLEASE be safe everyone. Take no risks.


I am so sorry, that is awful. It's creeping much closer, I think we all know someone.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Charity said:


> A friend who used to be a colleague of mine and her husband both have it pretty badly. They have two young children, how you cope when you feel so bad I have no idea. I am really disappointed that so many people haven't done what they are told throughout this last year which has brought us to this, not the Government or anyone else.


I agree wholeheartedly, Charity. All the folk who won't wear a mask because they don't believe it's real. All the folk who still go shopping in big groups. All the folk who congregate in big groups on the beach or in the park. All the folk who are still going to see friends and family. All the folk who continue to hug and kiss one another. How many more people have to die before those folk will actually change their behaviours?

It makes me so so sad.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. My nearest village and nearest town are both going into lockdown. Borders closed, bars/ shops closed, only 4 people in groups, curfew at 8pm. Infection rates are over 1,000 in 100,000.

Scary times.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Charity said:


> A friend who used to be a colleague of mine and her husband both have it pretty badly. They have two young children, how you cope when you feel so bad I have no idea. I am really disappointed that so many people haven't done what they are told throughout this last year which has brought us to this, not the Government or anyone else.


agree with most of this but it's a collective cock up, in my opinion, that has to include the government, not withstanding the rules and how people interpret them, this time last year the PM missed Cobra meetings, encouraged hand shaking and went ahead with the Cheltenham Gold Cup. People sadly and stupidly believed this crap and still do.We locked down after the EFL stopped football. Yes, we have a duty to be responsible but other islands have handled this better and it felt like it wasn't taken seriously at the start. We won't know how other parties would have handled it and it's all hyperbole but I've long thought this needed to be a cross party effort to stop donors like Charterwell making a profit from this tragedy.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> One day early ?  I read that the Chinese vaccine is only just over 50% effective
> 
> :Hilarious


https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-administers-covid-19-vaccine-to-health-workers/

*Hungary starts vaccinating one day early, against EU plan*


----------



## Lurcherlad

Good for Hungary!

Glad we aren’t relying on permission from the EU.


----------



## Magyarmum

daveos said:


> I thought I was reading a Brexit thread again for a minute.


https://www.politico.eu/article/the-vaccination-blame-game-is-it-all-the-eus-fault/

*The EU's coronavirus vaccine blame game. Why so slow?*


----------



## Bisbow

Always knew we would be better out than in
This proves it


----------



## StormyThai

-dons mod hat-

Can we discuss the Brexit stuff in the Brexit thread please...we don't want to make this thread about politics when it is supposed to be here for support.


----------



## Bisbow

StormyThai said:


> -dons mod hat-
> 
> Can we discuss the Brexit stuff in the Brexit thread please...we don't want to make this thread about politics when it is supposed to be here for support.


Sorry


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> -dons mod hat-
> 
> Can we discuss the Brexit stuff in the Brexit thread please...we don't want to make this thread about politics when it is supposed to be here for support.


Sorry. I wasn't intending to be contentious, just trying to explain why the EU is so behind with their vaccination programme.


----------



## MollySmith

Pawscrossed said:


> agree with most of this but it's a collective cock up, in my opinion, that has to include the government, not withstanding the rules and how people interpret them, this time last year the PM missed Cobra meetings, encouraged hand shaking and went ahead with the Cheltenham Gold Cup. People sadly and stupidly believed this crap and still do.We locked down after the EFL stopped football. Yes, we have a duty to be responsible but other islands have handled this better and it felt like it wasn't taken seriously at the start. We won't know how other parties would have handled it and it's all hyperbole but I've long thought this needed to be a cross party effort to stop donors like Charterwell making a profit from this tragedy.


If you can afford it get it, it's not cheap, Vic Lee's Corona Diary Volume 1 is a visual portrait of Jan to May last year and all the actions that were not taken or were taken. It is very sobering and scary. Kind of explains why were are here now. I recall the football clearly. My husband is a devoted Cambridge fan and they called the match off but the racing went ahead. That is when we knew it was serious. Seems forever ago now.

I'm upset for those with no voice. The Big Issue vendors for example. They can't trade each time we're in lockdown.


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> -dons mod hat-
> 
> Can we discuss the Brexit stuff in the Brexit thread please...we don't want to make this thread about politics when it is supposed to be here for support.


thank you.
_
(anyone would think Covid causes huge memory gaps. Just that small £200m funding from EU into developing the vaccine - confirmed with scientist friend who worked on UK research....!) _


----------



## Lurcherlad

Oi! Works both ways yer know!


----------



## MollySmith

Maybe best summarised as thank **** we have a vaccine and the global effort by science and the volunteers everywhere to make it happen. It's absolutely incredible and probably about the one thing - apart from Biden - that makes me feel vaguely hopeful.

Something on pandemic fatigue and why we _might_ want to view those who break ruies. I said might....
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/0...B8hVYppQnzUN1h89snq-DMY8bM6ww6TycP9NlqhRGsxGE


----------



## MilleD

I wonder what goes through these idiots "brains" sometimes.


----------



## tabelmabel

Me too @MilleD ! We had one in scotland last week i think it was, a large people carrier (one of those 8 people ones) travelled through several local authority areas (travel into another local authority area is illegal here) and decided to go on a "scenic trip" in lethal conditions up an icy high road.

Of course, their vehicle slipped off the road and they needed air ambulance out and many emergency services to rescue them.

You really do wonder what goes on in some people's heads!

Here is the story. Some details i got wrong but that was the gist of it

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/covidiot-scots-family-scenic-drive-23293162


----------



## Nonnie

Funny how physical and mental health suddenly dont matter as soon as the weather gets a bit grotty.


----------



## Boxer123

Nonnie said:


> Funny how physical and mental health suddenly dont matter as soon as the weather gets a bit grotty.


It's super busy around here every weekend I live just opposite the river and we seem to get hordes at the weekend. We went out early today.


----------



## Nonnie

Boxer123 said:


> It's super busy around here every weekend I live just opposite the river and we seem to get hordes at the weekend. We went out early today.


Usually is here. Car parks are normally overflowing.

Wet and windy, with mist/fog.

Saw a grand total of 6 people today. Normal Saturday would be over a hundred at least. Probably twice that tbh.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Doesnt put people off round here. Went for walk in wind and rain and saw a few people in the distance as usual


----------



## tabelmabel

Doesn't seem to put people off here either. Prior to March, during the week it was very unusual to see anyone at all when out walking. One or two at most.

Since june, it has been packed out where i live. I remember one especially wet Tuesday morning last year. I was in full waterproofs. It was lashing it down. But still they came. On a Tuesday in term time (this was a week when schools were back in) that would not have been the case prior to March.

Apparently there was an instagram thing during the first lockdown with pics of all these 'undiscovered walks' and now everyone has discovered them it would seem.


----------



## Nonnie

HarlequinCat said:


> Doesnt put people off round here. Went for walk in wind and rain and saw a few people in the distance as usual


Full of fair weather w****** here.

Going to be sunny tomorrow, so it will be wall to wall mountain bikers and people walking their lockdown puppies.

I dont even meet the worst of them, as i go early, know my area extremely well, and am able to avoid close contact with most.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We are never going to beat it, if people keep doing things like this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-55676507


----------



## tabelmabel

Just seen the news with Guernsey (channel islands) no social distancing, no masks all normal because they are covid-free!!

Lucky them. I love guernsey. They took a good early approach and closed their borders. Great community engagement. Reaping the rewards now. Seemed surreal seeing the pics of them at the pub all stood close together no masks!


----------



## ForestWomble

tabelmabel said:


> Just seen the news with Guernsey (channel islands) no social distancing, no masks all normal because they are covid-free!!
> 
> Lucky them. I love guernsey. They took a good early approach and closed their borders. Great community engagement. Reaping the rewards now. Seemed surreal seeing the pics of them at the pub all stood close together no masks!


Well Done Guernsey!


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Just seen the news with Guernsey (channel islands) no social distancing, no masks all normal because they are covid-free!!
> 
> Lucky them. I love guernsey. *They took a good early approach and closed their borders.* Great community engagement. Reaping the rewards now. Seemed surreal seeing the pics of them at the pub all stood close together no masks!


Yet they have a ferry from Portsmouth and Jersey everyday.

*Location* *Cases* *Recovered* *Deaths*
Guernsey
309 cases 
288 recovery
13 deaths


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yet they have a ferry from Portsmouth and Jersey everyday.


Oh, that is odd @Happy Paws2 - this was on last night's TV news. It definitely reported that they locked down hard in March and are now reaping the rewards.

It did show their reporter in the pub which was pretty packed with no masks, no distancing and I did wonder if if was wise for the reporter to be there but there was some comment about eye watering penalties for any rule breakers.

And there were pictures of their Christmas celebrations too - hundreds of folk celebrating as normal.

They are still running buses here as normal - all empty as they did during the first lockdown so maybe those ferries are for a select few folk only and not for your average tourist popping over from Portsmouth.

I dont think it was fake news but who knows?!


----------



## tabelmabel

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-16...ut-covid-restrictions-on-gatherings-and-masks

I think this might be the report they ran - havent watched it but it was ITV news i saw it on - in fact, yes, this is the exact same piece they ran on TV.


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Oh, that is odd @Happy Paws2 - this was on last night's TV news. It definitely reported that they locked down hard in March and are now reaping the rewards.
> 
> It did show their reporter in the pub which was pretty packed with no masks, no distancing and I did wonder if if was wise for the reporter to be there but there was some comment about eye watering penalties for any rule breakers.
> 
> And there were pictures of their Christmas celebrations too - hundreds of folk celebrating as normal.
> 
> They are still running buses here as normal - all empty as they did during the first lockdown so maybe those ferries are for a select few folk only and not for your average tourist popping over from Portsmouth.
> 
> I dont think it was fake news but who knows?!


I just googled Guernsey and they have had 10 cases so far this year.


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> I just googled Guernsey and they have had 10 cases so far this year.


Yes - i dont think they were trying to claim they had never had a case - only that they are covid-free now. Is that what you picked up from that news report?


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Yes - i dont think they were trying to claim they had never had a case - only that they are covid-free now. Is that what you picked up from that news report?


Not sure they can say that having 10 cases up to the 16th this month. (yesterday)


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> Not sure they can say that having 10 cases up to the 16th this month. (yesterday)


Oh i didnt realise they had had 10 this month - your 1st post said this year. If 10 this month they arent really covid free are they!


----------



## Jesthar

tabelmabel said:


> Oh i didnt realise they had had 10 this month - your 1st post said this year. If 10 this month they arent really covid free are they!


To be fair, it is the first month of this year, so pretty much the same thing at the moment...


----------



## tabelmabel

Jesthar said:


> To be fair, it is the first month of this year, so pretty much the same thing at the moment...


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

Oh yes so it is! Thanks for pointing that out - I am soooooooo thick at times!! Well, i dont know then how they are claiming to be covid free but the fact remains they have dropped masks and distancing and are living as normal.

Roll on normal times for the rest of us here, too


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> Oh yes so it is! Thanks for pointing that out - I am soooooooo thick at times!! Well, i dont know then how they are claiming to be covid free but the fact remains they have dropped masks and distancing and are living as normal.
> 
> Roll on normal times for the rest of us here, too


Tbh I think I'll be holding on to the mask wearing in supermarkets etc.


----------



## tabelmabel

Interestingly, @Lurcherlad - Dr Hannah Fry was saying mask wearing will stay for a long time, and it is likely many people will continue to wear masks out of politeness and respect for others when they have a cold - based on mask wearing behaviour across Asia.

She also said that, after the Spanish flu, many places were built like dance halls, cinemas, etc because people felt a great urge to be together and she thinks we will see this behaviour again.

Time will tell . . .


----------



## Lurcherlad

And antibac in my handbag at all times!


----------



## Siskin

It’s going to take me quite a while to be close to others when we are finally set free. I’m sure I will spend a lot of time taking steps backwards to keep away. I just can’t imagine going into a crowded pub or a cinema something we’ve all been doing for all our lives (well perhaps not pubs, but you know what I mean).


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Tbh I think I'll be holding on to the mask wearing in supermarkets etc.


and me for the foreseeable future anyway, maybe into next year and beyond.


----------



## tabelmabel

Siskin said:


> It's going to take me quite a while to be close to others when we are finally set free. I'm sure I will spend a lot of time taking steps backwards to keep away. I just can't imagine going into a crowded pub or a cinema something we've all been doing for all our lives (well perhaps not pubs, but you know what I mean).


I was thinking that myself, @Siskin - it seems 2nd nature to step away from people now.

But, then i remembered, i have booked us a little break in Blackpool in October and I am keeping everything crossed that can go ahead. As normal and be busy and fun.

I hope none of us have developed anxiety disorders and end up collapsing in the queue for the Big Dipper . . .

My eldest son (who is grown up now and doesnt live with us) he has a marked dyspraxia and proprioceptive difficulties so he finds crowds very difficult. When he and i went to London, he came over all dizzy on the tube and he rushed up to street level gasping for air - total anxiety attack.

I wonder if more of us will have problems like that after this . . .hopefully not. Crowds never bothered me before and i hope they wont after this.


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> I was thinking that myself, @Siskin - it seems 2nd nature to step away from people now.
> 
> But, then i remembered, i have booked us a little break in Blackpool in October and I am keeping everything crossed that can go ahead. As normal and be busy and fun.
> 
> I hope none of us have developed anxiety disorders and end up collapsing in the queue for the Big Dipper . . .
> 
> My eldest son (who is grown up now and doesnt live with us) he has a marked dyspraxia and proprioceptive difficulties so he finds crowds very difficult. When he and i went to London, he came over all dizzy on the tube and he rushed up to street level gasping for air - total anxiety attack.
> 
> I wonder if more of us will have problems like that after this . . .hopefully not. Crowds never bothered me before and i hope they wont after this.


I'm not keen on crowds and am always relieved to drive home and leave the busyness behind. I think that's more to do with living either in the countryside or in quiet low population places. Even when we lived in Berlin our house was on the outskirts close to the Wall on an RAF base and surrounded by trees and open areas.


----------



## tabelmabel

I grew up in the country and live in the country now but, oddly enough, i prefer the city! The only reason we are in the country is because we couldnt afford city living. Even as a small child, i loved looking across the lights of a city at night and i absolutely loved living in Edinburgh for a few years. I appreciate the country more now because of the dogs but, ideally, i would like to live in a high rise apartment overlooking a city. The only slight hitch is im a bit scared of lifts. So i dont know how i would get up to my high apartment but id be very happy there. I love museums, theatres, galleries and all the things a city has to offer.

I cannot wait to get back to the theatre when this is over. That is what i am missing more than anything.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I'm not keen on crowds.


Ive always avoided crowds as they give me panic attacks.... I can safely say that my behaviour towards people post covid will be no different then it has been pre or mid covid!!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Bisbow

My son in law has been tested for covid, he is not very well today so I think ha has it
At least my daughter can nurse him as she has to stay isolates with him

He is a bit of a baby when he is ill so I do not envy her and hope he recovers soon


----------



## Siskin

I’ve heard that an elderly neighbour who was taken in hospital with covid last week is not in intensive car, but is still very poorly. His wife had a few minutes on the phone with him and he managed to speak a few words. He’s not that well normally so I wonder if hi will make it through


----------



## rona

Bisbow said:


> My son in law has been tested for covid, he is not very well today so I think ha has it
> At least my daughter can nurse him as she has to stay isolates with him
> 
> He is a bit of a baby when he is ill so I do not envy her and hope he recovers soon


Hoping he's ok. How old is he?
I know you are ancient, so he may be in the vulnerable age groups too 

OH's BIL (30s) has it quite bad, he's been pulling double shifts on the Covid wards. Rather a large viral load I should think


----------



## Bisbow

rona said:


> Hoping he's ok. How old is he?
> I know you are ancient, so he may be in the vulnerable age groups too
> 
> OH's BIL (30s) has it quite bad, he's been pulling double shifts on the Covid wards. Rather a large viral load I should think


Yes, I am ancient  but he is in his 50's going on 10 (at times)

He is a lovely fella really

Hope BIL gets better soon


----------



## lullabydream

OK is this right? Friends daughter came home from school today. She's at a special school and is going to do 3 days a week so she has some normality in her life. She is 17 has autism and other additional needs. She says the school will be testing all students tomorrow for Covid-19 and it will be a weekly thing. Is this common? She's refusing though. It's apparently voluntary.
Haven't heard anything back from my teacher friends but they are primary and not secondary.

So was wondering if this is going to be the norm now?


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> OK is this right? Friends daughter came home from school today. She's at a special school and is going to do 3 days a week so she has some normality in her life. She is 17 has autism and other additional needs. She says the school will be testing all students tomorrow for Covid-19 and it will be a weekly thing. Is this common? She's refusing though. It's apparently voluntary.
> Haven't heard anything back from my teacher friends but they are primary and not secondary.
> 
> So was wondering if this is going to be the norm now?


It looks like something might be going on at the schools in my county.

School to pilot rapid Covid-19 testing - Staffordshire County Council Newsroom

This was beginning of December though - don't know if it's been rolled out more?


----------



## Arny

lullabydream said:


> OK is this right? Friends daughter came home from school today. She's at a special school and is going to do 3 days a week so she has some normality in her life. She is 17 has autism and other additional needs. She says the school will be testing all students tomorrow for Covid-19 and it will be a weekly thing. Is this common? She's refusing though. It's apparently voluntary.
> Haven't heard anything back from my teacher friends but they are primary and not secondary.
> 
> So was wondering if this is going to be the norm now?


My auntie works in a secondary school, they're testing twice a week.
Apparently its making the students complacent as they get a negative test and assume they don't have it but the tests aren't very effective (obviously better than nothing).


----------



## O2.0

lullabydream said:


> OK is this right? Friends daughter came home from school today. She's at a special school and is going to do 3 days a week so she has some normality in her life. She is 17 has autism and other additional needs. She says the school will be testing all students tomorrow for Covid-19 and it will be a weekly thing. Is this common? She's refusing though. It's apparently voluntary.
> Haven't heard anything back from my teacher friends but they are primary and not secondary.
> 
> So was wondering if this is going to be the norm now?


I don't know about there, but here a lot of college kids had to show proof of a negative covid test before being allowed to return to the dorms (and classes) after winter break.


----------



## lullabydream

Thanks for the responses. To be honest I haven't a clue how successful the school will be at getting my friends daughter to be tested, or the others in the school. There are varying additional needs in the school. Not all those in the school will have their flu inoculation which is done via a nasal spray.


----------



## Boxer123

lullabydream said:


> OK is this right? Friends daughter came home from school today. She's at a special school and is going to do 3 days a week so she has some normality in her life. She is 17 has autism and other additional needs. She says the school will be testing all students tomorrow for Covid-19 and it will be a weekly thing. Is this common? She's refusing though. It's apparently voluntary.
> Haven't heard anything back from my teacher friends but they are primary and not secondary.
> 
> So was wondering if this is going to be the norm now?


Yes testing in secondary schools is being rolled out.


----------



## willa

Press Conference today, Matt Hancock said by September all adults should have had their first vaccination .
I didn’t realise the over 80’s still haven’t all been vaccinated yet .

Dunno seems the target gets pushed further and further back


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Press Conference today, Matt Hancock said by September all adults should have had their first vaccination .
> I didn't realise the over 80's still haven't all been vaccinated yet .
> 
> Dunno seems the target gets pushed further and further back


I do think that half the 50 year olds have already been vaccinated because they are the main age group that are carers.
I think you need to look at the numbers rather than the ages


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> Press Conference today, Matt Hancock said by September all adults should have had their first vaccination .
> I didn't realise the over 80's still haven't all been vaccinated yet .
> 
> Dunno seems the target gets pushed further and further back


yup seems a bit muddled doesn't? No call ups for my 80 year old parents in Cambridgeshire yet, Very patchy. Looks like we're in a lagging area in the East.


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> New Press Conference today, Matt Hancock said by September all adults should have had their first vaccination .
> I didn't realise the over 80's still haven't all been vaccinated yet .
> 
> Dunno seems the target gets pushed further and further back


They need to do 300,000 a day to hit the target of mid Feb for, was it the first 4 groups on the priority list?
Looks like they should make that.

Trouble is by the time they've done all the over 50s, "by the spring", they'll be starting all over again to do the second dose.


----------



## Arny

At lot of the older generation where I am received letters to invite them to the mass vaccination places first.
It's often either unfeasible for an 80+ year old to get themselves to, if need be, or they're hours away even if they can get a lift.
That is of course if they hadn't thrown the letter away anyway thinking it's a scam.
Naturally they've waited till the gp's and pharmacys have received the vaccines, only last week here.

I do think they managed to do care home residents early on though.


----------



## Magyarmum

The cases of new infections in Hungary is going down steadily. Yesterday only 573 new cases and deaths are finally starting to follow.

I have this great sense of relief although it won't change my habits one iota. I shall still wear a mask, keep a distance and wash/sanitise my hands regularly. If the trend keeps up once the weather improves I might start taking the boys to training because Gabor always chooses places where there are very few people.

I've no idea when I'll get the vaccination because there's a problem with Pfizer and apparently deliveries to EU countries will be delayed until around March.

https://apnews.com/article/public-h...irus-vaccine-74dfc5479fc2fca69e7d9704bedfc965

*Pfizer temporarily reduces European deliveries of vaccine*

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/18...zOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> The cases of new infections in Hungary is going down steadily. Yesterday only 573 new cases and deaths are finally starting to follow.
> 
> I have this great sense of relief although it won't change my habits one iota. I shall still wear a mask, keep a distance and wash/sanitise my hands regularly. If the trend keeps up once the weather improves I might start taking the boys to training because Gabor always chooses places where there are very few people.
> 
> I've no idea when I'll get the vaccination because there's a problem with Pfizer and apparently deliveries to EU countries will be delayed until around March.
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/public-h...irus-vaccine-74dfc5479fc2fca69e7d9704bedfc965
> 
> *Pfizer temporarily reduces European deliveries of vaccine*
> 
> https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/18/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=en&utm_content=covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way&_ope=eyJndWlkIjoiMGQzOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==


I think I heard their Belgium plant has temporarily halted production so that they can rejig things to increase their productivity.


----------



## Bisbow

SIL has tested positive but as my daughter has had the first jab hopefully she will e OK

SIL now tucked up in ed with his furry hot water bottle


----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> I think I heard their Belgium plant has temporarily halted production so that they can rejig things to increase their productivity.


I saw that as well, hopefully it will not be for long.


----------



## MilleD

Bisbow said:


> SIL has tested positive but as my daughter has had the first jab hopefully she will e OK
> 
> SIL now tucked up in ed with his furry hot water bottle


Sorry to hear about the positive test, but it will be a good check to see if the vaccine does it's job?


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> I think I heard their Belgium plant has temporarily halted production so that they can rejig things to increase their productivity.





Happy Paws2 said:


> I saw that as well, hopefully it will not be for long.


The problem is that to date, most EU countries have only been allocated very small amounts of the vaccine and have used it immediately. It now means for a country like Hungary, due to the halted production, the vaccination programme is virtually on hold until the end of February, beginning of March.

Which in turn means that instead of our lockdown restrictions being eased as we'd hoped with the new cases going down they'll most likely continue until vaccine delivery gets back to normal which means the end of February, beginning of March.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...porarily-reduces-vaccine-deliveries-to-europe

*EU states express 'severe concern' as Pfizer temporarily reduces Covid-19 vaccine deliveries*


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> I've no idea when I'll get the vaccination because there's a problem with Pfizer and apparently deliveries to EU countries will be delayed until around March.
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/public-h...irus-vaccine-74dfc5479fc2fca69e7d9704bedfc965
> 
> *Pfizer temporarily reduces European deliveries of vaccine*


It's not a 'problem', per se. They're having to upgrade the production facilities to cope with demand (a lot faster than building from scratch!), and that involves downtime. So basically a planned and necessary outage to increase capacity.

Which means I'm not sure why the EU are disgruntled, as it was always going to happen at some point, and the sooner it happens, the sooner larger volumes of vaccine are available.


----------



## mrs phas




----------



## 3dogs2cats

mrs phas said:


> View attachment 460435


  I was told this yesterday by one of mums carers, her fellow carer was really excited until it dawned on her!


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> It's not a 'problem', per se. They're having to upgrade the production facilities to cope with demand (a lot faster than building from scratch!), and that involves downtime. So basically a planned and necessary outage to increase capacity.
> 
> Which means I'm not sure why the EU are disgruntled, as it was always going to happen at some point, and the sooner it happens, the sooner larger volumes of vaccine are available.


It might not be a problem for you but when you're only receiving enough vaccine to vaccinate 7000 people a week it is. .It's a mere drop in the ocean when a country like Hungary has the capacity and is all set up to vaccinate half a million people a week.

One small point ... it isn't the EU that's disgruntled after all it was the EU that failed to order enough of the vaccine. It's the various EU countries that are annoyed because they're being held back in their vaccination programmes.

Imagine what would happen if Boris suddenly announced "Sorry folks no more vaccinations for another 6 weeks during which time you'll have to stay locked up in your homes until fresh supplies arrive"? Don't think you'd be overjoyed.


----------



## kimthecat

Had standard sms text saying my appointment with RA consultant at Northwick park Hosp in Feb has been cancelled . " To release clinicians at NPH to help meet the increasing impatient care need , we regrettably need to postpone you outpatients appointment "

Shows how over whelmed the hospital is.! Its not a problem. My last appointment was by email and I can always contact my Consultant via his secretary if necessary .
One good thing is I have an appointment for my yearly mammogram next month. Relieved to get it.


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> Imagine what would happen if Boris suddenly announced "Sorry folks no more vaccinations for another 6 weeks during which time you'll have to stay locked up in your homes until fresh supplies arrive"? Don't think you'd be overjoyed.


Actually, I would honestly not care at all.  For one thing, I'm both autistic and an introvert, so being able to work from home full time and having a valid resaon to avoid socialising unless I absolutely want to has actually been really good for me. I do fully appreciate that many aren't as blessed as me in that department, of course.

And as a second reason, supply and demand mathematics. Either the plant stays as it is and vaccine production remains at current levels, or they cease production briefly in order to start producing the vaccine in much bigger quantities, enabling vaccination plans to accelerate afterwards. If staying home for an extra six weeks now means knocking six months off the overall vaccination plan, then I'll take that deal as it's best for the majority. I'm tail end Charlie as it is, anyway - young, not at risk, and therefore in the lowest of the low category for getting the vaccine - next year, at current vaccination rates I think - so whatever happens I'm in it for the long haul.


----------



## lullabydream

Jesthar said:


> Actually, I would honestly not care at all.  For one thing, I'm both autistic and an introvert, so being able to work from home full time and having a valid resaon to avoid socialising unless I absolutely want to has actually been really good for me. I do fully appreciate that many aren't as blessed as me in that department, of course.
> 
> And as a second reason, supply and demand mathematics. Either the plant stays as it is and vaccine production remains at current levels, or they cease production briefly in order to start producing the vaccine in much bigger quantities, enabling vaccination plans to accelerate afterwards. If staying home for an extra six weeks now means knocking six months off the overall vaccination plan, then I'll take that deal as it's best for the majority. I'm tail end Charlie as it is, anyway - young, not at risk, and therefore in the lowest of the low category for getting the vaccine - next year, at current vaccination rates I think - so whatever happens I'm in it for the long haul.


Apologises you probably are not the best person to quoted. Since you were the last person to comment and mentioned shut downs, and why now.I just want to say in manufacturing industry food and pharmaceutical as you have explained about a 'shut down' this happens all the time. It's not just this vaccine, it's many, and standards are high to work to maintain sterile areas. Which means working in the pharmaceutical and food industry. Am using both as examples, as these affect everyone, but mainly we are none the wiser it will be time consuming. In ideal worlds, public holidays, such as Christmas, Easter these are commonly used but these are more for maintenance mainly in these areas and scheduled. Manufacturing is an area that doesn't always sleep, which is why it's vital for the economy.

Do we notice lack of certain foods for example, possibly you may notice that x brand is not on a shelf for a few weeks in the food industry. Due to choice, often it doesn't matter. Of course this is not always the reason as there are other places manufacturing same products too.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH had his letter yesterday, we were both worried about having to travel to one of the centers, we needed have worried the letter says,

*"if there is a reason you can't book an appointment at one of these locations, you can choose to wait until your local GP services contact you. if you would rather do that, you don't need to do anything now - just wait for your GP services to contact you." 
*
So we shall both do that.


----------



## tabelmabel

It is worrying, having to travel, especially with this awful weather forecast. My aunt was very worried when she got her appt as it was at a centre a distance away. She did get there, as the neighbour she is bubbled with drove her along but that definitely won't be possible for many people. Hope you and your man won't need to wait too long for another, more local appt @Happy Paws2 but best to keep in and safe. You are in the area where the floods are forecast, are you - midlands?

Or are they more Yorkshire? It looked a very wet forecast down your way. Stay safe.


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> It is worrying, having to travel, especially with this awful weather forecast. My aunt was very worried when she got her appt as it was at a centre a distance away. She did get there, as the neighbour she is bubbled with drove her along but that definitely won't be possible for many people. Hope you and your man won't need to wait too long for another, more local appt @Happy Paws2 but best to keep in and safe. You are in the area where the floods are forecast, are you - midlands?
> 
> Or are they more Yorkshire? It looked a very wet forecast down your way. Stay safe.


We are West Midlands, Sutton Coldfield just north of Birmingham we don't normally getting any flooding round here.

We are staying in I haven't been out since a week before Christmas, and I don't intend to go out.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> We are staying in I haven't been out since a week before Christmas, and I don't intend to go out.


Don't you feel sluggish and sleepy all the time?

I go out for 3-4 hours every day but still can't get used to all the time I spend indoors :Yawn


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Don't you feel sluggish and sleepy all the time?
> 
> I go out for 3-4 hours every day but still can't get used to all the time I spend indoors :Yawn


Not really I do go out in the garden a have a fiddle around to get some fresh air a couple of times a day, when we get a reasonable day I might have a ride round the block on my scooter, keeping well away from the shops. but the weather has been to cold the last few weeks,


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> Don't you feel sluggish and sleepy all the time?
> 
> I go out for 3-4 hours every day but still can't get used to all the time I spend indoors :Yawn


Some people definitely have more active genes than others! Take my family - inactive!!!

My autistic son - he has not stepped a foot outdoors this year. And id have a job getting him out. Had an awful bother with him in the first lockdown but he really does not like to walk and has no social drive. He seemed to slot back into his activities when they resumed in the summer so im not stressing about getting him out this time like i did last time.

My OH working from home and in his 50s. No health condition. Exits the house once a week when it is 'his' turn to take the dogs out.

My daughter - well she loves her horse riding but that is off just now and we dont own a horse so she is another exercise phobe. She has been out maybe twice this year when i have forced her out on a dog walk.

My other son - he is a bit more lively and has been out 2 or 3 times each week with the dogs but he has a lot of uni work on so is busy with that.

And me. Well, i go out every day except saturday with the dogs. But if i didnt have the dogs, i wouldnt go out. I dont feel any great need to go out.

Id rather be cosy indoors. Im not out for anything like 3 hours. One to one and a half tops.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Actually, I would honestly not care at all.  For one thing, I'm both autistic and an introvert, so being able to work from home full time and having a valid resaon to avoid socialising unless I absolutely want to has actually been really good for me. I do fully appreciate that many aren't as blessed as me in that department, of course.


I guess you are "lucky"? Feels an odd thing to say though!

It is sending me stir crazy, this shielding. Just today I've thought I need some more cat food, but I'm not supposed to go to the shops. So then I wondered if the pet shop would throw me some through the front door so I don't have to go in.

Aaaaarrrggghhh etc.


----------



## tabelmabel

What's the betting the schools don't go back til after Easter?! Just saying . . .


----------



## tabelmabel

MilleD said:


> I guess you are "lucky"? Feels an odd thing to say though!


Autism definitely has benefitted my son as he has no social drive at all. He has no drive to contact people at all. The centre he usually attends has set up some zoom groups but he's not fussed to do them.

He does miss out from his structure and routine having gone. He needs that. He has some voluntary work in a cafe that employs disabled people but of course that isnt on just now. He is doing ok this time though, we had some ups and downs last time but he has been more stable this time.

His usual activities take him out of the house 4 days each week but he hasnt been out of the house at all since December. He has no drive to do so.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think everyone (and their situation) is different tbh

I've always been an active outdoors type and am still fit and healthy enough to walk long distances and dodge other people.

I understand @Happy Paws2 why you're less keen to get out and about if you're having to rely on other people being considerate and giving you space.

I find myself doing the Giant Slalom more often than not! 

Yesterday I walked 4.5 miles to town (the quietest route to avoid other people) shopped for what I needed, then rang OH to pick me up as it was too heavy to carry


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Yesterday I walked 4.5 miles to town (the quietest route to avoid other people) shopped for what I needed, then rang OH to pick me up as it was too heavy to carry




The strangest thing, is I have always utterly hated shopping (not online, I'm pretty good at that ), but going into shops with other shoppers I couldn't stand.

Now I just want to go in a shop because it will feel normal, preferably the Range, because that was my "favourite" place to go anyway. I have a circular walking route that takes me from my house, past a nature reserve then across the Range car park. I now look longingly at the place because I'm not supposed to go in.

I keep thinking that I CAN go in if I want, but only an idiot would contract Covid without needing to when the vaccinations are so close.

And it's peeing down here today so probably won't get a walk. Although it does keep other folk away which is good.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I dont feel the need to see other people, I am not social at all really - I only miss my family up North. But I would go crazy if I cant get out to stretch my legs. I go for a walk every day, even in the wind and rain. It makes me feel better


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> The strangest thing, is I have always utterly hated shopping (not online, I'm pretty good at that ), but going into shops with other shoppers I couldn't stand.
> 
> Now I just want to go in a shop because it will feel normal, preferably the Range, because that was my "favourite" place to go anyway. I have a circular walking route that takes me from my house, past a nature reserve then across the Range car park. I now look longingly at the place because I'm not supposed to go in.
> 
> I keep thinking that I CAN go in if I want, but only an idiot would contract Covid without needing to when the vaccinations are so close.
> 
> And it's peeing down here today so probably won't get a walk. Although it does keep other folk away which is good.


I agree - no need to risk it for non essentials.

I was buying food yesterday .... for the birds .... but I class that as essential because they rely on me feeding them, especially with the awful weather we've been having.

The woodpecker and jays only come in when it's tough out there and they've been in the garden quite often lately.


HarlequinCat said:


> I dont feel the need to see other people, I am not social at all really - I only miss my family up North. But I would go crazy if I cant get out to stretch my legs. I go for a walk every day, even in the wind and rain. It makes me feel better


I'm able to walk with the 2 friends I'm close to and a neighbour.

The rest (in-laws) I don't miss 

My own family are abroad so they're out of reach for some time to come, sadly.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I agree - no need to risk it for non essentials.
> 
> I was buying food yesterday .... for the birds .... but I class that as essential because they rely on me feeding them, especially with the awful weather we've been having.
> 
> The woodpecker and jays only come in when it's tough out there and they've been in the garden quite often lately.


I've been buying my bird food online.

Sadly I mainly have starlings, jackdaws, magpies and wood pidgeons so nothing really 'exotic'. But they all need feeding.

I buy mealworms in bulk from Chubby Mealworms. They aren't really cheap, but the birds go mad for them :Happy


----------



## Lurcherlad

What I needed was out of stock online


----------



## tabelmabel

Strangely, in normal times im rarely in! And i am very sociable. But never been sporty. I like dog walking and have a couple of regular dog walking buddies but most of my social activity revolves around indoor places - theatre, cinema, eating out. I love the shops, i love being close to lots of people and business.

Im a real city loving kind of person (despite growing up and now living in the country) 


But, apart from the theatre, i have surprised myself by not really missing any of that. Im very content with my radio for company. I dont live alone but im the only one downstairs during the day - they pop down for a bite to eat. Between my dogs, house chores, my jigsaw and posting on here, my days are flying by.

Im not short of things to keep me busy indoors at all.


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> Strangely, in normal times im rarely in! And i am very sociable. But never been sporty. I like dog walking and have a couple of regular dog walking buddies but most of my social activity revolves around indoor places - theatre, cinema, eating out. I love the shops, i love being close to lots of people and business.
> 
> Im a real city loving kind of person (despite growing up and now living in the country)


I really am not a city person. I think the only city I have ever liked has been Edinburgh.

I don't mind the hustle and bustle for a short time, but that's enough

I think the thing I miss the most is cycling with my sister and BIL.

We used to go for miles and I loved stopping for a coffee somewhere or just chatting along the way. Can't wait to get back to that.


----------



## Lurcherlad

From BBC news app....









Couldn't make it up


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> From BBC news app....
> 
> View attachment 460498
> 
> Couldn't make it up


How were they eating at a cafe when cafes are closed?


----------



## ForestWomble

Lockdown has in some ways been great for my anxiety, but since Christmas my mood has suffered. 
Apart from missing my parents and Gran I'm perfectly happy not having to deal with people, if it wasn't for Bungo I'd be more than happy to never go out.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> How were they eating at a cafe when cafes are closed?


Precisely.

Cafes are able to serve takeaways but if the officers had all walked or sat outside together with their food and drink, surely that would have counted as a picnic! 

They don't do themselves any favours sometimes.


----------



## tabelmabel

It is interesting how we are all so different @MilleD isnt it. I grew up in the country and my mum loved walking. She always tried to encourage an interest in nature and i do know quite a few wild flower names. But that's it. I was a lost cause! My mum was very artistic too and i never had any ability whatsoever. She really did not like brash and noisy things at all - and never ever came to blackpool with us; she hated the place!

Yet, i loved all that from a very early age. Even now, in my 50s, i still love theme parks, rollercoasters, and all the fun of the fair! Generally, the brighter and noisier a place is, the more i love it. I really love London. I have never lived there, but i think i could, and very happily!

And i would far rather look out over a city scape than a country one. I am a real people watcher. I love sitting at a high window and just watching the scene below. I could sit for hours, just watching.

And the convenience of having a regular bus service would be great. I wouldnt have a car if i lived in a city. It all sounds very appealing. Not good for keeping cats though!


----------



## mrs phas

tabelmabel said:


> What's the betting the schools don't go back til after Easter?! Just saying . . .


:Smuggrin


----------



## Siskin

It’s weird, my idea of hell would be to live in london. My daughter however, loves it


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> It is interesting how we are all so different @MilleD isnt it. I grew up in the country and my mum loved walking. She always tried to encourage an interest in nature and i do know quite a few wild flower names. But that's it. I was a lost cause! My mum was very artistic too and i never had any ability whatsoever. She really did not like brash and noisy things at all - and never ever came to blackpool with us; she hated the place!
> 
> Yet, i loved all that from a very early age. Even now, in my 50s, i still love theme parks, rollercoasters, and all the fun of the fair! Generally, the brighter and noisier a place is, the more i love it. I really love London. I have never lived there, but i think i could, and very happily!
> 
> And i would far rather look out over a city scape than a country one. I am a real people watcher. I love sitting at a high window and just watching the scene below. I could sit for hours, just watching.
> 
> And the convenience of having a regular bus service would be great. I wouldnt have a car if i lived in a city. It all sounds very appealing. Not good for keeping cats though!


Oh, I adore theme parks - never really been to a huge one, but would love to.

But apart from that, yes, totally different to you. And I utterly detest anything public transport :Shifty

If we were all the same, no-one would keep donkeys.... Or everyone would keep donkeys, who knows?


----------



## rona

Looks like it's taking hold in the care homes again


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Looks like it's taking hold in the care homes again


I saw that on the news, or was it Jeremy Vine. They were wondering how it could have got in, but it seems those lateral flow (is that the right word) tests may not be as reliable as first thought. So visitors thinking they were covid free, might have got false results.


----------



## tabelmabel

Been listening to jeremy vine - all these folks saying they followed the rules at Christmas and met within government guidelines and then got covid and it's been dreadful. One called in to say her relative is currently fighting for their life in intensive care.


Honestly, i dont wish illness on anyone but how can they be surprised? They are all stressing they 'met within guidelines' but they must have known that was not risk free.

I do despair, really.


----------



## ForestWomble

tabelmabel said:


> Been listening to jeremy vine - all these folks saying they followed the rules at Christmas and met within government guidelines and then got covid and it's been dreadful. One called in to say her relative is currently fighting for their life in intensive care.
> 
> Honestly, i dont wish illness on anyone but how can they be surprised? They are all stressing they 'met within guidelines' but they must have known that was not risk free.
> 
> I do despair, really.


Going by some things I've heard sadly I'm not surprised 

As has been mentioned before, common sense seems rare these days.

Slightly different but I remember when I was at school (1990's) we had to have a lesson with matron (all year groups had to do this over the course of a week due to some bug going around) where she was telling us how germs spread and to make sure we washed hands etc, I remember sitting there wondering when she was going to tell me something I _didn't _know.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Been listening to jeremy vine - all these folks saying they followed the rules at Christmas and met within government guidelines and then got covid and it's been dreadful. One called in to say her relative is currently fighting for their life in intensive care.
> 
> Honestly, i dont wish illness on anyone but how can they be surprised? They are all stressing they 'met within guidelines' but they must have known that was not risk free.
> 
> I do despair, really.


Worth remembering at the end of the this lockdown just because Boris says you can go out it doesn't mean it's safe it means there is room for you in ICU.


----------



## tabelmabel

Boxer123 said:


> Worth remembering at the end of the this lockdown just because Boris says you can go out it doesn't mean it's safe it means there is room for you in ICU.


Crumbs, @Boxer123 - that is a harsh punishment for me - what have I done?:Hilarious

Only joking - I know that is a generic 'you'


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Crumbs, @Boxer123 - that is a harsh punishment for me - what have I done?:Hilarious
> 
> Only joking - I know that is a generic 'you'


Ha ha or is it the generic you


----------



## Lurcherlad

DH has his jab booked for 31st Jan .... yay!


----------



## Cully

What happens to all those people who are unable to get to a vaccine centre i.e. no means of transport.
Just wondering!


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> What happens to all those people who are unable to get to a vaccine centre i.e. no means of transport.
> Just wondering!


The parents of my daughter fiancé had this same problem, they have their jabs this week. They live in London and don't have a car now as they rarely used it, but needed to get to where their jabs were being done. They were extremely worried about going on buses or taxis so in the end their son, who is not in a bubble with them, but has been working from home and is careful, took them in his car. Everyone wore masks and they had the windows open


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> What happens to all those people who are unable to get to a vaccine centre i.e. no means of transport.
> Just wondering!


My mum is sort of housebound without getting help to go out so my older sister goes round to help with chores. They got sisters partner to take her to the doctors because she had no other way to get there. Very similar to @Siskin she is in a bubble with my sister. They all wore masks in the car and had windows down

That said she didn't have to go far. 5 mins down the road to her usual gp


----------



## tabelmabel

Scientists are advising hospitality stays shut til_ May _!! Such tough times for that industry.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> What happens to all those people who are unable to get to a vaccine centre i.e. no means of transport.
> Just wondering!


If a person is housebound they have to wait until the vaccine is offered in their own home.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> What happens to all those people who are unable to get to a vaccine centre i.e. no means of transport.
> Just wondering!


I saw a news report where volunteers were taking individuals to have their jabs. All wore masks.


----------



## Siskin

My husbands just said that when he popped into a chemist in a nearby village there was a notice up saying that there were a few vaccination for covid available for under 70’s which struck me as odd.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> My husbands just said that when he popped into a chemist in a nearby village there was a notice up saying that there were a few vaccination for covid available for under 70's which struck me as odd.


 That does seem a bit odd. I thought people could only be vaccinated if they received an invite, a notice in a chemist saying they have them available sounds like they will give a vaccine to anyone wishing to book one!


----------



## Babyshoes

My guess is that they have spares after folks don't turn up for appointments. Better to give them to someone who can get there at short notice than to throw it away, I guess.


----------



## Siskin

Babyshoes said:


> My guess is that they have spares after folks don't turn up for appointments. Better to give them to someone who can get there at short notice than to throw it away, I guess.


I wondered about this, it was the age group that puzzled me. If they had said under 75's my husband would have had it done there and then as he's still waiting for an invite


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Babyshoes said:


> My guess is that they have spares after folks don't turn up for appointments. Better to give them to someone who can get there at short notice than to throw it away, I guess.


 Yes but I still didnt think people could make their own appointments?


----------



## Siskin

3dogs2cats said:


> Yes but I still didnt think people could make their own appointments?


Neither did I which was why we found it so strange


----------



## Arny

A friends mum had the nhs letter but it was too far to travel.
They saw a local pharmacy was administering the vaccine (before our gp got it) so booked there.
Maybe you can book at pharmacy's?


----------



## Nonnie

Quite a few people in my area have attended their appointments, asked if their family member/carer that have taken them can also have one, and if there was spare stock they have been able to.

Maybe its a case of asking.


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> Quite a few people in my area have attended their appointments, asked if their family member/carer that have taken them can also have one, and if there was spare stock they have been able to.
> 
> Maybe its a case of asking.


I did ask when mine was being done if my husband could have his, but I was told no


----------



## Nonnie

Siskin said:


> I did ask when mine was being done if my husband could have his, but I was told no


Was it a late appointment?

I think these were, and it was just a case of not wasting stock as it has to be binned if not used.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> I saw a news report where volunteers were taking individuals to have their jabs. All wore masks.


Was that "Cabs for Jabs" by any chance?
I think it was in Tonbridge and taxi drivers who were fed up sitting in their cabs all days just reading newspapers decided to provide a service to the locals who needed transport for their jabs. People just donate what they can afford, which is very useful when you consider how far some people are expected to have to travel. Twice if you include the 2nd jab!
It's a brilliant idea as long as the cabs remain covid safe.


----------



## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> Was it a late appointment?
> 
> I think these were, and it was just a case of not wasting stock as it has to be binned if not used.


4.30 which when I booked was the last one shown on the day.whether there was more later on I can't say


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Was that "Cabs for Jabs" by any chance?
> I think it was in Tonbridge and taxi drivers who were fed up sitting in their cabs all days just reading newspapers decided to provide a service to the locals who needed transport for their jabs. People just donate what they can afford, which is very useful when you consider how far some people are expected to have to travel. Twice if you include the 2nd jab!
> It's a brilliant idea as long as the cabs remain covid safe.


No, these were private individuals who wanted to help out. I don't think money changed hands (it wasn't mentioned).


----------



## HarlequinCat

Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid. Can't help but think some silly people will go out and try to catch it deliberately if so. Who thinks these ideas up?


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid. Can't help but think some silly people will go out and try to catch it deliberately if so. Who thinks these ideas up?


How utterly ridiculous.


----------



## tabelmabel

HarlequinCat said:


> Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid. Can't help but think some silly people will go out and try to catch it deliberately if so. Who thinks these ideas up?


I heard this too on the news but it did say it has been a leek from some paper and the plan is very unlikely to come to fruition. It hasnt reached Boris yet - just mentioned in Whitehall.

I agree - daft!


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> I heard this too on the news but it did say it has been a leek from some paper and the plan is very unlikely to come to fruition. It hasnt reached Boris yet - just mentioned in Whitehall.
> 
> I agree - daft!


It's crackers. A lot of the idiots that have caught it have done so because they have broken the rules. So that should be rewarded?

It does sound like media sh!te again to be honest. Like disbanding support bubbles.


----------



## tabelmabel

I think the idea is that the payment is to encourage people to self isolate. But lack of money probably isnt the main reason people continue to work when they should be isolating.

That doesnt fix the employer's problem - he still has an employee absent for 2 weeks and others that can take the spot.

And self employed will still lose clients during their isolation and work.

These folk dont want to stop work as they are feared that any days off will cause job loss. 500 quid is not going to stop them going to work.


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> I think the idea is that the payment is to encourage people to self isolate. But lack of money probably isnt the main reason people continue to work when they should be isolating.
> 
> That doesnt fix the employer's problem - he still has an employee absent for 2 weeks and others that can take the spot.
> 
> And self employed will still lose clients during their isolation and work.
> 
> These folk dont want to stop work as they are feared that any days off will cause job loss. 500 quid is not going to stop them going to work.


And there is probably nothing to stop folks taking the money AND still going to work...


----------



## tabelmabel

MilleD said:


> And there is probably nothing to stop folks taking the money AND still going to work...


Absolutely!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

They broke up and Wedding party with 400 guests yesterday, they blacked out the windows so people could see in and that was going to work was it.


----------



## Cully

HarlequinCat said:


> Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid. Can't help but think some silly people will go out and try to catch it deliberately if so. Who thinks these ideas up?


Can't possibly be serious! Maybe those of us who have made sacrifices to keep everyone safe should be financially rewarded instead.
Maybe those who catch covid by being idiots should be fined for putting other decent people at risk!! Name and shame them?
Are we entering the 'silly season' by any chance?


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> They broke up and Wedding party with 400 guests yesterday, they blacked out the windows so people could see in and that was going to work was it.


Yes - organisers fined 10k but no mention of any fines for the guests . . .


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> Yes - organisers fined 10k but *no mention of any fines for the guests *. . .


They caught a few but a lot ran away, the police have asked for a guest list so they can find them.


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid. Can't help but think some silly people will go out and try to catch it deliberately if so. Who thinks these ideas up?


Apparently, it was a suggestion put forward by officials but got no further.

A dumb idea imo.

By all means make it easier for those in genuine need to get help but most people won't need to.


----------



## Siskin

Boris is giving a press conference currently.
Apparently it has been found that the new variant from Kent is showing that it causes i higher risk of mortality. Scary


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. Just found out that 46 of the 52 local cases are from one place, a young offenders institution. I hope/ expect that they will all be ok as they are teenagers or working age staff. Shocking that they obviously haven’t followed good procedures.

Selfishly I am relieved that so many cases are from one source. It was very worrying having a huge number!


----------



## kimthecat

It;s been one year since I started this thread. What a year! I never dreamt it would be as bad as this and its not over yet by a long way.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> It;s been one year since I started this thread. What a year! I never dreamt it would be as bad as this and its not over yet by a long way.


Doesn't time fly when you're having... oh, wait


----------



## willa

kimthecat said:


> It;s been one year since I started this thread. What a year! I never dreamt it would be as bad as this and its not over yet by a long way.


We are in a real mess, the worst it's been since all this started


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> It;s been one year since I started this thread. What a year! I never dreamt it would be as bad as this and its not over yet by a long way.


Looking back I can't believe how flippant I was, thinking only about Adam and his Japan trip
I know they say hindsight is 20/20
but
A year on, with most of it spent shielding, I'd like to apologise to any, and all, people who have been touched by this insidious virus, directly and indirectly


----------



## simplysardonic

MilleD said:


> Doesn't time fly when you're having... oh, wait


I've always found January in normal times can be measured in months rather than weeks, but pandemic lockdown January I think I'm measuring in years


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> Looking back I can believe how flippant I was, thinking only about Adam and his Japan trip
> I know they say hindsight is 20/20
> but
> A year on, with most of it spent shielding, I'd like to apologise to any, and all, people who have been touched by this insidious virus, directly and indirectly


You and everyone else @mrs phas including Boris. I don't think anyone could have imagined we'd be here. Apart from maybe @catz4m8z who said on page 2 we are due a pandemic. I remember last Christmas being away with my sister watching the news and saying 'I'm glad I'm not in China now.' Here we are a year later and they are back to normal.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Last January we were just hearing about it, I like an idiot, said it's over the side of the world we have nothing to worry about.  How wrong was I. Here we are 11 months on from lockdown and no better off than it was in March and when we have the jab, we still have to stay in doors wear masks when we go out as they think we'll still be able to spread the virus even if we can't caught it. I think it will be next before we get anywhere never the old normal if ever. Just hope I'm wrong


----------



## SusieRainbow

January has always been a low time for me, this year more than ever. But I feel so fortunate to have my lovely husband and dogs, all my family are safe and well.
However I think and worry about the homeless and those that live alone, they are so vulnerable, life for many of them must be pretty grim .


----------



## Siskin

Looking back I remembered when I was in hospital for a couple of days at the end of February and a coughing lady was brought in to the bed next to me late at night. She told me that her sister had recently come home from living in China arriving with a cold and chest infection which she had passed on. The night staff thought it wasn’t anything to worry about, the day staff decided it was something to worry about and stuck her in isolation and moved me to an isolated part. When I left the next day I was told I would be contacted if the lady did have coronavirus, I wasn’t contacted and assume all was ok and I was anyway, but it could have been so different.


----------



## catz4m8z

Boxer123 said:


> Apart from maybe @catz4m8z who said on page 2 we are due a pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> But then on page 3 I lose all my future telling points by saying its just like the flu...only abit worse!:Banghead:Shy
> I dont think any of us thought things would be so bad for so long. Lets hope this time next year is a different story!
Click to expand...


----------



## Happy Paws2

And another one 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55778930


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> And another one
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55778930


I really feel for the police at the moment I do hope they prioritise them for the vaccine.


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> And another one
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55778930


Classic case of thinking that money puts you above the law there.

I bet they didn't wait to be fined, bet there were a lot of drugs involved.


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> Looking back I remembered when I was in hospital for a couple of days at the end of February and a coughing lady was brought in to the bed next to me late at night. She told me that her sister had recently come home from living in China arriving with a cold and chest infection which she had passed on. The night staff thought it wasn't anything to worry about, the day staff decided it was something to worry about and stuck her in isolation and moved me to an isolated part. When I left the next day I was told I would be contacted if the lady did have coronavirus, I wasn't contacted and assume all was ok and I was anyway, but it could have been so different.


My husband was seriously ill throughout December & January, we almost lost him this time last year pretty much to the day.
A friend of mine, bit of a conspiracy theorist, said to me after he was discharged the last time 'could he have had that new flu they've been talking about?' & I told her it was a ridiculous idea.

Fast forward a year & I really do wonder if she might have been right, especially after we'd spoken to a distant family member who was one of the nurses on his ward.



SusieRainbow said:


> January has always been a low time for me, this year more than ever. But I feel so fortunate to have my lovely husband and dogs, all my family are safe and well.
> However I think and worry about the homeless and those that live alone, they are so vulnerable, life for many of them must be pretty grim .


 We do have to try & count our blessing, no matter how small.


----------



## SusieRainbow

simplysardonic said:


> My husband was seriously ill throughout December & January, we almost lost him this time last year pretty much to the day.
> A friend of mine, bit of a conspiracy theorist, said to me after he was discharged the last time 'could he have had that new flu they've been talking about?' & I told her it was a ridiculous idea.
> 
> Fast forward a year & I really do wonder if she might have been right, especially after we'd spoken to a distant family member who was one of the nurses on his ward.
> 
> We do have to try & count our blessing, no matter how small.


I often get bad colds/flu with a chesty cough in January/February, say no more ! So far this year, so good, probably due to Covid restrictions and precautions. 
It's 5 years next week since I lost my brother so unexpectedly , probably due to pneumonia.
The trouble with lock-down is gives you too much time to think and reflect.
I'm so glad your husband recovered, hopefully with no lasting effects.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Heathrow  Where are these people going?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...tancing-concerns-12196069?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


----------



## Siskin

Pawscrossed said:


> Heathrow  Where are these people going?
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...tancing-concerns-12196069?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


Good heavens. I thought nowhere wanted Brits in their country in case we bought our nasty bug with us. The last place I would want to be is on a plane with a whole load of strangers at the moment


----------



## Happy Paws2

Pawscrossed said:


> Heathrow  Where are these people going?
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...tancing-concerns-12196069?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


That's a worrying sight, hopefully they are just leaving not coming back.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Good heavens. I thought nowhere wanted Brits in their country in case we bought our nasty bug with us. The last place I would want to be is on a plane with a whole load of strangers at the moment


And vice versa!


----------



## rona

Just reported a covid breach


----------



## Guest

Pawscrossed said:


> Heathrow  Where are these people going?
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...tancing-concerns-12196069?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


I thought Boris closed all air corridors?
I wouldn't like to be at Heathrow with all those people there or on any plans.


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Just reported a covid breach


Well done 
I know you probably feel really bad for doing so
But 
If more people did, we, just, might be in less of a pickle, than we are now


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> Well done
> I know you probably feel really bad for doing so
> But
> If more people did, we, just, might be in less of a pickle, than we are now


I've seen it for several weeks and couldn't understand how people were still going there. Checked today and the place is supposed to be closed, it's a skate park. Today it was obvious that it's become the place to meet 
A fairly large group of youths, all sitting together having a catch up, then there's the 30 or so children using the park and the odd parent sitting gassing. Just a covid swapping site


----------



## daveos

rona said:


> Just reported a covid breach


Good for you Rona I did the same a while ago, You did the right thing more people need to do this it is a duty of everybody in the UK.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rawpawsrus said:


> *I thought Boris closed all air corridors?*
> I wouldn't like to be at Heathrow with all those people there or on any plans.


Isn't that from next Monday the 25th


----------



## Guest

Happy Paws2 said:


> Isn't that from next Monday the 25th


No they closed on the 18th January according to this:- https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors#:~:text=Print this page-,Travel corridors suspended,test to travel to England.

It's seems it is only people arriving in the UK.


----------



## simplysardonic

SusieRainbow said:


> I often get bad colds/flu with a chesty cough in January/February, say no more ! So far this year, so good, probably due to Covid restrictions and precautions.
> It's 5 years next week since I lost my brother so unexpectedly , probably due to pneumonia.
> The trouble with lock-down is gives you too much time to think and reflect.
> *I'm so glad your husband recovered, hopefully with no lasting effects*.


It's hard to say, he'd already had to give up work due to a degenerative spinal condition, but after his illnesses he was diagnosed with asthma & COPD as well, which may or may not be linked to whatever he had.

Ironically he gave up smoking just a couple of months before he got ill!


----------



## SusieRainbow

simplysardonic said:


> Ironically he gave up smoking just a couple of months before he got ill!


Typical!
I gave up smoking 10 years ago, a year later was diagnosed with T2 Diabetes !


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> A fairly large group of youths, all sitting together having a catch up, then there's the 30 or so children using the park and the odd parent sitting gassing. Just a covid swapping site


I think this kind of thing has not been helped by the government banging on about how it's do dangerous for the elderly and vunerable
And 
The sending of the children back to school because it wasn't dangerous for them 
Kids, like our dogs, live in the here and now, they don't think about tomorrow, next week or next month 
They don't think about going home and drinking out of a juice carton, hugging their mum, sharing a bag of crisps or giving granny a kiss, can be dangerous, due to the fact their bestie may be asymptomatic, or have been in contact with someone who tested positive 
Let's face it adults have enough problems with all the rules and regs and we know for certain, we can, and do, die from catching the virus
They think they're invincible anyway, and BJ and his cronies have all but backed them, during this last year, so they don't see what they're doing as wrong 
That's why it IS important to report these things, THEY might not be affected, but how many could they go on to infect?


----------



## Jobeth

There is some indication that children are less likely to pass it on. Hopefully that's correct considering that special schools, PRUs and nurseries are fully open whilst mainstream schools are partially open. It's also still perfectly safe (according to the government) for adults not to wear masks whilst in the classroom.

For those that work in schools: https://fb.watch/3cn-h8yUkC/


----------



## Bisbow

About this time last year OH went down with an awful cough, a raging temperature and a lousy headache
"Man flu" says he and retires to bed
I kept him supplied with drinks and headache pills, he did not want to eat for about 4 days before he surfaced again and took about 2 weeks to fully recover
We knew little or nothing about the virus then but I am convinced that is what he had
I did not catch it for some reason but any anti bodies he had have long since gone and I don't know for shre if you can get it twice
Some reports say you can and some say you can't


----------



## simplysardonic

Bisbow said:


> About this time last year OH went down with an awful cough, a raging temperature and a lousy headache
> "Man flu" says he and retires to bed
> I kept him supplied with drinks and headache pills, he did not want to eat for about 4 days before he surfaced again and took about 2 weeks to fully recover
> We knew little or nothing about the virus then but I am convinced that is what he had
> *I did not catch it for some reason* but any anti bodies he had have long since gone and I don't know for shre if you can get it twice
> Some reports say you can and some say you can't


It seems to work that way- when my OH was ill no one else had anything similar, & when we were self isolating after a family member caught it & tested positive in November, she was unwell but not seriously so.

My OH & my daughter had temeratures & ordered tests but my OH's never came back (according to them it 'got lost', always good to know there's biohazardous material just disappearing like that!) & my daughter's was negative.


----------



## Arny

Bisbow said:


> any anti bodies he had have long since gone


Not necessarily. My family member still has high levels of antibodies nearly a year on.
They donate convalescent plasma so they get told what the level is each time. 
Its the only way they were confirmed to have even had it as when they caught it only people in hospital were being tested.


----------



## Blackadder

Bisbow said:


> I don't know for shre if you can get it twice
> Some reports say you can and some say you can't


There have been almost 100 million official cases worldwide (the actual number will be far higher) & only 5 or 6 official cases of a 2nd infection!

Basically, if you've had it once you won't get it again...unless something changes


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Magyarmum

A very heartening story from our local newspaper. A lady living in one of the town's care homes has just recovered from Covid-19.

She'll be celebrating her 106th birthday on March 6th.


----------



## tabelmabel

Bisbow said:


> About this time last year OH went down with an awful cough, a raging temperature and a lousy headache
> "Man flu" says he and retires to bed
> I kept him supplied with drinks and headache pills, he did not want to eat for about 4 days before he surfaced again and took about 2 weeks to fully recover
> We knew little or nothing about the virus then but I am convinced that is what he had
> I did not catch it for some reason but any anti bodies he had have long since gone and I don't know for shre if you can get it twice
> Some reports say you can and some say you can't


It's a funny thing but, over Christmas 2019, my daughter and I both came down with an illness with very similar symptoms to covid - raging temperature and cough. Mine went right to my chest and i was struggling to breathe - ended up at the dr and got anti biotics.

The anti biotics did seem to help though, and fast - which would suggest a bacterial infection rather than viral.

My daughter recovered herself but was very ill for a full 2 weeks and her cough was constant throughout.

It wasnt flu as we were both fully recovered in 2 weeks (have had flu before and know that goes on much longer)

It was december 2019 so probably not covid but it sure was something causing very similar symptoms.


----------



## tabelmabel

Magyarmum said:


> A very heartening story from our local newspaper. A lady living in one of the town's care homes has just recovered from Covid-19.
> 
> She'll be celebrating her 106th birthday on March 6th.


There was a lady on our tv news the other night had recovered and she was 105 too. Amazing!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Powerful piece of writing. If you're feeling fragile, don't read it, it demonstrates well the increases in pressure at the end of the year. I can only imagine it's worse now 

https://www.ft.com/content/2b0dbba3...k7brTJU3nkclPWpzz97o6JSN04eJqwSEl4v5GBqP_S6vw


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jobeth said:


> There is some indication that children are less likely to pass it on. Hopefully that's correct considering that special schools, PRUs and nurseries are fully open whilst mainstream schools are partially open. It's also still perfectly safe (according to the government) for adults not to wear masks whilst in the classroom.
> 
> For those that work in schools: https://fb.watch/3cn-h8yUkC/


I honestly can't see how they can say kids don't pass it on.

Even if not via breath, droplets etc. if they have the virus without symptoms, but surely if their hands are contaminated they are just as germ ridden as an adult with a contaminated hand?

And less likely to have good hand hygiene or social distance.

I'm not convinced.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Powerful piece of writing. If you're feeling fragile, don't read it, it demonstrates well the increases in pressure at the end of the year. I can only imagine it's worse now
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/2b0dbba3...k7brTJU3nkclPWpzz97o6JSN04eJqwSEl4v5GBqP_S6vw


Very powerful


----------



## Jobeth

Lurcherlad said:


> I honestly can't see how they can say kids don't pass it on.
> 
> Even if not via breath, droplets etc. if they have the virus without symptoms, but surely if their hands are contaminated they are just as germ ridden as an adult with a contaminated hand?
> 
> And less likely to have good hand hygiene or social distance.
> 
> I'm not convinced.


They use hand sanitiser frequently in schools but here is one study: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/we-now-know-how-much-children-spread-coronavirus/


----------



## Lurcherlad

Under normal circumstances, kids spread coughs, colds and stomach bugs like wildfire between them in nurseries, schools and within families so I can’t see Covid being any different tbh.


----------



## Jobeth

Lurcherlad said:


> Under normal circumstances, kids spread coughs, colds and stomach bugs like wildfire between them in nurseries, schools and within families so I can't see Covid being any different tbh.


I know what you mean. It's interesting that newly qualified teachers always seem to catch everything in their first year but experienced teachers rarely do.


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> Under normal circumstances, kids spread coughs, colds and stomach bugs like wildfire between them in nurseries, schools and within families so I can't see Covid being any different tbh.


There are two paediatricians in my family, and they agree with the research. Younger children don't see the don't seem to catch the virus as readily as older children or adults, and if they do get it they don't shed the virus anywhere near as much so fewer people catch it from them.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jesthar said:


> There are two paediatricians in my family, and they agree with the research. Younger children don't see the don't seem to catch the virus as readily as older children or adults, and* if they do get it they don't shed the virus anywhere near as much so fewer people catch it from them*.


Yes.... but some people do, so they need to keep the schools closed.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I remember last September, 2019, I found out my mum had pneumonia. She had to have a doctor visit her and had to be put on 2 different antibiotics. She had visited the zoo and develop what she thought was an odd cold. She didnt have a runny nose which she usually gets, she just felt a bit run down then had a cough. From then on she started having trouble breathing and had a fever. Luckily she had a nurse friend who told her to call a doctor. 
The doctor even wanted her to go to the hospital but she refused because she has a phobia. even December 2019 she hadnt fully recovered and was still breathless and low apetite. Even if it wasnt covid whatever she had was nasty


----------



## Jesthar

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yes.... but some people do, so they need to keep the schools closed.


I don't believe I mentioned anything about opening them. Just talking about the science, that's all...


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jesthar said:


> There are two paediatricians in my family, and they agree with the research. Younger children don't see the don't seem to catch the virus as readily as older children or adults, and if they do get it they don't shed the virus anywhere near as much so fewer people catch it from them.


I'm not talking about them spreading it by shedding, where they have the virus - but spreading it manually, which I don't see is any less likely by children than adults - more likely in my view.


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm not talking about them spreading it by shedding, where they have the virus - but spreading it manually, which I don't see is any less likely by children than adults - more likely in my view.


As I understand it, surface transmission isn't considered a major transmission vector, with respiritory transition being the primary vector and aerosol being a possible second. Coronavirus can persist on inanimate surfaces for a while, but all lab attempts to culture from such surface deposits fail, indicatign the virus quickly becomes non-viable once it impacts such a surface.


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> There are two paediatricians in my family, and they agree with the research. Younger children don't see the don't seem to catch the virus as readily as older children or adults, and if they do get it they don't shed the virus anywhere near as much so fewer people catch it from them.


But they only have to spread one droplet, for an adult to pick it up
Then
Bingo bongo that adult, until such time as they feel so bad they go or get sent for a test
is spreading it willy nilly to everyone they meet and a spreading event is created
Causing the R to rise
But the children didn't spread it, did they
No
But
the child was the causal root


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> But they only have to spread one droplet, for an adult to pick it up
> Then
> Bingo bongo that adult, until such time as they feel so bad they go or get sent for a test
> is spreading it willy nilly to everyone they meet and a spreading event is created
> Causing the R to rise
> But the children didn't spread it, did they
> No
> But
> the child was the causal root


They're not saying it's impossible, they are saying it is statistically much less likely. That's all.

I believe I've said this before, but the biggest risk coronavirus wise at an open primary/junior schools is parents at the school gate failing to social distance or wear masks, or it spreading through the staff.

Again, I'm making no comments on the open/close schools part, just talking about the science.


----------



## mrs phas

I don't know how accurate this is
But
I was told, yesterday, that there have been 64 changes of directives, since last shutdown
Masks, there's no point -now everyone has to wear one
Go about your daily business as usual - work from home if possible
Are just two that comes straight to my mind


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> I don't know how accurate this is
> But
> I was told, yesterday, that there have been 64 changes of directives, since last shutdown
> Masks, there's no point -now everyone has to wear one
> Go about your daily business as usual - work from home if possible
> Are just two that comes straight to my mind


That's to be expected. We have to remember we're dealing with a brand new virus we didn't know a thing about at the time and had to make some assumptions about the way it works, not all of which could be correct. As research happens and we understand it better, we adapt the rules in response.

Work from home if possible has been one of the longest standing directives, though - I've been doing it for about ten months and I'm still loving it


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Powerful piece of writing. If you're feeling fragile, don't read it, it demonstrates well the increases in pressure at the end of the year. I can only imagine it's worse now
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/2b0dbba3...k7brTJU3nkclPWpzz97o6JSN04eJqwSEl4v5GBqP_S6vw


I do vaguely know Tim in that way this city works and via the university, and how he says how we are all reassured by Addenbrookes and everyone knows someone here, yes so true. This makes this so painful to read.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> £500 handout to anyone who catches covid


 Think I read it was for _self-isolating_ if you even think you have symptoms. Totally bonkers really. A convenient bandwagon to jump on.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Think I read it was for _self-isolating_ if you even think you have symptoms. Totally bonkers really. A convenient bandwagon to jump on.


They said on the News that the government have denied it.


----------



## MollySmith

A huge list of Covid support resources shared via Twitter

https://www.sussex.ac.uk/research/p...ort-and-mutual-aid/mutual-aid-other-resources


----------



## Linda Weasel

Calvine said:


> Think I read it was for _self-isolating_ if you even think you have symptoms. Totally bonkers really. A convenient bandwagon to jump on.


I think there should be something....
I was recently in contact with somebody who tested positive for COVID.

I could have kept quiet and just gone to work regardless, risking that, were I infected, I could infect my work colleagues. But I couldn't do that.

So I told my boss I would self-isolate at home, and they obviously didn't want me at work anyway.

Happily I didn't develop anything, but I spent 10 days at home and I won't get paid (even SSP) for that because I wasn't told to self-isolate via the 'test and trace' website. Despite us both being on it.

I'm prepared to take the financial hit, although it won't be easy, but how many people would feel that they couldn't do that and would rather just go to work, hope for the best and risk it?


----------



## rona

Linda Weasel said:


> Happily I didn't develop anything, but I spent 10 days at home and I won't get paid (even SSP) for that because I wasn't told to self-isolate via the 'test and trace' website. Despite us both being on it.


OH didn't get anything,even though he was contacted via test & trace. Apparently we aren't poor enough, even though we only have an income less than half the average national income


----------



## Blackadder

Linda Weasel said:


> I think there should be something....
> I was recently in contact with somebody who tested positive for COVID.
> 
> I could have kept quiet and just gone to work regardless, risking that, were I infected, I could infect my work colleagues. But I couldn't do that.
> 
> So I told my boss I would self-isolate at home, and they obviously didn't want me at work anyway.
> 
> Happily I didn't develop anything, but I spent 10 days at home and I won't get paid (even SSP) for that because I wasn't told to self-isolate via the 'test and trace' website. Despite us both being on it.
> 
> I'm prepared to take the financial hit, although it won't be easy, but how many people would feel that they couldn't do that and would rather just go to work, hope for the best and risk it?


Good for you!! What you have to remember though is that those making these decisions are not taking any financial hit whatsoever & really have no idea how the majority of people live!


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> I know what you mean. It's interesting that newly qualified teachers always seem to catch everything in their first year but experienced teachers rarely do.


I remember the first year we lived in South Africa, I seemed to spend a lot of time visiting the doctor with minor illnesses, something I'd never done before in my life. On one visit I mentioned I couldn't understand why this was so and he laughed and told me it was quite normal for someone who was new to a country and due to the fact that as a foreigner I didn't have an immunity to the ordinary South African bugs but would have by the time I'd lived there for a year.


----------



## Jobeth

Deleted


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> They said on the News that the government have denied it.


Let's hope so, but it was a credible source that I read (I mean, not The Beano).


----------



## Calvine

Pet cats and dogs may need their own Covid vaccine, scientists suggest | Evening Standard

Well, this would lead to pets being dumped right, left and centre, so let's hope it's not true.


----------



## Gemmaa

Calvine said:


> Pet cats and dogs may need their own Covid vaccine, scientists suggest | Evening Standard
> 
> Well, this would lead to pets being dumped right, left and centre, so let's hope it's not true.


I'm glad my boys are naturally socially distant


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> Pet cats and dogs may need their own Covid vaccine, scientists suggest | Evening Standard
> 
> Well, this would lead to pets being dumped right, left and centre, so let's hope it's not true.


I just read this too. Never mind that the vast majority of modern day epidemics are spread by intensive factory farming practises....no, its clearly your dog or your cat who is Typhoid Mary!!
:Banghead


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just remembered didn't they say back in April not to fuss other peoples dogs as they could be carrying the virus. _Well I'd forgot that one_, I've made a fuss of a few dogs on flexi-leads that have come to me when I've been in the front garden, well you can't just ignore them can you.


----------



## Calvine

Gemmaa said:


> I'm glad my boys are naturally socially distant


 Yip . . . I've a girl who wouldn't give you the time of day.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I've seen it for several weeks and couldn't understand how people were still going there. Checked today and the place is supposed to be closed, it's a skate park. Today it was obvious that it's become the place to meet
> A fairly large group of youths, all sitting together having a catch up, then there's the 30 or so children using the park and the odd parent sitting gassing. Just a covid swapping site


 I think you did the right thing. I haven't seen it for myself, but have heard from a couple of people that a local garden centre has become the ''in'' place for kids to meet up.


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> Powerful piece of writing. If you're feeling fragile, don't read it, it demonstrates well the increases in pressure at the end of the year. I can only imagine it's worse now
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/2b0dbba3...k7brTJU3nkclPWpzz97o6JSN04eJqwSEl4v5GBqP_S6vw


 Thank you for sharing this; Lord, what an eye-opener, really horrifying article. But yes, you wonder if it still might get worse before it gets better (and to think we were told quite glibly that the first lockdown was going to be three weeks and that should be it).


----------



## MollySmith

Linda Weasel said:


> I think there should be something....
> I was recently in contact with somebody who tested positive for COVID.
> 
> I could have kept quiet and just gone to work regardless, risking that, were I infected, I could infect my work colleagues. But I couldn't do that.
> 
> So I told my boss I would self-isolate at home, and they obviously didn't want me at work anyway.
> 
> Happily I didn't develop anything, but I spent 10 days at home and I won't get paid (even SSP) for that because I wasn't told to self-isolate via the 'test and trace' website. Despite us both being on it.
> 
> I'm prepared to take the financial hit, although it won't be easy, but how many people would feel that they couldn't do that and would rather just go to work, hope for the best and risk it?


That's just ridiculous isn't it? So much for being vigilant and careful. I'm so sorry, it's unfair. I hope you stay well.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> Saw that the government plan to give a £500 handout to anyone who catches covid.


I do remember that towards the end of lockdown 1, it was hinted that everyone would be given £X00, (I believe in the form of vouchers) to spend in participating retail outlets . . . to get people spending and money moving. This suggestion was quickly taken off the table and replaced by the ''eat out to help out'' scheme which most people think likely contributed to the spread and re-emergence of the virus.


----------



## MilleD




----------



## Happy Paws2

It's getting harder for me to remember life before Covid, it's been nearly twelve months and life staying in has be come normal, the thought of going out isn't something I look forward anymore.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I know what you mean @Happy Paws2 - I'm in no hurry to go anywhere there are other people, that's for sure.

Just glad I'm able to get out for country walks with a friend, OH or Jack every day.


----------



## daveos

Wow can't believe the way the EU are behaving and also Germany telling lies about the Oxford vaccine.
They have been very slow with there vaccine rollout now they are showing themselves to be very spiteful I was a remainer bit at the moment am glad we are no longer a member this is not the time to try to point score we should be helping all countries.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-26/covid-vaccine-what-is-the-dispute-between-the-eu-and-astrazeneca

The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50 million vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AstraZeneca a full three months before the EU did - which gave AstraZeneca an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems).

Here is the important timeline.

In May AstraZeneca reached an agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine.

In fact Oxford had already started work on the supply chain.

The following month AstraZeneca reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was June 13.

But, the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal.

The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU.

So there were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August.

What is frustrating for AstraZeneca is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites.

The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected.

The problem is in the course of being sorted.

AstraZeneca say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted.

It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented amounts for no profit.

AstraZeneca is not blaming the EU.

But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already have been sorted.

A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

PS. According to AstraZeneca, the EU claim that it pays less to AstraZeneca per dose, and that is why AstraZeneca "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect".

It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs.


----------



## daveos

I think as seen on the news people in Europe are getting very impatient with there governments Germany are way behind with vaccinations, Riots for the last 3 nights in the Netherlands think this has spooked the EU now they are looking for somebody to blame they can only blame themselves for being slow of the start.
The only thing our government got right during this was the vaccinations so far everything else has been a total shambles we have all had enough.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm absolutely disgusted, just heard BJ giving a briefing, all he was talking about was the country pulling together later on and to have a memorial for everyone who has died and everyone who has helped NHS Cares ect.... Doesn't he know we are a long way away from getting over this pandemic, to even think about something like that. I find it hard we are over 100.000 deaths and a lot more to come to even think about something like that. I know we will do something like that later but it's to soon to be talking about.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm absolutely disgusted, just heard BJ giving a briefing, all he was talking about was the country pulling together later on and to have a memorial for everyone who has died and everyone who has helped NHS Cares ect.... Doesn't he know we are a long way away from getting over this pandemic, to even think about something like that. I find it hard we are over 100.000 deaths and a lot more to come to even think about something like that. I know we will do something like that later but it's to soon to be talking about.


He won't take any responsibility either just blundering over questions about whether the government did everything the could.

Missed cobra meetings 
Cheltenham 
No PPE
Leaving boarders open 
Late lockdown 
Early to open

I would have so much more respect if they admitted they made mistakes.


----------



## daveos

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm absolutely disgusted, just heard BJ giving a briefing, all he was talking about was the country pulling together later on and to have a memorial for everyone who has died and everyone who has helped NHS Cares ect.... Doesn't he know we are a long way away from getting over this pandemic, to even think about something like that. I find it hard we are over 100.000 deaths and a lot more to come to even think about something like that. I know we will do something like that later but it's to soon to be talking about.


Agree with you on this 100 percent we have a long way to go yet this governments handling has been awful to late to close border to late for lockdowns not hard enough with lockdowns they have to take the blame for the deaths far to many so sad for a lot of families.


----------



## Siskin

Well I suppose we need something to look forward to.


On another subject
My husband downloaded the trace and track app on his phone which he has switched on most days. during December my next door neighbour was tested for covid and was positive. Luckily he didn’t have it seriously and has recovered. I don’t know exactly how T and T works exactly, but my husband didn’t receive a text at all. How close do you have to be to someone for the app to text you


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> How close do you have to be to someone for the app to text you


Within 2 metres for 15 minutes or more or less than a metre for any length of time.


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Agree with you on this 100 percent we have a long way to go yet this governments handling has been awful to late to close border to late for lockdowns not hard enough with lockdowns they have to take the blame for the deaths far to many so sad for a lot of families.


Didn't you say that you thought that support bubbles should be got rid of? I'm not sure I would personally want a harder lockdown.

The simple reason we are where we are is because people can't follow the bloody rules.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> The simple reason we are where we are is because people can't follow the bloody rules.


This..

I actually thought my area was bad. However, my dentist was telling me how her daughter who is a police officer and where she is stationed. Which I will not state as it my cause offense to others, or it might not be their experience their if they have been following rules. However, she told me areas where she is stationed are still acting like there isn't a lockdown and have had high cases of Covid-19.


----------



## rona

https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/case/en/58537

Well, I wonder what's being hidden this time!

https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/case/en/57422

Can anyone find the conclusion to these?


----------



## kimthecat

Tonight on BBC 2 China and the Pandemic. Part 1 Investigation into the initial Covid 19 outbreak in Wuhan.


----------



## Siskin

Arny said:


> Within 2 metres for 15 minutes or more or less than a metre for any length of time.


Maybe that's it. Haven't seen him for ages especially last month. Our houses are quite close together and during better weather when we are likely to be outside we often end up having a chat over the fence and we probably be close enough during normal times, less so with social distancing. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> Maybe that's it. Haven't seen him for ages especially last month. Our houses are quite close together and during better weather when we are likely to be outside we often end up having a chat over the fence and we probably be close enough during normal times, less so with social distancing. Thanks for the answer.


The track and trace app uses blue tooth to detect the proximity of another phone with the track and trace app. Blue tooth was never designed as a way to measure proximity so calculating how close someone else might be (well their phone) depends on various factors which affect the signal. Walls, the person's body being between the phone and the other phone, the number of other blue tooth enables phones locally. It's a bit of a blunt tool so may or may not always work well but as a quick(ish) fairly unsophisticated solution it's better than nothing.


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> Maybe that's it. Haven't seen him for ages especially last month. Our houses are quite close together and during better weather when we are likely to be outside we often end up having a chat over the fence and we probably be close enough during normal times, less so with social distancing. Thanks for the answer.


That was fortunate and good that your neighbour has recovered well.


kittih said:


> The track and trace app uses blue tooth to detect the proximity of another phone with the track and trace app. Blue tooth was never designed as a way to measure proximity so calculating how close someone else might be (well their phone) depends on various factors which affect the signal. Walls, the person's body being between the phone and the other phone, the number of other blue tooth enables phones locally. It's a bit of a blunt tool so may or may not always work well but as a quick(ish) fairly unsophisticated solution it's better than nothing.


Good point, it is a crude method. Supposedly when the app was updated the proximity thing was improved. Think beforehand it was picking up people here, there and everywhere.


----------



## Siskin

Interesting read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Interesting read
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790


Except not a mention of vast swathes of people flouting the rules.


----------



## kimthecat

kimthecat said:


> Tonight on BBC 2 China and the Pandemic. Part 1 Investigation into the initial Covid 19 outbreak in Wuhan.


Did anyone watch this. It seems WHO have a lot to answer for as well as China. The Chinese scientists knew it was passed from human to human and denied it , they tried to pass it off as SARS but the scientists were brave and they and their counterparts in other countries made genome sequence public and it could no longer be hidden. If they hadn't have done that they would have kept quiet a lot longer as they did with the SARS outbreak in 2002.
Millions of workers left Wuhan to go back to their villages for the Chinese New year and no precautions were taken.

The Chinese population is 1,442,373,260 and the official death toll is 4,636 out of 89,197 cases . I find that very hard to believe.

Very sad to see the poor animals at the Live markets .


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Except not a mention of vast swathes of people flouting the rules.


Indeed.

People still chose to go to Cheltenham races, people still chose to Eat Out to Help Out (some a lot more than they would have normally cos it was cheaper!), people still chose to get together at Xmas, people are still choosing to ignore the rules and many who complained of being disadvantaged and at high risk are now refusing the vaccine.


----------



## Happy Paws2

On the news this morning the EU are talking about stopping the export of vaccines to non EU countries.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Blackadder

MilleD said:


> Except not a mention of vast swathes of people flouting the rules.


I really don't know if that's true, certainly where I am it's not.
No-one can condone Raves, house parties, weddings etc... that's just insanity but I believe the great majority are doing their best to comply with the law.
It doesn't help that some of the rules changed on an almost daily basis & some make no sense at all!
Perhaps I'm too much of an optimist in thinking that the vast, vast majority of the public are doing their "bit" in very difficult/unnatural circumstances.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> On the news this morning the EU are talking about stopping the export of vaccines to non EU countries.


At lunchtime they were moaning that in December (when we were still part of the EU) we used a factory in the Netherlands to produce some vaccines 
But 
Now we are out of EU, we're not sharing those vaccines with them 
Imho, once EVERYONE in the UK has been vaccinated, then they're welcome to what's left 
Until then,........ No!


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> At lunchtime they were moaning that in December (when we were still part of the EU) we used a factory in the Netherlands to produce some vaccines
> But
> Now we are out of EU, we're not sharing those vaccines with them
> Imho, once EVERYONE in the UK has been vaccinated, then they're welcome to what's left
> Until then,........ No!


Hmm, I don't know. Personally I'd rather a vaccine went to a vulnerable person in the EU ahead of right-at-the-end-of-the-priority-list me.


----------



## Magyarmum

Trouble at mill

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccine-europe-faces-identity-crisis-trade-war/

*Europe faces identity crisis over vaccine trade war*


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> China and the Pandemic.


This has naff-all to do with your post (sorry) but I saw the word China and remembered something I read recently . . . which is that the Chinese are no longer going to do the nasal testing, but they are in fact going to do anal testing, apparently because the virus survives longer there? Maybe it was a dream.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> I would have so much more respect if they admitted they made mistakes.


 I understood him to have said there were things ''which could have been done better'' (I didn't actually hear it) and I imagine that's the closest any of them will get to an actual apology.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Just a quick reminder that this is a support and information thread, not for political discussion.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> This has naff-all to do with your post (sorry) but I saw the word China and remembered something I read recently . . . which is that the Chinese are no longer going to do the nasal testing, but they are in fact going to do anal testing, apparently because the virus survives longer there? Maybe it was a dream.


You didn't dream it.
It's only happening in Beijing at the moment because some experts think that the virus is easier to detect in anal swabs and it's more accurate especially for asymptomatic people...however, opinion is split because others believe that the nasal swab is sufficient.
It's been happening for a year now but only in certain groups in quarantine centres...it is very unlikely to become the new way of testing due to the fact that the virus is contracted through the respiratory tract and not the digestive tract.

It's just another case of the media hearing something from one person and then running with it before doing any research


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Hmm, I don't know. Personally I'd rather a vaccine went to a vulnerable person in the EU ahead of right-at-the-end-of-the-priority-list me.


And that's ok 
Personal preferences are just that 
Personal


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> This has naff-all to do with your post (sorry) but I saw the word China and remembered something I read recently . . . which is that the Chinese are no longer going to do the nasal testing, but they are in fact going to do anal testing, apparently because the virus survives longer there? Maybe it was a dream.


 Blimey!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Don't travel unless it's essential

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55828371


----------



## MilleD

Happy Paws2 said:


> Don't travel unless it's essential
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55828371


He can't do right for doing wrong in this one. People will say he didn't give a toss about anywhere but England if he doesn't go, or moan about essential travel if he does.

Pretty sure loads of people have made journeys for far less valid reasons.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> He can't do right for doing wrong in this one. People will say he didn't give a toss about anywhere but England if he doesn't go, or moan about essential travel if he does.
> 
> Pretty sure loads of people have made journeys for far less valid reasons.


 I don't imagine he would be heartbroken to stay home either. He's had the virus himself, probably still suffering after-effects of exhaustion etc. - but, as you say, whatever he does will be criticised. I bet Mrs May thanks her lucky stars every day that it's him and not her in the job; probably laughing like a hyena.


----------



## daveos

Calvine said:


> I don't imagine he would be heartbroken to stay home either. He's had the virus himself, probably still suffering after-effects of exhaustion etc. - but, as you say, whatever he does will be criticised. I bet Mrs May thanks her lucky stars every day that it's him and not her in the job; probably laughing like a hyena.


Trouble is everybody keeps blaming Boris rather than taking blame for their own actions,People should use own common sense and follow the advice given it is clear as what to do it is just shear stupidity of the people do you think if Christmas would have been cancelled people would not have mixed. I'm sure a witch hunt would have occured he would have been called all the names under the sun.
Im by no means a fan of the government but people have free will common sense should be or should have been a priority not selfish actions.


----------



## rona

daveos said:


> Im by no means a fan of the government but people have free will common sense should be or should have been a priority not selfish actions.


While I agree with this, I don't think it is always the case. Some people have to work, and some of those cannot avoid others. Also those with children were put in an impossible position several times and even threatened if they didn't comply


----------



## daveos

Im so angry with Germany and the EU not only were they 3 months behind us with approving ordering Oxford vaccine now the Germans keep trying to rubbish claims about its efficiency first they were demanding to have our share and also threatening to block 3.5 million doses of pzifer which we have paid for already that is illegal what a spines and selfish way to act.
The EU should have let each country order arrange its own vaccines rather than try to be a single state I was pro European at time of referendum now I'm glad we have left hope other countries follow suit the people have been let down by incompetence stop blaming Britain for your problems.


----------



## Dave S

daveos said:


> The EU should have let each country order arrange its own vaccines rather than try to be a single state I was pro European at time of referendum now I'm glad we have left hope other countries follow suit the people have been let down by incompetence stop blaming Britain for your problems.


You know I actually agree with this statement, I am glad we have left, I am also glad that we did not go with the EU commission and let them order the vaccine on our behalf.

Questions that no-one will ask is how much the EU will pay for each vaccination, how much will they charge each member country and finally who gets the back-hander?


----------



## Siskin

Dave S said:


> Questions that no-one will ask is how much the EU will pay for each vaccination, how much will they charge each member country and finally who gets the back-hander?


That is an interesting question, hadn't thought of that one.


----------



## Bisbow

Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her

Everything crossed he recovers soon


----------



## HarlequinCat

Bisbow said:


> Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
> He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
> I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her
> 
> Everything crossed he recovers soon


Not nice, I hope he gets better soon and your daughter is doing ok


----------



## Lurcherlad

Really hope he rallies and can be home safe and well soon @Bisbow


----------



## Siskin

How scary for you all @Bisbow, I do hope this is only a blimp on his road to recovery and he's back home soon


----------



## SbanR

Bisbow said:


> Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
> He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
> I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her
> 
> Everything crossed he recovers soon


Hope he rallies and recovers sufficiently to be discharged home.


----------



## Magyarmum

daveos said:


> Im so angry with Germany and the EU not only were they 3 months behind us with approving ordering Oxford vaccine now the Germans keep trying to rubbish claims about its efficiency first they were demanding to have our share and also threatening to block 3.5 million doses of pzifer which we have paid for already that is illegal what a spines and selfish way to act.
> The EU should have let each country order arrange its own vaccines rather than try to be a single state I was pro European at time of referendum now I'm glad we have left hope other countries follow suit the people have been let down by incompetence stop blaming Britain for your problems.


Perhaps you'd like to read this rather long article in this morning's Politico.

In Hungary to date only around 200,000 people have been vaccinated since December 26th, despite the fact the country is all geared up to and capable of vaccinating 500,000 a week. The hold up has been because the EU have only supplied very small quantities of the vaccine each week which have been used immediately on arrival.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...il&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-e087f659cc-190460357

*How Europe fell behind on vaccines*


----------



## Cully

@Bisbow ,how worrying for you and your family. Everything crossed for a speedy return to good health. Thinking of you.


----------



## Magyarmum

@rona

Wasn't this what you were querying a few posts back, or am I mistaken?

https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/correspondence/en/137152#_ftn1

*Letter to the European Commission in joint cases 85/2021/MIG and 86/2021/MIG on the Commission's refusal to give public access to documents concerning the purchase of vaccines against COVID-19*


----------



## Boxer123

Hope all is ok @Bisbow how scary for you.


----------



## rona

Bisbow said:


> Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
> He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
> I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her
> 
> Everything crossed he recovers soon


Such a worrying time for you all and so frustrating that all you can do is be at the end of a phone.


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> @rona
> 
> Wasn't this what you were querying a few posts back, or am I mistaken?
> 
> https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/correspondence/en/137152#_ftn1
> 
> *Letter to the European Commission in joint cases 85/2021/MIG and 86/2021/MIG on the Commission's refusal to give public access to documents concerning the purchase of vaccines against COVID-19*


Mmm, still playing silly buggers I see.

Such a good example of why I wanted out. I bet, even if a members leader asked for the info, they wouldn't get it 

Be interested to see the final outcome wouldn't it?

Thanks for the info Magyarmum


----------



## lullabydream

Thoughts are with you and your family @Bisbow


----------



## SusieRainbow

@Bisbow, so worrying for you, lots of healng vibes sent to you all.

Another reminder that this thread is for information and support.


----------



## Bisbow

SusieRainbow said:


> @Bisbow, so worrying for you, lots of healng vibes sent to you all.
> 
> Another reminder that this thread is for information and support.


Thank you all for your good wishes, very appreciated I assure you

He has covid pneumonia and is on strong anti biotics and oxygen and has been moved from a side room to the main ward
That is a good thing according to my daughter
She is cuddled up to Archie for comfort, wish I could be with her


----------



## kimthecat

Bisbow said:


> Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
> He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
> I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her
> 
> Everything crossed he recovers soon


Oh dear. Im so sorry to hear this. Hope your SIL makes a swift recovery.


----------



## Calvine

Bisbow said:


> Just heard that my son in law is in hospital on oxygen
> He was so much better yesterday he was talking about going back to work but took a turn for the worst overnight and was rushed to hospital
> I feel so useless, I can't even give my daughter a hug and as she lives 40 miles from me I am not allowed to go to her
> 
> Everything crossed he recovers soon


 How worrying for you; it must really bring the danger home to you when it happens to someone you know. I wish him well.


----------



## Bisbow

He is slightly better today the hospital has said so we are all hoping he carries on that way

Thanks all for your support


----------



## Mum2Heidi

That’s good news Bisbow. Hope he continues to improve.
Thoughts are with you and your daughter.


----------



## ForestWomble

Hope he continues to improve and can be home soon @Bisbow


----------



## Gemmaa

My parents, group 4, just received their letter to book a vaccination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
It's first come, first serve, but fingers crossed it won't be a long wait. Going to be a huge weight off my shoulders


----------



## tabelmabel

Sorry to read your worrying news @Bisbow. Sending all good wishes that your son in law recovers swiftly to full health xx


----------



## JoanneF

I fell behind on this thread, I too send best wishes @Bisbow


----------



## tabelmabel

Worth a read

The Guardian: Everyday Covid mistakes we are all still making.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/everyday-covid-mistakes-we-are-all-still-making


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> Worth a read
> 
> The Guardian: Everyday Covid mistakes we are all still making.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/everyday-covid-mistakes-we-are-all-still-making


I'm amazed at how many people I see that open a gate or hold onto a stile that probably 20-50 others have touched that day and don't use hand gel afterwards


----------



## ForestWomble

tabelmabel said:


> Worth a read
> 
> The Guardian: Everyday Covid mistakes we are all still making.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/everyday-covid-mistakes-we-are-all-still-making


The bit about cigarette smoke hadn't dawned on me, if my neighbours are outside smoking I can smell it in my home if my windows are open, I tend to close my windows as I can't stand the smell but I hadn't considered the virus could be caught that way.


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes, it is incredible how far air particles spread. I was walking behind a man a couple of weeks ago smoking a very strong smelling ***. I slowed down til he was out of sight but the smoke really hung in the air. Had he had the virus, i'd have walked right through all the covid particles.


----------



## loraonya

honestly I feel like people forgot that there are other diseases as well


----------



## tabelmabel

loraonya said:


> honestly I feel like people forgot that there are other diseases as well


They havent but the faster we get on top of this pandemic, the quicker attention will be directed towards those other diseases.


----------



## Guest

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ic-isnt-over-until-its-over-globally-12203057


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> I'm amazed at how many people I see that open a gate or hold onto a stile that probably 20-50 others have touched that day and don't use hand gel afterwards


I have to confess if I am on a walk where I have to touch man made objects or frequently touched items I don't put alcohol gel on straight after. Mainly because alcohol gel is giving me bad contact dermatitis so I prefer to wash with soap and water.

Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


----------



## Jobeth

tabelmabel said:


> They havent but the faster we get on top of this pandemic, the quicker attention will be directed towards those other diseases.


That's where I struggle with it all especially at the moment. There are lots of other diseases that have a cure but some countries still don't have access to the resources to deal with it. I will never forget a doctor crying because he couldn't save the life of a 7 year old child with malaria. Her dad had carried her many miles to get to the hospital but it was too late. In contrast we all had access to testing just is case we still got it with the medication. I also had lots of vaccinations before I went and was surrounded by TB, rabies and even leprosy.


----------



## tabelmabel

rawpawsrus said:


> View attachment 461331
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ic-isnt-over-until-its-over-globally-12203057


Depressingly, my friend who seems to be in the know about things predicts 5 yrs (4 more to go) Everything she said to me so far has come true so I wouldnt be at all surprised if she is right on the 5 year thing too.


----------



## lullabydream

kittih said:


> I have to confess if I am on a walk where I have to touch man made objects or frequently touched items I don't put alcohol gel on straight after. Mainly because alcohol gel is giving me bad contact dermatitis so I prefer to wash with soap and water.
> 
> Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


Am very similiar to you. Have always known about how easy it is to pass on germs from doing various courses, that could put the fear of God in some people. It's not always practical to use hand gel everytime you touch something, that might have been touched by someone else though so I do wash my hands well. My moisture barrier is terrible on my hands because of this,, so slap on cream and it's miles better than it was last year.


----------



## Magyarmum

kittih said:


> I have to confess if I am on a walk where I have to touch man made objects or frequently touched items I don't put alcohol gel on straight after. Mainly because alcohol gel is giving me bad contact dermatitis so I prefer to wash with soap and water.
> 
> Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


Before I go out shopping I used an antimicrobial hand cream and spray my clothes with an antimicrobial spray which is said to give up to 5 hours protection. It's a Hungarian product but I believe you can now buy similar products in the UK. I also keep a100% alcohol spray in my car which I used on the car keys, steering wheel etc.

https://immunetec.eu/


----------



## Guest

tabelmabel said:


> Depressingly, my friend who seems to be in the know about things predicts 5 yrs (4 more to go) Everything she said to me so far has come true so I wouldnt be at all surprised if she is right on the 5 year thing too.


 I don't think this is all going to be over when everyone is vaccinated as there is different strains within the UK and around the world so this proves the virus is mutating. As of yet they do not know how long the vaccine will last, some scientists have said 6 to 12 months before a new vaccine is needed. People that have been vaccinated are being told to stick to the current lockdown rules after being vaccinated. There is alot of uncertainty if these vaccines will work. How long will it be before the virus mutates to another strain and a new vaccine is needed? The whole world would have to be at the same point with this virus (which means the whole world working together instead of against each other) to help defeat it. This isn't a race or competition to see who vaccinated the whole of there country first, what then as everyone else in the world needs to get vaccinated as well. Everyone in the world is in this together and we are all going to have to find a way to live with this for the rest of our lives.


----------



## Cully

kittih said:


> I have to confess if I am on a walk where I have to touch man made objects or frequently touched items I don't put alcohol gel on straight after. Mainly because alcohol gel is giving me bad contact dermatitis so I prefer to wash with soap and water.
> 
> Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


My hands suffer with over washing and sanitising too. So I put on disposable gloves before I go out. If you touch anything you can use sanitiser without removing the gloves, then just bin them when you get home.


----------



## Siskin

rawpawsrus said:


> I don't think this is all going to be over when everyone is vaccinated as there is different strains within the UK and around the world so this proves the virus is mutating. As of yet they do not know how long the vaccine will last, some scientists have said 6 to 12 months before a new vaccine is needed. People that have been vaccinated are being told to stick to the current lockdown rules after being vaccinated. There is alot of uncertainty if these vaccines will work. How long will it be before the virus mutates to another strain and a new vaccine is needed? The whole world would have to be at the same point with this virus (which means the whole world working together instead of against each other) to help defeat it. This isn't a race or competition to see who vaccinated the whole of there country first, what then as everyone else in the world needs to get vaccinated as well. Everyone in the world is in this together and we are all going to have to find a way to live with this for the rest of our lives.


I can't answer for all of the richer countries, but the U.K. is planning to vaccinate its citizens first then to give excess vaccines to poorer struggling countries.

Viruses mutate, it's what they do to keep going. 
It seems that a number of the vaccines are able to cope with the known mutations, but there will be unknown mutations as most countries are not routinely testing for mutations, U.K., Brazil and South Africa are which is why they were found. 
A mutation that kills the host is something that is self limiting and is not what a virus wants, it wants to be able to replicate and continue, nothing more. What eventually happens is that the successful mutation will be one that is one that is easily spread and doesn't kill the host, just makes them a bit ill which is why the younger you are with a better immune system survival is good. The virus is now being weakened. 
The inoculation will fundamentally provide a better immune system to everyone thus making the virus less able to make the host very ill if at all even if it is a mutation. Eventually there will be herd immunity made up of those that have been vaccinated or have had the virus and gradually the virus will be unable to replicate and mutate as there are no hosts for it to survive in meaning the virus will gradually die out. 
It's a process that will take time and it may well be that it will be necessary to vaccinate annually for some years. That in itself will be problematical because there will be people who either won't have the vaccination either because they are scared, a conspiracy theorist or just can't be bothered and this could perpetuate the virus hanging about for many years to come


----------



## tabelmabel

rawpawsrus said:


> I don't think this is all going to be over when everyone is vaccinated as there is different strains within the UK and around the world so this proves the virus is mutating


Exactly. I think 5 years is more realistic. In fact, to add extra gloom, my friend told me life as we knew it will_ never _return - as something else will be along to replace it. She is an environmentalist and already knew this virus was going to hit a good 12 or 18 months before it did. We will just need to adapt to a new way of living by the sounds of things . . .


----------



## Gemmaa

This might be useful to people with sensitive skin:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vital-Baby...00GPQDZ1O/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


----------



## Arny

kittih said:


> Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


Me too, especially as I'm picking up dog poo. That's always been enough for me to avoid touching my face.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

kittih said:


> I have to confess if I am on a walk where I have to touch man made objects or frequently touched items I don't put alcohol gel on straight after. Mainly because alcohol gel is giving me bad contact dermatitis so I prefer to wash with soap and water.
> 
> Personally I assume my hands are dirty if I am outside and keep them away from my face or food until I can wash them. Though I am not sure everyone has the same reasoning for not doing so


I have customised my walks so I don't have to touch anything. Kissing gates I negotiate the widest corner and flip the corner of the gate with my boot if need be.
If I I can't cross a style if I can do it without touching. Done wonders for my balance
I'm probably over cautious. Not been in a shop since March. Stick to my own company or outdoor space.


----------



## Blackadder

loraonya said:


> honestly I feel like people forgot that there are other diseases as well





tabelmabel said:


> They havent but the faster we get on top of this pandemic, the quicker attention will be directed towards those other diseases.


I think there is some truth in the first quote. I've been off work for 2 weeks now but can't get to see my doctor, I tried to make an appt but all I got was a call back & to be told "it's a chest infection I'll give you some antibiotics"... they didn't work! Week later same thing, call back from the Dr where I explained that the ABs hadn't done anything & I felt just the same. His response...."must be a virus then"  So now I'm looking at my 3rd week feeling like crap & no nearer to knowing what's wrong!
This has made me wonder how many are getting the same treatment (or lack of) where serious illnesses are being missed? How many treatable cancer patients are going undiagnosed & will suffer badly later? How many are having chemotherapy cancelled? Heart conditions, Diabetes, mental health...
I don't know the numbers but if it is happening then we're storing up a big problem for the near future!
It seems to me that it's no longer the National Health Service but the Covid Health Service.


----------



## Cully

I've given up even trying to contact my doctor. The surgery is a complete waste of time as they just pass you to someone who will only do a phone consult.
Face to face is so important as you can tell so much more than just voice.
The 'medics' are just standing in for the doctors who, rightly so, are on the front line now. 
One medic told me I didn't need an x-ray as you don't have any bones in your neck! The word spine comes to mind. The physio he sent me to made it much worse.
I don't have any faith in them anymore. I dread getting ill as I really wouldn't know who to turn to.


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh yes, i do agree with you there, @Blackadder. Our surgery has no gps on the premises at all. My OH reported a symptom of weight loss about 4 months ago and, so far all that has happened is that he has seen a nurse who weighed him. He had to wait 8 weeks to get the nurse appt. Heaven help us if it is anything serious behind the loss as it will be far too late before he gets anywhere near a GP.

I just meant the nhs is bowing under the weight of covid and until that is under control, nothing else can get moving at all.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I can't answer for all of the richer countries, but the U.K. is planning to vaccinate its citizens first then to give excess vaccines to poorer struggling countries.
> 
> Viruses mutate, it's what they do to keep going.
> It seems that a number of the vaccines are able to cope with the known mutations, but there will be unknown mutations as most countries are not routinely testing for mutations, U.K., Brazil and South Africa are which is why they were found.
> A mutation that kills the host is something that is self limiting and is not what a virus wants, it wants to be able to replicate and continue, nothing more. What eventually happens is that the successful mutation will be one that is one that is easily spread and doesn't kill the host, just makes them a bit ill which is why the younger you are with a better immune system survival is good. The virus is now being weakened.
> The inoculation will fundamentally provide a better immune system to everyone thus making the virus less able to make the host very ill if at all even if it is a mutation. Eventually there will be herd immunity made up of those that have been vaccinated or have had the virus and gradually the virus will be unable to replicate and mutate as there are no hosts for it to survive in meaning the virus will gradually die out.
> It's a process that will take time and it may well be that it will be necessary to vaccinate annually for some years. That in itself will be problematical because there will be people who either won't have the vaccination either because they are scared, a conspiracy theorist or just can't be bothered and this could perpetuate the virus hanging about for many years to come


Excellent post on viruses, mutations and vaccinations.


----------



## Calvine

rawpawsrus said:


> I don't think this is all going to be over when everyone is vaccinated


 Vaccination certainly is not going to be the ''quick fix'' that some people last summer were predicting and hoping it would be; partly because many people will decline to have it. I know several who are definitely not having it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Vaccination certainly is not going to be the ''quick fix'' that some people last summer were predicting and hoping it would be; partly because many people will decline to have it. I know several who are definitely not having it.


And very often they're the ones who won't wear masks


----------



## Calvine

Well, if it's any consolation, the number of cases of ''ordinary'' flu has plummeted this year (I believe by about 90%). But hasn't this always been the case? Get rid of one killer and along comes something worse and stronger and much more difficult to eradicate. I think it's Nature's way of keeping the population down.


----------



## Siskin

On a good note it is being reported that flu is 95% down this winter, likely due to distancing, lockdowns and a higher uptake of the vaccine.
Unfortunately this could present a problem in subsequent years as there won't be a recent baseline for virologists to work from when coming up with the right type of vaccine for next winter. However it is thought that the covid vaccine may provide a degree of immunity to flu as well as covid as they are both coronaviruses after all

Edit to add. Crossed posted with @Calvine

Great minds etc etc eh


----------



## Bisbow

Calvine said:


> Well, . I think it's Nature's way of keeping the population down.


That is exactly what I have been saying since it all started

Mother Nature getting to work to keep things right


----------



## Arny

Siskin said:


> However it is thought that the covid vaccine may provide a degree of immunity to flu as well as covid as they are both coronaviruses after all


The flu isn't a coronavirus, what is generally classed as the common cold is though.


----------



## Siskin

Arny said:


> The flu isn't a coronavirus, what is generally classed as the common cold is though.


Apologies, I thought it was


----------



## ForestWomble

Blackadder said:


> I think there is some truth in the first quote. I've been off work for 2 weeks now but can't get to see my doctor, I tried to make an appt but all I got was a call back & to be told "it's a chest infection I'll give you some antibiotics"... they didn't work! Week later same thing, call back from the Dr where I explained that the ABs hadn't done anything & I felt just the same. His response...."must be a virus then"  So now I'm looking at my 3rd week feeling like crap & no nearer to knowing what's wrong!
> This has made me wonder how many are getting the same treatment (or lack of) where serious illnesses are being missed? How many treatable cancer patients are going undiagnosed & will suffer badly later? How many are having chemotherapy cancelled? Heart conditions, Diabetes, mental health...
> I don't know the numbers but if it is happening then we're storing up a big problem for the near future!
> It seems to me that it's no longer the National Health Service but the Covid Health Service.





Cully said:


> I've given up even trying to contact my doctor. The surgery is a complete waste of time as they just pass you to someone who will only do a phone consult.
> Face to face is so important as you can tell so much more than just voice.
> The 'medics' are just standing in for the doctors who, rightly so, are on the front line now.
> One medic told me I didn't need an x-ray as you don't have any bones in your neck! The word spine comes to mind. The physio he sent me to made it much worse.
> I don't have any faith in them anymore. I dread getting ill as I really wouldn't know who to turn to.





tabelmabel said:


> Oh yes, i do agree with you there, @Blackadder. Our surgery has no gps on the premises at all. My OH reported a symptom of weight loss about 4 months ago and, so far all that has happened is that he has seen a nurse who weighed him. He had to wait 8 weeks to get the nurse appt. Heaven help us if it is anything serious behind the loss as it will be far too late before he gets anywhere near a GP.
> 
> I just meant the nhs is bowing under the weight of covid and until that is under control, nothing else can get moving at all.


Sorry to hear of your experiences, I hope you all get seen and feel better / know what is wrong soon.

Sadly I'm another with a similar story, I contacted my Dr back in May last year due to pain, I got a phone call which, from the sound of things, the Dr was being timed on as she spoke very quickly and I was struggling to follow, she prescribed me something and that was that. I'm still in pain.


----------



## Cully

Bisbow said:


> That is exactly what I have been saying since it all started
> 
> Mother Nature getting to work to keep things right


Yep, totally agree. Mother Nature is peed off with how were treating the planet, despite giving us numerous warning signs, so has decided it's time to step in to salvage what's left.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Yep, totally agree. Mother Nature is peed off with how were treating the planet, despite giving us numerous warning signs, so has decided it's time to step in to salvage what's left.


I said something like last year, I wouldn't blame it if it was true.


----------



## Cully

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear of your experiences, I hope you all get seen and feel better / know what is wrong soon.
> 
> Sadly I'm another with a similar story, I contacted my Dr back in May last year due to pain, I got a phone call which, from the sound of things, the Dr was being timed on as she spoke very quickly and I was struggling to follow, she prescribed me something and that was that. I'm still in pain.


Can't like, just empathise, sigh!


----------



## tabelmabel

Sorry to hear about your situation @ForestWomble. Probably worth chasing up.


----------



## Siskin

Just heard that Captain Tom has been taken into hospital with covid after having trouble breathing. Hope he manages to beat it after all he has done


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Just heard that Captain Tom has been taken into hospital with covid after having trouble breathing. Hope he manages to beat it after all he has done


Awful News


----------



## kimthecat

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear of your experiences, I hope you all get seen and feel better / know what is wrong soon.
> 
> Sadly I'm another with a similar story, I contacted my Dr back in May last year due to pain, I got a phone call which, from the sound of things, the Dr was being timed on as she spoke very quickly and I was struggling to follow, she prescribed me something and that was that. I'm still in pain.


 Sorry to hear that. perhaps you should contact her again.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Just heard that Captain Tom has been taken into hospital with covid after having trouble breathing. Hope he manages to beat it after all he has done


Oh No!


----------



## Guest

Siskin said:


> Just heard that Captain Tom has been taken into hospital with covid after having trouble breathing. Hope he manages to beat it after all he has done


Just read about this myself.
He has been receiving treatment for pneumonia before his positive covid-19 test. Hope he pulls through this?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-captain-sir-tom-moore-in-hospital-with-coronavirus-12204729


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear of your experiences, I hope you all get seen and feel better / know what is wrong soon.
> 
> Sadly I'm another with a similar story, I contacted my Dr back in May last year due to pain, I got a phone call which, from the sound of things, the Dr was being timed on as she spoke very quickly and I was struggling to follow, she prescribed me something and that was that. I'm still in pain.


Sorry to hear this, but if I were you I'd be pestering my GP.

If patients don't, they might reasonably assume all is well.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> Can't like, just empathise, sigh!





tabelmabel said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation @ForestWomble. Probably worth chasing up.





kimthecat said:


> Sorry to hear that. perhaps you should contact her again.





Lurcherlad said:


> Sorry to hear this, but if I were you I'd be pestering my GP.
> 
> If patients don't, they might reasonably assume all is well.


Thank you all. I know I ought to, guess I'm scared to and if they want to see me I have no way of getting there so don't want to waste their time


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Thank you all. I know I ought to, guess I'm scared to and if they want to see me I have no way of getting there so don't want to waste their time


You definitely aren't wasting their time.

If you need a home visit I'm sure there's a way to facilitate that.

Physios, etc. are still working so if referred they can do phone appointments or email exercise plans through etc.

Do you have a Mutual Aid group in your area? They help with lots of things:

Shopping
Collecting shopping
Posting mail
Dog walking
Friendly phone call
Emotional support
Running general errands
Anything else you might need

Ask your council for contact details - I believe they are working through councils all over the country


----------



## Boxer123

@ForestWomble my mum works in a surgery they want to hear from people you won't be wasting their time.


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> You definitely aren't wasting their time.
> 
> If you need a home visit I'm sure there's a way to facilitate that.
> 
> Physios, etc. are still working so if referred they can do phone appointments or email exercise plans through etc.
> 
> Do you have a Mutual Aid group in your area? They help with lots of things:
> 
> Shopping
> Collecting shopping
> Posting mail
> Dog walking
> Friendly phone call
> Emotional support
> Running general errands
> Anything else you might need
> 
> Ask your council for contact details - I believe they are working through councils all over the country


 Maybe they have a better plan now. The doctor wanted me to have a blood test and as I couldn't get to the nearby town to where the nurses were doing things like that I couldn't have it done. Guess it's put me off a bit.

Not that I'm aware of, I will have to see if we do have something like that. Thank you.



Boxer123 said:


> @ForestWomble my mum works in a surgery they want to hear from people you won't be wasting their time.


Thank you.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> You definitely aren't wasting their time.
> 
> If you need a home visit I'm sure there's a way to facilitate that.
> 
> Physios, etc. are still working so if referred they can do phone appointments or email exercise plans through etc.
> 
> Do you have a Mutual Aid group in your area? They help with lots of things:
> 
> Shopping
> Collecting shopping
> Posting mail
> Dog walking
> Friendly phone call
> Emotional support
> Running general errands
> Anything else you might need
> 
> Ask your council for contact details - I believe they are working through councils all over the country


I'm sure there is something similar on our local ''Nextdoor'' - people with cars helping those who are housebound to pick up shopping and the like.


----------



## Magyarmum

Interesting .....

https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/flu...AMhcKW8kCKKbIosqdMd43dugbG9ml9KoUCvdB-2oQU_UI

*Flu Is Now 'Almost Wiped Out' As Levels At Lowest In 130 Years*


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> Interesting .....
> 
> https://www.unilad.co.uk/health/flu...AMhcKW8kCKKbIosqdMd43dugbG9ml9KoUCvdB-2oQU_UI
> 
> *Flu Is Now 'Almost Wiped Out' As Levels At Lowest In 130 Years*


I was thinking normally over the winter I get a cold or sore throat this year nothing. Probably because of all the rules in place. It does go to show how infectious Covid is when you consider no one is catching flu.


----------



## mrs phas

Doing door to door testing

BBCBC News - SA variant: Urgent tests after community cases found
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55889391


----------



## Jesthar

Boxer123 said:


> I was thinking normally over the winter I get a cold or sore throat this year nothing. Probably because of all the rules in place. It does go to show how infectious Covid is when you consider no one is catching flu.


Exactly. Social distancing, masks and basic hygiene = practically no winter bugs doing the rounds. Which is just as well, as the NHS couldn't have handled a flu season on top of Covid...

Although, as is to be expected, I've seen the covid conspiracy theory brigade using the drop in flu mortality numbers (alongside other mortality drops attributable to lockdown) to try and bolster their arguments that there is no excessive mortaity and therefore Covid isn't killing people.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Exactly. Social distancing, masks and basic hygiene = practically no winter bugs doing the rounds. Which is just as well, as the NHS couldn't have handled a flu season on top of Covid...
> 
> Although, as is to be expected, I've seen the covid conspiracy theory brigade using the drop in flu mortality numbers (alongside other mortality drops attributable to lockdown) to try and bolster their arguments that there is no excessive mortaity and therefore Covid isn't killing people.


But ... but ... but .... It's the vaccines not the virus that are killing people, don't you know? I have it on good authority from FB

https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/c...PHCi2OIzaH5iD87yqrufBD3iYvkeOB9xxRiCMJfWxv37g

*CDC: 329 Recorded Deaths So Far Following Experimental COVID mRNA Injections in the U.S.*

(don't worry it's been debunked)


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> But ... but ... but .... It's the vaccines not the virus that are killing people, don't you know? I have it on good authority from FB
> 
> https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/c...PHCi2OIzaH5iD87yqrufBD3iYvkeOB9xxRiCMJfWxv37g
> 
> *CDC: 329 Recorded Deaths So Far Following Experimental COVID mRNA Injections in the U.S.*
> 
> (don't worry it's been debunked)


As opposed to the 440 + thousand who've died from covid 19 
I know, as you say, it's been debunked
But
It shouldn't be allowed to be put ' out there' unless it's an actual 100%fact
I watched a programme Friday (I think) where it was saying a lot of people of the Muslim and Jewish faith wouldn't have it because it's , wrongly, been said it has some form of pork in it
And
People of the BAME communities were refusing it because, 'like covid' it's got some form of 'eugenic bomb' in it, so that more people of those communities die from it, than white people 
What is it, that covid has, that makes common sense go straight out the window?


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> As opposed to the 440 + thousand who've died from covid 19
> I know, as you say, it's been debunked
> But
> It shouldn't be allowed to be put ' out there' unless it's an actual 100%fact
> I watched a programme Friday (I think) where it was saying a lot of people of the Muslim and Jewish faith wouldn't have it because it's , wrongly, been said it has some form of pork in it
> And
> People of the BAME communities were refusing it because, 'like covid' it's got some form of 'eugenic bomb' in it, do that more people of those communities die from it, than white people
> What is it, that covid has, that makes common sense go straight out the window?


I keep reporting the posts but it takes a long time before anyone at FB gets round to fact checking them, even though most of the time it only takes me a few minutes to find proof the whatever is false, Unfortunately there's no provision to convey that info to them.

It wasn't so long ago due to the fact that some of the vaccines were developed using aborted foetus that the Pope had to publicly approve their use as "morally acceptable".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55409693

*Covid: Vatican says coronavirus vaccines 'morally acceptable'*


----------



## Boxer123

Well the South African variant is here. Honestly I could weep just watching those on The Isle of Man who closed their boarders going about their normal lives. 21000 people arrive in the U.K. everyday. I just can’t see this ending.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Well the South African variant is here. Honestly I could weep just watching those on The Isle of Man who closed their boarders going about their normal lives. 21000 people arrive in the U.K. everyday. * I just can't see this ending.*


Unless they pull the Draw Bridge up and close all our all boarders completely we never will.


----------



## StormyThai

Boxer123 said:


> Well the South African variant is here. Honestly I could weep just watching those on The Isle of Man who closed their boarders going about their normal lives. 21000 people arrive in the U.K. everyday. I just can't see this ending.


You know what this is one this that really bugs me...
How anyone can say that this Government are doing a good job, or moaning that another party wouldn't have done any better (which is irrelevant IMO because moaning that someone else would do worse doesn't achieve anything) when people are still moving in and out of the country? And have been throughout the whole of it!

You look at New Zealand (yes we can compare as they are an island, even though the population is more spread out)...they shut their boarders, and they shut them hard...they had 4 cases in 24 hours compared to our over 18'000 for yesterday!

I'm angry...My dad had Covid in the second wave (thankfully he is out now but no where near healthy), my Aunt died of a heart attack a week ago (was tested positive but her death isn't covid related) and now my Uncle has also tested positive and my grans dementia is getting worse by the day.
I can't even go see them for support...yet some internet influencer can travel around the world in the guise of "work" 
It's just not F'ing fair


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> You know what this is one this that really bugs me...
> How anyone can say that this Government are doing a good job, or moaning that another party wouldn't have done any better (which is irrelevant IMO because moaning that someone else would do worse doesn't achieve anything) when people are still moving in and out of the country? And have been throughout the whole of it!
> 
> You look at New Zealand (yes we can compare as they are an island, even though the population is more spread out)...they shut their boarders, and they shut them hard...they had 4 cases in 24 hours compared to our over 18'000 for yesterday!
> 
> I'm angry...My dad had Covid in the second wave (thankfully he is out now but no where near healthy), my Aunt died of a heart attack a week ago (was tested positive but her death isn't covid related) and now my Uncle has also tested positive and my grans dementia is getting worse by the day.
> I can't even go see them for support...yet some internet influencer can travel around the world in the guise of "work"
> It's just not F'ing fair


I am so sorry to hear about your family. I agree it's been going on so long I am getting really lonely and fed up. They looked at strict boarder control and hotel quarantine like other countries but haven't done it. I don't understand why.


----------



## simplysardonic

StormyThai said:


> You know what this is one this that really bugs me...
> How anyone can say that this Government are doing a good job, or moaning that another party wouldn't have done any better (which is irrelevant IMO because moaning that someone else would do worse doesn't achieve anything) when people are still moving in and out of the country? And have been throughout the whole of it!
> 
> You look at New Zealand (yes we can compare as they are an island, even though the population is more spread out)...they shut their boarders, and they shut them hard...they had 4 cases in 24 hours compared to our over 18'000 for yesterday!
> 
> I'm angry...My dad had Covid in the second wave (thankfully he is out now but no where near healthy), my Aunt died of a heart attack a week ago (was tested positive but her death isn't covid related) and now my Uncle has also tested positive and my grans dementia is getting worse by the day.
> I can't even go see them for support...yet some internet influencer can travel around the world in the guise of "work"
> It's just not F'ing fair


Liked because I totally agree with you about the differences between NZ & UK's handling of the situation.

Really sorry about your family  & hope your uncle & dad are better soon x


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> moaning that someone else would do worse doesn't achieve anything


No, it really doesn't. It simply means that we are setting the bar rather low! ''Oh, Corbyn would have done worse if he had got in instead of BJ'' doesn't improve our position one iota.


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> Muslim and Jewish faith wouldn't have it


I read that many Muslims didn't want it as they believe it has some sort of alcohol in it.


----------



## StormyThai

Well just had a call from my dad to tell me that my Aunts post-mortem has come back that she died of multiple organ failure caused by Covid...


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> No, it really doesn't. It simply means that we are setting the bar rather low! ''Oh,* Corbyn* would have done worse if he had got in instead of BJ'' doesn't improve our position one iota.


:JawdropBl**dy hell, that's living in the past.


----------



## Cully

StormyThai said:


> Well just had a call from my dad to tell me that my Aunts post-mortem has come back that she died of multiple organ failure caused by Covid...


That's so sad. Your family are having a really tough time atm and I agree, it's not fair.
Mistakes have been made, but instead of dithering about, sitting on the fence, and worrying about upsetting people, we need strong action, NOW! Close all borders, patrol the streets for rule flouters. Taser persistent offenders if necessary.


----------



## Siskin

Still can’t work out why so many people seem to be travelling on planes in and out of the country, pictures of Heathrow looking absolutely packed, seems like madness to me.


----------



## Boxer123

Sorry to hear this @StormyThai.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm sorry StormyThai, your family are have a rough time at the moment.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Still can't work out why so many people seem to be travelling on planes in and out of the country, pictures of Heathrow looking absolutely packed, *seems like madness to me.*


It is ,,,,,,,,,we'll never get rid of it if BJ carry's on letting people travel.


----------



## lullabydream

@StormyThai sorry to read about your family members and Covid-19 it's absolutely awful situation to be in. Sending you my love


----------



## SbanR

Very sorry your family is having such a rough time @StormyThai


----------



## Magyarmum

I'm very sorry to hear about the sad news @stormy Thai.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I read that many Muslims didn't want it as it had some sort of alcohol in it.


No, it doesn't.

It's been passed as safe by all religious and cultural leaders apparently.


----------



## daveos

Oh no UK Kent strain has mutated again seems to be copying SA strain.
Just when things seem to be going well 1 step forward 2 steps back so depressed now really had enough,People seem to have given up on lockdown roads as busy as ever where I work shop is as busy as well people not distancing etc.
And flights keep arriving no quarantine hotels we will NEVER be free from this virus, Carrying on like this left it to late now and with the 2nd vaccine dose not given properly within 3 weeks I fear they will not be very effective.
Just so pissed with people feel like walking out of my job.


----------



## daveos

Sorry for the rant above I'm just not myself at the minute really feel like not going to work as I feel it is only a matter of time before I catch it spoke to HR they really don't seem bothered even store manager does not ware a mask even though he says he is a former para with asthma should not have to feel like this going to work.


----------



## SusieRainbow

So sorry @StormyThai.


----------



## daveos

Breaking news on Sky just announced delaying second dose of Pfizer vaccine may not protect people from the SA variant I said all along this was not the way to do it going against manufacturers instructions bunch of cowboys PHE blood on your hands if it goes wrong.
I heard that Oxford AZ jab works best when given 3 months apart but the above is very worrying. 
Again the Government and advisors still getting things wrong no longer acceptable.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Once again I would remind you that ths thread is for *information and support only* and not for *political debate.*
Offenders will receive a thread ban.


----------



## StormyThai

Cully said:


> That's so sad. Your family are having a really tough time atm and I agree, it's not fair.
> Mistakes have been made, but instead of dithering about, sitting on the fence, and worrying about upsetting people, we need strong action, NOW! Close all borders, patrol the streets for rule flouters. *Taser persistent offenders if necessary*.


-nods head enthusiastically- 



Boxer123 said:


> Sorry to hear this @StormyThai.





Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm sorry StormyThai, your family are have a rough time at the moment.





lullabydream said:


> @StormyThai sorry to read about your family members and Covid-19 it's absolutely awful situation to be in. Sending you my love





SbanR said:


> Very sorry your family is having such a rough time @StormyThai





Magyarmum said:


> I'm very sorry to hear about the sad news @stormy Thai.





SusieRainbow said:


> So sorry @StormyThai.


Thank you...I just wish I could be there to help support my dad, I just feel so helpless


----------



## ForestWomble

I am so sorry @StormyThai


----------



## Cully

So sorry you're feeling like this @daveos , it's getting to all of us, especially when there seems no end to it. You shouldn't have to put up with such a cavalier attitude from you HR. They should be doing everything possible to keep staff safe. Personally I'm sick of the gung ho way lots of companies behave with non compliance to covid safe practices. Have you a union you could approach? Or maybe phone the CAB for advice.
The worst here are the workmen who come (sheltered housing)to carry out maintenance and repairs with no ppe, and just laugh if challenged, saying they have asthma. One even shrugged and said, "if I get it, I get it". Selfish F.........!
At the beginning of this I decided that if I couldn't stop the idiots, the best thing was to concentrate on keeping myself safe, so that's what I've been doing. Since the 1st lockdown I've only been out 4 times, apart from my short local walks to get some fresh air and keep my joints moving. Having very little contact with anyone, especially family who live far away has been very hard for so many people. It's not in our nature to be solitary.
I can't offer any help but hopefully someone will be able to offer useful suggestions. I just didn't want you to think you're on your own in feeling the way you do.
Maybe you should go into work wearing all the appropriate ppe and hope it might shame them into adopting a covid safe attitude!!


----------



## ForestWomble

@daveos Do you have a union or someone you can talk to about this? You shouldn't have to feel like this and I'm sorry its the way it is. Maybe you could get a sick note from the GP?


----------



## rona

daveos said:


> Sorry for the rant above I'm just not myself at the minute really feel like not going to work as I feel it is only a matter of time before I catch it spoke to HR they really don't seem bothered even store manager does not ware a mask even though he says he is a former para with asthma should not have to feel like this going to work.


https://www.cieh.org/ehn/health-and-safety/2020/april/hse-opens-up-anonymous-hotline-for-workers/

Please report it


----------



## Jesthar

daveos said:


> *Breaking news on Sky just announced delaying second dose of Pfizer vaccine may not protect people from the SA variant* I said all along this was not the way to do it going against manufacturers instructions bunch of cowboys PHE blood on your hands if it goes wrong.
> I heard that Oxford AZ jab works best when given 3 months apart but the above is very worrying.
> Again the Government and advisors still getting things wrong no longer acceptable.


Deep breath and calm yourself a bit, matey. This is far from unexpected. Exactly the opposite, in fact.

The virus is doing what viruses do to survive - mutating. Most of those mutations will fail and die. A very tiny number will succeed and thrive. And a small number of those will be different enough to the original strain that the current vaccines won't protect against them and a new variant will be required. The gap between dose one and dose two makes absolutely no difference to that (doctors in my family have confirmed this).

This is normal. It's one of the reasons why a new flu jab is produced every year, as the flu also mutates into new forms. One vaccine being enough was always very much an unrealistic proposition - but it's not what people want to hear, so it tends to get ignored.

So whilst I agree that leadership in the UK has been far from ideal, people also need to understand that having a vaccine is not a magic bullet that will quickly get society back to what we once considered to be 'normal.' Nor is the medical research and advice going to be perfect - this is real life, not Star Trek. Yes, we know a lot more than we did a year ago, but there is still so much that is still unknown.

So, even with the vaccine rollout this is going to be a long haul. In the meantime, the best thing we can all do is stick to the social distancing and hygiene rules, wear our masks, get our vaccinations when we have the chance, and encourage others to do the same.


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Breaking news on Sky just announced delaying second dose of Pfizer vaccine may not protect people from the SA variant I said all along this was not the way to do it going against manufacturers instructions bunch of cowboys PHE blood on your hands if it goes wrong.
> I heard that Oxford AZ jab works best when given 3 months apart but the above is very worrying.
> Again the Government and advisors still getting things wrong no longer acceptable.


I honestly would advise not watching the news.

All the way throughout this, the most horrendous news still hasn't been bad enough for them.

There's always worse and more deadly on the way - "cue serious voice"... Journalists have got a lot to answer for through all of this.


----------



## daveos

rona said:


> https://www.cieh.org/ehn/health-and-safety/2020/april/hse-opens-up-anonymous-hotline-for-workers/
> 
> Please report it


Thanks Rona looks very good also can keep identity free hopefully no comebacks will see how they work against one of the big 4 supermarkets.


----------



## daveos

ForestWomble said:


> @daveos Do you have a union or someone you can talk to about this? You shouldn't have to feel like this and I'm sorry its the way it is. Maybe you could get a sick note from the GP?


Yes I spoke to union rep although I'm no longer a member they agreed with my concerns but did not take it any further but the union is USDAW they are pretty useless at the best of times always toothless and seem to be run by Morrisons and Tesco as they always win.


----------



## daveos

Cully said:


> So sorry you're feeling like this @daveos , it's getting to all of us, especially when there seems no end to it. You shouldn't have to put up with such a cavalier attitude from you HR. They should be doing everything possible to keep staff safe. Personally I'm sick of the gung ho way lots of companies behave with non compliance to covid safe practices. Have you a union you could approach? Or maybe phone the CAB for advice.
> The worst here are the workmen who come (sheltered housing)to carry out maintenance and repairs with no ppe, and just laugh if challenged, saying they have asthma. One even shrugged and said, "if I get it, I get it". Selfish F.........!
> At the beginning of this I decided that if I couldn't stop the idiots, the best thing was to concentrate on keeping myself safe, so that's what I've been doing. Since the 1st lockdown I've only been out 4 times, apart from my short local walks to get some fresh air and keep my joints moving. Having very little contact with anyone, especially family who live far away has been very hard for so many people. It's not in our nature to be solitary.
> I can't offer any help but hopefully someone will be able to offer useful suggestions. I just didn't want you to think you're on your own in feeling the way you do.
> Maybe you should go into work wearing all the appropriate ppe and hope it might shame them into adopting a covid safe attitude!!


Hi I have been following the same advice as yourself I have been wearing a mask long before it became enforced always wash my hands etc just wish customers could keep a distance thats all I ask.


----------



## Bisbow

I see more variants have been found

Seems like Mother Nature is determined to bring the population down to a manageable level

She is one step ahead of the experts every time


----------



## daveos

MilleD said:


> I honestly would advise not watching the news.
> 
> All the way throughout this, the most horrendous news still hasn't been bad enough for them.
> 
> There's always worse and more deadly on the way - "cue serious voice"... Journalists have got a lot to answer for through all of this.


A good point the only news that sells is bad right?
Wish they would report on the positives for a change.


----------



## lullabydream

StormyThai said:


> -nods head enthusiastically-
> 
> Thank you...I just wish I could be there to help support my dad, I just feel so helpless


My friend went through similiar last year. I was the one on the end of the phone at random times in the night when she was worried about one family member, than another. I know it's not the same, but I hope you are reaching out to your friends to chat to, so they can give you support too. Am sure Dad just wants you currently to stay safe, and like most parents will be worrying more about you in a way, than you will understand. You will get there to be with him and make precious memories


----------



## MilleD

Weird experience taking 3 cats to the vets today for their jabs.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Weird experience taking 3 cats to the vets today for their jabs.


How come?


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> How come?


Just taking them out of the car and putting them on the pavement for them to take in.

People having consultations in the middle of the street effectively. Most strange.


----------



## MilleD

RIP Captain Tom.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

MilleD said:


> RIP Captain Tom.


Oh no!!!


----------



## SusieRainbow

So sad, what a legend.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> No, it doesn't.
> 
> It's been passed assuage by all religious and cultural leaders apparently.


 I'm sure it doesn't; but people who simply don't want it are all finding a reason for not having it, even the ones who would likely get worse symptoms if they had the virus.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> So, even with the vaccine rollout this is going to be a long haul


 It was never going to be the quick fix that some people were thinking/hoping for last summer. As far as one can see, its main benefit will be to take the pressure off the NHS which is at breaking point (obviously)..


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Just taking them out of the car and putting them on the pavement for them to take in.
> 
> People having consultations in the middle of the street effectively. Most strange.


Yes it must be. I need to take Misty for her jabs sometime during the next few weeks.
I'm not looking forward to it as I no longer have a lift!!


----------



## simplysardonic

MilleD said:


> RIP Captain Tom.


I was very saddened to read that just now  RIP Captain Tom


----------



## Calvine

daveos said:


> I heard that Oxford AZ jab works best when given 3 months apart


I am sorry that you are having such a bad time; I think all the mixed messages is resulting in people's confidence in any vaccine at all being eroded. Today I read that it is now being suggested that the Oxford vaccine is useless on people over 65 as there were very few people in that age group tested? Who knows. But yes, your job must be awful - I saw today the family-of-five-from-Hell (kids old enough for remote/home schooling) just blocking every aisle; to get past you had to pass closely, then all whooping and hollering round one self-service till. How the assistants manage to smile and stay civil is a miracle. There was a uniformed ''security man'' at the door who seemed only to be concentrating on his mobile phone.


----------



## Calvine

daveos said:


> Wish they would report on the positives for a change.


 Quite often they tell you two conflicting things on the same page which is guaranteed to confuse everyone.


----------



## kimthecat

StormyThai said:


> Well just had a call from my dad to tell me that my Aunts post-mortem has come back that she died of multiple organ failure caused by Covid...


Im so sorry to hear this.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Yes it must be. I need to take Misty for her jabs sometime during the next few weeks.
> I'm not looking forward to it as I no longer have a lift!!


They let me push the two boys right up against the 3 month limit for boosters. And Jasper was due in Jan so they said it would be easier to do her at the same time.

Hope you can sort something.


----------



## rona

Went into a shop for only the second time since March. A pharmacy to pick up a prescription.
Even there, there was a person who didn't think he had to give me space


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> They let me push the two boys right up against the 3 month limit for boosters. And Jasper was due in Jan so they said it would be easier to do her at the same time.
> 
> Hope you can sort something.


Thanks. I've got a bit of time to play with as her booster last year was at the end of Feb, so I may be able to push it until towards April. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> Went into a shop for only the second time since March. A pharmacy to pick up a prescription.
> Even there, there was a person who didn't think he had to give me space


It's D heads like this that stop me venturing out!! Don't they ever consider how their actions are affecting others?


----------



## Jaf

My local village did random Covid testing today. Apparently 400 invites were sent, out of 2,000 registered people. 

I didn’t get an invite, I would still liked to have gone for a test. I read that the next town over had a very poor takeup of the test.


----------



## Cully

I had a text today from NHS no reply. Asking me to book a regular covid symptom free test to protect my local area.
http://mygp.me/Kent Testing
I'm not sure if it's genuine so didn't respond.
Has anyone had anything similar?


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I had a text today from NHS no reply. Asking me to book a regular covid symptom free test to protect my local area.
> http://mygp.me/Kent Testing
> I'm not sure if it's genuine so didn't respond.
> Has anyone had anything similar?


Hmm. There is a valid web address for myGP, but I've just looked at their facebook page and it's very unprofessional in content.

If you feel you need a test (ie if you are going somewhere) then there will be places to contact locally. I don't know if I would bother with that link to be honest.

It could be genuine, but not sure.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> I had a text today from NHS no reply. Asking me to book a regular covid symptom free test to protect my local area.
> http://mygp.me/Kent Testing
> I'm not sure if it's genuine so didn't respond.
> Has anyone had anything similar?


 Is your post code included in those that have the SA strain? I am not in one of those areas but just been hearing on the local news that one of the postcodes not too far from me have been given invites for covid testing regardless of symptoms, there are so many scams about though


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Brilliant news that the OXford AZ vaccine appears to prevent those who have had it passing covid on to those that have not yet been vaccinated.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Hmm. There is a valid web address for myGP, but I've just looked at their facebook page and it's very unprofessional in content.
> 
> If you feel you need a test (ie if you are going somewhere) then there will be places to contact locally. I don't know if I would bother with that link to be honest.
> 
> It could be genuine, but not sure.


I think it sounds a bit iffy.


----------



## Cully

3dogs2cats said:


> Is your post code included in those that have the SA strain? I am not in one of those areas but just been hearing on the local news that one of the postcodes not too far from me have been given invites for covid testing regardless of symptoms, there are so many scams about though


Maidstone is one of those getting doorstep tests, and they aren't too far from me. But I am very cautious about unsolicited texts or emails with links.
I am quite happy to be tested if it's genuine, in fact, I've just done one of those pin prick tests for research by MORI. But I'm wary of scams.
I have a vision of agreeing to a test, then getting asked to pay for it if I want the result.SCAM!!


----------



## rona

3dogs2cats said:


> Brilliant news that the OXford AZ vaccine appears to prevent those who have had it passing covid on to those that have not yet been vaccinated.


Brilliant news. Is this in the public domain somewhere?

Found it
https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-v...remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734


----------



## Jesthar

3dogs2cats said:


> Brilliant news that the OXford AZ vaccine appears to prevent those who have had it passing covid on to those that have not yet been vaccinated.


Not trying to be negative, but the way I'm reading it the reports say it appears to reduces transmission TO those who have been vaccinated by around two thirds (no mention I can see of the unvaccinated), and the research is very new and not peer reviewed yet.

There is, of course the side effect of fewer vaccinated people getting it meaning there are fewer to pass it on, but I don't think there's enough data given to conclude vaccinated people are less infections if they DO get covid, only that they are less likely to get it.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Cully said:


> I had a text today from NHS no reply. Asking me to book a regular covid symptom free test to protect my local area.
> http://mygp.me/Kent Testing
> I'm not sure if it's genuine so didn't respond.
> Has anyone had anything similar?


@Cully I think you are TN... I'm not sure about the website but asymptomatic testing has been in place since the start of the year.

I keep getting text and emails to go, they are hoping people will go fortnightly.

As I get tested twice a week in work I've not been to the testing site but have friends who go regularly.

Here is the KCC link

https://www.kent.gov.uk/social-care...nd-medway/test-and-trace/symptom-free-testing

Just checked and there are now more sites.


----------



## Cully

MissKittyKat said:


> @Cully I think you are TN... I'm not sure about the website but asymptomatic testing has been in place since the start of the year.
> 
> I keep getting text and emails to go, they are hoping people will go fortnightly.
> 
> As I get tested twice a week in work I've not been to the testing site but have friends who go regularly.
> 
> Here is the KCC link
> 
> https://www.kent.gov.uk/social-care...nd-medway/test-and-trace/symptom-free-testing
> 
> Just checked and there are now more sites.


Do you mean my postcode is TN ? It's actually CT, I'm in Folkestone.
I'll check out that link tomorrow thanks.
My problem with regular testing is getting there. So if it's more than I can manage on my scooter I won't be able to do it. I'd be perfectly willing to do a postal test though.


----------



## cat001

Just heard news an old work colleague I worked with for over a decade was just put into a medically induced coma to try and help him recover from Covid as his blood oxygen levels keep dipping dangerously low. He's been in hospital for about a week now, I can't believe what serious condition he's in. He's a year younger than me, only early 30's. Another person I know from school (same age as me again) recently recovered from a heart attack after the Coronavirus caused inflammation to the sack surrounding his heart, thankfully he recovered. Neither had previous health conditions, It's pretty scary how seriously it can effect even fairly young people!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sad news for you 

Hope they pull through.


----------



## Cully

@MissKittyKat , I've just checked that link you sent (thanks). I won't be able to take a test as one of the conditions to be eligible is that you mustn't be self isolating, which I am.
I suppose it makes sense. If you're not going out, have virtually nil social contact, you're extremely unlikely to be exposed.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> @MissKittyKat , I've just checked that link you sent (thanks). I won't be able to take a test as one of the conditions to be eligible is that you mustn't be self isolating, which I am.
> I suppose it makes sense. If you're not going out, have virtually nil social contact, you're extremely unlikely to be exposed.


Do they mean self isolating or shielding?

They may mean that if you are self isolating because you either have symptoms or have been in contact with someone who has tested positive?

In which case they wouldn't want you to take a test as these tests are to check how many people could have it but be asymptomatic.

Of course if you are shielding, you might want to not go anyway.


----------



## Bisbow

Very pleased yo say my SIL has improved well but they have discovered he is diabetic but did not know it.
When they have sorted that out he can go home
Such a relief



yy


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Do they mean self isolating or shielding?
> 
> They may mean that if you are self isolating because you either have symptoms or have been in contact with someone who has tested positive?
> 
> In which case they wouldn't want you to take a test as these tests are to check how many people could have it but be asymptomatic.
> 
> Of course if you are shielding, you might want to not go anyway.


It does actually say self isolating. I took that to mean there is very little chance of me getting covid due to staying at home and avoiding contact, so wasting a test on me would be pointless. If I was out shopping, using public transport etc then a test would be worthwhile.


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> Very pleased yo say my SIL has improved well but they have discovered he is diabetic but did not know it.
> When they have sorted that out he can go home
> Such a relief
> 
> yy


Good news @Bisbow, hopeful the diabetes can be easily controlled


----------



## Jaf

My local village sent out 320 random invites for Covid tests. Out of 2,000 residents. 190 tests were done...0 positive results! Yay.


----------



## mrs phas

Only 11 months too late

BBC News - Covid: UK hotel quarantine to start on 15 February
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55935875


----------



## Bisbow

SIL is home with enough medication to start his own chemist shop

My daughter has to teach him how to inject his insulin and he has to go back to get a lung function test in a ew weeks and to check his blood sugar levels

He is a bit emotional and tires easily but he is on the up thank goodness


----------



## Siskin

A neighbour in his 80’s has been in hospital with covid. He has had health issues and had carers coming in twice a day prior to him getting covid, presumably one of the carers has given him him the disease despite being tested daily. He came home yesterday and is now to have carers coming in 4 times a day!


----------



## Bisbow

Hope he will be OK now Siskin

My daughter has had an anti body test and has anti bodies so she has had covid and did not know it so must have passed it on

The doctors asked my SIL if he stopped breathing did he want them to resuscitate him
That scared him and made him realise just how ill he was
No wonder he is emotional


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> A neighbour in his 80's has been in hospital with covid. He has had health issues and had carers coming in twice a day prior to him getting covid, presumably one of the carers has given him him the disease despite being tested daily. He came home yesterday and is now to have carers coming in 4 times a day!


Can he have the vaccine yet?


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Can he have the vaccine yet?


He had already had it, but not long enough for any immunity. His wife has also had the vaccine and has not had covid it seems


----------



## Siskin

Bisbow said:


> The doctors asked my SIL if he stopped breathing did he want them to resuscitate him
> That scared him and made him realise just how ill he was
> No wonder he is emotional


I was asked this last year not long after I was diagnosed with cancer. My GP phoned to check I understood about the need to shield and then went onto ask about resuscitation if I caught covid. It's quite a shock to be asked this whatever age you are even though I didn't feel old enough to be asked


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> I was asked this last year not long after I was diagnosed with cancer. My GP phoned to check I understood about the need to shield and then went onto ask about resuscitation if I caught covid. It's quite a shock to be asked this whatever age you are even though I didn't feel old enough to be asked


I was actually asked this when I booked hospital transport one time. I was only going to see my eye consultant and was totally shocked to be asked. Very tactless and really upset me.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> I was actually asked this when I booked hospital transport one time. I was only going to see my eye consultant and was totally shocked to be asked. Very tactless and really upset me.


The GP said he found it a difficult question to ask but that he had to ask it. Presumably something to do with age and infirmity of the patient and box ticking


----------



## rona

Bisbow said:


> Hope he will be OK now Siskin
> 
> My daughter has had an anti body test and has anti bodies so she has had covid and did not know it so must have passed it on
> 
> The doctors asked my SIL if he stopped breathing did he want them to resuscitate him
> That scared him and made him realise just how ill he was
> No wonder he is emotional


He must have seen some pretty harrowing things too


----------



## mrs phas

Matt was asked the same when they were planning the op, before christmas
What with his
ongoing cancer situation 
Asthma
Being vastly overweight, some of it medication, but most overeating 
His MH conditions, which apparently can be exacerbated under ventelation, (don't ask me, I was too busy crying my eyes out) 

Thankfully, the tumours reduced to a level of "keep under review, rescan every three months" (next scan next week), as, as his appointee, it would be my final decision 

It's shocking, and very scary, to have that discussion with a 28 yr old whose supposed to have his best years ahead of him


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Matt was asked the same when they were planning the op, before christmas
> What with his
> ongoing cancer situation
> Asthma
> Being vastly overweight, some of it medication, but most overeating
> His MH conditions, which apparently can be exacerbated under ventelation, (don't ask me, I was too busy crying my eyes out)
> 
> Thankfully, the tumours reduced to a level of "keep under review, rescan every three months" (next scan next week), as, as his appointee, it would be my final decision
> 
> It's shocking, and very scary, to have that discussion with a 28 yr old whose supposed to have his best years ahead of him


It's not good is it. Hopefully he will keep going, I was reading something today about some good results from a new cancer treatment


----------



## Dave S

You really could not make this up but reading some news today these two stories come to mind.

Police in Essex stopped a group of car enthusiasts meeting and fined quite a few for breaking Covid lock down restrictions, all they wanted to do was to look at each others cars.
Unfortunately they chose to meet up in a car park opposite the Police station.

AND

Police in Lancashire raided an illegal drinking party complete with a full bar set up, snooker table, large TV etc and fined 10 people for the gathering, many of whom were drunk. 
However what surprised the police was the presence of 2 sheep!

Got to be British.


----------



## Guest

Wrong thread.


----------



## davidc

Cully said:


> It's D heads like this that stop me venturing out!! Don't they ever consider how their actions are affecting others?


Round where I live, most people won't give space and push past. Many are wearing the masks wrong (seems like most are), under the nose. You can't tell me most adults don't know how to wear a mask properly!! Plus I've lost count of the amount of masks discarded on the floor.
I've got friends breaking lockdown rules left right and centre. One friend who hasn't stuck to a single rule from the very beginning despite her mother being vunerable bought a mug from Home Bargains and proudly told me she'd written "Protect the NHS, stay home." She must have forgot I usually say what I think as I did point out the irony.
There's a carer I know posting his conspiracy theories on Facebook and telling people to carry on as normal. 
I've got a friend who is 72 and self isolating so I need to be Covid free so I can get his shopping. But there's far too many ignoring the rules.


----------



## Lurcherlad

See on Facebook


----------



## Pawscrossed

About bloody time. That's not meant in a Brexs**t way _at all_, but this really should have been in place months ago to keep everyone a lot safer. Though how they police the home quarantine who knows? I can't understand why anyone should be leaving the country.


----------



## Blackadder

£1750 for ten days!!!!  Better be the Hilton & not some pokey Travelodge


----------



## Pawscrossed

Blackadder said:


> £1750 for ten days!!!!  Better be the Hilton & not some pokey Travelodge


I've got a spare room, can do full board for that!


----------



## JoanneF

Blackadder said:


> £1750 for ten days!!!!  Better be the Hilton & not some pokey Travelodge


I hadn't heard the cost but I'd guess it is set high as a deterrent.


----------



## Magyarmum

JoanneF said:


> I hadn't heard the cost but I'd guess it is set high as a deterrent.


I think I read somewhere it includes 3 meals a day. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Cully

It's still too late though. All those that have travelled and will travel up until 15th could well have brought the SA variant with them.
Borders should have been closed weeks ago.


----------



## Magyarmum

JoanneF said:


> I hadn't heard the cost but I'd guess it is set high as a deterrent.


Here you go. I was right about it including meals.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/hotel-quarantine-number-how-they-operate-new-travel-rules-865271

*How many hotels has the Government signed up to its quarantine scheme, and how will they operate?*


----------



## Pawscrossed

Cully said:


> It's still too late though. All those that have travelled and will travel up until 15th could well have brought the SA variant with them.
> Borders should have been closed weeks ago.


Last March like other islands did.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Magyarmum said:


> Here you go. I was right about it including meals.
> 
> https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/hotel-quarantine-number-how-they-operate-new-travel-rules-865271
> 
> *How many hotels has the Government signed up to its quarantine scheme, and how will they operate?*


I could do tea, toast, sandwich and a stew and a dose of humble pie for a lot cheaper. Sadly I make no donations to the Boris fund and take no back handers for cornflakes.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Honestly!!! I


----------



## Guest

I noticed earlier on the news that these quarantine hotels are for people arriving in the UK from the 33 countries that are on the red list (not every country in the world, some countries doing this quarantine hotels scheme are making sure it applies to everyone arriving in there countries not selected countries). There should be no one arriving in the UK unless it is essential travel as the air corridors are closed or have the Government opened them again? No one should be travelling at the moment as England is in a national lockdown. I notice the cost for these hotels is £1,750 for 10 days, the cost covers travel to the hotels, testing twice whilst there and the hotel room there was no mention of food on the news. If people are travelling they should be fined, if everyone else in the UK has to abide to the national lockdown rules surely they should not be travelling into the UK at all. What about those arriving by boat?


----------



## Arny

rawpawsrus said:


> There should be no one arriving in the UK unless it is essential travel as the air corridors are closed or have the Government opened them again.


The air corridors were created for no need to quarantine so no they haven't been reopened.


----------



## ForestWomble

rawpawsrus said:


> I noticed earlier on the news that these quarantine hotels are for people arriving in the UK from the 33 countries that are on the red list (not every country in the world, some countries doing this quarantine hotels scheme are making sure it applies to everyone arriving in there countries not selected countries). There should be no one arriving in the UK unless it is essential travel as the air corridors are closed or have the Government opened them again? No one should be travelling at the moment as England is in a national lockdown. I notice the cost for these hotels is £1,750 for 10 days, the cost covers travel to the hotels, testing twice whilst there and the hotel room there was no mention of food on the news. If people are travelling they should be fined, if everyone else in the UK has to abide to the national lockdown rules surely they should not be travelling into the UK at all. *What about those arriving by boat?*


Not sure if it's still the same, but the last I was aware re boats was you have to stay on your boat, not allowed on shore for a certain number of days (guessing 14 days). Think you have to have a test before coming ashore.


----------



## Guest

The travel corridors are suspended according to the Government's website:- https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors#:~:text=Print this page-,Travel corridors suspended,test to travel to England. It's confusing as people can still come to the UK as long as they self isolate for 10 days upon arrival. Plus they have to have a test 72 hours before they come to the UK. What's the point of suspending the travel corridors then? Just trying to get my head around it as to me it doesn't make sense if the travel corridors are suspended.


----------



## Arny

rawpawsrus said:


> The travel corridors are suspended according to the Government's website:- https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors#:~:text=Print this page-,Travel corridors suspended,test to travel to England. It's confusing as people can still come to the UK as long as they self isolate for 10 days upon arrival. Plus they have to have a test 72 hours before they come to the UK. What's the point of suspending the travel corridors then? Just trying to get my head around it as to me it doesn't make sense if the travel corridors are suspended.


I guess the main aim of creating the corridors was to encourage people to go on holiday to low risk areas but now the risk of bringing back new mutations is greater.


----------



## margy

Watching the news this morning they were discussing symptoms of covid. One being parosmia. In 2014 I had a bad sinus infection which resulted in me getting parosmia. I still remember the moment I realised something was wrong when I went for a coffee and it tasted odd, I thought the milk was off. I left it and from then on smells and tastes were different. I went to the GP and she didn't take me seriously. She fobbed me of with a nasal spray, which did nothing. I learnt more by googling it. I was hopeful when I read it usually gets better itself but got quite down about not being able to enjoy my food. My favourite perfume smelt revolting and I remember leaving a shop because a man near me had aftershave on that made me nauseous. My sense of taste and smell has gradually returned but it's taken 7 years, and some things still aren't right. I can't eat boiled eggs because they taste horrible and it's hard to describe because it's like nothing I've tasted before. I wish I'd gotten more sympathy from my GP. But I was left to just get on with it.


----------



## Magyarmum

margy said:


> Watching the news this morning they were discussing symptoms of covid. One being parosmia. In 2014 I had a bad sinus infection which resulted in me getting parosmia. I still remember the moment I realised something was wrong when I went for a coffee and it tasted odd, I thought the milk was off. I left it and from then on smells and tastes were different. I went to the GP and she didn't take me seriously. She fobbed me of with a nasal spray, which did nothing. I learnt more by googling it. I was hopeful when I read it usually gets better itself but got quite down about not being able to enjoy my food. My favourite perfume smelt revolting and I remember leaving a shop because a man near me had aftershave on that made me nauseous. My sense of taste and smell has gradually returned but it's taken 7 years, and some things still aren't right. I can't eat boiled eggs because they taste horrible and it's hard to describe because it's like nothing I've tasted before. I wish I'd gotten more sympathy from my GP. But I was left to just get on with it.


I suffered really badly from parosmia throughout my first pregnancy. I had to give away my favourite perfume, I couldn't stand the smell of meat cooking and a lot of food that i formerly enjoyed tasted revolting. I remember they'd opened a new Sainsbury's in Reading but I only had to step inside it and I started to feel faint from the smell. The same happened in Woolworths! An awful nine months!

It's happened once since then after an op when for a good six week afterwards everything I ate of drank tasted strongly of garlic


----------



## margy

Magyarmum said:


> I suffered really badly from parosmia throughout my first pregnancy. I had to give away my favourite perfume, I couldn't stand the smell of meat cooking and a lot of food that i formerly enjoyed tasted revolting. I remember they'd opened a new Sainsbury's in Reading but I only had to step inside it and I started to feel faint from the smell. The same happened in Woolworths! An awful nine months!
> 
> It's happened once since then after an op when for a good six week afterwards everything I ate of drank tasted strongly of garlic


For years I couldn't eat my favourite roast beef dinner as meat tasted like mouldy bread. Like you I couldn't stay in certain shops because they smelled awful. It's certainly made me appreciate the smell of a rose and all the things we take for granted.


----------



## MilleD

cheekyscrip said:


> Honestly!!! I
> View attachment 462156


Is that even real?


----------



## cat001

A bit of a development in regards to my ex work colleague whose in hospital with coronavirus. He's still in an induced coma a week on, he's had a feeding tube fitted and had a full blood transfusion. Early signs looked promising but has since suffered multiple organ failure. He's still with us and we're all hoping he'll pull through. It really hits home how serious this disease really is.


----------



## Siskin

My MIL lost her sense of taste and smell when she had flu one year and it never returned properly. It happened when she was a lot older which could have been why she didn’t get it back.

When I was pregnant I couldn’t bear the smell of coffee or meat cooking


----------



## Arny

margy said:


> Watching the news this morning they were discussing symptoms of covid. One being parosmia. In 2014 I had a bad sinus infection which resulted in me getting parosmia. I still remember the moment I realised something was wrong when I went for a coffee and it tasted odd, I thought the milk was off. I left it and from then on smells and tastes were different. I went to the GP and she didn't take me seriously. She fobbed me of with a nasal spray, which did nothing. I learnt more by googling it. I was hopeful when I read it usually gets better itself but got quite down about not being able to enjoy my food. My favourite perfume smelt revolting and I remember leaving a shop because a man near me had aftershave on that made me nauseous. My sense of taste and smell has gradually returned but it's taken 7 years, and some things still aren't right. I can't eat boiled eggs because they taste horrible and it's hard to describe because it's like nothing I've tasted before. I wish I'd gotten more sympathy from my GP. But I was left to just get on with it.


My family member's hasn't returned properly nearly a year on.
They can smell bad smells really well though, must be the worst super power.


----------



## Cully

cat001 said:


> A bit of a development in regards to my ex work colleague whose in hospital with coronavirus. He's still in an induced coma a week on, he's had a feeding tube fitted and had a full blood transfusion. Early signs looked promising but has since suffered multiple organ failure. He's still with us and we're all hoping he'll pull through. It really hits home how serious this disease really is.


I hope he continues to improve. It makes my blood boil when I hear about the non believers. They should be forced to spend a week on a covid ICU.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I think I read somewhere it includes 3 meals a day.


 I guess it would, since they can't go out?


----------



## cheekyscrip

MilleD said:


> Is that even real?


Yes, this photo I took myself...


----------



## rona




----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


>


I hope that ad works. Elton John really isn't a favourite of mine but I honestly warmed to him on that


----------



## kimthecat

Ok so I booked a holiday with Hoseasons a few days ago . booked it for May as that was all that was left . Most places booked up in South East.
Today it said on the news , dont book holidays either abroad or at home .  Hoseasons will refund if holidays have to be cancelled.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


>


That's really good

*laughing*


----------



## Pawscrossed

Deleted


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> Yes, this photo I took myself...


 Actually, many of the shops here put ''SALE'' notices in their windows, then closed the very next day for the second lockdown. One of them still has a Christmas tree in the window which has gone brown and bare with age alongside a sale sign. (But they don't say ''Covid Sale; that's rather outlandish, isn't it!)


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Actually, many of the shops here put ''SALE'' notices in their windows, then closed the very next day for the second lockdown. One of them still has a Christmas tree in the window which has gone brown and bare with age alongside a sale sign. (But they don't say ''Covid Sale; that's rather outlandish, isn't it!)


I certainly can't find reference to any Matalan doing that here.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> I certainly can't find reference to any Matalan doing that here.


 We don't have a Matalan, but several of the shops in the High St have ''SALE'' in the windows of their empty shop. I don't think the naked brown Christmas tree still lights up though. Probably needs new bulbs. They do look very dingy too; I guess the window cleaners give them a miss if there's no-one working to pay them!



kimthecat said:


> Today it said on the news , dont book holidays either abroad or at home


The Gospel according to the Daily Mail reckons that Hancock has booked to go to Cornwall (not sure when).


----------



## kimthecat

[QUOTE="Calvine, post: 1065734718, member: 1331813"
The Gospel according to the Daily Mail reckons that Hancock has booked to go to Cornwall (not sure when).[/QUOTE]

 Here's hoping we can have holidays this year.


----------



## cat001

Cully said:


> I hope he continues to improve. It makes my blood boil when I hear about the non believers. They should be forced to spend a week on a covid ICU.


Absolutely! They really make me mad.

The good news is he's stabilised now and it does look like he's now improving so we're hoping he'll be brought out of the coma soon.


----------



## Cully

Good news about the arthritis drug tocilizumab in combination with a common steroid being used to reduce severity of covid. Results are encouraging so far thank goodness.


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Good news about the arthritis drug tocilizumab in combination with a common steroid being used to reduce severity of covid. Results are encouraging so far thank goodness.


Interesting. Its hugely expensive so most people with RA wont get that .


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> Good news about the arthritis drug tocilizumab in combination with a common steroid being used to reduce severity of covid. Results are encouraging so far thank goodness.


I was also reading about Dexamethasone which apparently is not only very effective but inexpensive.

https://www.politico.eu/article/che...mits-of-eu-rules-patchwork-ema-dexamethasone/

*Cheap coronavirus drug pushes limits of EU rules patchwork*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Idiots 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56039285


----------



## mrs phas

Well! Someone didn't learn from August 2020

BBC News - Deliveroo: Run Eat Out to Help Out again, says takeaway giant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56060962


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I thought I’d read the first few pages of this thread...seems like a lifetime ago.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> I thought I'd read the first few pages of this thread...seems like a lifetime ago.


I'm glad we didn't know at the start how bad it was going to get, too horrific to contemplate back then.


----------



## Lurcherlad

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm glad we didn't know at the start how bad it was going to get, too horrific to contemplate back then.


Though, maybe more people would have taken it seriously and stuck to the rules and maybe it wouldn't have got so bad?


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> Though, maybe more people would have taken it seriously and stuck to the rules and maybe it wouldn't have got so bad?


I just don't feel like I am in lockdown apart from all shops not being open. So I guess when I am out, it feels maybe more like a Sunday shopping day, as not all shops here open Sunday anyway.

I do notice less cars in the car parks, but traffic her, is just as bad as its always been. In the first lockdown I didn't hear much traffic at all. Which is odd as we live either end of 2 busiest roads into my town. 
Now it's just the normal hum of traffic. When you are out and about you need to use pedestrian crossings, before habit had you stopping at them and crossing there but no cars so no need to press a button.


----------



## Cully

Yay, got my letter this morning to book my covid jab for the over 65's. Going on Thursday.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> I just don't feel like I am in lockdown apart from all shops not being open. So I guess when I am out, it feels maybe more like a Sunday shopping day, as not all shops here open Sunday anyway.
> 
> I do notice less cars in the car parks, but traffic her, is just as bad as its always been. In the first lockdown I didn't hear much traffic at all. Which is odd as we live either end of 2 busiest roads into my town.
> Now it's just the normal hum of traffic. When you are out and about you need to use pedestrian crossings, before habit had you stopping at them and crossing there but no cars so no need to press a button.


In my local town everything goes on as normal, except that the cafe's and restaurants can only serve takeaways Apart from that the shops are open.and the only really noticeable difference is that everyone is wearing masks and there might not be so many cars on the road. And we have a curfew from 8pm to 5 in the morning.


----------



## Arny

Apparently 65-69s can book online for an appointment at a vaccination centre if they don't want to wait for an invitation.


----------



## rona

No cases in my town for 2 days now and single figures for the whole district


----------



## Jesthar

Sent to me this morning by an NHS doctor, best summary of lockdown policy I've seen so far:


----------



## Boxer123

Jesthar said:


> Sent to me this morning by an NHS doctor, best summary of lockdown policy I've seen so far:


What I don't understand and I may be stupid . We have gone from 70000 cases a day to 10000 would it really take that much longer to push it right down ? So we could properly track and trace. It seems as though we have given up with track and trace.


----------



## Siskin

I must admit this is what is really annoying me with the Torys over the pandemic as a whole, this continual nagging about either starting restrictions or ending them too early. This is also aided and abetted by the media and various business leaders. The obvious is staring most people in the face (apart from the above it seems), start restrictions early and end them only when scientists deem it safe enough. I know a balance has to be struck on both sides, but this continual drip drip drip feed of opening up the country and ‘getting back to normal’ far too early from Tory back benches is irritating beyond belief. I hope Boris stands firmer then he has done in the past and closes his ears to the nagging


----------



## Guest

I personally think the UK is not ready to come out of lockdown again no matter how slow Boris intends on lifting the restrictions. I know everyone is bored and fed up with being locked down but the numbers are still way to high and need to come down alot more. 

How are they going to tackle future infection spikes?

I doubt very much this will be the last lockdown.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Sent to me this morning by an NHS doctor, best summary of lockdown policy I've seen so far:


It's still a balancing act though between the NHS, the economy and people's mental health.

It's not as simple as just saying close everything until there's no infections. Everything would be fubar by then.


----------



## MilleD

rawpawsrus said:


> I personally think the UK is not ready to come out of lockdown again no matter how slow Boris intends on lifting the restrictions. I know everyone is bored and fed up with being locked down but the numbers are still way to high and need to come down alot more.
> 
> How are they going to tackle future infection spikes?
> 
> I doubt very much this will be the last lockdown.


We would have to learn to live with them. With the majority of the vulnerable vaccinated, the pressure on the NHS would still be a lot less. Yes, some will still die, but they do from flu, and we live with that.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> It's still a balancing act though between the NHS, the economy and people's mental health.
> 
> It's not as simple as just saying close everything until there's no infections. Everything would be fubar by then.


Oh, I'm very aware of that. I work in an industry where, if we closed down, we'd stand a very good chance of causing more UK deaths than covid in mere weeks.

Of the three points you mention, the critical one is the capacity of the NHS. The economy can innovate and adapt in many areas, and help can be provided for people struggling with mental health (and yes, I know that's not going to help everyone. There is no perfect solution to this). But you can't magic more beds or medical staff out of thin air, and what we have is stretched to breaking point. The NHS needs more than to just be able to cope at the moment, it needs time to rest and recover.


----------



## Siskin

Just lightning the mood with a couple of funnies from my good friend across the road


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> It's still a balancing act though between the NHS, the economy and people's mental health.
> 
> It's not as simple as just saying close everything until there's no infections. Everything would be fubar by then.


I agree with this! Lockdown is only meant to lower the pressure on the NHS. Winter is known to be pretty bad with Viruses etc and it would be bad for all sorts of reasons to have constant lockdown all though winter.

I know a few people who feel at the end of their tether with the lockdowns. Some are worried about their jobs as they had been told once they go back they will be conducting interviews and letting some people go!

Also through most of the lockdown the infection numbers stayed high until the vaccines started, they have now been dropping dramatically.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Mrs Funkin said:


> I thought I'd read the first few pages of this thread...seems like a lifetime ago.


It certainly does.


----------



## Lurcherlad

*Four air passengers have each been fined £10,000 for failing to declare they had travelled from a "red-list" country, West Midlands Police has said. *

They were stopped at border control by officials and were not able to leave Birmingham Airport.

Some people still think the rules don't apply to them 

Glad they got caught.


----------



## kimthecat

Got email yesterday from Gov ( clinically vulnerable ) saying to carry on isolating until the 31st of March. 

Lock down is harder this time. Im lucky i live with someone . Must be very hard if you live on your own.


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Lock down is harder this time. Im lucky i live with someone . Must be very hard if you live on your own.


Depends on the person. I live on my own with my moggies, and as an autistic introvert lockdown suits me very well 

I feel for the extroverts, though, they must be climbing the walls...


----------



## kimthecat

I did live on my own for some years . It was nice to be independent and not need to rely on anyone but it was hard when I was ill , not having anyone to make you a cup of tea or walk the dog.


----------



## Siskin




----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Depends on the person. I live on my own with my moggies, and as an autistic introvert lockdown suits me very well
> 
> I feel for the extroverts, though, they must be climbing the walls...


We are :Arghh

When I had my first jab, I sat in the recovery area, and shut my eyes and revelled in the sound of the rumble of voices that I hadn't heard for nearly a year.

It made me quite emotional. Then I went back home to carry on shielding.


----------



## ForestWomble




----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> When I had my first jab, I sat in the recovery area, and shut my eyes and revelled in the sound of the rumble of voices that I hadn't heard for nearly a year.


I will hate every minute of that, I've not been anywhere where's there's been more than 8 people, and then they were all much more than two metres apart. I'm going to find it very worrying


----------



## mrs phas

Another letter arrived today asking clinically vunerable people to keep isolating until march 31st 
So that will be a year +


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> Another letter arrived today asking clinically vunerable people to keep isolating until march 31st
> So that will be a year +


Such a long time hopefully by then the vaccines will be kicking in.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Another letter arrived today asking clinically vunerable people to keep isolating until march 31st
> So that will be a year +


I've had the same one. Sighhhhhhhh


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> I've had the same one. Sighhhhhhhh


Begining to feel like Gollum lost under the mountain


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Begining to feel like Gollum lost under the mountain


My precious!

Which is now freedom


----------



## Lurcherlad

That’s not mandatory though is it?


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> That's not mandatory though is it?


No
But, if like Matt and I, you've done best part of a year already,
Then
It would be daft to blow it all now
IF we were going to do that
Then we might as well gone out and frolicked, with all the naysayers, throughout the year


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> No
> But, if like Matt and I, you've done best part of a year already,
> Then
> It would be daft to blow it all now
> IF we were going to do that
> Then we might as well gone out and frolicked, with all the naysayers, throughout the year


Not suggesting anyone blows it all and goes out frolicking 

Obviously, he doesn't go into work, use public transport, do the supermarket shop, nobody comes in our house, etc. but OH comes out walking with me in quiet areas and out for drives to get a takeaway coffee and cake which we eat in the car.

Obviously, people do what they are comfortable with.


----------



## rona

Just booked a private pool for 3 days in March,in anticipation of swimming being allowed. Fingers crossed


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I will hate every minute of that, I've not been anywhere where's there's been more than 8 people, and then they were all much more than two metres apart. I'm going to find it very worrying


Your setup might be very different, there will be people to talk to if you feel anxious, there was at my place, and it will only be for a short amount of time.

For those of us not happy with the isolation it's been a year nearly, on and off, I really needed to hear those noises.

It's really interesting how different we all are.

Hope it goes ok for you.


----------



## mrs phas

Lurcherlad said:


> Not suggesting anyone blows it all and goes out frolicking


Didn't think for one minute you were 
Sorry if you read my post in that way 
It certainly wasn't meant as insulting:Kiss
I just meant that
 another month, is just another month, when you've done almost a year already, they all blend into one
And 
Mandatory or not 
It's easier for all, especially, in my home, Matthew, just to abide by it


----------



## simplysardonic

mrs phas said:


> No
> But, if like Matt and I, you've done best part of a year already,
> Then
> It would be daft to blow it all now
> IF we were going to do that
> Then we might as well gone out and frolicked, with all the naysayers, throughout the year


My husband's had the letter now too.


----------



## Siskin

I’ve gone out for a walk in my very quiet village if the weathers ok and at the moment I’ve been going to the lymphoedema clinic each Monday, so nice to talk to someone, we just chat away for any hour, it’s lovely. 
Apart from that and the quarterly hospital appointment, not been anywhere since the summer. I keep thinking it will be another couple of months of hopefully watching the infection rate go down before I will feel it’s sensible enough to go out more. We are both looking forward to meeting up with our friends for a meal even if it all sat round a heater outside, it will be so good just to sit and chat for a few hours and feel relatively normal. I don’t mind the staying in bit really, I can be quite antisocial at times, another month or two will soon go


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> New Just booked a private pool for 3 days in March,in anticipation of swimming being allowed. Fingers crossed


???

I thought they said end april/may start before any easing? (Apart from schools)

You should be safe enough in a private pool so hopefully you will get your swim ok.

It's a bit concerning to me that this vaccine doesnt seem to signal the great unlocking we all hoped for. I know they are talking about staycations in summer, but then if hospitality really does stay shut til August that is not going to be great at all.

I have a feeling the rest of this year is a write off too. I have no positivity about going anywhere at all! I half thought about seeing my daughter in the summer who i havent seen since Christmas 2019 but i dont have any confidence to book anything at all.

I think i will need to see things back in full swing for a good few weeks before i try going anywhere further than my own town boundary.


----------



## tyg'smum

I've lost four good friends to Covid this month - only one had underlying health issues, but Covid took his wife and daughter too. 

I'm not going anywhere near anyone soon - for their sake as well as mine.


----------



## Boxer123

tyg'smum said:


> I've lost four good friends to Covid this month - only one had underlying health issues, but Covid took his wife and daughter too.
> 
> I'm not going anywhere near anyone soon - for their sake as well as mine.


So sorry to read this.


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> ???
> 
> I thought they said end april/may start before any easing? (Apart from schools)
> 
> You should be safe enough in a private pool so hopefully you will get your swim ok.


Nothing is known until Boris speaks on Monday. If I leave it until he says things are open, I reckon I risk it will be booked. I don't have to pay until a couple of days before, so no risk to my money


----------



## rona

tyg'smum said:


> I've lost four good friends to Covid this month - only one had underlying health issues, but Covid took his wife and daughter too.
> 
> I'm not going anywhere near anyone soon - for their sake as well as mine.


That's tough, was that a the whole family or is there someone left grieving?


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Nothing is known until Boris speaks on Monday. If I leave it until he says things are open, I reckon I risk it will be booked. I don't have to pay until a couple of days before, so no risk to my money


This is very true. We have been thinking about cottage holidays, but it's going to be a mad rush for them, and the price with go up I assume, so it may be a case of waiting.

Man, I wish this was over.


----------



## StormyThai

tabelmabel said:


> It's a bit concerning to me that this vaccine doesnt seem to signal the great unlocking we all hoped for


I honestly blame the media for a large part of this feeling.
Vaccination rollout was never going to lead to a great unlocking because we can still transport the virus when vaccinated...the numbers need to be much, much lower before we start to move around again otherwise we will continue on this cycle for ever more


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> This is very true. We have been thinking about cottage holidays, but it's going to be a mad rush for them, and the price with go up I assume, so it may be a case of waiting.
> 
> Man, I wish this was over.


A lot of rental agencies will give full refunds if you cannot go because of covid.
Read though as we had trouble with one even though our area was ok and the holiday rental wasn't.


----------



## tyg'smum

rona said:


> That's tough, was that a the whole family or is there someone left grieving?


Only the son left.


----------



## rona

tyg'smum said:


> Only the son left.


OMG that poor guy


----------



## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm glad we didn't know at the start how bad it was going to get, too horrific to contemplate back then.


 ''Three weeks of lockdown and it will be over'' . . . unquote. Can hardly believe it's a year now.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> ''Three weeks of lockdown and it will be over'' . . . unquote. Can hardly believe it's a year now.


This time last year I was just finishing a skiing holiday in Poland.

It feels like about 3 ice ages ago....


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> *Four air passengers have each been fined £10,000 for failing to declare they had travelled from a "red-list" country, West Midlands Police has said. *
> 
> They were stopped at border control by officials and were not able to leave Birmingham Airport.
> 
> Some people still think the rules don't apply to them
> 
> Glad they got caught.


Great that they were caught; but I did read (last week?) that a total of 196 people had been fined £10k, but that to date only five had paid up.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> ''Three weeks of lockdown and it will be over'' . . . unquote. Can hardly believe it's a year now.


Our figures are going up again and yesterday the Chief Medical Officer said Hungary is entering the third wave of new infections.

It's so demoralising as I was just beginning to believe I could widen my horizons just a little bit to include taking the boys for 1 to1 training once the weather improves.

Now seems it's not to be especially as we have been told to expect the lockdown to continue until June.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> Our figures are going up again and yesterday the Chief Medical Officer said Hungary is entering the third wave of new infections.
> 
> It's so demoralising as I was just beginning to believe I could widen my horizons just a little bit to include taking the boys for 1 to1 training once the weather improves.
> 
> Now seems it's not to be especially as we have been told to expect the lockdown to continue until June.


That is very depressing and a real worry. How is the vaccination programme going . . . I seem to remember you said Hungary had received hardly any. It really is not going to go away any time soon by the looks of things.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> That is very depressing and a real worry. How is the vaccination programme going . . . I seem to remember you said Hungary had received hardly any. It really is not going to go away any time soon by the looks of things.


The vaccination programme is going much better than it was, but that's partly due to the government, independent of the EU, having purchased vaccine from Russia, which is at the moment is only being used to vaccinate people in Budapest.

To date in Hungary some 365,000 people have been vaccinated with 144,000 having received their second jab. My GP phoned to say I'm on the list of people to be vaccinated next, and am just waiting to hear when that will be.

Hungary has also purchased and approved the Chinese vaccine. I think the first delivery was earlier this week, and according to the PM together with the Russian supplies the country should soon be well ahead of other EU countries with the vaccination programme.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/chinese-vaccine-pull-hungary-ahead-eu-pm-75851781

*Chinese vaccine will pull Hungary ahead of EU, PM says*


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> Nothing is known until Boris speaks on Monday. If I leave it until he says things are open, I reckon I risk it will be booked. I don't have to pay until a couple of days before, so no risk to my money


It's great that you have this confidence. I have none i have had my vaccine but i dont feel any safer with these new variants. Then a few days ago i saw a friend (acquaintance type friend) putting her bin out.

I asked her if she was still working. Turns out she has long covid and is very ill. Very fatigued. Very breathless, wont be able to work for many months. She is my age (50s) hadnt had the vaccine.

But this is what i was worried about from day one. Not dying, just that feeling of not being able to breathe. It terrifies me.

I havent taken too much notice of boris. I look around, see what is happening and take it from there.

We have booked to go to Blackpool in October, but im starting to have doubts that that will come off tbh. I do listen to a lot of media, that is true but also have my ear to the ground in my local community and we are far from on top of this. This is going to be a very long haul indeed.

There seems to be a lot of concern that our vaccines wont be effective against the new variants, concern that our transmission rates were so high we managed to home grow a new variant (kent) and then this issue with vaccine hesitancy.

So, i will go out again in future of course but i wont be dashing off anywhere even in may. And march seems scary soon. I will watch and wait first to see how safe it is out there . . .ompus


----------



## daveos

Really hope we do not come out of lockdown to early I think a lot of people still do not believe how serious this disease is second jabs need to be done a least first.


----------



## Guest

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-uk-latest-updates-coronavirus-lockdown-vaccine-12222355


----------



## Guest




----------



## Guest




----------



## Guest

There is no hard guarantee this will be the last lockdown, I believe there will be more as the virus mutates and evolves.


----------



## Magyarmum

rawpawsrus said:


> There is no hard guarantee this will be the last lockdown, I believe there will be more as the virus mutates and evolves.


I think I'm right in saying that the increase in new cases in Hungary is due to the UK variant now being found in the country.

Our lockdown hasn't been eased since last year.


----------



## MilleD

I've just been having a root around to see if there is any data on excess deaths as we know the death rate from all illness is likely to be higher in winter (second wave) than the summer (first wave) and the experimental data does seem to bear that out. I'm not sure how this ties up with total numbers of covid deaths, whether it means our numbers are being registered at maybe too high a rate and that it is a fact that more people are dying from other illnesses.

This isn't to spark any arguments, I was just trying to work out why the death rate went so high when the new variants weren't supposed to be more deadly - I know more infections mean more deaths, but we also now have better treatments - hence part of the issue for the NHS - people are living. And it perhaps looks like winter has certainly had a huge impact.

I think what I'm really trying to look for is evidence that some semblance of a summer may happen for us.

Excess mortality in England, week ending 05 February 2021 (phe.org.uk)


----------



## tabelmabel

MilleD said:


> when the new variants weren't supposed to be more deadly -


I really think we have to read between the lines and know that there is a lot we arent being told. Governments don't close down whole economies, with all the very serious ramifications that result from that without very good reason.

I think it was Israel where a third of people who had recovered from covid then got re infected with the Brazilian variant so my guess is that, unless transmission is suppressed to very low levels, these new variants are going to get a chance to take hold.

And infect younger and younger populations. Which is why they will be trialling vaccines on under 18s and developing a vaccine for children.

Boris needs to keep upbeat i suppose to keep morale up, but it isnt really difficult to see that it isnt wise to go off all over the country once restrictions lift.

There is the argument of course that many things in life involve risk. There are ticks in the woods i walk in. I dont want lyme disease but i still go to the woods. But this feels different to me. I just think there is a lot we arent being told.


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> I really think we have to read between the lines and know that there is a lot we arent being told. Governments don't close down whole economies, with all the very serious ramifications that result from that without very good reason.
> 
> I think it was Israel where a third of people who had recovered from covid then got re infected with the Brazilian variant so my guess is that, unless transmission is suppressed to very low levels, these new variants are going to get a chance to take hold.
> 
> And infect younger and younger populations. Which is why they will be trialling vaccines on under 18s and developing a vaccine for children.
> 
> Boris needs to keep upbeat i suppose to keep morale up, but it isnt really difficult to see that it isnt wise to go off all over the country once restrictions lift.
> 
> There is the argument of course that many things in life involve risk. There are ticks in the woods i walk in. I dont want lyme disease but i still go to the woods. But this feels different to me. I just think there is a lot we arent being told.


Sounds a tad conspiracyish if I'm honest.

There is very good reason to close things down with the information we have been given. The NHS is being overwhelmed.

I'm sure 1/3 of people in Israel haven't been reinfected - where is that data from?

Yes, there are reinfections, but the difference is that people are not dying from those reinfections, so it's a bit like the protection the vaccination gives. It's not total, you may still catch it, but the antibodies you then carry will fight the infection and in most cases prevent serious illness.


----------



## SbanR

As long as it stops a person coming down with long Covid; that is what worries me most. There have been cases of asymptomatic healthy young adults showing signs of long Covid


----------



## tabelmabel

MilleD said:


> I'm sure 1/3 of people in Israel haven't been reinfected - where is that data from?


It was discussed last night on Question Time (there was no mention of how ill they were - the main topic of discussion was the effacacy of our current vaccines)

As i said before, dying doesnt worry me (well, ideally i dont want to die as i still have a dependent child)

It is the long covid that is a worry to me. I think my chances of dying of covid are very low. But the chance of long covid is very high. So, everything i do, im asking the question 'is this worth the risk' and most things, no.

I wont be going to see my daughter in the summer, nor my aunt in Yorkshire. Hopefully my mother in law who is just 15 miles down the road and has had her vaccine.

You just have to work out what you're comfortable with but i cannot believe the amount of folk that went visiting others at Christmas and nor can i believe the amount of folk that went ahead and tried to book a foreign holiday this year.

I dont look to boris for guidance. I will make my own mind up and let others test the water first.


----------



## Siskin

If my son and his partner don’t get vaccinated (they say that won’t have it), they won’t be seeing me. My ultimate weapon is to say ‘do you want to be the reason your parents die from covid?’. Sounds harsh I know, but it’s how I feel at the moment and I want them to be safe from the virus as well. The reason they don’t want the vaccine is that they believe a lot of the conspiracy theories that are going around.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> I've just been having a root around to see if there is any data on excess deaths as we know the death rate from all illness is likely to be higher in winter (second wave) than the summer (first wave) and the experimental data does seem to bear that out. I'm not sure how this ties up with total numbers of covid deaths, whether it means our numbers are being registered at maybe too high a rate and that it is a fact that more people are dying from other illnesses.
> 
> This isn't to spark any arguments, I was just trying to work out why the death rate went so high when the new variants weren't supposed to be more deadly - I know more infections mean more deaths, but we also now have better treatments - hence part of the issue for the NHS - people are living. And it perhaps looks like winter has certainly had a huge impact.
> 
> I think what I'm really trying to look for is evidence that some semblance of a summer may happen for us.
> 
> Excess mortality in England, week ending 05 February 2021 (phe.org.uk)


Ironically, lockdown, mask wearing and social distancing has actually reduced the impact of the usual winter illnesses (flu, common colds etc.) by up to 95%, so they have had a much lower contribution rate this year. Which is just as well, as the NHS would have struggled to handle both covid and just the normal flu surge, let alone anything else.


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> Ironically, lockdown, mask wearing and social distancing has actually reduced the impact of the usual winter illnesses (flu, common colds etc.) by up to 95%, so they have had a much lower contribution rate this year.


Of course the cynical amongst us could say that Flu deaths are being wrongly attributed to Covid!
After all "Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test." is pretty ambiguous.


----------



## Calvine

Blackadder said:


> Of course the cynical amongst us could say that Flu deaths are being wrongly attributed to Covid!
> After all "Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test." is pretty ambiguous.


 And dying ''with Covid'' is different from dying ''from'' it.


----------



## Lurcherlad

tabelmabel said:


> I really think we have to read between the lines and know that there is a lot we arent being told. Governments don't close down whole economies, with all the very serious ramifications that result from that without very good reason.
> 
> I think it was Israel where a third of people who had recovered from covid then got re infected with the Brazilian variant so my guess is that, unless transmission is suppressed to very low levels, these new variants are going to get a chance to take hold.
> 
> And infect younger and younger populations. Which is why they will be trialling vaccines on under 18s and developing a vaccine for children.
> 
> Boris needs to keep upbeat i suppose to keep morale up, but it isnt really difficult to see that it isnt wise to go off all over the country once restrictions lift.
> 
> There is the argument of course that many things in life involve risk. There are ticks in the woods i walk in. I dont want lyme disease but i still go to the woods. But this feels different to me. I just think there is a lot we arent being told.


There has to be a balance between keeping the right level of seriousness to encourage us to adhere to guidelines whilst giving some positivity too.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> And dying ''with Covid'' is different from dying ''from'' it.


It is, but I don't think that data is available.


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> It's great that you have this confidence. I have none i have had my vaccine but i dont feel any safer with these new variants. Then a few days ago i saw a friend (acquaintance type friend) putting her bin out.
> 
> I asked her if she was still working. Turns out she has long covid and is very ill. Very fatigued. Very breathless, wont be able to work for many months. She is my age (50s) hadnt had the vaccine.
> 
> But this is what i was worried about from day one. Not dying, just that feeling of not being able to breathe. It terrifies me.
> 
> I havent taken too much notice of boris. I look around, see what is happening and take it from there.
> 
> We have booked to go to Blackpool in October, but im starting to have doubts that that will come off tbh. I do listen to a lot of media, that is true but also have my ear to the ground in my local community and we are far from on top of this. This is going to be a very long haul indeed.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of concern that our vaccines wont be effective against the new variants, concern that our transmission rates were so high we managed to home grow a new variant (kent) and then this issue with vaccine hesitancy.
> 
> So, i will go out again in future of course but i wont be dashing off anywhere even in may. And march seems scary soon. I will watch and wait first to see how safe it is out there . . .ompus


But this pool would just be me and partner. It would have been safe during lock down as long as we practice good hand hygiene.


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> But this pool would just be me and partner. It would have been safe during lock down as long as we practice good hand hygiene.


Oh you will be fine - im not trying to frighten the life out of you and nor do i believe any conspiracy theories.

Im just in a very different mindset from you. Swimming isnt my thing anyway but im not thinking past 'stay at home' just now. May has been widely referenced as the unlocking time so march seems very optimistic.


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> Oh you will be fine - im not trying to frighten the life out of you and nor do i believe any conspiracy theories.
> 
> Im just in a very different mindset from you. Swimming isnt my thing anyway but im not thinking past 'stay at home' just now. May has been widely referenced as the unlocking time so march seems very optimistic.


It is, and I don't expect it to be open but I need something positive in my life right now. I've also got March 15th booked in a little cottage we go to, just 30 miles away. We would be the first in for months, so that would be extra safe too...........I don't expect to be able to go, but I can still hope.

It's going to be my only chance I feel because I think I'll be fairly tied up after that


----------



## tabelmabel

Well i will keep everything crossed for you!


----------



## rona

Mmm, so all around West Sussex the positive cases are plummeting except Gatwick.........I wonder if that's in the quarantine hotels!

I hope so


----------



## Siskin

The rate is plummeting in my area too, only two cases positive on the Cotswolds and none in my part of the area


----------



## ForestWomble

296 cases in my area in the latest week  and 586 in the area that I'm really close to


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> This is very true. We have been thinking about cottage holidays, but it's going to be a mad rush for them, and the price with go up I assume, so it may be a case of waiting.
> 
> Man, I wish this was over.


I wouldnt leave it too long. They're already being booked


----------



## kimthecat

tyg'smum said:


> Only the son left.


oh that heartbreaking . Poor lad.


----------



## Calvine

I have just read that next Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, a whole load of buses here (London) will not be running owing to strike action. This means that trains and tubes will be packed solid in the rush hour, people trying to get to work (nurses, care workers, nursery staff) who cannot choose what time to travel will be forced to be packed like sardines, social distancing out of the window. Thanks for that, guys, very considerate, well-timed and much appreciated. Bus drivers should be grateful they still have a job; many do not have.


----------



## Siskin

ForestWomble said:


> 296 cases in my area in the latest week  and 586 in the area that I'm really close to


Crumbs, that's scary


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> Crumbs, that's scary


Yes, and to think my area was one of the lowest in the first lockdown and I felt OK about still taking B. out, until the government said people could travel and we had loads of people turning up, now the area I'm close to has a per 100,000 people number a lot higher than the average and I'm petrified just going out my door.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

If you find the idea of mandating young school children to wear face masks as abhorrent as me, you can print out an exemption card here. Stop. This. Now.


----------



## Jobeth

I honestly wouldn’t worry that they are going to make young children wear masks in schools. Even teachers don’t wear them in the classrooms as it is against DfE guidance.


----------



## Guest

samuelsmiles3 said:


> If you find the idea of mandating young school children to wear face masks as abhorrent as me, you can print out an exemption card here. Stop. This. Now.
> View attachment 462882


I think it's a good idea and they should have done it already to protect the other children and teachers in the classroom.


----------



## StormyThai

I honestly don't understand what is so abhorrent about teaching a child about a virus and how we can help to stop spreading the virus so that we can get back to some sort of normality.
I personally know many children that happily wear face coverings because there parents have done a fantastic job of teaching those children why we are doing it and if we do it now it won't be forever.

Obviously if the child is actually exempt due to age or a disability then no judgment should be made.


----------



## O2.0

Jobeth said:


> I honestly wouldn't worry that they are going to make young children wear masks in schools. Even teachers don't wear them in the classrooms as it is against DfE guidance.


Really?
I'm in the US - southeast and our school district has largely stayed open other than a few weeks here and there where we had too many quarantined to run the schools properly. Quarantine for us simply means the person was a close contact to someone who tested positive so they quarantine for 10 days then get tested. Not all quarantines get sick. Actually most have not.

But anyway, our schools have been open since September of 2020 and all children from the 4 year olds to the 18 year olds wear masks, as do the teachers. It hasn't been an issue at all. Certainly far better than all the MH problems that we're having throughout the country because of children being isolated and not in school.

It's not without issues of course, it's harder to hear/understand what someone is saying wearing a mask, and facial expressions are harder to read, but if wearing a mask keeps the schools open, I'd much rather that.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rawpawsrus said:


> I think it's a good idea and they should have done it already to protect the other children and teachers in the classroom.


I agree.

A friend's daughter works as a TA and was extremely anxious at not being allowed to wear one.

The school finally relented and she can wear one for one to one teaching.

My great niece is 3 and whilst it's not compulsory for children under 7 to wear one in DomRep, she wanted to and enjoys wearing her colourful one.

Secondary school pupils and teachers, staff etc. should wear them indoors imo.


----------



## Lurcherlad

On a lighter note ....


----------



## SusieRainbow

I don't think mask wearing is a hardship for most chldren, my 10 yr old grandson wears his super cool comic strip ones with pleasure at every opportunity.
Agreed, if it keeps schools safe and open it should be encouraged for staff and children. There are such pretty and cool masks available for boys and girls.


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> I don't think mask wearing is a hardship for most chldren, my 10 yr old grandson wears his super cool comic strip ones with pleasure at every opportunity.
> Agreed, if it keeps schools safe and open it should be encouraged for staff and children. There are such pretty and cool masks available for boys and girls.


I agree with all that is being said about children wearing masks, it makes sense to me. 
I would be interested to hear why @samuelsmiles3 does not think children should do so. I suspect a reason might be is that young children appear not to be transmitters of the virus, but it's not entirely proven and mutations may behave in a different way.

A friend of mines daughter who is in her 50's works in a special needs school which has been still running during the lockdown. She and the children don't wear masks which worries her greatly as the virus could easily be spread from teacher to child or vica versa. The staff have been asking to have the vaccine and after a lot of faffing this has finally happened.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Really?
> I'm in the US - southeast and our school district has largely stayed open other than a few weeks here and there where we had too many quarantined to run the schools properly. Quarantine for us simply means the person was a close contact to someone who tested positive so they quarantine for 10 days then get tested. Not all quarantines get sick. Actually most have not.
> 
> But anyway, our schools have been open since September of 2020 and all children from the 4 year olds to the 18 year olds wear masks, as do the teachers. It hasn't been an issue at all. Certainly far better than all the MH problems that we're having throughout the country because of children being isolated and not in school.
> 
> It's not without issues of course, it's harder to hear/understand what someone is saying wearing a mask, and facial expressions are harder to read, but if wearing a mask keeps the schools open, I'd much rather that.


Preschools, kindergartens and classes for the under 14's have been open since the beginning of September 2020 in Hungary. The children have their temperature taken before entering school each morning. High schools and universities are closed and learning is online. Health care workers, teachers and childcare workers are tested weekly for the virus. .


----------



## Guest

My friend's husband is a teacher in a Primary School and towards the beginning of this lockdown when they tried to reopen schools the teachers refused to go in and the school head teacher respected this and kept the primary school closed as there had been a number of children catching the virus. Younger children should wear masks, the virus doesn't pick and choose who it is going to infect.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I see no reason why younger children shouldn't wear masks most of them know what's going on, their parents and they see people all around them wearing them so it should be worrying for them.


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> Really?
> I'm in the US - southeast and our school district has largely stayed open other than a few weeks here and there where we had too many quarantined to run the schools properly. Quarantine for us simply means the person was a close contact to someone who tested positive so they quarantine for 10 days then get tested. Not all quarantines get sick. Actually most have not.
> 
> But anyway, our schools have been open since September of 2020 and all children from the 4 year olds to the 18 year olds wear masks, as do the teachers. It hasn't been an issue at all. Certainly far better than all the MH problems that we're having throughout the country because of children being isolated and not in school.
> 
> It's not without issues of course, it's harder to hear/understand what someone is saying wearing a mask, and facial expressions are harder to read, but if wearing a mask keeps the schools open, I'd much rather that.











Here's part of the guidance from the DfE and the report: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-in-education/face-coverings-in-education


----------



## Guest

I was drawn to this bit on the link in the above post:-


----------



## Jobeth

They are talking about Y7 and above and only in communal areas.


----------



## Guest

rawpawsrus said:


> I was drawn to this bit on the link in the above post:-
> View attachment 462937


I still think the message the Government is putting out to the public is not strong enough. It should be children full stop have to wear face masks as they do catch the virus as well and do pass it on. The message the Government puts out is confusing at times as it comes across as if it is all over the place.


----------



## Gemmaa

Not sure I can see a problem with children wearing a cotton covering. Can't help thinking people have had to cope with so much worse than a bit of fabric....................


----------



## Boxer123

Gemmaa said:


> Not sure I can see a problem with children wearing a cotton covering. Can't help thinking people have had to cope with so much worse than a bit of fabric....................


Children are amazingly resilient.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Boxer123 said:


> Children are amazingly resilient.


And very adaptable.


----------



## Magyarmum

Gemmaa said:


> Not sure I can see a problem with children wearing a cotton covering. Can't help thinking people have had to cope with so much worse than a bit of fabric....................


I remember wearing one of those gas masks. They smelled of rubber which wasn't very pleasant. WW2 started the day before I was born and ended 2 days before my 5th birthday. Even at that tender age I knew what the war was all about (admittedly a simplified version) and why I had to wear a mask. I don't think wearing a gas mask has scarred me for life or affected my mental health, but maybe I'm just lucky. ?


----------



## tabelmabel

Siskin said:


> I would be interested to hear why @samuelsmiles3 does not think children should do so.


I dont know this poster but i do know that some arguments against it have been

- risk of suffocation in children below 3yrs due to smaller airways. And given that many younger children above 3 often have snotty noses it isnt hard to imagine that breathing could be compromised.

- social and communication concerns. Restricting children from expressing themselves easily in a classroom situation

- there has also been concern expressed over children wearing masks when adults arent directly supervising. For example on the school bus where nose bleeds or vomiting could be dangerous to a young child with small airways in a mask.

Not giving a view either way. Just highlighting the concerns raised so far


----------



## tabelmabel

Cripes! Coming on here into the middle of the mask thing totally wiped my memory for what i actually came on this thread for today. I have @rona and @Lurcherlad to thank for this.(not diverting me from the task - i mean genuine thanks for lifting my spirits!)

We already had our week booked in blackpool and you know i was quite gloomy about it happening. Well, your positive attitude rubbed off and i have extended our stay and tagged on extra days to visit my elderly aunt in yorkshire!

Phoned her today and she is pleased about that. Havent seen her since april 2019.

She is my closest relative outside OH and our kids - my Godmother and the only one left i keep regular contact with.

And im also tempted to book another room in the blackpool hotel for my son and his girlfriend.

My eldest daughter we havent seen since december 2019 - i am having to keep her on dog sitter stand by. I got onto Barking Mad to book the dogs (home boarding) and he never replied. Then he phoned me to say they were still in biz but had taken other jobs but he would get invoice out.

Hopefully soon.

So im feeling hugely boosted after booking the hotels. Just something to look forward to!

Thanks, you two


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh dear . . . . .well, i'm not known as the threadkiller for nothing:Blackalien


Hopefully this thread will be a rocking and a rolling in the morning again. It seems as if you were all having a good old debate about kids in masks and i barged in and killed it stone dead:Bag:Shy


Sorry, folks


----------



## SusieRainbow

tabelmabel said:


> Oh dear . . . . .well, i'm not known as the threadkiller for nothing:Blackalien
> 
> Hopefully this thread will be a rocking and a rolling in the morning again. It seems as if you were all having a good old debate about kids in masks and i barged in and killed it stone dead:Bag:Shy
> 
> Sorry, folks


Don't worry TM, it's lasted 500+ pages and good for a few more I reckon !


----------



## rona

tabelmabel said:


> Cripes! Coming on here into the middle of the mask thing totally wiped my memory for what i actually came on this thread for today. I have @rona and @Lurcherlad to thank for this.(not diverting me from the task - i mean genuine thanks for lifting my spirits!)
> 
> We already had our week booked in blackpool and you know i was quite gloomy about it happening. Well, your positive attitude rubbed off and i have extended our stay and tagged on extra days to visit my elderly aunt in yorkshire!
> 
> Phoned her today and she is pleased about that. Havent seen her since april 2019.
> 
> She is my closest relative outside OH and our kids - my Godmother and the only one left i keep regular contact with.
> 
> And im also tempted to book another room in the blackpool hotel for my son and his girlfriend.
> 
> My eldest daughter we havent seen since december 2019 - i am having to keep her on dog sitter stand by. I got onto Barking Mad to book the dogs (home boarding) and he never replied. Then he phoned me to say they were still in biz but had taken other jobs but he would get invoice out.
> 
> Hopefully soon.
> 
> So im feeling hugely boosted after booking the hotels. Just something to look forward to!
> 
> Thanks, you two


I hope it works out for you


----------



## tabelmabel

SusieRainbow said:


> Don't worry TM, it's lasted 500+ pages and good for a few more I reckon !


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

The mask wearing convo was pretty lively before i entered the room though

I came in and everyone left. octor


----------



## SbanR

tabelmabel said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> The mask wearing convo was pretty lively before i entered the room though
> 
> I came in and everyone left. octor


You have some Powerful Juju!:Bag:Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123

SbanR said:


> You have some Powerful Juju!:Bag:Hilarious


----------



## ForestWomble

Maybe the masks need to do the same as the Mickey Mouse gas masks, then whoever it is saying what-ever-it-is-they-are-saying won't say what thy are saying when children are going around wearing masks enjoying making the rude sounds they can make


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Walking through a town with my dogs yesterday it was distressing to see so many people wearing masks outdoors. So it was a joy when, as I passed a girl without a mask, we said "good morning" and she gave the most beautiful smile I have ever seen. 

There is a rare amount of humanity left in the world. Not much, but it makes it worth getting up in the morning to seek it out.


----------



## Cully

Is it just me or does anyone else find it painful listening to the vaccine minister, Nadhim Zahawi, um and er his way through yet another interview on BBC Breakfast?
It's important info, and I know he's not a trained presenter, but oh he's hard work. And not the only one either:Banghead!


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find it painful listening to the vaccine minister, Nadhim Zahawi, um and er his way through yet another interview on BBC Breakfast?
> It's important info, and I know he's not a trained presenter, but oh he's hard work. And not the only one either:Banghead!


He doesn't bother me too much as I don't pay too much attention to ministers; it's the medics n others that grab my attention
What did get me was how bald Boris is becoming; he'll look so weird if he loses all his hair from the front. Wonder if he'll wear a wig, or have a hair transplant


----------



## StormyThai

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Walking through a town with my dogs yesterday it was distressing to see so many people wearing masks outdoors. So it was a joy when, as I passed a girl without a mask, we said "good morning" and she gave the most beautiful smile I have ever seen.
> 
> There is a rare amount of humanity left in the world. Not much, but it makes it worth getting up in the morning to seek it out.


I wear a mask outside (due to the fact that others can't seem to be able to keep their distance) because it makes me feel more comfortable when passing others.
I am terribly sorry that you find my actions distressing and lacking in humanity even though I am fully capable to greeting people while out and about and that includes smiling...and I'm not the only one that's for sure.

Maybe if more people took personal responsibility for mask wearing instead of looking up to a government that has shown that the economy is more important than the people then we wouldn't be in this never ending cycle of lockdowns and we too could have had a fairly normal Christmas.

You have yet to explain what is so abhorrent about face masks?

*General statement, not directed at anyone in this thread, just something that has been going around my head a lot recently and with my Aunt's funeral today it is shouting louder than normal*
Maybe if less adults bitched and moaned about wearing a fabric face covering while out in public then maybe more kids would learn by example...more people wearing a face covering means less (I know it doesn't stop the virus...not much does, that is why viruses are so successful) chance of spreading the virus...why on earth is there such a backlash?

With schools set to open again very soon with no change to the lack of mask wearing in the schools we are just going to head right back into lockdown...


----------



## Siskin

People may not be able to see your mouth when you wear a mask, but eyes can show a smile too. I have been making the effort to show I’m smiling with my eyes, it’s quite easy to do and is understood by others.

It is being said by scientists that you are less likely to pick up covid when in the open air, but it doesn’t rule it out completely, so I will continue to wear a mask in busier situations (don’t go to many at present) because many seem to either forget or ignore social distancing. Surely they are at fault not me or others wearing a mask


----------



## ebonycat

I can't agree with what @StormyThai said enough.

This is not meant to come across as nasty, but I really do not care if my wearing a mask outside makes me come across as lacking in humanity or is distressing for some people.
I was diagnosed with a lung disease middle of last year (I was first admitted into hospital in May, then again in June).
I sometimes have to use oxygen (inside my house & when outside), I have a dog that needs to be walked daily.
Thankfully I can rely on my mum & step father to look after her at their house if I ever need help.
But having her with me makes me feel better, she brightens my days (I live alone).
I hardly go out at all, only for essential trips. 
I put a mask on as soon as I leave my house.

Some people still don't follow the rules, they don't social distance, the people that do wear masks don't always wear them correctly (this is a huge big bear for me).
I'm in the critically, extremely vulnerable group, ok you could tell me to stay indoors all the time (which I do do apart from essential trips out), but I'm allowed out for exercise, walking my dog.
Wearing a mask might not completely keep me safe but they do help.

I'm not going to stop wearing a mask when I go outside just because 'some' people think it's lacking in humanity or it's distressing.
I can't wear a visor (I've tried) as I'm severely sight impaired.

When I pass someone (at a social distance) & they say morning to me or I know them/ their dog then I say hello/ morning etc.
As @Siskin says you can smile with your eyes.

Sorry didn't mean for this to be a rant


----------



## Bisbow

I have had my two doses of the vaccine but I can still be a danger to others so I still wear a mask when I am out, not that that is much.
I have lung problems as well so even though I am pretty well covered I do not want to tempt fate or put other people at risk
wearing a mask is no hardship to me and it makes me feel better and I still greet people with a friendly remark


----------



## MilleD

The roadmap sounds interesting. Sounds like a lot of reviews going to be done alongside as well to urge caution.


----------



## O2.0

tabelmabel said:


> - risk of suffocation in children below 3yrs due to smaller airways. And given that many younger children above 3 often have snotty noses it isnt hard to imagine that breathing could be compromised.
> 
> - social and communication concerns. Restricting children from expressing themselves easily in a classroom situation
> 
> - there has also been concern expressed over children wearing masks when adults arent directly supervising. For example on the school bus where nose bleeds or vomiting could be dangerous to a young child with small airways in a mask.


As I said earlier on this thread, in our school district 4 year olds and older have been wearing masks since September - in school, on busses. Not one issue with breathing, nose bleeds or vomiting or anything similar. 
I will grant that it's harder to understand someone wearing a mask. But again and again children and teachers prove how resilient and resourceful they are.

I understand the concerns, and certainly I don't want to see us wearing masks forever. However, right now it's the best we can do until everyone is vaccinated. So you do the best you can, and in this case it's wearing masks.


----------



## Jobeth

They’ve just updated it to masks should be worn in classrooms in secondary schools if social distancing can’t be maintained.


----------



## Calvine

O2.0 said:


> I don't want to see us wearing masks forever


Indeed not; and I'm grateful I don't have to wear one all day long, an hour or two when I'm out is enough for me.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm so used to wearing my mask at work in the hospital that even when I'm the only one in the room, generally before the working day properly starts, I still have it on. My eyebrows have become much more expressive as a result  I'm a runner and don't run in a mask, I have no issue with people who are out wearing a mask though as long as they don't make sarcastic comments as I go past them - which sadly some folk do. 

I am wondering if wearing a mask in hospital will continue though, both for staff and patients. No doubt we shall see very soon. 

Mostly I'm excited about being able to have four friends in the garden for my birthday, as last year was just at the start of lockdown - I honestly can't wait!


----------



## MollySmith

Can't agree enough with @StormyThai and @ebonycat . I wear a mask outside as I have dyspraxia which affected my balance so I'm not as quick at moving out the way if some arse walks at me when I'm walking with Molly. I can still speak and wave.


----------



## MollySmith

'Cheer up love might never happen'... one upside is my resting bitch face is never commented on
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/style/face-masks-women.html


----------



## Calvine

SbanR said:


> He doesn't bother me too much as I don't pay too much attention to ministers; it's the medics n others that grab my attention
> What did get me was how bald Boris is becoming; he'll look so weird if he loses all his hair from the front. Wonder if he'll wear a wig, or have a hair transplant


 He always looks like he has never once combed his hair in his whole life. Mind you, with what he has put up with since he has been PM, I'm amazed he has any hair left at all. He is still impossibly(?) blond, and unlike the Donald, I really don't think he bleaches it. (Yes, I really have checked to see the colour of his roots and they are no darker than the rest of the mop . . . shows you how bored I have been this year.) But yes, strange: if guys are going to lose their hair, it normally starts well before late fifties (or whatever age he admits to being).


----------



## Boxer123

I don't mind wearing a mask I bought some comfy NQEI masks from boots. 

I found this interesting today 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56085529


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> I don't mind wearing a mask I bought some comfy NQEI masks from boots.
> 
> I found this interesting today
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56085529


We lived in east London for a few years when I was about a year to 6 years of age and can remember having a scarf wrapped over my mouth and nose during smogs


----------



## MilleD

A rather excellent summary of the road map out of lockdown


----------



## tabelmabel

Hooray! The thread has been resucitated!



Jobeth said:


> They've just updated it to masks should be worn in classrooms in secondary schools if social distancing can't be maintained.


I was so surprised to hear this. As you know, im in Scotland where mask wearing was _always_ mandatory in secondary schools.

Not in primary schools (i hesitate to mention it again but those possible negatives listed in my earlier thread were the ones put to the Scottish government, debated and it was decided that, in the absence of actual proof that masks were safe for young kids, they could not make them mandatory. So our primary school kids always take masks into schools but only wear them at certain times. Not all day like the older kids)

I have no view either way on younger kids wearing them as im just not currently close enough to young children to affect me or my family at all.

But i do like to see the masks worn outside and everwhere. I dont keep mine on when walking the dogs, but i certainly do when exiting the shop. Put it on in my house, wear it all the way to the shop, inside and not off til i come home again.


----------



## Boxer123

tabelmabel said:


> Hooray! The thread has been resucitated!
> 
> I was so surprised to hear this. As you know, im in Scotland where mask wearing was _always_ mandatory in secondary schools.
> 
> Not in primary schools (i hesitate to mention it again but those possible negatives listed in my earlier thread were the ones put to the Scottish government, debated and it was decided that, in the absence of actual proof that masks were safe for young kids, they could not make them mandatory. So our primary school kids always take masks into schools but only wear them at certain times. Not all day like the older kids)
> 
> I have no view either way on younger kids wearing them as im just not currently close enough to young children to affect me or my family at all.
> 
> But i do like to see the masks worn outside and everwhere. I dont keep mine on when walking the dogs, but i certainly do when exiting the shop. Put it on in my house, wear it all the way to the shop, inside and not off til i come home again.


I'm the same if I go to the shops it's stays on until I wash my hands and get home.

A lady came out of a gate today and she had a mask on loki looked like he might give her a telling off but she said a lovely bright hello to him got a waggy tail in response no issues.


----------



## Siskin

Pleased to have an email from the manager of the site where we have our static van and she says all being well the site should be open on the 12th April. We will go as soon as we’ve had our second jab and my quarterly checkup, both of which should be in April


----------



## tabelmabel

Great news @Siskin


----------



## Siskin

tabelmabel said:


> Great news @Siskin


It's given me something to look forward to, like you are with your Blackpool trip. I think we all need a bit of a boost at the moment and it's great to have a plan. It will only be ourselves that are allowed, no friends or family can visit possibly until June depending how it all goes with covid. I just want to be there by at least the last week or two of April and go in search of a nightingale singing. We heard loads in 2019 so know where to find them as they like to return to the same spot.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had another letter from the government reminding me that I'm Clinically Extremely Vulnerable and that I should shield until 31st of March and they'll write again in the middle of March with further advise. 

It must be costing a fortune sending all these letters telling us what we ready have been told on more than one occasion.


----------



## Guest

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just had another letter from the government reminding me that I'm Clinically Extremely Vulnerable and that I should shield until 31st of March and they'll write again in the middle of March with further advise.
> 
> It must be costing a fortune sending all these letters telling us what we ready have been told on more than one occasion.


Received one as well. At least the letters are getting quicker.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> I'm the same if I go to the shops it's stays on until I wash my hands and get home.


If I go to a shop, I wear it until I've packed the car and put the trolley back. Then I sanitise gel before I get in the car and take off the mask.

Hopefully that's as safe as possible.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Managed to move our week’s break in May from 10th to after 17th when restrictions will be lifted.

We took a gamble when we booked it and had to change the accommodation but just glad we weren’t caught out with being booked in too early


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just had another letter from the government reminding me that I'm Clinically Extremely Vulnerable and that I should shield until 31st of March and they'll write again in the middle of March with further advise.
> 
> It must be costing a fortune sending all these letters telling us what we ready have been told on more than one occasion.


Matt got another today about going for his jab 
All very well 
But 
He went for it on the 15th!


----------



## Jobeth

Lurcherlad said:


> Managed to move our week's break in May from 10th to after 17th when restrictions will be lifted.
> 
> We took a gamble when we booked it and had to change the accommodation but just glad we weren't caught out with being booked in too early


I booked mine last year for the week before Easter in an area which has different term dates. Cottages.com sent an email yesterday saying that it was cancelled but it was really easy to move it. Annoyingly though it cost £500 more just to move it to May as then they have the same half term.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jobeth said:


> I booked mine last year for the week before Easter in an area which has different term dates. Cottages.com sent an email yesterday saying that it was cancelled but it was really easy to move it. Annoyingly though it cost £500 more just to move it to May as then they have the same half term.


Oh that's a bummer.

Hope it won't be mobbed by other peoples' kids too now


----------



## Jobeth

Lurcherlad said:


> Oh that's a bummer.
> 
> Hope it won't be mobbed by other peoples' kids too now


I spend my life surrounded by them!


----------



## Siskin

Very interesting Horizon program on BBC2 this evening about the virus, mutations and how they come about, vaccinations how they were made and will they stop transmission or not, long covid and why it seems to happen. Lots and lots of interesting facts and worth while watching on catch up


----------



## JoanneF

This morning on breakfast tv, Bonnie Tyler was being interviewed - big hair, full makeup - her partner even handed her a mug with a _straw_ so she wouldn't smudge her lipstick. I commented to Mr F that I've never even had makeup on since lockdown started.

There was a brief pause and he said "erm - I hadn't even noticed ... do I get brownie points for saying that?" I think he does!


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha @JoanneF - same here! I heard a thing on the radio that all over the UK people are dressing up on Friday nights and cooking a fancy meal and pretending they are in a restaurant.

One woman said she dressed up in her Wedding dress and it was fabulous! Sounds very romantic.

Dont think there'd be any chance of me fitting into my wedding dress mind but im sure OH would appreciate a bit more effort lol


----------



## JoanneF

tabelmabel said:


> Ha ha @JoanneF - same here! I heard a thing on the radio that all over the UK people are dressing up on Friday nights and cooking a fancy meal and pretending they are in a restaurant


D'you know, I really don't think I could be bothered. is that bad?


----------



## cat001

The last update on my work colleague, despite their best efforts he sadly passed away today. A year younger than me and with two kids, it really isn't fair.


----------



## Siskin

JoanneF said:


> D'you know, I really don't think I could be bothered. is that bad?


Nope, I'm the same. Haven't noticed OH dressing up and producing candle lit dinners of Fridays either


----------



## tabelmabel

That's very sad, @cat001 - just early 30s? It is awful how this virus really can strike anyone.

My daughter is 27 and one of her friends is still suffering badly with long covid since last May

@JoanneF - I must admit I couldnt be bothered either but it's probably one of these ideas that would be well worth it once the effort had been made.

The closest we got was when they screened the plays and musicals during the first lockdown, we always made sure we watched live.

So, every Friday night we planned our evening meal earlier, got tidied up and went through to our TV room with our nibbles for 7.30p.m.

And it did make that night feel a bit more special. We didnt do the dressing up or anything but i can see how that could have made it feel even more like a night out


----------



## Cully

@cat001 , That's devastating news. And you're right, it isn't fair!!


----------



## Lurcherlad

cat001 said:


> The last update on my work colleague, despite their best efforts he sadly passed away today. A year younger than me and with two kids, it really isn't fair.


Very sad


----------



## lullabydream

@cat001 so sorry for your loss

As for the rest of you; @JoanneF @tabelmabel @Siskin throughout this pandemic people have been dressing up to take their bins out and to go to their living rooms.. What is wrong with you 3, make up expires. I hope you manage to at least clean your make up brushes in this pandemic then!

Here I am so excited for some new eyeshadow palettes to arrive!


----------



## tabelmabel

Ha ha ha yes i saw that lady in all those wonderful dresses she had made pictured at her bins every day throughout the first lockdown!

I dont tend to wear make up anyway - logic being that once you start wearing make up every day, you have to carry on really dont you. I mind OH catching our normally very glam neighbour once without any make up on when he knocked on her door (not in covid times, years ago) and he got such a fright seeing her looking ancient with no make up at all he still mentions it now sometimes!

I think it is brilliant that you're still doing your make up @lullabydream  Do you watch "Glow up" at all on TV?

I love that. I watch with my daughter - it is so amazing what can be done with make up. Some of the creations are pure works of art.

My neighbour got her make up done professionally for a wedding and ended up looking like Eddie Izard - her experience has put me off getting a professional to do it tbh:Hilarious


----------



## lullabydream

tabelmabel said:


> Ha ha ha yes i saw that lady in all those wonderful dresses she had made pictured at her bins every day throughout the first lockdown!
> 
> I dont tend to wear make up anyway - logic being that once you start wearing make up every day, you have to carry on really dont you. I mind OH catching our normally very glam neighbour once without any make up on when he knocked on her door (not in covid times, years ago) and he got such a fright seeing her looking ancient with no make up at all he still mentions it now sometimes!
> 
> I think it is brilliant that you're still doing your make up @lullabydream  Do you watch "Glow up" at all on TV?
> 
> I love that. I watch with my daughter - it is so amazing what can be done with make up. Some of the creations are pure works of art.
> 
> My neighbour got her make up done professionally for a wedding and ended up looking like Eddie Izard - her experience has put me off getting a professional to do it tbh:Hilarious


No I don't know what glow up is.. But I guess a makeover show. Am not always keen on them!

I love make up and usually wear it but not obsessive like some people.

I have seen some terrible so called good make up artists, and Instagram makeup gosh that is going to look terrible in natural light. Well same is true of the beauty gurus on YouTube anything can look amazing with good lighting


----------



## tabelmabel

lullabydream said:


> No I don't know what glow up is.. But I guess a makeover show. Am not always keen on them!


Oh you_ have _to give it a go @lullabydream! I think you will love it. There have been 2 series so far and they both showed on bbc3 first. Then i think they did get screened on two but you would need to search them up on i player now to see if they are still available.

Fronted by stacey dooley, and with 2 experts in make up and fashion, it starts with maybe about 10 aspiring make up artists (usually folk that have got into it as a hobby or maybe work on a make up counter and want to turn professional)

Each week they face a challenge. Often creating a look for a fashion shoot. And the judges (the 2 pros on the show, no public voting) decide on who goes home that week.

At the end of the series they have a winner who wins an amazing opportunity to work with a pro and make contacts, learn the ropes etc.

It is such a good show, really is. It is more for model looks on cat walks, magazine, tv shoots etc but - wow - what talent some folk have.


----------



## StormyThai

Well I've just had an invite for my vaccine so I have booked my first one on Wednesday and then I go for my second in May


----------



## JoanneF

lullabydream said:


> make up expires


I got a fabulous eye shadow pallette when I was 16 - honestly I still have it. I'm 60 this year - I think any bacteria probably died as it is so seldom used?


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> @cat001 so sorry for your loss
> 
> As for the rest of you; @JoanneF @tabelmabel @Siskin throughout this pandemic people have been dressing up to take their bins out and to go to their living rooms.. What is wrong with you 3, make up expires. I hope you manage to at least clean your make up brushes in this pandemic then!
> 
> Here I am so excited for some new eyeshadow palettes to arrive!


I've chucked out all my make up years ago as I don't wear any. I'm so allergic to creams and lotions, much prefer to go bare faced then have allergy rashes


----------



## lullabydream

JoanneF said:


> I got a fabulous eye shadow pallette when I was 16 - honestly I still have it. I'm 60 this year - I think any bacteria probably died as it is so seldom used?


My sister who is 51 and her old school friends go to 80s night wearing the same make up the wore in the 80s. I think they should know better because ones a science teacher!

I don't think it's just bacteria though. I know even now brands occasionally get called out for say asbestos in their make up. Talc and asbestos is usually found naturally together. How strict was rules then in testing?!?!?

Although in all fairness, if I still had Rimmel Toffee Apple lipstick which I loved. Then I wouldn't care if it was from the 80s/90s...still hold grudge with rimmel for discontinuing that shade and keeping Heather shimmer, black cherries, drop of sherry but not the most perfect red/brown colour. Still to this day can't find anything I think resembles it at all!


----------



## Siskin

We're still battling COVID-19 and the next thing is here already.

The *NILE Virus, type C* 

Virologists have identified a new Nile virus - type C.
It appears to target those who were born between 1940 & 1970

Symptoms:

1. Causes you to send the same message twice.
2. Causes you to send a blank message
3. Causes you to send a message to the wrong person.
4. Causes you to send it back to the person who sent it to you.
5. Causes you to forget to attach the attachment.
6. Causes you to hit SEND before you've finished.
7. Causes you to hit DELETE instead of SEND.
8. Causes you to SEND when you should DELETE.

It is called the *C-NILE* virus.

And if you can’t admit to doing the above, you’ve obviously caught the mutated strain - 

The *D-NILE* virus.


----------



## Cully

JoanneF said:


> I got a fabulous eye shadow pallette when I was 16 - honestly I still have it. I'm 60 this year - I think any bacteria probably died as it is so seldom used?


:Hilarious You don't need no covid vaccine girl, you're immune to every bug going!!!


----------



## rona

rona said:


> It is, and I don't expect it to be open but I need something positive in my life right now
> It's going to be my only chance I feel because I think I'll be fairly tied up after that


Have rebooked all my swims and now have 9 dates booked between April 12th and June 21st. when I hope my normal pool will be open



tabelmabel said:


> I have @rona and @Lurcherlad to thank for this.(not diverting me from the task - i mean genuine thanks for lifting my spirits!)
> We already had our week booked in blackpool and you know i was quite gloomy about it happening. Well, your positive attitude rubbed off and i have extended our stay and tagged on extra days to visit my elderly aunt in yorkshire!
> 
> Phoned her today and she is pleased about that. Havent seen her since april 2019.
> 
> She is my closest relative outside OH and our kids - my Godmother and the only one left i keep regular contact with.
> 
> And im also tempted to book another room in the blackpool hotel for my son and his girlfriend.
> 
> My eldest daughter we havent seen since december 2019 - i am having to keep her on dog sitter stand by. I got onto Barking Mad to book the dogs (home boarding) and he never replied. Then he phoned me to say they were still in biz but had taken other jobs but he would get invoice out.
> 
> Hopefully soon.
> 
> So im feeling hugely boosted after booking the hotels. Just something to look forward to!
> 
> Thanks, you two


So, does lockdown lifting fit your dates?


----------



## tabelmabel

rona said:


> So, does lockdown lifting fit your dates?


Oh i am hoping so but of course we have no end to the lockdown in Scotland yet. It is going on for ever up here.

October we are booked for Blackpool but who knows what the state of play will be by then . . .

Glad you got your swims re booked


----------



## Siskin

I’ve emailed my hairdressers to see if I can make an appointment. They said in their fb page that they are now taking bookings.


----------



## JoanneF

Siskin said:


> New I've emailed my hairdressers


Look at Nicola Sturgeon's hair in January, and now. That has definitely been cut, and it doesn't look like a kitchen scissors job to me.


----------



## HarlequinCat

JoanneF said:


> Look at Nicola Sturgeon's hair in January, and now. That has definitely been cut, and it doesn't look like a kitchen scissors job to me.


Huh, I never noticed, but now you say that....

Maybe her husband is a dab hand with the scissors .

Its a lot of do what I say, not what I do with these people in charge or public eye


----------



## kittih

HarlequinCat said:


> Huh, I never noticed, but now you say that....
> 
> Maybe her husband is a dab hand with the scissors .
> 
> Its a lot of do what I say, not what I do with these people in charge or public eye


I read that her hair stylist has been giving her and her husband advice over zoom or similar. Perhaps it's not as difficult if you have a professional able to direct the hair trim etc. Partners of my friends have managed to hive them some fairly decent haircuts and I guess they are getting quite good at it over the last year.


----------



## JoanneF

kittih said:


> and her husband advice


I hope Murrell gets a good deal on that -


----------



## HarlequinCat

kittih said:


> I read that her hair stylist has been giving her and her husband advice over zoom or similar. Perhaps it's not as difficult if you have a professional able to direct the hair trim etc. Partners of my friends have managed to hive them some fairly decent haircuts and I guess they are getting quite good at it over the last year.


Maybe not, but I wouldnt trust my partner taking scissors to my hair, even under supervision


----------



## tabelmabel

JoanneF said:


> Look at Nicola Sturgeon's hair in January, and now. That has definitely been cut, an


Sorry, half your quote got lopped off there. Yes, how did you miss that first lockdown?! Dont you remember all the hooha over Nicola's hair and she put something on her Twitter account or some social media anyway about how she goes on the zoom with her hairdresser and gets talked through step by step.

It showed her cutting her own hair.

OH and I are doing mine. I have short hair and i really dont like it when it starts to curl up when it gets too long. He took the clippers to the back last lockdown and i couldnt book the hairdresser til October as it took that long to grow any hair worth cutting:Hilarious


----------



## rona

JoanneF said:


> Look at Nicola Sturgeon's hair in January, and now. That has definitely been cut, and it doesn't look like a kitchen scissors job to me.


You can't say that about Boris 



HarlequinCat said:


> Maybe not, but I wouldnt trust my partner taking scissors to my hair, even under supervision


I did a few months ago, just needed the back done, I'd done the front, said just take the straggly bits off.......................   

*NEVER AGAIN*


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> I've emailed my hairdressers to see if I can make an appointment. They said in their fb page that they are now taking bookings.


Hairdressers, beauty salons and dog groomers have never closed in Hungary. The last time I went to the hairdresser was over a year ago. I haven't been since because her salon is tiny and there's no way I'm risking catching the virus just to get my hair cut.

I've been cutting it myself with the scissors I bought for trimming the Schnauzer boys. My hair is dead straight and the first time I cut it , it turned out a bit lop sided, but not too noticeably. I cut i again a couple of weeks ago and this time was really pleased with the result.

The boys have got an appointment at the groomers in the middle of this month, so I might trim my hair again so we all look smart and are ready for spring!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Magyarmum said:


> Hairdressers, beauty salons and dog groomers have never closed in Hungary. The last time I went to the hairdresser was over a year ago. I haven't been since because her salon is tiny and there's no way I'm risking catching the virus just to get my hair cut.
> 
> I've been cutting it myself with the scissors I bought for trimming the Schnauzer boys. My hair is dead straight and the first time I cut it , it turned out a bit lop sided, but not too noticeably. I cut i again a couple of weeks ago and this time was really pleased with the result.
> 
> The boys have got an appointment at the groomers in the middle of this month, so I might trim my hair again so we all look smart and are ready for spring!


You could ask the groomer to do yours too while you're there!


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> You could ask the groomer to do yours too while you're there!


No thank you! She hand strips the boys and I really don't fancy having my hair pulled out by the roots


----------



## Happy Paws2

HarlequinCat said:


> Maybe not, but I wouldnt trust my partner taking scissors to my hair, even under supervision


OH has cut mine three times since lockdown I do a small bit at the front to get the length and he leaves the rest, he hasn't done a bad job of it.



rona said:


> You can't say that about Boris


I makes you wonder how he has the nerve to been be seen looking like a scarecow,


----------



## tabelmabel

Happy Paws2 said:


> I makes you wonder how he has the nerve to been be seen looking like a scarecow,


I do know that he fluffs up that messy look directly before the cameras start rolling so he must think it adds to his bluff and bluster character


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> ou can't say that about Boris





Happy Paws2 said:


> I makes you wonder how he has the nerve to been be seen looking like a scarecow,


Look at his last appearance. He's gone quite bald at the front; he needs that messy look to hide it


----------



## Happy Paws2

tabelmabel said:


> I do know that he fluffs up that messy look directly before the cameras start rolling so he must think it adds to his bluff and bluster character





SbanR said:


> Look at his last appearance. He's gone quite bald at the front; he needs that messy look to hide it


Well he just looks a scruffy PR*T and when you look at other world leaders he should be a shamed of himself. Even DT was always smart.


----------



## Siskin

Have a hair appointment on the 20th April! Yay, can’t wait


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> You can't say that about Boris


To be fair, Boris's haircut doesn't look like it was done with kitchen scissors either...

...more like a garden strimmer after a few too many G&Ts


----------



## Magyarmum

Our new infection rates are going up again, apparently due to the new UK variant which is now in Hungary. We've been told to expect shopping malls and schools to be closed for at least two weeks. Only supermarkets, pharmacies and bank would remain open.

Not good news!


----------



## Magyarmum

Well today it's just been announced that between March 8th to March 22nd Hungary will be closed!

Our infection rate has been rocketing over the past 3 weeks and the government has decided all shops except grocery stores, pharmacies, and petrol stations will be shut, as will all kindergarten and primary schools.

And here was I hoping that things were getting better. Just shows how wrong you can be.


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Well today it's just been announced that between March 8th to March 22nd Hungary will be closed!
> 
> Our infection rate has been rocketing over the past 3 weeks and the government has decided all shops except grocery stores, pharmacies, and petrol stations will be shut, as will all kindergarten and primary schools.
> 
> And here was I hoping that things were getting better. Just shows how wrong you can be.


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> Well today it's just been announced that between March 8th to March 22nd Hungary will be closed!
> 
> Our infection rate has been rocketing over the past 3 weeks and the government has decided all shops except grocery stores, pharmacies, and petrol stations will be shut, as will all kindergarten and primary schools.
> 
> And here was I hoping that things were getting better. Just shows how wrong you can be.


Oh dear. How's the vaccination programme going?


----------



## ForestWomble

Sorry to hear @Magyarmum

Will this ever end?


----------



## Jesthar

ForestWomble said:


> Will this ever end?


Probably not for a while; there's likely to be a surge every time restrictions are relaxed for a few more rounds yet, even with vaccinations. Particularly as there will be plenty who flout the remaining restrictions. Covid is just doing what viruses do, travelling from host to host and with the strongest varients surviving, so themore social interaction there is, the more opportunities it gets to be passed on. At least the vaccines should mean those who do get it won't have such a bad case of it.


----------



## Cully

Jesthar said:


> Probably not for a while; there's likely to be a surge every time restrictions are relaxed for a few more rounds yet, even with vaccinations. Particularly as there will be plenty who flout the remaining restrictions. Covid is just doing what viruses do, travelling from host to host and with the strongest varients surviving, so themore social interaction there is, the more opportunities it gets to be passed on. At least the vaccines should mean those who do get it won't have such a bad case of it.


My concern with this news is that it may be misinterpreted into meaning it's ok for those who were more vulnerable to go out now they've had the first vaccination. And even after both jabs it's still transmissible.
Just because they are less likely to become severely ill, they can still pass it on to others. Plus we need to have time to tweak the vaccines so they are effective against any variants.
Please be patient a little longer so we don't have a major setback. I don't think we could take another one.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> My concern with this news is that it may be misinterpreted into meaning it's ok for those who were more vulnerable to go out now they've had the first vaccination. And even after both jabs it's still transmissible.
> Just because they are less likely to become severely ill, they can still pass it on to others. Plus we need to have time to tweak the vaccines so they are effective against any variants.
> Please be patient a little longer so we don't have a major setback. I don't think we could take another one.


Yes, it worries me when I hear people saying that they've had their jab and are looking forward to getting out again, I remind those I know that just because they've had the jab doesn't mean they won't get the virus or/and pass it on, they've still got to be careful.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> My concern with this news is that it may be misinterpreted into meaning it's ok for those who were more vulnerable to go out now they've had the first vaccination. .


What??! 

You mean I shouldn't be dancing in the aisles in Aldi??


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> What??!
> 
> You mean I shouldn't be dancing in the aisles in Aldi??


Nobody should be dancing in the aisles in Aldi, they're so narrow you'll knock everything off the shelves!


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Even DT was always smart


You're right: his suits were well made, not crumpled and stretched over his gut. Saw a recent photo, and his hair has been cut shorter and its natural silver grey. He hinted recently that he may run in 2024 (thought I'd let you know that, @Happy Paws2, as you and I used to get some good laughs when we read ''what The Donald did next '').


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Oh dear. How's the vaccination programme going?


The vaccination programme's going very well. To date some 863,000 people have been vaccinated with about 280,000 having received their second vaccination.The government aims to have another 478,000 people vaccinated within the next 7 days.

Anyone who wanted to be vaccinated was asked to register on a government website which opened in November last year. Some 2,5 million people registered and now all health and essential workers have been vaccinated, it's this list list that people are being chosen from, according to their age and medical condition.

It really is scary because today the new infections rose to over 6000 people, which I think is the most ever in one day. In my own county over 400 new infections, a huge leap from fewer than 100 a week ago.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. Numbers are really good, no new infections locally. Government has just announced that there will be no lifting of travel restrictions for Easter. I'm very relieved to hear this as there was a huge surge after Christmas/ New year. 

Still very slow with the vaccinations, not even done the over 70s yet.


----------



## Lurcherlad

We really mustn’t rush headlong into reopening.

Isle of Man thought they had it beat and there were many scenes of packed hostelries and zero social distancing.

The island is now back in full Lockdown.

Schools going back (whilst essential really) does make me nervous. I think a figure of 10 million people was mentioned on tv who will be mixing anew indoors when they go back.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> We really mustn't rush headlong into reopening.
> 
> Isle of Man thought they had it beat and there were many scenes of packed hostelries and zero social distancing.
> 
> The island is now back in full Lockdown.
> 
> Schools going back (whilst essential really) does make me nervous. I think a figure of 10 million people was mentioned on tv who will be mixing anew indoors when they go back.


Not sure it will make much difference round here with all the reports of gangs of kids roaming and the playparks being full....


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Not sure it will make much difference round here with all the reports of gangs of kids roaming and the playparks being full....


I know what you mean, but they usually stick to their own little groups.

Now they'll all be mixing together with all the other groups, possibly from different areas, as well as the poor staff.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Not sure it will make much difference round here with all the reports of gangs of kids roaming and the playparks being full....


We went 'the long way home' from shopping last week. 5 minutes longer in the car, but in my OHs defence he was avoiding road works. Passed 2 children's play parks, very busy. Also noted children in groups, such as pre teens as teenagers so am guessing it's life as normal for most. I don't think they were all from same families at all. I think with schools going back people don't understand concepts of bubbles in them or how they are working


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> We really mustn't rush headlong into reopening.
> 
> Isle of Man thought they had it beat and there were many scenes of packed hostelries and zero social distancing.
> 
> The island is now back in full Lockdown.
> 
> Schools going back (whilst essential really) does make me nervous. I think a figure of 10 million people was mentioned on tv who will be mixing anew indoors when they go back.


The unvaccinated mixing with the unvaccinated, then freed to return to work to mix with generally unvaccinated.

What you worried about?


----------



## rona

Figures for my local authority for the last week 
4
3
47
1
3
2
3

I haven't heard of any major infection anywhere 
Do you think someones finger slipped?


----------



## Jobeth




----------



## rona

205 square miles is the size of my district and yesterday there was no new covid cases


----------



## rona

Had my very first covid test today. 

Not because of symptoms, but because of visiting my friend


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Had my very first covid test today.
> 
> Not because of symptoms, but because of visiting my friend


What was it like?

It's my great nephews 5th birthday in a few days and I will miss it, the same as his last birthday because of lockdown.  He is growing up so quickly. I only saw him a couple of times last year.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> What was it like?
> 
> It's my great nephews 5th birthday in a few days and I will miss it, the same as his last birthday because of lockdown.  He is growing up so quickly. I only saw him a couple of times last year.


It was a Lateral Flow test and I did it myself. I thought I would have issues because of sensitive sinuses, but it was absolutely fine. The bit you stick in your mouth and up your nose is so fine now, not much more than width than a mane hair off a horse 
It's this tiny bottle brush effect 

Must be hard when it's like that. From just after first lockdown, you've been able to see terminally ill, well at least one person has, and of course he was my bubble

I do find it hard that he's had to rely on just me for everything, since he's been away from home. 
Even though he's getting care now, my whole day is taken up with stuff to sort, just for him
I'm not a natural carer and I've had to do things I would have said I'd never do, apart from for my mum!


----------



## kimthecat

@rona. you're a good person and you have a kind heart, Rona.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> @rona. you're a good person and you have a kind heart, Rona.


She is isn't she, her friend is very lucky to have someone like her who cares for him.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

The health of a society is not just the absence of illness.


----------



## StormyThai

Any chance that you might actually mention what your actual problem with wearing masks to reduce the spread of a virus is?
Instead of just posting pictures and articles of kids wearing masks with comments about how awful we are to be teaching children to care about others enough to put a simple fabric face covering that also reduces the risk of them getting sick.

There is much, much more damaging things happening to our children in this world...why get so hung up on a piece of cloth?
Would you prefer that we kept them all out of school? Or should we just say sod it, the NHS is buggered anyway so why bother trying to help our frontline workers by not overburdening them?


----------



## tabelmabel

Yes, I too would like to know why @samuelsmiles3 has an issue with masks. Further back in this thread, he posted something about it and i outlined some reasons against it as discussed by the Scottish Parliament because samuel smiles had disappeared leaving questions as the what his issue is.

But when he returned to the thread, he never actually confirmed or denied that anything i referred to was his issue.

So, come on, @samuelsmiles3 - let's hear it, please!


----------



## Jobeth

I work in schools and primary children don’t wear masks so I think it’s a non issue. The article mentions two schools and neither made it compulsory.


----------



## tabelmabel

Ah - interesting @Jobeth. I'm in Scotland as you know and primary school children don't wear masks for all the negative reasons i outlined further back in the thread (i wont repeat as i just end up getting bashed on samuelsmile's behalf lol)

Our high school pupils wear them all day long, everywhere from arriving at school to leaving.

But it is a non issue to me and for all of us here in Scotland. I didnt know the situation in England.


----------



## Boxer123

Jobeth said:


> I work in schools and primary children don't wear masks so I think it's a non issue. The article mentions two schools and neither made it compulsory.


I agree it's optional for pupils definitely a non issue.


----------



## rona

I think someone in our road, had a get together last night. There were 6 cars leaving within 30 mins at about 2-2.30am! We are only a small Cul-de-sac 

I have a feeling I know who


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> I think someone in our road, had a get together last night. There were 6 cars leaving within 30 mins at about 2-2.30am! We are only a small Cul-de-sac
> 
> I have a feeling I know who


We had that last Saturday, next door had family over it ended in a very loud argument at 1am.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Gibraltar had everyone who wanted vaccinated. Or nearly. Cases fell and now no one is hospital and only 15 residents with active cases.
So it is working.
Considering we had the highest number of deaths per capita in the world it is a great relief.

Schools open, restaurants and shops too.


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Gibraltar had everyone who wanted vaccinated. Or nearly. Cases fell and now no one is hospital and only 15 residents with active cases.
> So it is working.
> Considering we had the highest number of deaths per capita in the world it is a great relief.
> 
> Schools open, restaurants and shops too.


Can't wait until we are the same


----------



## Guest

My friend's son has been sent home on Friday as his entire class (bubble in primary school) has been sent home to self isolate and his dad has also been told to self isolate as he was teaching the class that day. They have all been told to take a Covid test and do another Covid test in 7 days time. That didn't take long before there was a case of Covid.


----------



## StormyThai

rawpawsrus said:


> That didn't take long before there was a case of Covid.


There has already been at least 3 shutdowns for a clean with one of the local schools...not sure how many people were involved but I do know that the school was shut for 7 days after each case.
There will always be new cases passed on through schools...kids make great vectors for viruses but hopefully it won't get as bad as last time because regular testing is in place (well it is here).


----------



## Jesthar

StormyThai said:


> *Any chance that you might actually mention what your actual problem with wearing masks to reduce the spread of a virus is?*
> Instead of just posting pictures and articles of kids wearing masks with comments about how awful we are to be teaching children to care about others enough to put a simple fabric face covering that also reduces the risk of them getting sick.
> 
> There is much, much more damaging things happening to our children in this world...why get so hung up on a piece of cloth?
> Would you prefer that we kept them all out of school? Or should we just say sod it, the NHS is buggered anyway so why bother trying to help our frontline workers by not overburdening them?


Going on past evidence, I wouldn't hold out much hope...


----------



## Calvine

First anniversary of lockdown; so they are wanting us to stand on our doorsteps at 8 pm with candles or torches as a ''beacon of remembrance''. Sick of this damned nonsense.


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> First anniversary of lockdown; so they are wanting us to stand on our doorsteps at 8 pm with candles or torches as a ''beacon of remembrance''. Sick of this damned nonsense.


I agree, but it may help others


----------



## Happy Paws2

Here we go again.....play the video..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-56575135


----------



## Siskin

Oh for heavens sake, they have no idea do they. The mess they unthinkingly left behind for someone else to clear up, they really are no better then babies


----------



## tabelmabel

It is concerning that all these folk look to be of working age with no work to do on a mid week afternoon. Everywhere you go now midweek is packed out; it's surprising that they can afford to take so much leisure time.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Here we go again.....play the video..
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-56575135


I used to walk through the Arboretum on my way home from school and my wedding reception was held at the Arboretum Hotel which has since closed down..


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> Here we go again.....play the video..
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-56575135


Utter madness.


----------



## MilleD

tabelmabel said:


> It is concerning that all these folk look to be of working age with no work to do on a mid week afternoon. Everywhere you go now midweek is packed out; it's surprising that they can afford to take so much leisure time.


On furlough maybe?


----------



## tabelmabel

Oh of course! Never thought of that - i do hope so. Im looking forward to things quietening down again. It has been busier during lockdown here than at any other time, even on rainy days.


----------



## Maurey

tabelmabel said:


> It is concerning that all these folk look to be of working age with no work to do on a mid week afternoon. Everywhere you go now midweek is packed out; it's surprising that they can afford to take so much leisure time.


Not in the UK, myself, but could be that they're working from home, so they're taking the chance to enjoy the outdoors while its nice (and there are fewer people out), and just work later into the evening. That's what I tend to do, as my workplace is happy as long as I get what I need done, and am there for any zoom calls.


----------



## Nonnie

tabelmabel said:


> It is concerning that all these folk look to be of working age with no work to do on a mid week afternoon. Everywhere you go now midweek is packed out; it's surprising that they can afford to take so much leisure time.


We're in lockdown. If they cant go to work, what are they supposed to be doing?


----------



## tabelmabel

Nonnie said:


> We're in lockdown. If they cant go to work, what are they supposed to be doing?


Yeah - completely forgot about furlough. I only know people who have been lucky enough to be able to work from home and they are working as many hours, or more, as before.

My son lost his work (retail) but luckily has picked up more. I dont know anyone personally that has any extra leisure time on their hands besides myself tbh


----------



## Jobeth

My niece is on furlough and I’ve got two weeks off work. I’m only taking her to places where you have to buy a ticket to access them.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

Sometimes I think, what's the point any more.

Face masks mandatory on Spanish beaches for everyone aged 6 and over this summer - even when sunbathing


----------



## StormyThai

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Sometimes I think, what's the point any more.


When all you can do is bitch (and yes I view this as bitching) about people being asked to wear a simple cloth face coving without giving a simple valid explanation as to why you find this practice so abhorrent...I wonder what your point is too


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Sometimes I think, what's the point any more.
> 
> Face masks mandatory on Spanish beaches for everyone aged 6 and over this summer - even when sunbathing


Would you have felt the same way if during the HIV epidemic, you'd been asked wear a condom whilst having sex to prevent infection? A lot of people believed it couldn't happen to them and ended up suffering a prolonged and painful death by denying the reality of what was happening.


----------



## Calvine

Macron apparently addressing the nation later today ''amid rumours'' that they are heading for another lockdown as hospitals are overwhelmed.


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> Sometimes I think, what's the point any more.
> 
> Face masks mandatory on Spanish beaches for everyone aged 6 and over this summer - even when sunbathing


The point is to help keep people as safe as possible during a global pandemic using a long standing proven method of preventing the spread of exhalation-borne viral infections.

What's _YOUR_ point?


----------



## Calvine

To get back to the thread (with any luck): Macron is blaming their new restrictions on ''the British variant'' - he would, I suppose


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> To get back to the thread (with any luck): Macron is blaming their new restrictions on ''the British variant'' - he would, I suppose


It's probably also accurate, to be fair. It is a major variant.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> It's probably also accurate, to be fair. It is a major variant.


Additionally, his country's less than impressive vaccination programme, abysmal you might say, has not helped. Wasting time (and lives) politicising the whole business instead of getting on getting people covered was not a good idea. I imagine UK has the same variant and has managed to deal with it.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> It's probably also accurate, to be fair. It is a major variant.


IF it even originated here.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> IF it even originated here.


That is a good point and well made. There are only a few countries that are routinely testing samples of the coronavirus for variants, I think the U.K. is the only one in Europe. Apparently it's something this country is good at.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> That is a good point and well made. There are only a few countries that are routinely testing samples of the coronavirus for variants, I think the U.K. is the only one in Europe*. Apparently it's something this country is good at.*


That makes a change for us to be good at something.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> IF it even originated here.


Just another reason not to care what people are calling it, or read too much into it politically. Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain, either.


----------



## Magyarmum

An interesting article about how the coronavirus is evolving.

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article...ding,+and+the+rise+of+preprints&utm_campaign=

*Covid-19 variants: Five things to know about how coronavirus is evolving*


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well, if the behaviour of people this morning in my second hunt for a certain thing for Oscar is anything to go by, the rates will be flying up soon enough. 

Shopping is NOT a day out. I repeat shopping is NOT a day out. Go on your own unless you have your carer with you or you really have nobody to look after your little ones. You don't need to go in a group of six people. Truly. 

Shopping in the late morning/middle of the day is busy. Do NOT wear your exemption lanyard and start swearing at people in the queue because you've got to wait and "I've got a lanyard" and huffing your potentially germ ridden breath at everyone just because it's busy. If you are that ill that you need an exemption lanyard, get internet shopping, or use one of the amazing neighbourhood services to help, or go early - and don't abuse the rest of us that are in the shop and wearing a b****y face mask. 

Do NOT wear an exemption lanyard and a big badge saying "respect my distance" and then practically breathe down my neck - I might as well have been giving you a piggyback, so don't get snarky when I ask you to step back from me - to be 2m away. 

I have the rage, can you tell? There are genuinely people that cannot wear a face mask - please don't take the **** out of them and us just because you don't like wearing a face mask. I wear one ALL DAY at work and an apron and gloves and a visor. Am I moaning about it? No. Do I wear it to protect the public and my colleagues. Yes. Do me a favour - it's been a year, realise that the reason you are wearing a mask/visor is NOT to stop you getting it ("oh I'll be fine if I get it, I'm as strong as an ox" - errm, why have you got an exemption lanyard if you are as strong as an ox? That doesn't quite add up for me - most people wearing a lanyard are doing so for a physical health reason, not a mental health reason) you are wearing a face mask to hopefully stop you transmitting it. Hells bells. 

Ggggrrrrrrrr. 

I feel better now. Thanks.


----------



## Charity

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, if the behaviour of people this morning in my second hunt for a certain thing for Oscar is anything to go by, the rates will be flying up soon enough.
> 
> Shopping is NOT a day out. I repeat shopping is NOT a day out. Go on your own unless you have your carer with you or you really have nobody to look after your little ones. You don't need to go in a group of six people. Truly.
> 
> Shopping in the late morning/middle of the day is busy. Do NOT wear your exemption lanyard and start swearing at people in the queue because you've got to wait and "I've got a lanyard" and huffing your potentially germ ridden breath at everyone just because it's busy. If you are that ill that you need an exemption lanyard, get internet shopping, or use one of the amazing neighbourhood services to help, or go early - and don't abuse the rest of us that are in the shop and wearing a b****y face mask.
> 
> Do NOT wear an exemption lanyard and a big badge saying "respect my distance" and then practically breathe down my neck - I might as well have been giving you a piggyback, so don't get snarky when I ask you to step back from me - to be 2m away.
> 
> I have the rage, can you tell? There are genuinely people that cannot wear a face mask - please don't take the **** out of them and us just because you don't like wearing a face mask. I wear one ALL DAY at work and an apron and gloves and a visor. Am I moaning about it? No. Do I wear it to protect the public and my colleagues. Yes. Do me a favour - it's been a year, realise that the reason you are wearing a mask/visor is NOT to stop you getting it ("oh I'll be fine if I get it, I'm as strong as an ox" - errm, why have you got an exemption lanyard if you are as strong as an ox? That doesn't quite add up for me - most people wearing a lanyard are doing so for a physical health reason, not a mental health reason) you are wearing a face mask to hopefully stop you transmitting it. Hells bells.
> 
> Ggggrrrrrrrr.
> 
> I feel better now. Thanks.


Well said @MrsFunkin, great rant


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, if the behaviour of people this morning in my second hunt for a certain thing for Oscar is anything to go by, the rates will be flying up soon enough.
> 
> Shopping is NOT a day out. I repeat shopping is NOT a day out. Go on your own unless you have your carer with you or you really have nobody to look after your little ones. You don't need to go in a group of six people. Truly.
> 
> Shopping in the late morning/middle of the day is busy. Do NOT wear your exemption lanyard and start swearing at people in the queue because you've got to wait and "I've got a lanyard" and huffing your potentially germ ridden breath at everyone just because it's busy. If you are that ill that you need an exemption lanyard, get internet shopping, or use one of the amazing neighbourhood services to help, or go early - and don't abuse the rest of us that are in the shop and wearing a b****y face mask.
> 
> Do NOT wear an exemption lanyard and a big badge saying "respect my distance" and then practically breathe down my neck - I might as well have been giving you a piggyback, so don't get snarky when I ask you to step back from me - to be 2m away.
> 
> I have the rage, can you tell? There are genuinely people that cannot wear a face mask - please don't take the **** out of them and us just because you don't like wearing a face mask. I wear one ALL DAY at work and an apron and gloves and a visor. Am I moaning about it? No. Do I wear it to protect the public and my colleagues. Yes. Do me a favour - it's been a year, realise that the reason you are wearing a mask/visor is NOT to stop you getting it ("oh I'll be fine if I get it, I'm as strong as an ox" - errm, why have you got an exemption lanyard if you are as strong as an ox? That doesn't quite add up for me - most people wearing a lanyard are doing so for a physical health reason, not a mental health reason) you are wearing a face mask to hopefully stop you transmitting it. Hells bells.
> 
> Ggggrrrrrrrr.
> 
> I feel better now. Thanks.


 They all had their kids with them today, end of term, so about four squeezed into a self-service till space. But you are right; twice now I've actually had someone behind me step on my heel in a queue, you know the ones, Mr or Mrs No-time whose lives are so much busier and time so much more limited than we lesser mortals. And the masks round the chins make me want to scream. But I did see a bus driver refuse to open the bus door until some guy put a mask on.


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, if the behaviour of people this morning in my second hunt for a certain thing for Oscar is anything to go by, the rates will be flying up soon enough.
> 
> Shopping is NOT a day out. I repeat shopping is NOT a day out. Go on your own unless you have your carer with you or you really have nobody to look after your little ones. You don't need to go in a group of six people. Truly.
> 
> Shopping in the late morning/middle of the day is busy. Do NOT wear your exemption lanyard and start swearing at people in the queue because you've got to wait and "I've got a lanyard" and huffing your potentially germ ridden breath at everyone just because it's busy. If you are that ill that you need an exemption lanyard, get internet shopping, or use one of the amazing neighbourhood services to help, or go early - and don't abuse the rest of us that are in the shop and wearing a b****y face mask.
> 
> Do NOT wear an exemption lanyard and a big badge saying "respect my distance" and then practically breathe down my neck - I might as well have been giving you a piggyback, so don't get snarky when I ask you to step back from me - to be 2m away.
> 
> I have the rage, can you tell? There are genuinely people that cannot wear a face mask - please don't take the **** out of them and us just because you don't like wearing a face mask. I wear one ALL DAY at work and an apron and gloves and a visor. Am I moaning about it? No. Do I wear it to protect the public and my colleagues. Yes. Do me a favour - it's been a year, realise that the reason you are wearing a mask/visor is NOT to stop you getting it ("oh I'll be fine if I get it, I'm as strong as an ox" - errm, why have you got an exemption lanyard if you are as strong as an ox? That doesn't quite add up for me - most people wearing a lanyard are doing so for a physical health reason, not a mental health reason) you are wearing a face mask to hopefully stop you transmitting it. Hells bells.
> 
> Ggggrrrrrrrr.
> 
> I feel better now. Thanks.


Agree with @Charity well said @Mrs Funkin 
Am with you about people wearing lanyards and could quite easily wear face masks. If it's not causing you undue distress, then bloody wear one. One person I know picks and chooses where she wears a mask and always has the lanyard on for times she doesn't want to. She makes a mockery of the scheme like many do.

There must be memes all over about those chin wearing, and one's showing their nose, taking it down to talk which is the most dangerous bit for spread @Calvine I could go on about mask wearers and those too close


----------



## daveos

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well, if the behaviour of people this morning in my second hunt for a certain thing for Oscar is anything to go by, the rates will be flying up soon enough.
> 
> Shopping is NOT a day out. I repeat shopping is NOT a day out. Go on your own unless you have your carer with you or you really have nobody to look after your little ones. You don't need to go in a group of six people. Truly.
> 
> Shopping in the late morning/middle of the day is busy. Do NOT wear your exemption lanyard and start swearing at people in the queue because you've got to wait and "I've got a lanyard" and huffing your potentially germ ridden breath at everyone just because it's busy. If you are that ill that you need an exemption lanyard, get internet shopping, or use one of the amazing neighbourhood services to help, or go early - and don't abuse the rest of us that are in the shop and wearing a b****y face mask.
> 
> Do NOT wear an exemption lanyard and a big badge saying "respect my distance" and then practically breathe down my neck - I might as well have been giving you a piggyback, so don't get snarky when I ask you to step back from me - to be 2m away.
> 
> I have the rage, can you tell? There are genuinely people that cannot wear a face mask - please don't take the **** out of them and us just because you don't like wearing a face mask. I wear one ALL DAY at work and an apron and gloves and a visor. Am I moaning about it? No. Do I wear it to protect the public and my colleagues. Yes. Do me a favour - it's been a year, realise that the reason you are wearing a mask/visor is NOT to stop you getting it ("oh I'll be fine if I get it, I'm as strong as an ox" - errm, why have you got an exemption lanyard if you are as strong as an ox? That doesn't quite add up for me - most people wearing a lanyard are doing so for a physical health reason, not a mental health reason) you are wearing a face mask to hopefully stop you transmitting it. Hells bells.
> 
> Ggggrrrrrrrr.
> 
> I feel better now. Thanks.


You are spot on with what you said.
Where I work Morrisons this week has been manic hoardes of people in groups pushing past no respect for distance they are also getting to be disrespectful when I pointed out Covid protocols customer complained about how I dare speak to her, If I could get another job I would be out of their so sick of the public and its behaviour.
Im not sure cases will skyrocket as apparently half the population has been vaccinated or has antibodies so fingers crossed please it does not get to high.


----------



## simplysardonic

Calvine said:


> They all had their kids with them today, end of term, so about four squeezed into a self-service till space. But you are right; *twice now I've actually had someone behind me step on my heel in a queue,* you know the ones, Mr or Mrs No-time whose lives are so much busier and time so much more limited than we lesser mortals. And the masks round the chins make me want to scream. But I did see a bus driver refuse to open the bus door until some guy put a mask on.


Pro tip: I find stepping casually backwards onto their toes usually makes them move, failing that a swift but gentle kick to the shins.

Even pre covid I didn't like people encroaching my personal space & practically breathing down my neck.


----------



## Calvine

simplysardonic said:


> practically breathing down my neck.[/QUOTI
> I remember some guy doing this at a cash machine and so I turned and gave him a menacing scowl at which point he muttered something; his wife, bless her, said ''I don't blame her, I'd scowl at you as well'' which pleased me no end.


----------



## simplysardonic

People standing too close at cashpoints are the worst!


----------



## SusieRainbow

simplysardonic said:


> People standing too close at cashpoints are the worst!


Even without Covid!


----------



## Lurcherlad

I hold my trolley behind me as I queue and go through the checkout to stop the person behind me encroaching.

Even with clear stickers on the floor indicating where to stand and wait some people just won’t


----------



## Linda Weasel

simplysardonic said:


> Pro tip: I find stepping casually backwards onto their toes usually makes them move, failing that a swift but gentle kick to the shins.
> 
> Even pre covid I didn't like people encroaching my personal space & practically breathing down my neck.


I have been perfecting the stepping back in the queue thing (even pre-COVID it was SO annoying to have someone that near). Sometimes I add 'So sorry, I didn't realise you were THAT CLOSE'.
Recently I've just got blunt (rude?): 'Are you 2 metres away from me, do you think.?'


----------



## willa

Found out that my Aunt and Uncle are having a lunch party tomorrow, 18 people. As u can imagine that’s way more than 2 households
Why are people so selfish and irresponsible. They asked us and we said No we won’t come. They couldn’t understand why not WTF


----------



## kimthecat

Jesthar said:


> It's probably also accurate, to be fair. It is a major variant.


 Do we have a UK variant. I think he was referring to the SA one and deliberaetly said UK variant .


----------



## kimthecat

StormyThai said:


> When all you can do is bitch (and yes I view this as bitching) about people being asked to wear a simple cloth face coving without giving a simple valid explanation as to why you find this practice so abhorrent...I wonder what your point is too


I suppose each country has to make their own rules but I thought it was safe now not to wear masks out of doors thought if the beaches are packed its hard to distance. Im out of shielding but not been told to wear a mask out doors . perhaps we have more vaccinated people.


----------



## Arny

kimthecat said:


> Do we have a UK variant.


Yes, the one that was found in Kent.
After a bit the government did start calling it 'the variant first discovered in the uk'.


----------



## kimthecat

Arny said:


> Yes, the one that was found in Kent.
> After a bit the government did start calling it 'the variant first discovered in the uk'.


I find the whole thing confusing  I must admit I dont watch the news much.


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> I suppose each country has to make their own rules but I thought it was safe now not to wear masks out of doors thought if the beaches are packed its hard to distance. Im out of shielding but not been told to wear a mask out doors . perhaps we have more vaccinated people.


We had a packed beach last summer, no distancing and no masks but because it was warm any air particles just evaporate. There were no spikes in infections at all even though we were expecting it to. The virus just dies in hot weather.

I'm not saying its fine not to wear a mask in crowded areas nor indoors but when the hotter weather with next to no infections there will be minimal to no risk to most people


----------



## Lurcherlad

I think we have to accept that people are going to continue to flout the guidelines and even more so as the release from lockdown progresses.

Hopefully, those at risk have been vaccinated along with enough of the population to keep the virus at low levels going forward.

All we can do is protect ourselves.

I shall continue to use a mask, hand sanitiser and social distancing anywhere I may encounter other people.

I certainly won’t be going anywhere where there are hoards of people.

Can’t wait for my second jab though.


----------



## Magyarmum

It's mandatory here in Hungary to wear a mask outside at all times. I had to chuckle last Sunday when on my way home from taking the boys to the groomer, I drove past a young woman wearing a mask who was walking down a country road with not a house or other person for miles around


----------



## StormyThai

Personally I wear a mask any time I am close to people. 
I don't care if it's inside or outside. 
I don't care that the risk is lower outside...I don't care that our government has been wishy-washy with regards to mandatory mask wearing.
I don't care that some people think it's over board, abhorrent, depressing (insert relevant adjective here)...I just don't care anymore!


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Magyarmum said:


> It's mandatory here in Hungary to wear a mask outside at all times. I had to chuckle last Sunday when on my way home from taking the boys to the groomer, I drove past a young woman wearing a mask who was walking down a country road with not a house or other person for miles around


She has got so used to wearing it that she doesn't even realise she's forgot to take it off. It's the sort of daft thing I would do


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

StormyThai said:


> Personally I wear a mask any time I am close to people.
> I don't care if it's inside or outside.
> I don't care that the risk is lower outside...I don't care that our government has been wishy-washy with regards to mandatory mask wearing.
> I don't care that some people think it's over board, abhorrent, depressing (insert relevant adjective here)...I just don't care anymore!


I wear mine from the moment I leave the house and it stays on until I get back.


----------



## Magyarmum

MissMiloKitty said:


> I wear mine from the moment I leave the house and it stays on until I get back.


I'm the same although as I live in a tiny village with few neighbours and have to drive everywhere, my mask goes on before I get out of the car and only comes off when I've finished shopping and got back into the car to drive home.


----------



## MilleD

Went for a bike ride on Saturday using the rule of six. It's sooooo easy to forget social distancing when with family. Especially for those of us who have been shielding so haven't really got into the habit of it properly.

It only happened a couple of times, but it's very easy to do when you are with people who are so familiar. We did realise fairly quickly though 

God it was good though, first 30 ish miler this year.


----------



## Blackadder

I wear a mask when I have too! If I'm going into a shop it goes on just before I enter & comes off as soon as I exit, I really don't see the need to wear one in the open air 20 feet from anyone else.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Blackadder said:


> I wear a mask when I have too! If I'm going into a shop it goes on just before I enter & comes off as soon as I exit, I really don't see the need to wear one in the open air 20 feet from anyone else.


No you dont need one if you're outdoors but I just prefer to keep mine on.


----------



## Magyarmum

Hypocrites!

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...in-paris-prompts-police-inqui?t=1617777592453

*Undercover Video Of Clandestine Luxury Dinner In Paris Prompts Police Inquiry*


----------



## catz4m8z

MissMiloKitty said:


> She has got so used to wearing it that she doesn't even realise she's forgot to take it off. It's the sort of daft thing I would do


I find I forget at work sometime (probably coz Im wearing one for 12 hrs!). Then you go to take a sip of coffee and remember!LOL

Working with a colleague last night who had only just recovered from covid they caught at xmastime. They were ill enough to need resuscitation and intensive care treatment and were almost left paralysed from nerve damage. I know of someone else in their 30s who is left with heart damage and will need meds all their life from covid. Neither of those cases were even particularly ill at first, they both had mild cases of the virus at first and then it seems like the bodies response to the virus can cause severe damage afterwards.
I think thats what makes covid such a scary illness, we still dont really know the full effects it can have on someone. Is it just that its a completely new virus and thats why it causes the immune response to go so haywire or is it causing other problems? It is scary but I am equally fascinated by the research into it as well.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Today a bit of good news under the Rock.
First day when we have no active cases among the residents.
Considering that we have the highest in the world death rate per capita it is a best proof that vaccines do work!

No more masks outdoor!!!
We can have a meal with friends in the restaurant and the quiz night fundraiser for the dog rescue goes ahead.


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Today a bit of good news under the Rock.
> First day when we have no active cases among the residents.
> Considering that we have the highest in the world death rate per capita it is a best proof that vaccines do work!
> 
> No more masks outdoor!!!
> We can have a meal with friends in the restaurant and the quiz night fundraiser for the dog rescue goes ahead.


Great news

Hopefully, we won't be far behind


----------



## HarlequinCat

cheekyscrip said:


> Today a bit of good news under the Rock.
> First day when we have no active cases among the residents.
> Considering that we have the highest in the world death rate per capita it is a best proof that vaccines do work!
> 
> No more masks outdoor!!!
> We can have a meal with friends in the restaurant and the quiz night fundraiser for the dog rescue goes ahead.


That sounds blissful. Hopefully it will be like that here soon

I've forgotten what it's like to stand amongst other people and not wonder if they have germs


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

catz4m8z said:


> I find I forget at work sometime (probably coz Im wearing one for 12 hrs!). Then you go to take a sip of coffee and remember!LOL
> 
> Working with a colleague last night who had only just recovered from covid they caught at xmastime. They were ill enough to need resuscitation and intensive care treatment and were almost left paralysed from nerve damage. I know of someone else in their 30s who is left with heart damage and will need meds all their life from covid. Neither of those cases were even particularly ill at first, they both had mild cases of the virus at first and then it seems like the bodies response to the virus can cause severe damage afterwards.
> I think thats what makes covid such a scary illness, we still dont really know the full effects it can have on someone. Is it just that its a completely new virus and thats why it causes the immune response to go so haywire or is it causing other problems? It is scary but I am equally fascinated by the research into it as well.


It's what we dont know about it that's frightening


----------



## samuelsmiles3

What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.


----------



## lorilu

Kids get it. Clearly you don't. Troll away, if it makes you happy.


----------



## ForestWomble

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


No, it's not right, but then nothing we've been through in the last year is right. Surely though protecting them and thus, protecting their families is the most important thing right now?

Just letting them carry on as normal and potentially infecting each other with covid, then taking it home and worse case, making their parents ill and potentially one or both of them dying, the child or children having to deal with the loss of one, or worse, both parents is far worse than that picture, or wearing masks.


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


Oh, _you _again...  FYI, it's called 'social distancing' and it's one of the best ways of reducing viral transmission.

You know, I'm seeing an awful lot of wailing about measures being taken to ensure people remain healthy and uninfected during a global pandemic, but absolutely no suggestions from you as to alternative approaches that would both satisfy you and not increase the risk of person to person transmission.

These measures are temporary, but necessary - oh, and the lower the compliance rate, the longer we'll have to follow them (this is called 'medical science'). No, they are not fun, but we'll survive. So will the kids.


----------



## lullabydream

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


Didn't you get strong enough reaction last time you posted this, so you thought you would post it again.

Definitely not the UK.. If it is, them circles are there for something else. A picture says a thousand stories so they say...

UK school children are in bubbles. So wouldn't need to be singular.


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> UK school children are in bubbles. So wouldn't need to be singular.


It's a shame that he can't go to a school and listen to them playing at playtime in their bubbles just as it should be. The adult in the photo doesn't even have their mask on properly!


----------



## StormyThai

I walk past 3 schools on my daily walks, I'm usually walking past during their breaktime.
None of the schools look like the one pictured, all of them have children laughing, screaming and playing...none of the children looked tortured.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Children are so adaptable. My middle grandson, 10yr old, has been at school throughout this last lockdown as his mum is a key-worker. He's had a great time and not complained once.


----------



## Jobeth

SusieRainbow said:


> Children are so adaptable. My middle grandson, 10yr old, has been at school throughout this last lockdown as his mum is a key-worker. He's had a great time and not complained once.


That's good to hear. Teachers have worked incredibly hard in a difficult situation to keep everything as normal as possible.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


Is that a genuine photo? Are those circles really isolation circles? I've only seen two photos like that and they were both uploaded by you.


----------



## rona

They look like skipping circles so that they don't hit anyone with their rope.

I cannot see how this is much different or traumatizing than when I went to school and had to stand in four straight silent rows until we were called into class


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> They look like skipping circles so that they don't hit anyone with their rope.
> 
> I cannot see how this is much different or traumatizing than when I went to school and had to stand in four straight silent rows until we were called into class


Or like when I went to school and one had to kneel during morning prayers. I ended up with housemaid's knee at the age of 10.


----------



## Happy Paws2

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


I think the kids today grow up a lot quicker then we did and are aware of the need to be careful around others and at that age standing in circles would be more like a game.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> one had to kneel during morning prayers.


And kneel so someone could check if your dress touched the floor; if not, it was too short.


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> If it is, them circles are there for something else


The painted circles are so spotlessly clean, they look as though they were never walked on. (Come to think of it, the asphalt also looks too clean to have been walked on.)


----------



## Gemmaa

samuelsmiles3 said:


> What are we doing to our children? How can anyone think this is right.
> View attachment 466315


Gosh, isn't that just AWFUL for them! How on earth will they cope with a mild inconvenience!?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Indeed!

Being evacuated at 7 years old, alone, miles away from family to live with strangers (who weren’t always kind) .... having to stand in a circle briefly or wear a fabric mask really doesn’t compare


----------



## StormyThai

MissMiloKitty said:


> Is that a genuine photo? Are those circles really isolation circles? I've only seen two photos like that and they were both uploaded by you.


It is https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-parents-worried-as-schools-reopen-in-scotland-12047794
It was taken at a Scottish school when they first went back and it's a picture of the children lining up to go into class...not this abhorrent atrocity that @samuelsmiles3 would like us to believe!


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Being evacuated at 7 years old, alone, miles away from family to live with strangers (who weren't always kind) .... having to stand in a circle briefly or wear a fabric mask really doesn't compare


It doesn't: but heard from a friend that her niece is (or was?) a nursery teacher and staff were told they were not allowed to wear a mask at work ''in case the children are frightened'' - this was a few months back when the virus was rampant. She (niece) got the virus, as did her husband and both very ill with it. Nursery of course had to close, so parents (some of whom were no doubt the ones who worried about the children being frightened) consequently stuck for childcare - even working from home would be impossible with a couple of pre-school children.


----------



## Lurcherlad

If a teacher covering her face for cultural reasons doesn’t frighten the children then a teacher wearing a mask covering just the nose and mouth for health reasons, surely doesn’t either?


----------



## lullabydream

Lurcherlad said:


> If a teacher covering her face for cultural reasons doesn't frighten the children then a teacher wearing a mask covering just the nose and mouth for health reasons, surely doesn't either?


They do come up with rubbish for all sorts of things. My friends daughter has been an avid mask wearer since no one had to at the start of all this. Probably due to her autism and seeing at the time what we thought was an over reaction. School said come back to school, and no can't wear a face mask why an earth would she want to!

She's now been singled out as an example of a student who is being very responsible. Face mask and hand gel. How the tide turns.

Not one child yet has been scared of mask. Some can't wear the masks due to it causing distress or health reasons fair enough. Although, there is probably more of those children uncomfortable with elf on the shelf and the whole school do elf on the shelf!


----------



## O2.0

StormyThai said:


> I walk past 3 schools on my daily walks, I'm usually walking past during their breaktime.
> None of the schools look like the one pictured, all of them have children laughing, screaming and playing...none of the children looked tortured.


Nope, because the photo is from August 2020 at one school in Scotland, a year ago basically before we had a vaccine and we were still figuring out how to cope. 
(Link posted by Stormythai above)

@samuelsmiles3 what are you trying to accomplish with your posts on this thread? 
If there is a point you're trying to make, I'm sorry but I'm missing it. You post photos with no context, say something ominous about it, and then disappear.

Last I checked this is a discussion forum, to you know, discuss? 
I think there is a lot to be discussed when it comes to the impact this past year of covid19 has had on our children and teens. It has absolutely affected them, their schooling, their mental health, their cognitive and social development. There really is a shit ton to discuss and I for one would love to discuss it and how to help our kids cope and move forward.


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> Not one child yet has been scared of mask.


Even my cats aren't. They don't even notice them.


----------



## MollySmith

I cried when my dad wore his mask. I'm _meant_ to be a grown up but I don't imagine that's what @samuelsmiles3 meant


----------



## Cully

lorilu said:


> Even my cats aren't. They don't even notice them.


Yes I was surprised at this. In the beginning of mask wearing I was at least expecting some curiosity at my only having half a recognisable face, but nope. She didn't react at all.


----------



## Jesthar

Cully said:


> Yes I was surprised at this. In the beginning of mask wearing I was at least expecting some curiosity at my only having half a recognisable face, but nope. She didn't react at all.


Animals by and large are more body language based comminicators, though, not lower facial or verbal. Most cats, for example, are only verbal with us because they recognise we are verbal communicators - they basically treat us like two legged kittens.


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> Animals by and large are more body language based comminicators, though, not lower facial or verbal.


Dogs read faces along with body language & tone of voice, that's been studied & shown to be fact, cats maybe not but then I know nothing about them.

After reading the last few posts I decided to try a little experiment.....

I went outside, waited for a minute or two then came back & got the normal reaction.

I did the same 5 mins later but came in wearing a mask... they both went ballistic! Thor was jumping up (something he never does), he wasn't happy at all. Flo was running round barking, didn't know what to do!

I turned my back, removed the mask & within seconds they had calmed...


----------



## Magyarmum

Blackadder said:


> Dogs read faces along with body language & tone of voice, that's been studied & shown to be fact, cats maybe not but then I know nothing about them.
> 
> After reading the last few posts I decided to try a little experiment.....
> 
> I went outside, waited for a minute or two then came back & got the normal reaction.
> 
> I did the same 5 mins later but came in wearing a mask... they both went ballistic! Thor was jumping up (something he never does), he wasn't happy at all. Flo was running round barking, didn't know what to do!
> 
> I turned my back, removed the mask & within seconds they had calmed...


With @O2

I've never had any reaction from either of mine even when I first started wearing a mask, over a year ago. They never batted an eyelid when their trainer wore one, or when they visited the vet. or when people they know come to my front gate.

Maybe I should get their eyesight tested?.


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> With @O2
> 
> I've never had any reaction from either of mine even when I first started wearing a mask, over a year ago. They never batted an eyelid when their trainer wore one, or when they visited the vet. or when people they know come to my front gate.
> 
> Maybe I should get their eyesight tested?.


Doesn't bother the boxers either I often leave them in the car come out of the shop mask still on they don't seem to notice maybe I look better ?


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Doesn't bother the boxers either I often leave them in the car come out of the shop mask still on they don't seem to notice maybe I look better ?


Mine are just the same!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’m ‘fessing up here as it’s a pretty safe place. 

I’m super anxious about going back to work tomorrow. Today all restrictions have been lifted for partners attending scan appointments in my department, which worries me as it’s such a small waiting area there will not be able to be any social distancing at all. I’m sure that many clients and partners won’t mind one jot as it means they can be in scans...but yikes alive. If I was a pregnant lady I’d walk in and out again I think. Our only hope of it being okay is to get some scans back into the actual scan department, rather than with us...but that just shifts the problem somewhere else.

Flipping heck. I know we have to try to move forward but even the thought of it is giving me the heebeejeebees. The only positive is that we hopefully will get less abuse from the POV of partners not attending all scans, the downside is we will get more abuse from having to ask more people to actually wear their face mask properly/at all. 

What larks.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm 'fessing up here as it's a pretty safe place.
> 
> I'm super anxious about going back to work tomorrow. Today all restrictions have been lifted for partners attending scan appointments in my department, which worries me as it's such a small waiting area there will not be able to be any social distancing at all. I'm sure that many clients and partners won't mind one jot as it means they can be in scans...but yikes alive. If I was a pregnant lady I'd walk in and out again I think. Our only hope of it being okay is to get some scans back into the actual scan department, rather than with us...but that just shifts the problem somewhere else.
> 
> Flipping heck. I know we have to try to move forward but even the thought of it is giving me the heebeejeebees. The only positive is that we hopefully will get less abuse from the POV of partners not attending all scans, the downside is we will get more abuse from having to ask more people to actually wear their face mask properly/at all.
> 
> What larks.


Could there be an option where patients and partners wait in the car until they are phoned to come in for the scan? It's what my hospital had been doing. I have a physio appt in a couple of weeks and have instructions to wait in the car until called


----------



## Mrs Funkin

How we are set up means we can’t do that before scans, as it just takes too long to get to where we are from the car park - add pregnancy slowness to that and we would lose too many appointments  Plus we don’t have the admin staff available to respond when people call in. We have four scan rooms running concurrently, it’s a lot of scanning in a day. 

We do a lot of virtual appointments - and once women have had their scan they are generally asked to wait in the car, then the doctor calls them. It’s a lot more admin though - as we need to copy the scans and plot and copy on their individual chart, do obs and document all of that before the virtual appointment. It’s been a faff for a year...that faff will get worse now, as some doctors were seeing some ladies - but now won’t see them as partners are present. 

Oh well, we shall see  it mightn’t be as bad as I’m anticipating, fingers crossed!


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm 'fessing up here as it's a pretty safe place.
> 
> I'm super anxious about going back to work tomorrow. Today all restrictions have been lifted for partners attending scan appointments in my department, which worries me as it's such a small waiting area there will not be able to be any social distancing at all. I'm sure that many clients and partners won't mind one jot as it means they can be in scans...but yikes alive. If I was a pregnant lady I'd walk in and out again I think. Our only hope of it being okay is to get some scans back into the actual scan department, rather than with us...but that just shifts the problem somewhere else.
> 
> Flipping heck. I know we have to try to move forward but even the thought of it is giving me the heebeejeebees. The only positive is that we hopefully will get less abuse from the POV of partners not attending all scans, the downside is we will get more abuse from having to ask more people to actually wear their face mask properly/at all.
> 
> What larks.


I feel for you. It was ok with lockdown as you felt some sense of safety, but that's all changed. Not only now more susceptible to coming into contact with covid, but also, sadly, at the mercy of horrible people who think it's ok to assault and abuse those trying their best to help them, whether within the NHS or any others providing a public service, including in shops, pubs. 
Who do these morons think they are? There should be a policy of no mask, no entry. And it shouldn't be the job of nursing staff to police it. 
It seems we can't always avoid the idiots, so the best we can do is just make sure we keep ourselves as safe as possible.
Hopefully your return to work will be much less worrying once you get there and find that people are being sensible and respectful. (Did I just hear something about pigs and sky?)


----------



## Magyarmum

London last night ........ crazy!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381691672703201284


----------



## willa

Anyone else really anxious about having to get back to some sort of normality ? It’s fills me with huge anxiety


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm 'fessing up here as it's a pretty safe place.
> 
> I'm super anxious about going back to work tomorrow. Today all restrictions have been lifted for partners attending scan appointments in my department, which worries me as it's such a small waiting area there will not be able to be any social distancing at all. I'm sure that many clients and partners won't mind one jot as it means they can be in scans...but yikes alive. If I was a pregnant lady I'd walk in and out again I think. Our only hope of it being okay is to get some scans back into the actual scan department, rather than with us...but that just shifts the problem somewhere else.
> 
> Flipping heck. I know we have to try to move forward but even the thought of it is giving me the heebeejeebees. The only positive is that we hopefully will get less abuse from the POV of partners not attending all scans, the downside is we will get more abuse from having to ask more people to actually wear their face mask properly/at all.
> 
> What larks.


I'm surprised the appointments aren't scheduled to reduce the number of people in the area at any one time, for everybody's safety.

Hope you have windows you can open wide.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

We just can't do that @Lurcherlad as we have a very small waiting room for a lot of ladies!

It was kind of okay, three torrents of abuse over face masks but that's kind of standard now :/ After all, it's only been a year *rolls eyes*

Sadly the waiting room is internal and the windows we have in the office and consulting rooms are all on opening limiters...most irritating. Ah well. I've not had the dreaded lurgy yet...

Still made me anxious looking around a full waiting room though!


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> We just can't do that @Lurcherlad as we have a very small waiting room for a lot of ladies!
> 
> It was kind of okay, three torrents of abuse over face masks but that's kind of standard now :/ After all, it's only been a year *rolls eyes*
> 
> Sadly the waiting room is internal and the windows we have in the office and consulting rooms are all on opening limiters...most irritating. Ah well. I've not had the dreaded lurgy yet...
> 
> Still made me anxious looking around a full waiting room though!


I wished I had something useful to say beyond I'm so bloody sorry, you must despair of some folk becoming responsible for another human being.

I think so many are anxious, but you shouldn't be in a position where you have to speak on a Pet forum about your fears. For that I'm sorry and send you all best wishes and strength.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thanks @MollySmith  I'm fine, just frustrated at folk who after a year of this still seem unable to follow basic guidance. I don't mind having to offload here - my poor husband is sick of it and here if people don't like it, they can just scroll on by.

As for despairing of some folk being parents, oh yes. I thought of you today as I was talking to a lady with a similar history to yours (or what I know of your history). I'm sorry if my talking about work things is painful for you xx


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Thanks @MollySmith  I'm fine, just frustrated at folk who after a year of this still seem unable to follow basic guidance. I don't mind having to offload here - my poor husband is sick of it and here if people don't like it, they can just scroll on by.
> 
> As for despairing of some folk being parents, oh yes. I thought of you today as I was talking to a lady with a similar history to yours (or what I know of your history). I'm sorry if my talking about work things is painful for you xx


hugs. Not it's not, it's all about meeting in the middle and thank you for thinking of me, I feel all special now!

I'm glad you have a space to let it out, goodness knows we all need somewhere.


----------



## MollySmith

48 hour dispersal (spelling?!) order issued by police in Cambridge due to drinking on street amongst other things. Sigh.


----------



## Maurey

Someone at work tested positive for Covid. Wonderful. I’m mostly working from home, but I had to come in twice last week. I literally work for a research immunologist. Nobody in our lab wears masks unless there’s a safety inspection. How is this my life?


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> 48 hour dispersal (spelling?!) order issued by police in Cambridge due to drinking on street amongst other things. Sigh.


:Banghead:Rage


----------



## Happy Paws2

MollySmith said:


> 48 hour dispersal (spelling?!) order issued by police in Cambridge due to drinking on street amongst other things. Sigh.


Well lets face it, we knew people would do this kind of thing even if the government didn't


----------



## Cully

Maurey said:


> Nobody in our lab wears masks unless there's a safety inspection. How is this my life?


:Jawdrop:Jawdrop So covid is only likely to infect them when there is an inspection!!:Banghead


----------



## MilleD

People aren't wearing masks in my workplace. Not that i've been in yet, but had online meetings with people.


----------



## Maurey

Cully said:


> :Jawdrop:Jawdrop So covid is only likely to infect them when there is an inspection!!:Banghead


Apparently. To be somewhat fair to them, they limit interaction to be within people in our lab to the best of their ability. Many of these people are at work for 12-14 hours a day, so I can kind of understand why they're not wearing masks all day. Even so, not a good look, and I'm happy I can mostly work from home still.


----------



## rona

Had to go to a small town today to drop off death certificates, and the majority of people wearing masks were the young. Seems us oldies are safe now we've had one jab


----------



## Mum2Heidi

rona said:


> Had to go to a small town today to drop off death certificates, and the majority of people wearing masks were the young. Seems us oldies are safe now we've had one jab


I've found that. Not that I go anywhere but on my walks it's my age group that force me to distance and a neighbour I've had to ask to stand still. As fast as I step back, they follow and actually said "we've both had the jab"


----------



## ForestWomble

I feel that people need a lesson in what the jab actually does. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to tell one person in particular that the jab doesn't stop them from getting or spreading covid, they don't seem to get it.


----------



## Cully

I've found this too. Especially noticeable among the elderly residents here which is sheltered accommodation. They think jabs are a ticket to freedom and a return to normal.
It's hard to get them to understand that masks and SD will be with us for a while yet. And that the jab doesn't give immediate protection.
You can explain till you're blue in the face but they only hear what they want, and poo poo the bits they don't like.


----------



## kimthecat

This made me well up .

After not seeing his wife Mary for several months, Gordon decided to surprise her by moving into Baily House Care Home. This is their emotional reunion

 https://t.co/dcrD7HEoe7" / Twitter


----------



## rona

Just did my first home test. I may need to see a doctor at some time soon and I want to make sure I'm not contagious
20 mins until I get the result.

Are you going to take up home testing?


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> Just did my first home test. I may need to see a doctor at some time soon and I want to make sure I'm not contagious
> 20 mins until I get the result.
> 
> Are you going to take up home testing?


If they made the tests more accurate, and if I was going somewhere like the doctors or dentist - generally a place where more vulnerable people are - I would. But I wouldnt often, Im never in contact with anyone and I always wear a mask and sanitise my hand often when I am out.


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> If they made the tests more accurate, and if I was going somewhere like the doctors or dentist - generally a place where more vulnerable people are - I would. But I wouldnt often, Im never in contact with anyone and I always wear a mask and sanitise my hand often when I am out.


Generally, I'd say the same and I really don't feel the need for human contact. Unfortunately, I'm being forced into it by circumstances.

Test was negative anyway


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> I feel that people need a lesson in what the jab actually does.


When you have the injection, do they actually hand you literature giving you information as to exactly what it does? Does the person doing the vaccination tell you anything? My neighbour reckons he got nothing and was told nothing (but he's 88 years old and can't remember much at all).


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Just did my first home test. I may need to see a doctor at some time soon and I want to make sure I'm not contagious
> 20 mins until I get the result.
> 
> Are you going to take up home testing?


I already do home testing twice a week. So far it's never come back positive, but I'd definitely do another home test if it did as I'm not that confident in their accuracy.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> When you have the injection, do they actually hand you literature giving you information as to exactly what it does? Does the person doing the vaccination tell you anything? My neighbour reckons he got nothing and was told nothing (but he's 88 years old and can't remember much at all).


I was given a leaflet all about the particular vaccine that I was getting AND a card with the date on AND the doctor stood there telling me that I still need to mask up and comply to social distancing because vaccinated people can still pass the virus on...same with the flu jab, it doesn't stop you getting flu BUT it does stop you getting the worst one that could kill.

Sorry but unless other centres aren't following the procedure properly I call BS on that!


----------



## ForestWomble

Calvine said:


> When you have the injection, do they actually hand you literature giving you information as to exactly what it does? Does the person doing the vaccination tell you anything? My neighbour reckons he got nothing and was told nothing (but he's 88 years old and can't remember much at all).


Having not had it yet I have no idea.

Oh, I see @StormyThai has replied that you do.

Maybe it depends on where you go, where I live both the flu, and now covid vaccines are being done as a drive through, run by, I believe, the army. I've heard how well it is run (I'd be surprised if it wasn't) but all people have said is they get a card, nothing about info etc. Still, I'll find out at some stage.


----------



## Siskin

Had a leaflet about the vaccine I had with the first jab plus a card giving the type and batch number. The person giving the jab said various things which I can’t quite recall, but about the need to be careful still. Second jab and another card with type and batch number. Kept both. Nurse said it would be 90% effective in 3 weeks time.


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> I call BS on that!


Absolutely no idea what you mean by this. If you mean that my neighbour misled me, I did deliberately and clearly say:

''_but he's 88 years old and can't remember much at all''_


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> Absolutely no idea what you mean by this. If you mean that my neighbour misled me, I did deliberately and clearly say:
> 
> ''_but he's 88 years old and can't remember much at all''_


I just meant that what he told you wasn't right. Probably should have worded it a lot better though so I apologise because I didn't mean that he misled you.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I *may* have had a stern word with two young folk in IKEA today. They had masks on under their chins. We kept seeing them, then they were in the queue parallel to us. So I asked if they’d mind putting their masks on properly - and if they didn’t want to wear one perhaps they should consider not shopping in a busy shop like IKEA. 

Urgh. It’s only been a year I guess :/


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I *may* have had a stern word with two young folk in IKEA today. They had masks on under their chins. We kept seeing them, then they were in the queue parallel to us. So I asked if they'd mind putting their masks on properly - and if they didn't want to wear one perhaps they should consider not shopping in a busy shop like IKEA.
> 
> Urgh. It's only been a year I guess :/


What I don't get is how it's any more comfy under their chin than over their nose? Wallys.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I don't think it's even that @Boxer123 - it's just that some people don't want to be told what to do.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I don't think it's even that @Boxer123 - it's just that some people don't want to be told what to do.


That's true I feel safer in a mask and keep mine firmly on.


----------



## Blacky90

I'm in Spain and here if you leave your house you wear a mask. Does it make sense in all situations, probably not. But it is simple to follow and there is no confusion over whether a person should be wearing in such a situation or not.


----------



## Magyarmum

You have to wear a mask in Hungary by law. Shops have the right to refuse entry or kick you out for failure to do so or for not wearing them correctly. Shops can be fined or even closed down if they don't do so. Same with the busses and trains. If the police see you walking in the street not wearing a mask or wearing it incorrectly they can stop you and fine you if you refuse to comply with the law.

Seems to work because I've only very rarely seen anyone maskless except in some of the villages where it's easy to keep more than a 2 metre distance.


----------



## Siskin

There's a new button to press on the worldometer site entitled Weekly Trends. Makes for interesting reading

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table


----------



## samuelsmiles3

So, now they want to put two year old babies in masks. I have no idea where we go from here. No idea at all. Just despair.

*Whitmer official extends mask requirement to children as young as 2*

"_Expanding the mask rule to children ages 2 to 4 also requires "a good faith effort to ensure that these children wear masks while in gatherings at childcare facilities or camps," according to a press release from the Whitmer administration_."


----------



## O2.0

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, now they want to put two year old babies in masks. I have no idea where we go from here. No idea at all. Just despair.
> 
> *Whitmer official extends mask requirement to children as young as 2*
> 
> "_Expanding the mask rule to children ages 2 to 4 also requires "a good faith effort to ensure that these children wear masks while in gatherings at childcare facilities or camps," according to a press release from the Whitmer administration_."


You realize this is in Michigan US, not the UK yes?


----------



## Jesthar

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, now they want to put two year old babies in masks. I have no idea where we go from here. No idea at all. Just despair.


Oh, _do _calm down. This will not last forever. In fact, the more people people who comply with preventative measures like mask wearing and social distancing, the sooner this battle with Covid will be over and then we can be rid of all restrictions. But if you think wearing a face mask is a bigger threat than Covid, the two doctors in my family and other front line NHS staff I know would very much beg to differ.

And whilst I'd be very interested in knowing WHY you think mask wearing and other protective measures are the bigger threat, given this is the only thead you've posted on in the best part of a year (always to complain about actions and decisions taken to control a very nasty and highly infectious virus), and the last several posts have just been drive-by hand-wringing variety - well, let's just say I'm not expecting _any _response, let alone one that makes logical or scientific sense...


----------



## Lurcherlad

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, now they want to put two year old babies in masks. I have no idea where we go from here. No idea at all. Just despair.
> 
> *Whitmer official extends mask requirement to children as young as 2*
> 
> "_Expanding the mask rule to children ages 2 to 4 also requires "a good faith effort to ensure that these children wear masks while in gatherings at childcare facilities or camps," according to a press release from the Whitmer administration_."


Go away


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, now they want to put two year old babies in masks. I have no idea where we go from here. No idea at all. Just despair.
> 
> *Whitmer official extends mask requirement to children as young as 2*
> 
> "_Expanding the mask rule to children ages 2 to 4 also requires "a good faith effort to ensure that these children wear masks while in gatherings at childcare facilities or camps," according to a press release from the Whitmer administration_."


Might I suggest you read this .......

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-rising-number-children-infected-covid-19/

*Rising Number of Children Infected with Covid-19 in Hungary*

Fekete said that in the first wave last spring, only a handful of children had been admitted because of Covid-19. The second wave was somewhat "more powerful." But now "there are 2-week, 6-week, 3-month-old babies in the hospital, even though the most serious symptoms are more common in adolescents.


----------



## Calvine

COVID-19: Indian double mutation variant arrives in Britain and has 'hallmarks of very dangerous virus' | UK News | Sky News

More good news coming our way!


----------



## StormyThai

I'm sorry but @samuelsmiles3 if you continue to post inflammatory posts that do nothing but spread fear amongst those that already have valid concerns around mask wearing without actually taking part in the conversation then you are doing nothing but trolling which is against forum rules.
By all means express your actual concerns (instead of this OMERGOD think of the children) but if you continue in the same manner then I will have to take action.

I have asked several times what your actual concern is but you have ignored me and others...either join in or just scroll by


----------



## Bisbow

Calvine said:


> COVID-19: Indian double mutation variant arrives in Britain and has 'hallmarks of very dangerous virus' | UK News | Sky News
> 
> More good news coming our way!


I have said before that this virus has not done with us yet

Until Mother Nature reduces the human population to a manageable level the virus will keep evolving

That is my opinion anyway even if other people think I am crazy


----------



## SbanR

StormyThai said:


> I'm sorry but @samuelsmiles3 if you continue to post inflammatory posts that do nothing but spread fear amongst those that already have valid concerns around mask wearing without actually taking part in the conversation then you are doing nothing but trolling which is against forum rules.
> By all means express your actual concerns (instead of this OMERGOD think of the children) but if you continue in the same manner then I will have to take action.
> 
> I have asked several times what your actual concern is but you have ignored me and others...either join in or just scroll by


Can you not just ban him? Please?????


----------



## Blacky90

Please don't ban him. He is trying to save all the children from death by mask or just doesn't like his family so the less protection the better


----------



## MollySmith

We had an engineer from Virgin here today. Young chap in his twenties and I thought he’d be regaling me with going to the pub but he was genuinely worried. He said he has enough risk in his job and how people call um engineers to move a tv a few feet and lie about Covid symptoms because they want their services fixed. I felt so sorry for him. He said we were rare in having windows open, hand sanitizer if he wanted it and masks on. As he said, it’s been a year, you’d think folk would know.


----------



## samuelsmiles3

So, this is where we are in 2021. An old lady, sitting alone in a mask when she most needed her loved ones nearby for comfort and support. God help us all.


----------



## Magyarmum

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, this is where we are in 2021. An old lady, sitting alone in a mask when she most needed her loved ones nearby for comfort and support. God help us all.
> View attachment 466825


What's the point you're trying to make? I have no idea what these cryptic messages you keep posting are meant to mean. As you never bother to explain yourself you're not much better than a troll.


----------



## Siskin

It’s better then giving her covid


----------



## Arny

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, this is where we are in 2021. An old lady, sitting alone in a mask when she most needed her loved ones nearby for comfort and support. God help us all.
> View attachment 466825


I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong but I do think she wanted to do what many others have had to do privately.
My grandpa died at the end of last year and when we went into the crematorium all chairs were spaced out so none of us sat together despite whoever came from the same household.


----------



## rona

Has anyone tried to buy sunglasses?

Any idea how that can happen, because you have to try them on?


----------



## Linda Weasel

The Queen, as always, would do what she feels is right, and set an example. I’m sure it was her choice to be alone.

On another note, I have my 2nd Covid vac next week. Yay!!
Never thought I’d be this desperate to have a needle stuck in my arm.


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> Has anyone tried to buy sunglasses?
> 
> Any idea how that can happen, because you have to try them on?


I think anything you try on would have to be put aside and cleaned before going back on display again


Linda Weasel said:


> Never thought I'd be this desperate to have a needle stuck in my arm.


:Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong but I do think she wanted to do what many others have had to do privately.
> My grandpa died at the end of last year and when we went into the crematorium all chairs were spaced out so none of us sat together despite whoever came from the same household.


She did look very small and vulnerable; but thousands died (in addition to the normal death rate) and in each case the funeral would be held with covid restrictions in place. My friend's husband died last year and they could not have a funeral for five or six weeks. I'm sure she is sufficiently down to earth to know that she could not be seen to take advantage of her position.


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> I think anything you try on would have to be put aside and cleaned before going back on display again
> 
> :Hilarious


That's what I thought but how are they going to police that I wonder?

I just wondered if there are sunglasses in stores or if they have been taken out


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> That's what I thought but how are they going to police that I wonder?
> 
> I just wondered if there are sunglasses in stores or if they have been taken out


Go into a store and ask them how they do it?

Last year, after first lockdown I had to have new prescription glasses. I indicated which frame I wanted to try on. It was handed to me and , if rejected, I had to place it into a container for cleaning.
With non prescription sunglasses they might be out on open display but the store might/should operate a similar system.
Best to ask the staff


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> Go into a store and ask them how they do it?


Eeek.............going into a store!!!..................................................:Woot


----------



## StormyThai

rona said:


> Eeek.............going into a store!!!..................................................:Woot


You can always phone them first to ask what their protocol is, I'm sure they won't mind 
That way you can decide if it's a risk worth taking before you go


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I just wondered if there are sunglasses in stores or if they have been taken out


@SbanR:

I got new driving glasses from Boots last year and tried on quite a few pairs. I handed them over at the desk, but was not asked to do, and I could just as easily have put them back on the display - no-one appeared to be watching me.


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> @SbanR:
> 
> I got new driving glasses from Boots last year and tried on quite a few pairs. I handed them over at the desk, but was not asked to do, and I could just as easily have put them back on the display - no-one appeared to be watching me.


huh, when I got glasses last year I had a staff member follow me around with a little box to put the discarded frames in for cleaning later. I felt like royalty with my own personal servant!:Hilarious


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> huh, when I got glasses last year I had a staff member follow me around with a little box to put the discarded frames in for cleaning later. I felt like royalty with my own personal servant!:Hilarious


Haha yes. I had the optometrist on my right and receptionist on my left


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been keeping an eye on infection rates in my area from the government website and also the area in Suffolk where we have the static (east Suffolk). I’ve noticed in the past week or so that the new infection rates are slowly rising, not to worrying levels, but definitely rising more so in east Suffolk rather then at home. The overall rate is well below average. I’m just hoping it’s due to more testing being done and infection getting picked up.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I've been keeping an eye on infection rates in my area from the government website and also the area in Suffolk where we have the static (east Suffolk). I've noticed in the past week or so that the new infection rates are slowly rising, not to worrying levels, but definitely rising more so in east Suffolk rather then at home. The overall rate is well below average. I'm just hoping it's due to more testing being done and infection getting picked up.


Ours had a little blip last week, but it seems to be settling again now


----------



## HarlequinCat

I think it could be partly to do with increased testing. They could be doing more because of the Indian strain


----------



## Happy Paws2

samuelsmiles3 said:


> So, this is where we are in 2021. An old lady, sitting alone in a mask when she most needed her loved ones nearby for comfort and support. God help us all.
> View attachment 466825





Magyarmum said:


> What's the point you're trying to make? I have no idea what these cryptic messages you keep posting are meant to mean. As you never bother to explain yourself you're not much better than a troll.


Just seen these... I don't see your point Magyarmum,I thought the picture spoke for it's self, nothing cryptic about it.


----------



## StormyThai

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just seen these... I don't see your point Magyarmum,I thought the picture spoke for it's self, nothing cryptic about it.


It wasn't the picture that was being commented on...rather the trolling behaviour of the person posting the picture.
All been dealt with now


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just seen these... I don't see your point Magyarmum,I thought the picture spoke for it's self, nothing cryptic about it.


Taken in isolation I'd agree with you, but having seen it in the context of other posts from the OP, IMO the message he's trying to convey is cryptic.


----------



## Happy Paws2

StormyThai said:


> It wasn't the picture that was being commented on...rather the trolling behaviour of the person posting the picture.
> All been dealt with now





Magyarmum said:


> Taken in isolation I'd agree with you, but having seen it in the context of other posts from the OP, IMO the message he's trying to convey is cryptic.


Sorry, I was just flicking though and could understand what the fuss was with the picture was.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Sorry, I was just flicking though and could understand what the fuss was with the picture was.


That's OK, I've done the same thing myself.


----------



## catz4m8z

We def seemed to have turned a corner in the UK but I keep looking at the news globally and its still quite horrifying out there. The situation in India is just awful. Its a cautionary tale to all those people who are still denying covid or who think that we should of just ignored lockdowns and carried on as normal. The poor people there were def let down by their government during their second wave....no point trying to save your economy if you cant save your population first.

(friend was telling me that she recently met a patient who didnt believe in covid....despite being in hospital with it and would die if they took their oxygen mask off! I mean....:Wideyed cant really argue with that can you!?:Banghead)


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> We def seemed to have turned a corner in the UK but I keep looking at the news globally and its still quite horrifying out there. The situation in India is just awful. Its a cautionary tale to all those people who are still denying covid or who think that we should of just ignored lockdowns and carried on as normal. The poor people there were def let down by their government during their second wave....no point trying to save your economy if you cant save your population first.
> 
> (friend was telling me that she recently met a patient who didnt believe in covid....despite being in hospital with it and would die if they took their oxygen mask off! I mean....:Wideyed cant really argue with that can you!?:Banghead)


What on earth did they think was wrong with them if they thought it couldn't possibly be covid. Weirdo


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> a cautionary tale to all those people who are still denying covid


Betcher life they will continue to deny it and protest about masks, vaccinations, passports and lockdowns (then expect to get voted in as London mayor). You can't fix stupid and that's a fact.


----------



## Calvine

Schoolgirl sues Sheffield school trust over mask-wearing - BBC News

Obviously put up to it by parents hoping for a Daily Mail ''sad face'' photoshoot and their ten minutes of fame? And she's exempt anyway!


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> What on earth did they think was wrong with them if they thought it couldn't possibly be covid. Weirdo


Apparently they died after refusing further treatment because the Drs were wrong. Ironically the treatment for any kind of viral pneumonia/respiratory issue would be pretty much exactly the same as it is for covid anyways....I suppose you just cant help some people.

I think all of my elderly relatives have now had their second jab so hopefully all covered, although my father is still upset that his breathing isnt back to normal 3mths after having the virus. Dont really know what to tell him, I mean it could just take time or he could have permanent damage. This illness just has such a wide range of effects.
I do think though that 'covid lung' is going to be something that hospitals see going forward. Alot of people have been left with lung damage sadly that will impact on their future lives.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> Apparently they died after refusing further treatment because the Drs were wrong. Ironically the treatment for any kind of viral pneumonia/respiratory issue would be pretty much exactly the same as it is for covid anyways....I suppose you just cant help some people.
> 
> I think all of my elderly relatives have now had their second jab so hopefully all covered, although my father is still upset that his breathing isnt back to normal 3mths after having the virus. Dont really know what to tell him, I mean it could just take time or he could have permanent damage. This illness just has such a wide range of effects.
> I do think though that 'covid lung' is going to be something that hospitals see going forward. Alot of people have been left with lung damage sadly that will impact on their future lives.


It's a concern for me should I get covid as the cancer I had if it has spread, heads straight for the lungs


----------



## kittih

catz4m8z said:


> Apparently they died after refusing further treatment because the Drs were wrong. Ironically the treatment for any kind of viral pneumonia/respiratory issue would be pretty much exactly the same as it is for covid anyways....I suppose you just cant help some people.
> 
> I think all of my elderly relatives have now had their second jab so hopefully all covered, although my father is still upset that his breathing isnt back to normal 3mths after having the virus. Dont really know what to tell him, I mean it could just take time or he could have permanent damage. This illness just has such a wide range of effects.
> I do think though that 'covid lung' is going to be something that hospitals see going forward. Alot of people have been left with lung damage sadly that will impact on their future lives.


I have just watched this Royal Society discussion on Long Covid which you and/or your father might find interesting. I am sorry to hear he is still suffering the effects.


----------



## catz4m8z

kittih said:


> I have just watched this Royal Society discussion on Long Covid which you and/or your father might find interesting. I am sorry to hear he is still suffering the effects.


Thanks it is very interesting and I think research into this virus and its after effects is going to keep scientists busy for quite some time.
(Im not too worried about my father...he's a 78 yr old man who is just frustrated that he cant cycle up steep hills as quickly or without getting short of breath. Even with after effects he's fitter then I am!LOL:Hilarious).


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’m worrying about how it’s all going to be. Quite frankly it’s already bad enough with folk not following guidance - but come June 21st, I’m actually worried about work. Has anyone else who is a hospital worker had any guidance yet about what they’ll expect to still be wearing/what patients and visitors will be wearing? I’m outpatients (antenatal clinic) but we have upwards of 100 people through our waiting room each day and it’s very small. I don’t think I’m ready to let go of PPE - and I’m worried we are going to be told we have to - I don’t just mean my wearing it, I mean all the women and partners. I know, I’ve had both jabs but I’m still nervous. I feel at the moment like I’ll never be happy to go to a pub, or go dancing again.


----------



## Siskin

It will be interesting to see what happens from the music gig in Liverpool over the weekend. Numbers were limited and only those that had a negative test were allowed in and they have to do another test during the week. The building was well ventilated. Nevertheless there was no mask wearing or social distancing required, so if the virus was about it will spread easily. I guess most of those attending the event will not have been vaccinated yet.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm worrying about how it's all going to be. Quite frankly it's already bad enough with folk not following guidance - but come June 21st, I'm actually worried about work. Has anyone else who is a hospital worker had any guidance yet about what they'll expect to still be wearing/what patients and visitors will be wearing? I'm outpatients (antenatal clinic) but we have upwards of 100 people through our waiting room each day and it's very small. I don't think I'm ready to let go of PPE - and I'm worried we are going to be told we have to - I don't just mean my wearing it, I mean all the women and partners. I know, I've had both jabs but I'm still nervous. I feel at the moment like I'll never be happy to go to a pub, or go dancing again.


I work in schools and normally catch a cold or sore throat. This year nothing I'm assuming due to PPE and social distancing. I can only imagine the bugs and germs you come into contact with in hospitals. I would be more than happy to keep wearing my mask in certain places such as the doctors, hospitals ect. I don't even think about it anymore. I had an appointment with the nurse wore my mask the whole time no issue.


----------



## catz4m8z

I feel like masks in a medical setting will probably last for quite a while, even with things better.
But then again at some point we have to go back to normal and trust the vaccinations to do their job. Im expecting a third wave but much less severe after which covid will hopefully be something like the flu where you have yearly vaccs and take sensible hygiene precautions.


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> something like the flu where you have yearly vaccs


So would that mean two vaccinations a year for people who would normally have the flu vax?


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> So would that mean two vaccinations a year for people who would normally have the flu vax?


Maybe they can work it so that we can have the flu jab and covid jab at the same time. I'm sure that would suit a lot of people. I don't think we will need to have more than one covid booster a year.
At the moment they are still trying to find out how long the covid jab protects us for once we've had the 2nd one.


----------



## Gemmaa

I think masks in medical settings should be a thing forever. Even before CV19 it was always awful going into a pharmacy/doctors waiting room and someone had a really horrific sounding cough, or could barely speak from a sore throat, but they'd sit really close or lurk right behind in the queue, breathing all over your neck epressed

Actually, it's bothered me for years & I'm probably really overthinking it all, but the pen in the pharmacy doesn't get wiped, the doors to the doctors aren't automatic, there's never been hand gel in our doctors...and even today, the local hospital had empty hand gel dispensers, and there was a big blood drip on one of the doors. I assume it was from someone coming out of the Warfarin clinic..but ewww!

Might get a hazmat suit in June :Bag


----------



## HarlequinCat

Gemmaa said:


> I think masks in medical settings should be a thing forever. Even before CV19 it was always awful going into a pharmacy/doctors waiting room and someone had a really horrific sounding cough, or could barely speak from a sore throat, but they'd sit really close or lurk right behind in the queue, breathing all over your neck epressed
> 
> Actually, it's bothered me for years & I'm probably really overthinking it all, but the pen in the pharmacy doesn't get wiped, the doors to the doctors aren't automatic, there's never been hand gel in our doctors...and even today, the local hospital had empty hand gel dispensers, and there was a big blood drip on one of the doors. I assume it was from someone coming out of the Warfarin clinic..but ewww!
> 
> Might get a hazmat suit in June :Bag


It could be that most people, going forward, will wear masks when they are unwell with the cold or flu etc. Like they do in China or Japan I think, it seems like a polite thing to do!

I used to hate being on a bus or in a queue with someone right behind me coughing or sneezing too


----------



## Lurcherlad

I agree that it should remain a requirement to wear a mask in medical settings going forward. At least allow medics to protect themselves if they choose.

Given there has been a marked drop in the normal cold and flu bugs whilst we’ve all been wearing masks, it makes sense to carry on doing so in supermarkets, on public transport, medical settings, etc.

I shall continue to, as well as keep a handy tube of hand gel in my pocket.


----------



## rona

Ooo, a snotty nose in a mask...........lovely :Vomit

This world going forward, hopefully will be one I feel more comfortable in. I've never understood the need of humans to get close or feel the need to spread their germs to others. A doctors surgery or hospital waiting room makes me cringe.
Social distancing with strangers and masks in crowded indoor setting would be my ideal


----------



## kittih

Vaccination totals ( first and second doses per country). This makes interesting reading. Some countries I thought would be further ahead like Japan and Australia are not...

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vacci...a&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1


----------



## Maurey

kittih said:


> Vaccination totals ( first and second doses per country). This makes interesting reading. Some countries I thought would be further ahead like Japan and Australia are not...
> 
> https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vacci...a&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1


According to my Aussie friends, as per usual, it's an issue with supply. Plus, it's not as huge a priority over there as it is in other countries due to their numbers being nearly non-existent.


----------



## HarlequinCat

rona said:


> Ooo, a snotty nose in a mask...........lovely :Vomit
> 
> This world going forward, hopefully will be one I feel more comfortable in. I've never understood the need of humans to get close or feel the need to spread their germs to others. A doctors surgery or hospital waiting room makes me cringe.
> Social distancing with strangers and masks in crowded indoor setting would be my ideal


Yes, that would be gross..... and sneezing :Grumpy


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Ooo, a snotty nose in a mask...........lovely :Vomit
> 
> This world going forward, hopefully will be one I feel more comfortable in. I've never understood the need of humans to get close or feel the need to spread their germs to others. A doctors surgery or hospital waiting room makes me cringe.
> Social distancing with strangers and masks in crowded indoor setting would be my ideal


Although, even after a year of following SD routines, I still had to tell the woman behind me at Aldi this morning to back off and respect the 2m rule!


----------



## Lurcherlad

HarlequinCat said:


> Yes, that would be gross..... and sneezing :Grumpy


Remember Neil with a cold on The Young Ones?!

:Yuck


----------



## rona

I don't know if I've got this wrong but as our GP's are now on the over 30s, our larger centers are taking anyone under 49!

That's any adult


----------



## SusieRainbow

I think mask wearing will be seen for some time to come in public.My OH and Icaught the Eurostar to Southern France in 2019 and nearly all the Oriental race people wore masks in the stations and on the trains,aparrently they are worn everywhere in China and Malaysia by the majority. I could live with that.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> I think mask wearing will be seen for some time to come in public.My OH and Icaught the Eurostar to Southern France in 2019 and nearly all the Oriental race people wore masks in the stations and on the trains,aparrently they are worn everywhere in China and Malaysia by the majority. I could live with that.


OH and I were talking about that the other day and both of us agreed that we shall still be wearing our for the for see able future.


----------



## Blackadder

I shall be ditching masks at the 1st opportunity, hopefully 21st June if the Gov keeps it's word!


----------



## kittih

Maurey said:


> According to my Aussie friends, as per usual, it's an issue with supply. Plus, it's not as huge a priority over there as it is in other countries due to their numbers being nearly non-existent.


Thanks. It's good to have local insight. Though I think they should be prioritising vaccination if there is opportunity to do so dispute current low numbers. It only takes a few covid positive spreaders which they don't catch in time outside quarantine to infect the population at large. I hope they get good vaccine supplies soon.


----------



## kimthecat

I think I will carry on wearing a mask in shops etc for some time.

Its good to be able to move forward and concentrate on the future. I found I was spending too much time looking back at past events which was rather depressing .


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> found I was spending too much time looking back at past events which was rather depressing .


Oh, I've been doing so much of that! Reliving scary experiences from my teens and twenties, so vivid and frightening. Worrying about people I may have offended, mistakes I might have made, it's been horrible.
I'm so ready to move on and have events to look forward to. OH is muttering about retiring, he's 65 next week so another year but he's planning on working less hours in the near future.


----------



## Cully

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh, I've been doing so much of that! Reliving scary experiences from my teens and twenties, so vivid and frightening. Worrying about people I may have offended, mistakes I might have made, it's been horrible.
> I'm so ready to move on and have events to look forward to. OH is muttering about retiring, he's 65 next week so another year but he's planning on working less hours in the near future.


Planning what you're going to do in your retirement is very positive.
My friend who retired 2 years ago says if she'd known retirement was so much fun she'd have done it years ago .


----------



## rona

Cully said:


> Planning what you're going to do in your retirement is very positive.
> My friend who retired 2 years ago says if she'd known retirement was so much fun she'd have done it years ago .


You don't have to fully retire all at once. When I was made redundant at 53, I decided to semi retire. I started a small dog walking business that just ticked me over financially. Mind, you do have to cut the cloth a bit. However, I've spent many many happy hours, that I wouldn't have had, with my dogs, chasing butterflies, out with the camera and swimming, also so much more relaxed and at peace with the world.
Now, ten years later, I'm ready to fully retire 

Life is so precious. Something we all should have learnt over the last 18 months. You can't get time back


----------



## rona

Just had my water bill!

We used a third more water during lockdown. Just when a lot of people are struggling.their bills are going up so much.................


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Everyone keeps talking about how much money they’ve saved in lockdown. Not us though, as I’ve still been going to work the same, husband WFH anyway. We don’t go on holidays due to Oscar, so all that’s happened is that our food bills have gone up, petrol prices are flying up again and Oscar’s medication bills have increased too. I can’t believe how much more expensive food seems to be now. Things like my six weekly chiropractor visit stopped and I never started it again and we’ve obviously barely been out - but I still have less money.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Everyone keeps talking about how much money they've saved in lockdown. Not us though, as I've still been going to work the same, husband WFH anyway. We don't go on holidays due to Oscar, so all that's happened is that our food bills have gone up, petrol prices are flying up again and Oscar's medication bills have increased too. I can't believe how much more expensive food seems to be now. Things like my six weekly chiropractor visit stopped and I never started it again and we've obviously barely been out - but I still have less money.


Your not the only one @Mrs Funkin i spend a lot on food. First lockdown I used less petrol but then was back at work.


----------



## Gemmaa

My OH works for a water company, he said they've lost millions because of lockdown, and the increase in water usage/people without water meters. To make up for it, no one gets a pay rise this year, but they kindly aren't making anyone redundant...much better than fixing their burst pipes quickly


----------



## Lurcherlad

We’ve saved on fuel and train fares, but spent much more on food (keeping bigger stocks in the larder too, just in case), electricity to run all the computer devices required for 2 full time workers at home, plus the boiler broke so we’ve been heating the house with electric heaters until the plumber can get here to fix it, which usually works out more expensive than gas.

Internet shopping (plus delivery charges) went crazy for a while too.

Spent a fortune on takeaways, coffee, sandwiches and cakes to keep the local restaurants and cafes in business too!


----------



## rona

Gemmaa said:


> My OH works for a water company, he said they've lost millions because of lockdown, and the increase in water usage/people without water meters. To make up for it, no one gets a pay rise this year, but they kindly aren't making anyone redundant...much better than fixing their burst pipes quickly


I saw a water leak that went on for nearly a year. A huge leak. I'd hoped that the locals had reported it, but no, every time I went, it was still gushing and even started to destroy the road that it was flooding down
. Tried to get hold of the relevant water company, but could find no way of reporting a leak. I don't know if they were just ignoring the leak because it wasn't visible to many.
Anyway, I ended up reporting it to the next door water company, as they had a dedicated report page. 3 weeks later, the leak had gone. 
There must have been millions of gallons disappearing down a ditch!


----------



## StormyThai

rona said:


> I saw a water leak that went on for nearly a year. A huge leak. I'd hoped that the locals had reported it, but no, every time I went, it was still gushing and even started to destroy the road that it was flooding down


We had one here that gushed out water for well over a year...it was reported so much that they came along and put a "We are aware of the leak" sign next to the gushing water but still didn't fix it for another 6 months, and then didn't fix it properly so had to come back after it had been leaking again for another 6 months.
One of the new build estates which had to have new under ground pipes put in under a crop field poured out water from the day it was put down, at one point they just covered it over and left it leaking so huge puddles appeared and you could see a stream of water running across the crop field...that was finally sorted about a week ago.

That gallons of water wasted on just those two leaks


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I saw a water leak that went on for nearly a year. A huge leak. I'd hoped that the locals had reported it, but no, every time I went, it was still gushing and even started to destroy the road that it was flooding down
> . Tried to get hold of the relevant water company, but could find no way of reporting a leak. I don't know if they were just ignoring the leak because it wasn't visible to many.
> Anyway, I ended up reporting it to the next door water company, as they had a dedicated report page. 3 weeks later, the leak had gone.
> There must have been millions of gallons disappearing down a ditch!


Out for a walk yesterday through the village and came a cross a team of chaps with the listening devices wandering about on the road. Asked what they were looking for and they told me that there was a minor underground water leak they were trying to pinpoint. I suggested they look over the wall into the field below (land drops sharply away on that side of the road) to see if it was soggy and lo and behold they found the wet ground and were able to hear the leak. I had thought they knew there was a leak due to reduction in water pressure as there is nothing visible on the road. There has been a lot of complaints over recent years about water going off due to leaks and bursts, I think this may be a bit of damage limitation or it could be something to do with the road itself. For years the road has been trying very hard to fall into the valley. We always thought it was natural slippage and poor road construction and maintenance, however it's distinctly possible that this pipe has been leaking for years and has leached away the soil beneath the road causing its collapse. The road was repaired a few weeks ago and I'm now thinking that perhaps the council repair people discovered the leak and reported it which is why something is getting done right away instead of years later.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Out for a walk yesterday through the village and came a cross a team of chaps with the listening devices wandering about on the road.


OMG. Reminds me when they sent out a very old man to trace my supposed leak with one of those poles. I'm sorry, I'm not ageist but to put all your older people on tracing leaks (which is what they used to do) with all their deaf ears seemed ludicrous


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> OMG. Reminds me when they sent out a very old man to trace my supposed leak with one of those poles. I'm sorry, I'm not ageist but to put all your older people on tracing leaks (which is what they used to do) with all their deaf ears seemed ludicrous


I can devine water


----------



## Jesthar

rona said:


> OMG. Reminds me when they sent out a very old man to trace my supposed leak with one of those poles. I'm sorry, I'm not ageist but to put all your older people on tracing leaks (which is what they used to do) with all their deaf ears seemed ludicrous


Believe it or not those listening sticks are still one of the best ways of tracing underground leaks, especially in the hands of an experienced user. Sometimes modern technology can't beat the traditional methods.


----------



## rona

Jesthar said:


> Believe it or not those listening sticks are still one of the best ways of tracing underground leaks, especially in the hands of an experienced user. Sometimes modern technology can't beat the traditional methods.


It wasn't the sticks that bothered me but the hearing of the users. I've noticed that it's now not the domain of the about to retire any more. I've seen much younger people using them 
Maybe someone else realised that most older people lose some hearing


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> It wasn't the sticks that bothered me but the hearing of the users. I've noticed that it's now not the domain of the about to retire any more. I've seen much younger people using them
> Maybe someone else realised that most older people lose some hearing


Even as a child my younger son was extremely good at water divining. He was asked on several occasions to find suitable places to drill a borehole or dig a well.

Dowsing doesn't depend on one's hearing but on the movement and vibration of the rods


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> Dowsing doesn't depend on one's hearing but on the movement and vibration of the rods


It's not dowsing. Have you not seen them put those hearing poles to the ground and listen for leaks?

They just look like a stick with an ear piece on the end 

I think they have ear phones these days and ways of enhancing the sounds


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> It's not dowsing. Have you not seen them put those hearing poles to the ground and listen for leaks?
> 
> They just look like a stick with an ear piece on the end
> 
> I think they have ear phones these days and ways of enhancing the sounds


No I've never seen them.

The water company round here is pretty efficient when it comes to repairing leaks. On Boxing Day 3 years ago I had a burst outside pipe which was pouring water all over the road. A neighbour phoned the company and within an hour they came out and repaired it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Gemmaa said:


> My OH works for a water company, he said they've lost millions because of lockdown, and the increase in water usage/people without water meters. To make up for it, no one gets a pay rise this year, but they kindly aren't making anyone redundant...much better than fixing their burst pipes quickly


We had a leak at the back garden two years ago, we could heard water running every time we went into the bathroom, we reported it to them and it took them over three months to sort it out, the water that was lost during that time was criminal.


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> No I've never seen them.


This is what they look like 












rona said:


> It wasn't the sticks that bothered me but the hearing of the users. I've noticed that it's now not the domain of the about to retire any more. I've seen much younger people using them
> Maybe someone else realised that most older people lose some hearing


Maybe we also do hearing tests for people doing these kind of jobs. Same as we do taste and smell tests for those charged with checking water quality... 

You'll have seen younger people using them because they are standard kit for field teams. There are electronic versions around these days, but they are ten times the price and don't usually offer any advantage in most situation.


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> This is what they look like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we also do hearing tests for people doing these kind of jobs. Same as we do taste and smell tests for those charged with checking water quality...
> 
> You'll have seen younger people using them because they are standard kit for field teams. There are electronic versions around these days, but they are ten times the price and don't usually offer any advantage in most situation.


The men that I saw were all fairly young, two had the listening poles and one had the electronic version. I suppose I could have nipped back with the diving rods to make the full house.
I noticed on Friday that they have painted blue lines indicating where the leak is.


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> We had a leak at the back garden two years ago, we could heard water running every time we went into the bathroom, we reported it to them and it took them over three months to sort it out, the water that was lost during that time was criminal.


I had a leak last over 8 years, got fixed last week. I dread to think how much water got wasted.


----------



## Magyarmum

ForestWomble said:


> I had a leak last over 8 years, got fixed last week. I dread to think how much water got wasted.


When I had a leak from the mains pipe on my property, i had to pay for the water that had been wasted. When they finish the repair they read the metre and send you the bill which if I remember rightly was about £200 which I was allowed to pay over 6 months.


----------



## rona

So, everything is opening up next week!
Pfft, it may be for everyone else but I'm going to give it much more time.

Look at Bolton!


----------



## kittih

rona said:


> So, everything is opening up next week!
> Pfft, it may be for everyone else but I'm going to give it much more time.
> 
> Look at Bolton!


I agree. I am still being very cautious at least until 3 weeks after I have received my 2nd vaccination. I am not going to even consider going " back to normal" until a good few weeks after all adult age groups have been vaccinated. I don't want to put friends and family at risk.


----------



## Boxer123

No deaths in England yesterday a positive sign.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> No deaths in England yesterday a positive sign.


That's an amazing statistic after such a high death rate for so long isn't it. From what I've read the 4 deaths that were recorded yesterday were all in Wales


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> That's an amazing statistic after such a high death rate for so long isn't it. From what I've read the 4 deaths that were recorded yesterday were all in Wales


The were the rest of the UK no deaths. Hopefully we are in the right path.


----------



## rona

I don't really take much notice of weekend figures, and Tuesdays is always full of weekend catch up.
Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are the figures I wait for each week and to be honest, they haven't changed much for about three weeks


----------



## Magyarmum

Yay! Only 426 new cases and 38 deaths in Hungary! 

Admittedly being a Monday the actual figures are probably slightly higher. But at least we're getting nearer to lockdown being relaxed and life becoming more like normal!


----------



## Maurey

Magyarmum said:


> Yay! Only 426 new cases and 38 deaths in Hungary!
> 
> Admittedly being a Monday the actual figures are probably slightly higher. But at least we're getting nearer to lockdown being relaxed and life becoming more like normal!


That's lovely to hear, though kinda depressing, in retrospect - we've had more new cases in my region of the country (nearing 700) than in the entirety of the country over there. We have 2 million less people, and our numbers have been slowly on the rise again :Banghead Really wish people didn't dismiss vaccinating because the government recommended it, and of course nothing the government here recommends can be good


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Flipping heck. I KNEW this world happen. Husband's auntie came round today, invited herself in...I asked her how many other people she'd been to see before she came to us. She didn't respond.

I am disproportionately anxious about restrictions easing. I know I am. I felt a bit better after Friday at work when I was (sort of) reassured that masks would be staying in hospital for a while yet. However, Auntie just bowling round without even letting us know she was coming has stressed me so much. It's partly because I know she has been so shocking at following the guidance.

Anyway, if people are feeling anxious, like me, there's a few websites addressing the issue:

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/coronavirus/looking-after-your-mental-health-we-come-out-lockdown

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/coronavirus/managing-feelings-about-lockdown-easing/

This is my "favourite" thing from the first website: "*Pace yourself* - recognising that you need to go at the right pace for you is important. Don't let others bully or pressure you into doing things you don't want to - but try not to let that be an excuse not to push yourself, especially when it comes to reconnecting with friends safely, outside your home, when rules allow and the time is also right for you. It can be hard to let others move forward without you - maybe your child wants to see friends or needs to return to work, but you can't. It's important to discuss concerns with those close to you, but also to allow other people space to move at their own pace."

I'm not this kind of person normally. I was actually quite blasé about Covid when it all first started. I think seeing all the bodies being wheeled past my department each day affected me more than I suspected.


----------



## Maurey

Mrs Funkin said:


> Flipping heck. I KNEW this world happen. Husband's auntie came round today, invited herself in...I asked her how many other people she'd been to see before she came to us. She didn't respond.
> 
> I am disproportionately anxious about restrictions easing. I know I am. I felt a bit better after Friday at work when I was (sort of) reassured that masks would be staying in hospital for a while yet. However, Auntie just bowling round without even letting us know she was coming has stressed me so much. It's partly because I know she has been so shocking at following the guidance.
> 
> Anyway, if people are feeling anxious, like me, there's a few websites addressing the issue:
> 
> https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/coronavirus/looking-after-your-mental-health-we-come-out-lockdown
> 
> https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/coronavirus/managing-feelings-about-lockdown-easing/
> 
> This is my "favourite" thing from the first website: "*Pace yourself* - recognising that you need to go at the right pace for you is important. Don't let others bully or pressure you into doing things you don't want to - but try not to let that be an excuse not to push yourself, especially when it comes to reconnecting with friends safely, outside your home, when rules allow and the time is also right for you. It can be hard to let others move forward without you - maybe your child wants to see friends or needs to return to work, but you can't. It's important to discuss concerns with those close to you, but also to allow other people space to move at their own pace."
> 
> I'm not this kind of person normally. I was actually quite blasé about Covid when it all first started. I think seeing all the bodies being wheeled past my department each day affected me more than I suspected.


Take care of yourself! It's totally understandable that you're anxious, considering the situation. As the resources you linked say, you don't have to be okay with it, just because she thinks it's fine,


----------



## Siskin

We invited the wardens of our static site in for a coffee, would have been outside out of preference but it’s gone really cold here after being lovely and warm yesterday when we arrived. They have had both jabs are tested twice weekly and are cautious anyway due to health issues. We socially distanced though and left a door open


----------



## ForestWomble

Thank you for those links @Mrs Funkin


----------



## rona

Out of the last week, 4 days did not have any cases at all in my county


----------



## lorilu

My state, and my community, are completely open including not requiring mask use. Some stores may still be requiring face masks. I am happy to oblige, probably will continue to wear one in any store, required or not, even though I am vaccinated.

We are still required to wear them at work. Again, it doesn't bother me. I am mostly tired of taking my temperature twice a day and recording it. I'll be glad to see the back of that.


----------



## Siskin

The amount of infections for covid in the U.K. has gone up substantially over the last week, today’s was 4182. Death rate remains low. The infection rate was steadily getting lower and lower and had got below 2000 several times. I guess the Indian variant is responsible. I had heard it was tending to effect those not vaccinated, but I don’t know if that remains the case. Bit worrying


----------



## Maurey

Siskin said:


> The amount of infections for covid in the U.K. has gone up substantially over the last week, today's was 4182. Death rate remains low. The infection rate was steadily getting lower and lower and had got below 2000 several times. I guess the Indian variant is responsible. I had heard it was tending to effect those not vaccinated, but I don't know if that remains the case. Bit worrying


Any statistics on the number of hospitalisations? If those aren't rising, either, the increase in infections isn't necessarily super concerning, though unfortunate regardless.


----------



## rona

Maurey said:


> Any statistics on the number of hospitalisations? If those aren't rising, either, the increase in infections isn't necessarily super concerning, though unfortunate regardless.


It's gone from 77 a week ago to 134 today


----------



## Maurey

rona said:


> It's gone from 77 a week ago to 134 today


Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> It's gone from 77 a week ago to 134 today


----------



## Blackadder

rona said:


> It's gone from 77 a week ago to 134 today


How many of those were unvaccinated?


----------



## rona

Blackadder said:


> How many of those were unvaccinated?


I can't seem to find those figures, can you?

From what they are saying, most haven' t been, or only had one jab

edit: Just heard on news that 3% of hospitalizations are people who have had 2 jabs
So out of 889 that are in hospital at the moment, approx 27 have had double dose. Of course, we don't know how old they are or how frail they were beforehand


----------



## Blackadder

From what I have heard the rise in infections is mainly in minority ethnic communities where multi generation households are more common & there is a reluctance to have the vaccine due to misinformation, posts on social media saying that the vaccines contain pork products & Imams telling people that the vaccine isn't Halal...

The vaccines work (mostly) & we need a big effort to educate all those doubters.

Just to add... I work with a guy who refuses to have the vaccine because he read on social media that it's really "gene therapy"  when I asked him why would they do that he didn't know but added "they're not messing with my genes"!


----------



## rona

Blackadder said:


> because he read on social media


I find it very disturbing, just how much influence you can have on social media.
Make up some absurd claim, doctor a few pictures and twist a few words on a study or something and bingo.
I also find it disturbing, just how many people fall for it


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I also find it disturbing, just how many people fall for it


Yep! People come on PF and quote FB and Twitter as though they are founts of all believable knowledge.
@Blackadder: it actually sounds as though the guy you know might benefit from some gene therapy!


----------



## HarlequinCat

I've read somewhere - take it with a pinch of salt because I do not know how reliable the info is - that Russia is paying western social media "influencers" to say the vaccine is no good, not safe etc.

Here the cases are still so low even though the Indian variant has been in the country a month or so. And I think that is because our uptake of the vaccine has been high. There has been a very very small amount of people in the eligible categories that have refused the vaccine.

I'm sure the media are hyping this up because Covid has been such a good seller for them. Probably more than ever people have been reading their articles.


----------



## Cully

Hm, there's a program on channel 4 on Tuesday, The Anti-Vax Conspiracy. I really wish it wasn't being shown. There are too many confused people already without making matters worse.


----------



## SbanR

HarlequinCat said:


> I've read somewhere - take it with a pinch of salt because I do not know how reliable the info is - that Russia is paying western social media "influencers" to say the vaccine is no good, not safe etc.


Heard on telly that a study found that's not true. Can't tell you more as wasn't paying too much attention - doing too many things at the same time


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

Cully said:


> Hm, there's a program on channel 4 on Tuesday, The Anti-Vax Conspiracy. I really wish it wasn't being shown. There are too many confused people already without making matters worse.


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

I had my first Covid vaccine today. It was Pfizer.


----------



## rona

I'm glad the bank holiday weekend was hot. It's made it a very good test of just how robust our vaccine program is, and we should see a substantial rise in cases by June 21st if it's not. At least the picture should be a lot clearer by then!


----------



## MollySmith

Sharing this as I felt like it was appropriate. I felt better for the advance notice anyway,


----------



## willa

MissMiloKitty said:


> I had my first Covid vaccine today. It was Pfizer.


I had Pfizer today. My arm is painful & I feel so sick


----------



## Siskin

Is there a website giving daily hospital admission countrywide?


----------



## Psygon

Siskin said:


> Is there a website giving daily hospital admission countrywide?


Yes here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Have to scroll down a bit for hospitalisations.


----------



## Siskin

Psygon said:


> Yes here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
> 
> Have to scroll down a bit for hospitalisations.


Lovely, thank you


----------



## 5r6ubertbe6y

willa said:


> I had Pfizer today. My arm is painful & I feel so sick


My sore arm lasted throughout the first night but eased off in the morning.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Sharing this as I felt like it was appropriate. I felt better for the advance notice anyway,
> 
> View attachment 469604


Not really sure of the point of this.

There is always a catch up day after the weekend, and there has been a bank holiday soooo....

Am I missing something? Are they saying the government is conspiring to say the numbers are increasing more than they actually are?


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> Sharing this as I felt like it was appropriate. I felt better for the advance notice anyway,
> 
> View attachment 469604


Who actually wrote it - someone who knows what they are talking about? As @MilleD says, we know three days are more than two.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh if the figures stop people going crazy and causing a third wave, I’m happy.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> Hm, there's a program on channel 4 on Tuesday, The Anti-Vax Conspiracy. I really wish it wasn't being shown. There are too many confused people already without making matters worse.


I watched it yesterday and found it really interesting - would recommend in 'the ''What are you watching'' thread. It's on catch-up. Having to watch that ghastly Piers Corbyn (brother of the more famous Jeremy) making a total pillock of himself is irritating, but the programme is well worth a watch. Anti-vax in the States is big money; found the whole thing very informative.


----------



## Cully

Yes I forced myself to watch it albeit cringing at what could have been anti vaxers thrusting their opinions, but was pleased it wasn't like that. Mostly about the doctor , Andrew Wakefield, who was responsible for scare tactics about the MMR jab and opposing vaccinations in general. all with profiteering in mind.
I actually found it quite positive viewing and more towards encouraging people to ignore the negative stuff they hear about vaccines.


----------



## rona

Indian variant is now in my town


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> Andrew Wakefield, who was responsible for scare tactics about the MMR jab and opposing vaccinations in general. all with profiteering in mind


Struck off here and making megabucks in the States, and backed by so many wealthy people (one of the Kennedys even) - unbelievable.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Indian variant is now in my town


Oh no you don't that, tell it to go away.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Indian variant is now in my town


And apparently now there is a Nepalese variant (which itself is a variant of the Indian variant) - so that's something to look forward to.


----------



## Cully

I see all the variants have been given names from the Greek alphabet to avoid stigma. Kent is Alpha, South African is Beta, Brazil is Gamma, and Indian is Delta. I wonder how much money that cost to dream up?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cully said:


> I see all the variants have been given names from the Greek alphabet to avoid stigma. Kent is Alpha, South African is Beta, Brazil is Gamma, and Indian is Delta. I wonder how much money that cost to dream up?


Except the general population will continue to call them their original name anyway


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Who actually wrote it - someone who knows what they are talking about? As @MilleD says, we know three days are more than two.


it's from Simple Politics and posted the day before the results.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> it's from Simple Politics and posted the day before the results.


OK.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> it's from Simple Politics and posted the day before the results.


Did what they say was going to happen happen?


----------



## kimthecat

Two cases of Monkeypox in Wales. Should I start a new thread? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57431322


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> Two cases of Monkeypox in Wales. Should I start a new thread?
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57431322


 Don't you dare if we ignore it it will go away


----------



## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> Don't you dare if we ignore it it will go away


:Hilarious Its unfair blaming the monkeys!


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> My state, and my community, are completely open including not requiring mask use. Some stores may still be requiring face masks. I am happy to oblige, probably will continue to wear one in any store, required or not, even though I am vaccinated.
> 
> We are still required to wear them at work. Again, it doesn't bother me. I am mostly tired of taking my temperature twice a day and recording it. I'll be glad to see the back of that.


Well it happened. I went rushing to the store yesterday after work and forgot to put on my mask, so I went in without it. It felt weird for a few minutes, then I relaxed and forgot about it. So I guess I won't bother any more.

Face masks at work are no longer required for vaccinated employees.

Our building is opening to the public on Monday, which means no more remote work options. I am really struggling with this, I'm so depressed about losing my work-from-home in the afternoon.

I've been working most of the day in the office, then I come home for lunch to take care of the cats and finish the last hours at home. It's been wonderful and my elderly Mazy cat is doing so well under all this extra care.

And I'm significantly less tired.

But now I have to go back in, in the afternoon, and there won't be any way for me to make up the missed meals. She's getting so she can only eat a small amount at a time, then needs 2 hours between eating another small amount. There just aren't enough hours in the working day to feed her enough.

So I am trying to just be grateful I have my job. But I keep losing little sobs over it.

PS I did ask for, and was granted, my request that I take my afternoon (contractual) 15 minute break tacked onto my lunch hour, which gives me a little bit more time to take care of Mazy cat. But even that isn't making me feel better. Hopefully once I'm in the new routine I'll find it's working okay and my spirits will lift. I hate feeling so depressed and on the verge of tears all the time.


----------



## rona

lorilu said:


> Our building is opening to the public on Monday, which means no more remote work options. I am really struggling with this, I'm so depressed about losing my work-from-home in the afternoon.
> 
> I've been working most of the day in the office, then I come home for lunch to take care of the cats and finish the last hours at home. It's been wonderful and my elderly Mazy cat is doing so well under all this extra care.


That must be so hard. I think a lot of people who have just been sort of brainwashed by the system, have discovered that there is a better work life balance to to had. Obviously some jobs require you to be there in person, but also, many don't


----------



## Boxer123

It’s not looking good for opening up what a shame why on earth wait so long for India to go on the red list. Opening completely will make no difference to my life but I feel so sorry for people whose businesses are being ruined.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I was a bit concerned yesterday.

Just after lunch I started to feel a bit odd, sore and achy as if getting flu/cold, then a temperature and a radioactive tum.

Took to my bed and felt really awful.

Kept sniffing things to test my sense of smell (which was fine). No cough.

Dosed up on paracetamol and lots of water and by about 0100 temperature began to subside and (despite having very little sleep) I feel almost back to normal this morning.

Think it must have been the chickpea and quinoa salad I bought in the supermarket.

I’m still wearing a mask, social distancing and sanitising hands so not sure how I could have picked up a bug.

We have some flow tests so I might do one for peace of mind.

Glad I’ve had both doses of the vaccine though.


----------



## Siskin

My SIL has been taking part in a project which has been running since the coronavirus started. It's just reporting her health, what's she's done etc on a daily basis. The group running this (one of the university's I think) send feedback and various bits of info and something that came through was that the symptoms of the Delta (Indian) variant are quite different from the variants that we have been seeing. 
Instead of cough, loss of smell and fever, the Delta variant shows as sore throat, sneezing, and runny nose much like you get with a common cold, coughing is about fifth on the symptom list. Consequently many people think they are getting a summer cold or something and don't feel the need to isolate or even get tested thereby hastening the spread
I'm not saying this is what you have had @Lurcherlad, but it's worth bearing in mind
https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/c...ee-symptoms-of-delta-variant-says-researcher/


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> My SIL has been taking part in a project which has been running since the coronavirus started. It's just reporting her health, what's she's done etc on a daily basis. The group running this (one of the university's I think) send feedback and various bits of info and something that came through was that the symptoms of the Delta (Indian) variant are quite different from the variants that we have been seeing.
> Instead of cough, loss of smell and fever, the Delta variant shows as sore throat, sneezing, and runny nose much like you get with a common cold, coughing is about fifth on the symptom list. Consequently many people think they are getting a summer cold or something and don't feel the need to isolate or even get tested thereby hastening the spread
> I'm not saying this is what you have had @Lurcherlad, but it's worth bearing in mind
> https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/c...ee-symptoms-of-delta-variant-says-researcher/


You've just described my hayfever symptoms


----------



## Cully

Boxer123 said:


> You've just described my hayfever symptoms


Ditto, just thinking the same:Nailbiting.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> You've just described my hayfever symptoms





Cully said:


> Ditto, just thinking the same:Nailbiting.


I know, I'm the same. 
My friend up the road had family to stay over a weekend. Her son and his wife are not vaccinated, they don't want to be apparently. After they left my friend began to feel poorly with either a cold or hay fever symptoms. She took a covid test which was negative, but it's still a bit of a worry. But then it could also be exhaustion as she, like most of us, are out of practice with catering for visitors.
Personally as much as I would have liked to see family, if they are not vaccinated then they don't come in the house. My son and his partner are refusing the vaccine and there is no way that they will be permitted in my house.


----------



## simplysardonic

Boxer123 said:


> You've just described my hayfever symptoms





Cully said:


> Ditto, just thinking the same:Nailbiting.


Same here!


----------



## margy

Lurcherlad said:


> I was a bit concerned yesterday.
> 
> Just after lunch I started to feel a bit odd, sore and achy as if getting flu/cold, then a temperature and a radioactive tum.
> 
> Took to my bed and felt really awful.
> 
> Kept sniffing things to test my sense of smell (which was fine). No cough.
> 
> Dosed up on paracetamol and lots of water and by about 0100 temperature began to subside and (despite having very little sleep) I feel almost back to normal this morning.
> 
> Think it must have been the chickpea and quinoa salad I bought in the supermarket.
> 
> I'm still wearing a mask, social distancing and sanitising hands so not sure how I could have picked up a bug.
> 
> We have some flow tests so I might do one for peace of mind.
> 
> Glad I've had both doses of the vaccine though.


It does make you panic a bit when you think you may have the symptoms. I had a sore throat and felt off this time last year. I stayed off work, quarantined myself from OH and worried about who I'd been in contact with. I booked in for a test and it came back negative. Turns out it was just a normal seasonal virus that does the rounds every year.
This year is so different, I test myself twice a week and feel safer because of having both vaccines. Hope your feeling better soon


----------



## MilleD

So a delay in the roadmap till at least 19th July. 

I feel for all the venues that were thinking they could open.


----------



## Magyarmum

My family lives near Falmouth. Very depressing as it's over 2 years since I've seen them and at the rate the virus is increasing I'm beginning to doubt whether I'll ever see them again.

https://inews.co.uk/news/g7-summit-...et-2450-after-johnson-and-biden-visit-1060710

*G7 summit was 'super spreading' event for Cornwall as cases rocket 2,450% after Johnson and Biden visit*


----------



## StormyThai

Magyarmum said:


> My family lives near Falmouth. Very depressing as it's over 2 years since I've seen them and at the rate the virus is increasing I'm beginning to doubt whether I'll ever see them again.


What a small world, my dad lives in Falmouth and it's where I spent most of my early teenage years (grew up in Penryn)...
I'm glad that someone else has bought this up...I've not seen my dad since before this all kicked off and have no plans any time soon because moving around the country is not sensible...I've lost my gran and an Aunt who I wasn't able to visit or attend their funerals - so when I see people traveling around the world on their jollies I can't help but feel resentment.

I really hope that you get to see your family again soon.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormyThai said:


> What a small world, my dad lives in Falmouth and it's where I spent most of my early teenage years (grew up in Penryn)...
> I'm glad that someone else has bought this up...I've not seen my dad since before this all kicked off and have no plans any time soon because moving around the country is not sensible...I've lost my gran and an Aunt who I wasn't able to visit or attend their funerals - so when I see people traveling around the world on their jollies I can't help but feel resentment.
> 
> I really hope that you get to see your family again soon.


They also live in Penryn but on a yacht moored in the estuary behind the Sea Cadets building.. When the pandemic first started they stocked the boat with food and sailed further out to sea where they stayed for three months. My son who's had both his jabs but is diabetic is still extremely careful where he goes.

In Hungary our infection rates are way down only just over 100 a day and the death rate is in the single digits. I allow myself the luxury of taking the dogs into the city to meet their trainer who like me has also had his jabs. Unless it's absolutely necessary I avoid shops like the plague even though there are hardly any new infections in the county I live in. We do however treat ourselves to coffee as we can sit outside enjoying the sunshine.


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Personally as much as I would have liked to see family, if they are not vaccinated then they don't come in the house. My son and his partner are refusing the vaccine and there is no way that they will be permitted in my house.


I would feel the same.


----------



## Calvine

London: Piers Corbyn filmed peeling social distancing stickers off Tube | Metro News

His brother must be so proud of him!


----------



## Boxer123

If it wasn’t so serious I’d expect a carry on film to be made about our governments handling of the pandemic. 

Boris and his u turns 
Boris shaking hands with Covid patients then.... catching Covid
Cummings taking an eye test at a castle
Clap for NHS workers then sneakily give them no pay rise we’ve paid them in claps 

Now bought to you by the Conservatives whilst millions were isolated from their family

Matt Hancock Health Secretary having a snog behind the bike shed.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> If it wasn't so serious I'd expect a carry on film to be made about our governments handling of the pandemic.
> 
> Boris and his u turns
> Boris shaking hands with Covid patients then.... catching Covid
> Cummings taking an eye test at a castle
> Clap for NHS workers then sneakily give them no pay rise we've paid them in claps
> 
> Now bought to you by the Conservatives whilst millions were isolated from their family
> 
> Matt Hancock Health Secretary having a snog behind the bike shed.


I know; you could not make it up. Not sure whether to file this under ''You could not make it up'' or ''Here we go loopy loo''! He's the one who had so much to say about Neil Ferguson (Professor Lockdown) who subsequently resigned.
Yes, the eye test I think was the best to date.


----------



## Boxer123

Calvine said:


> I know; you could not make it up. Not sure whether to file this under ''You could not make it up'' or ''Here we go loopy loo''! He's the one who had so much to say about Neil Ferguson (Professor Lockdown) who subsequently resigned.
> Yes, the eye test I think was the best to date.


I know, honestly I know I shouldn't but I laughed out loud today he's not even being discreet just snogging in broad daylight.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> I know, honestly I know I shouldn't but I laughed out loud today he's not even being discreet just snogging in broad daylight.


Too dim to think the place might be full of cameras! Boris, according to Mr Weasel-Cummings, said Hancock was f***ing useless, so now would be a good time to boot him out if he wanted to (bet he doesn't though, since he's a bit of an old shagbag himself). Apparently he has apologised for the Covid breach he committed, bet his wife is really happy about that. She and the woman are (were?) ''friends'' on FB.


----------



## simplysardonic

Boxer123 said:


> If it wasn't so serious I'd expect a carry on film to be made about our governments handling of the pandemic.
> 
> Boris and his u turns
> Boris shaking hands with Covid patients then.... catching Covid
> Cummings taking an eye test at a castle
> Clap for NHS workers then sneakily give them no pay rise we've paid them in claps
> 
> Now bought to you by the Conservatives whilst millions were isolated from their family
> 
> Matt Hancock Health Secretary having a snog behind the bike shed.


To be honest, whenever I think of our government the Benny Hill theme music just pops right in my head!


----------



## Boxer123

simplysardonic said:


> To be honest, whenever I think of our government the Benny Hill theme music just pops right in my head!


 That's so true.


----------



## simplysardonic

Boxer123 said:


> That's so true.


Some of the Matt Hancock memes I'm seeing on Facebook are absolutely hilarious, unfortunately not suitable for a family forum:Hilarious

Let's just say 'eat out to help out' has taken on a new meaning.


----------



## Boxer123

simplysardonic said:


> Some of the Matt Hancock memes I'm seeing on Facebook are absolutely hilarious, unfortunately not suitable for a family forum:Hilarious
> 
> Let's just say 'eat out to help out' has taken on a new meaning.


It's made it into the cheer me up Scottie thread hilarious. I love the lack of shame id be to embarrassed not to quit.


----------



## Dave S

At last he has resigned. Whoever gets the job cannot do a worse one than him at least.


----------



## rona

Dave S said:


> At last he has resigned. Whoever gets the job cannot do a worse one than him at least.


At least he has some decency about him, unlike that other little weasel


----------



## Dave S

rona said:


> At least he has some decency about him, unlike that other little weasel


His first decency was to his wife and children and behave himself. Boris could not sack him as Boris has done exactly the same.
Perhaps Cummings will give himself a wry smile as well.


----------



## Siskin

Im getting daily covid tests whilst in hospital, new policy apparently due to the rising rate. I had nice chat with the nurse that does the poking with the test sticks. She’s originally from the Philippines and came here to find work. She’s had covid twice now, some weird symptoms too, severe acid indigestion. She’s recently had breast cancer so one to worry about, but she’s still there working away caring for others.


----------



## Siskin

Apparently there is a patient on the ward is what is termed covid exposed. She is locked away in a room and the staff go in fully togged in ppe and regularly test her. Must account for why the rest of us are being tested daily. I hope this is a just a scare, I can’t escape


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> His first decency was to his wife and children and behave himself. *Boris could not sack him as Boris has done exactly the same.*
> Perhaps Cummings will give himself a wry smile as well.


Exactly. I do wonder how Hancock managed to keep an eye on the job. Fiver says Mrs Hancock leaked the video footage.

and as for decency.... there's the matter of Gina Coladangelo and the NHS contracts awarded to her brother by Hancock...


----------



## Lurcherlad

It’s pathetic how some people have so little control of their animal desires (or consider the consequences of acting upon them) 

I really feel for the partners and children who have to deal with the public humiliation (not to mention the devastation of their lives)


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> At last he has resigned. Whoever gets the job cannot do a worse one than him at least.


Well, I think you've got that one wrong, look who his appointed now.


----------



## Cleo38

simplysardonic said:


> Some of the Matt Hancock memes I'm seeing on Facebook are absolutely hilarious, unfortunately not suitable for a family forum:Hilarious
> 
> Let's just say 'eat out to help out' has taken on a new meaning.


OMG, that one was hilarious .... nauseating!!!

Am loving the memes tbh as it's taken the anger away a bit. Yet again we are supposed to abide by 'the rules' whilst those in power flaunt them. F*ck the rules, I have always done what I thought best & am glad I did. It's disgusting, so many people have made such huge sacrifices, lost loved ones, not been able to see family, had businesses ruined, etc yet those with power seem to do what they want.

I hope that people now open their eyes & start to live their lives again.


----------



## simplysardonic

Cleo38 said:


> OMG, that one was hilarious .... nauseating!!!
> 
> Am loving the memes tbh as it's taken the anger away a bit. Yet again we are supposed to abide by 'the rules' whilst those in power flaunt them. F*ck the rules, I have always done what I thought best & am glad I did. It's disgusting, so many people have made such huge sacrifices, lost loved ones, not been able to see family, had businesses ruined, etc yet those with power seem to do what they want.
> 
> I hope that people now open their eyes & start to live their lives again.


Our Esteemed Leaders have always been more of the 'do as I say, but we'll do as we please' types.

It'll be nice not to see so much of his smirky face once the scandal dies down, my oldest son did amuse me when he sent me this (his own creation) last week though:


----------



## Calvine

Dave S said:


> Whoever gets the job cannot do a worse one than him at least.


I wouldn't bank on it: watch this space as they say.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> really feel for the partners and children who have to deal with the public humiliation


Especially the children, old enough to read newspapers, know what's happening and no doubt hearing jibes at school - selfish idiots don't think of that. They must have already heard a lot of negative comments about their father over the past year (justified or otherwise) but this really is far worse for them. Poor kids.

Apparently poor old Chris Whitty has been attacked on the street by a pair of thugs.


----------



## Cleo38

Hahhaha, that is hilarious @simplysardonic !


----------



## Dave S

Calvine said:


> I wouldn't bank on it: watch this space as they say.


Yes, OK, but I did not know then that _he_ would be offered the job.

Having said that, although he is a good friend of Carrie, he did actually resign his last post on principle if I remember correctly. Perhaps he has a load more integrity that MH but the job he has now I do not think he is suited to. I hope I ma wrong.

As regards the odd couples partners and children, I do feel sorry for them as they seem quite innocent in these going-on's and I hope they get support from all friends and family, especially the children. Mrs H and Oliver must be devastated but they have not as far as I can see gone to the press and "off loaded" their feelings.


----------



## MollySmith

Anyway happily Hancock's replacement has said we're all back to normal on 19th July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57643694

Despite a 61% rise in cases.



Calvine said:


> Especially the children, old enough to read newspapers, know what's happening and no doubt hearing jibes at school - selfish idiots don't think of that. They must have already heard a lot of negative comments about their father over the past year (justified or otherwise) but this really is far worse for them. Poor kids.
> 
> Apparently poor old Chris Whitty has been attacked on the street by a pair of thugs.


I'm so surprised to read that Chief Knob says Whitty 'May' get police protection, I assumed he already had it. Poor chap, it was awful to see.


----------



## Magyarmum

Our figures have really gone down. Only 34 new infections and 2 deaths yesterday. 

I had a lovely day out yesterday, the first in over a year and the first time for ages I've left the boys at home. 

Went to the hairdressers, then looked for a new pair of shoes which I didn't find, before having a big grocery shop in my favourite hypermarket. Treated myself to some new houseplants, a large slice of pizza and a coffee, which I had to eat outside because eating inside the shopping mall still isn't allowed 

Filled the car up with petrol on the way back home to find when I got there two little bodies wiggling with excitement because their mum was home and hadn't deserted them after all.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Some figures quoted recent daily Covid death numbers (obviously still dreadful for those concerned) in comparison to cancer, suicide, heart attacks etc. as considerably lower.

Now that so many are vaccinated and risk of serious illness, hospitalisation and death are much lower, maybe it is time we stayed getting back to normal and learning to live with this virus going forward as it’s never going away. We can’t stay this way forever.

I have followed the rules willingly but think now we need to get back to the new normal (with sensible safeguards) as quickly as possible.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Some figures quoted recent daily Covid death numbers (obviously still dreadful for those concerned) in comparison to cancer, suicide, heart attacks etc. as considerably lower.
> 
> Now that so many are vaccinated and risk of serious illness, hospitalisation and death are much lower, maybe it is time we stayed getting back to normal and learning to live with this virus going forward as it's never going away. We can't stay this way forever.
> 
> I have followed the rules willingly but think now we need to get back to the new normal (with sensible safeguards) as quickly as possible.


Yes to a point.

I'm thinking of those who have been working at home, individual tolerances and handling mental health, it's go to be so carefully handled. Once lifted there is a huge pressure on people to go back to offices and spaces that may not have considered the implications of Covid as well as others. It's got to be handled with care to avoid a mental health crisis. My friend runs a change consultancy mostly for mergers but her services are being used for post Covid workplaces and how to adapt. Many companies are being bullish in her experiences and she's having to temper them.

I've managed to get hair cut, a coffee with a friend. Yet to use public transport (fortunately I can walk everywhere I need to) but not a pub though we have done takeaways as we want to support the local. I can't see myself going back to share office spaces or in person events yet. I've got this far.

I think folk will have to be flexible - more JOMO joy of missing out than FOMO! But when governments (untrustworthy ones in my own opinion, respect that others may disagree) issue advice it tends to be lawful, a licence to dictate by bosses, or more or less required and that's not possible for many right now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Work is definitely a tricky one for a lot of people but we can choose for ourselves how far “out of lockdown” we feel comfortable to be in social settings, shopping, public indoor places, etc.

I’m slowly dipping my toe in the water myself.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> Yes to a point.
> 
> I'm thinking of those who have been working at home, individual tolerances and handling mental health, it's go to be so carefully handled. Once lifted there is a huge pressure on people to go back to offices and spaces that may not have considered the implications of Covid as well as others. It's got to be handled with care to *avoid a mental health crisis*. My friend runs a change consultancy mostly for mergers but her services are being used for post Covid workplaces and how to adapt. Many companies are being bullish in her experiences and she's having to temper them.
> 
> I've managed to get hair cut, a coffee with a friend. Yet to use public transport (fortunately I can walk everywhere I need to) but not a pub though we have done takeaways as we want to support the local. I can't see myself going back to share office spaces or in person events yet. I've got this far.
> 
> I think folk will have to be flexible - more JOMO joy of missing out than FOMO! But when governments (untrustworthy ones in my own opinion, respect that others may disagree) issue advice it tends to be lawful, a licence to dictate by bosses, or more or less required and that's not possible for many right now.


But the isolation that many people are currently feeling with 'the rules' is having a massive impact on mental health & has been since this started. I am lucky in that I am fine being on my own (working from home as well) & not seeing many people but I seem to be in the minority. Many of my work colleagues are wanting to get back in to the office as they are not handling working from home full time. Luckily my employer has handled this very well & working in the office will be for those who need to come back in rather than forcing people to.

I am going to London next month for a visit to a gallery & lunch. I will have the usual anxiety about going to a city (am such a country bumpkin now!) but Covid doesn't really worry me.


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> But the isolation that many people are currently feeling with 'the rules' is having a massive impact on mental health & has been since this started. I am lucky in that I am fine being on my own (working from home as well) & not seeing many people but I seem to be in the minority. Many of my work colleagues are wanting to get back in to the office as they are not handling working from home full time. Luckily my employer has handled this very well & working in the office will be for those who need to come back in rather than forcing people to.
> 
> I am going to London next month for a visit to a gallery & lunch. I will have the usual anxiety about going to a city (am such a country bumpkin now!) but Covid doesn't really worry me.


Absolutely - my husband is struggling - he's retired so his social life has been nil, no football nothing and he's so gregarious. It really so complicated. I work for myself so it's been so so, I'm a natural introvert/antisocial sort!

I hope all employers are as great as yours. And enjoy London, hopefully like Cambridge, it won't be too crazy and feel much more pleasant.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> Absolutely - my husband is struggling - he's retired so his social life has been nil, no football nothing and he's so gregarious. It really so complicated. I work for myself so it's been so so, I'm a natural introvert/antisocial sort!
> 
> I hope all employers are as great as yours. And enjoy London, hopefully like Cambridge, it won't be too crazy and feel much more pleasant.


We went to the Andy Warhol exhibition at the Tate Modern last year (it was amazing!) & London was so much nicer with less people around. Much easier for someone like me who hates the crowds.

I honestly really feel for people who are struggling. I am loving working from home FT now. I am very organised, have a routine, etc & have probably been more productive overall. And I am so lucky with my employer, they really have been great & done so much to ensure their staff are doing ok. Unfortunately I realise that not many people will be this fortunate.


----------



## simplysardonic

Cleo38 said:


> But the isolation that many people are currently feeling with 'the rules' is having a massive impact on mental health & has been since this started. I am lucky in that I am fine being on my own (working from home as well) & not seeing many people but I seem to be in the minority. Many of my work colleagues are wanting to get back in to the office as they are not handling working from home full time. Luckily my employer has handled this very well & working in the office will be for those who need to come back in rather than forcing people to.
> 
> *I am going to London next month for a visit to a gallery & lunch.* I will have the usual anxiety about going to a city (am such a country bumpkin now!) but Covid doesn't really worry me.


That's something nice to look forward to, the furthest I've been in the last 18 months is Wymondham!

We really need to go back to the Hunterian & finish exploring it at some point, & it would be rude not to pop into the Viktor Wynd for a few cocktails.


----------



## Cleo38

simplysardonic said:


> That's something nice to look forward to, the furthest I've been in the last 18 months is Wymondham!
> 
> We really need to go back to the Hunterian & finish exploring it at some point, & it would be rude not to pop into the Viktor Wynd for a few cocktails.


We definitely do! I was thinking about the Victor Wynd Museum the other day as that was such a great place to visit


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> We went to the Andy Warhol exhibition at the Tate Modern last year (it was amazing!) & London was so much nicer with less people around. Much easier for someone like me who hates the crowds.
> 
> I honestly really feel for people who are struggling. I am loving working from home FT now. I am very organised, have a routine, etc & have probably been more productive overall. And I am so lucky with my employer, they really have been great & done so much to ensure their staff are doing ok. Unfortunately I realise that not many people will be this fortunate.


awh, I really wanted to go to that exhibition- I bet it was amazing. Yes, I hate crowds. It's one of those weird good things of last year, less people.

I think some employers have to to review how they trust their staff - i think it's made many question on all sides, but it's reassuring to know there are some good ones out there.


----------



## MollySmith

We had a Big Discussion about going to Cornwall in October and decided we will go. It's been carried over for a year. This thread helped - thanks @Cleo38 @simplysardonic and @Lurcherlad.

It's interesting as parents were due to come with us and still could but they're cautious about journeys though they've had jewellery valued, windows replaced on house and other works, been out to lunch a few times. We've not had any building works and only just went out last week - all goes to show the variety in tolerances!


----------



## simplysardonic

MollySmith said:


> awh, I really wanted to go to that exhibition- I bet it was amazing. Yes, I hate crowds. *It's one of those weird good things of last year, less people. *
> 
> I think some employers have to to review how they trust their staff - i think it's made many question on all sides, but it's reassuring to know there are some good ones out there.


I've loved this aspect, especially living in an area that's usually wall to wall tourists, & not respectful ones either- it's mostly the rowdy ones who come here to attempt to pilot Broads Cruisers while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol

Hope you enjoy your holiday in Cornwall, haven't been since I was a teenager but it's a beautiful area.

My dad's been living at his new cottage in Pembrokeshire National Park for 2 years now & I haven't ebeen able to see it yet, not sure if we'll get there this year as I really can't afford time away while growing my business but I do hope so.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> We had a Big Discussion about going to Cornwall in October and decided we will go. It's been carried over for a year. This thread helped - thanks @Cleo38 @simplysardonic and @Lurcherlad.
> 
> It's interesting as parents were due to come with us and still could but they're cautious about journeys though they've had jewellery valued, windows replaced on house and other works, been out to lunch a few times. We've not had any building works and only just went out last week - *all goes to show the variety in tolerances!*


Most definitely. When my mum was alive I was so overly cautious about Covid (she had mesothelioma so already & breathing difficulties). I didn't see anyone, didn't go anywhere (except to my mum's) washed her shopping (& mine), etc.

I hope you have a lovely time in Cornwall, I am thinking of maybe going later in the year. I also hope your parents maybe change their minds & take the opportunity to have a holiday. For me, I think this last year has just shown that we shouldn't take anyone for granted & need to make the most of our lives.


----------



## Boxer123

26000 cases today what is going on ?


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> 26000 cases today what is going on ?


I know, I'm really scared. The fact we are supposed to just be 'opening up' soon is petrifying. I've been having panic attacks since yesterday just thinking about it


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> I know, I'm really scared. The fact we are supposed to just be 'opening up' soon is petrifying. I've been having panic attacks since yesterday just thinking about it


I'm in and out of schools I just have to not think about it I don't know how I've not caught it yet.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Boxer123 said:


> I'm in and out of schools I just have to not think about it I don't know how I've not caught it yet.


Because you are being sensible. I am the only member of our staff team who hasn't had to self isolate and school has been open all through!

I can only put it down to doing my own risk assessment of situations and doing what I need to do.


----------



## Jobeth

MissKittyKat said:


> Because you are being sensible. I am the only member of our staff team who hasn't had to self isolate and school has been open all through!
> 
> I can only put it down to doing my own risk assessment of situations and doing what I need to do.


I've had to self isolate but there's nothing I could have done to avoid it as the child I worked with tested positive.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Jobeth said:


> I've had to self isolate but there's nothing I could have done to avoid it as the child I worked with tested positive.


We've had staff like this too, it's been so disruptive to everyone


----------



## Jobeth

MissKittyKat said:


> We've had staff like this too, it's been so disruptive to everyone


I know. Luckily they were fine and I didn't pass it on to another child that I worked with in a different school. I do everything I can to keep the children safe but there is always that possibility. That's what worries me the most.


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> Most definitely. When my mum was alive I was so overly cautious about Covid (she had mesothelioma so already & breathing difficulties). I didn't see anyone, didn't go anywhere (except to my mum's) washed her shopping (& mine), etc.
> 
> I hope you have a lovely time in Cornwall, I am thinking of maybe going later in the year. I also hope your parents maybe change their minds & take the opportunity to have a holiday. For me, I think this last year has just shown that we shouldn't take anyone for granted & need to make the most of our lives.


thank you. I feel later in the year is wise, it's always nicer then, we've had lovely weather in Sept/Oct.

We've tentatively planned a break with them at a Landmark Trust place with more space and they can manage the drive so they have something to look forward to. In a way just us two going with the dog is a bit easier as we know our tolerances.

@simplysardonic we have definitely seen a rise in visitors in Cambridge this past month. Residents are always outnumbered vastly by tourists and I do miss the peace and safety.

I hope you get to Pembrokeshire. It's important to get a bit of a break when working for yourself as I can attest. And it's a lovely part of the world - like Cornwall but less people!


----------



## Boxer123

MissKittyKat said:


> Because you are being sensible. I am the only member of our staff team who hasn't had to self isolate and school has been open all through!
> 
> I can only put it down to doing my own risk assessment of situations and doing what I need to do.


I wear a mask and just keep washing my hands but I feel like I'm running on dumb luck.


----------



## Charity

For information - Covid and cats and dogs

Covid common in cats and dogs, study finds - BBC News


----------



## O2.0

MissKittyKat said:


> Because you are being sensible. I am the only member of our staff team who hasn't had to self isolate and school has been open all through!
> 
> I can only put it down to doing my own risk assessment of situations and doing what I need to do.


I've been around multiple people who tested positive, including my own child living in this house and never had any symptoms or tested positive.
I don't feel like I was more or less cautious than my peers who did end up getting sick. It seems to be a pretty fickle disease from what I have experienced. People taking every precaution getting sick, people being constantly careless never getting sick.

I'm now fully vaccinated, I think that will help more than anything.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> 26000 cases today what is going on ?


I read somewhere today that the rise in rate is due to football fans forgetting to wear masks and socially distance when travelling on buses and trains, and large crowds gathering without a care


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> I read somewhere today that the rise in rate is due to football fans forgetting to wear masks and socially distance when travelling on buses and trains, and large crowds gathering without a care


But even so surely most people are vaccinated I just get worried we will never be back to normal again.


----------



## SbanR

Boxer123 said:


> But even so surely most people are vaccinated I just get worried we will never be back to normal again.


But many of the younger adults have only had their first jab? And I've heard that only gives about 30+% protection.


----------



## Boxer123

SbanR said:


> But many of the younger adults have only had their first jab? And I've heard that only gives about 30+% protection.


It was 75% in the news last week I don't understand how it can only give 30% and two 100%. Sorry Covid is stressing me out.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> But even so surely most people are vaccinated I just get worried we will never be back to normal again.


They are and it not them that are getting infected in the main. The ones in the hospital I'm at are unvaccinated.
The death rate is very low still, I don't know the age demographic of those that are dying or their vaccination status but I doubt it's many older folk that are vaccinated.


----------



## Blackadder

Boxer123 said:


> I'm in and out of schools I just have to not think about it I don't know how I've not caught it yet.


Maybe you have had it but didn't have any symptoms? A good proportion of the population are the same....none or very mild symptoms.


----------



## Jesthar

Boxer123 said:


> But even so surely most people are vaccinated I just get worried we will never be back to normal again.


Chances are we're not going back to the old 'normal' - but, then again, what IS normal? There's not really any such thing, only what we choose to think of as normal - and then the world moves on and so does what we think of as normal. It's just been a bit of a bigger change than usual, that's all


----------



## Siskin

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but AZ vaccine that was made in India is, at the moment not recognised by the EU and people having had it may not enter Europe. There is nothing wrong with the vaccine, it's just that the health authority for the EU has not recognised it yet
The following link gives the batch numbers of the Indian made vaccines

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle...ccine-numbers-made-india-uk-eu-travel-1083092


----------



## Magyarmum

From today all restrictions in Hungary, including the wearing of masks inside public building and social distancing have been lifted. 

I had to pop into my local town this morning because I'd forgotten to buy frankfurters for treats for the boys and Spar was packed with MASKLESS people!  Nearly freaked out but then decided I might as well perpetuate my reputation as an eccentric English gentlewoman, so put on my mask and ventured forth into the melee!

Personally, I couldn't give a stuff what people think because my personal opinion is that if the rest of Europe and the US are anything to go by, this virus, particularly the new Delta variant, hasn't finished with us mortals by a long chalk. And being selfish I'd really like to survive for a bit longer


----------



## rona

Next summer..............I might...........might go maskless next summer


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but AZ vaccine that was made in India is, at the moment not recognised by the EU and people having had it may not enter Europe. There is nothing wrong with the vaccine, it's just that the health authority for the EU has not recognised it yet
> The following link gives the batch numbers of the Indian made vaccines
> 
> https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle...ccine-numbers-made-india-uk-eu-travel-1083092


Oh blast! My first AZ vaccine was on that batch number list. I was hoping to see family in Europe at some point when travel was safe again but this might throw a spanner in the works


----------



## Siskin

kittih said:


> Oh blast! My first AZ vaccine was on that batch number list. I was hoping to see family in Europe at some point when travel was safe again but this might throw a spanner in the works


Keep googling the story, there are EU countries who want to let U.K. visitors in and theres a bit of a row going on with the EU officials who are being there normal difficult selves


----------



## Magyarmum

kittih said:


> Oh blast! My first AZ vaccine was on that batch number list. I was hoping to see family in Europe at some point when travel was safe again but this might throw a spanner in the works


I have a similar problem. I had the Chinese Sinopharm vaccine which is recognised by the WHO but not the EU and is only accepted by certain European countries.
.


----------



## kittih

Siskin said:


> Keep googling the story, there are EU countries who want to let U.K. visitors in and theres a bit of a row going on with the EU officials who are being there normal difficult selves


Luckily I have no plans to travel anywhere until Christmas at the very earliest so hopefully all this craziness can be resolved by then. Will have to see if they will change their minds at some point ( not currently on the list of those countries accepting WHOs emergency vaccine list unfortunately and I am still too cynical to believe government's won't change the rules with zero notice).

@Magyarmum sorry to hear you are in the same boat. The news outlets and MPs always seem to focus on people's summer holidays but there are so many people with families abroad who are waiting for the chance to see loved ones again.


----------



## MollySmith

Well here you go...... anyone missing Matt Hancock


----------



## Siskin

I can’t help but worry about this. The high number of cases is worrying. The only thing that can be said is that it seems to be mainly the unvaccinated that are being affected


----------



## MollySmith

And ignoring science and GP's who have all expressed caution. I utterly despair of this government I really do.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk...PFEbHoC8ia15zbJ4YMCqfyWEvnu0uQ8ff0vmU_p_VWSlQ


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Well here you go...... anyone missing Matt Hancock
> 
> View attachment 471679
> View attachment 471680
> View attachment 471679


Sorry to disappoint you Sajid but Hungary opened up yesterday!

Personally I think it's a great mistake and shall continue wearing a mask and take all the necessary precautions until I feel it's safe to stop. Neither of my best friends have yet been vaccinated and I've told them there's no way I'm going to see them until they've at least had their first jab. .

https://xpatloop.com/channels/2021/...bThVaZ8PYysmSOnNyjrW_C39d8s_bHkofBHHSkOW3oUR8

*Face Masks Rules & More Restrictions Relaxed After Today in Hungary*


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but AZ vaccine that was made in India is, at the moment not recognised by the EU and people having had it may not enter Europe. There is nothing wrong with the vaccine, it's just that the health authority for the EU has not recognised it yet
> The following link gives the batch numbers of the Indian made vaccines
> 
> https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle...ccine-numbers-made-india-uk-eu-travel-1083092


No idea what batch I had, it wasn't written on the card.....


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> No idea what batch I had, it wasn't written on the card.....


Apparently you can get it via the NHA app according to the article (assuming you booked that way)


----------



## MollySmith

More conspiracy theories.... I don't think any GP has any time to sew never mind get to a post office and a run an Etsy store....


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> I can't help but worry about this. The high number of cases is worrying. The only thing that can be said is that it seems to be mainly the unvaccinated that are being affected


and using a media outlet to broadcast a message too. And not one everyone reads - I refuse to entertain the DM in any form. This leads to absolute confusion unless that's the point so they can blame the population for another spike.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> More conspiracy theories.... I don't think any GP has any time to sew never mind get to a post office and a run an Etsy store....
> 
> View attachment 471699


That's hilarious I can't imagine they would make a fortune peddling their mask business. I would like to carry on with masks I normally get colds, sore throats nothing this year.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Apparently you can get it via the NHA app according to the article (assuming you booked that way)


I didn't book that way

The fact I've had the jab is on my patient access record, but the batch number isn't there either.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I didn't book that way
> 
> The fact I've had the jab is on my patient access record, but the batch number isn't there either.


oh no


----------



## MollySmith

If you feel worried about the announcements made today by BlowJo please write to your MP and let them know how you're feeling. The final decision isn't until next week, public opinion could sway this. Literally a quick email - it's the time it takes to post on a Pet Forum. It's why they're there and what they're paid to do.

https://members.parliament.uk/members/commons


----------



## Pawscrossed

It is confused already. Chris Whitty is clarifying when he would wear a mask. This contradicts Johnson it seems. I will write to our MP. Unfortunately Tory but worth a go. Good advice @MollySmith, he can have my rant,


----------



## margy

I will continue to wear a mask on public transport as I often walk down to town but because I live at the top of a high hill, I get the bus home.


----------



## simplysardonic

They've had to close the kitchen at my son's work & send everyone home as one of his colleagues has tested positive.

So tomorrow afternoon I'm driving him to the other side of Norwich for a test, & have advised my lovely client so she can decide whether she wants me in to walk her dogs in the morning.



MollySmith said:


> More conspiracy theories.... I don't think any GP has any time to sew never mind get to a post office and a run an Etsy store....
> 
> View attachment 471699


Oh yes I'm sure many are moonlighting at their lucrative mask making cottage industry after a hard day of doctoring


----------



## MollySmith

I know not everyone here likes the Guardian and I have to say it's a depressing read these days but this is such a lin intelligent piece from Professor Devi Sridhar who is Chair of Global Public Health, Uni of Edinburgh. I follow her on Twitter and she's very to the point, clear and reassuringly right and realistic. She makes a good case for caution and freedom with restrictions based on facts.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...with-coronavirus-delta-variant-virus-children

she also posted this which I felt captured the mood


----------



## MilleD

What I don't understand is how they are saying it will be up to you if you wear a mask.

BUT, wearing a mask protects others not yourself mainly. So how will that help people who still feel at risk?

I think on public transport masks should still be mandatory. After all, you can choose to go to a shop or a pub, and avoid people when you are there, but to most people who use it, public transport is a necessity (and a more confined space), so it feels a totally different situation to one you can choose to be in.


----------



## rona

Yes......so all the twonks are going to put everyone at risk 

I can be as careful as I like but that doesn't stop someone else putting me at risk! 

I know we have to come out of this but lifting the use of masks inside (apart from those that work there) is a step too far


----------



## StormyThai

I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance from strangers. I won't be using public transport unless people are masked. 
My mask with a decent filter has stopped me getting any colds this year....I've not even had my flu jab because I didn't feel like I needed it! That shows me anecdotally that my mask works very well at stopping virus particles reaching my face so I will ignore the idiot that is now our new health minister and continue to listen to the science 


The amount of people that can't be bothered to sanitize their hands at the "free" hand sanitizer as they walk past it shows me that most people still can't be trusted


----------



## SusieRainbow

StormyThai said:


> I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance from strangers. I won't be using public transport unless people are masked.
> My mask with a decent filter has stopped me getting any colds this year....I've not even had my flu jab because I didn't feel like I needed it! That shows me anecdotally that my mask works very well at stopping virus particles reaching my face so I will ignore the idiot that is now our new health minister and continue to listen to the science
> 
> The amount of people that can't be bothered to sanitize their hands at the "free" hand sanitizer as they walk past it shows me that most people still can't be trusted


I agree, if nowhere else masks should be worn on public transport. I will continue mask wearing and hand sanitising where it seems appropriate.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> No idea what batch I had, it wasn't written on the card...


I didn't get a card, and when I asked for one they looked at as if I was speaking gobbledegook.


----------



## Cully

I've recently taken the first tentative steps in using public transport as I felt safe with the distancing and mask wearing in place. It's taken me such a long time to pluck up the courage.
Now it looks like I will become a stay at home hermit again once the post 19th July free-for-all commences.
Also my long awaited 'urgent' appointment to see my consultant will be put back as the NHS becomes overwhelmed with covid cases again.
The rules worked. Why are **** heads dissing them?:Banghead


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I didn't get a card, and when I asked for one they looked at as if I was speaking gobbledegook.


Really?

So you don't know your batch number either?


----------



## Gemmaa

I don't understand why we can't keep the social distancing measures in supermarkets. Even if it's just space at the tills. 
Or why not keep social distancing in unavoidable places, until the majority have had a second dose? 

It feels like we're guinea pigs.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I didn't get a card, and when I asked for one they looked at as if I was speaking gobbledegook.


Your medical records should show it somewhere.

First, ring your GP and ask them to look it up for you or at least tell you how to go about finding out the information.


----------



## Cully

Gemmaa said:


> I don't understand why we can't keep the social distancing measures in supermarkets. Even if it's just space at the tills.
> Or why not keep social distancing in unavoidable places, until the majority have had a second dose?
> 
> It feels like we're guinea pigs.


In my local Tesco they have distancing in the queue for the tills. Great, BUT, you still end up standing shoulder to shoulder with the person in the queue for the till alongside you.


----------



## MilleD

Gemmaa said:


> I don't understand why we can't keep the social distancing measures in supermarkets. Even if it's just space at the tills.
> Or why not keep social distancing in unavoidable places, until the majority have had a second dose?
> 
> It feels like we're guinea pigs.


I have wondered if the perspex screen will stay in place as they don't take up any room. Across the fronts of bars and things. Maybe....


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Your medical records should show it somewhere.
> 
> First, ring your GP and ask them to look it up for you or at least tell you how to go about finding out the information.


It's hard enough getting through when you need an appointment!!

I've looked on Patient Access. The batch numbers are not on the record that the patient can see.

If the jabs weren't done at the GP but a vaccination centre, I do wonder if the batch numbers will have been recorded anywhere? Unless all the vaccines they gave out came from the same batch. I have no idea how big a batch is...


----------



## Siskin

I downloaded the nhs app and the details of my covid vaccines are on there including batch numbers. I also got a card on both jabs with batch numbers noted


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I downloaded the nhs app and the details of my covid vaccines are on there including batch numbers. I also got a card on both jabs with batch numbers noted


I've downloaded the PDF of the covid passport thing from the NHS website. No batch numbers on there.

Where in the app are those details please?


----------



## Happy Paws2

This fills you with condense...

*Health Secretary Sajid Javid has said. *daily cases "could go as high as 100,000" when restrictions were fully lifted.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I've downloaded the PDF of the covid passport thing from the NHS website. No batch numbers on there.
> 
> Where in the app are those details please?


The App is called NHS App. I'm using an iPad, but there is a google version as well. I can only tell you from the Apple version but I should imagine they are the same generally. I believe you need to download the app in order to be able to see your records
Once set up and into the system, this doesn't take long, then go to your go records then immunisation record. These are in a listing on each page of the app


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> I've downloaded the PDF of the covid passport thing from the NHS website. No batch numbers on there.
> 
> Where in the app are those details please?


 MilleD, you can get a letter from the NHS which will give you all the details of when and where vaccinated, vaccine type, batch numbers. I cant access the NHS app but thought i may need vaccine proof at some point so I have the letter. Type in NHS COVID pass letter and it should take you to the page to fill out your details, need your NHS number I didnt know mine but got it sent via text message within minutes. The letter arrived about 5 days later, you can apply for the letter two weeks after receiving second jab.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Your medical records should show it somewhere.
> 
> First, ring your GP and ask them to look it up for you or at least tell you how to go about finding out the information.





Happy Paws2 said:


> This fills you with condense...
> 
> *Health Secretary Sajid Javid has said. *daily cases "could go as high as 100,000" when restrictions were fully lifted.


 I saw that . . . it seems a very casual comment to throw in, considering the numbers.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Really?
> 
> So you don't know your batch number either?


 ''I know nurthing, Mr Fawlty'' (she said in a Manuel-type voice).


----------



## Siskin

I’m not at all sure about Sajid, I feel he’s a go with the flow populist kind of person who wants to be liked rather then anyone capable of working for the common good. I may be completely wrong though.

I guess we will as a world, are going to have to learn to live with covid and not try to panic at rising case numbers, but that is rather difficult. If we didn’t know precise number would we be less worried and more accepting of relaxation of the rules we have been living under to protect us all?
I suspect the lifestyle my husband and I follow will largely keep us away from contracting covid as we don’t go out that much and prefer quiet uk crowded places, but there is everyone else who have to travel on public transport and work in busy places who must be so fearful. It’s them I feel sorry for.


----------



## Pawscrossed

It is like removing road safety laws and letting us drive as we like.


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> This fills you with condense...
> 
> *Health Secretary Sajid Javid has said. *daily cases "could go as high as 100,000" when restrictions were fully lifted.


Herd immunity.


----------



## MilleD

Thanks @Siskin and @3dogs2cats I think I need to look at the entire NHS website. Maybe I am just looking at the Covid pass bit that doesn't show batch numbers for anyone?

My phone is full and can't download the app, will do it on the iPad later and have a look.

Edit to add, I can't see it is going to be any different to Patient Access, but we will see.


----------



## MilleD

Pawscrossed said:


> It is like removing road safety laws and letting us drive as we like.


In fairness, most people would still drive with an element of common sense, or not drive at all. So unless we carry on like that, it's not a great analogy.

Of course, it could be how it plays out totally.


----------



## MollySmith

I thought I’d report back to say that I emailed my MP and got a response today to say it was noted, what data he and the House expect and he shared my concerns.

I do feel it’s worth doing, we did voted for them to work for us and given there’s so little we can do like march, perhaps a torrent of emails might sway opinion or make it more known. Worth a go, takes a few mins, could be all the difference.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I thought I'd report back to say that I emailed my MP and got a response today to say it was noted, what data he and the House expect and he shared my concerns.
> 
> I do feel it's worth doing, we did voted for them to work for us and given there's so little we can do like march, perhaps a torrent of emails might sway opinion or make it more known. Worth a go, takes a few mins, could be all the difference.


No point with mine, I doubt she has answered a single query from the constituents since she was parachuted into the seat


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I feel so stressed about it. I can't stand that we are going to have a waiting room full of people potentially without masks. I can't stand that we STILL have to tell people in the waiting room who come in without a mask that they need to wear one to protect the pregnant women in the waiting room. If I hear one more time, "I'll be okay if I get it"...how can you be so stupid as to not realise it's to stop you spreading it to people who potentially WON'T be alright if they get it. 

That's exactly how I feel about other clinically vulnerable people too, not just my pregnant ladies. It's absolutely not Freedom Day for those people, they will be back in self isolation to avoid the people who choose not to wear a mask inside a shop/on a bus or wherever. 

Honestly. I don't know what to think about it all.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Masks should still be mandatory in a medical centre, hospital etc.

By their very nature they will be occupied by vulnerable people and the staff have no escape from the often badly ventilated environment.

They should have held off at least a month before changing any rules surrounding mask wearing in public indoor spaces imo.


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> I thought I'd report back to say that I emailed my MP and got a response today to say it was noted, what data he and the House expect and he shared my concerns.
> 
> I do feel it's worth doing, we did voted for them to work for us and given there's so little we can do like march, perhaps a torrent of emails might sway opinion or make it more known. Worth a go, takes a few mins, could be all the difference.


Good to hear you got a response.

I'd like to email mine but no idea what to say.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> No point with mine, I doubt she has answered a single query from the constituents since she was parachuted into the seat


Soz, that's really annoying. We're really spoilt with ours I must say.


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> Good to hear you got a response.
> 
> I'd like to email mine but no idea what to say.


I simply said that I'm writing from his constituency to say I am worried and scared by the approach that the government are taking to relaxation of the rules around Covid (quoted yesterday's' figure) and wanted him to register my objection in case there was any opportunity for the public to have a recognised opinion.

I'm sure he had more eloquent words with lots more big words but I figured it did what it said! Does that help?


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I feel so stressed about it. I can't stand that we are going to have a waiting room full of people potentially without masks. I can't stand that we STILL have to tell people in the waiting room who come in without a mask that they need to wear one to protect the pregnant women in the waiting room. If I hear one more time, "I'll be okay if I get it"...how can you be so stupid as to not realise it's to stop you spreading it to people who potentially WON'T be alright if they get it.
> 
> That's exactly how I feel about other clinically vulnerable people too, not just my pregnant ladies. It's absolutely not Freedom Day for those people, they will be back in self isolation to avoid the people who choose not to wear a mask inside a shop/on a bus or wherever.
> 
> Honestly. I don't know what to think about it all.


I thought of you and my sis in law who's been asked to go back to her hospital as occupational health having shielded from the start due to immune issues ((hugs))


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> I simply said that I'm writing from his constituency to say I am worried and scared by the approach that the government are taking to relaxation of the rules around Covid (quoted yesterday's' figure) and wanted him to register my objection in case there was any opportunity for the public to have a recognised opinion.
> 
> I'm sure he had more eloquent words with lots more big words but I figured it did what it said! Does that help?


Yes, that helps, thank you.


----------



## willa

I’m very anxious about this unlocking . What on earth is Boris doing, with this “ Big Bang unlocking “ 
Gives me anxiety thinking about it.


----------



## StormyThai

MollySmith said:


> Soz, that's really annoying. We're really spoilt with ours I must say.


As mine is the wonderful Mat Hancock it's a bit pointless emailing him...I think that he may be a tad busy with other things at the moment


----------



## Magyarmum

Mrs Funkin said:


> I feel so stressed about it. I can't stand that we are going to have a waiting room full of people potentially without masks. I can't stand that we STILL have to tell people in the waiting room who come in without a mask that they need to wear one to protect the pregnant women in the waiting room. If I hear one more time, "I'll be okay if I get it"...how can you be so stupid as to not realise it's to stop you spreading it to people who potentially WON'T be alright if they get it.
> 
> That's exactly how I feel about other clinically vulnerable people too, not just my pregnant ladies. It's absolutely not Freedom Day for those people, they will be back in self isolation to avoid the people who choose not to wear a mask inside a shop/on a bus or wherever.
> 
> Honestly. I don't know what to think about it all.


I can really understand why you're so worried.

Like the UK Hungary has lifted restrictions on mask wearing except in hospitals or doctor's surgeries where wearing one is till mandatory.

Far more sensible IMO.


----------



## Cully

As far as I'm concerned this opening up will not give me any more freedom, quite the opposite in fact.
I can't make the comments I want as political comments are frowned on in this thread.


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> I'm very anxious about this unlocking . What on earth is Boris doing, with this " Big Bang unlocking "
> Gives me anxiety thinking about it.


In fairness, a lot of restrictions have already gone out of the window. I've been places where no-one is wearing a mask apart from the people I'm with.

But I really don't get the public transport thing. I really hope they have a rethink.


----------



## Boxer123

Cully said:


> As far as I'm concerned this opening up will not give me any more freedom, quite the opposite in fact.
> I can't make the comments I want as political comments are frowned on in this thread.


I think the government have gone mad and given up. The new health secretary saying we may have 100000 cases a day. Still worrying about holidays when let's face it most of Europe won't want us. Why are holidays so important? You didn't see people in WW2 taking a two week break in Ibiza.

Masks I find quite comfortable and think we should keep. If you look at countries like China they naturally mask up why can't we ? Especially in hospital settings and public transport.

I've got my six week summer break coming up and have no plans except running and dog walking because I feel to anxious.


----------



## StormyThai

Cully said:


> As far as I'm concerned this opening up will not give me any more freedom, quite the opposite in fact.
> I can't make the comments I want as political comments are frowned on in this thread.


You're not alone 
I was starting to become more comfortable out in public and was even considering grabbing the bus back from town one morning....I'll be locking myself down again now and start the worry about my OH who is a taxi driver.

I can understand opening things up more....I can even understand Javid pushing to open faster...what I can't understand is this want to get rid of masks as quickly as possible BEFORE finding out what happens when we open up fully 
I've honestly struggled to understand most peoples hatred of a simple fabric covering...but this need to drop them ASAP is worrying me -sigh-


----------



## MilleD

The only slightly promising thing I can see in all this is that currently, the hospitalisations and deaths are not following the case numbers like they did in the first two waves.


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> The only slightly promising thing I can see in all this is that currently, the hospitalisations and deaths are not following the case numbers like they did in the first two waves.
> 
> View attachment 471840


True but the theory is the more it spreads the more it mutates so we might end up in a situation where the vaccine isn't effective.


----------



## simplysardonic

Boxer123 said:


> I think the government have gone mad and given up. The new health secretary saying we may have 100000 cases a day. Still worrying about holidays when let's face it most of Europe won't want us. Why are holidays so important? You didn't see people in WW2 taking a two week break in Ibiza.
> 
> Masks I find quite comfortable and think we should keep. If you look at countries like China they naturally mask up why can't we ? Especially in hospital settings and public transport.
> 
> I've got my six week summer break coming up and have no plans except running and dog walking because I feel to anxious.


I honestly don't peoples' obsession with holidays, although as a child I travelled extensively & enjoyed it I haven't had an actual holiday in 30 years & don't really have any desire to, apart from to visit Chernobyl at some point.

The idea of a sweaty poolside, beach or clubbing holiday in some soulless hotel complex, which seem to be the ones everyone is anxious to get back to, is my idea if existential hell.

I'm dreading my area come the 19th, it's already chocka with touristshere so gods know what it will be like when all the 'cram them in tight' places open up.

As for social distancing, no one seems to be bothering any more but I'll carry on, I did it pre pandemic anyway, I don't like strangers in my personal 'bubble'.


----------



## StormyThai

Well my dad is going in for yet another test...he has had it in the beginning and is fully vaccinated, but as cases have gone up way over 2000% in Falmouth due to many flocking to the coast, and the stupid summit he has been advised to get checked because he lost his sense of taste in the last day or two.

The selfishness of many people is shining through and it sucks!


----------



## Happy Paws2

simplysardonic said:


> I honestly don't peoples' obsession with holidays, although as a child I travelled extensively & enjoyed it I haven't had an actual holiday in 30 years & don't really have any desire to, apart from to visit Chernobyl at some point.
> 
> The idea of a sweaty poolside, beach or clubbing holiday in some soulless hotel complex, which seem to be the ones everyone is anxious to get back to, is my idea if existential hell.
> 
> I'm dreading my area come the 19th, it's already chocka with touristshere so gods know what it will be like when all the 'cram them in tight' places open up.
> 
> As for social distancing, no one seems to be bothering any more but I'll carry on, I did it pre pandemic anyway, I don't like strangers in my personal 'bubble'.


I'm with you the last holiday we had was in 2009 in the late summer, I hated holidays in July and August when the mad crowds were around. I've never seen the point of lying on a beach frying myself with hundreds of other people all crowded together.

Now with the aftermath of Covid even going to the shops the thought frightens me, I've got used to my own space I don't want people getting to close to me and not wearing a mask. I'll be going out less after the 19th than I do now.

I do see we have to start opening up again up we should still have social distancing and wearing masks in shops, other crowded places and on public transport.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm with you the last holiday we had was in 2009 in the late summer, I hated holidays in July and August when the mad crowds were around. I've never seen the point of lying on a beach frying myself with hundreds of other people all crowded together.
> 
> Now with the aftermath of Covid even going to the shops the thought frightens me, I've got used to my own space I don't want people getting to close to me and not wearing a mask. I'll be going out less after the 19th than I do now.
> 
> I do see we have to start opening up again up we should still have social distancing and wearing masks in shops, other crowded places and on public transport.


Exactly we have to open up but it just seems, 'freedom day' is a free for all. Australia locked down Sydney with 50 cases. We have 30000 and shrug.


----------



## simplysardonic

Boxer123 said:


> Exactly we have to open up but it just seems, 'freedom day' is a free for all. Australia locked down Sydney with 50 cases. We have 30000 and shrug.


I think we can thank both the football industry & Matt Hancock for so many people deciding to say to hell with the rules.


----------



## Isolette

I am in Ireland and a friend on Achill Island is up in the night on the internet as there are so many tourists they cannot get online in the day. Horrible. And dangerous now although the West Coast is almost covid free AT PRESENT. 

My last holiday was back in the eighties; a roadtrip across France. But life now is one long holiday...


----------



## MilleD

I can't begrudge people wanting to go on holiday, for some it's a reprieve from the sh!t they live everyday.

I really enjoy them when I'm on one, but hate packing and all the associated stress (most is in my head, but still...).


----------



## Happy Paws2

I watch the football last night not many wearing masks and the thought of all those germs in the air and tonight when England play it's going to worse 60.000 people together and with Wimbledon almost full a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm dreading the Autumn when we find out if freedom has worked or not as the case may be.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I can't begrudge people wanting to go on holiday, for some it's a reprieve from the sh!t they live everyday.
> 
> I really enjoy them when I'm on one, but hate packing and all the associated stress (most is in my head, but still...).


Ordinarily, I agree … each to their own … I just can't understand why people think it's worth the risk.

Though an eminent doctor stated the other day that so long as travellers were double vaccinated it should be ok … though he thought masks on board was prudent.

We did go away in June, but stayed not far from home in the UK, in self catering and continued to follow all the rules.

The thought of sitting in a crowded plane, especially without mandatory masks, fills me with dread.

Not sure when I'll feel safe enough to visit my sister, niece and great niece who live abroad


----------



## ForestWomble

I'm calling 'Freedom day' 'Lockdown day', it's taken me a long time to start to feel comfortable having my parents visit and to go out during the day rather than only while dark, think I'll be going back to only going out in the dark and not sure how I feel about seeing my parents.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Wish the media would stop calling it Freedom Day.


----------



## Siskin

Over 32,000 new positive cases today.
My son phoned to say his elderly and vaccinated neighbour has tested positive. I hope he will be ok


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> Over 32,000 new positive cases today.
> My son phoned to say his elderly and vaccinated neighbour has tested positive. I hope he will be ok


Hopefully being vaccinated will mean he won't get it as badly as he would if he wasn't, it's a worry though.

Son's test came back negative today but he still has to iso for 10 days, as does daughter's partner who works in a care home. I'm carrying on with my work but informing my clients so they can make an informed choice, & taking extra precautions like meeting outside, santising frequently & always wearing a mask.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> Masks I find quite comfortable and think we should keep.


To be honest, I rather liked them in the cold weather as they kept my face warm if there was a a cold wind! Even now, I quite often forget to take mine off once I'm off the tube/bus/out of a shop or whatever, unless I have to speak to someone, then I realise they are struggling to hear me so I take it off.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Wish the media would stop calling it Freedom Day.


To be honest, I cringe and want to scream every time I hear or read Covid lingo: road map, bubble, new normal, flattening the curve, social distancing, immunocompromised etc etc. - and yes, now we have ''Freedom Day''. Just say it as it is, we can take it!
@Siskin: 32,000 sounds like loads to me too; my maths is not good, but that must be a million a month (give or take . . . )?


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> Well my dad is going in for yet another test...he has had it in the beginning and is fully vaccinated, but as cases have gone up way over 2000% in Falmouth due to many flocking to the coast, and the stupid summit he has been advised to get checked because he lost his sense of taste in the last day or two.
> 
> The selfishness of many people is shining through and it sucks!


I hope he's okay


----------



## MollySmith

I’m much the same I think as most here. Ordered a badge to ask people to distance, better masks and getting a bigger veg box so I don’t have to go out. I’m going back to how I acted in March 2020. Lots of people I know are.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Wish the media would stop calling it Freedom Day.


I had my first email from The Old Bicycle Shop, a pub/restaurant in Cambridge titled 'Freedom Day'. Completely disregards that so many have lost loved ones and it's anything but freedom. I'm appalled and it puts me off completely.


----------



## margy

Oh dear my daughter has just txt me she's had to have a test today as has a sore throat and cough. She's a nurse. She will find out the result tomorrow. Trouble is I was close to her at the wkend as we looked after her daughter and we are going to see our sons family this wkend in the Midlands. Fingers crossed it's negative or I won't be able to go to see my son who I haven't seen for a year.


----------



## rona

margy said:


> Oh dear my daughter has just txt me she's had to have a test today as has a sore throat and cough. She's a nurse. She will find out the result tomorrow. Trouble is I was close to her at the wkend as we looked after her daughter and we are going to see our sons family this wkend in the Midlands. Fingers crossed it's negative or I won't be able to go to see my son who I haven't seen for a year.


Hope she gets a negative result.

I gather that over the last two weeks, men are having at least 30% higher positive results, they think due to the football 

How many are ignoring the symptoms?


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Hope she gets a negative result.
> 
> I gather that over the last two weeks, men are having at least 30% higher positive results, they think due to the football
> 
> How many are ignoring the symptoms?


Especially as the symptoms that are being seen with the variant are different to the original. Instead of a cough stem, the symptoms are more like that of a cold


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Hope she gets a negative result.
> 
> I gather that over the last two weeks, men are having at least 30% higher positive results, they think due to the football
> 
> How many are ignoring the symptoms?


I read that cases are doubling daily because of increased (football) socialising - and it's not over yet. God help us . . .


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> I read that cases are doubling daily because of increased (football) socialising - and it's not over yet. God help us . . .


I went to the Doctors this morning for a blood and the staff there are really worried about the crowds at the football and the tennis, they also said that anyone going to the surgery after the 19th will still have to wear a mask and social distance.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I read that cases are doubling daily because of increased (football) socialising - and it's not over yet. God help us . . .


I'm watching the cases here in Hungary. So far so good, but with the relaxation of social distancing and mask wearing plus football crowds I don't think it'll be long before they're on the rise again.


----------



## Isolette

Magyarmum said:


> I'm watching the cases here in Hungary. So far so good, but with the relaxation of social distancing and mask wearing plus football crowds I don't think it'll be long before they're on the rise again.


covid has not finished with us by a long way and people are not helping combat it. As we went into strict lockdown here in Ireland as soon as it hit, we were spared the huge numbers - but then of course folk started saying it was not dangerous and words like scandemic started circulating. And we share a land border with the UK, and there is no way to secure that border; I used to live near there and there are myriad back lanes and the only way you know which country you are in is the colour of th epost boxes red in the UK, green here.


----------



## HarlequinCat

But surely if you have been double vaccinated you are protected against serious illness and death. The cases are very high but the hospitalisations and deaths have not followed this. 
Where I'm living the are about 200 cases a day, but in the past 2 months there has not been one covid related death! Hospitalisations aren't high either. 
There will be no zero covid. That is impossible. I think covid deaths in the country account for 1%. That is tiny! I think more people died from flu and pneumonia than with covid in June.

I'm not even suggesting people go crazy and socialise in huge groups without masks. But the restrictions have adversely affected many people. Mentally and physically. I know I wore masks before most people, but now I am at the point where the masks just make me anxious. Especially in the warmer weather. To be honest if I go in a shop I only pop in quick then have to leave because the mask starts the anxiety.

I think a lot of people are worn down and tired of restrictions. Especially after being told it's only until the vulnerable have been vaccinated, then it was over 50s, then it was adults..... It was only meant to take the pressure off the NHS


----------



## margy

I think the pressure on the NHS now is staff having to self isolate through catching the virus, at a time when they are short staffed through them taking long overdue holidays.
Thankfully my daughter has just txt me to say her result is negative.


----------



## Isolette

HarlequinCat said:


> But surely if you have been double vaccinated you are protected against serious illness and death. The cases are very high but the hospitalisations and deaths have not followed this.
> Where I'm living the are about 200 cases a day, but in the past 2 months there has not been one covid related death! Hospitalisations aren't high either.
> There will be no zero covid. That is impossible. I think covid deaths in the country account for 1%. That is tiny! I think more people died from flu and pneumonia than with covid in June.
> 
> If you have had a loved one die of covid you will see it differently. Compassion please.We have. More than one. And there is also eg Long Covid. And this is all with restrictions. Just letting it rip ? Over three million deaths wordwide from covid - and that is the ones that were recorded. In poorer countries that will be many more.


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> But surely if you have been double vaccinated you are protected against serious illness and death. The cases are very high but the hospitalisations and deaths have not followed this.
> Where I'm living the are about 200 cases a day, but in the past 2 months there has not been one covid related death! Hospitalisations aren't high either.
> There will be no zero covid. That is impossible. I think covid deaths in the country account for 1%. That is tiny! I think more people died from flu and pneumonia than with covid in June.
> 
> I'm not even suggesting people go crazy and socialise in huge groups without masks. But the restrictions have adversely affected many people. Mentally and physically. I know I wore masks before most people, but now I am at the point where the masks just make me anxious. Especially in the warmer weather. To be honest if I go in a shop I only pop in quick then have to leave because the mask starts the anxiety.
> 
> I think a lot of people are worn down and tired of restrictions. Especially after being told it's only until the vulnerable have been vaccinated, then it was over 50s, then it was adults..... It was only meant to take the pressure off the NHS


I agree with this I think. The negative impacts on everything continuing locked down are huge.

I do think that masks on public transport and in medical environments should continue though.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Yes, I realise this. And it is bad for the ones who have died.

The number who have died since the vaccinations is a fraction to the amount before. Vaccination has changed the relationship between catching covid and dying from it 
I am not encouraging people to go rampant. New data says the people catching it now are mainly the unvaccinated. So young people in the main who have a very good immune system. 
What about the thousands who have died of cancer because they were too scared to go to hospital or had their appointments postponed due to lockdowns etc. They deserve compassion too.... Or people with heart disease.

I do not need to be told to have compassion


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> I agree with this I think. The negative impacts on everything continuing locked down are huge.
> 
> I do think that masks on public transport and in medical environments should continue though.


Oh yes for sure. I agree masks need to be used in certain crowded places and medical settings


----------



## Isolette

sigh


----------



## HarlequinCat

Isolette said:


> sigh


Everyone has their own opinions. A condescending sigh is a little unnecessary. I have seen plenty of people not wearing masks in shops now. I still do though. 
A lot of people have already had enough.

When the deaths and infections were high I did all I could to sanitise and not pass anything on. Me nor my family have caught it because we were so careful. Things change


----------



## Jobeth

HarlequinCat said:


> Oh yes for sure. I agree masks need to be used in certain crowded places and medical settings


Whilst I was waiting for my hospital appointment in less than half an hour there were 5 people not wearing masks although one had the sunflower lanyard. There were also 3 nurses not wearing them properly. No one was cleaning the chairs in between use and I bet the hand sanitiser will last for a year considering how many were actually using it. I changed my clothes the moment I got home!


----------



## rona

HarlequinCat said:


> ! Hospitalisations aren't high either.


They are now running at approx 3500 a week and rising............I don't know how that compares to flu!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Jobeth said:


> Whilst I was waiting for my hospital appointment in less than half an hour there were 5 people not wearing masks although one had the sunflower lanyard. There were also 3 nurses not wearing them properly. No one was cleaning the chairs in between use and I bet the hand sanitiser will last for a year considering how many were actually using it. I changed my clothes the moment I got home!


It's so difficult though to keep on top of it. I spend a fair bit of time each day asking people to put their mask on properly/to wear one (in my department the requirement is that everyone wears a mask or face shield, even if you have a lanyard, we simply will not risk our pregnant women's health). We sadly don't have the numbers of staff to have someone in the waiting room permanently to clean each chair as people leave it. That's what we need but it just wasn't going to happen, so we do the best we can. So many things could have been improved if we'd had an extra person or two.

As for nurses not wearing their masks properly, there's simply no excuse for that. I'd have had to say something. If I wasn't wearing my PPE properly I'd expect to be told.


----------



## margy

Jobeth said:


> Whilst I was waiting for my hospital appointment in less than half an hour there were 5 people not wearing masks although one had the sunflower lanyard. There were also 3 nurses not wearing them properly. No one was cleaning the chairs in between use and I bet the hand sanitiser will last for a year considering how many were actually using it. I changed my clothes the moment I got home!


While I was going for physio at the hospital I have to say they were very diligent. They cleaned my chair and asked me to use the hand sanitizer. They all wore masks and so did I.


----------



## Cleo38

HarlequinCat said:


> Everyone has their own opinions. A condescending sigh is a little unnecessary. I have seen plenty of people not wearing masks in shops now. I still do though.
> A lot of people have already had enough.
> 
> When the deaths and infections were high I did all I could to sanitise and not pass anything on. Me nor my family have caught it because we were so careful. Things change


I went to London today & most people were wearing masks. The tube coming home was packed & hot so wearing a mask wasn't very comfortable. Not that I go to London alot but I did question whether I would wear it if I didn't have to.

We went for lunch & it seems ridiculous to go in to restaurants wearing a mask then as soon as you sit down you take it off to eat. Doesn't seem much point tbh but I do it because it's what the establishment required. I probably wouldn't if they didn't deem it necessary


----------



## Cully

I think the problem with masks sometimes is that they just don't fit well enough.
Look at how many times you see someone needing to adjust their mask, usually because it's slipped off their nose.
When both your hands are occupied it's not always easy to fix your mask. It's annoying, but I do understand.
I'm appalled at the number of people walking around wearing masks that gape open at the side, or move alarmingly up and down as they talk.
Most of those with patterns or pictures on are just a fashion item and are not covid safe and are generally made for much larger faces. I don't think buyers are aware of that ( or don't care).


----------



## Jobeth

margy said:


> While I was going for physio at the hospital I have to say they were very diligent. They cleaned my chair and asked me to use the hand sanitizer. They all wore masks and so did I.


That's how it should be and I'm so careful whilst working with children. I'm used to being around people that don't have to wear masks but I was irritated by the lack of care shown in general.


----------



## StormyThai

Cully said:


> I think the problem with masks sometimes is that they just don't fit well enough.


Yeah I agree with this...I have a very small head for an adult (I have to have child sized hats) so I spent a while finding the right fit and ended up having to go with one with adjustable ear loops to get the best fit possible so that it was comfortable on my face, didn't move around and had a filter pocket so that it was covid safe (and with the filter the fabric doesn't try to disappear up your nose or into your mouth when you breath :Hilarious)

I do wonder if people spent more time getting a mask that actually fits properly they wouldn't be so quick to rip them off. I can wear mine during training for well over an hour and unless it is really hot it doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## HarlequinCat

StormyThai said:


> Yeah I agree with this...I have a very small head for an adult (I have to have child sized hats) so I spent a while finding the right fit and ended up having to go with one with adjustable ear loops to get the best fit possible so that it was comfortable on my face, didn't move around and had a filter pocket so that it was covid safe (and with the filter the fabric doesn't try to disappear up your nose or into your mouth when you breath :Hilarious)
> 
> I do wonder if people spent more time getting a mask that actually fits properly they wouldn't be so quick to rip them off. I can wear mine during training for well over an hour and unless it is really hot it doesn't bother me at all.


I think just everyone is different. I have child size masks because they are the only ones that fit . They fit with no gaps or sagging but still feel like I can't get enough air at times. It just feels confining and claustrophobic. It's a reason why I don't like turtle necks or scarfs, too restrictive feeling


----------



## HarlequinCat

margy said:


> While I was going for physio at the hospital I have to say they were very diligent. They cleaned my chair and asked me to use the hand sanitizer. They all wore masks and so did I.


I've been to the dentist a few times recently, and they are very good with their cleaning. They wipe down the chairs after every patient etc, and have a special air filter thingy that cleans the air. They remind you to put the mask on before leaving the room and have hand sanitiser everywhere.


----------



## Cully

I was l


StormyThai said:


> Yeah I agree with this...I have a very small head for an adult (I have to have child sized hats) so I spent a while finding the right fit and ended up having to go with one with adjustable ear loops to get the best fit possible so that it was comfortable on my face, didn't move around and had a filter pocket so that it was covid safe (and with the filter the fabric doesn't try to disappear up your nose or into your mouth when you breath :Hilarious)
> 
> I do wonder if people spent more time getting a mask that actually fits properly they wouldn't be so quick to rip them off. I can wear mine during training for well over an hour and unless it is really hot it doesn't bother me at all.


I suppose I was lucky as I managed early on to find masks which are 3 layered and a good fit. I bought around 12 and have used them ever since. I just put a knot in the elastic so the are a nice snug fit.


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> requirement is that everyone wears a mask or face shield,


My local shop has a sign on the door saying ''No admittance without face covering'' and people stop at the door and comply; the guy who owns it is sitting behind the counter without a mask . . .


----------



## StormyThai

I found the child sized masks felt restrictive too, they were ok for a while but after wearing one for any length of time it became uncomfortable. Because I have had to wear mine for long periods and I don't like things rubbing or moving I made it a priority to find a mask that fit me comfortably, which is why I opted for adjustable ear loops and when I found the one that fit the best (I went through 4 or 5 different types of masks before I found the best one) I ordered several so that I had enough.
I did all this before masks became mandatory so there wasn't the shortage of good masks, I could take my time finding the best one for me.

I just feel that if more people spent time finding the right mask, rather than the prettiest or the cheapest (I had to by my MIL a suitable mask as she was more than happy to keep using the disposable mask that was given to her at the pharmacy in first lockdown) then less people would be in a rush to get rid of something that helps reduce spreading viral illnesses in enclosed spaces. Please don't think that I am looking down on anyone that chooses to not wear a mask in places that don't require them...it's just a general thought, that's all.


----------



## O2.0

HarlequinCat said:


> But surely if you have been double vaccinated you are protected against serious illness and death.


This. 
I don't know what the vaccine rates in the UK are, but here in the US anyone who wants to get vaccinated can - for free. Which is huge for us considering both kids also had to get a required meningitis vaccine before going to university which was $300 each before insurance coverage. Go figure, the colleges require meningitis vaccine but don't require a covid vaccine - though unvaccinated students have to get tested once a month and have a negative test before moving in to the dormitories.

So if the vaccine works - which it does, it makes sense to ease mask requirements. We already have way too many people suspicious of the vaccine, if we trust the vaccine, we have to be able to say that vaccinated people don't need to wear a mask, because if we don't you have the skeptics wondering why the mask requirement if the vaccine is so effective.

The moderna and pfizer vaccines is at least 95% effective, which is astonishingly high. We need to show that we trust the vaccine. In the US the biggest problem right now is vaccine hesitancy and outright anti vaccine sentiments and of course all sorts of conspiracies around the vaccine.


----------



## HarlequinCat

O2.0 said:


> This.
> I don't know what the vaccine rates in the UK are, but here in the US anyone who wants to get vaccinated can - for free. Which is huge for us considering both kids also had to get a required meningitis vaccine before going to university which was $300 each before insurance coverage. Go figure, the colleges require meningitis vaccine but don't require a covid vaccine - though unvaccinated students have to get tested once a month and have a negative test before moving in to the dormitories.
> 
> So if the vaccine works - which it does, it makes sense to ease mask requirements. We already have way too many people suspicious of the vaccine, if we trust the vaccine, we have to be able to say that vaccinated people don't need to wear a mask, because if we don't you have the skeptics wondering why the mask requirement if the vaccine is so effective.
> 
> The moderna and pfizer vaccines is at least 95% effective, which is astonishingly high. We need to show that we trust the vaccine. In the US the biggest problem right now is vaccine hesitancy and outright anti vaccine sentiments and of course all sorts of conspiracies around the vaccine.


You put it so much better than I could . 
I'm sure vaccine uptake has been about 90 % in each age group and I will receive my second in a couple of weeks and I'm early 30s.
There is about 30, 000 infections a day and about 500 hospitalisations a day with a daily death rate of about 35. A lot of those hospitalisations or most of them are unvaccinated. 
The deaths are counted as deaths within 28 days of catching covid.

There is now hesitancy within the younger age groups to be vaccinated because of the news stories of people having the Pfizer jab and inflammation in the heart. Even though this is a rare side effect

I just feel sooner or later we are going to have to just get used to living with covid. And try to be as normal as possible.


----------



## Cleo38

HarlequinCat said:


> I think just everyone is different. I have child size masks because they are the only ones that fit . They fit with no gaps or sagging but still feel like I can't get enough air at times. *It just feels confining and claustrophobic. It's a reason why I don't like turtle necks or scarfs, too restrictive feeling*


Exactly this! I hate wearing things round my neck/on my face. It's not so bad in winter but in summer it feels unbearable. I am one of those people who get hot really easily & clothing, etc really irritates me when I'm like this. I was fine wearing a mask in the colder months but now it's starting to irritate me & I feel like I can't breathe at times.

Yesterday I wore one for 2hrs as I had to get a train then go through Kings Cross to the tube. I couldn't wait to get it off when I go out in to the open


----------



## simplysardonic

@Cleo38 I can't say I'm a fan of masks at all, as someone who overheats easily anyway I've ended up feeling extremely unwell on really hot days while wearing one.

I also struggle with the restrictive feeling of anything on my face or neck like you.

I've considered getting an exemption lanyard, just for the warmer weather but I worry that I will come across as someone doing it to be awkward or prove a point, it doesn't feel like a valid enough reason when others have much more serious health issues.


----------



## Cleo38

simplysardonic said:


> @Cleo38 I can't say I'm a fan of masks at all, as someone who overheats easily anyway I've ended up feeling extremely unwell on really hot days while wearing one.
> 
> I also struggle with the restrictive feeling of anything on my face or neck like you.
> 
> I've considered getting an exemption lanyard, just for the warmer weather but I worry that I will come across as someone doing it to be awkward or prove a point, it doesn't feel like a valid enough reason when others have much more serious health issues.


I still have nightmares of my mum forcing to me to wear roll neck jumpers when I was little. I used to spend the whole day pulling the neck bit out so it didn't touch me!


----------



## simplysardonic

Cleo38 said:


> I still have nightmares of my mum forcing to me to wear roll neck jumpers when I was little. I used to spend the whole day pulling the neck bit out so it didn't touch me!


Ugh yes!

And that era's preferred materials for rollnecks were all horribly itchy too.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I don’t get hot and bothered at all in my polyester uniform, face mask, visor, apron and gloves in a hot hospital for ten hours a day. Nope. 

Oh. Hang on…

   

(I do of course realise that some folk cannot wear a mask, I actually am perfectly fine with it all except I do get boiling hot)


----------



## HarlequinCat

Mrs Funkin said:


> I don't get hot and bothered at all in my polyester uniform, face mask, visor, apron and gloves in a hot hospital for ten hours a day. Nope.
> 
> Oh. Hang on…
> 
> 
> 
> (I do of course realise that some folk cannot wear a mask, I actually am perfectly fine with it all except I do get boiling hot)


I can imagine how hard that must be, especially in warm weather!


----------



## MollySmith

I thought the issue with double vaccines is the new variants and that the escalation of those because of the BlowJo’s risk taking means the vaccines may not provide as much protection as thought? 

Either way this thread is a clear example of how confused we are and why the appallingly named freedom day is a horrible mistake. Trust in the public... the same who stockpiled pasta with no regard for nurses, doctors or key workers or those using food banks? The people who bought loo rolls when there was no evidence of needing them for Covid. Really?!


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> I still have nightmares of my mum forcing to me to wear roll neck jumpers when I was little. I used to spend the whole day pulling the neck bit out so it didn't touch me!


I've used Seasalt handy bands and a brand called Dress Code shirts which sell masks which are very soft. I hate anything round my neck, I feel so constricted with dyspraxia. I can't even wear a watch!


----------



## simplysardonic

MollySmith said:


> I've used Seasalt handy bands and a brand called Dress Code shirts which sell masks which are very soft. I hate anything round my neck, I feel so constricted with dyspraxia. *I can't even wear a watch!*


I don't wear watches, or jewellery, not even my wedding ring, even thought I have some gorgeous items I've collected or inherited over the years, my daughter borrows a lot of them to wear.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I hate anything tight round my neck it make me feel sick I do wear a very loose chain I've had for nearly thirty years hardly ever take it off. I do wear rings sometimes and I haven't worn a watch since I've had my first mobile phone over twenty years ago.


----------



## ForestWomble

I'm another who hates anything tight around my neck, I really struggled with the school uniform as we had to always have the top button done up on our blouse and we had to wear a tie, I felt like I was suffocating.
Can't wear a watch as my wrist always swells and I'm allergic to gold and other metals rings etc are made from.


----------



## MollySmith

On Twitter via All The Citizens.

FULL EMERGENCY STATEMENT: response to July 19 'unscientific & unethical' govt plan


----------



## Siskin

Found this on FB


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> Found this on FB
> 
> View attachment 472376


Great . . really sounds like something to look forward to (especially the green vomit!). Can't wait.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm really not looking forward to next week, the pub over the road has changed hands and hoping to reopen next week first time since last March, it was a pain in the butt before so I'm dreading what it will be like once they open it again.


----------



## Lurcherlad

My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.

Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.

Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.

It’s 10 days of being waited on! 

Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.

OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we’re isolating too.

DS was booked for a jab but hasn’t had it yet.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


How awful; I hope he's feeling better now - can't work out what age groups are and aren't being done. A few weeks ago (think it was May Bank Holiday) Twickenham Stadium was used as a walk-in vaccination centre and pretty sure it was for 18-25-year-olds. It was a great success, except that it was such a success that they ran out of vaccine - but better than wasting it, I guess


----------



## Lurcherlad

He could have had it done sooner but no amount of nagging from his mum …..


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we're isolating too.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


I hope your son feels better soon, and you and your OH don't become infected.

My granddaughter who's also 24 has already had both jabs, but when she was in Edinburgh staying with her Gran.


----------



## Siskin

Very worrying times for you @Lurcherlad, I hope your son is ok and gets over it quickly and you and your OH keep well


----------



## Happy Paws2

Hope your son feels better soon.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Either way this thread is a clear example of how confused we are and why the appallingly named freedom day is a horrible mistake. Trust in the public... the same who stockpiled pasta with no regard for nurses, doctors or key workers or those using food banks? The people who bought loo rolls when there was no evidence of needing them for Covid. Really?!


Absolutely no idea what you mean!!!


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Found this on FB
> 
> View attachment 472376


I have half of those because of a bad tooth, hayfever and running.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I think the problem with masks sometimes is that they just don't fit well enough.
> Look at how many times you see someone needing to adjust their mask, usually because it's slipped off their nose.
> When both your hands are occupied it's not always easy to fix your mask. It's annoying, but I do understand.
> I'm appalled at the number of people walking around wearing masks that gape open at the side, or move alarmingly up and down as they talk.
> Most of those with patterns or pictures on are just a fashion item and are not covid safe and are generally made for much larger faces. I don't think buyers are aware of that ( or don't care).


This is why I've been making my own. Done 3 different sizes for people depending on the size of their face. And don't seem to have the problem of them slipping down because of the shape.

Yes, they aren't a medical barrier, but at least not many droplets escape over the top or around the sides.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Found this on FB
> 
> View attachment 472376


According to that, I've had covid for 30 years. (Maybe I started this pandemic).


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Absolutely no idea what you mean!!!











Is he confessing or just boasting?


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Is he confessing or just boasting?


I have absolutely no idea!


----------



## simplysardonic

Cully said:


> Is he confessing or just boasting?


Nah, he's stockpiling.


----------



## Cully

simplysardonic said:


> Nah, he's stockpiling.


:Yuck:Vomit


----------



## Happy Paws2

[QUOTE="MollySmith, post: 1065792812, member: 1322805"
Either way this thread is a clear example of how confused we are and why the appallingly named freedom day is a horrible mistake.* Trust in the public.*.. the same who stockpiled pasta with no regard for nurses, doctors or key workers or those using food banks? The people who bought loo rolls when there was no evidence of needing them for Covid. Really?![/QUOTE]

That's just why I'm worried, I been feeling fairly safe going out once a week for the last month or so, now I'm starting to worry, I don't want people in my personal space I've got use to have space around me and the thought of going to Sainsbury's and no one wearing a mask terrifies me.


----------



## Happy Paws2

simplysardonic said:


> Nah, he's stockpiling.


Stop it, I nearly choked


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> [QUOTE="MollySmith, post: 1065792812, member: 1322805"
> Either way this thread is a clear example of how confused we are and why the appallingly named freedom day is a horrible mistake.* Trust in the public.*.. the same who stockpiled pasta with no regard for nurses, doctors or key workers or those using food banks? The people who bought loo rolls when there was no evidence of needing them for Covid. Really?!


That's just why I'm worried, I been feeling fairly safe going out once a week for the last month or so, now I'm starting to worry, I don't want people in my personal space I've got use to have space around me and the thought of going to Sainsbury's and no one wearing a mask terrifies me.[/QUOTE]

Yes I agree, for me it's going to mean taking steps backwards. Cheers Boris, enjoy you pint down the pub.


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we're isolating too.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


Oh sorry to hear that  my son tested neg throughout his isolation (after the head chef tested positive) & finally went back to work yesterday.


----------



## MilleD

I've been told by the covid app that I need to self isolate.

B*gger, was doing well getting back into running again.....


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I have half of those because of a bad tooth, hayfever and running.


I know, I have several symptoms for much the same reasons.
It's possible that the Delta variant is spreading so easily currently is that most people don't know about these new symptoms which are so different from the original covid. The symptoms are more like a summer cold or hay fever.

My SIL is part of the volunteer force at things like marshalling at vaccination stations and regularly does covid tests for this. She came to see me last week and I ended up contacting her this week to see if she had tested recently as I had started coughing a bit over the weekend. Pleased to hear that she had and it was negative. I assume it's hay fever as the pollen count is very high currently. Having recently come out of hospital I was concerned I could have picked it up there although all the patients were regularly tested. Cough has almost gone and feel ok


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I've been told by the covid app that I need to self isolate.
> 
> B*gger, was doing well getting back into running again.....


Oh no, how annoying. Can't you run but just social distance yourself?


----------



## Cully

Really pleased my son was able to bring his 2nd jab forward by 2 weeks. Glad all the jabbing in our family is done with now. Apart from children.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Oh no, how annoying. Can't you run but just social distance yourself?


I could, I never see anyone if I go out early enough.


----------



## HarlequinCat

simplysardonic said:


> Nah, he's stockpiling.


You know when you get a creme egg and you notice a little tiny bit of the foil hasn't totally covered the chocolate.....? 
Not worth it :Yuck:Woot


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I've been told by the covid app that I need to self isolate.
> 
> B*gger, was doing well getting back into running again.....


Oh no


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> I've been told by the covid app that I need to self isolate.
> 
> B*gger, was doing well getting back into running again.....


Can you get tested in a few days to clear you?

Just checked, seems like it wouldn't do any good anyway!


----------



## Happy Paws2

This make me feel safer....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57839990


----------



## MilleD

HarlequinCat said:


> You know when you get a creme egg and you notice a little tiny bit of the foil hasn't totally covered the chocolate.....?
> Not worth it :Yuck:Woot


:Hilarious I see you've thought the process through :Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Can you get tested in a few days to clear you?
> 
> Just checked, seems like it wouldn't do any good anyway!


Nope, you could still be germy (technical term)....


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Nope, you could still be germy (technical term)....


Yep … it's 10 days regardless.


----------



## HarlequinCat

MilleD said:


> :Hilarious I see you've thought the process through :Hilarious


Far too much! I need mental mind wipe.....


----------



## margy

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we're isolating too.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


Hope your son feels better soon it's a worry, thankfully young people don't appear to suffer as much as older people.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we're isolating too.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


Hoping you all get through it without being too ill. Well, hope you and OH don't get it at all!



Happy Paws2 said:


> That's just why I'm worried, I been feeling fairly safe going out once a week for the last month or so, now I'm starting to worry, I don't want people in my personal space I've got use to have space around me and the thought of going to Sainsbury's and no one wearing a mask terrifies me.


I've put in for my Prescription a little early and should have enough to last for 2 months. Don't want to be waiting around with all those sick people without masks......................


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> I've put in for my Prescription a little early and should have enough to last for 2 months. Don't want to be waiting around with all those sick people without masks......................


Some of the doctors surgeries around here are sending messages telling patients that nothing is changing with regard to masks and social distancing after the 19th.


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Some of the doctors surgeries around here are sending messages telling patients that nothing is changing with regard to masks and social distancing after the 19th.


This is a chemist! A tiny shop


----------



## Gemmaa

My OH just had a "back to work" meeting, it's fairly reassuring.
They're only going back for one day a week in August, increasing to two in September, and three in October.
Face masks must be worn, desks are socially distanced and need to be booked. Their perspex screening is staying up, temperature checks before going inside. They have to book which day they're going in, and must have the NHS app installed and isolate if told.

I mean, it does sound like it would be a lot easier to keep working from home if possible, but at least it seems very sensible .


----------



## willa

So My family and I are flying out to Mallorca next Saturday. It’s now been moved to Amber, yet we still can’t get money back for our flights or villa.

So we have to go or loose all our money down the drain.

I have to get a PCR test within 48 hours of arrival into Palma, & we all need test 2 days before flying back to UK. Plus another test at home on Day 2, & extra Day 8 Test for me. Plus I have to now isolate for 10 days . All because I’m yet to have my second vaccination .

We would much rather just not go, but unless it gets moved to Red, EasyJet & the Villa company refuse to give us our money back


----------



## kimthecat

@willa What a palavar.  I hope you enjoy it if you do go,


----------



## margy

kimthecat said:


> @willa What a palavar.  I hope you enjoy it if you do go,


My grandson rang me at the weekend full of excitement at his plans, he's just gotten through his A levels and is working part time at Asda saving to go to uni and full of chat looking forward to his holiday with his pals to Ibiza. Now it's gone into Amber he'll be gutted, he's only had one jab so don't know yet wether he can postpone or have to cancel.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> I don't want people in my personal space


 I cannot say I blame you. I occasionally catch the bus, and it was so nice having two seats to oneself, but, believe this or not: two days ago some guy sat next to me (he didn't have to, don't know why he did). He removed his mask, then removed a top set of false teeth and placed them on his knee, (the one nearer to me) - and there they were grinning up at me. I could not believe what I was seeing; gross or what!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Calvine said:


> I cannot say I blame you. I occasionally catch the bus, and it was so nice having two seats to oneself, but, believe this or not: two days ago some guy sat next to me (he didn't have to, don't know why he did). He removed his mask, then removed a top set of false teeth and placed them on his knee, (the one nearer to me) - and there they were grinning up at me. I could not believe what I was seeing; gross or what!


:Wtf that's not something you see everyday.... Yuck


----------



## rona

willa said:


> So My family and I are flying out to Mallorca next Saturday. It's now been moved to Amber, yet we still can't get money back for our flights or villa.
> 
> So we have to go or loose all our money down the drain.
> 
> I have to get a PCR test within 48 hours of arrival into Palma, & we all need test 2 days before flying back to UK. Plus another test at home on Day 2, & extra Day 8 Test for me. Plus I have to now isolate for 10 days . All because I'm yet to have my second vaccination .
> 
> We would much rather just not go, but unless it gets moved to Red, EasyJet & the Villa company refuse to give us our money back


I think you could get your second jab in a walk in center. They have reduced the gap to 4 weeks haven't they? Yours was 6 weeks ago!

Our local center are vaccinating anyone who had their first before 20th June.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> View attachment 472399
> 
> 
> Absolutely no idea what you mean!!!


oh mother of Thora Hird.... why?


----------



## MollySmith

simplysardonic said:


> Nah, he's stockpiling.


Hopefully he didn't forget bog roll.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> My 24 year old son has all symptoms except the vomiting.
> 
> Tested positive at home Monday after feeling unwell. He feels poorly but, thankfully not too bad.
> 
> Confined to bedroom and we are taking all necessary precautions whilst checking with him regularly.
> 
> It's 10 days of being waited on!
> 
> Waiting on the result of the other test for confirmation.
> 
> OH and I tested negative, thankfully, though we are both double jabbed but, obviously, we're isolating too.
> 
> DS was booked for a jab but hasn't had it yet.


I hope he gets better soon, take care all of you.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> That's just why I'm worried, I been feeling fairly safe going out once a week for the last month or so, now I'm starting to worry, I don't want people in my personal space I've got use to have space around me and the thought of going to Sainsbury's and no one wearing a mask terrifies me.


Yes I agree, for me it's going to mean taking steps backwards. Cheers Boris, enjoy you pint down the pub.[/QUOTE]

I agree. My local shop owners are worried because they don't have security staff like supermarkets and it's going to be hard to enforce wearing masks if it's not legal, but if they do get a case they can't afford to close but will have to. A friend's farm shop in West Country has had bits of it closed more than open because of isolation or no staff due to isolation or getting Covid, this week the cafe is closed, and that's with precautions. He's close to giving up and shutting up until Autumn.

it's madness - reverse engineering - that there are laws on what to do if there is a case, but nothing in place to prevent it. A clear case of the cabinet washing their hands.


----------



## Arny

rona said:


> I think you could get your second jab in a walk in center. They have reduced the gap to 4 weeks haven't they? Yours was 6 weeks ago!


Strange the inconsistency, can't be any earlier than 8 weeks where I am.


----------



## SbanR

Calvine said:


> I cannot say I blame you. I occasionally catch the bus, and it was so nice having two seats to oneself, but, believe this or not: two days ago some guy sat next to me (he didn't have to, don't know why he did). He removed his mask, then removed a top set of false teeth and placed them on his knee, (the one nearer to me) - and there they were grinning up at me. I could not believe what I was seeing; gross or what!


:Woot:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> Strange the inconsistency, can't be any earlier than 8 weeks where I am.


I'm sure they reduced from 12 to 8 weeks here too.


----------



## SusieRainbow

simplysardonic said:


> Nah, he's stockpiling.


Well, he won't be under pressure to share!


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Can you get tested in a few days to clear you?
> 
> Just checked, seems like it wouldn't do any good anyway!


I think if you're pinged by the App and break isolation rules and get caught it's a £10k fine, potentially.

I was pinged last night (DS's test had registered) and I can't go out until next Friday at 2359! 

Obviously, I'll follow the rules so I don't pose a threat to anyone else but I bet lots don't (or have deleted the App).


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I think if you're pinged by the App and break isolation rules and get caught it's a £10k fine, potentially.
> 
> I was pinged last night (DS's test had registered) and I can't go out until next Friday at 2359!
> 
> Obviously, I'll follow the rules so I don't pose a threat to anyone else but I bet lots don't (or have deleted the App).


Is the fine still in force?

The app says it advises you to stay in. That doesn't scream illegal not to go out does it?










I'll be like this guy!!


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> I think if you're pinged by the App and break isolation rules and get caught it's a £10k fine, potentially.
> 
> I was pinged last night (DS's test had registered) and I can't go out until next Friday at 2359!
> 
> Obviously, I'll follow the rules so I don't pose a threat to anyone else but I bet lots don't (or have deleted the App).


Ah, found this. It's only advisory from the app:

From BBC news NHS Covid app may change as rules change, Grant Shapps says - BBC News


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Obviously, I'll follow the rules so I don't pose a threat to anyone else but I bet lots don't (or have deleted the App).


OH did just this when he had to self isolate when having no contact with anyone at all. 
We discovered that our neighbour had just tested positive! 
On the local radio this morning, it had a story on just this, Seems they have at last realised that many have been told to isolate for no good reason


----------



## Isolette

Deeply thankful for my isolation here and although I do fret at times? The alternative? I came into isolation a year before we had even heard of covid after learning how depleted my immune system is with the CFS/ME . Apart from that one hospital flight a year ago I have not been further than the lane here. 

You are all amazing and wonderful.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Ah, found this. It's only advisory from the app:
> 
> From BBC news NHS Covid app may change as rules change, Grant Shapps says - BBC News
> View attachment 472438


Well, it's cut and dried for us as DS has tested positive (home test and official), so we will hunker down for the duration 

I've got a delivery from Waitrose today and another next Tuesday so we won't starve


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, it's cut and dried for us as DS has tested positive (home test and official), so we will hunker down for the duration


Yes, yours is a little closer to home! Hope he is ok x


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Ah, found this. It's only advisory from the app:
> 
> From BBC news NHS Covid app may change as rules change, Grant Shapps says - BBC News
> View attachment 472438


But the App is the Test & Trace, isn't it?

This is my App notification … it says NHS Test & Trace


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> On the local radio this morning, it had a story on just this, Seems they have at last realised that many have been told to isolate for no good reason


Having deduced where the ping came from (was at a couple of different places on Sunday with different family so was able to work it out from who got pinged), their setup is 2 big separate rooms with no mixing between plus an outside area. With one QR code covering it all. They have no idea of saying how close (or not) we were to the person that has tested positive.

And that selfish git probably went out not feeling very well too. Grrrr.

I will be doing a lateral flow this morning as it's now 5 days since I've been there.


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> But the App is the Test & Trace, isn't it?
> 
> This is my App notification … it says NHS Test & Trace
> 
> View attachment 472440


No, there is direct contact where you are contacted by them because someone has told them they have been in contact with you - that's test and trace.

And the app which throws a huge net around a QR code.

The rules are different. Besides, the app is (ha ha) _supposed _to be anonymous isn't it? So how do they know who is supposed to be isolating?


----------



## MilleD

The other mad thing about the app is that there is no way of leaving a venue. So you might not have even been there at the same time as the person who has tested positive. It's a bit rubbish really.

But don't worry, I'm not going to go mixing with people. Not that I do that much anyway...


----------



## Lurcherlad

Just occurred to me …. Although OH and I are double jabbed, could we have carried it and given it to him! 

Mind you, we are both very careful.

OH is spending 8 hours most days in the office though …..

His young assistant won’t have the jab because they deem their body is super healthy and a temple because they do body building 

Another colleague can’t have it because of serious health issues (and her daughter too). I wouldn’t want to be in the office if I were her.

Glad OH is working at home for these few days tbh. At least we have some control of the environment.

I’ll be pushing him to limit office visits to the absolute minimum going forward too …. At least while everything is so unsettled.


----------



## MilleD

Yes, you could have passed it to him. But then he could have picked it up anywhere.

I agree with you about the person with the health issues - I wouldn't want to go into the office if I wasn't jabbed!

Not sure body builders are the most healthiest folk about - so his reasons may be a little ill founded!


----------



## willa

rona said:


> I think you could get your second jab in a walk in center. They have reduced the gap to 4 weeks haven't they? Yours was 6 weeks ago!
> 
> Our local center are vaccinating anyone who had their first before 20th June.


I have tried at various places & always been turned away, being told I have to wait 8 weeks ( this is in London, which I assumed was ahead with vaccinations, clearly not )


----------



## rona

willa said:


> I have tried at various places & always been turned away, being told I have to wait 8 weeks ( this is in London, which I assumed was ahead with vaccinations, clearly not )


The official line is 8 weeks but they are having trouble finding enough people to take all the doses, and as they are Pfizer, they need using toot sweet 

This from my local site
"OPEN TO ALL 1st or 2nd DOSE of PFIZER VACCINE (For second doses your first MUST have been PRIOR to the 20th JUNE)"


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> The official line is 8 weeks but they are having trouble finding enough people to take all the doses, and as they are Pfizer, they need using toot sweet
> 
> This from my local site
> "OPEN TO ALL 1st or 2nd DOSE of PFIZER VACCINE (For second doses your first MUST have been PRIOR to the 20th JUNE)"


I think your area is exceptional in having always been waaaay ahead in getting jabs into arms.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> I have to wait 8 weeks


Before the vaccinations started, they said there would be two, three weeks apart, then decided every twelve simply so they could get more first-time jabs done to cover more of the population.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Before the vaccinations started, they said there would be two, three weeks apart, then decided every twelve simply so they could get more first-time jabs done to cover more of the population.


Wasn't it partly because the AZ jab was proven to be better with a longer wait - but the Pfizer one was originally supposed to be the 3-4?


----------



## Arny

Calvine said:


> Before the vaccinations started, they said there would be two, three weeks apart, then decided every twelve simply so they could get more first-time jabs done to cover more of the population.


But then they also found that longer than 3 weeks made the vaccine even more effective which I suppose could be why officially they still don't want it fewer than 8?

Crossposted


----------



## willa

Anyone else feeling anxious about restrictions being eased on Monday. Cases seems to be out of control again.


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Anyone else feeling anxious about restrictions being eased on Monday. Cases seems to be out of control again.


From what I've seen so far, most businesses are keeping to masks, social distancing and hand sanitizing


----------



## mrs phas

All the year 9s and 10s from both our high schools have been sent home til next September 
So many were testing positive, in so many form groups, after the weekend, that it was deemed better for them all to isolate, than try and work out who had had contact with whom


----------



## Lurcherlad

mrs phas said:


> All the year 9s and 10s from both our high schools have been sent home til next September
> So many were testing positive, in so many form groups, after the weekend, that it was deemed better for them all to isolate, than try and work out who had had contact with whom


I hope they do isolate and not have play dates.


----------



## ForestWomble

willa said:


> Anyone else feeling anxious about restrictions being eased on Monday. Cases seems to be out of control again.


Yes  Actually anxious is an understatement.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> From what I've seen so far, most businesses are keeping to masks, social distancing and hand sanitizing


business might but whether the public do... a friend is closing his cafe on his farm shop again and already had people coming in today claiming what does a few days matter and it's not legal so 'what's he going to do about it'. And they're right, from Monday what does he do? A wider outbreak will cause his whole site to close, at worse kill someone.


----------



## MollySmith

This plus 1200 scientists complaining to the government about the risks. I cannot imagine being a scientist working all hours on the vaccine to be watching on now. If anyone of them thought oh bollocks to it,I don’t blame them. Not gonna make it a huge image, it’s not nice figures, just click if you like. 

I think focus on what you can control, how often you go out, where, if you do. It’s a mental health crisis unfolding, I can feel it in myself, after a period of coping after my first vaccine and during the last lockdown. Monday fills me with horror and rage that I cannot articulate at BlowJo the Teflon PM but I’m sticking to what I can control.


----------



## StormyThai

I've seen a few people without masks in Lidl today...much more than usual, and the staff that I saw weren't wearing any masks either. I had to put my trolley behind me so that the person behind couldn't stand right next to me, much to their disgust (I was actually told to "calm down love" when I politely asked if they mind not standing so close to me).

My anxiety has stepped up for sure...and I'm fully vaccinated!


----------



## willa

There was a survey done which showed something like 80% of the public don’t agree with restrictions being eased on Monday .

I will continue doing exactly what I’ve been doing so far.

Very concerning when the Government are so relaxed about us potentially reaching 100,000 cases a day


----------



## Lurcherlad

StormyThai said:


> I've seen a few people without masks in Lidl today...much more than usual, and the staff that I saw weren't wearing any masks either. I had to put my trolley behind me so that the person behind couldn't stand right next to me, much to their disgust (I was actually told to "calm down love" when I politely asked if they mind not standing so close to me).
> 
> My anxiety has stepped up for sure...and I'm fully vaccinated!


I use my trolley as a barrier too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> This plus 1200 scientists complaining to the government about the risks. I cannot imagine being a scientist working all hours on the vaccine to be watching on now. If anyone of them thought oh bollocks to it,I don't blame them. Not gonna make it a huge image, it's not nice figures, just click if you like.
> 
> I think focus on what you can control, how often you go out, where, if you do. It's a mental health crisis unfolding, I can feel it in myself, after a period of coping after my first vaccine and during the last lockdown. Monday fills me with horror and rage that I cannot articulate at BlowJo the Teflon PM but I'm sticking to what I can control.


Sobering statistics


----------



## Siskin

We shall continue to have food deliveries and generally keeping ourselves to the house. OH is going to have a knee op mid August so I can’t see us going anywhere much for a while after that and I’m not exactly rushing about.
I guess places like hospitals will continue to encourage mask wearing, I wonder if they will be able to insist after next week. Certainly everyone I saw today at the hospital was wearing masks. I’m not due back for another month.


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> This plus 1200 scientists complaining to the government about the risks. I cannot imagine being a scientist working all hours on the vaccine to be watching on now. If anyone of them thought oh bollocks to it,I don't blame them. Not gonna make it a huge image, it's not nice figures, just click if you like.
> 
> I think focus on what you can control, how often you go out, where, if you do. It's a mental health crisis unfolding, I can feel it in myself, after a period of coping after my first vaccine and during the last lockdown. Monday fills me with horror and rage that I cannot articulate at BlowJo the Teflon PM but I'm sticking to what I can control.


'Liked' for the reminder about focusing on what you can control.

I agree that this is a mental health crisis unfolding, like you I can feel it in myself, I haven't felt this bad for a very long time, I've been fighting the panic and depression and other feelings inside me ever since I learnt about the plans for Monday. I'm questioning my plans going forward, if I end up isolating again and if I feel its safe to continue seeing my parents.


----------



## Siskin

Report in The Mirror over how young men are driving the high covid infection rates due to the football
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/surge-covid-cases-among-english-24546468


----------



## margy

My brother and wife in their late seventies are coming up from Hampshire with family this August. They were meant to come last August but delayed until this year. They are a bit nervous about stopping at service stations but their accommodation is a house in Alnmouth so should be ok. It will be thoroughly cleaned before they check in. We stayed in a hotel last weekend while visiting my son in the west Midlands and it was deserted. Only person around was on the reception desk.we didn't see one other person while we were there. I think only certain parts of the hotel were open but we felt very safe.


----------



## SusieRainbow

We went down to Hampshire to visit our son and family last weekend and stopped at Cherwell Valley Services.
The place was immaculate, the toilets spotless with cleaners working full time , we felt very safe there as always.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Report in The Mirror over how young men are driving the high covid infection rates due to the football
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/surge-covid-cases-among-english-24546468


I think the same can be said about tennis over the last fortnight and at this weekends Grand Prix


----------



## Lurcherlad

Being in isolation atm I’m back on supermarket delivery and I’m really not keen. I end up spending too much and struggling to avoid waste.

I was so grateful for it in Lockdown and before our jabs because of OH, of course, but once this isolation is over I will be doing my own shopping.

I’ll carry on with all the measures (including mask) and avoiding busy times.

I won’t be rushing back into busy indoor venues though.

I’m still concerned and cautious, but Covid isn’t going away, so I feel I need to have my own new “normal” but I know I’m lucky to be pretty self contained and independent.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Being in isolation atm I'm back on supermarket delivery and I'm really not keen. I end up spending too much and struggling to avoid waste.
> 
> I was so grateful for it in Lockdown and before our jabs because of OH, of course, but once this isolation is over I will be doing my own shopping.
> 
> I'll carry on with all the measures (including mask) and avoiding busy times.
> 
> I won't be rushing back into busy indoor venues though.
> 
> I'm still concerned and cautious, but Covid isn't going away, so I feel I need to have my own new "normal" but I know I'm lucky to be pretty self contained and independent.


Sorry your having to isolate, it must be so annoying hope your OK.

I'm the same, working on our own new normal, still have supermarket deliveries for the big stuff just going out for fresh veg and meat when needed, apart from that we are still happy to stay safely at home.


----------



## StormyThai

I can't wait for nightclubs to open up on Monday when most of them will be opening up to full capacity with no masks or extra measures...oh, they might do some extra cleaning but that's it!

I've seen two musicians cancel their summer bookings because they don't feel safe in a packed out nightclub!

Science is telling us that we need to keep masks and 2 jabs isn't enough... science is telling us that although we will be living with covid from now on, the virus has not finished mutating and infection rates, hospital admissions and deaths are all up and continuing to rise - UK Government and the people "FREEDOM DAY!!!!!"YAAAAY!

So long as people get their normality returned and get to go on their jollies... mean while I still don't get to see my dad because he has the audacity to live on the coast!

Yes I know that we need to learn to live with covid... just saying "feck it" we have kind of vaccinated a lot of people so let's get going isn't the way to work with a virus.

☹


----------



## Lurcherlad

StormyThai said:


> I can't wait for nightclubs to open up on Monday when most of them will be opening up to full capacity with no masks or extra measures...oh, they might do some extra cleaning but that's it!
> 
> I've seen two musicians cancel their summer bookings because they don't feel safe in a packed out nightclub!
> 
> Science is telling us that we need to keep masks and 2 jabs isn't enough... science is telling us that although we will be living with covid from now on, the virus has not finished mutating and infection rates, hospital admissions and deaths are all up and continuing to rise - UK Government and the people "FREEDOM DAY!!!!!"YAAAAY!
> 
> So long as people get their normality returned and get to go on their jollies... mean while I still don't get to see my dad because he has the audacity to live on the coast!
> 
> Yes I know that we need to learn to live with covid... just saying "feck it" we have kind of vaccinated a lot of people so let's get going isn't the way to work with a virus.
> 
> ☹


If this is a response to my post then you misunderstood me.

I am not saying "feck it" ……. for the record.

Why can't you visit your dad on the coast?


----------



## HarlequinCat

StormyThai said:


> I can't wait for nightclubs to open up on Monday when most of them will be opening up to full capacity with no masks or extra measures...oh, they might do some extra cleaning but that's it!
> 
> I've seen two musicians cancel their summer bookings because they don't feel safe in a packed out nightclub!
> 
> Science is telling us that we need to keep masks and 2 jabs isn't enough... science is telling us that although we will be living with covid from now on, the virus has not finished mutating and infection rates, hospital admissions and deaths are all up and continuing to rise - UK Government and the people "FREEDOM DAY!!!!!"YAAAAY!
> 
> So long as people get their normality returned and get to go on their jollies... mean while I still don't get to see my dad because he has the audacity to live on the coast!
> 
> Yes I know that we need to learn to live with covid... just saying "feck it" we have kind of vaccinated a lot of people so let's get going isn't the way to work with a virus.
> 
> ☹


I don't know how well lockdowns are working though. People's natural immunity to the flu is decreasing, norovirus cases are rising even though it is a winter bug and it is July! Lockdowns and isolating are not good for people! There has to be a way to live with it. This virus is always going to mutate, that's what viruses do. The vaccine is helping to reduce serious cases. Which was the aim, not to eradicate it but to help us live with it.

And I don't mean going back to normal, but we do need to ease into the idea it's here to stay.


----------



## SbanR

rona said:


> From what I've seen so far, most businesses are keeping to masks, social distancing and hand sanitizing


It would be very difficult for small businesses to enforce should someone kick off. Total cop out by dear Boris to put that on their shoulders


----------



## StormyThai

Lurcherlad said:


> If this is a response to my post then you misunderstood me.
> 
> I am not saying "feck it" ……. for the record.
> 
> Why can't you visit your dad on the coast?


No my post was in response to reading info coming from the entertainment industry talking about how nightclubs are all good to open at full capacity with zero mask wearing and no covid measures at all (beyond a bit of extra cleaning) and being angry that many people have just thrown their hands up and said "feck it"

I don't feel safe traveling down to an area that is being over run by hoards of tourists, and then add that to the fact that staying in the same accommodation that I stayed in pre-covid now costs £500+ extra making it unaffordable...It's £150 just to pitch a tent on a bit of grass with no electric for 3 nights 

I'm just getting more and more anxious which isn't helped by me being very tired, so I'm sorry if anyone thought that my posts were directed at anyone in this thread, I didn't mean for it to come across that way


----------



## SusieRainbow

StormyThai said:


> No my post was in response to reading info coming from the entertainment industry talking about how nightclubs are all good to open at full capacity with zero mask wearing and no covid measures at all (beyond a bit of extra cleaning) and being angry that many people have just thrown their hands up and said "feck it"
> 
> I don't feel safe traveling down to an area that is being over run by hoards of tourists, and then add that to the fact that staying in the same accommodation that I stayed in pre-covid now costs £500+ extra making it unaffordable...It's £150 just to pitch a tent on a bit of grass with no electric for 3 nights
> 
> I'm just getting more and more anxious which isn't helped by me being very tired, so I'm sorry if anyone thought that my posts were directed at anyone in this thread, I didn't mean for it to come across that way


Your frustration and anxiety is entirely justifiable and you're quite entitled to vent your feelings here , let's hope things do settle to a level that allows you to travel and visit safely.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> business might but whether the public do


I hope it's not going to be a case of leaving it to people's discretion, and I think things have got to be made clear and not so airy fairy. Have read twice that (London) tubes and buses will continue to enforce mask-wearing, but that British Rail will not, but oh, hang on, shall we leave it up to the individual rail companies to decide what happens. So you get off the tube (masked) at Waterloo to get a mainline train to wherever and you will (maybe) be allowed to remove it. Whatever they do, I hope they put large clear notices at the point of entry to bus/tube/train so people know what is expected and aren't taking it out on transport staff.


----------



## Cleo38

HarlequinCat said:


> I don't know how well lockdowns are working though. People's natural immunity to the flu is decreasing, norovirus cases are rising even though it is a winter bug and it is July! Lockdowns and isolating are not good for people! There has to be a way to live with it. This virus is always going to mutate, that's what viruses do. The vaccine is helping to reduce serious cases. Which was the aim, not to eradicate it but to help us live with it.
> 
> And I don't mean going back to normal, but we do need to ease into the idea it's here to stay.


I agree, I think the initial lockdown was probably needed as we didn't know much about the virus, etc but the ones after have just been a shambles. The rules don't make sense, the easing of certain activities but restrictions on others is ludicrous & it is having a massive impact on people's mental health. the way certain people's lives have been impacted (people in care homes, etc) has been inhumane & it has to stop.

Personally I have continued to see my family through out this but have always been sensible & am glad I did. I work from home now so am lucky in that I can choose how many people I come in to contact with (it was never many anyway even pre-Covid!).


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> No my post was in response to reading info coming from the entertainment industry talking about how nightclubs are all good to open at full capacity with zero mask wearing and no covid measures at all (beyond a bit of extra cleaning) and being angry that many people have just thrown their hands up and said "feck it"
> 
> I don't feel safe traveling down to an area that is being over run by hoards of tourists, and then add that to the fact that staying in the same accommodation that I stayed in pre-covid now costs £500+ extra making it unaffordable...It's £150 just to pitch a tent on a bit of grass with no electric for 3 nights
> 
> I'm just getting more and more anxious which isn't helped by me being very tired, so I'm sorry if anyone thought that my posts were directed at anyone in this thread, I didn't mean for it to come across that way


I normally take the boxer boys on holiday but not this year to expensive and risky. I have 6 weeks off so am just going to keep to myself.


----------



## Siskin

Our village pub has just announced that has had to close due to a member of staff getting covid.

I thought we were fairly safe here


----------



## Gemmaa

Health secretary has covid


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> I agree, I think the initial lockdown was probably needed as we didn't know much about the virus, etc but the ones after have just been a shambles. The rules don't make sense, the easing of certain activities but restrictions on others is ludicrous & it is having a massive impact on people's mental health. the way certain people's lives have been impacted (people in care homes, etc) has been inhumane & it has to stop.


This is what happens when you opt out of being a leader and become 'one of the boys' again 
Trying to please all the people all the time leadsto wishy washy management and those who are shouting the loudest (hospitality right now) being listened to, rather than carrying on to follow the science (even if it was in such a limp way)
BJ mentioned less than 100,000 deaths when talking about herd immunity last year and everyone was in uproar
Now, we've had somewhere near double that, WITH all the precautions implemented 
Yet, suddenly, 100,000 more deaths are acceptable, just so we can all go back to 'normal' 
It's a joke, normal is never going to be ' normal' again, even with innoculations 
Yes, we've got to learn to live with this, just like the flu or common cold 
But, with these rapid changes 
Do we have to learn to die with it too?
I will still be carrying on with all my precautions and if someone doesn't like me telling them to move away from me, well they'll discover my reasons, loud and clear


----------



## daveos

What a mess we are about to reopen up now health secretary has tested positive and cases are skyrocketing what to do lockdowns only tend to kick the infection down the road for a few weeks then back to square one so so fed up of this virus now dreading work next week with customers not wearing masks and no distancing can see things turning ugly.
I think we should have kept mask wearing and social distancing until everybody in the UK has been vaccinated as a minimum.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> I hope it's not going to be a case of leaving it to people's discretion, and I think things have got to be made clear and not so airy fairy. Have read twice that (London) tubes and buses will continue to enforce mask-wearing, but that British Rail will not, but oh, hang on, shall we leave it up to the individual rail companies to decide what happens. So you get off the tube (masked) at Waterloo to get a mainline train to wherever and you will (maybe) be allowed to remove it. Whatever they do, I hope they put large clear notices at the point of entry to bus/tube/train so people know what is expected and aren't taking it out on transport staff.


I agree, I sincerely hope not. My dad used to run a railway station before he retired in the 90s and people lacked sense then so I can relate, the abuse staff got then and doubtless now, is terrible. Then recently there was Quiet coaches where people were meant to sit in peace and not pollute the silence with phone calls and tinny headphone noise... yeah, like that worked. I think I'm mean to be reassured that we're all kinder and blah during the pandemic but find the close Monday comes, the more I detest humanity for being in the main, selfish arses.


----------



## MollySmith

Gemmaa said:


> Health secretary has covid


Which one of his new enlightened non-mask wearing policies did he follow to get that I wonder. Perhaps he followed BlowJo's example last March and shook hands.


----------



## Gemmaa

I think they'll have to do a u-turn, at least on masks and social distancing in shops, before long.
What happens if the majority of supermarket staff have to isolate?

Government advisors in other countries seem horrified by the plan, along with scientists, doctors, a good chunk of the public aren't happy.
It's not really a good start that the health secretary has it, and now it sounds like everyone at the Euro finals has caught it.

I see a briefing in a month or less, "...regrettably we're, going to have bring back some restrictions. We had hoped to avoid it, but we thought creme egg bum stuffers had common sense..."


----------



## MollySmith

I just wonder if it's that we have to see certain businesses cease to exist in their current form. Pubs have to adapt to table service, bands and concerts in a different way... you know how in the past, sweeps used kids to clean chimneys (bit extreme I realise...! ) and printers worked with lead type, and then people realised that was dangerous, illegal, cruel (which really is the same as carrying ones germy Covid self into a shop and risking a life). 

If we are to live with Covid, which we most certainly are, we have to accept that those businesses and trades that were closed to lower the figures, aren't actually viable ones anymore. Not saying I agree, when revolutions in industry were guided by social conditions and maybe this pandemic is one of them (and here ends my knowledge of history and pandemics).


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> This is what happens when you opt out of being a leader and become 'one of the boys' again
> Trying to please all the people all the time leadsto wishy washy management and those who are shouting the loudest (hospitality right now) being listened to, rather than carrying on to follow the science (even if it was in such a limp way)
> BJ mentioned less than 100,000 deaths when talking about herd immunity last year and everyone was in uproar
> Now, we've had somewhere near double that, WITH all the precautions implemented
> Yet, suddenly, 100,000 more deaths are acceptable, just so we can all go back to 'normal'
> It's a joke, normal is never going to be ' normal' again, even with innoculations
> Yes, we've got to learn to live with this, just like the flu or common cold
> But, with these rapid changes
> Do we have to learn to die with it too?
> *I will still be carrying on with all my precautions and if someone doesn't like me telling them to move away from me, well they'll discover my reasons, loud and clear*


Bets on whether it's you or me that has to shout at someone first? (I have to get milk on Monday btw)
First PF'er to be challenged in a shop for wearing a mask?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Oh dear....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57874744


----------



## Isolette

Watching the situation over there with increasing horror. Feeling for and with you all.


----------



## catz4m8z

I suppose the restrictions have to end at some point dont they?
I know numbers in my hospital have started rising again but its mostly unvaccinated people who are very poorly. Hopefully by the end of year enough people will have been vaccinated that it will become like the flu (which is no joke and a killer too but we live with it).


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> I suppose the restrictions have to end at some point dont they?
> I know numbers in my hospital have started rising again but its mostly unvaccinated people who are very poorly. Hopefully by the end of year enough people will have been vaccinated that it will become like the flu (which is no joke and a killer too but we live with it).


I've spoken with genuine NHS staff over the last few days, at least one local hospital is about to cancel all elective surgery for the forseeable future again. They're expecting others to have to follow suit. Also, thanks to the easing of social distancing measures, it's not only Covid cases they are being inundated with, but an unseasonable resurgance of manner of other communicable illnesses that have until now also been minimised by social distancing measures - flu, norovirus, that kind of thing.


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> I suppose the restrictions have to end at some point dont they?
> I know numbers in my hospital have started rising again but its mostly unvaccinated people who are very poorly. Hopefully by the end of year enough people will have been vaccinated that it will become like the flu (which is no joke and a killer too but we live with it).


Agree they have to end sometime but just wonder it leaving it later would've been better. It feels sometimes like Teflon Boris has one eye in his post political career as a game show host and trying to keep up the popularity votes.


----------



## MilleD

I'm honestly not sure how many people are actually still following the rules to be honest.

So I'm not sure exactly how much difference there will be after Monday.

Places will have their own thoughts on masks etc, but there were so many "exempt" people before, I can't see that much change there.

Even with the current rules, cases are through the roof (although not hospitalisation or deaths) so maybe the rules changing won't make that much difference. Time will tell I guess.

Workplaces will remain the same for a while, I think I read that right? So folks should feel ok there - assuming that's what they do.

From what I've seen when out and about (not currently as self isolating) doubt it will change that much.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Agree they have to end sometime but just wonder it leaving it later would've been better. It feels sometimes like Teflon Boris has one eye in his post political career as a game show host and trying to keep up the popularity votes.


Did you watch Chris Whitty at last Mondays briefing? He explained why now is as good a time as any. Later in the year, you run the risk of increases due to colder weather and everyone meeting indoors. And schools will be going back. I think now is good looking at the alternatives.


----------



## Cully

To those people with the common sense that has seen us through this so far, I say ignore the ego spewing of our PM and just carry on doing what you've been doing for the last 18 months and encourage others to follow suit.
I've said from the beginning that the only way through this is to do whatever it takes to keep you and yours safe. You can't help selfish idiots.


----------



## Isolette

Cully said:


> To those people with the common sense that has seen us through this so far, I say ignore the ego spewing of our PM and just carry on doing what you've been doing for the last 18 months and encourage others to follow suit.
> I've said from the beginning that the only way through this is to do whatever it takes to keep you and yours safe. You can't help selfish idiots.


#
Wise wise words for there and here.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> To those people with the common sense that has seen us through this so far, I say ignore the ego spewing of our PM and just carry on doing what you've been doing for the last 18 months and encourage others to follow suit.
> I've said from the beginning that the only way through this is to do whatever it takes to keep you and yours safe. You can't help selfish idiots.


Absolutely.

The _zone of control_. We can control our actions and behaviours. We have to accept we can't control other peoples (and express our dislike of ego spewing at the voting booth).


----------



## willa

Wish the media would stop referring to tomorrow as “Freedom Day”.
And then the Government ( Johnson & Sunak ) tried to say they weren’t going to self isolate, having been contacted by track and trace .

Honestly feels like we’ve totally lost control of this situation


----------



## Blackadder

We nev


willa said:


> Wish the media would stop referring to tomorrow as "Freedom Day".
> And then the Government ( Johnson & Sunak ) tried to say they weren't going to self isolate, having been contacted by track and trace .
> 
> Honestly feels like we've totally lost control of this situation


We never had control!


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Wish the media would stop referring to tomorrow as "Freedom Day".
> And then the Government ( Johnson & Sunak ) tried to say they weren't going to self isolate, having been contacted by track and trace .
> 
> Honestly feels like we've totally lost control of this situation


I agree about "freedom day" - it gives people a false sense of the seriousness of the situation we are still facing.

However, I believe BJ and RS are doing daily PCR tests to avoid any chance they are infective and pass it on … as well as using Zoom etc. as much as possible.

They aren't just sticking their fingers up at the rest of us.

It's part of a pilot scheme to enable businesses to function when one employee tests positive, yet the rest of the workforce are negative.

OH and I could have benefited from it for sure, if it were an option currently.


----------



## Boxer123

They have U turned and will be isolating.


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> Wish the media would stop referring to tomorrow as "Freedom Day".
> And then the Government ( Johnson & Sunak ) tried to say they weren't going to self isolate, having been contacted by track and trace .
> 
> Honestly feels like we've totally lost control of this situation


it's like the hokey cokey. To be honest I laughed because nothing surprises me now.

I'm utterly confused about why they were not and then they were, I can't imagine for one moment I'm not the only one. Feels utter madness to launch a test in the current shambles.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Did you watch Chris Whitty at last Mondays briefing? He explained why now is as good a time as any. Later in the year, you run the risk of increases due to colder weather and everyone meeting indoors. And schools will be going back. I think now is good looking at the alternatives.


Yes but it's setting a huge risk against social behaviour though I do see your point. I am sure I've got some more eloquent words to explain what I mean but the heat has fried my brain.


----------



## Cully

Boris has u turned on the pilot scheme and is now self isolating for the required period. Much too big for his boots if he thinks he's too grandiose to take part in a scheme he agreed to.


----------



## Guest

The PM has a cheek. He says everyone should stick to the same rules. He didn't nor did Hancock.


----------



## Guest

I for one will be continuing to use my face mask on public transport and in shops as the cases are far to high for my liking. I have been fully vaccinated by the way but I don't think this will fully protect me against this awful virus.


----------



## SbanR

With this lot, it's always been one rule for them and another for the hoi polloi


----------



## Calvine

oldeecatowner said:


> He didn't nor did Hancock.


 . . . or Cummings, or Ferguson . . . or . . . you can't trust any of them! I bet you wouldn't have caught Margaret Thatcher blatantly flouting rules which she had made.


----------



## mrs phas

I got this email today 
Tesco's stance on it

Tesco.com 


​
Let's be on the
safe side.

Hello Mrs Douglas,

I hope you and your family have been keeping safe.

Throughout the pandemic, we've focused on making sure everyone can get the food they need in a safe environment. As government guidance on
COVID-19 continues to change, I wanted to share an update on the safety measures in our stores.

While the easing of restrictions means that some safety measures will no longer be a legal requirement, we've listened to customers and our colleagues, and we know a lot of people remain cautious. In line with the government advice to act carefully, we feel it's important to continue with certain measures to be on the safe side.

Here's what we're doing to make sure everyone feels as safe as possible in our stores.

*Please keep wearing a face covering in our stores if you can*

Although the legal requirement to wear a face covering in England ends on 19 July, the government expects and recommends that people continue to wear a face covering in crowded and enclosed spaces.

So we're encouraging our colleagues and you, our customers, to continue wearing face coverings if you can.

For our customers and colleagues in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, face coverings remain mandatory unless exempt, as set out in government guidance.

*We're keeping enhanced hygiene, cleaning and safety measures in place*

As before, you'll find sanitiser and wipes at the store entrance. The screens at the checkout are staying as well. We're keeping the traffic light system in place too, to help monitor the flow of customers and prevent overcrowding.

*Quieter hour*

We're continuing to set time aside for customers who need or want a quieter shopping experience, to make sure that everyone can shop safely. Please check our store locator for your local store's hours.

*Shopping online*

If you're shopping online, our colleagues are happy to keep a safe distance when they deliver your shopping and they will always do so if you're self-isolating. If that's the case, please tell your driver or let us know in the delivery notes. All our drivers will continue to sanitise their hands and equipment regularly too.

We continue to offer priority slots for vulnerable customers. And if you're vulnerable, disabled or elderly, you can also ask our drivers to carry your shopping into your home for you, as long as you aren't self-isolating.

*Supporting communities*

As we have throughout the pandemic, we're providing support for local communities tackling COVID-19, and helping children and families across the UK. A big thank you to everyone who donated to our Summer Food Collection in our larger stores this weekend; the collection points in our Express stores remain open until 28 August. To help as many people as possible, we'll be topping up all your donations by an extra 20%.

From tomorrow, we're also launching a new campaign called Buy One to Help a Child, which aims to donate up to three million meals to help children living in food insecurity. Every time you buy a piece of fresh fruit or veg in one of our stores or online between 19 July and 8 August, we'll donate to FareShare to provide meals for children who need them most*.

*Every little helps*

We're really grateful for your support and everything you've been doing to help keep our colleagues and other customers safe. Our colleagues are here to help and are still working very hard in difficult circumstances, so please continue to be kind, patient and respectful.

Thank you for helping us all to look after each other, and stay safe.

Jason Tarry

Tesco UK CEO


----------



## Guest

Calvine said:


> . . . or Cummings, or Ferguson . . . or . . . you can't trust any of them! I bet you wouldn't have caught Margaret Thatcher blatantly flouting rules which she had made.


Isn't is a great way to rule the nation. They create the rules, we stick to them and they break the rules they created. I think people are fed up of them telling us what to do and they break their own rules and laws and then try and defend their actions.


----------



## Pawscrossed

People voted for them, indeed gave them a majority.


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> . . . or Cummings, or Ferguson . . . or . . . you can't trust any of them! I bet you wouldn't have caught Margaret Thatcher blatantly flouting rules which she had made.


She'd have had the spanky stick out 
Mind 
Those in the cabinet then 
Would've probably loved it


----------



## Pawscrossed

mrs phas said:


> She'd have had the spanky stick out
> Mind
> Those in the cabinet then
> Would've probably loved it


:Sour


----------



## mrs phas

Pawscrossed said:


> :Sour


I'd take more sugar with that, if I were you
or 
your face might get stuck when the wind changes


----------



## simplysardonic

mrs phas said:


> She'd have had the spanky stick out
> Mind
> *Those in the cabinet then
> Would've probably loved it*


Oh yuck, now there's an image I need some eye bleach for!:Hilarious


----------



## Blackadder

simplysardonic said:


> Oh yuck, now there's an image I need some eye bleach for!:Hilarious


Strangely I find the idea of Maggie spanking Michael Heseltine kind of satisfying, even more so if it were the other way round!


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> She'd have had the spanky stick out
> Mind
> Those in the cabinet then
> Would've probably loved it


Just think Spitting Image :Smuggrin.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The weather couldn't be worse for them dropping restrictions, can you just imagine what the beaches and pubs are going to be like today :Arghh


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> The weather couldn't be worse for them dropping restrictions, can you just imagine what the beaches and pubs are going to be like today :Arghh


Did you see all the idiots in the night club going crazy as the clock struck midnight?

Moronic behaviour imo.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Apparently Test & Release is no longer a pilot scheme but has been used for a while now with some Police and Ambulance services with great success.

It has shown that the majority of a workforce can continue to function provided that they give a negative result to a daily test.

The Medical expert on tv stated it was a game changer.

I think it’s a good way forward and wish OH and I were eligible. We could all have tested negative for days now.

Hopefully, his boss will implement it too at their office as he is raging that 2 members of staff are refusing to be vaccinated.

Regardless of the fact that one other lady cannot be vaccinated because of serious health issues (and her daughter at home). 

I’m encouraging OH (who was shielding before) to work from home as much as possible and only go into the office when absolutely necessary. In my opinion that’s actually never as he can work online and use Zoom to do his job 100%.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Did you see all the idiots in the night club going crazy as the clock struck midnight?
> 
> Moronic behaviour imo.


Although you wouldn't catch me in there these are young people who have missed so much of their adolescence. I would have been crawling the walls at 20. We were told 'have your jabs and we can go back to normal' this clearly isn't the case. Don't get me wrong I do cringe at these pictures I'm pretty sure we will have a winter lockdown but for a lot nightclubs are people's business or line of revenue.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Although you wouldn't catch me in there these are young people who have missed so much of adolescence


I do get that, my son is 24.

But making a point of counting down to midnight to pack a nightclub and take such a huge risk (and thumb their noses at the rest of society, especially the frontline workers) is just distasteful imo.

Btw many of the people in there weren't that young!


----------



## Gemmaa

Lots of mask wearing this morning - staff and customers. Screens were still up 

One woman made a snarky comment about not having to wear a mask...but she had a face for radio, so she might want to reconsider her stance


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> I do get that, my son is 24.
> 
> But making a point of counting down to midnight to pack a nightclub and take such a huge risk (and thumb their noses at the rest of society, especially the frontline workers) is just distasteful imo.
> 
> Btw many of the people in their weren't that young!


I do know what you mean I just think we have been sold freedom day when actually it isn't and we are in a very dangerous position. I don't blame these people I blame lack of leadership.


----------



## Lurcherlad

The Leadership could definitely make better decisions and clearer guidelines, I agree, but we as individuals still have a responsibility.

I wonder if all those mixing in the nightclub and throwing caution to the wind will be travelling on trains or tubes tomorrow or going into the office? 

I predict a spike in cases 

I’ve known all along I can only control my own personal environment at home and work hard out in public to ward off all on comers!


----------



## Cleo38

Boxer123 said:


> Although you wouldn't catch me in there these are young people who have missed so much of their adolescence. I would have been crawling the walls at 20. We were told 'have your jabs and we can go back to normal' this clearly isn't the case. Don't get me wrong I do cringe at these pictures I'm pretty sure we will have a winter lockdown but for a lot nightclubs are people's business or line of revenue.


Same here. At 20 I was out every night & this pandemic would have affected me greatly had I not been able to socialise. I am so lucky that i am the complete opposite now & I enjoy being on my own.

I feel so sorry for young people who are so limited in what they've been able to do especially those who started at Uni & were looking forward to meeting new people & socialising. it must be very difficult


----------



## Boxer123

Cleo38 said:


> Same here. At 20 I was out every night & this pandemic would have affected me greatly had I not been able to socialise. I am so lucky that i am the complete opposite now & I enjoy being on my own.
> 
> I feel so sorry for young people who are so limited in what they've been able to do especially those who started at Uni & were looking forward to meeting new people & socialising. it must be very difficult


And they have been promised 'get the jab and get on with your life' there is even an NHS ad saying as much. Now we seem to be backtracking over that.


----------



## Cleo38

Boxer123 said:


> And they have been promised 'get the jab and get on with your life' there is even an NHS ad saying as much. Now we seem to be backtracking over that.


I know! And I was surprised just how well the roll out went tbh but now despite many people having the jab we are being told differently. I am going to do what i feel is best as I always have done. I don't socialise much although I have started to go out to local pubs for lunch. As well as being nice to catch up with friends I feel they need our business after such a difficult time (any excuse to go to the pub!!), but I am going at times when they are less busy.


----------



## Boxer123

Cleo38 said:


> I know! And I was surprised just how well the roll out went tbh but now despite many people having the jab we are being told differently. I am going to do what i feel is best as I always have done. I don't socialise much although I have started to go out to local pubs for lunch. As well as being nice to catch up with friends I feel they need our business after such a difficult time (any excuse to go to the pub!!), but I am going at times when they are less busy.


I have been for a few pub lunches not sure how I will feel now restrictions have lifted. On the plus side deliveroo have started coming our way so we had our first takeaway in two years last night from pizza express yum.


----------



## MollySmith

Popped out to get food shopping. Saw more masks on than off (just two not wearing) in our indie shops. Mind you this is the city whose nursing staff demanded better of BlowJo so there are few chances of many of us listening to him when almost everyone knows someone at Addenbrookes, the university, or AZ who are based here. Or indeed have experienced a loss.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Popped out to get food shopping. Saw more masks on than off (just two not wearing) in our indie shops. Mind you this is the city whose nursing staff demanded better of BlowJo so there are few chances of many of us listening to him when almost everyone knows someone at Addenbrookes, the university of AZ who are based here.


I honestly think you'll be surprised at the compliance.

Obviously the media want you to see things like the scenes in the nightclubs as it's better for riling up the masses.

But just look at the comments on this thread. Most people do want to protect themselves and others. And if there are places where people aren't thinking that, folks can choose not to go.


----------



## MilleD

More and more establishments seem to be making their own rules which is good to see. This is a restaurant near me.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> Although you wouldn't catch me in there these are young people who have missed so much of their adolescence.


It's 18months, not years 
Hardly "so much" of their adolescence 
Ok 
Two year groups have missed exams or if at college/uni their finals 
But 
Most have gotten better grades from assessment than they would've done sitting taking a paper exam 
The same with proms and Freshers weeks, is it so bad that two year groups have missed out on getting so drunk they end up being taken to hospital, arrested, taking drugs, passing out and committing crimes that will stay with them for life 
How about all those who are cheering the fact they're not being pressurised to attend something that they'd hate so much, the ones whose social anxiety would be through the roof at the thought of it 
Those crippling shy ones, the ones who know they'll be made fun of, those that don't fit in with the 'norm', 
2 years of missed opportunity doesn't ruin their lives, they may think it does now 
But 
At least their alive to moan about it 
How many lost parents, siblings, aunts/ uncles, grandparents, friends 
The ones able to moan are the lucky ones 
But 
Looking at news from last night 
Are also the ones who are going to drive the next spike and lockdown 
As the saying goes 
Adolescence is wasted on the young


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I honestly think you'll be surprised at the compliance.
> 
> Obviously the media want you to see things like the scenes in the nightclubs as it's better for riling up the masses.
> 
> But just look at the comments on this thread. Most people do want to protect themselves and others. And if there are places where people aren't thinking that, folks can choose not to go.


Absolutely. It's more headline grabby isn't it?

I've seen a few updates on social from cafes where owners have said nothing changes - follow the pre 19th guidance and wear mask etc. The few replies that call them out are being closed down by others thanking the business. I expect they'll get more business because of it. I hope so.


----------



## Cleo38

mrs phas said:


> It's 18months, not years
> Hardly "so much" of their adolescence
> Ok
> Two year groups have missed exams or if at college/uni their finals
> But
> Most have gotten better grades from assessment than they would've done sitting taking a paper exam
> The same with proms and Freshers weeks, is it so bad that two year groups have missed out on getting so drunk they end up being taken to hospital, arrested, taking drugs, passing out and committing crimes that will stay with them for life
> How about all those who are cheering the fact they're not being pressurised to attend something that they'd hate so much, the ones whose social anxiety would be through the roof at the thought of it
> Those crippling shy ones, the ones who know they'll be made fun of, those that don't fit in with the 'norm',
> 2 years of missed opportunity doesn't ruin their lives, they may think it does now
> But
> At least their alive to moan about it
> How many lost parents, siblings, aunts/ uncles, grandparents, friends
> The ones able to moan are the lucky ones
> But
> Looking at news from last night
> Are also the ones who are going to drive the next spike and lockdown
> As the saying goes
> Adolescence is wasted on the young


2yrs at that age is a lifetime. Those events are milestones in their lives & ones they would (probably) look back on in years to come but they have been robbed of those. Some of us have experienced loss but IMO it's not a competition of who has suffered the most.

They haven't just missed out on events but work/life experience, family members, friends, support networks, sports, etc. I think we should show compassion for everyone during this time, not just those we deem worthy of it


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Absolutely. It's more headline grabby isn't it?


I think the media have acted absolutely atrociously through this whole episode to be honest.


----------



## MilleD

Cleo38 said:


> 2yrs at that age is a lifetime. Those events are milestones in their lives & ones they would (probably) look back on in years to come but they have been robbed of those. Some of us have experienced loss but IMO it's not a competition of who has suffered the most.
> 
> They haven't just missed out on events but work/life experience, family members, friends, support networks, sports, etc. I think we should show compassion for everyone during this time, not just those we deem worthy of it


Totally agree. I would have hated to have been younger during all this.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Cleo38 said:


> I know! And I was surprised just how well the roll out went tbh but now despite many people having the jab we are being told differently. I am going to do what i feel is best as I always have done. I don't socialise much although I have started to go out to local pubs for lunch. As well as being nice to catch up with friends I feel they need our business after such a difficult time (any excuse to go to the pub!!), but I am going at times when they are less busy.


We had felt safe enough to venture occasionally into airy, sparsely populated pubs and cafes …. But now, we shall remain out in the open air (fleeces and warm clothes ready again for autumn and winter).


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I honestly think you'll be surprised at the compliance.
> 
> Obviously the media want you to see things like the scenes in the nightclubs as it's better for riling up the masses.
> 
> But just look at the comments on this thread. Most people do want to protect themselves and others. And if there are places where people aren't thinking that, folks can choose not to go.


Except crowded public transport if you need to use it to get to work ….. and have to work indoors with those not complying.

I'm extremely lucky that I can truly avoid people and situations, but feel for all those who can't.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> More and more establishments seem to be making their own rules which is good to see. This is a restaurant near me.
> 
> View attachment 472773


I just hope other places act in the same reapable manner.


----------



## Siskin

Over the last month or so the media, particularly newspapers have nagged and nagged about allowing us to be ‘free’ now that more people are vaccinated.
I’m giving them two weeks and then they will be going on and on about the rising infection rates and how we should all be in lockdown again


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> I think the media have acted absolutely atrociously through this whole episode to be honest.


But it did still happen…


----------



## £54etgfb6

mrs phas said:


> It's 18months, not years
> Hardly "so much" of their adolescence
> Ok
> Two year groups have missed exams or if at college/uni their finals
> But
> Most have gotten better grades from assessment than they would've done sitting taking a paper exam
> The same with proms and Freshers weeks, is it so bad that two year groups have missed out on getting so drunk they end up being taken to hospital, arrested, taking drugs, passing out and committing crimes that will stay with them for life
> How about all those who are cheering the fact they're not being pressurised to attend something that they'd hate so much, the ones whose social anxiety would be through the roof at the thought of it
> Those crippling shy ones, the ones who know they'll be made fun of, those that don't fit in with the 'norm',
> 2 years of missed opportunity doesn't ruin their lives, they may think it does now
> But
> At least their alive to moan about it
> How many lost parents, siblings, aunts/ uncles, grandparents, friends
> The ones able to moan are the lucky ones
> But
> Looking at news from last night
> Are also the ones who are going to drive the next spike and lockdown
> As the saying goes
> Adolescence is wasted on the young


From being in university and experiencing a freshers week pre-covid I completely agree with you. Starting university is exciting and a lot of people want to experience every aspect of the stereotypical university life but...... you can get drunk at a party/bar/nightclub at any age. It isn't limited to 18-20s. At that age you should be educated enough to be able to look at the bigger picture. You should be able to understand that while you may be upset at missing out on freshers week, thousands of people are upset at their relatives dying from covid and participating in freshers week can lead to more deaths. The only issue I see is the barriers to socialisation but majority of new students live in student accommodation so they will have their flatmates. Additionally, universities (at least mine) have held group calls where students can participate in activities like crafting over zoom and things. It's a different way of life but life changes all the time? I think students prefer the online assessments too as most people get serious nerves about the whole sitting-in-a-large-exam-hall-with-invigilators setup.

What baffles me is how a government official can be aware that easing restrictions so rapidly will lead to an increase in deaths and be totally fine with it. I am entirely unsurprised that BJ has taken this path, considering he advocated for herd immunity at the beginning of all this but I still don't understand *why. *How can you make a decision that leads to needless deaths and be fine with that???? What are your priorities? Why do you believe you know better than scientists who have dedicated their lives to this field? What qualifications do you have? I am doubtful if these gov officials see people as people and not as money making machines.

Also, why do some other countries' inhabitants seem to take things more seriously than ours? Why are so many of the british public obsessed with going to a pub/club all the while maintaining a ridiculous degree of arrogance and belief that they are the centre of the universe? Restrictions are frustrating. I did not see my partner for over 6 months because of them and it felt awful. But how can someone not see the bigger picture when the evidence is all around us?


----------



## Boxer123

bmr10 said:


> From being in university and experiencing a freshers week pre-covid I completely agree with you. Starting university is exciting and a lot of people want to experience every aspect of the stereotypical university life but...... you can get drunk at a party/bar/nightclub at any age. It isn't limited to 18-20s. At that age you should be educated enough to be able to look at the bigger picture. You should be able to understand that while you may be upset at missing out on freshers week, thousands of people are upset at their relatives dying from covid and participating in freshers week can lead to more deaths. The only issue I see is the barriers to socialisation but majority of new students live in student accommodation so they will have their flatmates. Additionally, universities (at least mine) have held group calls where students can participate in activities like crafting over zoom and things. It's a different way of life but life changes all the time? I think students prefer the online assessments too as most people get serious nerves about the whole sitting-in-a-large-exam-hall-with-invigilators setup.
> 
> What baffles me is how a government official can be aware that easing restrictions so rapidly will lead to an increase in deaths and be totally fine with it. I am entirely unsurprised that BJ has taken this path, considering he advocated for herd immunity at the beginning of all this but I still don't understand *why. *How can you make a decision that leads to needless deaths and be fine with that???? What are your priorities? Why do you believe you know better than scientists who have dedicated their lives to this field? What qualifications do you have? I am doubtful if these gov officials see people as people and not as money making machines.
> 
> Also, why do some other countries' inhabitants seem to take things more seriously than ours? Why are so many of the british public obsessed with going to a pub/club all the while maintaining a ridiculous degree of arrogance and belief that they are the centre of the universe? Restrictions are frustrating. I did not see my partner for over 6 months because of them and it felt awful. But how can someone not see the bigger picture when the evidence is all around us?


I think they do see the bigger picture. The young have had a really bad rap throughout this but most have followed the rules. The 16 year old who lives next to me spent the first lockdown shopping for the elderly residents in my village and delivering food.

They have missed;

School 
Leaving parties 
Proms 
Trips 
Work experience 
Some have paid rent at uni but couldn't live there
They have lost family members

As @Cleo38 said why can't we show compassion to everyone?

The government are now telling them they can go out it doesn't make them selfish.


----------



## Blackadder

MilleD said:


> More and more establishments seem to be making their own rules which is good to see. This is a restaurant near me.


I used to go to "the mill" regularly when the kids were young, haven't been for a few years. Lovely pub 

Off topic I know, sorry


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Except crowded public transport if you need to use it to get to work ….. and have to work indoors with those not complying.
> 
> I'm extremely lucky that I can truly avoid people and situations, but feel for all those who can't.


I've already said earlier in the thread that on public transport it should be mandatory. But most other places you have a choice.


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> What baffles me is how a government official can be aware that easing restrictions so rapidly will lead to an increase in deaths and be totally fine with it. I am entirely unsurprised that BJ has taken this path, considering he advocated for herd immunity at the beginning of all this but I still don't understand *why. *How can you make a decision that leads to needless deaths and be fine with that???? What are your priorities? Why do you believe you know better than scientists who have dedicated their lives to this field? What qualifications do you have? I am doubtful if these gov officials see people as people and not as money making machines.


But the link between deaths and cases is not like it was. Look at the numbers of cases, and look at the number of deaths quoting covid on the cert ( not positive tests as that's always been a dodgy stat). The two currently look not entwined at all.

The hardship caused by the restrictions has got to be looked at as well.


----------



## MilleD

Blackadder said:


> I used to go to "the mill" regularly when the kids were young, haven't been for a few years. Lovely pub
> 
> Off topic I know, sorry


Small world innit! It's still a lovely place :Happy


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> But it did still happen…


But the media make it look like it's what everyone is doing.

Have you seen them reporting the sensible folk still looking out for others? Because there are millions of them probably. Not so exciting a story though...


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Over the last month or so the media, particularly newspapers have nagged and nagged about allowing us to be 'free' now that more people are vaccinated.
> I'm giving them two weeks and then they will be going on and on about the rising infection rates and how we should all be in lockdown again


You know what, this is what bl00dy annoys be the most about the media. I wish they would take a stance to be outraged at something and stick to it, instead of flip flopping between polarised viewpoints. Drives me mad.

The media: "Shock, horror!!! Boris is delaying (we decided would be called) Freedom Day!! How very dare he!!!"

Also the media: "Shock, horror!!! Boris is going ahead with (what we decided to call) Freedom Day!! How very dare he!!!"

etc etc etc...


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Did you see all the idiots in the night club going crazy as the clock struck midnight


I was very aware of many blue lights and sirens about one this morning when I came home.


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> considering he advocated for herd immunity at the beginning of all this


And considering that he himself was extremely ill with it (possibly as a result of being obese, but even so . . . ), so he knows what it's like.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> As @Cleo38 said why can't we show compassion to everyone?


I do, always have, always will do 
Don't forget I have 4 boys myself 
Thankfully none of us have been impacted by the death of someone close 
But they've all had to isolate at different times, Matt and I for best part of the 18 months 
Matt's twin was on furlough for most of it, 2 jobs down to no jobs
But 
Surely those who have lost family or close friends 
Deserve a tad more compassion than those who've missed a prom, school trip or leaving do's

Saying that one group of people deserve more compassion than another, doesn't make you uncompassionate 
It just means some thing's/ones can *never* be replaced, 
whilst others _can _be done at a later date 
It might not be the same 
But it can happen


----------



## rona

On the news this morning. A coordinator for the NHS, didn't catch what they coordinate, but they said 25% of intensive care beds are now taken up by Covid patients


----------



## Arny

bmr10 said:


> From being in university and experiencing a freshers week pre-covid I completely agree with you. Starting university is exciting and a lot of people want to experience every aspect of the stereotypical university life but...... you can get drunk at a party/bar/nightclub at any age. It isn't limited to 18-20s. At that age you should be educated enough to be able to look at the bigger picture. You should be able to understand that while you may be upset at missing out on freshers week, thousands of people are upset at their relatives dying from covid and participating in freshers week can lead to more deaths. The only issue I see is the barriers to socialisation but majority of new students live in student accommodation so they will have their flatmates. Additionally, universities (at least mine) have held group calls where students can participate in activities like crafting over zoom and things. It's a different way of life but life changes all the time? I think students prefer the online assessments too as most people get serious nerves about the whole sitting-in-a-large-exam-hall-with-invigilators setup.
> 
> What baffles me is how a government official can be aware that easing restrictions so rapidly will lead to an increase in deaths and be totally fine with it. I am entirely unsurprised that BJ has taken this path, considering he advocated for herd immunity at the beginning of all this but I still don't understand *why. *How can you make a decision that leads to needless deaths and be fine with that???? What are your priorities? Why do you believe you know better than scientists who have dedicated their lives to this field? What qualifications do you have? I am doubtful if these gov officials see people as people and not as money making machines.
> 
> Also, why do some other countries' inhabitants seem to take things more seriously than ours? Why are so many of the british public obsessed with going to a pub/club all the while maintaining a ridiculous degree of arrogance and belief that they are the centre of the universe? Restrictions are frustrating. I did not see my partner for over 6 months because of them and it felt awful. But how can someone not see the bigger picture when the evidence is all around us?


I'm so thankful I wasn't at school or uni throughout this and I'm not/wasn't one for going to bars or clubs.
Just think the whole system turned into a mess.

We've likely reached acceptable deaths, we have it with other diseases. 
The scientists have the advantage of only having to look at aspects of the virus alone, the government have to look at everything.
I don't like this government but I do think at this point they're in a very difficult position in making 'the right' decision.

I don't think its just the british that are obsessing with going out and doing things. There have been riots the world over at the restrictions put on society.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> But the link between deaths and cases is not like it was. Look at the numbers of cases, and look at the number of deaths quoting covid on the cert ( not positive tests as that's always been a dodgy stat). The two currently look not entwined at all.
> 
> The hardship caused by the restrictions has got to be looked at as well.


The hardship caused by restrictions definitely has to be looked at yes. However, I personally feel that health comes before any other hardship. It is not only the people dying from covid complications. It is the strain that cases put on an already under-funded, crumbling health service. Appointments are pushed back, procedures cancelled, waiting list times increase, staff are pushed over their limit. This impacts anyone who utilises healthcare, which is the majority of people. There is a butterfly effect caused by these cases, and that butterfly effect often hits vulnerable people the hardest. Say you need a short-stay in hospital to have a procedure done but it is pushed back as there is a lack of beds due to patients with covid- what effect could that pushback have on your health? You finally get a bed in the ward and post-procedure your status rapidly declines and you need intensive care. Unfortunately, the beds in the ICU are full and so you must stay on your current ward. What impacts could happen then?

The isolation caused by these restrictions is damaging, I am not denying that. People are not selfish for wanting to get back to normality. What I do find selfish is people prioritising a holiday or a day down at the pub over peoples health and lives. Have a walk with friends/relatives while socially distancing with masks. If a walk is too much have a sit in the garden now that it's summer. There are safe ways to manage the impact restrictions have on people.


----------



## margy

I've just been down town shopping at Morrisons. Everyone wore a mask and kept a distance. Maybe we're so used to doing it that it's become second nature.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> I do think at this point they're in a very difficult position in making 'the right' decision


I have thought this all along, simply because this whole thing with the pandemic is really completely unprecedented, so much had to be trial and error for just that reason; and I think most people will admit (reluctantly or otherwise) that our vaccination programme was pretty much first class and left most of the rest of Europe standing.


----------



## Blackadder

margy said:


> I've just been down town shopping at Morrisons. Everyone wore a mask and kept a distance. Maybe we're so used to doing it that it's become second nature.


I've just got back from Tesco & I would say a good 3rd weren't wearing a mask but everyone was keeping a good distance.


----------



## rona

Visited solicitor this morning. She was willing to sit in a room approx 10ft x 10ft without masks....................I was not and both of us wore masks


----------



## Boxer123

I feel very uncomfortable about the prospect of vaccine passports that the government are proposing. It takes away a lot of free choice.


----------



## Siskin

Went to a local village which has a few shops and a Wednesday market. Only a few were wearing masks outside, but everyone seemed to be putting masks on when going into shops


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> I feel very uncomfortable about the prospect of vaccine passports that the government are proposing. It takes away a lot of free choice.


I don't really know where I stand on this.
On one hand we do sort of have compulsory vaccination for other things although obviously not to the same extent. Part of my schooling was abroad and I missed having the bcg, when I returned here school insisted I have it (I don't know if that's a national policy). 
Travel to certain areas of the world require you to have vaccinations.

Honestly though I don't think we need to threaten people into having it currently, uptake is great in the uk. 
I know it's to target the younger age groups where it's dropped off.


----------



## Boxer123

Arny said:


> I don't really know where I stand on this.
> On one hand we do sort of have compulsory vaccination for other things although obviously not to the same extent. Part of my schooling was abroad and I missed having the bcg, when I returned here school insisted I have it (I don't know if that's a national policy).
> Travel to certain areas of the world require you to have vaccinations.
> 
> Honestly though I don't think we need to threaten people into having it currently, uptake is great in the uk.
> I know it's to target the younger age groups where it's dropped off.


Yes I agree about vaccinations you have when going abroad. This I just feel we are going into a territory I'm not comfortable with. 65% of young people have had the jab that to me is quite good.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Yes I agree about vaccinations you have when going abroad. This I just feel we are going into a territory I'm not comfortable with. 65% of young people have had the jab that to me is quite good.


We've had them in Hungary for quite some time. At first you had to show it if for example. you wished to drink your coffee inside the coffee shop. Since the beginning of July though now our infection rate has dropped to fewer than 60 cases a day, certificates are only needed when travelling abroad or in other specific circumstances.

Actually it caused a lot of laughter between the boys trainer and me. Because of a glitch the plastic card could only be issued to citizens but not to residents like me. Even though we both had had ours jabs, Gabor had a plastic card but because I only had a piece of paper, which wasn't acceptable, I had to go outside to drink my coffee. It's since been sorted out.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Boxer123 said:


> I feel very uncomfortable about the prospect of vaccine passports that the government are proposing. It takes away a lot of free choice.


Yup the vaccine uptake in the old and vulnerable have been great, and so far all the people I know in my age group have had it. Plus of the young people who have not had the vaccine, a lot have had covid and built an immunity to it.
To have a vaccine passport would be a slippery slope I think. It excludes those who haven't and is discriminatory. Not to mention on the authoritarian side. 
People have to be free to make a choice, so far they have been able to, and most chose to vaccinate. This just seems a way to coerce the young to take the jab so they can party in September.


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> This I just feel we are going into a territory I'm not comfortable with.


I don't disagree, I just don't know if that's then hypocritical of me as I accept vaccinations being needed for other parts of life.


----------



## CollieSlave

Boxer123 said:


> I feel very uncomfortable about the prospect of vaccine passports that the government are proposing. It takes away a lot of free choice.


Oh Yes! It takes away a lot of free choices!
Like the Free Choice of anti-vax idiots to attend night clubs and other venues;
Like the free choice to attend venues and spread the virus;
Like the free choice to attend venues with symptoms of the virus;
Like the free choice to attend venues as a carrier;
Like the free choice to infect other people who may even have had one or even two jabs!
Gosh: how dare they take away our Free Choices!! How selfish!


----------



## Boxer123

CollieSlave said:


> Oh Yes! It takes away a lot of free choices!
> Like the Free Choice of anti-vax idiots to attend night clubs and other venues;
> Like the free choice to attend venues and spread the virus;
> Like the free choice to attend venues with symptoms of the virus;
> Like the free choice to attend venues as a carrier;
> Like the free choice to infect other people who may even have had one or even two jabs!
> Gosh: how dare they take away our Free Choices!! How selfish!


Very passive aggressive answer. Not everyone who hasn't had the jab are selfish anti vaxers. Some people are scared, some are high risk of allergic reaction. We all lose rights if this goes through.


----------



## CollieSlave

Boxer123 said:


> Very passive aggressive answer. Not everyone who hasn't had the jab are selfish anti vaxers. Some people are scared, some are high risk of allergic reaction. We all lose rights if this goes through.


Granted there are those with totally valid reasons for not having jabs: unfortunately there are a goodly number, evident from numerous and varied media sources, who have no realistic, valid reason to avoid jabs: they just regard it as intruding on their so-called personal freedom or even human rights with no regard to persons they put at risk by spreading the virus as they have no protection.
Which 'rights' exactly do we lose if this goes through?


----------



## HarlequinCat

CollieSlave said:


> Oh Yes! It takes away a lot of free choices!
> Like the Free Choice of anti-vax idiots to attend night clubs and other venues;
> Like the free choice to attend venues and spread the virus;
> Like the free choice to attend venues with symptoms of the virus;
> Like the free choice to attend venues as a carrier;
> Like the free choice to infect other people who may even have had one or even two jabs!
> Gosh: how dare they take away our Free Choices!! How selfish!


 If the majority have a vaccine and very few don't what's the problem? Free choice is important, if you don't have that you don't have a democracy
Yes there are anti vaxers that don't have it, but as already has been said, what about the ones who can't risk taking it. Why should they be penalised for something that could harm them?

The 2 jabbed people are just as likely to pass it on it seems anyway


----------



## StormyThai

I agree @Boxer123 
I have always said that it is an individual decision and people have a right to choose if they want to be vaccinated.
Apparently the clubs won't be accepting negative test results but will accept a "covid passport". If this was about stopping the spread of the virus then why won't they accept a negative test? Especially for those that can't have the vaccine.
I was ok with needing these passports for traveling (as you do with other vaccinations) but I really feel that this is a step too far.

It won't effect me as I am vaccinated and don't go to night clubs but something makes me uneasy about this.


----------



## HarlequinCat

CollieSlave said:


> Granted there are those with totally valid reasons for not having jabs: unfortunately there are a goodly number, evident from numerous and varied media sources, who have no realistic, valid reason to avoid jabs: they just regard it as intruding on their so-called personal freedom or even human rights with no regard to persons they put at risk by spreading the virus as they have no protection.
> Which 'rights' exactly do we lose if this goes through?


To be fair, a lot of young people are getting the jab. What percentage of them aren't? And what media sources?
What rights? What the government is doing is coercive. People have a right to choose not to have a procedure.
If people accept the fact they cannot choose whether to have a vaccine or not, then it sets a precedence for the future. The government at first said they would not have passports. Now they have snuck it in for nightclubs. It wouldn't surprise me if they widened that to pubs or any leisure activity. Or shopping. It is controlling, and that is concerning


----------



## HarlequinCat

I have had my first jab by the way, having my second one very soon.


----------



## Boxer123

CollieSlave said:


> Granted there are those with totally valid reasons for not having jabs: unfortunately there are a goodly number, evident from numerous and varied media sources, who have no realistic, valid reason to avoid jabs: they just regard it as intruding on their so-called personal freedom or even human rights with no regard to persons they put at risk by spreading the virus as they have no protection.
> Which 'rights' exactly do we lose if this goes through?


I think @StormyThai and @HarlequinCat say it better than me. The vaccine has had some unpleasant side effects including death and fnd. Yes not many but it has still happened. Young people will weigh up the risk.

The government ruled out ID cards a few years ago this seems to be going in through the back door.

I would like to have the choice of what goes in my body without being blackmailed. The take up in young people is 65%.

I am double jabbed by the way.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I have never worried about having a ID card of any kind, I just don't understand why people won't have them. Lets face we are on the internet most people have smart phone (I haven't don't have one, if I was younger I would) carry driving licence, bank cards, so they can trace where people are if they want too, so what difference does carrying a ID or covid passport make. 

If you don't have anything to hide what's the problem.


----------



## Siskin

When we lived in Berlin we all had ID cards to allow us to go on and off the bases and tonuse the allies version of the NAAFI. Didn’t bother me having to wave a card to get into places and it won’t now to show I've had the jabs. Will make me feel safer to go into say theatres or whatever.

Yes the vaccinated can still get covid, but it generally a much milder version, also they shed less of the virus then an unvaccinated person with covid who potentially can infect an awful lot of people.


----------



## CollieSlave

StormyThai said:


> I agree @Boxer123
> I have always said that it is an individual decision and people have a right to choose if they want to be vaccinated.
> Apparently the clubs won't be accepting negative test results but will accept a "covid passport". If this was about stopping the spread of the virus then why won't they accept a negative test? Especially for those that can't have the vaccine.
> I was ok with needing these passports for traveling (as you do with other vaccinations) but I really feel that this is a step too far.
> 
> It won't effect me as I am vaccinated and don't go to night clubs but something makes me uneasy about this.


You evidently query whether this 'passport' is, in fact, to stop the spread of the virus: if that is NOT the purpose, what is the purpose? Do you not think, given the alarming escalation in cases, that something must be done to try to control infections? Just look at the photos in the media of the vast hoards of people jammed together, not wearing masks, waiting to enter opening night clubs! Obviously you have the option of refusing vaccination, but given the number of cases and the potential for severe illness and death (alongside which illness and death from the vaccines is utterly negligible compared to, say, the contraceptive pill) it might be considered irresponsible to refuse a vaccine; no doubt you would disagree as cases soar.


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> I have never worried about having a ID card of any kind, I just don't understand why people won't have them. Lets face we are on the internet most people have smart phone (I haven't don't have one, if I was younger I would) carry driving licence, bank cards, so they can trace where people are if they want too, so what difference does carrying a ID or covid passport make.
> 
> If you don't have anything to hide what's the problem.


I may be wrong, but I don't think it's the idea of carrying a passport that's the problem as such, more the idea that the government are, with the passports, telling people 'hey, if you want to go to a night club, or go to the pub (and wherever else needs a passport to get in), you have to have been jabbed', which means you either have to have a jab you (maybe genuinely) are scared of having, or if having the jab could be worse for you than not have it, you end up loosing your rights and your freedom to do things because you can't risk the jab.


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> I may be wrong, but I don't think it's the idea of carrying a passport that's the problem as such, more the idea that the government are, with the passports, telling people 'hey, if you want to go to a night club, or go to the pub (and wherever else needs a passport to get in), you have to have been jabbed', which means you either have to have a jab you (maybe genuinely) are scared of having, or if having the jab could be worse for you than not have it, you end up loosing your rights and your freedom to do things because you can't risk the jab.


Exactly it's not showing ID it's what you have to do to get the ID.

There seems to be a lot of focus on nightclubbers yet 60000 people in a football stadium was ok.


----------



## StormyThai

CollieSlave said:


> You evidently query whether this 'passport' is, in fact, to stop the spread of the virus: if that is NOT the purpose, what is the purpose? Do you not think, given the alarming escalation in cases, that something must be done to try to control infections? Just look at the photos in the media of the vast hoards of people jammed together, not wearing masks, waiting to enter opening night clubs! Obviously you have the option of refusing vaccination, but given the number of cases and the potential for severe illness and death (alongside which illness and death from the vaccines is utterly negligible compared to, say, the contraceptive pill) it might be considered irresponsible to refuse a vaccine; no doubt you would disagree as cases soar.


If you read my post and all previous posts about the subjects of masks and controlling the virus and then add to the fact that I am double jabbed and have been for a while due to medical issues that make me a risk, then you will find all your questions are answered (including the "I don't know what the purpose is" why will they not accept negative test results then?) and there really was no need for your little rant at me.

I am jabbed, I still wear a mask and I social distance still to the point of not visiting my dad because he is in a different county


----------



## CollieSlave

ForestWomble said:


> I may be wrong, but I don't think it's the idea of carrying a passport that's the problem as such, more the idea that the government are, with the passports, telling people 'hey, if you want to go to a night club, or go to the pub (and wherever else needs a passport to get in), you have to have been jabbed', which means you either have to have a jab you (maybe genuinely) are scared of having, or if having the jab could be worse for you than not have it, you end up loosing your rights and your freedom to do things because you can't risk the jab.


The Government tells people 'hey, if you want to drive a car, you have to take a test and hold a licence': some people ignore this but the vast majority don't. 'Hey, if you want to travel abroad you have to have a passport' - people accept this. If you want to go to a nightclub (or whatever) get jabbed - you don't HAVE to go to a nightclub. The enormous risks to lives of yourself and others and well being if the virus is caught surely outweighs refusing the vaccine and the use of a so-called 'passport' because it erodes your so-called 'rights'. Obviously some people should not/could not have the vaccine for health reasons, just as some people cannot do other things for health reasons e.g. driving a car.


----------



## Blackadder

CollieSlave said:


> You evidently query whether this 'passport' is, in fact, to stop the spread of the virus: if that is NOT the purpose, what is the purpose? Do you not think, given the alarming escalation in cases, that something must be done to try to control infections? Just look at the photos in the media of the vast hoards of people jammed together, not wearing masks, waiting to enter opening night clubs! Obviously you have the option of refusing vaccination, but given the number of cases and the potential for severe illness and death (alongside which illness and death from the vaccines is utterly negligible compared to, say, the contraceptive pill) it might be considered irresponsible to refuse a vaccine; no doubt you would disagree as cases soar.


What is it's purpose indeed? Given that younger people are far, far less at risk from covid & that 95+ % of us oldies/vulnerable have been double jabbed & are much less likely to get serious symptoms, what is the purpose? You tell me!

You mention the option of refusing the vaccine &, quite rightly, it's a personal choice but comparing it with the "pill" is the wrong analogy. There are other forms of contraception but the Gov has ruled out anything other than a vaccine passport... to get into Wimbledon it was either proof of two jabs OR a negative test (Ascot was the same I believe)... why has the option of providing a negative test been removed?

To me, this is insidious & a slippery slope into god knows what. You're medical records are yours & your Doctors business, nobody elses


----------



## Boxer123

Blackadder said:


> What is it's purpose indeed? Given that younger people are far, far less at risk from covid & that 95+ % of us oldies/vulnerable have been double jabbed & are much less likely to get serious symptoms, what is the purpose? You tell me!
> 
> You mention the option of refusing the vaccine &, quite rightly, it's a personal choice but comparing it with the "pill" is the wrong analogy. There are other forms of contraception but the Gov has ruled out anything other than a vaccine passport... to get into Wimbledon it was either proof of two jabs OR a negative test (Ascot was the same I believe)... why has the option of providing a negative test been removed?
> 
> To me, this is insidious & a slippery slope into god knows what. You're medical records are yours & your Doctors business, nobody elses


Claps hands ! Are we trust this government to be doing this for the right reasons?


----------



## Gemmaa

I don't understand how it's okay to open now, when most people aren't fully vaccinated anyway, but suddenly in September it's dangerous and you MUST be vaccinated to get in? 

Conspiracy theorists will be having a field day!


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> To be fair, a lot of young people are getting the jab.


They are indeed: a few weeks back, end of May, I went past Twickenham Stadium and there were huge numbers of hi-viz ''marshalls'' and queues of people and queues of traffic also - I was surprised as my son normally alerts me if there is a rugby match (being a rugby supporter) so I can choose not to take the car out when there are thousands of cars/coaches heading there (it holds 82,000 max). I found out later in the local paper that the Stadium on that day had been a ''walk-in vaccination centre'' for 18-25-year-olds and that the take-up was such that unfortunately they ran out of vaccine (which was obviously a disappointment for the ones who had been queuing in the heat for a couple of hours). So, yes, you are obviously right, many of the younger ones _are _having it where possible and if they can get it.


----------



## Blackadder

CollieSlave said:


> The enormous risks to lives of yourself and others and well being if the virus is caught surely outweighs refusing the vaccine and the use of a so-called 'passport' because it erodes your so-called 'rights'. *Obviously some people should not/could not have the vaccine for health reasons*, just as some people cannot do other things for health reasons e.g. driving a car.


So those people are automatically excluded from night clubs & who knows where else later (pubs, theatres, cinemas?) if this goes through? Through no fault of their own! The whole idea is devisive & discriminatory & should be dropped NOW!


----------



## Boxer123

Gemmaa said:


> I don't understand how it's okay to open now, when most people aren't fully vaccinated anyway, but suddenly in September it's dangerous and you MUST be vaccinated to get in?
> 
> Conspiracy theorists will be having a field day!


I know I'm going to get me a tin foil hat !


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I have never worried about having a ID card of any kind, I just don't understand why people won't have them. Lets face we are on the internet most people have smart phone (I haven't don't have one, if I was younger I would) carry driving licence, bank cards, so they can trace where people are if they want too, so what difference does carrying a ID or covid passport make.
> 
> If you don't have anything to hide what's the problem.


 Absolutely - they know what you are doing anyway. I go online, maybe to check the weather, and suddenly I am asked if I want to buy such and such a cat food from whomsoever - that Zooplus is now stocking (or not stocking) **** or that you can get Felix from Petshop.co.uk for an enticing amount. . . Big Brother is watching you constantly. Even when you send a WhatsApp to someone in the Canaries, they know what you are saying, and someone your friend mentions suddenly appears on FB as a ''friend'' suggestion. You just have to be careful what you say. You never know who might repeat in XXX years time and accuse you of sexism or racism!


----------



## £54etgfb6

For those not comfortable with possible requiring evidence of vaccine to do certain things in the future, what is your opinion on the existing proof of vaccination to visit certain countries? I am referring to yellow fever, hepatitis, routine childhood/booster vaccinations, etc. These have been required for years prior to the pandemic and- as far as I’m aware- if an area requires proof and you cannot provide it you aren’t permitted entry. Seems to me that the situations are similar, to enter a place you require proof of vaccination, you can choose to not be vaccinated or provide proof but it means you won’t be allowed entry, entry is not a requirement to your survival and is not essential. Just wondering if people view these scenarios differently?


----------



## Blackadder

Yes, I do view that differently. It's their country, their rules for external visitors... do they have the same rules for their own citizens Edited: who want to go to their local bar /market?


----------



## ForestWomble

CollieSlave said:


> The Government tells people 'hey, if you want to drive a car, you have to take a test and hold a licence': some people ignore this but the vast majority don't. 'Hey, if you want to travel abroad you have to have a passport' - people accept this. If you want to go to a nightclub (or whatever) get jabbed - you don't HAVE to go to a nightclub. The enormous risks to lives of yourself and others and well being if the virus is caught surely outweighs refusing the vaccine and the use of a so-called 'passport' because it erodes your so-called 'rights'. Obviously some people should not/could not have the vaccine for health reasons, just as some people cannot do other things for health reasons e.g. driving a car.


As @Blackadder said, does that mean that those people who can't have the vaccine be refused entry to goodness knows where if this passport thing goes through? People who probably have a limited set of things they can do anyway find they can no longer enjoy going to the cinema for example because there is a very real chance the vaccine could kill them / end up with them very poorly.


----------



## HarlequinCat

CollieSlave said:


> The Government tells people 'hey, if you want to drive a car, you have to take a test and hold a licence': some people ignore this but the vast majority don't. 'Hey, if you want to travel abroad you have to have a passport' - people accept this. If you want to go to a nightclub (or whatever) get jabbed - you don't HAVE to go to a nightclub. The enormous risks to lives of yourself and others and well being if the virus is caught surely outweighs refusing the vaccine and the use of a so-called 'passport' because it erodes your so-called 'rights'. Obviously some people should not/could not have the vaccine for health reasons, just as some people cannot do other things for health reasons e.g. driving a car.


Where is there a need for a vaccination passport when, according to the ONS, 91% of adults have antibodies either from infection or vaccine. Surely there is no need in that instance.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...antibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021


----------



## MilleD

Gemmaa said:


> I don't understand how it's okay to open now, when most people aren't fully vaccinated anyway, but suddenly in September it's dangerous and you MUST be vaccinated to get in?
> 
> Conspiracy theorists will be having a field day!


This is because by that point everyone would have had the option of being vaccinated isn't it?

Edit to add - it's hardly fair to refuse admission to someone who hasn't had the chance to get jabbed yet. So they need to wait until everyone has had the chance to.


----------



## MilleD

ForestWomble said:


> As @Blackadder said, does that mean that those people who can't have the vaccine be refused entry to goodness knows where if this passport thing goes through? People who probably have a limited set of things they can do anyway find they can no longer enjoy going to the cinema for example because there is a very real chance the vaccine could kill them / end up with them very poorly.


I imagine there would be exemptions for people who genuinely can't have it due to medical reasons?


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Absolutely - they know what you are doing anyway. I go online, maybe to check the weather, and suddenly I am asked if I want to buy such and such a cat food from whomsoever - that Zooplus is now stocking (or not stocking) **** or that you can get Felix from Petshop.co.uk for an enticing amount. . . Big Brother is watching you constantly. Even when you send a WhatsApp to someone in the Canaries, they know what you are saying, and someone your friend mentions suddenly appears on FB as a ''friend'' suggestion. You just have to be careful what you say. You never know who might repeat in XXX years time and accuse you of sexism or racism!


This started when Whats App was acquired by Facebook so everything is linked. It still sometimes surprises me the 'suggestions' it gives though.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> Exactly it's not showing ID it's what you have to do to get the ID.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of focus on nightclubbers yet 60000 people in a football stadium was ok.


They had things they had to follow at Wembley.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Went down to Sainsbury's for when they opened this morning, everyone expect two people were wearing a masks and they might have had a good reason or maybe not.


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> They had things they had to follow at Wembley.


But not forced vaccination it just makes me so uncomfortable I won't change my mind on this one. You give away to much as a society you can't get it back.


----------



## Happy Paws2

We have just had an e-mail from Sanisbury's and although they don't have too anymore, they are still keeping us on their priority on-line shopping.

*Well Done Sainsbury's* it makes us feel a lot happier knowing we don't have to go out if we don't feel safe.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Went down to Sainsbury's for when they opened this morning, everyone expect two people were wearing a masks and they might have had a good reason or maybe not.


I visited ours a few days ago most wearing masks and keeping distance.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> But not forced vaccination it just makes me so uncomfortable I won't change my mind on this one. You give away to much as a society you can't get it back.


I do agree.

It's one thing to have mandatory vaccs for travelling as that is a personal choice where you go, but restrictions on day to day normal activities is going too far imo.

I do, however, believe that schools can and do insist on childhood jabs, including MMR before acceptance (someone correct me if I'm wrong??).

Education is way more important than entry to a nightclub - so it does seem draconian (again, if I'm not making it up ).

ETA: think schools can't but private nurseries could if they choose.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> I do agree.
> 
> It's one thing to have mandatory vaccs for travelling as that is a personal choice where you go, but restrictions on day to day normal activities is going too far imo.
> 
> I do, however, believe that schools can and do insist on childhood jabs, including MMR before acceptance (someone correct me if I'm wrong??).
> 
> Education is way more important than entry to a nightclub - so it does seem draconian (again, if I'm not making it up ).


I've not heard of schools insisting on jabs but could be wrong. You have to sign to agree to jabs given in school (flu vaccine)


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> I've not heard of schools insisting on jabs but could be wrong. You have to sign to agree to jabs given in school (flu vaccine)


I edited my post …. Schools no …. Private nurseries yes (I think)


----------



## Nonnie

I do feel many are being forced or coerced into being vaccinated. It should be a personal choice, and your liberties, rights and accesses should not be compromised if you choose not to have the jabs. Especially when it comes to essential services.

My dentist and physio wont see clients who have not been double jabbed.


----------



## Isolette

Blackadder said:


> So those people are automatically excluded from night clubs & who knows where else later (pubs, theatres, cinemas?) if this goes through? Through no fault of their own! The whole idea is devisive & discriminatory & should be dropped NOW!


I see your point but this is to prevent infection . I cannot take vaccines and am Ok to live with the needs and consequences of that in a pandemic situation . You write as if we were in ordinary times. and this will change and normalise when the pandemic is over; And the more we adhere to restrictions the sooner that will be. My family has lost seven to covid. So I see it from a different angle. And the rules are wise. I abide by them without fuss or objections. A wise precaution in times of pandemic is not discriminatory.


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> I've not heard of schools insisting on jabs but could be wrong. You have to sign to agree to jabs given in school (flu vaccine)


Like I said in my previous post, school (two different ones) insisted myself and my sister have the bcg.
We had missed having it in school here as we were living abroad.
I've tried to search for the compulsory element but apparently giving the bcg to school children was scrapped just after I had to have it so that's all that seems to come up.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Arny said:


> Like I said in my previous post, school (two different ones) insisted myself and my sister have the bcg.
> We had missed having it in school here as we were living abroad.
> I've tried to search for the compulsory element but apparently giving the bcg to school children was scrapped just after I had to have it so that's all that seems to come up.


I remember having BCG but being a kid I didn't take any notice if it was compulsory. 
Afterwards I remember some people had a really sore arm and water blisters there and they all went around punching each other in the arm . I managed to avoid that somehow


----------



## Siskin

With the BCG they gave a tester in the forearm first to see if there was any reaction due to a natural immunity. This was a circle of pinpricks. I heard that some children were deliberately scratching or making marks on their arm in order to make it look like a reaction in order to avoid having the jab. Don’t know if they got away with it. Mine did have a reaction so I didn’t have the jab. There’s one or two other diseases I had a natural immunity to as a child, can’t remember what now.
Looking at the procedure for testing cattle for TB, there is a distinct similarity.


----------



## Arny

HarlequinCat said:


> I remember having BCG but being a kid I didn't take any notice if it was compulsory.


I remember as I definitely wouldn't have gone through with having it otherwise.
My mum also confirmed to me that I did remember correctly.
It was also the injection, or should I say the nurse giving it!, that really ramped up my phobia.
Edited to add I don't know if the fact I was returning from living in the US had anything to do with the requirement.


----------



## Nonnie

No vaccine is compulsory. A child can not be excluded from the education system for not having them.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9076/


----------



## Arny

Nonnie said:


> No vaccine is compulsory. A child can not be excluded from the education system for not having them.
> 
> https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9076/


Thanks for that.
I have no idea then why they insisted but they certainly did.
I did put in my original comment that I didn't know if it were national policy but surely a state school shouldn't have made it mandatory either.


----------



## CollieSlave

Nonnie said:


> No vaccine is compulsory. A child can not be excluded from the education system for not having them.


This is perfectly correct. To force or coerce a child to have any injection constitutes physical assault on the child. In the past (and present!) there has certainly been social pressure to "encourage" parents/children to partake of vaccinations and, undoubtedly, this caused some people to have their child vaccinated against their better judgement. And the fact that vaccinations were/are voluntary would not necessarily be made clear by the school or medical officers: it would be a brave and determined parent to challenge "the system". I speak from experience as a (retired) headteacher.


----------



## Happy Paws2

[QUOTE="Nonnie, post: 1065796775, member: 20098

My dentist and physio wont see clients who have not been double jabbed.[/QUOTE]

Personally I don't blame them, I don't want to go never anyone who hasn't had the jab, I'm worried about them carry it and catching it from them.

Unless you have an allergic to certain mediations I don't understand why anyone wouldn't have it.


----------



## Boxer123

Cases are dropping dare I be optimistic


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> Cases are dropping dare I be optimistic


Ive been noticing that, fingers crossed


----------



## Guest

Boxer123 said:


> Cases are dropping dare I be optimistic


I hope it isn't the weekend lull that we have seen in figures before?

Remaining optimistic though.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So. Imagine I was someone who didn't believe in vaccinating but I still wanted to go to an event/to a club and the event/club had the option to simply show a negative Covid lateral flow test on the NHS app. However, you know what, I don't believe in that either, so I'm just going to open the test, scan the QR code, do absolutely nothing in terms of testing and report it as negative...and there is my official NHS proof of a negative lateral flow test.

Bring on Goodwood, Latitude, the local nightclub...

We decided to see if we could "fool the system" today by doing the above with a lateral flow test. It transpires that we can. It's not helping me feel better about going out into crowded places knowing that in fact any requirements are completely side-step-able. It's also not filling me with confidence for work - we are asking people to do the recommended twice weekly LFs so that if they are coming to appointments/for c-section/scans/procedures but who knows what they will report. 

And yes, I am double jabbed but for some reason I'm still so worried about it.


----------



## rona

Boxer123 said:


> Cases are dropping dare I be optimistic


I think they went up because of mixing when the football was on, going down because of masks and distancing, but of course that's finished now, so will start to rise again this coming week


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> Cases are dropping dare I be optimistic


I don't think I'd hang out the flags just yet.

Hungary lifted most restrictions a couple of weeks before the UK. The number of new cases has dropped to double digits and deaths are negligible. To date, Hungary has largely escaped the Delta variant. We have been warned though not to be complacent and to expect a 4th wave in September. And from August anyone who wishes to, can have a third booster jab of the vaccine.

If however, you look at other countries such as the US, cases are once again increasing at an alarming rate and I fear before too long the same will happen in the UK and Hungary.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...rns-of-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-1.4622692

*US senior health official warns of 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'*


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I don't think I'd hang out the flags just yet.
> 
> Hungary lifted most restrictions a couple of weeks before the UK. The number of new cases has dropped to double digits and deaths are negligible. To date, Hungary has largely escaped the Delta variant. We have been warned though not to be complacent and to expect a 4th wave in September. And from August anyone who wishes to, can have a third booster jab of the vaccine.
> 
> If however, you look at other countries such as the US, cases are once again increasing at an alarming rate and I fear before too long the same will happen in the UK and Hungary.
> 
> https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...rns-of-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-1.4622692
> 
> *US senior health official warns of 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'*


America have had a low uptake of the vaccine it's much higher in the U.K. I'm sure we will have another wave but I reserve the right to be a teenie bit hopeful


----------



## simplysardonic

I had to facepalm over a vehemently antivax friend who is currently posting on FB complaining about her covid symptoms:Facepalm


----------



## Siskin

simplysardonic said:


> I had to facepalm over a vehemently antivax friend who is currently posting on FB complaining about her covid symptoms:Facepalm


Does she regret at all not having the vaccine?

My son won't have the vaccine and just drives me up the wall with his reasoning. He's now saying he never wore a mask and don't spend all his time washing his hands and he didn't get the virus, therefore it's all a hoax. Well ain't he the lucky one


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> *Does she regret at all not having the vaccine?*
> 
> My son won't have the vaccine and just drives me up the wall with his reasoning. He's now saying he never wore a mask and don't spend all his time washing his hands and he didn't get the virus, therefore it's all a hoax. Well ain't he the lucky one


Not that I've seen!

It's hard when loved ones have listened to conspiracy theories, but as has been said before, we can only act to protect ourselves.

I think the virus is just another thing dividing society at the moment & it's sad


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Does she regret at all not having the vaccine?
> 
> My son won't have the vaccine and just drives me up the wall with his reasoning. He's now saying he never wore a mask and don't spend all his time washing his hands and he didn't get the virus, therefore it's all a hoax. Well ain't he the lucky one


My best friend's granddaughter was adamant she wasn't going to have the vaccine as she claimed it would affect her fertility. She was then offered a well paid job, but one of the conditions of her being accepted was that she was vaccinated.

Quick rethink and off she went to get the jab. Who says that money doesn't talk?.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Does she regret at all not having the vaccine?
> 
> My son won't have the vaccine and just drives me up the wall with his reasoning. He's now saying he never wore a mask and don't spend all his time washing his hands and he didn't get the virus, therefore it's all a hoax. Well ain't he the lucky one


Don't you feel like beating him over the head?

My son's a type 1 diabetic and really should lose some weight, stop smoking and give up alcohol, but will he listen to anything I, my DIL or my granddaughter says? He says the nurse who monitors his diabetes tells him there's no need and he's doing well as he is.

I despair!.


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Don't you feel like beating him over the head?
> !.


Often.

A friend is having similar conversations with her DIL. She is a psychiatrist, so has medical training, but won't listen to anything else other then a group chat she's on and cannot see that she puts her in laws health, who are in there 70's with medical issues, at risk


----------



## O2.0

The vaccine affecting fertility is a big hesitancy in the 20 somethings here too unfortunately. 
Then there are the looneys saying the vaccine is the mark of the beast from the end times. And just when you want to dismiss them as off the wall looneys no one really listens to, you see thousands of likes on the post :Arghh:Arghh


----------



## Boxer123

What doesn’t help is the government calling people selfish if they don’t have it. No one trusts this government they should stop trying to bully people and let the scientists talk.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> What doesn't help is the government calling people selfish if they don't have it. No one trusts this government they should stop trying to bully people and let the scientists talk.


I don't think it makes any difference. Our government has never put any pressure on getting people to have the vaccine, but you still see the same reluctance and conspiracy theories as you do in other countries/


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I don't think it makes any difference. Our government has never put any pressure on getting people to have the vaccine, but you still see the same reluctance and conspiracy theories as you do in other countries/


A lot of people I know who haven't had it aren't conspiracy theorists they have had other vaccines. They are just scared and don't trust it. IMO being bullied with passports and called selfish by the most corrupt government in many years wont help. People need more information from scientists not silly adverts about having it.


----------



## Arny

Magyarmum said:


> I don't think I'd hang out the flags just yet.
> 
> Hungary lifted most restrictions a couple of weeks before the UK. The number of new cases has dropped to double digits and deaths are negligible. To date, Hungary has largely escaped the Delta variant. We have been warned though not to be complacent and to expect a 4th wave in September. And from August anyone who wishes to, can have a third booster jab of the vaccine.
> 
> If however, you look at other countries such as the US, cases are once again increasing at an alarming rate and I fear before too long the same will happen in the UK and Hungary.
> 
> https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...rns-of-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-1.4622692
> 
> *US senior health official warns of 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'*


The case rate doesn't matter so much (although of course long covid is still a concern and the risk of it mutating quicker but without the world being vaccinated there's not much we can do about that) so long as they're not translated to hospitalisations and deaths, which it isn't currently.
I read at its height in January 1 in 60 were in hospital but it's now 1 in 1,000.
They think the vaccine prevents hospital admission by 92-98%.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

People deal with it differently but sometimes it takes a lot to understand.
Friend of a friend ended up in hospital after catching it. Refused the vaccine.
Regularly visited said friend who is undergoing cancer treatment and knew they weren’t vaccinated.
I’ve distanced myself because it’s just beyond me.


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> Then there are the looneys saying the vaccine is the mark of the beast from the end times. And just when you want to dismiss them as off the wall looneys no one really listens to, you see thousands of likes on the post :Arghh:Arghh


None of 'em have actually read their Bible then, as the mark of the beast is given in either the forehead or the right hand - if someone tries to give a vaccine in either of those areas, they're doing it wrong!



Boxer123 said:


> A lot of people I know who haven't had it aren't conspiracy theorists they have had other vaccines. They are just scared and don't trust it. IMO being bullied with passports and called selfish by the most corrupt government in many years wont help. People need more information from scientists not silly adverts about having it.


If people are scared, then they're not listening rationally to the medics or scientists anyway. Sure, there's a risk with any vaccine, but the risk is minute compared with the damage covid can do.

Personally I don't have a problem if places want to insist people prove vaccination (or prove they are medically exempt) before admission. People who are able to have the vaccine have a choice to as to whether they have the it or not, but they also accept that others also have a choice as to whether or not they wish to allow non-vaccinated people into their premises, particularly if there will be a lot of people in close contact. I've only had my first jab so far (because of a wierd conflux of circumstances delayed it, not by intent), so I'm still staying pretty solitary for the sake of myself and others. I don't plan in changing much after having my second dose either.

And, for the record, I don't like having injections at all, but in this instance I believe it is necessary I have it in order to protect others.


----------



## CollieSlave

Jesthar said:


> None of 'em have actually read their Bible then, as the mark of the beast is given in either the forehead or the right hand - if someone tries to give a vaccine in either of those areas, they're doing it wrong!
> 
> If people are scared, then they're not listening rationally to the medics or scientists anyway. Sure, there's a risk with any vaccine, but the risk is minute compared with the damage covid can do.
> 
> Personally I don't have a problem if places want to insist people prove vaccination (or prove they are medically exempt) before admission. People who are able to have the vaccine have a choice to as to whether they have the it or not, but they also accept that others also have a choice as to whether or not they wish to allow non-vaccinated people into their premises, particularly if there will be a lot of people in close contact. I've only had my first jab so far (because of a wierd conflux of circumstances delayed it, not by intent), so I'm still staying pretty solitary for the sake of myself and others. I don't plan in changing much after having my second dose either.
> 
> And, for the record, I don't like having injections at all, but in this instance I believe it is necessary I have it in order to protect others.


An eminently rational, accurate and carefully thought out post. Thank you for that: much appreciated.


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> People who are able to have the vaccine have a choice to as to whether they have the it or not, but they also accept that others also have a choice as to whether or not they wish to allow non-vaccinated people into their premises, particularly if there will be a lot of people in close contact.


The 1st bit I totally agree with but the 2nd, underlined, part is where it all goes Pete Tong! The Gov are considering making this mandatory & passing on the duty of policing it to the venue organiser or pub landlord with a legal liability if they don't....that takes away any choice a landlord (for example) might have/want.

Given that it's known the vaccine doesn't totally prevent infection or does it prevent those vaccinated & infected from spreading it (though it does reduce the risk) & that people vaccinated are still being admitted to Hospital, I have to ask myself... what is the point of a vaccine passport? What is it for, where is the scientific evidence for it (after all we're following the science) & where does it lead?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The things that I am seeing as a result of Covid in my job are absolutely terrifying. 

Please please have your jabs. Oh my goodness.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Blackadder said:


> The 1st bit I totally agree with but the 2nd, underlined, part is where it all goes Pete Tong! The Gov are considering making this mandatory & passing on the duty of policing it to the venue organiser or pub landlord with a legal liability if they don't....that takes away any choice a landlord (for example) might have/want.
> 
> Given that it's known the vaccine doesn't totally prevent infection or does it prevent those vaccinated & infected from spreading it (though it does reduce the risk) & that people vaccinated are still being admitted to Hospital, I have to ask myself... what is the point of a vaccine passport? What is it for, where is the scientific evidence for it (after all we're following the science) & where does it lead?


As you said, it reduces the risk of those vaccinated becoming 1) infected and 2) if infected, infecting others. In this world at the moment everyone is a liability- anyone could have covid and anyone could spread it to someone else. The vaccine passport would, in my mind, show that you are less of a liability. The possibility of someone with a vaccine passport having covid and infecting others cannot be ruled out, but the possibility is much much less likely than the same scenario but with someone who has not had either vaccines. I believe that to an extent it is also to increase uptake, because some people will not look at the science behind the vaccines/covid and will not consider vaccination at all until their hobbies/downtime are affected. Additionally, for travel I think a major benefit in terms of proving you are less of a liability is that countries that are less equipped to handle pandemics will perhaps be able to accept tourists again.


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> *Given that it's known the vaccine doesn't totally prevent infection or does it prevent those vaccinated & infected from spreading it (though it does reduce the risk) & that people vaccinated are still being admitted to Hospital*, I have to ask myself... what is the point of a vaccine passport? What is it for, where is the scientific evidence for it (after all we're following the science) & where does it lead?


With respect, I've seen that argument thrown around a lot, and it makes absolutely no sense.

No vaccine is 100% effective. They never have been, and likely never will be - that's scientific fact. What they do is drastically reduce the risks - of infection, of passing on the infection, of serious illness, of long term detrimental health effects, of death.

So why bother? For the same reason we bother about a lot of other things that aren't 100% effective, but greatly reduce risks.

Motorbike helmets, for example. Do they 100% prevent the risk of head injury? No, they don't - but we still have a law requiring riders to wear them, because they greatly reduce the risk of serious injury or death.

Seatbelts, for another. Do they 100% stop people being injured in car crashes? No, they don't - but we still have laws requiring drivers and passengers to wear them, because they greatly reduce the risk of serious illness or death.

Now, we don't require a passport for bike helmets and seatbelts, of course - but, then again, they are visible things so we can see perfectly well if someone is wearing one or not. You can't see if someone has had a vaccine, though, so another way of knowing is required. That's why we have to provide evidence that we have had certain vaccinations before we can travel to certain countries already, and why our dogs and cats have to have proof of vaccination before they can travel or be boarded in a kennels or cattery.

Given that Covid-19 is far nastier and far more easily transmissible than anything that has been encountered in the history of modern medicine, I'd therefore say there is a very sensible point to having a vaccine/exemption passport.


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> Given that Covid-19 is far nastier and far more easily transmissible than anything that has been encountered in the history of modern medicine, I'd therefore say there is a very sensible point to having a vaccine/exemption passport.


You haven't answered my question, why? Is there any scientific proof?


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> You haven't answered my question, why? Is there any scientific proof?


Apologies, but I don't understand the question. What specific scentific proof are you after? That vaccinated people don't spread the virus as much? That unvaccinated people spread it more, and are more at risk of getting critically ill? That having a lot of people in close proximity for an extended period of time is far less risky if everyone is vaccinated?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Well, my 24 year old son and his peers are wanting to get their 2 jabs in by the end of September so they don’t miss out on getting on with enjoying their lives.

Most of them, I believe, are also happy to “do the right thing” for those around them. Primarily, to help keep people out of Covid wards or dying of the virus.

I don’t think they really believe they are at risk of serious illness or death themselves because of their age.

Whatever their motivation, I’m just glad they are getting their jabs.


----------



## Siskin

From what I understand vaccinated people have less of a viral load which is a) why they don’t get so ill and b) are less infectious. It’s the viral load that a person comes into contact with that determines whether they are infected with covid. Less viral load, less spread of infection


----------



## Boxer123

Jesthar said:


> None of 'em have actually read their Bible then, as the mark of the beast is given in either the forehead or the right hand - if someone tries to give a vaccine in either of those areas, they're doing it wrong!
> 
> If people are scared, then they're not listening rationally to the medics or scientists anyway. Sure, there's a risk with any vaccine, but the risk is minute compared with the damage covid can do.
> 
> Personally I don't have a problem if places want to insist people prove vaccination (or prove they are medically exempt) before admission. People who are able to have the vaccine have a choice to as to whether they have the it or not, but they also accept that others also have a choice as to whether or not they wish to allow non-vaccinated people into their premises, particularly if there will be a lot of people in close contact. I've only had my first jab so far (because of a wierd conflux of circumstances delayed it, not by intent), so I'm still staying pretty solitary for the sake of myself and others. I don't plan in changing much after having my second dose either.
> 
> And, for the record, I don't like having injections at all, but in this instance I believe it is necessary I have it in order to protect others.


For the record I have been vaccinated I'm not saying people shouldn't have it however I don't think the science is being presented clearly enough.

My point was that if the government want to stop the conspiracy theorist they should stop going on TV calling people selfish, threatening people with passports and producing creepy propaganda adverts and acknowledge there is a genuine fear. People don't trust them anymore so why trust them over this ?

I'm not sure how clear the science is lots of people saying it reduces risk of spreading how about giving us a general ball park figure how much does it reduce it ? Simple statistics would help.

Proir to my first vaccine it was presented in the media that AZ and clotting there was no link and that clots were less than in the general population. Had the first one then oops actually it does under 40s should have a choice. I'm under 40 great. So I was genuinely scared about getting the second one. Yes the risk is small but it doesn't make me selfish to be worried.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> I'm not sure how clear the science is lots of people saying it reduces risk of spreading how about giving us a general ball park figure how much does it reduce it ? Simple statistics would help.
> 
> Perhaps these articles would help to answer your question.
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02054-z
> 
> *COVID vaccines slash viral spread - but Delta is an unknown*
> 
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ccine-benefit-were-not-talking-about-enough1/
> 
> *The Crucial Vaccine Benefit We're Not Talking about Enough*


----------



## Magyarmum

@Boxer123

Another article you might like to read related to your concerns about blood clots.

https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/...OVID-19-vaccines-show-similar-safety-profiles


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> @Boxer123
> 
> Another article you might like to read related to your concerns about blood clots.
> 
> https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/...OVID-19-vaccines-show-similar-safety-profiles


It's to late for me I've already had two jabs. I know the risk is small but so is my chance of dying from Covid. I can understand why others are wary.

Those who have died from the vaccine have remained nameless in the media seen as collateral damage. It's very sad. I'm not saying don't have it I have I just can emphasise with people being scared.

Most aren't conspiracy theory nuts they are people trying to make a decision in what has been a terrifying year. It took me three attempts and lots of tears to get my butt in for my second jab may sound silly but anxiety over drive.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Why have a vaccine passport when even those who aren't vaccinated have immunity through contracting and surviving it anyway. There is a small, very small number of unvaccinated that don't have antibodies to this virus now.



Siskin said:


> From what I understand vaccinated people have less of a viral load which is a) why they don't get so ill and b) are less infectious. It's the viral load that a person comes into contact with that determines whether they are infected with covid. Less viral load, less spread of infection


That is the same with someone who has already had the virus too . Which makes sense as they have made their own anti bodies etc.

The vast majority of people have had the vaccine or caught the virus, over 80%. Looks like we have seen the worst of it now. Especially in this last wave with hospitalisations and deaths being a fraction of the last wave


----------



## Siskin

HarlequinCat said:


> Why have a vaccine passport when even those who aren't vaccinated have immunity through contracting and surviving it anyway. There is a small, very small number of unvaccinated that don't have antibodies to this virus now.
> 
> That is the same with someone who has already had the virus too . Which makes sense as they have made their own anti bodies etc.
> 
> The vast majority of people have had the vaccine or caught the virus, over 80%. Looks like we have seen the worst of it now. Especially in this last wave with hospitalisations and deaths being a fraction of the last wave


The thing is though how do you know someone has had the virus, some have such a light dose that they are barely aware of it and don't even bother getting tested. The only way antibody levels can be measured is by having a blood test. Then you would have to have regular blood tests to detect whether the antibody levels are waning or not. 
The trouble is this virus is new and it's unknown what antibody level is required in order to prevent serious disease.
I can imagine in time these questions will be answered and it will become a lot clearer.

I can understand hesitancy due to fears over the introduction of a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, but we have a lot answers for that. Governments have given huge sums of money in order that research can progress at a fast pace, the dna of covid 19 was known and it was just a matter of introducing it to the base coronavirus mix which has been developed over many years and scientists collaborated their findings with one another something that doesn't often happen.

What I have issues with is the conspiracy theorists who continually change the conspiracy to suit what is actually happening on the ground.


----------



## Magyarmum

Mrs Funkin said:


> The things that I am seeing as a result of Covid in my job are absolutely terrifying.
> 
> Please please have your jabs. Oh my goodness.


I feel for you!

I worked in a South African hospital during the HIV/AIDS epidemic where we had ward upon ward full of dying patients, mostly young.

It used to nearly break my heart to go into the children's ward and see all those poor mites who through no fault of their own were infected with this terrible disease and knowing, (at that time), there was absolutely nothing anyone could do for them. .

Not something I'd ever wish to witness again.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> What I have issues with is the conspiracy theorists who continually change the conspiracy to suit what is actually happening on the ground.


Some people are just crazy but alot are just listening to social media and not using their brains IMO. They are wanting figures and statistics for the virus then screaming 'conspiracy' if information changes.....completely disregarding the fact that this is a brand new virus and research takes time so what we know will be changing all the time.


----------



## SbanR

For those interested, Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on the BBC News Channel (Not BBC 1) at 1330 hours to answer viewers questions


----------



## Magyarmum

Reuters have produced this very interesting world wide Covid tracker. Kept me occupied for ages.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-...aps/countries-and-territories/united-kingdom/


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Given that Covid-19 is far nastier and far more easily transmissible than anything that has been encountered in the history of modern medicine, I'd therefore say there is a very sensible point to having a vaccine/exemption passport.


Measles is far more transmissible than Covid-19, so are mumps, so is rubella, so is smallpox, I think polio too.

The problem is we have forgotten these diseases because the vaccines for them have worked so well. 
I'm old and I grew up in developing countries, I have a smallpox vaccine scar on my arm, I know what measles looks like, my friend had mumps, I'll never forget what his neck looked like and the rag he wore around his head to try to alleviate the pain from the weight of his swollen glands. I knew multiple adults with limps or useless arms from polio - the lucky ones who survived.

Even when the polio vaccine was a live vaccine and there was a chance it could give your child polio, parents felt it was worth the risk and lined up to get their kids inoculated. Now a slight fever after vaccination is enough to deter people.

Unfortunately the truth still for many young people is that Covid-19 is an annoying cold for a few days and nothing to worry about. Every young person I know who has gotten it, either didn't even know they had it or had extremely mild symptoms. It's hard to convince people to take it seriously when their own experience with the disease is so benign. Unless they have lost or nearly lost loved ones, or know someone with long covid, it's just not going to sink in.

I don't know what the solution is. We have mandatory vaccination here in the US, children can't enroll in public school without certain series of vaccines at certain ages. My 18 year olds were required to get the meningitis vaccine before enrolling in university. So we're used to mandatory vaccination for certain spaces. But none of these vaccines were politicized. 
I imagine there will be a massive backlash if public schools in the US start requiring a covid-19 vaccine.


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> For those interested, Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on the BBC News Channel (Not BBC 1) at 1330 hours to answer viewers questions


Have they let him out again? I thought he talked too much truth for the government's liking 


O2.0 said:


> Measles is far more transmissible than Covid-19, so are mumps, so is rubella, so is smallpox, I think polio too.
> 
> The problem is we have forgotten these diseases because the vaccines for them have worked so well.
> I'm old and I grew up in developing countries, I have a smallpox vaccine scar on my arm, I know what measles looks like, my friend had mumps, I'll never forget what his neck looked like and the rag he wore around his head to try to alleviate the pain from the weight of his swollen glands.


I had mumps as a kid. Remember my step mother trying to force feed me baby food because I couldn't swallow, and I _really _didn't feel like eating...

It was a, um, interesting experience .


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> I had mumps as a kid. Remember my step mother trying to force feed me baby food because I couldn't swallow, and I _really _didn't feel like eating...


So you must be old too 

The 20 and 30 year olds today have no clue what mumps even is or how bad it can get.


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> So you must be old too
> 
> The 20 and 30 year olds today have no clue what mumps even is or how bad it can get.


Yep, 48 

I developed a fairly hefty dislike for mashed banana during the episode


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> Have they let him out again? I thought he talked too much truth for the government's liking
> 
> I had mumps as a kid. Remember my step mother trying to force feed me baby food because I couldn't swallow, and I _really _didn't feel like eating...
> 
> It was a, um, interesting experience .


Did you watch? He was excellent, as always.


----------



## Siskin

I had mumps, chicken pox and measles one by one after each other, drove my mum up the wall as I spent most of the time in bed moaning. German measles came the following year
Remember having a polio test, but I had a natural immunity so didn’t have the vaccine, same with smallpox and the BCG
I also had whooping cough as a child, the only thing I missed was scarlet fever


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Yep, 48
> 
> I developed a fairly hefty dislike for mashed banana during the episode


I have a son older than you

I caught measles at 2 years old whilst in hospital having my tonsils removed and nearly died. I've also had mumps and chicken pox which my father caught off me and he was really ill. Oh and whooping cough which was rife amongst the kids in the street where we lived and German measles caught from my young sons..My husband spent a week in hospital suffering from mumps which he also caught from the kids

I had the polio vaccine the BCG at school and as a 16 year old the smallpox jab which was a requirement for visiting the US and Yellow fever for entry into Kenya. And a Tetanus jab after being bitten by a cat.

I've had both my Covid vaccinations and have just booked for my third booster jab which will be a different vaccine from the previous two. I'm terrified .... not of the jab but because I have to go to the city hospital to have it done and it's such a ginormous area I'm afraid I won't be able to find the right building and will forget where I parked my car, I could be wandering around there for ever!


----------



## HarlequinCat

Did anyone have the polio vaccine as a drop they put on your tongue? I was given a bit of fudge after that because it wasn't supposed to taste nice but I didn't notice. I was 10 at the time, they were giving me a tetnus jab because I'd hurt myself and did the polio one at the same time.


----------



## ForestWomble

HarlequinCat said:


> Did anyone have the polio vaccine as a drop they put on your tongue? I was given a bit of fudge after that because it wasn't supposed to taste nice but I didn't notice. I was 10 at the time, they were giving me a tetnus jab because I'd hurt myself and did the polio one at the same time.


I didn't, but I have a vivid memory of the year 10's (14/15 year olds), standing in a cue outside the dining hall, going in to have it, they'd have the drop, then a spoonful of sugar, come out the dining room and join the line outside for the 6 needle one


----------



## rona

rona said:


> I think they went up because of mixing when the football was on, going down because of masks and distancing, but of course that's finished now, so will start to rise again this coming week


Am I psychic or a witch  

Up 7000 in two days


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Did you watch? He was excellent, as always.


I didn't, I'll have to track it down. I really like him.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> I had mumps, chicken pox and measles one by one after each other, drove my mum up the wall as I spent most of the time in bed moaning. German measles came the following year
> Remember having a polio test, but I had a natural immunity so didn't have the vaccine, same with smallpox and the BCG
> I also had whooping cough as a child, the only thing I missed was scarlet fever


That's a full set there! One of my sisters had scarlet fever.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

In case you missed it.

In the last three months there have been 171 pregnant women admitted to hospital with Covid - of these only three had had one jab and none have had both.
If you have friends or family who are pregnant, please please urge them to have the jab - and at the very least to review the guidance from the RCM and the RCOG.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58014779


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> In case you missed it.
> 
> In the last three months there have been 171 pregnant women admitted to hospital with Covid - of these only three had had one jab and none have had both.
> If you have friends or family who are pregnant, please please urge them to have the jab - and at the very least to review the guidance from the RCM and the RCOG.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58014779


That must be incredibly scary for the women. I hope they all recovered well and went in to have their babies.

It's a statistic worth knowing and should be publicised more.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I think sadly not @Siskin - there is looking to be a link developing between Covid infection and stillbirths and placental abruption but of course it takes a long time to collate enough data to be written up and published.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I think sadly not @Siskin - there is looking to be a link developing between Covid infection and stillbirths and placental abruption but of course it takes a long time to collate enough data to be written up and published.


That is so sad. 
I recall the original advice was for pregnant women not to have the vaccine until after the baby was born, but then that changed after further research and the advice was to have the jabs.
Have you noticed whether many pregnant women are refusing the jab still and taking the risk?
I wonder whether babies could end up with a form of long covid if their mother caught covid whilst pregnant


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The original advice changed very quickly to recommend that pregnant women with specific underlying medical conditions had the jab, then of course more recently it's become advice for all to have it. There are few women I come into contact with who are choosing to vaccinate whilst pregnant, the ones I"m meeting who have had it have only had it because they had it before they were/they knew they were pregnant. The issue I guess is that many pregnant women are in the age group that have a lower vaccination uptake per se. 

I'm so so sad about what we are seeing on an almost daily basis currently.


----------



## Siskin

I thought this report made for interesting reading
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/29/hospital-figures-covid-cases-misleading/


----------



## Calvine

1.6 Billion Disposable Masks Entered Our Oceans in 2020 (visualcapitalist.com)

As I said earlier . . . ^^^^^ I bought a pack of 10 cloth ones at the beginning, and still have five left unopened.


----------



## Happy Paws2

It's getting silly now, Why oh Why should we have to give incentives to the younger people to have the jab. Surely if if don't have the jab you can't go into night clubs and the like, later on in the year should be enough to get them to have it.

We bribe your dogs with treats as a reward not 18 to 30 year old people.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's getting silly now, Why oh Why should we have to give incentives to the younger people to have the jab. Surely if if don't have the jab you can't go into night clubs and the like, later on in the year should be enough to get them to have it.
> 
> We bribe your dogs with treats as a reward not 18 to 30 year old people.


I know it's ridiculous 88% of people have had the first jab that's an amazing uptake. Those that haven't I doubt will be bribed by a free takeaway. It's time to start sharing our vaccines with poorer countries.


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's getting silly now, Why oh Why should we have to give incentives to the younger people to have the jab. Surely if if don't have the jab you can't go into night clubs and the like, later on in the year should be enough to get them to have it.
> 
> We bribe your dogs with treats as a reward not 18 to 30 year old people.


Well apparently Boris thinks a slice of pizza would do it


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> I know it's ridiculous 88% of people have had the first jab that's an amazing uptake. *Those that haven't I doubt will be bribed by a free takeaway. *  It's time to start sharing our vaccines with poorer countries.


i
True but it's just selfish, so they think it's alright to go round spreading it to people that are still vulnerable. I've got this far doing everything I can to keep safe, I still only go out when I have too and I worry when I'm out if I people get to close to me have had the jab.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> i
> True but it's just selfish, so they think it's alright to go round spreading it to people that are still vulnerable. I've got this far doing everything I can to keep safe, I still only go out when I have too and I worry when I'm out if I people get to close to me have had the jab.


We were never going to get to 100% uptake of those 12% some will be be unable to get it some will simply refuse however if you've had both jabs you have good coverage. They are talking about boosters for the vulnerable in the autumn.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> We were never going to get to 100% uptake of those 12% some will be be unable to get it some will simply refuse however if you've had both jabs you have good coverage. They are talking about boosters for the vulnerable in the autumn.


I've already booked to have my 3rd (booster) jab for the 9th August. It's available to anyone who was vaccinated 4 months or more ago.

It will be a different vaccine to the two previous jabs.


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I've already booked to have my 3rd (booster) jab for the 9th August. It's available to anyone who was vaccinated 4 months or more ago.
> 
> It will be a different vaccine to the two previous jabs.


I think that's what they are recommending here a different jab.


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> I think that's what they are recommending here a different jab.


Apparently studies have shown a different 3 rd vaccine is more effective.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636356

*Mixing Covid jabs has good immune response, study finds*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> We were never going to get to 100% uptake of those 12% some will be be unable to get it some will simply refuse however if you've had both jabs you have good coverage. *They are talking about boosters for the vulnerable in the autumn*.


We will be having ours when they offer them..

Just because your vacated doesn't mean you still can't get it, that's what worries me about people who won't have it and passing it around without a care.

I know with all my health problems if I caught it I'll be lucky to survive.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> We will be having ours when they offer them..
> 
> Just because your vacated doesn't mean you still can't get it, that's what worries me about people who won't have it and passing it around without a care.
> 
> I know with all my health problems if I caught it I'll be lucky to survive.


I feel as though I'm coming across really badly (terrible grammar as well) on this thread as an anti vaxer. I'm not. I don't mean to diminish your fear @Happy Paws2 i really don't.

I just feel 88% is an amazing triumph the majority of the country will have antibodies.

Some years I have the flu jab some years I don't I've never been called selfish for not having it when spreading flu can be just as deadly.

People have to weigh up risk and essentially the vaccine to a young person can be more risky than catching Covid. Let's face it we don't know the long term effects. Probably nothing being a vaccine but we don't know. So a lot of refusal is born out of fear.

This is why coercion and blackmail doesn't work. I spoke to my GP before my second vaccine and she was amazing but how many GPs have the time to speak to people who are worried.

My only concern is how the media are turning us against each other calling those who haven't had it selfish and stupid. I don't see how this encourages it, it just fuels the anti vax agenda.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> I* feel as though I'm coming across really badly (terrible grammar as well) on this thread as an anti vaxer. * I'm not. I don't mean to diminish your fear @Happy Paws2 i really don't.
> 
> I just feel 88% is an amazing triumph the majority of the country will have antibodies.
> 
> Some years I have the flu jab some years I don't I've never been called selfish for not having it when spreading flu can be just as deadly.
> 
> People have to weigh up risk and essentially the vaccine to a young person can be more risky than catching Covid. Let's face it we don't know the long term effects. Probably nothing being a vaccine but we don't know. So a lot of refusal is born out of fear.
> 
> This is why coercion and blackmail doesn't work. I spoke to my GP before my second vaccine and she was amazing but how many GPs have the time to speak to people who are worried.
> 
> My only concern is how the media are turning us against each other calling those who haven't had it selfish and stupid. I don't see how this encourages it, it just fuels the anti vax agenda.


I never thought you were, like you I sometimes come across badly, things don't come across the way I mean.

I think at the moment I'm just getting paranoid about the whole thing.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I never thought you were, like you I sometimes come across badly, things don't come across the way I mean.
> 
> I think at the moment I'm just getting paranoid about the whole thing.


I think this is the problem we've all been so terrorised the last 18 months it's hard to think straight. Honestly I was sat googling my chance of dying from Covid, chance of dying from the vax for hours reading so much data my eyes went square. The boxer boys thought I'd gone mad they are brave with their jabs.


----------



## Siskin

Some friends had their son and his family move in as they were relocating to another country and had moved out of their own house. That evening the young granddaughter began to feel poorly and was tested for covid and found to be positive. Panic.
Within days our friends both tested positive and began to feel ill. He ended up being taken into hospital as he developed a nasty rash. Turned out to be a viral rash from covid and not serious and sent home a few hours later. Son and family have moved into a rental now as their departure is delayed.
All the adults were vaccinated, the children hadn’t. Thankfully no one was very ill and all recovered without issues.

In this case the vaccination did what it was meant to do, prevent serious infection. Children are less likely to be seriously infected, but it does leave me wondering if jabs should be offered to younger children.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> Some friends had their son and his family move in as they were relocating to another country and had moved out of their own house. That evening the young granddaughter began to feel poorly and was tested for covid and found to be positive. Panic.
> Within days our friends both tested positive and began to feel ill. He ended up being taken into hospital as he developed a nasty rash. Turned out to be a viral rash from covid and not serious and sent home a few hours later. Son and family have moved into a rental now as their departure is delayed.
> All the adults were vaccinated, the children hadn't. Thankfully no one was very ill and all recovered without issues.
> 
> In this case the vaccination did what it was meant to do, prevent serious infection. Children are less likely to be seriously infected, but it does leave me wondering if jabs should be offered to younger children.


I work with vulnerable children and they are starting to offer it to those with health issues.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> I think this is the problem we've all been so terrorised the last 18 months it's hard to think straight. Honestly I was sat googling my chance of dying from Covid, chance of dying from the vax for hours reading so much data my eyes went square. The boxer boys thought I'd gone mad they are brave with their jabs.


I've never done that but I know how you feel, instead of planning for the future, I'm thinking if I'm still here.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've never done that but I know how you feel, instead of planning for the future, I'm thinking if I'm still here.


I won't like but sending hugs.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Why should we have to give incentives to the younger people to have the jab.


Not just pizzas, apparently, but coffee, cinema tickets, Uber, Bolt and Deliveroo in on the act.. But the best yet I have read (from more than one source) is that Biden is trying to get states to offer people a $100 incentive to get vaccinated (payable after it's done, presumably).


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Not just pizzas, apparently, but coffee, cinema tickets, Uber, Bolt and Deliveroo in on the act.. But the best yet I have read (from more than one source) is that Biden is trying to get states to offer people a $100 incentive to get vaccinated (payable after it's done, presumably).


Apparently it's been quite successful in certain states. (can't remember exactly which ones)

https://www.nga.org/center/publications/covid-19-vaccine-incentives/

*COVID-19 Vaccine Incentives*


----------



## Gemmaa

Damn, I should have held out for pizza, suddenly my sticker doesn't seem so great! :Shifty


----------



## Happy Paws2

Johnny 19282 said:


> Hello really In need of some help I have a 7 mouth old Cavapoo that hasn't eat for 3 days dunno what to do vets are so expensive also my poodle witch has 6 puppies on it has stop eating today really worried toilet is very watery


Maybe you should repost this on Dog Chat in the health section.

But I would say, speak to your Vet.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> Apparently it's been quite successful in certain states.


I've little doubt that the pizza will be too.


----------



## Beth78

I've been building myself up all week in preparation for my trauma therapy this afternoon and have just recieved an email from my therapist saying they've been "pinged" so my appointment is cancelled for 2 weeks.
So disappointed, my hope was it would be complete by October as I have booked a weeks holiday in Wales. But my next appointment is 15th August, so a 2 week delay.
So gutted


----------



## Boxer123

Beth78 said:


> I've been building myself up all week in preparation for my trauma therapy this afternoon and have just recieved an email from my therapist saying they've been "pinged" so my appointment is cancelled for 2 weeks.
> So disappointed, my hope was it would be complete by October as I have booked a weeks holiday in Wales. But my next appointment is 15th August, so a 2 week delay.
> So gutted


So disappointing sorry to hear this.


----------



## Calvine

Gemmaa said:


> suddenly my sticker doesn't seem so great! :Shifty


 :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

Beth78 said:


> I've been building myself up all week in preparation for my trauma therapy this afternoon and have just recieved an email from my therapist saying they've been "pinged" so my appointment is cancelled for 2 weeks.
> So disappointed, my hope was it would be complete by October as I have booked a weeks holiday in Wales. But my next appointment is 15th August, so a 2 week delay.
> So gutted


Im sorry to hear that.


----------



## kimthecat

and finally I have finished my two infusions for RA at the third attempt. 
Early Last year , I cancelled because of Covid. I was booked in for January this year but I had a foot infection and despite antibiotics , they wouldnt do it. 
Then I had to delay because I wanted the Covid innoculations.
I was booked for early July and had the first one but the second one ( two weeks later ) I had to cancelled as I woke up with a migraine and was sick everywhere , I expect it was due to the heat. I had the second one yesterday and it went well. I hope to be able to come off steroids soon.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> and finally I have finished my two infusions for RA at the third attempt.
> Early Last year , I cancelled because of Covid. I was booked in for January this year but I had a foot infection and despite antibiotics , they wouldnt do it.
> Then I had to delay because I wanted the Covid innoculations.
> I was booked for early July and had the first one but the second one ( two weeks later ) I had to cancelled as I woke up with a migraine and was sick everywhere , I expect it was due to the heat. I had the second one yesterday and it went well. I hope to be able to come off steroids soon.


Great news. Will this make you feel loads better?


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> Great news. Will this make you feel loads better?


I hope so . Ive had it before and there is definitely and improvement after.


----------



## Cully

*More* incentives to coerce the younger population to get their jabs. It just means those who were already considering getting them will now delay to see what tasty carrots they may be offered. Tsk!


----------



## Magyarmum

I've just come back from the General Hospital after having my 3rd (booster) jab. 

The first two were the Sinopharm vaccine. this time I was given Pfizer.


----------



## Arny

Magyarmum said:


> The first two were the Sinopharm vaccine. this time I was given Pfizer.


That's what they're thinking of doing in China too (where my brother lives).


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> I've just come back from the General Hospital after having my 3rd (booster) jab.
> 
> The first two were the Sinopharm vaccine. this time I was given Pfizer.


Does the booster cover other variants? I assume boosters here will be offered in the Autumn.


----------



## kimthecat

Just seen on twitter something about anti vaxers storming the BBC and ITV studios in protest . Apparently' they stormed the ITV studio where they were filming Loose Women by mistake as it used to belong to the BBC


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Just seen on twitter something about anti vaxers storming the BBC and ITV studios in protest . Apparently' they stormed the ITV studio where they were filming Loose Women by mistake as it used to belong to the BBC


The stupidity of the foolish


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I am still working on trying to be less stressed about the whole Covid relaxation thing. It's so ingrained in me from work that I think I'm more concerned because of that. We popped to the pub for a quick drink on Saturday early evening (5pm) as husband said he thought it would be good practice for me. There were four of us and I'm afraid to say that when we got there I just couldn't sit inside. It made me feel all anxious being in there, so we went and sat outside in the undercover garden area...I am meant to be going to a running club awards do on Friday night but not sure I can. It's a big venue, so it will not be full at all but *aaaggghhhhh*. What can I do I wonder? I'm getting cross with myself at being so pathetic, I have to be able to get out in a more normal way and I have to be less frightened of passing Covid on to someone (I'm not fearful for myself). What to do, eh? What to do.


----------



## Siskin

Our WI is having its first meeting at the village hall since February 2020 on Wednesday. The daughter of one of the committee members is a microbiologist and has given her mum lots of advice as to how we should run the meeting. So in the big roomy village hall all the doors and windows will be open, tables will be put out and a small number of chairs set around them with hand sanitiser on each table. Masks to be worn when moving about and if you wish to once sat, all the committee members will have a covid test prior to the meeting and everyone that comes to be double jabbed.
Hopefully it’s enough to keep us all safe. I don’t expect a lot of members will go as some are quite elderly and frail. It will be nice to see everyone again and feel a little more back to normal


----------



## Blackadder

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm getting cross with myself at being so pathetic, I have to be able to get out in a more normal way and I have to be less frightened of passing Covid on to someone (I'm not fearful for myself). What to do, eh? What to do.


I don't think it's pathetic  The Gov purposely set out to scare people (confirmed in released SAGE minutes) into compliance & now they are reaping the, unintended, reward! They were so successful that many people are now too wary to return to work places... you're not on your own by a long way.

I read somewhere today that it's estimated around 94% of the population now has antibodies, of course that doesn't stop you catching or passing it on but the chance of being seriously ill is way diminished... & with the vast majority of the adults vaccinated I reckon we're as about as protected as we can be.

Edit: Not the link I read but good enough https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...-have-virus-antibodies-ons-data-says-12350776


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Well as I work in the hospital I’ve not had any choice except go to work - and strangely that doesn’t worry me too much as I feel safe there. 

I just need to get on with it I reckon. Friday night will be a good test!


----------



## Blackadder

Mrs Funkin said:


> Well as I work in the hospital I've not had any choice except go to work - and strangely that doesn't worry me too much as I feel safe there.
> 
> I just need to get on with it I reckon. Friday night will be a good test!


If you work in a hospital then I wouldn't worry about Friday night, if you want to catch Covid the best place is a hospital...it's full of ill people


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Ah yes but I’m in full PPE all day…not sure I can rock mask, apron, gloves and visor with my posh frock


----------



## Blackadder

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ah yes but I'm in full PPE all day…not sure I can rock mask, apron, gloves and visor with my posh frock


 I'm sure you can make it work! See it as a challenge, you might set a fashion trend!


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ah yes but I'm in full PPE all day…not sure I can rock mask, apron, gloves and visor with my posh frock


I don't know, you could pretend its fancy dress and pretend you are some sort of si-fi bride or something 

I'm still very frightened about this whole thing so I understand how you feel, so please don't think I'm mocking you or anything.


----------



## Magyarmum

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am still working on trying to be less stressed about the whole Covid relaxation thing. It's so ingrained in me from work that I think I'm more concerned because of that. We popped to the pub for a quick drink on Saturday early evening (5pm) as husband said he thought it would be good practice for me. There were four of us and I'm afraid to say that when we got there I just couldn't sit inside. It made me feel all anxious being in there, so we went and sat outside in the undercover garden area...I am meant to be going to a running club awards do on Friday night but not sure I can. It's a big venue, so it will not be full at all but *aaaggghhhhh*. What can I do I wonder? I'm getting cross with myself at being so pathetic, I have to be able to get out in a more normal way and I have to be less frightened of passing Covid on to someone (I'm not fearful for myself). What to do, eh? What to do.


I can sympathise with you because I feel much the same. Most of our restrictions here in Hungary have been lifted and you rarely see anyone wearing a mask. I'm fine with that if I'm outside or even inside providing there aren't many people and I can keep a 2 metre distance. Yesterday though, on my way home I popped into Penny Market, which was fine until I got to the bread section and found myself surrounded by people. Fortunately I'd done all my shopping, because after that I couldn't wait to get out of the shop into the fresh air.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am still working on trying to be less stressed about the whole Covid relaxation thing. It's so ingrained in me from work that I think I'm more concerned because of that. We popped to the pub for a quick drink on Saturday early evening (5pm) as husband said he thought it would be good practice for me. There were four of us and I'm afraid to say that when we got there I just couldn't sit inside. It made me feel all anxious being in there, so we went and sat outside in the undercover garden area...I am meant to be going to a running club awards do on Friday night but not sure I can. It's a big venue, so it will not be full at all but *aaaggghhhhh*. What can I do I wonder? I'm getting cross with myself at being so pathetic, I have to be able to get out in a more normal way and I have to be less frightened of passing Covid on to someone (I'm not fearful for myself). What to do, eh? What to do.


Honestly, there's no rush … baby steps.

I'm relaxed about popping into shops (wearing a mask etc.) but still prefer to sit outside if eating or drinking for a while.

Just do what you feel comfortable with and you should gradually get less concerned.

I'm surprised actually, that my OH (who was/is? vulnerable after his cancer/chemo) is much happier than me to be inside with people …. though it does involve football and beer! 

I've just bought 2 golf umbrellas so sitting outside in the rain, if necessary, is still an option


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Honestly, there's no rush … baby steps.
> 
> I'm relaxed about popping into shops (wearing a mask etc.) but still prefer to sit outside if eating or drinking for a while.
> 
> Just do what you feel comfortable with and you should gradually get less concerned.
> 
> I'm surprised actually, that my OH (who was/is? vulnerable after his cancer/chemo) is much happier than me to be inside with people …. though it does involve football and beer!
> 
> I've just bought 2 golf umbrellas so sitting outside in the rain, if necessary, is still an option


I prefer to be outside to be honest, so far our few visits to meet up with friends at a pub have been outside. I'm ok with being inside with our friends from up the road as they are as careful as us over going anywhere.
We have a meet up of our book club group this afternoon and will be going to someone's house, I suspect it will be held outside as the weather is nice today. The WI meeting on Wednesday will be the first time I've been with a group of people let alone indoors with them, so that will be a biggy. 
The villages entertainment group are lining up a whole load of interesting events at the village hall over the next six months from live bands to live streaming from the National Theatre, it all looks so good. Just hope covid dies down enough for us to have the confidence to go.


----------



## £54etgfb6

I work in a pharmacy and the number of people coming in to request lateral flow tests for themselves and sometimes whole family is really encouraging  We have to ask if the person is symptomatic and that usually prompts an explanation as to why they are requesting them- the explanation is often just “I want to be safe”!! It’s definitely a small subset of the population but it might be encouraging to some people on this thread that there are people that still go out of their way to take precautions.  People come in wearing disposable gloves and rigorously maintain their 2 metre distance. It’s very nice to see.


----------



## Siskin

bmr10 said:


> I work in a pharmacy and the number of people coming in to request lateral flow tests for themselves and sometimes whole family is really encouraging  We have to ask if the person is symptomatic and that usually prompts an explanation as to why they are requesting them- the explanation is often just "I want to be safe"!! It's definitely a small subset of the population but it might be encouraging to some people on this thread that there are people that still go out of their way to take precautions.  People come in wearing disposable gloves and rigorously maintain their 2 metre distance. It's very nice to see.


I've not been in to any shops since the relaxation of rules, but someone who has said that most people are wearing masks still


----------



## £54etgfb6

Siskin said:


> I've not been in to any shops since the relaxation of rules, but someone who has said that most people are wearing masks still


Obviously the place I work in doesn't represent the entire country and Scotland's restrictions have been eased a lot slower than England's but from my experience I'd say about 8/10 people wear masks. Those that don't usually have a sunflower lanyard.

On public transport it seems to be a completely different story!! Majority of people on my daily commute don't wear masks. Maybe entering a pharmacy, a place of healthcare, gives off the impression that you should be stricter with hygiene and regulations?? Not sure.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH had a hospital appointment yesterday, he said it was like a ghost town. He went on the train and back by the bus everyone wearing masks.


----------



## O2.0

@kimthecat do you ever look back at the first few pages of this thread? 
It's crazy how this all progressed.... !


----------



## teddylion

You're right, page one is trippy...someone saying they've had ONE case in the USA!


----------



## MilleD

I'm off to the Rock the Lake festival on Friday as we won a Gold table there in a competition. Don't feel like we can turn it down 

It's all outside, table service and toilets just for the Gold table customers so I'm hoping it should be pretty safe.

We are all taking lateral flow tests before we go, to keep others safe too.

What a world we are living in....

The way they are pitching it makes me hopeful that it will be safe.


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> @kimthecat do you ever look back at the first few pages of this thread?
> It's crazy how this all progressed.... !


I have sometimes. At the time , I was surprised that no one else had started a thread about it . I've seen crazy things in my life but I never thought I'd see something like this .


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I've not been in to any shops since the relaxation of rules, but someone who has said that most people are wearing masks still


Ive been in Pets at home and wilko and most people are wearing masks. I've been on the train where you are supposed to wear them and a few people haven't.


----------



## simplysardonic

I've been persuaded to go camping with friends this weekend, it's only 20mins from home but pretty much the closest thing to a 'holiday' I've been on in 35 years:Nailbiting

It's a 12 acre site so it should be easy enough to avoid people, but my anxiety is still pretty high even so.


----------



## lorilu

We're back to masks in the workplace, effective this morning, and anyone else who enters the building too. We'll remain open to the public (we re-opened in June after a year of doing city business in the parking lot) but the public must be masked to come in. Our county has been newly labeled high risk, most likely due to the summer tourism, and the soon to come influx of 8,000 college students.

Masks are still optional in most places "if you've been vaccinated" but that relies on the honor system. I've gone back to wearing one anyway, in stores, even after having been fully vaccinated in April. We get families from all over all summer.


----------



## willa

Second Pfizer dose on Tuesday. Hope I don’t feel too bad afterwards, my sister was in bed for 4 days !


----------



## Magyarmum

willa said:


> Second Pfizer dose on Tuesday. Hope I don't feel too bad afterwards, my sister was in bed for 4 days !


I had the Pfizer vaccine last Monday for my 3rd (booster) jab. Apart from my arm feeling a little bruised for a couple of days afterward, I suffered no other ill effects.


----------



## willa

Magyarmum said:


> I had the Pfizer vaccine last Monday for my 3rd (booster) jab. Apart from my arm feeling a little bruised for a couple of days afterward, I suffered no other ill effects.


Very impressed you are already being given a booster !!


----------



## Magyarmum

willa said:


> Very impressed you are already being given a booster !!


Yup! Anyone who received the first two vaccinations 4 months or more ago can apply to have the booster jab. If I remember rightly around 60% of people in care homes, have received their third jab.


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> Yup! Anyone who received the first two vaccinations 4 months or more ago can apply to have the booster jab. If I remember rightly around 60% of people in care homes, have received their third jab.


Is there any science behind this?


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Is there any science behind this?


I opted to have the 3 rd jab partly due to my age, and partly because the Sinopharm vaccine is said not to offer as much protection as other vaccines.. If I hadn't felt it would be beneficial to me then I wouldn't have bothered.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations...navirus-and-your-health/covid-booster-vaccine

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...the-debate-over-covid-booster-shots-quicktake

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-from-september


----------



## HarlequinCat

willa said:


> Second Pfizer dose on Tuesday. Hope I don't feel too bad afterwards, my sister was in bed for 4 days !


Hope it goes well. 
My first one I had a really sore arm for a few days but felt fine otherwise. Second one did have more of an affect but I just felt a bit wiped out for a day or 2, like when u have a bad cold without the runny nose or stuffy head. Paracetamol helped a lot.

My sister didn't have any side effect. Nor did anyone else who had pfizer that I know, so odds are you will be fine


----------



## willa

Did anyone not receive a NHS text or email reminder for their vaccination ?

My cousin almost forgot about hers, as she had no reminder . She booked it 12 weeks ago, that’s a long time to remember !!

I haven’t had any reminders yet


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Did anyone not receive a NHS text or email reminder for their vaccination ?
> 
> My cousin almost forgot about hers, as she had no reminder . She booked it 12 weeks ago, that's a long time to remember !!
> 
> I haven't had any reminders yet


I put a large note on the fridge so I knew when mine was.


----------



## teddylion

I went to the Minor Injuries the other week for a tetanus jab. No mask on the nurse; patient in front had hers round her chin. No window open in the toilet and no window open in the nurse's room (this is basic stuff). 

Five days later I became sick and tested positive for Covid yesterday. I can only conclude I caught it from aerosols, otherwise I'm stumped as to how I got it.

EDIT: No mask on the receptionist, I meant. Nurse was wearing one but wasn't vaccinated which I found surprising.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> We're back to masks in the workplace, effective this morning, and anyone else who enters the building too. We'll remain open to the public (we re-opened in June after a year of doing city business in the parking lot) but the public must be masked to come in. Our county has been newly labeled high risk, most likely due to the summer tourism, and the soon to come influx of 8,000 college students.
> 
> Masks are still optional in most places "if you've been vaccinated" but that relies on the honor system. I've gone back to wearing one anyway, in stores, even after having been fully vaccinated in April. We get families from all over all summer.


Ugh, had my first confrontation with a customer who didn't want to follow the rules about wearing a mask in our building. Our instructions are to remind the "offender" of the city policy on mask in city owned buildings, and if the transaction is swift, simply take care of them and send them on their way.

I did this: lightly reminded him of the policy, took his water bill payment, and said thank you, expecting him to leave, it all took less than a minute, but after I handed him his receipt and thanked him in my normal cheerful "customer service" voice, he felt the need to become belligerent about his "right" not to wear a mask and the city has no right to make such a policy, he's a tax payer and pays massive taxes and on and on.

I said, still lightly, well it doesn't matter now, we're done. If you have other business here I will be happy to provide you with a mask, or you can just leave. He got all puffed up and said "oh so you're threatening me now? You're going to throw me out of city hall?"

At that point I said "I'm done with this I'll get my supervisor" and left my office. My boss wasn't available so I got the second in command but by the time he got to my window the guy had left. I bet he felt all proud of himself for brow beating the useless city employee who is paid at the expense of his massive tax dollars. lol.


----------



## lorilu

teddylion said:


> I went to the Minor Injuries the other week for a tetanus jab. No mask on the nurse; patient in front had hers round her chin. No window open in the toilet and no window open in the nurse's room (this is basic stuff).
> 
> Five days later I became sick and tested positive for Covid yesterday. I can only conclude I caught it from aerosols, otherwise I'm stumped as to how I got it.
> 
> EDIT: No mask on the receptionist, I meant. Nurse was wearing one but wasn't vaccinated which I found surprising.


How awful. All medical offices and personnel have to wear masks, and patients as well, where I live. They'll kick you right out. And I've heard people doing the under the chin thing be reminded the mouth and nose must be covered.


----------



## Siskin

teddylion said:


> I went to the Minor Injuries the other week for a tetanus jab. No mask on the nurse; patient in front had hers round her chin. No window open in the toilet and no window open in the nurse's room (this is basic stuff).
> 
> Five days later I became sick and tested positive for Covid yesterday. I can only conclude I caught it from aerosols, otherwise I'm stumped as to how I got it.
> 
> EDIT: No mask on the receptionist, I meant. Nurse was wearing one but wasn't vaccinated which I found surprising.


That's depressing, you would have thought there would have been more rules about mask wearing especially with staff.

I hope you don't feel too poorly and recover quickly.

I had an appointment at my hospital on Friday in order to have an X-ray and checkup on my leg and how it's healing. Everyone I saw was wearing a mask although one fella had his round his chin. 
Deeply frustrating for me is that I still haven't had the results back from the biopsy taken of my femur during the operation which was eight weeks ago almost. Apparently they have the biopsy and it has been prepared but for some reason it wasn't checked (lost, but not lost if you see what I mean). Someone was supposed to look at it ASAP and report to my consultant who was going to phone me. Not had a call yet. As this biopsy was taken in case the cancer had returned I'm feeling somewhat peeved. I had spent the last few weeks assuming that no news was good news only to find out no one had checked the thing.


----------



## willa

For my first dose I queued for over an hour,to get into the Vaccination Tent, at St Thomas Hospital in Westminster.
Hope it won’t take that long this time !

I’m not bashing the NHS as I’m more than happy to wait for however long ! Just was a long time standing


----------



## teddylion

Thanks Siskin. I'm not vaccinated but seem to be on the mend at last. 

Hope you get some good news soon regarding your biopsy, waiting to hear about it must be so stressful.


----------



## willa

Second Pfizer dose done. This time no queuing, in & out in 20mins


----------



## robertwillsom

i got vaccinated but still Covid sucks ughh


----------



## Magyarmum

robertwillsom said:


> i got vaccinated but still Covid sucks ughh


Your new infections, hospitalisations and deaths in the US are going up aren't they?

I'm lucky I live in a country where they've gone down to the point that life for the most part is back to normal. Yesterday we only had 53 new infections and 1 death.


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> Your new infections, hospitalisations and deaths in the US are going up aren't they?
> 
> I'm lucky I live in a country where they've gone down to the point that life for the most part is back to normal. Yesterday we only had 53 new infections and 1 death.


It seems it's largely in States that are reluctant to vaccinate. The Delta variant is hitting hard


----------



## willa

5 hours since vaccination & I have cracking headache & starting to ache & feel shattered.


----------



## Beth78

willa said:


> 5 hours since vaccination & I have cracking headache & starting to ache & feel shattered.


Oh no! That's how I felt after my 1st jab, 2nd was fine. I hope you are feeling better soon.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> 5 hours since vaccination & *I have cracking headache & starting to ache & feel shattered*.


It doesn't last long, take a couple of paracetamol and a early night and you should start to feel better.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Yep paracetamol will help a lot @willa . I was the same, but it doesn't last long


----------



## willa

Had 13 hours sleep ! Woke thismorning with awful nausea, aching all over & a burning arm
But Atleast headaches have gone !

Day on sofa for me today


----------



## MollySmith

Alarming to see lack of mask wearing by the government in the House of Commons today.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> Alarming to see lack of mask wearing by the government in the House of Commons today.


They're all immune, didn't you know?


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Our health centre is currently very short staffed due to a spike in positive household contacts.
Although they are double jabbed NHS guidelines state to still follow procedures to limit catching, spreading and contact with people at higher risk. 
Presumably until they get negative PCR tests. I suppose the disruption will be shorter than before - as long as there is sufficient tests with quick results.

Edit to add
For all the stringent measures in place at the Board-masters festival down here a lot have tested positive on their return. Festival goers are being encouraged to test.


----------



## rona

Looks like the fourth wave has just taken off!


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Looks like the fourth wave has just taken off!


We've been warned to expect a fourth wave in September. Yesterday's new infections doubled from the day before.


----------



## ForestWomble

Numbers have been high here for a while


----------



## Boxer123

I’ve lost track of what wave we are actually on.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just have no idea how there are still so many new cases each day (well, of course I do really but YKWIM). So many deaths and yet STILL people won't vaccinate. They still won't wear a mask. They still think they are above the rules. I have a constant battle at work with people. If I have to ask one more person to wear their mask/put it on properly I might scream. I am so sick and tired of people saying to me, "Oh but I can't breathe, it's too hot"...yes you can. I breathe in mine for 11 hours a day, plus a visor, plus gloves and apron on top of my delightful polyester uniform. 

I've mentioned before about how anxious I feel about things and going out - I went out on Friday night (sat at a big round table, high ceilings in the venue), turned away a couple of people who asked if we are hugging hello (the response was no). Went out last night - two pubs we sat in the garden, one bar there was us plus one other table of people and the restaurant we were in a little area on our own which was good. So I'm trying because I know I need to - but I'm doing it in a way that I feel is okay? Maybe it's not. maybe everyone is being sensible and it's spreading anyway but I suspect maybe not. 

Roll on my booster I say!


----------



## £54etgfb6

We have a lot of people come into the pharmacy I work in asking for advice/lateral flow tests when they are SYMPTOMATIC!!!! hello??? Have you somehow avoided the news for the past 1.5 years???? why are you in public when you know you have symptoms? I am in the vulnerable category and so having someone in front of me with symptoms of covid makes me very very anxious. when people come in for advice about a cough and i explain that the current NHS advice is to book a PCR test if you have a new cough and they say they don’t need to/they have both vaccines/it’s definitely not covid/they just want something for the cough/etc it is SO saddening. this attitude puts people at risk. please care more about not only your own health but the health of others. 
the worst is when the doctor has advised that the patient books a PCR test but the patient misinterprets it and thinks they mean an LFT- in this case it’s a genuine mistake but I wish the patients were emailed so that it explicitly states in writing that it is a PCR test they need and that they must book it through the NHS (in store pharmacy PCR tests are not for symptomatic people). 

I hope this does not come across as judgemental- I don’t resent any of these individuals at all and it is wholly down to how the whole pandemic has been handled by official organisations and miseducation. I just want to not feel scared.


----------



## MollySmith

bmr10 said:


> We have a lot of people come into the pharmacy I work in asking for advice/lateral flow tests when they are SYMPTOMATIC!!!! hello??? Have you somehow avoided the news for the past 1.5 years???? why are you in public when you know you have symptoms? I am in the vulnerable category and so having someone in front of me with symptoms of covid makes me very very anxious. when people come in for advice about a cough and i explain that the current NHS advice is to book a PCR test if you have a new cough and they say they don't need to/they have both vaccines/it's definitely not covid/they just want something for the cough/etc it is SO saddening. this attitude puts people at risk. please care more about not only your own health but the health of others.
> the worst is when the doctor has advised that the patient books a PCR test but the patient misinterprets it and thinks they mean an LFT- in this case it's a genuine mistake but I wish the patients were emailed so that it explicitly states in writing that it is a PCR test they need and that they must book it through the NHS (in store pharmacy PCR tests are not for symptomatic people).
> 
> I hope this does not come across as judgemental- I don't resent any of these individuals at all and it is wholly down to how the whole pandemic has been handled by official organisations and miseducation. I just want to not feel scared.


I have so much sympathy for you. It's not at all judgmental but really useful and I'll share this (anon of course) in my social networks as you're spot on. I agree it's been poorly handled everywhere. I was appalled to see the government not wearing masks and that we're back to March rates and no mention of a lockdown or anything like it. It's madness.

Slight digression. The crisis should have been a cross party approach lead by science not some twonk who can barely brush his hair never mind be arsed to read a briefing (I have it on good authority from an acquaintance who worked in Number 10 that Boris doesn't read them, he asks for the highlights. Michael Gove actually does which makes me feel slightly more generous to him).


----------



## Mrs Funkin

That sounds awful @bmr10 - you are a better person than I am saying you don't resent individuals. I do now. It's been a LONG time the advice has been out and the majority of people I come into contact with really have no excuse - they don't have a learning disability, most are literate, most speak English to a reasonable level. We still are having people turn up for appointments and scans who then tell us they don't feel very well but didn't want to miss their scan. They and their partners are also reluctant to do an LFT before they come to the hospital for an appointment - the whole government "encouraging people to do twice weekly LFTs" seems to have passed many people by and I do think that should have been more publicised.

I know, I sound completely intolerant, I'm just sick and tired of it all. Honestly I am.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Looks like the fourth wave has just taken off!


Oh What !  I wonder when we will get our boosters.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

@kimthecat apparently the Health Sec said earlier, "We are going to have a booster scheme. It will start some time in September. I couldn't tell you exactly when because before we start it... we need to get the final advice from our group of experts, our independent scientific and medical advisers, the JCVI, and so we're waiting for their final opinion."

36,000+ new cases today and another 100+ deaths  The variants of concern list is growing too


----------



## kimthecat

@Mrs Funkin Thanks. I was sure whether I wanted a booster but will definitely get one now.


----------



## mrs phas

I booked my flu jab last week, whilst having my hand redressed, and asked about booster, as both Matt and I are vulnerable.
At the time nothing had been announced, so, obviously the answer was...
"We know nozing"
Whilst having my stitches out today (omg! Blanket stitch removal stings like a female dog) the same nurse let me know that we were likely to have our booster at the same time as our flu jabs 
We, for two, will not be turning it down


----------



## £54etgfb6

MollySmith said:


> I have so much sympathy for you. It's not at all judgmental but really useful and I'll share this (anon of course) in my social networks as you're spot on. I agree it's been poorly handled everywhere. I was appalled to see the government not wearing masks and that we're back to March rates and no mention of a lockdown or anything like it. It's madness.
> 
> Slight digression. The crisis should have been a cross party approach lead by science not some twonk who can barely brush his hair never mind be arsed to read a briefing (I have it on good authority from an acquaintance who worked in Number 10 that Boris doesn't read them, he asks for the highlights. Michael Gove actually does which makes me feel slightly more generous to him).


The government is pushing for things to "return to normal" (as if this will be possible anytime soon) to save the economy, but they are not taking steps to limit the pandemic, which would mean we *could* return to normal in the future and improve the economy. The way the pandemic is being handled is very drawn out to me. Obviously, I don't work in politics so I'm fairly ignorant but that's my observation. We seem to be very "you can do this now, but not that" and a few months later "you can't do this, but now you can do that" back and forth over and over again in such tiny bursts that it doesn't seem to have a real lasting effect. I feel we will go through this tirade for a long time *or* the government will give up and go for the herd immunity they advocated for at the start (which I COMPLETELY disagree with and it horrifies me to think someone could agree with it).

And the education from the government... the whole "we can place individuals less than 2 metres away from each other as long as they are facing the same direction (such as on a bus or in a football stadium)" and then multiple studies were published showing that yes, in fact, you can be infected by someone in front of you on a bus breathing. It is airborne and air circulates. A lot of people depend on TV and newspapers for information especially scientific information due to scientific articles not being the most understandable to those not in that field. Because of this, it is so disappointing that the advice given by officials is not consistent (and often not consistent with their own behaviour) as it leads to confusion, panic, or apathy. People don't know who/what to believe and it is awful. There are some people who will come across scientific evidence/tweets by doctors/videos by scientists/etc which will give them really good education but not everyone has access to that and so it's so sad that the government have failed in being role models when it comes to covid.

I am glad my post did not come across as judgemental. I give people advice and if they take it on board that is up to them. It just makes me very anxious as in a pharmacy a lot of people that come to us are very very unwell or are there on behalf of someone who is very very unwell and I do not want anyone to fall ill because someone is in the store symptomatic for covid.


----------



## willa

Unless I’m imagining it I saw an article in some paper saying Boosters were not going to be happening any time soon 

Everything is so depressing. Cases & deaths going up, The nights are getting longer, and I’m finding myself terrified at the prospect of finding another job, having been out of a job since Christmas due to Covid.

I’ve now been double vaccinated, but that isn’t making me feel less depressed and worried about it all


----------



## Beth78

Me and my family have been taking part in a scheme for Government of National Statistics.
A person comes to the door, hands you a test kit and ask you afew questions. Doesn't take long.

The best bit is getting a love to shop voucher every time they come. I've been using mine for M&S mostly for food.


----------



## willa

Day 3 after Pfizer and I’m still not right. Still getting dull headaches, fatigue & now have stomach cramps & icky tummy. Slept a lot of the day again 

Can’t tell if I’ve caught some bug, or if I’m just unlucky with the side effects


----------



## Lurcherlad

So many more people not wearing masks indoors


----------



## StormyThai

I'm disappointed with our local Tesco's...Before you go into the shop you still have the sanitizer station and big signs asking people to wear masks inside, yet only two staff members were wearing one and both were on the checkouts behind screens all staff on the shop floor that were picking for delivery slots and stacking shelves were maskless.

You can't expect people that don't want to wear a mask to wear one if none of your staff follow the rules.

Yeah, yeah...I know it's personal choice and all that but I did not feel safe in the shop this morning...so much so that I ended up walking out


----------



## HarlequinCat

willa said:


> Day 3 after Pfizer and I'm still not right. Still getting dull headaches, fatigue & now have stomach cramps & icky tummy. Slept a lot of the day again
> 
> Can't tell if I've caught some bug, or if I'm just unlucky with the side effects


That's how I was with it. I had a throbbing head a few days, and my muscles felt so tired everything was an effort, I was sleepy a lot too. It'll gradually ease though.

We seem the unlucky few who suffered 2nd time around!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'd have walked out too @StormyThai - sorry you had such a horrid experience.


----------



## Boxer123

Must be lucky around here most people seem to have stuck to masks in shops.


----------



## Beth78

I only really go to the corner shop and it's still only 2 people in the shop at a time there, wearing masks as well.

I'm due to go into town on Tuesday and I'm dreading it abit, not been anywhere so busy for a long, long time.


----------



## SbanR

Each week when I go into town there at fewer and fewer people wearing masks


----------



## lorilu

willa said:


> Day 3 after Pfizer and I'm still not right. Still getting dull headaches, fatigue & now have stomach cramps & icky tummy. Slept a lot of the day again
> 
> Can't tell if I've caught some bug, or if I'm just unlucky with the side effects


I vote for side effects. Give it time, just rest and drink fluids.


----------



## lorilu

SbanR said:


> Each week when I go into town there at fewer and fewer people wearing masks


Our community has been placed in the high risk category as of Wednesday. I wear a mask. I see a lot more people in them again, but still see a lot without. My hairdresser was not wearing a mask and told me I could take mine off. I said I'd just keep it on, it wasn't bothering me. I patted my pocket and said I brought another to replace the hairy one when we're done here.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Had 13 hours sleep ! Woke thismorning with awful nausea, aching all over & a burning arm
> But Atleast headaches have gone !
> 
> Day on sofa for me today


How are you, hope all the after affects have worn off by now.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> I'm disappointed with our local Tesco's...Before you go into the shop you still have the sanitizer station and big signs asking people to wear masks inside, yet only two staff members were wearing one and both were on the checkouts behind screens all staff on the shop floor that were picking for delivery slots and stacking shelves were maskless.
> 
> You can't expect people that don't want to wear a mask to wear one if none of your staff follow the rules.
> 
> Yeah, yeah...I know it's personal choice and all that but I did not feel safe in the shop this morning...so much so that I ended up walking out


I think I'll stick with Sainbury's. It's my closest supermarket and although it's costing more money to shop there, I feel very safe. It was never very busy at the best of times, and the aisles are really wide so you can steer clear of people. And most of the staff are wearing masks. Not all, but the vast majority. Well done Sainsbury's.


----------



## willa

Happy Paws2 said:


> How are you, hope all the after affects have worn off by now.


Still not right. Just left with horrid upset stomach & cramps. Plus annoying dull sinus headaches that only fade until painkillers wear off.

Been to ask the Pharmacist & he put my mind at ease. He had identical symptoms to me & he sees people everyday with large variety of symptoms.

If it goes on for too much longer I need to speak to my GP he said


----------



## Calvine

Friend had a vet appointment (yesterday I think) and got text to say that they have no vets working at either of their practices! I think if an emergency they had to phone OOH vet and hope that there was someone there.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Still not right. Just left with horrid upset stomach & cramps. Plus annoying dull sinus headaches that only fade until painkillers wear off.
> 
> Been to ask the Pharmacist & he put my mind at ease. He had identical symptoms to me & he sees people everyday with large variety of symptoms.
> 
> If it goes on for too much longer I need to speak to my GP he said


I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, I'd speak to your GP sooner rather than later.


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> only two staff members were wearing one


Our local ''corner shop'' has a sign on the door: ''No admittance without face covering'' - and lo and behold, there is the owner of the shop without one behind the counter.


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Our local ''corner shop'' has a sign on the door: ''No admittance without face covering'' - and lo and behold, there is the owner of the shop without one behind the counter.


No screen?


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> No screen?


Nothing, rona, just standing behind the counter, just taking the money and serving. I didn't go in, but saw through the window. It's a busy little shop and he must come into contact with God knows how many people daily. Even now, when I still stay home as much as I can, I still wear a mask on trains/buses and in shops. If I'm going from shop to bus, I leave it on in between. Ah well!


----------



## willa

Finally starting to feel more like myself again. 

Seems I was just very unlucky with all the side effects . However I’d rather have that for a week, then get Covid obviously


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Finally starting to feel more like myself again.
> 
> Seems I was just very unlucky with all the side effects . However I'd rather have that for a week, then get Covid obviously


So pleased your feeling better,


----------



## Jesthar




----------



## rona

Have just cancelled a trip out with a friend next week, as her son is at the Reading festival. With reduced protection due to tablets, I'm not taking the risk.
We can meet up again in a few weeks.

What would you do?


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Have just cancelled a trip out with a friend next week, as her son is at the Reading festival. With reduced protection do to tablets, I'm not taking the risk.
> We can meet up again in a few weeks.
> 
> What would you do?


Exactly the same. I have some friends who moved near to me a year ago. He's only just had his first vaccination, and his wife hasn't even bothered to get an appointment to have one. I've told them both much as I'd like to meet up with them, I'm not doing so until they're both fully vaccinated.

I've had both my jabs plus a booster, but even so I could still become infected and if I was asymptomatic and the wife became infected as a result I'd never forgive myself


----------



## Boxer123

rona said:


> Have just cancelled a trip out with a friend next week, as her son is at the Reading festival. With reduced protection due to tablets, I'm not taking the risk.
> We can meet up again in a few weeks.
> 
> What would you do?


I think it's the right choice a lot of Covid coming back from festivals. Sox breeder has it as her son bought it home.


----------



## Isolette

A different and very hard world out there. You are all coping so well in this longdrawn out trial .

I am still sequestered but that was so way before covid as we know my immune system is down and it was risky even then. 
With the M.E I mean.

So life has not changed in any appreciable way and I am content enough and safe, Hard to imagine what yu are all going through out there. In thoughts and prayers. 
PS can you imagine if we did not have the internet and eg forums.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Isolette said:


> PS can you imagine if we did not have the internet and eg forums.


it doesn't bare thinking about, where would be be with out our virtual friends at the moment.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Went down to Sainsbury's this morning I was surprised how many younger people weren't wearing masks, even with a sign as you go in asking you to wear one and reminders coming over the tannnoy asking you to wear one.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> Went down to Sainsbury's this morning I was surprised how many younger people weren't wearing masks, even with a sign as you go in asking you to wear one and reminders coming over the tannnoy asking you to wear one.


But they don't have to 
This is the whole problem 
Entitlement


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Went down to Sainsbury's this morning I was surprised how many younger people weren't wearing masks, even with a sign as you go in asking you to wear one and reminders coming over the tannnoy asking you to wear one.


many are refusing to have covid vaccinations too. 
They were interviewing young people at a music festival . all crowded together , they were blase about it , saying if we get it , we get it .


----------



## margy

My friend works at Morrisons and last week rang me to say she had tested positive. She has been double vaccinated and luckily it just felt like a heavy cold. She probably caught it from some idiot not wearing a mask.


----------



## Beth78

I've just got back from a rare trip to Tesco and over half the shoppers were maskless, all the staff were wearing masks which is good.


----------



## Siskin

I’m coming to the conclusion it depends where you live with mask wearing. My area is generally middle class fairly well off and well educated and from what I’ve been told most people are wearing masks in shops, without wanting to sound like a middle class snob I can only assume this is why.
Hope I’ve not come over all sweeping and generalising, it’s only my thoughts. Apologies if I have.


----------



## Beth78

Siskin said:


> I'm coming to the conclusion it depends where you live with mask wearing. My area is generally middle class fairly well off and well educated and from what I've been told most people are wearing masks in shops, without wanting to sound like a middle class snob I can only assume this is why.
> Hope I've not come over all sweeping and generalising, it's only my thoughts. Apologies if I have.


You're probably right there.


----------



## daveos

Mask wearing should have been kept indoors imho at least till next spring.
My area is also middle class but also has a very high student population as a university is only 5 miles away the older population I see are mostly wearing masks and keeping distances it is the younger people who go about into shops in big groups not wearing masks thinking it does not affect them.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Most are wearing masks here still and I wouldn't say it was middle class here, a mix of everything.

I can't help but think that a lot of people are mixing in each others houses now. I think these type situations are more likely to pass something on. You're sitting and talking for hours, laughing etc. Or festivals where you have huge crowds getting drunk and losing inhibitions with no distancing.

At least in this peak there are far less hospitalisations and deaths which has to be a marked improvement


----------



## Isolette

Ireland is not in a good place with this just now. Our hospitals eg Castlebar, are under siege and not coping. I watch it from my small safe isolated island. Y;day I joined in a chat after a news report online and they are equating taking care with fear and weakness and of course covid is only the common cold. These are the young folk as others record here. They think they are invulnerable. Sneering and mocking at anyone who takes care. ignorant bravado. We as many others have lost family to covid; they have not.


----------



## mrs phas

Covid back in to 10 causes of death 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58305191

Yet 
Health experts, former government officials and charities are calling on world leaders to call a global summit to end the pandemic
Not sure the virus will listen though


----------



## Isolette

mrs phas said:


> Covid back in to 10 causes of death
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58305191
> 
> Yet
> Health experts, former government officials and charities are calling on world leaders to call a global summit to end the pandemic
> Not sure the virus will listen though


Here while the figures are high they are abandoning precautions officially. This is the vaccine input. Which makes sense in some ways. iAs you say. if the virus takes any heed.


----------



## MilleD

Isolette said:


> Here while the figures are high they are abandoning precautions officially. This is the vaccine input. Which makes sense in some ways. iAs you say. if the virus takes any heed.


The vaccine does appear to be doing it's job at the moment. Deaths are not now following the case rises as they did before the vaccinations were introduced.


----------



## Isolette

MilleD said:


> The vaccine does appear to be doing it's job at the moment. Deaths are not now following the case rises as they did before the vaccinations were introduced.
> 
> View attachment 475321


There is concern re the virus changing and the vaccine not covering that? Whatever no cause yet for the complacency we are ​seeing?


----------



## MilleD

Isolette said:


> There is concern re the virus changing and the vaccine not covering that? Whatever no cause yet for the complacency we are
> seeing?


There's been lots of "may" & "if" etc in the media. But the media just want clickbait so until it's catagorical....

The rules were dropped, complacency was always going to follow. It's now down to us as individuals to decide what risks we are willing to take I guess.


----------



## Isolette

MilleD said:


> There's been lots of "may" & "if" etc in the media. But the media just want clickbait so until it's catagorical....
> 
> The rules were dropped, complacency was always going to follow. It's now down to us as individuals to decide what risks we are willing to take I guess.


The problem there is that it is not just US but the ongoing effect our actions will inevitably have on those around us? Given the incubation time etc. The younger ones who live for live music etc ? They really think they are immune. One on a thread yesterday described covid as just the common cold.


----------



## MilleD

Isolette said:


> The problem there is that it is not just US but the ongoing effect our actions will inevitably have on those around us? Given the incubation time etc. The younger ones who live for live music etc ? They really think they are immune. One on a thread yesterday described covid as just the common cold.


It's those around us we need to protect _ourselves _from.

I'm not a 'younger one' as such, but I cannot wait to go and see live music properly. I've been to a couple of small outdoor gigs, and felt very safe. We socially distanced for the most part (that falls apart a little after alcohol I admit) and we were all fully vaccinated.

Got a proper gig booked for next year (been postponed for 2 years) and I can't wait. But if I don't feel safe there I guess I would leave. Time will tell.

Life can't be on hold forever. Imagine if no-one makes any more music because it isn't financially viable (tours are needed) or there's no more theatre to be seen.

I don't want a world like that.


----------



## Isolette

MilleD said:


> It's those around us we need to protect _ourselves _from.
> 
> I'm not a 'younger one' as such, but I cannot wait to go and see live music properly. I've been to a couple of small outdoor gigs, and felt very safe. We socially distanced for the most part (that falls apart a little after alcohol I admit) and we were all fully vaccinated.
> 
> Got a proper gig booked for next year (been postponed for 2 years) and I can't wait. But if I don't feel safe there I guess I would leave. Time will tell.
> 
> Life can't be on hold forever. Imagine if no-one makes any more music because it isn't financially viable (tours are needed) or there's no more theatre to be seen.
> 
> I don't want a world like that.


Different lifestyles. My life now, old and in seclusion, was the same before covid as now. For me this IS life and life is not on hold in any way at all.

So for me the world is fine.


----------



## MilleD

Isolette said:


> Different lifestyles. My life now, old and in seclusion, was the same before covid as now. For me this IS life and life is not on hold in any way at all.
> 
> So for me the world is fine.


So you have nothing to worry about if people get complacent?

Most people don't live in isolation. I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make?


----------



## Isolette

MilleD said:


> So you have nothing to worry about if people get complacent?
> 
> Most people don't live in isolation. I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make?


I am concerned that anyone gets ill *needlessly* for whatever reason. with this curse of an illness.

and I am not making a point just describing different lifestyles, as no one I know goes to concerts etc, We socialise differently in remote rural areas,


----------



## LittleEms

MilleD said:


> It's those around us we need to protect _ourselves _from.
> 
> I'm not a 'younger one' as such, but I cannot wait to go and see live music properly. I've been to a couple of small outdoor gigs, and felt very safe. We socially distanced for the most part (that falls apart a little after alcohol I admit) and we were all fully vaccinated.
> 
> Got a proper gig booked for next year (been postponed for 2 years) and I can't wait. But if I don't feel safe there I guess I would leave. Time will tell.
> 
> Life can't be on hold forever. Imagine if no-one makes any more music because it isn't financially viable (tours are needed) or there's no more theatre to be seen.
> 
> I don't want a world like that.


Totally agree with you! I have a theatre show booked for the 9th Sept. I'm fairly confident that it will be a safe environment as they have entry requirements etc, and I believe that people who want to see shows are of a similar, sensible mindset. It's been far too long since I have seen a show! However I will have my mask in my pocket and will put it on while moving around and if I decide I don't feel as safe as I think I will. In contrast, I also had tickets for the GP at Silverstone and I am so glad I rolled them over till next year.


----------



## ForestWomble

Where I live I've seen plenty of older people not wearing masks, as this is, in general, an older community I don't see many people my age or younger so can't comment on which age group is 'worse' around here.

However, I just want to add, just because someone isn't wearing a mask it doesn't automatically make them 'selfish' or 'stupid' or any of the other terms I've seen mentioned on here, yes, some probably are being selfish etc, but not everyone. I'd love to be able to wear a mask, but can't, maybe the fact a mask causes me to not be able to breath properly, I start to feel sick and dizzy, then I get a panic attack and then I feel awful for the rest of the day so I want to avoid that is being selfish, but I hardly ever put myself in a position when I would need to wear a mask, I haven't entered a shop since 2019! When I feel brave enough to do so, I will wear the face shield I have instead of a mask.

I've never been social, prefer my own company, but since this all started I've been even less sociable and I can't see things changing for a while, with everything having opened again I feel so scared and my mental health is worse now than it was during the lockdown (if anything my mental health improved due to the lockdown), I will continue to stay in my own little 'lockdown' until things improve and hope that that is sooner rather than later.


----------



## Isolette

ForestWomble said:


> Where I live I've seen plenty of older people not wearing masks, as this is, in general, an older community I don't see many people my age or younger so can't comment on which age group is 'worse' around here.
> 
> However, I just want to add, just because someone isn't wearing a mask it doesn't automatically make them 'selfish' or 'stupid' or any of the other terms I've seen mentioned on here, yes, some probably are being selfish etc, but not everyone. I'd love to be able to wear a mask, but can't, maybe the fact a mask causes me to not be able to breath properly, I start to feel sick and dizzy, then I get a panic attack and then I feel awful for the rest of the day so I want to avoid that is being selfish, but I hardly ever put myself in a position when I would need to wear a mask, I haven't entered a shop since 2019! When I feel brave enough to do so, I will wear the face shield I have instead of a mask.
> 
> I've never been social, prefer my own company, but since this all started I've been even less sociable and I can't see things changing for a while, with everything having opened again I feel so scared and my mental health is worse now than it was during the lockdown (if anything my mental health improved due to the lockdown), I will continue to stay in my own little 'lockdown' until things improve and hope that that is sooner rather than later.


Thank you for this brave and realistic post. I have similar issues as with bad CFS/ME going out is a near impossoibility and the pandemic has made almost no change to my lifestyle. There is a mask by the door but no one comes so that is grand. Only time I wore one was on the air ambulance chopper way back. 
Do whatever eases you, and gently to yourself. Let others support you a while longer.

Take it gently please. I will stay in my almost permanent lockdown perforce so you are not alone.


----------



## Isolette

Need ti say here that we, my extended family have lost five of our family to covid. They were in India working with throwaway babies. Strong healthy young women. 

So I can never see it as lightly as some folk do . It is a killer to be respected in the fullest sense as such


----------



## ForestWomble

Isolette said:


> Thank you for this brave and realistic post. I have similar issues as with bad CFS/ME going out is a near impossoibility and the pandemic has made almost no change to my lifestyle. There is a mask by the door but no one comes so that is grand. Only time I wore one was on the air ambulance chopper way back.
> Do whatever eases you, and gently to yourself. Let others support you a while longer.
> 
> Take it gently please. I will stay in my almost permanent lockdown perforce so you are not alone.


Thank you, I'm practically housebound due to physical and mental health, before covid I only went out on my own to take my little dog for short walks, now even that is difficult I do struggle to take him out as the area is so built up, we are all so close to each other, being out in the street I'm on alert as I can't just step off a pavement and have to rely on others to do the right thing (wheelchair user), I don't even feel comfortable being in the communal outside area if my neighbours are out there (never have as the main ones who use out there smoke and I can't get away from the smell so it's not nice), I do feel trapped and it would be nice to be able to take my dog outside without having to worry about getting trapped on a pavement or somewhere, or worry that a neighbour might come out while I'm out there.


----------



## ForestWomble

Isolette said:


> Need ti say here that we, my extended family have lost five of our family to covid. They were in India working with throwaway babies. Strong healthy young women.
> 
> So I can never see it as lightly as some folk do . It is a killer to be respected in the fullest sense as such


Very sorry to hear that.


----------



## Isolette

ForestWomble said:


> Thank you, I'm practically housebound due to physical and mental health, before covid I only went out on my own to take my little dog for short walks, now even that is difficult I do struggle to take him out as the area is so built up, we are all so close to each other, being out in the street I'm on alert as I can't just step off a pavement and have to rely on others to do the right thing (wheelchair user), I don't even feel comfortable being in the communal outside area if my neighbours are out there (never have as the main ones who use out there smoke and I can't get away from the smell so it's not nice), I do feel trapped and it would be nice to be able to take my dog outside without having to worry about getting trapped on a pavement or somewhere, or worry that a neighbour might come out while I'm out there.


HUGS..… And more HUGS.. I was so like that for a long time. Not a wheelchair though . Now I still choose to go out in the early hours. NB I am on a small offshore island that is barely populated. I made my way here by degrees from city life. I know others in similar situations and how hard it is. Keep trying? at your own pace. Little steps as you can.


----------



## LittleEms

Around here (east Devon) most of the people not wearing masks are holiday-makers (at least in the supermarkets). I haven’t ventured out other than local walks or to the shops all summer because the influx of visitors has skyrocketed our cases  Everyone I know who lives here has been extra careful recently because people just visiting sadly don’t seem to care about us!


----------



## Isolette

ForestWomble said:


> Very sorry to hear that.


Thank you. This is why I take covid so seriously. The babies were dying at a terrible rate . Heartbreaking.

Some folk think I am being too careful but I have no working immune system because of the CFS/ME . There is no way I will risk covid. Life is precious.


----------



## Isolette

LittleEms said:


> Around here (east Devon) most of the people not wearing masks are holiday-makers (at least in the supermarkets). I haven't ventured out other than local walks or to the shops all summer because the influx of visitors has skyrocketed our cases  Everyone I know who loves here has been extra careful recently because people just busing sadly don't seem to care about us!


 Thus year there are more tourists than ever as they were unable to go abroad. I know someone on Achill Island and the beaches are crammed with campervans etc. Same results.


----------



## ForestWomble

Isolette said:


> Thank you. This is why I take covid so seriously. The babies were dying at a terrible rate . Heartbreaking.
> 
> Some folk think I am being too careful but I have no working immune system because of the CFS/ME . There is no way I will risk covid. Life is precious.


I can't 'like' that but please know my heart goes out to you and your family.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Went to an outdoor market last weekend and genuinely only the sellers at the stalls, my partner, and myself were wearing masks. There were probably 50+ people there. As soon as I stepped out the car I froze in shock, it was as if I had been transported back to 2019 before all of this began. I even asked my relative who was there too why nobody was wearing a mask and she said “it’s outdoors who needs to?” perhaps the dozen people crowding around the food stall need to?? Or the groups of people inside enclosed tents need to? Anyway, my partner and I kept ours on as we will for a long time most likely. We are fortunate enough to be able to wear them so why not?

Also where has this notion that covid doesn’t spread outdoors come from? While the risk is greatly reduced, if you are in an outdoor area with dozens of unmasked people that “greatly reduced risk” does not protect you so much.


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> Also where has this notion that covid doesn't spread outdoors come from? While the risk is greatly reduced, if you are in an outdoor area with dozens of unmasked people that "greatly reduced risk" does not protect you so much.


Because it doesn't spread _as easily _outdoors_.
_
I haven't heard anyone say it doesn't spread _at all_ outdoors.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

My anxiety levels haven't dropped - in fact they are probably increasing. A couple we know (my husband went to the pub in the garden with him last Thursday evening) now have Covid. He messaged on Saturday morning to say he had Covid, so now my husband is doing LFTs each day (he feels well) as we cannot risk anything with my job. His wife sadly has it and is pretty unwell by all accounts. What has happened to her is my worst fear - that I get it and then pass it to husband/one of the women in my care, as she's caught it from her husband. He was away the weekend before last for a motorbike thing, so perhaps that's where he caught it. I guess he will never know.

In the hunt for things for Oscar, I went to Tesco on Monday. Awful. Barely anyone wearing a mask - all ages of shopper - I was in to the cat food aisle, checked for the right batch number (unsuccessful) and out again. If I could have done it without breathing I would have.

We are meant to be going to a party next weekend...I was sort of doing it as a "test event" for myself but I just don't know. Last time we went out in a group indoor situation, in the middle of August, several folk then developed Covid. I am trying to be more normal but I just cannot. My best friend said that she thinks I'm being silly and I need some help as if it's stopping me doing things I want to do, then I need to sort myself out. Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about that either! The only thing I am doing - and have always done - is run outside.

I think everyone needs to see @Jackie C 's post on the Petty Things thread.


----------



## Isolette

Mrs Funkin said:


> In the hunt for things for Oscar, I went to Tesco on Monday. Awful. Barely anyone wearing a mask - all ages of shopper - I was in to the cat food aisle, checked for the right batch number (unsuccessful) and out again. If I could have done it without breathing I would have.
> 
> We are meant to be going to a party next weekend...I was sort of doing it as a "test event" for myself but I just don't know. Last time we went out in a group indoor situation, in the middle of August, several folk then developed Covid*. I am trying to be more normal but I just cannot. *My best friend said that she thinks I'm being silly and I need some help as if it's stopping me doing things I want to do, then I need to sort myself out. Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about that either! The only thing I am doing - and have always done - is run outside.
> 
> I think everyone needs to see @Jackie C 's post on the Petty Things thread.


YOU ARE RIGHT.

Normal during a pandemic is not normal by.. usual standards.

Small wonder reading this that covid is gaining ground still..

I WANT to stay well. is the buzzword.

Stay strong and well whatever that takes? Please do not take risks after what has already happened when there have been social events.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> Because it doesn't spread _as easily _outdoors_.
> _
> I haven't heard anyone say it doesn't spread _at all_ outdoors.


I know that it doesn't spread as easily outdoors, that's why in my original post I acknowledged that the risk is greatly reduced. You may not have heard anyone believe it cannot be spread outdoors but case in point is my relative who, despite me explaining how an airborne virus works, still believes you cannot catch covid outdoors. I'm sure she's not alone in this misunderstanding. As my partner and I have no health complications that interfere with wearing a mask, we are not comfortable taking that greatly reduced risk at the moment. It was just shocking to see nobody else other than the stall sellers in the same mind frame as us. At the end of the day people can do what they want (it's not a law after all) but I struggle to understand their reasoning.


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> Went to an outdoor market last weekend and genuinely only the sellers at the stalls, my partner, and myself were wearing masks. There were probably 50+ people there. As soon as I stepped out the car I froze in shock, it was as if I had been transported back to 2019 before all of this began. I even asked my relative who was there too why nobody was wearing a mask and she said "it's outdoors who needs to?" perhaps the dozen people crowding around the food stall need to?? Or the groups of people inside enclosed tents need to? Anyway, my partner and I kept ours on as we will for a long time most likely. We are fortunate enough to be able to wear them so why not?
> 
> Also where has this notion that covid doesn't spread outdoors come from? While the risk is greatly reduced, if you are in an outdoor area with dozens of unmasked people that "greatly reduced risk" does not protect you so much.


If you are that concerned about being amongst unmasked people maybe you shouldn't have gone? I know you were wearing a mask but in general that protects other people. Cloth masks don't prevent aerosols from the unmasked.

As you say though the risk outdoors is minimal as long as you keep away from others


----------



## Isolette

bmr10 said:


> I know that it doesn't spread as easily outdoors, that's why in my original post I acknowledged that the risk is greatly reduced. You may not have heard anyone believe it cannot be spread outdoors but case in point is my relative who, despite me explaining how an airborne virus works, still believes you cannot catch covid outdoors. I'm sure she's not alone in this misunderstanding. As my partner and I have no health complications that interfere with wearing a mask, we are not comfortable taking that greatly reduced risk at the moment. It was just shocking to see nobody else other than the stall sellers in the same mind frame as us. At the end of the day people can do what they want (it's not a law after all) but I struggle to understand their reasoning.


This has been going on for so long that folk may just be weary of it and seeking back to normal? Would have thought it would by now be an ingrained habit though as it is with you?


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> I know that it doesn't spread as easily outdoors, that's why in my original post I acknowledged that the risk is greatly reduced. You may not have heard anyone believe it cannot be spread outdoors but case in point is my relative who, despite me explaining how an airborne virus works, still believes you cannot catch covid outdoors. I'm sure she's not alone in this misunderstanding. As my partner and I have no health complications that interfere with wearing a mask, we are not comfortable taking that greatly reduced risk at the moment. It was just shocking to see nobody else other than the stall sellers in the same mind frame as us. At the end of the day people can do what they want (it's not a law after all) but I struggle to understand their reasoning.


I see wearing a mask more as protecting the folks around me, not me from them. And so if I don't feel happy going somewhere, I don't go.

It isn't mandatory so you can't expect people to do it now. Hell, lots of people didn't do it when it was.

The choice now is going places you feel safe.


----------



## Jobeth

If you work in a school then this is the latest guidance unless there is a substantial increase:


----------



## £54etgfb6

Isolette said:


> This has been going on for so long that folk may just be weary of it and seeking back to normal? Would have thought it would by now be an ingrained habit though as it is with you?


Oh, I can list reasons _why_ someone may not be keen to wear a mask, especially outdoors. They don't believe they'll catch it, they think those around them don't have it, they think it would be a mild flu if they were to catch it, they're happy to take the smaller risk when outdoors, they're tired of the entire pandemic and give up so to speak, they don't think covid exists, etc, etc. I just personally can't put myself in their shoes as for me wearing a mask has no negative effects on my health (mental and physical) so there are no drawbacks to me. I wear a mask for an 8 hour shift and then go to the library and wear it for another 3 hours. I can't really put myself in the shoes of someone who _can_ wear one but just chooses not to. If you can afford them and they don't impact your health then what's the harm?

I'm probably not going to crash my car if I don't wear my seatbelt and even if I do crash, I won't necessarily die, but even if it weren't the law I wouldn't consider going without it because there are no negative effects of wearing one. That's how I see wearing masks and it was just shocking to see a whole field full of adults and not one of them wearing a mask.


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> I'm probably not going to crash my car if I don't wear my seatbelt and even if I do crash, I won't necessarily die, but even if it weren't the law I wouldn't consider going without it because there are no negative effects of wearing one. That's how I see wearing masks and it was just shocking to see a whole field full of adults and not one of them wearing a mask.


The seatbelt analogy doesn't really work because it's so second nature now to most people.

Go back to when it was brought in and there were many, many people who refused to wear them, even though the benefits were fairly obvious, and the wearing of them fairly innocuous.


----------



## Isolette

The thread I responded to on youtube had all the shades of meaning you list so cogently... but there was also the strong hint that it was not … word.... well, that it was in some way cowardly to wear one. There was that bravado thing of it wont get me. Jeering at the idea. These were young folk.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> I see wearing a mask more as protecting the folks around me, not me from them. And so if I don't feel happy going somewhere, I don't go.
> 
> It isn't mandatory so you can't expect people to do it now. Hell, lots of people didn't do it when it was.
> 
> The choice now is going places you feel safe.


I don't expect them to unless it is law it was really just odd because amongst the people I know at university there is a unanimous understanding that masks should be worn. Outside of friends from university, colleagues at work (who must wear masks), and family I don't socialise with anyone else. Due to this, I'm not used to being confronted with dozens of people all at once who have the opposite view on masks to me. It was polarising is all. Very unusual too as around the university (where I live) most of the people walking outdoors wear a mask so I am genuinely used to seeing people outdoors wearing one. That's why it felt like I was back in 2019. I agree with you that it is about going places you feel comfortable but how do you accurately measure the risk? That is what I struggle with. I go out to eat with my partner and I question why I'm doing it when I don't know what the risk to me is and it's an unnecessary outing.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> The seatbelt analogy doesn't really work because it's so second nature now to most people.
> 
> Go back to when it was brought in and there were many, many people who refused to wear them, even though the benefits were fairly obvious, and the wearing of them fairly innocuous.


It probably doesn't work but that's just how I view them- an item designed for safety that doesn't have any negative impacts (for me). I'm sure there was a lot of backlash to the introduction of seatbelts and I've met adults today who don't wear one (and don't make their children wear one!). I can think of reasons why they don't it's just hard for me to actually see it from their point of view- the same with masks.


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> I don't expect them to unless it is law it was really just odd because amongst the people I know at university there is a unanimous understanding that masks should be worn. Outside of friends from university, colleagues at work (who must wear masks), and family I don't socialise with anyone else. Due to this, I'm not used to being confronted with dozens of people all at once who have the opposite view on masks to me. It was polarising is all. Very unusual too as around the university (where I live) most of the people walking outdoors wear a mask so I am genuinely used to seeing people outdoors wearing one. That's why it felt like I was back in 2019. I agree with you that it is about going places you feel comfortable but how do you accurately measure the risk? That is what I struggle with. I go out to eat with my partner and I question why I'm doing it when I don't know what the risk to me is and it's an unnecessary outing.


People walking outdoors wear a mask? Are they crowded paths with little distancing? Because otherwise that seems a tad excessive?


----------



## £54etgfb6

Isolette said:


> The thread I responded to on youtube had all the shades of meaning you list so cogently... but there was also the strong hint that it was not … word.... well, that it was in some way cowardly to wear one. There was that bravado thing of it wont get me. Jeering at the idea. These were young folk.


I believe there are a lot of young (and older!) people who have a sense of arrogance with their health. Ill health has never touched them and maybe they view it as something that will happen near the end of their lifespan but not now. They haven't experienced the impacts of being severely ill and it is a faraway concept to them. I don't think there's any way to make these people understand the reality of their own mortality other than education- what they choose to believe is up to them at the end of it all.


----------



## Magyarmum

Yesterday I went into the city and only saw two people wearing masks in the largest shopping mall in the city. 

Interestingly enough they were both Chinese to whom the culture of mask wearing has been accepted for years.


----------



## £54etgfb6

HarlequinCat said:


> People walking outdoors wear a mask? Are they crowded paths with little distancing? Because otherwise that seems a tad excessive?


Is it excessive though? No one is enforcing it but many people choose to wear one because why not? Who does it harm? If I leave the library I keep mine on as I walk the 15 minutes to the bus stop because why not? It reduces that already small risk that I'll infect someone (providing I have covid) and doesn't harm or bother me to wear it. Additionally, it's easier for me to just keep it on rather than put it in my backpack and then fumble around trying to get it back out when the bus arrives.


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> . I agree with you that it is about going places you feel comfortable but how do you accurately measure the risk? That is what I struggle with. I go out to eat with my partner and I question why I'm doing it when I don't know what the risk to me is and it's an unnecessary outing.


That's the problem with measuring risk, it's all a bit hit and miss.

I think you need to work out whether the thing you want to do is more important than the 'perceived' risk _you _might think is inherent in that activity.

It boils down to what sort of person you are ultimately and your attitude to that perceived risk. No-one can tell you what that is unfortunately.

Hope you work it out.


----------



## kimthecat

HarlequinCat said:


> People walking outdoors wear a mask? Are they crowded paths with little distancing? Because otherwise that seems a tad excessive?


I dont wear a mask when walking the dog but i do when Ive been to the town's high street and precinct as they are busy now.


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> Is it excessive though? No one is enforcing it but many people choose to wear one because why not? Who does it harm? If I leave the library I keep mine on as I walk the 15 minutes to the bus stop because why not? It reduces that already small risk that I'll infect someone (providing I have covid) and doesn't harm or bother me to wear it. Additionally, it's easier for me to just keep it on rather than put it in my backpack and then fumble around trying to get it back out when the bus arrives.


Each to their own. To me it is excessive if on a walk you may pass a person or 2 but you know you can easily bypass them. A fleeting second of passing a person is the most minimal risk I can imagine. A busy high street where you are brushing shoulders with a constant stream of people is another thing.

Eating out to me is risky. People walk around wearing masks but then happily take them off to sit in a cafe or restaurant with many other people bemuses me! To me that is more risky because you are spending an extended time in one place usually in an enclosed area.


----------



## LittleEms

HarlequinCat said:


> Each to their own. To me it is excessive if on a walk you may pass a person or 2 but you know you can easily bypass them. A fleeting second of passing a person is the most minimal risk I can imagine. A busy high street where you are brushing shoulders with a constant stream of people is another thing.
> 
> Eating out to me is risky. People walk around wearing masks but then happily take them off to sit in a cafe or restaurant with many other people bemuses me! To me that is more risky because you are spending an extended time in one place usually in an enclosed area.


That's the sort of thing I do too. Local walks I don't bother with a mask (though I do keep one in my pocket!) as I live in the sticks and the likelihood of passing other people is small. Anywhere else I'll probably have a mask on, especially as my locality is currently flooded with holidaymakers.


----------



## £54etgfb6

HarlequinCat said:


> Each to their own. To me it is excessive if on a walk you may pass a person or 2 but you know you can easily bypass them. A fleeting second of passing a person is the most minimal risk I can imagine. A busy high street where you are brushing shoulders with a constant stream of people is another thing.
> 
> Eating out to me is risky. People walk around wearing masks but then happily take them off to sit in a cafe or restaurant with many other people bemuses me! To me that is more risky because you are spending an extended time in one place usually in an enclosed area.


I completely understand what you mean and I am in a hypocritical position in that I've gone out to eat in public but wear my mask outdoors when walking (unless in the countryside). So far I've only eaten in restaurants when logistically it wasn't easy to eat food at home. The reasons are a bit complicated that I won't go into as it's not relevant but for the first time this week I am due to eat out in public as part of a get-together. It's new for me and it's in a restaurant that I walk past often and every time it's packed. In all the places I've eaten before there's usually only one or two other tables occupied. I know at the end of the day I can refuse to go but it's with my partners family so I feel expected to join.

Also, I agree with you on the walking aspect. I think it depends on where you live- I live in a big city so there are not many walks where I pass only a person or 2! Especially being next to the university which constantly has students walking around.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Honestly, I’m now at the stage of “you do you” and “I’ll do me” 

I can’t control what others do and am just doing what I feel comfortable with, in order to try and return to a normal life.

I shall continue with the hands, face, space too for as long as it makes me feel comfortable. 

I was waiting outside the opticians in a busy high street for my friend yesterday and just kept my back to passersby.

I shall be running the snack bar at OH and DS’s football club from next Saturday but will operate it “kiosk style” to keep customers outside for as long as possible through the season. There is a covered seating area and the loos can be accessed from the other end.

I wasn’t planning on wearing a mask though.

I will sanitise the place (and myself) like crazy and put hand sanitiser out for customers to use at the window.

Think I’ll take a desk fan from home and set it facing the window to blow any germs back out too!


----------



## rona

I'm just peed off with people with their little covid carriers invading my space :Banghead

Your kid isn't vaccinated, keep it away form me!


----------



## Isolette

Lurcherlad said:


> Honestly, I'm now at the stage of "you do you" and "I'll do me"
> 
> I can't control what others do and am just doing what I feel comfortable with, in order to try and return to a normal life.
> 
> I shall continue with the hands, face, space too for as long as it makes me feel comfortable.
> 
> I was waiting outside the opticians in a busy high street for my friend yesterday and just kept my back to passersby.
> 
> I shall be running the snack bar at OH and DS's football club from next Saturday but will operate it "kiosk style" to keep customers outside for as long as possible through the season. There is a covered seating area and the loos can be accessed from the other end.
> 
> *I wasn't planning on wearing a mask though.*
> 
> I will sanitise the place (and myself) like crazy and put hand sanitiser out for customers to use at the window.
> 
> *Think I'll take a desk fan from home and set it facing the window to blow any germs back out too! *




That is silly. Just WEAR A MASK, please. We would hate to lose you...


----------



## Lurcherlad

Isolette said:


> That is silly. Just WEAR A MASK, please. We would hate to lose you...


Fair point …. But the mask won't actually protect me though, according to the science, I believe.

I might look for a clear face shield type or wear a mask if I'm at the window


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Fair point …. But the mask won't actually protect me though, according to the science, I believe.
> 
> I might look for a clear face shield type or wear a mask if I'm at the window


If you get a good quality mask it will protect you a bit. Initially this advice was given because there were not enough masks.


----------



## Isolette

Lurcherlad said:


> Fair point …. *But the mask won't actually protect me though, according to the science, I believe.*
> 
> I might look for a clear face shield type or wear a mask if I'm at the window


science pience... changes its mind every time the mood takes it. Of course it protects. A physical barrier…


----------



## Isolette

Boxer123 said:


> If you get a good quality mask it will protect you a bit. Initially this advice was given because there were not enough masks.


Well gee... You can make a mask very easily... My faith family make them to sell to feed our babies in India. Posh ones with insert pockets


----------



## Lurcherlad

Isolette said:


> science pience... changes its mind every time the mood takes it. Of course it protects. A physical barrier…


Ok … I'll do as I'm told! 

I guess as NHS workers don't have the choice, I should show support and solidarity


----------



## Isolette

Lurcherlad said:


> Ok … I'll do as I'm told!
> 
> I guess as NHS workers don't have the choice, I should show support and solidarity


GOOD . But do it as you matter. OK? OK.


----------



## SbanR

Lurcherlad said:


> Fair point …. But the mask won't actually protect me though, according to the science, I believe.
> 
> I might look for a clear face shield type or wear a mask if I'm at the window


But definitely have that fan!!


----------



## Boxer123

So it’s my friends birthday she’s having a party Saturday. I know at least one guest has a close family member who has Covid. I’m really not wanting Covid especially a month before my marathon but am going to end up with no friends at this rate.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Boxer123 said:


> So it's my friends birthday she's having a party Saturday. I know at least one guest has a close family member who has Covid. I'm really not wanting Covid especially a month before my marathon but am going to end up with no friends at this rate.


Has this guest isolated for 10-14 days (I forget what the government recommend now) and not been in contact with their relative since? If not then I wouldn't go as they are at risk of having covid from their relative.


----------



## Boxer123

bmr10 said:


> Has this guest isolated for 10-14 days (I forget what the government recommend now) and not been in contact with their relative since? If not then I wouldn't go as they are at risk of having covid from their relative.


No because you don't need to any more do you ? I get confused of the rules.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Boxer123 said:


> No because you don't need to any more do you ? I get confused of the rules.


Our advice in the pharmacy I work in (in Scotland so scottish gov may be different) is that if you have been in contact with someone who has tested positive for covid then you are required to isolate and book a PCR test. If your PCR test is negative you can stop isolating while obviously avoiding your positive-testing contact. If your PCR test is positive you must self isolate for 10 days.

If this persons close relative has tested positive, and the person that will be at the gathering has not self isolated for 10-14 days I would not personally risk it as they could be infected even asymptomatically.


----------



## Boxer123

bmr10 said:


> Our advice in the pharmacy I work in (in Scotland so scottish gov may be different) is that if you have been in contact with someone who has tested positive for covid then you are required to isolate and book a PCR test. If your PCR test is negative you can stop isolating while obviously avoiding your positive-testing contact. If your PCR test is positive you must self isolate for 10 days.
> 
> If this persons close relative has tested positive, and the person that will be at the gathering has not self isolated for 10-14 days I would not personally risk it as they could be infected even asymptomatically.


It's also just the thought of lots of people I'm not sure I'm ready to party


----------



## ForestWomble

@Boxer123 If you choose not to go and you loose your friend, do you want to be friends with someone who gets that upset over you wanting to keep yourself safe?


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> @Boxer123 If you choose not to go and you loose your friend, do you want to be friends with someone who gets that upset over you wanting to keep yourself safe?


I know, I'm trying to work hard on not being such a people pleaser but it's a struggle. I find Covid adds an extra layer of stress with life.


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Our advice in the pharmacy I work in (in Scotland so scottish gov may be different) is that if you have been in contact with someone who has tested positive for covid then you are required to isolate and book a PCR test. If your PCR test is negative you can stop isolating while obviously avoiding your positive-testing contact. If your PCR test is positive you must self isolate for 10 days.
> 
> If this persons close relative has tested positive, and the person that will be at the gathering has not self isolated for 10-14 days I would not personally risk it as they could be infected even asymptomatically.


My DIL in Cornwall went into isolation after having come back from Scotland and being told her niece whom she'd only seen briefly, had Covid. Her sister tested negative and as did my DIL so she came out of isolation after 5 days..


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> I'm just peed off with people with their little covid carriers invading my space :Banghead
> 
> Your kid isn't vaccinated, keep it away form me!


My new upstairs neighbour had 5, yes FIVE, grandkids plus teenage babysitter staying for the weekend in her tiny studio flat. If that wasn't bad enough they were, I presume from the noise, bouncing on the bed and jumping on the floor and running along the corridor banging doors until past 3am.
It was reported and she said she didn't realise she was making so much noise. In future I'm supposed to bang on her ceiling if it annoys me. I ask you........!!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> No because you don't need to any more do you ? I get confused of the rules.


Not unless they share a house.

Honestly, a true friend would understand and respect your concerns imo and not hold it against you.


----------



## Cully

Boxer123 said:


> I know, I'm trying to work hard on not being such a people pleaser but it's a struggle. I find Covid adds an extra layer of stress with life.


Do what makes you feel safest regardless of what expectations other people have of you. It's your life and health you are risking.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> My new upstairs neighbour had 5, yes FIVE, grandkids plus teenage babysitter staying for the weekend in her tiny studio flat. If that wasn't bad enough they were, I presume from the noise, bouncing on the bed and jumping on the floor and running along the corridor banging doors until past 3am.
> It was reported and she said she didn't realise she was making so much noise. In future I'm supposed to bang on her ceiling if it annoys me. I ask you........!!


I hope you have a long handle broom to hand


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> I hope you have a long handle broom to hand


Ha! The noise they were making I'd need a pneumatic drill:Banghead.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm with you @Boxer123 if people don't like how I want to be, so be it.

I have spent the day literally BEGGING pregnant women to have their vaccinations. Pregnant women are dying. Their babies are dying before they get a chance to be in the arms of their mummies. It shouldn't be happening and it doesn't need to happen. How can it STILL be this awful? How?

For the love of all things equal, keep yourselves safe. I spend my day in a mask, visor, apron and gloves. I'll happily do that to keep my husband safe.

Can you tell we've had a bit of a week of it?


----------



## MissKittyKat

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm with you @Boxer123 if people don't like how I want to be, so be it.
> 
> I have spent the day literally BEGGING pregnant women to have their vaccinations. Pregnant women are dying. Their babies are dying before they get a chance to be in the arms of their mummies. It shouldn't be happening and it doesn't need to happen. How can it STILL be this awful? How?
> 
> For the love of all things equal, keep yourselves safe. I spend my day in a mask, visor, apron and gloves. I'll happily do that to keep my husband safe.
> 
> Can you tell we've had a bit of a week of it?





Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm with you @Boxer123 if people don't like how I want to be, so be it.
> 
> I have spent the day literally BEGGING pregnant women to have their vaccinations. Pregnant women are dying. Their babies are dying before they get a chance to be in the arms of their mummies. It shouldn't be happening and it doesn't need to happen. How can it STILL be this awful? How?
> 
> For the love of all things equal, keep yourselves safe. I spend my day in a mask, visor, apron and gloves. I'll happily do that to keep my husband safe.
> 
> Can you tell we've had a bit of a week of it?


Hugs xx


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Double hugs  I like it xx


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Had a text from aforementioned friend’s daughter yesterday to say they’d had to call the Ambo. She was checked over, SATS were okay so she is still home but very scary for her daughter I think. I’m hoping for a better update today. 

We await the booster news at work…


----------



## rona

15 covid cases in a local care home


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> 15 covid cases in a local care home




Our two local hospitals are now closed to visitors to the wards due to the rise in Covid.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Our two local hospitals are now closed to visitors to the wards due to the rise in Covid.


Oh dear

We've had our first deaths for well over a month


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Oh dear
> 
> We've had our first deaths for well over a month


 Its going to get worse this winter I expect. Ive got that song in my head, Mamma Mia , here we go again.


----------



## Siskin

I was sent this today


----------



## kimthecat

@Siskin :Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

Ex-French health minister charged over COVID handling | Coronavirus pandemic News | Al Jazeera

^^^^^^ interesting.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> Ex-French health minister charged over COVID handling | Coronavirus pandemic News | Al Jazeera
> 
> ^^^^^^ interesting.


Macron has a lot to answer over this as well. His scare tactics over the AZ vaccine has put so much fear into people that they won't have it. Parts of Africa are crying out for vaccine, the AZ is widely available and easy to store and should help solve this, but people are frightened to have it as they have only heard what Macron had said initially (he did back down later) and have refused the jab. Many have become very sick and the death rate is high.


----------



## Boxer123

What do we think of the winter plan ? I wish they would bring back masks.


----------



## MollySmith

It doesn’t feel like Sage and the government share the same view. I’ll do my best to watch later and not throw stuff at the telly when Teflon Boris turns up, as I find Chris Whitty’s body language is very telling.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> It doesn't feel like Sage and the government share the same view. I'll do my best to watch later and not throw stuff at the telly when Teflon Boris turns up, as I find Chris Whitty's body language is very telling.


I thought Whitty looked quite tired. I'm still rocking my mask and avoiding crowds.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> I thought Whitty looked quite tired. I'm still rocking my mask and avoiding crowds.


Me too. We're going to Cornwall next month and I'm actually dreading it - never thought I'd say that! - but we put it off for two years. I'm just hopinng that October will be quieter. Masks first in the bag, leaving very very early and hoping for rain.

Stay safe @Boxer123


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> Me too. We're going to Cornwall next month and I'm actually dreading it - never thought I'd say that! - but we put it off for two years. I'm just hopinng that October will be quieter. Masks first in the bag, leaving very very early and hoping for rain.
> 
> Stay safe @Boxer123


I hope that your dread is unfounded and you enjoy your holiday.

I'm not a happy bunny about the winter plan, I'm honestly really scared about this coming winter more than I was.


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> I thought Whitty looked quite tired. I'm still rocking my mask and avoiding crowds.


How are you managing being in schools? I must admit I'm so used to being around people without masks that it no longer bothers me.


----------



## MollySmith

Watching the news and I have to say, I am not sure about a different vaccine brand and I'd rather have not for profit AZ for a booster like my first.... but... rather other countries like Africa had a first vaccine. The booster seems a bit of a patch up, to me, because the masks etc are no longer lawful. 

This Autumn feels scary, it really does because it's going to be too hard to go backwards for most. The government won't admit they are wrong easily and too many anti-vaccers around too. My behaviour hasn't changed since before June, or much since the lockdowns. We're still keeping ourselves mostly inside and away from others but not sure how long I want to do that and the affect on my mental health but at least I have the ability to isolate.


----------



## Siskin

We had a zoom call with daughter and son in law to be this evening. He’s started a new job which requires him to travel more round the country on trains mainly. He said about 90% of people on the trains were wearing masks although he felt that there was much less mask wearing in Birmingham for some reason


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> We had a zoom call with daughter and son in law to be this evening. He's started a new job which requires him to travel more round the country on trains mainly. He said about 90% of people on the trains were wearing masks although he felt that there was much less mask wearing in Birmingham for some reason


Is this the son that won't be vaccinated?


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> Is this the son that won't be vaccinated?


No, this is daughters fiancé (son in law to be)

My son is the one who won't get vaccinated. He contacted us to say he thought they had Covid. We nagged him to at least to get tested which he didn't want to do as he thinks the tests are useless. He did so in the end and the tests were positive. Without wanting to wish him the worse, he seems to have had only a mild dose. Consequently all his anti vaxxer thoughts have been shown to be right


----------



## lorilu

I'm seeing a lot of people wearing their masks inside out lately. What new thing is this? Some new false information fad?


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> I'm seeing a lot of people wearing their masks inside out lately. What new thing is this? Some new false information fad?


They aren't round here.... went shopping the other day and very few younger people were wearing them, all us oldies were wearing them.


----------



## StormyThai

MollySmith said:


> My behaviour hasn't changed since before June, or much since the lockdowns. We're still keeping ourselves mostly inside and away from others


Same here...and I will probably continue to wear masks for a long while yet. I've not had a single cold for two years now.
Still not brave enough to visit my dad due to how slammed he has felt over the summer.

We talk about peoples mental health a lot due to the struggles of these lockdowns, no one seems to care about the MH of those that are struggling with things opening up and people not keeping their space!
*Not directed at anyone, just a general gripe...sorry


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> I wish they would bring back masks.


Yes: I am suddenly seeing fewer and fewer wearing them. If someone sits next to me without one, I get up and move away. I saw someone a couple of days back, and yes, she was wearing a mask, but took it off every time she coughed, which was frequently, and didn't even bother to turn away when she was coughing or cover her mouth with her hand.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Yes: I am suddenly seeing fewer and fewer wearing them. If someone sits next to me without one, I get up and move away. I saw someone a couple of days back, and yes, she was wearing a mask, but took it off every time she coughed, which was frequently, and didn't even bother to turn away when she was coughing or cover her mouth with her hand.


No one is wearing masks over here. I don't know how long it's going to be before we are asked to do so but I'm starting to get quite worried because the infection and death rates are going up quite considerably.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> No one is wearing masks over here. I don't know how long it's going to be before we are asked to do so but I'm starting to get quite worried because the infection and death rates are going up quite considerably.


It's all: ''Please yourself'' here. 
The buses still have signage (possibly now outdated but not yet removed, who knows?) telling you to keep 2 metres apart and to wear a mask; but then several people get on without masks. Some drivers ignore the fact, but others play a recorded message announcing to anyone interested (not many) that you are required to wear a mask when travelling on public transport. The maskless ones take not a blind bit of notice. Then you have the guy in the corner shop, notice on the door saying 'no admittance without face covering', but wearing none himself (no screen either). You sort of give up.


----------



## SbanR

What I've been seeing quite a bit of is people Removing their mask when holding a conversation


----------



## Gemmaa

It seems to be down to luck when people wear masks, within all age groups.
I only go into shops at about 7am, or occasionally 8ish on a Saturday. Some days no one wears one, other times everyone has one on.
We did have to go to Morrisons quickly on a Saturday afternoon, it was horrific and I did feel really panicky....I felt like fish food in a crowded tank. Yet Saturday morning seems to have the highest rate of mask use.

I keep seeing people cough, and they lift their hand near their mouth, but don't actually cover it, then just cough over their hand....why?? 

I've got to go to the dentist tomorrow, and have an eye test next week...both are necessary, and both are exactly the kind of close contact appointments I've been trying to avoid  but I guess it's better to get them out of the way now


----------



## Boxer123

Today is the last day care workers can get a vaccine to ensure full coverage before they lose their jobs. We could lose up to 70000 care workers 

Having worked as a care worker it is not easy to recruit this added with the added recruitment issues brexit has thrown up. Workers get paid a pittance for a very hard job. 

This will cause a crisis in homes. I understand the need for the jab but assume the residents have it plus an upcoming booster. 
What does everyone else think ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Boxer123 said:


> Today is the last day care workers can get a vaccine to ensure full coverage before they lose their jobs. We could lose up to 70000 care workers
> 
> Having worked as a care worker it is not easy to recruit this added with the added recruitment issues brexit has thrown up. Workers get paid a pittance for a very hard job.
> 
> This will cause a crisis in homes. I understand the need for the jab but assume the residents have it plus an upcoming booster.
> What does everyone else think ?


It's a tricky one.

My friend has an adult child in a residential assisted living care home.

Her daughter is fully vaccinated as is she (and I believe all the other residents) but she is still having to follow very strict protocols (including a box stating she is fully vaccinated) before being allowed to sit (gown, mask and gloved) and hold her daughter's hand for 30 minutes once a week.

No hugging, no kisses on the cheek since March 2020.

Yet staff are spending long shifts in close contact with her daughter (including full personal care). The staff eat and drink in the home's dining room, sometimes with residents and remove their masks to do so … I've seen them.

If they aren't fully vaccinated, they pose a real threat to the vulnerable residents.

They are, however, already short staffed I believe.

The situation isn't an easy fix.


----------



## Siskin

The thing about living in a care home is that you can’t escape and live elsewhere and have to be attended to by the carers vaccinated or not
That said, I wonder how the carers who have not been vaccinated felt when their elderly people were sent home from hospitals infected by Covid with the high likely hood of passing it onto them or anyone else in the home.
I’m all for freedom of choice, but surely the unvaccinated carers appreciate by now how infectious this disease is and the higher likelihood of them or anyone else they come in contact with of becoming seriously ill and dying. I know being vaccinated doesn’t preclude someone still getting Covid, but it is less likely to make you seriously ill. However in older people they are still at higher risk of dying even if vaccinated. Surely a duty of care comes into this.
Very difficult situation.
I would like to know if a study has been done in to how likely the vaccinated are to contract Covid as compared to the unvaccinated and if the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus then unvaccinated. I would have thought that if the vaccinated are getting a milder form of Covid then they would be shedding less virus particles, but I have no idea about this


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> Today is the last day care workers can get a vaccine to ensure full coverage before they lose their jobs. We could lose up to 70000 care workers
> 
> Having worked as a care worker it is not easy to recruit this added with the added recruitment issues brexit has thrown up. Workers get paid a pittance for a very hard job.
> 
> This will cause a crisis in homes. I understand the need for the jab but assume the residents have it plus an upcoming booster.
> What does everyone else think ?


I'm in two minds about mandatory vaccination.
I do think we're at a level where we don't need to force people, and doing so could put off the remainder.
However I don't know why if you're working in that sector you wouldn't believe in medical science and have it done.

It's been said that the vaccine doesn't reduce the viral load like they'd hoped (at least with the current dominant variant) so your ability to spread it is the same as an unvaccinated individual so coming from that angle being vaccinated is to protect yourself. 
It won't make a difference for those they're caring for but perhaps they need greater research on that or its being said to push people into having it! I've not done by own reading on that.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> The thing about living in a care home is that you can't escape and live elsewhere and have to be attended to by the carers vaccinated or not
> That said, I wonder how the carers who have not been vaccinated felt when their elderly people were sent home from hospitals infected by Covid with the high likely hood of passing it onto them or anyone else in the home.
> I'm all for freedom of choice, but surely the unvaccinated carers appreciate by now how infectious this disease is and the higher likelihood of them or anyone else they come in contact with of becoming seriously ill and dying. I know being vaccinated doesn't preclude someone still getting Covid, but it is less likely to make you seriously ill. However in older people they are still at higher risk of dying even if vaccinated. Surely a duty of care comes into this.
> Very difficult situation.
> I would like to know if a study has been done in to how likely the vaccinated are to contract Covid as compared to the unvaccinated and if the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus then unvaccinated. I would have thought that if the vaccinated are getting a milder form of Covid then they would be shedding less virus particles, but I have no idea about this


Admittedly this is from the US but it might give you an idea of the risks of becoming infected whether vaccinated or not.

https://publichealthinsider.com/202...cinated-people-compared-to-vaccinated-people/

*NEW DATA DASHBOARD TRACKS COVID-19 RISK FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE COMPARED TO VACCINATED PEOPLE*


----------



## Happy Paws2

I been watching the webcam for the Isle of Wright Red Funnel ferry, It's the islands festival this week-end so thousands of people are heading over there. I've been watching to see how many foot passengers are wearing masks, so far this morning I haven't seen one.


----------



## MilleD

Boxer123 said:


> Today is the last day care workers can get a vaccine to ensure full coverage before they lose their jobs. We could lose up to 70000 care workers
> 
> Having worked as a care worker it is not easy to recruit this added with the added recruitment issues brexit has thrown up. Workers get paid a pittance for a very hard job.
> 
> This will cause a crisis in homes. I understand the need for the jab but assume the residents have it plus an upcoming booster.
> What does everyone else think ?


I think the fact you can still contract and carry the virus even if you are fully vaccinated makes this decision a bit of a farce.

And just singling out care homes also seems a little odd. They got treated like a crap in the beginning and had covid riddled patients palmed off onto them by the NHS. Seems a bit unfair to now do this to them.

That said, I don't think many of the reasons anti-vaxxers use are valid in any shape or form. Just get the jab....


----------



## Boxer123

MilleD said:


> I think the fact you can still contract and carry the virus even if you are fully vaccinated makes this decision a bit of a farce.
> 
> And just singling out care homes also seems a little odd. They got treated like a crap in the beginning and had covid riddled patients palmed off onto them by the NHS. Seems a bit unfair to now do this to them.
> 
> That said, I don't think many of the reasons anti-vaxxers use are valid in any shape or form. Just get the jab....


I agree with this. Many of the workers will be young. A study on the vax is currently been undertaken on periods and the vaccine. 30000 women have reported side effects. A lot of younger people I know would simply like to wait before having it. I think it's a personal choice. Who does the government think will replace these people ?


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> Today is the last day care workers can get a vaccine to ensure full coverage before they lose their jobs. We could lose up to 70000 care workers
> 
> Having worked as a care worker it is not easy to recruit this added with the added recruitment issues brexit has thrown up. Workers get paid a pittance for a very hard job.
> 
> This will cause a crisis in homes. I understand the need for the jab but assume the residents have it plus an upcoming booster.
> What does everyone else think ?


This is a tough one. As someone who has lived in an assisted living place I know how short staffed they were, you had the regular carers, but they also used a lot of agency workers as well, so would the rule extend to agency?
Then there is the fact that jabs should be personal choice, no one should be forced to have an injection, that stepping into an area I would be very uncomfortable with. 
I am also aware just how easily illness spreads in these places, it was well known, one resident or one member of staff came down with something contagious, it wasn't a question of will it spread, but how quickly, I got sick every year I lived there multiple times each year due to the fact that the carers would come in when they themselves were sick (they weren't given much choice. want to be paid - come in) or because other residents were sick, the infection control was non existent (staff were rushing from one resident to the next and didn't wash their hands in between going from one person to the next, nor did they wear gloves or aprons). Hopefully infection control is much better these days.

As you can still catch and spread covid even with the jab it seems a bit silly to demand that all carers must be double jabbed, it's their body, their choice, if the jabs are as great as we are being told they are, surely for as long as the vulnerable (who can be jabbed) are jabbed, surely it is the individual carers choice if they want that protection for themselves?

However if it helps the residents and their families feel safer knowing the carers are double jabbed, if being jabbed does protect others, even if not fully but more so than not being jabbed, then I can see the need for this, but then it is going down a route that is taking away individual choice and freedom which I'm not sure I'm happy about.


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> Same here...and I will probably continue to wear masks for a long while yet. I've not had a single cold for two years now.
> Still not brave enough to visit my dad due to how slammed he has felt over the summer.
> 
> We talk about peoples mental health a lot due to the struggles of these lockdowns, no one seems to care about the MH of those that are struggling with things opening up and people not keeping their space!
> *Not directed at anyone, just a general gripe...sorry


You're so right. I agree. We aren't talking enough to about tolerance and respect of those. I'm genuinely anxious about travelling to West Country. Not my behaviour but others and especially in service stations. I've ordered some more fabric masks.


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> but then it is going down a route that is taking away individual choice and freedom which I'm not sure I'm happy about.


As long as I, or, my relative/friend also has the individual choice to refuse a carer who hasn't been double jabbed, then that's fine
If it's a case of take it or leave it, when you're already vulnerable, then surely that takes away their basic human right , to be cared for in a safe environment


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> As long as I, or, my relative/friend also has the individual choice to refuse a carer who hasn't been double jabbed, then that's fine
> If it's a case of take it or leave it, when you're already vulnerable, then surely that takes away their basic human right , to be cared for in a safe environment


But you can still spread it if you have had the jab. I understand why the young are reluctant. If there are not enough staff people are going to be more at risk, mistakes will be made.


----------



## mrs phas

Boxer123 said:


> But you can still spread it if you have had the jab. I understand why the young are reluctant. If there are not enough staff people are going to be more at risk, mistakes will be made.


I get and understand that 
But 
to my mind at least 
The _*needs*_ of the vulnerable, 
outweigh 
the _*choice*_ of the skeptical


----------



## Blackadder

> Vaccinated people infected with the Delta coronavirus variant may be able to spread it as easily as those who have yet to be immunised, early analysis suggests. Although the Covid jabs appears to reduce an individual's overall risk of catching Delta in the first place, if infected there appears to be "limited difference" in the viral load between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, according to new research from Public Health England (PHE).


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/delta-variant-vaccine-covid-uk-b1898190.html

It's early research but if true then to prevent unvaccinated carers from working in an already short staffed "industry" is pretty damaging, to say the least!


----------



## ForestWomble

mrs phas said:


> As long as I, or, my relative/friend also has the individual choice to refuse a carer who hasn't been double jabbed, then that's fine
> If it's a case of take it or leave it, when you're already vulnerable, then surely that takes away their basic human right , to be cared for in a safe environment


Again, that is a tough one, no one has more right than the other, the person being cared for has the right to feel safe, but the carer also has a right to not be forced into something they are not happy about. 
Also, What if a carer can't have the jab, what then? Are they forced to loose their job just because they are exempt from having it?


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> Again, that is a tough one, no one has more right than the other, the person being cared for has the right to feel safe, but the carer also has a right to not be forced into something they are not happy about.
> Also, What if a carer can't have the jab, what then? Are they forced to loose their job just because they are exempt from having it?


Whether it's choice or can't, the person being cared for, should have the right of refusal 
There will be plenty that have had the double jab 
I certainly wouldn't have someone look after my family/friends/myself who hadn't had polio vaccination, or MMR, or whooping cough, why would I allow and invite into my home, someone who hasn't been double jabbed?
If one is paying for care, which we all do in one form or another, whether before, during or after, then one should have the right to choose, whether that is in your own home or in a care home


----------



## Siskin

Anyone watching Help on channel 4? It’s a drama set in a care home at the start of the pandemic approaching lockdown in March. Starring Jodie Comer and Stephen Graham. It’s shaping up to be very good


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> Anyone watching Help on channel 4? It's a drama set in a care home at the start of the pandemic approaching lockdown in March. Starring Jodie Comer and Stephen Graham. It's shaping up to be very good


Have it on record for tomorrow


----------



## ForestWomble

mrs phas said:


> Whether it's choice or can't, the person being cared for, should have the right of refusal
> There will be plenty that have had the double jab
> I certainly wouldn't have someone look after my family/friends/myself who hadn't had polio vaccination, or MMR, or whooping cough, why would I allow and invite into my home, someone who hasn't been double jabbed?
> If one is paying for care, which we all do in one form or another, whether before, during or after, then one should have the right to choose, whether that is in your own home or in a care home


Of course they should.

I was looking at it from being in a support home / care home setting, in a support/care home setting of course you have the right to refuse someone, but that can mean you don't get the care ........ happened plenty of times to me.

If you are paying for someone to come to your own home, then again you have the right to refuse someone, but again, that might mean you don't get the care, I don't know how paying someone to come to your own home works, if you get more choice and you get the same person more then it'd be far easier to have more choice.


----------



## mrs phas

ForestWomble said:


> Of course they should.
> 
> I was looking at it from being in a support home / care home setting, in a support/care home setting of course you have the right to refuse someone, but that can mean you don't get the care ........ happened plenty of times to me.
> 
> If you are paying for someone to come to your own home, then again you have the right to refuse someone, but again, that might mean you don't get the care, I don't know how paying someone to come to your own home works, if you get more choice and you get the same person more then it'd be far easier to have more choice.


This is the whole point I'm getting at 
By withholding your care, because of your choice, they are subjugating a basic human right.
The right to live free from pain and fear

This must not be allowed to happen to the most vulnerable in our society, let alone anyone else


----------



## Boxer123

mrs phas said:


> Whether it's choice or can't, the person being cared for, should have the right of refusal
> There will be plenty that have had the double jab
> I certainly wouldn't have someone look after my family/friends/myself who hadn't had polio vaccination, or MMR, or whooping cough, why would I allow and invite into my home, someone who hasn't been double jabbed?
> If one is paying for care, which we all do in one form or another, whether before, during or after, then one should have the right to choose, whether that is in your own home or in a care home


Of course they should but it may be the choice of care from someone not vaccinated or no care at all. There are not plenty of workers. Care workers are paid a pittance, they work long hours. Why stay in a job that mandates what you have to do with your body when you can earn more elsewhere? If the government paid people more and gave more incentives it would be less of an issue.

I completely agree people should be safe but that doesn't answer the question of the 70000 care workers we stand to lose how do we replace them? Why have only care workers been singled out not all NHS staff ?


----------



## Guest

I see Northern Ireland has put in two requests for help from the army due to hospitals being over stretched and Scotland may put a request in as well.


----------



## Cully

We either have staff choosing not to be vaccinated and leaving, which creates a very depleted work force and inevitable poorer care for the vulnerable care users. OR staff begrudgingly being vaccinated which creates a hostile group of carers and potential poorer care given. 
OR patients refusing the care of unvaccinated staff which results in difficult staff management with shortages of useable available carers, with potential decline in care given.
The end result is the same whichever way you look at it. Overworked poorly paid staff with more 'patients' than they can provide proper care for. And an already vulnerable group of people suffering through neglect, fear and a very limited voice in all of this mayhem.
I've always been adamant that I never wanted to go into a care home. Now I absolutely live in fear and have nightmares about it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> We either have staff choosing not to be vaccinated and leaving, which creates a very depleted work force and inevitable poorer care for the vulnerable care users. OR staff begrudgingly being vaccinated which creates a hostile group of carers and potential poorer care given.
> OR patients refusing the care of unvaccinated staff which results in difficult staff management with shortages of useable available carers, with potential decline in care given.
> The end result is the same whichever way you look at it. Overworked poorly paid staff with more 'patients' than they can provide proper care for. And an already vulnerable group of people suffering through neglect, fear and a very limited voice in all of this mayhem.
> I've always been adamant that I never wanted to go into a care home. Now I absolutely live in fear and have nightmares about it.


France, Greece and Italy have made it mandatory for all health workers to be vaccinated.

https://www.france24.com/en/france/...3-000-unvaccinated-health-workers-without-pay

*France suspends 3,000 unvaccinated health workers without pay*

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1167085/mandatory-vaccines-will-be-applied-in-full-as-deadline-looms/

*Mandatory vaccines will be 'applied in full' as deadline looms*

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ovid-19-health-pass-mandatory-for-all-workers

*Italian government makes Covid-19 health pass mandatory for all workers*

And an interesting article from the BMJ on the subject.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1797


----------



## ForestWomble

mrs phas said:


> This is the whole point I'm getting at
> By withholding your care, because of your choice, they are subjugating a basic human right.
> The right to live free from pain and fear
> 
> This must not be allowed to happen to the most vulnerable in our society, let alone anyone else


I'm not disagreeing with you, but trying to explain why that could, sadly, not be a choice going by my own experiences.
@Boxer123 explains it in the quote below far better than I have, or could.



Boxer123 said:


> Of course they should but it may be the choice of care from someone not vaccinated or no care at all. There are not plenty of workers. Care workers are paid a pittance, they work long hours. Why stay in a job that mandates what you have to do with your body when you can earn more elsewhere? If the government paid people more and gave more incentives it would be less of an issue.
> 
> I completely agree people should be safe but that doesn't answer the question of the 70000 care workers we stand to lose how do we replace them? Why have only care workers been singled out not all NHS staff ?


Very well explained, better than my bumbling attempt.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> We either have staff choosing not to be vaccinated and leaving, which creates a very depleted work force and inevitable poorer care for the vulnerable care users. OR staff begrudgingly being vaccinated which creates a hostile group of carers and potential poorer care given.
> OR patients refusing the care of unvaccinated staff which results in difficult staff management with shortages of useable available carers, with potential decline in care given.
> The end result is the same whichever way you look at it. Overworked poorly paid staff with more 'patients' than they can provide proper care for. And an already vulnerable group of people suffering through neglect, fear and a very limited voice in all of this mayhem.
> I've always been adamant that I never wanted to go into a care home. Now I absolutely live in fear and have nightmares about it.


I am sorry to hear that you have nightmares etc. It is a disgrace that we have to live in fear of ending up somewhere that is supposed to help us when we need it.

Having lived where I did I am determined to never need to go back to somewhere like that, I dread getting older and potentially needing to move into a care home.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> I'm in two minds about mandatory vaccination.


 I also read that twelve-year-olds _will be able to decide for themselves_ and, if necessary, override their parents' wishes. So if parents are anti-vaxxers or pro-vaxxers, the child can still make their own decision. That should be interesting!


----------



## Gemmaa

Calvine said:


> I also read that twelve-year-olds _will be able to decide for themselves_ and, if necessary, override their parents' wishes. So if parents are anti-vaxxers or pro-vaxxers, the child can still make their own decision. That should be interesting!


I would have had it done just for the arm ache...could probably get out of P.E for at least a week


----------



## Guest

Magyarmum said:


> France, Greece and Italy have made it mandatory for all health workers to be vaccinated.
> 
> https://www.france24.com/en/france/...3-000-unvaccinated-health-workers-without-pay
> 
> *France suspends 3,000 unvaccinated health workers without pay*
> 
> https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1167085/mandatory-vaccines-will-be-applied-in-full-as-deadline-looms/
> 
> *Mandatory vaccines will be 'applied in full' as deadline looms*
> 
> https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ovid-19-health-pass-mandatory-for-all-workers
> 
> *Italian government makes Covid-19 health pass mandatory for all workers*
> 
> And an interesting article from the BMJ on the subject.
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1797


In the Netherlands the night life is pretty much still closed. So the Dutch clubbers took to the streets and protested by having a party across the Netherlands. I love the video in the news article but dread to think of how many people caught Covid because they done this.
*Clubbers call for nightlife to be reopened at demos across NL*
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/09/clubbers-call-for-nightlife-to-be-reopened-at-demos-across-nl/


----------



## ForestWomble

Gemmaa said:


> I would have had it done just for the arm ache...could probably get out of P.E for at least a week


LOL unless you had my sports teacher, I remember we told that straight after lunch break we were to line up outside matrons office, have the meningitis C(? think it was) injection, then straight round to our sports class, no getting out of it, moving etc would help the vaccine move etc apparently.


----------



## Magyarmum

oldeecatowner said:


> In the Netherlands the night life is pretty much still closed. So the Dutch clubbers took to the streets and protested by having a party across the Netherlands. I love the video in the news article but dread to think of how many people caught Covid because they done this.
> *Clubbers call for nightlife to be reopened at demos across NL*
> https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/09/clubbers-call-for-nightlife-to-be-reopened-at-demos-across-nl/


I live in Hungary and life here is back to normal. No one wears a mask unless they are going to the doctor or hospital. Our restaurants, bars, night clubs and casinos have been open since the beginning of August.

The infection rate is just beginning to creep up again and we have been warned to expect a fourth wave with restrictions to follow.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> Now I absolutely live in fear and have nightmares about it


I can't think of anything worse either!


----------



## Gemmaa

ForestWomble said:


> LOL unless you had my sports teacher, I remember we told that straight after lunch break we were to line up outside matrons office, have the meningitis C(? think it was) injection, then straight round to our sports class, no getting out of it, moving etc would help the vaccine move etc apparently.


Ah what a beast! The vaccines were the highlights of my school career! :Hilarious


----------



## rona

I think I may start slowly getting a stock of Flour, Pasta, tinned goods and loo rolls long before xmas!!

Might stock up from the butcher too


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I think I may start slowly getting a stock of Flour, Pasta, tinned goods and loo rolls long before xmas!!
> 
> Might stock up from the butcher too


We're stocking up on dog food.
Will start the tins, lol rolls etc too. Worth starting now rather then leaving it to the rush and then emptying shelves for those who can't afford to stock up easily


----------



## LinznMilly

I don't think I've participated much in this thread for about a year, since the last Covid scare in my family.

Since then, dad and my stepmum have both had it. Now my bro's best friend, who spends pretty much all week over theirs, has tested positive. Bro took a test a few days ago and apparently tested negative, but says he's lost his sense of taste, although he hasn't eaten yet today (because he knew he was going to go straight down and get a test). He's had a PCR test done and is waiting for the results. 

It's ironic. We sailed through last year. Now we're all double jabbed and it feels like it's closing in on us. 

I was just starting a coffee when he phoned, so I'm giving that half an hour before doing a Rapid Flow test.


----------



## Magyarmum

I was talking to my DIL yesterday who's a carer in a residential home for autistic adults. She was telling me that apart from being short staffed, half the staff who are working are unvaccinated.


----------



## Calvine

Falls on Tube escalators rise as users fear catching Covid if they hold onto hand rails | Evening Standard

Have read this a few times ^^^^^. I was on a bus last week and a woman got on, (mask covered mouth only) and decided to stand and hence hold a handrail. She then produced a newspaper and began ripping it to shreds to wrap round the handrail before she held it - I couldn't help thinking a pair of latex gloves would have been easier. By the time she had managed to wrap the bits of newspaper round the rail it was time for her to get off.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Or a tube of hand gel to use as soon as you get off the bus or off the escalator?


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Or a tube of hand gel to use as soon as you get off the bus or off the escalator?


People don't seem to be using it now. I still use it after I've touched anything outside and wash my hands the instant I'm home


----------



## LinznMilly

rona said:


> People don't seem to be using it now. I still use it after I've touched anything outside and wash my hands the instant I'm home


I don't use hand gel because of the eczema on my hands, but I wash my hands with my antimicrobial cream before and after going out. Fairly sure my mum has a tub in her car, and I put it on before I get out, and when I return.


----------



## Magyarmum

LinznMilly said:


> I don't use hand gel because of the eczema on my hands, but I wash my hands with my antimicrobial cream before and after going out. Fairly sure my mum has a tub in her car, and I put it on before I get out, and when I return.


I have an antimicrobial cream which I rub on my hands before leaving home, Also a spray which can be used on clothes etc. They're supposed to be effective for up to 5 hours. I keep a 100% alcohol spray in the boot of my car to use on trolley handles, car keys or anything else I wish to sanitise.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I carry a hand sanitiser with me at all times, I put it on before I go in a shop a wipe the handle bars of my scooter and again when I come out, then wash my hands when I get home.

OH half, wipes the handle bars of shopping trollies.

We both still wear masks in shops.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> People don't seem to be using it now. I still use it after I've touched anything outside and wash my hands the instant I'm home


I've noticed many places don't have it at the door anymore (or the container is empty ) but I like to use it as I enter for the benefit of others … and again, my own on leaving, particularly for my own benefit.

I'm an old Girl Guide, so always prepared!


----------



## kimthecat

It feels like I am still isolating due to the petrol crises.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> We're stocking up on dog food.
> Will start the tins, lol rolls etc too. Worth starting now rather then leaving it to the rush and then emptying shelves for those who can't afford to stock up easily


I went in town shopping the other day (Im lucky if I go in once a month TBH...not covid related,just hate people!LOL) and I was surprised at how little difference there was to normal. Everything fully stocked and no shelf gaps at all. Not too many still wearing masks though. I always wear mine if a place states it would rather you did.
Not worried about xmas either, Ive completely avoided it in the past when I had crappy workshifts so whatever happens Im not bothered.

I was happy to realiese the other day that my hair has started to feel back to normal. Half of it fell out after I had covid and I really didnt have a huge amount to start with! Only took about a year and a half! LOL


----------



## Siskin

Odd how it goes with hair. I started losing loads last summer into autumn. I usually do moult then, but this was noticeably more. I have quite thick hair so it wasn’t a big deal, but it just went on and on. I spoke to my hairdresser about so she could check for regrowth, she thought it was likely due to the anaemia I had. I thought it might have been due to the shock from the major operation.
This year I’m losing more then average again at the moment, bloods are fine, but I did have another major op, so maybe it is something to do with that


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> It feels like I am still isolating due to the petrol crises.


My son describes himself as ''housebound'' which I thought was a trifle dramatic!


----------



## Arny

catz4m8z said:


> Everything fully stocked and no shelf gaps at all.


Pasta is a bit lacking here. Don't know if people started stocking up with fuel thing or someone also mentioned the durum wheat harvest wasn't good.


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> We're stocking up on dog food.
> Will start the tins, lol rolls etc too. Worth starting now rather then leaving it to the rush and then emptying shelves for those who can't afford to stock up easily


I read that the ''average family'' (whoever that is - certainly not us) is spending *£2000 *stockpiling Christmas food. My place is really big with a huge kitchen but I don't think I could find space for that much. 
But I was talking to someone (not recently) who said they had to move their vegetables *from the garage* as the rats were after them (well, who'd have thought it?) Apparently they (the rats) weren't actually eating them but moving them from one side of the garage to the other. Every night. I'd love to set up a camera and watch that.


----------



## lullabydream

Calvine said:


> I'd love to set up a camera and watch that


Me too!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Calvine said:


> My son describes himself as ''housebound'' which I thought was a trifle dramatic!


Oooh, trifle 

That's one of three things I am really looking forward to about Christmas Day - parkrun, not going to work and sherry trifle


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH has just gone off it have his Booster jab...


----------



## kimthecat

@Happy Paws2 That's good Not been offered a booster yet.

is anyone having the flu jab? I dont normally bother but perhaps I will do if offered.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> @Happy Paws2 That's good Not been offered a booster yet.
> 
> is anyone having the flu jab? I dont normally bother but perhaps I will do if offered.


Have flu jab Monday coming and booster two weeks later 
Does anyone know are they're giving you the same in booster as you had originally?
I had AZ originally but only heard of Pfizer and Modena being offered for booster


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> @Happy Paws2 That's good Not been offered a booster yet.
> 
> is anyone having the flu jab? I dont normally bother but perhaps I will do if offered.


Definitely I hear it will be super flu this year.


----------



## Siskin

We had our flu jabs on Wednesday, just booked my Covid booster for next Tuesday


----------



## 3dogs2cats

mrs phas said:


> Have flu jab Monday coming and booster two weeks later
> Does anyone know are they're giving you the same in booster as you had originally?
> I had AZ originally but only heard of Pfizer and Modena being offered for booster


The NHS website says most people will be given offered Pfizer or Modena unless they are unable to have either of those in which case they will be given AZ. I expect those that are housebound like my mum will receive AZ.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> @Happy Paws2 That's good Not been offered a booster yet.
> 
> is anyone having the flu jab? I dont normally bother but perhaps I will do if offered.


I think it's a good idea to have the flu jab, especially now. Apart from reducing the risk of you catching it, you could pass it on to someone vulnerable. It all helps to keep hospital beds free.


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> @Happy Paws2 That's good Not been offered a booster yet.
> 
> is anyone having the flu jab? I dont normally bother but perhaps I will do if offered.


We both had ours this morning at Boots


----------



## lorilu

The mask issue has become so volatile in the US I refuse to try to enforce it in my work place. I don't say a word, just get them taken care of and out of the building as fast as possible. I think I already mentioned the guy who went on a verbal rampage when I asked him to put on a mask, after the policy was first reinstated. I went to get a supervisor but when we came back he had left.

The other day I had a customer come in to pay her water bill with lots of small bills every which way so it took ages to count it out. She was blatantly coughing and hacking, no mask. (I have a plexiglass between myself and customers now) It was so obvious to me she was doing it on purpose, just waiting for me to tell her to put on a mask. I refused to take the bait, and simply went out and sanitized my window area after she left, and we sprayed down all her cash too.


----------



## rona

It's quite amusing if you are in the swimming pool, get your breathing wrong and then have a little splutter...........everyone gives you plenty of room


----------



## HarlequinCat

A friend of my OHs went into cex to sell his xbox, and got a tickle in his throat. The type of tickle that makes your eyes water when you try to control the cough. He said he felt so embarrased because all the customers left the shop and the person serving him looked like she didnt want to be there. And it takes a while when you are selling to cex, but he couldnt just leave his stuff there while he went outside.


----------



## O2.0

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but my feeling at this point is we're going to have to figure out how to live with Covid. It's not going away. 

Vaccines work. People need to get vaccinated. 

We need to look at therapies that work. Monoclonal antibodies are effective, but this treatment is not offered to everyone (at least not here) you have to be "approved" for treatment. 

We need to study other treatments. Ivermectin gets a bad rap because people are being stupid about it. Yes, it's a horse dewormer and I give it to my dogs for heartworm, but it's also a legitimate human drug used in tropical regions for things like dengue fever - which is a viral disease. Whether it works because ivermectin kills the mosquitos or because it also prevents the virus from replicating, we don't know and it needs to be studied. 
What other already known to be safe medications are out there that we can look at? 

Vitamin D. Over and over studies have shown that those who do not do well with covid are vitamin D deficient. What happened to encouraging people to take vitamin D? It's cheap, easy, and safe. 

Preventing the spread isn't going to work. We've shown that. People aren't going to be responsible sadly. The next best thing is to make available the best ways to avoid infection and treat infection if it can't be avoided. But we can't keep this up....


----------



## Magyarmum

3dogs2cats said:


> The NHS website says most people will be given offered Pfizer or Modena unless they are unable to have either of those in which case they will be given AZ. I expect those that are housebound like my mum will receive AZ.


In Hungary I was offered either the Pfizer or Moderna jab for my booster. Due to my age the doctor recommended I have the Pfizer vaccine. My previous two jabs were both the Sinopharm vaccine.


----------



## HarlequinCat

O2.0 said:


> This probably won't be a popular opinion, but my feeling at this point is we're going to have to figure out how to live with Covid. It's not going away.
> 
> Vaccines work. People need to get vaccinated.
> 
> We need to look at therapies that work. Monoclonal antibodies are effective, but this treatment is not offered to everyone (at least not here) you have to be "approved" for treatment.
> 
> We need to study other treatments. Ivermectin gets a bad rap because people are being stupid about it. Yes, it's a horse dewormer and I give it to my dogs for heartworm, but it's also a legitimate human drug used in tropical regions for things like dengue fever - which is a viral disease. Whether it works because ivermectin kills the mosquitos or because it also prevents the virus from replicating, we don't know and it needs to be studied.
> What other already known to be safe medications are out there that we can look at?
> 
> Vitamin D. Over and over studies have shown that those who do not do well with covid are vitamin D deficient. What happened to encouraging people to take vitamin D? It's cheap, easy, and safe.
> 
> Preventing the spread isn't going to work. We've shown that. People aren't going to be responsible sadly. The next best thing is to make available the best ways to avoid infection and treat infection if it can't be avoided. But we can't keep this up....


I do agree with this in a way, one of the scientists with astra zeneca has said that covid will not be going away and in time it will become no worse than a typical cold


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> This probably won't be a popular opinion, but my feeling at this point is we're going to have to figure out how to live with Covid. It's not going away.
> 
> Vaccines work. People need to get vaccinated.
> 
> We need to look at therapies that work. Monoclonal antibodies are effective, but this treatment is not offered to everyone (at least not here) you have to be "approved" for treatment.
> 
> We need to study other treatments. Ivermectin gets a bad rap because people are being stupid about it. Yes, it's a horse dewormer and I give it to my dogs for heartworm, but it's also a legitimate human drug used in tropical regions for things like dengue fever - which is a viral disease. Whether it works because ivermectin kills the mosquitos or because it also prevents the virus from replicating, we don't know and it needs to be studied.
> What other already known to be safe medications are out there that we can look at?
> 
> Vitamin D. Over and over studies have shown that those who do not do well with covid are vitamin D deficient. What happened to encouraging people to take vitamin D? It's cheap, easy, and safe.
> 
> Preventing the spread isn't going to work. We've shown that. People aren't going to be responsible sadly. The next best thing is to make available the best ways to avoid infection and treat infection if it can't be avoided. But we can't keep this up....


It has never even crossed my mind that we'll eradicate Covid entirely. I've always assumed we will end up having to have a yearly vaccine the way we do with flu.

I've had Dengue, fortunately only mildly when I lived on one of the Comores group of islands where it is endemic.. I don't recommend it to anyone


----------



## 3dogs2cats

O2.0 said:


> This probably won't be a popular opinion, but my feeling at this point is we're going to have to figure out how to live with Covid. It's not going away.
> 
> Vaccines work. People need to get vaccinated.
> 
> We need to look at therapies that work. Monoclonal antibodies are effective, but this treatment is not offered to everyone (at least not here) you have to be "approved" for treatment.
> 
> We need to study other treatments. Ivermectin gets a bad rap because people are being stupid about it. Yes, it's a horse dewormer and I give it to my dogs for heartworm, but it's also a legitimate human drug used in tropical regions for things like dengue fever - which is a viral disease. Whether it works because ivermectin kills the mosquitos or because it also prevents the virus from replicating, we don't know and it needs to be studied.
> What other already known to be safe medications are out there that we can look at?
> 
> Vitamin D. Over and over studies have shown that those who do not do well with covid are vitamin D deficient. What happened to encouraging people to take vitamin D? It's cheap, easy, and safe.
> 
> Preventing the spread isn't going to work. We've shown that. People aren't going to be responsible sadly. The next best thing is to make available the best ways to avoid infection and treat infection if it can't be avoided. But we can't keep this up....


In England we are just living with it now, no social distancing is required, theatres, cinemas etc are operating as normal. Some business are choosing to implement restrictions, my vets for instance still don`t allow anyone in the building but overall I think most people are just getting on with their life in the normal manner. We do still have to isolate if we test positive but I think this will probably no longer be required in the near future.


----------



## SbanR

I had my flu jab on 27 September and the booster yesterday. Left with my little card giving Pfizer batch details
Jab didn't hurt. The flu jab was worse as the chemist did it too high:Arghh


----------



## Lurcherlad

The pharmacist who gave our flu jabs today advised taking Vit C, D and Zinc to boost the immune system, so I’ve stocked up.

Can’t do any harm.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> The pharmacist who gave our flu jabs today advised taking Vit C, D and Zinc to boost the immune system, so I've stocked up.
> 
> Can't do any harm.


I've taken them since the start of the pandemic little extra defense.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I've been having sambucol extra defense, the pharmacist recommended it, he gives it to his family every winter even before the pandemic.
It tastes nice too, it's in liquid form


----------



## Siskin

I’ve been taking vitamin D all the time since lockdown 2020, only took them during the winter months before. Now will also add vit C and zinc now, as you say, can’t hurt.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

HarlequinCat said:


> I've been having sambucol extra defense, the pharmacist recommended it, he gives it to his family every winter even before the pandemic.
> It tastes nice too, it's in liquid form


My sister swears by this but its fairly expensive isnt it?


----------



## HarlequinCat

3dogs2cats said:


> My sister swears by this but its fairly expensive isnt it?


It can be. We tend to stock up when it's on offer at Holland and Barrett . Usually it's 11 a bottle and lasts a couple of weeks. I try and get them when it's basically buy one get one free etc. Then use it in the months when the sunlight is weaker


----------



## catz4m8z

Just tried to book my covid/flu jab through work and it wont let me access the website unless I confirm an activation code sent to my mobile phone....which I dont own!:Bored
Just great.:Shifty Looks like I might have to go through my GP as I apparently dont exist without a mobile phone.


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> Just tried to book my covid/flu jab through work and it wont let me access the website unless I confirm an activation code sent to my mobile phone....which I dont own!:Bored
> Just great.:Shifty Looks like I might have to go through my GP as I apparently dont exist without a mobile phone.


Not necessarily you can still get text messages sent to your phone, codes usually come in text message form. Use your house number as phone number


----------



## margy

I had my booster on Thursday. The 2 earlier vaccines were AZ the booster I received was Pfizer. I don't feel ill but the area I was injected has a red lump, feels hot and itches. It hurts when I lie on it in bed. Never had any problems with the other vaccine.Has anyone else reacted to it? I'm still waiting to be called in for the flu jab.


----------



## Siskin

margy said:


> I had my booster on Thursday. The 2 earlier vaccines were AZ the booster I received was Pfizer. I don't feel ill but the area I was injected has a red lump, feels hot and itches. It hurts when I lie on it in bed. Never had any problems with the other vaccine.Has anyone else reacted to it? I'm still waiting to be called in for the flu jab.


I'll report back to you, having my booster tomorrow and am expecting it to be Pfizer as I had AZ first time round


----------



## Magyarmum

margy said:


> I had my booster on Thursday. The 2 earlier vaccines were AZ the booster I received was Pfizer. I don't feel ill but the area I was injected has a red lump, feels hot and itches. It hurts when I lie on it in bed. Never had any problems with the other vaccine.Has anyone else reacted to it? I'm still waiting to be called in for the flu jab.


I had my booster about a month ago which was Pfizer. My previous two were Sinopharm for which I had no reaction whatsoever. With the Pfizer jab like you. my arm felt hot and itchy, but not red or any lump. No headache and didn't feel ill but the itchiness and it feeling hot persisted for about a week


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Just tried to book my covid/flu jab through work and it wont let me access the website unless I confirm an activation code sent to my mobile phone....which I dont own!:Bored
> Just great.:Shifty Looks like I might have to go through my GP as I apparently dont exist without a mobile phone.


 Can't something be sent to an email address? Or do they assume that without a phone you are likely too primitive to have an email facility?


----------



## SbanR

margy said:


> I had my booster on Thursday. The 2 earlier vaccines were AZ the booster I received was Pfizer. I don't feel ill but the area I was injected has a red lump, feels hot and itches. It hurts when I lie on it in bed. Never had any problems with the other vaccine.Has anyone else reacted to it? I'm still waiting to be called in for the flu jab.


I posted several days ago. Like you, had my booster on Thursday. AZ for initial course, Pfizer for booster.
No reaction apart from a slight ache whenever I moved my arm; this lasted 48 hours. Of


----------



## margy

SbanR said:


> I posted several days ago. Like you, had my booster on Thursday. AZ for initial course, Pfizer for booster.
> No reaction apart from a slight ache whenever I moved my arm; this lasted 48 hours. Of


Sorry I didn't see that, it's been 4 days and it's still hot and itchy if it lasts longer than a week I'll ring my surgery.


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> We both had ours this morning at Boots


Did you have to book it or just turn up. ?


----------



## Siskin

I thought it was tomorrow I would have the booster but it’s next tuesday


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> Did you have to book it or just turn up. ?


Booked it online at Boots

As we are over 60 we didn't have to pay, though happy to. Paid £12 before.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Did you have to book it or just turn up. ?


Depends how busy they are because last year I just turned up and they could fit me in. Much prefer Boots to be honest, far better than my doctors surgery procedures


----------



## lorilu

lullabydream said:


> Not necessarily you can still get text messages sent to your phone, codes usually come in text message form. Use your house number as phone number


How would a text be sent to a land line? I've had people say "didn't you get my text?" only for me to point out to them that I have a land line so no, I didn't get the text.


----------



## lullabydream

lorilu said:


> How would a text be sent to a land line? I've had people say "didn't you get my text?" only for me to point out to them that I have a land line so no, I didn't get the text.


In the UK you get thr message by electronic voice. It tells you when you answer the phone

Had a few people text land-line instead of mobile usually when they have a new phone.


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> How would a text be sent to a land line? I've had people say "didn't you get my text?" only for me to point out to them that I have a land line so no, I didn't get the text.


That's why I never give anyone my Mobil no. it's just a emergency calls when I'm out, otherwise I'm just landline and that's the only number I give, so I can't get tests either if they want to contact me they'll have to phone me.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

My Pfizer first dose injection site was painful for three weeks, second nothing at all, I shall see what my booster brings!

I'm very glad to actually have some concrete numbers now to discuss with women regarding vaccination. I'm just popping it here in case any of you have pregnant friends/family that aren't aware:


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> My Pfizer first dose injection site was painful for three weeks, second nothing at all, I shall see what my booster brings!
> 
> I'm very glad to actually have some concrete numbers now to discuss with women regarding vaccination. I'm just popping it here in case any of you have pregnant friends/family that aren't aware:
> 
> View attachment 477980


I was reading about this yesterday, so awful when there are two lives involved. I wonder whether long Covid would affect babies in the womb


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I was reading about this yesterday, so awful when there are two lives involved. I wonder whether long Covid would affect babies in the womb


I agree it was awful to read.

There is actually someone on YouTube who had to give birth on Christmas Eve I think and then put in an induced coma. She pulled through, with guts and determination she got to go home to her partner and child but is still struggling.


----------



## Siskin

We have been asked several times not to bring politics into this thread


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> We have been asked several times not to bring politics into this thread


Thanks - I had forgotten. I have edited and tagged a mod so they can decide. I think it still relevant or of interest but appreciate your reminder


----------



## kimthecat

I think it was a lose lose situation. Lockdown ealier could have saved lives and then people saying lockdown caused job losses and suicides.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I think it was a lose lose situation. Lockdown ealier could have saved lives and then people saying lockdown caused job losses and suicides.


It's very easy to look back on something and pick out things that were not done. Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I went to my old stomping grounds of SW London outskirts on Friday night...jeepers. I had to go to Sainsbury's when I got there and I was stunned at how few people were wearing a mask. The numbers in the shops down here by the coast who are still wearing masks is definitely reducing but it's higher than it seemed to be there. 

Every day I read the stats of the numbers of new infections and deaths and I just don't know how it can still be happening. Then I look at behaviours and I speak to people declining vaccination and I guess I know why...


----------



## lorilu

Happy Paws2 said:


> That's why I never give anyone my Mobil no. it's just a emergency calls when I'm out, otherwise I'm just landline and that's the only number I give, so I can't get tests either if they want to contact me they'll have to phone me.


If they want to contact me they have to e mail me lol. I don't answer my phone ever. That's what the answering machine is for. Unless it's an emergency though I'm probably not going to call back. I'll e mail though. .


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I think it was a lose lose situation. Lockdown ealier could have saved lives and then people saying lockdown caused job losses and suicides.


Without wishing to get too political, the report does go into this including lack of SSP and the government not raising this to a level that enabled choice is mentioned in the link. A early lockdown could well have prevented later lockdowns. Even the EFL (English Football League) locked down earlier, putting low league clubs at risk.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I went to my old stomping grounds of SW London outskirts on Friday night...jeepers. I had to go to Sainsbury's when I got there and I was stunned at how few people were wearing a mask. The numbers in the shops down here by the coast who are still wearing masks is definitely reducing but it's higher than it seemed to be there.
> 
> Every day I read the stats of the numbers of new infections and deaths and I just don't know how it can still be happening. Then I look at behaviours and I speak to people declining vaccination and I guess I know why...


I noticed that on my travels. In Cambridge lots of folk wear them though I noticed a number not today on our weekly shop. Less in Cornwall though we always wore ours. I felt a few 'looks' which I don't get here.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I went to my old stomping grounds of SW London outskirts on Friday night...jeepers. I had to go to Sainsbury's when I got there and I was stunned at how few people were wearing a mask. The numbers in the shops down here by the coast who are still wearing masks is definitely reducing but it's higher than it seemed to be there.
> 
> Every day I read the stats of the numbers of new infections and deaths and I just don't know how it can still be happening. Then I look at behaviours and I speak to people declining vaccination and I guess I know why...


I haven't been into any shops, but those that have report that most people are wearing masks. The rate here is very low as it is throughout Gloucestershire which could be due to most wearing masks.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just read this...

The NHS has suspended Covid testing at a laboratory in Wolverhampton amid fears up to 43,000 people were given the wrong result
Earlier, a mass testing site in Berkshire asked people who recently got a negative result to book another test
It just goes from bad to bad...


----------



## StormyThai

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just read this...
> 
> The NHS has suspended Covid testing at a laboratory in Wolverhampton amid fears up to 43,000 people were given the wrong result
> Earlier, a mass testing site in Berkshire asked people who recently got a negative result to book another test
> It just goes from bad to bad...


Is that due to the investigation about people that were testing positive on LF tests had symptoms but still got a negative PCR test? Or is this another thing?

Having heard about an employers way of dealing with staff and testing it's no wonder that our area is having massive outbreaks...Employee presents with symptoms gets sent for tests...all good there, except that same employee is made to go back to work until they get a positive result...perfect way for a virus to spread amongst strangers that are completely unaware that someone could be contagious.
The amount of employers that expect/demand that their employees work even when they are sick with a virus is disgusting IMHO - honestly so glad I got out of retail and started to work for myself before this all kicked off!


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> In the UK you get thr message by electronic voice. It tells you when you answer the phone
> 
> Had a few people text land-line instead of mobile usually when they have a new phone.


 I posted ages ago (petty things that annoy you) saying I was fed up of my friend texting my landline as she knows I have mobiles . . . also at the time, BT charged to retrieve the message. People on here thought it was odd that I preferred her to text my mobiles. I am out a lot and don't check my landline for days on end. In her case she obviously just looked up the wrong number.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> It's very easy to look back on something and pick out things that were not done. Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing


To a point I agree, but it's clear from the report that repeated errors where made and advice ignored which could have saved lives. I recommend reading it.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> To a point I agree, but it's clear from the report that repeated errors where made and advice ignored which could have saved lives. I recommend reading it.


I have read it and do agree on some points, however you've only got to look back to the beginning of this thread as to how Covid was dismissed and it was felt as not much to worry about until it became more obviously making people in this country seriously ill. It's easy to look back and point out what was done badly when you don't have a country to run and keeping an economy going.
Anyway this is not the place for this as I have said before, why not start a thread on the report @MollySmith as we don't want this thread closed due to a politics.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> To a point I agree, but it's clear from the report that repeated errors where made and advice ignored which could have saved lives. I recommend reading it.


I've read it, it's made me so angry but as we are not allowed to discuss it I will quietly rant to Sox.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> I've read it, it's made me so angry but as we are not allowed to discuss it I will quietly rant to Sox.


I shall think of you ranting and share your frustration. I could barely speak the words from the highlights to my husband and though forum members may think I'm perhaps permanently spitting (hehe!) I'm truthfully not. I'm a fairly chilled bird but yeah, that made me so emotional. So sad, so angry and fearful. Anyway.... enough, rant in private and I respect the rules. Take care lovely, it's a lot to digest isn't it?


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> I shall think of you ranting and share your frustration. I could barely speak the words from the highlights to my husband and though forum members may think I'm perhaps permanently spitting (hehe!) I'm truthfully not. I'm a fairly chilled bird but yeah, that made me so emotional. So sad, so angry and fearful. Anyway.... enough, rant in private and I respect the rules. Take care lovely, it's a lot to digest isn't it?


 I am also normally quite chilled but have been spitting so much the last few years I'm sure the boxers roll their eyes whenever I turn on the news.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> I have read it and do agree on some points, however you've only got to look back to the beginning of this thread as to how Covid was dismissed and it was felt as not much to worry about until it became more obviously making people in this country seriously ill. It's easy to look back and point out what was done badly when you don't have a country to run and keeping an economy going.
> Anyway this is not the place for this as I have said before, why not start a thread on the report @MollySmith as we don't want this thread closed due to a politics.


I am not that brave!


----------



## MollySmith

At the shops today and less mask wearing and then I saw this on Twitter. Kit Yates is a senior lecturer in mathematics at the University of Bath. It does feel like we've just got used to this and we mustn't. It's not top news on the TV now I noticed.

*it's not an attempt to make this political* I didn't want to chop off Kit's thread and lose the impact of the stats.

The article that he has contributed to is here and it has some interesting observations about the psychology of acceptance and tolerance.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-why-this-may-not-last?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


----------



## Siskin

I was at the Cheltenham hospital yesterday for an MRI and noticed several patients waiting weren’t wearing masks which I thought was pretty stupid. The Gloucester hospital is much more proactive over this and a nurse was going around the waiting area asking those whose masks had slipped from their nose to pull it up and cover the nose.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Every day I read the stats and cannot believe how many people are getting Covid and how many still are dying from it. It is heading towards 140,000 who have died due to Covid. 

We can do so much to prevent spread, yet we aren’t. I still have arguments most days at work about people not wanting to wear a mask. One man actually said the other day - after we’d asked him three time to wear his mask - “well you’re all double jabbed so it doesn’t matter”. Actually, whether we are or aren’t isn’t the issue. The issue is many of our women aren’t (that’s another whole issue) and he isn’t prepared to protect them. That’s why I get the rage. Poor man “can’t cope” with a mask for an hour he says…our response was “try it for 12 hours like we do every single working day”. Then we told him it was mask/visor or leave. 

I can’t believe we’re still having this battle. Wait until ‘flu joins the party as well…

I don’t care what people think of me, I’m still wearing my mask - and I’m still going to avoid busy places as much as I can. I’m not dealing well with it, running away from it, I just cannot stand the thought of passing it either to someone I love or who is in my care. 

I can only be responsible for my own actions, so that’s what I’ve decided I’m doing - continuing to mask up and continuing to avoid busy places  I used to be such a sociable woman too…


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> It's easy to look back and point out what was done badly


Absolutely, the whole thing was totally unprecedented - no previous cases to learn from or compare with. One thing that was exemplary was the vaccination programme (credit where it is due).


----------



## Boxer123

Ok going to have a rant without trying to get political. 

We can’t just shrug it off as it’s never happened before. For joe blogs we may not have taken it seriously but in government they have disaster planning. For years medical professionals have been saying we will have a pandemic not if when. 

My mum works in a doctors surgery and they often have training days on what if sceneries. Planning and preparation is part of what our government are paid to do. So when we did not have enough PPE this was a failure.

Medical advice was ignored hindsight is a wonderful thing and we had it as we could see what was happening in Europe in particular Italy. Instead we continued with Cheltenham, shock hands with Covid patients and missed I think 5 cobra meetings. 

You don’t need hindsight to know what will happen if you send infected people back into care homes. At one point one of the homes near here lost 11 residents in one day. The horror and trauma of that I cannot imagine. 

For those working in bin bags on the front line I imagine they will want to know how this happened. For who lost loved ones who died alone. 

I don’t know whether I’m over sensitive but surely we must hold people accountable and learn from this or it will happy again. 

We have known this was coming for years.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> I don't know whether I'm over sensitive but surely we must hold people accountable and learn from this or it will happy again.
> 
> We have known this was coming for years.


You aren't been over sensitive your talking a lot of sense, as you say, we have known something like this was going happen for years but no one in the governments a round the world took any notice.


----------



## pinklizzy

I'm currently isolating at home (away from the rest of the family who are thank god still negative).
Have had both vaccinations, not been anywhere on holiday/out to eat/night's out, wear a mask all day everyday at work and when shopping etc.
The symptoms have been relatively mild apart from absolute bone shattering lethargy and feeling pyrexic although my temperature is normal. Can't imagine how it would have been without my vaccinations though and I know I've been very lucky to be able to have the space to isolate away from the family. 
I just can't understand why people wouldn't still be wearing masks when out, even if it's no longer mandatory.


----------



## ForestWomble

pinklizzy said:


> I'm currently isolating at home (away from the rest of the family who are thank god still negative).
> Have had both vaccinations, not been anywhere on holiday/out to eat/night's out, wear a mask all day everyday at work and when shopping etc.
> The symptoms have been relatively mild apart from absolute bone shattering lethargy and feeling pyrexic although my temperature is normal. Can't imagine how it would have been without my vaccinations though and I know I've been very lucky to be able to have the space to isolate away from the family.
> I just can't understand why people wouldn't still be wearing masks when out, even if it's no longer mandatory.


Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> Ok going to have a rant without trying to get political.
> 
> We can't just shrug it off as it's never happened before. For joe blogs we may not have taken it seriously but in government they have disaster planning. For years medical professionals have been saying we will have a pandemic not if when.
> 
> My mum works in a doctors surgery and they often have training days on what if sceneries. Planning and preparation is part of what our government are paid to do. So when we did not have enough PPE this was a failure.
> 
> Medical advice was ignored hindsight is a wonderful thing and we had it as we could see what was happening in Europe in particular Italy. Instead we continued with Cheltenham, shock hands with Covid patients and missed I think 5 cobra meetings.
> 
> You don't need hindsight to know what will happen if you send infected people back into care homes. At one point one of the homes near here lost 11 residents in one day. The horror and trauma of that I cannot imagine.
> 
> For those working in bin bags on the front line I imagine they will want to know how this happened. For who lost loved ones who died alone.
> 
> I don't know whether I'm over sensitive but surely we must hold people accountable and learn from this or it will happy again.
> 
> We have known this was coming for years.


I agree with @Siskin that on page 1 we had no idea. I didn't, I recall going to a pub quiz with friends in February 2020 and one saying they were bumping elbows. Bear in mind that two of us have awful immune systems - we were 'yeah yeah' thinking blimey she's a bit paranoid. This was based on the news, the messages from those in power and just the sense it was 'over there' somewhere across an ocean.

But those at the top in power, had access to a lot more when we were on page 1 of this thread, despite missing Cobra meetings.

Yes, I 100% agree, accountability. From the top down so that future generations never have to go through this again, and we learn collectively.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh dear @pinklizzy  GWS and hope you don't feel too awful.

The problem @Siskin is that we get no back up at all when we ask people to wear a mask and a load of grief, so I get why some hospital staff don't push it any longer. I am motivated as I want to protect our entire waiting room of women, so I will and do challenge - but some don't. I've been threatened and sworn at and complained about and not backed up once by my manager. I'm fact if she is in the department and someone is arguing, she closes her door. Urgh.


----------



## pinklizzy

@Mrs Funkin that's just so awful, bad enough that you're even having to ask people to wear a mask but not to receive any support from management!


----------



## MollySmith

pinklizzy said:


> I'm currently isolating at home (away from the rest of the family who are thank god still negative).
> Have had both vaccinations, not been anywhere on holiday/out to eat/night's out, wear a mask all day everyday at work and when shopping etc.
> The symptoms have been relatively mild apart from absolute bone shattering lethargy and feeling pyrexic although my temperature is normal. Can't imagine how it would have been without my vaccinations though and I know I've been very lucky to be able to have the space to isolate away from the family.
> I just can't understand why people wouldn't still be wearing masks when out, even if it's no longer mandatory.


Take care, I am sorry. It goes to show how easy it is to get it but I really hope you feel better very soon.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh dear @pinklizzy  GWS and hope you don't feel too awful.
> 
> The problem @Siskin is that we get no back up at all when we ask people to wear a mask and a load of grief, so I get why some hospital staff don't push it any longer. I am motivated as I want to protect our entire waiting room of women, so I will and do challenge - but some don't. I've been threatened and sworn at and complained about and not backed up once by my manager. I'm fact if she is in the department and someone is arguing, she closes her door. Urgh.


How awful especially as your manager gives no support.
I wouldn't have liked to argue with the nurse at the Gloucester hospital, she was scary


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Siskin said:


> How awful especially as your manager gives no support.
> I wouldn't have liked to argue with the nurse at the Gloucester hospital, she was scary


I think that is what they say about me, too @Siskin


----------



## cheekyscrip

My OH had a booster… on the third day developed fever. Now is or sleeping or singing (Soud of Music, Neil Young, Sinatra and other similar stuff) Garfield started yowling and can’t blame him…

I am taking Scrip out but we cannot walk forever…

:Banghead


----------



## Hazel Man

Thank God where I live the vast majority of people still wear face masks when in close proximity with others and people also remain a distance away from strangers.

I would hate to live in an area where people don’t take the virus seriously. I have lost two family members and one friend to the virus.

I have had both of my vaccines and although I still wear a face mask in shops, etc, I do look forward to when we can all reach a sense of normality I.e. not wearing a mask in a shop, again.

We are going to have to learn to live with the virus whether we like it or not.


----------



## StormyThai

Mod hat on...

Come on guys... you have been asked several times to keep politics out of this thread...

@Rafa actually yes... myself and many others have been able to praise when things were handled correctly. But that is beside the point.

This thread is not for political fighting... start a new thread if you (general you) want to talk about failings (there were many, no excuses considering their job), supposed conspiracy theories or anything else.
If we have to keep reminding then the thread will be closed.


----------



## StormyThai

Seriously! :Locktopic


----------



## simplysardonic

Reopening this thread after spending my tea break pruning it.

Please for the love of dog, keep it civil on here & don't bring politics into it, this thread has been going a long time, has provided a space for people to talk & help/support each other, blow off steam etc & it would be shame to shut it permanently.

Play nice folks.


----------



## StormyThai

I wondered why things started to disappear from my eyes as I was going through :Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

Feeling awful. Dizzy, clammy and raised temperature. Bit of a cough and brain fog. I’ve ordered lateral flow test just in case. It’s so silly to be worried as I suspect it’s my body celebrating World Menopause Day but because we’ve been on hols I have this extra level of worry. Even though I did all the regular precautions.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> Feeling awful. Dizzy, clammy and raised temperature. Bit of a cough and brain fog. I've ordered lateral flow test just in case. It's so silly to be worried as I suspect it's my body celebrating World Menopause Day but because we've been on hols I have this extra level of worry. Even though I did all the regular precautions.


There is a lot going round. That's making people feel dreadful.

Son has come back from Edinburgh really poorly bless him. Just done a lateral flow test negative. Will retest if he doesn't feel better son. He says he should do the PCR but hasn't the energy to get there


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> There is a lot going round. That's making people feel dreadful.
> 
> Son has come back from Edinburgh really poorly bless him. Just done a lateral flow test negative. Will retest if he doesn't feel better son. He says he should do the PCR but hasn't the energy to get there


I hope he feels better soon. Yes, lots of weird things about at the moment.


----------



## pinklizzy

Hope you feel better soon @MollySmith 

@lullabydream sorry your son is feeling unwell too, he could maybe order a home test PCR if not feeling well enough to go out to be tested?

I still have 4 days isolation left, feeling a lot better though apart from having totally lost my sense of smell and everything I eat just tastes bad, maybe it'll be a good diet strategy


----------



## lullabydream

pinklizzy said:


> Hope you feel better soon @MollySmith
> 
> @lullabydream sorry your son is feeling unwell too, he could maybe order a home test PCR if not feeling well enough to go out to be tested?
> 
> I still have 4 days isolation left, feeling a lot better though apart from having totally lost my sense of smell and everything I eat just tastes bad, maybe it'll be a good diet strategy


I did mention online but he's is vaccinated and stoic about the whole thing.

I don't know if it's placebo or what but I feel groggy.

Hope you get taste back asap. That's just horrible when it's like that


----------



## margy

MollySmith said:


> I hope he feels better soon. Yes, lots of weird things about at the moment.


Hope you feel better soon, I tested myself on Thurs before starting my 4 lates at work.It was negative. Then Fri night got a sore throat and runny nose, headache. Mon and it's gone apart from the odd coughing fit. Just another cold but it's the second one I've had and it's only October! I don't often get colds so not looking forward to the rest of the winter.


----------



## MollySmith

pinklizzy said:


> Hope you feel better soon @MollySmith
> 
> @lullabydream sorry your son is feeling unwell too, he could maybe order a home test PCR if not feeling well enough to go out to be tested?
> 
> I still have 4 days isolation left, feeling a lot better though apart from having totally lost my sense of smell and everything I eat just tastes bad, maybe it'll be a good diet strategy


thank you, pleased to hear you're feeling better and I hope your tastebuds return soon.



margy said:


> Hope you feel better soon, I tested myself on Thurs before starting my 4 lates at work.It was negative. Then Fri night got a sore throat and runny nose, headache. Mon and it's gone apart from the odd coughing fit. Just another cold but it's the second one I've had and it's only October! I don't often get colds so not looking forward to the rest of the winter.


Thank you. I hope you've had your share of colds and that's it. Take care and make sure you get some rest.


----------



## catz4m8z

margy said:


> I don't often get colds so not looking forward to the rest of the winter.


Hopefully you have had all your colds for the year then! Although it sounds like we should all watch out this year as I have heard of some quite nasty colds doing the rounds. Not to mention flu season coming up.....honestly its worth staying masked to try and avoid all of it, not just covid!
Booked my booster for 1/11 so I'll be glad to get that done. My last lot were booked through work but annoyingly the system doesnt seem to recognize me anymore! Still it was no bother to book online at home and I only have to go to my local Boots in my town centre which is about a 15 minute walk away!
Now to get myself a flu jab....


----------



## lullabydream

catz4m8z said:


> Hopefully you have had all your colds for the year then! Although it sounds like we should all watch out this year as I have heard of some quite nasty colds doing the rounds. Not to mention flu season coming up.....honestly its worth staying masked to try and avoid all of it, not just covid!
> Booked my booster for 1/11 so I'll be glad to get that done. My last lot were booked through work but annoyingly the system doesnt seem to recognize me anymore! Still it was no bother to book online at home and I only have to go to my local Boots in my town centre which is about a 15 minute walk away!
> Now to get myself a flu jab....


You could have booked at boots for flu too. I know as routine to they do it at work.


----------



## Siskin

Had my booster jab yesterday. Arm sore, otherwise feel fine, no reactions yet part from feeling a bit sleepy last night


----------



## Happy Paws2

Someone's worried if BJ isn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58976577

And I agree with them!


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Feeling awful. Dizzy, clammy and raised temperature. Bit of a cough and brain fog. I've ordered lateral flow test just in case. It's so silly to be worried as I suspect it's my body celebrating World Menopause Day but because we've been on hols I have this extra level of worry. Even though I did all the regular precautions.


Just a reminder that if you think you have symptoms of Covid, you should really isolate and book a PCR.

Lateral flow is for when you are asymptomatic.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> Just a reminder that if you think you have symptoms of Covid, you should really isolate and book a PCR.
> 
> Lateral flow is for when you are asymptomatic.


I second this. PCR is more sensitive than lateral flow tests (70-80% compared with 50-70%) and the government advice is that if you develop any new symptom of covid you must book a PCR. You can get them delivered to your home if you cannot travel. It's recommended to use PCR up to 5 days after the first onset of symptoms but if you have concerns and you're out with the 5 days you can contact your GP and they can tell you what they'd recommend (probably isolation). Additionally, your family members should be isolating even if asymptomatic.


----------



## SbanR

catz4m8z said:


> Hopefully you have had all your colds for the year then! Although it sounds like we should all watch out this year as I have heard of some quite nasty colds doing the rounds. Not to mention flu season coming up.....honestly its worth staying masked to try and avoid all of it, not just covid!
> Booked my booster for 1/11 so I'll be glad to get that done. My last lot were booked through work but annoyingly the system doesnt seem to recognize me anymore! Still it was no bother to book online at home and I only have to go to my local Boots in my town centre which is about a 15 minute walk away!
> Now to get myself a flu jab....


Go to Boots and try asking them if they'll book you in for a flu jab at the same time. Worth a try. I know they participate in the annual flu booster programme


----------



## lullabydream

SbanR said:


> Go to Boots and try asking them if they'll book you in for a flu jab at the same time. Worth a try. I know they participate in the annual flu booster programme


After going to Boots I don't think I would go anywhere else now. So much better than going to the Drs surgery


----------



## Siskin

Have got a very stubborn headache today which is likely to be a reaction to the Pfizer booster jab I had yesterday as I just cannot shift it with my normal go to pills for headaches. First time I’ve had a reaction to a Covid jab so hopefully it means I have a decent antibody level now.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Have got a very stubborn headache today which is likely to be a reaction to the Pfizer booster jab I had yesterday as I just cannot shift it with my normal go to pills for headaches. First time I've had a reaction to a Covid jab so hopefully it means I have a decent antibody level now.


 hope you feel better soon xxxx


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Have got a very stubborn headache today which is likely to be a reaction to the Pfizer booster jab I had yesterday as I just cannot shift it with my normal go to pills for headaches. First time I've had a reaction to a Covid jab so hopefully it means I have a decent antibody level now.


hope you'll be feeling better soon. X


----------



## Boxer123

Numbers are getting very scary again.


----------



## kimthecat

Have Covid booster booked for end of october. I dont know what brand it will be. Had AZ last time.

@Siskin Hope your headache clears up soon.


----------



## £54etgfb6

.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Have Covid booster booked for end of october. I dont know what brand it will be. Had AZ last time.
> 
> @Siskin Hope your headache clears up soon.


The nurse that was giving the shots said that everyone will have Pfizer irrespective to what they had before. I presume this is nationwide and not just north Cotswolds.


----------



## Siskin

Boxer123 said:


> Numbers are getting very scary again.


They are aren't they, rather worrying. Even where I live is abnormally higher, but we do have the Ag college so it could be students bringing it in and gaily mixing with one another without a care in the world. Hopefully the booster I've just had will keep the lurgi away especially as I'm expecting to end up back in hospital again soon sorting out the metalwork in the leg.


----------



## SusieRainbow

bmr10 said:


> Probably a combo of lowered immune systems due to colder weather, influx of international students (in some cities at least), and dangerous relaxation of guidelines (varies between the countries of the UK). Will be amazed if the government listen to the NHS and research scientists this time or if they wait until they are forced to do something and we are plunged into another lockdown. I am cynical but I always get the feeling the government are trying to balance how many people they can let die and how much money they can squeeze out of the economy. I think all we can do is take individual action in our own lives and hope for the best.


Can we leave the politics out please?


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> They are aren't they, rather worrying. Even where I live is abnormally higher, but we do have the Ag college so it could be students bringing it in and gaily mixing with one another without a care in the world. Hopefully the booster I've just had will keep the lurgi away especially as I'm expecting to end up back in hospital again soon sorting out the metalwork in the leg.


Our county has gone down a bit apparently but it's rife in schools. I've kept my mask on every where actually quite like my mask as it covers half my face


----------



## £54etgfb6

SusieRainbow said:


> Can we leave the politics out please?


Apologies, I just remembered the previous general warning right now and came back to edit my post. I guess I wasn't quick enough lol. Dw I can delete it.


----------



## MollySmith

No plan B according to press conference and yet have bought up all antiviral meds.

See that stable door over there......... the horse got out already 

As someone wisely said on Twitter today, we are not learning to live with it, we are learning to die with it and that is heartbreaking.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> Just a reminder that if you think you have symptoms of Covid, you should really isolate and book a PCR.
> 
> Lateral flow is for when you are asymptomatic.


yes, thank you. The symptoms were asymptomatic when I checked it all. Fine now, fairly sure it's linked to peri menopause ,


----------



## kimthecat

Boxer123 said:


> Numbers are getting very scary again.


It doesnt help that people arent wearing masks and not getting vaccinated or following rules. I hope there wont be another lockdown. I bet the same people will complain about that.


----------



## StormyThai

Boxer123 said:


> Our county has gone down a bit apparently but it's rife in schools. I've kept my mask on every where actually quite like my mask as it covers half my face


We have had 934 cases in the last week which is up 172 from last week and makes us higher than the average area in England...not sure if I should ask my dad to hold off coming up to visit...I just don't know what to do for the best


----------



## Jaf

In Spain. Just had flu and pneumonia jabs. Very pleased to get them as they're only calling over 70s. For some reason those with health conditions, like me, have to ask rather than it being automatic. There must be people who don't know that they should ask. 

I'm not sure if/ when I'll get the covid booster.


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> We have had 934 cases in the last week which is up 172 from last week and makes us higher than the average area in England...not sure if I should ask my dad to hold off coming up to visit...I just don't know what to do for the best


That's a big jump. 
Is he travelling by car ?

Just watching the briefing case might hit 100000 per day in winter scary stuff. I don't understand the hesitancy on reintroducing mask wearing it's so easy.


----------



## Boxer123

kimthecat said:


> It doesnt help that people arent wearing masks and not getting vaccinated or following rules. I hope there wont be another lockdown. I bet the same people will complain about that.


They have said there won't be ..... watch this space for a u turn. I think folk have got very complacent. I just want my flu jab quick.


----------



## Magyarmum

The figures are going up again in Hungary which I'm not too happy about. I've noticed though more and more people of all ages are beginning to wear masks again so obviously I'm not the only one who's worried.

I just don't believe it ..... the wife of a friend still hasn't been vaccinated and is living her life as though the virus doesn't exist. She's in her 60's and I feel it must be only a matter of time before she becomes infected. I only hope I'm wrong.


----------



## StormyThai

Boxer123 said:


> That's a big jump.
> Is he travelling by car ?


Yes he is, but he will be staying in a hotel and we were supposed to be going out to dinner.
Hardly anyone is wearing a mask around here now, and any request for a bit of space falls on deaf ears 
I really want to see him. Desperately want to see him...but the last thing he needs is to catch covid to take home with him


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> Yes he is, but he will be staying in a hotel and we were supposed to be going out to dinner.
> Hardly anyone is wearing a mask around here now, and any request for a bit of space falls on deaf ears
> I really want to see him. Desperately want to see him...but the last thing he needs is to catch covid to take home with him


It's difficult to know what to do isn't it.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’ve been concerned about the case numbers for a while - but the deaths are now jumping again, which is obviously awful. I’m still not sure about folk giving it the old, “it’s just like the flu” line. Last time I looked the only flu season with this many deaths was the Spanish flu epidemic. A bad flu and pneumonia combined year in this country is about 25k deaths (and that’s combined, flu around around 2k) - so quite how it’s become sort of okay for many people that close to 140k people have died as a result of Covid is completely beyond me. Completely. 

I’ve been umming about a booster but I have it booked for Saturday. I need to protect my husband as he’s not in the booster group - and with my job I’m his biggest danger.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Thankfully masks are still required in public spaces and transportation in Scotland. I do not know if this is going to change but I don’t think it will at all. I still see most people wearing masks at uni, in shops, and at the pharmacy. I get a LOT of people in my pharmacy asking to buy masks!! Unfortunately, we are always sold out (a good and a bad thing). Admittedly, their reasoning is usually that they are being forced to wear one but I suppose any reason is a reason. Most people without a mask are displaying lanyards too which is nice to see. A lot of people are telling me they have their double jab too (covid and flu on same day). I am not aware of how Scotland is faring with rises in cases (I don’t read the general news) but I hope it does not continue to rise.


----------



## StormyThai

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm still not sure about folk giving it the old, "it's just like the flu" line. Last time I looked the only flu season with this many deaths was the Spanish flu epidemic. A bad flu and pneumonia combined year in this country is about 25k deaths (and that's combined, flu around around 2k) - so quite how it's become sort of okay for many people that close to 140k people have died as a result of Covid is completely beyond me. Completely.


I've been saying this for a while now...I am more than happy to treat covid like the flu if/when we get death rate under control. 
139,000 deaths in a year is not ok, and is not something we should have to live with IMHO

So thank you, it's kind of nice to hear someone else say what I have been thinking.


----------



## Boxer123

StormyThai said:


> I've been saying this for a while now...I am more than happy to treat covid like the flu if/when we get death rate under control.
> 139,000 deaths in a year is not ok, and is not something we should have to live with IMHO
> 
> So thank you, it's kind of nice to hear someone else say what I have been thinking.


Completely agree a lot is made of the age of people dying but it is still taking people to early, people are dying alone and it's an awful way to go.


----------



## Siskin

I don’t know why it is that so many people in this country think they are invulnerable and that simply being healthy and fit means they won’t get Covid. This is a major part of the problem I believe.
It was said on the news that there is a reluctance to bring back mask wearing as the general public will think here we go again. But surely it’s better to make it a law that masks must be worn again in crowded situations, shops etc rather then end up with another lockdown.


----------



## ForestWomble

-


----------



## Psygon

StormyThai said:


> I've been saying this for a while now...I am more than happy to treat covid like the flu if/when we get death rate under control.
> 139,000 deaths in a year is not ok, and is not something we should have to live with IMHO
> 
> So thank you, it's kind of nice to hear someone else say what I have been thinking.


I think I read (and will find the article) that the current death rate (not including what happened at the start of the year) is 40000 a year. If that's what COVID looks like with a vaccinated population, that's still pretty scary in my opinion.

Edit: this is where I read it. Right near bottom of article
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last


----------



## StormyThai

Psygon said:


> I think I read (and will find the article) that the current death rate (not including what happened at the start of the year) is 40000 a year. If that's what COVID looks like with a vaccinated population, that's still pretty scary in my opinion.
> 
> Edit: this is where I read it. Right near bottom of article
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last


The number I posted is the number of covid deaths registered so far this year and that came from gov.uk, interestingly deaths from non residents aren't included so the number could be higher and we aren't even through the year yet 

"We've become used to something that has not gone away. I think there's been a desensitisation to the mortality."
Sadly I think she is very right with that statement


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I've been concerned about the case numbers for a while - but the deaths are now jumping again, which is obviously awful. I'm still not sure about folk giving it the old, "it's just like the flu" line. Last time I looked the only flu season with this many deaths was the Spanish flu epidemic. A bad flu and pneumonia combined year in this country is about 25k deaths (and that's combined, flu around around 2k) - so quite how it's become sort of okay for many people that close to 140k people have died as a result of Covid is completely beyond me. Completely.
> 
> I've been umming about a booster but I have it booked for Saturday. I need to protect my husband as he's not in the booster group - and with my job I'm his biggest danger.


Having had flu that became pneumonia three years ago, I became very aware of people who were off work for a few days and claim they had flu. It's a bloody awful cold, flu can wipe people out for weeks. I do think there is a weird misunderstanding or disparity over what colds, flu and Covid are. I don't know if that's altering the view but as you rightly say somehow some people have become accepting of these awful stats. I don't know if it's because they are stats not names? It removes some personal connections when it comes to reporting.

I hope Sat goes well. My husband is booked, I should be getting mine soon.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> Someone's worried if BJ isn't.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58976577
> 
> And I agree with them!


I agree.

It makes sense to me to make masks mandatory again in public indoors spaces to stop a massive spike through winter.

Relying on people to choose to wear one is clearly not working as the vast majority I encounter are not.

I understand that NHS staff are getting very concerned about facing another bad Covid winter … and I don't blame them. If they can wear masks for 12 hour shifts, Joe Public can surely manage it for short periods?


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> We have had 934 cases in the last week which is up 172 from last week and makes us higher than the average area in England...not sure if I should ask my dad to hold off coming up to visit...I just don't know what to do for the best


(hugs) I'm so sorry, it's a big dilemma isn't it? Wish I had some useful words


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> I agree.
> 
> It makes sense to me to make masks mandatory again in public indoors spaces to stop a massive spike through winter.
> 
> Relying on people to choose to wear one is clearly not working as the vast majority I encounter are not.
> 
> I understand that NHS staff are getting very concerned about facing another bad Covid winter … and I don't blame them. If they can wear masks for 12 hour shifts, Joe Public can surely manage it for short periods?


Agree.

I just don't understand why it's so dammed hard to do this and cannot begin to imagine how frustrating and insulting it must be to work for the NHS and in science and be ignored again and again. Surely the aim is to save lives, but often it feels like some have a death wish.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Unless BJ does something to slow things down now, he'll ruin Christmas again.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Happy Paws2 said:


> Unless BJ does something to slow things down now, he'll ruin Christmas again.


I am selfishly hoping we do not have a lockdown as I did not get to spend last christmas with my grandparents. They raised me and I have spent every christmas of my life with them. I am incredibly close to them and they cannot understand that me being at university and work means that I pose a threat to them infection wise. I spent last christmas alone for the first time ever, I'm sure a lot of people did and some people probably spend it alone every year and it's no big deal to them. It was not so bad but when they phoned me and told me how they missed me it hurt my heart. I hope I can spend this christmas with them.


----------



## StormyThai

MollySmith said:


> (hugs) I'm so sorry, it's a big dilemma isn't it? Wish I had some useful words


Thank you, I think that I have decided to ask him to hold off so long as he hasn't booked...I don't think I could handle losing another member of my family to this virus 
I want to spend Christmas with him so lets hope things are good for mw to travel down to him...maybe I won't come back


----------



## SbanR

bmr10 said:


> I am selfishly hoping we do not have a lockdown as I did not get to spend last christmas with my grandparents. They raised me and I have spent every christmas of my life with them. I am incredibly close to them and they cannot understand that me being at university and work means that I pose a threat to them infection wise. I spent last christmas alone for the first time ever, I'm sure a lot of people did and some people probably spend it alone every year and it's no big deal to them. It was not so bad but when they phoned me and told me how they missed me it hurt my heart. I hope I can spend this christmas with them.


I hope your wish comes through bmr. So sad to read of your Christmas phone call.


----------



## willa

Switched on the Press Conference to see Javid saying we can expect 100,000 new cases a day, but they still won’t be going to Plan B ?

Wtf why are they so reluctant to take action ? Surely they must realise the mess we are in, and with winter approaching will only get worse.

Also seems like the Boosters have fallen way behind schedule


----------



## SusieRainbow

willa said:


> Switched on the Press Conference to see Javid saying we can expect 100,000 new cases a day, but they still won't be going to Plan B ?
> 
> Wtf why are they so reluctant to take action ? Surely they must realise the mess we are in, and with winter approaching will only get worse.
> 
> Also seems like the Boosters have fallen way behind schedule


PLEASE can we leave politics out of this ? I may have to start deleting politcal references or posts.:Banghead


----------



## Siskin

It would be interesting to know the ages of the people who are dying and whether they have been vaccinated or not. I've read several pieces over the last 6 months which are saying that it's largely unvaccinated that are in hospital, this was also something remarked upon by a porter when I was in hospital in July. There wasn't that many in hospital at that time with Covid, but all of them were unvaccinated. I know @Mrs Funkin has said recently that a lot of her unvaccinated mums to be are suffering badly from Covid.


----------



## rona

BIL who works in hospital that deals with Covid patients, says it is virtually all unvaccinated filling the wards

My local council do a very in-depth round up every month and a huge proportion of cases so far are school outbreaks


----------



## Boxer123

SusieRainbow said:


> PLEASE can we leave politics out of this ? I may have to start deleting politcal references or posts.:Banghead


Can we confirm why we are not allowed to discuss this I understand you don't want people arguing but it seems strange we are not allowed to discuss the briefings when they are so important.


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> I am selfishly hoping we do not have a lockdown as I did not get to spend last christmas with my grandparents. They raised me and I have spent every christmas of my life with them. I am incredibly close to them and they cannot understand that me being at university and work means that I pose a threat to them infection wise. I spent last christmas alone for the first time ever, I'm sure a lot of people did and some people probably spend it alone every year and it's no big deal to them. It was not so bad but when they phoned me and told me how they missed me it hurt my heart. I hope I can spend this christmas with them.


Your not been selfish, I just everyone can have a lovely Christmas with their loved ones, that's why I don't understand why BJ doesn't make wearing masks compulsory in any crowded places buses and trains again. I think will have to come, I just hope he doesn't act to late like last time.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Boxer123 said:


> Can we confirm why we are not allowed to discuss this I understand you don't want people arguing but it seems strange we are not allowed to discuss the briefings when they are so important.


Unforunately discussion of government handling DOES lead to argument. 
Many forums do not allow any political discusson at all, we do here on other threads but members have requested that this particular one is kept politics free,


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Your not been selfish, I just everyone can have a lovely Christmas with their loved ones, that's why I don't understand why BJ doesn't make wearing masks compulsory in any crowded places buses and trains again. I think will have to come, I just hope he doesn't act to late like last time.


 There's a thread on my local ''Nextdoor'' about it and there is now a petition as so many people think it's essential in shops and on trains/buses. Half the people you see now are not wearing one, even shop assistants. But one lady (on Nextdoor) wrote that a group of four people got on the bus together without masks and she told the driver there were signs saying that they should cover their faces on public transport, and he should remind them by playing the recorded message. Apparently he stopped the bus, left his seat to come and abuse HER. Apparently the other passengers supported her so he went back to his driving seat. I told her I hoped she reported him.


----------



## Calvine

Boxer123 said:


> Can we confirm why we are not allowed to discuss this I understand you don't want people arguing but it seems strange we are not allowed to discuss the briefings when they are so important.


 I agree with you, @Boxer123. I tend not to post about things political, for the simple reason I do not follow politics at all. But I think when there is a pandemic threatening millions of people for whose health and LIVES the the government is ultimately responsible, then Covid and politics are inextricably connected to each other and they really cannot be separated. And yes, I think ''they'' should bring back masks in highly populated places (is that political?).


----------



## SusieRainbow

Calvine said:


> I agree with you, @Boxer123. I tend not to post about things political, for the simple reason I do not follow politics at all. But I think when there is a pandemic threatening millions of people for whose health and LIVES the the government is ultimately responsible, then Covid and politics are inextricably connected to each other and they really cannot be separated. And yes, I think ''they'' should bring back masks in highly populated places (is that political?).


I really can see your logic around this issue , the two are strongly connected. But I also feel that this thread could so easily turn in to a government bashing orgy through anger and frustration. I will consult with the other mods to see what they think.


----------



## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> I really can see your logic around this issue , the two are strongly connected. But I also feel that this tread could so easily turn in to a government bashing orgy through anger and frustration. I will consult with the other mods to see what they think.


I can see your point - thank you.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> There's a thread on my local ''Nextdoor'' about it and there is now a petition as so many people think it's essential in shops and on trains/buses. Half the people you see now are not wearing one, even shop assistants. But one lady (on Nextdoor) wrote that a group of four people got on the bus together without masks and she told the driver there were signs saying that they should cover their faces on public transport, and he should remind them by playing the recorded message. Apparently he stopped the bus, left his seat to come and abuse HER. Apparently the other passengers supported her so he went back to his driving seat. I told her I hoped she reported him.


That's ridiculous that he got out of his seat to tell her off because she told him to do his job. I am sure it is a very uncomfortable conversation for a bus driver to ask someone to wear a mask as I feel like some people do not take kindly to it. BUT it is necessary! Sometimes we have to be in uncomfortable situations. If people are not reminded/asked to wear a mask more and more people won't ): If there were signs in the bus saying to wear masks then I'd take his name or the registration of the bus and report it to the company. That's insanity.


----------



## SbanR

Very few people where I am are wearing masks now
Interestingly, in town and the shops it's mainly young adults wearing masks, only a small handful of older folk - are they relying solely on the booster for protection?
On the other hand, it's mainly older folk wearing masks on the bus


----------



## Siskin

SusieRainbow said:


> I really can see your logic around this issue , the two are strongly connected. But I also feel that this tread could so easily turn in to a government bashing orgy through anger and frustration. I will consult with the other mods to see what they think.


I would much prefer it if this thread would be kept politics free as I would probably stop reading it which would be a huge shame as there is much to be learned and discussed here about the virus.
I've said before, why don't the people who wish to discuss political issues of the day start their own thread on the subject so that others know what threads to avoid if they so choose,


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> That's ridiculous that he got out of his seat to tell her off because she told him to do his job. I am sure it is a very uncomfortable conversation for a bus driver to ask someone to wear a mask as I feel like some people do not take kindly to it. BUT it is necessary! Sometimes we have to be in uncomfortable situations. If people are not reminded/asked to wear a mask more and more people won't ): If there were signs in the bus saying to wear masks then I'd take his name or the registration of the bus and report it to the company. That's insanity.


It is bad that the driver did that. But can you imagine the pressure they are under. They get all sorts going on a bus. They often get abuse and spat at at the best of times. During coronavirus there are people who will get violent with the driver just for asking to put a mask on. And they can't get away, they are stuck in their seats if things get nasty. It's often easier for them to let things slide...

Often if people don't wear a mask, a recorded playing won't get them to.


----------



## Psygon

Siskin said:


> It would be interesting to know the ages of the people who are dying and whether they have been vaccinated or not. I've read several pieces over the last 6 months which are saying that it's largely unvaccinated that are in hospital, this was also something remarked upon by a porter when I was in hospital in July. There wasn't that many in hospital at that time with Covid, but all of them were unvaccinated. I know @Mrs Funkin has said recently that a lot of her unvaccinated mums to be are suffering badly from Covid.


Not sure if this fully answers your question but I read this yesterday:



> Most of the deaths, adjusted for age, are among unvaccinated people, who run at least a tenfold higher risk. But in absolute numbers, by far the majority of deaths are still in older people, despite them being vaccinated. According to Prof Christina Pagel, an expert in healthcare policy at University College London, a double-vaccinated 80-year-old may have about the same risk of dying from Covid as an unvaccinated 50-year-old.


Source (and note, it's from the Guardian, it's an opinion piece - it is political): https://www.theguardian.com/comment...le-ministers-precautions-infected-complacency


----------



## lullabydream

HarlequinCat said:


> Often if people don't wear a mask, a recorded playing won't get them to.


Absolutely the recorded playing at the entrance of the local hospital about not smoking does not prevent people. The hospital has also got a child voice asking people and reminding them not to smoke. Seems to fall on deaf ears at the entrance. 
Though I did see a security officer move them on but that's about it. (Round the corner, still in hospital area which has no smoking and smoke free hospital reminders)

About masks, no I don't see many wearing them here.
It annoys me that I cannot wear a mask currently because am having breathing difficulties. I want to wear a mask, I want to protect others and have some protection myself.


----------



## SusieRainbow

After dscussion with other mods I'm moving this thread to 'Health'.
Anyone who feels strongly about poltical relevances is welcome to start their own thread, it would be minimally moderated so keep it nice!


----------



## StormyThai

You know what...I think that it is absolutely ridiculous that full grown adults (those that are not exempt for valid reasons and not just deciding that they are exempt) need a law to get them to wear a fabric face covering to help protect themselves and others around them.
Yeah, yeah, I know they aren't 100%...but it is a piece of sodding cloth and there are plenty of different styles to make sure that they are as comfortable as can be...
(For all those that truly can't wear a mask this is not directed at you at all...others need to wear a mask to protect you as well) 


Rant:
If people stopped being fools and using "It's my right" as an excuse then we may have got through the worse of this by now...but instead people become complacent, especially when it isn't there own that is being effected so here we are again...people not able to get doctors appointments (you will be lucky if they even answer the phone in this town now that we are down to one surgery (they closed a couple because they weren't getting used, I mean lets not talk about the fact that they weren't getting used because there was no one to staff them), far too many people dying and many people scared to meet up with their family members again...
But I guess so long as you keep your rights to not wear a face covering huh?
/Rant

I will always support peoples right to be vaccinated or not, it is an individuals choice...but this backlash against a sodding fabric face covering is stupid!



JMHO of course!
My dad has already booked his hotel so he is coming up to see me and we will be doing things as low risk as possible...no meal out though!


----------



## niamh123

In wales we still have to wear masks in shop's on public transport and Dr's,Dentist and hospitals I have to say I haven't seen anyone not wearing their masks


----------



## O2.0

I'm ready to get back to when folks would have a cold, and go about their lives without feeling like pariahs if they sneezed or coughed in public.
I've had a very minor cold. It's just a run-of-the-mill cold. Watery eyes, sneezing fits, tickle in my throat. I don't feel tired or sick, just having a histamine reaction. It's the same cold several of my students have. 

I tested myself just to be on the safe side, even though I'm fully vaccinated. 
In the days before covid, I would have gone about my life and not thought twice about it. This made me a mess of indecision and anxiety. Do I call in sick? My overdeveloped sense of responsibility says 'you're not sick, quit slacking and go to work,' nevermind that there is so much going on right now that calling in sick is like planning a moon landing to get everything covered. My co-workers will have to fill in gaps and that makes me feel bad...
Long story short, no, I didn't call in sick. Cold lasted all of 3 days with two nights of coughing and sneezing. The anxiety around it was far worse than the actual cold symptoms. 

Looking at the figures, our cases went up in September but they've been steadily declining since then. 
We spent most of June and July averaging one or two new cases a day (for the county), got as high as 88 cases a day in September after school started back up, now back down to low 20's. And yes, folks who are vaccinated fare far better. Most with minimal symptoms. Loss of smell and taste is still the big indicator here, but no fever or other symptoms other than maybe a headache. 

At one of my kids universities, all students are tested weekly and they've been strict about quarantining kids who test positive. 
Vaccines are not mandatory yet though. Even though the meningitis and measles vaccines were...


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> Unforunately discussion of government handling DOES lead to argument.
> Many forums do not allow any political discusson at all, we do here on other threads but members have requested that this particular one is kept politics free,


How can you talk about Covid without mentioning the way the government is handling it?


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> How can you talk about Covid without mentioning the way the government is handling it?


It is difficult. But perhaps stop the bashing and the conspiracy theories. Im not sure if moving it to health will stop that. It just means less people will see the thread and not contribute.


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> It is difficult. But perhaps stop the bashing and the conspiracy theories. Im not sure if moving it to health will stop that. It just means less people will see the thread and not contribute.


Well, we'll have to see. One thing's certain , can't please everyone.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lets face it, the way it's been handled is political and you can't say it's not.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Lets face it, the way it's been handled is political and you can't say it's not.


perhaps start another thread as advised , I know people are angry but it doesnt help.

I started this thread and I didn't mean for it to be political , it's useful for updates and how we are getting on etc.


----------



## £54etgfb6

HarlequinCat said:


> It is bad that the driver did that. But can you imagine the pressure they are under. They get all sorts going on a bus. They often get abuse and spat at at the best of times. During coronavirus there are people who will get violent with the driver just for asking to put a mask on. And they can't get away, they are stuck in their seats if things get nasty. It's often easier for them to let things slide...
> 
> Often if people don't wear a mask, a recorded playing won't get them to.


Oh no I completely understand the bus driver not wanting to interrogate anyone about wearing a mask- some people may become so aggressive they get physical. Bus drivers get yelled at for prices they don't decide, timetables they don't decide, etc so I get it. Don't agree with him giving abuse to the woman who asked him to tell people to wear their mask though.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> perhaps start another thread as advised , I know people are angry but it doesnt help.
> 
> I started this thread and I didn't mean for it to be political , it's useful for updates and how we are getting on etc.


I don't think it would make any difference, I don't think you can separate the two.


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> Oh no I completely understand the bus driver not wanting to interrogate anyone about wearing a mask- some people may become so aggressive they get physical. Bus drivers get yelled at for prices they don't decide, timetables they don't decide, etc so I get it. Don't agree with him giving abuse to the woman who asked him to tell people to wear their mask though.


Oh I know, abuse is never right. It's been going on so long everyone is just frustrated and angry. He should have counted to 10 and let it go.


----------



## Boxer123

Sorry @SusieRainbow my question has caused you lots of work I completely get you don't want people arguing but there is just a thin line and it's hard to to mention the briefings or reports such as the one @MollySmith shared.

I can start a new thread which look at briefings and updated advice if people are interested if not I can abide by the no politics rule I just wasn't sure when it had arrived.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Boxer123 said:


> Sorry @SusieRainbow my question has caused you lots of work I completely get you don't want people arguing but there is just a thin line and it's hard to to mention the briefings or reports such as the one @MollySmith shared.
> 
> I can start a new thread which look at briefings and updated advice if people are interested if not I can abide by the no politics rule I just wasn't sure when it had arrived.


The 'no politics' rule was requested by some members very early in the thread. It was around the time that the pandemic was spreading rapidly and morbidity very high.( scary times!)
If you want to start a new thread along the lines that you describe, go for it.


----------



## willa

SusieRainbow said:


> PLEASE can we leave politics out of this ? I may have to start deleting politcal references or posts.:Banghead


I'm sorry. I didn't realise there was a problem talking about the press conferences .

I didn't think there was anything harmful in what I wrote


----------



## SusieRainbow

willa said:


> I'm sorry. I didn't realise there was a problem talking about the press conferences .
> 
> I didn't think there was anything harmful in what I wrote


Not harmful, no. 
Anyway, problem solved, see Covid Political. It's really hard to know where to draw the line and keep everyone happy.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> Not harmful, no.
> Anyway, problem solved, see Covid Political. It's really hard to know where to draw the line and keep everyone happy.


Eek ! Good luck with that.


----------



## kimthecat

I know there is a link to this thread and I know its a big ask but now we have another thread re Covid politics could we have this moved back to General ? Please  The link is locked and that will move down and new people wont see it. Not so many people check out health and i think its important to keep this thread going.


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Eek ! Good luck with that.


Thanks, I need it!


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> Thanks, I need it!


and this :Hilarious


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> and this :Hilarious
> View attachment 478295


i'll keep my head down!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Flipping heck another 52000 cases today. There doesn't feel to be an end in sight. I am in a PPE bubble at work which makes me more anxious to come out of it - and even more determined that ppl being seen in my department and those attending with them will wear a mask or a visor. I cannot stand the selfishness of it. I don't want to, I don't like it, I can't breathe, I get stressed. I know some ppl are exempt but we don't abide by that as we have such a small area full of a vulnerable population and we cannot and will not risk it for them. We do have visors if ppl can't wear a mask though, which are tolerated by everyone I have ever met who can't wear a mask. I apologise if that makes me sound heartless (I'm really not!) but we've worked so hard to keep our women safe we must not and will not let it go now. Especially not with pesky 'flu around the corner too…

I get where you are coming from @O2.0 re: the sniffles. Husband had a sniffle a few weekends back, he stayed away from parkrun because he didn't want to worry folk (he WFH so no concern there). A few months back I was running and had done a hard effort 5k and when I finished I coughed twice into my gloved hand - I was called an f* c* by another runner. It was all I could do to not chase him down and give him a mouthful. Just awful. A lady walking nearby was very upset by it. I coughed because I'd run really hard.

I'm sick of it all, really.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> I know there is a link to this thread and I know its a big ask but now we have another thread re Covid politics could we have this moved back to General ? Please  The link is locked and that will move down and new people wont see it. Not so many people check out health and i think its important to keep this thread going.


I did the link..maybe keep the link as a sticky during the pandemic? I obviously started that thread but I didn't want people to miss this thread. I check health, others don't!


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> I did the link..maybe keep the link as a sticky during the pandemic? I obviously started that thread but I didn't want people to miss this thread. I check health, others don't!


Yes , I'm glad you did the link. I look at health myself because my health isnt good, but a lot of people don't bother .

. I don't tend to look at stickys.  I tend to scroll straight down to the threads. I don't see why it can't be back to General with the Mods blessing , of course.


----------



## Siskin

We met some friends at the local pub today and we were on a table in one of the ‘rooms’ in the pub. The only people that would come into the room are ladies needing the loo. The pub wasn't busy anyway, but it was really too cold to sit in the garden especially as the sun wasn't on there. 
Chatting to the manager afterwards I passed a comment about the portion size of the fish and chips (whale and chips rather) and how it would be nice if there was an option to have a smaller portion like they have with a few other dishes. No problem he said, just ask and we will sort it for you and if two of you want the same thing in a small portion we would be happy to split a normal size dish between the two of you. They're a nice bunch at the pub, have become a real asset to the village especially during Covid. They hadn’t long taken over the pub, about 18 months I think before the pandemic hit, so it’s been hard on them as the pub needed a lot of work done on it before they opened which they had to finance as part of the deal with the group that owns the building.


----------



## kimthecat

Thank you Mods


----------



## kimthecat

I went for an ultrasound on my ankles yesterday. The hopsitals still insisting people wear masks unless they are exempted which is good, 
The Radiologist was wearing a mask and his two team members were wearing masks as we were. I explained my OH was with me as I can't hear very well and I couldn't understand people wearing masks and he very kindly took his mask off for me so I could understand him . I got most of what he was saying and OH filled me in with the rest. Really nice man.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> I went for an ultrasound on my ankles yesterday. The hopsitals still insisting people wear masks unless they are exempted which is good,
> The Radiologist was wearing a mask and his two team members were wearing masks as we were. I explained my OH was with me as I can't hear very well and I couldn't understand people wearing masks and he very kindly took his mask off for me so I could understand him . I got most of what he was saying and OH filled me in with the rest. Really nice man.


To be fair, we have had nice experience myself and for my friend who suffers health anxiety at hospitals. One receptionist found a nice area for me and my friend to sit out the way. The neurologist team was pleased I had bought someone with me as they knew my mental health was suffering


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I went for an ultrasound on my ankles yesterday. The hopsitals still insisting people wear masks unless they are exempted which is good,
> The Radiologist was wearing a mask and his two team members were wearing masks as we were. I explained my OH was with me as I can't hear very well and I couldn't understand people wearing masks and he very kindly took his mask off for me so I could understand him . I got most of what he was saying and OH filled me in with the rest. Really nice man.


When I had an MRI recently I wore a mask as usual and they got me to swap it for one they have without the metal strip over the nose, no metal anywhere allowed in the MRI room


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> That's ridiculous that he got out of his seat to tell her off because she told him to do his job. I am sure it is a very uncomfortable conversation for a bus driver to ask someone to wear a mask as I feel like some people do not take kindly to it. BUT it is necessary! Sometimes we have to be in uncomfortable situations. If people are not reminded/asked to wear a mask more and more people won't ): If there were signs in the bus saying to wear masks then I'd take his name or the registration of the bus and report it to the company. That's insanity.


She only asked him to play the recorded message that ''TFL expects passengers to wear a mask . . . .''. and yes, there is a notice next to the front door as you enter, and another one saying wear a mask and stay xx x distance away from other people (that's in the area for prams and wheelchairs). Why have a recorded message if you are not going to play it! But of course, the people at whom the message is directed are struck down with a mysterious deafness (maybe that's a side-effect of Covid?).and just sit riveted to their phones pretending not to hear it.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> When I had an MRI recently I wore a mask as usual and they got me to swap it for one they have without the metal strip over the nose, no metal anywhere allowed in the MRI room


Oh I never thought of that! The hospitals are good in that they provide masks if necessary.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> Oh I never thought of that! The hospitals are good in that they provide masks if necessary.


I usually take my own but the hospitals do provide them. Last year at the Birmingham hospital I go to insisted you wore their masks only and if someone came in with a similar mask they would make you change to theirs. I don't think they are so fussy now but I usually have their mask as they are still very strict on entry. There are people at the door taking temperatures, giving a splash of sanitiser and handing out a mask. Of the the three hospitals I'm dealing with, they are the strictest.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> When I had an MRI recently I wore a mask as usual and they got me to swap it for one they have without the metal strip over the nose, no metal anywhere allowed in the MRI room


Same, they say for no metal as you stated.


Siskin said:


> I usually take my own but the hospitals do provide them. Last year at the Birmingham hospital I go to insisted you wore their masks only and if someone came in with a similar mask they would make you change to theirs. I don't think they are so fussy now but I usually have their mask as they are still very strict on entry. There are people at the door taking temperatures, giving a splash of sanitiser and handing out a mask. Of the the three hospitals I'm dealing with, they are the strictest.


 Same here at hospitals. Prefer you to use their masks,and people at the door. I was told it's fairly universal but I could be wrong.


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> Same here at hospitals. Prefer you to use their masks,and people at the door. I was told it's fairly universal but I could be wrong.


I've been to two different hospitals. I walked in both of them without anyone checking if I'd used hand sanitiser or that I was even wearing a mask. One was dreadful and I felt more at risk of catching it there (or something else) than I do working where no one wears masks.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Same, they say for no metal as you stated.
> Same here at hospitals. Prefer you to use their masks,and people at the door. I was told it's fairly universal but I could be wrong.


When I went to the Cheltenham hospital for the MRI there was nobody at the door, I'm not even sure there was a sign for patients, did see one for staff to wear masks. No masks available on a table or anything and there were a couple of young men sat waiting and not wearing masks. The Gloucester hospital has notices up and a station for you to use hand wash and some masks. Whilst I was sat waiting my turn, a rather scary nurse came over and told a man to pull his mask up over his nose.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> a recorded playing won't get them to


 They act like it's for someone else. . . . but at least they could say they tried. Otherwise they may as well remove all the notices too.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> A few months back I was running and had done a hard effort 5k and when I finished I coughed twice into my gloved hand - I was called an f* c* by another runner. It was all I could do to not chase him down and give him a mouthful. Just awful. A lady walking nearby was very upset by it. I coughed because I'd run really hard.
> 
> I'm sick of it all, really.


That's horrible, I'm so sorry 
We've lost out minds...


----------



## kimthecat

Talking of masks , there are masks available with a clear front so you see the lips but I have only met one receptionist wearing one. a shame really as it makes a huge difference.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Talking of masks , there are masks available with a clear front so you see the lips but I have only met one receptionist wearing one. a shame really as it makes a huge difference.


That is such a shame.


----------



## Siskin

I found this chart showing an age demographic for positive tests. Although it says cotswolds, it's for the england 
It does seem to show that the huge spike is down to younger people then 60. I suspect it's more likely to be under 30's who seem less likely to be vaccinated and are mixing more in pubs and clubs as well as schools and colleges.


----------



## Siskin

Siskin said:


> I found this chart showing an age demographic for positive tests. Although it says cotswolds, it's for the england
> It does seem to show that the huge spike is down to younger people then 60. I suspect it's more likely to be under 30's who seem less likely to be vaccinated and are mixing more in pubs and clubs as well as schools and colleges.
> 
> View attachment 478325


Actually looking at this more closely and comparing it with another area I think this is just for the Cotswolds.


----------



## ForestWomble

Supposed to be seeing my parents next week, but am scared at the rise in cases, don't know what to do.


----------



## Jobeth

kimthecat said:


> Talking of masks , there are masks available with a clear front so you see the lips but I have only met one receptionist wearing one. a shame really as it makes a huge difference.


I have this one for if I'm working with a child that needs to see my face or has a hearing impairment: https://xula.co.uk/ I can wear a mask as a visitor but think this would have been a better option for teachers in school.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Supposed to be seeing my parents next week, but am scared at the rise in cases, don't know what to do.


Would picking up some free lateral flow tests from the chemist (or elsewhere) help put your mind at rest?

You could all do tests just before getting together.

OH's work have been doing LF tests and waiting for a negative result before letting anyone into the office.

Obviously, nothing's 100% but if you are all careful and avoid mixing with strangers in the run up, you should be able to rely on the results.

You can still follow sensible precautions when you're together too.

It's a balancing act between safety and well-being.


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Would picking up some free lateral flow tests from the chemist (or elsewhere) help put your mind at rest?
> 
> You could all do tests just before getting together.
> 
> OH's work have been doing LF tests and waiting for a negative result before letting anyone into the office.
> 
> Obviously, nothing's 100% but if you are all careful and avoid mixing with strangers in the run up, you should be able to rely on the results.
> 
> You can still follow sensible precautions when you're together too.
> 
> It's a balancing act between safety and well-being.


I got my daughter and fiancé to do this before they came to visit us, put my mind at rest
They are both back to work now in the office and fiancé is travelling about on public transport. He says it varies where he is in the country as to how much mask wearing is going on. In Scotland it was masks everywhere. In the north of England less so. They live in London and again it depends whereabouts you are as to mask wearing.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Lurcherlad said:


> Would picking up some free lateral flow tests from the chemist (or elsewhere) help put your mind at rest?
> 
> You could all do tests just before getting together.
> 
> OH's work have been doing LF tests and waiting for a negative result before letting anyone into the office.
> 
> Obviously, nothing's 100% but if you are all careful and avoid mixing with strangers in the run up, you should be able to rely on the results.
> 
> You can still follow sensible precautions when you're together too.
> 
> It's a balancing act between safety and well-being.


Yep, this is a good idea @ForestWomble . OHs sister does this with her family before they see their parents. All negative results so far, and gives them peace of mind


----------



## pinklizzy

I do LFTs 2-3 times a week for work but have also been able to order them online from the gov.uk website and they come really quickly, @ForestWomble this might be an option as doesn't involve having to go to pick them up anywhere?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Good shout @pinklizzy husband ordered some and they came really quickly (a pack of five). Postie looked concerned when he delivered them, though.

My Booster Arm was so sore last night but I feel okay, just tired. I think that could be from my arm though, as I woke up so many times with it.


----------



## ForestWomble

Thank you everyone, that would certainly help me feel safer.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Good shout @pinklizzy husband ordered some and they came really quickly (a pack of five). Postie looked concerned when he delivered them, though.
> 
> My Booster Arm was so sore last night but I feel okay, just tired. I think that could be from my arm though, as I woke up so many times with it.


I think a sore arm is one of the main side effects from Pfizer from what I've been reading, along with a headache which I had for about 12 hours or so. The sore arm and a lump at the injection site lasted about a day or so.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Siskin said:


> I think a sore arm is one of the main side effects from Pfizer from what I've been reading, along with a headache which I had for about 12 hours or so. The sore arm and a lump at the injection site lasted about a day or so.


Yes, I've had Pfizer for all three doses and the arm pain from the first dose was by far the worst (couldn't lie on it all all for over a fortnight). I was nauseous for several days with the first dose too - I'm starting to feel bit sick now with the booster. Second dose was by far the kindest of the three. I might need a little snooze now...


----------



## margy

Siskin said:


> I think a sore arm is one of the main side effects from Pfizer from what I've been reading, along with a headache which I had for about 12 hours or so. The sore arm and a lump at the injection site lasted about a day or so.


My sore arm lasted a week. I didn't have a headache or anything else.


----------



## kimthecat

Sorry to sound a numpty but what is plan B ? 

Its going to be a long winter , Im thinking ahead and planning an early summer holiday to keep my spirits up and looking at this years holiday photos.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Would picking up some free lateral flow tests from the chemist (or elsewhere) help put your mind at rest?
> 
> You could all do tests just before getting together.
> 
> OH's work have been doing LF tests and waiting for a negative result before letting anyone into the office.
> 
> Obviously, nothing's 100% but if you are all careful and avoid mixing with strangers in the run up, you should be able to rely on the results.
> 
> You can still follow sensible precautions when you're together too.
> 
> It's a balancing act between safety and well-being.





ForestWomble said:


> Thank you everyone, that would certainly help me feel safer.


We have just been to covid hotspot Pembrokeshire, with OH's mother, to visit his father and step mother.
We all did two tests the week before. the thinking was if one was wrong, the others probably wouldn't be. We also tested before coming home and will test again in two days time.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> but what is plan B ?


I have no idea; give us a nudge when you find out. Actually, just remind me: what was Plan A?


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> I have no idea; give us a nudge when you find out. Actually, just remind me: what was Plan A?


:Hilarious Erm , Plan A , lets see , it was , um , .....I dunno. :Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious Erm , Plan A , lets see , it was , um , .....I dunno. :Hilarious


 I hope they don't start banging on about Plan C . . . last year was bad enough, trying to work out where you could go and whom you could go with.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I hope they don't start banging on about Plan C . . . last year was bad enough, trying to work out where you could go and whom you could go with.


My family is abroad and I'm not fussed on seeing the in-laws, so I'm lucky to have an excuse


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I have an 11 hour round trip to see my family (small as it is) and I have to do it in a day due to Oscar, so it's been a great excuse for me too. 

On another Covid note, I see Ed Sheeran has Covid. Not that I am wishing it on anyone but I do wonder if famous people getting it might improve vaccination rates in the under 30s?


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I have an 11 hour round trip to see my family (small as it is) and I have to do it in a day due to Oscar, so it's been a great excuse for me too.
> 
> On another Covid note, I see Ed Sheeran has Covid. Not that I am wishing it on anyone but I do wonder if famous people getting it might improve vaccination rates in the under 30s?


I wonder if he is vaccinated


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> I wonder if he is vaccinated


I know it's choice but I hope so.

It does worry me that celebs, footballers etc aren't getting vaccinated. I know we don't know their history of their health and maybe it's a good idea for some not to be vaccinated. However, for many these are role models.

Only my opinion. If someone here hasn't been vaccinated then that's your choice and I do respect people's choice I just struggle and I guess it's my cognitive dissonance about some people not getting vaccinated


----------



## Blackadder

lullabydream said:


> Only my opinion. If someone here hasn't been vaccinated then that's your choice and I do respect people's choice I just struggle and I guess it's my cognitive dissonance about some people not getting vaccinated


It's not just you at all, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't get the vaccine but I do recognise their right to refuse & will defend to the end that choice.....no matter how foolish I think it is.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Absolutely @Blackadder the freedom to choose is vital.


----------



## MilleD

I've got a horrendous sore throat this morning


----------



## MilleD

Can anyone make head or tail of the eligibilty criteria for the booster? I was told to shield, but I'm not eligible for the booster. Doesn't seem to make any sense....


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> Can anyone make head or tail of the eligibilty criteria for the booster? I was told to shield, but I'm not eligible for the booster. Doesn't seem to make any sense....


At the moment it is over 50's and high risk people and it has to be 6 months after your second jab.
I can't book mine yet even though I'm an at risk person...it's just a case of waiting our turn I spose.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MilleD said:


> Can anyone make head or tail of the eligibilty criteria for the booster? I was told to shield, but I'm not eligible for the booster. Doesn't seem to make any sense....


The shielding criteria (as at the start of the pandemic) seems different to the list that's now available stating those at high risk of Covid complications (as it's now called, as opposed to clinically extremely vulnerable). It's this list that is being used as far as I know, which might explain it?


----------



## Calvine

''


Lurcherlad said:


> My family is abroad and I'm not fussed on seeing the in-laws, so I'm lucky to have an excuse


''Missing'' Christmas last year did not worry me one bit. All the headlines about ''Christmas cancelled'' and ''Christmas crisis'' just made me groan; but apparently the shops are already now selling piles of frozen turkeys. Probably not just turkeys either.


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> I've got a horrendous sore throat this morning


How are you now?


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> How are you now?


Wasn't good yesterday, was awake during the night so knackered when I got up. Went back to bed for a few hours. Luckily I work flexi time so as long as my manager is aware I can sort of do my hours whenever.

Bit better today, but still not much sleep. Managed to find some Strepsils though, mmmmm 

Thanks for asking x


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> ''
> ''Missing'' Christmas last year did not worry me one bit. All the headlines about ''Christmas cancelled'' and ''Christmas crisis'' just made me groan; but apparently the shops are already now selling piles of frozen turkeys. Probably not just turkeys either.


It wouldn't bother me really if I had to have cheese on toast for christmas dinner.

Until my sister pointed out there might not be cheese either, I freaked out then


----------



## lullabydream

Right am going out out on Saturday. Bagged free tickets to see a comedian so can't not go. 

Anxiety through the roof about 'mixing' and laughing lots. 

They recommend wearing masks


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> It wouldn't bother me really if I had to have cheese on toast for christmas dinner.
> 
> Until my sister pointed out there might not be cheese either, I freaked out then


Stock up on cheese Now!
I always have a few blocks of cheese in the veg drawer


----------



## Mrs Funkin

No cheese @MilleD ? NO CHEESE?

What is this madness of which you speak.

I don't care what we eat either**

** except if there's no cheese. Obv.


----------



## Magyarmum

You'll all have to emigrate ...... no shortage of cheese in Hungary!


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Right am going out out on Saturday. Bagged free tickets to see a comedian so can't not go.
> 
> Anxiety through the roof about 'mixing' and laughing lots.
> 
> They recommend wearing masks


Just follow all precautions and enjoy yourself


----------



## simplysardonic

Numbers are creeping up, I really wish they would bring back mandatory masks in shops & other indoor public spaces.


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> No cheese @MilleD ? NO CHEESE?
> 
> What is this madness of which you speak.
> 
> I don't care what we eat either**
> 
> ** except if there's no cheese. Obv.


I know right?! Catastrophe of the highest order.

Although it would prevent the cheese related fatness in January


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Haha! You're not wrong there @MilleD  I had a FB memory the other day which involved me asking if I was a mouse as there were 16 different kinds of cheese in my fridge.

Anyway. Back to the pandemic…


----------



## Siskin

Just heard that my eldest half sister has Covid acquired when in hospital. She’s 82, was in hospital due to breathing difficulties and no vaccinated unless she changed her mind over it. I don’t think there’s going to be a good outcome


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my eldest half sister has Covid acquired when in hospital. She's 82, was in hospital due to breathing difficulties and no vaccinated unless she changed her mind over it. I don't think there's going to be a good outcome


Oh dear..........how awful


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Oh dear..........how awful


It is. 
I'm in contact with her eldest daughter, she was the one that 'found' me a few years ago. Her mother seems resigned that her end is near, she recently became a Jehovah's Witness rather unexpectedly and has decided her eldest daughter is now beyond the pale and wants nothing to do with her, which is upsetting her dreadfully. Very sad all round.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh that is a horrid situation  So sorry to read that @Siskin


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my eldest half sister has Covid acquired when in hospital. She's 82, was in hospital due to breathing difficulties and no vaccinated unless she changed her mind over it. I don't think there's going to be a good outcome


I'm sorry to hear this .


----------



## simplysardonic

I'm so sorry to read that @Siskin


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> It wouldn't bother me really if I had to have cheese on toast for christmas dinner.
> 
> Until my sister pointed out there might not be cheese either, I freaked out then


There's always the moon, Gromit. Tesco will find a way. I hope. I love cheese on toast and would also happily scoff for Xmas dinner.

Hope you're feeling better this evening. Dequadin is good for throats - from the pharmacy if you feel you can go out or send someone.


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my eldest half sister has Covid acquired when in hospital. She's 82, was in hospital due to breathing difficulties and no vaccinated unless she changed her mind over it. I don't think there's going to be a good outcome


I am so very sorry, goodness you've been through a lot x


----------



## Siskin

Thanks all. 
I feel a bit separated from this as I’ve not become close to the new family, just feel so sad that my half sister is treating her eldest daughter so badly after her being the one the cared for her the most.


----------



## lullabydream

Oh sorry @Siskin terrible situation to be in.

If it's caught early they *might* be able to help

I do feel sorry for her daughter too, am sure you will talk to her and you can be there for each other


----------



## niamh123

Just watched my local Welsh news report Mark Drakeford has said if our numbers don't start to drop in the next few weeks he will be reintroducing some of the Covid rules that he relaxed a few months ago


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> It is.
> I'm in contact with her eldest daughter, she was the one that 'found' me a few years ago. Her mother seems resigned that her end is near, she recently became a Jehovah's Witness rather unexpectedly and has decided her eldest daughter is now beyond the pale and wants nothing to do with her, which is upsetting her dreadfully. Very sad all round.


I'm so sorry to hear the news. You've had so much to cope with already and now this!

My grandmother became a Jehovah's Witness at the same age, after being a staunch Methodist for all of her life. She lived with us for the last few years of her life and I well remember the effect the change of religion had on us as a family. Sadly, none of it positive.


----------



## Magyarmum

niamh123 said:


> Just watched my local Welsh news report Mark Drakeford has said if our numbers don't start to drop in the next few weeks he will be reintroducing some of the Covid rules that he relaxed a few months ago


We were told yesterday that from November 1st, wearing masks on public transport and municipal buildings will be mandatory. Employers have the right to ask all employees to be vaccinated. No more visiting patients in hospital except in exceptional circumstances.

The Mayors of the various municipalities also have the right to impose their own rules as they see fit, so I fully expect in my local town and city, mask wearing to be compulsory in shops and at public events like it was the last time.


----------



## Jaf

In Spain restrictions are still being relaxed. Masks still worn indoors, shops schools etc, but no masks outside if safe distance. My local town has the annual fair this weekend, cancelled last year. I'm going for a quick visit, always too busy and noisy for me. I'll be wearing a mask, will see what others do.


----------



## kimthecat

Had my booster jab today. Only had a to wait a few minutes. No side affects so far.


----------



## Psygon

@MilleD @MollySmith @Mrs Funkin @SbanR (and anyone I may have missed who was commenting on cheese).

A friend just posted this on Facebook and I thought you might like it :-D


----------



## MollySmith

Psygon said:


> @MilleD @MollySmith @Mrs Funkin @SbanR (and anyone I may have missed who was commenting on cheese).
> 
> A friend just posted this on Facebook and I thought you might like it :-D
> 
> View attachment 478612


:Brb I'm staring at some stilton... sshhhhh.......


----------



## willa

Dad has tested Positive for Covid . Feels like he has flu


----------



## MollySmith

willa said:


> Dad has tested Positive for Covid . Feels like he has flu


I am sorry, I hope he makes a speedy and safe recovery and you're okay.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh heck, so sorry to read that @willa I hope he recovers quickly.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Psygon said:


> @MilleD @MollySmith @Mrs Funkin @SbanR (and anyone I may have missed who was commenting on cheese).
> 
> A friend just posted this on Facebook and I thought you might like it :-D
> 
> View attachment 478612


If my husband gave me some Morbier or Forme d'Ambert he would DEFINITELY fascinate me. To be fair, how I feel today a Dairylea triangle would probably do 

Mmmmm. Cheeeeeeeese.


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> Dad has tested Positive for Covid . Feels like he has flu


Fingers crossed it will remain that way and he recovers quickly. Friends of mine had it, they are in their 60's and they were fine very quickly


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> If my husband gave me some Morbier or Forme d'Ambert he would DEFINITELY fascinate me. To be fair, how I feel today a Dairylea triangle would probably do
> 
> Mmmmm. Cheeeeeeeese.


today actually feels like all the cheesecake in the world won't save it. *weekly shop day and accounts reconciling*


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Dad has tested Positive for Covid . Feels like he has flu


A bit concerning. Does he know how he picked it up?


----------



## willa

rona said:


> A bit concerning. Does he know how he picked it up?


No. He has been in Kent playing golf for 2 days. Got back on on Wednesday evening, symptoms started last night . Tested negative thismorning, then positive tonight.

Yes it's very worrying as he has a heart condition, he is double vaccinated but so worrying


----------



## kimthecat

@willa Wishing your Dad a speedy recovery.


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> Dad has tested Positive for Covid . Feels like he has flu


Hope he gets well soon.


----------



## rona

Anyone else forget to register LFTs becuse they are negative?

I keep forgetting


----------



## 3dogs2cats

willa said:


> No. He has been in Kent playing golf for 2 days. Got back on on Wednesday evening, symptoms started last night . Tested negative thismorning, then positive tonight.
> 
> Yes it's very worrying as he has a heart condition, he is double vaccinated but so worrying


 Sorry the like is for support not that your dad has Covid, wishing him a speedy recovery very good news that he is double vaccinated as although he may still feel poorly he has the immunity to see it off fairly quickly.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

rona said:


> Anyone else forget to register LFTs becuse they are negative?
> 
> I keep forgetting


I do try to remember to register them but just registered todays test and realised i had missed out the one I did midweek. There does seem to be some confusion about registering negative tests, i have mentioned to a few people that I register my results and they are surprised and thought it was only for positives or if needed for work or entry to somewhere.


----------



## willa

Have to be honest here, we forgot to register Dad’s Positve LF result yesterday evening
Mum had been sent into a panic about the result & Dad was in bed. And I forgot to do it

He’ll get the PCR result back around 9am tomorrow morning. Fully expecting it to be Positive

He did another LF Test thismorning and it showed up as a clear Positive within a few seconds .( That one I did remember to register )


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Hope your dad is doing okay @willa


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So earlier today after parkrun, we went for breakfast. Whilst there we saw a couple of friends (we've seen them three or four times in Lockdown - all outside in the garden) who were going to the halloween party at our local sailing club tonight. When I got home I said to husband, "Shall we go? I need to start manning up and trying to just get on with things"...he said he was happy to go...so we umm'd and ahh'd and didn't go. I just couldn't.

Flipping heck. I need to get a grip and start trying to be normal. I'm annoying myself now at being so frightened of it.


----------



## rona

Mrs Funkin said:


> So earlier today after parkrun, we went for breakfast. Whilst there we saw a couple of friends (we've seen them three or four times in Lockdown - all outside in the garden) who were going to the halloween party at our local sailing club tonight. When I got home I said to husband, "Shall we go? I need to start manning up and trying to just get on with things"...he said he was happy to go...so we umm'd and ahh'd and didn't go. I just couldn't.
> 
> Flipping heck. I need to get a grip and start trying to be normal. I'm annoying myself now at being so frightened of it.


I still wouldn't do anything like that.
I have been in that lovely big cafe by the lifeboat station at Littlehampton and a rather spaced out smaller cafe near home. Just got back from Wales where I popped my toe into a few art/craft shops & cafes (wearing a mask) and santized my hands umpteen times.

Start small and build up, it's scary at the start but gets easier


----------



## Lurcherlad

I agree @rona … people at parties are likely to not be wearing masks and could be getting into close contact. Difficult to avoid if a friend lunges to give a hug etc.

Shops and cafes where you can wear a mask and preserve some space are easier to handle.

I've taken on making the sandwiches for the football club and thought it would be ok to just pop in and drop them off in the kitchen. Everyone would be standing outside watching the game and I could avoid close contact.

Except one of OH's long term pals who I hadn't seen for years spotted me and caught me for a double cheek kiss!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thanks @rona @Lurcherlad its so difficult, I do have some social life as we see two couples (separately) but a big part of our life was the sailing club. And now it's not which makes me sad. We aren't going to the dinner dance, nor the festive lunch, nor the Christmas lunch for where we live. I never go to my work party, so that's easy.

I know, first world problems and all that. "Oh woe is me, I don't feel safe enough to go out drinking and dancing". I'd quite like to, though


----------



## Lurcherlad

Once we get through this Winter (predicted to be a spike), I’m hoping things can properly start to return to normal …. most people jabbed and boostered and the much maligned herd immunity kicks in.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Yes, I sort of feel like come spring, after the flu season has done it’s thing too, I shall aim to get back to more normal goings on. I mean, what’s another few months really?


----------



## Magyarmum

Mrs Funkin said:


> Yes, I sort of feel like come spring, after the flu season has done it's thing too, I shall aim to get back to more normal goings on. I mean, what's another few months really?


We had a respite of around 3 months where life more or less got back to normal, But ..... as warned, the 4th wave is now hitting us and we're having to go back to wearing masks, social distancing et al.

I have to admit, having enjoyed the relative freedom I'm now finding it difficult to remember to put on a mask when I do my shopping but suppose I'll get used to it once more.

And if it carries on like this and they put restrictions on travel my chances of seeing my family within the foreseeable future are nil, which soon will make it 3 years since the last time I saw them

Such is life, woe is me ....and all that!


----------



## rona

I worked out this morning with stark realisation, what worries me most, and it's kids. Virtually all mass outbreaks here seem to be schools or colleges.

Was swimming this morning, I go early because they have lane swimming where everyone has to stick to the same route around a third of the pool and it's divided into slow,medium and fast lanes. I'm usually in the medium lane. 
Despite there being several family swims today and us early morning people limited to just a hour and half. Some bloke came in with a young child of about 11-12, so not vaccinated and jumped straight in my lane..............I moved, as did everyone else.
I won't go into anywhere with kids and if I pass close while out, I hold my breath until they are behind me.

Is that over the top?

I don't care, they are the main risk


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> And if it carries on like this and they put restrictions on travel my chances of seeing my family within the foreseeable future are nil, which soon will make it 3 years since the last time I saw them


In these times, you have to snatch your chances...........


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I worked out this morning with stark realisation, what worries me most, and it's kids. Virtually all mass outbreaks here seem to be schools or colleges.
> 
> Was swimming this morning, I go early because they have lane swimming where everyone has to stick to the same route around a third of the pool and it's divided into slow,medium and fast lanes. I'm usually in the medium lane.
> Despite there being several family swims today and us early morning people limited to just a hour and half. Some bloke came in with a young child of about 11-12, so not vaccinated and jumped straight in my lane..............I moved, as did everyone else.
> I won't go into anywhere with kids and if I pass close while out, I hold my breath until they are behind me.
> 
> Is that over the top?
> 
> I don't care, they are the main risk


My friends DIL and 8 year old granddaughter currently have Covid. The only way the granddaughter knew she had it was that her mum tested her daily as the school has requested the pupils to do, she has no symptoms whatsoever and feels perfectly well. So I'm not surprised that children are spreading it around to others if many are like this 8 year old. So yes, I avoid kids too


----------



## Lurcherlad

Apparently, Covid can be deactivated in swimming pools within a few seconds so it should be fairly safe while in the water, I guess.

Still have to mix in the changing rooms etc.

Fortunately, it’s usually just us older adults when I swim or do aquafit.

I assume everyone is a potential risk really (without getting OTT) and set my own boundaries as much as possible.

Having taken over responsibility for running the football club’s cafe on a Saturday morning, I don’t allow anyone inside the building and instead serve via a window over a wide counter. There is cover outside set back so any people congregating are well away from us. When it gets colder we might get requests to come inside but I’ll hold fast


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> I won't go into anywhere with kids and if I pass close while out, I hold my breath until they are behind me.
> 
> Is that over the top?
> 
> I don't care, they are the main risk


Younger children do have a smaller viral load but tend to cough, sneeze and splutter over you without thinking. I have no choice but it's the time of year they have the usual colds/coughs so a good idea if you can.


----------



## willa

Dad’s PCR was Positive unsurprisingly.

Thank goodness for the vaccine, He has a high temp and flu symptoms. But we think would have been a lot worse had he not been vaccinated.

I’ve got yet another sinus cold coming on & with Dad it’s making me feel on edge. But still Negative


----------



## Lurcherlad

@willa hope dad's feeling better soon and your cold doesn't get any worse.


----------



## SbanR

@willa hope your dad recovers quickly and your cold isn't too bad


----------



## Jesthar

Lurcherlad said:


> and the much maligned herd immunity kicks in.


To be fair, herd immunity itself has never been maligned, only the initial approach that The Powers That Be seemed to want to take to achive it (which was basically 'let it spread unchecked and take the casualties on the chin'').

Herd immunity is always the goal with any widely transmissible diseases, but achieving it via vaccine is far more humane


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> I still wouldn't do anything like that.
> I have been in that lovely big cafe by the lifeboat station at Littlehampton and a rather spaced out smaller cafe near home. Just got back from Wales where I popped my toe into a few art/craft shops & cafes (wearing a mask) and santized my hands umpteen times.
> 
> Start small and build up, it's scary at the start but gets easier


OT Did you get to see any houses for sale in Wales. ?


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> OT Did you get to see any houses for sale in Wales. ?


Didn't go to the part I want to live. Pembrokeshire isn't my dream.........


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> So earlier today after parkrun, we went for breakfast. Whilst there we saw a couple of friends (we've seen them three or four times in Lockdown - all outside in the garden) who were going to the halloween party at our local sailing club tonight. When I got home I said to husband, "Shall we go? I need to start manning up and trying to just get on with things"...he said he was happy to go...so we umm'd and ahh'd and didn't go. I just couldn't.
> 
> Flipping heck. I need to get a grip and start trying to be normal. I'm annoying myself now at being so frightened of it.


You don't _need_ to to anything.

I've been invited to a few dos and my area has been placed in an Emergency Response Zone (not actually sure what it means but we may be back to bubbles soon) and it's a sober reminder of the fact we're in a pandemic. Even in Cornwall I didn't go to a pub. We did a farm shop, sat outside with Molly with a coffee. The only thing I went inside for was an art gallery and a few shops that asked for masks to be worn.

Maybe it'll be a help to set out what you feel okay with? I had to do this for my business so I had to focus, as clients want to meet in person especially since July. My tolerances are okay in outside spaces but not okay inside with folk not necessary wearing masks. I think there's too much on people with vaccine getting it and being a bit poorly but that's not necessarily the case as we all know.

It's what you'd like to do and how you feel.

Peer pressure or FOMO just isn't at all on my mind during this time. I subscribe to JOMO (joy of missing out) thought I do agree, it's wearing a bit thin. I'm going to book in a few dog walks in a field with Molly and try to find a coffee place nearby to keep myself feeling somewhat social.. though I realise I'm going out with the dog not a human being.... oh well!


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> So earlier today after parkrun, we went for breakfast. Whilst there we saw a couple of friends (we've seen them three or four times in Lockdown - all outside in the garden) who were going to the halloween party at our local sailing club tonight. When I got home I said to husband, "Shall we go? I need to start manning up and trying to just get on with things"...he said he was happy to go...so we umm'd and ahh'd and didn't go. I just couldn't.
> 
> Flipping heck. I need to get a grip and start trying to be normal. I'm annoying myself now at being so frightened of it.


Am the same, I don't want to do anything which involves mixing with unknown people however I broke that this weekend. I wasn't knocking the chance of seeing a comedian for free, had complimentary tickets. Then my friend wanted me to help her at a kids party. Well be her plus one, so she didn't have to worry too much over her two children; one is really out going the other not that much. The children really enjoyed the party so that was good.
My problem with the comedian was the place was packed. We presumed with free tickets it wouldn't be too bad. But no packed.
Leaving was horrendous. 
When we booked tickets all the COVID blurb was on the website but it really left you feeling unsafe, as guessing it's not law anymore people can ignore and they do.


----------



## Boxer123

MollySmith said:


> You don't _need_ to to anything.
> 
> I've been invited to a few dos and my area has been placed in an Emergency Response Zone (not actually sure what it means but we may be back to bubbles soon) and it's a sober reminder of the fact we're in a pandemic. Even in Cornwall I didn't go to a pub. We did a farm shop, sat outside with Molly with a coffee. The only thing I went inside for was an art gallery and a few shops that asked for masks to be worn.
> 
> Maybe it'll be a help to set out what you feel okay with? I had to do this for my business so I had to focus, as clients want to meet in person especially since July. My tolerances are okay in outside spaces but not okay inside with folk not necessary wearing masks. I think there's too much on people with vaccine getting it and being a bit poorly but that's not necessarily the case as we all know.
> 
> It's what you'd like to do and how you feel.
> 
> Peer pressure or FOMO just isn't at all on my mind during this time. I subscribe to JOMO (joy of missing out) thought I do agree, it's wearing a bit thin. I'm going to book in a few dog walks in a field with Molly and try to find a coffee place nearby to keep myself feeling somewhat social.. though I realise I'm going out with the dog not a human being.... oh well!


Love that joy of missing out I shall look at it like that from now on  @Mrs Funkin ive been to the pub for lunch a few times but wouldn't be wanting to go to a party. Being a medical professional you probably have a better understanding of what's happening. Just have your own party with Oscar.


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> Am the same, I don't want to do anything which involves mixing with unknown people however I broke that this weekend. I wasn't knocking the chance of seeing a comedian for free, had complimentary tickets. Then my friend wanted me to help her at a kids party. Well be her plus one, so she didn't have to worry too much over her two children; one is really out going the other not that much. The children really enjoyed the party so that was good.
> My problem with the comedian was the place was packed. We presumed with free tickets it wouldn't be too bad. But no packed.
> Leaving was horrendous.
> When we booked tickets all the COVID blurb was on the website but it really left you feeling unsafe, as guessing it's not law anymore people can ignore and they do.


Are you testing this week?


----------



## StormyThai

Last week pretty much all of our local Lidl and Aldi staff had stopped wearing their masks...I was very happy to see that this week it is the opposite, all bar 2 staff members in Aldi were wearing their masks out on the shop floor and most of the customers were too...I felt much safer!
I'm still wary with dad popping up at the end of this week, but I have missed him so much!!! We are going to a pub for lunch but it is a very safe pub with outside heated huts for individual tables or an outside marquee with covid safe measures...probably the safest that I have seen at the moment so here is hoping I don't regret it!


----------



## Lurcherlad

If you follow all possible precautions @StormyThai, then the risk should be tiny compared to the massive benefit of spending time together… Hope you have a lovely time


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Are you testing this week?


Yes we are. As I don't want to mix and be asymptomatic


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Ppfftttt. Apparently we aren’t going to be given the big boxes of lateral flow tests from the hospital any longer. We have to apply for the boxes of five, which is rather annoying as they want us to continue testing twice weekly. Pain in the posterior, quite frankly. All that will happen is people won’t test as often now :/


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ppfftttt. Apparently we aren't going to be given the big boxes of lateral flow tests from the hospital any longer. We have to apply for the boxes of five, which is rather annoying as they want us to continue testing twice weekly. Pain in the posterior, quite frankly. All that will happen is people won't test as often now :/


Did they give a reason? If a system works why meddle with it?


----------



## pinklizzy

I'm finding the fact that I'm not lateral flow testing for 90 days worse than when I was doing it twice weekly, it's much more stressful!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Sadly not @Cully - we only found out because someone in my department went to get a new box of them. Ah well. I can do nothing.

@pinklizzy who'd think you miss sticking a swab up your nose? Hope you are feeling fully recovered now.

@willa I hope your Dad is doing okay.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Sadly not @Cully - we only found out because someone in my department went to get a new box of them. Ah well. I can do nothing.


That'll be the red tape which covers everything 'they' don't want to or can't explain. Very helpful:Banghead.


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> That'll be the red tape which covers everything 'they' don't want to or can't explain. Very helpful:Banghead.


Red tape or something similar seems to have invaded the volunteer stewards at vaccination sites. My SIL has been volunteering as a steward since the start of vaccinations and has enjoyed the experience as they were a happy bunch and people going for their vaccines were relieved to be doing so. Recently there has been a change in the leadership and this chap seems to be not only changing the working practices, but putting everyone's back up. She kept going for as long as possible then thought what was the point of not wanting to go in and feeling miserable when there, so she's given up


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ppfftttt. Apparently we aren't going to be given the big boxes of lateral flow tests from the hospital any longer. We have to apply for the boxes of five, which is rather annoying as they want us to continue testing twice weekly. Pain in the posterior, quite frankly. All that will happen is people won't test as often now :/


The more I hear of what's happening lately ......... the less safe I feel.

I hope all you have to do is apply. They aren't making you pay for them are they? (They better not be!)


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Ppfftttt. Apparently we aren't going to be given the big boxes of lateral flow tests from the hospital any longer. We have to apply for the boxes of five, which is rather annoying as they want us to continue testing twice weekly. Pain in the posterior, quite frankly. All that will happen is people won't test as often now :/


I'm sure there are 7 in the boxes you get sent.

Not a lot but slightly better than 5 

A man came round from the county council the other day handing out boxes.


----------



## Jobeth

I have to test twice weekly and just order them online. They usually arrive the next day. At the moment they are free but there was a rumour they might start charging for them next year.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxer123 said:


> Love that joy of missing out I shall look at it like that from now on  @Mrs Funkin ive been to the pub for lunch a few times but wouldn't be wanting to go to a party. Being a medical professional you probably have a better understanding of what's happening. Just have your own party with Oscar.


More time on PF, I meant what's not to like!


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> Last week pretty much all of our local Lidl and Aldi staff had stopped wearing their masks...I was very happy to see that this week it is the opposite, all bar 2 staff members in Aldi were wearing their masks out on the shop floor and most of the customers were too...I felt much safer!
> I'm still wary with dad popping up at the end of this week, but I have missed him so much!!! We are going to a pub for lunch but it is a very safe pub with outside heated huts for individual tables or an outside marquee with covid safe measures...probably the safest that I have seen at the moment so here is hoping I don't regret it!


oh I'm feeling excited for you and Dad Stormy Thai. I hope you both have a lovely time and you both seem to be so sensible about this.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MilleD said:


> I'm sure there are 7 in the boxes you get sent.
> 
> Not a lot but slightly better than 5
> 
> A man came round from the county council the other day handing out boxes.


Oh good (there were only five in the box husband ordered)  That'll save me a week...

If we have to start paying @Jobeth methinks the LF testing rates will drop even further.


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> Red tape or something similar seems to have invaded the volunteer stewards at vaccination sites. My SIL has been volunteering as a steward since the start of vaccinations and has enjoyed the experience as they were a happy bunch and people going for their vaccines were relieved to be doing so. Recently there has been a change in the leadership and this chap seems to be not only changing the working practices, but putting everyone's back up. She kept going for as long as possible then thought what was the point of not wanting to go in and feeling miserable when there, so she's given up


That's so sad


----------



## Ellierose1

SbanR said:


> That's so sad


hello, how are you? hugs


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh good (there were only five in the box husband ordered)  That'll save me a week...
> 
> If we have to start paying @Jobeth methinks the LF testing rates will drop even further.


And as usual, it will be those on the breadline who suffer the most. With a family to feed there's no contest.


----------



## catz4m8z

willa said:


> Thank goodness for the vaccine, He has a high temp and flu symptoms. But we think would have been a lot worse had he not been vaccinated.


Had the same thoughts when my Dad got covid. He also had the flu/high temp symptoms and like me also had trouble breathing, in fact he has been left with much lower exercise tolerance afterwards....but without that vaccine it def could of been much worse.
Personally Im not missing the going out or party aspect, in fact as an introvert this level of social isolation is bliss for me! Although it must be difficult if you are normally an outgoing person.

Got my booster done yesterday (the nurse said I had the longest gap between doses she had seen so far!:Shy). So I had a horrible nights sleep as it seems to give me '24hr flu' afterwards!


----------



## SbanR

For anyone interested Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on BBC news tomorrow morning at 8.30 to update on the latest Covid situation and answer viewers questions. @MilleD I think you like him?


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> For anyone interested Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on BBC news tomorrow morning at 8.30 to update on the latest Covid situation and answer viewers questions. @MilleD I think you like him?


Thanks. I do like him. For me he's been one of the better speakers during all of this.

And he has a cool name


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> For anyone interested Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on BBC news tomorrow morning at 8.30 to update on the latest Covid situation and answer viewers questions. @MilleD I think you like him?


Great, now we might get some sensible up to date info and advice


----------



## Cully

How long do I need to wait before I can book my covid booster? I heard on the news the other day you don't have to wait the full 6 months now as they are keen to get everyones booster done. Did I hear wrong?
My 2nd jab was on 6th May so it's 180 days ago today.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> How long do I need to wait before I can book my covid booster? I heard on the news the other day you don't have to wait the full 6 months now as they are keen to get everyones booster done. Did I hear wrong?
> My 2nd jab was on 6th May so it's 180 days ago today.


In 4 days it'll be the 6 months so, I don't know for certain, but I would imagine you could now.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Cully said:


> How long do I need to wait before I can book my covid booster? I heard on the news the other day you don't have to wait the full 6 months now as they are keen to get everyones booster done. Did I hear wrong?
> My 2nd jab was on 6th May so it's 180 days ago today.


On the NHS covid booster booking site it says anyone who meets the criteria for having a booster and had their second jab 190 days ago can book, so currently it still looks like they are working to the 6 months rule. Could you still book now but for 10 days time when you will have met the 190 requirement? Surely not many people are being offered next day appointments anyway, I`m sure my sister had a two week wait for her appointment but that may have been logistics of how far she was able to travel rather than no slots available at all for several days.


----------



## Mum2Heidi

Cully said:


> How long do I need to wait before I can book my covid booster? I heard on the news the other day you don't have to wait the full 6 months now as they are keen to get everyones booster done. Did I hear wrong?
> My 2nd jab was on 6th May so it's 180 days ago today.


Initially I thought they were reducing the gap between 2nd jab and boosters. Then I understood it to be you can book an appointment after 5 months to have it at 6 months. To ensure more get it on time. I could be wrong. Not sure it even happened.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> How long do I need to wait before I can book my covid booster? I heard on the news the other day you don't have to wait the full 6 months now as they are keen to get everyones booster done. Did I hear wrong?
> My 2nd jab was on 6th May so it's 180 days ago today.


I was only told I was eligible last week. Before then I'd checked on the website whether I was eligible and it said no.

But my eligibility is based on being vulnerable rather than age.

I had my second jab on 23rd April.

Last I read for age was 6 months and one day.


----------



## Cully

Thanks @ForestWomble ,@3dogs2cats ,@MilleD and @Mum2Heidi .
I tried to book today but was told I can't book in advance, even if it means I may then be a week or so late, depending on available appointments, sigh! The guy I spoke to hadn't heard of being able to book sooner, although admitted they weren't up to date with guidelines. No s*** Sherlock!
I thought the idea was to get the boosters done before the effect of the 1st and 2nd jabs begin to wane, to prevent us getting really ill if we catch covid.
I was really hoping to get booked in for next Wednesday as I have an untrasound and bloods that day at a hospital just a few minutes away from my vaccination hub. Now I'll have to risk another journey that could have been avoided if the left hand knew what the right hand was doing. Oh well.


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I was only told I was eligible last week. Before then I'd checked on the website whether I was eligible and it said no.
> 
> But my eligibility is based on being vulnerable rather than age.
> 
> I had my second jab on 23rd April.
> 
> Last I read for age was 6 months and one day.


It's so frustrating. I'm age not vulnerable.

I won't get mine for a while but I was vulnerable when they added more people to that list last year. I'm still waiting for flu as they've run out of vaccines. All my immediate family are boosted or booked very soon.


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> Thanks @ForestWomble ,@3dogs2cats ,@MilleD and @Mum2Heidi .
> I tried to book today but was told I can't book in advance, even if it means I may then be a week or so late, depending on available appointments, sigh! The guy I spoke to hadn't heard of being able to book sooner, although admitted they weren't up to date with guidelines. No s*** Sherlock!
> I thought the idea was to get the boosters done before the effect of the 1st and 2nd jabs begin to wane, to prevent us getting really ill if we catch covid.
> I was really hoping to get booked in for next Wednesday as I have an untrasound and bloods that day at a hospital just a few minutes away from my vaccination hub. Now I'll have to risk another journey that could have been avoided if the left hand knew what the right hand was doing. Oh well.


Is there any way of checking if that vaccination hub operates on a "drop in" basis ( ring and ask?). My town hub does


----------



## Siskin

I was told there are drop in hubs operating. One I know about is in Milton Keynes


----------



## Jobeth

MollySmith said:


> It's so frustrating. I'm age not vulnerable.
> 
> I won't get mine for a while but I was vulnerable when they added more people to that list last year. I'm still waiting for flu as they've run out of vaccines. All my immediate family are boosted or booked very soon.


My brother in law should get one from work but it was quicker to get it from Boots. I've got mine at my GP tomorrow. I had to wait as they had run out by the time I rang the last time they sent a text to offer it to me.


----------



## mrs phas

Had my booster today, 
so that's flu and covid done
and 
I am taking high strength vitC and zinc tablets, alongside my prescribed vitd3 that I've been on since chemo, 
just to keep my immune system (or lack of) boosted this winter


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> Had my booster today,
> so that's flu and covid done
> and
> I am taking high strength vitC and zinc tablets, alongside my prescribed vitd3 that I've been on since chemo,
> just to keep my immune system (or lack of) boosted this winter


I've started on vit C and zinc, already take vit D and B12


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> Is there any way of checking if that vaccination hub operates on a "drop in" basis ( ring and ask?). My town hub does


The hub I use is in town (ex Debenhams) and a few friends have been able to have their booster on spec, whilst shopping etc but no direct phone line to book
The thing is that now I'm scooterless I don't want to risk making the trip if I get turned away. So perhaps best if I wait until I'm 190 days.
I'd be spitting mad if I went to all that effort, and it is an effort with my fibromyalgia, only to not be able to be jabbed. Plus I'm loathe to unnecessarily put myself at further risk on a bus where a lot of people have abandoned wearing masks.


----------



## rona

SbanR said:


> For anyone interested Professor Jonathan Van Tam will be on BBC news tomorrow morning at 8.30 to update on the latest Covid situation and answer viewers questions. @MilleD I think you like him?


DON'T FORGET


----------



## MilleD

My sister has tested positive for Covid. First person in my inner circle really.

Lateral flows negative, PCR positive which is interesting.

I'm going round in a bit to throw some decent D3 and B12 through her window


----------



## SbanR

Cully said:


> The hub I use is in town (ex Debenhams) and a few friends have been able to have their booster on spec, whilst shopping etc but no direct phone line to book
> The thing is that now I'm scooterless I don't want to risk making the trip if I get turned away. So perhaps best if I wait until I'm 190 days.
> I'd be spitting mad if I went to all that effort, and it is an effort with my fibromyalgia, only to not be able to be jabbed. Plus I'm loathe to unnecessarily put myself at further risk on a bus where a lot of people have abandoned wearing masks.


Ok. Best to wait that extra few days to be on the safe side.



rona said:


> DON'T FORGET


I did miss the first 5 mins but I've got it on record so will watch later



MilleD said:


> My sister has tested positive for Covid. First person in my inner circle really.
> 
> Lateral flows negative, PCR positive which is interesting.
> 
> I'm going round in a bit to throw some decent D3 and B12 through her window


Add zinc to that list! I think it helps boost the immune system. I always take it every winter


----------



## Cully

rona said:


> DON'T FORGET


Watched and recorded it, in case I missed anything. I like JVT, he has a way about him that makes you trust what he says.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I'm going round in a bit to throw some decent D3 and B12 through her window


Is that to make sure she gets enough ventilation too?
My son and nephew have both had it. I expect most of us by now have someone close who has had it. Good wishes to her and I hope she doesn't have it too bad .


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> Add zinc to that list! I think it helps boost the immune system. I always take it every winter


I told her about zinc, I don't have any in though.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Is that to make sure she gets enough ventilation too?


Ha ha, good point!

Her dog came running out like she always does with a toy to give me and I remembered at the last minute not to touch her. She looked at me really hurt


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> I told her about zinc, I don't have any in though.


Best to get a bottle in for yourself


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> Ha ha, good point!
> 
> Her dog came running out like she always does with a toy to give me and I remembered at the last minute not to touch her. She looked at me really hurt


Aw, I'm sure you're forgiven bless her.


----------



## Siskin

Went to see the consultant this afternoon to see what will be done about the broken leg and the failed metal work. A decision has been made that he will remove the screws that have failed and replace with more robust ones and further up the leg midway between the break and the end of the femur, he will put two strong bolts across. The infected area on the knee is behaving enough in that it hasn’t infected the bone (yet), so he will incise it and give the area a good wash out. 
The next question was when he can do it all as it is regarded as urgent. It seems the hospital is bunged up with Covid patients all of who are unvaccinated and there is next to no bed availability for urgent surgery like mine, he has other patients who also require urgent surgery. I’ve been put on his urgent list with the bed manager and have had an MRSA test and now I sit at home and wait.
All this is due to these stupid people who won’t get vaccinated for some reason (not those who can’t for medical reasons). The consultant was so incensed and cross that I worried about his blood pressure.


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Went to see the consultant this afternoon to see what will be done about the broken leg and the failed metal work. A decision has been made that he will remove the screws that have failed and replace with more robust ones and further up the leg midway between the break and the end of the femur, he will put two strong bolts across. The infected area on the knee is behaving enough in that it hasn't infected the bone (yet), so he will incise it and give the area a good wash out.
> The next question was when he can do it all as it is regarded as urgent. It seems the hospital is bunged up with Covid patients all of who are unvaccinated and there is next to no bed availability for urgent surgery like mine, he has other patients who also require urgent surgery. I've been put on his urgent list with the bed manager and have had an MRSA test and now I sit at home and wait.
> All this is due to these stupid people who won't get vaccinated for some reason (not those who can't for medical reasons). The consultant was so incensed and cross that I worried about his blood pressure.


I had a visit by paramedics a few weeks ago, I was fine. The paramedics were pretty much complaining about those who aren't vaccinated by choice and still don't believe about COVID, even when they catch it and are admitted to hospital. So sad.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> I had a visit by paramedics a few weeks ago, I was fine. The paramedics were pretty much complaining about those who aren't vaccinated by choice and still don't believe about COVID, even when they catch it and are admitted to hospital. So sad.


And then they expect the NHS to make them better again


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> I had a visit by paramedics a few weeks ago, I was fine. The paramedics were pretty much complaining about those who aren't vaccinated by choice and still don't believe about COVID, even when they catch it and are admitted to hospital. So sad.


What on earth do they think it is then? The mind boggles!


----------



## lullabydream

Cully said:


> What on earth do they think it is then? The mind boggles!


Flu am guessing, who knows!


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> My sister has tested positive for Covid. First person in my inner circle really.
> 
> Lateral flows negative, PCR positive which is interesting.
> 
> I'm going round in a bit to throw some decent D3 and B12 through her window


Hope she's not too poorly.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Oh @Siskin, that all sounds so horrible for you with your leg 

I really hope you can get in and sorted out ASAP.

It does make me cross that those beds could have been available to you and others like you with serious issues, had people taken the jab.


----------



## pinklizzy

Hope everyone who's poorly is feeling better really soon.
I ended up having to be taken in by ambulance today with chest pain and shortness of breath, felt very guilty about taking up NHS resources and all the staff were working so so hard!


----------



## Jesthar

pinklizzy said:


> Hope everyone who's poorly is feeling better really soon.
> I ended up having to be taken in by ambulance today with chest pain and shortness of breath, felt very guilty about taking up NHS resources and all the staff were working so so hard!


As someone with two NHS doctors in the family, may I say on their behalf: NEVER feel guilty about taking up NHS resources you genuinely need. That's what they are there for, and they would hate for you to deny yourself help when that is what they are there to give you, and WANT to give you.

It's the lead swingers and the ones who cry wolf who should feel guilty, but they, of course, never do...

I hope you feel better quickly


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> I've started on vit C and zinc, already take vit D and B12


I should've said I take b12 too 
It's surprising I don't rattle


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> I should've said I take b12 too
> It's surprising I don't rattle


I've been on the B12 for some time and should also be rattling


----------



## Cully

pinklizzy said:


> Hope everyone who's poorly is feeling better really soon.
> I ended up having to be taken in by ambulance today with chest pain and shortness of breath, felt very guilty about taking up NHS resources and all the staff were working so so hard!


Don't like for you being taken ill, but for you bringing attention to those who shouldn't be taking up precious bed spaces.
You have absolutely no need to feel guilty and I hope you are feeling better.


----------



## willa

MilleD said:


> My sister has tested positive for Covid. First person in my inner circle really.
> 
> Lateral flows negative, PCR positive which is interesting.
> 
> I'm going round in a bit to throw some decent D3 and B12 through her window


How is she doing ?


----------



## Magyarmum

I had a message this morning from our trainer saying he was sick with flu like symptoms which makes me wonder whether he's contracted the virus. He is double vaccinated, but I know last weekend he was at a rally in Budapest where he might have become infected. 

The last time we went to training was 8 days ago and as I definitely don't have any symptoms or even feel slightly under the weather, think I'm OK. To be on the safe side though I don't plan to go out until next Monday.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh goodness @pinklizzy I hope you're okay.

Also hoping that @MilleD 's sister and @willa 's dad are okay too.

I look forward (not) to losing more staff when the government try to enforce vaccinations for NHS staff. I do wish that every staff member would be vaccinated but I feel so uneasy about compulsory vaccination. We are all about patient choice and informed consent - our patients are allowed to decline any treatment they wish to but this removes our choice just because we work for the NHS? It doesn't sit well with me as a concept.


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh goodness @pinklizzy I hope you're okay.
> 
> Also hoping that @MilleD 's sister and @willa 's dad are okay too.
> 
> I look forward (not) to losing more staff when the government try to enforce vaccinations for NHS staff. I do wish that every staff member would be vaccinated but I feel so uneasy about compulsory vaccination. We are all about patient choice and informed consent - our patients are allowed to decline any treatment they wish to but this removes our choice just because we work for the NHS? It doesn't sit well with me as a concept.


My consultant was telling me that the consultant anaesthetist is not vaccinated and has now come down with Covid, he was furious about that too. What worries me is how many vulnerable patients the anaesthetist could have infected with Covid before he showed symptoms or tested


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I can see how he is cross about it @Siskin - it makes me cross too, particularly as a consultant who we would look to to set an example of best practice to more junior staff. I do wonder about the confidentiality aspect of him telling patients about it though. Eek!


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> I can see how he is cross about it @Siskin - it makes me cross too, particularly as a consultant who we would look to to set an example of best practice to more junior staff. I do wonder about the confidentiality aspect of him telling patients about it though. Eek!


He was so cross that he couldn't get me in to perform a short but urgent operation that he was almost at explosion point, probably shouldn't have said it but he was just so furious about unvaccinated Covid patients taking all the beds


----------



## stuaz

Cully said:


> What on earth do they think it is then? The mind boggles!


The first lockdown was very hard on a friend of mine, he really struggled with the isolation and he began drifting away from our friendship group. He found solace in various groups who campaigned for no lockdowns, etc and then when the vaccine was available for him he chose not to take it as "it was part of the governments plan to control us". I firmly believe he was brainwashed by the groups he chose to surround himself with and they took advantage of his fragile mental state.

A few months back he caught covid19, and ended up in hospital and finally on a ventilator.

He never came off the ventilator.

His last message in our friendship group chat was "I will get better as I know it's not covid19". To the very end he believed it wasn't covid19.

It was covid19, and he never got better.


----------



## lullabydream

stuaz said:


> The first lockdown was very hard on a friend of mine, he really struggled with the isolation and he began drifting away from our friendship group. He found solace in various groups who campaigned for no lockdowns, etc and then when the vaccine was available for him he chose not to take it as "it was part of the governments plan to control us". I firmly believe he was brainwashed by the groups he chose to surround himself with and they took advantage of his fragile mental state.
> 
> A few months back he caught covid19, and ended up in hospital and finally on a ventilator.
> 
> He never came off the ventilator.
> 
> His last message in our friendship group chat was "I will get better as I know it's not covid19". To the very end he believed it wasn't covid19.
> 
> It was covid19, and he never got better.


Liked for the explanation, but he won't be the only one and sorry for your loss


----------



## Siskin

stuaz said:


> The first lockdown was very hard on a friend of mine, he really struggled with the isolation and he began drifting away from our friendship group. He found solace in various groups who campaigned for no lockdowns, etc and then when the vaccine was available for him he chose not to take it as "it was part of the governments plan to control us". I firmly believe he was brainwashed by the groups he chose to surround himself with and they took advantage of his fragile mental state.
> 
> A few months back he caught covid19, and ended up in hospital and finally on a ventilator.
> 
> He never came off the ventilator.
> 
> His last message in our friendship group chat was "I will get better as I know it's not covid19". To the very end he believed it wasn't covid19.
> 
> It was covid19, and he never got better.


What an incredibly sad story. It's so strange that he couldn't admit he had Covid, sadly it took him anyway.


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> How is she doing ?


She just feels like she's got a really bad cold. She says she isn't really coughing much, it's more the proper cold symptoms.


----------



## pinklizzy

Thank you @Jesthar @Cully and @Mrs Funkin I'm feeling a lot better with some different medications, just think that going back to work wiped me out a bit.
It's so hard not to feel a sense of guilt about it, even though I've had my vaccinations and had be careful I still feel really silly that I managed to be exposed. 
Really hope they are able to get your surgery booked in soon @Siskin.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Very sad @stuaz 

Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Jobeth

If you are over 50 then it is letting you book online earlier than the 190 days.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just popped to post the same thing @Jobeth here's the link on the beeb if anyone wants to read it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59181370

Hope you got your booster sorted @Cully


----------



## Lurcherlad

Jobeth said:


> If you are over 50 then it is letting you book online earlier than the 190 days.


The system wouldn't let me the other day when I tried, but they must have just tweaked the system to speed up the process and avoid delay.

I tried again last night after you posted this and am booked for 1st Dec … my 6 months is up 30th Nov…. Perfick!


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> The system wouldn't let me the other day when I tried, but they must have just tweaked the system to speed up the process and avoid delay.
> 
> I tried again last night after you posted this and am booked for 1st Dec … my 6 months is up 30th Nov…. Perfick!


Yesterday it was announced that we no longer have to make an appointment to book a Covid vaccination, irrespective of whether it's the 1st, 2nd or booster.

You can now go to the main hospital in your city and get it done. When I went in August for my booster, there's a special department just for the vaccination and you're in and out very quickly.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Hope you got your booster sorted @Cully


Thanks Mrs F, the earliest I could get is 17th November.
I heard on the news this morning that as from Monday 8/11 you can book early appointments, after just months instead of 6.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Ha ha, good point!
> 
> Her dog came running out like she always does with a toy to give me and I remembered at the last minute not to touch her. She looked at me really hurt


 Poor dog probably calls you ''Auntie Meanie'' now.


----------



## MollySmith

@stuaz I am so very sorry for the loss of your friend and hope that you're managing okay.


----------



## simplysardonic

Sorry for your loss @stuaz


----------



## stuaz

Thank you both and apologies for making the thread a bit sad. I just felt it was important to share my experience that even “sensible intelligent” people can be brain washed if there mind is in the right place for it.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

We saw friends the other day @stuaz and we share a mutual friend who has fallen massively into the conspiracy theory world, so I can see how it can happen in even a seemingly sensible person. It's so sad. I'm so sad that your friend lost their life because of it. I'm sad that someone is so utterly convinced by mad theories that they will lose their life because of it. I hope you are doing okay (and no apology needed at all), I can only hope that your friend's death may have had an effect on other non-vaccinated friends and family of theirs who may reassess their decision.


----------



## mrs phas

Interesting read. 
However 
Few probablys, should bes and possibilities in there

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/why-some-people-die-covid-scientist-south-asians-dna-b964540.html


----------



## MollySmith

stuaz said:


> Thank you both and apologies for making the thread a bit sad. I just felt it was important to share my experience that even "sensible intelligent" people can be brain washed if there mind is in the right place for it.


No apology necessary at all. I am glad you felt you could share and it's opened my eyes. Take care of yourself, it must be a shock.


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve got a pub visit this week, I haven’t been to one since March 2020 - not indoors. I think I will brave it, it’s a midweek night in mid November and I hope it won’t be too busy. There is only 5 of us, all vaccinated. 

Next week on a panel discussion and hoping it’ll be okay too. I’m not sure of the wisdom of an event so I’m keeping a eye in it and will ask about Covid provision and masks even if I feel like a nag. It is important.


----------



## Siskin

We are planning lunch at a pub with some friends on Friday, so I checked the pubs menu out (pleased to see they’ve got fish pie on so I know what I will be having). I saw that they had a list of Covid precautions suggesting that masks should be worn apart from when sat at the table, so will do so as the rate is still a bit high round here although it is beginning to to go back down again now


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> We are planning lunch at a pub with some friends on Friday, so I checked the pubs menu out (pleased to see they've got fish pie on so I know what I will be having). I saw that they had a list of Covid precautions suggesting that masks should be worn apart from when sat at the table, so will do so as the rate is still a bit high round here although it is beginning to to go back down again now


Just as a small warning, I've been a few places that have face masks should be worn as advice, and been the only person in there with one on.

Actually starting to attract funny looks now....


----------



## MilleD

Had my booster yesterday. Felt rubbish last night going hot and cold, but did wonder whether it was just psychosomatic


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Poor dog probably calls you ''Auntie Meanie'' now.


----------



## catz4m8z

MilleD said:


> Just as a small warning, I've been a few places that have face masks should be worn as advice, and been the only person in there with one on.
> 
> Actually starting to attract funny looks now....


I was the only client at the vets the other night wearing a mask despite a sign asking you to wear one. Although I do admit to popping in the corner shop without one!:Shy

I really dont get why some NHS staff are still refusing to get vaccinated. I mean you have mandatory vaccinations before you start working so its not a new concept. ok, so the vaccination is new but its not a revolutionary process in how it was created....not like they are handing out radium toothpaste as the 'cool new thing'!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I’m really struggling with mandatory vaccinations for us in the NHS. I want everyone to be jabbed (I’ve had all three) but we bang on all the time about informed choice for patients - and yet are removing this choice for us. Then I go around in circles with the fact that unvaccinated people are removing my choice to be surrounded by vaccinated people.


----------



## StormyThai

So I have finally been out in public 
My dad came up Saturday and we had a lovely meal out in a lovely pup.

I was the only one wearing a mask to move between areas and they don't require you to log in or give details anymore so not sure what they would do if they had an outbreak 
The meal was lovely, but honestly I won't be doing that too often, especially on a weekend...it's honestly no wonder why we are seeing a surge in numbers around here if what I experienced is usual!

@Mrs Funkin I understand your thoughts...I too hate this mandatory vaccine push because I think it should be every single persons right to choose, but then I also struggle with the "Well why wouldn't you get the vaccine if you can" especially when in a position that poses a high risk of passing the virus onto vulnerable people...fear is a funny thing


----------



## O2.0

I'm struggling with mandatory vaccinations too. 
On the one hand plenty of jobs require vaccination and you understand the requirement going in. If you join the military you know you'll have to be vaccinated for certain diseases. 
Schools have required vaccination for decades. No one blinks an eye when school aged children have to get vaccinated before attending public school. Well, anti vaxxers do but they end up homeschooling... 

So we understand that the price of entry is vaccination. 
But once you're already in, you've met the requirements for employment or schooling, to add another and say you'll get kicked out if you don't seems unfair. 
I can see requiring new employees to be vaccinated so they can choose another job if they don't want to. But folks already at the job being fired if they don't doesn't sit right with me.


----------



## neverforgotten2020

I had the community nurses come round yesterday to give me the covid booster and flu vaccine. So got 2 sore arms lol!
As an ex registered nurse and now a vulnerable person on immunosuppressants, I can see the difficulty but we are living in unknown times. I have stopped my carers coming from the agency, as they weren't vaccinated but mainly because they kept on trying to tell me not to have the vaccine. As a nurse, we had to have hepatitis B, mmr jabs etc.


----------



## SbanR

neverforgotten2020 said:


> I had the community nurses come round yesterday to give me the covid booster and flu vaccine. So got 2 sore arms lol!
> As an ex registered nurse and now a vulnerable person on immunosuppressants, I can see the difficulty but we are living in unknown times. I have stopped my carers coming from the agency, as they weren't vaccinated but mainly because they kept on trying to tell me not to have the vaccine. As a nurse, we had to have hepatitis B, mmr jabs etc.


How are you managing without your carers? I hope you at least have someone lending a helping hand?


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> But once you're already in, you've met the requirements for employment or schooling, to add another and say you'll get kicked out if you don't seems unfair.
> I can see requiring new employees to be vaccinated so they can choose another job if they don't want to. But folks already at the job being fired if they don't doesn't sit right with me.


In general terms I do agree that it should be personal choice...and if somebody was only risking their own health then Id say good luck to them! Its abit trickier when its a public health issue, esp when you are talking about health care professions dealing with vulnerable people. (TBH I think they would be far more strict here in the UK if it wasnt for the fact that there is a big shortage of nurses and doctors).

Just makes me laugh when people bang on about their 'human rights' and 'freedom of choice' without really thinking. Things like vaccinations and laws are the price you pay for living in society. You dont want to abide by societies rules then nobody is stopping you from going and living off grid in the middle of the woods. However if you want the health and social care, fire and police services, roads, plumbing, shops, power, etc, etc, etc then you kinda have to suck it up surely?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The thing is, though, as someone who works in an area which a large throughput of (mostly) unvaccinated people, where is MY choice not to look after them if they aren't jabbed? I have no choice in that. None at all. I'm sure if a pregnant woman said she only wanted to be cared for by a fully vaccinated midwife, that would be accommodated. If I want to say I only want to provide care for fully vaccinated women, I wouldn't be able. It's a shame for you @neverforgotten2020 that you aren't able to request fully vaccinated care workers, is there no option for that? Thank goodness that you've been able to get your booster at home, what a fabulous service.

As I say, I've been jabbed, I am encouraging pregnant women to be vaccinated as per the National Guidance but there is still a lot of reticence. Many unvaccinated NHS workers are reticent for the same reason as non NHS workers - they are either pregnant/planning on a baby fairly soon as have concerns around that.


----------



## willa

Dad seems to be pretty much recovered from Covid , this is his Day 10.( All praise the Vaccinations for saving him from Hospital )

He took a LF Test today & was Negative.

Does anyone know how long it takes for sense of smell & taste to come back ? He still has neither


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh that's great to read @willa thank goodness for that. As for the senses, my god-daughter had Covid in Autumn last year when she went to Uni and it took several weeks to return to normal. Friends have had Covid more recently and it's taken a coupe of weeks. So he should at least be back to being able to taste again by Christmas


----------



## Arny

willa said:


> sense of smell & taste to come back ?


Best part of a year for my family member for smell but they got it at the start of all this so I don't know if the different strains work slightly differently.
Apparently you can retrain the senses by smelling at least 3 essential oils in order twice a day. We happened to switch the tv on when someone was talking about this so my family member started doing that, before that the only part that had come back was the ability to smell bad smells really well!
Taste came back more quickly.


----------



## pinklizzy

I'm nearly at a month post infection and am starting to get the sense of smell back in certain situations, can taste sweet things more than savoury and a lot of things still just taste of either nothing or a strange metallic/salty taste. 
Not being able to taste a cup of tea is the worst thing so far! 
It has come in handy not being able to smell anal glands/vomit but I did set the bacon on fire the other day as hadn't realised it was a bit too well done


----------



## MilleD

So it's 3am and I can't sleep due to pain in the small joints in my hands.

Is this some weird COVID booster side effect that I've not heard of?


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> So it's 3am and I can't sleep due to pain in the small joints in my hands.
> 
> Is this some weird COVID booster side effect that I've not heard of?


No idea, could be. Hope you got some sleep in the end


----------



## Lurcherlad

MilleD said:


> Just as a small warning, I've been a few places that have face masks should be worn as advice, and been the only person in there with one on.
> 
> Actually starting to attract funny looks now....


I find this too.

Yesterday, a friend and I visited a garden centre that was extremely busy indoors and we were in a small minority with masks on.

When we ate in the busy restaurant I got them to open the roof vents and some side windows to let some of the germs out.

I was also surprised to see couples (no masks) out with some very new babies in such crowded, indoor environments.


----------



## Lurcherlad

neverforgotten2020 said:


> I had the community nurses come round yesterday to give me the covid booster and flu vaccine. So got 2 sore arms lol!
> As an ex registered nurse and now a vulnerable person on immunosuppressants, I can see the difficulty but we are living in unknown times. I have stopped my carers coming from the agency, as they weren't vaccinated but mainly because they kept on trying to tell me not to have the vaccine. As a nurse, we had to have hepatitis B, mmr jabs etc.


That's bad … they aren't medical professionals and should really keep their anti vaccine opinions to themselves.

I would let the agency know so they can tell them to stop spreading the myths.


----------



## StormyThai

Ok, so as I said in my last reply, I want people to be able to make their own choice about having a vaccine...
Spreading fear so that you don't feel alone (or whatever) is not ok!

So we are having these plastered all over town:









Even though it is clear that we shouldn't be using yellow card data to derive anything about side effects or use them to compare safety...it seems that some people find something to fit with their beliefs and then they run with it...screw the facts


----------



## MilleD

"Experimental Pfizer gene therapies" shows just how little they know about what they are attempting to talk about.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> No idea, could be. Hope you got some sleep in the end


Fell asleep I reckon just after 5am. Then at around half past 5 one of the cats thundered up the stairs so loud I thought there was someone in the house.

Interesting night's "sleep" I have to say


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> So it's 3am and I can't sleep due to pain in the small joints in my hands.
> 
> Is this some weird COVID booster side effect that I've not heard of?


It sometimes happens to me after I've been doing something like peeling and chopping loads of vegetables like carrots or pumpkin in preparation for the freezer. Then I'll wake up with aching hands and my left one is always the worst because that's the one that does most of the chopping!


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> It sometimes happens to me after I've been doing something like peeling and chopping loads of vegetables like carrots or pumpkin in preparation for the freezer. Then I'll wake up with aching hands and my left one is always the worst because that's the one that does most of the chopping!


I haven't been doing anything like that. I've been sorting out my craft stuff, but nothing strenuous. Hope it's not the start of something and really is just a short term side effect.


----------



## willa

262 people have passed away . That seems very high


----------



## neverforgotten2020

SbanR said:


> How are you managing without your carers? I hope you at least have someone lending a helping hand?


I have my son here and I have got some equipment like a chemical commode and shower wipes. I thought hard about my decision, but I felt the risk was too high plus I didn't want a debate at 07.30 in the morning! Lol


----------



## neverforgotten2020

MilleD said:


> So it's 3am and I can't sleep due to pain in the small joints in my hands.
> 
> Is this some weird COVID booster side effect that I've not heard of? [/QUOTE
> 
> I have the same issues and I had the Covid booster and flu jab on Sunday, so it is possible?
> 
> Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> 262 people have passed away . That seems very high


It includes deaths that weren't reported over the weekend. Tuesdays totals are always higher then the rest of the week due to this. I think it's Wales that doesn't report deaths over weekends. The best way to assess the death rate is over the weekly total


----------



## MollySmith

I went out to the pub last night, first time since Feb 2020 and it was alarming. Only my party of 5 wore masks. None of the bar staff or other drinkers. 262 people died yesterday. I was surprised, it's not reflected in the shops, most still do wear masks. *sigh*


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @MollySmith  I'm sorry that your first attempt at going out was marred by the lack of masks. I share your pain, I really do.

I just went to M&S and Sainsburys. They've been okay normally but today (I've not been for a while) was terrible. Only a couple of other people wearing them. No staff wearing them at all. I feel just odd about it all. I live in PPE at work. We literally remove it to have a drink/eat. I feel like I am in a bubble there - and it's no wonder I can't deal with the "normal" outside world!


----------



## pinklizzy

@Mrs Funkin I feel the same way, it's so normal to wear a mask for most of the day now!
I've decided not to attend our Christmas party this year as I don't think I will feel comfortable enough being indoors with lots of other people for an extended period, even after having been infected.


----------



## Siskin

WI birthday party tonight. Food provided from a village caterer, bring you own plates and cutlery. Also to wrap up warm as they will have the doors and Windows open. Will mainly be local people


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh @MollySmith  I'm sorry that your first attempt at going out was marred by the lack of masks. I share your pain, I really do.
> 
> I just went to M&S and Sainsburys. They've been okay normally but today (I've not been for a while) was terrible. Only a couple of other people wearing them. No staff wearing them at all. I feel just odd about it all. I live in PPE at work. We literally remove it to have a drink/eat. I feel like I am in a bubble there - and it's no wonder I can't deal with the "normal" outside world!


Thank you and I'm sorry too, I can't being to imagine what it must be like for you. Two very different worlds.


----------



## Blackadder

All I would ask is why are they leaving this mandate until April (5 months) if it's so medically necessary?

If the NHS is looking at a grim winter then surely 6-8 weeks is plenty for the majority of staff to get double jabbed?


----------



## mrs phas

Austria to bring in lockdown for all unvaccinated

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59245018

Austrian chancellor Schallenberg says ...
" Two thirds, of people, should not suffer, because others are hesitant


----------



## kimthecat

Just red on the BBC Red Button that suggested that people should stop taking Methotrexate two weeks before the jab to make it more effective as MTX suppresses the immune system. I thought this myself and stopped the dose before the jabs but not two weeks.


----------



## kimthecat

Getting nostalgic for last year , when the roads were empty , no noisy planes, no crowds or queues in the shops. I'll get me coat ! 

I didnt realise how much I hated shopping and crowds until I went to town last week .


----------



## StormyThai

kimthecat said:


> Getting nostalgic for last year , when the roads were empty , no noisy planes, no crowds or queues in the shops. I'll get me coat !


Clean air...oh I miss that now...
The main thing that I really miss though is consideration from a fellow human being - during lockdown it was noticeable how many people would thank someone for stepping aside so they could pass, people would move over on the paths so that we could pass with space, we would smile and say good morning to pretty much every single person that was out - now I spend my days walking in the grass verges because groups of people think that it is far too much effort to not take up the whole pathway, smiling is a thing of the past and dare to say good morning and you risk a rant...the other day I was talking to the dog that I was walking to keep his attention away from the person with two dogs straining at the leash to get to us, as we passed I got "What did you f*&king say!" and after saying that I was just talking to my dog she responded with a tirade of swearwords...

I really do miss considerate humans...we don't have many of them up this way, it's very much the "I'm alright Jack" attitude


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> Just red on the BBC Red Button that suggested that people should stop taking Methotrexate two weeks before the jab to make it more effective as MTX suppresses the immune system. I thought this myself and stopped the dose before the jabs but not two weeks.


I'll have to ask my step mother what she did as she is on this drug for sarcoidosis of the brain stem.

Although she's had a knee replacement recently so that might have also affected things.


----------



## kimthecat

#


StormyThai said:


> Clean air...oh I miss that now...
> The main thing that I really miss though is consideration from a fellow human being - during lockdown it was noticeable how many people would thank someone for stepping aside so they could pass, people would move over on the paths so that we could pass with space, we would smile and say good morning to pretty much every single person that was out - now I spend my days walking in the grass verges because groups of people think that it is far too much effort to not take up the whole pathway, smiling is a thing of the past and dare to say good morning and you risk a rant...the other day I was talking to the dog that I was walking to keep his attention away from the person with two dogs straining at the leash to get to us, as we passed I got "What did you f*&king say!" and after saying that I was just talking to my dog she responded with a tirade of swearwords...
> 
> I really do miss considerate humans...we don't have many of them up this way, it's very much the "I'm alright Jack" attitude


 Crazy woman. That sums it up pretty well Not quite as bad as that here but if you say hello to strangers they look at you as if you're nuts . School mums with their push chairs taking up the whole pavement and expect old ladies like me to step into the road


----------



## kimthecat

OH has received letters from NHS about having a covid booster and the flu jab. Does anyone know how big a gap there should be before having covid and flu jabs. ?


----------



## SbanR

kimthecat said:


> OH has received letters from NHS about having a covid booster and the flu jab. Does anyone know how big a gap there should be before having covid and flu jabs. ?


No gap needed. He can have them both at the same appointment. Different arm for each vaccine.


----------



## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> OH has received letters from NHS about having a covid booster and the flu jab. Does anyone know how big a gap there should be before having covid and flu jabs. ?


Just for information as I have mentioned MMR for adults. I was told 2 weeks between vaccines!


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> OH has received letters from NHS about having a covid booster and the flu jab. Does anyone know how big a gap there should be before having covid and flu jabs. ?


When I had my booster they offered everyone the flu jab as well. As it happened I had already had my flu jab at my GP's about 3 weeks prior, so I declined. All the others had the flu and booster, one in each arm


----------



## kimthecat

@SbanR @lullabydream @Siskin Thanks !


----------



## Calvine

Dutch return to partial lockdown as COVID-19 cases soar | Reuters

Police resorting to water cannon as protest becomes unmanageable.


----------



## £54etgfb6

kimthecat said:


> Just red on the BBC Red Button that suggested that people should stop taking Methotrexate two weeks before the jab to make it more effective as MTX suppresses the immune system. I thought this myself and stopped the dose before the jabs but not two weeks.


Methotrexate has a known impact in some people receiving other vaccines such as the flu vaccine. The advise differs from stopping tablets on the day of vaccine for 2 weeks, stopping tablets for 4 weeks after vaccination, stopping tablets for 2 weeks prior and after vaccination, etc. When I was on methotrexate I was not told to stop taking it for any vaccine but then again I have very severe crohn's and if I stopped taking them I would have probably required surgery. I haven't really looked up the actual studies on it but yeah methotrexate is known to change the immune response to vaccines. I think it depends upon the patient whether the potential benefit is worth the risk of flare ups.


----------



## MilleD

JCVI now advising boosters for those aged 40 and over. And for 16-17 year olds to have a second jab.


----------



## StormyThai

So apparently Suffolk is now designated as an Enhanced Response Area (ERA)...I have no idea what that actually means beyond the fact that 16 (I think) schools in the area are struggling with covid outbreaks.
I guess the fancy name makes someone feel like they are doing something...all our schools are under special measures so an added title is just great!


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Getting nostalgic for last year , when the roads were empty , no noisy planes, no crowds or queues in the shops


I had exactly the same thought on Saturday when the England/Australia game was on. The stadium holds _78,000_ and you literally do not take your car out on rugby days - it's awful.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> I had exactly the same thought on Saturday when the England/Australia game was on. The stadium holds _78,000_ and you literally do not take your car out on rugby days - it's awful.


I really feel for you. Its bad enough living near a school .


----------



## £54etgfb6

Received a blue envelope from the NHS and thought it was a date for my booster but it’s actually a date for a flu jab!! I’m not sure how it works down in England but in the past I’ve only ever received flu jab invitations from my local GP, never from the NHS. It’s also going to be done in an abandoned retail store?? I would presume that the NHS are taking over flu jab allocations as they don’t want to increase the number of sick patients this winter? 

I also have not been invited to have a flu jab in the past few years so I assumed that he medication I am on now did not qualify me. Guess I was wrong!


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH had his covid booster a few weeks a ago and having his flu jab Saturday..

As I had a home visit for my covid jab OH asked the surgery when he was there this morning, when I would be getting mine, they said they haven't started doing the home visits yet, but I am down for one and they'll let me know when they are coming to see me and they'll do flu jab at the same time.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Calvine said:


> I had exactly the same thought on Saturday when the England/Australia game was on. The stadium holds _78,000_ and you literally do not take your car out on rugby days - it's awful.


We lived for 17 years about half a mile from Twickers…being a community midwife on rugby days was not fun!


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> We lived for 17 years about half a mile from Twickers…being a community midwife on rugby days was not fun!


Think it's South Africa this coming Saturday . . . oh joy!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The debacle when it was World Cup! Agghhh! 

Anyway, back to Covid…


----------



## StormyThai

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-59299391
Well this is what our ERA status means...

Personally I think that it is stupid and ridiculous that kids from a positive household are still expected in school...but then I think that when I see people pushing their kids through the school gates when they are clearly snotting, coughing and sneezing everywhere...but what do I know :Shifty


----------



## rona

StormyThai said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-59299391
> Well this is what our ERA status means...
> 
> Personally I think that it is stupid and ridiculous that kids from a positive household are still expected in school...but then I think that when I see people pushing their kids through the school gates when they are clearly snotting, coughing and sneezing everywhere...but what do I know :Shifty


It's obvious that in general, it's schools that are fueling the pandemic.
Just have to look at the figures alongside term times


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> No cheese @MilleD ? NO CHEESE?
> 
> What is this madness of which you speak.
> 
> I don't care what we eat either**
> 
> ** except if there's no cheese. Obv.


I'm very sad to report this in my local Sainsbury's. The world may as well end now ...


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh. Dear. Oh. Heck.

@MilleD if there's no cheese, I'm cancelling Christmas and having poached egg on toast...I nearly said cheese on toast and D'OH!

Noooooooooo!


----------



## kimthecat

OH had his Covid jab at one of the local chemists today . he's a bit younger than me but was offered one as an unpaid carer . (mine!) 
In glad I went to a vax centre, The chemist was very cramped and people were queuing outside. I had to wait in the car for him.

He was given the Moderna vax.


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh. Dear. Oh. Heck.
> 
> @MilleD if there's no cheese, I'm cancelling Christmas and having poached egg on toast...I nearly said cheese on toast and D'OH!
> 
> Noooooooooo!


Hee hee.

Their cooling pipes were having problems.

It's not a nationwide shortage.

I did panic a little before taking to a staff member though


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> I'm very sad to report this in my local Sainsbury's. The world may as well end now ...
> View attachment 479361


:Woot:Woot:WootYour world has ended MilleD.
Thankfully, I Always have several cheeses in my fridge

@Mrs Funkin how about sardines on toast


----------



## simplysardonic

MilleD said:


> Hee hee.
> 
> Their cooling pipes were having problems.
> 
> It's not a nationwide shortage.
> 
> I did panic a little before taking to a staff member though


I did wonder if that was why.

Our local independent supermarket has refrigeration units that are always breaking down!


----------



## MilleD

SbanR said:


> @Mrs Funkin how about sardines on toast


:Vomit


----------



## MilleD

simplysardonic said:


> I did wonder if that was why.
> 
> Our local independent supermarket has refrigeration units that are always breaking down!


I assumed that was the problem, but there was no effort on their part to ensure people could buy things. No cheese, butter, juice or packed meats. But 3 fridges full of fizz that could have been utilised.

That's lazy retail.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> :Vomit


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Mrs Funkin

SbanR said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


Make it tinned mackerel fillets in tomato sauce and it's a winner


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> I'm very sad to report this in my local Sainsbury's. The world may as well end now ...
> View attachment 479361


No shortage of food over here but for some reason the frozen food freezers in our Tesco hypermarket in the city have been like that for months. It's most annoying and even more so because they've either moved or abandoned the small vegan section. Not a smear of hummus to be found anywhere!


----------



## Lurcherlad

No sunflower hearts in Wilko yesterday … the birds are making do with extra kibbled peanuts and suet pellets to bulk out the rest of their grub …. No drama 

I assume it’s transport/supplier issues.


----------



## Happy Paws2

MilleD said:


> I'm very sad to report this in my local Sainsbury's. The world may as well end now ...
> View attachment 479361


Ours was like that a couple of months ago, they were having trouble with the chillers and had to shut off for a couple of days.


----------



## StormyThai

I've just received my invite to book my booster so I am going to book both my flu jab and booster...not looking forward to feeling groggy afterwards but happy that I will be fully vacc'd


----------



## willa

My 2 year old Niece has to get a PCR done, as she’s been under the weather for almost a week now.
Her GP told her Parents on the phone that she should have a PCR Test.

In all honesty I didn’t realise toddlers could get Covid.
And how traumatic for her to have a swab stuck up her nose & throat


----------



## pinklizzy

I had my booster yesterday, slightly sore arm but otherwise no side effects (other than the ongoing covid symptoms I already had!)


----------



## £54etgfb6

willa said:


> My 2 year old Niece has to get a PCR done, as she's been under the weather for almost a week now.
> Her GP told her Parents on the phone that she should have a PCR Test.
> 
> In all honesty I didn't realise toddlers could get Covid.
> And how traumatic for her to have a swab stuck up her nose & throat


In the pharmacy I work in I have come across parents telling me their child has or has had covid and some of these children are 1-3 years old. I find it heartbreaking to hear honestly. I think we used to recommend PCRs to any child above 2 but now we have changed our advice to children of any age. I hope your niece's test comes back negative and she is feeling a bit better soon.


----------



## Siskin

OH is off having his booster done as I type. Will report back as to symptoms, if he’s like before then he will just feel sleepy


----------



## Mrs Funkin

There have been many documented cases of newborns having Covid too  Your poor niece @willa - horrible for her. I hope it's negative.


----------



## Cully

Had my booster yesterday and had a sore arm. Today I'm feeling tired and queasy. Bit bloated too so I've taken some Gaviscon. Hope I don't get a repeat of the gastric upset I had before.
Anyone else had similar with the booster. Pfizer.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just had the sore arm with my booster, nothing else. With my first jab I had what I can only describe as seasickness for several days, most disconcerting. I've had a very sore arm each time - first was the worst, second was the best and the booster was in between. Hope you're feeling better in the morning @Cully


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I just had the sore arm with my booster, nothing else. With my first jab I had what I can only describe as seasickness for several days, most disconcerting. I've had a very sore arm each time - first was the worst, second was the best and the booster was in between. Hope you're feeling better in the morning @Cully


Yes seasickness is a good description. Just how I felt on the ferry crossing.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Had my booster yesterday and had a sore arm. Today I'm feeling tired and queasy. Bit bloated too so I've taken some Gaviscon. Hope I don't get a repeat of the gastric upset I had before.
> Anyone else had similar with the booster. Pfizer.


I went a bit hot and cold after my booster. Not sure about feeling seasick as I was mainly lying on the sofa


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I went a bit hot and cold after my booster. Not sure about feeling seasick as I was mainly lying on the sofa


Hope you're feeling better now.
I was ok until about 1am then my IBS kicked in, like after my other jabs. I've heard that one of the reactions is gastric upset. Wish I knew why?
Still, if feeling a bit rough for a few days stops me getting really ill then its worth it.


----------



## Charity

My OH and I had our boosters at the same time as our flu jab a couple of weeks ago. I just had two sore arms for a few days while my OH was completely wiped out the day after as if he actually had flu and this lasted 24 hours. He didn't have any problem with the first two, they were all Pfizer, so whether it was because he had it with the flu jab, who knows.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Hope you're feeling better now.
> I was ok until about 1am then my IBS kicked in, like after my other jabs. I've heard that one of the reactions is gastric upset. Wish I knew why?
> Still, if feeling a bit rough for a few days stops me getting really ill then its worth it.


I am thanks. It only lasted the rest of the day.

Hope you are feeling better soon x


----------



## Magyarmum

From tomorrow onwards it's mandatory to wear masks again in enclosed spaces. I went to the city yesterday and a good percentage of mainly older people wear already wearing masks even when walking in the open. Nearly 11,000 new infections yesterday in Hungary. 

I've decided apart from essential shopping and taking the boys to training which is outside anyway, I'm going to hibernate and be like one of the tricoteuse during the French Revolution. Except I won't be watching heads fall at the guillotine. hopefully something interesting on the TV


----------



## Cully

Charity said:


> My OH and I had our boosters at the same time as our flu jab a couple of weeks ago. I just had two sore arms for a few days while my OH was completely wiped out the day after as if he actually had flu and this lasted 24 hours. He didn't have any problem with the first two, they were all Pfizer, so whether it was because he had it with the flu jab, who knows.


I suppose when you consider you've just been given a mini dose of both flu and covid in the vaccines, and your body is reacting to them by making antibodies to fight them, it's not surprising you feel poorly for a few days while your immune system learns to recognise and fight both of them.
I have to keep reminding myself of this everytime my arm hurts!:Inpain


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> I am thanks. It only lasted the rest of the day.
> 
> Hope you are feeling better soon x


Thanks, I'm sure I will be. Just have to remind myself how ill I might be if I didn't have the vaccine.


----------



## StormyThai

Closest place to book is over half hours drive away so I am waiting outside for our only walk-in....









You can't see the front of the line it is that long...I could be here for a while!


----------



## Calvine

Austria reimposes full lockdown, plans to make COVID vaccines compulsory | Reuters

Apologies if this has already been posted on another Covid thread. Imagine the outcry if there was an attempt to make vaccination compulsory here?


----------



## SbanR

StormyThai said:


> Closest place to book is over half hours drive away so I am waiting outside for our only walk-in....
> View attachment 479400
> 
> 
> You can't see the front of the line it is that long...I could be here for a while!


Did you anticipate that long queue? Hope you're warmly dressed!


----------



## Siskin

So OH has come in from doing a bit of garden tidying saying he has to stop because he’s now feeling hot and a bit woozy. Is this a symptom from the booster yesterday or has he had enough tidying


----------



## StormyThai

SbanR said:


> Did you anticipate that long queue? Hope you're warmly dressed!


Not at all...I was expecting a half hour wait at most...2 hours later and I have made it inside, just have to wait for my number to be called.
There is only 4 vaccinators who haven't had a break yet so they are doing very well...the line is still just as long as when I joined it.. it's great that the uptake is so good in the area.

ETA: All sorted...Moderna booster and flu jab all done.
It only took 3 hours


----------



## Siskin

OH had a wait in a queue when he went for his yesterday, enjoyed a convo with the person behind him whilst they waited. The vaccinator told him that his normal job was plumbing, just fancied volunteering to do vaccinations for a while


----------



## Jobeth

3 hours!! Luckily I could book my booster and, even though I was half an hour early, I just went straight in. My arm hurt a bit but it didn’t last long. I only had a reaction to the first one. I got my flu vaccine from my GP surgery a while ago.


----------



## StormyThai

Jobeth said:


> 3 hours!!


Nods head...I joined the queue at around 10:40am (walk in opened at 10:30am) and I finally left at 1:43pm ( i know this because the lady wrote the time that I was allowed to leave on a post-it)
I wanted to book so that I had an appointment time but you have to travel out of town for that because they have closed the big vaccination centre that we did have so we only have one walk-in to cover the whole town and surrounding villages.

I nearly walked away a couple of times, but after waiting for an hour and a half I felt that I had committed too much time already so might as well see it through :Hilarious


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Thanks, I'm sure I will be. Just have to remind myself how ill I might be if I didn't have the vaccine.


I was glad to have the vaccinations. The first one I had a bad reaction , was sick and chilly but fine within 24 hours. The other two I just had a sore arm.


----------



## Jobeth

StormyThai said:


> Nods head...I joined the queue at around 10:40am (walk in opened at 10:30am) and I finally left at 1:43pm ( i know this because the lady wrote the time that I was allowed to leave on a post-it)
> I wanted to book so that I had an appointment time but you have to travel out of town for that because they have closed the big vaccination centre that we did have so we only have one walk-in to cover the whole town and surrounding villages.
> 
> I nearly walked away a couple of times, but after waiting for an hour and a half I felt that I had committed too much time already so might as well see it through :Hilarious


That's definitely dedication! If I couldn't drive then it would be difficult as there isn't a direct bus service to the nearest vaccination centre. It's about 25 minutes away by car.


----------



## StormyThai

Jobeth said:


> That's definitely dedication!


Thankfully it didn't actually feel that bad because the 3 masked up ladies in front of me were very friendly and we managed to pass the time moaning about the weather, how cold we were and how they should have organised a tea person to run down the line occasionally...it felt very British and is probably the most I have interreacted with strangers (beyond work) for a long time :Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

Heard something interesting yesterday
Man of 40 odd, vaccinated and boostered (due to health issue), girlfriend double vaccinated, 8 year old child not vaccinated. Girlfriend contracted Covid and has been poorly but not greatly so, 8 year old now has Covid just a bit off colour, man not got Covid (yet). He’s doing daily laterals flows and regular PCR’s as he’s working with others and has shown no sign. Hopefully this is showing how effective the booster is being.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> Heard something interesting yesterday
> Man of 40 odd, vaccinated and boostered (due to health issue), girlfriend double vaccinated, 8 year old child not vaccinated. Girlfriend contracted Covid and has been poorly but not greatly so, 8 year old now has Covid just a bit off colour, man not got Covid (yet). He's doing daily laterals flows and regular PCR's as he's working with others and has shown no sign. Hopefully this is showing how effective the booster is being.


My step dad has had Covid (double vaccination) mum didn't catch it (booster) so I guess it does help.


----------



## mrs phas

I'm surprised so many are having flu *and *booster together
All the surgeries around here (well they're all satellites of just 2 different surgeries) put an embargo on it, and one had to wait 2 weeks between
Thankfully I had no reaction after the second AZ jab (2 day migraine with first) and nothing, not even a sore arm, after Pfizer booster


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> I'm surprised so many are having flu *and *booster together
> All the surgeries around here (well they're all satellites of just 2 different surgeries) put an embargo on it, and one had to wait 2 weeks between
> Thankfully I had no reaction after the second AZ jab (2 day migraine with first) and nothing, not even a sore arm, after Pfizer booster


We werent offered the flu jab at the same time as the Covid. We decided to wait a little while to book the flu jab after the Covid one. ,


----------



## Mrs Funkin

mrs phas said:


> I'm surprised so many are having flu *and *booster together
> All the surgeries around here (well they're all satellites of just 2 different surgeries) put an embargo on it, and one had to wait 2 weeks between
> Thankfully I had no reaction after the second AZ jab (2 day migraine with first) and nothing, not even a sore arm, after Pfizer booster


Flu and Covid booster together was the standard offering at the hospital, nearly everyone did them both together.


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> Flu and Covid booster together was the standard offering at the hospital, nearly everyone did them both together.


Maybe the GP's were just being extra cautious then 
We did have ours at the end of September though, when they were very first available


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Does anyone know how long it takes following a booster for your immunity levels to increase. I vaguely remember it being 2 to 3 weeks to gain partial immunity after the first jab then 2 weeks following the second was considered ' full immunity' I am aware there is no such thing as total immunity but can't think how else to word it right now - total brain fog I'm afraid.


----------



## StormyThai

3dogs2cats said:


> Does anyone know how long it takes following a booster for your immunity levels to increase. I vaguely remember it being 2 to 3 weeks to gain partial immunity after the first jab then 2 weeks following the second was considered ' full immunity' I am aware there is no such thing as total immunity but can't think how else to word it right now - total brain fog I'm afraid.


Studies by Pfizer have shown very high levels of protection from 7 - 14 days after the booster is given. I don't think that similar studies have been done for Moderna but as both vaccines work in the same way it's probably around the same timeframe.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

StormyThai said:


> Studies by Pfizer have shown very high levels of protection from 7 - 14 days after the booster is given. I don't think that similar studies have been done for Moderna but as both vaccines work in the same way it's probably around the same timeframe.


 Thank you, my mum is finally getting her booster next week she is housebound and it takes her GP surgery a while to get around to doing vaccinations at home so she is overdo. I will be glad when she has had it!


----------



## rona

Got mine booked for 12th Dec.

Could have had it before, but for various reasons, it seemed best I leave it until then.

Scared sister has just had her first jab, she should be safe in the new year. Might take her out safe place to celebrate after her second


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH has now had his booster and his flu jabs, I'm still waiting for a home visit for mine.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> There have been many documented cases of newborns having Covid too  Your poor niece @willa - horrible for her. I hope it's negative.


I've been surprised at the many tiny, young babies I've seen in crowded indoor settings …. I wouldn't have risked taking my newborn into such places in the middle of a pandemic tbh.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The other thing @Lurcherlad is all the visitors people have. We have been trying to encourage parents to get their visitors to do LFTs but who knows if it's happening? I know we have tried to do the same before people come for their appointments but that's largely been disregarded.

I'd have been hiding away if I'd just had a baby. Not worth the risk IMO.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I've been surprised at the many tiny, young babies I've seen in crowded indoor settings …. I wouldn't have risked taking my newborn into such places in the middle of a pandemic tbh.


Strange isn't it! When mine were born I was told not to expose them to too many people until they were at least 6 weeks old.

Seems we only do that with puppies these days


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH had his booster a month ago and mine’s booked for 1st Dec … can’t wait 

MIL (86 with major health issues) still hasn’t had any jabs and it’s really tricky to have any interaction with her … especially now the cold weather has returned so sitting outside is off the cards.

Not that I’m bothered per se (the woman is a nightmare) but it’s frustrating that we all have to be constantly on our guard to protect her (we still need to do things for her) when she could have made everyone’s life easier and her own safer.


----------



## pinklizzy

I've not taken my small humans into shops unless absolutely necessary since the lockdowns, can't believe how many people I've seen with tiny tiny babies in the supermarket etc, I'd be terrified!


----------



## O2.0

I don't know if I'm being overly optimistic, but here Covid 19 cases are down and people are starting to get colds and flus again. 
People are getting sick and it's strep throat or just a cold. It's almost refreshing to see people out in public with a run of the mill winter cold and people not panicking about it.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> I don't know if I'm being overly optimistic, but here Covid 19 cases are down and people are starting to get colds and flus again.
> People are getting sick and it's strep throat or just a cold. It's almost refreshing to see people out in public with a run of the mill winter cold and people not panicking about it.


Europe is having a torrid time. Cases going up and riots about lockdown measures. Us Brits are being quite smug not sure why only reason are numbers aren't shooting up is because they were high anyway.


----------



## MilleD

Siskin said:


> Heard something interesting yesterday
> Man of 40 odd, vaccinated and boostered (due to health issue), girlfriend double vaccinated, 8 year old child not vaccinated. Girlfriend contracted Covid and has been poorly but not greatly so, 8 year old now has Covid just a bit off colour, man not got Covid (yet). He's doing daily laterals flows and regular PCR's as he's working with others and has shown no sign. Hopefully this is showing how effective the booster is being.


I think the thing we don't know that could be affecting who gets it and who doesn't is how many people have had asymptomatic Covid.

When my sister had it with symptoms a couple of weeks ago, my brother in law was untouched by it - I reckon he has had it as he has been the shopper and going into work now and then throughout.


----------



## Siskin

MilleD said:


> I think the thing we don't know that could be affecting who gets it and who doesn't is how many people have had asymptomatic Covid.
> 
> When my sister had it with symptoms a couple of weeks ago, my brother in law was untouched by it - I reckon he has had it as he has been the shopper and going into work now and then throughout.


In the case of this particular family, he was testing regularly as he was working with others, surely if he had a symptomatic Covid it would have showed up


----------



## £54etgfb6

Siskin said:


> In the case of this particular family, he was testing regularly as he was working with others, surely if he had a symptomatic Covid it would have showed up


If he's doing the recommended 2 per week (or even more) then it's very likely that despite LFTs not being completely accurate, it would pick up whether he had traces of the virus asymptomatic or not. Hope his girlfriend and child recover soon.


----------



## Siskin

bmr10 said:


> If he's doing the recommended 2 per week (or even more) then it's very likely that despite LFTs not being completely accurate, it would pick up whether he had traces of the virus asymptomatic or not. Hope his girlfriend and child recover soon.


He was actually doing them daily as he has a health issue which was why at the age of 40 he had both BACS and the booster. I think he was doing daily LFT's and every three days doing the PCR


----------



## Happy Paws2

I still don't understand why they don't say "we have to wear masks in crowded places" instead of leaving it up too us to decide, I have noticed even in supermarkets less and less people are wearing them. When OH went for his booster on a bus the other day he said hardly anyone was wearing one, he had a taxi home.


----------



## MollySmith

The earliest date I can get a booster on the app is Xmas Eve. We have invite to parents on 25th. Would you?

I may brave the walk in on Sat am in the city. If it’s hell on Earth, I’ll take Xmas Eve. Still can’t get flu jab.


----------



## Jobeth

I wouldn’t have the booster on Christmas Eve in case I had side effects. My parents also caught COVID the same day they had the booster. I’ve had mine but they sent an email reminder that said you can only have it at a walk in if it’s been 182 days since the second vaccination.


----------



## Cully

Jobeth said:


> I wouldn't have the booster on Christmas Eve in case I had side effects. My parents also caught COVID the same day they had the booster. I've had mine but they sent an email reminder that said you can only have it at a walk in if it's been 182 days since the second vaccination.


Lots of people I know have had their booster but have also received the same email/text. I've had the reminder 3 times! Surely it must be documented so why aren't they joining up the dots? It can't be helping all those statistics they keep quoting about how many have taken up the boosters.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> OH had his booster a month ago and mine's booked for 1st Dec … can't wait


 Strange times we are living in when you (you generic) get excited at the prospect of an injection! And the last thing you do before leaving home is pick up a face mask.


----------



## Cully

Yep, a trip to the shop is an outing for me now. I haven't quite got to the getting dressed up special stage yet though! It still only is Tesco after all.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> Yep, a trip to the shop is an outing for me now. I haven't quite got to the getting dressed up special stage yet though! It still only is Tesco after all.


 It would be quite funny if it weren't so sad, wouldn't it!


----------



## StormyThai

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-59402457.amp

We really need more than one doctor surgery that can keep hold of doctors so that we can actually get to see a doctor...but yeah extra money so that we can have events for switching lights on is far more important apparently


----------



## Cully

If we are in such dire straits then I don't understand why funds spent on frivolous and/or less important things can't be redirected to help support essentials.

And....if people could actually get to see a doctor when required then the hospitals wouldn't have the problem of turning them away when they, inevitably, end up clogging up A&E because they have nowhere else to go.


----------



## HarlequinCat

I see some GPs want to go on strike because they don't want to go back to face to face appointments


----------



## Cully

F2F is essential. How can you really assess someone over the phone? So much can be diagnosed from observation, but it is hit and miss if just relying on a patient's ability to describe how they feel.
Not everyone has zoom (or similar), and even that is a poor second best for diagnosis purposes.


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-59402457.amp
> 
> We really need more than one doctor surgery that can keep hold of doctors so that we can actually get to see a doctor...but yeah extra money so that we can have events for switching lights on is far more important apparently


That's not quite the story though is it?

The money is to help _prevent the spread of Covid AT _events like switch ons.


----------



## StormyThai

MilleD said:


> help _prevent the spread of Covid AT _events like switch ons.


Thanks but I read it right and I am still fuming. The town does not need to spend 40 odd thousand on covid safety measures for any events...The town needs the infrastructure to handle the residents AND keep up with the thousands that move here when all the construction has been completed...not covid safety measures that should already be in place.

But this is now getting political so I will leave it there!


----------



## MilleD

StormyThai said:


> Thanks but I read it right and I am still fuming. The town does not need to spend 40 odd thousand on covid safety measures for any events...The town needs the infrastructure to handle the residents AND keep up with the thousands that move here when all the construction has been completed...not covid safety measures that should already be in place.
> 
> But this is now getting political so I will leave it there!


The christmas light will get switched on anyway, why not do it safely?


----------



## StormyThai

I think you are missing the point...but besides the lights here have already been switched on...
They were switched on last year too without having to spend any extra money on supposed safety measures...but yeah, I'd much rather see people in yellow coats walking the streets instead of money spent on things the town actually needs 

As I said....this is now in the wrong thread so I will leave it!


----------



## mrs phas

StormyThai said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-59402457.amp
> 
> We really need more than one doctor surgery that can keep hold of doctors so that we can actually get to see a doctor...but yeah extra money so that we can have events for switching lights on is far more important apparently


Tonight is our switch on, I shan't be going 
The lights have actually been up and on for over a week now, it's just the market Christmas tree that has to be 'switched on' 
There will be throngs in the town, stalls up and down high st, shops open til 9pm, fairground rides coming in, running battles between the two high schools (every year, even last year)
I'm firmly and foursquare with you @StormyThai, why do we need all this kerfuffle to flip a switch, it's not like anyone famous is doing it, just the town mayor I believe 
Yet 
There are no dental practices taking NHS patients within a 30 mile radius 
No drs at Long Melford, one has to travel to lavenham, 8 miles away, with no bus service 
What bus services we do have, to Colchester, bury or Ipswich, is forever being cancelled due to driver illness or drivers leaving for better pay driving hgv's

We don't need some boozy covid spreading jolly with over inflated prices to gouge parents 
We need to be safe 
Especially with the latest news and yet another case of the door being bolted, after the horse has fled


----------



## mrs phas

Double post


----------



## HarlequinCat

A wee bit melodramatic. Things can't always be joyless. Some people look forward to having an occasion to celebrate. And if it's outdoors in the main it can't be too bad. If the light switch on funds were raised by locals themselves would you have too much to bother you?

What about these unnecessary cycle lanes that are wider than roads, costing millions to make to be used by a handful of cyclists. That's a waste. 

The lack of NHS dentists has a lot to do with the fact they have so many targets to reach set by the government, that it's not profitable, so they go private. They have to see so many patients a day to be able to get extra from the government, and with regulations they need time to clean between each one, and the cost of ppe it's just not worth it to a lot of practices. It also prevents them from taking on more NHS patients because they don't have the time to see them.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Mum still hasn't had her covid booster despite being well over due, was suppose to be this week but no one has turned up, enquired about it only to be told will 'probably' be next week! Seeing as her carers are not bothering to wear masks most of the bloody time I am not at all happy


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> Strange times we are living in when you (you generic) get excited at the prospect of an injection! And the last thing you do before leaving home is pick up a face mask.


:Hilarious Yeah , My Rheumy hospital is like my second home. you get to know the staff and have a chat.



3dogs2cats said:


> Mum still hasn't had her covid booster despite being well over due, was suppose to be this week but no one has turned up, enquired about it only to be told will 'probably' be next week! Seeing as her carers are not bothering to wear masks most of the bloody time I am not at all happy


 Sounds like a nightmare.


----------



## kimthecat

flights to and from South Africa banned because of new variant.


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> flights to and from South Africa banned because of new variant.


Apparently people on holiday on SA are flying to another country then flying to the uk and getting round the ban.
Could that be checked up on at arrivals do you think? Do they still have quarantine hotels?


----------



## willa

Seems this new variant has reached now Europe .
Will be worrying if it gets into this Country & it turns out the vaccines are indeed less effective


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Apparently people on holiday on SA are flying to another country then flying to the uk and getting round the ban.
> Could that be checked up on at arrivals do you think? Do they still have quarantine hotels?


 That doesn't sound good. I honestly don't know.


----------



## Blackadder

Siskin said:


> Do they still have quarantine hotels?


Apparently they do & anyone arriving from the red list countries after 4.0 am Sunday will have to stay in one.


----------



## kimthecat

According to the BBC news tonight they are only letting people from the UK and Ireland back into the country and they have to do Q in a hotel.


----------



## willa

Not great news. The new Strain is in the UK.
Guess it was only a matter of time


----------



## MollySmith

I appreciate many say that we have to learn to live with it but today really is grim.


----------



## willa

Press Conference at 5pm.


----------



## Blackadder

MollySmith said:


> I appreciate many say that we have to learn to live with it but today really is grim.


Why is it grim? Nobody knows anything about it yet.


----------



## simplysardonic

mrs phas said:


> Tonight is our switch on, I shan't be going
> The lights have actually been up and on for over a week now, it's just the market Christmas tree that has to be 'switched on'
> There will be throngs in the town, stalls up and down high st, shops open til 9pm, fairground rides coming in, running battles between the two high schools (every year, even last year)
> I'm firmly and foursquare with you @StormyThai, why do we need all this kerfuffle to flip a switch, it's not like anyone famous is doing it, just the town mayor I believe
> Yet
> There are no dental practices taking NHS patients within a 30 mile radius
> No drs at Long Melford, one has to travel to lavenham, 8 miles away, with no bus service
> What bus services we do have, to Colchester, bury or Ipswich, is forever being cancelled due to driver illness or drivers leaving for better pay driving hgv's
> 
> We don't need some boozy covid spreading jolly with over inflated prices to gouge parents
> We need to be safe
> Especially with the latest news and yet another case of the door being bolted, after the horse has fled


I drove my oldest home to Holt last Friday, it was totally heaving due to the Christmas lights switch on, cars parked all up the sides & middle of the dual carriageway leading up to the roundabout, all up the side streets, very hard to negotiate as there was no room to pass oncoming traffic, it was absolutely ridiculous.

I dropped him off & quickly left for the completely empty Holt Country Park for a moonlit walk with the dogs, much nicer!


----------



## willa

Really hope this Press Conference is productive.


----------



## Siskin

Just heard that my half sister has died.
Although she caught Covid in hospital recently she seemed to get over it and was deemed clear. Her family fought tooth and nail to get her home, the hospital wanted to keep her in where she wasn’t allowed visitors and was clearly not going to last long as the Covid had badly affected her copd. At least she was able to be in her own bed for her last two weeks surrounded by family and in peace. My Neice said she just slipped away an hour or so ago.

Such a pity we have only known about each other for two and a half years


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> Not great news. The new Strain is in the UK.
> Guess it was only a matter of time


Its two cases . I really hope they can contain it or is it too late?

@Siskin I'm so sorry to hear about your half sister.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I appreciate many say that we have to learn to live with it but today really is grim.


It's in the towns either side of me as of this morning, apparently


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my half sister has died.
> Although she caught Covid in hospital recently she seemed to get over it and was deemed clear. Her family fought tooth and nail to get her home, the hospital wanted to keep her in where she wasn't allowed visitors and was clearly not going to last long as the Covid had badly affected her copd. At least she was able to be in her own bed for her last two weeks surrounded by family and in peace. My Neice said she just slipped away an hour or so ago.
> 
> Such a pity we have only known about each other for two and a half years


I'm so sorry for you loss, my thoughts are with you and you family.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sorry to hear your sad news @Siskin


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my half sister has died.
> Although she caught Covid in hospital recently she seemed to get over it and was deemed clear. Her family fought tooth and nail to get her home, the hospital wanted to keep her in where she wasn't allowed visitors and was clearly not going to last long as the Covid had badly affected her copd. At least she was able to be in her own bed for her last two weeks surrounded by family and in peace. My Neice said she just slipped away an hour or so ago.
> 
> Such a pity we have only known about each other for two and a half years


So sorry to hear that. Sending love and sympathy to you and your family.


----------



## Calvine

Blackadder said:


> Why is it grim? Nobody knows anything about it yet.


True; and it's hardly worth reading about it as you get so many conflicting opinions that you are no wiser.


----------



## MollySmith

I am very sorry to hear your sad news @Siskin


----------



## MollySmith

Blackadder said:


> Why is it grim? Nobody knows anything about it yet.


_*I *_think it's grim.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've just been listening BJ....

So I'm only going out once before Christmas and that's December 21st and that will be at when they open 6am, just to get things I want to pick myself for for over the Christmas.


Still waiting for my booster and flue jab.


----------



## kimthecat

Glad there's no lockdown yet. Wearing masks in shops etc which is what we should be doing anyway.


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've just been listening BJ....
> 
> So I'm only going out once before Christmas and that's December 21st and that will be at when they open 6am, just to get things I want to pick myself for for over the Christmas.
> 
> Still waiting for my booster and flue jab.


I'm so sorry you're still waiting. Me too - they're opening up walk in places from Monday here, so the place I went to for vaccine 1 and 2 was booking only, but they're changed it to get us in. It maybe worth a check? I shall try on Monday.

I can't get hold of flu at all.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> Glad there's no lockdown yet. Wearing masks in shops etc which is what we should be doing anyway.


So if we go to cafes without a mask and eat chocolate cake and tea, wine and beer at the pub - we're all okay? if we go to a shop and _buy_ a cake, we have to wear a mask? Is there a secret power in homemade cake that we're not being told about. 

*but I have also been wearing mine anyway*


----------



## lullabydream

@Siskin sorry to hear about your sister. Such a sad time for your family, blessing she was at home with family though.


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> Just heard that my half sister has died.
> Although she caught Covid in hospital recently she seemed to get over it and was deemed clear. Her family fought tooth and nail to get her home, the hospital wanted to keep her in where she wasn't allowed visitors and was clearly not going to last long as the Covid had badly affected her copd. At least she was able to be in her own bed for her last two weeks surrounded by family and in peace. My Neice said she just slipped away an hour or so ago.
> 
> Such a pity we have only known about each other for two and a half years


I'm very sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences.


----------



## £54etgfb6

I wish Scotland would close the border to England entirely. We have no cases currently but we will soon, of course we will. Although it’s probably harsh and impractical I am frustrated with this constant back and forth with restrictions and covid case rates.
While I recognise people’s need to travel for work, the fact that people have been allowed to travel abroad for holidays during parts of this pandemic is beyond me. There will be no control over covid case rates if there is no containment of virus spread. I haven’t listened to the press conference and it will probably take me a couple of days to read up about it but I’m sure it will annoy me.

Thankfully, when picking a choice for my Honours project I picked one that doesn’t require me to step foot in a lab, so any stricter restrictions won’t affect my education- something my entire future depends upon.

edit to add- since this mentions the press conference and political control over borders please let me know if this is too political for this thread  will remove if so


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> So if we go to cafes without a mask and eat chocolate cake and tea, wine and beer at the pub - we're all okay? if we go to a shop and _buy_ a cake, we have to wear a mask? Is there a secret power in homemade cake that we're not being told about.
> 
> *but I have also been wearing mine anyway*


I see your point but for vulnerable people perhaps have to do shopping in stores but they dont have to go to cafes. Im not against a lockdown. It might come to that with the new variant. It doesn't really affect me if there is another lockdown , I don't go to work or go out much so I'm all right Jack.

How did lockdown affect you ?

Last year , I was worried for myself and was glad there was lockdown . I never really thought how much it affected others and reading about how it has ruined peoples lives , committing suicide , becoming homeless because they cant pay the rent , getting into debt . It seems to be a choice between the Devil and the deep blue sea. One can just hope that more people become inoculated and lockdown wont be necessary.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I prefer to increase safety measures over foreign travel, than imposing a lockdown here.

I haven’t seen the 3 remaining members of my family since Jan 2020 but the health and well-being of them and of my immediate family and myself have to come before getting on a flight for 10 hours and travelling abroad. We just have to make do with WhatsApp to stay in touch. It’s just not worth the risk to travel at the moment.

We need to preserve our own economy and even with adequate supplies of vaccine, we have no control over other countries’ handling of Covid etc.

This new variant isn’t really a surprise, is it?


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> So if we go to cafes without a mask and eat chocolate cake and tea, wine and beer at the pub - we're all okay? if we go to a shop and _buy_ a cake, we have to wear a mask? Is there a secret power in homemade cake that we're not being told about.


BTW it wasnt just cafes shut , was it? Schools and unis shut, museums , unessential shops , charity shops , zoos and animal rescues, funerals and weddings affected with limited attendance.. not being able to travel to see relatives. It had to be done , I suppose but I cant see people accepting it now.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I prefer to increase safety measures over foreign travel than a lockdown here.
> 
> I haven't seen the 3 remaining members of my family since Jan 2020 but the health and well-being of them and of my immediate family and myself have to come before getting on a flight for 10 hours and travelling abroad. We just have to make do with WhatsApp to stay in touch. It's just not worth the risk to travel at the moment.
> 
> We need to preserve our own economy and even with adequate supplies of vaccine, we have no control over other countries' handling of Covid etc.
> 
> This new variant isn't really a surprise, is it?


I haven't seen my son and DIL since May 2019 and my granddaughter since Christmas of the same year. Their health is far more important than my seeing them.

I'm very conscious being in my 80's my days are numbered, so for me the name of the game is outliving the virus rather than the virus outliving me!


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> BTW it wasnt just cafes shut , was it? Schools and unis shut, museums , unessential shops , charity shops , zoos and animal rescues, funerals and weddings affected with limited attendance.. not being able to travel to see relatives. It had to be done , I suppose but I cant see people accepting it now.


As we have been told it takes 7 years for a pandemic to "settle" then locking down isn't practical imo.

Reintroducing mandatory masks, etc is a worthwhile precaution.

As are the increased restrictions if people still choose to travel abroad … they still have a choice whether to or not, but they will need to factor in the added procedures and additional costs and decide if it's worth it.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> Wearing masks in shops etc which is what we should be doing anyway


But this really gets me - buses and most shops never removed their signage about face coverings, TFL still play a recorded message ''You *MUST* (emphasised) wear a face covering when travelling on . . . . it's for everybody's safety'', but it's ignored by many. The guy in my local corner shop, as nice as he is, has a sign on the door, accompanied by a face with a mask (in case you are in any doubt about the meaning of the sentence). He himself wears a mask maybe once a week as far as I can see - and he sells them! Was on the bus last week and many people were not wearing them; some guy (no mask) got on and sat next to me and I asked him quite loudly if he could sit next to someone else, maybe one of the people not wearing one. I expected a mouthful, but no, he dutifully got up and sloped off with his tail between his legs; reminded me of a puppy when it is castigated for chewing the heel of a shoe. But the so-called ''security men'' in shops don't say a word when a whole family appears without a mask; they just keep on faffing with their phones. They don't even seem to walk round the shop to see what people might be stealing.


----------



## rona

Was listening to the news very early this morning and they had a "covid" doctor from Pertoria, and she said that at the moment Omicron is a mild form of covid and as far as she knew in her area, (the epicenter) no one had been hospitalised.
She even said that she'd had two vulnerable patients with it who only had mild symptoms. Most apparently get over it in 48 hours.

It's still of concern for the future, as it is highly transmissible and has significant changes, but as it is now, it's not imminently concerning.

Not sure if this is true, but they say no one has died from it yet 
https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...ic-but-no-reported-deaths-yet-20211128-p59cuf


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Was listening to the news very early this morning and they had a "covid" doctor from Pertoria, and she said that at the moment Omicron is a mild form of covid and as far as she knew in her area, (the epicenter) no one had been hospitalised.
> She even said that she'd had two vulnerable patients with it who only had mild symptoms. Most apparently get over it in 48 hours.
> 
> It's still of concern for the future, as it is highly transmissible and has significant changes, but as it is now, it's not imminently concerning.
> 
> Not sure if this is true, but they say no one has died from it yet
> https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...ic-but-no-reported-deaths-yet-20211128-p59cuf


Better be safe than sorry, they left it too later with the Delta variant we don't that to happen again, so what ever we need to do I'll do it.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Better be safe than sorry, they left it too later with the Delta variant we don't that to happen again, so what ever we need to do I'll do it.


Oh I agree wholeheartedly, I just wanted to try and alleviate peoples worries a little, as the press seem to be catastrophising as usual

I know how much this will be panicking my sister


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Oh I agree wholeheartedly, I just wanted to try and alleviate peoples worries a little, as the press seem to be catastrophising as usual
> 
> I know how much this will be panicking my sister


You are right of cause the press and TV are going overdrive again and it does worry people. As long as we do what we are told and I think they should have mentioned hand sanitising and social distancing again,


----------



## Blackadder

Happy Paws2 said:


> Better be safe than sorry, they left it too later with the Delta variant we don't that to happen again, so what ever we need to do I'll do it.


The whole world has spent 2 years doing what it thinks it needs to do & where are we? Lockdowns don't work, I seriously doubt masks have any great effect, Covid passports are a complete nonsense.... the only thing that has had a big impact is the Vaccine!

To me, it's a case of Governments wanting to be seen doing something....whether it actually has a positive effect seems to be irrelevant.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I know how much this will be panicking my sister


 I know; for some people it's a real nightmare. I've a friend in Norfolk and she is constantly terrified of doing anything, going anywhere. I keep sending her texts to cheer her up, and she is so grateful it's quite sad; she reckons the only time she laughs is when I text her - how sad is that? 
DM already has its ''Christmas Crisis'' headline. Is it any wonder some people can't cope? And the way they talk about Christmas and dangle it like a carrot - if you're good and wear a mask, Christmas will be fine, don't worry, kiddies, (as if we will all jump, lemming-like, over a cliff if Christmas goes down the pan again).


----------



## Siskin

My SIL was telling me that she was on a train recently and no one around her was wearing a mask when she went and sat down. Many of them had masks on the table in front of them - that works doesn’t it? When she sat down wearing her mask they all put theirs on rather sheepishly, so she managed to guilt trip and entire carriage


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I see your point but for vulnerable people perhaps have to do shopping in stores but they dont have to go to cafes. Im not against a lockdown. It might come to that with the new variant. It doesn't really affect me if there is another lockdown , I don't go to work or go out much so I'm all right Jack.
> 
> How did lockdown affect you ?
> 
> Last year , I was worried for myself and was glad there was lockdown . I never really thought how much it affected others and reading about how it has ruined peoples lives , committing suicide , becoming homeless because they cant pay the rent , getting into debt . It seems to be a choice between the Devil and the deep blue sea. One can just hope that more people become inoculated and lockdown wont be necessary.


I was being cynical - it doesn't take much to wear a mask in a cafe or a pub as a preventative measure towards _avoiding_ lock down which affected everyone.


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Was listening to the news very early this morning and they had a "covid" doctor from Pertoria, and she said that at the moment Omicron is a mild form of covid and as far as she knew in her area, (the epicenter) no one had been hospitalised.
> She even said that she'd had two vulnerable patients with it who only had mild symptoms. Most apparently get over it in 48 hours.
> 
> It's still of concern for the future, as it is highly transmissible and has significant changes, but as it is now, it's not imminently concerning.
> 
> Not sure if this is true, but they say no one has died from it yet
> https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...ic-but-no-reported-deaths-yet-20211128-p59cuf


That's really interesting. The narrative so far is that it's worse but now you mention it, when I reflect, it is about the _transmissible_ not the fatality as you mention as nobody has actually passed away from that variant. It'll be interesting (well not really, it's horrific) to see how it unfolds if it does.


----------



## Cully

So sorry to hear your sad news @Siskin . It's never good to hear but especially at this time of year.


----------



## simplysardonic

So sorry about your sister @Siskin


----------



## lullabydream

I urge those who say don't be worried about the virus to watch John Campbell video today..as he puts it gives some objectivity to it. There are 2 sides to the story as always about this virus, so nice that the media is using the positive aspect.





You can read what he says in his description if you go straight to YouTube, he is really good at sharing the information.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> I urge those who say don't be worried about the virus to watch John Campbell video today..as he puts it gives some objectivity to it. There are 2 sides to the story as always about this virus, so nice that the media is using the positive aspect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can read what he says in his description if you go straight to YouTube, he is really good at sharing the information.


That was very interesting, I've subscribed to his channel now and refusing to read the comments or I'm in danger of throwing the iPad through the window in frustration


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> The whole world has spent 2 years doing what it thinks it needs to do & where are we? Lockdowns don't work, I seriously doubt masks have any great effect, Covid passports are a complete nonsense.... the only thing that has had a big impact is the Vaccine!
> 
> To me, it's a case of Governments wanting to be seen doing something....whether it actually has a positive effect seems to be irrelevant.


Lockdown served its purpose. The idea was to bring Covid numbers down and keep people out of hospital to stop the NHS being overwhelmed , keep vulnerable people safe and I think it did that. So many people breaking lockdown didn't help , crowded beaches , illegal raves , demonstrations . We're still a long way from everybody being vaccinated , 2.5 million people arent vaccinated in London alone but hopefully they will get them done as quickly as possible except those who dont want them done. .
We have tests for covid too now though whether they are accurate or not I dont know. 
I think covid passports area good idea but again many people wont accept that ,


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> That was very interesting, I've subscribed to his channel now and refusing to read the comments or I'm in danger of throwing the iPad through the window in frustration


He's really good, and keeps showing guest appearances he makes all over the world.

He has shown the cases of bad reactions to vaccine, but from his background he's discussed in theory about aspirating when vaccinating. He's quite vocal on it, not that the vaccine won't have side effects but the handful of people say they 'taste' a chemical as soon as vaccinated which usually means the vaccine has hit a blood vessel not the muscle as intended.


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> He's really good, and keeps showing guest appearances he makes all over the world.
> 
> He has shown the cases of bad reactions to vaccine, but from his background he's discussed in theory about aspirating when vaccinating. He's quite vocal on it, not that the vaccine won't have side effects but the handful of people say they 'taste' a chemical as soon as vaccinated which usually means the vaccine has hit a blood vessel not the muscle as intended.


I was wondering what he meant about aspirating. I've not had a chemical taste, but the booster jab did bleed more then it should initially and I had quite a raised lump appear at the site


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> I was being cynical - it doesn't take much to wear a mask in a cafe or a pub as a preventative measure towards _avoiding_ lock down which affected everyone.


So how did lockdown affect you ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

Blackadder said:


> The whole world has spent 2 years doing what it thinks it needs to do & where are we? Lockdowns don't work, I seriously doubt masks have any great effect, Covid passports are a complete nonsense.... the only thing that has had a big impact is the Vaccine!
> 
> To me, it's a case of Governments wanting to be seen doing something....whether it actually has a positive effect seems to be irrelevant.


Unfortunately, a lot of people have not been sticking to the rules which must have had an impact on the spread.

Even during the Lockdown there were people I know who flouted the rules.

We are still asked to wear masks, but the majority do not.

I continue to wear a mask indoors and in crowded spaces, but the science tells me it actually protects other people from my germs more than it protects me from theirs.

If the people coughing close by me today have Covid and had been wearing masks, maybe they haven't passed it to me.

I hope so.

I'm still using hand sanitiser too … every little helps imo.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> I continue to wear a mask indoors and in crowded spaces
> 
> I'm still using hand sanitiser too … every little helps imo.


I am too, but haven't seen anyone else use sanitiser for months. 
Went into a solicitors office on Friday, pokey little place with narrow corridors, and they were all moving around with no masks.One even squeezed past me


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Was listening to the news very early this morning and they had a "covid" doctor from Pertoria, and she said that at the moment Omicron is a mild form of covid and as far as she knew in her area, (the epicenter) no one had been hospitalised.
> She even said that she'd had two vulnerable patients with it who only had mild symptoms. Most apparently get over it in 48 hours.
> 
> It's still of concern for the future, as it is highly transmissible and has significant changes, but as it is now, it's not imminently concerning.
> 
> Not sure if this is true, but they say no one has died from it yet
> https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...ic-but-no-reported-deaths-yet-20211128-p59cuf


Doesn't that fit with the fact that viruses are most successful when they don't kill their hosts? Look at the common cold for a case in point.

So more transmissible often means milder affect on people.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Doesn't that fit with the fact that viruses are most successful when they don't kill their hosts? Look at the common cold for a case in point.
> 
> So more transmissible often means milder affect on people.


Yes...also virus competes with other virus by mutation. So in this scenario, it's been said because the delta virus was more successful, probably due to transmission. This meant that a virus that was occuring in Africa, can't remember where was contained and iradicated so to speak. Which is amazing as Africa has very little vaccinated people compared especially to the developed continient


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> but now you mention it, when I reflect, it is about the _transmissible_ not the fatality


This is what is what is confusing me somewhat. If, as we have (now) heard, it can travel quickly, but then do no harm and show few or no symptoms, even among the 'vulnerable' - why the newly imposed restrictions? I have also read that they are now suggesting getting the booster (ie the third vaccination) done earlier than the previously suggested six months to combat this Botswana variant. Why, if it is really so mild that you don't know you've got it?. And, incidentally, are these 'new restrictions' the famous 'Plan B'? It's just that that some of us don't even know what 'Plan A' was.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> This is what is what is confusing me somewhat. If, as we have (now) heard, it can travel quickly, but then do no harm and show few or no symptoms, even among the 'vulnerable' - why the newly imposed restrictions? I have also read that they are now suggesting getting the booster (ie the third vaccination) done earlier than the previously suggested six months to combat this Botswana variant. Why, if it is really so mild that you don't know you've got it?. And, incidentally, are these 'new restrictions' the famous 'Plan B'? It's just that that some of us don't even know what 'Plan A' was.


Is it our scientists who say it's not so harmful?

If not, I'd rather show caution and assume it's serious until they have had time to be sure it's not tbh.


----------



## Siskin

Have you watched the video that @lullabydream posted, may answer some of your questions.

It does appear to be a milder version, but……

It's milder for those that are vaccinated, the younger you are seem to be the ones that are more affected by it and if you are unvaccinated as well then it's a great deal more severe and many sufferers are hospitalised
However all this is initial findings, anything could change over the next few weeks. So what do you do? Leave it until you see what the virus does and risk a whole lot of people getting seriously ill or do you do something now and risk it fizzling out to nothing. Whatever you do Sod's law says it will be the wrong choice.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> This is what is what is confusing me somewhat. If, as we have (now) heard, it can travel quickly, but then do no harm and show few or no symptoms, even among the 'vulnerable' - why the newly imposed restrictions? I have also read that they are now suggesting getting the booster (ie the third vaccination) done earlier than the previously suggested six months to combat this Botswana variant. Why, if it is really so mild that you don't know you've got it?. And, incidentally, are these 'new restrictions' the famous 'Plan B'? It's just that that some of us don't even know what 'Plan A' was.


If the new mutation is more contagious this means that the virus can spread more rapidly. With more hosts and a faster spread this allows the virus more opportunities to replicate and therefore mutate. Regardless of symptom severity (I haven't looked it up yet) a main concern will be that the more cases there are the higher chance of a mutation that is advantageous to the virus (and harmful for us) developing.


----------



## rona

World Health Organization statement
https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron


----------



## Happy Paws2

No one seems to know for certain how this variant is going to behave, so the only thing is to treat as dangerous until we know the facts. We can't just keep our fingers crossed and hope, peoples lives could be at risk.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> This is what is what is confusing me somewhat. If, as we have (now) heard, it can travel quickly, but then do no harm and show few or no symptoms, even among the 'vulnerable' - why the newly imposed restrictions? I have also read that they are now suggesting getting the booster (ie the third vaccination) done earlier than the previously suggested six months to combat this Botswana variant. Why, if it is really so mild that you don't know you've got it?. And, incidentally, are these 'new restrictions' the famous 'Plan B'? It's just that that some of us don't even know what 'Plan A' was.


I assume it's to prevent further mutations as the more hosts it can reach, the more chance of that.

Edit - apologies, didn't read @bmr10 's reply before I posted.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> World Health Organization statement
> https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron


So basically, they don't really know much and to carry on with the standard safety measures that are already advised?

Social distancing.
Masks.
Ventilation.
Don't cough and sneeze on folk.

WHO - useful as always...


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> No one seems to know for certain how this variant is going to behave, so the only thing is to treat as dangerous until we know the facts. We can't just keep our fingers crossed and hope, peoples lives could be at risk.


On TV this morning a scientist stated that the JCVI were still working to ascertain this … so yes, it's sensible to proceed with caution.

When Delta wasn't shut down immediately the authorities were criticised.

Sadly, they don't have a crystal ball.

If people want to avoid long term restrictions and Lockdowns, more serious illness and deaths, then common sense must prevail.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> If people want to avoid long term restrictions and Lockdowns, more serious illness and deaths, then common sense must prevail.


I agree, but there are so many people who think "It won't happen to me" and not bother wearing masks and common sense goes out the window.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I agree, but there are so many people who think "It won't happen to me" and not bother wearing masks and common sense goes out the window.


And oddly, it's them getting angry at us.........bit twisted that, as they are putting our lives at risk, not the other way round


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> And oddly, it's them getting angry at us.........bit twisted that, as they are putting our lives at risk, not the other way round


That's right...I'm wearing a mask to protect you so why aren't wearing one to protect me. 
Maybe BJ should make more of that of that when he speaks to us, I think some people think it's just to protect themselves not that they may be spreading it around.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> So how did lockdown affect you ?


Wearing a mask in retail and hospitality may _*avoid*_ lockdown is my point. I'm sure how to make that clear? I hope I am! Apologies if I am not.

I'm not pro-lockdown but if the government keep us on 'lite' measures I wonder how long we can avoid it? Christmas feels like it's a carrot when really we want to survive for more Christmases to come. I suppose the positive is the vaccine but there's the issue not just of lockdowns but protecting the NHS, shown through @Mrs Funkin's posts.

Lock down was awful as it was for all in some way I run a business so loss of income and had to give up office space. I work in the room that was meant to be my child's bedroom, something I wanted to avoid. We suffered deaths in our family and friends early on having only just endured the death of my grandmother, anxiety (still), isolation and insomnia. I also provide mental health support and that became too much at times.

It's been awful for everyone in one way or another. The more we can do in our behaviour to avoid it, the better. That's why I queried the advice, I've been wearing masks everywhere but was shocked and worried by the one and only pub visit I have made since March 2020 to find it was business as normal. Only my table wore a mask and it was the week the open windows advice came out and I kept that image in my head of the adverts and thought... wear a mask and open a window?! Seemed more logical to me as it has from 'freedom day'.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> This is what is what is confusing me somewhat. If, as we have (now) heard, it can travel quickly, but then do no harm and show few or no symptoms, even among the 'vulnerable' - why the newly imposed restrictions? I have also read that they are now suggesting getting the booster (ie the third vaccination) done earlier than the previously suggested six months to combat this Botswana variant. Why, if it is really so mild that you don't know you've got it?. And, incidentally, are these 'new restrictions' the famous 'Plan B'? It's just that that some of us don't even know what 'Plan A' was.


It is a clear as mud and goodness me it's a morning of experts on the news. I also have no idea what plan A was (secretly I think it's herd immunity and an over reliance on the vaccine). Ultimately it may solve it but taking precautions helps the NHS.

I tried to get my booster today having be told by the NHS app to go, and told to come back next week as the cut off for walk-ins (the date of the second jab) was 31st May.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> So basically, they don't really know much and to carry on with the standard safety measures that are already advised?
> 
> Social distancing.
> Masks.
> Ventilation.
> Don't cough and sneeze on folk.
> 
> WHO - useful as always...


What else do you want them to say? Their crystal ball works just as well as everyone elses when it comes to what the new variant will be like, and the best methods of restricting the spread of viruses isn't going to change. Better that they remain consistant and honest in their message, even if does get repetitive.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> What else do you want them to say? Their crystal ball works just as well as everyone elses when it comes to what the new variant will be like, and the best methods of restricting the spread of viruses isn't going to change. Better that they remain consistant and honest in their message, even if does get repetitive.


And yet people are convinced the government _does _have that crystal ball....

Wrong thread? Sorry


----------



## Happy Paws2

If all the information is confusing then just go back to the basics.... wear masks, wash your hands, use hand sanitisers. social distancing. Do they have to spell it out to us, we should be able to work this out for ourselves.


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> If all the information is confusing then just go back to the basics...


I think thats what they are telling us to do and it makes sense. Whilst it would be great to know how big a risk this new variant is now the truth is that we arent going to know if a big threat until its too late (if we dont take precautions). It takes time to gather data, esp when that data isnt available until its actually happened!

Although I could do without the scaremongering from the press...that never helps things!


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> And yet people are convinced the government _does _have that crystal ball....
> 
> Wrong thread? Sorry


Never said they had a crystal ball. Just that they seem determind to frequently ignore basic and long established medical advice and warnings from the NHS, and change their message so often that everyone is confused and few people trust them. If they'd have stuck to maintaining the basics of requiring mask wearing and social distancing, they might have a bit more credibility with the wider public


----------



## £54etgfb6

Happy Paws2 said:


> If all the information is confusing then just go back to the basics.... wear masks, wash your hands, use hand sanitisers. social distancing. Do they have to spell it out to us, we should be able to work this out for ourselves.


While I think common sense and compassion should be enough to prompt people to follow guidelines it clearly isn't and some people _do_ need to be told by the government, establishments they try to enter, the TV, the papers, the NHS, etc. Additionally, for the people that don't want to follow guidelines then all of these messages from different sources can help pressure them into doing so. When mask-wearing is voluntary instead of a legal requirement, fewer people wear them. I don't personally think people should only do things because if they don't they'll be breaking the law but I guess for some people that is their mindset.


----------



## Calvine

Price of Covid testing kits set to soar in wake of new omicron rules (telegraph.co.uk)
It's really so unfair . . . it's like black market profiteering during the war: ''You want it, we can supply it at a price''. Sharks.


----------



## MollySmith

Curious that the Dutch found 13 out of 61 passengers with Omicron on a flight from South Africa last Friday, but we've only found 9 ? cases so far in the UK, in spite of having had just as many flights from SA, and a rugby match? Is our reporting not as good?

Briefing on TV now.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Wearing a mask in retail and hospitality may _*avoid*_ lockdown is my point. I'm sure how to make that clear? I hope I am! Apologies if I am not.
> .


???? Thanks for your long post but I got your point long ago. BTW that was my original point too , Your reply doesn't correspond to the simple question I asked you which was How did lockdown affect you. Never mind , lets move on!


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## Blackadder

It's also an anagram of Moronic!


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> It's also an anagram of Moronic!


:Hilarious They missed the fact that the R is in the wrong place!


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> ???? Thanks for your long post but I got your point long ago. BTW that was my original point too , Your reply doesn't correspond to the simple question I asked you which was How did lockdown affect you. Never mind , lets move on!


Let's move on because my tiny brain is very confused (and a bit worried if I complete missed a point? Clearly yes, I'm hopeless at cryptic crosswords too)


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Let's move on because my tiny brain is very confused (and a bit worried if I complete missed a point? Clearly yes, I'm hopeless at cryptic crosswords too)


----------



## Calvine

In the supermarket today, the day when we are supposed to make sure we wear a mask. Eight self-service tills; only two of us wearing masks. NO messages played to remind people. It's a joke.


----------



## mrs phas

My sons stepson ( not allowed to call him my grandchild, her rule) has tested positive on lateral flow test 
They won't get the other 'proper' test til post comes tomorrow, 
Unbelievably they then have to put completed tests, for all of them, into the post box, for postie to pick up with rest of post, for it to go to sorting office and mix with post from all over the place, possibly going worldwide 
that can't be right, can it?
It is simply a way, if, God forbid, it's positive, to spread the virus wider and quicker?
All the post would be contaminated surely

Someone tell me I'm wrong


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> My sons stepson ( not allowed to call him my grandchild, her rule) has tested positive on lateral flow test
> They won't get the other 'proper' test til post comes tomorrow,
> Unbelievably they then have to put completed tests, for all of them, into the post box, for postie to pick up with rest of post, for it to go to sorting office and mix with post from all over the place, possibly going worldwide
> that can't be right, can it?
> It is simply a way, if, God forbid, it's positive, to spread the virus wider and quicker?
> All the post would be contaminated surely
> 
> Someone tell me I'm wrong


Given that the virus can't remain viable outside of a host for prolonged periods of time, it's unlikely to be a problem. They wouldn't be doing it that way if it were.


----------



## JoanneF

I did a PCR test when we came back from France that needed to be sent away for testing. The swab goes in a tube, that tube goes in a second tube, then that gets sealed in a bag.

The bag goes in a box, then the box goes into another sealed bag. So you have 5 layers or barriers between the sample and anyone handling it.


----------



## £54etgfb6

mrs phas said:


> My sons stepson ( not allowed to call him my grandchild, her rule) has tested positive on lateral flow test
> They won't get the other 'proper' test til post comes tomorrow,
> Unbelievably they then have to put completed tests, for all of them, into the post box, for postie to pick up with rest of post, for it to go to sorting office and mix with post from all over the place, possibly going worldwide
> that can't be right, can it?
> It is simply a way, if, God forbid, it's positive, to spread the virus wider and quicker?
> All the post would be contaminated surely
> 
> Someone tell me I'm wrong


The virus has been shown to survive on fomites for varying lengths of time but there is no data showing a significant risk of transmission to humans via this route. The primary route of transmission is airborne!  Hand sanitisers, antimicrobial surfaces, and disinfecting regularly are good practices in general and are used because it's not possible to rule out the possibility of a fomite transmission pathway currently *but* the established major route of transmission is not this pathway. There are no known documented cases of infection from surfaces (an incredibly difficult and impractical thing to try to document in fairness) but there are anecdotal stories of it.


----------



## mrs phas

Thank you all 
I've been to hubs and had the test, but never had to do home one 
Praying very hard that it's a false positive, he was only 13 at weekend, and I don't give a flying fig what she says, I love him like he was my own,


----------



## 3dogs2cats

I am sick of flipping home carers not wearing masks or if they do slung under their chin, I get it must be annoying having to work in a mask all day and of course they can make communication difficult with clients who's hearing is so good but I'm fairly certain carers in care home settings are expected to wear them so why not domiciliary carers!


----------



## Cleo38

I went to London a couple of weeks ago & had my mask with me but chose not to wear it. A fraction of people on the train were wearing one, had someone asked me to wear it then I would have if they were worried.

On the tube it was so hot that again I didn't wear one & again despite there being signs up most people were not wearing one. If I have to start wearing a mask again then I will but given the option I don't


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> I went to London a couple of weeks ago & had my mask with me but chose not to wear it. A fraction of people on the train were wearing one, had someone asked me to wear it then I would have if they were worried.
> 
> On the tube it was so hot that again I didn't wear one & again despite there being signs up most people were not wearing one. If I have to start wearing a mask again then I will but given the option I don't


Sorry just because others aren't wearing one doesn't mean you don't have too, you should be think of protecting others and wear one!


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> Sorry just because others aren't wearing one doesn't mean you don't have too, you should be think of protecting others and wear one!


Maybe ... but personally I don't believe wearing a flimsy bit of material over my face is making any difference. I also have been vaccinated & others should be aswell. If those who feel wearing a mask protects them then they are already wearing one so it doesn't make much difference if I'm not.

Tbh I get on with my life as normal now.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe ... but personally I don't believe wearing a flimsy bit of material over my face is making any difference. I also have been vaccinated & others should be aswell. If those who feel wearing a mask protects them then they are already wearing one so it doesn't make much difference if I'm not.
> 
> Tbh I get on with my life as normal now.


 But wearing a mask it's just to protect you, it's to protect others from you.


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> But wearing a mask it's just to protect you, it's to protect others from you.


Again, I dont believe that flimsy fabric masks offer any protection.

I think most people seem to be sick of wearing masks so now choose not to if given a choice. If I absolutely have to then I will.


----------



## kimthecat

It seems some of the major stores arent going to enforce the mask rule due abuse to their staff. 
i dont find it a hardship to wear a mask. At first , sometimes if I was stressed , I would have to pull it down for a few seconds to stop me panicking but I seem to be ok now and forget to take it off when I leave the building.


----------



## Blackadder

*The average number of COVID-19 deaths reported each day in Germany has been increasing for 10 days straight*
COVID-19 infections in Germany are at their peak - the highest daily average reported - now at 59,678 new infections reported each day.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/germany/

This is a country which has mandated medical grade masks in public since January, they don't seem to be doing very well!

If proper, well fitting FFP type masks aren't stopping it I fail to see how the cheap, pale blue things that are common here (or a bit of fabric) will make any difference at all.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe ... but personally I don't believe wearing a flimsy bit of material over my face is making any difference. I also have been vaccinated & others should be aswell. If those who feel wearing a mask protects them then they are already wearing one so it doesn't make much difference if I'm not.
> 
> Tbh I get on with my life as normal now.


Have you looked up scientific data regarding mask-wearing?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mSphere.00637-20
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7#Sec12

All of these open-access articles support the argument that masks of varying materials help prevent the transmission of viruses via both airborne and droplet pathways. If you've already read the evidence supporting mask-wearing and you can argue against it then fair dues. If it's purely because you haven't been forced to wear one then I do wonder how a piece of material can be so bothersome (providing you do not have medical conditions that make you exempt).

I had to have my booster and flu jab today and I am petrified of needles. Before I got in the building I was crying and once the nurse actually saw me I had to be taken to another room, being asked to lie down because I was having a panic attack and couldn't breathe. She asked me if I wanted to take my mask off but I kept it on as I do not have respiratory issues and so wearing a mask does not hinder my breathing. Also, I have had enough panic attacks in my life that I know the process and I know I will eventually regain breathing control, mask or not. She spent about 15+ minutes calming me down and I cried so much to the point that when I did leave the building, the inside of my mask was dripping with tears and snot. And yet, the outward-facing side was bone dry.

While masks don't provide 100% protection (nothing does including the vaccines) the evidence *does* show that it provides a level of protection to others. Would you be comfortable if your surgeon forwent a mask during a procedure? Personally, I would not.

Managing this pandemic should not rely on one singular intervention such as vaccines otherwise we will be stuck in this situation until enough people have a significant level of immunity (through vaccines or previous infection) or those not able to develop immunity die off. Wearing masks add a further level of protection and you should bear in mind that many people are not able to receive the vaccine so masks also help protect those individuals.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Maybe too there are other reasons why Germany is having so many cases now?

Perhaps they were following mask rules in public, because they were enforced, but mixing Willy Nilly away from prying eyes?

Mask wearing is just one aid to preventing the spread …


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe ... but personally I don't believe wearing a flimsy bit of material over my face is making any difference. I also have been vaccinated & others should be aswell. If those who feel wearing a mask protects them then they are already wearing one so it doesn't make much difference if I'm not.
> 
> Tbh I get on with my life as normal now.


The primary purpose of a mask is to protect those around you from any germs YOU may have. If that doesn't work, then someone should tell surgeons and operating theater staff...

Because of the vaccinations, many more cases of Covid are likely to be minimal symptoms or asymptomatic (and COvid can be spread before symptoms develop too), so wearing a mask is still just as important, if not more so


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> The primary purpose of a mask is to protect those around you from any germs YOU may have. If that doesn't work, then someone should tell surgeons and operating theater staff...
> 
> Because of the vaccinations, many more cases of Covid are likely to be minimal symptoms or asymptomatic (and COvid can be spread before symptoms develop too), so wearing a mask is still just as important, if not more so


 Surgeons do not wear cheap, flimsy fabric masks tho. If it were official PPE then fine ... but it's not 

And, as I said if I have to wear one or if someone asked me to then I would but given a choice I don't


----------



## stuaz

Cleo38 said:


> Surgeons do not wear cheap, flimsy fabric masks tho. If it were official PPE then fine ... but it's not
> 
> And, as I said if I have to wear one or if someone asked me to then I would but given a choice I don't


Even a flimsy fabric mask will prevent some air particles from being launched forward, anything piece of fabric or obstruction to the airways would, not as much as a hospital grade mask would, in the same way a full on hazmat suit would do better than a N95 mask, etc etc


----------



## SbanR

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe too there are other reasons why Germany is having so many cases now?
> 
> Perhaps they were following mask rules in public, because they were enforced, but mixing Willy Nilly away from prying eyes?
> 
> Mask wearing is just one aid to preventing the spread …





Cleo38 said:


> Surgeons do not wear cheap, flimsy fabric masks tho. If it were official PPE then fine ... but it's not
> 
> And, as I said if I have to wear one or if someone asked me to then I would but given a choice I don't


But would "someone" have the courage to ask you to wear one? 
I certainly don't and there's invariably several on every bus whenever I've been to town to do my weekly shop.


----------



## Cleo38

SbanR said:


> But would "someone" have the courage to ask you to wear one?
> I certainly don't and there's invariably several on every bus whenever I've been to town to do my weekly shop.


Then that's up to them. When I was out with my sister a while ago a lady in shop asked us to put masks on. Apparently there was a sign but we just didn't see it. She asked politely, we apologised & did as requested, no dramas. If I were in a carriage with one person, or if someone sat next to me then I might ask them if they wanted me to wear a mask as I do when I have been in taxis (for example). I'm no being completely ignorant to others


----------



## Lurcherlad

SbanR said:


> But would "someone" have the courage to ask you to wear one?
> I certainly don't and there's invariably several on every bus whenever I've been to town to do my weekly shop.


I wouldn't challenge anyone not wearing a mask either.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> Surgeons do not wear cheap, flimsy fabric masks tho. If it were official PPE then fine ... but it's not
> 
> And, as I said if I have to wear one or if someone asked me to then I would but given a choice I don't


Surgeons do wear surgical masks, if that's what you're referring to. The stereotypically blue ones with the non-adjustable (usually) loops. It is most definitely PPE.

https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/working-for-us/staff/covid-staff-faqs-ppe.aspx
*Currently* only staff within 2 metres of an aerosol generating procedure must wear a respirator, everyone else in theatre must wear a surgical mask. This guidance is specific to the pandemic and prior to this staff intubating patients in theatre did not have to wear respirators and a regular surgical mask was fine.

The surgical masks used would be fluid resistant masks tested for medical use. An example is the type IIR mask. NHS guidance detailing the use of type IIR masks for healthcare workers: https://www.nipcm.hps.scot.nhs.uk/media/1690/2020-11-02-sicp-tbp-lr-surgical-masks-v1.pdf

You can buy these at boots and other pharmacies: https://www.boots.com/winner-type-2-medical-face-masks-50-pack-10283372

As these masks are fluid resistant (providing the have a BFE rating higher than 95%, which those I linked do) they protect both the wearer *and *others from viral and bacterial transmission via droplet route. They do not protect the wearer from infection via the airborne route but the articles I linked in my initial reply show evidence that they _do_ protect others from this.

Additionally: I have had numerous procedures in a theatre thanks to my Crohn's and (at least from my 11 years of getting scopes, bowel resections, and feeding tube placements) the surgeons have worn a mask each time. I know this because I ask to meet them before each surgery right after they scrub up whilst I am waiting to go under anaesthetic on the table. This is obviously anecdotal but hopefully the links I have provided are useful in bringing factual evidence behind the argument.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> I wouldn't challenge anyone not wearing a mask either.


I don't have issues with confrontation so I do. It's the law here anyway unless you are medically exempt. My friends volunteer me to do it at the university campus because they're too shy. There are signs all around the campus telling us to speak up or tell someone if something makes us uncomfortable but I can appreciate it's not an easy task when you can't predict how someone will react.

I don't really have the time to get sick and risk my degree just because a group of arrogant students want to sit in the library without their masks on and talking away.


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> I wouldn't challenge anyone not wearing a mask either.


I wouldnt either but I would give them a glare if they got too close.


----------



## Jobeth

I wouldn’t challenge anyone either as I’ve spent the entire pandemic around people instructed not to wear them. As a visitor I’m usually the only one ever wearing a mask.


----------



## Lurcherlad

bmr10 said:


> I don't have issues with confrontation so I do. It's the law here anyway unless you are medically exempt. My friends volunteer me to do it at the university campus because they're too shy. There are signs all around the campus telling us to speak up or tell someone if something makes us uncomfortable but I can appreciate it's not an easy task when you can't predict how someone will react.
> 
> I don't really have the time to get sick and risk my degree just because a group of arrogant students want to sit in the library without their masks on and talking away.


I guess confronting fellow students on a campus is one thing, but strangers in a High Street … er no … not for a missing mask … could turn nasty. I'd just give them a wide berth.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> I guess confronting fellow students on a campus is one thing, but strangers in a High Street … er no … not for a missing mask … could turn nasty. I'd just give them a wide berth.


100% like I said you don't know how someone will react. I wouldn't ask someone to wear a mask unless I was forced to spend a prolonged amount of time with them. Say I was in a waiting room for example. Someone walking past me on the street isn't worth the risk.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Had my booster of Pfizer yesterday.

Very sore arm, but otherwise feel fine


----------



## Lurcherlad

Saw this on a local Facebook page:










Scammers don't miss a trick


----------



## Magyarmum

Mask wearing inside buildings and on public transport has been mandatory in Hungary for around 3 weeks now. 

I had to go into the city on Tuesday to one of the government offices and didn't see anyone NOT wearing a mask and most people wearing them in the street as well.

Yesterday I went shopping in my local town. Same thing everyone wearing masks, even one solitary woman waiting at a bus stop.

It's become the norm over here and with the odd exception people seem to have accepted it as such.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> It seems some of the major stores arent going to enforce the mask rule due abuse to their staff.
> i dont find it a hardship to wear a mask. At first , sometimes if I was stressed , I would have to pull it down for a few seconds to stop me panicking but I seem to be ok now and forget to take it off when I leave the building.


Not that I go out very much but when I do, when I get in the supermarket car park on my mobility scooter I stop and put one one and stays on until I'm almost home.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> Tbh I get on with my life as normal now.


 This is what strikes me too: if every time there is a new variant (and you can bet there are more to come) we have the same old faces spouting the same old advice, then life will never be normal. Many people have had three vaccinations in six months - I have just received a letter with one paragraph written in 32 languages telling me that I have (allegedly) been ''prioritised'' for a booster. Now I know I am not a priority; I received no initial letter from my GP telling me that I should shield, and when it came to the vaccination, I waited in line, I was not prioritised for a vaccination, did not jump the queue. But suddenly I am a ''priority'' and am entitled to an interpreter to book a third shot. They even tried telling me that the third vaccination is part of the primary course. I heard from a friend in Glasgow that the booster there is given SIX months after the two primary shots; are we so different?
There are people already wanting to close schools early for Christmas, despite the fact that some children have virtually missed a year's education (they were running summer schools to try to catch up), and now people are calling for the reintroduction of the furlough scheme, despite it already having cost ???£ 200billion?? - some trifling amount I seem to recall.
I remember at the very beginning of the first lockdown that BJ informed us that we would have ''three weeks of lockdown and the whole thing would be over''. Yeah, right! Agree with @Cleo38 - life goes on. I don't spend much time in overcrowded places, but if I want to go to the cinema or theatre, yes, I'll go confused: if they are still open, that is).


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> I don't spend much time in overcrowded places, but if I want to go to the cinema or theatre, yes, I'll go confused: if they are still open, that is).


That's a choice though isn't it?

I respect your right to choose, but then I feel that you should take all precautions when in a place that others have no choice but to be............shops, public transport, banks, some work environments etc.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> That's a choice though isn't it?
> 
> I respect your right to choose, but then I feel that you should take all precautions when in a place that others have no choice but to be............shops, public transport, banks, some work environments etc.


I do that, and always have. Shops and public transport, vet etc. But I don't expect the world to stop - I think we have to live with it now. And the so-called experts give four or five different opinions, which helps not one jot, so you have to do what you feel is best.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> This is what strikes me too: if every time there is a new variant (and you can bet there are more to come) we have the same old faces spouting the same old advice, then life will never be normal. Many people have had three vaccinations in six months - I have just received a letter with one paragraph written in 32 languages telling me that I have (allegedly) been ''prioritised'' for a booster. Now I know I am not a priority; I received no initial letter from my GP telling me that I should shield, and when it came to the vaccination, I waited in line, I was not prioritised for a vaccination, did not jump the queue. But suddenly I am a ''priority'' and am entitled to an interpreter to book a third shot. They even tried telling me that the third vaccination is part of the primary course. I heard from a friend in Glasgow that the booster there is given SIX months after the two primary shots; are we so different?
> There are people already wanting to close schools early for Christmas, despite the fact that some children have virtually missed a year's education (they were running summer schools to try to catch up), and now people are calling for the reintroduction of the furlough scheme, despite it already having cost ???£ 200billion?? - some trifling amount I seem to recall.
> I remember at the very beginning of the first lockdown that BJ informed us that we would have ''three weeks of lockdown and the whole thing would be over''. Yeah, right! Agree with @Cleo38 - life goes on. I don't spend much time in overcrowded places, but if I want to go to the cinema or theatre, yes, I'll go confused: if they are still open, that is).


I suppose I just don't understand why some people are still putting their lives on hold almost especially when it comes to not seeing relatives. Granted some will have underlying helath concerns, etc & it's all about personal choice but life is short & keep putting things off may mean you don't ever get that opportunity again.

So many people have suffered really badly through these 'rules' regarding lockdown & not seeing friends/family & to keep saying it's in everyone's best interests is not correct IMO.

I avoid places with lots of people (mainly) as I don't live crowds anyway, but am going out with friends over Christmas & will be travelling down to spend time with my family over Christmas regardless of what new restrictions are put in place.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I suppose I just don't understand why some people are still putting their lives on hold almost especially when it comes to not seeing relatives. Granted some will have underlying helath concerns, etc & it's all about personal choice but life is short & keep putting things off may mean you don't ever get that opportunity again.
> 
> So many people have suffered really badly through these 'rules' regarding lockdown & not seeing friends/family & to keep saying it's in everyone's best interests is not correct IMO.
> 
> I avoid places with lots of people (mainly) as I don't live crowds anyway, but am going out with friends over Christmas & will be travelling down to spend time with my family over Christmas regardless of what new restrictions are put in place.


I read they are ordering millions of doses of vaccine for 2022 and 2023 so they must think it's likely here to stay, so yes, we have to live with it, it would seem.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had call from the doctors saying they in my area this weekend doing the boosters and flu jabs so hopefully someone will call Saturday but they are very busy so if no one comes will on not to worry some will come on Sunday. So fingers crossed.


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> Just had call from the doctors saying they in my area this weekend doing the boosters and flu jabs so hopefully someone will call Saturday but they are very busy so if no one comes will on not to worry some will come on Sunday. So fingers crossed.


Hope you'll get your jabs this weekend.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> Hope you'll get your jabs this weekend.


I'll will feel much happier, I feel little safer If I have to go out.


----------



## Arny

Calvine said:


> They even tried telling me that the third vaccination is part of the primary course. I heard from a friend in Glasgow that the booster there is given SIX months after the two primary shots; are we so different?


There are two different things going round where one is a third primary vaccination and the other is the booster.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-3rd-dose/

I do think we'd be in a better place as a whole if we could get more of the world their initial vaccinations instead, what with our uptake being so good.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> There are two different things going round where one is a third primary vaccination and the other is the booster.
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-3rd-dose/
> 
> I do think we'd be in a better place as a whole if we could get more of the world their initial vaccinations instead, what with our uptake being so good.


 They twice described it as a ''booster'' but then also said it was part of the primary course, so all a bit confusing. Absolutely agree that the rest of the world should have the chance, Pfizer and the others making $1000 profit per SECOND (from vaccine alone, without including their other pharma income) I read how many billions they all made at the beginning of the year, it was eye-watering amounts and that they increased the prices mid-year. .But presumably not prepared to drop the price so poorer countries can get a look-in.


----------



## lullabydream

Doesn't take a lot to get me confused. However I am!

I don't think many people have stopped living their lives have they?
Surely the debate was about not wearing masks anymore. Science has been shown, good peer review studies people can chose not to read them, but they are good .

If mask wearing causes you distress; physically or mentally, please don't wear one. That's never been an issue.

My views would be that as already been said yes we need to learn to live with COVID. So surely that should mean mask wearing indoors as standard. It's pretty much common sense. A small part to play, vaccinations will help but masking wearing, some social distancing still helps.


----------



## Cleo38

lullabydream said:


> Doesn't take a lot to get me confused. However I am!
> 
> *I don't think many people have stopped living their lives have they?*
> Surely the debate was about not wearing masks anymore. Science has been shown, good peer review studies people can chose not to read them, but they are good .
> 
> If mask wearing causes you distress; physically or mentally, please don't wear one. That's never been an issue.
> 
> My views would be that as already been said yes we need to learn to live with COVID. So surely that should mean mask wearing indoors as standard. It's pretty much common sense. A small part to play, vaccinations will help but masking wearing, some social distancing still helps.


I think some have. So many people still aren't seeing relatives, not travelling or scared to go out. I find it really sad how some people are still unable to get a sense of normal life again.

If mask wearing is mandatory then I will wear one, if it's not then I don't I think alot of people obviously feel the same as when I have been out majority of people haven't been wearing one.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I think some have. So many people still aren't seeing relatives, not travelling or scared to go out. I find it really sad how some people are still unable to get a sense of normal life again.
> 
> If mask wearing is mandatory then I will wear one, if it's not then I don't I think alot of people obviously feel the same as when I have been out majority of people haven't been wearing one.


 Yes, I have a friend who is constantly worried about it; she has to travel to London next week by public transport and it's cause of great concern for her. Also the fact that, again, as last year, it gets near to Christmas and the ''experts'' are giving conflicting opinions and advice, so they think, well, sod it, best just stay home and do nothing at all. Wearing a mask for short periods of time, does not bother me, but I am sure there are those who think ''Nobody is telling ME what to do''. I've seen a driver stop the bus and remonstrate with a guy who point blank refused to wear one.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> Yes, I have a friend who is constantly worried about it; she has to travel to London next week by public transport and it's cause of great concern for her. Also the fact that, again, as last year, it gets near to Christmas and the ''experts'' are giving conflicting opinions and advice, so they think, well, sod it, best just stay home and do nothing at all. Wearing a mask for short periods of time, does not bother me, but I am sure there are those who think ''Nobody is telling ME what to do''. I've seen a driver stop the bus and remonstrate with a guy who point blank refused to wear one.


The advice from researches and medical professionals is conflicting because science is constantly progressing and we never know everything about a topic. Darwin's evolution theory is not accepted as a fact despite it being taught in majority of schools. This is because everything in science may or may not be true, there are no concrete answers. The pandemic has been a novel experience for our 21st century world and new information is continually being published regarding the virus as we learn more and more about it. Scientists even discovered an entirely new organ in the human body only last year despite that being a topic of research spanning hundreds of years!  Opinions are always conflicting in science but I can appreciate this makes things difficult or confusing for the public who are asked to follow the advice.


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> The advice from researches and medical professionals is conflicting because science is constantly progressing


 I was actually referring to the conflicting advice we get _on the same day_; have a Christmas party: don't have a Christmas party: well, if you must have a party, just have a group of fewer than ten . . . many restaurants and other venues which were barely surviving after the previous lockdowns are getting cancellations which may well ruin them as they were pretty much depending on Christmas to save them.


----------



## mrs phas

mrs phas said:


> Praying very hard that it's a false positive, he was only 13 at weekend, and I don't give a flying fig what she says, I love him like he was my own,


It's a positive 
But 
It may take weeks for it to be known whether it's Omicron or not 
Now my Dil and son have been double jabbed and say that _*unless*_ it's Omicron gov guidelines say they don't have to isolate 
But 
I can't find anything that says this 
Plus 
Does anyone know the amount of time before they show a positive that they can be spreading it 
Thank you


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> It's a positive
> But
> It may take weeks for it to be known whether it's Omicron or not
> Now my Dil and son have been double jabbed and say that _*unless*_ it's Omicron gov guidelines say they don't have to isolate
> But
> I can't find anything that says this
> Plus
> Does anyone know the amount of time before they show a positive that they can be spreading it
> Thank you


From the government website: "People who have COVID-19 can infect others from around 2 days before symptoms start, and for up to 10 days after. They can pass the infection to others, even if they have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, which is why they must stay at home"

The persons with Covid HAS to isolate if it's Covid at all, full stop, no exceptions. People living with the person have to self isolate as well if it's potential, suspected or confirmed Omnicron OR they are not double jabbed, if it's confirmed it's NOT Omnicron double jabbed people don't have to continue to self isolate. All who are required to self isolate MUST complete the full isolation period, even if they get a negative test in that time.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#main-messages


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> From the government website: "People who have COVID-19 can infect others from around 2 days before symptoms start, and for up to 10 days after. They can pass the infection to others, even if they have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, which is why they must stay at home"
> 
> The persons with Covid HAS to isolate if it's Covid at all, full stop, no exceptions. People living with the person have to self isolate as well if it's potential, suspected or confirmed Omnicron OR they are not double jabbed, if it's confirmed it's NOT Omnicron double jabbed people don't have to continue to self isolate. All who are required to self isolate MUST complete the full isolation period, even if they get a negative test in that time.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#main-messages


Thank you
I was drowning in too many facts/nonfacts 
Not helped by the fact he has NO symptoms whatsoever, only a positive lateral flow test


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> Thank you
> I was drowning in too many facts/nonfacts
> Not helped by the fact he has NO symptoms whatsoever, only a positive lateral flow test


Some people are 100% asymptomatic (show no symptoms at all) through the whole time they have Covid, but they can still infect others. He has to self isolate until at least the result of his PCR, if that comes back positive then he has to do the full isolation. The others, as they are double jabbed, should isolate until it is confirmed not to be Omnicron, and continute to isolate if it is Omnicron - as far as I understand it...


----------



## Happy Paws2

lullabydream said:


> Doesn't take a lot to get me confused. However I am!
> 
> I don't think many people have stopped living their lives have they?
> Surely the debate was about not wearing masks anymore. Science has been shown, good peer review studies people can chose not to read them, but they are good .
> 
> If mask wearing causes you distress; physically or mentally, please don't wear one. That's never been an issue.
> 
> My views would be that as already been said yes we need to learn to live with COVID. So surely that should mean mask wearing indoors as standard. It's pretty much common sense. A small part to play, vaccinations will help but masking wearing, some social distancing still helps.


I agree, I can't understand the idea of.... if they aren't wearing a mask then I not going to either.

We aren't sheep if it makes sense, which it does wear one, don't go round spreading to other people, that's just selfish.

If people are wearing them they are thinking of protecting YOU as much as themselves, just wear one please.

I really feel nervous near people not wearing them, I've have enough health problems as it is without adding to them by thought less people.

Another thing is... it will also help keep the cases of coughs, colds and flu down.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> I was actually referring to the conflicting advice we get _on the same day_; have a Christmas party: don't have a Christmas party: well, if you must have a party, just have a group of fewer than ten . . . many restaurants and other venues which were barely surviving after the previous lockdowns are getting cancellations which may well ruin them as they were pretty much depending on Christmas to save them.


That's fair. In terms of the actual science behind it, most journal papers are in agreement that the fewer groups of people meeting together the better. Without turning the thread political I think the government say different as they have to take the economy, case rates, the predicted spread of transmission, the time of year, etc into account, all of which are constantly fluctuating. The newspapers seem to change their mind every day because (in my opinion) the newspapers are manipulative, unethical tabloids who exist to spark anger or fear out of the public. All in all, when the advice is conflicting and the guidelines keep going back and forth I'd say the only option is to research and make an informed choice.


----------



## lullabydream

I thought this is so relevant to us all and worth sharing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I’m still having to hold my shopping trolley behind me at the checkout to stop other shoppers invading my space as they can’t wait until I’ve moved far enough along before unloading their trolley.

I’m trying to give the shopper in front of me their space … so back off Bozo and give me mine! 

On a positive note … thanks to wearing masks I was able to avoid recognition and making small talk with someone I used to know while waiting for a coffee


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> That's fair. In terms of the actual science behind it, most journal papers are in agreement that the fewer groups of people meeting together the better. Without turning the thread political I think the government say different as they have to take the economy, case rates, the predicted spread of transmission, the time of year, etc into account, all of which are constantly fluctuating. The newspapers seem to change their mind every day because (in my opinion) the newspapers are manipulative, unethical tabloids who exist to spark anger or fear out of the public. All in all, when the advice is conflicting and the guidelines keep going back and forth I'd say the only option is to research and make an informed choice.


 I think you missed the point I was taking about conflicting advice - restaurant owners and the like not knowing whether to take on extra staff for Christmas and then possibly having to tell them that they are no longer required. The owners of these establishments are not in a position to make ''an informed choice''.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> I think you missed the point I was taking about conflicting advice - restaurant owners and the like not knowing whether to take on extra staff for Christmas and then possibly having to tell them that they are no longer required. The owners of these establishments are not in a position to make ''an informed choice''.


Apologies, I've re-read your posts and I definitely took them from the angle of the general public being given conflicting advice, not the angle of the impact on businesses! I don't think such a system exists, but it would be good if there was a way for the government to talk about their predictions to business owners. To talk about recent case numbers or impact of restrictions/lack of restrictions and how the government forecast this to affect the economy. Even with this there would probably be back and forth advice though.


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Some people are 100% asymptomatic (show no symptoms at all) through the whole time they have Covid, but they can still infect others. He has to self isolate until at least the result of his PCR, if that comes back positive then he has to do the full isolation. The others, as they are double jabbed, should isolate until it is confirmed not to be Omnicron, and continute to isolate if it is Omnicron - as far as I understand it...


Do you know
Is it 10 days from LFT showing positive,
or
10 days from confirmation by PCR ?

Unfortunately I was with him, masked as usual, fri-sun before the positive LFT,
so,
although triple jabbed, it's now a waiting game for Matt and I too

PCR just showed positive, so I've been told, I haven't been shown anything and don't know what a positive text would look like
not
for any particular variant, again so have been told
I know they have confined him to his room since positive LFT.
and
he has to wipe all bathroom, anything that he touches,
and,
spray dettol antibac spray from behind the closed door when he leaves (by crooking his arm round the tiny opening, spraying and immediately shutting door)
He should've been jabbed on 25th Nov,
But school ran out,
due to inoculations being diverted to those who needed triple jabbing, (how guilty are Matt and I feeling)
so school prioritised the over 16s for what they had

Edit to say; sorry for keep asking questions, when obvs I'm quite able to Google 
Just trust, most, people here, more than the jungle of confliction out there


----------



## cheekyscrip

Conflicting advice?
Only experts tell us not to gather, have big parties and all that…

Our PM though….


----------



## lullabydream

@mrs phas from what I can gather from the PCR test it's very simple to test for Omicron. In the video in I shared it's worth watching to put your mind at rest. Well hopefully put yours and Matt's mind at rest.

The isolation as far as I know, friends children have also caught COVID as running riot they phone you to tell you when the person who tested positive is allowed to 'leave' and mingle again.

It's worth having lateral flow tests and taking them to give a heads up, and I know it can be one of two things it can help or make you more concerned

Fingers crossed 'grandson' stays asymptomatic and everything is ok soon


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> Our PM though….


I know!  You can vent in the Covid Political thread .


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-59521556

*The number of Omicron Covid cases in Scotland has risen to 29 on Thursday - up from 13 the day before.*

A concert by the pop band Steps at Glasgow's Hydro venue on 22 November has been linked to six of the cases.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said cases can be expected to rise "perhaps significantly" over coming days.

The new virus variant has also been recorded at NHS Highland, NHS Grampian and NHS Forth Valley health boards for the first time.

Ms Sturgeon said: "The number of Omicron cases now being reported in Scotland is rising, and cases are no longer all linked to a single event, but to several different sources including a Steps concert at the Hydro.

"This confirms our view that there is now community transmission of this variant within Scotland.


----------



## Calvine

Italian man tries to dodge Covid jab using fake arm - BBC News

:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious Whatever next.


----------



## simplysardonic

Calvine said:


> Italian man tries to dodge Covid jab using fake arm - BBC News
> 
> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious Whatever next.


The nurse found his arm 'rubbery & cold'.

Maybe he's one of those fabled 'lizard people'.

:Hilarious


----------



## Cully

Calvine said:


> Italian man tries to dodge Covid jab using fake arm - BBC News
> 
> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious Whatever next.


How pathetic!!


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> *The number of Omicron Covid cases in Scotland has risen to 29 on Thursday - up from 13 the day before.*
> .


They keep banging on about how transmissable it is but rarely seem to mention how deadly....thats kinda what Im more interested in TBH! I know hospital cases round my way are rising but maybe thats just a seasonal rise given that covid is a flu/cold type virus and they always seem to be worse over winter.

Found out today that my brother tested positive so is isolating (well, not really...he lives with my parents!). Thankfully he doesnt have any symptoms and he is double jabbed, parents triple jabbed so thats good. Most likely he caught it at work. One of his workmates who also tested positive but is fine has jumped in his camper van and decided to self isolate whilst having a fishing holiday!LOL:Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> How pathetic!!


 Not sure if it says why he did this - whether he was an anti-vaxxer or needle-phobic. Anyway, he's being charged with fraud I think.


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> They keep banging on about how transmissable it is but rarely seem to mention how deadly....thats kinda what Im more interested in TBH! I know hospital cases round my way are rising but maybe thats just a seasonal rise given that covid is a flu/cold type virus and they always seem to be worse over winter.
> 
> Found out today that my brother tested positive so is isolating (well, not really...he lives with my parents!). Thankfully he doesnt have any symptoms and he is double jabbed, parents triple jabbed so thats good. Most likely he caught it at work. One of his workmates who also tested positive but is fine has jumped in his camper van and decided to self isolate whilst having a fishing holiday!LOL:Hilarious


I don't think they really know, but early indications is that it's mild compared to the other versions


----------



## Happy Paws2

Doctor has just gone after giving me my Booster and Flu jabs, she stayed with me for15 minutes after to make sure I was OK.


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> but early indications is that it's mild compared to the other versions


 It sounds as thought it's pretty symptomless (even compared to something like a common cold). They must be worried that it might mutate into something lethal (which should get DM foaming at the mouth with excitement - I bet they are planning their headlines now, just in case it's a killer).


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> They must be worried that it might mutate into something lethal


Hopefully it will go the other way though! After all its better for the virus' evolution if it stays non lethal and can therefore spread to many more people and keep itself alive. Its actually kinda scary to think of how many truly terrifying epidemics have occured around the world but have been contained because they killed people (usually in horrible ways!) before they could really spread!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> It sounds as thought it's pretty symptomless (even compared to something like a common cold). They must be worried that it might mutate into something lethal (which should get DM foaming at the mouth with excitement - I bet they are planning their headlines now, just in case it's a killer).


For something so tiny its putting up a good fight to survive.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> For something so tiny its putting up a good fight to survive.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Vaccinated yesterday and this morning both my arms are killing me. the Flu jab hurts more than the booster and I've got a headache. so curled up on the sofa with a duvet and I'm staying here.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Vaccinated yesterday and this morning both my arms are killing me. the Flu jab hurts more than the booster and I've got a headache. so curled up on the sofa with a duvet and I'm staying here.


Poor you. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> Poor you. Hope you feel better soon.


Thank you


----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> Vaccinated yesterday and this morning both my arms are killing me. the Flu jab hurts more than the booster and I've got a headache. so curled up on the sofa with a duvet and I'm staying here.


Xxx


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Vaccinated yesterday and this morning both my arms are killing me. the Flu jab hurts more than the booster and I've got a headache. so curled up on the sofa with a duvet and I'm staying here.


That's the best place to be . hope the effects wear off soon.


----------



## mrs phas

Dil has tested positive, woke up after a nap and realised she couldn't smell dinner cooking, even when she stuck her nose in oven, despite being double jabbed, PCR should arrive tomorrow
Son still negative, told his boss, who said as long as he's been double jabbed and does an lft every morning, to carry on as usual
I take him to work every day at the moment, so if he does test positive then I doubt it'll pass me by, despite having all 3 jabs


----------



## rona

mrs phas said:


> Dil has tested positive, woke up after a nap and realised she couldn't smell dinner cooking, even when she stuck her nose in oven, despite being double jabbed, PCR should arrive tomorrow
> Son still negative, told his boss, who said as long as he's been double jabbed and does an lft every morning, to carry on as usual
> I take him to work every day at the moment, so if he does test positive then I doubt it'll pass me by, despite having all 3 jabs


Oh dear. Can't he get to work some other way for a few days?


----------



## mrs phas

rona said:


> Oh dear. Can't he get to work some other way for a few days?


Unfortunately not, I'm only one who drives and all His staff, other than chef, are 18 or under 
Chef comes from a completely different direction


----------



## Jesthar

mrs phas said:


> Unfortunately not, I'm only one who drives and all His staff, other than chef, are 18 or under
> Chef comes from a completely different direction


Put him on the roof rack?


----------



## lullabydream

Just had my booster moderna. Waiting for my 15 minutes waiting time to be up!


----------



## mrs phas

Jesthar said:


> Put him on the roof rack?


Don't tempt me


----------



## kimthecat

Libby had her claws trimmed at he vets today . We still have to wait in the car and it was freezing . I had to put a dog blanket around my legs.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eans-uk-omicron-numbers-unclear-say-officials
The Omicron variant of coronavirus is likely to be more widespread in the UK than official numbers suggest owing to patchy monitoring and a time lag in the data, scientists and officials have said.

Ministers said 336 cases had been identified by whole-genome sequencing, but experts said numbers were expected to be much higher given the variant's potential for exponential growth and the fact it takes five to seven days for a case to be confirmed.

Sajid Javid, the health secretary, said there was community transmission of Omicron "across multiple regions of England", and two scientists predicted that the variant would be dominant in the UK within the next "month or so".


----------



## willa

How can it take between 5 to 7 days for a Omnicom case to be confirmed ?

That seems a rather long time


----------



## MilleD

willa said:


> How can it take between 5 to 7 days for a Omnicom case to be confirmed ?
> 
> That seems a rather long time


It will be the sequencing to identify the variant. The actual positive result will be confirmed the same as other.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eans-uk-omicron-numbers-unclear-say-officials
> The Omicron variant of coronavirus is likely to be more widespread in the UK than official numbers suggest owing to patchy monitoring and a time lag in the data, scientists and officials have said.
> 
> Ministers said 336 cases had been identified by whole-genome sequencing, but experts said numbers were expected to be much higher given the variant's potential for exponential growth and the fact it takes five to seven days for a case to be confirmed.
> 
> Sajid Javid, the health secretary, said there was community transmission of Omicron "across multiple regions of England", and two scientists predicted that the variant would be dominant in the UK within the next "month or so".


 I am maybe being a bit thick here, but why are they worried about NHS being ''overwhelmed'' by this new variant if the people who have it are not even ill? Are they going to fill the hospitals with people who feel fit and well? And how do they know how many people have it? I don't know anyone who's been tested: I haven't. I'm guessing there must be many more who have it and are passing it on without knowing, and without any signs of illness, but the people they pass it on to don't know.


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> I am maybe being a bit thick here, but why are they worried about NHS being ''overwhelmed'' by this new variant if the people who have it are not even ill? Are they going to fill the hospitals with people who feel fit and well? And how do they know how many people have it? I don't know anyone who's been tested: I haven't. I'm guessing there must be many more who have it and are passing it on without knowing, and without any signs of illness, but the people they pass it on to don't know.


Because epidemiology isn't straightforwards. Because we don't know what the full impact of Omnicron could be short term yet, let alone longer term. Because fewer/no symptoms make it easier to spread and therefore there are more chances for it to mutate into new varients, or get passed to a vulnerable person. Because social distancing is not really happening much any more, and therefore the winter illnesses like flu that were virtually non-existant last year are back with a vengeance.

Because better safe than sorry.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> Because we don't know what the full impact of Omnicron could be short term yet, let alone longer term


 We don't know what effect vaccinations will have long-term either . . . (well, I don't).


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> We don't know what effect vaccinations will have long-term either . . . (well, I don't).


Not sure whether you mean effectiveness wise or health wise, and no-one has a crystal ball, but we do have much more experience of vaccines in general that we do of Covid. AstraZenica in particular uses long established vaccine technology. The others are newer technologies, but they've also been around for quite a few decades.

No vaccine is without risk, or perfect, and there are some people who can't have them. But they do work to greatly reduce the risk of getting whatever the vaccine innoculates against, and to reduce the severity of it if you do still contract that bug. There's a reason why measles, chicken pox, rubella and TB are no longer commonly seen outside of anti-vax areas.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> I am maybe being a bit thick here, but why are they worried about NHS being ''overwhelmed'' by this new variant if the people who have it are not even ill? Are they going to fill the hospitals with people who feel fit and well? And how do they know how many people have it? I don't know anyone who's been tested: I haven't. I'm guessing there must be many more who have it and are passing it on without knowing, and without any signs of illness, but the people they pass it on to don't know.


I dont know myself but Jesthar has explained it pretty well.


----------



## Calvine

Pfizer CEO predicts a fourth shot might be needed in light of omicron variant | The Independent

Who'd have believed it!


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> Pfizer CEO predicts a fourth shot might be needed in light of omicron variant | The Independent
> 
> Who'd have believed it!


Well, there are annual flu shots to protect agains the prevalent varients. Not surpriising it might be the same for Covid.

I'd prefer to get AZ, though. Less profiteering.


----------



## Gemmaa

I don't mind one jab a year, but I think four or more, is getting out of my comfort zone.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> Well, there are annual flu shots to protect agains the prevalent varients. Not surpriising it might be the same for Covid.
> 
> I'd prefer to get AZ, though. Less profiteering.


AZ hasn't been recommended by the JCVI as a booster, citing the fact that mRNA vaccines are better suited for the boosters. But it does make you wonder if money is involved somewhere.


----------



## Jesthar

Gemmaa said:


> I don't mind one jab a year, but I think four or more, is getting out of my comfort zone.


Oh, I hate having injections, so I hear you on that one! But it's not unreasonable given this is a worldwide, fast mutating virus. It should settle down ove the next few years (hopefully!).

Also worth bearing in mind that three/four jabs is a luxury when so much of the world hasn't had one yet...



MilleD said:


> AZ hasn't been recommended by the JCVI as a booster, citing the fact that mRNA vaccines are better suited for the boosters. But it does make you wonder if money is involved somewhere.


Oh, of course money is involved. AZ sold their vaccines at pretty much cost. One suspects this may be why so much has been repeatedly made of the AZ potential risks in the media, and not the other vaccines


----------



## Calvine

Gemmaa said:


> I don't mind one jab a year, but I think four or more, is getting out of my comfort zone.


That was the point I was (supposedly) making in post #11861. I have never had a 'flu jab, but sure the people I know who do are not expected to have three or four a year (and remember the covid vaccination(s) are _in addition to _the 'flu. I'll buy you couple of prosthetic arms for Christmas (one for each side) like the Italian guy.
I posted recently that Pfizer make $1000 a second actual profit from it . . .


----------



## simplysardonic

Well, I'm off to a gig tonight at the UEA (Alestorm, woohoo!), done & recorded my lateral flow as required by the venue for entry, bit nervous as it's the first time I've been to an indoor space where there'll be a lot of people since well before covid hit!


----------



## SbanR

Jesthar said:


> Oh, I hate having injections, so I hear you on that one! But it's not unreasonable given this is a worldwide, fast mutating virus. It should settle down ove the next few years (hopefully!).
> 
> Also worth bearing in mind that three/four jabs is a luxury when so much of the world hasn't had one yet...
> 
> Oh, of course money is involved. AZ sold their vaccines at pretty much cost. One suspects this may be why so much has been repeatedly made of the AZ potential risks in the media, and not the other vaccines


There's a Dispatches programme on tomorrow night, Channel 4. Vaccine Wars: The Truth About Pfizer


----------



## mrs phas

Gemmaa said:


> I don't mind one jab a year, but I think four or more, is getting out of my comfort zone.


I'd rather have another 10, than risk the *possible* repercussions of having none
I will leave this world kicking and screaming 
"there must be another"
Rather than roll over and say no more


----------



## £54etgfb6

Gemmaa said:


> I don't mind one jab a year, but I think four or more, is getting out of my comfort zone.


I am advised to have four due to being immunocompromised. I've had three so far + my flu jab in the same arm. I cry a lot every time I get injections despite getting them regularly since I was 12 (at one point I had to have one each week! 52 in a year!). We have to take much more aggressive measured with covid than we do the flu as covid is producing harmful mutations much more rapidly than the flu does and is also more contagious. These aggressive measures may help to push it away to where it is an uncommon occurrence instead of a global pandemic. Still, it's understandably stressful for those of us not comfortable with needles.


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> , it's understandably stressful for those of us not comfortable with needles.


I understand how you feel, needles don't really bother me but my Husband has a real fear of needles and it's an ordeal every time he has too have one.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Happy Paws2 said:


> I understand how you feel, needles don't really bother me but my Husband has a real fear of needles and it's an ordeal every time he has too have one.


The medication I take for my Crohn's is via a needle so there's no escaping it! I empathise with your husband. Even though I've had so many before and I know nothing bad will happen I still cry as soon as I have to get one!


----------



## kimthecat

bmr10 said:


> The medication I take for my Crohn's is via a needle so there's no escaping it! I empathise with your husband. Even though I've had so many before and I know nothing bad will happen I still cry as soon as I have to get one!


 Im immunocompromised too. Im ok with needles , I barely felt the injections for Covid and I have regular blood tests that depend on how good the phlebotomist is to whether it bruises or not. But at one time I had to take (for Rheumatoid Arthritis ) a weekly injection and it stung like hell for about 15 seconds ,. I used to dread it and even though I knew it would help with the daily pain of arthritis , I used to sometimes put of doing it . I just couldn't face it.


----------



## Gemmaa

...I'm having the vaccines, and I understand why it's important, but longterm, I hope we don't need a booster every few months
I think it's okay to be a bit concerned about that.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Gemmaa said:


> ...I'm having the vaccines, and I understand why it's important, but longterm, I hope we don't need a booster every few months
> I think it's okay to be a bit concerned about that.


Apologies if I came across like I was dismissing your concern my aim was to explain why we are having to have so many at first right now due to the unique situations we're under. In 5 years time I cannot imagine us needing a quarterly covid booster although I may be wrong. I hope I am not wrong as I could do with one less needle in my life!


----------



## £54etgfb6

kimthecat said:


> Im immunocompromised too. Im ok with needles , I barely felt the injections for Covid and I have regular blood tests that depend on how good the phlebotomist is to whether it bruises or not. But at one time I had to take (for Rheumatoid Arthritis ) a weekly injection and it stung like hell for about 15 seconds ,. I used to dread it and even though I knew it would help with the daily pain of arthritis , I used to sometimes put of doing it . I just couldn't face it.


If it was methotrexate injections then I've that and yes they hurt so much! A nurse told me someone described it as a wasp sting and I thought it was pretty accurate! I am used to my medications/blood tests now but when it's a new injection I'm not used to I freak out. At my flu jab appointment the nurse surprised me by telling me I was eligible for my covid booster and as I hadn't mentally prepared for two needles I broke down!  Very embarrassing :Facepalm


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> The medication I take for my Crohn's is via a needle so there's no escaping it! I empathise with your husband. Even though I've had so many before and I know nothing bad will happen I still cry as soon as I have to get one!


I'm so sorry you have to go through this, life is so cruel at times.....


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> I cannot imagine us needing a quarterly covid booster


 A friend of mine is so fed up with the whole thing she thinks people will be having them monthly!


----------



## kimthecat

A third of all covid cases in London are Omicron. Having the three vaccinations reduces the risk of catching it by 75 pc.


----------



## Guest

I think if you are immune compromised, obese or otherwise at increased risk, then for those people they should take a booster. 
For other people they should not be forced unless willing to take a third vaccine dose within the same year. 
From what I have read Omicron is fairly mild, at least so far.


----------



## rona

I see on the NHS website, that they are already informing the most vulnerable that another booster will be available 3 months after this booster


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> A third of all covid cases in London are Omicron. Having the three vaccinations reduces the risk of catching it by 75 pc.


Prof Salim Abdool Karim the South African Public Health Medicine Specialist, epidemiologist and infectious diseases specialist and Vice President of the International Science Council.has said the Omicron variant is highly transmissible but the symptoms are milder.

Apparently it's more like having a heavy cold.


----------



## Happy Paws2

J. Dawson said:


> I think if you are immune compromised, obese or otherwise at increased risk, then for those people they should take a booster.
> For other people they should not be forced unless willing to take a third vaccine dose within the same year.
> *From what I have read Omicron is fairly mild, at least so far.*


Lets hope they are right, let hope it does mutate again.

OH and I have both had our 3rd as we both have health problems and classed as vulnerable.

I'm still not going out unless I have to, in fact I was trying to think when the last time I did, it must be over a month and that was just a quick trip to Sainsbury's.

OH has to go out every weeks to the doctors and get anything we that we forget to order on his way home.


----------



## Guest

@Happy Paws2 
Well I think Covid is here to stay and we can expect new variants just as the flu each year alters. 
The current mutation seems to not be that worrying at the moment. 
I have two jabs and frankly am not keen to have another anytime soon. Am not in a high risk category though.


----------



## Happy Paws2

J. Dawson said:


> @Happy Paws2
> Well I think Covid is here to stay and we can expect new variants just as the flu each year alters.
> The current mutation seems to not be that worrying at the moment.
> I have two jabs and frankly am not keen to have another anytime soon. Am not in a high risk category though.


I think your right it's here to stay, I only hope they can sort out a better way of doing the vaccine jabs it would be so much easier if we could just go to our GP's and have them do there like we used to with the flu jab or at the local pharmacy, instead of having to go miles like OH has too or them wasting their time on homes visits to me as i can't get to the centres.


----------



## Cully

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think your right it's here to stay, I only hope they can sort out a better way of doing the vaccine jabs it would be so much easier if we could just go to our GP's and have them do there like we used to with the flu jab or at the local pharmacy, instead of having to go miles like OH has too or them wasting their time on homes visits to me as i can't get to the centres.


I expect once it becomes as routine as flu jabs it probably will be possible to have them at your surgery. I don't think that anyone expected these boosters to have become so urgently driven by a variant such as omicron has turned out to be.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029 Latest study in Omicron.

Ive not read all of it . I read this on the condensed red button

The uk is facing a substantial wave of Omicron infections without further restrictions.
The number of deaths from the variant by the end of April could range from 25,000 to 75 , 000 depending 
on how well vaccines perform. Scientists are still uncertain about the model .

Another scientist not linked to the study said the study's worst case scenarios are unlikely.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm so sorry you have to go through this, life is so cruel at times.....


Don't worry! It has a lot of downsides but it's definitely given me a lot of growth and is what inspired me to pursue studying medicine  I wish there were more support services for young people with chronic illnesses however


----------



## rona

Had my booster this morning, and I must say that it's the most "at risk" I've felt through the whole sorry episode 

At least 100 people in a small hall, not only oldies for boosters, but youngsters getting their first and second doses 

No wonder that part of town is having a surge while the rest of the area is seeing less cases 


Couldn't wait to get out......................will be testing in two days time


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Had my booster this morning, and I must say that it's the most "at risk" I've felt through the whole sorry episode
> 
> At least 100 people in a small hall, not only oldies for boosters, but youngsters getting their first and second doses
> 
> No wonder that part of town is having a surge while the rest of the area is seeing less cases
> 
> Couldn't wait to get out......................will be testing in two days time


I know how you feel. A similar thing happened to me when I went for my first jab. The clinic was packed to the gills with not only over 60's but people of all ages, some with young children arriving to collect prescriptions from the pharmacy which was adjacent to the room we were in.

No tests in those days, all you could do was keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best.


----------



## MollySmith

Booster vaccine this morning. Moderna (following AZ)


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029 Latest study in Omicron.
> 
> Ive not read all of it . I read this on the condensed red button
> 
> The uk is facing a substantial wave of Omicron infections without further restrictions.
> The number of deaths from the variant by the end of April could range from 25,000 to 75 , 000 depending
> on how well vaccines perform. Scientists are still uncertain about the model .
> 
> Another scientist not linked to the study said the study's worst case scenarios are unlikely.


That last line.. no wonder we're all confused.

I have had my booster today but the thought of every three months (not least the hassle of trying to get one) and the feeling of being vaccinated to balance out the folk who don't subscribe to any mask wearing or precaution is alarming. It feels like we have such an unbalanced approach that's dividing people and possibly creating huge risks in health on all sides. And then there's scientists undoing stuff maybe to get a shout on the news (who knows!), numerous unqualified celebs now getting on Twitter sharing stuff... I have no issue with the vaccine, it's the contradictory information that's make me query and I think I'm relatively sensible (apart from in a bookshop).


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Had my booster this morning, and I must say that it's the most "at risk" I've felt through the whole sorry episode
> 
> At least 100 people in a small hall, not only oldies for boosters, but youngsters getting their first and second doses
> 
> No wonder that part of town is having a surge while the rest of the area is seeing less cases
> 
> Couldn't wait to get out......................will be testing in two days time


I felt exactly the same last week at the walk-in. Horrid feeling isn't it?

I left without vaccinating as the queues and volume of people worried me. I managed to get my appointment online for this morning (they released some locally and I booked in the walk-in queue!). It was much calmer as they have stopped walk-ins at the location since yesterday morning.

I hope the test is negative, it is very unnerving. I tested before I went today and negative.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I also feel so torn about having to keep having boosters. I feel the same about masks too, why am I wearing them to protect people who won't wear them? Or vaccinate themselves/their children. You are spot on @MollySmith with the whole dividing people thing. I was found to be muttering, "where's your bloody mask" under my breath at people this morning. Yesterday I asked a non-mask-wearing person to step back from me as he was practically on my shoulder - and he just looked at me like I had six heads.

I am fundamentally hacked off with it all. I'm fed up having to have the argument at work about mask wearing, I'm fed up telling people how to wear them, I'd fed up protecting everyone who WON'T protect themselves, I'm fed up not going anywhere and doing anything (partly due to my own fear of it and partly because I want to be a sensible practitioner), I'm fed up with being concerned and on alert all the time. I'm just sick and tired of it all.

I don't want to keep having boosters. I really don't.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> numerous unqualified celebs no getting on Twitter


Yes, I've noticed that. And a lot of qualified people whose opinions have been quoted many times over the past two years, now they seem to have become minor ''celebs'' in their own right as they have been in the spotlight for so long!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Mrs Funkin said:


> I don't want to keep having boosters. I really don't.


If it's just once a year like the Flu jab I don't mind, but if it is more often I'll still have it as I do have health problems and I don't want to push my luck and if I do get it I can say "I did do everything I could to prevent it".


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I would still have it too @Happy Paws2 - doesn't mean I want to keep having to though


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> If it's just once a year like the Flu jab I don't mind, but if it is more often I'll still have it as I do have health problems and I don't want to push my luck and if I do get it I can say "I did do everything I could to prevent it".


I don't think I'd mind twice a year but every three months seems like some strange political or social band-aid.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> I don't think I'd mind twice a year but every three months seems like some strange political or social band-aid.


I've no idea who told you that, but I've heard nothing about 3 monthly jabs either here in Hungary or in the US (CNN News)


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> I've no idea who told you that, but I've heard nothing about 3 monthly jabs either here in Hungary or in the US (CNN News)


It's happening here in the UK


----------



## O2.0

And meanwhile we've forgotten that people have other ailments, that other diseases and conditions need attention too, that people get hospitalized for reasons unrelated to covid and need their loved ones there with them. It's all covid, covid, covid. 
I'm sick to death of it all. 
Get vaccinated, wear a mask, supplement with vitamin D if you don't get enough sun, and take your health seriously and quit asking the rest of the world to stop because you can't be bothered to protect yourself. Sorry but I'm so, so, sick of it all!


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> I've no idea who told you that, but I've heard nothing about 3 monthly jabs either here in Hungary or in the US (CNN News)


Here and other sources 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ffered-to-all-uk-adults-after-three-month-gap


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> And meanwhile we've forgotten that people have other ailments, that other diseases and conditions need attention too, that people get hospitalized for reasons unrelated to covid and need their loved ones there with them. It's all covid, covid, covid.
> I'm sick to death of it all.
> Get vaccinated, wear a mask, supplement with vitamin D if you don't get enough sun, and take your health seriously and quit asking the rest of the world to stop because you can't be bothered to protect yourself. Sorry but I'm so, so, sick of it all!


I feel exactly the same. Far too many serious illnesses are being side lined for Covid & am sick of people saying the rules are for our safety when people are dying or suffering alone due to restrictions. I know so many people who have lost relatives & they didn't get the chance to say good bye.

Hope you're doing ok, I honestly don't blame you for feeling angry about it all


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I also feel so torn about having to keep having boosters. I feel the same about masks too, why am I wearing them to protect people who won't wear them? Or vaccinate themselves/their children. You are spot on @MollySmith with the whole dividing people thing. I was found to be muttering, "where's your bloody mask" under my breath at people this morning. Yesterday I asked a non-mask-wearing person to step back from me as he was practically on my shoulder - and he just looked at me like I had six heads.
> 
> I am fundamentally hacked off with it all. I'm fed up having to have the argument at work about mask wearing, I'm fed up telling people how to wear them, I'd fed up protecting everyone who WON'T protect themselves, I'm fed up not going anywhere and doing anything (partly due to my own fear of it and partly because I want to be a sensible practitioner), I'm fed up with being concerned and on alert all the time. I'm just sick and tired of it all.
> 
> I don't want to keep having boosters. I really don't.


(hugs) I think I'm sick of it, then I think about you and my sister in law and others who are working so hard in the NHS and can't imagine how you must be feeling. I don't imagine that there are words that cover it.

I've started to feel a sense of mourning lately for what was. I haven't had that for a long time, I've got a load of tools in my mental health toolkit for grief work but maybe it's this time of the year and like you, not going anywhere, makes it worse. I didn't see my brother yesterday as they'd popped in to see a cousin first (the one who stole from my late gran) and his kids and they've been all over the place and are anti-mask. My brother didn't know until they got there and thought it was best not to see me as my immune system is screwy and only had booster today. That's two years since I last saw him. We are all safe and well but it only shows that another person's actions can impact on another.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Here and other sources
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ffered-to-all-uk-adults-after-three-month-gap


Correct me if I'm wrong but that's for the 3rd booster jab.

Hungary was the first country in Europe to offer them from the beginning of August 2021 and only required a 4 month gap between having the 2nd jab and the booster.

I had my 3rd booster vaccination on August 26th.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I feel exactly the same. Far too many serious illnesses are being side lined for Covid & am sick of people saying the rules are for our safety when people are dying or suffering alone due to restrictions. I know so many people who have lost relatives & they didn't get the chance to say good bye.
> 
> Hope you're doing ok, I honestly don't blame you for feeling angry about it all


I'm just angry. As you know we've been in 2 separate hospitals in the last 2 weeks and neither one has a single case of covid, but they still have to follow all sorts of restrictions like on visiting hours. The staff are very apologetic about it and they know it's not ideal particularly for patients who really do need their loved ones there for real, legitimate reasons, but they too are stuck because you have to at least look like you're taking all the right precautions - it's all about appearances and following 'protocol' and not what's best for patients. And I blame society and politics for that.

Covid is not the worst thing than can happen to you, we need to stop acting like it is.


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but that's for the 3rd booster jab.
> 
> Hungary was the first country in Europe to offer them from the beginning of August 2021 and only required a 4 month gap between having the 2nd jab and the booster.
> 
> I had my 3rd booster vaccination on August 26th.


Yes that's right but I think I'm right in saying for all boosters... but honestly @Magyarmum the volume of information coming out is utterly confusing at the moment so I may well have that wrong. There were rumours that every three months was being touted by the government and also mandatory vaccine passports but then other events took over and I'm a little lost on where were are with the 3 month thing at the moment!

Over here I think they bought in the 3 month this weekend as I was 10th June for second jab and could only have my booster last Thursday but wasn't able to book anywhere until Thursday morning when more appointments opened up. Otherwise was joining a queue for walk-ins.


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> I'm just angry. As you know we've been in 2 separate hospitals in the last 2 weeks and neither one has a single case of covid, but they still have to follow all sorts of restrictions like on visiting hours. The staff are very apologetic about it and they know it's not ideal particularly for patients who really do need their loved ones there for real, legitimate reasons, but they too are stuck because you have to at least look like you're taking all the right precautions - it's all about appearances and following 'protocol' and not what's best for patients. And I blame society and politics for that.
> 
> Covid is not the worst thing than can happen to you, we need to stop acting like it is.


I wish our hospitals didn't have any Covid cases, the lady in the bed next to me who is particularly poorly had to wait on a wheelchair for over 24 hours before being admitted. The staff are stretched and routines things just aren't getting done. I am suppose to be getting out of bed to sit in a chair and also have a blood test, the doctor has just come to do the blood test that was ordered this morning full of apologies over the delay. 
Much of the issues are due to unvaccinated patients clogging up the hospital


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> I'm just angry. As you know we've been in 2 separate hospitals in the last 2 weeks and neither one has a single case of covid, but they still have to follow all sorts of restrictions like on visiting hours. The staff are very apologetic about it and they know it's not ideal particularly for patients who really do need their loved ones there for real, legitimate reasons, but they too are stuck because you have to at least look like you're taking all the right precautions - it's all about appearances and following 'protocol' and not what's best for patients. And I blame society and politics for that.
> 
> Covid is not the worst thing than can happen to you, we need to stop acting like it is.


It must be such a difficult time for you all, am so sorry. My friends dad died recently & the weeks prior to his death she wasn't able to see him. he had dementia & was basically just in bed existing with no mental/physical stimulation. The hospital was only allowing 1 visitor but said they 'may' make exceptions if he was near the end. Instead he died suddenly so she didn't get to see him. Unfortunately I could list so many example of these sort of inhumane rules 

Regardless of Covid cases people need to be treated well, they need contact with their families. For those suffering or at the end of their lives this is especially important. Over a year after my mum's death I am still angry.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Regardless of Covid cases people need to be treated well, they need contact with their families. For those suffering or at the end of their lives this is especially important. Over a year after my mum's death I am still angry.


I can't imagine. I'm so sorry. And yes, we need to remember that people need their loved ones there. 
Prioritizing covid and covid precautions over real human needs is not the answer.



Siskin said:


> Much of the issues are due to unvaccinated patients clogging up the hospital


See that makes me so angry for you. Your health issues should not take back seat to covid cases and covid precautions. At this point we have enough information to take sensible precautions without compromising proper care to those who need it.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I also feel so torn about having to keep having boosters. I feel the same about masks too, why am I wearing them to protect people who won't wear them? Or vaccinate themselves/their children. You are spot on @MollySmith with the whole dividing people thing. I was found to be muttering, "where's your bloody mask" under my breath at people this morning. Yesterday I asked a non-mask-wearing person to step back from me as he was practically on my shoulder - and he just looked at me like I had six heads.
> 
> I am fundamentally hacked off with it all. I'm fed up having to have the argument at work about mask wearing, I'm fed up telling people how to wear them, I'd fed up protecting everyone who WON'T protect themselves, I'm fed up not going anywhere and doing anything (partly due to my own fear of it and partly because I want to be a sensible practitioner), I'm fed up with being concerned and on alert all the time. I'm just sick and tired of it all.
> 
> I don't want to keep having boosters. I really don't.


I really feel for you. It must be so hard trying to do the right thing while banging your head against a brick wall.
Those people who won't wear a mask or keep their distance maybe feel it's their choice, but it's just selfish to put others at risk. Would they be happy for someone to cough all over them because they chose not to mask up?
With Omicron cases growing I fear there will be no beds available for those patients needing non covid related treatment.
I too find myself muttering at people without masks in a situation which requires them. Or not wearing them properly. Noses must be covered too!! And I don't always do it under my breath, so you're not the only one! It must be so disheartening for you.


----------



## Magyarmum

MollySmith said:


> Yes that's right but I think I'm right in saying for all boosters... but honestly @Magyarmum the volume of information coming out is utterly confusing at the moment so I may well have that wrong. There were rumours that every three months was being touted by the government and also mandatory vaccine passports but then other events took over and I'm a little lost on where were are with the 3 month thing at the moment!
> 
> Over here I think they bought in the 3 month this weekend as I was 10th June for second jab and could only have my booster last Thursday but wasn't able to book anywhere until Thursday morning when more appointments opened up. Otherwise was joining a queue for walk-ins.


I think we're pretty lucky over here because the information we're given is normally straightforward and factual. The restrictions also are reasonable and basically are just a loosening or tightening up of what they've been from day one. At least that way, people know exactly where they stand.


----------



## mrs phas

UK covid level raised to level four 
Is the great buffoon going to wreck Christmas *again!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59629916
*


----------



## Happy Paws2

I was just about to post that


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> I was just about to post that


 beat you to it :Smuggrin:Smuggrin:Smuggrin


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> UK covid level raised to level four
> Is the great buffoon going to wreck Christmas *again!
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59629916*


Oh what !!

What is the distance w have to keep outdoors. Is it still the 2 metres ? Ive been chatting to neighbours and forgetting to stand back.


----------



## mrs phas

kimthecat said:


> Oh what !!
> 
> What is the distance w have to keep outdoors. Is it still the 2 metres ? Ive been chatting to neighbours and forgetting to stand back.


Back to 2m, no touching, def no hugging, heaven forfend!
Possibility of reduction in indoor and outdoor numbers who can meet together (latter depends on how far he wants to take it)
Statement at 8pm


----------



## Happy Paws2

mrs phas said:


> beat you to it :Smuggrin:Smuggrin:Smuggrin


gloating isn't becoming.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

kimthecat said:


> Oh what !!
> 
> What is the distance w have to keep outdoors. Is it still the 2 metres ? Ive been chatting to neighbours and forgetting to stand back.


There are no social distancing rules at present, obviously some venues, pharmacies etc will ask for people to keep 1m apart but official social distancing were removed back in July. 
Johnson statement is just going to be about the booster programme with no further restrictions to be introduced, that is according to the media who know these things because Johnson likes to tell them before anyone else!


----------



## JoanneF

I think that BBC report is a bit ambiguous. First it says the medical officers *say* we are moving to level 4, then it says they are *recommending* we do. They also say in the 8 pm briefing, "BJ is expected to provide an update on the booster programme. *The BBC has been told there will not be any more new rules announced*".

The gov.uk website doesn't say anything about it at the time I am writing this.

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with the BBC.


----------



## Cully

Oh heck. I've got two grocery deliveries before Christmas and was planning going to Tesco on 22nd for my fresh stuff. Not sure what to do now as I expect the world and his wife will be there, many with little conscience about infecting anyone, as long as they can have a good Xmas.


----------



## Siskin

JoanneF said:


> I think that BBC report is a bit ambiguous. First it says the medical officers *say* we are moving to level 4, then it says they are *recommending* we do. They also say in the 8 pm briefing, "BJ is expected to provide an update on the booster programme. *The BBC has been told there will not be any more new rules announced*".
> 
> The gov.uk website doesn't say anything about it at the time I am writing this.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
> 
> I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with the BBC.


I did that a while back, in fact and tv news.


----------



## willa

Booster booked today, but nothing available until early January in London

Also why Address ( Pre recorded) the Nation at 8pm, if it’s just regarding the Booser rollout ?

What’s so urgent it can’t wait for a normal press conference


----------



## Siskin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nine-covid-vaccines-new-zealand-b1974572.html
reporting compared to headline is inaccurate, but theirs is a weird one. I wonder if there are other cases of this worldwide.


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> many with little conscience about infecting anyone, as long as they can have a good Xmas.


The shops were seething with people on Saturday - - - several still had signs on the door saying ''Maximum three customers at any time'' but when you looked in they were squashed like sardines.


----------



## MollySmith

I hope it's okay to post? Just to confirm what the England announcement was (that last point is ). I appreciate it's from Simple Politics but they have the easiest summary to share


----------



## MilleD

I was out for a meal last night for my sister's 40th. There were 13 of us on a table separate from the rest of the pub.

Did lateral flows before we went, wore masks unless we were sitting down at the table. And me and OH sat at far end of table away from my 2 nephews who were there.

But they were allowed to run around, the rest of the table were a bit mumbly when asked if they had tested before they got there, and only wore masks when getting up to leave because we shamed them into it I think.

I'm a bit fed up of protecting others, why oh why is hospitality exempt from the masks indoors rule, there is no reason for it. We are trying to have some semblance of normality whilst not being utterly selfish to others, but no-one else seems to be bothered. Are there really that many people who just haven't been personally affected at all by Covid? Maybe there are, maybe that's the 'problem'.

Will be lateral flow testing in the week as OH has a gig with his new band on Saturday. First one so really doesn't want to miss it.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> Are there really that many people who just haven't been personally affected at all by Covid?


There probably is, personally I don't have anyone close to me who I'm aware has had covid in the past. I meet people in the pharmacy all the time who have but aside from being a bit distressing this does not follow me home and play on my mind as it would with a family member for example. In terms of covid and everything that comes with it (lockdowns, restrictions, closure of businesses, etc) I think majority of people have been affected. Still, if you haven't seen the devastating health effects covid can cause then it's probably easy to brush it off as people overreacting. How many people go out in the sun regardless of time of year without sunscreen? I'd bet a lot of those people haven't experienced skin cancer.

However, it is possible to understand things you have not personally experienced- empathy. Unfortunately, I think the issue is is that a very large portion of society are selfish. People will help others when it either benefits themselves or has a neutral effect on their own well-being. I don't think a large proportion of society are comfortable sacrificing their own comfort/peace for the benefit of others. I mean, how many people hoarded hand sanitisers and toilet roll at the start of all of this? I am a pessimistic person at heart but I do believe that, objectively, a large part of our society are inherently selfish and this is a large part of why people refuse to comply with health/gov advice.


----------



## MollySmith

bmr10 said:


> There probably is, personally I don't have anyone close to me who I'm aware has had covid in the past. I meet people in the pharmacy all the time who have but aside from being a bit distressing this does not follow me home and play on my mind as it would with a family member for example. In terms of covid and everything that comes with it (lockdowns, restrictions, closure of businesses, etc) I think majority of people have been affected. Still, if you haven't seen the devastating health effects covid can cause then it's probably easy to brush it off as people overreacting. How many people go out in the sun regardless of time of year without sunscreen? I'd bet a lot of those people haven't experienced skin cancer.
> 
> However, it is possible to understand things you have not personally experienced- empathy. Unfortunately, I think the issue is is that a very large portion of society are selfish. People will help others when it either benefits themselves or has a neutral effect on their own well-being. I don't think a large proportion of society are comfortable sacrificing their own comfort/peace for the benefit of others. I mean, how many people hoarded hand sanitisers and toilet roll at the start of all of this? I am a pessimistic person at heart but I do believe that, objectively, a large part of our society are inherently selfish and this is a large part of why people refuse to comply with health/gov advice.


Spot on with the empathy fail. That's so true @bmr10 and well observed.

I amazed by how other people training on a recent mental health course didn't understand empathy. Yes, really! It's stuff like this which causes large societal break down. We see it on PF sometimes in a small way but out there on social media it escalates in a much more public setting. I shared a video about It's About Not The Nail on here a while back and it sums up Covid and responses. Remove Covid but there's still a adjustment in perception and reaction. How we recover in other ways and build up trust. It's not being asked, heard or listened to.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

There are no more LFT for home delivery available on the NHS site, they are advising to get them from pharmacy but both of my local pharmacies had none last week, hope they get this sorted asap!


----------



## MilleD

3dogs2cats said:


> There are no more LFT for home delivery available on the NHS site, they are advising to get them from pharmacy but both of my local pharmacies had none last week, hope they get this sorted asap!


It looks like the NHS site is still offering them? Where does it say they aren't?

Edit to add - yes it says right at the end of the process.

Have you tried contacting your local authority? Ours have some available in libraries.


----------



## O2.0

Empathy? Seriously? Empathy?

Where is the empathy for the people who @Cleo38 described above who lost loved ones without being able to say goodbye? For the people with dementia who sit in a hospital confused and disoriented without a loved one to steady them? 
Where is the empathy for the carers who work 12 hour shifts wearing a mask the whole time and who just can't bring themselves to wear it one more minute while they pump gas and get accusatory stares and worse from the mask police?

Where is the empathy for the small business owners who have lost everything because of covid restrictions made it impossible to keep their stores and restaurants open? Where is the empathy for those without the luxury of working from home who do have to go out and about and have been doing it for a 18 months now, caught covid, recovered, are now fully vaccinated, and just don't see the point of mask wearing anymore?

I am so very tired of hearing people say those who don't care about covid are selfish or lacking in empathy. 
How very easy your life must be if your main concern is if the person near you at the bus station is vaccinated and wearing a mask. 
Meanwhile life continues, people are born and die, and things happen that are wholly unrelated to covid, but covid is all we care about anymore. 
Do you think it mattered one iota to the people in the Amazon warehouse in Illinois that was hit by a tornado if they were wearing a mask? Did it matter to them if their rescuers were wearing a mask or were vaccinated? Of course not. Because when you're buried in a collapsed building that has been hit by a tornado, covid is not your main concern, or any concern really.

It's time we put Covid in its proper perspective. 
I will say it again. Covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically. But by god if you have to have something medical, you better hope it's covid, because no one cares about anything else. 
Empathy... yes...


----------



## daveos

Breaking news 1st person in the world dies with Omicron in the UK.
That is terribly sad but news is twisting the story to put fear into people read carefully they died WITH it not necessarily from it, I think Boris is really loosing the plot now spreading scare stories we know it is a lot more contagious but as a rule the more contagious it is the weaker it becomes.
I would rather believe the Doctors and Scientists in South Africa who have been saying this for weeks I just think the UK government is trying to berry bad news.
Wonder what the Worlds media will make of this?.


----------



## rona

daveos said:


> I would rather believe the Doctors and Scientists in South Africa who have been saying this for weeks I just think the UK government is trying to berry bad news.
> Wonder what the Worlds media will make of this?.


I had trouble, when looking through SA press, to find much mention of Covid. It's certainly not headline news there


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm still not going out the thought of coming face to face with someone not wearing a mask frightens me. I don't understand why people are so bothered about wearing one, they are protecting other people as well as themselves. It's just thoughtless and selfish as far as I'm concerned, it's people like that who are stopping people like me trying to get part of our normal life back.


----------



## Psygon

daveos said:


> Breaking news 1st person in the world dies with Omicron in the UK.
> That is terribly sad but news is twisting the story to put fear into people read carefully they died WITH it not necessarily from it, I think Boris is really loosing the plot now spreading scare stories we know it is a lot more contagious but as a rule the more contagious it is the weaker it becomes.


I thought one of the worries is that the longer you leave covid running rampant the more chance there is of a mutation that then is more deadly than the current one? So if omicron manages to infect a whole load of people the chance of a deadly mutation increases? (I say this with absolutely no medical / scientific knowledge beyond GCSEs!)

(Though I do agree that the media is hyping everything up as per the norm with anything Covid related!)


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> Empathy? Seriously? Empathy?
> 
> Where is the empathy for the people who @Cleo38 described above who lost loved ones without being able to say goodbye? For the people with dementia who sit in a hospital confused and disoriented without a loved one to steady them?
> Where is the empathy for the carers who work 12 hour shifts wearing a mask the whole time and who just can't bring themselves to wear it one more minute while they pump gas and get accusatory stares and worse from the mask police?
> 
> Where is the empathy for the small business owners who have lost everything because of covid restrictions made it impossible to keep their stores and restaurants open? Where is the empathy for those without the luxury of working from home who do have to go out and about and have been doing it for a 18 months now, caught covid, recovered, are now fully vaccinated, and just don't see the point of mask wearing anymore?
> 
> I am so very tired of hearing people say those who don't care about covid are selfish or lacking in empathy.
> How very easy your life must be if your main concern is if the person near you at the bus station is vaccinated and wearing a mask.
> Meanwhile life continues, people are born and die, and things happen that are wholly unrelated to covid, but covid is all we care about anymore.
> Do you think it mattered one iota to the people in the Amazon warehouse in Illinois that was hit by a tornado if they were wearing a mask? Did it matter to them if their rescuers were wearing a mask or were vaccinated? Of course not. Because when you're buried in a collapsed building that has been hit by a tornado, covid is not your main concern, or any concern really.
> 
> It's time we put Covid in its proper perspective.
> I will say it again. Covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically. But by god if you have to have something medical, you better hope it's covid, because no one cares about anything else.
> Empathy... yes...


The trouble is, the fewer people that give a sh!t about others means more people in hospital with Covid, and the less resources there are for serious illnesses that are also killing people.

So I don't really think it's too much to ask to get vaccinated, wear a mask and give a toss about others, as it's precisely that behaviour that will reduce the impact on small businesses, make the health services able to look after others better and make spaces safer for those that can't work from home.


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> So I don't really think it's too much to ask to get vaccinated, wear a mask and give a toss about others,


Which is exactly what I, my family, and my co-workers have done. And it's still not enough.
Visiting hours at the hospital are still restricted, even though the hospital has zero covid cases.
Businesses are still restricted, even though they follow all protocols.
People are doing and have done what has been asked of them and it's still not enough. No wonder people are saying f-it.

The 'give a toss about others' line really irks me. Apparently the only way to show you care these days is to wear a mask. 
Seriously?


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> Which is exactly what I, my family, and my co-workers have done. And it's still not enough.
> Visiting hours at the hospital are still restricted, even though the hospital has zero covid cases.
> Businesses are still restricted, even though they follow all protocols.
> People are doing and have done what has been asked of them and it's still not enough. No wonder people are saying f-it.
> 
> The 'give a toss about others' line really irks me. Apparently the only way to show you care these days is to wear a mask.
> Seriously?


What's the other option, Covid wise? Stay in your house? What do you propose?

We still have an awful lot of people in the hospitals here. Sounds like your area is very different and in that you are lucky.

If the most people have to be put out here to ease the transmission in a very densely populated country (and to allow small business to function and to reduce pressure on our health services) is to wear a mask then so be it. And yes, I do see that as 'giving a toss about others'.


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> I had trouble, when looking through SA press, to find much mention of Covid. It's certainly not headline news there


https://theconversation.com/south-a...ovid-were-sensationalist-and-unhelpful-170412

*South African front-page stories about COVID were sensationalist and unhelpful*


----------



## daveos

Psygon said:


> I thought one of the worries is that the longer you leave covid running rampant the more chance there is of a mutation that then is more deadly than the current one? So if omicron manages to infect a whole load of people the chance of a deadly mutation increases? (I say this with absolutely no medical / scientific knowledge beyond GCSEs!)
> 
> (Though I do agree that the media is hyping everything up as per the norm with anything Covid related!)


Yes what you said is correct Viruses will always over time mutate the Virus wants to survive so it becomes more transmissible as we are now seeing but usually it becomes a milder illness, Common colds we have today were/are Coronaviruses they just weakened over time Russian flu and Spanish flu never went away they are still here now just no longer deadly and there was no Vaccinations then so fingers crossed this could be going the wright way some Scientists think it will be a good 3 more years before it becomes just like a Cold from what I read.


----------



## daveos

Magyarmum said:


> https://theconversation.com/south-a...ovid-were-sensationalist-and-unhelpful-170412
> 
> *South African front-page stories about COVID were sensationalist and unhelpful*


Suppose you could say the same about the UK Gutter press they only like to scare and bad news sells I'm afraid.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> Empathy? Seriously? Empathy?
> I am so very tired of hearing people say those who don't care about covid are selfish or lacking in empathy.
> 
> It's time we put Covid in its proper perspective.
> I will say it again. Covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically.


But if you really dont care about covid then you are lacking in empathy (as you would be if you said you didnt care about a devastating tsumani or school shooting or other random horrible thing!). Also if you dont follow sensible precautions that will benefit other people then you are kinda are selfish.
It is what it is.... it doesnt invalidate the fact that people are losing their businesses or vital health checks are getting lost under ther pressure covid created. You can feel bad about both things at the same time!

Also 'covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically'?? Try telling that to the people who died from it...oh wait, you cant.

Great news for you though that your local hospital has no cases, that is really brilliant. Alot of places with denser populations sadly arent in the same situation. My hospital does limit visitors and tests regularly but then again we have a steadily increasing rate of covid cases anyways (not as bad as last year, but its still early in the winter yet so we cant take any chances). Allowances are made though for relatives who are actively caring for a patient and also for those patients who are terminally ill and close to passing.
Here in the UK its all a balancing act really. Not sure what its like in the states but our NHS already struggles every winter due to lack of resources so we have to be extra careful not to get inundated.


----------



## O2.0

MilleD said:


> What's the other option, Covid wise? Stay in your house? What do you propose?
> 
> We still have an awful lot of people in the hospitals here. Sounds like your area is very different and in that you are lucky.
> 
> If the most people have to be put out here to ease the transmission in a very densely populated country (and to allow small business to function and to reduce pressure on our health services) is to wear a mask then so be it. And yes, I do see that as 'giving a toss about others'.


Covid isn't going away and we have to learn to live with it. 
It's not like at the beginning of the pandemic when we didn't have a vaccine or effective treatment. We now have both. We have an extremely effective vaccine and we have much better information about how to treat breakthrough cases.

So we need to stop acting like getting covid is the worst thing ever. It's not. And focusing everything on preventing infection is at this point in the game just ridiculous and not very caring of those who have things going on that have nothing to do with covid. Caring about others means caring about things other than covid too.

Every year I used to take a group of students to care homes to sing carols and sit with residents who get few visitors. Many of the students enjoy it so much they continue visiting throughout the year and make wonderful friendhsips.
We haven't done that in two years. 
I'm currently spending a lot of time in a facility with patients who will be there over Christmas. One gentleman never has any visitors. The other day he called out to me as I was walking by. He just wanted someone to talk to. I'm not allowed in his room. It's freaking heartbreaking. This is in a facility with no covid cases and I am fully vaccinated and was wearing a mask and I couldn't have a human moment with a person who desperately needed it. 
Giving a toss about others? What about giving a toss about that poor gentleman? He can't even have someone not related to him come sit with him for a few hours to chat.

And you should heed what is happening here. We're vaccinated, we're masking, cases are down, and we're *still* under strict restrictions. Has anyone stopped to ask what it's going to take for the restrictions to be eased? 
Remember when they were talking about herd immunity? If enough people get infected and/or vaccinated we'll be able to ease restrictions? 
But we haven't....


----------



## daveos

Everybody please wear your masks keep at least 2 meters apart wash/sanitise your hands and avoid crowded areas I have always done this and will continue to do so I hope not to pass it on we are in this together.


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> Also 'covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically'?? Try telling that to the people who died from it...oh wait, you cant.


That's a stupid argument. 
Why don't you tell the people who died in the recent tornados that covid is worse. Oh wait, you can't. 
See? I can play that game too.

Instead I shall tell my son and daughter who both got covid before the vaccine was available that they're fine. Because they are. My son was far sicker from his second vaccine than he ever was from covid.


----------



## Dimwit

O2.0 said:


> Remember when they were talking about herd immunity? If enough people get infected and/or vaccinated we'll be able to ease restrictions?
> But we haven't....


But we are talking about a global pandemic and we are nowhere near herd immunity levels, and won't be until EVERY country reaches the threshold for natural or acquired immunity. Either that or individual countries still have to maintain strict control of their borders to prevent new strains from getting in. Vaccines are a powerful tool against viruses, but they are not a magic bullet. While we still have regions with poor vaccine uptake and inadequate biosecurity we are selecting for strains of the virus that are more transmissible/vaccine resistant and these will have a global impact.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> That's a stupid argument.
> Why don't you tell the people who died in the recent tornados that covid is worse. Oh wait, you can't.
> See? I can play that game too.


Well, the worst thing that would of happened to people who died in a tornado would be 'a tornado', equally the worst thing that would of happened to somebody who died of covid would be 'covid'. That is what I meant! As I said, one thing does not invalidate the other.
The truth is that covid isnt going away and is likely to be just as deadly as flu in the future. Which is nothing to worry about for most people and a straight up killer to other more vulnerable people. I dont see how taking basic precautions like distancing and mask wearing is such a hardship whilst we really deal with this global problem.
So what if we have to take those precautions? Covid is a brand new thing so brand new lifestyle changes might have to happen around it (kinda like how before cars were invented nobody got hit by one and afterwards they had to create traffic rules due to all the people randomly getting hit by cars!).


----------



## rona

O2.0 said:


> That's a stupid argument.
> Why don't you tell the people who died in the recent tornados that covid is worse. Oh wait, you can't.
> See? I can play that game too.
> 
> Instead I shall tell my son and daughter who both got covid before the vaccine was available that they're fine. Because they are. My son was far sicker from his second vaccine than he ever was from covid.


Wow..................who's pulled your chain today?


----------



## Siskin

I’ve stopped reading press or listening to news reports on Covid, they over dramatise and sensationalise everything. I get my info from people like Dr John Campbell who is at least speaking directly to the S A head doctors about what is happening. Professor Tim Spector also has good information


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> I dont see how taking basic precautions like distancing and mask wearing is such a hardship whilst we really deal with this global problem.


Jesus Christ. 
Can you people actually read my posts please instead of jumping to argue without thinking? 
I wear a mask. I'm vaccinated. I've said so about 4 times just this morning. 
I've not once complained about having to wear a mask or having to be vaccinated.

I'm talking about people sitting in a care home rotting because a vaccinated, masked person like myself can't go visit them. 
Where is the empathy for those people?

I'm out, this is ridiculous. No one wants to see beyond their own tiny experience and think about what someone other than themselves might be experiencing.

You all live in a cushy, first world country where you get your vaccines for free, you have free healthcare, and if you lose your job or can't work, the state takes care of just about your every need. 
Not everyone lives like that okay?

People in other countries not getting vaccinated? Maybe they don't have the luxury of a readily available vaccine. 
How is someone who's a speech therapist supposed to do their job while wearing a mask? Have you thought about that? Have you tried to help someone pronounce a word without them seeing your face? 
Try to think outside your own experience and yes, have some empathy for those who don't share the same experience.


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> Wow..................who's pulled your chain today?


You're right, stepping away now.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

MilleD said:


> It looks like the NHS site is still offering them? Where does it say they aren't?
> 
> Edit to add - yes it says right at the end of the process.
> 
> Have you tried contacting your local authority? Ours have some available in libraries.


Oh I didn`t know about local authority possibly having some, I hope they can get the supply sorted soon. Although I don`t go anywhere to socialise, chance would be a fine thing, I do have to come into contact with my mums paid carers, district nurses and other health and social workers so think its only fair that I do regular tests.


----------



## mrs phas

BBC News - Covid: First UK death recorded with Omicron variant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59639007

*Sorry, in advance, if been posted already and I've missed it


----------



## Magyarmum

3dogs2cats said:


> There are no more LFT for home delivery available on the NHS site, they are advising to get them from pharmacy but both of my local pharmacies had none last week, hope they get this sorted asap!


You're lucky. We have to go to a special centre to have one and pay around £17.50 each time.

Edited to say it's just been announced we've had our first two cases of the Omicron variant in Hungary.

"Omicron variant of coronavirus has appeared in Hungary as well, it was presented in two laboratory samples in a married couple. One of the infected has mild symptoms, the other is in moderate condition and is being treated in hospital. We continue to ask that the unvaccinated should get vaccinated and the previously vaccinated should get the booster shot!"


----------



## mrs phas

In brighter news
Both my 'grandson' and Dil have completed their isolation-still haven't been told whether it was Omicron or not
Son who did lft every morning and has slept at mine since they tested positive, tested negative throughout, but still wore a mask behind the bar, jic, never caught it at all!
_*This*_ is what I don't understand,
Just how can someone be as close as two people can get (intimately close ) and NOT transmit it?
Doesn't make sense to me
Neither he nor she can have booster for 90 days and 'grandson' can't have his first for 90 days either


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> Well, the worst thing that would of happened to people who died in a tornado would be 'a tornado', equally the worst thing that would of happened to somebody who died of covid would be 'covid'. That is what I meant! As I said, one thing does not invalidate the other.
> The truth is that covid isnt going away and is likely to be just as deadly as flu in the future. Which is nothing to worry about for most people and a straight up killer to other more vulnerable people. I dont see how taking basic precautions like distancing and mask wearing is such a hardship whilst we really deal with this global problem.
> So what if we have to take those precautions? Covid is a brand new thing so brand new lifestyle changes might have to happen around it (kinda like how before cars were invented nobody got hit by one and afterwards they had to create traffic rules due to all the people randomly getting hit by cars!).


But Covid is taking priority when it shouldn't. Other illnesses/conditions are still as important to treat. This latest ridiculous notion of getting a booster by the end of the year is never going to happen. medical services are being put under too much pressure. Also I don't want a booster earlier. Mine is booked for the end of Jan & am keeping it for then.

Precautions are fine but not constantly being told that relatives can't visit dying loved ones, or those in care homes who waste away deprived of human contact or those whose home visits are affected or those whose cancer treatments are yet delayed again .... those are not acceptable & never will be.

I will wear a mask when I have to, I will get my vaccinations when needed but that's it. I will see relatives, I will see friends, I will go out if businesses are still open, I will socialise, I will live my life as I see fit


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> How is someone who's a speech therapist supposed to do their job while wearing a mask? Have you thought about that? Have you tried to help someone pronounce a word without them seeing your face?
> Try to think outside your own experience and yes, have some empathy for those who don't share the same experience.


Interestingly I had a similar problem last week with a patient who was deaf and we had to communicate with written messages as he couldnt see our faces. Not a huge problem except it bugged me that I couldnt convey tone so I ended up writing alot of messages with emoji type doodles so he would know if I was joking or serious! Also pretty sure that they make clear face masks for when you have to see someones face properly.
Nobody is saying that it isnt horrible that so much suffering is also happening around this pandemic (I feel like you also arent really reading other peoples responses to your concerns?) but equally nobody wants to test how well the vaccines work by exposing elderly, infirm or other vulnerable people to multiple infection sources (visitors) first!



Cleo38 said:


> I will wear a mask when I have to, I will get my vaccinations when needed but that's it. I will see relatives, I will see friends, I will go out if businesses are still open, I will socialise, I will live my life as I see fit


ooooooh....:Wideyed you said 'I' 9 times in that little paragraph. In other words,
me me me me me me me me me!
:Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> those whose cancer treatments are yet delayed again


Yes; they are managing to play that down by referring to them as ''routine operations'' I've noticed - still life and death for someone, just as much (maybe more) as the latest variant which we were told was ''symptomless' and that South Africa (whence it came) could not for the life in them work out why we were in a panic about it.


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> ooooooh....:Wideyed you said 'I' 9 times in that little paragraph. In other words,
> me me me me me me me me me!
> :Hilarious


Yes, that's coz I'm obviously selfish & inconsiderate .... Oh, & I hate the NHS!!!


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> Empathy? Seriously? Empathy?
> 
> Where is the empathy for the people who @Cleo38 described above who lost loved ones without being able to say goodbye? For the people with dementia who sit in a hospital confused and disoriented without a loved one to steady them?
> Where is the empathy for the carers who work 12 hour shifts wearing a mask the whole time and who just can't bring themselves to wear it one more minute while they pump gas and get accusatory stares and worse from the mask police?
> 
> Where is the empathy for the small business owners who have lost everything because of covid restrictions made it impossible to keep their stores and restaurants open? Where is the empathy for those without the luxury of working from home who do have to go out and about and have been doing it for a 18 months now, caught covid, recovered, are now fully vaccinated, and just don't see the point of mask wearing anymore?
> 
> I am so very tired of hearing people say those who don't care about covid are selfish or lacking in empathy.
> How very easy your life must be if your main concern is if the person near you at the bus station is vaccinated and wearing a mask.
> Meanwhile life continues, people are born and die, and things happen that are wholly unrelated to covid, but covid is all we care about anymore.
> Do you think it mattered one iota to the people in the Amazon warehouse in Illinois that was hit by a tornado if they were wearing a mask? Did it matter to them if their rescuers were wearing a mask or were vaccinated? Of course not. Because when you're buried in a collapsed building that has been hit by a tornado, covid is not your main concern, or any concern really.
> 
> It's time we put Covid in its proper perspective.
> I will say it again. Covid is not the worst thing that can happen to you medically. But by god if you have to have something medical, you better hope it's covid, because no one cares about anything else.
> Empathy... yes...


Yes, empathy.

Lots of people, me included, have lost people in the past two years from Covid and other illnesses that may or may not have been better handled had we not been in a pandemic. IF people had more empathy for those who were working in the NHS, those who lost loved ones and any numerous situations, and stopped stockpiling, thought beyond Covid to other predicaments, illnesses then maybe there would be less of a situation here. Having witnessed my husband and friends doing a toy run for families in need and volunteered for a charity who support families in poverty and donate to The Big Issue foundation, there is a whole load of social situations and a climate emergency still happening.

I'm not aware of anyone on PF claiming those care a little less about Covid are selfish or lacking in empathy. It's not the political thread but that may give a clue as to whom I believe is lacking in empathy or wisdom (whilst hiding beneath the pandemic to pass laws)


----------



## daveos

MollySmith said:


> Yes, empathy.
> 
> Lots of people, me included, have lost people in the past two years from Covid and other illnesses that may or may not have been better handled had we not been in a pandemic. IF people had more empathy for those who were working in the NHS, those who lost loved ones and any numerous situations, and stopped stockpiling, thought beyond Covid to other predicaments, illnesses then maybe there would be less of a situation here. Having witnessed my husband and friends doing a toy run for families in need and volunteered for a charity who support families in poverty and donate to The Big Issue foundation, there is a whole load of social situations and a climate emergency still happening.
> 
> I'm not aware of anyone on PF claiming those care a little less about Covid are selfish or lacking in empathy. It's not the political thread but that may give a clue as to whom I believe is lacking in empathy or wisdom (whilst hiding beneath the pandemic to pass laws)


Very well put we are all in this together.


----------



## daveos

Siskin said:


> I've stopped reading press or listening to news reports on Covid, they over dramatise and sensationalise everything. I get my info from people like Dr John Campbell who is at least speaking directly to the S A head doctors about what is happening. Professor Tim Spector also has good information


Yes Dr John Campbell is always very interesting to listen too better than any media outlet.


----------



## MollySmith

daveos said:


> Very well put we are all in this together.


Thank you, I certainly didn't mean to contribute to a heated debate on empathy! I appreciate that the situation world wide is very different and though it's the same storm, we sail in different boats.

Hope everyone is okay. It's an emotive time as we run up to the holidays. I'm sure many of us are desperately missing loved ones whom we may not be able to see at the moment or friends and family who have passed away. Hugs to those who needs them.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> Yes, empathy.
> 
> Lots of people, me included, have lost people in the past two years from Covid and other illnesses that may or may not have been better handled had we not been in a pandemic. IF people had more empathy for those who were working in the NHS, those who lost loved ones and any numerous situations, and stopped stockpiling, thought beyond Covid to other predicaments, illnesses then maybe there would be less of a situation here. Having witnessed my husband and friends doing a toy run for families in need and volunteered for a charity who support families in poverty and donate to The Big Issue foundation, there is a whole load of social situations and a climate emergency still happening.
> 
> I'm not aware of anyone on PF claiming those care a little less about Covid are selfish or lacking in empathy. It's not the political thread but that may give a clue as to whom I believe is lacking in empathy or wisdom (whilst hiding beneath the pandemic to pass laws)


I think there is a lack of empathy for people who do choose different paths. The lack of consideration for people who we may not be aware of what hardships they are suffering but instead some chose to castigate them for not wearing a mask or stock piling on fuel.

When I posted on here last year that I was seeing my dying mum & chose to go against the rules I received replies telling me how selfish I was ... seriously??!! How is that being empathetic? Surely if life nothing is B&W if we all choose to go down that route then we do lose empathy & consideration of others


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> I think there is a lack of empathy for people who do choose different paths. The lack of consideration for people who we may not be aware of what hardships they are suffering but instead some chose to castigate them for not wearing a mask or stock piling on fuel.
> 
> When I posted on here last year that I was seeing my dying mum & chose to go against the rules I received replies telling me how selfish I was ... seriously??!! How is that being empathetic? Surely if life nothing is B&W if we all choose to go down that route then we do lose empathy & consideration of others


I am so sorry that you experienced those replies and all you've been through with your mum's passing.

My limited mental health training is responses one to one, but I do see your point. My goddaughter for example doesn't wear a mask, she's exempt (as am I but I do) but has been told off. You're right, it's about different paths - the art of empathy and it's power is in the listening and learning and my point way back, was there's too little of that. If we had a dollop more, I think we'd all be better for it but aware I'm being hugely optimistic.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm still not going out the thought of coming face to face with someone not wearing a mask frightens me. I don't understand why people are so bothered about wearing one, they are protecting other people as well as themselves. It's just thoughtless and selfish as far as I'm concerned, it's people like that who are stopping people like me trying to get part of our normal life back.


Yes. Its ok for those who are healthy perhaps not for the vulnerable. I've just found out that the Booster vaccine might not be as effective for me as I recently had two in fusions of Rituximab so i wont be taking any chances.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

willa said:


> Booster booked today, but nothing available until early January in London
> 
> Also why Address ( Pre recorded) the Nation at 8pm, if it's just regarding the Booser rollout ?
> 
> What's so urgent it can't wait for a normal press conference


Hiding something else? Trying to take the heat off all the Christmas Party stuff? Beyond that, I've no idea!


----------



## daveos

Im surprised the Government are not promoting the use of vitamin supplements.
Vitamin D Zinc and Vitamin C are all very good at boosting our immune system sure they won't stop us catching it but studies show they help against it and other nasties.


----------



## Boxerluver30

I have to say I agree with @Cleo38 and @O2.0 . My mum is currently going through chemo for breast cancer, so forgive me if covid is one of the last things on my mind. It does feel sometimes like some people (not saying this applies to anyone on here) have the stance that if you do say what about the impact on others that it implies you don't care about covid and those that have been affected/died from it. When in reality this couldn't be further from the truth, at least for me anyway. Of course I care, its just not my first priority at the moment. I still wear my mask at work and out and about , i still maintain distance from others. But I do understand those who are sick of this as well and just want to return to normal.


----------



## £54etgfb6

daveos said:


> Im surprised the Government are not promoting the use of vitamin supplements.
> Vitamin D Zinc and Vitamin C are all very good at boosting our immune system sure they won't stop us catching it but studies show they help against it and other nasties.


The government haven't (and shouldn't) recommend supplements as preventative measures as the scientific data showing that they reduce severity/shorten recovery time of an ailment is small. There is currently no robust data to advise taking them to ward off illness. Additionally, whilst vitamin d/c and zinc are crucial to the function of your immune system most people with a good diet should already have a sufficient intake and going over this intake via use of supplements can actually have adverse effects.

However, the above scenario is an idealisation and based on people eating a healthy, balanced diet which most people in the UK do not. It _can_ be safe (and sometimes beneficial) to take supplements, particularly for population groups at risk of nutritional deficiencies but ultimately the government cannot recommend this as a blanket statement to everyone as a healthy human _should_ have an adequate intake of all vitamins and minerals.


----------



## catz4m8z

daveos said:


> Im surprised the Government are not promoting the use of vitamin supplements.


Probably coz it would sound like one more thing we were being told to do and people are apparently getting abit peed with that!

I dont imagine there is anybody not living on a desert island who hasnt been affected in some way by this pandemic. It must be awful if you are barred from seeing family or have your operation cancelled. It does happen all the time though....nursing homes might be closed to visitors if they have a norovirus outbreak or routine operations might be cancelled if there is a bad road traffic accident in the area (both examples I have seen happen) its just never happened on such a vast scale before.
It certainly gets me frustrated, especially the not knowing. What is safe to do and what the rules are change so often I really cant keep up. Its not even as if there is anybody to blame either....we are all just reacting to it as it happens.


----------



## Cleo38

Boxerluver30 said:


> I have to say I agree with @Cleo38 and @O2.0 . My mum is currently going through chemo for breast cancer, so forgive me if covid is one of the last things on my mind. It does feel sometimes like some people (not saying this applies to anyone on here) have the stance that if you do say what about the impact on others that it implies you don't care about covid and those that have been affected/died from it. When in reality this couldn't be further from the truth, at least for me anyway. Of course I care, its just not my first priority at the moment. I still wear my mask at work and out and about , i still maintain distance from others. But I do understand those who are sick of this as well and just want to return to normal.


So sorry to read this. It must be such a scary time for you & your mum. Hope you are getting all the support you need. The Macmillan Cancer Support line was fantastic when I was struggling. They provided alot of practical support as well as emotional

Cancer information and support - Macmillan Cancer Support


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Okay, so now we all need more boosters (fine, I'll do it) and those that can are WFH again (hurrah! Hopefully fewer cars on the road in the morning) - I'm just wondering if there is actually going to be a way out? I cannot see how. I just can't. I don't mind wearing a mask, I'm used to it all day so to wear it out in a shop/in a theatre or whatever is easy enough for me. 

I've had to do some spectacularly awful things through this pandemic. Hideous. Things I never, ever want to have to do again. I am sick to the back teeth of it. Honestly. I am so thankful that my MIL died before the pandemic, as to have been barred from being with her at the end of her life would have been too awful to contemplate for my husband and his dad. My thoughts are with everyone who is trying to support loved ones through treatment/diagnosis of other conditions. 

People are so isolated. We've "forgotten" how to interact it feels to me. I put my arm around a lady who needed some comfort and immediately apologised to her because it's against the rules. I was complained about because a woman saw me hug a woman who was having an awful time. I'm someone who touches people when they talk to them, who puts their arm around a person who needs it - and it's all been snatched away. It's so pathetic sounding to complain about that - but it feels to me like I only have extra expressive eyebrows to rely upon now. 

What is to be done? What can we actually do? What do we need to do to go back to normality? I just don't know.


----------



## Boxerluver30

Cleo38 said:


> So sorry to read this. It must be such a scary time for you & your mum. Hope you are getting all the support you need. The Macmillan Cancer Support line was fantastic when I was struggling. They provided alot of practical support as well as emotional
> 
> Cancer information and support - Macmillan Cancer Support


Thank you, I'm doing ok at the moment . My work have been really good with supporting me, they have granted me special leave days to help look after her and my manager is there to go talk to if i need it. I also have supportive work colleagues and friends . It is really scary still though, we are lucky in that they discovered the cancer early on so she has a good prognosis. Despite all that though cancer is just awful and i've had experiences of it in the family but never with someone this close before. Her chemo is due to end at the end of January and then she has surgery to remove the lump and I think the lymphnodes around that area too. I'm sorry to hear you lost your mum x .

We are definitely thankful in a way that this didn't happen last year as I know cancer services were affected a lot at the height of the pandemic.


----------



## MollySmith

Boxerluver30 said:


> I have to say I agree with @Cleo38 and @O2.0 . My mum is currently going through chemo for breast cancer, so forgive me if covid is one of the last things on my mind. It does feel sometimes like some people (not saying this applies to anyone on here) have the stance that if you do say what about the impact on others that it implies you don't care about covid and those that have been affected/died from it. When in reality this couldn't be further from the truth, at least for me anyway. Of course I care, its just not my first priority at the moment. I still wear my mask at work and out and about , i still maintain distance from others. But I do understand those who are sick of this as well and just want to return to normal.


I am so sorry that must be really tough for all of you. I hope you have all the support you need at this difficult time.


----------



## Cleo38

Mrs Funkin said:


> Okay, so now we all need more boosters (fine, I'll do it) and those that can are WFH again (hurrah! Hopefully fewer cars on the road in the morning) - I'm just wondering if there is actually going to be a way out? I cannot see how. I just can't. I don't mind wearing a mask, I'm used to it all day so to wear it out in a shop/in a theatre or whatever is easy enough for me.
> 
> I've had to do some spectacularly awful things through this pandemic. Hideous. Things I never, ever want to have to do again. I am sick to the back teeth of it. Honestly. I am so thankful that my MIL died before the pandemic, as to have been barred from being with her at the end of her life would have been too awful to contemplate for my husband and his dad. My thoughts are with everyone who is trying to support loved ones through treatment/diagnosis of other conditions.
> 
> People are so isolated. We've "forgotten" how to interact it feels to me. I put my arm around a lady who needed some comfort and immediately apologised to her because it's against the rules. I was complained about because a woman saw me hug a woman who was having an awful time. I'm someone who touches people when they talk to them, who puts their arm around a person who needs it - and it's all been snatched away. It's so pathetic sounding to complain about that - but it feels to me like I only have extra expressive eyebrows to rely upon now.
> 
> What is to be done? What can we actually do? What do we need to do to go back to normality? I just don't know.


Jesus, what have we become that you can't offer a distressed person some comfort without being told off?!!!


----------



## Boxerluver30

MollySmith said:


> I am so sorry that must be really tough for all of you. I hope you have all the support you need at this difficult time.


Thank you @MollySmith


----------



## Boxerluver30

Mrs Funkin said:


> Okay, so now we all need more boosters (fine, I'll do it) and those that can are WFH again (hurrah! Hopefully fewer cars on the road in the morning) - I'm just wondering if there is actually going to be a way out? I cannot see how. I just can't. I don't mind wearing a mask, I'm used to it all day so to wear it out in a shop/in a theatre or whatever is easy enough for me.
> 
> I've had to do some spectacularly awful things through this pandemic. Hideous. Things I never, ever want to have to do again. I am sick to the back teeth of it. Honestly. I am so thankful that my MIL died before the pandemic, as to have been barred from being with her at the end of her life would have been too awful to contemplate for my husband and his dad. My thoughts are with everyone who is trying to support loved ones through treatment/diagnosis of other conditions.
> 
> People are so isolated. We've "forgotten" how to interact it feels to me. I put my arm around a lady who needed some comfort and immediately apologised to her because it's against the rules. I was complained about because a woman saw me hug a woman who was having an awful time. I'm someone who touches people when they talk to them, who puts their arm around a person who needs it - and it's all been snatched away. It's so pathetic sounding to complain about that - but it feels to me like I only have extra expressive eyebrows to rely upon now.
> 
> What is to be done? What can we actually do? What do we need to do to go back to normality? I just don't know.


It is awful that you can't even offer some comfort nowadays without second guessing and questioning if its the right thing . What you've written here pretty much sums up why I can understand those who are sick of the whole thing. Because every time it looks like there's a light at the end of the tunnel something else happens to throw us back again. I personally find it incredibly frustrating and combined with what I have going on at the moment, even resentful. The thought of wearing masks permanently I'll be honest does not appeal to me at all, I hate the things and find them uncomfortable. Its even worse when combined with my sensory issues due to autism. I've just had to learn to tolerate them but every time i put one on I can't wait to get it off. They are important to keep everyone safe I get that but the selfish part of me doesn't like it at all .


----------



## Calvine

Boxerluver30 said:


> It is awful that you can't even offer some comfort nowadays without second guessing and questioning if its the right thing . What you've written here pretty much sums up why I can understand those who are sick of the whole thing. Because every time it looks like there's a light at the end of the tunnel something else happens to throw us back again. I personally find it incredibly frustrating and combined with what I have going on at the moment, even resentful. The thought of wearing masks permanently I'll be honest does not appeal to me at all, I hate the things and find them uncomfortable. Its even worse when combined with my sensory issues due to autism. I've just had to learn to tolerate them but every time i put one on I can't wait to get it off. They are important to keep everyone safe I get that but the selfish part of me doesn't like it at all .


 I know what you are saying about masks; on a cold day I quite like the fact that they keep my face warm if there's a really cold wind . . . BUT I hate anything which interferes with my vision and for the mask to be any use, it has to be fairly high up and I feel like a horse wearing blinkers and it worries me when I walk downstairs and try to look down. (I am always amazed how Claudia Winkelman can bear that long fringe near her eyes.) Another thing that annoys me is the ridiculous vocabulary in use . . . PLAN A - TIER 3 - LEVEL 4. Now they are back talking about bubbles and ''groups of six''. You're right, and most people I know have done what they thought was right, got two jabs and now there's talk of another and another after that - as if every time there is another variant another jab may be needed. I think before long ''fully vaccinated'' will mean more than two jabs. Apparently they have run out of tests now as well, so that's handy.


----------



## Pawscrossed

I recall watching a programme a few years ago about the survivors of the awful experiences of Auschwitz - and I preface this comment with caution it's _not_ an insensitive comparison I make but an observation having been made very aware that threads can escalate fast on here. In the programme, a daughter of a survivor who had endured her own trauma in her adulthood life said that all she had been through was diminished by her mother's experience and that had deep repercussions for all their mental health. Those words never left me. Each woman had an experience and neither was measurable set against the other since the outcomes were equally painful in as much as the impact was felt by them both.

I feel that's somewhat relevant to how we all perceive 'now'. It's probably one of the biggest life experiences that we'll go through _together_ but within that are continual issues that, had we not been in a pandemic, would have been at the forefront. Some very private and personal. But I've seen such compassion and empathy here from almost everyone towards those who are struggling with other problems (and Covid) - in the main and it is such a shame that there are some who don't see that. I mean, most of you have turned up each day to share something or allow space to talk and natter. That's pretty amazing isn't? It's sad to see that one thing has been taken here and pulled apart in view of that.

And it is no wonder we're all exhausted and fed up, a bit frayed around the edges.


----------



## Siskin

daveos said:


> Im surprised the Government are not promoting the use of vitamin supplements.
> Vitamin D Zinc and Vitamin C are all very good at boosting our immune system sure they won't stop us catching it but studies show they help against it and other nasties.


I think unless it's for something specific doctors can't recommend what are basically supplements, so I have been prescribed vitamin D and calcium for osteopenia which makes it a bit different I suppose. However I was asked several times over the last few days if I was taking anything other then prescribed meds (once I had told them about those) and when I said I had been taking vit D prior to being prescribed them recently and also Zinc and I was taking them in order to boost my immune system there has been a lot of wise nodding and some agreed with me verbally.
The government did send vulnerable people vit d last winter if they wanted to have it. It was said that this was in order to keep the vulnerables D levels up due to not going out much due to shielding, I suppose this could have been a way of sneaking in vit D to boost immunity, but it's never arisen again has it.
It seems obvious to me that boosting immunity with simple supplements is worth doing, why get antsy about taking something so ordinary, plenty of people already munch on supplements already. Perhaps vit D and zinc aren't trendy enough to some eyes or am I just being cynical
I do wonder if anyone has recommended Dr Campbell to Boris


----------



## Siskin

A couple of nurses were telling me of funny things they’ve seen on a&e mainly what people seems to ram up up their botties. They said that having to wear masks turned out be very useful as it hid that they were laughing like mad.
Apparently the hospital was closed a few weeks go as the bomb squad was called to deal with what some person had popped up his nether regions.


----------



## Boxerluver30

Siskin said:


> A couple of nurses were telling me of funny things they've seen on a&e mainly what people seems to ram up up their botties. They said that having to wear masks turned out be very useful as it hid that they were laughing like mad.
> Apparently the hospital was closed a few weeks go as the bomb squad was called to deal with what some person had popped up his nether regions.


Liked for the nurses stories, I suppose thats one useful aspect of masks . Scary about the bomb squad though


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> A couple of nurses were telling me of funny things they've seen on a&e mainly what people seems to ram up up their botties. They said that having to wear masks turned out be very useful as it hid that they were laughing like mad.
> Apparently the hospital was closed a few weeks go as the bomb squad was called to deal with what some person had popped up his nether regions.


OMG..... our former neighbour was a nurse and she said Eiffel Tower was popular... 

How are you doing today?


----------



## MilleD

daveos said:


> Im surprised the Government are not promoting the use of vitamin supplements.
> Vitamin D Zinc and Vitamin C are all very good at boosting our immune system sure they won't stop us catching it but studies show they help against it and other nasties.


The government were giving out free vitamin D supplements to the clinically vulnerable during this.

So they have pretty much promoted that.


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> OMG..... our former neighbour was a nurse and she said Eiffel Tower was popular...
> 
> How are you doing today?


I'm chuckling about the Eiffel Tower and definitely omg, more or less what we all said.

I'm ok, got a bit of a leak on one of the incisions, it's not too bad and is gradually reducing in quantity and colour (from blood to more like serum). The on call orthopaedic doc isn't too concerned as he feels a natural thing to occur given that it's on the knee. My surgeon is a little more concerned as it's where he excised an area of infection which looked to have dried out, but you never know. He's worried in case an infection starts.
I guess this will stop me leaving sooner rather then later. Have started walking with a zimmer which is good.


----------



## David C

First Boris addressed the nation and now Kier. This never happens. The tories know they have ballsed up big time with 2020 Christmas partygate and know people are basically telling them to get lost. 
I do think though two in two days and Sajid Javid saying this morning that he can't guarantee schools won't close again means we are heading for another lockdown


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> I'm chuckling about the Eiffel Tower and definitely omg, more or less what we all said.
> 
> I'm ok, got a bit of a leak on one of the incisions, it's not too bad and is gradually reducing in quantity and colour (from blood to more like serum). The on call orthopaedic doc isn't too concerned as he feels a natural thing to occur given that it's on the knee. My surgeon is a little more concerned as it's where he excised an area of infection which looked to have dried out, but you never know. He's worried in case an infection starts.
> I guess this will stop me leaving sooner rather then later. Have started walking with a zimmer which is good.


Oh no, I hope that there's no infection, but great they're keeping an eye on it. And well done on the zimmer frame that's amazing!

(I'm still trying to get my brain around what someone stuck up their bottom what would have caused bomb squad to come out... I clearly have a sheltered life!! )


----------



## MollySmith

David C said:


> First Boris addressed the nation and now Kier. This never happens. The tories know they have ballsed up big time with 2020 Christmas partygate and know people are basically telling them to get lost.
> I do think though two in two days and Sajid Javid saying this morning that he can't guarantee schools won't close again means we are heading for another lockdown


I hope it's not more of Kier going on about how crap Boris is. Something more original than the broken record would be helpful, though goodness knows what. I'll zip it now as it's probably erring to Covid political thread!


----------



## Psygon

MollySmith said:


> Oh no, I hope that there's no infection, but great they're keeping an eye on it. And well done on the zimmer frame that's amazing!
> 
> (I'm still trying to get my brain around what someone stuck up their bottom what would have caused bomb squad to come out... I clearly have a sheltered life!! )


It might just be an aerosol can that could explode under certain conditions. I watch far too many medical dramas


----------



## Siskin

MollySmith said:


> I hope it's not more of Kier going on about how crap Boris is. Something more original than the broken record would be helpful, though goodness knows what. I'll zip it now as it's probably erring to Covid political thread!


Some sort of grenade apparently, I don't know if this is a modern name for something explosive rather then what I'm thinking a grenade is. What on earth was the person thinking


----------



## MollySmith

Psygon said:


> It might just be an aerosol can that could explode under certain conditions. I watch far too many medical dramas


 Everyday is a school day here!



Siskin said:


> Some sort of grenade apparently, I don't know if this is a modern name for something explosive rather then what I'm thinking a grenade is. What on earth was the person thinking


More importantly what did the bomb squad think! :Mooning :Hilarious


----------



## Psygon

MollySmith said:


> Everyday is a school day here!
> 
> More importantly what did the bomb squad think! :Mooning :Hilarious


I had to Google it. 
https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb...s-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/

He fell on it ..


----------



## Siskin

Psygon said:


> I had to Google it.
> https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb...s-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/
> 
> He fell on it ..


Ha ha, slipped and fell


----------



## MollySmith

Psygon said:


> I had to Google it.
> https://metro.co.uk/2021/12/05/bomb...s-find-wwii-shell-stuck-up-mans-bum-15710207/
> 
> He fell on it ..


An instant coffee jar with pins in the lid :Wideyed

I'm slightly mind-boggled by the numbers (including 57mm). If people stopped sticking Buzz Light Year toys up their bottoms that's £340,000 saved. Who knew??!


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Ha ha, slipped and fell


Next week he'll be naked vacuuming….

Many many years ago I was a junior designer on a fetish magazine sssssshhhhh


----------



## Siskin

Apparently all the ‘things’ removed have to be given back to the person it was found in which was rather embarrassing when a dildo went missing from theatre and couldn’t be found. It was eventually located on the 9th floor, the theatres are on the 1st floor I think. No questions were asked why it went there, but curiosity has ruled ever since.


----------



## kimthecat

Don't forget there is a Covid Political , lets try and keep the two threads separate.


----------



## catz4m8z

kimthecat said:


> Don't forget there is a Covid Political , lets try and keep the two threads separate.


I feel like the tangent this thread has gone off on isnt political though. Unless you think somebody might try to slip some politcal commentary in through the 'back door'?:Wideyed
:Hilarious


----------



## Cully

MollySmith said:


> Next week he'll be naked vacuuming….
> 
> Many many years ago I was a junior designer on a fetish magazine sssssshhhhh


I thought you said you lived a sheltered life!! Not so it seems.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> I thought you said you lived a sheltered life!! Not so it seems.


Until that point very much so! It was eye opening! I remember having to put stickers over things on video covers. Mind you a fellow graduate got a job in a DIY chain and had to photoshop lawnmowers. I feel it was an informative part of my career.


----------



## MollySmith

catz4m8z said:


> I feel like the tangent this thread has gone off on isnt political though. Unless you think somebody might try to slip some politcal commentary in through the 'back door'?:Wideyed
> :Hilarious


Talking from one's bottom? I'll leave that to the 'experts'


----------



## Cully

MollySmith said:


> Until that point very much so! It was eye opening! I remember having to put stickers over things on video covers. Mind you a fellow graduate got a job in a DIY chain and had to photoshop lawnmowers. I feel it was an informative part of my career.


You mean it shaped who you are today.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> You mean it shaped who you are today.


hahah! Almost certainly (my friend actually went into garden design…….!!)


----------



## Calvine

Psygon said:


> He fell on it .


Not funny - it could happen to anyone!


----------



## rona

OH just tried for LFT and has been told there's none within a 30 mile radius 

They've run out haven't they?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

rona said:


> OH just tried for LFT and has been told there's none within a 30 mile radius
> 
> They've run out haven't they?


I think they have Rona! I know last week the pharmacy was getting low on stocks but didn't think much of it but by Friday they had none. If it was just yesterday that the pharmacies had run out I would have understood it as obviously due to not being order online but they had already out run out, and if your OH can't find one it's obviously not just in this small area of the UK.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> OH just tried for LFT and has been told there's none within a 30 mile radius
> 
> They've run out haven't they?


On purpose? A covid passport for either vaccinated or negative LFT.....?


----------



## willa

No PCR Tests available either !


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> On purpose? A covid passport for either vaccinated or negative LFT.....?


I work in a pharmacy and it's definitely not on purpose. We cannot get enough stock in from manufacturers and frequently have to change manufacturers we source from due to lack of stock. We also go through a ridiculous amount of tests per day despite a limit of one box per person. Our supply has been pushed to it's limit due to Omicron with people coming into store and asking to leave with 3 boxes "just in case" which is impossible for us to facilitate. The Omicron variant was not entirely predictable and so we haven't been able to catch up with the increased need for LFTs just yet.

And without sparking political outrage: we cannot get them into the country (they're from china) because of lack of drivers and issues getting things into the country. We have common medications that we haven't been able to get for over a month and LFTs are a part of this. It's a horrible situation to be in but it's definitely not on purpose.


----------



## rona

Well, that will drop the covid numbers won't it?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

rona said:


> Well, that will drop the covid numbers won't it?


It will indeed! I presume seeing as the vote to allow contacts of Omicron positive cases to do a LFT everyday, will almost certainly get through the HoC later today, I suppose tests must be made available to them. I dont go anywhere socially. i am a full time unpaid carer so have no chance of going anywhere but as I am in close contact with paid carers and other health workers I have been performing LFT twice weekly, got none now though!


----------



## willa

The Red List for travel has been dropped.

How does that make sense, The cases in this country will just get higher ?


----------



## Psygon

willa said:


> The Red List for travel has been dropped.
> 
> How does that make sense, The cases in this country will just get higher ?


I thought that too, but I guess it's a bit of an admission that its too late to stop it now as so many supposedly have it.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Psygon said:


> I thought that too, but I guess it's a bit of an admission that its too late to stop it now as so many supposedly have it.


 Yes that is the reason for dropping the red list as Omicron is now circulating throughout the Uk no point in trying to stop it reaching here!


----------



## MollySmith

I noticed that our county council were posting on Twitter about where to get LFT kits. If you’re not on Twitter and you’d like me to look up your council, happy to do that. Just let me know which one.


----------



## MollySmith

If it's helpful this - seems to suggest LFT kits are available at rapid testing sites


----------



## simplysardonic

Siskin said:


> A couple of nurses were telling me of funny things they've seen on a&e mainly what people seems to ram up up their botties. They said that having to wear masks turned out be very useful as it hid that they were laughing like mad.
> *Apparently the hospital was closed a few weeks go as the bomb squad was called to deal with what some person had popped up his nether regions*.


Tripped & fell on his own ordnance:Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> Yes that is the reason for dropping the red list as Omicron is now circulating throughout the Uk no point in trying to stop it reaching here!


Like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, again.


----------



## Blackadder

Happy Paws2 said:


> Like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, again.


Not sure what that means  It was already here by the time Sth Africa identified it.


----------



## Siskin

Blackadder said:


> Not sure what that means  It was already here by the time Sth Africa identified it.


I'm wondering if the bad cold that a lot of people have had was omicron


----------



## Blackadder

Who knows? If you look at what the Sth Africans are saying it is a mild illness with cold like symptoms....


----------



## Siskin

Blackadder said:


> Who knows? If you look at what the Sth Africans are saying it is a mild illness with cold like symptoms....


Yes I've been following this elsewhere. The main worry is that it's only been recently recognised and no one knows yet if there are say any long term issues or if after the mild illness does it come back again in a more serious way. That's mainly why there is a flap on


----------



## SusieRainbow

Anyone see this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712
Needle free vaccinaton.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> I guess this will stop me leaving sooner rather then later. Have started walking with a zimmer which is good.


Any escape day in sight yet?


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Any escape day in sight yet?


I really would like to say today, not sure how much longer they can keep me. Physio got me to try walking using crutches again and that worked well which was great.


----------



## Happy Paws2

SusieRainbow said:


> Anyone see this?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712
> Needle free vaccinaton.


It will properly end up costing to much for the NHS to use, hope I'm wrong,


----------



## Arny

Happy Paws2 said:


> It will properly end up costing to much for the NHS to use, hope I'm wrong,


Although vaccination is cheap the administering of them to such large numbers is getting pricey and the fact its taking staff away from other tasks so they are looking into other ways.
Think a nasal spray (like they have with flu) or something else you can do easily yourself will be more likely than the above though.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Siskin said:


> I'm wondering if the bad cold that a lot of people have had was omicron


 Would that not imply the covid tests are not so good at picking up the omicron variant? Although technically the main symptoms for having a PCR test don`t include those for a common cold most people I know who had a cold got themselves tested, especially those who work in certain environments who felt they had to be sure it was not covid. I remember a nurse coming to take mums blood was full of cold and remarking she`d had PCR tests but all negative. Its an interesting one because if Omicron does turn out to be like a common cold then hopefully we can stop the need to isolate as we don`t have to for a cold or even flu although in my opinion if anyone is walking around saying they have flu then they probably don`t, I barely knew my own name when i had flu let alone walk! 
On the subject of walking @Siskin I hope the physio goes well and you can go home today.


----------



## rona

3dogs2cats said:


> Its an interesting one because if Omicron does turn out to be like a common cold then hopefully we can stop the need to isolate as we don`t have to for a cold or even flu although in my opinion if anyone is walking around saying they have flu then they probably don`t, I barely knew my own name when i had flu let alone walk!


I've only ever had Flu once, had too lay in a darkened room for two days.........couldn't move or my head would have exploded!

I think too many people with a bad cold, call it Flu


----------



## Jesthar

I know a lot of people have been wondering why boosters work better than being double jabbed, even if they are the same vaccine as before. I found this article very helpful in explaining how that works:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59639973


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> I know a lot of people have been wondering why boosters work better than being double jabbed, even if they are the same vaccine as before. I found this article very helpful in explaining how that works:
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59639973


The T cells have a big part in combating infection, once activated they keep the memory of the virus


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> I'm wondering if the bad cold that a lot of people have had was omicron


I been wondering for sometime if the very bad cough, bad breathing, high temperature and felt is if I was dying over the Christmas 2019 was Covid and not Flu but at the time I'd never heard of Covid.


----------



## ForestWomble

SusieRainbow said:


> Anyone see this?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712
> Needle free vaccinaton.


That looks like a great alternative.

I also saw something about a 'plaster' covered in tiny needles?

I prefer the idea in your link, I did jump at the click though. I'm intrigued as to how that works, but hopefully it'll be a cheap enough way of doing things that it'll start to be seen everywhere.


----------



## ForestWomble

Happy Paws2 said:


> I been wondering for sometime if the very bad cough, bad breathing, high temperature and felt is if I was dying over the Christmas 2019 was Covid and not Flu but at the time I'd never heard of Covid.


I've heard a lot of people wondering the same thing.


----------



## daveos

Siskin said:


> I'm wondering if the bad cold that a lot of people have had was omicron


Im thinking the same as you I never really get colds last one was around 6 years ago remember it lingered for quite a time.
I had the cold that was going around regarded as the worst ever back at the end of October early November, It was a very heavy cold hell of a lot of sneezing that was tiring a very runny nose just like a tap non stop and before it came out as a cold I had a really scratchy sore throat that was the worst for me but all symptoms had gone by 5/6 days I recall.
Now those symptoms are listed as possible for Omicron I tested myself LFT all the time they were always negative so don't know what to think it could have been here a lot longer maybe than previously thought.


----------



## rona

SusieRainbow said:


> Anyone see this?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712
> Needle free vaccinaton.





ForestWomble said:


> That looks like a great alternative.
> 
> I also saw something about a 'plaster' covered in tiny needles?
> 
> I prefer the idea in your link, I did jump at the click though. I'm intrigued as to how that works, but hopefully it'll be a cheap enough way of doing things that it'll start to be seen everywhere.


This method has been around for years. I bought my old boss something similar to take his insulin. This was years ago


----------



## SusieRainbow

rona said:


> This method has been around for years. I bought my old boss something similar to take his insulin. This was years ago


I wonder why it's not used then.


----------



## ForestWomble

rona said:


> This method has been around for years. I bought my old boss something similar to take his insulin. This was years ago





SusieRainbow said:


> I wonder why it's not used then.


I wonder that too.


----------



## rona

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30112-7/fulltext

They are quite expensive I believe


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30112-7/fulltext
> 
> They are quite expensive I believe


That would explain it, if they are talking about millions being done.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> Yes I've been following this elsewhere. The main worry is that it's only been recently recognised and no one knows yet if there are say any long term issues or if after the mild illness does it come back again in a more serious way. That's mainly why there is a flap on


I think alot of the flapping is due to the inability to cope of the NHS. Most hospitals (esp in urban areas) have a very low tipping point before getting overwhelmed...they have already been running at levels that are unsafe. You need to have a certain amount of empty beds at all times to cope with seasonal issues or surprise pandemics but alot of places were already running close to capacity from the start.
The lack of concern about the state of the NHS has bugged me for years though....its the same with the environment, too many people ignoring the writing on the wall then throwing out surprised Pikachu faces when it all goes horribly wrong!



Happy Paws2 said:


> I been wondering for sometime if the very bad cough, bad breathing, high temperature and felt is if I was dying over the Christmas 2019 was Covid and not Flu but at the time I'd never heard of Covid.


That does sound suspicious doesnt it? Esp the breathing problems as I dont thinks thats normally associated with flu.



daveos said:


> It was a very heavy cold hell of a lot of sneezing that was tiring a very runny nose just like a tap non stop and before it came out as a cold I had a really scratchy sore throat that was the worst for me but all symptoms had gone by 5/6 days I recall.
> Now those symptoms are listed as possible for Omicron.


I think 'original flavour' covid didnt give you a runny nose though so probably just a cold!
Flu sucks though. TBH Im not sure if Ive ever had it or not!:Shy I was really unwell once when younger and slept most of it off (I fell asleep and woke up 23 hrs later!!:Wideyed). Felt bad for a couple of days and then fine....but my poor family all caught 'something' afterwards and were really bad for weeks afterwards. I did feel kinda guilty for that one!LOL


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> I think alot of the flapping is due to the inability to cope of the NHS. Most hospitals (esp in urban areas) have a very low tipping point before getting overwhelmed...they have already been running at levels that are unsafe. You need to have a certain amount of empty beds at all times to cope with seasonal issues or surprise pandemics but alot of places were already running close to capacity from the start.
> The lack of concern about the state of the NHS has bugged me for years though....its the same with the environment, too many people ignoring the writing on the wall then throwing out surprised Pikachu faces when it all goes horribly wrong!
> 
> That does sound suspicious doesnt it? Esp the breathing problems as I dont thinks thats normally associated with flu.
> 
> I think 'original flavour' covid didnt give you a runny nose though so probably just a cold!
> Flu sucks though. TBH Im not sure if Ive ever had it or not!:Shy I was really unwell once when younger and slept most of it off (I fell asleep and woke up 23 hrs later!!:Wideyed). Felt bad for a couple of days and then fine....but my poor family all caught 'something' afterwards and were really bad for weeks afterwards. I did feel kinda guilty for that one!LOL


Certainly the hospital I've been in is full, took me 24 hours to get a bed on the wards, the lady in the next bed had a similar wait the next day on a wheelchair in a&e. So far whenever a bed had emptied on the 4 bed bay, it's filled with someone pretty quickly.
ICU is all unvaccinated Covid patients bar 2 who are in there for other reasons.


----------



## MilleD

Wise words from Chris Whitty in the press conference this evening.

Avoid the things that aren't important so you don't miss the things that are.

It's all about making the right choices now.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Wise words from Chris Whitty in the press conference this evening.
> 
> Avoid the things that aren't important so you don't miss the things that are.
> 
> It's all about making the right choices now.


My eldest son decided to skip his Christmas works meal... He would rather spend time with close friends and family over Christmas and New Year.

Youngest son says he might do the same, again thinking he would rather spend time with family

I do think both are a minority though and hope more listen to Chris Witty


----------



## MollySmith

If there are any football fans, your weekend match may have spot checks for double vaccines via NHS App or pass letter from 119. Do check your football club website, our local team put out a PR today for Saturday game which doesn’t help anyone who needs to get the letter and aren’t online or have smartphone as the pass letter takes up to 8 days to arrive (dare not mention to OH).

This is on advice of Public Health England.


----------



## lullabydream

MollySmith said:


> If there are any football fans, your weekend match may have spot checks for double vaccines via NHS App or pass letter from 119. Do check your football club website, our local team put out a PR today for Saturday game which doesn't help anyone who needs to get the letter and aren't online or have smartphone as the pass letter takes up to 8 days to arrive (dare not mention to OH).
> 
> This is on advice of Public Health England.


Do you know if all players have to be vaccinated to play now...few months back not all were and there were mixed feelings about that, from what I saw in more a passing. Not really a football fan, well in my house women's football rules!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Certainly the hospital I've been in is full, took me 24 hours to get a bed on the wards, the lady in the next bed had a similar wait the next day on a wheelchair in a&e. So far whenever a bed had emptied on the 4 bed bay, it's filled with someone pretty quickly.
> ICU is all unvaccinated Covid patients bar 2 who are in there for other reasons.


And then there are the poor overworked medics who are expected to just carry on by those who can't see what all the fuss is about over this new variant.

They aren't machines that can just be recharged overnight.


----------



## MollySmith

lullabydream said:


> Do you know if all players have to be vaccinated to play now...few months back not all were and there were mixed feelings about that, from what I saw in more a passing. Not really a football fan, well in my house women's football rules!


I don't know. But yes, appreciate your mixed feelings. One would assume the rules of double vaccine proof apply on and off the pitch but I have reservations about the pass anyway (not the vaccine).


----------



## MollySmith

Lots of pubs here are all over social media offering takeaway food and/or closing from weekend until NY. I feel sorry for them, it’s a peak time but they’re going to get cancellations so takeout if they can at least keeps them in business of some form. So many small businesses are affected, if you can and fancy a treat maybe look to see what’s going on near you? Especially the free houses.


----------



## Magyarmum

lullabydream said:


> My eldest son decided to skip his Christmas works meal... He would rather spend time with close friends and family over Christmas and New Year.
> 
> Youngest son says he might do the same, again thinking he would rather spend time with family
> 
> I do think both are a minority though and hope more listen to Chris Witty


My son is convinced everything is going to get much much worse. He and my DIL have stocked up their catamaran with food and are going to isolate for as long as necessary in the middle of the Helford Estuary. Anyone who wants to visit them will either have to row or swim out to see them.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> I don't know. But yes, appreciate your mixed feelings. One would assume the rules of double vaccine proof apply on and off the pitch but I have reservations about the pass anyway (not the vaccine).


Why reservations?


----------



## rona

MilleD said:


> Why reservations?


Oh don't ..............................


----------



## Lurcherlad

I posted this in the Political thread, but it's relevant here too probably …



Lurcherlad said:


> According to the BBC news App, it seems that Omicron is creating it's own shut down …. workers are going down like flies apparently, and some companies are struggling to function fully.
> 
> My DS works in The City of London in a stockbrokers and several colleagues have gone down with it and tested positive … he and his other colleagues have resorted back to working from home (thus avoiding public transport too) for the foreseeable future (despite the boss's directive of being in the office).
> 
> I'm pretty sure though that his company have not been following strict practices within the building for some time now.
> 
> On the other hand, OH's company have been very strict (including daily testing at the door), sanitising etc. and OH is the third to contract a cold there …. and he's given it to me
> 
> All their testing (and my own 3 tests at home) have all shown negative for Covid.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just seen this..

The Queen has cancelled her traditional pre-Christmas family lunch as a precautionary measure following the UK's surge in Omicron cases.

A source said it was felt the annual event could put too many people's Christmas plans at risk.


----------



## catz4m8z

I can see why alot of people are going to be preemptively isolating so they can still go ahead with their christmas plans. It is def another nail in the coffin of the hospitality industry though.


(wont make any difference to me...I can self isolate like a mofo from now til next year and it will still be a regular' run of the mill December!!:Shy:Hilarious).


----------



## Calvine

Travel to France from UK banned from this Saturday - despite France already having about the same number of cases as we have. French skiing tourism expects to be badly hit.


----------



## Lurcherlad

catz4m8z said:


> I can see why alot of people are going to be preemptively isolating so they can still go ahead with their christmas plans. It is def another nail in the coffin of the hospitality industry though.
> 
> (wont make any difference to me...I can self isolate like a mofo from now til next year and it will still be a regular' run of the mill December!!:Shy:Hilarious).


We're doing the opposite next week.

OH has a meal out in London with work and we have booked a posh hotel for the night so he doesn't have to travel home late at night.

We will stick to our room at the hotel (I'm taking my own feast and drinks to enjoy while he's out) and wear masks indoors in public areas, etc.

The following day we plan an outing to the London Imperial War Museum (which OH has wanted to visit for yonks), taking precautions as usual.

We don't want to cancel unless forced to.

I'd rather do that and avoid the in-laws at Xmas!


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Travel to France from UK banned from this Saturday - despite France already having about the same number of cases as we have. French skiing tourism expects to be badly hit.


I was supposed to be dog sitting for a week from Monday, but that's put the mockers on their holiday...................I'm so pleased  

Can spend the time in my new home now


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I love the Queen, I do. Setting a good example yet again  

We have been told that we shouldn't be going out. I wasn't in on Monday when our direct line manager said it but people are livid - and I think rightly so. We had already had a message from the hospital Chief Exec urging caution but our manager is hacked off that we have people dropping like flies, so she has responded in this manner. Not sure what will happen to be honest, as we are a small department but because we are out-patient, we get forgotten about, so if we suddenly don't have enough staff to run it even minimally, we could be in a pickle. 

The rebellious bit of me wants to go out and party now I've been told not to. It's the being treated like a child that does it - I wasn't planning on doing anything at all apart from parkrun on Christmas Day morning.


----------



## Cleo38

Mrs Funkin said:


> I love the Queen, I do. Setting a good example yet again
> 
> We have been told that we shouldn't be going out. I wasn't in on Monday when our direct line manager said it but people are livid - and I think rightly so. We had already had a message from the hospital Chief Exec urging caution but our manager is hacked off that we have people dropping like flies, so she has responded in this manner. Not sure what will happen to be honest, as we are a small department but because we are out-patient, we get forgotten about, so if we suddenly don't have enough staff to run it even minimally, we could be in a pickle.
> 
> The rebellious bit of me wants to go out and party now I've been told not to. It's the being treated like a child that does it - I wasn't planning on doing anything at all apart from parkrun on Christmas Day morning.


Surely your manager can't enforce that. It really should be up to individuals to risk assess accordingly. Hope it doesn't get too bad for you all


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm actually pretty hacked off about it - I'm glad I've not seen her to be honest. I'm already gobby at work (never! Me?! Ha!) but this could get me in trouble


----------



## Cleo38

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm actually pretty hacked off about it - I'm glad I've not seen her to be honest. I'm already gobby at work (never! Me?! Ha!) but this could get me in trouble


I think she has a cheek tbh & agree that it's treating you like children. Am the same, as soon as I'm told not to do something then I want to do it ... & am also quite gobby at work!


----------



## catz4m8z

Mrs Funkin said:


> We have been told that we shouldn't be going out. I wasn't in on Monday when our direct line manager said it but people are livid - and I think rightly so. We had already had a message from the hospital Chief Exec urging caution.


Pretty sure my manager was probably off their face the other night partying with the rest of the ward staff at the xmas do!! They are all going to be kicking themselves if they get covid and the patients wind up having to run the ward!! 
I never go to those types of things anyways but Im really not sure it was a good idea to plan one for this year TBH.

Just making myself laugh looking at YT comments on government guidelines. They are basically telling people to take sensible precautions, use maks, social distancing, outside events where poss and decide what events are most important to you and pick those. Comment section is full of people screaming about their rights, refusing to do what the government says coz 'conspiracy' and 'hooman rites' etc.
I suppose it serves them right for asking people to use common sense....
'how dare you tell me to use common sense!!unch I refuse to become one of the sheeple!! :Rageno common sense here, no siree!!':Smug
:Hilarious


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> Just making myself laugh looking at YT comments on government guidelines. They are basically telling people to take sensible precautions, use maks, social distancing, outside events where poss and decide what events are most important to you and pick those. Comment section is full of people screaming about their rights, refusing to do what the government says coz 'conspiracy' and 'hooman rites' etc.
> I suppose it serves them right for asking people to use common sense....
> 'how dare you tell me to use common sense!!unch I refuse to become one of the sheeple!! :Rageno common sense here, no siree!!':Smug
> :Hilarious


Or maybe people are sick of being dictated to by a bunch of @rseholes who don't seem to stick to the rules that the rest of us are supposed to


----------



## catz4m8z

Cleo38 said:


> Or maybe people are sick of being dictated to by a bunch of @rseholes who don't seem to stick to the rules that the rest of us are supposed


idk...TBH even if Voldemort or Darth Vadar told me to use my common sense I would still do it! Arguing againest that kind of advice is just counterproductive to a long life, surely??


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> idk...TBH even if Voldemort or Darth Vadar told me to use my common sense I would still do it! Arguing againest that kind of advice is just counterproductive to a long life, surely??


Is it? Why? And why is a long life better? Surely a fulfilled life is better

My mum's best friend is 83 & has always carried on with her life throughout the pandemic. She may have many years left but then she may not, so why would she risk spending time sat at home not seeing friends or getting the most out of life?


----------



## Blackadder

Cleo38 said:


> Is it? Why? And why is a long life better? Surely a fulfilled life is better


I remember reading this some time ago...

Life is about living, not just avoiding death!


----------



## mrs phas

Cleo38 said:


> Is it? Why? And why is a long life better? Surely a fulfilled life is better


And why can't you have both?
Plus
What is viewed as a long life when your in your 20s, is very different to what is viewed as a long life in your 80s

I told my boys I'm going to live at least til I'm 106, that way they get a chance to find out what changing constant nappies, spoon feeding someone who doesn't want what's offered, and have me waking them up every two hours is like
Their answer (smart Alec's that they are)
We've already chosen your home mum!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> Is it? Why? And why is a long life better? Surely a fulfilled life is better
> 
> My mum's best friend is 83 & has always carried on with her life throughout the pandemic. She may have many years left but then she may not, so why would she risk spending time sat at home not seeing friends or getting the most out of life?


I understand wanting to carry on with life but when you do have health problems you think in a different way,

My breathing isn't the best at anytime and the thought of going out and risking a slow death on a ventilator fills me with horror, I'm happy sitting at home and only going out if I have to.


----------



## Cleo38

Happy Paws2 said:


> I understand wanting to carry on with life but when you do have health problems you think in a different way,
> 
> My breathing isn't the best at anytime and the thought of going out and risking a slow death on a ventilator fills me with horror, I'm happy sitting at home and only going out if I have to.


Am sorry you have health problems but glad you are happy with your life. It does demonstrate that we are all different. My mum's friend had a massive heart attack a while ago then a stroke. She has battled through these (unbelievably) & still wants to get out & about. She has always been very active & this is her choice of living her life as she sees best & being happy.


----------



## MilleD

rona said:


> Oh don't ..............................


Don't worry, my question got ignored anyway.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I understand wanting to carry on with life but when you do have health problems you think in a different way,
> 
> My breathing isn't the best at anytime and the thought of going out and risking a slow death on a ventilator fills me with horror, I'm happy sitting at home and only going out if I have to.


But then you've got your lovely hubby at home with you


----------



## lorilu

Cleo38 said:


> Is it? Why? And why is a long life better? Surely a fulfilled life is better
> 
> My mum's best friend is 83 & has always carried on with her life throughout the pandemic. She may have many years left but then she may not, *so why would she risk spending time sat at home *not seeing friends or getting the most out of life?


Well for some, staying home might feel like getting the most out of life. I would certainly prefer to be home. I loved lockdown. It was wonderful.


----------



## lorilu

Had my booster today. The other two shots I came straight home and rested. I thought I'd be optimistic this time and go back to work.

I had to be driven home 3 hours later. Wouldn't have been safe for me to drive. Which means someone had to drive me home and someone else had to follow behind to bring her back.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cleo38 said:


> Am sorry you have health problems but glad you are happy with your life. It does demonstrate that we are all different. My mum's friend had a massive heart attack a while ago then a stroke. She has battled through these (unbelievably) & still wants to get out & about. She has always been very active & this is her choice of living her life as she sees best & being happy.


I used to love walking, I walked miles when we first had Dillon then when he was 3 all this happened my problems started, a shadow on my lungs, my kidneys aren't working fully they went down as low as 18% ( the hospital said I was lucky to be a live when they found out) now they are back up to 50% I have a spot on my liver and a heart murmur and I've had 2 strokes, so I do have to be very careful. I'm just thankful I'm still here


----------



## lorilu

Happy Paws2 said:


> I used to love walking, I walked miles when we first had Dillon then when he was 3 all this happened my problems started, a shadow on my lungs, my kidneys aren't working fully they went down as low as 18% ( the hospital said I was lucky to be a live when they found out) now they are back up to 50% I have a spot on my liver and a heart murmur and I've had 2 strokes, so I do have to be very careful. I'm just thankful I'm still here


I have a lot of health issues too and am very careful of myself. Nothing life threatening like yours, but a lot of pain, it makes me feel very poorly if my life is disrupted in any way. Which of course is the way life is. Walking and hiking is my thing as well and I haven't been able to walk much in the past 8 months. I feel very depressed over not being able to just go out and have a hike whenever I want. And of course, not walking, I've gotten fat, which only makes the pain worse.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I heard that Professor Whitty has today been talking about how it's going to take five years to get under control, with the next 18 months being the worst. I don't want to do this for the next five years. I don't mean wearing a mask in supermarkets or at work, that's fine I can do that no problem, but the whole not being able to really see people, do what I'd like to do, go dancing and hug people and not feel like a leper because I've hugged someone. I got cross today because husband's auntie popped round when she had been somewhere on Sunday where several people have had family members diagnosed as Covid positive on Monday. I can only hope she was nowhere near them. 

Heavens above...good job I like my husband  At this rate, it will be only him and work colleagues that I ever see!


----------



## Happy Paws2

lorilu said:


> I have a lot of health issues too and am very careful of myself. Nothing life threatening like yours, but a lot of pain, it makes me feel very poorly if my life is disrupted in any way. Which of course is the way life is. Walking and hiking is my thing as well and I haven't been able to walk much in the past 8 months. I feel very depressed over not being able to just go out and have a hike whenever I want. And of course, not walking, I've gotten fat, which only makes the pain worse.


I'm not in pain like you It's just my legs just don't work very well, so I do how frustrating it is when not been able to walk very far. I'm glad I have a mobility scooter so I can go out if I need to.

And my wight problem


----------



## stuaz

Mrs Funkin said:


> I heard that Professor Whitty has today been talking about how it's going to take five years to get under control, with the next 18 months being the worst. I don't want to do this for the next five years. I don't mean wearing a mask in supermarkets or at work, that's fine I can do that no problem, but the whole not being able to really see people, do what I'd like to do, go dancing and hug people and not feel like a leper because I've hugged someone. I got cross today because husband's auntie popped round when she had been somewhere on Sunday where several people have had family members diagnosed as Covid positive on Monday. I can only hope she was nowhere near them.
> 
> Heavens above...good job I like my husband  At this rate, it will be only him and work colleagues that I ever see!


To be honest having restrictions long term isn't really sustainable in the long run. The country *needs* people going out, seeing people, visiting places, spending money, going dancing, etc.

As a country we can't forever "put things on the credit card" and need the income and we need to have faith in the vaccines and make sure other less well off countries are also maintaining a good vaccine program.


----------



## £54etgfb6

lorilu said:


> Well for some, staying home might feel like getting the most out of life. I would certainly prefer to be home. I loved lockdown. It was wonderful.


I feel like we are the minority (or maybe the quiet majority? who knows) but I also very much liked lockdown primarily because I had an excuse not to see anyone! My boyfriend and I were separated for 8 months which wasn't so great for my mental health but I didn't have to see friends or family which was relaxing! I am at peace when I am alone    I got to focus on my therapy without the stress of daily human interaction.


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> And why can't you have both?
> Plus
> What is viewed as a long life when your in your 20s, is very different to what is viewed as a long life in your 80s
> 
> I told my boys I'm going to live at least til I'm 106, that way they get a chance to find out what changing constant nappies, spoon feeding someone who doesn't want what's offered, and have me waking them up every two hours is like
> Their answer (smart Alec's that they are)
> We've already chosen your home mum!


That's the kind of answer I get from my son! I'm 82 but no use pleading old age to him because all I get is that I'm still a capable woman and there's nothing wrong with my brain

I haven't seen my family for nearly 3 years and with the new restrictions have no idea when or if I'll see them next year.

I live on my own with my two Schnauzer boys in a tiny village where I can go for weeks without seeing a soul. Doesn't bother me in the least because I've always been a solitary person. The main difference the pandemic has made to my life is that I do my grocery shopping in my local town rather than in one of the larger city hypermarkets. None of the supermarkets deliver groceries because we're too remote. The boys and I still go to the city once a week for training, but we use it as an opportunity to also play tourists and have seen some interesting parts of the city I never knew existed.

I bought myself a new (to me) car three months ago with the idea that when the weather gets better the dogs and I can explore the countryside in more comfort than I could do in my old one, so loads of outings and picnics are planned. For the first time in 30 years I've taken up knitting and am now making mainly baby clothes for charity - and thoroughly enjoying it. I also have invested in jigsaw puzzles and loads of books to keep me occupied during the long winter days.

Then of course there are always the Schnauzer boys who are wonderful company. All in all most of the time I'm too busy to worry about Covid and lockdowns.


----------



## MilleD

bmr10 said:


> I feel like we are the minority (or maybe the quiet majority? who knows) but I also very much liked lockdown primarily because I had an excuse not to see anyone! My boyfriend and I were separated for 8 months which wasn't so great for my mental health but I didn't have to see friends or family which was relaxing! I am at peace when I am alone    I got to focus on my therapy without the stress of daily human interaction.


I was told to shield and I detested it.

Good job we are all different i guess.

One good thing was I didn't have anyone pestering me to go abroad on holiday as I hate flying


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I love the Queen, I do. Setting a good example yet again
> 
> We have been told that we shouldn't be going out. I wasn't in on Monday when our direct line manager said it but people are livid - and I think rightly so. We had already had a message from the hospital Chief Exec urging caution but our manager is hacked off that we have people dropping like flies, so she has responded in this manner. Not sure what will happen to be honest, as we are a small department but because we are out-patient, we get forgotten about, so if we suddenly don't have enough staff to run it even minimally, we could be in a pickle.
> 
> The rebellious bit of me wants to go out and party now I've been told not to. It's the being treated like a child that does it - I wasn't planning on doing anything at all apart from parkrun on Christmas Day morning.


Why be a rebel when it goes against your common sense just because of what your manager says?
She's telling you not to do things you hadn't planned to do anyway. It's probably a knee jerk reaction from being under pressure not to be held responsible for the department crumbling that's prompted her 'orders'. Ok she may not be flavour of the month but has she actually altered what you were going to do? Or are you hacked off because you now feel you're obeying her, when you're simply doing what you intended anyway .
Tbh, I'd feel annoyed too that she undermined your common sense in how best to spend the Christmas period. 
Just do what _you_ feel comfortable with.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MilleD said:


> I was told to shield and I detested it.
> 
> Good job we are all different i guess.
> 
> One good thing was I didn't have anyone pestering me to go abroad on holiday as I hate flying


I am very introverted and unsociable! My job takes all of my "people energy" out of me. I wish I was someone that went out with friends and family and spoke on the phone to people but I'm honestly not sure how everyone can sustain that- it's so draining!! I also had to shield but I'm slightly embarrassed to say that shielding was the exact same as my regular life 

Although I can't relate to the negative effects isolation had on people I do understand it from watching my sister's reaction to the pandemic. She goes out with friends every day and spends all of her time with someone. When that suddenly had to come to a stop, she had no experience of being alone and she couldn't cope with it. She became restless and depressed and it exacerbated her existing mental health issues. I think she made it perhaps 3 weeks before she met up with her boyfriend? It was horrible to watch her fall apart.


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> I am very introverted and unsociable! My job takes all of my "people energy" out of me. I wish I was someone that went out with friends and family and spoke on the phone to people but I'm honestly not sure how everyone can sustain that- it's so draining!! I also had to shield but I'm slightly embarrassed to say that shielding was the exact same as my regular life
> .


Your not on your own, we are the same we like our own company, OH more than me but I really don't need people around me, staying at home when shielding didn't really both us.


----------



## ForestWomble

bmr10 said:


> I am very introverted and unsociable! My job takes all of my "people energy" out of me. I wish I was someone that went out with friends and family and spoke on the phone to people but I'm honestly not sure how everyone can sustain that- it's so draining!! I also had to shield but I'm slightly embarrassed to say that shielding was the exact same as my regular life
> 
> Although I can't relate to the negative effects isolation had on people I do understand it from watching my sister's reaction to the pandemic. She goes out with friends every day and spends all of her time with someone. When that suddenly had to come to a stop, she had no experience of being alone and she couldn't cope with it. She became restless and depressed and it exacerbated her existing mental health issues. I think she made it perhaps 3 weeks before she met up with her boyfriend? It was horrible to watch her fall apart.





Happy Paws2 said:


> Your not on your own, we are the same we like our own company, OH more than me but I really don't need people around me, staying at home when shielding didn't really both us.


Me too, being around people is exhausting for me, I'm much happier just being me and my pets.
I struggle with anxiety, winter being a difficult time and I was concerned how I'd cope last year, but I found that my mental health was the best its been for a very long time over lockdown. Since things began to open up again this year, that was when my mental health went downhill, I'm struggling far more now than I did this time last year.


----------



## lorilu

bmr10 said:


> I am very introverted and unsociable! My job takes all of my "people energy" out of me. I wish I was someone that went out with friends and family and spoke on the phone to people but I'm honestly not sure how everyone can sustain that- it's so draining!! I also had to shield but I'm slightly embarrassed to say that shielding was the exact same as my regular life
> 
> Although I can't relate to the negative effects isolation had on people I do understand it from watching my sister's reaction to the pandemic. She goes out with friends every day and spends all of her time with someone. When that suddenly had to come to a stop, she had no experience of being alone and she couldn't cope with it. She became restless and depressed and it exacerbated her existing mental health issues. I think she made it perhaps 3 weeks before she met up with her boyfriend? It was horrible to watch her fall apart.


Could have written this post myself except insert "friend" where you said sister. My family are all already recluses haha but I do have a friend who had a terrible time with the isolation. She's always been, since we were 13 years old "What are we going to do next and who are we doing it with". She's still like that.

But me, I'm like you. I am surrounded by people all day at work and it is exhausting. I can't wait to come home and shut the door and have peace, just me and the cats. I have no energy to do anything, like work on house projects, but I hope when I retire and can work only part time, I'll feel more like doing things like that.

Right now I am laid flat by the booster lol. Every time I woke in the night and moved my body I groaned in pain. It wasn't until this morning that it occurred to me to take some Tylenol for crying out loud lol.

So now I feel a little better. Some people had the worse day the third day so there may be more to come for me tomorrow. But I'm glad to have it over.


----------



## MollySmith

During 2020 I wasn't too bad, I have had to do loads of grief work and I feel my toolbox was okay. I already worked from home but had a shared office and I was fine with giving that up. It felt like another thing and we'd get through somehow.

I waver on how I cope _now_ as I'm finding the mental fallout much worse in this hinterland we've been living in for several months now in the UK. My business got busy in lockdowns but with that came so much more online stuff so it got 'noisy' online.

To be truthful, I have no idea how I feel beyond low and just about keeping my brain in order but I honestly don't know long I can do that. I was going back to my shared office as being at home in the bedroom that was meant to be my child's bedroom got to me a little bit but I don't think that's very safe. So I feel safer not going out but it is taking its toll. I'm an introvert in that I get my energy from peace but there's' only so much! Tomorrow I may feel differently.


----------



## O2.0

It's not just preferences of being around people or not. There are people who truly need that human connection and aren't getting it.
During the first lockdown when schools closed here, we had students who didn't have a safe place to go without school. Special needs students who's parents simply can't (or won't) give them the type of care they need stuck at home, left to rot. Care home residents left without family and friends to visit them. Often with dementia and other conditions that makes it all the more confusing and scary. 

It's not just "oh I can't go out with friends." There is a real human toll here that I think a lot of people aren't fully comprehending.


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> I remember reading this some time ago...
> 
> Life is about living, not just avoiding death!


I see your point but if you do actually face the possibility of death , you might not feel it's best option.


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> It's not just preferences of being around people or not. There are people who truly need that human connection and aren't getting it.
> During the first lockdown when schools closed here, we had students who didn't have a safe place to go without school. Special needs students who's parents simply can't (or won't) give them the type of care they need stuck at home, left to rot. Care home residents left without family and friends to visit them. Often with dementia and other conditions that makes it all the more confusing and scary.
> 
> It's not just "oh I can't go out with friends." There is a real human toll here that I think a lot of people aren't fully comprehending.


On the podcast I co-present, the episode that's consistently the highest download was one we made in July 2020 on being single, alone and childless not by choice in a pandemic. Stories from our guests in this haven't left me and probably never will.


----------



## Blackadder

kimthecat said:


> I see your point but if you do actually face the possibility of death , you might not feel it's best option.


Each & everyone of us face that possibility everyday! (with or without covid)


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> Each & everyone of us face that possibility everyday! (with or without covid)


 I dont think we do face it in the sense that we go out thinking I might get run over every time we cross a zebra crossing. or die in a car crash.
Your not actually facing it , its not staring you in the face.
I mean in circumstances where you have an illness for example that you could die from .

I suppose it depends on what you think is a full life. Going down the pub isn't my idea of that but we are all different .

You dont have to have a full life to be happy. There are people who have busy lives and yet they are unhappy. perhaps the secret to life is being adaptable to your circumstances.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Cully said:


> Why be a rebel when it goes against your common sense just because of what your manager says?
> She's telling you not to do things you hadn't planned to do anyway. It's probably a knee jerk reaction from being under pressure not to be held responsible for the department crumbling that's prompted her 'orders'. Ok she may not be flavour of the month but has she actually altered what you were going to do? Or are you hacked off because you now feel you're obeying her, when you're simply doing what you intended anyway .
> Tbh, I'd feel annoyed too that she undermined your common sense in how best to spend the Christmas period.
> Just do what _you_ feel comfortable with.


Of course I won't rebel! I will be home like a Good Girl and the only thing I will do all festive season is parkrun on Christmas Day. We have tickets to the Panto on Thursday night, not sure yet whether we will go.

I'm just hacked off at being told what to do I think. Pppfftttt. The vast majority in my department have been nothing but sensible since March 2020.


----------



## Happy Paws2

As I've said before I'm not going out. I have to go for a blood test sometime in January and OH has a appointment at the surgery the Wednesday after Christmas and is just going there and straight back home....

I've got this far I'm not risking anything now,


----------



## pinklizzy

I sometimes have days where I just want to live life and get on with it but when it actually comes to, I just feel that I can't without spending sleepless nights worrying about all the possible ramifications! Covid has definitely given me awful insomnia.
I didn't go to the work Christmas party and have cancelled plans we had for meeting up with friends or generally just going out except for work until after Christmas.
I still need to food shop but dreading being in lots of crowds as it gets closer.


----------



## Happy Paws2

pinklizzy said:


> I still need to food shop but dreading being in lots of crowds as it gets closer.


We are still lucky, we are still on Sainsbury's vulnerable list so we get our shopping delivered to us. I'd hate to be in a crowded shop. I was planning on going out when they open at 6am next week just to have look round for some extra treats but I've changed mind I'm staying in.


----------



## Cully

I've got an MRI scan booked for early January but I'm seriously considering giving it a miss. The hospital doesn't have a particularly reassuring record regarding covid so I'm really worried.
I'll check what's happening with Omicron nearer the time.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Cully said:


> I've got an MRI scan booked for early January but I'm seriously considering giving it a miss. The hospital doesn't have a particularly reassuring record regarding covid so I'm really worried.
> I'll check what's happening with Omicron nearer the time.


If your MRI is in a truck in the car park, as they often are, please do consider going as there will only be you and the operator usually. If it's in main radiology, ask how many are in the waiting area and if Covid patients are coming for CT scans nearby.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> It's not just preferences of being around people or not. There are people who truly need that human connection and aren't getting it.
> During the first lockdown when schools closed here, we had students who didn't have a safe place to go without school. Special needs students who's parents simply can't (or won't) give them the type of care they need stuck at home, left to rot. Care home residents left without family and friends to visit them. Often with dementia and other conditions that makes it all the more confusing and scary.
> 
> It's not just "oh I can't go out with friends." There is a real human toll here that I think a lot of people aren't fully comprehending.


And I think this has really highlighted how much social interaction most people need. It's not just as simple as just "going to the pub" (for example) but interacting with people; talking, sharing stories, empathising, giving advice. listening, consoling & laughing.

I think laughing is so important & does wonders for us. Luckily I have my knob head dogs who always make me laugh. During my darkest times after losing my mum Roxy & Archer were amazing.


----------



## Blackadder

I apologise if this isn't appropriate for the thread but I found it a bit of light relief & it is covid related...sort of


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> If your MRI is in a truck in the car park, as they often are, please do consider going as there will only be you and the operator usually. If it's in main radiology, ask how many are in the waiting area and if Covid patients are coming for CT scans nearby.


Thank you. It's quite a big hospital with it's own scanner. I've been before and the department is behind A&E or through main reception. But whichever way you go it's a long walk with the potential for covid exposure. William Harvey is well known for it's long exhausting corridors! 
It's the travel too. I very much doubt I'll be entitled to hospital transport as I used to be as they've changed the rules now. I certainly can't use public transport. My only real option is a taxi and I'm not happy about the journey time with a stranger in a confined car.
It might be better to delay the scan until later.


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> Although I can't relate to the negative effects isolation had on people


A friend of mine lives in Glasgow, miles from her family and friends - family Midlands, friends London, mainly. To the best of my recollection, she never got on that well with her sister, never really had much favourable to say about her, but about two months ago it became desperate that she must visit her sister - it was like a quest for the Holy Grail, all she spoke about. The minute she got there I started to receive WhatsApps from her saying how she had forgotten how dreadful her sister was, how she couldn't cook a decent meal, how the place was so cold that she had to sleep in her coat (on a sofa, at that, which was too small for her). She apparently will never go there again as long as she lives. I do think in many cases - not always - it's a case of wanting what you can't have. She was never desperate to see her sister until she was told that she couldn't, then it became a matter of urgency.
ETA Sister cooked toad in the hole and the sausage was raw (ish).


----------



## kimthecat

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59710649

The Mayor of London has declared a "major incident" due to the rapid spread of the Omicron coronavirus variant in the capital.*

Sadiq Khan said Omicron was now the "dominant variant" in London and was having an impact on staff absences in the emergency services across the city.

He said London was the UK region with the largest number of Covid cases.

Latest government data shows there are 1,534 Covid patients in London hospitals - up 28.6% on last week.

Mr Khan said in the last 24 hours, London had seen the largest number of new cases since the coronavirus pandemic began - more than 26,000.

He added: "Hospital admissions are going up, but also staff absences are going up by a massive level.

"So I've taken the decision in consultation with our partners to declare a major incident today."


----------



## Mrs Funkin

We received the email from the Senior Management team at the hospital yesterday:

Dear colleagues,

We have all seen from the news and in the messaging from England's Chief Medical Officer that the Omicron variant is continuing to spread at an increasing rate and all the evidence we have suggests this new variant is much more infectious, even if you are vaccinated.

Therefore, we all need to think very carefully before mixing with others tonight and in the coming days. Anyone who contracts Covid will have to self-isolate for 10 days, including on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

Large gatherings, such as Christmas parties, potentially pose a significant risk to our staff, their families, and ultimately may even impact on our ability to deliver patient services safely.

The prevalence and highly infectious nature of the Omicron variant means that if one member of the team develops symptoms or tests positive, all their colleagues may have to self-isolate until they receive a negative PCR result.

Yesterday, in the All Staff Briefing we talked about the risks and also sensible steps to take if ultimately you do decide to attend social events, and we know that some teams have already taken the difficult decision to postpone events.

*We are therefore asking that everyone thinks carefully before continuing to hold or attending any gatherings in the coming days. *

If you are meeting with others, please be extremely cautious and follow this guidance:


Do not go if you are feeling unwell or a household member is unwell
Take a lateral flow test on the day you plan to go out - only go out if you get negative result
Take another LFT one to two days after the event to check you are still negative
Limit the number of people you interact with
Wear a mask, do not share food and drink and keep a safe distance from others
Try to stay in well ventilated spaces and avoid crowding into smaller areas

It is important we all find some time to rest and recuperate, as well as see loved ones over Christmas, but please remain extra vigilant and reduce your risk of catching Covid as much as possible.

Many thanks,

----------------

I'm onboard with the sentiment of it, really I am, and I shall not be doing anything. However, the fact that we are being asked not to do things so that we are in a fit state to still provide a service for people who clearly are going to go mingling no matter what really REALLY is grating on my last nerve. Perhaps I should not feel this way but I do.

URGH!


----------



## kimthecat

Mrs Funkin said:


> W
> I'm onboard with the sentiment of it, really I am, and I shall not be doing anything. However, the fact that we are being asked not to do things so that we are in a fit state to still provide a service for people who clearly are going to go mingling no matter what really REALLY is grating on my last nerve. Perhaps I should not feel this way but I do.
> 
> URGH!


On behalf of those who have been to hospital and have regular visits during Covid, I'd like to thank you for being there and all the hospital staff too. 
I really appreciate it .


----------



## SbanR

Can fully sympathise with your feelings @Mrs Funkin . Xx


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> Thank you. It's quite a big hospital with it's own scanner. I've been before and the department is behind A&E or through main reception. But whichever way you go it's a long walk with the potential for covid exposure. William Harvey is well known for it's long exhausting corridors!
> It's the travel too. I very much doubt I'll be entitled to hospital transport as I used to be as they've changed the rules now. I certainly can't use public transport. My only real option is a taxi and I'm not happy about the journey time with a stranger in a confined car.
> It might be better to delay the scan until later.


Its a difficult decision to make.  One problem might be is that you dont know how long you will have to wait for another appointment. It could be weeks or months. Do you think it would be safe to wait that long.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> We received the email from the Senior Management team at the hospital yesterday:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> We have all seen from the news and in the messaging from England's Chief Medical Officer that the Omicron variant is continuing to spread at an increasing rate and all the evidence we have suggests this new variant is much more infectious, even if you are vaccinated.
> 
> Therefore, we all need to think very carefully before mixing with others tonight and in the coming days. Anyone who contracts Covid will have to self-isolate for 10 days, including on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.
> 
> Large gatherings, such as Christmas parties, potentially pose a significant risk to our staff, their families, and ultimately may even impact on our ability to deliver patient services safely.
> 
> The prevalence and highly infectious nature of the Omicron variant means that if one member of the team develops symptoms or tests positive, all their colleagues may have to self-isolate until they receive a negative PCR result.
> 
> Yesterday, in the All Staff Briefing we talked about the risks and also sensible steps to take if ultimately you do decide to attend social events, and we know that some teams have already taken the difficult decision to postpone events.
> 
> *We are therefore asking that everyone thinks carefully before continuing to hold or attending any gatherings in the coming days. *
> 
> If you are meeting with others, please be extremely cautious and follow this guidance:
> 
> 
> Do not go if you are feeling unwell or a household member is unwell
> Take a lateral flow test on the day you plan to go out - only go out if you get negative result
> Take another LFT one to two days after the event to check you are still negative
> Limit the number of people you interact with
> Wear a mask, do not share food and drink and keep a safe distance from others
> Try to stay in well ventilated spaces and avoid crowding into smaller areas
> 
> It is important we all find some time to rest and recuperate, as well as see loved ones over Christmas, but please remain extra vigilant and reduce your risk of catching Covid as much as possible.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> ----------------
> 
> I'm onboard with the sentiment of it, really I am, and I shall not be doing anything. However, the fact that we are being asked not to do things so that we are in a fit state to still provide a service for people who clearly are going to go mingling no matter what really REALLY is grating on my last nerve. Perhaps I should not feel this way but I do.
> 
> URGH!


I'm really torn as to what we should do. I've cancelled my social plans as my sister is coming for Xmas and if I catch Covid she can't.

I get the sentiment that we need to live with Covid but then I watch interviews with hospital staff talking about PTSD and burn out and think we need to do something. I feel so bad for hospital staff.

I'm not suggesting we cancel Christmas but all these huge super spreader events are they sensible? Will people look back at this time and say, 'what we're they thinking?'

It's not just about people dying staff are getting sick and so hospitals are short staffed.

So yes a big thank you @Mrs Funkin to you and colleagues for keep going in these times.


----------



## Siskin

I’m very thankful for the the NHS, it’s kept me going for the last year and a half particularly recently. 

However I’m also very thankful to the surgeon who insisted that my op went ahead and I’m now out of hospital and convalescing at home


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> Its a difficult decision to make.  One problem might be is that you dont know how long you will have to wait for another appointment. It could be weeks or months. Do you think it would be safe to wait that long.


I don't think it's urgent really. I had an ultrasound a few months ago followed by a phone appointment with my new gastroenterologist. She said I wasn't symptomatic of anything but mentioned the gallstones which were detected on a previous ultrasound about 10 years ago. They've never caused me trouble, but she said one was huge, practically filling my gallbladder, so she wanted me to have this MRI to check if any action was necessary on it.
So I don't think it will be a problem to rebook it.
I might try and contact her once new year is over to see what she suggests. I mean, depending on how the nhs is coping it could make sense to risk having the MRI now while it's still possible. Who knows what the situation will be if I leave it.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> We received the email from the Senior Management team at the hospital yesterday:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> We have all seen from the news and in the messaging from England's Chief Medical Officer that the Omicron variant is continuing to spread at an increasing rate and all the evidence we have suggests this new variant is much more infectious, even if you are vaccinated.
> 
> Therefore, we all need to think very carefully before mixing with others tonight and in the coming days. Anyone who contracts Covid will have to self-isolate for 10 days, including on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.
> 
> Large gatherings, such as Christmas parties, potentially pose a significant risk to our staff, their families, and ultimately may even impact on our ability to deliver patient services safely.
> 
> The prevalence and highly infectious nature of the Omicron variant means that if one member of the team develops symptoms or tests positive, all their colleagues may have to self-isolate until they receive a negative PCR result.
> 
> Yesterday, in the All Staff Briefing we talked about the risks and also sensible steps to take if ultimately you do decide to attend social events, and we know that some teams have already taken the difficult decision to postpone events.
> 
> *We are therefore asking that everyone thinks carefully before continuing to hold or attending any gatherings in the coming days. *
> 
> If you are meeting with others, please be extremely cautious and follow this guidance:
> 
> 
> Do not go if you are feeling unwell or a household member is unwell
> Take a lateral flow test on the day you plan to go out - only go out if you get negative result
> Take another LFT one to two days after the event to check you are still negative
> Limit the number of people you interact with
> Wear a mask, do not share food and drink and keep a safe distance from others
> Try to stay in well ventilated spaces and avoid crowding into smaller areas
> 
> It is important we all find some time to rest and recuperate, as well as see loved ones over Christmas, but please remain extra vigilant and reduce your risk of catching Covid as much as possible.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> ----------------
> 
> I'm onboard with the sentiment of it, really I am, and I shall not be doing anything. However, the fact that we are being asked not to do things so that we are in a fit state to still provide a service for people who clearly are going to go mingling no matter what really REALLY is grating on my last nerve. Perhaps I should not feel this way but I do.
> 
> URGH!


I can sympathise with how you feel. Behave so you can care for those who have not. I'm so sorry but I wanted you to know that I appreciate you sharing this, the posts you've made throughout this awfulness that I am sure have made so many of us think and give us an insight into life. Frankly I think all of this advice is what the dammed government need to be telling everyone to do but that's another rant.

Massive hugs


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Thank you everyone for your empathy and understanding and your kind words. I can only hope that some of the things I post resonate with some people. We have had a spectacularly awful week at work this week. I cannot stand that pregnant women are not getting vaccinated. They just won't do it and my heart is breaking with all the sadness they are experiencing - and that potentially it wouldn't have happened if they had had their jabs. Oh I feel ill when I think about it.

I concur @MollySmith - I mean this is essentially what Prof Whitty was saying the other day but got slagged off for it by some in government.

I'll be at home on Christmas Day and no doubt on the forums, if anyone is lonely and wants a chat  Just shout xx


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> I might try and contact her once new year is over to see what she suggests. I mean, depending on how the nhs is coping it could make sense to risk having the MRI now while it's still possible. Who knows what the situation will be if I leave it.


That's a good idea.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Thank you everyone for your empathy and understanding and your kind words. I can only hope that some of the things I post resonate with some people. We have had a spectacularly awful week at work this week. I cannot stand that pregnant women are not getting vaccinated. They just won't do it and my heart is breaking with all the sadness they are experiencing - and that potentially it wouldn't have happened if they had had their jabs. Oh I feel ill when I think about it.
> 
> I concur @MollySmith - I mean this is essentially what Prof Whitty was saying the other day but got slagged off for it by some in government.
> 
> *I'll be at home on Christmas Day and no doubt on the forums, if anyone is lonely and wants a chat  Just shout *xx


Me too I would think, happy to have a natter x


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Me too I would think, happy to have a natter x


me too! The Christmas day telly is rubbish .


----------



## ForestWomble

I'll be here too.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> I cannot stand that pregnant women are not getting vaccinated. They just won't do it and my heart is breaking with all the sadness they are experiencing - and that potentially it wouldn't have happened if they had had their jabs. Oh I feel ill when I think about it.


Unfortunately I think the horror caused by Thalidomide in the 50s and 60s have a lot to do with this.The message that drugs in pregnancy should be avoided was very strong and loud and luckily responsible parents have taken heed. It's very difficult to change minds, even as you say we now have more evidence about the safety of Covid vax in pregnancy. Women were told from several sources that Thalidomide was safe and there have been other drugs given out in pregnancy that had devastating consequences.
My daughter , a midwife herself, was pregnant during the Swine Flu epidemic and advised to be vaccinated, she refused for the reasons above.
It''s a real dilemma isn't it?
The Covid Vaxes have only been in use for around a year, who can say with certainty that they are all 100% safe?


----------



## mrs phas

SusieRainbow said:


> Unfortunately I think the horror caused by Thalidomide in the 50s and 60s have a lot to do with this.The message that drugs in pregnancy should be avoided was very strong and loud and luckily responsible parents have taken heed


Not just thatthere was a huge problem with a rogue whooping cough vaccine in the late 60/ early 70s, causing many children to become mentally impaired
And, of course
Andrew Wakefield and his absolutely criminal postulations around MMR and mercury in vaccines causing Autism, of which there are many around the world that, despite him being struck off, still cling to his lies and won't vaccinate their children 
I swear most would rather follow the lies and conspiracy theories, than vaccinate against killer diseases


----------



## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> Unfortunately I think the horror caused by Thalidomide in the 50s and 60s have a lot to do with this.


Absolutely.
And there was a time not that long ago when women were told that drinking and smoking while pregnant was safe too.

Personally I would have been terrified to get vaccinated while pregnant.
I was hospitalized while pregnant and offered something for anxiety and flat refused it, no assurances would have convinced me to take it. I know not exactly the same thing, but I was not going to endanger my babies for my own 'convenience.'



mrs phas said:


> I swear most would rather follow the lies and conspiracy theories, than vaccinate against killer diseases


It's not always conspiracy theories. Our own FDA doesn't have the most stellar record. Couple that with things like the Tuskegee Syphilis study which was very much real, and very much still in living memory. I don't blame people, particularly from certain demographics for being suspicious of medical assurances that something is safe.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I obviously cannot divulge details and I do of course appreciate that making the choice to vaccinate or not whilst pregnant is incredibly tough, I've had many conversations about it. I just hope that they would look at the stats of what is happening to women and babies and consider those when making their decision.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> I obviously cannot divulge details and I do of course appreciate that making the choice to vaccinate or not whilst pregnant is incredibly tough, I've had many conversations about it. I just hope that they would look at the stats of what is happening to women and babies and consider those when making their decision.


To be fair, I was also terrified to have my preemies vaccinated, but I ended up keeping them on a normal vaccine schedule. 
I'm not saying we shouldn't trust medical professionals, I'm just saying I understand why mothers are frightened and not sure what to do for the best. It's not just ignorance and believing conspiracy theories. I'm sure there is some of that too, but I can see why a reasonable, intelligent person would be hesitant to vaccinate while pregnant.


----------



## Jaf

In Andalucia, Spain. From Monday customers to hospitality must carry a Covid vaccination certificate. Or a covid negative certificate which they pay for. As far as I can gather this means restaurants, bars, hotels, cinemas, sport, concerts. Masks now mandatory outside as well as inside.

The certificate side of it worries me a bit, it wasn't necessary before and it feels like sneaky business somehow. Can't work out what worries me though. On the other hand it will force people to really think about getting vaccinated, which is great. I know of quite a gang of locals that are anti vax, and they worry me for my sake and their own.


----------



## £54etgfb6

SusieRainbow said:


> The Covid Vaxes have only been in use for around a year, who can say with certainty that they are all 100% safe?


While I understand your point, a medicine that has been in licensed use for 30 years cannot be deemed 100% safe. Waiting until something can be said, with certainty, to be safe is a rather futile endeavour. There is always the possibility for the development of a known or currently unknown adverse effect. It is up to the individual to decide when they feel safe to do something.

We can use historical cases as a learning point but if we do not take the time to understand why they happened then we will forever live in fear and avoidance. Birth complications due to new medical treatments are inevitable. Regardless of whether clinical trials included pregnant women or not you cannot catch everything. Regardless of how much preparation and research is done, something always slips through the cracks. It is an unfortunate reality but I think understanding that this is reality is a good thing. Having an overwhelming, all-encompassing fear of drugs during pregnancy due to historical cases is not rational, in my opinion. Understandable, yes, but not rational.

However, I do question at what point does someone draw the line and _why_ have they drawn the line there. Of course it's an individuals choice but it's interesting to me that people will refuse vaccination because of a potential risk to an unborn child but at the same time eat a high fat high carb western diet. One (currently) has no known adverse effects on foetuses whereas the other has strong backing.

As I acknowledged, I understand it is the individuals choice but I do personally believe that a lack of health literacy is part of the reason why vaccines/medications are refused by a lot of mothers. The media's attempts to create medical distrust in the public through cases such as Andrew Wakefield, Thalidomide, primodos, silicone implant ruptures, etc etc is misleading and damaging to society. We now have a large portion of society who distrust medical guidance without a second thought due to these past events. There is no effective, non-biased education in place other than a patient information leaflet (which most patients don't read) and the media are free to sensationalise and manipulate.

In terms of medical guidance, I believe there needs to be education in place to help patients understand that "no other known adverse effects" does not translate to safe. This will prevent the future, inevitable feeling of betrayal when negative effects do unfortunately occur.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Well, OH’s work meal has been cancelled but we shall still go to London and eat at the hotel instead and stay over Monday night, visiting the museum as planned Tuesday.

The hotel have all the protocols in place, including checking temperatures at the door and we are triple vaccinated and will be masking up and sanitising in all public areas.

I had a negative LFT yesterday and OH is doing his today. I think we will probably be at less risk of catching or passing on the virus than those who will be mixing with family at Xmas tbh.

I think London will be pretty quiet.

I’m not being cavalier about it btw, I just think with adequate precautions we can strike a balance.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jaf said:


> In Andalucia, Spain. From Monday customers to hospitality must carry a Covid vaccination certificate. Or a covid negative certificate which they pay for. As far as I can gather this means restaurants, bars, hotels, cinemas, sport, concerts. Masks now mandatory outside as well as inside.
> 
> The certificate side of it worries me a bit, it wasn't necessary before and it feels like sneaky business somehow. Can't work out what worries me though. On the other hand it will force people to really think about getting vaccinated, which is great. I know of quite a gang of locals that are anti vax, and they worry me for my sake and their own.


Covid vaccination cards are mandatory here for entry into locations such as hotels, casinos and anywhere there are gatherings of more than a certain number of people. I received mine a couple of months ago.

Wearing masks inside has been mandatory for over a month now and most people, including me wear them outside when walking through town.

A Hungarian vaccination certificate,


----------



## Lurcherlad

I have my vaccination cards in my purse and the official downloaded version on my phone, which I’ll happily produce if needed to gain entry to places.


----------



## MilleD

@Mrs Funkin I understand what you are saying about hospital staff potentially not having any gatherings and then having to care for those that have, but I think that in actuality,a lot of people aren't doing all the mixing and are trying to keep others safe.

Obviously there will be the people that aren't, aren't, but I think a lot are trying to be sensible.

Just in my small circle- OH has had a gig he was going to be performing at last night cancelled.

My sister and her hubby didn't go to a do last night they'd already paid £100 for.

We were booked in for a black tie dinner on new year's Eve, the venue has cancelled.

Not seen my OH this weekend as he's had a bit of a cough so stayed home. Getting a PCR tomorrow if still has it. Lateral flows negative.

All this so hopefully we can share one day together without risk of infecting others.

What I do think, is that if government then cancel people getting together on Christmas Day, there may be ructions.


----------



## Happy Paws2

One word is starting to driving me mad, in fact I don't have the news on anymore what ever the question the answer is always the same "Booster" and jab in arms is just as bad,:Banghead


----------



## Mrs Funkin

O2.0 said:


> To be fair, I was also terrified to have my preemies vaccinated, but I ended up keeping them on a normal vaccine schedule.
> I'm not saying we shouldn't trust medical professionals, I'm just saying I understand why mothers are frightened and not sure what to do for the best. It's not just ignorance and believing conspiracy theories. I'm sure there is some of that too, but I can see why a reasonable, intelligent person would be hesitant to vaccinate while pregnant.


Disclaimer: some of this is difficult to read and may contain triggers around pregnancy and loss.

I do understand reluctance, I really do - but I'm struggling to see how pregnant women want to take the risk of not vaccinating. The stillbirth rate alone is double in women who have had Covid. 20% of pregnant women with Covid give birth prematurely, 20% of neonates born to mothers with Covid need NNU admission. More than half the patients on ECMO in the last set of published data were unvaccinated pregnant women and no hospitalised pregnant woman had received both vaccination doses. That's just from the data so far in the UK. Data coming from the Netherlands is showing within the stillbirths recorded there, 80% of placentas show major changes, many with inflammatory responses - and that the women are unvaccinated but have Covid ABs. The women are reporting mild or no symptoms of Covid. Data from the States is starting to emerge too, I saw mention of it in the Lancet, so I await that.

I have looked after too many women in my years who have experienced stillbirths. I do not want anyone to increase their risk of this further. My heart breaks at things we are seeing much more frequently and much too often. I am well aware that my personal experience colours my view of vaccinations.

So I really do understand reluctance, truly I do - but I don't want these awful outcomes for women and their families.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh and yes @MilleD I know tonnes of folk are cancelling stuff and being super-cautious. I don't mean everyone is going out Willy nilly without a care in the world, they clearly aren't - but some are and those are the ones that make me ggggrrrrrr. I may well go out - but I will sit and have a mulled wine in someone's garden, wearing my thermals, rather than go indoors. Gotta get your fun somewhere 

ETA: I'm still swinging wildly between, "Stuff it, I'm fed up to the back teeth of doing nothing and going nowhere and now being told I can't by work, so sod it I'm going out and getting drunk and dancing all night" and "oh no! Must stay in, go nowhere, don't get the Dreaded Lurgy, mustn't spread it to people at work"…


----------



## Siskin

I can’t decide whether it will be ok for our daughter and her fiancé to come and stay after Christmas. They live in London which seems to be the epicentre of omicron currently and although they are careful this new version is so infectious that it’s unlikely they will avoid it. They always lateral flow before coming to us, but they are both working and lft’s only show if the infection is a few days along, not if they have just picked up the infection. 
I’m not at all sure how vulnerable I am at the moment, perhaps someone medical could advise. So otherwise healthy person apart from cancer last year with radiotherapy and a recent op during which I lost a lot of blood and required transfusions.

My head says to put them off for a few months, but my heart………


----------



## SusieRainbow

Siskin said:


> I can't decide whether it will be ok for our daughter and her fiancé to come and stay after Christmas. They live in London which seems to be the epicentre of omicron currently and although they are careful this new version is so infectious that it's unlikely they will avoid it. They always lateral flow before coming to us, but they are both working and lft's only show if the infection is a few days along, not if they have just picked up the infection.
> I'm not at all sure how vulnerable I am at the moment, perhaps someone medical could advise. So otherwise healthy person apart from cancer last year with radiotherapy and a recent op during which I lost a lot of blood and required transfusions.
> 
> My head says to put them off for a few months, but my heart………


We have a similar dilemma. 
Our son and family live n Hampshire wher Omicron is rife and spreading rapidly.We plan to visit for a couple of days between Christmas and New year but obviously keeping an open mind. We're longing to see them but is it sensible to take the risk?,


----------



## Blackadder

I don't know if this is any help to either of you but I just watched Gillian Keegan MP (minister for care or something) being interviewed on Sky yesterday.

According to her there are only 10 people in hospital with confirmed omicron, none on ventilators & only one death with omicron (whatever "with" means?)

This could mean that it's far less severe than Delta, as suggested by South Africa, or not, time will tell. I would have thought that as we are 2 weeks into this wave, although probably much longer, we would be seeing hospital admissions gathering pace if it were as bad as Delta but what do I know


----------



## £54etgfb6

Siskin said:


> I'm not at all sure how vulnerable I am at the moment, perhaps someone medical could advise. So otherwise healthy person apart from cancer last year with radiotherapy and a recent op during which I lost a lot of blood and required transfusions.


As you've recently had surgery you're more at risk for post-op complications. This can be further exacerbated by covid but the extent of which is something only a medical professional could advise on. Do you have a contact regarding your surgery/health conditions? They are best placed to advise you.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> Disclaimer: some of this is difficult to read and may contain triggers around pregnancy and loss.
> 
> I do understand reluctance, I really do - but I'm struggling to see how pregnant women want to take the risk of not vaccinating. The stillbirth rate alone is double in women who have had Covid. 20% of pregnant women with Covid give birth prematurely, 20% of neonates born to mothers with Covid need NNU admission. More than half the patients on ECMO in the last set of published data were unvaccinated pregnant women and no hospitalised pregnant woman had received both vaccination doses. That's just from the data so far in the UK. Data coming from the Netherlands is showing within the stillbirths recorded there, 80% of placentas show major changes, many with inflammatory responses - and that the women are unvaccinated but have Covid ABs. The women are reporting mild or no symptoms of Covid. Data from the States is starting to emerge too, I saw mention of it in the Lancet, so I await that.
> 
> I have looked after too many women in my years who have experienced stillbirths. I do not want anyone to increase their risk of this further. My heart breaks at things we are seeing much more frequently and much too often. I am well aware that my personal experience colours my view of vaccinations.
> 
> So I really do understand reluctance, truly I do - but I don't want these awful outcomes for women and their families.


Unfortunately statistics are not enough to change mindsets on their own, as a retired midwife who did much smoking cessation counselling with Antenatal ladies I know this only too well. Statistics are too abstract. I'm an ex smoker too  and it wasn't untl my own brother developed COPD and died at 69 yrs old that I seriously considered stopping smoking which I did 11 years ago. 
Many people consider statistics to be biased and can be made to fit any scenario that suits. That's what we have to overcome. 
During the first lockdown a young pregnant woman was filmed, gaspng for breath, begging women to get vaccinated. ( I believe she did recover) Maybe we should be seeing that clip more frequently and others similar to increase the impact.


----------



## Psygon

Blackadder said:


> I don't know if this is any help to either of you but I just watched Gillian Keegan MP (minister for care or something) being interviewed on Sky yesterday.
> 
> According to her there are only 10 people in hospital with confirmed omicron, none on ventilators & only one death with omicron (whatever "with" means?)
> 
> This could mean that it's far less severe than Delta, as suggested by South Africa, or not, time will tell. I would have thought that as we are 2 weeks into this wave, although probably much longer, we would be seeing hospital admissions gathering pace if it were as bad as Delta but what do I know


Not sure if she had the numbers right. Yesterday the news reported there were 85 people in hospital with Omicron or suspected, which was up from 65 the previous day. Not huge numbers - but more than 10.

But then again maybe it's people that are actually hospitalised because of Omicron, rather than in hospital for something else and then finding they have Omicron?


----------



## rona

We seem to be over supplied with booster vacs here. Local booster site has over 1000 appointments available today, even though they opened up to anyone.
There's a whole lots more tomorrow, the next day and the one after. It's Pfizer, so not going to keep!!


----------



## Blackadder

Psygon said:


> But then again maybe it's people that are actually hospitalised because of Omicron, rather than in hospital for something else and then finding they have Omicron?


I don't think we've ever had an explanation throughout this which is why I asked what does "with" mean? Is it the cause of admission/death or is infection just an incidental finding after?


----------



## MilleD

Blackadder said:


> I don't know if this is any help to either of you but I just watched Gillian Keegan MP (minister for care or something) being interviewed on Sky yesterday.
> 
> According to her there are only 10 people in hospital with confirmed omicron, none on ventilators & only one death with omicron (whatever "with" means?)
> 
> This could mean that it's far less severe than Delta, as suggested by South Africa, or not, time will tell. I would have thought that as we are 2 weeks into this wave, although probably much longer, we would be seeing hospital admissions gathering pace if it were as bad as Delta but what do I know


Sajid javid said 85 this morning.

The "with" still bugs me. You could have been hit by a bus, but if you'd tested positive in the last 28 days is that classed as "with"??


----------



## Blackadder

Just a quick one...
My mother in law is 93 & has come to us for xmas day for years, I asked her last week what she wanted to do this year as obviously she is vulnerable....
She was almost offended saying something like " of course I'm coming, I'm 93 something is going to get me" 
Bless her


----------



## O2.0

bmr10 said:


> While I understand your point, a medicine that has been in licensed use for 30 years cannot be deemed 100% safe. Waiting until something can be said, with certainty, to be safe is a rather futile endeavour. There is always the possibility for the development of a known or currently unknown adverse effect. It is up to the individual to decide when they feel safe to do something.
> 
> We can use historical cases as a learning point but if we do not take the time to understand why they happened then we will forever live in fear and avoidance. Birth complications due to new medical treatments are inevitable. Regardless of whether clinical trials included pregnant women or not you cannot catch everything. Regardless of how much preparation and research is done, something always slips through the cracks. It is an unfortunate reality but I think understanding that this is reality is a good thing. Having an overwhelming, all-encompassing fear of drugs during pregnancy due to historical cases is not rational, in my opinion. Understandable, yes, but not rational.
> 
> However, I do question at what point does someone draw the line and _why_ have they drawn the line there. Of course it's an individuals choice but it's interesting to me that people will refuse vaccination because of a potential risk to an unborn child but at the same time eat a high fat high carb western diet. One (currently) has no known adverse effects on foetuses whereas the other has strong backing.
> 
> As I acknowledged, I understand it is the individuals choice but I do personally believe that a lack of health literacy is part of the reason why vaccines/medications are refused by a lot of mothers. The media's attempts to create medical distrust in the public through cases such as Andrew Wakefield, Thalidomide, primodos, silicone implant ruptures, etc etc is misleading and damaging to society. We now have a large portion of society who distrust medical guidance without a second thought due to these past events. There is no effective, non-biased education in place other than a patient information leaflet (which most patients don't read) and the media are free to sensationalise and manipulate.
> 
> In terms of medical guidance, I believe there needs to be education in place to help patients understand that "no other known adverse effects" does not translate to safe. This will prevent the future, inevitable feeling of betrayal when negative effects do unfortunately occur.


That's all well and good but until it is you personally in the position of making a choice about the life of your child, I say don't judge.
I was warned extensively against co-sleeping with my preterm babies nearly 20 years ago, now it's medically advised for mothers who aren't likely to be impaired to co-sleep as it's better for the babies' development and reduces the risk of SIDS.
I've been warned over the years by medical professionals of the 'dangers' of being vegetarian and vegan, that not eating dairy was bad for my bones. So yes by the way, I watched my diet too while pregnant (and before and after) and haven't eaten a typical western diet ever in my life.

@Mrs Funkin I don't know how it went in the UK but when vaccines were first rolled out here, they made a huge deal out of making sure you weren't pregnant, and please don't get vaccinated if you're pregnant because we don't know the effect on the foetus. Not 4 months later they're saying oh yeah, go ahead and get vaccinated, it's fine, don't worry! So yes, a lot of women were too scared at that point by the first directive to listen to the second one. Most women I know got vaccinated as soon as they could after giving birth. And at this point are going in to another pregnancy fully vaccinated but never had to be vaccinated while pregnant.



Blackadder said:


> I don't know if this is any help to either of you but I just watched Gillian Keegan MP (minister for care or something) being interviewed on Sky yesterday.
> 
> According to her there are only 10 people in hospital with confirmed omicron, none on ventilators & only one death with omicron (whatever "with" means?)
> 
> This could mean that it's far less severe than Delta, as suggested by South Africa, or not, time will tell. I would have thought that as we are 2 weeks into this wave, although probably much longer, we would be seeing hospital admissions gathering pace if it were as bad as Delta but what do I know


I'm getting so fed up with how the media here is dealing with Omicron. Latest headline "Omicron is taking over in Florida" or something like that, yet you read the actual story and it's based on wastewater tested - the omicron variant is the one most found BUT there have been NO clinical cases reported. IOW, people are getting it but it's so mild they're not seeking treatment either at their local doctor's office or in hospital.

The way the media is hyping up omicron, It's almost like they are scared for Covid to go away. Whatever will they report on?


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> One word is starting to driving me mad, in fact I don't have the news on anymore what ever the question the answer is always the same "Booster" and jab in arms is just as bad,:Banghead


 And ''get boosted'' is another that irritates me.
.


----------



## Calvine

O2.0 said:


> 's almost like they are scared for Covid to go away.


 Yes, that exact thought occurs to me too - the virus has kind of created a lot of minor celebrities too; names you had never heard of before last year, and the same mugshots offering predictions of of doom and despair. Chris Whitty (as clever as I am sure he is) has exactly the right face for relaying bad news; I can't help wondering if it changes at all when he is happy.


----------



## £54etgfb6

O2.0 said:


> That's all well and good but until it is you personally in the position of making a choice about the life of your child, I say don't judge.
> I was warned extensively against co-sleeping with my preterm babies nearly 20 years ago, now it's medically advised for mothers who aren't likely to be impaired to co-sleep as it's better for the babies' development and reduces the risk of SIDS.
> I've been warned over the years by medical professionals of the 'dangers' of being vegetarian and vegan, that not eating dairy was bad for my bones. So yes by the way, I watched my diet too while pregnant (and before and after) and haven't eaten a typical western diet ever in my life.


I don't think you need to have walked in someone's shoes to have an opinion. In my post I did not judge anyone specifically, I said I question their actions but this doesn't equate to making a judgement on their character. If we gate-keep opinions then we're going to have less diverse points of view. People give me advice or their opinions about my relationship with my family all the time. Most of these people, including professionals, have never met my family and so while their perspective is not as rich as my own it is still a less biased, sometimes useful perspective to have.

Similar to my point in my post about the inevitability of previously unknown adverse effects arising, medical advice will always change as we learn more. It may well be that in 5 years time we learn that covid vaccinations during pregnancy had the potential to cause adverse effects to foetuses. Maybe we won't. We are constantly learning and the point I was making was that due to this aspect of science, nothing can ever be deemed "100% safe". It is futile to wait for something to be risk-free. Understanding this will help negate the automatic refusal that some people have in regards to vaccinating their children/vaccinating during pregnancy. Accessibility to the statistics behind medical treatments and encouragement in health literacy will go a long way too. Andrew Wakefield's studies were biased, unethical, and had no scientific backing but because this information was not available to the masses people believed the media which spouted lies.


----------



## simplysardonic

Calvine said:


> And ''get boosted'' is another that irritates me.
> .


Sounds like someone getting ejected from James Bond's car!


----------



## O2.0

bmr10 said:


> I don't think you need to have walked in someone's shoes to have an opinion. In my post I did not judge anyone specifically, I said I question their actions but this doesn't equate to making a judgement on their character. If we gate-keep opinions then we're going to have less diverse points of view. People give me advice or their opinions about my relationship with my family all the time. Most of these people, including professionals, have never met my family and so while their perspective is not as rich as my own it is still a less biased, sometimes useful perspective to have.
> 
> Similar to my point in my post about the inevitability of previously unknown adverse effects arising, medical advice will always change as we learn more. It may well be that in 5 years time we learn that covid vaccinations during pregnancy had the potential to cause adverse effects to foetuses. Maybe we won't. We are constantly learning and the point I was making was that due to this aspect of science, nothing can ever be deemed "100% safe". It is futile to wait for something to be risk-free. Understanding this will help negate the automatic refusal that some people have in regards to vaccinating their children/vaccinating during pregnancy. Accessibility to the statistics behind medical treatments and encouragement in health literacy will go a long way too. Andrew Wakefield's studies were biased, unethical, and had no scientific backing but because this information was not available to the masses people believed the media which spouted lies.


Calm down, I'm not gatekeeping opinions. 
I'm expressing MY opinion and experiences on why some people are hesitant to follow medical/professional advice and you respond with a lecture that frankly, I don't need. You're not telling me anything I don't already know and it feels a lot like teaching your granny to suck eggs - thanks PF for teaching me that colorful expression 

If you read my post, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I'm simply adding to the conversation and trying to offer explanations for why people behave as they do. 
I thing we've lost empathy on so many levels, including not taking a minute to try and understand why people would behave in ways that don't make sense to us. The dismissive attitude that people are just stupid, uninformed, scientifically illiterate, or conspiracy theorists is simply not helpful and it's not going to get more people vaccinated for sure! 
I think there are some stupid, uninformed and scientifically illiterate people out there, but I also thing that there are a lot of thoughtful, intelligent, informed and reflective parents who are struggling with information overload. Did you read what I wrote about here in the US how careful everyone was about making no one who might be pregnant get vaccinated?

You don't change hearts and minds by treating people like idiots and looking down on them. And that's what a lot of the media and 'experts' attitudes feel like.

I've said this before in these conversations. If the goal is to change human behavior (for example get people to vaccinate) then you're going to have to come from a place of seeking to understand what is causing the behavior instead of immediately jumping in to correct. 
If the goal is point scoring, smugness and virtue signaling, then no understanding needed, carry on


----------



## £54etgfb6

O2.0 said:


> Calm down, I'm not gatekeeping opinions.
> I'm expressing MY opinion and experiences on why some people are hesitant to follow medical/professional advice and you respond with a lecture that frankly, I don't need. You're not telling me anything I don't already know and it feels a lot like teaching your granny to suck eggs - thanks PF for teaching me that colorful expression
> 
> If you read my post, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I'm simply adding to the conversation and trying to offer explanations for why people behave as they do.
> I thing we've lost empathy on so many levels, including not taking a minute to try and understand why people would behave in ways that don't make sense to us. The dismissive attitude that people are just stupid, uninformed, scientifically illiterate, or conspiracy theorists is simply not helpful and it's not going to get more people vaccinated for sure!
> I think there are some stupid, uninformed and scientifically illiterate people out there, but I also thing that there are a lot of thoughtful, intelligent, informed and reflective parents who are struggling with information overload. Did you read what I wrote about here in the US how careful everyone was about making no one who might be pregnant get vaccinated?
> 
> You don't change hearts and minds by treating people like idiots and looking down on them. And that's what a lot of the media and 'experts' attitudes feel like.
> 
> I've said this before in these conversations. If the goal is to change human behavior (for example get people to vaccinate) then you're going to have to come from a place of seeking to understand what is causing the behavior instead of immediately jumping in to correct.
> If the goal is point scoring, smugness and virtue signaling, then no understanding needed, carry on


I don't think my post was emotional or akin to a lecture, apologies that you feel it was. I did indeed read your posts (regarding the flip flop in medical advice regarding covid vaccines during pregnancy I assume) and I acknowledged in my own post that I understand people's hesitation but I do not personally find a blanket refusal based on historical cases/waiting for something to be 100% safe rational.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Yes, that exact thought occurs to me too - the virus has kind of created a lot of minor celebrities too; names you had never heard of before last year, and the same mugshots offering predictions of of doom and despair. Chris Whitty (as clever as I am sure he is) has exactly the right face for relaying bad news; I can't help wondering if it changes at all when he is happy.


Chris Whitty, he is smiling on his Wiki page, a bit.

I have discovered that he was previously acting chief scientific adviser; director of research at the Department for International Development; chief scientific adviser to the Department of Health; head of the National Institute for Health Research Education; consultant physician at University College London hospitals; professor of public and international health at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine

With a doctorate in medical science from Oxford; two diplomas, in tropical medicine and hygiene, and economics; three master's degrees, in epidemiology, medical law and business administration. And awarded Companion of the Order of Bath; fellow of the Academy of Medical Science; honorary doctorate for medical work in the community from the University of Plymouth.

Chief medical officer for England and practising NHS consultant physician (appointed to that position before Covid in 2019). Bet this wasn't in the job description.


----------



## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> Calm down, I'm not gatekeeping opinions.
> I'm expressing MY opinion and experiences on why some people are hesitant to follow medical/professional advice and you respond with a lecture that frankly, I don't need. You're not telling me anything I don't already know and it feels a lot like teaching your granny to suck eggs - thanks PF for teaching me that colorful expression
> 
> If you read my post, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I'm simply adding to the conversation and trying to offer explanations for why people behave as they do.
> I thing we've lost empathy on so many levels, including not taking a minute to try and understand why people would behave in ways that don't make sense to us. The dismissive attitude that people are just stupid, uninformed, scientifically illiterate, or conspiracy theorists is simply not helpful and it's not going to get more people vaccinated for sure!
> I think there are some stupid, uninformed and scientifically illiterate people out there, but I also thing that there are a lot of thoughtful, intelligent, informed and reflective parents who are struggling with information overload. Did you read what I wrote about here in the US how careful everyone was about making no one who might be pregnant get vaccinated?
> 
> You don't change hearts and minds by treating people like idiots and looking down on them. And that's what a lot of the media and 'experts' attitudes feel like.
> 
> I've said this before in these conversations. If the goal is to change human behavior (for example get people to vaccinate) then you're going to have to come from a place of seeking to understand what is causing the behavior instead of immediately jumping in to correct.
> If the goal is point scoring, smugness and virtue signaling, then no understanding needed, carry on


This is exactly the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## O2.0

bmr10 said:


> but I do not personally find a blanket refusal based on historical cases/waiting for something to be 100% safe rational.


Good for you.

I'm coming at this from a behavior POV.
The goal is to get more people to get vaccinated right?
Okay, so vaccination is a behavior. Not vaccinating is a behavior. We want to change the behavior of not vaccinating.

Telling people they're not being rational, they're conspiracy theorists, uninformed, and don't understand the science does absolutely nothing to change behavior.
If I'm afraid of spiders and you tell me all the rational reasons not to be, give me lots of information about spiders and explain them in scientific terms, it's not going to make me stop being afraid of spiders. Telling me I'm not being rational isn't going to help either.

However, if you were to take a minute to seek to understand where my fear stems from, and you find out that when I was young I saw my sibling hospitalized with a brown recluse bite, the wound horrified me and I've been left deeply scarred by that experience, now we can have a conversations on a human level treating each other as equals and NOW you stand a chance of influencing my behavior. 
I'm not scared of spiders btw, even after seeing first hand what brown recluses can do, that was just an example. But I do check my shoes before putting them on.

That's what my posts are trying to point out. Take a minute to try and understand why people may not be eager to follow medical 'advice'. 
In my generation it was out mothers who were given thalidomide and later valium, our fathers were given LSD without their knowledge in the army. It was our grandparents who were part of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, it's our contemporaries who are addicted to opiates that started with a legal prescription of oxycodone. There are plenty of valid, reasonable reasons to not trust the medical experts trotted out by the government. We have to acknowledge that if we're going to move forward.


----------



## MollySmith

deleted


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> I'm coming at this from a behavior POV.
> The goal is to get more people to get vaccinated right?
> Okay, so vaccination is a behavior. Not vaccinating is a behavior. We want to change the behavior of not vaccinating.
> 
> Telling people they're not being rational, they're conspiracy theorists, uninformed, and don't understand the science does absolutely nothing to change behavior.
> If I'm afraid of spiders and you tell me all the rational reasons not to be, give me lots of information about spiders and explain them in scientific terms, it's not going to make me stop being afraid of spiders. Telling me I'm not being rational isn't going to help either.
> 
> However, if you were to take a minute to seek to understand where my fear stems from, and you find out that when I was young I saw my sibling hospitalized with a brown recluse bite, the wound horrified me and I've been left deeply scarred by that experience, now we can have a conversations on a human level treating each other as equals and NOW you stand a chance of influencing my behavior.
> I'm not scared of spiders btw, even after seeing first hand what brown recluses can do, that was just an example. But I do check my shoes before putting them on.
> 
> That's what my posts are trying to point out. Take a minute to try and understand why people may not be eager to follow medical 'advice'.
> In my generation it was out mothers who were given thalidomide and later valium, our fathers were given LSD without their knowledge in the army. It was our grandparents who were part of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, it's our contemporaries who are addicted to opiates that started with a legal prescription of oxycodone. There are plenty of valid, reasonable reasons to not trust the medical experts trotted out by the government. We have to acknowledge that if we're going to move forward.


Completely agree I'm really anxious about the vaccines it took a lot to get me in for my second the news I need a booster made my heart sink. I'm not an anti-Vaxer don't believe in conspiracy theory just worried.


----------



## Calvine

Piers Corbyn arrested over video calling for people to 'burn down the offices of MPs' | UK News | Sky News

Brother of the more famous Jeremy who must be very proud of him. What a total knob!


----------



## £54etgfb6

O2.0 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> I'm coming at this from a behavior POV.
> The goal is to get more people to get vaccinated right?
> Okay, so vaccination is a behavior. Not vaccinating is a behavior. We want to change the behavior of not vaccinating.
> 
> Telling people they're not being rational, they're conspiracy theorists, uninformed, and don't understand the science does absolutely nothing to change behavior.
> If I'm afraid of spiders and you tell me all the rational reasons not to be, give me lots of information about spiders and explain them in scientific terms, it's not going to make me stop being afraid of spiders. Telling me I'm not being rational isn't going to help either.
> 
> However, if you were to take a minute to seek to understand where my fear stems from, and you find out that when I was young I saw my sibling hospitalized with a brown recluse bite, the wound horrified me and I've been left deeply scarred by that experience, now we can have a conversations on a human level treating each other as equals and NOW you stand a chance of influencing my behavior.
> I'm not scared of spiders btw, even after seeing first hand what brown recluses can do, that was just an example. But I do check my shoes before putting them on.
> 
> That's what my posts are trying to point out. Take a minute to try and understand why people may not be eager to follow medical 'advice'.
> In my generation it was out mothers who were given thalidomide and later valium, our fathers were given LSD without their knowledge in the army. It was our grandparents who were part of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, it's our contemporaries who are addicted to opiates that started with a legal prescription of oxycodone. There are plenty of valid, reasonable reasons to not trust the medical experts trotted out by the government. We have to acknowledge that if we're going to move forward.


I have my opinion and you have yours. Good for us both that they differ 

My post was not calling anyone anything and certainly in the job I work in I do not call patients irrational for being concerned about their medication (even if it is not a rational concern to me) but I am giving your post the benefit of the doubt and assuming your usage of "you" was collective. If not, then ah well!


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> Brother of the more famous Jeremy


Probably more of a one for the political thread?



Boxer123 said:


> Completely agree I'm really anxious about the vaccines it took a lot to get me in for my second the news I need a booster made my heart sink. I'm not an anti-Vaxer don't believe in conspiracy theory just worried.


I only had my second jab three/four months ago and I'm already getting multiple text messages about booking a booster. I will, but I've made the strategic decision to have it whilst I'm up at family for Christmas - that way I'm not on my own if it sends me sideways.

I think the powers that be are missing a trick by not talking more about how boosters work - I still see an awful lot of people asking why a third dose of the same vaccine would have any more effect that two. I recently found an article that explained it quite nicely to me - basically, every vaccine dose trains your body to better fight the virus by helping it develop better defences and offensive capabilities. I suppose you could liken it to a sports club having pre-season friendlies to get a new team working better.


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> Completely agree I'm really anxious about the vaccines it took a lot to get me in for my second the news I need a booster made my heart sink. I'm not an anti-Vaxer don't believe in conspiracy theory just worried.


I'm not crazy about a booster either TBH
Not because I'm worried about them but because I question why we're pushing so hard for boosters.
If we have that many spare vaccines shouldn't we be sharing them with countries who don't have vaccines?
Why aren't we antibody testing people to see if they even need a booster, we do that for other viruses...


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> Covid vaccination cards are mandatory here for entry into locations such as hotels, casinos and anywhere there are gatherings of more than a certain number of people. I received mine a couple of months ago.
> 
> Wearing masks inside has been mandatory for over a month now and most people, including me wear them outside when walking through town.
> 
> A Hungarian vaccination certificate,


That's posh! I have two bits of card I was given at the time I had the first two vacs and the booster


----------



## Boxer123

Jesthar said:


> Probably more of a one for the political thread?
> 
> I only had my second jab three/four months ago and I'm already getting multiple text messages about booking a booster. I will, but I've made the strategic decision to have it whilst I'm up at family for Christmas - that way I'm not on my own if it sends me sideways.
> 
> I think the powers that be are missing a trick by not talking more about how boosters work - I still see an awful lot of people asking why a third dose of the same vaccine would have any more effect that two. I recently found an article that explained it quite nicely to me - basically, every vaccine dose trains your body to better fight the virus by helping it develop better defences and offensive capabilities. I suppose you could liken it to a sports club having pre-season friendlies to get a new team working better.


I only had my second three months ago so do question the necessity. I will do because of my work. The worst side effects seem to be Moderna from speaking to people good idea to have it done whilst others are around.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> I'm not crazy about a booster either TBH
> Not because I'm worried about them but because I question why we're pushing so hard for boosters.
> If we have that many spare vaccines shouldn't we be sharing them with countries who don't have vaccines?
> Why aren't we antibody testing people to see if they even need a booster, we do that for other viruses...


Exactly morally it seems very wrong. Many countries people haven't even had one. This doesn't help with mutations either.


----------



## kimthecat

bmr10 said:


> I don't think my post was emotional or akin to a lecture, apologies that you feel it was. I did indeed read your posts (regarding the flip flop in medical advice regarding covid vaccines during pregnancy I assume) and I acknowledged in my own post that I understand people's hesitation but I do not personally find a blanket refusal based on historical cases/waiting for something to be 100% safe rational.


I didn't find your post a lecture , It was interesting and I agree with most points you said.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just re-read the first page of this thread. Not far off two years ago. Two years. Flipping heck.


----------



## MilleD

My OH had a PCR test this afternoon so we are now waiting to see if it's positive.

Bloody hope not, otherwise it'll be Lonely This Christmas by Mud for me....


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> My OH had a PCR test this afternoon so we are now waiting to see if it's positive.
> 
> Bloody hope not, otherwise it'll be Lonely This Christmas by Mud for me....


Fingers crossed!
My dad got told by the app he was a close contact and it was 'highly recommended' he get a pcr, as the isolation starts when he was last in contact with that person he would have been fine but then if we'd caught it from my dad our isolation wouldn't have ended till after christmas so I was worried.
As it were it came back negative thankfully.

I know realistically its just a day and we plan to just have two people over but that's two more than last year! When we naturally don't have many visitors but see family around holidays it wouldn't have been great.


----------



## MilleD

Arny said:


> Fingers crossed!
> My dad got told by the app he was a close contact and it was 'highly recommended' he get a pcr, as the isolation starts when he was last in contact with that person he would have been fine but then if we'd caught it from my dad our isolation wouldn't have ended till after christmas so I was worried.
> As it were it came back negative thankfully.
> 
> I know realistically its just a day and we plan to just have two people over but that's two more than last year! When we naturally don't have many visitors but see family around holidays it wouldn't have been great.


He doesn't really know who the contact would have been so we can't trace it back to a day.

Obviously not many options, but still can't be sure.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> I didn't find your post a lecture , It was interesting and I agree with most points you said.


Agree I think both made very interesting points.


----------



## kimthecat

Mrs Funkin said:


> I just re-read the first page of this thread. Not far off two years ago. Two years. Flipping heck.


I know ! When I started off the thread at the time , I was surprised no one else had started one . I never dreamt it would go on for two years .


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Hoping it's a negative for him @MilleD fingers crossed.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> My OH had a PCR test this afternoon so we are now waiting to see if it's positive.
> 
> Bloody hope not, otherwise it'll be Lonely This Christmas by Mud for me....


Fingers crossed for you that it's negative


----------



## kimthecat

My sister and I , our two families met up today outside at a local country park just in case we cant see each other next week.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

@O2.0 In terms of vaccination here for pregnant women, I have a slightly skewed memory of it in the early days as I work with the most complex medically pregnant women, along with two consultants, so they were being advised from the outset to have the vaccination due to underlying medical conditions. In the early days it was very much left to women to read and decide when there was very little info coming out, which I don't think is that helpful - how can you decide based on nothing? At least now we have stats to look at. We actually looked to the States for numbers as the sheer volume of pregnant women in the US being vaccinated was much higher than we had in the UK. The last lot of figures of vaccinated pregnant women in the UK is just under a quarter, so still low numbers from which to collate data. I just want women to make a fully informed decision, based on their own proper research and published statistics.


----------



## O2.0

I thought this was an interesting interview from a scientist in Botswana
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...4sYxeaKTnJQ0D0XCuhXXjl33k6RrciW7c56FMrPUOCUMM


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So many things in that make me sad  Thank you for the link @O2.0 - the lack of worldwide vaccination availability (some of those stats are terrifying), the blame culture towards the scientists. The work around HIV patients and the effects of Covid on immunocompromised patients is frightening, isn't it? The mutations of Covid seen within people without much of an immune system is so scary as many of those are likely unvaccinated - and how will they get vaccinated? We must try not to just "do our own corners" - that is a very powerful statement at the end of the interview.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> So many things in that make me sad  Thank you for the link @O2.0 - the lack of worldwide vaccination availability (some of those stats are terrifying), the blame culture towards the scientists. The work around HIV patients and the effects of Covid on immunocompromised patients is frightening, isn't it? The mutations of Covid seen within people without much of an immune system is so scary as many of those are likely unvaccinated - and how will they get vaccinated? We must try not to just "do our own corners" - that is a very powerful statement at the end of the interview.


I found that really poignant too. I think we're all guilty of doing our own corners to an extent. It's helpful to step outside our own bubble.


----------



## Jobeth

Sadly it's not a surprise that developing countries don't have access to the resources needed to tackle coronavirus. There is now a malaria vaccine for children but medication to prevent/treat it has been available for years. Despite this 409,000 died from malaria in 2019 and 2/3 of those were children under 5. https://www.who.int/teams/global-malaria-programme/reports/world-malaria-report-2020/


----------



## O2.0

Jobeth said:


> Sadly it's not a surprise that developing countries don't have access to the resources needed to tackle coronavirus. There is now a malaria vaccine for children but medication to prevent/treat it has been available for years. Despite this 409,000 died from malaria in 2019 and 2/3 of those were children under 5. https://www.who.int/teams/global-malaria-programme/reports/world-malaria-report-2020/


Yeah, it's not covid. No one cares.

(Hopefully the sarcasm came through!)
It's just frustrating that covid seems to have erased all other concerns.


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> I thought this was an interesting interview from a scientist in Botswana
> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...4sYxeaKTnJQ0D0XCuhXXjl33k6RrciW7c56FMrPUOCUMM


Thank you, that's a powerful read.


----------



## Jaf

It's all getting a bit fraught here (spain). From tomorrow customers need a Covid certificate in bars so a local bar has decided just to close for a couple of weeks off. It's a tiny bar, run more as a local club than a business. The anti vax mob are getting really shouty about human rights.


----------



## kimthecat

Jaf said:


> It's all getting a bit fraught here (spain). From tomorrow customers need a Covid certificate in bars so a local bar has decided just to close for a couple of weeks off. It's a tiny bar, run more as a local club than a business. The anti vax mob are getting really shouty about human rights.


 More countries in Europe are introducing more restrictions . Its quite worrying about the anti vac mobs. If they demonstrate , they are just spreading Covid around and it could end up with riots .


----------



## Arny

I hope we’re giving our AstraZeneca vaccines away as I don’t think we’re vaccinating anyone here with it now.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Booked for my first COVID test tomorrow… have a cold but have mercy on those who work with me…
So wish me luck…
Obviously will get a sick note but I can work from home…
But should I then work from home in sick note?
Asked manager but he just said “tough”!
Atm bit under weather really…


----------



## £54etgfb6

Jaf said:


> The anti vax mob are getting really shouty about human rights.


It's odd since I don't remember any of the human rights including "drinking at your local pub". And if they claim it's discrimination; is it discrimination if I am denied entry to a pub for being topless?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Good question is - who pays for absence, for hospital treatment etc.. of those who chose not to be vaccinated?
What about those whose treatment was cancelled because hospitals are full of very ill unvaccinated patients? From what I read this is the situation in some East European countries where the percentage of vaccinations is low.
If people make decisions because they have rights why they should not bear the consequences?
Safety belts in our cars limit our freedom and comfort but do they limit our human rights?
Statistically countries with high percentage of vaccinations like Spain or Portugal fare better than those with low.

I understand the fear of unknown, but science is our best defence now.


----------



## £54etgfb6

cheekyscrip said:


> Good question is - who pays for absence, for hospital treatment etc.. of those who chose not to be vaccinated?
> What about those whose treatment was cancelled because hospitals are full of very ill unvaccinated patients?


In the UK (sorry not sure where you're from)- *us!* I don't personally resent anti vaxxers for using the NHS since it's funded by my wages because I don't think anyone should be judged for/barred from accessing healthcare but ultimately the person funding their treatment is every one of us. It's important as to figuring out how we as a country are meant to fund our healthcare but I don't agree with the notion that if someone does not take a vaccine or follow medical advice they should not receive medical care.



cheekyscrip said:


> If people make decisions because they have rights why they should not bear the consequences?


Although not being vaccinated or following medical advice will increase someone's risk of catching covid and/or having major complications, you'd find difficulty arguing whether a patient contracted covid due to these factors or if they would have contracted covid regardless. Aside from the matter of playing god, I don't think we can resent/remove healthcare from patients who have seemingly caused their own predicaments as this would spiral out of control. Do we refuse overweight people (aka the majority of the UK) from medical treatments such as a heart attack brought on by coronary artery disease? Type 2 Diabetes sufferers? Do we refuse drug users and those with substance addictions? It's a grey area in my opinion and not the most ethical.

However, I can understand the frustration. Lack of compliance to medical treatments and avoidance of medical advice cost the NHS a lot but there are a multitude of reasons as to why it happens and I think the best solution is to tackle each of these reasons individually. At the end of the day there will always be people who do not heed medical advice, and that is their choice and they deserve autonomy but we cannot make healthcare something you have to qualify for, imo.


----------



## Guest

Aside from people in high risk categories, is there anyone who has not been out for a meal or other event in public recently (past few months).
I think for most people, carry on as you were doing things and taking precautions. If it is ok for those in government it should be ok for the rest. Just use care when out and about.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> Sadly it's not a surprise that developing countries don't have access to the resources needed to tackle coronavirus. There is now a malaria vaccine for children but medication to prevent/treat it has been available for years. Despite this 409,000 died from malaria in 2019 and 2/3 of those were children under 5. https://www.who.int/teams/global-malaria-programme/reports/world-malaria-report-2020/


But to put it into context

*1.5 billion*
*malaria cases averted 
since 2000*
*7.6 million*
*malaria-related deaths averted
since 2000*
*229 million*
*new malaria infections*

*I* Think it's fair to assume that most of the deaths were in areas that were difficult to access. Also as with the Covid vaccination in South Africa to name one country, a shortage of people qualified to administer the vaccine.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Probably more of a one for the political thread?
> 
> I only had my second jab three/four months ago and I'm already getting multiple text messages about booking a booster. I will, but I've made the strategic decision to have it whilst I'm up at family for Christmas - that way I'm not on my own if it sends me sideways.
> 
> I think the powers that be are missing a trick by not talking more about how boosters work - I still see an awful lot of people asking why a *third dose of the same vaccine would have any more effect that two.* I recently found an article that explained it quite nicely to me - basically, every vaccine dose trains your body to better fight the virus by helping it develop better defences and offensive capabilities. I suppose you could liken it to a sports club having pre-season friendlies to get a new team working better.


I had my third booster vaccination months ago and it was a different vaccine to the previous two.My first two jabs were Sinopharm and for the third I was given the choice of Moderna or Pfizer. I chose the Pfizer.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...oster-shots-can-help-protect-you-from-omicron

*How booster shots can help protect you from Omicron*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just had our Sainsbury's delivery, I said thank you and thank for all your help this year and he don't worry we'll be seeing a lot more for us next year when we go back into lockdown.


----------



## Calvine

Jesthar said:


> Probably more of a one for the political thread?


I thought the Covid Political thread was for people who wanted to discuss the . . . .well . . . political aspects, maybe have a dig at the government. Piers Corbyn is simply an anti-vaxxer, activist, whatever title this lot give themselves. But by all means get a mod to move it; it won't upset me one iota.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> I hope we're giving our AstraZeneca vaccines away as I don't think we're vaccinating anyone here with it now.


Any idea why this is, @Arny?


----------



## Calvine

Every national appears to have this - different colours. To be honest, this will not influence either way what I plan to do re booster.


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> Any idea why this is, @Arny?


It's not been advised as a booster, and younger people are told to get a different initial jab due to the blood clot issue I assume?


----------



## Arny

Calvine said:


> Any idea why this is, @Arny?


As @MilleD says.
This is my assumption too.
I would think everyone that had it as a first dose has had their second by now.
Anyone just getting their first in the over 40s category (the only ones now recommended to have AZ in uk) will probably be being given one of the others purely because the vaccination centres will have more stock of it currently.

Found this (apologies its from the government website).
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ord-astrazeneca-vaccines-to-countries-in-need
The AZ one is easier to store so hopefully some progress will be made in other parts of the world.


----------



## kimthecat

Email from NHS today 
New treatments for the vulnerable .

*Important information about new treatments for coronavirus.*
The NHS is using new treatments for coronavirus. Your medical records show that you might be suitable for these treatments if a PCR test confirms that you have coronavirus.

These treatments need to be given quickly after you start to feel unwell. They can stop you from getting seriously ill. More information: https://www.nhs.uk/CoronavirusTreatments

*You should:*

Have a PCR test kit ready at home.
Take a PCR test if you get coronavirus symptoms.
If the PCR test confirms that you have coronavirus: the NHS will call you to tell you how you might get a treatment.
Coronavirus treatments can help you if you are ill, but vaccination is still the best protection for you and your loved ones.

*1. Have a PCR test kit ready at home*
NHS Test & Trace are sending you a PCR coronavirus test kit to keep so that you can get tested quickly if you have any coronavirus symptoms.

This kit will be sent to the address that you have provided to the NHS. Tell your GP as soon as possible if your address has changed. NHS Test & Trace can send replacement tests.

Call 119 for advice, selecting the option for Test & Trace, if:


you have not received a PCR test by 10 January 2022
you develop symptoms before your PCR test arrives
you lose your PCR test or it has any damage or missing parts.
*2. Take a PCR test if you get coronavirus symptoms*
Use your PCR test if you develop any coronavirus symptoms, even if they are mild: a high temperature, a new continuous cough (coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours), a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste.

If you get coronavirus symptoms and don't have a PCR test kit at home, you can still get a PCR test by phoning 119 or visiting https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test.

When registering a PCR test, it is very important that you enter your NHS number and postcode correctly. This lets you get your test result and allows the NHS to contact you about treatment if you have coronavirus.

*3. If the PCR test confirms that you have coronavirus*
If the PCR test shows that you have got coronavirus, the NHS will contact you within 24 hours to arrange a telephone appointment with a health professional.

If you are not contacted about treatment within 24 hours of your positive PCR test result, please contact your GP surgery or call 111. They can make an urgent referral.

*Why have you sent me this letter?*
Health experts have looked at the health conditions which put people more at risk of coronavirus. This has been agreed by UK chief medical officers.

Your medical records show that you have, or previously had, one or more of those health conditions, which means that these new treatments might be suitable for you if a PCR test confirms you have coronavirus.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

The Queen has cancelled her Sandringham Christmas.


----------



## willa

Had my Booster today, Pfizer. All 3 doses have been Pfizer 

Really hoping I don’t get the horrid side effects I had last time . It’s only been 4 hours but already starting to feel kinda spaced out and nauseas


----------



## margy

My daughter is hosting Christmas for the first time this year as for once she, her husband and me are off work on Christmas day. Her in laws are also invited. So much to look forward to especially with her 2yr old. My daughter got a txt today to say her MIL has tested positive so that's an end to our family Christmas. My husband and I will still go so just hoping we don't come down with it before the big day.
I thought someone said on tv the rules had changed and it was isolate for 5 days and take a daily test. My daughter said it's 10 days.
Edited to add MIL is fit and healthy so not expected to be ill, she's just got mild cold symptoms.


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Booked for my first COVID test tomorrow… have a cold but have mercy on those who work with me…
> So wish me luck…
> Obviously will get a sick note but I can work from home…
> But should I then work from home in sick note?
> Asked manager but he just said "tough"!
> Atm bit under weather really…


How are you today?

OH and I went to a Cafe today. One we know isn't busy, is large and well ventilated. Only 4 tables with people on, so very safe...................except............this ruddy woman who spent the whole time on her phone and her very young covid carrier, who sped around the cafe touching everything including tables!!

Luckily, he was drawn to the front window and we were at the back.
I fear that if he had come near us, she would have felt a tongue lashing.


----------



## cheekyscrip

rona said:


> How are you today?
> 
> OH and I went to a Cafe today. One we know isn't busy, is large and well ventilated. Only 4 tables with people on, so very safe...................except............this ruddy woman who spent the whole time on her phone and her very young covid carrier, who sped around the cafe touching everything including tables!!
> 
> Luckily, he was drawn to the front window and we were at the back.
> I fear that if he had come near us, she would have felt a tongue lashing.


Oh, people are headless!
I am negative. So just a flu of sorts… 
Feeling woozy …

In this state I somehow unmuted in my Zoom meeting…. With tragic, tragic consequences as my OH came to the room thinking I was on YouTube….

Omicron is here too and cases growing…
OH is booked for surgery tomorrow so hopefully it goes ahead…
Hope you are well?


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Oh, people are headless!
> I am negative. So just a flu of sorts…
> Feeling woozy …
> 
> In this state I somehow unmuted in my Zoom meeting…. With tragic, tragic consequences as my OH came to the room thinking I was on YouTube….
> 
> Omicron is here too and cases growing…
> OH is booked for surgery tomorrow so hopefully it goes ahead…
> Hope you are well?


I am, very well thank you. I'm lucky in that I don't need to mix at all and probably won't apart from walking with a few friends until this wave is over. The numbers are just starting to rise here. Not sure if Omicron or just result of silly Xmas shopping!

Glad it's only flu, though sounds a bad bout!

What is OH going in for?


----------



## MilleD

What's the longest anyone has had to wait for a PCR result?

OH had one 2pm Sunday and has still heard nothing.


----------



## willa

MilleD said:


> What's the longest anyone has had to wait for a PCR result?
> 
> OH had one 2pm Sunday and has still heard nothing.


My brother had to wait roughly 48 hours for his


----------



## Happy Paws2

WHO urges caution over holiday events 

An event cancelled is better than a life cancelled, it's better too celebrate later than too grieve later.


----------



## willa

The Queen has led by example,scaling back her Christmas. 
Yet the Government are all “carry on as normal but be careful “ ‍♀

I’ve woken thismorning with a painful arm I can barely move, and it’s burnjng all down it


----------



## Siskin

I don’t think the government is saying carry on as normal, it’s more a case of consider more carefully what you plan to do over Christmas. The country can’t keep going into lockdowns and this variant although more infectious appears from all the South African data, to be less virulent unless you’re not vaccinated. The main worry is to not overwhelm the hospitals, the variant may be less infectious but there will be the non vaccinated and those unknown people where the vaccines have not been able to achieve a high enough immunity in them for some reason that could end up in hospital. Because of the ease of transmission there could be more people needing hospital treatment all at once then if it was a less infectious variant. 
It would appear that omicron either does not infect vaccinated people or they only have mild cold like symptoms, this is what the evidence appears to be showing from SA which is about a month ahead of us. In SA there seems to be a lowering of daily infection (going by numbers) which may mean it’s peaked there. Also remember that the infection numbers going by test results are only showing a proportion of actual infection by omicron, there are probably many more who either haven’t tested or are symptomatic that have omicron. Many eminent scientist feel that there will a sharp rise in infections followed by an equally sharp fall and there is a possibility that this variant will be over in a month. Wouldn’t that be nice
So what should a government do? Should they have a lockdown, stop all movements, keep people in and possibly prolong the duration of omicron or try to carry on in a fairly normal manner but ask the population to consider their actions on not only themselves but others too. 
There will always be those that don’t care, will carry on regardless, but many will perhaps decide to cut back on the big party, not visit elderly more compromised relatives until later on. 
We all rail against the nanny state telling us what we can and can’t do, but yet all seem to moan about the state giving us a choice and to consider our own actions.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I think BJ is now too frightened say much at the moment, he knows his lost all creditably over the last few weeks and it's gong to be hard to get people to do what is needed.


----------



## kimthecat

willa said:


> The Queen has led by example,scaling back her Christmas.
> Yet the Government are all "carry on as normal but be careful " ‍♀
> 
> I've woken thismorning with a painful arm I can barely move, and it's burnjng all down it


 Hope you are feeling a bit better now.


----------



## MilleD

See they've announced there will be no further restrictions before Christmas in England


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Any result for your beloved yet @MilleD ?


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> Any result for your beloved yet @MilleD ?


Yes, negative. I'm still a bit nervous though.

He's literally just got a cough. I bloody hope the PCR was reliable.

Thanks for asking xx


----------



## mrs phas

Treatments for COVID-19 are for people aged 12 and over who have tested positive for the virus and are at highest risk of getting seriously ill.

This includes some people who have:


Down's syndrome
a rare condition affecting the brain or nerves (including multiple sclerosis, motor neurone disease, Huntington's disease or myasthenia gravis)
sickle cell disease
certain types of cancer
HIV or AIDS
a severe liver condition (such as cirrhosis)
chronic kidney disease (CKD) stage 4 or 5
had an organ transplant
certain autoimmune or inflammatory conditions (such as rheumatoid arthritis or inflammatory bowel disease)
a condition or treatment that makes you more likely to get infections
had certain types of chemotherapy in the last 12 months
had radiotherapy in the last 6 months 

A doctor or specialist will confirm if you are eligible for treatment.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/21...rRqJ-5PuVlXhL-wDywYgp7CFfYTB53zjhSm2ToCWO0fyc

*Israel to begin administering fourth dose of COVID-19 vaccine *


----------



## Arny

margy said:


> I thought someone said on tv the rules had changed and it was isolate for 5 days and take a daily test. My daughter said it's 10 days.


Maybe you'd heard this @margy?
"Covid: self isolation cut from 10 days to seven with negative test"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59749447


----------



## margy

Arny said:


> Maybe you'd heard this @margy?
> "Covid: self isolation cut from 10 days to seven with negative test"
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59749447


Yes I saw that this morning. I was sure someone somewhere on tv said 5 days and lateral flow test every day. Maybe it was someone just suggesting that or maybe I dreamt it.


Arny said:


> Maybe you'd heard this @margy?
> "Covid: self isolation cut from 10 days to seven with negative test"
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59749447


----------



## catz4m8z

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think BJ is now too frightened say much at the moment, he knows his lost all creditably over the last few weeks and it's gong to be hard to get people to do what is needed.


I know this isnt the political thread but honestly I really dont envy any government anywhere who has to try and get things 'right' during such an unprecedented time.

I feel like numbers of cases in my hospital are rising but maybe slower then before. Hopefully this thing will follow the course expected and continue to develop new less severe strains as time goes by until it settles into the cold/flu section. I mean it will probably take about 5 yrs for that to happen! (and Im already fed up of this new normal!:Shy).


----------



## mrs phas

As if those living with HIV, in countries without a form of NHS, haven't enough stigma to live with

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59697807


----------



## £54etgfb6

mrs phas said:


> As if those living with HIV, in countries without a form of NHS, haven't enough stigma to live with
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59697807


Why specifically mention HIV. It's relevant but the use of it for a headline is sensationalism when there are a multitude of conditions and diseases that suppress the immune system. Will read it later tho.

Edit as I have read now: The fact that the article (which is aimed at a UK audience) lists obesity as a cause of immunosuppression, an incredibly common condition in the west making up a third of our entire adult population but chose to use HIV in the title is absurd. How many undiagnosed or untreated individuals with HIV are there in the UK in comparison to someone who is obese? If they felt the absolute need to list a condition (and I'm not sure why they'd need to) there are others, such as obesity, that are much more applicable to their target audience. Regardless, immunosuppressive would have sufficed and most people regardless of health literacy can understand it's meaning (especially as it applies to a lot of us). Such an out of touch and discriminatory headline. It's embarrassing that HIV sufferers, whether treated or not, are seen in this way- as a scapegoat.

Viruses replicate in perfectly healthy people too regardless. Mutations occur with each replication. This is relevant information but the BBC have done a disservice to the researching team's work.


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> As if those living with HIV, in countries without a form of NHS, haven't enough stigma to live with
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59697807


South Africa which has the highest number of HIV infections in the world does have a State Health Service and medication and treatment for HIV is free.


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Why specifically mention HIV. It's relevant but the use of it for a headline is sensationalism when there are a multitude of conditions and diseases that suppress the immune system. Will read it later tho.
> 
> Edit as I have read now: The fact that the article (which is aimed at a UK audience) lists obesity as a cause of immunosuppression, an incredibly common condition in the west making up a third of our entire adult population but chose to use HIV in the title is absurd. How many undiagnosed or untreated individuals with HIV are there in the UK in comparison to someone who is obese? If they felt the absolute need to list a condition (and I'm not sure why they'd need to) there are others, such as obesity, that are much more applicable to their target audience. Regardless, immunosuppressive would have sufficed and most people regardless of health literacy can understand it's meaning (especially as it applies to a lot of us). Such an out of touch and discriminatory headline. It's embarrassing that HIV sufferers, whether treated or not, are seen in this way- as a scapegoat.
> 
> Viruses replicate in perfectly healthy people too regardless. Mutations occur with each replication. This is relevant information but the BBC have done a disservice to the researching team's work.


Maybe you didn't notice but the research was done in South Africa by South African scientists and quite naturally with their own population in mind .

The obesity rate in SA and the UK is more or less the same. One difference is that in SA although attitudes are altering a woman is considered more marriageable if she's overweight and has had at least one child to prove her fertility. As a result obesity is less of a stigma.

It's estimated in the UK some 101,600 people are living with HIV/Aids compared to 20.4% of the population or some 7.7 million people in South Africa. One would imagine therefore that HIV rather than obesity would be foremost in the researchers minds.

It's not a new theory either that there could be a direct link between the virus causing HIV and the one that causes Covid.

Another article about the same research, not by the BBC.

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavir...hiv-connection-here-is-how-1890313-2021-12-21


----------



## mrs phas

bmr10 said:


> It's embarrassing that HIV sufferers, whether treated or not, are seen in this way- as a scapegoat.


Which was my point in the first place


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Maybe you didn't notice but the research was done in South Africa by South African scientists and quite naturally with their own population in mind .
> 
> The obesity rate in SA and the UK is more or less the same. One difference is that in SA although attitudes are altering a woman is considered more marriageable if she's overweight and has had at least one child to prove her fertility. As a result obesity is less of a stigma.
> 
> It's estimated in the UK some 101,600 people are living with HIV/Aids compared to 20.4% of the population or some 7.7 million people in South Africa. One would imagine therefore that HIV rather than obesity would be foremost in the researchers minds.
> 
> It's not a new theory either that there could be a direct link between the virus causing HIV and the one that causes Covid.
> 
> Another article about the same research, not by the BBC.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavir...hiv-connection-here-is-how-1890313-2021-12-21


If there is a link it could explain why two of the variants of concern originated in South Africa.


----------



## willa

I feel absolutely wiped out & feel like I’m coming down with something . My sinuses are getting clogged up & headaches are coming on. Could just sleep and sleep

Can’t decide if it’s side effects of booster still. Had the booster Monday afternoon

I’ve taken a LF Test and it’s negative


----------



## Happy Paws2

willa said:


> I feel absolutely wiped out & feel like I'm coming down with something . My sinuses are getting clogged up & headaches are coming on. Could just sleep and sleep
> 
> Can't decide if it's side effects of booster still. Had the booster Monday afternoon
> 
> I've taken a LF Test and it's negative


It took nearly a week for me to get over my booster.


----------



## £54etgfb6

mrs phas said:


> Which was my point in the first place


I'm sorry I can't work out the tone of your message. I was agreeing with you regardless. I'm not sure if it came across like I was disagreeing with you or correcting you, sorry if so.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> Maybe you didn't notice but the research was done in South Africa by South African scientists and quite naturally with their own population in mind .


Of course, but a UK news service writing an article for a UK audience should tailor the language to their audience, in my opinion. The actual research paper, if not already published, will likely take a South African view but for the BBC to list only individuals positive for HIV in the title is random and much more relevant examples could have been given. For many British people this will perpetuate the stereotype that people living with HIV are dangerous, dirty, and to be avoided.


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Of course, but a UK news service writing an article for a UK audience should tailor the language to their audience, in my opinion. The actual research paper, if not already published, will likely take a South African view but for the BBC to list only individuals positive for HIV in the title is random and much more relevant examples could have been given. For many British people this will perpetuate the stereotype that people living with HIV are dangerous, dirty, and to be avoided.


OK if you say so! In that case the Americans are just as much at fault with this article and TV report.

Quite frankly I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/cor...etween-omicron-covid-variant-and-hiv/2751193/

*Stanford Researchers Looking at Possible Link Between Omicron COVID Variant and HIV*


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> OK if you say so! In that case the Americans are just as much at fault with this article and TV report.
> 
> Quite frankly I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill
> 
> https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/cor...etween-omicron-covid-variant-and-hiv/2751193/
> 
> *Stanford Researchers Looking at Possible Link Between Omicron COVID Variant and HIV*


I'm not really interested in debating who's headlines are worse and what American's are writing isn't relevant to a BBC article anyway. Someone posted a link to an article and I agreed with them that the headline is sensationalism and further stigmatises HIV positive individuals. If you don't think the headline wording is a big deal that's fine  Each to their own.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Crikey. 119k new cases today. It really is rather pesky isn't it? **

** clearly the understatement of the year!


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> It really is rather pesky isn't it?


Just a tad!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So tonight we went out. We went to the Panto at our local theatre. It was good in terms of masks etc., the people next to us had masks (we always sit in the same seats, at the end of a row, on the front of a section), so did the people behind, the doors were open, so I felt okay about it. In the intermission, we walked into the town (about 90 seconds) and in that journey there and back we walked past two bars and three restaurants. There was barely anyone in any of them, two restaurants had only two tables (this was at about 8:45pm) in and the bars were essentially empty. So so sad. We are only a small town - and usually Christmas Eve Eve would be busy as anything. Not just those people who own those venues, or work there but also the wholesalers and all of the way up. It's really hit me tonight. I feel quite glum about it


----------



## Lurcherlad

Excerpt from an article on the BBC app…










If I catch Omicron, chances are (triple jabbed) I might be laid up for a few days, feeling poorly.

Fortunately, I'm not a doctor or nurse so nobody will be relying on me for their serious healthcare requirements.

Nor a carer responsible for the well-being of vulnerable people.

Omicron itself may not be so serious, but the knock on effects it might have could be.

I shall continue to be very careful about catching and spreading this virus, whilst doing my best to carry on with a "normal" life.


----------



## MollySmith

We are LFT’ing tomorrow, told my parents we would be, and neither my brother or I think they have ever LFT’d. I’ve asked and they change the subject. For the first time, I’m a bit uhmmmmm. I could be being over cautious I guess.


----------



## kimthecat

several families meeting up tomorrow so we are testing with the one you do at home. OH and I are not staying for Christmas dinner , my sister and I tend to argue . Cue Eastenders drum roll. :Hilarious


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> We are LFT'ing tomorrow, told my parents we would be, and neither my brother or I think they have ever LFT'd. I've asked and they change the subject. For the first time, I'm a bit uhmmmmm. I could be being over cautious I guess.


Maybe, but still worth doing


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe, but still worth doing


Oh we will, but my parents... who knows. I'll try asking again tomorrow. I have ordered another set of 7 but I doubt they even have any.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> Oh we will, but my parents... who knows. I'll try asking again tomorrow. I have ordered another set of 7 but I doubt they even have any.


You can but try … on both counts.

I hope your parents comply … and it gives you some peace of mind so you can relax and enjoy the day together.


----------



## willa

Waiting for my PCR result. Still have horrid fatigue, aching, dry cough, stuffy sinuses.

All LF’s have been negative. So who knows


----------



## stuaz

MollySmith said:


> We are LFT'ing tomorrow, told my parents we would be, and neither my brother or I think they have ever LFT'd. I've asked and they change the subject. For the first time, I'm a bit uhmmmmm. I could be being over cautious I guess.


Not that unusual not to have tested though is it? I know a few people who have never had a test but also know people that take a test everyday. Both ends of the spectrum really.

I personally don't routinely test myself, but do so when required eg for taking a flight or if it's sensible to do so eg after being exposed or before an event but I can see how some people, particularly elderly people could get by without having a test.


----------



## Magyarmum

stuaz said:


> Not that unusual not to have tested though is it? I know a few people who have never had a test but also know people that take a test everyday. Both ends of the spectrum really.
> 
> I personally don't routinely test myself, but do so when required eg for taking a flight or if it's sensible to do so eg after being exposed or before an event but I can see how some people, particularly elderly people could get by without having a test.


You don't know how lucky you are in the UK. Here in Hungary we have to pay for the test and at around £44 every time it's not cheap!


----------



## stuaz

Magyarmum said:


> You don't know how lucky you are in the UK. Here in Hungary we have to pay for the test and at around £44 every time it's not cheap!


You have to pay for some covid tests here in the UK as well but I accept your point.

Sadly I think a lot of people take the NHS for granted. You only have to see posts about people moaning about Vet bills to remind them that it's a glimpse as to what a more private, fee based medical system would be like.


----------



## Magyarmum

stuaz said:


> You have to pay for some covid tests here in the UK as well but I accept your point.
> 
> Sadly I think a lot of people take the NHS for granted. You only have to see posts about people moaning about Vet bills to remind them that it's a glimpse as to what a more private, fee based medical system would be like.[/QUOTE ]
> 
> We have a good NHS here. The tests are only free if you go to the doctor or hospital with a suspected infection. Actually private medical treatment is very reasonable over here. A couple of months ago when I had a minor ENT problem instead of going to my GP who would have sent me to the hospital I made an appointment privately. It cost me £50 for a consultation and treatment.


----------



## Gemmaa

I was a good girl and had my booster this morning, had Moderna this time, and
GOOD GRIEF! I can't tell if it's because I had Ready Brek before I went, if it's just really hot tonight, or if my blood is now fire, but WOW! I am boiling! And also really cold.
Also, send help, I can't move my arm.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Gemmaa said:


> I was a good girl and had my booster this morning, had Moderna this time, and
> GOOD GRIEF! I can't tell if it's because I had Ready Brek before I went, if it's just really hot tonight, or if my blood is now fire, but WOW! I am boiling! And also really cold.
> Also, send help, I can't move my arm.


Do you mean your arm feels paralysed? I think you should ring the help line,119, it sounds as though the vaccinator hit a nerve. Meanwhile take some Paracetamol and relax if you can.


----------



## Gemmaa

I'm just being really babyish . 
It seized up a bit when I was asleep, and I couldn't lift it very far. Happened with Pfizer, I felt like I'd been kicked in the arm by a horse for a few days.
But I have taken some paracetamol now, and I'm hoping it might start easing off soon.
I didn't get any other side effects with the first 2 jabs, so this really intense heat has come as a bit of a shock epressed


----------



## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> I think you should ring the help line,119


 Friend of mine rang an NHS helpline a year or two back - the 111 number tho' (not covid related) and said they were absolutely brilliant. You're right - certainly if it persists I'd be phoning someone.


----------



## Gemmaa

Well after a horrific night, I didn't spontaneously combust. Just got a cracking headache, and random waves of heat.
Felt like I'd been strapped to a heater in a desert.


----------



## Boxer123

Gemmaa said:


> Well after a horrific night, I didn't spontaneously combust. Just got a cracking headache, and random waves of heat.
> Felt like I'd been strapped to a heater in a desert.


My sister had Moderna and got very poorly I'm hoping for Phizer.


----------



## Blackadder

I haven't had a booster & I'm not sure if I will! If what we are being told is right then it'll be another big push for a 4th jab in Feb/March then number 5 in May/June. I can see the sense for an annual Flu shot for the vulnerable but every 10 weeks or so, really?
I might be a little too cynical I'll grant but this is how it seems to work, soften us up with a little "bad" news, a couple of "leaked" plans before announcing the latest measure some time later.

I've done everything asked, whether I agreed or not, including distancing, masks, I'm double vaxxed yet it's not enough & the prospect of further restrictions in the new year loom.

Nearly 2 years & where are we? Same old same old....bloody groundhog day!


----------



## Boxer123

Blackadder said:


> I haven't had a booster & I'm not sure if I will! If what we are being told is right then it'll be another big push for a 4th jab in Feb/March then number 5 in May/June. I can see the sense for an annual Flu shot for the vulnerable but every 10 weeks or so, really?
> I might be a little too cynical I'll grant but this is how it seems to work, soften us up with a little "bad" news, a couple of "leaked" plans before announcing the latest measure some time later.
> 
> I've done everything asked, whether I agreed or not, including distancing, masks, I'm double vaxxed yet it's not enough & the prospect of further restrictions in the new year loom.
> 
> Nearly 2 years & where are we? Same old same old....bloody groundhog day!


I think you need to hop onto Covid political we are having the same discussion there


----------



## Blackadder

Boxer123 said:


> I think you need to hop onto Covid political we are having the same discussion there


Not sure that's wise, I quite like this place


----------



## Magyarmum

Boxer123 said:


> My sister had Moderna and got very poorly I'm hoping for Phizer.


I had Pfizer and apart from the injection site feeling a bit sore and hot for a couple of days had no other after effects.


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> I had Pfizer and apart from the injection site feeling a bit sore and hot for a couple of days had no other after effects.


Pfizer for me too but I also had bad flu like symptoms for about 24hrs afterwards...and a really bruised arm!:Woot:Shifty

Somebody mentioned today that we might become a covid ward soon for this current wave:Nailbiting. Not the best news but we are hoping that this wave will be abit different, so more emphasis on treatment, oxygen therapy and sending people home. First wave was just brutal and honestly just a whole lot of watching people die. (not surprised that so many health care workers wound up getting PTSD from it).


----------



## Lurcherlad

Gemmaa said:


> Well after a horrific night, I didn't spontaneously combust. Just got a cracking headache, and random waves of heat.
> Felt like I'd been strapped to a heater in a desert.


My arm was really sore all over after my jabs … couldn't lie on that side nor lift my arm without it hurting.

Settled down after a couple of days though 

@catz4m8z can't "like" your post 

You and your colleagues have been heroes through this … I wish you could see an end in sight.


----------



## lullabydream

Gemmaa said:


> I'm just being really babyish .
> It seized up a bit when I was asleep, and I couldn't lift it very far. Happened with Pfizer, I felt like I'd been kicked in the arm by a horse for a few days.
> But I have taken some paracetamol now, and I'm hoping it might start easing off soon.
> I didn't get any other side effects with the first 2 jabs, so this really intense heat has come as a bit of a shock epressed


Moderna hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt awful for a few days afterwards.
Fingers crossed you feel better soon


----------



## Calvine

catz4m8z said:


> Somebody mentioned today that we might become a covid ward soon for this current wave


NHS plans for 'mini-Nightingale' hospitals in car parks in battle against Omicron | The Independent

Have read this a few times too.


----------



## willa

Back to having no PCR Tests available, and LFT’s are like gold dust, not available for home delivery


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> Typical Chinese reluctance to admit anything is wrong in China I guess.


Talking of China:
Chinese lockdown rule-breakers shamed to encourage Covid compliance (msn.com)
Can you imagine this happening here!


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> Talking of China:
> Chinese lockdown rule-breakers shamed to encourage Covid compliance (msn.com)
> Can you imagine this happening here!


Goodness me, not even allowing people out to buy food.


----------



## Calvine

Siskin said:


> Goodness me, not even allowing people out to buy food.


 Starving them into submission!


----------



## catz4m8z

Calvine said:


> NHS plans for 'mini-Nightingale' hospitals in car parks in battle against Omicron | The Independent
> .


Not sure this a sound idea TBH. From everything Ive read it seems like we are managing with admissions so far but staffing shortages are proving to be a huge problem in some areas with people testing positive. I mean I can see how a 'pop up' overflow hospital would be great for an emergency situation it really couldnt be run effectively as any kind of longer term solution.



Calvine said:


> Talking of China:
> Chinese lockdown rule-breakers shamed to encourage Covid compliance (msn.com)
> Can you imagine this happening here!


wow, they arent messing about are they??:Wideyed


----------



## Calvine

Anti-vaxxers storm Covid testing centre during 'freedom' rally in Milton Keynes | Protest | The Guardian

What is wrong with these idiots? If they don't want to be vaccinated, no-one is forcing them. What do they think it will achieve?


----------



## stuaz

Calvine said:


> Anti-vaxxers storm Covid testing centre during 'freedom' rally in Milton Keynes | Protest | The Guardian
> 
> What is wrong with these idiots? If they don't want to be vaccinated, no-one is forcing them. What do they think it will achieve?


It was instigated by Piers Corbyn. I dont think there was much "thinking" happening....


----------



## LittleEms

Had my booster yesterday morning (Pfizer), thought I’d gotten away with no side effects but woke up this morning feeling terrible :Arghh

Not as bad as my original jab though (my side effects landed me in hospital!!) so I’ll take it!


----------



## catz4m8z

Well, just got a phonecall to say my swab test was negative today...phew! My ward has been shut because several patients and a couple of staff were positive (even with all the precautions and testing covid still sometimes gets through, although it happens rarely).
Honestly surprised myself with how nervous and scared I was waiting for the results though.:Shy I think having covid last year kinda traumatized me TBH! Being that sick and completely on my own, also knowing from first hand experience how young healthy people were dying from the same thing I had was completely terrifying.
Thats why I really dont understand people who deny covid or vaccines, or claim its no worse then a cold....they just really dont get it do they?:Shifty


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> or claim its no worse then a cold....


Probably because for a lot of people who have had covid, it was no worse than a cold. 
I work with teenagers, literally hundreds of teens that I know personally have gotten covid and none have been very sick from it, most had minor symptoms if any. Most staff has had minor symptoms. Kids are getting sicker from strep throat and mono. So it's not a question of "not getting it" we also know plenty of people who have had more severe infections. But personal experience does matter and people should not be dismissed just because their experience differs.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> Probably because for a lot of people who have had covid, it was no worse than a cold.
> I work with teenagers, literally hundreds of teens that I know personally have gotten covid and none have been very sick from it, most had minor symptoms if any. Most staff has had minor symptoms. Kids are getting sicker from strep throat and mono. So it's not a question of "not getting it" we also know plenty of people who have had more severe infections. But personal experience does matter and people should not be dismissed just because their experience differs.


But isnt that kinda like saying 'I dont know anybody who has been run over by a car personally therefore road safety is BS and looking both ways before you cross the street is just alarmist claptrap!'
Personal experience def informs my decisions but Im not going to ignore proven information just because I havent seen its effects myself. I mean I cant see oxygen but Im fairly sure I need it to survive!


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> But isnt that kinda like saying 'I dont know anybody who has been run over by a car personally therefore road safety is BS and looking both ways before you cross the street is just alarmist claptrap!'
> Personal experience def informs my decisions but Im not going to ignore proven information just because I havent seen its effects myself. I mean I cant see oxygen but Im fairly sure I need it to survive!


No it's not. 
I'm not ignoring any proven information, I'm not denying covid, I'm not saying vaccines don't work or not to get one, quite the opposite, over and over on this thread and the other I have been advocating FOR vaccines and touting their effectiveness. So no, it's not the same as saying I haven't been run over by a car therefore road safety is claptrap. It's more like saying that because of practicing road safety, fewer people are being run over. 
And this is exactly the sort of disingenuous portrayal that I object to. I should be allowed to say that most people who get covid, particularly if vaccinated, will be just fine without being attacked for not properly wringing my hands and fear mongering.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> No it's not.
> I'm not ignoring any proven information, I'm not denying covid, I'm not saying vaccines don't work or not to get one, quite the opposite, over and over on this thread and the other I have been advocating FOR vaccines and touting their effectiveness. So no, it's not the same as saying I haven't been run over by a car therefore road safety is claptrap. It's more like saying that because of practicing road safety, fewer people are being run over.
> And this is exactly the sort of disingenuous portrayal that I object to. I should be allowed to say that most people who get covid, particularly if vaccinated, will be just fine without being attacked for not properly wringing my hands and fear mongering.


One of my sisters has not been vaccinated caught Covid and was only a bit under the weather so I think people's experiences as you were saying vary enormously. I know some people who have been really poorly.


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> I should be allowed to say that most people who get covid, particularly if vaccinated, will be just fine without being attacked for not properly wringing my hands and fear mongering.


Nobody is stopping you from saying anything (or 'attacking' you)....its a free country after all.
and yes, most people who get covid esp when vaccinated will be fine but some will still die. Whilst that is true of many statistically lower risk things (a healthy person could die from a paper cut for example) covid is something that its impossible to avoid and live a normal life. I just feel that it should be respected and not treated lightly for those reasons.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just don't how I feel about it all anymore. I am sick to death of LFTs I'll tell you that! We've just done them because we are having a couple round for dinner (one of only two couples we've seen during this madness). Neither of us do anything, go anywhere, she even still quarantines their grocery shopping FGS...and yet still, here we are, doing blooming LFTs.

A friend's daughter came back from Uni with Covid. She is jabbed and boosted and said she felt no worse than having a normal cold. Not even a bad cold. Part of me just thinks we all need to get it and move on...but then I think of all the women I look after at work and I don't want them to get it, as I've seen what it does.

I think @HarlequinCat summed something up on the political thread for me "I'm still being cautious but it's tiring being worried all the time".

That is exactly how I feel. Thanks HC.


----------



## catz4m8z

Mrs Funkin said:


> I think @HarlequinCat summed something up on the political thread for me "I'm still being cautious but it's tiring being worried all the time".
> .


That really hits home! tiring and frustrating I would say, you just want things to go back to normal dont you?
My hospital is starting to fill up again with more and more beds being taken over by covid.....mostly the unvaccinated of course.
Just talking with a colleague who was with a patient about to be sedated to go onto ventilation (likely never to wake up) and their last words to her were 'can I have the vaccination now?':Banghead oh dear...if only it worked like that.
I'll admit it does make me kinda angry at this point that Im taking all these precautions to protect the people who refuse to get vaccinated! Irony eh??


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> That really hits home! tiring and frustrating I would say, you just want things to go back to normal dont you?
> My hospital is starting to fill up again with more and more beds being taken over by covid.....mostly the unvaccinated of course.
> Just talking with a colleague who was with a patient about to be sedated to go onto ventilation (likely never to wake up) and their last words to her were 'can I have the vaccination now?':Banghead oh dear...if only it worked like that.
> I'll admit it does make me kinda angry at this point that Im taking all these precautions to protect the people who refuse to get vaccinated! Irony eh??


The unvaccinated taking all the beds in the hospital where I had the operation was and still is a huge issue. My consultant was literally jumping up and down with rage because he couldn't get his patients in for urgent ops. To be honest I was quite surprised he was still there to do the op and hadn't either walked out in disgust or burst a blood vessel


----------



## Cleo38

catz4m8z said:


> Nobody is stopping you from saying anything (or 'attacking' you)....its a free country after all.
> and yes, most people who get covid esp when vaccinated will be fine but some will still die. Whilst that is true of many statistically lower risk things (a healthy person could die from a paper cut for example) covid is something that its impossible to avoid and live a normal life. I just feel that it should be respected and not treated lightly for those reasons.


 I am living a 'normal life', Covid doesn't really feature very highly if I'm honest.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I am living a 'normal life' tbh Covid doesn't really feature very highly if I'm honest.


Same. 
Just spent 3 hours with OH doing rehab, there we are screened and wear a mask but afterwards we had a totally normal afternoon. Went out to eat, went to a bookstore, got coffee and did a few other errands.

At this point anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had more than ample opportunity to do so. Hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated people, that alone says something. The solution is staring us in the face.


----------



## Dick Tracy

Guess I won't come out of this favourably,. But it's not a popularity contest so hey ho.

Most of the beds taken up in IC with COVID patients haven't been vaccinated. My view is if you are against the vacs,. Then don't expect to bed jump, cancer and other ill patients need their treatments and those beds just as much as you, their lives depend of it , they cannot pick and chose like you so if your not jabbed, because you are selfish, then you don't deserve to be treated end of.
Exclusions of course to those who cannot get the vacs due to their immunity or other conditions.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> Same.
> Just spent 3 hours with OH doing rehab, there we are screened and wear a mask but afterwards we had a totally normal afternoon. Went out to eat, went to a bookstore, got coffee and did a few other errands.
> 
> At this point anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had more than ample opportunity to do so. Hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated people, that alone says something. The solution is staring us in the face.


I had a great Christmas with my family, had friends round last night, went out tonight. I am lucky in that I am not vulnerable & none of my family are & we all live in England so don't have any travel restrictions.

Apart from remembering my mask when I go in to certain places then I honestly don't worry or really think about it. I know that that not everyone is in the same position as me as they are still suffering from restrictions whether it be through work or seeing loved ones & I do recognise how fortunate I am.

Glad your OH is getting his rehab, hope it's all going well


----------



## Dick Tracy

At the end of the day the shortage of IC beds won't affect you unless you need one.
Let's hope that day doesn't arise but should it I wonder if your views and that of your families will be the same???


----------



## catz4m8z

Cleo38 said:


> I am living a 'normal life', Covid doesn't really feature very highly if I'm honest.


I could def live without spending 12hr shifts in a mask. Also being unable to hear checkout people in shops coz we are talking through 2 masks and a screen!



O2.0 said:


> Hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated people, that alone says something. The solution is staring us in the face.


erm..... *thinks very hard* kill all the unvaccinated people??:Bored
(we cant just leave them to die naturally, refuse collection is already dicey in my area, the bodies would just pile up!:Hilarious).

TBH I think its the same as every other self inflicted illness. We are obliged by society to look after them....but we dont have to like it!


----------



## Siskin

catz4m8z said:


> I could def live without spending 12hr shifts in a mask. Also being unable to hear checkout people in shops coz we are talking through 2 masks and a screen!
> 
> erm..... *thinks very hard* kill all the unvaccinated people??:Bored
> (we cant just leave them to die naturally, refuse collection is already dicey in my area, the bodies would just pile up!:Hilarious).
> 
> TBH I think its the same as every other self inflicted illness. We are obliged by society to look after them....but we dont have to like it!


I was listening to an interview with the ward doctor on icu and he was saying that the nurses are finding it very difficult to stay calm and care for the unvaccinated Covid patients who were either demanding the vaccine now or screaming they didn't have Covid.


----------



## catz4m8z

Siskin said:


> I was listening to an interview with the ward doctor on icu and he was saying that the nurses are finding it very difficult to stay calm and care for the unvaccinated Covid patients who were either demanding the vaccine now or screaming they didn't have Covid.


mind *boggled*



:Hilarious


----------



## StormyThai

Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


----------



## Calvine

Dick Tracy said:


> Guess I won't come out of this favourably,. But it's not a popularity contest so hey ho.
> 
> Most of the beds taken up in IC with COVID patients haven't been vaccinated. My view is if you are against the vacs,. Then don't expect to bed jump, cancer and other ill patients need their treatments and those beds just as much as you, their lives depend of it , they cannot pick and chose like you so if your not jabbed, because you are selfish, then you don't deserve to be treated end of.
> Exclusions of course to those who cannot get the vacs due to their immunity or other conditions.


I completely see where you are coming from. BUT - you can smoke like a chimney, drink like a fish and eat like a pig, end up with conditions related to your drinking, smoking and obesity, but still you will be entitled to receive treatment on the NHS. But yes, I can see why some people, NHS staff in particular, are really angry about the situation; also I read today that 40% of people are not turning up for a vaccination appointment? That, if it is true, I find shameful and I think they should be fined.


----------



## O2.0

catz4m8z said:


> erm..... *thinks very hard* kill all the unvaccinated people??:Bored


No. 

The solution staring at us in the face is to get vaccinated. How the hell did you extrapolate from me saying hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated people, the solution is staring us in the face that I feel unvaccinated people should be killed?!?! What a horrible thing to say!

I've posted multiple articles about how poorer countries need help with getting their populations vaccinated, how boostering one population won't do much good while another population is still waiting for a first vaccine, how important it is to think of others and making sure they get vaccinated...

I'm seriously shocked at this... Coupled with the snarky comments on the other thread, it really feels like there's no point in trying to have a rational conversation is there? Fortunately those seem to be the minority though a minority that certainly shocked me this morning!

So anyways, thank you to those who have had respectful conversations about covid even when we don't agree


----------



## O2.0

StormyThai said:


> Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


I really hope he weathers it okay, hugs!


----------



## SusieRainbow

StormyThai said:


> Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


So sorry to hear that, love and prayers sent.xx


----------



## ForestWomble

I'm feeling  and :Bawling right now about some of the things being said on here.
Can I just respectfully point out / remind people that are being nasty about the unvaccinated that not ALL unvaccinated are so by choice (talking about UK only here as in USA for example a better solution might be in place) but there are hundreds, thousands, millions even, people with mental health issues who just can not get to a walk in and are being told they can not have their jab at home, the system is failing those of us with MH issues again, at a time we really need the support. 
Reading things like 'kill the unvaccinated' and being called selfish etc does NOT HELP! 

Please remember not all unvaccinated are so by choice. 
Thank you.


----------



## Boxer123

ForestWomble said:


> I'm feeling  and :Bawling right now about some of the things being said on here.
> Can I just respectfully point out / remind people that are being nasty about the unvaccinated that not ALL unvaccinated are so by choice (talking about UK only here as in USA for example a better solution might be in place) but there are hundreds, thousands, millions even, people with mental health issues who just can not get to a walk in and are being told they can not have their jab at home, the system is failing those of us with MH issues again, at a time we really need the support.
> Reading things like 'kill the unvaccinated' and being called selfish etc does NOT HELP!
> 
> Please remember not all unvaccinated are so by choice.
> Thank you.


Couldn't agree more. Many people won't have been vaccinated due to mental health difficulties or access difficulties.


----------



## O2.0

ForestWomble said:


> I'm feeling  and :Bawling right now about some of the things being said on here.
> Can I just respectfully point out / remind people that are being nasty about the unvaccinated that not ALL unvaccinated are so by choice (talking about UK only here as in USA for example a better solution might be in place) but there are hundreds, thousands, millions even, people with mental health issues who just can not get to a walk in and are being told they can not have their jab at home, the system is failing those of us with MH issues again, at a time we really need the support.
> Reading things like 'kill the unvaccinated' and being called selfish etc does NOT HELP!
> 
> Please remember not all unvaccinated are so by choice.
> Thank you.


Oh hugs to you too! 
I should have added to my rant to make vaccines more available to those who can't just run out and get one. 
And absolutely on not making assumptions about those who are not vaccinated. I so agree!


----------



## ForestWomble

Boxer123 said:


> Couldn't agree more. Many people won't have been vaccinated due to mental health difficulties or access difficulties.





O2.0 said:


> Oh hugs to you too!
> I should have added to my rant to make vaccines more available to those who can't just run out and get one.
> And absolutely on not making assumptions about those who are not vaccinated. I so agree!


Thank you both, and *hugs*


----------



## SusieRainbow

ForestWomble said:


> I'm feeling  and :Bawling right now about some of the things being said on here.
> Can I just respectfully point out / remind people that are being nasty about the unvaccinated that not ALL unvaccinated are so by choice (talking about UK only here as in USA for example a better solution might be in place) but there are hundreds, thousands, millions even, people with mental health issues who just can not get to a walk in and are being told they can not have their jab at home, the system is failing those of us with MH issues again, at a time we really need the support.
> Reading things like 'kill the unvaccinated' and being called selfish etc does NOT HELP!
> 
> Please remember not all unvaccinated are so by choice.
> Thank you.


I commented earlier about pregnant women not being vaccinated and the dilemma they have, being injected with _anything _during pregnancy and taking the risk of covid.


----------



## MollySmith

I think it's fair and reasonable to point out that @catz4m8z has been working up close and personal with Covid in her job in a way that many others of us don't. I took her post as a lighthearted/bittersweet humoured response but one that I can empathise was driven by the frustration of the stories that she has shared of those who didn't believe in the vaccine and then wanted it too late (not for any of the reasons that have been cited such as mental or physical health reasons). I can't imagine - as I'm sure many of us cannot, what that must be like.I have huge respect to PF members who are weathering a lot every day in our medical and caring professions and probably are not here to comment because they're out there on the front line and see and hear a lot more than we do.

We all have a lot of different views on Covid, influenced by what we think we know, what we do know and where we live. Nobody would want anyone else to be neglected. Educated, yes. Dead, no!! But we can be frustrated.

We've all shared a lot of posts, all 615 pages of them (blimey!) and it's impossible to keep looking back over past content to see what folk have said.

Let's be kind to each other, this space is a valuable one of sharing information to us all.


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


I an so sorry, I hope he gets through this and the rest of your family. Look after yourself too. I won't say 'don't worry', that's impossible but we're here to chat.


----------



## rona

StormyThai said:


> Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


Lets hope not and your dad is kept safe by his vaccinations

After 9 months of knowing that I should be on the vulnerable list. The NHS have just caught up with the idea that because of the drugs I'm taking, I might be at risk


----------



## Dick Tracy

rona said:


> Lets hope not and your dad is kept safe by his vaccinations
> 
> After 9 months of knowing that I should be on the vulnerable list. The NHS have just caught up with the idea that because of the drugs I'm taking, I might be at risk


Sadly the vulnerable section of society were somewhat let down , not by the NHS,. But by other powers that be,. At the start of COVID everyone was clamouring to get slots for shopping deliveries that should have gone to the genuinely vulnerable,. For example people with auto immune relating illnesses ,of which there are many, the medication these people take to control these illnesses compromise the immune system to the extent where a simple cold can end up a major illness, COVID life threatening, they were being overlooked


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> Lets hope not and your dad is kept safe by his vaccinations
> 
> After 9 months of knowing that I should be on the vulnerable list. The NHS have just caught up with the idea that because of the drugs I'm taking, I might be at risk


Oh no, I remember you mentioned that.

Same with me last December, it was a bit of a shock!

Take care @rona


----------



## Siskin

Dick Tracy said:


> Sadly the vulnerable section of society were somewhat let down , not by the NHS,. But by other powers that be,. At the start of COVID everyone was clamouring to get slots for shopping deliveries that should have gone to the genuinely vulnerable,. For example people with auto immune relating illnesses ,of which there are many, the medication these people take to control these illnesses compromise the immune system to the extent where a simple cold can end up a major illness, COVID life threatening, they were being overlooked


At the start of the pandemic last year I was diagnosed with cancer and had a five week course of radiotherapy. I had a Tesco shopping account and initially was able to book slots with no issues, then it became almost impossible. A friend discovered there was a phone number for Tesco's which could help the vulnerable so I rang them, explained what was going on with me and they put me on their priority list which has been fantastic as I'm able to easily book a slot. I can't speak for other supermarkets, but Tesco's certainly stepped up to the mark and helped me, my friend and presumably many others to get delivery slots.


----------



## rona

Dick Tracy said:


> Sadly the vulnerable section of society were somewhat let down , not by the NHS,. But by other powers that be,. At the start of COVID everyone was clamouring to get slots for shopping deliveries that should have gone to the genuinely vulnerable,. For example people with auto immune relating illnesses ,of which there are many, the medication these people take to control these illnesses compromise the immune system to the extent where a simple cold can end up a major illness, COVID life threatening, they were being overlooked


It's only the NHS that know what drugs I'm on, so can only be them that missed it!

My GP in fact. 
The letter was from them too


----------



## Dick Tracy

rona said:


> It's only the NHS that know what drugs I'm on, so can only be them that missed it!
> 
> My GP in fact


My specialist sent me a letter prior to the lockdown warning me that due to an auto immune issue I have that assuming I was taking certain immune suppressent drugs, which were listed that I was vulnerable , this was a blanket letter . The point I make is that certain stores sainsburys, Iceland etc issued home delivery slots specifically for such vulnerable people yet these slots seemed to be available more to the disabled,. Whom I appreciate had problems with their shopping but their disabilities didn't necessarily mean they were vulnerable. I was of the understanding the difference between vulnerable and disabled wasn't clarified by the stores themselves backed up by information supplied by the local council???
But perhaps it is I who have missinterputated?

I was completely able to shop, and continued to do so I add, not just for myself but others too.

Funny,. Though, and the reason I mentioned the council about 12 weeks into first lockdown at approx 8am in the morning we had a delivery of a food parcel,. I asked where it came from and was told 'the council' due to being vulnerable. I told them I didn't need it, they didn't send another.

Just put two and two together and assumed I guess


----------



## Dick Tracy

rona said:


> It's only the NHS that know what drugs I'm on, so can only be them that missed it!
> 
> My GP in fact.
> The letter was from them too


Apolygises for my last post, seems I am miss informed.

I have just checked my messages,. Sent in may 2020

Both came from GOV.uk. The second from the gov shielding services .
So yes, guessing it was down to doctors/specialists to advice relevant government departments on whom was and wasn't vunerable.


----------



## Dick Tracy

Siskin said:


> At the start of the pandemic last year I was diagnosed with cancer and had a five week course of radiotherapy. I had a Tesco shopping account and initially was able to book slots with no issues, then it became almost impossible. A friend discovered there was a phone number for Tesco's which could help the vulnerable so I rang them, explained what was going on with me and they put me on their priority list which has been fantastic as I'm able to easily book a slot. I can't speak for other supermarkets, but Tesco's certainly stepped up to the mark and helped me, my friend and presumably many others to get delivery slots.


Never a good time to receive such a diagnosis, but during the epidemic I would imagine even more terrifying.

All I can say is I hope you are receiving the care and support you need and that hopefully you are on the mend .


----------



## £54etgfb6

MollySmith said:


> Oh no, I remember you mentioned that.
> 
> Same with me last December, it was a bit of a shock!
> 
> Take care @rona


I was sent a letter saying I was vulnerable but no matter who I contacted (NHS covid helpline, nurses, doctors, my surgeon) nobody could escalate my case so that I was able to book my first vaccination. I was eligible to receive it with the 50+/60+ category almost right at the beginning (think it was 60+) but had to wait until the Scottish gov changed the regulations to allow everyone over 18 to be vaccinated. It was purely an issue with the system sorting people for vaccinations, nobody in particular's fault, but it was a very stressful time as I'm terrified of needles and as time went on I became more and more scared.


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> I'm feeling  and :Bawling right now about some of the things being said on here.
> Can I just respectfully point out / remind people that are being nasty about the unvaccinated that not ALL unvaccinated are so by choice (talking about UK only here as in USA for example a better solution might be in place) but there are hundreds, thousands, millions even, people with mental health issues who just can not get to a walk in and are being told they can not have their jab at home, the system is failing those of us with MH issues again, at a time we really need the support.
> Reading things like 'kill the unvaccinated' and being called selfish etc does NOT HELP!
> 
> Please remember not all unvaccinated are so by choice.
> Thank you.


Door-to-door vaccination effort considered in bid to reach unjabbed - reports | The Independent

This is being ''trialled'' in some areas. Not sure I would be happy to let strangers in, were I on my own.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Calvine said:


> Door-to-door vaccination effort considered in bid to reach unjabbed - reports | The Independent
> 
> This is being ''trialled'' in some areas. Not sure I would be happy to let strangers in, were I on my own.


That seems way too risky and open to abuse by scammers and robbers. Imagine being disabled and letting someone in who said they were there to give you the vaccine but they werent


----------



## MollySmith

bmr10 said:


> I was sent a letter saying I was vulnerable but no matter who I contacted (NHS covid helpline, nurses, doctors, my surgeon) nobody could escalate my case so that I was able to book my first vaccination. I was eligible to receive it with the 50+/60+ category almost right at the beginning (think it was 60+) but had to wait until the Scottish gov changed the regulations to allow everyone over 18 to be vaccinated. It was purely an issue with the system sorting people for vaccinations, nobody in particular's fault, but it was a very stressful time as I'm terrified of needles and as time went on I became more and more scared.


Needle phobia is awful isn't it? Me too, as we've said elsewhere I'm sure. I have many friends who are worried by it and the wait does make it worse. I was okay with my second vaccine but got the wobbles about my booster as I waited.

I had my suspicions. My inability to carry a pregnancy was down my immune system but it wasn't correctly on my records as the private IVF clinic diagnosed it. I don't take anything for it as I'm not longer trying to be a parent but it's still a condition.

I had been careful thankfully until then, but I was going to the shops albeit masked up and all the precautions because my husband is vulnerable due to his meds. I do go to the shops here when essential now but vigilant in what I do and click collect with local shops.


----------



## MollySmith

HarlequinCat said:


> That seems way too risky and open to abuse by scammers and robbers. Imagine being disabled and letting someone in who said they were there to give you the vaccine but they werent


My thoughts too. My late father in law would let anyone into the house and I have a neighbour who'd be at risk too.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> That seems way too risky and open to abuse by scammers and robbers. Imagine being disabled and letting someone in who said they were there to give you the vaccine but they werent


Absolutely agree. I recall when my mother was being ''assessed'' by Social Services to ascertain which ''care home'' would be suitable for her. They actually_ told me _that they had ''knocked on her door (she lived alone) and asked her if she could make them a cup of tea'' (!! no kidding) to see if she could manage it. They said she seemed ''a bit confused''; I was furious and told them she would be more than ''a bit confused'' as she had been told NEVER to answer the door to strangers (three of them) and that they ought to know better. I also enclosed dreadful photos of an old man who had been beaten close to death by some scrote who said his friend was outside in the car and he thought he was having a heart attack and please could they use his phone to call an ambulance. He was black and blue. I never even received an explanation or apology.


----------



## Lurcherlad

StormyThai said:


> Awesome start to the new year...my dad has got covid...he is jabbed so hopefully things won't get too bad, but at this point I think covid is going to take most of my family


Sorry to hear this 

I hope the jabs protect him from serious illness and he recovers well.


----------



## ForestWomble

Calvine said:


> Door-to-door vaccination effort considered in bid to reach unjabbed - reports | The Independent
> 
> This is being ''trialled'' in some areas. Not sure I would be happy to let strangers in, were I on my own.


Thank you
I'd read about that and I'm not sure how I feel about it, it's one thing having your GP or someone arrange a home visit, but that, as has been said is open to abuse. 
There is something else about it that makes me feel very uneasy but I don't know why.


----------



## £54etgfb6

MollySmith said:


> Needle phobia is awful isn't it? Me too, as we've said elsewhere I'm sure. I have many friends who are worried by it and the wait does make it worse. I was okay with my second vaccine but got the wobbles about my booster as I waited.
> 
> I had my suspicions. My inability to carry a pregnancy was down my immune system but it wasn't correctly on my records as the private IVF clinic diagnosed it. I don't take anything for it as I'm not longer trying to be a parent but it's still a condition.
> 
> I had been careful thankfully until then, but I was going to the shops albeit masked up and all the precautions because my husband is vulnerable due to his meds. I do go to the shops here when essential now but vigilant in what I do and click collect with local shops.


Waiting causes me to _think_ which causes me to _panic_ but conversely, surprise medical procedures also cause me to panic so it is a lose-lose for me. I went to get my flu jab so was already stressed and the nurse kindly told me I could have my covid booster (despite the receptionist staff telling me I wasn't eligible 15 mins prior). Since I had not mentally prepared myself I had a big freak out.

I'm glad you know of your vulnerability status now. It is frustrating when medical information is not shared seamlessly throughout the NHS (and private services). In Scotland (not sure about England) GPs and hospitals use different patient databases and so the GP has no way to check any proceedings that have occurred for a patient through the hospital system unless they have been cc'd into a letter! Bizarre!!


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Waiting causes me to _think_ which causes me to _panic_ but conversely, surprise medical procedures also cause me to panic so it is a lose-lose for me. I went to get my flu jab so was already stressed and the nurse kindly told me I could have my covid booster (despite the receptionist staff telling me I wasn't eligible 15 mins prior). Since I had not mentally prepared myself I had a big freak out.
> 
> I'm glad you know of your vulnerability status now. It is frustrating when medical information is not shared seamlessly throughout the NHS (and private services). In Scotland (not sure about England) GPs and hospitals use different patient databases and so the GP has no way to check any proceedings that have occurred for a patient through the hospital system unless they have been cc'd into a letter! Bizarre!!


In Hungary all your medical records are not only on computer but you are given a print out of every illness, treatment, procedures medication etc you had/been given whilst in hospital. When you go back to the hospital or to your GP you just hand him the information.


----------



## rona

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary all your medical records are not only on computer but you are given a print out of every illness, treatment, procedures medication etc you had/been given whilst in hospital. When you go back to the hospital or to your GP you just hand him the information.


I'm sure this is what was attempted to be set up here several years ago at a cost of millions of pounds. It's just that I'm not sure if the person/people setting it up, understood how computers work!


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> In Hungary all your medical records are not only on computer but you are given a print out of every illness, treatment, procedures medication etc you had/been given whilst in hospital. When you go back to the hospital or to your GP you just hand him the information.


 I had both vaccinations done at my own GP practice. When I went for the second one, he actually asked me ''Is this your second?''. I found that rather odd as he presumably had my details in front of him. I never got a vaccination card with date and batch number either.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I had both vaccinations done at my own GP practice. When I went for the second one, he actually asked me ''Is this your second?''. I found that rather odd as he presumably had my details in front of him. I never got a vaccination card with date and batch number either.


I applied online to be vaccinated and the details were then given to my GP and the village Mayor who arranged transport and also helped anyone who didn't have internet to apply.. I had both my vaccinations done at the clinic in the next but one village to mine. After the second one I was given a paper with all the details on it. For my booster jab again I applied online. That was done at the General Hospital in my nearest city. I was given another piece of paper which along with the first one I took to my local government office to be replaced with a plastic card.


----------



## catz4m8z

ForestWomble said:


> I'd read about that and I'm not sure how I feel about it, it's one thing having your GP or someone arrange a home visit, but that, as has been said is open to abuse.
> There is something else about it that makes me feel very uneasy but I don't know why.


Not sure what the answer would be in that case.... if they do go door to door its very unlikely to be your GP I imagine given the current state of GP services. More likely to be nurses hired specifically for that job. 
And if people have mental health problems that prevent them from having somebody in their home as well as being unable to go out then....idk!
Its a tricky one.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I'm sure this is what was attempted to be set up here several years ago at a cost of millions of pounds. It's just that I'm not sure if the person/people setting it up, understood how computers work!


It sort of happens here. Each time I've been in hospital or seen the consultant I'm given a printout and a copy is sent to my GP. 
What I am having difficulty with is the Gloucester hospital sending an update to the Birmingham hospital where I had the tumour removed in 2020, about the operations on the leg and subsequent check ups. They know they are supposed to be sending results and often do but it's patchy. So I usually send them an email just to make sure they do know what's going on so they can request anything from the Gloucester hospital if needs be.


----------



## Blackadder

> Virus panic: First case of 'flurona'- Covid and flu merge to form horror double infection.


The media just can't help themselves! Of course when you read the article the details don't reflect the dramatic headline 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/scie...ona-israel-coronavirus-and-flu-pandemic-fears


----------



## ForestWomble

catz4m8z said:


> Not sure what the answer would be in that case.... if they do go door to door its very unlikely to be your GP I imagine given the current state of GP services. More likely to be nurses hired specifically for that job.
> And if people have mental health problems that prevent them from having somebody in their home as well as being unable to go out then....idk!
> Its a tricky one.


Oh no, I'd never expect the GP themselves to turn up at your house, by GP I just meant the practise would arrange it, be that a nurse from the practise itself, or a specific vaccination team, but it would all be arranged through yourself. This door-to-door thing is something else all together. Unless the actual process is different than it sounds (i.e. someone doesn't just turn up unexpected).
As you say, it's a tricky one.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Oh no, I'd never expect the GP themselves to turn up at your house, by GP I just meant the practise would arrange it, be that a nurse from the practise itself, or a specific vaccination team, but it would all be arranged through yourself. This door-to-door thing is something else all together. Unless the actual process is different than it sounds (i.e. someone doesn't just turn up unexpected).
> As you say, it's a tricky one.


I agree … it has to be arranged via a GP surgery to ensure people know it's going to be an official vaccinator.

They would need ID of course, and the patient (or their helper) knows when they are coming and to check that.

Otherwise, it's ripe for abuse by scammers.


----------



## MollySmith

Well somehow or another my relative made it over with children and husband from Singapore. I am hiding under a duvet until they leave.


----------



## Calvine

Blackadder said:


> The media just can't help themselves! Of course when you read the article the details don't reflect the dramatic headline
> 
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/scie...ona-israel-coronavirus-and-flu-pandemic-fears


 Flurona sounds like a new margarine to me, maybe an ultra-low fat one. They can't help themselves, you're right.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Right. I have a small issue I am wrestling with. I'm wrestling now as it had gone out of my head until we got another invitation for the same date (which is ironic given that we have been nowhere really for months and months).

A couple of months ago, it was agreed that there would be a family meet up for husband's family. Many of the rellies live in Wales, we are meeting in Chippenham apparently.

However, given the current rules in Wales, it feels like it doesn't sit right with me. If we were meeting in Wales, we obviously wouldn't be able to go as there's more than six of us from six households - but because it's in England it's okay for them to travel here and us all to be in the restaurant.

I know I'm a misery guts, I do. I feel like rule manipulation is part of the reason we are in the pickle we are in now.

Urgh! Why can't even just a planned lunch be straightforward? Double urgh. Am I going to say I'm not going, so once again I'm the "excuse" because of work? Hmmm. What do you think? Anyone here live in Wales? How do you feel about travelling to England for a Sunday lunch? Is it accepted/acceptable? All opinions welcome (including "you are such a misery guts, just shut up and go")


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Right. I have a small issue I am wrestling with. I'm wrestling now as it had gone out of my head until we got another invitation for the same date (which is ironic given that we have been nowhere really for months and months).
> 
> A couple of months ago, it was agreed that there would be a family meet up for husband's family. Many of the rellies live in Wales, we are meeting in Chippenham apparently.
> 
> However, given the current rules in Wales, it feels like it doesn't sit right with me. If we were meeting in Wales, we obviously wouldn't be able to go as there's more than six of us from six households - but because it's in England it's okay for them to travel here and us all to be in the restaurant.
> 
> I know I'm a misery guts, I do. I feel like rule manipulation is part of the reason we are in the pickle we are in now.
> 
> Urgh! Why can't even just a planned lunch be straightforward? Double urgh. Am I going to say I'm not going, so once again I'm the "excuse" because of work? Hmmm. What do you think? Anyone here live in Wales? How do you feel about travelling to England for a Sunday lunch? Is it accepted/acceptable? All opinions welcome (including "you are such a misery guts, just shut up and go")


I empathise, it's a tough one. Having not been out much myself, I would also be wrestling with it. The rules are what they are, so I would focus on your feelings. It may be that the rules in England change before you meet.

If you went, what would make you comfortable, given your job which is important to you - and your mental health too? Would LFT tests be good? You can't make folk do them but you can ask if they may consider it. Depending on when it is, can you meet outside? Can it be delayed until you can gather outdoors?

Only you and your husband know the family and possible reasons, behaviour and actions. If you are uncertain, it is not being a misery guts! You have a tolerance level and it maybe that you are more comfortable with other situations than indoors with family right now. Your experiences which are very up close with Covid are very valid and based on fact (many of us here, myself included can be informed by second hand knowledge) and that's important. If you think it risky and you'd be on edge then you have every reason to say not right now with clear evidence or to offer an alternative. Yes, we learn to live with this, but we also need to accept tolerances and flexibility.

Does that help at all?


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Right. I have a small issue I am wrestling with. I'm wrestling now as it had gone out of my head until we got another invitation for the same date (which is ironic given that we have been nowhere really for months and months).
> 
> A couple of months ago, it was agreed that there would be a family meet up for husband's family. Many of the rellies live in Wales, we are meeting in Chippenham apparently.
> 
> However, given the current rules in Wales, it feels like it doesn't sit right with me. If we were meeting in Wales, we obviously wouldn't be able to go as there's more than six of us from six households - but because it's in England it's okay for them to travel here and us all to be in the restaurant.
> 
> I know I'm a misery guts, I do. I feel like rule manipulation is part of the reason we are in the pickle we are in now.
> 
> Urgh! Why can't even just a planned lunch be straightforward? Double urgh. Am I going to say I'm not going, so once again I'm the "excuse" because of work? Hmmm. What do you think? Anyone here live in Wales? How do you feel about travelling to England for a Sunday lunch? Is it accepted/acceptable? All opinions welcome (including "you are such a misery guts, just shut up and go")


I was watching the news earlier and it seems loads of folk crossed the boarder for NYE it's not illegal and makes little sense. I think if you want to go and feel comfortable do. I know what you mean I find going out so stressful at the moment I'm just not bothering.


----------



## Lurcherlad

@Mrs Funkin If you feel uneasy going because of the potential risk to you (and your patients) then just say you are ill and that it's best you stay away.

You should please yourself and let them think what they like tbh.

If, however, you actually feel OK to meet up but are uneasy about the rules, you are complying yourself as the location is in England


----------



## cheekyscrip

If you are not happy to go just excuse yourself.
Anything like cold or work is fine. 

If you had a cold you would not go? 
It does not sit right to have a big meet up no matter if legal or not.
Might be legal but not very wise.

It should have been postponed till at least three months from now hoping the wave of Omicron will pass. 
I currently refuse anything which is not outdoors and with one friend at a time.

Only our kids are visiting.

Currently on the Rock is very much like in UK.


----------



## Cleo38

Mrs Funkin said:


> Right. I have a small issue I am wrestling with. I'm wrestling now as it had gone out of my head until we got another invitation for the same date (which is ironic given that we have been nowhere really for months and months).
> 
> A couple of months ago, it was agreed that there would be a family meet up for husband's family. Many of the rellies live in Wales, we are meeting in Chippenham apparently.
> 
> However, given the current rules in Wales, it feels like it doesn't sit right with me. If we were meeting in Wales, we obviously wouldn't be able to go as there's more than six of us from six households - but because it's in England it's okay for them to travel here and us all to be in the restaurant.
> 
> I know I'm a misery guts, I do. I feel like rule manipulation is part of the reason we are in the pickle we are in now.
> 
> Urgh! Why can't even just a planned lunch be straightforward? Double urgh. Am I going to say I'm not going, so once again I'm the "excuse" because of work? Hmmm. What do you think? Anyone here live in Wales? How do you feel about travelling to England for a Sunday lunch? Is it accepted/acceptable? All opinions welcome (including "you are such a misery guts, just shut up and go")


Personally I'd go. I think you deserve a nice day out & shouldn't feel guilty about it. Sometimes we put stuff off but things can happen & it means we don't get that chance again.

But ... if you really don't want to go then don't. You shouldn't feel guilty about any choice you make


----------



## Jobeth

What do you want to do and what would you feel comfortable with?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I just don't know! I don't care what they think of me to be honest, I barely know half of them. I don't know most of them well enough to know if they will do an LFT or not prior to meeting up. 

I do know I am such a rule follower that I am struggling with the manipulation of rules - they're getting around it by travelling to England. I think that's my biggest issue. I know I am complying with the guidance - but they wouldn't be and yes, I know I can only be responsible for myself but it feels wrong. 

I will await any new rule changes - as Wales have been pretty tough in their rule setting - and if it stays as it is now, I may well cry off. 

The other thing I've been invited to doesn't make me any less nervous as it's a birthday celebration, where we will all go to the person's house for drinks and then walk to a pub for Sunday lunch and I think there will be quite a lot of people invited. We didn't go to a NYE house gathering last night as it was around 20 people and we didn't feel comfortable. 

Thank you all for your thoughts  I wish I wasn't such an over-thinker! I drive myself mad.


----------



## pinklizzy

@Mrs Funkin We are right on the Welsh border and so some of my colleagues live in England which makes all the different rules very difficult to keep straight! 
I know a lot of people were planning to go 'over the border' to celebrate NYE in England as nightclubs closed here on Boxing Day.
There isn't the same restriction on travel as there was in the lockdowns but personally I would probably feel a similar way to you.
Our staff Christmas party was held in England (not to circumvent any rules, just more that it was a nice restaurant ) I didn't go because the then lack of mask restrictions made me feel uncomfortable.
That was a long ramble to say that basically I'd feel the same but I also know that a lot of people feel that I'm overly cautious in terms of covid (and yet was still the first person at work to actually catch it :Bag)


----------



## Lurcherlad

Tbh @Mrs Funkin, the first lot really don't sound like they're worth stressing over so I'd probably make my excuses and do something that I'd actually look forward to and enjoy instead


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Hehe @Lurcherlad I must confess I'm wishing husband hadn't said yes to the first invite


----------



## MollySmith

@StormyThai how is your dad? How's you? No need to answer if you'd prefer not to.


----------



## StormyThai

MollySmith said:


> @StormyThai how is your dad? How's you? No need to answer if you'd prefer not to.


Thank you for asking 
Dad is doing ok at the moment, he has a bad sore throat very tired and a bit of shortness of breath if he does too much, but overall he says he is holding up.
We had a nice chat earlier so I am feeling a bit more positive now.


----------



## cheekyscrip

I think if anyone feels uncomfortable then they should not go.
This Omicron wave in South Africa is declining. It will peak and go down in UK too in matter of months if not weeks.

This virus has high transmission and even party indoor puts you at risk.

Then all depends on your health and those you live with and need to protect.

My OH had an operation before Xmas so I am very cautious and even our kids stay in.
It will get better so now just matter of being patient.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> Hehe @Lurcherlad I must confess I'm wishing husband hadn't said yes to the first invite


I know the feeling … meeting up with the in-laws today ….


----------



## MollySmith

StormyThai said:


> Thank you for asking
> Dad is doing ok at the moment, he has a bad sore throat very tired and a bit of shortness of breath if he does too much, but overall he says he is holding up.
> We had a nice chat earlier so I am feeling a bit more positive now.


I'm pleased to hear this and that you've got the chance to speak with him too


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> I know the feeling … meeting up with the in-laws today ….


I hope it goes okay!


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> I hope it goes okay!


It was actually quite pleasant 

I think it helped that MIL couldn't participate as she won't be vaccinated … she puts everyone on edge


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> It was actually quite pleasant
> 
> I think it helped that MIL couldn't participate as she won't be vaccinated … she puts everyone on edge


Small wins maybe?!


----------



## Arny

Mrs Funkin said:


> Right. I have a small issue I am wrestling with. I'm wrestling now as it had gone out of my head until we got another invitation for the same date (which is ironic given that we have been nowhere really for months and months).
> 
> A couple of months ago, it was agreed that there would be a family meet up for husband's family. Many of the rellies live in Wales, we are meeting in Chippenham apparently.
> 
> However, given the current rules in Wales, it feels like it doesn't sit right with me. If we were meeting in Wales, we obviously wouldn't be able to go as there's more than six of us from six households - but because it's in England it's okay for them to travel here and us all to be in the restaurant.
> 
> I know I'm a misery guts, I do. I feel like rule manipulation is part of the reason we are in the pickle we are in now.
> 
> Urgh! Why can't even just a planned lunch be straightforward? Double urgh. Am I going to say I'm not going, so once again I'm the "excuse" because of work? Hmmm. What do you think? Anyone here live in Wales? How do you feel about travelling to England for a Sunday lunch? Is it accepted/acceptable? All opinions welcome (including "you are such a misery guts, just shut up and go")


If the rule bit is the only thing bothering you I'd go personally, even if it were the side of the family that's now disowned us!
We had family come for Christmas from Wales and although they arrived before the restrictions (and had planned to come before they were announced) they still would have come and us be happy to have them despite me sticking completely to all previous rules. Before I could see a purpose for the majority of restrictions but at this point there won't be much halting omicron, with what they've currently implemented anyway.


----------



## Jesthar

Had my booster this morning, Moderna. Barely felt it, and feel OK so far. Vaccination station was very quiet, one chap just leaving and no one else came in whilst I was there.


----------



## Siskin

Just heard from a friend who is in his late 50’s all three jabs and in good health, has got Covid and had no idea.
He had a family meet up after Christmas and everyone did lateral flow tests and were all negative. The following day his daughter said she had a bit of a sniffle, a few days after that he too had a sniffle, but nothing more then that. A day or two later he did another lft as he was seeing someone and found it was positive, checked it with a PCR test and that was positive. He feels absolutely fine.


----------



## Cully

@Mrs Funkin , never mind what anyone else does. Just follow your own common sense, as always, and do what feels right for yourself. If you're going to get yourself in a state worrying about it then it's not worth it.


----------



## Cully

Getting a bit jittery now about going for my MRI on Sunday what with the increases in cases now. I'm half expecting a text or letter cancelling it. It's not just the hospital, I'm concerned about travelling too as it's a fair distance to be in a confined space (taxi) with a stranger.
I'm probably over thinking it all but knowing that doesn't stop me worrying, sigh!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

@Cully I actually think Sunday is the best chance of it being quieter, I'd be more likely to go on a weekend for an appointment. Hope you can ask the taxi driver to wear a mask, you wear yours and a visor too, if you have one.

As for my going to the family thing, I'm very strongly thinking that I won't go...


----------



## Siskin

Cully said:


> Getting a bit jittery now about going for my MRI on Sunday what with the increases in cases now. I'm half expecting a text or letter cancelling it. It's not just the hospital, I'm concerned about travelling too as it's a fair distance to be in a confined space (taxi) with a stranger.
> I'm probably over thinking it all but knowing that doesn't stop me worrying, sigh!


I've got a hospital visit tomorrow afternoon for a check up and a few stitches to be taken out and possibly an X-ray. Given the choice I wouldn't go, but I don't have one as these stitches have been in a bit too long already. 
From what I gather the hospital is functioning ok and there aren't too many Covid patients in, but with omicron being so infectious and people not knowing they have it anything could happen I guess. However I'm not so worried about omicron as it doesn't appear to be so nasty as the Delta version
The MRI's I've had have been very sterile feeling with lots of cleaning going on between patients and plenty of social distancing in waiting rooms. Try to arrive on time rather then too early so you are not waiting around.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> @Cully I actually think Sunday is the best chance of it being quieter, I'd be more likely to go on a weekend for an appointment. Hope you can ask the taxi driver to wear a mask, you wear yours and a visor too, if you have one.
> 
> As for my going to the family thing, I'm very strongly thinking that I won't go...


That's my thinking too, I'm sure my last MRI was on Saturday. Just hoping the poor staff are coping. It's such a busy hospital. The William Harvey is one of those hospitals using a Nightingale annexe for covid patients.

Well if your mind is leaning towards not going to the get together, then trust those instincts. You won't go far wrong.


----------



## ForestWomble

Sorry to hear you are worrying @Cully, I've got 'planned maintenance' appointment via the landlord later this week, I asked if it can be postponed as I'm really not happy having a workman here, but they've refused, so I'm now really anxious.


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> I've got a hospital visit tomorrow afternoon for a check up and a few stitches to be taken out and possibly an X-ray. Given the choice I wouldn't go, but I don't have one as these stitches have been in a bit too long already.
> From what I gather the hospital is functioning ok and there aren't too many Covid patients in, but with omicron being so infectious and people not knowing they have it anything could happen I guess. However I'm not so worried about omicron as it doesn't appear to be so nasty as the Delta version
> The MRI's I've had have been very sterile feeling with lots of cleaning going on between patients and plenty of social distancing in waiting rooms. Try to arrive on time rather then too early so you are not waiting around.


Good luck tomorrow, I hope it all goes well.
Yes I would prefer not to go but don't know how long I'd wait if I cancelled, and the situation could be even worse in a few months time.
Cheerful soul aren't I!!


----------



## Cully

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear you are worrying @Cully, I've got 'planned maintenance' appointment via the landlord later this week, I asked if it can be postponed as I'm really not happy having a workman here, but they've refused, so I'm now really anxious.


Be firm with them. No mask, no entry. Your home, your rules.
Last year I had a workman call, no mask. But I let him in when I asked him about it and was told he was exempt.
Then his foreman turned up with no mask too.
When I challenged him and asked, sarcastically, if he had asthma too he laughed and said all his firm had asthma. Ha bloomin ha!!
So stupid he didn't even hide the pack of ciggies in his hand.


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> Getting a bit jittery now about going for my MRI on Sunday what with the increases in cases now. I'm half expecting a text or letter cancelling it. It's not just the hospital, I'm concerned about travelling too as it's a fair distance to be in a confined space (taxi) with a stranger.
> I'm probably over thinking it all but knowing that doesn't stop me worrying, sigh!


Hugs. I can empathise. If it helps, I've been in a few taxis and it's in the drivers best interest as self employed to be careful too. I suggest wearing a mask, pay via an online service if they have one or contactless and use sanitizer on your hands. Several here had plastic screens and I'm sure if you mention on booking they'd appreciate it. I'll bet they get tired of folk who don't care so much.

I hope it goes well as it can be.


----------



## Jobeth

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear you are worrying @Cully, I've got 'planned maintenance' appointment via the landlord later this week, I asked if it can be postponed as I'm really not happy having a workman here, but they've refused, so I'm now really anxious.


I'm not sure if this will help - I work close contact in an enclosed space with children (so they don't wear masks) but always make sure that a window is open for ventilation. So far I've been ok even when they've coughed over me or tested positive. When I've had workmen round my house I open the vents above the windows and then ventilate the house after they've gone. You can wipe round afterwards as well.


----------



## ForestWomble

Jobeth said:


> I'm not sure if this will help - I work close contact in an enclosed space with children (so they don't wear masks) but always make sure that a window is open for ventilation. So far I've been ok even when they've coughed over me or tested positive. When I've had workmen round my house I open the vents above the windows and then ventilate the house after they've gone. You can wipe round afterwards as well.


Thank you. I open the window vents or/and the window whenever someone has been over ever since the beginning of this, it just worries me as you never know how careful the workman you get is, some wear masks and gloves, others don't.
As @Cully said I'll have to be firm and not let them in unless wearing a mask. 
I'll make sure to wipe round after too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to hear you are worrying @Cully, I've got 'planned maintenance' appointment via the landlord later this week, I asked if it can be postponed as I'm really not happy having a workman here, but they've refused, so I'm now really anxious.


Maybe call Citizens Advice and ask if they can force you to allow access.

Given the circumstances, I think you should be able to postpone any non- emergency repairs.

Do you know what they plan to do?

Have the window open in the taxi too


----------



## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> Just heard from a friend who is in his late 50's all three jabs and in good health, has got Covid and had no idea.
> He had a family meet up after Christmas and everyone did lateral flow tests and were all negative. The following day his daughter said she had a bit of a sniffle, a few days after that he too had a sniffle, but nothing more then that. A day or two later he did another lft as he was seeing someone and found it was positive, checked it with a PCR test and that was positive. He feels absolutely fine.


Glad he is OK - sounds like the vaccines are doing their job


----------



## Mrs Funkin

We know someone who is a tradesman who is apparently exempt. There’s another word I’d use for him…and if he was coming to do work in my house he’d be wearing a mask. 

I went to get my car from the garage the other day. Sign outside to wear a mask, popped one on. I go in there to the office bit to pay, neither staff member wearing one. I asked why did I have to wear one to protect them, but they don’t wear one to protect me? They clearly had no response besides, “it’s really hard to wear one all day”. My response was that I wear one for 12 hours at a time - not including any other PPE - and have no choice. My second response was that I’d ask the owner what he thought about it (I know him, too). Pppppfffttt. 

In other news, hospital staff who refuse to be vaccinated are going to be dealt with by the legal team, not by their managers (direct or higher), so I wonder how many staff we will lose?


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe call Citizens Advice and ask if they can force you to allow access.
> 
> Given the circumstances, I think you should be able to postpone any non- emergency repairs.
> 
> Do you know what they plan to do?
> 
> Have the window open in the taxi too


I think they can only insist on access if the work they are doing for safety reasons.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> I think they can only insist on access if the work they are doing for safety reasons.


They don't really have a right to that either, although it makes sense from a tenant's point of view to allow access if there is a safety issue. I know landlords who have had to go to court to get access to do gas checks which is totally in the tenant's interest.

If they and you wear a mask and your place is well ventilated, you should be ok.


----------



## MilleD

I went to the dentist yesterday for a CT scan. The place is split into two sites and I didn't know which one I was at, so went to one where they advised me I was at the other.

So off I toddled to go and sit in a waiting room with four other people in it, only to be told I was at the original place I went to. Talk about unnecessary exposure


----------



## MilleD

Mrs Funkin said:


> In other news, hospital staff who refuse to be vaccinated are going to be dealt with by the legal team, not by their managers (direct or higher), so I wonder how many staff we will lose?


That's a horribly impersonal way of dealing with it


----------



## catz4m8z

Mrs Funkin said:


> In other news, hospital staff who refuse to be vaccinated are going to be dealt with by the legal team, not by their managers (direct or higher), so I wonder how many staff we will lose?


well, I know of at least 1 this year who might be lost permanently because they didnt get a vaccine (despite working somewhere they would be exposed to covid patients regularly)....such a needless way to go.:Banghead
I dont envy them having to deal with the legal teams though, my experience of them in the past has never been a good one.

Numbers still rising in my hospital too. They were fairly static for the last part of the year but in the last month have risen by about 20% a week, every week.
Hopefully it wont be enough to really cause a crisis but its going to have a knock on effect on elective surgeries and other services. Thats def one of the frustrating aspects of all this...how other illnesses/diseases are 'ignored' while we cope. Alot of specialist services are being redeployed or shut down to help carry the 'weight' so to speak leaving many people without the care and support they also need.:Shifty
They really isnt an easy answer though. *sigh*


----------



## Magyarmum

Love it!

https://www.france24.com/en/france/...ctCampaignType=CAMPAIGN_MAIL&actSource=509606

*Macron's vow to 'piss off' the unvaccinated sparks outrage among opponents*


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MilleD said:


> That's a horribly impersonal way of dealing with it


I am not sure, I think it's worse as an employee to have to be forced out by a direct line manager who is your colleague? Let's be honest, if you've gone this long without being jabbed, a conversation with your manager isn't going to change your mind is it? I dunno, maybe it would. I'm not in the situation so I don't know what I'd do.

I still feel it's wrong to force staff to have the vaccination by sheer threat of losing everything they've worked for. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

We are up about 30% in my hospital, the new numbers come out each Wednesday, so I'll be in to the latest tomorrow.

Oh I'm sick and blooming tired of it!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh and as an aside, we have declined to attend the family lunch. We just don’t feel right about going for all kinds of reasons. I shall also be declining the other lunch too, even though I’d like to go I just can’t. There will be lots of people, many of whom have had covid so are a bit laissez faire now, as they’ve survived. 

I’ll get it at some point I am sure but I am trying not to! Not least because we are a small team at work and I don’t want to dump an absence in them.


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe call Citizens Advice and ask if they can force you to allow access.
> 
> Given the circumstances, I think you should be able to postpone any non- emergency repairs.
> 
> Do you know what they plan to do?
> 
> Have the window open in the taxi too


Yes, boiler check, so I understand that needs to be done, but as I wasn't asking to cancel, just to put it off for a few weeks and I'm not using it for heating anyway .... ah well, I guess it at least gets it out of the way.


----------



## Lurcherlad

ForestWomble said:


> Yes, boiler check, so I understand that needs to be done, but as I wasn't asking to cancel, just to put it off for a few weeks and I'm not using it for heating anyway .... ah well, I guess it at least gets it out of the way.


Well, I think you could put your foot down … but as you say, it will be out of the way.


----------



## ForestWomble

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, I think you could put your foot down … but as you say, it will be out of the way.


I wish I could postpone but the person I spoke to refused, I'll just have to be brave and refuse entry if the workman doesn't have a mask.
Keeping fingers crossed it'll be fine.


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> I wish I could postpone but the person I spoke to refused, I'll just have to be brave and refuse entry if the workman doesn't have a mask.
> Keeping fingers crossed it'll be fine.


I got the impression from the news and PMQs that Boris said we're going to be back to normal, apparently this plan B ends on 26th Jan, so that could mean no mandatory mask wearing from then (it wasn't clear what it meant to me!), so maybe it's best to have the boiler checked whilst you can refer to government guidance?

I hope all goes well.


----------



## Siskin

Went to the hospital this afternoon to have the stitches taken out on the knee where the infection had been excised. Unfortunately under the scab that had formed was what I thought was pus, but I was told it was slough (pronounced sluff) and is the same as a scab but in non dried out form. Consultant came and had a look and agreed it was slough, but got the nurse to take a swab to check there’s nothing else going on. A micro bacterial gel was put into the wound and a dressing put on. I’ve been given the gel and some more dressings to redress on Friday and Monday and back to see the hospital again next week to check on progress.
I really thought this infected area had been dealt with, but it’s still not healing. I guess that’s down to the radiotherapy again.


Everyone in the hospital was wearing masks and anointing their hands with sanitiser and avoiding everyone nearby. I asked the nurse if Covid had affected her area which is an outpatients, and she said there were some staff off, but they weren’t too bad. Felt quite safe there as it wasn’t crowded and it’s a very open airy place


----------



## Siskin

Just had this sent to me which raised a smile


----------



## Lurcherlad

@Siskin hope you're on the home straight now


----------



## ForestWomble

MollySmith said:


> I got the impression from the news and PMQs that Boris said we're going to be back to normal, apparently this plan B ends on 26th Jan, so that could mean no mandatory mask wearing from then (it wasn't clear what it meant to me!), so maybe it's best to have the boiler checked whilst you can refer to government guidance?
> 
> I hope all goes well.


Oh gosh I hope not. 
But yes, sounds like a good idea to get things done while we still have guidance.


----------



## Dimwit

Siskin said:


> Just had this sent to me which raised a smile
> 
> View attachment 482268


Wow, that's racist.


----------



## Cully

I must say I'm a bit concerned now after watching the news tonight and hearing how the latest guidance is based on the number of cases and potential spread and effect but only amongst younger age groups. There is no real data about the affect Omicron will have in older age groups yet. As it's now spreading to older people there's the worrying prospect of more hospital beds being taken up by them and the consequences that go with that situation.
It hasn't eased my concern any, quite the opposite.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm concerned as now if you are asymptomatic and doing LFTs regularly and get a positive LFT you don't do a PCR. 

So, to that end we:

1) can fraudulently record a fake positive LFT to get a week off work

2) now will not get real numbers? Or will we get LFTs as the daily numbers?

3) get a positive LFT but it's not the result we want, so we record a negative instead?

URGH! I don't know what to say.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm concerned as now if you are asymptomatic and doing LFTs regularly and get a positive LFT you don't do a PCR.
> 
> So, to that end we:
> 
> 1) can fraudulently record a fake positive LFT to get a week off work
> 
> 2) now will not get real numbers? Or will we get LFTs as the daily numbers?
> 
> 3) get a positive LFT but it's not the result we want, so we record a negative instead?
> 
> URGH! I don't know what to say.


No wonder people just throw their hands up in the air and do their own thing! I sympathise Mrs F.


----------



## lullabydream

Just found out a friend of mine has COVID. Felt I'll from Christmas day, but declared her body was a miracle and immune system with no vaccination was suffice. Then her messages went quieter and quieter ..currently in hospital with COVID pneumonia. She's only 30 with two young children. On CPAP machine 20 hours per day, and in a lot of pain. She's usually healthy. No underlying conditions, not a smoker or drinker either not over weight.

Then there is my sister and my nephew who have tested positive for COVID but other than cold like symptoms nothing much wrong with them. Both are vaccinated and boosted. Although will say this is the second time both have had COVID, and last time they felt poorly for 3 days.


----------



## catz4m8z

Dimwit said:


> Wow, that's racist.


yup....
I shouldnt of laughed....but I did.:Shy



Cully said:


> There is no real data about the affect Omicron will have in older age groups yet. As it's now spreading to older people there's the worrying prospect of more hospital beds being taken up by them and the consequences that go with that situation.


In my hospital the covid patients are made up of roughly 80% unvaccinated. So at least it seems like the vaccinations are def providing alot of protection. I imagine older/vulnerable people will still be in a much higher risk group though, like with flu.

Read an article the other day that said it looked like some people were naturally immune to covid:Wideyed, lucky them! I believe this as my BFF still hasnt caught it. Despite working 6 days a week with covid patients and having every other member of staff in her tiny windowless office catch it she still hasnt come down with it. I wish my immune system was that good!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So sorry to read that @lullabydream


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> So sorry to read that @lullabydream


Thank you..I never knew she was unvaccinated I just presumed she would be. It's definitely a weird one to mull over in one's brain!


----------



## Cully

catz4m8z said:


> imagine older/vulnerable people will still be in a much higher risk group though, like with flu.


I will feel much happier once (if) hospital admissions from covid decrease significantly. Doctors are already saying overall patient care is not as good as it should be due mainly to staff shortages.


----------



## Cully

lullabydream said:


> Just found out a friend of mine has COVID. Felt I'll from Christmas day, but declared her body was a miracle and immune system with no vaccination was suffice. Then her messages went quieter and quieter ..currently in hospital with COVID pneumonia. She's only 30 with two young children. On CPAP machine 20 hours per day, and in a lot of pain. She's usually healthy. No underlying conditions, not a smoker or drinker either not over weight.
> 
> Then there is my sister and my nephew who have tested positive for COVID but other than cold like symptoms nothing much wrong with them. Both are vaccinated and boosted. Although will say this is the second time both have had COVID, and last time they felt poorly for 3 days.


Sorry to hear that, I hope she makes a good recovery.
My unvaccinated son was ill with covid but fortunately didn't need hospital treatment. He was lucky but is still suffering with breathing problems.
My other son had both jabs and caught covid from his child. He's back at work now just one day a week but suffering from long covid.


----------



## Magyarmum

Cully said:


> Sorry to hear that, I hope she makes a good recovery.
> My unvaccinated son was ill with covid but fortunately didn't need hospital treatment. He was lucky but is still suffering with breathing problems.
> My other son had both jabs and caught covid from his child. He's back at work now just one day a week but suffering from long covid.


I only get the US news on the TV here, but from what I understand doctors over there are becoming increasingly concerned about "long Covid" particularly amongst children. Apparently it's far more common than was originally thought.


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> Yes, boiler check, so I understand that needs to be done, but as I wasn't asking to cancel, just to put it off for a few weeks and I'm not using it for heating anyway .... ah well, I guess it at least gets it out of the way.


 I see your point; but from the landlord's point of view, I believe they have to do a gas safety check once a year on all appliances and get a certificate. If he didn't and something went wrong, maybe he would be in a lot of trouble. I don't rent out property, but someone I know does, and that was the impression I got from him (rightly or wrongly). Someone on here will no doubt know from first hand experience.


----------



## David C

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm concerned as now if you are asymptomatic and doing LFTs regularly and get a positive LFT you don't do a PCR.
> 
> So, to that end we:
> 
> 1) can fraudulently record a fake positive LFT to get a week off work
> 
> 2) now will not get real numbers? Or will we get LFTs as the daily numbers?
> 
> 3) get a positive LFT but it's not the result we want, so we record a negative instead?
> 
> URGH! I don't know what to say.


Ha....someone else who said exactly what I did last night. I think this government lives in la la land.


----------



## Magyarmum

David C said:


> Ha....someone else who said exactly what I did last night. I think this government lives in la la land.


Not a problem that arises in Hungary because we don't have free tests. Nobody is going to test themselves frequently when you have to pay nearly £40 per test!


----------



## ForestWomble

Calvine said:


> I see your point; but from the landlord's point of view, I believe they have to do a gas safety check once a year on all appliances and get a certificate. If he didn't and something went wrong, maybe he would be in a lot of trouble. I don't rent out property, but someone I know does, and that was the impression I got from him (rightly or wrongly). Someone on here will no doubt know from first hand experience.


It's done now, so that's that for another year, glad it's over and done with, but feeling uptight and worried now as the workman kept on getting too close to me and while he did wear a mask it was too loose and kept slipping down.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Wow. We are watching a National Geographic documentary called The First Wave about Covid in NY. It's on Disney+ of all places. 

I'd like everyone who doesn't believe the pandemic is real and those who don't want to be vaccinated to watch this. 

I've no words and I watched a lot of dead bodies be wheeled past my department in the height of the pandemic.


----------



## MissKittyKat

wrong thread


----------



## mrs phas

So much for the great unkempt haystacks statement, right back at the begining, quoting the figure of 20, 000 dying, if we left it to herd immunity

BBC News - Covid: UK records more than 150,000 deaths
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59923936


----------



## Blackadder

> More than 150,000 people in the UK have now died within 28 days of a positive Covid test since the pandemic began.


Does that actually mean anything? "Within 28 days of a positive test"????

Did they die because of Covid, die due to another disease with complications from covid or die from some other reason but tested +ve for covid?


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> Does that actually mean anything? "Within 28 days of a positive test"????
> 
> Did they die because of Covid, die due to another disease with complications from covid or die from some other reason but tested +ve for covid?


That's the thing. I think this was discussed near the beginning of the thread and it was said that this country counted deaths if someone had Covid when they died say of a heart attack or cancer and some other countries didn't do this.


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> So much for the great unkempt haystacks statement, right back at the begining, quoting the figure of 20, 000 dying, if we left it to herd immunity
> 
> BBC News - Covid: UK records more than 150,000 deaths
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59923936


I wasn't paying full attention but I think the local news here said it was the population of Oxford.


----------



## mrs phas

*This *government decided to count deaths, within 28 days of a positive test, as 'a covid death' 
They haven't changed, or redefined, that way of counting, since it was instituted, so it's a consistent 
It doesn't matter if country A B or Z counts deaths a different way, it's the way *this* government decided 
So squabbling over whether a person had a heart problem and a positive test was a 'side road' means nothing, 
or saying
'person x was going to die of cancer anyway' 
doesn't skew the covid figures,
because
it's been done the same way, since it's institution 
After all what good does it do, for anyone, to skew the figures upwards?
Making the figure larger, than reality, just shows the government being more of a cock up than ever (not getting political promise)
Downwards? I would question the veracity alongside you

Therefore, using the death figures, within the 28 days, as decided, 150,000 have died from covid


----------



## Arny

mrs phas said:


> *This *government decided to count deaths, within 28 days of a positive test, as 'a covid death'
> They haven't changed, or redefined, that way of counting, since it was instituted, so it's a consistent


Technically at first it was anyone to died who had a positive test within any timeframe. 
England then at some point aligned with the rest of the uk who were doing within 28 days. A few thousand people were then taken off the figures.

Belgium were counting anyone who died, positive or not, as a covid death! Whether they're still doing that I don't know.
I suppose you could argue that many are dying because of covid whether they have it or not as many aren't getting treatment for other things because of it.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Blackadder said:


> Does that actually mean anything? "Within 28 days of a positive test"????
> 
> Did they die because of Covid, die due to another disease with complications from covid or die from some other reason but tested +ve for covid?


Death certificates have multiple sections and do not simply ask "cause of death". There is the option to write both what _directly_ resulted in the person's death but also to write what conditions/injuries _contributed_ to it. In majority of cases, people dying within 28 days of a positive test but not *directly from *covid (remember a direct death from covid is sepsis and sepsis alone) will have had their death triggered/hastened by having covid. Hope I've explained that well. If you're interested specifically in Covid being the direct cause of death then the government do publish it here alongside other figures: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

We report it the way that we do because covid being a direct cause of death and a factor that precipitates death are equally important and because that is the format death certificates are submitted in. However, I can see why it may seem irrelevant to mention something that happened 28 days prior to death.

I am not a doctor and have never called time of death or written a death certificate. I wouldn't take my words as law but there's a lot of info online regarding it that's very interesting


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> It doesn't matter if country A B or Z counts deaths a different way, it's the way *this* government decided


No, I suppose it doesn't matter unless people are comparing deaths from Covid amongst other countries.


----------



## kimthecat

bmr10 said:


> Death certificates have multiple sections and do not simply ask "cause of death". There is the option to write both what _directly_ resulted in the person's death but also to write what conditions/injuries _contributed_ to it. In majority of cases, people dying within 28 days of a positive test but not *directly from *covid (remember a direct death from covid is sepsis and sepsis alone) will have had their death triggered/hastened by having covid. Hope I've explained that well. If you're interested specifically in Covid being the direct cause of death then the government do publish it here alongside other figures: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths


yes that's true , my dad died of heart failure but he also had diabetes which was put on his death certificate. It would be interesting to know how many deaths were purely Covid and why that was .


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> I wasn't paying full attention but I think the local news here said it was the population of Oxford.


 That would half of my Borough .


----------



## Cully

My mum died of cancer, but on the death certificate it stated cause of death was pneumonia. I've never understood that, when she was riddled with cancer.


----------



## Blackadder

bmr10 said:


> (remember a direct death from covid is sepsis and sepsis alone)


Do you have a link to that info?


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> My mum died of cancer, but on the death certificate it stated cause of death was pneumonia. I've never understood that, when she was riddled with cancer.


 Im sorry to hear that. My mum died of cancer in the 80s . I dont think they put anything else on the death certificate.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Blackadder said:


> Do you have a link to that info?


Sepsis is organ dysfunction due to a dysregulated response to infection which results in an overwhelming immune response and a subsequent immune suppression (though these two results overlap time wise). Sepsis has been redefined many times but here is a recent definition: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968574/

Sepsis is the term for the dysregulated response. Organ failure occurs as a result of this alongside death (usually).

I know this information from my own education in university but here are some links saying the same:
https://www.sepsis.org/sepsisand/coronavirus-covid-19/

https://www.sepsis.org/news/the-connection-between-covid-19-sepsis-and-sepsis-survivors/

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/clinical-care/expert-severe-covid-19-illness-viral-sepsis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8452249/ (if you want a more scientific view).

If you're dying from organ insufficiency/failure due to an infection then you are dying from sepsis.


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> Im sorry to hear that. My mum died of cancer in the 80s . I dont think they put anything else on the death certificate.


Thanks. Yes this was way back in '68.


----------



## mrs phas

Arny said:


> Technically at first it was anyone to died who had a positive test within any timeframe.
> England then at some point aligned with the rest of the uk who were doing within 28 days. A few thousand people were then taken off the figures.


.

You're quite right
Hence why I said it hadn't been changed since it was decided upon (the within 28 day positive thing)

Do I think it's right?
No I don't as, it skews the number of deaths due to delay in cancer or heart treatments, transplants being delayed or any other treatments that could have prolonged or cured the patients involved, by putting covid as primary cause of death
But
That's just my opinion


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> That would half of my Borough .


It's my entire city - all of Cambridge (we're 149,000).

I do think we (as in the media and society) started to talk about this in facts and figures not names. Then I read the sad stories of infections on here and it brings it home that these are people.

My fellow podcast presenter and his wife are in Australia and have Covid. Luckily both are vaccinated but it's worrying.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> It's my entire city - all of Cambridge (we're 149,000).
> 
> I do think we (as in the media and society) started to talk about this in facts and figures not names. Then I read the sad stories of infections on here and it brings it home that these are people.
> .


That's a good point , Molly. I was thinking that myself last night . all the people who have been very sick and those who have lost loved ones .


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> That's a good point , Molly. I was thinking that myself last night . all the people who have been very sick and those who have lost loved ones .


When I hear stories of any disaster the names make it real don't they? Like 9/11 for example or Sarah Everard's murder. Names we don't forget. But I can't think how long it would take to say all those names out loud.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...n-delta-coronavirus-deltacron-mutation-cyprus

*A NEW Covid strain which is a combination of the Delta and Omicron variants has been discovered.*

Named the 'Deltacron' variant, researchers discovered the new strain in Cyprus. Leondios Kostrikis, professor of biological sciences at the University of Cyprus has discovered 25 cases of the new strain. The findings have now been dispatched to GISAID, an international database that tracks viruses which tracks viruses.


----------



## O2.0

Learning more about how covid spreads and how it infects

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-loses-...-192738828.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_15


----------



## Cully

kimthecat said:


> https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...n-delta-coronavirus-deltacron-mutation-cyprus
> 
> *A NEW Covid strain which is a combination of the Delta and Omicron variants has been discovered.*
> 
> Named the 'Deltacron' variant, researchers discovered the new strain in Cyprus. Leondios Kostrikis, professor of biological sciences at the University of Cyprus has discovered 25 cases of the new strain. The findings have now been dispatched to GISAID, an international database that tracks viruses which tracks viruses.


:Arghh:Bag:Bag:Bag


----------



## HarlequinCat

kimthecat said:


> https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...n-delta-coronavirus-deltacron-mutation-cyprus
> 
> *A NEW Covid strain which is a combination of the Delta and Omicron variants has been discovered.*
> 
> Named the 'Deltacron' variant, researchers discovered the new strain in Cyprus. Leondios Kostrikis, professor of biological sciences at the University of Cyprus has discovered 25 cases of the new strain. The findings have now been dispatched to GISAID, an international database that tracks viruses which tracks viruses.





Cully said:


> :Arghh:Bag:Bag:Bag


I'm sure it's nothing to be worried about. This guy explains it well


----------



## MilleD

Calvine said:


> I see your point; but from the landlord's point of view, I believe they have to do a gas safety check once a year on all appliances and get a certificate. If he didn't and something went wrong, maybe he would be in a lot of trouble. I don't rent out property, but someone I know does, and that was the impression I got from him (rightly or wrongly). Someone on here will no doubt know from first hand experience.


If it's for the CP12 checks, a tenant can still refuse access.

If that happens and the CP12 runs out, it is up to the landlord to document any and all requests for access and the reasons why access was refused.

It's all a landlord can do if access is refused - show they made the attempts.

Obviously it makes no sense for a tenant to refuse that (it's for their safety after all), but some do. And currently it's possibly not the best time for people.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> My mum died of cancer, but on the death certificate it stated cause of death was pneumonia. I've never understood that, when she was riddled with cancer.


My mum died of cancer in 2016. There were other things on the cert other than the cancer. Something about calcium levels, and she actually died because she asphyxiated. I'm sure that was on there too.

It was almost as if the cancer was secondary, even though it caused the things that she actually died from.

That was before Covid so I don't think it's anything new.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> My mum died of cancer in 2016. There were other things on the cert other than the cancer. Something about calcium levels, and she actually died because she asphyxiated. I'm sure that was on there too.
> 
> It was almost as if the cancer was secondary, even though it caused the things that she actually died from.
> 
> That was before Covid so I don't think it's anything new.


Yes there is no doubt if she hadn't had cancer then she wouldn't have had the pneumonia that she succumbed to. I think lots of cancers end this way because it ravages the body to such an extent it cannot survive, and it could be one of many conditions that actually is the final straw.


----------



## Jesthar

MilleD said:


> My mum died of cancer in 2016. There were other things on the cert other than the cancer. Something about calcium levels, and she actually died because she asphyxiated. I'm sure that was on there too.
> 
> It was almost as if the cancer was secondary, even though it caused the things that she actually died from.


You've kind of answered your own question there. From a medical perspective on cancer, the vast majority of the time cancer is the underlying, but not specific, cause of death. The certificate records the specifics (pneumonia, asphxia, heart failure etc.) as the primary cause, followed by any contributing causes (such as cancer) that lead to the primary cause.


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> You've kind of answered your own question there. From a medical perspective on cancer, the vast majority of the time cancer is the underlying, but not specific, cause of death. The certificate records the specifics (pneumonia, asphxia, heart failure etc.) as the primary cause, followed by any contributing causes (such as cancer) that lead to the primary cause.


I was answering the question why a death cert would have something else on it when sadly the person dies actually from the causes of the cancer they are suffering.


----------



## MilleD

Cully said:


> Yes there is no doubt if she hadn't had cancer then she wouldn't have had the pneumonia that she succumbed to. I think lots of cancers end this way because it ravages the body to such an extent it cannot survive, and it could be one of many conditions that actually is the final straw.


It is a horrible disease. Sorry for your loss


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Yes there is no doubt if she hadn't had cancer then she wouldn't have had the pneumonia that she succumbed to. I think lots of cancers end this way because it ravages the body to such an extent it cannot survive, and it could be one of many conditions that actually is the final straw.


So sorry for your loss, life is very cruel at times.


----------



## Cully

MilleD said:


> It is a horrible disease. Sorry for your loss


Long time ago now, 1968. But I admit it was hard as a young teenager to get my head around it all. Things were so different then and there's such a lot of support available now which I'm sure would have been helpful. As it was I was more or left to just get on with it. I was very bitter for a while and said some horrible things to people. At the time I didn't realise it was grief!


----------



## MollySmith

Cully said:


> Long time ago now, 1968. But I admit it was hard as a young teenager to get my head around it all. Things were so different then and there's such a lot of support available now which I'm sure would have been helpful. As it was I was more or left to just get on with it. I was very bitter for a while and said some horrible things to people. At the time I didn't realise it was grief!


I'm so sorry.

I think it's easy to misunderstand grief, I have read a lot about disenfranchised grief as it made so much sense (in my periods of grief I've been awful, bitter and said terrible things or sought help from the wrong places - I look back at early PF posts and can see it there too). I hope you have all the support you need.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH had his 4th varication today.....


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH had his 4th varication today.....


4th vaccination HP? I didn`t know the Uk was giving a 4th dose.


----------



## Happy Paws2

3dogs2cats said:


> 4th vaccination HP? I didn`t know the Uk was giving a 4th dose.


Either did we, until he had a letter other other day telling to go to our Town Hall today, When he got there there was two queues one for boosters and one for 4th vacs.

I think it may be something to do with how ill he was in August when he had Bullous Pemphigoid when he had all those blisters and which affects the immune system.


----------



## £54etgfb6

3dogs2cats said:


> 4th vaccination HP? I didn`t know the Uk was giving a 4th dose.


When I had my booster about a month ago I was told I would receive a fourth vaccine in a couple of months due to being immunocompromised. Oddly I have never found any publication in Scotland saying that this is the case so I've got no idea who's eligible.


----------



## neverforgotten2020

So my school teacher daughter caught Covid for the second time at the beginning of this week, and now tonight my other daughter, her husband and my 2 year old grandson have tested positive. We didn't all mix together and both of them did lateral flow tests before visiting me. Luckily they are all vaccinated and boosted, except for my son in law who was waiting for his booster, and of course my grandson. I am just praying that they recover well from it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

neverforgotten2020 said:


> So my school teacher daughter caught Covid for the second time at the beginning of this week, and now tonight my other daughter, her husband and my 2 year old grandson have tested positive. We didn't all mix together and both of them did lateral flow tests before visiting me. Luckily they are all vaccinated and boosted, except for my son in law who was waiting for his booster, and of course my grandson. I am just praying that they recover well from it.


Fingers crossed that they'll All will be OK.


----------



## lullabydream

Just an update on my friend. She's finally home, but was suddenly starting to feel dreadful again. It was quite quick coming off the oxygen in my opinion as her sats were up and down. Maybe that's s bit of a feature of COVID though 

She was calling 111 last time she spoke to me, so am wondering if they will get paramedics to assess her. Probably find out today. Though knowing her she won't say as she doesn't want to worry anyone. Which was what happened when she first got diagnosed.


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Just an update on my friend. She's finally home, but was suddenly starting to feel dreadful again. It was quite quick coming off the oxygen in my opinion as her sats were up and down. Maybe that's s bit of a feature of COVID though
> 
> She was calling 111 last time she spoke to me, so am wondering if they will get paramedics to assess her. Probably find out today. Though knowing her she won't say as she doesn't want to worry anyone. Which was what happened when she first got diagnosed.


Hope she takes swift action if she's struggling again. If she needs to be admitted she shouldn't delay.

Hope she's ok.


----------



## MilleD

lullabydream said:


> Just an update on my friend. She's finally home, but was suddenly starting to feel dreadful again. It was quite quick coming off the oxygen in my opinion as her sats were up and down. Maybe that's s bit of a feature of COVID though
> 
> She was calling 111 last time she spoke to me, so am wondering if they will get paramedics to assess her. Probably find out today. Though knowing her she won't say as she doesn't want to worry anyone. Which was what happened when she first got diagnosed.


Has she got a device to measure her blood oxygen. Can give an early indication of a problem before breathing gets too bad.

Hope she feels better soon x


----------



## simplysardonic

Cully said:


> Long time ago now, 1968. But I admit it was hard as a young teenager to get my head around it all. Things were so different then and there's such a lot of support available now which I'm sure would have been helpful. As it was I was more or left to just get on with it. I was very bitter for a while and said some horrible things to people. At the time I didn't realise it was grief!


So sorry about your mum, I lost my mum when I was 13, this was in 1989, things weren't much better with regards to support then either.

Adolesence is a difficult time at the best of times, even worse when there's trauma to go through.


----------



## lullabydream

MilleD said:


> Has she got a device to measure her blood oxygen. Can give an early indication of a problem before breathing gets too bad.
> 
> Hope she feels better soon x


She has and she also knows the figures for oxygen being low and needing urgent help


----------



## MilleD

Interesting story about Google tonight.

Their answer to having worked from home is to purchase the office space they currently rent and increase the office capacity by 50%.

Only costing them £730m.

Interesting route to take.


----------



## Blackadder

Got to keep the fear levels up..... what is wrong with these people? They haven't come close with their modelling, not once!

*UK's daily Covid cases plunge below 100,000 for first time since before Christmas and are now dropping in EVERY region of England... but SAGE advisers are already warning of a SUMMER wave of up to 10k daily hospital admissions*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-Covid-cases-dip-100-000-time-Christmas.html


----------



## Cully

My son has booked an appointment to have his booster through the NHS online site. He's having it done at the same place he had his first two jabs.
Now he's worried he's booked the wrong jab as on the text reminder it just says vaccination and doesn't specify booster. Do you think he neds to worry?


----------



## stuaz

Cully said:


> My son has booked an appointment to have his booster through the NHS online site. He's having it done at the same place he had his first two jabs.
> Now he's worried he's booked the wrong jab as on the text reminder it just says vaccination and doesn't specify booster. Do you think he neds to worry?


From memory the website doesn't give the option to choose.

Ether way there's No need to worry. When you get there they ask you what vaccination you need - First/second/booster as often the vaccination centres do all three types.


----------



## Cully

stuaz said:


> From memory the website doesn't give the option to choose.
> 
> Ether way there's No need to worry. When you get there they ask you what vaccination you need - First/second/booster as often the vaccination centres do all three types.


Thanks. He suffers from anxiety and finds problems a bit freaky away from home.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

This is interesting - and brought to mind what @O2.0 has been saying for ages.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59970281

I really want to believe it...


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> This is interesting - and brought to mind what @O2.0 has been saying for ages.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59970281
> 
> I really want to believe it...


Yup... Makes a lot of sense to me.

JMO but we need to stop thinking of covid 19 in the same terms we did in March of 2020. We had no vaccines at that point, we had no monoclonal antibodies, we were too quick to put people on ventilators, we simply didn't have any tools for treatment or prevention.

Now we do. And we need to start acting like the vaccines we have work, because they do. And that the treatments we have work, and we need to quit acting like covid is as deadly as it was when it first appeared. Because it's not. The virus itself has mutated and makes folks less ill and we have so much more information about how to treat it successfully.

And we need to stop attacking people who say things like the above paragraph  
Because even now, if you say getting covid isn't the worst thing that can happen to you, there's an immediate pile-on about how many people have died. Yes, people died BEFORE we had vaccines and treatments. That chart is awesome, look how much the death rate has plummeted. Yes, we're still having infections, but the death rate is way down. That's a GOOD thing! We're allowed to celebrate that! 
And those getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. So let's make vaccines more available, let's take the politics out of it.

I'm vaccinated and boostered. I don't wear a mask unless I'm specifically asked to. I am not avoiding people. We're in the middle of an Omicron wave here and we have more people out on quarantine (5 days) than people who are actually symptomatic. Strep throat is going around too. If you test positive for strep, you can come right back to school/work. If you test positive for covid, you have to stay home until no symptoms and anyone considered a close contact has to stay home for 5 days. No close contact worries for strep though.


----------



## Lurcherlad

All the above, except I’m happy to keep my mask and sanitiser handy around strangers 

I might avoid colds and throat infections too


----------



## Siskin

I feel we are looking towards the end of the epidemic and that Covid will remain endemic much like flu and colds. I suspect annual vaccination will become another thing to get used to, but it’s fairly likely that omicron infections will protect us largely from any mutations.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Me too, I'll wear my mask in the shops still and if I was going on public transport.

We went to the funeral of a neighbour on Monday and it was the first time I've been inside a pub since early 2020. We sat with four of our neighbours at a table and only got up to get a sandwich. I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't a wake - but it felt sort of okay. I have, however, declined three invitations for this weekend now. Big groups of people celebrating (rather than a wake of a neighbour, where I wouldn't be hugging anyone) are currently a bridge too far for me.

ETA: No doubt I will be wearing my mask at work forever!


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> All the above, except I'm happy to keep my mask and sanitiser handy around strangers
> 
> I might avoid colds and throat infections too


I love my mask strangely I feel comfortable with it on, I have had reduced colds and I do work in schools. Also it hides half my face when I can't be bothered to do my make up.


----------



## Blackadder

Boxer123 said:


> Also it hides half my face when I can't be bothered to do my make up.


Lots of people tell me I look better in a mask  I think I'm insulted


----------



## pinklizzy

I'm much happier in my mask and quite often forget I can take it off to walk home even after a full 10hrs with it on 
Definitely not looking forward to the lowering of restrictions.


----------



## stuaz

pinklizzy said:


> Definitely not looking forward to the lowering of restrictions.


Out of curiosity, but why?


----------



## pinklizzy

stuaz said:


> Out of curiosity, but why?


I find it very anxiety inducing in the times when restrictions have relaxed and we've just waited for the next wave of infections or another variant.
Trying to manage being able to stay at work, working extra when others have to isolate and keeping the children safe while also sending them to school so that I can work, means that we do very little that might mean exposure to other people. The less restrictions there are, the harder that is to maintain.


----------



## kimthecat

Blackadder said:


> Lots of people tell me I look better in a mask  I think I'm insulted


:Hilarious


----------



## stuaz

pinklizzy said:


> I find it very anxiety inducing in the times when restrictions have relaxed and we've just waited for the next wave of infections or another variant.
> Trying to manage being able to stay at work, working extra when others have to isolate and keeping the children safe while also sending them to school so that I can work, means that we do very little that might mean exposure to other people. The less restrictions there are, the harder that is to maintain.


The thing is though, restrictions are not maintanable long term. There will most likely always be a strain of Covid19 out there. While I will agree that "turning the tap" off fully at once is iresponsible, there will come a time when there will be no restrictions BUT a variant of Covid19 will still be out there.

I think Covid19 has done hell with peoples anixety and has made people worry so much, maybe more so that nesscary, so now for some people the thought of not wearing a mask or being close to someone else fills them with dread and that I think is sad 

We need to continue to have faith in the vaccine programs because they have proven to work. I am hopeful that this year a "booster" will only be needed for the elderly/vunerable or those who want it (Similar to that of the annual flu vaccine).


----------



## pinklizzy

stuaz said:


> I think Covid19 has done hell with peoples anixety and has made people worry so much, maybe more so that nesscary, so now for some people the thought of not wearing a mask or being close to someone else fills them with dread and that I think is sad


I can see your point with regards to restrictions in a logical sense but in a day to day scenario, I am 'that person' who cannot now imagine happily being close to people I don't know or in busy areas without PPE even if at the time it seems fine, the time spent worrying afterwards is too exhausting.


----------



## stuaz

pinklizzy said:


> I can see your point with regards to restrictions in a logical sense but in a day to day scenario, I am 'that person' who cannot now imagine happily being close to people I don't know or in busy areas without PPE even if at the time it seems fine, the time spent worrying afterwards is too exhausting.


I wont pretend to tell you how to deal with that sort of anixety but I do hope you one day do feel more comfortable doing stuff without the precautions and worry.


----------



## £54etgfb6

pinklizzy said:


> I can see your point with regards to restrictions in a logical sense but in a day to day scenario, I am 'that person' who cannot now imagine happily being close to people I don't know or in busy areas without PPE even if at the time it seems fine, the time spent worrying afterwards is too exhausting.


You don't have to stand next to strangers regardless of pandemic or not. If people think it's rude to ask them to give you space then that's their issue. And if you feel more comfortable wearing masks, gloves, etc then go for it. It's your life  Make yourself comfortable rather than sacrificing things just because nobody else does them.

However, if you do struggle with health anxiety (whether this started during or before the pandemic) then I'd advise speaking to your GP. There is lots of useful advice online regarding it and hearing other people's experienced can definitely help you feel less alone. There is a fine line between doing things because they make you feel more comfortable and doing things because you feel trapped.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cully said:


> My son has booked an appointment to have his booster through the NHS online site. He's having it done at the same place he had his first two jabs.
> Now he's worried he's booked the wrong jab as on the text reminder it just says vaccination and doesn't specify booster. Do you think he neds to worry?











This was for my booster  The texts for my first and second jabs specifically stated first and second but my booster just said vaccination. As stuaz said they will ask him which ones he has received so far so there will be no confusion


----------



## Magyarmum

Wearing a mask has become the norm for me as it seems to be for most Hungarians. It's just been announced that a 4th vaccination will be available but only with a doctor's recommendation. I don't think I'll bother because although my age places me in the vulnerable class, I'm perfectly healthy with no underlying conditions. 

I have however decided to upgrade my masks from the surgical masks to KN59 to give added protection. And yes I know the KN59 are made in China and some are below standard, but I've researched them thoroughly and made sure the ones I've ordered meet EU standards.

With temperatures well below freezing (-10C this morning) at present I've no inclination to go anywhere apart from meeting the boys trainer each week when after training we have coffee and I do some grocery shopping on the way back home. Once the weather gets warmer we'll take trips out in the car and find somewhere for a walk and a picnic


----------



## pinklizzy

bmr10 said:


> However, if you do struggle with health anxiety (whether this started during or before the pandemic) then I'd advise speaking to your GP. There is lots of useful advice online regarding it and hearing other people's experienced can definitely help you feel less alone. There is a fine line between doing things because they make you feel more comfortable and doing things because you feel trapped.


I don't know if it's health anxiety per se as I'm not too worried about the implications of contracting it again, more the knock on effects on others- my giving it to someone more vulnerable, the pressure it would put on already stretched colleagues to have more time off, financial implications of isolating. Those are the things that keep me awake at night 

I think *my* main concern is that some of the restriction lifting seems to contradict some of the science and being more pessimistic about the how and when we will be able to live with Covid will maybe mean less disappointment in the long run.

I also know that I'm probably more cautious than necessary and how I feel is irrelevant in the grand scheme of what will happen


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Don't worry @pinklizzy you are not alone. My friends definitely think I'm over-cautious (which I'm fine with).

When it all first emerged I didn't want to take it home to husband, then it became I didn't want to infect any of the women who come through my department (I still feel a bit like this but I now also coming to a slightly different POV as so many of our "patients" are choosing not to be vaccinated, not that I want them to get Covid but there is a viable option to protect themselves now), then I went through a long period of fear of getting Covid but ending up with Long Covid (which really scares/scared me!). So I've lived a long time now in fear of many aspects of it - and it is that which is proving difficult for me to dial down. I'll keep trying…


----------



## Cully

bmr10 said:


> View attachment 482739
> 
> This was for my booster  The texts for my first and second jabs specifically stated first and second but my booster just said vaccination. As stuaz said they will ask him which ones he has received so far so there will be no confusion


That's pretty much what his text said. I can't remember my texts and have deleted them now but think they were as your example above. Thanks, I feel more reassured now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Received this text this morning … looks like a scam to me.

It just looks wrong and unlike the other NHS texts I've had.

Note the emphasised words.










Be careful what you respond to.

You can get everything you need via the official main NHS and government websites.

I already have my card and digital passes.

Ignore any random communications.


----------



## Boxer123

Covid numbers have tumbled but is this due to not having a PCR after a positive lateral flow of your symptomless?


----------



## Siskin

I didn’t think you could have a PCR test if you had no symptoms for quite a while now. The thing that has changed is you don't need to have a PCR if you have a positive lateral flow. 
It would appear that cases are dropping and most scientists are agreeing to this. The same thing happened in South Africa with omicron, rapid rise of cases for about a month followed by a sudden drop. Have to say though today’s cases don’t include Scotland who do seem to have had a lot of cases despite a lockdown.


----------



## Boxer123

Siskin said:


> I didn't think you could have a PCR test if you had no symptoms for quite a while now. The thing that has changed is you don't need to have a PCR if you have a positive lateral flow.
> It would appear that cases are dropping and most scientists are agreeing to this. The same thing happened in South Africa with omicron, rapid rise of cases for about a month followed by a sudden drop. Have to say though today's cases don't include Scotland who do seem to have had a lot of cases despite a lockdown.


Let's hope so.


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> Covid numbers have tumbled but is this due to not having a PCR after a positive lateral flow of your symptomless?


Aren't you meant to report your lateral flow test results too? Although have to admit the one and only time I've taken one I forgot! (It was negative so less of an issue)


----------



## Siskin

Arny said:


> Aren't you meant to report your lateral flow test results too? Although have to admit the one and only time I've taken one I forgot! (It was negative so less of an issue)


You are, not everyone does though even though it's easy to do


----------



## MilleD

Lurcherlad said:


> Received this text this morning … looks like a scam to me.
> 
> It just looks wrong and unlike the other NHS texts I've had.
> 
> Note the emphasised words.
> 
> View attachment 482741
> 
> 
> Be careful what you respond to.
> 
> You can get everything you need via the official main NHS and government websites.
> 
> I already have my card and digital passes.
> 
> Ignore any random communications.


Definitely a scam. The passes are available on the app or the NHS website. Scammers are trying to get people to pay for them.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Daughter has COVID. Got the results on the day my son had his vaccination. Now both not well.
I am ok and according to our regulations I have to go to work, though I could work from home perfectly well.
My colleagues look at me daggers!!!


----------



## Cleo38

Had my booster yesterday & felt terrible again today. Managed to get the dogs out for a couple of walks & do some work but then fell asleep.on the sofa.
I keep feeling so cold & then being sick. I've no idea why my side effects seems to be so sevete. I was ill for days after the initial jabs.


----------



## willa

Cleo38 said:


> Had my booster yesterday & felt terrible again today. Managed to get the dogs out for a couple of walks & do some work but then fell asleep.on the sofa.
> I keep feeling so cold & then being sick. I've no idea why my side effects seems to be so sevete. I was ill for days after the initial jabs.


Which booster vaccine did you have ?


----------



## Cleo38

willa said:


> Which booster vaccine did you have ?


The Pfizer booster. My initial jabs were Asta Zenica.

I was alot worse with the initial ones but still feel terrible with this. I didn't even have any dinner which shows I must be really ill as I am never iff my food!


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Daughter has COVID. Got the results on the day my son had his vaccination. Now both not well.


Hope they both make a full and speedy recovery


----------



## MollySmith

cheekyscrip said:


> Daughter has COVID. Got the results on the day my son had his vaccination. Now both not well.
> I am ok and according to our regulations I have to go to work, though I could work from home perfectly well.
> My colleagues look at me daggers!!!


Take good care of yourselves.


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> The Pfizer booster. My initial jabs were Asta Zenica.
> 
> I was alot worse with the initial ones but still feel terrible with this. I didn't even have any dinner which shows I must be really ill as I am never iff my food!


I'm sorry to hear that. I was wobbly with AZ for the first two, and terrible with Moderna which I think is the same sort as Pfizner? I found Lemzip and anything paracetamol helped, and it passed in a few days. I hope you feel better tomorrow.


----------



## Cleo38

MollySmith said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I was wobbly with AZ for the first two, and terrible with Moderna which I think is the same sort as Pfizner? I found Lemzip and anything paracetamol helped, and it passed in a few days. I hope you feel better tomorrow.


Thanks, have been taking paracetamol but it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel awful again today & under my arm (the one I received the jab) has swollen up & feels like someone kicked me there.

Wonder why I react like this? I have never had extreme reactions to any other vaccination. I hate being ill, I am such moaning minnie when I am :Arghh


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh booo @Cleo38  one of my colleagues had the lump under the armpit thing with all three of hers (ours were all Pfizer jabs) and it lasted a good couple of weeks each time.

Hope you better quickly.


----------



## Cleo38

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh booo @Cleo38  one of my colleagues had the lump under the armpit thing with all three of hers (ours were all Pfizer jabs) and it lasted a good couple of weeks each time.
> 
> Hope you better quickly.


Thanks, I'm supposed to be visiting Archer & Kato's breeder tomorrow to discuss puppies & her breeding plans for this year so I NEED to get better for an important thing like that


----------



## simplysardonic

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks, I'm supposed to be visiting Archer & Kato's breeder tomorrow to discuss puppies & her breeding plans for this year so I NEED to get better for an important thing like that


You definitely need to be better for that!

Sorry you've had nasty reactions


----------



## Jesthar

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks, have been taking paracetamol but it doesn't seem to be helping.


Ibuprofen is better for swelling, it's an anti-inflammatory.

I had Moderna for my second jab and the soreness lasted several days, though after couple of days it wasn't a constant annoyance any more


----------



## rona

Went into two shops and the bank this morning  Something I've not done much of since this whole debacle started. :Wideyed

Tried to time it, when no one was busy, and luckily it worked out perfectly


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I feel awful again today & under my arm (the one I received the jab) has swollen up & feels like someone kicked me there.


That's funny you mention that, I didn't feel bad after my booster but my arm was sore. Then the next day (2 days after the shot) my armpit was sore, and I wasn't sure if it was from lifting a sofa (we had built one sofa and rearranged the other) but it was only the one armpit, not both.

I had the moderna for the initial vaccine and pfizer for the booster. The pharmacist who vaccinated us said to use acetaminophen for pain/fever.

One of the reasons I don't get a flu vaccine is that I get sicker from the vaccine than I ever have from the flu. I'm starting to feel that way about these covid vaccines. I certainly won't be doing a yearly thing unless I absolutely have to. Especially as the virus keeps mutating to cause less illness.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Honestly, I have no words after reading this. Poor family 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> Covid numbers have tumbled but is this due to not having a PCR after a positive lateral flow of your symptomless?


I think at this point it's more useful to track hospitalizations and deaths as opposed to infection rate. Now with so many people vaccinated, and omicron causing less illness, it makes more sense to look at how many hospitalizations and deaths we're having. I don't mind a high infection rate if the death and hospitalization rate is very low.


----------



## MollySmith

UK plans to scrap face masks, working from home and vaccine passports in Plan B announcement

(Statement not a comment as this isn't the political thread) and I'm just checking everyone is okay as my anxiety has increased. A lot can happen before 27th January.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Honestly, I have no words after reading this. Poor family
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996


So sad. Just reinforces the need for education in the need for vaccination.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> That's funny you mention that, I didn't feel bad after my booster but my arm was sore. Then the next day (2 days after the shot) my armpit was sore, and I wasn't sure if it was from lifting a sofa (we had built one sofa and rearranged the other) but it was only the one armpit, not both.
> 
> I had the moderna for the initial vaccine and pfizer for the booster. The pharmacist who vaccinated us said to use acetaminophen for pain/fever.
> 
> One of the reasons I don't get a flu vaccine is that I get sicker from the vaccine than I ever have from the flu. I'm starting to feel that way about these covid vaccines. I certainly won't be doing a yearly thing unless I absolutely have to. Especially as the virus keeps mutating to cause less illness.


I am feeling a bit better now. I felt terrible again earlier; sweating, feeling hot & cold, vomiting, so tired etc I couldn't even attend a couple of online meetings as I felt so bad. I sort of felt like I needed to pull myself together but couldn't.

My armpit is so painful still & all my lymph nodes are swollen. I kept waking up last night as it every time I turned over on to my right side it hurt too much.

I managed to take the dogs out a couple of times & they have actually been very gentle with me .... even Kato!!! 

A few months ago there was talk of the booster being every 6eks but there is no way I am going through this several times a year. I was even debating having this as I knew I'd be so ill but decided it was better to go ahead with it. Same as you I am not having another one unless I really have to.


----------



## cheekyscrip

rona said:


> Hope they both make a full and speedy recovery


Thank you and @MollySmith 
They have the usual symptoms but ok, mostly sleeping it off…


----------



## MollySmith

Morrisons cut sick pay for unvaccinated staff
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59902929


----------



## lullabydream

Mrs Funkin said:


> Honestly, I have no words after reading this. Poor family
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996


I read that earlier too, her attitude seemed to be similar to my friend who ended up in hospital on a CPAP machine. It makes me realise how lucky my friend was


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I am feeling a bit better now. I felt terrible again earlier; sweating, feeling hot & cold, vomiting, so tired etc I couldn't even attend a couple of online meetings as I felt so bad. I sort of felt like I needed to pull myself together but couldn't.
> 
> My armpit is so painful still & all my lymph nodes are swollen. I kept waking up last night as it every time I turned over on to my right side it hurt too much.
> 
> I managed to take the dogs out a couple of times & they have actually been very gentle with me .... even Kato!!!
> 
> A few months ago there was talk of the booster being every 6eks but there is no way I am going through this several times a year. I was even debating having this as I knew I'd be so ill but decided it was better to go ahead with it. Same as you I am not having another one unless I really have to.


It is worrisome that the vaccine makes you feel so sick. 
I've had many vaccines in my life and other than the flu vaccine, I don't remember any making me feel bad other than a sore arm. Tetanus is the worst for that!

I wish it were possible to have a sane conversation about the risk/benefit of the covid vaccine, particularly repeated boosters. 
Like with me for the flu, the odds of me getting the flu are low, I'm not in any at-risk groups, and the efficacy of the vaccine is too low for me to feel like the risk of feeling like poo for a week is worth the benefit of the little protection it offers.

Covid vaccines have a much, much higher efficacy rate at preventing infection and if you get infected, preventing serious illness. But I still think there's a conversation to be had if the risk of the vaccine is worth the benefit for people who are not vulnerable.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> It is worrisome that the vaccine makes you feel so sick.
> I've had many vaccines in my life and other than the flu vaccine, I don't remember any making me feel bad other than a sore arm. Tetanus is the worst for that!
> 
> I wish it were possible to have a sane conversation about the risk/benefit of the covid vaccine, particularly repeated boosters.
> Like with me for the flu, the odds of me getting the flu are low, I'm not in any at-risk groups, and the efficacy of the vaccine is too low for me to feel like the risk of feeling like poo for a week is worth the benefit of the little protection it offers.
> 
> Covid vaccines have a much, much higher efficacy rate at preventing infection and if you get infected, preventing serious illness. But I still think there's a conversation to be had if the risk of the vaccine is worth the benefit for people who are not vulnerable.


Yes, its also frustrating that people seem very dismissive of the side effects. I am lucky in that I work from home & can make up the time but if not then I would have had to have taken 2 days off work.

Ive had jabs previously for holidays or work (I visit sewage sites) & the only one I remember being painful afterwards (my arm) was typhoid but nothing like this. I just sent my friend a pic of my under arm & she was quite shocked at how swollen it is.

Am very reluctant to go through this again


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> But I still think there's a conversation to be had if the risk of the vaccine is worth the benefit for people who are not vulnerable.


I suppose it depends on how you define 'risk' to an extent. I really don't like having injections at all, but if that and feeling a bit off kilter for a day or two is the cost of protecting myself and those around me, I can handle that. I have been rather blessed in that I've always been staying with family when I've had all three of mine so far, though, and also in that I work from home.

I do hope they can do some research into why some people have such a bad reaction and improve that, though. I wouldn't have been able to do a physical job for a day or two after hte Moderna, but thankfully my work only involves sitting on my backside inconveniencing pixels...


----------



## stuaz

O2.0 said:


> It is worrisome that the vaccine makes you feel so sick.
> I've had many vaccines in my life and other than the flu vaccine, I don't remember any making me feel bad other than a sore arm. Tetanus is the worst for that!
> 
> I wish it were possible to have a sane conversation about the risk/benefit of the covid vaccine, particularly repeated boosters.
> Like with me for the flu, the odds of me getting the flu are low, I'm not in any at-risk groups, and the efficacy of the vaccine is too low for me to feel like the risk of feeling like poo for a week is worth the benefit of the little protection it offers.
> 
> Covid vaccines have a much, much higher efficacy rate at preventing infection and if you get infected, preventing serious illness. But I still think there's a conversation to be had if the risk of the vaccine is worth the benefit for people who are not vulnerable.


I am of the same opinion. The initial vaccine was "our" way out of the pandemic and I encouraged anyone and everyone to get it!

But once the deaths/hospitalisation start to drop and stay down it's a indicator it's working and at that point any future vaccine should be focused on the elderly/vulnerable and also countries that don't have a great vaccination rate or funds to do a vaccination program such as African countries.


----------



## Cully

It's probably worth using the yellow card system to report any side effects. Hopefully they can use that info to help improve the vaccine to make reactions less severe in the future.


----------



## MollySmith

Jesthar said:


> I suppose it depends on how you define 'risk' to an extent. I really don't like having injections at all, but if that and feeling a bit off kilter for a day or two is the cost of protecting myself and those around me, I can handle that. I have been rather blessed in that I've always been staying with family when I've had all three of mine so far, though, and also in that I work from home.
> 
> I do hope they can do some research into why some people have such a bad reaction and improve that, though. I wouldn't have been able to do a physical job for a day or two after hte Moderna, but thankfully my work only involves sitting on my backside inconveniencing pixels...


Same here, I did lose some days of self-employment which wasn't good at all but my clients are good. I did find myself having to time it as it wasn't good so I also understand @O2.0 point too. I'm certainly very cautious of having a booster part 2 as historically for me lately, no good has come of needles so there's a psychological effect too that did make me blip a bit with mental health.

I was gratefully unwell but still question the validity but having a sensible convo about it is tough, esp after the events of today which I'm starting to catastrophise about so I might step away from PF.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, its also frustrating that people seem very dismissive of the side effects. I am lucky in that I work from home & can make up the time but if not then I would have had to have taken 2 days off work.
> 
> Ive had jabs previously for holidays or work (I visit sewage sites) & the only one I remember being painful afterwards (my arm) was typhoid but nothing like this. I just sent my friend a pic of my under arm & she was quite shocked at how swollen it is.
> 
> Am very reluctant to go through this again


After my first jab I was very nauseous and my arm was immobile for several days (I was on annual leave) and it disrupted my sleep for nearly three weeks. So, when it came to my second jab I tried to get the date of it changed so that I could have it done in my annual leave and not have to miss any work time - but they simply wouldn't accommodate it as it would have meant it being before the 12 weeks. I even emailed our Chief Exec and didn't even get a response from her PA. I thought it was disgraceful. My side effects were totally discounted and in the end I decided that if I had to be off sick because of it (even though I didn't want to be), then so be it. In the end, they called me forward to be in my annual leave...I was reluctant about the booster - and I am really reluctant to have more boosters.

I second Cully in her "reporting of your side effects" suggestion.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

MollySmith said:


> Same here, I did lose some days of self-employment which wasn't good at all but my clients are good. I did find myself having to time it as it wasn't good so I also understand @O2.0 point too. I'm certainly very cautious of having a booster part 2 as historically for me lately, no good has come of needles so there's a psychological effect too that did make me blip a bit with mental health.
> 
> I was gratefully unwell but still question the validity but having a sensible convo about it is tough, esp after the events of today which I'm starting to catastrophise about so I might step away from PF.


I'm so sorry its making you feel like this. If you are going to step away, I get that. However, if you do step away but need anything/need to talk/offload/worry then please message me and I will happily send you my email address. Hope you are okay xx


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I just sent my friend a pic of my under arm & she was quite shocked at how swollen it is.


Might be worth having your GP look at it. You don't really want to mess around with swollen lymph nodes.


----------



## Cleo38

Thanks @Cully, I'd forgotten about that so will do it now.

That's terrible @Mrs Funkin, surely they could have tried to accomodate you especially if it meant avoiding time off work. Glad it was sorted eventually tho.

I put off getting it done before Christmas as I didnt want to be ill as I was really looking forward to seeing my family. Glad it's done now but will defintely have to read up a bit more if recommendations are for regular


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm so sorry its making you feel like this. If you are going to step away, I get that. However, if you do step away but need anything/need to talk/offload/worry then please message me and I will happily send you my email address. Hope you are okay xx


You're so lovely, thank you. So many of you make me smile. Maybe one day we might pluck up the courage between us to meet in person.


----------



## MollySmith

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, its also frustrating that people seem very dismissive of the side effects. I am lucky in that I work from home & can make up the time but if not then I would have had to have taken 2 days off work.
> 
> Ive had jabs previously for holidays or work (I visit sewage sites) & the only one I remember being painful afterwards (my arm) was typhoid but nothing like this. I just sent my friend a pic of my under arm & she was quite shocked at how swollen it is.
> 
> Am very reluctant to go through this again


My brother said he had swollen lymph nodes under his arm and yellow carded it as @Cully said, it took a week for his to go down - also AZ and Pfizner like you. So sorry you're still feeling rough.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks @Cully, I'd forgotten about that so will do it now.
> 
> That's terrible @Mrs Funkin, surely they could have tried to accomodate you especially if it meant avoiding time off work. Glad it was sorted eventually tho.
> 
> I put off getting it done before Christmas as I didnt want to be ill as I was really looking forward to seeing my family. Glad it's done now but will defintely have to read up a bit more if recommendations are for regular


If covid vaccination eventually becomes a yearly event, like flu jabs, swollen lymph nodes will be much, much less likely. Swollen lymph nodes are typically seen in vaccinations with multiple doses within a short time frame.

If I'm honest (and I may be completely, completely wrong) I will not be too surprised if the 4th dose for clinically vulnerable patients becomes available to everyone. I will however be surprised if healthy individuals are asked to have more than this during 2022.

Edit to add: Swollen lymph nodes can take a long time to go down!! Weeks even. They can also swell up incredibly large (larger than a fist). The fluid will eventually disperse and rejoin your blood but if you are concerned or in a couple of weeks time you're in the same situation you can contact your GP.

If anyone is still to have their booster- getting it in a different arm than your last can help.


----------



## Bethanjane22

Had the Moderna booster on Sunday (my first two vaccines were Pfizer). 

Monday I was exhausted, had a mild headache and just felt like I’d had the flu.

Tuesday morning I felt better, still had a dull headache and felt tired but much better.

Yesterday I had a headache around my right eye and temple all day. Painkillers would dull the pain but it would come back. By last night it had gone.

This morning I’ve woken up with a splitting headache, again it’s centralised on my right temple and behind the right eye. 

I’m hoping it won’t keep getting worse and will start to settle down now.

has anyone else had bad headaches after Moderna? 

I had Covid at the start of December so not sure if that has made side effects worse. This headache is so much worse than any headache I had whilst positive with Covid.

I had my booster in the right arm and the headache is only on my right side, so not sure if that has any correlation.


----------



## Siskin

I had a 24 hour headache with the Pfizer booster jab. No side noticeable side effects with AZ


----------



## Boxer123

Bethanjane22 said:


> Had the Moderna booster on Sunday (my first two vaccines were Pfizer).
> 
> Monday I was exhausted, had a mild headache and just felt like I'd had the flu.
> 
> Tuesday morning I felt better, still had a dull headache and felt tired but much better.
> 
> Yesterday I had a headache around my right eye and temple all day. Painkillers would dull the pain but it would come back. By last night it had gone.
> 
> This morning I've woken up with a splitting headache, again it's centralised on my right temple and behind the right eye.
> 
> I'm hoping it won't keep getting worse and will start to settle down now.
> 
> has anyone else had bad headaches after Moderna?
> 
> I had Covid at the start of December so not sure if that has made side effects worse. This headache is so much worse than any headache I had whilst positive with Covid.
> 
> I had my booster in the right arm and the headache is only on my right side, so not sure if that has any correlation.


My sister was unwell with it. TBH I'm getting more and more reluctant to have the booster.


----------



## Magyarmum

I had no side effects with my first two Sinopharm vaccinations but had an arm that felt slightly hot and sore for a few days after my 3rd Pfizer booster.

I do remember though being really ill for a couple of weeks after my smallpox vaccination. I had a fever, swollen lymph glands and a large pustule on my arm.


----------



## Cleo38

Thanks for the info regarding lymph node @bmr10 , it really was quite worrying when I realised just how swollen I was. It feels very odd aswell.

The most worrying thing is my headache. It has subdued a bit but is still bad. I have stopped feeling very hot/cold & being sick now which is good & meant i got a better night's sleep but I have still woken up with a headache & aching limbs.

Gutted as I am not well enough to go & talk puppies with Archer & Kato's breeder so will have to postpone :Arghh


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks for the info regarding lymph node @bmr10 , it really was quite worrying when I realised just how swollen I was. It feels very odd aswell.
> 
> The most worrying thing is my headache. It has subdued a bit but is still bad. I have stopped feeling very hot/cold & being sick now which is good & meant i got a better night's sleep but I have still woken up with a headache & aching limbs.
> 
> Gutted as I am not well enough to go & talk puppies with Archer & Kato's breeder so will have to postpone :Arghh


It is very concerning at first especially when it happens right after a medical procedure!! But in reality it's very common with the covid vaccines due to how quick in succession the doses are.

With mine I felt very cold and shivery on the day of, nausea, and sore arm. The silver lining of having a chronic illness is that I've grown up in pain and feeling unwell so I was able to ignore mine. I feel for you, especially with the vomiting!


----------



## £54etgfb6

Boxer123 said:


> My sister was unwell with it. TBH I'm getting more and more reluctant to have the booster.


Everyone reacts differently to them  My partner and my own family had zero reaction and the only reaction I had was with my first two. If you feel too uncomfortable at the prospect of how it might affect you that is understandable but just make sure you don't convince yourself that because those close to you have felt poorly afterwards you will too- everyone is different!


----------



## simplysardonic

Bethanjane22 said:


> Had the Moderna booster on Sunday (my first two vaccines were Pfizer).
> 
> Monday I was exhausted, had a mild headache and just felt like I'd had the flu.
> 
> Tuesday morning I felt better, still had a dull headache and felt tired but much better.
> 
> Yesterday I had a headache around my right eye and temple all day. Painkillers would dull the pain but it would come back. By last night it had gone.
> 
> This morning I've woken up with a splitting headache, again it's centralised on my right temple and behind the right eye.
> 
> I'm hoping it won't keep getting worse and will start to settle down now.
> 
> has anyone else had bad headaches after Moderna?
> 
> I had Covid at the start of December so not sure if that has made side effects worse. This headache is so much worse than any headache I had whilst positive with Covid.
> 
> I had my booster in the right arm and the headache is only on my right side, so not sure if that has any correlation.


I've noticed an increase in my headaches since I had my booster almost 2 weeks ago, had one day last week where I got in from work & just went to bed, today I have another nasty one.


----------



## Cleo38

bmr10 said:


> Everyone reacts differently to them  My partner and my own family had zero reaction and the only reaction I had was with my first two. If you feel too uncomfortable at the prospect of how it might affect you that is understandable but just make sure you don't convince yourself that because those close to you have felt poorly afterwards you will too- everyone is different!


Yes, my sister was fine with the initial vaccinations (apart from a disruption to her periods) but then was really ill with the booster.


----------



## Dimwit

Cleo38 said:


> The most worrying thing is my headache. It has subdued a bit but is still bad. I have stopped feeling very hot/cold & being sick now which is good & meant i got a better night's sleep but I have still woken up with a headache & aching limbs.
> 
> Gutted as I am not well enough to go & talk puppies with Archer & Kato's breeder so will have to postpone :Arghh



What are you taking for the headache? I had a really bad reaction to my moderna booster (had pfizer initially) so I blitzed it with paracetamol and ibuprofen, paracetamol for the pain and slight fever and ibuprofen to reduce any inflammation.

I am a great believer in vaccines but I am concerned about the frequency that new strains are emerging (which is to be expected, for all BJs talk of how we have beaten covid we are nowhere near that). On one hand you could watch out for new strains and only get booster vaccines if needed against any new strains which cause more severe illness, but on the other hand even mild covid infection can result in long covid.

The problem really is that we still don't understand covid fully, and it is very unpredictble in terms of severity of infection and long covid. Unfortunately while global vaccination remains low, in some regions of the world aconditions are perfect for emergence of new strains and with our government scrapping all controls on who enters the country we will never be able to prevent introduction of these strains into the population.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks for the info regarding lymph node @bmr10 , it really was quite worrying when I realised just how swollen I was. It feels very odd aswell.
> 
> The most worrying thing is my headache. It has subdued a bit but is still bad. I have stopped feeling very hot/cold & being sick now which is good & meant i got a better night's sleep but I have still woken up with a headache & aching limbs.
> 
> Gutted as I am not well enough to go & talk puppies with Archer & Kato's breeder so will have to postpone :Arghh


I really think your symptoms are worth mentioning to your GP, even if they tell you it's a normal reaction. I wouldn't leave lymph node swelling for weeks without an all clear from a doctor.



Dimwit said:


> The problem really is that we still don't understand covid fully, and it is very unpredictble in terms of severity of infection and long covid. Unfortunately while global vaccination remains low, in some regions of the world aconditions are perfect for emergence of new strains


Exactly on both points. 
We still don't understand so much about this virus and the disease it causes, and it may very well be that we're over vaccinating one population (potentially to their detriment) while certainly under vaccinating another population, to the detriment of all of us.

I still think all these boosters would be better utilized being send off to undervaccinated countries with volunteers if necessary to help with distribution and administering. We clearly have the money to blow on covid related stuff (our government seems to) it really would be better served being spent on countries that are still struggling to get their population an initial dose! 
That's what we did with smallpox. There was a global vaccination effort. I don't know where we lost sight of that understanding - that viruses know no country boundaries, but it would be good if we could relearn it quickly.


----------



## Cleo38

Dimwit said:


> What are you taking for the headache? I had a really bad reaction to my moderna booster (had pfizer initially) so I blitzed it with paracetamol and ibuprofen, paracetamol for the pain and slight fever and ibuprofen to reduce any inflammation.
> 
> I am a great believer in vaccines but I am concerned about the frequency that new strains are emerging (which is to be expected, for all BJs talk of how we have beaten covid we are nowhere near that). On one hand you could watch out for new strains and only get booster vaccines if needed against any new strains which cause more severe illness, but on the other hand even mild covid infection can result in long covid.
> 
> The problem really is that we still don't understand covid fully, and it is very unpredictble in terms of severity of infection and long covid. Unfortunately while global vaccination remains low, in some regions of the world aconditions are perfect for emergence of new strains and with our government scrapping all controls on who enters the country we will never be able to prevent introduction of these strains into the population.


I was taking paracetamol initially but then combined it with Ibuprofen but it didn't have much effect. In the end I was took some Tramadol (left over meds from my back problem), which helped massively & helps me sleep. I've had some today as well which has helped with my headache as I started feeling nauseous again


----------



## Jesthar

For those of you with headaches, make sure you are drinking enough water. Dehydration causes or exacerbates far more headaches than most people realise...


----------



## Bethanjane22

Jesthar said:


> For those of you with headaches, make sure you are drinking enough water. Dehydration causes or exacerbates far more headaches than most people realise...


Definitely good advice, I've noticed I've been feeling quite de-hydrated since having the booster and the nurse who administered the vaccine did advise drinking plenty of water. I'll make a conscious effort to drink more water today.


----------



## Cleo38

Jesthar said:


> For those of you with headaches, make sure you are drinking enough water. Dehydration causes or exacerbates far more headaches than most people realise...


Good point but unfortunately if I drink too much then I ended up vomiting. I'm trying to just take small sips which is difficult for me as I tend to gulp down my drinks


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Just leaving this here for anyone that needs a "be kind to themselves" reminder. It's like Oscar modelled for it 










Sending love and kind thoughts to anyone here that needs it xx


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> Just leaving this here for anyone that needs a "be kind to themselves" reminder. It's like Oscar modelled for it
> 
> View attachment 483027
> 
> 
> Sending love and kind thoughts to anyone here that needs it xx


xx thank you xx


----------



## ForestWomble

Mrs Funkin said:


> Just leaving this here for anyone that needs a "be kind to themselves" reminder. It's like Oscar modelled for it
> 
> View attachment 483027
> 
> 
> Sending love and kind thoughts to anyone here that needs it xx


Thank you, needed that.

Been feeling really down since the news, I feel so trapped


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @ForestWomble I'm so sorry to read that, try to look after yourself and be kind to yourself. I'm feeling very anxious about Covid today, too. A couple of colleagues were practically skipping around, all excited that the mask rule is going and that they can do what they like very soon. I dread to think how people feel who have been shielders. I'm fit and in reasonable condition health-wise and I am frightened of getting Covid - though today I have admitted to myself and everyone at work that it's Long Covid I am scared of. I think people need to respect that's how I feel.

So that's why I'm trying to be kind to myself the next few days. I'm rubbish at it - but I think if I'm not careful the next few days, I'm going to have a problem.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Now OH joined the kids and I am the only one still standing.
As my son stated I can’t get sick because who would walk the dog?
So I am staying well for now. To walk the dog.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Hope they aren't feeling too terrible @cheekyscrip


----------



## cheekyscrip

Mrs Funkin said:


> Hope they aren't feeling too terrible @cheekyscrip


All the lot was vaccinated so kids not too bad but OH has man flu!


----------



## rona

cheekyscrip said:


> Now OH joined the kids and I am the only one still standing.
> As my son stated I can't get sick because who would walk the dog?
> So I am staying well for now. To walk the dog.





cheekyscrip said:


> All the lot was vaccinated so kids not too bad but OH has man flu!


Hoping OH stays at flu symptoms.

Surely daughter will be free tomorrow and son on Sunday, if you do come down with it,(hope not),they could walk the dog?


----------



## cheekyscrip

rona said:


> Hoping OH stays at flu symptoms.
> 
> Surely daughter will be free tomorrow and son on Sunday, if you do come down with it,(hope not),they could walk the dog?


She is having not the best time of it as it came on the top of her other health issues..
The son is getting better and OH is doing fine.
Garfield though seems to be affected so I put him back on meds …

The worst is doing all the shopping and everything else on my own on the top of working and studying…sitting in the mask all day long…


----------



## Pawscrossed

A very moving interview with Roopa Farooki the novelist whom I hadn't realised had retrained as a doctor.


----------



## MollySmith

By sketch artist Tanmay Vora for Brene Brown podcast


----------



## rona

Going up and up in my area. I think a school may be fueling it


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Going up and up in my area. I think a school may be fueling it


Interesting, it's been going down steadily here and there is children plus the agricultural college


----------



## lullabydream

Siskin said:


> Interesting, it's been going down steadily here and there is children plus the agricultural college


Going up here, schools are terrible, not known a child not to have had it. 
I will say it's never really affected us before till now. Which is no surprise with omicron


----------



## Siskin

lullabydream said:


> Going up here, schools are terrible, not known a child not to have had it.
> I will say it's never really affected us before till now. Which is no surprise with omicron


It's possible that my area was hit by it earlier, perhaps in December as we did have much higher figures then


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> Going up here, schools are terrible, not known a child not to have had it.
> I will say it's never really affected us before till now. Which is no surprise with omicron





Siskin said:


> It's possible that my area was hit by it earlier, perhaps in December as we did have much higher figures then


Our figures have always been considerably lower than the national average. Maybe we've been hit hard this time because of low levels of natural immunity


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Our figures have always been considerably lower than the national average. Maybe we've been hit hard this time because of low levels of natural immunity


It's been the same here apart from the rise in December


----------



## Jobeth

It’s always been above the national average here and even made it into the top 20 worst areas several times. I know it’s definitely ‘when’ and not ‘if’ I’ll catch it.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> It's always been above the national average here and even made it into the top 20 worst areas several times. I know it's definitely 'when' and not 'if' I'll catch it.


My son says the same. My DIL works as a carer in a home for autistic adults and despite everyone being vaccinated, boosted and tested several time each week, practically everyone has become infected. Her mother is in a care home in Scotland who've stopped family visits because of the increase of new infections in the staff and residents


----------



## Cleo38

Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.

Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.

Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.

I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.
> 
> Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.
> 
> I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


It's a known risk of the vaccine - a rise in BP for some people who are susceptible. 
I'm so glad you got medical attention, that sounds really scary! I hope you get some answers. 
How's the swelling in your arm?


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.
> 
> Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.
> 
> I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


My word you've had a horrible and scary time especially passing out. I hope you continue to recover well. Sounds like you need to steer clear of Covid vaccines


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> It's a known risk of the vaccine - a rise in BP for some people who are susceptible.
> I'm so glad you got medical attention, that sounds really scary! I hope you get some answers.
> How's the swelling in your arm?


It really was awful, I honestly thought I was going to die & all I could think about was the dogs. I had bought my new puppy home as well that day so she's had to go back to the breeder till I'm better. My arm is fine now tho so that's good

Yes, the doctor gave me lots of advice yesterday but I need to go through it all again on our follow up appt as I wasn't able to take it all in. I can't fault them there tho. Although I was there all day to be monitored everything was done very well & I was told what was happening & reassured.

Unbelievable really as I'm the right weight, get plenty of exercise , plant based diet, no booze .... I should be feeling amazing!! 

I just wanted to know if others had noted anything of BP raising & to inform those who do have high BP to maybe look at readings prior & afterwards or discuss with th GP as this was a truly horrendous experience


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> My word you've had a horrible and scary time especially passing out. I hope you continue to recover well. Sounds like you need to steer clear of Covid vaccines


It was awful. I don't remember passing out, I just went to the bathroom to be sick again then must have collapsed. I woke up on the bathroom floor to find my new puppy sleeping in me. Poor girl, she must have wondered what was going on. Not the best first night for her. Luckily she's gone back to the breeder till I'm better as I couldn't have coped & it wouldn't have been fair on her


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> It was awful. I don't remember passing out, I just went to the bathroom to be sick again then must have collapsed. I woke up ton the bathroom floor to find my new puppy sleeping in me. Poor girl, she must have wondered what was going on. Not the best first night for her. Luckily she's gone back to the breeder till I'm better as I couldn't have coped with her & it wouldn't have been fair on her


Do hope you feel better soon and your new pup can come back to you. Looking forward to seeing photos.


----------



## ForestWomble

Hope you feel better soon @Cleo38 what a frightening experience for you.

A family member had a raise of their blood pressure and suffered a few falls because of it, thankfully not as bad as what you've been through though.


----------



## Cleo38

ForestWomble said:


> Hope you feel better soon @Cleo38 what a frightening experience for you.
> 
> A family member had a raise of their blood pressure and suffered a few falls because of it, thankfully not as bad as what you've been through though.


Thanks & hope your family member is ok now. Hopefully my meds will kick in soon 

NB- I don't want to worry anyone with what happened to me or put anyone off having a vaccine but did just want to know if others had experienced anything relating to their BP following the vaccine. Maybe we should be more aware of this risk as I honestly can't remember reading about it on the leaflet I was given afterwards


----------



## Arny

Cleo38 said:


> Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.
> 
> Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.
> 
> I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


How scary! Glad you're on the mend now.
My dad suffers with high blood pressure but didn't have any noticeable side effects like yours but he is on medication for it.


----------



## Boxer123

Glad your on the mend @Cleo38 i was getting worried you'd been quiet for a few days. This is very scary.

What is this about a new puppy !


----------



## Siskin

I have a tendency towards low BP, didn't notice any changes when boosted. Which booster did you have @Cleo38?


----------



## Cleo38

Boxer123 said:


> Glad your on the mend @Cleo38 i was getting worried you'd been quiet for a few days. This is very scary.
> 
> What is this about a new puppy !


Hahahaha! She's a bicolour GSD called Marnie. I collected her on Saturday from my friend (who is also Archer & Kato's breeder). She lovely, very confident but also very cuddly. Archer wasn't keen on her so was probably quite glad when she went back but Kato was great with her. Actually gentle for a change 

Hopefully I can pick her up again at the weekend if I am better



Siskin said:


> I have a tendency towards low BP, didn't notice any changes when boosted. Which booster did you have @Cleo38?


I had the Pfizer one this time & Astra Zenica for the initial vaccinations.

With the AZ I had the same flu like symptoms but with the Pfizer one I also had a terrible headache which was gradually getting worse. I didn't have that with the AZ ones


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahaha! She's a bicolour GSD called Marnie. I collected her on Saturday from my friend (who is also Archer & Kato's breeder). She lovely, very confident but also very cuddly. Archer wasn't keen on her so was probably quite glad when she went back but Kato was great with her. Actually gentle for a change
> 
> Hopefully I can pick her up again at the weekend if I am better
> 
> I had the Pfizer one this time & Astra Zenica for the initial vaccinations.
> 
> With the AZ I had the same flu like symptoms but with the Pfizer one I also had a terrible headache which was gradually getting worse. I didn't have that with the AZ ones


I had the same ones as you. Nothing noticeable with the AZ but I did have a 24 hour headache after the Pfizer which I just couldn't shift with painkillers that normally work


----------



## ForestWomble

Cleo38 said:


> Thanks & hope your family member is ok now. Hopefully my meds will kick in soon
> 
> NB- I don't want to worry anyone with what happened to me or put anyone off having a vaccine but did just want to know if others had experienced anything relating to the BP following the vaccine. Maybe we should be more aware of this risk as I honestly can't remember reading about it on the leaflet I was given afterwards


Thank you. I think they are just trying to get the medication amount right, but otherwise OK as far as I'm aware.


----------



## Boxer123

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahaha! She's a bicolour GSD called Marnie. I collected her on Saturday from my friend (who is also Archer & Kato's breeder). She lovely, very confident but also very cuddly. Archer wasn't keen on her so was probably quite glad when she went back but Kato was great with her. Actually gentle for a change
> 
> Hopefully I can pick her up again at the weekend if I am better
> 
> I had the Pfizer one this time & Astra Zenica for the initial vaccinations.
> 
> With the AZ I had the same flu like symptoms but with the Pfizer one I also had a terrible headache which was gradually getting worse. I didn't have that with the AZ ones


Archer will be disappointed when she turns up again sox sends sympathy. We must have piccies.


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> I had the same ones as you. Nothing noticeable with the AZ but I did have a 24 hour headache after the Pfizer which I just couldn't shift with painkillers that normally work


Yes, mine started on the Tuesday. I don't really get headaches unless I've had too many gins .... but am doing Dry January so that's not a factor

Still got a headache which is getting better with the meds I have been prescribed.

And @Boxer123 am sure poor spoilt Archer will be most upset when Marnie returns!!


----------



## O2.0

This is a good article on the risk (minimal) of increased BP
It seems to be more of a risk if you're already susceptible to high BP, so something to keep in mind if that applies to you. 
https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/answers/2021/hypertension


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Flipping heck @Cleo38 how terrifying! I'm so glad you are okay and feeling on more of an even keel now. Jeepers. No more Covid jabs for you, I reckon! Hope they get to the bottom of what's going on.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.
> 
> Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.
> 
> I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


 That is very frightening and I hope you are OK now? I have never heard of this as a side-effect and when I had first and second vax (at my own GP) I received neither a vaccination card, nor any literature and my GP who did the vaccination (who knows I am medication for high BP) said nothing. Not sure how to read 255/135 - I know mine went up 189/80 (not after a vaccination) and the nurse consulted the GP who simply increased the dose of meds.; so 255/135 sounds unbelievable. I hope you are feeling better now - me too, I would have wondered if I was having a stroke. Poor you. No-one at my surgery has suggested a BP check since two years ago! I expect you will report it to the Yellow Card scheme (or will your GP do that? Not sure that mine would bother).


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> Not sure whether I ned to start new thread but .... I posted previously about my side effects after the booster but things took a turn for the worse on Saturday night when my headache got so bad that I started vomiting again, had a fever & felt like my head was going to explode. I rang 999 but they didn't have an ambulance & said I had to make my own way there (how I'm not sure!). I then passed out & when I came round I just went to bed. I felt dreadful in the morning but better so I thought I would be ok. But again I stared feeling dreadful. As I have a family history of strokes I was so worried as I'd never had pain like this in my head before.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday I was at Addenbrooke's hospital having tests & a scan of my head. Luckily all looked ok but my temperature was up & my blood pressure was averaging at 255/135 throughout the day I was there which was obviously way too high.
> 
> Although I had previously suffered from hypertension years ago I had not had any issues with my BP since as I regularly check it & lead a healthy lifestyle. There is history of hypertension in my family & I do think that maybe i am more susceptible to this but am also wondering if there is a link to my booster as I can't understand why this would suddenly come on. The Dr I saw yesterday said there was some evidence to show this but it was a very small number of patients in the study but she was going to look in to it & we can discuss when I have my follow up appt on Thursday.
> 
> I have been given various meds & do feel a bit better so am hoping that I will be ok in a few days but I just wondered if anyone on here had noted a rise in their BP at all.


I'm sorry to hear this. It must be have been very frightening.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> That is very frightening and I hope you are OK now? I have never heard of this as a side-effect and when I had first and second vax (at my own GP) I received neither a vaccination card, nor any literature and my GP who did the vaccination (who knows I am medication for high BP) said nothing. Not sure how to read 255/135 - I know mine went up 189/80 (not after a vaccination) and the nurse consulted the GP who simply increased the dose of meds.; so 255/135 sounds unbelievable. I hope you are feeling better now - me too, I would have wondered if I was having a stroke. Poor you. No-one at my surgery has suggested a BP check since two years ago! I expect you will report it to the Yellow Card scheme (or will your GP do that? Not sure that mine would bother).


I must admit after my initial vaccine jab (AZ) I didn't read anything, just assumed I'd be fine. Came home, did my work, walked the dogs, went for a short run, had a couple of G&T's that evening etc it was only in the night that the side effects came on & I felt dreadful for 48hrs but then it passed. So when i had my second jab I made sure that I'd taken paracetamol, didn't exert myself & didn't drink any alcohol. I still felt terrible but not as severe.

This one though has been horrible as I've posted about. I honestly have never had such a bad, persistent headache. I still don't feel well but I've been taking BP readings at several points during today & it has come down to an average of 195/125 which is still way too high but better.

If I were you I would definitely get your BP checked regularly to make sure it is still at acceptable levels especially, your GP should be doing this really. You can also get home kits so you can keep a check yourself. I think mine was about £30 from Amazon

My headache still persists but is manageable.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> This one though has been horrible as I've posted about. I honestly have never had such a bad, persistent headache. I still don't feel well but I've been taking BP readings at several points during today & it has come down to an average of 195/125 which is still way too high but better.


Did you get any instructions as to what to do if your BP continues to be this high? Cause yes, that's way too high and seems unsafe!


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> Did you get any instructions as to what to do if your BP continues to be this high? Cause yes, that's way too high and seems unsafe!


 I cant remember. I have an appt tomorrow so will ask.

I have just joined a high BP FB group to ask some questions & tbh its scary how many people have a similar story to mine.

I was talking to a young bloke in Maryland who was fit, healthy, plsyed sports, vetc. 5 dsys after his Pfizer booster he collapsed in the street. BP readings similar to mine. Its taken him 6wks to get things sorted & feel well.

I honestly wish I had read more before getting this booster


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I cant remember. I have an appt tomorrow so will ask.
> 
> I have just joined a high BP FB group to ask some questions & tbh its scary how many people have a similar story to mine.
> 
> I was talking to a young bloke in Maryland who was fit, healthy, plsyed sports, vetc. 5 dsys after his Pfizer booster he collapsed in the street. BP readings similar to mine. Its taken him 6wks to get things sorted & feel well.
> 
> I honestly wish I had read more




I really wish we were talking about the vaccine risks more. 
No vaccine is 100% safe and we have to weigh the risks of infection against the vaccine risk. Particularly with boosters that I'm still not convinced are necessary for everyone in the population.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> I really wish we were talking about the vaccine risks more.
> No vaccine is 100% safe and we have to weigh the risks of infection against the vaccine risk. Particularly with boosters that I'm still not convinced are necessary for everyone in the population.


I agree & I also think medical professionals should be listening more to those of us who have suffered side effects. Alot of people in the FB group were complaining that they were being ignored or fobbed off.

I hsd similar when I started telling my GP. Apparently it couldn't be the vaccine!!!


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> its scary how many people have a similar story to mine.


Lord, that is seriously scary. I have not had the booster, and after reading this I'm glad I haven't. Hope you are feeling better now - but that is really awful, you really could have had a stroke. I do have a BP monitor, but I am fairly sure even taking a reading makes mine go up, just that awful cuff tightening round your arm - I half expect my arm to drop off.
What sort of puppy have you got, anyway?


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> they were being ignored or fobbed off.


That does not surprise me one bit - and of course, were it not for social media we would never know half of what goes on.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Lord, that is seriously scary. I have not had the booster, and after reading this I'm glad I haven't. Hope you are feeling better now - but that is really awful, you really could have had a stroke. I do have a BP monitor, but I am fairly sure even taking a reading makes mine go up, just that awful cuff tightening round your arm - I half expect my arm to drop off.
> What sort of puppy have you got, anyway?


I hate having my BP tested because the cuff tightening round my arm really hurts, and I'm sure my BP level takes a giant leap for the worst


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I hate having my BP tested because the cuff tightening round my arm really hurts, and I'm sure my BP level takes a giant leap for the worst


 It's a horrible sensation - worse than any injection for me!


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> It's a horrible sensation - worse than any injection for me!


I agree! I'm usually pretty good with most medical procedures, but having my BP taken freaks me out.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> That does not surprise me one bit - and of course, were it not for social media we would never know half of what goes on.


Exactly! Whilst I have to be mindful that some people will be anti - vaxers, some may be ill by coincidence, etc there are far too many people whose stories I have read that are so similar to mine. The man in Maryland I was chatting to on FB messenger, a dance teacher in Ireland & several people in the UK. All ended up collapsing & having very high BP or heart problems but no-one wanted to link it (or even consider linking it) to the vaccine.

I feel dreadful again today. My headache woke me up in the night so I didn't sleep much. BP now reading at 210/135 range again this morning


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Lord, that is seriously scary. I have not had the booster, and after reading this I'm glad I haven't. Hope you are feeling better now - but that is really awful, you really could have had a stroke. I do have a BP monitor, but I am fairly sure even taking a reading makes mine go up, just that awful cuff tightening round your arm - I half expect my arm to drop off.
> What sort of puppy have you got, anyway?


Another GSD! I thought I might be collecting her again at the weekend but now I don't think that will happen as I feel so ill again


----------



## HarlequinCat

Gosh @Cleo38 hope you're feeling more yourself soon! Sounds scary, what you went through. I felt rough with mine but nothing like that.

@Calvine and @Magyarmum I'm the same, I had to use one of those self testing BP machines at our gp, you stick your arm through a hole and it tightens and takes a reading. It kept on coming out highish because the sound of the machine was unnerving and I thought I'd get trapped . 
Even when the docs used to do it I'd have to tell them it wouldn't be a good reading because I was too anxious.

Think they call it white coat syndrome


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I feel dreadful again today. My headache woke me up in the night so I didn't sleep much. BP now reading at 210/135 range again this morning


Oh gosh that's really high! If your follow up appointment isn't in the morning I would try to be seen before then. 
Here anything over 190 is worth a hospitalization until it stabilizes.


----------



## Calvine

HarlequinCat said:


> Gosh @Cleo38 hope you're feeling more yourself soon! Sounds scary, what you went through. I felt rough with mine but nothing like that.
> 
> @Calvine and @Magyarmum I'm the same, I had to use one of those self testing BP machines at our gp, you stick your arm through a hole and it tightens and takes a reading. It kept on coming out highish because the sound of the machine was unnerving and I thought I'd get trapped .
> Even when the docs used to do it I'd have to tell them it wouldn't be a good reading because I was too anxious.
> 
> Think they call it white coat syndrome


Yes, white coat syndrome it's called. . . though going in for the two vaccinations didn't alarm me, neither do dentists, but that nasty band round the top of your arm . . . my hand actually goes red and starts tingling. And the way they ask which arm you prefer them to attack - as if it makes any difference.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I feel so ill again


I am so sorry to hear this . . . look after yourself; that is awful. XX

ETA: I have never heard of a BP that high, I did not know it was even possible. Surely normal is 120/80 (ish)?


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> I am so sorry to hear this . . . look after yourself; that is awful. XX
> 
> ETA: I have never heard of a BP that high, I did not know it was even possible. Surely normal is 120/80 (ish)?


Me neither. When I was in the hospital there was me & a young woman who were both setting the machines off .... flashing red lights, the 'danger' sign illuminated & a loud klaxon noise .... in the end we were laughing as it was so awful. It did relieve the tension a bit tbh.

Just got back from the Dr's. Have an increase in meds & some more to take alongside. Felt like I was going to pass out again earlier as my headache was so bad but feel a bit better now


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Me neither. When I was in the hospital there was me & a young woman who were both setting the machines off .... flashing red lights, the 'danger' sign illuminated & a loud klaxon noise .... in the end we were laughing as it was so awful. It did relieve the tension a bit tbh.
> 
> Just got back from the Dr's. Have an increase in meds & some more to take alongside. Felt like I was going to pass out again earlier as my headache was so bad but feel a bit better now


I do hope you improve soon, this sounds awful


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> I hsd similar when I started telling my GP. Apparently it couldn't be the vaccine!!!


This dismissive attitude is a bit sad to hear definitely but I think your GP may be genuinely unaware that these adverse effects have been reported. The amount of studies investigating this is very lacking and some report an incidence rate below 1%. It is postulated that it is found in people already diagnosed with hypertension or people with undiagnosed/borderline hypertension. I think the reason why this was not listed on the booklet will be that a causal link has not been found. There is no known mechanism behind why an mRNA vaccine would cause a rise in blood pressure aside from short term (eg- anxiety). I think because the literature on the subject is lacking there is not enough high quality evidence to include this as a potential side effect.

I hope the blood pressure falls back to normal levels soon. What you're describing sounds awful. I'd really recommend you report your experience through the yellow card scheme (if you haven't already). More reports of this will help drive research into this area.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Me neither. When I was in the hospital there was me & a young woman who were both setting the machines off .... flashing red lights, the 'danger' sign illuminated & a loud klaxon noise .... in the end we were laughing as it was so awful. It did relieve the tension a bit tbh.
> 
> Just got back from the Dr's. Have an increase in meds & some more to take alongside. Felt like I was going to pass out again earlier as my headache was so bad but feel a bit better now


OH's has gotten up to 220 with a bad migraine, they pumped him full of just about everything for both pain and BP trying to get it down. It really is dangerous to have it up that high, I'm surprised they sent you home again! 
I'm glad you're taking measurements at home, please go back if it doesn't go down today. Hugs to you!


----------



## ForestWomble

Just sending my hope you feel better soon thoughts to you @Cleo38.


----------



## Dimwit

Cleo38 said:


> Me neither. When I was in the hospital there was me & a young woman who were both setting the machines off .... flashing red lights, the 'danger' sign illuminated & a loud klaxon noise .... in the end we were laughing as it was so awful. It did relieve the tension a bit tbh.
> 
> Just got back from the Dr's. Have an increase in meds & some more to take alongside. Felt like I was going to pass out again earlier as my headache was so bad but feel a bit better now


I am so sorry you are feeling so bad - it must be very scary!
I hope the meds start to work soon and you feel better - and can't wait to some puppy photos when you finally get to bring her home for good.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh heck @Cleo38 I hope it improves - and you feel better as a result - very very soon. So scary


----------



## Cleo38

bmr10 said:


> This dismissive attitude is a bit sad to hear definitely but I think your GP may be genuinely unaware that these adverse effects have been reported. The amount of studies investigating this is very lacking and some report an incidence rate below 1%. It is postulated that it is found in people already diagnosed with hypertension or people with undiagnosed/borderline hypertension. I think the reason why this was not listed on the booklet will be that a causal link has not been found. There is no known mechanism behind why an mRNA vaccine would cause a rise in blood pressure aside from short term (eg- anxiety). I think because the literature on the subject is lacking there is not enough high quality evidence to include this as a potential side effect.
> 
> I hope the blood pressure falls back to normal levels soon. What you're describing sounds awful. I'd really recommend you report your experience through the yellow card scheme (if you haven't already). More reports of this will help drive research into this area.


I think it's quite scary that the link is being played down. There are so many stories on a Hypertension FB group I joined & whilst I would agree that not all will be related, nearly every person said their GP was almost reluctant to record that incidents had happened after the Covid vaccine (people also reported the same as me in that they collapsed 4-5 days after the vaccine). I actually had to argue with my GP to get her to put it on my records as I asked today & found that it was omitted ... why? I would have thought that as much info as possible should be taken. Even when I spoke to the Dr from 111 she immediately told me that it wasn't related when that is completely untrue. It didn't take me long to find a study regarding elevated BP levels so why are medical professional unaware? It may be a small study but if I can find it in a few minutes then why can't they?

I have reported it via the yellow card scheme but surely GP's should also be doing similar with patients. This has put me off completely & I will never have another Covid vaccine again & anything I have in future I will be far more suspicious of.



Dimwit said:


> I am so sorry you are feeling so bad - it must be very scary!
> I hope the meds start to work soon and you feel better - and can't wait to some puppy photos when you finally get to bring her home for good.


Hopefully, have some more today & follow appt tomorrow afternoon. If my readings haven't gone down then I might have to go in to hospital at the weekend. I've sorted out care for my animals so that's one worry off my mind but am dreading it if I have to as I've never had to stay in a hospital before. Luckily I have some very nice dog PJ's to wear but no slippers as Kato has chewed them up!


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> I think it's quite scary that the link is being played down. There are so many stories on a Hypertension FB group I joined & whilst I would agree that not all will be related, nearly every person said their GP was almost reluctant to record that incidents had happened after the Covid vaccine (people also reported the same as me in that they collapsed 4-5 days after the vaccine). I actually had to argue with my GP to get her to put it on my records as I asked today & found that it was omitted ... why? I would have thought that as much info as possible should be taken. Even when I spoke to the Dr from 111 she immediately told me that it wasn't related when that is completely untrue. It didn't take me long to find a study regarding elevated BP levels so why are medical professional unaware? It may be a small study but if I can find it in a few minutes then why can't they?
> 
> I have reported it via the yellow card scheme but surely GP's should also be doing similar with patients. This has put me off completely & I will never have another Covid vaccine again & anything I have in future I will be far more suspicious of.
> 
> Hopefully, have some more today & follow appt tomorrow afternoon. If my readings haven't gone down then I might have to go in to hospital at the weekend. Luckily I've sorted out care for my animals so that's one worry off my mind but am dreading it if I have to as I've never had to stay in a hospital before. Luckily I have some very nice dog PJ's to wear but no slippers as Kato has chewed them up!


Don't worry about slippers, they have socks with those rubbery bits that are non slip. Don't look so good but keep your feet warm and your safe walking on them.


----------



## Boxer123

Sorry to hear your feeling ill again @Cleo38 i think people are being fobbed off with regards to side effects. It is a discussion we should be able to have. Look after yourself.


----------



## Cully

@Cleo38 , I hope you are feeling better today.
I totally agree that side effects are not being treated seriously enough and just don't understand the reluctance to record them on patients records. It really does make you wonder what they are trying to hide. It's that sort of thing that will affect future take up of _any_ vaccines, not just covid!


----------



## 1507601

Magyarmum said:


> I agree! I'm usually pretty good with most medical procedures, but having my BP taken freaks me out.


I'm so glad it's not just me! My husband hates doing mine at home (has been necessary because of low blood pressure episodes) because I sit there with my eyes squeezed shut clinging to his arm, clearly upset. I've been close to yanking the thing off my arm at the doctors in the past. It's horrible.

@Cleo38 I'm sorry to hear what you've been through and hope you feel back to normal soon. I felt much more ill after my booster than either of my previous two vaccines (all Pfizer) and don't understand how it can get worse each time, but it doesn't bode well in my opinion.


----------



## Cleo38

I hope it doesn't seem that I have taken over the thread with my woes. As I said previously I would hate to put anyone off having the vaccination but just wanted to find out if others had experienced anything similar afterwards.

I also wanted to try & get people to be more aware especially if they were suffering from hypertension (or another other condition), or had done previously or had a family history then maybe discuss with a medical professional to try & get some answers. Also to maybe put some key words in to Google Scholar to find any related studies as I did. 

This blanket push for getting everyone vaccinated without any consideration of their individual health is not right IMO


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> I think it's quite scary that the link is being played down. There are so many stories on a Hypertension FB group I joined & whilst I would agree that not all will be related, nearly every person said their GP was almost reluctant to record that incidents had happened after the Covid vaccine (people also reported the same as me in that they collapsed 4-5 days after the vaccine). I actually had to argue with my GP to get her to put it on my records as I asked today & found that it was omitted ... why? I would have thought that as much info as possible should be taken. Even when I spoke to the Dr from 111 she immediately told me that it wasn't related when that is completely untrue. It didn't take me long to find a study regarding elevated BP levels so why are medical professional unaware? It may be a small study but if I can find it in a few minutes then why can't they?
> 
> I have reported it via the yellow card scheme but surely GP's should also be doing similar with patients. This has put me off completely & I will never have another Covid vaccine again & anything I have in future I will be far more suspicious of.
> 
> Hopefully, have some more today & follow appt tomorrow afternoon. If my readings haven't gone down then I might have to go in to hospital at the weekend. I've sorted out care for my animals so that's one worry off my mind but am dreading it if I have to as I've never had to stay in a hospital before. Luckily I have some very nice dog PJ's to wear but no slippers as Kato has chewed them up!


Doctors are expected to continue their own professional development via keeping up to date with studies in their free time. They are reviewed on this regularly. With a topic as current as covid it is surprising they are not researching it at home but truthfully the amount that doctors read new literature in their feee time does vary as they may likely be involved in teaching and studies outside of their work. They also follow recommendations from NICE who only make clinical recommendations when the evidence is substantial and high enough quality.

I'm not a doctor so I don't know the full picture but I am surprised too that it was brushed off. I had a similar experience with a previous medication that I was on and felt very hurt but also shocked that a medical professional would shut down the idea of learning more. Despite my best efforts to explain my reasoning he would not consider it at all. Not really the best example of patient cantered care like.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I actually had to argue with my GP to get her to put it on my records as I asked today & found that it was omitted


That is actually really weird and, although generally not a conspiracy theorist, I suspect that there is some sort of cover-up (or maybe the practice is just incompetent); I'd write a letter to the practice manager when you feel a bit more with-it. The side effects you describe are far more than just few aches and pains. I hope you are feeling better. 
Pity about the slippers - hopefully they won't be needed.


----------



## Cleo38

bmr10 said:


> Doctors are expected to continue their own professional development via keeping up to date with studies in their free time. They are reviewed on this regularly. With a topic as current as covid it is surprising they are not researching it at home but truthfully the amount that doctors read new literature in their feee time does vary as they may likely be involved in teaching and studies outside of their work. They also follow recommendations from NICE who only make clinical recommendations when the evidence is substantial and high enough quality.
> 
> I'm not a doctor so I don't know the full picture but I am surprised too that it was brushed off. I had a similar experience with a previous medication that I was on and felt very hurt but also shocked that a medical professional would shut down the idea of learning more. Despite my best efforts to explain my reasoning he would not consider it at all. Not really the best example of patient cantered care like.


I accept that the medical profession is so busy, understaffed, etc I really do understand that & reading literature in their spare time must be difficult to prioritise some days but ..... a few mins to Google a study was all that was needed. In the end I sent the link via an email after I realised that the Covid booster wasn't mentioned in my notes. TBH I don't want to argue with anyone atm as I want to get my BP readings down not elevate them! 

I agree, as a patient it is very frustrating (& worrying) when a Dr refuses to acknowledge your experiences. When I am well enough I am going to challenge this more & ask some questions as I just don't understand. I tried to give as much info as I could relating to my lifestyle, any changes, medication, etc & that IMO was a key factor


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> When I am well enough I am going to challenge this more


You really must. You may, of course, call me cynical, and I think up to a point I am; but I read some time back, when we were all (literally) queuing round the block to get primary vaccinations, that GPs in England were getting handsomely paid for each vaccination, of which, of course, there were millions. Could it be that they do not want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by publicising the fact that there more of a risk of side effects than is generally acknowledged - who knows?


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> You really must. You may, of course, call me cynical, and I think up to a point I am; but I read some time back, when we were all (literally) queuing round the block to get primary vaccinations, that GPs in England were getting handsomely paid for each vaccination, of which, of course, there were millions. Could it be that they do not want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by publicising the fact that there more of a risk of side effects than is generally acknowledged - who knows?


An interesting article from Reuters Fact Check that you might like to read.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-gp-vaccines-idUSKBN28D39G

*Fact check: Payments for delivery of COVID-19 vaccines are to ensure general practices can afford to offer the service*


----------



## rona

So, 4 of our local surgeries had a share in £40,000 a week in the height of the covid vaccination program, even though most of the vaccination site was run by volunteers!! 

Not sure what I think of that 
£10,000 each for 2 days work a week, with 4 of them involved that may have been £40,000 for two days work a month


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> So, 4 of our local surgeries had a share in £40,000 a week in the height of the covid vaccination program, even though most of the vaccination site was run by volunteers!!
> 
> Not sure what I think of that
> £10,000 each for 2 days work a week, with 4 of them involved that may have been £40,000 for two days work a month


Wow - so £10k each regardless of the number of 'victims' each of them did.?


----------



## £54etgfb6

Cleo38 said:


> I accept that the medical profession is so busy, understaffed, etc I really do understand that & reading literature in their spare time must be difficult to prioritise some days but ..... a few mins to Google a study was all that was needed. In the end I sent the link via an email after I realised that the Covid booster wasn't mentioned in my notes. TBH I don't want to argue with anyone atm as I want to get my BP readings down not elevate them!
> 
> I agree, as a patient it is very frustrating (& worrying) when a Dr refuses to acknowledge your experiences. When I am well enough I am going to challenge this more & ask some questions as I just don't understand. I tried to give as much info as I could relating to my lifestyle, any changes, medication, etc & that IMO was a key factor


Doctor are not always right but sometimes they forget this I think! Part of the introduction of patient centred care and move away from paternal medicine is that often patients have suggestions and ideas that doctors would never consider and so it's vital to include the patient in decision making processes. Dismissing a patients concerns doesn't count as that, in my opinion. I'm glad you emailed them. Hopefully they take the information on board and open up to the possibility that more of their patients may experience this. You'd do well to challenge the doctors attitude as regardless of what prior knowledge they had, a longterm severe rise in BP right after a medical procedure warrants looking into! As before, I hope it falls soon and you're feeling a bit better.


----------



## ForestWomble

I've been umming and ahhing over sharing this, and Mods if you feel it's 'scare-mongering' or anything please just delete and I say sorry in advance, but a different family member to the one I mentioned earlier suffered a blood clot after their booster, same situation as @Cleo38 in that the doctors refuse to entertain the idea that it was the booster that caused it, they never had issues with their heart as far as they were aware, ended up in hospital, their heart was inflammed and they were suffering with water retention, while in hospital it was discovered they had a blood clot. Thankfully they are now home and well.


----------



## Cleo38

ForestWomble said:


> I've been umming and ahhing over sharing this, and Mods if you feel it's 'scare-mongering' or anything please just delete and I say sorry in advance, but a different family member to the one I mentioned earlier suffered a blood clot after their booster, same situation as @Cleo38 in that the doctors refuse to entertain the idea that it was the booster that caused it, they never had issues with their heart as far as they were aware, ended up in hospital, their heart was inflammed and they were suffering with water retention, while in hospital it was discovered they had a blood clot. Thankfully they are now home and well.


Wow, so pleased they are now well. I am glad you posted & tbh I felt exactly the same when I shared my experience. I also do not want to cause alarm or create fear but I do think we need to be aware & to question medicals professional regarding their information gathering.

I feel much better today, I woke up 'normally' rather than because of the pain in my head, first time in 10 days. I still have a headache but nowhere near as bad. I tested my BP this morning first thing which was 185/110 & just now which was 165/106. I know this is still high but nowhere near what my previous readings were. Am so very relieved. Hope it continues so I can bring Marnie home


----------



## ForestWomble

Cleo38 said:


> Wow, so pleased they are now well. I am glad you posted & tbh I felt exactly the same when I shared my experience. I also do not want to cause alarm or create fear but I do think we need to be aware & to question medicals professional regarding their information gathering.
> 
> I feel much better today, I woke up 'normally' rather than because of the pain in my head, first time in 10 days. I still have a headache but nowhere near as bad. I tested my BP this morning first thing which was 185/110 & just now which was 165/106. I know this is still high but nowhere near what my previous readings were. Am so very relieved. Hope it continues so I can bring Marnie home


Thank you. They were very lucky the clot was found when it was!
Yes, I agree, we do need to be aware.

That's brilliant news, I hope you continue to feel better


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Wow - so £10k each regardless of the number of 'victims' each of them did.?


No, I worked it out from the figures that they said they did each day and the amount they were paid for each injection.


----------



## Cully

I'm confused. I thought if you had Pfizer for your first two jabs then the booster would be different.
My healthy 43 yo son had 3 Pfizer's, two initial jabs and a booster. I don't understand why. Have I got it wrong?


----------



## HarlequinCat

Cully said:


> I'm confused. I thought if you had Pfizer for your first two jabs then the booster would be different.
> My healthy 43 yo son had 3 Pfizer's, two initial jabs and a booster. I don't understand why. Have I got it wrong?


I think if you had astra zeneca then you would have a different one as a booster. I have had pfizer for all of mine too. I think you just have what is available at the time


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Pfizer for all three here, too. I believe it was only Pfizer and moderna that were boosters.


----------



## Dobby65

Firstly, please don't think I am discounting anyone's experience with the vaccine, but I would just like to add my two pence worth. In the early 2000's Andrew Wakefield proposed the link between the MMR vaccine and autism. My eldest was a tiny baby then and so it was much discussed in the various baby groups.Now, the thing is, even though his claims were absolutely ludicrous and had NO scientific backing, I personally knew lots of mothers who agreed with him. One was adamant that her daughter's development had stopped and even regressed from the day of the vaccine, another one that it caused her son's autism. These women were convinced of the truth followin_g_ _their own_ experiences. I'm sure they were also aggrieved that their health visitors and GP's didn't take their concerns seriously. Years later, it's obvious that there is no causal link between the two. One result of this is that there are many, many young people in their early twenties who were never vaccinated. The problem is that when there is a mass vaccination program, there WILL be some people who develop certain conditions, and if enough of them make it known, there will appear to be a causal link when there is none. Some people developed serious side effects - and some even died - from the smallpox vaccine, but I'm sure no one would say that it would have been better to have got smallpox.


----------



## Cully

HarlequinCat said:


> I think if you had astra zeneca then you would have a different one as a booster. I have had pfizer for all of mine too. I think you just have what is available at the time


And @Mrs Funkin ,thanks, that's set my mind at rest. I was a bit worried as DS had all 3 jabs which were Pfizer and this week, a week after his booster, has developed a really sore arm and is feeling tired and a bit out of it. I was concerned it might be due to having 3 of the same but now I know that's the norm I'm not worried.


----------



## O2.0

Dobby65 said:


> The problem is that when there is a mass vaccination program, there WILL be some people who develop certain conditions, and if enough of them make it known, there will appear to be a causal link when there is none. Some people developed serious side effects - and some even died - from the smallpox vaccine, but I'm sure no one would say that it would have been better to have got smallpox.


A couple of things to unpack here. 
One, there has been a link shown between the covid vaccine and hypertension and blood clots. It is a KNOWN side-effect, the studies are readily available.

Yes, all vaccines carry a risk. And we should be properly informed of the risk vs. benefit of each vaccine so that if someone is prone to hypertension, they can keep an eye out for it and get proper treatment in time.

Covid is not smallpox. Smallpox is incredibly deadly and if you do survive you're left scarred for life. The risk of the vaccine is worth it because the disease is so dangerous. I have a smallpox vaccine scar and I'm happy to have it. If that vaccine had been available to my children they would have it too. 
However I don't get the flu vaccine every year. The last time I had a flu vaccine I was sick for a week. I've never been sick with any virus for that long, so the vaccine is not worth it to me.

We're still treating covid like the disease it was in March 2020 and it's not. We know much better how to treat the disease, we have treatments (monoclonal antibodies) we have a vaccine, the virus itself has mutated. 
There needs to be a real discussion about who's at risk for serious covid infection and long term effects and who isn't. I work with teenagers. Over 800 kids, most have gotten it at some point or another, and not one has been seriously affected. All of my fellow adult workers have also been fine. Yes, some have been very ill, but no hospitalizations, no long-covid, no deaths. Yes, we have had deaths in the community, just Tuesday I found out about another person who has died from complications from covid. So we need to be figuring out why some people get so sick and why others don't. And that's not a conversation that's happening. It's just vaccinate everyone, over and over again and instill fear in folks that everyone is at risk and everyone could end up with long covid. That's not the reality. Let's have more information and less fear-mongering.

______________________________

This is just general musings on my part....

When Covid hit NYC so badly and no one was vaccinated yet, and hospital workers, despite careful protections were also getting sick. But there were also many, many workers who were just as exposed as others who never got sick, never tested positive. Why has no one studied these people and tried to figure out what is protecting them? 
There are so many of us who have been repeatedly exposed to covid and never had a single symptom. Why are we not looking in to this? Why is no one funding a study on what antibodies these people have that seem to protect them? 
I also want some talented scientists looking in to why some people don't get covid at all. And looking in to why that is. Like Jenner who figured out that cowpox infection protects from smallpox, maybe there's something similar going on with covid?

I'm thrilled we have a vaccine for covid and I'm so very grateful to the scientists who made this possible and I hope we can get more and more people vaccinated - worldwide, not just in our parts of the world. I heard a great analogy the other day about some countries vaccinating so extensively, it's like making a 'no peeing' area in a public swimming pool and thinking if you just stay in that area you're safe.


----------



## O2.0

@Cully here in the US you can have either booster - moderna or pfizer, it doesn't matter which original vaccine you had. 
I had moderna, moderna, then pfizer. OH has had all pfizer. 
I chose pfizer for my booster because the second moderna shot made me sick for about 24 hours and I was hoping for less reaction with pfizer. Other than a sore arm, I was fine.


----------



## Jobeth

I’d be interested as well to know why people react so differently. I know some that have been hospitalised, some that have felt fine and some that have had long covid. I’m always around children and adults that aren’t masked but have managed to avoid it so far. I’ve also been in close contact several times. I’m careful but so are others.


----------



## Cleo38

Dobby65 said:


> Firstly, please don't think I am discounting anyone's experience with the vaccine, but I would just like to add my two pence worth. In the early 2000's Andrew Wakefield proposed the link between the MMR vaccine and autism. My eldest was a tiny baby then and so it was much discussed in the various baby groups.Now, the thing is, even though his claims were absolutely ludicrous and had NO scientific backing, I personally knew lots of mothers who agreed with him. One was adamant that her daughter's development had stopped and even regressed from the day of the vaccine, another one that it caused her son's autism. These women were convinced of the truth followin_g_ _their own_ experiences. I'm sure they were also aggrieved that their health visitors and GP's didn't take their concerns seriously. Years later, it's obvious that there is no causal link between the two. One result of this is that there are many, many young people in their early twenties who were never vaccinated. The problem is that when there is a mass vaccination program, there WILL be some people who develop certain conditions, and if enough of them make it known, there will appear to be a causal link when there is none. Some people developed serious side effects - and some even died - from the smallpox vaccine, but I'm sure no one would say that it would have been better to have got smallpox.


As @O2.0 discussed smallpox is very different from Covid. My post regarding my experience was mainly to alert people to a side effect that it not being listed. Many people suffer from hypertension (or have done previously) so are potentially at risk. The barrage of texts I was sent over the Christmas period to get my booster was excessive & in some ways looking back I felt pressurised in to getting the booster. I am angry with myself for letting this happen & not looking in to it more but I won't ever make the same mistake again.

As I said previously all experiences & reactions should be looked at, as much info should be taken to see & not covered up or omitted. I work from home now, I am not vulnerable & do not mix with vulnerable people so in some ways this booster was not important to me so i should have been given information to weigh up potential side effects against catching Covid.

I know what I would rather be suffering from atm & it is definitely not severe hypertension. Again my BP is sky high & I am unwell. This is not my opinion but I have data showing this. I also have data showing that previously I was well (my GP found that I had submitted BP readings end of last year which were normal).

Whilst I agree we do need to be careful about assuming the vaccine is to blame for any illnesses experienced afterwards but equally we need to accept that some of us are suffering & we need to be listened to. I posted on FB about my experience & had several people message to me to say they had experienced similar (or cardio issues) yet had been told it wasn't linked or made to feel that they were somehow scare mongering by talking about it .... that is NOT right


----------



## ForestWomble

Dobby65 said:


> Firstly, please don't think I am discounting anyone's experience with the vaccine, but I would just like to add my two pence worth. In the early 2000's Andrew Wakefield proposed the link between the MMR vaccine and autism. My eldest was a tiny baby then and so it was much discussed in the various baby groups.Now, the thing is, even though his claims were absolutely ludicrous and had NO scientific backing, I personally knew lots of mothers who agreed with him. One was adamant that her daughter's development had stopped and even regressed from the day of the vaccine, another one that it caused her son's autism. These women were convinced of the truth followin_g_ _their own_ experiences. I'm sure they were also aggrieved that their health visitors and GP's didn't take their concerns seriously. Years later, it's obvious that there is no causal link between the two. One result of this is that there are many, many young people in their early twenties who were never vaccinated. The problem is that when there is a mass vaccination program, there WILL be some people who develop certain conditions, and if enough of them make it known, there will appear to be a causal link when there is none. Some people developed serious side effects - and some even died - from the smallpox vaccine, but I'm sure no one would say that it would have been better to have got smallpox.


Some people suggesting a vaccine caused their childs autism (no proof), and a lot of people suddenly having heart issues after a vaccine (there is proof) are two very different things.

Also as mentioned smallpox and covid are two very different illnesses too.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> The barrage of texts I was sent over the Christmas period to get my booster


Agree totally with your post. Tell me about it: I am still getting them. They are even conning me - or trying to - that I have been ''prioritised'' for a booster. This I find strange, since when the vaccination program started a year ago, I was definitely not ''prioritised'' as ''vulnerable'' and nothing has changed. I was never going to have three vaccinations in one year anyway - and your episode has confirmed my decision. I hope you are soon feeling better.
ETA: Are you usually on medication for high BP?


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Agree totally with your post. Tell me about it: I am still getting them. They are even conning me - or trying to - that I have been ''prioritised'' for a booster. This I find strange, since when the vaccination program started a year ago, I was definitely not ''prioritised'' as ''vulnerable'' and nothing has changed. I was never going to have three vaccinations in one year anyway - and your episode has confirmed my decision. I hope you are soon feeling better.
> ETA: Are you usually on medication for high BP?


I had my 3rd booster jab last August. I never felt under any pressure to have it done. Over here it was made quite clear that the booster jab was available for anyone who wanted it.

We're now being offered a 4th booster jab, again if we want it! I'm considering whether or not to have it because from the research I've done, many people over the age of 75 plus didn't develop much immunity after being given two shots of the Sinopharm vaccine. I've also been reading the findings from Israel where the Sinopharm vaccine was extensively used which says the fourth shot gives a very high level of immunity.

Before I make a final decision I've decided to have my antibody level tested to get a better idea where I stand


----------



## Calvine

ForestWomble said:


> Also as mentioned smallpox and covid are two very different illnesses too.


Totally - the mortality rate for smallpox (%) was horrific. And as awful as Covid has been, the actual % death rate was very low - which is why many anti-vaxxers were saying ''Nah, stuff it, hardly anyone dies from it anyway'' (but that many died ''with it'', the actual cause of death being something else and that this was used in scaremongering tactics).


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Agree totally with your post. Tell me about it: I am still getting them. They are even conning me - or trying to - that I have been ''prioritised'' for a booster. This I find strange, since when the vaccination program started a year ago, I was definitely not ''prioritised'' as ''vulnerable'' and nothing has changed. I was never going to have three vaccinations in one year anyway - and your episode has confirmed my decision. I hope you are soon feeling better.
> ETA: Are you usually on medication for high BP?


Please don't let my experience put you off, I did want people to be aware tho & maybe bear in mind.

I was on BP meds back in 2016 as I had hypertension but only for a few months as I made some changes & it went back to normal. My last reading was before Christmas & it was within the normal range.

I do think I may be prone to this as it is in my family history but atm I am the lower end of my BMI range, don't smoke, get a good night's sleep, get plenty of exercise, eat a vegan mainly plant based diet & don't even drink alcohol anymore ... I should be feeling great!


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> Please don't let my experience put you off,


No - I'd already decided not to have more than the primary course. I've never had a flu jab, never had flu either!


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> No - I'd already decided not to have more than the primary course. I've never had a flu jab, never had flu either!


I've had flu before but still didn't have a flu jab. I was getting texts about that but apart form the Covid boosters I haven't been ill in a couple of years as I work from home now so don't have all the germs from being in a stuffy office! When I was working in the office I was constantly getting colds as the ventilation was dreadful & other people seemed to want the heating on full whack It was like an oven some days


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> a side effect that it not being listed


If enough people report it to the yellow card scheme, maybe they will have to acknowledge that it is, in fact, an adverse reaction. I imagine though that many people have not heard of ''yellow card''.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> If enough people report it to the yellow card scheme, maybe they will have to acknowledge that it is, in fact, an adverse reaction. I imagine though that many people have not heard of ''yellow card''.


Exactly! The BP group I joined there are lots of reminders for people to report this or any other ailments they experience after the jab


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> people seemed to want the heating on full whack


Constantly amazed how high some people have the heating! Feeding neighbour's cat (away for two weeks) and when I open the door it's like getting out of a plane in some tropical resort - an absolute wave of hot air almost knocks you to the ground. For two weeks, while they are not even there, morning, noon and night.


----------



## Siskin

Can you get antibody tests done in the UK does anyone know? Is it something you need to go to the doctors to have done?


----------



## Jobeth

You can register for one on the government website but you are not guaranteed to get one. You can also order them online for £50. I had one before the first lockdown as part of a council survey due to working with children. Only one person out of 15 in our section had any antibodies and she wasn’t aware that she’d had it.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Constantly amazed how high some people have the heating! Feeding neighbour's cat (away for two weeks) and when I open the door it's like getting out of a plane in some tropical resort - an absolute wave of hot air almost knocks you to the ground. For two weeks, while they are not even there, morning, noon and night.


I know! I have my heating on the minimum. I have oil heating so am very conservative with it as it's a big payout in one go. I fill the tank up once a year & if I run out then tough ... I do have a wood burner tho so will never freeze.

When I stayed at my sister's over Christmas I kept having to go & stand outside as I was so hot 



Siskin said:


> Can you get antibody tests done in the UK does anyone know? Is it something you need to go to the doctors to have done?


I wondered if this was an option & where it could be done


----------



## Siskin

Jobeth said:


> You can register for one on the government website but you are not guaranteed to get one. You can also order them online for £50. I had one before the first lockdown as part of a council survey due to working with children. Only one person out of 15 in our section had any antibodies and she wasn't aware that she'd had it.


Hmmm, it only seems to be to see if you have any antibodies via vaccination or natural infection. What I would like to know is what my antibody level is. I would have thought that knowing this could give people choice as to whether to have further boosters or not


----------



## Jobeth

Siskin said:


> Hmmm, it only seems to be to see if you have any antibodies via vaccination or natural infection. What I would like to know is what my antibody level is. I would have thought that knowing this could give people choice as to whether to have further boosters or not


The blood test we took just said yes or no without any additional information.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Hmmm, it only seems to be to see if you have any antibodies via vaccination or natural infection. What I would like to know is what my antibody level is. I would have thought that knowing this could give people choice as to whether to have further boosters or not


We have to pay and go to a private clinic to have any of the available tests done. Starting at around £20 it's not cheap.

These are the various tests available with an explanation about the results they give.

https://www.erzsebetfurdo.hu/szuresek/covid-szures/


----------



## Cleo38

Woke up due to my headache again today so not a good start but am feeling better now. I posted about my experience on FB & made it public so it would appear in a search. I have had 3 other women contact me with similar stories 

Had an appt with my Dr & she has increased my meds & signed me off work. Although I work from home I feel so dizzy & nauseous that I can't sit in from on my laptop doing project plans & Excel spreadsheets. She also did admit that after discussions with other Drs, looking at my life style, etc they have agreed that my symptoms are probably due to my booster which I am glad about.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> Woke up due to my headache again today so not a good start but am feeling better now. I posted about my experience on FB & made it public so it would appear in a search. I have had 3 other women contact me with similar stories
> 
> Had an appt with my Dr & she has increased my meds & signed me off work. Although I work from home I feel so dizzy & nauseous that I can't sit in from on my laptop doing project plans & Excel spreadsheets. She also did admit that after discussions with other Drs, looking at my life style, etc they have agreed that my symptoms are probably due to my booster which I am glad about.


Ugh, what an ordeal! I really hope you feel better soon. BP meds can make you feel bad too, but the main thing is to get those readings down for now. So sorry you're dealing with this.


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> Ugh, what an ordeal! I really hope you feel better soon. BP meds can make you feel bad too, but the main thing is to get those readings down for now. So sorry you're dealing with this.


Thanks, I do feel better in myself but still not right. I have so much stuff that needs doing which is frustrating Luckily the weather is nice atm (although windy today) so getting out with the dogs helps. I always think a bit of fresh air can do wonders


----------



## Jaf

Had my booster today. First 2 were Pfizer, this one was moderna. Only had a sore arm with the others so hoping for the same.


----------



## O2.0

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/europe/denmark-lifts-covid-restrictions-intl/index.html
Denmark has lifted all Covid-19 restrictions. 
"Søren Brostrøm, director-general of Denmark's Health Authority, agreed that the number of Covid-19 cases in the country was very high, but told CNN that the link between infections and severe illness had been broken."
Good news


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> after discussions with other Drs, looking at my life style, etc they have agreed that my symptoms are probably due to my booster which I am glad about


Yes, good that they (sort of) agree with you at last; but you have to wonder if that is because there were, in fact, more cases like yours - if there were, I doubt if they would tell you.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Everyone negative at long last…
I was the only one standing…
Glad it is over…
Glad I didn’t infect anyone at Uni and at work…as I had no symptoms was not tested … no lateral here to buy..
Garfield still sniffly though…


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Yes, good that they (sort of) agree with you at last; but you have to wonder if that is because there were, in fact, more cases like yours - if there were, I doubt if they would tell you.


I suppose in some way social media can be helpful for putting people in touch & able to share experiences, etc but then we also have be mindful of being accurate & not just assuming. Sort of why I was in two minds whether to post about mine on social media but am glad I have now as it meant a woman who contacted me had such bad headaches & has since found that her BP is very high.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I suppose in some way social media can be helpful for putting people in touch & able to share experiences,


Absolutely - I don't ''do '' FB to contact people at all (no idea who is or isn't on FB) - but there are some very useful pages on cat health. I joined one on feline hyperthyroidism and one of the guys there is brilliant and very helpful.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> I suppose in some way social media can be helpful for putting people in touch & able to share experiences, etc but then we also have be mindful of being accurate & not just assuming. Sort of why I was in two minds whether to post about mine on social media but am glad I have now as it meant a woman who contacted me had such bad headaches & has since found that her BP is very high.


It sounds to me as if your own doctor who originally dismissed your concerns has since spoken to other doctors (his partners) and they too have said, ''Well, actually, now you come to mention it, I've had a couple of similar cases . . . ''.


----------



## Cleo38

Calvine said:


> Absolutely - I don't ''do '' FB to contact people at all (no idea who is or isn't on FB) - but there are some very useful pages on cat health. I joined one on feline hyperthyroidism and one of the guys there is brilliant and very helpful.


Definitely. I suppose it's how people use social media. When my mum was ill there such a fantastic support group that gave me so much advice regarding her condition, what benefits she was entitled to, etc. & they put me in touch with someone from a charity who came round & basically did it all for us

It was amazing to get such help as it was such a traumatic time that I couldn't have done it as the whole process was so complicated.


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Definitely. I suppose it's how people use social media. When my mum was ill there such a fantastic support group that gave me so much advice regarding her condition, what benefits she was entitled to, etc. & they put me in touch with someone from a charity who came round & basically did it all for us
> 
> It was amazing to get such help as it was such a traumatic time that I couldn't have done it as the whole process was so complicated.


It's this part of social media that is a shining light, pity there is so much that isn't.
In 2020 I joined a FB group on the type of rare cancer I had, but I found after a while that it was dragging me down as there were people who had a reoccurrence of the same cancer or the original had spread. I know it can happen, but seeing it happening to others began to affect me so I left the group.
Having said the cancer was rare there was a man with the same type almost where I had mine, on TV last night, program called Geordie Hospital, don't know if anyone else watched the program, it was on channel 4. His op was almost a carbon copy of mine


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> It's this part of social media that is a shining light, pity there is so much that isn't.
> In 2020 I joined a FB group on the type of rare cancer I had, but I found after a while that it was dragging me down as there were people who had a reoccurrence of the same cancer or the original had spread. I know it can happen, but seeing it happening to others began to affect me so I left the group.
> Having said the cancer was rare there was a man with the same type almost where I had mine, on TV last night, program called Geordie Hospital, don't know if anyone else watched the program, it was on channel 4. His op was almost a carbon copy of mine


Yes, there are some amazing groups with such kind people. I think some think social media is all full of bitching & arguing but simply not the case. That's why I choose the groups I am a member of very carefully now.

I saw that programme listed so will give it a watch later.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Flipping heck. I got an email about my 4th jab today...I've not really seen anything about healthcare workers needing a second booster already.

I'm pretty sure I won't be having it.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Mrs Funkin said:


> Flipping heck. I got an email about my 4th jab today...I've not really seen anything about healthcare workers needing a second booster already.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I won't be having it.


Are you in any vulnerable groups? I got told about mine at my 3rd jab (which was a shock because I didn't even know I was getting the third jab- I was there for a flu jab!).


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> Flipping heck. I got an email about my 4th jab today...I've not really seen anything about healthcare workers needing a second booster already.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I won't be having it.


I do think a 2nd booster is overkill and the science doesn't really support it does it? 
It really does feel like they're trying to vaccinate as much as possible, I hate to sound conspiracy theorist but... follow the money....


----------



## Cleo38

O2.0 said:


> I do think a 2nd booster is overkill and the science doesn't really support it does it?
> It really does feel like they're trying to vaccinate as much as possible, I hate to sound conspiracy theorist but... follow the money....


Is there really any need for a 2nd booster in such a short space of time? Is there any other vaccines that are recommended so frequently?

I definitely won't be having another (obviously!) but a friend has also been advised for a 2nd booster & although she didn't have any side effects afterwards she is questioning the reasoning behind it


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Is there really any need for a 2nd booster in such a short space of time? Is there any other vaccines that are recommended so frequently?
> 
> I definitely won't be having another (obviously!) but a friend has also been advised for a 2nd booster & although she didn't have any side effects afterwards she is questioning the reasoning behind it


Even I feel a second booster isn't a necessity for me especially as the science doesn't appear to support it. The best way of getting lots of extra antibodies, plus a different type of antibody is to have omicron so long as it really is a mild illness.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

@bmr10 I think it's just because I'm patient facing NHS. My only "life-long" conditions aren't on the Covid list, so it must be that.

If they can show me strong research about another jab, I'll consider it.


----------



## Calvine

Cleo38 said:


> Is there really any need for a 2nd booster in such a short space of time?


And this is in addition to the flu jab which a a lot of people have! No more for me, I had the first two and that's it - I'd far sooner they sent some to countries which don't have enough for the primary vaccinations, and I've said from the off that I suspect the reason for all this is financial gain, and I still think so.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Mrs Funkin said:


> @bmr10 I think it's just because I'm patient facing NHS. My only "life-long" conditions aren't on the Covid list, so it must be that.
> 
> If they can show me strong research about another jab, I'll consider it.


Oh yes, I think you may be right. https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o30 This article states that Israel have already been vaccinating healthcare workers with a fourth dose and Germany are to follow suit. Britain following allowing would make sense. I only wondered since I hadn't seen it mentioned in the news at all. Perhaps it's only being publicised internally within the NHS.


----------



## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> Even I feel a second booster isn't a necessity for me especially as the science doesn't appear to support it. The best way of getting lots of extra antibodies, plus a different type of antibody is to have omicron so long as it really is a mild illness.


Problem is it isn't always mild. Hubby of a friend has been in intensive care for a month...


----------



## Mrs Funkin

That's the thing @bmr10 we have not heard a thing via work, this is to my personal email. Nobody has mentioned another jab via work channels.

It all appears genuine but it's so odd.

Surely the world that have had no vaccines should be given them before we have number four…


----------



## £54etgfb6

Mrs Funkin said:


> That's the thing @bmr10 we have not heard a thing via work, this is to my personal email. Nobody has mentioned another jab via work channels.
> 
> It all appears genuine but it's so odd.
> 
> Surely the world that have had no vaccines should be given them before we have number four…


To you personal email? Sounds dodgy unless the NHS regularly do that- I wouldn't know.


----------



## Siskin

Jesthar said:


> Problem is it isn't always mild. Hubby of a friend has been in intensive care for a month...


I know, that's the only thing that's worrying me. I don't know many of my age group that have had it. Some friends who are perhaps in their late 50's have had it and had no issues, but they are healthy people


----------



## Blackadder

Jesthar said:


> Problem is it isn't always mild. Hubby of a friend has been in intensive care for a month...


Isn't that what viruses do? Some are more vulnerable than others, Flu is a killer for some!


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Oh yes, I think you may be right. https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o30 This article states that Israel have already been vaccinating healthcare workers with a fourth dose and Germany are to follow suit. Britain following allowing would make sense. I only wondered since I hadn't seen it mentioned in the news at all. Perhaps it's only being publicised internally within the NHS.


Israel has been giving the 4th dose for quite some time, Germany has just been given approval to do the same. Here in Hungary we have been able to have the 4th jab since the end of last month.

As I'm in two minds whether to have the 4th shot or not, I've decided to have an antibody test to know how well protected I am and my decision will be depend on the result

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...ine-shot-less-effective-omicron-israeli-study

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-recommends-fourth-vaccine-vulnerable-exposed-groups/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00200-9


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I've decided to have an antibody test


Do you have to pay for that - I imagine so?


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Do you have to pay for that - I imagine so?


You can go to one of the many testing centres who do a variety of Covid tests. The cost for the antibody test is around £40 and requires a blood sample being taken from your arm. and then a wait of 4 or 5 days for the result. Instead after spending a couple of hours doing some research, I decided to buy a test kit online, which costs about £5 and do the test at home. It just requires a few drop of blood from a finger stick and you get the results in about 10 minutes.

https://www.netvital.net/well-biotech-orawell-covid-19-antitest-1-db-tesztk


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> Israel has been giving the 4th dose for quite some time, Germany has just been given approval to do the same. Here in Hungary we have been able to have the 4th jab since the end of last month.
> 
> As I'm in two minds whether to have the 4th shot or not, I've decided to have an antibody test to know how well protected I am and my decision will be depend on the result
> 
> https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...ine-shot-less-effective-omicron-israeli-study
> 
> https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-recommends-fourth-vaccine-vulnerable-exposed-groups/
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00200-9


That makes sense if that works for you. Hopefully it is not too expensive!! Some of the prices for covid tests are insane so I've got no idea what ballpark an antibody test would be in. I'm going to have my fourth dose regardless personally as antibody testing is not available through the NHS and a current antibody titre is not known so, in my opinion, it is just a number with no meaning behind it. I am happy to have them as the risk of a complication is worth it to me, personally. I am shocked though that people in the NHS are being offered a fourth dose when there have been no news articles saying so (at least, none that I've seen).


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> I'm going to have my fourth dose regardless


 Have you already been contacted about a fourth one?


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> Have you already been contacted about a fourth one?


No not yet as I only had my third just over 2 months ago. At the time I was told I'd be contacted for a fourth dose in around 12 weeks time. I expect to get a letter at some point within the next 2 weeks.


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> That makes sense if that works for you. Hopefully it is not too expensive!! Some of the prices for covid tests are insane so I've got no idea what ballpark an antibody test would be in. I'm going to have my fourth dose regardless personally as antibody testing is not available through the NHS and a current antibody titre is not known so, in my opinion, it is just a number with no meaning behind it. I am happy to have them as the risk of a complication is worth it to me, personally. I am shocked though that people in the NHS are being offered a fourth dose when there have been no news articles saying so (at least, none that I've seen).


My reasoning is as follows.... Like many people in Hungary my first two vaccinations in February and March 2021 were the Chinese Sinopharm vaccine which has had conflicting reports as to its efficacy particularly in the over 70 age group which is the one I fall into. A large percentage of my age group when tested had no antibodies whatsoever. My 3rd booster shot was Pfizer which I had last August..

Now it could be that the only antibodies I have are from the 3rd Pfizer jab or if I'm an exception to the rule hopefully I'll have antibodies from all 3 jabs. I'm not interested in knowing the exact percentage but rather knowing that I do have some antibodies circulating in my body, if that makes sense.

As a control of sorts, Gabor my dogs trainer is also doing the same test so we can compare the results. He's in his late 30's and has only had the two Sinopharm vaccinations. Rather unscientific but should be interesting to compare results.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> My reasoning is as follows.... Like many people in Hungary my first two vaccinations in February and March 2021 were the Chinese Sinopharm vaccine which has had conflicting reports as to its efficacy particularly in the over 70 age group which is the one I fall into. A large percentage of my age group when tested had no antibodies whatsoever. My 3rd booster shot was Pfizer which I had last August..
> 
> Now it could be that the only antibodies I have are from the 3rd Pfizer jab or if I'm an exception to the rule hopefully I'll have antibodies from all 3 jabs. I'm not interested in knowing the exact percentage but rather knowing that I do have some antibodies circulating in my body, if that makes sense.
> 
> As a control of sorts, Gabor my dogs trainer is also doing the same test so we can compare the results. He's in his late 30's and has only had the two Sinopharm vaccinations. Rather unscientific but should be interesting to compare results.


Understandable however do be aware that regardless of your antibody level, chances are they were much higher post-vaccination. Antibody levels naturally wane and these people with zero antibodies after receiving Sinopharm vaccines may have had a decent amount for a while after they received their vaccinations- it would really depend upon the timing of the test.


----------



## Magyarmum

bmr10 said:


> Understandable however do be aware that regardless of your antibody level, chances are they were much higher post-vaccination. Antibody levels naturally wane and these people with zero antibodies after receiving Sinopharm vaccines may have had a decent amount for a while after they received their vaccinations- it would really depend upon the timing of the test.


I'm aware of that thank you which is one of the reasons I'm doing the test.


----------



## MollySmith

I am in the highest Covid area in England according to local data. Times when being a 'seat of learning' isn't so good. 
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co...hk5aYvJGAqOhw0xZ-dISFyoGW-XTs6OPgJxoIpO8bEin4


----------



## Jobeth

MollySmith said:


> I am in the highest Covid area in England according to local data. Times when being a 'seat of learning' isn't so good.
> https://www.cambridgeindependent.co...hk5aYvJGAqOhw0xZ-dISFyoGW-XTs6OPgJxoIpO8bEin4


I live somewhere that's often in the top 20. At the moment it's below the national average but probably because most people have had it anyway.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> That's the thing @bmr10 we have not heard a thing via work, this is to my personal email. Nobody has mentioned another jab via work channels.
> 
> It all appears genuine but it's so odd.
> 
> Surely the world that have had no vaccines should be given them before we have number four…


I do agree with the rest of the World needing to be vaccinated before we get more boosters but, in reality, how likely is that going to happen even with adequate supplies given the lack of infrastructure in those needy countries?

In an ideal World, those populations would be vaccinated.

Would they just end up going to waste though?

It's a tricky one.


----------



## O2.0

I have no idea what the covid rates in my area are other than anecdotal from talking to people I interact with. 
I think this is one of the problems. Medical professionals and researchers track other diseases like flu but the media doesn't obsess about reporting the rates of infection. 
And notice it's always rates of infection that make headlines. Not the fact that hospitalizations are down and deaths are way down.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> I do agree with the rest of the World needing to be vaccinated before we get more boosters but, in reality, how likely is that going to happen even with adequate supplies given the lack of infrastructure in those needy countries?
> 
> In an ideal World, those populations would be vaccinated.
> 
> Would they just end up going to waste though?
> 
> It's a tricky one.


Nigeria is said to have thrown away nearly 1 million doses of vaccine in November due to lack of people to administer the shots.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...accines-wasted-nigeria-last-month-2021-12-08/

* Up to 1 million COVID vaccines expired in Nigeria last month*


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH had to have a PCR test this morning, then isolate until Tuesday, when he has a minor (but invasive) procedure at the hospital.

Previously, we’ve isolated together as we were both locked down … now though, I’m more out and about.

So he’s chilling in our bedroom and enjoying a bit of room service, while I’ve dragged my mattress downstairs and am camping in the lounge 

Bit surprised though that he was told “don’t worry if your result isn’t back in time … still attend the appointment anyway” …. not sure that makes total sense tbh.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I wouldn't worry, @Lurcherlad  I was in our local town on Wednesday on the hunt for something for the boy, when a woman was in the middle of town talking to her friend, "Oh I had my pre-op yesterday, surgery is on Friday". It was all I could do to not say something. Errrm, Covid swab at the pre-op, then isolation until surgery anyone?

URGH!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> Surely the world that have had no vaccines should be given them before we have number four


Exactly what I've said: they can have all mine - they can help themselves to my flu vaccinations too!


----------



## Siskin

When I was waiting to have my latest op I was going into the hospital for a PCR test on the Monday and waiting to see if I could go in for the op on Tuesday, presumably the result wouldn’t have been back by then. 
Whilst I was in hospital I had two more tests.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

They are usually back @Siskin - we do our pre-op appts for ladies having Caesarean sections the evening before and the results are back in the morning.


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> I have no idea what the covid rates in my area are other than anecdotal from talking to people I interact with.
> I think this is one of the problems. Medical professionals and researchers track other diseases like flu but the media doesn't obsess about reporting the rates of infection.
> And notice it's always rates of infection that make headlines. Not the fact that hospitalizations are down and deaths are way down.


I agree that they should stop reporting the daily figures, they have done in other countries a long time ago, but to be fair to our media they do daily cases and hospitalisations.
The graph is a 7 day average so you can clearly see the cases haven't materialised into the hospitalisations we've had previously even when the case rate was lower.
The other day they said how many were on a ventilator too and that number was very low.


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> I have no idea what the covid rates in my area are other than anecdotal from talking to people I interact with.
> I think this is one of the problems. Medical professionals and researchers track other diseases like flu but the media doesn't obsess about reporting the rates of infection.
> And notice it's always rates of infection that make headlines. Not the fact that hospitalizations are down and deaths are way down.


They include that information as well. I look because I find the data interesting and compared Cambridge to where I live. I was surprised that that have a really low vaccination rate (68%) compared to a mainly working class/ex-mining community (85%). This is a snapshot of some of what they show:


----------



## Magyarmum

Arny said:


> I agree that they should stop reporting the daily figures, they have done in other countries a long time ago, but to be fair to our media they do daily cases and hospitalisations.
> The graph is a 7 day average so you can clearly see the cases haven't materialised into the hospitalisations we've had previously even when the case rate was lower.
> The other day they said how many were on a ventilator too and that number was very low.


We still get daily figures for new infections, hospitalisations, number of people on ventilators and deaths, country wide. We also get the number of new infections county by county, but no information about the number of people in hospital etc.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Crikey! Now I've had a real physical letter through the post about my fourth jab! They're really pushing it. 

Husband reckons I've obviously got something seriously wrong with me  As far as I knew, any of the things I do have (mostly blood related issues) don't increase my Covid risk.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> Nigeria is said to have thrown away nearly 1 million doses of vaccine in November due to lack of people to administer the shots.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/he...accines-wasted-nigeria-last-month-2021-12-08/
> 
> * Up to 1 million COVID vaccines expired in Nigeria last month*


Yes, I read back then that they were considered too near their ''use-by'' date and were destroyed. It does seem immoral, doesn't it.


----------



## rona

I'm not going many places still because of my vulnerable status, but I am going swimming. It's and enormous pool with huge changing rooms and very large shower and toilet area.
No need for anyone to get close. Why then did someone stand right next to me, facing me, and shout across me to her friend?  There was only the two of us there


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I'm not going many places still because of my vulnerable status, but I am going swimming. It's and enormous pool with huge changing rooms and very large shower and toilet area.
> No need for anyone to get close. Why then did someone stand right next to me, facing me, and shout across me to her friend?  There was only the two of us there


 So annoying - happened to me on the bus last week. Mother and daughter (I assumed) - even at the best of times it's unacceptable to have people shouting across you. You wonder how these people are brought up.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Still using my trolley as a social distancing tool in the supermarket…. Back off Bozo!!


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Still using my trolley as a social distancing tool in the supermarket…. Back off Bozo!!


Same here! I've got it down to a fine art!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I especially enjoy asking people choosing not to wear a mask to step back from me and give me my space. I like the trolley idea


----------



## Siskin

Went to the hairdressers this morning to finally get a haircut, first time since mid September. Still notice on door asking people to wear masks and the staff were also wearing masks, more then happy about that. Today’s entertainment was provided by an elderly man who drove his car into a shop wall, then on reversing out he drove into a car with quite a bang, so both ends of the car badly damaged. Sadly there was a dog in the back of his car who I hope was ok although may well have been badly frightened. Elderly man was ok we think, he was very doddery on his feet when he got out whether through shock, old age or anything else is unknown. After exchanging insurance details he drove away presumably home, I really don’t think he should be driving


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Still using my trolley as a social distancing tool in the supermarket…. Back off Bozo!!


 Ha, yes; but actually I do recall going to Sainsbury's early in the first lockdown 2020 and Sainsbury's had up a notice telling everyone to remain socially distant and in case we didn't know how distant socially distant was, they provided a picture of two trolleys being pushed by a matchstick man (a bit like a Lowry painting).


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> Same here! I've got it down to a fine art!


Like the ''stubborn old git'' you are!:Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Like the ''stubborn old git'' you are!:Hilarious


Ah come off it! You know I'm a really sweet old lady!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Mrs Funkin said:


> I especially enjoy asking people choosing not to wear a mask to step back from me and give me my space. I like the trolley idea


In the queue, I make space in front of me and leave the trolley behind me, otherwise people get up my jacksy in a rush to start unloading onto the belt.

Which I've never understood … what's the panic. They can't get served until I've finished paying and walked away


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Good tactic! I am having to go more to the supermarket now, so all these trolley tactics are good to file away  Our online deliveries are becoming rapidly more expensive. It's bonkers, the price increases will soon make it unfeasible to use.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> otherwise people get up my jacksy in a rush to start unloading onto the belt


Even at the self-service ones, they leave the queue and are hovering like bloody vultures and edging closer when their beady hawk-eyes spot you have almost completed the transaction. I have told a couple to back off; there's no need for it.


----------



## O2.0

Online grocery deliveries have never been an option for us even if we could afford it, which we can't. Just don't have that service. 
I forget about all the conveniences of urban living, we can't even get take-out where we are! 

In March of 2020 we did start doing curbside delivery for groceries but quickly realized it wasn't worth it. The nearest store that did/does curbside delivery is 30 miles up the road, vs. 7 miles to the more local store that doesn't do curbside. 
I can do my local shop once a week and then about once a month I go to the one 30 miles away and get stuff I can't get locally. 

We're not masking much around here anymore. I do carry a mask with me in case I need it, but I don't put it on automatically anymore. 
Anecdotally, just talking to people I know, flu seems to be more of an issue now than 'rona.


----------



## Siskin

Just heard that my daughters fiancé has tested positive for Covid, daughter is expecting to get it sooner rather then later. They were planning to come and see us the end of February, hopefully they will be fit and well and full of antibodies by then.


----------



## Arny

I've managed to avoid omicron. My dad lateral flow tested positive so he isolated away from my mum and I and neither of us caught it.
I wouldn't have been bothered only if I'd caught it after a few days I would have missed something I really wanted to go to due to isolating.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> Ah come off it! You know I'm a really sweet old lady!


:Hilarious

@Siskin mentioned haircuts. OH cuts mine . he does a very god job though this time he cut it rather short to just below my ears . Im sure its nothing to do with the fact that i called him by an old boyfriends name a few days before ,  :Hilarious


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> @Siskin mentioned haircuts. OH cuts mine . he does a very god job though this time he cut it rather short to just below my ears . Im sure its nothing to do with the fact that i called him by an old boyfriends name a dew days before ,  :Hilarious


OMG........poor love.

Someone phoned here the other day a asked for Mrs B*****, I was so used to just answering yes so that people would talk to me about my dying friend, that I automatically said yes  Luckily OH wasn't here


----------



## Charity

So, all restrictions are being removed in the next few weeks, I'm sure so Boris can get back in people's good books as he isn't exactly flavour of the month. He has now totally abandoned the people who are vulnerable to look after themselves which basically means not getting back to any type of normal life if you don't want to put yourself at risk still. 

They say numbers are going down which is untrue and, certainly, not where I live. Every week numbers are going up. 

I know my views are going to be in the minority probably but I'm sticking to my guns and I won't be throwing caution to the wind.


----------



## ForestWomble

Charity said:


> So, all restrictions are being removed in the next few weeks, I'm sure so Boris can get back in people's good books as he isn't exactly flavour of the month. He has now totally abandoned the people who are vulnerable to look after themselves which basically means not getting back to any type of normal life if you don't want to put yourself at risk still.
> 
> They say numbers are going down which is untrue and, certainly, not where I live. Every week numbers are going up.
> 
> I know my views are going to be in the minority probably but I'm sticking to my guns and I won't be throwing caution to the wind.


Sadly I fully agree with you


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I am also in the "not throwing caution to the wind" camp.

It's husband's birthday this weekend, we are actually going to go out with another couple for dinner (assuming the weather is kind enough to allow us to walk into "town"). We were going to have a takeaway with them here but we've all decided we want to try to go out. I've got to start trying to do some things that we would usually do. The place we are going has spaced out tables, so I don't feel too frightened of going there, we've been there twice since March 2020 (once in Oct 20 and once in May 21) and I felt safe enough. 

Obviously we will (I presume/assume) still be fully masked up at work, I'll still wear one in busy places like the shops, I'd wear one if I was on public transport too.


----------



## rona

Charity said:


> I know my views are going to be in the minority probably but I'm sticking to my guns and I won't be throwing caution to the wind.


I won't either



Mrs Funkin said:


> I've got to start trying to do some things that we would usually do. The place we are going has spaced out tables, so I don't feel too frightened of going there


I went to a place yesterday, that I'd been to few times before because it was spaced out and not too many people. Yesterday it was heaving and I felt very vulnerable


----------



## Mrs Funkin




----------



## Magyarmum

Mask wearing is still mandatory here in Hungary with no sign of when the rules will be lifted. We've been told that we shouldn't expect the infection numbers to drop for another couple of weeks.

Apart from that life goes on as normal. Yesterday I was in the city and noticed although some people weren't wearing masks outside in the street, they were putting them on before they went into a shop or cafe.where like me they only took them off to drink or eat.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> Mask wearing is still mandatory here in Hungary with no sign of when the rules will be lifted. We've been told that we shouldn't expect the infection numbers to drop for another couple of weeks.
> 
> Apart from that life goes on as normal. Yesterday I was in the city and noticed although some people weren't wearing masks outside in the street, they were putting them on before they went into a shop or cafe.where like me they only took them off to drink or eat.


It is the law here (Scotland not England) too but I will say a lot of people seem to think that just because England has dropped restrictions so have Scotland! Lots more people not wearing masks (with no lanyard either) in supermarkets even though it is a legal requirement. You do see a few people in town wearing masks when outdoors but a lot of people (particularly people in large groups for some reason) don't. I saw that the Sun has referred to Scotland's restrictions as *DRACONIAN. *I am quite glad to be living under draconian rule then.


----------



## willa

I’m nervous about all restrictions being eased in England. 
People not having to Isolate if they test Positive worries me


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> People not having to Isolate if they test Positive worries me


Prince Charles has tested positive for the second time and he's isolating; he is triple jabbed.


----------



## willa

Calvine said:


> Prince Charles has tested positive for the second time and he's isolating; he is triple jabbed.


I mean when Boris stops the isolating rules at the end of this month


----------



## O2.0

willa said:


> People not having to Isolate if they test Positive worries me


I don't know about the UK, but in the US, I think there are a lot more positive people going about their lives than people would like to think about.

It's really a privilege to be able to stay home if you're sick. I think we forget that. 
Most people don't have that privilege. They don't have someone to do chores and shopping for them, they don't have the luxury of sick days at work, they can't afford not to go to work.

And then there's also the people who have covid without symptoms. 
A lot of college campuses have weekly testing and are figuring out that most young people who are testing positive are completely asymptomatic. 
I don't know how that affects transmission, if you're less contagious if you have fewer symptoms, but other than another lockdown, I don't know how you would prevent transmission from asymptomatic people.


----------



## Arny

O2.0 said:


> I don't know about the UK, but in the US, I think there are a lot more positive people going about their lives than people would like to think about.


I only caught the end of it on the news so I may have misunderstood but they seemed to be saying the positive case numbers are thought to be about half the reality so they don't think scrapping isolation is going to make too much difference.


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Prince Charles has tested positive for the second time and he's isolating; he is triple jabbed.


Has he or Camilla been near the Queen?


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> @Siskin mentioned haircuts. OH cuts mine . he does a very god job though this time he cut it rather short to just below my ears . Im sure its nothing to do with the fact that i called him by an old boyfriends name a few days before ,  :Hilarious


You really should be more discreet about all your boyfriends. Next time it might be more than your hair he cuts short

If I was you I'd be afraid ,,,, very ,,,, very afraid!


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Has he or Camilla been near the Queen?


Apparently not, and Camilla tested negative.


----------



## Calvine

willa said:


> I mean when Boris stops the isolating rules at the end of this month


I understood that, but just saw a few hours back that he's had to cancel engagements.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> You really should be more discreet about all your boyfriends. Next time it might be more than your hair he cuts short
> 
> If I was you I'd be afraid ,,,, very ,,,, very afraid!


 :Hilarious. We had a good laugh about it. I blame @rona for starting a thread about the 70s. it was that long ago! Got me thinking back , I can hardly remember what he looks like.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious. We had a good laugh about it. I blame @rona for starting a thread about the 70s. it was that long ago! Got me thinking back , I can hardly remember what he looks like.


Don't bring me into your sordid past 

Well, 14 days before all restriction are going to be lifted and my area has the highest covid cases and deaths of the whole pandemic


----------



## willa

Prince Charles was with the Queen on Tuesday !


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Don't bring me into your sordid past


:Hilarious



> Well, 14 days before all restriction are going to be lifted and my area has the highest covid cases and deaths of the whole pandemic


That's rather worrying . I don't know the figures for our area. I stopped looking. I expect its high.


----------



## MollySmith

I’ve been to a coffee shop last week - I felt a bit jumpy. They did have Covid rules still in place but optional. Most wore masks, waited at the door to be seated, staff all wore masks. I LFT’d negative. 

Yesterday a garden centre and first time with friend who didn’t mask. Bit awkward. I tested negative again but still feeling skitty.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> I've been to a coffee shop last week - I felt a bit jumpy. They did have Covid rules still in place but optional. Most wore masks, waited at the door to be seated, staff all wore masks. I LFT'd negative.
> 
> Yesterday a garden centre and first time with friend who didn't mask. Bit awkward. I tested negative again but still feeling skitty.


We went to Ruislip lido today and the cafe was open but we ate outside. Ian wore a mask inside to order but no one else was. I just feel sick of the whole thing and almost like I dont care anymore 
Ive had a letter from my RA consultant explaining about a third jab ( not the same as the booster ) and my GP will contact me. I feel like the woman who said , You're joking , not another election :Hilarious I feel I cant be arsed though when the time comes I probably will get it done.


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> a third jab ( not the same as the booster )


If not the same as a booster, what is it? Did they explain? Don't get me wrong, whatever it is they can keep it!


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> If not the same as a booster, what is it? Did they explain? Don't get me wrong, whatever it is they can keep it!


They sent a letter . The 3rd vaccination is for immunosuppressed people. It's extra protection. Its counted as a primary dose . I dont really understand the letter. having reread it , it might not be different . Its confusing. It says the booster dose is not the same as the third primary dose , but I think they worded it to avoid confusion and that you need both the 3 rd primary jab and the booster as well. I had the booster months ago. They should have pit the 3rd vac is in addition to the booster.


----------



## Magyarmum

I did the Biotech Orawell Covid-19 Antibody Rapid Test this morning. According to the results I have zilch, nada, and most definitely NO antibodies circulating around my person which is rather worrying! It could be though that I did something wrong.  

As I don't have another test kit to double check, I think I'll go to the test centre in the city and get one done professionally.. 

Ah well such is life


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> I did the Biotech Orawell Covid-19 Antibody Rapid Test this morning. According to the results I have zilch, nada, and most definitely NO antibodies circulating around my person which is rather worrying! It could be though that I did something wrong.
> 
> As I don't have another test kit to double check, I think I'll go to the test centre in the city and get one done professionally..
> 
> Ah well such is life


What about your boys' trainer? Didn't he do one as well?


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I did the Biotech Orawell Covid-19 Antibody Rapid Test this morning. According to the results I have zilch, nada, and most definitely NO antibodies circulating around my person which is rather worrying! It could be though that I did something wrong.
> 
> As I don't have another test kit to double check, I think I'll go to the test centre in the city and get one done professionally..
> 
> Ah well such is life


I'd have thought that if you are fully vaccinated there would be something left in your system, if only a small amount. Not surprised you're worried.


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> What about your boys' trainer? Didn't he do one as well?


I messaged him last night. He hasn't done his yet.

Actually having done more reading, it could well be that the result was a false negative. The antibody tests are designed more for people who have contracted the virus, rather than people like me who have been vaccinated. As I had my first two Sinopharm jabs in February and March last year and my booster last August, I think it might be worth having the 4th vaccination, which I can get by going to the hospital in the city.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...not-be-your-go-to-for-checking-covid-immunity

*Antibody Tests Should Not Be Your Go-To For Checking COVID Immunity*


----------



## £54etgfb6

Magyarmum said:


> I messaged him last night. He hasn't done his yet.
> 
> Actually having done more reading, it could well be that the result was a false negative. The antibody tests are designed more for people who have contracted the virus, rather than people like me who have been vaccinated. As I had my first two Sinopharm jabs in February and March last year and my booster last August, I think it might be worth having the 4th vaccination, which I can get by going to the hospital in the city.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/health...not-be-your-go-to-for-checking-covid-immunity
> 
> *Antibody Tests Should Not Be Your Go-To For Checking COVID Immunity*


I made a few posts on this thread (or the covid political one maybe) regarding antibody tests. Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with them. There is no known antibody titre for them (in comparison to tests for tetanus for example) so a number of 100 and a number of 500 bear no relevance. More may seem better but what level is "enough"? Additionally, as the article points out, regardless of your number of recorded antibodies not all will be capable of neutralising a virus and will be ineffective at protecting you. Additionally, each test will vary in the specificity and sensitivity it is capable of. Your antibody levels may be below this tests threshold for detectability. That doesn't mean you necessarily have no antibodies. Overall, they're a huge waste of money imo. You'd be relying on guesswork to interpret the results.


----------



## O2.0

This article is hopeful 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...king-clearer-as-we-learn-more-about-infection


----------



## Calvine

Camilla ( I assume triple vaccinated) just tested positive.


----------



## willa

Have to wonder if the Queen has Covid


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Have to wonder if the Queen has Covid


Apparently not..........she was working today


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So after the text message telling me about having a fourth jab, I then got a letter...so I asked at work and nobody else has had one. I was at the GP surgery this morning for bloods, so I took the letter with me and asked if they knew why. They were as much use as a chocolate teapot, I did eventually manage to get the receptionist to email the person at the surgery who deals with Covid letters, so you never know, I might eventually find out. 

I'm not entertaining the idea of having another jab until I have a proper reason why.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> So after the text message telling me about having a fourth jab, I then got a letter...so I asked at work and nobody else has had one. I was at the GP surgery this morning for bloods, so I took the letter with me and asked if they knew why. They were as much use as a chocolate teapot, I did eventually manage to get the receptionist to email the person at the surgery who deals with Covid letters, so you never know, I might eventually find out.
> 
> I'm not entertaining the idea of having another jab until I have a proper reason why.


I agree with you. I can't remember if I linked on here or not, but there was a good article in NPR about the future of the pandemic and how if you've been exposed (which of course you have) and vaccinated, and you're a healthy person under 50, you're most likely perfectly fine. 
4th booster seems like more than overkill.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Heh, sadly much too close to 50


----------



## Happy Paws2

O2.0 said:


> 4th booster seems like more than overkill.


OH has had 4th jab, maybe because he has a very low immune system.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> Heh, sadly much too close to 50


If you're not there yet, it doesn't count  
It counts for me as of last month  It's not so bad though, I can still trek up mountains and keep up with Penny, so it's all good! 
I did get a booster because though work doesn't require it, their quarantine rules make it so you have to use sick days and be out, and I don't want to do that to my kids or my colleagues. So I guess you can say it was "pressure" to be boostered. It all feels off somehow. 
A few years ago we had an outbreak of whooping cough and we all had to be either antibody tested or boostered. I had zero issue with that, it didn't bother me in the least. And I was excited to get the original covid vaccine. But these boosters just don't feel right to me.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Absolutely @Happy Paws2 - important if you are immune-compromised. I would definitely do it then!

I had a call from the Covid people after the GP emailed them. He said he had no access to my medical records and didn't know why they'd sent the query to him, so he's batted it back to the GP via the Practice Manager. I have reiterated that unless they tell me exactly why they want me to have a fourth jab, I'm not.

As a side issue, we had an email at work inviting us to participate in a fourth jab study, so I know from that that HCPs are not having a second booster as standard (yet).

I've been trying to figure out if my blood conditions have suddenly appeared on the list to flag as higher risk but they haven't. There is a slight increased risk from Covid for one of them - but nothing major - certainly not enough to make me need to shield or be on the high risk list.

Honestly, I always wonder, "Why would you do if you weren't well educated and reasonably with it and not an HCP"? The standard line in our house is, "What would you do if you haven't got a Sharon in your life?" (yes, I have a real name! Not just Mrs F!) I can't get to the bottom of this, what hope would you have as a vulnerable person? Pppffft.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH has had 4th jab, maybe because he has a very low immune system.


I'm planning on having my 4th jab one day next week In Hungary it's recommended for anyone over the age of 70. 
and it's just been recommended for the elderly in Sweden as well.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-recommends-fourth-covid-19-jab-elderly-2022-02-14/

*Sweden recommends fourth COVID-19 jab for the elderly*


----------



## Nonnie

My mother has it and its surprising how quickly she become ill.

I saw her Tuesday as i have to take in and put away her Sainsburys delivery and she was absolutely fine - she emailed 4am on Weds morning and was really ill by then.

Popped in on her quickly today to batten down her garden ready for tomorrows gales and she looks and sounds horrendous.

Shes had 4 jabs too.


----------



## mrs phas

Mrs Funkin said:


> "What would you do if you haven't got a Sharon in your life"


Ooh snap!

Not many of us around these days


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Nonnie said:


> My mother has it and its surprising how quickly she become ill.
> 
> I saw her Tuesday as i have to take in and put away her Sainsburys delivery and she was absolutely fine - she emailed 4am on Weds morning and was really ill by then.
> 
> Popped in on her quickly today to batten down her garden ready for tomorrows gales and she looks and sounds horrendous.
> 
> Shes had 4 jabs too.


Oh dear your poor mum, I hope she feels better very soon


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh dear @Nonnie - sorry to read your mum is poorly. Hope she recovers well and rapidly.


----------



## rona

Nonnie said:


> My mother has it and its surprising how quickly she become ill.
> 
> I saw her Tuesday as i have to take in and put away her Sainsburys delivery and she was absolutely fine - she emailed 4am on Weds morning and was really ill by then.
> 
> Popped in on her quickly today to batten down her garden ready for tomorrows gales and she looks and sounds horrendous.
> 
> Shes had 4 jabs too.


Whereon earth did she pick that up?

Is she still managing to get out and about, or does she have people going in?

Hope she's ok and you haven't got it


----------



## Nonnie

rona said:


> Whereon earth did she pick that up?
> 
> Is she still managing to get out and about, or does she have people going in?
> 
> Hope she's ok and you haven't got it


She attends at least one medical appointment a week, and then usually goes out for a coffee with her sister afterwards.

I had warned her about socialising, considering she is firmly in the vulnerable category, but there you go. Her sister is one of those constantly busy people so is probably who she got it from.


----------



## rona

Nonnie said:


> She attends at least one medical appointment a week, and then usually goes out for a coffee with her sister afterwards.
> 
> I had warned her about socialising, considering she is firmly in the vulnerable category, but there you go. Her sister is one of those constantly busy people so is probably who she got it from.


How is she today?


----------



## Nonnie

rona said:


> How is she today?


No idea. She doesnt get out of bed until gone midday.

It seems to be the cough thats the worst. Sounds like she has a really bad chest infection.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh no, my poor Auntie had shingles last week and now has Covid  What a pickle, she says she feels really poorly. It worries me as she lives on her own - she's only just 70 but still, it's concerning


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh no, my poor Auntie had shingles last week and now has Covid  What a pickle, she says she feels really poorly. It worries me as she lives on her own - she's only just 70 but still, it's concerning


Oh dear let's hope she feels better soon.


----------



## SusieRainbow

My husband is still testing positive over 10 days after his first positve test. Apart from tiring easily he's asymptomatic but doesn't feel comfortable going in to the office or doing site visits- they don't want him to either. But according to the guidlines he no longer needs to self isolate.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

How are you feeling now @SusieRainbow ?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Mrs Funkin said:


> How are you feeling now @SusieRainbow ?


I'm slowly improving thanks, still tire easily but well on the way to recovery. I've had worse colds but it's only now I'm better I realise how rough I felt.
I'm so grateful for the vaccine, considering I'm in my 70s and diabetic it could have been so much worse.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh heck! The Queen has tested positive for the Dreaded Lurgy


----------



## Siskin

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh heck! The Queen has tested positive for the Dreaded Lurgy


I've just heard it on the radio. Hope she will be ok


----------



## willa

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh heck! The Queen has tested positive for the Dreaded Lurgy


I expect she tested Positive days ago & now they are telling us, as she's over the worst of it.

95 bless her


----------



## Magyarmum

https://planetradio.co.uk/pulse1/uk...Wopd5H_PLxLKrgNgqV2mT3XhLOLHHd2GW__YYxbiInmgI

*The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19*


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I hope so @willa - if she's over the worst, that would be excellent.


----------



## Jesthar

Hopefully the genes that have seen Her Maj reach 95 and still be carrying out royal duties will also kick Covid into the long grass...


----------



## lullabydream

Friends just ordered her daughter a PCR test. 2 weeks ago no charge today £1 delivery!

Daughter will not go to a test centre due to her additional needs.

Can't wait to see how much lateral flow tests are going to be!


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Husband told me earlier that the cost of LFTs and PCRs for January was £2 billion! Flipping heck. Don't know where he read it though...


----------



## lullabydream

Ok backtracking... Sounds like a scam for PCR test...however you can now only order lateral flows every 72 hours instead of 24


----------



## lullabydream

Thursday everything apparently goes back to normal


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> Ok backtracking... Sounds like a scam for PCR test...however you can now only order lateral flows every 72 hours instead of 24


They said it's to reduce people stockpiling them before they stop being free on the 1st of April.


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> They said it's to reduce people stockpiling them before they stop being free on the 1st of April.


I presumed as much. It kind of worries me if we don't have enough but only a few days to go before normality is supposed to hit.

After not catching COVID yet, would love to know I have it and it's not just a cold


----------



## Calvine

lullabydream said:


> Friends just ordered her daughter a PCR test. 2 weeks ago no charge today £1 delivery!
> 
> Daughter will not go to a test centre due to her additional needs.
> 
> Can't wait to see how much lateral flow tests are going to be!


I read £3 . . . we'll see!


----------



## Calvine

Mrs Funkin said:


> Husband told me earlier that the cost of LFTs and PCRs for January was £2 billion! Flipping heck. Don't know where he read it though...


 I read something similar, so I guess it has to stop some time - magic money trees and all that. I only ever used one and could not send the result as ''the system'' would not accept my postcode.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> I read something similar, so I guess it has to stop some time - magic money trees and all that. I only ever used one and could not send the result as ''the system'' would not accept my postcode.


Yes but the Sage data which informs all this decision states that we can't assume the next variation will be less dangerous, that we will peak again without testing and if we return to pre-pandemic behaviour. If the decision wasn't taken with a popularity contest in mind I'd trust it more. Money could've been saved if there had been an ethical approach from the start around protection and other areas. I run a business so I appreciate that lockdowns didn't help. I guess the bit I find most insulting is that the science and medicine don't correlate so it's not based on evidence which clearly shows those behind it have learned nothing about the state of the nation's health - mental or physical.

There is this ludicrous 'pitch' that getting back to normal means the operations backlog will be solved whilst forgetting that the healthcare services were failing before the pandemic for numerous reasons all laid at the door of number 10. Still it's a helpful distraction from partygate and Ukraine. I'll stop ranting my disgust as my words aren't suitable for this forum or this specific thread, the political one being the right one. The man is odious and untrustworthy. Meanwhile I get to have another booster though I can carry and spread. Madness,.


----------



## Jobeth

lullabydream said:


> I presumed as much. It kind of worries me if we don't have enough but only a few days to go before normality is supposed to hit.
> 
> After not catching COVID yet, would love to know I have it and it's not just a cold


I've not had it either but not sure how I've managed it with the work I do. I'm going to make sure I have some so I can keep testing before I see my parents. There are also situations at work where I need to make sure I'm clear before I go in.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> I read £3 . . . we'll see!


We've never had free PCR tests. Until just recently you had to go to a test centre to have one done which cost £36 each time.

You can now buy the PCR Home test kits which cost about £4.50 each.


----------



## Calvine

Jobeth said:


> They said it's to reduce people stockpiling them before they stop being free on the 1st of April.


 The Covid test stockpiling begins: Shameless hoarders reveal mounds of free rapid swabs | Daily Mail Online

I know this is ^^^^^ from DM . . . but! What is wrong with people - I remember some years back when they announced that carrier bags would no longer be free and every carrier bag was grabbed within hours of the announcement apparently. I have only ever requested one box (of seven) tests and still have six tests left.


----------



## Jobeth

Calvine said:


> The Covid test stockpiling begins: Shameless hoarders reveal mounds of free rapid swabs | Daily Mail Online
> 
> I know this is ^^^^^ from DM . . . but! What is wrong with people - I remember some years back when they announced that carrier bags would no longer be free and every carrier bag was grabbed within hours of the announcement apparently. I have only ever requested one box (of seven) tests and still have six tests left.


The children I work with can be clinically vulnerable and I go to various schools. At the moment I have to test twice a week. Those children will still be at risk so I'll carry on to keep them safe.


----------



## Happy Paws2

lullabydream said:


> Thursday everything apparently goes back to normal


I don't think anything will ever be normal again, I shall still wear a mask when I go out and I'll only be going out when I have to.


----------



## Magyarmum

Just announced!

The Queen has cancelled all virtual engagements until further notice.

Oh! and ........ Russia is moving troops into the rebel held areas of Ukraine.


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> Oh! and ........ Russia is moving troops into the rebel held areas of Ukraine.


Ah, the Sudetenland gambit... Wondered how long that would take to happen.

Edit - maybe we need a separate thread for this, though


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Ah, the Sudetenland gambit... Wondered how long that would take to happen.
> 
> Edit - maybe we need a separate thread for this, though


I tacked it on because it came through immediately after the news about the Queen and I thought it was also of some importance.


----------



## Calvine

Jobeth said:


> The children I work with can be clinically vulnerable and I go to various schools. At the moment I have to test twice a week. Those children will still be at risk so I'll carry on to keep them safe.


'Carry on' what?


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> 'Carry on' what?


Doing lateral flow tests twice a week, I suspect...


----------



## Jobeth

Calvine said:


> 'Carry on' what?


Doing a lateral flow test twice a week or more, wearing a mask, having a window open, hand sanitising (or a wipe if they prefer) and cleaning the table etc. with disinfectant wipes.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> The Covid test stockpiling begins: Shameless hoarders reveal mounds of free rapid swabs | Daily Mail Online
> 
> I know this is ^^^^^ from DM . . . but! What is wrong with people - I remember some years back when they announced that carrier bags would no longer be free and every carrier bag was grabbed within hours of the announcement apparently. I have only ever requested one box (of seven) tests and still have six tests left.


I can't bring myself to click on the link, I refuse to give that rag website traffic but one assumes their headline encourages the panic buying in the usual Wail way.

Charging makes it a class and income divide, the well off will be able to keep safe, the rest of us - I don't even think one can say 'poor', it's such a hue part of the population - _anyone_ affected by the cost of living crisis - cannot test or will have to sacrifice something else. By dispensing with testing, the old and vulnerable and those who provide care or essential services, are going to be isolated further. Or brutally only the rich and fit survive so workforces will be wiped out. So many things I've worked on have been delayed due to Covid infection with measures in place. Covid doesn't care about bank balance but the government should.

It was awful to read in this week's Big Issue that homeless people did a lot better than predicted in avoiding Covid but it's no cause to celebrate as it was due to isolation and being lonely.
https://www.bigissue.com/opinion/ho...ong-before-covid-and-it-may-have-saved-lives/


----------



## Jobeth




----------



## Calvine

Jobeth said:


> View attachment 484787


 Boots really are money-grabbing schysters. One of my cats had a prescription for meds that I wanted him to have but which the vet did not stock, so took it to Boots quite a few times (the prescription, not the cat). After a few trips to Boots, happened to be in Sainsbury's so decided to go to Lloyds to get the stuff as I had the script with me. They charged slightly less than half of what Boots had charged. I wrote and told them and they sent me a gift voucher for the extra I had been paying (but could not explain why they were so much more - if it was just a bit more, but when it's more than double it just looks like greed). I must say, this pandemic has made a lot of money for a lot of people in one way or another.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> I can't bring myself to click on the link, I refuse to give that rag website traffic but one assumes their headline encourages the panic buying in the usual Wail way.
> 
> Charging makes it a class and income divide, the well off will be able to keep safe, the rest of us - I don't even think one can say 'poor', it's such a hue part of the population - _anyone_ affected by the cost of living crisis - cannot test or will have to sacrifice something else. By dispensing with testing, the old and vulnerable and those who provide care or essential services, are going to be isolated further. Or brutally only the rich and fit survive so workforces will be wiped out. So many things I've worked on have been delayed due to Covid infection with measures in place. Covid doesn't care about bank balance but the government should.
> 
> It was awful to read in this week's Big Issue that homeless people did a lot better than predicted in avoiding Covid but it's no cause to celebrate as it was due to isolation and being lonely.
> https://www.bigissue.com/opinion/ho...ong-before-covid-and-it-may-have-saved-lives/


 There are several more articles on the subject which you may feel are in a more appropriate publication for your liking.
Families stockpile Covid tests while they're still free | News | The Times


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> Boots really are money-grabbing schysters. One of my cats had a prescription for meds that I wanted him to have but which the vet did not stock, so took it to Boots quite a few times (the prescription, not the cat). After a few trips to Boots, happened to be in Sainsbury's so decided to go to Lloyds to get the stuff as I had the script with me. They charged slightly less than half of what Boots had charged. I wrote and told them and they sent me a gift voucher for the extra I had been paying (but could not explain why they were so much more - if it was just a bit more, but when it's more than double it just looks like greed). I must say, this pandemic has made a lot of money for a lot of people in one way or another.


Was it a different brand of medication? Boots typically use branded medication which costs much, much more than generic (for reasons unknown).


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> There are several more articles on the subject which you may feel are in a more appropriate publication for your liking.
> Families stockpile Covid tests while they're still free | News | The Times


Thanks, no the Times is owned by Murdoch. I refuse to read that because of this documentary on the rise of Murdoch and his manipulation of politics and people is chilling
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000kxw1/the-rise-of-the-murdoch-dynasty


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> Thanks, no the Times is owned by Murdoch. I refuse to read that because of this documentary on the rise of Murdoch and his manipulation of politics and people is chilling
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000kxw1/the-rise-of-the-murdoch-dynasty


 Never mind; I'm sure you will find something to your liking to read ere long.


----------



## Calvine

bmr10 said:


> Was it a different brand of medication? Boots typically use branded medication which costs much, much more than generic (for reasons unknown).


It was exactly the same as Lloyds did for half the price.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Calvine said:


> It was exactly the same as Lloyds did for half the price.


Damn. Glad you eventually found lloyds!!!


----------



## Calvine

Superdrug undercuts Boots and pledges to promote Covid assessments for simply £2 within the coming days - CitiGist

So it starts: as I said, some people have cashed in massively from the pandemic one way or another. The people who are stockpiling them will probably start to flog them on eBay.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Never mind; I'm sure you will find something to your liking to read ere long.


It's very odd as I did a search and the only two papers that lead with this were the Wail and the Times, a bit on Huff and Evening Standard. I'm picky about my reading sources - and I sure, no I _know_ that many of you will  at me - but it's making people panic. They did the same over loo rolls. If the story is reported in a reasonable way them people might feel less alarmed. As it is they're adding to distress and that is unreasonable in my opinion. I've given up on main stream media.


----------



## Calvine

MollySmith said:


> It's very odd as I did a search and the only two papers that lead with this were the Wail and the Times, a bit on Huff and Evening Standard. I'm picky about my reading sources - and I sure, no I _know_ that many of you will  at me - but it's making people panic. They did the same over loo rolls. If the story is reported in a reasonable way them people might feel less alarmed. As it is they're adding to distress and that is unreasonable in my opinion. I've given up on main stream media.


 Maybe some publications thought the Ukraine situation was more important than people worrying about having to pay a few quid for a Covid test w.e.f. April.


----------



## StormyThai

Calvine said:


> Maybe some publications thought the Ukraine situation was more important than people worrying about having to pay a few quid for a Covid test w.e.f. April.


Or maybe the red tops did what the red tops always do...stir up fear and hatred rather than writing factual articles 

How anyone can trust anything the daily rags write is beyond me...especially as the journalists that work for them admit that fact checking just slows things down so they don't bother.


----------



## Calvine

StormyThai said:


> Or maybe the red tops did what the red tops always do


I never heard of _The Times _(one of the papers to which I attached a link) described as a ''red top'' before. One learns something new every day on PF.


----------



## MollySmith

Calvine said:


> Maybe some publications thought the Ukraine situation was more important than people worrying about having to pay a few quid for a Covid test w.e.f. April.


Yes, thank goodness. There's no point causing a panic buy either, a few papers must've learned from the great loo roll crisis of 2020.


----------



## rona

What the hell..........................Why are we no longer getting daily figures?

Not only have they thrown the vulnerable to the wolves, but also taken away the information they need to make informed decisions about their own safety!  :Banghead


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> What the hell..........................Why are we no longer getting daily figures?
> 
> Not only have they thrown the vulnerable to the wolves, but also taken away the information they need to make informed decisions about their own safety!  :Banghead


The website is now so confusing with the 7 day figures which don't really tell you much. I knew they were stopping giving the daily figures for the weekend, but it seems to have stopped during the week as well


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> What the hell..........................Why are we no longer getting daily figures?
> 
> Not only have they thrown the vulnerable to the wolves, but also taken away the information they need to make informed decisions about their own safety!  :Banghead


It's back again on the BBC app.


----------



## rona

Jobeth said:


> It's back again on the BBC app.


I can only find weekly figures!


----------



## Boxer123

The thing is with the figures now people don’t have to isolate I think a lot of people won’t bother with testing so I doubt figures will be accurate.


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> I can only find weekly figures!











I just checked my area and the cases are really low.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Watch out for scam texts … I received one pertaining to be from the NHS re exposure to someone who had tested positive… click link for PCR test ….. ???? No.

Checked my test & trace app and it wasn’t actually on so not scanning … not sure then how I could have been detected.

Deleted the text.

Did a lateral flow just to be sure, which was negative


----------



## MollySmith

Government daily
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/


----------



## MollySmith

rona said:


> What the hell..........................Why are we no longer getting daily figures?
> 
> Not only have they thrown the vulnerable to the wolves, but also taken away the information they need to make informed decisions about their own safety!  :Banghead


Totally agree. I feel more isolated than before, I don't feel I know the figures well enough now to make an informed decision. I have posted government data but uncertain it's accurate and Covid feels like yesterday's news.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Not sure if anyone remembers the debacle of the 4th Covid jab letter I got but I had a tel consult with my GP earlier to follow up my results from bloods for MGUS. I asked him about the 4th jab thing and he says the only thing he can think is that it's because the MGUS has been lumped in with haematological cancers (as it can be a precursor) and so I am deemed at risk. As far as I can see (and he agreed) there is no increased risk of becoming ill from Covid because I have MGUS, so he said he would leave it to me to decide. 

So I think I've decided not. I think.


----------



## StormyThai

So in the last couple of days I have known of 4 people that have tested positive, all 4 have symptoms (which is why they took a test) and all 4 have been told to come into work or face disciplinary action...

2 are chefs, 1 is waiting staff and the fourth is in retail!

Nothing was learnt by business owners then


----------



## rona

StormyThai said:


> So in the last couple of days I have known of 4 people that have tested positive, all 4 have symptoms (which is why they took a test) and all 4 have been told to come into work or face disciplinary action...
> 
> 2 are chefs, 1 is waiting staff and the fourth is in retail!
> 
> Nothing was learnt by business owners then


Great...........just great  :Banghead


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh and I meant to say about the change now re: not needing to be vaccinated if you are a care home worker. I suspect that the government had no choice after they didn’t implement the same rule for the nhs - partly due to strong union responses and protests.


----------



## rona

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh and I meant to say about the change now re: not needing to be vaccinated if you are a care home worker. I suspect that the government had no choice after they didn't implement the same rule for the nhs - partly due to strong union responses and protests.


All those people lost their jobs for a few months restrictions then?


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Absolutely that @rona


----------



## Pawscrossed

A friend was ordered to go back to work. Apparently it's all okay and lawful. I was shocked but it's true, the Government rules say she doesn't need to isolate. She works in hospitality. Why on earth aren't more people protesting about this madness? I realise that Ukraine has taken over the news and so it should but it's almost too good timing for our hopeless PM. I haven't seen Partygate mentioned once lately but he's still a law breaker.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Awful  I guess the only thing to do would be to say you feel ill and stay off that way, even if you don’t feel ill, you just don’t want to spread it. Of course, that only really works if you get sick pay which I know a lot of folk don’t get


----------



## Cully

Pawscrossed said:


> haven't seen Partygate mentioned once lately but he's still a law breaker.


I think it has been shelved for the moment as there are more important things to think about, and rightly so imo. But I don't expect it to go away.


----------



## kimthecat

Calvine said:


> I never heard of _The Times _(one of the papers to which I attached a link) described as a ''red top'' before. One learns something new every day on PF.


 Remember this poem :Hilarious:Hilarious*

The Times* is read by the people who run the country.
The *Daily Mirror* is read by the people who think they run the country.
*The Guardian* is read by the people who think they ought to run the country.
The *Morning Star* is read by the people who think the country ought to be run by another country.
*The Independent* is read by people who don't know who runs the country but are sure they're doing it wrong.
The *Daily Mail* is read by the wives of the people who run the country.
The *Financial Times* is read by the people who own the country.
The *Daily Express* is read by the people who think the country ought to be run as it used to be run.
The *Daily Telegraph* is read by the people who still think it _is_ their country.
And the *Sun*_'s_ readers don't care who runs the country providing she has big tits.


----------



## kimthecat

https://www.theguardian.com/society...with-long-term-illness?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

More than a third of working-age people in the UK now suffer from a long-term illness, with new figures showing a dramatic rise since the pandemic began. Post-Covid conditions, including long Covid, breathing difficulties and mental-health problems, are among the causes, according to disability charities and health campaigners.


----------



## MollySmith

We're meant to be going away tomorrow, I'm so anxious about it, I've barely eaten all day. It's madness and not like me but making me think about how small the world is for those of us who are vulnerable and even more so.


----------



## Jobeth

I found this article interesting (www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/07/never-caught-covid-immune-systems-vaccines) as it questions why some people have never caught covid. I've been in close contact at least twice and test on a regular basis. It can't be that frequent exposure to coughs/colds has helped build an immune response as those working in education/health are the most likely to catch it.


----------



## Boxer123

Jobeth said:


> I found this article interesting (www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/07/never-caught-covid-immune-systems-vaccines) as it questions why some people have never caught covid. I've been in close contact at least twice and test on a regular basis. It can't be that frequent exposure to coughs/colds has helped build an immune response as those working in education/health are the most likely to catch it.


I've been in close contact several times and so far (touch wood) haven't caught it. I keep expecting to.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Boxer123 said:


> I've been in close contact several times and so far (touch wood) haven't caught it. I keep expecting to.


Same here. Work in a school too. I think I probably have had it but if I have never shown up on LFT or PCR tests.

Last Dec I got my usual winter sniffs, no symptoms of COVID though. If it was Omicron my immune system did a good job. All tests for 7 days were negative.


----------



## Jobeth

Boxer123 said:


> I've been in close contact several times and so far (touch wood) haven't caught it. I keep expecting to.


You work with children, and adults that don't wear masks, as well so must have the same level of exposure. I just find it interesting that some teachers have had it several times and some (not that many) have not had it yet.


----------



## rona

I see the figures of cases are shooting up while the testing has dropped


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> I found this article interesting (www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/07/never-caught-covid-immune-systems-vaccines) as it questions why some people have never caught covid. I've been in close contact at least twice and test on a regular basis. It can't be that frequent exposure to coughs/colds has helped build an immune response as those working in education/health are the most likely to catch it.


It's been known for many years that a small percentage of the population will have a natural immunity to certain diseases.

https://www.medicaldaily.com/why-some-people-are-immune-hiv-ebola-and-other-diseases-397940

*Why Some People Are Immune To HIV, Ebola, And Other Diseases*


----------



## O2.0

MissKittyKat said:


> Same here. Work in a school too. I think I probably have had it but if I have never shown up on LFT or PCR tests.
> 
> Last Dec I got my usual winter sniffs, no symptoms of COVID though. If it was Omicron my immune system did a good job. All tests for 7 days were negative.


Same here too. I've been a direct contact twice, no symptoms, repeated negative tests. And I'm in a school around unmasked kids all day.

There should be a fairly large population of health care workers in big cities like New York who were repeatedly exposed (before the vaccine was available) who never got sick. I wonder why we haven't specifically studied these people and the essential workers like teachers who have also been repeatedly exposed and not gotten sick. That could give us some good information to keep others from getting sick.


----------



## Siskin

My daughter didn’t get it when her fiancé did. They live in a small flat so he couldn’t isolate himself, she tested daily and worked from home, but she remained clear.


----------



## O2.0

Siskin said:


> My daughter didn't get it when her fiancé did. They live in a small flat so he couldn't isolate himself, she tested daily and worked from home, but she remained clear.


Yup. Both my kids got it, before vaccines were available. 
When my daughter tested positive, we had spent 6 hours in a car together the day before! I never tested positive and never had symptoms.


----------



## mrs phas

Siskin said:


> My daughter didn't get it when her fiancé did. They live in a small flat so he couldn't isolate himself, she tested daily and worked from home, but she remained clear.


None of my boys have had it, neither have I.

Three of my boys, and I, are immune compromised

Ones partner and partners son both had Omicron, yet daily lfts, for him, remained negative, despite him and his partner sharing a bed
He runs a pub so probably the most face to face job outside the nhs

Two worked through all shut downs, as were classed as 'key workers' - facing all of the danger, but getting none of the applause 
One was furloughed and had to rely on food banks to feed family

Matt and I self isolated for best part of 18m, but still attended hospital appointments, where we could well have come in contact with positive carriers

I still wear face masks shopping and in the street and still don't go 'in for the hug' with people, even those I know well (and I WAS one of those horrible huggy people you all seem to hate)

None of us know anyone whose had severe, hospitalisable, or, died from covid

I consider my family and friends extremely fortunate


----------



## ForestWomble

Magyarmum said:


> It's been known for many years that a small percentage of the population will have a natural immunity to certain diseases.
> 
> https://www.medicaldaily.com/why-some-people-are-immune-hiv-ebola-and-other-diseases-397940
> 
> *Why Some People Are Immune To HIV, Ebola, And Other Diseases*


That's interesting, I remember when I was little both my parents came down with a nasty 'stomach flu', both really ill, in bed for a week and taking another couple of weeks to fully recover, they were expecting me to come down with it and I never did. Even though I was in the same house, using the same bathroom etc.


----------



## Siskin

mrs phas said:


> None of my boys have had it, neither have I.
> 
> Three of my boys, and I, are immune compromised
> 
> Ones partner and partners son both had Omicron, yet daily lfts, for him, remained negative, despite him and his partner sharing a bed
> He runs a pub so probably the most face to face job outside the nhs
> 
> Two worked through all shut downs, as were classed as 'key workers' - facing all of the danger, but getting none of the applause
> One was furloughed and had to rely on food banks to feed family
> 
> Matt and I self isolated for best part of 18m, but still attended hospital appointments, where we could well have come in contact with positive carriers
> 
> I still wear face masks shopping and in the street and still don't go 'in for the hug' with people, even those I know well (and I WAS one of those horrible huggy people you all seem to hate)
> 
> None of us know anyone whose had severe, hospitalisable, or, died from covid
> 
> I consider my family and friends extremely fortunate


Like you I spent a lot of time either in hospital or going to appointments and seemed not have had Covid although apart from staying in hospital where there were regular PCR tests I haven't been frequently testing. There was a week about the middle of January when I was a bit sniffly, felt tired and appetite was poor, but it was only a few days and I was recovering from an operation, so never bothered to test as I didn't feel that bad, just a bit off for a few days. I do wonder sometimes whether that was perhaps Covid or just me feeling a bit off after the op.


----------



## MollySmith

New report on variants
https://assets.publishing.service.g...1060337/Technical-Briefing-38-11March2022.pdf


----------



## MollySmith

And analysis from Dr Deepa Gurdasani Senior Lecturer at Queen Mary College Uni of London


----------



## Lurcherlad

I watched the Kate Garroway programme where they show 3D images of patients’ insides with certain health conditions.

This week one patient had been hospitalised with severe covid … the images of her lungs and the effects from the virus were pretty scary.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> I watched the Kate Garroway programme where they show 3D images of patients' insides with certain health conditions.
> 
> This week one patient had been hospitalised with severe covid … the images of her lungs and the effects from the virus were pretty scary.


i can imagine. Covid is not mentioned in the news at all now. Even putting up latest figures to remind the world it's still around keeps it in mind.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I still have the fear of long Covid. 

The FT analyst who has done so much brilliant work regarding Covid has in his most recent analysis said that Covid is now less lethal than ‘flu for most people but given the increased transmitability and the fact people are mixing more, the numbers will rise (as they have in Scotland I guess). However I suspect the bit people will hang onto is that it’s now less lethal than ‘flu.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> I watched the Kate Garroway programme where they show 3D images of patients' insides with certain health conditions.
> 
> This week one patient had been hospitalised with severe covid … the images of her lungs and the effects from the virus were pretty scary.


could you tell me the name of this programme? It sounds very interesting!


----------



## Lurcherlad

bmr10 said:


> could you tell me the name of this programme? It sounds very interesting!


Your Body Uncovered … BBC2


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh no  pal I saw twice on Friday (once for a run and a cuppa in our kitchen) and then for an hour in their kitchen on Friday night has messaged last night to say she has the Dreaded Lurgy. Positive LFT last night. Of course, we’d sat in the pub for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon with two other pals before we knew  That will teach me for trying to do normal things, won’t it? 

Negative LFT for me this morning but I’m now totally paranoid.


----------



## Boxer123

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh no  pal I saw twice on Friday (once for a run and a cuppa in our kitchen) and then for an hour in their kitchen on Friday night has messaged last night to say she has the Dreaded Lurgy. Positive LFT last night. Of course, we'd sat in the pub for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon with two other pals before we knew  That will teach me for trying to do normal things, won't it?
> 
> Negative LFT for me this morning but I'm now totally paranoid.


Hopefully you will be fine. I've had several close contacts and not picked it up so fingers crossed.


----------



## catz4m8z

Jobeth said:


> I found this article interesting (www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/07/never-caught-covid-immune-systems-vaccines) as it questions why some people have never caught covid. I've been in close contact at least twice and test on a regular basis. It can't be that frequent exposure to coughs/colds has helped build an immune response as those working in education/health are the most likely to catch it.


Im sure my best friend has some sort of super immunity to it as well. She worked all through the pandemic as a respiratory nurse (so dealing first hand with covid cases) and spent her days off working on the covid wards with the sickest patients, and yet has never had covid. Even when all the staff in her tiny office got it at once she tested negative!
Has to be something in her immune system surely? (mind you this is also a person who has never allowed herself to have a day off sick in her entire life so I imagine she just noped any covid bugs right out of her vicinity!LOL:Hilarious).



Lurcherlad said:


> This week one patient had been hospitalised with severe covid … the images of her lungs and the effects from the virus were pretty scary.


It can have a horrible effect on your lungs. Back at the beginning before testing was properly in place and accurate lung x-rays were used as a pretty good indicator if somebody had covid. It caused quite specific damage to your lungs.

I suppose it was inevitable that numbers would creep up again. Im more interested in what that means TBH though. How are the death rates? How does it compare with flu for instance?
We know its something we are going to be stuck with and hopefully it will slot itself into being something between a cold and flu....


----------



## MissKittyKat

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh no  pal I saw twice on Friday (once for a run and a cuppa in our kitchen) and then for an hour in their kitchen on Friday night has messaged last night to say she has the Dreaded Lurgy. Positive LFT last night. Of course, we'd sat in the pub for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon with two other pals before we knew  That will teach me for trying to do normal things, won't it?
> 
> Negative LFT for me this morning but I'm now totally paranoid.


Fingers crossed. We are still testing our pupils once a week as we seem to get a better response from them.

One of the kids looked a bit iffy but tested negative, got home and tested positive.

Grateful for my PPE but will also be fingers crossed and testing everyday again


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh boooo @MissKittyKat - I'm totally fed up of shoving cotton buds up my nose now and waiting for the blooming line to appear. Though my friend did say her line appeared before the solution had even filled the window.

Hope yours is negative too. I'm deffo talking myself into symptoms.


----------



## Siskin

Several people I was with on Wednesday at WI have now started testing positive for Covid.


----------



## simplysardonic

We've got a case in our house, youngest tested positive last night he's got it mildly so that's something, I have cold like symptoms but LFs are coming back negative, but we've ordered PCRs for everyone.

By some good fortune my OH has been over my nepew's the last few days dogsitting, & he's going to stay on there until we're clear as he's clinically vulnerable.


----------



## stuaz

Hopefully everyone in this thread who knows family and friends who have contracted it recently are double/triple vaccinated. The effects should be massively reduced.


----------



## MissKittyKat

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh boooo @MissKittyKat - I'm totally fed up of shoving cotton buds up my nose now and waiting for the blooming line to appear. Though my friend did say her line appeared before the solution had even filled the window.
> 
> Hope yours is negative too. I'm deffo talking myself into symptoms.


I had a chat with our headteacher and just said I'm not doing school work tonight but going for a run, so my strategy at the moment is to try and run away


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I think it's worth a try @MissKittyKat


----------



## catz4m8z

stuaz said:


> Hopefully everyone in this thread who knows family and friends who have contracted it recently are double/triple vaccinated. The effects should be massively reduced.


yup, thats the thing...make sure you are vaccinated.
I never understand antivaxxers. I mean often they are happy to use mobile phones, live near polluted roads, smoke or drink, take medications or have medical treatments and yet vaccines are the thing that is just going too far!
When it comes to putting harmful man made things in your body Id be more concerned about the effects of too much booze or deli meats TBH!:Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

What is the latest in how long vaccines last? It’s over 6 months since my husband and I had our last ones. My dad has been invited for his 4th. It seems a bit arbitrary.

I work two days a week for a company and the rest on my own business. I’m being encouraged to go back into the workspace for one day a week (to meet targets I imagine) having worked effectively for the past two years at home and been Covid-free so far. Yet to go into a pub or coffee shop and back to shopping being delivered. If I get it, I do not get sick pay from my own business. So if someone gets sick in the company, I could possibly lose clients in my own business which I’ve been diligently avoiding for two years with no social life to speak off. My colleagues in the company have been out and about. I feel really defensive and edgy about it all to the point I’m going to leave if they keep on.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I would share your anguish about it @MollySmith - whilst I know we can only be responsible for ourselves, we do get forced into situations we wouldn't choose to put ourselves in.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> I would share your anguish about it @MollySmith - whilst I know we can only be responsible for ourselves, we do get forced into situations we wouldn't choose to put ourselves in.


Everyone else would be covered by sick pay for 5 days, I'd get two days due to my contract and it's pretty clear Covid even minor cases lasts more than two days. Sigh. It's a horrendous decision as the two days have been useful £ but I can't risk this just to make distant bosses, who don't give a toss about me working part time or have even bothered to be in touch, feel better.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Horrid decision @MollySmith but I would say that if the money is useful, that has to be a big consideration. Are you physically very close to your colleagues in the workspace? Is there a way you can be there but in your own space? Could you negotiate to one day a fortnight going in? Could you use the latest Covid numbers to buy you some time, then when things settle a little you might feel more able to go in?

As you know I've struggled with reintegration into the world beyond work (and a supermarket!). I do feel better about things - even with the current daily LFTs due to exposure on Friday. I've had to force myself though and I know that not everyone wants to force themselves.


----------



## Lurcherlad

A bit of a dilemma @MollySmith but even though the 2 days' money is useful, mixing with the office could jeopardise your other 3 days' earnings (and clients, but your own health more importantly, potentially).

It seems perfectly reasonable for you to continue working from home, so I'd keep holding out if you can.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Horrid decision @MollySmith but I would say that if the money is useful, that has to be a big consideration. Are you physically very close to your colleagues in the workspace? Is there a way you can be there but in your own space? Could you negotiate to one day a fortnight going in? Could you use the latest Covid numbers to buy you some time, then when things settle a little you might feel more able to go in?
> 
> As you know I've struggled with reintegration into the world beyond work (and a supermarket!). I do feel better about things - even with the current daily LFTs due to exposure on Friday. I've had to force myself though and I know that not everyone wants to force themselves.


Thank you, those are good observations which I don't know the answer to at the moment. I'm just going to avoid the conversation until I absolutely have to. They've removed all the restrictions and I think it's down to teams. Unfortunately the contract I have there is more relaxed than I am and thinks it's 'fun' to go in. I don't think there's any obligation too - I hope not. It's all a bit woolly!



Lurcherlad said:


> A bit of a dilemma @MollySmith but even though the 2 days' money is useful, mixing with the office could jeopardise your other 3 days' earnings (and clients, but your own health more importantly, potentially).
> 
> It seems perfectly reasonable for you to continue working from home, so I'd keep holding out if you can.


Thank you. It's this idea of targets when feelings really should matter more otherwise it's a mental health crisis for loads. I'm lucky to have had the privilege when others have not.


----------



## kimthecat

stuaz said:


> Hopefully everyone in this thread who knows family and friends who have contracted it recently are double/triple vaccinated. The effects should be massively reduced.


There is a forth vaccination available for vulnerable people . I'm waiting to hear from my GP.

China have brought in new restrictions as it is spreading there.
It hasnt gone away in the uk , its not news anymore.


----------



## stuaz

kimthecat said:


> There is a forth vaccination available for vulnerable people . I'm waiting to hear from my GP.
> 
> China have brought in new restrictions as it is spreading there.
> It hasnt gone away in the uk , its not news anymore.


It won't ever go away. It will always be around.


----------



## willa

I know more people who currently have Covid, than the past 2 years combined !
It’s everywhere


----------



## rona

willa said:


> I know more people who currently have Covid, than the past 2 years combined !


Same here


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Today's update from work is:

"We have 211 patients in our hospitals with Covid, which is more than our winter peak. We also have more than 150 patients exposed to Covid, causing ward and bed closures and significant problems with patient flow. Covid related staff absences have also risen to 420, which is 201 more than last week and causing workforce pressures."

Not that you'd think many people were taking it seriously at all...

I am still testing negative after my "close contact", hopefully it will stay that way. Not sure how long I will keep testing for...the incubation period is so variable.


----------



## Siskin

Must admit I’m surprised to have avoided Covid as a lot of the ladies at WI last Wednesday have come down with it.


----------



## rona

Mrs Funkin said:


> I am still testing negative after my "close contact", hopefully it will stay that way. Not sure how long I will keep testing for...the incubation period is so variable.


Most people I know, have come down with it within 4 days of contact


----------



## Calvine

When Covid restrictions were lifted (??February?), Sadiq Khan implied that despite the restrictions being lifted, TFL would prefer to see people wearing masks on public transport; but I noticed this week that all the signage has now been removed from the buses (despite which, it looked to me as though nearly everyone is still wearing a mask on the buses at least).


----------



## Lurcherlad

Felt like I was coming down with a bit of a cold yesterday evening …. Did a test this morning and it came up Positive almost immediately.

Same batch that has given negatives before.

Will do another test (from another batch) Monday to see where I am then.

Will be isolating from OH and DS and won’t be going out, obviously.

Feel fine … hope it stays that way.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Felt like I was coming down with a bit of a cold yesterday evening …. Did a test this morning and it came up Positive almost immediately.
> 
> Same batch that has given negatives before.
> 
> Will do another test (from another batch) Monday to see where I am then.
> 
> Will be isolating from OH and DS and won't be going out, obviously.
> 
> Feel fine … hope it stays that way.


Fingers crossed you stay well.


----------



## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Felt like I was coming down with a bit of a cold yesterday evening …. Did a test this morning and it came up Positive almost immediately.
> 
> Same batch that has given negatives before.
> 
> Will do another test (from another batch) Monday to see where I am then.
> 
> Will be isolating from OH and DS and won't be going out, obviously.
> 
> Feel fine … hope it stays that way.


Sorry to hear the news. Hope you'll remain feeling OK. Take care of yourself.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh no @Lurcherlad  Pesky blooming Covid...I do feel there's no escape now from it.

I hope you continue to feel okay and get over it super quickly.


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Felt like I was coming down with a bit of a cold yesterday evening …. Did a test this morning and it came up Positive almost immediately.
> 
> Same batch that has given negatives before.
> 
> Will do another test (from another batch) Monday to see where I am then.
> 
> Will be isolating from OH and DS and won't be going out, obviously.
> 
> Feel fine … hope it stays that way.


Oh no, I'm so sorry. I have all paws crossed it will be mild. (Hugs)


----------



## Lurcherlad

Thanks all for the well wishes 

So far, still just mild symptoms… little bit achy, headache and dry throat with an occasional cough.

Living in a small 2 up/2 down, I’ve had to take over the lounge to keep away from OH and DS.

I have access to the garden so will spend some time out there today, making myself useful in the sunshine.


----------



## Calvine

Lurcherlad said:


> Thanks all for the well wishes
> 
> So far, still just mild symptoms… little bit achy, headache and dry throat with an occasional cough.
> 
> Living in a small 2 up/2 down, I've had to take over the lounge to keep away from OH and DS.
> 
> I have access to the garden so will spend some time out there today, making myself useful in the sunshine.


 Glad you don't feel too bad - you're right, it's the trying to keep away from other people that's a bit tedious. XX


----------



## Happy Paws2

The Covid numbers in our area are shooting up again, I was just feeling better about going out for a little bit of shopping now and then now I'm worried again.


----------



## ForestWomble

Hope your symptoms continue to be mild @Lurcherlad and you are better soon.


----------



## simplysardonic

willa said:


> I know more people who currently have Covid, than the past 2 years combined !
> It's everywhere


Same here! Youngest son had it, now testing negative, & my daughter had it, she hasn't done a test yet today so we don't know if she's now negative.

I've had a chesty cough, sore throat & runny nose all week but have consistently tested negative, including my PCR, as has everyone else.

Several neighbours are currently dealing with it as well & everyone local I've spoken to have said they either have had it very recently recently or know several people who have.


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> Thanks all for the well wishes
> 
> So far, still just mild symptoms… little bit achy, headache and dry throat with an occasional cough.
> 
> Living in a small 2 up/2 down, I've had to take over the lounge to keep away from OH and DS.
> 
> *I have access to the garden so will spend some time out there today, making myself useful in the sunshine.*


That's what I've been doing this last week, weather's been gorgeous. Today's not so bright so I'm going to throw myself into the housework.


----------



## Lurcherlad

simplysardonic said:


> That's what I've been doing this last week, weather's been gorgeous. Today's not so bright so I'm going to throw myself into the housework.


Hope you're over it soon


----------



## Lurcherlad

Ugh! A rough night 

Felt pretty rough (flu like symptoms) a throat that felt like I was swallowing broken glass, a thick headache and unable to get comfortable or sleep past 0100 

Sipped a mug of hot lemon and honey, sucked a couple of strepsils and took some paracetamol, which eventually eased the throat, and a cold flannel on my forehead but still unable to nod off … frustrating.

I keep checking my lung capacity with deep breaths (not very scientific) … thankfully, seems unaffected … which is my biggest worry, having seen the effects covid can have on them.

Been laying here listening to the birds waking up … the Blackbird is the loudest 

I should write a shopping list for OH as I won’t be going anywhere for the next few days and fresh supplies are running out.


----------



## Boxer123

Lurcherlad said:


> Ugh! A rough night
> 
> Felt pretty rough (flu like symptoms) a throat that felt like I was swallowing broken glass, a thick headache and unable to get comfortable or sleep past 0100
> 
> Sipped a mug of hot lemon and honey, sucked a couple of strepsils and took some paracetamol, which eventually eased the throat, and a cold flannel on my forehead but still unable to nod off … frustrating.
> 
> I keep checking my lung capacity with deep breaths (not very scientific) … thankfully, seems unaffected … which is my biggest worry, having seen the effects covid can have on them.
> 
> Been laying here listening to the birds waking up … the Blackbird is the loudest
> 
> I should write a shopping list for OH as I won't be going anywhere for the next few days and fresh supplies are running out.


Duvet day for you today @Lurcherlad.


----------



## MollySmith

Just checking to see how you both are @simplysardonic and @Lurcherlad. No need to reply but just to say that I hope you're both recovering ((hugs))


----------



## simplysardonic

MollySmith said:


> Just checking to see how you both are @simplysardonic and @Lurcherlad. No need to reply but just to say that I hope you're both recovering ((hugs))


Aww thanks!

We're all testing negative, youngest is still chesty & has just received a course of steroids as he was recently diagnosed with asthma, I do wonder if he's had it worse as he's only had the first vaccine so far.


----------



## MollySmith

simplysardonic said:


> Aww thanks!
> 
> We're all testing negative, youngest is still chesty & has just received a course of steroids as he was recently diagnosed with asthma, I do wonder if he's had it worse as he's only had the first vaccine so far.


Oh bless him. I hope the steroids do the trick.


----------



## DogLover1981

I got a bizarre runny nose for a few days and ever since, I do wonder if it was COVID-19. Apparently, some people get really mild symptoms. I did get the shots and booster which may have helped.


----------



## Magyarmum

A friend of mine has just tested positive for Covid. She's in her early 60's with several underlying health conditions. What is worrying is that she refused to be vaccinated. Her family are just hoping she won't be too ill and end up in hospital.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> Just checking to see how you both are @simplysardonic and @Lurcherlad. No need to reply but just to say that I hope you're both recovering ((hugs))


Still feeling pretty rough, but maybe a bit more "with it" this morning, thanks.


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Still feeling pretty rough, but maybe a bit more "with it" this morning, thanks.


So pleased you're feeling a bit better.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

So I am meant to be going out out tomorrow night. With people. And a band. And dancing. And drinking. 

I'm blooming terrified. I am going to have to make myself go or I am never going to go anywhere again that involves more than a handful of folk. 

Woe betide anyone that tries to come near me to give me a kiss or hug hello!


----------



## Happy Paws2

The numbers getting worrying high again.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Well, thanks to covid I missed a trip to London today with OH and a stay in a nice hotel (with an upgraded room due to some noise from the outside aircon last time) 

I persuaded OH to go anyway … he needed a bit of R&R and he could relax in the hotel without having to dodge me and my germs at home.

DS met up with him after work and they’ve been sending me pics of the slap up meal they are having


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, thanks to covid I missed a trip to London today with OH and a stay in a nice hotel (with an upgraded room due to some noise from the outside aircon last time)
> 
> I persuaded OH to go anyway … he needed a bit of R&R and he could relax in the hotel without having to dodge me and my germs at home.
> 
> DS met up with him after work and they've been sending me pics of the slap up meal they are having


Gutted for you having to miss it


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, thanks to covid I missed a trip to London today with OH and a stay in a nice hotel (with an upgraded room due to some noise from the outside aircon last time)
> 
> I persuaded OH to go anyway … he needed a bit of R&R and he could relax in the hotel without having to dodge me and my germs at home.
> 
> DS met up with him after work and they've been sending me pics of the slap up meal they are having


That's a shame you had to miss it. 
With a bit of luck both OH and DS will feel a bit guilty and will make it up to you with a special treat.
Now sit down and write your wish list.


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> So I am meant to be going out out tomorrow night. With people. And a band. And dancing. And drinking.
> 
> I'm blooming terrified. I am going to have to make myself go or I am never going to go anywhere again that involves more than a handful of folk.
> 
> Woe betide anyone that tries to come near me to give me a kiss or hug hello!


If you're really against it you could always use the rise in cases as an excuse. If people know you they'll understand your reasons.
Try planning what you'll wear and see how that makes you feel.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I'm thinking a bin bag @Cully given the size of me at the moment


----------



## Cully

Mrs Funkin said:


> I'm thinking a bin bag @Cully given the size of me at the moment


Oh and no one else will have gained any covid weight during the last two years. 
I expect they're all worrying about it too.
If it was fancy dress you could wear one of those virus spikes we've seen so much of. No one would go near you then!


----------



## simplysardonic

Still testing negative, but along with the blocked nose I now have a blocked left ear


----------



## Lurcherlad

Still tested positive this morning … day 9 

@simplysardonic my nose, throat and ears have been quite badly affected…all the membranes have been aggravated by the virus.

I've been sucking strong menthol strepsils to keep my tubes clear.

I'm feeling a lot better but energy is sapped very quick.


----------



## simplysardonic

Lurcherlad said:


> Still tested positive this morning … day 9
> 
> @simplysardonic my nose, throat and ears have been quite badly affected…all the membranes have been aggravated by the virus.
> 
> I've been sucking strong menthol strepsils to keep my tubes clear.
> 
> I'm feeling a lot better but energy is sapped very quick.


Yes, mine is too.

I'm not convinced it's not covid I have, & even if it is 'just' a nasty cold I'm taking precautions because no one wants this!


----------



## Cully

Hope you get better soon, whatever it is you've got!! Have you tried that new nasal wash that's been on tv lately? CR what it's called.


----------



## HarlequinCat

Hope you all feel better soon!

It's funny how covid affects people differently. My sister is just getting over it and for her it just felt like a head cold.

I'm sure I've had it. I had an unusual cold a month or 2 back, I had a streaming nose and then everything was bunged up ears and nose. I was hot but didn't have a temperature and I just felt drained. All the tests I took were negative though


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> Still tested positive this morning … day 9


OH's sister was positive for 11 days.

Glad you are feeling a bit better


----------



## Lurcherlad

Yay! At last … I was going stir crazy stuck at home for 9 days … the rules state I can go out tomorrow… I shall go out for a walk across the fields, passing Jack's daffodils


----------



## Cully

Lurcherlad said:


> View attachment 486271
> 
> 
> Yay! At last … I was going stir crazy stuck at home for 9 days … the rules state I can go out tomorrow… I shall go out for a walk across the fields, passing Jack's daffodils


----------



## simplysardonic

HarlequinCat said:


> Hope you all feel better soon!
> 
> It's funny how covid affects people differently. My sister is just getting over it and for her it just felt like a head cold.
> 
> *I'm sure I've had it. I had an unusual cold a month or 2 back, I had a streaming nose and then everything was bunged up ears and nose. I was hot but didn't have a temperature and I just felt drained. All the tests I took were negative though*


That sounds exactly like what I'm going through, alongside a really sore throat. It's really sticking around as it's 2 weeks tomorrow since I woke with symptoms, my ear is still not right but tests have all been negative for 2 weeks now!


----------



## Lurcherlad

simplysardonic said:


> That sounds exactly like what I'm going through, alongside a really sore throat. It's really sticking around as it's 2 weeks tomorrow since I woke with symptoms, my ear is still not right but tests have all been negative for 2 weeks now!


Have you tried antihistamines?

It might also be worth seeing your GP as you could have been left with an ear infection, which will probably need meds.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> the rules state I can go out tomorrow…


I thought you could go out when you have got it now?


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> I thought you could go out when you have got it now?


Apparently not, a minster on TV yesterday said "if you have you covid the same rules still apply"


----------



## Happy Paws2

I still find the it very worrying, the numbers are getting really high again, I know the death numbers aren't that high but surely if we just kept wearing masks it would help keep the numbers down and protect the vulnerable among us. 

I started to feel as if I could start going out again, Now I'm not going out unless I have to.


----------



## simplysardonic

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still find the it very worrying, the numbers are getting really high again, I know the death numbers aren't that high but surely if we* just kept wearing masks* it would help keep the numbers down and protect the vulnerable among us.
> 
> I started to feel as if I could start going out again, Now I'm not going out unless I have to.


I'm still wearing mine in indoor public spaces, as are all my family, but most people aren't, so not sure how effective it is, but at least I feel I'm reducing the risk of passing it, or any other viruses to someone who might be vulnerable.

@Lurcherlad I'll grab my antihistamines, I have a supply for when the pollen count's high.

I'm going to give it another day & if it's still blocked I'll phone the doctors, just sat over a bowl of hot water & it's helped clear it a little.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> I thought you could go out when you have got it now?












I've been following these guidelines from gov.uk, though I don't think there is a legal obligation to isolate now, unlike before.

I'd rather isolate than risk passing it on to someone less able to cope with it than me. I tested because of OH to protect him primarily but it wouldn't seem right to then go out and about and risk other vulnerable people.

I don't work, so there really is no need for me not to follow the guidelines.

I drive a friend to visit her daughter in a care home once a week usually, and have avoided her for the duration, but can take her later on this week.


----------



## Happy Paws2

simplysardonic said:


> I'm still wearing mine in indoor public spaces, as are all my family, but most people aren't, so not sure how effective it is, but at least I feel I'm reducing the risk of passing it, or any other viruses to someone who might be vulnerable.


My OH and myself are still wearing ours as well, but last week when I went to Sainsbury's I'd more weren't wearing as was, even though there a sigh out side asking people to still wear them.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still find the it very worrying, the numbers are getting really high again, I know the death numbers aren't that high but surely if we just kept wearing masks it would help keep the numbers down and protect the vulnerable among us.
> 
> I started to feel as if I could start going out again, Now I'm not going out unless I have to.


Scotland and Wales have had masks until now. Wales have just dropped the use of but Scotland extended because their Covid numbers are very high, much higher than England.
I think it has a lot to do with the difference pub culture in both countries. Scottish people seem to almost all go to the pub on a weekend, even the country people seem to look forward to their nights out, the Welsh don't seem to have quite the same imperative to socialize in a pub.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Community pharmacies in Scotland are no longer distributing lateral flows ): Had a lot of people come into the pharmacy this weekend who weren't aware and were very disappointed. The only option is to order them online but many older, vulnerable people have limited access to the internet. I felt very sorry for them. Thankfully, I still receive them for free due to working in healthcare (though I have read this is about to change in England- good luck to the English nurses on PF!).


----------



## Siskin

Just been chatting to the partner of the lady across the road who came down with Covid last Monday. She’s feeling a lot better although tires easily still. She is also still testing positive but the line is much fainter now so hopefully will be clear very soon. He however remains clear of Covid despite them being in close contact when she was infectious.


----------



## lullabydream

Drat! My youngest has just tested positive. He's usually really resilient when it comes to colds and no matter how bad he feels he still goes to work. Today he rang in sick. He didn't expect it to be COVID though, just flu as he feels really poorly


----------



## Lurcherlad

lullabydream said:


> Drat! My youngest has just tested positive. He's usually really resilient when it comes to colds and no matter how bad he feels he still goes to work. Today he rang in sick. He didn't expect it to be COVID though, just flu as he feels really poorly


Hope he's feeling better soon.


----------



## simplysardonic

lullabydream said:


> Drat! My youngest has just tested positive. He's usually really resilient when it comes to colds and no matter how bad he feels he still goes to work. Today he rang in sick. He didn't expect it to be COVID though, just flu as he feels really poorly


Oh no 

Hope he feels better soon!


----------



## HarlequinCat

lullabydream said:


> Drat! My youngest has just tested positive. He's usually really resilient when it comes to colds and no matter how bad he feels he still goes to work. Today he rang in sick. He didn't expect it to be COVID though, just flu as he feels really poorly


Oh no, hope he's feeling better soon!


----------



## rona

Got an unexpected and unordered pack of free LFTs. Must be because I'm classed as vulnerable


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Got an unexpected and unordered pack of free LFTs. Must be because I'm classed as vulnerable


We have had a pack each arrive last week.


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Got an unexpected and unordered pack of free LFTs. Must be because I'm classed as vulnerable





Happy Paws2 said:


> We have had a pack each arrive last week.


Two more have just come though the post.


----------



## lullabydream

I know my son hasn't been hospitalised or anything. But boy he's been feeling really rough with COVID. 
He's 24 and usually such gets on with things. This really knocked him for 6 though.

He's getting better he says but to me he still looks quite ill.


----------



## willa

Just under 5 million had Covid In past week !


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> Two more have just come though the post.


Have you used any of the first lot and how often do you test?


----------



## rona

lullabydream said:


> I know my son hasn't been hospitalised or anything. But boy he's been feeling really rough with COVID.
> He's 24 and usually such gets on with things. This really knocked him for 6 though.
> 
> He's getting better he says but to me he still looks quite ill.


There seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to who it affects badly. I know of 3 highly vulnerable that have just had sniffles


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> There seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to who it affects badly. I know of 3 highly vulnerable that have just had sniffles


Or just not had it altogether despite being elderly as well as vulnerable


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> Have you used any of the first lot and how often do you test?


#]

To be honest I've never used one yet.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> #]
> 
> To be honest I've never used one yet.


We can do a bit of black marketing then 

Bet they are registered to us though!


----------



## kimthecat

@Lurcherlad . How are you feeling now?


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> @Lurcherlad . How are you feeling now?


Pretty much back to normal thanks, apart from still having a bit of an annoying cough now and then and energy runs out fast.


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Pretty much back to normal thanks, apart from still having a bit of an annoying cough now and then and energy runs out fast.


My neighbour who had Covid the same time as you is reporting the same after effects. She's progressed to dog walking but conks out for an hour or so when she gets home.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> My neighbour who had Covid the same time as you is reporting the same after effects. She's progressed to dog walking but conks out for an hour or so when she gets home.


OH and I went into town shopping then had lunch … I nodded off on the sofa when we got back


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> Pretty much back to normal thanks, apart from still having a bit of an annoying cough now and then and energy runs out fast.


Thats good. Hope your cough gets better.

Im having my 4th jab on Monday . My GP surgery contacted me so I thought I might as well.


----------



## Jobeth

Siskin said:


> Or just not had it altogether despite being elderly as well as vulnerable


In Ireland they are looking for people to take part in a study to find out why they've not caught it https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2022/0401/1289851-immunity-study/


----------



## Siskin

Jobeth said:


> In Ireland they are looking for people to take part in a study to find out why they've not caught it https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2022/0401/1289851-immunity-study/


That should be interesting when the results come through although I should imagine it's going to take quite a while


----------



## Siskin

Oh whoopee doo, it seems there is a new variation of omicron on the loose. It’s actually a combination of the two current variants, BA.1 and BA.2 and has been given the name of XE. It’s very early days, but it appears to be slightly more infectious then BA.2 by about 10%, but it appears that it is not any more harmful and shouldn’t result in more hospitalisations.


----------



## ForestWomble

Siskin said:


> Oh whoopee doo, it seems there is a new variation of omicron on the loose. It's actually a combination of the two current variants, BA.1 and BA.2 and has been given the name of XE. It's very early days, but it appears to be slightly more infectious then BA.2 by about 10%, but it appears that it is not any more harmful and shouldn't result in more hospitalisations.


*sighs* doesn't surprise me, after all with no restrictions any more, asking people to use their common sense and hoping those who can will wear a mask in shops etc, the virus has had a field day - we have more people infected at one time than at any other point through all this, so it gives the virus more opportunity to do what viruses do and mutate and this is the result. 
I just hope for all our sakes that even if it continues to become more infectious, it becomes less dangerous rather than what I fear and become more dangerous/deadly.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Siskin said:


> Oh whoopee doo, it seems there is a new variation of omicron on the loose. It's actually a combination of the two current variants, BA.1 and BA.2 and has been given the name of XE. It's very early days, but it appears to be slightly more infectious then BA.2 by about 10%, but it appears that it is not any more harmful and shouldn't result in more hospitalisations.


As we were classed as venerable this is very worrying, now I'm wondering if we should stay in more or still risk going out, we still wear masks but as we know that's to protect others it doesn't really protect us.

There signs in Sainsbury's where I do going to get a few things and there is a sign asking people to still wear masks but most people now are ignoring it, the only people who seem to wear them are people of my age.


----------



## MollySmith

I went to my first shop today since early March. I’m so bloody anxious about it still and this stupid woman I work for thinks going into a workspace will be ‘fun’. Anyway it is a little cafe/refill store as I needed a card for my dad for his birthday and I needed a cycle ride.

Husband has just gone out for his first drink in the pub that was our local. His first trip there since July 2021. Hopefully on a Sunday it might be quieter. I’m just not prepared to ‘live with it’ in the way that we’re being told but conscious that I’m becoming a hermit. I actually hadn’t been past the end of my road since 14th March...


----------



## ForestWomble

Please think of my 'Like' as a *Hug* @Happy Paws2 and @MollySmith. It's a frightening situation and I feel despair about it. I feel like we (the vulnerable) have been abandoned.

I'm not prepared to 'live with it' either @MollySmith.


----------



## willa

Mum has tested Positive thismorning. She has a heavy cold.
I’ve been around her for past week, so fully expecting to get it. I do feel I have a sinus cold coming on, but tested negative just now


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> We have had a pack each arrive last week.


Same here .

ETA just got back from having 4 th jab done. No problems so far.


----------



## StormyThai

I've had a pack turn up this morning...I'm still pretty much a hermit though...I've avoided it so far so I'm not putting myself at unnecessary risks. I really wish I felt more confident because there are so many dog events that I want to do -sigh-


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Mum has tested Positive thismorning. She has a heavy cold.
> I've been around her for past week, so fully expecting to get it. I do feel I have a sinus cold coming on, but tested negative just now


How old is your mum?
Hope she's ok and that you don't catch it.
Four people next door, wife and kids caught it, husband not.............unless he bought it home and didn't have symptoms


----------



## willa

rona said:


> How old is your mum?
> Hope she's ok and that you don't catch it.
> Four people next door, wife and kids caught it, husband not.............unless he bought it home and didn't have symptoms


She's 65. So far she had cold symptoms.
I've been around her all of the past week, so will be very lucky to have escaped it !
Have a stinker of a headache & cold coming on.


----------



## simplysardonic

My left ear is still blocked, it's infuriating more than anything & I keep getting dizzy spells, presumably because of it, if I do anything too strenuous or get up too quick. Got a doctor's appointment for Friday afternoon.


----------



## simplysardonic

willa said:


> She's 65. So far she had cold symptoms.
> I've been around her all of the past week, so will be very lucky to have escaped it !
> Have a stinker of a headache & cold coming on.


You may not get it, I didn't when 2 of the family tested positive & I'd driven my daughter around when she would have been infectious, but I did get whatever cold (headache too) that came along at the same time, still not convinced it wasn't covid even with the pile of negative LFTs & a PCR from the 2 weeks I was ill.


----------



## willa

So confused. Just did a LFT as feel rubbish, was Positive as anything
Then did another from a different box (FlowFex) & , came out Negative


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Mum has tested Positive thismorning. She has a heavy cold.
> I've been around her for past week, so fully expecting to get it. I do feel I have a sinus cold coming on, but tested negative just now


You might be lucky … fingers crossed you don't catch it.

OH and I were obviously at close quarters every day before I tested positive and he didn't catch it. DS who lives with us escaped it too.


----------



## Lurcherlad

simplysardonic said:


> My left ear is still blocked, it's infuriating more than anything & I keep getting dizzy spells, presumably because of it, if I do anything too strenuous or get up too quick. Got a doctor's appointment for Friday afternoon.


Glad you are seeing the GP … it sounds like it needs meds of some kind.


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> So confused. Just did a LFT as feel rubbish, was Positive as anything
> Then did another from a different box (FlowFex) & , came out Negative


Maybe request a PCR? I believe they are more accurate.


----------



## Happy Paws2

So many people ill at the moment, I'm wondering if I should have stayed in today instead of going out but I needed to get a prescription,


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> So many people ill at the moment, I'm wondering if I should have stayed in today instead of going out but I needed to get a prescription,


Our pharmacy will deliver to certain people … I'm sure you would qualify.

Might be worth enquiring?


----------



## Jobeth

I’ve just registered with an online chemist so I can get mine delivered. I don’t pay as I have a medical exemption and I can order them the same way. I can’t say I’d go to my local pharmacy if I was worried about catching it. It was a lovely warm day and the door was closed. Out of the 6 people waiting only one person was wearing a mask and a child was coughing. None of the staff were wearing masks despite being in an enclosed space.


----------



## willa

Well another Test tonight clearly Positive. 

That was the last box of our free tests finished. Guess now we’ll be buying them online


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Well another Test tonight clearly Positive.
> 
> That was the last box of our free tests finished. Guess now we'll be buying them online


Sorry to hear this 

Hope you don't feel too poorly with it.

I found paracetamol helped with some of the aches and pains, strepsils helped my throat a bit, a cold, wet flannel soothed my head and I drank lots of water.

Get plenty of rest. I slept a lot.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Has anybody who has had covid found that their digestive system has been “iffy” for a while afterwards?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Now we have 9 more things to worry about Covid....

But now the list of symptoms includes a further nine:


shortness of breath
feeling tired or exhausted
aching body
headache
sore throat
blocked or runny nose
loss of appetite
diarrhoea
feeling sick or being sick


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> Our pharmacy will deliver to certain people … I'm sure you would qualify.
> 
> Might be worth enquiring?


Thank you, I might look into that.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> Has anybody who has had covid found that their digestive system has been "iffy" for a while afterwards?


Diarrhoea is now one of the common symptoms of covid (think there's about 9 or something according to the radio… the list grows..).

Aside from diarrhoea, a wide variety of gastrointestinal symptoms have been reported and studied. Covid is a multi-organ disease and the digestive system is incredibly integrated within the body so it is unsurprising a large amount of people experience an upset stomach if positive. The reason is that the virus affects organs expressing a specific enzyme, and parts of the small intestine (and liver) express this enzyme. The symptoms are typically mild but not very pleasant to deal with. If they become concerning it's best to phone 111 or your GP, however.


----------



## Lurcherlad

bmr10 said:


> Diarrhoea is now one of the common symptoms of covid (think there's about 9 or something according to the radio… the list grows..).
> 
> Aside from diarrhoea, a wide variety of gastrointestinal symptoms have been reported and studied. Covid is a multi-organ disease and the digestive system is incredibly integrated within the body so it is unsurprising a large amount of people experience an upset stomach if positive. The reason is that the virus affects organs expressing a specific enzyme, and parts of the small intestine (and liver) express this enzyme. The symptoms are typically mild but not very pleasant to deal with. If they become concerning it's best to phone 111 or your GP, however.


I didn't really have the issue whilst ill, more so since recovery.

I've had IBS in the past …

I suspect it might be more a response to my poor diet whilst feeling poorly …. Sandwiches and toast were about all I could manage …. Hoping things will start to settle now I'm eating a more balanced diet …. I'll keep an eye on it.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> I didn't really have the issue whilst ill, more so since recovery.
> 
> I've had IBS in the past …
> 
> I suspect it might be more a response to my poor diet whilst feeling poorly …. Sandwiches and toast were about all I could manage …. Hoping things will start to settle now I'm eating a more balanced diet …. I'll keep an eye on it.


It could be that as the bacteria in your gut can get a bit upset if you change your diet a substantial amount. There is also the possibility of long covid. Hopefully, once you adjust to your usual diet the symptoms clear up soon!!


----------



## willa

Spent almost entire day sleeping. Would be up for an hour, then go back to sleep for about 3-4 hours. Then repeat throughout the day., 1 hour awake, 3 hours sleeping etc

I’m bit surprised how much it’s taken it out of me. 

Whereas Mum seems to have got over the cold symptoms, & has more energy. She’s now lost her sense of smell


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Spent almost entire day sleeping. Would be up for an hour, then go back to sleep for about 3-4 hours. Then repeat throughout the day., 1 hour awake, 3 hours sleeping etc
> 
> I'm bit surprised how much it's taken it out of me.
> 
> Whereas Mum seems to have got over the cold symptoms, & has more energy. She's now lost her sense of smell


You sound like me … hopefully, you'll feel better in a few days.

I never lost my sense of smell.


----------



## willa

My Sister has tested Positive, along with my sister in law and her 2 year old daughter.
My 6 month niece is coughing & sneezing so they assume she has it.

Just the Men in the family who don’t have any symptoms


----------



## MollySmith

ForestWomble said:


> Please think of my 'Like' as a *Hug* @Happy Paws2 and @MollySmith. It's a frightening situation and I feel despair about it. I feel like we (the vulnerable) have been abandoned.
> 
> I'm not prepared to 'live with it' either @MollySmith.


Thank you belatedly.

I read something on Twitter from someone who was part of Welcome Trust and was saying well done to those who are keeping safe but lots of replies - me included - that said this isn't a life. It's a battle to hold boundaries when others are letting go and I'm sick and tired of isolation and the worry that brings.

There's now a narrative in the company I have a contract for where the staff who kept the building open for two years are saying they're annoyed that others had the option to WFH and 'it's perfectly okay thanks very much' so it's getting a bit them/us as the company try to get people back at desks or push for staff to decide if they are permanently WFH. Luckily I am only there as needed and my contact is flexible but there's still a vibe. I just don't see any reason to go in if I've done the job at my desk at home without getting sick for two years.

And I think that's unreasonable to make staff decide now because it's not soon enough to tell, but also really sobering as they clearly don't think it's going to get any better. Meanwhile the death rates and long Covid health problems seem to be largely unreported and likewise mental health.


----------



## willa

Did anyone else have painful tender skin ? I’ve now also got very upset stomach .


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Did anyone else have painful tender skin ? I've now also got very upset stomach .


Not during, but after.


----------



## Beth78

I was supposed to meet with a friend I haven't seen in years as she's over from Switzerland where she lives. We were going to go to my favourite restaurant but she has covid symptoms so doesn't want to sit indoors, we are just going to go for a cold, windy walk instead  so disappointing.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Beth78 said:


> I was supposed to meet with a friend I haven't seen in years as she's over from Switzerland where she lives. We were going to go to my favourite restaurant but she has covid symptoms so doesn't want to sit indoors, we are just going to go for a cold, windy walk instead  so disappointing.


If she has symptoms, make her wear a mask and keep well away …. that's if you want to risk it?


----------



## Beth78

Lurcherlad said:


> If she has symptoms, make her wear a mask and keep well away …. that's if you want to risk it?


Yeah I think I will just cancel its safer isn't it. I don't want to get covid and have to cancel on the charity shop as I really enjoy it there.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Beth78 said:


> Yeah I think I will just cancel its safer isn't it. I don't want to get covid and have to cancel on the charity shop as I really enjoy it there.


I would as well, tbh.

Just not worth the risk.


----------



## O2.0

Chronic Fatigue is thought to be caused by a viral infection. With all the research being done on long covid, I think it's a good thing for those who have been suffering from CF for so long. In other words, there is some good to come out of this.

Viral infections have always had consequences. You get the flu and end up with Bell's Palsy, get a cold, end up with bronchitis, there's all sorts of complications from common viruses that are fairly common. At this point, with everything we now know about Covid, how to treat it and vaccines and boosters to prevent it, I don't think Covid is any more worrisome than any of the other airborne viruses we're constantly exposed to. 

Of course if you're immunocompromised in any way it makes sense to be cautious, but I don't think it makes sense to live in fear of this virus more than any other airborne viruses.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Chronic Fatigue is thought to be caused by a viral infection. With all the research being done on long covid, I think it's a good thing for those who have been suffering from CF for so long. In other words, there is some good to come out of this.
> 
> Viral infections have always had consequences. You get the flu and end up with Bell's Palsy, get a cold, end up with bronchitis, there's all sorts of complications from common viruses that are fairly common. At this point, with everything we now know about Covid, how to treat it and vaccines and boosters to prevent it, I don't think Covid is any more worrisome than any of the other airborne viruses we're constantly exposed to.
> 
> Of course if you're immunocompromised in any way it makes sense to be cautious, but I don't think it makes sense to live in fear of this virus more than any other airborne viruses.


I'm of the same mind. I was terrified at the start but feel like it can't be avoided now. In my line of work I'm face to face no masks. We have the vaccines and they know better how to treat it. I know vulnerable people who have been put on anti virals as a precaution.

Strangely my friend who is retired and hasn't been out has caught it where as I have been at the coal face of covid and haven't ….yet (probably a Easter holiday treat)

@Beth78 can she not do a LFT so you don't have to cancel ?


----------



## Beth78

Boxer123 said:


> can she not do a LFT so you don't have to cancel ?


She won't do one as she believes they give false positives and positive falses


----------



## Boxer123

Beth78 said:


> She won't do one as she believes they give false positives and positive falses


That's a pain what a shame.


----------



## Arny

Boxer123 said:


> I know vulnerable people who have been put on anti virals as a precaution.


I think many forget this, or don't know?
People are being treated before they ever end up in hospital which has a much better success rate.


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> I'm of the same mind. I was terrified at the start but feel like it can't be avoided now. In my line of work I'm face to face no masks. We have the vaccines and they know better how to treat it. I know vulnerable people who have been put on anti virals as a precaution.
> 
> Strangely my friend who is retired and hasn't been out has caught it where as I have been at the coal face of covid and haven't ….yet (probably a Easter holiday treat)


Same. I'm constantly exposed. 
But I'm of the mind that exposure with a healthy immune system is better than complete isolation. You don't develop any resistance that way. And there is good evidence that covid is like any other virus, and being exposed to it in small doses, when vaccinated is a good way to maintain good immunity.

I know it's different for people who are immunocompromised. We just hit the 2 year anniversary of a dear friend passing from cancer. I was so vigilant with her, and this was right before anyone was really worried about covid. But for the average individual with a normal immune system, hiding away isn't the answer and as mentioned so much, it's extremely damaging to mental health too.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Beth78 said:


> She won't do one as she believes they give false positives and positive falses


Is she aware no scientific test is without error? This is why the majority of scientific experiments or tests in labs require multiple repeats to try and avoid these errors. The food she eats is batch tested for safety but this is also not without error and that is why product recalls are a thing. Is she aware of the statistics behind the specificity and selectivity? That is a very odd mindset to have, in my view... :Bag


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> Same. I'm constantly exposed.
> But I'm of the mind that exposure with a healthy immune system is better than complete isolation. You don't develop any resistance that way. And there is good evidence that covid is like any other virus, and being exposed to it in small doses, when vaccinated is a good way to maintain good immunity.
> 
> I know it's different for people who are immunocompromised. We just hit the 2 year anniversary of a dear friend passing from cancer. I was so vigilant with her, and this was right before anyone was really worried about covid. But for the average individual with a normal immune system, hiding away isn't the answer and as mentioned so much, it's extremely damaging to mental health too.


I'm constantly exposed as well and I'm lucky that (other than the first lockdown and wearing a mask inside) life has been pretty normal. I always check before I see my parents but they were the ones that nearly gave it to me!


----------



## O2.0

Jobeth said:


> I'm constantly exposed as well and I'm lucky that (other than the first lockdown and wearing a mask inside) life has been pretty normal. I always check before I see my parents but they were the ones that nearly gave it to me!


I feel very lucky too that we've carried on with life as normal for the most part here too.

I'm trying really hard not to be resentful, but I am getting tired of filling in for people who choose to take more precautions. 
When this all first started, I didn't mind, and was actually grateful I could help and could be of use if you will. But at this point it's getting old to constantly fill in, do extra work, and lose planning time while other people get to stay home. 
I try to remind myself how fortunate I am to be healthy and able, but I'm also tired. A lot of us are.


----------



## Lurcherlad

bmr10 said:


> Is she aware no scientific test is without error? This is why the majority of scientific experiments or tests in labs require multiple repeats to try and avoid these errors. The food she eats is batch tested for safety but this is also not without error and that is why product recalls are a thing. Is she aware of the statistics behind the specificity and selectivity? That is a very odd mindset to have, in my view... :Bag


Maybe she's avoiding confirmation of having the virus so she can continue running around and visiting people while she's over from abroad and not muck up her plans when going home?

At least she told you @Beth78 so you could decide for yourself.

I'm living my life as normal as possible, but I wouldn't want to knowingly share air with someone who has (or thinks they have) covid.

Each to their own, of course.


----------



## Beth78

I feel lucky to be where I am now, staying active, getting out and about and generally enjoying life for the 1st time in god knows how long. I'm just scared if I get ill all this will change and I'll be pushed back down again.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe she's avoiding confirmation of having the virus so she can continue running around and visiting people while she's over from abroad and not muck up her plans when going home?


If it's to avoid being unable to travel home that's one thing but results of lateral flows can be kept anonymous, you do not have to report them to the government. If I felt poorly but didn't think it was covid/didn't think covid was something to be concerned about, I would still do a lateral flow if a friend was concerned, just for their benefit. Obviously, this depends on said friend telling me their concerns.


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> I feel very lucky too that we've carried on with life as normal for the most part here too.
> 
> I'm trying really hard not to be resentful, but I am getting tired of filling in for people who choose to take more precautions.
> When this all first started, I didn't mind, and was actually grateful I could help and could be of use if you will. But at this point it's getting old to constantly fill in, do extra work, and lose planning time while other people get to stay home.
> I try to remind myself how fortunate I am to be healthy and able, but I'm also tired. A lot of us are.


Teachers haven't had that choice here for ages. Even if they are clinically vulnerable they are still expected to teach with no mask and no social distancing.

As an outside agency I had the option during lockdown of working from home but chose to go in. I know that I have a slightly different outlook as I chose to teach where I was exposed to miles more dangerous illnesses with limited medical resources. For me it's just about being as careful as possible but carrying on.

I still wouldn't spend time with someone if I knew they had it. I also make sure I take a test before I work with any child that I know is clinically vulnerable even when I'm not showing any symptoms. For that reason I still wear a mask as I'm allowed to as a visitor.


----------



## willa

I know I’m moaning but I still feel rubbish. Thanks to this hacking cough, every time I cough my chest & ribs really hurt.


----------



## O2.0

Jobeth said:


> Teachers haven't had that choice here for ages. Even if they are clinically vulnerable they are still expected to teach with no mask and no social distancing.
> 
> As an outside agency I had the option during lockdown of working from home but chose to go in. I know that I have a slightly different outlook as I chose to teach where I was exposed to miles more dangerous illnesses with limited medical resources. For me it's just about being as careful as possible but carrying on.
> 
> I still wouldn't spend time with someone if I knew they had it. I also make sure I take a test before I work with any child that I know is clinically vulnerable even when I'm not showing any symptoms. For that reason I still wear a mask as I'm allowed to as a visitor.


We've really tried to accommodate people who are vulnerable or feel worried, which made sense earlier in the pandemic, but at this point I feel like it's okay to ask people to take precautions but it's time to show up again.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Jobeth said:


> Even if they are clinically vulnerable they are still expected to teach with no mask and no social distancing.


You are not even permitted to use the masks with the clear window for lip-reading??? I know there is the whole argument of children being unable to connect with teachers wearing masks but I don't personally buy it when it comes to primary school or secondary school-aged children.

The mask laws are planned to be removed later in April (for Scotland) and I am wondering if I will have to continue wearing one at my work?? Not to get on my soapbox (though I do love getting on my soapbox ) but I'm going to be annoyed if I, a pharmacy employee working with potentially vulnerable people, have to wear one but my customers/patients do not, despite entering a pharmacy containing potentially vulnerable people.

Also, I am clinically vulnerable myself and I'm worried that my colleagues will forgo mask-wearing if permitted. Our dispensary is very, very small so there is no physical room for social distancing. The aim of the masks is to protect others, so even though I'll continue wearing one, if my colleagues don't it doesn't really protect me at all.


----------



## Siskin

I was in the hospital today for a check up on the broken leg and I noticed there were several people either not wearing masks at all or under their noses or chins. This is the first time I’ve noticed this as the Gloucester hospital has been pretty hot on mask wearing.
Anyway there is an upside for me, don’t have to go back for another 3 months.


----------



## O2.0

Depending on which experts you listen to, masks don't really do anything anyway. I think they help psychologically more than anything. 
I will happily wear a mask if it makes those around me feel better, but I have no confidence that it's doing anything to protect me or them from anything.


----------



## rona

O2.0 said:


> Depending on which experts you listen to, masks don't really do anything anyway. I think they help psychologically more than anything.
> I will happily wear a mask if it makes those around me feel better, but I have no confidence that it's doing anything to protect me or them from anything.


One wonders then, why hospital theater staff have always worn masks!!


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> One wonders then, why hospital theater staff have always worn masks!!


To keep sweat and drool out of wounds - yes really. We accidentally spit all the time. It helps keep open wounds more sanitary.

Masks are great, don't get me wrong. Around here people were wearing masks before it was cool during pollen season doing yardwork, raking leaves. I wore a mask installing insulation, knocking down walls, helps keep the dust and debris out of your airway. But viruses are tiny they go right through the mask.

And like I said, I know they make people feel better and I don't mind wearing a mask if I'm asked, I just don't believe they help.


----------



## StormyThai

O2.0 said:


> Depending on which experts you listen to, masks don't really do anything anyway. I think they help psychologically more than anything.
> I will happily wear a mask if it makes those around me feel better, but I have no confidence that it's doing anything to protect me or them from anything.


I've not had a single cold and neither has my partner since we started wearing masks. Even when the really nasty cold that everyone I knew caught.
Before I wore a mask I used to get colds all the time especially if my partner had a snotty kid in the back of the taxi on the school run.

I'll keep wearing my mask


----------



## HarlequinCat

StormyThai said:


> I've not had a single cold and neither has my partner since we started wearing masks. Even when the really nasty cold that everyone I knew caught.
> Before I wore a mask I used to get colds all the time especially if my partner had a snotty kid in the back of the taxi on the school run.
> 
> I'll keep wearing my mask


Maybe you've been lucky, maybe it just coincidence or as well as mask wearing you keep more distance than you used to. My sister wears a mask all the time out and about but she caught covid the other week.

Same with my husbands sister, she hand sanitised all the time and wore masks but caught it in December.


----------



## StormyThai

HarlequinCat said:


> Maybe you've been lucky


Maybe.
I also make sure that I have a filter in my mask (so not just a fabric covering) and I wear it any time I am inside with people I don't know (my friends have been very considerate and warned me if they have a cold so I will wear a mask around them too), but yes I do keep my distance from people that I have no need to interact with.
None of my clients have had an issue with me still wearing a mask, and my friends understand why I need to be cautious whilst still trying to have a life...so I'll keep wearing it and hope that it continues to do it's job 

It's not 100% (nothing in life is) but it does offer protection.


----------



## Jobeth

bmr10 said:


> You are not even permitted to use the masks with the clear window for lip-reading??? I know there is the whole argument of children being unable to connect with teachers wearing masks but I don't personally buy it when it comes to primary school or secondary school-aged children.


Those masks muffle your voice/mist over so aren't very useful. I have one that is like a gauze for when I would with children that have a hearing impairment. Primary school teachers have never worn masks in the classroom.


----------



## O2.0

StormyThai said:


> None of my clients have had an issue with me still wearing a mask,


I don't have an issue with anyone wearing a mask, like I said around here, this time of year, a lot of people were wearing masks way before it was cool. One of my FB memories from 2018 popped up recently of me and a friend who has severe allergies, we were out hiking, her in a mask. They definitely work to keep pollen and other airborne irritants out of your airways.

I personally don't think they work for keeping viruses out, but obviously a lot of people do. Honestly I just don't care enough either way to argue about it. If you (general you) want me to wear a mask, I will, no problem, no judgement. But it makes me sad that so many people are still so frightened at the thought of being around people not wearing a mask. That does make me sad.

And don't even get me started on the trash problem with masks. Especially now that they're saying cloth masks are no use and you need a surgical or N95 mask which aren't reusable or recyclable


----------



## Mrs Funkin

We are currently making plans for an American friend to come over in the Summer with her daughter who we have never met. I am so so so hoping that she can come. I know the rules in the States for travel are different than here - but we had to postpone previously, so I have all my fingers crossed that they can come. 

I hope all those who are feeling poorly with the Dreaded Lurgy are feeling better very soon.


----------



## O2.0

Mrs Funkin said:


> We are currently making plans for an American friend to come over in the Summer with her daughter who we have never met. I am so so so hoping that she can come. I know the rules in the States for travel are different than here - but we had to postpone previously, so I have all my fingers crossed that they can come.
> 
> I hope all those who are feeling poorly with the Dreaded Lurgy are feeling better very soon.


A friend of mine's daughter is currently in the UK, she had to have a negative covid test before flying. 
Son is flying cross country today, no rules other than to wear a mask on the plane. He did however have to submit proof of vaccination to compete at the tournament he's flying to.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Jobeth said:


> Those masks muffle your voice/mist over so aren't very useful. I have one that is like a gauze for when I would with children that have a hearing impairment. Primary school teachers have never worn masks in the classroom.


I have not worn them but I can imagine they would fog over. I am surprised about the teachers not wearing masks. In Scotland they have had to but I understand the laws within the home nations have been different.


----------



## MollySmith

My husband's best friend (he has a weak heart) is now down with it. Husband saw him on Wednesday so I'm keeping a close (not too close) eye on him as well.

My mum has all the symptoms but hasn't got any LFTs never used one and is currently saying 'I had my booster so I'm alright, it can't be Covid...'. Both her and my dad are vulnerable.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Oh @MollySmith  That's pants. Would your mum do an LFT if you took one for her, or does she just not want to know, maybe? Head-in-the-sand-itis? Hope it's not - and hope your husband's pal is okay too. (Not so) close eye on husband is a good idea.


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> My husband's best friend (he has a weak heart) is now down with it. Husband saw him on Wednesday so I'm keeping a close (not too close) eye on him as well.
> 
> My mum has all the symptoms but hasn't got any LFTs never used one and is currently saying 'I had my booster so I'm alright, it can't be Covid...'. Both her and my dad are vulnerable.


Hope his best friend isn't too poorly, and you all escape it.


----------



## MollySmith

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh @MollySmith  That's pants. Would your mum do an LFT if you took one for her, or does she just not want to know, maybe? Head-in-the-sand-itis? Hope it's not - and hope your husband's pal is okay too. (Not so) close eye on husband is a good idea.


My dad has just said that if I ordered one for them, they'd take it as both my brother and I have said they should. So I'm on Boots now.

Thank you, it's a bit head in the sand-itis, they are doing enough but not as much I would but each to their own. She doesn't sound as rough as my husband's friend.

Husband okay, he'll do another test tomorrow and so will I as I'm meant to be going out...OMG... to a tearoom with outdoor seating. Be sods law if I'm positive!


----------



## MollySmith

Lurcherlad said:


> Hope his best friend isn't too poorly, and you all escape it.


Thank you lovely, how are you feeling?


----------



## Lurcherlad

MollySmith said:


> Thank you lovely, how are you feeling?


Practically back to normal (well, as I ever was ), thanks


----------



## willa

Lurcherlad said:


> Practically back to normal (well, as I ever was ), thanks


What Day are you on ?


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> What Day are you on ?


Tested positive 19th March, negative on 28th March.

It's taken until end of this week to really feel back to normal regarding energy levels.

Still have the annoying cough now and then though.


----------



## willa

Day 8. Having waves of awful nausea & feeling very spaced out. Not light headed just spaced out, like I’m not all there. Hard to describe.
Just done a test & very much Positive, the line came up in seconds


----------



## Happy Paws2

A good idea, there are still people nervous about going in these places.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61061976


----------



## mrs phas

Youngest has it 
Went to gf last Saturday, had family gathering for her gran on the Sunday, got sent home from work Monday, tested positive, with the faintest of red T line, Tuesday, Friday he was like a little kid again, wanting cuddles from mum, crying cos he had a temp and didn't feel well etc (he's 26) today was first negative test (he did one Thursday and Sunday) but they've sent him home til he gets another negative(two of the ladies he works with are immuno compromised)
As I did all the running around, to and from Cambridge, to and from work etc I took a test and despite feeling like I was at death's door from Friday afternoon, and, sleeping most of the weekend away, I've tested negative everyday, including today
All of us have had all three jabs, not been called for fourth


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Day 8. Having waves of awful nausea & feeling very spaced out. Not light headed just spaced out, like I'm not all there. Hard to describe.
> Just done a test & very much Positive, the line came up in seconds


Hope you feel better soon … sounds horrid.


----------



## MollySmith

Mum has tested negative and does sound better though still coughing, I think they've had a bit of a scare. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

My husband's friend is sadly very ill. We're a bit worried. He has had 4th booster.

@willa (hugs) I hope you get better soon.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Sending positive thoughts @MollySmith for your husband's pal.


----------



## willa

Day 10 & still very much Positive. This sure does stick around . 

thankfully symptoms most have gone, just got the nausea & legs ache


----------



## Pawscrossed

Day 5 here. Awful. Barely sleeping as I'm coughing. It feels like I'm going around in circles as I know the sleep will help me get better. Screw learning to live with it.


----------



## rona

willa said:


> Day 10 & still very much Positive. This sure does stick around .
> 
> thankfully symptoms most have gone, just got the nausea & legs ache


11 days is the longest I've heard


----------



## willa

rona said:


> 11 days is the longest I've heard


Well I've taken that crown … just done a test as want to see a friend who's going through Chemo, & still a very clear red T line

Mum and my Sister tested Negative on Days 7 & 8


----------



## Beth78

Woke up with a sore throat, stuffy nose and achy bones. Tested positive as well as my parents and sister who have had it afew days. So Easter gatherings will have to wait a week or so unfortunately


----------



## Happy Paws2

Beth78 said:


> Woke up with a sore throat, stuffy nose and achy bones. Tested positive as well as my parents and sister who have had it afew days. So Easter gatherings will have to wait a week or so unfortunately


Oh dear, hope you all feel better soon.


----------



## Beth78

Happy Paws2 said:


> Oh dear, hope you all feel better soon.


Thank you.


----------



## kimthecat

Beth78 said:


> Woke up with a sore throat, stuffy nose and achy bones. Tested positive as well as my parents and sister who have had it afew days. So Easter gatherings will have to wait a week or so unfortunately



Oh that's a shame. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> 11 days is the longest I've heard


That's probably because it's 10 days isolation regardless. My son tested positive day 11 too but felt better about day 5.

He took a test out of interest.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Beth78 said:


> Woke up with a sore throat, stuffy nose and achy bones. Tested positive as well as my parents and sister who have had it afew days. So Easter gatherings will have to wait a week or so unfortunately


Hope you don't feel too poorly for long.


----------



## Beth78

Lurcherlad said:


> Hope you don't feel too poorly for long.


Thanks, the chocolate is helping.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Phew! I was about to say @Beth78 I hope you can still taste your Easter egg! I hope you don't feel too poorly with it  GWS xx


----------



## mrs phas

To all who wished my youngest, Matt and I well (no-one)
You'll prob continue not to care that, thankfully Matt and I continued to test negative (thank goodness) and Ross has recovered all but his sense of smell and still has brainfog, but is back at work

(Sorry I know this is a petty pity post, but it might have been nice if just one person had sent positive wishes or vibes, or at least asked how we were, I can truly say I belong to no cliques I guess)


----------



## Jobeth

mrs phas said:


> To all who wished my youngest, Matt and I well (no-one)
> You'll prob continue not to care that, thankfully Matt and I continued to test negative (thank goodness) and Ross has recovered all but his sense of smell and still has brainfog, but is back at work
> 
> (Sorry I know this is a petty pity post, but it might have been nice if just one person had sent positive wishes or vibes, or at least asked how we were, I can truly say I belong to no cliques I guess)


I'm glad that you are all feeling better now and sorry that it was missed.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I missed it too, so sorry. 
I'm glad you're recovering now and hope you continue to do so. The worst thing of all for me was the brain fog, it's not completely clear now.


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> To all who wished my youngest, Matt and I well (no-one)
> You'll prob continue not to care that, thankfully Matt and I continued to test negative (thank goodness) and Ross has recovered all but his sense of smell and still has brainfog, but is back at work
> 
> (Sorry I know this is a petty pity post, but it might have been nice if just one person had sent positive wishes or vibes, or at least asked how we were, I can truly say I belong to no cliques I guess)


Sorry i missed this ,  Glad you feeling better.


----------



## MollySmith

mrs phas said:


> To all who wished my youngest, Matt and I well (no-one)
> You'll prob continue not to care that, thankfully Matt and I continued to test negative (thank goodness) and Ross has recovered all but his sense of smell and still has brainfog, but is back at work
> 
> (Sorry I know this is a petty pity post, but it might have been nice if just one person had sent positive wishes or vibes, or at least asked how we were, I can truly say I belong to no cliques I guess)


I am sorry to miss this and pleased to hear you're getting better. And Matt too. I hope Ross is not over doing it.

And I am appreciate the point you've made, I've made good use of the ignore button lately in a few people - definitely not you!


----------



## Pawscrossed

Absolutely nobody wished me well either. Still brain foggy. My taste buds took flight and absolutely knackered even though testing negative for several days. Started to ache yesterday afternoon which is new.


----------



## Jobeth

Pawscrossed said:


> Absolutely nobody wished me well either. Still brain foggy. My taste buds took flight and absolutely knackered even though testing negative for several days. Started to ache yesterday afternoon which is new.


Hope you recover soon.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Sorry your posts were missed @mrs phas and @Pawscrossed

Certainly not intentional on my part (or anyone's I'm sure).

Posts do get lost in a thread.

I hope you are all feeling much better now.

It took a while for my energy levels to recover though, so take it easy x


----------



## Pawscrossed

mrs phas said:


> To all who wished my youngest, Matt and I well (no-one)
> You'll prob continue not to care that, thankfully Matt and I continued to test negative (thank goodness) and Ross has recovered all but his sense of smell and still has brainfog, but is back at work
> 
> (Sorry I know this is a petty pity post, but it might have been nice if just one person had sent positive wishes or vibes, or at least asked how we were, I can truly say I belong to no cliques I guess)


I hope and yours make a speedy and safe recovery, my apologies for missing this.


----------



## mrs phas

Pawscrossed said:


> Absolutely nobody wished me well either. Still brain foggy. My taste buds took flight and absolutely knackered even though testing negative for several days. Started to ache yesterday afternoon which is new.


Which includes me, (((hugs)))
so we'll have a two family pity party 
Thank you to all 
Bet you can guess I was feeling sorry for myself yesterday
I love the fact that I have this space to let it all out 
And 
I truly love all of you (friendly love hugs) even those whom are either on my ignore list, or I theirs 
Normal service has been resumed ,after a 12 HR sleep marathon, without even a pee break

:Kiss:Kiss:Kiss:Kiss


----------



## SusieRainbow

To be honest I think that a lot of us are 'learning to live with it'and it's becoming more commonplace now. But I realise it doesn't excuse me from failing to sympathise and send good wishes, so @Pawscrossed and @mrs phas, I send them now. 
As I said yesterday, the brain fog has not completely cleared.:Grumpy


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I know I always post about Covid and pregnancy but please if you have any pregnant women in your lives who are thinking about a Covid jab, please show them this latest information. The info in the first study is from UKOSS (UK data).










I know it's a tough decision to make but it appears with every piece of research that is published that the risks become ever more obvious to pregnant women who develop Covid.


----------



## Beth78

Well today I feel absolutely fine, back to normal. But I'm still testing very positive so I can't go out anywhere (apart from walkies) and I can't volunteer which is annoying.
So I'm going to do a good tidy and clean of the house and do some colouring and laundry to keep the boredom at bay.


----------



## Beth78

I'm getting alot done with this positive marker hanging above my head. 

I've cleaned the house, car, fish tank, chicken run and free range area. 
Done the laundry and ironed it, arranged and tidied my bedroom drawers and put some old clothing and shoes in the bank. 
Re painted whisps bowl stand as the laminate was peeling.
Going to have some lunch then hoover the car and give the chicken coop a good scrub inside and out.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Blimey @Beth78 I reckon if Covid makes you this productive, I'd be tempted to have it 

Go gently though, you don't want to wipe yourself out!


----------



## rona

Yesterday, OH went on a survival first aid course for his work. Even though it was outside, he had to get up close and personal with several people.
That's something neither of us have done since my friend died in the first year of Covid and since I've been on the drugs that make me vulnerable .
We will be living virtually apart for the next few days. Luckily he is working for the next three.
Hopefully after that, he still has a negative Covid test. Fingers crossed


----------



## ForestWomble




----------



## £54etgfb6

Mask wearing laws ended on the 18th here and on the same day, my partner and I visited our local market and cheese shop and everyone was wearing masks. It made me feel quite hopeful that people would continue wearing them as a precautionary measure. 

Skip to today and my partner visited ASDA. He said only about 1/10 people were wearing masks :Yuck What a difference 5 days makes…


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> Mask wearing laws ended on the 18th here and on the same day, my partner and I visited our local market and cheese shop and everyone was wearing masks. It made me feel quite hopeful that people would continue wearing them as a precautionary measure.
> 
> Skip to today and my partner visited ASDA. He said only about 1/10 people were wearing masks :Yuck What a difference 5 days makes…


I find in our local supermarket that people in their 50's and over who are still wearing them, it's the younger people who aren't.


----------



## £54etgfb6

Happy Paws2 said:


> I find in our local supermarket that people in their 50's and over who are still wearing them, it's the younger people who aren't.


I'm just hoping I don't have to go out anytime soon. A lot of folk are claiming that, for most people, it's no longer something to worry about but they seem to forget that many immunosuppressed, clinically vulnerable people have jobs, are in education, and have a life that exists outside the 4 walls of their house. I can't work from home and I cannot rely on my partner to do all of the errands for me because he is also clinically vulnerable /:

It's been said on the thread before but it really bugs me that people refuse to wear a mask for the sake of others who are clinically vulnerable but _have_ to leave the house /:

I think people who are clinically vulnerable or who have faced health scares previously, which the incidence rate of -generally-increases with age, are more considerate around the restrictions. Without stereotyping, I think a fair portion of young people haven't faced seriously ill health and therefore cannot fully understand the consequences that covid can have on someone. Health isn't something they have to face daily, so I think for a lot of young people it's genuinely not on their mind. (Not making excuses though!).

(also, from my experience in the pharmacy it's not a specific age range that don't wear masks… but most of my rude customers don't!!!  perhaps there's a correlation).


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I live in a place where the population is older and in the shops today almost nobody was wearing a mask. Not young, nor old. I would estimate that I saw five others in masks today. I will continue to wear my mask as I don't want to pass anything on. I'm so used to having it on for 12 hours at work, that an hour whilst shopping is really no difficulty. 

I hope everyone who has the Dreaded Lurgy is feeling okay.


----------



## O2.0

bmr10 said:


> A lot of folk are claiming that, for most people, it's no longer something to worry about but they seem to forget that many immunosuppressed, clinically vulnerable people have jobs, are in education, and have a life that exists outside the 4 walls of their house.


The covid pill - Paxlovid is being touted as a "highly successful" covid treatment. My understanding is that WHO is recommending it be available to anyone immunocompromised or otherwise as higher risk of hospitalization have it readily available. 
Is it available in the UK? 
I think it is now in the US - not 100% sure on that, but it must be available somewhere given that they've done so many studies on it!

Maybe having that on hand can help vulnerable people feel less vulnerable?


----------



## £54etgfb6

O2.0 said:


> Maybe having that on hand can help vulnerable people feel less vulnerable?


Do you mean "on-hand" as in an available treatment or "on-hand" as in on the patient's possession at all times? Not really the best at inferring the meaning behind posts, sorry. If it's the latter it's available on prescription only so definitely couldn't have it on your possession for reassurance like you would with painkillers. If you test positive and you know you are eligible for the treatment, you ring up your local health board and they assess whether it is clinically suitable. They then arrange delivery of the treatment to you (in the case of oral treatment) or delivery of you to the treatment (in the case of IV).

There is a handful of treatments licensed in the UK currently- including paxlovid (*Not* sure if the availability differs between the home nations as the Scottish NHS webpages are useless for providing information). It is very reassuring for many people, I know my partner's family breathed a sigh of relief at the knowledge that my partner and I would have a treatment designed for covid available if we did ever test positive. It does reassure me but, I would personally rather people just wear a mask in places like supermarkets and pharmacies- areas where you are either in crowded spaces or in an environment which will have a proportionally high amount of clinically vulnerable people. It is just a shock for so few people to be wearing masks so soon as Scotland has had the strictest restrictions out of the entire UK for the past 2 years and they have, generally, been followed well.

I get that people want to live their lives but I cannot escape the worry of covid. I have had 3 jabs and rarely leave the house. Statistically, I would probably not die if I tested positive, especially with the treatments now available as you mention. However, we don't know if the long-term effects observed are permanent yet or not. I hear some right horror stories in the pharmacy about people struggling to do their job or follow a shopping list due to the cognitive effects. I really would not like that to happen to me, at 24. I don't want more health issues on my plate at all. It can be hard to escape this worry, especially when restrictions are dropped and you have to face the music so to say.

There is also the worry that as these treatments are new, their effect on pregnancy and breastfeeding is not studied and thus, clinically vulnerable people eligible for these treatments but either pregnant or breastfeeding have to face a potentially tough decision.


----------



## O2.0

I meant on hand, as in have at home with instructions on how to take if you test positive. 
I think that's WHO's recommendation. Of course this is another pfizer drug. So there's also that...

I do get the worry I guess I'm just more pragmatic about it. We've been dealing with completely life changing effects of something completely non covid related though if I overthink it too much it could be vaccine related. 
None of us are guaranteed our health, covid isn't the only thing that can get you. And it's not like we're in March of 2020 when we didn't know how to treat it, didn't know how to prevent it (no vaccine) and everything was so scary. We have such a better handle on the disease now, I do think that's something to be grateful for.


----------



## £54etgfb6

O2.0 said:


> I meant on hand, as in have at home with instructions on how to take if you test positive.
> I think that's WHO's recommendation. Of course this is another pfizer drug. So there's also that...


I haven't read the WHO recommendation so I'm not sure. I just know that in the UK if you test positive you ring the local health board and they will assess the suitability of the various treatments for you. I also know that there have been delays in actually getting treatments to patients so that's a glaring issue. This scheme obviously only applies to clinically vulnerable patients, anyone not deemed clinically vulnerable is not eligible.

I am very grateful for the progress we've made. However, when you say "none of us are guaranteed our health" I agree with this but I think a lot of chronically ill people are quite desperate to cling onto the remaining health they have. Everyone will get sick at some point in their life and a lot of people expect their health to decline eventually, usually when they are older. Being diagnosed as a child and spending my teenage years in hospital more than school has made me hyper aware of how limiting poor health can be. I got a chance at having a "normal" life back when I got my ileostomy at 20 and I am very, very anxious at the thought of anything taking this life away from me again. Although I would probably be fine if I got covid, it's hard to escape the worry when you've spent a large portion of your life unable to leave the house/make friends/have normal childhood experiences due to ill health if that makes sense.


----------



## Beth78

Well it's been 8 days now and I'm still testing positive. I haven't had symptoms for days now.
The charity shop want a negative for me to get back to volunteering.


----------



## kimthecat

Sorry to hear this @Beth78 It must be very frustrating for you.


----------



## Beth78

kimthecat said:


> Sorry to hear this @Beth78 It must be very frustrating for you.


It is annoying yeah. Hopefully by Wednesday I will test negative to work on Thursday.


----------



## willa

Does anyone know how long you are immune from Covid after having the disease ?
I had Covid just over 4 weeks ago, I assume I have lots of antibodies & immunity for now ?


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> Does anyone know how long you are immune from Covid after having the disease ?
> I had Covid just over 4 weeks ago, I assume I have lots of antibodies & immunity for now ?


Yes you will have lots of antibodies now, I'm not sure how long it will last, I don't think anyone really knows yet. I should imagine it may well wane by wintertime just in time for another round of Covid


----------



## willa

Siskin said:


> Yes you will have lots of antibodies now, I'm not sure how long it will last, I don't think anyone really knows yet. I should imagine it may well wane by wintertime just in time for another round of Covid


Thanks. Just as I went to a Christening at the weekend., & a few people who were there have now tested Positive for Covid


----------



## Siskin

willa said:


> Thanks. Just as I went to a Christening at the weekend., & a few people who were there have now tested Positive for Covid


As the only version of Covid is omicron currently (which has a few offshoots but is basically still omicron but more transmissible) then you will be protected from reinfection. There has been some cases of reinfection, but these appear to be those that only had Covid very mildly. If you had a Covid infection prior to the omicron variety, the you could easily get Covid again as previous infections from other strains don't protect you from omicron.
As you had Covid so recently it is highly likely it was omicron.


----------



## Deguslave

My elderly neighbours have both tested positive in the last couple of days. Both are in their eighties and already not in great health. They are triple jabbed.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Deguslave said:


> My elderly neighbours have both tested positive in the last couple of days. Both are in their eighties and already not in great health. They are triple jabbed.


Hope they'll be alright.


----------



## Deguslave

Me too @Happy Paws2, they're a lovely couple who've been together over 60 years. I know they are a close knit family and another neighbour who was a care worker has been looking after them. I've offered to help, but I'm virtually housebound so there's not a lot I can do.


----------



## rona

Deguslave said:


> Me too @Happy Paws2, they're a lovely couple who've been together over 60 years. I know they are a close knit family and another neighbour who was a care worker has been looking after them. I've offered to help, but I'm virtually housebound so there's not a lot I can do.


There seems no rhyme nor reason to who gets hit hard. Lets hope they both sail through with just a snuffle and a few aches


----------



## Happy Paws2

I still wish more people would still wear face masks in supermarkets.


----------



## rona

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still wish more people would still wear face masks in supermarkets.


OH saw a paramedic go into a busy shop with no mask.............we've no hope


----------



## Happy Paws2

rona said:


> OH saw a paramedic go into a busy shop with no mask.............we've no hope


And you'd think they would be the ones setting an example


----------



## Deguslave

I'm still double masking when I'm out and about, which isn't often, but I'm seeing less and less people wearing them.

Apparently, with my neighbours, its hit the husband more severely - he's a diabetic, but its made his wife deaf - she has high blood pressure. I've noticed washing on the line this morning so hopefully its just like a heavy head cold.

I should add, I've never seen either of them wearing a mask.


----------



## David C

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still wish more people would still wear face masks in supermarkets.


I've just been in asda, masked as always I wear ffp2 masks, n9 9ne else masked, I'm in an electric wheelchair a woman wouldn't wait for me to move and starts checking over me so ran over her foot, she screamed I said oops . She won't do that again, give me space


----------



## Happy Paws2

David C said:


> I've just been in asda, masked as always I wear ffp2 masks, n9 9ne else masked, I'm in an electric wheelchair a woman wouldn't wait for me to move and starts checking over me* so ran over her foot, * she screamed I said oops . She won't do that again, give me space


There are times I'd love to to that with my scooter, but I've just running into there trolly wakes them up.


----------



## HarlequinCat

David C said:


> I've just been in asda, masked as always I wear ffp2 masks, n9 9ne else masked, I'm in an electric wheelchair a woman wouldn't wait for me to move and starts checking over me so ran over her foot, she screamed I said oops . She won't do that again, give me space


That's a little unnecessary, ask her to move back and if she had any decency she would. I would not deliberately hurt someone because they were invading my space.
A lot of people now may be a little oblivious because a lot are back to normal. Doesn't make them selfish or bad people. If you feel vulnerable because they are too close tell them so.


----------



## rona

Would have been too late with the woman that followed me into the Bakers the other day and coughed all over me 

The bakers are very good and still do ask that only two people go in at a time, but of course she was so entitled that she didn't need to take any notice of that either


----------



## Happy Paws2

HarlequinCat said:


> That's a little unnecessary, ask her to move back and if she had any decency she would. I would not deliberately hurt someone because they were invading my space.
> A lot of people now may be a little oblivious because a lot are back to normal. Doesn't make them selfish or bad people. If you feel vulnerable because they are too close tell them so.


You'd be surprised how rude some people are to wheelchair and scooter users, they look at you as if you have no right to be there or when you ask them nicely to move they ignore you. I've come very close myself but so far I've rammed their trolly out of the way a few feet when they have been leaning it, that wakes them up.

Fortunately most people aren't like that they are very kind and helpful.


----------



## £54etgfb6

.


----------



## HarlequinCat

bmr10 said:


> Idk I wouldn't consider it acceptable in normal times to lean over a wheelchair/scooter user to see what's on the shelf, gives off the impression they're in your way and you can't give them the decency to say "excuse me". I'd find it very selfish. Saying that, I wouldn't run over them, probably would've just let them know my thoughts in a less-than-nice manner.


That last bit I was speaking generally. Before that I said I wouldn't hurt someone who was invading my space, making me uncomfortable.
And also generally no matter how rude a person is it doesn't mean its OK to do something like that. No matter how much you may want to that's all


----------



## Happy Paws2

bmr10 said:


> Idk I wouldn't consider it acceptable in normal times to lean over a wheelchair/scooter user to see what's on the shelf, gives off the impression they're in your way and you can't give them the decency to say "excuse me". I'd find it very selfish. Saying that, I wouldn't run over them, probably would've just let them know my thoughts in a less-than-nice manner.


I spend most of my time in the supermarket saying sorry am I in your way, or I'll move out of your way, mainly people are very nice say it's OK can I help you, I always move out of their way if I can. There's the odd one who can but rather nasty.

It might be just me but I think been able to use my scooter inside a shop a privilege not a right, I try to respect other people as I expect them to treat me.


----------



## David C

It's not just a one off though, it happens constantly I've even had someone try and climb 9ver ny chair in a crowded place to get past where I've not been able to just move out of grey way and people look at you like your crap. I use a chair because I cannot walk, legs don't work. Some people are polite but you'd be surprised at the amount of people who just don't give a hoot.


----------



## Happy Paws2

David C said:


> It's not just a one off though, it happens constantly I've even had someone try and climb 9ver ny chair in a crowded place to get past where I've not been able to just move out of grey way and people look at you like your crap. I use a chair because I cannot walk, legs don't work. Some people are polite but you'd be surprised at the amount of people who just don't give a hoot.


My legs don't work very well either that's why I have a scooter better all round protection and I wouldn't feel safe in wheelchair I'd be frighten of it tipping over and I'd feel vulnerable.


----------



## David C

Happy Paws2 said:


> My legs don't work very well either that's why I have a scooter better all round protection and I wouldn't feel safe in wheelchair I'd be frighten of it tipping over and I'd feel vulnerable.


You wouldn't tip over in a power chair. They are fitted with anti tip bars at the back and a kerb climber at the front. I couldn't get on to a scooter, wouldn't be able to transfer into one. I use my power chair when im going out and manual around the house.


----------



## Happy Paws2

David C said:


> You wouldn't tip over in a power chair. They are fitted with anti tip bars at the back and a kerb climber at the front. I couldn't get on to a scooter, wouldn't be able to transfer into one. I use my power chair when im going out and manual around the house.


It's just that I'd feel so open at the front, having the handle bar at the front and a set of wheels I just feel safe. I can manage with a 4 wheeled walker in the house.


----------



## ForestWomble

David C said:


> I've just been in asda, masked as always I wear ffp2 masks, n9 9ne else masked, I'm in an electric wheelchair a woman wouldn't wait for me to move and starts checking over me so ran over her foot, she screamed I said oops . She won't do that again, give me space


While that was very rude of the women, running over her foot wasn't really a good idea either.

I too am a wheelchair user and while I would hate to be leaned over like that, I'd never purposefully run over someones foot. 
Wheelchair users are already not always treated like normal humans by some people, but behaviour like that isn't going to make people treat us any better.

I don't know the answer right now though.


----------



## David C

ForestWomble said:


> While that was very rude of the women, running over her foot wasn't really a good idea either.
> 
> I too am a wheelchair user and while I would hate to be leaned over like that, I'd never purposefully run over someones foot.
> Wheelchair users are already not always treated like normal humans by some people, but behaviour like that isn't going to make people treat us any better.
> 
> I don't know the answer right now though.


I was peeved big time, I've had this my entire life and people are ignorant pigs at times.


----------



## ForestWomble

David C said:


> I was peeved big time, I've had this my entire life and people are ignorant pigs at times.


I get that, I really do. If I listed all the ways I've been treated badly my whole life due to disability (physical and developmental) I'd still be here come Christmas! 
It's just, changing the reaction to the rude people in a positive way, will hopefully make them think and consider their actions next time, rather than make them angry.


----------



## Happy Paws2

ForestWomble said:


> I get that, I really do. If I listed all the ways I've been treated badly my whole life due to disability (physical and developmental) I'd still be here come Christmas!
> It's just, changing the reaction to the rude people in a positive way, will hopefully make them think and consider their actions next time, rather than make them angry.


Apart from a few times when I really been upset, I always say sorry even if it's not my fault.


----------



## Happy Paws2

At last visiting restrictions at hospitals have been lifted, a patient can now have one visitor a day for 2 hours.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> At last visiting restrictions at hospitals have been lifted, a patient can now have one visitor a day for 2 hours.


About time!

Sister and her DD have Covid. Sis is vulnerable and she contacted her doctor and they arranged for anti virals Pavloid to be sent the next day from Chelsea and westminster CMDU ( covid medicines delivery unit ) by courier. She seems to be doing ok.


----------



## willa

Happy Paws2 said:


> At last visiting restrictions at hospitals have been lifted, a patient can now have one visitor a day for 2 hours.


Gosh that is late to happen. My local London hospital ( Chelsea and Westminster) has open visiting back to normal, 2pm - 8.30pm.


----------



## kimthecat

Is anyone still wearing a mask? You have to wear them in hospitals. I'm still wearing one when I visit any stores

It seems there have been more outbreaks of Covid Omnicron variations. 








Covid-19 in the UK


Explore the data on coronavirus in the UK.



www.bbc.co.uk




*Covid infections in the UK are up by more than 40%, the latest weekly Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures suggest.*
Around 1.4m people in the UK had coronavirus in the week ending 11 June, up from around 990,000 the week before.


----------



## Sandysmum

I seem to be the only person still wearing a mask where I live and there's hardly anyone social distancing anymore. It's like most people think covid has all gone away, and everything's back to how it used to be.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

kimthecat said:


> Is anyone still wearing a mask? You have to wear them in hospitals. I'm still wearing one when I visit any stores
> 
> It seems there have been more outbreaks of Covid Omnicron variations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covid-19 in the UK
> 
> 
> Explore the data on coronavirus in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Covid infections in the UK are up by more than 40%, the latest weekly Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures suggest.*
> Around 1.4m people in the UK had coronavirus in the week ending 11 June, up from around 990,000 the week before.


Mask wearing was removed from the hospital I work in last week. I’m still wearing mine - and am the only member of staff I’ve seen at all still wearing one. There are a few departments where they still need to be worn. There is one doctor I do a clinic with, who wears one when she’s with me as she respects how I feel. Whilst it’s nice not to have to argue with people anymore, I really feel unsafe - we have upwards of 100 people a day passing through our department and are often in quite small rooms with them for varying lengths of time. There’s a whole thing of, “we must respect people who want to wear a mask still” - and yet every day I’ve worked since the rules changed, I’ve been asked by many people why I’m still wearing one. I await the emails asking us to all work bank shifts once the infection rates amongst staff go up again…!

I’m also still wearing them in shops, only a couple of people besides me last week, I’ll see later today when I go to Tesco.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I wear a mask in medical settings and visiting MIL but otherwise, usually no.

I’m triple jabbed and have had covid (was still following mask/hand protocols then too) so have told myself my immune system has it covered …. 🤞

I’ll have the 4th jab when offered.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> Is anyone still wearing a mask? You have to wear them in hospitals. I'm still wearing one when I visit any stores
> 
> It seems there have been more outbreaks of Covid Omnicron variations.


I'm still wearing one in all indoor settings, only seen one other elderly man wearing one in the last month. I went for my 4th jab on Tuesday, bearing in mind that a lot of us are vulnerable, not one person dealing with me was wearing a mask and I was ushered into a tiny room with two people who had already mixed with dozens of people


----------



## Siskin

I’m not going to shops that much, if at all, have been to pubs though. Only wearing a mask in hospital situations as we are still required to here as of 10 days ago.


----------



## Deguslave

I'm still wearing one when I travel, I have to wear one to go into the vets or any human medical facility. I do find they help with my hayfever as well.


----------



## StormyThai

I'm still wearing one when inside while shopping and in crowded areas and my partner is still wearing his during work (taxi driver) and around strangers.
Neither of us have had covid yet so we are happy to keep wearing them...we are in the minority and get the occasional judgmental look but don't particularly care


----------



## Jaf

In Spain masks are still required in medical places (hospitals, drs, pharmacies, vets). Not sure about public transport but still see masks in taxis. Some shop staff still wearing them, but not legally required.

I have mixed feelings. So much easier to communicate without masks (I'm hearing and speech impaired) but feel safer with masks. Not just worried about covid either, flu and colds can be nasty.


----------



## Psygon

Mostly don't wear a mask now. Do usually carry one around tho so if an environment feels particularly close and busy I can wear one - or if it seems the right thing to do. Took one of the cats to the vets for check up, practice no longer require masks but I noticed my vet was wearing one so when I went in for consultation I put mine on.

Went to a cat show at the weekend and it was really busy and I'd forgotten my mask so ended up spending a lot of time outside and away from the people (which is daft really as the thing I like about cat show is showing off tonks and Jammy to people heh).


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> I'm still wearing one in all indoor settings, only seen one other elderly man wearing one in the last month. I went for my 4th jab on Tuesday, bearing in mind that a lot of us are vulnerable, not one person dealing with me was wearing a mask and I was ushered into a tiny room with two people who had already mixed with dozens of people


That’s not right. Comes under “medical setting” and would expect masks still to be encouraged tbh.


----------



## SbanR

@Lurcherlad you have a star against your picture. Are you a Premium Member??😁


----------



## Lurcherlad

SbanR said:


> @Lurcherlad you have a star against your picture. Are you a Premium Member??😁


I’ve been given it free for a year, apparently ….


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> I’ve been given it free for a year, apparently ….


Who have you been sucking up to🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## stuaz

I’m not wearing a mask anymore. Back to normal as far as I am concerned.


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> I'm still wearing one in all indoor settings, only seen one other elderly man wearing one in the last month. I went for my 4th jab on Tuesday, bearing in mind that a lot of us are vulnerable, not one person dealing with me was wearing a mask and I was ushered into a tiny room with two people who had already mixed with dozens of people


I had my 4th jab back in April and they all wore masks and we did. That doesnt sound right that they werent wearing them .


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Who have you been sucking up to🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣


 What does it mean .?


----------



## Psygon

Lurcherlad said:


> I’ve been given it free for a year, apparently ….


Can you tell us what all the exciting stuff we are missing is like, or is it secret?? 🤣


----------



## kimthecat

Psygon said:


> Can you tell us what all the exciting stuff we are missing is like, or is it secret?? 🤣


Ive just come across the PF FAQ,

It says. 
*" Become a premium member to experience it all *

*Reduced-Ad Browsing Experience*
Browse, discuss, and enjoy reduced-ad experience while supporting the community
*Exclusive Premium Badge*
Stand out within the community with a premium badge on your profile
*Access to Premium Forums*
Get exclusive access to experts, forums, and discussions
*Unlock Focused Reading Mode*
Special ability to remove right column so you can concentrate on discussions "

I dont know about the access to experts , forms and discussions.
I though we were the experts


----------



## Psygon

kimthecat said:


> Ive just come across the PF FAQ,
> 
> It says.
> *" Become a premium member to experience it all *
> 
> *Reduced-Ad Browsing Experience*
> Browse, discuss, and enjoy reduced-ad experience while supporting the community
> *Exclusive Premium Badge*
> Stand out within the community with a premium badge on your profile
> *Access to Premium Forums*
> Get exclusive access to experts, forums, and discussions
> *Unlock Focused Reading Mode*
> Special ability to remove right column so you can concentrate on discussions "
> 
> I dont know about the access to experts , forms and discussions.
> I though we were the experts


I think it's incredibly bizarre that we have to pay for a more accessible experience with the 'Focused reading mode'. It feels a bit like a shop charging you to come in if you are in a wheelchair (and I know that's a bit of an extreme comparison).


----------



## SbanR

Lurcherlad said:


> I’ve been given it free for a year, apparently ….


Do tell us about all the special forums you're privy to


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> What does it mean .?


Tbh I have no idea 😐


----------



## Lurcherlad

SbanR said:


> Do tell us about all the special forums you're privy to


I suspect I’ll just stick to General and Dog Chat as usual ☺


----------



## Lurcherlad

Psygon said:


> Can you tell us what all the exciting stuff we are missing is like, or is it secret?? 🤣


I doubt it will make much difference to me tbh.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Who have you been sucking up to🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣


Nobody …. Honest! ☺


----------



## Lurcherlad

Psygon said:


> I think it's incredibly bizarre that we have to pay for a more accessible experience with the 'Focused reading mode'. It feels a bit like a shop charging you to come in if you are in a wheelchair (and I know that's a bit of an extreme comparison).


Well, I guess the hope is I will sign up and pay for the extra after the year to continue with it….


----------



## Happy Paws2

Had my Spring Booster on Wednesday no side affects so far.

Still wearing a mask in the shops.


----------



## O2.0

stuaz said:


> I’m not wearing a mask anymore. Back to normal as far as I am concerned.


Same here. The only places we wear masks anymore is in the doctor's office and at the airport. 
Apparently in the northeast thought they're still being much more cautious. 

@Lurcherlad I was gifted a premium membership as well but as far as I can tell the only difference is the premium forum which right now has only one post and that's about what premium membership offers 😂
Focused reading is nice, it gets rid of the side bar, but I block that out mentally, and there are no ads. 

It was a nice gesture to offer the premium to some members but it may backfire as we tell everyone it's not worth paying for!


----------



## kimthecat

Lurcherlad said:


> I suspect I’ll just stick to General and Dog Chat as usual ☺


That's all I'm managing so far plus Health.


----------



## Jaf

My aunt's friend in UK tested positive a couple of days ago. She's in her 60s but healthy, so far just been feeling flu type symptoms.


----------



## Deguslave

My elderly neighbours are still suffering the after effects of their covid bouts. Both have said they now lack the energy to do more than one task a day, but they are slowly improving. Both still struggling with hearing and the lady still can't taste or smell anything. Its been about a month now.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

Interestingly there were a few more people wearing masks in the hospital yesterday. Though of course it could just be that they would anyway, like I do.

I just don’t know how long I will wear mine for.


----------



## Jobeth

..


----------



## rona

Deguslave said:


> My elderly neighbours are still suffering the after effects of their covid bouts. Both have said they now lack the energy to do more than one task a day, but they are slowly improving. Both still struggling with hearing and the lady still can't taste or smell anything. Its been about a month now.


Glad they have got away with it relatively unscathed


----------



## kimthecat

Ive just realised that I havent been anywhere on my own for a long while due to Covid and the restrictions . I need to start going to town etc on a bus before I lose my nerve.


----------



## ukcatowner

I have just tested positive for the first time with Covid. My lateral flow test was negative yesterday but I had such a rough nights sleep tested myself again this morning and it was positive. At the moment it feels like a head cold with a cough now and again. I have had both my initial vaccines and a booster previously. I have been dreading catching this. My boss has confirmed he has also tested positive this morning.

I am majorly freaking a little. What should I expect with this? It does feel quite mild. How long should I stay indoors?


----------



## kimthecat

ukcatowner said:


> I have just tested positive for the first time with Covid. My lateral flow test was negative yesterday but I had such a rough nights sleep tested myself again this morning and it was positive. At the moment it feels like a head cold with a cough now and again. I have had both my initial vaccines and a booster previously. I have been dreading catching this. My boss has confirmed he has also tested positive this morning.
> 
> I am majorly freaking a little. What should I expect with this? It does feel quite mild. How long should I stay indoors?


Im sorry to hear this . Hope you feel better soon. I would stay away from other people until you test negative .


----------



## Happy Paws2

Could be a worrying winter if it's like this now...









Covid infections hit 2.7 million in UK


The latest figures show an estimated one in 25 people has the virus.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Lurcherlad

ukcatowner said:


> I have just tested positive for the first time with Covid. My lateral flow test was negative yesterday but I had such a rough nights sleep tested myself again this morning and it was positive. At the moment it feels like a head cold with a cough now and again. I have had both my initial vaccines and a booster previously. I have been dreading catching this. My boss has confirmed he has also tested positive this morning.
> 
> I am majorly freaking a little. What should I expect with this? It does feel quite mild. How long should I stay indoors?


Sorry to hear this.

Try not to stress over it … most people do not have extreme symptoms.

I did feel pretty rough … just like I did when I had “proper” flu a few years ago.

Aches, sweats, cough, sore throat, headache, very tired and lack of appetite…. for about 5 days … fully clear by day 9, but it took a week or two to feel strong again.

I kept hydrated, took paracetamol and slept a lot, ate mostly toast or toasties tbh.

Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Deguslave

The only advice I can offer is listen to your body. If you want to sleep, then sleep, if there's any food you fancy, even if its not healthy, then eat it. Your body knows best what it needs to recover.

I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> Could be a worrying winter if it's like this now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covid infections hit 2.7 million in UK
> 
> 
> The latest figures show an estimated one in 25 people has the virus.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


 London has the highest rise of Covid cases. Its not going to go away.


----------



## Cully

How many COVID jabs should we have had by now? I've had the initial 2 plus a booster, but that was in November so I've probably lost any immunity, which explains why I recently had a mild dose of COVID.
Just wondering if I'm up to date with jabs now.


----------



## Lurcherlad

There is another booster being given, I believe.

We are hoping to be given it before Winter.

Having covid will have extended your immunity.


----------



## Happy Paws2

If only people were still wearing masks in crowded places and on pubic transport, I'm sure there wouldn't be so many cases.


----------



## SbanR

I think the very vulnerable have been offered a second booster.
The rest of us will be offered a booster in the autumn.


----------



## ForestWomble

Cully said:


> How many COVID jabs should we have had by now? I've had the initial 2 plus a booster, but that was in November so I've probably lost any immunity, which explains why I recently had a mild dose of COVID.
> Just wondering if I'm up to date with jabs now.


I believe some have been offered 4 and will be getting a 5th in autumn.


----------



## rona

I've had 4 as I'm classed as vulnerable, my vaccinations are running quite a bit later compared to most others and I seem to be getting them just as the next wave hits. Hoping this gives me good protection as antibodies going up not down


----------



## Siskin

We’ve only had the three, should get the autumn jab given our ages


----------



## kimthecat

Cully said:


> How many COVID jabs should we have had by now? I've had the initial 2 plus a booster, but that was in November so I've probably lost any immunity, which explains why I recently had a mild dose of COVID.
> Just wondering if I'm up to date with jabs now.


Iv had four as I'm vulnerable . Just recently found out you're supposed to stop methotrexate before and after the jab as it makes it less effective. Now they tell us !


----------



## Happy Paws2

We have both had four jabs. OH went to the Town Hall for his they came to the house for mine.


----------



## Siskin

Today my nose has been running like a tap, lots of sneezing, headachy, so did a test. Negative. So I guess it really is a summer cold


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Today my nose has been running like a tap, lots of sneezing, headachy, so did a test. Negative. So I guess it really is a summer cold


I've heard that a lot of people have had symptoms for a couple of days before they test positive.
I hope that's not the case with you.

Where would you have got it?


----------



## Jobeth

Siskin said:


> Today my nose has been running like a tap, lots of sneezing, headachy, so did a test. Negative. So I guess it really is a summer cold


I was in close contact Thursday and started minor symptoms on Saturday. The test was clear but by Sunday it was positive. The list of common symptoms have changed and the top ones are sore throat, headache, runny nose and blocked nose. I’ve not coughed at all and it’s more like a really bad cold with a sore throat. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## kimthecat

Good point about the tests not showing positive straight away.


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I've heard that a lot of people have had symptoms for a couple of days before they test positive.
> I hope that's not the case with you.
> 
> Where would you have got it?


Oh.
The only place I can think of is the hospital visit Wednesday last week, I also was at the hairdressers that day which was quite busy.


----------



## Siskin

Jobeth said:


> I was in close contact Thursday and started minor symptoms on Saturday. The test was clear but by Sunday it was positive. The list of common symptoms have changed and the top ones are sore throat, headache, runny nose and blocked nose. I’ve not coughed at all and it’s more like a really bad cold with a sore throat. Hope you feel better soon.


Not got a sore throat, perhaps a tiny bit scratchy but hardly noticeable


----------



## huckybuck

@Siskin mine started with a sore throat and head cold. I knew I’d got something but tested neg for 3 days. It was only on the 4th when I felt really dreadful and was sneezing and spluttering all over the place it showed up positive. 

I’ll keep my fingers crossed it’s not though. Grass pollen is really bad atm.


----------



## Siskin

huckybuck said:


> @Siskin mine started with a sore throat and head cold. I knew I’d got something but tested neg for 3 days. It was only on the 4th when I felt really dreadful and was sneezing and spluttering all over the place it showed up positive.
> 
> I’ll keep my fingers crossed it’s not though. Grass pollen is really bad atm.


Hmm, will keep clear of others just in case although I’ve probably infected my friend who took me to WI on Wednesday and everyone that was there. We’re planning to drive to Suffolk on Saturday, hopefully I will be ok.


----------



## willa

My Sister has Covid again ( she had it with me a few months ago ). 
Only reason she knows is she’s meant to be flying back to Hong Kong & the PCR came back Positive


----------



## kimthecat

Went into town today for the first time in a while and it seems Covid is over. Its strange how quickly you forget. I went into Boots and bought some sun glasses and wore then home. On the way home , i suddenly thought of all the people that could have tried them on before me and I was Ugh ugh ugh ! I wiped them down when i got home .


----------



## Siskin

Yesterday I went in to Tesco’s for the first time since February 2020, it was rather a strange experience. It was nice though just to see things available and ponder why things seem to be in the shop but not available online.


----------



## rona

Wouldn't think so at my new doctors. Several off with Covid!


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Wouldn't think so at my new doctors. Several off with Covid!


Three out of 12 of us at work had it last month.


----------



## kimthecat

First bivalent COVID-19 booster vaccine approved by UK medicines regulator


The adapted COVID-19 vaccine made by Moderna targets two different coronavirus variants: the original virus from 2020 and the Omicron variant




www.gov.uk





An updated version of the COVID-19 vaccine made by Moderna that targets two coronavirus variants (known as a “bivalent” vaccine) has today been approved for adult booster doses by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) after it was found to meet the UK regulator’s standards of safety, quality and effectiveness.


The decision to grant approval for this booster vaccine in the UK was endorsed by the government’s independent expert scientific advisory body, the Commission on Human Medicines, after carefully reviewing the evidence.


In each dose of the booster vaccine, ‘Spikevax bivalent Original/Omicron’, half of the vaccine (25 micrograms) targets the original virus strain from 2020 and the other half (25 micrograms) targets Omicron.


The MHRA’s decision is based on data from a clinical trial which showed that a booster with the bivalent Moderna vaccine triggers a strong immune response against both Omicron (BA.1) and the original 2020 strain. In an exploratory analysis the bivalent vaccine was also found to generate a good immune response against the Omicron sub-variants BA.4 and BA.5.


Safety monitoring showed that the side effects observed were the same as those seen for the original Moderna booster dose and were typically mild and self-resolving, and no serious safety concerns were identified.


----------



## rona

kimthecat said:


> An updated version of the COVID-19 vaccine made by Moderna that targets two coronavirus variants (known as a “bivalent” vaccine) has today been approved for adult booster doses by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) after it was found to meet the UK regulator’s standards of safety, quality and effectiveness.


I've heard that Pfizer isn't far behind. Really don't want a Moderna jab, everyone I know that's had one has felt very unwell for several days 

Has anyone had issues with their arm for weeks after a jab?


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> I've heard that Pfizer isn't far behind. Really don't want a Moderna jab, everyone I know that's had one has felt very unwell for several days
> 
> Has anyone had issues with their arm for weeks after a jab?


What kind of arm issues @rona? When I had my second Covid jab last year the nurse seemed rather rough, everyone in my group went ouch. I also felt it was done rather high, more closer to the shoulder. I began to gradually have a worsening shoulder pain which I still have now and I have heard of people having had shoulder pain from the Covid jabs, but I don’t know much detail. 
I still have it now, doesn’t trouble me much during the day, but at night I notice it more and have to somehow arrange my arm in a certain way to negate the pain. Sometimes I wake up feeling quite sore
On the other hand it could be something else entirely, muscular thing like frozen shoulder or whatever, and just coincidental.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> What kind of arm issues @rona? When I had my second Covid jab last year the nurse seemed rather rough, everyone in my group went ouch. I also felt it was done rather high, more closer to the shoulder. I began to gradually have a worsening shoulder pain which I still have now and I have heard of people having had shoulder pain from the Covid jabs, but I don’t know much detail.
> I still have it now, doesn’t trouble me much during the day, but at night I notice it more and have to somehow arrange my arm in a certain way to negate the pain. Sometimes I wake up feeling quite sore
> On the other hand it could be something else entirely, muscular thing like frozen shoulder or whatever, and just coincidental.


Mines a kind of deep ache, first in the bicep and injection site area, now it's sometimes in the forearm too. I feel that my arm has gone weak


----------



## Siskin

rona said:


> Mines a kind of deep ache, first in the bicep and injection site area, now it's sometimes in the forearm too. I feel that my arm has gone weak


Have you spoken to a doctor, if you can get an appointment that is?

Mine only aches in the shoulder although is quite deep


----------



## kimthecat

rona said:


> Has anyone had issues with their arm for weeks after a jab?


No just a bit sore for a couple of days . Ive had zenica and pfizer . I dont think I had Moderna.


----------



## rona

Siskin said:


> Have you spoken to a doctor, if you can get an appointment that is?
> 
> Mine only aches in the shoulder although is quite deep


No, toying with the idea, though my surgery has doctors off with Covid


----------



## Jobeth

rona said:


> Mines a kind of deep ache, first in the bicep and injection site area, now it's sometimes in the forearm too. I feel that my arm has gone weak


My friend had symptoms similar to carpal tunnel syndrome. The GP referred her to a neurologist who recommended a MRI. By the time she had that appointment her symptoms had pretty much gone and she is fine now. It is a rare side effect but I’d see your GP just in case it’s a coincidence.


----------



## rona

Just taken a test. Not sniffling but have been feeling worse and worse for 3 days. Could be this constant living in an oven, but I've someone coming to cut my hair at 2pm, so thought I better check!


----------



## Gemmaa

My mum developed a mild cough and cold like symptoms. She tested negative on Thursday, and then tested positive on Friday.
There are only 3 people who could have given it to her - although none of us had symptoms.
I *think *it might have been my brother, because he saw her on the 6th, after coming back from Slovenia, and then she got a sore throat on the 16th....but then again, maybe it was me and I was asymptomatic 
My dad tested positive this morning.

So far I appear to be okay...would that suggest I might have got away with it? Or is my dad likely to be a new risk?


----------



## Siskin

My SIL had Covid during June and into July. She wasn’t too bad, enough to feel a need to stay a bit more in bed and take it easy for a few days. However she says she’s having a hard time with the after effects and feels really out of sorts still. 
Have heard about someone who went back to his job quickly which is very physical has now come down with cardiac problems, make sure you rest well afterwards and don’t overdo it too soon. It seems that myocarditis is becoming known as a rather nasty side effect if you don’t take it easy after a dose of Covid.


----------



## Gemmaa

So much for being optimistic, I did get it 

It's not horrific, I don't want to jinx myself, but I've definitely had worse colds in the past....although I am bit scared that it's tricking me and will get worse suddenly.

I don't feel amazing and don't have a lot of energy, but I can't really complain in comparison to how some people have struggled with it. 
If it stays at this level and doesn't cause issues down the line, it's pretty manageable. 
I think the most annoying thing is not knowing exactly when it'll go, or how long I'm infectious for. 

Disappointing that I'll probably have to cancel another training class for Charlie, although maybe his French Bulldog nemesis will have finished his lessons and not come back, so there might be a silver lining here!


----------



## Boxer123

Gemmaa said:


> So much for being optimistic, I did get it
> 
> It's not horrific, I don't want to jinx myself, but I've definitely had worse colds in the past....although I am bit scared that it's tricking me and will get worse suddenly.
> 
> I don't feel amazing and don't have a lot of energy, but I can't really complain in comparison to how some people have struggled with it.
> If it stays at this level and doesn't cause issues down the line, it's pretty manageable.
> I think the most annoying thing is not knowing exactly when it'll go, or how long I'm infectious for.
> 
> Disappointing that I'll probably have to cancel another training class for Charlie, although maybe his French Bulldog nemesis will have finished his lessons and not come back, so there might be a silver lining here!


Hopefully you will get away with a mild case. Your post made me laugh Loki has to have a nemesis or life is boring.


----------



## Gemmaa

Boxer123 said:


> Hopefully you will get away with a mild case. Your post made me laugh Loki has to have a nemesis or life is boring.


They're hideous, aren't they!? 😂
Pretty sure the owner hates us now, but Charlie is getting a right stick up his butt about French Bulldogs...I think it's the face and weird movements, they look a bit aggressive.
Could be worse I guess, at least French Bulldogs aren't a super common, really popular, everywhere we go, type of breed..... 🙈 🙃😆


----------



## Boxer123

Gemmaa said:


> They're hideous, aren't they!? 😂
> Pretty sure the owner hates us now, but Charlie is getting a right stick up his butt about French Bulldogs...I think it's the face and weird movements, they look a bit aggressive.
> Could be worse I guess, at least French Bulldogs aren't a super common, really popular, everywhere we go, type of breed..... 🙈 🙃😆


 You’ll probably only see one or two.


----------



## ForestWomble

Wishing you a speedy recovery @Gemmaa.


----------



## kimthecat

I have been informed I can book another Covid booster. Ive had four jabs already and not sure If I want another one. 

Anyone else having another booster?


----------



## Kaily

I haven't been offered mine yet but considering declining it, still not sure


----------



## SbanR

kimthecat said:


> I have been informed I can book another Covid booster. Ive had four jabs already and not sure If I want another one.
> 
> Anyone else having another booster?


I'm booked in for mid October. My last jab was a year ago, so slightly different to you.
If you're concerned about possible reactions, it really does depend on individuals. I know two people who've already had four jabs prior to another booster. One sailed through it (he also previously had a mild case of Covid), while it knocked the sails off the other.


----------



## Siskin

We’ve had our emails to say we can book, waiting until we get home. OH is in two minds whether to have it or not. I feel I ought to


----------



## huckybuck

I’ve had 3 jabs and just been offered the fourth. All mine were Pfizer but I got Covid only 3 months after the 3rd. It was horrid so I will definitely be taking up the offer. I figure I might have felt even worse had I not had any of the jabs. I honestly thought I’d be ok if I caught it having had the 3 jabs and being relatively fit and healthy but it was a wake up call to me.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I declined my fourth jab**, not sure yet about having another booster but I guess I will. Might think about a flu jab this year too. 

** One of the blood conditions I have is lumped in with blood cancers, even though it's not a cancer it can be a precursor. I'm at no higher risk of getting Covid with it. Hence I declined.


----------



## Pawscrossed

My partner had his 4th and told me afterwards, he didn’t think about declining. Sailed through and almost forgot to tell me! Is there a reason why people are not having them? Genuine question, I am due one and felt awful both times.


----------



## Deguslave

I've had 3 and I'm waiting for the call up for the 4th. I'm thinking about declining as I react badly to needles, and badly to injections. I've still got shoulder pain from the first one! And three small lumps where the needles went in.


----------



## Kaily

Pawscrossed said:


> My partner had his 4th and told me afterwards, he didn’t think about declining. Sailed through and almost forgot to tell me! Is there a reason why people are not having them? Genuine question, I am due one and felt awful both times.


I think maybe naively that I don't need it. I live alone, am rarely around people other than at the supermarket.

Also covid is now a mild virus in the majority of cases so I wonder if it is good to keep vaccinating unless actually vulnerable.


----------



## Siskin

Our friends who have recently arrived in Australia have tested positive for Covid. 
They have been unable to visit their daughter for the last two years and have been putting it off until they felt it safer to go. Both are in their 70’s and he has heart issues. They only got their about 5 days ago and assume they picked it up on the plane or at the airports. Daughter and family have moved out to the beach home they have and hopefully they will be ok.
Friends had their fourth jabs early this month so are hoping this will protect them


----------



## Emlar

Just had my booster and flu jab. Feel rough afterwards but also very grateful that I am privileged enough to live in a country where this is given freely and readily.


----------



## Lurcherlad

OH has been called for his Autumn booster and needs to make the appointment. I will get called soon, I hope.

I caught it once (possibly twice) as did DS, and we both felt pretty rough with it, so I’m of the view we could have been so much worse without the jabs.

OH and I are both booked in for our flu jabs at the end of October.


----------



## O2.0

Kaily said:


> Also covid is now a mild virus in the majority of cases so I wonder if it is good to keep vaccinating unless actually vulnerable.


I won't be getting another vaccine unless I'm required to. 
I got the first course of 2 vaccines and a booster. Felt bad with all 3 shots. 
Before vaccines were available I was exposed multiple times never got sick, never tested positive. Have continued to be exposed and still have never tested positive. 

I'm not anti vaccine, I am vaccinated for all the good stuff and even got a measles booster when we had an outbreak a few years ago. Same with whooping cough. 

But I don't get flu vaccines and I won't be getting another covid shot if I can avoid it. I've never had the flu and the one time I did get a vaccine, I was sick for 3 days. 
Risk benefit...


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> I won't be getting another vaccine unless I'm required to.
> I got the first course of 2 vaccines and a booster. Felt bad with all 3 shots.
> Before vaccines were available I was exposed multiple times never got sick, never tested positive. Have continued to be exposed and still have never tested positive.
> 
> I'm not anti vaccine, I am vaccinated for all the good stuff and even got a measles booster when we had an outbreak a few years ago. Same with whooping cough.
> 
> But I don't get flu vaccines and I won't be getting another covid shot if I can avoid it. I've never had the flu and the one time I did get a vaccine, I was sick for 3 days.
> Risk benefit...





O2.0 said:


> I won't be getting another vaccine unless I'm required to.
> I got the first course of 2 vaccines and a booster. Felt bad with all 3 shots.
> Before vaccines were available I was exposed multiple times never got sick, never tested positive. Have continued to be exposed and still have never tested positive.
> 
> I'm not anti vaccine, I am vaccinated for all the good stuff and even got a measles booster when we had an outbreak a few years ago. Same with whooping cough.
> 
> But I don't get flu vaccines and I won't be getting another covid shot if I can avoid it. I've never had the flu and the one time I did get a vaccine, I was sick for 3 days.
> Risk benefit...


I have had two. I’m the same always had my vaccinations not an anti vaxer but was very concerned when halfway through my course they decided my age group shouldn’t be having AZ due to clotting risk. Unfortunately a work friend a similar age to me passed away around the same time due to a clot. I have no idea if it was vaccine related but it took a lot for me to get the second dose I felt under a lot of pressure and was unbelievably anxious

Then came the third does and loads of people I know had bad reactions to it. Also evidence has come out it is effecting women’s periods. So I didn’t.

I have been in close covid contact a lot and so far dodged it I’m sure my luck will run out.


----------



## kimthecat

Ive got my booster booked for this afternoon. It will be my fifth jab, I wasn't going to bother but I saw my rheumy consultant last week and he said its best to have it so I followed his advice. 

Having a wander round the shops last week and it felt good to be back to more or less normal . The past few years feel like a bad dream.


----------



## rona

I've been ill since my last jab in June. I will not be having more even though I'm classed as vulnerable


----------



## kimthecat

@rona Im sorry to hear that. I don't blame you for not wanting another one. I feel ok so far.


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> I've been ill since my last jab in June. I will not be having more even though I'm classed as vulnerable


Hope you are soon feeling better, rona. I've only had two and that's my lot - in fact no-one I have spoken to has taken up the recent offer.


----------



## Siskin

Calvine said:


> Hope you are soon feeling better, rona. I've only had two and that's my lot - in fact no-one I have spoken to has taken up the recent offer.


I’m dithering, OH has decided not to. We will have the flu jabs though. 
Friends who flew out to Australia to finally get to see their daughter and promptly got Covid are now fully recovered after having a very mild dose. He’s now down with a cold which is far worse then the Covid in severity. They did have their Covid jabs a few weeks prior to flying.


----------



## kimthecat

kimthecat said:


> Ive got my booster booked for this afternoon. It will be my fifth jab, I wasn't going to bother but I saw my rheumy consultant last week and he said its best to have it so I followed his advice.
> 
> Having a wander round the shops last week and it felt good to be back to more or less normal . The past few years feel like a bad dream.


I dont want to put anyone off but I had my booster and late that evening I became freezing cold and my hands were like ice and I couldnt get warm . later I was sick in the early hours.I Am onlu just feeling better. Im glad I didnt have the flu jab as well. 
I have this reaction the first time I had the vaccination but was fine with the others so dont know why this happened .


----------



## O2.0

I reacted badly to all 3 vaccines I had, the initial shot, the second one, and the booster. 

I'm a little worried about how little information we're getting about vaccine reactions. When my kids got all their childhood vaccines I got pages and pages of information (more than I wanted) about what reactions could possibly happen. With covid vaccines all we got was "safe and effective."

Frankly I'm not entirely convinced the vaccine and booster didn't have something to do with my husband's blood clot that caused him to have a stroke. He has recovered thank goodness, but he will never be the same, and he was perfectly healthy before, no risk factors for stroke, relatively young (50), and they could not find any reason for why he had the stroke which in itself is scary because if you don't know what caused it, how do you prevent another one? 

If covid were still the huge danger it was back in March and April of 2020, I could see the risk/benefit of the vaccine, but it is now a relatively benign virus, not unlike the many cold viruses that already exist.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> I reacted badly to all 3 vaccines I had, the initial shot, the second one, and the booster.
> 
> I'm a little worried about how little information we're getting about vaccine reactions. When my kids got all their childhood vaccines I got pages and pages of information (more than I wanted) about what reactions could possibly happen. With covid vaccines all we got was "safe and effective."
> 
> Frankly I'm not entirely convinced the vaccine and booster didn't have something to do with my husband's blood clot that caused him to have a stroke. He has recovered thank goodness, but he will never be the same, and he was perfectly healthy before, no risk factors for stroke, relatively young (50), and they could not find any reason for why he had the stroke which in itself is scary because if you don't know what caused it, how do you prevent another one?
> 
> If covid were still the huge danger it was back in March and April of 2020, I could see the risk/benefit of the vaccine, but it is now a relatively benign virus, not unlike the many cold viruses that already exist.


Sorry to hear about your husband. I agree it’s worrying the reactions I’ve heard people discussing seem quite extreme.


----------



## Lurcherlad

I don’t recall having any reactions from the jabs (other than a sore arm) but I did get covid and was very rough, so I figure the jabs were the lesser of the evils for me.

I do wonder how much worse I might have been with covid had I not been jabbed.

Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with.


----------



## Mrs Funkin

I've had two jabs and a booster, declined the second booster and now have to decide about the next booster we are being offered. 

I don't know what to do. 

(As an aside, we are going to have to start giving Covid boosters to pregnant women, alongside our offerings of pertussis and 'flu jabs. I'm giving NO Covid boosters until I have confirmation that they aren't expecting pregnant women to have three jabs at the same time!).


----------



## Mrs Funkin

(I'm so sorry about your husband @O2.0 what a dreadful thing to have happened)


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> I reacted badly to all 3 vaccines I had, the initial shot, the second one, and the booster.
> 
> I'm a little worried about how little information we're getting about vaccine reactions. When my kids got all their childhood vaccines I got pages and pages of information (more than I wanted) about what reactions could possibly happen. With covid vaccines all we got was "safe and effective."
> 
> Frankly I'm not entirely convinced the vaccine and booster didn't have something to do with my husband's blood clot that caused him to have a stroke. He has recovered thank goodness, but he will never be the same, and he was perfectly healthy before, no risk factors for stroke, relatively young (50), and they could not find any reason for why he had the stroke which in itself is scary because if you don't know what caused it, how do you prevent another one?
> 
> If covid were still the huge danger it was back in March and April of 2020, I could see the risk/benefit of the vaccine, but it is now a relatively benign virus, not unlike the many cold viruses that already exist.


I’m so sorry to hear about your husband, what an awful thing to happen
Must admit I am going off the idea of the fourth jab


----------



## Cleo38

I had my booster in January & ended up in hospital due to severely elevated blood pressure & a severe headache. This all started several hours after the booster & on the 5th day I felt so bad that I collapsed.

Although my elevated BP has now been controlled by meds & the headaches stopped a few weeks afterwards I have felt ill ever since. I've suffered severe fatigue, aching muscles & strange heart palpitations & it's only been in the past 3 wks that I have actually started to feel alot better. I will never have another booster


----------



## huckybuck

Lurcherlad said:


> I don’t recall having any reactions from the jabs (other than a sore arm) but I did get covid and was very rough, so I figure the jabs were the lesser of the evils for me.
> 
> I do wonder how much worse I might have been with covid had I not been jabbed.
> 
> Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with.


I was exactly the same as you and I will definitely be having my Covid booster and flu jab when I can. I felt rotten with Covid - I don’t want to feel as bad as that again. 

The only reaction from the jab I had was a sore armpit due to the lymph gland being activated. It kept me awake that night but I took paracetemol after and it lessened the soreness. 

I had my flu jab for the first time last year and no effects at all.

I do worry that the NHS is going to be under pressure again as I am hearing more people say they aren’t going to have it this time around.


----------



## Emlar

It's a tricky one. And you have to do what you think is best for you.

I work in a bleeding disorders clinic and we look after the patients with VITT (vaccine induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis. The consultants I work with are amazing, and I trust them completely. They still advise having the vaccine as they say that the risk of complications, clots, etc from having covid far outway the risks of similar from the vaccine. So that swayed it for me!


----------



## Cleo38

Emlar said:


> It's a tricky one. And you have to do what you think is best for you.
> 
> I work in a bleeding disorders clinic and we look after the patients with VITT (vaccine induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis. The consultants I work with are amazing, and I trust them completely. They still advise having the vaccine as they say that the risk of complications, clots, etc from having covid far outway the risks of similar from the vaccine. So that swayed it for me!


Definitely in most cases but I honestly feel that those of us who have suffered serious side effects have been ignored which is so very wrong.

After I was sent to hospital my GP was adamant that the booster did not cause elevated blood pressure but a quick search of Google scholar showed a couple of studies that did show this.

I have since been in contact with people in the UK,, US & Ireland & all of us have felt that the medical profession has been very reluctant to admit that the booster is responsible or investigate our symptoms further.


----------



## Emlar

Cleo38 said:


> Definitely in most cases but I honestly feel that those of us who have suffered serious side effects have been ignored which is so very wrong.
> 
> After I was sent to hospital my GP was adamant that the booster did not cause elevated blood pressure but a quick search of Google scholar showed a couple of studies that did show this.
> 
> I have since been in contact with people in the UK,, US & Ireland & all of us have felt that the medical profession has been very reluctant to admit that the booster is responsible or investigate our symptoms further.


Oh I don't doubt it, and definitely think it's completely personal choice. And everyone reacts differently to vaccines, medications, etc. I think its silly of any medical professional to dismiss side effects or not investigate.


----------



## willa

Mum has Covid. She had another booster few weeks ago & now has Covid for the second time.
I spoke to her on the phone & she sounded like she has horrid flu


----------



## Lurcherlad

willa said:


> Mum has Covid. She had another booster few weeks ago & now has Covid for the second time.
> I spoke to her on the phone & she sounded like she has horrid flu


Hope she feels better soon.


----------



## O2.0

Cleo38 said:


> I have since been in contact with people in the UK,, US & Ireland & all of us have felt that the medical profession has been very reluctant to admit that the booster is responsible or investigate our symptoms further.


This has me worried too.
I'm concerned how little transparency there has been about side effects of the vaccine. Every other vaccine, the medical professionals and researchers have been very honest about potential issues. But this one they've kept everything very quiet until the evidence was so overwhelming they had to address it.
I know what they're doing - they want people to get vaccinated so are going to downplay or omit any information that might prevent people from vaccinating, but that's just wrong. You can't mandate something and then not give full disclosure. Way too Big-Brotherish for me 



willa said:


> Mum has Covid. She had another booster few weeks ago & now has Covid for the second time.
> I spoke to her on the phone & she sounded like she has horrid flu


I'm so sorry about your mum. 

This is another thing I'm worried about. I don't think we're being told accurately how effective the vaccine is against the current variants. All we hear is that vaccinated people will get less sick than if they were not vaccinated, but how would they know? Everyone is vaccinated! And this current incarnation of Covid is supposed to make you less sick anyway. 
Everyone I know who has gotten covid was both vaccinated and boostered. 

Between not being given accurate information about the risks of the vaccine and not being given accurate information about how protective the vaccine is, how are we supposed to make an informed decision about whether to get vaccinated or not?


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> This has me worried too.
> I'm concerned how little transparency there has been about side effects of the vaccine. Every other vaccine, the medical professionals and researchers have been very honest about potential issues. But this one they've kept everything very quiet until the evidence was so overwhelming they had to address it.
> I know what they're doing - they want people to get vaccinated so are going to downplay or omit any information that might prevent people from vaccinating, but that's just wrong. You can't mandate something and then not give full disclosure. Way too Big-Brotherish for me
> 
> 
> I'm so sorry about your mum.
> 
> This is another thing I'm worried about. I don't think we're being told accurately how effective the vaccine is against the current variants. All we hear is that vaccinated people will get less sick than if they were not vaccinated, but how would they know? Everyone is vaccinated! And this current incarnation of Covid is supposed to make you less sick anyway.
> Everyone I know who has gotten covid was both vaccinated and boostered.
> 
> Between not being given accurate information about the risks of the vaccine and not being given accurate information about how protective the vaccine is, how are we supposed to make an informed decision about whether to get vaccinated or not?



This is what I don’t understand everyone keeps saying they would have got more ill without the jab but how do you know ? If I kept getting flu after the flu jab I’d probably not bother anymore.


----------



## Siskin

My son and his girlfriend are the only persons I know that have not had the jabs and have had Covid. Both of them were poorly for a while, but not terribly so and fully recovered after it. 
On the other hand I have heard of people that have had a mild dose of Covid and gone back to their jobs as soon as possible and have come down with myocarditis, the reasoning is that they should have rested more, not always possible of course. Ones I do know who suffered this way were vaccinated. So was it not resting enough after Covid or the vaccine plus getting Covid that caused it. So many questions and apparently no answers.


----------



## Cleo38

Siskin said:


> My son and his girlfriend are the only persons I know that have not had the jabs and have had Covid. Both of them were poorly for a while, but not terribly so and fully recovered after it.
> On the other hand I have heard of people that have had a mild dose of Covid and gone back to their jobs as soon as possible and have come down with myocarditis, the reasoning is that they should have rested more, not always possible of course. Ones I do know who suffered this way were vaccinated. So was it not resting enough after Covid or the vaccine plus getting Covid that caused it. So many questions and apparently no answers.


This is what I was suspected as having & they tried to suggest that maybe I had caught Covid but I hadn't, it was only after the booster that mine started & has lasted months. I have never felt so physically exhausted ever. Even when walking my dogs I was having to have a sit down as I kept feeling faint & I was worried that if I passed out the dogs would be distressed. 

I kept being told to 'rest' but that's all I was was doing in some ways but I still did not feeling any better. Luckily I do seem to have gotten over it now & am feeling much better again. I have repeatedly asked for more info on my symptoms & why this has happened & have been met with silence, nobody want's to even try & discuss these but just give me more meds to try to control the symptoms rather than look at the cause. I find this very worrying.


----------



## DogLover1981

I haven't had any problems with the vaccines whatsoever. Even if I did have problems, the vaccines do reduce the risk of getting Long COVID and I'd prefer to avoid that above all else. People tend to act like the COVID-19 isn't serious anymore but it's still seriously disabling some people for many months.  In fact, I have seen speculation that it's contributing to employee shortages here in the states.


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> This is what I was suspected as having & they tried to suggest that maybe I had caught Covid but I hadn't, it was only after the booster that mine started & has lasted months. I have never felt so physically exhausted ever. Even when walking my dogs I was having to have a sit down as I kept feeling faint & I was worried that if I passed out the dogs would be distressed.
> 
> I kept being told to 'rest' but that's all I was was doing in some ways but I still did not feeling any better. Luckily I do seem to have gotten over it now & am feeling much better again. I have repeatedly asked for more info on my symptoms & why this has happened & have been met with silence, nobody want's to even try & discuss these but just give me more meds to try to control the symptoms rather than look at the cause. I find this very worrying.


Just remembered something.
A friend who is fully vaccinated and never had Covid has just recently had a pacemaker fitted. Admittedly he’s 74, but he’s always been a slim fit man who watches what he eats and is largely vegetarian nowadays, does eat meat once or twice a week, but not always. 
I‘m beginning to wonder now if that jab has affected him. Equally it could be totally coincidental given his age. He was keen to have the jab as he has had cancer in the past and found out a couple of weeks ago that he now has prostate cancer. poor bloke, both things came at once more or less


----------



## Jobeth

There was a report on the news saying that nations with high proportions of vaccinated people are expected to see smaller drops in life expectancy compared to other countries. It also said that the scale and magnitude of COVID-19 on mortality confounds claims that it has had no more impact than a flu-like illness. I’ve copied it from here: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/covid-pandemic-caused-changes-global-162900890.html


----------



## Lurcherlad

There are lots of causes of various health conditions that could easily be assumed to be covid related but could have nothing to do with it (or the vaccines).

Many of the so called health risks previously associated with HRT (thanks to a flawed study) were in fact caused by other factors and/or conditions but HRT got the blame.


----------



## O2.0

DogLover1981 said:


> Even if I did have problems, the vaccines do reduce the risk of getting Long COVID


How do we know though? I'm not arguing that the vaccines aren't protective against long covid, I'm just asking how do researchers know this? Where are the unvaccinated people with long covid? 

I think a lot of the claims made about vaccines were not 100% truthful or didn't tell the whole story because those in charge wanted so badly for everyone to get vaccinated so they fudged on some of the information hoping it would encourage more vaccinations. 

There's this attitude among the far left that people in general are stupid and you have to make decisions for them because they're too stupid to make them themselves. And while the premise may be correct, I still don't think it's right to not put out all the information. And frankly I think the masses would have been more comfortable with a more honest approach anyway. 

My more cynical side thinks a lot of the people in charge had stock in Pfizer and wanted to make sure as many people got vaccinated as possible - someone got paid for all those vaccines! 
It will be interesting to see the money trail if it's ever revealed. Some people have made a LOT of money from the pandemic and it's interesting to me how little news coverage that side of the pandemic has gotten.


----------



## Cleo38

DogLover1981 said:


> I haven't had any problems with the vaccines whatsoever. Even if I did have problems, the vaccines do reduce the risk of getting Long COVID and I'd prefer to avoid that above all else. People tend to act like the COVID-19 isn't serious anymore but it's still seriously disabling some people for many months.  In fact, I have seen speculation that it's contributing to employee shortages here in the states.


Tbf you can't say that with certainty as you don't know what problems you might have. In my case I would definitely not have had the vaccine had I realised just how ill I would be (since Jan) The night when I collapsed I honestly thought I was going to die as my headache was so bad that I couldn't see or stand up. I live on my own so this was terrifying.

When I was admitted to hospital I had a brain scan pretty quickly as they were concerned I had a clot. Luckily I didn't but my bloody pressure was dangerously high & needed reducing immediately.

People are being affected because of the vaccine & no-one (it seems) is gathering data on these people or taking their health concerns seriously. This is wrong




Lurcherlad said:


> There are lots of causes of various health conditions that could easily be assumed to be covid related but could have nothing to do with it (or the vaccines).
> 
> Many of the so called health risks previously associated with HRT (thanks to a flawed study) were in fact caused by other factors and/or conditions but HRT got the blame.


Definitely & I agree. I have always said to my doctors that I am quite willing to be proved wrong & consider other factors but I am not willing for the booster vaccine to be dismissed as readily as they appeared to do so initially.

I made notes of the timeline of my symptoms, etc but the doctor wasn't interested initially. Surely all information should be gathered at first then discounted as further investigations continue.

After much consideration I did post about my experience on FB so other people could find it & contact me if they wanted to & approx 25 people did (I had also done similar & spoke to people who had experienced serious side effects). It helped in that I could compare symptoms, get advice of how to be taken seriously, etc.

Nearly every person was like me (not an anti vaxxer) but just wanted to get info on their condition & speak to others who had experienced similar as we weren't getting anywhere with the medical profession


----------



## Calvine

kimthecat said:


> I dont want to put anyone off but I had my booster and late that evening I became freezing cold and my hands were like ice and I couldnt get warm . later I was sick in the early hours.I Am onlu just feeling better. Im glad I didnt have the flu jab as well.
> I have this reaction the first time I had the vaccination but was fine with the others so dont know why this happened .


Hope you are feeling better now @kimthecat. I've had two and that's it for me.


----------



## Calvine

O2.0 said:


> - someone got paid for all those vaccines!


Call me cynical too, but I read that at the height of it all, Pfizer were making something like $1000 a second from the vaccine alone. And of course, GPs were (quite rightly) paid to adminiister the vaccine. Hmmm. Yes, it was definitely a real money spinner.


----------



## rona

After two and a half years and all the risks I took for my friend at the beginning of the pandemic........I have Covid.

Picked up at my local GP surgery!!

Told the Doctor and she said it couldn't have been because everyone is wear a mask in there.
Pfft, I said she should go out and look at front of house, the staff aren't wearing masks and at least half the patients aren't either


----------



## Calvine

Hope you are OK, rona. I took my neighbour to GP last week, notice on their front door saying 'masks required' but reception staff were not wearing them (no screens round them). Patients in waiting area all appeared to be. Take care.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> After two and a half years and all the risks I took for my friend at the beginning of the pandemic........I have Covid.
> 
> Picked up at my local GP surgery!!
> 
> Told the Doctor and she said it couldn't have been because everyone is wear a mask in there.
> Pfft, I said she should go out and look at front of house, the staff aren't wearing masks and at least half the patients aren't either


Hope you aren’t feeling too poorly … get well soon 🙂


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Hope you are OK, rona.





Lurcherlad said:


> Hope you aren’t feeling too poorly … get well soon 🙂


Thank you both.
I seem to have got away with it relatively lightly. A couple of days where all I wanted to do was sleep, and if I didn't move I felt okish............of course I couldn't not do something!!
I feel almost back to normal now, although the test still shows a strong positive


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Thank you both.
> I seem to have got away with it relatively lightly. A couple of days where all I wanted to do was sleep, and if I didn't move I felt okish............of course I couldn't not do something!!
> I feel almost back to normal now, although the test still shows a strong positive


Took about 10 days to get a clear test for me.


----------



## O2.0

rona said:


> I feel almost back to normal now, although the test still shows a strong positive


Glad you're feeling better!


----------



## Calvine

rona said:


> Thank you both.
> I seem to have got away with it relatively lightly. A couple of days where all I wanted to do was sleep, and if I didn't move I felt okish............of course I couldn't not do something!!
> I feel almost back to normal now, although the test still shows a strong positive


Out of interest, rona, how many jabs have you had? My son and wife both had it a couple of months back; she was ok after a couple of days; son was positive for about ten days and felt quite rough. Glad you are getting back to normal.


----------



## rona

Calvine said:


> Out of interest, rona, how many jabs have you had? My son and wife both had it a couple of months back; she was ok after a couple of days; son was positive for about ten days and felt quite rough. Glad you are getting back to normal.


I've had 3, last one was June.
They keep trying to get me to have the next one, but I'm not sure I will, and even if I did I would wait until after Xmas.
I feel a little worse today but not too bad at all


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just phone our GP about a home visit for our covid and flu jabs, she phone back and let us know when they will come.


----------



## Happy Paws2

OH had a text this morning saying he'd been In touch with who has been positive for covid. So we have both done a test this morning both of us negative.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> OH had a text this morning saying he'd been In touch with who has been positive for covid. So we have both done a test this morning both of us negative.


It’s a hoax … I had the same text.

I don’t have the Covid app switched on so there is no way I could have been identified as being in close contact.

The text has a link which would probably mean putting in personal or bank details….

I just ignored and deleted it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Lurcherlad said:


> *It’s a hoax *… I had the same text.
> 
> I don’t have the Covid app switched on so there is no way I could have been identified as being in close contact.
> 
> The text has a link which would probably mean putting in personal or bank details….
> 
> I just ignored and deleted it.



I don't think it's was the same, there wasn't a link and it didn't ask for any details.


----------



## rona

Lurcherlad said:


> It’s a hoax … I had the same text.
> 
> I don’t have the Covid app switched on so there is no way I could have been identified as being in close contact.
> 
> The text has a link which would probably mean putting in personal or bank details….
> 
> I just ignored and deleted it.





Happy Paws2 said:


> I don't think it's was the same, there wasn't a link and it didn't ask for any details.


I believe the NHS covid App is still active




__





NHS COVID-19 app


The NHS COVID-19 app is a quick and easy way to get the latest advice and find out if you may have been exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).




www.gov.uk


----------



## SbanR

Lurcherlad said:


> It’s a hoax … I had the same text.
> 
> I don’t have the Covid app switched on so there is no way I could have been identified as being in close contact.
> 
> The text has a link which would probably mean putting in personal or bank details….
> 
> I just ignored and deleted it.


Next time forward the text to 7726. This will enable network providers to investigate scam numbers.


----------



## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> I believe the NHS covid App is still active
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NHS COVID-19 app
> 
> 
> The NHS COVID-19 app is a quick and easy way to get the latest advice and find out if you may have been exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.uk


Not on my phone now though, so not sure how my presence would be detected anywhere.


----------



## Deguslave

I've never signed up for the app and I've had two messages this week saying I've been in contact with a covid positive person. I don't even have my location enabled. Mine were definitely a scam, I just deleted them.


----------



## Jaf

I took my neighbour, in Spain, for her 4th vaccinations on Thursday (covid and flu at same time, different arms). The last 3 were done at a central town, basically a car park, all queuing in our cars. This time was at the tiny local drs surgery, all on foot. It was utter bedlam! All these old people stood around in a crowd. The ambulance with the meds and staff had to get cars to move so they could park! They were late and people got a bit frustrated. Normally the queuing system works wonderfully here, you simply ask "who's last" but can't do that with 200 people! Once things got going it was fine, all done in a couple of hours, but not great for infection control.


----------



## Happy Paws2

The nurse is coming to us on Monday to give us both our Covid and Flu jabs.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Happy Paws2 said:


> The nurse is coming to us on Monday to give us both our Covid and Flu jabs.


We have our flu jabs booked for tomorrow 👍🏻


----------



## Happy Paws2

The nurse has just come and given us our flu and covid jabs. I'll feel much safer going out now.


----------



## kimthecat

Boris having his Covid booster at Hillingdon Hospital . Shame they didnt stick it in his bum.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> Boris having his Covid booster at Hillingdon Hospital . Shame they didnt stick it in his bum.
> 
> 
> View attachment 579353



With a blunt needle.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Well yesterday we had our jabs and this morning I feel as I've been tramped by elephant my head pounding. 
OH feels fine.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Well yesterday we had our jabs and this morning I feel as I've been tramped by elephant my head pounding.
> OH feels fine.


 Quite a few people who were fine with the first vax seem to be having discomfort with the next lot. You had the flu jab too, I seem to recall you saying. Glad your husband is OK and hope you soon feel better.


----------



## Kaily

In my local Sainburys today a young shop assistant on the produce was clearly full of a cold. A colleague asked him if he had a cold and he told her he had coronavirus and not to tell anyone


----------



## Calvine

Kaily said:


> In my local Sainburys today a young shop assistant on the produce was clearly full of a cold. A colleague asked him if he had a cold and he told her he had coronavirus and not to tell anyone


That's totally irresponsible; was he wearing a mask . . . probably not.


----------



## Kaily

No.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Quite a few people who were fine with the first vax seem to be having discomfort with the next lot. You had the flu jab too, I seem to recall you saying. Glad your husband is OK and hope you soon feel better.



I've really felt rough today and this afternoon my arms ache, It's a good job OH is now able to help me and has not had any side-effects.


----------



## mrs phas

Kaily said:


> In my local Sainburys today a young shop assistant on the produce was clearly full of a cold. A colleague asked him if he had a cold and he told her he had coronavirus and not to tell anyone


Did you report what you'd overheard to a manager? 
Covid being spread over produce, which many still don't wash before eating, especially fruit, is very worrying


----------



## Calvine

Kaily said:


> In my local Sainburys today a young shop assistant on the produce was clearly full of a cold. A colleague asked him if he had a cold and he told her he had coronavirus and not to tell anyone


Just a thought. You say he was a young guy; do you think maybe he was just being a Jack the Lad and thought it was a bit of fun (hahaha) to say he had the dreaded lurgy? I can't imagine many young guys bothering to test themselves. I only ever sent off for one pack of seven (??) tests and still have five of them left. Why would you test yourself if you were then going to go to work and infect people if the result was positive? Saying which, of course, there's nowt as queer as folk.


----------



## Kaily

mrs phas said:


> Did you report what you'd overheard to a manager?
> Covid being spread over produce, which many still don't wash before eating, especially fruit, is very worrying


No I didn't. I did think about it but decided it was none of my business. The state he was in he should of been sent home anyway so management clearly weren't concerned plus there is no legal requirement now just a moral one. 


Calvine said:


> Just a thought. You say he was a young guy; do you think maybe he was just being a Jack the Lad and thought it was a bit of fun (hahaha) to say he had the dreaded lurgy? I can't imagine many young guys bothering to test themselves. I only ever sent off for one pack of seven (??) tests and still have five of them left. Why would you test yourself if you were then going to go to work and infect people if the result was positive? Saying which, of course, there's nowt as queer as folk.


I believe he was being serious plus he looked ill, that is why he caught my eye. If he didn't really test it is still just as likely to be covid as he wouldn't know it wasn't. The colleague was not impressed.


----------



## Calvine

Kaily said:


> The colleague was not impressed


Maybe she will say something (hopefully).


----------



## O2.0

There are going to be people who have no choice but to go to work sick - covid or anything else. It's a luxury not everyone has to be able to say "I'm sick, I'm not coming in to work today."
Not everyone has sick days they get paid for, not everyone has understanding bosses, not everyone can afford the loss of wages, and let's face it, covid is not the danger it was 2 years ago so many people don't see the point in staying home.

There will be those who have a very mild case and might mistake it for allergies or something and continue to go to work or school not even realizing there's anything wrong.

If this pandemic has taught us anything it's that you can't depend on others'behavior to prevent you getting sick. We only have control over our own behavior.


----------



## StormyThai

There is no legal limit for paid sick days in the UK so there really is no excuse not to phone in sick when you have a viral infection (covid or otherwise) when you work in a supermarket with food.


----------



## Boxer123

m


StormyThai said:


> There is no legal limit for paid sick days in the UK so there really is no excuse not to phone in sick when you have a viral infection (covid or otherwise) when you work in a supermarket with food.


? I’ve worked in loads of places where you get no sick pay at all. My current job has great sickness benefits but it’s not infinite. 

Also a lot of places have a policy of so many sick days or periods you get referred to HR and have to sign a plan saying you will reduce your sick days. This can lead to discipline procedures hence why you go to work with covid.


----------



## StormyThai

Sainsburys and Tescos you get 6 months sick benefits and then it moves over to SSP.
When I was working at Ladbrokes I has 12 months full pay company sick pay and then SSP.
When I worked at Tescos (many moons ago now) you had to have a back to work interview after a sick period which was just a quick chat. Disciplinary procedures only came into play if you took multiple days with no sick note.

Unfortunately I have first hand experience with long term sick pay.
When you (general you) work in a supermarket staying home for 5 days when you have a viral infection is no real hardship and won't prompt a meeting with HR unless you (general you) have a pretty poor absence record already.

I'm not suggesting every job by the way...which is why I mention supermarkets in all my posts


----------



## lullabydream

I think many companies use the Bradford scale for sick leave to monitor things. So a couple of days off her and there to recover from a virus ends up being worse than going off sick and having a big chunk of time off work.

It's been the last 10 years I would say that my OH has got sick pay from companies. SSP would be available but the only time my OH has had time off work was mainly for viruses and d/v bugs so SSP would never have kicked in by then. Luckily he could often take his time off sick as holiday payments as this was the best thing to do to keep us all afloat with small children. Hes carried on working many a time when ill because like others say we couldn't afford not to.


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## Mrs Funkin

Covid jab done this morning. Another Pfizer for me, it was very well organised and the nurse who gave me the jab was excellent. My arm is starting to go a bit weird now but the actual injection site isn't tender or anything yet. The GP who did the "pre-screening" questionnaire was lovely too. I wonder if that surgery would accept me as a patient...!


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## Kaily

I worked in a Hotel for 15 years and never received any sick pay. Yes I went in when I should of been home but as a divorced single parent I had no choice. It was really tough!
The worst times were when my daughter was ill and needed to be home from school. Sometimes if she wasn't too poorly I would have to take her to work with me, other times I would lose money I could ill afford. It was all so stressful.
So in hindsight I do understand that people need to work with the virus but the boy I posted about really was streaming


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## Linda Weasel

lullabydream said:


> I think many companies use the Bradford scale for sick leave to monitor things. So a couple of days off her and there to recover from a virus ends up being worse than going off sick and having a big chunk of time off work.
> 
> It's been the last 10 years I would say that my OH has got sick pay from companies. SSP would be available but the only time my OH has had time off work was mainly for viruses and d/v bugs so SSP would never have kicked in by then. Luckily he could often take his time off sick as holiday payments as this was the best thing to do to keep us all afloat with small children. Hes carried on working many a time when ill because like others say we couldn't afford not to.


We have the Bradford Index at work. It doesn’t work in anybody’s favour because it’s designed to flag up people who have a number of short periods, or odd days, off sick. So , whereas in the past I would just take the worst one or two days off if I was ill (and go back as soon as I could) now I make sure to take a longer period even if I don’t need it, just so as not to trigger the Index.

Also, we’ve been told that if we take time off for COVID we won’t get paid…..


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## Boxer123

Linda Weasel said:


> We have the Bradford Index at work. It doesn’t work in anybody’s favour because it’s designed to flag up people who have a number of short periods, or odd days, off sick. So , whereas in the past I would just take the worst one or two days off if I was ill (and go back as soon as I could) now I make sure to take a longer period even if I don’t need it, just so as not to trigger the Index.
> 
> Also, we’ve been told that if we take time off for COVID we won’t get paid…..


I used to work somewhere that used this. If you phoned in sick you could literally hear the manager throw the phone. When you got back you had a back to work interrogation. People would end up getting sick notes and taking longer off because they were terrified and wanted back up from the doctor.


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## Kaily

Boxer123 said:


> I used to work somewhere that used this. If you phoned in sick you could literally hear the manager throw the phone. When you got back you had a back to work interrogation. People would end up getting sick notes and taking longer off because they were terrified and wanted back up from the doctor.


I guess it mean't the manager actually had to do some real work.


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## Mrs Funkin

We recently changed from Bradford to something else, I’ve no idea what though as I’m hardly ever off. I had a week off with shingles last year though, as shingles and pregnant women don’t mix well.

Where my mother worked most of her life, they changed the rules to say you couldn’t only be off sick for one day. It massively reduced the sick rates as people who just phoned in for a day without actually being ill stopped doing it, as it had more of an impact on their pay (only SSP). It was quite an interesting policy.


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## kimthecat

I wonder how long we will have telephone appointments with doctors and how long hospital staff will wear masks for ? Neither is good for me , My Oh has to take the phone calls for me and come with me to appointments so I can understand what is being said .


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## Mrs Funkin

kimthecat said:


> I wonder how long we will have telephone appointments with doctors and how long hospital staff will wear masks for ? Neither is good for me , My Oh has to take the phone calls for me and come with me to appointments so I can understand what is being said .


Kim, can you not ask hospital staff to wear a visor if you lip-read? We've had a couple of deaf ladies and I've worn a visor instead of a mask. Of course, it might not be that simple for you, so I apologise if I'm over-simplifying things. You would also be absolutely within your rights to ask for a face to face doctors appointment, have you explained the situation to them? I do hope that you can resolve the issues.


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## Jobeth

I used a transparent mask rather than a visors/clear mask. They provided the same level of protection and didn’t make any difference to your voice. Annoyingly I haven’t got the package anymore but they were similar to this: 







You could write to the GP/consultant and ask what reasonable adjustments they are going to put in place so that there is no disability discrimination. PALS could also help.

I’m surprised they are still wearing them though.


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## kimthecat

Mrs Funkin said:


> Kim, can you not ask hospital staff to wear a visor if you lip-read? We've had a couple of deaf ladies and I've worn a visor instead of a mask. Of course, it might not be that simple for you, so I apologise if I'm over-simplifying things. You would also be absolutely within your rights to ask for a face to face doctors appointment, have you explained the situation to them? I do hope that you can resolve the issues.



Good point and a thumbs up for being thoughtful enough to wear a visor. BTW You don't have to apologise for anything  I used to be hearing but have been losing it slowly over the years ,its another autoimmune disease  .
I'm not a great lip reader but it does give shape to the sounds.
Ive been to different hospitals for different things over the past couple of years and Ive only ever seen one person wear a visor and that was the receptionist , though to be fair , some have pulled down their mask to speak to me . I dont even know if they have any . My audiotologist , I saw a couple of weeks ago , wore a mask and she didnt want to remove it , you think she'd understand and wear a clear mask , However I suppose , if they feel vulnerable then I wouldn't want them to feel at risk.
Im lucky that my OH can come with me as back up. When ever and where ever I go , that's the first thing I say to the receptionist and doctor . Im deaf , this is my partner etc I am non PC and call myself The Deaf One .

My GP surgery and my RA consultant , they know the situation but I think perhaps whoever books the appointments doesn't check . This is quite common and deaf people find this really annoying ,


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## Mrs Funkin

We don’t have the clear masks in my department, never have had. I’m surprised audiology don’t have them though! We do have visors though and offer them to people who cannot wear/decline to wear a mask. I’ve no idea how long we will wear masks for in the hospital, we tried without them for about a fortnight but it was as the Covid numbers were going back up, so they were reinstated (I never took mine off though!). However on the plus side, they keep your nose warm in the cold weather..!


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## Siskin

I was at the Birmingham hospital I attend for an oncology check up and there was a lady on the door handing out masks, but there was no rule in place telling people to wear them as there has been before sice mask wearing was introduced. Quite a number of patients nd members of staff were not wearing masks. I wore mine for the X-ray and whilst I was sitting waiting to see the doctor, but when I went in to his room he wasn’t wearing a mask nor were the nurses in that area. I took my mask off when talking to the doctor only putting it back on after I had seen him


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## rona

One of our local GP surgeries has more or less closed up because of covid


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## Deguslave

I still wear a mask, especially for medical appointments. At this time of year, I would be wearing a scarf wrapped around my nose and mouth anyway when I'm outside, I see no difference in wearing a mask.


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## kimthecat

For got to add that instead of phoning during lockdown , I asked my rheumy if we could email which we did and also I could attach photos of my joints,


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## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I was at the Birmingham hospital I attend for an oncology check up and there was a lady on the door handing out masks, but there was no rule in place telling people to wear them as there has been before sice mask wearing was introduced. Quite a number of patients nd members of staff were not wearing masks. I wore mine for the X-ray and whilst I was sitting waiting to see the doctor, but when I went in to his room he wasn’t wearing a mask nor were the nurses in that area. I took my mask off when talking to the doctor only putting it back on after I had seen him


I have an appointment with my oncologist in April and I assume its for signing me off so to speak . Im bit surprised as its by phone. Ive not seen her for nearly 5 years. though Ive had yearly mamos.


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## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I have an appointment with my oncologist in April and I assume its for signing me off so to speak . Im bit surprised as its by phone. Ive not seen her for nearly 5 years. though Ive had yearly mamos.


I can only guess everything is fine and you remain clear which is wonderful for you. Will that be after 10 years of checkups?
I‘ve moved on to 6 monthly check ups for the next 3 years and then it will be annual until the tenth anniversary.


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## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> I can only guess everything is fine and you remain clear which is wonderful for you. Will that be after 10 years of checkups?
> I‘ve moved on to 6 monthly check ups for the next 3 years and then it will be annual until the tenth anniversary.


Yes , it is good news though I have one more more mammogram in Feb. I had a mastectomy in April 2018 and there was a couple of months umming and ahhing deciding on treatment and then I was given Tamoxifen for 5 years ( as I was over 60 ) Ive not seen the onco at all since then ( nearly 5 years )though I was told to get back in touch if I was worried . She was lovely , I really liked her .

I think it is different for different cancers , that's good you only have to go every 6 months. The time soon passes.


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