# Ok here we go...... Bonding the four has started....



## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Well I have a dog crate, have neutralised a litter tray, hay rack and water bottle. I actually felt sick this morning with nerves.

Ok so I bathed them all, i let them mix in my little shower room, saffy and joey showed a little aggitation with the other two being there with them to start with but i just stroked them.

They have now moved into the dog crate once they were a little more settled, ive cleaned the kitchen with them next to me and have now moved the crate into the lounge. I think the bath was def a good idea, it does help neautralise them all and to encouage grooming, def a distraction on intorduction.

So far so good, i know this is very very early days, we have the rest of the weekend to get through but im sooooo pleased its started so well, not at all what i was expecting, even saffy is being good!

I do feel abit weird about putting them in such a small space compared with what they are used to but i know being a foursome will make it so much easier and they will all have more space if they can live together.

Here are my four wet bunnies in their dog crate....


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Aaw bless - I love the cat looking on at the soggy furballs

I fostered a fourth bunny last week and am going to start the bonding process this weekend too. At the moment I have divided the big run in two with wire and the bunnies have sniffed each other through the wire. 

I never thought of bathing them. 

Good luck Crofty.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Best of luck Crofty.

Looks like its going reasonably well so far.


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## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

Good news so far then, they all look very happy at the moment, even though they all look funny and wet!! lol


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

The does are getting on really well they are snuggled up together and body language is perfect  Joey is still a little bit fiesty towards Dreamer but no dramas yet. I was expecting Saffy to be the problem!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

When do you know when its 100% successful?

I mean, at some point you will leave them together unsupervised, so how do you make the decision that the time is right?


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

Awwww so glad to hear its going well so far my Tinks has made me proud look at her so friendly I love her!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> When do you know when its 100% successful?
> 
> I mean, at some point you will leave them together unsupervised, so how do you make the decision that the time is right?


Well they will stay in the crate today and tonight, they will be in my bedroom with me tonight together as long as there is no fighting today, they have been all together since 7am Im watching their body language, at the minute saffy and tinks are very relaxed stretching out together.

If there are no problems by tomorrow i will start to give them slightly more space, im watching for the being relaxed and the ulitmate bonding sign of them grooming eachother. Tomorrow i will neutralise the garage and if its all going well will supervise them in there for the evening. It really does depend on them and how they are acting together, if im in any doubt i will neutralise the garage but makesure they have bars between them so i dont undo what ive started.

Watch this space!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> Well they will stay in the crate today and tonight, they will be in my bedroom with me tonight together as long as there is no fighting today, they have been all together since 7am Im watching their body language, at the minute saffy and tinks are very relaxed stretching out together.
> 
> If there are no problems by tomorrow i will start to give them slightly more space, im watching for the being relaxed and the ulitmate bonding sign of them grooming eachother. Tomorrow i will neutralise the garage and if its all going well will supervise them in there for the evening. It really does depend on them and how they are acting together, if im in any doubt i will neutralise the garage but makesure they have bars between them so i dont undo what ive started.
> 
> Watch this space!


Ive been extremely lucky with bonding in the past, but i know problems can and do happen. My current pair took about 5 days, but i do still seperate them at night, but thats mostly due to different dietry needs. They have wire between them, and are 100% fine with eachother.

Im not even sure my old Dwarf lop Dougal even realised he had a new wife at one point, he was a bit dopey.

Hope it continues to go well.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> Ive been extremely lucky with bonding in the past, but i know problems can and do happen. My current pair took about 5 days, but i do still seperate them at night, but thats mostly due to different dietry needs. They have wire between them, and are 100% fine with eachother.
> 
> Im not even sure my old Dwarf lop Dougal even realised he had a new wife at one point, he was a bit dopey.
> 
> Hope it continues to go well.


Oh i bonded both my pairs with no problem at all, tinks and dreamer were grooming eachother within 3 hours of being introduced, it really was love and first sight with them. Bonding four is so complicated, theres the whole being jealous of eachothers partners and the mixing of does/does and bucks/bucks. Also if a fight breaks out trying to seperate four is not as easy as grabbing two!! Sometimes a more timid bun can be left out abit in the group too or find it too stressful.

Thats why ive put this off for so long, alot of people try and end up having to split there four. If it makes any of them unhappy i will not hesitate to seperate them.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

eeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Well we have had a few shoves, they've a had a 15min run round the lounge no probs, back in cage now as dreamer was getting a little excited. Tinkerbell has humped joey and dreamers head :shock: then humped saffy who just ignored her which im still in shock about i was paused ready to intervene.... but no fight she jumped off her a sprawled out! Dreamer has been grooming saffy and has just groomed joeys head too!!!!!!  i nearly cried, i had tears in my eyes


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> eeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
> 
> Well we have had a few shoves, they've a had a 15min run round the lounge no probs, back in cage now as dreamer was getting a little excited. Tinkerbell has humped joey and dreamers head :shock: then humped saffy who just ignored her which im still in shock about i was paused ready to intervene.... but no fight she jumped off her a sprawled out! Dreamer has been grooming saffy and has just groomed joeys head too!!!!!!  i nearly cried, i had tears in my eyes


Awwwwwwwwwwwww bless them all! Thats great news! Im so confused about who was bonded with who before now lol and awww little Tinks humping the world!

Hope it continues to go well keep us updated!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

they are all very cute, i hope al goes well,


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Here you go 

Dinner time


























































































Saffy and Tinks did have a little scuffle and had to spray saffy because she tends to bite :? so she has abit of a wet head again and they're shut back in the crate but is sat back with tinks in the litter tray quite happy.

Oh Crystal smile for the camera....









shes so cheeky!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

What fantastic pics! Im so pleased for you that its going so well.


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

well done hun im really pleased it worked out so far!! they look very content together


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## mimi g (Mar 10, 2009)

looks to be going well they all look so nice in the pics together! 1 for the photoframe... x


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Ive had an horrendous night, the boys have settled really well, theyve been grooming and snuggling up together and have been lovely.... BUT the girls well it all kicked of, i have to spray them a couple of times, it is Tinks thats actually starting the fights, she even started on poor Dreamer when he was minding his own business shes being a right little cow at the moment with a massive attitude, the boys are actually being very tolerant of her but saffy has a go back and they eventually had a huge fight at 2am and i seperated them. No blood but lots of fur.

I put them in the kitchen but the little ones stayed in the cage, i had to sit with them a while to make sure dreamer was ok vecause tinks was taking it all out on him. I fell asleep and one point and dreamer woke me up, everytime theres abit of shoving looking like heading for a fight he thumps away its so sweet "oh mum, mum, MUM their gonna fight WAKE UP!!

Females are soooo much trouble Knew it was too good to be true, i just dont understand how they were quite happy snuggled up together yesturday and it was the boys being a little fiesty and now they have swapped 

Desperately trying to hold my nerve but i was in tears last night. 

They are all back in the crate now, saffy one end tinks the other both sulking, the boys are in the middle quite happy.

Think i might bath them again to get some grooming going and clean the crate out.... they are going to be very clean bunnies :biggrin5:


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

fantastic pictures, love your cats to, sorry it didnt go to well last night, i hope it works out in the end, keep us posted,xxxx


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Well they've had a very quick shower and rub down, things have settled, stinks is sat next to saffy who is asleep and the boys are busy grooming in the litter tray, think they are getting quite goo mates! Tinkerbell was the most laid back one and the one i worried about possibly being bullied cant believe shes the one thats caused the most trouble 

Im really pleased with Joey and Dreamer they are being such good boys, especially dreamer who has groomed everyone and got nothing in return!! He keeps sticking his nose under anyone he's near and getting ignored bless him.


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

awwww sorry about the rough night you had and my little Tinks is just trying to show them all shes the boss bless her! hope she calms down though and the bonding does go well!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Oh god im finding this really stressful, saffy is still refusing to be part of the group Joey and Dreamer keep coming over to her to say hello and she went for dreamer this morning. Tinks is also still being fiesty although seems to have excepted Joey. Does are sooo much trouble Im feeling very deflated


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

crofty said:


> Oh god im finding this really stressful, saffy is still refusing to be part of the group Joey and Dreamer keep coming over to her to say hello and she went for dreamer this morning. Tinks is also still being fiesty although seems to have excepted Joey. Does are sooo much trouble Im feeling very deflated


awwwww i can only imagine how hard it must be, dont give up you have done brilliantly so far.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

frags said:


> awwwww i can only imagine how hard it must be, dont give up you have done brilliantly so far.


Thanks hun

Its just so hard when you have to work and do everything else!! I have taken tomorrow off and have put them together again tonight, little scuffle with the girls quickly diffused by a spray of water!! They are sat together now grooming themselves, i bought them dandelion sticks which they have been sharing so i think thats a good sign? Seems neither of them is backing down, they're both so stroppy!! Im hoping they will eventually decide who's boss :sad:


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## rebenda (Jan 1, 2009)

Hows it gone today with them? im sure theyl decide whos boss soon enough the guys sound quite laid back about it allgood luck with it hun


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

rebenda said:


> Hows it gone today with them? im sure theyl decide whos boss soon enough the guys sound quite laid back about it allgood luck with it hun


Well today saffy has nipped dreamers bum (he was minding his own business bless him) and shes gone for tinks but i shouted at her so she stopped. I took tinks and saffy for a car ride no problems, they're just ignoring eachother at the minute 

Think i might take them for another ride in abit, the boys are fine, grooming eachother quite happy x


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> Well today saffy has nipped dreamers bum (he was minding his own business bless him) and shes gone for tinks but i shouted at her so she stopped. I took tinks and saffy for a car ride no problems, they're just ignoring eachother at the minute
> 
> Think i might take them for another ride in abit, the boys are fine, grooming eachother quite happy x


You have the patience of a saint Crofty I really really hope they ease up on you and all just love each other to bits!


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## catty (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm going to be doing the same thing but am also v stressed about it as my two have started fur pulling just because they can smell the new bunny in my hallway. They've got on so well since being bonded and I don't want to risk breaking them up but it would be so much easier if they could all live together (I'm getting another female to pair with the new bunny soon). I don't understand why they've started fighting just because they can smell another bunny in the house. I'll be really interested to see how this works out for you and I'm glad to see it's not just me who gets nuclear stress levels from bonding bunnies! It's horrible!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

catty said:


> I'm going to be doing the same thing but am also v stressed about it as my two have started fur pulling just because they can smell the new bunny in my hallway. They've got on so well since being bonded and I don't want to risk breaking them up but it would be so much easier if they could all live together (I'm getting another female to pair with the new bunny soon). I don't understand why they've started fighting just because they can smell another bunny in the house. I'll be really interested to see how this works out for you and I'm glad to see it's not just me who gets nuclear stress levels from bonding bunnies! It's horrible!


Its referred aggression, they see your house as their territory, Joey and saffy had a few scuffles when i got dreamer and tinks in next to them. If it were me id bath them so they smell the same and then put them next to eachother but not so they can get at eachother to start with in a neutral territory and see what they are like then. But if you are going to get a new bunny wait until their bond is established, if you are getting a rescue alot will bond them for you so they are going somewhere completely neutral. Things should settle down.


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## catty (Feb 6, 2009)

Thank you, that's really helpful. I've bought an outdoor hutch and run to start the new two off in so that should stop the scuffling until they are bonded and I can try to put them all together. I'm still in Germany for the moment so I might wait until the end of the year when we're back at home and get some help.
I hope it works for you, they're so gorgeous. I think I saw Saffy in Rabbiting on?


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

I would never have thought that bonding rabbits could be so tough... well my idea of getting another pair somewhere down the line seems to have gone further down the line lol!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

catty said:


> Thank you, that's really helpful. I've bought an outdoor hutch and run to start the new two off in so that should stop the scuffling until they are bonded and I can try to put them all together. I'm still in Germany for the moment so I might wait until the end of the year when we're back at home and get some help.
> I hope it works for you, they're so gorgeous. I think I saw Saffy in Rabbiting on?


Really? If she is i dont know anything about it! Sounds like a sensible idea


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

umber said:


> I would never have thought that bonding rabbits could be so tough... well my idea of getting another pair somewhere down the line seems to have gone further down the line lol!


yeh you have to be prepared to have two seperate pairs, bonding four is a bonus that im still praying for!!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Hey guys!! 

Well when i got in from work yesturday i took all four bunnies in the smaller dog crate for a 20 min drive, then put them in the big dog crate in the lounge..... there has been no scuffles at all, and for the first time i had the confidence to keep them together overnight again, they went all night with no fighting as you may remember the first night they had me up at 2am with the girls having a real set to. BUT the girls are opposite ends of the cage and the they are mostly staying in their pairs although joey and dreamer have moved around abit. The girls have sniffed with no scuffle or shoving and seem to have a mutual agreement not to fight but they are far from friends still at the moment.

The garage although i have neutralised it they seem to be territorial still going to have to clean it out again, but at least if i have them calmly in the cage all weekend can give the garage a good air out and rest.

What do you think?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

crofty said:


> Hey guys!!
> 
> Well when i got in from work yesturday i took all four bunnies in the smaller dog crate for a 20 min drive, then put them in the big dog crate in the lounge..... there has been no scuffles at all, and for the first time i had the confidence to keep them together overnight again, they went all night with no fighting as you may remember the first night they had me up at 2am with the girls having a real set to. BUT the girls are opposite ends of the cage and the they are mostly staying in their pairs although joey and dreamer have moved around abit. The girls have sniffed with no scuffle or shoving and seem to have a mutual agreement not to fight but they are far from friends still at the moment.
> 
> ...


I tried to give you some rep but I have already given you some recently, I'm supposed to spread it around, I can only give reps where its deserved so sorry about that.

You have done an absolutely sterling job, that's pure dedication, I will have to admit I didn't realise exactly what was involved in bonding rabbits, they always seem quite laid back type pets to me. Little devils eh :laugh:

It has certainly put me off encouraging my daughter to get another rabbit, but that's a good thing. Unless you have the time and patience its not fair to the rabbits. :thumbsup:


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

sskmick said:


> I tried to give you some rep but I have already given you some recently, I'm supposed to spread it around, I can only give reps where its deserved so sorry about that.
> 
> You have done an absolutely sterling job, that's pure dedication, I will have to admit I didn't realise exactly what was involved in bonding rabbits, they always seem quite laid back type pets to me. Little devils eh :laugh:
> 
> It has certainly put me off encouraging my daughter to get another rabbit, but that's a good thing. Unless you have the time and patience its not fair to the rabbits. :thumbsup:


Bonding pairs is much easier i had no problems with either of my pairs, also if you take your bun to a rescue to pick a partner you can let the bun pick, joey did have a couple of does that just terrified him and werent suitable when i was finding him a lady friend. Its a good idea to get to know your bun wait until he's neutered like i did with joey then you have a fair idea what kind of other personality he'd get on with.

When it gets to four its very complicated, im exhausted!!! Its been a week since i started, my pairs were bonded after one day!!

Thankyou for the rep (i still dont understand it really lol)


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

This is the buns at the moment, saffy is flopped at the back and the other three are flopped together at the front. Tinkerbell has actually groomed joey for the first time!!! Shortly after this pic, tinks went over to saffy and flopped in front of her head to head but couldnt relax so moved after a few mins.

The tiolet rool is for them to move around, they like throwing it.... still neutralising all their toys!!!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Well Im feeling much more positive now, they have still not had to be seperated, tinks even half heartly licked saffys ear saffy has chased dreamer this monring but no biting or lunging. They seem to be establishing a peking order now, saffy was always going to be the boss. tinks has flopped head to head with saffy again and they are all sharing food in the crate just fine. 

I will keep them in the crate definetely for the next few days.... not sure when i will have th confidence to put them back in the garage. Going to clean it out again tomorrow after work in preparation, all old toys are outside. Im abit unsure of the next step to be honest when it comes to it.


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

Crofty I think you deserve a medal for the time, love and effort you always have put into your buns! Really I do admire you! Well Done!


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## jaxb05 (Apr 12, 2009)

Crofty,
My heart goes out to you. You are trying so hard and I can completely understand why you feel so stressed and worried. I hope it works out for you in the end. I have to tell you that I am in love with Dreamer. He is absolutely gorgeous. Which rabbits are new? I have been in hospital over three weeks and seem to have missed a lot of what is going on. Good luck and I hope that they all become friends soon.

Love, 
Jacqui


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

jaxb05 said:


> Crofty,
> My heart goes out to you. You are trying so hard and I can completely understand why you feel so stressed and worried. I hope it works out for you in the end. I have to tell you that I am in love with Dreamer. He is absolutely gorgeous. Which rabbits are new? I have been in hospital over three weeks and seem to have missed a lot of what is going on. Good luck and I hope that they all become friends soon.
> 
> Love,
> Jacqui


Yeh i see, how are you now? Dreamer is abit of a charmer it has to be said, he's such a little character, he's gone from a shaking, terrified little rescue constantly hiding to being first to ask for a nose rub and adoers being tickled just behind his ears 

None of them are new, i had them all before well ive had dreamer and tinks since august last year. Ive kept them as seperate pairs, i will put them back as pairs if this really doesnt work but am hoping i can keep them together, its looking more positive now.

Im feeling very poorly today so dont feel so silly sat indoors with them instead of out and about.

Lara x


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

umber said:


> Crofty I think you deserve a medal for the time, love and effort you always have put into your buns! Really I do admire you! Well Done!


aww thankyou umber, i would do anything for my animals makes me a little too passionate about things sometimes! Im feeling very low and you've really cheered me up with such a lovely comment xx


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## catty (Feb 6, 2009)

crofty said:


> Really? If she is i dont know anything about it! Sounds like a sensible idea


Sorry, I was being stupid thinking it was Saffy in the Rabbiting On magazine. They were a pair that looked just like yours but the white one was called Miffy. I wait with much interest for the outcome of your bonding! I get number 4 rescue rabbit on Friday.


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