# Omg omg. Rosie having first call. Help



## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Ok am bursting here ... Ok just been in to check on my girl, acting strange and my boy going bonkers.. Defo calling, thought she was sick at first with the funny noises she was making.. 

Question... She had not eaten much all day, do queens tend to go off there food while on call 

Also I have my another girl in with my as she has a runny bum, under control tho, if I put her out with a caller will she come into call too, silly question maybe but just wondered ... 

Thx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

One of mine goes off her food, the other two don't. One starts calling and as they stop the next one starts - that seems to be the pattern with mine anyway


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Agree and yes they can set each other off.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> One of mine goes off her food, the other two don't. One starts calling and as they stop the next one starts - that seems to be the pattern with mine anyway


Thank you , phew thats why I thought she was poorly, as the first thing I do Is check food bowls, tried tempting her but it was I big fat No .


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Agree and yes they can set each other off.


Great. Lol that's ruby staying in then lol


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Agree and yes they can set each other off.


Just done a big of working out, and am worried ... She may have a her third call in May but not one year ol until July... Advise needed


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Just done a big of working out, and am worried ... She may have a her third call in May but not one year ol until July... Advise needed


There are no real rules CM nature doesnt do things by the book she may have this call then not do anything eles for say 6 months time will tell.Sometimes cats are bred before 1 year but thats only if they are constant calling,its dont for their health in that case.Dont worry time will tell.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> There are no real rules CM nature doesnt do things by the book she may have this call then not do anything eles for say 6 months time will tell.Sometimes cats are bred before 1 year but thats only if they are constant calling,its dont for their health in that case.Dont worry time will tell.


Thank you put my mind a rest ...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> There are no real rules CM nature doesnt do things by the book she may have this call then not do anything eles for say 6 months time will tell.Sometimes cats are bred before 1 year but thats only if they are constant calling,its dont for their health in that case.Dont worry time will tell.


Mai Tai went several months between her first and second calls. Pasha on the other hand is 6 months old and just had her third call, with only two weeks between 2nd and 3rd  I took Rosie to stud at 10 months on her fifth call.
They are all different and you just have to take things as they happen Cosmills


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> Mai Tai went several months between her first and second calls. Pasha on the other hand is 6 months old and just had her third call, with only two weeks between 2nd and 3rd  I took Rosie to stud at 10 months on her fifth call.
> They are all different and you just have to take things as they happen Cosmills


The waiting games being... Thankfully she is a big girl and in great condition so hopefully she will not lose to much condition with calling ... She is not shouting too much at the min just grumbling ... Suppose that could change lol


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I use acupressure on mine or I'd have to mate at 6-8 months usually which isn't something I'm willing to do and don't want them calling too many times before being mated either.
The first "kitten call" is generally pretty mild. 

Mine don't stop eating, though one will lose condition anyway. Periactin can help with appetite and also calm them down a bit overnight - doesn't work on all cats though


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> I use acupressure on mine or I'd have to mate at 6-8 months usually which isn't something I'm willing to do and don't want them calling too many times before being mated either.
> The first "kitten call" is generally pretty mild.
> 
> Mine don't stop eating, though one will lose condition anyway. Periactin can help with appetite and also calm them down a bit overnight - doesn't work on all cats though


Have you got a link sc to show how its done?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> I use acupressure on mine or I'd have to mate at 6-8 months usually which isn't something I'm willing to do and don't want them calling too many times before being mated either.
> The first "kitten call" is generally pretty mild.
> 
> Mine don't stop eating, though one will lose condition anyway. Periactin can help with appetite and also calm them down a bit overnight - doesn't work on all cats though


Thanks SC will look at Periactin ... . I would be interested to hear about the acupressure


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Thanks SC will look at Periactin ... . I would be interested to hear about the acupressure


to put you finger around unknown territory


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> to put you finger around unknown territory


Ohhhhhhhhh nar couldn't do that ....


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> don't want them calling *too many times* before being mated either.


May I just ask what number app. we are talking about?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Most breeders like to mate on the 3rd call, allowing them to go over risks Pyo.

So with my girl who started at 14 weeks, she'd have had her 3rd call at 5 months. I held her off until 12 months, though with her size and condition could have been mated at 10 months without issue.

Will dig up the links for the acupressure, and a video I made (which I had to remove from youtube)
Others call it kitty masturbation lol

ETA: directions at bottom of this link 
http://www.messybeast.com/catmassage.htm


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Ah I see. Personally I am going to wait until 4-5th heat. I don't think pyo is as common in cats as we make it out to be so am not particularly worried about that (ETA: this is based on my extensive conversation with one of the top veterenarians in my country regarding various diseases, conditions and disorders). Acupressure sounds really interesting, I'll need to read up on it.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

HeartofClass said:


> Ah I see. Personally I am going to wait until 4-5th heat. I don't think pyo is as common in cats as we make it out to be so am not particularly worried about that (ETA: this is based on my extensive conversation with one of the top veterenarians in my country regarding various diseases, conditions and disorders). Acupressure sounds really interesting, I'll need to read up on it.[/
> 
> Think it depends on said cats age and condition ... If my cat was old enuff and she was in good condition I see no reason why she could not be mated on the 3rd ... Personally I would not feel happy leaving her until the 5th if she was all of the above


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

HeartofClass said:


> Ah I see. Personally I am going to wait until 4-5th heat. I don't think pyo is as common in cats as we make it out to be.


Each to their own, I've known enough breeders and enough cats in my short time as a breeder to know it's not any where near rare enough for me to risk it.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Each to their own, I've known enough breeders and enough cats in my short time as a breeder to know it's not any where near rare enough for me to risk it.


Have to agree with SC .. Not worth the risk


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Exactly, each to their own - personally I find the risk factor of mating an under-developed cat both physically and mentally greater than the risk of pyo - but of course, that goes for my breed, my cat and my personal beliefs, which are again on what I have read, what I have seen, experiences and things I have been told by the DVM specialist and other breeders that I personally know. That is why with my girl I am going to wait until 4-5th heat/or until she is at least 18 months old.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Peaches had only just had her 3rd call at 18 months this is the girl whos just had the section.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I really wish someone could physically show me how to apply the accupressure. I'm terrified of doing some damage, or being damaged by the cat herself!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> I really wish someone could physically show me how to apply the accupressure. I'm terrified of doing some damage, or being damaged by the cat herself!


maybe an accupressure session at the next show carly!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Peaches had only just had her 3rd call at 18 months this is the girl whos just had the section.


And you would have thought that was perfect... Big girl , super condition and it ends up in a section ... Poor baby girl ... ..

We will have to see how Rosie goes... Good news is that she had eaten overnight and had breaky.. She is abit more full on this morning but not over yowling, Mr D is looking very amused lol


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> And you would have thought that was perfect... Big girl , super condition and it ends up in a section ... Poor baby girl ... ..
> 
> We will have to see how Rosie goes... Good news is that she had eaten overnight and had breaky.. She is abit more full on this morning but not over yowling, Mr D is looking very amused lol


Thats what i thought too cm.

Lol all experience for you cm.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Ah I just realized I haven't even answered OP's initial question. My girl does tend to eat a lot less while on call, for the first day or two especially she will only have a few bites. I guess they are all different.



Cosmills said:


> Just done a big of working out, and am worried ... She may have a her third call in May but not one year ol until July... Advise needed


About this - (as has already been said) it may go completely different from the way you expect it to be, even if at the moment she seems like she's started off a bit early. Between my girl's first and second heat there was 2 months, between her second and third - almost 8 months passed.

Question - does GCCF not have a set minimum age rule for breeding a girl?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

HeartofClass said:


> Ah I just realized I haven't even answered OP's initial question. My girl does tend to eat a lot less while on call, for the first day or two especially she will only have a few bites. I guess they are all different.
> 
> About this - (as has already been said) it may go completely different from the way you expect it to be, even if at the moment she seems like she's started off a bit early. Between my girl's first and second heat there was 2 months, between her second and third - almost 8 months passed.
> 
> ...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't think the GCCF does have a guideline, and to be honest I don't think one age will do across all breeds. Quite a few Siamese and Oriental females are more than ready to go to stud at 10-11 months, but that's certainly not the case with Persians and other slower maturing breeds, many of whom haven't even called by 1.

http://www.gccfcats.org/pdf/BreedingPolicy.pdf

BTW if the Manx came along now I suspect it might not get recognition.

(there is a handsome but somewhat out of focus Havana in this document - one of my favourite breeds)

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wish I could say that about my fast maturing Persians!All of mine have started calling between 9 and 10 months, and they're strong calls! Gabby's on her 4th, and she's not even a year old yet!

It's also worth noting that you're likely to increase her calling if you pen her by a boy, and distress both. He'll lose condition as he will smell her and can't get to her, and she'll call more strongly for the same reason.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Where I register it is forbidden -not even just a guidline- to bring girls to studs before the age of 12 months, that is why I was curious.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Wish I could say that about my fast maturing Persians!All of mine have started calling between 9 and 10 months, and they're strong calls! Gabby's on her 4th, and she's not even a year old yet!
> 
> It's also worth noting that you're likely to increase her calling if you pen her by a boy, and distress both. He'll lose condition as he will smell her and can't get to her, and she'll call more strongly for the same reason.


Thanks carly87... He is more amused that anything today ,He has spent most of his time alseep and she has too. She only start when she hears me , she seems more relaxed today and is eating really well, something I was worried about ...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> I don't think the GCCF does have a guideline, and to be honest I don't think one age will do across all breeds. Quite a few Siamese and Oriental females are more than ready to go to stud at 10-11 months, but that's certainly not the case with Persians and other slower maturing breeds, many of whom haven't even called by 1.
> 
> http://www.gccfcats.org/pdf/BreedingPolicy.pdf
> 
> ...


Saved me a job... Was gonna luck that up later ... Thx


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

HeartofClass said:


> Where I register it is forbidden -not even just a guidline- to bring girls to studs before the age of 12 months, that is why I was curious.


Thanks goodness the GCCF don't make that ruling - or can you vary it with a vet's letter? The only sensible thing to do, in my view, with a well-grown maiden queen on her 4th call at 10 months is to mate her.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Wish I could say that about my fast maturing Persians!All of mine have started calling between 9 and 10 months, and they're strong calls! Gabby's on her 4th, and she's not even a year old yet!
> 
> It's also worth noting that you're likely to increase her calling if you pen her by a boy, and distress both. He'll lose condition as he will smell her and can't get to her, and she'll call more strongly for the same reason.


And my Oriental girl is on her second at just under a year - all cats are unique.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thanks goodness the GCCF don't make that ruling - or can you vary it with a vet's letter?.


That's how it works here, girls mated young or back to back sooner than the allowed 2 litters per year can be overridden by a vets letter stating it's in the cats best health interests to be mated.

Rules or guidelines are all well and good, but there must be room for allowances to me made for the health of the cats. 
Am glad my associations view it that way.

Forgot to multi quote my reply, the comment about being scared of hurting the girl with acupressure, I really don't see how you can. 
It's just an indent below the tail next to the anus that is pressed gently, you aren't inserting anything into the vagina which could cause damage.
The risk is to yourself, not scruffing her properly and getting swatted - but you learn to move out the way fast lol


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> That's how it works here, girls mated young or back to back sooner than the allowed 2 litters per year can be overridden by a vets letter stating it's in the cats best health interests to be mated.
> 
> Rules or guidelines are all well and good, but there must be room for allowances to me made for the health of the cats.
> Am glad my associations view it that way.
> ...


It is interesting tho ... Not something I would be comfortable doing just yet . I don't like filling my cats with drugs so its a good alternative.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> <snip>
> Forgot to multi quote my reply, the comment about being scared of hurting the girl with acupressure, I really don't see how you can.
> It's just an indent below the tail next to the anus that is pressed gently, you aren't inserting anything into the vagina which could cause damage.
> *The risk is to yourself, not scruffing her properly and getting swatted - but you learn to move out the way fast lol*


Just like a stud has to...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

But how long do you press, and what kind of pressure are we talking?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You press firmly enough to get a reaction, hard to explain how hard or soft that is. 

It's done until she 'huffs' which is anywhere from 5-20 seconds. Done every 10-15 mins over an hour, I do it in the afternoon and they settle well for the night. Then repeat 12 hours later for another hour and they're off call completely by afternoon.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

And what kind of reaction are you looking for? A scream, a growl, a bigger presentation, a shiver? And is it directly on the same level as the anus, just slightly off to one side? Sorry to be so graphic, but I can't see the vids, so imagine you're doint this with your eyes closed. I really don't want to do this incorrectly.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Im not sure either reading the link it looks like its above the anus or a bit to the side above.?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If I've got it right, just to the side of the anus you will feel a depression - opposite side to the way the girl has flicked her tail. I tried it with Rosie yesterday and got the 'huff' reaction and she did settle for the night. I might just be lucky as she's right at the end of her call anyway though


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Lynn, I'm going to pester you for graphic detail now, you know that, right?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> If I've got it right, just to the side of the anus you will feel a depression - opposite side to the way the girl has flicked her tail. I tried it with Rosie yesterday and got the 'huff' reaction and she did settle for the night. I might just be lucky as she's right at the end of her call anyway though


how do you know what side? Is it always that side? And what is it that makes it that spot soo good?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> how do you know what side? Is it always that side? And what is it that makes it that spot soo good?


Just opposite to the side she is holding her tail - it's easier to get at!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Just opposite to the side she is holding her tail - it's easier to get at!


Oh,is the this spot at each side then?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Oh,is the this spot at each side then?


Yes. One each side.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Yes. One each side.


Cool,do you just press or wiggle finger (oh god sorry)


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Cool,do you just press or wiggle finger (oh god sorry)


Just make sure it doesn't slip!!!! hmy:

I am really pleased to get this clarification on the exact spot as I want to try this with Darcy!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Just do it when you're alone  :blush2:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Chiantina said:


> Just make sure it doesn't slip!!!! hmy:


Doesn't bear thinking about! :crying:  :cursing: :cryin: :shocked: :eek6: :blush2:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> Just do it when you're alone  :blush2:


Really? Not in front of the children?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Cool,do you just press or wiggle finger (oh god sorry)


Some girls do enjoy a little vibration 

I tend to hold them with head in my direction and then press the left (to me) side as I'm left handed. It doesn't matter which side though.

Well done Lynne, took me a little while to get the technique just right.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

Now I feel like trying that too with Mina.. I'm fairly sure my friends and family would have me committed if they knew what I'm up to when I'm alone.:lol:


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Has my thread been getting a little rude while I have been away girls lol lol ... Looks like a few ppl are going to give it a go ... Just one question by bringing them out of call with this, does it reduce the risk of pyo because they are not in call for the full period ... Hope that makes sense


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If head is towards you, doesn't that increase the likelihood of getting swatted?


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