# American Staffordshire Terrier RE: Banned breed in UK



## Hoppy-Rocks

Hi All.

I have not been on here for a good couple of years but am in desperate need for some advice, help and information from all you friendly people here, I've already sought some help but there's still some grey areas which we're still not sure upon.

Here goes the story.....

My friend who currently resides in Spain is looking to relocate to England in the very near future but will only come over if his 2 and a half year old Pedigree American Staffordshire Terrier is allowed into the Country as well. I have already contacted DDAWatch whom have responded by saying that it is a banned breed but there are still conflicting views on this.

The Dog Horus has all the following: An EU Pet Passport, Dangerous Dog Licence, is part of the census in Spain, has been microchipped and has had all the vaccines done as well.

He is also a Champion Dog in Spain in the Allianz Canine Worldwide Espana Competition and has been awarded best in breed and best in group and has an Canine Exposure Report certificate to say his temperament, well being etc is in excellent condition.

I'll attach photos for further viewing if it is of any help.

The questions we really need answering are as follows:

1) Is this specific breed type banned in the UK?
2) If it is a banned breed with all this relevant information with him being a champion dog, well trained and excellent report record would the Dog in question ever be allowed to enter the UK?

If anyone can help us we would be so very grateful. We are awaiting a responses as well from DEFRA and Cooper & Co Doglaw but any further help here and we would be eternally grateful!


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## Kc Mac

He is a beautiful dog :001_wub:

Trevor Cooper would be my first call and of course Defra are the people I would recommend contacting which you have 

The problem with 'the law' is it is as much about measurements as breed, although what is common are American Pit Bull Terriers being dual registered as American Staffordshire Terriers. Therefore as far as uk law goes, they are types of the same breed 

If in the slight chance he is allowed into the country, I assume he would have to be registered as a banned dog - here's a link to the requirements https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

Which would your friend want to put his dog through that and still live with the possibility of the dog being removed at some stage?

A link from Defra and my local police which state the same - an American Staffordshire Terrier being 'a pit bull type'

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/ddogslawyouleaflet.pdf

Thames Valley Police - Dangerous dogs

Basically after all that, yes he would come under a 'banned breed' as far as I can see which means highly unlikely he would be allowed over the borders.

I hope you get helpful responses from Treveor Cooper and Defra


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## sezeelson

Specifically, he will be seized as a pit bull type which is what American Staffordshire Bull terrier 'is' 

I'm not entirely sure of the fact he's imported into the country. But, if he was already here, he would be held in police kennels while he is assessed. If he it has a sound temperament, he will be exempted and added to the register. 

He would then be castrated and tattooed. He must be muzzled and on lead when in public at all times and must have liability insurance. There is also a yearly fee. 

If he fails the assessment however, he risks being pts. Personally, I wouldn't do it myself.


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## Lizz1155

Just to clarify (or possibly confuse the issue further) - there is different regulation on "dangerous dogs" depending on whether you're in England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland. 

England has a list of "banned breeds", which includes Pit Bull Terriers. As far as I can tell (after a quick google), Scotland does not have a list of banned breeds - just regulation requiring owners to be in control of their dogs. In Ireland, there is a list of dogs (including Pit Bull Terriers) who have to be leashed and muzzled when in public (but it is legal to own them). (I may have gotten this wrong, so anyone feel free to correct this)

There are not one set of rules which cover the whole of the UK.


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## Sled dog hotel

Hoppy-Rocks said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I have not been on here for a good couple of years but am in desperate need for some advice, help and information from all you friendly people here, I've already sought some help but there's still some grey areas which we're still not sure upon.
> 
> Here goes the story.....
> 
> My friend who currently resides in Spain is looking to relocate to England in the very near future but will only come over if his 2 and a half year old Pedigree American Staffordshire Terrier is allowed into the Country as well. I have already contacted DDAWatch whom have responded by saying that it is a banned breed but there are still conflicting views on this.
> 
> The Dog Horus has all the following: An EU Pet Passport, Dangerous Dog Licence, is part of the census in Spain, has been microchipped and has had all the vaccines done as well.
> 
> He is also a Champion Dog in Spain in the Allianz Canine Worldwide Espana Competition and has been awarded best in breed and best in group and has an Canine Exposure Report certificate to say his temperament, well being etc is in excellent condition.
> 
> I'll attach photos for further viewing if it is of any help.
> 
> The questions we really need answering are as follows:
> 
> 1) Is this specific breed type banned in the UK?
> 2) If it is a banned breed with all this relevant information with him being a champion dog, well trained and excellent report record would the Dog in question ever be allowed to enter the UK?
> 
> *If anyone can help us we would be so very grateful. We are awaiting a responses as well from DEFRA and Cooper & Co Doglaw but any further help here and we would be eternally grateful *!


Your best and safest bet would be to obviously await confirmation from the Doglaw specialists or defra to be sure.

On the listed banned breeds as regards to defras guide to enforcers on dog law they say the following:-

Offences (prohibited breeds or types)
 Section 1(1) sets out which types of dogs the prohibitions in the sub-sections apply to  namely
Pit Bull Terriers (PBTs)9, Japanese Tosas, Dogo Argentinos and Fila Brazilieros.
 Section 1(2) prohibits the breeding, sale, exchange, advertising, or gift of any dog listed in
section 1(1). It also prohibits such dogs from being in a public place without being muzzled and
kept on a lead. Furthermore, it also prohibits the abandoning or allowing to stray of such dogs.
 Section 1(3) prohibits the ownership of any type listed under s1(1) unless it is exempted on the
Index of Exempted Dogs as per s1(5).

At the moment though everything seems centered around identification of certain characteristics for type based on the following again from Defra guidance to enforcers.

Identifying Pit Bull Terrier (PBT) types
The following information is aimed to provide a starting point for identifying Pit Bull
Terrier (PBT) types. It should not be seen as an exhaustive list of characteristics and
further expert advice and guidance must be sought at an early stage.
There are no photographs provided to assist with this as these animals can look very different yet
have a substantial number of characteristics present and be considered a PBT.
If you cannot obtain advice from your local DLO and need assistance in identifying an alleged s1
dog you may contact the Status Dogs Unit at the Metropolitan Police at [email protected]

The standard used to identify a PBT is set out in the American Dog Breeders Association standard of
conformation as published in the Pit Bull Gazette, vol 1, issue 3 1977  please refer to this for the full
description and also relevant cases20 as this is only a brief overview. Although the law does not require
a suspected PBT to fit the description perfectly, it does require there to be a substantial number of
characteristics present so that it can be considered more PBT than any other type of dog.
 When first viewing the dog it should appear square from the side, and its height to the top of
its shoulders should be the same distance as from the front of its shoulder to the rear point of
its hip.
 Its height to weight ratio should be in proportion.
 Its coat should be short and bristled, (single coated).
 Its head should appear to be wedge shaped when viewed from the side and top but rounded
when viewed from the front. The head should be around 2/3 width of shoulders and 25 per
cent wider at cheeks than at the base of the skull (this is due to the cheek muscles).
 The distance from the back of the head to between the eyes should be about equal to the
distance from between the eyes to the tip of its nose.
 The dog should have a good depth from the top of head to bottom of jaw and a straight
box-like muzzle.
 Its eyes should be small and deep-set, triangular when viewed from the side and elliptical
from front.
 Its shoulders should be wider than the rib cage at the eighth rib.
 Its elbows should be flat with its front legs running parallel to the spine.
 Its forelegs should be heavy and solid and nearly twice the thickness of the hind legs just below
the hock.
 The rib cage should be deep and spring straight out from the spine, it should be elliptical in
cross section tapering at the bottom and not barrel chested.
 It should have a tail that hangs down like an old fashioned pump handle to around the hock.
 It should have a broad hip that allows good attachment of muscles in the hindquarters and
hind legs.
 Its knee joint should be in the upper third of the dogs rear leg, and the bones below that
should appear light, fine and springy.
 Overall the dog should have an athletic appearance, the standard makes no mention of ears,
colour, height, or weight.

Full Guide to enforcers on link.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/dogs-guide-enforcers.pdf


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## Sled dog hotel

Also found this on another defra website as regards to "Type"

Legislation

Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 prohibits four types of dog:
•the Pit Bull Terrier
•the Japanese tosa
•the Dogo Argentino
•the Fila Brasileiro

It is important to note that, in the UK, dangerous dogs are classified by "type", not by breed label. This means that whether a dog is considered dangerous, and therefore prohibited, will depend on a judgment about its physical characteristics, and whether they match the description of a prohibited 'type'. This assessment of the physical characteristics is made by a court.

The 1991 Act was amended by the Dangerous Dogs (Amendment) Act 1997. The 1997 Act removed the mandatory destruction order provisions of the 1991 Act by giving the courts discretion on sentencing, and re-opened the Index of Exempted Dogs for those prohibited dogs which the courts consider would not pose a risk to the public. Only courts can direct that a dog can be placed on the list of exempted dogs.

ARCHIVE: Defra, UK - Dangerous dogs

There is more on registered and exempted dogs resister on the following link.
http://www.endangereddogs.com/DDARegistered&ExemptedDogs.htm#IED


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## Snoringbear

Hoppy-Rocks said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I have not been on here for a good couple of years but am in desperate need for some advice, help and information from all you friendly people here, I've already sought some help but there's still some grey areas which we're still not sure upon.
> 
> Here goes the story.....
> 
> My friend who currently resides in Spain is looking to relocate to England in the very near future but will only come over if his 2 and a half year old Pedigree American Staffordshire Terrier is allowed into the Country as well. I have already contacted DDAWatch whom have responded by saying that it is a banned breed but there are still conflicting views on this.
> 
> The Dog Horus has all the following: An EU Pet Passport, Dangerous Dog Licence, is part of the census in Spain, has been microchipped and has had all the vaccines done as well.
> 
> He is also a Champion Dog in Spain in the Allianz Canine Worldwide Espana Competition and has been awarded best in breed and best in group and has an Canine Exposure Report certificate to say his temperament, well being etc is in excellent condition.
> 
> I'll attach photos for further viewing if it is of any help.
> 
> The questions we really need answering are as follows:
> 
> 1) Is this specific breed type banned in the UK?
> 2) If it is a banned breed with all this relevant information with him being a champion dog, well trained and excellent report record would the Dog in question ever be allowed to enter the UK?
> 
> If anyone can help us we would be so very grateful. We are awaiting a responses as well from DEFRA and Cooper & Co Doglaw but any further help here and we would be eternally grateful!


Not much to add to the above points, but the dog would be considered pitbull-type and therefore illegal. The paperwork won't make any difference in saving the dog either. Even if for some reason, the dog did get into the country without issue, the owner would always have the concern of him being seized hanging over them. Cropped ears would stand out, too as it's illegal here. Personally, I wouldn't move over.


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## Hoppy-Rocks

Thanks for all the advice so far guys it's much appreciated! 

Spoke to defra earlier who said amstaffs aren't a recognised breed over here and fall under the pitbull type breed category.
Chances are he would be seized at border control and not to take the risk bringing him over.
And most the documents he has and awards he has won aren't going to be recognised over here in the UK. 

So next step we don't know, my friend knows an international dog trainer who knows a lot of lawyers across the World and we'll also await a response from Cooper & Co but please do keep any more information coming this way, we are so grateful!


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## Blitz

Lizz1155 said:


> Just to clarify (or possibly confuse the issue further) - there is different regulation on "dangerous dogs" depending on whether you're in England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland.
> 
> England has a list of "banned breeds", which includes Pit Bull Terriers. As far as I can tell (after a quick google), Scotland does not have a list of banned breeds - just regulation requiring owners to be in control of their dogs. In Ireland, there is a list of dogs (including Pit Bull Terriers) who have to be leashed and muzzled when in public (but it is legal to own them). (I may have gotten this wrong, so anyone feel free to correct this)
> 
> There are not one set of rules which cover the whole of the UK.


I think you will find that at least Scotland still has the ban in place.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/254430/0114020.pdf

It is well worth reading through section 2 as well as, if policed properly and if owners and dogs reported, it could make a huge difference to out of control dogs who are harassing other dogs.


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## Mihaela P

Hello

We are in the same situation 
We want to bring our lovely 12 years old amstaff from Italy and we are desperate as we've been told that amstaff are not recognised as a breed in uk and it will be categorised as a pit bull
We were wondering if you have managed to bring your in the uk

Many thanks
Mihaela


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## Muze

I wouldn't risk is, especially with cropped ears and a pedigree. 

Almost certain to be considered illegal, why put the dog at risk?

I know someone with one in Wales, but they brought it in illegally from Ireland


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## broxi3781

Hi,
I am in Northern Ireland, and I know there are several pitbulls/ Amstaffs, and it easy enough to get one into the country via The Republic of Ireland, but you would live everyday with the threat of the dog being seized, impounded for months or years awaiting trial ( this happened here not too long ago) and then destroyed if determined to be a pit bull terrier. Personally I would not attempt it.

I desperately wanted to adopt one a few years back. I knew the owner very well, as a former member of my youth group and cared very deeply about the boy. He was dying and wanted his dog to have a good home. I liked the dog, I knew it was 100% safe with children, but was afraid to take it and live with the fear of being taken from us at anytime and breaking my children's hearts. I was fortunate enough to find a rescue in Southern Ireland willing to send someone up to collect him. We were just in time. He was reported and they came to take the poor dog two days before the rescue arrived, but learning the circumstances the animal control officer said he would leave it a few days, if the animal was removed from the country they would let it go. It still annoys me. I know he went to a good home, but I wish he could have remained with his owner until the very end, offering love and comfort, and I know his owner would have been happier to have seen him left with me - still I wouldn't have my Reznov now if I had taken him.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but if you do find any loophole, please let us know.


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## Sarah H

I've not got any more to add really, hopefully you'll get a detailed idea from the lawyers.

I would say that just looking at him (he's gorgeous by the way), that he'd be classified a pit bull type. I don't know if your friend would want to risk it, unless he had assurances that the dog would go through the exemption procedure when arriving in the UK, and even then he would have to pass their tests or would be killed.


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## Dudley Haydock

I'm sorry to say that, judging on appearance alone, Horus would likely not pass the sundry test requirements. But I have recently understand the police can do a DNA test. If it shows little or none of an aggressive gene, it might bring about favourable permit for a highly regulated entry. The downside is, as I understand it, that if the DNA test produces evidence of an aggressive gene, the dog will be put down. Once again I am sorry it is not good news. I live in South Australia and have an AST.


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## Happy Paws2

Not a chance I'd like to take with my dog. If they got the dog here some bright spark would think it was a banned breed and the police would be brought in, then who knows what would happen.


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## SusieRainbow

this thread is over 2 years old !


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## Happy Paws2

Oh... never looked at the date


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## SusieRainbow

You just saw Staffordshire Terrier in the title ?


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## Blitz

Dudley Haydock said:


> I'm sorry to say that, judging on appearance alone, Horus would likely not pass the sundry test requirements. But I have recently understand the police can do a DNA test. If it shows little or none of an aggressive gene, it might bring about favourable permit for a highly regulated entry. The downside is, as I understand it, that if the DNA test produces evidence of an aggressive gene, the dog will be put down. Once again I am sorry it is not good news. I live in South Australia and have an AST.


What on earth is an aggressive gene!


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## Burrowzig

Blitz said:


> What on earth is an aggressive gene!


Something that doesn't exist as such. There are genes that regulate how much adrenaline a dog would produce in a stressful situation for instance, but that's something else and I'm not at all sure the genes are identified to that degree.


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## Blitz

Burrowzig said:


> Something that doesn't exist as such. There are genes that regulate how much adrenaline a dog would produce in a stressful situation for instance, but that's something else and I'm not at all sure the genes are identified to that degree.


You missed my sarcasm I think. It would be wonderful if there was an aggressive gene, just think violent criminals could be genetically modified.


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## leashedForLife

QUOTE,
...recently [I heard] the police can do a DNA test. If it shows little or none of an aggressive gene, waah-waah-waah.
...if the DNA test [is + for] an aggressive gene, the dog [is euthed].
/QUOTE
.
There's no single "aggressive gene" anyone can test for, & there's no DNA-test for aggro.
.
Yes, aggro is highly heritable; so is timidity, but there's no 'timid gene', either.
Fearful behavior is on a spectrum; utterly fearless dogs would also be dead dogs at a young age, as they'd do insane things that would be fatal.
Similarly, utterly non-aggro dogs would be unwanted & would be perfect victims for abusive barstewards, as they wouldn't even defend themselves from violent assaults.
.
it's not aggro per se that ppl object to; it's INAPROPOS aggro, directed at someone who's done nothing to justify an aggressive response.
.
there *are* justified bites - meaning bites that were provoked, bites "with good cause" / sound reasons to bite.
Self-defense is one such.
Any living being will defend their own life, & their own person from harm, & must be permitted to do so.
Defense of young, protecting family or friends from threat, protecting territory / one's home or property, are also JUSTIFIED.
Similarly, a dog who is teased, or in pain / badly frightened, has legitimate grounds to bite, as there's a perceived threat to their safety & well-being.
.
.
dogs are in the unenviable position of impossible expectations; they're never spozed to bite a child, even when the litttle monster is tormenting them mercilessly & they cannot escape; they're always expected to bite the burglar, even if the dog in Q is an under-5# Chihuahua or an 18-YO nearly-toothless mutt with cataracts blueing both eyes.
They're spozed to intuit bad intentions & screen our dates as prospective mates; they're spozed to selflessly rescue dam*fools who throw themselves into harm's way.

Why should any intelligent animal commit likely suicide to possibly rescue some dimwit with a death-wish? -
And just how is a dog going to foretell a happy marriage on 1st acquaintance with a random date?
These are ridiculously enormous burdens to put on dogs, who aren't telepaths or Gypsy fortune-tellers, & Lassie, forever saving eejit Timmy from the well / the mineshaft / the grizzly bear / the flooding river, WAS AN ACTOR WITH A SCRIPT.
Any real dog would have concluded that either Timmy wanted to die & should be allowed to suicide in peace, or was too dam*ed dumb to live, & ought to be culled for public safety before he reached breeding age & sired more reckless dingbats.
.
.
nobody can DNA-test for aggro; we *can* temperament-test for a sound behavioral response, but different breeds are not expected to all score identically; the American Temp-Test Society doesn't expect a Dachshund to score the same as a Dutch Shepherd, nor a Beagle to score identically to a Bouvier. Dogs are bred for wildly-varying purposes, & expecting all the over-600 breeds & landraces of dogs to behave the same way under the same circumstances is silly.
.
of course, so is dressing one's dog as a bridesmaid & having her carry the bridal gown's train, or making one's dog best man & having him carry the wedding-ring on a satin pillow, but folks have done both.  
.
.
.


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## Burrowzig

Blitz said:


> You missed my sarcasm I think. It would be wonderful if there was an aggressive gene, just think violent criminals could be genetically modified.


I didn't miss the sarcasm, but thought it deserved a better answer, as there clearly are heritable factors in aggression.


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## Blitz

Burrowzig said:


> I didn't miss the sarcasm, but thought it deserved a better answer, as there clearly are heritable factors in aggression.


oh good, I thought I must have sounded a bit dim. It is an interesting subject.


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## bluesy76

Hi,

I'm in the exact same situation as the person starting this post. I've talked to Defra, dog lawyers and dog experts and it comes down to the fact that if your dog looks about 80% type (muscular, square head, straight front legs, thin tail, rose ears and the rest of it) then you run the risk of your pet being taken away and being destroyed. End of story. He can be the sweetest and most affable guy in the world but this is a law based on appearance only, not even breed. If your dog was NOT brought from overseas then you can appeal and based on your dog's background and behaviour it can be exempt. It's stupid and unfair to say the least but it is what it is.

I've had no recourse but to leave my boy in Spain after living with him for six years and visit as often as I can which is painful.

Having said all this I do have a question to which I haven't found an answer yet: If you certify your dog as a therapy dog, will it be exempt from the ban?


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## Doggiedelight

Stay in lovely spain. This country is shit anyway!


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## Sarah H

bluesy76 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm in the exact same situation as the person starting this post. I've talked to Defra, dog lawyers and dog experts and it comes down to the fact that if your dog looks about 80% type (muscular, square head, straight front legs, thin tail, rose ears and the rest of it) then you run the risk of your pet being taken away and being destroyed. End of story. He can be the sweetest and most affable guy in the world but this is a law based on appearance only, not even breed. If your dog was NOT brought from overseas then you can appeal and based on your dog's background and behaviour it can be exempt. It's stupid and unfair to say the least but it is what it is.
> 
> I've had no recourse but to leave my boy in Spain after living with him for six years and visit as often as I can which is painful.
> 
> Having said all this I do have a question to which I haven't found an answer yet: If you certify your dog as a therapy dog, will it be exempt from the ban?


I don't know about the overseas stuff, you definitely can get people to write references for your dog, I did for my friend's seized pit bull 'type'. So surely being a certified therapy dog you've a good case to give the dog exemption, rather than destruction. (But dog will need to be on lead and muzzled in public etc).


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## smokeybear

Blitz said:


> You missed my sarcasm I think. It would be wonderful if there was an aggressive gene, just think violent criminals could be genetically modified.


See MAOA and the Warrior Gene, current research is looking at if there is such a thing in dogs and are we selecting for this ie for the show ring with the "look at me" stance............... tis an interesting subject


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## Rafa

Interesting.

When I very first began showing PRTs, a lot of the 'Terrier Men', crossed Lakeland into theirs, as they would 'square up' to other dogs in the ring, making them quite eye catching to the judge.

I'm not sure why, but the little buggers always did it.


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## Amanda hammond1

Hey I am the same I have a american staffordshire and someone report me haveing a banned dog the police came to my flat and looked at my dog and sized him and soon said you are fine he is not a banned dog and I live in the uk


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## simplysardonic

Amanda hammond1 said:


> Hey I am the same I have a american staffordshire and someone report me haveing a banned dog the police came to my flat and looked at my dog and sized him and soon said you are fine he is not a banned dog and I live in the uk


You have been very lucky then, unfortunately a dog classed as an AmStaff would still fit the 'type' so they are at high risk of being seized.


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## Amanda hammond1

simplysardonic said:


> You have been very lucky then, unfortunately a dog classed as an AmStaff would still fit the 'type' so they are at high risk of being seized.


 He was seized up they measured how tall he was


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## simplysardonic

Amanda hammond1 said:


> He was seized up they measured how tall he was


And I will reiterate, you have been lucky.

Many dogs are taken away, & many never go home again, I would rather be fully aware of the law when importing a dog that may be considered of type, rather than rely on one anecdotal post on an internet forum.


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