# HELP!!!! Kitten problem



## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi all can anyone please help my cat Tinkerbell gave birth to 5 beautiful kittens friday morning, i've woke up this morning to find one of the kittens listless and looks like a orange/red liquid coming form its mouth and nose, later this morning it died. Now the same is happening to another one please help i'm now worried that i will lose them all.


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## ajohnson (May 4, 2011)

I'd get them to the vets right now.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Emergency vets NOW - I dont know what it is but with one passing away and symptoms showing on another I wouldn't wait another second!!!


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## 2lisa2 (Apr 30, 2010)

same here hun right to the vets


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Vet ASAP and get a post mortem/necropsy done on the dead one, to see what you are dealing with.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Agree with all the above. Please don't delay any longer posting on the internet! You might lose them all!


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## Mistyweather (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh I am so sorry to hear this. My best wishes to you and your kittens


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2011)

Get them to aVETS NOW!!!!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Hey careful Kath ... I nearly got banned for posting in a similar way a while ago 

I hope you're on your way to the vets now OP, and that the kittens have the best chance.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> Hey careful Kath ... I nearly got banned for posting in a similar way a while ago
> 
> I hope you're on your way to the vets now OP, and that the kittens have the best chance.


WHAT!!! Did you???? Umm why????

It is a form of posting in a emergency, she has already lost one kitten today and i would of took them straight to the vets then to be honest.


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## DiamondKitty (Apr 16, 2011)

I do hope that they are okay!! I am sorry for your loss, I does sound awfully traumatic  Please give us an update as soon as you can!!

Wishing yourself, mummy cat and babies all the best ..xx..


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

KathrynH said:


> WHAT!!! Did you???? Umm why????
> 
> It is a form of posting in a emergency, she has already lost one kitten today and i would of took them straight to the vets then to be honest.


I know, you don't have to tell me! I was told I was too forceful


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> I know, you don't have to tell me! I was told I was too forceful


Well when you read threads like this it is too hard not to say it how it is i am afraid.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2011)

take them to the VET NOW!!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I certainly wouldnt be on here if orange liquid was coming out of my kittens mouth and one had died.

vets asap and get a post mortom done aswell incase it has infected the entire litter :frown2:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Lou you've been back on in the last hour ... did you get them to the vet and what happened ... are they OK?


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi everyone i have lost the second kitten waiting for post mortom. Vet is puzzled as to what is wrong but is happy that the other three look well and are feeding. He said it could be an internal injury, but i'm not really sure how that could of happened the only thing i can think of is mum laying on them. If i have any more probs then to go back with them. My vets that i use are open tomorrow morning so will contact them


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

rip little ones 

Lets hope that the other 3 stay well!, keep us updated and im sure everyone will be sending positive vibes for you and the little ones xxx


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2011)

Lou's Rags said:


> Hi all can anyone please help my cat Tinkerbell gave birth to 5 beautiful kittens friday morning, i've woke up this morning to find one of the kittens listless and looks like a orange/red liquid coming form its mouth and nose, later this morning it died. Now the same is happening to another one please help i'm now worried that i will lose them all.


Not read any of the posts that other members have made! I am replying to the original post - There is only one reply in my view!
Your cat has had kittens
YOU have allowed that
YOU owe it to her and those kittens to see a vet!
DT


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lou's Rags said:


> Hi everyone i have lost the second kitten waiting for post mortom. Vet is puzzled as to what is wrong but is happy that the other three look well and are feeding. He said it could be an internal injury, but i'm not really sure how that could of happened the only thing i can think of is mum laying on them. If i have any more probs then to go back with them. My vets that i use are open tomorrow morning so will contact them


So sorry for the two you lost  RIP little ones
I hope the rest are okay and the post mortem doesn't show up anything which might affect the others.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Sorry to heat about your two kittens x

Hope other three are ok x


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

As a breeder i was absolutely shocked that you did not react a lot quicker than you did, you had a dead kitten in the morning but didn't do anything with it and then posted on here at nearly 5pm asking what should you do because you had potentially ANOTHER dying kitten??? 

Your a cat breeder!!!! You should know what the hell you are doing???? 

And as a breeder your vet should of been your first point of call not a bloody pet forum!!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> As a breeder i was absolutely shocked that you did not react a lot quicker than you did, you had a dead kitten in the morning but didn't do anything with it and then posted on here at nearly 5pm asking what should you do because you had potentially ANOTHER dying kitten???
> 
> Your a cat breeder!!!! You should know what the hell you are doing????
> 
> And as a breeder your vet should of been your first point of call not a bloody pet forum!!


to be fair we don't know at what point the vet was contacted.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

Cloudygirl said:


> to be fair we don't know at what point the vet was contacted.


If you read the original post you will read that the kitten died in the morning and then she was on here at teatime saying that another kitten was ill and lifeless and what should she do?


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

KathrynH I did contact the vets first thing.I posted on here incase anyone has dealt with this problem before and give me some idea what i was dealing with, as i couldn't get to the vets until the afternoon as my 6 year old was celebrating his birthday party and i had a house full of kids. It drives me mad when people assume things without asking for full details or asking for details. I come on here for support and advise whilst waiting to see the vet.
It wouldn't of made any difference if i had got to the vets sooner as other visit today confirmed that they have a lung infection and probable going to lose the whole litter. Nothing the vet can do!!


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH I did contact the vets first thing.I posted on here incase anyone has dealt with this problem before and give me some idea what i was dealing with, as i couldn't get to the vets until the afternoon as my 6 year old was celebrating his birthday party and i had a house full of kids. It drives me mad when people assume things without asking for full details or asking for details. I come on here for support and advise whilst waiting to see the vet.
> It wouldn't of made any difference if i had got to the vets sooner as other visit today confirmed that they have a lung infection and probable going to lose the whole litter. Nothing the vet can do!!


As i have said, as a supposed cat breeder the vets should of been your FIRST point of call, YOU did not know what is wrong with those kittens until the vet TOLD you today.

As soon as you found the kitten you should of taken it and the rest of the litter straight to the vets that morning. Your child birthday party should of come second unfortunately as YOU are responsible for these animals life, it is YOUR choice to breed them.

Sorry if this sounds so harsh but it is because of what has happened, yes a lung infection is completely out of your control and i understand that, but saying "it doesn't matter what time i went to the vets as there is nothing the vet can do is a pathetic excuse in my opinion, YOU have only found that out today.

Let's hope that as a breeder you are more prepared if there is a next time as you clearly were not prepared this time. :


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

KathrynH
How can you be prepared for something out of your control that don't make sense, i said in my previous message that i did contact the vets first thing and they thought it was internal injury and to take the kittens back home as they were feeding and in the mean time another started showing symptoms which resulted to having her put to sleep, it was then i was told it was a lung infection and to hope for the best for the last remaining two. And How do you cancel a child's Birthday party you can't!!. It just happened on the worst possible day. Just please don't tell me i wasn't prepared, i have prepared for this day for 2 years now. And something awful happened that was unforeseen and completely out of my control.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

Lou's Rags said:


> Hi all can anyone please help my cat Tinkerbell gave birth to 5 beautiful kittens friday morning, i've woke up this morning to find one of the kittens listless and looks like a orange/red liquid coming form its mouth and nose, later this morning it died. Now the same is happening to another one please help i'm now worried that i will lose them all.





Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH I did contact the vets first thing.I posted on here incase anyone has dealt with this problem before and give me some idea what i was dealing with, as i couldn't get to the vets until the afternoon as my 6 year old was celebrating his birthday party and i had a house full of kids. It drives me mad when people assume things without asking for full details or asking for details. I come on here for support and advise whilst waiting to see the vet.
> It wouldn't of made any difference if i had got to the vets sooner as other visit today confirmed that they have a lung infection and probable going to lose the whole litter. Nothing the vet can do!!


Fraid I have to agree with the 'harsher' members on this one Lou
You initial post reads as
The kitten were ill.
The kitten died.
Another is ill.

Personally if I had been in you shoes I could have been responsible for the catering for the queens birthday party and still my first priority would have been the vets immediately after discovering the first kitten were sick!

NOW if there has been a nissuderstanding and you HAD contacted thevet prior to posting then perphaps you should have mentioned that!

You cannot blame folk for jumping to the wrong conclusion when you only write half a story , these folk are passinate about there cats so tend to say it like it is - or in this instance how it reads! 
DT

that said, I am sure I am not alone in wishing you the very best with the remaining litter and praying that they survive.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH
> How can you be prepared for something out of your control that don't make sense, i said in my previous message that i did contact the vets first thing and they thought it was internal injury and to take the kittens back home as they were feeding and in the mean time another started showing symptoms which resulted to having her put to sleep, it was then i was told it was a lung infection and to hope for the best for the last remaining two. And How do you cancel a child's Birthday party you can't!!. It just happened on the worst possible day. Just please don't tell me i wasn't prepared, i have prepared for this day for 2 years now. And something awful happened that was unforeseen and completely out of my control.


I will say it AGAIN as a cat BREEDER that you call yourself, WHY would you organise a children's party when you KNOW your cat is going to give birth, if anything you make sure there are other adults there that if you have to make a mad dash to the vets can be there for the children's party etc and keep an eye on the kids for you.

Your ORIGINAL post does not say you went to the vets, the kitten was found in the morning you then came on here at teatime to ask if anyone has any advice or been through the same thing.

So what you are NOW saying is that between finding the kitten in the morning and your post on here you took the kittens to the vets and they told you to take them back home as THOUGHT it was an internal injury????


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi DoubleTrouble thats fair enough and i understand that, no one is more upset about the situation as i am. To be honest when i wrote my first thread i was rushing i had so much going on yesterday.


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

Come on uys- she's lost 2 kittens and will probably lose her entire first litter. Yes, kids party shouldn't have been a priority but I'm sure lessons will have been learnt. No more ear bashing needed.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

cat_gaga said:


> Come on uys- she's lost 2 kittens and will probably lose her entire first litter. Yes, kids party shouldn't have been a priority but I'm sure lessons will have been learnt. No more ear bashing needed.


I really hope lessons have been learnt on this occasion, just makes me angry and upset to read such posts like this one. 

I will leave this thread now, i have said my piece.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I presume by your name they are Ragdolls. Are the parents tested for HCM? If not, then what you may be dealing with is heart failure and not lung infections.
Both can cause excess build up of fluid in the lungs with blood stained fluid. Swabs can be sent from the dead kittens for the HCM DNA test, if neither parent is tested.

If it is unlikely that it is HCM as both parents are negative then I would get your vet to send away specimens for culture from the dead kittens and also swab the mother to see exactly what bugs you are dealing with.


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## hope (May 25, 2011)

thats so sad to hear. hope the rest of the litter are ok


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH I did contact the vets first thing.I posted on here incase anyone has dealt with this problem before and give me some idea what i was dealing with, as i couldn't get to the vets until the afternoon as my 6 year old was celebrating his birthday party and i had a house full of kids. It drives me mad when people assume things without asking for full details or asking for details. I come on here for support and advise whilst waiting to see the vet.
> It wouldn't of made any difference if i had got to the vets sooner as other visit today confirmed that they have a lung infection and probable going to lose the whole litter. Nothing the vet can do!!





Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH
> How can you be prepared for something out of your control that don't make sense, i said in my previous message that i did contact the vets first thing and they thought it was internal injury and to take the kittens back home as they were feeding and in the mean time another started showing symptoms which resulted to having her put to sleep, it was then i was told it was a lung infection and to hope for the best for the last remaining two. And How do you cancel a child's Birthday party you can't!!. It just happened on the worst possible day. Just please don't tell me i wasn't prepared, i have prepared for this day for 2 years now. And something awful happened that was unforeseen and completely out of my control.


I am SO shocked its un-real, I can not beleive that ANYONE with a brain or heart wouldnt go straight to the vet, im sorry but sod the bloody party, and go straight to the vets, the kittens didnt ask to be born and its a life, YOU are responicable for!!

You know what Ive spent over £1,000 in the past 3weeks on vet fees, from normal hours to emerge out of hours vet fees, 11.30pm, 2am, and beyond. and NOTHING and I mean NOTHING would stop me me going, not my sisters hen night, not my sisters 40th birthday, not my mum birthdays, bloody nothing, and i missed them all, but Im sorry compared to a life, it means nothing to me.

I hope that you are having post mortoms done on both kittens, incase you need to neuter mum and dad and inform the stud owner.


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Yes Tb your absolutely right i am completely in the wrong i was left i a difficult situation with no immediate help to hand, as i had such uneventful birth and healthy feeding kittens i didn't expect anything to go wrong so quickly. To be honest when i first saw the kitten with the orange colour liquid i thought it looked like urine as it was such a small amount and kitten was still feeding well. It was much later that morning that i realised that something was much more sinister going on. But by that stage i already had people turning up. Of course i contacted the vets straight away and explained everything and as soon as i was able to i got there straight away with mum and all kittens and i was sent back home with not much help or advice to be honest , but felt it was an internal injury. And then the following morning when another one showed the same symptoms that i went back to my own vet who thought it was a lung infection. They are going to do a post mortom, and thankfully the two kittens i have left seem well. No one feels more worse about this than i do, i just hope that my remaining two pull through. I just want peoples support please!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Lou's Rags said:


> Yes Tb your absolutely right i am completely in the wrong i was left i a difficult situation with no immediate help to hand, as i had such uneventful birth and healthy feeding kittens i didn't expect anything to go wrong so quickly. To be honest when i first saw the kitten with the orange colour liquid i thought it looked like urine as it was such a small amount and kitten was still feeding well. It was much later that morning that i realised that something was much more sinister going on. But by that stage i already had people turning up. Of course i contacted the vets straight away and explained everything and as soon as i was able to i got there straight away with mum and all kittens and i was sent back home with not much help or advice to be honest , but felt it was an internal injury. And then the following morning when another one showed the same symptoms that i went back to my own vet who thought it was a lung infection. They are going to do a post mortom, and thankfully the two kittens i have left seem well. No one feels more worse about this than i do, i just hope that my remaining two pull through. I just want peoples support please!!


their wee should be a clear colour, and infact you will never see it as mum clears it unless you make them go to the loo, so certainly wouldnt be out of their mouths,


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

I am just a cat owner not a breeder so I can offer no advice, but I really hope the other two kittens are fine and healthy, and that the PM on the kittens you lost doesn't show any defect in the Mum cat/other kittens.

Good luck, and please let us know how the kittens & Mum are doing.


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

TB i know urine won't be coming out of there mouths that would be impossible unless they were born with a fistula. No i meant around its mouth area it wasn't clear where it was coming from i thought it had come from one of the other kitten when they huddle up.

Thankyou Lumboo for your kind wishes


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Lou's Rags said:


> TB i know urine won't be coming out of there mouths that would be impossible unless they were born with a fistula. No i meant around its mouth area it wasn't clear where it was coming from i thought it had come from one of the other kitten when they huddle up.
> 
> Thankyou Lumboo for your kind wishes


it wouldnt be that colour, its clear fluid, unless they had serve upset tums but they would be covered, so you would notice, but I cant see a few day old kitten having that as they are just having milk.

its very odd ive never seen or heard of that before, when will you know? my vets are pretty good, PM's only take a few hours


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

In 19 years of breeding I've never seen a symptom like that.

I will say in defence of the OP (and at the risk of making myself unpopular) that there is actually very little vets will do for ailing newborns. The reasoning seems to be that if you dose them with antibiotics you have no way of knowing if the original condition killed them or the antibiotics (think compensation claims!). Besides which, by the time the antibiotics have started to work the kitten is already at the point of no return. Now, if there is a breeder here who has seen the vet with newborns and the vet has actually given any treatment that really has worked, I will be very happy to eat my words, but frankly with tiny kittens by the time you realise something is wrong it is usually too late. 

OP, are the remaining kittens OK?

Liz


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

Lou's Rags said:


> 5 beautiful kittens friday morning, i've woke up this morning to find one of the kittens listless and looks like a orange/red liquid coming form its mouth and nose, later this morning it died. Now the same is happening to another one please help i'm now worried that i will lose them all.





Lou's Rags said:


> Hi everyone i have lost the second kitten waiting for post mortom. Vet is puzzled as to what is wrong but is happy that the other three look well and are feeding.





Lou's Rags said:


> KathrynH
> they thought it was internal injury and to take the kittens back home as they were feeding and in the mean time another started showing symptoms which resulted to having her put to sleep, it was then i was told it was a lung infection and to hope for the best for the last remaining two.


Sorry to hear about the sad news but I am slightly confused with the number of kittens you have left. Going by above one minute its 3 then its 2 How are the ?number of remaining ones now


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i am so sorry to read this, how awful,i have my fingers crossed for the remaining kittens,xxx_


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

A lung infection? Is there any treatment being tried? I am sorry, this is absolutely rotten for you and I know exactly what it is like.

Liz


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## flosskins (Jan 27, 2010)

lizward said:


> In 19 years of breeding I've never seen a symptom like that.
> 
> I will say in defence of the OP (and at the risk of making myself unpopular) that there is actually very little vets will do for ailing newborns. The reasoning seems to be that if you dose them with antibiotics you have no way of knowing if the original condition killed them or the antibiotics (think compensation claims!). Besides which, by the time the antibiotics have started to work the kitten is already at the point of no return. Now, if there is a breeder here who has seen the vet with newborns and the vet has actually given any treatment that really has worked, I will be very happy to eat my words, but frankly with tiny kittens by the time you realise something is wrong it is usually too late.
> 
> ...


My vets were the same, i called them to say my kitten was going downhill. Their first question wS how old, and as soon as i said 6 days they said sorry there is nothing we can do just keep it warm and get fluid in it if you can, they had nothing else to offer, so while the OP posts sounded confusing I think its easy not to make yourself clear when upset, and also i have bern asking for advice on here and not always using my vets as first point of call because as far as they are concernede there is nothing they can do unless mum is sick.


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your kind words I have two surviving kittens being the last was put to sleep sunday morning so touch wood the other two are going to be fine but trying not to get my hopes up. Your right about the antibiotics the vet wouldn't give as he said it would weaken there immune systems i.m just making sure that i disinfect everything daily and changing the bedding twice daily. This has been a horrible first experience but i,m sure theres more highs than lows in breeding.Well i hope so!!


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## tylow (Feb 11, 2009)

So sorry about your kittens and really hope the remaining kitts continue to do well. Two of our friends have recently lost kittens and had problems with the mothers so i can appreciate what your going through. It's just one big emotional rollercoaster.


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through and also so very sorry that you feel you have to defend yourself or your actions against other members on here who feel that they are superior owners/breeders just because they would have done things differently. How about these breeders who are on here posting as their queens are giving birth instead of reassuring them and checking that all is OK with the kittens? But no - they want to show off their latest litter and see how many views and responses they can get as that in some way shows popularity. No-one asked for more information from you - just assumed that you couldn't be bothered to take action and chose the easy option of coming on here whilst your kittens faded and died.

I actually used to be on here under a different user name and asked for my membership to be deleted because it drove me mad watching the nastiness that went on in the cat forums. I then decided to come back on and give advice to the people that genuinely needed it and weren't getting it on here - I would PM people and give advice that way and it was always gratefully received.

I have recently stopped breeding because I didn't have the time to dedicate to my children due to the amount of time needed for breeding and the obvious problems when things went wrong. I didn't want to look back and say that actually my children felt 2nd best to my pets, when in fact that would never be the case. My cats fit in with my life, not the other way round and whilst I do my best to working out timings etc, it isn't always easy and sometimes things do clash.

I really hope that the remaining kittens do well and that you don't have to go through any more losses

CM.


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Cooniemum Thankyou for that lovely message you have really made me feel a lot better and not the worse breeder ever. I have meet some really nice breeders and some really horrible unsupportive one's. I think they forget that they were once new to it. Thank you again


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

Cooniemum said:


> I am so sorry to hear what you are going through and also so very sorry that you feel you have to defend yourself or your actions against other members on here who feel that they are superior owners/breeders just because they would have done things differently. How about these breeders who are on here posting as their queens are giving birth instead of reassuring them and checking that all is OK with the kittens? But no - they want to show off their latest litter and see how many views and responses they can get as that in some way shows popularity. No-one asked for more information from you - just assumed that you couldn't be bothered to take action and chose the easy option of coming on here whilst your kittens faded and died.
> 
> Quite right. One day, those on their high horses may well get whacked in the face by a thorny branch. I've lost kittens- a whole litter once. I woke one morning to find one had passed away in the night and the vet just told me to hope for the best and sent me packing. They all died within 24 hours. Its a horrible, horrible thing to endure. And breeding is a learning process and we all start at the beginning.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cooniemum said:


> I am so sorry to hear what you are going through and also so very sorry that you feel you have to defend yourself or your actions against other members on here who feel that they are superior owners/breeders just because they would have done things differently. How about these breeders who are on here posting as their queens are giving birth instead of reassuring them and checking that all is OK with the kittens? But no - they want to show off their latest litter and see how many views and responses they can get as that in some way shows popularity. No-one asked for more information from you - just assumed that you couldn't be bothered to take action and chose the easy option of coming on here whilst your kittens faded and died.
> 
> I actually used to be on here under a different user name and asked for my membership to be deleted because it drove me mad watching the nastiness that went on in the cat forums. I then decided to come back on and give advice to the people that genuinely needed it and weren't getting it on here - I would PM people and give advice that way and it was always gratefully received.
> 
> ...


There is alot of difference between sitting next to your girl while she gives birth and having your comp next to you, some people like advice as it goes along, or it can take a few hours. You can put it down and be with her asap if anything looks wrong.

To having a party and leaving a kitten suffering with orange liquid coming out of its mouth and doing nothing, when the last one it happened to died, yes it may also die, but dont leave it, you take it to be pts, to take it out of its suffering, yes it will cost, money but thats tuff tits, thats what breeding is. Ive now spent over £1,000 in the past 4weeks on vet fees for kittens, up there at all hours, its their lifes in my hands its up to the breeder to do all you can. 

NO one is saying that anyone is a bad breeder who loses kittens, Id be surprised if anyone can go many many years without losing a kitten, nothing is garenteed, with animals or humans, my sister & her baby nearly died, no one see that coming  :frown2:

Everyone has given advice and moved on from this now and the PM is awaiting PM results, Im very intriuged to see what it is as many other breeders expressed we have never seen anything like this before.

Lous rags have you had the results yet? My vet is really good and its normally only takes a few hours.


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi TB The vets say it was a severe baterial infection that caused pneumonia, they could of picked it up from me, Tinks or my other cats. Althuough she has been separated from my other cats, i was sure i had done my utmost to keep everything sterile and clean.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Lou's Rags said:


> Hi TB The vets say it was a severe baterial infection that caused pneumonia, they could of picked it up from me, Tinks or my other cats. Althuough she has been separated from my other cats, i was sure i had done my utmost to keep everything sterile and clean.


it is very hard, have you got them in a seperate room? sorry just read that you have, have you used anti b on your hands onceyou have stroked your other cats? we keep it dotted about the house so if I stroke one outside where the kits are I know that im safe sort of thing, even though I guess things will be in the air anyway, it is hard really. I use this aswell:

you can spray it on after you have done the litter tray out as litter trays and food bowls can spread worse then anything 
Johnson's Clean and Safe Disinfectant for Cats Trigger Spray 500ml | Pets at Home

what area do you have them in in a box? have to make sure they keep warm as the litter isnt that big so could even put the heating on, ive had mine on and its bloody sweating in here  :eek6: remember bedding to be changed/washed daily.

so sad  poor babies, have they said to treat mum just incase?


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## Lou's Rags (Jun 9, 2011)

HI TB They haven't said anything about treating mum should i mention it when i went to the vets i took mum as well and he just said he wasn't concerned about mum as she seems fit and well. I do use that spray but when i mentioned it to the vets he said i must use bleach as its the best thing to use at killing all germs, just to leave it on for 10 minutes before washing off. I use alcohol gel as well maybe not enough thou. And i have kittens in a birthing box i had it hand made its all inclosed with an opening at the front, i had them on heat pads but have taken them off it today as very warm.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Lou's Rags said:


> HI TB They haven't said anything about treating mum should i mention it when i went to the vets i took mum as well and he just said he wasn't concerned about mum as she seems fit and well. I do use that spray but when i mentioned it to the vets he said i must use bleach as its the best thing to use at killing all germs, just to leave it on for 10 minutes before washing off. I use alcohol gel as well maybe not enough thou. And i have kittens in a birthing box i had it hand made its all inclosed with an opening at the front, i had them on heat pads but have taken them off it today as very warm.


yeah im not to much fo a fan of heat pads as kittens/mum/blankets can keep them warm, if they get dyhdrated they can die 

some people use bleach, but you cant spray it over the litter, thats just cleaning it out x amount of times, with this one you spray it on as soon as you do the litter out & can clean floors with it, safe for cats and kills 99.9% of cat illness's  when cats use the tray if they are ill, another cat goes in and treads in it etc, so this kills any germs, have found it fab, on floors to etc


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> As a breeder i was absolutely shocked that you did not react a lot quicker than you did, you had a dead kitten in the morning but didn't do anything with it and then posted on here at nearly 5pm asking what should you do because you had potentially ANOTHER dying kitten???
> 
> Your a cat breeder!!!! You should know what the hell you are doing????
> 
> And as a breeder your vet should of been your first point of call not a bloody pet forum!!


Okay i think she may have posted on here while waiting for a response for the emergancy vet or waiting for someone to pick her up and take her, to see if she could get a heads up.. i too in that situation would look about while i was waiting and keeping an eye on the kittens to see what i could find out. RESEARCH can be vital especially if it's something you haven't seen before - the vet might need any bit of information or suggestion you can throw at them!!! what she did in my eyes is reasonable and the fact she had not replied until much later kind of shows she had already gone out to the vet which also indicates that she made this post while waiting to see if she could quickly find out anything about it.

additionally.. Every/any body else:
This is not an excuse to bash someone, the OP is probably distraught enough as it is!!! 
You don't know what she was doing, so try not to jump to conclusions!
Nobody is perfect and unfortunately SOMETIMES things don't go right nomatter how good a breeder you are, i think alot of you would know that first hand for yourselves already.

OP: next time, i don't know about this, so it's upto you to decide whether your queen would be okay with it or not, but would it be possible to have a vet that your queen trusts/sees frequently and is comfortable with to come and check on her and the kittens? (like literally a house call?)
O_O maybe you could even consider a little vetenary training?(i'm not talking about a degree or job or anything but a course so that if something happens you can respond atleast adequantly while you're waiting for help even if you don't know exactly whats wrong?(a bit like people taking first aid training..)
If i was going to breed i would definitely want to know all i could incase something happens.

Also maybe have someone ready and waiting to take over things at home incase you DO need to make an emergancy visit to the vets with your kittens, it's better to be prepared than be stuck in this kind of situation again where you're not really able to do anything for example; my mom would be ready and waiting to go and babysit my nefiew at my sisters house incase her kittens took a nasty turn while she rushed off to the vet. 
Maybe try to arrange something like that for next time? keep the person up to date on whats going on and keep checking they'll be available incase you need them.
Sometimes things can be so sudden and shocking that it takes a little while to sink in but every second counts, if it _had_ been something that could have been less horrific for the kittens(had they been older maybe even saved them?) had you been able to see a vet sooner, you'd feel a million times worse than you do right now(even though it might seem unimaginable.. you'd definitely feel even worse!!!)
All these things could and SHOULD have been said instead of people yelling or making complaints/judgements at you.. 
where does pointing the finger get anyone? how about you advise people instead of needlessly attacking, ay guys?!

my heart really goes out to you it's utterly soulcrushing  -hugs-
oh and by the way darling dont you DARE let certain people get to you, because i don't think it's as much a case that they care SO MUCH! it seems more that they are GLORIFIED by bullying people on forums using passion as an excuse!
Can even tell their comments will be unpleasant and UNHELPFUL without even taking them off of my ignore list.
You keep doing your best! and look after those kittens and your queen as well as you can!
nobody will be harder on you about this than yourself, and you know what? NOBODY ELSE HAS ANY RIGHT TO!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Hiya Lou Ive just been thinking about your kittens, were you hand feeding or topping them up by any chance? OR did you notice if the top of theur mouth was not formed? 

As if yes to any, milk can go into the lung and cause pnemoina (spelling) if its enhaled.

I cant work out he orange liquid though, must have been bile from the tummy?? or fluid on the lungs?


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