# Spade Bitch



## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi everyone..

i'm completely new to the show world- have yet to compete... buuuut before i go and get my bitch spayed, i just wanted to know if spayed bitches were allowed to compete in the show ring? i know castrated males aren't (?) but didn't think that spaying actually changed the formation of the dog so thought i'd ask the question!!

thanks!

Kate


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## Chloef (Feb 23, 2011)

Yes you can you need to inform the KC though


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

You'll probably find that neutering changes the coat.
In my breed, the coat _generally_ becomes long, wavy and sometimes massive. Generally not a snow proof working dogs coat any more 
If you really want to show your Girly I'd talk to your breeder & find out just what happens to cocker coats. The trouble is, once she's neutered there's no going back. If her coat is ruined; that's that 
It's not that difficult to manage a bitch & her seasons. It just takes some planning and forethought
My girls are generally neutered at about 7, when they're entering the veteran stage (I wish some one would tell them that).
Linda


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

allenchen19810909 said:


> I don't suggest you neuter her.


I see you`re linking to an advert. A new form of spamming?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Castrated males are allowed in the ring


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

You can show neutered dogs and bitches, you just have to let the KC know by filling in a very simple form. You don't have to ask permission like you used to.


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

sorry my mistake re: castrated males!! thanks everyone, i shall do some investigating then. it would be a shame to ruin her coat- i'll see how her first few companion shows go and if she has much potential before i do anything- we're not in any particular rush as she's so young. thanks!


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## jo5 (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi I see you have a Black Cocker, excellent taste Anyway others have answered your question about actually entering but I must inform you that if you get her spayed it very likely that it will affect her coat Show Cockers need to be handstripped and this is very very difficult sometimes impossible to do on a spayed bitch. The coat texture changes making it more woolly, if you are serious about showing her then I would wait and see how she does, as said before managing seasons isn't as daunting as it may seem as long as you are sensible, good luck.


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

jo5 said:


> Hi I see you have a Black Cocker, excellent taste Anyway others have answered your question about actually entering but I must inform you that if you get her spayed it very likely that it will affect her coat Show Cockers need to be handstripped and this is very very difficult sometimes impossible to do on a spayed bitch. The coat texture changes making it more woolly, if you are serious about showing her then I would wait and see how she does, as said before managing seasons isn't as daunting as it may seem as long as you are sensible, good luck.


haha thanks! yeah- i was aware it changed their coat as i had a spayed bitch before when i was younger but we also had her shaved (don't hate us). this time i want to keep her coat as it is. we're going to a couple of companion shows and will pop along to some ringcraft classes etc and i'll see how she does. she's only 7 months so there's a bit of time to see how she does. im not rushing into spaying her just yet and im not too daunted by the season, so i'll see how she takes to showing!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

CockersIndie said:


> sorry my mistake re: castrated males!! thanks everyone, i shall do some investigating then. it would be a shame to ruin her coat- i'll see how her first few companion shows go and if she has much potential before i do anything- we're not in any particular rush as she's so young. thanks!


I wouldn't really take too much notice of results at companion shows, often a judge won't know the breed standard for your breed of dog. They are good for practice though


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I wouldn't really take too much notice of results at companion shows, often a judge won't know the breed standard for your breed of dog. They are good for practice though


yeah i guess i meant more if she (and of course i) takes to it! i shall have to seek out some open shows for the real thing? (i'm embarrassed at my own naivety, i haven't shown before!)


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

CockersIndie said:


> Hi everyone..
> 
> i'm completely new to the show world- have yet to compete... buuuut before i go and get my bitch spayed, i just wanted to know if spayed bitches were allowed to compete in the show ring? i know castrated males aren't (?) but didn't think that spaying actually changed the formation of the dog so thought i'd ask the question!!


I'd love to know where these myths come from, you can show neutered dogs and bitches - obviously, dogs are at a bit of a disadvantage because part of the breed standard for males is "two correctly descended testicles" - but they can still be shown, and there one or two who have done extremely well.

You should be able to get a form off the KC website - they seem to be chopping and changing everything on their site atm - and I believe you need a signed statement from the vet doing the neutering.

You no longer need "permission" as such, but I believe you do have to wait for the letter to come back before you can show - hopefully someone will have an idea how long this can take.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Why not take your bitch back to the breeder to determine if she is of "show quality"? They are best placed to know, unless they have little or no experience.

Otherwise seek out a successful exhibitor/breeder/judge to have shufti, so you do not waste a lot of money on entries and fuel and get disappointed.


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

This is the form http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/394/neutereddogsform.pdf


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

swarthy said:


> I'd love to know where these myths come from, you can show neutered dogs and bitches - obviously, dogs are at a bit of a disadvantage because part of the breed standard for males is "two correctly descended testicles" - but they can still be shown, and there one or two who have done extremely well.
> 
> You should be able to get a form off the KC website - they seem to be chopping and changing everything on their site atm - and I believe you need a signed statement from the vet doing the neutering.
> 
> You no longer need "permission" as such, but I believe you do have to wait for the letter to come back before you can show - hopefully someone will have an idea how long this can take.


that's why i assumed (obviously wrongly!) that castrated males couldn't be shown because i had noted the "two correctly descended testicles" part of the breed standards and i know that this is what they are judged to. thank you all for clearing this up for me!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

CockersIndie said:


> that's why i assumed (obviously wrongly!) that castrated males couldn't be shown because i had noted the "two correctly descended testicles" part of the breed standards and i know that this is what they are judged to. thank you all for clearing this up for me!


The comment wasn't directed specifically at you  it's just there are so many myths flying around - like the not being able to show neutered dogs (both sexes) or needing permission (which you don't any more), or registering more than one litter in a 12 month period (Licensed breeders excepted) etc etc

I just wonder where they come from 

Did the breeder you got your girl from show herself?

I would go to a ringcraft class or two and maybe go and have a look at a couple of shows to get a handle on what you need to do.

Not buying from a show-breeder doesn't automatically mean the dog won't be suitable for showing - but obviously you have a higher chance if the litter were specifically bred for show.

I know more than a few people who have decided to "have a dabble" and done really well.

A single result in a show means very little - you will go under all-rounders and breed specialists and then gundog specialists who will sit inbetween the others - I can remember when I started showing my eldest show girl - she had a couple of OK results, then at 8 months, she swept the board under a gundog specialist winning Best of Breed, Best AV Gundog puppy, Best AV Gundog Open, last 8 in Best in Show and Best puppy in show - the following day we went to another show and got 4th out of 4 - the joys of showing :lol: she didn't fully mature till she was 2.5 so we had a long wait (then in her prime, she went and badly injured her leg  )

Open shows have closing dates from an absolute minimum of 2 weeks (KC ruling) up to 6/7 weeks - and if you are intending to start soon, then start looking at shows now because closing dates will tend to extend over the spring and summer period as printers get busier etc etc - same for Limit shows - and both are usually very reasonably priced to enter - if you are enteirng Limit shows, then you have to pay up as a member when you enter (usually no more than a pound or two)

You may well have said how old your girl is - my apologies if I have missed it - but if you do want to show and your girl is still young, then wait for her to mature and have at least one season (and possibly two) before you neuter her - the girl I was talking about above had two seasons before she really came into her own.


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

that's ok- i am all new to this so it's great to be learning!thanks for all that advice swarthy- im definitely going to have a dabble! she's 7 months at the moment, and we're definitely going to let her have at least one season, if not two, depending on how she matures. 

the breeder herself didnt show so her mum wasn't a show dog. but her dad had moderate successes, think was RCC welsh gundog etc so she has some 'show' blood which was what made me think she might have some potential and it would be a shame not to dabble and see! 

but yes i do now realise the different levels of judging etc so i'll see how she takes to classes and the ring to start with and then progress onto open shows. it's nice to hear your bitch did so well! i've found a ringcraft class really close to me so i've just to organise myself and get down there! it's all very daunting though!


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