# RO water



## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

Hi guys. 
Still having issues with high nitrates. Tap water is 20-40ppm, tank is 40-80ppm. Is it worth me starting to do water changes with RO? 
I read this article Fishkeeping - Using RO Water in Freshwater Tropical Aquaria - Tropical Articles - Articles and the general feeling I got was not to start using it. 
My local fish store sells it at 10p a litre, so not going to break the bank for my 45L tank's weekly changes. But still, once I start that's it. 
Does anyone use RO because of bad tap water?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear you're still having problems 

I have considered using 50/50 RO and tap in the past due to my high tap nitrates (40-50), but decided against it due to the ongoing financial commitment and the hassle of dragging it back from the LFS each time!

I still don't think 40-80 nitrates should be an issue for your fish (though the source of all those extra nitrates is still a mystery), but do your fish still seem to be having problems?

Just a thought - I can't remember whether you have sand or gravel. If gravel, could there be a load of fish waste trapped in between it? If sand, do you regularly stir it up before water changes to release any trapped gases, or do you have MTS to do it for you? Or do you maybe have a specialist plant substrate that could be releasing nitrate into the water?


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Do you have live plants? They can help use up excess nitrate. I'm afraid I don't know about RO, I've never had to use it myself.


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## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

I have 3 live plants (cabomba, ludwigia and dracena). The substrate is a regular basic gravel, which gets a weekly siphon. I have just noticed one of my platy's seems a little 'bent' or hunched. The lateral line is slightly off-straight. Bit of research says this could be a vitamin issue so I've got some bloodworm and hoping a change in diet will help her.
The fish are fine in general and maybe I shouldn't worry so much about the nitrates, but I'm starting to get brown algae


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

According to "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad, the best nitrAte "eaters" are Echinodorus rananculoides, Littorella uniflora, Lobelia dortmanna and Luronium natans. Others plants prefer amonium and nitrites and only if there are no HN3 or NO2 in water they go for nitrates. 
Plants compete directly with beneficial bacteria in an average fish tank and help to keep balance.

Again according to D. Walstad, land plants prefer nitrAtes to other nitrogen compounds. If this is true why don't you try this kind of a solution: 



There are loads of videos if on YT. IMO a great idea and cheap/easy.

I, myself, was doing some research about RO but it looks to complicated. If somebody keeps discus fish in a huge aquarium it makes sense as they are very sensitive but for a couple of small tropical fish I prefer to keep a densely planted tank.


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## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

Hi Dragonlady - thanks for that info, I will keep an eye out for those plants, both in the shops and online. I have seen that video but I have a black lid and not sure how floating plants would work. 

The Juwel nitrate removal sponges......apparently they have a 'tablet' in the middle. Without changing sponges for bacteria reasons, could I extract the tablet and place it in my filter? Has anyone used these?

Coming to the conclusion that RO water isn't the way to go for me just yet.


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

I've got 25ppm NO3 in my tap water. It's not a great water quality but it could be worse in some regions.
As for Juwel aquarium, the black top cover is maybe not perfect for floating plants but plants still grow. In my Juwel Rekord 60 I keep two floating species: frogbit and water lettuce (Pistia Stratiotes). 
In the summer, I'll keep the cover open at nights, in winter I open only the feeding whole to improve ventilation.

Additionally, I put two pothos plants in the small hole behind the filter. After two months, their roots are impressive.

My strategy is to keep as many water plants as possible so that they use ammonia and nitrite first. In such a way, there is no much additional nitrate as end product of the nitrogen cycle. It works quite good so far.


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## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

Just done a massive gravel siphon under all ornaments and 25% water change. Plus a squeeze of both filter sponges and a clean of all ornaments. 
These are the two nitrate tests I've just done. The left is the tank water (after water change), and the right is tap water. To me there's no difference. Surely half and half RO will drop my tap nitrates? Is this even safe to drink??


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

aaa, forgot the green sponge part. Yes, there is a tablet inside.
The problem with the sponge is that it takes quite a lot of space in the filter and if you change it you remove more than 1/3 of beneficial bacteria what can cause water issues.
Not sure what such a sponge costs but I suppose it's not cheap. 

I've never used the green sponge and prefer water changes instead. And plants.


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

Aqualung said:


> Just done a massive gravel siphon under all ornaments and 25% water change. Plus a squeeze of both filter sponges and a clean of all ornaments.
> These are the two nitrate tests I've just done. The left is the tank water (after water change), and the right is tap water. To me there's no difference. Surely half and half RO will drop my tap nitrates? Is this even safe to drink??


For me, it looks the same.
Well, 40ppm is really not bad, no reason to panic.

What fish do you keep? What kind of issues do you have that you are thinking about RO? Maybe nitrates are not the cause of your problems?

RO is not safe for drinking as it doesn't have any minerals. People using only RO water have to add special salts or they mix with tap water.

Gosh, the aquatic industry drives us crazy. Green sponges, RO, tests...
Last week, I watched YT video about fishkeeping 20 years ago. Lots was easier and it was a hobby. Now everybody tries to complete A-levels in chemistry.
I used tests myself but after the initial stress I slowly calmed down and check regularly only water temperature.


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## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

Yeah I probably need to relax a bit and just accept I've got high(ish) nitrates, keep doing weekly water changes and keep scraping algae! My fish seem mostly fine. I will try to increase plants although not much room. Thanks for your help. 

(Just had a thought, if my tap and tank are reading the same - maybe there's no nitrate issue at all??)


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

Are you worried only about algae? I thought you have health issues

Here a short guide to algae: James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide
If you have the brownish one which covers plants and glass like a brow powder don't worry - it's normal in newly established tanks.

Again, plants compete for nutrients with algae. The more plants, the better.
If you have plants and algae it means that you've got to many nutrients in water or use to many fertilizers, especially with iron. High nitrates are not the only the problem.

How many hours do you keep lights on? Around 8h is optimal if you have algae. 
Diana Walsted suggest a siesta time in the afternoon - about 4h break without lights. In the nature, it's cloudy in the afternoons and this is the explanation for her siesta time in lighting.
This siesta time breaks the photosynthesis cycle in algae, however is fine for plants. In my tank, I've got 4 hours siesta and plants grow fine.

Snails do really a nice cleaning job. If you go to eBay you can buy even red nerites. I've got 3 nerites in my 64l.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds like your tap water is much the same as mine. The maximum legal 'safe' level for tap water is 50. Mine reads 40+ on the API test.

If your tap water is that high, no amount of water changes will bring it down, and the fish you have really won't care anyway. So I'd stop worrying, keep your expenses down, and just make sure you syphon well at each water change (including under ornaments, as you have done).

On a side note, I'm experimenting in my temperate tank to see how low I can get the nitrates to drop using no artificial means, just a load of nitrate-eating plants. I'd love to put a couple of hillstream loaches in there, but they are one of the species that _are_ sensitive to nitrate. So I'll keep you updated!


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## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

NaomiM said:


> On a side note, I'm experimenting in my temperate tank to see how low I can get the nitrates to drop using no artificial means, just a load of nitrate-eating plants. I'd love to put a couple of hillstream loaches in there, but they are one of the species that _are_ sensitive to nitrate. So I'll keep you updated!


Hi Naomi,

any suggestions for good nitrate-eating plants? There are not many as most "lazy bones" go for ammonia and nitrites first, if it's true. Water plants use nitrates only if there is no ammonia and nitrites in water, according to Diana Walsted.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi Dragonlady,

I think you probably know more about it than me, given your earlier posting! I haven't read any books about it, just asked advice on various forums and from Dave at aquariumgardens.co.uk. I'm a little limited because of the lower temps I'm running at, so some of the nitrate-munching options might not do so well in my tank.

Dave recommended hydrocotyle leucocephala, which is a great plant, so I've put a load of that in, along with other fast growers such as vallis (the general advice I was given is that fast growers will naturally use more nitrate, but I guess many will still use ammonia/nitrite first!) And lots of people, like you, recommended floating plants - I've had no luck in the past with either frogbit or salvinia in my other tank, so thought I'd try some practically-indestructable duckweed, which is supposed to be a fantastic nitrate muncher, and it seems to be thriving! I also got a couple of what looks like water lettuce thrown in with it, which seems to be doing OK too.

As yet I haven't noticed a massive difference in the nitrate levels, but I plan to let the plants grow quite densely, so I'll test again once they've grown a bit more and keep you updated! I'm doubtful though whether I'll be able to get the levels low enough for hillstreams  which is a shame as I'd really like some! Flippin' rubbish water we have around the Southampton area


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## Aqualung (Aug 20, 2014)

Looks like I've got a lot of plants to add to my shopping list then! If I was to go for an easy to grow, easy to find, plant from Dragonladys suggestions last page - which is best...both floating and non floating??
The tank is generally in low light in the daytime. When it gets dark I probably switch the tank lights on for about 4-5 hours. But it is quite dark and dingy in the day when no one is in. 
The algae is brown and a bit slimy.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Dragonlady said:


> any suggestions for good nitrate-eating plants? There are not many as most "lazy bones" go for ammonia and nitrites first, if it's true. Water plants use nitrates only if there is no ammonia and nitrites in water, according to Diana Walsted.


Surely if the tank is cycled, there shouldn't be any ammonia or nitrites anyway though? Not that I know much about it, I've only just started properly trying to grow plants in my tank! My tank is so big though, I don't have enough plants yet for them to have any effect on my nitrates regardless (and the goldfish keep pulling them up and ripping the leaves!)


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

From what I understand from what Dragonlady said, the plants (along with the filter bacteria) will be using the ammonia and nitrites from the fish waste, so yes, there won't be any in the tank, but only because the plants (and bacteria) are using it as soon as it's produced, if that makes sense  so the palnts are part of the cycle. And presumably the plants will then go on to use up the nitrAte to fill up their nutritional requirements.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Aqualung said:


> Looks like I've got a lot of plants to add to my shopping list then! If I was to go for an easy to grow, easy to find, plant from Dragonladys suggestions last page - which is best...both floating and non floating??
> The tank is generally in low light in the daytime. When it gets dark I probably switch the tank lights on for about 4-5 hours. But it is quite dark and dingy in the day when no one is in.
> The algae is brown and a bit slimy.


Floating plants are a bit of a pain but definitely good for nitrate reduction, so it's up to you really - personally I'd probably go for both. You may need to increase your lighting period, as floating plants will block out some of the light for the plants underneath. And I've been told that not enough light can actually make algae worse, as well as too much light - it's all about finding the right balance between nutrients and light, which is pretty much trial and error (I certainly haven't sorted it yet in my newer tank, as I still have to scrub the glass at every water change!)


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