# Trocoxil



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

My vet keeps mentioning this as the future drug for Alfies arthritis.
Is it just me or doesn't a drug that stays in the body for a month or more worry any of you?
Doesn't it cut down on possible treatments if something else crops up?


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

rona said:


> My vet keeps mentioning this as the future drug for Alfies arthritis.
> Is it just me or doesn't a drug that stays in the body for a month or more worry any of you?
> Doesn't it cut down on possible treatments if something else crops up?


I know a couple of oldies on this drug. They seem to be doing quite well.

I also don't like the idea or a drug that stays n the body for such long periods, and if I am not mistaken I think it can contribute to the formation of stomach ulcers... never given any thought to what would happen if treatment for a new condition was necessary - that is a good point.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Banjo's back vet does'nt like it because some other drugs cant be used with it, so say god forbid  Banjo developed Epilepsy they would'nt be able to give the drugs for that with Trocoxil in the system. 

Newfiesmum is sure Trocoxil was the cause of Joshua death to 

Are Alfi's injections not working as well any more?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dally Banjo said:


> Banjo's back vet does'nt like it because some other drugs cant be used with it, so say god forbid  Banjo developed Epilepsy they would'nt be able to give the drugs for that with Trocoxil in the system.
> 
> Newfiesmum is sure Trocoxil was the cause of Joshua death to
> 
> Are Alfi's injections not working as well any more?


Yes they are working fine at the moment, I just have chats to the vet when I go in, don't want to waste the opportunity. If I'm paying I like to get my monies worth  Hell, Alfie doesn't give her any problems 

This is what bothers me and why I need to talk it through with you lot and then my vet next time I'm there. It's been a bother in the back of my head since she mentioned it a few months back.
She said that Alfie couldn't have his Cartrophen with it  
Now if he was on Metacam it would mean stopping it for a week but he could still have his Cartrophen.

I'm going to have to do battle with her again like I did when she told me not to walk him far


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

There are several things that worried me, this is from a leaflet a neighbour gave me and asked what I thought.

Special Warnings:- 
Should not be used in De-Hydrated Dogs.
If your dog needs Surgery inform the surgeon that the dog is using Trocoxil
Do Not adminster other NSAIDs or Glucocorticoids concurrently or within at least 1 month of the last administration of Trocoxil.
Trocoxil has an extended effect duration (up to 2mths after administration of the 2nd dose and following doses) Adverse reactions could occur at any timepoint during this period.
If an adverse reaction to the administration of Trocoxil occurs, stop using the product,and seek medical advice from your veterinarian immediately (Im thinking too Blinkin late if once they have had two doses its in the system for 2mths, and adverse reations can occur any time)

Adverse reactions.
Typical Adverse reactions of NSAIDs such as loss of appetite, diarrhoea, vomitting, apathy, change in Kidney Biochemistry parameters and impared kidney function have occasionally been reported. In rare cases these my be fatal. If these reaction occur stop using the product and contact your vet.
Note that Trocoxil has an extended effect od duration (up to 2mths after administration of the 2nd and following doses) Adverse reactions can occur at any timepoint during this period.

Contraindications.
Do not use in dogs less then 12mths of age or less than 5Kg body weight
Do not use in dogs suffering from gastro intestinal disorder including ulceration and bleeding
Do not use where there is evidence of a heamorrhagic disorder.
Do not use in cases or impaired Kidney or lIver function
Do not use in cases of heart insufficiency
Do not use in pregnant breeding or lactating animals
Do not use in tcase of hypersensitivity to the active substance or to any of the excipients.
Do not use in cases of know hypersensitivity to sulphonomides
Do not use concomitantly with glucocorticoids or other NSAIDs


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> There are several things that worried me, this is from a leaflet a neighbour gave me and asked what I thought.
> 
> Special Warnings:-
> Should not be used in De-Hydrated Dogs.
> ...


Thats alot :w00t:

Strange thing is the Gabapentin Banjo is on is used for human Epilepsy I think thats why he had to be weaned off it, not that we got very far 

I think is deffinately worth asking on here about drugs some vets seem to know more than others. I just ask pins vet now while Banjo has that zonked look on his face as it takes effect


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> There are several things that worried me, this is from a leaflet a neighbour gave me and asked what I thought.
> 
> Special Warnings:-
> Should not be used in De-Hydrated Dogs.
> ...


Yeah I've read a lot of that, by rights it shouldn't be used in old dogs!!!!
How many old dogs do not have heart insufficiency or impaired kidney or liver function? 

I don't like it and I'm not using it on my dog.

That's it, mind made up 

Thanks all


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Thats alot :w00t:
> 
> Strange thing is the Gabapentin Banjo is on is used for human Epilepsy I think thats why he had to be weaned off it, not that we got very far
> 
> I think is deffinately worth asking on here about drugs some vets seem to know more than others. I just ask pins vet now while Banjo has that zonked look on his face as it takes effect


Now you come to mention it Im sure Gabapentin Ive seen mentioned on the Canine Epilepsy site when I was researching into seizures when Nuke started having them Ill check to ee what it says.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

It's the same as any other NSAID. You wouldn't add another painkiller on top of Rimadyl or Metacam. It has the same gastric impact, but much less because you give less. Yes, it's in the system longer but the only thing my vet mentioned was possibly an annual blood test to ensure there are no hidden issues.

Brig has been on it for a couple of years, although I fear it's no longer stopping the arthritic pain as he's limping quite noticeably, but I think that's because the condition is worsening as he ages.

The are risks in any medication: the best person to talk to is the vet. Raise your concerns and only you can decide once you've researched the pros and cons. Dependent on the dog's age, the balance may be in favour of this drug. I think its been a good tool for us, but it's not necessarily for everyone.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Now you come to mention it Im sure Gabapentin Ive seen mentioned on the Canine Epilepsy site when I was researching into seizures when Nuke started having them Ill check to ee what it says.


:w00t: Nowt bad I hope.

Im with you Rona, unless it was the very, very last thing on the shelf it can stay there


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Thats alot :w00t:
> 
> Strange thing is the Gabapentin Banjo is on is used for human Epilepsy I think thats why he had to be weaned off it, not that we got very far
> 
> I think is deffinately worth asking on here about drugs some vets seem to know more than others. I just ask pins vet now while Banjo has that zonked look on his face as it takes effect


Knew I had seen it this is all it says though on the site
GABAPENTIN

Gabapentin (Trade name - Neurontin) was approved for use in the United States in 1994, and has been used with some success in adult human patients suffering from focal seizures. It is most often used as a secondary (or add-on) drug to help treat seizures resistant to Phenobarbital and Potassium Bromide. A major advantage to this drug in humans is that is not metabolized by the liver, so it avoids the hepatotoxic (liver injuring) effects of other anticonvulsants. In dogs, gabapentin is metabolized partially by the liver and no one is completely sure of the anticonvulsant effects of this metabolite. It is believed that Gabapentin is beneficial in dogs with focal seizures refractory (resistant) to other drugs.

Dosage:

A recommended starting dose is 100 to 300 mg per dog given every 8 hours. The dose is then adjusted every one to two weeks until seizures are controlled or a maximum dose of 1200 mg every 8 hours is reached.

Side effects:

Gabapentin is not sedating and side effects appear to be uncommon. The biggest disadvantages to gabapentin are that it is extremely expensive and requires dosing every 8 hours.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Knew I had seen it this is all it says though on the site
> GABAPENTIN
> 
> Gabapentin (Trade name - Neurontin) was approved for use in the United States in 1994, and has been used with some success in adult human patients suffering from focal seizures. It is most often used as a secondary (or add-on) drug to help treat seizures resistant to Phenobarbital and Potassium Bromide. A major advantage to this drug in humans is that is not metabolized by the liver, so it avoids the hepatotoxic (liver injuring) effects of other anticonvulsants. In dogs, gabapentin is metabolized partially by the liver and no one is completely sure of the anticonvulsant effects of this metabolite. It is believed that Gabapentin is beneficial in dogs with focal seizures refractory (resistant) to other drugs.
> ...


PHEW!!!!!!!!!!!  Its suppose to be a very good orthapedic drug for dogs to, no complaints here anyway & he is down to 400mg a day & £23 for 100x100mg but his insurance pays  hopeing to reduce it down a little when it gets warmer, if


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

rona said:


> Yeah I've read a lot of that, by rights it shouldn't be used in old dogs!!!!
> How many old dogs do not have heart insufficiency or impaired kidney or liver function?
> 
> I don't like it and I'm not using it on my dog.
> ...


Thats what I thought I should imagine old dogs can get reduced kidney and liver function just as a matter of course due to age. What worries me more Rona is the length of time its active and that complications can occur any time. its not like a normal daily tablet when if a problem occurs you can just stop it immediately either. As you said too if it didnt work you cant use any other NSAIDs or steroids either for a month from last tablet, although it says it can be a duration of 2mths??


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> It's the same as any other NSAID. You wouldn't add another painkiller on top of Rimadyl or Metacam. It has the same gastric impact, but much less because you give less. Yes, it's in the system longer but the only thing my vet mentioned was possibly an annual blood test to ensure there are no hidden issues.
> 
> Brig has been on it for a couple of years, although I fear it's no longer stopping the arthritic pain as he's limping quite noticeably, but I think that's because the condition is worsening as he ages.
> 
> The are risks in any medication: the best person to talk to is the vet. Raise your concerns and only you can decide once you've researched the pros and cons. Dependent on the dog's age, the balance may be in favour of this drug. I think its been a good tool for us, but it's not necessarily for everyone.


Yes I know the risks with NSAIDs, but they can be withdrawn and get out of the dogs system within hours. 
Trocoxil cannot be removed for up to 2 months  That's an awfully long time to leave your dog sick because of something you and your vet did


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dont know if you have tried him on Onsior Rona? Ive used it with no problems although not for a long term.

Like all other NSAIDs it has its risks, but that is a Dialy one and for arthritis.

http://www.onsior.com/docs/Onsior_Dog_Package_Leaflet.pdf


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Dont know if you have tried him on Onsior Rona? Ive used it with no problems although not for a long term.
> 
> Like all other NSAIDs it has its risks, but that is a Dialy one and for arthritis.
> 
> http://www.onsior.com/docs/Onsior_Dog_Package_Leaflet.pdf


The thing is, at present he isn't on any pain meds. Vet thought he should be on some but she doesn't see him when he's out. She's going on the size of his joint (it's quite large) Thing is, it doesn't bother him. Told her to stop worrying cos if it doesn't bother him it doesn't bother me.
Not having my dog on a drug like NSAIDs without good reason. He's going to be on them long enough anyway in the end.
Metacam isn't a problem for him so can't see why I should try anything else unless it stops being effective


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Surely swelling is the bodies way of protecting?
All this get the swelling down even if it's not causing a problem just seems silly to me


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If he seems fine and coping Ok and is free moving and happy on his walks then I wouldnt rush in and do anything for now. After Ive exercised and then sit for awhile, I can barely move and my joints hurt like hell, but once ive taken a few steps the stiffness eases and Im walking about normal. I certainly dont intend to swallow tons of painkillers unless I really have too, so if Alf is a similar thing to what I have I would think he is fine for now.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

rona said:


> My vet keeps mentioning this as the future drug for Alfies arthritis.
> Is it just me or doesn't a drug that stays in the body for a month or more worry any of you?
> Doesn't it cut down on possible treatments if something else crops up?


I would never risk that stuff again, Rona. Seriously, Joshua was on it for 18 months and despite regular blood tests to check his organs, I lost him to internal bleeding, probably caused by this drug.



Dally Banjo said:


> Banjo's back vet does'nt like it because some other drugs cant be used with it, so say god forbid  Banjo developed Epilepsy they would'nt be able to give the drugs for that with Trocoxil in the system.
> 
> Newfiesmum is sure Trocoxil was the cause of Joshua death to
> 
> Are Alfi's injections not working as well any more?


Yes, I am. When he had a bad flare up when on Trocoxil he could only have tramadol as an extra painkiller. I don't think it was all that great either, to be honest. Seems that his limp got worse when he didn't get his glucosomine and chondroitin, and the hydrotherapy was doing him more good.

Nobody told me about the side effects when he was prescribed it as a new wonder drug. I didn't read the leaflet, because I trusted the vet. Never again.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If he seems fine and coping Ok and is free moving and happy on his walks then I wouldnt rush in and do anything for now. After Ive exercised and then sit for awhile, I can barely move and my joints hurt like hell, but once ive taken a few steps the stiffness eases and Im walking about normal. I certainly dont intend to swallow tons of painkillers unless I really have too, so if Alf is a similar thing to what I have I would think he is fine for now.


He isn't even stiff when he first get up 
The joint has been swollen since his operation, I think as that was 2 years ago now, he would be suffering if I was doing wrong.

I think that people don't question why they are doing these things sometimes 
Common sense seems to go out the window and panic sets in when it's our little darlings


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I would never risk that stuff again, Rona. Seriously, Joshua was on it for 18 months and despite regular blood tests to check his organs, I lost him to internal bleeding, probably caused by this drug.
> 
> Yes, I am. When he had a bad flare up when on Trocoxil he could only have tramadol as an extra painkiller. I don't think it was all that great either, to be honest. Seems that his limp got worse when he didn't get his glucosomine and chondroitin, and the hydrotherapy was doing him more good.
> 
> Nobody told me about the side effects when he was prescribed it as a new wonder drug. I didn't read the leaflet, because I trusted the vet. Never again.


Thanks.
If I wasn't convinced before I am now


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

rona said:


> Thanks.
> If I wasn't convinced before I am now


When you consider that he was only three when I lost him, he would have been on this stuff for a good many years and I would never consider that to be safe, not now.

I will question everything in future, read everything I can. If you can manage with supplements, which I am sure did him more good anyway, then that is the way to go. I know he is on cartrophen, like my brother's goldie was, so why change if he is fine on it?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

rona said:


> He isn't even stiff when he first get up
> The joint has been swollen since his operation, I think as that was 2 years ago now, he would be suffering if I was doing wrong.
> 
> I think that people don't question why they are doing these things sometimes
> Common sense seems to go out the window and panic sets in when it's our little darlings


I would see how he goes then, usually one of the first signs is stiffness on rising and lowering to lay down if he isnt even showing that and walks quite happilly I dont see the immediate panic. I should imagine he will let you know when there is a problem.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> When you consider that he was only three when I lost him, he would have been on this stuff for a good many years and I would never consider that to be safe, not now.
> 
> I will question everything in future, read everything I can. If you can manage with supplements, which I am sure did him more good anyway, then that is the way to go. I know he is on cartrophen, like my brother's goldie was, so why change if he is fine on it?


Yes he's only on a 10 weekly cycle with that too, so we still have loads of leeway there yet, as he can go to every 4 weeks with that.
Hydro seems to "empty" and take the pressure from the joint, and Metacam once in a while when he's done something silly


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I would up supplements like glucosamine/chondroitin/msm/salmon oil and green lipped mussel tabs. My vet said you can't overdo do these, any excess just gets dispelled in the urine.
The biggest problem with NSAID's is gastric ulceration which is greatly increased if not given with ample food. They should always say to give with ample food as a little may not be enough to protect the stomach. The red raw sore that formed on Flynns lip due to tiny amounts of Metacam dribble occasionally was enough to convince me that I didn't want him on Metacam for his entire life from such a young age, so opted for surgery. I did change by upping the supplements and had Tramadol which being an opiod is good for pain relief and has a calming sedating affect, used as a drug of choice on patients with stomach ulcers in hosp too, so a little safer.
I did think with Flynn upping the supplemts helped a lot though!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I would up supplements like glucosamine/chondroitin/msm/salmon oil and green lipped mussel tabs. My vet said you can't overdo do these, any excess just gets dispelled in the urine.
> The biggest problem with NSAID's is gastric ulceration which is greatly increased if not given with ample food. They should always say to give with ample food as a little may not be enough to protect the stomach. The red raw sore that formed on Flynns lip due to tiny amounts of Metacam dribble occasionally was enough to convince me that I didn't want him on Metacam for his entire life from such a young age, so opted for surgery. I did change by upping the supplements and had Tramadol which being an opiod is good for pain relief and has a calming sedating affect, used as a drug of choice on patients with stomach ulcers in hosp too, so a little safer.
> I did think with Flynn upping the supplemts helped a lot though!


Yes we used Tramadol immediately after Alfies operation when the the Metacam just wasn't enough.
I don't see a problem with using a drug that's addictive in an end of life scenario, even if it's for a year.
They are never coming off it
Must look into Tramadol more 

Mmm just wonder if there are other drugs you can't use with it, that would make it as restrictive as the drug I'm trying to avoid!!
Off to look


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## unicorn (Jan 13, 2012)

I would not use Trocoxil because it has got to many side effects. They praise itas the new wonder pill but if you look close in to it it will cause more harm than help.plus it is not for permanent use.
I would use supplements like glucosamine/chondroitin/msm/salmon oil and green lipped mussel tab as well and some other better Painkillers.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

rona said:


> Mmm just wonder if there are other drugs you can't use with it, that would make it as restrictive as the drug I'm trying to avoid!!
> Off to look


From how I see it used at the hospital with many other drugs I think the only drawback could be it's addictive qualities. It is used on diabetics, with thyroid drugs and most all post op pain so I think it's pretty safe and flexible. I take it occasionly for back pain 100mg and when Marty had it for Pancreatitis he had 300mg at a time as did Flynn after his hip dislocation. It can be used with NSAID's if there is ever a need as Flynn had both at one point so Cartrophen could also still be given if needed.

A great drug IMO and not expensive, I pay around £18 for 45x100mg tabs.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Have found that a study has been carried out on Trocoxil, it started 2009 and in 2011 some extra warnings were added to information to vets 

http://www.vetwholesaler.co.uk/nvsnews/trocoxil.pdf

Veterinary medicines: product update -- 169 (6): 146 -- Veterinary Record

Can't get the whole article unfortunately


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Flynn's original hydrotherapist recommended it for Flynn but I didn't want yet another drug put into him. I'm not a fan of NSAID's they are brilliant for short term use but not long periods I don't think. Have a stomach ulcer myself caused by Aspirin taken for migraines. With migraines you tend to take whatever works and don't really think about the side effects and as migraines also produce sickness you can't always eat with them.
Silly me, should've known better!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Malmum said:


> From how I see it used at the hospital with many other drugs I think the only drawback could be it's addictive qualities. It is used on diabetics, with thyroid drugs and most all post op pain so I think it's pretty safe and flexible. I take it occasionly for back pain 100mg and when Marty had it for Pancreatitis he had 300mg at a time as did Flynn after his hip dislocation. It can be used with NSAID's if there is ever a need as Flynn had both at one point so Cartrophen could also still be given if needed.
> 
> A great drug IMO and not expensive, I pay around £18 for 45x100mg tabs.





Malmum said:


> Flynn's original hydrotherapist recommended it for Flynn but I didn't want yet another drug put into him. I'm not a fan of NSAID's they are brilliant for short term use but not long periods I don't think. Have a stomach ulcer myself caused by Aspirin taken for migraines. With migraines you tend to take whatever works and don't really think about the side effects and as migraines also produce sickness you can't always eat with them.
> Silly me, should've known better!


I'm a bit confused 
Are you talking about Carprofen rather than Cartrophen?
They are two completely different drugs
01 Carprofen (Rimadyl) - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

Cartrophen Vet - Healthy joints, happy pets

What did your hydro lady suggest?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

rona said:


> Have found that a study has been carried out on Trocoxil, it started 2009 and in 2011 some extra warnings were added to information to vets
> 
> http://www.vetwholesaler.co.uk/nvsnews/trocoxil.pdf
> 
> ...


And that is when Joshua started taking it, at the beginning of 2010.


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