# Black cat, white roots?



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

Do all black cats have white hair roots? I was stroking Poppy and when I went against the way the hair lays, I noticed that she has white roots.

I never noticed it on a black cat before, but I never really paid much attention either.


----------



## lulubel (Apr 28, 2011)

Sam's roots are lighter than the ends of his coat, but not white. I'm not sure whether it's the individual hairs that change colour, or that his longer hairs are black, but he has a soft "undercoat" that's a medium brown colour. When you stroke him, his coat feels very glossy and silky, but if you go deep into his coat, it's quite fluffy underneath.


----------



## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Sounds like a black smoke to me. Chaucer has much paler roots, but looks solid black when he's lying still. It's quite a striking coat color, especially on a longer-haired cat


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Indeed a black smoke - it's the silver gene expressed in a non tabby. If you want more genetics stuff let me know otherwise I'll leave it at that.


----------



## missye87 (Apr 4, 2011)

spid said:


> Indeed a black smoke - it's the silver gene expressed in a non tabby. If you want more genetics stuff let me know otherwise I'll leave it at that.


Sorry to derail OP's thread, but if I send you a pic of Storm, would you be able to help me out? He is registered as a black smoke but I find I'm not sure I agree, more like a silver and black shaded!


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

missye87 said:


> Sorry to derail OP's thread, but if I send you a pic of Storm, would you be able to help me out? He is registered as a black smoke but I find I'm not sure I agree, more like a silver and black shaded!


You can try! As in I can try - I know the details but sometimes getting it right is difficult. But please do. I'll send you my email in pMs.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

missye87 said:


> Sorry to derail OP's thread, but if I send you a pic of Storm, would you be able to help me out? He is registered as a black smoke but I find I'm not sure I agree, more like a silver and black shaded!


Is he the kitten in your albums? If so he can't be a smoke cos he's tabby, smoke is the silver gene expressed in non tabbies. That one looks like a black silver tabby.

In the Shaded Silver, all of the hairs are tipped with color at about the point where the agouti band would normally begin. As in the Chinchilla (silver tipped), both the ticked and the solid hairs turn light-colored before the point where the agouti band would begin, so the tabby pattern is not visible. However in the Shaded Silver, the colored tips are long enough that the normal color is clearly visible, particularly along the head and spine.

In the Silver Tabby, the ticked hairs are tipped with color and then light-colored below the tip, but the solid hairs have normal coloration. The tabby pattern is actually enhanced by the greater contrast between the almost-white ticked hairs and the full color of the solid hairs.

So does he have normal stripes on the solid bit of his tabby?

EDIT: I've just looked at pictures of shadeds - they are all very light on top - that kitten is a black silver tabby with white.


----------



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

I would be interested in some of the genetic info. I'll try to keep up anyway lol.

I was looking at her fur a little more closely; it's white at the root, then there is a teeny bit of brown before it turns black. Her ghost markings look almost like a browny colour (when they show up in the sun). She is smoke coloured under her chin with black tabby markings and she has a patch of white fur (roughly the size of a £2 coin) on her belly in between her hind legs.

Her mum was a tortie; mostly grey/blue with bits of red and black. She also had a smokey coloured, long-haired brother with tabby markings and cream coloured spectacles around his eyes. He was gorgeous and I had originally picked him but then changed my mind because he was so shy (he never would've been happy in our often noisy and busy house).


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

PolkaDotty said:


> I would be interested in some of the genetic info. I'll try to keep up anyway lol.
> 
> I was looking at her fur a little more closely; it's white at the root, then there is a teeny bit of brown before it turns black. Her ghost markings look almost like a browny colour (when they show up in the sun). She is smoke coloured under her chin with black tabby markings and she has a patch of white fur (roughly the size of a £2 coin) on her belly in between her hind legs.
> 
> Her mum was a tortie; mostly grey/blue with bits of red and black. She also had a smokey coloured, long-haired brother with tabby markings and cream coloured spectacles around his eyes. He was gorgeous and I had originally picked him but then changed my mind because he was so shy (he never would've been happy in our often noisy and busy house).


All tabbies have 'spectacles' it part of the markings. Sounds like mum was a smoke tortie. Her fur sounds just right for a black smoke, white a the roots and then the brown is just the black beginning to come through.

Silver is a dominant gene so only one gene needs to be passed on for a cat to be silver, if it has the gene it is silver, bit like tabby. As it sounds like mum wasn't a tabby so Dad must have been. But as your girl isn't tabby then he only carried one tabby gene and one solid and passed on the solid gene to your girl. And from mums description it sounds like she passed on the silver.
Silver can be expressed either as silver, smoke, shaded or tipped. Smoke is silver in non tabby, the other all involve various lengths of the hair being affected, silver is the smallest amount near the route, then shaded more of the hair normally beyond the start of the tabby markings so the cat looks pale and barely shows tabby except along the back and on the head and tipped, where only the very tip of the hair is coloured and the cat looks almost white except it has a sheen on colour on top.

Hope that helps, ask if you want to know anything specifically.


----------



## missye87 (Apr 4, 2011)

spid said:


> Is he the kitten in your albums? If so he can't be a smoke cos he's tabby, smoke is the silver gene expressed in non tabbies. That one looks like a black silver tabby.
> 
> In the Shaded Silver, all of the hairs are tipped with color at about the point where the agouti band would normally begin. As in the Chinchilla (silver tipped), both the ticked and the solid hairs turn light-colored before the point where the agouti band would begin, so the tabby pattern is not visible. However in the Shaded Silver, the colored tips are long enough that the normal color is clearly visible, particularly along the head and spine.
> 
> ...


No that is Benji, he was a blue silver tabby with white when we picked him up, but his stripes seem darker now and look black in certain lighting, but his stripes are actually a more dark blue. I don't have any pictures of Storm in decent lighting so this Saturday when I'm around in daylight I'll take lots of pics including a close up of the fur which will, make you see why I think he is a shaded


----------



## babygirls (Aug 22, 2011)

spid said:


> All tabbies have 'spectacles' it part of the markings. Sounds like mum was a smoke tortie. Her fur sounds just right for a black smoke, white a the roots and then the brown is just the black beginning to come through
> 
> Oh i never knew that about the specs, Dottys got a lovely set of specs on make her look ever so intelligent


----------



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

spid said:


> All tabbies have 'spectacles' it part of the markings. Sounds like mum was a smoke tortie. Her fur sounds just right for a black smoke, white a the roots and then the brown is just the black beginning to come through.
> 
> Silver is a dominant gene so only one gene needs to be passed on for a cat to be silver, if it has the gene it is silver, bit like tabby. As it sounds like mum wasn't a tabby so Dad must have been. But as your girl isn't tabby then he only carried one tabby gene and one solid and passed on the solid gene to your girl. And from mums description it sounds like she passed on the silver.
> Silver can be expressed either as silver, smoke, shaded or tipped. Smoke is silver in non tabby, the other all involve various lengths of the hair being affected, silver is the smallest amount near the route, then shaded more of the hair normally beyond the start of the tabby markings so the cat looks pale and barely shows tabby except along the back and on the head and tipped, where only the very tip of the hair is coloured and the cat looks almost white except it has a sheen on colour on top.
> ...


Genetics kind of confuse me (doesn't take much eh? lol). So does the fact that she has ghost markings mean that the tabby gene was not completely surpressed?


----------



## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

Sorry to hijack the thread, just thought i'd show you a piccy of my Black Smoke Selkirk Rex boy, just because  ........ I find it mad how his coat is lol


----------



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

He's a handsome boy! :001_tt1:


----------



## Guest (Sep 28, 2011)

Doolally said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread, just thought i'd show you a piccy of my Black Smoke Selkirk Rex boy, just because  ........ I find it mad how his coat is lol


He is lovely but it also looks like he's a white cat that has fallen down a sooty chimney


----------



## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> He is lovely but it also looks like he's a white cat that has fallen down a sooty chimney


Teeheee He makes me feel a bit better about my own grey roots


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

PolkaDotty said:


> Genetics kind of confuse me (doesn't take much eh? lol). So does the fact that she has ghost markings mean that the tabby gene was not completely surpressed?


No - the tabby gene cannot actually be suppressed - you are either tabby or you're not - however . . and this is the hard part - underneath all cats are tabby anyway (in a way) and the tabby gene allows the expression of the tabby. But all cats can have ghost markings BUT solid cats DON'T carry ANY tabby genes at all - if they did they would BE tabby and it would be obvious. Red colouring is a little different though as red can't mask tabby markings, hence you can see tortie cats with tabby markings on their red bits even though they aren't tabby. For Birman red some of them have to be tested to find out if they are tabby or solid as it isn't always obvious from parentage.

Think of it this way - all cats have ghost tabby markings but most colours mask this (except red/ cream) - in a lot of kittens the ghost markings are seen but they fade as they get older. The tabby gene strengthens these ghost markings so they are very apparent, and as the tabby gene is dominant it cannot be suppressed. The tabby gene is actually suppressing the solid gene in the case of tabbies with one tabby and one solid gene. All tabbies should have white-ish spectacles, a white-ish butterfly under the nose and onto the chin, and normally brick coloured nose leather. Solid nose leather is normally the same colour as the cat. It is confusing.

Also there are three types of tabby - some are more dominant that others - the classic tabby pattern (swirls) is the rarest, then spotted, then mackerel.

try this link for a far better explanation than I can give - but it gets a little technical. Cat coat genetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah, the link does get technical.

I _think_ I understand what you're saying though.

So, Poppy doesn't express tabby markings because she doesn't carry a tabby gene and her solid colour masks the ghost markings. Is that right? But then how come I can see what looks like tabby marking on the smoke coloured part under her chin (and up onto her cheeks a little bit)? Is it because those natural markings aren't being masked as much?


----------



## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, I've noticied three different layers of colours with my classic tabby. Ticking? On the swirls the outermost one is black, the next brown and then a gingery colour. Same with his sister who is a torbie.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

PolkaDotty said:


> Yeah, the link does get technical.
> 
> I _think_ I understand what you're saying though.
> 
> So, Poppy doesn't express tabby markings because she doesn't carry a tabby gene and her solid colour masks the ghost markings. Is that right? But then how come I can see what looks like tabby marking on the smoke coloured part under her chin (and up onto her cheeks a little bit)? Is it because those natural markings aren't being masked as much?


Yep, you are right - she doesn't carry tabby (though carry is the wrong word as carrying a gene means you have it but it isn't expressed because it is recessive) - so she doesn't have a tabby gene and her solid colour masks the ghosts markings, you are probably right about the silver not masking the ghost markings as much - but I'm afraid here my knowledge fails and I get confused my self (I am only a bear of very little brain). How old is she? If she is young they may still fade.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Ianthi said:


> Yes, I've noticied three different layers of colours with my classic tabby. Ticking? On the swirls the outermost one is black, the next brown and then a gingery colour. Same with his sister who is a torbie.


all agouti (tabby hairs) - are layered in colours - ticking is different and doesn't express itself in any pattern - more a mottling across the coat. Try this link - half way down is a picture of the different banding on hair compared to the tabby pattern, It explains in pictures what would take pages for me to explain in writing. The Genetics of Shaded Silver American Shorthairs


----------



## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

That link was great! I get it now.

Thank you for trying to explain it!


----------



## missye87 (Apr 4, 2011)

Doolally said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread, just thought i'd show you a piccy of my Black Smoke Selkirk Rex boy, just because  ........ I find it mad how his coat is lol


You see Storm isn't that dark, he is black along his spine all the way to the tip of his tail and it fades down his sides into silver. He has a black smudge down his face but not a full black face either.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

missye87 said:


> You see Storm isn't that dark, he is black along his spine all the way to the tip of his tail and it fades down his sides into silver. He has a black smudge down his face but not a full black face either.


From what you say then, yes sounds shaded not smoke.


----------



## missye87 (Apr 4, 2011)

spid said:


> From what you say then, yes sounds shaded not smoke.


Will get you some pics of his handsomeness!


----------



## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

missye87 said:


> Will get you some pics of his handsomeness!


yes pleasse!!


----------

