# Rescued a cat but not sure if it's a stray or came from a bad home.



## David Davidson (Jul 4, 2016)

Hi. Skip the first paragraph if you want to skip over the previous cats we've had Over the past few weeks we've had a a cat start coming into our garden and eventually into the kitchen for food. Our past two died within a year of eachother, one of old age (a heart attack I would assume as I nursed her every step of the way until she tried to stand up, yelped and fell over with her left paw curled right in) the other died of a freak accdent (we'd rescued her from neighbours who were smokers and were using her as a breeding cat (she was a ragdoll) with no care for her health they didn't even care that we were her new keepers. When she came to us she was thin as a could be and just wanted fed, we found out that she had been losing teeth to decay so I extracted one (we used rum and lidocaine to numb the pain) but the last infected tooth came out with barely any force whatsoever. All I had to do was grab it in gloved hands, wiggle slightly and pull and it simply dropped out. The rest of her teeth were badly decayed for the rest of her life but we managed, she must have had a lung problem (the previous owners were heavy smokers and I reckon they had her since she was a kitten) as she'd flatten down and cough (without any furballs coming up) frequently, turns out that during one of these coughing sessions she must have inhaled part of a twig, a small shard of glass or a splinter which entered and punctured her left lung giving her pneumothorax, she looked awful when we brought her to the vets and were told that even with a very expensive operation (akin to open heart surgery) she'd only have a maximum 25% chance of survival, their recommendation; as she'd been with us for 8-9 years was to put her down while she was sedated, which we chose.

Cut to about one year later and we have a tabby on top white on bottom absolutely beautiful shorthair start appearing in my back garden. Even though he was the skinniest of all the cats using my back garden as territory he fought tooth and claw to make it his, he even has a little scar on his nose from it. It took about a week to get him into the kitchen, another week to get him into the downstairs hallway and about a fortnight later he started exploring every inch of the house, opening cupboard doors, looking up the chimney and has now made my bed his bed too and unlike my previous two cats who would move if you moved your toe an inch he just moves spaces and goes back to sleep. I wake up regularly in the night and usually get a faceful of cat while trying to check the time, he still doesn't like the sound of the alarm clock/phone and will either go to his first place that he slept which was under my bed and impossible for a person to get or if I've left the door open a crack he'll go out the door. Other than that he's a good cat, named him Loki (not the Avengers/Thor movies Loki but the original Norse mythology Loki where he's more of a trickster/mischievous god), which he definitely is as he can go one place and appear in a complete different place (where he would need to have gone past me) I went down to the vet to get him some broadline in case he had fleas or worms (it's like the spot on back of the neck topical liquid) naturally I read the whole insert and checked every active for contraindications as I'm going into pharm-chem lab work hopefully in a year or two and know that some of the spot on treatments have contained the wrong pesticide and killed the cat in a similar fashion as nerve gas would kill a human, everything checked out so the cat got it. However the vet was very eager to bring him and have a look at him, pretty much trying to get me to book a date there and then to check his teeth (I was shooting pics with my DSLR and got a blurry one of him yawning, the rear molar seemed to have some decay but no swelling of the gums. Another thing they wanted to do was check if he was chipped and if he was contact the original owner, which I'm not comfotable if they demand him back as they've failed to get him neutered, he's gained visible weight here and such.
Has anyone ever been in a situation like this? What should I do? I don't want to end in a custody battle over a cat since some people see them as material possessions. He's clearly voted with his own four feet where to live, personally I think it should be up to the cat.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Welcome to the forum David.
Well, clearly it would be an idea to get him scanned for a chip. My guess (and it's only that) would be that if he hasn't been castrated he won't have been microchipped. If you take him in to be scanned and there is no chip, how long would you wait before you assume he's a stray (which, as you say, he might not be)?
Any vet who sees him will want to castrate him, and as you say, there may be a dodgy tooth or two. Then you will be advised to bloodtest him for FIV if he is an entire Tom who may have been in numerous fights and become infected.
So, you re going to have a few bills for a cat which may then be ''claimed''. Have you actually put up notices for a ''Found Cat''? Or have you tried putting a collar on him with a note attached, that way if he goes ''home'' (if he has one) the owner will have the chance to let you know.
He sounds as tho' he likes living with you, but I really think the first move should be the scan. Whenever I have had a cat spayed/castrated, I have had a chip done at the same time...but some people just don't believe in neutering.
_TBH I'd be completely loath to do any sort of DIY dentistry on him tho'...I think that should and must be left to the professionals._

Good luck.


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## David Davidson (Jul 4, 2016)

Luckily I happen to be on benefits in the UK (torn ACL and PCL, bone spines growing up in my knee and the meniscus is thinning fast; I can barely walk 1/4 mile without being in 5/10 pain and I've been in _severe_ pain before, half a mile I'll usually have to base myself off a friend and limp the so I can go to a vet where it's £5 to get his balls lopped off (though I'd hate to do that to him; even though feline populations can bloom extremely fast) and the if dentistry and bloods are needed they'll be dirt cheap too thankfully. The only unfortunate bit is I've to bring him to one vets that is an absolute menagerie which will terrify him (usually we would keep our cats in a harness with a seatbelt through it in car transport rather than a cage/box but he'd need to be in there to be castrated which is why I'm holding off on the ops and the bloods a little.
When we first got him his tail was always swishing, even when lying down (I even thought he was tearing up carpet under my bed until I realised that "thud, thud, thud" was his tail. This behaviour has all but stopped the end will twitch a bit but when eating he used to sweep the floor with his tail; so I assume he was excited and anxious about getting a home and now is a little more relaxed.
If he isn't chipped I'll definitely be getting him done in case the original 'owner' tries to claim him back as 'personal property' in which case I'll use the chip and call the RSPCA saying the cat came here in a bad state, very thin, poor dental health and very timid but has grown to become very trusting, he voted with his feet and I have him chipped so this other person either had him as a kitten and mistreated him or just left him outside with high sugar foods (at the start he would eat *anything) *now I have him on a proper balanced cat food diet.

Here's two photographs I just grabbed off him showing how comfortable and relaxed he is in my home, he's currently belly up (a sign of total trust usually as belly up exposes vital organs) on my bed where he'll probably remain until he wakes me up for morning feeding.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Sweet cat.

The vet cannot and should not dispense Broadline without seeing him because it's a POM-V (prescription only) medication.

I'm afraid if you don't make a reasonable effort to locate an owner (check for a chip, advertise him, knock on doors etc) then you would be potentially guilty of theft under UK law. Cats are classed as chattels and because of cats' known propensity to roam about, it's not as simple as 'finders keepers'.

I agree he absolutely must be castrated.

And if he needs dental treatment, he should receive it. His welfare and comfort are paramount of course.


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## David Davidson (Jul 4, 2016)

Well we already have an 'account'/record down at that particular vet so I showed the vet some pictures off my phone, they gauged his age and then sealed it with "shorthair; Loki" and more prescription seals. I've always got frontline/broadline off a vet without them seeing the pet; no matter which vet it is. That being said I did pose a lot of questions about contraindications, if it was 100% safe for cats, if it definitely killed helminths (worms) as well as fleas and ticks. However in the past I've been asked "run on down to the vets and get X packs of frontline" never was I asked to present the animal.

I'm not making a reasonable effort to locate the owner as the cat entered through a cat flap and isn't being held against it's will, it can leave if it wants; when it wants. If I get accused of theft I'll bring the RSPCA into it as he was extremely thin, not neutered, without a collar (though most cats here are) and had entered the home on multiple occasions without any coaxing or special attention. I've been checking the local shop for "lost cat" posters and nothing has showed up. When we lost one of our cats for two days we had posters out on every lamp-post and telegraph pole within a 1/4 sq mile (the poor thing had climbed too high up a tree and needed talked into climbing back down), nothing like this has happened and I would honestly like to see the police try to arrest me for stealing a cat which would honestly be the funniest court case I had ever heard of and I don't think it's ever happened. However when it comes to police; no warrant, no entry and if they break down the door they are treated as intruders with firearms (Northern Ireland) and I will defend myself with countermeasures.

His welfare and comfort are definitely paramount and if my cat had been missing for a fortnight then there would be posters everywhere, but with him; radio silence. If the 'owners'; tbh you can simply not own a cat, it is not a material possession, it is a sentient (not sapient) animal and goes where it wants, if people want loyalty they can get a dog; they've been domesticated longer and aren't self-domesticated like cats are.

Sorry if I'm coming across a bit irritable but I'd say the animal welfare act 2006 would trump the 1960s law of a cat being property.
"The Animal Welfare Act which passed into law in 2006 states that all animals kept as pets in the UK must have provision made for a suitable living environment, including the freedom to exhibit normal and natural behaviour patterns, a suitable diet, and protection from pain, suffering, wilful neglect and preventable disease."
Moving to a new house out of lack of being fed (lack of a suitable living environment) as well as the fact that he's gained weight as he's stayed here (suitable diet) when he came here he was extremely timid, tail always wagging, underweight (of which I've got pictures) now he rarely tail wags and is free to come and go as he pleases, he isn't being held against his will; in fact I keep doors and the cat flap open so he can come and go as he pleases; if the owners aren't out looking for him I'd say they don't care enough to look. One of our previous cats 'belonged' to the neighbours across the road, turned up at our door malnourished, losing multiple teeth and had a compulsive licking habit along with a lump on it's head suggesting it had been beaten; they knew the cat was living here but never said a thing. In fact the only time I heard them is when they started drunkenly fighting each other in the street and the police and ambulance turned up.
I see it as him voting with his feet, the doors to all rooms he visits are left open and he has a straight run to the cat flap. If he loved his previous owners and they loved him he wouldn't be here.

As for found cat posters. If I found a wallet I'd try and find the owner by the name on it if it contained cards with a name, if I found a parcel containing expensive goods misdelivered to my address I would hand it into the police lost and found after checking with my neighbours; I can't do that with a cat and if someone loses something (like when I left my expensive Bluetooth headphones in the college library and someone with the exact same pair picked them up by accident I called and left every detail until they got in touch with me and arranged a date and a place for me to pick them up; if something is lost and you value it you try to find it. If it is owned by someone and they demand it back I'll demand they pay the food and vet's bills.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

David Davidson said:


> I'll demand they pay the food and vet's bills.


Pay your bills? Good luck with that David, I don't see it happening somehow..

I realise you can buy Frontline/Effipro etc over the counter but with many others (the ones that actually work), my vet also wants to see the cat, or _have_ seen it within the last six months, before they would hand out a pack of, say, Stronghold. And if you take my advice, bringing the RSPCA into anything would not help one bit and they would not involve themselves in an argument over ownership; do him and yourself a favour and leave them out of it. He is likely just an entire Tom who has wandered outside his own territory looking for a girlfriend. Owners may have posted in his area which may not be all that local...Toms will travel quite a distance to find a mate! I must say, he looks lovely and as far as one can see, in good condition.
I'd first get him scanned for a chip and take it from there...you are clearly happy to have him and he looks totally content.:Cat


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Irritable? Fine.

I understand your frustration with this situation and I would agree that the Animal Welfare Act should trump the Theft Act. However, UK law is UK law and I was only trying to be helpful when I wrote my post.

I think you'd be very unlikely to be the subject of legal action in this case as it doesn't sound like the previous owners care, but if you were, that's the angle they'd be taking: theft. You took something belonging to someone else without any intention of giving it back or any effort to do so.

*While it may not apply to your case*, I value these laws because they may help stop someone from taking any cat that comes into their garden because they think it's stray, assume it's neglected (my cat is a greedy sod, doesn't mean he's being starved; and it would be easy to cry neglect when a hyperthyroid cat just starting out on treatment wanders into sight with a poor body condition and scratty fur) or just like it and decide to keep it.

I bolded 'while it may not apply to your case' so you don't have to explain it all again.

Cats not being material property is your opinion (and incidentally one I share) but it doesn't change how they are viewed under UK law. I am well aware that cats are sentient creatures. We can argue the ethics of animal ownership until the cows come home but it doesn't mean the law changes any more than debating whether the UK national speed limit should be raised to 80mph will magically make it so.

And re the Broadline, it is a prescription medication and should not be prescribed to animals not under the vet's care. What constitutes 'under their care' is not specifically stated in the Code if Conduct vets must follow, but is generally accepted to include a requirement for physical examination before prescribing.

Again, that's a fact and I don't wish to argue it with you because it's not my opinion to defend, it's a fact.

If your vet is prescribing without examination that's their lookout but hopefully they are able to justify it at their next VMD inspection... which I realise isn't your problem either.

Sorry, now I'm feeling irritated. I'm going to step out of this one now but wish you luck. And remember to get his teeth looked at.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Please put posters up and around the neighbourhood. You could also leaflet nearby homes. 

Also, check with the nearest vets to see if he's been registered as missing.

As someone who has a much loved cat, that's now been missing for 9 months now, I still consider my missing cat as -mine- and miss him every single day. Simply to say a cat goes where he likes is not, in my opinion, reason enough to start to treat him as your own. 

You dont know how long he's been missing for, which could account for how thin he is. He's not a feral. While he should of course be neutered, that's still not enough reason to declare him as yours.

Oh, and another thing - it's inhumane to pull a cat's teeth out, even if you did use lidocaine and rum? I would consider that to be causing suffering and distress to an animal. If you are on benefits, there's simply no excuse not to use the PDSA.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I think you are jumping the gun a little here and starting arguments where they may not be needed. I understand you feel the cat is better off with you, he looks very content, and I believe you're apprehensive you might lose him which is why you're reluctant to take him to a vet but even if you don't do anything now, at some point in his life you will have to take him and he will get checked for a microchip so, why not bite the bullet and do it now. With any luck, as he's not neutered he won't have one. If he does, then, unfortunately, the vet is legally bound to contact the owner who may or may not want the cat back if he's been missing quite a while. Why don't you want to get him neutered, which really would be the best thing for him? If its this man thing about not neutering male cats then you need to think again. There is already a huge population of cats out there without homes due to un-neutered cats and, frankly, its totally irresponsible not to do it. Plus it is much better for your cat's health if he isn't continually mating and fighting (this puts him at risk of FIV and other illnesses). I understand you've grown attached to him and want to keep him but I think you should do the right thing and go through the motions of seeing if he had a previous home starting with the microchip check. You did ask - what should I do?


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## claire8234 (Mar 8, 2013)

You lure a cat into your home and then want to get its microchip transferred to you or chipped in your name?! This is theft. My cat could probably be lured into someone elses house, doesnt make him their cat though. Shame on you


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## David Davidson (Jul 4, 2016)

Well I'll repost as he had disappeared as my grandmother (lives across the road and for some reason does menial chores like filling the dishwasher which I have to fix up) had locked him out despite me telling her multiple times "Don't bother him or lock him in or out, he is free to come and go as he wishes" by disappeared mean completely vanished for about nine days; before we would have saw him roaming the garden and other things. The only time someone _*thought*_ they saw him was in a street about 150 yards away as the crow flies, they said they saw what looked like him with a young (no more than four) year old girl holding him.
Afterwords I went to see what's what and had a look at the house from a distance, they had a cat box out the back as if they were using it to 'let a cat go outside for a bit'

Now at 0000, coming on 10 days of nothing he reappeared, he was *extremely* hungry to the point of me limiting food in case he was sick, though he would have eaten lemons if there was cat food on them. He had also lost the kilo or so he gained and was as skinny as when we got him, which was not good. Even if he does have owners they are guilty of starving him as he was skin and bone.

I'll see what happens over the next day and call the vet. One other thing that could have happened is that he was neutered, kept inside with a cat-lampshade and couldn't feed well.

I understand the idea that by UK law a cat is technically property, though as I learned (property damage) that unless I can get an expert to get the repair costs (then I could use the quote in court) the police cannot assign a value and therefore have trouble getting any money out of the culprit that they still have not identified despite 3 high res shots in burst as he was a drunken idiot who attacked the guy with the camera (despite me not photographing me) the police saw the whole thing and when a witness and I went to them (40 yds away, drunk guy had sat on bench) the police basically told me it wasn't their problem and to go to the station. I 'll maybe do a reccy of the cat box if it's been used for more than just transport and if so snap a few shots on my DSLR, then it really becomes animal abuse.

However he really wants to make this place his permanent home, I'm honestly of the opinion that you cannot keep a living thing as property unless it's a working animal or livestock


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

David Davidson said:


> One other thing that could have happened is that he was neutered


@David Davidson: You could see straight away if the cat had been neutered though? Either he has or he hasn't. On 6 July I suggested you should get him scanned for a chip, and others have since said the same; have you got round to doing it yet?
If, as your post implies, the cat has come back to your place, recently castrated, then someone may have got him chipped at the same time. You won't know unless you scan him.
I can't figure out where the cat box comes into the story either.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I think for the cat's sake you should find out if he is chipped or not. It would be the kindest thing to do.

It sounds as though he is a stray, as he lost so much weight in 10 days. If he is chipped and his owner can be traced and genuinely wants him back then that is surely for the good of the cat? If he is not chipped and you cannot trace the owner then you could adopt him, and that too would be for the good of the cat.. Either way it would be good to do all you can legitimately to help him. 

Chances are the cat you saw in a nearby garden was a different cat. If it was the same cat you've been feeding perhaps he goes to that house for food too. Stray cats often have several "food stations" they visit in turn.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

*Please* get him scanned for a microchip. I had friends who lost their cat because it sneaked into a delivery van & was driven a long way. The only reason they knew what happened was because the driver saw the cat bolt out of the van when he opened the door and rang the person he had delivered to before to find out if they or a neighbour were missing a cat. So they knew which area to put up posters in. If he hadn't bothered letting his customer know, or if the customer hadn't bothered finding out who the cat belonged to, they would have been hunting and putting up posters in the wrong place because the cat actually escaped about 50 miles from home.


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