# Do you think this would help? (pets4homes & other selling sites?)



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Just been having a nose around what selling in my area and once again this lady is selling kittens (AGAIN) at 5 to 6 weeks old, she says she has snowshoe/ragdoll/mainecoon/british crosses and the dad is the local tom cat (brilliant!)

So what I thought was maybe pets4homes could do what this other site does is say something like kittens cant go to new homes until 8 weeks? 

Mainly aimed at people like the women above, and if people stop spending £100/200 on a 5 week old kitten maybe she will stop letting her kittens outside to become pregnant when her last litter was literally a couple of months ago as I emailed her as the kittens she was selling then were 4half week old, she laughed when I said 12weeks to go to new homes.

Think it would be any use? :confused1::confused1:


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

I think it's an excellent idea. Do you think pets4homes would go for that? we could start a petition here if not  
'get rid of backyard breeders' petition!!


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Where would the petition be sent to?

I'm sure most people on here would be willing to be part of it


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

p.s.

dougal22 your cats are gorgeous! Especially the red one.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I for one would support anything/sign anything that helps to stop the BYB 's from ruining the lives of their queens /studs/kittens& the misguided who buy them


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

alisondalziel said:


> Where would the petition be sent to)


to pets4homes? just to show the support behind the request? it was just a random thought. i have lots of those!!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

alisondalziel said:


> p.s.
> 
> dougal22 your cats are gorgeous! Especially the red one.


Thank you  The red tabby boy is the newest addition to my 'family'


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

I will support you, I hate Byb and cant stand kittens being sold so young, kittens should be cared for until they are at least 12 weeks, I keep mine until they are 13 weeks and love every minute with them.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Heheehehe, its unlikely I know, but just incase you havent all noticed already, I am a massive advocate of getting the message across that kittens should never be rehomed under 8 weeks and closer to the 12 weeks is optimal. So I am all for anything that reinforces that message!

But. Maybe I am totally wrong here. I thought that someone told me that Pets4Homes was owned and run by the same people who own PetForums.

Am I the only one seeing the possible conflict of interests here?

IF both sites have the same owners, surely we wouldnt be allowed to petition on this site against a sister site ???

Andcan I also just add something else I have said umpteen times in the past. While I think any step in this direction is a good thing, so well done Taylorbaby for broaching it :thumbup:. I do wonder ultimately how effective it would be. Say 1 or 2 websites agreed to stop carrying adds for kittens under 8 weeks old without wishing to be a glass-half-empty type, I am quite sure a new website will spring up tomorrow to fill the gap in the market. I think the best way ultimately of tackling this problem in the long term is not to appeal to the good nature of webmasters or BYBs. But to educate the kitten-buying public. Well meaning but misguided people have to realize that when they saved that one little poorly 6 week old kitten from the clutches of the dirty greedy BYB that they are perpetrating a cruel and immoral trade.

When I first uttered words like those on the petforum, I got lynched I am delighted to say that over the months the lynching have got less frequent and I even seem to get a certain amount of support at times (when challenging the people who buy 6 week old kittens) and . Well I think ultimately this is the way forward. Everything is supply and demand. As long as misguided people feel they have to save that wee sad kitten some webmaster somewhere will create a website for the BYBs, and the BYBs will churn out litter after litter after litter.

I think as cat lovers on an internet forum we would have more success trying to curb the demand for these kittens. If we removed (slowed, made a dent in) the demand  the BYBs would cease to churn out litter after litter of these kittens. And one way to stop that demand is to educate people that they have to stop buying these kittens.

Anywayyyyy, its not an either or thing. both things can work perfectly well side by side (asking websites to stop running adds for kittens under 8 weeks of age, and educating people that buy these kittens that they are a major part of the problem). So if my signing a petition to P4H helps. Count me in. I just hope we dont all get banned, lol. (joke!! Im sure we wont).


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

Tje, isn't that the point, though?

If the people who own P4H own this site too, then surely they can't possibly be advocating against responsible pet ownership. Craigslist (hardly a paragon of good pet ownership, sigh) allows you to flag adverts for kittens under 8 weeks old; surely P4H could implement something similar?

If signing a petition would convince them to implement a policy then count me in, but I live in Denmark now, so I'm not sure how useful I would be.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Atlantys.... what I think is, I fear, pretty irrelevant

I have it on very good authority that members have been banned in the past for similar actions where p4homes ads were concerned. I just can't say too much as all of what I learned was told to me int he strictest of confidence.

of course I agree with you.... this is a pet forum and I would HOPE that pet welfare comes first.

I just doubt that is the reality of it... (deleted this bit, lol)

But hey if the forum powers-that-be will implement some kind of flagging system... then I am definitely ALL for it.

I don't see why running a bsuiness doesn't mean you can't also be ethical about it.

I think that other site you mentioned... someone on here recently got 2 ads removed from there for someone selling kittens at 6 weeks old. OK, they spring back up the next day with the same add.... but it *is* a start!! And if the forum would also implement some kind of "2 ads deleted means IP numbert gets blocked" that would be even better.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I know a woman who was selling her two litters of kittens they were born at the beginning of the summer holidays and this was nearly the end of the holidays so one litter would be 5 weeks and one would be 6 weeks, both were still suckling. I told her it was far too young to sell them and she asked how old they needed to be, when I told her it was at least 8 weeks she changed her advert to read '8 week old kittens for sale'. I think if people want to sell them too young and the rules are 8 weeks and over they will simply do as she did and say they are the required age.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> I know a woman who was selling her two litters of kittens they were born at the beginning of the summer holidays and this was nearly the end of the holidays so one litter would be 5 weeks and one would be 6 weeks, both were still suckling. I told her it was far too young to sell them and she asked how old they needed to be, when I told her it was at least 8 weeks she changed her advert to read '8 week old kittens for sale'. I think if people want to sell them too young and the rules are 8 weeks and over they will simply do as she did and say they are the required age.


excellent point!!!! and one that never even dawned on me.... and it should have dawned on me because I have read enough examples of this happening to pet forum members. The "breeders" say the kitten is 8 or 9 weeks old, but the kitten only weighs 500grams, and can hardly eat (isn't properly weaned) .... so any semi-educated guess would put the kitten at 5 weeks old.

And you are sooo right... unscrupulous breeders would just lie about the ages their kittens are to get around any regulations the forum could impose.

DAMN!!!!

(not you DogsMother) damn the bloody kitten farmers!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

The lady I spoke about in my first post did that, changed them to 6 weeks after i emailed her and 2 had already gone.


How stupid are these people buying them?? Id rather just keep all my kittens than ever sell them at 4/5/6 weeks. whats a few weeks even until 8 weeks?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Tje said:


> The "breeders" say the kitten is 8 or 9 weeks old, but the kitten only weighs 500grams, and can hardly eat (isn't properly weaned) .... so any semi-educated guess would put the kitten at 5 weeks old.


That weight is by no means impossible. I have a little boy here who was 9 weeks old yesterday and this morning weighs in at precisely 406g. He went down with diarrhoea a couple of weeks ago and, as happens sometimes with tinies, he is taking ages to actually start eating again. He is eating, but simply not enough. He keeps going, but he desperately needs to turn the corner. All that said, there is no way on earth I would be giving him away, let alone selling him, at this weight or anywhere near it!

Liz


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> How stupid are these people buying them??


I wish I could answer that question. Its one I find myself asking repeatedly (mostly to myself) here on the petforum.

The answer, when you ask people who come with 6 week old kittens, almost always seems to be . All the kittens for sale in my area were all around 6 weeks old or very many variation on the theme of the kitten was sooo sad, the house was sooo filthy, I just couldnt walk away and leave it, I had to rescue it from that hellhole. And people generally get very pissed off if you remind them they are then part of the kitten-farming/ BYB problem when they buy such young kittens.

Its a vicious circle (supply and demand) and I wish I knew how to break it.

Another part of the problem are buyers who  say they are looking for a NFC. They go to reputable breeders and they are asking for (say) £350-500 per kitten. Then they find a BYB selling for £250, and they simply think theyre getting a bargain. A lot of buyers simply arent interested in the back ground of the kitten or in how they are reared, but are very interested in thinking they have saved 100 quid. As long as it looks the part, theyre happy.

And don't even get me started on the many people who still have the mentality 12 weeks is too old, and the "fun kitten stage" is as good as over by the time you get them home at 12 weeks.



lizward said:


> That weight is by no means impossible. I have a little boy here who was 9 weeks old yesterday and this morning weighs in at precisely 406g. He went down with diarrhoea a couple of weeks ago and, as happens sometimes with tinies, he is taking ages to actually start eating again. He is eating, but simply not enough. He keeps going, but he desperately needs to turn the corner. All that said, there is no way on earth I would be giving him away, let alone selling him, at this weight or anywhere near it!
> 
> Liz


I agree Lizward, I didnt say it was impossible for a 9 week old to weigh 400grams. It is however highly unlikely that a 9 week old kitten weighing 400grams is healthy. So its better that buyers steer well clear of kittens that are too small as size is often a better indicator of age than the tripe spouted by the BYBs, who as this thread has proven, will just stick any age on to their kittens to get shot off them as soon as they can. So say (just for the sake of this discussion) you did try to sell this little boy of yours . Any aware buyer should know that a) you are either lying about his age, or b) he is poorly. In either event any aware and responsible buyer should steer well clear.

I hope your wee boy picks up and piles the pounds on (well grams, but you know what I mean). All the best to you both!!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Tje said:


> I hope your wee boy picks up and piles the pounds on (well grams, but you know what I mean). All the best to you both!!


Thank you. I'd say I wish I could give him a few of mine, but I'm afraid it would need a bit more than that to make any difference to me 

Liz


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> unscrupulous breeders would just lie about the ages their kittens are to get around any regulations the forum could impose


True but it would at least put them the wrong side of the Sale of Goods Act. Private sales are not subject to most of the act but they are to misrepresentation. The goods must be properly described. If kitten sellers lie then at least Trading Standards can be brought in.


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