# Daughter cut cats ear :(



## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

So my daughter has cut kobis ear with scissors this morning. I've already had the RSPCA out before to talk to her cos she's been bad to our cats. We told her how bad it was, how the cats felt and how I can go to court and how I can go to court if she carries on hurting them

Help!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Does your daughter have a medical condition that would explain this behaviour? Is Kobi ok?


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

I have queried adhd and aspergers in the past but professionals assure me she hasnt got them. Kobi seems fine but it must hurt and must of hurt when it happened. I'm close to tears here. She at the bottom of the stairs till I work out what to do


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Omg! Hope kobis not in too much pain x


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Have you taken him to the vets to get checked out? At least they may be able to help with the pain he must be in, even if he doesnt need stitches.

If you have had the RSPCA out because of her behaviour towards the cats already, it may be time to think about rehoming the cats before she does anything else.

If you dont want to do that maybe invest in a few stairgates so that she cant get at the cats without supervision.

I would also make sure that she doesnt have access to scissors, knives, or anything that could be dangerous, especially as she is only 6 years old.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

How big is the cut, has the cat seen a vet ? I would be very worried for cat if she has hurt it before and would sadly contemplate rehoming as it's your duty to keep them safe and unharmed, which you can't do if your daughter is hurting them, I can't really comment on child rearing aspect as I don't have children and don't want to upset you with my views.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I think you need to approach your doctor in the morning and insist that she has professional help for this, its a very slippery slope. You will have to be insistant, but this does not sound like naughty behaviour. My son has aspergers but he wouldnt hurt an animal instead he is very sensitive towards them, but these things manifest in different ways for different people. Perhaps it would be safer to rehome the animals and concentrating on getting the help for your daughter, I dont mean that to sound harsh and I know how heartbreaking that will be for you but I dont think you can guarantee their safety around her.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

I would look in to psychological therapy/counseling for your daughter, especially if this has happened before. The sooner, the better, as just like with animals, its far easier to change behavior patterns in a young subject than in an older one where they have become more ingrained.

Counseling might not be a bad idea for you too - help deal with the unique difficulties and stress of raising a difficult child.

How old is this kiddo?


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## dharma66 (Oct 25, 2009)

This isn't normal, and she needs professional help.

You really should rehome the cats for their safety.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if this isn't dealt with now, you are possibly in for a lot of future pain.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, that must be so stressful for you. I do think you should consider rehoming your animals or get a foster for them until you have a plan of treatment or behavioural therapy and can be sure they won't be harmed again.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I think at six she would have a basic grasp on cause and effect and would understand that cutting Kobi with scissors would hurt. What did she do to the cat the first time this happened and was it the same cat? How is she with the others?

Have you sat her down and asked why she did it and what she thought would happen - ie; did she think it would hurt him? What is her behaviour like otherwise on a day to day basis? 

I know I am asking lots of questions but most children are not just cruel by nature and I'm sure your daughter isn't either, I am wondering why she is doing it. I have got two children and I do understand how hard it is to watch them every second of every day but all sharp objects need to be put out of reach from now on.

I'm sorry to say that rehoming is something I would be considering at the moment, and be honest with her about it - explain calmly and kindly that being unkind to her pets means they have gone to live with another family .


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

This has got to be a terribly stressful time for you. 
Be assertive with your doctor about your daughter being refered to a specialist this is not normal (as I'msure you know) behaviour. As others have suggested maybe for the time being temporarily rehoming the animals might help relieve some stress and keep them safe.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Just a thought but could she be jealous of the attention you give them xx


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

How do you punish your daughter if she is cruel????
Do you get through to her????
Apparently not, if she hurts or torments the cat again and again.....
Unless she is a totally cruel, sadistic child, who doesn't care for anything or anybody, which, if she were, you should have noticed in other ways as well....

She must learn she cannot do things like that, and she will suffer the consequences if she does. A cruel deed like this asks for serious consequences to show her the immensity of the deed. A 6 year-old must know she is hurting them, so she is doing it on purpose, unless there is something wrong with her perception of life around her.

I know that, when I was a child, I would have received a thorough spanking for deliberately hurting an animal. Nowadays spanking a child is forbidden in many countries, but I think they have gone a bit too far in child protection in that respect. There is a great difference between measured punishment and a trashing, and in my personal experience as a child, if something was bad enough to deserve a spanking, it was truly _evil_, and I'd never do it again.....
And that counts for something, as I have ADHD, so I have been extremely impulsive and thoughtless all my life, acting first and realizing the consequences afterwards. 
But then, a spanking was reserved for truly horrid deeds, which is why the impact was so great. NOT because it was painful, falling from a tree was painful, too, and it never stopped me from climbing one the next time. But the very fact that my parents would hit me for something I had done meant it was far too serious for an ordinary punishment.

I am not saying you must spank her, but you must find a way to REALLY get through to her that this behaviour is TOTALLY unacceptable and that you will not stand for it.

And if she will not learn to respect the cats, there will be no other option than to rehome the cats.

You simply cannot expose pets to a child that feels no no empathy or remorse towards them.


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

I hope that Kobi is OK and has been to the vets. 

I do not have children so cannot comment on your Daughter's behaviour, but I will say that scissors and sharp objects should be out of reach.

I would honestly consider rehoming your cats for their safety.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

This thread has made me feel physically sick 

There's been lots of research into children who commit acts of animal cruelty and if the RSPCA have been involved in the past, this is not the first random act.

The animals need to be rehomed for their safety.

There are lots of articles about the link between animal cruelty from children who go on to commit further acts of cruelty : Abuse Connection - The Link Between Animal Cruelty and Interpersonal Violence | Pet-Abuse.Com Animal Cruelty Database

BBC News | HEALTH | Warning over child animal cruelty


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have to say this sounds like attention seeking behaviour from your daughter. I realise how hard it must be for you but you need to have a look at what might have occurred recently for her to feel the need to take out her pain and probably anger on an innocent animal. When was the last time she did something to one of your cats? And what was happening in your lives then?
You obviously know that this is not the normal behaviour of a 6 year old child and you need to find the reason.
In the meantime I would seriously consider finding a foster home for the cats until you can be sure of their safety.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I just noticed you are a single mother, which may, to some extent, explain the problem. I have seen something similar with my friend and her son, she was a single mum, too.

The thing is, in a family, you tend to have a role division, mummy is there to comfort if they hurt themselves, with daddy usually being sympathetic but a bit mor e distant, and daddy will usually be the one to be stern with them if they do something wrong, with mummy backing him up. 

When you have to raise a child singlehandedly, you need to play both roles, without a second parent to enforce your words and actions. And at the same time, you want to give your child enough love for two, because they have to miss daddy's love and care on a day-to-day basis. 

Because they often feel kind of guilty that the child has to grow up without daddy, mothers tend to be too lenient and hold back on being really stern in punishment. They tend to only play the role of the loving mother, and even more so than if there had been a father to call them to task for bad behaviour.

There should be a balance between love and correction, which simply is very difficult if both roles fall to the same person. Maybe you know another adult your daughter looks up to, who can back you up on correcting her, and who can voice his or her disappointment and shock about her behaviour.....


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

So there is now a history of your 6 year old hurting your cats, you definitely need to think about rehoming your cats, otherwise it could be far worse next time. 

Shocked at this


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I have to say this sounds like attention seeking behaviour from your daughter. I realise how hard it must be for you but you need to have a look at what might have occurred recently for her to feel the need to take out her pain and probably anger on an innocent animal. When was the last time she did something to one of your cats? And what was happening in your lives then?
> You obviously know that this is not the normal behaviour of a 6 year old child and you need to find the reason.
> In the meantime I would seriously consider finding a foster home for the cats until you can be sure of their safety.


If it is attention-seeking behaviour, which is very probable, she is definitely succeeding...
I think you ought to see a pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist about this, and learn how to stimulate AND reward positive attention-seeking, and how to discourage negative attention-seeking.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

I know it must be terribly upsetting reading posts saying take your daughter to the doctor but I think you know in your heart just how serious and alarming her actions are 

You MUST rehome your pets. If she has hurt them before and continues to do so this is unlikely to change. 

Everyone is trying to be gentle (and rightly so, this must be devestating for you ) but if it were my daughter, I would be taking her to the doctor and ask for a referral. I would insist on it based on her displaying sociopathic traits. 

I am truly sorry if this sounds harsh, I can't imagine how your heart must be breaking, having to face such a dreadful truth, but it's vital you act now. 

I think you know this anyway, I suspect posting here was one way of validating your fears


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

Wow.. I don't really know what to say? I hope Kobi is ok?

I'm by no way a councillor or a psychologist but I have a background in Forensic Science.. part of the training for that is Psychology and Criminology.. understanding or trying to understand why people do things.. etc.

There's a very clear link between children abusing animals and then becoming serial killers in adulthood!

"_Abusing an animal is a way for a human to find power/joy/fulfillment through the torture of a victim they know cannot defend itself._"

I agree 100% with the others on here.. all your animals should be re homed as quickly as possible before she hurts them again. I would go back to your doctor and force the issue as much as you can.. this isn't right or normal! GP'S can refer children to a councillors/ psychologist etc.

_Studies have shown that violent and aggressive criminals are more likely to have abused animals as children than criminals who are considered non-aggressive. A survey of psychiatric patients who had repeatedly tortured dogs and cats found that all of them had high levels of aggression toward people as well._

I could find sources all day concerning this sort of behavior... Please don't allow this to go on anymore.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I have nothing to add to what has already been said ,you need to find a safe place for your cats,then you can concentrate on finding out what has caused this unnatural behaviour towards animals .


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Can I ask what prompted the visit from the RSPCA?

It really does sound to me from the basic info you have given, your daughter is attention seeking, and it's the poor cats that are being used. Has anything changed in your life?

Unfortunately if you are worried what your daughter will do next, then the cats have to be taken to safety, and you need help in finding out why your daughter is misbehaving in this way. She is 6 years old, so she will know what she is doing is wrong!!

If this is purely naughty behaviour on your daughters part, then she needs some serious discipline in her life. I know for a fact when my daughter was this age, she certainly knew what was right and wrong ......


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

I dont want to derail in to a parenting debate, but I thoroughly disagree that harsher, more significant punishment is called for here, especially if the punishment is about the parent exerting power and control over the child - think for a minute what that is teaching the child - especially a child with power issues already.

Einstein said that if we are good only because we fear punishment and hope for reward then we are a sorry lot indeed, and I agree. The child who is only good to avoid a punishment will not grow in to a good adult, just a sneaky one who will do what they want so long as they can figure out how not to get caught.

No, this is FAR more than a parenting issue and not something that will be solved with a few spankings. I really think this child (and parent) need professional help.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

We answered, you logged out!!

Think we need more information if you really want our help .......


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

When the op last posted she had her daughter still sat on the naughty step, I would think she will have logged off to watch her daughter and hopefully will log back on tonight when shes safely tucked up in bed. I wouldnt be able to stay on the computer while she was amusing herself doing god knows what.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> When the op last posted she had her daughter still sat on the naughty step, I would think she will have logged off to watch her daughter and hopefully will log back on tonight when shes safely tucked up in bed. I wouldnt be able to stay on the computer while she was amusing herself doing god knows what.


The OP has logged on at least twice since the original post and is currently viewing the cat chat forum.

I just hope the poor cat is okay


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

my daughter will be sitting at the table all day. although she is expressing how much she disikes this. and she wont shut up, i am so upset and angry.

i called the rspca last time to let her know how serious her behaviour was.

i have called them again today to see how they can help me.

kobi is fine, he doesnt need the vets, i have been siting fussing him inbetweenm making daughter stand at door with hands on her hand for not shutting up/rudeness.

my stomach and heart hurts so much.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> We answered, you logged out!!
> 
> Think we need more information if you really want our help .......





dougal22 said:


> The OP has logged on at least twice since the original post and is currently viewing the cat chat forum.
> 
> I just hope the poor cat is okay


i was looking at the forum on my phone i wasnt logging in and out.

ive been sorting daughter out, ringing rspca, fussing/feeding cats, reading the posts, ringing my family, texting a friend.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

kinley said:


> my daughter will be sitting at the table all day. although she is expressing how much she disikes this. and she wont shut up, i am so upset and angry.
> 
> i called the rspca last time to let her know how serious her behaviour was.
> 
> ...


I don't think the RSPCA are equipped to deal with your daughter's issues.

How bad is the cut to the cat's ear? Have you cleaned it with sterile solution? Have you at least called the vet for advice?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

kinley said:


> my daughter will be sitting at the table all day. although she is expressing how much she disikes this. and she wont shut up, i am so upset and angry.
> 
> i called the rspca last time to let her know how serious her behaviour was.
> 
> ...


Wait what???
So youre going to make her sit at the table all day? What is the lesson here? What is your child learning from this?
And YOU called the RSPCA? To threaten your child?

Please, please, PLEASE look in to counseling for yourself and your child. This is NO way to parent.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Why do you think she is doing it?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Jenny1966 said:


> Why do you think she is doing it?


TBH it sounds like learned behavior to me.
Ive worked with problem children for years. Children who live with capricious punishment that is about power not guidance tend to do the exact same thing to those less powerful than them.

Im kind of sick to my stomach reading this, so Im going to bow out...


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Wait what???
> So you're going to make her sit at the table all day? What is the lesson here? What is your child learning from this?
> And YOU called the RSPCA? To threaten your child?
> 
> Please, please, PLEASE look in to counseling for yourself and your child. This is NO way to parent.


hold on a minute!! if we have different parenting views then fair enough, but what do you suggest as a consequence and if its anything psychical then dont bother repling to me!!

and i have rang them for advice and for help with finding a foster home while i sort out daughters problem


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Does your daughter show any remorse at all for hurting the cat?
Or is she just sorry for herself and angry at you?

A child her age should realize she has hurt another living being.

If she does not accept responsibility for her deed or show any remorse at all, I would say she shows an alarming, pathological lack of empathy, and she might just as easily hurt another child as a cat (or you, for that matter, if she is mad at you), if it serves her purpose and if she thinks she can get away with it.....


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Jenny1966 said:


> Why do you think she is doing it?


Sorry Jenny, but the OP can surmise this question until she's blue in the face. This is the 2nd act of cruelty to an animal (we have been made aware of), professional help is needed.

I don't mean to come across as a b%tch, but my priority is for the cat, not the child; that's the parent's responsibility. This is, after all, a CAT forum.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

ouesi said:


> TBH it sounds like learned behavior to me.
> Ive worked with problem children for years. Children who live with capricious punishment that is about power not guidance tend to do the exact same thing to those less powerful than them.
> 
> Im kind of sick to my stomach reading this, so Im going to bow out...


learned behaviour?? you trying to say shes seen me do things!?

how dare you, i wouldnt do anything of the sort!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I know this is heartbreaking, I havent been in this situation but Ive been in the position of feeling that my aspergic child is the worst behaved in the world and Im the worst mum on the planet. You cant deal with this by punishing or discipling your child harder, you will need professional help for this, which you will most likely have to fight to get . I think youre being very hard on yourself and you need to take a deep breath, maybe go out with your daughter and diffuse the situation, explain to her that you will be going to the doctors to find out why she did what she did and that for now the matter is on hold. I do think the cats (at least for now) need to be removed from the situation though.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

when i told her they will now have to live elsewhere she was crying and screaming that she didnt want them to go


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## Cherbe3 (Jul 5, 2012)

I was wondering, did you daughter show remorse for what she did to the cat? 

I have younger sisters (Mum went for a second round when me and my brother grew up!), two and six, both have adhd and aspergers. Remorse is something they both can't really grasp. They don't understand, but they do have a cat and know that they cannot hurt her, but only because they have learnt, it's not compassion. 

They were both very rough with her at the start and punishing them for it didn't work, but what we did find is that when we rewarded them for being gentle and loving towards the cat, that they stopped being rough and started being great little puddy cat owners 

Please don't think I am telling you how to be a mum or a cat owner, I am inexperienced at both but I could imagine if I had a child do this to my cat I would keep them away from each other and most likely punish the child, but if the child doesn't show remorse they don't understand what they have done. So it might be worth praising your daughter for the positive and well hope that it is enough to discourage the negative.

Good luck m'dear and I hope the best for your little family!


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Guys, please tread carefully here. This is a very serious situation and its obvious that Kinley knows that.

Its one thing to listen to people tell you this and that about your dog and cat but to do so about a child is a completely different matter. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I would react if I read something like this in relation to something my child had done:



> There's a very clear link between children abusing animals and then becoming serial killers in adulthood!





> Studies have shown that violent and aggressive criminals are more likely to have abused animals as children than criminals who are considered non-aggressive. A survey of psychiatric patients who had repeatedly tortured dogs and cats found that all of them had high levels of aggression toward people as well.


I'm pretty certain that this could have been said in a far more tactful way!

Kinley, I really feel for you. I do think that you need support and your daughter needs some form of counselling. I personally don't think it means she's an evil child, but more that she is desperately trying to get attention.

It honestly isn't the business of anyone on this forum, but I wonder if things are tough for you at this time and perhaps stress may be rubbing off on your daughter. Do you have much support from family/friends around you? I don't expect you to answer but I do think that both you and your daughter need someone to talk to.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

kinley said:


> hold on a minute!! if we have different parenting views then fair enough, but what do you suggest as a consequence and if its anything psychical then dont bother repling to me!!
> 
> and i have rang them for advice and for help with finding a foster home while i sort out daughters problem


I dont think anyone is suggesting you physically harm your child.

People will get very upset when you post on this forum when a cat has been hurt, and you are obviously very upset that your daughter has done this.

It really does sound like your daughter needs some professional help, as I said before she is old enough to know what she is doing is wrong.

Is it just the one cat she picks on? Is it just the cats she treats badly, or is she showing you a lot of dis-respect?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> I know this is heartbreaking, I havent been in this situation but Ive been in the position of feeling that my aspergic child is the worst behaved in the world and Im the worst mum on the planet. You cant deal with this by punishing or discipling your child harder, you will need professional help for this, which you will most likely have to fight to get . I think youre being very hard on yourself and you need to take a deep breath, maybe go out with your daughter and diffuse the situation, explain to her that you will be going to the doctors to find out why she did what she did and that for now the matter is on hold. I do think the cats (at least for now) need to be removed from the situation though.


I agree with TDM here, first of all sort the cats out, I'd be worried sick even leaving them to visit the loo in this situation. 
Then tomorrow I'd start looking into help for your daughter, you will likely have a fight on your hands (we did for our son, but we got there in the end) but be persistent & it will pay off.

But please, please get the cats somewhere safe, is there a family member who can take them, at least in the short term?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinley, I am so sorry to hear what has happened and understand it must be deeply upsetting for you knowing your daughter behaved in such a cruel way to one of your cats. 

Sometimes cruel behaviour from young children towards animals is *learned* behaviour. Please understand I am not in any way suggesting your daughter "learned" her behaviour from you. But is there anyone else in the house, or has there been previously, whom your daughter could have witnessed being cruel to the cats? 

Or is there any other child with whom your daughter is associating, either in the neighbourhood or at school, from whom she could be learning such unacceptable behaviour? 

As others have said, I do feel the most important thing is to try and establish why she is doing what she is doing, before any more punishments are handed out. Because if by chance your daughter is hurting your cats because she is very angry with you for some reason, then punishing her is only going to make her even more vindictive. But next time she will be more discreet.  

I appreciate when you are so upset it is difficult to sit down and have a calm non-threatening discussion with your daughter, and for that reason I would suggest asking someone else she trusts to talk to her in private as soon as possible. For example, does she have a favourite teacher whom you could confide in, who would talk to her, and try and establish what's wrong? 

Could there even be a problem at school, such as bullying, which is making her take out her anger out on vulnerable creatures. It does sound very possible there are power issues going on here. 

In the longer term a period of family counselling from a professional family counsellor sounds as though it would be helpful. Can you speak to your GP about being referred for this? 

I am sure everyone here wants to do all they can to support you, so please keep talking to us, and don't feel we are judging you harshly. We are just concerned about the welfare of the cats.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

sorry i am struggling to reply to everyones questions

her dad hasnt seen her in a few months but i know this is no excuse

she shows little respect for me as it is. she is 2 extremes model chid and complete devil, yet school have noticed no problems there. 

i have done parenting courses and do almost everything the 'correct' way yet she is still very dfficult

kobi is asleep on the sofa, the vets said they will check him over tomorrow

i will put the cats downstairs this evening and lock the stairs door so daughter cant get down


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

LouiseH said:


> Guys, please tread carefully here. This is a very serious situation and its obvious that Kinley knows that.
> 
> Its one thing to listen to people tell you this and that about your dog and cat but to do so about a child is a completely different matter. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I would react if I read something like this in relation to something my child had done:
> 
> ...


IMO, something is being missed here. This is a CAT forum, not a child forum. A child that appears to be showing some serious behavioural problems that warrant medical/psychological intervention.

I haven't commented on the parenting skills of the OP and do not intend to. My priority is, and will remain, for the cat. The OP posted this on a cat forum. If she is having problems within the family, a CAT forum is not the place to address those problems and the resulting consequences of those problems.

The child cut the cat's ear with scissors. The OP has not sought advice from a vet  I know that if someone cut MY ear with scissors, I would be in pain, so why wouldn't the cat feel pain too?

If someone chooses to make a thread such as this as the OP did, it's a public forum, people are entitled to express opinions.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

chillminx said:


> Kinley, I am so sorry to hear what has happened and understand it must be deeply upsetting for you knowing your daughter behaved in such a cruel way to one of your cats.
> 
> Sometimes cruel behaviour from young children towards animals is *learned* behaviour. Please understand I am not in any way suggesting your daughter "learned" her behaviour from you. But is there anyone else in the house, or has there been previously, whom your daughter could have witnessed being cruel to the cats?
> 
> ...


she has not witnessed anyone else harming cats

ive asked her tme again why she did it, first she said dont know then that the cat hurt her

i am also concerned of the welfare of my cats


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> > The child cut the cat's ear with scissors. The OP has not sought advice from a vet  I know that if someone cut MY ear with scissors, I would be in pain, so why wouldn't the cat feel pain too?
> 
> 
> The OP spoke to the vet who said he will check the cat over tomorrow, so apparently it is not seen as am emergency situation.
> ...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The OP has turned to this forum for help - the fact that is a cat forum shouldn't come into it. She needs help for her cats and her child.
I think everyone has given the best advice possible regarding the cats in this situation - they should be rehomed, at least temporarily. 
As far as the child is concerned, I think professional help is called for. There is a reason for her actions and I really think that needs to be addressed before any progress can be made. She may not be able to explain why she did it, at least not to you. That's why you need outside help, preferably professional.
Perhaps a visit to an animal shelter where she could see seriously injured animals might help her to understand the hurt she has caused to Kobi


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

kinley said:


> > ive asked her tme again why she did it, first she said dont know then that the cat hurt her
> 
> 
> Well that is at least a *lead*, something that could be used as a starting point to try and unpick what is going on, if you tread softly.
> ...


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

kinley said:


> she has not witnessed anyone else harming cats
> 
> ive asked her tme again why she did it, first she said dont know then that the cat hurt her
> 
> *i am also concerned of the welfare of my cats*


Are the RSPCA going to help? Obviously all of us are concerned about the cats, as it's them that are getting the brunt of your daughters anger.

Personally I think it only fair that either a foster home, or some other avenue is sought ASAP so that no more harm can come to your cats.

This will then give you time to concentrate on any problems your daughter may have.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

LouiseH said:


> Guys, please tread carefully here. This is a very serious situation and its obvious that Kinley knows that.
> 
> Its one thing to listen to people tell you this and that about your dog and cat but to do so about a child is a completely different matter. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how I would react if I read something like this in relation to something my child had done:
> 
> ...


I apologize for not being very 'tactful' with what I said... but this isn't a case of a young child pulling a dog/cats tail or ears.. this is taking a pair of scissors and cutting a living breathing animals ear. There's a difference between the two.. A child that pulls a cat/dogs tail or ears (which i don't agree with btw) is usually misguided they don't understand what they are doing.. I find it very hard to believe that anyone could take a pair of scissors and cut an animal and not be aware of how much pain they are causing. The force alone that she would of exerted on the scissors makes me feel ill.

I do think this is an issue for a psychiatrist / councillor.. as quickly as possible before it does escalate into something scary (if this isn't already scary enough)!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

chillminx said:


> The OP spoke to the vet who said he will check the cat over tomorrow, so apparently it is not seen as am emergency situation.
> 
> *It would depend where the cut is I think as to how much it hurts, or whether it hurts at all.* I remember years ago a hairdresser accidentally cutting my ear with the scissors and it poured with blood but didn't actually hurt! Having the cut stitched later was what hurt!


Because we do not know where or how badly this poor cats ear has been damaged,neither does the vet, how can anyone know whether it does or doest need treatment.
I am not in a position to advise re this kind of child behaviour never having come across it personally,but assuming a cat isnt in pain after having its ear cut with scissors is nonsense and does need to be checked IMO


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

buffie said:


> Because we do not know where or how badly this poor cats ear has been damaged,neither does the vet, how can anyone know whether it does or doest need treatment.
> I am not in a position to advise re this kind of child behaviour never having come across it personally,but assuming a cat isnt in pain after having its ear cut with scissors is nonsense and does need to be checked IMO


Hi Buffie, you have misquoted and it looks like I'm saying it depends where the cut is, if it will hurt.

Could you please amend the quoted post as the quote definitely isn't mine.

Thanks.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm thinking aloud here ......

I have a concern that this poor cat will now be scared shitless of this little girl, and if she approaches it, then it will show anger towards her. How will she react if it bites or scratches her  this is why these cats need to be removed ....


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

How bad is the cat's ear?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

dougal22 said:


> Hi Buffie, you have misquoted and it looks like I'm saying it depends where the cut is, if it will hurt.
> 
> Could you please amend the quoted post as the quote definitely isn't mine.
> 
> Thanks.





buffie said:


> chillminx said:
> 
> 
> > Because we do not know where or how badly this poor cats ear has been damaged,neither does the vet, how can anyone know whether it does or doest need treatment.
> ...


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

chillminx said:


> The OP spoke to the vet who said he will check the cat over tomorrow, so apparently it is not seen as am emergency situation.
> 
> *It would depend where the cut is I think as to how much it hurts, or whether it hurts at all*. I remember years ago a hairdresser accidentally cutting my ear with the scissors and it poured with blood but didn't actually hurt! Having the cut stitched later was what hurt!


I've also had a cut ear, on at least three occasions - every time it really hurt. A lot. I am able to verbally express when I'm in pain. A cat isn't. But the cat may start to become aggressive to the child for being the cause of pain, and this could give the child another reason to harm the cat


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## Midnight13 (Jun 20, 2012)

My child has Asperger's and has never shown anger or malice towards an animal or abused one in any way. He once tried to pick Bum up in an unusual way (sort of backwards!) to move him and got a hefty scratching, but just dropped him and ran away in shock.

I'm not sure that's where the problem lies.

I would also suggest removing the cats and maybe a referral via GP to CAMHS for an(other?) assessment.


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

ouesi said:


> TBH it sounds like learned behavior to me.
> Ive worked with problem children for years. Children who live with capricious punishment that is about power not guidance tend to do the exact same thing to those less powerful than them.
> 
> Im kind of sick to my stomach reading this, so Im going to bow out...


My daughter has never hurt another human being or an animal in her life.

She has been asking dr's etc for help for a long time (not just about her daughter being cruel to the cats) And she has hit brick walls every time and they would not even assess her daughter so they are the ones at fault. My daughter deals with and looks after her daughter and cats very well and if her daughter is being cruel to the cats in secret then my daughter is unable to stop it. As she has said she has sought a vets advise and asked the rspca for advise too and for the time being until something is sorted then the cats will be shut down stairs for their safety and she will see a dr tomorrow when the surgery is open.

So it would help my daughter if you could just help and advise her with the cats and not start accusing her of being the cause of her daughters cruelty to the cats.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

It's at the tip, less than half a cm and not bleeding


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> Hi Buffie, you have misquoted and it looks like I'm saying it depends where the cut is, if it will hurt.
> 
> Could you please amend the quoted post as the quote definitely isn't mine.
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry dougal22 dont know how that happened  I see it has been sorted thanks Lynn


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## Midnight13 (Jun 20, 2012)

I think it's a lot more important on concentrating on solving the problem, than pointing the finger and trying to pinpoint the origin and assign blame.

All parents make mistakes, and some things are beyond a parent's control. 

For example - (I'm not saying it's like this situation) something terrible happened to me when I was very little at the hands of a neighbour, and it severely affected my behaviour and mental health - everyone is very quick to blame the parents, and even in instances of cause and effect behaviour it certainly doesn't have to originate with a parent.

I still think it might be best to at least get the cats fostered for a while to clear the air and slowly regain trust between your daughter and the cats once things have settled down. I realise that might not be possible logistically but it seems a logical choice, if you can.


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

Its easier said than done getting her cats into foster care with rescues and cattery's already full to bursting and thousands of other cats and kittens on their waiting lists so in the mean time the cats need to stay at home and my daughter is taking steps to ensure this does not happen again until she can get the help she needs.


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## Midnight13 (Jun 20, 2012)

Purrrrfect said:


> Its easier said than done getting her cats into foster care with rescues and cattery's already full to bursting and thousands of other cats and kittens on their waiting lists so in the mean time the cats need to stay at home and my daughter is taking steps to ensure this does not happen again until she can get the help she needs.


Sounds really stressful - I hope your family can get someone onside to help with your little un. It takes a lot of wheel squeaking before you get any oil these days


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

PM Kelly-joy on here .... she might be able to help.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Purrrrfect said:


> > So it would help my daughter if you could just help and advise her with the cats and not start accusing her of being the cause of her daughters cruelty to the cats.
> 
> 
> I think that was just about the only negative post, and the FM who posted it said they were bowing out of the discussion. So hopefully your daughter and yourself can put that comment to one side, as everyone else here is being sympathetic, concerned and trying to be supportive
> ...


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## Midnight13 (Jun 20, 2012)

I may have missed mention of this and what you've tried so far but when my GP refused to refer my boy to CAMHS (due to lack of knowledge) I formally requested the school do it, in writing, if you do that you have quite a good chance of getting to see someone.

As it was we were told by the person we saw that she couldn't help but would refer us on to a psychologist and that referal has been...um...mislaid. :mad2: but it's worth a try.

Address the letter to SENCO c/o School. And formally request a referral to CAMHS due to escalating behavioural issues - the school has a duty of care. Also they don't like parents kicking up a stink with formal letters!!!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Purrrrfect said:


> *Its easier said than done getting her cats into foster care with rescues and cattery's already full to bursting *and thousands of other cats and kittens on their waiting lists so in the mean time the cats need to stay at home and my daughter is taking steps to ensure this does not happen again until she can get the help she needs.


Because there is a history, with the RSPCA being involved on a previous occasion, then surely they can pull strings?


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

I would agree with trying your best to remove your cats from the home in the short term and explaining to your daughter that they have gone away for a short time as she has hurt them and they need to be safe (do not sugarcoat it).

For counselling advice I would suggest contacting relate they offer concealing services for adults, couples, parents and children so both you and your daughter can be supported while getting some additional help from your GP.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

kinley said:


> It's at the tip, less than half a cm and not bleeding


You mentioned the cat hurt her, but your daughter made a conscience decision to find/get a pair of sissors - this shows a determination to hurt the cat.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Cookieandme said:


> You mentioned the cat hurt her, but your daughter made a conscience decision to find/get a pair of sissors - this shows a determination to hurt the cat.


Unless you have a pair og sissors lying about in every room its definately pre meditated


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Unless the scissors just happened to be at hand.
When I was your daughter's age, I had a quarrel with another child, and I grabbed the first thing I could find, which happened to be a pair of scissors, and threw it at that person. But if it had been a roll of paper, I would have thrown that. I didn't even realize what I had thrown until the scissors were embedded in the door......


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

The scissors were her own child's scissors with her craft stuff in her room


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

kinley said:


> The scissors were her own child's scissors with her craft stuff in her room


I am sorry about your situation must be hard(personally my 2 children 4 and 7 wouldn't dream of such things) however long this has gone on for i wouldnt of let her have scissors craft or any other especially in herbedroom without supervising x


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## Terimarie (Jul 5, 2012)

That's fairly upsetting, how old is your daughter? Maybe take her to see animals in shelters and ask a worker there to talk to her? I don't know. From the sounds of it talking to her just doesn't get through. How horrific!


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> Unless the scissors just happened to be at hand.
> When I was your daughter's age, I had a quarrel with another child, and I grabbed the first thing I could find, which happened to be a pair of scissors, and threw it at that person. But if it had been a roll of paper, I would have thrown that. I didn't even realize what I had thrown until the scissors were embedded in the door......


You didn't put your fingers in the holes and try to cut her with it though... I don't agree with it but I could sort of understand if she threw the scissors at the cat after it had hurt her.

When I was a kid I was picked on mercilessly and had on occasions thrown things in retaliation and temper but not because I wanted to hurt them just defend myself.

OP I'd just like to apologize if I have offended you in any of my posts.. I can understand that it must be a really stressful time for you.. 1) because your cat has been hurt and 2) because your scared/upset by your daughters behavior. I hope you can get the help you need for your daughter and find someone to look after your animals while you go through this process.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

well this is nothing compared to the abuse i have got from a parents forum 

kobi is fine, playing happily. daughter has been made to sit all day with no priviliges

i am in a mess stomach head and heart


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

sorry to hear about poor Kobi and your daughter. Hope you can get the help that you need for them both soon


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't have been nosy but from looking on the mum's forum it makes me feel a bit worried for the safety of your child and the cats.


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## marple (Jun 9, 2012)

This behaviour is not acceptable she is 6 years old not 2. She knows she is hurting this poor wee cat. I don't care if people think I'm horrible the cat doesn't deserve this treatment and u clearly can't protect it. All animals should be removed till this problem sorted. I wonder if she would be as eager 2 cut a large dogs ear. The whole situtation is disgusting an horrific. I hope something is done 2 remove the anlmals from this abuse they don't deserve being treated like this.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

kinley said:


> well this is nothing compared to the abuse i have got from a parents forum
> 
> kobi is fine, playing happily. daughter has been made to sit all day with no priviliges
> 
> i am in a mess stomach head and heart


I can only apologize if If I've made you feel any worse.
I think what your doing atm is the right thing to do. I guess the only thing you can do before you see a doctor is to talk to her.

I don't have children and at the moment I don't feel I could cope with them.. I would of reacted in the wrong way. :scared:


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

I might be wrong, please correct me if I am. But did you tell the vets what actually happened or did you just say he had injured his ear? Because no reputable vet would let you keep the cat and your daughter in the same home. You could be in a position now where you can't own any pets for their own safety. I'm not trying to scare you but I seriously think having pets in the same home as your daughter is very dangerous. 

Instead of taking your daughter to the park, why don't you sit and have a talk with her to find out why she did what she did? As others have said, it would have taken quite a determined mind to grab the cat, grab the scissor and try to cut off part of his ear.

This whole story just really worries me. Can the cats stay with some friends for a few days?


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

So soory to hear about what happened to Kobi, has she done anything similar to Lexi or millie. I know she is your children but you also have a duty of care to your animals as well and you really need to deal with this asap for all concerned.

You said that you've had the rspca out before - can i ask why, was it for something similar to this?.

I know i havent seen you posting for a while or perhaps i missed it.

Ive never wanted children, so i cant begin to understand things when it comes to them, but i know you've said, shes be made to sit and no privilidges - dont bite head off please, but does she understand pain and the hurt that comes from with it?

As ive said ive never wanted children myself but i think if id been in your position id have taken her to have her ear piereced to feel for herself that it hurt - but thats me


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Sorry you are in this situation.

I do not believe that children should learn that actions have no consequences. You say she has been cruel/harmed your pets before so has clearly had a second chance but has done this now. Therefore in your shoes I would rehome all your pets and I would do it without warning or threat or build up. Simply do it and then calmly explain that they have had to go where they will be treated kindly.

I personally would then ignore any histrionics and calmly tell her there is no point shouting or screaming as they have gone.

I agree that she would appear to need some specialist assessment/counselling as this is certainly not typical misbehaviour. I would think your gp would be first point of contact.

Maybe in a few years you may feel she can be trusted again with a pet.

For now though you must protect your pets and I really hope you can find somewhere safe for them pronto as I find it terribly upsetting that your cat has had to suffer this and seems to be at risk of further harm.

Good luck.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

kinley said:


> So my daughter has cut kobis ear with scissors this morning. I've already had the RSPCA out before to talk to her cos she's been bad to our cats. We told her how bad it was, how the cats felt and how I can go to court and how I can go to court if she carries on hurting them
> 
> Help!


i think it's time you taught her some serious boundaries , she may only be six years old BUT she is old enough to understand what she is doing. take everything away from her and i mean everything , time for some tough love.



kinley said:


> well this is nothing compared to the abuse i have got from a parents forum
> 
> kobi is fine, playing happily. daughter has been made to sit all day with no priviliges
> 
> i am in a mess stomach head and heart


sitting all day isn't a suitable punishment for a child that has continuously hurt animals for fun / attention.
i think it's time to go back to basics and reward her as you would a toddler for good behaviour - in the meantime taking anything away from her that she values , such as TV , DVD's , gamestations etc and only return them when her behaviour towards you and the animals improves!
have you thought about getting some support from social services ? you can self refer.


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

The things that have been written on another forum tells a different story to this, her words were that she's been cruel to the cat before.

Also she has taken the young girl to the park, how on earth will she learn that way?

I don't mean to be the bad guy but you're not being honest with us about the situation.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Id say this is fairly serious behavioural problems..
At 6 a child knows right from wrong, at 6 a child knows about pain..

My eldest son has ADHD my younger son is bi-polar query aspergers, neither of them would have dreamed of causing pain to an animal..

It does sound harsh but you need to step in firmly before it goes further..This time its your cat and the injury isnt too bad ..who or what will it be next time?
The point is you are not doing your child any favours by covering for her..

Get her the help she clearly needs and get your cats and any other animals out of her reach.

Not bashing you or your daughter, but this is serious and bound to get worse if not tackled now.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

abbieandchi said:


> *The things that have been written on another forum tells a different story to this, her words were that she's been cruel to the cat before.*
> Also she has taken the young girl to the park, how on earth will she learn that way?
> 
> I don't mean to be the bad guy but you're not being honest with us about the situation.


Kinley has said that the RSPCA have been involved before, but hasn't answered the question as to why ......


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

kinley said:


> > well this is nothing compared to the abuse i have got from a parents forum
> 
> 
> I hope you also got some positive advice and support? If not, then I wouldn't bother with that forum! I mean how on earth is heaping abuse on you going to be productive!:mad2:
> ...


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

I just had a nose at the mums forum....


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

How is the cat? He's probably in a lot of pain at the moment, the size of the cut doesn't really matter at the end of the day, it's still serious enough to warrant an emergency vet. Have you told the vets how it happened?

I'm horrified that you haven't spoken to your daughter about why it happened to see if you can gauge an idea of why she is doing it, especially as this isn't the first time. What if next time she ends up injuring the cat to the extent that it would have to be put to sleep?

I've looked on the mum forum and actually I think they're about as concerned as we are without being nasty, they also care not only about the welfare of your cats but your daughter too.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

> i asked why she said cos the cat hurt her i said what did the cat do ? she said he sratched her, i asked why she said she was holding him and stroking him.
> 
> i said you wouldnt do that to a person so why have you done it to a cat she said cos a person would scream
> 
> everytime she talks i make it clear how very angry i am how and extremly wrong it is and it isnt getting through to her. she still hummin away and shuffling about


Thats from the mothers forum.. thats a but worrying no?


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

abbieandchi said:


> I'm sorry, *perhaps I shouldn't have been nosy but from looking on the mum's forum *it makes me feel a bit worried for the safety of your child and the cats.


You're not being nosy, it's there for anyone to view.

The mums forum elicited harsher responses in some respects. PF was quite tame in comparison. A lot of people were concerned for the cat's welfare on there too.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

I just feel so sorry for everyone involved here, for the OP, who is clearly at the end of her tether, doesn't know what to do and is trying to seek help and advice, for the little girl who thinks it's ok to be cruel to a cat when it scratches her, and especially for the cat who has been injured by her actions. I don't have a clue what the answer is but I hope and pray she can be made to see the consequences of her actions and grow up to be sympathetic and sensitive towards animals.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

We have been quite tame in comparison!


But bottom line, they have said much the same as we have ...... rehome the cats, and get the daughter some help.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

i dont know what to say i cant remember all the questions ive just read, and i havent been dishonest on here i have been struggling with what to write

i told the vet the truth!

i asked the rspca to come out talk to her about chasing them shouting at them etc


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

Please get the cats rehomed? I'm not sure where you are but if you can't get them into a rescue maybe someone on here that lives close to you could take them? The more I think it about it the more worried I'm getting.


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## ps60 (Aug 1, 2010)

When I was young, that sort of behaviour would have got me a spanking. Much of what's gone wrong in this country, particularly over the last 30 years, can be traced back to when spanking and the cane was stopped. If getting a good hiding was associated with wrongdoing, there would be fewer wrongdoers around.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

kinley said:


> i dont know what to say i cant remember all the questions ive just read, and i havent been dishonest on here i have been struggling with what to write
> 
> i told the vet the truth!
> 
> i asked the rspca to come out talk to her about chasing them shouting at them etc


it isn't the rspca you need to have words with her , lets face it , you have a daughter who is showing serious mental issues , the rspca cannot sticky plaster those , she needs professional help.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)




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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

What is the point of having the RSPCA out? It clearly made no difference before.

My concern is for the cats. They should not be used as a tool to correct your child's behaviour. Are you going to rehome them.

I do not think your daughter appreciates the severity of the situation because yo have carried on with your day as normal.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Did you catch her doing it?


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

What concerns me now is that when you told your daughter that you wouldn't treat humans that way, she said that humans would scream. That's quite a dark thing for a child to say.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Just seen your photos. Your poor cat. 

Ideally I would have still taken him to the emergency vets with her present and make her explain to the vet what she did.

It doesn't look really nasty but could get infected. At least it is in an area where he can't lick it and make it sore.

Have you bathed it with salt water?


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

ps60 said:


> When I was young, that sort of behaviour would have got me a spanking. Much of what's gone wrong in this country, particularly over the last 30 years, can be traced back to when spanking and the cane was stopped. If getting a good hiding was associated with wrongdoing, there would be fewer wrongdoers around.


I think the difference is respect and being scared we was scares of my dad through this but i wouldnt change it its made me who i am today..I will spank my children if called for and i know thet respect me..I'll put it this way we have more cuddles and i love yous than the other xx


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

abbieandchi said:


> What concerns me now is that when you told your daughter that you wouldn't treat humans that way, she said that humans would scream. That's quite a dark thing for a child to say.


Its a very dark thing for a 6 year old to say..maybe next time she hurts him she won't leave evidence that points to her cause she will learn from this and i dont think its what you want her to learn x


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

abbieandchi said:


> I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't have been nosy but from looking on the mum's forum it makes me feel a bit worried for the safety of your child and the cats.


Why would you be worried for her daughter she has never been abusive to my granddaughter for any reason.



abbieandchi said:


> The things that have been written on another forum tells a different story to this, her words were that she's been cruel to the cat before.
> 
> Also she has taken the young girl to the park, how on earth will she learn that way?
> 
> I don't mean to be the bad guy but you're not being honest with us about the situation.


She just chased the cats to scare them so not actually being cruel as in hurting them. And someone suggested on here that she is taken away from the situation to try defuse it so going to the park was not a treat but she would hopefully open up to her mum more when she got in.

Where's this parent forum??


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

ps60 said:


> When I was young, that sort of behaviour would have got me a spanking. Much of what's gone wrong in this country, particularly over the last 30 years, can be traced back to when spanking and the cane was stopped. If getting a good hiding was associated with wrongdoing, there would be fewer wrongdoers around.


On the other hand, being smacked can put the fear of God into a child and affect its relationship with its parent years down the line. It wasn't the pain that really affected me when my dad smacked me (though I remember that as disproportionately agonising, he never hit me hard) It was the shame. I remember feeling horribly ashamed of myself and afraid. And I'm not entirely sure that there was less wrongdoing 30 years ago. Perhaps it just wasn't as well publicised. If it wasn't for the Internet, you would never have known about the OP and her daughter, it would have just taken place behind closed doors and nobody would be any the wiser.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

Purrrrfect said:


> Why would you be worried for her daughter she has never been abusive to my granddaughter for any reason.


I don't think the concern relates to your daughter hurting her daughter it relates to the mental health of the child.. cutting a innocent animal with scissors isn't normal ... Saying she wouldn't do it to a human because a human would scream is even scarier.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Purrrrfect said:


> Why would you be worried for her daughter she has never been abusive to my granddaughter for any reason.
> 
> She just chased the cats to scare them so not actually being cruel as in hurting them. And someone suggested on here that she is taken away from the situation to try defuse it so going to the park was not a treat but she would hopefully open up to her mum more when she got in.
> 
> Where's this parent forum??


Am I right in thinking you deal with rehoming cats? I noticed you posted in the rehoming section today ..... you also have in your little thing by your name, you are against animal cruelty. Is there nothing you can do to get the cats to a safer home in the short term?

As for the parent forum ..... just type into google .... my daughter cut my cats ear


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> Am I right in thinking you deal with rehoming cats? I noticed you posted in the rehoming section today ..... you also have in your little thing by your name, you are against animal cruelty. Is there nothing you can do to get the cats to a safer home in the short term?
> 
> As for the parent forum ..... just type into google .... my daughter cut my cats ear


they are safe till i find somewhere for them. she has and will be all week sitting at the table and her room is stripped and they will stay downstairs during the night


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Purrrrfect said:


> Why would you be worried for her daughter she has never been abusive to my granddaughter for any reason.
> 
> She just chased the cats to scare them so not actually being cruel as in hurting them. And someone suggested on here that she is taken away from the situation to try defuse it so going to the park was not a treat but she would hopefully open up to her mum more when she got in.
> 
> Where's this parent forum??





Jenny1966 said:


> Am I right in thinking you deal with rehoming cats? I noticed you posted in the rehoming section today ..... you also have in your little thing by your name, you are against animal cruelty. Is there nothing you can do to get the cats to a safer home in the short term?
> 
> As for the parent forum ..... just type into google .... my daughter cut my cats ear


Beat me to it Jens, but if remember right and please feel free to correct me, didnt you ssy you were having to give up re-homing, if you have, would you be able to point your daughtrr to a short term fosterer for a while.

Has anything like this happened with your granddaughter and your animals


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinley -- it sounds as though your daughter resents the cats for some reason, as you mention she has chased them and shouted at them in the past, and now she has upped the ante with this latest incident. Can you yourself think of why she should feel this way? 

Is she close to her dad? Would he be able to give you any moral support atm, with this worrying situation?


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

her dad hasnt seen her for a couple of months


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Whether or not you manage to find a safe place for your cats may just be taken out of your hands if the RSPCA get involved.If I were you I would find some where before they visit you if indeed they do,we all know how useful,or not,they can be.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

buffie said:


> Whether or not you manage to find a safe place for your cats may just be taken out of your hands if the RSPCA get involved.If I were you I would find some where before they visit you if indeed they do,we all know how useful,or not,they can be.


i know how serious this is, ive rang them myself!!!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

egyptianreggae said:


> On the other hand, being smacked can put the fear of God into a child and affect its relationship with its parent years down the line. It wasn't the pain that really affected me when my dad smacked me (though I remember that as disproportionately agonising, he never hit me hard) It was the shame. I remember feeling horribly ashamed of myself and afraid. And I'm not entirely sure that there was less wrongdoing 30 years ago. Perhaps it just wasn't as well publicised. If it wasn't for the Internet, you would never have known about the OP and her daughter, it would have just taken place behind closed doors and nobody would be any the wiser.


I do not agree with you.
If spanking is used for just about every misdemeanor, you are probably right, but I grew up with love and respect for my parents, and they taught me to be responsible for my actions. But if I had done something _really_, seriously bad, I did get a hiding. And I can tell you it worked. It taught me I had really overstepped the mark in a big way.
I think it happened only twice, maybe 3 times, in all my childhood, but to me it marked the difference between a misdemeanor and a crime.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Purrrrfect said:


> My daughter has never hurt another human being or an animal in her life.
> 
> She has been asking dr's etc for help for a long time (not just about her daughter being cruel to the cats) And she has hit brick walls every time and they would not even assess her daughter so they are the ones at fault.


no they are not at fault , she's just not accessing the right kind of help with the right kind of people , for your daughter to want help with the right kind of people it isn't an issue for doctors , it's a social services issue because she would be fast tracked to child psychologists etc they aren't there to judge they are actually there to help.



Purrrrfect said:


> My daughter deals with and looks after her daughter and cats very well and if her daughter is being cruel to the cats in secret then my daughter is unable to stop it.


if she is unable to stop it then it's time the cats were rehoused for their own safety your talking about 7 year old child for christs sake , not a mardy teen!
the cats should have been rehoused after the first incident , not left to suffer this kind of treatment.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Your child is 6 years old, she has done a very naughty and unkind thing, but I think there is an over reaction. If she had really hurt the cat that much it would have scratched her like mad. You have not said the child was. 
Strict dicipline and better supervision around the cats certainly. But re homing??

Who would take on a 6 year child any way


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

kinley said:


> i know how serious this is, ive rang them myself!!!


That is what I meant,if they come round to see you they may take the decision to find a temporary home for them out of your hands.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

I have looked through both post on here on on mum forum what seems to be apparent is that your child is showing no remorse or knows what she has done is wrong, it is very worrying that she said that a human would scream therefore wouldn't do it to them, so because the cat is small and defenceless she can get away with it it seems like classic bully behaviour sorry if i am being a bit frank but this is how i am seeing it.

I really think you should get your cats re-homed as i don't feel they are safe around your daughter, if she readily has access to scissors


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

diablo said:


> no they are not at fault , she's just not accessing the right kind of help with the right kind of people , for your daughter to want help with the right kind of people it isn't an issue for doctors , it's a social services issue because she would be fast tracked to child psychologists etc they aren't there to judge they are actually there to help.


Getting help from the 'right' people or the 'right' services in this country is not exactly easy for anyone...!!! If the doctors won't refer the child to a psychiatrist, she probably won't get to see one. If the school doesn't have any reason to refer her to Social Services, I doubt they would get involved either. As for being 'fast-tracked', we all know how incompetent the social services system can be........ I have experienced it in my own childhood.

I really feel sorry for Kinley as this must be really upsetting for her - she seems like a lovely caring person who just wanted to give a good home to a number of lovely cats, and didn't realise this was going to happen!!

It's not for any of us to say what is the reason behind this child's behaviour, but it sounds like the lack of support from her dad may well have something to do with it. Many children resent not seeing their dads and feel unloved by them and then yes, they will start acting up, that's a common problem


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

I had to give up rescuing and re-homing after my ex hubby ran off with the newly appointed fund raiser and i have quite a few cats myself so cant offer to take them but i'm still in touch with other rescues so i can ask around and see if they can help but as i said before all rescues are at bursting point and don't have enough foster carers so the situation will be dealt with until something can be sorted if i go steaming in to have a word it will only make matters worse. My daughter has done the right thing by calling the vets and the rspca and it is Sunday night so nothing much can be done until morning.

I forgot to say she has never shown any aggression or try to do anything towards my cats when she has visited.


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

northnsouth said:


> Your child is 6 years old, she has done a very naughty and unkind thing, but I think there is an over reaction. If she had really hurt the cat that much it would have scratched her like mad. You have not said the child was.
> Strict dicipline and better supervision around the cats certainly. But re homing??
> 
> Who would take on a 6 year child any way


I find this unbelievable. This isn't the first time the child has been cruel to the cat (mum's own words) and clearly knows what she is doing. Even if she is chasing the cat around the house it is still unkind and she should know better, be this from age or by mum. I don't think it matters how severe the injury is, it is still cruelty and it is never acceptable.

What if next time the cat is killed?!

It seems to me from reading this thread and the thread on the mums forum that her daughter is showing no remorse for what she has done, which is what concerns me. How on earth do you explain the comment about not hurting people because they scream, alarm bells would be ringing in my head if that was my child.

Yes it does seem like the OP is getting a lot of stick but purely because it doesn't seem like she is taking our comments on board. OP, please speak to your daughter and see what is going through her mind whilst it is still fresh and she knows what happened fully. You need to work out what triggered it, I know it said somewhere that the cat scratched her but that isn't an excuse. Perhaps the cat was provoked from being chased around?

I don't think any of this is an overreaction at all, regardless of the size of the injury, something isn't right.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> Getting help from the 'right' people or the 'right' services in this country is not exactly easy for anyone...!!! If the doctors won't refer the child to a psychiatrist, she probably won't get to see one. If the school doesn't have any reason to refer her to Social Services, I doubt they would get involved either. As for being 'fast-tracked', we all know how incompetent the social services system can be........ I have experienced it in my own childhood.


social services have their own child psychiatrists it don't need a doctors referral or a school referral , you can actually self refer so it actually shows how little you do know. i've dealt with social services all of my youngest daughters life [shes disabled] and my experiences with them have been nothing but good. and before the scaremongering starts
they are a public service that are there to help , they aren't there to whip your children away.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

buffie said:


> That is what I meant,if they come round to see you they may take the decision to find a temporary home for them out of your hands.


my decision is already made, i have to rehome them


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

kinley said:


> my decision is already made, i have to rehome them


I am so sorry, you must be devastated but I think it's for the best.


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

kinley said:


> my decision is already made, i have to rehome them


I admire you for making that tough decision, it can't be easy at all. At least you can relax knowing that your daughter can't do anything like this again and you can totally focus on her.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

abbieandchi said:


> I find this unbelievable. This isn't the first time the child has been cruel to the cat (mum's own words) and clearly knows what she is doing. Even if she is chasing the cat around the house it is still unkind and she should know better, be this from age or by mum. I don't think it matters how severe the injury is, it is still cruelty and it is never acceptable.
> 
> What if next time the cat is killed?!
> 
> ...


i have took EVERYTHING on board, daughter has gone to bed now but will be at table every night for the week, plus her room has nothing but furniture and bedding in, the cats are going to be downstairs tonight then rehomed i will be booking a doctors appoinment in the morning

tell me what else can i possibly do


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

diablo said:


> social services have their own child psychiatrists it don't need a doctors referral or a school referral , you can actually self refer so *it actually shows how little you do know*. i've dealt with social services all of my youngest daughters life [shes disabled] and my experiences with them have been nothing but good. and before the scaremongering starts
> they are a public service that are there to help , they aren't there to whip your children away.


I can only speak from the personal experience I had but that was 25 years ago, so there's no need to speak to me like that 

Some of us have been taken away as children, so that's the side of SS that we know about!


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Kinley I think a lot of that post was in response to someone suggesting that you and us are overreacting 

I'm pleased you have decided to rehome for their safety.

Good luck with your daughter


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

kids craft scissors should not be sharp enough to cut a cats ear i find that v worrying where did you get them from?

prob goes against the rest of the thread but please dont lock your child upstairs overnight what if you had a house fire!!!

what did she do to the cat before?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> I can only speak from the personal experience I had but that was 25 years ago, so there's no need to speak to me like that
> 
> Some of us have been taken away as children, so that's the side of SS that we know about!


25 years is a LONG time ago , things have moved on and improved some since then. there is a VERY long process before SS step in and actually take children away nowdays which is WHY so many happen to slip through the net , they are damned if they do help and damned when they don't.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

i will be upstairs too so how is that locking her

she has run after them growling, out a box over one, held them too long things like that


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

i'm so sorry that you find yourself in this position. i hope you can get some help regarding your daugter's behaviour. to go on a forum and post that your child has done something this cruel is to me a brave thing in itself. and to report it to the rspca as well. i'm sure that there are some people would just brush it under the carpet and try and pretend it never happened. the fact that you have already decided to rehome your cats shows how much you care about them. i hope you keep us posted on what happens to your cats and also what happens with your daughter. posting on here might help keep you sane while you sort out your problems, though it does sound like you've got some good support in the real world from your mam.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Cloudygirl said:


> kids craft scissors should not be sharp enough to cut a cats ear i find that v worrying where did you get them from?
> 
> what did she do to the cat before?


would have took some taking to cut a cats ear to the point it bled with some craft scissors! can't imagine the agony the poor cat was in at the time 
had we been talking about a dog here that had it's ears hacked at in the dog section , poor thing would have probably been pts had it retaliated!!!


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## Verity (Aug 17, 2011)

I am sorry to hear of your situation and sorry for your poor cats. You are doing the right thing rehoming them for a short-term relief from your situation. I would offer to take them myself, but my own cat has just passed away and things are very raw.

I hope you find immediate help for your daughter. Try the doctor again, explain what she has done...it is not normal behaviour for a child not to feel empathy for a pet in this way and they must be able to see an escalating situation. I would also recommend Social Services. Both my parents worked in child care (they were wonderful...but I would say that!) and over the last 15 yrs the focus has completely changed to one of keeping the family unit together. They also have counsellors and psychiatrists attached to social care units.

I hope tomorrow is a better one for you and you find a solution for both cats and your daughter xx


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I really hope they can keep your family together Kinley and make sure your daughter's dad doesn't let her down, and sees her and tries at least to spend some quality time with her on a regular basis!!! She needs this to resolve all the issues and problems she is obviously developing, before they get any worse 

But yes, rehoming the cats is probably the safest thing you can do for them at this stage


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

what do you mean keep my family together? my daughter will always be wth me


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

What a horrible situation to be in. I hope you find somewhere nice for the cats and that your daughter gets some help with her behaviour


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## smiler84 (Feb 4, 2012)

i don't think i really have much to add - i think you've made the right decision in rehoming the cats for the time being. it'll be fairer to them, plus you won't have the constant stress of worrying that they might be hurt again. you can focus on getting your daughter the help she needs, and also on looking after yourself.

it's very easy for everyone to sit on an internet forum and judge, and people are entitled to express their opinions when you start a thread (although sometimes in the heat of the debate it's not always done so in the most constructive manner) so try not to take it to heart.

the most important thing is that you find the support you need for you and your family, and i wish you all the best in finding this.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> I really hope they can keep your family together Kinley and make sure your daughter's dad doesn't let her down, and sees her and tries at least to spend some quality time with her on a regular basis!!!


how can you say for sure this problem is down to the child not seeing her dad?? plenty of children don't see their dads!! they don't do things like this though!!!!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

kinley said:


> what do you mean keep my family together? my daughter will always be wth me


Yes but she clearly needs her dad to show her he cares, too.

I was just saying I'm really glad that the system HAS changed so much since I was a child, because what the child needs is their family around them, rather than being taken away. I'm glad that's not an option these days for your daughter, because she needs stability to help her.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

diablo said:


> how can you say for sure this problem is down to the child not seeing her dad?? plenty of children don't see their dads!! they don't do things like this though!!!!


Alot of my friends from my school where I was sent by SS didn't have much contact with their dads, and they had all kinds of behavioural issues. I don't remember anyone who actually harmed animals, but they had all sorts of other bizarre, disturbed behaviour!! Including the friend who gave me 2 of my cats - she has issues to this day caused by not seeing her dad and feeling rejected by him, and that's why she began cat hoarding!!! So these kids really do need their parents' support in order to protect any animals they may have in the future!!


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Treaclesmum said:


> Yes but she clearly needs her dad to show her he cares, too.
> 
> I was just saying I'm really glad that the system HAS changed so much since I was a child, because what the child needs is their family around them, rather than being taken away. I'm glad that's not an option these days for your daughter, because she needs stability to help her.


why would you think my daugher would be taken away?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> Alot of my friends from my school where I was sent by SS didn't have much contact with their dads, and they had all kinds of behavioural issues. I don't remember anyone who actually harmed animals, but they had all sorts of other bizarre, disturbed behaviour!! Including the friend who gave me 2 of my cats - she has issues to this day caused by not seeing her dad and feeling rejected by him, and that's why she began cat hoarding!!! So these kids really do need their parents' support in order to protect any animals they may have in the future!!


you can't blame absent dads for being the root of the problem though can you? there seems to be a lot more going on here than just an absent dad problem. i reared four children single handed after their father passed away non of them ever had such problems or exhibited odd behaviour , they've all turned out rather well really in the great scheme of things , could have been a whole lot worse considering the circumstances.
you can't souly blame a man who don't see his children , there could be so many other factors too.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

kinley said:


> why would you think my daugher would be taken away?


I am just talking about what might've happened approx. 25 years ago when alot of kids did get taken away for bad behaviour problems. I am very glad that doesn't happen now!! It didn't exactly prove very helpful for many of the people I know who were taken away from home.


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## Jenna500 (May 27, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> Alot of my friends from my school where I was sent by SS didn't have much contact with their dads, and they had all kinds of behavioural issues. I don't remember anyone who actually harmed animals, but they had all sorts of other bizarre, disturbed behaviour!! Including the friend who gave me 2 of my cats - she has issues to this day caused by not seeing her dad and feeling rejected by him, and that's why she began cat hoarding!!! So these kids really do need their parents' support in order to protect any animals they may have in the future!!


I'm sorry, what a load of tosh. I am a single mum, now in my 40's, my kids are both teenagers. They don't have any 'issues' at all, with animals or anything else. They're both good, grown, well adjusted children.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

Please can everyone stop talking about taking children away and social services even if they are only talking about the past. It's just frightning a mum who needs some support and guidance. 

Op I think you are handling this situation well. You have contacted the RSPCA for help and are going to get advice from your doctor. Apart from rehoming the cats I'm not sure what else you can do at this stage. 

Your daughter may be attention seeking or upset and acting out. Hopefully your doctor can refere you to a councillor who can help find the route cause. 

To be honest most parents would not of taken the steps you have especially for the first incidents of chasing and growling. I would of never of thought of contacting the RSPCA like you were brave to do. 

Try to talk to your daughter again when things have settled and calmly tell her you are going to have to rehome the cats because of what she's doing. She may open up to you if you take it slowly. I don't believe that any child can be horrible for no reason. I remember the photos you posted when you first got you kittens and your daughter was smitten with then.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> Alot of my friends from my school where I was sent by SS didn't have much contact with their dads, and they had all kinds of behavioural issues. I don't remember anyone who actually harmed animals, but they had all sorts of other bizarre, disturbed behaviour!! Including the friend who gave me 2 of my cats - she has issues to this day caused by not seeing her dad and feeling rejected by him, and that's why she began cat hoarding!!! So these kids really do need their parents' support in order to protect any animals they may have in the future!!


I've never met my dad, in fact I was lied to about who he was for 21 years and don't have any issues due to not having my dad in my life 

To the op I hope you get the help you need for your daughter and yourself, I'm sorry that you are rehoming your cats but I feel you have made the right choice.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

I've put them downstairs for the night as I'm going up to bed I'm so sad I won't have them sleeping with me tonight like they usually do.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I remember the photos too of your daughter Kinley and the cats when you first got them, she looked very happy with them. No child does these things for no reason, she obviously needs some kind of help in the right way, and I hope that's what she will get.

I am very glad for everyone who has got (or has been ) a happy, well-adjusted child from a broken home, I can only speak for the people I know, who were less fortunate.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

SandyR said:


> Please can everyone stop talking about taking children away and social services even if they are only talking about the past. It's just frightning a mum who needs some support and guidance.


now i never actually said social services would take her child away because as i said it's a VERY long process now to start proceedings to take someones children away - they can't just turn up and remove children - there has to be meetings with health professionals called conference meetings before that and then they have to apply to the courts for that kind of order , someone else insinuated 'the taking children away' bit , the usual scaremongering crap
despite what people think , they are a public service and they are there to help , they have all sorts of powers that doctors don't to aid this person with her daughter - they may even be able to get to the root of the problem themselves. contacting SS don't have to be a scary process it is only a scary process if you have something to hide. in this case there is nothing to hide , single mum who needs some outside support with her daughter , thats what SS are there for , they can put the OP in touch with all sorts of people who can aid her in getting some support for herself and her daughter , if she see's the doctor tomorrow as OP pointed out she is doing she may find it could well lead to a referral anyway if the doctor feels they cannot help and mum needs outside support.
it may well not be a medical problem , it could well be a behavioural issue which hasn't been diagnosed , this is where SS usually step in and take over to offer support.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Having just read through this entire thread at one clip, it is interesting to me the commentary that OP and her mother have chosen to reply to. 

Attention seeking behaviour can be learned, just as violent behaviour can.

Has anyone looked back on old posts from about a year or so ago? They are illuminating.

OP: Why would you lock the cats downstairs if they ordinarily sleep with you in your room? Wouldn't they be just as safe, and not so uprooted, if they got to stay with you? And then you wouldn't be so sad, which you've referred to a lot.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Could your little girl be jealous of your cats?
I know you said that they go to bed with you and so I just wondered if Jealousy could be the problem.
You could foster your cats out for a couple of weeks and in those weeks your little girl hopefully will tell you why she cut the cats ear.
There has to be a reason. 
I don't know if taking the kids toys etc away from her will make matter's worse if it is jealousy that's causing it.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

I agree with both the last posters. I think you are wise rehoming the cats then you and your daughter can work on what has gone wrong. I know you love your cats and your daughter. Hopefully she will see you choosing her over the cats and it will bring you closer. 

I wish you all the best and think you are right to let the cats go so the stress of the situation is reduced.


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## tinky75 (Jul 1, 2012)

jill3 said:


> Could your little girl be jealous of your cats?
> I know you said that they go to bed with you and so I just wondered if Jealousy could be the problem.
> You could foster your cats out for a couple of weeks and in those weeks your little girl hopefully will tell you why she cut the cats ear.
> There has to be a reason.
> I don't know if taking the kids toys etc away from her will make matter's worse if it is jealousy that's causing it.


This was my first thought jealousy, my daughter is 6 and she grew up with two cats they have both passed away and we got a kitten in April, she loved him, at times I would tell her not to mither him and be gentle which resulted in her screaming that I love him more than her. I had to sit her down and explain this wasn't true and show her just as much attention.

Only from what I have read on here, jealousy seems to fit with the chasing and even cutting the cats ear. My daughter chases our kittens and can get rough but she has learnt now that it could hurt them.

Only you know your daughter and whether rehoming is the answer, I am sorry you feel that you need to do that, I don't know how long you have been going through this, but it is the 2nd incident and I myself would keep trying, but only you can make the decision.


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

dagny0823 said:


> Having just read through this entire thread at one clip, it is interesting to me the commentary that OP and her mother have chosen to reply to.
> 
> Attention seeking behaviour can be learned, just as violent behaviour can.
> 
> ...


Who's posts are you suggesting people look back on and why delve that far back i really don't see the need for that as it is the issue in hand that help is needed for not any past issues?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Purrrrfect said:


> Who's posts are you suggesting people look back on and why delve that far back i really don't see the need for that as it is the issue in hand that help is needed for not any past issues?


folks do it all the time here so it's nothing new.
it is obviously an issue if things like this have happened before and it is certainly not normal behaviour on any level from a child of 7 years old.
what kind of help and advice do you expect people to give??? because for one i don't think many folks here are really equipped to give advice about children that either hurt animals for ''fun'' or ''attention'' it's obviously a deep routed thing and something that hasn't just suddenly happened being as OP admits it has happened before,,,i'm not trying to be horrible about it , just trying to be a ''realist'' about it.
if you feel uncomfortable about people looking through ''past'' information to build a bigger picture maybe it would be wise to get previous threads removed from your daughter.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I have read through this entire post. My biggest hate is animal cruely, it sickens and saddens me. But I have to say, this all seems a little extreme. I have always had kids and pets with no problems, all my (grown up) kids love animals. I know what this child did was wrong and a little strange, but it looks like a nick, my old cats ears were full of nicks through fighting in his younger days, Im sure the cat is fine now. Has anyone asked the child why she did it? Perhaps she was giving him a haircut? I cannot understand why the OP cant keep the cats, surely they could be kept in a room, or cat run when the OP wasnt able to keep an eye on the child. What if the cat was a younger child, would it be rehomed if the older child got jealous and bit her? I also think the punishment is too harsh, how is it helping her to be made to sit at a table for hours? Instead of rehoming the cats where they seem happy and loved, I think you need to get to the root of the problem, removing the cats isnt solving the problem, you need to find the reason and then stop it.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Obviously the main root of the problem needs to be found.

But telling the OP to keep the cats in the meantime is just irresponsible.

Yes, this child obviously has something bothering her, and the main priority is finding out what her problem is, and getting her the help she needs for it.

There isnt usually a 'quick fix' - these things can take time.

When she is taking out her anger/anxiety on the cats, keeping the cats isn't an option. Why should the cats be in potential danger?


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

I agree with Rose. Young children (& 6 is still young) do some revolting things to new siblings through jealousy. Generally, some degree of animosity towards new siblings is expected by parents. Could this little girl be feeling similarly about the cats? Are the cats relatively new additions to the family? If this was done through jealousy she needs to be reassured that she is most important to her Mum, rather than draconian punishment regimes and being labelled as mentally ill.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Tao2 said:


> I agree with Rose. Young children (& 6 is still young) do some revolting things to new siblings through jealousy. Generally, some degree of animosity towards new siblings is expected by parents. Could this little girl be feeling similarly about the cats? Are the cats relatively new additions to the family? If this was done through jealousy she needs to be reassured that she is most important to her Mum, rather than draconian punishment regimes and being labelled as mentally ill.


Well all the cats joined the family last year, so at_ least_ 9 months ago.

She is nearly 7 years old, so she is certainly old enough to know cutting a cats ear with scissors is wrong.

No-one is labelling her as mentally ill (and so what if she is?) they are saying she obviously has some problems, and it would be good to get help for her to resolve those problems.

I actually think Kinley was really brave to come on here seeking help, she knows what her daughter did isn't right, and she is doing her best to sort out the problems.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

I have read through the whole thread and i have to say the one thing that stands out is the fact that your daughter wouldnt do it to a person because they would scream. That to me kind of proves that she knows what she did was wrong and that she did it to the cat on the off chance that she would get away with it and you wouldnt know. My lot come in with nicks out of ears alot, so if someone was to cut one of their ears i would think it was another nick (not that anyone would as my cats are fighters) How did you find out that your daughter did it?? I have herd cats in pain before and they are certainly not quiet. Childrens craft scissors are not sharp, infact i thought they were made out of plastic, it has taken alot to cut his ear. Did this happen downstairs or upstairs?? If down then she has made the conscious decision to walk up the stairs, collect the scissors, come back down the stairs and then cut his ear. I am not a mother and i dont actually plan to be but if i was in the situation i would try my damn hardest to understand exactly why this had happened. After establishing why take punishment from there. I dont know how sitting at the table is going to show her what she did was wrong  I think i would go the social services route if i am honest. They vary rarely remove children from home and will get you and your daughter all the help she needs. My mum refereed herself to the social services when i was a young teen as i was horrendous. I got amazing help and i think thats what you need. I was one of those children that was hit for being naughty and im sorry but it may work for some, it most defiantly did not work for me. I grew up resenting my parents, especially my dad and if, big if, i were to have children i would never raise a hand to them. 

One thing nobody has said and of course it may be silly to suggest but have you tried the empathy route?? Asked her how she would feel if someone was to cut her with scissors?? Failing that, dont threaten but explain that you could end up in court and maybe even prison because when someone hurts animals the police have to come and take you to the police station??

Its a awful situation to be in and i hope you can resolve it, have you spoken to the cats protection??


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## Vikingtorti (Jun 28, 2012)

How come a child of six has access to scissors, she could do serious damage, to herself

Poor wee cat - maybe put the cats in a cattery for wee while until the issue can be resolved a bit or at least find out what motivated a child as young as this, to do,what she did.:confused1:


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Midnight13 said:


> My child has Asperger's and has never shown anger or malice towards an animal or abused one in any way. He once tried to pick Bum up in an unusual way (sort of backwards!) to move him and got a hefty scratching, but just dropped him and ran away in shock.
> 
> I'm not sure that's where the problem lies.
> 
> I would also suggest removing the cats and maybe a referral via GP to CAMHS for an(other?) assessment.


I have aspergers too, but have never harmed an animal intentionally. I got a warning wack on the hand off my new cat on Saturday when I was messing about with him putting his collar on. That taught me that he was simply overexcited and playful so better to ignore him.


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## tinky75 (Jul 1, 2012)

Apoligies if I have missed something and do not have this correct, but reading this thread it seems the OP daughter started chasing the cats around and doing things to them did I read they put a box on one of them? And then of course the cut on the cats ear? 

To me personally the cat doesn't really sound in much danger, I know it's an awful thing to have happened, so unles anything else is going on with the daughters behaviour I don't see the need to rehome the cats at the moment. I am a mum of a 6 yr old and they do get up to some things, of course hurting a cat is wrong but she needs to be taught why it is wrong, taking the cats away from her could be giving her what she wants - the cats gone and mum to herself?

take her to visit a rescue, show her where animals are taken when they have been hurt by humans, spend time sitting with her and the cats and reward her when she is kind and stroking them nicely. I take my 6yr old to pet shop and let her choose the collars, toy mice and treats etc and make her part of it - as I mentioned earlier I got told I love the cat more than her.

I wonder if there are any children's books that teach about being kind to animals?


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## Endymion (Feb 27, 2011)

tinky75 said:


> Apoligies if I have missed something and do not have this correct, but reading this thread it seems the OP daughter started chasing the cats around and doing things to them did I read they put a box on one of them? And then of course the cut on the cats ear?
> 
> To me personally the cat doesn't really sound in much danger, I know it's an awful thing to have happened, so unles anything else is going on with the daughters behaviour I don't see the need to rehome the cats at the moment. I am a mum of a 6 yr old and they do get up to some things, of course hurting a cat is wrong but she needs to be taught why it is wrong, taking the cats away from her could be giving her what she wants - the cats gone and mum to herself?
> 
> ...


I agree that sometimes kids hurt animals without really realising and understanding, almost as if they were cuddly toys instead of living things...my 6 year old stepdaughter "washed" our cat with cold water and rags, after watching me wash her teddys and doll, last year - we had to have a stern talk about the difference between animals and toys i.e. breath and a heartbeat!

But the difference here is the very dark and toubling reasoning that this 6 year old gave for her actions - because the cat can't scream :frown:

That just makes my blood run cold to be honest and would indicate that the cats could potentially be in danger, as the child sees them as an easy target to vent her frustration on.

I dont see that this is the place to be offering parenting advice as 1) its too emotive and potentially explosive and 2) everyone has such different ideas, its personal choice.

But those cats probobly do need to be rehomed or at least fostered, for their own safety.


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## marple (Jun 9, 2012)

I don't understand people saying 2 keep the cats they r clearly in danger an need 2 be removed. As an animal lover Iam always going 2 worry about them,they didn't ask 4 a home where they would be abused.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

marple said:


> I don't understand people saying 2 keep the cats they r clearly in danger an need 2 be removed. As an animal lover Iam always going 2 worry about them,they didn't ask 4 a home where they would be abused.


Quite.

But I think the point some posters are making is that by removing the cats permanently this may give the daughter what she (consciously or subconsciously) wants. The theory would be the daughter would then 
have learnt that in order to get her own way in life all she needs do is be cruel or violent to those more vulnerable than her. This would be a very bad lesson to teach her.

I don't know what the solution is, my concern is for the cats welfare. They are *rescued* cats, who have been with the OP less than a year. It is very sad and unfair for them to have to go through another upheaval so soon It is as though they are being punished for the daughter's bad behaviour.

Also, the OP obviously adores her cats, and she is going to be heartbroken at having to part with them.

Plus, how practical is it going to be to find good loving homes at such short notice for 3 cats? Especially when the Shelters are all full atm!

When I was growing up if a child seriously misbehaved they were sent to stay with a relative for a while, e.g. grandparents. I remember this happening to one of the neighbourhood children, whose behaviour was a bit wild. He was a changed, much nicer, child when he returned home 6 months later. I don't believe this was necessarily seen as a punishment by the family, though it certainly wasn't seen as a reward by the child. It seemed to be more about removing the child from a fraught situation (temporarily), to see if this might have a positive affect on their behaviour.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

The more I read this thread the more I feel sick / worried / angry / annoyed.
The cats need to be removed from the house, they are in significant danger from being hurt. Kid craft scissors are.usually made from plastic so that "little nick" shown in the photos isn't the result of a short sharp cut its the result of significant and prolonged trauma to the ear. 

The OP's daughter said she did this because the cat hurt her.. a 'normal' reaction from a child who didn't understand would be to push the cat away, maybe scream at it... To find a pair of scissors and then cut the cats ear is not normal It's premeditated and evil. To make it even worse when she also said she wouldn't do it to human because a human would scream?! That sentence tops it off for me.

The result of a number of long in depth studies have shown a very close link between animal cruelty as a child leads to violent crime in adulthood. I'm not trying to be mean or scare the OP just being honest.

This thread was posted on another forum too
where more detail was posted :-/ both Kinley and mother have only answered questions selectively with one liners. With previous threads which like someone else also said are 'revealing' in mind this seems to be an attention seeking thread.


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

kinley big hug for you ((hug))

i will not pretend i know the answer or right thing to help you. 

i do however think alot off people are jumping to conclusions, i have several friends and family members on occasion have repeated to me their child had smacked the dog, or pulled the cats tail...... 

whilst im sure the parents were mortified,and the child was being cruel i would not say there was something wrong with them ??

please don`t take this the wrong way, but children can be cruel, they can be curious ... a friend off mine has a boy the same age as my 4 year old, whenever they are in the garden he feels the need to crush snails, stamp on ants, such like things  i dont like to see it, and it upsets nathan<< im glad it does i don`t want him to grow up to be cruel ....

but i will say suggesting this is op`s parenting method or behaviour is learnt how dare you make that assumption,

i think for now kinley the main thing is having your kitty seen to and keeping your daughter apart from him or being there when they are together 

im sorry for your situation, im no doctor and no proffesional, but if its something you daughter is doing for attention or simply a medical condition causing her to act irrationally then i hope you get some help soon.

i feel really sorry for your cat but im not about to make you feel more sh**y than you already do, hope you get to the bottom off it and hoope your cat and daughter are both okay

big hugs nic xxxxx


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

All due respect this isn't like pulling a dogs tail or smacking its bum this is taking blunt scissors and cutting a cats ear...


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

auspiciousmind said:


> All due respect this isn't like pulling a dogs tail or smacking its bum this is taking blunt scissors and cutting a cats ear...


i know i absoloutly understand that, smacking an animal maybe an immediate reaction , finding scissors and cutting the cats ears i agree is worrying

what i am saying is it doesn`t mean there is something wrong with the child...even if there was i would not know i am no doctor ...nor do i feel i have the right to judge

i just feel sorry for kinley she must be feeling guilty and terrible already 

all fighting amongst ourselves isn`t helping kinley or the cat  x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

auspiciousmind said:


> All due respect this isn't like pulling a dogs tail or smacking its bum this is taking blunt scissors and cutting a cats ear...


I agree with you, it is on a different level altogether. Whilst it would not the right way to behave, pulling a dog's tail or smacking its bum is a spontaneous action in the heat of the moment. Cutting the ear of a cat with craft scissors took forethought, and intent to hurt, by the child.


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

chillminx said:


> I agree with you, it is on a different level altogether. Whilst it would not the right way to behave, pulling a dog's tail or smacking its bum is a spontaneous action in the heat of the moment. Cutting the ear of a cat with craft scissors took forethought, and intent to hurt, by the child.


 perhaps i worded what i was trying to say wrong, but my main priority and thought is that i hope the cat is okay xx


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Nope, it isn't like pulling a dogs tail or chasing them, which is the previous behaviour that this little girl apparently displayed and which I believe is actually quite normal. Not ideal, but normal! Some children do chase animals but it doesn't mean that they are the spawn of satan! 

For those people who think that this is a hugely premeditated action designed to cause severe pain and suffering to the cat, do you not think that if that were her intention she would of inflicted a more severe wound to the animal? I see this wound as a cry for attention, and wouldn't be surprised if she actually shocked herself when she did it. She may have said that she did it because the cat wouldn't scream (not true...cats will scream when pain is inflicted) just because she was trying to be smart with her mum. Kids say all sorts of things that they don't mean because they don't know any better "I hate you mum", "I hate you dad", "I wish you were dead", etc. Children are sometimes capable of very naughty things that they do in the spare of the moment. I have a 6 and 8 year old nephew and I honestly wouldn't put a lot past the 6 year old. He really is a little devil. Evil? No. Capable of killing an animal or child (the source of his frustrations). Absolutely not!! 

I have known of a child that really was a danger to animals, and I do not believe this little girl is.

I personally think that she needs to be more involved with them, not less involved with them BUT I am not an child psychologist or behavioural expert so my advice, and any one else who offers just an opinion should be taken as just that, but not an expert one. A professional is the only person who can give this lady the solid advice that she needs.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I understand what you mean, also I have read that children don't really understand empathy for another's feelings until they are about 10 years old, so if the cat 'doesn't scream' she may not realise she is actually hurting it. She definitely needs to be taught that!

If she is doing it out of jealousy, as suggested, that also needs to be tackled head-on too.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

marleyboo said:


> > uggesting this is op`s parenting method or behaviour is learnt how dare you make that assumption,
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong with stating that "behaviour can be learned". This is a well known fact and one of the main ways that children learn. Children often learn a great deal from watching their peers.
> ...


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

Totally agree what has been said but the more you read into this thread , the thread on the parenting forum etc .. something isn't right


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## Endymion (Feb 27, 2011)

auspiciousmind said:


> Totally agree what has been said but the more you read into this thread , the thread on the parenting forum etc .. something isn't right


It's disturbing isnt it 

To be honest it's quite simple for me: kids often act in ways that are not nice for our animals - being rough, not respecting their boundaries etc and its just all normal kid stuff, but when a child goes as far as to cut a cats ear in retaliation for a scratch and then to articulate that she felt able to do this because the cat could not make a noise and draw attention...that's something else, thats not regular child behaviour.

Im not a child psychologist and do not know Kinley and her child, and its not my role to advise on how to deal with her child.

But i think that I would remove the cats from the situation temporarily, for their own safety. Its not fair on them, that they may be hurt further.

I dont think people should be making judgements about what may be up with little girl or how to deal with her, none of us know...

But the cats need to be protected


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

What do you mean something's not right? What are you suggesting. When your going through this situation and trying to sort everything out and trying to reply to hundred people. One liners are pretty much what I could manage!


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

I personally wouldn't of posted on a plethora of forums anyway but especially about such an emotive subject and not expected the backlash. Some of your other threads in my opinion are also attention seeking. 

I wish you all the best with your child and animals I truly do.


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## Endymion (Feb 27, 2011)

kinley said:


> What do you mean something's not right? What are you suggesting. When your going through this situation and trying to sort everything out and trying to reply to hundred people. One liners are pretty much what I could manage!


I wouldnt worry about trying to reply to everyone on here - just little updates so we all know whats happening as we are concerned and we care - but you shouldnt have to be worrying about replying to all comments, you have enough on your plate with cats, kids etc (((hugs)))

Also, you have put this on a public internet message board so you are going to get all kinds of comments, some you agree with some that might make you angry and upset - but it was your choice to post this so it's probobly not the way forward to jump on people and say "what do you mean, how dare you" if they say something you don't like.

At the end of the day, if I put a message on here saying "my stepdaughter is cruel to my cats, what should I do" there would be a deluge of comments - some supportive, some attacking my parenting...but if I couldnt handle that, I shouldnt have put it on a public forum (and probably wouldn't, to be honest - Im fairly private)

I think sometimes we forget just how public the internet is. You have your photo as a profile pic and your post comes up when anyone does a simple google search...just make sure you take care of yourself and don't put anything on here that you cant handle negative comment on...it sounds like you and your daugher are having a tough time at the moment and do you really need any more problems?

I hope you manage to make the cats safe and get some support for your daughter and yourself xxx


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

ok kobi has been to the vets and everything is fine

i have been to the doctors this morning and they have referred her to camhs

i am looking for homes for lexie and kobi. millie will go back to breeder as i have a contract


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## tinky75 (Jul 1, 2012)

kinley said:


> What do you mean something's not right? What are you suggesting. When your going through this situation and trying to sort everything out and trying to reply to hundred people. One liners are pretty much what I could manage!


Hi so many posts in here hard to read them all and reply, did you see my earlier post ?

is this the only time your daughter has 'hurt' the cat? We're other times just chasing her around?

I mentioned that my daughter started playing up for me and eventually told me she thought I loved our cat more than her.

I involve her with things, we go the pet store and she choses collars, toys, treats etc. Perhaps you can sit with her and the cats and reward her for being nice to them?

A child cutting a cats ear is not good, but it doesn't mean the cats need to be removed immediately, you can try and not leave them unsuppervised with her at the moment?

Your daughter will also be taught things like this at school, my daughter had a visit from pets at home at their school and she came home with info on how to look after and be kind to animals.

I mentioned maybe there are children's books on being kind to animals you can get?

I hope you manage to sort out this situation you obviously love your cats.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I have just read thru whole thread  what an awful position to be in - it must be very hard for you right now.... I think in the short term re-homing your cat or keeping him seperated at all times from your daughter would certainly be the best idea until you have got to the bottom of the issues with your daughter - the cats safety needs to be a priority until this can done.

I might get shot down here but I DO NOT think punishing your daughter is the way forward in this instance as there is obviously some hidden issues/problems - one post from you stuck out for me -



kinley said:


> her dad hasnt seen her for a couple of months


I certainly do not wish to presume about your relationship but this could certainly be a factor as to why your daughter is perhaps striking out and hurting those around her - including your cat - she may be only six but kids are not stupid they know when something is up or routines have changed - if she has previously had regular contact with her dad then she will feel this - maybe she is picking up on your vibes and stress if you have recently split?? and she is feeling vulnerable and scared and crying out for attention in some way ?? again im not presuming but I think to just punish without really looking into the reasons WHY is not going to solve your daughters behaviour - involving the RSPCA is as others have said not really addressing the real issue - which you have to find out - and only you can do that - maybe a chat with your doctor ? - tell him your concerns ?

I really hope you get to the bottom of things xxx


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

tinky75 said:


> Hi so many posts in here hard to read them all and reply, did you see my earlier post ?
> 
> is this the only time your daughter has 'hurt' the cat? We're other times just chasing her around?
> 
> ...


she was hurting them before pulling tail, locking them in her bedroom, purposly making them jump, so i called out rspca to assure her how wrong it was and how bad the cats will feel and that mummy can go to court for it. and things improved. although she loved them a little too much at times constant picking up, cuddling, in their faces


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

where can i get support for me having to lose my cats, i love them so much they mean loads to me,they are in fact my best friends. they are there for me when im lonely 

i cant picture life without them, kobi is sat with me now :crying:


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

kinley said:


> where can i get support for me having to lose my cats, i love them so much they mean loads to me,they are in fact my best friends. they are there for me when im lonely
> 
> i cant picture life without them, kobi is sat with me now :crying:


 This forum is the perfect place to get support for losing your cats! It's just not the place to.talk about a child'scruelty towards them and expect 
People to be positive about it.

**hugs for the cats**


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

whats your problem? i havent expected people to be postive about it.

i posted as i really didnt know what else to do


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

i cant imagine here being a great support as i will have to explain over and over why they have to be rehomed


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

kinley said:


> where can i get support for me having to lose my cats, i love them so much they mean loads to me,they are in fact my best friends. they are there for me when im lonely
> 
> i cant picture life without them, kobi is sat with me now :crying:


People here will be a tremendous support - ((()))) people here will help you - well I certainly will!!! the fact you are trying to do the best for the cats and not just hide away from it all is good hun and people here will see that - is there a way the breeder will keep one of them for you for a while ?? but you can go see ??

Must be very hard for you  the fact you rely on your cats for comfort and obviously love them may also be a factor with your daughter - maybe she is a wee bit jealous of that??

xxx


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

auspiciousmind said:


> This forum is the perfect place to get support for losing your cats! It's just not the place to.talk about a child'scruelty towards them and expect
> People to be positive about it.
> 
> **hugs for the cats**


I think we have to look beneath the title CHILDS CRUELTY - no one knows the full facts of this little girls life and I for one WILL talk about her behaviour in a postive way as this IMO is the only way forward for the OP to get to grips with all the problems and help her daughter. Yes this is an animal forum but we are also a family in many respects and help and support each other in all manner of things


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## Endymion (Feb 27, 2011)

Kinley - my heart does go out to you. My cats are my best friends too, I lost my son 11 years ago and do not have any other children, have 2 step children, I do not know what i would do without them

Keep posting here but do not get drawn into arguments about rights or wrongs, I have only been on this forum a few weeks and there seems to be lots of arguments but also lots of support.

Can you work with temporary foster carers for the cats so you and your daughter can still see them whilst your daughter is getting support?


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## Midnight13 (Jun 20, 2012)

Fab for getting the referral! I hope they listen and help properly.

I'm so sorry you're losing your little fur babies  I would be in bits too.


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## tinky75 (Jul 1, 2012)

QUOTE=kinley;1062266086]she was hurting them before pulling tail, locking them in her bedroom, purposly making them jump, so i called out rspca to assure her how wrong it was and how bad the cats will feel and that mummy can go to court for it. and things improved. although she loved them a little too much at times constant picking up, cuddling, in their faces[/QUOTE]

only you know whether or not she would seriously hurt them further, I tell my daughter off for the way she picks the, up I.e. looks like squeezing them but in fact she is just in her way holding them tightly because I've said in the past make sure they don't fall!

She stokes them head to tail and sometimes 'holds' the tail at the end, but I don't think it's an actual pull.

She has locked them in her bedroom but this is to keep them there to play. I just have to keep telling her that if they want to leave her room she is too let them, if they don't want to sit on her lap let them go.

Since she is more involved she has got better, I let her pick out one cat from a litter of 5 when they were 2weeks old.

Again, my gut feeling would be to get the help you have been offered (by doc today) Which is good. With the cats gone you are not able to to teach her, but with them there you can hopefully do so. only you can make the decision if they are in danger or not.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

i understand that and if theres anyway i can support her through thr loss of her cats i will.

the point im trying to get across is that she brought her child into the forum and she was bound to get some critisism for it. 

Kinsley I'm sure if you want support for the loss of your cats explaining that you had to rehome them for their safety without going into.the gory details people will support you through it. after all by rehoming them you have made the sensible and right decision.. you can only be admired for that.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

ive just spoke to millies breeder it hurt so much but she understands and is going to collect millie


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## Endymion (Feb 27, 2011)

kinley said:


> ive just spoke to millies breeder it hurt so much but she understands and is going to collect millie


Im so sorry :-( If you dont think your cats are safe its the best thing but I cant imagine how tough this must be on you xxx


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

kinley said:


> ive just spoke to millies breeder it hurt so much but she understands and is going to collect millie


BIG BIG HUGS ((())))) will she keep her for you until such a time you can have her back ?? I do think you will resolve things hun - stay strong xx


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

like ive just said to someone, it wuld be unfair to have them be fostered as i dont know how long this could take, dahm wont even been in touch for months

and someone i spoke to someone whos daughter is similar and has several diagnosis doesnt have pets for this reason


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I have no doubt you love your cats, it must be really difficult for you but you are doing the right thing. Please let us know how it goes and you can come here for support of course


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

I am sorry to hear about you having to re-home your precious cats, but it is for the best whilst you sort out why your daughter is having problems. She needs your full attention on this to ensure it doesn't develop into something worse. 

Well done for not burying your head in the sand about this like so many other parents tend to do these days.

Incidentally, I thought you had 5 cats. What happened to Rhubarb and Custard?


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

kinley said:


> where can i get support for me having to lose my cats, i love them so much they mean loads to me,they are in fact my best friends. they are there for me when im lonely
> 
> i cant picture life without them, kobi is sat with me now :crying:


Kinley I can't even understand how hard this must be for you but your daughter has hurt your cats and so they are not safe to be together so for the sake of your cats and your daughter you must do the right thing and that is to separate them, you as the adult and owner of these cats you have to put their safety and welfare above your own and wether it is just getting them fostered with a view to coming back to you if or when your daughter has had help or and imo the best option is to find them a safe forever home where they can settle safely and not get chased around or hurt and live a quiet peaceful contented life.

Please I know you are hurting but you have to do the right thing by your cats, what if next time she inflicts even more pain on them, how would you be able to live with yourself knowing that you hadn't kept them safe. You need to concentrate on getting your daughter help and the cats safe.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

rhubarb has kidney diease quite progressed if thats the right words

my daughter was in hospital and rhubarb was booked to go vets so my mum took her to the vets for me but as she went downhill quickly and i was up the hospital every day for over a week she took rhunarb to hers to care for her and custard too, so rhubarb was not too frightened going alone. 

i hadnt dared moved rhurbarb back, plus she disowned me and only kisses my mum now  we was going to let rhubarb pass peacefully at my mums then move custard back, but obviously he will have to stay there now 

thanks for your concern hun


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

kinley said:


> like ive just said to someone, it wuld be unfair to have them be fostered as i dont know how long this could take, dahm wont even been in touch for months
> 
> and someone i spoke to someone whos daughter is similar and has several diagnosis doesnt have pets for this reason


Yes thats true  - very sad ((())) but who knows in a few years time when your daughter is a bit older things may have changed and you might feel the time is right again - in the meantime you can try and teach your daughter all about animals and their care and encourage her love for them - its tough for you right now Im sure but there could be some positives out of this eventually xx


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

MontyMaude said:


> Please I know you are hurting but you have to do the right thing by your cats, what if next time she inflicts even more pain on them, how would you be able to live with yourself knowing that you hadn't kept them safe. You need to concentrate on getting your daughter help and the cats safe.


ths is my point precisly, even if i managed to keep them seperate which would be hard enough as it is, what if one day she did something to them again i would never forgive myself


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Maybe your mum could take Kobi and Lexie too, at least you could still see them, and your daughter could see them for short, supervised times and learn to treat them gently, which would be much more positive than having them all rehomed.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I think you're making the right decision for your cats, I can't imagine how hard it must be for you.
Good luck with getting your referral


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Treaclesmum said:


> Maybe your mum could take Kobi and Lexie too, at least you could still see them, and your daughter could see them for short, supervised times and learn to treat them gently, which would be much more positive than having them all rehomed.


i would love if that was an option but my mum is full up at the moment and must be finding it hard as it is


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Treaclesmum said:


> Maybe your mum could take Kobi and Lexie too, at least you could still see them, and your daughter could see them for short, supervised times and learn to treat them gently, which would be much more positive than having them all rehomed.


I was thinking this too---if she took them short term, then you could try some other things with your daughter in the meantime--perhaps she IS only jealous, or wants attention. You could take her to the shelter and let her see where abused and unwanted animals end up. You could speak with a vet and see if one would talk to her. Instead of giving her a punishment of sitting at the kitchen table, which is boring to her, but hardly addresses the act she committed, then you could show her the consequences of her actions and you'd be spending quality time with her. If she doesn't have a deeper issue (such an anti-social personality, dissociative issues, etc), then maybe this would just bring home to her what she's done and why it's wrong.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

kinley said:


> i would love if that was an option but my mum is full up at the moment and must be finding it hard as it is


worth a try though  are there any other family members who could help out ??


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

just had the call millie is being picked up tonight:crying::crying::crying::crying:


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I was thinking this too---if she took them short term, then you could try some other things with your daughter in the meantime--perhaps she IS only jealous, or wants attention. You could take her to the shelter and let her see where abused and unwanted animals end up. You could speak with a vet and see if one would talk to her. Instead of giving her a punishment of sitting at the kitchen table, which is boring to her, but hardly addresses the act she committed, then you could show her the consequences of her actions and you'd be spending quality time with her. If she doesn't have a deeper issue (such an anti-social personality, dissociative issues, etc), then maybe this would just bring home to her what she's done and why it's wrong.


we have done this we go to the rspca regulary and watch the rspca programs. had the rspca talk to her, but nothing seems to get through i do think its some sort of disorder she is struggling with


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## MominsMummy (Jun 14, 2012)

kinley said:


> just had the call millie is being picked up tonight:crying::crying::crying::crying:


x Virtual Hug x

You are doing the right thing hun. It is in the best interest of your cats. You would feel much worse if something worse happened the next time. Although you will miss them, you wont have to worry about them constantly and it will give you the time to get to the roots of the issue with your daughter.

Good Luck with the referral


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> worth a try though  are there any other family members who could help out ??


unfortunatly not i only have mum nana and cousin

nana is 72 with very old poorly cats

cousin has 3 cats and a new husky


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

i really dont know where to start with finding homes for lexie and kobi thou


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

kinley said:


> i really dont know where to start with finding homes for lexie and kobi thou


Maybe message Kelly-Joy on here?

Or you could add their details on the rescue section on here. 
Maybe a local rescue can offer you some help by carrying out a homecheck & instead of taking money for them their new family could make a donation to said rescue. 
Are the cats both neutered? As it's important to make sure they don't get into the wrong hands of people who would exploit them.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

kobi is but lexie isnt, lexie has always been tiny and i had been worried having her put under anasthetic while she was so small. now the nuetering voucher has ran out


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

kinley said:


> kobi is but lexie isnt, lexie has always been tiny and i had been worried having her put under anasthetic while she was so small. now the nuetering voucher has ran out


Hmm, that's tricky, could you get another? I don't know much about the vouchers I'm afraid

I know many members on here would be excellent homes for her if they offered, but there are a few on here who have exploited unneutered animals for their own gain in the past, so please be careful


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

i will try to get her done first


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinley, I really feel for you, it must be heartbreaking having to face parting with your beloved cats. I think you are being very brave indeed, but I am sure you are doing the right thing making their safety a priority. 

As you say, you would feel terrible if your daughter did something else to one of the cats. And if it turns out your daughter, for some reason, cannot control her urges, then it would also be unfair on her to leave vulnerable animals within her range for her to target. 

I think you will get lots of support from FMs here, if you need comfort when your cats have gone to their new homes. 

Be brave hun, we are here for you


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

kinley said:


> just had the call millie is being picked up tonight:crying::crying::crying::crying:


(((Hugs))) I know how hard it is to rehome a much loved pet. I had to let opie's brother go last year. It wasn't easy but it was the best thing for both my boys. You are rehoming for your cats safety so don't worry about having to explain yourself to faceless strangers on a computer screen. I don't have kids but I understand that your daughter must be your priority. Hopefully it won't take you long to find good homes or rescue space for kobi and lexi. Good luck with the referral.


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

kinley said:


> i really dont know where to start with finding homes for lexie and kobi thou


Can you make a rehome thread on here - I'm in notts so have sent out an APB to my Midland cat lovers to see if anyone has room.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Perhaps rehoming one cat might make her realise you've being serious?


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I haven't read all the posts on here, I have just seen the first two pages. 

I hate any cruelty whether by a child or adult, if the child has a mental problem and doesn't understand right from wrong she really shouldn't be around animals. I personally would rehome the child...I much prefer cats but seriously though, I would get homes for all your cats for their own safety and for their own happiness. Someone out there would love them and care for them and give them the love they deserve.

It will be hard for you I know, good luck and I wish you well in finding them all loving forever homes.


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## polishrose (Oct 26, 2011)

After reading this thread, this is my opinion. I have both kids and pets. My youngest child is 2 and my oldest is 17. Not one of them would ever try to cut a cats ear. The fur maybe. But never the ear. Even the youngest knows that scissors hurt. It's not normal behaviour for a child. Pulling tails, pinching, hugging too tightly...this is what children under the age of 4 might do until they realise it's not nice. But deliberately getting scissors and cutting an ear would worry me enough to sit in a doctors surgery and insist they do something to help. it's not clear from the thread but was she not at school? Or was this before or after school? Maybe she's getting some nasty ideas from someone there. Or something on tv perhaps? 
I would rehome all the pets Urgently. You can't risk her doing something to them again.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

millie has just left, i cried so hard and i feel so numb


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

kinley said:


> millie has just left, i cried so hard and i feel so numb


Aww no I hope that maybe you can stay in touch with the breeder and maybe be able to get Millie back later on?? Maybe it will take a few months or even a couple of years, but I really hope that your daughter can learn from this experience and grow out of her problems so that she can learn to treat animals with respect xx


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

I know it's hard, but you are doing the right thing. Stay positive ((hugs))


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Sending you positive thoughts  this must have been difficult but nonetheless the right decision. X


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

but thats my fluffy millie bear, who loves playing with my bobbles, and will mieow in jealousy if i stroke one of the others before her, who will pinch my spot in the bed when i pop to the loo, my gorgeous millie that was opening up with every passing month and loved sitting on my lap and would make me turn the bath tap on so i she could have a play and lick the water

i know its right but it hurts so much

i dont know how i'll cope when i find homes for the others


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

kinley said:


> but thats my fluffy millie bear, who loves playing with my bobbles, and will mieow in jealousy if i stroke one of the others before her, who will pinch my spot in the bed when i pop to the loo, my gorgeous millie that was opening up with every passing month and loved sitting on my lap and would make me turn the bath tap on so i she could have a play and lick the water
> 
> i know its right but it hurts so much
> 
> i dont know how i'll cope when i find homes for the others


You will cope no matter how hard because your daughter needs you to cope, so you can find the strength to get her sorted out.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

I can't offer any advice other than to enjoy and fuss your other babies until they are also rehomed. No matter how much it hurts just remember you are doing this for them.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

I know its hard, but keep strong, you know you want the best and whats safest for your furbabies xxx

On a different note, if you are crying, which i know i would be in your position, is your daughter around, has she seen how upset you are, hows she reacting/behaving xxx


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I am sorry but I cannot get my head around this. I still dont understand why the cats are being rehomed, dont understand why the child hurting the cat results in 3 cats being rehomed. I dont believe the child has only just started behaving badly, why does the OP have 3 cats? Was the child not spiteful to the first or second cat, or only after the third cat arrived? I do not believe a 30 year old woman cannot manage the cats and the child, you have had the child 6 years - only just become naughty? You should have never got the cats.:mad2:


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Rose that is unhelpful.

Clearly her daughter's behaviour has escalated to the point where she now cannot be trusted with them.

She is rehoming for the safety of the cats. She should not be criticised for this, she needs to be supported at a difficult time.

Would you rather she keeps all cats then posts in a few weeks that her daughter has hurt a cat again?


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2012)

rose said:


> I am sorry but I cannot get my head around this. I still dont understand why the cats are being rehomed, dont understand why the child hurting the cat results in 3 cats being rehomed. I dont believe the child has only just started behaving badly, why does the OP have 3 cats? Was the child not spiteful to the first or second cat, or only after the third cat arrived? I do not believe a 30 year old woman cannot manage the cats and the child, you have had the child 6 years - only just become naughty? You should have never got the cats.:mad2:


Sorry but that is really not helpful at the moment, telling the op she should never have got the cats is completely besides the point.......


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

welshjet said:


> I know its hard, but keep strong, you know you want the best and whats safest for your furbabies xxx
> 
> On a different note, if you are crying, which i know i would be in your position, is your daughter around, has she seen how upset you are, hows she reacting/behaving xxx


She's knows I'm upset but she doesn't seem bothered  and she was upset when Millie went and afterwards when I went upstairs she was asleep


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2012)

rose said:


> Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


But she isn't having kittens 
This is a horrible situation to be in and I can't imagine the op ever thought that her daughter would have harmed the cats. It isn't ok that 3 cats are being rehomed however the op is being responsible by thinking of her cats safety and concentrating on helping find out why her daughter is behaving this way..


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

rose said:


> Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


They came to live with me around a similar time. And if I thought for minute she would end up doing anything to them I wouldnt have got them.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

rose said:


> Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


I don't think you can compare this situation to someone who just lets their cat make more kittens to go into an already saturated population of moggie cats.

What she's doing is in the best interests of the cats for their welfare AND for the OP & her daughter, so she can get the support she needs, not some eejit wanting to experience the 'miracle of birth' or make a bit of cash off their pet or whatever excuse they come up with for breeding.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

rose said:


> Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


How do you know the OP's background???  :confused1:

I remember she got ONE kitten last year, and then another to keep it company (lexie and kobi), then as she loved cats so much she felt she could offer a home to more cats, so perhapsthere was not enough time for her to see whether her daughter would take to them, but she thought things were going well. Maybe in hindsight, she should have waited a little longer to see how the child would react to 2 cats, before introducing others, but if everything seemed ok, how was she to know???????????????????? :confused1: :confused1:


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

rose said:


> Ah no, but if she had let her mogggie cat have kittens, she would have been shot down in flames for being irresponsible, but now having 3 grown cats that need rehoming is ok? The child was kind to the 1st, and 2nd so she got a 3rd???


It really isn't a comparable situation.... If the OP is on here in two months with two new kittens maybe then you can make the comment that she shouldn't have got them! Although it seems clear that she takes this seriously and will not be doing such a thing.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

rose said:


> I am sorry but I cannot get my head around this. I still dont understand why the cats are being rehomed, dont understand why the child hurting the cat results in 3 cats being rehomed. I dont believe the child has only just started behaving badly, why does the OP have 3 cats? Was the child not spiteful to the first or second cat, or only after the third cat arrived? I do not believe a 30 year old woman cannot manage the cats and the child, you have had the child 6 years - only just become naughty? You should have never got the cats.:mad2:


What choice does she have? She can't exactly rehome the child.

It's a dreadful situation; one I count my lucky stars I will never be in. But rehoming the cats is essential for their safety. Granted, children don't develop behavioural problems overnight, but surely most parents would be in a state of denial for some time? It's probably taken an incident such as this one to make the OP realise what her daughter is capable of.

Personally, I can't see any other option. The daughter needs help, the cats need to be safe. Simple.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Millie's breeder just text to say Millie is settled in the spare bedroom and rubbed against her before eating her food


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## Kah (Jul 20, 2012)

Sorry to hear about what's been happening and hope things work out for you. I have read the whole thread but didn't feel I could add anything useful but just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

kinley 
glad to hear the other cat is settling ok  i know doing thr right thing doesn`t make it any easier to do

like another lady said is there anyway you can get them back in the future ?

i think your daughter has learnt the very hard way the consequences off her actions, and i think you`ve dealt with it the best you could

again a big cuddle for you, i hope your daughter is okay too, regardless what has happened she is still just a child xx


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

Kinley, I really do feel for you and can only imagine how you are feeling. Please know that you are doing the right thing for your cats and your daughter xx

Send Kelly-Joy a pm, she may be able to help with Kobi and Lexie.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

if I were dealing with my kids abusing my pets, I know who I would be rehoming and wouldn't be my pets. My children would learn the consequences of their actions very quickly.


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## tinky75 (Jul 1, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> if I were dealing with my kids abusing my pets, I know who I would be rehoming and wouldn't be my pets. My children would learn the consequences of their actions very quickly.


Not sure if you have read the whole thread but I don't think the cats were in any immediate danger.

OP I am sorry you are going through this. You obviously care for your cats and your daughter very much you do what you feel is right.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> if I were dealing with my kids abusing my pets, I know who I would be rehoming and wouldn't be my pets. My children would learn the consequences of their actions very quickly.


Its clear the child has issues so whilst her Mother gets the help needed I think it best the cats are responsibly rehomed.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I am stilll not clear about what the previous instances of "abuse" were that the RSPCA were called? Were the previous incidents "normal" cat-pestering behaviour (I remember as a child harrassing an aunt's cats by trying to dress them up, put them in a pram etc until they got annoyed and my aunt and mom told me off). I remember my mom also "phoning" the police when I was naughty to give me a fright. 
This is a long thread but it isn't clear how systematic the abuse is, how long it has been going on, why the RSPCA was phoned previously. It is very difficult to judge a situation like this with so few clear details. I worry about the future as well. This isn't the last time the child will be interacting with animals. From the description it sounds like there was intense drama, cats being rehomed, shouting, screaming, crying, etc. Wouldn't this result in the child associating cats/animals with unpleasant and negative feelings? How is "rehabilitation" of the child going to occur in these circumstances?


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## AlfiesArk (Mar 10, 2011)

Kinley,


Sending massively huge hugs for you, even though it's painful what you are doing is in your cats and even your daughters best interests. Something is obvioulsy not quite right somewhere and by removing the cats from the situation it will give you time and opportunity to get to the route of the problems. And please don't think for one minute that we won't be here to support you!!! Regardless of the issue you know those that understand you will be here to help! Please ignore the hurtful comments that some have chosen to post, and try not to rise to them as this just seems to encourage them to keep on.
You know in your heart that this is the best for all in the current situation and your PF friends will be here for you. Also if you look on line there are various places that do deal with loss of a pet... I know in most cases this is bereavement or general loss but what your feeling is the same.

More massive hugs your way hun.
Em xx


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I really feel for you and just want to let you know that I am thinking of you xxx

Millies breeder sounds wonderful and understanding. I bet she will keep in touch with you and let you know how she is getting on. If you feel in a position to take her back somewhere down the line once you have got things sorted, it would definitely be worth talking to her about it.


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

Lexie and Kobi have just gone, it's more painful than anything I've known. I feel so empty


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

Wow, you managed to find them homes very quickly. 

Hope they went to good homes, especially as Lexi is not spayed.

Will you be kept updated on them? At least that would relieve some of the trauma x


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

kinley said:


> Lexie and Kobi have just gone, it's more painful than anything I've known. I feel so empty


How sad, where have they gone to? Will you be able to keep in touch and still see them? :confused1:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sending a hug ((()) - I understand how painful for you it must be but now you need to concentrate on your little girl.
What has her reaction been? Does she understand why they have gone?


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## kinley (Oct 30, 2011)

The RSPCA took them for me

My daughter wasn't bothered last night when Millie went but she will be distraught when she finds out kobi has gone

She understands why but I don't think that will make it an easier


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh Kinley, I am so sorry.....it's really awful, and my heart aches and aches for you! 

Is there any chance you will be still be able to see the cats, or would that make it harder to bear do you think? I would think it might help if you could see them settling and happy in a new home? 

I know it is a dreadful, unbearable loss for you, but all you can do to comfort yourself by knowing you have sent them to a safer place than your home is right now. 

I do hope you manage to get a proper diagnosis for your daughter. It seems to me likely from the details you have given she is not just being a naughty girl, but has certain behavioural issues that may need professional help. I hope the right help is forthcoming. 

Thinking of you. Please keep posting whenever you need to talk.


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

oh kinley i am so sorry  i really don`t know what to say other than this must be the hardest thing you`ve had to do im sure.

im so sorry any time you need a chat you are welcome to message me xxxxxxxxx


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I think that no-one will deny the urgency of having your daughter properly assessed after what has happened. Not just the 'abuse', which may still be just a very childish impulse, but mainly her reactions afterwards:
showing no remorse, just being angry at being punished, admitting she wouldn't do this to a child 'because a child would scream'(i.e. she'd be found out).

I am not a psychiatrist, but it sounds like everything she thinks and does is just very much centered around _her_, without any thought of other people's and animals' feelings or the consequences of her deeds, much more so than you would expect from a nearly 7 year-old.

There may be lots of reasons for this, you already mentioned the possibility of ADHD and AS, which, apparently, have both been ruled out.
There is an alarming lack of empathy in her thought processes - except for herself. So for her own sake it is imperative the reason is discovered, so she can get the help she needs.

She is very young to develop a borderline personality disorder, but it might be the direction this is going to develop if she doesn't get any help.
Borderline is usually the result of psychological trauma in childhood. 
Not necessarily anything obvious like abuse, sometimes it is far more subtle, bullying at school and lack of understanding and support from the parents, or an extreme feeling of insecurity or neglect as a result of parents having affairs or splitting up. Some children get it into their heads they are to blame for a divorce, and keep punishing themselves by doing things they know they will be severely punished for, or which will make them lose something precious....

Did you and your ex have violent quarrels, did she take your splitting up extremely hard, or did she feel extremely insecure because of the stress in your relationship?

Mind you, I am NOT trying to imply you did something wrong, sometimes things just happen as they happen, and no-one can forsee what the impact on a child may be.....
I am just trying to help you think of things that _may_ have happened, which your daughter might have perceived as traumatizing, causing her to act like this....


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