# I need a golden retriever puppy for free please



## Nesa

hello everyone

I hope someone can help point me in the right direction

My 4year old daughter is going through a very difficult time and wants a puppy. So far she liked the pictures of golden retrievers and i have read that their calm presence is therapeutic

It needs to be a puppy as thats all she wants

I am hoping a dog will help her heal and there is no way i can pay for one as they are too expensive

I checked shelters and they dont have any puppies and i definitely dont want a dog with issues as this dog needs to be a source of peace to her

Please do you know anyone that will donate a puppy to us i can only pay £100

Please help asap as nothing is working for my daughter anymore and this is our only hope

We live in London but i could collect in the surrounding areas

I live alone with my daughter

Thank you


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## Guest

Hi, I'm really sorry your daughter is having a rough time, but I don't think getting a puppy right now when things are so rough is the best idea.

Dogs are a lifetime commitment, and puppies are very hard work. 

Are there other resources you can use to get your daughter the help she clearly needs?


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## Dr Pepper

TROLL


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## Nesa

ouesi said:


> Hi, I'm really sorry your daughter is having a rough time, but I don't think getting a puppy right now when things are so rough is the best idea.
> 
> Dogs are a lifetime commitment, and puppies are very hard work.
> 
> Are there other resources you can use to get your daughter the help she clearly needs?


She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.

She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion

I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her

We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore


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## Nesa

Dr Pepper said:


> TROLL


I dont want to even reapond to this at the same time please do not derail this very serious thread


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## Guest

Nesa said:


> She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.
> 
> She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion
> 
> I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her
> 
> We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore


Have you had a dog before? A puppy?
Do you understand the cost and commitment? 
The initial cost whether purchase fee or adoption fee through a rescue is the least of what you will pay for a dog for the life of the dog. You have to buy food, supplies, wormers, medications, vet fees, training expenses, other professionals like groomers or dog walkers should you need one, extra deposits for renting... The list goes on.

I honestly can't see a responsible rescue or breeder being willing to "give" you a dog with the reasons you have given, sorry.


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## Nesa

I never had a dog before but i can afford the exra food and i intend to get insurance to pay for whatever medical needs

Isnt this enough to cover everythig?

I intend to walk the dog ourselves and brush wash etc


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## Rafa

I feel very sorry for the difficulties you are having but I would be a little concerned that your Daughter regards a puppy pretty much as she would a toy she had seen.

Children can often be desperate to have something and then lose interest very quickly, once the novelty has worn off. After all, the puppy won't be small and cuddly for very long.

Golden Retrievers are a large, heavy shedding Breed and need a lot of exercise.

Any dog, as Ouesi has pointed out, is quite some financial commitment, and that's assuming they don't suffer health problems, when Vet bills can mount up quite alarmingly.

If you cannot afford the price of a pup, have you thought about the future and the expense that will bring?


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## Nesa

Why is our reason worse than someone else? In fact it is more essential than anyone else

The dog will obviously be loved and cared for ao whats thw issue or are you just bitter


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## Rafa

Nesa said:


> Why is our reason worse than someone else? In fact it is more essential than anyone else
> 
> The dog will obviously be loved and cared for ao whats thw issue or are you just bitter


Are you asking me if I am bitter?

Certainly not, why would I be?


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## Nesa

Sweety said:


> I feel very sorry for the difficulties you are having but I would be a little concerned that your Daughter regards a puppy pretty much as she would a toy she had seen.
> 
> Children can often be desperate to have something and then lose interest very quickly, once the novelty has worn off. After all, the puppy won't be small and cuddly for very long.
> 
> Golden Retrievers are a large, heavy shedding Breed and need a lot of exercise.
> 
> Any dog, as Ouesi has pointed out, is quite some financial commitment, and that's assuming they don't suffer health problems, when Vet bills can mount up quite alarmingly.
> 
> If you cannot afford the price of a pup, have you thought about the future and the expense that will bring?


If you get insurance max £20 per month doesnt that cover everything?

The shedding is an issue but ill have to deal with it

The novetly may ware off but they will still be a member o the family and it wont make our lives worse by beingn in it


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## Nesa

Sweety said:


> Are you asking me if I am bitter?
> 
> Certainly not, why would I be?


Not you. I said ouesi called me a troll for no reason after my difficult post and then said my reasons were not good enough


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## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.
> 
> She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. *The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion*
> 
> I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her
> 
> We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore


Puppies are also very hard work, they play rough, bite, chew, pee where you don't want them to & unless they have good foundation training they will grow into antisocial big dogs.

As your daughter is only 4 you will be the one responsible for everything, including making sure the puppy becomes a well rounded adult & this takes a lot of time & effort.

And if you have very little money what will you do if the puppy gets ill, say, the day after he/she arrives- what will you do about vet costs?

A decently bred golden retriever, from someone who is breeding for health & temperament (I've heard that some lines have resource guarding issues) isn't going to be gifted to you, it's just not going to happen.

Nor should it, a good breeder should be thinking of their pups' welfare first & foremost.

I'm sorry you are going through a difficult time, but I think, especially in light of the fact you say have never had a dog before you are making a huge mistake which could impact negatively on your daughter, you & of course, the dog.

Please reconsider.


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## Rafa

Nesa said:


> If you get insurance max £20 per month doesnt that cover everything?
> 
> The shedding is an issue but ill have to deal with it
> 
> The novetly may ware off but they will still be a member o the family and it wont make our lives worse by beingn in it


The only type of insurance which will cover all is Lifetime Cover, which is expensive and not £20.00. per month.

Insurance will not cover, wormers, vaccinations, boosters, flea treatments, etc., only accident or illness.


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## Smuge

Dr Pepper said:


> TROLL


It certainly sets off a lot of alarm bells


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## elmthesofties

For £100, you won't be getting a well bred and raised dog. If you find a GR puppy for that cost, chances are it'll have been bred with so little concern that they'll be highly likely to develop chronic health or behavioural issues.

A puppy will not be a 'calm presence'. Puppies won't be house trained, so they will pee and poo inside. They will bite you to get you to play with them. They will need extensive socialisation. They will need a huge amount of work put in over a long period of time before you can do simple things like let them off lead or leave them alone for any period of time.

If your daughter finds the presence of animals therapeutic, there are many specially trained therapy animals out there. If you spoke to them, I'm sure they'd be happy to arrange something.


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## Dr Pepper

Once your four year old has a puppy she'll want a pony, and then to be a princess. Then she'll discover boys and not care about anything else. That's my advice IF you are not a troll.


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## leashedForLife

.
.
If Ur child wants a pet, i'd suggest beginning with something smaller, shorter-lived, & far-less demanding than any puppy.
.
A Guinea-pig is an affectionate medium-sized pet, they are fairly quiet, do not require walks to void, don't demand housetraining, intensive socialization [to living beings], extensive habituation [to everything else - traffic, vet's waiting rm, elevators...], & don't need to be taught specific cued-behaviors.
.
That said, Guinea-pigs *can be* trained - as any animal can be - by using a marker with rewards, & keeping training sessions short, focussed on one desired behavior. Marker-training is easy & fun; at 4-YO, Ur girl is a bit too young to help, but she can be marker-training by the time she's 7 to 8-YO, assuming her intellectual development is around normal & her hand / eye co-ordination is average. 
.
For now, U - not the child - will be responsible for all care, feeding, housing, clean-up of the litter, etc. // A pup is a black hole for time, & Ur girl needs more attn, at the moment, than a pup who will suck every free moment up, & then some.
.
.
.


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## Nesa

Dr Pepper said:


> Once your four year old has a puppy she'll want a pony, and then to be a princess. Then she'll discover boys and not care about anything else. That's my advice IF you are not a troll.


Oh plese dont reapond to my thread. Thats so disrespectful to my girl. Just go away

A girl can have many interests and talking about boys is so inapropriate here


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## Guest

Nesa said:


> Not you. I said ouesi called me a troll for no reason after my difficult post and then said my reasons were not good enough


Excuse me?
I did not call you a troll, I expressed sympathy for your situation and gave you valid answers.


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## Nesa

elmthesofties said:


> For £100, you won't be getting a well bred and raised dog. If you find a GR puppy for that cost, chances are it'll have been bred with so little concern that they'll be highly likely to develop chronic health or behavioural issues.
> 
> A puppy will not be a 'calm presence'. Puppies won't be house trained, so they will pee and poo inside. They will bite you to get you to play with them. They will need extensive socialisation. They will need a huge amount of work put in over a long period of time before you can do simple things like let them off lead or leave them alone for any period of time.
> 
> If your daughter finds the presence of animals therapeutic, there are many specially trained therapy animals out there. If you spoke to them, I'm sure they'd be happy to arrange something.


I think this is a good idea i would be willing to try about therapeutic dogs. Do they let you have them for a few hours or how does it work

I appreciate the answers about the hard work required however I am not sure if what is hard to you is hard for me too. After all i have had to have tremendous amount of patience raising my girl and i will still have to have. So if i have to find an activity to do with her it will require imagination and patience and that activity can be involving a puppy

I am curious about how hard or often a puppy bites?

A cat for example bites you lightly sometimes during play it doesnt hurt.

Is the training just consistent common sense like with children? I am assuming so as I doubt all these dog owners go to a dog training school

I appreciate these specific answers but please dont exagerate meaning well but lets just be realistic.


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## Rafa

OP. I suggest you go back and re-read the thread.

Ouesi did not call you a troll - she tried to help.


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## Dr Pepper

Nesa said:


> Oh plese dont reapond to my thread. Thats so disrespectful to my girl. Just go away
> 
> A girl can have many interests and talking about boys is so inapropriate here


IF you are genuine as a parent to two girls now in their mid twenties I can tell you a puppy isn't the answer to anything. She'll lose interest in weeks and you're stuck with puppy and spoilt daughter.


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## Nesa

ouesi said:


> Excuse me?
> I did not call you a troll, I expressed sympathy for your situation and gave you valid answers.


Sorry dr pepper called me a troll but i still dont like how you talked about my girl


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## Dr Pepper

ouesi said:


> Excuse me?
> I did not call you a troll, I expressed sympathy for your situation and gave you valid answers.


No, I did and kinda still stand by it as I'd rather it was a troll than someone being serious.


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## Nesa

Dr Pepper said:


> IF you are genuine as a parent to two girls now in their mid twenties I can tell you a puppy isn't the answer to anything. She'll lose interest in weeks and your stuck with puppy and spoilt daughter.


I wouldnt normally give in to her wish for a puppy. But as explained this is a need as she has been theouugh a lot and is limited to only few children she can see so she is alone most of the time with me


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## Nesa

Dr Pepper said:


> No, I did and kinda still stand by it as I'd rather it was a troll than someone being serious.


so wishing someone is not having a bad time can be solved by believing they are a troll?

Am i misunderstanding. How about thinking how these pointless replies are helping someone in my situation. If you have nothing good to say ...


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## Dr Pepper

A puppy is for fifteen years, not the next few weeks. She'll be twenty then, if that helps perspective wise.


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## labradrk

So the answer to your 4 year olds problems are to buy her a puppy because that is what she wants? Yes because I'm sure a 4 year old will be getting up in the middle of the night, clearing up all the wee and poo that it will do all over your floors, take it for walks, train it, pay all the costs etc....

By the way no puppy is therapeutic, you are more likely to be needing therapy after welcoming a puppy into your home. :Hilarious

This must be a wind up.


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## Rafa

Nesa said:


> I think this is a good idea i would be willing to try about therapeutic dogs. Do they let you have them for a few hours or how does it work
> 
> I appreciate the answers about the hard work required however I am not sure if what is hard to you is hard for me too. After all i have had to have tremendous amount of patience raising my girl and i will still have to have. So if i have to find an activity to do with her it will require imagination and patience and that activity can be involving a puppy
> 
> I am curious about how hard or often a puppy bites?
> 
> A cat for example bites you lightly sometimes during play it doesnt hurt.
> 
> Is the training just consistent common sense like with children? I am assuming so as I doubt all these dog owners go to a dog training school
> 
> I appreciate these specific answers but please dont exagerate meaning well but lets just be realistic.


Between the age of eight weeks and around sixteen weeks, puppies bite pretty much all the time. It can be very wearing and can be one of the hardest phases to deal with.

Pups also tend to be very hyper and don't forget, you won't be able to walk your pup until all vaccinations are complete.

I would be concerned that, in addition to the time and patience you have to show your Daughter on a daily basis, you will find yourself in a worse position, having a highly energetic, unhousetrained, demanding puppy on your hands.

Many pups, coming into their new home, don't sleep at night and most will require taking outside once or twice during the night for a toilet break.

Nobody is trying to paint a black picture of puppy ownership , just a realistic one, and many find themselves completely overwhelmed.

There is the point too that it is extremely unlikely anyone would sell you a well bred pup for £100. Apart from anything else, if you approach a good Breeder with the news that you can't afford to buy the pup, the first assumption and not an unreasonable one, will be that you can't afford to care for the pup properly, in any eventuality.


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## Nesa

So how much per month is an insurance that covers absolutely everything worming etc?

I can imagine someone who can sell a puppy for £1000 will not give it to me. But sometimes a puppy can have a nice personality even if they didnt have special parents

And as i said if someone is willing and able to help donate a pup then that would be great

Or someone might know a shelter that rescued some pups

If i was in a good sotuation i would help someone if i could. I have done in the past


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## Mirandashell

I think you should definitely get in touch with people who have therapeutic dogs. Have a chat with them and see where that goes. 

I do understand what you mean about a puppy helping your daughter with her problems but they are immense work and responsibility. An older dog may be much better, especially one who is known to be calm and comfortable around children. One problem with a puppy is you never know what the dog is going to be like. Training can mould a dog's temperament but that takes time and committment. 

If a dog is really going to help your daughter, putting in the research now will really help.


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## leashedForLife

Nesa said,

_I am curious about how hard or often a puppy bites?
A cat, for example, *bites you lightly sometimes,* during play -- it doesn't hurt.
_________________________________
.
.
Pups will bite every few seconds, when they are excited, frustrated, or bored. If they have poor bite-inhibition [a learned concept], they bite HARD & break the skin, b/c their milk teeth are needle-sharp, much sharper than their later adult-teeth. It takes very little pressure for needlelike milk-teeth to puncture human skin - & children have thinner skin with softer tissue under the epidermis, a child will have broken skin from a bite that would not bruise an adult human.
.
Cats BTW are notorious for *serious infections caused by a single tooth puncture, or a single claw -* dogs use their mouths the way humans do hands; dogs will mouth gently & have exquisite control over their bite-pressure. // Cats, when they bite ppl, are not often playing - they are more often over-excited, or defensive. They bite OTHER CATS during rough play, & often a cat play-bout can segue into a cat-fight when one cat is bitten or scratched too hard, & retaliates.
.
_._
Nesa said,
_
*Is [puppy training] just consistent common sense...?* I am assuming so, as I doubt all these dog owners go to a dog training school.
..._
___________________________________
.
.
If puppy-training was "consistent common sense", adult humans would not have spent the last century "rubbing the pup's nose in their waste" to HOUSE-TRAIN them.
 Common sense is not common. 
.
Just as one tidbit: a pup should meet ONE HUNDRED different friendly-strangers, who differ from one another AND from the pup's owner / family, between 8-WO when Pup leaves the breeder, & 12-WO, a month later. That's 25 persons each week - who should look, smell, act, sound, etc, different from the pup's familiar humans, & from one another.
They should be different ages, sizes, colors of skin, habits of dress, language, manner [loud vs quiet, active vs sessile...], with & without accessories - Zimmer frame, wheelchair, hats, sunglasses, drapey scarves, dangling sash, jingling keys, clanking toolbelt,,,
.
Do U begin to grasp the breadth of work, in rearing one pup?
.
.
.


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## Calvine

Nesa said:


> are you just bitter


I don't believe anyone is bitter (indeed why would anyone be ''bitter'' about your posts?); just trying to advise.


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## Rafa

Nesa said:


> So how much per month is an insurance that covers absolutely everything worming etc?
> 
> I can imagine someone who can sell a puppy for £1000 will not give it to me. But sometimes a puppy can have a nice personality even if they didnt have special parents
> 
> And as i said if someone is willing and able to help donate a pup then that would be great
> 
> Or someone might know a shelter that rescued some pups
> 
> If i was in a good sotuation i would help someone if i could. I have done in the past


I'm afraid no insurance will cover routine treatments, such as vaccinations, worming, flea/tick treatments.

You will have to have your pup vaccinated as soon as you get him and that will cost you around £60. He will also need to be wormed once a month until he's six months of age.


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## Nesa

Sweety said:


> Between the age of eight weeks and around sixteen weeks, puppies bite pretty much all the time. It can be very wearing and can be one of the hardest phases to deal with.
> 
> Pups also tend to be very hyper and don't forget, you won't be able to walk your pup until all vaccinations are complete.
> 
> I would be concerned that, in addition to the time and patience you have to show your Daughter on a daily basis, you will find yourself in a worse position, having a highly energetic, unhousetrained, demanding puppy on your hands.
> 
> Many pups, coming into their new home, don't sleep at night and most will require taking outside once or twice during the night for a toilet break.
> 
> Nobody is trying to paint a black picture of puppy ownership , just a realistic one, and many find themselves completely overwhelmed.
> 
> There is the point too that it is extremely unlikely anyone would sell you a well bred pup for £100. Apart from anything else, if you approach a good Breeder with the news that you can't afford to buy the pup, the first assumption and not an unreasonable one, will be that you can't afford to care for the pup properly, in any eventuality.


I reallybappreciate this answer as it helps me imagine how it will be

In our case my daughter has had sever anger issues since age of three she is 4.5yo now. I let her lash out as i belives it was better to get it all out. But i am not sure if this was good. As after all was said and done she is too ashamed of her behaviour and now we have to deal with other issues and anger still happens sometimes but its not hostile

I imagined being fully involved with the training of the puppy might be a good thing as it will take attention away from her as too much attention was placed on her and its not good

She is compassionate and would be an opportunity to see another one going through ignorance and training and would see that its not embarrasing


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## Rafa

Nesa said:


> I reallybappreciate this answer as it helps me imagine how it will be
> 
> In our case my daughter has had sever anger issues since age of three she is 4.5yo now. I let her lash out as i belives it was better to get it all out. But i am not sure if this was good. As after all was said and done she is too ashamed of her behaviour and now we have to deal with other issues and anger still happens sometimes but its not hostile
> 
> I imagined being fully involved with the training of the puppy might be a good thing as it will take attention away from her as too much attention was placed on her and its not good
> 
> She is compassionate and would be an opportunity to see another one going through ignorance and training and would see that its not embarrasing


Of course, your Daughter, at four years old, cannot really imagine how a pup will behave.

She may be visualising something small, fluffy and cuddly, which she can hold and play with.

Unfortunately, the majority of pups don't want to be held or restrained.  They're very like a hyperactive child, busy and inquisitive and want to be running round, exploring and playing.

Would you be concerned that your Daughter may become frustrated towards the puppy and become angry?


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## Guest

Nesa said:


> Sorry dr pepper called me a troll but i still dont like how you talked about my girl


Okay, I did not say a single thing about your child other than to express sympathy that she is going through a hard time.

Are you deliberately trying to misconstrue posts so that you can take offense?

One of my dogs is a therapy dog. One of the places he visits is a psychiatric hospital for teens. Some of the patients are outpatients and love his visits too.
I also work with therapeutic equine programs.

I'm sure there is a program somewhere where your child can get the benefit of bonding with an animal without risking putting that animal in an unsuitable home, or getting a dog from an unscrupulous source.


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## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> I wouldnt normally give in to her wish for a puppy. But as explained this is a need as she has been theouugh a lot and is limited to only few children she can see so she is alone most of the time with me


No, it isn't a need, it's a want & it could very well go wrong, a 4 year old child doesn't _need_ a puppy.

Giving in to the demands of a 4 year old, especially using living animals, is just asking for problems further down the line.

Puppies are hard work & coupled with a child with additional needs you will be kept very, _very_ busy & if you have little to do with other people due to your daughter's social needs then it will be very lonely for you & very difficult to properly socialise a puppy.

You would have to pay an adoption fee if you get a dog from a shelter, & also complete paperwork & have a homecheck to make sure your home & lifestyle is suitable.

And you are taking a massive gamble in hoping some randomly bred cute puppy being given away is going to fit all the criteria you've listed.


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## Nesa

labradrk said:


> So the answer to your 4 year olds problems are to buy her a puppy because that is what she wants? Yes because I'm sure a 4 year old will be getting up in the middle of the night, clearing up all the wee and poo that it will do all over your floors, take it for walks, train it, pay all the costs etc....
> 
> By the way no puppy is therapeutic, you are more likely to be needing therapy after welcoming a puppy into your home. :Hilarious
> 
> This must be a wind up.


We are at a point where we have tried everything and it has been a lot harder than cleaning poo or staying up wvery night as i have done

I am willing to put in the work if this will help as i explained already

If it doesnt help then at least i tried.


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## anachronism

You can't get insurance that covers vaccinations and worming. You won't get good insurance that covers for life for a goldie for £20 per month. Plus you have to pay an excess on top which is usually about £100. A puppy is going to be a really bad idea if you will have £100 max as well as your daughter having specific needs. 

A pet would likely be helpful for her but definitely not a dog


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## Calvine

Nesa said:


> So how much per month is an insurance that covers absolutely everything worming etc?


You need to check out some comparison sites to find out who gives what and for how much. You need to do this carefully. Insurance companies won't cover a pre-existing condition, and should a problem arise (it may not!) they can quickly exclude certain conditions. To get a good one won't be cheap, but it is very important. Dog owners on PF can obviously advise you how much they pay and what it covers, but you need to shop around a fair bit.


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## Nesa

ouesi said:


> Okay, I did not say a single thing about your child other than to express sympathy that she is going through a hard time.
> 
> Are you deliberately trying to misconstrue posts so that you can take offense?
> 
> One of my dogs is a therapy dog. One of the places he visits is a psychiatric hospital for teens. Some of the patients are outpatients and love his visits too.
> I also work with therapeutic equine programs.
> 
> I'm sure there is a program somewhere where your child can get the benefit of bonding with an animal without risking putting that animal in an unsuitable home, or getting a dog from an unscrupulous source.


What is it about our home that is unsuitable?

We both would care and love the dog thats for sure. and obviously i would find out how to care train the dog when i get there but first i need to find a dog

I am willing to put in the work so yes i dont know why you say things like that


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## Guest

Nesa said:


> If it doesnt help then at least i tried.


If it doesn't help then you still have a puppy. 
What happens to the puppy?


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## Dr Pepper

Come on people, the fact she stated she "need a golden retriever" says volumes about it being treated as a possession to appease a four year old, rather than a family member. I really hope this is troll and not a serious thread

I also pity the four year old.


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## leashedForLife

.
.
the average cost for the 1st year, & EVERY YEAR of a dog's life in the U-S, is $1,000 -
not counting boarding for vacay, any but wellness checks at the vet, no paid training, etc.
That's just food, bowls for water & food, a crate, leash, & approx 2 healthy-pup / dog wellness visits per year.
.
Large breeds of 90# & up eat more, cost more, & take more meds - their dosage is higher, thus a Rx costs more.
So they can cost a LOT more, if they are over 120#. // Extras - a water-repellent coat for a thin-coated Whippet
or a toy-sized dog, a safe car-harness for car trips, etc - are all above & beyond the basic grand.
.
.
.


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## Kimmikins

If your little girl's issues are diagnosed, you may be able to get a home visit from a therapy dog. This would provide the calming presence, but without the intense involvement of raising a puppy...who I assure you will not provide the peaceful atmosphere you need! Puppy blues are real, and if your little girl has anger issues I would worry about her lashing out at the puppy. I'd imagine that any breeder worth their salt would not want to place a puppy into a home where it might be the victim of an angry burst. That's not a slur on your daughter, but just a reminder that puppies are living things and won't understand what's going on if she gets angry at them.


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## Mirandashell

> I really hope this is troll and not a serious thread
> 
> I also pity the four year old.


And maybe you should just leave the thread alone. She may be trolling, she may not, there's no way to know. But if she's not, then she needs advice and it won't kill any of us to give.

If she is trolling then what the hey, nobody died. But sniping isn't helping.


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## Nesa

anachronism said:


> You can't get insurance that covers vaccinations and worming. You won't get good insurance that covers for life for a goldie for £20 per month. Plus you have to pay an excess on top which is usually about £100. A puppy is going to be a really bad idea if you will have £100 max as well as your daughter having specific needs.
> 
> A pet would likely be helpful for her but definitely not a dog


She doesnt want a cat and i am totally freaked out by anything resembling mice or rats like hamsters or guinea pigs or lizards or pretty much any other small animal i can think of

Also the bonding you get with a dog is not the same as a hamster for example

When you say you have to pay an excess on top is that an upfront fee for insurance?


----------



## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> We are at a point where we have tried everything and it has been a lot harder than cleaning poo or staying up wvery night as i have done
> 
> I am willing to put in the work if this will help as i explained already
> 
> *If it doesnt help then at least i tried.*


So what happens if it doesn't work?

When you'll have the burden of caring for a dog that hasn't worked' for the next approximately 15 years, in addition & possibly to the detriment of the quality of care to your daughter?

It seems like you are trying to project your wants onto your 4 year old daughter, which is neither fair nor responsible.


----------



## Nesa

Mirandashell said:


> And maybe you should just leave the thread alone. She may be trolling, she may not, there's no way to know. But if she's not, then she needs advice and it won't kill any of us to give.
> 
> If she is trolling then what the hey, nobody died. But sniping isn't helping.


Thank you so much for this sensible post

I have little patience left and i dont need to spend it defending a pointless accusation


----------



## Kimmikins

An excess is a set amount that you have to pay when you make a claim. So, if vet fees were £150 you'd have to pay that upfront first and then claim back...and the excess would be deducted from what the insurance company pay out. If your excess was £75 you'd get £75 back from the insurance company.


----------



## Cleo38

Here you go .... on Amazon .... well under £100 at £15.79 .... just what your daughter needs& she can look after it all by herself!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/unl/Living-Nature-Golden-Retriever-soft-toy-35cm/B0080E052Q


----------



## Mirandashell

> I have little patience left and i dont need to spend it defending a pointless accusation


Just ignore it. Not worth the stress.

But there are people here giving you very good advice because you need to think hard about what a puppy entails. And you having responsibility for two being dependent on you.


----------



## Nesa

Nesa said:


> Thank you so much for this sensible post
> 
> I have little patience left and i dont need to spend it defending a pointless accusation


You have to first ask what is someone gaining by trolling. Why would i write all this looking for a dog and if someone finds us the dog then they will meet us in person so whats the lie. If i dont need a dog then why come here posting that, its rediculous


----------



## Rafa

Nesa said:


> She doesnt want a cat and i am totally freaked out by anything resembling mice or rats like hamsters or guinea pigs or lizards or pretty much any other small animal i can think of
> 
> Also the bonding you get with a dog is not the same as a hamster for example
> 
> When you say you have to pay an excess on top is that an upfront fee for insurance?


No.

You will pay your insurance premium, just as you would on your car or house, but all policies will carry an excess, which means that, when you make a claim, you will have to pay a sum up front. It varies a lot, but is normally around £100/£150.

Say your pup needed surgery or treatment, you would have to pay that before the insurance would begin cover.

Don't forget also you will need to have your bitch/dog neutered, which will cost hundreds of pounds and not be covered at all by insurance.


----------



## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> What is it about our home that is unsuitable?
> 
> We both would care and love the dog thats for sure. and *obviously i would find out how to care train the dog when i get there but first i need to find a dog*
> 
> I am willing to put in the work so yes i dont know why you say things like that


No.

You need to be researching now, not a couple of weeks before you get a dog, not when the dog is there, but now, & research for several months before even thinking about approaching a rescue or breeder for a dog.

You need to be spending time with dogs, around dogs, attending doggy events, meeting doggy people, even just going for a walk with a neighbour or family member with a dog is a start.

You need to be experiencing in all its tangibility what living with a dog is actually like, because it's nothing like the romanticising & anthropomorphising the films or the books portray it as.

That is the only responsible way to go about things.


----------



## Nesa

Mirandashell said:


> Just ignore it. Not worth the stress.
> 
> But there are people here giving you very good advice because you need to think hard about what a puppy entails. And you having responsibility for two being dependent on you.


I understand and appreciate the good advice. The thing is i already imagined it will be hard but adding a new family member that my daughter is not threatened by is a huge gain for us and worth the hard work when you consider we are alone a lot as she doesnt go to school and obviously i have to stay home with her


----------



## Nesa

Cleo38 said:


> Here you go .... on Amazon .... well under £100 at £15.79 .... just what your daughter needs& she can look after it all by herself!
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/unl/Living-Nature-Golden-Retriever-soft-toy-35cm/B0080E052Q


What a shameful post


----------



## Mirandashell

I understand. But Simply had the right idea. Do you know anyone who has a dog?


----------



## Nesa

Kimmikins said:


> If your little girl's issues are diagnosed, you may be able to get a home visit from a therapy dog. This would provide the calming presence, but without the intense involvement of raising a puppy...who I assure you will not provide the peaceful atmosphere you need! Puppy blues are real, and if your little girl has anger issues I would worry about her lashing out at the puppy. I'd imagine that any breeder worth their salt would not want to place a puppy into a home where it might be the victim of an angry burst. That's not a slur on your daughter, but just a reminder that puppies are living things and won't understand what's going on if she gets angry at them.


Ahe is not an angry child anymore. She is extremely shy and loving


----------



## Siskin

I have had golden retrievers for over 30 years and believe me they are not cheap to buy nor to feed and keep healty.
Trying to find a GR for £100 will not happen, they won't be that cheap even from puppy farms or BYB's. A well bred puppy that has been temperament tested from health and temperament tested parents will be not far short of £1000. Puppy farmed dogs will be cheaper but not greatly so and they may well be riddled with inherited health problems and of poor temperament. I don't think you will find anyone that is prepared to part with a puppy for £100 however many people you ask

Insurance will not be cheap, something like £40 per month with an excess of £90 to pay before the claim will be met. This will not cover annual innoculations or workers or flea and tick prevention methods.
Feeding a large dog is not cheap. I buy 12 kgs sacks of food which will last a little of over a month. These cost about £30. There are also various treats etc which add up over the weeks. Then there is a suitable bed collar, lead, toys, the list goes on and on.

I am also concerned about your child's anger issues. Goldens are sensitive dogs and do not react very well to any poor treatment. If your daughter has an angry outburst directed at the dog then you may well find the dog will not trust your daughter and actively avoid her perhaps making her more angry.


----------



## Nesa

Mirandashell said:


> I understand. But Simply had the right idea. Do you know anyone who has a dog?


She has pet other peoples dogs but we dont know anyone who has one at home


----------



## Cleo38

Nesa said:


> What a shameful post


Not shameful at all ... you obviously have no idea what you might be taking on & there is not thought to the potential new puppy only what your daughter 'needs'. she doesn;t 'need' a dog or if you think a dog may help then get her involved with someone elses dog. Puppies are hard work & will not be a 'cure' but couldpotentiually be another added stress.

And the fact that your daughter has severe anger issues .... a puppy really won't help .. what happens if she gets angry with the pup????


----------



## Nesa

simplysardonic said:


> No.
> 
> You need to be researching now, not a couple of weeks before you get a dog, not when the dog is there, but now, & research for several months before even thinking about approaching a rescue or breeder for a dog.
> 
> You need to be spending time with dogs, around dogs, attending doggy events, meeting doggy people, even just going for a walk with a neighbour or family member with a dog is a start.
> 
> You need to be experiencing in all its tangibility what living with a dog is actually like, because it's nothing like the romanticising & anthropomorphising the films or the books portray it as.
> 
> That is the only responsible way to go about things.


No i dont need to train for months to get a dog. If you have common sense and obviously advice and some plan to follow that should be ok. stop exagerating


----------



## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> You have to first ask what is someone gaining by trolling. Why would i write all this looking for a dog and if someone finds us the dog then they will meet us in person so whats the lie. If i dont need a dog then why come here posting that, its rediculous


You'd be surprised how common it is.

Quite a few of my friends who breed, not just dogs but cats, rats etc, get lots of emails wanting a free animal every time they have a litter, usually with an accompanying story in order to gain sympathy.

Unsurprisingly, that tends to make people cynical.

You may have read about specially trained dogs who help with children with autism & other issues.

They are fantastic dogs, but they are highly trained & temperament tested & matched with the individual by organisations who know what they're doing- I'm not even sure there are any credible ones in the UK, I know a very unscrupulous one was uncovered recently so it's something that isn't going to be simple to find.


----------



## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> No i dont need to train for months to get a dog. If you have common sense and obviously advice and some plan to follow that should be ok. stop exagerating


I didn't say train, I said research, which is completely different.

I am not exaggerating, I am being realistic.


----------



## Nesa

Cleo38 said:


> Not shameful at all ... you obviously have no idea what you might be taking on & there is not thought to the potential new puppy only what your daughter 'needs'. she doesn;t 'need' a dog or if you think a dog may help then get her involved with someone elses dog. Puppies are hard work & will not be a 'cure' but couldpotentiually be another added stress.
> 
> And the fact that your daughter has severe anger issues .... a puppy really won't help .. what happens if she gets angry with the pup????


Well you obviously havent read all my posts

She HAD anger issues which has all been resolved now and she is even unnecesarily ashamed of it

So i dont appreciate you talking anout my child who is having a difficult time this way. Yes my daughter NEEDS a dog and said dog NEEDS love from a family where is the contradiction here


----------



## SLB

Sorry if this causes you any offence, but anyone wanting to put a live animal in the possession of a child - 4 years no less - who has no understanding of the world yet herself, of whom has anger issues, seriously needs to rethink their thoughts on how best to go about their child's issues. 

Get her into a sport, take her to a dance class, football, karate - something that will teach her to focus her emotions, control her actions and give her a physical outlet in which to express herself.


----------



## Nesa

simplysardonic said:


> You'd be surprised how common it is.
> 
> Quite a few of my friends who breed, not just dogs but cats, rats etc, get lots of emails wanting a free animal every time they have a litter, usually with an accompanying story in order to gain sympathy.
> 
> Unsurprisingly, that tends to make people cynical.
> 
> You may have read about specially trained dogs who help with children with autism & other issues.
> 
> They are fantastic dogs, but they are highly trained & temperament tested & matched with the individual by organisations who know what they're doing- I'm not even sure there are any credible ones in the UK, I know a very unscrupulous one was uncovered recently so it's something that isn't going to be simple to find.


And why do they want these animals ? Do they follow through with the request?

I have experience of writing on another forum before for a different matter and most posts are cynical it just makes me wonder why most people feel the need to do that. If you believe i may be a troll you can just skip me without saying it as you might be saying it to someone genuine. Then you lose nothing if you dont respond


----------



## elmthesofties

Nesa said:


> I think this is a good idea i would be willing to try about therapeutic dogs. Do they let you have them for a few hours or how does it work


It would depend on the people and the animals you were interested in. There are therapy horses out there, there are reading dogs, there are cats that'll sit on your lap, etc. Individual charities and groups will do different things and arrange them in different ways.
I would suggest that if you're interested, then look up local therapy centres and ask them what they do.


Nesa said:


> I am curious about how hard or often a puppy bites?


It can be almost constant, depending on their age. If it's not dealt with appropriately, puppies will bite with increasing strength to get the desired reaction. They can easily draw blood, pull out hair, etc.
When you see dog training shows on TV, the dogs always react well very quickly. But getting a puppy to stop mouthing inappropriately in real life can take months of very consistent work. That's the case with a lot of problems.


Nesa said:


> Is the training just consistent common sense like with children? I am assuming so as I doubt all these dog owners go to a dog training school


Puppy classes are actually very, very popular.
It is NOT just common sense. How would you tell a puppy to stop mouthing, without looking it up? What if the puppy started guarding resources? Pulling on the lead? Snatching food? Displaying aggression towards other dogs? Fear towards people? If you do something wrong, you can easily make the problems worse.
Too many people think that 'love' is all that you need, but it really isn't.


Nesa said:


> I can imagine someone who can sell a puppy for £1000 will not give it to me. But sometimes a puppy can have a nice personality even if they didnt have special parents[


That's true, but a lot of issues with dogs are heavily influenced by genetics. You can't know how your 8 week old puppy will mature, so you need to do everything you can to eliminate the risks. This is so, so important when you have a young child. No breed is universally good, you can't just trust the fact that GRs have a reputation of being calm and friendly because there _are_ exceptions. Even with a lot of effort, some will be almost impossible to work with and issues you can't ever resolve.
The health issues are another big one. GRs are quite notorious for getting cancer when they're very young and developing hip issues. You only increase the risks by getting a puppy from an unknown background. It would surely be very traumatic to closely bond with a dog and watch them slowly die within a few short years. I hate to be dramatic but that's essentially the risk you'd be taking.


----------



## BlueJay

Run down of costs for you.... ignoring the initial cost of the actual dog.
Costs from my area; insurance and vets etc vary by postcode, and I'm willing to bet London is not a cheap area.

Insurance (I used sainsburys for a quote); as a starting point - they can and do increase with time and claims - £22 - £56, depending on the level of cover you want.
You WILL pay an excess, call it £60 - £100, again depending on type of cover, area etc.
Vet package for vaccinations including microchipping and initial flea/worm treatment; £85
ONGOING flea/worm treatment; £5 - £20 per month
Food. Dogs need food. Can vary a huge amount depending on what you want to feed and what suits your dog. Call it £20 - £40 per month.
Toys. Puppies chew, a lot. They need lots of mental stimulation and interaction. Maybe £20 initial outlay, replaced as necessary.
A crate or similar will be absolutely essential to give your puppy a break from your child. GR sized plus bed? £50
Treats. Can't train puppies with thin air! Again, can vary hugely. £5+
Brushes. Don't get your puppy used to brushing and you could have a matted, compacted coat on your hands and big grooming bills. £5
Collar/harness and lead, plus tags. £10+

Being that a free puppy will likely not be from a reputable source and golden retrievers are not the healthiest breed in the world, you'll need to factor in potential costs and issues related to health; hip/elbow dysplasia, skin conditions, eye conditions. Heck, temperament and behavioural issues can be genetic too; you might need assistance from trainers or behaviourists, which do not work for free.

Dogs are a HUGE commitment and there is so much more to think about than "how much can i buy a puppy for" and "my toddler likes it"

Puppies bite. Hard, until they learn otherwise.
Big dogs have big mouths.
They scratch. 
They jump, they pounce, they thud around.
A golden puppy is going to be big enough to knock your daughter down in excitement before it learns to properly control itself.


----------



## Nesa

SLB said:


> Sorry if this causes you any offence, but anyone wanting to put a live animal in the possession of a child - 4 years no less - who has no understanding of the world yet herself, of whom has anger issues, seriously needs to rethink their thoughts on how best to go about their child's issues.
> 
> Get her into a sport, take her to a dance class, football, karate - something that will teach her to focus her emotions, control her actions and give her a physical outlet in which to express herself.


Erm hello? The dog would not be under her care but mine. I could turn this around: any adult who assumes an adult getting a dog for their child will let their 4yo take care of it does not have enough understanding of the world in order to have a dog themselves


----------



## Nesa

SLB said:


> Sorry if this causes you any offence, but anyone wanting to put a live animal in the possession of a child - 4 years no less - who has no understanding of the world yet herself, of whom has anger issues, seriously needs to rethink their thoughts on how best to go about their child's issues.
> 
> Get her into a sport, take her to a dance class, football, karate - something that will teach her to focus her emotions, control her actions and give her a physical outlet in which to express herself.


She was going to drama, gymnastics, swimming and dance every week. She cant do any of these things now. I spend everyday rethinking my childs issues thank you


----------



## BlueJay

Nesa said:


> She was going to drama, gymnastics, swimming and dance every week. She cant do any of these things now. I spend everyday rethinking my childs issues thank you


Is there a particular reason that she cannot do these now, or why they did or did not help that would not apply to a puppy?


----------



## Guest

Without going in to details, what are your child's issues that mean she NEEDS a dog? A golden retriever specifically?


----------



## simplysardonic

Nesa said:


> And why do they want these animals ? Do they follow through with the request?
> 
> I have experience of writing on another forum before for a different matter and most posts are cynical it just makes me wonder why most people feel the need to do that. If you believe i may be a troll you can just skip me without saying it as you might be saying it to someone genuine. Then you lose nothing if you dont respond


I did not say you were a troll.

I'm saying that responsible breeders would not be giving preferential treatment to people because they have a story to tell.

They may feel that their exception is somehow exceptional, but it isn't.

Pretty much everyone is fighting some sort of battle or going through some sort of hardship, but most people don't expect a free puppy out of it.


----------



## Cleo38

Nesa said:


> Well you obviously havent read all my posts
> 
> She HAD anger issues which has all been resolved now and she is even unnecesarily ashamed of it
> 
> So i dont appreciate you talking anout my child who is having a difficult time this way. Yes my daughter NEEDS a dog and said dog NEEDS love from a family where is the contradiction here


Hahahaha , then why post about it???? Your daughter does not NEED a dog & there is no said dog ... just one that you are intent on getting depite having no idea or money for one!! No dog NEEDS a home where the new owner has no idea ..... but unfortunately that what a lot get


----------



## ForestWomble

Rather then getting a dog, I would highly suggested looking into PAT (Pets As Therapy) and seeing if someone could visit with their dog.

I used to have a lady visit me with her PAT dog, it was for 1 hour, once a month. It was therapeutic, relaxing, all you want for your daughter, without the cost etc that comes with having a dog full time. 

I got a puppy 2 years ago and believe me, a puppy is not a calm, relaxing creature. He pee'd, poo'd, play bit, I was either playing with him, training him, stopping him from doing things he shouldn't, cleaning up poo and pee, or while asleep trying to get housework done or have a few minutes to relax. Puppies are not easy. 

As for cost, you have all the essentials to buy before the puppy comes home (food bowls, water bowls, toys, blanket or something, crate if you are going to crate train, food, treats, collar, lead, then once you have the pup there is vaccinations, wormer, flea treatment, vet appointments etc, as well as all that there is insurance.


----------



## SLB

Nesa said:


> Erm hello? The dog would not be under her care but mine. I could turn this around: any adult who assumes an adult getting a dog for their child will let their 4yo take care of it does not have enough understanding of the world in order to have a dog themselves


Oh shit! I better pack my 4 off to rescue then!

FYI - your turn around - makes no sense, especially as in your first post you "need a dog for your 4 year old". Ooh an adult who can quote posts - aren't I quite the grown up!

Check out any of the local selling pages, sites and papers - see how many people are giving up dogs because:
- They're having a baby
- They are having another baby
- Their child keeps hitting/kicking/pulling the dog
- Their child is bored of the dog

You, will be surprised. As an adult, who has owned dogs for 7 years (without the help of her parents) I have seen these numerous times, to the point - it doesn't shock me anymore. As an adult, who has helped out in rescue, these excuses are all too common.


----------



## Kimmikins

Nesa said:


> Ahe is not an angry child anymore. She is extremely shy and loving


That's not the way your posts have read, and several other people have come to the same conclusion. We don't know what's going on in you and your child's private life, and I know certainly don't want to pry...so we can only base our responses and advice on what we've interpreted from your posts.

And from what I've read, your child doesn't NEED a puppy. She wants one, and you're hoping that it will be a welcome quick fix to your troubles. What we're trying to demonstrate is that it won't be. At all. And we have the hypothetical puppy's interests at heart, as that puppy will be the one to lose out if things don't work out how you envision.


----------



## RottieMummy

I really sympathise with you being someone who also has a child with severe additional needs but I promise you a puppy is not the answer. It may seem that way now but it will make things harder not better. We waited until my son was calmer and in school before even considering pets as I knew I couldn't take on any more. 

When we got a dog we then went for an older (6 months) rescue as we then knew the dog was temptement tested and healthy. We also knew that a puppy would simply take away the time and attention I needed to give to my child instead. We brought the dog home and my son was so happy, for 2 days! Then the dog chewed his toys. Luckily we got the dog for us as a family and not for my son as it would have been a huge disappointment. 

That was 7 years ago now, we still have the dog, my son still has no interest in him and thankfully is a different child now he's a teenager and had years and years of extensive support and therapy. I don't know what needs your daughter has but there is help out there and therapy that may help. A puppy won't, it may distract her for a short time but it won't cure her and 4 year olds quickly get bored and move on.

My son has autism, sensory processing disorder and extensive learning difficulties as a result of oxygen starvation at birth by the way. If your daughter has any of the above I may be able to signpost you to help, feel free to PM me.


----------



## cows573

Can I second what @RottieMummy has said?

Our youngest child also has a host of learning and developmental issues and when he was four, we did get a puppy. However, we didn't get the puppy for him but for ourselves.

Our puppy wasn't expensive and did dramatically help our child. Nearly five years on and he does still have a very close bond with her - he is and was, her playmate!

Our puppy wasn't pedigree, is a breed known to be very good and tolerant of children. We also had experience of owning dogs our entire life.

My concern would be, while you say your daughter does not have anger issues now, there is no guarantee that they may not reoccur. My son never had aggressive behaviour and had experience with our other pets regarding the correct way to handle a pet. A puppy can be very easily hurt or killed by a child that is simply over enthusiastic with no experience of pets...


----------



## Guest

Nesa said:


> Well you obviously havent read all my posts


Okay, now that I have the time to do it properly, I have read all your posts, and I have taken the time to respond to a few points. 
I hope you will take the time to read this thread and the informative, helpful replies you have gotten.



Nesa said:


> My 4year old daughter is going through a very difficult time and wants a puppy. So far she liked the pictures of golden retrievers and i have read that their calm presence is therapeutic
> 
> It needs to be a puppy as thats all she wants


She is four. She decided on a golden retriever off a picture of one. In other words, she doesn't know what she wants. Honestly, no four year old does.



Nesa said:


> I am hoping a dog will help her heal and there is no way i can pay for one as they are too expensive


As already mentioned, but worth reiterating, the initial cost of a dog is the very least you will pay for a dog. Dogs are expensive throughout their lives, it's not a one time cost like an appliance or a toy.



Nesa said:


> I appreciate the answers about the hard work required however I am not sure if what is hard to you is hard for me too. After all i have had to have tremendous amount of patience raising my girl and i will still have to have. So if i have to find an activity to do with her it will require imagination and patience and that activity can be involving a puppy
> 
> I am curious about how hard or often a puppy bites?
> 
> A cat for example bites you lightly sometimes during play it doesnt hurt.
> 
> Is the training just consistent common sense like with children? I am assuming so as I doubt all these dog owners go to a dog training school
> 
> I appreciate these specific answers but please dont exagerate meaning well but lets just be realistic.


This post shows that you don't know what you don't know. You assume what others mean by "hard work" is not going to be hard work for you, but you don't know because you have no experience of a puppy. You don't know what to expect with biting, you don't know what to expect with training. 
So how can you "know" this is the only answer for your child or that a puppy will even be beneficial to your child? 
What if the stress of dealing with the puppy (and it is stressful) makes her worse and causes her to regress with her issues?



Nesa said:


> What is it about our home that is unsuitable?


The fact that you don't know what you're getting in to with a puppy for starters. That you say you can't afford the initial cost. The fact that you're allowing your child to choose the breed off a picture and now think that is the only suitable dog for her. A lot of reasons.



Nesa said:


> We both would care and love the dog thats for sure. and obviously i would find out how to care train the dog when i get there but first i need to find a dogt


No, that's backwards. First you educate yourself on what owning a dog entails, then you decide if you're even a suitable home for a dog, then you start researching breeds suited to your lifestyle, then you research breeders and/or breed rescues, then, if you're still interested, you get the dog. Considering this is a companion you will spend the next 15 years of your life with, it's not too much to ask to spend a few months (years) researching so you can do it right.



Nesa said:


> I am willing to put in the work so yes i dont know why you say things like that


You don't know what the work entails yet, so you don't know what willing to put the work in even means in this case. I'm sure you are well intentioned, but as they say, you need more than just good intentions.



Nesa said:


> She doesnt want a cat


Again, she doesn't know what she wants. She's four. No four year old knows what they want. When my daughter was four she wanted to have a brother who was a lion. Needless to say, we did not oblige


----------



## Calvine

Nesa said:


> What is it about our home that is unsuitable?


I used to foster (cats though) and we were told not to rehome kittens to a home with children under five. Different rescues will have different ideas. Also, the fact you say your daughter has, or had, severe anger issues and you ''let her lash out''. Where would the puppy fit into her anger issues and would she ''lash out'' at it (bearing in mind, however careful you are, you cannot watch a child 24/7)?


----------



## Dogloverlou

So your 4 year old picked out a picture of a Golden Retriever, therefore she must have one? If she'd said she wants to be a Princess, would you take that literally too??  She's a 4 year old child. You're the parent & the one in charge....

I'd also be very concerned placing a puppy in a household with a child with anger issues not to mention the countless other red flags your posts raise....


----------



## Calvine

Kimmikins said:


> Puppy blues are real,


Dead right...plenty of threads on PF will back up that comment; there's always some poor soul wondering what the hell they have got themselves into!.


----------



## Kimmikins

Calvine said:


> Dead right...plenty of threads on PF will back up that comment; there's always some poor soul wondering what the hell they have got themselves into!.


I remember crying in the kitchen because of Scrumpy Jack. I don't think he'd even done anything, I think I desperately wanted a bath and he couldn't stand not being with me so would cry. So I cried!


----------



## Calvine

Nesa said:


> If i dont need a dog then why come here posting that, its rediculous


You are right, but unfortunately it happens quite regularly so many of us tend to be on our guard!! Of course, it's a pity for the genuine posters.


----------



## Nesa

SLB said:


> Oh shit! I better pack my 4 off to rescue then!
> 
> FYI - your turn around - makes no sense, especially as in your first post you "need a dog for your 4 year old". Ooh an adult who can quote posts - aren't I quite the grown up!
> 
> Check out any of the local selling pages, sites and papers - see how many people are giving up dogs because:
> - They're having a baby
> - They are having another baby
> - Their child keeps hitting/kicking/pulling the dog
> - Their child is bored of the dog
> 
> You, will be surprised. As an adult, who has owned dogs for 7 years (without the help of her parents) I have seen these numerous times, to the point - it doesn't shock me anymore. As an adult, who has helped out in rescue, these excuses are all too common.


You said and i quote "Sorry if this causes you any offence, but anyone wanting to put a live animal in the possession of a child - 4 years no less - who has no understanding of the world yetherself..."

Your post makes no sense as obviously my dughter will not be looking after the dog but me but she will play pet him etc its understood. You basically said people with children cant have dogs. What did you actually mean. Reread your post see if it makes sense


----------



## Nesa

simplysardonic said:


> I did not say you were a troll.
> 
> I'm saying that responsible breeders would not be giving preferential treatment to people because they have a story to tell.
> 
> They may feel that their exception is somehow exceptional, but it isn't.
> 
> Pretty much everyone is fighting some sort of battle or going through some sort of hardship, but most people don't expect a free puppy out of it.


"Responsible breeders" are human and may decide to give a puppy for free. I obviously know this is highly unlikely but you dont know for sure they wont and it has nothing to do with being responsible only generous. It is responsible to give a puppy to a nice caring family who is willing to put in the work. It is generous to do it for free


----------



## cows573

I am a bit concerned that you are focusing on older comments when many of the more recent comments have been constructive. Please take the time to consider what they have said in a thoughtful manner.....


----------



## Nesa

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahaha , then why post about it???? Your daughter does not NEED a dog & there is no said dog ... just one that you are intent on getting depite having no idea or money for one!! No dog NEEDS a home where the new owner has no idea ..... but unfortunately that what a lot get


Its hilarious really just like the toy you posted you sad soul

Nothing about this is funny

If you cared to read the thread i mentioned her anger that it was what we have had to deal with and how a puppy is a piece of cake for me


----------



## Rafa

Now.

You have had a lot of good advice and many members here have put themselves out to try and help you.

What you do now is your choice - whether you listen to the advice is up to you.

Personally, I would never in a million years allow a four year old to decide she wants a pup. Four year olds can't decide what flavour ice-cream they want or what they want for Christmas, let alone be the one in the family who dictates that they will have a dog.

It's ridiculous.


----------



## Nesa

Siskin said:


> I have had golden retrievers for over 30 years and believe me they are not cheap to buy nor to feed and keep healty.
> Trying to find a GR for £100 will not happen, they won't be that cheap even from puppy farms or BYB's. A well bred puppy that has been temperament tested from health and temperament tested parents will be not far short of £1000. Puppy farmed dogs will be cheaper but not greatly so and they may well be riddled with inherited health problems and of poor temperament. I don't think you will find anyone that is prepared to part with a puppy for £100 however many people you ask
> 
> Insurance will not be cheap, something like £40 per month with an excess of £90 to pay before the claim will be met. This will not cover annual innoculations or workers or flea and tick prevention methods.
> Feeding a large dog is not cheap. I buy 12 kgs sacks of food which will last a little of over a month. These cost about £30. There are also various treats etc which add up over the weeks. Then there is a suitable bed collar, lead, toys, the list goes on and on.
> 
> I am also concerned about your child's anger issues. Goldens are sensitive dogs and do not react very well to any poor treatment. If your daughter has an angry outburst directed at the dog then you may well find the dog will not trust your daughter and actively avoid her perhaps making her more angry.


That doesnt sound bad. I can afford the food nd the insurance. Any unexpected medical issue will ne tricky to fork out £60-!100 but it can be done once in a while

Thanks


----------



## Nesa

elmthesofties said:


> It would depend on the people and the animals you were interested in. There are therapy horses out there, there are reading dogs, there are cats that'll sit on your lap, etc. Individual charities and groups will do different things and arrange them in different ways.
> I would suggest that if you're interested, then look up local therapy centres and ask them what they do.
> 
> It can be almost constant, depending on their age. If it's not dealt with appropriately, puppies will bite with increasing strength to get the desired reaction. They can easily draw blood, pull out hair, etc.
> When you see dog training shows on TV, the dogs always react well very quickly. But getting a puppy to stop mouthing inappropriately in real life can take months of very consistent work. That's the case with a lot of problems.
> 
> Puppy classes are actually very, very popular.
> It is NOT just common sense. How would you tell a puppy to stop mouthing, without looking it up? What if the puppy started guarding resources? Pulling on the lead? Snatching food? Displaying aggression towards other dogs? Fear towards people? If you do something wrong, you can easily make the problems worse.
> Too many people think that 'love' is all that you need, but it really isn't.
> 
> That's true, but a lot of issues with dogs are heavily influenced by genetics. You can't know how your 8 week old puppy will mature, so you need to do everything you can to eliminate the risks. This is so, so important when you have a young child. No breed is universally good, you can't just trust the fact that GRs have a reputation of being calm and friendly because there _are_ exceptions. Even with a lot of effort, some will be almost impossible to work with and issues you can't ever resolve.
> The health issues are another big one. GRs are quite notorious for getting cancer when they're very young and developing hip issues. You only increase the risks by getting a puppy from an unknown background. It would surely be very traumatic to closely bond with a dog and watch them slowly die within a few short years. I hate to be dramatic but that's essentially the risk you'd be taking.


I know what you are saying but its all doble. Most things can be checked on google how to stop them from chewing and then its just a case of sticking with it or seking advise elsewhere i am 36 with a lot of experience im not an incapable teenager


----------



## Nesa

elmthesofties said:


> It would depend on the people and the animals you were interested in. There are therapy horses out there, there are reading dogs, there are cats that'll sit on your lap, etc. Individual charities and groups will do different things and arrange them in different ways.
> I would suggest that if you're interested, then look up local therapy centres and ask them what they do.
> 
> It can be almost constant, depending on their age. If it's not dealt with appropriately, puppies will bite with increasing strength to get the desired reaction. They can easily draw blood, pull out hair, etc.
> When you see dog training shows on TV, the dogs always react well very quickly. But getting a puppy to stop mouthing inappropriately in real life can take months of very consistent work. That's the case with a lot of problems.
> 
> Puppy classes are actually very, very popular.
> It is NOT just common sense. How would you tell a puppy to stop mouthing, without looking it up? What if the puppy started guarding resources? Pulling on the lead? Snatching food? Displaying aggression towards other dogs? Fear towards people? If you do something wrong, you can easily make the problems worse.
> Too many people think that 'love' is all that you need, but it really isn't.
> 
> That's true, but a lot of issues with dogs are heavily influenced by genetics. You can't know how your 8 week old puppy will mature, so you need to do everything you can to eliminate the risks. This is so, so important when you have a young child. No breed is universally good, you can't just trust the fact that GRs have a reputation of being calm and friendly because there _are_ exceptions. Even with a lot of effort, some will be almost impossible to work with and issues you can't ever resolve.
> The health issues are another big one. GRs are quite notorious for getting cancer when they're very young and developing hip issues. You only increase the risks by getting a puppy from an unknown background. It would surely be very traumatic to closely bond with a dog and watch them slowly die within a few short years. I hate to be dramatic but that's essentially the risk you'd be taking.


I am aware of that but if a puppy will help us throuhh this difficult time and enjoy a few years with then then it will be worth the pain when we were stronger for it


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## SusieRainbow

You could be in for a shock with the cost of vet treatment. My dog needed emergency spinal surgery last year , it cost £4,500. Luckily she was insured but we had to pay up front and claim it back as it was an emergency.


----------



## Nesa

Animallover26 said:


> Rather then getting a dog, I would highly suggested looking into PAT (Pets As Therapy) and seeing if someone could visit with their dog.
> 
> I used to have a lady visit me with her PAT dog, it was for 1 hour, once a month. It was therapeutic, relaxing, all you want for your daughter, without the cost etc that comes with having a dog full time.
> 
> I got a puppy 2 years ago and believe me, a puppy is not a calm, relaxing creature. He pee'd, poo'd, play bit, I was either playing with him, training him, stopping him from doing things he shouldn't, cleaning up poo and pee, or while asleep trying to get housework done or have a few minutes to relax. Puppies are not easy.
> 
> As for cost, you have all the essentials to buy before the puppy comes home (food bowls, water bowls, toys, blanket or something, crate if you are going to crate train, food, treats, collar, lead, then once you have the pup there is vaccinations, wormer, flea treatment, vet appointments etc, as well as all that there is insurance.


I think its a nice idea to see these therapeutic dogs in the meantime but its just not the same when the dog is yours and your familys alone they are a part of your life like we are to them so it wouldnt have the same effect


----------



## Nesa

BlueJay said:


> Run down of costs for you.... ignoring the initial cost of the actual dog.
> Costs from my area; insurance and vets etc vary by postcode, and I'm willing to bet London is not a cheap area.
> 
> Insurance (I used sainsburys for a quote); as a starting point - they can and do increase with time and claims - £22 - £56, depending on the level of cover you want.
> You WILL pay an excess, call it £60 - £100, again depending on type of cover, area etc.
> Vet package for vaccinations including microchipping and initial flea/worm treatment; £85
> ONGOING flea/worm treatment; £5 - £20 per month
> Food. Dogs need food. Can vary a huge amount depending on what you want to feed and what suits your dog. Call it £20 - £40 per month.
> Toys. Puppies chew, a lot. They need lots of mental stimulation and interaction. Maybe £20 initial outlay, replaced as necessary.
> A crate or similar will be absolutely essential to give your puppy a break from your child. GR sized plus bed? £50
> Treats. Can't train puppies with thin air! Again, can vary hugely. £5+
> Brushes. Don't get your puppy used to brushing and you could have a matted, compacted coat on your hands and big grooming bills. £5
> Collar/harness and lead, plus tags. £10+
> 
> Being that a free puppy will likely not be from a reputable source and golden retrievers are not the healthiest breed in the world, you'll need to factor in potential costs and issues related to health; hip/elbow dysplasia, skin conditions, eye conditions. Heck, temperament and behavioural issues can be genetic too; you might need assistance from trainers or behaviourists, which do not work for free.
> 
> Dogs are a HUGE commitment and there is so much more to think about than "how much can i buy a puppy for" and "my toddler likes it"
> 
> Puppies bite. Hard, until they learn otherwise.
> Big dogs have big mouths.
> They scratch.
> They jump, they pounce, they thud around.
> A golden puppy is going to be big enough to knock your daughter down in excitement before it learns to properly control itself.


Thank you these are very useful to know

I think for 6months i ca forsake some other treat and pay for wormin

I can afford insurance and food

i could pay for these essential items as a start it will be hard and would hve to wait for a couple of weeks at least


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## cows573

@Nesa it appears that you have already made your decision.

I really hope that everything works out for you and your daughter as I know how difficult it can be raising a child that is 'special'.

I don't think anyone on this forum will be able to help you with your original post though.


----------



## Rafa

Nesa said:


> I know what you are saying but its all doble. Most things can be checked on google how to stop them from chewing and then its just a case of sticking with it or seking advise elsewhere i am 36 with a lot of experience im not an incapable teenager


Google?

You will not stop a puppy from chewing, the best you can hope for is to redirect the urge.

Do please seek advice elsewhere - you're not listening to us.


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## Ceiling Kitty

I knew a Golden Retriever who had to be PTS due to aggression. He had conscientious owners, but he had bitten one of their grandchildren. I hope you don't end up with a dog like him, the poor soul. There are no guarantees in life.

I am also concerned you may be underestimating the costs of keeping a large dog and the possibility of unexpected medical bills. Depending on the insurance company you choose, most veterinary practices require payment up front so you'll need to have the cash flow to pay them while you wait for your claim to go through.


----------



## grumpy goby

If you do go ahead and get a puppy, which despite all the good advise here, PLEASE take the time and money to enroll in a good APDT registered training course/group - Do not just rely on Google to learn to train your dog. It is a good guide, but no replacement for a proper puppy class - for socialisation of your dog and avoid issues further down the line - and to train YOU and your daughter how to handle a puppy and dog when it is grown.

Without socialisation you will run into problems when you have a big strong dog who is overexcited by dogs/traffic/people at best, aggressive and/or fearful towards them at worse. Without training yourself you could be indirectly causing issues as well - poorly interpreted advice, or from questionable sources can lead to all sorts of issues.

For your situation, you really will want a dog who is "bombproof" - sadly this is highly unlikely to come for GBP100 - so please please consider slowing down, saving the money and finding a good breeder with temperament & health tested parents. Save the money you would be using to pay for food, insurance, toys, treats etc - and in the meantime research. Research breeders. Research training techniques. Research breeds. Research EVERYTHING. Visit therapy dogs, sit in on classes, get yourself and your daughter more hands on exposure to dogs.... use the time wisely and save save save. 

I feel the worst thing you can do here is rush into it and buy the first puppy you come across - you could end up with any number of issues and you will be unprepared for that. This is a 15 year commitment... it is absolutely worth taking your time, slowing down and properly preparing for the next 15 yrs of your families life.


ETA I have a dog with some allergy issues etc and always had insurance. Costs are increasing as he ages, and I have had to pay out several hundred pounds up front at the vets, and then recieve payment after the event from the insurer. Its not cheap.


----------



## leashedForLife

.
.
Since U appear bound & determined to get a dog at all costs & despite any advice that pups are bl**dy hard work, & while cute & affectionate, may not turn out as U hoped...
I am going to make a whole series of suggestions.  If U decide to ignore them all, i tried.
.
1st: don't get a puppy; get a DOG.
2nd: find a reliable source - a breed-rescue for Goldens would be my suggestion. Tell THEM what U need.
3rd: let them find, or wait for, a suitable candidate.
4th: set aside money for the needed items, meanwhile - leash, bed, crate [airline-approved shipping type, preferably], bowls, S/S pin brush, wide-toothed comb...
5th: have a contract to FOSTER the candidate for [1 month? / 60 days? / _____ ] - If it all works out, THEN... adopt the dog formally.
.
.
FYI, *a strong streak of resource-guarding is heritable* in Goldens, & can be very dangerous - the dog should be carefully tested without deliberately provoking her or him, to see that they're within the normal range [mildly protective of their food, but not about to attack with a full-mouth, full-force, repeated bite if someone innocently walks by as they are eating].
.
a 5 to 6-YO dog who is already housetrained, has leash manners, is socialized, has been habituated to human settings, etc, is a lot more forgiving of human ignorance than a puppy, who is much needier, requires a knowledgeable owner not a novice, & is a bag of potential.
An adult dog is a personality, with known, visible temperament which can be tested; a pup can become a brilliant companion, or the Housemate From Hell. Only part of the pup's eventual adult persona is under our human control. 
Additionally, a dog who has LIVED WITH CHILDREN & still loves them, is a treasure beyond price. Do not think that "puppy" equals easy, fun, & perfect. A dog who has been tested by children's whims & casually obnoxious behavior, but still thinks kids are wonderful, is a gem. Find one of those. 
.
.
.


----------



## SLB

Nesa said:


> You said and i quote "Sorry if this causes you any offence, but anyone wanting to put a live animal in the possession of a child - 4 years no less - who has no understanding of the world yetherself..."
> 
> Your post makes no sense as obviously my dughter will not be looking after the dog but me but she will play pet him etc its understood. You basically said people with children cant have dogs. What did you actually mean. Reread your post see if it makes sense


I can't do quotes on my phone. However, I believe you did say "we would both care and love the dog".

Possession was possibly the wrong word to use. But her "need" to have something would say she'd be "needing" it all to herself.

Have you not seen the newspapers or social media at all?! There are an alarming number of parents who's children get mauled because they are ill informed on how to deal with having children and dogs together. Simple things like teaching respect between each other. Not going near food, not touching the dog when sleeping. Allowing God awful interactions where they think it's cute that the child is sleeping on an obviously uncomfortable dog.

I'm bowing out of this now.
The last time we tried to talk someone out of getting a dog she was ill-equipped to deal with but she thought she'd prove the whole forum wrong... Until she proved us right and that dog spent over a year in an ireputable rescue.

You've had sound advice and I sincerely hope you see that a puppy is not the answer here. Least of all because a puppy was a demand from a 4 year old.


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## Lurcherlad

I haven't read all the posts and I agree that a puppy (or adult dog for that matter) is probably not a good idea. It is a huge commitment for many years.

Has your child been seen by a Psychologist? Perhaps that might help to deal with some of the issues?

I do think finding access to visits with Therapy animals would be a good idea.


----------



## MilleD

Nesa said:


> Its hilarious really just like the toy you posted you sad soul
> 
> Nothing about this is funny
> 
> If you cared to read the thread i mentioned her anger that it was what we have had to deal with and *how a puppy is a piece of cake for me*


I find this nugget incredibly worrying considering some of the questions you have already asked.


----------



## Calvine

Ceiling Kitty said:


> so you'll need to have the cash flow to pay them while you wait for your claim to go through


Indeed you will: my last ''big'' bill from the vet (well, two vets) was £4k. A consultation at the specialist vet was £400+ (insurance company would only pay a maximum of £200 for a consultation).


----------



## Siskin

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I knew a Golden Retriever who had to be PTS due to aggression. He had conscientious owners, but he had bitten one of their grandchildren. I hope you don't end up with a dog like him, the poor soul. There are no guarantees in life.
> 
> I am also concerned you may be underestimating the costs of keeping a large dog and the possibility of unexpected medical bills. Depending on the insurance company you choose, most veterinary practices require payment up front so you'll need to have the cash flow to pay them while you wait for your claim to go through.


I asked my vet once how many times he had been bitten by dogs. He said just the once and after a pause he said, by a golden retriever.
He did also go on to say that like many he was lulled into the concept that Goldens are nice easy going dogs that don't bite and found out the hard way that it wasn't a good assumption to make.

OP
My last golden was not an easy going friendly type, she did not have a good temperament at all, yet she cost me the going rate for a golden at that time. My mistake was not listening to my head and seeing certain things that should have sent alarm bells ringing, all I saw was a sweet little puppy and my heart overuled. Even an experienced person in the breed can make errors.

If you really do want to get a GR for your daughter, then save up and find a good breeder who is breeding for temperament as well as health, don't labour under the mistaken belief that someone somewhere is going to read this thread and solve all your perceived problems for free. Explain to your daughter that things like puppies don't come for free and that she will have to wait until you have enough money to buy one. If you believe you have enough money to pay for food and insurance costs once you have a dog then you have enough money to save now. 
You replied to my post saying that you could afford to pay £30 for food and £40 for insurance each month, that's £70 in total. Add a bit more to that as you will be saving hard won't you, then within the year you will have enough money to buy a well bred dog. Your daughter will have learned two important things, you can't have something the moment you want it and secondly, how to budget and save money.
It may well be in a years time she may have other interests.


----------



## elmthesofties

Nesa said:


> I know what you are saying but its all doble. Most things can be checked on google how to stop them from chewing and then its just a case of sticking with it or seking advise elsewhere i am 36 with a lot of experience im not an incapable teenager


But do you know where to look for said advice? Anyone can give advice, but it's difficult to weed out the idiots. (and there are a lot of them, with one of the most famous dog trainers alive being a complete and utter numpty) A member a while ago shared a story about a friend of theirs who used advice given to them by someone who didn't know what they were doing, and ended up with a deeply damaged dog. If you are given a GR puppy for £100, you WILL be getting a badly bred dog who would be prone to issues in the first place. Add poor training into the mix, and you're in for trouble. There is a reason why dog trainers are still going, despite the internet.
Most people with troubled dogs will tell you that they did everything they could to avoid problems developing. I am genuinely convinced that a lot of the owners of aggressive dogs in my area are deeply caring people who tried their best.



Nesa said:


> If you cared to read the thread i mentioned her anger that it was what we have had to deal with and how a puppy is a piece of cake for me


You won't know that until you have one. Everyone has had to deal with difficult things, and yet a lot of puppies end up in rescues. People who take their dog to a rescue are not people who have had everything in life handed to them on a silver platter, they have had to cope with massive hardships themselves.


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## SusieRainbow

I think finding a P.A.T dog is the best way forward. A hand picked , bomb proof dog upon whom your daughter can lavish her love and attention for a few hours a week , learn how to engage wiith a dog , and hopefully develop a bond. She sounds an ideal candidate and I'm sure your Health Visitor, GP or Social worker would try and organise it for you.
Buying a puppy is really not a good idea, a 4 yr old's attention span is too short and all sorts of potential drawbacks have been pointed out to you.
Please, please reconsider, try a less permanent alternative first and take it from there.
Alternatively ,have you considered a horse riding for the disabled scheme ? She could benefit enormously from that .


----------



## Kimmikins

My brother has an 8 month old Golden Retriever. They love him, and have tried to train him based on what they've seen me do with my dogs, some family input etc...

He's a 30kg tank. He has no door manners so will ambush you when you come through the door. He will gaze lovingly into your eyes and then show his love by giving a "kiss"...which is actually a bite on the nose. He has no idea about his own size, and will try and sit on your lap if you're on the sofa. He pulls like a chain, hates his harness going on and eats anything he can find, including stones and rabbit poop. 

He is a lovely dog, but he is not calm. He is not peaceful. He leaves a wave of destruction in his path, even though he's handsome as hell.

This is what you could end up with, or worse.


----------



## ForestWomble

SusieRainbow said:


> I think finding a P.A.T dog is the best way forward. A hand picked , bomb proof dog upon whom your daughter can lavish her love and attention for a few hours a week , learn how to engage wiith a dog , and hopefully develop a bond. She sounds an ideal candidate and I'm sure your Health Visitor, GP or Social worker would try and organise it for you.
> Buying a puppy is really not a good idea, a 4 yr old's attention span is too short and all sorts of potential drawbacks have been pointed out to you.
> Please, please reconsider, try a less permanent alternative first and take it from there.
> Alternatively ,have you considered a horse riding for the disabled scheme ? She could benefit enormously from that .


This ^

I have already suggested a PAT dog to visit, so have many others.

I urge you to take a step back, re read all the posts and take time reading the thread on dog chat about the realities of owning a dog, it's not the 'happy families' you see in films, I grew up with dogs, I wanted my own dog for 10 years before I took the plunge. I thought I was prepared - for 10 years I read books, watched Victoria Stilwell programmes, watched youtube training videos ........... got my puppy home and panicked, all I had read/learned went out my head, I had a small, furry cute bundle of fur with teeth and a very determined nature .......... those teeth hurt, I was scared of my puppy, he wanted to play, but not with toys, with me, was using my slippers (with my feet still in them) and my socks and trousers as toys, I knew what to do, redirect him on to something appropriate, except it wasn't that easy. I was covered in bruises for the first few months, he had toys, lots of them, but he'd rather have something he shouldn't have, a puppy will take up every moment of your time.
What will happen if the puppy knocks your girl over? If he/she destroys your girls toys?
I know you say she is over the anger issues, but what if the puppy makes her relapse? What if she lashes out at the puppy? What if the puppy/dog in a moment of fear lashes out at your daughter?

A therapy dog can do wonders. I honestly think a therapy dog would be the way forward, then, possible when she is older, you could look into having a dog become part of the family.


----------



## Calvine

Nesa said:


> seking advise


Seeking advice (from a professional) if it transpires that you need it, won't be cheap.


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## trio25

Nesa said:


> I understand and appreciate the good advice. The thing is i already imagined it will be hard but adding a new family member that my daughter is not threatened by is a huge gain for us and worth the hard work when you consider we are alone a lot as she doesnt go to school and obviously i have to stay home with her


She may feel threatened by it in a way you might not expect. Me and my partner got our first dog three years ago, we did a lot of research and thought we knew what we were expecting. It was still a huge shock to the system. I am the main carer as I only work part time and my partner is out at work full time. My partner actually felt threatened by the fact the dog was getting more time and attention from me, did I love the dog more? Now my partner is an adult and understood this wasn't the case and we both love our boy to bits. But your daughter may struggle when you cannot give her attention because the puppy needs something especially as she has additional needs and is obviously used to your undivided attention which she needs.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Nesa said:


> She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.
> 
> She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion
> 
> I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her
> 
> We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore


There are various organisations that provide and even train theraphy, assistance, and even companion dogs for children and older people with various conditions and special needs.
You say that your daughter has been to see professionals although these don't seem to have helped, has your daughter had a diagnosis as to what is causing her problems? Without knowing if she has and what is actually wrong its difficult to suggest an organisation that may be able to help. To give you a few ideas of the sort of organisations that do exist there are some links below. You could maybe approach a few and ask if they cant actually help if they can perhaps point you in the right direction of someone else who may be able too. I think this would probably be the best place to start. Just getting a pup at random, could be fraught with problems, because without the correct assessment, temperament and training both of the dog itself and your daughters needs you could actually be getting into more problems then you are actually solving. However, all done in the correct way, it has been proven that having the right dog and trained in the correct way with proper assessment and training can be beneficial to children and people who have various special needs too, so I do see where your train of thought is coming from and why you think your daughter could possibly benefit, but it has to be the right dog and done in the right way to succeed.

https://www.dogsforgood.org/how-we-help/

https://www.pawswithacause.org/what-we-do/dogs-for-autism

https://www.thebluedog.org/en/i-want-a-dog/benefits-of-a-dog-in-the-family/assistance-dogs

http://www.dogshelpingkids.co.uk/

There are other organisations too if you search, not knowing if you daughter has had any diagnosis or exactly what her problems are its impossible to point you in the direction of any specific ones that may be able to help, but it may give you some ideas.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Calvine said:


> Seeking advice (from a professional) if it transpires that you need it, won't be cheap.


Based on the posts here, I'm not yet convinced they would be able to take on board advice were it given anyway.


----------



## Smuge

MilleD said:


> I find this nugget incredibly worrying considering some of the questions you have already asked.


Fairly clear from reading through the thread that the process would be far from a "piece of cake"


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Nesa said:


> hello everyone
> 
> I hope someone can help point me in the right direction
> 
> My 4year old daughter is going through a very difficult time and wants a puppy. So far she liked the pictures of golden retrievers and i have read that their calm presence is therapeutic
> 
> It needs to be a puppy as thats all she wants
> 
> I am hoping a dog will help her heal and there is no way i can pay for one as they are too expensive
> 
> I checked shelters and they dont have any puppies and i definitely dont want a dog with issues as this dog needs to be a source of peace to her
> 
> Please do you know anyone that will donate a puppy to us i can only pay £100
> 
> Please help asap as nothing is working for my daughter anymore and this is our only hope
> 
> We live in London but i could collect in the surrounding areas
> 
> I live alone with my daughter
> 
> Thank you


Something else I have just thought of that may be worth considering, is perhaps thinking about adopting or rehoming an ex guide dog for the blind. When dogs reach older age and can no longer work they are often rehomed to the public, likewise some puppies do not make the grade to be guide dogs they wont likely be small puppies and will probably be about a year or so perhaps a bit younger but it may be worth looking into. That way at least you would have a properly assessed dog and know the reason its being rehomed and whether or not it would be a suitable pet for you and your daughter. Some dogs are rehomed because of age as in retired ones, some health issues, and with young ones it can be either health or that their temperament or learning ability and concentration levels just isn't right for a guide dog responsible for their owners and owners safety, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be well adjusted family pets. You would also know that they have been introduced to things and situations and socialised correctly at least. Guide dogs usually have Labradors or golden retrievers or sometimes I think a mix of the two, so they would also be the sort of breed you are looking for. They do also when rehoming take into consideration your life style and requirements as well, so may be able to find you the perfect dog.

http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/support...og/steps-to-rehoming-a-guide-dog#.WRRx15KGPIU


----------



## Kimmikins

That 30kg tank of a GR? Pulled me on my face today after a walk. My own fault, I let my guard down, but I now have some lovely scrapes and bruises forming  Dog ownership ain't easy!!


----------



## Siskin

A lady told me that her six month old retriever pup crashed into her whilst having a zoomie and broke her leg in two places.


----------



## leashedForLife

Siskin said,

_A lady told me that her 6-MO retriever pup crashed into her whilst having a zoomie, & *broke her leg* in two places.
__________________________
.
.
Ow. :Inpain
.
.
.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

grumpy goby said:


> If you do go ahead and get a puppy, which despite all the good advise here, PLEASE take the time and money to enroll in a good APDT registered training course/group - Do not just rely on Google to learn to train your dog. It is a good guide, but no replacement for a proper puppy class - for socialisation of your dog and avoid issues further down the line - and to train YOU and your daughter how to handle a puppy and dog when it is grown.
> 
> Without socialisation you will run into problems when you have a big strong dog who is overexcited by dogs/traffic/people at best, aggressive and/or fearful towards them at worse. Without training yourself you could be indirectly causing issues as well - poorly interpreted advice, or from questionable sources can lead to all sorts of issues.
> 
> For your situation, you really will want a dog who is "bombproof" - sadly this is highly unlikely to come for GBP100 - so please please consider slowing down, saving the money and finding a good breeder with temperament & health tested parents. Save the money you would be using to pay for food, insurance, toys, treats etc - and in the meantime research. Research breeders. Research training techniques. Research breeds. Research EVERYTHING. Visit therapy dogs, sit in on classes, get yourself and your daughter more hands on exposure to dogs.... use the time wisely and save save save.
> 
> I feel the worst thing you can do here is rush into it and buy the first puppy you come across - you could end up with any number of issues and you will be unprepared for that. This is a 15 year commitment... it is absolutely worth taking your time, slowing down and properly preparing for the next 15 yrs of your families life.
> 
> ETA I have a dog with some allergy issues etc and always had insurance. Costs are increasing as he ages, and I have had to pay out several hundred pounds up front at the vets, and then recieve payment after the event from the insurer. Its not cheap.





SusieRainbow said:


> I think finding a P.A.T dog is the best way forward. A hand picked , bomb proof dog upon whom your daughter can lavish her love and attention for a few hours a week , learn how to engage wiith a dog , and hopefully develop a bond. She sounds an ideal candidate and I'm sure your Health Visitor, GP or Social worker would try and organise it for you.
> Buying a puppy is really not a good idea, a 4 yr old's attention span is too short and all sorts of potential drawbacks have been pointed out to you.
> Please, please reconsider, try a less permanent alternative first and take it from there.
> Alternatively ,have you considered a horse riding for the disabled scheme ? She could benefit enormously from that .





Sled dog hotel said:


> Something else I have just thought of that may be worth considering, is perhaps thinking about adopting or rehoming an ex guide dog for the blind. When dogs reach older age and can no longer work they are often rehomed to the public, likewise some puppies do not make the grade to be guide dogs they wont likely be small puppies and will probably be about a year or so perhaps a bit younger but it may be worth looking into. That way at least you would have a properly assessed dog and know the reason its being rehomed and whether or not it would be a suitable pet for you and your daughter. Some dogs are rehomed because of age as in retired ones, some health issues, and with young ones it can be either health or that their temperament or learning ability and concentration levels just isn't right for a guide dog responsible for their owners and owners safety, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be well adjusted family pets. You would also know that they have been introduced to things and situations and socialised correctly at least. Guide dogs usually have Labradors or golden retrievers or sometimes I think a mix of the two, so they would also be the sort of breed you are looking for. They do also when rehoming take into consideration your life style and requirements as well, so may be able to find you the perfect dog.
> 
> http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/support...og/steps-to-rehoming-a-guide-dog#.WRRx15KGPIU


Sadly, I think you're all wasting your breath... or whatever the forum equivalent is. Wearing out your keyboard for no reason?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Sadly, I think you're all wasting your breath... or whatever the forum equivalent is. Wearing out your keyboard for no reason?


Sadly I agree. I'll leave it open just in case she comes back though.


----------



## kirksandallchins

This thread is frightening - do parents really let 4 year olds decide what happens in the house? I wanted a pup after our old dog died, but it took my mum months to get my dad to agree. I was 8 and had no say (even though I sulked) about getting a new dog, or in the choice of breed.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Sadly, I think you're all wasting your breath... or whatever the forum equivalent is. Wearing out your keyboard for no reason?


Maybe so but reading between the lines and going by what the Mum has said it sounds like she has one unhappy confused child with some real issues, and the mum wants to help her and just doesn't know what she can do to make things better. If the child has emotional and other various issues, I can sort of see where she is coming from as dogs are used as companions and support for children with autism, ADHD, and other mental health problems as well as physical and mental ones.
I don't think her opening post was probably worded in the best way either, she does say further down in a post

She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.

She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion

I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her

We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore

Like I said to me it sounds like a desperate mother who wants to help her child but isn't entirely sure how to go about it. I should imagine being called a troll a few posts in didn't help if your stressed, emotional and desperate.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

I don't think she's a troll. And I really, really hope she takes on board the advice given here. But her replies so far suggest that she wants only to stick with the plan in her head, no matter how ill-advised, and isn't open to other ideas. I hope I am proven wrong!


----------



## RottieMummy

Sled dog hotel said:


> Maybe so but reading between the lines and going by what the Mum has said it sounds like she has one unhappy confused child with some real issues, and the mum wants to help her and just doesn't know what she can do to make things better. If the child has emotional and other various issues, I can sort of see where she is coming from as dogs are used as companions and support for children with autism, ADHD, and other mental health problems as well as physical and mental ones.
> I don't think her opening post was probably worded in the best way either, she does say further down in a post
> 
> She has been through hell and currently i feel the best thing for her is to be in a quiet home with me and i fully intend for dog to be with us forever and so does she.
> 
> She needs to only be around specific children she plays outside with and doesnt go to school. We cant have people over as this is stressful at the same time it is too intense being just with me all the time. The care and play a puppy will provide is the perfect shift of focus and a healing companion
> 
> I steongly belive it is a good thing. I just hope someone can help. You have no idea how much this will help her
> 
> We tried getting her help but to our disbelief these proffesionals have no compassion and treated her the same as anyone. She was not helped and hence i have decided to just not risk putting her in these situations anymore
> 
> Like I said to me it sounds like a desperate mother who wants to help her child but isn't entirely sure how to go about it. I should imagine being called a troll a few posts in didn't help if your stressed, emotional and desperate.


I agree, which is why I shared my sons issues. I've been that desperate parent willing to try anything! I had hoped she would message and I could signpost her to some of the places that supported me and my son when things were at breaking point.


----------



## Mirandashell

It could be that when she has time to think about it, she may take the advice. If she's feeling a bit desperate and upset it may take time for her to recover from the pile-on and think straight.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I don't think she's a troll. And I really, really hope she takes on board the advice given here. But her replies so far suggest that she wants only to stick with the plan in her head, no matter how ill-advised, and isn't open to other ideas. I hope I am proven wrong!


As my Nan used to say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. You can only give advice that you think could be of help, you cant make any body take it.
That's entirely up to the OP.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Fingers crossed!


----------



## Sled dog hotel

RottieMummy said:


> I agree, which is why I shared my sons issues. I've been that desperate parent willing to try anything! I had hoped she would message and I could signpost her to some of the places that supported me and my son when things were at breaking point.


Parenting unfortunately doesn't come with a how to manual for every occasion does it? There are times when you want to help, are not sure how to go about it, and even make things worse by doing or saying what you think is right and will help and in fact it can make things worse.

When your that stressed and don't know what to do to make things better, its also easy to not be able to think straight and jump on things and take them the wrong way too
and lash out when your that stressed and emotional.


----------



## SusieRainbow

@Sled dog hotel, I agree with all you say , but feel OP had a very romanticised notion of how this beautiful puppy was going to enter their lives and make every thing perfect. I also agree that calling her a troll was not necessary and such accusations should be avoided unless proven. 
I feel the deepest sympathy for OP as I know many of us do, she had lots of compassionate advice , but I don't think she wanted to hear it.
As the chances of her getting a free GR pup are pretty remote I fervently hope she doesn't just get the first one she sees that she can possibly afford and looks into therapy dogs and other such options.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

SusieRainbow said:


> @Sled dog hotel, I agree with all you say , but feel OP had a very romanticised notion of how this beautiful puppy was going to enter their lives and make every thing perfect. I also agree that calling her a troll was not necessary and such accusations should be avoided unless proven.
> I feel the deepest sympathy for OP as I know many of us do, she had lots of compassionate advice , but I don't think she wanted to hear it.
> As the chances of her getting a free GR pup are pretty remote I fervently hope she doesn't just get the first one she sees that she can possibly afford and looks into therapy dogs and other such options.


Mind you shes not exactly alone in the very romanticised notion of getting a puppy to be fair or the idea that a puppy or dog will automatically enrich your life and be perfect. All you can do like I said is give people advice you think may be of help and will also give them the tools to make an informed right decision. some ya win some you lose you can only try.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sled dog hotel said:


> Mind you shes not exactly alone in the very romanticised notion of getting a puppy to be fair or the idea that a puppy or dog will automatically enrich your life and be perfect. All you can do like I said is give people advice you think may be of help and will also give them the tools to make an informed right decision. some ya win some you lose you can only try.


And I blame the media for that , all the stories about mute children speaking their first word to the dog. Maybe that does happen but we hear nothing about the sheer hard work and frustration of puppy ownership that goes on too, that's a well kept secret !


----------



## Sled dog hotel

SusieRainbow said:


> And I blame the media for that , all the stories about mute children speaking their first word to the dog. Maybe that does happen but we hear nothing about the sheer hard work and frustration of puppy ownership that goes on too, that's a well kept secret !


I was thinking more of general puppy ownership, and getting a puppy or dog because its cute, or it would be nice to have one, or because I/We want one, without any research of what it entails or what a commitment they are and will be for 14 years or longer. How many people probably purchase puppies for those reasons alone on a weekly or even daily basis.


----------



## leashedForLife

Sled dog hotel, said,

_I was thinking more of general puppy ownership, and getting a puppy or dog because its cute, or it would be nice to have one, or because I/We want one, without any research of what it entails or what a commitment they are and will be for 14 years or longer. 
How many people probably purchase puppies for those reasons alone on a weekly or even daily basis._
_________________________________________
.
.
That's precisely why *pet-shop puppy sales* is such a bad idea - retailing cute little pups direct to the public, conveniently located in the same mall where U buy those great shoes on sale, or the Orange Julius frappe, & the knock-off designer dress?... What could _*possibly *_go wrong? 
Impulse buying a pup, with no idea of the conditions they were bred & reared in, no chance to meet the breeder or the sire & dam - or even the littermates! - no idea how big they'll grow, what the breed is generally like, their flaws & innate behaviors, coat care, possible health issues - it's a nightmare.
.
.
.


----------



## Jobeth

I agree with those that say start with a PAT dog. That way you will know how your daughter reacts and whether it would be helpful. My sister had a retired guide dog. He was highly trained and so you could take him anywhere. He bonded with my nephew and ended up preferring him to his original owner that he still saw at times. 

I would say that whilst you should prepare for a dog living for 15 years, you also have to consider how the potential loss will impact on her. It was heartbreaking when he died in my nephew's arms the day before my nephew's 16th birthday.


----------



## leashedForLife

Jobeth said,

...
_I would say that whilst you should prepare for a dog living for 15 years, you also have to consider how the potential loss will impact on her. 
It was heartbreaking when [their retired Guide-dog adoptee] died in my nephew's arms, the day before my nephew's 16th birthday._
_________________________
.
.
That's true @Jobeth - but at the same time, every living being dies. // Ur nephew's loss is sad, & the timing was awful, but i was incredulous at how many of my college classmates had never in their lives attended a single *funeral* - ever.
Not a relative, not a friend's family member, no one; i wonder how they coped when inevitably, somebody died?
.
Having a pet who lives a briefer life can be one way to experience death without the devastation caused by of the loss of a parent, a dear friend, an older relative - the death is painful, of course, but it's not life-changing in the same way. // Please note i'm not belittling the hurt we feel, the real pain, of a pet's death... but the death of a pet mouse, a hamster, a budgie, is not in the same realm as the death of one's grandparent, a high-school classmate, a family member.
.
My best friend was orphaned when i was 14 - her father died of a heart-attack when she was 12, her mother of cancer 2-yrs later. She disappeared from our lives 48-hours later, when her aunt swooped in & carried her off from small-town Pennsy to southern Maryland, just outside Wash., D-C. Her older brothers were already adults; she was suddenly solo, in a very different place, with relatives she barely knew.
I was glad that i'd had some past experience of death & loss, before i lost any humans who were inexpressibly dear to me. // I think i'd been to at least 6 family funerals by the time i was 10 or 11; all distant relatives, recognizable characters but not key to my everyday life, & not unexpected. They were elderly, & not robust. I missed them, yes, but i was not stunned into immobility.
.
.
.


----------



## Jobeth

leashedForLife said:


> Jobeth said,
> 
> ...
> _I would say that whilst you should prepare for a dog living for 15 years, you also have to consider how the potential loss will impact on her.
> It was heartbreaking when [their retired Guide-dog adoptee] died in my nephew's arms, the day before my nephew's 16th birthday._
> _________________________
> .
> .
> That's true @Jobeth - but at the same time, every living being dies. // Ur nephew's loss is sad, & the timing was awful, but i was incredulous at how many of my college classmates had never in their lives attended a single *funeral* - ever.
> Not a relative, not a friend's family member, no one; i wonder how they coped when inevitably, somebody died?
> .
> Having a pet who lives a briefer life can be one way to experience death without the devastation caused by of the loss of a parent, a dear friend, an older relative - the death is painful, of course, but it's not life-changing in the same way. // Please note i'm not belittling the hurt we feel, the real pain, of a pet's death... but the death of a pet mouse, a hamster, a budgie, is not in the same realm as the death of one's grandparent, a high-school classmate, a family member.
> .
> My best friend was orphaned when i was 14 - her father died of a heart-attack when she was 12, her mother of cancer 2-yrs later. She disappeared from our lives 48-hours later, when her aunt swooped in & carried her off from small-town Pennsy to southern Maryland, just outside Wash., D-C. Her older brothers were already adults; she was suddenly solo, in a very different place, with relatives she barely knew.
> I was glad that i'd had some past experience of death & loss, before i lost any humans who were inexpressibly dear to me. // I think i'd been to at least 6 family funerals by the time i was 10 or 11; all distant relatives, recognizable characters but not key to my everyday life, & not unexpected. They were elderly, & not robust. I missed them, yes, but i was not stunned into immobility.
> .
> .
> .


I agree in general. However, when her 4 year old is already struggling to cope it is something that needs to be factored into the decision making process. I know loss is a part of life and loving. I also know that you can't live with lots of 'what if...' I just wonder whether she is currently resilient enough to cope if a puppy did make a difference and then something happened.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

leashedForLife said:


> Sled dog hotel, said,
> 
> _I was thinking more of general puppy ownership, and getting a puppy or dog because its cute, or it would be nice to have one, or because I/We want one, without any research of what it entails or what a commitment they are and will be for 14 years or longer.
> How many people probably purchase puppies for those reasons alone on a weekly or even daily basis._
> _________________________________________
> .
> .
> That's precisely why *pet-shop puppy sales* is such a bad idea - retailing cute little pups direct to the public, conveniently located in the same mall where U buy those great shoes on sale, or the Orange Julius frappe, & the knock-off designer dress?... What could _*possibly *_go wrong?
> Impulse buying a pup, with no idea of the conditions they were bred & reared in, no chance to meet the breeder or the sire & dam - or even the littermates! - no idea how big they'll grow, what the breed is generally like, their flaws & innate behaviors, coat care, possible health issues - it's a nightmare.
> .
> .
> .


Couldn't agree more, I actually felt like throwing something at the TV screen recently when I was watching (mainly out of boredom), a very popular reality UK TV show
to see just out of interest why its highly raved about. The jest was that one of the casts girlfriends who was moving in with him wanted a dog in one scene, several scenes later the boyfriend was in a pet shop with some mates, discussing it and with one holding what looked like a pug cross, they didn't show him actually buying it in the end, but what sort of message does that give? It makes me so mad that a reality TV show that probably influences a lot of people puts this sort of message across.
What message does that give? That its Ok and correct to buy one from a pet shop and it should be the place to go.


----------



## Laney_Lemons

I am very late to the thread, I have read the majority of everyone's posts, I get the OP might not be around anymore but i thought 'just incase' she is looking or comes back to check 

I agree with everyone else you cannot buy a dog based on a 4 year old *Needing* one and deciding from a picture which one is right for the family.... please do more research than this

Apparently when I was 4 or 5 yrs old I told my mum all I wanted from Santa was 2 things... my mum was delighted and thought great .. I asked for a pony and a field..... 
My mum nearly have a fit and needless to say i never got a pony nor a field, I think i got some woofing dog called scamp... ... If my mum gave in and got me a pony, i would have absolutely hated it after about 15mins... One sneezed on me when I was about 8yrs old and I still haven't forgotten nor forgiven them lol 

I am a single 30yr old, I have a partner, we chatted about one for i would say over a year we thought what a good idea a pup would be  We have no real responsibilities, no kids, one has a flexible job, owned our own house, my mum and dad would jump into help to still have a social life, researched breeds, wanted a rescue... though a whippet would be perfect... dogs trust produced a Whippet x poodle ... we though brilliant this is a dog for us... We brought him home and I cried for about 4 days... Pup Cried for four days, both of us didn't sleep... puppy blues set in and i thought 'what have I done' 

All i can say is it the first 8months were hard, toilet training was a nightmare, he was bouncing off the walls hyper, he nipped, jumped in faces, tore apart my 3 year old sofa  , pulled clothes and still has a fetish for destroying socks..

They may look cute but puppies are the devils in disguise .. 


please think carefully before fully committing, they are for life and you can just decide its not working and off the puppy goes. 

I hope you take everyone's comments on board and seriously. 

I dont know ur family life, that is non of my biz , A pup could help, but again it might cause more problems
and stress already in a fragile environment.


----------



## Jackie C

Please, please, don't get a puppy. There are dozens of charities who offer therapy for children who love animals, which involve special dogs who are trained and have the right temperament to be amongst children with special needs. You get all the benefits without the messiness and expense.


----------



## Woofwoof3&*

Nesa said:


> hello everyone
> 
> I hope someone can help point me in the right direction
> 
> My 4year old daughter is going through a very difficult time and wants a puppy. So far she liked the pictures of golden retrievers and i have read that their calm presence is therapeutic
> 
> It needs to be a puppy as thats all she wants
> 
> I am hoping a dog will help her heal and there is no way i can pay for one as they are too expensive
> 
> I checked shelters and they dont have any puppies and i definitely dont want a dog with issues as this dog needs to be a source of peace to her
> 
> Please do you know anyone that will donate a puppy to us i can only pay £100
> 
> Please help asap as nothing is working for my daughter anymore and this is our only hope
> 
> We live in London but i could collect in the surrounding areas
> 
> I live alone with my daughter
> 
> Thank you


I would suggest trying 'borrow my doggie' while you wait for a dog. It's a way you and your daughter can look after, play with or walk someone else's dog/puppy for a bit. Lots of people do it to get used to a dog and get their doggie fix whilst waiting for a dog. You can do anything for take it for a walk to looking after it whilst owners on Holliday. Have a look at their website. If your daughter is autistic there are organisations that can train and provide a dog that is specifically trained to help children with autism 'assistance dogs UK' alternatively they have a Paws service which can help you learn how to get the most out of your own dog for children with difficulties. I also recommend going to look at dog rescue shelters just to again get used tl dogs and get a dog fix. You might learn about anf find other breeds/dogs that your daughter likes and this might be a way of broadening her requirements. A golden retriever is very specific and hard to come by. If she sees other cute dogs she may realise that breed isn't the be all and end all. Just thinking of ways you could socialise and get your daughter out and about whilst you come up with a solution. It will also help you assess your energy needs. If you find yourself being unable to get out twice a day to a park of field or open area then you may need to reconsider what breed you go for based on their energy requirements. Even if your a pro athlete, if your daughter doesn't want to leave the house twice a day and you have no-one to look after her whilst you go, then you won't be able to have a high energy breed. Good luck to you and your daughter. I'd like to know what you end up doing. X


----------



## lorilu

Nesa said:


> I appreciate these specific answers but please dont exagerate meaning well but lets just be realistic.


I suggest you read some of the puppy threads on this board. Then you might understand that people are not exaggerating about what having a puppy entails.



Nesa said:


> f it doesnt help then at least i tried.


And then what happens to the puppy?

One of the things that really disturbs me about your posts is the way you keep saying your 4 year old is "ashamed of her anger outbursts". A four year old does not understand the concept of feeling ashamed, and is only just starting to learn about impulse control, unless someone has told her she should feel ashamed. Which tells me, when the puppy doesn't act like the stuffed animal you expect him to, it will be the puppy's fault.

<edit> just realized most of this thread happened 11 days ago. OP probably won't be back until the puppy is crying, peeing and pooping, biting and tearing up the little girl's toys and clothes, asking how she can dump him because he "won't listen"


----------



## Louises_08

Hi. I feel this conversation has lost its way slightly.
I am new on here but not new to owning animals. I have 3 children all adults now and can completely understand where you are coming from.
Having a child with special needs (when I use this term I am not belittling any child or their issues) is as hard as having a puppy but the puppy learns quicker than a child. Whilst I can understand where the other replies are stating its a huge committment, if you haven't walked a mile in someone elses shoes you simply don't know how it feels!
Having a puppy (an unwanted, house trained one) will certainly help the situation. Getting a child into a routine as well as a puppy could be fantastic. Their bond will be tighter than glue! They both get exercise and let's face it dogs are blummin good listeners.
I don't think that this mum has in anyway rushed into anything but having a child go through a difficult time is a nightmare and straws can be grasped.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's as much as your responsibility to train the dog as it is to teach your daughter how to deal with the dog.

If I may suggest joining a nearby rescue centre and volunteer to walk a few dogs at the same time of day every day for a week and see if your daughter changes at all. Then you could chat to the rescue center about adopting.

I wish you all the best and hope you both find what you are looking for.

L xxx


----------



## elmthesofties

Louises_08 said:


> Hi. I feel this conversation has lost its way slightly.
> I am new on here but not new to owning animals. I have 3 children all adults now and can completely understand where you are coming from.
> Having a child with special needs (when I use this term I am not belittling any child or their issues) is as hard as having a puppy but the puppy learns quicker than a child. Whilst I can understand where the other replies are stating its a huge committment, if you haven't walked a mile in someone elses shoes you simply don't know how it feels!
> Having a puppy (an unwanted, house trained one) will certainly help the situation. Getting a child into a routine as well as a puppy could be fantastic. Their bond will be tighter than glue! They both get exercise and let's face it dogs are blummin good listeners.
> I don't think that this mum has in anyway rushed into anything but having a child go through a difficult time is a nightmare and straws can be grasped.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is it's as much as your responsibility to train the dog as it is to teach your daughter how to deal with the dog.
> 
> If I may suggest joining a nearby rescue centre and volunteer to walk a few dogs at the same time of day every day for a week and see if your daughter changes at all. Then you could chat to the rescue center about adopting.
> 
> I wish you all the best and hope you both find what you are looking for.
> 
> L xxx


My only thought about posts like this is how it's incredibly, incredibly irresponsible to give such advice.


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## Nonnie

Wasnt there a member on here that purchased a GR puppy for their autistic son (from a service dog breeder/supplier), and it ended up a nightmare with the puppy being rehomed?


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## Calvine

@Louises_08: OP hasn't been around for two weeks; I rather think she has decided what she wants to do and has maybe already done it.


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## Guest

Louises_08 said:


> Having a puppy (an unwanted, house trained one) will certainly help the situation.


Puppies come in the housetrained version? Huh... this is new information to me.


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## Siskin

Nonnie said:


> Wasnt there a member on here that purchased a GR puppy for their autistic son (from a service dog breeder/supplier), and it ended up a nightmare with the puppy being rehomed?


There was, well remembered. Poor pup didn't last too long before she was wanting it to go.


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## Louises_08

elmthesofties said:


> My only thought about posts like this is how it's incredibly, incredibly irresponsible to give such advice.


Wow I didn't realise that supporting a parent and suggesting dog walking was irresponsible!! Slapped wrists for me!!
From what I have read on here there is a lot of people pouncing on the poor lady (like what has happened to me) and saying "don't do that, you don't know what you are talking about...." when the lady was asking for advice. Whilst a few have been positive. A guinea pig isn't the same as a dog. I understand that teaching a youngster responsibility but this lady wants (from what I can understand) a companion for her as well as her daughter.

There is a lot of children who have helping dogs and ultimately it's the parent that has the responsibility over both!


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## Rafa




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## Louises_08

ouesi said:


> Puppies come in the housetrained version? Huh... this is new information to me.


A puppy is surely a young dog?!?!


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## Rafa

Louises_08 said:


> A puppy is surely a young dog?!?!


Is it?

Well, you learn something every day.

Puppies do not normally come fully housetrained. A point you seem to have missed.


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## Guest

Louises_08 said:


> A puppy is surely a young dog?!?!


A puppy is a puppy and puppies don't come potty trained. 
In fact even adult dogs in new homes sometimes need some sort of potty training.


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## SusieRainbow

ouesi said:


> A puppy is a puppy and puppies don't come potty trained.
> In fact even adult dogs in new homes sometimes need some sort of potty training.


As did both mine.


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## Louises_08

I am well aware that they don't all come house-trained and a puppy is a young dog typically under the age of 1.

A dog in need of love and affection could work wonders for that child. There are thousands of dogs in need of a stable home.


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## elmthesofties

Louises_08 said:


> Wow I didn't realise that supporting a parent and suggesting dog walking was irresponsible!! Slapped wrists for me!!
> From what I have read on here there is a lot of people pouncing on the poor lady (like what has happened to me) and saying "don't do that, you don't know what you are talking about...." when the lady was asking for advice. Whilst a few have been positive. A guinea pig isn't the same as a dog. I understand that teaching a youngster responsibility but this lady wants (from what I can understand) a companion for her as well as her daughter.
> 
> There is a lot of children who have helping dogs and ultimately it's the parent that has the responsibility over both!


Clearly that was not what I was referencing to.
Your only suggestion is that this mysterious 'unwanted' pup be house-trained, and that they will _certainly_ help. Absolutely foolproof. No need to worry about the fact that behavioural issues from poorly bred dogs don't usually come to the surface until the pup is several months old.

The woman in the original post showed absolutely no compassion towards the potential puppy. If things don't go perfectly, just get rid of the dog.

In any case, the dog walking probably wouldn't work because I'm not sure rescues would be happy to have a 4 year old child accompanying on the walk.


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## 8tansox

I've dipped in and out of this thread, wondering whether I should add my two penneth, but here goes. 

Last year I had a lady contact me who had just bought her autistic child, a Golden Retriever puppy. She wanted training for the puppy... The mum, child and neighbour came along to a lesson with their puppy, who was absolutely adorable, and the little girl, around 7 was given everything she wanted - she was autistic and that's the way the family wanted to treat her. The girl gave me no eye contact during the entire lesson, which is okay, as I involved the mum in the training specifically. I really disliked the way the child picked the puppy up, I disliked the way she steam rollered her way around everyone and everything but, the child (I was told) adored the puppy. I couldn't see anything of the sort when watching them together. No interaction or affection I could see at all. 

The following lesson was cancelled, the dog had gone back to its breeder. The child didn't want the dog after all, she wanted a toy... 

I'm just another one who thinks children should not demand a dog / puppy, for what ever reason. It's a little life; now that puppy I was talking about has gone back to breeder (thank God) but having had no doubt a traumatic experience with this child, because she wanted one, for a few days... 

Grow up, be a parent and say no if it's not what YOU want 100%.


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## Rafa

Louises_08 said:


> I am well aware that they don't all come house-trained and a puppy is a young dog typically under the age of 1.
> 
> A dog in need of love and affection could work wonders for that child. There are thousands of dogs in need of a stable home.


Are you a trained Professional in this field?

A puppy could be a good thing, but then again, it could be a disaster.

If the child was wanting a stuffed toy, then yes, buy it, but bringing a young animal into the situation is a big risk and what happens to the pup if it turns out to have been a mistake?


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## simplysardonic

Louises_08 said:


> I am well aware that they don't all come house-trained and a puppy is a young dog typically under the age of 1.
> 
> A dog in need of love and affection could work wonders for that child. There are thousands of dogs in need of a stable home.


And it could also go horribly wrong.

What happens to that poor dog who needed a stable home then?


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## Guest

8tansox said:


> I've dipped in and out of this thread, wondering whether I should add my two penneth, but here goes.
> 
> Last year I had a lady contact me who had just bought her autistic child, a Golden Retriever puppy. She wanted training for the puppy... The mum, child and neighbour came along to a lesson with their puppy, who was absolutely adorable, and the little girl, around 7 was given everything she wanted - she was autistic and that's the way the family wanted to treat her. The girl gave me no eye contact during the entire lesson, which is okay, as I involved the mum in the training specifically. I really disliked the way the child picked the puppy up, I disliked the way she steam rollered her way around everyone and everything but, the child (I was told) adored the puppy. I couldn't see anything of the sort when watching them together. No interaction or affection I could see at all.
> 
> The following lesson was cancelled, the dog had gone back to its breeder. The child didn't want the dog after all, she wanted a toy...
> 
> I'm just another one who thinks children should not demand a dog / puppy, for what ever reason. It's a little life; now that puppy I was talking about has gone back to breeder (thank God) but having had no doubt a traumatic experience with this child, because she wanted one, for a few days...
> 
> Grow up, be a parent and say no if it's not what YOU want 100%.


Not liking for the content, because the content is sad on many levels, but liking for the message.

I wanted my children to grow up with dogs, and indeed the relationship between dog and child can be absolutely beautiful. But we did not get dogs on the children's whim, we were dog owners before the kids came along and continued to be after the kids came.


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## SusieRainbow

Louises_08 said:


> I am well aware that they don't all come house-trained and a puppy is a young dog typically under the age of 1.
> 
> A dog in need of love and affection could work wonders for that child. There are thousands of dogs in need of a stable home.


I think this is the whole point of this debate, whether the puppy WOULD have a stable home.


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## Jackie C

The title of the thread being, "I _need_ a golden retriever puppy for _free_" certainly sets off many alarm bells. And the OP didn't seem to understand the life-long commitment that a cute puppy growing into a large dog entails.

It makes me sad that some people show signs of having an entitlement complex, or think their child is the centre of the universe. Of course, I feel for a parent who has a child with special needs, but a dog is a living animal that has many, many physical and emotional needs. A dog can be a lovely companion, and may be of benefit to a child, but a child is a child and we as adults have to be their advocate and make the sensible decisions, which might not necessarily be what the child demands on that day. 
What if the child teases the dog? And the dog happens to be in a mood and nips? This is what dogs can do. Will the child be taught respect for the animal, or will the child simply hit the dog back? Eventually leading to the poor dog being re-homed again, because it isn't what Little Princess wanted?

The OP wanted the perfect dog, and under the circumstances, it is far from the right thing. Especially when there are charity organisations who can offer alternatives.


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## lullabydream

Am very late to the party...

What a thread...

Reading through this thread am not sure that the child even has special needs...terrible twos..can last till three year olds, and its temper tantrum galore...was wondering if this was the 'anger issue' problem. Especially as the comment..no anger issue now which may be true...By law, the child would not necessarily have to be at school, and if noted to be classed as having additional needs, the likelihood is the child would have started school early.

Quite scary and valid points all round.

Idealistic view of puppy/dog ownership vs what its actually is like falling on deaf ears, and people only scratched the surface on the worse of owning puppies/dogs.

Hope this thread helps people make more educated decisions in the future.


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## rescuecollieChip

Maybe you could try and look after someone's dog for a weekend or something to get a taste for it. Gradually build it up, and then maybe foster. There are plenty of dogs in pounds and shelter desperate for a home. From your description of the situation, my first instinct would be go for an older dog. They will (generally) be calmer and more forgiving around your daughter. 
Don't have your heart set on one breed though. GRs and Labs probably are the best option (though mongrels and crossbreeds are also great!) but they also have a hefty price tag! You can get a healthy GR puppy for around £600 minimum, but an older one whose owner's circumstances have changed will probably be free or only maximum £100. 
My advice would be don't dive in head first, but take your time. I am my dog's third owner, maybe more during his time as a stray, all because they couldn't cope. They are a life time commitment, and they are also very costly. My neighbour's dog has just had an operation costing them over £400, as the insurance company managed to slip out of it with a clever excuse. 
But you don't have to get your own dog! Look after other people's, go down to the dog park and meet them there, or go to a dog competition and there will always be a few people willing to let you have a cuddle session with their dog! It will save you time, money and effort. When I first got my dog he barked all night, every night, for months, wasn't house trained, and was absolutely terrified. Dogs are hard-work!


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## leashedForLife

.
.
I'm a big advocate for dogs & kids, together - but a child with poor impulse control, anger issues, & who moreover lacks empathy, is [pardon my blunt speech] a p*ss-poor prospect to be a great pal for a sensitive puppy... And * ALL * PUPPIES * are emotionally sensitive. I don't give a fig if said pup is a Mastiff or a Maltese, pups are easily cowed & have long memories for hurtful behavior or bad frights.
.
* IMO, the OP is setting herself, her dotter, & the pup up to fail - & the one who'll be hurt the most long-term is the puppy.
* An adult dog who is ALREADY housetrained, has manners, & adores children despite experience living with them, is a far-better risk. *But... * there's no guarantee that this will be a match made in Heaven, & the little missie may decide she hates the dog / is bored by dogs / is scared of the dog [even tho the dog does nothing to justify such fear], etc.
.
Fostering, with the dog continuing to be the property & responsibility of the rescue group, is a much-better option; if U get a dog who hits it off, dandy! -- Adopt her or him. if not, just let them go to the family who applies to adopt her or him, & maybe the next one will be a good match.
That will give the whole family a chance to meet multiple dogs, learn what living with a dog entails, & discover if they like it - or if they would prefer their dogs to be polyester plush & foam-filled.
.
.
.


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## Calvine

OP has been off-radar for a month as far as I can see and has probably done what she wanted without heeding the advice given..


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## Mirandashell

Nice to see the purple writing again! Welcome back!


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## Mr.YogiBear

simplysardonic said:


> No.
> 
> You need to be researching now, not a couple of weeks before you get a dog, not when the dog is there, but now, & research for several months before even thinking about approaching a rescue or breeder for a dog.
> 
> You need to be spending time with dogs, around dogs, attending doggy events, meeting doggy people, even just going for a walk with a neighbour or family member with a dog is a start.
> 
> You need to be experiencing in all its tangibility what living with a dog is actually like, because it's nothing like the romanticising & anthropomorphising the films or the books portray it as.
> 
> That is the only responsible way to go about things.


I agree. I researched newfs for two years and walked my friends dog for about a year, groomed him, even trained him a trick or two; I thought about how to introduce the dog with BooBoo, Cookie, and Cream (my cats) and looked at training groups in my area. I researched different behavioural problems, a few ways to overcome them etc and yet I still didn't feel prepared when we actually got Yogi, second guessing every thing I was doing with him.... you need to prepare and do research before taking 'the plunge'. Half the time dogs end up in rescue simply because the puppy buyer thought they were cute, but didn't do their research.... I strongly advise OP to follow SimplySardonic's advice.



Nesa said:


> No i dont need to train for months to get a dog. If you have common sense and obviously advice and some plan to follow that should be ok. stop exagerating


Simply was NOT exaggerating.


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## Mr.YogiBear

Sorry I didn't realise how old this thread was...


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