# Over tired puppy



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Hi all,

So I've had Miko for just over fortnight (feels like forever lol) and I've noticed that he gets over tired just like a toddler.

Which is fine but he gets a bit nasty with it instead of the usual play biting and mouthing it takes on a more serious turn with his nose all wrinkled up, growling and generally being moody. I do my best with redirection towards a toy (normally Mr. Pheasant who is actually a duck lol) or a Kong or an ice cube but sometimes it just goes on for so long that I wonder if that's the right thing to do.

My oh who's owned dogs previously doesn't really help, its my dog my responsibility, which is fine and I understand but either give me constructive critism or stop moaning when I'm doing the best I can lol

He's 12weeks old BC and I'm giving him a little more than the recommended 15-30mins exercise for his age as he seems to want it. I'm also doing some clicker training with him to tire him mentally each day but the length varies.

So my actual question is

Am I doing the right thing by redirecting when he's getting a bit nasty?
Is there anything I can do to get him to nap quicker?

Thanks in advance


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Yes you are right to redirect him.
Put him in his crate or teach him a command to settle may help. We always popped out dogs in their crates/ usual sleeping spot for a nap when they got too over the top. 

Also know the recommended time is for onlead walking, he can have more time if its offlead/running around the garden/on a long lead as he can go at his own pace. Trick trainging and games will also go a long way to tiring him out too as mental stimulation is pretty tiring when they are young.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Crate training is very much an ongoing process at the moment but I could use this to help it along a bit! Thank you so much! Xxx

Meant to add to original post is this getting nasty when overtired something he is likely to grow out of?


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

We call it "Running with Scissors" 
I keep a book by the crate. When the horrid Miss Piggy Bumface (15 weeks) gets too hysterically overtired, I pop her in and sit calmly by the crate and read. It's like flicking a switch, she calms down almost immediately and falls asleep. After about 15-20 minutes I open the door and she toddles out quietly and falls asleep in the porch, her favourite place.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Haha! Love piggy bumface! 

Brilliant sounds like crate may be the way to go then. I'll try and crack his crate training. We're still at the two feet in the door point at moment even with dinner in there right at the back. Although in fairness to him I did get the door shut but not locked whilst he had breakfast this morning xxx


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Rach&Miko said:


> Crate training is very much an ongoing process at the moment but I could use this to help it along a bit! Thank you so much! Xxx
> 
> Meant to add to original post *is this getting nasty when overtired something he is likely to grow out of*?


Definitely yes. It shouldn't last long. I used to stick my pups in their crates when they were over-tired and turn the lights off in the kitchen. I didn't have to crate train them as such, because I bred them and the whole litter had a big crate with a pen around it. It was what they were used to as their place since they started getting mobile. They'd go straight to sleep and wake up in an hour or so with all their sweetness restored.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Phew! So long as there is an end in sight to it! Thank you


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Lol Teddy was a small, black, fluffy bundle of snarling, spitting fury when he was a puppy at times! I worried about it too but did just as my sister used to do with her babies when they were overtired, I used to wrap him up in a blanket and cuddle him until he calmed down then pop him in his crate for a very-necessary nap!  xx

It will get better!! But naps are important for pups - and for your sanity!  xx


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

So true!!!

Someone wrote on another thread at some point that puppies have to be cute so we can put up with all the sh*t they put us through! (I'm sure it was put across more eloquently than that) That's stuck with me ever since I read it lol xxx


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Just to add to the stress levels here, there's a bitch in season somewhere in the area so Boogie's come over all Austin Powers 
I'm completely discombobulated


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm dreading that happening lol but want to wait til he's older to make him a little lighter lol


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Hanlou said:


> Lol Teddy was a small, black, fluffy bundle of snarling, spitting fury when he was a puppy at times! I worried about it too but did just as my sister used to do with her babies when they were overtired, I used to wrap him up in a blanket and cuddle him until he calmed down then pop him in his crate for a very-necessary nap!  xx
> 
> It will get better!! But naps are important for pups - and for your sanity!  xx


My two were the same, and yes my Mum rolled her eyes at me one day as I was almost swaddling Hilde as she was being an absolute brat because she was over tired, but wrapped up and held on my shoulder she would zone out very quickly and get some much needed sleep.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rach&Miko said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So I've had Miko for just over fortnight (feels like forever lol) and I've noticed that he gets over tired just like a toddler.
> 
> ...


Some pups get to a stage where they become incapable of winding down and the more they get over stimulated and/or overtired the worse they will be unwanted behaviour wise, some you have to actually teach them to learn to wind down and rest almost. The more you interact with him, or provide stimulation of some sort the worse he may be getting which maybe is why these episodes go on for so long.

Have you got a quiet area where you can put him and he can go too when he starts to get grouchy and badly behaved. If not I would perhaps try this, still give him a Kong or a puppy safe type of chew, but give him a quiet area away from you or even on his own too, give him the chew or kong and just leave him. You will often find that they will have a good go at the kong or chew wind then wind down and then often drop off to sleep. Chewing is a destresser for dogs. Its possible he is teething that likely wont be helping, some really do become grouchy, one of mine was fine one was a real handful when teething. It might be why he is more mouthy and biting harder too for the last couple of weeks. Chewing should help with the teething aswell.

Border collies also do need to do something to keep their brains occupied and its just as important if not sometimes more so then physical exercise. I would start to try and do a few set combined training and play sessions a few times a day. It may even be an idea to think about taking him to a training class too, its normally only an hour or so a week and then you can practice what you learn each week at the home training sessions. If you don't already I would perhaps start a few wind down and rest sessions as part of his routine after having a bout of activity through the day.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks SDH very comprehensive reply!

A lot of that is in place but maybe not at the right times - I'll work on that!

I'm gradually expanding his brain work as you are right that its more important especially with this breed it's just the usual puppy attention span issues so then it becomes a "look at me" session lol but he's doing well and responding well to the training and brain games I do with him both inside and outside.

Thanks for your help xxx


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

So just a quick update on our progress just over a week later.

Crate training wasn't going well and due to a bit of a move round we later decided to remove it but he still has his bed. Instead we use a whole room as a crate and everyone including Miko seems quite happy with that!

He does still get overtired and nasty but then its 3strikes (no, ow, distraction etc) and then off to the room you go if you haven't stopped whatever unwanted overtired behaviour and within minutes he settles down to chew something he's allowed to or straight to sleep.

Only had one really bad night with him since and that was due to an important but stressful phonecall and the OH not fully understanding the new rules and how to implement them so was my fault more than Miko's.

So thank you everyone for your input although I'm not using a crate specifically he still has his happy safe space and bed and toys etc just in a way that is modified to suit us xxx


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## memylou (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi our collie is now 17 weeks and has gotten past this stage but he was exactly the same, thankfully popping him in his crate worked for us and he usually just fell asleep straight away. He was always quite mouthy but maybe 2 weeks ago when he started losing his baby teeth it really calmed down and now he's like a whole different dog x


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## memylou (Mar 27, 2011)

I agree with sdh, pip thrives with training sessions, he's such a happy dog but even more so when we've had a wee session. I started off doing 5 minutes 3 times a day and we do 10 minutes 3 times a day now but obviously we also do lead training on our walks along with recall. We walk on a long training line so he's going at his own pace and we go out for an hour or so twice a day, I would only do many 30-40 mins on a short lead but this way he's going at his pace and can manage more. We go to a training class once a week but tbh this is more so we can practice what we're already doing with distractions, good luck with him, they definitely take some work but it's so worth it


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

My two got overstimulated, crotchety and were popped into their crate for obligatory rest periods. Definitely redirect.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Still doing training with him in several short bursts during the day based on his attention span and he loves it. Gradually extending the time we spend it on it similar to you 5, 10, 15mins etc.

But really seeing the difference and the light at the end of the tunnel so thank you all so much! Xxx


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## caju (Jan 3, 2015)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Have you got a quiet area where you can put him and he can go too when he starts to get grouchy and badly behaved. If not I would perhaps try this, still give him a Kong or a puppy safe type of chew, but give him a quiet area away from you or even on his own too, give him the chew or kong and just leave him. You will often find that they will have a good go at the kong or chew wind then wind down and then often drop off to sleep. Chewing is a destresser for dogs. Its possible he is teething that likely wont be helping, some really do become grouchy, one of mine was fine one was a real handful when teething. It might be why he is more mouthy and biting harder too for the last couple of weeks. Chewing should help with the teething aswell.


This is exactly what we did. Our RR as a pup would get very bitey and jumpy when he was too tired. A real nightmare. Once we learned to see it coming (or if we missed it coming, then as soon as he started) we would just put him in the utility room, with a baby-gate across the door and nothing around for him to make trouble with except a kong. He would chew it for a bit but within 5 minutes would usually be asleep.

You're right OP, they're exactly like toddlers in this respect.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

When I was explaining to OH why poor Miko was so upset with the phone call I said to him its like having a Spanish toddler... He doesn't understand English and he doesn't know how to deal with the stress that was around him lol xxx


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