# An update on Paisley GSD (Bigmomma)



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

So Bigmomma has been busy recently and hasn't had time to update you all on Paisley so I thought I'd just let you all know how she's getting on.......
http://egsr.org/paisley/

Yep Paisley has been handed into rescue, despite the fact that the breeder would have taken her back, and she did not even have the balls to tell the breeder she had put the dog in rescue.
I was made aware of Paisley being in rescue by another member and passed on info for the breeder, but unfortunately the rescue haven't given her back to him.

Such a shame for the dog. Bigmomma I don't know if you will see this as you appear to have blocked me and a few other members from viewing your profile, but I strongly advise you stick to buying stuffed teddies from now on


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

BigMomma said:


> not in a million years would I ever give her up


Just incase anyone doesn't know who Bigmomma is here's some of her interesting threads 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/meet-paisley.397680/
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/cant-cope.399138/#post-1064170333
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/2nd-dog-which-breed.402382/#post-1064223370


----------



## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Wow


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I know this particular dog has been mentioned in a previous thread, and has upset many members on here, and you and the breeder too now....

Such as sad tale...sounds similar to the tale of the previous dog too


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

How very sad


----------



## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm lost for words, well other than bad words


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I was alerted to what had happened by another member and was desperately hoping the breeder would step in and be able to get her back. Do you know why the rescue has refused this @Nataliee? Surely it's in Paisley's best interests to be returned to the person who bred her if he is responsible and genuine.

I won't comment further on BigMomma, but do find it very disheartening this is the end result after so much confidence and persuasion she had in convincing us and herself no doubt, that she wouldn't even contemplate rehoming her etc. I myself gave her the benefit of the doubt in regards to her decisions


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

What are the reasons for the rehome? Do we know?

I just like to have all the facts before i cast judgment. 

Though if it's for reasons I suspect, then I imagine the dog may actually be better off...


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes I had heard that she had given up on this gorgeous dog (wasn't there a previous dog & cats that were rehomed as well?) So sad to hear, not just that a young dog is wanting a new home already but also that the breeder wasn't informed ..... sickening


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I don't know as to why she gave her up but given that she didn't return the dog to the breeder I'm guessing it's not for a genuine reason. I don't know why the rescue won't give Paisley back to the breeder either but I have heard stories before where rescues have been difficult with giving a dog back to the breeder


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Was this already spoken about on the forum then? I wasn't sure if people already knew


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Nataliee said:


> Was this already spoken about on the forum then? I wasn't sure if people already knew


Not publicly, no. I was alerted through PM.


----------



## icklemunch (May 4, 2015)

This is so sad. Poor Paisley


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Nataliee said:


> Was this already spoken about on the forum then? I wasn't sure if people already knew


No, I heard on FB


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh dear, poor Paisley. I had the awful feeling this might happen. Hope he finds a really great home


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

So sad
But I wouldn't like to judge on her reasons as I have no knowledge, I am glad she is in rescue rather than being sold on through Gumtree or the like.
It is a shame that she didn't go back to the breeder, especially as the breeder would have her back.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

No idea why she's given the dog up, I'm assuming its not a legit reason. Sad the breeder didn't get the option to have paisley back, if of course he even could/ wanted to


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Nataliee said:


> Was this already spoken about on the forum then? I wasn't sure if people already knew


Yes it was spoken about publicly however other than stating a 7month old GSD pup was now in rescue, no names were mentioned....however it really did not take a genius to guess which young dog it would be.

It didn't have its own thread, but was a thread where there was quite a heated debate occurring.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Yes it was spoken about publicly however other than stating a 7month old GSD pup was now in rescue, no names were mentioned....however it really did not take a genius to guess which young dog it would be.
> 
> It didn't have its own thread, but was a thread where there was quite a heated debate occurring.


Ah ok thanks that explains why I hadn't noticed it!


----------



## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Not surprised at all sadly 

Is the breeder trying to get her back or are they allowing the rescue to re-home her? It's a terrible shame if the breeder is trying to get her back but the rescue isn't allowing it.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> Yes I had heard that she had given up on this gorgeous dog (wasn't there a previous dog & cats that were rehomed as well?) So sad to hear, not just that a young dog is wanting a new home already but also that the breeder wasn't informed ..... sickening


I believe previous dog was rehomed yes, because not the right dog for them and they had young children, but she still had young children was what I didn't understand, from what I read...


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Shikoku said:


> Not surprised at all sadly
> 
> Is the breeder trying to get her back or are they allowing the rescue to re-home her? It's a terrible shame if the breeder is trying to get her back but the rescue isn't allowing it.


I don't know the breeder personally so haven't been speaking to him myself but from what I have been told yes he has tried to get her back and the rescue are ignoring him


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sadly I think the writing was on the wall from the start, the owner's somewhat hostile attitude to members trying to offer help/guidance in the early days makes me suspect she wouldn't come back here to discuss the reasons. Its possible there was a genuine reason such as family illness but in which case I would have thought the breeder would have been the first port of call not a rescue. I hope Paisley finds a home with someone who really does understand her breed and what taking on a working lines GSD involves and who has the time and facilities to do that lovely girl justice..


----------



## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

I can sort of understand the rescue not handing her back to the breeder (although ignoring is just rude)
She's been - presumably - signed over into the rescues care. No reason the breeder shouldn't be treated like a potential adopter really, at least the way I see it.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sadly I think the writing was on the wall from the start, the owner's somewhat hostile attitude to members trying to offer help/guidance in the early days makes me suspect she wouldn't come back here to discuss the reasons. Its possible there was a genuine reason such as family illness but in which case I would have thought the breeder would have been the first port of call not a rescue. I hope Paisley finds a home with someone who really does understand her breed and what taking on a working lines GSD involves and who has the time and facilities to do that lovely girl justice..


Very well said, and I agree. It's a very sad outcome but in the right home and with a fab owner who is deserving of a dog who always sounded so full of promise, Paisley will shine. I hope that she's happier in foster.

I truly hope that @BigMomma never gets another dog.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I believe Bigmomma had actually signed a contract to say the dog would be returned to the breeder if she was unable to keep her


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

BlueJay said:


> I can sort of understand the rescue not handing her back to the breeder (although ignoring is just rude)
> She's been - presumably - signed over into the rescues care. No reason the breeder shouldn't be treated like a potential adopter really, at least the way I see it.


But why keep a dog taking up rescue/foster space when it's breeder will have it back? That space could be used for a dog more in need....


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nataliee said:


> I believe Bigmomma had actually signed a contract to say the dog would be returned to the breeder if she was unable to keep her


If I were the breeder I would take legal action against her. Much as I support rescues and nearly always fight their corner I don't understand why they would want to keep a dog from a breeder who is more than willing to honour his commitment to her and the contract to take her back. Unless of course they have been told things about the breeder that make them doubt his suitability.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Nataliee said:


> I believe Bigmomma had actually signed a contract to say the dog would be returned to the breeder if she was unable to keep her


in this time of rescues bursting at the seams surely giving the dog back to the breeder is the easier option........ Seems to be way more to this than meets the eye or is being "reported". I hope BM sees this and is able to defend herself, or at least give her side.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow, and she was so cocky about being able to cope.

Poor dog, I hope she gets the home she really deserves, and I hope that Bigmomma doesn't keep wasting her money buying pets and then getting rid of them when they're not cute anymore.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Well BM did initially refer to the breeder as a BYB when she got Paisley so who knows what else has been said. Fairly sure a BYB does not health test, take back their pups etc....


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yeah the only reason I can think of the rescue not handing Paisley over is if they have doubts about the breeder themselves and his set-up/home etc, and as you said Nataliee the breeder was referred to by BigMomma as a BYB initially. Other than that, as has been said with rescues constantly bearing the brunt of BYB and puppy farm pups, you'd think they'd gladly return the dog to her rightful place.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Yeah the only reason I can think of the rescue not handing Paisley over is if they have doubts about the breeder themselves and his set-up/home etc, and as you said Nataliee the breeder was referred to by BigMomma as a BYB initially. Other than that, as has been said with rescues constantly bearing the brunt of BYB and puppy farm pups, you'd think they'd gladly return the dog to her rightful place.


She doesn't sound the sort of person who would have any ethical concerns about her dog's future. Unless of course the origins of Paisley were a lie.


----------



## Guest (Nov 3, 2015)

There are a lot of unknowns here.
I'll admit my first thought when BigMomma got Paisely was "what breeder would sell her a pup", but of course we have no idea what BigMomma told the breeder, I know I've been duped plenty of times by posters, I'm sure breeders get duped too. 
So it's possible it's a careful breeder who got duped, it's possible it's a don't care breeder who just sold a puppy to the first person who's check cleared. Most likely something more in the middle. 

Same with the rescue, it could be that the rescue has good reason to believe the dog is better off with them, it could be the rescue is just being petty snobs about it and refusing the breeder their dog for no genuine reason, probably something in between those two extremes.

All we do know for sure is that BigMomma posted at 6 months about how great everything was going and how wrong we haters were, and now the dog is in rescue. Frustrating is the understatement of the day....


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I was made aware of this a little while back. I feel terribly sorry for Paisley on one hand, but on the other it is perhaps a good thing as hopefully she will end up in a more suitable home. Sadly none of this surprised me given the owners history and reluctance to take on board what was being said.

It is not abnormal for rescues to not hand over a dog to someone be it a breeder or otherwise when it is now in their care. An almost whole litter of one of my breeds ended up in rescue (long story, but it involved an idiot breeding trying to make money, failing, then the RSPCA getting involved). The breed club offered to take the entire litter but were refused. Thankfully the rescue was sensible and placed them in appropriate homes.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

What a shame.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.

You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really. 

She may have given up other animals before as I've read in this thread BUT this person may have issues that you know nothing of. 

You have no idea what's going on in this persons life or what personal issues they may be having. 

At least the dog is safe in rescue - it could be worse. 

Do you know this person? Do you know anything about them other than what they've written on a forum? 

Some of you bang on and on about how everything you do is for dogs, you care so much blah blah blah.... Whereas this whole thread to me screams out "I don't have a life". You think it has something to do with you because it's a dog and you like dogs, it's completely none of your business and if I was big momma I'd be absolutely fuming!


----------



## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Sad beautiful dog  hopefully she will go to right home for her ..


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I am afraid the writing was on the wall from the beginning, she was overdogged, hopefully the dog will now find a suitable home.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


It's a public forum and I can post what I like just as everyone else can. There are other things that I've chosen not to post.
Where have I said anything bad? I'm fairly sure I've just stated that the dog had been put in rescue despite having signed a contract to go back to the breeder. BM is more than welcome to come along and give her side of the story, I couldn't care less.
It's funny because you say that the thread screams out ' I don't have a life' but then you take the time to post on it


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Such a shame, But surely the main thing is that this beautiful dog gets the right forever home and is happy.


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I believe we all said this from the start when she was researching breeds. IMO a cocker spaniel (what BM was also looking into) would've been too much. At least Paisley will find a good home where her love is deserved.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> Some of you bang on and on about how everything you do is for dogs, you care so much blah blah blah....


Whereas some of us know a darn sight more than has been put on this thread..
Some of us have been aware of what has happened for some time now..Of course, if you wish to defend a serial animal rehomer (once the cute factor has gone) then go ahead..Personally I prefer to defend the innocent myself, and if that means I am branded as having no life by some...well, so be it 

Bigmomma was very public with the choice to get this dog, she shot many of us down when we said this dog was too much (publicly I might add)..so why is it such a shock that the rest of the story is made public?


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I had a feeling this would happen poor Paisley I just hope she gets the wonderful forever home that she deserves such a beautiful girl she looks too


----------



## Guest (Nov 4, 2015)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


Some of us actually do get emotionally invested in the dogs on this forum. It's silly I guess, but when a member's dog passes on I grieve, even though I've never met the dog. When a dog is ill, I worry... And in the case of this poster, where the writing was on the wall from the get-go, I did wonder what had happened. When I found out the dog was in rescue, I was sad for the situation, but relieved for the dog because silly as it may be, I looked at all those pictures of Paisley and got emotionally invested in that dog. Not a lot, but enough that I care about what happens to her. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Sadly the outcome is the one most of us feared when BM first posted about Paisley. However, the positive news is that this lovely dog now gets the chance of a more appropriate home. 

I have been in regular contact with the breeder, who has done his utmost to have Paisley returned to his care. The rescue seem unwilling to allow this for their own reasons. I have heard of rescues tarnishing all breeders as irresponsible for breeding at all when there are so many dogs in rescue. Not a view I share, but one that is not unheard of, so maybe that is this rescue's stance.

I believe the breeder put the local police dog unit in touch with the rescue and they assessed Paisley for suitability for police work but she was under-socialised and a bit on the small side so they returned her with the recommendation she be given back to the breeder. They did say once the breeder had her back and had worked with her, they would be happy to come back out and test her again - yet the rescue still refuse to comply.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I wonder if the rescue would be prepared to sell the dog to the breeder ?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


Anyone has the right to post what they like, as BM did herself. When she signed up, she's just got a cute husky puppy, posted a few times, then all went quiet for a couple years.

Fast forward to this Spring, she's back again, asking for breed advice. Some members, more savvy and with longer memories than mine, asked about the husky, cue sob story about relationship break-down and having to rehome pup.

After asking advice about breeds, she decided she knew best and got Paisley - a working line GSD, who those same savvy members had previously warned would be too much for her, given her background.

Cue more posting and updates about how well Paisley was doing, and basically giving other members the middle finger for 5mths before falling quiet...

Lo and behold, the 7m/o dog is in rescue... Presumably she got too much for BM to handle, and instead of admitting that she was struggling, instead of contacting the breeder and admitting to making a mistake, she dumps her dog in rescue...

No doubt we'll see her again in a couple more years asking about breeds ...

This forum is generally sympathetic and understanding, and is there when the smelly stuff hits the fan. They're there to offer support when a pet has to be rehomed for GENUINE reasons, they support the owner through the grief process, whether the animal has had to be rehomed, or has been PTS, but BM just gloated and boasted about how wrong the "haters" all were, and how she knew best.

That's why some of us are "judging" her and finding her wanting...

At least Paisley has a chance of a loving new home with someone who will look after her.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


You see the thing is some of us are regular users of the forum and we do watch situations develop and hope that people will listen to guidance from those with more experience. In this particular case a lot of us put a fair bit of effort into trying to persuade BM that a GSD was not the right breed for her circumstances. She came on asking for advice about breeds, swinging from one to another but ultimately determined to get a GSD. Even before going to see the pups she was offered advice and ignored it. Even worse the GSD she went for was from working lines and again she became hostile when anyone tried to tell her why that was not a good idea given that she already rehomed a previous dog because it did not fit her lifestyle with two small children living in a flat with a communal garden and little time for exercise. Along the way she has posted for advice and unless that was what she wanted to hear became hostile. So yes there may be a genuine reason for giving up Paisley that none of us know but given that a couple of months ago she was on here boasting about how well things were going and how she would never part with her its a shame she hasn't come back to tell us and see if anyone on here with excellent contacts in the GSD world could have helped find a suitable home if she was so determined not to honour her contract with the breeder. Result an under socialised dog in rescue. So I think it is some of our business whereas I'm not at all sure what business it is of yours as I don't remember you offering help or guidance.


----------



## Guest (Nov 4, 2015)

I think the fact that she was likely totally over-dogged is genuine enough reason to return the dog to the breeder. 

We have no way of knowing now, but based on past experiences on this forum, I think if she had posted on here that she can't cope anymore, there would have been some good advice to return Paisley to the breeder, and a fairly supportive response with a few frustrated snarks interspersed in there. But mainly members would have been understanding and offered advice and support.


----------



## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


I think we know a great deal about why this happened.
A large component would be getting a dog in a situation where half of its breed traits were completely unsuitable, to the point of being unacceptable, for the situation she was forcing it into, and BM completely refusing to even consider that, despite being informed of the fact over and over.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Have just read some of BM posts,and come to the conclusion that Paisley is better of , and hopefully will now get the loving home she deserves.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> This forum is generally sympathetic and understanding, and is there when the smelly stuff hits the fan. They're there to offer support when a pet has to be rehomed for GENUINE reasons, they support the owner through the grief process, whether the animal has had to be rehomed, or has been PTS


Do you know what...it really irritates me that some seem to forget the level of support that these members with "sad lives" gives this place...As soon as something like this happens the good stuff that gets achieved is forgotten just so some can take the "high ground" 

Now if this thread was full of name calling and the start of a witch hunt then it would be different, but it is not, it is just letting people know the outcome of a very public story!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Do you know what...it really irritates me that some seem to forget the level of support that these members with "sad lives" gives this place...As soon as something like this happens the good stuff that gets achieved is forgotten just so some can take the "high ground"
> 
> Now if this thread was full of name calling and the start of a witch hunt then it would be different, but it is not, it is just letting people know the outcome of a very public story!


I think those same members should perhaps bear in mind that they have also received support quite a few times over in General Chat/Health.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

It also goes to show how unenforceable a breeder contract is


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I am sure Paisley will find a knowledgeable loving home very quick and by the sounds of it she is better off without her owner.

If I ever had to give up Bigby... which would only happen if I was seriously ill, I would never think to put him into rescue! I would contact his breeder and go from there.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> It also goes to show how unenforceable a breeder contract is


Not worth the paper its written on really unless someone wants to take it through small claims court or similar court procedures sadly.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Does anyone know of any cases where a breeder has actually gone to court to try and enforce a contract and been successful in getting a dog returned to them?


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

@Royoyo, I find it such a shame that you feel the way you do. It is not outside the forum rules to update on a past, or in this case, current member as the forum is open. Just as when we post our photos to a public space such as Facebook and they become public domain and owned by Facebook, so all of us take a risk in posting information here. Invariably when I have searched on a dog related issue, PF is often in the top results. If @BigMomma or indeed you, had wanted fair play then the polite thing to do is reply to those who took the time to help (far from sad lives, they are investing in assisting an owner in need, in good faith that they read and respond).

The forum is easily searchable too, it's very easy to track people's lives by the information that they supply, nobody is standing over them encouraging them to write the details of their lives down. If so then does that not make them somewhat falling short of their lives to not seek actual physical help. BigMomma was encouraged to see professional assistance in the form of a trainer or behaviourist but didn't as far as I can recall. A forum is not a training aid or a substitute for a human being with actual qualifications.

I think the very opposite of you. Yes, sometimes PF is very guilty of bullish tactics and users who goad the forum too. I am never convinced that forums like this can be clearly categorised into them and us anyway as the boundaries are breeched way too often.

In this instance though I see many people who took a lot of trouble to help BigMomma with her pup and she failed the forum by making excuses. We all have lives including the moderators and dogs of our own who need attention so it's doubly insulting when a forum member wastes time. I am always conscious that I have my Molls to train and play with, and find I am very impatient with users who creep into this this precious time.

As I've said to two recent posters on here who were out to cause trouble and divide, it's a Pet Forum and the consistent theme from most people is caring for the welfare of the pet/s. All too often threads are blamed for going off topic, bullying, negativity and we forget that amongst the accusations there is good advice. If we all took a moment to pick them out, then the pet/s in question would have better lives. Sadly only one of the posters this was aimed at learned this. The other didn't and was still being a cockwomble over the weekend. Belatedly Big Momma also fell short. Let's hope that for the good of the dog, Paisley is in a supportive place but don't blame the forum for the outcome every time. In this instance perhaps the forum can congratulate themselves for taking this poor dog out of a home that was clearly failing him.


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I am actually very suprised, she went through the tough times and I really thought she was out the other side!
Poor poor Paisley, such sad news


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Rather than jump in uninformed I looked through old posts and threads...

Over dogged is an understatement by my understanding of it.

Its a shame when people asked advise, don't like it and ignore it and blindly go ahead.

I've spent months researching, reading old threads, new threads, books, internet and the news with regards to what dog will suit my lifestyle and I - and what I can do to suit said dog too. It seems like the done thing to do... I'm still shocked at the number of people who don't!

Best wishes for Paisley's future and also BM's as regardless of anyone's feeling on her it still can't have been an easy thing to do even if it was wrong way of doing it.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> That's a shame but I don't know why people think it's ok to publically slate someone when they have no idea why this even happened.
> 
> You said yourself Natalie you don't know why she gave her up, right? So I don't know who you think you are to judge really.
> 
> ...


It's ironic that one of the first threads I participated in when joining this forum, you came in all guns blazing at how rude some people are, you then hurled abuse at a member because they don't sugar coat things and speak their mind and how you believe nobody would listen to their opinions because of their attitude.. yet here you are, accusing people of "having no life" because they show an interest in the welfare of a pup. Ironic huh!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Rach&Miko said:


> Over dogged
> 
> Best wishes for Paisley's future .


hmmm, its the first time Ive heard that expression before! Seems apt.
Also hoping that Paisley find a nice new home.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't know why you're all so offended that I said someone has ''no life'' lol the fact is that it's not your life and it's not your dog, you may have been very kind in offering advice to this person but when all's said and done it really has absolutely nothing to do with you. 

Like I said before you don't know this person or what sort of issues they are going through as to why they did what they did. 

How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? maybe this person has serious mental health issues, maybe this persons life has fallen apart and they had no other option or maybe they are just a bad person as you all seem to think but to judge and make a whole thread dedicated to it when you don't even know why it happened is a little harsh. 

All it is really to most of you is a form of entertainment, you don't really care deep down. When you click that little X in the corner it probably all gets forgotten about. 

Try to remember that's someone ELSE'S life you're picking apart. 

Bunch of busybodies.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> All it is really to most of you is a form of entertainment, you don't really care deep down. When you click that little X in the corner it probably all gets forgotten about.


Oh the irony 

That shows how little you know of the workings that go on behind the scenes..I wouldn't dream of speaking for others, but that isn't even close to the truth.
You may forget about the welfare of the dogs, I do not.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Royoyo said:


> I don't know why you're all so offended that I said someone has ''no life'' lol the fact is that it's not your life and it's not your dog, you may have been very kind in offering advice to this person but when all's said and done it really has absolutely nothing to do with you.
> 
> Like I said before you don't know this person or what sort of issues they are going through as to why they did what they did.
> 
> ...


Well thank god for busy bodies because without them a lot of animals being cruelly treated/neglected would go unreported. What your post actually shows is that you have no compassion for this dog, perhaps because until now you have never taken any interest in it. Of course this is just a forum in internet land but if we all took your attitude and didn't bother to answer the many requests for help and advice in the various sections then where would all those new dogs owners or people struggling with behavioural problems go for help? Not everyone can afford a behaviourist or trainer and sometimes such as when bereaved this is the only place people can come to talk about how they feel and know that the rest of us understand. Somehow I doubt you do though. How you can think we view it as entertainment is beyond me and suggests that perhaps you do. No one is picking apart the owner's life just the decision to put this dog in rescue when its breeder wanted it back and had a signed contract to that effect and the owner for not taking on board that this dog was beyond her capabilities in the first place. Where has anyone pulled Big Momma's life apart? You are right she might have issues/illness we know nothing about - we can only go on what she did share with us which was enough for us to know this dog was not right for her circumstances. By the way some of the members you have been so rude do go way beyond what you see/read on here, arranging rescue places and help for people in crisis.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Royoyo said:


> Like I said before you don't know this person or what sort of issues they are going through as to why they did what they did.
> 
> All it is really to most of you is a form of entertainment, you don't really care deep down.


If we don't know enough about a poster who was fairly prolific in their time here to make comment on the current situation then I'm not sure how you know enough about the people you're criticising to suggest that this is all just entertainment for them.

Several of these posters expended a great amount of time and effort to help the poster in question early on, right from when they were trying to settle on a suitable breed. They continued to do so even when all their good advice was rebuffed and the poster did the exact opposite. I'm pretty sure they didn't do that just for the sake of entertaining themselves.

Some of those same posters have, time and again, given their time and expertise in order to help dogs in need by finding them new homes or rescue spaces.

If doing those things make people "busybodies" then thank goodness we have them or there would be a good number of dogs who would be in far worse circumstances than they are now without them.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I actually thought that Nataliee was correct in starting this thread and bringing it all out in the open, to prevent the back stabbing, bitching going on in private messages, facebook, which I am sure BM would rather have, shes always seem to want to take the bull by the horns.

The point the breeder would have the dog back regardless of circumstances is one of the main points of upset here....

Yes for many the writing was on the wall, which many have stated but I cant say anyone has found it funny, just upsetting for everyone involved.

To throw up people have been a bunch of busy bodies is disgusting. Tried to help, been ignored and then this, its weird a person turns up who never comments and then suddenly appears from no where starts commenting!


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

You know what, I cannot be arsed to reply to ignorant assumptive idiots on here anymore. Taking my own advice, shoving @Royoyo on a growing ignore list of very dull time wasters and going to pay some attention to my dog and life.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Royoyo said:


> I don't know why you're all so offended that I said someone has ''no life'' lol the fact is that it's not your life and it's not your dog, you may have been very kind in offering advice to this person but when all's said and done it really has absolutely nothing to do with you.
> 
> Like I said before you don't know this person or what sort of issues they are going through as to why they did what they did.
> 
> ...


I think you'll find that a lot of members here do take an active interest in each others dogs and how they are doing. That often extends beyond the forum (people here are a members of other groups, linked via social media etc) and in some cases into 'real life'. So to say that everyone forgets the moment they leave the computer is nonsense.

No none of us knew Bigmomma personally, but based on what we did know (which was a fair bit based on her own words), it was strongly suggested by many members that this particular type of dog was perhaps unsuitable for her situation currently. More so when she had a previous breed that although was high energy, IMO is definitely not as demanding as a WL GSD, was rehomed by her as she found it difficult to cope. If that doesn't ring alarm bells to the dog savvy individual I don't know what does.


----------



## Guest (Nov 4, 2015)

Royoyo said:


> All it is really to most of you is a form of entertainment, you don't really care deep down. When you click that little X in the corner it probably all gets forgotten about.


Speaking of judging someone without knowing....

There was a cute little golden pup a while back with bad resource guarding. I don't know why but something about that pup really spoke to me, and I still see his little face and wonder what happened to him. It's like that for me for many dogs I "meet" on forums.
Like moonviolet's little beagle bitch, love that dog and wonder how she's doing.

I do get attached. It's silly I guess, but I do have real emotions about some of the dogs on here, and I don't just forget them when I close the forum out.

But that's neither here nor there really. I get this is an uncomfortable thread and that we're all going to have different reactions to it. I'd be angry too if I were BigMomma. But hey, many of us are angry for the pup so there ya go....


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Speaking of judging someone without knowing....
> 
> There was a cute little golden pup a while back with bad resource guarding. I don't know why but something about that pup really spoke to me, and I still see his little face and wonder what happened to him. It's like that for me for many dogs I "meet" on forums.
> Like moonviolet's little beagle bitch, love that dog and wonder how she's doing.
> ...


Odd that remember busy bodies with no lives trying to help there too!....


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

@Royoyo this was a comment I made to you back in August in the thread @Nettles mentioned earlier.

With respect its not just Meezey who finds their advice is either not followed or is thrown back in their face, I've read some sound advice from other members, blunt or not that gets thrown back with a tantrum if its not what the poster wants to hear. Why don't you come and join us in dog chat more often and contribute to some of those threads asking for advice and see if your approach (which I'm not knocking by the way) works any better.

and your response

I would love to, I'll take you up on that offer 

So when are you going to start helping out with some advice and give us busy bodies a rest


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> only concern is Paisley, and I know she is thriving and receiving everything she needs.


You are brave for coming back and posting this!

What you wouldn't see from the beginning wasn't that people wanted to be right and prove you wrong or you were going fail but that everyone's concern was Paisley from day one.

All I can say is given the amount of animals you have rehomed for being the wrong choice, I hope you do learn from this time! People didn't advise you on right or wrong breeds to spite you, or annoy you, but again because their only concern was the dog.


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Meezey said:


> You are brave for coming back and posting this!
> 
> What you wouldn't see from the beginning wasn't that people wanted to be right and prove you wrong or you were going fail but that everyone's concern was Paisley from day one.
> 
> All I can say is given the amount of animals you have rehomed for being the wrong choice, I hope you do learn from this time! People didn't advise you on right or wrong breeds to spite you, or annoy you, but again because their only concern was the dog.


I have actually tried to enquire into there being some kind of list for me to go on that says I cannot have any animals but I think for that to happen I would have to be involved in animal cruelty and I don't need to say anymore on that.

For as long as I live I will never own another animal of any kind and that is my personal choice and although words are just words and we are all strangers, I know what I've done, that's why I've left it so long on coming on here, i knew you would all find out and I have waited until I have accepted what's happened to say my side.

I'm not brave whatsoever, I felt you all deserved an explanation given all those who tried to help as best they could.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

+1 very brave for facing it.

Having read your previous posts I can understand how you got to where you were and puppy love can blind you to what is obvious to everyone else on the outside and no matter how much they tell you you don't want to believe and try to convince yourself as much as anybody else.

I keep getting notifications of replies so I shall leave it here for now before it gets too outdated lol

I hope your health improves.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes, if anything this should be a hard lesson for you that you're not a suitable dog owner. Whether that changes as your family grows up and circumstances change for you, I don't know. But now? Please don't get another dog! Unfortunately whilst all these problems played out for you, ultimately Paisley is the one who has been let down and it's such a shame that people in these circumstances never do think long term about the impacts life will have on their dog and the compromises and effort that will need to be made to accommodate these changes.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> I fully expect this post to be picked to pieces


I don't think it will be. I think everyone will be grateful that you had the guts to come back and give your side and can only echo what @Meezey said that none of us wanted to see you fail.


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Whilst a lot of pet people may not agree with it a lot of working dogs are kept in kennels outside, often because the dogs are sometimes a bit too crazy to keep in the house. During summer our garden door was nearly always open as this was where my GSD chose to be, even now with the weather getting colder he often gets too warm inside and prefers to be outside.
Police kennels do not have beds in them, it's not because they don't care for the dogs it's because the dogs trash them, end up with blockages etc same goes for toys (and the fact that toys are used for training). Straw or similar is sometimes used for pups because the broods trash the vet bed, it's not because the breeders are stingy, it's because giving them vet bed is pointless, and again could potentially cause a blockage. It doesn't make them bad owners, and it certainly does not make them a BYB
And if someone put one of my pups in rescue instead of sending them back to me because they made the decision that I wasn't suitable for the dog to go back to I would be absolutely livid too, whilst being abusive is probably not the best way to go about it I can't say I blame him


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> You're welcome to your opinion considering you started this thread I don't exactly expect you of all people to be on my side, you didn't see it for yourself, I don't care what the reasons are, I would never have sent her back to him and especially now after all this. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me on here, I am glad Paisley is safe and happy.
> Abusive is an understatement!


It was his dog BigMomma, he has a right to be angry. We only have your word for all this, he hasn't got a right to reply... Just so you know I was told she was in rescue and I was not on here, but I asked people to let the breeder know, because I know most breeders would be so angry to find out there dog was in rescue. So I am responsible for him knowing. He's that bad yet tried to get her back?? Don't know many by ( as you called him) who would of bothered.


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

If you all think I made the wrong choice in what I've done. That's fine, I'm not going to challenge anyone or disagree with anyone. I can only say that I did what I honestly thought would be best for Paisley and after numerous amounts of apologies to the breeder when he made it clear how unhappy he was, now all I receive is abuse and yeah I probably deserve that too. I loved that dog with all my heart and that's exactly why I did what I did. 
You are all right in what you say but I went with my heart and am happy to face any consequences from doing so.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> If you all think I made the wrong choice in what I've done. That's fine, I'm not going to challenge anyone or disagree with anyone. I can only say that I did what I honestly thought would be best for Paisley and after numerous amounts of apologies to the breeder when he made it clear how unhappy he was, now all I receive is abuse and yeah I probably deserve that too. I loved that dog with all my heart and that's exactly why I did what I did.
> You are all right in what you say but I went with my heart and am happy to face any consequences from doing so.


But you aren't facing the consequences Paisley is.............


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

BigMomma said:


> I'm not at all saying he is "that bad"
> I misjudged him when I called him a byb and that just shows how much I know. But i honestly don't care how working dogs are "meant to be kept" Paisley was our family dog, never experienced a kennel in her life and I didn't want her to go back to that.


You didn't want her to go to kennels ... So you handed her over to rescue? 

How many times were you told to walk away of something didn't feel.right? Which it obviously wasn't if you didn't want Paisley to go back to the breeder? It wasn't "too late" until you took pup home.

But yes, I agree with the other, very brave of you to come back and explain...


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> Oh believe me when I say am.
> I can't stress anymore that all I've tried to do is what I thought was best for her and I know she's okay, alright she's not back with the breeder and I've expressed my reasons for that but what more can I possibly do now? I've come back on here to relive all the heartache I've been through and am still going through to give you an explanation, I don't expect anyone to agree with me at all, I've not asked for that. I just don't know what more I can do. I can't justify any of it, of course the breeder has a right to be furious with me but I'd rather that than send Paisley back to a situation I didn't think she would be better off in. I stand by my decision. Yes you've heard my side and not his. If he wants to come on here and share his side. I urge him to do so. It makes no difference to me, what's done is done and Paisley hasn't been sold on, mistreated, left somewhere alone or anything of the kind. She's fed, she's exercised, she's socialised and she's being trained. I can't ask for more than that and I am slowly wading my way through all the pain this is still causing. I've said my piece and honestly don't have anymore words for this


Do you know I think I would of had more sympathy for you, if it was the first time this happened, but it's not, might be heart ache for you, but it's heartache you brought on yourself and you brought on Paisley and your other dog you rehomed. You asked advice about breed you ignored it. All the reasons you gave her up were reason people tried to tell you that she wasn't the right breed for you and your situation, you ignored it and threw in back in people's faces even those who were less rude than me. My sympathy lies with Paisley and your other dogs, who I am sure we're heartbroken too.


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I am not commenting any more on this as I am starting to get seriously p off all I can hear it me me me me me.....


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> I can't justify any of it


Then stop trying too!


----------



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> In some ways this response will add fuel to the fire, of which I could not care less whatsoever and once I have said my piece I will be turning off email notifications and logging out for good.
> I have been waiting for PF to discover Paisley no longer being with me, it's taken longer than I thought it would and I'm not sure why that is as I wasn't savvy to the fact things got round as quickly as they did.
> I'll start from the lead up to Paisley leaving.
> Early September, I will admit, being a mother of two young girls and training and fully looking after a working line GSD approaching adolescence was getting on top of me. My partner was working longer days and longer hours to cover what we had to pay for, and he was barely ever at home. Paisley was becoming uncontrollable on walks again despite really improving and me making as much effort as I could, our behaviourist all of a sudden became totally unavailable, wouldn't respond to messages or calls, I had started up taking Paisley to agility classes and because of her recent change in behaviour I could no longer attend on my own. I reached out to a specialised german shepherd rescue, first off just to try to get some more help on what I was doing wrong, there was only so much advice I could ask for on here before either being tarnished unable to cope (which I couldn't and as someone who was really trying to keep everything together I really didn't need to hear that from total strangers on a pet forum, whether it was the minority or not) the rescue responded quickly to me and after speaking and exchanging advice for over a week, I was offered a home visit to see if they could help further and I accepted (never on the grounds to rehome Paisley, but to try to turn my situation around as I was getting no support from family or our behaviourist who I have now complained about) So I was visited by one of the founders of the rescue. In the running up to our visit, I personally had some life changing news that I absolutely refuse to share on a public forum considering how you all think you already know so much about me, judge all you wish, I have no cares left to give.
> ...


Thanks for the explanation. I hope Paisley finds a good knowledgeable home and that you yourself can concentrate on your own life and children and discontinue owning anymore animals - though I've just seen that you said you won't be getting anymore - but one day you may stumble across a cute small puppy needing a home and temptation just gets too much?


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Not that it matters now but she'd only been living in a home 4-5 months so I'm sure she would have been fine going back into kennels, they are adaptable dogs. I doubt she would have been there long either as the breeder would have found her a more suitable home. Anyway I hope from all this that the dog gets a fantastic new home where she can thrive


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nataliee said:


> breeder would have found her a more suitable home


You don't think this may be why the rescue hasn't handed this dog back to the breeder. They may think that the breeders judgment when picking a good home isn't up to much, or maybe they know it isn't


----------



## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Meezey said:


> It was his dog BigMomma, he has a right to be angry. We only have your word for all this, he hasn't got a right to reply... Just so you know I was told she was in rescue and I was not on here, but I asked people to let the breeder know, because I know most breeders would be so angry to find out there dog was in rescue. So I am responsible for him knowing. He's that bad yet tried to get her back?? Don't know many by ( as you called him) who would of bothered.


Actually there is a German shepherd breeder local to here who take all their dogs back.
I swear they sell the dogs to family homes, pretty much knowing many will fail due to how reactive their lines are, and then get enough back to be able to profit twice, by reselling them to working/security homes for more than they could sell the pup for in the first place!

Not saying this is the case here, but there are other reasons to get your pup handed back other than altruism


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

rona said:


> You don't think this may be why the rescue hasn't handed this dog back to the breeder. They may think that the breeders judgment when picking a good home isn't up to much, or maybe they know it isn't


Maybe, but unfortunately sometimes people lie to get what they want (not saying this is the case with BM) and the breeders believe the dog has gone to a good home and then some months later they find there pup ends up elsewhere. Same thing can happen to rescues too
BM had been keeping the breeder up to date with Paisley up until she went into rescue, so as far as he was aware everything was fine.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Thank you to BM for having the guts to come back and 

I do think the first port of call should have been Paisley's breeder - even if it was only to ask if he might know of any suitable homes and to explain the troubles being faced. If it was felt he was not good enough to have her back then perhaps a puppy should not have been bought from him in the first place? WL GSD are high energy dogs and need active homes with plenty to do. Family homes are not always wrong for these types of dogs so long as the owners are fully committed to ensuring their dog gets adequate mental stimulation and physical exercise. I do hope that the rescue she has gone to are experienced enough to recognise that a WL GSD is often a more challenging prospect than a show or pet bred GSD and that they actively seek out a suitable home so she won't be bounced from one place to another.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Whats done is done and can't be undone now. I think BM has been brave to come back and tell us what happened and to be honest. She could easily have come on here and said she gave Paisley up because of a death or serious illness or made up a story about her biting one of the children or the unhappy neighbour but she didn't, she has at least been honest and admitted she should never have got her in the first place. I really hope you stick to your word and don't get tempted into another dog in the future. Whilst I can understand you not wanting Paisley to go back to the breeder if you felt he did not keep his dogs appropriately you did sign a contract which you have broken. I've had to sign a contract with the rescue my dogs are from saying they will go back there if for any reason we can't keep them, I don't like it, I wish I could make my own arrangements for them in my will but I signed it so I will honour it. @Moobli also makes an excellent point about hoping the rescue are experienced enough to make sure Paisely goes to people who understand a WL GSD rather than a family home but then again the breeder made that mistake himself by letting her go to a inappropriate home in the first place.

I think you are probably best to walk away from here now as its like a raw wound that needs to heal and raking over things with all of us lot giving our opinions won't help.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

What a shame.

Personally, I'm both relieved and satisfied to know that this dog is still alive and, hopefully, faces a brighter, more prospective future with an owner who is more familiar and qualified to deal with the intrinsic needs of the animal.
I'm relieved because the dog hadn't been locked in a shed at the bottom of the garden and forgotten about or hadn't been taken out and shot, or hadn't been chemically destroyed because the owner realised they could no longer cope with the dog.

Despite everything, in the end BigMomma did the right thing and I think that's what counts.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Seeing as this just popped up again, thought I'd add that Paisley is STILL in rescue and is a LONG way from being suitable to rehome  so they are going to continue to work with her and try the police again at some point. Rescues picking up other people's messes AGAIN. Poor bloody dog... :'(


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Seeing as this just popped up again, thought I'd add that Paisley is STILL in rescue and is a LONG way from being suitable to rehome  so they are going to continue to work with her and try the police again at some point. Rescues picking up other people's messes AGAIN. Poor bloody dog... :'(


How come she's not suitable to be rehomed?  that's really sad.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Poor pup


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Meezey said:


> Seeing as this just popped up again, thought I'd add that Paisley is STILL in rescue and is a LONG way from being suitable to rehome  so they are going to continue to work with her and try the police again at some point. Rescues picking up other people's messes AGAIN. Poor bloody dog... :'(


Wow  I knew she'd gone into rescue but I had no idea she was still there!

Sorry (actually no, I'm not sorry at all!) to all the apologists who insist on defending these types, but I've got no sympathy for anyone except the poor dog in this sorry situation.

BigMomma, for the love of god never get another animal, you don't deserve them.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Seeing as this just popped up again, thought I'd add that Paisley is STILL in rescue and is a LONG way from being suitable to rehome  so they are going to continue to work with her and try the police again at some point. Rescues picking up other people's messes AGAIN. Poor bloody dog... :'(


How come she's unsuitable for rehoming?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

labradrk said:


> How come she's unsuitable for rehoming?


They didn't say just that she needed a lot of work and it would be a long time before she was suitable to rehome seems they think she would be better with the Police?


----------



## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

How utterly sad  Poor Paisley. I hope something can be done for her soon.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Fluffster said:


> How utterly sad  Poor Paisley. I hope something can be done for her soon.


I would have taken her


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I would have taken her


One of the reasons it was such a shame she didn't come back and ask for help as there may have been other experienced GSD homes prepared to take her on  Do you know if she is in a foster home or kennels?


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Can you not take her from rescue meez?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Just re reading one of the previous threads and came across this statement from Paisley's owner

"I'd just like to round this off by saying i apologise that I posted on here, asking for anything at all really and yes, to say I came on here for advice originally and completely ignored it is a true statement, and I'm very glad I did so actually no, I have no idea why I continued to post! My mistake. 

However I do find it hilarious that as soon as you can't understand the point of the post, or what the OP is saying, the thread suddenly becomes a bashing arena! "Animal welfare" is thrown around like a ball! Haha. 
I'm now off to ruin my dogs life and moan about it forever! "

Makes me so very very sad


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sad to hear she is still in rescue  hopefully she'll find a new home soon


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm now off to ruin my dogs life and moan about it forever!


Shakes head sadly...never a truer word said!


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> Can you not take her from rescue meez?


I contacted them to see if she was still available for rehoming as she is still listed on their website, they said she wasn't ready or suitable for rehoming and that they were going to try the Police with her again. She's a puppy ffs, how can she be that unsuitable to rehome


----------



## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

It seems odd that she has been deemed blanket unsuitable to rehome without knowing more information about you and the kind of home you could offer.


----------



## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Mind you, I had quite an unpleasant experience with a rescue recently (you might have seen on FB) where I called to enquire about a very elderly cocker spaniel and the woman on the end was basically pretty rude and suspicious of me and very dismissive. I get that rescues must get a lot of enquiries and that they are busy, but a bit of politeness and interest costs nothing. I'd have thought they would be grateful someone was offering a home to a 19-year-old cocker spaniel who looked desperately unhappy in rescue, but there we go. It's put me off contacting them again and made me a bit wary of contacting rescues in future as I felt quite upset by the whole thing.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Meezey said:


> I contacted them to see if she was still available for rehoming as she is still listed on their website, they said she wasn't ready or suitable for rehoming and that they were going to try the Police with her again. She's a puppy ffs, how can she be that unsuitable to rehome


Would the police taken her on anyway, especially as she's at the age she is with no training? But I suppose if she's a great dog then a good handler could easily work through any training issues.
It just seems odd that she's been there for so long but no info has been displayed about her for potential new owners. Was saying earlier that am hoping that she's a failed foster & will be staying where she is.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I contacted them to see if she was still available for rehoming as she is still listed on their website, they said she wasn't ready or suitable for rehoming and that they were going to try the Police with her again. She's a puppy ffs, how can she be that unsuitable to rehome


that seems really odd. I thought the police would only take those of sound temperament, seems really fishy.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

This is so sad to hear she's still in rescue  Such a young dog that has had no life so far!

I wonder if some of the reason she's unsuitable is because she's a high drive working line with impulse control issues? I mean, I know BigMomma said she was having trouble with her as a pup with barking/lunging and screaming at people, so I would assume those issues are still apparent, but more ingrained now she's slightly older and making her harder to control.

Still don't understand why the rescue never handed Paisley back over to her breeder either. Surely that would have been preferable than spending all this time in rescue? And he would have likely had more knowledge and experience in managing her. Although saying that, the rescue obviously have their reasons and if he was so keen to sell BigMomma ( inexperienced, with two young children ) a high drive working line GSD, perhaps he's not that best placed to suitably match her to another owner. Who knows.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

The police had already taken her on trial but I think she was initially quite nervous & they needed longer to assess if she was suitable but the rescue only gave them a certain amount of time, something along those lines, I'm not sure the full story.
If they are wanting to try her with the police again & are saying she is not ready to be rehomed then I'm assuming she may have some issues that they do not think/prepared to risk if the average owner can cope with


----------



## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

@Royoyo It is funny you bring up people hitting the x button and forgetting about it.I would like to see how many people forgot about Oliver when they hit the x button.When i came on i was only involved in one discussion and that was it.When the closing of that thread hit there were tons of people that had fallowed it from the beginning and wished me well and such.I wonder how many of those people hit the x and just forgot about them.I will admit that i have a very short and somewhat unreliable memory but there are certain dogs on here that i still wonder about and fallow and truly do care about.So much so that i wish i lived over there so i could have the opportunity to meet them and their owners.So i think that comment is very out of place and very wrong.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Nataliee said:


> The police had already taken her on trial but I think she was initially quite nervous & they needed longer to assess if she was suitable but the rescue only gave them a certain amount of time, something along those lines, I'm not sure the full story.
> If they are wanting to try her with the police again & are saying she is not ready to be rehomed then I'm assuming she may have some issues that they do not think/prepared to risk if the average owner can cope with


See thats odd too. Police say we'd like more time with her, rescue says no...........................


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> See thats odd too. Police say we'd like more time with her, rescue says no...........................


I don't know if that was the case exactly, Kirsty had mentioned it in the thread previously but there's too many pages for me to search through to find it


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh poor pup I feel so sorry the pup is still in rescue


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Makes you think if they have applied a blanket "not suitable for rehoming" what kinda shape he was in when he went there.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

You do have to wonder how messed up such a young dog is if the rescue are saying she's not rehomeable.....

Although I still wonder if those issues whatever they may be, may be something a good working home could sort/manage quite easily.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I might be wrong but the way I understood @Meezey was that the rescue are saying she isn't ready to be rehomed yet, not that she isn't rehomeable, just not yet.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Does anyone know whether Paisley was rehomed?


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I see she is still on the rescue website as "under assessment".


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Moobli said:


> I see she is still on the rescue website as "under assessment".


I think someone said recently that she was still there, seems an awful long time to assess her so perhaps the fosterer has decided to keep her.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Or perhaps the rescue haven't updated their website yet. I hope she found a suitable home.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

She's still in rescue 

@SLB has just shared this on Facebook:




__ https://www.facebook.com/egsrrehab/posts/1536762329964450


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Poor baby


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Such a shame.

I wasn't around for the original saga but by the looks of it after a skim through this thread it is all down to a classic case of owner and breed being mismatched.

Always the dogs that have to pay sadly


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Shame she’s in the UK, I know a couple people here who would snatch her up - and I’d get to dogsit!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Shame it didn't work with the police. I'm also still really curious as to what issues the poor girl has that has made her unrehomeable up to this point  

Will share on my FB later on.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

She is half (younger) sister to my dog and will need a very active home. I really hope she gets it. I will share her with my friends and on FB.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Heart breaking. Surely there is someone out there looking for a challenge and a dog to take part in working trials or similar with.

@Moobli I hadn't realised she was related to your dog.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Frustrating. She is also related to my dog, her grandad is Harrys dad. Breeder had tried to get her back, rescue were not co operative


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


I believe the breeder tried to get her back but the owner refused to let him for some reason (didn't feel he was suitable I think).


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


Pretty sure the rescue refused to allow the breeder to take her...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

From Big Momma's post on page 4 of this thread about the breeder

Now- to address the breeder.
First off would like to say a huge thank you to whoever has been relaying whatever has happened on here and what I've said to the breeder himself, you've aided in months worth of abuse from this man who I have tried my best to ignore.
I did not tell the breeder I was having problems because I didn't think Paisley would be any better off back with him. Upon our visit to view the litter, the mother was kept in an outside unheated barn with the floor covered in straw, no windows and no ventilation with her large litter of puppies. There were two GSD bitches in outside pens with nothing but an empty water dish in each, no bedding, no shelter from the weather. The breeder told us they were two bitches that had been bought from him as puppies from different people and returned months on for whatever reason, he told us not to approach the pens as they were aggressive and even he kept his distance. Yes I am aware we still went ahead and purchased Paisley from him, thats because I was already in love and it was simply too late emotionally for me to walk away. Without going any further as I am not into blame games or any such thing- thats all I need to say on the breeder. He has since found out through said member on here that paisley is no longer with us and I have received nothing but heavy abuse, it was just this evening (a matter of hours ago) I received another email from him calling me a c*nt.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

What about the stud dog owner?


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

It’s really a shame the breeder is not allowed the dog back, especially as it seems they would have taken her back. 
Something here doesn’t add up.

We’re only given the owner’s account of what the breeder says/does, and the breeder is not here to give their version. Forgive me if I don’t take the owner’s account as gospel - owner who had already given up a husky and one other dog before getting this one.... 
Granted, I’m not impressed that the breeder would allow the dog to go to such an inappropriate home either, but there is no telling what transpired with those conversations, wouldn’t be the first time a breeder has been fleeced by a potential buyer.

Basically, there’s the breeder’s story, the owner’s story, the rescue’s story, and somewhere in there is what actually happened. Either way a dog needs a home, I hope she gets one....


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

It's really odd all round. Given that she was only I think 6-7 months(?) when she was relinquished, and genetically she's a decent dog (well, the dog side, don't know about the bitch), I do find it strange she's required a year of "rehab" and she's still described as "mad". Her youth would have surely made her far easier to work with than a mature dog that was well stuck in it's ways. Makes me question what the rescue are doing with her, and what sort of elusive home they hope to find for her.


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


From memory was the breeder not wanting to have her back but the rescue wouldn't let him?

Poor girl  really hope she finds a good home soon


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


According to what @Nataliee said a page back she was initially quite nervous and the police wanted longer to assess her which the rescue obviously weren't cooperative with.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Reading through the FB post, it’s hard to figure out how she is being kept. Is she in the rescue’s kennels, not a home? If one of her issues is socialization, I would think she needs lots of outings in lots of different environments.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Why will the breeder not have her back? Be interesting to know why failed for the police as that would have a bearing on her suitability as a performance dog.


The breeder wanted her back and contacted the rescue but they wouldn't allow it. He put the police in touch with the rescue and they took her on trial but once out of her environment she was nervous and had clearly had no socialisation. They returned her to the rescue with the recommendation that she be returned to the breeder so he could work on her socialisation and training and then they would be interested in assessing her again.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Reading through the FB post, it's hard to figure out how she is being kept. Is she in the rescue's kennels, not a home? If one of her issues is socialization, I would think she needs lots of outings in lots of different environments.


And a good groom too!!!


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Moobli said:


> And a good groom too!!!


Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, she might be majorly blowing coat, but geez, if you're posting a dog for public viewing at least pull out the bigger chunks of loose fur no?

IDK... I'm really getting a weird feeling here. I feel like there is a LOT more to this story... 
Would the rescue let someone not affiliated with the rescue foster her for a while, just to get her out and trained a bit? I find it hard to believe she only has a 10 minute attention span, I've yet to meet a WL GSD who wasn't a creepy stalker dog attentive to your every move.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Reading through the FB post, it's hard to figure out how she is being kept. Is she in the rescue's kennels, not a home? If one of her issues is socialization, I would think she needs lots of outings in lots of different environments.


There's a video of her further down the FaceBook page -she's in kennels.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Lauren5159 said:


> There's a video of her further down the FaceBook page -she's in kennels.


Ha ha! Just saw that and was coming on to post it.
https://www.facebook.com/egsrrehab/videos
Yes, it looks like she's in kennels  And has been for how long now? 
She really needs to be in a home and getting plenty of outings to improve her socialization. If the breeder has offered to provide this why not let them?


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/egsrrehab/videos


----------



## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

My brushing hand got a twitch seeing all those poofies! 
I know a girl who has a kennels local for another GSD rescue and she takes the kennel dogs to get brushed and bathed weekly


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The only reasoning I can see for the rescue not handing her back to her breeder is that they have reservations about his competence/environment/judgement etc. Remember, it also depends on what picture was painted of him when she was handed in......

ETA: And no doubt her energy is so hard to get on top of because she needs individual 1:1 time which is obviously of limited time in a kennel/rescue environment. She really needs a home, poor girl.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

It’s sadly ironic that the owner who turned him in was complaining about the breeder having dogs in kennels and yet that is exactly what seems to have happened to the dog she didn’t want to end up in kennels...


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Y.
> Would the rescue let someone not affiliated with the rescue foster her for a while, just to get her out and trained a bit? I find .


Agree - it's hard to see how she's ever going to develop skills / improve her chances of being rehomed without this - I know the rescue will be doing their best but with other dogs / demands on time, she won't be getting the 1:1 she desperately needs

Very, very sad


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Am I reading correctly on a public page that the breeder offered the rescue money for this bitch and they still declined? 
And the only complaint about the breeder is that he keeps dogs in kennels? (Exactly what the rescue is doing?) 
What am I missing here? 
Sounds like this could have been solved a long time ago.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

There's definitely something amiss. 

Nothing really adds up


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Am I reading correctly on a public page that the breeder offered the rescue money for this bitch and they still declined?
> And the only complaint about the breeder is that he keeps dogs in kennels? (Exactly what the rescue is doing?)
> What am I missing here?
> Sounds like this could have been solved a long time ago.


It all sounds really odd!

This bitch sounds as though she really needs some 1:1 training and care - which she will not get in a kennel environment.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Moobli said:


> It all sounds really odd!
> 
> This bitch sounds as though she really needs some 1:1 training and care - which she will not get in a kennel environment.


Well, either there are massive temperament issues, or she's not being trained, or whoever is doing the training has no clue. Because if it takes you 6 months to get 10 minutes of attention out of a WL GSD there is a major problem.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> There's definitely something amiss.
> 
> Nothing really adds up


That's what I thought. I went back and had a read of all the threads in this saga. And...

I'm stumped


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Reading back this post from Big Momma jumped out at me - I wonder if she knows poor Paisley is still in rescue kennels

"I don't want any sympathy from anyone! 
I've stated why I've come back. 
*She didn't go into kennels in the rescue. She went straight into foster with another GSD. If they were going to put her in a kennel and leave her there I wouldn't have let her go.*

I'll never forgive myself which is what im sure you all want to hear and more."


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Reading back this post from Big Momma jumped out at me - I wonder if she knows poor Paisley is still in rescue kennels
> 
> "I don't want any sympathy from anyone!
> I've stated why I've come back.
> ...


I don't know that it matters would it? 
I'm sure bigmomma had to relinquish any rights as an owner when she turned Paisley in.

This whole thread is such a cautionary tale on so many levels.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I don't know that it matters would it?
> I'm sure bigmomma had to relinquish any rights as an owner when she turned Paisley in.
> 
> This whole thread is such a cautionary tale on so many levels.


Oh yes I'm sure she did have to relinquish all rights but she seemed so sure at the time that Paisley wasn't going to end up in kennels which was part of her beef with the breeder yet that is exactly what happened.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I don't know that it matters would it?
> I'm sure bigmomma had to relinquish any rights as an owner when she turned Paisley in.
> 
> This whole thread is such a cautionary tale on so many levels.


Totally!

Breeders - only sell puppies to homes who can prove (as far as possible) that they are suitable and worthy of your precious pup. That they can provide physically, emotionally and mentally for the breed and individual as a puppy and as an adult.

Puppy buyers - research the breeds you are interested in, be honest with yourself about what you can provide in terms of companionship, exercise, training and play. Choose a breed that will fit happily into your current and foreseeable situation and if you cannot provide for the breed or type of dog you desire then wait until you can.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh yes I'm sure she did have to relinquish all rights but she seemed so sure at the time that Paisley wasn't going to end up in kennels which was part of her beef with the breeder yet that is exactly what happened.


Right, so if her only beef with the breeder was that he might keep her in kennels, and the rescue took her presumably with the reassurance she would not be in kennels, but now she is, wouldn't it be perfectly fine for her to go to the breeder anyway - since he has offered to pay for her?

I don't understand why the rescue wouldn't let the breeder take her. 
Whatever he offered to pay for her, I'm sure they've spent it and then some keeping her for 6 months.

And this is a rescue run entirely on donations? If I were a donor, I'd definitely be interested in why a dog is being kept in "rehab" kennels with no apparent improvement, and not returned to the breeder, especially if the breeder offered to pay for her.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Right, so if her only beef with the breeder was that he might keep her in kennels, and the rescue took her presumably with the reassurance she would not be in kennels, but now she is, wouldn't it be perfectly fine for her to go to the breeder anyway - since he has offered to pay for her?
> 
> I don't understand why the rescue wouldn't let the breeder take her.
> Whatever he offered to pay for her, I'm sure they've spent it and then some keeping her for 6 months.
> ...


I have no idea why the rescue won't let her go to the breeder but can only assume they were told things about him and so made up their own minds that he wasn't suitable. I don't suppose we are ever likely to know the answer to that question. I can't remember if the breeder had a signed contract that Paisley should go back to him, if he did then presumably he could have got her back using that.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh yes I'm sure she did have to relinquish all rights but she seemed so sure at the time that Paisley wasn't going to end up in kennels which was part of her beef with the breeder yet that is exactly what happened.


Sadly once a dog is given up to someone else's care (whether it be rescue, breeder, friend, free to good home, whatever) you cannot guarantee what kind of future that dog will have. I would like to think that BigMomma did care enough to think Paisley would have a better chance in rescue but who knows ...

It is very worrying to me that Paisley has now been in rescue for more than half her life and she is still deemed untrained, unsocialised and with such a short attention span. WL GSDs are generally much more active than non working lines, they love to work, they need stimulation, training and plenty of exercise and companionship. I can only see her behaviour deteriorating if she has to spend much more time in kennels.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Has anyone outright asked on the rescue page why she can't go back to the breeder? 

I hate the way they say on their post, "is anyone mad enough to have a go?" Like it's all about taking a shot at her and if it doesn't work out, meh. No worries. 

You don't 'have a go' at taking on a dog! 

Such a shame for her. Really, she sounds like a young dog who's had no outlet for her energy and lacks focus through lack of training. An over-aroused dog with poor impulse control and no training is not 'mad'. What's mad is that she's in the situation she's currently in. 

So many holes in the story, so much of the story missing and so many unanswered questions and she's the only one suffering for it.

I truly wish I had the time for her. I truly do.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Moobli said:


> *Puppy buyers - research the breeds you are interested in, be honest with yourself about what you can provide in terms of companionship, exercise, training and play. Choose a breed that will fit happily into your current and foreseeable situation and if you cannot provide for the breed or type of dog you desire then wait until you can.*


^ THIS. I wish people would be more honest with themselves when it comes to dog ownership.

As a child, I adored Huskies and Malamutes. Dreamed of owning one but as an adult, I released I loved dogs which could be let off lead, trusted (well not fully trusted but you know what I mean) around cats and who weren't as "primitive".

So now I am finally getting a dog from a good breeder, I researched and found a breed which is similar in looks but with less of the edge of the Sibes and Mals.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Agree that it makes no sense not allowing the breeder to have her, given that if that were the case she would have likely be rehomed long ago and not having to spend most of her young life in kennels.


Lauren5159 said:


> Has anyone outright asked on the rescue page why she can't go back to the breeder?
> 
> I hate the way they say on their post, "is anyone mad enough to have a go?" Like it's all about taking a shot at her and if it doesn't work out, meh. No worries.
> 
> ...


No one has asked - I'll bite! not that I'll get a reply at this time on a Sunday.

I'm sure she's a super dog, probably going bananas from being kennelled with no stimulation, poor girl


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Lauren5159 said:


> Has anyone outright asked on the rescue page why she can't go back to the breeder?
> 
> I hate the way they say on their post, "is anyone mad enough to have a go?" Like it's all about taking a shot at her and if it doesn't work out, meh. No worries.
> 
> ...


I have now asked the rescue directly about the breeder, but don't really expect to get a response.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Moobli said:


> Sadly once a dog is given up to someone else's care (whether it be rescue, breeder, friend, free to good home, whatever) you cannot guarantee what kind of future that dog will have. I would like to think that BigMomma did care enough to think Paisley would have a better chance in rescue but who knows ...
> 
> It is very worrying to me that Paisley has now been in rescue for more than half her life and she is still deemed untrained, unsocialised and with such a short attention span. WL GSDs are generally much more active than non working lines, they love to work, they need stimulation, training and plenty of exercise and companionship. I can only see her behaviour deteriorating if she has to spend much more time in kennels.


Yes I know that but BigMomma didn't which in itself is worrying. I think we are all worried about how long she has been in rescue which is why so many of us tried to advise her not to get Paisley in the first place.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I am really tempted to comment on the state she is in and their (imo) very badly worded advert too but there is probably little point.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I've asked too.

I've also asked what exactly their rehab consists of if, after six months, she's focusing only for 10 minutes.


----------



## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> ^ THIS. I wish people would be more honest with themselves when it comes to dog ownership.
> 
> As a child, I adored Huskies and Malamutes. Dreamed of owning one but as an adult, I released I loved dogs which could be let off lead, trusted (well not fully trusted but you know what I mean) around cats and who weren't as "primitive".
> 
> ...


Yep! I would love a WL GSD or Malinois myself and was actually in contact with a very good Malinois breeder until I had to drop out. I`m only working part time at the minute and I often have full weeks off so right now I`d have time but by September I`ll be doing full time again and I know I won`t have the time/energy for one.
I`m really hoping to get one in 2018/19 when I hopefully have more time and energy! Right now though the only dog for me in the near future would be an adult rescue with known energy levels/time required. 
I see a lot of it, people want this dog, don`t care when you warn them about that breed because "a dog is a dog" and its the dog who suffers.

Poor Paisley. I hope she gets somewhere where she can use her full potential. Half her life in kennels is no fun for any dog, never mind a drivey, energetic WL GSD


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

From my earlier conversations with the breeder there was indeed a contract to say Paisley should go back if there were any problems, but sadly I don't think those contracts are worth the paper they are written on.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Moobli said:


> From my earlier conversations with the breeder there was indeed a contract to say Paisley should go back if there were any problems, but sadly I don't think those contracts are worth the paper they are written on.


They're not, unfortunately  I wish they were.

I still don't understand why they won't give her back? It's so infuriating!


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Reading through the comments on the FB post, it seems the rescue has been asked several questions that they have not answered, just a formulaic “go to the website and apply for her” answer. 
No response if she’s good with kids or other dogs.
No response to why she didn’t work out with the police.
No response to if they’ll allow her to go to a working home...

All they say is that she was in foster but “having no positive life experiences entered rehab” where she has been since November 2015. 
I don’t know what “no positive life experiences” means, does anyone else?


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Moobli said:


> I am really tempted to comment on the state she is in and their (imo) very badly worded advert too but there is probably little point.


Agree, I thought she was wet from swimming or something from the first glance at those photos, but realised it was her coat  poor condition, crap pictures, crap write up! "the mad one no one wants"......not mad, just totally failed from all angles!!



Lauren5159 said:


> I've asked too.
> 
> I've also asked what exactly their rehab consists of if, after six months, she's focusing only for 10 minutes.


If they've been "rehabing" her for a year and it's not working, something is clearly very wrong.......she's in totally the wrong environment, and the more I think about it the more it winds me up she's been put in this situation.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I don't know what "no positive life experiences" means, does anyone else?


Beats me! Hence why I asked what their rehab consists of.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Moobli said:


> I am really tempted to comment on the state she is in and their (imo) very badly worded advert too but there is probably little point.


I don't have Facebook but did click the link and have to say the advert made me go :Bored.

The whole thing smells fishier than Grimsby Docks to me enguin


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

Followed this story a bit though dont know the full ins and outs but must say she looks a gorgeous dog. I'm really surprised there seemingly has not been a lot of interest in her - young, beautiful, well bred. I do hope she gets a home - she deserves a happy ever after


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

If I was in a position too I'd seriously consider taking her on as a foster. She could tag along to our training classes and get out and about with 1:1 time that she obviously needs. But alas, I'm not in that position unfortunately. It does frustrate you though doesn't it?  

It does seem there is more to the story, but as for why they won't give her back, as I previously said and what some others have mentioned, the rescue obviously have their reasons. Still, as pointed out, what has keeping her in rescue achieved thus far that her breeder could not have achieved potentially quicker? 

Is the rescue a reputable one btw? Like does it have a good reputation does anyone know?


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Looks to me like she just entertains herself, she shot straight past that person in the video grabbed a toy and ran like it was routine.
They don't appear to be able to brush her, can't get her to sit for a photo. This makes me concerned as to what their 'rehab' actually consists of.
If I'd lived closer I would have asked if I could take her out for 'day trips' etc, but sadly she is 3 hour drive away

Also what are they doing letting her bomb around like that if they are about to feed her :/


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Nataliee said:


> Looks to me like she just entertains herself, she shot straight past that person in the video grabbed a toy and ran like it was routine.
> They don't appear to be able to brush her, can't get her to sit for a photo. This makes me concerned as to what their 'rehab' actually consists of.
> If I'd lived closer I would have asked if I could take her out for 'day trips' etc, but sadly she is 3 hour drive away


I noticed that too! In the video, she doesn't even look or slightly engage with anyone there and there's obviously two people present.
It very much looks to me as though they open that gate and let her run riot, further ignoring her need to engage and focus. I mean, that'd be first on my agenda with a dog like her, yet seems to be bypassed by them.
She's over-aroused from the moment the video starts right until the very end and probably beyond. That's not rehab to me.
Their reasoning seems to be that they let her blow off steam before breakfast but a dog like Paisley, in 'rehab' does not need to work herself in to a mess before she gets breakfast. That's not blowing off steam at all!

I honestly do not think they have a clue what Paisley needs. I think they think they do, but from what I've seen, they're not helping at all. I mean, she's been in 'rehab' for six months! Something isn't working!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Someone had commented on the FB link asking what happened to the training she was receiving from a behaviourist. So obviously something amiss there too.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Well, looking at the 'about us' section it would appear that it is a rescue run by a married couple with their three young children. 

Also, mooching on the 'rehomed' pages most of the dogs seem to be the 'typical' pet bred, shall we say, GSD. 

So I do wonder if this is the first working line bred dog they've had into their rescue so they don't actually know how to challenge her energy and drive? Maybe too proud to admit defeat?

Just musing to myself on this Sunday evening.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

This sounds very much like the issues SO's aunt and her husband are having with their working lines GSD. They should NEVER have got her (both work full time, very long hours and demanding jobs - one is a headteacher), they previously had 2 very overweight labradors, one of them sadly passed away and a year later they got a WL GSD puppy - the dream dog. She's probably around a year old now, and last time I saw them they were really struggling, she jumped up wanting constant attention, couldn't settle, cried or barked all the time, and she probably isn't getting enough exercise. I think they are persevering with her, I know her parents are now helping with exercising her during the day so she may have settled down, but definitely wasn't the dog for them at all, though they are completely in love with her, it isn't always enough


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

I like the latest comment on the FB page saying “there’s nothing wrong with her anyway.” 
I suspect that may be the case. She’s just a typical WL dog with little socialization. Nothing “wrong” to fix, just training needed.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

It's a shame hers is the most negative uninformed 'ad' out of most of the dogs on there. The others seem to have a back story, a progress story & essential info on (age, good with .. Etc) all she gets is 'are you mad enough' 'she's one that no one wants'  
Bless her. 
I hope someone with experience of WL gsd's picks her up soon, I'll keep my fingers crossed for her.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I like the latest comment on the FB page saying "there's nothing wrong with her anyway."
> I suspect that may be the case. She's just a typical WL dog with little socialization. Nothing "wrong" to fix, just training needed.


Exactly!


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I like the latest comment on the FB page saying "there's nothing wrong with her anyway."
> I suspect that may be the case. She's just a typical WL dog with little socialization. Nothing "wrong" to fix, just training needed.


I believe that's the breeder of the sire, or his other half is anyway. True though, I doubt there is anything wrong with the dog at all, just possibly a rescue that is out dogged....


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

After reading the Facebook comments (love seeing the PF massive out in force  ).

I am of the firm belief that this is a rescue which is over dogged and doesn't want to accept it. They've bitten off more than they can chew and haven't got the plums to turn around and say 'she's too much for us'. 

I'm with you guys, this girl needs to be returned to her breeder.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Stud dog owner should have a say in this too. Obviously, I'm not aware of his own situation and circumstances but I know he's a renowned trainer in IPO and the likes, so could equally be a good life line for Paisley.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Okay, the rescue is really bugging me now! They said in response to someone's comment that all the info on her website profile is up to date -yet it states that she's in foster with another GSD and she's clearly not! 
They said they'd consider any home but in the next post state she needs an experienced home. 
The breeder has offered to take her back, the breeder of the sire is asking for her to go back to the breeder and yet, nothing. 

Full of contradictions that get my back up!


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> Stud dog owner should have a say in this too. Obviously, I'm not aware of his own situation and circumstances but I know he's a renowned trainer in IPO and the likes, so could equally be a good life line for Paisley.


Reading between the lines it seems like they have asked for the dog back too, and nope....


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Reading between the lines it seems like they have asked for the dog back too, and nope....


That's the same vibe I've got 

I don't understand this rescue.

Is it arrogance? A misguided belief that their 'way' is what is best for this bitch? They don't have the balls to say she is 'too much for them'? Or are they just anti-breeders?

If they were true dog lovers they would do what is best for this girl. Also, maybe they should give her a brush and ditch the shitty advert? :Shifty


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Whilst I'm at it why the fu*k is everything in "rehab"? 

These are dogs with possible behavioural issues not people with addictions :Banghead.

I don't think this 'rescue' owners are as qualified to help retrain and rehome these dogs as they like to think....

I'm on Pet forums to try and send myself to sleep and all I've succeeded in doing is firing myself up.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Whilst I'm at it why the fu*k is everything in "rehab"?
> 
> These are dogs with possible behavioural issues not people with addictions :Banghead.
> 
> ...


Are you having insomnia at the moment?

I sure am. Maybe it's the heat.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> That's the same vibe I've got
> 
> I don't understand this rescue.
> 
> ...


I don't know...
I'm looking at their rehab page on FB and the post with the dog "Rico" is ringing all sorts of alarm bells in my head. 
*sigh*


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

KatieandOliver said:


> Are you having insomnia at the moment?
> 
> I sure am. Maybe it's the heat.


Yes I am. I'm now also pissed off to boot.



ouesi said:


> I don't know...
> I'm looking at their rehab page on FB and the post with the dog "Rico" is ringing all sorts of alarm bells in my head.
> *sigh*


Glad I'm not the only one to be worried about that one, what on earth kind of home are they looking for for him?!

There is also a male further down named Duke who snaps at people "if he doesn't want to do something".

They're looking for a long term foster for him.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Why on earth is Rico the poster boy when he's bitten twice, still tries to bite and not ready to leave?


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

No reputable rescue will take on a dog with a history of multiple bite incidents.... Too much of a liability.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm baffled. Well and truly. And not even in a 'huh' way but in a 'what in god's name is going through these people's minds?!' way :Facepalm

The worst part is that no matter what happened between the bitch's previous owner, the breeder, the stud owner and the rescue the only one paying the price is that poor girl. 

Appalling.


----------



## Anneboxermad (Dec 27, 2015)

Jumping in here. You call the breeder but was happy to take the pup from them. Then slate how the other dogs were kepted. Then why take the pup


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

XemzX said:


> Followed this story a bit though dont know the full ins and outs but must say she looks a gorgeous dog. I'm really surprised there seemingly has not been a lot of interest in her - young, beautiful, well bred. I do hope she gets a home - she deserves a happy ever after


I don't think their description of her is fair to her and would put many people off even considering her. I really hope the rescue reconsider and release her back to the breeder, who will be best placed to find the type of home this dog needs.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Moobli said:


> I don't think their description of her is fair to her and would put many people off even considering her. I really hope the rescue reconsider and release her back to the breeder, who will be best placed to find the type of home this dog needs.


This. I tried not to comment about how awful an advert it is but couldn't help myself in the end!

Anyone else playing guess the pf fb? Lol the only one I've managed to guess is meezey I think.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

KatieandOliver said:


> This sounds very much like the issues SO's aunt and her husband are having with their working lines GSD. They should NEVER have got her (both work full time, very long hours and demanding jobs - one is a headteacher), they previously had 2 very overweight labradors, one of them sadly passed away and a year later they got a WL GSD puppy - the dream dog. She's probably around a year old now, and last time I saw them they were really struggling, she jumped up wanting constant attention, couldn't settle, cried or barked all the time, and she probably isn't getting enough exercise. I think they are persevering with her, I know her parents are now helping with exercising her during the day so she may have settled down, but definitely wasn't the dog for them at all, though they are completely in love with her, it isn't always enough


Poor dog. I have always had GSDs from various lines, but never felt I had enough experience or time for a working line until I gave up working and moved to the farm. My WL dog would not do well in a home where he was left alone for long hours, he thrives on being with me almost all of the time and on the amount of mental stimulation and exercise he gets.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Nataliee said:


> Looks to me like she just entertains herself, she shot straight past that person in the video grabbed a toy and ran like it was routine.
> They don't appear to be able to brush her, can't get her to sit for a photo. This makes me concerned as to what their 'rehab' actually consists of.
> If I'd lived closer I would have asked if I could take her out for 'day trips' etc, but sadly she is 3 hour drive away
> 
> Also what are they doing letting her bomb around like that if they are about to feed her :/


That is what struck me. The fact there was no interaction with any of the people there are all.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

As they won't give her back to the breeder, I wonder would they hand her over to a breed specific rescue who actually have experience with WL GSD's? This poor girl doesn't stand a chance and will be going nowhere without the proper training and stimulation she requires.. Unless of course someone thinks they're "mad enough to give it a go" like the ad suggests unch and she'll be back at this rescue again in a few months. Wash, rinse, repeat!



Rach&Miko said:


> This. I tried not to comment about how awful an advert it is but couldn't help myself in the end!
> 
> Anyone else playing guess the pf fb? Lol the only one I've managed to guess is meezey I think.


Lol yep I'm playing that game too


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Pappychi said:


> That's the same vibe I've got
> 
> I don't understand this rescue.
> 
> ...


The impression I got from the breeder when he first spoke to them about having Paisley back is that they (the rescue) consider breeders the problem in the first place ...


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

And this is why I would never risk putting a dog into rescue. Plus the hundreds of elderly pet dogs that live out their final years pining in kennels.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I don't know...
> I'm looking at their rehab page on FB and the post with the dog "Rico" is ringing all sorts of alarm bells in my head.
> *sigh*


I have just read Rico's write-up and .... oh dear!!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Been reading through the other listings and there is just no future for any of dogs is there... I'm sure they started out with the best of intentions but now it smacks of misplaced martyrdom and incompetence..

Oh I've worked out moobli now lol stunning views you have!


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I saw this post on a cani-sport page, so I'm hoping someone on there will adopt her.

Edit; someone who works with police dogs has expressed an interest in her. She has asked for more information. So here's hoping the rescue aren't that close minded.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Hopefully she'll find somewhere quick and good if the above that SLB has just posted goes something further!


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Rach&Miko said:


> Been reading through the other listings and there is just no future for any of dogs is there... I'm sure they started out with the best of intentions but now it smacks of misplaced martyrdom and incompetence..
> 
> Oh I've worked out moobli now lol stunning views you have!


Thanks


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

SLB said:


> I saw this post on a cani-sport page, so I'm hoping someone on there will adopt her.
> 
> Edit; someone who works with police dogs has expressed an interest in her. She has asked for more information. So here's hoping the rescue aren't that close minded.


One police force (not sure which one) have already assessed her and they found her to be too nervous once out of her familiar environment, however they did recommend to the rescue she be returned to the breeder for further socialisation and training and that they would then be happy to assess her again. So the rescue can't be against a working home, but it will be dependant on whether Paisley has the required nerve and ball drive. I believe siblings are with other police forces, but perhaps her bad start in life is limiting her chances.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Aha! I've pretty much sussed all the PF-ers out now  I don't have Facebook so, unfortunately, there will be no friend adding but lovely to see you all out in force 



Moobli said:


> The impression I got from the breeder when he first spoke to them about having Paisley back is that they (the rescue) consider breeders the problem in the first place ...


Oh you're joking?

This entire "rescue" is a sham. I have to agree with @Rach&Miko they have a definite sense of misplaced martyrdom and there is an overwhelming sense of incompetence.

That poor Rico, what on earth are they doing with him - "hey he's bit twice and attempted to bite us as well. Let's stick him in rehab"

They're no where near as experienced as they like to think. An overwhelming sense of importance me thinks.

I note they've gone oh so quiet on their Facebook page  I don't have Facebook but I'm considering writing a sternly written something!


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Moobli said:


> One police force (not sure which one) have already assessed her and they found her to be too nervous once out of her familiar environment, however they did recommend to the rescue she be returned to the breeder for further socialisation and training and that they would then be happy to assess her again. So the rescue can't be against a working home, but it will be dependant on whether Paisley has the required nerve and ball drive. I believe siblings are with other police forces, but perhaps her bad start in life is limiting her chances.


Her profile only says she only works there. Being on a cani-sport page I assume she's looking for one to do those with.

Either way; it's still a good chance. She doesn't appear to be in the best place at the moment anyway


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

SLB said:


> Her profile only says she only works there. Being on a cani-sport page I assume she's looking for one to do those with.
> 
> Either way; it's still a good chance. She doesn't appear to be in the best place at the moment anyway


Ah I see. Fingers crossed then.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Moobli said:


> One police force (not sure which one) have already assessed her and they found her to be too nervous once out of her familiar environment, however they did recommend to the rescue she be returned to the breeder for further socialisation and training and that they would then be happy to assess her again. So the rescue can't be against a working home, but it will be dependant on whether Paisley has the required nerve and ball drive. I believe siblings are with other police forces, but perhaps her bad start in life is limiting her chances.


I think one of the siblings is a trained security dog, and Margarets is in IPO


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

The latest from the EGSR page

"We welcome all comments and like if poss to inject some humour in the post.we would consider any home working or not. Returning to the the breeder is not an option in this case and it has been considered.Thanks ever one for comments etc we look forward to finding this girl a home"


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Moobli said:


> The latest from the EGSR page
> 
> "We welcome all comments and like if poss to inject some humour in the post.we would consider any home working or not. Returning to the the breeder is not an option in this case and it has been considered.Thanks ever one for comments etc we look forward to finding this girl a home"


That's some pretty fancy footwork.

From the limited amount I've read the breeder AND the stud owner is an option.

Lord this is infuriating unch.

This girl _needs _a home where she will be worked in some form or another. This rescue stinks.

I think I need another cup of coffee enguin.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Moobli said:


> The latest from the EGSR page
> 
> "We welcome all comments and like if poss to inject some humour in the post.we would consider any home working or not. Returning to the the breeder is not an option in this case and it has been considered.Thanks ever one for comments etc we look forward to finding this girl a home"


Yeah I've just seen on their page. Tip-toeing around questions.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Moobli said:


> The latest from the EGSR page
> 
> "We welcome all comments and like if poss to inject some humour in the post.we would consider any home working or not. Returning to the the breeder is not an option in this case and it has been considered.Thanks ever one for comments etc we look forward to finding this girl a home"


I just saw that and figure the humour bit was aimed at me

It wasn't humorous and even if it was there is very little about poor Paisley s life you can laugh at

In fact I think the most humorous thing is that they think they are a good rescue.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

How hard is the breeder trying to get her back?


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> How hard is the breeder trying to get her back?


I'm not sure what they can do if the rescue is flat out saying no.

The travesty is if she had been returned to the breeder, either by the original owner of by the rescue when she was 7 months, she would likely be thriving in a new home and no one would be having this conversation!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Don't have Facebook but have asked my uncle who is a retired police dog handler (he is! Honest!) if he knows of a home which will suit her. 

I just hope a home comes along soon


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

The more I read the rescue's replies, the more annoyed I get about the severe lack of info they give on her.

It's almost like they like having her there. As though they get a kick from having a well bred dog from a good breeder, in rehab. 
Almost like she's ammunition for those people who say well bred dogs do not end up in rescue. 

I do wonder. Clearly they're not doing what's right by Paisley.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> It's almost like they like having her there. .


You know I did think that and shook it off as me being silly.

Does anyone remember Piper in the USA? The Sheltie bitch that there was a court case over if I remember correctly.

Sounds like this place runs in a similar vein.

I'm just struggling with the term 'rehab'. I mean really? _REALLY_?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Shame there isn't a behaviourist nearby who could offer to assess her properly and do some work with her. I do think if I were the breeder I would have tried issuing solicitors letters/small claims proceedings against the owner and the rescue, might not have any legal standing but perhaps the thought of legal bills or having their names dragged through the mud might have made both reconsider. I do think the breeder sold this dog to a totally unsuitable home and should therefore do everything in his power to get her back. Do neither the breeder nor the stud dog owner have any contacts in the working world they could get to come forward as a potential home


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Shame there isn't a behaviourist nearby who could offer to assess her properly and do some work with her. I do think if I were the breeder I would have tried issuing solicitors letters/small claims proceedings against the owner and the rescue, might not have any legal standing but perhaps the thought of legal bills or having their names dragged through the mud might have made both reconsider. *I do think the breeder sold this dog to a totally unsuitable home and should therefore do everything in his power to get her back.* Do neither the breeder nor the stud dog owner have any contacts in the working world they could get to come forward as a potential home


To be fair, there are two sides to this story here. We have no idea what what BigMomma told the breeder, as let's face it, it isn't hard to stretch the truth.....probably considerably in this case, as I cannot imagine the breeder placing the puppy had he known the full history, including the Husky that was rehomed.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

labradrk said:


> To be fair, there are two sides to this story here. We have no idea what what BigMomma told the breeder, as let's face it, it isn't hard to stretch the truth.....probably considerably in this case, as I cannot imagine the breeder placing the puppy had he known the full history, including the Husky that was rehomed.


Very true but as someone said earlier there's the breeders side, big mommas, the rescues side and the truth.

All have played their part in this situation becoming what it is.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> To be fair, there are two sides to this story here. We have no idea what what BigMomma told the breeder, as let's face it, it isn't hard to stretch the truth.....probably considerably in this case, as I cannot imagine the breeder placing the puppy had he known the full history, including the Husky that was rehomed.


These days with the internet though its easy to do a bit of digging, basic checks on the address for instance can be done via google, had he seen the property was a flat with a communal garden I'm sure he would have come to the conclusion that it just wasn't suitable for this dog, add to that an experienced owner with two very young children and surely alarm bells should be ringing. I know people can lie and say they haven't got kids when they have etc but surely if you are selling a pup that needs an experienced/knowledgeable home where it will get properly socialised and trained and possibly worked then you need to dig a bit below the surface. It wasn't that hard for us on here to deduce that BM was not only unsuitable for this dog but for many of the other breeds of dog she was considering (I seem to remember pointers were also on the list) as lets just say it was fairly obvious the knowledge and experience weren't there.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Just caught up on this thread how dreadful poor girl is still in kennels in a rescue that's no life at all how is she going to get a home if there is no basic training or long walks or interaction with humans I feel so sorry for her


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The rescue is going all on the defense now and I do think their attitude stinks a tad.

I just cannot understand how a puppy at 7 months old, surrendered to their rescue, still at a good impressionable age, is still in rescue a year later? Surely they could have fostered her out to a suitable home?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Sounds like this rescue is getting their knickers in a twist now 

Bit of a snide response to Lauren.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I think it's only a matter of time before I'm blocked lol!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> I think it's only a matter of time before I'm blocked lol!


You little rebel you .

I am almost tempted to restart Facebook to throw in my two cents but I deleted it for a reason.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> You little rebel you .
> 
> I am almost tempted to restart Facebook to throw in my two cents but I deleted it for a reason.


They've put up an essay of a post about Paisley and how horrible we all are lol! Absolute idiots!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> These days with the internet though its easy to do a bit of digging, basic checks on the address for instance can be done via google, had he seen the property was a flat with a communal garden I'm sure he would have come to the conclusion that it just wasn't suitable for this dog, add to that an experienced owner with two very young children and surely alarm bells should be ringing. I know people can lie and say they haven't got kids when they have etc but surely if you are selling a pup that needs an experienced/knowledgeable home where it will get properly socialised and trained and possibly worked then you need to dig a bit below the surface. It wasn't that hard for us on here to deduce that BM was not only unsuitable for this dog but for many of the other breeds of dog she was considering (I seem to remember pointers were also on the list) as lets just say it was fairly obvious the knowledge and experience weren't there.


But remember, BM had grand ideas of what she planned to do with the puppy and I'm sure she was very convincing, small children or not. So the breeder probably thought she was able to provide what was needed at that exact time.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...:tl_objid.1537515193222497&refid=17&__tn__=,;


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I


Dogloverlou said:


> But remember, BM had grand ideas of what she planned to do with the puppy and I'm sure she was very convincing, small children or not. So the breeder probably thought she was able to provide what was needed at that exact time.


I didn't find her remotely convincing and I'm not an experienced breeder of WL GSDs.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

BigMomma told the breeder she was going to do agility with Paisley. According to the breeder Paisley was the quietest one in the litter.

Could they have vetted the home better? Probably. However, that the breeder has put efforts in to getting the dog back from rescue including offering the rescue money for the dog shows responsibility towards the dog.

A litigation with the rescue might not be feasible for many reasons, and yes, it does remind me a lot of the Piper situation 

I think it’s clear at this point from the pictures, the video, the length of time in rescue, that this rescue is NOT doing right by the dog. Nor other dogs for that matter


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I
> 
> I didn't find her remotely convincing and I'm not an experienced breeder of WL GSDs.


I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the breeder did too. After all we all have to start somewhere. Obviously that wasn't the case though


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I
> 
> I didn't find her remotely convincing and I'm not an experienced breeder of WL GSDs.


I think that's a whole different debate really, after all someone who on paper looks like a good potential fit for a certain type of dog can actually be a dreadful one. Conversely someone on who paper may not necessarily appear to be suited to a particular type of dog, can actually be an excellent fit. Nothing is formulaic, and while everything in this case is pure speculation some people are very convincing at exaggerating the truth.


----------



## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

It's a difficult one really to say who is and isn't suitable. When I first got Blade I'd probably say I wasn't a suitable husky owner. I was 18 stone, wouldn't walk anywhere would even take my car to the shop which was about 600yards away however I adapted and put the effort in and I'd like to think I'm a good owner.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> They've put up an essay of a post about Paisley and how horrible we all are lol! Absolute idiots!


I just choked.

OMG are they serious?!


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> I just choked.
> 
> OMG are they serious?!


Sadly, I think so!


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

At the end of the day, both breeders & rescues can make errors of judgment when placing dogs, they are not infallible, & I think BigMomma could be quite the silver tongued little liar when she wants something.

I homecheck, & am aware that there are a lot of people out there who will go to great lengths to get hold of a dog, I don't undestand why, it's absolutely perverse, but it does happen.

They are the reason why there are rescue blacklists, maybe breeders need something similar.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> Sadly, I think so!


'These people have probably never owned dogs'.

Well, Mr Rescue owner. I know and accept the credentials of those posting. Pray tell what are yours? :Rage


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> 'These people have probably never owned dogs'.
> 
> Well, Mr Rescue owner. I know and accept the credentials of those posting. Pray tell what are yours? :Rage


That's what I wanted to say.

...And running a rescue does not automatically make you an expert nor a saint!


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Here is the post for those who can't see it:

"I love how FaceBook makes everyone an expert!

As founder of this Rescue I feel I must put a few of you straight about PAISLEY!!!!
Paisley is a dog from working lines, but thus far has been rejected by the police.
Some of you are commenting that kennels is not the place for her, where is the behaviourist, too much money spent on admin?????? YOU KNOW NOTHING!!!!

There is not one single penny spent on admin in this Rescue, every penny is spent on the dogs.
Paisley is not 'in kennels', she is in Rehab, undergoing training to hopefully get her up to a standard required by the police or many other working environments.

You question why she has not gone back to her breeder, and how previous owner reneged on their contract, but what none of you seem to know is that Paisley was sold, by her breeder, into a family home, living in a flat!!! That is not conducive of the type of home you are all shouting that she needs, and under those circumstances, would you trust a breeder (who, of course,doesn't breed dogs to make money???????) to do right by her a 2nd time, or just sell her on AGAIN???

EGSR specialise in taking the more difficult, challenging dogs in, and we assess each dog very carefully to determine its needs and a rehabilitation program is set up, tailored for that dog.
We do work with the breeders and again, we assess what we feel will give the dog the best long term outcome.
Rehab does not come free, currently costing the Rescue in excess of £1000 per month, so trust me, if we thought there was a better option for Paisley we would have pursued it!

Criticising the wording on the post too, is just pathetic, this has always been a friendly, light hearted page, and if you want to pick up and try to start an argument on a 'tongue in cheek' comment, you are obviously more of a troll than a devoted rescuer!

I am all for discussion, and accept difference of opinion, but if more supposed 'facts' are posted on here, to which there is no foundation, we will delete them.

The idea of the rehab page is to highlight what we do for each dog, and to try and get some interest to rehome, or sponsor them. It has always been an open and friendly page, we hide nothing from anyone and thus are quite upset at many of the comments made by the ill informed to make us look bad.

Damon"

A lot of inconsistencies in this post alone. And the defensiveness is not only not professional, but is clearly a deflection of the questions already asked. 
Is she good with kids?
Is she good with other dogs?
What kind of training has she received?
What progress has she made?
Etc., etc...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the breeder did too. After all we all have to start somewhere. Obviously that wasn't the case though


Yes we do all have to start somewhere but not with a WL GSD whilst living in a flat with communal gardens (and lets not forget elderly neighbours who were not on board) and two small kids. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule and its possible that a person fitting the above description might make it work by say getting up very early and walking/training the dog before the kids are up, attending regular classes and then walking said dog again after kids are in bed but those people will be few and far between and I think breeders have a responsibility to dig beneath the surface a bit to make sure a dog like Paisley doesn't end up in the wrong hands with the risk of a) the dog ending up in rescue or b) the dog ending up with behavioural problems and c) those behavioural problems leading to some sort of incident that results in the dog being PTS. If I were breeding and selling WL GSD's I would want a homecheck for a start and a couple of references from people who can confirm the owner has previously done things that show a level of commitment. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean IPO but perhaps a simple enquiry of the vet would have shown previous animals no longer in the owners care which should ring alarm bells. When we first contacted our previous rottie's breeder back in the mid 90's she asked us basic questions on the phone and said she would come back to us to arrange for us to go and view the pups. A couple of days later I was hearing from all sorts of people that she had been asking questions about us which I was quite happy about.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Its annoying me as to why they won't even explain WHY Paisley is still in rehab? And as others have asked.. Is she good with children/dogs/cats.. what training has she had etc etc.. nothing is getting answered !


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

When was the last time the dog saw a brush? Would be another question 
I’m not impressed....


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> That's what I wanted to say.
> 
> ...And running a rescue does not automatically make you an expert nor a saint!


I would do if I had Facebook. Sadly with an ex who once tried to choke me I was told by the police it was a no go.

I'm seething here. I hate this 'holier than though' aura they have going on.

If they were that good why the f*ck are these dogs in rehab so long? Why are they trying to rehome a dog with a KNOWN bite history? How in god's name is a bitch who was 7 months old when she went in in need of 'rehab'?

F***ing arsemarmites (DogSnob approved insult just for you Ouesi).


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes we do all have to start somewhere but not with a WL GSD whilst living in a flat with communal gardens (and lets not forget elderly neighbours who were not on board) and two small kids. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule and its possible that a person fitting the above description might make it work by say getting up very early and walking/training the dog before the kids are up, attending regular classes and then walking said dog again after kids are in bed but those people will be few and far between and I think breeders have a responsibility to dig beneath the surface a bit to make sure a dog like Paisley doesn't end up in the wrong hands with the risk of a) the dog ending up in rescue or b) the dog ending up with behavioural problems and c) those behavioural problems leading to some sort of incident that results in the dog being PTS. If I were breeding and selling WL GSD's I would want a homecheck for a start and a couple of references from people who can confirm the owner has previously done things that show a level of commitment. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean IPO but perhaps a simple enquiry of the vet would have shown previous animals no longer in the owners care which should ring alarm bells. When we first contacted our previous rottie's breeder back in the mid 90's she asked us basic questions on the phone and said she would come back to us to arrange for us to go and view the pups. A couple of days later I was hearing from all sorts of people that she had been asking questions about us which I was quite happy about.


So assuming the breeder did none of this, did not properly vet the home and just took the buyer's word that what she was saying was true, it still doesn't excuse the buyer not sticking to the contract to return the dog to him (she didn't even tell the breeder she was turning the dog in to rescue). 
It still doesn't excuse the rescue refusing to return the dog to the breeder - even after the breeder offered to buy her back, not just take her back. 
The stud dog owner as well offered to take the dog and they turned her down too, and she is married to a well known IPO trainer and most definitely would have been able to not only work the dog properly, but has the contacts to get the dog in the right home.

The rescue is very clearly NOT acting in the best interest of Paisley


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

This whole situation is massively frustrating, and the rescue are being pretty unprofessional about it.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ouesi said:


> When was the last time the dog saw a brush? Would be another question
> I'm not impressed....


I did put a snide comment in that if they can only get 20-30 minutes of attention out of her and can't even brush her -something isn't working 

Absolutely shocking and now they're playing the victim.

I'd personally like to hear of their credentials when it comes to B-mod and rehabilitating dogs. She doesn't need rehabilitation! She needs someone with the time to help her shine!


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

I really want to know what their “rehab” consists of, especially given the few videos I’ve seen have dogs on choke chains....


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I've asked that too and guess what? I was ignored


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> I really want to know what their "rehab" consists of, especially given the few videos I've seen have dogs on choke chains....


OH. MY. GOD.

This rescue is appalling.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> So assuming the breeder did none of this, did not properly vet the home and just took the buyer's word that what she was saying was true, it still doesn't excuse the buyer not sticking to the contract to return the dog to him (she didn't even tell the breeder she was turning the dog in to rescue).
> It still doesn't excuse the rescue refusing to return the dog to the breeder - even after the breeder offered to buy her back, not just take her back.
> The stud dog owner as well offered to take the dog and they turned her down too, and she is married to a well known IPO trainer and most definitely would have been able to not only work the dog properly, but has the contacts to get the dog in the right home.
> 
> The rescue is very clearly NOT acting in the best interest of Paisley


Ouesi I am not for one minute saying the buyer is innocent in all of this, I'm not making excuses for her or for the rescue for not returning Paisley to the breeder and made that point to Bigmomma earlier in this thread. I agree the breeder or stud dog owner would have been the best and correct place for her to go a year ago and still now but I do think breeders in general and particularly breeders of dogs like Paisley need to do a bit more to make sure that the people who they sell their pups to are suitable homes and can deal with the responsibility and commitment necessary.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

They are basically saying that the breeder is not having her back as he isn't capable of finding a suitable home, yet they had her returned from a foster home so does that not make them incapable of finding another home too


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Ouesi I am not for one minute saying the buyer is innocent in all of this, I'm not making excuses for her or for the rescue for not returning Paisley to the breeder and made that point to Bigmomma earlier in this thread. I agree the breeder or stud dog owner would have been the best and correct place for her to go a year ago and still now but I do think breeders in general and particularly breeders of dogs like Paisley need to do a bit more to make sure that the people who they sell their pups to are suitable homes and can deal with the responsibility and commitment necessary.


I would guess (I hope) this ordeal will affect the breeder's decisions about who to sell to in the future.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Nataliee said:


> They are basically saying that the breeder is not having her back as he isn't capable of finding a suitable home, yet they had her returned from a foster home so does that not make them incapable of finding another home too


Exactly.
They're also saying she's not in kennels, she's in rehab. Semantics. Those are most definitely kennels she's living in, not a home.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> *Yes we do all have to start somewhere but not with a WL GSD whilst living in a flat with communal gardens (and lets not forget elderly neighbours who were not on board) and two small kids. * Of course there will be exceptions to the rule and its possible that a person fitting the above description might make it work by say getting up very early and walking/training the dog before the kids are up, attending regular classes and then walking said dog again after kids are in bed but those people will be few and far between and I think breeders have a responsibility to dig beneath the surface a bit to make sure a dog like Paisley doesn't end up in the wrong hands with the risk of a) the dog ending up in rescue or b) the dog ending up with behavioural problems and c) those behavioural problems leading to some sort of incident that results in the dog being PTS. If I were breeding and selling WL GSD's I would want a homecheck for a start and a couple of references from people who can confirm the owner has previously done things that show a level of commitment. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean IPO but perhaps a simple enquiry of the vet would have shown previous animals no longer in the owners care which should ring alarm bells. When we first contacted our previous rottie's breeder back in the mid 90's she asked us basic questions on the phone and said she would come back to us to arrange for us to go and view the pups. A couple of days later I was hearing from all sorts of people that she had been asking questions about us which I was quite happy about.


Agree, but again we have no idea what was said between them, only the word of the breeder vs the buyer. Not heard of many breeders that will home check?

I can't remember the username, but didn't the lady who had Bess (?) the Irish Setter and bred from her, sell a puppy to someone with a very long history of owning the breed, only to have them return the puppy several days later saying it was was aggressive? totally opposite end of the spectrum I know, but it goes to show you can never be totally certain with puppy buyers regardless of their level of experience. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Such a shame 

She's from good lines (from what I've been told) so should make a fab dog despite the shaky start she initially had. After 7mths of 'rehab' they surely should have been able to have ironed out the issues & found her a suitable foster home at least, if not a permanent one.

Whilst I do not wish to slag off rescues as am sure they all aim to find their dogs the best home, I wonder if some just don't have the experience or contacts in which to do this with some they take on.

I also wonder why detals of her 'rehab' have not been posted along with more information about her & how to meet her needs. She is obviously a high drive dog which does mean she can be a fantastic dog for some people but a nightmare for those who do not know how to manage dogs like her. It seems a shame that the deatils aren't made public along with a detailed profile to ensure that the 'right' people will enquitre after her


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Exactly.
> They're also saying she's not in kennels, she's in rehab. Semantics. Those are most definitely kennels she's living in, not a home.


Exactly what I was thinking, rehab kennels would still be kennels surely


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

labradrk said:


> To be fair, there are two sides to this story here. We have no idea what what BigMomma told the breeder, as let's face it, it isn't hard to stretch the truth.....probably considerably in this case, as I cannot imagine the breeder placing the puppy had he known the full history, including the Husky that was rehomed.


I believe she told him she was experienced with GSDs (her mum has a pet bred one) and that she wanted an active dog to do agility with.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Moobli said:


> I believe she told him she was experienced with GSDs (her mum has a pet bred one) and that she wanted an active dog to do agility with.


Have they said why they refused to return her to the breeder @Moobli? I did email & ask but they basically told me to mind my own business


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Let's not forget that Bigmommas dad was also an ex police dog handler and was going to help her with training etc....


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes we do all have to start somewhere but not with a WL GSD whilst living in a flat with communal gardens (and lets not forget elderly neighbours who were not on board) and two small kids. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule and its possible that a person fitting the above description might make it work by say getting up very early and walking/training the dog before the kids are up, attending regular classes and then walking said dog again after kids are in bed but those people will be few and far between and I think breeders have a responsibility to dig beneath the surface a bit to make sure a dog like Paisley doesn't end up in the wrong hands with the risk of a) the dog ending up in rescue or b) the dog ending up with behavioural problems and c) those behavioural problems leading to some sort of incident that results in the dog being PTS. If I were breeding and selling WL GSD's I would want a homecheck for a start and a couple of references from people who can confirm the owner has previously done things that show a level of commitment. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean IPO but perhaps a simple enquiry of the vet would have shown previous animals no longer in the owners care which should ring alarm bells. When we first contacted our previous rottie's breeder back in the mid 90's she asked us basic questions on the phone and said she would come back to us to arrange for us to go and view the pups. A couple of days later I was hearing from all sorts of people that she had been asking questions about us which I was quite happy about.


I don't disagree with you at all. If I were to ever breed WL GSDs there would be a 30 page questionnaire for prospective owners to fill in before they even got to talk to me on the phone, never mind coming to view pups  - and I do think the breeder in this case should have been more discerning as to who he sold to. However, what's done is done. I hope he learns from this and is more diligent in interviewing potential owners in future.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Have they said why they refused to return her to the breeder @Moobli? I did email & ask but they basically told me to mind my own business


According to the rescue's FB post:
"You question why she has not gone back to her breeder, and how previous owner reneged on their contract, but what none of you seem to know is that Paisley was sold, by her breeder, into a family home, living in a flat!!! That is not conducive of the type of home you are all shouting that she needs, and under those circumstances, would you trust a breeder (who, of course,doesn't breed dogs to make money???????) to do right by her a 2nd time, or just sell her on AGAIN???"


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Have they said why they refused to return her to the breeder @Moobli? I did email & ask but they basically told me to mind my own business


They haven't replied to me directly but have now posted that a breeder who sold to such an unsuitable home in the first place is not capable or trustworthy of finding her a suitable home now. They also mention that the breeder sells dogs for money, in terms that make it sound unpalatable to them.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Nataliee said:


> Let's not forget that Bigmommas dad was also an ex police dog handler and was going to help her with training etc....


Oh yes! I had actually forgotten that wee gem!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I am also one who doesn't wanna slag off the rescues who do so much to help dogs.

However, for the life of me I cannot understand this them vs us mentality between some rescues and responsible breeders.

This is why the dog world is in such a sorry state. We are all in the dog world because we love dogs. We should all be pulling together to ensure the dogs, owners, breeders and rescues all have a better future.

I cannot stand the overwhelming sense of arrogance this rescue is spewing. They have no idea what is best for this bitch. None whatsoever. They need to pull their fingers out of their backsides and accept that maybe, just maybe, there are people out there who know more than they do.

Poor show off them.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Moobli said:


> They haven't replied to me directly but have now posted that a breeder who sold to such an unsuitable home in the first place is not capable or trustworthy of finding her a suitable home now. They also mention that the breeder sells dogs for money, in terms that make it sound unpalatable to them.


Yeah, I saw that. 
Of course the breeder sells dogs for money! What should breeders sell dogs for? Kisses and rainbow unicorn farts? Do they not take money when they adopt a dog out?
*sigh*


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Moobli said:


> Oh yes! I had actually forgotten that wee gem!


That's why I am hesitate to say my uncle actually is a retired police dog handler. It's such a commonly told lie that some people must think yeah yeah pull the other one 

He's asking round his contacts as we speak.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> However, for the life of me I cannot understand this them vs us mentality between rescues and responsible breeders.


Not always the case fortunately.
I know many breeders who work side by side with breed rescues, doing as much work on the rescue side of things as on the breeding side of things. For them it's about the breed period. Whether it's one of "their" dogs or not. 
We have always had lots of breeder support when taking on our rescue danes (and even dogs who aren't danes).


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Yeah, I saw that.
> Of course the breeder sells dogs for money! What should breeders sell dogs for? Kisses and rainbow unicorn farts? Do they not take money when they adopt a dog out?
> *sigh*


Kisses and rainbow unicorn farts :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Not always the case fortunately.
> I know many breeders who work side by side with breed rescues, doing as much work on the rescue side of things as on the breeding side of things. For them it's about the breed period. Whether it's one of "their" dogs or not.
> We have always had lots of breeder support when taking on our rescue danes (and even dogs who aren't danes).


I should of really put some rescues . You'll have to excuse me, I'm business website updating and trying to keep up with this saga at the same time 

ETA - There we go. All fixed :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Moobli said:


> They haven't replied to me directly but have now posted that a breeder who sold to such an unsuitable home in the first place is not capable or trustworthy of finding her a suitable home now. They also mention that the breeder sells dogs for money, in terms that make it sound unpalatable to them.


Just read up on the FB page. Am sure there are many breeders who have ended up selling pups to unsuitable homes based on what they have been told ... same with rescues rehoming to them, but this doesn't mean that he is incapable of finding her a suitable home now. The fact that he tried so hard to get her back at all shows good form & responsibility but it seems they are a bit 'anti breeder'.

I just hope that they do get some help regarding her furture training as WL GSD's really are so different from the show lines & it seems they are a bit out of their depth.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> Agree, but again we have no idea what was said between them, only the word of the breeder vs the buyer. Not heard of many breeders that will home check?
> 
> I can't remember the username, but didn't the lady who had Bess (?) the Irish Setter and bred from her, sell a puppy to someone with a very long history of owning the breed, only to have them return the puppy several days later saying it was was aggressive? totally opposite end of the spectrum I know, but it goes to show you can never be totally certain with puppy buyers regardless of their level of experience. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!


So perhaps its time breeders did do home checks, we hear masses of information being offered to prospective puppy buyers about checking out the breeder and the health checks etc but how about a similar set of advice being offered to breeders on how to check the prospective buyer is worthy of taking on their pups. Whilst I agree you can never be certain and we all know about the puppy blues at least in that situation you are more likely to get the puppy bounced back to you before any harm is done whereas when its the completely wrong situation and wrong owner it can take months for the penny to drop and meanwhile harm is being done to your puppy.



Pappychi said:


> I am also one who doesn't wanna slag off the rescues who do so much to help dogs.
> 
> *However, for the life of me I cannot understand this them vs us mentality between some rescues and responsible breeders.*
> 
> ...


Just playing devils advocate here but perhaps this rescue has reason to suspect that this breeder is not responsible, whether that is through information received from BigMomma or perhaps they have come across him before - we have no way of knowing but they might have reasonable grounds to doubt him.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Just playing devils advocate here but perhaps this rescue has reason to suspect that this breeder is not responsible, whether that is through information received from BigMomma or perhaps they have come across him before - we have no way of knowing but they might have reasonable grounds to doubt him.


Maybe but seeing as @Moobli dog is a half brother to this bitch on the sires side I would be inclined to believe that the sire's owner is responsible. The owner of the sire as himself offered to help with the rehoming of this bitch.

I truly feel they're over dogged and are not willing to accept it. Like I said looking at their rehoming page a lot of the dogs are the typical pet bred GSD, this is a whole different kettle of fish. Even if they didn't want to contact a breeder, could they not contact a WL GSD specific rescue?

It's clear that this rescue isn't the best place for her.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes we do all have to start somewhere but not with a WL GSD whilst living in a flat with communal gardens (and lets not forget elderly neighbours who were not on board) and two small kids. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule and its possible that a person fitting the above description might make it work by say getting up very early and walking/training the dog before the kids are up, attending regular classes and then walking said dog again after kids are in bed but those people will be few and far between and I think breeders have a responsibility to dig beneath the surface a bit to make sure a dog like Paisley doesn't end up in the wrong hands with the risk of a) the dog ending up in rescue or b) the dog ending up with behavioural problems and c) those behavioural problems leading to some sort of incident that results in the dog being PTS. If I were breeding and selling WL GSD's I would want a homecheck for a start and a couple of references from people who can confirm the owner has previously done things that show a level of commitment. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean IPO but perhaps a simple enquiry of the vet would have shown previous animals no longer in the owners care which should ring alarm bells. When we first contacted our previous rottie's breeder back in the mid 90's she asked us basic questions on the phone and said she would come back to us to arrange for us to go and view the pups. A couple of days later I was hearing from all sorts of people that she had been asking questions about us which I was quite happy about.


Yes, I'm one of those who has made it work  Cash's breeder sold him to me also living in a flat with a communal garden ( although I've since moved ), and he came from a house with 2 acres of garden! It's really not about the home environment as if BM had been committed she could have made it work regardless. But I do see your point.



Nataliee said:


> They are basically saying that the breeder is not having her back as he isn't capable of finding a suitable home, yet they had her returned from a foster home so does that not make them incapable of finding another home too


Yes I get the feeling the rescue are very anti-breeder and just believe they're all money hungry lowlifes who don't care long term for the dog's they produce  It appears to me that they never had any intentions of returning Paisley to the breeder and I feel whatever is being said about that possibility now is falling on deaf ears.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

If I thought I stood a chance at getting her I'd go on a little road trip next week when I'm off but I suspect I would get there and be refused as I doubt they will want her going to anyone that has anything to do with the breeder


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Just playing devils advocate here but perhaps this rescue has reason to suspect that this breeder is not responsible, whether that is through information received from BigMomma or perhaps they have come across him before - we have no way of knowing but they might have reasonable grounds to doubt him.


This is what I initially thought, but further posts seem to suggest they're just anti-breeders full stop.


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

I have spoken to the rescue. I have offered to foster her on a temporary basis with the view to adopting her if it works with my own dogs. I've just filled in the fostering/adoption form and now need to wait for them to contact me with regards to a home check.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> Maybe but seeing as @Moobli dog is a half brother to this bitch on the sires side I would be inclined to believe that the sire's owner is responsible. The owner of the sire as himself offered to help with the rehoming of this bitch.
> 
> I truly feel they're over dogged and are not willing to accept it. Like I said looking at their rehoming page a lot of the dogs are the typical pet bred GSD, this is a whole different kettle of fish. Even if they didn't want to contact a breeder, could they not contact a WL GSD specific rescue?
> 
> It's clear that this rescue isn't the best place for her.


I think its easy for us to sit here and debate who is and who isn't responsible but again playing devils advocate and putting ourselves in the rescue's situation they "may" have reason to doubt either the breeder or the stud dog owner are responsible and they "might" feel they would be letting Paisley down by trusting either to find a suitable home for her. Are there any specific WL GSD rescues? if so perhaps someone could contact them and ask them to offer to help this rescue.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nataliee said:


> If I thought I stood a chance at getting her I'd go on a little road trip next week when I'm off but I suspect I would get there and be refused as I doubt they will want her going to anyone that has anything to do with the breeder


How would they know you are anything to do with the breeder?


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Nataliee said:


> If I thought I stood a chance at getting her I'd go on a little road trip next week when I'm off but I suspect I would get there and be refused as I doubt they will want her going to anyone that has anything to do with the breeder


Unfortunately I do think after our comments the rescue will be on the defensive, and also ultra cautious about who they allow to come and meet Paisley. Might be worth a go though? If you go for it and need help with the adoption fee I am happy to chip in.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

MissPink said:


> I have spoken to the rescue. I have offered to foster her on a temporary basis with the view to adopting her if it works with my own dogs. I've just filled in the fostering/adoption form and now need to wait for them to contact me with regards to a home check.


Oh wow. Lets hope this results in a positive outcome! Keep us updated.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Moobli said:


> Unfortunately I do think after our comments the rescue will be on the defensive, and also ultra cautious about who they allow to come and meet Paisley. Might be worth a go though? If you go for it and need help with the adoption fee I am happy to chip in.


Me too.


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

I will keep you all updated


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

MissPink said:


> I have spoken to the rescue. I have offered to foster her on a temporary basis with the view to adopting her if it works with my own dogs. I've just filled in the fostering/adoption form and now need to wait for them to contact me with regards to a home check.


Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

MissPink said:


> I will keep you all updated


Please do!  Good luck!


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Moobli said:


> Unfortunately I do think after our comments the rescue will be on the defensive, and also ultra cautious about who they allow to come and meet Paisley. Might be worth a go though? If you go for it and need help with the adoption fee I am happy to chip in.


Me three!


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MissPink said:


> I have spoken to the rescue. I have offered to foster her on a temporary basis with the view to adopting her if it works with my own dogs. I've just filled in the fostering/adoption form and now need to wait for them to contact me with regards to a home check.


Good luck and let us know how you get on. I see you have a gorgeous Malinois - is he from working lines? Is he now trained as an assistance dog for your partner? In terms of energy levels, you should have an idea of what you will be taking on


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

Moobli said:


> Good luck and let us know how you get on. I see you have a gorgeous Malinois - is he from working lines? Is he now trained as an assistance dog for your partner? In terms of energy levels, you should have an idea of what you will be taking on


Yes he is from working lines, I also have a working line GSD bitch. They are both well trained. My Malinois is now trained as an assistance dog for my partner and is a big help to my partner. 
Hopefully the rescue will arrange a home check quite quickly, the sooner Paisley is out of a kennel environment and receiving 1-1 training the better.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Lets just hope they're not reading this thread too as they may well decide against you taking her on @MissPink if they feel you're in cahoots with us( the bad guys seen as criticizing them on FB )/her breeder etc. That shouldn't be the case, but who knows....


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think its easy for us to sit here and debate who is and who isn't responsible but again playing devils advocate and putting ourselves in the rescue's situation they "may" have reason to doubt either the breeder or the stud dog owner are responsible and they "might" feel they would be letting Paisley down by trusting either to find a suitable home for her. Are there any specific WL GSD rescues? if so perhaps someone could contact them and ask them to offer to help this rescue.


I know you're playing devil's advocate, but I really think you're grasping at straws.
So they doubt the breeder, fine. The stud dog owner has also offered to take Paisley and they refused. 
Both breeder and stud dog owner have tried to get the dog back, isn't that what we ask of good breeders? That they take responsibility for their dogs? They are both attempting to do exactly that.

The stud dog owner is married to a well-known IPO trainer who has exactly the sort of skills to work with a dog like Paisley, and the connections to find her the right home. Allowing Paisley to go to the stud dog owner would be the ideal compromise, refusing this is not in Paisley's best interest at all.



Dogloverlou said:


> Lets just hope they're not reading this thread too as they may well decide against you taking her on @MissPink if they feel you're in cahoots with us( the bad guys seen as criticizing them on FB )/her breeder etc. That shouldn't be the case, but who knows....


Alternately let's hope they ARE reading this thread and come to realize that it's about what is best for Paisley, not preserving human egos. 
@MissPink has not participated in any negative comments towards the rescue and has only posted on this thread to say she has offered to take the dog on. Surely if the rescue is interested in helping Paisley they will see this as a good option for her.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MissPink said:


> Yes he is from working lines, I also have a working line GSD bitch. They are both well trained. My Malinois is now trained as an assistance dog for my partner and is a big help to my partner.
> Hopefully the rescue will arrange a home check quite quickly, the sooner Paisley is out of a kennel environment and receiving 1-1 training the better.


Great stuff!! Good luck.


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

My working line GSD bitch and Malinois


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Alternately let's hope they ARE reading this thread and come to realize that it's about what is best for Paisley, not preserving human egos.
> @MissPink has not participated in any negative comments towards the rescue and has only posted on this thread to say she has offered to take the dog on. Surely if the rescue is interested in helping Paisley they will see this as a good option for her.


Lets hope so.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I know you're playing devil's advocate, but I really think you're grasping at straws.
> So they doubt the breeder, fine. The stud dog owner has also offered to take Paisley and they refused.
> Both breeder and stud dog owner have tried to get the dog back, isn't that what we ask of good breeders? That they take responsibility for their dogs? They are both attempting to do exactly that.
> 
> ...


Yes I know they have both tried to get the dog back (although as the breeder with the signed contract I would have gone to court to get my dog back) and its great that they both take responsibility for the pups they created/sold BUT as devils advocate again I've heard some of the training methods used in IPO being criticised on here in the past so perhaps they don't want her to go there for a reason. Again this is all conjecture because if they won't tell people why they don't want her to go to either the breeder or the stud owner then we won't know.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> BUT as devils advocate again I've heard some of the training methods used in IPO being criticised on here in the past so perhaps they don't want her to go there for a reason.


Making a generalization here, but IPO trainers tend to be the ones more well-versed in positive reinforcement techniques as it is very hard to get the combination of precision and enthusiasm needed in IPO otherwise. 
Considering a perusal of their "rehab" videos shows dogs in choke chains (though granted, no corrections with them) I wouldn't think they're too choosy about tools and methods. 
I also doubt they have an issue with bite sports anyway given that they were happy to let the police have a go with Paisley. 
But hey, I could be wrong though....


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I know they have both tried to get the dog back (although as the breeder with the signed contract I would have gone to court to get my dog back) and its great that they both take responsibility for the pups they created/sold BUT as devils advocate again I've heard some of the training methods used in IPO being criticised on here in the past so perhaps they don't want her to go there for a reason. Again this is all conjecture because if they won't tell people why they don't want her to go to either the breeder or the stud owner then we won't know.


It's because they think the breeder's judgement is all wrong and that he could make the same mistakes in rehoming her to someone inexperienced.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> It's because they think the breeder's judgement is all wrong and that he could make the same mistakes in rehoming her to someone inexperienced.


Yes I read that too but what I was suggesting is that "perhaps" there is something they know or think they know that they are not saying on a public site. I have no grounds for saying that, just putting out there that it is just "possible" they have their reasons other than those stated in their public post.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I know they have both tried to get the dog back (although as the breeder with the signed contract I would have gone to court to get my dog back) and its great that they both take responsibility for the pups they created/sold BUT as devils advocate again I've heard some of the training methods used in IPO being criticised on here in the past so perhaps they don't want her to go there for a reason. Again this is all conjecture because if they won't tell people why they don't want her to go to either the breeder or the stud owner then we won't know.


The breeder does not do IPO as far as I know, and both the stud dog owner and her husband train their dogs in IPO using force free methods.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I know they have both tried to get the dog back (although as the breeder with the signed contract I would have gone to court to get my dog back) and its great that they both take responsibility for the pups they created/sold BUT as devils advocate again *I've heard some of the training methods used in IPO being criticised on here in the past *so perhaps they don't want her to go there for a reason. Again this is all conjecture because if they won't tell people why they don't want her to go to either the breeder or the stud owner then we won't know.


But you could say the same for pet dog training, or police dog training or any type of dog training .....


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I have spent most of the afternoon reading this thread with so much sadness. Thank you so much @MissPink for coming along and offering to save her. I'm keeping everything crossed that they will let you foster her, as I can't wait to see what she blossoms into once she is in capable, knowledgeable hands.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MissPink said:


> My working line GSD bitch and Malinois
> 
> View attachment 273246
> View attachment 273245


Love your bitch - what lines is she?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Cleo38 said:


> But you could say the same for pet dog training, or police dog training or any type of dog training .....


Of course you could - I was just pointing out the "possibility" that the rescue have some reason for not wanting the breeder or stud dog owner to have Paisley back, such as not trusting the breeder to find the right home or having other knowledge of the breeder that we don't know about and possibly not agreeing with training methods used by the stud dog owners in relation to their IPO. I am NOT saying that is correct but just that we don't know the whole situation, only what they are prepared to say on a public site.


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

Moobli said:


> Love your bitch - what lines is she?


Her sire is Gerry Vom Weisseritztal and the dam is Amy Vom Dunklen Zwinger.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> only what they are prepared to say on a public site.


What they have already said on a public site is telling though.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I understand what you're saying RPH I really do.

However, I can't seem to get by the attitude of the owners of this rescue. I believe that if they did have some concrete on the breeder/stud owner they would be posting it everywhere, shouting it from the rooftop with bells and bows attached. Instead, they are merely bleating on about the unsuitable home the breeder rehomed her into, which I am sure we all agree on.

Unfortunately, breeders (and rescues!) are not always infallible and the irresponsible will always find a way to bypass the net somehow. I'm sure there are many a reputable breeder who has let their pup go, thinking it is going to be raised in an excellent environment has been horrified to find their pup used as a breeding machine or sold on or in rescue.

Even if this rescue didn't want to hand her back to the breeder could they not have set aside their differences and work together? The breeder using his contacts to find a suitable home with the knowledge of his lines and the rescue vetting these homes accordingly?

Maybe I'm an idealist but that would be the solution I would have been looking for. Less about human egos and more about finding the right home for a girl who has sadly spent far too long in "rehab".

Hats off to the wonderful @MissPink . Fingers crossed she'll be winging her way to you very soon.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Fingers crossed for Paisley that they take you up on your offer @MissPink


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MissPink said:


> Her sire is Gerry Vom Weisseritztal and the dam is Amy Vom Dunklen Zwinger.


Ah I now know why she looked vaguely familiar! I saw her "for sale" ad on you tube or vimeo a couple of months ago, if it is the same bitch. She came trained or part trained from Castlehill Kennels?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> I understand what you're saying RPH I really do.
> 
> However, I can't seem to get by the attitude of the owners of this rescue. I believe that if they did have some concrete on the breeder/stud owner they would be posting it everywhere, shouting it from the rooftop with bells and bows attached. Instead, they are merely bleating on about the unsuitable home the breeder rehomed her into, which I am sure we all agree on.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree it would be great if they could work together but we only have to frequent the breeding pages of this forum and look through adverts on gumtree or whatever its called to see there are so many breeders out there that rescues really wouldn't want to cooperate with in any way. I also don't quite understand what is stopping the breeder or the stud dog owner from using their contacts to find Paisley a suitable home anyway, if they have a suitable contact then why can't that contact apply for Paisley without mentioning that they happen to know the breeder or stud dog owner? And just to play devils advocate once again (I have red horns and everything you know) how do we know that the forum member here is the right home for Paisley either? There is a lot of back slapping going on but not many questions being asked but I guess that is down to the rescue to sort out.


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

Moobli said:


> Ah I now know why she looked vaguely familiar! I saw her "for sale" ad on you tube or vimeo a couple of months ago, if it is the same bitch. She came trained or part trained from Castlehill Kennels?


Yes it's the same bitch.
She came part trained, my Malinois is trained to the standard that we want him although as with every dog training is an ongoing thing so we thought it was time to add another dog but my partner wasn't keen on a puppy, originally we were going to rehome a GSD through a rescue centre however we came up against some issues with a couple of rescue centres (they were not keen rehoming a GSD with another shepherd dog with high drive with my partners disability) I was then made aware from the person selling Poppy that she was looking for a new home so decided that we would be the home for her. She and my Malinois get on okay, had no issues with her settling in and she is now part of the family. My partner and I are really hoping that Paisley will be able to join us soon.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I agree it would be great if they could work together but we only have to frequent the breeding pages of this forum and look through adverts on gumtree or whatever its called to see there are so many breeders out there that rescues really wouldn't want to cooperate with in any way. I also don't quite understand what is stopping the breeder or the stud dog owner from using their contacts to find Paisley a suitable home anyway, if they have a suitable contact then why can't that contact apply for Paisley without mentioning that they happen to know the breeder or stud dog owner? And just to play devils advocate once again (I have red horns and everything you know) how do we know that the forum member here is the right home for Paisley either? There is a lot of back slapping going on but not many questions being asked but I guess that is down to the rescue to sort out.


I agree your right that no one knows if my home is going to be suitable for Paisley however I have offered to foster her in a temporary basis with the intention of adopting her if she gets on well with my two dogs, surely she would be better off with me who has experience of working line shepherds and can give her the 1-1 training that she so desperately needs rather than her being in rescue kennels getting very limited 1-1 training, a rescue that obviously does not understand her needs as a working line GSD.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I agree it would be great if they could work together but we only have to frequent the breeding pages of this forum and look through adverts on gumtree or whatever its called to see there are so many breeders out there that rescues really wouldn't want to cooperate with in any way. I also don't quite understand what is stopping the breeder or the stud dog owner from using their contacts to find Paisley a suitable home anyway, if they have a suitable contact then why can't that contact apply for Paisley without mentioning that they happen to know the breeder or stud dog owner? And just to play devils advocate once again (I have red horns and everything you know) how do we know that the forum member here is the right home for Paisley either? There is a lot of back slapping going on but not many questions being asked but I guess that is down to the rescue to sort out.


My my you're feeling naughty today aren't you? (I was gonna say horny as a pun but that really is a whole different level of awkward :Wideyed ).

Very true on the forum member, we don't. Although owning a working line Mali and GSD I would say that they probably have at least a "sense" of what they're walking into with this girl.

I agree with you on the breeder and stud owner looking for suitable homes, if it was one of mine (my imaginary puppies because neither have my boys have sired a thing!) I would be doing exactly that.

However, how do we know they haven't tried that and the rescue has been overly cautious in their approach? One would only have to track someone's profile on Facebook to know who their contacts are and stop any further interest in the bitch.

I do worry about this rescue, I would like to think they are good hearted people who think they are doing the best for the dogs in their care (well I hope they are rather than the occasional glory hunters we see). However the dog "Rico" worries me, the term "rehab" worries me, their lack of answers when it comes to training these dogs worries me. Their attitude worries me and from what I can gather, they're not as experienced as they would like to believe.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I agree it would be great if they could work together but we only have to frequent the breeding pages of this forum and look through adverts on gumtree or whatever its called to see there are so many breeders out there that rescues really wouldn't want to cooperate with in any way. I also don't quite understand what is stopping the breeder or the stud dog owner from using their contacts to find Paisley a suitable home anyway, if they have a suitable contact then why can't that contact apply for Paisley without mentioning that they happen to know the breeder or stud dog owner? And just to play devils advocate once again (I have red horns and everything you know) how do we know that the forum member here is the right home for Paisley either? There is a lot of back slapping going on but not many questions being asked but I guess that is down to the rescue to sort out.


Do you have FB? Have you seen what is posted in public by this rescue? The photos, the videos? The comments, lack of answers to basic questions like "is she good with other dogs?"

Just as breeders are on a spectrum from POS puppy farmers to the best of the best who do everything they can to ensure a good life for their dogs, so are rescues. In the US we have "rescues" that are little more than puppy flippers, hoarders, and fronts for BYB. We have rescues with good intentions but no experience or skill, and then there are fantastic rescues who do amazing work. It's a spectrum all the way from awful to awesome.

Having the title "rescue" is no more descriptive than having the title "breeder". Just because someone is a rescue does not mean they are a good rescue, does not mean they know what they're doing, does not mean they have the dog's best interest in mind.

I do not know where this particular rescue falls on the spectrum, but I can't see that Paisley is any better off a year on.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Do you have FB? Have you seen what is posted in public by this rescue? The photos, the videos? The comments, lack of answers to basic questions like "is she good with other dogs?"
> 
> Just as breeders are on a spectrum from POS puppy farmers to the best of the best who do everything they can to ensure a good life for their dogs, so are rescues. In the US we have "rescues" that are little more than puppy flippers, hoarders, and fronts for BYB. We have rescues with good intentions but no experience or skill, and then there are fantastic rescues who do amazing work. It's a spectrum all the way from awful to awesome.
> 
> ...


No I don't do facebook but I have read the links posted. To be absolutely clear (as I think you already know) I am not saying they are a good rescue as I have no knowledge or experience of them, I am not saying the breeder is a bad breeder nor the stud dog owner a bad person. I have offered some "possible" reasons for why the rescue may be behaving in a way that the rest of us (yes me included) do not agree with and cannot understand and I've mentioned a few concerns about the breeder that I have myself and suggested they could still try to find a suitable home amongst their working contacts who could still apply for Paisley.

@MissPink I don't doubt you have Paisley's best interests at heart and I would dearly love to see her out of those kennels but I must admit I would have concerns given that your other dogs are quite young (please correct me if I've got that wrong) and your bitch hasn't been with you very long. However I'm sure you know what you can cope with better than I do so I wish you every success.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MissPink said:


> Yes it's the same bitch.
> She came part trained, my Malinois is trained to the standard that we want him although as with every dog training is an ongoing thing so we thought it was time to add another dog but my partner wasn't keen on a puppy, originally we were going to rehome a GSD through a rescue centre however we came up against some issues with a couple of rescue centres (they were not keen rehoming a GSD with another shepherd dog with high drive with my partners disability) I was then made aware from the person selling Poppy that she was looking for a new home so decided that we would be the home for her. She and my Malinois get on okay, had no issues with her settling in and she is now part of the family. My partner and I are really hoping that Paisley will be able to join us soon.
> 
> I agree your right that no one knows if my home is going to be suitable for Paisley however I have offered to foster her in a temporary basis with the intention of adopting her if she gets on well with my two dogs, surely she would be better off with me who has experience of working line shepherds and can give her the 1-1 training that she so desperately needs rather than her being in rescue kennels getting very limited 1-1 training, a rescue that obviously does not understand her needs as a working line GSD.


Well, if you feel you are the right home and have the time to give to Paisley, good luck to you and I would love it if you would keep us informed how you get on.

Do you compete with your other dogs?


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

@MissPink I don't doubt you have Paisley's best interests at heart and I would dearly love to see her out of those kennels but I must admit I would have concerns given that your other dogs are quite young (please correct me if I've got that wrong) and your bitch hasn't been with you very long. However I'm sure you know what you can cope with better than I do so I wish you every success.[/QUOTE]

Yes my dogs are young (Malinois is 2, GSD is 19 months) and yes I do work part time but when I am not working I spend all my time with my animals. 
My partner does not work, he retired early on medical grounds so he is at home all the time. 
My dogs are well trained, well socialised and very obedient. 
I can appreciate your concerns regarding the age of my dogs and the fact that I haven't had my bitch very long however I spent 6/7hours a day training, socialising and bonding with my Malinois when I first got him and the hard work has paid off because I now have a dog that is a pleasure to own. 
I added a WL GSD to the family because of the high drive and high energy of my Malinois and so far I have had no issues. 
I spend hours every day with both of my dogs improving and continuing their training separately and together. 
I see no issue in adding another WL GSD to the family, I have the time and patience and I'm willing to put the commitment in to Paisley to try and get her to the standard of my other dogs.



Moobli said:


> Well, if you feel you are the right home and have the time to give to Paisley, good luck to you and I would love it if you would keep us informed how you get on.
> 
> Do you compete with your other dogs?


Of course I will keep you informed on how I get on.

If I didn't believe that I had the time or patience or knowledge to give Paisley a home I would never have applied to foster her with the intention of adopting her!

I don't compete with my other dogs however I do have the help of a very good trainer who gives me pointers etc. I also spent a fortune on my own agility equipment so both of my dogs do some agility, they do scent work/tracking, always improving their obedience training, do some fun stuff such as tricks, I've trained my Malinois to sniff out money, both of my dogs are trained in protection work, Malinois is fully trained but has ongoing training and GSD had some protection training when I homed her so we have carried that on.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> @MissPink I don't doubt you have Paisley's best interests at heart and I would dearly love to see her out of those kennels but I must admit I would have concerns given that your other dogs are quite young (please correct me if I've got that wrong) and your bitch hasn't been with you very long. However I'm sure you know what you can cope with better than I do so I wish you every success.


The stark contrast between @MissPink thorough and measured responses to inquiries about her suitability as a home versus the rescue's shouty defensive non-answers speaks volumes to me.

Sometimes that gut feeling is just good common sense


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ouesi said:


> The stark contrast between @MissPink thorough and measured responses to inquiries about her suitability as a home versus the rescue's shouty defensive non-answers speaks volumes to me.
> 
> Sometimes that gut feeling is just good common sense


I was listening to a Suzanne Clothier seminar earlier and she talks about this 'gut feeling' we have and how there's something in it because 90% of nerves in the vagus go from gut to the brain and not the other way around. 
It used to be believed that the feeling you got 'in your gut' came from your brain, when in fact! It's the other way around -your brain is triggered by what you are feeling in your gut.

Sorry, slightly off topic but it's very interesting!


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

@MissPink - I didn't mean to imply you were going into this with your eyes closed - as that clearly isn't the case. As you already live with a WL Malinois and have recently also taken on a WL GSD I am sure you know what to expect.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

If the dog was rehomed to the rescue with the intention that the owner doesn't want it handed back to the breeder then I would be disappointed if the rescue handed the dog straight back to the breeder.

I've not seen much on the rescue don't even know who it is but have to be so careful what you post on line it's not professional to openly slag other people off and can easily end with tit for tat online where no one Comes out of it looking good. Some things don't need to be aired for the world to see on facebook.

I've only skim read but makes you wonder on the breeder if rehomed such a difficult dog to completely the wrong home.. and the dog is that unmanageable to an inexperienced but not complete idiots home at under a year old (is that right) what kind of dog she may be? I don't know much about working line gsd are they that unmanageable?


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

QUOTE="Moobli, post: 1064561328, member: 1316467"]@MissPink - I didn't mean to imply you were going into this with your eyes closed - as that clearly isn't the case. As you already live with a WL Malinois and have recently also taken on a WL GSD I am sure you know what to expect.[/QUOTE]

I took no offence from your post, I'm just simply trying to assure all those that are concerned for her wellbeing that I am not an inexperienced owner as I already have two working line shepherds therefore I am fully aware of the needs of a working line dog.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

EmCHammer said:


> If the dog was rehomed to the rescue with the intention that the owner doesn't want it handed back to the breeder then I would be disappointed if the rescue handed the dog straight back to the breeder.
> 
> I've not seen much on the rescue don't even know who it is but have to be so careful what you post on line it's not professional to openly slag other people off and can easily end with tit for tat online where no one Comes out of it looking good. Some things don't need to be aired for the world to see on facebook.
> 
> I've only skim read but makes you wonder on the breeder if rehomed such a difficult dog to completely the wrong home.. and the dog is that unmanageable to an inexperienced but not complete idiots home at under a year old (is that right) what kind of dog she may be? I don't know much about working line gsd are they that unmanageable?


Yes, WL GSDs really are that unmanageable *in the wrong environment*. These really are the kind of dog where the environment can totally transform them.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Reading back it's all I think this and I think that about breeder and rescue isn't it.. we do t know the reasons I just hope that misspinks application is given proper consideration and is properly checked out and things have a good outcome


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Honestly, at this point I don’t think opinions about the breeder OR the rescue matter much.

What we DO know:
The rescue has had her for 9 months, at least 6 of which she has been kept in kennels.
In that time they have not managed to get her in foster care or in a home. 
The longer she is in kennels the longer she will get to practice neurotic, overstimulated, and inappropriate behaviors and have them further ingrained.

Paisley needs a home. The sooner, the better.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The comments on the FB page are just ridiculous now. Can't help but feel a bit defensive about all these 'she should never have been rehomed to someone in a flat' comments as if that reason alone was the result of her owner's incompetence


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> The comments on the FB page are just ridiculous now. Can't help but feel a bit defensive about all these 'she should never have been rehomed to someone in a flat' comments as if that reason alone was the result of her owner's incompetence


Right. As if a flat were the worst thing in the world that could happen to a dog. 
Much better for the dog to be in kennels for 6 months (/sarcasm)

So much going on on that page that gives me pause.
The post about not posting Mac's story because of the negative comments about Paisley - WTH? What does Mac have to do with Paisley? How is that helpful to Mac?

And why so evasive about whatever Paisley's "issues" are? They're happy to post for the world to see that the dog "Rico" has a history of multiple bites including to them, yet they won't answer a simple question about if Paisley is good with other dogs or not?

Something is just not adding up - which I've said from the beginning....


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@ouesi

Totally agree. I said pages ago that this whole story is fishier then Grimbsy Docks.

It doesn't add up.


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> The comments on the FB page are just ridiculous now. Can't help but feel a bit defensive about all these 'she should never have been rehomed to someone in a flat' comments as if that reason alone was the result of her owner's incompetence


Totally agree with this. I fail to understand how a flat has anything to do with raising a dog responsibly. Our flat is ground floor, we have our own entrance, the rooms are bigger than some houses I have visited and we manage to have a large breed. I cant see how our flat in particular is any different from somebody living in a bungalow. 
I could perhaps understand a high rise flat in a busy town centre is not the best option for a large breed dog but I guess it all depends on the commitment and work the owner puts in. Accommodation, in my opinion, should not determine whether somebody could or could not manage a dog.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

As some of you already know... I'm in a caravan and having a working line BC... There are worse things (societies view not mine I love it lol) than flats and it can still work!

It's about putting in the time and dedication

More martyrdom woe is us we're the victims... pee off!!!


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Okay, answer to what her "issues" are.
From one reply on the FB page:
"I saw Paisley a few days after she'd gone into a foster home. They brought her along on the group walk to try to work on her social skills. Sadly they had to abandon the walk after only 15mins as they just couldn't hold on to her & she was trying to attack every dog she came into contact with. The poor lab who belonged to the foster family couldn't get a minutes peace & they decided Paisley needed far more help & work than they were able to give. We had no foster homes with anyone with the experience to handle such a hyper active wl dog so she was taken to our re-hab kennels where the ladies work very hard on the dogs issues after an initial period of assessment to work out what the dog's issues may be & how best to work on them."
Lots to comment on there, but suffice it to say I'm glad these posts are getting a lot of attention and I hope a home can be found and quickly.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

XemzX said:


> Totally agree with this. I fail to understand how a flat has anything to do with raising a dog responsibly. Our flat is ground floor, we have our own entrance, the rooms are bigger than some houses I have visited and we manage to have a large breed. I cant see how our flat in particular is any different from somebody living in a bungalow.
> I could perhaps understand a high rise flat in a busy town centre is not the best option for a large breed dog but I guess it all depends on the commitment and work the owner puts in. Accommodation, in my opinion, should not determine whether somebody could or could not manage a dog.


Exactly. As long as the dog's needs are met I really don't see how living in a flat is any different than living in a mansion? As already stated it's not the accommodation she was living in was that in question here, or at fault, but unfortunately the fact her owner couldn't meet her needs or devote the time needed to her.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

It's so much harder if there are dog aggression issues as many of the experienced homes tend to have dogs already .. although seems some difference in between attacking every dog and not giving the resident lab any peace so can only assume what issues there might be x


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Okay, answer to what her "issues" are.
> From one reply on the FB page:
> "I saw Paisley a few days after she'd gone into a foster home. They brought her along on the group walk to try to work on her social skills. Sadly they had to abandon the walk after only 15mins as they just couldn't hold on to her & she was trying to attack every dog she came into contact with. The poor lab who belonged to the foster family couldn't get a minutes peace & they decided Paisley needed far more help & work than they were able to give. We had no foster homes with anyone with the experience to handle such a hyper active wl dog so she was taken to our re-hab kennels where the ladies work very hard on the dogs issues after an initial period of assessment to work out what the dog's issues may be & how best to work on them."
> Lots to comment on there, but suffice it to say I'm glad these posts are getting a lot of attention and I hope a home can be found and quickly.


Well, we know BM was having issues with her reacting at other dogs/people, so not entirely surprising that throwing her in at the deep end would result in such a meltdown. They still don't give details as to what progress has been made since though do they?


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

EmCHammer said:


> It's so much harder if there are dog aggression issues as many of the experienced homes tend to have dogs already .. although seems some difference in between attacking every dog and not giving the resident lab any peace so can only assume what issues there might be x


Paisley was 7 months old at the time. I highly doubt she was dog aggressive. I think she was under socialized, under stimulated, and typical PITA WL dog who won't leave anyone alone unless trained to do so. 
I would bet good money the "trying to attack" was probably over the top frustration and over arousal. Many adult dogs could not handle a group walk, let alone a 7 month old puppy....


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Paisley was 7 months old at the time. I highly doubt she was dog aggressive. I think she was under socialized, under stimulated, and typical PITA WL dog who won't leave anyone alone unless trained to do so.
> I would bet good money the "trying to attack" was probably over the top frustration and over arousal. Many adult dogs could not handle a group walk, let alone a 7 month old puppy....


Yep, I'd assume the not 'giving the Lab a moments peace' is very typical of this type of dog. I know Cash is a sod for bothering Ty at times and was at it's peak around the same age as Paisley. So I can only imagine what an explosion that type of behavior would have been to the unsuspecting foster home.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> Yep, I'd assume the not 'giving the Lab a moments peace' is very typical of this type of dog. I know Cash is a sod for bothering Ty at times and was at it's peak around the same age as Paisley. So I can only imagine what an explosion that type of behavior would have been to the unsuspecting foster home.


Breez is a mellow great dane. Until she lost her puppy teeth, Bates looked like a bait dog with his face covered in cuts and missing fur from where she used him as his chew toy. At about 7 months she started losing puppy license, but it was still a mad house around here. Puppies don't leave ANY dog alone. They're a pain in the ass no matter what the breed! 

We always make "puppy free" zones for the older dogs.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Paisley was 7 months old at the time. I highly doubt she was dog aggressive. I think she was under socialized, under stimulated, and typical PITA WL dog who won't leave anyone alone unless trained to do so.
> I would bet good money the "trying to attack" was probably over the top frustration and over arousal. Many adult dogs could not handle a group walk, let alone a 7 month old puppy....


This x100!!! all of the above with the added fact they are total gobshites......

In foster with a Lab owner with no working GSD experience, well derp, handing them a teenage GSD (particularly one who's had zero input!) was never going to work! basically they had no one suitable to take such a dog as a foster.......well why accept the dog in the first place?!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

labradrk said:


> This x100!!! all of the above with the added fact they are total gobshites......
> 
> In foster with a Lab owner with no working GSD experience, well derp, handing them a teenage GSD (particularly one who's had zero input!) was never going to work! basically they had no one suitable to take such a dog as a foster.......well why accept the dog in the first place?!


And then harp on about the breeder making wrong decisions on where he let Paisley go to........


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Have they deleted all the posts? 

I went to have a look and there's nothing since the 3rd of June


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Have they deleted all the posts?
> 
> I went to have a look and there's nothing since the 3rd of June


Everything still there for me. 
Try refreshing the page, or maybe they've blocked you


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Everything still there for me.
> Try refreshing the page, or maybe they've blocked you


I am not on Facebook so impossible to block me  maybe because I'm at bingo on me mobile. I'll have to wait till I'm home.


----------



## evel-lin (Jul 1, 2010)

Pappychi said:


> Have they deleted all the posts?
> 
> I went to have a look and there's nothing since the 3rd of June


still there for me


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think part of the problem in this case though was the communal garden which was shared with elderly neighbours. I don't think a communal garden is an ideal scenario for a WL GSD. Plus the home circumstances are relevant, if the owner is busy with very young children and there is no private garden for the dog to let some steam off in or to do bits of training/scent work in then the dog is likely going to get bored unless the owner puts a lot of effort in. Your average pet owner isn't going to do that, I seem to remember there was an issue with transport and not being able to attend classes until the OH was home to look after the children so Paisley's walks were often to and from school/nursery which obviously wasn't satisfactory.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2016)

There are soooooo many things I want to respond to on that page, but I think it's best to leave it alone.
They seem very defensive, and I would hate for the arrangements with @MissPink to fall through because they're feeling attacked.

Not that anything anyone has questioned on there was wrong, I agree with the points made, I just think that if they're thin skinned enough to post the little tidbit about not posting "Mac's" story, I wouldn't put it past them to not release Paisley to any home


----------



## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't know much about GSDs beyond the fact that they're big and hairy (two things I dislike in my dogs - I'm a terrier and collie person - but big and hairy does sound remarkably like my OH!) but in that video poor Paisley looks wild 

Well done to the people who are making a concerted effort to try and make this dogs life a little better, and a little easier. I think even I could have done a better job of "rehabbing" her in the time frame involved


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2016)

@MissPink hoping things are moving forward


----------



## MissPink (Mar 6, 2015)

ouesi said:


> @MissPink hoping things are moving forward


I haven't heard anything from the rescue yet. I did phone them this morning but just got 'these things take time' so I guess it's just a waiting game.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

MissPink said:


> I haven't heard anything from the rescue yet. I did phone them this morning but just got 'these things take time' so I guess it's just a waiting game.


I wonder what "takes time"


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> I wonder what "takes time"


Organising a volunteer to do a home check I should think especially if MissPink is a bit out of their area.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes, I do hope they're taking your application seriously @MissPink. Especially as they insist her welfare is of paramount importance and want her in a good home too. Hopefully you will hear something at some point this week.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

In view of this comment posted by @ouesi on the previous page I would imagine they are also giving careful consideration as to whether they feel Paisley is suitable to live with an assistance dog

"I saw Paisley a few days after she'd gone into a foster home. They brought her along on the group walk to try to work on her social skills. Sadly they had to abandon the walk after only 15mins as they just couldn't hold on to her & she was trying to attack every dog she came into contact with. The poor lab who belonged to the foster family couldn't get a minutes peace & they decided Paisley needed far more help & work than they were able to give. We had no foster homes with anyone with the experience to handle such a hyper active wl dog so she was taken to our re-hab kennels where the ladies work very hard on the dogs issues after an initial period of assessment to work out what the dog's issues may be & how best to work on them."


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> In view of this comment posted by @ouesi on the previous page I would imagine they are also giving careful consideration as to whether they feel Paisley is suitable to live with an assistance dog
> 
> "I saw Paisley a few days after she'd gone into a foster home. They brought her along on the group walk to try to work on her social skills. Sadly they had to abandon the walk after only 15mins as they just couldn't hold on to her & she was trying to attack every dog she came into contact with. The poor lab who belonged to the foster family couldn't get a minutes peace & they decided Paisley needed far more help & work than they were able to give. We had no foster homes with anyone with the experience to handle such a hyper active wl dog so she was taken to our re-hab kennels where the ladies work very hard on the dogs issues after an initial period of assessment to work out what the dog's issues may be & how best to work on them."


JMO, but I don't think the issue is living with other dogs. I think the issue is management living with other dogs.
Properly managed I don't see why she wouldn't be fine with other dogs in the home.
Of course that's for the rescue to decide, but at this point almost any home would be better than continuing to stay in the kennels....


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> JMO, but I don't think the issue is living with other dogs. I think the issue is management living with other dogs.
> Properly managed I don't see why she wouldn't be fine with other dogs in the home.
> Of course that's for the rescue to decide, but at this point almost any home would be better than continuing to stay in the kennels....


Quite but I guess that will depend on the type of set up @MissPink has to enable her to stop Paisley from getting OTT with the assistance dog. I'm not sure it would do her a whole heap of good to be bounced straight back again if she is too much for the existing two dogs particularly given one has a very special role within the household.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

ouesi said:


> MO, but I don't think the issue is living with other dogs. I think the issue is management living with other dogs.
> Properly managed I don't see why she wouldn't be fine with other dogs in the home.
> Of course that's for the rescue to decide, but at this point almost any home would be better than continuing to stay in the kennels....


I can't see how any home would be better than being in kennels. The right home would be 100% better than being in kennels but not just any home. Any home was how the whole situation started ?

Does anyone know of the behaviourists that the rescue uses? And if they happy with their methods and experience? As I am sure if well thought of they are better judged to know where she would be better off living than a bunch of people on the internet, however experienced (and I don't doubt peoples experience here) but rehoming difficult dogs isn't just as easy as giving them to any home.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I don't know which behaviourist they use but I'd be interested to know, just from a few things I've read on their page


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

EmCHammer said:


> I can't see how any home would be better than being in kennels. The right home would be 100% better than being in kennels but not just any home. Any home was how the whole situation started ?
> 
> Does anyone know of the behaviourists that the rescue uses? And if they happy with their methods and experience? As I am sure if well thought of they are better judged to know where she would be better off living than a bunch of people on the internet, however experienced (and I don't doubt peoples experience here) but rehoming difficult dogs isn't just as easy as giving them to any home.


They don't use a behaviourist. They opened a rescue so they are automatically experts apparently. 
Someone stated that they were originally working with a behaviourist but they're not any more. 
To be honest, I think most of us here know more than they seemingly do... But they're a rescue so people assume (wrongly) that they know what they're doing and are good at it. No credentials, no qualifications yet they're running a rehabilitation centre.

Sounds legit.

And to be frank! After watching one video and listening to what they have said about her (or lack of) I can absolutely say that the rescue she is with, are not being successful in her rehabilitation, whatever they think she needs.

I picked up enough from a 30 second clip of her being 'her' to decipher that what they are apparently doing with her is not working.

She's been in rehab for seven months and she's still 'mad'. Yeah, anyone who works with dogs worth their salt will know that Change in her routine/rehab is needed.

Besides, what exactly is wrong with her? 
She's over-aroused? And what? She's a young WL GSD. That's not difficult to work with. 
She's under-stimulated? You think! She's living in kennels and not getting the time she needs dedicated to her. Again, easy fix. 
She's hyper? Yeah, see above. That's probably because she's over-aroused and under-stimulated.

No. All this rescue has said is that she's mad and needs constant stimulation. I'm sorry, no dog need 24/7 stimulation. Unless of course, over-aroused is what you're aiming for.

She needs time, suitable outlets, training (impulse control and focus) and someone who knows what they're doing. None of which I believe she is currently receiving. 
They still haven't told me what they're rehab consists of, they haven't answered a question about her basic obedience. They haven't even brushed her!


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Lauren5159 said:


> They don't use a behaviourist. They opened a rescue so they are automatically experts apparently.
> Someone stated that they were originally working with a behaviourist but they're not any more.
> To be honest, I think most of us here know more than they seemingly do... But they're a rescue so people assume (wrongly) that they know what they're doing and are good at it. No credentials, no qualifications yet they're running a rehabilitation centre.
> 
> ...


They are too busy providing 24/7 stimulation to be able to brush her


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@Lauren5159 my baby brother taught me a new word today, all the kids are using it apparently, so in the interests of being hip and cool, I shall use it.

Preach .

The 24/7 stimulation really baffled me, it is probably hyperbole but if it isn't that would imply that this bitch's future owner shouldn't sleep otherwise their dog will run riot.

Um, no.

She needs to be channelled. All that wonderfully intelligent and keen mind needs is the right source for it to be used, she needs a job. She doesn't need to be overstimulated 24/7 nor does she need to be let out of kennels to run round and 'let off steam'.

I can't help but dislike this rescue from their shoddy answers, bitchy statuses and ridiculous profiles - exhibits a, b and c being Rico, Paisley, and Duke.

I think they have a misplaced sense of authority and knowledge. My grandmother would say 'know it all yet know nothing'.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> @Lauren5159 my baby brother taught me a new word today, all the kids are using it apparently, so in the interests of being hip and cool, I shall use it.
> 
> Preach .
> 
> ...


I'll make it cooler for you....

#preach :Smug


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Pappychi said:


> The 24/7 stimulation really baffled me, it is probably hyperbole but if it isn't that would imply that this bitch's future owner shouldn't sleep otherwise their dog will run riot.
> 
> Um, no.
> 
> She needs to be channelled. All that wonderfully intelligent and keen mind needs is the right source for it to be used, she needs a job. She doesn't need to be overstimulated 24/7 nor does she need to be let out of kennels to run round and 'let off steam'.



And that, imo, is a mistake a lot make with a high energy and intelligent dog. They focus on it needing stimulation ALL THE TIME! When in fact often they need to be taught to chill out. Obviously they still need sufficient physical exercise and mental stimulation but they also need to learn that there are times to just chill out. And often the exercise and stimulation people give are the wrong sort, hyping the dog up more and more instead of actually helping calm it down in any way.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have no idea wtf happened with my post there!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lauren5159 said:


> I'll make it cooler for you....
> 
> #preach :Smug


LIKE OMG WE ARE SO COOL *bumps fists* 



Sarah1983 said:


> And that, imo, is a mistake a lot make with a high energy and intelligent dog. They focus on it needing stimulation ALL THE TIME! When in fact often they need to be taught to chill out. Obviously they still need sufficient physical exercise and mental stimulation but they also need to learn that there are times to just chill out. And often the exercise and stimulation people give are the wrong sort, hyping the dog up more and more instead of actually helping calm it down in any way.


I agree with you 100%.

I just couldn't help but chuckle at the 24/7 stimulation comment. If you have a partner does that mean you have to take shifts?

'Right you stimulate her during the daylight hours and I'll do the nighttime hours. Got it?'

Are there people outside at 3 o clock in the morning teaching impulse control/high-level obedience?

Is there a whole secret world of 24/7 stimulation we all aren't privy too because our dogs haven't got the drive/mind to need it?

I know it is definitely an exaggeration on the rescues part but it did make me go


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Sarah1983 said:


> I have no idea wtf happened with my post there!


I did wonder :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

My hyper on the go 24/7 dog benefitted hugely when I backed off with the stimulation, and exercise, and focused on teaching him to settle instead.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

And here's another #preach 

Why does no one these days (in general dog training) reward the nothing?
Why do we (general we) always reward physical behaviours when in fact teaching a dog that chilling out is good -is a huge thing! Especially in WL breeds.
If you don't and the dog isn't effectively taught to chill out, you end up with a dog like poor Paisley. And if anything, you're making things harder. And other people pick up the pieces.

Instead, this rescue is making the common mistake (they should know better since apparently they're experts) that she needs constant stimulation.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm gonna change it up a bit and use the term which was used during my school years.

#word.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Ah was I mislead by the rehab centre?

Our rescue has got a behaviourist with kennels where our asbo dogs go to get one on one training. He has done wonders with some of the dogs but they still need very experienced homes to take them to the next level and they are not easy to come by certainly for the types of dogs we have in. It does seem there is quite a community of people in the world of w/l gsd who are on hand in this case .. with our bully types that doesn't happen!

However I don't know the credentials or experience of the people running the rescue or the rehab or the people offering advice to comment on that.

it can be wearing as a rescue when the world and his wife think they could do better than you and what you are doing is wrong and being g under barrage on facebook is not nice but hopefully the wheat will get sorted from the chaff of what constitutes proper offers of help rather than slagging off and away from the public eye things are happening


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> I'm gonna change it up a bit and use the term which was used during my school years.
> 
> #word.


#yougogurl!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

EmCHammer said:


> I*t does seem there is quite a community of people in the world of w/l gsd who are on hand in this case* .


The worrying thing for myself is that this particular rescue doesn't seem to want to have these people on hand.

The breeder has been rebuffed. So has the stud dog owner. The bitch's half brother's owner has also been rebuffed. The advice of working line GSD owners has also been 'ignored' if you will.

They had a massive hissy fit on their page which included something along the lines of 'YOU ALL KNOW NOTHING!!!!!'

I have to agree with another poster, if this girl is still 'mad' and has issues after being with them for so long one does have to wonder what their 'rehab' consists of.

She's clearly understimulated and over-aroused. The video clip has a description claiming 'this is what we have to do every morning to let her let off steam', if that's how the bitch is every morning it's a wonder she isn't a complete mess.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yeah it's all very hush hush as to what this 'rehab' actually consists of. People keeping posting replies saying the people at the rescue are 'experienced', but in what we have no idea as they're very allusive. If they're not working with a behaviorist anymore than I fail to see how they're 'rehabbing' her.

What I also find rather odd is that Paisley's 'profile' is the most limited in terms of her personality and likes/dislikes/what home she's looking for etc, and I feel a rather negative vibe towards her when they speak of her, like she's a bloody nuisance to them more than anything.


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2016)

Lexiedhb said:


> My hyper on the go 24/7 dog benefitted hugely when I backed off with the stimulation, and exercise, and focused on teaching him to settle instead.


Yup. Bates is only a medium drive dog, not necessarily a good "pet" but not a WL anything either. He's 8, and at 8 years old, I still, multiple times a day, have to say "all done, go lie down". He knows to settle, and he will, but I had to purposefully teach it and continue to reinforce it.



EmCHammer said:


> I can't see how any home would be better than being in kennels. The right home would be 100% better than being in kennels but not just any home. Any home was how the whole situation started ?
> 
> Does anyone know of the behaviourists that the rescue uses? And if they happy with their methods and experience? As I am sure if well thought of they are better judged to know where she would be better off living than a bunch of people on the internet, however experienced (and I don't doubt peoples experience here) but rehoming difficult dogs isn't just as easy as giving them to any home.


I didn't say "any" home, I said "almost any home" and I mean that. I'd rather see her in a less than ideal home than continue in kennels under some iffy "rehab" program.



Pappychi said:


> I can't help but dislike this rescue from their shoddy answers, bitchy statuses and ridiculous profiles - exhibits a, b and c being Rico, Paisley, and Duke.


I did some searching this morning comparing their FB page to their website. Based on that info, I've figured out that one dog has been in kennels nearly a year, another a year and a half, another TWO years. I stopped looking after that 

I'm all for responsible rescue. But it's not in the interest of ANY dog to be in a kennel environment for two years. I don't care what their issues are.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> I did some searching this morning comparing their FB page to their website. Based on that info, I've figured out that one dog has been in kennels nearly a year, another a year and a half, another TWO years. I stopped looking after that
> 
> I'm all for responsible rescue. But it's not in the interest of ANY dog to be in a kennel environment for two years. I don't care what their issues are.


Bloody hell .

To be honest, Paisley breaks my heart, Duke makes me wonder and Rico baffles me.

I would seriously love to know what their 'rehab' consists of. Anyone with half an ounce of dog sense can see what Paisley's issues is.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Yeah it's all very hush hush as to what this 'rehab' actually consists of. People keeping posting replies saying the people at the rescue are 'experienced', but in what we have no idea as they're very allusive. If they're not working with a behaviorist anymore than I fail to see how they're 'rehabbing' her.
> 
> *What I also find rather odd is that Paisley's 'profile' is the most limited in terms of her personality and likes/dislikes/what home she's looking for etc, and I feel a rather negative vibe towards her when they speak of her, like she's a bloody nuisance to them more than anything*.


The whole thing surrounding her is very odd. Like Lauren said previously, it's almost like they _like_ having her there because she is well bred, a sort of 'look breeders are evil. Even the "good" ones end up with dogs in rescue' but when it comes down to it they haven't got a fudging clue what to do with her.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm sorry but I really think its time to back off now. Not one of us has met Paisley and as far as I can tell not one of us knows the people involved in this rescue, they must feel totally demoralised and under attack. Does anyone actually know what experience they have? And how many of us actually have experience of owning and rehabilitating a dog like Paisley? one or two perhaps but not many. Like it or not and I know none of us do, Paisley is there and her future fate is in their hands so I fail to see what will be achieved by antagonising them further. Should they find their way to this site (its happened many times before when someone is being discussed and a friend of a friend directs them here) they may well refuse to consider any of the potential homes which would be a shame. I think we've all made our point and should let things take their course now and stop making huge assumptions and judgements about people who aren't here to defend themselves.


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2016)

I do feel sorry for Paisley having to sit in rescue for such a long time.
@BigMomma didn't get the right breed, the decision was made in a whim and it blew up in their faces.
You were all slagging BigMomma off, however, I do think she made the right decision handing Paisley over as if her behaviour was already bad, we don't know how much more worse it could have got if Paisley had stayed.
Something about this rescue/breeder situation doesn't add up. 
I admire BigMomma for her bravery and honesty. I think it was fairer for paisley to live with more capable hands. 
The Rescue makes me suspicious though...


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm sorry but I really think its time to back off now. Not one of us has met Paisley and as far as I can tell not one of us knows the people involved in this rescue, they must feel totally demoralised and under attack. Does anyone actually know what experience they have? And how many of us actually have experience of owning and rehabilitating a dog like Paisley? one or two perhaps but not many. Like it or not and I know none of us do, Paisley is there and her future fate is in their hands so I fail to see what will be achieved by antagonising them further. Should they find their way to this site (its happened many times before when someone is being discussed and a friend of a friend directs them here) they may well refuse to consider any of the potential homes which would be a shame. I think we've all made our point and should let things take their course now and stop making huge assumptions and judgements about people who aren't here to defend themselves.


In all fairness, we can discuss what we want. We can air our thoughts and opinions if we want.

I understand what you're saying but I personally couldn't give a monkies what the rescue think. We've all asked them genuine questions in order to decipher what is going on and they've refused to answer so naturally, we can only make assumptions -the rescue made sure of that. We gave them the chance to defend themselves and they didn't.

We can draw our own conclussions based on what we know -we're entitled to it.
Discussing a topic further may well be educational to someone reading along or who comes across this thread in the future.

Some of us like to discuss alternative rehabilitation options amoungst ourselves. We like to learn from each other and these threads give us an outlet for that.
If the rescue come across this thread and on that basis, refuse Paisley a good home, then that solidifies my point further. Pride should not stand in the way of rescue work. In fact, if they are allowing their pride to override their rationale then more fool them!
They really don't have Paisley's best interest at heart.


----------



## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm sorry but I really think its time to back off now. Not one of us has met Paisley and as far as I can tell not one of us knows the people involved in this rescue, they must feel totally demoralised and under attack. Does anyone actually know what experience they have? And how many of us actually have experience of owning and rehabilitating a dog like Paisley? one or two perhaps but not many. Like it or not and I know none of us do, Paisley is there and her future fate is in their hands so I fail to see what will be achieved by antagonising them further. Should they find their way to this site (its happened many times before when someone is being discussed and a friend of a friend directs them here) they may well refuse to consider any of the potential homes which would be a shame. I think we've all made our point and should let things take their course now and stop making huge assumptions and judgements about people who aren't here to defend themselves.


I would imagine it's very easy to find this thread as if they have any internet nouse they should be able to track back to the links on this thread, but I agree with you RPH, it's easy to sit back and make guesses and assumptions on a dodgy write up and a 30 second video, but I can't imagine this thread will help Paisley's cause.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> In all fairness, we can discuss what we want. We can air our thoughts and opinions if we want.
> 
> I understand what you're saying but I personally couldn't give a monkies what the rescue think. We've all asked them genuine questions in order to decipher what is going on and they've refused to answer so naturally, we can only make assumptions -the rescue made sure of that. We gave them the chance to defend themselves and they didn't.
> 
> ...


Of course we can all discuss what we want to and say what we want to and imply what we want to but if as a group we really have Paisley's best interests at heart then why do we need to labour the point? Its all been said and its all been asked. The rescue are equally entitled not to reply, they don't have to, at the end of the day BigMomma put Paisley in their care, they have paid for her upkeep for many many months and have invested in her both with their time and emotion which none of us have. I'm afraid if I was running that rescue I would not feel the need to defend myself to a bunch of strangers from an internet forum either. I agree entirely that pride should not stand in the way of rescue work but they wouldn't be human if their pride wasn't pretty shattered by the way they have been questioned/doubted/criticised/pulled to pieces by people who have never met them, visited their facilities or run a rescue. I just think that backing off them and giving them time to think over some of the concerns raised might, just might give them cause to think and re examine their decisions and perhaps talk to other people involved in GSD rescue or another behaviourist with hopefully a more positive outcome for Paisley. Perhaps the members on here involved in and experienced with the breed and with behaviourists could try and find someone who would volunteer their time to do some one to one work with Paisley.


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Should they find their way to this site (its happened many times before when someone is being discussed and a friend of a friend directs them here) they may well refuse to consider any of the potential homes which would be a shame.


If they refuse Paisley a good home for no other reason than the opinions posted on this thread, then that would be incredibly petty and spiteful of them, and most certainly not in the dog's best interest.

If they have nothing to feel defensive about, then they should be able to answer the questions asked and post a sensible, measured response to the concerns people have shown. As it is, they have not.

I haven't checked their FB page this afternoon, but as of this morning no one had posted anything new, so it's not like their FB page has been continually bombarded. 
If anything, the attention has gotten more shares for Paisley's post, the more shares, the more potential homes reached.


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I keep reading the updates on this thread and hoping for the day one says "Paisley has been re-homed with an experienced WL GSD owner" but still waiting :Sorry so sad you poor poor love.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I just can't believe this poor dog is still in need of a home  Being stuck in kennels in "rehab" is clearly not helping if she's still there and still "mad" after all this time. Poor Paisley


----------



## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Looking at their website the other dogs all have a big write up , at least 6/7 sentences and Paisley has : 

7 month old bitch with bundles of energy, Vaccinated and microchipped but not yet spayed .
Currently in foster with another GSD.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Shocking to hear that some of the dogs in their 'rehab' have been there towards two years... what are earth do they do with these dogs whilst in their care ?


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Looking at their website the other dogs all have a big write up , at least 6/7 sentences and Paisley has :
> 
> 7 month old bitch with bundles of energy, Vaccinated and microchipped but not yet spayed .
> Currently in foster with another GSD.


I questioned them on that and all the could say was that they keep it brief to garner interest! 
Even though one of her two lines is a lie! She's not in foster at all, she's in kennels.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I wonder if the owner of the stud dog knows she is still there as he was willing to buy her too


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I really do think this is a poorly run rescue. I have nothing against rescues, obviously, but the way they acted so childish on facebook due to people questioning their 'rehab' ethnics and being genuinely concerned for the dog was very unprofessional and they're not replying to peoples queries. Their website is very much out of date and gives hardly any information on the dogs.

I think they need to sit back and really look into what improvements and changes can be made - its all about the dogs in their care welfare at the end of the day and clearly I don't feel they're doing enough for the dogs interests.

Very poor.


----------



## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Lauren5159 said:


> I questioned them on that and all the could say was that they keep it brief to garner interest!
> Even though *one of her two lines is a lie*! She's not in foster at all, she's in kennels.


She is also no longer 7 months old...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> I really do think this is a poorly run rescue. I have nothing against rescues, obviously, but the way they acted so childish on facebook due to people questioning their 'rehab' ethnics and being genuinely concerned for the dog was very unprofessional and they're not replying to peoples queries. Their website is very much out of date and gives hardly any information on the dogs.
> 
> I think they need to sit back and really look into what improvements and changes can be made - its all about the dogs in their care welfare at the end of the day and clearly I don't feel they're doing enough for the dogs interests.
> 
> Very poor.


So have you never retaliated in a "childish" fashion if you feel under attack? Look at it from their point of view, whether they are misguided or not they clearly love dogs and GSDs in particular, they probably put their heart and soles and a ton of their own money into running that rescue and no doubt most of their spare time. How many of us would be prepared to do the same? When you feel passionately that you are trying your best and lots of other people back you up and tell you regularly that you saved their dog's life, that you were their last hope etc etc then along come all these members from an internet forum who suddenly start posting on your facebook page asking lots of questions, some pretty forcefully and trying to tell you what you should be doing and what is in a dogs best interests, bearing in mind you are with this dog every day and said forum members haven't even met her. I think under those circumstances I would probably put up the barriers too and feel very demoralised and despondent. So their website isn't up to date - perhaps they don't have a volunteer at the moment who is capable of updating a website and perhaps they feel their own time is better spent elsewhere with the dogs.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So have you never retaliated in a "childish" fashion if you feel under attack? Look at it from their point of view, whether they are misguided or not they clearly love dogs and GSDs in particular, they probably put their heart and soles and a ton of their own money into running that rescue and no doubt most of their spare time. How many of us would be prepared to do the same? When you feel passionately that you are trying your best and lots of other people back you up and tell you regularly that you saved their dog's life, that you were their last hope etc etc then along come all these members from an internet forum who suddenly start posting on your facebook page asking lots of questions, some pretty forcefully and trying to tell you what you should be doing and what is in a dogs best interests, bearing in mind you are with this dog every day and said forum members haven't even met her. I think under those circumstances I would probably put up the barriers too and feel very demoralised and despondent. So their website isn't up to date - perhaps they don't have a volunteer at the moment who is capable of updating a website and perhaps they feel their own time is better spent elsewhere with the dogs.


But their website is nearly 10 months out of date.. it states Paisley is 7 months old.. now I believe she is 16 months old. Quite a lengthy stretch to update a website.

They should have handled the situation, I believe, a lot better than they did.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> But their website is nearly 10 months out of date.. it states Paisley is 7 months old.. now I believe she is 16 months old. Quite a lengthy stretch to update a website.
> 
> They should have handled the situation, I believe, a lot better than they did.


Perhaps they concentrate on their facebook page more than the website, some rescues don't have either and I certainly wouldn't judge whether a rescue were "poor" based on whether they kept their website updated.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Perhaps they concentrate on their facebook page more than the website, some rescues don't have either and I certainly wouldn't judge whether a rescue were "poor" based on whether they kept their website updated.


I just think their response was very poor and they still haven't asked peoples questions.. even as simple as.. Is the dog good with children etc.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Many of you have a lot of experience with rescues so can easily spot alarming things that the "average joe" dog owner maybe wouldn't notice..

I have no experience with rescue at all, and I'm very much your "average joe" owner, and I still found the comment "are you mad enough to have a go" extremely unprofessional. I appreciate they may be trying to inject some humour into their posts, but "humour" like that is very inappropriate when talking about rehoming an animal. Especially an animal with such a dreadful background like Paisley. It's certainly not promoting responsible ownership which should be at the forefront of any animal rescue organisation.

They said they've provided very little information about Paisley as they want to engage people.. but yet don't answer any questions about her. What issues does she have that need rehabilitating? What has her rehab involved? What progress has she made? Is she good with children and other dogs? They're all reasonable questions, yet I haven't seen any of them being answered. I get the impression that they're flouncing around a lot of questions as they don't have the answers to them. If they had the answers, they wouldn't need to get defensive. They'd be proud to explain the progress they'd made. Of course it's just my impression, but it seems they don't actually know much about Paisley at all. She's hyper, they don't know how to handle her, so stuck her in "rehab" where they willingly let her bomb about like a nutcase and get herself hyped up before breakfast.

They haven't really explained why they won't return her to the breeder either, apart from the excuse that he made a mistake and sold to her to an inappropriate home. Surely that's exactly the same mistake this rescue made when they put a poorly socialised 7 month old pup with signs of DA into a foster home with other dogs. A home which had no experience with WL GSD's. They were aware of her issues before putting her into that foster home, so for me, that's a much bigger mistake to make than a breeder being duped.

Of course it's possible that they may well be a fantastic rescue doing wonderful work. None of us have been there and seen what goes on behind closed doors.. but opinions can only be formed on the information given. From the bits that they're allowing the public to see, and the effort they're publicly making to rehome Paisley, they don't seem to be doing enough.

That's just my opinion as an average joe looking at their fb page.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> I just think their response was very poor and they still haven't asked peoples questions.. even as simple as.. Is the dog good with children etc.


Fair comment but I still wouldn't judge the actual rescue as "poorly run" on that basis. Like I said earlier on that day when their facebook page was suddenly getting all these new people pop up asking lots of questions and telling them what they should and shouldn't be doing they were no doubt rattled and decided not to answer.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Many of you have a lot of experience with rescues so can easily spot alarming things that the "average joe" dog owner maybe wouldn't notice..
> 
> I have no experience with rescue at all, and I'm very much your "average joe" owner, and I still found the comment "are you mad enough to have a go" extremely unprofessional. I appreciate they may be trying to inject some humour into their posts, but "humour" like that is very inappropriate when talking about rehoming an animal. Especially an animal with such a dreadful background like Paisley. It's certainly not promoting responsible ownership which should be at the forefront of any animal rescue organisation.
> 
> ...


I can only repeat what I said to @Hanwombat - I wouldn't answer questions either if I felt under the sort of attack they must have felt. When you give your life and sole to doing something you feel passionately about its absolutely heart breaking to have people who have never met you, never visited your facilities etc slate you. A very similar thing happened with Many Tears a few years ago - some people disagreed strongly with them bringing dogs over from Ireland and bombarded other forums with threads and criticisms of them which really demoralised the owners. Everyone these days is an arm chair expert and thinks they can do better but very few have the commitment to actually do it, or to volunteer or even take on a rescue dog for that matter. How many threads on here do we see where people ask for advice but get really really defensive about criticisms and say thanks but no thanks, I will rely on the opinions of people who have actually met my dog and not strangers from the internet.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I can understand that they might have been annoyed by some of the comments, but ultimately it's because everyone just wants Paisley to be happy, and it's a really frustrating situation.
Their reply was incredibly unprofessional and should not have been written while they were angry - I've had to write some really calm emails in the past, when really I just wanted to let rip at the person. 
Taking their anger out on and punishing the other dog by not putting his story up was childish and pointless.

Paisley doesn't need her advert to be 'funny', she should have been groomed properly & had some nice photos taken, with a serious and detailed write up about her needs.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Gemmaa said:


> I can understand that they might have been annoyed by some of the comments, but ultimately it's because everyone just wants Paisley to be happy, and it's a really frustrating situation.
> Their reply was incredibly unprofessional and should not have been written while they were angry - I've had to write some really calm emails in the past, when really I just wanted to let rip at the person.
> Taking their anger out on and punishing the other dog by not putting his story up was childish and pointless.
> 
> Paisley doesn't need her advert to be 'funny', she should have been groomed properly & had some nice photos taken, with a serious and detailed write up about her needs.


So are you saying the rescue don't want Paisley to be happy? I'm sure they could do without the hassle they are getting at the moment to be sure. Not sure how not putting the other dog's story up was punishing it, the dog doesn't know its story was going to be put up and is none the wiser. I don't think its fair to suggest they took their anger out on the other dog  This is a rescue run by volunteers so hell I'm not going to beat them up for not grooming every dog to perfection, I know sometimes with my own dogs I suddenly notice Indie has tufts and give her a good groom but no doubt someone noticed us on a walk and tut tutted about my dog not being perfectly groomed. Seriously guys, how many of us actually volunteer at rescues and go and help groom their dogs on a regular basis? I don't, not these days anyway as I have other demands on my time so I sure as hell won't slate a rescue because their dogs need a brush, because they also need lots of other care too. So please out of interest can we hear what all these critics do on a regular basis to help their local rescue.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So are you saying the rescue don't want Paisley to be happy? I'm sure they could do without the hassle they are getting at the moment to be sure. Not sure how not putting the other dog's story up was punishing it, the dog doesn't know its story was going to be put up and is none the wiser. I don't think its fair to suggest they took their anger out on the other dog  This is a rescue run by volunteers so hell I'm not going to beat them up for not grooming every dog to perfection, I know sometimes with my own dogs I suddenly notice Indie has tufts and give her a good groom but no doubt someone noticed us on a walk and tut tutted about my dog not being perfectly groomed. Seriously guys, how many of us actually volunteer at rescues and go and help groom their dogs on a regular basis? I don't, not these days anyway as I have other demands on my time so I sure as hell won't slate a rescue because their dogs need a brush, because they also need lots of other care too. So please out of interest can we hear what all these critics do on a regular basis to help their local rescue.


I'm not saying the rescue don't want her to be happy - I mean comments might get heated because people who know her story and care about her, are getting frustrated that she is STILL in a kennel.

What other point was there in not putting his case up? He has nothing to do with Paisley, and if his story was supposed to go up, it should have gone up. It was childish.

I don't expect all dogs to be groomed to perfection all the time, but if I was putting a dog up for rehoming I would have made sure the dog looked its best - good grooming can and has helped dogs get rehomed.

I'm not slating the rescue and I haven't commented on their FB page, I'm sure they do a good job normally, but they definitely could have handled this better.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

[QUOTE="rottiepointerhouse, post: 1064562833, member: 1409383" So please out of interest can we hear what all these critics do on a regular basis to help their local rescue.[/QUOTE]

I donate money monthly to my local rescue, I walk dogs for them and donate blankets, high-quality food, wormers and flea products to them.

When they do a charity event I take on of my own mobile catering units down and allow them to have a third of the profits for that particular day. I've written articles for them etc.

At Christmas, my online business donates a third of all profits from anything sold.

Just because I don't shout about it doesn't mean I don't do it . I'm a dog lover, I love all dogs. I'll try my hardest to help any that are need of it.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Gemmaa said:


> I'm not saying the rescue don't want her to be happy - I mean comments might get heated because people who know her story and care about her, are getting frustrated that she is STILL in a kennel.
> 
> What other point was there in not putting his case up? He has nothing to do with Paisley, and if his story was supposed to go up, it should have gone up. It was childish.
> 
> ...


I'm sure the rescue get upset and frustrated that she is STILL in a kennel too though but lets face it there are not many experienced/suitable homes for a WL GSD out there. I agree going back to her breeder would "appear" to be the best solution but can only repeat that none of us really know the reasons why the rescue don't feel that is appropriate.

Why is it childish not to put a story about a dog on a facebook page? Again I would say they are probably feeling very hurt and vulnerable at the moment and perhaps they just didn't want to lay themselves open to more criticism and questions. From their supporters comments it would appear their facebook page is usually a nice friendly place so they are not used to this type of scrutiny and doubting.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> [QUOTE="rottiepointerhouse, post: 1064562833, member: 1409383" So please out of interest can we hear what all these critics do on a regular basis to help their local rescue.


*
I donate money monthly to my local rescue, I walk dogs for them and donate blankets, high-quality food, wormers and flea products to them.

When they do a charity event I take on of my own mobile catering units down and allow them to have a third of the profits for that particular day. I've written articles for them etc.

At Christmas, my online business donates a third of all profits from anything sold.

Just because I don't shout about it doesn't mean I don't do it . I'm a dog lover, I love all dogs. I'll try my hardest to help any that are need of it*.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant. Good on you and keep up the good work, I'm sure your local rescue appreciate it. Now just suppose that rescue who presumably you admire/trust were coming under the sort of attack this one is from people who have never been anywhere near it.

ETA the quotes have gone a bit wrong so I've put the answer from @Pappychi in bold.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> *I donate money monthly to my local rescue, I walk dogs for them and donate blankets, high-quality food, wormers and flea products to them.
> 
> When they do a charity event I take on of my own mobile catering units down and allow them to have a third of the profits for that particular day. I've written articles for them etc.
> 
> ...


Brilliant. Good on you and keep up the good work, I'm sure your local rescue appreciate it. Now just suppose that rescue who presumably you admire/trust were coming under the sort of attack this one is from people who have never been anywhere near it.

ETA the quotes have gone a bit wrong so I've put the answer from @Pappychi in bold.[/QUOTE]

You did quote me according to my notifications .

I have seen them come under fire before from someone. They've always responded in a calm and professional manner. The owner has a background in hospitality so maybe that's where it comes from.

I loathe to say it but in this day and age your internet behaviour/persona really can make or break you, whether you're a rescue, breeder or a baby clothes maker. Sometimes, and I know it's difficult, it's best to step back. Count to 3 and then have a go at making your point.

Emotions run high I agree but sometimes logic has to overrun passion in cases like this.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I haven't seen much slating of the rescue, just genuine questions about what her problems are that has required her to be in "rehabilitation" for a year. Many of us HAVE shared her information despite the fact they have very sketchy about her 'problems'. They've had her for a year, so her 'issues' (or lack of them!) should be totally transparent now. Their descriptions tell you nothing, and in Paisley's case do not exactly sell her. Their website hasn't been updated since she came into rescue and I cannot find information about Paisley anywhere else (bar this recent FB post), so how could she possibly find a home when she is not being advertised?

This is NOT about the rescue, it's about the dog, and doing what is in HER best interests. I don't see how anyone can argue that it is in her best interests to be kennelled in 'rehab', with people who self confessed do not have anyone suitable to foster this type of dog or train it.

I do get their stance with not wanting to give the dog back to the breeder in this case, but the stud dog owner who are very well respected trainers/breeders, WAS an option, and should have been taken up. Now they DO have the resources and contacts to find a dog from their breeding an appropriately experienced home, unlike this rescue. In this case the rescue were misguided, and had they done what was best for the dog in this instance, we would not be having this conversation now.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> I haven't seen much slating of the rescue, just genuine questions about what her problems are that has required her to be in "rehabilitation" for a year. Many of us HAVE shared her information despite the fact they have very sketchy about her 'problems'. They've had her for a year, so her 'issues' (or lack of them!) should be totally transparent now. Their descriptions tell you nothing, and in Paisley's case do not exactly sell her. Their website hasn't been updated since she came into rescue and I cannot find information about Paisley anywhere else (bar this recent FB post), so how could she possibly find a home when she is not being advertised?
> 
> This is NOT about the rescue, it's about the dog, and doing what is in HER best interests. I don't see how anyone can argue that it is in her best interests to be kennelled in 'rehab', with people who self confessed do not have anyone suitable to foster this type of dog or train it.
> 
> I do get their stance with not wanting to give the dog back to the breeder in this case, but the stud dog owner who are very well respected trainers/breeders, WAS an option, and should have been taken up. Now they DO have the resources and contacts to find a dog from their breeding an appropriately experienced home, unlike this rescue. In this case the rescue were misguided, and had they done what was best for the dog in this instance, we would not be having this conversation now.


There has been a lot of slating of the rescue on this thread. Not all rescues find homes through advertising or through the internet, some, particularly smaller ones prefer to home via contacts/networking. Whilst these days the majority do use social media I personally don't see why they have to. Its up to each individual rescue to decide how they go about finding homes for the dogs in their care.

I agree this should be about Paisley and not about the rescue and I've sat on my hands and let many of the comments about the rescue go unchallenged but I felt it had got out of hand and could hold my tongue no longer  I still wonder why if the breeder and the stud dog owner have so many contacts and could find her a suitable home then why don't they and ask that person to apply for Paisley via the rescue. It seems like poor Paisley is a bit caught up in the middle of all of this. Also we don't actually "know" that the breeder or the stud dog owner would have successfully placed her in a decent home by now do we, we might hope so and think it likely but we don't actually know they would have done any better at finding the elusive suitable home.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There has been a lot of slating of the rescue on this thread. Not all rescues find homes through advertising or through the internet, some, particularly smaller ones prefer to home via contacts/networking. Whilst these days the majority do use social media I personally don't see why they have to. Its up to each individual rescue to decide how they go about finding homes for the dogs in their care.
> 
> I agree this should be about Paisley and not about the rescue and I've sat on my hands and let many of the comments about the rescue go unchallenged but I felt it had got out of hand and could hold my tongue no longer  I still wonder why if the breeder and the stud dog owner have so many contacts and could find her a suitable home then why don't they and ask that person to apply for Paisley via the rescue. It seems like poor Paisley is a bit caught up in the middle of all of this.* Also we don't actually "know" that the breeder or the stud dog owner would have successfully placed her in a decent home by now do we, we might hope so and think it likely but we don't actually know they would have done any better at finding the elusive suitable home*.


No we don't 'know', but logically they are going to be a far better contacted in the world of dogs from this sort of breeding, which stacks the odds far greater in their favour (the stud dog owner I'm talking about, I don't know enough about the breeder to make that assumption). The rescue said they do not have the resources to work with this dog effectively as the fosterer was totally out dogged, and the pieces are clearly not fitting together with her 'rehabilitation' if she is still described as the mad one that no one wants. This dog has really been failed on all sides, because the longer she is out of a home/'real world' environment vs the 'rehab' kennels she's in, the harder it is going to be for her to adjust back to a pet home.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

[QUOTE="labradrk, post: 1064562902, member: 1350973" *This dog has really been failed on all sides*,[/QUOTE]

I think we can all agree on that .

What I would say though is that whilst BigMomma definitely failed her (past tense), others are still failing her.

The thing is, this bitch isn't dead, she isn't 'impossible'. She's just stuck in the middle. So everyone still has the opportunity to do right by her, there is still a chance to put this right.

I'm going to quote Dumbledore because I am the Harry Potter generation 

"Help will always be given to those who ask for it"*

*I omitted Hogwarts because it wouldn't fit otherwise. 

There is nothing wrong with sticking in your hands in the air and going 'this is too much. We need help'. To be honest, I would have thought so highly of them if they did. There is no shame in asking for help, none at all. You might get the odd d*ck head opinion but I would like imagine a large majority would have offered their help .


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> No we don't 'know', but logically they are going to be a far better contacted in the world of dogs from this sort of breeding, which stacks the odds far greater in their favour (the stud dog owner I'm talking about, I don't know enough about the breeder to make that assumption). The rescue said they do not have the resources to work with this dog effectively as the fosterer was totally out dogged, and the pieces are clearly not fitting together with her 'rehabilitation' if she is still described as the mad one that no one wants. This dog has really been failed on all sides, because the longer she is out of a home/'real world' environment vs the 'rehab' kennels she's in, the harder it is going to be for her to adjust back to a pet home.


So why not use those contacts to find her a home anyway. Why does she have to be "with them" for them to find her a home? I just wish everyone would stop slating everyone else and work together to try and find Paisley a home. I don't happen to believe demoralizing and undermining the rescue is the way to do that, I agree with @Pappychi that is would be great if the rescue would swallow their pride and ask for help but also it would be great if the "other side" stopped picking fault in everything and perhaps offered an olive branch to the rescue with some concrete offers to help work together to find her a home.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

The comments on this thread are mostly members venting frustration. We do that on this forum all. the. time. We vent about irresponsible dog owners, we vent about shitty breeders, we vent about abusive trainers. I'm not sure why just because an organization is a rescue, they should get a pass from scrutiny or PF venting for that matter.

And to be fair, the comments made to the rescue on their FB page were all very measured and polite. Nobody from PF was rude, or even unfair. The rude comments all came from either the rescue or rescue supporters (which I know the rescue has no control over).

A couple months ago, my trainer received a very negative review on her business FB page. The reviewer was accusing her of things I happen to know are patently untrue. 
My trainer didn't respond to the accusations, instead congratulated the poster on her success with her dog, told her she was glad she had found a trainer to work with, and wished her the best. 
The point is, my trainer didn't need to negate anything, her work and the success her students speaks for itself 

BTW, this just popped up on the EGSR FB page as I was typing:
EGSR Rehab Page Anne Warren , please share where you get your info, as mine is straight from the horses mouth - Paisleys owner had NEVER actually had a dog before, so if a breeder, who could have refused to sell, still sold a working line Shep to an inexperienced home, living in a flat, can you honestly tell me the breeder was thinking about what was best for his pup or what was best for his pocket!!!!!
As I saw in another comment, would he still want her back once neutered?????

Make of that what you will.....


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So why not use those contacts to find her a home anyway. * Why does she have to be "with them" for them to find her a home? * I just wish everyone would stop slating everyone else and work together to try and find Paisley a home. I don't happen to believe demoralizing and undermining the rescue is the way to do that, I agree with @Pappychi that is would be great if the rescue would swallow their pride and ask for help but also it would be great if the "other side" stopped picking fault in everything and perhaps offered an olive branch to the rescue with some concrete offers to help work together to find her a home.


I imagine to assess the dog themselves to get a proper idea of her character, drive, her strengths/weaknesses etc, in order to place her in a correct home, rather than taking the rescues word for everything given their limited experience with this type of dog.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> The comments on this thread are mostly members venting frustration. We do that on this forum all. the. time. We vent about irresponsible dog owners, we vent about shitty breeders, we vent about abusive trainers. *I'm not sure why just because an organization is a rescue, they should get a pass from scrutiny or PF venting for that matter. *


That is a valid point. Like you said yourself previously there is a scale of 'ethics' in all areas of the dog world from rescues to breeders, owners, and trainers. We've discussed breeders, owners and trainers so it will be interesting to discuss the varying levels of ethics in the rescue world .


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Sadly, their recent response to my comment just proves that they're utterly useless and don't have an ounce of credibility. 

Sad really.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@Lauren5159

.

Hmm.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There has been a lot of slating of the rescue on this thread. Not all rescues find homes through advertising or through the internet, some, particularly smaller ones prefer to home via contacts/networking. Whilst these days the majority do use social media I personally don't see why they have to. Its up to each individual rescue to decide how they go about finding homes for the dogs in their care.
> 
> I agree this should be about Paisley and not about the rescue and I've sat on my hands and let many of the comments about the rescue go unchallenged but I felt it had got out of hand and could hold my tongue no longer  I still wonder why if the breeder and the stud dog owner have so many contacts and could find her a suitable home then why don't they and ask that person to apply for Paisley via the rescue. It seems like poor Paisley is a bit caught up in the middle of all of this. Also we don't actually "know" that the breeder or the stud dog owner would have successfully placed her in a decent home by now do we, we might hope so and think it likely but we don't actually know they would have done any better at finding the elusive suitable home.


Knowing the stud dog owner personally and knowing her dogs and the contacts she has, I am very confident Paisley would have found a new home - and even more especially as Paisley was just 7 months when she was surrendered.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The rescues response to @Lauren5159 is very unprofessional and makes me think even more now that they're incapable of rehabilitating a mushroom, let alone a dog.

Also, them basically making fun of Lauren's ability to calculate how long Paisley has been in rescue is very stupid and disgraceful as for all they know Lauren may have a learning disability or something.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Bigmomma appears to have just deleted the explanation post?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/explanation-and-all-details-in-full.398199/#post-1064153167
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/explanation-and-all-details-in-full.398199/#post-1064153167


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> The comments on this thread are mostly members venting frustration. We do that on this forum all. the. time. We vent about irresponsible dog owners, we vent about shitty breeders, we vent about abusive trainers. I'm not sure why just because an organization is a rescue, they should get a pass from scrutiny or PF venting for that matter.
> 
> And to be fair, the comments made to the rescue on their FB page were all very measured and polite. Nobody from PF was rude, or even unfair. The rude comments all came from either the rescue or rescue supporters (which I know the rescue has no control over).
> 
> ...


Exactly, the only rude responses made were from those of the 'supporters' of the rescue. Fing and blinding and calling those of us asking for more details as inexperienced busy bodies 

As already stated we're perfectly entitled to air our frustrations and opinions about the whole situation, and just because they're a rescue does not automatically make them decent. I'm sure they do the best they can, and I've never disputed that, but whether that's with the dog's best interest at heart, who knows.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> The rescues response to @Lauren5159 is very unprofessional and makes me think even more now *that they're incapable of rehabilitating a mushroom*, let alone a dog..


That made me LOL :Hilarious.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Gemmaa said:


> Bigmomma appears to have just deleted the explanation post?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/explanation-and-all-details-in-full.398199/#post-1064153167


How odd


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> Bigmomma appears to have just deleted the explanation post?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/explanation-and-all-details-in-full.398199/#post-1064153167


She's lurking?


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> How odd





Dogloverlou said:


> She's lurking?


She's deleting all her posts


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> Bigmomma appears to have just deleted the explanation post?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/explanation-and-all-details-in-full.398199/#post-1064153167
> 
> ETA: All her posts are going.


Is she on the rescues facebook or something as @labradrk posted a link to that page with regards to the husky she rehomed and now its strange that its all being deleted.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Hanwombat said:


> Is she on the rescues facebook or something as @labradrk posted a link to that page with regards to the husky she rehomed and now its strange that its all being deleted.


She must be...I did read a comment on there that sounded like it might be her. It was very defensive.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> She must be...I did read a comment on there that sounded like it might be her. It was very defensive.


Was it really? I probably not noticed


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Gemmaa said:


> She's deleting all her posts


I guess because it was linked to on the FB page......

Wonder how she feels knowing Paisley has been in kennels all this time when she so adamant that's not what she wanted.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Gemmaa said:


> She's deleting all her posts


They'll all be on Google cache. I wouldn't worry. Nothing is ever truly deleted from the internet


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Yes that has just been deleted, as are all her other posts. Took a screen shot anyway


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Moobli said:


> Knowing the stud dog owner personally and knowing her dogs and the contacts she has, I am very confident Paisley would have found a new home - and even more especially as Paisley was just 7 months when she was surrendered.


Whether it's true or not, but the rescue said they have never heard from the stud dog owner, only the breeder.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> I guess because it was linked to on the FB page......
> 
> Wonder how she feels knowing Paisley has been in kennels all this time when she so adamant that's not what she wanted.


I wonder also - I presume she is probably reading this very thread also.

I would feel pretty ashamed knowing that a dog I'd rehomed had been in 'rehab' for so long.. when the dog could have went back to the breeder or stud dog owner and most likely be thriving now.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

She's clearly watching this thread and/or the FB one. I wonder how she feels knowing that Paisley has been in rescue ever since she was relinquished


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I personally feel that threads should not be allowed to be deleted once they are established on the forum. Perhaps the admin need to look into letting people delete/edit their posts for a short period - say an hour or two - but they should be prevented from deleting after that.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

OK I'm out of this thread now - its turning into a witch hunt  

and we call them childish but find this funny  - sorry remind me how many dogs you have rehabilitated 

they're incapable of rehabilitating a mushroom, let alone a dog.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK I'm out of this thread now - its turning into a witch hunt
> 
> and we call them childish but find this funny  - sorry remind me how many dogs you have rehabilitated
> 
> they're incapable of rehabilitating a mushroom, let alone a dog.


I stand by what I said and you haven't seen their childish unprofessional response to Lauren over facebook - no one on facebook from this forum are acting childish or nasty towards them.. we just want answers and their choice of words is pathetic IMO.

No, I haven't, but some of those dogs have been there 2 year or more... what rehab are they actually doing as it appears to be an extremely slow process.. and the fact they won't even give details of Paisleys rehab makes me wonder what they're actually doing.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> I stand by what I said and you haven't seen their childish unprofessional response to Lauren over facebook - no one on facebook from this forum are acting childish or nasty towards them.. we just want answers and their choice of words is pathetic IMO.
> 
> No, I haven't, but some of those dogs have been there 2 year or more... what rehab are they actually doing as it appears to be an extremely slow process.. and the fact they won't even give details of Paisleys rehab makes me wonder what they're actually doing.


You are quite entitled to wonder and you are quite entitled to ask questions but they are equally entitled not to answer. If you personally haven't rehabilitated a dog before and you personally haven't visited the rescue then why do you keep making such spiteful comments about them?


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

Well...
It seems both @BigMomma and the rescue is now reading this thread.

Good.

To the Damon or Mel (or both, or whoever is reading) - I hope you read from this thread how many people are willing to help Paisley and how many different options you have for best serving her needs. Please consider returning her to either the stud dog owner or the breeder. That is really her best hope.

To @BigMomma I see yet again your concern is not for the dog but for covering your own ass. Shame on you.
The only redeeming thing you could do at this point is to attempt to right any untruths you might have told the rescue about the breeder that would make them hesitate to return Paisley. Instead of taking the time to delete all your posts, please take a moment to clarify to the rescue anything you might have said that is not true about her situation and her breeder, and encourage them to return her also. I really think that is in her best interest at this point.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You are quite entitled to wonder and you are quite entitled to ask questions but they are equally entitled not to answer. If you personally haven't rehabilitated a dog before and you personally haven't visited the rescue then why do you keep making such spiteful comments about them?


And there in lies the question that isn't getting answered......what exactly IS Paisley being rehabilitated from?! This is what nobody knows. What behaviour could be so dreadful from a dog that was relinquished at 7 months of age, physically and mentally very much still a puppy, and not crapply bred so decent genetic potential, that has thus so far required a year of rehabilitation?


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I've just seen another post where Bigmomma said she was planning on doing IPO with Paisley, along with agility and having the help of her dad - a former police dog handler. So she lied to the breeder on a fairly huge scale, and now his name is getting dragged through the mud.

It's not a witch hunt, it's a truth hunt.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

If the rescue are reading this thread then I sincerely apologise for the unpleasant and unnecessary insults that have been thrown at you.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> If the rescue are reading this thread then I sincerely apologise for the unpleasant and unnecessary insults that have been thrown at you.


Why are you apologizing? You didn't insult anyone?

If the rescue has nothing to be defensive about, it's water off a duck's back.

More important now, is for the rescue to get *truthful* information about Paisley and her breeder and use that information to make the best decision for her.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Gemmaa said:


> I've just seen another post where Bigmomma said she was planning on doing IPO with Paisley, along with agility and having the help of her dad - a former police dog handler. So she lied to the breeder on a fairly huge scale, and now his name is getting dragged through the mud.
> 
> It's not a witch hunt, it's a truth hunt.


But none of us know what the truth is so why don't we just let the rescues who are the current legal owners of the dog sort out what they think is best for her. We can all quote what we've read in previous posts but we don't actually know what is true and what isn't. The only thing certain is Paisley needs a home but it needs to be the right home.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Why are you apologizing? You didn't insult anyone?
> 
> If the rescue has nothing to be defensive about, it's water off a duck's back.
> 
> More important now, is for the rescue to get *truthful* information about Paisley and her breeder and use that information to make the best decision for her.


No I know I didn't but I know how hurtful and demoralised they will probably be by those comments so I am apologising for them. Some may well have been justified but it got way out of hand and spiteful.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No I know I didn't but I know how hurtful and demoralised they will probably be by those comments so I am apologising for them. Some may well have been justified but it got way out of hand and spiteful.


Are you going to apologize to the breeder and stud dog owner as well who have to sit and watch their reputation sullied by a rescue, and worse watch a dog that they clearly care about sitting in kennels for nearly a year?

I know you mean well RPH, but it's more than a little insulting to apologize for someone else - you're speaking for someone who didn't ask you to speak for them.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Are you going to apologize to the breeder and stud dog owner as well who have to sit and watch their reputation sullied by a rescue, and worse watch a dog that they clearly care about sitting in kennels for nearly a year?
> 
> I know you mean well RPH, but it's more than a little insulting to apologize for someone else - you're speaking for someone who didn't ask you to speak for them.


No I'm speaking for myself and how I feel about the way this thread has gone. If the breeder and stud dog owner want to join in then I will apologise to them too if anyone on this thread has been spiteful about them although I don't recall that they have.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No I'm speaking for myself and how I feel about the way this thread has gone. If the breeder and stud dog owner want to join in then I will apologise to them too if anyone on this thread has been spiteful about them although I don't recall that they have.


Apart from the fact the breeder has been the only one taking a bashing on their FB page.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Apart from the fact the breeder has been the only one taking a bashing on their FB page.


I'm not apologising for the facebook page, I'm not on facebook, I apologised for the comments on this thread.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not apologising for the facebook page, I'm not on facebook, I apologised for the comments on this thread.


Don't. I'm sorry, but there's no need to apologise on my, or anyone else's behalf.

I don't apologise. End of.

So please don't speak for me.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> Don't. I'm sorry, but there's no need to apologise on my, or anyone else's behalf.
> 
> I don't apologise. End of.
> 
> So please don't speak for me.


I'm not speaking for you - I'm apologising because I feel someone needs to. You can say what you want to and so can I. You don't apologise and I do. End of.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm not sure what is being gained by the recent posts here, except to vent frustration against someone/something on facebook and the OP neither of which are likely to respond to be honest. I don't want to close this but don't make your differences of opinion personal.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not speaking for you - I'm apologising because I feel someone needs to. You can say what you want to and so can I. You don't apologise and I do. End of.


You're apologising for us. No need. We don't apologise for anything we've said in this thread.

You can interpret our posts however you want but there's no need to patronise us all. You aren't on Facebook and therefore you haven't seen how they've spoken to me or anyone else. If you don't like the thread, stop commenting on it. Unfollow it.

We're not doing anything wrong.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

If the rescue are reading this I would like to say. 

Can we please keep our egos in check? We are human and things can sting. I'm sure everyone involved is just wanting what is best by that poor bitch. 

Let's stop drawing battle lines in the sand and pull together to find this girl a suitable home. 

It should not be rescue vs breeders. It should be ethical breeders and rescues vs the puppy farmers, the BYB and the irresponsible owners. 

If we don't put on a united front how else are we gonna make the dog world a better place?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> You're apologising for us. No need. We don't apologise for anything we've said in this thread.
> 
> You can interpret our posts however you want but there's no need to patronise us all. You aren't on Facebook and therefore you haven't seen how they've spoken to me or anyone else. If you don't like the thread, stop commenting on it. Unfollow it.
> 
> We're not doing anything wrong.


I have read the posts on facebook thank you following the link on this thread and as I've already said it isn't the comments on facebook that make me feel the need to apologise but the ones on this thread some of which are made by people with zero experience of dogs like Paisley and zero experience of running a rescue but plenty of experience of reading articles on the internet.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Keep on topic please folks, I want to see this thread left open for informations sakes, not have it shut it deleted.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes, to avoid the thread being closed, think we just need to agree to disagree on certain things being said and leave it be for the time being. Regardless of what any of us say it likely won't find Paisley a home any faster


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

I can see both sides here

The thing to pick up on - no has said that the rescue is out right failing all the dogs (although yes there are some questions about some of them) just in this instance Paisley.

Everyone agrees there has to be some where better for Paisley to be

No one apart from the rescue has claimed to be able to rehabilitate dogs, only asked why it's taking so long and what the rehabilitation is.

I think the best we can all do is hope for the best possible and right outcome for Paisley.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm gonna say it again @Rach&Miko

#preach .


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

I do have to agree with @rottiepointerhouse. None of us know anything about this story other than what her original owner posted on here yet even then that may not be true. The rescue said returning her to her breeder was looked into but is no longer an option. I'm not saying there is but perhaps upon visiting the breeder they realized it is not in her best interests to be returned for whatever reason and do not want to share it publicly on facebook. 
I agree some of the their remarks and things they have posted are quite immature and distasteful but I am sure, as a rescue, they have Paisley's best interests at heart. They obviously love the breed.
The fact some of their dogs have been in rescue for a while, in my opinion, does not mean they are a bad rescue. As somebody who follows a lot of rescue pages and sites, it is not uncommon for dogs to be in rescue for a long time, especially dogs with issues or dogs not deemed 'pretty' enough.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

XemzX said:


> I do have to agree with @rottiepointerhouse. None of us know anything about this story other than what her original owner posted on here yet even then that may not be true. The rescue said returning her to her breeder was looked into but is no longer an option. I'm not saying there is but perhaps upon visiting the breeder they realized it is not in her best interests to be returned for whatever reason and do not want to share it publicly on facebook.
> I agree some of the their remarks and things they have posted are quite immature and distasteful but I am sure, as a rescue, they have Paisley's best interests at heart. They obviously love the breed.
> The fact some of their dogs have been in rescue for a while, in my opinion, does not mean they are a bad rescue. As somebody who follows a lot of rescue pages and sites, it is not uncommon for dogs to be in rescue for a long time, especially dogs with issues or dogs not deemed 'pretty' enough.


They have never visited the breeder and, as far as I am aware, have only spoken to him once. His phone calls and emails were ignored.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

XemzX said:


> None of us know anything about this story other than what her original owner posted on here


Actually, several people posting know a good bit more than that as they know the people involved or know friends of the people involved. The dog world is very small. The WL GSD dog world even smaller.


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Actually, several people posting know a good bit more than that as they know the people involved or know friends of the people involved. The dog world is very small. The WL GSD dog world even smaller.


That may be the case but do any of us know Paisely as an individual? I'm aware some members have Paisleys relative's and know the breeders/stud dog owners, etc but we dont know Paisley as far as I'm aware but I'm happy to be corrected.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

XemzX said:


> That may be the case but do any of us know Paisely as an individual? I'm aware some members have Paisleys relative's and know the breeders/stud dog owners, etc but we dont know Paisley as far as I'm aware but I'm happy to be corrected.


Why would that matter as far as returning Paisley to her breeder or stud dog owner?


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Why would that matter as far as returning Paisley to her breeder or stud dog owner?


I thought when you said that a few members were involved I thought you meant with Paisely herself I see now you mean involved with the breeder/stud owner. 
Although (just a genuine question here) If Paisley does have some behavioral issues, will the breeder be equipped to deal with them? Perhaps that is why the rescue wont release her to the breeder? Just a thought


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

XemzX said:


> I thought when you said that a few members were involved I thought you meant with Paisely herself I see now you mean involved with the breeder/stud owner.
> Although (just a genuine question here) If Paisley does have some behavioral issues, will the breeder be equipped to deal with them? Perhaps that is why the rescue wont release her to the breeder? Just a thought


IMO the breeder is more equipped to deal with any issues she might have than the rescue.


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I agree with others our rescue has been on the receiving end of Internet slatings by people who think we don't have the dogs best interests at heart and its all about our egos because we don't agree with them. Sometimes it's hard to stay calm when people are questioning you.

We have dogs In rescue for a long time who have come on leaps and bounds but homes are not forth coming for them.

We have been called the c word when a dog had to be put to sleep we have had supporters of a breed rescue plan to come and steal a dog because we wouldn't release a dog to them . Alot of these people are fully of advice of how things should be done or how they would love to help but when called on it disappear.

We don't put everything about everything into the public domain it's not professional to.. much as every one wants to know more they don't have to answer to a bunch of people on an Internet forum.

As a rescue you don't keep a dog sat in kennels for a year because of ego.

I don't know the rescue nor the breeder but the original owners and rescue must have good reason not to want her to go back.

I hope that any genuine offers of help reach the rescue and she can get on her way to a new home or additional help if it's needed. It seems there is some confusion re the stud dogs contact with rescue in all this? I do agree that as a rescue though should seek help if needed if outside your range of experience to help rehab and rehome


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

What is slating rescues and people's decisions going to do?
BigMomma has already made the decision and that is something we cannot change, although right now it may not look like it, one day, this decision will benefit Paisley and she will go to a more capable home.

Maybe the rescue does not have the best behaviourists, however, I think we ought to be supporting rescues rather than slagging them off. Maybe they don't have the funds. Maybe things are really stressful. By the looks of it they are a small, local rescue and many of these rescues rely on so much to keep their work going.
Yes, they are questionable and they don't provide the best service but at least they do mention that Paisley is bright, energetic and needs some TLC and maybe they are waiting for that very special home. Maybe the police are really interested in her and the police need the rescue to work with her a little more and advertised her as a back up plan. Maybe they didn't let the breeder have her because they believed she'd suit Police work. I don't know. As do many of us.

Then I go and see Facebook....

I have to sympathise, they are trying to help Paisley, their rehab program may be crap and they may be bad for a breed rescue, but they do want to give her a shot at life.

I have to say... breeders can be duped very easily, so the excuses they used as to why they won't even let Paisley's breeder help find her a home cannot really be used.

I do agree that they are totally unprofessional when responding to others. We all have one thing in common - we want the best for Paisley and many seem to be blind to that.

They indirectly branded a couple of members on here trolls and their response to @Lauren5159 was not only unprofessional - it was rude!
Then...
I haven't seen many rescues who upload videos of the dogs they have of which really shows what the dog is like, showing both the good and the bad.
There are pros and cons to everything. 
There needs to be some form of peace making here. It's not fair on Paisley.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2016)

EmCHammer said:


> I don't know the rescue nor the breeder but the original owners and rescue must have good reason not to want her to go back.


The original owner lied to get the dog, lied to us about, lied to the breeder about how things were going, lied to the rescue and said she had never owned a dog.... Forgive me if I don't believe that she had good reason not to want the dog to go back to the breeder.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

.


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I've kept quiet till now. This rescue has had one offer (that I know of) of a home that would be excellent for her. And also one offer of an excellent foster whilst they find her a home. And this rescue has turned down the latter because it is "out of their rehome" area. What the actual!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

SLB said:


> I've kept quiet till now. This rescue has had one offer (that I know of) of a home that would be excellent for her. And also one offer of an excellent foster whilst they find her a home. And this rescue has turned down the latter because it is "out of their rehome" area. What the actual!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I was on the FB page earlier and did notice the offer of a foster home from someone. 

I'm gobsmacked they turned her down


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Ah I assume the PF member who has similar breeds wasn't successful then? (Sorry can't remember name!) 

What a shame for Paisley


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Personally I think they were pretty damn stupid turning her down. But I know a few rescues who won't let dogs go out of the area. Would have thought a good home is a good home regardless of whether you live within a certain number of miles from the rescue to be honest.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I am not getting involved in this as it just breaks my heart. I do hope that Bigmomma can for once in her life grow a set and do right by this poor bitch and contact the rescue and give them the true story, getting Paisley was a mistake, do not let this poor bitches life be destroyed by your mistakes. Tell the rescue the truth and help them get her in to a Home. To the rescue please take a deep breath and try understand the frustration of those who tried to help Paisley from day one who were so upset to find her in rescue and to still find her there you haven't been told the truth but again Paisley should not pay the price for that for the rest of her life she is where she is because of untruths...


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> Personally I think they were pretty damn stupid turning her down. But I know a few rescues who won't let dogs go out of the area. Would have thought a good home is a good home regardless of whether you live within a certain number of miles from the rescue to be honest.


Cannot agree more...
As a browser of rescues...because I cannot help looking...
I often see rescues, who have long term residents lower their boundaries..allowing 'out of area' to adopt.

My friend is a home checker for many rescues, because one rescue contacts another to ask can you home check for this particular dog, even though she solely is a sight hound rescue base, she gets called on for all different ones and is more than happy to help. A secure garden is a secure garden etc


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Completely gobsmacked.

I fear the type of home they are looking for her does not exist.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Cannot agree more...
> As a browser of rescues...because I cannot help looking...
> I often see rescues, who have long term residents lower their boundaries..allowing 'out of area' to adopt.
> 
> My friend is a home checker for many rescues, because one rescue contacts another to ask can you home check for this particular dog, even though she solely is a sight hound rescue base, she gets called on for all different ones and is more than happy to help. A secure garden is a secure garden etc


Yes, I know a few people who have been called upon to home check for a rescue with a potential home out of their usual area and they're generally happy to help out.

Sadly this rescue seems to be giving excuse after excuse as to why a home isn't right


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

SLB said:


> I've kept quiet till now. This rescue has had one offer (that I know of) of a home that would be excellent for her. And also one offer of an excellent foster whilst they find her a home. And this rescue has turned down the latter because it is "out of their rehome" area. What the actual!


I'm very worried for Paisley 

I hope the rescue and @BigMomma are still reading this thread. 
BigMomma needs to contact the rescue and come clean about the lies she told them so they can make more informed choices about what is best for Paisley.
The rescue needs to realize that the kind of specialized home they need is not going to be found in such a small area, and with two offers (that I know of, there might have been more) both with clear ability to home a dog like this, they are crazy to turn those offers down. 
If it's a home inspection issue, they can contact other rescues in that area that they trust and ask them to do a home check. Rescues help each other all the time. It's important as a rescue to network and reach out for help when you need it.

The bottom line, it is NOT in any way in Paisley's best interest to remain in a kennel environment. She is a WL GSD for crying out loud, from good lines. There is NO way it takes 7 months to assess her needs or put some basic training on her. If she had really had 7 months of training she should be blowing people away by now with her training, not barreling around a fenced yard ignoring every human in it.

If nothing else, they need to let Paisley go back to the breeder or stud dog owner who do have the resources to train her and find an excellent home for her.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

When I worked for Bichon Rescue it did not matter how far I had to drive the dog so long as the home was a good one so I don't understand its out of the area stuff to be honest I have driven over 100miles to place a dog in a home that I knew would be amazing for the dog Would they not allow the foster home to go and collect Paisley ?


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Such a sad story in all  Paisley deserves a good knowledgeable home and she needs one now !!


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> Yes, I know a few people who have been called upon to home check for a rescue with a potential home out of their usual area and they're generally happy to help out.
> 
> Sadly this rescue seems to be giving excuse after excuse as to why a home isn't right


This would worry me...

I know of a few rescues that I would say are rather slack even with home checks, and I worry about what dogs they are matching to prospective owners...but its like this rescue who seems to have no clue what a potential good home is for this dog, and no idea what this dog's potential could be. It is pretty scary!

Look at Nataliee here and Harry. Loads of GSD, and dog experience. I bet if she turned up enquiring with her chis, they would take one look and say no. However, her chis are even a credit to her, all trained on the paths of the KC good citizen awards, which is no easy pathway. The way Harry is worked is amazing too, but it seems they would just presume chi owner knows very little...just handbag dogs. Which they truely are not! Any good toy breed owner expects the same from their dog as one with a larger dog. Just the training to get there, depending on traits for all dogs is different!

Poor Paisley. I always used to believe rescue was the way, but after private rehoming myself, I can always see the benefits of both!


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

This whole situation is massively frustrating. People are saying we should be helping not judging, but then they reject help? I see a certain trainer has offered help too, they haven't acknowledged him but I hope they have had the decency to get in contact with him behind the scenes. 
I couldn't help in the end as I believe she isn't spayed, and I have an entire male, I would be out of the 'area' as well.

Paisley would have struck gold with Kirsty. So basically the perfect home needs to live nearby, well we must presume that perfect home isn't going to be there as in the time they've had her they could have knocked on every single door in the area by now. Grrrr


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm surprised that a 'rehab' kennel is willing to pin their rehoming area into such a small area. A lot of their dogs seem to have pretty awful aggression issues, surely they stand a better chance of finding a specialist home if they could spread out the search?
I don't really understand why they want to hold on to her so much, when it would free up space, time and money.

Really tragic.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Insane that they would not let this girl go to what would have been the best home all round, I think that is a HUGE mistake on the rescues part, one they should seriously reconsider if they want to do the best by this girl, it would also free up space to allow them to help others. This home would be perfect  I know a Rottweiler rescue who I am sure could offer rescue back up in that neck of the world and I am sure could provide homecheckers if required?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I just hope their refusal of both prospective foster homes was for genuine reasons, and not just because they're associated with the forum here or the 'negativity' surrounding her on the FB page. I'd hope they wouldn't refuse Paisley a home because of their ego.
I've shared her with my training group. Hopefully that will get her seen by a wider audience and I think ( hope ) we'd be in the catchment area fir anyone interested, after all Norfolk isn't far from Cambridgeshire/Bedfordshire.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

Hrm... I posted a concern/question about why they would ask someone who clearly stated they were in Scotland to fill out an adoption form and then refuse her for being out of area. 
And now they have removed the post about Paisley entirely from their FB page. 
Not exactly the behavior of a group who doesn’t have anything to hide....


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Hrm... I posted a concern/question about why they would ask someone who clearly stated they were in Scotland to fill out an adoption form and then refuse her for being out of area.
> And now they have removed the post about Paisley entirely from their FB page.
> Not exactly the behavior of a group who doesn't have anything to hide....


:Banghead I also don't understand when Kirsty clearly stated she lived in Scotland.. then ask for a foster form to be completed.. then they make Kirsty wait a week just to be told she is out of area


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow well that was helpful of them wasn't it? Bye bye goes the 35 shares trying to help this dog


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Am shocked at this rescue...

How unhelpful is this place...

What do they expect to do with Paisley...keep her in kennels/foster home that has not a clue then x years time appear in the news as the dog who has spent the longest time in rescue...bang goes the offers of unsuitable homes...get a nice pic in the paper, donations and what a waste of dog which could have lived a totally fulfilled life and now as a senior, has a retirement home to live out a few years!

Totally bizarre!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Ouesi had just asked in another post why they didn't say anything with regards to Kirsty fostering / location etc and their response was 'EGSR didn't encourage Kirsty to apply to foster Paisley, it was a comment made by a member of the page just like yourself' That whole post has now been deleted but I got a screenshot as I went to reply but I got an error back.

The person certainly sounded like they work for EGSR as they mentioned the head office being busy etc and this was why there was a delay in the foster response. 

Feels like Paisley is never going to find her forever home


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

It's been said before - perhaps they just like having a WL GSD in their care that is from good lines.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

SLB said:


> It's been said before - perhaps they just like having a WL GSD in their care that is from good lines.


Would they even know this?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

How odd 

I really thought Kirsty was going to get her. It seems like a crying shame to me


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

Nataliee said:


> Wow well that was helpful of them wasn't it? Bye bye goes the 35 shares trying to help this dog


Yup, those are gone now too...

I have never worked with a breed specific or all breed rescue who was this reticent to answer basic questions. I myself have had difficult conversations with people when they're denied a dog, and it was always full disclosure. Nothing to hide. How we train, why we take the dogs we do, whey we don't take certain dogs, why we adopted to this person and not to that person, why we adopted to you once but choose not to again. They might not like the reasons, but we always gave a reason and were secure enough in our policies to be able to explain them understandably and share them with the public. We also made exemptions and were happy to explain those also.

I get an odd "something not right here" feeling about this rescue. And I have for a while now. Nothing they have done has assuaged that feeling, rather the opposite, it's made it worse


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Wow. I'm pretty disgusted to be honest. Sounds to me like they don't really care enough about finding her a home, and as I had just shared her post yet again with potential interested people I think they're doing a massive disservice to this poor girl. How does removing her post help her in any way, shape, or form? Now she is not in the public eye she will continue to languish in kennels


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Would they even know this?


Cos the breeder has been in touch with her and several people have told them......


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Wow. I'm pretty disgusted to be honest. Sounds to me like they don't really care enough about finding her a home, and as I had just shared her post yet again with potential interested people I think they're doing a massive disservice to this poor girl. How does removing her post help her in any way, shape, or form? Now she is not in the public eye she will continue to languish in kennels


Cos your share also had all the important stuff underneath... the stuff that showed them in a bad light. They obviously don't care and just want to be lavished with "You're great"... 

I hope they're still reading this thread. They're coming across as animal hoarders. And yes, they may have rehomed a few, but why else keep this girl when she's had 1 fab home offered and a fab foster home offered?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SLB said:


> Cos your share also had all the important stuff underneath... the stuff that showed them in a bad light. They obviously don't care and just want to be lavished with "You're great"...
> 
> I hope they're still reading this thread. They're coming across as animal hoarders. And yes, they may have rehomed a few, but why else keep this girl when she's had 1 fab home offered and a fab foster home offered?


Which brings it all back round to their damaged ego  They care more about the comments they've received than keeping Paisley in the public eye....*sigh*


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The situation is really frustrating and I forsee Paisley being there for a very long time.. shame on the rescue personally !


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

God I wish I could go and get her!!! So frustrating, poor Paisley


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Another thing I find sad is that they're happy to promote the damaged & unpredictable dogs but yet Paisley, with no 'complications' bar some under socialization and high energy is more or less ignored and now removed from their FB page entirely. Doesn't make sense at all.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Paisley is going to be stuck there for the foreseeable future at this rate  and she'll be getting more and more frustrated... GAH I'm frustrated for her


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Wonder if someone shared this story with a newspaper would it help to get a good home for her I don't know but was just a thought that popped into my head


----------



## chissy 15 (Mar 13, 2013)

I have been reading through this thread and a thought has crossed my mind at the rescues reluctance to rehome Paisley, now I have no experience on how rescues work, especially small independent ones. It had been said that Paisley hasn't been spaid, now I hope to god my thought is wrong and please all shout at me to shut up if you think I'm saying complete nonsense, but could they be thinking to breed from her? Their reluctance to rehome when good homes have offered just doesn't make sense and it is costing them to keep Paisley there, poor dog


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

chissy 15 said:


> I have been reading through this thread and a thought has crossed my mind at the rescues reluctance to rehome Paisley, now I have no experience on how rescues work, especially small independent ones. It had been said that Paisley hasn't been spaid, now I hope to god my thought is wrong and please all shout at me to shut up if you think I'm saying complete nonsense, but could they be thinking to breed from her? Their reluctance to rehome when good homes have offered just doesn't make sense and it is costing them to keep Paisley there, poor dog


I don't think so, I'm not getting that vibe at all.
I think she is spayed because on the now deleted comments under her picture EGSR questioned whether the breeder would want her back now that she was spayed. Obviously I don't know for sure if she's spayed or not, but they sure made it sound like she was.



shirleystarr said:


> Wonder if someone shared this story with a newspaper would it help to get a good home for her I don't know but was just a thought that popped into my head


In principle this is a great idea, many rescues and shelters here in the US use the media to share their dogs and expand their audience. Our local paper has a weekly "adoptable pet of the week" spotlight section.
However, considering how reluctant EGSR is to share information and how quickly they delete any comments they don't like, my gut instinct is that they don't want any publicity they can't strictly control.

I'm beginning to think I would like to see a story on this whole fiasco though, but that too could turn in to rescue bashing in general, or breeder bashing in general. Meh... Who knows...

There was a huge to-do here a few years back about a sheltie who was co-owned I think who ended up in a shelter, and literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal battle later, the shelter finally returned her to her rightful owner. It was pretty awful


----------



## chissy 15 (Mar 13, 2013)

So glad to hear that, would so like to hear a happy ending for this poor dog!


----------



## Aahlly (Sep 12, 2014)

I've been silently following poor Paisley's story and this is all very odd. I'm just thinking though, is anyone actually in touch with the rescue? Could it be that they have removed her from the Facebook page because they've found a home, foster or otherwise for her and we just don't know? Why else would they turn down two perfectly good offers and then remove her from the page? Obviously we could all assume that she has been removed for whatever reasons, sinister or not, or the rescue is just being difficult, but if no-one is actually in contact with them, would we even know what's happening? Just a thought.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Aahlly said:


> I've been silently following poor Paisley's story and this is all very odd. I'm just thinking though, is anyone actually in touch with the rescue? Could it be that they have removed her from the Facebook page because they've found a home, foster or otherwise for her and we just don't know? Why else would they turn down two perfectly good offers and then remove her from the page? Obviously we could all assume that she has been removed for whatever reasons, sinister or not, or the rescue is just being difficult, but if no-one is actually in contact with them, would we even know what's happening? Just a thought.


If they had re homed her why would they just say that and not take the page down though?


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2016)

I think she's still up for adoption, they didn't take everything about Paisley down. There were 2 posts left, a video and a post about the negativity they had received surrounding Paisley. They would have removed everything or put something up if she had been rehomed.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

An update : A PF member offered Paisley a home following homecheck and was turned down for spurious reasons. I offered Paisley a foster home, with the likelihood it would become permanent, and was more than happy to have a homecheck done by GSD Rescue Scotland or another rescue deemed suitable by EGSR. I finally received a response to say that I was outwith their rehoming area - despite one of their members requesting I fill an adoption form in knowing full well I live in Scotland. Now Steve Mann of the IMDT has been out to assess her and is sharing her details on his FB page, the IMDT page and also the Twitter account, so fingers crossed a local, experienced and suitable home steps forward and the rescue finally release her to live the life she should be enjoying.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/748209548889038848


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Moobli said:


> An update : A PF member offered Paisley a home following homecheck and was turned down for spurious reasons. I offered Paisley a foster home, with the likelihood it would become permanent, and was more than happy to have a homecheck done by GSD Rescue Scotland or another rescue deemed suitable by EGSR. I finally received a response to say that I was outwith their rehoming area - despite one of their members requesting I fill an adoption form in knowing full well I live in Scotland. Now Steve Mann of the IMDT has been out to assess her and is sharing her details on his FB page, the IMDT page and also the Twitter account, so fingers crossed a local, experienced and suitable home steps forward and the rescue finally release her to live the life she should be enjoying.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/748209548889038848


I saw Steve Mann had seen her and also saw on the photo that the poor girl still needed a good groom!

Hopefully she will find a new home shortly.


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I really hope Steve can help her coat looks dreadful don't they ever brush the poor dog


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I believe Steve was just asked to assess her and offer the rescue some advice based on his findings, so sadly she won't be getting ongoing help or training. As we said at the beginning of this thread, the poor dog needs out of kennels and into an experienced home where she can start the process of living a healthy, active, normal life for a young dog. 

I actually think her coat looked a bit better in Steve's photo and as though she has had a groom. Sable coats are hard to judge, esp in a black/white photo.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I find it amazing that Steve managed a still photo of the girl, considering the blurb the rescue keeps repeating...
I really do hope the rescue finally does right by Paisley, they have defo lost a huge amount of support over this debacle tho.


----------



## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I wonder if the Rescue have been/are pinning all their hopes and efforts into getting the police to accept her as it could add kudos to them that ya'know they have passed dogs onto the police for training after they 'rehabbed' them.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Am gutted they don't really seem to have done anything with her though...

I definitely think MM has hit the nail on the head though.

Which is where a good rescue would be still be looking at all options...

Hopefully now a good home will be found!


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

MontyMaude said:


> I wonder if the Rescue have been/are pinning all their hopes and efforts into getting the police to accept her as it could add kudos to them that ya'know they have passed dogs onto the police for training after they 'rehabbed' them.


Police said she was too nervous I think and as no one is really working hard on her social skills and training then I very much doubt the police will be interested


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

shirleystarr said:


> Police said she was too nervous I think and as no one is really working hard on her social skills and training then I very much doubt the police will be interested


Doesn't this show the naivety of the rescue though?

They just presumed that a WL GSD would make the grade as a police dog! Not taking into account her temperament, and like you said pretty much not doing any assessment with her.
A fair few rescue dogs do become service dogs of all types, but usually rescues pick up on their ability not just look at their breed!


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

It wasn't actually the rescue that contacted the police about her


----------



## Guest (Jun 30, 2016)

Moobli said:


> An update : A PF member offered Paisley a home following homecheck and was turned down for spurious reasons. I offered Paisley a foster home, with the likelihood it would become permanent, and was more than happy to have a homecheck done by GSD Rescue Scotland or another rescue deemed suitable by EGSR. I finally received a response to say that I was outwith their rehoming area - despite one of their members requesting I fill an adoption form in knowing full well I live in Scotland. Now Steve Mann of the IMDT has been out to assess her and is sharing her details on his FB page, the IMDT page and also the Twitter account, so fingers crossed a local, experienced and suitable home steps forward and the rescue finally release her to live the life she should be enjoying.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/748209548889038848


Yes, fingers crossed. Thanks for the update


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Nataliee said:


> It wasn't actually the rescue that contacted the police about her


However then surely the rescue would have said with basic assessment she's is nervous! That's usually a big no no immediately and no trial, assessment performed.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

lullabydream said:


> However then surely the rescue would have said with basic assessment she's is nervous! That's usually a big no no immediately and no trial, assessment performed.


I think the fact that she has a strong genetic make up and the fact siblings and half siblings are already doing well in working homes made the police interested in looking at her. Also they said she was nervous once out of her environment (which leads me to think she was confident while in kennels) and that she had not been socialised. The rescue apparently wanted the donation within 4 weeks, which just wasn't enough time for the police to try to turn her around. Their advice to the rescue was to return her to her breeder who would have the time and experience to work with her and then they would be happy to come and test her again.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

So blooming sad!

Lets hope now she's had a proper assessment a decent and right home can be found...without the rescue being silly!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I just hope she finds a home soon. We've all certainly rallied around to try and get her seen. I'm still mad at the rescue for removing all her posts. I also wrote on their wall just asking for regular updates and my comment appears to have been deleted  and they think their dogs will find homes?

Anyway, glad Paisley was assessed by Steve. A shame he can't regularly work with her. Has he mentioned anything about her behavior at all?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Paisley was spayed today and it was found her reproductive organs were fused to her spine? so she has a longer recovery time and needs to be on crate/cage rest.

The FB page have asked for no negative comments as they'll be removed, and I'm not posting here to encite more negativity. Just updating those who want to be kept in the loop


----------



## Guest (Jul 5, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> Paisley was spayed today and it was found her reproductive organs were fused to her spine? so she has a longer recovery time and needs to be on crate/cage rest.
> 
> The FB page have asked for no negative comments as they'll be removed, and I'm not posting here to encite more negativity. Just updating those who want to be kept in the loop


Glad she has been spayed. 
Am I the only one who though they made it sound like she was already spayed?


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm surprised she hasn't been spayed until now... @ouesi i no you aren't the only one.

Never heard of reproductive organs fused to the spine tho...neither has google  But then I'm not a vet so maybe it is a "thing"


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> I'm surprised she hasn't been spayed until now... @ouesi i no you aren't the only one.
> 
> Never heard of reproductive organs fused to the spine tho...neither has google  But then I'm not a vet so maybe it is a "thing"


I hadn't heard of it either to be honest with you.

I wonder if @Ceiling Kitty might be able to shed some light for us?


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> I'm surprised she hasn't been spayed until now... @ouesi i no you aren't the only one.
> 
> Never heard of reproductive organs fused to the spine tho...neither has google  But then I'm not a vet so maybe it is a "thing"


Not heard of such a thing either....trying to work out the physiological logistics of it and failing....


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

labradrk said:


> Not heard of such a thing either....trying to work out the physiological logistics of it and failing....


Yeah I'm getting myself all confused trying to work it out


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

labradrk said:


> Not heard of such a thing either....trying to work out the physiological logistics of it and failing....


Me three.

I'm sat here like 'um, maybe it? Or it could be? Or it would be? Um, nope. I'm stumped.'


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm just repeating what they said, so have no idea whether it's possible or not and I've never heard of anything like that either. They actually said they was 'bonded' to the spine if that makes any difference.

But yes, I was under the impression she was spayed already too.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

From what I read I did not think she was spayed yet, someone had left a comment saying would the breeder still want her back if she was spayed. Never heard of reproductive organs being fused to the spine, interested to know what could cause that or if it is something from birth


----------



## Guest (Jul 5, 2016)

Hopefully @Ceiling Kitty will see this an maybe let us know - I sure don't know anything about reproductive organs fusing to the spine so interested to find out.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

To the spine? No idea at all how that would occur.

To the _dorsal body wall_ - ie the 'ceiling' of the abdominal cavity immediately underneath the muscles that surround the spine? Plausible.

The best explanation I can come up with was that she had adhesions in the abdominal cavity, leading to the uterus or its ligaments attaching themselves to the body wall.

This is not uncommon in dogs who have previously suffered from peritonitis or undergone previous abdominal surgery. The adhesions form a bit like scar tissue and can stick everything together.

I've heard of this happening spontaneously, for reasons that nobody is really clear about, but I've never seen it myself and never hope to; if it _was_ adhesions, must have been a horrid surgery to do.

Hopefully she recovers well.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> To the spine? No idea at all how that would occur.
> 
> To the _dorsal body wall_ - ie the 'ceiling' of the abdominal cavity immediately underneath the muscles that surround the spine? Plausible.
> 
> ...


Poor little girl. Would she have been in pain due to it?


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I was also under the assumption she would have been spayed by now. Hope she recovers soon but how bizarre.


----------



## Guest (Jul 6, 2016)

Thanks @Ceiling Kitty  Yes, adhesions make much more sense, though surprising in such a young dog with no prior surgery or injuries. Hopefully she will recover well


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

MiffyMoo said:


> Poor little girl. Would she have been in pain due to it?


I only know that in humans that adhesions can be painful, obviously depending where they are.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks for clarifying @Ceiling Kitty.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

All sounds a bit odd. Poor Paisley looks thoroughly fed up with herself.

I have adhesions having had a caesarean section and have only heard of them happening when there has been prior surgery.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> To the spine? No idea at all how that would occur.
> 
> To the _dorsal body wall_ - ie the 'ceiling' of the abdominal cavity immediately underneath the muscles that surround the spine? Plausible.
> 
> ...


I wondered if they could be adhesions, as I have them after abdominal surgery.

Fingers crossed she recovers well, I guess it will be a while before she can be homed if there were complications, not that it can be helped but I feel like she's just had bad break after bad break, I really want to see her in a decent home!


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Moobli said:


> All sounds a bit odd. Poor Paisley looks thoroughly fed up with herself.
> 
> I have adhesions having had a caesarean section and have only heard of them happening when there has been prior surgery.


That's why I have them too! I thought they would only occur after injury or surgery too.

Agree about her looking fed up as well


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Moobli said:


> All sounds a bit odd. Poor Paisley looks thoroughly fed up with herself.
> 
> I have adhesions having had a caesarean section and have only heard of them happening when there has been prior surgery.


As far as I am aware most adhesions in humans are usually due to scar tissue caused by surgery.

However I do know occasionally, and this was explained to be by a consultant in hospital that not all adhesions are caused by surgery...there needs to be some trauma, so that's either surgery, injury, or inflammation which could be appendicitis or dysentery for example. Due to fluidity of our internal organs this is how adhesions occur.

It does still seem odd with such a young dog, however there is no guarantees with biology.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm guessing it's just a genetic oddity with her though, considering she's so young? Poor girl does look thoroughly depressed though as you would after major surgery.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I contacted the rescue again a week ago to try and glean an update on Paisley and her situation, but sadly they have not replied. I don't suppose anyone else has heard anything?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Moobli said:


> I contacted the rescue again a week ago to try and glean an update on Paisley and her situation, but sadly they have not replied. I don't suppose anyone else has heard anything?


I've heard nothing either and have regularly browsed their FB page for updates to no avail


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> I've heard nothing either and have regularly browsed their FB page for updates to no avail


Such a shame  We can only hope she is now in an experienced home and out of kennels.


----------



## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

I had a look for any updates on both Facebook pages and the website but couldn't find anything new website still says the same as it did before. I really hope they've managed to find her a good home


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2016)




----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

They haven't responded to NR either, it does seem that they haven't been very active on their social media accounts since August/Sept. I just hope the dog is in a happy home


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just randomly thought I'd look on the EGSR website and Paisley is no longer listed on there so hopefully that means she is finally in a good home.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh yes, just seen she has a 'now rehomed' in her bio under the 'success stories' section


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh yes, just seen she has a 'now rehomed' in her bio under the 'success stories' section


Bless her, I hope she's happy and loved now.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Just randomly thought I'd look on the EGSR website and Paisley is no longer listed on there so hopefully that means she is finally in a good home.


I really do hope so. I contacted EGSR at the beginning of this month, asking whether Paisley had now been rehomed but I got no response


----------

