# Sticky  Persistant cat flu



## Ceiling Kitty

Lol that's okay, it does actually highlight the key points quite well.

Okay, I don't know how much you know about cat 'flu and cat noses, so I apologise if this comes across as patronising in any way. This is a good opportunity to review the various causes of snotty cats. I'll just go back to basics for the benefit of any other people reading this thread in the future. This includes how I approach cats with chronic snotty noses - but note that this is just my approach, and that others may approach them differently in an equally good or better way.

You might want to put the kettle on because this is long.

There is also a big photo of a skull at the bottom.

*Cat 'flu 101 - the infectious causes of snotty cats*

Cat 'flu is an all-encompassing term that describes the typical snotty cats we see on such a frequent basis - runny nose and eyes, sneezing, sore throat, sometimes a fever and inappetance if signs are severe. Some of the bugs that cause it can also cause conjunctivitis and eye ulceration, mouth ulcers and lameness - either in conjunction with the snotty signs or on their own.

There is no one infectious agent that causes 'cat 'flu'. Several different viruses and bacteria may be involved, either on their own or in combination. As a summary, these are:

Viruses
Feline herpesvirus (FHV1) - almost certainly involved in every case
Feline calicivirus (FCV)

Bacteria
_Mycoplasma_ - the involvement of this bug is controversial
_Chlamydophila felis_ (commonly known as 'chlamydia')
_Bordetella bronchiseptica_
Overgrowth of nasal commensals* such as _Pasteurella, Klebsiella, Streptococcus_ etc

A quick note on fungi - these are a very uncommon cause of snotty cats in the UK
Cryptococcosis
Aspergillosis

*commensals are normal bacteria that are usually found in the nose (or bowel, mouth, skin - anywhere really) of healthy cats. They usually don't cause any problems unless something else upsets the balance and lets them grow out of control. In the case of our snotty cats, this is usually a viral infection that damages the nose lining and lets the commensals burrow in and go nuts, causing a secondary bacterial infection.

Note that secondary bacterial infections with nasal commensals are different to infection with _Mycoplasma_ and _Chlamydia_, which are believed to be able to infect the airways all on their own without any viral involvement. _Bordetella_ usually follows a viral infection, especially FCV.

Confused? Just think 'cat 'flu = potentially a big smelting pot of various bugs' and you won't go far wrong.

*Treatment of cat 'flu varies according to what bugs are involved
*
Just like in people, respiratory viral infections get better on their own. Usually no treatment is required beyond TLC and general nursing care, though some cats require hospitalisation for fluids and the like if they're really unwell with it and stop eating or drinking. Cats with conjunctivitis or eye ulcers need specific treatment for that, and many cats benefit from anti-inflammatories to help a sore throat and bring their temperature down, but just as many recover uneventfully on their own.

Once bacteria get involved, on the other hand, obviously antibiotics are needed. It's not always straightforward deciding whether or not a cat has a bacterial infection. Tests are not foolproof (as I'll explain in a minute), and going by symptoms alone (such as 'bacterial infections cause thicker nasal discharge') is justified and sensible but not an exact science. Antibiotics often end up being given on a case-by-case basis, and in some of those cases they're probably not necessary.

Antibiotics are also sensible in severe viral infections even if there is no evidence of bacterial infection, because the ulceration inside the nose puts the cat at risk of bacterial infection.

*The choice of antibiotic is important!*
1. Some antibiotics work better against certain bacteria than others. This is particularly important in the case of Mycoplasma and Chlamydophila, which are quite difficult to kill.
2. Some antibiotics 'penetrate' the airways and their secretions better than others.
3. When dealing with kittens in particular, not all antibiotics are licensed or safe.

A commonly prescribed antibiotic for snotty cats is potentiated amoxicillin (various trade names such as Synulox, Clavaseptin etc). For cats for whom oral medication is not considered possible, the fortnightly injection Convenia (a cephalosporin) is often given. In my hands, none of these work particularly well. They can clear some secondary infection by commensals and do have some power against _Chlamydophila_, but do absolutely naff all about _Mycoplasmas_ and most _Bordetella_ strains tend to be resistant to them anyway. They also don't get into respiratory secretions very well, so it's questionable how well they actually reach the site of infection.

My favourite antibiotic for these cats is doxycycline (trade name Ronaxan), which gets into the respiratory tract really well and is effective against all the bacteria on our list. Other options are the fluoroquinolones (various trade names including Marbocyl, Veraflox, Baytril - I avoid Baytril personally) and azithromycin (Zithromax, a human antibiotic). In my experience, doxycycline does the job most of the time.

*Common situations when antibiotics might not work to clear cat 'flu:*
- the symptoms are not caused by bacteria - for example viral damage to the nose, a fungal nasal infection, or something else going on entirely such as a nasal tumour.
- the wrong choice of antibiotic has been used - as already mentioned, Synulox isn't going to work as well as Ronaxan or Marbocyl, for example.
- the course wasn't long enough... see below.

*How long should antibiotics be given for?*
This is important. A five or seven day course of antibiotics will probably shift commensals, but _Mycoplasma_ needs at least seven weeks and _Chlamydophila_ needs 6-8 weeks - they're persistent little toerags. Obviously, such long courses of antibiotics can be daunting for both cat and owner and the cost can add up, and side effects can be a concern - so this is a situation where it's usually preferable to get a firm diagnosis of these infections before embarking on two months of pills! This leads us onto the next hurdle when handling our snotty cats - testing...

*Testing for infectious causes of cat 'flu*

Testing for respiratory viruses and bacteria can be achieved from a variety of samples. The most commonly performed sampling methods are swabs, either of the nose, conjunctiva or throat. Tests can also be performed on crud flushed out of the nose under anaesthesia, or chunks of tissue sampled via a biopsy. 

Note that not all sampling methods are equal in terms of their reliability. Personally, I don't swab noses. There are so many commensal bugs up the average cat's nose that you're virtually guaranteed to get things like _Pasteurella_ and _Streptococcus_ (which, as we know, can be normal) and then you'll be staring at a piece of paper wondering whether the result actually means anything. Throat swabs can pick up FCV quite well and conjunctival swabs are essential for _Chlamydophila_. Nasal biopsies are the best way of sampling because they come deep from the nose, but they are invasive to get.

As for the viruses, they're not simple either. Personally I don't test for FHV1. Ever. In my opinion it's a waste of time and money and here's why:


FHV1 tests

FHV1, like the herpesvirus that causes cold sores in humans, is generally a lifelong thing. Once you get it, it stays in your body forever. In cats, it sits in the trigeminal ganglion, a big nerve in the head, and becomes active during times of stress when the immune system isn't on the ball. Flare-ups of FHV1 can occur during cattery visits, building work, other illnesses... and giving birth - this is why it's common for kittens to catch FHV1 from their mum.

The exact prevalence of FHV1 in cats is unknown but figures up to 100% have been reported in some studies and it's generally accepted that the majority of cats carry it. Sure, you can test a snotty cat for FHV1 and it might be positive, but you could also test twenty normal cats and get a positive result. I suppose it's nice to get something concrete down on paper, but it rarely changes anything you're going to do to help the cat.

As for negative results, I don't find those particularly helpful either. We know that most cats carry FHV1 and that the virus can spend significant amounts of time hiding in the trigeminal ganglion, so I don't usually believe a negative result when I get one. Personally, I prefer to assume that all snotty cats I see have FHV1 - and if they've got corneal ulceration with their snots then it's pretty much a given anyway as FHV1 is the only major infectious cause of corneal ulcers in cats. Obviously all of this is just my opinion, and others may and probably do disagree with me.


FCV tests
Unlike FHV1, cats can clear FCV from their bodies after they recover. This usually happens within about a month - however, a proportion of cats carry the virus in the back of their throat and continue to shed it for long periods (sometimes years!). I keep reading different things about what percentage of cats carry FCV - I've seen all sorts of numbers quoted from 30% to 80%. However, based on current knowledge these 'chronic shedders' aren't actually ill any more, just infectious. These cats will come back positive for FCV even though they're actually fine - another potentially confusing result!


*Is a positive Mycoplasma test significant?*
Maybe, maybe not. Sorry to be vague, but the role of mycoplasmas in UPPER airway disease in cats (snotty noses and sore throats) is currently controversial. At the moment it's believed that they are actually a normal commensal of the feline nose, so while testing and treating for them isn't wrong, it might not be necessary. This is contrast to the current state of play with LOWER airway disease (pneumonia and bronchitis), where _Mycoplasma_ is very much treated as an abnormal result and always considered significant if found.

*Now to the crux of the matter - why cats can suffer with 'permanent' cat 'flu that never goes away...*

This is actually not uncommon. These cats are called 'chronic snufflers'. They have snotty noses and noisy breathing, possibly with other signs such as conjunctivitis, that never goes away. It might improve to a certain point, but it never resolves. The majority of these cats are suffering from 'chronic post-viral rhinosinusitis', a horrible tongue-twister of a name that nonetheless explains quite well what it is.

Chronic post-viral rhinosinusitis
(if you look this up, you'll probably also see it called 'lymphocytic-plasmocytic rhinosinusitis or chronic rhinitis')

If I may, I will just take a moment to explain what is inside a cat's nasal cavity. It's not a big empty chamber - it's in fact packed full of tiny, delicate little scrolls of bone. These are called 'turbinate bones' or 'turbinates' and are covered in a fine, velvety moist lining which has several functions including:
- warming and humidifying the air as it is inhaled,
- smelling!
- trapping bacteria and irritants (such as dust or pollen) as they pass into the nose.

Here is a photo I took of a cat skull - you can see the fragile little turbinates filling up the nasal cavity like the folds in a Cadbury's Twirl or Flake.











These turbinates are important when it comes to understanding chronic post-viral rhinosinusitis (you know what? I'm going to refer to this as 'chronic rhinitis' from now on, forgive me).

FHV1, as a virus, loves body linings. The delicate lining of the nasal cavity is one of its favourite places and during an acute FHV1 flare-up, the lining becomes swollen, congested and ulcerated due to viral damage (this is what causes you to have a blocked nose when you have a cold). If bacteria get in on the act, they make everything worse. Once the immune system gets its act together, kills off all the bacteria and clears away all the virus-infected cells, everything settles down and goes back to normal. The lining heals. Everything is hunky dory - just like if you or I get a cold and recover.


*There are three common scenarios that take a garden-variety FHV1 infection and turn it into horrible, 'permanent' chronic rhinitis:*

1. A really, really severe FHV1 infection, usually in kittenhood...

AND/OR

2. Repeated heavy flare-ups of FHV1 during stress...

AND/OR

3. A compromised immune system, for example in young kittens or cats with FIV (feline immunodeficiency virus) or FeLV (feline leukaemia virus)...

In these cases, the damage caused by FHV1 is more severe than in a 'normal' case. Whether it's one severe infection in a kitten with a delicate young nose, or repeated flare-ups in an adult cat who is prone to getting symptoms of cat 'flu, the virus goes beyond damaging the nasal lining and actually destroys the turbinate bones. Bacteria can lodge deep in the bones and help erode them away. With time, the specialised lining responsible for smelling and humidifying air is complete destroyed and the body replaces it with generic tissue that patches up the damage but isn't really designed to line a nose.

Here's a picture borrowed from the internet that demonstrates the damage to the delicate turbinate bones such as that caused by FHV1.

This is a CT scan of a dog's skull (sorry, couldn't fine a decent cat one). On the left is the nasal cavity of a normal dog, with the scrolls of bone clearly visible. On the right is the nose of a dog who has had their turbinates destroyed by a fungal infection. In cats with chronic rhinitis, this is the kind of damage we see - usually not as severe, but it should help you get an idea of what's happening in the nose.











*What are the consequences of the nasal damage for the cat?*

Think about when you or I have a cold. Our nose is stuffy from the inflammation. It's full of snot, produced by the body as a defence mechanism to trap infectious organisms and dead cells. We can't smell or taste. Occasionally, we can get a nosebleed or sinusitis.

All of these things are exactly the same for cats with chronic rhinitis, except they're like that all the time.

1. These guys have lost the normal moist squashy lining of their nose, so they can't humidify the air they breathe. They end up breathing dry air, which dries out the nose even more and makes their snot more sticky and difficult to shift. It can become really congealed in there, until they can't even sneeze it out.

3. To make things worse, these cats produce more mucus than a normal cat because the mucus glands become more active in response to the inflammation.

3. They no longer have a good sense of smell. This is important if they stop eating for any reason, because the sense of smell is the biggest drive of appetite in cats. If they can't smell, it's hard to get them to eat if they're poorly.

4. The duct that drains tears from the eyes out of the nose is also affected in these cats. It can be squashed by all the swelling, or it may even get all scarred over. This makes these cats more prone to runny eyes, even if they haven't actually got conjunctivitis (although many do have conjunctivitis as well).

5. Because they've lost the lining that traps bugs and supports the immune cells in the nose, these cats are at increased risk of bacterial infection. They can get secondary infections by commensals more often and more severely than normal cats, and this just feeds into the damage. It's a vicious circle.

*NOTE: there are other things that can cause damage to the turbinates. FHV1 is not the only culprit!*

Chronic damage caused by severe or repeated FHV1 infection is one of the most common cause of turbinate damage in cats. However, there are other causes including:
- nasal tumours
- fungal infections
- foreign bodies that have been stuck up there for a while (grass blades!)
- nasopharyngeal stenosis (a narrowing of the canal between the nose and throat, usually due to scarring from long-term inflammation)
- polyps
- other weird and wonderful, but uncommon, bugs

Okay, I'm going to stop this post and continue in another as this is getting too long. Next one will be more to the point, I promise - I just wanted you to understand what could be going on in the nose.


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## Ceiling Kitty

Okay, so now we're onto testing. Already discussed testing for infectious causes above. Next up is things like the X-rays and rhinoscopy.

In cats who haven't cleared up with antibiotics, or if something else is suspected such as nasal tumour or a foreign body, or just to confirm suspicions of chronic post-viral rhinitis, further investigations under general anaesthesia are warranted.

As I said in my previous post, this is how I approach these kitties and doesn't reflect what others may do.

*1. A full examination of the head and mouth is important while the cat is under anaesthetic*
Dental disease can cause chronic nasal problems, especially if the upper canines are diseased and leaking crud into the nasal cavity. Only 1-2mm or so of bone separates the roots of the canine teeth from the nasal cavity - it doesn't take much for a dental abscess to break through and cause a horrible mess. The ears and throat should also be examined for lumps such as polyps. It's often worth getting a little mirror in there to see up the back of the nose. I also like to assess the tear ducts to see if they're blocked, since one may as well take the opportunity while the cat is asleep.
*
2. X-rays of the nasal cavity*
A paper published in 2003 found that 70% of cats with chronic rhinitis had something show up on X-rays. 100% of cats with tumours in their nose had something show up.
In short, X-rays have their limitations, but they can still be useful. Mainly you're looking for:
- destruction of the turbinate bones
- growths that could be tumours
- a nose full of fluid (which could represent snot)
- polyps in the throat or middle ear
- issues with the tooth roots

Here is an X-ray I took of a little cat with chronic rhinitis. You can make out her sweet little nose at the top. You are looking down through her face at the table she is lying on, and so you can compare each side of her nasal cavity. The right side looks pretty normal - you can see the delicate little patterns of the turbinates. On the left side, however, it looks much greyer and sort of 'fluffy'. You can make out the bone pattern in some areas but not others. This is evidence that the bones have been damaged and the space filled with general snot and crud, which looks grey/white on the X-ray.










*
3. A CT scan of the head is usually preferable to X-rays in these cases as it can reveal more and in magical 3D, but CT scans are more expensive and not as widely available as X-rays.*

*4. If your practice has access to rhinoscopy (a camera to go up the nose), it can come in very handy here.*
Tiny cameras to enter the nostrils are not available in every practice, and may require referral if you wish to pursue it, but they can come in handy for all sorts of reasons:
- they allow you to actually see what's going on up there*
- they can squirt water, which can actually clean out some of the congealed snot and make the cat feel better for a while.
- they allow more accurate samples as you can pinpoint exactly where you want to take a biopsy.
- if there's something stuck up there, they can grab it and pull it out.

*in practice, it's often found that all you can actually see is snot (because there is so much of it), so sometimes rhinoscopy is unrewarding. However, if it can all be flushed out then you may see ulcerations, turbinate damage, foreign bodies, fungi or growths.

A camera can also be used to examine the back of the nose through the throat. Nasopharyngeal stenosis (where the canal between the back of the nose and the throat is narrowed by scarring) is a common result of chronic rhinitis, and it makes everything worse by making a stuffy nose even more blocked up.

*5. Nasal flushing and biopsy*
Flushing the nose out with lots of clean saline can remove lumps of dry crud, weird foreign bodies like grass blades or chunks of tumour for analysis. It's an option to analyse the flushed fluid for bacterial growth or tumour cells, but one should be prepared for false negatives. An actual biopsy is much better as you can get a substantial amount of nasal tissue out for more accurate analysis. This procedure usually causes a nosebleed, but this is normal and expected and measures are taken to stop the bleeding if it occurs.
*

In some cases, these tests will yield a precise diagnosis.*
They might turn up a foreign body, or a nasal tumour. In these cases, the next step is quite straightforward as it involves planning specific treatment, and at least you know what you are dealing with.

*In some cases, they won't yield a precise diagnosis.*
And that's okay... if you've ruled out some things then you're still a step further ahead, and it can narrow down the list of possibilities. We know that around a third of cats with chronic post-viral rhinosinusitis have normal X-rays, and you might not find anything on a biopsy except yucky inflamed nasal tissue. But if you don't find anything else untoward in a cat whose symptoms fit chronic rhinitis, then you can be more confident in your diagnosis and in commencing treatment.

*So, in cats who are confirmed or suspected to have chronic post-viral rhinosinusitis, the temptation is to 'fix' them. Sorry to be Captain Bringdown, but you can't cure these cats. * Once those turbinate bones are gone, they're not coming back - and these cats will always have some degree of snuffly nose, and they will always be prone to getting secondary bacterial infections from their nasal commensals.

*We aim to manage these cats, to keep their symptoms as calm as possible and minimise the number of horrible flare-ups they experience.

*
Treating the FHV1

The mainstay of specific therapy for FHV1 is the human antiviral agent famciclovir (trade name Famvir). While these pills can be purchased quite cheaply in other parts of the world, in the UK they are eye-wateringly expensive (around £5-10 per tablet - and most cats need a tablet a day, though the dose is highly adjustable! ).

Because of the cost, Famvir is often rejected right away - but even when it can be used there are no guarantees about how effective it will be. It's my personal experience that the jury is very much OUT on the value of giving Famvir to cats with chronic FHV1 damage, and different research has come up with different results. Remember that the virus may be hiding away in the trigeminal ganglion even though the cat is snotty, and in these cases the Famvir is unlikely to do anything. I think if you're definitely treating symptoms caused by a current FHV1 infection (such as flare-up following a stressful event), it could be useful. But if you're only treating the damage left behind by the virus, can it work? The answer is I don't know, and in countries where Famvir is cheap I know many vets consider it 'worth a try'. In the UK however, where prices are what they are, it's harder to justify that.

I know many swear by L-lysine, but it's my understanding from the literature that it works great in petri dish but not in a cat, so personally I never use it. No harm in trying it though.

Treating secondary bacterial infections
These happen in cats with virus-damaged noses, with varying frequency and severity. When they occur, antibiotics are warranted (as mentioned previously, doxycyline is my favourite). Owners of these cats can expect to have to administer courses of antibiotics at intervals when secondary infections strike.

Supportive care to help keep the nose as clear as possible
Anti-inflammatories, careful use of decongestants and saline drops/sprays can all help keep these guys' noses clear. A lot of people swear by products like Snufflebabe drops to clear the nose, and I know one owner who uses a nebuliser for their cat with severe congestion. In the past I have placed snotty cats in a small room with a bowl of hot water and a few drops of Olbas Oil (obviously well out of reach of the cat), which seems to help, but you need to be really careful with essential oils as many are toxic to cats - never apply Vicks or Olbas Oil etc on a cat, on their bedding or too close to them. Some cats benefit from regular nasal flushes under anaesthesia, but obviously this is quite invasive and the benefits must be weighed carefully against the risks and stress of repeated procedures under GA.

Obviously care of the nose and eyes is important as they get very crusty.

Steroids are sometimes used for these snotty cats, because they are pretty good at taking down inflammation, but their suppression of the immune system can risk waking up FHV1 again and causing a flare-up, so they're not ideal in most cases.


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## Ceiling Kitty

karen_ok said:


> We have a *4-6 year old *(not sure of exact age as we took her in as a stray) *female* cat who has had signs of an *upper respiratory infection or cat flu* ever since we got her around a year ago.
> 
> She has been tested by the vets for *feline herpes, FIV and FCV *- all came back* negative*. She is *going again tomorrow to get an x-ray *carried out to check for any damage to her nose/airways, but I doubt this will show anything up.
> 
> Her *symptoms,* worryingly, are NOT temporary or intermittent - they're* permanent.* It's also getting worse and appears to have moved into her chest over the past couple of weeks as she's been *coughing more and more*. From what I have read about these viruses - if it is just a standard cat flu, as the vets assume - they should come and go, and there should at least be periods of relief, but this does not happen and I worry that she will continue to deteriorate further.
> 
> *My problem is this:* I think the vets are calling it 'flu' basically because they have no other answer as to what it is. They *won't give her more antibiotics* because they barely helped her before (though she's only had them on 1 previous occassion). This is starting to really anger me now as there must be SOMETHING wrong with her other than just a common flu.* Should I put my foot down and demand further testing or a stronger dose of antibiotics?* Are there different types of antibiotics that could be taken? I also don't want to keep hauling her back & forth to the vets as she's quite a timid, anxious cat and it obviously frightens her a lot.
> 
> We have *tried l-lysine *supplements, which haven't helped much either. Is there anything else I can do?


If this kitty has always been snotty, and comes from a questionable background, statistically she's quite likely to have permanent viral damage to her nose from FHV1. In that sense, the vets' presumptive diagnosis of 'cat 'flu' makes sense. While you're quite correct that 'normal' cat 'flu is intermittent and flare-ups are interspersed with normal periods, cats with turbinate damage unfortunately can't experience these periods of normality and therefore suffer 'permanent' symptoms of 'flu.

Coughing can be seen with upper respiratory infections, but it can also be a sign of infections in the lower airways or lungs. The most common cause of coughing in cats is FBD (feline bronchial disease - commonly known as asthma), the diagnosis of which can be complicated by infections.

I think the X-rays are a reasonable next step, and while there's no guarantee they'll show something there's a good chance you'll gain some useful information from them. I think it's worth asking the vet if they plan to do any chest X-rays, flushes or nasal biopsies while she's under. Hopefully they will perform a thorough examination of her mouth and throat while she's with them. 

There is always the possibility of something else unexpected going on up the nose, which hopefully the further diagnostics will flag up.

Trying antibiotics again may not be an unreasonable option, but this really does depend on the circumstances, what antibiotic was given last time and how long for.


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## QOTN

Although I am sure the OP will be grateful for all your effort, @Ceiling Kitty, in view of the fact that you are not going to be between jobs with time to spare as a regular occurrence and this topic comes up so frequently, surely this should be a sticky. Frankly, some vets would do well to read this!


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## Satori

@Ceiling Kitty , thanks for those posts. That's the most cogent explanation of this complex topic I have ever read, anywhere. You have a real talent.


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## karen_ok

OH MY WORD, this is AMAZING!!! I could actually cry right now! :Arghh You have completely floored me. :Jawdrop

I've been so desperate for someone to explain to me what might be going on and this has given me so much sought-after information. It's also given me a FAR, FAR better idea of what I need to speak to the vet about, and what I might be able to suggest.

Thank you SO SO much for taking the time to do this and for being so precise and detailed in your response. I honestly cannot thank you enough! Unbelievable. THANK YOU. :Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased


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## Paddypaws

I would like to join in with the standing round of applause.
CK, you really do possess an amazing talent in being able to provide information that a layman can understand, and you are so _generous _in sharing your expertise.


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## karen_ok

Update:

They performed a _chest_ x-ray, not nose as I had thought they were going to (I did ask for both anyway but they said there was little point as it's so hard to see what's going on without - as @Ceiling Kitty said - a CT scan or rhinoscopy). There's nothing wrong with her lungs, so that's good!

They've given her a course of decongestants and a course of Ronaxan, which I was pleased to see given @Ceiling Kitty's praise of it as a sort of bacterial panacea!

We'll see how she goes, but hopefully these will help a lot.  Thanks again for all the help and information.


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## cows573

This articles explained a lot to me... and also showed me how deceptive some organisations can be....

Years ago, I lost one of my two cats (suspected killed by a gamekeeper), I had a lovely cat but wanted two cats, so I decided to adopt a cat no-one else would re-home. Millie was a lovely cat - semi-feral, missing half an ear and she had a cough. I was told at the time that is was a harmless side-effect from cat flu in the past. She quickly became part of our family and we trained her from semi-feral to tame.

Unfortunately, after she had with us for around 3 months, she was ill and required an antibiotic. This worked and she was well again... for 2 months. Back to vet's, another antibiotic, then well again.... for 1.5 months. This progressed until she was practically on antibiotics permanently and then they stopped working. We only had her for around a year before she passed away.

I don't regret adopting her, I believe she had a good life for the short time she was with us, but it would have been nice to have been told the truth about her potential health problems.


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## Weasey123

My cat I think has severe case of FCV although the vets won't confirm it. She had her vaccination last Saturday and ever since she's struggling to walk (limping syndrome) ulcers in the mouth, heavy breathing, high temperature. The vets won't confirm because she not a kitten (she's 2) and hasn't got ulcers on her tongue! It's been a week now and my cat seems to be a little better but still not 100%. Any advice?


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## QOTN

Weasey123 said:


> My cat I think has severe case of FCV although the vets won't confirm it. She had her vaccination last Saturday and ever since she's struggling to walk (limping syndrome) ulcers in the mouth, heavy breathing, high temperature. The vets won't confirm because she not a kitten (she's 2) and hasn't got ulcers on her tongue! It's been a week now and my cat seems to be a little better but still not 100%. Any advice?


If she still has symptoms and you want to know definitely, ask the vet to take swabs.


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## Guest

Printing this and your response to my posts. Do you do home visits? ;] haha. be our vet!


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## Clairabella

Amazing! Just absolutely blown away by the detail in this thread and how well and clearly it explains everything. You are so clever and Knowledgable CK. thank you for this informative thread. It has answered many of the questions I had regarding my Thomas's diagnosis. Thank you xx


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## Caz49

Super article ... informative reading
I have a 14yr old Siamese boy who has suffered for the last 4yrs with persistent bouts of upper respiratory infection.


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## C L F

My persian cat who died in 2015 , suffered with cat flu (feline calicivirus) , and really suffered in the later years of his life suffering with ulcer in his mouth and his eye, was on the really expensive medication for it, he died from kidney disease, I missed the signs of this disease early on as he was on Royal Canin s/o, which masked the symptoms of drinking excessively which is what the royal canin food did as it makes the cat drink more to neutralise the crystals, I felt a bad cat owner for failing him in this way and just want people out there that may have a cat with the same disease to be aware of the symptoms of kidney failure, it was too late to reverse or stop the disease with Oscar. He died aged 16.


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## Caz49

C L F said:


> My persian cat who died in 2015 , suffered with cat flu (feline calicivirus) , and really suffered in the later years of his life suffering with ulcer in his mouth and his eye, was on the really expensive medication for it, he died from kidney disease, I missed the signs of this disease early on as he was on Royal Canin s/o, which masked the symptoms of drinking excessively which is what the royal canin food did as it makes the cat drink more to neutralise the crystals, I felt a bad cat owner for failing him in this way and just want people out there that may have a cat with the same disease to be aware of the symptoms of kidney failure, it was too late to reverse or stop the disease with Oscar. He died aged 16.


So sorry for your loss ... I feel sure that he had a most wonderful home and was very much loved and you couldn't have done any more for him .... there comes a time to every devoted owner that means you have no choice but to let them go ... x


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## TriTri

C L F said:


> My persian cat who died in 2015 , suffered with cat flu (feline calicivirus) , and really suffered in the later years of his life suffering with ulcer in his mouth and his eye, was on the really expensive medication for it, he died from kidney disease, I missed the signs of this disease early on as he was on Royal Canin s/o, which masked the symptoms of drinking excessively which is what the royal canin food did as it makes the cat drink more to neutralise the crystals, I felt a bad cat owner for failing him in this way and just want people out there that may have a cat with the same disease to be aware of the symptoms of kidney failure, it was too late to reverse or stop the disease with Oscar. He died aged 16.


Hi C L F, I'm very sorry for the loss of your dear Oscar. It's good of you to share your advice. I am positive you did your best for Oscar and couldn't possibly be expected to know everything that only a vet would know. 16 is a good age. Please don't be hard on yourself. The amount of love you gave him far outweighed any lack of medical knowledge.


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## C L F

TriTri said:


> Hi C L F, I'm very sorry for the loss of your dear Oscar. It's good of you to share your advice. I am positive you did your best for Oscar and couldn't possibly be expected to know everything that only a vet would know. 16 is a good age. Please don't be hard on yourself. The amount of love you gave him far outweighed any lack of medical knowledge.


Thank you for those kind words, he's never far from my thoughts. He was a very special cat to me.


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## HadEnoughOfCats

Thanks. I'm moving a cat that's had cat flu in the past from my mums house to my house and this is a massive help. I think I'm gonna contact the vet and see what we can do with the blockage in her nose. Been told all she needs is a good sneeze but she can't. Her nose is always blocked.


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## C L F

Hi, Oscar didn’t have a nose blockage as part of his cat flu, I wonder if it could be drafts causing it, I say this because we’re i work a lady took a cat in with the same thing it was part feral, !! Any way she has a purtch high up and is in a conservatory most of the day and doesn’t have the mucus as much now !!! As the cat was outside all the time it was obviously in a cold environment, it lived in a stable with horses.


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## HadEnoughOfCats

It could be that, I remember time before last I took her to the vets and the vet prescribed this white powered to dissolve the mucus in her nose. I'll see how she goes at the new house. Just hope her and my original stray get on, they don't like each other.


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## C L F

HadEnoughOfCats said:


> It could be that, I remember time before last I took her to the vets and the vet prescribed this white powered to dissolve the mucus in her nose. I'll see how she goes at the new house. Just hope her and my original stray get on, they don't like each other.


It took a lot of time and patience before my two cats tolerate each other, luckily it didn't come to fighting one another, just growling and hissing. It's been a year now and the just tolerate each other, they do share the same room but generally one is upstairs and the other downstairs. hope all goes well


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## TriTri

HadEnoughOfCats said:


> It could be that, I remember time before last I took her to the vets and the vet prescribed this white powered to dissolve the mucus in her nose. I'll see how she goes at the new house. Just hope her and my original stray get on, they don't like each other.


Good luck, I hope all goes well. Let us know how things go.


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## HadEnoughOfCats

Cat's been with me for 13 year but doesn't like other cats, I took another cat in three year ago called Sooty and both lived at my house and even when that one who was something like 17 was being treated for hyper thyroid's due to old age Cat still had to dominate her. They didn't fight because Sooty always backed down.

Mina, the one with the faulty nose gets along great with other cats but she has to be the boss. They do have the run of the house though this time and there's only going to be the two of them so hopefully they'll both agree they don't like each other but will just get along. No cat I've ever taken in has got along with Cat, especially her two kittens. She's was six week pregnant when I took her on, I don't bread cats. When Sooty died last year Cat was like she was when I first got her. She's turned into a lap cat again, I can't get her off my knee. She's all over me, she loved being the only cat. It's a bit annoying. I'm a dog lover but have cats because I live in a bad area with lot and lots of stray and ferrel cats. 

I'm hoping Mina will let Cat be the boss but I can't see it. Last time Cat was in a house with Mina she ran up the walls. She's scared of other cats. They're driving my crazy but can't re home Mina cause of her nose. No one wants her. She's a nice cat, if I can sort this nose problem out I'd like to re home her. She lives with my mum but when my mum visits people I have to go around to her house and look after her. It's easier if she lives with me. 

I'll start a new thread if a war between them starts off in my house so I'm not filling this thread up about the cats fighting. They never bite each other or anything or cause abscess's or anything like they just don't seem to ever let each other be. They're not vicious with each other.


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## chillminx

@HadEnoughOfCats - when there is that kind of a stalemate between two cats over a long period, it is best to give them their own spaces in your home, so they can live separately without having any contact with each other. I have had to do this myself to bring harmony to the home and give all my cats a good quality of life.

I understand your two cats are not vicious with each other, they don't fight, but if they cannot leave each other alone then there will be constant tension between them causing chronic anxieties for them, and that is not good for their long term health.


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## HadEnoughOfCats

Yeah tell me about it. When cat lived with the other cats the vet wanted to put her on the cat version of prozac. I refused it cause I was told by the vet that it could mess her kidneys up so just left her but she moved into my house on her won accord. I can't stress how much this cat hate other cats. I know what's gonna happen, she'll attack me because another cat is in the house but I'll give it a go and see how they get on. Hopefully they'll put up with each other's bullshit. 

I swear to god I'll never own another cat after they have died. It's crazy. I do have a living room sorted out and two bedrooms though so hopefully they'll get on. Every single cat I've taken on or has moved into my house hasn't got on with Cat, they hate her cause she's bossy. When her kitten was alive he'd attack any cat that came near my house. She didn't like him but he managed to keep all the strays away. He's dead now unfortunately. I loved that cat. I love her too but she's so bossy it's unbelievable, she's got me wrapped around her little finger and she doesn't even have one. I just want her to grow old and die. That sounds awful doesn't it. She's like a kitten even though she's old. She has so much life in her. I feel like god is punishing me with this cat. I think she's gonna outlive me and I'm only 37. Sorry I'm laughing.


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## C L F

Female cats are generally very bossy, my rescue Tilly is. It’s the first time I’ve had a female cat as they have all been males. Tilly came with a lot of insecurities, she had lived with an elderly man until he died, she’s still youn though so there’s hope, she’s come on really well, she just ignores my other cat, Alfie. But I think there are a lot of plus points with a female. I think just give her plenty of space high up so she feels at ease and less tension. Hope all goes well. Ps I do think cats make lovely companions but are very demanding.


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## lymorelynn

Sorry but as this is a sticky thread can we keep it on topic please.


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## Whompingwillow

Amazing amount of helpful information, you are something else!


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## Kira93

Thank you for providing all of this information. It was really helpful when my girl had an infection that she just couldn't seem to shift. She had tests done and it was found that she had chlamydia; treatment showed initial improvement but then it just came back and wouldn't go away. The vet initially stated it would just be about managing her symptoms - giving her meds to thin the mucous, some Olbas oil and steam to help her breathe better, that kind of thing.

But it turned out that she had polyps and that was why the infection couldn't be shifted. Surgery to remove the polyps instantly removed her sniffle and snot, and she was breathing absolutely fine after months and months of a blocked, runny nose. Instantly better.

I signed up just to post this, in case anyone else's cat may be going through the same thing without realising. It took the better part of a year for her to be diagnosed with polyps, and that was because the vet had noticed her breathing had distinctively changed (due to the polyps growing) since the last time we saw him - something I hadn't noticed as of course I was around her all the time so tiny changes to her breathing would be imperceptible to me. 

The vet said polyps may come back, but at least there was an explanation and a way to solve her chronic runny nose.


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## chillminx

Welcome to the forum @Kira93 

I am very pleased to hear your girl's upper respiratory infection was resolved by the diagnosis and removal of the polyps.


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## Megan Carpenter

This was so incredibly helpful thank you!
A pregnant abandoned cat turned up on the doorstep a few weeks ago and had 5 healthy kittens who are now 16 days old!
Mother cat (Luna) is around 7/8months old and has cat flu. Vet prescribed Synulox which she took for 7 days. She was free of symptoms for a week but has now started sneezing loads and has a blocked snotty nose. Is it worth trying different antibiotics? 
Many thanks


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## chillminx

Megan Carpenter said:


> This was so incredibly helpful thank you!
> A pregnant abandoned cat turned up on the doorstep a few weeks ago and had 5 healthy kittens who are now 16 days old!
> Mother cat (Luna) is around 7/8months old and has cat flu. Vet prescribed Synulox which she took for 7 days. She was free of symptoms for a week but has now started sneezing loads and has a blocked snotty nose. Is it worth trying different antibiotics?
> Many thanks


Synlox is a broad spectrum antibiotic which may not be the best type for getting rid of an upper respiratory infection. I would ask the vet for a course of Ronaxan for her (or the liquid version which is called Doxycycline).

Ronaxan is an antibiotic specifically aimed at respiratory infections and is the one that's helped one of my cats who has flare-ups of Feline Herpesvirus once a year or so, with a secondary bacterial infection every time.


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## Megan Carpenter

Thank you @chillminx I'll contact the vets and see if I can get it prescribed for her. Horrible seeing her sneeze so violently and so blocked  are decongestants any good or worth it?


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## chillminx

Megan Carpenter said:


> Thank you @chillminx I'll contact the vets and see if I can get it prescribed for her. Horrible seeing her sneeze so violently and so blocked  are decongestants any good or worth it?


There are no decongestant medicines for cats you can buy without a prescription from the vet. Don't use any decongestant intended for humans, many of them will be toxic for cats.

For treating a blocked nose :

Steam can relieve nasal congestion in cats just as it can in humans. Take your cat in bathroom while you're having a shower or running a bath. The hot steam will help reduce the swelling and moisten the mucous in her nose, thus easing the congestion.

Also you can safely use a product called Snufflebabe (made for human babies). Using a cotton wool bud gently dab some of the solution on the end of each nostril, or just below them.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Snufflebab...prefix=nasal+drops+for+babies+,aps,146&sr=8-7


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## Megan Carpenter

That’s great thank you! I’ll get some snufflebabe and contact my vets for those antibiotics. Anything to help her feel better! It’s lucky she’s still eating like a champ, keeping her kittens well fed. Tough job as a very young mum with 5!


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## Megan Carpenter

Is it safe to use a diffuser with a few drops of olbas oil? Certainly helps unblock my nose! I’ve read it’s not toxic to cats unlike other essential oils. Just want to help ease my queens blocked nose and sneezing!


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## OrientalSlave

Megan Carpenter said:


> Is it safe to use a diffuser with a few drops of olbas oil? Certainly helps unblock my nose! I've read it's not toxic to cats unlike other essential oils. Just want to help ease my queens blocked nose and sneezing!


I would not use any sort of diffuser with cats. Olbas oil ingredients:

Cajuput Oil 18.5%, *Clove Oil 0.1%, Eucalyptus Oil 35.45%*, Juniperberry Oil 2.7%, Levomenthol 4.1%, Methyl Salicylate 3.7%, Mint *Oil*, Partly Dementholised 35.45%.

Cajuput is related to tee tree oil.

And from Messybeast:

*
Other Essential Oils

*
<snip>

Essential oils which contain phenols are particularly toxic to cats and cause liver damage. These include Oregano, Thyme, *Eucalyptus*, *Clove*, Cinnamon, Bay Leaf, Parsley and Savory

Essential oils which contain ketones cause neurological symptoms. These include: Cedar Leaf*, Sage*, Hyssop*, Cyprus*, Lavender, *Eucalyptus*, *Mint* ,Caraway*, Citronella ,*Clove**, Ginger*, Chamomile, Thyme and Rosemary (those marked * give particular cause for concern).

<snip>


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## Ragamese

Hi
Firstly I want to thank you all for all of the helpful content here, my vet told me very little detail after this condition but after reading these posts I am much better informed.

I’ve got a 12 year old Asian Burmese who has had chronic rhinitis for quite a while now and we have been through numerous antibiotics to try to help.
Problem is the antibiotic that I think would have got rid of it, Ronaxan after 3 doses my boy was pretty poorly. (Being very sick, couldn’t eat and looked very unwell).
Any advice please would be very gratefully received Of any other antibiotics that might help without making him so poorly? Many thanks in advance.


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## Guest

Thank you very much for the information it explains a lot I had a Norwegian forest cat who came from a terrible background she told me online that the cat was one years old would be spayed and fully vaccinated and that she ran a resuce centre from her home when I got there she told me the cat hadn’t been spayed and vaccinated and that the black stuff around her eyes was dirt the place was so filthy I believed it I felt sorry for the cat as she hid and was shaking so I decided to pay her £50 to get her out of there when I took her to the vet they told me she was between 4 and six years of age had chronic cat flu a hernia was under weight and needed weigh ins and would need all of her teeth out she after a 7 day course of antibiotics she was better but still shed and her poor eyes and nose needed cleaning twice a day I have no idea why she was underweight as she had a big appetite and quickly put on weight eating the kitten food the vet told me to feed her the so called rescuer sent me a contract she excepted me to sign saying I will bring the cat back to her if I couldn’t afford her and lots of clause’s there was no way I would ever sign anything that said I would bring the cat back to her so I didn’t sign it ahe even had the cheek to add to it that I would have her spayed when she had told me online that it had already been done I reported her to the rspca who asked for my vets details to confirm my story they contacted the vets and paid her a visit because of the information that the vets gave them when she was online she backtracked her story even though she’d put it online for all to see and said that the cat was 4. she then ganged up on me with other people online and harassed me for the contract which she told everyone was her spaying contract it was a great shame that no one asked for my side as I would have gladly explained she made up a load of twadle as to why I’d sent the rspca but the truth was it was because of the cat’s condition and they don’t stay involved with a case for five months for nothing…. I was pleased to hear that she no longer breeds or rescues even though I was skint from all the vets bills I’m glad I rescued her and don’t regret a thing


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## Guest

And I forgot to add a hernia on top of that.


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## Tammy Wise

Stumbled across this discussion and found it very helpful. My girl, Molly, has been treated for her chronic eye condition since she was about 3 months old. I'm wondering about other's experiences or concerns about long-term treatment with Famciclovir. She's been off it for a month now, but I know eventually she will have a flare-up and need to go back on it. Any one else have any experience using this for an extended period of time? Any concerns or side effects to watch out for?


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## Markos Mum

I've really enjoyed reading this post, it's been so informative. *Thank you! *

I'm a first time cat owner, I look in a 5/6 year old male cat last week.
He has a snotty nose along with a cough that sounds very wet, like his chest is full of mucus.
I was told he's always had this issue since a kitten but to be sure I took him to the vets the day after we got him just to be checked over.

The vet was really pleased with him and said he most probably had cat flu as a kitten and this is the result, she also checked his chest - lungs etc. But said it all sounds clear and the coughing could be a result of his nose congestion running back onto his throat 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

After reading this thread, I was thinking... Could his cough be due to a secondary infection that antibiotics could clear?

I'll be grabbing some Snufflebabe later today for his nose 👃

He's a happy, chilled boy who loves his food 😍

Grateful for any advice.


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