# 12yr old border collie choking/gagging - Vet suspects Heart Failure?



## WaitingForTheSun (Jun 12, 2009)

My border collie is 12 years old and over the last 2 months he's started to choke/gag, maybe as frequently as once a day, although some days not at all. It's almost identical to the act of vomiting, except nothing ever comes out of his mouth.

We went to the vet last night and she had a look in his mouth and noticed there was quite a lot of phlem at the back of his throat. We discussed the possibility that the choking/gagging could be due to him licking fur from his paws, as he licks them due to arthritis. She then listened to his heart and lungs and she said that he has a heart murmur.

She suggested we do a blood test next week to determine if my dog's general health and kidney function would be able to sustain 30 mins of general anasthetic in order to carry out investigative studies on him which entail two x-rays, one on his neck and one his chest (with the possibility of a 3rd x-ray if additional view is required), and a look down his throat to see what the cause of the phlem build up is and if it's related to his choking.

Here's the list she gave me of the procedures they'll undertake...
_(The first four items listed are for the blood test process)_
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/146/dooleybill221220102.jpg

I also asked if the firoxocib/previcox he's been taking for about a year now for his arthritis might have something to do with it, she said that it could irritate his stomach and gi tract in general, although it seems as though she wanted to investigate his heart first with the above mentioned investigation.

Personally I feel that it probably is swelling of his heart as my nans dog exhibited exactly the same symptom, only worse and eventually had to be put down as she was constantly choking and unable to breathe.

Considering his age, I'm just wondering if putting him under would be appropriate, is it the right thing to do? I'm just hoping that once we've determined what it is that we can give him medication to help prolong his life further? I'd really appreciate any advice or info that would be useful to me.

My family and myself can't bare the thought of losing him, he is a member of the family.

Thanks for reading.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I think only you and your family can make this decision and you would need to voice your concerns with your vet.

If its any help, my 12 yr old Border Collie bitch had a blood test to determine her general health, kidney function, etc. prior to being given anaesthetic about three months ago, as she needed dental treatment. In her case all went well.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

I think if tests come back ok its worth giving it a go.

12 is reasonably old but he may go on a lot more still to 16+ maybe.

Good luck with it anyway and let us know the outcome what ever that may be.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

I have a sponsor dog.He has a grade 5 heart murmur.Once he started the medication,his coughing has stopped.He seems much fitter too.
I will say,if you choose this route,ask the vet for a prescription(not the drugs,just the paper) for 3 months of drugs,and get it off the internet,from vet medication companies.Just send the prescription to them.
The vets quoted Bobbys pills,as £43 a month
The charity gets them off the internet for £25 a month


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Doing pre op blood tests to check organ function is pretty standard procedure, With my vets is is optional but I always have it done especially with my oldies. My oldie whos 13 in april had an op last year and she was fine.

Personally if she was mine I would have the Blood tests done and then make a decision to proceed or not, at least your mind would be at rest as to how safe the procedure is likely to be if you proceed. If it is something that can be eased and controlled with medication and give her a good quality of life still for a longer period, then I would think its possibly worth considering.


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## sandymere (Jan 4, 2010)

From a laymans perspective and having not seen the dog it is difficult to do more than make some general suggestions. Does the vet suspect structural problems to the neck hence the x-ray as an endoscopy may be better than an x-ray to determine if there are upper gastro problems and could perhaps be undertaken under sedation rather than anesthetic. A chest x-ray may show congestion plus give indication of heart size but will not really be diagnostic of function/competence. In congestive heart failure sputum coughed up would most likely be white or slightly pink and frothy but it is usually swallowed by the dog so can be difficult to tell, a course of medication may alleviate symptoms. At the end of the day the vet will have investigated many such cases and will have seen the dog so is the best person to lead the way. Bloods are probably a good idea as they will show any infective signs but more importantly give kidney function which would be key in deciding appropriate medicinal treatment for congestive cardiac failure.
Good luck s


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

my old GSP had exactly those symptoms in her later shes but it was bronchitis, she was always worse when she'd been laying down and she would get up and retch and almost choke...she had bouts of it for several years and antibiotics always cleared it up, so fingers crossed your dog will be okay too


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## lu26 (Mar 9, 2008)

My whippet has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart after gagging,coughing having nasal discharge,she had a blood test and a tube passed to have a look at her nose and throat to see if there was any tummor in the nose! thank goodness there wasn;t the vet xrayed her and she found an enlarged heart so she as been put on vetmedin for the ret of her life i am now just trying to sort out a diet for her.

Good luck with your dog i know how hard it is!


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## WaitingForTheSun (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate it. My dog is booked in for this Friday. 

The vet phoned me to say his blood test results showed that he should be ok to go under anasthetic. She did say there was something to indicate his kindey function was not perfect, but that it should be nothing to worry about and that they would just have to give him fluid while he's under as a precaution. Does this sound right? She said it would cost another £40-50 on top of the current procedure/pricing list.

I'm also wondering if it's necessary for a dog to go under anasthetic in order to have these x-rays taken? I know that the images will be clearer if he's completely still, but taking into account his age, would it be worth trying without the anasthetic first?


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm sorry, I hope everything goes well. Maybe it has something to do with positioning him to get a good look at his heart? That's just a guess though.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Poor you . Can't answer your questions but just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hope it turns out ok xx


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

lu26 said:


> My whippet has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart after gagging,coughing having nasal discharge,she had a blood test and a tube passed to have a look at her nose and throat to see if there was any tummor in the nose! thank goodness there wasn;t the vet xrayed her and she found an enlarged heart so she as been put on vetmedin for the ret of her life i am now just trying to sort out a diet for her.
> 
> Good luck with your dog i know how hard it is!


I had a dog with DCM we put him on low salt/sodium food.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

WaitingForTheSun said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate it. My dog is booked in for this Friday.
> 
> The vet phoned me to say his blood test results showed that he should be ok to go under anasthetic. She did say there was something to indicate his kindey function was not perfect, but that it should be nothing to worry about and that they would just have to give him fluid while he's under as a precaution. Does this sound right? She said it would cost another £40-50 on top of the current procedure/pricing list.
> 
> I'm also wondering if it's necessary for a dog to go under anasthetic in order to have these x-rays taken? I know that the images will be clearer if he's completely still, but taking into account his age, would it be worth trying without the anasthetic first?


I think a lot of meds including anaesthetic are excreted from the body via the kidneys, so I would think by giving extra fluids during the op it would ensure that the process would be speeded up to help rid the body, almost to dilute the effects. Also for just Xrays I shouldnt think that the dog would need to be under for that long. I did ask a few years back when I was concerned about a general anaesthetic would sedation not be better. Im pretty sure I was told that the effects of sedation can be harder to reverse than the GA, so thats maybe the reason. A lot of vets now use human grade anaesthesia so GA is a lot lot safer than it used to be. Part of this though is an educated guess. So just voice your concerns with the vet and ask any querys that you have when you get there, or even phone if you are worried. A Head veterinary nurse Im sure would be able to explain everything.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sorry to hear your dog needs x-rays  I would think it safer to have the GA as less chance of him getting stressed & injurying himself, good luck hope its nothing serious x


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

My oldest BC, now 15.5 years old, was diagnosed with a slight heart murmer about 2.25 years ago, he had been coughing, but as the murmer wasn't bad he wasn't put on any meds, a year later the murmer was alot worse, so he was put on vetmedin, he's doing really well on it (been on it about 1.25 years), he hardly ever coughs now, still plays, he has slowed down, but at 15.5 that's not surprising. He did have a couple of ultrasound scans of his heart and wasn't sedated or anaethesized for them. There is other medication that can be used if he gets worse, like benazecare, there's also frusecare if there is fluid. He had had an anaesthetic to remove some teeth about 6 months before the minor heart murmer was diagnosed and he was fine under the anaesthetic then, but I know the vet wouldn't put him under now unless it was an absolute life and death emergency as he is high risk.

My 12.5 year old Border Collie has had 2 ops in the last year to remove lumps, 1 just before his 12th birthday and 1 just last week, he didn't have any problems with the anaethetic, but my vets use sevoflurine (the latest in anaesthetic gases, used for ops on premature babies). He hasn't got any signs of a heart murmer though.

Our vets do recommend fluids for all ops, it helps with the blood pressure under the anaethetic, it is optional, but most people go for it, I definately did for my 12.5 year old boy for both his ops. I know it was 21.50 before the VAT increase for a dog to have fluids for an op.


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## dizzy27 (Jun 3, 2011)

Our Border Collie has enlarged heart and fluid on lung, he is up during the night panting and short of breath and drinks a lot of water. His back legs collapse as he tries to go up stairs. He is almost 15 and on Vetmedin anyone any experience of this with any advice. Thanks


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