# Dog training myths and facts



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I was amazed to see a Dogs Trust representative, with Robert Alleyne from Dog Borstal on BBC breakfast this morning. Stating that his methods were cruel, for using a rattle bottle and a spray collar!!!!!

From what I could understand, she was only advocating treats for good behaviour and ignoring for bad behaviour. PLEASE. Try ignoring a 7 stone GSD that is intent upon jumping at strangers and not responding to being ignored. She went on to say that you would ignore this behaviour and when your dogs stops jumping up, reward him. 

Robert Alleyne listened to what she had to say and explained how he had just treated a large GSD that was jumping up at people and biting them. The owner had tried ignoring this behaviour and using a reward when it stopped. Her dog then took this as a sign, that every time he jumped up and bite her, if he waited a few seconds, he would then be rewarded. I believe Robert used a rattle can in that instance until the behaviour stopped.

I know people who have been to Bob and he has actually invited me up to his centre, and in no way, can you consider his training methods as nasty 

It seems that the DogsTrust now regard spray collars and rattle cans as cruel!! Is this going too far?


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## 0400772 (Apr 1, 2009)

I have just finished another thread on here mainly based on the arguements for and against Cesar Milan's methods. However Dog Borstal was mentioned.

The rattle tin i can totally understand. When you dog is doing something you generally shout no. The tin can method i suppose works in the same way. It is a shock deterant. Like if a child went to poke their fingers in the fire and you screamed NO! would they do it again?

Im far from an expert but i do this deterants work. Im not a big fan of any behaviourist, tv or otherwise as everyone has GOOD and BAD points, however i do know that some methods are and have worked for me.

The slight tug on the leash to divert attention when out walking, mainly done in Cesar Milans theory is working for me. Same as Dog Borstal of turning when dog pulls, although im not too harsh as they are. Both mean that the dog has to be alert to you and what you plan next, keeps them distracted from everytrhing else.

Also i dont know if anyone saw the episode of Cesar Milan with the Dalmation puppy at the fire house. The dog ruled as no consistent rules were applied. The dog runs all around the "forecourt" (dont know the correct word). I have done the method in my own house with my dog. If i dont want him to enter a room, especially for people with babies, his boundaries are the door! i.e. if he comes over that door put him back. The rattle can i suppose can show him that what he did was wrong , then by you showing him what you want him to do.

I would love to hear peoples opinions on this but i suppose everyone is rather opinionated differently. What works for some may not work for all...


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

To be honest just ignoring them can be really hard.
I have a very bouncy lab, who is 11 months old, although he walks perfectly, first off when we get out the door, he jumps up at me and tries to bite me, ignoring him has never worked, he just does it even more as he thinks he can get away with it. I did try the rattle can thing, but once again, he didn't even bother and it made him worse, though for other dogs it is different and I know many people have used it successfully, therefore I don't find it cruel. I think it's only cruel if a dog becomes scared of i, as it could then become fear aggressive and cause many more problems.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I am in favour of correcting bad behaviour. Ignoring has it's place, but sometimes the dog needs to understand it is doing the wrong thing at the time. The flip side is.... sometimes a dog wants attention, so by you giving it them (even though it may be negative) it could be what they want.

Again, depends on the dog


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

i tried the ignoring route when my dogs used to jump up....i just turned my back on them ignoring. 
Well, dogs didnt stop jumping, i ended up with multiple scratches all over me and then i resorted to use a water bottle. I had to spray them once and they got the message.

Ignoring doesnt always work and it all depends on the dog as well. Im not sure if i would use a rattle bottle though, as this imo might make the dog nervous and jumpy. A water bottle is working similar but i find its more unpleasant for the dog being sprayed rather than be scared.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

I suppose we should really keep an open mind as different techniques will work differently with different dogs and owners...
and most importantly we should stop all that nonsense of political correctness (mentioned, to my pleasure , by Robert on TV this morning); you cant say the words dominance without everybody going at you like a pack of wolves without even wondering what exactly you mean by it, or discipline and correction...and any type of physical contact in disciplining, between you and your dog (or child for that matter) becomes the greatest sin of all!! come on! 

The rattle bottle; didnt like the idea much, tried once, Diego thought it was a really nice game  it ended up being one more toy for him as a puppy.
Water spraying was the only thing that worked to stop Diego attacking the vaccum cleaner...whilst my boy is afraid of NOTHING, he doesnt fancy water that much. Now he lets me do my cleaning in peace  (note that i would praise him also when he didnt attack it even if its because of the squirt of water he just received lol)

You cant educate a child just by giving good things when he behaves well and ignoring the rest..and it is dangerous..same with a dog..there needs to be a balance!

Nina - great to see you have some real insight into Robert's work - I think that should be necessary before deciding whether some guy's methods are cruel or not - instead of judging at a distance!!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Oblada said:


> Nina - great to see you have some real insight into Robert's work - I think that should be necessary before deciding whether some guy's methods are cruel or not - instead of judging at a distance!!


Bob is a lovely guy and only has the dogs welfare at heart. He is also a dog behaviourist and his methods are based on reward for good behaviour and to some extent ignore bad. However, it does not always work and at times a rattle bottle, or spray collar is called for, but as I have said many times on the forum, under supervision. Using these methods willy nilly can provoke worse problems, so you do need professional advice.

I was just stunned by the DogsTrust representative and extremely worried, since a large dog displaying signs of real dominance and aggression could become completely unmanageable if you listened to her advice


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Dogs do what works. It depends on the behaviour, as to whether ignoring will work.

Barking, for example: it's quite a self-rewarding behaviour. Dogs often appear to quite like the sound of their own voices LOL! But it depends on WHY they are barking. If a dog is barking for YOUR attention and it is ignored, but a few seconds of silence ARE rewarded by attention, it will learn that barking doesn't work in that situation.

However, ignoring a dog who is barking at the postman is not going to stop him....

Rather than teaching a dog what NOT to do, it is a better idea to teach it what you would like it to do instead. Taking the example of jumping up - well, jumping up DOES bring the dog nearer to you, so simply ignoring may well have limited effectiveness. Clicker training would probably accomplish the same result as a rattle bottle etc, only in a much nicer way.

Once the clicker is charged, the dog jumps up for attention and owner turns his back, saying nothing, no eye contact... four paws on the floor get a "click" and treat and, more importantly, FAR more fuss than jumping up achieves. Dog learns that while jumping up brings a certain amount of contact, NOT jumping up earns FAR more rewards.

They do what works


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## samuelito (May 23, 2009)

treain your dog

deaca3a2 -


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

samuelito said:


> treain your dog
> 
> deaca3a2 -


There's plenty of good advice on the net that you don't have to pay money for :rolleyes5:


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Colliepoodle said:


> There's plenty of good advice on the net that you don't have to pay money for :rolleyes5:


I will second that


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