# Breeding pedigrees cats



## Mialey (Mar 19, 2020)

If My female great grandparents are related to my male cat parents would this bring complications of breeding this cats ?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Your cats shouldn't be related at all unless you are an experienced line breeder and only breeding to develop something specific in the breed. 

In my view there is no need to line breed anyway, but that's a personal opinion.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

What do you mean by related? Are they the same cats?


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## Mialey (Mar 19, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> What do you mean by related? Are they the same cats?


My Female cat father side great grandparents are my male cat grand parents


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Mialey said:


> My Female cat father side great grandparents are my male cat grand parents


Are they long-lived healthy cats? Have you checked how inbred any kittens would be? You need much more than 4 generations to do that - I have at least 10 for all my cats - but if you are lucky you can use Pawpeds. It's better for some breeds than others.

My original girl's father was one of her maternal great grandfathers. However he was already about 10 when she was born, and eventually succumbed to kidney disease at 14 1/2. Those are the right sort of genes to hopefully double up on. Obviously she went to outcrosses for her two litters.


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## Mialey (Mar 19, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> Are they long-lived healthy cats? Have you checked how inbred any kittens would be? You need much more than 4 generations to do that - I have at least 10 for all my cats - but if you are lucky you can use Pawpeds. It's better for some breeds than others.
> 
> My original girl's father was one of her maternal great grandfathers. However he was already about 10 when she was born, and eventually succumbed to kidney disease at 14 1/2. Those are the right sort of genes to hopefully double up on. Obviously she went to outcrosses for her two litters.


both cats are meant to be PKD negative , I have just ordered swabs for check that myself so I'm 100% sure as I was told only they are pkd negative but no proof of it also going to get rdAc test done (not sure is there anything else I can check as I have Persian cats) . There haven't been any inbreeding previously on lines .


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Why would you want to inbreed now? There's no good reason to


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Mialey said:


> both cats are meant to be PKD negative , I have just ordered swabs for check that myself so I'm 100% sure as I was told only they are pkd negative but no proof of it also going to get rdAc test done (not sure is there anything else I can check as I have Persian cats) . There haven't been any inbreeding previously on lines .


Persians have an early onset form of PRA. It is not rdAc.

The Langford website lists all breeds with their appropriate tests. Do have a look.
https://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagnostic-laboratories/services/cat-genetic-testing/

There is guidance concerning inbreeding on the GCCF website. My cats did have pedigrees with repeated cats but I never went above single figure percentage inbreeding.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> Why would you want to inbreed now? There's no good reason to


I'm sure if you look at your cat's pedigrees far enough back you will find inbreeding. It's not an absolute no, it depends on the cats, the degree of inbreeding, and the size of the genetic pool.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Mialey said:


> both cats are meant to be PKD negative , I have just ordered swabs for check that myself so I'm 100% sure as I was told only they are pkd negative but no proof of it also going to get rdAc test done (not sure is there anything else I can check as I have Persian cats) . There haven't been any inbreeding previously on lines .


This is far too vague about health. How long have their parents lived? Their grand parents? And so on. Strongly suggest you look in Pawpeds at the Persian database and see if you can construct the pedigree for at least 8 generations of any kittens that would result from the mating. If the cats are not there you can get them added, see https://pawpeds.com/db/?a=i&p=per


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

What does the Breeding Policy say?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

From the GCCF general Breeding Policy:

Inbreeding
4.4 "Inbreeding is an inclusive term covering many different breeding combinations and degrees of relationship –
including the more distant, less intense; the latter is sometimes referred to as “line-breeding”. In-breeding is consistently more efficient in eliminating heterozygous (varying and diverse) genotypes and increasing homozygous
(same) genotypes, thereby ensuring a greater likelihood that kittens will closely resemble their parents, which is the essence of any breed of pedigree cat. Used here the term does not mean close, purposeful, inbreeding of closely related cats (brother/sister, father daughter), but rather the moderate form that results from the mating of not too distantly related (but not directly related) cats (first cousins, half brother/half sister, second cousins, etc)......."

4.6 .....Ideally when calculating COIs the highest possible number of generations should be used, if possible back to foundation cats, as this gives the most accurate figure. A degree of inbreeding between 1% and 25% over a pedigree of at least eight generations should be regarded as perfectly acceptable; COIs of over 25% should normally only be undertaken by experienced breeders with a specific reason for carrying out such a mating, they must be sure that they have researched the pedigrees and ancestors of both prospective parents very carefully and that they are confident that both lines have been sufficiently tested for there to be minimal risk of
defective genetic traits. It is highly inadvisable to breed two cats with resulting inbreeding coefficients of 50% in the offspring, no matter how well the parental lines may have been tested for genetic anomalies.(In devising recommended in-breeding coefficients the GCCF Genetics Committee has referred to the guidance provided in
Chapter 6 (Breeding Practices) and Chapter 7 (Inbreeding) of **Robinson’s Genetics for cat Breeders and Veteri-
narians” along with other sources of suggested inbreeding ratios).

4.7 The following quote from Professor Bateson’s report into dog breeding provides sound advice to novice
breeders: “Avoid very close inbreeding. Grand-daughter mated to grand-father is too close in my view. A good rule of thumb is that if the pedigrees of the potential mates include more than two (common) grandparents, avoid that mating.”

4.8 If breeders can access details of a cat’s ancestors going back less than eight generations, they should work to lower maximum percentages of inbreeding depending on the number of generations used in the calculation,(eg. 1 – 20% where only six generations are used; 1 - 17% for five generations). In normal circumstances and con-
sidering ancestors to at
least the eighth generation, it would generally not be considered sound, acceptable practice to mate cats where the resulting degree of inbreeding would exceed 40% (and the absolute maximum cut-off is 50% as stated
above), where less than eight generations a lower percentage should be used (e.g. not more than 35% in the case of six generation pedigrees; not more than 33% for five generations). Breeders should use this consideration as a key part of the decision making process when considering any mating....."


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

This is a really bad time to be breeding full stop I would have thought, what with questions surrounding food and litter availabilities, delayed deliveries and some vets in some places closing to all but emergencies and potentially other countries following suit.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

moomoowawa said:


> This is a really bad time to be breeding full stop I would have thought, what with questions surrounding food and litter availabilities, delayed deliveries and some vets in some places closing to all but emergencies and potentially other countries following suit.


Speaking to breeder friends, most of us have a girl or two in kitten, having been mated before any of us knew how bad things would become. But certainly I won't be having any further litters this year.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

What are the pedigree names of the cats that you are planning to breed, and the grandparents? I may be able to advise.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

moomoowawa said:


> This is a really bad time to be breeding full stop I would have thought, what with questions surrounding food and litter availabilities, delayed deliveries and some vets in some places closing to all but emergencies and potentially other countries following suit.


I have a litter here now, conceived long before Covid-19 raised its ugly head. However I am not going to be breeding any further litters until this is sorted out, which could be next year!


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

Tigermoon said:


> I have a litter here now, conceived long before Covid-19 raised its ugly head. However I am not going to be breeding any further litters until this is sorted out, which could be next year!


Yeah! Where I am vets are stopping neutering/spaying and vaccines :-/


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

All my girls had the superlorin implant, no way could we have litters when I am NHS frontline staff.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lillytheunicorn said:


> All my girls had the superlorin implant, no way could we have litters when I am NHS frontline staff.


You are lucky none were pregnant or had kittens


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