# Raw? No thanks.



## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Have been feeding my 3 dogs raw green tripe and chicken necks for the past 3 and 2 weeks respectively. Last week they also had one small meal of raw Sprats so when I was at Morrisons today I bought them some more Sprats to give as their evening meal as they had chicken necks at around 11 am this morning. Well they ate the fish at around 8:30pm and ever since then they have all been throwing stinking partly digested fish all over the carpets, their bedding etc. It is now 3 hours later and I am dreading what mess I will find when I go to get them out of the kitchen tomorrow morning. One of them still had chicken neck bones in his vomit 
Last week I placed an order (to be delivered next Tuesday) for £50+ worth of raw tripe, chicken necks and minced lamb (meat, offal and bones). The lamb was to be the third new protein source I was going to introduce on week 4 of raw feeding.
Their dried food is fish based (fishmongers) so I thought the sprats would have been fine.
I wish I hadn't placed the raw order now and would gladly give up on the idea of raw
Any advice on what I am doing wrong?
My 2 year old Flatcoat is very thin and I thought raw feeding would really help him. The last thing he needs is to be throwing up.
My OH says I should take him to the vet for a complete health check because he is so bony (you can see his ribs, feel his hip bones and every one on his vertebrae). I am worried the vet will just fob me off by recommending one of his overpriced Hills foods whereas I know he can only tolerate a few dried grain free foods.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't feed mine sprats as a meal tbh, they tend to chuck them up, so I mince them in with offal.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

So you bought the sprats fresh yesterday and fed them yesterday?
A lot of fish needs to be frozen for 24 hours before defrosting and feeding. Many will then cook it also (fish bones softness not affected by cooking) 

When I buy my dogs sprats I always freeze then defrost, then pop them in the dehydrator (last longer too). 

I think for the minute seeing as you are new starting out to raw, so as not to overwhelm your dogs with too many new food types, I would stick to certain meats (and their offal, bone) and stick with them for a while, then slowly begin adding variety. 

Chicken and/or lamb would be good if they have got on with it well so far. 

Then start slowly adding new meat types. 
Tinned sardines to restart with fish etc might be a good option once they have recovered from sickness and are feeling better. 
Later once their tums have settled, rabbit is another one to consider as seems to be quite easy on the tum with mine??

Are they fed full raw or still get fishmongers as well?
Do make sure you give the vet a call if they do not bounce back quickly (i.e by tomorrow) from not getting on with the fish.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Fish is one of those things to introduce slowly. Whilst some dogs can cope fine others can't and it's a bit of trial and error. One of our dogs can't cope with fish well although fine with sardines in tomato sauce. It's not normally a case of vomit though but the other end produce  Normally though we do mix fish in with something else. Transitioning several dogs is harder than transitioning one as each can be different and adjust to raw at different rates. We always went at the pace of the slowest one.

I can understand concern about the chicken bone in the vomit. It's not uncommon when starting raw feeding for bone to take time to be digested and occasionally to be vomited back up. Can't prove this scientifically but I get the impression that if bone sits in the stomach too long it will come back up. That's my experience only though and my personal conclusion. With us, as time went on vomiting ceased and by time it was only once or twice. I do remember the first time Emma threw up bone and probably my thoughts were initially probably the same as yours. What shocked me when looking closely at it (yeah I know disgusting) was that the bone was rounded and partially digested. It gave me a bit of confidence to continue. Again I've heard but can't pin scientific studies down that the acidic value of the stomach changes when raw feeding. This would explain why to start with it's not digested readily and after a while it is. I can't remember the last time I saw partially digested bone.

As for a dog being thin it's a difficult one. I probably would look at getting the dog checked by the vet as there may be an underlying condition causing it. Saying that our vets know we feed raw and accept it even if they aren't thrilled about it.

Always bear in mind raw isn't for everyone. I'm convinced of it's value and will not change unless there is no other option. At the same time don't feel pressured into doing it. Will ask though if you've noticed any changes in your dogs in the 2-3 weeks. However if you don't think it suits you or your dogs don't do it.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Bailey can't do raw fish. It comes back up within an hour without fail. He won't even eat it now. 

It's the same as if a wet food didn't agree with them. Don't let it put you off raw entirely. Just learn from the mistake. And don't give them sprats again.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Have been feeding my 3 dogs raw green tripe and chicken necks for the past 3 and 2 weeks respectively. Last week they also had one small meal of raw Sprats so when I was at Morrisons today I bought them some more Sprats to give as their evening meal as they had chicken necks at around 11 am this morning. Well they ate the fish at around 8:30pm and ever since then they have all been throwing stinking partly digested fish all over the carpets, their bedding etc. It is now 3 hours later and I am dreading what mess I will find when I go to get them out of the kitchen tomorrow morning. One of them still had chicken neck bones in his vomit
> Last week I placed an order (to be delivered next Tuesday) for £50+ worth of raw tripe, chicken necks and minced lamb (meat, offal and bones). The lamb was to be the third new protein source I was going to introduce on week 4 of raw feeding.
> Their dried food is fish based (fishmongers) so I thought the sprats would have been fine.
> I wish I hadn't placed the raw order now and would gladly give up on the idea of raw
> ...


I really would not worry too much.

I warn EVERYONE that when feeding raw fish for the first time

1 Some dogs will never eat it
2 Some dogs will eat it and then reacquaint themselves with it
3 Usually if they do it will either be in the car or in your living room

etc etc

Fish is one of the LAST foods I introduce and then I usually see if they do well on tinned sardines first.

It is not because there is something wrong with the fish, or it is tainted etc and I certainly do not bother with freezing it first.

TBH if raw fish does not agree with your dog just do not feed it, or feed tinned if they tolerate it.

As for upchucking bones, that is normal.

Raw feeding is not for every dog or for every owner and it is not the "Holy Grail" that some food fascists would like you to believe.


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## Debbierobb109 (Mar 23, 2013)

i bought my two sprats and they took it and spat it out then looked at me like id offered them poop hahha
i just dont bother giving them fish now


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2013)

Lucky for me my dog will eat just about anything she isn't fussy.

Fish is her favourite food but she has it in small portions added to a base.

Don't be put off by one bad experience it sounds like your still new to this and adjusting your dogs to other types of food.

Be prepaired for set backs don't do time frames thats the first road to failiur it takes as long as it takes. Introduce other foods in smaller portions to chicken or chicken necks slowly and you should not have any problems.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Both my dogs have thrown raw meals back up on the odd occasion. It has always been when they have eaten too fast though and swallowed stuff in great big lumps. (Look away now if you are squeamish) They always just give themselves a couple of minutes then eat it again and have always kept it down second time around. Sometimes it has been quite a while after feeding so is pretty unpleasant for us but they seem more than happy about it. This regurgitation seems different to when a dog is properly sick, I can't explain what it is but the way they do it looks different to when they are sick because they are ill.
Personally I don't feed raw fish (except a few whitebait as a training treat sometimes, never as a meal). Mine get canned sardines or pilchards or poached fresh salmon and as others have said this is with something else usually tripe.
If you really want to feed raw then persevere but slowly if you think your dogs are a bit more sensitive than some. If it isn't for you then feed what you are happy with. I would struggle to believe that any dog couldn't eventually adapt to a raw diet but some may take longer than others and may never like certain things or be intolerant to others but there should be something that suits them. As we know, humans get gippy tummies from a change in diet or even a change in water so it shouldn't be a big problem if your dogs do the same, just give them time to adapt.


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## wee man (Apr 8, 2012)

Don't give up on the raw meat and tripe !!

I have fed raw for a long time, my dogs love cooked fish and the frozen raw white economy fish from our supermarkets, but offer them a whole fresh raw fish !!!!!----!!!! NO THANKS! sick everywhere cor what a stinking mess! they won't even try them anymore and neither will I ever offer them again !

But please do continue with the raw meat and tripe.


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## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

Dora puked a whole sprat up in my hand. and both were sick for a few days after eating them. They are now not on the menu  
Keep going my otis looks like skelator but is coming along nicely. We are on week 4 now


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I dont feed raw but Heidi is fine on fish kibble.
Fresh or tinned fish upset her and she wont eat fish wet food.

Why not pop the dog you're concerned about back onto Fishmonger and see if it makes a difference.

As mentioned, raw isnt for everyone or every dog. Hope they are soon better and this morning wasnt as bad as you thought clearing up wise


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Dougie will eat tinned fish and I also use Orijen which is fish based - he won't eat raw fish though he barks at it and backs away


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I only have one out of 6 that can eat raw fish 
5 That enjoy tinned fish
and one that eats no fish products at all, even a fish/tripe mince mix


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Mine don't get fish as of yet, but I think I'll mix it like some others suggest above. 

We went through a stage a couple of weeks into raw feeding where I thought these dogs look awful they look thinner than before, neither of them seem to be benefiting from this I was doubting myself, my husband was doubting me too and suggested we quit and go back to kibble, we had an incident where they both swallowed a bone a bit too big and I was in sheer panic and I didn't think I could deal with it anymore. 

I was told to just keep going and I'm pleased I did because they both look fantastic now. Our Cavalier King Charles has put on about half a KG in weight , our husky isn't bloated and farty anymore he looks lean and healthy instead of like a pot bellied pig and I'm starting to feel a bit more confident with it all 

It's awful when they have a choking or a throwing up session I know how you feel. We had a throwing up session Thursday night, but that's because my Father in Law gave the husky a digestive :nono:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I think it's really rude to make a thread
Lots of people take the time to make long detailed helpful replies and the only one you bother to like is the one that agreed with what you had already decided.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the replies and advice. Went to bed at around 12 and was woken at 5am by the dogs. Went downstairs to find masses more of fishy vomit and one did another pile in the garden which the two Flatcoats seemed intent on re-eating Funny the Golden didn't seem that fussed on eating the fish in the first place but I guess as he was hungry it was that or nothing . At 8 am there were two more vomit pools and the whole of the downstairs stank. It is one of those smells you really can't get out of your nostrils. Anyway I am now washing all the bedding.
As I have a raw order due I will carry on and see how it goes over the next few weeks but will definitely not be feeding any more raw fish! I guess I will just have to go more easily with the thin 2 year old Flatcoat and may just stick to tripe and chicken with minced lamb. Tinned pilchard/sardines don't agree with him (loose stools rather than copious vomit). It is hard giving two of your dogs foods you know to be good for them (eggs, tinned fish etc) and knowing that the 3rd skinny guy who could really do with it can't have it
Lots of things disagree with him - yesterday morning it was blackberries which he ate when I was picking. The other dogs ate blackberries to and it didn't affect them negatively but lo and behold I spent yesterday afternoon cleaning up lots of black tar like blackberry poo from Mr Skinny 
I think I have learned to ask on PF before trying any new foods!!
Thanks again for the help!


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

babycham2002 said:


> I think it's really rude to make a thread
> Lots of people take the time to make long detailed helpful replies and the only one you bother to like is the one that agreed with what you had already decided.


Are you for real? Do you really get off on how many likes you have received? I tend to thank people as a whole in general who have taken the time to reply to me. Please Babycham2002 accept my humblest and sincere gratitude for replying to my thread. Really didn't realise just how petty and small minded some people can be. As they say GET A LIFE!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

It was unfortunate to feed a whole meal of a new protein. Have you read the raw feeding threads? Introduce everything super slowly. Sprats are very oily. I would not use them as a whole meal. I give a max of three at a time with other proteins. Learnt my lesson when I gave massive fish heads and had the same issue. 

Up the amount (of already established) you're giving the skinny flattie ignoring any percentages you have worked put. Some dogs vary in needs, yours sounds like he needs a much larger amount so feed by eye until he puts on weight. Duck and lamb are more calorific than other meats IME.

Babycham is an experienced raw feeder, she could be helpful, bit silly to alienate people who could help you. You have no idea what she's like, petty and small minded are not characteristics I would assign to her.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

My two have never have problems eating whole bowls of sprats or any fish, but they have stomachs of steel and never had a problem with any food, but alot of dogs can't handle raw fish, or not large amounts of.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Mine love whole rainbow trout or sea bass, asda don't sell sprats so they've never had them and Flynn won't eat a mackerel for some reason. 

Just because raw is good for them it doesn't mean ALL raw is tolerated, its trial and error and you learn as you go along. Flynn can't tolerate beef at all, keeps him up all night panting and pacing and has the most foul breath, so I figured he doesn't digest beef well and he never has it now. Marty is the same with lamb, to a degree Flynns not good with lamb either but worse with beef. Mines staple diet consist of chicken, pork, tripe and fish with occasional rabbit because none are too keen on rabbit but it doesn't upset their tums. In fact in order to get them to eat rabbit (when I've ordered it and they turn their noses up) I put tomato ketchup in it, they eat it then. 

I couldn't get to the butchers last week and I reluctantly bought a bag of Vets Kitchen kibble for a couple of days, don't know much about kibble but what I do know is they s*at like donkeys and their poo was foul. Goodness knows what it does to their stomachs. Never again!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Malmum has hit the nail on the head
Regardless of what you feed - wet, kibble or raw. Some things will suit your dog, some wont. Whereas as other dogs will be absolutely fine on it.

Vets Kitchen isnt the greatest kibble but doesnt mean all kibble would have the same effect. Grain free, 80/20 or simply a different brand could have had a completely different outcome.
Unfortunately as a one off, it's difficult to get it right first time.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have finally got round to "digesting" them(unlike the dogs and the sprats ) Sorry if people thought I was ignoring their replies but after Friday and Saturday's PUKATHON I have been busy steam cleaning, Febreezing and Shake & Vaccing the stinking carpets! I was quickly dipping into the replies before but being a Sunday evening I have now had time to go through them .
Regarding the curt comments I received from Babycham 2002: at no time was I ignoring replies intentionally as I am always grateful that people spend the time to share their knowledge. However I do think that maybe some posters need to realise that we do not all sit at PF 24 hours per day and that we have other lives and commitments too.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

cbrookman said:


> after Friday and Saturday's PUKATHON I have been busy steam cleaning, Febreezing and Shake & Vaccing the stinking carpets! .


Sounds like my ideal weekend, not! haha

Like everyone said just trial and error, I tried mine on pork yesterday and they instantly ran into the yard and chucked it back up, they'd had pork before and it had given them the runs so I thought this time mix it in with a little bit of beef and see if it makes a difference but apparently not! 

We're back on chicken for the rest of the week till my new order comes on Thursday lol


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

PMSL at Malmum, tomato ketchup on raw bunny?! Must look like a horror film!!


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> PMSL at Malmum, tomato ketchup on raw bunny?! Must look like a horror film!!


Weirdly enough my Mam's Labrador LOVES tomato , including tomato ketchup! If she is being fussy my Mam either puts peas / tinned tomatoes or tomato sauce on her dinner.

She also LOVES sardines in tomato sauce , weird thing!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Just remembered the nursery rhyme and thought it v appropriate (now that you've come up for air:thumbup

Jack Sprat could eat no fat,
His wife could eat no lean ..................

Sums up what a lot have mentioned with a "Sprat" for good measure :thumbup:


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Morrisons do sprats. 

My lot love the sardines in tomato sauce and Bear likes tomatoes raw. Weirdo!


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