# Could a male be fertile at 4 months?



## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

A customer of mine has just told me that they have a 4 month old rottie that her husband wants to mate with their cross bitch  she looks staff cross to me but they say she is rottie x mastiff but thats by the by

I have tried to put her off but she says hubby is adamant. Thing is the bitch is around 9 months and has just finished a season. Could the deed have been done successfully at his age?


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

it is possible,ive known of a 6 month old sireing a litter.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2012)

unfortunately , it is possible.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

More to the point, the bitch is way too young to be having a litter. Do they care that they might kill her?


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

I totally despair!!!!!!!!!!!


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

I have told her till I'm blue in the face but it's not sinking in, well I think she understands but won't stop him


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I have told her till I'm blue in the face but it's not sinking in, well I think she understands but won't stop him


 the poor bitch  It's situation like this that laws on ages for breeding might well help and if publicised enough would soon make people realise they just ain't going to sell the babies and could well face prosecution if their advertising is picked up.

I've been very lucky with my boys as they didn't really "acknowledge" anything until they were both around 18 months old - my eldest boy is still great - but my youngster is like a rampant teenager - we've had back to back girls ready for mating (they don't bother when they are not ready) and he's been doing his nut - annoyingly, they came into season within days of each other, but one was ready for mating on day 8 the other on day 16  

Sorry - I stray - yes - I've known of 4 month old boys totally aware of the ladies and probably more than capable of mating and siring a litter


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## Bullymastiff (May 6, 2010)

This is horrendous, both dogs are far too young!! I would report them...is it illegal to breed a bitch under 1?, or would the RSPCA do anything (yes i know i doubt it)? or is that just KC rules? 

Its wrong on so many levels 

But yes it is possible that the deed has been done, although hopefully not.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Bullymastiff said:


> This is horrendous, both dogs are far too young!! I would report them...is it illegal to breed a bitch under 1?, or would the RSPCA do anything (yes i know i doubt it)? or is that just KC rules?
> 
> Its wrong on so many levels
> 
> But yes it is possible that the deed has been done, although hopefully not.


Sadly, in answer to your question, no it isn't illegal and no - the RSPCA won't do anything about it.

I know of someone who did actually report a very similar situation a few years ago and I know they had no action on it - the owner of said dog responsible for the supposed accident before he was neutered - was then found advertised at stud at a cost of £50  producing all three colours, I have no doubt he would be high demand in the area they lived


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Marvin33 said:


> It is amazing!:nono:


What is? This thread is about irresponsibly and dangerously breeding from dogs that are too young, and you come along with a comment like that.

Spammer!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> What is? This thread is about irresponsibly and dangerously breeding from dogs that are too young, and you come along with a comment like that.
> 
> Spammer!


these are popping up all over the place - grrrrrr


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## bluegirl (May 7, 2012)

I agree, bitch is too young and sire is too young, but it could happen.

When my bitch had a litter of pups we kept a male, when he was 5 mths old his mother came back into season. he didn't particularly know what it was all about, but a few trips round the side of the house with his floosie of a mother soon gave him the idea. Luckily he was too small to line up properly and a catastrophe was averted.


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

Far too young to let him even try - with a rottie you want to have hip scored at least (has to be 12 months) and for choice to wait until over 2 years old - as for the bitch it's shocking that anyone is contemplating it at her age :-(

We can only hope that as it's a 'big breed' he may not have the maturity to sire a litter... fingers crossed for them both


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

bluegirl said:


> I agree, bitch is too young and sire is too young, but it could happen.
> 
> When my bitch had a litter of pups we kept a male, when he was 5 mths old his mother came back into season. he didn't particularly know what it was all about, but a few trips round the side of the house with his floosie of a mother soon gave him the idea. Luckily he was too small to line up properly and a catastrophe was averted.


Exactly the same happened in our house, except mum went off for contraceptive jab.


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## Glencuan (Jun 9, 2012)

I'm new of this forum so I don't know if any of the contributors to this thread are vets but in my experience the youngest I have known a dog to serve, successfully a bitch is nine months. This dog was being exported and the owner put him up on a bitch that was brought to his kennel to be mated be mated.

A comment to the effect that a dog can serve a bitch at four months because the contributor has known a dog to serve a bitch at six months is a bit illogical.

If somebody told me that their four month old dog had mated a bitch I would be asking them if they really knew the exact date of birth of the dog?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Opinion seems to be that Males can be fertile from approx. 6mths onwards, but also the breed in question can be a factor. Its an approximate though, not cast in stone. So I suppose like bitches who can come into season and be fertile at various ages even though the approx. can be from 6mths onwards so could dogs. At the end of the day if they are producing sperm and are capable of doing the deed then in theory its possible.

Both are way too young anyway, the bitch is still a pup herself and no way should a dog be bread on a first season or even a second. Its not only the physical implications that a pregnancy and whelp will put on her, but as barely an adolsecent and not mentally mature as well as physical its questionable if she is up to the job in that way as well.

Just when you think it cant get worse and you have heard it all there is always something else!! If I was the woman i would be sneaking the bitch off for a Mismate just to make sure.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Dont they care at all? 9 months old? Just a baby  The more I read and see things like this the less I like humans.

I hope that both are infertile dogs, horrible to say I know but less staffies/cross in the world the better, no need to breed these 2 babies together


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Glencuan said:


> I'm new of this forum so I don't know if any of the contributors to this thread are vets but in my experience the youngest I have known a dog to serve, successfully a bitch is nine months. This dog was being exported and the owner put him up on a bitch that was brought to his kennel to be mated be mated.
> 
> A comment to the effect that a dog can serve a bitch at four months because the contributor has known a dog to serve a bitch at six months is a bit illogical.
> 
> If somebody told me that their four month old dog had mated a bitch I would be asking them if they really knew the exact date of birth of the dog?


There have been dogs younger than this who have sired litters of that there is no doubt.

I had a 4 month old who knew EXACTLY what to do and would have done so had we let him - and yes, i dd know his exact date of birth.

The OP is talking about someone who actively wants the two dogs to mate, even though both are below 12 months of age, they are different breeds and neither has had any health tests.

The whole point of the thread is irrespective of whether the dog is capable or not, why would you take the risk? in this instance, one of the owners seemingly WANTS the dog to be capable and isn't taking active steps to prevent it happening.

As someone who owns entire dogs and bitches under the same roof all the time, I would never be so arrogant as to say a mating couldn't happen irrespective of the dogs ages - I know neither of my current boys would have had a clue about in-season bitches at 4 months old other than they smell "different" - but from the very beginning I've done my very best to ensure I do as much as realistically possible to avoid them getting together.


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## chaka (Feb 19, 2012)

I know of a 6 month old GSD who mated 2 bitches within 24 hours. The owner thought he would be infertile but 9 weeks later both bitches whelped healthy litters. And yes I knew the exact date of birth of the dog as I bred him.


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