# He hates his returning brother



## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

We have two cats who are the same age, from the same father but different mothers. Sam is a Russian Blue and Max is a chocolate-point Siamese. They are totally different characters but typical for their respective breeds, despite their mixed genes. They are now eight years old and they usually get on very well together and usually sleep together at night. They both come in voluntarily every evening and never stay out at night. 
However, Max disappeared at the start of summer every year for the first 3 years of his life and I had to go searching for him. Each time, he was in the same area about a mile away from home and it took 3 days to find him. 
He hasn't done this for the last 4 years so we thought it was out of his system. Unfortunately not! Last week, he suddenly went missing on Sunday afternoon and the search started immediately but without success. The next day, I put notices all around the area and went out calling him several times each day. Meanwhile, Sam was wailing and would not go away from the house.
Thursday morning, the phone rang at 8am and a lady asked if I had lost a cat called Max. He was in her garden and she had read his medallion. She said he seemed to be injured as he was laying down, talking a lot but not walking. He was in the same general area where he had previously gone missing so I dashed over to collect him. He was so excited to see me and there was nothing wrong with him physically. I think he had been putting on an act to get the finder's attention.
Each time he has done this, on returning home, his half-brother has chastised him severely and that behaviour from Sam has got worse. This time he is spitting fire and brimstone, still five days later. Max is bewildered. He can't understand why Sam is so nasty to him.
It's an interesting bit of cat psychology and seeing Sam's distress turn to anger is very human in a way.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Sam is a very nervous highly-strung cat and is very quick to spit or scratch if he's frightened. Max is as placid as could be. I've never heard him spit or known him to be agressive in any way. He's the sort of cat with whom you can have a conversation and he has a very cute way of gently tapping me on the side of my face if he has something to communicate. Max loves children and we suspect that his wandering is due to him following a family out walking in our neighbourhood.
My concern is to know if, this time Max has gone too far for Sam. Will they ever get back together?


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## luvinsmudge4eva (Aug 9, 2011)

It's a difficult situation but the cats will probably know whats best for them. Try seperating them for an hour or so but so they can still hear each other so its like the old days. You could try playing with them together with a teaser toy but its like introducing a new cat of the same sex into your home. they see it as bad and because they are related, Sam could see Max as an enemy wanting to take over his home. it is Sam's home now as hes probably forgotten Max was there at all. Are they both neutered? that could make a difference. Just give it time to settle down.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

2 possibles - has he been seen by a vet? cats can be funny to ill cats

2nd - change of smell from being somewhere new

may just be a sorting the order out again - you could try feliway to help, but i'd get the wonderer checked to be sure first.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

luvinsmudge4eva said:


> It's a difficult situation but the cats will probably know whats best for them. Try seperating them for an hour or so but so they can still hear each other so its like the old days. You could try playing with them together with a teaser toy but its like introducing a new cat of the same sex into your home. they see it as bad and because they are related, Sam could see Max as an enemy wanting to take over his home. it is Sam's home now as hes probably forgotten Max was there at all. Are they both neutered? that could make a difference. Just give it time to settle down.


They are both neutered so that doesn't come into the equation and I think cats have longer memories than that. Sam was distressed about Max's absence right up to the time he came home so I'm inclined to think he's just expressing his annoyance at the stress Max caused him. I hope they will just settle down in time.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

broccoli said:


> 2 possibles - has he been seen by a vet? cats can be funny to ill cats
> 
> 2nd - change of smell from being somewhere new
> 
> may just be a sorting the order out again - you could try feliway to help, but i'd get the wonderer checked to be sure first.


I doubt that he saw a vet in those 4 days but Sam is a sniffer. Every time I stroke him, he has to sniff my hand and he did give Max a good sniffing when he first arrived home last Thursday. Then he immediately hissed and wacked Max on the head. Poor old Max is bewildered and has several times tried to approach Sam only to get rejected.
We live in Belgium and I have not seen Fellway here. I'll ask at the pet shop.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

that may mean he needs a vet - a sniffy cat notices things!
minor stuff like uti ( urine infection) may cause smell change - especially if sam always was 'whatever'  before when he came baack

your vet may sell feliway - its a pheromone stress reducer - cheaper on ebay though!


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

You could try sprinkling a litle baby talc in their coats (especially around the back end) rub it in and make sure you brush it all out. They should smell the same to each other then so it may help.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, it's a week today since Max came home and, although Sam's hissing and aggression has not completely stopped, it has subsided.
Max is very stoical and seems determined to not only stand his ground but also to go to Sam, even when Sam is hissing. He's very persistent and I think he will win back Sam's friendship all on his own.
We are giving them their food side by side and we have been throwing their toys so that they both run for them together. For the most part, it seems that the hostility is gradually disappearing.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, it looks like I spoke too soon. Sam is still hissing at Max at every opportunity. He really is behaving as if he wishes Max had not been found. However, during the four days Max was away, he was wailing constantly.
It is heart-rending to have this behaviour going on all the time and, despite having had cats for fifty years, we are at a loss to know how to deal with it.
We did get some Feliway spray (as recommended earlier) and have sprayed the bed where they normally sleep together, wrapping their paws round each other. Max obviously likes it as he licks the bed before settling down. However, Sam won't go near the bed.
I have sprayed cushions they normally sit on together but no, Sam sits anywhere else and hisses at Max from a distance. A few times he has gone over to Max, sniffed him and then hissed and wacked him.
Sam has always had a tendency to be a loner and to spend most of his time in neighbouring gardens, whereas Max is a stay-at-home cat - except for these rare disappearances when he seems to follow people and gets himself lost.
Max is evidently, unable to comprehend why his beloved brother is behaving so badly towards him and I'm worried that he is going into a depression.
It would be so nice to be able to consult an expert in cat behaviour.


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## stratcat (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm following this thread with interest as I've just brought my 'stay at home' cat (Hendrix) back after a couple of days at the vets due to a blocked urinary tract. Exactly the same situation, they normal 'kiss and cuddle' all the time, but the cat that was at home (Marley) is seething mad, grumbling and hissing all the time, which is something he's never done. Hendrix is crawling around bewildered at why he's been treat like this. I wish there was something I could do, I feel so helpless


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## stratcat (Aug 15, 2011)

*Quick update*

My wife spoke to the vet this morning and he said that he was surprised at the ferrocity of the reaction, however, the best course of action is Feliway spray. He said the room vapouriser would be no good as the cats are moving around the house alot and we would need one in every room (which would cost big £££'s) So we have to spray each room thoroughly and hope that it does the job.

I'll keep you updated if we have any success.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for your interest stratcat and sorry to hear that you have a similar situation. It is very stressful isn't it.
We managed to find the Feliway spray at our local pharmacy but it is rather expensive at 22.39 (£19.80) for a small bottle. So far, it only seems to be pleasing Max (Siamese) and he doesn't really need it. It's Sam (the nervous Russian Blue) who is angry. He will now not go near the bed, whether Max is in it or not. He prefers to sleep on a chair.
My logic says we should only spray Feliway on the places where we want both cats to go - their bed and the cushions they normally sleep on. Unfortunately, Sam does not seem attracted/impressed at all.
Is this really the end of a beautiful friendship?


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## K337 (May 20, 2011)

I had the same thing happen when Bloo went to the vets overnight. Freckle (his brother) was given lots of cuddles and was very affectionate towards my husband and I while Bloo was gone. When Bloo returned I noticed that he smelt very different and so did Freckle! He hissed and chased him out of rooms and kept smacking him with paw + claws. 

Do you know what they are like when you aren't around? We found out that after a few days, if we weren't there then Freckle would be fine around Bloo. As soon as we were there, he would start up the hissing and hitting again! It eventually sorted itself out (with some admonishments from me) although it took over a week before they could be very close to each other. Hopefully your two are getting along again soon!


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

They are together all night, with the run of the hallway, kitchen and their usual room. We don't hear any fighting but Sam certainly hissed at Max when they were brought out of the living room last night.
One thing that could be making the situation worse is that Max is on antibiotics at the moment in preparation for a visit to the vet to have his teeth cleaned. He has had a foul breath recently and that has disappeared with the antibiotics. Perhaps Sam had grown attached to Max's bad breath.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Watch this space....
Max is being very patient and is evidently confident that he's going to regain Sam's friendship. We saw him march up to Sam yesterday, give him a lick on the head and then walk on. Last night, Sam sat on the desk next to the bed looking down at Max sleeping and I wondered if he was actually going to join him but no.
This morning, I found them on two kitchen chairs sleeping close together.
So, fingers crossed; it does seem that they are resolving their differences themselves. Let's hope the dental visit doesn't set them off again.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Things are tense here. Max has now developed a cough and snuffles. I think this is the cat flu virus that they both had as kittens. It comes out in times of stress.
Sam is still being difficult and it seems that he detests Feliway.
Do we have the only cat in the world that reacts against this product? I just sprayed a little on his chair last night; he took one sniff, immediately left the room and spent the night in the kitchen. Max just licks it if I spray it on his bed.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

The saga continues - last night, Sam was sleeping on the sofa and Max crept in very gently and cuddled up to Sam's back. After a few minutes, Sam woke up and just stretched as though everything was back to normal. They still slept apart last night but ...
Max is so patient, it's a joy to watch how clever he is at working his way back into Sam's affections.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

However, Sam is not giving in that easily. He continues to hiss and wack Max at every opportunity. It is evident that Max is dismayed and so are we. How could it go from being a cuddly relationship for eight years to this hostility, just because Max went missing for four days?


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

look through other threads or start a new one about cat stress - i know there are some other remedies, but dont know the names... sorry! some you pop in their water - others will know!


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Max has been under the care of the vet (weekly visits) since his 4-day absence because he has tracheitis (coughing) and nasal congestion (snorting). However, apart from the evident bewilderment at Sam's behaviour, he is as bright as a button.
I've talked to the vet but he just says, that's how cats are. He's not a behaviourist so he doesn't have a clue in that respect. He just deals with physical health and he says Max is fine apart from his upper respiratory tract.
We are trying to get Max well enough to have his teeth descaled as he has had the most awful bad breath for the last couple of months.
Max is also constantly washing himself at present and I wonder if that is because Sam always hisses after sniffing Max. However, that is probably making him smell bad all over, so making Sam dislike him even more.
It's all very puzzling.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Here's a photo of Sam (Russian Blue) and Max (Chocolate-point Siamese) in their friendlier days:


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Heh, guess what! Last night Max jumped on the chair where Sam was sleeping. Sam immediately started hissing, jumped down and went into another room. Max settled down in Sam's place and went to sleep. Same came back, jumped up on the chair and settled down to sleep with Max for a couple of hours.
Progress at last!
Even so, Sam would not go to bed with Max. Prior to this event, they always slept together at night.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, this seems to be more of a blog than a forum!
For anyone who may be interested, Max's persistence seems to have paid off at last. I have not heard any spitting from Sam for the last few days and Max is managing to regularly join Sam for their daytime siesta.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

hurrah! :001_tt1:


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

broccoli said:


> hurrah! :001_tt1:


Thanks broccoli; nice to know that someone is interested.
Max has now taken to sleeping at night on a chair adjacent to Sam rather than sleeping alone in the double bed. He's evidently quite determined to regain Sam's company.


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## *kate* (Feb 18, 2010)

I feel your pain for sure. I also have 2 boys, Bengal cross, who would sleep together and play all the time. Pickle went missing and we got him back luckily after almost 4 weeks, Milo pinned the whole time Pickle was gone so much that we were on the verge of getting another cat to keep him company.

When I went to get pickle I was so pleased to have him back but he got a similar welcome home that you describe. Heartbreaking as they were so close before. 

All I can say is that it took some time, we bathed Pickle to get rid of any foreign smells and brushed Milo then Pickle with the same brush to transfer the scents. We had a tough initial few weeks as they fought quite badly. We had to try and remember not to berate Milo for hissing as it made him worse and scared Pickle. We kept the same routine, feeding them together and tried not to separate them and gradually they went back to normal. One day I came home and they were curled up together fast asleep.

The best advice I can give is din't give up hope. They will eventually be firm friends again. :smile5:


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

That's great to hear Kate. Sorry that you went through a similar experience but it is comforting to know that our episode was not unique.
Our two have been curled up together on the sofa this evening so the feud sems to be over. Thank goodness!


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

fingers crossed!


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

broccoli said:


> fingers crossed!


They now cuddling and zooming around together but still not sleeping in the bed at night. Max's persistence is paying off.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

We seem to have reached an impasse with Sam reolutely refusing to go to sit or sleep with Max. Max has to go to Sam and that rules out sleeping together as Sam sleeps on my wife's computer chair where there is only room for one. If we block his access to that chair, he sleeps on a kitchen chair. He has clearly made up his mind that he now sets the rules. Max has to pay for his crime.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

is sam not in your bed at night now?....hmm, well, maybe max will wear him down...it is his fault!  
and its not hatred anymore  better than the start


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

broccoli said:


> is sam not in your bed at night now?....hmm, well, maybe max will wear him down...it is his fault!
> and its not hatred anymore  better than the start


Oh yes but Max is now getting exasperated by Sam's behaviour so he has started attacking Sam, evidently saying, "I'm sick of your stand-offishness".
It's so sad to see Max in his bed alone every night. We could, of course, put an obstacle on all three of Sam's night time places in the hope that it might force him to go into the bed with Max but we've resisted doing that so far.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

no, dont think you can speed it - hopefully the chilly weather will make him more cuddle inclined ..


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

broccoli said:


> no, dont think you can speed it - hopefully the chilly weather will make him more cuddle inclined ..


No, that's our feeling too. We've tried putting him in the bed with Max but he immediately jumps out and gives us an indignant look.
We're away next week so they will be imprisoned together with our daughter popping in twice every day to do the chores. Let's hope they sort it out between them.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

That week of imprisonment has resolved the friendship issues but Sam will still not sleep in the bed with Max.
We're looking forward to the colder weather to see if that will bring them together.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Great news! last night we went to the cinema. When we came home Max was not at the front door as usual to greet us, we took a look in the study and the two of them were in the bed - Max had a really pleased look on his face.
The cold weather did it!
So, that took 3 months for Sam to forgive Max for his 4-day disappearance. What an amazing study of cat psychology this has been.


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## sharonchilds (Jul 7, 2011)

Just caught up with this thread...Oh dear what a time you have had.
Glad it all seems to have sorted its self out now....Fingers crossed they stay best mates


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2011)

I have just caught up with this thread Also, So glad they seem to be getting along better now. Sam & Max are both beautiful cats


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes, it seems they are the best of buddies again. Phew! We've had cats for 50 years but I have never experienced such behaviour before or such a long held grudge.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Oh dear me! It's happening all over again. We had to take Max to the vet for an x-ray and to have he teeth descaled on Thursday so he was away all day. Sam was distressed by his absence and kept searching the house for him, making wailing noises.
When I brought Max back in the late afternoon, Sam immediately behaved as though Max was a stranger, without even getting close enough to sniff him.
Two days later, he's still spitting at Max and even making attack runs towards him. I don't think any blood has been drawn but who knows what goes on during the night when they are on their own.
I just hope this isn't going to take another 3 months to resolve. It's just too distressing for us.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

brianmf said:


> Oh dear me! It's happening all over again. We had to take Max to the vet for an x-ray and to have he teeth descaled on Thursday so he was away all day. Sam was distressed by his absence and kept searching the house for him, making wailing noises.
> When I brought Max back in the late afternoon, Sam immediately behaved as though Max was a stranger, without even getting close enough to sniff him.
> Two days later, he's still spitting at Max and even making attack runs towards him. I don't think any blood has been drawn but who knows what goes on during the night when they are on their own.
> I just hope this isn't going to take another 3 months to resolve. It's just too distressing for us.


suggestion for next time try taking both to the vet even if only one is being treated then they will both smell of vet


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## TatiLie (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm loving this thread! Amazing study on cats behaviour! 
Forgive me for sounding over enthusiastic on your stressful times.
I find adorable Max trying to conquest Sam's friendship again, and Sam's expressing his upsetting over the brother's disappearing/reappearing act. Maybe it will keep Max from wandering too far from home.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Cloudygirl said:


> suggestion for next time try taking both to the vet even if only one is being treated then they will both smell of vet


Yes , that had occured to me too. We do normally take both for routine things like vacs but this was different.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

TatiLie said:


> I'm loving this thread! Amazing study on cats behaviour!
> Forgive me for sounding over enthusiastic on your stressful times.
> I find adorable Max trying to conquest Sam's friendship again, and Sam's expressing his upsetting over the brother's disappearing/reappearing act. Maybe it will keep Max from wandering too far from home.


It certainly is extraordinary. In 50+ years of having cats we have never seen anything like it. Max is completely bewildered but I'm sure he will win Sam's affection back - eventually.


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## brianmf (Aug 9, 2011)

Tonight is really the first time they have sat on my wife's lap face to face without any hostility. So this time it's taken Sam about three weeks to forgive Max, rather than 3 months when Max went missing for four days. Strangely proportional chastisement! They certainly do have their odd behavioural characteristics.


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