# A real dilemma - any suggestions?



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Some may remember Bruce attacking Marty some months ago because of the hedgehog that has taken up residence in next doors garden and made its bed right up against my fence. I know where it sleeps and have seen it when I went to investigate why the dogs had that fight. 

Well since then all the Mals are obsessed with it, I can't let two dogs out together in my side of the garden (my garden is divided so as I have two, due to separating Kali) because I pretty much know a fight will ensue. Flynn is now totally focused on nothing but this hedgehog once dusk arrives. He has broken a small hole in the fence where it lies and is digging trying to get to it. He jumped the separating fence the other day, which terrified me because of his hips and is constantly panting and pacing now. I can't put him in any other part of the garden due to him jumping again so he has to stay in the house or be over 'my side' which is driving him frantic. 

Problem is:
My elderly neighbour likes her hedgehog, she says it keeps slugs at bay and I'd like it too if I were her. So now I don't know if she'd let me take it and put it over the park. 
What to do?
Do I: tell her that as an endangered species it has to be set free in order to breed, they're protected now?
Or: take it when she isn't there and re locate it where it can be with its own kind?
Or: Tell her the truth, that I'm worried about fights with the dogs, Flynn damaging his hips and that it should be set free? 

It went into her garden last year, got under her side gate but during hibernation has grown and now can't get out. The dogs are driving me nuts and now we have to be on our guard that we don't let Bruce and Marts wander over that side of the garden and Kali and Flynn can't go out together either. Flynn pants more at night because he's so obsessed with it than he doss in the day when the weather is scorching. I'm so fed up I could cry because I don't know what to do. 

What would you do?

Sorry for the massively long post btw.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Id move it, and tell her the truth. 

Also say you were worried for the safety of the hedgepig.

Cant be nice for all involved to be that stressed.


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

Agree with Nonnie. 

Tell her the truth, she should understand. It's better and safer for both the dogs and the hedgehog.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Another vote for moving the hedgehog and telling the truth.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

So you want your neighbour to take action to prevent/solve a problem you have which has nothing to do with her...............?


Interesting.

You cannot refocus your dogs, fix the garden/fence so that there is not a problem so you want the neighbour to be deprived perhaps of the only companion she has?

Nice.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> So you want your neighbour to take action to prevent/solve a problem you have which has nothing to do with her...............?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> ...


Pretty much this. Could you maybe as a temporary measure keep your dogs on a longline in the garden Malmum? Thats what we do here, until we can afford good proper gating that my dog can't jump over.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm not sure if this would work, but maybe you could explain the situation and maybe buy a little hedgehog house, fill with bedding, and maybe the hedgehog may choose that instead.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I dont see why the hedgehog should be moved if he is happy and the lady cares for it.

Treat it as a cat next door, you cant move that so problem solve around it.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Discuss it with your neighbour before doing anything, tell her what you have told us.

Could you buy her a hedgehog house for the other side of her garden that way she could keep her hedgehog and you get to relax about the dogs.

I do think it would be extremely rude to move the hedgehog without asking and gaining her permission first..

She has the right to her Hedgehog and the enjoyment of her garden as I'm sure you will agree


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I'd chat to your neighbour and explain the situation. Perhaps offer, as others have mentioned, buying a little cosy home for the hedgehog to go on the other side of the fence.

Also explain if one of your dogs did get to the hedgehog or it got into your garden, he wouldnt be safe (Charlie I know would take great pleasure in getting a hedgehog).

I'm sure a compromise can be reached


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I think I'm going to go with explaining the situation to her. I am her carer so I know her very well, I also know that she doesn't 'care' for this hedgehog or feed it but she knows they eat slugs, that's why she likes it there. She is 89 and isn't capable of looking after it as if it were her pet, it just wandered in and now can't get out. Being endangered it's now prevented from breeding too, so I have e mailed Hogwatch to ask if I should set it free. I know pretty much what they'll say and I can print off their response for her to have a look.

Until then my son has said he'll saw up a tree trunk we have and put that against the fence so as Flynn can't punch another hole in it, that doesn't solve the problem of fights but that can be managed for now.

*For those who think it's like a cat - it isn't, it's a wild creature and not a domestic pet and as such should not be captivated - whether intentionally or not - it is also one of our endangered species and should be set free to breed.* *You can't keep endangered species just because you like them and can be fined for doing so - remember this creature cannot get out of that garden.* My main concern was how to broach my neighbour without sounding forceful.

Thanks for the helpful replies and for the ones who don't know the difference between a pet and a captivated wild creature - condolences!

ETA - Flynn didn't jump her fence, that's seven feet high - he jumped my four foot dividing fence because I had put him over the other side of my own divided garden. Goodness I wouldn't have a fence the dogs could get out of my garden by just jumping - seven foot walls on the other three sides too!


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

i kind of agree that the old lady should be allowed to keep the hedgehog, after all you are allowed to keep your dogs. i do sympathise with you tho as i have the same problem with the neighbour opposite me, she has 9 adult cats and now theres massive of kittens and blitz just obessively lunges at the gate to try and get them, at the moment i am trying to find something big enough to block the whole of his view so he cant see them, would something like that work for you


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't think it would be fair to move the hedgehog, it's made it's home now for over a year, they woman likes it and possibly see's it as a sort of companion, I would get the fence sorted and supervise your dogs in the garden, very carefully, so they can't get to the hedgehog or hurt themselves, could also give them a quick 5 mins round the block night time wee until you can secure the garden properly. if it's not a hedgehog causing them problems something else might so it is worth while making sure you have a very very secure fence they can't dig under or jump over. 

how would you feel if the women told you she was going to move your dogs to the park because they were upsetting her hedgehog? I know that obv wouldn't happen but it's the same thing really. 

as for taking it when she isn't there, that would be such a nasty cruel thing to do and I don't think there is any law that hedgehogs can't live in a garden.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I think I'm going to go with explaining the situation to her. I am her carer so I know her very well, I also know that she doesn't 'care' for this hedgehog or feed it but she knows they eat slugs, that's why she likes it there. She is 89 and isn't capable of looking after it as if it were her pet, it just wandered in and now can't get out. Being endangered it's now prevented from breeding too, so I have e mailed Hogwatch to ask if I should set it free. I know pretty much what they'll say and I can print off their response for her to have a look.
> 
> *For those who think it's like a cat - it isn't, it's a wild creature and not a domestic pet and as such should not be captivated - whether intentionally or not - it is also one of our endangered species and should be set free to breed.* *You can't keep endangered species just because you like them and can be fined for doing so - remember this creature cannot get out of that garden.* My main concern was how to broach my neighbour without sounding forceful.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful replies and for the ones who don't know the difference between a pet and a captivated wild creature - condolences!


For those who do not know the difference between "_captive_" and "_captivated_" - condolences.

I am glad you are not my mother's "carer".........................

Also none of us think hedgehogs are "like cats" what the other posters were alluding to was the fact that many of our neighbours have cats, ferrets, guinea pigs, hamsters, rabbits, children, fish etc etc etc that could be attractive to our dogs.

We tend to handle these issues by managing the environment or by training, rather than trying to get rid of the (insert relevent species).


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

As for moving the hog, I will take advice from hogwatch regarding it being endangered. If they say it should be moved I will move it and explain to my neighbour that it's cruel to prevent it from breeding. I wouldn't see a problem if it could get out of the garden, we have hedgehogs that come and go but this one is trapped (effectively) and because it's always there the dogs are constantly aware of it. We are lucky that we get lots of hedgehogs on the front lawn, so I know it will have a breeding chance - whatever sex it is. 

I have to point out that it was me who told her she had a hedgehog, she has never even seen it apart from when showed I it to her - so I won't be depriving her of a companion as she's in bed when it comes out and it's in bed when she gets up.
People are talking like she has a pet which she dotes on and she doesn't but she likes the fact that it eats her slugs. I feel mean taking her 'pesticide' away not her pet!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

If she's not feeding it, then I'm surprised it's getting enough food in one garden. Hedgehog terrirtories are big, and they roam a surprisingly long way every night. They are also expert climbers, can climb high fences and walls, and just roll into a ball to land the other side.

My first thought was also provide it with a hedgehog house sited well away from the fence, but apart from that there's not much you can do. Rue spends time worrying at the fence now our new neighbours have a cat, even trying to break it down (luckily there's a low wall the other side) but it's my responsibility to prevent her from doing so, if only because the obsessive behaviour needs to be kept under control and not permitted to be practiced.

Hence why we are dividing the garden with a fence at some point, not just for that reason, but it makes sense.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I think I would try and talk to someone official about the hodgepig..as stated they are endangered and can use all the help they can get.
If it was in the garden by choice then I would say you would have to suck it up but if it is a wild animal that is now trapped in there then its a different matter. Thinking that a hedgehog in the garden keeps the slugs down is no reason to hold an endangered wild animal hostage!
TBH I would want it moved because I would worry that the dogs might get through the fence one day and kill it.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

British Hedgehog Preservation Society says:

_We know that urban landscapes are increasingly important to hedgehogs so we have launched Hedgehog Street to encourage and help people create hedgehog-friendly neighbourhoods._

Glad you are doing your bit to help.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

another idea...maybe ask if you can make a hole in the fence on the other side so it can get out if it wants to.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

It seems with the help your extra clarification its an easy solution.

Tell your neighbour how you have read that Hedgehogs are becoming endangered and you are worried your dogs are upsetting hers and also that the hedgehog doesn't have the opportunity to find a mate.

Ask if you can make a hedgehog habitat on the other side of the garden plus a walk way through the fence for him to go into the park and find a mate.

That way fate will take its course either Mr Tiggywinkle will leave or he will return and raise a family in the hedgehog utopia you have created on the other side of the garden.

If Mr Tiggywinkle leaves for pastures new, offer your neighbour a bird table to encourage blackbirds and thrushes into the garden to eat the slugs.

A butterfly bush would be nice too but perhaps I'm getting carried away


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

To be honest if shes just got wooden fencing then likely knowing Mals and sibes if they know some small critter is there, the B****rs will just rip holes in the fences and have a go at it every opportunity anyway until they can get to it. Once they are fixated on prey and know it there then they will continue. So short of keeping them in, taking them out on leads or building a close weldmesh pen like colditz to incarcerate them then likely the only solution is to rehome the hedgehog. Is there no other neighbours further down who will have it in their garden far enough away.

If the lady next door doesn't really feed it, watch it daily or gets pleasure from it I don't really see the problem, cant be doing much for its stress levels if there are whacking great dogs trying to get to it and use it as a football.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> If she's not feeding it, then I'm surprised it's getting enough food in one garden. Hedgehog terrirtories are big, and they roam a surprisingly long way every night. They are also expert climbers, can climb high fences and walls, and just roll into a ball to land the other side.


Precisely this. I would bet money that, unless this garden is like fort knox, the hog is not truly trapped. It's been there a year and so is quite clearly doing fine, hedgehogs are solitary creatures and have no desire for being 'with their own kind' apart from when mating. Dropping a territorial animal into a territory that is not it's own has a high chance of not ending well, particularly if it comes across a road or predator trying to escape or get it's bearings. As it's hog breeding season, you also run the risk of orphaning young if this hedgehog is female and is leaving the garden.

tbh I agree with smokeybear, it sounds like you're wanting to move this animal, not out of any desire to 'save an endangered species' but for your own convenience and with little compassion for your elderly neighbour.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

How about a compromise?

Miss Tiggywinkles, the hedgehog hospital suggest that Hedgehog houses are much safer than garden burrows what with cats, dogs etc around. Maybe you can make one or buy one and offer this as the suggestion to your neighbour. It's offering a positive solution that will benefit you all I hope.

I see both sides, since they are a problem for us too - my neighbours feed them and often tiresomely lecture me on the care as if now experts when we've been looking after them much longer :Yawn: We've been leaving out cat food and encouraging a route at the front of our garden beyond our gates so Molly can't get to them but I keep her on a lead at night when they are active just in case they get in.

Here's Miss Tiggywinkles links for fact sheets etc. I'd read through those if you decided to move it in case it's not advisable.
http://www.sttiggywinkles.org.uk/images/PDF/PDF Fact Sheets/Hedgehog_home.pdf

Welcome to Tiggywinkles Wildlife Hospital


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> To be honest if shes just got wooden fencing then likely knowing Mals and sibes if they know some small critter is there, the B****rs will just rip holes in the fences and have a go at it every opportunity anyway until they can get to it. Once they are fixated on prey and know it there then they will continue. So short of keeping them in, taking them out on leads or building a close weldmesh pen like colditz to incarcerate them then likely the only solution is to rehome the hedgehog. Is there no other neighbours further down who will have it in their garden far enough away.
> 
> If the lady next door doesn't really feed it, watch it daily or gets pleasure from it I don't really see the problem, cant be doing much for its stress levels if there are whacking great dogs trying to get to it and use it as a football.


I know sled dog and there have been quite a few on the facebook Mal groups that have been killed by Mals so far this year. I think it's scratching along the fence because you can hear a kind of clawing and that's probably what's brought the Mals attention to it. There's sh*t loads of slugs, snails and earth worms in any garden (judging by mine) to sustain a hedgehog so I'm not worried about it getting food. All of these gardens are built the same, there are no gaps under the fencing because they have concrete bottoms which the fences sit on and brick walls on three sides (detached houses with only one fence shared in each, down the middle) the only entrance's are under our gates. My son built my side gate purposely low so as hedgehogs cannot get in, I didn't want the Mals killing one and Marty very nearly did when he was young, so the gate was replaced. I have a lot of undergrowth and if I don't spot a 'punch' hole I don't want it wandering in either  but I don't know where to re locate, farm land is not good because of mechanical vehicles but there is a huge park opposite which may be better.

I've e mailed hogwatch for advice to see what they suggest, have asked about the likelihood of it using a hog box, though I don't really think my neighbour will want one amongst her roses tbh but it could go oer the other side of her garden. I don't want to have to watch ALL of the dogs in their own garden, bad enough I've been having to do that with Kali for eight years and I really don't want to have to do it with all of them just because a wild animal has set up home in a small garden. They do roam but this one can't, so that's an issue too.

Will just have to wait and see what the return e mail says and tell my neighbour what I'm doing. The last thing I want is to see it killed, bad enough when we witnessed a badger killing one in the street one night, it screamed the place down and I thought it was the badger doing some kind of mating screech  til I looked the next day and saw a chewed up hedgehog!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I know sled dog and there have been quite a few on the facebook Mal groups that have been killed by Mals so far this year. I think it's scratching along the fence because you can hear a kind of clawing and that's probably what's brought the Mals attention to it. There's sh*t loads of slugs, snails and earth worms in any garden (judging by mine) to sustain a hedgehog so I'm not worried about it getting food. All of these gardens are built the same, there are no gaps under the fencing because they have concrete bottoms which the fences sit on and brick walls on three sides (detached houses with only one fence shared in each, down the middle) the only entrance's are under our gates. My son built my side gate purposely low so as hedgehogs cannot get in, I didn't want the Mals killing one and Marty very nearly did when he was young, so the gate was replaced. I have a lot of undergrowth and if I don't spot a 'punch' hole I don't want it wandering in either  but I don't know where to re locate, farm land is not good because of mechanical vehicles but there is a huge park opposite which may be better.
> 
> I've e mailed hogwatch for advice to see what they suggest, have asked about the likelihood of it using a hog box, though I don't really think my neighbour will want one amongst her roses tbh but it could go oer the other side of her garden. I don't want to have to watch ALL of the dogs in their own garden, bad enough I've been having to do that with Kali for eight years and I really don't want to have to do it with all of them just because a wild animal has set up home in a small garden. They do roam but this one can't, so that's an issue too.
> 
> Will just have to wait and see what the return e mail says and tell my neighbour what I'm doing. The last thing I want is to see it killed, bad enough when we witnessed a badger killing one in the street one night, it screamed the place down and I thought it was the badger doing some kind of mating screech  til I looked the next day and saw a chewed up hedgehog!


At the moment all you can do is see what hogwatch say they are the best people to advise. I like you wouldn't like to see it come to harm either.
If it had only camped out the other side of the garden then you wouldn't have had the problem its because its moving about along your fence and that's where it spends all of its time from what you say, they will just continue to hear it and smell it and it will be driving them mad. Unfortunately unlike cats who have the sense to either stay out completely or stay high enough out of the dogs way, or plan a route where the dogs cant get to them, little critters don't and just go about their business regardless.

We have cats about here and there but the cats stay well out the way and squirrels in the garden, the dogs may chase the squirrels down the garden but the squirrels run along the top of the high fences and then disappear in the trees at back so they never can get to them. Little critters at ground level though are another story.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Yep it's not a good situation all round. I feed hedgehogs at the front of the house with wax worms, because we get them for our tropical frogs and gheko's, the babies you can feed by hand, that's why we lowered the fence because like you say they are not wary. The ones that have been killed have been the victims of the famous 'Mally stomp' that they do by bringing their weight down on their front paws - I'm sure you've seen them do it - and once whacked like that they uncurl, as you can imagine. I don't want to see that and I don't want Flynns hip replacements put in jeopardy either - of course I blinking don't, goes without saying. I often wonder if people who say 'for your own convenience' have ever had a dog go through hip replacement surgery and have the faintest idea why you'd be worried - or the 'train them' have ever had one Mal let alone three with high prey drive like they have. You don't train out a breed trait you manage it but in your own garden its actually nice to feel relaxed and enjoy the tranquility it affords. If I can re locate the hog, give it back the freedom it had last year, plus my dogs previous stress free environment then I will and that will be very 'convenient' indeed - as it should be.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

When I said treat it like a cat I meant an animal YOU cannot move. Or even a rabbit, where it isn't your place to move the animal. If your neighbour had a rabbit you couldn't move that if your dogs were obsessed by that.
You did say in your op that she enjoyed having it.

If there is a hole in the fence where it can be seen, even a tiny bit, then it has freedom and is choosing to stay as hogs can get through tiny holes.
It could be a wild animal who prefers to stay put, it happens with some, we had a squirrel who stayed in our garden through choice. Of it has been there a year leave it be. It could be moved and then end up being killed by another animal out there.

Put a large plant pot by the hole. If it isn't big enough for it to come through that should cover it.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

The conceit of some people often amazes me.

Especially the oft quoted "prey drive" of Malamutes.

Do you REALLY think that your breed has a prey drive that is something special and does not exist in others?

I think you need to get your head out of the sand and look around at others which have extremely high prey drives.

One of the reasons why many owners are successful in several arenas is to do with the extremely high prey drives of their dogs.

Amazingly enough these dogs can be managed adequately in gardens in and around other living creatures.

There is a VAST difference between "_having an extremely high prey drive_" and "_being unable to train/manage your dog_".

Go and watch some Open Field Trials, IPO/Schutzhund etc these dogs have just as much if not more prey drive than Malamutes and in addition, can move a HELL of a lot FASTER.

As for punching holes through fences, get a stronger fence.

Blaming others for your own inadequacies is a lot easier of course.

As for the hip replacement issue, there are plenty of competition and service dogs and which have had total hip replacements, they are not cripples that have to be managed.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

OP- I think your attitude is disgraceful. You cannot control your own dogs so you want your neighbour to lose out. If she had a rabbit you would have to control the situation or find a way around it. You wouldn't ask her to get rid of it. If you can't control your dogs then you shouldn't have got so many.
As for you suggesting you just take it from her garden. What sort of carer are you preying on the elderly!
How do you know that the hedgehog cannot get out? Have you witnessed it trying and failing? Had you even considered the possibility that it likes it there? Or even that it does venture out but then returns?


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> I don't think it would be fair to move the hedgehog, it's made it's home now for over a year, they woman likes it and possibly see's it as a sort of companion, I would get the fence sorted and supervise your dogs in the garden, very carefully, so they can't get to the hedgehog or hurt themselves, could also give them a quick 5 mins round the block night time wee until you can secure the garden properly. if it's not a hedgehog causing them problems something else might so it is worth while making sure you have a very very secure fence they can't dig under or jump over.
> 
> how would you feel if the women told you she was going to move your dogs to the park because they were upsetting her hedgehog? I know that obv wouldn't happen but it's the same thing really.
> 
> as for taking it when she isn't there, that would be such a nasty cruel thing to do and I don't think there is any law that hedgehogs can't live in a garden.


This exactly- Why do we have the right to move a wild animal from a neighbours garden?

It must be able to get in /out as has managed to find enough food for over a year.  It has obviously set up a nice little home there just seems abit mean to move it - How do you know your not moving it to another hogs territory?

And as for the its important it needs to breed how do you know other hogs arnt getting in the garden? 

Just all seems abit over the top - If fences need reinforcing then so be it and if you cant leave them alone in the garden well that seems sensible anyway.

I would never leave Millie in the garden when im not watching- To paranoid 

I would contact a few hedgehog charities for advice but the idea of lying to a neighbour and moving it yourself to somewhere it could be in danger seems like a quick fix


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> This exactly- Why do we have the right to move a wild animal from a neighbours garden?
> 
> It must be able to get in /out as has managed to find enough food for over a year.  It has obviously set up a nice little home there just seems bait mean to move it - How do you know your not moving it to another hogs territory?
> 
> ...


Agree with this. What on earth gives you the right to trespass on a neighbours property and remove the hedgehog? They are a protected species, but your neighbour has not "captured" it. Hedgehogs are pretty agile and it is probably more than capable of getting in and out of her garden.


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm afraid I'd be another for leaving it be. Hedgehogs can climb very well, they can swim and can run fast, if it wants to leave the garden it will. It might be against the law to have an endangered animal in captivity but she hasn't got it in captivity, it's simply chosen to have her garden for it's territory, fair enough if she had it locked in a cage. A hedgehogs life span is 2-3 years so it's spent probably half it's life living happily in a territory of it's own choosing and to move it would be cruel and could be dangerous. You might think you're moving it to a lovely spot in the park but that spot could belong to another hedgehog.

I think the most important point is: your neighbour is not keeping an endangered animal in captivity, the hedgehog is free to move to a different territory but he is choosing to live where he is.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> Also none of us think hedgehogs are "like cats" what the other posters were alluding to was the fact that many of our neighbours have cats, ferrets, guinea pigs, hamsters, rabbits, children, fish etc etc etc that could be attractive to our dogs.
> 
> We tend to handle these issues by managing the environment or by training, rather than trying to get rid of the (insert relevent species).


Thank you, this was it exactly!!! I meant I cannot force my neighbour to move a cat/rabbit away so I would prevent my dog from harming it.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I think I'm going to go with explaining the situation to her. I am her carer so I know her very well, I also know that she doesn't 'care' for this hedgehog or feed it but she knows they eat slugs, that's why she likes it there. She is 89 and isn't capable of looking after it as if it were her pet, it just wandered in and now can't get out. Being endangered it's now prevented from breeding too, so I have e mailed Hogwatch to ask if I should set it free. I know pretty much what they'll say and I can print off their response for her to have a look.


It seems mean and unfair and underhand to do something like that tbh, it's none of your business if the hedgehog likes it there and the woman likes the hedgehog. Why contact them, the hog is coming to no harm, it seems it is your dogs that are the problem. Contacting them behind her back and then printing it off as evidence just seems mean.

I would say control the dogs.


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I think I'm going to go with explaining the situation to her. I am her carer so I know her very well, I also know that she doesn't 'care' for this hedgehog or feed it but she knows they eat slugs, that's why she likes it there. She is 89 and isn't capable of looking after it as if it were her pet, it just wandered in and now can't get out. Being endangered it's now prevented from breeding too, so I have e mailed Hogwatch to ask if I should set it free. I know pretty much what they'll say and I can print off their response for her to have a look.
> 
> Until then my son has said he'll saw up a tree trunk we have and put that against the fence so as Flynn can't punch another hole in it, that doesn't solve the problem of fights but that can be managed for now.
> 
> ...


The thing is, it's not being prevented from breeding, if it wanted to leave the garden and live somewhere else it would have gone, it could be going out, breeding and then coming home to it's own territory, it is not trapped in the garden and unless you are watching it 24/7 you have no idea if it's popping out on a night.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry but I find it pretty selfish that you want to move an animal your neighbour is enjoying rather than controlling your own animals. I've had a dog with extremely high prey drive, who was well practised in catching and killing other animals and we managed him around neighbours pets. It's perfectly doable.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I don't want to have to watch ALL of the dogs in their own garden, bad enough I've been having to do that with Kali for eight years and I really don't want to have to do it with all of them just because a wild animal has set up home in a small garden.


But don't you have to watch them in the garden at all times anyway as if their prey drive is so high, they could easily get a cat that wanders in. Didn't they once throw a cat between each other that they had caught?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Yep it's not a good situation all round. I feed hedgehogs at the front of the house with wax worms, because we get them for our tropical frogs and gheko's, the babies you can feed by hand, that's why we lowered the fence because like you say they are not wary. The ones that have been killed have been the victims of the famous 'Mally stomp' that they do by bringing their weight down on their front paws - I'm sure you've seen them do it - and once whacked like that they uncurl, as you can imagine. I don't want to see that and I don't want Flynns hip replacements put in jeopardy either - of course I blinking don't, goes without saying. I often wonder if people who say 'for your own convenience' have ever had a dog go through hip replacement surgery and have the faintest idea why you'd be worried - or the 'train them' have ever had one Mal let alone three with high prey drive like they have. You don't train out a breed trait you manage it but in your own garden its actually nice to feel relaxed and enjoy the tranquility it affords. If I can re locate the hog, give it back the freedom it had last year, plus my dogs previous stress free environment then I will and that will be very 'convenient' indeed - as it should be.


Yes well considering some of the people who made the most noise have weims and I do gun dog training or herding breeds that dont have a lot of prey drive or drive you can harness pretty easily its probably understandable.
Nan and Kobi were taught to retrieve and give up toys and things akin to training dummies, but I would like to see someone try to train them to retrieve a duck or rabbbit The B****rs would likely go and get it happily then stop and scoff it down on the way back Kobi caught an ailing wood pidgeon at 4/5 months shot down the garden quicker then I could and grabbed it and at that age ate half of it before I could do anything, I was mortified and upset but what can you do that's the breed for you. If you dont know them inside out and live with them for years on a daily basis then its easy to say.


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

I would tell her the truth... if it mysteriously vanished one day she might get worried and anxious about where it's gone and if it's ok.

Tell her that it's bothering the dogs, and you're concerned about the fighting and for Flynn's hips. Also mention about them being endangered and that it needs to go back to the wild anyway. Maybe you could help her release him back to the wild if she's an elderly lady.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Yes well considering some of the people who made the most noise have weims and I do gun dog training or herding breeds that dont have a lot of prey drive or drive you can harness pretty easily its probably understandable.
> Nan and Kobi were taught to retrieve and give up toys and things akin to training dummies, but I would like to see someone try to train them to retrieve a duck or rabbbit The B****rs would likely go and get it happily then stop and scoff it down on the way back Kobi caught an ailing wood pidgeon at 4/5 months shot down the garden quicker then I could and grabbed it and at that age ate half of it before I could do anything, I was mortified and upset but what can you do that's the breed for you. If you dont know them inside out and live with them for years on a daily basis then its easy to say.


Yes, but it is no ones fault what breed we choose, especially neighbours and they shouldn't have to change what they want to do because of a dogs prey drive.

I have dogs with low prey drive, yes, because I couldn't handle a dog with a large one and if you cannot deal with it you shouldn't choose a breed with one.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> But don't you have to watch them in the garden at all times anyway as if their prey drive is so high, they could easily get a cat that wanders in. Didn't they once throw a cat between each other that they had caught?


Yes Malmums are checked on like mine are and we both have adequate fencing to contain them and high enough as regards perameters with neighbours are concerned on the subject of cats and thngs like squirrels as I mentioned in a previous post.

At the moment all you can do is see what hogwatch say they are the best people to advise. I like you wouldn't like to see it come to harm either.
If it had only camped out the other side of the garden then you wouldn't have had the problem its because its moving about along your fence and that's where it spends all of its time from what you say, they will just continue to hear it and smell it and it will be driving them mad. Unfortunately unlike cats who have the sense to either stay out completely or stay high enough out of the dogs way, or plan a route where the dogs cant get to them, little critters don't and just go about their business regardless.

We have cats about here and there but the cats stay well out the way and squirrels in the garden, the dogs may chase the squirrels down the garden but the squirrels run along the top of the high fences and then disappear in the trees at back so they never can get to them. Little critters at ground level though are another story.

I also have a pond full of Koi fish that mine dont bother with in the slightest and am looking after my daughters guinea pigs at the moment but the dogs are not allowed anywhere near and dont bother because they are no where within range of hearing and cant wind them up. Its because the hedgehog is running and scrabbling inches away on the other side of a wooden fence and that's where its living directly on top of them, they can hear and smell it all the time.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

If I knew enough about hedgehogs, breeding season etc., and there were no danger of removing it leaving young behind, I'd move it when she wasn't around and not say a word. If its ever mentioned, about her not seeing it, I can't say I've seen it recently either.

We had a hedgehog in our garden Duke used to run up to it and let us know it was there, it stayed around for ages but then chose to leave.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> But don't you have to watch them in the garden at all times anyway as if their prey drive is so high, they could easily get a cat that wanders in. Didn't they once throw a cat between each other that they had caught?


tbh whilst my dog is solid around cats, I own three cats. If he had a prey drive and he is in his own garden, other people's pets are not my responsibility. Whilst I would do everything possible "high fence" if god forbid it happened then sorry but I would not accept responsibility for the incident. I keep my pets in my own garden other people should do likewise, or accept the possible consequences including RTA. I wouldn't accept cat roam that's what they do, my three are indoor and have an outdoor pen they gain access to from the kitchen window.

You can't watch a dog 24/7, there are times when I let Duke out and I watch him like a hawk as soon as he cocks his leg I need to go for a wee.


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

Surely if hegehogs dig down to make burrows/homes and to hibenate then it can dig out under a fence if it wants to it might already have a way out.If i moved it i would be really worried about it being in another hogs territory and getting hurt in a fight or not being able to get enough food i would try and make a hog house and put it the other side of the garden and if you are lucky then problem solved except when it patrols its domain


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes, but it is no ones fault what breed we choose, especially neighbours and they shouldn't have to change what they want to do because of a dogs prey drive.
> 
> I have dogs with low prey drive, yes, because I couldn't handle a dog with a large one and if you cannot deal with it you shouldn't choose a breed with one.


No ones saying that neighbours have to change what the want to do. My neighbours have cats, they haven't come to harm in 20 years, they have had small domestic animals in cages and runs and they haven't come to any harm.

Its one bloody hedgehog, that's causing problems that's all. Maybe Malmum should have just posted and said shes not bothered about the hedgehog and if they kill they kill it instead too bad would have probably caused a lot less grief and people getting on their high horses.

ETA my nan used to have and breed wired hair fox terriers years and years ago, and I remember her telling me that they were devils for going after hedgehogs and getting covered in fleas. So its not just my and Malmums breeds that are a problem anyway with small critters that will catch, play with and even kill them.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If your neighbour loves the hedgehog I'm sure a house, as suggested, for it where it was safer would be the best option. If she sees it as a slug killer then offer to buy her slug pellets. As you have a good relationship I'm sure you can sort something out by talking to her.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Right, so here goes:

Had a word with my neighbour this morning and she is happy for me to move the hog. She said she was worried about the slug pellets she uses too and in her words: 'As long as your lovely dogs happy so am I' Bless.  She loves my dogs and none of the neighbours have any problem with them, they are very well liked around here - thankfully!
So that's good.

I have put the logs in place as such, for the time being:









Although it won't stop him lying in wait! 









Yes, these gardens are like 'Fort Knox' the only wooden fence is mounted on concrete gravel boards and the rest is brick wall.








I'm pretty sure I know what our gardens are like, having lived here for thirty years! So thanks for your apparent physchic ability *lennythecloud* - but it was shite! How much money were you prepared to 'bet' too, cos I could do with it actually!

I e mailed Mrs Tiggywinkles this morning too, as hogwatch haven't got back to me yet. They replied almost immediately with this:
*
Hi Freda,

If you are positive that it definitely has not bred (as a smaller hedgehog could potentially have got in to the garden under the gate) then moving it to another garden, where it would have access in and out would definitely be best, as they do like to have access to much larger areas than just one garden. However, it is the middle of breeding/baby season, so if this is a nursing mother, then disturbing the nest could cause her to kill or abandon her babies.

Gardens are better release sites than a park, as they find food and nest sites in the flower beds, shrubs and boarders and this would be their natural habitat, rather than park land.

If you have another close neighbour without such an enclosed garden (just needs a few small access points - like a hedge boarder, or an open barred fence), then this would be a good place for a release. I would suggest if you can pick it up (with gardening gloves) and move it at dusk, as this would be their natural time to be up and about, rather than in the heat of the day.

Good luck with this little one.

Kind Regards,

Helen

Education & Communications Officer

Home Page*
Thanks for those links MollySmith :thumbsup:

So it's actually *better* for this hog to be moved  as long as I discreetly check there are no babies in the nest, which of course I will do. Thank the Lord I contacted the experts and didn't just listen to the drivel of some biased opinions on here. My neighbours daughter lives across the road, has a huge garden and only cats - she also has a raised gate so the hog can come and go as she pleases. Just going to ask if I can put her/him there. I'm sure she won't mind because she feeds hogs too.

My son was quite amused by some of the replies and said:
'Five dogs? On long lines? In their own garden? And these are dogs lovers you say?'

Yep, I totally agree, would never have thought the welfare of one hedgehog would be put over and above that of five dogs in their own home. Still, not much surprises me on here at times TBH!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> I would say control the dogs.


Thank you - now why on earth didn't I think of that!!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad Tiggywinkles have given you sound advice of what you need to relocate correctly. I think its best alround and that goes for the welfare of the hedgehog in the long run too.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I would explain your concerns to your neighbour. Also, as you mention that the hedgehog is 'stuck', is it even comfy there?

Hopefully your neighbour will understand your worries and together you can decide on something that is kind and comfortable for both the hedgehog and your dogs 

EDITED TO ADD

- just read the whole thread, your neighbour sounds really lovely  If the little hedgehog can live in her daughter's garden that sounds like a pretty good result 

I wonder if non dog owners will ever read this thread? They'll probably conclude we're all nuts


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

a nice outcome for all involved


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

I would be very interested to hear what the email you sent them said.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

You're welcome Malmum

I think that not being a hedgehog expert myself, I just think it's worth asking people that _do_know, like Tiggywinkles 

Well, we all learned something today.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

something ridiculous said:


> I would be very interested to hear what the email you sent them said.


Ah it was probably 'I've got this bar steward hedgehog making my effin life a misery, I'm going to Blummin shoot the evil, prickly waste of life if you don't tell me I can move it. I'll give you a tenner if you write me a plausible reply for a forum. Or I'll send my five dogs to your wretched Beatrix Potter hospital for a game of prickly football.'


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I'm pretty sure I know what our gardens are like, having lived here for thirty years! So thanks for your apparent physchic ability *lennythecloud* - but it was shite! How much money were you prepared to 'bet' too, cos I could do with it actually!


I've personally seen a hedgehog scale a wall, of at least 4ft, with ease in pursuit of a cat.

Excuse me for making a judgement based on what was put in front of me, namely that you were prepared to dump this poor creature in a park and lie to your neighbour about your motivation to give yourself the best chance of going through with it. You want the hog gone purely because you cannot/will not control your dogs in this situation, I don't believe any story about it being 'for it's own good' - if you cared about that you would have moved it before now.



Malmum said:


> long as I discreetly check there are no babies in the nest, *which of course I will do*.


Interesting statement from someone so 100% certain that this hog is trapped and cannot breed 



Malmum said:


> My son was quite amused by some of the replies and said:
> 'Five dogs? On long lines? In their own garden? And these are dogs lovers you say?'
> 
> Yep, I totally agree, would never have thought the welfare of one hedgehog would be put over and above that of five dogs in their own home. Still, not much surprises me on here at times TBH!


Out of interest what would you have done if either your neighbour or tiggywinkles had said not to move it? Do it anyway?

I will admit that in the grand scheme of things that moving this hedgehog is not crime of the century, personally I just thought your attitude to the whole thing came across as a bit poor...


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

something ridiculous said:


> I would be very interested to hear what the email you sent them said.


And why? Would you like my dress, bra and shoe size too? 

Although my e mails are my business (nosey) on this occasion I will share:

*Hi,

I have a bit of a dilemma with a hedgehog in my neighbours garden. She is a friend of mine so there is no annimosity between us, the problem is not an unfriendly one but last year a young hedgehog entered her garden and hibernated there through the winter. It got in by going under her side gate and is now too big to get out the same way. There is no other means of exit and it stays in her 25ft x 25ft garden, most likely because it doesn't have a choice. That is a concern to me but also a bigger concern is the fixation my three Malamute dogs have with it. It has made it's 'bed' right against my fence and Malamutes having a very high prey drive as they do, have killed hedgehogs - not mine but others I know of. My dogs are forever trying to dig and 'punch' holes in the fence to get at this hog and I'm worried that if they make a hole which I don't see (have repaired a few already) the hog may wander in and get killed. Also it's causing fights between my dogs now too.

Should I take it and re locate it somewhere else and if so where is it best put? I live surrounded by fields and farm land but I don't want to put it on farm land due to mechanical vehicles perhaps getting it caught up and being killed. I also have a huge park just opporsite which has lots of under growth, so wondered if there would be better. There are quite a few hedgehogs around here (******, Essex) and I think it should not be isolated in the way that it is and likely cannot breed either where it is at the moment. I wouldn't be so concerned if it could get out and I'm sure my dogs wouldn't be as fixated as they are if it wasn't for the fact that they hear it constantly digging at the fence.

My neighbour isn't bothered what I do as she is 89 and doesn't ever see it, so she won't mind either way but am I being cruel to move it or is it crueller to keep it in captivation, as it can't mix with it's own kind.

Any advice will be much appreciated as I'm fearing for it's life and I can't let my dogs out together because their very high prey drive is causing fights amongst them and at 60kgs each it's not a nice situation to be in at all.

Kind regards,
Freda
Freda.*

FYI response from facebook Mal group (names removed)

****** ***** The ppl that r giving u stick need to gt realistic. I have two terriers and under no circumstances could i teach them to leeve a small animal like that, its part of their nature and their prey drive is just to high! If i wos u i would relocate it before like u said any damage is done! Xx
11 minutes ago via mobile · Like
**** **** If it was me I'd move the hedgehog then everyone's happy
Your happy the dogs are happy and the hedgehogs probably will be happier as its not dinner and scared xx
10 minutes ago via mobile · Like
**** **** P.s take no notice of people telling you to leave it and train your dogs it's the breed which they obviously don't understand xx
9 minutes ago via mobile · Like
***** ****** Leave the dog forum! Find one with people who actually HAVE brains... I used to be on loads and slowly left them all because of the EEJITS you come across! Have actually just rediscovered champdogs today and have gone on to post because as a rule they all seem fairly knowledgable folks with brains rather than the usual!!
8 minutes ago · Like · 1
***** ******* I have moved a few hedgehogs, Max actually had a couple in his mouth, I managed to get them out. I would definitely move it especially if it would be in a better environment. I would say the hedgehog is as stressed as your dogs as it can hear your dogs...See More
6 minutes ago · Like
***** ***** Move it, my oldest mal has got 2 hedgehogs when I've Been out walking her on a night and I didn't see them in time. She just kept throwing them in the the air and I'm sure would have killed them if I hadnt pulled her off. Best off moving it, and people who think you can train the mal otherwise are fools.

Malamute Matters (group) - if you don't believe me 'something ridiculous' - just posted and should've asked there in the first place!  Many more replies but all basically the same!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Jobeth said:


> If your neighbour loves the hedgehog I'm sure a house, as suggested, for it where it was safer would be the best option. If she sees it as a slug killer then offer to buy her slug pellets. As you have a good relationship I'm sure you can sort something out by talking to her.


No, no, no please don't slug pellets kill our garden birds and hedgehogs. If you want to get rid of slugs and snails get a beer trap, encourage thrushes and blackbirds into your garden to eat them, put sharp gravel or eggshells around your plants.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

lennythecloud said:


> I've personally seen a hedgehog scale a wall, of at least 4ft, with ease in pursuit of a cat.


OMG!! now Im worried....do they hunt cats to eat or just for sport??
and was it a specially trained agility hedgehog or can they all climb like spider monkeys!?:lol:

aaaaaaaanyway...phew Malmum!! sounds like a really good solution to me! You can have happy, stress free pooches and happy, safe hog now! 
I dont think I would have trusted that the dogs either wouldnt get into next door or dig a big enough hole that the hedgehog could get into my garden.
Playing it safe is def the way to go IMO. I learnt that the hard way after next doors JRT killed one of my bunnies who should of been safe free ranging in my garden behind a secure, high fence. (I didnt know that next door had piled furniture againest the fence so the dog could climb right in!). Nasty surprises do happen sadly...


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Sounds a perfect solution well done Malmum


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> OMG!! now Im worried....do they hunt cats to eat or just for sport??
> and was it a specially trained agility hedgehog or can they all climb like spider monkeys!?:lol:
> 
> aaaaaaaanyway...phew Malmum!! sounds like a really good solution to me! You can have happy, stress free pooches and happy, safe hog now!
> ...


Poor bunny - must have been terrible to see. 

I think lennythecloud is talking about the 'industrious hedgehog' you know the ones that carry pneumatic drills to get through concrete and have safety lines and hard hats to scour walls. God they can be sneaky little blighters!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Although it won't stop him lying in wait! 







http://i40.tinypic.com/2r4mtxv.jpg

[/QUOTE]

I think the sun is getting to me I looked at that picture and thought why is she posting pictures of a fluffed up chicken in a border


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Malmum said:


> And why? Would you like my dress, bra and shoe size too?
> 
> Although my e mails are my business (nosey) on this occasion I will share:
> 
> Malamute Matters (group) - if you don't believe me 'something ridiculous' - just posted and should've asked there in the first place!  Many more replies but all basically the same!


Why would I not believe you. (A little paranoid me thinks). Yes well done, you have found others that can't be bothered to train their dogs and therefore agree with you! Keep your dogs under control - other people manage.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Had a hedgehog in our front garden a while back, poor dogs got the shock of their lives :lol: :lol: think it must have been a bit stinky for my two, they wouldn't go near


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Once you move the hedgehog, what are you going to do with the next interesting animal that gets your dog's attention? 

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but I have dogs who will happily kill anything small and furry (and not so small). While not exactly an easy task, it is easier to my mind to train and manage the dogs than to try to control all the wildlife around us.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

I think all the people in this thread have sadly been affected by the heat. I'm off down the beach to cool off in the sea. Who's with me ?

ETA: Look.. I just made VIP.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Love what the facebook peopke had to say!!

So they are saying people whose dogs are under control are idiots.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Picklelily said:


> Although it won't stop him lying in wait!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the sun is getting to me I looked at that picture and thought why is she posting pictures of a fluffed up chicken in a border [/QUOTE]

Thanks! now I think that a dogs bottom looks like a chicken too!!

To all the people who say to just train the dogs not to kill, Im curious....I take it you dont believe in unpredictable prey drives of northern breeds and would happily walk them off lead in public??
Admittedly I only have Chihuahuas but I thought it was common knowledge that you couldnt train these responses out of breeds like this with any certainty....


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Love what the facebook peopke had to say!!
> 
> So they are saying people whose dogs are under control are idiots.


No just if you don't know Mals, don't talk s**t!!

Hmm ..... That's a point! What'll I do the next time one goes in next doors garden? NOTHING! The same as I've done for the past THIRTY YEARS of living next door, or perhaps be totally inhumane and MOVE IT - now that I know how to do it properly!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> To all the people who say to just train the dogs not to kill, Im curious....I take it you dont believe in unpredictable prey drives of northern breeds and would happily walk them off lead in public??
> Admittedly I only have Chihuahuas but I thought it was common knowledge that you couldnt train these responses out of breeds like this with any certainty....


Only when the poster suits I'm afraid.  Plenty have had stick for not keeping high prey driven dogs on lead - many many threads.

Never mind, there's always eggs they can go suck!


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Malmum said:


> No just if you don't know Mals, don't talk s**t!!


I've known many malamutes and assorted northern breeds, they were quite popular in Colorado where I lived for many years. I lived with a Malamute for 2 years who belonged to my dear friend. He was born and bred in Alaska and lived his first years mostly wild with a bunch of roughnecks on survey crew. He was always rough around the edges, but with me he lived a perfectly normal dog life in a house and fenced yard and going for street walks and mountain hikes OFF LEAD (the horror).

Malamutes and northern breeds are not some special snowflake dog that no one except for experienced owners could possibly understand. They're dogs. Canis familiars, selected for millennia, just like every other dog, to work alongside of man.

They are just as trainable as any other breed, yes, their motivators are different than a lab, their breed traits are different than a bloodhound, but at the end of the day they're dogs who can be trained and managed just like any other.

I suppose now I'll be informed that UK malamutes are different than US malamutes LOL.


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## x clo x (Feb 24, 2012)

if shes stopping the hedgehog getting out itself, i would move it. 1)its not fair on the hedgehog 2)its definitely not fair on your dogs. 3)hedgehog could potentially get eaten if one of the dogs got it, so tell her its for its safety!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I've not read all the pages but did you move the hedgehog in the end?

I'm always cautious of moving any hog incase it's a mum with a nest.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> OMG!! now Im worried....do they hunt cats to eat or just for sport??
> and was it a specially trained agility hedgehog or can they all climb like spider monkeys!?:lol:
> 
> aaaaaaaanyway...phew Malmum!! sounds like a really good solution to me! You can have happy, stress free pooches and happy, safe hog now!
> ...


I thought the same too tbh, supposing it was some type of mutant nija hedgehog like the Mutant Ninja turtles, Poor Flynn and co could have been at great risk.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Malmum I think you're being reasonable, there's no harm in talking to your neighbour at all. Have to say I'm very surprised at the venom with which some posters have replied to you, very rude indeed I think.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Because unlike some who have never owned and lived with the breed, we are not so arrogant as to believe we are such perfect trainers and dog owners that training will wipe out all natural instincts and drives 100% of the time. or so far up our own a***s and condescending we are virtually inside out.

But then obviously some know better then a lot of the breed clubs and owners of the breeds. Must be so wonderful to be perfect and right all the time!!


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Because unlike some who have never owned and lived with the breed, we are not so arrogant as to believe we are such perfect trainers and dog owners that training will wipe out all natural instincts and drives 100% of the time. or so far up our own a***s and condescending we are virtually inside out.
> 
> But then obviously some know better then a lot of the breed clubs and owners of the breeds. Must be so wonderful to be perfect and right all the time!!


How is this attitude not arrogant though?
"My breed is so special and unique, no one but the experts could possibly understand it, and certainly no mere mortal owner of a non-mal could understand."

It's different sides of the same arrogant coin.

And besides, I said training AND management. No, not everything can be trained out, and no trainer worth their salt would attempt to train OUT instincts anyway. You channel them.

It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Firstly I forgot you are all psychic and know exactly what experience we have and with which breeds.
Secondly, nobody has mentioned that you can get them to wipe out natural instincts 100% of the time. It can however be worked on.
When you get to the point that your dogs are jumping fences and having regular fights, something has to be done, and should have been done sooner.
The OP needs to control her dogs and work with them on these instincts, not just say it's a breed trait so I won't bother. 
I just hope that the poor little hedgehog survives it's ridiculous ordeal of being moved.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Malmum said:


> No just if you don't know Mals, don't talk s**t!!


I didn't talk s**t about mals, but surely they can be restrained with a longline or the fence can be blocked.


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh crumbs, and it's such a lovely day too.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ouesi said:


> How is this attitude not arrogant though?
> "My breed is so special and unique, no one but the experts could possibly understand it, and certainly no mere mortal owner of a non-mal could understand."
> 
> It's different sides of the same arrogant coin.
> ...


Why do you think there is so many Siberians and Malamutes in rescue? Because people like yourself, think they can train them to do things and don't believe half of what the breed clubs, breeders and owners tell them that's why it happens a lot of the time. People still let them off, expect them to live with cats and don't supervise, or have adequate security and then they get out, or kill something.

You have a Labrador I believe a gun dog who will bring back ducks rabbits and small furries and give them up. Why do you think that you don't see Malamutes and Siberian huskies, trained to round up sheep and used for retrieving game.

All mine were trained as pups from 1st off. Nanuq especially did obedience training for two years and was about to go in the advanced class until she started seizuring and I stopped taking her. Both my Malamute and my Malamute and sibe/mal cross will sit wait, be released retrieve a toy or similar drop/leave it and sit and wait again for it to be thrown until released. Yet when they got a pidgeon and managed to find a dead squirrel, drops, leaves, ham cheese no amount of high value swops would make them release it. In the case of the pidgeon it was eaten.

My dogs are trained, Ive had the breed/s for over 20 years. So don't sit there and condecensingly tell me.

*
It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....*

What do you think Ive been freakin well doing for the last 20 odd years.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> I didn't talk s**t about mals, but surely they can be restrained with a longline or the fence can be blocked.


If you want to be end of the long line with 60Kgs of dog used for pulling heavy loads for over long distances or wrestling one away from a furry critter instincts telling them to catch and kill be my guest.

They have got teeth they can acutally chew very rapidly through a long line if they get the inclination.

Like Malmum for 20 years and in her case 30 fences have contained them as its usually adequate. Put a creeping critter immediately on the other side, fence or no fence they can smell and hear it.


----------



## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Sled dog hotel - nobody has said that you can't control your dogs. It sounds like you have at least put a little effort in. This can be worked on with Mals.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Malamutes and northern breeds are not some special snowflake dog that no one except for experienced owners could possibly understand. They're dogs. Canis familiars, selected for millennia, just like every other dog, to work alongside of man.
> They are just as trainable as any other breed, yes, their motivators are different than a lab, their breed traits are different than a bloodhound, but at the end of the day they're dogs who can be trained and managed just like any other.
> I suppose now I'll be informed that UK malamutes are different than US malamutes LOL.


and you dont think that you are being ridiculously simplistic? What about dogs that attack other animals from predatory drift? Personally Id rather someone keep their Mal on lead outside then have it kill one of my Chihuahuas whilst off lead and be told 'well, he's never done that before!'



something ridiculous said:


> When you get to the point that your dogs are jumping fences and having regular fights, something has to be done, and should have been done sooner.
> The OP needs to control her dogs and work with them on these instincts, not just say it's a breed trait so I won't bother.


I do sympathise with Malmum on this one as my dogs do suffer from redirected aggression at times and cats or other animals over the fence can cause some handbag moments out of frustration. It can be difficult ot manage such a heighten response to an unpredictable stimulus.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

something ridiculous said:


> Sled dog hotel - nobody has said that you can't control your dogs.* It sounds like you have at least put a little effort in. This can be worked on with Mals. *


Id call obedience training classes for 2 years and daily ongoing training over more then 20 years getting to the standard I have more then a little effort. Don't you think if it could totally be trained out of them and you could do it 100% I would have managed it by now!! Or I haven't been doing ouesis bright idea she come up with. Maybe Im just a s**t trainer then and obviously are not as good as the know all perfect trainers on the forum.
*
It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....
*

Shes got a piggin Labrador and why do they use Labradors for retrieving dead game and Not Malamutes and Siberians or for rounding up sheep. Beacause they would friggin well kill and eat them that's why.

So to all the patronising know it alls go shove it up your a***s.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you want to be end of the long line with 60Kgs of dog used for pulling heavy loads for over long distances or wrestling one away from a furry critter instincts telling them to catch and kill be my guest.
> 
> They have got teeth they can acutally chew very rapidly through a long line if they get the inclination.
> 
> Like Malmum for 20 years and in her case 30 fences have contained them as its usually adequate. Put a creeping critter immediately on the other side, fence or no fence they can smell and hear it.


Ok.

I'm just saying because of the breed of dog, you still cannot control what goes on on the other side of the fence.

Maybe this breed get frustrated in suburban life, compared to what they naturally want/need to do.

This thread is getting a bit too heated.


----------



## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Id call obedience training classes for 2 years and daily ongoing training over more then 20 years getting to the standard I have more then a little effort. Don't you think if it could totally be trained out of them and you could do it 100% I would have managed it by now!! Or I haven't been doing ouesis bright idea she come up with. Maybe Im just a s**t trainer then and obviously are not as good as the know all perfect trainers on the forum.
> *
> It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....
> *
> ...


Clearly you haven't actually read what I have posted!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Ok.
> 
> I'm just saying because of the breed of dog, you still cannot control what goes on on the other side of the fence.
> 
> ...


It only gets heated because in spite of trying to explain about the breed and the nature of the breed, no one listens which is so fraustrating because certain people think they know it all and haven't even owned or live with one and insist they are just a dog.

There was a study of 15 different breeds ranging from a CKC to a Siberian Husky just for example. Looking at paedomorphisis and atagonistic visual signs of domestic dogs comparing it to lupine behaviour. There were 15 signs,
The Siberian Husky had clearly all 15 coming out top, the CKC had two. So all breeds are are not the same and have exactly the same trainability and drives. That's why development of breeds happened in the first place most were breed for certain abilities and drives and functions. A Malamute or Siberian Huskie isn't used for guarding because they don't have the instincts in them. If you want to read the study its below.

http://members.home.nl/mfcjanssen/AnimBehav1997.pdf


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Lets face it none of us know each other and unless we have direct experience of the breed and situation involved its very presumptuous to rudely criticise.

I have had springers, collies, poodles and Rough collies all my life until I recently rehomed a schnauzer wire haired fox terrier cross the difference in that terrier behaviour has quite amazed me. I always knew the Rough Collie was a dream to own and train but I have now had it confirmed. I'm sure those who own Mals find them a dream to own because they value different breed traits to those I do, why would I criticise them for that?

Malmum has considered the neighbour, her dogs and the hedgehog and has come to a resolution that suits all. I really can't understand all this vitriolic criticism.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

What if this little old lady takes her final journey and the house is subsequently inhabited by a young family who choose to keep rabbits?


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

moonviolet said:


> What if this little old lady takes her final journey and the house is subsequently inhabited by a young family who choose to keep rabbits?


I was thinking heaven forbid a neighbour decided to keep chickens lol


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Id call obedience training classes for 2 years and daily ongoing training over more then 20 years getting to the standard I have more then a little effort. Don't you think if it could totally be trained out of them and you could do it 100% I would have managed it by now!! Or I haven't been doing ouesis bright idea she come up with. Maybe Im just a s**t trainer then and obviously are not as good as the know all perfect trainers on the forum.
> *
> It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....
> *
> ...


I thought Ouesi has Great Danes, and ones from really horrible backgrounds at that.


----------



## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Why do you think there is so many Siberians and Malamutes in rescue? Because people like yourself,


Wait? Now it's my fault there are northern breeds in rescue? Okie dokie then...



Sled dog hotel said:


> You have a Labrador I believe a gun dog who will bring back ducks rabbits and small furries and give them up.


Wow... you really do think you know it all don't you? 
1. I do not have a labrador. I have a mutt. A dog who came to me because he was KILLING chickens, rabbits, and other small furries as well as chasing horses despite getting his teeth knocked out for his troubles. 
A labrador gun dog who will bring furries back and give them up? You really gave me a chuckle there 
My other dogs are great danes, and my recently passed dog was a SIBE mix who lived his entire life on these 20 acres - off lead. Yes, yes, I know... it's his non-sibe side I'm sure 



Sled dog hotel said:


> Why do you think that you don't see Malamutes and Siberian huskies, trained to round up sheep and used for retrieving game.


That's not what I said  You can't train OUT instincts, nor can you train them in. But you can manage and train behaviors.



Sled dog hotel said:


> All mine were trained as pups from 1st off. Nanuq especially did obedience training for two years and was about to go in the advanced class until she started seizuring and I stopped taking her. Both my Malamute and my Malamute and sibe/mal cross will sit wait, be released retrieve a toy or similar drop/leave it and sit and wait again for it to be thrown until released. Yet when they got a pidgeon and managed to find a dead squirrel, drops, leaves, ham cheese no amount of high value swops would make them release it. In the case of the pidgeon it was eaten.
> 
> My dogs are trained, Ive had the breed/s for over 20 years. So don't sit there and condecensingly tell me.
> 
> ...


I wasn't being condescending, I *thought* I was being helpful. I DO think it's easier to work with your dog than to try to control wildlife.
The above does not mean I think you or anyone else's dogs are out of control BTW, it's a general statement.

Basically what you're saying to me is that if *you* haven't been able to do something then no one can? And I'm being arrogant and condescending?

In all seriousness, I'm really not trying to argue here or make anyone feel badly, I'm truly trying to be helpful. Removing the hedgehog - to me - seems like a short term solution as I would assume if one hedgehog found it a nice place, plenty of other small furries might too. So the hedgehog leaves, and who comes in his place? Then what? That's all I was trying to convey  
Carry on all!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I was thinking heaven forbid a neighbour decided to keep chickens lol


Lol I actually has this in my last house. Bloody chickens one side, tiny dogs and I think guinea pigs the other side and rabbits behind. And sheep very close by too. Fun times with Rupert Bear who saw it as an all you can eat buffet


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> It only gets heated because in spite of trying to explain about the breed and the nature of the breed, no one listens which is so fraustrating because certain people think they know it all and haven't even owned or live with one and insist they are just a dog.
> 
> There was a study of 15 different breeds ranging from a CKC to a Siberian Husky just for example. Looking at paedomorphisis and atagonistic visual signs of domestic dogs comparing it to lupine behaviour. There were 15 signs,
> The Siberian Husky had clearly all 15 coming out top, the CKC had two. So all breeds are are not the same and have exactly the same trainability and drives. That's why development of breeds happened in the first place most were breed for certain abilities and drives and functions. A Malamute or Siberian Huskie isn't used for guarding because they don't have the instincts in them. If you want to read the study its below.
> ...


I don't think everyone was saying that. But they must be able to be controlled in one way or another, otherwise how would people own them.

My only objection was/is that you cannot tell next door how to live because of your own dogs behaviour, regardless of breed it's not fair.

People are entitled to keep hedgehogs or rabbits in their garden as Malmum is entitled to keep her dogs.


----------



## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Id call obedience training classes for 2 years and daily ongoing training over more then 20 years getting to the standard I have more then a little effort. Don't you think if it could totally be trained out of them and you could do it 100% I would have managed it by now!! Or I haven't been doing ouesis bright idea she come up with. Maybe Im just a s**t trainer then and obviously are not as good as the know all perfect trainers on the forum.
> *
> It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....
> *
> ...


You've taken something personally that was never meant to be personal. You're wrong about my dogs and you're wrong about me.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't think everyone was saying that. But they must be able to be controlled in one way or another, otherwise how would people own them.
> 
> *My only objection was/is that you cannot tell next door how to live because of your own dogs behaviour, regardless of breed it's not fair.*
> 
> People are entitled to keep hedgehogs or rabbits in their garden as Malmum is entitled to keep her dogs.


This entirely this!

Last autumn a bunny moved in next door. I saw the fact that Tink was highly interested in this new fragrance as my problem to deal with.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Firstly they are *NOT* having regular fights, Bruce (not a Mal) - attacked Marty *ONCE* and a fight ensued. They are also* NOT* jumping over fences to fight, where do you get these things from? However I can tell by present body language (clever eh?) in the Mals that they are being possessive of this hog and a fight would *probably* be the next reaction. For that reason they are not allowed out in pairs in either of my one of two back gardens.

Secondly I have been told by the *CORRECT* authority on hedgehogs that re locating would be a good idea, for all of the animals safety.

Thirdly if anyone thinks I am going to tie my dogs up in their own garden, when unlike all of yours they are not even allowed off lead when on walks you need your head testing and also your views to animal cruelty and the animal welfare act looked at. Tying up any dog is wrong but to tie one up in it's own garden is simply out of order, especially when there is a more humane solution for all concerned. To tie them up would create even more stress and in these hot climes likely end up with a trip to the vets.

Fourthly you *ALL* have no idea of the implications in caring for a dog that has had two total hip replacements -* none at all*. So consider that if nothing else, I do know what damage can be done by fence jumping, there is no way I am going to put a wild creature before my dogs safety and there is no way anyone should need to comment on the releasing of the hog - not when expert input has been given and posted as such.

Further e mail from Helen, which I suggest you *digest this time*, as she is *'on side'* with the move - either now or later if babes are in the nest.

*Hi Freda,

Yes, sounds like that would be the best plan. The local garden with access in and out would be ideal. If she wants to encourage the hedgehog to keep coming back, then putting out a dish of dog food just before you release it would be great. Then she could put out fresh dog food and water each evening at dusk, if wanted.

The nest would be where her babies would be, if she has any. Obviously it would be really important not to handle the babies, so if you wear gloves and really gently move the top of the nest as little as possible to see inside, just in case a male has managed to get into this enclosed garden. Hopefully the adult hedgehog will be alone (and may even be a male anyway), in which case it can be moved a few doors away. If it had got babies, then leave it at least 8 weeks before attempting to move the adult, by which point the babies should have all left home.

Good luck with it!

Kind Regards,

Helen

Education & Communications Officer

Home Page*

Carry on with your 'pipe and slippers' dogs and never take on a challenging breed because you obviously wouldn't know what hit you. Trainers, you too carry on pretending to know what you're talking about, because you clearly, clearly do not have the experience with this breed you pertain to, I KNOW Mal trainers and I KNOW they would all agree they are by no means 'your average dog'!

Thank you for all the positive comments, this thread started by asking advice on what to do for *the hog* - nothing was asked about how I should treat my dogs on my OWN property!* That is for me to decide and you to butt completely out of!*


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Why do you think there is so many Siberians and Malamutes in rescue? Because people like yourself, think they can train them to do things and don't believe half of what the breed clubs, breeders and owners tell them that's why it happens a lot of the time. People still let them off, expect them to live with cats and don't supervise, or have adequate security and then they get out, or kill something.
> 
> You have a Labrador I believe a gun dog who will bring back ducks rabbits and small furries and give them up. Why do you think that you don't see *Malamutes and Siberian huskies, trained to round up sheep* and used for retrieving game.
> 
> ...


I believe there is a breeder who uses Mals on sheep... I think Malmum has posted the link before...


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't think everyone was saying that. But they must be able to be controlled in one way or another, otherwise how would people own them.
> 
> My only objection was/is that you cannot tell next door how to live because of your own dogs behaviour, regardless of breed it's not fair.
> 
> People are entitled to keep hedgehogs or rabbits in their garden as Malmum is entitled to keep her dogs.





moonviolet said:


> This entirely this!
> 
> Last autumn a bunny moved in next door. I saw the fact that Tink was highly interested in this new fragrance as my problem to deal with.


I agree with this too, I don't really see how anyone can have a say in what their neighbours do in their own back gardens, or what pets they choose to keep.

We had major issues with the Pickles when some starlings nested in our neighbours roof, which was right outside our back door, it drove the Pickles (and me) mad but I just realised that it was my job to try and desensitise them to the starlings, not insist that the neighbours evict them!


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


WOW! Pretty rude and uncalled for!

Seems to me that several people on this thread need to wind their necks in a bit!

Don't bother responding to my last post in the same manner as you just responded to Moonviolets thanks!


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


Are you admitting you are unable to adequately control your dogs?


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

If Hedgehogs can dig it would probably make a gap under the gravel board if stuck in garden, the concrete boards usually just sit on the ground rather than being sunk so it wouldn't have to excavate much. I would try giving it a new hog home away from the fence,surprised lady needs to use slug pellets with a hedgehog about.

Hattie used to go mental at a neighbours dog that would bark at us so I had to put up an inner wire fence to stop her launching up the panel fence to try get it. Thankfully they've moved now but can't do much about the multiple cats & squirrel that pass through.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


Wow, just wow.
Nasty, just plain nasty and completely uncalled for.


----------



## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


Surely we can have this conversation without being insulting to each other?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Oh my word :yikes: :yikes:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


How very rude....


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


How low a reply can you get?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Carry on with your 'pipe and slippers' dogs and never take on a challenging breed because you obviously wouldn't know what hit you.
> ]


If this is aimed towards me then it's just silly.

I know my restrictions. I couldn't walk a dog with that much pull and power, nothing about a challenge, why would people get dogs that don't suit their lifestyle or living quarters?


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Surely we can have this conversation without being insulting to each other?


clearly not.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> Wow, just wow.
> Nasty, just plain nasty and completely uncalled for.


I always thought beagles quite the challenge anyway!!


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Wait? Now it's my fault there are northern breeds in rescue? Okie dokie then...
> 
> Wow... you really do think you know it all don't you?
> 1. I do not have a labrador. I have a mutt. A dog who came to me because he was KILLING chickens, rabbits, and other small furries as well as chasing horses despite getting his teeth knocked out for his troubles.
> ...


Well Im just wrong then Ousei obviously along with all the other Sibe and Malamute owners, breeders and all the breed clubs.

No I don't know it all, Never said I did but I know my breeds.

When someone has a pop back though it sure brings out your sarky side that's for sure. But of course your never concending just helpful.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

There is absolutely no need to ridicule and belittle someone elses achievements with their dog(s). I'm sorry but that is disgusting behaviour.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Isn't every breed challenging in it's own way?


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I always thought beagles quite the challenge anyway!!


Apparently not! We all have no idea whatsoever, apparently. I'll go and take my "tiny" ONE dog out now, safe in the knowledge he is under control completely and not a risk to other people and their small furries. :dita:


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Maybe this original question should of jus been asked on a Mal forum? 

Don't see how us non Mal 'little dog' owners especially those with 'only one' could ever have enough knowledge to be able to answer to such a thread. 



How truly pathetic.

Hope the hedgehog likes its new home and doesn't try to cross any roads etc to go back to its old home.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow, that was pretty disgraceful and pathetic.
Perhaps Siberians/Malamutes shouldn't be kept as pets if their prey drive is so strong.


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Wow. 

I don't see how having 1 dog or 10 dogs, of a big breed or little breed makes your advice any less important.:001_unsure:

I suppose I don't know since I only have 4 little dogs.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Well Im just wrong then Ousei obviously along with all the other Sibe and Malamute owners, breeders and all the breed clubs.
> 
> No I don't know it all, Never said I did but I know my breeds.
> 
> When someone has a pop back though it sure brings out your sarky side that's for sure. But of course your never concending just helpful.


That's the thing though. I never had a pop at you. I simply shared my experience which includes experience with northern breeds including Malamutes.

I'm really scratching my head at the ugly turn this thread has taken. I don't get it. 
Why is it that no one's opinion is valid unless they have vast experience with a breed? That's just silly. We all have something to offer on this forum do we not?


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Gemmaa said:


> Wow, that was pretty disgraceful and pathetic.
> Perhaps Siberians/Malamutes shouldn't be kept as pets if their prey drive is so strong.


This is what I was thinking. If what is being said about them and their drives is correct then it really seems dangerous and irresponsible to keep them as a pet in an urban environment. OR it is actually possible to train and manage them adequately to keep other people and their pets that live around you safe. One or the other really.

I think the key is the "manage" word. Maybe you can't 100% train the killer instinct "out" of them , but if you can't manage those drives WITHOUT inconveniancing other people and having to control wildlife and what goes on in your neighbours gardens then they aren't a suitable dog for urban living.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I believe there is a breeder who uses Mals on sheep... I think Malmum has posted the link before...


Well considering this is the Uk registrations from 2003/2012 ones a pretty bad average

COMPARATIVE TABLES OF REGISTRATIONS FOR THE YEARS 2003- 2012 INCLUSIVE
WORKING 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
Alaskan Malamute 341 586 718 889 1,161 1,245 1,195 1,232 1,295 1,053


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Malmum said:


> this thread started by asking advice on what to do for *the hog*


Except it didn't, did it? It started by you asking for advice on what to do for *you* to remove the stress and to prevent your dogs from fighting. As has been pointed out, it is highly likely that the hedgehog could very easily move in and out of the garden and therefore there is no need to move it.
Your reply to MV was incredibly rude, she may "only" own a beagle (and, of course, they are born ready-trained ) but Mals are not the only breed of dog with a high prey drive, and so her experience IS relevant.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ouesi said:


> You've taken something personally that was never meant to be personal. You're wrong about my dogs and you're wrong about me.


Oh nothing you have said is personal is it of course not.



> It's not easy, but doesn't it make more sense to work with your dog than with the uncounted potential other distractions and obsessions that might appear in your bubble? I can't control wildlife, I can control my dog....


Or this



> Wow... you really do think you know it all don't you?
> 1. I do not have a labrador. I have a mutt. A dog who came to me because he was KILLING chickens, rabbits, and other small furries as well as chasing horses despite getting his teeth knocked out for his troubles.
> A labrador gun dog who will bring furries back and give them up? You really gave me a chuckle there
> My other dogs are great danes, and my recently passed dog was a SIBE mix who lived his entire life on these 20 acres - off lead. Yes, yes, I know... it's his non-sibe side I'm sure


----------



## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Dimwit said:


> Except it didn't, did it? It started by you asking for advice on what to do for *you* to remove the stress and to prevent your dogs from fighting. As has been pointed out, it is highly likely that the hedgehog could very easily move in and out of the garden and therefore there is no need to move it.
> Your reply to MV was incredibly rude, she may "only" own a beagle (and, of course, they are born ready-trained ) but Mals are not the only breed of dog with a high prey drive, and so her experience IS relevant.


As with so many threads on here....

"A real dilemma - any suggestions?"

*BUT* only if it's what I want to hear or what I have already decided to do!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Surely we can have this conversation without being insulting to each other?


Oh because your so perfect and lilly white and never get insulting or condescending, sometimes to new members asking for help.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Well considering this is the Uk registrations from 2003/2012 ones a pretty bad average
> 
> COMPARATIVE TABLES OF REGISTRATIONS FOR THE YEARS 2003- 2012 INCLUSIVE
> WORKING 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
> Alaskan Malamute 341 586 718 889 1,161 1,245 1,195 1,232 1,295 1,053


''Not Malamutes and Siberians or for rounding up sheep. Beacause they would friggin well kill and eat them that's why.''

The breeder/trainer shows it is possible though


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Oh because your so perfect and lilly white and never get insulting or condescending, sometimes to new members asking for help.


Sled dog, I am not sure if there has been something else that Ouesi has done to annoy you, but I don't think those comments were meant to be accusing or anything like that. I certainly didn't read them like that.
And I have only ever got to know you as a courteous, helpful member of the forum, so I really hope this is just a case of a bad misunderstanding.


----------



## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Oh nothing you have said is personal is it of course not.


I think you need to chill out.

You said I had a lab, I believe your words were "a piggin labrador" and since I don't have a lab, I corrected you. Yes, I guess that was personal. Sorry. In the future I will refer to my non-lab as a lab in order to not offend you.

This is really getting silly....
I'm dropping the tug rope


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Oh well bully for you - well done, with your ONE tiny little dog. Big fanfare on to you for that remarkable achievement!
> 
> Again, absolutely no comparison and no idea whatsoever!
> 
> Why don't you just go look at some other threads and keep your ridiculous comparisons to your tiny little self? They are moot points, to say the least!


wow and you are a fully grown adult?

why bother asking if you are going to throw your toys out of the pram when you don't like the reply you get and resort to petty insults.

you just wanted a simple solution to your problem with your dogs and are annoyed that people called you out on it being quite selfish the way you wanted to deal with it, then you changed to try to pretend like you gave a damn about the hedgehog, which you don't, you just wanted rid, the comments on managing the dogs are realistic because chances are there will be other small animals near them and the garden again.

this is the one thing that annoys me about this forum, people just post wanting to hear that they are right and when someone disagrees they throw a temper tantrum, it's almost laughable. the majority of people here are adults, lets start acting like it.

I'm glad you will only be moving the hedgehog a few gardens away where it will be safe, rather than the large park, it seems like good advice you received  although if the hedgehog decides to find it's way back to it's old home then I imagine the problems will continue.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Op- how could us mere mortals even begin to understand anything. 
I hate to burst your bubble but others do have experience of Mals, hip replacements, animals next door etc. 
You're not special!


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Oh because your so perfect and lilly white and never get insulting or condescending, sometimes to new members asking for help.


Oh come on! The wet shoe thing was funny!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

dandogman said:


> ''Not Malamutes and Siberians or for rounding up sheep. Beacause they would friggin well kill and eat them that's why.''
> 
> The breeder/trainer shows it is possible though


One whole malamute does not a breed make though

Which is what I have been trying to say, you have to look at breeds and characteristics and the behaviours as a whole. Occasionally you will perhaps get a few but it doesn't mean that because you have an odd one here and there that you are going to get every single dog in the breed to be able to do it.

Wasn't having a go at you by the way. It was only in answer to your question.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Oh come on! The wet shoe thing was funny!!


Yeah side splitting haven't a clue what your on about now for sure.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Oh nothing you have said is personal is it of course not.


I really can't see anything personal or directed at you in anything ouesi has posted  Just a difference of opinion.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Oh my giddy aunt! You go away have a little woohoo at the tennis and Crikey.

I can understand the reactions about managing dogs if the OP had gone off and moved the hedgehog without any consultation but she didn't. Good for the dog training squad with the control of Andy Murray's serve and the resolve of a centre court judge in controlling your dogs but with all due respect and as someone dictated too over my dog recently, has anyone actually seen this situation, met the hedgehog or seen the dogs? The OP in talking to the hospital has reached a compromise, a term I feel unfamiliar to PF sometimes.

Good grief get a grip, this place truly is as prickly as a hedgehog's back again. The experts are aware, which with all due respect, isn't anyone posting on here. Not me, not the OP and none of you. 

Petty, silly arguments on here run the risk of bans and putting people off what is an otherwise good place.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Dimwit said:


> Except it didn't, did it? It started by you asking for advice on what to do for *you* to remove the stress and to prevent your dogs from fighting. As has been pointed out, it is highly likely that the hedgehog could very easily move in and out of the garden and therefore there is no need to move it.
> Your reply to MV was incredibly rude, she may "only" own a beagle (and, of course, they are born ready-trained ) but Mals are not the only breed of dog with a high prey drive, and so her experience IS relevant.


*WRONG!!!!* The questions asked were about the hedgehog - *HENCE THE QUESTION MARKS!* The rest was simply saying what was happening and what I thought the dogs may be likely to do.
IE: - (Now look very carefully, cos you may miss it - again! )

Problem is:
My elderly neighbour likes her hedgehog, she says it keeps slugs at bay and I'd like it too if I were her. So now I don't know if she'd let me take it and put it over the park.
*What to do?* *(<clue there!**)*
*Do I*: *(<another!)* tell her that as an endangered species it has to be set free in order to breed, they're protected now*?*
*Or*: *(<oops, there goes another!)* take it when she isn't there and re locate it where it can be with its own kind*?*
*Or*: *(<oh blimey and another!)*Tell her the truth, that I'm worried about fights with the dogs, Flynn damaging his hips and that it should be set free*?*

Now please tell me *WHERE* in all of this I have specifically asked what to do about my dogs? Or did you simply assume that's what I meant in that last sentence, because sorry for *YOUR* mistake there.

*
Some may remember Bruce attacking Marty some months ago because of the hedgehog that has taken up residence in next doors garden and made its bed right up against my fence. I know where it sleeps and have seen it when I went to investigate why the dogs had that fight.

Well since then all the Mals are obsessed with it, I can't let two dogs out together in my side of the garden (my garden is divided so as I have two, due to separating Kali) because I pretty much know a fight will ensue. Flynn is now totally focused on nothing but this hedgehog once dusk arrives. He has broken a small hole in the fence where it lies and is digging trying to get to it. He jumped the separating fence the other day, which terrified me because of his hips and is constantly panting and pacing now. I can't put him in any other part of the garden due to him jumping again so he has to stay in the house or be over 'my side' which is driving him frantic.

Problem is:
My elderly neighbour likes her hedgehog, she says it keeps slugs at bay and I'd like it too if I were her. So now I don't know if she'd let me take it and put it over the park.
What to do?
Do I: tell her that as an endangered species it has to be set free in order to breed, they're protected now?
Or: take it when she isn't there and re locate it where it can be with its own kind?
Or: Tell her the truth, that I'm worried about fights with the dogs, Flynn damaging his hips and that it should be set free?

It went into her garden last year, got under her side gate but during hibernation has grown and now can't get out. The dogs are driving me nuts and now we have to be on our guard that we don't let Bruce and Marts wander over that side of the garden and Kali and Flynn can't go out together either. Flynn pants more at night because he's so obsessed with it than he doss in the day when the weather is scorching. I'm so fed up I could cry because I don't know what to do.

What would you do? (<now this is where I think you may have slipped an assumption in)

Sorry for the massively long post btw. *


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

lennythecloud said:


> I really can't see anything personal or directed at you in anything ouesi has posted  Just a difference of opinion.


What basically saying I don't know my own breed and don't know how to train or control them in spite of having them for 20 odd years and handling packs of 12 plus and working with countless others in rescue and welfare.

Sorry but after 20 years plus and seeing where the breeds have got to now through people not understanding them and listening to what they are told. Personally I think Im entitled to be a bit p****d off and protective.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Perhaps you should have asked the question on a hedgehog or elderly neighbour forum then


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Perhaps you should have asked the question on a hedgehog or elderly neighbour forum then


This made me :lol:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> Sled dog, I am not sure if there has been something else that Ouesi has done to annoy you, but I don't think those comments were meant to be accusing or anything like that. I certainly didn't read them like that.
> And I have only ever got to know you as a courteous, helpful member of the forum, so I really hope this is just a case of a bad misunderstanding.


Even Ive got limits!!


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Perhaps you should have asked the question on a hedgehog or elderly neighbour forum then





something ridiculous said:


> This made me :lol:


Sorry, not exactly helpful I know but this whole thread is making me :lol: it's beyond believable how some people are acting :nonod:


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Sorry, not exactly helpful I know but this whole thread is making me :lol: it's beyond believable how some people are acting :nonod:


Hedgehog is lurking and thinking 'yes'! Get me, fifteen minutes of fame.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> What basically saying I don't know my own breed and don't know how to train or control them in spite of having them for 20 odd years and handling packs of 12 plus and working with countless others in rescue and welfare.
> 
> Sorry but after 20 years plus and seeing where the breeds have got to now through people not understanding them and listening to what they are told. Personally I think Im entitled to be a bit p****d off and protective.


But that's just it, other people have experience of the breed and dogs in general and people are going to have different opinions. You probably have more experience of the breed than anyone else on this forum and your opinion is valuable but others are still entitled to express their opinion just as you are entitled to disagree with them.

What ouesi was not doing was attacking YOU or your dogs therefore there wasn't really anything personal about it.


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow  way to discredit all your posts in one easy step, there's absolutely no need to be so insulting and down right nasty to someone who made 1 helpful and valid post on the whole thread 

I don't get why someone will ask a question then throw a paddy because they don't get the responses they wanted  Surely the whole point of starting a thread is to get as many varied answers and ideas as possible so that you have lots of possible ways to resolve the issue. I don't think anyone was being personal about dogs not being trained, they are merely saying that you can't control how other people live their lives, if someone wants to have 10 free range bunnies in their garden next door to you then you (this is not aimed at anyone in particular because we'd all need to do it) must find a way of getting your dog/s to be able to live with it.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Have'nt read the whole thread - and dont wish to - surely other folk have better things to do than spend all day commenting here. Look at this weather 

I have a massive issue with folk interfering with wild animals, unless its injured. Wild animals are just that, wild and therefore should have the freedom to come and go as and when, where they chose. 

Its not your choice to decide the fate of the animal nor is it of your neighbour. 

Unless your neighbour has caged the animal or fenced it in with some makeshift pen I dont understand how she is keeping it against its will, so to speak.

Hedgehogs climb, dig and cover alot of ground. Although I understand that your in a difficult situation I dont see why a wild animal should be moved on to make your life easier? - With out meaning to come across with a bad manner, I ask who gives you the right to decided what happens to it?

& as for the comments from other posters, with regards to controlling your dogs what a load of rubbish. - I take it none of your dogs bark in the garden, chase a cat or bird on the fence. Jump fences or dig at times! Dogs are dogs and theres only so much you can do, controlling a dog on your property and out in public are two different things!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I believe there is a breeder who uses Mals on sheep... I think Malmum has posted the link before...


Yep, that's Terry - a great guy but you will see that he uses 'Pack Leadership' methods and flooding, reckons it's the best way with this breed and he certainly gets results. Not something I will do though, so I'll never have Mals like his - although he has offered to help in the past.
Home - Celticwolf Alaskan Malamutes

He's the only person in the UK to do this with Mals and from what I've seen on facebook, possibly Europe too. Wouldn't really know about that far afield though.

Wonder what the 'trainers' make of his methods - at least you can see it works and it's not just his say so!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I know it's hot and tempers get frayed in such conditions but can we stick to be civil to each other please.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Malmum is it Helen from St Tiggywinkles your incontact with or another authority? 

If its Helen from Tiggys I have worked with and shes knows her stuff


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> One whole malamute does not a breed make though
> 
> Which is what I have been trying to say, you have to look at breeds and characteristics and the behaviours as a whole. Occasionally you will perhaps get a few but it doesn't mean that because you have an odd one here and there that you are going to get every single dog in the breed to be able to do it.
> 
> Wasn't having a go at you by the way. It was only in answer to your question.


Yes I agree tbh, but it shows it *can* be done. Even if not in every circumstance, it may be possible. I don't know how many Mals he has trained to herd sheep tbh, so can't comment on the amount.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Yep, that's Terry - a great guy but you will see that he uses 'Pack Leadership' methods and flooding, reckons it's the best way with this breed and he certainly gets results. Not something I will do though, so I'll never have Mals like his - although he has offered to help in the past.
> Home - Celticwolf Alaskan Malamutes
> 
> He's the only person in the UK to do this with Mals and from what I've seen on facebook, possibly Europe too. Wouldn't really know about that far afield though.
> ...


Thanks for providing the link. Very interesting...


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## cat burglar (Jun 9, 2013)

*PLEASE READ THIS*
Firstly, I apologise that I havent had time to read all of the posts in these threads. Secondly, before even thinking about relocating a hedgehog which might be at risk of a dog attack, youd need to check that the hedgehog doesnt have babies waiting for it back in the nest. Also, pleeeeease do not relocate any hedgehog to an area where hedgehogs have not previously been recorded/sighted. There will be valid reasons why some areas do not support hedgehog populations, i.e. most parks are not suitable habitat, they are intensely manicured and used by too many people and their dogs to provide a safe haven for them, esp during vulnerable hoglet season. Hedgehogs should also not be released into areas where known badger setts are.

Up until last year, I ran a small hedgehog rescue/rehabilitation for 16 years. I sadly had to stop taking in these harmless and beautiful critters due to a family illness, but a vet nurse at my local vets has thankfully stepped in and taken over the care and rehabilitation for any needy hedghogs.

Hedgehogs have been around for a cool 15 million years , but data collected from PTES and BHPS over the last few years was sufficiently alarming for hedgehogs to be declared a priority conservation species in 2007.

*It is estimated our only prickly mammals in the UK could be extinct within a mere 15 years if this trend of decline continues .*

Hedgehogs are now included in the UK Biodiversity Plan, as a result of their significant alarming decline. Many areas in the UK are now completely devoid of hedgehogs. Those areas which are still fortunate to support hedgehog populations should be doing everything possible to protect them and help try and reverse this alarming decline.

See link below on ways to help these beautiful native critters:
Hedgehog Street


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

lennythecloud said:


> But that's just it, other people have experience of the breed and dogs in general and people are going to have different opinions. You probably have more experience of the breed than anyone else on this forum and your opinion is valuable but others are still entitled to express their opinion just as you are entitled to disagree with them.
> 
> What ouesi was not doing was attacking YOU or your dogs therefore there wasn't really anything personal about it.


I hadn't quoted any of Ouesis posts specifically then to one of my posts got this quoting mine so aimed personally.


> How is this attitude not arrogant though?
> "My breed is so special and unique, no one but the experts could possibly understand it, and certainly no mere mortal owner of a non-mal could understand."
> 
> It's different sides of the same arrogant coin.
> ...


Sorry but that reads to me as its quoting my post that Im arrogant, don't know what Im talking about, and implying I don't train my dogs, and she can control hers but I cant.

Then I got this:-



> Wow... you really do think you know it all don't you?
> 1. I do not have a labrador. I have a mutt. A dog who came to me because he was KILLING chickens, rabbits, and other small furries as well as chasing horses despite getting his teeth knocked out for his troubles.
> A labrador gun dog who will bring furries back and give them up? You really gave me a chuckle there
> My other dogs are great danes, and my recently passed dog was a SIBE mix who lived his entire life on these 20 acres - off lead. Yes, yes, I know... it's his non-sibe side I'm sure


Now tell me your wouldn't get P***ed off.


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## laurahair (Apr 21, 2011)

I strongly suspect that the op got a bit miffed at being attacked when she was asking for advice, regardless of whether something is intended to be personal or not we would all do well to remember that on a forum you can miss the true intent of something quite easily. I don't think one stroppy reply negates the whole thread either.
Not sure why we can't all be more mature about it-I'm going to put it down to the weather 
OP I'm glad you got some expert advice and can sort the problem without upsetting your neighbour, damaging any of your dogs or the hedgehog. fwiw-I would be inclined to want to relax in my own garden too, as another owner of a dog who cannot ever go offlead I love to see her jumping around and playing with toys in the garden, I cannot see how longlines were ever going to be a solution to your problem? But everyone is entitled to an opinion, as I'm sure you realised when you posted


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Woooah, read this, this mornin and it was all "Hedgehog removed yaay!" and I come back and the sh*t has hit the fan.

I mean like, christ, how low can you go? Some of us do understand you know? Some of us have gardens with poor fencing and has sighthounds ( I know, not special snowflake mals but hey ho) that believe it or not can be contained on a longline around small furries! 

Wow, I'm really really really disgusted at you.


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## cat burglar (Jun 9, 2013)

*Please* could you all just take a minute of your time to read my post #150 on Page 15 xx


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

the situation was resolved amicably and in the right way, cant beleive this is still going


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

This can be a strange place at times....

Malmum has tried to do everything as far as she possibly could keeping the hedgehogs welfare at heart. Why so much backlash and nastiness from some members *smh*

As for her being expected to keep her dogs on lines in their own garden.....jeeeez....that is just ridiculous!

In Malmums place.... I would have acted in a very similar manner to sort such a problem.

I honestly think that some people look out to have a good nitpick at another member through boredom....as I cannot for the life of me see where Malmum has done anything wrong in her actions over the hedgehog problem.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

chichi said:


> I honestly think that some people look out to have a good nitpick at another member through boredom....*as I cannot for the life of me see where Malmum has done anything wrong in her actions over the hedgehog problem*.


What about the way she spoke to a member who made one valid post?

If you start a thread asking for advice you have to be willing to accept that you are going to get differing opinions and probably hear some things you don't like or agree with.

To throw your toys out of the pram and hurl unnecessary abuse is in my opinion very much out of order.

It seems to me that there was little need for the thread at all. The OP had already made up her mind that the hedgehog was going and had consulted a hedgehog expert about it, so why come on here ask for advice and then have a hissy fit when you don't hear what you want to hear?

It is clear that in the OP's opinion no-one on here is qualified enough to give advice about their dogs so why start the thread in a dog chat.... where we are free to chat........ about dogs?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

foxyrockmeister said:


> What about the way she spoke to a member who made one valid post?
> 
> If you start a thread asking for advice you have to be willing to accept that you are going to get differing opinions and probably hear some things you don't like or agree with.
> 
> ...


But Malmum didnt ask for advice about her dogs though.....people just offered that free of charge

I cant blame her getting hissy over some of the comments. If someone told me to keep my dogs on lines in their own garden...I would be sure to tell them to "do one" ,,,,politely of course lol


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

chichi said:


> *But Malmum didnt ask for advice about her dogs though.....people just offered that free of charge*
> 
> I cant blame her getting hissy over some of the comments. If someone told me to keep my dogs on lines in their own garden...I would be sure to tell them to "do one" ,,,,politely of course lol


My point exactly, so why post it in DOG chat? We are not experts in hedgehogs or elderly neighbours. We are not necessarily experts in dogs either but we all have different experiences and are entitled to our opinions without fear of nasty, spiteful and downright rude insults.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Sled dog hotel, my posts were never meant to be personal about your dogs, or your training. I'm sorry about that, it is NOT my intention to make anyone feel bad.

I really don't know what else to say...


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

if i can remember correctly the issue with members mainly stemmed from people feeling sorry for the old lady (myself included ) then malmum came back and explained that the lady didn't look at the hedgehog as being some sort of pet, the lady is happy for the hedgie to be removed, situation solved
now everyone is flogging a dead horse


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## cat burglar (Jun 9, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you want to be end of the long line with 60Kgs of dog used for pulling heavy loads for over long distances or wrestling one away from a furry critter instincts telling them to catch and kill be my guest.
> 
> They have got teeth they can acutally chew very rapidly through a long line if they get the inclination.
> 
> Like Malmum for 20 years and in her case 30 fences have contained them as its usually adequate. Put a creeping critter immediately on the other side, fence or no fence they can smell and hear it.


This brought back memories! I used to have 3 beautiful Siberian Huskies many moons ago (all RIP now but not forgotten, or replaced), OH used to compete in sledge racing with them at Aviemore and a few other venues. One day, one of my huskies spotted a rat in my garden and chased after it, rat squeezed through a gap in next door neighbour's fence, husky ran at fence and merely smashed through it to get at rat, and caught it  Neighbours were really grateful husky caught rat and we had fence repaired. Husky was completely unharmed.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I have been on this forum for over 4 years now and this thread contains THE most childish, pathetic behaviour I have genuinely ever seen - and NOT just from the OP.

I feel like i'm in a kitchen with all these pots and kettles


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Ah, but the real question surely is:

*Will the topic of hedgehogs now be banned on PF? *


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

17 pages?! LOL! :lol:

Madness!


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

The beach was lovely if anyone's interested. Moderator wake up !!!!


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Isn't every breed challenging in it's own way?


Jack Russells arent! See! I still have some of my hair left!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Ah, but the real question surely is:
> 
> *Will the topic of hedgehogs now be banned on PF? *


If it is then I'm stuck! :ihih::ihih:


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> If it is then I'm stuck! :ihih::ihih:


wow... they are cool!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

dandogman said:


> wow... they are cool!


Thank you.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Ah, but the real question surely is:
> 
> *Will the topic of hedgehogs now be banned on PF? *


Don't even mention the H word for at least the next 6 months at least

Think Mrs Tiggywinkle has caused enough ructions for at least that time.rrr:


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow... I really don't know what to say after reading all of this... 

Although, I am feeling shocked and saddened that a few members who I have always thought were helpful and have had respect for, have completely shown me a different side... and not a good one. Totally shocked *shakes head*


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Malmum is it Helen from St Tiggywinkles your incontact with or another authority?
> 
> If its Helen from Tiggys I have worked with and shes knows her stuff


Yes it is Helen and she's been very quick to answer my e mails. I'm glad MollySmith gave me the link because I e mailed hogwatch and haven't had a reply yet, likely due to it being the weekend. Helen pointed me in the right direction as to where I should re locate, I was thinking park or such which is wrong and would have put hog in jeopardy. Once I've re located hog I will send Helen an update. Very helpful lady.

I think leaving it where it is is asking for trouble, not only due to the dogs but also the slug pellets she has put down recently. If it is a male that would explain why it's scratching at the fence, probably wants to get out and find a female. May also be why it's so active at the mo because I'm sure there must have been hogs in that garden before which have never been a problem to the Mals.

Funny thing is, the dogs haven't even bothered with it this evening since I put the logs there - typical. Im not going to leave it there though because of the pellets and if it is scratching at the fence, because it needs to find a mate, it would be grossly unfair to not release it - even if it were a 'pet', which no one has the right to do (regardless of age) to any wild species let alone an endangered one. 
Now to decide on a cool evening to let it go where it can resume being a free roaming wild animal and my dogs can resume enjoying their own garden, as they have done for several years now - and rightly so.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

How some of you can accuse MM of being the rude one with some of the vile replies iv seen is beyond me and im surprised she kept her cool for so long tbh....


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Didn't they once throw a cat between each other that they had caught?


Only just read this and WTF are you talking about????

Certainly NO they didn't - goodness I would have been mortified!!! I am aghast at such a statement and if a PF members dog had ever done something like that I'm pretty sure I'd REMEMBER who it was!

Must remember to show this to my kids tomorrow, they think we're all pretty crazy on here but this takes the biscuit!  My poor dogs, what a thing to be associated with!  conjures up images of crazy uncontrolled wild wolves running about the place - pretty sick tbh!

ETA - thank you we love bsh's. They wonder why I've been rude with such wild assumptions, futile comparisons and judgements on my dogs. Goodness the forum hitler even said I shouldn't be posting this in Dog Chat - hope she doesn't see the thread on Fences, and all the other zillions of similar threads on here! 
I think they are amongst the most laid back dogs on this forum, you don't see me posting about having to take them for a walk because they're 'bouncing off walls' or having issues with 'aggressive behaviour' when I touch their food but you do see me post how incredibly laid back and lazy they are. Reading back I would have likely been far ruder if I'd read these posts earlier. Even told where I should be posting by some jumped up member - honestly!


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> How some of you can accuse MM of being the rude one with some of the vile replies iv seen is beyond me and im surprised she kept her cool for so long tbh....


I think it is one particular post from MM that really got peoples backs up... there have been a few rude people on each 'side', and there often are on threads like this, however that one particular comment that I am referring to, was below the belt... and by far the worst comment on this whole thread, IMO.

People being rude is no excuse for someone to get nasty.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree that was a bit below the belt but that particular member has avoided my threads for some time, for whatever reason and don't know why she felt the need to back up another's post - felt it was a dig, hence the reaction. 
You find on here that you get the 'cold shoulder' from time to time, members that previously 'love your dogs and just want to cuddle them' - post after post then suddenly you find it was all false. That's the very thing I despise about forums, false women!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Jobeth said:


> If your neighbour loves the hedgehog I'm sure a house, as suggested for it, where it was safer, would be
> the best option. If she sees it as a slug killer, then *offer to buy her slug pellets.* As you have
> a good relationship, I'm sure you can sort something out by talking to her.


a note re SLUG BAIT: 
it's very attractive to *dogs* & it's exceedingly toxic!

if she'd like to kill slugs, the safest & simplest methods are, 
1 - beer in shallow cups or bowls with vertical sides, at soil-depth 
2 - lay down boards, or ideally, old roofing slates, & lift them up to pick-off the slugs hiding there 
in daylight hours, & discard them. Takes a bit of work, but no poisons - :thumbsup:

Beer is cheap, safe, non-toxic, & drowns the little slimers - they fall in, get drunk, & die.
Toss them on the compost-heap & bury them. 

A half-pint plastic tub [such as those used for deli-containers to put potato salad in] works nicely - 
U do have to replace the beer when it rains, as it gets too diluted to attract them.

There are also made-for-purpose beer traps - or DIY instructions:
Slug Trap from Recycled Water Bottles

Baby-food bottles work very well, BTW - fill 'em 1/2 full, push into the soil, toss the beer & slugs as needed, 
refill with beer, & replace the trap in the soil.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

lennythecloud said:


> I've personally *seen a hedgehog scale a wall*... at least 4-ft [high], with ease *in pursuit of a cat*.


*Wow - * i had no idea Brit hedgehogs were so bloodthirsty! 

They chase CATS?!?!... over walls?! -- I thought they ate earthworms & such?

Which of these looks most like the cat-killer / cat-hunting hedgie? ...







/\ her name, BTW, is Catia the Hedgehog. 







or - 






?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Pupcakes said:


> 17 pages?! LOL! :lol:
> 
> Madness!


a-ha!... 

reset Ur preferences for *40 posts per page - * suddenly, average threads are all on one page. :thumbsup:

Yer welcome! :001_smile:


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I agree that was a bit below the belt but that particular member has avoided my threads for some time, for whatever reason and don't know why she felt the need to back up another's post - felt it was a dig, hence the reaction.
> You find on here that you get the 'cold shoulder' from time to time, members that previously 'love your dogs and just want to cuddle them' - post after post then suddenly you find it was all false. That's the very thing I despise about forums, false women!


If this is directed at me

I do not believe as dog owners we should expect the world to bend around us or our dogs. 
Another's post inspired me to ask a question, you chose not to answer it. which is totally your prerogative, it did take something of a tangent from the original topic i did however feel it was relevant to the wider whole.

I still think your dogs are beautiful ( although I'm not really a cuddler. so few dogs actually enjoy full on hugs) I do however find your tendency to become vitriolic and offensive to those who disagree with you very unattractive indeed.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I think they are amongst the most laid back dogs on this forum, you don't see me posting about having to take them for a walk because they're 'bouncing off walls' or having issues with 'aggressive behaviour' when I touch their food but you do see me post how incredibly laid back and lazy they are. Reading back I would have likely been far ruder if I'd read these posts earlier. Even told where I should be posting by some jumped up member - honestly!


Yet they can't live together, can't cope with a hedgehog living in the garden next door and Flynn can't even be let off leash in a secure field. Please don't make out your dogs are perfect and everyone elses are problematic when yours have their issues.


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh come on guys........ can this just be left to RIP now. Relationships won't improve and we all learn so much from one another usually.
It's a sad reflection that a lot of us ( me included) are drawn back to such a thread to see how it's going.


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## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

For what it's worth, I think that malmum has the same rights as anyone else to post a thread on something that is a concern to her, why should she not have posted here but on other forums instead as someone suggested?

She had an issue with her dog reacting to a hedgehog, dog was fixated on hedgehog and I imagine the hog was probably distressed. Malmum clearly wasn't only concerned about her own dog but also for the welfare of the hog. She could easily have gone ahead and moved the hog without mentioning it to her neighbour but she didn't, she came here to ask for advice and opinions. 

Even when the experts wrote back saying that to move the hog would be the best solution, people still were not happy with that, it seems that no matter what, malmum wouldn't be doing right. Her neighbour also agreed to moving the hog. I think that Malmum done what she believed to be best for both the hog and her dog/s.

We used to have a hog in our garden, it appeared one summer and stayed the whole time. It was beautiful but I had a feeling it couldn't get out. It had possibly come in to hibernate and grew in that time and couldn't get out the way that it had come in, so I left the gate open a few nights just to give it the chance to leave in case it was stuck.. it left that first night and never came back.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Only just read this and WTF are you talking about????
> 
> Certainly NO they didn't - goodness I would have been mortified!!! I am aghast at such a statement and if a PF members dog had ever done something like that I'm pretty sure I'd REMEMBER who it was!
> 
> ...


I apologise if it wasn't your dogs, I remembered a thread where three northern dogs threw the cat around in their garden, I thought it was yours, I am very sorry if I am wrong.

About the not commenting, I don't know who it was aimed at, but people have other things going on in their lives, I have just started posting a bit more and have not been very active myself as only a few on here know I have really been battling with my health these past months. Others can have the same things going on or personal problems etc. Sometimes people don't see threads either, it doesn't have to be a personal thing at all.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

IrishEyes said:


> For what it's worth, I think that malmum has the same rights as anyone else to post a thread on something that is a concern to her, why should she not have posted here but on other forums instead as someone suggested?
> 
> She had an issue with her dog reacting to a hedgehog, dog was fixated on hedgehog and I imagine the hog was probably distressed. Malmum clearly wasn't only concerned about her own dog but also for the welfare of the hog. She could easily have gone ahead and moved the hog without mentioning it to her neighbour but she didn't, she came here to ask for advice and opinions.
> 
> ...


Perfectly said ^ and I would do the exact same as MM in the same situation.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I cant see this thread going anywhere good again this morning, the op has made up her mind about the hog and has advice how to do it correctly, so there really is no reason to leave this open so the arguments can continue.


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