# Will not walk with halti head collar



## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

hoping for some suggestions. Willow has started pulling on lead.... she doesn't actually go on lead very much as we normally drive out to somewhere. But recently my husband is taking her on walks locally. We brought a halti head collar which worked really well the first time we put her on it... and then from the second time she started pawing at her nose to try and get it off.... and the third time she gets out side does a few paces then refuses to budge and just lays down. Last time he took it with him and after they had been to the dog park and played ball he thought he would see if it would easier to get her to walk with it on just because she was tired. She took a few steps and then laid down.
Any suggestions as to how to get her used to this? It works wonders but she is just refusing to walk now.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

How did you introduce it?

Sounds like you just stuck it on and went for a walk. 

Stop using it; she is clearly very uncomfortable and probably a bit distressed.

Perhaps try a front clip harness, or just some general training rather than a gadget.

Whatever you use, you have to introduce it gradually otherwise you get the situation you are in now - one unhappy dog!


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> How did you introduce it?
> 
> Sounds like you just stuck it on and went for a walk.
> 
> ...


That's how I read it too just stuck it on and went for a walk. I agree with harness and general training.


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

Yes we did just put it on, if you mean introduce then yes we kind of did that. I did read the instructions and we planned to walk for 5 mins with it on and then 5 mins with it off. Are these not considered a good training tool? I understood they was


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree with the above too, she is obviously very unhappy wearing it, we used a figure of 8 lead for my parents collie due to her pulling she was ok to put on at home and would walk to the fields but wouldn't come back when called when ready to go home as she knew the lead was going on. We now use ancol happy to heal harness and that works for her and us


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

Nonnie said:


> How did you introduce it?
> 
> Sounds like you just stuck it on and went for a walk.
> 
> ...


I had no idea these were classed as gadgets! She does have a harness... she has always been walked on a harness. This was meant to be a training tool


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

rachelholmes said:


> I agree with the above too, she is obviously very unhappy wearing it, we used a figure of 8 lead for my parents collie due to her pulling she was ok to put on at home and would walk to the fields but wouldn't come back when called when ready to go home as she knew the lead was going on. We now use ancol happy to heal harness and that works for her and us


Thank you I will look into this


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

WillowT said:


> I had no idea these were classed as gadgets! She does have a harness... she has always been walked on a harness. This was meant to be a training tool


Tool/gadget, same thing.

Still has to be introduced properly and positively. In the home. Over a period of time. I thought they came with a pamphlet that tells you how to train your dog to accept wearing one. Perhaps they dont bother anymore.

Of course, you dont need anything other than a collar/bog standard harness and lead and plenty of time, patience and consistency. And treats.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2017)

WillowT said:


> Yes we did just put it on, if you mean introduce then yes we kind of did that. I did read the instructions and we planned to walk for 5 mins with it on and then 5 mins with it off. Are these not considered a good training tool? I understood they was


The idea of introducing headcollars gradually is to start in the house without going for a walk with it on. Not just stick it on the dog and go for a walk.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

WillowT said:


> I had no idea these were classed as gadgets! She does have a harness... she has always been walked on a harness. This was meant to be a training tool


You can still do loose lead training with the harness.

With Jack I would just stop if he started to pull. Wait until he took a step back and then say "thank you" and "walk on".

He soon learned that pulling stopped the walk and him giving a bit of slack back meant getting going again.

I don't expect him to walk to heel as such, just not to drag me along!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I find the instructions mine came with ridiculous tbh. 5 minutes is WAY too long a time to start with. For most dogs simply having it put on is too much initially. My last dog accepted a halti no problem, had the occasional swipe at it but mostly ignored it for years. Spen on the other hand will not walk on a head collar despite months of desensitizing. He's fine with it on with no lead attached but the slightest pressure on it and we're Steve Irwin wrestling a crocodile. He'll injure himself and me in his attempts to remove it. Jean Donaldson has a good vid on youtube for introducing them (hers is a gentle leader but same applies) and Chirag Patels muzzle training method can also be adapted easily to use with a head collar.

I'm torn on head collars personally. On the one hand I find them incredibly useful at times but on the other I'm a bit dubious about desensitizing a dog to something they obviously dislike just so we can use it and say it's the kind option.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Following on from Sarah's post I'm going to be awkward, sorry, lol.

Halti and headcollar aren't interchangeable words...haltis are a type of headcollar, but then choke chains are a type of collar and most people wouldn't classify them the same either.

I'm not being pedantic for no reason though.

For some dogs any headcollar is an aversive tool because they're just never going to be happy with something on their face - but haltis are actually designed to be aversive training tools, that's why they tighten when the dog pulls.

The halti is actually doing exactly what it's designed to, being uncomfortable when your dog pulls, so the dog avoids that sensation -yours has just gone further than you wanted by just not walking at all rather than avoiding the pain by walking closer to you.

You could try desensitising her to a fixed headcollar, but, having used a halti might mean that it doesn't work.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

No, not all head collars are created equal. I think for some dogs though it's simply the thing on their face they don't like. Spen was introduced to a basket muzzle before any head collar and doesn't like that either. Will tolerate it but he'll also tolerate a head collar providing there's no pressure on it. Even the fixed ones he protests violently against the moment there's any pressure whatsoever on them.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2017)

Head halters are marketed as a “kind” training tool, but it’s really the dog who decides what is aversive or not. 
OP, your dog obviously finds the head collar highly aversive. I’d use another tool to help you achieve loose leash walking


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> No, not all head collars are created equal. I think for some dogs though it's simply the thing on their face they don't like. Spen was introduced to a basket muzzle before any head collar and doesn't like that either. Will tolerate it but he'll also tolerate a head collar providing there's no pressure on it. Even the fixed ones he protests violently against the moment there's any pressure whatsoever on them.


Yep, some dogs are just never going to be ok with something on their head.



ouesi said:


> Head halters are marketed as a "kind" training tool, but it's really the dog who decides what is aversive or not.
> OP, your dog obviously finds the head collar highly aversive. I'd use another tool to help you achieve loose leash walking


Haltis are aversive, even for dogs that tolerate them, the point of them is to tighten round the snout.

They're not like fixed ones that just sit there like a horse's halter.

So while yes, any dog can find a head collar aversive, haltis are designed to be.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2017)

tabulahrasa said:


> So while yes, any dog can find a head collar aversive, haltis are designed to be.


Ha ha  I agree with you about the design, but I also know a lot of "all positive" people who would shout you down for that comment. Because, you know, if that is true, it puts them in quite the pickle philosophically speaking.

There are also body harnesses that are by design aversive. The makers would argue 'till they're blue in the face that the design is not meant to be aversive, but when something is designed to tighten and make it uncomfortable enough to stop pulling, you can't deny the aversive factor.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Ha ha  I agree with you about the design, but I also know a lot of "all positive" people who would shout you down for that comment. Because, you know, if that is true, it puts them in quite the pickle philosophically speaking.
> 
> There are also body harnesses that are by design aversive. The makers would argue 'till they're blue in the face that the design is not meant to be aversive, but when something is designed to tighten and make it uncomfortable enough to stop pulling, you can't deny the aversive factor.


Haha, I was ridiculed on a positive training group for saying that halti's are aversive. I just didn't introduce it right apparently lol.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2017)

Sarah1983 said:


> Haha, I was ridiculed on a positive training group for saying that halti's are aversive. I just didn't introduce it right apparently lol.


Oh we've been ridiculed on here for saying they're aversive depending on the dog


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Haha, I was ridiculed on a positive training group for saying that halti's are aversive. I just didn't introduce it right apparently lol.


Because they tighten to give a gentle reassuring hug?......

In all honesty I'd rather not use a headcollar at all because I can't see even a fixed one being pleasant when they pull, but it's not deliberately aversive and Brock doesn't care about wearing it, so I'm ok with doing what I need to.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> Because they tighten to give a gentle reassuring hug?......
> 
> In all honesty I'd rather not use a headcollar at all because I can't see even a fixed one being pleasant when they pull, but it's not deliberately aversive and Brock doesn't care about wearing it, so I'm ok with doing what I need to.


Lol, of course they do 

Rupert never seemed to care about wearing a halti. He'd give the very occasional half hearted paw swipe but that was it. Spen on the other hand gets incredibly upset over anything on his face. I can't say he's even happy with a muzzle on but we practice it now and then so that if he's ever in a situation where one is needed it's at least familiar. He'll tolerate it but doesn't like it. Rupe loved his! lol


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Oh we've been ridiculed on here for saying they're aversive depending on the dog


I remember, a while ago, you telling me that a head collar or a muzzle on Lola would be like a huge punishment for her, as she's so head shy. I hadn't thought of that, but as soon as you said it, it made so much sense. The poor girl would be so upset with anything on her head


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

Thank you to all the people that gave me some positive feedback.... rather than just try and shoot me down!
We have only used this twice and haven't actually used it for a few months but I haven't been on here lately and had been meaning to post and ask regarding it. We have actually just been doing more heel work rather than pursue it as we are not horrible dog owners. 
Of course halti is the make..... but yes it is a type of head collar and I am sure there are a lot of other types too. Not sure why this needed to be pointed out. 
Thank you guys


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2017)

WillowT said:


> Thank you to all the people that gave me some positive feedback.... rather than just try and shoot me down!
> We have only used this twice and haven't actually used it for a few months but I haven't been on here lately and had been meaning to post and ask regarding it. We have actually just been doing more heel work rather than pursue it as we are not horrible dog owners.
> Of course halti is the make..... but yes it is a type of head collar and I am sure there are a lot of other types too. Not sure why this needed to be pointed out.
> Thank you guys


Some dogs just don't like head collars. With Buddy I let him sniff it then treat, then eventually I had him put his nose through to get a treat but didn't fasten it, eventually I had it on him fastened with a treat, after a lot of desensitizing slowly he was happy with it on and associated it with head collar means fun walkies.


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