# pet shops, rabbits and the law



## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi guys. Just joined.

There was a thread on here i found by accident a while ago - pet shops should not be immune to animal welfare laws. was odd to see lol.

Just thought i'd introduce myself. I'm the voice behind this campaign.

It's 3 years in now and much progress has been made.

For those of you who don't know about it, the law allows for rabbits or any animal to receive vaccinations before sale. Does anyone do it? Think you know the answer!

So much has happened with regard to this. It's exciting to think that my hard work may ultimately save so many rabbits.

If anyone is interested in discussing this topic in detail, do respond and i can start from the beginning... :thumbup:


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd be interested to hear more about this. Personally, rabbits should be vaccinated against Myxi before being sold, as this can be done at 8 weeks old. However, because there are two types of VHD vaccine , and personally I'd only ever use Lapinject with my rabbits, I wouldn't want the breeder/saler to vaccinate my new rabbit against VHD with the Cylap jab.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

I'd be interested to know more. I think all animals should be vaccinated before going to new homes and maybe even some sort of contract to say they'll carry on vaccinating. Puppies get at least their first vaccine in most cases from breeders so why not do the same with all animals.


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok, i will try to keep the explanation brief. apologies if it is a little lengthy. Lots has happened.

Please forgive me if i address you all as being clueless. It is easier to assume you know nothing about the law to be able to explain it properly.

1. The Pet Animals Act 1951 regulates the sale of pet animals.
2. Local councils are responsible for enforcing this law by way of licensing those who sell animals as pets
3. With regard to rabbits, those who require a licence are: Pet shops and commercial breeders selling to the public. A licence is not required by those commercial breeders who supply only pet shops. The law dictates these breeders are selling products, not pets, therefore, can carry on unlicensed. A pet owner can breed and sell rabbits to the public, unlicensed also, as the law dictates a licence is not required to breed and sell surplus offspring from your own pet rabbits.
4. Councils issue licences to pet shops, with conditions attached, known as model standards. These are government guidelines, used by the council to achieve effective adherence to the Pet Animals act 1951
5. Section 6.4 in the model standard guidelines: Health, Disease & Acclimatisation, reads: All animals must receive inocculations appropriate to the species. Veterinary advice must be sought in every case.

Problem 1. Councils do not have to adopt all conditions
Problem 2. Most do adopt this condition but never thought to apply it to rabbits
Problem 3. Ultimately, vets are often advising there is no risk in a pet shop

Are vets concerned about the financial impact on a business if they say it is necessary? i think so. as it is suddenly vital when that same rabbit leaves the shop!

Every council in the country has been consulted. This debate has now reached a national level with many organisations involved. Since highlighting the issue 3 years ago, Pets at Home have trialled vaccination, with a price increase of only £5 apparently and subsequently withdrew it, openly admitting the reason being they didn't sell enough rabbits. Pets Corner, a large Southern Retail chain have said openly, they will not be vaccinating, although they'd love to pioneer it, because they know they wouldn't sell any rabbits at an increased price.

What are your views on this? Profit before welfare? or simply vaccination is not necessary? 

I believe rabbit welfare is neglected on a national scale. Figures for disease:
Estimated annual deaths in UK (all based on actual regional confirmed cases):-

Myxi - 17,286
VHD - 1000 (difficult to collate due to lack of diagnosis)
E.cuniculi - 21,000
Flystrike - 14,000

Other concerns speak for themselves in these figures but i have had to focus on one issue. I have been accused of being blinkered. Far from it.
The Animal Welfare Act 2006 expects any owner to protect their pet from disease. The government has produced guidelines to protect animals sold, from disease. Vets advise anyone buying a rabbit to have it vaccinated. Yet, the pet shop is portrayed as an immune environment in respect of both disease risk and the law.

Shocking


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I think pet shops can sometimes sell rabbits that are younger than 8 weeks (some look as young as 6 weeks old), and it would therefore be dangerous to vaccinate at this age. Also, to save money, the pet shops may combine the vaccines, which is very dangerous.

To make it safe and to make it work, it would have to be enforced strictly. However, in my view, animals shouldn't be sold in shops anyway, and they should only be purchased from reputable breeders. Wouldn't it be better to try and force pet shops to stop selling live animals, rather than try and get them to vaccinate them and allow them to continue selling animals?

Also, would you want both vaccinations to be done before sale, so rabbits couldn't be sold before 10 weeks of age?

There are a huge number of issues around pet rabbits, including unsuitable accommodation, vaccines, the way they are seen as children's pets, dental issues, poor nutrition, etc etc. Education is the solution to all this, and pet shops should be stopped from selling rabbits and selling rabbit hutches, as they are rarely suitable.


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

Why should they stop selling animals. It's not illegal. It might not be ideal but it is regulated. The regulation should be monitored and enforced. Inspections are carried out where vaccination certificates are presented. As for combining vaccines, are you making an assumption that the pet shop would carry out their own vaccinations? 

The Pet Care Trade Association have already issued advice to all retailers to source their rabbits already vaccinated for Myxi by the supplier. Is it done by even their members? No. It is very possible to have a rabbit protected against disease before it is sold. The Pet Care Trade Association have told the retailer how to achieve this.

I think attempting to stop shops selling animals is unrealistic, but enforcing the law is not. Dogs and cats sold in pet shops are expected to be vaccinated. What's different?


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

i'm more than aware of the welfare issues with rabbits you describe. This is where i have been accused of being blinkered. Not so.. if i try to discus too many things at once the issue becomes blurred.

I spend my life trying to improve welfare standards for animals. I work in education, specifically animal care. 

It's soul destroying to see any animal not receive what is best for it. It's not an ideal world but here we have something to work with. Pets at Home have already proved that less rabbits will be sold if vaccination was carried out before sale

:thumbup:


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

squeaker said:


> Why should they stop selling animals. It's not illegal. It might not be ideal but it is regulated. The regulation should be monitored and enforced. Inspections are carried out where vaccination certificates are presented. As for combining vaccines, are you making an assumption that the pet shop would carry out their own vaccinations?
> 
> The Pet Care Trade Association have already issued advice to their retailer members to source their rabbits already vaccinated for Myxi by the supplier. Is it done by members? No. It is very possible to have a rabbit protected against disease before it is sold. The Pet Care Trade Association have told the retailer how to achieve this.
> 
> I think attempting to stop shops selling animals is unrealistic, but enforcing the law is not. Dogs and cats sold in pet shops are expected to be vaccinated. What's different?


personally, I don't think any animal should be sold in pet shops. it isn't illegal, but does that mean its right?

this is where many pet shop animals come from: Rodent Farm

puppies sold in pet shops are mainly bought from puppy farms, where mothers are constantly bred, kept in dark, dirty conditions, undersocialised, not exercised.

personally, I wouldn't want my pets to come from those places, and I wouldn't want to cause suffering to their dams and litter mates by buying from a pet shop and keeping the business going.

IMO, this is a far more important issue than vaccination right at this moment, and this is what needs to be addressed now.


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

I don't disagree with you about the points you make regarding unscruplous breeders. If you have concerns about certain establishments of which you are aware, consider approaching the relevant authorities who can deal with it. If you do so and there is a problem, it will be dealt with. These people are subject to animal welfare laws.

I am so well aware of problems within the trade. It is unlikely pet shops will be banned from selling animals in the near future. Have you done anything to achieve this?

I am trying to deal with an issue that can be dealt with right now. It doesn't mean there aren't other problems which exist or that i don't see a bigger picture. Why shouldn't we deal with things we can change?


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

Les rabbits sold in pet shops means less rabbits bred by these people!!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

squeaker said:


> i Pets at Home have already proved that less rabbits will be sold if vaccination was carried out before sale


if this is what has been proved, then how can we enforce other stores to vaccinate before sale?

unfortantely, everything is run by money and profit, and if vaccinating before sale means less profit for them, they aren't going to do it.

personally, I think vaccination is very important, but I don't see why rabbits need to be vaccinated before sale. as long as the new owners are educated on vaccinations, then I don't see why they can't do it themselves.


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

It's a good point you make but just because less rabbits are sold, it doesn't mean the vaccinations aren't necessary and they shouldn't receive them. If it's a need for the animal, it should be carried out. 

Are average owners who are not prepared to pay more for a vacinated rabbit likely to go and get it done themselves when they purchase a cheaper unvaccinated rabbit? Arguably, i'd say no. Pets at Home only increased their price by £5


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

Be good to hear other opinions on this matter :thumbup:


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## Lizzie47 (Oct 3, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> personally I'd only ever use Lapinject with my rabbits, I wouldn't want the breeder/saler to vaccinate my new rabbit against VHD with the Cylap jab.


Hi, what is the difference in the two jabs as I think my rabbit had the Cylap jab???

I think vacinating is very imporatant, my current rabbit is the first one I've had and as soon as I could got her vaccinated against myxi then VHD but I know of many friends rabbits which has died because of one of the two diseases. I think the myxi one should be given before they are sold in pet shops as I find it's very important, at the very least people who are selling rabbits should say they need to be vaccinated and give the new owners information about it.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Lizzie47 said:


> Hi, what is the difference in the two jabs as I think my rabbit had the Cylap jab???
> 
> I think vacinating is very imporatant, my current rabbit is the first one I've had and as soon as I could got her vaccinated against myxi then VHD but I know of many friends rabbits which has died because of one of the two diseases. I think the myxi one should be given before they are sold in pet shops as I find it's very important, at the very least people who are selling rabbits should say they need to be vaccinated and give the new owners information about it.


cylap has been shown to have reactions in 50% of rabbits vaccinated.

Cylap reaction

warning for squeamish: http://www.englishrabbit.org.uk/cylapreport.pdf


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

I've had a chance to look at the link you posted. I doubt that rodents sold in pet shops in the UK come from this breeding centre in the Netherlands 

I'm in no way naive to the reality of mass breeding and completely agree that it's not at all ideal. As soon as an animal's welfare is compromised, that's when it should be improved or should stop. 

It's not as easy as one might think to change the way things work. Even when the evidence is overwhelming, itis near impossible to achieve what ought to be. 

I myself purchased 3 gerbils from a pet shop last year, knowing that i was going to report the owner. Having seen one bleeding all over its body, huddled in the corner, fighting off the others, i asked to purchase it with 2 friends, thinking she would die and at least i'd have the remaining pair together. As each one was removed from the tank to sell to me, i was more horrified than i ever believed i would be. The first, injured severely from being attacked was put in the box, the second with its tail broken in half with the bone sticking out, was put in the box, the third, with the bone sticking out from the base of its tail, was put in the box. The two tails were amputated that same afternoon. The beaten up gerbil survived with scarring from head to tail. She was lucky to have survived the bite deep into her abdomen.

3 happy gerbils eventually rehomed together. One pet shop owner given official caution by the RSPCA and re issued licence by local council.

This owner should have lost his licence. If 3 dogs or cats were presented to the RSPCA in that state, there would have been a very different outcome, i believe.

So, i try to change what i can. Eventually i will make a difference.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

squeaker said:


> I've had a chance to look at the link you posted. I doubt that rodents sold in pet shops in the UK come from this breeding centre in the Netherlands


there are many rodent farms and puppy farms in this country as well as aboard that are shipped in, such as puppies brought over form Ireland. I still think we should stop them selling animals altogether.


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## squeaker (Nov 29, 2010)

There are indeed many breeding centres in the UK, some of them licensed.

Have you any evidence that these centres are breaking the law? or any pictures to show the inside as you did with the other link?

The animal welfare laws can deal with any issues if they are identified.


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