# DLE (collie nose) cures



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Has anyone got a collie with DLE and pigment missing off nose.

Has any of the following worked for getting their fur to grow back?

Primrose oil
Kelp & seaweed
Dermacton cream
coconut oil (in food and rubbed on nose) 
Dorwest Vetinary Nettle & Elderberry to enhance pigmentation
Freckled Paws Hot Spot ( can only find it in US so would have be to be imported) they claim excellent results so am willing to import if its worked for anyone else

Canine Discoid Lupus / Collie Nose: An Effective Holistic Treatment

I've heard its auto immune so ordered some yum puppy which claims to boost immune system and using all the above mixed in with meals.

I've switched his dish to ceramic though its got no go slow bumps just in case its the allergy to plastic bowls as his green feeder has high raised bumps which his nose could be rubbing on when he's trying to get to food. We didn't use headcollar today incase that's not helping either.

It looks like its getting bigger and going higher up his face which is such a shame as he was going go to be such a beautiful handsome dog. 

I'm worried his new food with cereal in maybe making problem worse if he does have allergy.. anyone found been completely grain free has cured it? (or made it a lot less noticeable) I'll even consider putting him on raw (and buying another freezer to accommodate this) if anyone has found fur has grown back on it??


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

What does your vet say?


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## sopott (Dec 30, 2012)

i have an autoimmune disease similar to lupus, and the WORST thing for it is immune boosters! 

an autoimmune disease means that the immune system is over active -reacting to parts of the body as if they were foreign nasties like bacteria. it means that i always feel as if i have the flu, because my immune system is always engaged, as if i was fighting something off. 

the immune system needs supporting by making the vitamins and minerals available the produce new cells. (a lot of cells are used up during an immune response) but herbs like echinecea make the problem worse. i recently tried a supplement that is supposed to encourage a healthy immune response, and it put me into bed for a week!

if it's just a skin condition and not life-threatening i would try to combat it with healthy nutrition. if it bothers the dog (itches) your vet can prescribe a steroid cream. 

as to your question about food: once the immune system is engaged in people with autoimmune disorders it often reacts to every thing! i had over 400 allergy tests and tested positive for everything, yet i am still alive. the trick is to calm the immune system down for example with drugs, and then keep a close eye on how he reacts to his food.

personally. my flare-ups can be triggered by allergies, stress, not sleeping enough, etc. 

a lot of this post is about human autoimmune disorders, but i know dogs react in a similar way, because i researched the medication i take and found out that it was tested on dogs  this isn't nice, but it has saved my life


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

ok.. I was assuming it meant it wasn't working as it should. I also noticed the pigment on his gums are changing..he was laid on back and I was ticking his tummy.. sides of his mouth some of black is now pink. sometimes area around his chin (which was all black) seem to have more pink in. so I hope he's not going to lose all his black pigment. Hopefully the nettle & elderberry will help. 

I did order the stuff from US to try as it had good reviews from people's whose collies noses' were already worse than JJ's is..I don't know at what age his face stops growing but hopefully the patch won't look as prominent by time he's finished growing.

I wondered if testosterone levels were affecting it as he seems to be having a growth spurt and is humping everything starting to take more notice of smells in field & garden rather than been focused on his ball. 

I'm wondering it getting him done so testosterone levels drop and aren't there as long, will reduce the amount of fur/pigment he loses from it?


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

What does your vet say?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

well my vet seemed to think his symptoms were connected to allergies or be possibly had a bug from when he was eating poo. 

I think some foods were especially when they caused severe squits but looks like the hair loss off nose and 'pink eye' for which he was treated with eye drops is in fact a pigment issue. 

someone pointed out to me that been able to see his 'third eyelid' which looked pink was a symptom of lack of pigmentation..had I know this he wouldn't have been treated for conjunctivitis or maybe changed food so many times assuming the thinning fur and runny eyes were allergy related. 

I will contact the animal hospital who are part of the group that own my local village vet which is not wheelchair accessible to see if they can send me a different vet for home visit who knows more about collie issues and would know for sure. 

so it seems his 'red eyes' may not mean he's intolerant to some of the foods I thought he was! I even thought he wasn't 'getting enough sleep' like humans get bloodshot eyes when have lack of sleep and sent him to bed early a few nights and made him have an extra nap in day! 

Poor JJ.. can't help thinking some of this could have been avoided if I'd been told he possibly had an inherited pigment issue that might cause loss of fur on nose and red/runny eyes.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Have you just assumed that it may be DLE? It might not be DLE often comes with sores and inflammation, there is another condition called vitiligo thats purely cosmetic and does no harm to the dog, Nanuqs got it and it can come on its own or with auto immune thyroid. The immune system with both DLE and Vitiligo which is just loss of pigmentation is makes anti bodies to the pigments and destroys the black pigment.

If you havent I would take him to the vets to get a diagnosis to whats causing the problems.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

DLE needs a skin scraping to diagnose as far as I can tell. The vet actually needs to examine him. Has the vet actually seen this new symptom (the hair loss on his nose) and said it is allergy related?

Being able to see the third eyelid is not a pigment "issue" it is just normal where there is a lack of pigment in the 3rd eyelid. Did a vet see him and treat him for conjunctivitis? If so I'd assume it was conjunctivitis and not linked to his nose. i can see Hugo's 3rd eyelids. The are pick when he is tired. It is normal.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Instead of keep assuming he has this, that or the other wrong with him why not get him tested for what you think is wrong?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

would his eyes be showing lack of pigment inside if it was vitiligo rather than DLE? ..and gums? 

I posted pic on breeders page to ask and was told it was 'normal' by other members whose dogs also had this!... whats the odds that several pups from same litters or with same parent has Vitiligo? 

The dogs involved either shared the same dad (as JJ) whose a Merle or are Merle themselves? 

I read DLE can range from mild to severe as you describe. I will be asking to see a vet who knows what he's talking about if such a vet exists around here!  

If I don't get satisfactory answer from my vets I'll have to see if family can get me to different vet for a second opinion, or take him themselves if we can't find an accessible one. 

It's a bad time to hit with extra costs as I got a big bill coming at end of month for bedroom and council tax..still paying for last home visit and Inca's test results that came back negative. 

I've still to ask Insurance if him getting snipped is covered by Insurance as vet suggested 6-9 months and wanted to know when I wanted it done. Is a reduction in testosterone likely to reduce hair loss in that areas as he grows? (on nose) ..and how much would it be if Insurance don't cover it? 

(trying to work out if its necessary right now or can give myself more time to pay for other things first)


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> would his eyes be showing lack of pigment inside if it was vitiligo rather than DLE? ..and gums?
> 
> I posted pic on breeders page to ask and was told it was 'normal' by other members whose dogs also had this!... whats the odds that several pups from same litters or with same parent has Vitiligo?
> 
> ...


I believe but you would have to check it can affect eye rims and possibly eye pogment too, I also think that it may have a genetic implication it certainly seems to affect some breeds more then others. Vitiligo is usually purely cosmetic, but Ive a feeling you dont get hair loss although the colout of the hair on the patches of skin if the body is affected can become white so may look like hair loss perhaps. It does effect lips and gums anywhere really thats black can loose pigment again I think but not sure it may affect eye pigment.
As far as I know its the immune system making antibodies against the pigment so I wouldnt think that it has anything in particular to do with sex hormones to be honest. Insurance doesnt usually cover routine things like spaying and neutering, wormers and flea treatments.

It may not be vitiligo, it was just a possible suggestion, as it can be another cause of loss of pigment to those areas. The only way you are going to find out for sure is to have tests.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> would his eyes be showing lack of pigment inside if it was vitiligo rather than DLE? ..and gums?
> 
> I posted pic on breeders page to ask and was told it was 'normal' by other members whose dogs also had this!... whats the odds that several pups from same litters or with same parent has Vitiligo?
> 
> ...


Found this as regards to blue merle and vitiligo. its in blue merle aussie shepherds though
Cosmo the Aussie Chameleon

Also vitiligo is listed in Rough collies as a health problem although it doesnt affect health as such.


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## sopott (Dec 30, 2012)

ok, this might be just me, but if it doesn't bother the dog, why does it bother you? are you planning to show him?

for a lot of these things the 'cure' can cause a lot of damage if there is nothing to cure... perfectly healthy pups get digestive trouble as their little digestive system grows. 

snoopy's third eyelid shows, and turns pink when he is tired or hot, it's just the way he looks and i found this really useful when he was a pup, because i knew when play time was over and he should have a nap. 

could the change in pigmentation be because he is still growing? i don't know about border collies, but in beagles their markings change as they grow up. snoopy has patches of tan skin on his pink tummy that change size and shape. i am still waiting for him to grow 'pubic fur'

as to the skin, if it starts to bother the pup, develops blisters, or looks infected, etc, by all means call the vet, until then i would adopt a 'if it ain't broke' approach. i just think it might not be the best to throw a lot of new things at a growing pup.

just my opinion


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Yes I realise Merles can change colour completely all over, JJ's brother was a 'slate merle' with beautiful blue eyes and 1 of the females were merle. But I really love the traditional black & white collie which is why I chose JJ as he was perfect. 

I've never heard of a black & white dog changing colour every B&W collie I've ever seen has stayed B&W! I did not know at the time though the importance of him having a father who was Merle as JJ clearly more resembled his mother which I expected he would stay those colours having taken his coat colours from her. 

tbh as the breeder has used the male dog for breeding before and some of his previous litters now grown up have this issue then they had to have have known yet are still use him to breed from, he's just fathered the last litter they've had. (sorry not sure what the proper terminology is that breeders use). 

I'll just have to live with however bad it gets as I can't afford more tests/bills right now, if don't pay some BT I'll be facing eviction. There's no guarantee any hostel (if they find one accessible) would take 2 dogs as they're legally still pets. 

I'll just do some more research to see if there's a difference between Vitiligo & DLE that would give me a clue which way a test would come out and try and save up for more visits/tests incase it gets any worse, by which time it maybe obvious which one it is..though would have been nice to be able to prevent it getting worse with the right supplement.

Obviously if one has health implications such as affecting internal organs then he's not going to be able to 'work' for me when he got old enough to take the exam. Ironic as I thought Border Collie would be the healthiest breed been bred to work outdoors in all weathers!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> Yes I realise Merles can change colour completely all over, JJ's brother was a 'slate merle' with beautiful blue eyes and 1 of the females were merle. But I really love the traditional black & white collie *which is why I chose JJ as he was perfect. *
> 
> I've never heard of a black & white dog changing colour every B&W collie I've ever seen has stayed B&W! I did not know at the time though the importance of him having a father who was Merle as JJ clearly more resembled his mother which I expected he would stay those colours having taken his coat colours from her.
> 
> ...


But surely now you have him and love him he'll always be perfect? If the boys turned a different colour or part of them dropped off I'd still love them unconditionally - they'll always be perfect to me. Apart from when they're being little gits!!

I find it unbelievable that you'd consider options like tattooing or colouring the area in - why cause him pain for something cosmetic?


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Dogless said:


> But surely now you have him and love him he'll always be perfect? If the boys turned a different colour or part of them dropped off I'd still love them unconditionally - they'll always be perfect to me. Apart from when they're being little gits!!
> 
> I find it unbelievable that you'd consider options like tattooing or colouring the area in - why cause him pain for something cosmetic?


My boy Scout has recently lost some pigment from his nose, he now has two pink patches instead of one. To me, it's an extra spot to kiss, that's all!

I agree with you, I joked about colouring it in with some black marker, but honestly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Just makes him all the more lovely. :001_wub:


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

I know nothing about either of these conditions. Do either of these conditions you have discovered actually have any physical effects if not then I fail to see how it matters, surely it is exactly and only his ability to work for you that matters and from what you have said he seems to be picking that up well.

I had alopecia a few years ago, neither my family thought I was spoilt .


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I wouldn't send him back for that reason no, but what I was worried about was that it maybe an early symptom of something that may result in more serious health concerns for example isnt DLE a form of lupus? that can affect internal organs? has higher risk of cancer? etc 

If its just a little patch there something equivalent to us having a mole/ birthmark in a specific spot no it doesn't bother me but as it seemed to be increasing I was worried about whether it was going to end up as something far more serious that may affect his ability to work for me? 

As you realise a dog with a serious medical condition would not be able to take exam when he comes of age? Inca, if she is still here will be going on for 14 by the time JJ reaches 2 (they can't take public training exam until after second birthday)...Don't forget JJ's job was to look after us both and help me stay independent as I can't afford full time PA! He was selected for this purpose not just to be a 'pet'.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

Cali is a Border Collie and is black and white she has black spots on her gums and on the roof of her mouth, that she never has a puppy.

She is just changing as she is growing up her paws went from pink with a few dots now they are all black.

If you are worried see the vet first before doing anything else.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

To be honest I think you're probably jumping the gun assuming he has serious medical problems because of a patch of pigment. Or a patch of lack of pigment as the case may be. I've not seen a pic but if I've read right this is on the bridge of his nose? Lots of dogs I know have a pink patch there and it's nothing BUT a pink patch. My black and white collie had it but I don't have a good picture of it. Same with my rottie mix, his was off to one side of his nose though.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I am confused... where is the colour change? Is it the skin on his nose (not his actual wet nose but the top of the muzzle... if you get where I mean lol) that is now pink? 

My two have both had colour changes on their skin from when they were pups... They both had pink noses (actual wet nose part lol) when they came home, and Arrow's breeder assured me that his nose would change, but I didn't care... I though the pink was actually very cute


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

hang on a sec..see if i can find enough pics on this laptop to show you what I mean.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

when first arrived there was no signs at all he had full muzzle of fur









then in certain light and head on can just see fur is starting to thin on left side right near end of nose









It's still not easy to spot even from beginning of this year








the black fur at tip of nose looks intact here and white hairs were still above it

then it starts getting 'pink tinge' just above nose









now seems to be getting bigger this last month with clear pink patches 








can see where bit of black missing ..one black bit on its own with pink around it and white fur missing or lost colour?

I have to say I put some sunscreen (doggy sunstick) on him today as it arrived in post and it instantly looked like the white fur was there, so not sure if the fur is there but has lost its colour so invisible to the eye (I can't see it anyway!) rather than the area been 'bald' as such?

He's asleep now and its soaked in/rubbed off so I'll get a pic tomorrow with the sunscreen covering that spot.

I can see some hairs over the pink but a bit of it does seem completely bare

the 'yellow' in above pic is from the Dermacton cream that I'd had one before pic was taken. It did work on Inca when she had to have head shaved to remove a lump but it doesn't seem to have done anything at all for JJ's fur coming back..or maybe its coming back in but still without colour?

I just doesn't understand why can suddenly see his pink skin underneath in that spot where rest of his face his fur is same thickness. There's no 'bald spots' anywhere else his coat is thick on body. some of his paw pads are still pink. someone told me they would all turn black when he got older.

Apart from him always having pink/red eyes which I though was allergy to his food (they did run alot but now he only seems to get sleep on his right eye in mornings)..he sometimes appears to have sleep right in the corner line of eye and if you get the end can pull it out like was very fine piece of cotton..oddly he never seems to get it in other eye now. (only had both eyes running constantly on food with wheat/oats in).


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

I can't see anything that looks abnormal :confused1:

It's normal for there to be only a very light covering of hair just above the nose, all of ours are like that. It's not very noticeable on Lyssa as both her skin and hair are black. It's very clear on the boys though, especially Arnie and Wybie who have light hair and pink skin.

It's normal for skin pigmentation there to change as well, Arnie's has changed loads over the years. Wybie's has also changed noticeably since he was born and he's not quite six months old yet. 

If you're worried it might be something sinister then you're best of taking him to the vets rather than chucking random creams and supplements at it when it may well be nothing at all.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

Cali has the same thing above her nose just a bit of pink, never had it as a pup I will try and find a pic! 

Personally I would not worry about it

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Dogless said:


> But surely now you have him and love him he'll always be perfect? If the boys turned a different colour or part of them dropped off I'd still love them unconditionally - they'll always be perfect to me. Apart from when they're being little gits!!
> 
> I find it unbelievable that you'd consider options like tattooing or colouring the area in - why cause him pain for something cosmetic?


Way to go George..


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

No expert on collies but that snout looks fine to me.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Looks fine to me also 

Honestly having read some of your threads lately you really need to stop worrying about every little thing , easier said than done i know.

Oh and stop googling and self diagnosing . Your going to make yourself ill with worry x


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

it seems odd to me as it wasn't there initially when he first arrived and just thinned in that patch.

None of our dogs have ever had this before..Inca is black anyway but her she's never looked like her fur was missing or thinner in one patch on her nose. 

Even my parents yellow lab, there was a rough collie lived next door to us then too and he never had this...so I thought must be something causing it for him to go with nose of full fur to this 'patch' out of nowhere. 

we know a few other Border Collies and they don't have this, neither do any of one's I've seen on TV so I thought it must be something in food he was still intolerant to. I didn't know this pigment issue was common to black & white collies though I've heard about in Merle's. that's why I didn't choose a merle...as they can change so completely its like a different dog..even eye colour too as I was told.


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

My Aussie gets eyes like that and he also gets a bare patch just over his nose usually in the spring i think its the pollen by the middle of the summer it has all gone


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Looks the same sort of thing my collie and my rottie mix had to be honest. Rupert and Spen have also had thin hair in that area, it's just not so obvious on them because it's not been thin white hair covering pink skin.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

cavmad said:


> My Aussie gets eyes like that and he also gets a bare patch just over his nose usually in the spring i think its the pollen by the middle of the summer it has all gone


all his hair has gone?


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

I really don't think there is anything wrong with his nose but if you're so worried take him to the vet and get a proper diagnosis (or reassurance). We can only say what we think, which is that it appears perfectly normal but you seem convinced there's something wrong, in which case your vet is the best bet.

I honestly can't see anything there that I would even think of as being a potential issue. To me your photos are just showing normal coat and skin changes as a puppy grows up.

These are rubbish photos as they're just taken off my phone but you should get the idea.










Note the very clear line between his nose and his muzzle, with no dark patches at all under the white.










A matter of weeks later and he's got clear pigmentation changes on his muzzle and the hair is thinning.

He's now nearly six months old and his skin is really, really obviously pink through the hair on his muzzle, the hair is even thinner and the pigment is still gradually changing.

This is our 14 year old:










It's a bit washed out but you can see how thin the hair on his muzzle is. It's actually much more obvious than it looks there, his skin is much pinker.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

yes I see what you mean, but I tried to explain I had never seen this before none of our dogs had this with fur changing on nose so I did not know it would happen to JJ.

what is the big toy thing looks like tree branch that your puppy is playing with in first pic? JJ would love that to chew on!


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> what is the big toy thing looks like tree branch that your puppy is playing with in first pic? JJ would love that to chew on!


It's a well-loved Stagbar, they're very popular in this house!!


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong in the pics, looks perfectly normal to me 

Here is a pic of Arrow a few days after he came home...


And now... not the best pics because it is a bit dull and he is splattered with mud  but his pink bit is visible quite far up his nose (and is far more noticeable in the flesh) and there is a fair bit more pink than there was when he was pup. 


Whereas with Jake you can't see anything like that... I think it is just the difference in the fur type.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JJ has some small easy antlers and tips but he's never shown an interest on them until recently. He only just gnawed half way through half a small easy antler chew but I was worried about him choking on it as its small. 

I think I'll have to go with a bigger size even the small antler tips looks like could slide down his throat as he likes to roll on his back with them in his mouth recently..though never shown an interest in them up to now had them since he was really little! 

He's got a big half antler I keep trying to encourage him to gnaw on that more as its impossible for him to swallow whole!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

lozzibear said:


> I don't see anything wrong in the pics, looks perfectly normal to me
> 
> Here is a pic of Arrow a few days after he came home...
> 
> ...


yeah but you see how your puppy has the pink patch right from beginning? JJ's wasn't it was covered fully like Inca's is and your other dog so I had no reason to think it would go pink! ..i did not know it was considered 'normal' for this breed to start with full nose of fur and change to looking 'bald' or thin and still be considered as normal thing and not a fault or something.

Reading stuff online where people have shown their dogs ..loss of pigment on noses seem to be marked down or not accepted? with some mentioning stuff they had tried, to enhance pigmentation..so thought it was seen as a 'genetic fault' on a pedigree in the dog world? As I'd read about 'barbie collies' where they are bred to make sure their coats are perfect..(probably the type I've seen on crufts) and what I was expecting JJ to grow up to look like as he had no pink on nose when I chose him.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Our Collie had a fully-furred white muzzle as a pup, and as she grew the hair thinned to show the pink skin underneath; looked a lot like JJ's. Once she was full grown it didn't spread any further and never caused her any harm (but it did make the scar she acquired from a falling brick more obvious!).
You can see here how little fur Breeze has above her nose, she's only got a few bristles and has been like that since we got her aged 7. Obviously she's no collie but is another example of normal pigment loss - she'd have been born with a black or nearly black nose.









I know it's easier said than done but please stop fretting. Seeing as it's not bothering him I'd just keep an eye on the area and the condition of the skin underneath rather than searching high or low for cures for something he may not have!


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

If you're worried it's a medical issue then take him to he vet. 

If it's just cosmetic does it really matter? You talk about 'faults' and dogs being marked down in showing but is this actually relevant to what you want from JJ?

You seem determined to find something wrong with him no matter what we say so I think some reassurance (or a diagnosis) from a professional is what you need.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> yeah but you see how your puppy has the pink patch right from beginning? JJ's wasn't it was covered fully like Inca's is and your other dog so I had no reason to think it would go pink! ..i did not know it was considered 'normal' for this breed to start with full nose of fur and change to looking 'bald' or thin and still be considered as normal thing and not a fault or something.
> 
> Reading stuff online where people have shown their dogs ..loss of pigment on noses seem to be marked down or not accepted? with some mentioning stuff they had tried, to enhance pigmentation..so thought it was seen as a 'genetic fault' on a pedigree in the dog world? As I'd read about 'barbie collies' where they are bred to make sure their coats are perfect..(probably the type I've seen on crufts) and what I was expecting JJ to grow up to look like as he had no pink on nose when I chose him.


Im sorry but earlier in the thread you say he was chosen to be an assistance dog only but here you say the reason you chose him was because he had no pink on his nose and was a barbie collie.

This pigment thing doesnt happen to every collie so no use in saying the rough you knew did't have it. None of mine ever have but I have seen those who do too.

If it is a fault in judging, so be it. But I knew of a rough champion with the same thing as Jj on her nose. There is no reason to not use the stud because of this.

Really I would stop putting anything on it and let him be.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

he's not a barbie collie he comes from working farm but he did originally have no pink on his nose. 

He was one of the ones I was interested in and I emailed the owner saying he would be an assistance dog to see if they recommended a particular one temperament wise. 

I've only just read the term 'barbie collie' the other day..I don't see what's wrong with wanting your dog to look perfect. 

I have put some sunscreen on today as it arrived and I don't want to increase his risk of cancer from him having a pink nose. Having had both parents died from cancer (with initial symptoms that were overlooked or diagnosed as something until it was too late) I'm a bit paranoid about the big C! No-one in our family has ever survived it  

One thing I did notice after applying sunscreen was all his fur appears to be there which suggests to me the hairs are there but have lost their pigment as if the area was completely bald the cream would have just soaked in as no hairs for it to 'coat'? 

I really don't see anything wrong with wanting your dog to look perfect and using supplements to enhance pigment or help it grow back/look better. to me it looks much better in second pic where sunscreen makes the whole area look white to match rest of his nose.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> I really don't see anything wrong with wanting your dog to look perfect and using supplements to enhance pigment or help it grow back/look better. to me it looks much better in second pic where sunscreen makes the whole area look white to match rest of his nose.


To be honest I would much rather focus on sorting out his ongoing digestive issues rather than mucking about throwing supplements at him in the hope of fixing something that isn't actually a problem.

If I'm being totally honest I would have preferred Fitz not to have premature greying, he was so stunningly handsome when his mask was was jet black as a youngster. I hoped Wybie wouldn't have it either but he's going grey even quicker than Fitz did. I hasn't occurred to me, even for a moment, to try and dye them or use quack remedies in the hope of changing how they look.

I didn't get them to look a certain way though, I got them to be loving companions and they are, in my eyes, absolute perfection regardless of how they look.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

But he should look perfect with the pink mark too.

Im sorry but a small blemish doesnt mean he doesnt look perfect and as an assistance dog I would be more worried about his legs being ok then nose pigment.

Loads of dogs have it. You say his brothers and sisters do without any health problems. To me it seems you are only worried about the way he looks, which to me looks perfect anyway.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> Looks fine to me also
> 
> Honestly having read some of your threads lately you really need to stop worrying about every little thing , easier said than done i know.
> 
> Oh and stop googling and self diagnosing . Your going to make yourself ill with worry x


What a good post.

Can I add that not everything written on the Internet is true you know. Trouble is, there's no way of knowing the difference between fact or fiction.

Fair enough reading up about a subject to have some valid questions to discuss with a vet, but if your vet tells you there's nothing to worry about, then there probably isn't. At least you know that the letters after your vets name mean they've actually studied for years, rather than just posting what is effectively an opinion.

And if you're still anxious after seeing one vet, you can always get a second opinion.

Maybe you'll be able to relax a bit about everything then?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

As I see it he had it from a puppy and it has got bigger, but so has his nose.

Take Alfie. He has a line of markings on his nose. As a tiny pup it was a small smudge but now his nose is longer, so is his fluted line.

I have to say I saw on the other forum where the other members showed you their dogs also have it and are healthy and happy. I really dont think it is something a breeder would disclose as it is there for you to see anyway and it isnt a problem or flaw. There are champion dogs who have just the same.
Please stop looking for things to make it look better. Tattoos and black markers are cruel and rubbing things on something that is natural will make it worse and maybe loose the hair. Its pink skin with fine white hair. Every collie has a bit of thining hair towards the nose but if skin is pink and fur white it shows through.

Also testosterone will not make any difference to it.
Life isnt perfect but if a dog doesnt care about his hair on his nose. They are not vain like us. He just wants love and nothing more

Leave well enough alone.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

I really don't understand. 

I suppose then if you were me and adopted what was supposedly a Pedigree Pomeranian you'd have sent him back by now? (He most definitely *isn't* a full Pom' lol - not the rescues' fault though!) 

Do we care?? No! We love him. Just as he is. Because he's Teddy. Our Teddy! I loved him the minute I held him in my arms. 

My rats were beautiful black rats. Then one of them decided to barber her sisters. This is something I've not been able to stop and it doesn't bother the rats so why worry?! They have bald patches all over their faces and have had them for most of their lives. I love them just the way they are!

Please stop worrying. Enjoy your dogs for what they are! For their lovely little characters and quirks and individualness.

My sister's BC has a very pink nose. He also has unusually long legs and hasn't filled out as you'd expect a BC to. Does she care? No! He's lovely and his appearance just adds to his personality.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

You dog has a pink nose. That's all. It is perfectly normal for collies to have pink skin under their white bits, especially on the face. If you want to use sun-cream to protect it that seems sensible enough, and the hair will probably thicken up a bit as he ages anyway.

There is nothing "not perfect" about it - It's just normal!


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> yeah but you see how your puppy has the pink patch right from beginning? JJ's wasn't it was covered fully like Inca's is and your other dog so I had no reason to think it would go pink! ..i did not know it was considered 'normal' for this breed to start with full nose of fur and change to looking 'bald' or thin and still be considered as normal thing and not a fault or something.
> 
> Reading stuff online where people have shown their dogs ..loss of pigment on noses seem to be marked down or not accepted? with some mentioning stuff they had tried, to enhance pigmentation..so thought it was seen as a 'genetic fault' on a pedigree in the dog world? As I'd read about 'barbie collies' where they are bred to make sure their coats are perfect..(probably the type I've seen on crufts) and what I was expecting JJ to grow up to look like as he had no pink on nose when I chose him.


He had a slight pink bit, my point was that his pink bit is much larger now, and depending on the light it goes right up his nose. I did say you can notice it more in the flesh.

If I am honest, you seem way to bothered by this... Like you said, Arrow had this when I got him and did it bother me??? No. It didn't, because it is something so small and irrelevant. It doesn't affect his quality of life.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I've lost count of the number of Collies I've known and met over the years. Had 2 in the family, used to work for a lady who bred them, have met plenty in boarding and rescue kennels, and have Collie-owning friends.
The vast, _vast_ majority of these dogs have had pink above their nose. It is normal to the point where I've found myself looking twice at those who don't have it.

I'm sure JJ is a lovely boy whatever colour his nose is, and I'm sure he loves you unconditionally, so please try to look past that cute little pink patch at the dog underneath, for his sake and yours.
To be honest, if a perfect-looking dog was of such high priority then buying a show quality pup from a show breeder would have been a better option than buying a farm-bred Collie.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry, I just don't see the big deal about him not looking "perfect". Perhaps if you'd wanted a "perfect" looking collie a show bred one would have been more appropriate. But I would think that even show bred ones can have pink above their nose. It's not something that's always obvious in pics. Out of the few pics I have of my collie on computer it's only visible in one of them.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Sorry, I just don't see the big deal about him not looking "perfect". Perhaps if you'd wanted a "perfect" looking collie a show bred one would have been more appropriate. But I would think that even show bred ones can have pink above their nose. It's not something that's always obvious in pics. Out of the few pics I have of my collie on computer it's only visible in one of them.


This is a good point too. What photos are put forward.

I mentioned a rough collie champion who had one on her nose. Well in all her show photos where she is posing you cannot see it. The photo where it is visible is a casual one in the whelping box.


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## patterdalelass (Dec 7, 2012)

O.p. your dog is perfectly fine,nothing wrong there at all.
You mention pigmentation in the show world,that is the actual nose itself.Some dogs noses turn paler over the winter months,we call it winter nose.Perfectly natural occurence.It can be helped with various supplements like kelp.
Your boy is fine,really,it happens with white fur.
Enjoy your happy healthy lad just as he is.


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