# Retirement of queens



## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

I am getting my lovely new Egyptian Mau queen in two weeks and have been driving myself frantic researching as much as I can about this transition from cat owner to cat breeder. However there's on important thing I can't seem to find a good answer for - when do you retire a queen? How old is too old to safely and comfortably bear kittens, or is it just 'when they stop calling'? Abviously many queens are retired quite early as they have difficulties (two cessarians in a row consider retiring her etc) but what about a perfectly healthy girl who seems to be having no problems?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

They'll call all their lives, more or less (well at least until they're about 10, I haven't had one older than that). The issue with older queens isn't them giving birth, it's the size and viability of the litter. I guess when that starts falling off to an unacceptable level, that's the time you should certainly retire the girl if you haven't done so before. In practice most of us would be wanting to move on with our blood lines by then. I'm already thinking that maybe next year will be my last year breeding my oldest girl who will then be four.

Liz


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## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

'Moving on with our bloodlines' as in choosing a kitten you think is the superior example of the breed and having her as a queen instead? Even if your foundation queen is still producing lovely kittens?

Four is still rather a young cat in the wider scheme of things DO you end up with a household of 15 cats of varying ages with just 2 active queens at a time or something? I sometimes see breeder sites listing their retired queens as available to pet homes. I don't know if I could give away a cat I have loved for four years.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well yes, you have exactly hit the nail on the head regarding the decisions breeders have to make. My Katie produces beautiful kittens and right now four of them are with other breeders for breeding - two have already had kittens, two are only kittens themselves - and I have three here, at least two of which I am planning to breed on from. Also she is pregnant again to the same stud. I now have at least five offspring of that stud (might end up being six) to breed on from, so I need to move on from that stud too. For Katie next year there are two things I would like to do. One is to prove my younger stud, the second is to go out to stud to get a particular colour. But once I have done both of those, it would only be a case of breeding more kittens for sale, and I have to think of the number of cats here. 

Ultimately it's all down to numbers, unless you have vast amounts both of space and of money. I don't want to go above 12 cats (my husband thinks it's 6!) For every kitten you keep, you have to make space, that's the trouble. I had 30 cats once before when I didn't do that, and that really did become a problem. So then it's a matter of whether you stop breeding altogether until one cat dies and creates a space, so to speak, which could be 10 years away, or whether you rehome one you bred yourself (and which therefore has only ever had the one home) or whether you rehome one you bought in from another breeder, thus sending that cat to its third home at least (and, if you bought it in as an adult, perhpas even its fourth of fifth home). Breeding ethics demands that if you buy in a cat from another breeder, you contact that breeder first before rehoming the cat. There is girl i have that I can't see me wanting more than a couple more litters from, and she's a very difficult cat, so it might be eventually that I will want to rehome her (in fact I'd rather rehome her than Katie), but I bought her as a kitten from another breeder and would have to give that breeder first option to take her back, and it's possible that such a move might not make me very popular, I don't know, it depends on that breeder's own thoughts on the issues involved.

On the other hand, I have two cats here bought as kittens from two different breeders, and I don't think I could ever bear to part with either of them, even though they came in more recently. It isn't a case of "last in first out" or anything like that, it's just a case of which ones you can bear to part with and which you can't.

Liz


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

lizward said:


> it's just a case of which ones you can bear to part with and which you can't.
> 
> Liz


It can also be a case of which ones would benefit from being an only cat. One of our Queens is going to be retired soon and we love her a lot but she gets stressed by the other cats. Now it may be that she'll change after being spayed or that she'll make a companion for one of the studs but we may have to reluctantly rehome her.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes indeed, very good point. I rehomed one of my boys last week for exactly that reason.

Liz


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

As long as the queen is healthy and has uncomplicated births I see no problems letting her have kittens. I know queens that are still active at 9-10 years of age. However, when they become that "old" the litters are usually so small it's not "worth it".

My oldest queen is 6 years old and I'm planning for one more litter and then I'll retire her. I wanna continue with her offspring and move forward even though she produces healthy and beautyful kittens.


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

Elmstar said:


> It can also be a case of which ones would benefit from being an only cat. One of our Queens is going to be retired soon and we love her a lot but she gets stressed by the other cats. Now it may be that she'll change after being spayed or that she'll make a companion for one of the studs but we may have to reluctantly rehome her.


Our older queen is now 4, she's just had her 3rd litter (infection, c-section, spay) She's a fantatstic mum, gives us stunning babies, but whilst she was pregnant we felt that she'd "done her time" so to speak and we owed it to her to let her become a "lapcat" and enjoy her time being spoiled rotton while she was still young enough to enjoy it (and for her new family to enjoy her!)

She is an adorable girl and it's going to be a heartbreaking time - BUT she also gets very stressed around the other girls, shes very dominant. We tried keeping her in with the stud when she wasn't calling ... she terrorised him . We feel she'll be happier and more settled in a home with ie, an older couple with no young children and no other pets. At the end of the day, all we can do is keep our cats happy and safe. If she'll be happier at another home than with us - so be it!, we have to let her go 

It's a very personal choice. Whats right for one breeder or one cat, might not be right for others. Good luck with your new girl and dont forget to post some pictures!


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i dont breed and i know each person has their own choices etc but i think its great that breeding queens only get used up till they are about 4 from some breeders as the cat then gets many years just to be a pet but really as long as she is healthy and happy it should be ok. the only thing i can say about Maus is that if they have large litters, the ones i have known take a long time to get back to a healthy level


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