# Placentas



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I am interested to know on how other breeders deal with placents/umbilical cords.

Do you leave the mother to do everything herself?

Do you let her handle the first one or two and then intervene?

Do you disconnect the placenta with your own finger nails leaving a good length behind on all kits?

Do you disconnect the placenta with sterilized scissors?

I have been taught to intervene after observing the first birth and mother's actions, if she eats it let her, then on the following detach the placenta yourself at at least one inch from kits tummy, either using finger nails to tear or round headed sterilized scissors. 

Interested to know also in case there are any obvious errors in the way I am doing things.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Personally I'd let mother nature take care. If the queen is happy to tear the cord and eat the placenta then so be it! If not and she was having a bad time, or wasn't interested in this then I would deal with the cords and placentas. I think it's a matter of seeing what Mum is like.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

But have you seen Liz's post on how the mum has bit the cord too close to the kits bellies?????? I have seen infection in a belly button before and was very worried. C.x.  I have been doing it 'my way' for 7 years now and it has seemed to be ok except on one occasion one kit went wrong


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Personally I'd let mother nature take care. If the queen is happy to tear the cord and eat the placenta then so be it! If not and she was having a bad time, or wasn't interested in this then I would deal with the cords and placentas. I think it's a matter of seeing what Mum is like.


Also *HOW* would you deal with it?


----------



## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Hi Christine - interesting thread. Like you, I tend to let the dam take care of the first one and observe how she deals with it. If she does well, leaving sufficient cord before the kitten's tummy, I let her do another and so on. The trick is holding back and allowing the queen to do what she would do naturally. 

If/when she gets tired, I take on the task of separating kitten from placenta, using my sterile round ended scissors and if these are not immediately to hand, then my fingernails come in useful (having first squeezed the cord to ensure it is closed before separating it). 

If, whilst I am observing the queen dealing with the kitten, there is any danger that the dam may bite too close to the kitten, I intervene and make the separation at a place to leave about 2.5 cm or one inch from the kitten's tummy. 

My queens usually eat the first two placentas but they don't bother with any others, contenting themselves with nibbling the cord to seperate the baby off the placenta. I sometimes have to take babies aside and rub them dry as the last couple arrive but the queen is usually good and licks each kit down to stimulate it, clear its nostrils and massage its little body into movement. 

Any placentas not eaten (all are counted with each kitten birth, as you would expect) are taken away and once all kittens are born, snuggling with mummy etc and clean bedding has been provided, all rubbish and placentas etc are binned. 

My particular weakness is to try to 'help' and start doing things. I am learning to leave things be a lot more now that my queen has shown me she can do it. One does learn with each birth what to expect and when to assist if necessary but having said this, each kitten birth is slightly different.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Rraa said:


> Hi Christine - interesting thread. Like you, I tend to let the dam take care of the first one and observe how she deals with it. If she does well, leaving sufficient cord before the kitten's tummy, I let her do another and so on. The trick is holding back and allowing the queen to do what she would do naturally.
> 
> If/when she gets tired, I take on the task of separating kitten from placenta, using my sterile round ended scissors and if these are not immediately to hand, then my fingernails come in useful (having first squeezed the cord to ensure it is closed before separating it).
> 
> ...


That's quite helpful actually Ra! you do pretty much the same as me, but I havent done the wiping down of later kits for her to dry them off, that is a brill idea and I will try it with my next lot due on the 23rd. It will keep them a lot warmer and ready for suckling, thanks. 

I am like you wanting to help and jump in, especially after being up for 48 hours on kittenwatch lol, thing is my next two due a week apart are both first time mums, so keep everything crossed! C.xx.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sorry i spoke


----------



## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Personally I'd let mother nature take care. If the queen is happy to tear the cord and eat the placenta then so be it! If not and she was having a bad time, or wasn't interested in this then I would deal with the cords and placentas. I think it's a matter of seeing what Mum is like.


Sorry Fluffypurrs - you put it so well actually - much more concisely.  You're probably better at it than I am since you seem to be ok about letting the queen deal with it wheras my inclination shows some inexperience or is it insecurity - not sure which. 

I think each breeder has something to contribute to this.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> sorry i spoke


No offence intended Fluff but just wanted to know how peeps separate the cord basically, how do you do it if necessary?


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

hey i'm no experienced breeder! i'm not sure what i would do until the situation arised! plus i never read that thread. i don't feel i can contribute now as i have no experiece much


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2008)

Ive intervened a couple of times,i find it worrying when mums more interested in the noisy kitts that have been born and ignoring the one squirming about in its bag!ive sat there and thought,gotta open bag,no give mum a chance,its a worrying time.Ive never severed cord,but had a couple chewed a bit over enthusiastically by mum.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Actually I wanted to start a good thread on how individual breeders deal with the placentas, cos even after 7 years I think I have stuff to learn...............so come on you guys how do you deal with the mucky stuff!


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Ive intervened a couple of times,i find it worrying when mums more interested in the noisy kitts that have been born and ignoring the one squirming about in its bag!ive sat there and thought,gotta open bag,no give mum a chance,its a worrying time.


I'd open the bag first Clare, get the airways going and then start worrying .........................


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Actually I think this good advice of Raa's should be made into a sticky Mark (somewhere).................

Hi Christine - interesting thread. Like you, I tend to let the dam take care of the first one and observe how she deals with it. If she does well, leaving sufficient cord before the kitten's tummy, I let her do another and so on. The trick is holding back and allowing the queen to do what she would do naturally. 

If/when she gets tired, I take on the task of separating kitten from placenta, using my sterile round ended scissors and if these are not immediately to hand, then my fingernails come in useful (having first squeezed the cord to ensure it is closed before separating it). 

If, whilst I am observing the queen dealing with the kitten, there is any danger that the dam may bite too close to the kitten, I intervene and make the separation at a place to leave about 2.5 cm or one inch from the kitten's tummy. 

My queens usually eat the first two placentas but they don't bother with any others, contenting themselves with nibbling the cord to seperate the baby off the placenta. I sometimes have to take babies aside and rub them dry as the last couple arrive but the queen is usually good and licks each kit down to stimulate it, clear its nostrils and massage its little body into movement. 

Any placentas not eaten (all are counted with each kitten birth, as you would expect) are taken away and once all kittens are born, snuggling with mummy etc and clean bedding has been provided, all rubbish and placentas etc are binned. 

My particular weakness is to try to 'help' and start doing things. I am learning to leave things be a lot more now that my queen has shown me she can do it. One does learn with each birth what to expect and when to assist if necessary but having said this, each kitten birth is slightly different


----------



## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Ive intervened a couple of times,i find it worrying when mums more interested in the noisy kitts that have been born and ignoring the one squirming about in its bag!ive sat there and thought,gotta open bag,no give mum a chance,its a worrying time.Ive never severed cord,but had a couple chewed a bit over enthusiastically by mum.


Excellent point Clare - extremely worrying.  The first time I saw this, I was torn between which comes first - let mum cat do it or shall I - but obviously, as you can guess, its most important to let the kitten breathe so free the struggling one first, then offer it to mum cat for licks.

For this reason, I tend to separate the mother from her babies after numbers one and two are born (and of course, after the maternal bonding of first licks and cleaning has been done) so that she can concentrate on giving birth to the others. The newborns who are now clean and dry are kept in a separate bed with a hot water bottle or heat pad and a soft flannel to gently lay over them so they are warm, dark and can move about and breathe.

Meanwhile, back at the birthing pool, mum is busy with her labours .... when all babies are present, new clean bedding is given and babies latched on. Sometimes though, the birth can go on for many hours and baby number one may be many hours older than the last baby.

Sometimes my queen takes a break halfway through and I give those who are nice and clean and dry a chance to suckle from mum cat before she continues to give birth to the siblings still inside her. (More clean bedding of course )


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

The only thing we differ on there Ra, is the changing bedding. Even though the first one is mucky I would leave it down for kits to get mum's scent and cause least disruption to the birthing and all that. Would maybe change the bed on day two or three depending on how messy. The bubbs initial bonding works on mum's scent so there is nothing like the birthing bed to start that off (if that makes sense?)C.x.


----------



## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Not sure there's anything much to add to this.
Mums usually take care of the placenta themselves here. I haven't had one reject them yet. I like to break the cord with my (clean) thumbnail myself - I get paranoid when I see mum chomping on the cord up close to baby's belly.


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> Not sure there's anything much to add to this.
> Mums usually take care of the placenta themselves here. I haven't had one reject them yet. I like to break the cord with my (clean) thumbnail myself - I get paranoid when I see mum chomping on the cord up close to baby's belly.


Oh but lass! what if your like me with no nails whatsoever  just bitten stubs, lol


----------



## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Well Chris, I agree with you about the mum's smell being important for the bonding of kittens to mum etc. I did find, though, the most recent birth of kittens was ever so messy and wet and when you have wet bedding, it gets cold and little tiny bodies don't like being cold and wet. They soon bonded with mumcat when she had her babies back in the warm clean bed. 

However, the litter before that was different - this was not so messy and I left the bedding in place until the last (6th) kitten was born. She just cuddled them all down the dry end of the kitten nest.

I agree with you about changing the bedding after a few days - not sure if anyone else's queens are like this but I found that my queen starts to worry about moving babies around the house if you leave the nest for too long with the same bedding.


----------



## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I think everyone has their own way of doing the birthing thing. Each Queen is different, so the births will be too. I just go with what the Mam is comfortable with and if she needs help, then I will intervene. I must say I don't leave wet/messy bedding down and i've never had any problems with bonding. I personally would'nt of wanted to be left on a wet smelly bed after giving birth. It's nice to be clean & fresh after giving birth, so I do the same for my girls As I say, everyone has different ideas and nobody is right or wrong in my opinion. As long as the cat is comfortable and happy, I think thats all that matters*


----------



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

This is an excellent thread guys - some really useful information that you cannot find in a text book!!
I have nothing to add but am reading this for my future litters!


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I agree Saffron, there are some things now that I have picked up on and can add to my birthing routine


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I've always let her do it herself, if she hasn't done it then I use scissors to cut the cord.

Liz


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Rraa said:


> Well Chris, I agree with you about the mum's smell being important for the bonding of kittens to mum etc. I did find, though, the most recent birth of kittens was ever so messy and wet and when you have wet bedding, it gets cold and little tiny bodies don't like being cold and wet.


O yes, I forgot to mention, my most recent lot were born on an armchair. Thanks, Katie dear!

Liz


----------



## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Hahaha, Liz, they find some funny places don't they!! 
I was told by my vet not to use scissors and always use my nails to break the cord, rubbing thumb & finger together like the mams teeth. Not that I have much in the way of nails, lol*


----------



## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

eeeee Liz!  Shame about your armchair - LOL  - did you manage to clean it up afterwards or was it thrown out? 

Main thing is that the queen and her kittens were happy, healthy and safe.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I cleaned it up - but the odd thing was, there didn't seem to be very much at all to clean up. The armchair is red ....


----------



## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Maybe just as well, I'm sure any visitors won't notice!


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> I cleaned it up - but the odd thing was, there didn't seem to be very much at all to clean up. The armchair is red ....


Oh yuk! you mean there might still be stuff there? lol what you like lady pmsl


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Fantastic thread to start Chrissy-pats on the back from me to you with love and respect me dear Only just read this thread and can't contribute really as agree with Rita and have to say our gals have been brill with placenta's in that they don't do placenta on the side but they do come and we bag em and bin em and for the cords-again they have done so very well, but pats for you to Rita as you posted fab advice in such a good way-very informative and helpfulI am sending you both cyber pete badges as i post-which entitles you to huge YAYS all day long-never to expireHave to say Liz love-didn't have you down for a filthy mareLol


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Liz (filthy mare) makes me laugh, I have Liz down for the most pristeen cleanliest breeder in the world (sorry Liz) but madam Perfecto! all respect due. 

You kelly crack me up as always


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

AAh-your a one you are woman


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

C'mon will you! get on with delivering those blooming babies


----------



## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

I've told her nicley, i've begged her and i am now having naughty thoughts involving extremley hot vindaloo to be washed down with cod liver oil
do ya think that would be a tad extreme or should i just hold out


----------



## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

You could take her for a bumpy car ride over the moors??????? pmsl


----------

