# British shorthair kitten that doesn't eat in 2 weeks, could you please help me?



## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Hello everybody!

I am new in the forum, so sorry if there is any thread covering the same topic, but I could not find! I hope you can help me with my new kitten, as neither the breeder or vet can provide me much more help by now, don't know what else to do...

2 weeks ago we got a BSH kitten home, when he was 9 weeks old and just after having his vaccination. He was looking healthy, though sleepy and tired, we guess for the vaccination, but he explored the house and played with us. He did not eat or drink anything, but we thought it was normal due to the change of house and stress. 

We started getting worried when he didnt eat a thing for 4 days (neither drink in 2), so we took him to the vet. She was very skeptical with the cat, she said that he looked like 7 weeks, because he only weighed 560g. She just opened a can of wet food for senior cats, and he started eating a bit of that. Hence she said ´he eats! try with only wet food´. We did (he ate very few though), but afterwards, he vomited everything, and he got severe diarrhea. Then she said to make pure out dry food with water and give it via syringe. 3days after he was looking much worst, with vomit and diarrhea and loosing consciousness in the evening (he even peed while sleeping in our legs).

A new vet checked then for parasites, temperature, heart, lungs, but could not find anything strange besides his low weight (530gr) and brown tears, that he said were not important. In the lack of better diagnose, he said it must be a virus, but that it was critical due to his low weight. He gave us medicines to stop the nausea (first in drops that he kept vomiting and then injection) and a special food for convalescence support, always to be fed via the syringe 6times a day. After 4 days, he was looking slightly better and suddenly he went to eat by himself, so we were super happy and stopped feeding him via syringe. He was eating about 40gr of wet food a day (I know it is too few, but still much more than ever earlier...) and looking a bit more active and healthy. But since yesterday he stopped eating again, and today when he tried he vomited everything...

We dont know what else to do, and he meows very loud all day and night and weighs 460gr now. Have you ever experienced something similar? Can you give me some other advice? The vet is on holidays now... The breeder said she has never seen a case like this and contacted the owners of his brothers and sisters and all of them are perfect...

Thanks a lot in advance for any info! And sorry for the very long post, but I wanted to explain myself correctly..


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

This sounds very, very sad. Unfortunately, it looks like this poor guy was sold to you by a backyard breeder. Real BSHs aren't supposed to leave their nest until at least 12-14 weeks of age (depending on the organisation). At 7 or 9 weeks old, he should still be drinking from mum (my kittens continue to have a snack from mum even at 13 weeks old!). All my kittens were already above 400g at 3 weeks old so your 9 or 11-week old weighing just 460g is just... 

Personally, I don't see a positive outcome on this but what you could try (and I hope it works): 

i) Get good KMR (kitten milk replacement. A good brand is PetAG)

ii) Feed him according to the instructions. It's best to get the ready-made cans rather than the powder so that you get the consistency right. Since he is 9 or 11 weeks old now, he can probably learn to use the bottle but as he is weak, it might not work.

iii) If he is too weak, you could ask your vet to teach you to feed your kitten with a tube (you push this tube to his stomach and with a syringe filled with KMR from the other end). Reason why you should ask your vet to teach you is because if you don't do it properly, it might go into his lungs and it will be fatal. Get the vet to 'mark' the tube for you so you know when to stop pushing. 

I wish you the best and I hope you won't buy a kitten from a backyard breeder anymore Saves you the trouble and sadness and the poor guy from his misery. 

P/S: Sorry to say that I can't help with the vomitting etc. I'm not a vet and it could be anything, considering his condition. The suggestions I mentioned earlier is more to make him stronger so that he can hopefully fight whatever it is. Also, if you think it's too much for the poor guy, maybe best to put him to sleep?


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor little guy, this can't be much fun for him!!! Or you.

Have you tried going back to feeding him by syringe since he last vomited? This might be a good idea so he is at least getting some nutrients, which are so vital with him being so young.

As well as syringing food into him , syringe water into him as it's vital he doesn't become dehydrated.

I would also say that you need to get him back to t he vet. I appreciate that one vet might be on holiday, but surely the practice has a second vet you can take him to, or look for a new vet to deal with him.

He sounds incredibly young, and it may well be that the food you're using is simply too rich for him. Could you try boiling up tiny little bits of plain chicken, in water, and seeing of he can keep that down? Doesn't need to be a lot, but he does need to eat and keep something down asap.

Hope he manages to keep something down soon.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Am sorry to say but a reputable breeder would never in a thousand years let a kitten of nine weeks go.... Sounds to me you have met a BYB ... They will not be interest if your new kitten is ill they have your money now

As for the kitten that's a very very low weight she should be at least 900g at that age , so yes you vet was right sounds more like a 5 week kitten, she had probably not been weaned correctly.... What are you feeing her ??

I would personally contacted another vet, this simply cannot go on..


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Vesta: I see you're based in The Netherlands (that's where I live as well). There are many vets around so it shouldn't be too hard to find one in your town/village/city. As it's late now, you can also contact the emergency vet (to find out the number, you can call your normal vet and the answering machine will usually tell you the emergency number you can call).


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Thank you all for the suggestions, and for the fast reply.

I have contacted the clinic and tomorrow morning they will call me back for an appointment with another vet (fortunately they are 3 in there!). I am positive as now I gave him some food and he kept it in, and when I went to gave him water by the syringe he drank it by himself instead... Hope he gets better with resting in the night!

As for the food, right now I am giving him only Royal canin babycat 34, water and some cat milk from whiskas. Before he was having Royan canin convalescence support from the vet...

And yes, it was a very big mistake to get such a young kitten... It was the first time that I went for buying one (before I had always adopted, and they where about 2 months so I thought it was normal age, my bad...), and I thought everything was reliable, as he had the passport and documents from the vet according to all the checks, worm prevention and vaccinations... The breeder is though trying to help me with some advice, but not very successful...

Thanks again, I will keep you updated!


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi, 

Glad to hear you'll go to the vet tomorrow. No more Whiskas cat milk, that is not good for him (this is more like a treat and might also upset his tummy), certainly not in large quantities. Instead tomorrow, ask for KMR from your vet. If he gives you the powdered version, follow the instructions properly and if you are not sure, better to make it too watery than too thick. 

If you don't mind, can you tell me what organisation your breeder is from? I am guessing she doesn't belong to any organisation but thought I'd ask just in case I doubt he has had his vaccinations since this is done at 9 weeks and 12 weeks of age (some breeders do the first one at 12 weeks and then another at 15 weeks because they believe that if you do it earlier, the mother's protection is destroyed or something). 

Since he is probably quite sensitive now, I would probably not change the food. However, because of dehydration, it might be best to let him eat wet food only as opposed to Royal Canin Babycat. Do you have a photo of him? I would like to see how he looks like (and to guess his age to have a better idea of what he might need).


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

A 9 week old kitten at 560g is severely under weight - that's the weight I would expect a 4- 5 week old to be. Can I ask, and this may seem silly - what colour is he and what colour are his eyes?

He sounds very, very poorly - I would expect he vet to want to keep =him in and give him IV fluids and food etc. I suspect he wasn't properly weaned and has no idea about food. If vaccinated too early he will need them all done again, if he survives. 

I would also look at getting KMR (kitten milk replacement) don't use Whiskas kitten milk - it's full of rubbish. Have you tried him on any ground up meat? Or pate type food? 

Unfortunately due to the huge amount of weight he has lost it's going to be a long journey with him. I wish you a lot of luck.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi, I have worked in animal rescue for many years and dealt with kittens in similar circumstances. Please do the following.

Make a formula: Heat jug of milk (preferably goats, but normal will have to do if you don't have or cant get right now). Add large knob of butter and half tablespoon of sugar. Stir until all is melted. When almost cool, add two egg yolks (and a couple of teaspoons golden syrup if have). Syringe into your kitten every hour, as much as he will take. All these things are normally in your cupboard.

Your kitten should have been on IV fluids - at the very least! Disgraceful that your vets haven't done this. Do not feed any dry food at all! You must get your kitten to the vet tomorrow and on IV and antibiotics. This is critical as your kitten hasn't eaten for so long. Don't let the vet fob you off again!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Stick with wot you are doing overnight... Little and often..... Sugars and human dairy products can be dangerous in small kitten.. And we don't want to upset him anymore .... Hope you get a good outcome in the morning


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

My mistake, is not Royal canin Babycat 34, it is Royal canin babycat instinctive, thus wet food (like a pate, the dry one he has it there but never touched it)...

The breeder does not belong to any organization, as far as I could find out  We signed a contract when I got the cat, but the vet said that it does not have ANY legal validity or anything... 

Here you have 3 pictures, the first from his second day at home, and the other 2 right now, after eating a bit (so completely sleepy afterwards). Hope you can see them!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Tiny baby ,, are his eyes blue


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Stick with wot you are doing overnight... Little and often..... Sugars and human dairy products can be dangerous in small kitten.. And we don't want to upset him anymore .... Hope you get a good outcome in the morning


FYI Kittens are NOT lactose intolerant until they are over 3 months old! AND a dangerously dehydrated and underweight kitten NEEDS energy to survive!


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Ok he is small and skinny but not as bad as I expected. still not normal by any means though (especially the last photo). hard for me to gauge his age as in the last photo, he looks about 5 weeks but in the first photo, his eyes are already orange. I'm sure someone more experienced here can help you with that.

Sorry if I sounded rude before, I was just so shocked and angry that a kitten could be only 460g at 9 or 11 weeks old and I felt sorry for the poor guy. I know you are trying to make the best of it and I'm glad that you are trying!

let us know what the vet says tomorrow.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

does the contract give any guarantees?


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes, blue greenish... he is gorgeous but so tiny...

The vet mentioned the option of IV infusion, but he did not advise it as it would be very expensive and that it might not be of help at all if the problem is that he cannot digest properly by himself... the vet was not very positive on his options for surviving last tuesday, but on friday he said he was better as he didnt vomit or have diarahea...We don't have any insurance yet, as he just got sick before we could arrange anything 

I will not give him human milk tonight, I will check with the doctor first to be sure... My other cat has had yogurt sometimes and it never hurt him, but the kitten is so weak that I'm afraid of hurting more than being of any help... but thanks for the suggestion!

He is now eating a bit again, and then hopefully he will sleep for some hours... At least his diarrhea stopped 5 days ago, but this sudden vomiting again is driving me crazy!


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Poor little thing  

I agree with what everybody else has said. If I was in your situation I would be considering finding the best vet I could and sending him to them for a few days and nights as it sounds as if he really needs a lot of round the clock care. If he were to suddenly go downhill in the night I'd be worried about him not making it to the emergency vet.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

If his eyes are blue green then he's about 5 - 6 weeks old. I'm assuming he should have orange eyes. Pipje - they look blue grey to me, not orange. I sincerely hope he didn't have his first vac - completely ineffective at that age.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

no, no human milk for him tonight. I would think in terms of food, kmr is your best option. Can't believe your vet didn't suggest this!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Ang2 said:


> FYI Kittens are NOT lactose intolerant until they are over 3 months old! AND a dangerously dehydrated and underweight kitten NEEDS energy to survive!


FYI Dairy products include milk, cream, butter, cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, whey, sour cream, kefir, casein, and ice cream. Milk is a hormonal growth fluid produced by a mother for her young of the same species. Cats do not milk cows (or mice) and, after weaning, have no need for dairy products. A weaned cat isnt equipped with the enzymes needed to digest the protein and sugar in dairy products. Plus, studies with cats show that casein (a protein in milk) interferes with the absorption of other nutrients.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

pipje said:


> Ok he is small and skinny but not as bad as I expected. still not normal by any means though (especially the last photo). hard for me to gauge his age as in the last photo, he looks about 5 weeks but in the first photo, his eyes are already orange. I'm sure someone more experienced here can help you with that.
> 
> Sorry if I sounded rude before, I was just so shocked and angry that a kitten could be only 460g at 9 or 11 weeks old and I felt sorry for the poor guy. I know you are trying to make the best of it and I'm glad that you are trying!
> 
> let us know what the vet says tomorrow.


It really does sound as though he is not old enough/ready to have been weaned. You really need to get a feeding bottle.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

pipje said:


> does the contract give any guarantees?


Not worth the paper it's printed on, if the breeder doesn't belong to any organisation ....


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> FYI Dairy products include milk, cream, butter, cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, whey, sour cream, kefir, casein, and ice cream. Milk is a hormonal growth fluid produced by a mother for her young of the same species. Cats do not milk cows (or mice) and, after weaning, have no need for dairy products. A weaned cat isnt equipped with the enzymes needed to digest the protein and sugar in dairy products. Plus, studies with cats show that casein (a protein in milk) interferes with the absorption of other nutrients.


All related to aduilt cats!

*Kittens are rarely intolerant , as lactose is present in cats' milk. 
Most adult cats are intolerant of lactose; because in adulthood, they stop producing enough of the enzyme lactase which is needed to digest lactose. *

Are all cats lactose intolerant

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

No Pipje, you were not rude at all in any message! I really appreciate that you all are trying to help me out... the eyes are indeed blue greenish, I do not know what is the age-evolution of that though... In his passport is said that he was born on 18th March, and his first vaccination was done the day that we took him home, 21st May...

We have also tried with boiled fish, by advice of the vet but he didnt eat it either. Now with this Babycat pate he is at least eating very few every 3hours...

Here you have a picture that the breeder send me when we first contacted (the cat was supposed to be 7weeks then, but when we got him in the 9th he was indeed thinner). As she lives 200km away our contact was by internet... Also a very bad idea from my side  I feel so guilty for him being sick...


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry, here it goes the pic ;-)


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

ahh
so sorry i havent read all this thread but i hope your lovely kit gets 
his mojo back soon, have you tried plaincooked minced ckicken, if hes 
too young for that maybe some scraped raw steak for optimum energy, hope
his tummy settles soon. sorry prob too early for that? im not exp with different formulas stay on though as i think you got lots of good advice already.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Hoping your kitten has a speedy recovery


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Well he is a sweetie - and at least he looks BSH - that's always a bonus.


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Pijp and Cosmills: About the contract.... It only says that the breeder takes no responsibility for diseases or shortcomings that the kitten may get after transferring, and that if I can no longer take care of the cat, she would like to have him back and not that I send him to an asylum. 

On the other hand, we just thought that if the kitten was underweight already when we got him, maybe she can have some liability, but as there is no registration number... only her name and address. On the other hand, all fields of the kitten's passport are filled by the vet, except for the weight! Oh God, how could I not notice that on the moment...  

She also said that if the kitten dies, she will give me another one from other nest (they might be like 3 weeks old now, as she said in middle July they will be ready) with paying the cost of the vet care prior the transfer...

Pijp, maybe if you are familiar with this sort of contracts I could send you a copy to have a look at it? (It is in Dutch) but well, no number and vet said no legal bound so maybe is not even worthy to check again...


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I have absolutely no knowledge of how things work over there, but in the uk you would be able to take her to court asking her to pay the vets bills. 

You obviously have her name and address and emails between you and her discussing your purchase of a kitten and the emails after you have taken him home. Also if you feel she misled you at any point about his age/registration etc and have it in emails that will help. It would be a good idea to ask your vet who has been dealing with your kitten what they suspect your kittens age was when you first brought him in and if the vet thinks the condition was already there prior to you taking him home. Your vets reports will be very helpful if you do end up going down this route. The contract will actually go more in your favour as even though the contract is probably worthless, it will act almost like a receipt. She signed it ( I assume) and so shouldn't be able to lie and say that she never sold you any kitten. 

I really hope that you can make your kitten well.


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Good morning everyone!

He had a pretty bad night, meowing very loud... He retained the food that he ate volunteerly yesterday before going to sleep, but then as he was complaining so much and he only calms down when he sleeps in your legs I took him to calm down... Later he meowed again and I gave him some water that he immediately vomited, and later he vomited a bit of food... It is a bit difficult to check because he goes to vomit to his sand box, so I cannot see him always, but for the amount that I clean, he puts out by any means way more than what he eats...

I have my fingers crossed for a nice suggestion from the vet today, but to me it feels like if something was not properly developed in his intestine or something, like a lack of one enzyme... dont know,but 100gr loss in one week is simply too much for his weight! I checked his teeth and everything looks good, he goes to eat, very little every time, but then he vomits...

about the contract thing, I will also ask the vet later, but I dont have many hopes as the first one said that I could not do anything with that paper even though I have emails explaining all the purchase, and the problems afterwards with daily updates... If it was in Spain the 'consumer defense organization' would handle it without even needing to go to court, but I do not know if there is something similar in the Netherlands... I will check on that now! Because I bet that going to court with no guarantee will probably be more cash loss than recovery of the expenses....

I will keep you updated, hope with better news!


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## Lulu77 (Jan 21, 2013)

Nothing useful to add just wanted to say i really hope the little mite picks up soon. Good luck. Sounds like you're doing everything you can for him.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

It is true you can probably do nothing about the contract but since you sort of have one, perhaps you can deal informally with the breeder (since she prepared it anyway so just try to discuss as humans as opposed to doing it the legal way since that is expensive and difficult).

What I can tell you is in the EU, a pet is considered a thing- which means that if it dies within 6 months, the company must replace or refund it (unless for eg. you throw a TV on it, neglect it, basically 'kill' it on purpose). However, the hard part is proving that she is a business and not a hobby 'breeder'. This website (Consumentenrecht - LICG) gives a good overview but it's in Dutch. The consumer organisation is called Consumentenbond and if you would like some legal advice, there's the Juridisch Loket (who can refer you to a proper lawyer if necessary but the cost may be subsidised or will have to be fully paid for by you, it depends on income).

What I think: If she offers you a new kitten, forget it. Whatever it is, the kitten will be coming from a backyard breeder (broodfokker in Dutch). What that means:

i) You don't even know if he is 100% British Shorthair
ii) His parents were probably not tested before getting kittens. For British Shorthairs, it is expected that both parents are tested for HCM (annually), PKD (at least once by DNA), FIV (annually) and FeLV(annually)
iii) She lets the kittens go at 9 weeks old. 
iv) She lets him leave the nest on the day he has had his first vaccination! 
v) Not to mention, the ridiculously low weight of 500+ g at 9 weeks old. 
vi) No proper guaranties, ill etc. 
vii) I guess she breeds for money. I would be curious how much you paid? Probably 250-350 euro? If you can, get the refund instead of the kitten replacement
viii) I am guessing she also has more than 1 nest per queen (female cat) per year

In the event, you'd like another BSH, I recommend a proper breeder:

i) The actual pedigree certificate is only 12 euro 50 cents. The reason WHY real pedigrees are more expensive (but in the end, a good breeder only loses money despite the 'high' price while a backyard breeder actually gets a profit) is because there are rules like tests, vaccinations etc. which cost a lot of money.

ii) The kittens are 100% British Shorthairs

iii) Officially, the kittens can only leave the nest at 13 weeks old (usually) or older so they are stronger and better socialised. Furtheremore, there is a minimum weight of 1.2kg (however for British Shorthairs, I have pretty much never heard of kittens who are only 1.2kg at 13 weeks old. They are usually quite a bit heavier)

iv) The breeder usually loves and wants the best for them, so they get good food and such which again helps them with being stronger.

v) They leave the nest vaccinated (usually twice), microchipped, passport etc.

vi) And very important, the parents are tested. HCM for example is a pretty widespread problem with British Shorthairs.

vii) You also get a contract which clearly states what it covers or not (not everyone provides this but you can always ask)

viii) Queens have a maximum of 3 nests in 2 years but most registered breeders only have one nest per year

And so you're not shocked: the price range for a pet BSH in The Netherlands is 500-650 euro but then you pretty much won't have any vet fees until their vaccination next year.

----
How's the little guy? What are his options now that he has this intestine problem? Since he mews so loud and often, it sounds like discomfort/pain? What did the vet say about that?


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

We just came back from the vet... With the worst news we could get  Two vets had a look at him, and they both agree there is nothing we can do for him, he is dying... :crying: You can see all his bones while he walks, not muscles at all... They say they could try IV feeding, but they don't advise it as it will only make his suffer longer, as his digestive system does not work and will most likely not work afterwards.

They said that we did all we could do, but that the kitten must have been already born with a disease in his digestive system that was not discovered. They went with us through all the documents we got from the breeder and her vet, and they say that they cannot understand how the vet could certify in good health a kitten that with 9 weeks was only about 600gr. 

They are helping us trying to get our money back and a refund from all the expenses in the vet (more than 100euro so far, and still we will have to put him to sleep, plus the 375 for the kitten), by preparing a file in which they state all the checks and medicines he has had, and basically that we got the kitten on 21st May (with no weight written on his passport) and take him to vet on 24th morning, when they weighed him as 560gr. 

They advised exactly the same than you, so we are trying to do it in an informal way, but they say that she must accept the sickness was within 10 days of taking him home and everything is documented, hence we could use our 'rechtsbijstand' (sort of legal support that apparently we should have included in our normal insurance in the Netherlands, I didnt even know about it, but my boyfriend fortunately does), so she will try to avoid that in any case, as apparently she would be liable for selling the cat too young and underweight.

The vets said that in other circumstances they would put him to sleep already today for avoiding him more pain, and to avoid us also all this awful experience, but that for being covered by this insurance we must first wait for her acceptance or at least reply  So they gave him some injection to stop his nausea and pain... that's all they can do...

This is being really hard... I really regret not getting him from a proper breeder, but she really looked reliable, and I still have hopes that she gives us a nice outcome, even though I would really prefer the money and get another cat from a properly registered breeder... 

Thank you all once again for your advice and support, I'm glad I found such an active and helpful forum.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

aww i am so sorry  you sound like a lovely person who loves your kitten & i wish the outcome could have been better  poor little baby x


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Sorry to hear that It's probably for the best to put the poor guy out of his misery I am glad that at least, he has some pain medication now. 

Is it possible that the passport with the health check is fake (maybe can call the clinic in question and check)? It just sounds so dodgy that a vet would say he is very well when he's only 560g (even if he lost some weight by the 24th, 600+g is really light anyway (my kittens are usually already above 1kg by 9 weeks old and the boys are already 1200/1300g by then). And don't forget (for the future) that no kitten should leave on the day it was vaccinated (official rules of organisations is at least 1 week after a vaccination). 

I'm glad your vet is helping you out with this (very nice of them) and it is probably easiest if you do the whole refund thing informally. Maybe they'll (the BYB) think it's too much work and trouble and will refund you. As your boyfriend speaks Dutch, it will probably help. It is your choice if you are willing to accept another kitten from them but I can tell you that from what I hear, it all sounds very very dodgy (they might look nice but just because a man wears a suit whilst selling stolen goods at the same time does not mean he's trustworthy!). You might get lucky but it's also possible the new kitten gets HCM or whatever in the future which will cost you lots again. I'm shocked at the price: 375 euro for an untested, ill kitten who only stayed with his mum for 9 weeks or less, with only one vaccination, probably no stud fees etc. 

I would be interested to find out if the BYB agrees to refund you. And if you feel like it (don't worry, I am not going to contact them or something, I am just curious and also can google to see if they have had other complaints against them), you can send me their details (name, area, I'm guessing you found them on Marktplaats?) via a private message.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

This is a very sad outcome. 

If you can, having a post mortem (autopsy) done will hopefully reveal what is actually wrong, and might give more amunition for trying to get your money back.


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Honestly, I feel so much like a fool right now... I thought that the difference in cost was only for the pedigree expensed, but obviously the info I cheched was wrong... And I realized that the cat was small when we got him, as my previous kittens were just abandoned kittens and were about the same size, I was expecting a BSH much stronger, but as all the nest was that size and the breeder mentioned that it was because they were 5 that they are smaller... With the document of the vet signed I thought I was just being paranoid...

The vets said that the passport is perfectly legal though, so I hope we have some chances on that regard... They are being really helpful with us, they are even not charging all the consults (only 2 plus medicines of 5 times we went and 4telephone consults), as they say they cannot do anything more of help and we have already enough with this...

Indeed I found her on Marktplaats... How can I send you a private message, Pipje? As I am new I do not have all the pm functions available, or I do not know how to do it. Also the vets said that if she doesn't make herself responsible we will report that to some organizations and also in the internet, but I do not know if that will have any effect.

Does any of you happen to have an estimation on the cost of an autopsy? If we are finally not getting the refund of the costs, I rather keep the expenses at minimum, as in the end that will not help the cat at all by now... Or is it requested one autopsy for claiming a refund?

Again thanks to all... My little boy is sleeping now thanks to his new medicine sides to me... I feel so devastated for him....


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

so sorry to hear this i wish there was something that could be done for the little man, at least you get to spend some presious time with him,((((( gentle hugs to you and little kit )))))


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

I am at work and trying my best not to cry, which isn't working - poor little guy. 

This story is heartbreaking


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this, vesta. You must be completely devastated. You are doing the best you can under the circumstances. I am so sorry the angel doesn't look as if he will make it. I hope his remaining time is painfree and peaceful. So so sorry.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You need 25 posts to be able to send or receive a private message. 

At present you haven't posted enough - I can't send you a PM. I know it's hard right now, but if you can post away... 

Once you have enough posts when you click on her name where there is one of her posts, one of the choices in the dropdown that will appear is 'send a private message to pipje'.

Another thing not mentioned about a kitten from a good breeder is it nearly always comes with a week or two's supply of the food it has been eating, as changing can often cause an upset tummy. My two kittens I got last summer also came with a blanket each that smelt of home - it had been in the kitten's bed for a week or so before I collected them. They also came with their pedigree (including all the breed numbers and the registration numbers for the parents, grandparents and great-grandparents), their 'white card' from the GCCF signed so I could transfer them into my ownership, a receipt, 4 weeks free insurance, a toy each and a care leaflet. The leaflet told me what sort of litter and litter tray they had been using, and lots of stuff which someone fairly new to kittens might not know. A couple of weeks later they both had microchips as well, and the boy was neutered. Not many breeders in the UK early neuter compared to some other parts of the world, and not many microchip though if one learns how to do it it's not expensive to buy the chips.


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## KathinUK (Apr 7, 2013)

moggiemum said:


> so sorry to hear this i wish there was something that could be done for the little man, at least you get to spend some presious time with him,((((( gentle hugs to you and little kit )))))


Oh I'm sooo sorry to read this sad story Vesta. 
[[[hugs to you and your kitty]]]

Kath


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Cookieandme said:


> I am at work and trying my best not to cry, which isn't working - poor little guy.
> 
> This story is heartbreaking


 I'm welling up here as well.

Poor poor little kitten.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I still cant help but suspect that this kitten is younger than the breeder stated and that was just not physically ready to be weaned. Going back to basics and hand feeding with a bottle may have changed the outcome.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

On the other hand, failure to thrive is not all that uncommon. It may be a result of poor breeding practices or inbreeding, if the breeder is unethical. It is likely that the outcome would have been the same regardless.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> On the other hand, failure to thrive is not all that uncommon. It *may *be a result of poor breeding practices or inbreeding, if the breeder is unethical. It is likely that the outcome would have been the same regardless.


I've emphasised 'may' as sometimes it's plain bad luck.

However if the kitten is younger than stated then it's at one of the ages - weaning - where this can happen if (say) the kitten has a liver shunt. And in letting it go at that age (if that is the case) the breeder is leaving themselves open for this to happen. By 13 weeks the changes of failure to thrive starting to show are far, far less.


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> I still cant help but suspect that this kitten is younger than the breeder stated and that was just not physically ready to be weaned. Going back to basics and hand feeding with a bottle may have changed the outcome.


Ang2, I have asked the vets also after reading your post yesterday, but they say it will not help him now... I do not understand much of cat health (Im an engineer so quite far of my field, if not I would not have made so many mistakes in the first place...  ), so sorry if I explain it wrong, but the vets say that he is indeed 11 weeks now and 9 when I got him (they look at teeth and some other things), but just underdeveloped because he does not assimilate nutrients. He is 460gr and they expected a BSH male to be at least 1kg by now.

They say that if we go back to the bottle or syringe feeding he might survive a bit longer, but he will not develop normally or be able to eat by himself later, because his digestion just does not work.... For that reason, they say that it is better to prevent him for more suffer, and also us, that are staring at him 24h a day seeing how he consumes himself... I would like to be able to do something else than putting him to sleep, but I cannot stand seeing him crying so painfully 24h a day with no hopes f a later improvement... my poor thing, with such a bad luck...

Still no reply from the breeder in any case... Hope she will check all the nest as my vet adviced, as when I picked him up she gave away his 4 brothers and she has a new nest from other cat... Just to avoid that anyone else has to go through this experience...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> I've emphasised 'may' as sometimes it's plain bad luck.
> 
> However if the kitten is younger than stated then it's at one of the ages - weaning - where this can happen if (say) the kitten has a liver shunt. And in letting it go at that age (if that is the case) the breeder is leaving themselves open for this to happen. By 13 weeks the changes of failure to thrive starting to show are far, far less.


I can only echo this. I have had a hard time reading this thread as it sounds as if this poor little one has the same problems as my two little Lovehearts earlier this year 
My vet believed the problem could well have been a liver shunt and I was not happy to let them suffer any longer. If I had been an irresponsible breeder these two tiny angels might have been in another home before this was discovered
Vesta, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. I can only share your heartache ((()))


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

If he is in pain (it sounds like it) and the vets think he doesn't stand a chance, it's for the best.

Not sure how much an autopsy will cost (you can ask your vet), probably around 100 euro but as you know, vets have such a wide range of prices that it's so difficult to guess. The autopsy will help your case only if you go the legal way, I think (to prove that he died from an 'aangeboren afwijking' since the breeder could argue he died from a virus or something.

In your e-mail to your breeder (I assume you are waiting for her reply before you can put him to sleep??), you should also give her a deadline to reply. I am not a lawyer but remember reading somewhere that you have to give a 'redelijke termijn'. Since he is obviously suffering, I'd expect her to reply fast! His brothers might be lucky as this kind of thing could have been an exception but it still doesn't mean she is a normal, much less good breeder.

This article can provide more information too (also in Dutch): Nederlandse Vereniging van Kattenliefhebbers SAINT pro Cat (SpC)

P/S: I've sent a 'visitor message' to you about how you can get in touch with me.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

This is very heart breaking. I can't imagine what you are going through right now.
The joy of having a new kitten and then this. It must be totally devastating.
Having an Autopsy not only will give you the reason for his illness but also knowing what was wrong might help you in the long term.
I once had a young cat that fell ill and sadly died. I wish I had an Autopsy done as the not knowing as never gone away.
I personally would not have another kitten from this breeder. Because you will always be worried.
I would give yourself some time to grieve and I am sure with the help of this forum and also British short hair clubs (they might have one where you are ) you will be able to find the right Breeder and look forward to the future.

Sending you some Big Hugs. xx


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

:sad:I haven't read the last couple of pages, its too heartbreaking. I just want to say how sorry I am that you and your poor little kitten are having to go through this.

Dylan and I both send our most comforting hugs.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I still cant help but suspect that this kitten is younger than the breeder stated and that was just not physically ready to be weaned. Going back to basics and hand feeding with a bottle may have changed the outcome.


How young for goodness sake? I don't think the OP has done anything wrong at all. My kittens wean themselves onto raw at around 4 weeks old without issue and I'm pretty sure this kitten wasn't younger than that. Everything in this thread points towards there being something fundamentally wrong that could not have been changed.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

havoc said:


> How young for goodness sake? I don't think the OP has done anything wrong at all. My kittens wean themselves onto raw at around 4 weeks old without issue and I'm pretty sure this kitten wasn't younger than that. Everything in this thread points towards there being something fundamentally wrong that could not have been changed.


Nobody is pointing any finger of blame to the OP! *My kittens wean themselves onto raw at around 4 weeks old without issue * Yep, but when your wrench a kitten away from its mother too early with instructions to feed proper food, then it can have a very different outcome for under-developed kittens.

Havoc - you always quote like reading from a text book! Ive hand reared hundreds of orphaned kittens and they are not all the same at each week of growth.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The very part of my post which you have chosen to quote in bold type pointedly refers to my own experience - how can that be likened to a quote from a textbook?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

havoc said:


> The very part of my post which you have chosen to quote in bold type pointedly refers to my own experience - how can that be likened to a quote from a textbook?


You clearly suggested that ALL kittens are able to wean themselves at 4 weeks. So you have never had a kitten that has taken considerably longer to wean? If so, then youre very lucky!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I am so so sorry ... I was hoping you would have a better outcome at the vets today ..... Poor little love .... So sad


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

*Ang2*, your negative posts outweigh your good on this thread. I'm not the most well known on here but the OP has taken on all the info given to them and their vet agrees that there is nothing else to be done. Please have some compassion and don't make it more difficult than needs be by starting debates with other posters in this thread. I know you care about the kitten as we all do but causing arguments won't help and will only make the OP more worried and heart broken about the awful choice they have had to make.

*Havoc* did not post against anybody and was simply saying that in their experience kittens start to wean at 4 weeks, so even if the kitten was underage for leaving mum it would be unlikely that the kitten would be unable to consume normal kitten food.

This is a horrible thing to happen. I'm heart broken on your behalf *vesta*... You did everything you could. I hope you decide not to take another kitten from this breeder and instead get your money back if possible. My thoughts are with you.


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Just an update...

Vesta is doing bad, he has been all day sleeping and crying when he wakes up... eating a bit and the either diarrhea or vomit. Tomorrow we will put him to sleep, I guess there is no other option. This is being really hard....

The breeder did not reply to our email, thus we sent a text message asking her to read it as it was urgent, and she replied saying that she is abroad up to Monday so that she does not have access to her email. 

We sent her another text summarizing that according to our 'contract' and vet advise we must have her approval before putting him to sleep, and that the vet has serious suspections that the cat was not healthy when we bought it, so that we want a refund of the cost of the cat and expenses. 

Now she replied that she is not a cattery, that she only has 2 nests per year because it makes their children happy (curious that she sells them for 375euro, and that right now she has a new nest just posted on the same website where I found my Vesta). She states that she gave us a passport signed by her vet in which everything was in order, so she is not responsible for anything he got afterwards and that it is our cat and our responsibility.

We dont know whether to send her a new message back saying that the passport was not complete (the weight was not written) and that our vets weighed him in 560gr two days after we got him, far too low, and that we hope we can arrange this friendly, but that if she doesnt want to contribute to the cost we will explore other ways using our 'contract', umcompleted passport and vet support. Or maybe it is just better to talk to the vet tomorrow and listen their opinion... We just dont know what to do... It is too devastating the thing itself, and that she responds like that...

Thank you all for your support.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am so, so sorry but can only agree that it is best to end his suffering 
This is not a proper breeder that you have been dealing with, just someone who was hoping to make money from their cat  The fact that little Vesta is so ill may not be the 'breeder's' fault but to let him leave home so young and so underweight was her fault  She must have known there was a problem


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

I am so sorry for what has happened to you. I have no idea what you are going through, but you have my deepest sympathies. Your little one is lucky to have someone so caring and considerate. The position you are in is unimaginable, but you have done everything and more to help him. That is the most important. My thoughts will be with you tomorrow, may your little one run free and out of pain at rainbow bridge. 

That woman you dealt with sounds horrible and if life has taught me anything, it's that karma works it all out in the end.

Sleep well x


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

If his breeder had not given you approval for putting your kitten to sleep, disregard the contract and have him put to sleep as soon as you can. He is crying in pain and you can't just wait for her to come back from her holiday to make a choice that is effecting this little creature here and now. Your vet advised putting him down today, you have waited hours. Waiting any longer is just awful. At this stage I would cut my losses with contracts and insurance etc and just do what was right and worry about the rest later. 

I'm so sorry you are going through this and this "breeder" is absolutely negligent. 

You aren't alone and lots of people on here are thinking of you. X


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Oh Vesta I am so sorry.
What a dreadful time for you. No wonder you can't think straight.
I am sure some of the members on here will be able to advice you as to what you can do.
I cannot advice you as I have no experience in these matters.
My thoughts are with you at this very sad time.
This breeder seems to show no compassion to her kittens just seems to want the money and that's all
Please stay with the forum and hopefully you will get some advice.
We are always here to listen and help. xx


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh indeed I don't blame her that the kitten is sick, but to be honest I was expecting another reaction from her towards this situation... I think that if after 2 days I need to take him to the vet severely underweight, and after 16days of caring of him 24h a day with daily advise from the vets I need to put him to sleep, there was something wrong with him when we got him...

Anyway, I dont think I have many options to get any sort of refund... I just feel so fooled, and so heartbroken seeing the poor baby like this... And he fought for surviving, he really did, but... He just could not do anything :crying:


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Since she already basically said she does not want to give you a refund, then yes, I think you can send her the threatening email. I cannot help you with this since I don't know how these people think but I guess there is no harm trying (you already tried to ask nicely and she has said no). Basically if she is considered a private person, you are both on equal grounds but if she is a business, the burden of proof (that she sold you a healthy cat) is on her. 

Like the others have said, poor Vesta has suffered enough. Whatever the outcome of the argument between yourself and this lady, it will not be solved for some time (I doubt by tomorrow or even next week). Honestly, this lady really doesn't care at all for the cats and kittens because if she did, she would never have let him leave at that age, on the day of his vaccination, weighing that so I would also say cut your losses (but complain like mad about her) because it will be difficult getting your money back.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

I am so so very sorry , like many on here my heart is breaking for your little Vesta..... 

You have done all you can , this little man's fate was out of your hands , from the beginning :sad:..... 

We can all see the breeder (BYB) is irresponsible , and trying to pass the buck ...... 

I just want to say , Give your boy , lots of love and cuddles in his last hours , let him know in his short life he was loved .... I'm finding this really difficult to be honest , but nowhere near what you must be feeling/going through ... What an awful place to be in for both of you .... Heartbreaking (((((( Vesta))))) Please take care of little Vesta in his final hours , and yourself too


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I am so sorry you and your poorly kitten are going through this sad time, my heart goes out to you.

For now enjoy the special time you both have together, this so called (breeder) can wait and im sure you will get some advise on how to get a refund but please do not take another kitten from her. I expect your vet will if you ask write a report, photocopy and send to the (breeder) giving 14 days to refund your money in full before seeking other action, ensure you use recorded signed for so this (breeder) cant say they didnt receive it.

I can help you with legal websites if you wish via pm but for now enjoy cuddles and the rest can wait.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Also wanted to say that you can go to the Juridisch Loket to ask for free advice. Sometimes they will even write a legal sounding letter for you


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## KathinUK (Apr 7, 2013)

vesta said:


> Just an update...
> 
> Vesta is doing bad, he has been all day sleeping and crying when he wakes up... eating a bit and the either diarrhea or vomit. Tomorrow we will put him to sleep, I guess there is no other option. This is being really hard....
> 
> .....Thank you all for your support.


Oh my goodness me ... I'm so so sorry to read this continuing heartbreaking story of your poor little kitten Vespa.
I wish I could offer words of comfort to you at this sad time but all I can say is {{Huge Hugs}}

Take care 
Kath


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## cookiemom (Jun 23, 2011)

vesta said:


> They say that if we go back to the bottle or syringe feeding he might survive a bit longer, but he will not develop normally or be able to eat by himself later, because his digestion just does not work....


In light of his improvement when given the anti nausea meds I would be seeking another opinion from a more proactive vet.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

So sorry for how this has turned out. I would get the autopsy done, over here it's required as proof and can provide some answers.



Ang2 said:


> You clearly suggested that ALL kittens are able to wean themselves at 4 weeks. So you have never had a kitten that has taken considerably longer to wean? If so, then youre very lucky!


My personal experience has been the same as Havoc's appears to be, kittens eating solids at 4 weeks, none have taken considerably longer.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

How's Vesta today?

Googled the 'breeder' she got him from and saw that she (the BYB) has had kittens from some catteries (whom I assume are among the breeding cats at the BYB now). This just made me even more sure to neuter my next batch before they leave! You never know who they're going to


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

cookiemom said:


> In light of his improvement when given the anti nausea meds I would be seeking another opinion from a more proactive vet.


I would agree with you, but four vets checked him by now and they say there is no hope... Yesterday he had more antinausea together with his painkiller, but then he had diarrhea... And he is like 420g by now, he puts out way more than in... I just want to stop his pain (and ours)...

Pipje, he spent his night sleeping thanks to the medicines. Unfortunately my doctor forbid me to spend the night with him, for my own safety, as I am in my lower defense days after my chemo and all this didn't let me sleep in 3 nights... Also for that reason I do not think my body can stand the tension of more tests or autopsies, I am just too weak after this, and my boyfriend too...

But now that he woke up he is with us. He barely walks or cry anymore, but still he purrs a lot when he is cuddled, what make me thinks that he knows how much we love him 

About the breeder, we are printing all the documents (emails and texts arranging details) that we have to ask advice from the vets... We think that for selling him she showed a picture of other cat, healthier and bigger than the one we got (or the same before starting all his sickness)... We have lots of pictures that prove he was underweight when we got him. She is now selling a new nest, I just want to avoid that this might happen again to someone...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Please, have him pts. This is just dragging out the inevitable. At the end of the day it's only money, and he is suffering.


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

poor little baby ): im so sorry for the little mite. we had a similar(ish)experience but are just cutting our losses with regards to the money, I don't want it to turn into something about cash. its only money. if he's suffering, don't drag his life out unnecessarily. I know it's hard, it's the hardest thing I ever did, and I still find myself regretting it even though I KNOW it was the right thing to do. You just 'know' when it's time as heartbreaking as it is ): 

we have however got the rspca on the case, just incase there was anything untoward going on - of course our situation could have just been 'one of those things' due to the nature of what our kiity was poorly with, but as I couldn't get hold of the breeder to inform her, I contacted the rspca just to make sure other cats she may have are ok and for piece of mind really. I would hate to think that there was even the slightest chance something dodgy was going on and we did nothing and other cats/kittens had to suffer and other people to go through this


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Velcro said:


> <snip>
> we have however got the rspca on the case,
> <snip>


OP is in Holland I believe, so no RSPCA, but maybe they have their own organisations?


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> OP is in Holland I believe, so no RSPCA, but maybe they have their own organisations?


I think Velcro is saying they have a similar situation.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

So sorry that Vesta is not going to make it. I think the kindest thing to do now would be to pts.

Big hugs


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Our little Vesta was put to sleep this afternoon, so finally his pain and suffer is over, even though ours is still not...

Now we will try to get some refund from the cruel breeder (by now we know she is cruel), and all what it is in our hands so that this does not happen again to other buyers. Both out vets and the vet of the 'breeder' are supporting us on this, but that will be a topic for next week, now we don´t have strength for that.

Thank you all for your wishes, information and support. You were very helpful in this awful situation.

As I don´t want to finish this post so sadly, I would like to introduce you to my other panther, enjoying his 16th summer in Spain.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

dear Vesta

I have been following your thread, so sorry for your loss and your awful short time with your little one - run free at the bridge little one and be at peace - Vesta you did all you could x x


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

My thoughts are with you and your partner for the loss of your little Kitten Vesta.
It has been a very sad and difficult time for you both. Especially having yourself just gone through Chemo treatment as well. You did your very best for Vesta and now you need to rest and look after yourselves.
I hope that you can get something done about this breeder with the help from your vet.

Stay in touch and let us know how you get on .

R.I.P Vesta and run free at Rainbow Bridge xx


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## denflo (Apr 29, 2011)

I have been following this very sad thread, but had nothing useful to add. All I can say now is that I am so very sorry for the loss of your little one. You really did everything you could for him, sometimes, these things are just out of our hands. His suffering is now over for him and he will be safe and pain free, but always with you in your hearts and minds. 

For now, you must look after yourselves and concentrate upon re-building your strength after all you have been through, not least your own illness. I hope that when you feel ready, you will be able to take this awful 'breeder' to task over this whole sad affair so that there may be some justice come out of yours and your poor kitty's tragic experiences. 

RIP little one, pain free at the Bridge. 

Wishing you the very best for your own speedy recovery from another terrible disease. 

PS, Your other kitty is very handsome!


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## KathinUK (Apr 7, 2013)

vesta said:


> Our little Vesta was put to sleep this afternoon, so finally his pain and suffer is over, even though ours is still not...
> 
> As I don´t want to finish this post so sadly, I would like to introduce you to my other panther, enjoying his 16th summer in Spain.


Please accept my sincere condolences on the sad loss of your little kitten - please allow yourselves to grieve knowing you did everything possible to help Vesta. :cryin: :cryin: It may take a while but some day you will come to terms with this tragedy.

I lost a 4 month old kitten to a serious illness many years ago and it was a long time before I could even think of getting another one .. but we cat lovers have so much to give ....

Your other kitty looks very handsome.

Kath


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

RIP Vesta  Sleep well tiny boy
I hope you find get satisfaction from the 'breeder' but not at the detriment of your own health. Take care of yourself.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RIP Little Baby. xxxxx


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm sorry you lost your kitten. RIP baby.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry. No-one could have done any more for him or given him more love in his short life.
Take care of yourself now. Your ordeal must have really sapped your strength.

Sending hugs


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

Poor Vesta, run free with my Cloud

So very sad x


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear this news - but you did your best. Little Vesta runs free at rainbow bridge, pain free and knowing he was loved more than he ever could gave been. I hope you manage to relax now and get better yourself. Please do not forget how happy you made your little boy whilst he was here, he knew he was loved. 

I hope you stay around on this forum and keep us all updated with what's happening about the breeder. We are all here for support. Thank you for your treat of the picture of your other little panther - absolute gem.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I am so very sorry. This has been such an awfully difficult and sad time for you, take care. Hope your little panther is giving you some comfort. Sweet dreams Vespa. x


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi all,

I have been completely offline during these last weeks, but I wanted to give you a last update with the issues of our kitten Vesta.

In the end, after having him pts, the backyard breeder gave us back the money that we had payed for the kitten, no without some serious threatening with legal actions from us, our vets and even the support of her vet... I just feel powerless now for so many kittens that have those careless breeders, hope nobody needs to experience the same :-( 

I just wanted to thank you all once again for your advice and support (specially Pipje, that helped me a lot even to find a new kitten and to deal with the BYB), also in the hardest moments after the poor baby was pts. I have learned a lot in here for not making the same stupid mistakes with my new kitten. Now we are waiting for getting soon a new kitten from a registered breeder. I will introduce her when she is home 

For the rest, hope you are all doing great!


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

your story had us all very upset. it was so sad what you and the little kitten went through but i am really pleased that you managed to get your money back. i can't wait for you to have your new baby in your home - it will take a lot of the hurt away. do please keep us updated - we will all love to see your new kitten when he/she finally arrives home. good luck with your new baby, i'm sure you will have a completely different experience this time around


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Great to hear you are going to use a registered breeder next and believe me you will see a world of difference in the quality of the kitten all the best keep us updated with lots of piccys.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

This whole thread was just so sad to read. I really hoped for a good outcome, and was so upset to see that you had to put little Vespa to sleep. I am so, so sorry.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Thank you so much for keeping in touch with us on the forum.
We all were so deeply upset by what happened to you and your Kitten.
These BYB don't do it for love of Animals they just do it for the money.
Where as a proper Breeder does it for Love and making people Happy.
I am so look forward to seeing your new Kitten.
He/she will help brighten up your life again.
You will never forget Vesta he will always be there in your Heart.
Hope little Panther is doing well and giving you lots of cuddles xx


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

I am happy that you managed to get your money back from that BYB, I know it will not take the hurt away for what happened with little Vespa, but it may bring you some closure. I know you will never forget him and the love you gave him for the short time he was with you will have made all the difference to him. You cared and loved him like he would never have realised. 

I hope the new kitty brings you the joy that you deserve and you will share all your antics and pictures with us all here. 

I also hope that you, yourself are doing well after all this stress.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm glad you feel ready to take a new kitten into your home. I'm sure she will bring you great joy, which you really deserve after the sadness of losing Vesta. 

I'm so pleased you got your money back too. Not because money makes you feel any better - but because you've hurt the BYB in the only way that means anything to them - in their pocket. 

I look forward to seeing the photos and being introduced to your new baby.


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## KathinUK (Apr 7, 2013)

vesta said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been completely offline during these last weeks, but I wanted to give you a last update with the issues of our kitten Vesta.
> 
> ...


Hi Noa and thanx so much for the update.

Like lots of others have said this was a very sad situation for yourself and little Vespa.
It ws very upsetting to hear about and I hope you're feeling a little better now.

I think you're right to find another kitten - especially one from a good breeder.
Please keep us up to date with lots of piccies - AND take care of yourself 

Kath


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, we finally got our little Lola  Ohh she is so cute! and she does eat a lot! (at this moment that makes me veeery happy). You can find a couple of pictures attached, still not so many, she is very very playful but still very irritable, she doesn´t allow us to pet her, I guess that it has to with the change. And we went for a BSH because they are claimed to be calmed, well Lola isn't exactly that, but she is already the queen of the house! Hope you also like her 

And yes, I am also doing much better myself after all this experience has gone... Still I think of Vesta a lot every single day, but I think we did all we could... And my Panther is doing great in Spain with my family, but a bit too warm for his 16th summer, he is always hiding in the shadow!

And, just one more question... Probably I am being overworried after Vesta's experience, but when is sneezing too much for a cat? Lola sneezes like 6-7 times a day and I was not thinking of taking her to vet until next week as then she has her new vaccination appointment (there is of course no fluids at all on her nose or eyes), but I wanted to know your opinion as well  For the rest, she does more than perfect! :001_smile:

Thanks all for being there!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lola is a real sweetie :001_wub: and I hope she helps to mend your heart after your experience with poor Vesta 
If there is no discharge from her nose or eyes then she may be sneezing because of an allergy - maybe just a temporary thing with a change of home. I wouldn't worry over much but mention it if she is still sneezing when you take her to the vet.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

vesta said:


> Well, we finally got our little Lola  Ohh she is so cute! and she does eat a lot! (at this moment that makes me veeery happy). You can find a couple of pictures attached, still not so many, she is very very playful but still very irritable, she doesn´t allow us to pet her, I guess that it has to with the change. And we went for a BSH because they are claimed to be calmed, well Lola isn't exactly that, but she is already the queen of the house! Hope you also like her
> 
> And yes, I am also doing much better myself after all this experience has gone... Still I think of Vesta a lot every single day, but I think we did all we could... And my Panther is doing great in Spain with my family, but a bit too warm for his 16th summer, he is always hiding in the shadow!
> 
> ...


has she had any vaccinations with the breeder? sometimes they can get the snuffles after a vaccination.

Most breeders do both vaccinations before they leave so I wonder why it was that the breeder didn't do this for you.

She does look like she will be a nice little brit


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Gorgeous photo. Lovely lovely Lola.  

Thank you for sharing her with us!

Can I just ask (it will bug me if I don't!) in the second photo on her side, her fur looks red? Why is that - or is it an odd light?


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> has she had any vaccinations with the breeder? sometimes they can get the snuffles after a vaccination.
> 
> Most breeders do both vaccinations before they leave so I wonder why it was that the breeder didn't do this for you.
> 
> She does look like she will be a nice little brit


Yes, she had her first vaccination two weeks ago. That was one of my questions when we discussed with the cattery. She mentioned that in the past, they were doing the two vaccinations to the kittens, but that now they decided to change the second vaccination for the chip, while maintaining the same prize than before, and then do the vaccinations a bit later than they used to. The second vaccination will be put by the new owner (on the 12th) and (reading between lines) is like a way also to make sure that the kitten is checked by her new vet soon. I read a bit on the topic and Pipje mentioned also that some breeders are starting doing so (actually I found more catteries following this policy here, so I am worried of the new vaccination indeed, because I didn't want to take any risk, but hope it goes fine this time!)


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## vesta (Jun 5, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Can I just ask (it will bug me if I don't!) in the second photo on her side, her fur looks red? Why is that - or is it an odd light?


Wow! that's having an eye on detail! Haha it is red indeed, I intend to teach her to walk with me in the common garden of the building when she grows up, but then with the belt (leash? don't know the correct English word ), so I am trying to make her get used to the feeling of wearing the harness (that does not bother her at all, to my surprise!), that is indeed red :wink5:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

vesta said:


> Yes, she had her first vaccination two weeks ago. That was one of my questions when we discussed with the cattery. She mentioned that in the past, they were doing the two vaccinations to the kittens, but that now they decided to change the second vaccination for the chip, while maintaining the same prize than before, and then do the vaccinations a bit later than they used to. The second vaccination will be put by the new owner (on the 12th) and (reading between lines) is like a way also to make sure that the kitten is checked by her new vet soon. I read a bit on the topic and Pipje mentioned also that some breeders are starting doing so (actually I found more catteries following this policy here, so I am worried of the new vaccination indeed, because I didn't want to take any risk, but hope it goes fine this time!)


Oh right I guess some breeders just do things different.

I give 1st vac at 9 week then chip at 11 week then 2nd vac at 12 week.

I have had snuffles inbetween but only very mild like 1 day or so.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

vesta said:


> Wow! that's having an eye on detail! Haha it is red indeed, I intend to teach her to walk with me in the common garden of the building when she grows up, but then with the belt (leash? don't know the correct English word ), so I am trying to make her get used to the feeling of wearing the harness (that does not bother her at all, to my surprise!), that is indeed red :wink5:


 a harness


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Yep harness. Ahh good plan with the training  I am so happy for you and for Lola to have such a loving new family.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

As Vesta said, more and more breeders in NL are changing their vaccination schedules due to recent studies which have shown that kittens vaccinated at 9 and 12 weeks old are actually not protected 0_0 (the pharmaceutical companies admit this). I will also be doing this with my next litter but have to see how I can fit my early neutering plan with this schedule... 

She is a lovely girl, Vesta


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

pipje said:


> As Vesta said, more and more breeders in NL are changing their vaccination schedules due to recent studies which have shown that kittens vaccinated at 9 and 12 weeks old are actually not protected 0_0 (the pharmaceutical companies admit this). I will also be doing this with my next litter but have to see how I can fit my early neutering plan with this schedule...
> 
> She is a lovely girl, Vesta


so studies are showing it to be a waste of money vaccinating as standard? That would be an interesting thread to see others view on this.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> so studies are showing it to be a waste of money vaccinating as standard? That would be an interesting thread to see others view on this.


Apparently, the pharma companies now include this information in their leaflets but I have never seen them since my vet just vaccinates and all I get is a sticker in their (kittens) passports. According to the article by a feline organisation, this information (vaccination from 12 weeks onwards) was in the leaflet years ago but then they changed it to 9 and 12 weeks and now to 12 weeks again (unless of course the kitten was not cared by mum and did not receive any antibodies then they should indeed be vaccinated even earlier) or will include the fine print (vaccinating at 9 weeks could cause severe reactions).

Reason why the vaccinations are said not to work is because the mother's antibodies fights against the first vaccination so they all end up being useless (which was shown in the antibodies titre). Actually some even recommend vaccinating the kitten with a live vaccine at the age of 16 weeks old but since feline organisations have the rule that kittens can only leave the nest with a minimum of 1 vaccination, no one I know does...


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## Miaunet (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi.

I watched your thread from the beginning and i was truly hoping the little one would make it. I am sorry for your loss and for the pain you both felt. 

Lola is beautiful, congrats, hope you have many many happy years together.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Reason why the vaccinations are said not to work is because the mother's antibodies fights against the first vaccination so they all end up being useless (which was shown in the antibodies titre). Actually some even recommend vaccinating the kitten with a live vaccine at the age of 16 weeks old but since feline organisations have the rule that kittens can only leave the nest with a minimum of 1 vaccination, no one I know does...


There has been much talk here and in the states of a third dose at 16 weeks. This would then cover all kittens, those whose maternal antibodies wane early and those who take longer. I'd be very happy with vaccinating at 12 and 15/16 weeks and it wouldn't be against GCCF rules. Unfortunately it is against their recommendations so many new owners would question the protocol.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Lola is scrummy :001_wub:


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## Harry Celik (Oct 1, 2019)

Hello everyone I have a similar problem I wish I read this blog sooner I’m thinking if I had given our bsh DUMAN liquid cats milk when we noticed the appetite issue it may have been different.
It has been almost a week of daily visits to the vet and they are saying that the liver is now too weak they didn’t tell us our kitten is too small to eat kitten food!!!
only if I knew that cats milk could have made a difference.

I think it we will be putting him down tomorrow at the vet.


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## Harry Celik (Oct 1, 2019)

Duman was also eating at the pet shop and eating a little when at home but only vomited once another difference was when we force him food with the syringe he makes a grinding noise.


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## Harry Celik (Oct 1, 2019)

The more we fed him with the food that the vet gave us with a syringe the worse he got I’m guessing a kitten milk formula would have been better I’m keeping him warm now but he is on his last moments he can only breath and stare in my eyes as if to say goodbye.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Harry Celik said:


> The more we fed him with the food that the vet gave us with a syringe the worse he got I'm guessing a kitten milk formula would have been better I'm keeping him warm now but he is on his last moments he can only breath and stare in my eyes as if to say goodbye.


I'm so sorry to hear this 

Can you not try to syringe him some kitten milk formula to see if he will pick up?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Poor little boy 
Feeding kitten milk formula or goat's milk would be better than solid food.


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## Harry Celik (Oct 1, 2019)

Treaclesmum said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this
> 
> Can you not try to syringe him some kitten milk formula to see if he will pick up?


QR 
we could if the vet gave us some or if we had some at hand the vet said because duman couldn't get the nutrients he needed for some time his kidneys is too weak to recover he passed away few hours after I wrote that comment.
Lesson to others If you believe you're kitten is too small or not eating take it to the vet day one not day three. Actually just take it to the vet first day they spend the night at your place just for a check up.

Have kitten milk ready observe their eating and also their energy level plus weight if the kitten is not eating or drinking often starting to be lazy or maybe vomiting star giving kitten milk instead if not drinking by it's self syringe it.
Take it to the vet ASAP but don't rely on the vets stock of food as they might not have kittens milk and they will palm you off with soft kitten food.


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## Harry Celik (Oct 1, 2019)

Harry Celik said:


> QR
> we could if the vet gave us some or if we had some at hand the vet said because duman couldn't get the nutrients he needed for some time his kidneys is too weak to recover he passed away few hours after I wrote that comment.
> Lesson to others If you believe you're kitten is too small or not eating take it to the vet day one not day three. Actually just take it to the vet first day they spend the night at your place just for a check up.
> 
> ...


Rest In Peace DUMAN


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am so sorry that you lost him  RIP Duman
Kittens go downhill so quickly so I would always advise a prompt visit to the vet at the first sign of a problem


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

So sorry to hear the sad news. Another lesson is not to buy from pet shops. I know it's normal in some countries, but when we had them in the UK they were a source of kittens that were far too young to leave their mothers, and which often were also undersize for the age and already ill.


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