# Dog overprotective of new baby... help please



## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

I have a 2 year old gsd/staff that I have had since she was 8 weeks old. She has been spayed. 

I have a 4 month old baby, and a 6 year old daughter. Recently, my dog has been growling at and watching over my partner when he has our baby, then started doing it to my older daughter. She has nipped my daughter when she told her off for licking the baby - she isn't allowed to do this or to go to close when baby is on the floor/play mat. Despite our attempts to curb this behaviour, it has escalated to her now growling at me aswell. 

We do not want to rehome her, however if it continues we will be forced to, to protect our girls. Please help as we are at a loss what to try now.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

This isn't something you should take advice about from a forum. Get a qualified behaviourist in


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

hawksport said:


> This isn't something you should take advice about from a forum. Get a qualified behaviourist in


100000000000% What Hawksport said. Plus to be safe I would keep the dog away from the baby and your other daughter until you have done so. This is something that needs addressing quickly (I would be on the phone first thing tomorrow, Sunday or not!) before it goes beyond the point of no return.


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree, seek a qualified behaviourist for this and perhaps keep them separated. Unfortunately, he may have nipped your eldest daughter for shouting at him, it's advised you don't shout at the dog for approaching the new baby in the wrong way. "Do not place the baby on the floor with your dog and never hit or shout at him for approaching the baby in the wrong way." (source: Dogs Trust)...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

just a note re *"protective" behavior - * it's only protective if there's an actual threat; 
if there's no threat, it's most-likely to be *defensive behavior:* IOW the dog is scared 
by something - a person, a context, a behavior, sound, smell, action... eliminating the fear 
eliminates the growls, snaps, and other defensive behaviors.


mermaid said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> I have a 2-YO GSD x Staff... [who arrived at] 8-WO; [she is] spayed. I have a 4-MO baby, and a 6-YO daughter.
> 
> ...


mermaid, do U have any baby-gates? 
rather than *argue* over what the dog may do, or where the dog may go, GATE the dog - 
limiting her access is simple, effective, and does not require *confrontation* in any form.

secondarily, *i would Not allow my 6-YO to TELL OFF any dog - ever!* that's my job, 
as the supervising adult - and allowing the child to do it, is asking for a world of trouble. 
children should be politely directing a dog [come, sit, down, stay, etc] - NOT scold, punish, push, 
threaten, or be physically or emotionally intimidating.

tethering the dog nearby so she can *watch from a distance* is simple, safe, and can be happy - 
thumping her for simple curiosity and being lured by the odor of a full-diaper will end in disaster, 
for the dog and the humans. 
6-ft away is plenty - we are not banishing her, only adding a comfortable distance between.


mermaid said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> We do not want to rehome [our dog], however *if [the growling] continues we will be forced to*, to protect our girls.
> Please help as we are at a loss what to try now.


growling is not dangerous - *not listening to what the dog is saying* which is that she is extremely 
uncomfortable, is very dangerous; growls are NOT something to punish - they are communication, 
very valuable indeed, and to be heeded - not ignored, not scolded, not smacked to extinguish them.

get a *reputable, credentialed trainer, or a CERTIFIED behaviorist [meaning a B-Sc in behavior, 
with a specialty Board-certification in applied-behavior] or a Veterinary-Behaviorist - a DVM 
with a Board-certificate in behavior, above and beyond their Doctorate in Vet-Med.* 
i am here specifically excluding any + all "listeners", franchise-owners, "whisperers", 
garden-variety manners trainers, and any others who are not specifically credentialed in B-Mod.

at the absolute minimum, U need an APDT-uk trainer who is experienced with aggro and B-Mod; 
the next-step up is APBC, COAPE, or CAAB; the highest level of expertise is the Vet-Behaviorist.

meanwhile, i would *crate, tether, baby-gate, or otherwise limit the dog's access or confine her 
when the baby is out in the living-area - * while looking for that credentialed professional. 
*pairing the infant arriving in the living-area with a stuffed, frozen Kong 
with half of the dog's prior meal pre-measured and packed into it, is one way to associate 
the baby with GOOD things - not scolding, punishment, stress and anger directed at the dog.*

Happy Dog, Happy Kids is an excellent book for safe + enjoyable cohabitation. 
*Dogs And Storks* is another helpful resource - see their website for many tips, 
including an audio-recording of FAQs for parents.


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## arklady (Sep 14, 2010)

Like everyone else, I agree that you need to get PROFESSIONAL help for integration with a new baby from a good behaviorist. I am not sure where you are located but there are a lot of good, qualified professionals around the world. 

Don't delay and don't fool around--get help right away.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What everyone else who said "Don't take advice over the net - get a behaviourist in" said.

In the meantime, manage the situation in the ways Terry suggested.

What on earth is a 6 year old doing telling the dog off??


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> shibby:
> [the dog] may have nipped your eldest daughter for shouting at [her], it's advised
> you don't shout at the dog for approaching the new baby in the wrong way.
> 
> ...


good quote from a trustworthy source - :thumbup: hurrah, shibby! :thumbup1:


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> good quote from a trustworthy source - :thumbup: hurrah, shibby! :thumbup1:


Cheers leashedForLife! It's an excellent website, full of factsheets and advice, obviously this particular situation requires a behaviourist, but it's great for people learning the basics


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

6yo doesn't "tell off" dog, but says "no" if she is behaving incorrectly towards her, which we have always told her to do so that the dog realises she is above her. Thought this was the right thing to do? ie if she is nipping when being petted for no apparent reason, she has a tendancy towards mouthing if she is allowed to.

We have baby gates, which we had been using before baby to keep her in the kitchen, but as she can jump a 6ft fence, they are no help in keeping her out of the room. She has a crate but constantly whines when she is put in it if we are at home unless it's bed time. 

I have attempted to contact our vets to get a recommendation of a behaviourist, but they were closed as it was Sunday. I will be following it up tomorrow, and calling the training school dog went to as a puppy. 

Thank you for the advice. 

Re "protective behaviour"... there is no threat when our dog is growling etc, but she seems to think she needs to look out for the baby... the growling etc has occured even when I am sitting bf the little one or she is picked up by her dad.


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> growling is not dangerous - *not listening to what the dog is saying* which is that she is extremely
> uncomfortable, is very dangerous; growls are NOT something to punish - they are communication,
> very valuable indeed, and to be heeded - not ignored, not scolded, not smacked to extinguish them.


She isn't hit for growling, and I was referring to the nipping as a reason to rehome, as the fact that it has escalated to this so quickly is worrying with 2 young children in the house. She has never been a growly dog, if anything she gets in her crate if anything scares her. Yet now she will be very watchful and has on one occasion been laying in the living room growling for a good 10 minutes before we could get her back to her bed - I was alone with the children and unable to physically lead her out of the room.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Has anything changed in your household to make her feel uncomfortable? 

She plainly just could be scared and have no idea how to tell you, but I agree with others and for the meantime I'd crate, baby gate or simply tell her 'out' of the living room while the children are up until you can get a definitive answer.


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

The growling for 10 mins happened when the baby gate slipped and made a noise, but this has happened before and she went and got in her crate. It seems that now that the baby is here, she feels a need to guard her. It did start to some extent during pregancy, when she was more affectionate and gentle around me. She was reassured then and is now. The problem seems to be worst when both children are up. Hopefully the vets can be of some help. 

I have checked dogs trust but there isn't much re babies and children on the site.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

* if A, a baby-gate will not keep her out of the room 
and B, she whines in her crate, *use tethers - * 
- they are cheap 
- they can be used in many rooms: install an eyebolt in the baseboard, move the double-ended 2-ft 
tether from room to room as needed 
- the small hole made in the baseboard is easily filled, and when U move the landlord will paint over it

*if U really do not want to screw eyebolts into the baseboard for inexplicable reasons, 
the tethers can be made in a portable version* - U need: 
* 2-ft length of 2 by 4 lumber 
* one eyebolt per portable tether, centered midway on a 4-inch side 
* one 2-ft bike-cable, nylon-dipped, with swivel spring-clips clamped on both ends 
* a DOOR - any doorway with a door - to serve as the anchor-point: 
- clip the tether to the eyebolt
- lay the 2-by-4 behind the door 
- slide the cable ==> under the door 
- close the door 
- clip the dog's collar to the protruding cable 
- the door is now her station - she can go anywhere in the house where there is a door: closet, bedroom, kitchen, mud-room, etc.

see Tethered to Success 
for ways to use tethers in training; give the dog busywork while she is tethered, such as solid-walled bones with canned-food stuffed in them + frozen, stuffed-Kongs, etc. [Kongs + bones are both top-rack dishwasher safe for sanitizing.]

cheers, 
- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

on-line resources - 
Dogs&Storks.com

Living with Kids and Dogs - Parenting Secrets for a Safe and Happy Home

5 articles on KIDS + DOGS from the ASPCA virtual-behaviorist - 
ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist

teaching children + adults HOW TO TOUCH a dog appropriately - 
Barbara Shumannfang's award-winning essay on puppy training

if U only get one - 
THE BEST book, from pre-preg to 15 or 16-YO kid - 
Amazon.com: Living with Kids and Dogs...Without Losing Your Mind (9781933562667): Colleen Pelar: Books: Reviews, Prices & more

recommended BOOK - 
Amazon.com: Happy Kids, Happy Dogs (9781411672123): Barbara Shumannfang: Books


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

With all due respect I don't think anyone should be offering advice apart from keep the dog away from the children until a pet behaviourist has seen the dog in question.

I know you mean well folks, but there are children involved here and without knowing the full situation, or seeing the dog in action you can't possibly know enough to give accurate advice.

I'd hate for OP to go to any of those links and think she can sort the problem herself.

OP I would class this as an emergency situation and I'm not sure why you only phoned your vet? You clearly have internet access so why didn't you search for a behaviourist in your area?  Unless of course you think this is a medical thing?


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> With all due respect I don't think anyone should be offering advice apart from keep the dog away from the children until a pet behaviourist has seen the dog in question.
> 
> I know you mean well folks, but there are children involved here and without knowing the full situation, or seeing the dog in action you can't possibly know enough to give accurate advice.
> 
> ...


I did search the net for my area and didn't find any locally, the closest was around 50 miles away. As it's only 1 day to wait I would assume the vet will be able to recommend someone closer, who may not advertise online. Yes, I agree that it is an emergency, however we are trying to deal with it early on - I know many dog owners that wouldn't have bothered with these warnings signs we are getting, and would have waited until something major had happened. Bella has been kept away from the children since she nipped my daughter, and we have clamped down even more on the training we were reinforcing during pregnancy. I wouldn't use these links as a diy cure, but they may HELP during the waiting period.

Thanks for all the info leashedforlife


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

mermaid said:


> Bella has been kept away from the children since she nipped my daughter,
> and we have clamped down even more on the training we were reinforcing during pregnancy.


please tell me the 'training' does not involve *rank-reduction* [intimidating, scruffing, pin the dog, 
roll the dog + secure them belly-up + vulnerable, etc] or any *physical punishments* [jerk leash, 
jerk on collar, drag by collar, hit dog with hand or object, etc] or *emotional intimidation* - yelling, 
upright + frontal stance/hands on hips, chase out of bed/off of sofa into a corner or under/behind 
an object, other threatening behavior] ---

any of the above, or all of them together, can easily make a worried dog much much worse. 
*over 85% of aggro has its roots in fear - most biting-dogs are anxious or scared, 
they are NOT out to take-over world domination - They think they are defending themselves.* 
so becoming aggro back is actually only making things worse, not better.

training should include - 
*manage* to make mistakes almost-impossible: practice recalls first indoors, then on a leash, 
then a long-line inside a fence, then a long-line inside a fence with distractions, then a long-line 
outside a fence with distractions, then a drag-line, then a short drag-line, then a hang-tab... 
*teach the dog what we want* in a given situation [sit to be greeted] NOT punish the wrong-answers 
[jump-up in friendly, excited fashion] 
*reward what we want when the dog offers or performs it - * don't ignore freely-offered 
good behavior; notice, MARK and reward it, just as U do cued-compliance.

add *distance* from the handler, *duration* of the behavior, and *distractions* 
in number and level of difficulty, only ONE at a time, and in step-wise fashion: 
the behavior is thus *proofed - * tested carefully so the dog can be successful even under 
considerable distraction and not just 4-ft away while on a leash.

Ur description of her makes me strongly suspect she was undersocialized as a pup, 
was born timid, or has become timid + anxious - GSDs like all herding breeds, frequently 
throw soft or even spooky [globally fearful] dogs, who are quite literally born scared. 
this can be inherited literally from one parent or the dam's or sire's side of the family, 
or it can arise spontaneously in one pup, and worsens as they age and generalize their fears. 
scolding, yelling, confusing or punishing will only make this fear worse, leading to more biting 
as a frightened animal defends herself the only way she can.


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm not sure what drag line or hang tab are? 

No to the aggressive training and physical/emotional punishment. We have been reinforcing her basics - sit, stay, down and leave. As well as trying to encourage her to see her crate and bed as happy places - we are now feeding her in the crate rather than directly in the kitchen, she is rewarded for coming and sitting quietly with us rather than jumping etc. The furthest physical punishment goes is a raised knee when she is jumping towards faces to prevent her getting too close, and has pretty much stopped her doing it at all any more.

During the first year she was socialised a lot, we went to puppy training classes to get her used to other dogs, and regularly had friends and family round. However, the last year or so the human contact she has had has decreased to mainly those of us who live here and some close family, because she is boistorous when people arrive and it has put people off. I asked guests to ignore her until she stopped jumping, which is what we all do, but anyone not used to dogs seemed to be unable to do this  

We have had problems with her jumping our fences - they were originally 6ft which we have extended to 8ft but she can still easily clear if she chooses, so most of her garden time is supervised. This has led to her not WANTING to be outside alone either.

Since we have been more successful in calming her down at home and during walks, a lot more people are visiting and she was getting better with all of that until our baby started to be a little more mobile/active in the last couple of weeks.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

mermaid said:


> I'm not sure what drag line or hang tab are?
> 
> No to the aggressive training and physical/emotional punishment. We have been reinforcing her basics - sit, stay, down and leave. As well as trying to encourage her to see her crate and bed as happy places - we are now feeding her in the crate rather than directly in the kitchen, she is rewarded for coming and sitting quietly with us rather than jumping etc. The furthest physical punishment goes is a raised knee when she is jumping towards faces to prevent her getting too close, and has pretty much stopped her doing it at all any more.
> 
> ...


I am sure LFL wasn't suggesting that you have done any of the things she mentioned, just making sure you are not going to make matters worse. I think you should definitely take her advice about separation and if you can't find a qualified behaviourist in your area, phone one who isn't in your area and he/she may be able to recommend someone.

Please remember, though, that a vet is not a trainer and sometimes they think they are! Best not to take his advice about training, but if he has someone qualified he can refer you to, fine.

It is possible that the dog is still wondering what this little creature is that has come into his life and is moving around on his floor. This could be making her nervous as well and she doesn't know how to react, so is confused.

This is definitely a situation that needs sorting as soon as possible, but it is worth going to a lot of trouble to find someone who really knows what they are doing.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> What everyone else who said "Don't take advice over the net - *get a behaviourist in*" said.
> 
> In the meantime, manage the situation in the ways Terry suggested.
> 
> *What on earth is a 6 year old doing telling the dog off??*


My thoughts exactly!


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

Personally, I don't consider her saying no telling the dog off. I understand that you all have your own opinions on that, however at training classes I was encouraged to bring her and for her to be an active part in the training, 2 years ago.

I'm not saying leashedforlife is suggesting that we have been doing those things, just clarifying what points we ARE reinforcing with Bella. It does also seem that everything is being taken out of context and not only my lack of dog training skills being torn apart but also my parenting. Some people are offering genuine advice, where I feel like others just want to have a go. 

Our vet has recommended a local behaviourist now and am waiting to hear back from them about an appointment. It isn't a great situation at present but we are confident that it isn't critical yet!! We are taking the warning signs and dealing with them as quickly as we can


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Let us know how it goes with your behaviourist. Hope you get things sorted

Alot of people will put it off and let things escalate which ends up in the dogs being pts, glad you're getting it sorted as soon as you've noticed it.


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## mermaid (Nov 6, 2010)

Just a quick update - still waiting for an appointment to be confirmed!! But Bella has been behaving a lot better this week. Still being cautious with her and the children.


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