# I was stupid!



## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

I am the first to admit it!!! We bought a Border Collie yesterday as a companion for our 2 year old BC bitch. We bought a male and were told he was 8 weeks old so we brought him home yesterday. It appears that he may only be 6 weeks old! 

He is a beautiful natured puppy and under no circumstances will I return him as I called the breeder today and he said he should know when the puppies were born! Chances are if I return our beloved Chip, he will only be sold onto someone else who may not be as keen to ensure he has a better start.

If anyone as any advice on how to make sure he gets the right socialisation etc could you let me know please. 

We got our other BC at 20 weeks old after her being passed from pillar to post, we were her third home! She was a huge handful to start with but with lots of love and patience she has turned into a beautiful girl :001_smile:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

It might not be so bad - your bitch will teach him a lot.


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

Houseofpets said:


> I am the first to admit it!!! We bought a Border Collie yesterday as a companion for our 2 year old BC bitch. We bought a male and were told he was 8 weeks old so we brought him home yesterday. It appears that he may only be 6 weeks old!
> 
> He is a beautiful natured puppy and under no circumstances will I return him as I called the breeder today and he said he should know when the puppies were born! Chances are if I return our beloved Chip, he will only be sold onto someone else who may not be as keen to ensure he has a better start.
> 
> ...


Ok becasue he isn't with his mum he will need to learn that nipping hurts that little bit more as mum teaches them so much in the last 2 weeks as i am sure you will know.

To keep him socalized find some friends that have vaccinated dogs and tkae him to meet and greet people EVERYWHERE. the more he sees and does the higher his chances.

Make sure he is eating fully on solids if not water them down a little. As he has you older dog she will help teach him some of his nips HURT. etc.

Work with him like you would an 8 week old but be more patient. the key here is Socialize. SOme vets will vaccinate as early as 6 weeks so see if yours will the sooner he is the sooner you can get him out and about. Puppy classes as well will be a great benefit to him. My vets hold free puppy classes!

Good luck and we would love to see pics too

x


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I got my last dog at 6 weeks old, it was just how things were done back then a lot of the time and I didnt know about the 8 week rule, he was very bitey as a puppy but once he had grown/been trained out of that he was the most amazing dog you could ever hope to own. I followed a book called The perfect puppy by Gwen Bailey with him to stop the biting (and general training).


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> I am the first to admit it!!! We bought a Border Collie yesterday as a companion for our 2 year old BC bitch. We bought a male and were told he was 8 weeks old so we brought him home yesterday. It appears that he may only be 6 weeks old!
> 
> He is a beautiful natured puppy and under no circumstances will I return him as I called the breeder today and he said he should know when the puppies were born! Chances are if I return our beloved Chip, he will only be sold onto someone else who may not be as keen to ensure he has a better start.
> 
> ...


Thankfully you have already had border collie experience, and with one that wasnt the easiest too, and shes turned out ok, so if she had to go early to anyone shes gone to the right place by the sounds of it.

Ideally he of course should have had another couple of weeks, with mum and litter mates, its where they learn things like bite inhibition through play with each other and mum disciplining them if they go too far. Luckily you have your other one to complete more canine socialisation with, hopefully shes a strong enough personality to give him some boundaries if he goes over the top. If things do get too much and he starts to annoy her and doesnt take notice, then personally I think I would call a halt to their play, here and there by separating him to let him calm down.

Puppies start to notice other things and form attractions to people around 5/7 weeks, so even though he cant go out and walk as such, there is nothing to stop you introducing him to visitors, taking him for short trips in the car, and even carrying about on short trips up the road, so he gets used to sights and sounds. as long as you dont put him on the ground or let him come into any direct contact with dogs he should be fine. You need to do kind firm fair
gentle handling of him too.

They can have a fear impact stage around 8 weeks or so, so any experiences
around then try to make them positive.

Hope this might help.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Hopefully he will learn a lot from your girl as the others have said - the problem you might have is if your girl is submissive and refuses to tell him off (Although my next pup was slightly older than yours, I had this problem with my eldest) - now (up to 7 ) she puts the youngsters firmly in their place. 

Can I ask why you think he may only be 6 as opposed to 8 weeks?

Obviously, you can't socialise him outside until he has had all his jabs - but if your girl won't 'rise to the challenge' - you can take him to other people's house who have dogs providing their jabs are up to date.

Good luck - what's done is done - we all make mistakes at some time, and pup is with you now so it's not really a 'mistake' any more  I hope things work out


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your advice, I feel so much better knowing that he should be OK. We are looking at getting him vaccinated on Tuesday and then seeing about puppy classes.

Here are some piccies of him - he has found his feet today and is going to be a real handful by the looks of him!!! lol


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## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

Aww he looks like he's going to be a right little mischief. 

Love the pic of them both where your older girl is looking at him lovingly, it's sweet.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hes really sweet, has got a naughty look about him though, but very cute with it, can see why the unexperienced get taken in with these pups, and end up wound round their furry little paws:lol:


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

Pics are gorgeous - hope he settles in well. At least it sounds like he has fallen on his feet with someone who not only knows BCs but also knows to expect problems.

Good luck with him.

x


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Lucy is very good with him and not at all submissive. He tried to suckle from her earlier today and she curled her lips and when he continued she snapped in the air. He very quickly learnt that it wasn't appropriate and hasn't tried since.

Lucy is a Daddies girl really so he is still giving her loads of attention and cuddles so she doesn't feel left out. I think she will be great with Chip once he gets a little bigger and they can play together, at the moment she more or less ignores him unless the cats get too close to Chip and then she steps in between them to move the cat away.

Definately a lesson learnt though in doing more research into the people selling the pups before buying one, although I am glad we have him.

*Swarthy*, in answer to your quesiton, we think he is nearer 6 weeks old as he is very unsteady on his feet, looking at youtube footage of puppies of 6 weeks he is so much smaller and only weighs 1.5kgs. His eyes also still have a hint of blue in them.


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

they are beautiful xx

He is so cute x


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> Lucy is very good with him and not at all submissive. He tried to suckle from her earlier today and she curled her lips and when he continued she snapped in the air. He very quickly learnt that it wasn't appropriate and hasn't tried since.
> 
> Lucy is a Daddies girl really so he is still giving her loads of attention and cuddles so she doesn't feel left out. I think she will be great with Chip once he gets a little bigger and they can play together, at the moment she more or less ignores him unless the cats get too close to Chip and then she steps in between them to move the cat away.
> 
> ...


Well done Lucy, sounds so far she knows exactly whats shes doing, giving him boundaries, but at the same time looking after him.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Thanks Candysmum - he is very cute but has a naughty streak in there somewhere I'm sure! :tongue_smilie:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

If the breeder has given you a date of birth rather than just a vague age I would assume they do know when the litter was born.

It used to be normal for pups to go to new homes at 6 weeks - and if they are not being well reared it is not a bad idea. Dogs didnt have problems, most dogs were far better balanced than the average dog today.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Breeder has given us a birth date as the 2 March and that makes him 8 weeks this coming Wednesday.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

> It used to be normal for pups to go to new homes at 6 weeks - and if they are not being well reared it is not a bad idea.


Its never been normal for puppies to go to new homes at 6 weeks, and certainly never normal from a decent ethical breeder. Puppies have so much to learn from their mother, that extra two weeks can make all that difference.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> *Swarthy*, in answer to your quesiton, we think he is nearer 6 weeks old as he is very unsteady on his feet, looking at youtube footage of puppies of 6 weeks he is so much smaller and only weighs 1.5kgs. His eyes also still have a hint of blue in them.


Poor little thing bless him, it does sound a little dubious from how you describe him, unfortunately, only the breeder knows the real date the pups were born, it doesn't mean he has reflected this in his paperwork 

It sounds like you are going to be lucky with your girl, so I think you can be reassured that he will learn a lot of what he needs to, and you sound good experienced owners who will get him out there and socialise him and do right by him, he is lucky to have found you.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Its never been normal for puppies to go to new homes at 6 weeks, and certainly never normal from a decent ethical breeder. Puppies have so much to learn from their mother, that extra two weeks can make all that difference.


erm, I think maybe you are younger than me, I can assure you 6 weeks was the normal age for puppies to leave their mothers and they came to no harm for it and dogs were treated as one of the family and did not have all the problems they do now.
My first litter was about 35 years ago and it was getting to be normal for pups to be 8 weeks but a well known breeder brought someone to choose a pup and wanted me to let it go at 6 weeks.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

It's not that unusual for pups to go at 6 weeks. As far as I was aware, there is less psychological damage done of they go at 6 weeks than if they go after 12 weeks.

All of my BCs bar one came to me at 6 weeks (from the same breeder, who is a very good, well respected breeder). Interestingly, the only one I got a 8 weeks is the one with kinda wierd behaviour (I know that doesn't prove anything).

Is there any evidence that 6 weeks is too young? I'd like to read any links anyone could give. I'm always open to change my mind!


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## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

Aww! lubbly girls!  good luck


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

He is Gorgeous so is your other BC im sure he will be fine good luck enjoy  woman in my area breeds Lhasa apsos sells every litter at 6 weeks


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## kirk68 (Apr 19, 2011)

He is so cute but he does look a little young from the photos. Look like he's going to be a real handfull when he settles in a bit more lol


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

he is defo not 8 weeks old 









this is one of my puppies i sold at 8 weeks old in his new home taken the same day he left at exactly 8 weeks old , am sure he will be fine and your bitch will teach him alot


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Leoti, thank you so much for that picture - I can certainly see the size difference. We took him to the pet shop this morning (carried only and not allowed on the floor) so that we can get him social and used to noises , people etc and met a lady there who used to breed collies and she confirmed that he is no where near 8 weeks, more likely to be about 5!! 

Poor chap, I can't believe we were so stupid not to realise (we got our last collie at 20 weeks so never saw the small puppy stage). He was also full of worms, we have seen plenty of them over the last 36 hours (breeder said he has wormed them - again we believed him). I can't believe people can be so cruel as to get rid of them when they know how old they need to be in order to be socialised, manners taught etc. We did say to the breeder we met this morning that under no circumstances were we going to return him as he would only be sold on, we know we are in for a long, possibly rough ride to ensure he is social, has manners etc but ultimately it is our fault and we owe it to him to do the right thing.

He is a dear sweet little thing but is going to need lots of 'special' training and nurturing for him to be an all round loveable lump like my 2 year old.


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## Debxan (Jan 9, 2011)

Houseofpets said:


> Leoti, thank you so much for that picture - I can certainly see the size difference. We took him to the pet shop this morning (carried only and not allowed on the floor) so that we can get him social and used to noises , people etc and met a lady there who used to breed collies and she confirmed that he is no where near 8 weeks, more likely to be about 5!!
> 
> Poor chap, I can't believe we were so stupid not to realise (we got our last collie at 20 weeks so never saw the small puppy stage). He was also full of worms, we have seen plenty of them over the last 36 hours (breeder said he has wormed them - again we believed him). I can't believe people can be so cruel as to get rid of them when they know how old they need to be in order to be socialised, manners taught etc. We did say to the breeder we met this morning that under no circumstances were we going to return him as he would only be sold on, we know we are in for a long, possibly rough ride to ensure he is social, has manners etc but ultimately it is our fault and we owe it to him to do the right thing.
> 
> He is a dear sweet little thing but is going to need lots of 'special' training and nurturing for him to be an all round loveable lump like my 2 year old.


This is terrible - 5 weeks old! Full of worms! Some people just don't care and are just using dogs to make money.

However, don't blame youself, you clearly are going to do the right thing as you say and give little Chip a good, loving home. Perhaps he is a lucky little dog. Look forward to updates on how he gets on.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

He sleeps an awful lot and eats like a horse but we are sure that will change once we get on top of the worm problem. 

Our 2 yr old Collie is allergic to e-numbers so we feed her Autarky dry food mixed with Naturediet food. We have got the puppy onto Autarky puppy and Naturediet puppy (half and half), is this enough for a puppy so young or should we be giving milk to him still?


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Goats milk till they are 12 wks, ready brek, or farleys rusk, scrambled egg, 2 meaty meals, & 2 milky meals.









Rolo at 8wks.








this is Rolo at 10 wks








This is Rolo at 12 wks.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Here is a picture of Chip taken about 10 mins ago, he is up against my Husband's size 11 shoe - comparing to the 8 week puppy Chip is tiny :-(


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I would have a 5 week old pup on 5 small meals a day of a good quality puppy food.

Depending on how he is with food generally - either soak it until soft and then feed either mashed or unmashed dependent on the pup - I usually mash until about 6 weeks.

I also give goats milk and my pups have rice pudding - I also introduce them to other foods such as chicken, beef and fish etc as I find it strengthens their constitution.

He sounds like he is lucky to have found you - I did 'suspect' about 5 weeks from how you described him - what's the matter with these people? 

With regards to worming, I don't know what the vet has given you - but certainly if it is panacur paste, I always use it after feeding as I find their little tummies get quite gripey otherwise. 

At this age, he will have bursts of play and sleep anyway - I don't know whether the worms would accentuate this or not (touch wood) - he will probably be around 8/9 weeks before you will really starting seeing more normal puppy behaviour - make the most of the time he is sleeping now and use it to get him used to the processes you intend to put in place for him - I always start crate training my litters at around the 5/6 week mark for those owners who will use a crate when they go home - putting them into a large crate in groups of 3 or 4 and then moving them all around and reducing the numbers until they get short stints on their own by around 7 weeks.


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

From the pics you've posted he looks about 5 weeks old.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

OMG, the poor little guy :-(

Hairydog & Swarthy - I have just been out on a reckie to get him some goats milk, farleys rusks and ready brek - can you advise what quantities he should be having please? 

I am more than happy to feed him as required and for as often and as long as he needs it but could you advise if you think it would be more beneficial for me to find him a 'foster' family of pups so that he can develop better until he is about 8/9 weeks? I will do all I can for him and hope it's the best but not sure I will be all he needs? What do you think? 

Panacur paste was given by the vets, he has finished his final dose today so will do him again as vet advises. 

The breeder had already let one of the puppies go on Wednesday of last week and he was going to sell another one on Friday after we picked up Chip, is it worth me reporting this guy or won't it make any difference?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> OMG, the poor little guy :-(
> 
> Hairydog & Swarthy - I have just been out on a reckie to get him some goats milk, farleys rusks and ready brek - can you advise what quantities he should be having please?


I have no idea on the rusks as I would be using a good quality puppy food at this age - it has the nutrients he needs.

Assuming the poor little fella hasn't been weaned fully, I would be maybe soaking a rusk or two to start off with with some goats milk and cooled boiled water - don't make it too mushy - and prepare for a bit of a mess 

Try and get a good puppy food tomorrow - Pro-Plan, Royal Canine, Arden Grange etc - and slowly introduce this to him.

Don't panic if he gets a bit of a dicky tummy - try not to introduce too much in one go, let him adjust.

NB: If he gets the runs, keep the rusks on hand if they don't upset him as a substitute for the puppy food - and very most importantly - DO NOT risk letting him get dehydrated.

HTH a little


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

OK dont panic, this is a diet sheet from my Bearded Collie breeder.
Upto 12 wks approx.
4 meals p/day , 2 milk & 2 meat, ie complete dog food soaked, for the meaty meals.On the back of each dog food is a guide to how much to give them, weigh out in the morning & divide in to 2 meals.This has got to be soaked in warm water 5 mins prior to feeding, soak less as he gets older.I generally add some minced lamb, beef or chicken, in the free flow packs from supermarkets, i also did scrambled egg & chopped sausage, he loved this, or sardines & pilchards, i found by using all the various foods at an early stage it toughens up their digestion.
For the milky meals, rice pudding, weetabix, or porridge or pharleys rusks made with goats milk, and you can add a small spoonfull of live natural yogourt which helps the probiotic system to kickstart, also ideal milk can be used in the cereals, it really is trial and error, he will love some of this and hate some of this, raw carrots & apples to crunch on as well.
At 12 wksyou can go down to 3 meals p/day -2meat & i milk, i still give him goats milk to drink.
He is 10 mnths old now and is in super condition, when i told the vet what he was fed as a new pup, she replied' a diet made for champions' his complete food is Wafcol. Hope this helps you.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Chip is still trying to suckle from our hands and from the other dogs and cats so I am guessing he wasn't fully weaned, he also makes a noise when he is hungry. 

We have him on Naturediet puppy at the moment and Autarky puppy food (kibble type food that we soak) in half and half mix. His tummy was a lot better this morning but he has got a poorly tummy again this evening, he is also trying to find cold places to lay on (stone fire place, vinyl kitchen flooring, patio stones etc). He is due back at the vets tomorrow, he is still very stumbly and they want to check his neurological status (hope it's just his age that is causing it). 

We are going to hold off with his vaccinations for a couple of weeks so that he can get a little bit stronger.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

don't do the vaccs for ages, let the poor mite get over all this trauma
poor wee thing


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

In a way I am so very glad we have him, he obviously wasn't being looked after - I feel so bad for all the other puppies in the litter and hope their new Mummies and Daddies can look after them seeing as they are so young. 

Unfortunately all we have really done is taken this litter away for him to produce some more again next year - it seems anyone can breed as and when they please with no real conditions on it at all and can doctor the paperwork to read what they want. 

Still, we have little Chipolata now and will do our very best to make sure he gets the best of care and attention.

He has gone back to sleep now in his crate, cuddling up to his Eeyore teddy x


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> Chip is still trying to suckle from our hands and from the other dogs and cats so I am guessing he wasn't fully weaned, he also makes a noise when he is hungry.
> 
> We have him on Naturediet puppy at the moment and Autarky puppy food (kibble type food that we soak) in half and half mix. His tummy was a lot better this morning but he has got a poorly tummy again this evening, he is also trying to find cold places to lay on (stone fire place, vinyl kitchen flooring, patio stones etc). He is due back at the vets tomorrow, he is still very stumbly and they want to check his neurological status (hope it's just his age that is causing it).
> 
> We are going to hold off with his vaccinations for a couple of weeks so that he can get a little bit stronger.


Don't worry about the suckling - pups will still try and suckle even after they have been fully weaned 

I know people have given you diet suggestions - but I wouldn't 'throw' him into anything as his tummy is still going to be quite delicate - gradually work him up to the 4 reasonable sized meals by around 7 weeks - I do 5 up until 7 weeks.

Obviously - always make sure there is lots of fluid available - and if needs be - put a dash of goats milk in it if he is reluctant to drink straight water - it's important normally they don't get dehydrated - but even moreso with this hot weather we are getting.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

We were giving him 4 meals a day but will decrease the portion size slightly and split it over 5 until he is about 7 weeks old.

He is just having a little bit of egg and goats milk which he seems to like Hopefully that will help him settle at night as he struggles to go for more than 2 hours at a time without needing some sort of reassurance. He is currently sleeping in our room as he is so small, is this a bad habit to get him into as eventually he will be sleeping on the landing with our older BC? 

Also we are trying to put our hands in his bowl when he is eating so that he gets used to food being taken away from him, should we be trying this so early or just leave him for a couple of weeks to see how he goes?


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

All my pups have slept with me in a crate, in my bedroom til they can handle the stairs and are toilet trained, they are then given the full run of the house after that, & they all end up sleeping downstairs at their own free will for the cold floors, you wouldnt leave a new born baby downstairsm so why leave a puppy??Dont beat your self up about it, your choice, some people are really funny about it, but i like my dogs to sleep where they want, it also settles much easier and my pup NEVER had me up in the night never!!!!Cos he knew we where there, so he was calm and relaxed, and i must say Rolo is the most well adjusted dog we have ever had.


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

Houseofpets here is a piccy of one of my pups aged 4.5 weeks old so you can see the size difference


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Rolo is a stunningly beautiful boy hairydog :smile:

Chip isn't very active today, hoping it's because he was a busy little chap yesterday. We have a vets appointment for him later today (second visit to them today, first one was for my elderly old boy, he gets nervous of the vets so took him on his own so I could give him lots of love and reassurance).

Hopefully his tummy will start to settle down now, we seem to have seen the last of the extensive worm infestation he had going on, however we have seen blood in his stool today which worries me :cryin:


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Leoti - Chip looks to be about the same age, it is becoming more and more apparent the details weren't correct from the breeder at all - we did our research and the breeder has dogs from various bloodlines etc and we saw both parents and grandparents and were still duped - how dumb is that!!!

Husbands late Mum had a BC from 10 weeks old and he couldn't remember how big they were when they were that young, unfortunately Max had to be PTS 3 years ago due to a brain tumour, he was only 5 :cryin:

It is great to see the pictures, we can then get a real idea of just how old he is/isn't! Looks like it doesn't take them too long to get big and bouncy puppies which is good. Does you very cute little pup have what we call the Duracell bunny problem in that they will drop where ever they are if they need to sleep - we find him in the strangest of places, laying on shoes, half in his food bowl etc! He can even get himself through the bars of the stair gate we have up!!!


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

Houseofpets said:


> Leoti - Chip looks to be about the same age, it is becoming more and more apparent the details weren't correct from the breeder at all - we did our research and the breeder has dogs from various bloodlines etc and we saw both parents and grandparents and were still duped - how dumb is that!!!
> 
> Husbands late Mum had a BC from 10 weeks old and he couldn't remember how big they were when they were that young, unfortunately Max had to be PTS 3 years ago due to a brain tumour, he was only 5 :cryin:
> 
> It is great to see the pictures, we can then get a real idea of just how old he is/isn't! Looks like it doesn't take them too long to get big and bouncy puppies which is good. Does you very cute little pup have what we call the Duracell bunny problem in that they will drop where ever they are if they need to sleep - we find him in the strangest of places, laying on shoes, half in his food bowl etc! He can even get himself through the bars of the stair gate we have up!!!


ooh they do i have 3 puppies still aged 13 weeks and when there tired they sleep anywere they can


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Well back from the afternoon visit to the vets! 

They are going to do a parvo test on him but don't think it's that at all (but I wanted it ruled out), they are also going to check him for Salmanela (?), E-coli infections etc. Also got some anti biotics which they hope will help clear up the poor guys poorly tummy.......and some more Keogel to try and settle it before the anti biotics kick in! 

Over £100 vet bill spent on him since we gor him on Friday - but I have to say he is worth every penny and don't begrudge it at all :001_tt1:


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Well lets hope he is over the worst & every thing starts to settle down, believe me, he will get very lively by the time he is 8wks!!!
Rolo was a stunning puppy, and he was quite big, but he is a great eater, think he has left 1 meal in the 8mnths we have had him, i share an orange with him daily too.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

I hope so too as his poorly tummy has got worse today and he is seeming quite lethargic :-( His weight has gone up slightly though from 1.4kgs to 1.54kgs in 3 days.

Can't wait for him to run around and be a well puppy instead of a poorly little chap. I feel so sorry for him, just hope the rest of his litter are doing OK.

Thank you for all your help hairydog, we really appreciate it - give Rolo a hug from me x


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

When we got rolo, he was just under 7wks and weighed 4.350 k, by `10wks he weighed 8.7 k, doubled in just under 4wks Told you he likes his food.
Start keeping a small diary of his weight, height, when he wakes up, how long he sleeps, likes/dislikes toilet training, then you can see how much they start to progress, i have done it with all my collies, and it's good to look back on and compare.:smile::smile:


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Now that is a boy who likes his food! 

Our experience of collies has always been that they are picky eaters. My Hubbie's Mum had one who would only eat a certain type of dry food and before he would eat it he hoked it out of the bowl, spread it all around the floor and would then eat it, our own 2 year old is fussy with food and both of them we found were/are grazers although this is a habit we are trying to break with our 2 year old. 

Chip on the other hand seems more like yours, he loves his food and will start asking for it about half an hour before he is due to be fed (we try and keep him to the same times so that he has some routine). I have cut up some carrot but he prefers to lick it rather than eat it, still sure he will work out what to do with it in time! 

He is just about to have his tea or egg and goats milk - he is running around the kitchen floor doing all kinds of mad things and whining like he has never been fed before! 

We have had a few 'accidents' but on the whole he is very good and goes to the back door to be let out already - maybe I am just a soppy Mum but I do think my wee man is very clever :biggrin:


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

are you sure about that weight!

The heaviest of my pups, who will be a similar size to collies when fully grown, is over 1kg at 11 days

I would expect them to be just short of 3kgs at 5 weeks and 4-5 kgs at 8

but good luck with the little one, looks like he is in good hands


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Just weighed him at home and yep he's 1.54kgs - the vet didn't mention his weight was an issue, please don't tell me this is something else I need to worry about?


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

Houseofpets said:


> Just weighed him at home and yep he's 1.54kgs - the vet didn't mention his weight was an issue, please don't tell me this is something else I need to worry about?


when my bitch puppy and the male puppy were weighed at 8 weeks old she was 4.77kg and he and he was 5.6 kg


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If the tests for parvo comes back negative but the vet thinks he is showing the symptoms of parvo get him to test for coccidiosis. A few years ago one of our pups got it and she showed the signs of parvo but the tests were negative. Coccidiosis although life threatening can be easily cured with the correct antibiotics


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

He seems like he is quite underweight then. 

We get the parvo test results back later today but I will certainly ask them to test for Coccidiosis, we did take a faecal sample and they have sent that off for testing as well, in the meantime we have some anti biotics to give him which seem to have perked him up no end - he is being an absolute sod today!!!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> he is being an absolute sod today!!!


Always a good sign  poor little mite.

I don't know what the 'normal' weight range for BC's is - but his weight does seem light - my Lab puppies are usually around 7 to 9 kg at 8 weeks


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Not really managing to get much done though Swarthy as he is trying to eat everything - shoes, carpet, his blanket etc but I really don't mind as it's great to see him feeling so much better - it has been worth every penny to get him to this point!  He went out for a quick wee earlier and wondered past my feet with my seedling Butterfly plant in his mouth, after 3 laps of the patio table I finally got it back!!!

When I call the vets this afternoon for his results I will check with her on weight and see if she thinks he is a little on the small side. I did have him on 4 meals a day but might make it 5 as he seems so hungry all the time.


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Wow, that is light lol, i would give him as at least 5 meals a day at the moment until he starts putting on some weight, by the way, rolo is a Beardie/Border, i know you would'nt think so, mum is a slate Beardie, dad is a brown Border, he is the double of his dad-and NO springer !:nono::nono: Really glad he is driving you nuts, gooooood sign, told you, wait till he gets a bit older, lively is an under statement.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

So far today he has had Farleys and milk for breakfast at 7am, mid morning snack of autarky and nature diet at 10.30am, more autarky and nature diet at 1.45pm, autarky and sausage at 4.30pm and he has just had a sardine - boy he can eat for England!!! 

What sort of weight do you think he should be? We can't seem to get the diarrhoea under control at all, he seems fine first toilet of the day but from them on he can go through the eye of a needle, he is on Kaogel 2 x 1ml and Synulox anti biotics.

Here is a picture of him laying with his Daddy last night - you can see how small he is and his eyes have a blue tint to them but it's not as bright as in the picture.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

aw bless he is gorgeous

I'll see if I can find out what weight a BC pup should be - but I am sure someone will be along


OK asked some people who have BC's they think 3-4kgs at 5 weeks so similar to what I would expect mine to weigh

I do hope a BC person comes along as he sounds very small to me


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

So after a day of Chip (who I have now nicknamed Chuckie!) eating lots of small but good food, he has had his first proper solid poo (sorry to those eating their dinner but I am very excited by this :001_smile and having weighed him just now he weighs a whopping 1.9kgs, a great weight gain seeing as he was only 1.54kgs on Tuesday evening 

Let's hope this is the corner we have been hoping Chuckie - sorry Chip would make x


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> So after a day of Chip (who I have now nicknamed Chuckie!) eating lots of small but good food, he has had his first proper solid poo (sorry to those eating their dinner but I am very excited by this :001_smile and having weighed him just now he weighs a whopping 1.9kgs, a great weight gain seeing as he was only 1.54kgs on Tuesday evening
> 
> Let's hope this is the corner we have been hoping Chuckie - sorry Chip would make x


Hoping your little man is now on the road to recovery. He is lucky that you have paid so much attention to his welfare.

Lol Nice to hear someone else get excited about poo - I have horses and people think I am weird when if any of the horses on the yard get colic - we text each other to announce 'normal poo'!

Fingers crossed that Chip is going to thrive under your care now - well done


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

CAstbury said:


> Lol Nice to hear someone else get excited about poo - I have horses and people think I am weird when if any of the horses on the yard get colic - we text each other to announce 'normal poo'!
> 
> Thank you :001_smile:
> 
> I think my family think I have gone completely mad, I opened the back door and shouted to them that Chip had done a proper poo and to come and have a look - yeah, it was like a scene from an old movie with the tumble weed rolling past - I have spent the last 5 days checking his poo and I think it has become an obsession!! lol


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> So after a day of Chip (who I have now nicknamed Chuckie!) eating lots of small but good food, he has had his first proper solid poo (sorry to those eating their dinner but I am very excited by this :001_smile and having weighed him just now he weighs a whopping 1.9kgs, a great weight gain seeing as he was only 1.54kgs on Tuesday evening
> 
> Let's hope this is the corner we have been hoping Chuckie - sorry Chip would make x


That's particularly good going considering the varied diet he's having - he's really landed on his feet the lucky little boy 

If he does get the runs, I certainly wouldn't restrict his food bearing in mind his not too great start - but maybe stick to the blander foods for a day or so and make sure he has access to plenty of fluid.

Fingers crossed he is on the upward road now - at this age (assuming 5 weeks) I would still be on 5 meals a day - he might be keen to eat, but their tummies are small - so little and often  (sounds like he isn't objecting )


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

swarthy said:


> That's particularly good going considering the varied diet he's having - he's really landed on his feet the lucky little boy
> 
> If he does get the runs, I certainly wouldn't restrict his food bearing in mind his not too great start - but maybe stick to the blander foods for a day or so and make sure he has access to plenty of fluid.
> 
> Fingers crossed he is on the upward road now - at this age (assuming 5 weeks) I would still be on 5 meals a day - he might be keen to eat, but their tummies are small - so little and often  (sounds like he isn't objecting )


Since his sardine snack he has had a bowl of soaked autarky, nature diet and a few pieces of Pasta (no nutrition I know but thought he might like it and he did  )


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> Since his sardine snack he has had a bowl of soaked autarky, nature diet and a few pieces of Pasta (no nutrition I know but thought he might like it and he did  )


Pasta can be food for firming up his poos, as can rice and also (rather surprisingly) rice pudding - I always give my pups a rice pudding based meal - they go NUTS for it :lol:


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

swarthy said:


> Pasta can be food for firming up his poos, as can rice and also (rather surprisingly) rice pudding - I always give my pups a rice pudding based meal - they go NUTS for it :lol:


Is that just the tinned rice pudding you get from the supermarkets or one you make yourself?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> Is that just the tinned rice pudding you get from the supermarkets or one you make yourself?


oooh no - I buy it from the supermarket  cooking isn't my strong point!!

It sounds like he will enjoy it


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

That's great, I have some in the cupboard so will give him some tomorrow, sorry to ask so many questions but do you add anything else to it - worried the milk might upset him?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Houseofpets said:


> That's great, I have some in the cupboard so will give him some tomorrow, sorry to ask so many questions but do you add anything else to it - worried the milk might upset him?


Sometimes I add some goats milk - I've never had a problem and know others that have used it - if you are worried then maybe introduce some to him with his rusks to start with and see how he gets on 

As I said - in our experience - and perhaps surprisingly, it can actually help bind poo as opposed to upsetting their tums, but as I said - maybe just a little to start with and see how he gets on, as he is already having a varied diet.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

swarthy said:


> Sometimes I add some goats milk - I've never had a problem and know others that have used it - if you are worried then maybe introduce some to him with his rusks to start with and see how he gets on
> 
> As I said - in our experience - and perhaps surprisingly, it can actually help bind poo as opposed to upsetting their tums, but as I said - maybe just a little to start with and see how he gets on, as he is already having a varied diet.


Thank you so much Swarthy, I will try him with that in the morning, he didn't seem very full after having his rusks and goats milk today.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

reddogs said:


> aw bless he is gorgeous
> 
> I'll see if I can find out what weight a BC pup should be - but I am sure someone will be along
> 
> ...


My Welsh Collie pup was 2.6 kilos at 7 weeks. As an adult, she's a bit on the small side for her breed and was 15 kilos when last weighed at the vets. Collies vary a lot in eventual size, your Chip may end up on the small end of the scale, but there's nothing wrong with that, just makes him more manageable. Did you see his parents? If so, what sort of size were they?

He's fallen on his feet with you. He's gorgeous and you're doing everything dead right.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Sounds like your doing a cracking job.. hes stunning


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> My Welsh Collie pup was 2.6 kilos at 7 weeks. As an adult, she's a bit on the small side for her breed and was 15 kilos when last weighed at the vets. Collies vary a lot in eventual size, your Chip may end up on the small end of the scale, but there's nothing wrong with that, just makes him more manageable. Did you see his parents? If so, what sort of size were they?
> 
> He's fallen on his feet with you. He's gorgeous and you're doing everything dead right.


Thank you 

We did see Mum, Dad and Grandparents and I would say they were probably on the smaller size compared to our 2 year old BC - I have heard conflicting info on whether the 'Welsh collie' breed actually exists but we have a friend who has what they call a Welsh collie and she does has shorter legs than the 'standard' one's you tend to see.

Chip will be adorable no matter what size he turns out and we will love him just as much. He must be giving out some positive energy this evening as for the first time in 5 days our 2 year old has been playing with him - she is a little hyper and scared him but sure it won't be long before they are charging all over the place after each other


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

XxZoexX said:


> Sounds like your doing a cracking job.. hes stunning


Thank you XxZoexX  I don't regret getting him and making the decision not to return him when we found out his real age but I do feel very sorry for him, he will miss out on so much nurturing from his Mum. Unfortunately she was already removed from the pups and that influenced our decision to keep him. The breeder had already sold one of the puppies 3 days before we got Chip and had someone else visiting on the same day we got him. Had we tried returned him we are convinced he would 1. not have taken him back and 2. if he had done would have sold him on again as even when I spoke to him on the phone he was still adament they were born on the 2 March, I think he may have been confusing March with April !!!


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Just a quick evening update on Chip! 

He has been quite tired today but was active yesterday so it may have taken it out of him. However, he is now desperately trying to drag my laptop bag across the living room carpet.

Upset tummy seems to have cleared itself completely now and he is eating a real variety of foods. Swarthy, Chip absolutely loved his rice pudding this morning and ate the whole bowl - kinda looked like he had eaten a sibling or something when he had finished 

He does love sardines but boy does it make him smell, especially when he wants to cuddle up on my shoulder and yawns before dropping off to sleep :

If anyone can suggest any treats that really work with puppies, we are struggling to find anything treat wise that will interest him. He will eat food out of his bowl with no problems but won't take food from your hand away from his bowl?


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Chip is doing really well today, he is eating like a horse and not getting an upset tummy from it. He is stealing my plant pots, grabbing the bottom of our trousers and generally having a great time - he's very good at weeding too!!!

We can get him to 'sit' when asked now which is great, we will be looking to start him with other commands as well in the next few days.

I think he may well have found his feet at last and is now showing his true colours


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Great news, lets hope he is starting to get there, you will be amazed how quick they can catch up, just carry on doing what you are doing.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

Treats for little pups are difficult - read the back of the packets for the age, most say over 3/4mths

try making your own, then you know what is in them

cut up carrot, bits of cooked chicken, apple, small amounts of cheese


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

End of weekend update on Chip 

He has gained loads of weight and is now 2.7kgs and has grown at an unbelievable speed (will update with photos soon). He is charging around like a mad thing and is into everything - still trying to weed my violas and trimming my grass by pulling it up in mouthfuls 

He has been out a couple of times this weekend and has met up with vaccinated dogs and loved them all, his tails wags so fast I'm surprised his bottom doesn't fall off! He seems to love people and enjoys them stroking him, we dipped his feet in a very shallow stream/river whilst paddling with our other Collie yesterday and he loved it so when he gets a lot bigger we will be taking him back for a good splash about.

Upset tummy has completely cleared and he is loving all sorts of foods - lets hope it continues.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Fantastic news.. Dont know about anyone else but id love to see progress pictures, He looks so tiny in the first pic x


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## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

XxZoexX said:


> Fantastic news.. Dont know about anyone else but id love to see progress pictures, He looks so tiny in the first pic x


Yay, we want pictures, we want pictures...................


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Wonderful news, sound like your little mans, really coming into him own now and doing fantastic. Glad his tums settled too.


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Here are some pictures I managed to get whilst he stood fairly still


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Thats really good to read, sounds just like my pup was at 7wks, dug up the flowers scratched up the lawn, and wagged his tail till it nearly fell off;
You will be amazed how fast they grow with a good diet, dont give up on things he didnt like at 5 wks, there just like kids!!!
Just seen the pictures, looking good and really changed, lost that small unsure look.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

He is so cute


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

hairydog said:


> Thats really good to read, sounds just like my pup was at 7wks, dug up the flowers scratched up the lawn, and wagged his tail till it nearly fell off;
> You will be amazed how fast they grow with a good diet, dont give up on things he didnt like at 5 wks, there just like kids!!!
> Just seen the pictures, looking good and really changed, lost that small unsure look.


From that description they do sound like the same dog!  I have no lawn left to speak of really, just some nice dry brown soil looking areas and the fencing I put around the 'flower' beds, Chip can get through so not really doing much good!

He has just had so much fun shredding todays newspaper - I probably should have been cross seeing as my carpet is now covered in about 100 pieces but he is having so much fun


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

My cheeky little man shredding the paper for me and then his 'what me Mum' expression!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Really lovely pics, he looks like he is doing miles better too.


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## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

Wow, he really has come on in this last week - well done, you are obviously doing the right things for him. He looks so much more settled in your latest pics and much healthier too.

By the way, I love his name 'Chip'.

Keep up the good work and also we need to be kept up-to-date with growing pics :thumbup:


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

Aww, he looks like he's growing into a healthy boy


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## DougGeneration (Apr 28, 2011)

Looks like the little guy just finished pottying on that 'what me Mum' expression picture! lol

Feel very good for both of you.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Awwww hes just sooo darn cute, and he's looking fab.
Seems your doing a fantastic job


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

Oh dear, the clever little man has discovered how you get out of the cat flap and follows the cats into the garden now!!!  

Chip has got even bigger now, I can't believe how quickly he is growing - he did push his luck a little too far today. My old Jasper is 13 and tolerates a lot, he gets jumped on whilst in bed, ears chewed, charged at whilst he is relieving himself in the garden but Chip discovered his 'button' today, whilst Jasper was eating his dinner Chip muscled in and tried to eat it (brave or stupid, you decide ) and got 'gummied' by Jasper (I can't say bitten as he really doesn't have enough teeth left to use that term)!!! Once Jasper had told Chip off he walked away with his tail between his legs and sat in the corner of the kitchen watching Jasper finish his dinner. Guess he won't be trying that again for a while! :nono:


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

That is really good to hear, acting like a normal puppy, my dog growls at Rolo if he even looks at his dinner, tried the same as your dog when he was young too, got nipped on the nose,but thats how they learn!
What weight is he now???


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

hairydog said:


> That is really good to hear, acting like a normal puppy, my dog growls at Rolo if he even looks at his dinner, tried the same as your dog when he was young too, got nipped on the nose,but thats how they learn!
> What weight is he now???


Hi there, Chip is now just over 3kgs so doing really well.

Only concern I have now is he has no blink reflex, when moving swiftly towards is eyes with your finger he doesn't blink at all. Vet tried it about a week ago and he didn't get any response, he trips up things and falls over nearly everything!

Don't suppose you know if it's usual for puppies to fall asleep when you carry them around outside do you? (I do have another post going re the blinking problem)


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