# Kennel Owner Prosecuted - Loretta Bastin



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just cross posting this from another forum, the more people know about this *person* (scum of the earth) the better.........

*Loretta Bastin - Prosecuted for Overbreeding....*


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Obviously this person is a puppy farmer. But that aside, is it really a criminal offence to have more than two litters of puppies from one bitch in 12 months? That sounds like a totally counter-productive law to me, it's just inviting people to sell them unregistered or with false pedigrees.

Liz


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't know if it's against the law, but you aren't able to register two litters less than 12 months apart with the KC. Puppy farmers get round that by producing a fashionable cross one season, pedigree litter the next. People will always find a way to get round these things, but the more people that are successfully prosecuted, the better, and they need to start making the consequences harsher, rather than a brief slap on the wrists and a cash fine that won't deter them.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't know if it's against the law, but you aren't able to register two litters less than 12 months apart with the KC.


I think they have changed that so you can.

In most breeding establishment licences given by local councils, it states that a dog cannot have a litter within 12 months of the last one. Its not against the law as such, but in breach of contract.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

As far as I'm aware, it's only if you are a licensed breeder with a council that breeding a bitch twice within a 12 month period is wrong.

The KC will quite happily register 2 litters from the same bitch within a 12 months. I'm often amazed when I flick through the BRS at how many so called 'top' breeders are breeding back to back litters, one bitch had whelped her 6 litters before the age of 5


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Chuff, and there was I happily naieve!!! I wish the KC would grow a pair sometimes and tighten up it's act rather than just take the cash


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

I think there has to be a good reason for the KC to register back to back litters. I don't think your allowed to kc register them if you do it just for the sake of doing it . Harley's breeder had harley's litter - kc reg. then another one six months later and they weren't registered and apparently the kc had refused to register them because they were from the same bitch. x


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

shazalhasa said:


> As far as I'm aware, it's only if you are a licensed breeder with a council that breeding a bitch twice within a 12 month period is wrong.
> 
> The KC will quite happily register 2 litters from the same bitch within a 12 months. I'm often amazed when I flick through the BRS at how many so called 'top' breeders are breeding back to back litters, one bitch had whelped her 6 litters before the age of 5


Wow i didnt know that, that's actually disgusting and this is supposed to be the society aiming to better our dogs  x


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

When we decided that we were going to breed our Coco, a few people suggested that we become a member of the Accredited Breeder Scheme and for a while we thought that would be a good thing to do until we looked into it 

The first surprise was that you don't even need to have any breeding experience to become a member. The accolades don't really mean a thing either... Breeding experience accolade - more than 5 litters... encouraging the wrong sort of ethics. Breed Club accolade - you only need to join a breed club. Stud book accolade - ok so this could mean that a breeder is doing something right but there are shows that could make this easy enough, I've been to shows where there have only been 2 dogs in open class... any 1 other dog that had been in that class would get a stud book number by default 

From what we could see, there was nothing special and the more we looked into the kind of breeders who were members, the more we were put off.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

It depends, if a licenced or commercial breeder the KC will not register, if not, then they do, in part because it does depend on the individual case. All KC rules have to include the extremes for all breeds and all situations. If a bitch only has a season every 10 or 11 months, then this is enough time to recover from a litter. Also, there is mixed evidence and views on whether a back to back litter is inadvisable. There are no hard and fast rules. Back to back litters are believed to be better by many in the US. Indeed, the uterus deteriorates with every season, so they prefer to breed the litters while the uterus is at it's healthiest. The gap between litters is for recovery and it if it a long time between seasons (say 10/11 months), this should give plenty of time for recovery and in fact, would be no different from a bitch that cycles every 5/6 months and is allowed a season before being bred again.



> Wow i didnt know that, that's actually disgusting and this is supposed to be the society aiming to better our dogs


I'm not a huge fan of the KC, there is much more they could do, but I think it important to point out the realistic stance of their rules. They have to cater for all. For instance, the minimum age for breeding is 1 year old. Some would argue that they are irresponsible as that is too young. Well, in my breed it is - absolutely, but for a toy breed may not be unreasonable. Their rules do not take into account differences in breeds and need to encompass all. It is people who are in the wrong because they assume that because the KC will register a litter at 1 that it is OK, not the KC fault.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Stud book accolade - ok so this could mean that a breeder is doing something right but there are shows that could make this easy enough, I've been to shows where there have only been 2 dogs in open class... any 1 other dog that had been in that class would get a stud book number by default


I don't show, but have heard of this and I think this is where the show world could take a leaf out of the working world. Gaining a stud book number is very hard in Field Trial - really only the best dogs get it. The reason being that it judges will withold awards if they consider the dogs up to standard. It is not uncommon and means two things, there are no dogs being awarded by default and no dogs being put out of novice class before they are ready. Getting a run if a field trial is notoriously difficult anyway, and you need to be at open standard working test to even be ready to compete in novice trials. Awards are withheld in working tests too, although not as common, purely because of the large numbers entering (fields of 30 - 40 dogs is normal), and although under KC rules, stud dog numbers are not awarded in working tests anyway, but it is a bit of a mockery of the system that the showing world allows awards purely because of the lack of entries.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> The first surprise was that you don't even need to have any breeding experience to become a member. The accolades don't really mean a thing either... Breeding experience accolade - more than 5 litters... encouraging the wrong sort of ethics. :


You can't have it both ways - is it bad that the KC allows you to become an accredited breeder with no experience, or is it bad that the KC requires that you have bred 5 litters before you get the accredited breeders accolade?



shazalhasa said:


> Breed Club accolade - you only need to join a breed club. :


No, there's more to it than that. Each breed club committee has to designate a committee member whose job it is to monitor breeders _who are members of the breed club _to ensure that they are breeding responsibly.



shazalhasa said:


> Stud book accolade - ok so this could mean that a breeder is doing something right but there are shows that could make this easy enough, I've been to shows where there have only been 2 dogs in open class... any 1 other dog that had been in that class would get a stud book number by default :


Again, this is not quite right. The judge can and will withold placings if the dog is not good enough to win, irrespective of the size of the class. No dog should go through just by default. In addition, for most breeds with CC's, classes are huge and it is very difficult to win in the classes where stud book numbers are on offer. Border collies (our breed) are in stud book band E, which means we need a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in limit or open at championship shows to win a stud book number. These regularly have entries of 18 - 30 dogs and 18 - 30 bitches.



rocco33 said:


> I The reason being that it judges will withold awards if they consider the dogs up to standard.


And this happens in showing too - despite the fact that Natik will be on here in a minute to tell you that it's not true 

(Sorry Natik hun, couldn't resist that one!  Saved you a post there! xx)


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Originally Posted by rocco33
> I The reason being that it judges will withold awards if they consider the dogs up to standard.


Just noticed my obvious mistake 

I meant to say that judges will withhold awards if they consider the dogs NOT up to standard


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## Mollydoodle (Mar 10, 2010)

that is discusting and as you say the scum of the earth. those poor dogs and pups. hope she rots


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Just noticed my obvious mistake
> 
> I meant to say that judges will withhold awards if they consider the dogs NOT up to standard


S'ok hun - knew what you meant!


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> You can't have it both ways - is it bad that the KC allows you to become an accredited breeder with no experience, or is it bad that the KC requires that you have bred 5 litters before you get the accredited breeders accolade?


Both are bad. How can a breeder who's yet to have a litter be accredited ? accredited for what exactly ? Encouraging breeders to have more than 5 litters so they get a little badge next to their name is just encouraging the wrong sort of ethics.



Spellweaver said:


> No, there's more to it than that. Each breed club committee has to designate a committee member whose job it is to monitor breeders _who are members of the breed club _to ensure that they are breeding responsibly.


These days you don't even have to own/breed/show to become a member of a breed club, you merely need to show an interest in the breed. If as you say there are committee members who's job it is to ensure that they are breeding responsibly, how come I know of a few that breed back to back who are not only members but on a committee too 



Spellweaver said:


> Again, this is not quite right. The judge can and will withold placings if the dog is not good enough to win, irrespective of the size of the class. No dog should go through just by default. In addition, for most breeds with CC's, classes are huge and it is very difficult to win in the classes where stud book numbers are on offer. Border collies (our breed) are in stud book band E, which means we need a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in limit or open at championship shows to win a stud book number. These regularly have entries of 18 - 30 dogs and 18 - 30 bitches.


 This might be true for some if not most breeds but I have been to champ shows and have seen only 2 in open class. Now lets be totally honest here, we both know that most judges will award the 3rd place to any dog as long as there's nothing obviously visibly wrong with it if it there were only 3 in the class. Last year whilst watching my breed at Crufts, a few dogs being shown made me wonder how the hell they'd qualified :confused1:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I am a little bit confused as to why anything she has done is actually an offence. It is not illegal to breed 2 litters in 12 months. There is no law says the dogs have to be vaccinated and records kept, there is no law says pups must be microchipped. I don't understand.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Blitz said:


> I am a little bit confused as to why anything she has done is actually an offence. It is not illegal to breed 2 litters in 12 months. There is no law says the dogs have to be vaccinated and records kept, there is no law says pups must be microchipped. I don't understand.


I imagine it will be to do with her breeding license with her local council, rather than national laws.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> Both are bad. How can a breeder who's yet to have a litter be accredited ? accredited for what exactly ? Encouraging breeders to have more than 5 litters so they get a little badge next to their name is just encouraging the wrong sort of ethics. :


And if everyone followed that there would be no breeders at all!  Can't breed if you are new to it, but can't breed (shock horror) five litters because that's wrong? You keep saying it's unethical to breed more than 5 litters, but I don't follow your argument there. I would rather buy a dog from an experienced breeder who has bred more than five litters - ie someone who knows what they are doing. It'snot unethical to breed five litters   



shazalhasa said:


> These days you don't even have to own/breed/show to become a member of a breed club, you merely need to show an interest in the breed. If as you say there are committee members who's job it is to ensure that they are breeding responsibly, how come I know of a few that breed back to back who are not only members but on a committee too  :


No, why should you have to show/breed/own to be a member of a breed club? Breed clubs are for ALL people interested in that breed, not for people who show that breed. But because people do breed who are members of that club, then it is the club's responsibility to make sure their members breed responsibly. In order to be recognised by the KC, your breed club should have asked each and every one of its members to sign and agree to the following code of ethics, and the committee is responsible for making sure its members adhere to the code:

_GENERAL CODE OF ETHICS

All members of the (insert name of club) undertake to abide by its general Code of Ethics.

Club members:

1)	Will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange for appropriate veterinary attention if and when required.

2)	Will agree without reservation that any veterinary surgeon performing an operation on any of their dogs which alters the natural conformation of the animal, may report such operation to the Kennel Club.

3)	Will agree that no healthy puppy will be culled. Puppies which may not conform to the Breed Standard should be placed in suitable homes.

4)	Will abide by all aspects of the Animal Welfare Act.

5)	Will not create demand for, nor supply, puppies that have been docked illegally.

6)	Will agree not to breed from a dog or bitch which could be in any way harmful to the dog or to the breed.

7)	Will not allow any of their dogs to roam at large or to cause a nuisance to neighbours or those carrying out official duties.

8)	Will ensure that their dogs wear properly tagged collars and will be kept leashed or under effective control when away from home.

9)	Will clean up after their dogs in public places or anywhere their dogs are being exhibited.

10)	Will only sell dogs where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will help with the re-homing of a dog if the initial circumstances change.

11) Will supply written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home.

12) Will ensure that all relevant Kennel Club documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog, and will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available.

13) Will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retail pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind. Will not sell by sale or auction Kennel Club registration certificates as stand alone items (not accompanying a dog).

14) Will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs nor mislead any person regarding the health or quality of a dog.

Breach of these provisions may result in expulsion from club membership, and/or disciplinary action by the Kennel Club and/or reporting to the relevant authorities for legal action._

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/5033/Code-of-Ethics-Sept-2008-for-breed-clubs.doc

If it's not happening in your breed club, then speak to your breed club.



shazalhasa said:


> This might be true for some if not most breeds but I have been to champ shows and have seen only 2 in open class. Now lets be totally honest here, we both know that most judges will award the 3rd place to any dog as long as there's nothing obviously visibly wrong with it if it there were only 3 in the class. Last year whilst watching my breed at Crufts, a few dogs being shown made me wonder how the hell they'd qualified :confused1:


My experiences at champ shows are different - only last year at Blackpool one very eminent judge caused uproar in border collies for sending dogs out of the ring and refusing to let them continue to show if their bites weren't absolutely perfect - even veteran dogs with worn down teeth were sent out.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> And if everyone followed that there would be no breeders at all!  Can't breed if you are new to it, but can't breed (shock horror) five litters because that's wrong? You keep saying it's unethical to breed more than 5 litters, but I don't follow your argument there. I would rather buy a dog from an experienced breeder who has bred more than five litters - ie someone who knows what they are doing. It'snot unethical to breed five litters


You've clearly missed the point totally  and twisting what I type isn't going to change it. There are some people who will join the ABS just to look like they know what they are doing and will breed breed breed just to get an accolade... making them seem more knowledgable 



Spellweaver said:


> No, why should you have to show/breed/own to be a member of a breed club? Breed clubs are for ALL people interested in that breed, not for people who show that breed. But because people do breed who are members of that club, then it is the club's responsibility to make sure their members breed responsibly. In order to be recognised by the KC, your breed club should have asked each and every one of its members to sign and agree to the following code of ethics, and the committee is responsible for making sure its members adhere to the code: bla bla bla
> 
> If it's not happening in your breed club, then speak to your breed club.


As far as I'm aware, it's not happening in my breed club... as in the breed club that I'm a member of. The clubs that I know it goes on in, I don't want to join... simple as that ! BTW... there is nothing in the code of ethics thats condemns back to back breeding... you can post it here all you like, try actually reading it 



Spellweaver said:


> My experiences at champ shows are different - only last year at Blackpool one very eminent judge caused uproar in border collies for sending dogs out of the ring and refusing to let them continue to show if their bites weren't absolutely perfect - even veteran dogs with worn down teeth were sent out.


Funny you should mention the teeth, I was sitting right by the judging table and saw some bloody awful mouths... not one dog was sent out of the ring !


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> You've clearly missed the point totally  and twisting what I type isn't going to change it. There are some people who will join the ABS just to look like they know what they are doing and will breed breed breed just to get an accolade... making them seem more knowledgable  !


 You're right, I have missed the point totally which is why I asked you what you meant. I'm not twisting what you type - you typed that breeding five litters is unethical and I do not understand why you think it is unethical. I really do not see why you have a beef that before you can gain an accredited breeder accolade you have to have proved yourself by breeding five litters. I can't see anything wrong in someone having to have experience in something before they are given an accolade. You obviously can. So why don't you explain your point instead of posting rolleyes and trying to be sarcastic? Do you think that the accolade should be given to every breeder who joins the scheme, irrespective of their experience? Or where would you set the figure?



shazalhasa said:


> As far as I'm aware, it's not happening in my breed club... as in the breed club that I'm a member of. The clubs that I know it goes on in, I don't want to join... simple as that ! !


Including the code of ethics will be happening in every breed club affiliated to the KC - and if the club you belong to is affiliated to the KC then your club will have adopted the code of ethics. I don't understand your remark about why you wouldn't want to join a club who had adpoted the code of ethics    - look, there's another opportunity for you to rolleyes at me again for missing a point you've not explained properly!



shazalhasa said:


> BTW... there is nothing in the code of ethics thats condemns back to back breeding... you can post it here all you like, try actually reading it !


You can post rolleyes all you want sweetie, but I can assure you that as a committee memebr of the Bergamasco Club of Great Britain I have not only read the code of ethics, but discussed it and agreed with the rest of the committee that members will be asked to sign to say they agree with it each year when they send their subs. I never mentioned it in relation to back to back breeding, but since you bring it up, point six states "6) _Will agree not to breed from a dog or bitch which could be in any way harmful to the dog or to the breed. _ " There are an odd few cases where back to back breeding is ok - for example where a bitch only has a season every year (like my female bergie) so to ban it altogether would be unfair. But if it is six month back to back breeding then that would be harmful to the bitch and would be covered under point 6.



shazalhasa said:


> Funny you should mention the teeth, I was sitting right by the judging table and saw some bloody awful mouths... not one dog was sent out of the ring !


Ah, we agree - as a matter of fact I do find it rather funny that the one example I give you have seen the exact opposite. And may I congratulate you on your excellent eyesight to have been able to see the small mouths of your breed at that sort of distance and around the hands of the judge holding the mouth. Hmmmmm!


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> When we decided that we were going to breed our Coco, a few people suggested that we become a member of the Accredited Breeder Scheme and for a while we thought that would be a good thing to do until we looked into it
> 
> The first surprise was that you don't even need to have any breeding experience to become a member. The accolades don't really mean a thing either... *Breeding experience accolade - more than 5 litters... encouraging the wrong sort of ethics*. Breed Club accolade - you only need to join a breed club. Stud book accolade - ok so this could mean that a breeder is doing something right but there are shows that could make this easy enough, I've been to shows where there have only been 2 dogs in open class... any 1 other dog that had been in that class would get a stud book number by default
> 
> From what we could see, there was nothing special and the more we looked into the kind of breeders who were members, the more we were put off.





Spellweaver said:


> You're right, I have missed the point totally which is why I asked you what you meant. *I'm not twisting what you type - you typed that breeding five litters is unethical* bla bla bla


I can't even be bothered with this anymore it's a little boring now :bored:

Maybe we should get back to the original subject...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> I can't even be bothered with this anymore it's a little boring now :bored:


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> ...only last year at Blackpool, one very eminent judge caused uproar in border collies...
> sending dogs out of the ring and refusing to let them continue to show if their bites weren't absolutely perfect -
> *even veteran dogs with worn down teeth were sent out. *


my WORD, weaver!  
sending veteran-dogs from the ring because their teeth show (normal) wear?! 
thats among the top-10 most asinine things i have heard of, done by a judge presiding in a ring. :thumbdown:

humans are the most bizarre species - _**** sapiens_, my sweet aunt-fanny...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> my WORD, weaver!
> sending veteran-dogs from the ring because their teeth show (normal) wear?!
> thats among the top-10 most asinine things i have heard of, done by a judge presiding in a ring. :thumbdown:
> 
> humans are the most bizarre species - _**** sapiens_, my sweet aunt-fanny...


I did say it caused an uproar! Sending out the not so perfect bites we accepted, but sending out the veterans with worn down teeth


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## Faughaballagh (Aug 29, 2013)

Can anyone tell me if this woman is still trading in some form? Pse contact me at [email protected]

Thank you


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

> Accredited Kennel Club Breeder Puppy Farms
> 
> Former Kennel Club Accredited Breeder Miss Marrison of TAPSANAV COCKERS, who was also licensed by Eastleigh Borough Council, is no longer a member of the Accredited Breeder Scheme. She was removed from the scheme after DNA parentage analysis confirmed that Isa (KENMILQUIN WHITNEY OF TAPSANAV)  Pictured with puppies below  was the mother of four litters without missing a season in between.
> 
> ...


There's another charming person. Sorry the picture hasn't come out. There really are some VILE people around and they tarnish the image of the vast majority of good, ethical and conscientious dog breeders
______________________________________________________________________________


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

That lady keeps 18 bitches. I imagine that leads to a lot of puppies! Poor dogs.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

ozrex said:


> There's another charming person. ... There really are some VILE people around, & they tarnish the image
> of the vast majority of good, ethical and conscientious dog breeders


Ms Sandy Marrison is still breeding - under a new name:


> _
> Miss Sandy Marrison, Kennel Club affix Tapsanav Cocker spaniels.
> Previously of Chandlers Ford, Hampshire,
> now *selling from Wiltshire, under the name Pat Holmes*.
> Ms Marrison says she no longer breeds Cockers, however, she still breeds dogs, so be aware! _


FROM
Sellers

The same page also lists Ms Bastin:


> _
> *Lorretta Bastin, Runwell Kennels, Essex*.
> Previously known as *Hot Dog Kennels*._


Other breeders listed as possible / probable puppy-mills include:



> _
> 
> *Cremdella Kennels*; Willow Park travellers site in Becks Row, Suffolk. Peviously known as *Willow Park Puppies*.
> Cremdella are advertising pups on *Epupz* & *pets 4 homes* - please be aware.
> ...


That list is courtesy of *Puppy Love Campaigns* - hopefully it's accurate.

.
.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

She sold sick dogs that she'd got from Irish puppy farms.


Hope she rots in hell.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Here's a better link for the original article - 
TEXT ONLY, no ads, no bl**dy pop-up form demanding U surrender info [AKA "join"]

Kennel owner prosecuted for making dog overbreed (From Echo)


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