# Neutering before show



## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

My bengal is booked in to be neutered on 22nd Sept but I wanted to enter him into a show on 25th Oct.

I have spoken to the vet who said he will try and inject the anaesthetic without shaving his leg but cannot guarantee it.

It is 4 weeks before the show but I know it can take a long time for the fur to grow back.

Has anyone shown a cat who has not fully grown back fur from an operation or would you say I would be best not bothering entering him.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

If it is a shaved patch which is clearly due to vetinary treatment then there is no issue although I suspect it may have mostly grown back. I showed a Selkirk last year with a 2 inch squared shaved patch due to blood tests and he had no problems vetting in and was awarded the certificate


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

My Vet managed to not shave any fur. My boy was neutered mid august and is being shown mid september. Won't be a problem.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

the fur is not likely to grow back in four weeks. they can gas him first and then give him pain relief which would keep him calm so they can find a vein but they risk blowing a vein doing that and then they will need to find another most likely with a shaving... also if they have any trouble sedating him the will probably need to shave as well. some kittens don't knock out easily. might be best to wait unless you are ok with losing the money just in case he's not ok for it. most places will also shave the incision area to clean it and make it sterile for cutting and removing the testicles. hope this helps you


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Soupie said:


> If it is a shaved patch which is clearly due to vetinary treatment then there is no issue although I suspect it may have mostly grown back. I showed a Selkirk last year with a 2 inch squared shaved patch due to blood tests and he had no problems vetting in and was awarded the certificate


ah well in that case go for it! just let the vet know to keep the shaving to a minimum and not let the new student nurse or the super shaver nurse to shave him!!! hahaha some of them go wild!! i'm like whoah you already did that bit!!!  lol


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

OK thanks for that.

It is only because it is a big show and we are trying really hard to get the silver bengals recognised fully in GCCF classes that as many people as possible are trying to show their silvers.

They are a stunning colour and I cannot see why they will not recognise them yet - but I suppose I am biased as I have an adorable one.

Here is my angel - Darwin

















Sorry they are big I have no idea how to put them on any smaller without it using the whole link to my photobucket account.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> OK thanks for that.
> 
> It is only because it is a big show and we are trying really hard to get the silver bengals recognised fully in GCCF classes that as many people as possible are trying to show their silvers.
> 
> ...


I will back you 110% i'm waiting for my lovely Silver from Dollycats! I will be looking to breed her soon so any advice on what stud to go with would be helpful!!! :clueless:


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

are they not recognised at all? or are they working through the grades?

Should be fine honest - I asked some judge friends the question last year before taking my boy and they said go for it and glad I did as he had a fabulous day


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

They are in asessment classes only at the moment.

He is a Silverglam boy - from Jill Fyfe she has some real stunners but I think her studs may be closed. Worth asking though


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> They are in asessment classes only at the moment.
> 
> He is a Silverglam boy - from Jill Fyfe she has some real stunners but I think her studs may be closed. Worth asking though


I believe she's out of Glitterglam Thriller so I will have to be careful not to inbreed!! will keep an eye open also going to the south western counties show and will look and mingle there


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Why don't you go to the Bengal & Ocicat show in October in Bracknell - I know it is a few hours drive but might be worth it to make some contacts


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> Why don't you go to the Bengal & Ocicat show in October in Bracknell - I know it is a few hours drive but might be worth it to make some contacts


might do will see how i get on with Erbsli and Trouble settling and and Erbsli might be calling soon so may need to be home!!!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> My bengal is booked in to be neutered on 22nd Sept but I wanted to enter him into a show on 25th Oct.
> 
> I have spoken to the vet who said he will try and inject the anaesthetic without shaving his leg but cannot guarantee it.
> 
> ...


 a good vet should easily be able to anaesethetise without shaving. My vet routinely doesn't shave any boys I take to her as she knows I show. I think you just have to be insistent with them.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't know anything about shows, but just wanted to say...Darwin is STUNNING, I just wanna smooch him


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Saikou said:


> a good vet should easily be able to anaesethetise without shaving. My vet routinely doesn't shave any boys I take to her as she knows I show. I think you just have to be insistent with them.


even good vets blow veins. dependent on the age of the cat and the breed and the coat it can be difficult to find a vein and then to be able to pull from it for intravenous administration. i find it easier on the inner hind leg or fore leg but some kittens have tiny lil veins!!! buggers lol

one time we sedated a 6 month old kitten because his tooth went through his lip and when we gave him the sedative he spazed out and freaked. i couldn't keep him still we ended up giving him a bit more until it got to a point were we said we couldn't give him anymore !! so we gave him some gas and finally got him quiet! was the strangest thing. it was as if it had an opposite effect on him. bless him scratched me to all hell!! lol (p.s. he's fine now just missing a tooth.)


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Our vets are brill at giving anesthetics without shaving. One of our girls was neutered midline and 3 weeks later back at a show, you would never of known she'd had anything done, they only shaved a tiny amount underneath, but you could'nt really tell with her being a semi-longhair*



> he spazed out and freaked


*Having a disabled child at special school, I hate that "S" word*


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Shaving has nothing to do with blowing a vein, they can do that even if they have shaved the cat, there is always an exception to every rule.

Point was it is perfectly possible to routinely administer anaesthetic without the need to shave, but sometimes you have to be firm with them because its easier for them to work on a shaved area.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Well when my girl goes into get spayed I will ask them to shave the smallest they can and will see what happens. My girl, who luckily I do not show came back with an entire bald belly from a midline spay. Never seen anything like it! 

My boy came back hardly shaved except for a large blue bum and back legs  but that stuff just washed right out so yay!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> My girl, who luckily I do not show came back with an entire bald belly from a midline spay. Never seen anything like it!


*OMG!! Poor thing, bless her. Mine don't do that even if they are not shown, sounds very drastic to me*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I was stunned, the cut was tiny but i think they must have had some new vet nurse shave her or something. Seriously it took months to grow back, i kept making her wear a cat jumper as it was january and cold


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Shaving has nothing to do with blowing a vein, they can do that even if they have shaved the cat, there is always an exception to every rule.
> 
> Point was it is perfectly possible to routinely administer anaesthetic without the need to shave, but sometimes you have to be firm with them because its easier for them to work on a shaved area.


lol sorry maybe i should have been a bit clearer. we shave so we can see the skin and the vein so when we lift the vein we can place the needle in properly and at a good angle so NOT to blow the vein.  
to administer an anaesthetic via tube in the throat and reduce choking the pet needs to be sedated with for sedation with Keteset or similar drug. 
which is usally done with a needle intravenously usually in the same place we use a 'wake up' drug antisedan to bring them out of the sedation after about 45 mins or so not to shock the system. many places do it differently. the anesthetic should be done with a tube to reduce choking and vomiting but some places only use the gas over the nose if it's only going to be for a short period. or they just sedate with injection... but in a vein.

hope that clears things up a bit. it is possible to do it but there is less risk when done the other way but like i said it really depends on the animals coat, skin, veins and cooperation!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Ahhh, bless her, bet it was dead itchy when it started to grow back too *


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Well I have been told that it is wait and see.
He is going to get his claws cut next friday and they will have a look at his veins then to see if they can get them to come up.
He definately needs doing though as I have just seen him try to mount my Tonkinese boy 
He hasn't started spraying or anything but I will just have to keep a close eye on him - we still have 18 days to wait.
He is booked for then as he is going to a show on 20th Sept and has been entered as an entire. ( DOB 20/02/08)


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

so he is being neutered after the 20th? then his next show is october?

will all be fine!

my neuter boy tries to hump my cats.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Yes thats right he is in a show on 20th Sept booked in for neutering on 22nd then in another show on 25th Oct.

I am a little concerned about him though as not only is he trying it on with poor Toby I have just caught him with my new baby Rosie - she is only 12.5 weeks old but he is getting very friendly with her 
I don't know whether I should get him done before his show in Sept as I don't really want him thinking about girls and other things.

Any opinions?


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> lol sorry maybe i should have been a bit clearer. we shave so we can see the skin and the vein so when we lift the vein we can place the needle in properly and at a good angle so NOT to blow the vein.


I understood that perfectly thanks  you misalign the needle you blow the vein shaved or not! Not shaving does not make veins blow, just as shaving doesn't guarantee they won't. Thats all down to the competancy of the person with the needle!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> I understood that perfectly thanks


i'm beginning to feel like we are being treated as if we are stupid.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> Yes thats right he is in a show on 20th Sept booked in for neutering on 22nd then in another show on 25th Oct.
> 
> I am a little concerned about him though as not only is he trying it on with poor Toby I have just caught him with my new baby Rosie - she is only 12.5 weeks old but he is getting very friendly with her
> I don't know whether I should get him done before his show in Sept as I don't really want him thinking about girls and other things.
> ...


it may be a one off. keep an eye on them, seperate for a few weeks if you need to.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I have put Rosie back in her pen now so will try and keep them separated.
I didn't think she would have an effect on him yet as she is so young but I guess I was wrong!!!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

in her pen????


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I have got a large kittening pen (penthouse products) in the livingroom for her as I wanted her to have somewhere secure to escape from the boys if there was any fighting. She is happy and curled up asleep in her bed.

I am not being mean to her.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)




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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I've seen the website that sells those, they do huge ones for outside don't they. She does'nt have to stay in thee all the time though does she ?*


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

No she is in it overnight and if we go out but otherwise she has free run of the downstairs.
I only put her in a short while ago as she was being terrorised by Darwin. Once I have got the kids in bed I will shut Darwin out of the living room and let Rosie out agin until I go to bed later.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

This one is a good size, it is the width of the patio doors and 2 to 3 ft deep so she has plenty room in it.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Sorry I didn't think you were being mean  I didn't remember she was a tiny kitten i was thinking cat. Sorry for writing that!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

That's a great pen!!! I want one! We have one but it's getting old. Don't use it for penning cats now but it's full of blankets and bean bag type beds and the cats love to sleep in it. Don't blame them, looks soooo cosy.

Your kitten looks cosy with her zebra  what breed is she? a Tonk did you say?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*It's a fab kittening pen*


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

No worries Fluffypurrs.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Yes she is a tonk, we were told to put a teddy in with her so she didn't get lonely.
I managed to get the pen on ebay for about £260 so saved quite a bit on a new one.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Wow, that was a good price, lol. Their products arn't cheap at all. She is soo cute asleep with her Zeb, lol*


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> I managed to get the pen on ebay for about £260 so saved quite a bit on a new one.


I remember that thread - it looks really good you did get a bargain!
Glad it turned up


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Saikou said:


> I understood that perfectly thanks  you misalign the needle you blow the vein shaved or not! Not shaving does not make veins blow, just as shaving doesn't guarantee they won't. Thats all down to the competancy of the person with the needle!


did i say that? i didn't think i said that... if you can't see the vein or feel it through the fur it's more difficult to gauge where you're going with the needle. i never said shaving blew veins lol i said shaving makes it easier to see what you are doing which in turn minimises the risk of blowing a vein for those that are super competent or not which in a lot of practices you will have from time to time. if you take your cat in to be spayed and that happens to be the day they are training a nurse you might find they shave it.

i wasn't calling you stupid but you seem to misunderstand me when i try to explain something so i put it simply so there wouldn't be any confusion but yet there still seems to be which maybe why i'm wording things simply. not trying to sound patronising or condescending. just wording it for others that may not understand as well as you do. there are a lot of smart cookies on here and i have loads to learn from them too. but there are also some people who have no clue and might be interested in more details. 

sorry for the confusion and upset for you.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Having a disabled child at special school, I hate that "S" word*


firstly I have a learning disablity (ADHD) and i also teach riding lessons to children and adults with learning and physical difficulties as a volunteer. i wouldn't use it derogatorily. Spaz or spazzed refers to Spasm when i use it, shame people use it hurtfully and assume that everyone who says it means it that way. not everyone is hurtful and rude like that.  it winds me up too.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Well it's the first time i've ever heard it used instead of the word Spasm. Maybe it's better to use the correct word in some cases to avoid unecessary upset. It's a horrible word however it's used.*


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Well it's the first time i've ever heard it used instead of the word Spasm. Maybe it's better to use the correct word in some cases to avoid unecessary upset. It's a horrible word however it's used.*


sure... anything else you like me to do ?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Don't tempt me lass!*


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Don't tempt me lass!*


lol  i couldn't resist you can't just tell people what to do!!! silly  i'll do as i like and if you don't like it ignore it. this is a public forum. my vocabulary and what i choose to say is really not in your control. i will do my best to be aware it bothers you but i'm not going to change what or how i say things because YOU like to assume the worst of people. sorry. not happening.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

come on guys it's off topic now 

Back to the original question. My boy was neutered a month ago on Tuesday and I had a look at him today (poor lad) and you can't see anything was ever done!


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Thanks Fluffypurrs, it was getting a bit off topic.

Just to let you know Darwin is now curled up fast asleep after a 2 hour marathon of chasing round the living room. He is not at all bothered that he is now missing bits and to look at him you wouldn't even know he had anything done.

He is still trying it on with Rosie though so hopefully he will settle down soon.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

he will calm down soon  glad he is doing ok. Will you be neutering your little girl or is she going to be breeding?


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

No she is for breeding. x


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