# The Mexican Dog Whisperer - Edinburgh



## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

I know what you're all thinking: Cesar Millan! But alas you'd be wrong.

On my hunt for a local dog trainer I stumbled across a website named K9 Edinburgh. The website isn't particularly well kept or designed but it's my personal opinion that in the dog training/breeding business, the people who know best what they're doing are the ones with the least time or need for a snazzy website. Apparently he's quite well known and there are a few newspaper articles here and there regarding his techniques and success.

It seems to me there really aren't that many obedience classes here in Edinburgh and I basically already narrowed it down to Currie Dog Training not too far from me as the lady there does the KC Good Citizen Scheme (the benefits of which I'm still unsure of) but then I came across Marco (the K9 guy) got swayed by the publicity etc. Has anyone heard of this guy?

On a side note. Exactly what are the benefits of KC Good Citizen Scheme? Is it simply a certificate owners can wave in the face of house guests in a similar fashion to pulling out embarrassing photo albums of their children? Or are there insurance benefits etc. that can be gained from it?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

U ** are** joking... aren;t U? :huh: 
trainers who have crappy websites must be the better trainers?! :crazy: hoo, boy :001_tt2:

from this page - Dominant Dog, K9 Edinburgh â Dog training and Behavior Modification 


> EXCERPT - *bold added - *
> 
> The characteristics that a dominant dog displays is that he *pulls while on the leash demonstrating that he wants to be the boss, the leader*. Another tell tale sign may be that when you are reading the paper or watching the tv *the dog demands that you pet him and if you do so but then stop the petting he will nudge you with his paws or head until you "obey" his demand that he gets the attention he is seeking.*
> 
> ...


 in my frank professional opinion, the above is pure cowflop. 

the slide-show has handlers PINNING their dogs as a group exercise - 
one hand around the muzzle - *holding it closed, which here would leave the dog immediately heat-stressed! -* 
and one hand holding the upper-rear-leg to the ground, preventing the dog from rising. :nonod:

i especially liked the photo of him hypnotizing the GSD  thats a memorable kodak-moment... :lol: 
my vote? _*4 paws and 2 thumbs Down :thumbdown: *_


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I would personally steer clear of anyone who gives themselves a gimmicky title but that's just my opinion. I concur with leashedforlife. Avoid anyone who expounds that sort of old fashioned, outdated nonsence. They obviously learned their stuff from antique dog training books and hyped up tv programmes or maybe from other 'stuck-in-the-dark-ages' trainers. 

Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK has a list of members. Have a look to see if you can find a local trainer near you. They tend to be a lot more up to date with their knowledge.

The KC Good Citz scheme is something to work towards and gives many owners confidence and the enthusiasm to carry on training instead of just going for a few weeks. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/dogtraining has more info for you.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CURRIE dog-training lists no professional affilaiations at all - 
and the owner only shows their Irish Setter in conformation, not obedience, nor any other KC performance.

did U want to take handling-classes - or teach Ur dog manners? :huh:

i;m in the USA and a search via Google-maps *nearby* function netted an APDT-trainer here - 
__________________________ 
Perfect Pets 
37 Bryce Crescent
Currie EH14 5LL, United Kingdom

Get Directions
0131 449 2818 
_________________________

the APDT-uk does not use such bizarre and outdated techniques as pinning, etc - dominance was already outdated 
when it was first popularized in the early-1980s, it is no more up-to-date over 20 years later. 

heres the full listing: 
Graham Cameron Perfect Pets Currie / Midlothian on vetontheweb.co.uk


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CarolineH said:


> Avoid anyone who expounds that sort of old fashioned, outdated nonsence. They obviously learned their stuff from antique dog training books and hyped up tv programmes or maybe from other 'stuck-in-the-dark-ages' trainers.


hey, caro! :--)

didja see the snap of him waving the chained pocket-watch in front of the sitting GSD? 
:lol: its worth going to the website for that one photo...  hee-hee...


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> hey, caro! :--)
> 
> didja see the snap of him waving the chained pocket-watch in front of the sitting GSD?
> :lol: its worth going to the website for that one photo...  hee-hee...


ROFL!!! :lol: How silly?! My friend is a qualified hypnotherapist - in fact I did half of a hypnotherapy course before I became ill and had to quit and I have never seen anyone use a watch to hypnotise anyone! You simply do not need it. That is so old hat! He has certainly hit on a gimmick there hasn't he? 

I can calm a dog, cat, rabbit, chinchilla or guinea pig simply by talking very quietly, making my movements very calm and stroking one of their ears - just ask my vet who never needs a vet nurse to help restrain one of my pets because I'm there! But they aren't hypnotised, I simply would never do that to them. I simply put them into a calm, relaxed state so that they can be examined - no mean feat with a guinea pig let me tell you!:eek6:

Yours faithfully,

*The Nottingham Pet Pacifier*


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

His site would be amusing if it wasn't so bad he was using dominance methods. What exactly is he meant to be hypnotising that gsd to do?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

more APDT-uk trainers - 
Local Dog Trainers in Scotland - Edinburgh UK


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What is it with certain dog trainers and gimmicky names??

I swear I could set up a website calling myself a Fido Fiddler and I'd get clients flocking in


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> What is it with certain dog trainers and gimmicky names??
> 
> I swear I could set up a website calling myself a Fido Fiddler and I'd get clients flocking in


Well you're not having 'Mutt Mutterer'! That's mine as well as 'Pet Pacifier'! :lol:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> What exactly is he meant to be hypnotising that GSD to do?


i think he is going to have the tranced-Shepherd take over teaching the class - 
the GSD would probably do a better job, even in an altered state, :lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Have to agree, stay clear of this one!!

There is only one APDT trainer in my area and I've got my own savings jar for that because I know they're worth it


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Probably but I'm sure anyone could. There's one near me that looks good that's it


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I've just sat and watched the videos. Choke chains galore.  Most of those exercises, especially the group ones, we used to practice when I ran my own classes. We didn't use choke chains though - ever and no owner was allowed to snarl commands at their dog either! We also did demonstrations at shows to show how well dogs can be trained without all that macho 'dominance' stuff!


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

i have just flicked through the website..... i am speechless! this is a diliberate ploy to emulate the one we dont talk about! are people really so naive as to fall for this? :scared:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People fall for he who must not be named so yeah some people will believe this is the best way to train.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

lucysnewmum said:


> ...are people really so naive as to fall for this? :scared:


in a word?

_*Yes. *_


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

good grief! back in the day when i was a young dog handler it was a funny old lady in a check skirt and a horrible catch phrase Walkies! i suppose its only education that helps people realise that the dominance theory is all wrong! no training should involve physical abuse of any kind.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Barbara Woodhouse? She wasn't much better. Yanking dogs by choke chains 3 feet across the ground to teach them not to pull.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Barbara Woodhouse? She wasn't much better. Yanking dogs by choke chains 3 feet across the ground to teach them not to pull.


But it 'worked' you see, by stunning the dog into walking slowly in an effort to calm it's owner down.  Much the same as pinning a dog down, jabbing it in the neck and/or shocking it with an electric collar will make it freeze hence looking like the problem is solved.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

What a douche.

That webiste is so bad it is funny. I could design a better one on a solar powered calculator. Looks like there are only 4/5 sections until you start clicking stuff and then theri is loads of b0ll0cks to be read if you look hard enough.

I like his CV. What is "neuroliguistic" - underlined red in Word I bet.

Brittish - Underlined red.
Psicotherapy - underlined red.
Hipnotherapy - Underlined red.

"But he's not from the UK!" you say.
"But he's copying it from a certificate!" I say.

Why are 95% of dogs being pinned to the deck and not looking happy about any of the training? None of the owners seem to be enjoying it either.

Oh wait.

Yep, this explains why the dogs aren't having such a good time of things.

Dog Hypnotist: Meet the Leading Man for Owners

"Every time you get excited dog, I am gonna deck you!"


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## Guest (May 27, 2010)

hutch6 said:


> What a douche.
> 
> That webiste is so bad it is funny. I could design a better one on a solar powered calculator. Looks like there are only 4/5 sections until you start clicking stuff and then theri is loads of b0ll0cks to be read if you look hard enough.
> 
> ...


jeezus that link is disturbing what an idiot! the poor dog i wonder where he got his influence from CM has a lot to answer for


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Taken from the article Hutch has linked to;
_'Marco del Valle has seen enough. He bounds over and with a sudden flick whips Jamie's rear legs from under him._
_







_
_Now wrestled to the ground, Jamie's head swipes around only for Marco to push it firmly back down. At this point, most people might prefer to cut the odds of losing their fingers to a set of canine incisors, and simply run. Marco, however, gently and repeatedly taps the side of Jamie's neck.'_

:

:eek6:



Hmm. You can see so clearly who he is emulating. Ye gods! Is this really the way that dog training is going again? This is exactly why we who have more than a passing interest in dog training and rehabilitation are so against the popularity of 'he who shall not be named'! There are now so many copycat 'trainers' emulating him and his archaic methods, so full of ignorance that they are bursting at the seams, or is that with their egos? :001_cool:


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

My favourite bit from all of his materpieces:

"The technique is very effective when you are dealing with aggressive dogs. They go into a trance-like state which takes away their anger and releases all that aggression." In a difficult situation, the dog's brain filters through three processes, he adds. "There is fear, there is fight and there is flight. The first step is to bring the dog into a submissive position so they can release their fear, the anger and rage that it has, because they then know that they are in the hands of their master."

"And once they have released that, *the dog can then relax in a flat position and the special massage in the neck can then drive it into a hypnotic state  where its tongue hangs out, its eyes are rolling in its head and it is perfectly calm*."

Aye. I've been exacltly like that on a few occasions. It's commonly, and more conveniently, known as

"BEING UNCONSCIOUS"


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

LOL Hutch! 

However, this is what can happen when people ape the DW. 
San Diego Man Arrested In Puppy Choking Incident - cbs2.com

Nat Geo have a responsibility to their viewers (who sadly are not always the most sensible of people) to remove this programme and help to protect dogs from potential harm and owners from being bitten - in my humble opinion of course.

*This is why this subject will be discussed time and time again on forums because it IS a big concern that there are so many mimicking this persons methods and causing stress and suffering to dogs in the process. This sort of training has to be loudly disapproved of until it loses popularity again!*

The Mexican Dog Whisperer as detailed in the OPs post, is nothing but a copycat dog wrestler who is using 'hypnotherapy' as a guise for alpha rolling! Hypnotherapy has NOTHING to do with it at all but it looks good to the ignorant and gullible I suppose.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've seen that quote somewhere before a certain other Mexican with a liking for alpha rolls. Poor dogs


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

I've not looked at his website but I have heard of him and I wouldn't go anywhere near him. I used to take Arran to Lynn Aitchison's class which she holds in Portobello community centre, she was good but the classes were to big for my liking. Arran has fear aggression and I'm thinking of getting in touch with this guy Mat Ward's Dog and Cat Behaviour Clinic, Edinburgh, Scotland. Expert dog and cat behaviour advice from a highly qualified and experienced behaviourist and trainer .

Terri


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

LOL i didnt even really look at his website much, the front page was enough. i wouldnt go near the guy. apart from his obvious dominance tactics, and "hypnotherapy" (wtf?), he also does the classes in a park?!

personally i would only go to a training class that was in a specifically designed space for it, or in a place that the trainer owned/rented. not a park!! agilty in a park yes, obedience training, no. 


we have a guy in my area who calls himself the dog whisperer. he is a fully fledged puppy farmer who uses disgusting techniques to train dogs. he makes me very sad.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Kinski, Mat Ward looks like the real deal. Qualified, member of the APBC etc, so I would certainly give him some consideration. He looks quite young but that's nothing to judge him on. It's not how long you've been learning but what you have learned that matters. 

Ducky, I used to run my classes in a public park. Best place to do them as it is the normal place most dogs are walked and distractions are on tap. Also makes the owners get themselves long lines for practing recall with rather than pretending that they 'have one at home'.  So nothing wrong with that. How many people walk their dogs in a church hall? Not many! How many train in a church hall then find as soon as there is the distraction of grass, birds, children playing etc that their dog forgets that the 'obedience' applies outside too? That's why I moved my classes ouside in the end. If it rained, we dived into cars until it stopped. We were only rained off a few times. In hot weather, we trained under the trees and had a gazebo up etc. Parks are fine if you choose them carefully.

I agree though about his dominance fixation and his hypnotherapy claptrap. (a cover for alpha rolling if ever I saw one!) Whisperers, Listeners, Psychologists, they are becoming ten-a-penny and with a few exceptions, none of them are proving themselves worth the bother. Most need to do a lot more learning and research before adopting a gimmicky name tag and making themselves out to be something wonderful and magical with canines.


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

CarolineH said:


> Ducky, I used to run my classes in a public park. Best place to do them as it is the normal place most dogs are walked and distractions are on tap. Also makes the owners get themselves long lines for practing recall with rather than pretending that they 'have one at home'.  So nothing wrong with that. How many people walk their dogs in a church hall? Not many! How many train in a church hall then find as soon as there is the distraction of grass, birds, children playing etc that their dog forgets that the 'obedience' applies outside too? That's why I moved my classes ouside in the end. If it rained, we dived into cars until it stopped. We were only rained off a few times. In hot weather, we trained under the trees and had a gazebo up etc. Parks are fine if you choose them carefully.




i suppose thats true about the long lines. i guess when it comes to training classes, i dont really expect the dogs to actually learn anything there and then. i see training classes more for the owner learning, and then taking it away and practicing in lots of different places. i know if i took my beagle to a class in the park, he wouldnt do anything at all cause he would just be sniffing the whole time. 
i guess it can work, but maybe not for me!


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## sue&harvey (Mar 10, 2010)

Terr said:


> I know what you're all thinking: Cesar Millan! But alas you'd be wrong.
> 
> 
> Um is it his cousin? Certainly of the same Old school.
> ...


Sorry I don;t mean to tear your post appart but this is exactly what those who give themselves a gimiky title want. Trick you into thinking they are great. IMO a good trainer would be humble about their skills, and think a website should be factual. If a TV human "hypnotheripist" dangled a pocket watch infront of someones face would you believe it? I doubt it.

I would suggest your best bet is to follow the links the others have given and pop into the vets and see who they would recommend and personally take their dogs to. Hope you find a positive reward trainer soon.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I've seen that quote somewhere before - a certain other Mexican with a liking for alpha rolls...


i just WISH that Alpha-rolls were on catering menus as a year-round appetizer,  instead of on the list of supposedly *apropos* things to do to ones dog. :thumbdown:

i swear i;m gonna come up with a recipe that both humans + dogs can eat, and CALL them *alpha-rolls*  
something meat-free but good, and not too sweet, either... :huh: hmmmm...


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Berry roll or something maybe. Raspberry jam and sponge.


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## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the replies, I haven't gone through everything yet but I will. Had a quick look that leashedforlife's APDT links and I'm really surprised to see that there's only 3 in the entire Edinburgh area? I feel like I'm living in a cave sometimes.


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## Beatrice Mary (Nov 18, 2009)

Have you looked at the Scottish Kennel Club website as there are several training classes in Edinburgh who come recommended though they are not APDT?


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Just looked at the first site - scary stuff.

I was particularly concerned about



> if he doesn't obey you must administer the prescribed correction to the dog





> Do not try these simple exercises without the help of a professional because it can be dangerous( not only physically but mentally also) for your dog .


And as for the puppy page - saying that


> In the past people use to think that puppies should be trained after they reach six or ten months old, fortunately today we know we can start as soon as the puppy finishes his vaccination period, which is at eight to ten weeks old.


And yet, every single puppy - most of which look about 12 weeks - on that page is wearing a choke chain. Even the chi. He's lucky he hasn't had dead pups on his hands. 

And as for being a practicioner of sciences he can't even spell....

I wouldn't let this guy water my house plants let alone get his filthy hands on my dog!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

*Run!.... :yikes: *


Colette said:


> I wouldn't let this guy water my house plants let alone get his filthy hands on my dog!


i agree - he sounds completely terrifying  what a Neanderthal - and that gives early-humans a bad name. :nonod:

a throwback to Koehler - *Ergo* throw him back :lol: sorry, couldn;t resist it...  
--- terry


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Trouble is, anyone can set up as a trainer, even with limited experience (in this case probably limited to watching a tv programme!) and no qualifications or indeed, evidence of learning, ie; going on courses, seminars to further knowledge etc.


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## JjPhoenix (Jan 6, 2010)

Terr said:


> I know what you're all thinking: Cesar Millan! But alas you'd be wrong.
> 
> On my hunt for a local dog trainer I stumbled across a website named K9 Edinburgh. The website isn't particularly well kept or designed but it's my personal opinion that in the dog training/breeding business, the people who know best what they're doing are the ones with the least time or need for a snazzy website. Apparently he's quite well known and there are a few newspaper articles here and there regarding his techniques and success.
> 
> ...


kc good cits is to encourage pet dog owners to train their dogs and to participate in fun activities with them to enhance the dog owner relationship (exactly the opposite of what this 'dog whisperer' bloke is doing.

also they are good if you ever have a complaint made against you or your dog, you have proof that is nationially recoginsed that you are a responsible dog owner - it can make all the difference somethimes.

This made me laugh - and why? Because it was put up another forum the other day because of what a **** 'dog trainer' if thats wha you want to call him, he is!

have you seen wha he'd do to a shy dog? its makes me sick, i genuinely didnt think i would ever hear someone say they would take there dog there, you should have your poor dog taken off you if thats how your going to treat the poor thing!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

Haven't been on for ages but you'll all be glad to hear that I have found a trainer for Dante. We started outdoor training last week and will start an 8 week course in July. Guy's name is Maxwell Muir and is APDT.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

That's fab news - glad to hear you've found a decent class. Good luck!


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Terr said:


> Haven't been on for ages but you'll all be glad to hear that I have found a trainer for Dante. We started outdoor training last week and will start an 8 week course in July. Guy's name is Maxwell Muir and is APDT.


Brilliant! Let us know how you go on!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Terr said:


> We started outdoor training last week and will start an 8 week course in July. Guy's name is Maxwell Muir and is APDT.


any updates, hun? inquiring minds...  
hoping for happy news, 
- t


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## Megan_M (Jul 13, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> CURRIE dog-training lists no professional affilaiations at all -
> and the owner only shows their Irish Setter in conformation, not obedience, nor any other KC performance.
> 
> did U want to take handling-classes - or teach Ur dog manners? :huh:


Don't believe the Setter belongs to the trainer...Think it is a dog they helped train at their ringcraft classes... As they do both ringcraft and obedience classes from the looks of their site

As for the mexican dog whisperer I would avoid him to watched some of the vids and the dogs didnt look happy.


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