# My mouse has cancer



## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

One of my mice has a lump, the vet has said it's cancer. Now I'm just waiting until it's time to take her back to be put to sleep 

It's such a shock, and it's growing quite quickly. 

Can someone please tell me how rodents are put to sleep at the vets? I've read different things like they have to inject the heart, or they gas them? Don't they just inject under the skin?


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

You can't diagnose cancer by just looking at a lump...if the mouse is in good condition otherwise, you could have it removed. Cancer in rats and mice is rare, most lumps are benign.


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## AnnB (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear your mouse has a tumour. Quite a few of mine have had tumours too but they cope remarkably well with them until they start to ulcerate/bleed. I've never had a tumour removed but my vet removed a tumour on his own mouse and it grew back sadly.

It would probably be better discussing with your vet, their methods of euthanization.


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

I don't know, that's just what the vet told me. It's near her genitals and doesn't look like they could easily remove it without damaging something? They said it can't be removed. Should I get another opinion? I was just accepting that she won't have long left, are you saying it's benign and I might be able to have it removed?


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

I know I can ring and ask the vet myself, but I just wanted to know the experiences of other rodent owners so I know what options there are


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I always ask the vet to give them gas before they inject the needle as its very painful if they don't get gas.


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

Thanks blade100, I'll ring around and see if they can offer that method. It's probably the best choice because she's 1 year old. I don't know actually I think I'll get the advice of a different vet first. I'm so upset


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Which vets is it rainstars? Round here different vets do it differently, sadly I've probably used them all at one time or another . As far as removing the lump goes, personally with a mouse I wouldn't, mouse lumps tend to be much more likely to reoccur than rat lumps, older mice tend not to cope as well with the anaesthetic too


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

tdm I've sent you a PM.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

I've had a lump removed from one of my mice, who was under a year old at the time. Pixie coped really well with the operation, but in less than a fortnight she had two more tumours growing that grew even faster than her original one 

Mice cope very well with tumours - I've had a lot of my mice (both male and female) develop tumours who have still been able to run around as normal right up until the end. Some mice might end up with the skin on the tumour tearing or ulcerating easily as the tumour grows which can lead to infection while others may stop eating and drinking and lose weight which is usually means the end has come.

As for getting them pts, here is something that my own vet, who I trust and have had looked after over 100 mice said on another forum. She injects my mice into their tummy and not one of my mice has been in any pain, and she and her colleagues will use a little bit of anaesthetic in a coffee jar to put any nervous mice to sleep before the injection. I'd use either again method in future:



> It's not true that it is excruciatingly painful to have pentobarb injected into an organ.
> 
> In animals with collapsed circulation and very small animals, it is often the only way. I use that route often for small furries, some birds and ancient animals - it's slower than putting it into the vein but is less stressful for the pet than trying for ages to shave legs, find veins, and put holes all over the poor animal.
> 
> ...





spoiled_rat said:


> You can't diagnose cancer by just looking at a lump...if the mouse is in good condition otherwise, you could have it removed. Cancer in rats and mice is rare, most lumps are benign.


Actually with mice it is the opposite  Most tumours are malignant, as a result of inbreeding in labs and such in cancer research - which incidentally is where a majority of pet mice originated


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Actually with mice it is the opposite  Most tumours are malignant, as a result of inbreeding in labs and such in cancer research - which incidentally is where a majority of pet mice originated


Inbreeding does not cause health issues, it only brings them to the surface for you to select for or against. Most people in the mouse fancy agree that very few lines have lab stock in them, it's exceedingly rare, and mice were bred as pets before labs took an interest in them as research models.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

spoiled_rat said:


> Inbreeding does not cause health issues, it only brings them to the surface for you to select for or against. Most people in the mouse fancy agree that very few lines have lab stock in them, it's exceedingly rare, and mice were bred as pets before labs took an interest in them as research models.


I agree and know (having worked in biological and genetic sciences for a number of years) that inbreeding does not cause problems, but it does allow you to specifically breed for a health problem as they would do in laboratories (e.g. to get tumours.) There are numerous lines which are stated as originating within laboratories which no mouse fancier can deny, and those lines will have ended up within pet lines due to breeding by people that don't know or care about breeding properly. And given that a majority of pet mice are likely to originate from rodent farms, where health problems are abundant and breeding is indiscriminate, it is no wonder as well that even those that do not originate from lab lines end up with problems such as tumours (ETA - mice also have MMTV, "mouse mammary tumour virus" which produces malignant tumours [I had not mentioned this at the time I posted this originally as I couldn't remember the name of it.]) However, as interesting as it is to discuss this, it is completely off topic - the topic being that rainstars has asked for help with her mouse, which we should be getting back to and should be the only point of discussion.


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

Just a quick update: She's having out of cage time at the moment ripping up some paper while playing with her sister like she normally does. 

It is getting slightly bigger every day though, very soon it may stop her from going to the toilet and it's touching the floor when she sits or climbs on things so we're thinking of having her put to sleep tomorrow or Monday at the latest.  

I'm upset that people are questioning if it's actually is cancer and debating it. I am interested in the topic but I was mostly just wondering about how she will be put to sleep. I did read that most tumours are malignant but I don't know if that's true or not. All I know is either way she won't be here for much longer. 

Thanks to everyone for answering though, I'll let you know how it goes. 

'thedogsmother' lives in my town and she has given me info about different vets. Hopefully they will use gas and then inject her.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

rainstars said:


> Just a quick update: She's having out of cage time at the moment ripping up some paper while playing with her sister like she normally does.
> 
> It is getting slightly bigger every day though, very soon it may stop her from going to the toilet and it's touching the floor when she sits or climbs on things so we're thinking of having her put to sleep tomorrow or Monday at the latest.
> 
> ...


Whatever you do for this girl will be with her best interests in mind, I have no doubts that you will do what's right for her (((hugs)))


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

rainstars said:


> Just a quick update: She's having out of cage time at the moment ripping up some paper while playing with her sister like she normally does.
> 
> It is getting slightly bigger every day though, very soon it may stop her from going to the toilet and it's touching the floor when she sits or climbs on things so we're thinking of having her put to sleep tomorrow or Monday at the latest.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry to hear about your poorly mouse, I'm sure TDM will help you all she can she is a lovely member.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

rainstars said:


> Just a quick update: She's having out of cage time at the moment ripping up some paper while playing with her sister like she normally does.
> 
> It is getting slightly bigger every day though, very soon it may stop her from going to the toilet and it's touching the floor when she sits or climbs on things so we're thinking of having her put to sleep tomorrow or Monday at the latest.
> 
> ...


Aww hun I'm sorry that it's come so quickly for your little mousie  You'll do the right thing for her and she will have a lifetime of happy memories with you to take with her if you do have to let her go this weekend.

TDM has mentioned how good her vet is to me before, speak to them before hand and ask them about gas so that you don't need to be even more upset having to talk to them about that on the day because they will already know what you want x

Enjoy your mousie while you still have her hun x


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## Nikkitta (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't have any advice I'm afraid but my sympathies are with you.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I am sorry, thinking of you & your little mouse x


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Oh hun am so sorry!! I am thinking of you whatever you decide.


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

We had a little more time with her but she is being put to sleep tomorrow, the appointment is at 3.15


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

rainstars said:


> We had a little more time with her but she is being put to sleep tomorrow, the appointment is at 3.15


I'm really sorry  You did what you could and she sounds like you have been keeping her very happy and comfortable xx


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Hugs to you, just remember you have given her a lovely home with lots of love.
And now you'll be helping her to cross to the bridge with no more pain or suffering.
Xx


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

blade100 said:


> Hugs to you, just remember you have given her a lovely home with lots of love.
> And now you'll be helping her to cross to the bridge with no more pain or suffering.
> Xx


We didn't take her, I couldn't do it. That's the thing, she isn't suffering and she doesn't seem to be in any pain - she's playful and happy. That's why it's so difficult. I noticed she was still able to 'go to the toilet' so I gave he one last night of out of cage time, I've been up all night and I'm taking her to be put to sleep this morning. It was important for me to find that right time both for her and for me. I'm not going to keep delaying it, it really will be today. I'm glad that she isn't suffering I suppose but it didn't seem right yesterday.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

If she's still able to walk, go to the toilet, eating, drinking etc, and the tumour is intact, then let your heart guide you to when the time is right, they can walk round with enormous lumps for months sometimes. I'm not saying today isn't the right time, I'm just saying you will know in your heart when the time is right ((hugs))


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

She's been put to sleep. Everything that could have gone wrong today did and then when we got home from the vets we noticed blood dripping from her nose, her mouth was open and had blood on the corner too - what the hell did they do to her? Is that normal?  I don't think they used gas first and I feel so guilty, I have a migraine from crying so much.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

rainstars said:


> She's been put to sleep. Everything that could have gone wrong today did and then when we got home from the vets we noticed blood dripping from her nose, her mouth was open and had blood on the corner too - what the hell did they do to her? Is that normal?  I don't think they used gas first and I feel so guilty, I have a migraine from crying so much.


If you went to D*******s they will have used gas Hun! it could be that she bit her tongue or had internal issues that hadn't been obvious. Please don't torture yourself like this, the alternative would have been a horrendous way to go. It's natural to feel guilt because you naturally want someone to blame for this, simply because it is so unfair, but honestly you did what was kindest. 
A lot of animals take one last gasp when they pass, so the open mouth isn't a sign of pain, she will have been asleep at the time (((Hugs)))


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

TDM is right hun, they often open their mouth and eyes up as their body gets rid of any energy left in their muscles after the injection and that could also account for the blood if her teeth have bitten into her tongue as it's happened. It isn't anything you or the vet has done wrong so please don't beat yourself up. I'm really sorry xx


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

I'm sorry for the utterly depressing posts! I'm sure it was quick and the vet was lovely. I'm really grateful for the support from you all on here. x

Goodbye Poppy mouse!


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