# Are You Proud Of This Country?



## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

I sometimes feel very reluctant to moan about this country - after all my Grandfather faught for this country. I know that we are lucky to be in such a country... we have clean water, food etc.

I just feel that I am losing faith in this country and the whole way that it is run! I do not vote anymore because I do not trust any of the politicians but then if you do not vote can you really complain?

People used to so proud of this country! Are you?


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## zanussi (Apr 1, 2009)

I wouldn't say I'm proud of this country- in fact I feel quite ashamed to be British a lot of the time. But I am thankful that I live in a country where we are free to say what we like and do pretty much what we like.
As far as voting goes I don't find any candidates or parties particularly inspiring but I always vote- to keep the bad guys out more than anything!
There are lots of places that appear to be better places to live like Australia & NZ but they too have their problems- I think knowing that the sun will shine on a regular basis helps cancel those problems out though!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Not so much as I once was!! and I am ENGLISH where did it vanish to?? many of the forms we now have to fill in ask if we are British???


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Yes I am proud of this Country. I think it is beautiful and the majority of the people are absolutely fabulous ( me included!).

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Not so much as I once was!! and I am ENGLISH where did it vanish to?? many of the forms we now have to fill in ask if we are British???


Yes, i have always thought that most peculair.:yikes:


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i personally think that the goverment have made a lot of people racist who werent  when you hear about all the things that the immigrants and foreigners are claiming for free and this country wont help their own people i do feel it has made people racist and i am sorry to say that, i am not racist ,never have been, but a lot of people i know have now turned racist thanks to this goverment i dont really feel proud of this country , i feel they let the british people down


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i personally think that the goverment have made a lot of people racist who werent  when you hear about all the things that the immigrants and foreigners are claiming for free and this country wont help their own people i do feel it has made people racist and i am sorry to say that, i am not racist ,never have been, but a lot of people i know have now turned racist thanks to this goverment i dont really feel proud of this country , i feel they let the british people down


all the more reason to vote at the next elections!! think there may be a good turnout!! maybe the highest since the war!
DT


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i personally think that the goverment have made a lot of people racist who werent  when you hear about all the things that the immigrants and foreigners are claiming for free and this country wont help their own people i do feel it has made people racist and i am sorry to say that, i am not racist ,never have been, but a lot of people i know have now turned racist thanks to this goverment i dont really feel proud of this country , i feel they let the british people down


I think it is certain sectors of the media with vastly inflated stories of the help some people get that has caused this too. 

However i love my country in all it's glorious colours :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Not so much as I once was!! and I am ENGLISH where did it vanish to?? many of the forms we now have to fill in ask if we are British???


I hope you don't think I am silly but... what makes somebody British or English? I was born here and so were my parents and their parents etc etc... am I British?



Lily's Mum said:


> Yes I am proud of this Country. I think it is beautiful and the majority of the people are absolutely fabulous ( me included!).
> 
> I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


That is great  this is a beautiful country 



archiebaby said:


> i personally think that the goverment have made a lot of people racist who werent  when you hear about all the things that the immigrants and foreigners are claiming for free and this country wont help their own people i do feel it has made people racist and i am sorry to say that, i am not racist ,never have been, but a lot of people i know have now turned racist thanks to this goverment i dont really feel proud of this country , i feel they let the british people down


I think I know where you are going here. One rule for one and one for another so to speak


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> all the more reason to vote at the next elections!! think there may be a good turnout!! maybe the highest since the war!
> DT


 i know what you mean dt but i can also remember what the conservatives did when they were in power, we nearly lost our home back then with 5 small children because of the massive interest hike! i think the only one i would feel comftable voting is the one that is saying no to any more immigrants ( cant remember if it is the ukib or something) i just feel that it is way out of control now, i go to a boot fair on sunday mornings and really you feel like you have to have a passport to be there, unreal!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

rainy said:


> I think it is certain sectors of the media with vastly inflated stories of the help some people get that has caused this too.
> 
> However i love my country in all it's glorious colours :thumbsup:


i know what you mean rainy but my friends friend works in the unemployment office and you would not believe what extras they get, honestly


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i know what you mean dt but i can also remember what the conservatives did when they were in power, we nearly lost our home back then with 5 small children because of the massive interest hike! i think the only one i would feel comftable voting is the one that is saying no to any more immigrants ( cant remember if it is the ukib or something) i just feel that it is way out of control now, i go to a boot fair on sunday mornings and really you feel like you have to have a passport to be there, unreal!


The BNP? You should read their website they have some awful awful policies (in my opinion).


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Well when I was a child I was ENGLISH!! We had pen pals then and we were always England!
Then Great Britain and the United Kingdom appeared!!

I may be a bit thick but I believe the 
French have always been called French
The German German
The Spanish Spanish etc!!!

Or an I wrong!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well when I was a child I was ENGLISH!! We had pen pals then and we were always England!
> Then Great Britain and the United Kingdom appeared!!
> 
> I may be a bit thick but I believe the
> ...


oh I see what you mean!!! Took me a while.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

WittyKitty said:


> I hope you don't think I am silly but... what makes somebody British or English? I was born here and so were my parents and their parents etc etc... am I British?
> 
> That is great  this is a beautiful country
> 
> I think I know where you are going here. One rule for one and one for another so to speak


i think it most definately is, honestly at this boot fair, they are russians,polish etc but all driving around in mercs,bmw's and what is this thing with the second hand mobile phones, i have even witnessed a fight between two of them over buying one


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

WittyKitty said:


> The BNP? You should read their website they have some awful awful policies (in my opinion).


no, no not the bnp, i would never vote for them there is a uk something party?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I LOVE England, but not the people in it 

Over the years I have become so disillusioned with society and the expense of everyday living.

Council tax is ridiculously high, as are the cost of running two cars (which are essential in our line of business, and living in a small village).

I do not smoke, and drink very little - honest  and going for a pub lunch is now a luxury, so there is very little to look forward to.

The every day stress of living in this country has prompted us to considering moving to France in a few years time, in order that we may enjoy our retirement. We certainly could not afford to do that here.

It's very sad and my Dad, bless his soul, would be mortified if he could see this country now


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> no, no not the bnp, i would never vote for them there is a uk something party?


ooo the UKIP - UK indepedent party. haven't been on their website actually


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i know what you mean rainy but my friends friend works in the unemployment office and you would not believe what extras they get, honestly


Why would they get extras though  It just doesn't make sense to me. Is it because they have a good knowledge of the system and claim all they are entitled to.

There just seems no sense in the social dishing out more than they have to.  I have never known anyone get something extra out of the social unless they have fraudulently claimed it and the only people i have ever known claim fraudulently were very british


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

WittyKitty said:


> The BNP? You should read their website they have some awful awful policies (in my opinion).


just googled it, the uk independance party UKIP


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Nina said:


> I LOVE England, but not the people in it
> 
> Over the years I have become so disillusioned with society and the expense of everyday living.
> 
> ...


yup!

In my last job I worked with a lot of 'older' who were around the retirement age. They were a great bunch and whenever we got onto the state of the country they always said stuff like 'makes you wonder what the point in fighting for it was' very sad indeed!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

rainy said:


> Why would they get extras though  It just doesn't make sense to me. Is it because they have a good knowledge of the system and claim all they are entitled to.
> 
> There just seems no sense in the social dishing out more than they have to.  I have never known anyone get something extra out of the social unless they have fraudulently claimed it and the only people i have ever known claim fraudulently were very british


no , not fraudulently, what the are entitiled to get, i know with the living arrangements they get free electricity etc and also can be kitted out with all white good foc i have been told they then sell these and go and buy second hand ones round boot fairs etc,, i maybe barking up the wrong tree here but just feel it has turned people who werent racist into racists? which is very sad


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i think it most definately is, honestly at this boot fair, they are russians,polish etc but all driving around in mercs,bmw's and what is this thing with the second hand mobile phones, i have even witnessed a fight between two of them over buying one


This is something that I was told just the other day! Whether or not it is true or not I really do not know! but I have heard similar stories over the past few months so I assume that there must be some truth in it! Just wish that there was someone who would put us right and tell us the truth!
The person telling me by the way was of a higher intelligence and more clued up then many!

Anyway here is what I was told!

1. On arrival into the UK tthey are taken to a large warehouse in Leicester, which is stocked to the rafters with everything imaginable!! they just shop - but don't pay!!!!! This must be a tale surely!

2..A local person had a car for sale oustide his house not much of a car as it was only around £500! A gentleman enquired about the car! he could speak little English , he tried to tell the owner that the car would be paid for by the 'council' the man thought 'yeah as if' The seller did provide name address, car details etc!! The buyer left a silly deposit of around £30 - the seller took it not knowing what to think! the buyer returned a week later with a cheque from either the Council or DHSS NOT SURE!!!!! this cannot be true!!! can it?????????

Tell me I am daft for reading everything I hear!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> no , not fraudulently, what the are entitiled to get, i know with the living arrangements they get free electricity etc and also can be kitted out with all white good foc i have been told they then sell these and go and buy second hand ones round boot fairs etc,, i maybe barking up the wrong tree here but just feel it has turned people who werent racist into racists? which is very sad


That is almost what I have heard see post below your initial one!!
DT


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That is almost what I have heard see post below your initial one!!
> DT


i really believe it is true dt, the friend in the unemployment office told my friend this, and the warehouse thing rings true also? a friend had a car for sale the other day, a company car for £5500 he said a russian bloke turned up with a money belt on and paid him for the car, he said what he took out of the belt was a drop in the ocean to what was in there i think there is something really funny going on with them to be honest, if they were just coming here to get their £45 a week ( my son of 23 is currently unemployed and that is what he is entitiled to) i dont think they would stay for long


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Nina said:


> I LOVE England, but not the people in it
> 
> Over the years I have become so disillusioned with society and the expense of everyday living.
> 
> ...


France is a wonderfull place we have spent a lot of time over the years in france and it would certainly be the place i could move to.

I used to feel proud of this country but not now i think of all the elderly people many passed and how they fought and made it the place it used to be, what a shame, most of them would hate to see it as it is today.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I love this country but i HATE the way we are made to look like a bunch of idiots.I don't think its racist if like me you think this country should stop imigration, to me its common sence.They haven't got a clue where millions of ilegal imigrants are because they let them go into the system. how bl**dy stupid is that? If you watch the Australian passport control they don't mess about. If you shouldn't be there they put them on the next plane back to where they came from.God who started me off? pmsl now i need a drink and a ***, whch i might add i pay through the nose for.*


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> France is a wonderfull place we have spent a lot of time over the years in france and it would certainly be the place i could move to.
> 
> I used to feel proud of this country but not now i think of all the elderly people many passed and how they fought and made it the place it used to be, what a shame, most of them would hate to see it as it is today.


My father loved this country! He was very old fashioned and loyal to his friend that never returned! for example he would never knowingly have anything japanesse in the house, He was himself shot in the leg in WW two, he always suffered to the dy he died with that leg but continued to work until he retired! And he stuggled financially all his life!! never ever receiving any handouts!!! I certainly know his opinions of this country changed! So if his could my definately can!!


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

*the Empire!*


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I love this country but i HATE the way we are made to look like a bunch of idiots.I don't think its racist if like me you think this country should stop imigration, to me its common sence.They haven't got a clue where millions of ilegal imigrants are because they let them go into the system. how bl**dy stupid is that? If you watch the Australian passport control they don't mess about. If you shouldn't be there they put them on the next plane back to where they came from.God who started me off? pmsl now i need a drink and a ***, whch i might add i pay through the nose for.*


you have your *** and drink janice, but thats what i mean, immigration should be stopped or at the very least highly controlled, they just dont have a bl***dy clue thats why i think the ukip might just have the idea


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> My father loved this country! He was very old fashioned and loyal to his friend that never returned! for example he would never knowingly have anything japanesse in the house, He was himself shot in the leg in WW two, he always suffered to the dy he died with that leg but continued to work until he retired! And he stuggled financially all his life!! never ever receiving any handouts!!! I certainly know his opinions of this country changed! So if his could my definately can!!


and the ones that are still here are not even looked after by their own country properly


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I love this country but i HATE the way we are made to look like a bunch of idiots.I don't think its racist if like me you think this country should stop imigration, to me its common sence.They haven't got a clue where millions of ilegal imigrants are because they let them go into the system. how bl**dy stupid is that? If you watch the Australian passport control they don't mess about. If you shouldn't be there they put them on the next plane back to where they came from.God who started me off? pmsl now i need a drink and a ***, whch i might add i pay through the nose for.*


That'll all change when we get our heads together Jan!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That'll all change when we get our heads together Jan!


that is all this country needs, someone who know what they are bl***dy doing and can see the obvious


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That'll all change when we get our heads together Jan!


*DT another thing that gets me is this.The people in goverment know only too well how people are feeling about imigration and still they do nothing,in my oppion its a timebomb waiting to go off.Especialy now with so much unemployment and people loosing their homes.People can only be pushed so far.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> My father loved this country! He was very old fashioned and loyal to his friend that never returned! for example he would never knowingly have anything japanesse in the house, He was himself shot in the leg in WW two, he always suffered to the dy he died with that leg but continued to work until he retired! And he stuggled financially all his life!! never ever receiving any handouts!!! I certainly know his opinions of this country changed! So if his could my definately can!!


That really touches the heart, the men fought for their country sooo many died doing it, what would those soldiers like your dad and mine think now to our young soldiers losing their lives not serving our queen and country anymore but someone elses country, when it comes to young people losing their lives or coming back so traumatised they cant lead a normal life, i know they would be devastated.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

hi, I think we have a beautiful country ruined by some social scum, (re :-teachers being abused by children & parents, they are there to teach, not be punch bags for this scum to take out their frustrations on. I am not racist either but I am cultural, I think when people come to our country they should abide by our rules & belief's, I think they should practice theirs freely but not cause our schools to stop our religeous festivals, that we have had for centuries, as British people we are from all races, remember we ruled such as India & Hong Kong & such,if so, I believe they would not be happy(find another school or go back), Australia has this policy, don't come if you want to complain, we are not the country for you.
I have many beautiful friends of culture & race, gay & straight that I would give my love & help freely, but I do think there are people out there that want to cause race hate & not all are white.
I would love the children of thiscountry to be obedient & respect their elders, people who teach, their parents, & I think religion is the worst thing for causing war & hatred.
There are more people out there who hate & want to cause trouble than nice kind people, we are out numbered, frightened to walk our own streets because we are nice & we are bullied by the bad. I hope I have not offended anyone as I have not intended that, I just would like the old respect way back.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> That really touches the heart, the men fought for their country sooo many died doing it, what would those soldiers like your dad and mine think now to our young soldiers losing their lives not serving our queen and country anymore but someone elses country, when it comes to young people losing their lives or coming back so traumatised they cant lead a normal life, i know they would be devastated.


They would Haeveymolly! My Dad was a proud man!! an her never left the house without his shoes/boots highly polished!!! And his hair gleamed even at seventy! he hated scuffiness!

But changing the subject a little - I find world war one really heartbreaking!!! All those young lives lost! and all those executions!! Very upsetting! To think they gave their lives for this shower of muppets !!!!
Sorry gonna leav it now!!
DT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I think the fact that people are so passionate about this subject proves they do love this country,just not the way its run.*


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## zanussi (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm going to play devils advocate here- I worked as a catering manager for many years, whenever we had jobs available we would advertise in store, job centre, usual places and we would rarely get any applications from local people and if they did apply they wouldn't turn up for interview or would refuse the job as it was only a little bit above minimum wage (but almost twice as much as wages were when I was going for those positions 10 yrs ago!). 99% of applications were from foreigners, either european or foreign students. We would struggle to find people who could speak English well enough to cope in the job (it's a bit of a hindrance when the job involves talking to people all day!) but we soon learnt how to catch them out! 
It really annoys me when I hear people moaning about foreigners coming over here and taking all our jobs- many people who were born and bred here don't want the jobs that are available as they think it's beneath them and it's far easier to stay home on the dole.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> no , not fraudulently, what the are entitiled to get, i know with the living arrangements they get free electricity etc and also can be kitted out with all white good foc i have been told they then sell these and go and buy second hand ones round boot fairs etc,, i maybe barking up the wrong tree here but just feel it has turned people who werent racist into racists? which is very sad


Sorry Im not British or English and so cant say I feel "proud" of this country tho I certainly enjoy living here..but then id be fine in France or in India or anywhere else for that matter 

But had to react to that...
This is most certainly nonsense, immigrants are not entitled to loads of things, they are entitled to very little in actual facts. The things mentioned here are most probably fancy tales spread around for whatever reason.
The only immigrants who have some sort of entitlement often are asylum seekers and whatever they have you need not envy...
Immigrants cannot come here and claim benefits, even Europeans cannot come here and claim benefits straight on, very much far from it!!!
Immigration may be too high in the eyes of many but you can trust me when I say that they are not "stealing" your welfare system. Some may be using it fraudulently or knowing the routes (I have known of asylum seekers using their council house, provided to them for whatever reason at whatever price, renting it off to students...a very much illegal albeit profitable "business") etc but MANY more Britishers do the same and worse!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

zanussi said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate here- I worked as a catering manager for many years, whenever we had jobs available we would advertise in store, job centre, usual places and we would rarely get any applications from local people and if they did apply they wouldn't turn up for interview or would refuse the job as it was only a little bit above minimum wage (but almost twice as much as wages were when I was going for those positions 10 yrs ago!). 99% of applications were from foreigners, either european or foreign students. We would struggle to find people who could speak English well enough to cope in the job (it's a bit of a hindrance when the job involves talking to people all day!) but we soon learnt how to catch them out!
> It really annoys me when I hear people moaning about foreigners coming over here and taking all our jobs- many people who were born and bred here don't want the jobs that are available as they think it's beneath them and it's far easier to stay home on the dole.


*The answer to that is, if they are on the dole MAKE them take the jobs.And its about time the min. wage was set to a realistic wage.*


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm proud to be Welsh and my OH is proud to be Scottish, but i'm not proud of the fact that Britain is becoming an unsafe place to live and we're now known as the 'binge' drinking country 

I blame all young knife weilding (sp) morons who ruin it for the rest of us


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Sorry Im not British or English and so cant say I feel "proud" of this country tho I certainly enjoy living here..but then id be fine in France or in India or anywhere else for that matter
> 
> But had to react to that...
> This is most certainly nonsense, immigrants are not entitled to loads of things, they are entitled to very little in actual facts. The things mentioned here are most probably fancy tales spread around for whatever reason.
> ...


Pity we dont run a points system like other countries.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

You just have to tote up how many unmarried kids having babies in this country, the government make it too easy for them to milk the system, baby, pram, money, house, free this free that, the people who kept it in their pockets & use contreceptives because they cannot afford to have a family are paying for them.
So I agree, what about the people who say oh! it's not worth me getting out of bed for that job I get that on the dole. In Germany they have to clean the streets or do something on the community to earn theirs why not try that, but then that is taking away their human rights, it would be bellow them.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Pity we dont run a points system like other countries.


?? That IS what is in place at the moment (since 2007-ish) - a point-based system for immigration...
except for the EU of course...


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Sorry Im not British or English and so cant say I feel "proud" of this country tho I certainly enjoy living here..but then id be fine in France or in India or anywhere else for that matter
> 
> But had to react to that...
> This is most certainly nonsense, immigrants are not entitled to loads of things, they are entitled to very little in actual facts. The things mentioned here are most probably fancy tales spread around for whatever reason.
> ...


There's no smoke without fire imo!!!! 
I would however like to ask one question here!! Why are we continuosly shown 'live' pictures from the docks in France of immigrants trying to gain access to the UK , often in a dangerous manner i'e on a lorry axle! There must be a reason if they are prepared to risk their lives! just curious!!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I love my country.
Britain in general I have concerns about


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Thought I would add a song for ya.:thumbsup:

YouTube - British Anthem, God Save the Queen (with lyrics)


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> There's no smoke without fire imo!!!!
> I would however like to ask one question here!! Why are we continuosly shown 'live' pictures from the docks in France of immigrants trying to gain access to the UK , often in a dangerous manner i'e on a lorry axle! There must be a reason if they are prepared to risk their lives! just curious!!


Those immigrants are prepared to risk their life to go wherever they have been told they can have a better life (not hard seeing where they come from).
But I can assure you there are many doing exactly the same to get into France..and even the US if you believe 
Just because you see certain things on English TV doesnt necessarily give a true picture of the account worldwide....

There is no smoke without fire....mmm..well there are no lies without people naive enough to believe them...
the 'fire' you see is more likely the need some people have to blame sth/sb else than themselves for the problems they are facing...


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Thought I would add a song for ya.:thumbsup:
> 
> YouTube - British Anthem, God Save the Queen (with lyrics)


Crack on with the posting you!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

BALOO J. said:


> You just have to tote up how many unmarried kids having babies in this country, the government make it too easy for them to milk the system, baby, pram, money, house, free this free that, the people who kept it in their pockets & use contreceptives because they cannot afford to have a family are paying for them.
> So I agree, what about the people who say oh! it's not worth me getting out of bed for that job I get that on the dole. In Germany they have to clean the streets or do something on the community to earn theirs why not try that, but then that is taking away their human rights, it would be bellow them.


I'll second that, good post!


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Thought I would add a song for ya.:thumbsup:
> 
> YouTube - British Anthem, God Save the Queen (with lyrics)


Seeing as your posting that, i'm gonna post the welsh national anthem for all the welshies on here 

YouTube - Welsh National Anthem


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Sorry Im not British or English and so cant say I feel "proud" of this country tho I certainly enjoy living here..but then id be fine in France or in India or anywhere else for that matter
> 
> But had to react to that...
> This is most certainly nonsense, immigrants are not entitled to loads of things, they are entitled to very little in actual facts. The things mentioned here are most probably fancy tales spread around for whatever reason.
> ...


so if they cant claim benefits, can you please explain to me how they can purchase the expensive cars, phones etc... or if they are indeed working on the minimum wage how can they still afford to buy those things, and not just buy, but insure vehicles,tax,upkeep etc? most the ones i have seen do all seem to own a car of somesort? and all this on the minimum wage?


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> so if they cant claim benefits, can you please explain to me how they can purchase the expensive cars, phones etc... or if they are indeed working on the minimum wage how can they still afford to buy those things, and not just buy, but insure vehicles,tax,upkeep etc? most the ones i have seen do all seem to own a car of somesort? and all this on the minimum wage?


I was wondering that. They usually drive flash Mercs and BMW's


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

and would just like to say that round all the local boots fairs that i go to it is the immigrants that are buying all the second hand phones for upto £100 a time for good ones and this i have seen with my own eyes ,they have even got into fights over who is buying the item! along with car stereos,cd players and computers etc and again all this must be done on the minimum wage as they have no real benefits you say?


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> so if they cant claim benefits, can you please explain to me how they can purchase the expensive cars, phones etc... or if they are indeed working on the minimum wage how can they still afford to buy those things, and not just buy, but insure vehicles,tax,upkeep etc? most the ones i have seen do all seem to own a car of somesort? and all this on the minimum wage?


I dont know how the people you are referring to afford their expensive lifestyle and to be honest its none of my business. I know Brits who live above their means and foreigners who can barely afford dinner...
Maybe those you see have well-paid jobs because their qualifications are very much needed...or maybe they are part of some mafia and smuggle things around lol  I dont know!
But legal or illegal it does not justify assuming all foreigners get loads of benefits because this is blatantly not true.
There are criminals in every nationality...


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Marcia said:


> I was wondering that. They usually drive flash Mercs and BMW's


Because they dont pay interest on the finance so ive heard, due to their religion they dont except interest either but cant see that one being a problem


----------



## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> and would just like to say that round all the local boots fairs that i go to it is the immigrants that are buying all the second hand phones for upto £100 a time for good ones and this i have seen with my own eyes ,they have even got into fights over who is buying the item! along with car stereos,cd players and computers etc and again all this must be done on the minimum wage as they have no real benefits you say?


Its not me saying they cant claim benefits, its the law and its facts...

At the end of the day there is no pleasing you is there? if they were to save their money and send it abroad you would complain that they are not really integrated and if they spend it here and contribute to the economy you suspect some mischief and still complain  LOL

All i can assure you is that they are not the ones draining the benefits system!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> I dont how the people you are referring to afford their expensive lifestyle and to be honest its none of my business. I know Brits who live above their means and foreigners who can barely afford dinner...
> Maybe those you see have well-paid jobs because their qualifications are very much needed...or maybe they are part of some mafia and smuggle things around lol  I dont know!
> But legal or illegal it does not justify assuming all foreigners get loads of benefits because this is blatantly not true.
> There are criminals in every nationality...


have you ever been round a boot fair on a sunday morning? it would be a very interesting eye opener i can assure you?
but be prepared to get pushed very rudely out of the way if you go anywhere near a mobile phone


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Its not me saying they cant claim benefits, its the law and its facts...
> 
> All i can assure you is that they are not the ones draining the benefits system!


Matter of opinion!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Its not me saying they cant claim benefits, its the law and its facts...
> 
> At the end of the day there is no pleasing you is there? if they were to save their money and send it abroad you would complain that they are not really integrated and if they spend it here and contribute to the economy you suspect some mischief and still complain  LOL
> 
> All i can assure you is that they are not the ones draining the benefits system!


because it is simply not true that they cant claim any benefits? they do and can?


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> have you ever been round a boot fair on a sunday morning? it would be a very interesting eye opener i can assure you?
> but be prepared to get pushed very rudely out of the way if you go anywhere near a mobile phone


not sure how this is relevant...
but I dont fancy car boots sale so Ill admit to my ignorance on that sphere


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Its not me saying they cant claim benefits, its the law and its facts...
> 
> At the end of the day there is no pleasing you is there? if they were to save their money and send it abroad you would complain that they are not really integrated and if they spend it here and contribute to the economy you suspect some mischief and still complain  LOL
> 
> All i can assure you is that they are not the ones draining the benefits system!


*But having extra people in the system is not going to help is it?*


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> because it is simply not true that they cant claim any benefits? they do and can?


In most circumstances NO they cant and they dont.
Else give me some facts.
I work at the CAB so I know a little bit about all that really..


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> not sure how this is relevant...
> but I dont fancy car boots sale so Ill admit to my ignorance on that sphere


i think we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> In most circumstances NO they cant and they dont.
> Else give me some facts.
> I work at the CAB so I know a little bit about all that really..


I give you two if you hang on till after tea!! TWO FACTS of outright dishonesty!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *But having extra people in the system is not going to help is it?*


To put it simply:
Many foreigners contribute and yet are not entitled to benefits - how can that be a problem?
The rest contribute and are entitled to benefits like the Brits - I dont see that as a problem either...

Any generalisation about immigrants "draining" on the system is just plain ignorance IMO.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> In most circumstances NO they cant and they dont.
> Else give me some facts.
> I work at the CAB so I know a little bit about all that really..


ive

so can you just tell me exactly how they are expected to live? ie the housing,food electric etc? because even if they are working on the minimum wage this would definately not cover rent,food etc and not all of them are working?
i dont mean to sound nasty here because i am not and like probably everyone else i have been through rough times myself but i cannot just accept that they dont get help of any kind?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Going off the subject a little, my eldest son is now 21 but when he was due to leave school decided to stay on at 6th form, he brought a leaflet home to claim for E.M.A not that i have a problem with young people being encouraged to stay on at school but find it very unfair that its means tested, if you have a joint income of 30,000 or more then you couldnt claim, it also said that any families in income support etc would get the full ammount and ANY BENEFITS WOULD NOT BE EFFECTED. Dont you think this is sending out a lot a mixed messages, if you stay on at school get a good job you get nothing but kids with parents that claim benefits get the lot, mmmmm now lets see is it worth getting qualifications, earning a living when we could claim benefits and get all thats going.

I do know that there are honest people that want a job and cant work.
I also know that if a family income is over the ammount doesnt mean to say they give it to their kids.
And if i can say i have never wanted anyone to help look after/provide for my children but thats not the point.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I give you two if you hang on till after tea!! TWO FACTS of outright dishonesty!


Feel free DT!  (I mean it and if there is anything I can do I will)

But then all I can say is there are bad people everywhere, people who abuse the system...that does not mean we should generalise...and that certainly doesnt give the other immigrants any more benefits entitlement.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> To put it simply:
> Many foreigners contribute and yet are not entitled to benefits - how can that be a problem?
> The rest contribute and are entitled to benefits like the Brits - I dont see that as a problem either...
> 
> Any generalisation about immigrants "draining" on the system is just plain ignorance IMO.


*lmao. if we cut down the amount of people coming into this country then to me common sense says there will be enough or at least more for those born and bred here.Let me put this to you, if i gave you £100 per week to look after say 7 kids and then i said, hold on can you take on another 7 for the same money, what would happen? Something would suffer, right?*


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Going off the subject a little, my eldest son is now 21 but when he was due to leave school decided to stay on at 6th form, he brought a leaflet home to claim for E.M.A not that i have a problem with young people being encouraged to stay on at school but find it very unfair that its means tested, if you have a joint income of 30,000 or more then you couldnt claim, it also said that any families in income support etc would get the full ammount and ANY BENEFITS WOULD NOT BE EFFECTED. Dont you think this is sending out a lot a mixed messages, if you stay on at school get a good job you get nothing but kids with parents that claim benefits get the lot, mmmmm now lets see is it worth getting qualifications, earning a living when we could claim benefits and get all thats going.
> 
> I do know that there are honest people that want a job and cant work.
> I also know that if a family income is over the ammount doesnt mean to say they give it to their kids.
> And if i can say i have never wanted anyone to help look after/provide for my children but thats not the point.


Whilst my friends we're getting £30 a week EMA, i got nothing. I had to work every day after school for my money. All because my father was earning nearly £30,000. My mother doesn't work due to a disability. How is that fair?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Marcia said:


> I'm proud to be Welsh and my OH is proud to be Scottish, but i'm not proud of the fact that Britain is becoming an unsafe place to live and we're now known as the 'binge' drinking country
> 
> *I blame all young knife weilding (sp) morons who ruin it for the rest of us *


I could not agree more.


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## alyssa_liss (May 4, 2009)

i hate the fact that some peole get everything given to them 

i never got EMA yet i know people who did and they spent it on clothes etc..... 

i work hard for my money and save up for everything , infact i save a hell of a lot more than i spend.

people come in work saying they have no money etc.... make you feel guilty but then you thing hang on a minute if youve got no money why are you having a full head of highlights etc......

loads of student i know take gap years and just clam the dole , then they dont see the point in getting a job 

arghhhh rant , breath ....


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Feel free DT!  (I mean it and if there is anything I can do I will)
> 
> But then all I can say is there are bad people everywhere, people who abuse the system...that does not mean we should generalise...and that certainly doesnt give the other immigrants any more benefits entitlement.


This is a discussion! There is no room imo for such sarcastic comments!
Do you have a problem with me? Only I ask as this is not the first time we have crossed swords I fear!

DT


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> ive
> 
> so can you just tell me exactly how they are expected to live? ie the housing,food electric etc? because even if they are working on the minimum wage this would definately not cover rent,food etc and not all of them are working?
> i dont mean to sound nasty here because i am not and like probably everyone else i have been through rough times myself but i cannot just accept that they dont get help of any kind?


Immigrants are allowed in this country on the basis that they can provide for themselves.

I give you an example; I am a student at the moment although I also work in the CAB, I am French. I am looking into getting a full-time paid job soon. My OH is Indian on a student visa, on a Phd stipend that expires soon as if has finished the practical work and now has to write his thesis. During that time he can only work part-time.
If I dont find a job we will have to live on our savings or family help. We will not be entitled to ANY benefit. Once his visa status changes (once he applies for a visa that will cost him £500 +, in the middle of next year) he will be entitled to work but still NO benefits (such as Housing Benefit, Job-Seeker Allowance etc)
AFTER we have been settled for a few years we will have certain benefits entitlement if we needed to claim (which Im hoping we will never have to)...because we will have been contributing (working) and in my case because I am exercising my Treaty rights...but after a while if I was to rely too much on benefits my presence here could be challenged (I would not be exercising my rights anymore if I cannot provide for myself/my family - any hardship would have to be temporary if you want).

There are other more special benefits that can be awarded with special regards to the circumstances such as exceptional hardship and it could possibly be at times awarded to immigrants; but this is very limited amounts of money for very tough situations indeed.

I dont know if that makes it really clearer.
I know mostly the law on benefits and I can explain any specific issue by PM if need be.

I agree some people are abusing the system but the immigrants are certainly not the worse problem in that respect.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> This is a discussion! There is no room imo for such sarcastic comments!
> Do you have a problem with me? Only I ask as this is not the first time we have crossed swords I fear!
> 
> DT


Sorry DT it wasnt meant as a sarcastic comment - I do mean it - I would very much like to know more about the examples you had in mind and if i can advise you on reporting or any other action that can be taken I will! in all honesty.

As for crossing swords on other subjects dunno really, did not keep track Im afraid.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Immigrants are allowed in this country on the basis that they can provide for themselves.
> 
> I give you an example; I am a student at the moment although I also work in the CAB, I am French. I am looking into getting a full-time paid job soon. My OH is Indian on a student visa, on a Phd stipend that expires soon as if has finished the practical work and now has to write his thesis. During that time he can only work part-time.
> If I dont find a job we will have to live on our savings or family help. We will not be entitled to ANY benefit. Once his visa status changes (once he applies for a visa that will cost him £500 +, in the middle of next year) he will be entitled to work but still NO benefits (such as Housing Benefit, Job-Seeker Allowance etc)
> ...


*That is SO not true.if an imigrant comes into this country and says they don't have a passport they are let into the system never to be seen again.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Marcia said:


> Whilst my friends we're getting £30 a week EMA, i got nothing. I had to work every day after school for my money. All because my father was earning nearly £30,000. My mother doesn't work due to a disability. How is that fair?


Its far from fair, just because parents earn a decent living doesnt mean they can afford to give their children £30 a week, ime saying you resented your friends but it could cause some too.

And because (quote me if ime wrong) your dad earned that ammount i bet he couldnt get anything to help look after your mun if he had needed it.


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

I was gonna come in here and say that I'm not proud of this country.
And was also gonna add about immigrants and foreigners, but was scared I would come across as racist. I'm not racist, but I think it's unfair when they get everything, when I have friends and family who get absolutely nothing. They get given grants for cars etc and we have to fork out our money to buy one. Why are we pretty much the only country who allows this?

Also, everything here is ridiculously expensive, we pay tax, once again, practically the only country who does. Before I would have wanted to move to somewhere else in Europe, but that's getting expensive now because of the Euro and I hope to god, we don't change to it. However, some countries are really cheap.

And now especially when all these politicians are milking it for every penny.

Wow, I've wanted to rant about this for weeks, glad I've got it off my chest.
x


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *That is SO not true.if an imigrant comes into this country and says they don't have a passport they are let into the system never to be seen again.*


You're watching a little too much Border Control lol kidding 
I agree there are problems with people coming here illegally with no passport..those are illegal immigrants though, changing the rules on immigration is unlikely to affect them is it...
Like I said there are criminals in every nationality and to some extent an illegal immigrant is a criminal..
I agree more should be done to send them back to their country..its the same in France..


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *That is SO not true.if an imigrant comes into this country and says they don't have a passport they are let into the system never to be seen again.*


I know someone who has been here about 10 years


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *That is SO not true.if an imigrant comes into this country and says they don't have a passport they are let into the system never to be seen again.*


Or they smuggle themselves in, my o.h's work friend lost everything he had worked sooo hard for years for when an immigrant was found under his truck at the docks, he couldnt afford the thousands of £££'s to get his truck out of compound, couldnt afford the fine, and lost his operaters licence that cost around £8,000 to get in the first place. Why wasnt the immigrant sent back.
This to a sole operator can never be retrieved


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

EmzieAngel said:


> And was also gonna add about immigrants and foreigners, but was scared I would come across as racist. I'm not racist, but I think it's unfair when they get everything, when I have friends and family who get absolutely nothing. They get given grants for cars etc and we have to fork out our money to buy one. Why are we pretty much the only country who allows this?


Immigrants dont get "everything" far from it.

But then ive been saying it and not many people seem to take much notice...
Its no wonder tales about foreigners are so easily spread..to the extent of leading to the last election results..because people so badly want to believe in them, believe immigrants are to blame..its an easy lie...


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Going off the subject a little, my eldest son is now 21 but when he was due to leave school decided to stay on at 6th form, he brought a leaflet home to claim for E.M.A not that i have a problem with young people being encouraged to stay on at school but find it very unfair that its means tested, if you have a joint income of 30,000 or more then you couldnt claim, it also said that any families in income support etc would get the full ammount and ANY BENEFITS WOULD NOT BE EFFECTED. Dont you think this is sending out a lot a mixed messages, if you stay on at school get a good job you get nothing but kids with parents that claim benefits get the lot, mmmmm now lets see is it worth getting qualifications, earning a living when we could claim benefits and get all thats going.
> 
> I do know that there are honest people that want a job and cant work.
> I also know that if a family income is over the ammount doesnt mean to say they give it to their kids.
> And if i can say i have never wanted anyone to help look after/provide for my children but thats not the point.


I know what you're saying, I claimed EMA for the past two years.
I think it's up to 36,000 now.
But as my mum is a single mum and was also made redundant twice in the past few years, she claimed benefits, but works full time now, and I was still eligible (sp?) for it. However, my dad is an alcoholic and hasn't provided for me for the past year now as he was made redundant and all the money I got from EMA has been mostly put towards bits and pieces I've needed for college.

However, I do think it's very unfair myself.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I agree that illegal immigrants are a drain on our society and I also agree that we should now stop opening the floodgates for more immigrants purely because we are now in an economic downturn and really there is no room or place for them ....jobs are now hard to come by, buying housing difficult etc so really we need all the resources we do have to keep afloat who is actually living here at the moment.

I can see what oblo is saying about the british people who scab off the system I see it everyday...opposite where i live is a prime example mum and dad only in early twentys two kids.....on benefits sit outside all day drinking and smoking.....makes my blood boil! I toil away everyday for what!

I also see lots of immigrants doing the same thing! there is good and bad in every race and nationality.

Unfortunately we have got a society that has been raised as benefit dependent and thats the cycle that needs breaking!

As ive said before the system needs changing! so that NOONE can abuse it!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

EmzieAngel said:


> I know what you're saying, I claimed EMA for the past two years.
> I think it's up to 36,000 now.
> But as my mum is a single mum and was also made redundant twice in the past few years, she claimed benefits, but works full time now, and I was still eligible (sp?) for it. However, my dad is an alcoholic and hasn't provided for me for the past year now as he was made redundant and all the money I got from EMA has been mostly put towards bits and pieces I've needed for college.
> 
> However, I do think it's very unfair myself.


You are more than entitled and anyone in your situation, your mum struggling in work and still wanting her best for you should be commended and ime not being patronising, your mum has paid into the system and ime sure many more have but theres an awfull lot that havnt


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Immigrants dont get "everything" far from it.
> 
> But then ive been saying it and not many people seem to take much notice...
> Its no wonder tales about foreigners are so easily spread..to the extent of leading to the last election results..because people so badly want to believe in them, believe immigrants are to blame..its an easy lie...


*Believe me when i say, i NEVER thought like i do now.I'll go back to the 60's when we had a lot of imigrants come onto this country,and i heard people complaining about them talking " our jobs".I can say hand on heart i didn't think that was the case.So can you explain why now i think differently? i'll tell you why, the rules have changed in favour of none brits.*


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Immigrants dont get "everything" far from it.
> 
> But then ive been saying it and not many people seem to take much notice...
> Its no wonder tales about foreigners are so easily spread..to the extent of leading to the last election results..because people so badly want to believe in them, believe immigrants are to blame..its an easy lie...


Well I know they get a lot more than us British do.


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> You are more than entitled and anyone in your situation, your mum struggling in work and still wanting her best for you should be commended and ime not being patronising, your mum has paid into the system and ime sure many more have but theres an awfull lot that havnt


Don't worry I didn't think you were being patronising, I just wanted to state that in some situations it is different, and I actually agreed with your post that it is unfair to other people who want an education and get nothing


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Believe me when i say, i NEVER thought like i do now.I'll go back to the 60's when we had a lot of imigrants come onto this country,and i heard people complaining about them talking " our jobs".I can say hand on heart i didn't think that was the case.So can you explain why now i think differently? i'll tell you why, the rules have changed in favour of none brits.*


If thats what you want to believe thats fine.
But if you want more info dont hesitate to PM me..if you come across a situation where you think its unfair, that there is some discrimination against Brits maybe I can clarify it for you.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Believe me when i say, i NEVER thought like i do now.I'll go back to the 60's when we had a lot of imigrants come onto this country,and i heard people complaining about them talking " our jobs".I can say hand on heart i didn't think that was the case.So can you explain why now i think differently? i'll tell you why, the rules have changed in favour of none brits.*


And daily living has become harder for many brits, losing jobs, losing homes theres bound to be some resentment.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

EmzieAngel said:


> Well I know they get a lot more than us British do.


No they dont.

Oki I think ill just have to give up on this issue!
You believe whatever you wish to believe, fine by me.

From a somehow immigrant point of view (being French I dont see myself as an immigrant lol but then OH is clearly one) it is quite sad to see the spiteful generalisations made and believed by so many decent people.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Immigrants dont get "everything" far from it.
> 
> But then ive been saying it and not many people seem to take much notice...
> Its no wonder tales about foreigners are so easily spread..to the extent of leading to the last election results..because people so badly want to believe in them, believe immigrants are to blame..its an easy lie...


but you still havent really answered my question, the ones who are not working or working on minimal wage, how do they survive and also to rent a house now you need a deposit references where do these come from if they have no help as you are saying? my husbands friend has a hotel , he built a extension to the hotel to cope with the housing of the immigrants and was being paid on a 5 year contract with the council £86 per night per person per room!!! and there was three to a room! the national papers also highlighted this story , it was in croydon , surrey and this was actual fact not fiction? he also had another hotel in a different area with the same thing?


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> No they dont.
> 
> Oki I think ill just have to give up on this issue!
> 
> ...


no one means to be spiteful to the immigrants, it is our goverment who is to blame and can i just add that your goverment dont put up with it, do they?
our goverment need to sort our country out!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Oblada said:



If thats what you want to believe thats fine.
But if you want more info dont hesitate to PM me..if you come across a situation where you think its unfair, that there is some discrimination against Brits maybe I can clarify it for you.

Click to expand...

Sorry but i know whats what.I've been around long enough to see the changes and it isn't nice.You can't have one set of rules for one and not the other.



haeveymolly said:



And daily living has become harder for many brits, losing jobs, losing homes theres bound to be some resentment.

Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. perhaps a poll would have shown how people realy feel.
*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> Sorry but i know whats what.I've been around long enough to see the changes and it isn't nice.You can't have one set of rules for one and not the other.
> 
> ...


Good idea, can you do that?


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

Oblada said:


> No they dont.
> 
> Oki I think ill just have to give up on this issue!
> You believe whatever you wish to believe, fine by me.
> ...


I'm not arguing.
And I've not heard this from a rumour, it's from people I know.
And I'm not trying to be spiteful at all.
And also, I didn't know you were french, but I weren't really on about immigrants from Europe, it's others.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> but you still havent really answered my question, the ones who are not working or working on minimal wage, how do they survive and also to rent a house now you need a deposit references where do these come from if they have no help as you are saying? my husbands friend has a hotel , he built a extension to the hotel to cope with the housing of the immigrants and was being paid on a 5 year contract with the council £86 per night per person per room!!! and there was three to a room! the national papers also highlighted this story , it was in croydon , surrey and this was actual fact not fiction? he also had another hotel in a different area with the same thing?


The hotel issue - most probably asylum seekers no? Quite a different issue in my mind.

References for housing ; you dont necessarily need a reference (I started renting without one at first obviously)

Money when not working; could be savings, relatives helping, or a criminal activity I dont know it depends on the individual situation. In the case of some community there is a strong bond and support within the members, that can help.

Money when working on minimum wages; same thing - or good budgeting and credit cards? working 80 hours a week (not always on minimum wages) or whatever...

They will do whatever they can to survive as the State is really not at their doorstep ready to help..


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

can i just ask, why dont the immigrants ,when they reach france, stay there? why do they risk life and limb to come to this country if there is nothing for them? surely they have reached safety in france?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Good idea, can you do that?


*I will try, not sure it would work though.fingers crossed.*


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

EmzieAngel said:


> I'm not arguing.
> And I've not heard this from a rumour, it's from people I know.
> And I'm not trying to be spiteful at all.
> And also, I didn't know you were french, but I weren't really on about immigrants from Europe, it's others.


my OH is "others" sooo ...

I didnt mean to have a go at you seriously but i saddens me to see what people are ready to believe in...

If ANYONE has any CONCRETE, LEGAL example of anti-brits discrimination please do not hesitate to discuss it here or by PM.
But otherwise threads based on generalisations (immgrants get that, immigrants do this, immigrants are that) are just ..sad...IMO.


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Its far from fair, just because parents earn a decent living doesnt mean they can afford to give their children £30 a week, ime saying you resented your friends but it could cause some too.
> 
> And because (quote me if ime wrong) your dad earned that ammount i bet he couldnt get anything to help look after your mun if he had needed it.


My father is on a much lower wage now but he didn't get any help with regards to looking after my mother. Granted, my mother did get disability allowence but at the end of the day, it's still not enough to feed, clothe your family, pay the bills, morgage (sp), council tax etc.
And he worked up to 18 hours a day to get that wage!  As a lorry driver.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> can i just ask, why dont the immigrants ,when they reach france, stay there? why do they risk life and limb to come to this country if there is nothing for them? surely they have reached safety in france?


For a lot of immigrants France is their final destinations..for other its UK and the way is through France...

Could be because of some shoddy deal, could be relatives, could be language issue, could be beliefs about the country or anything really


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

Oblada said:


> my OH is "others" sooo ...
> 
> I didnt mean to have a go at you seriously but i saddens me to see what people are ready to believe in...
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if I've caused offence to you or your OH, I really don't mean to.
I do know of some that do get quite a bit, obviously not all of them do and others I don't know the situation.

And I know a lot that work really hard for what money they do get and fair play to them  And I'm also friends with people who are from different countries too 

So I'm sorry, please forgive me


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> For a lot of immigrants France is their final destinations..for other its UK and the way is through France...
> 
> Could be because of some shoddy deal, could be relatives, could be language issue, could be beliefs about the country or anything really


so , your country has as many as ours?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Good idea, can you do that?


*
DONE! please vote.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Oblada said:


> For a lot of immigrants France is their final destinations..for other its UK and the way is through France...
> 
> Could be because of some shoddy deal, could be relatives, could be language issue, could be beliefs about the country or anything really


They wouldnt stay in france they wouldnt get the meal tickets they get over here and thats what makes france is wonderful country it is, i know thats only my opinion i love, love, love france. I know i have only ever holidayed there but for the 15years we went we covered a lot of the country and have some idea that what we put up with here would never be tolerated over there.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

EmzieAngel said:


> I'm sorry if I've caused offence to you or your OH, I really don't mean to.
> I do know of some that do get quite a bit, obviously not all of them do and others I don't know the situation.
> 
> And I know a lot that work really hard for what money they do get and fair play to them  And I'm also friends with people who are from different countries too
> ...


No need to apologise, im not offended, you'll need more than that to offend me LOL I also disagree with immigrants shouting "racism!!" at the mere sight of criticisms or any personal comment or any discussion on immigration!

All I am saying is that - I am an immigrant albeit EU, my OH is a "real" immigrant lol and I work in the CAB...so I do know my way around the law on benefits and about people claiming them...
But I am not saying that all immigrants are decent people far from it!
Only that the division immigrants/non-immigrants is NOT helpful as I dont believe the former are, as a group, draining on the resources in this country.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> so , your country has as many as ours?


show my data proving otherwise.. Im no expert on this!

my country is where my home is and at the moment its here


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## mollyismyworld (May 2, 2009)

I have followed all this thread, and I am loathe to enter into arguments, but, I think there is a huge picture made up of many many fragments.

Yes, we have criminal activity in all Nationalities, but I think what the bug bear for many of us English people is the fact that these immigrants have descended in droves.
We are not all talking about the odd French student and her companion....many people go to different countries to study, and many go back home. Some work here and offer a sound input when educated to our country's requirements.

But, the fact that many immigrants have moved to our country and then encouraged their relatives to join them is absolutely ruining this nation. There is no way anybody can say this is not a drain on our housing, our economy, the cars on the road, our jobs etc.

I have lived as a tourist in India twice....had I gone into a temple without adhering to the rules of the religions,(covering my head and arms and wearing no leather) I would have been in danger of my life, never mind a mere wrist slap! I would not have gone there and expected them to change their rules according to my beliefs. When in Rome is an apt expression....I did everything to respect the fact that I was in THEIR country.

And yet here, there are rows over upsetting children who's parents have come from different countries, by having the good old assembly with songs, the Nativity at Christmas...swimming and other school sports where immigrants don't want their children taking part due to their beliefs! When in Rome? No way...we give them Mosques and Temples and we would be racist if we didn't!

Having spent time in Asia, I have had to bite my tongue at the way they treat their children, animals, a lot of time their women....most places were littered and that's how they lived.

But I didn't expect to come home to being pushed and shoved in supermarkets by these people, be expected to hold back my opinions for fear of being racist ( and yes, they DO claim racism at many offences they are charged with....my family are police and have to tip toe around these people daily), and to see them throw litter on our streets when we wouldn't dream of it.

A lot of our problems with immigrants are their attitudes....do they seem thankful for our hospitality? Or do they not seem just a tad expectant of our weak government?

Believe me, I have seen the police brutality in places like India and Kashmir....these immigrants come to England because they know full well they are given an easy ride...they indulge themselves in criminal activity because the judicial system here is laughed at around the world.
Have you never read about the money laundering through immigrant owned car washes etc? There's your BMW money!

And the ones already here will breed while they can...it is expected of the women, and what better way to adhere to their beliefs than get money towards the cost. 
You are not telling me that the queues of immigrants halfway round the benefits offices every day are getting nothing! Half of them have 2 or 3 books in their hands! And yes, I have seen this!

It is totally forgiveable that we English feel a slight grievance towards these people, when we have to work, pay our own bills and have them pushing us out bit by bit.

And for those English who claim benefits....yes there are problems, but wouldn't those problems have more chance of being ironed out if we had less of this bigger problem to worry about and pay for?


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> For a lot of immigrants France is their final destinations..for other its UK and the way is through France...
> 
> Could be because of some shoddy deal, could be relatives, could be language issue, could be beliefs about the country or anything really


but surely they would not risk their life underneath lorries and other ways( look at all those poor chinese people that died in that lorry a few years ago) if they had already reached safety in france, why risk it??


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*May i just add that the french have said, THEY blame britain for being such an easy touch.Now i am taling about officials and not individuals.*


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree immigrants should respect the culture they are coming into, at least in its broad terms and I certainly agree Britain has been WAY to soft on this leading to more problems such as terrorism... (by the same token holidaying Brits are not the best placed in that respect but thats a different issue altogether..)
I believe this has destroyed largely the English "culture" which has become a real laugh around the world and that IS a shame.

But I do not believe the immigration system (the LEGAL one) is way too soft - its point-based system (outside of EU) and its quite harsh.
I also dont believe immigrants are a drain on benefits because most are not opened to them at all.
I dont believe in generalisation about immigrants because MANY are doing the jobs either the Brits wont or cant do. And MANY are very valuable members of society - those do not binge-drink, get into debts they then need written off, have children at 16 and suffer heart problems because of bad diet...
I believe in everyone fighting to have a decent life for their family and will respect immigrants at least for having the guts to move out of their home country and take a gamble here.

Bottom-line
Fight illegal immigration? MOST certainly!
Claim immigrants are draining all the welfare benefits? get your facts right and then we can discuss it.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I believe this has destroyed largely the English "culture" which has become a real laugh around the world and that IS a shame
> I dont believe in generalisation about immigrants because MANY are doing the jobs either the Brits wont or cant do. And MANY are very valuable members of society - those do not binge-drink, get into debts they then need written off, have children at 16 and suffer heart problems because of bad diet...


Ok this is just too far, we are English/British we have payed tax in our country for years, we are entitled to all the care and protection of this country


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

archiebaby said:


> but surely they would not risk their life underneath lorries and other ways( look at all those poor chinese people that died in that lorry a few years ago) if they had already reached safety in france, why risk it??


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## tinamary (Aug 17, 2008)

I am not racist and work with all different nationalities. On saying that the people i deal with were all born in this country and respect our rules and regs.
I think that the problem lies with the government letting too many people settle here in such a short time.
If they were allowed to come here and settle under their own steam and not be allowed to use the NHS or benefit system it would make for a more tolerant society.
The rules in their own countries are followed by us when we visit or live there so why should we allow people to take advantage of our softness. If i went to say india i would not walk around in skimpy clothes showing lots of skin as i would find that disrespectful to them. I would not expect them to change their culture for me.
The foreigners that come here expect change in our school curriculum our culture and our views.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> I agree immigrants should respect the culture they are coming into, at least in its broad terms and I certainly agree Britain has been WAY to soft on this leading to more problems such as terrorism... (by the same token holidaying Brits are not the best placed in that respect but thats a different issue altogether..)
> I believe this has destroyed largely the English "culture" which has become a real laugh around the world and that IS a shame.
> 
> But I do not believe the immigration system (the LEGAL one) is way too soft - its point-based system (outside of EU) and its quite harsh.
> ...


i believe that your one statement sums it up, Britian has become a laughing stock


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

tinamary said:


> I am not racist and work with all different nationalities. On saying that the people i deal with were all born in this country and respect our rules and regs.
> I think that the problem lies with the government letting too many people settle here in such a short time.
> If they were allowed to come here and settle under their own steam and not be allowed to use the NHS or benefit system it would make for a more tolerant society.
> The rules in their own countries are followed by us when we visit or live there so why should we allow people to take advantage of our softness. If i went to say india i would not walk around in skimpy clothes showing lots of skin as i would find that disrespectful to them. I would not expect them to change their culture for me.
> The foreigners that come here expect change in our school curriculum our culture and our views.


and build their own mosques , i would love to see a christian church being built in a muslim country


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


>


Sorry I didnt reply to your earlier question..
The answer is I dont know why they decide to tempt it all the way to England!
A lot also take life-threatening risks to come to France and stop there..why not stop in dunno Germany on the way? Or why aim at the US and their appalling welfare system?

I dont know why illegal immigrants choose one country over another to be honest. They are also fed tales about the country they are going to. And in many cases the people in question are part of smuggling/criminal activity and do not decide on their last port.

I dont know if UK gets more illegal immigrants than France or if so why, but I would be interested to know more!

Thats all I can say 
My speciality is the law and partly the welfare benefits system..so..


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## mollyismyworld (May 2, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I agree immigrants should respect the culture they are coming into, at least in its broad terms and I certainly agree Britain has been WAY to soft on this leading to more problems such as terrorism... (by the same token holidaying Brits are not the best placed in that respect but thats a different issue altogether..)
> I believe this has destroyed largely the English "culture" which has become a real laugh around the world and that IS a shame.
> 
> But I do not believe the immigration system (the LEGAL one) is way too soft - its point-based system (outside of EU) and its quite harsh.
> ...


Ridiculous!

Don't binge drink? Don't have children early? ( And are u sure you're not generalising about us Brits there??). Don't have bad diets?

Let me tell you about the immigrants around here. They take their girlfriends to secluded spots, they drink, they have sex, and the abortions they have probably suffered would NEVER be mentioned to God fearing parents! I'm pretty sure they are not obliged to tell you ( even though you do keep saying you work for the CAB....it doesn't mean you see the bigger picture out of the office!).

On Sunday, we enjoyed a day out in a beautiful countryside spot. It was over run with immigrants, drinking, throwing dirty nappies on the grass and in the river, leaving their used BBQ's and plastic bottles and beer cans.

They seemed to be enjoying their burgers and kebabs ( and many of their round bellies suggested it wasn't a one off!)...so bad diets could be present in even their households!

We then went for a hike, and had to avert our eyes from the vast numbers of young immigrants doing what they obviously couldn't do around their parents, and what I deemed pretty disgusting. Again, they were drinking.

Another thing, the countries that they come from are pretty poor to say the least, so it doesn't really back up your point about family financial help sent to those here.

It really doesn't work like that.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

tinamary said:


> I am not racist and work with all different nationalities. On saying that the people i deal with were all born in this country and respect our rules and regs.
> I think that the problem lies with the government letting too many people settle here in such a short time.
> If they were allowed to come here and settle under their own steam and not be allowed to use the NHS or benefit system it would make for a more tolerant society.
> The rules in their own countries are followed by us when we visit or live there so why should we allow people to take advantage of our softness. If i went to say india i would not walk around in skimpy clothes showing lots of skin as i would find that disrespectful to them. I would not expect them to change their culture for me.
> The foreigners that come here expect change in our school curriculum our culture and our views.


I would love for your view to be shared by all the tourists in India...

as for people being allowed onto the benefits system early..well ive said my piece now, enough of it!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

mollyismyworld said:


> Ridiculous!
> 
> Don't binge drink? Don't have children early? ( And are u sure you're not generalising about us Brits there??). Don't have bad diets?
> 
> ...


If you read my post again what I meant was no all immigrants are bad and disrespectful..there are ALSO THOSE that are valuable members of society and dont binge etc...
And of course I meant it as a "joking" generalisation of the Brits and I am very happy to have you challenge me on this!!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Sorry I didnt reply to your earlier question..
> The answer is I dont know why they decide to tempt it all the way to England!
> A lot also take life-threatening risks to come to France and stop there..why not stop in dunno Germany on the way? Or why aim at the US and their appalling welfare system?
> 
> ...


the only logical reason someone would risk there life would be something worth it to risk it for!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

An a different note Id like to know how you can tell they are immigrants?

As far as ive seen it in my 6 years here, the worst behaved are often the second-generations - because of the clash of culture leading to a lack of values ; some do not feel integrated here and have lost touch with their home country...this I would blame partly on the government and their "pleasing everyone" policy which favoured the lack of integration by attempting to respect every faith and belief and thus losing the core of the British culture..(and angering British people...) shame!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> An a different note Id like to know how you can tell they are immigrants?
> 
> As far as ive seen it in my 6 years here, the worst behaved are often the second-generations - because of the clash of culture leading to a lack of values ; some do not feel integrated here and have lost touch with their home country...this I would blame partly on the government and their "pleasing everyone" policy which favoured the lack of integration by attempting to respect every faith and belief and thus losing the core of the British culture..(and angering British people...) shame!


but wouldnt the second generations know how to speak english? the ones i am talking about can hardly speak a word, except for ' how much'


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## mollyismyworld (May 2, 2009)

Oblada said:


> If you read my post again what I meant was no all immigrants are bad and disrespectful..there are ALSO THOSE that are valuable members of society and dont binge etc...
> And of course I meant it as a "joking" generalisation of the Brits and I am very happy to have you challenge me on this!!


And if you read MY original post, you will see I said the grievance we seem to have, more importantly, is the AMOUNT of immigrants here.

I also stated those that come here and study to our requirements can offer us something beneficial....but they are pretty few and far between considering how many actually live here!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

mollyismyworld said:


> I also stated those that come here and study to our requirements can offer us something beneficial....but they are pretty few and far between considering how many actually live here!


I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this, its a matter of opinion (or stats and studies on which I am no expert!).


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

What i find very sad is that hundreds of people now say that a trip to London feels like your visiting a foreign country  It's mostly immigrants.

Even my neice who went on a trip to London lately to see the production of Oliver with her primary school, noticed the lack of 'British' people there


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Marcia said:


> What i find very sad is that hundreds of people now say that a trip to London feels like your visiting a foreign country  It's mostly immigrants.
> 
> Even my neice who went on a trip to London lately to see the production of Oliver with her primary school, noticed the lack of 'British' people there


I have to agree. I went to London for the first time last year (I'd been before but never spent any real time there) and there were so many 'foreign' people it was unbelievable.

Also, Oxford Street is terrifying :scared:


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I have to agree. I went to London for the first time last year (I'd been before but never spent any real time there) and there were so many 'foreign' people it was unbelievable.
> 
> Also, Oxford Street is terrifying :scared:


I remember visiting Oxford street about 7 years ago and that was before the immigration problem, i can't imagine what it's like now.

Although i was in Leicestershire a couple of months ago and i was absolutely gobsmacked. In one area, there were no British shops anywhere, only muslim fashions and polish supermarkets! 

I'm sorry if that last sentance has offended anyone but i was so shocked


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

we have 5.5million ex pats living abroad...far more than immigrants in our country. Imagine if all those countries sent back all the british people and tightened their immigration...it would be a far greater strain on resources than the 1million immigrants currently here!


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Just out of curiosity can any one tell me if it's true that people from the E.U. who come over here to live and have children back in their home country can claim child benefit for these children. I've been told this by a few people but don't know if it's true or not.

We have a big problem with certain members of an E.U. country, they are here legally, I have no idea if they are claiming benefits or if they are working.
Thought you might like to see a picture of them.









Would you be happy with this on your doorstep ( they are drunk ), believe me when I say this is almost a daily occurrence during the summer months.The police have tried to stop them drinking but are told '' but we're allowed to do it in our country'' so the police wander of to scared to do anything. A few of the houses in the road I live in are h.m.o's the family that own them take in mainly immigrants and are given money by our council, this family get more than a million pounds a year. When we moved into this area it was a good place to live but it has gone down hill, the council have now realised what is happening and they are starting to refuse to renew licences but I feel it might just be to little to late.

I am very proud to be Scottish and always will be.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

No, EU members cannot go back home and claim CB from England..not sure how that would work but CERTAINLY NOT TRUE.

EU members have the right to exercise their Treaty rights ie move to any EU country they wish as long as they are not a burden on the State they move into which basically means they cannot move anywhere and just claim benefits...they have to prove they can support themselves and any benefit claim would have to be temporary and after showing some form of settlement status.
For newer EU countries (well, for their nationals) the rules are somewhat more stringent.

xx


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> we have 5.5million ex pats living abroad...far more than immigrants in our country. Imagine if all those countries sent back all the british people and tightened their immigration...it would be a far greater strain on resources than the 1million immigrants currently here!


well said!
xx


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

Marcia said:


> What i find very sad is that hundreds of people now say that a trip to London feels like your visiting a foreign country  It's mostly immigrants.
> 
> Even my neice who went on a trip to London lately to see the production of Oliver with her primary school, noticed the lack of 'British' people there


London has a 20% proportion of foreigners.
Though how you can differentiate the British born from the immigrants is no easy task...and quite probably a bit of a waste of time...

It is high and may appear higher in certain areas I suppose but not out of the ordinary for a major capital.

I lived in Peckham for a year, very much african culture there and I loved it; i loved the african dresses and the way people generally behaved. I preferred it to central london... Its a question of taste and viewpoint I suppose.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> we have 5.5million ex pats living abroad...far more than immigrants in our country. Imagine if all those countries sent back all the british people and tightened their immigration...it would be a far greater strain on resources than the 1million immigrants currently here!


I would suspect that the 5.5million ex pats living abroad are completly self financing, including health and education!! I doubt very much that the one million immigrants residing here can boast the same!

I am curious as to where you get the immigration figure from!!! seems a little on the low side !


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> well said!
> xx


and the fact that 16% of nurses are immigrants, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors! How on earth would the NHS cope without them???

I work in HR and out of the 500 staff members at my site around 70% are foreign nationals....its not because there are not any British people to work for us and we favour the nationals...its that unfortunately we have found that the British don't want to do the work...we British are far too picky when it comes to jobs turning our noses up because we don't fancy doing that or the wages are lower than we'd like. A job's a job at the end of the day...there are plenty of them out there we just need to be proactive and look for them.


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I would suspect that the 5.5million ex pats living abroad are completly self financing, including health and education!! I doubt very much that the one million immigrants residing here can boast the same!
> 
> I am curious as to where you get the immigration figure from!!! seems a little on the low side !


what do you mean by self financing..do you mean not on benefits?! Perhaps we could compare the number of unemployed foreigners here against the number of unemployed nationals? I do not agree with most of out benefits systems here for foreigners and nationals,...they are handed out far too easily.

Are you against foreigners working here honestly or just those who are here and living off benefits ?


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> and the fact that 16% of nurses are immigrants, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors! How on earth would the NHS cope without them???
> 
> I work in HR and out of the 500 staff members at my site around 70% are foreign nationals....its not because there are not any British people to work for us and we favour the nationals...its that unfortunately we have found that the British don't want to do the work...we British are far too picky when it comes to jobs turning our noses up because we don't fancy doing that or the wages are lower than we'd like. A job's a job at the end of the day...there are plenty of them out there we just need to be proactive and look for them.


If I could give bad rep it would be heading your way now!! very disrepectful to those of us who work!

Do you work for Blue Arrow by any chance!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> what do you mean by self financing..do you mean not on benefits?! Perhaps we could compare the number of unemployed foreigners here against the number of unemployed nationals? I do not agree with most of out benefits systems here for foreigners and nationals,...they are handed out far too easily.
> 
> Are you against foreigners working here honestly or just those who are here and living off benefits ?


Seeing as my son in law is black I can hardly say I am against foreigners can I now! My grandchildren also being black! My sil being an active member of a certain political party!!!!
And not to be honest I am against neither !! just do-gooders such as yourself! As my daughter would say!! Don't blame the people mother! blame the government! you cannot blame the people for exploiting the loopholes the government have created!
DT


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> and the fact that 16% of nurses are immigrants, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors! How on earth would the NHS cope without them???
> 
> I work in HR and out of the 500 staff members at my site around 70% are foreign nationals....its not because there are not any British people to work for us and we favour the nationals...its that unfortunately we have found that the British don't want to do the work...we British are far too picky when it comes to jobs turning our noses up because we don't fancy doing that or the wages are lower than we'd like. A job's a job at the end of the day...there are plenty of them out there we just need to be proactive and look for them.


I work my butt off for very little pay. Why? Because i can't be picky. Everyone i know is working meaningless jobs for little pay and there's simply no other jobs around! 
So i agree with DT, very disrepectful to those of us who work


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> and the fact that 16% of nurses are immigrants, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors! How on earth would the NHS cope without them???
> 
> I work in HR and out of the 500 staff members at my site around 70% are foreign nationals....its not because there are not any British people to work for us and we favour the nationals...its that unfortunately we have found that the British don't want to do the work...we British are far too picky when it comes to jobs turning our noses up because we don't fancy doing that or the wages are lower than we'd like. A job's a job at the end of the day...there are plenty of them out there we just need to be proactive and look for them.


I agree with what you have just said, and i havnt a problem with the ones that come over and do a job like the n.h.s workers they pay into the tax system ect. Its the majority that come over and pull of the system. Blame our country for letting them do it.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

No need to be so quick at taking offence, else this thread well degenerate into a fight...
There are some facts, no need to take them as personal insults.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm ENGLISH and proud ! I'm not british and nor are my children:w00t:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Oblada said:


> No need to be so quick at taking offence, else this thread well degenerate into a fight...
> There are some facts, no need to take them as personal insults.


Do you mean me cos ime not taking offence or do you mean people in general


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

christine c said:


> I'm ENGLISH and proud ! I'm not british and nor are my children:w00t:


Just like I'm Welsh and proud


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Just like I'm Welsh and proud


i I agree


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

christine c said:


> I'm ENGLISH and proud ! I'm not british and nor are my children:w00t:


My OH always crosses out the british on forms and puts English :w00t:


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Oblada said:


> London has a 20% proportion of foreigners.
> Though how you can differentiate the British born from the immigrants is no easy task...and quite probably a bit of a waste of time...
> 
> It is high and may appear higher in certain areas I suppose but not out of the ordinary for a major capital.
> ...


i was actually born in peckham and grew up there as a young child


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Seeing as my son in law is black I can hardly say I am against foreigners can I now! My grandchildren also being black! My sil being an active member of a certain political party!!!!
> And not to be honest I am against neither !! just do-gooders such as yourself! As my daughter would say!! Don't blame the people mother! blame the government! you cannot blame the people for exploiting the loopholes the government have created!
> DT


well said dt, it is the goverment not the people!!!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

and my mother in law and her family are black, so my husband and children are half caste so i am definately not prejudice!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> and my mother in law and her family are black, so my husband and children are half caste so i am definately not prejudice!


I think myself when we are preached at in the way we often are we tend to take a stance! There are good and bad in every race! But certainly our government do have a lot to answer for!
DT


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I think myself when we are preached at in the way we often are we tend to take a stance! There are good and bad in every race! But certainly our government do have a lot to answer for!
> DT


i know , you cant really blame the people for taking what they can but the goverment have made this problem, big time! 
when i was a little girl, my nan took me to the fair on blackheath common, whilst we were on a ride a black man nicked my nans purse, i was so scared and thought all black men were nasty but my nan always told me there is good and bad in everyone and it could easily have been a white man that nicked her purse! she didnt have a bad bone in her and taught me a lesson i will never forget


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well when I was a child I was ENGLISH!! We had pen pals then and we were always England!
> Then Great Britain and the United Kingdom appeared!!
> 
> I may be a bit thick but I believe the
> ...


Any form I have to fill in with nationality, I put brit/eng, I'm from the english part of Britain
Whilst I love my country, the government are creating a nation that is not allowed to think for themselves, no one ever takes blame for their own actions, its always someone elses fault, and the silent majority need to rise up against it all instead of the apathy we see now. I could go on but this would never get posted.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I have mixed feelings about our country. I am proud of some parts of it, but completely ashamed and hacked off with other parts of it!!!

I love our history, our traditions, our beautiful countryside, our smart modern cities, our attractions and places to visit. 

I am proud the fact that we can be in easy reach of towns, cities, countryside and beaches from almost anywhere in the country! Some people in big countries like Russia and America don't ever get the chance to go to the seaside and enjoy the beach because they live so far inland.... I think that is something we take for granted - the good things about our country being small.

I am proud of all our little accents and dialects that vary from region to region, and even certain areas of towns! That is something unique that not many other countries can say they have!

But I am ashamed of our Government, our levels of crime, our willingness to let immigrants in willy nilly, our obsession with making claims for injuries , our horrific teenage pregnancy statistics (most of the girls I went to school with have had children....some are on their second now, and we only left in 2006, we're 19 years old)

I don't know whether I want to stay here or not. I'd love to move out of the country, but at the same time, I don't want to turn my back on the good things.


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Oh and for those that dislike the immigrants to this country, if the resident idle workshy wotsits got off their backsides and stopped living their life on benefits then maybe there would be no work for immigrants. Sorry used to work in an employment agency, saw a lot of idiots no insult intended to anyone.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

bird said:


> Any form I have to fill in with nationality, I put brit/eng, I'm from the english part of Britain
> Whilst I love my country, the government are creating a nation that is not allowed to think for themselves, no one ever takes blame for their own actions, its always someone elses fault, and the silent majority need to rise up against it all instead of the apathy we see now. I could go on but this would never get posted.


Well said bird!:smile5:
DT


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

Verbatim said:


> I have mixed feelings about our country. I am proud of some parts of it, but completely ashamed and hacked off with other parts of it!!!
> 
> I love our history, our traditions, our beautiful countryside, our smart modern cities, our attractions and places to visit.
> 
> ...


Well said 

I won't turn my back on this shambles of a country that the government are responsible for 
I will hopefully see the day when this country becomes 'Great Britain' again 

The country that we all use to be so proud of...

I think some people on here should run for PM. This country would soon change back to it's former glory


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> If I could give bad rep it would be heading your way now!! very disrepectful to those of us who work!
> 
> Do you work for Blue Arrow by any chance!


Oh my goodness. I thought this was supposed to be a healthy debate? I was not being disrespectful to thsoe that work and want to..where exactly did I say that? Please point it out to me as I'm not aware I did? What I was saying was that people that say "they come over here and take out jobs" are usually those who are unwilling to work, not beacuse they can't but beacuse they don't want to. That is the problem. I have nothing but admiration for those that are working on low wages. I catually said "the majority of british" not all...and that is just my perosnal opinion form working in recruitment and HR.
And no I don't work for blue arrow.
And I did not call you prejudice or racist either?!?! I'm actually quite offended that you think I am calling you this as If it came across that way I apologise as i didn't mean it to.
I was simply expressing my opinion in what is supposed to be a health debate.


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Seeing as my son in law is black I can hardly say I am against foreigners can I now! My grandchildren also being black! My sil being an active member of a certain political party!!!!
> And not to be honest I am against neither !! just do-gooders such as yourself! As my daughter would say!! Don't blame the people mother! blame the government! you cannot blame the people for exploiting the loopholes the government have created!
> DT


Where did I mention black people in particual. I would not see a black person as being a foreigner. To me a forgeigner is devoid of colour and would be someone who is a citizen of another country. Where exactly did I say otherwise?!?!

Again I thought this was supposed to be a healthy debate? Am I not allowed to express my opionion of which I do not see anything I said as being disrespectful to any forum members on here. It was mearely my opinion.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

*gasps* I seem to have opened a can of worms 

I have read through a lot of these posts and I have to say it is good that everyone is discussing this quite maturely and civily.

This country is an easy touch! When I worked in an NHS hospital as a receptionist I was told that I wasn't allowed to wear my cross (I'm a practising Christian but it was only a small white gold cross with a tiny little diamond in the centre) because it might offend people! For goodness sakes is that political correctness gone wrong or what!

I also had the (dis)pleasure of being at an NHS hospital on Monday! I drove past the chapel... they had cross out the word chapel and replaced it with multi-culture room! WTF is that about!?!?!?

People are free to practice their own religions but those are the things that upset me about this country! I thought we were a Christian nation


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

WittyKitty said:


> *gasps* I seem to have opened a can of worms
> 
> I have read through a lot of these posts and I have to say it is good that everyone is discussing this quite maturely and civily.
> 
> ...


*I can understand where your coming from on this,and i think its this sort of thing that is getting to people.Whatever happend to " when in Rome"? I remember Tony Blaire saying if people that come into this country don't like our ways then don't come here,and thats my oppion as well.*


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

WittyKitty said:


> *gasps* I seem to have opened a can of worms
> 
> I have read through a lot of these posts and I have to say it is good that everyone is discussing this quite maturely and civily.
> 
> ...


A fine example of what a bunch of pushovers we have become!
And as someone said previous! What did all those poor soilders give their lives for in world war one & two!!!!
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I can understand where your coming from on this,and i think its this sort of thing that is getting to people.Whatever happend to " when in Rome"? I remember Tony Blaire saying if people that come into this country don't like our ways then don't come here,and thats my oppion as well.*


Same here!

Another example - I was in New Look about a year ago and a woman in a jilab (sp?) was wondering around the shoe section. Anyway, I rolled up my jeans to try on some sandals and she looked at me, tutted and gave me the most filthy look! I said to her, 'if you don't like it what the hell are you doing in a shoe shop love?'

If I went to a country where they expected women to cover up I would! I would not flash my ankles, uncover my hair. I would respect their culture!


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm extreamly proud of my country Wales. I'm not so sure about Britain as a whole. :nonod: When I read about some of the things that are happening in England I'm glad I left to live on my little island. It's not perfect and it's certainly not always easy (low salaries, lack of jobs, expensive housing) but at least it's generally safe, we don't have crime anything like big cities and I can still leave my doors open and the keys in my van (which I have a habit of doing!!) I know my neighbours names, we swap Xmas cards and I can ask help from them. I can walk passed the village pub on a saturday night and not be nervous...more likely be invited in for a drink! The groups of kids who are hanging around the village are polite and all come to give dogs attention, most of them know all the dogs names!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> A fine example of what a bunch of pushovers we have become!
> And as someone said previous! What did all those poor soilders give their lives for in world war one & two!!!!
> DT


*DT the times i've used those words myself! I think its a mockery to their memory.*


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

If both my grandfathers was still alive (they fought in WW2) they'd be disgusted in this country! 

Rightly said Janice, its a mockery to their memory


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> Where did I mention black people in particual. I would not see a black person as being a foreigner. To me a forgeigner is devoid of colour and would be someone who is a citizen of another country. Where exactly did I say otherwise?!?!
> 
> Again I thought this was supposed to be a healthy debate? Am I not allowed to express my opionion of which I do not see anything I said as being disrespectful to any forum members on here. It was mearely my opinion.


Again thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that blacks does NOT equal foreigners and that by the same token foreigners cannot easily be hand picked by looking at people only...how would we know?

I would add that having a relative/close friend/neighbour who is black/tanned/Asian/polish or otherwise does not necessarily make one any less prejudiced...
My grandma's partner is from North Africa and deeply prejudiced about a lot of North Africans coming to France (except his mates of course!) and although he cannot stand black people he seems to have made a big exception with my uncle's adopted children....He also hates Indians and maybe one day will have to make an exception for my husband (not any time soon tough by the look of it!).
According to him he is not prejudiced at all though


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

WittyKitty said:


> *gasps* I seem to have opened a can of worms
> 
> I have read through a lot of these posts and I have to say it is good that everyone is discussing this quite maturely and civily.
> 
> ...


I agree with you..
All this political correctness and trying to please everyone has created division, misunderstanding and resentment.
This has been the 'doom' of British culture and it is a real shame.
There is a need to respect others and their practices but for the sake of a country there should be some efforts made towards integrating everyone instead of being afraid to hurt their feelings...

In France the gvt was criticised for taking a heavy stance on religious signs and wear in schools; the idea is that France is NOT a religious country and therefore gvt schools should abide by this neutral principle. Eventually things settled down and we have today much less problems with the Muslim community than the British gvt/people have...


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

I am proud to be ENGLISH i am not british and i also make sure i write it on the forms that seem to leave that particular choice off its list


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Barney said:


> I am proud to be ENGLISH i am not british and i also make sure i write it on the forms that seem to leave that particular choice off its list


*So your an English skinhead then Barney? pmsl *


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Oblada said:


> No, EU members cannot go back home and claim CB from England..not sure how that would work but CERTAINLY NOT TRUE.


You've picked me up wrong.
I was told immigrants living in this country *United Kingdom* are claiming child benefit for their children who *do no*t live in this country.

Terri


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *So your an English skinhead then Barney? pmsl *


yes very much so jan lol altho before every1 jumps on me for being a racist i suggest they look up the origins of skinheads


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Immigrants from EU Countries, living in the UK, whom pay all of their taxes and National Insurance are able to claim Child Benefit for their Children whom are living in their home country.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

WittyKitty said:


> I thought we were a Christian nation


Church Of England Witty thanks to Henry VIII.

End of History lesson.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Immigrants from EU Countries, living in the UK, whom pay all of their taxes and National Insurance are able to claim Child Benefit for their Children whom are living in their home country.


Spot on mate!

Children who live outside the UK who get UK Child Benefit
UK Child Benefit can be paid in respect of children who are not living in the UK, for instance for children of EU nationals who work in the UK while the child still lives in the country of origin. For example, a Greek parent could be working in the UK while his family is still in Greece and be entitled to UK Child Benefit for any children living in Greece.

Often in these situations, however, the child qualifies for Child Benefit by virtue of EC legislation. In this case, the child is not eligible for a CTF account, even if he or she receives a voucher, and therefore the voucher should not be used. When he or she moves to live in the UK, the status of the Child Benefit will have to be reviewed before the child is eligible for a CTF account


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

hutch6 said:


> Church Of England Witty thanks to Henry VIII.
> 
> End of History lesson.


Pagans originally until till the romans came over and brough christianity/catholisism with them


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Immigrants from EU Countries, living in the UK, whom pay all of their taxes and National Insurance are able to claim Child Benefit for their Children whom are living in their home country.


Thank you.
I wonder if the money goes to help bring the children up or do the parents use it for themselves. 
We also have a big problem with immigrants cramming themselves into flats, my son lives next door to a flat that should be for a family of three or four but there are at least 6 unrelated people in it which should mean they would have to have an h.m.o., my son has had to call the police on a few occasions because of the noise and fighting, the police seem powerless to stop it. If the landlord comes around they just clear out for a while then slowly move back in.

Terri


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Immigrants from EU Countries, living in the UK, whom pay all of their taxes and National Insurance are able to claim Child Benefit for their Children whom are living in their home country.


Child Benefit is only awarded to resident parents so that sounds definitively odd to me... If the child does not live with you, EU or not EU law, you cannot normally claim CB. It will be up to the resident parent wherever he/she is to rely on the benefit system of where she/he lives.
But if you have sound evidence of a legal basis for this I'd very much like to know about it.

Kinski - sorry I misunderstood your post - well my answer is above then


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Children who live outside the UK who get UK Child Benefit
UK Child Benefit can be paid in respect of children who are not living in the UK, for instance for children of EU nationals who work in the UK while the child still lives in the country of origin. For example, a Greek parent could be working in the UK while his family is still in Greece and be entitled to UK Child Benefit for any children living in Greece.

Often in these situations, however, the child qualifies for Child Benefit by virtue of EC legislation. In this case, the child is not eligible for a CTF account, even if he or she receives a voucher, and therefore the voucher should not be used. When he or she moves to live in the UK, the status of the Child Benefit will have to be reviewed before the child is eligible for a CTF account


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Kinski said:


> Thank you.
> I wonder if the money goes to help bring the children up or do the parents use it for themselves.
> 
> Terri


i think there was no need for such a statement in association with immigrants because this question can be asked anyone getting child benefit ... be it brits or non brits :nonod:


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

I am proud of the history of our country,, the fact that one tiny island owned a hugh chunk of the world is amazing, the sun never setting on the British empire gives you a reason to hold your chin up.

But,, just reasently I feel we have become a bit spinless, almost sheep like, we are allowing certain countrys to walk all over us and depleat money and work from the Britsh people,

I think it is time we rise up and say no to those people who lead us and say we don't want this any more, Laws to be tougher youths delt with and the blo*dy human right people put back into prospective..so prison is what it means a prision

wow soap box moment LOL


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Child Benefit is only awarded to resident parents so that sounds definitively odd to me... If the child does not live with you, EU or not EU law, you cannot normally claim CB. It will be up to the resident parent wherever he/she is to rely on the benefit system of where she/he lives.
> But if you have sound evidence of a legal basis for this I'd very much like to know about it.
> 
> Kinski - sorry I misunderstood your post - well my answer is above then


Contact your local Tax Office they will be able to give you the hard evidence if that is what you require.:smile5:


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

FACT

Child Trust Fund - Parents or children living outside the UK and non-UK citizens


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Child Benefit is only awarded to resident parents so that sounds definitively odd to me... If the child does not live with you, EU or not EU law, you cannot normally claim CB. It will be up to the resident parent wherever he/she is to rely on the benefit system of where she/he lives.
> But if you have sound evidence of a legal basis for this I'd very much like to know about it.
> 
> Kinski - sorry I misunderstood your post - well my answer is above then


For once I am quoting myself 

I had a quick check (dont get many EU nationals asking for advice on benefits here ) and indeed there are circumstances where you can claim CB in respect of a child not living with you.
If you can prove you are responsible for the child - not too sure what that would entails - and that only applies to EEA countries.
By the same token UK citizens can sometimes work abroad and still receive CB from the UK.
Obviously it would be to the exclusion of equivalent benefits in the residing country.

xx


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Oblada said:


> For once I am quoting myself
> 
> I had a quick check (dont get many EU nationals asking for advice on benefits here ) and indeed there are circumstances where you can claim CB in respect of a child not living with you.
> If you can prove you are responsible for the child - not too sure what that would entails - and that only applies to EEA countries.
> ...


I knew that information from my practise as a Social Worker. When I give advise I try and get it from reliable sources.:smile5:


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> I knew that information from my practise as a Social Worker. When I give advise I try and get it from reliable sources.:smile5:


Well working in the CAB i was unaware of it I must admit...
But then we barely ever get EU nationals coming for benefits advice..


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Basically the way I understand it; EU regulations mean that CB is payable by the country in which the responsible parent work.
That means the other parents does not work and that means 2 CB entitlements cannot be cumulated.

It does not sound such an unreasonable way to co-ordinate social security for migrants...

anyway for £20 a week (for one child) not sure that many Europeans get tempted to come here


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Basically the way I understand it; EU regulations mean that CB is payable by the country in which the responsible parent work.
> That means the other parents does not work and that means 2 CB entitlements cannot be cumulated.
> 
> It does not sound such an unreasonable way to co-ordinate social security for migrants...
> ...


Is that all it is? (don't have kids myself)..wow, I thought it must have been around a hundred a week per child they way people/newspapers hark on about it


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I am proud of the history of our country,, the fact that one tiny island owned a hugh chunk of the world is amazing, the sun never setting on the British empire gives you a reason to hold your chin up.
> 
> But,, just reasently I feel we have become a bit spinless, almost sheep like, we are allowing certain countrys to walk all over us and depleat money and work from the Britsh people,
> 
> ...


Well said, blobs coming you way


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> Is that all it is? (don't have kids myself)..wow, I thought it must have been around a hundred a week per child they way people/newspapers hark on about it


Child Benefit - £20 / week for one child, £33 afterwards..not too sure but sth like that 
Child Tax Credit is more..but then different rules again..


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Natik said:


> i think there was no need for such a statement in association with immigrants because this question can be asked anyone getting child benefit ... be it brits or non brits :nonod:


Sorry what I meant was, is the c.b. sent back to the country the person comes from to benefit the child or does it stay here benefiting the parent. I'm really cack at putting words to my thoughts .

Terri


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> Child Benefit - £20 / week for one child, £33 afterwards..not too sure but sth like that
> Child Tax Credit is more..but then different rules again..


Ah I see. Still the money brought into the economy by the foreign workers far outpays anything the govenment hands out in benefits for them


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

EU Nationals do not need to seek advise regarding The UK benefit systemS
They are totally clued up on it 110% prior to entering the UK! 

And whilst on the point of UK benefits ladies - now is perhaps the time to raise another issue!

Several of us older ladies may remember that CB was not paid for the first child when we were younger! For the second we were paid 7s 6d (if I remember right). I cannot recall when CB was introduced for the first child, but sure someone will recall! Our husbands were also allowed a tax allowance for each child during this time! This I think was scrapped around 1990 (feel free to correct me).

During the 60's & early 70's 
Many mothers stayed at home to look after their children - only working in the evenings etc. During this time full NI was credited to them! Either via their husbands contributuions or via receipt of CB (cannot recall which).

This no longer applies! Some of you may now find that you pension will be reduced through insufficient contributions! Just thought I'd mention it!!!
DT


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Kinski said:


> Sorry what I meant was, is the c.b. sent back to the country the person comes from to benefit the child or does it stay here benefiting the parent. I'm really cack at putting words to my thoughts .
> 
> Terri


The money would be paid to the parent. I guess its up to them what they do with it. The same applies though to british parents. They coud quite easily be using their child benefits for their own means and not their child.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

To broaden a bit the debate;

- what about British people settling abroad and claiming and spending their UK State Pension there (not sayings its wrong just saying ..)?

- what about British people coming back here after having worked 40 years abroad, falling ill/disabled and being entitled to the relevant benefits despite never having contributed in this country (again not saying it is wrong!)?

And talking about the Great British Empire what about the way it exploited other nations?
I know of a number of immigrants who feel perfectly entitled to screw the system here because of what happened in the past...not saying they are right but we need to acknowledge their point of view..


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

If a Mother chooses to stay at home and is in receipt of Child Benefit then their State Pension will not be affected.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> EU Nationals do not need to seek advise regarding The UK benefit systemS
> They are totally clued up on it 110% prior to entering the UK!


Rubbish!!! and quite offensive to be perfectly honest!!!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> If a Mother chooses to stay at home and is in receipt of Child Benefit then their State Pension will not be affected.


Not certain Lily but I think that altered on the 5th April this year! It certainly was the case! But am almost certain that there have been ammendments!
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> Ah I see. Still the money brought into the economy by the foreign workers far outpays anything the govenment hands out in benefits for them


I believe thats the rational of the scheme...you work and contribute somewhere, you get certain benefits from there, rather than your home country in which you are not working.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> EU Nationals do not need to seek advise regarding The UK benefit systemS
> They are totally clued up on it 110% prior to entering the UK!
> 
> And whilst on the point of UK benefits ladies - now is perhaps the time to raise another issue!
> ...


*God DT now your going back some years lol. It was called family allowance then.And i'm one of those who's pension will be low as i went for the married womans NI stamp.Oh well its nice to know somebody else will benifit.*


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Oblada said:


> To broaden a bit the debate;
> 
> And talking about the Great British Empire what about the way it exploited other nations?
> I know of a number of immigrants who feel perfectly entitled to screw the system here because of what happened in the past...not saying they are right but we need to acknowledge their point of view..


There is no justification in exploiting our system because of the empire, there have been rights and wrongs with every conquering nation throughout history. This country had a perfectly good working system then the romans came and interfered, we settled down again with our own anglosaxon system which was very fair to all then the normans came and distrupted it. two wrongs do not make a right. :hand:


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Whilst on the subject of benefits but moving away slightly!
Is anyone familiar with Income Tax?

Tax year running from April to April! Should person only work for say 9 months of this period - then return to their homeland are entitled to claim a refund of any tax paid in the qualifying year! Can anyone offer more information on this please!

I am working on a 9/12 ratio as depending on salaries the refund would be in the region of £1400 ( assuming that this much tax were paid) Obviously there is no refund on the NI!!
Just curious!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

*AS GOOD OLD SALLYANNE MAY SAY
OUR SYSTEM HAS MORE HOLES THAN A COLENDER​*


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Whilst on the subject of benefits but moving away slightly!
> Is anyone familiar with Income Tax?
> 
> Tax year running from April to April! Should person only work for say 9 months of this period - then return to their homeland are entitled to claim a refund of any tax paid in the qualifying year! Can anyone offer more information on this please!
> ...


Every legitimately working person in the UK has a yearly PERSONAL tax allowance. (which runs from April 6 to April 5). They do not pay tax if they earn less than their personal allowance. Anything over and above is taxable. The length of time worked within that time period is immaterial - it is the AMOUNT of money earned.

EXAMPLE

Personal Tax Allowance for year = £5000
Amount Earned from 6th April to 5th April = £10,000
Profit for year = £5000
Tax & 20 % = £1000

The same equations would work for 2 months, 5 months, 6 months, 9 months, 10 months, 2 weeks, 5 days!

Laceyxx


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

NO IM NOT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> To broaden a bit the debate;
> 
> - what about British people settling abroad and claiming and spending their UK State Pension there (not sayings its wrong just saying ..)?
> 
> ...


*Firstly if they have paid for their pensions then they have earned the right to spend it where ever they choose. As for people thinking its ok to come here just to screw the system for something that happend donkeys years ago, well all i say about that is they deserve al they get.basicly i'm saying to them screw you.You could go on and on about history but surely its the future we should be looking at.*


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Firstly if they have paid for their pensions then they have earned the right to spend it where ever they choose. As for people thinking its ok to come here just to screw the system for something that happend donkeys years ago, well all i say about that is they deserve al they get.basicly i'm saying to them screw you.You could go on and on about history but surely its the future we should be looking at.*


Morning jan
Like the new pic of Cesar


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Every legitimately working person in the UK has a yearly PERSONAL tax allowance. (which runs from April 6 to April 5). They do not pay tax if they earn less than their personal allowance. Anything over and above is taxable. The length of time worked within that time period is immaterial - it is the AMOUNT of money earned.
> 
> EXAMPLE
> 
> ...


Thanks Lacey
But what I am asking is say if a person returned to their homwland after working say working 40 weeks of a qualifying year! They would be able to claim back tax of £1200!!!! assuming they were only being paid a little over minimum wage this would be all of the tax they had paid!

Right or Wrong???
love Cags xxxx


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> I am proud of the history of our country,, the fact that one tiny island owned a hugh chunk of the world is amazing, the sun never setting on the British empire gives you a reason to hold your chin up.


I can't hold my chin up for this reason. Exploitation, slavery, war, so called "crusades", enforcement of belief systems and not to mention the mass of problems that came from countries trying to gain their independence back.

How can you be proud of causing such suffering not only to the human population but through the development of industry boom that took no consideration for human rights of the populous "brought forward into a civilised existence", destruction of natural habitat, drained many places of their natural resources and left to ruin when these resources expired, the violence and suffering brought on those that opposed our occupation, staple produce being mass produced for The English Empire with the best and mass of the produce coming here and leaving the indigenous people with the scraps to fight for and survive from and then the MASSIVE environmental destruction that was required to fuel the whole empire and keep it running just so this small island could have economic growth, security and luxury.

Yes you should find it nice to have clean running water, nice cities, a health system and nice places to visit, but try and remember why you can go walk around the lush landscaped gardens of a beautiful English manor and maybe while you are there pay tribute to the thousands, millions and generations that were put through the cogs, chewed up and then spat out by the British Empire without so much as a thank you.

Is it any wonder why we never get votes in Eurovision? Why countries have a hatred for us that runs deep beneath the graves of thousands? We should be on our knees begging forgiveness.

If you want to be proud of anything about this country take it from the people who when this country has been threatened or when our allies have called upon us stepped forward from civilian life, signed their names and pledged to defend this country so the people they lived amongst, their neighbours, their countrymen, could have the lives they wanted. They were the ones who refused to see this country fall into ruin and they did it voluntarily. How many people on here would volunteer in youth workshops to give kids a different focus, a better sense of how they are in the community and to know they have the support? How many on here would volunteer their time to educational workshops to teach and support the illiterate or disadvantaged to give them skills to go to work and become a part of society?

Politicians will always do what is best for them. The masses should look after themselves.


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Whilst on the subject of benefits but moving away slightly!
> Is anyone familiar with Income Tax?
> 
> Tax year running from April to April! Should person only work for say 9 months of this period - then return to their homeland are entitled to claim a refund of any tax paid in the qualifying year! Can anyone offer more information on this please!
> ...


Yes that is correct. Tax is based on the projected earnings for the year so if someone does not work the entire year they can claim the tax back. I myself have done this many a time when I have left the country and not worked for a full tax year in the UK


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

bird said:


> There is no justification in exploiting our system because of the empire, there have been rights and wrongs with every conquering nation throughout history. This country had a perfectly good working system then the romans came and interfered, we settled down again with *our own anglosaxon* system which was very fair to all then the normans came and distrupted it. two wrongs do not make a right. :hand:


Angles and Saxons were invaders also  Not very fair to the indigenous population was it?


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Guinevere13 said:


> Angles and Saxons were invaders also  Not very fair to the indigenous population was it?


Were the celts not the indigenous people of britain before the anglos, saxons, normans, vickings and romans came over and invaded, settled and impregnated?


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> I can't hold my chin up for this reason. Exploitation, slavery, war, so called "crusades", enforcement of belief systems and not to mention the mass of problems that came from countries trying to gain their independence back.
> 
> How can you be proud of causing such suffering not only to the human population but through the development of industry boom that took no consideration for human rights of the populous "brought forward into a civilised existence", destruction of natural habitat, drained many places of their natural resources and left to ruin when these resources expired, the violence and suffering brought on those that opposed our occupation, staple produce being mass produced for The English Empire with the best and mass of the produce coming here and leaving the indigenous people with the scraps to fight for and survive from and then the MASSIVE environmental destruction that was required to fuel the whole empire and keep it running just so this small island could have economic growth, security and luxury.
> 
> ...


Great post Hutch6 - you put it better than i would have myself.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

little_miss_kitty said:


> Yes that is correct. Tax is based on the projected earnings for the year so if someone does not work the entire year they can claim the tax back. I myself have done this many a time when I have left the country and not worked for a full tax year in the UK


Yes indeed.

And to confirm - it has nothing to do with immigration, it is just about the projected earnings not matching up the actual earnings whether it is because of unemployment or leaving the country (brits or not brits)...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

cav said:


> Morning jan
> Like the new pic of Cesar


*Good afternoon Cav. glad you like the new picture.*


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

But many brits do not have the option the leave the UK on a three month (or however long) extended holiday and them return to their jobs as many EU seasonal workers do!

Holes in colendars springs to mind yet again!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But many brits do not have the option the leave the UK on a three month (or however long) extended holiday and them return to their jobs as many EU seasonal workers do!
> 
> Holes in colendars springs to mind yet again!


??

What exactly are you referring to?


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But many brits do not have the option the leave the UK on a three month (or however long) extended holiday and them return to their jobs as many EU seasonal workers do!
> 
> Holes in colendars springs to mind yet again!


Yes thats true. However they are not being refunded any more tax than they have worked...infact the tax that is refunded is tax that the individual has overpaid so its all relative really and does not make a difference to the economy. If for example you loose your job part way through the year you are able to claim any tax back you may have overpaid for the year. Its not just for those leaving the country to travel/work aboard

I don't understand the holes in colendars similie though?


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I dont get it..seasonal workers by definition can move around (even have to) - what the relevance with English/British people?

And yes the tax refunded was the tax overpaid, its not a goodbye gift!!
It applies the same way to everyone regardless of the reasons why it was overpaid (temporary work / unemployment / moving or returning abroad).


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

i havnt read the whole post so im sorry if i repeat anything but i think this country has potential to be great and something we could be proud of, all that needs doing is

1 the change the way government works the whole set up is wrong (still more like a dictatorship then a democracy)
2 stop going along with whatever america says (i dont like being bullied)
3 detatch ourselves from the EU (europe doesnt like us anyway and i dont like that they can contol our laws. different countries + different cultures = different needs)
4 bring back proper punishments!!
5 stop allowing people to sue over stupid things and accidents (makes the people appear weak and pathetic)
6 etc (cant be bothered to go on)

i think there are loads of good decent people here and i think we could greatly improve this country if we remove ourselves from other countries shadows, steped up and made something of ourselves!!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> i havnt read the whole post so im sorry if i repeat anything but i think this country has potential to be great and something we could be proud of, all that needs doing is
> 
> 1 the change the way government works the whole set up is wrong (still more like a dictatorship then a democracy)
> 2 stop going along with whatever america says (i dont like being bullied)
> ...


Well SAid!


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well SAid!


thanks. i do try, lol


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Hutch I hope you practices all those things you have just preached, 

:nonod: You know nothing about me, or what i do,,, I speak as I find, 

I enormously proud or my history and all those great people , Yes slavery happen, but you will not see me on my knees begging for forgiveness, It is in the past,

The British people used to be a force to reackon with, I think we need to get back up there,

apart from the fact I feel you have responded to the post a little aggressivly, I am not cross, a little stung, but i have spoken to you before and found you helpful and friendly!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I do agree with some of the ideas expressed
- being tough on illegal immigrants
- controlling immigration
- stop following America like a faithful dog 

However I do think, like Hutch has very well said, that at the end of the day its up to us to move our butts and change things we are not happy with instead of blaming others.

Dont blame immigration when you know nothing about how the system works.
Dont say immigrants eat up benefits when you have no evidence except printings of the Sun and gossipy neighbours.
Dont blame Europe when you know little of the real pros and cons of adhering to it....

I am not saying those things are not to blame but not to accuse them out of ignorance and fear.

So many prejudices and misconceptions are being spread around generally, it is quite frightening.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I dont get it..seasonal workers by definition can move around (even have to) - what the relevance with English/British people?
> 
> And yes the tax refunded was the tax overpaid, its not a goodbye gift!!
> It applies the same way to everyone regardless of the reasons why it was overpaid (temporary work / unemployment / moving or returning abroad).


My point is!

That when workers come here to the EU and seek employment within each tax year they are allowed to reclaim any tax they have repiad in that year if they return to their homeland for an extended holiday (many do) as I pointed out earlier if they work for 9 months and return home for three and continue to do this they will never have paid any tax! You seem to think that the tax they are claiming is an 'overpayment' In theory it is - BUT it would not have been had they have worked the full tax year!

So to sum it up!
They work hard, receive 'certain benefits' including working tax credit perhaps! pay there NI (which is none refundable to anyone) , they return home reclaim all the tax paid then come back the following year and the circle starts again! The end result is that they NEVER pay income tax into the UK system!

Yes any person can do this! But unfortunately the British person, has more finanacial commitments with mortgages not to mention schooling etc so is not an option for them! Also they do not have a second home they can retreat to so this would severly hamper this being an option anyway.

You were wrong about the Child benefit! I wonder is their a slight possility that you theory on this loophole is not also flawed?

DT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> I do agree with some of the ideas expressed
> - being tough on illegal immigrants
> - controlling immigration
> - stop following America like a faithful dog
> ...


*Sorry but your ASSUMING everyone knows nothing by that statement.And even if what you say is right,surely the fact that people in this country are sick of imigration they should still be allowed to say so and not have to justify why.*


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> Hutch I hope you practices all those things you have just preached,
> 
> :nonod: You know nothing about me, or what i do,,, I speak as I find,
> 
> ...


i think we could be a force to recon with again. im proud of it too. that was how things were done in those days and it was acceptable, personnally i dont think we should of given everything back, but thats just me. i dont agree with how we did it and its not acceptable now but we were great and i dont think we should be ashamed of it. all countries have a history as bad and as bl**dy as ours. (not sure if that counts as swearing so i put the stars in anyways). we shouldnt regret our past, we should learn from it, personnally id like to see this little island be that great again, but with a different aproach, we should lead by example but i also think other countries should know that we are capable and are not going to let them bully us!! we need to stick up for ourselves more and o what we want rather then try not to hurt others feelings


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> My point is!
> 
> That when workers come here to the EU and seek employment within each tax year they are allowed to reclaim any tax they have repiad in that year if they return to their homeland for an extended holiday (many do) as I pointed out earlier if they work for 9 months and return home for three and continue to do this they will never have paid any tax! You seem to think that the tax they are claiming is an 'overpayment' In theory it is - BUT it would not have been had they have worked the full tax year!
> 
> ...


OH MY GOD!

No they do not get all their tax back!
They get refunded what has been OVERpaid - based on prediction on their income - if their actual income is less than predicted (because they only worked 9 months out of 12 for instance) they will get some money back because they have OVERpaid.

They do not get the full thing back.

It applies to EVERYONE, brits or not!

This is close to paranoia.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

We need another Margret Thatcher, she knew how to make a stand, we need another iron maiden!!!!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> We need another Margret Thatcher, she knew how to make a stand, we need another iron maiden!!!!!!


*CAN i have the job please?*


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

are you an Irion maiden then lass???:001_tongue:


Then you go for it


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry but your ASSUMING everyone knows nothing by that statement.And even if what you say is right,surely the fact that people in this country are sick of imigration they should still be allowed to say so and not have to justify why.*


I just find it slightly offensive to have (some) people assume that immigrants eat up all the benefits, do nothing all day and that any tanned/black person is an immigrant.

I dont mean to say we need to be experts to discuss this BUT i strongly disagree with people simply basing their views on gossips and popular tales without a shred of evidence.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> I just find it slightly offensive to have (some) people assume that immigrants eat up all the benefits, do nothing all day and that any tanned/black person is an immigrant.
> 
> I dont mean to say we need to be experts to discuss this BUT i strongly disagree with people simply basing their views on gossips and popular tales without a shred of evidence.


*
I find it very offensive that i have to put up with the sittuation in this country, but thats life.And when people say to me, then why don't you move abroad.Why should i? as i've said i love my country and always will.*


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> We need another Margret Thatcher, she knew how to make a stand, we need another iron maiden!!!!!!


we do need some one to stick up for us rather then a load of useless corrupt old men, but no maggy thatchers for me pls 

although i do think it should be a woman

hmm........ *(thinks about taking over the world)*


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> OH MY GOD!
> 
> No they do not get all their tax back!
> They get refunded what has been OVERpaid - based on prediction on their income - if their actual income is less than predicted (because they only worked 9 months out of 12 for instance) they will get some money back because they have OVERpaid.
> ...


I am afraid you are wrong!
As I detailed in a previous post
if ANY person from any EU (including ourselves) country works within ANY tax year April/April in the UK and takes an extended holiday of lets just say three months!!! ALL tax is repaid!!! ASSUMING of course that the allowance has not been reached!! You can do this year after year after year!

SO
A person works lets say 30 hours a week receiving near on min wage for nine months of the year!!!
Approx £180 a week! for 40 weeks of the year!
£7200pa tax paid would have been in the region of £1000! Had they have worked the full year the Annual income would have been £9000ish! plus WTC , Child benefit etc etc and no tax would have been refunded! But by returning to the homeland almost all the tax paid would be returned!
Also depending on family circumstances the person would also be claiming Working tax credit for receiving a lower wage yet complying with the hours to claim this benifit also This would have been in the region of £240 per month for a couple with NO children!!!

Few UK citizens cannot use this loophole due to re financial committments , schooling etc!

Please your facts carefully before you tell me I am either wrong or paranoid!

And remeber my O/H did not run a successful business for many years and learn nothing!! Much as some would like us to believe!

regards
DT


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Oblada said:


> OH MY GOD!
> 
> No they do not get all their tax back!
> They get refunded what has been OVERpaid - based on prediction on their income - if their actual income is less than predicted (because they only worked 9 months out of 12 for instance) they will get some money back because they have OVERpaid.
> ...


Oblada is correct about the tax


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

NOTE
Should have added in my Tax example that this is only really referring to lower paid employees! of which there are many!!! Obviously those coming into the higher tax bracket would NOT get ALL the tax back!
Sorry for any confusion!
DT
And I have to admit NO it is not the skilled, higher paid workers that slot into this catogary that are creating the problem!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

My God DT you're on a mission against immigrants are you??

If they havent reached the personal allowance then YES of course all will be refunded because ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN OVERPAID.
You can do exactly the same, work for about £7000, stop and not pay taxes at all (get refunded - and if ur over 60 you can get up to £9000 etc).

I am afraid I have WAY more aspirations for myself than work for 6 grants for 9 months  and then move out to come back 3 months later...what a life...


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> My God DT you're on a mission against immigrants are you??
> 
> If they havent reached the personal allowance then YES of course all will be refunded because ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN OVERPAID.
> You can do exactly the same, work for about £7000, stop and not pay taxes at all (get refunded - and if ur over 60 you can get up to £9000 etc).
> ...


My point is that many people do! year after year after year! And NO I am not on a mission! You really need to get a grip of the situation prior to making such statements!! Maybe photo's of my Son-in-law and my Grandchildren will help! I am merely trying to point out the gaping loopholes in our current system and why things need to alter!

Iam pleased that you have high aspirations for yourself! Hope they can equal mine!

regards
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I will add - this is not a loophole!!

If you spend 6 months or more in the UK you WILL BE LIABLE TO PAY INCOME TAX IN THE UK - that will be on your total income for the year (UK employment and any other employment anywhere else!) in question.
If you spend more than 6 months in any other country thats where you will pay income tax (whatever the levels are), for your income worldwide.

So I suppose you can take advantage of this
- by moving a lot - but then no benefits im afraid
- not declaring - illegal
- staying 6 months in a country where you like the income tax rate but work the rest of the year in a better paid country

again..what a life.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I will add - this is not a loophole!!
> 
> If you spend 6 months or more in the UK you WILL BE LIABLE TO PAY INCOME TAX IN THE UK - that will be on your total income for the year (UK employment and any other employment anywhere else!) in question.
> If you spend more than 6 months in any other country thats where you will pay income tax (whatever the levels are), for your income worldwide.
> ...


So are we in agreement of the current loopholes then that ARE exploited by many? This is NOT a personal dig at you! just a demonstation as to why things have to change rapidly and why many British people are so bitter regarding this subject!
It does not matter to me! We have done enough to secure our future but for the generations to follow they are not going to be quite so lucky!
End of.
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> My point is that many people do! year after year after year! And NO I am not on a mission! You really need to get a grip of the situation prior to making such statements!! Maybe photo's of my Son-in-law and my Grandchildren will help! I am merely trying to point out the gaping loopholes in our current system and why things need to alter!
> 
> Iam pleased that you have high aspirations for yourself! Hope they can equal mine!
> 
> ...


I have read your statements in this thread, thats all I am basing my view on, it may be limited, true.
No need to brand your SIL and grandchildren about, I did not say you were racist and at any rate racism is not a rational feeling, I know of people who have black relatives/friends and still hate blacks, but for some reason "exclude" their relatives/friend from the group they despise...
But like I said I did not say you were racist or prejudiced against black people.

Anyway better leave it at that, as it has been mentioned this thread has managed to remain more or less free from "trouble", lets keep it this way.. 

Regards
xx


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> So are we in agreement of the current loopholes then that ARE exploited by many? This is NOT a personal dig at you! just a demonstation as to why things have to change rapidly and why many British people are so bitter regarding this subject!
> It does not matter to me! We have done enough to secure our future but for the generations to follow they are not going to be quite so lucky!
> End of.
> DT


I dont think many people are exploiting what you see as a loophole.
You see it as a loophole, I dont, its just the way tax work more or less all over the world and if you want to take advantage of it then do so...but give up relying on benefits/having a decent family life or even a decent salary...

xx


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I have read your statements in this thread, thats all I am basing my view on, it may be limited, true.
> No need to brand your SIL and grandchildren about, I did not say you were racist and at any rate racism is not a rational feeling, I know of people who have black relatives/friends and still hate blacks, but for some reason "exclude" their relatives/friend from the group they despise...
> But like I said I did not say you were racist or prejudiced against black people.
> 
> ...


After coming back to this debate with you Oblada I have actaully rather enjoyed it! If my early behavior was out of order then I apolygise! But I feel this is a subject that is very close to peoples hearts there will always be heated debates! Whilst people like you and I continue putting our views across there will always be someone with opposing views that will do the same! There is nothing wrong in this! So long as it cuts both ways!
DT


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## little_miss_kitty (Dec 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> After coming back to this debate with you Oblada I have actaully rather enjoyed it! If my early behavior was out of order then I apolygise! But I feel this is a subject that is very close to peoples hearts there will always be heated debates! Whilst people like you and I continue putting our views across there will always be someone with opposing views that will do the same! There is nothing wrong in this! So long as it cuts both ways!
> DT


Do I get an apology aswell then or did I not put across a good enough debate?


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I cannot comment as have never been to another country so dont know any different.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> After coming back to this debate with you Oblada I have actaully rather enjoyed it! If my early behavior was out of order then I apolygise! But I feel this is a subject that is very close to peoples hearts there will always be heated debates! Whilst people like you and I continue putting our views across there will always be someone with opposing views that will do the same! There is nothing wrong in this! So long as it cuts both ways!
> DT


:thumbsup: agreed!


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> Hutch I hope you practices all those things you have just preached,
> 
> :nonod: You know nothing about me, or what i do,,, I speak as I find,
> 
> ...





cassie01 said:


> i think we could be a force to recon with again. im proud of it too. that was how things were done in those days and it was acceptable, personnally i dont think we should of given everything back, but thats just me. i dont agree with how we did it and its not acceptable now but we were great and i dont think we should be ashamed of it. all countries have a history as bad and as bl**dy as ours. (not sure if that counts as swearing so i put the stars in anyways). we shouldnt regret our past, we should learn from it, personnally id like to see this little island be that great again, but with a different aproach, we should lead by example but i also think other countries should know that we are capable and are not going to let them bully us!! we need to stick up for ourselves more and o what we want rather then try not to hurt others feelings


Having said what I said it is obvious we feel very differently about what our history means, the global impacts it has had and we take pride in our country from very different elements.

We can't give back what we have already destroyed, the imbalances that have occured and consequences that followed. History is only written by the winners but cultural change is felt by the losers.

It is not a simple case of being a "force to be reckoned with" as we can't be a force without allies but we rely on our current allies for a great deal of our basic resources. We are a tooth on a cog, not the cog itself. We could not be a self-sufficient country and survive it is as simple as that. We hold no cards other than maybe the English language is the international business language of the world, but that's about it. We don't have the agriculture to support the nation, the natural resources to support the nation and by the sounds of it the general view is that we don't have the work force to support the nation either.

Every human that is, has and ever will be will lie, deceive and allie in order top benefit.

I did give all of my working and spare time voluntarily to help the disadvantaged and I am working towards helping them again in a full-time role. I have to practice what I preach or I'd be a hypocrite and a person with no "word" and your "word" is the only thing you truly have in life so why break it.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

cassie01 said:


> We need to stick up for ourselves more and do what we want rather then try not to hurt others feelings


I believe that _political correctness_ has a lot to answer for.
We seemed to be handicapped by so often being seen to do the right thing and being "fair" to all parties at all times and in all situations that the gobbledegook and lack of clear guidelines make decision making difficult.
We have to protect our citizens from knife wielding mad men, but we cannot just lock them away, they have assessments and human rights and short sentences and parole and repeat offending.
We cannot say no to almost every man and his dog who wants to come to this country. 
We cannot say get off your lazy backsides to those who now have generations of relatives on the dole.
We cannot discipline our children in schools as they have human rights, we would rather they stab or shoot the nearest "good" kid.
We cannot take children away from totally unsuitable parents as that wouldn't be "fair", we would rather have the inquiry into their deaths it seems.
We cannot say anything most of the time against religious and racial bigots on either side of the fence, no matter how disruptive they are to our society.

It seems we are paralysed by analysis.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> I believe that _political correctness_ has a lot to answer for.
> We seemed to be handicapped by so often being seen to do the right thing and being "fair" to all parties at all times and in all situations that the gobbledegook and lack of clear guidelines make decision making difficult.
> We have to protect our citizens from knife wielding mad men, but we cannot just lock them away, they have assessments and human rights and short sentences and parole and repeat offending.
> We cannot say no to almost every man and his dog who wants to come to this country.
> ...


agree!!!!!!


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> Having said what I said it is obvious we feel very differently about what our history means, the global impacts it has had and we take pride in our country from very different elements.
> 
> We can't give back what we have already destroyed, the imbalances that have occured and consequences that followed. History is only written by the winners but cultural change is felt by the losers.
> 
> ...


I to have given my time, and worked voluntarily, I have practised what I preach,

You know this little island has been invaded many many times and we have lost ,,, Vikings, Romans ect ect but we have picked ourselves up brushed it off, glenned our needs and moved forward greater than we where before.(well not to great because we where invaded again and lost :001_tongue

I know you say we have taken and exhausted, but we are not the only country to do so,

I am not going to get into a ding dong with you over this,

Hope there is no hard feelings, as you say we both have different views, and we are allowed to do that, as it is something we fought for!!!!


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

hutch6 said:


> It is not a simple case of being a "force to be reckoned with" as we can't be a force without allies but we rely on our current allies for a great deal of our basic resources. We are a tooth on a cog, not the cog itself. We could not be a self-sufficient country and survive it is as simple as that. We hold no cards other than maybe the English language is the international business language of the world, but that's about it. We don't have the agriculture to support the nation, the natural resources to support the nation and by the sounds of it the general view is that we don't have the work force to support the nation either.


give me 5 mins in charge and i could sort that out. lol


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Our country has flaw's. Our country is not perfect. I am very proud of my country, and so should you all. Our father's and grandfather's fought hard for this country. If it was'nt for them we would be speaking German now. We have the best health care in the world. It is under a lot of strain ,yes, it is being abused, yes, but it's our's! Yes , people flock to this country and yes it need's looking at. Have you wondered why the Australian's call us ' whinging pom's' ?Let me enlighten you,it's because all we do is moan. If no one like's what is happening in this country then go to your local MP and talk to him about it. One voice make's a difference. Our country look's after us in time's of need. It does'nt alway's get it right, but it is the only country that offer's benefit's , council house's and healthcare even when people have'nt yet put into the system , ie; teenage mum's. Mac


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Diane&Mac said:


> Our country has flaw's. Our country is not perfect. I am very proud of my country, and so should you all. Our father's and grandfather's fought hard for this country. If it was'nt for them we would be speaking German now. We have the best health care in the world. It is under a lot of strain ,yes, it is being abused, yes, but it's our's! Yes , people flock to this country and yes it need's looking at. Have you wondered why the Australian's call us ' whinging pom's' ?Let me enlighten you,it's because all we do is moan. If no one like's what is happening in this country then go to your local MP and talk to him about it. One voice make's a difference. Our country look's after us in time's of need. It does'nt alway's get it right, but it is the only country that offer's benefit's , council house's and healthcare even when people have'nt yet put into the system , ie; teenage mum's. Mac


I agree with this, I wonder how many people have ever spoken to, or even written to their MP about their concerns, or are they leaving it to the press


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes it is a very valid point....we all moan but do nothing about it


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

Our MP's won't do anything about it 

They couldn't care less about us. As long as they've got their cushy lifestyles, it doesn't matter about rest of us


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

rona said:


> I agree with this, I wonder how many people have ever spoken to, or even written to their MP about their concerns, or are they leaving it to the press


I have more letters with 'House of Common's' heading filed away then they do!
I have not only written to mine, I have been invited to his chambers on more then one occassion! wonder his wife is not suspisious!  The letters I add do vary greatly from the conversations we have had! In the letters he remains 'non' commital! 
regards
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Good on you Sue. Keep plugging away at it. I have a few letter's myself. All we need is another few thousand people to do the same thing and we are on to a winner. Mac


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> I believe that _political correctness_ has a lot to answer for.
> We seemed to be handicapped by so often being seen to do the right thing and being "fair" to all parties at all times and in all situations that the gobbledegook and lack of clear guidelines make decision making difficult.
> We have to protect our citizens from knife wielding mad men, but we cannot just lock them away, they have assessments and human rights and short sentences and parole and repeat offending.
> We cannot say no to almost every man and his dog who wants to come to this country.
> ...


WELL SAID!!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I write to my MP  

If you don't take positive action to change things you have no right to moan about them


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Diane&Mac said:


> Our country has flaw's. Our country is not perfect. I am very proud of my country, and so should you all. Our father's and grandfather's fought hard for this country. If it was'nt for them we would be speaking German now. We have the best health care in the world. It is under a lot of strain ,yes, it is being abused, yes, but it's our's! Yes , people flock to this country and yes it need's looking at. Have you wondered why the Australian's call us ' whinging pom's' ?Let me enlighten you,it's because all we do is moan. If no one like's what is happening in this country then go to your local MP and talk to him about it. One voice make's a difference. Our country look's after us in time's of need. It does'nt alway's get it right, but it is the only country that offer's benefit's , council house's and healthcare even when people have'nt yet put into the system , ie; teenage mum's. Mac


I agree our fathers and grandfathers did fight for this country, but not to make it what it is today. I feel sorry that things have come to this on our country.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I agree our fathers and grandfathers did fight for this country, but not to make it what it is today. I feel sorry that things have come to this on our country.


I agree to an extent. What they fought for though we still have in place.People make up society , it's up to us to change it if we don't like it. There are a lot more of 'us' than there are MP's. Mac


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Diane&Mac said:


> I agree to an extent. What they fought for though we still have in place.People make up society , it's up to us to change it if we don't like it. There are a lot more of 'us' than there are MP's. Mac


I do believe that at the next elections we shall maybe see the largest turnout since the war! The recent local elections were very disapointing with a turnout of around 34% I believe.
regards
DT


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I do believe that at the next elections we shall maybe see the largest turnout since the war! The recent local elections were very disapointing with a turnout of around 34% I believe.
> regards
> DT


I agree Sue. People need to get off their backside's and vote and be heard. I do think we are heading for some major change's though. Mac


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I do believe that at the next elections we shall maybe see the largest turnout since the war! The recent local elections were very disapointing with a turnout of around 34% I believe.
> regards
> DT


I'm beginning to think that people should be fined for not voting, bear with me folks. But this is only if on the voting slip there is a box for "None of the above" maybe if we could vote in that way it might just force them to listen a bit more to us.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

I agree Bird. Good idea. Mac


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

What about if the people who upstaine from voting, the vote automaticaly goes to the government of the day, may be that will get them out of the pub's & off their soafa's. "Don't vote, well you are stuck with the poo pal".


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I think the Monster Raving Looney Party should get into power. They'd make this country a brilliant place 

I love em! gutted when they weren't on our local election choices..... I thought we could vote for whoever we wanted


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