# Raw mackerel..HELP! :o



## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

sorry if this thread sounds very stupid, which I'm imagining it will.. 

Right,so.. 
At the beginning of this week/ end of last week I put a thread up labelled 'doggy dieting' and with help from a few members (thank you very much!) have started with his dieting and one of the suggestions that popped up was to occassionly substitute one of his meals for some raw mackerel. 

So, I've brought some raw mackerel for Enzo but I'm now stuck as to how to feed it to him o  ) it's obviously got bones in it because it's whole, but from what I understand aslong as it's not cooked it's fine? 

Should I give him the whole fish for one meal or cut it up and spread it over a few meals? (the fish weighs 181g) 

If I'm giving it in one meal, do I cut it up to give it to him..or? 

Sorry I'm really stuck as to what to do and would like to give it to him today before it starts to go off! 

Any help much appreciated, also Enzo is a 4 years 9 months pug who hasn't ever eaten raw before so is it deffinatly a good idea and how do I do it? 

Thanks


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Personally, I wouldn't give raw fish to a dog new to raw, and particularly not something like mackerel, as the bones are quite hard and sharp. 

I don't raw feed fish at all, as my two tend to eat it, then puke it back up again, and then eat it, maybe keep it down, maybe not, and you can imagine how smelly that gets! But I'd only suggest fish like that for a dog that's used to raw and their digestive system can cope with it. Other than that, tinned fish would be much better imo.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Mine are fed dry but get the odd wholemackerel and have been fine. It's gutted but they get the rest head and all. 

Presumably it's ok to freeze? If so why not cut into smaller portions for the first few times to see how he gets on


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Personally, I wouldn't give raw fish to a dog new to raw, and particularly not something like mackerel, as the bones are quite hard and sharp.
> 
> I don't raw feed fish at all, as my two tend to eat it, then puke it back up again, and then eat it, maybe keep it down, maybe not, and you can imagine how smelly that gets! But I'd only suggest fish like that for a dog that's used to raw and their digestive system can cope with it. Other than that, tinned fish would be much better imo.


Ok, thanks for the post! . To be honest as I'm such a worrier, I may just give the fresh raw mackerel a miss and get him some tinned fish instead..do you have any recommendations as to which tinned fish is best?  

Also as Tia is used to some raw (we occassionly replace her meal with tripe and Sometimes chicken breasts and things like that) would she be okay to eat the mackerel? Other wise it'll only go in the bin.. So worth a try, or not?

Thanks, your posts are always really helpful.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I agree with not giving whole mackeral to a dog not used to raw. Our's do not find whole raw fish a problem at all, but they are used to it.

Not sure if the fish would otherwise go to waste how "blending" it would be. How small/sharp would the bones be then ?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Fillet it, add some chilli, lime and olive oil, bake it in the oven for 30 minutes and eat it yourself with some new potatoes and veggies. Yummy!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I like Goblin's suggestion, but I prefer Sacremists :lol:

I give tinned pilchards and sardines, in anything really except brine.


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## Kazastan (Sep 2, 2011)

I do feed raw mackerel but not as a meal on its own, not all dogs will like it, some of mine do some dont so I generally cut into into 4 and feed it with another food such as tripe I feed the who lot headsn' all. Some dogs will leave the liver. Lol some will go n' bury the heads for later in the sofa if I am not watching!

I also feed tinned fish such as sardines and pilchards in brine


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## Kazastan (Sep 2, 2011)

You may find it easier to feed a tinned fish such as sardines or pilchards

All mine are fed fresh mackerel but not as a meal but as an occasional addition to a meal, not all of them are keen on it, my cairn loves the heads the Rotts aren't so keen, for the ones that wont eat it as part of a meal I catch them by surprise and chuck it to them as treat and its swallowed in a nano second!



Sleeping_Lion said:


> I give tinned pilchards and sardines, in anything really except brine.


Why not brine Sleeping Lion?


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

Kazastan said:


> some of mine do some dont so I generally cut into into 4 and feed it with another food such as tripe I feed the who lot headsn' all.


Do you normally 'gutt' it? 
Or just literally cut it and see if they will eat it?


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

portiaa said:


> Ok, thanks for the post! . To be honest as I'm such a worrier, I may just give the fresh raw mackerel a miss and get him some tinned fish instead..do you have any recommendations as to which tinned fish is best?
> 
> Also as Tia is used to some raw (we occassionly replace her meal with tripe and Sometimes chicken breasts and things like that) would she be okay to eat the mackerel? Other wise it'll only go in the bin.. So worth a try, or not?
> 
> Thanks, your posts are always really helpful.


My pup loves raw food but he will not touch raw fish and I agree a mackerel is too boney for your pug but don't waste it - simmer it and take the meat off and offer it cooked. I usually give my boy tinned sardine or pilchards he loves them!


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

For any of you who are wondering..

I gutted the fish, took off head and took out all bones (which took ages..) and cut it into very small pieces for Enzo and put it in his bowl with a bit of natural yoghurt (which he normal has anyway). Then I took him to his crate and put his bowl down and supervised him the whole time and he was absolutely fine, he loved the stuff! And even wanted more..(as usual ) 

He seemed to enjoy it and hopefully all will be fine, I'll go back to kibble, yoghurt and carrot meals for the rest of the week probably. And if all seems to be fine and he doesn't have a bad tummy or anything then we'll substitute another of his meals for some mackerel (or other fish, any recommendations?) 



This got me thinking.. 
Since My dogs have all had some tripe on the odd occassion, sometimes raw chicken breasts and things.. And now Enzo has for the first time tried mackerel. 

Could I possibly substitute one meal a week/maybe two for each dog and change it to raw food, or is it best to have either kibble or raw on a full time basis? 
 
Thanks


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

my pup has one raw meal a day and the rest is kibble and he is looking fantastic.


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

912142 said:


> my pup has one raw meal a day and the rest is kibble and he is looking fantastic.


Thanks, this is defiantly something I'm going to think about.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Tummel has 2 mackeral as a meal every week or so, he has quite dry skin and not only does this help he absolutely loves it(he is much bigger than enzo though  )

I quite often give Tummel 1 kibble meal and 1 raw meal in a day, i'm not ok with getting the balances needed for BARF so i do this instead, it's a treat for Tummel and me(i love watching him eat it). I'd eventually like to be able to have him on one meal of each daily but until we move out and have space/money it will just be a treat(we try for at least 1 raw meal a week, Tummels so far had chicken, rabbit, mackeral, herring and red deer venison and a small amount of beef with no ill effects).


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

Personally when a dog is ready to try fish, i just it them whole in one piece and RAW of course regardless of the weight and just feed less the next day to make up the weights.

Edit: i never gut the fish if it hasn't already been, i leave the head on aswell as that seems to be the favourite part!


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

pogo said:


> Personally when a dog is ready to try fish, i just it them whole in one piece and RAW of course regardless of the weight and just feed less the next day to make up the weights.
> 
> Edit: i never gut the fish if it hasn't already been, i leave the head on aswell as that seems to be the favourite part!


Thanks for posting!  ok, next time I'll try him with the head too. The fish counter in the shop we usually buy it from, normally has all the fish already gutted, but I may ask next time if he could leave one whole for me. 

I'm going to try the other dogs on some mackerel each next time too, hopefully.


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

ballybee said:


> Tummel has 2 mackeral as a meal every week or so, he has quite dry skin and not only does this help he absolutely loves it(he is much bigger than enzo though  )
> 
> I quite often give Tummel 1 kibble meal and 1 raw meal in a day, i'm not ok with getting the balances needed for BARF so i do this instead, it's a treat for Tummel and me(i love watching him eat it). I'd eventually like to be able to have him on one meal of each daily but until we move out and have space/money it will just be a treat(we try for at least 1 raw meal a week, Tummels so far had chicken, rabbit, mackeral, herring and red deer venison and a small amount of beef with no ill effects).


Thanks for posting!  it's defiantly something to think about, although I may introduce each dog to raw fish one at a time. Providing Enzo doesn't have an upset stomach later on, then next week I'll probably try Bella on it too. 

Although I may have to have a variety of different raw meat/fish because buying 4 mackerels twice a week is going to cost about £16 a week just for my dogs to have it twice a week-which I think works out quite expensive in the long run compared to some other meat/fish the dogs may like.

I'm the same, I've considered quite a few times converting to raw but I worry I'd never be able to get the meatffal:bone ratio right and not be giving them what they need.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

portiaa said:


> Thanks for posting!  it's defiantly something to think about, although I may introduce each dog to raw fish one at a time. Providing Enzo doesn't have an upset stomach later on, then next week I'll probably try Bella on it too.
> 
> Although I may have to have a variety of different raw meat/fish because buying 4 mackerels twice a week is going to cost about £16 a week just for my dogs to have it twice a week-which I think works out quite expensive in the long run compared to some other meat/fish the dogs may like.
> 
> I'm the same, I've considered quite a few times converting to raw but I worry I'd never be able to get the meatffal:bone ratio right and not be giving them what they need.


You could do something like mackeral once a week and then something different like a chicken carcass(or wings for Enzo)/legs or rabbits(if you can find a gamekeeper or game dealer near you you can get them for a good price  ) and move onto the other meats later :smile5: We actually went out and caught our own mackeral(got 6 in one day) and when we realised Tummel was going wild with the smell decided they were his  So if you were into fishing(or knew someone who was) then you can get a bargain 

Other fish can be things like herring, trout(Tummel loves the smell, we've not given him any yet), Tuna, salmon, sardines(pretty cheap i think), pilchards, pollock, coalies(probably have to go and catch them yourself as they don't make a good eating fish for humans) etc..most fish will be fine and some are very cheap as they're not very popular


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

Mine were pups when they started on raw fish, I used a cleaver to mince the fish (after removing and discarding the dorsal fin spike), now they eat the fish whole (again I cut off the dorsal fin spike) - just like a seal would. 

How's the weight going ?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

portiaa said:


> I'm the same, I've considered quite a few times converting to raw but I worry I'd never be able to get the meatffal:bone ratio right and not be giving them what they need.


Not really wanting to derail the thread but this is a common fear and one which is soon dispelled once on raw and by doing research. Hardest is bone/meat ratio but generally it's a case of poop watching. There's a reason a lot of raw feeders talk about poop a lot


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

portiaa said:


> Thanks for posting!  ok, next time I'll try him with the head too. The fish counter in the shop we usually buy it from, normally has all the fish already gutted, but I may ask next time if he could leave one whole for me.
> 
> I'm going to try the other dogs on some mackerel each next time too, hopefully.


 no problem, like i said the head seems to be the favourite of Harvey! well i normally get mine from tesco so some come gutted others don't either way i just it as it is!


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

Manoy Moneelil said:


> Mine were pups when they started on raw fish, I used a cleaver to mince the fish (after removing and discarding the dorsal fin spike), now they eat the fish whole (again I cut off the dorsal fin spike) - just like a seal would.
> 
> How's the weight going ?


Thanks for asking! 

Well, the food amounts have come right down and I'm trying to spread it over three meals a day (introduced this on Friday) and were getting there!

Exercise is going up to, but only 5 minutes extra every week because I don't want to push him too much. And on the weekends we've switched to two or three short walks rather than one long walk, we're also going to try and make it a weekly thing/twice weekly that he has raw fish or meat. (we are staying with mackerel at the moment, because I know Enzo likes that.) just as a treat and also the mackerels good for him, so that's a bonus. 


The only problem Is I still haven't been able to weigh him  I don't drive and live in a small country village with no shops, so the vets/pet shop is not walking distance. So I need to get someone to take me, because a few people who can help with transport don't allow pets in cars which is fair enough.

But if I can't get a lift in with Enzo by Wednesday, I'll see if we can take the bus. (if dogs are aloud?  )

Thanks again for asking, and for all the help you've given me!


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

portiaa said:


> The only problem Is I still haven't been able to weigh him  I don't drive and live in a small country village with no shops, so the vets/pet shop is not walking distance. So I need to get someone to take me, because a few people who can help with transport don't allow pets in cars which is fair enough.
> 
> But if I can't get a lift in with Enzo by Wednesday, I'll see if we can take the bus. (if dogs are aloud?  )


Do you or a friend/neighbour have bathroom scales? If so, pick Enzo up and weigh yourself holding him. Then weigh yourself alone. Subtract your weight from original weight to give Enzo's weight. I do this with Poppy about once a month to check I'm keeping her weight fairly stable.

Dogs are allowed on our buses so hopefully yours will. It helps to have a small dog that you can have sitting on your lap .


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

DirtyGertie said:


> Do you or a friend/neighbour have bathroom scales? If so, pick Enzo up and weigh yourself holding him. Then weigh yourself alone. Subtract your weight from original weight to give Enzo's weight. I do this with Poppy about once a month to check I'm keeping her weight fairly stable.
> 
> Dogs are allowed on our buses so hopefully yours will. It helps to have a small dog that you can have sitting on your lap .


Thank you so much, I didn't even think of that. 

Will make sure that's all done today


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

Sounds like you have put in place a well considered plan, the scales trick is a good one we used to do too. I wouldn't worry about charting the weight loss too exactly, it will take time to come off and the accuracy of the scales after the calculation of your body weight vs you plus dog becomes less accurate as the dog looses weight (it is more accurate for heavier dogs).

You could use a tape measure, but knowing that you are doing the right stuff over time will have the right outcome. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

DirtyGertie said:


> Do you or a friend/neighbour have bathroom scales? If so, pick Enzo up and weigh yourself holding him. Then weigh yourself alone. Subtract your weight from original weight to give Enzo's weight. I do this with Poppy about once a month to check I'm keeping her weight fairly stable.
> 
> Dogs are allowed on our buses so hopefully yours will. It helps to have a small dog that you can have sitting on your lap .


Yeah we do that too.

We all had a weigh in today. Dogs were fine it was just us humans that were the fatties


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Kazastan said:


> Why not brine?


It's salt water, and too much salt is bad for dogs (as it is for humans as well)


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## Kazastan (Sep 2, 2011)

bearcub said:


> It's salt water, and too much salt is bad for dogs (as it is for humans as well)


I disagree

To find the salt content of processed foods and treat you times the sodium by 2.5

for example 2.000mg [2g] of sodium x 2.5 = 5.000 [5g] of salt

So, a 100g tin of Tescos sardines in brine with 4mg of sodium = 10mg [*a hundredth of a gram*] and would be considered low salt, compare to sodium in raw food below.

however when you look at some other 'human fods people feed to their dogs you may be surprised [hotdogs are really high in salt]

Safeway 'no salt added' Cottage Cheese is 50mg but those with salt can be as high as 1000 mg

The USDA food composition table lists a medium sized carrot as a low salt vegetable containing 42mg of sodium = 105mg of salt _much more than a tin of sardines in brine_

An example of high salt is 3oz of ham with a sodium content of 1000mg = 2.500mg of salt

Some examples of sodium in raw food are:- 
Beef liver 1oz = 20mg of sodium 
Beef Heart = 11mg of sodium 
Rabbit 100g = 49mg of sodium 
Chicken wings 3oz = 77mg of sodium 
Lamb 100g = 33mg of sodium[/i]


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## Kazastan (Sep 2, 2011)

portiaa said:


> Thanks for posting!  it's defiantly something to think about, although I may introduce each dog to raw fish one at a time. Providing Enzo doesn't have an upset stomach later on, then next week I'll probably try Bella on it too.
> 
> Although I may have to have a variety of different raw meat/fish because buying 4 mackerels twice a week is going to cost about £16 a week just for my dogs to have it twice a week-which I think works out quite expensive in the long run compared to some other meat/fish the dogs may like.
> 
> I'm the same, I've considered quite a few times converting to raw but I worry I'd never be able to get the meatffal:bone ratio right and not be giving them what they need.


Bit of info for you on fish, if you introduce fish to the raw diet you do not want to feed one species regularly/exclusively see Thiaminase at the bottom.

Fish is a useful source of animal protein. The oily fish such as sardines and salmon contain the vitamins A & D in their flesh, whereas in white fish such as cod vitamins A& D are only present in the fish's liver, The bones of fish such as sardines, whitebait and tinned salmon provide calcium and phosphorus.

The protein in the fish is a good body building food and the oily fish are especially useful for energy and as a protective food. Fish contains 9 of the essential amino acids, the only essential amino acid not found istryptophan the amino acid associated with sleep. Non essential amino acids are also found in fish.

Per 100gms Fish contains 17.4 protein & 105 calories

The minerals found in fish include phosphorus, magnesium, iodine, calcium and potassium whilst trace minerals of iron zinc and selenium can also be found.

The oil and fat amounts vary from species to species, these oils are unsaturated and some are polyunsaturated so it is a good idea if feeding fish to ensure a dependable source of vitamin E is included in the diet, a couple of free range eggs a week is ideal.

Halibut and flat fish such as Flounder and Sole are a good source of magnesium which may have been depleted when gastric issues arise from medication

Oily fish can be especially useful when a little extra energy is needed. Its something I sometimes use myself in the week leading up to a show day, having a working breed which is often required to do more running. The exact fish I use I will keep to myself!

Sardines [with bone] with provide approximately 50% protein and 50% fat with the added benefits of selenium niacin calcium phosphorus and cobalamin

Fish oil will increase muscle mass albeit only slightly whereas plant/seed oils increases body fat and decreases muscle mass.

Cod is a useful fish if low fat and low calories are needed [vitamins A& D are in the liver oil] its nutritional values per 100g are approximately 15.6 protein, 0.4g fat, 42mg calcium, 0.6 iron, 100.0iu vitamin A 37mg EPA and 72mg DHA

*Some fish contain an enzyme called Thiaminase with can destroy Thiamin* [vit B1] if the diet is sufficient in Thiamin thiaminase containing fish such as mackerel can be feed sparingly.

Fish that DO NOT contain Thiaminase include

Cod - Halibut - Salmon - Trout - Sole - Plaice - Skate - Bass - Haddock - Sardines

Fish that DO contain Thiaminase include

Mackerel - Tuna - Herring - Carp - White Bass - Goldfish


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## WarFlyball (Aug 15, 2008)

I found a fishmonger in town that will save me a bag of bits for the dogs - got a huge bag today for 20p, huge heads and lots of other stuff for them to enjoy


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Lots of Mals I know eat raw fish but mine are dead scared of them for some reason. I have tried with mackerel and they just circle it, staring at it but none of them have ever touched it, seems they simply don't know what it is and are a bit daunted by it - big fairy's, lol! 

I even tried throwing it for them to catch and as soon as they caught it they spat it out, so funny but no way will any of them eat raw fish!


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## WarFlyball (Aug 15, 2008)

Maybe it's those glassy eyes staring back


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