# New tank



## MattJ

Hi all,

I have been after a tropical fish tank for a while and after searching eBay for something local and the local shops, I have been offered a tank - free of charge.

The tank is 30" x 12" x 12" (or approx: 76cm x 30cm x 30cm)

Working out roughly, this works out at about 68 litres of water.

The tank comes with lighting, pump and heater.

My questions to you are (as a newbie to fish keeping):

- Which fish would you suggest starting off with?
- Approx how many fish? (I am aware this will depend on type/size/etc)
- Anything I need to know?

I have read through the forum and have seen some of the good guides on here but just wanted to double check!!

Many thanks


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## Guest

You mention a pump, but does the tank have any form of filtration? This is necessary if you want to keep fish, as the filter will break down any solid or organic chemical waste.

You'll also need a few extras, such as a liquid test kit for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, dechlorinator (preferably one that also removes chloramines), gravel siphon, nets (two nets are better than one), algae scraper, food (vary the diet, offer dry and frozen foods), clean and unused buckets (preferably made of food-grade plastic; fermenting bins for wine and beer making are good) and a digital thermometer.

It is generally advisable to buy fish that are suited to the pH of your tapwater, unless of course you filter the water through a Reverse Omsosis (RO) unit to adjust the pH to suit the needs of different species, such as many species of Neotropical cichlids. However, most of the commonly available species are bred in captvity nowadays and are normally acclimatized to the water conditions of the aquatic store from where you'll buy the fish from.

For a 30 x 12 x 12" aquarium, most peaceful (assuming you want a community aquarium, as opposed to a species-only or biotope tank) species upto around 10cm/4" in length should be fine. This includes the bulk of small tetras (and other small characins such as _Nannostomus_ pencilfish), small barbs, rasboras, danios, small catfish (e.g. Corydoras and small L no. Plecs), anabantoids (e.g. Gouramis), livebearers (e.g. Platies, Endlers) and smaller dwarf cichlids such as Keyholes (_Cleithacara maronii_), Dwarf Flags (_Laetacara curviceps_) and _Pelvicachromis_ sp.

It's difficult to say how many fish you could have, as obviously it depends on the size of the fish you want and also whether or not any fish need to be kept in groups or shoals. As a rule, tetras, barbs, rasboras, danios and Corydoras catfihs should be kept in groups. Cichlids are normally kept individually or in pairs, with some requiring to be kept as either species-only or in larger groups as part of a region-specific (e.g. Rift Valley) community.


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> Working out roughly, this works out at about 68 litres of water.


Remember the volume is before displacement, it will be considerably less by the time you've added decor such as rocks, wood and substrate. This will affect how many fish you can stock.

You also need to be aware of the cycling process, unless the tank comes with a filter that has mature or established media you will need to leave the filter for a few weeks to allow it to develop a population of friendly bacteria which will break down fish waste and organic chemical compounds such as ammonia and nitrite, both of which are lethal to fish in concentrations exceeding 0.1ppm (parts per million).

Have a quick look at this article, however I will admit there are more detailed articles on the net.


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## MattJ

Hi,

Many thanks for the reply. I am aware that I need a filtration system but am not sure what exactly is coming with the tank - it was offered for free so I didn't ask too many questions! They have previously kept tropical fish so we will have to wait and see... should get it some point over the weekend.

I am also aware I need the extras you mentioned e.g. test kit, nets, etc, etc.

The cycling system I am reading up on but have the understanding that I need to leave it for so long before adding fish, and then build up gradually, etc, etc.

I am looking to have a tank with several different species.

When you say tetras, barbs, rasboras, danios and Corydoras catfihs should be kept in groups - how many would you consider to be a 'group'? 3 or more?


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## Guest

The sizes of groups can vary, Corydoras catfish should be kept in groups of no less than four. Tetras, barbs, danios and rasboras should all be kept in groups of at least six. Many people keep just one or two inviduals of a certain species from a particular group (e.g. Tetras) and mix species together in the hope they will form a natural shoal. However, most species won't form shoals with other species.

The larger the shoal, the more naturally the fish will behave and the more they will feel at ease.


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## MattJ

So am I right in thinking then that once I am up and running and ready to purchase some fish, I am best off buying 4/6 of one of the species you mentioned above and sticking with them for a week or two and seeing how they get on, before building up gradually?


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## Guest

I'd only suggest adding the full group if the tank is sufficiently big enough. In a 68 litre tank, I'd advise buying around 5-6 individuals and gradually build the shoal up over the period of a few weeks. It gives the filter time to adjust to the increasing amount of waste.


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## MattJ

So 5-6 individual fish from different species and then build up a shoal around one of the species?


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> So 5-6 individual fish from different species and then build up a shoal around one of the species?


About 5-6 individuals from one particular species, and then build up the numbers. Don't mix and match with just one or two from one species and a couple more from a different species, as they won't form a shoal.


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## MattJ

That's what I thought... I think I got confused by the earlier message!

Is there any particular species that would be better for place in the tank first?

Sorry for the questions, but I want to get this right!


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## Guest

Most Tetras and Rasboras benefit from a well-established aquarium with stable water parameters. Danios and Barbs are more adaptable and generally hardier in new aquariums. However, these are only guidelines, you could stock the tank with whatever you wish to start with providing the species are suitably-sized.


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## MattJ

Many thanks for your valued input!


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## MattJ

Just a quick one..

When you say to get 6 barbs or tetras for example ... would it be best to get of the same? E.g. 6 Neon Tetras or am I able to mix tetra variants?


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## Guest

Stick with a group of just one species, rather than a group with just one or two from a different species. For example: six Cardinal tetras as opposed to a group consisting of 1-2 Cardinals, 1-2 Neons and 1-2 Glowlights. Different species don't normally shoal together.

However, that doesn't mean you can't mix species. You could have six Neon tetras and six Rummynoses. The two species won't shoal together, but there would be enough of each species to form separate shoals.


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## MattJ

Many thanks.

As I thought but wanted to double check. 

Cheers


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> Many thanks.
> 
> As I thought but wanted to double check.
> 
> Cheers


It's always good to double check, fish are delicate organisms and as such need the very best of care.


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## MattJ

You do realise once I Am up and running with 6 tetras say, I will be back to ask for suggestions of what to add next!


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> You do realise once I Am up and running with 6 tetras say, I will be back to ask for suggestions of what to add next!


I'll be right here when you need me.


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## MattJ

Tank stand purchased - £25 down from £75!! 

Tank cleaned ... gravel, decor, etc purchased.

Filter is a Fluval 2 Plus and I have an Elite Submersible Heater 100 watt.

I have water test kit and water conditioner.

Am I missing anything?


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## Guest

Do you have any form of lighting, buckets, food, nets and other small miscellaneous items? You don't have to buy these right away, so you're pretty much good to go!

Have fun!


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## MattJ

Oh yeah, sorry!

I have a hood with lighting, buckets and other bits and bobs etc yup.

Going to get the nets at the same time as I get the fish.#

Was thinking probably 6 tetras to start off with once the tank is up running properly.

Cheers


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## MattJ

Tank is all set up now ... gravel, ornaments, filter, heater etc all in place.

Water added and treated.

Just to play the waiting game now before getting fish


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## magpie

Pics? I love looking at other peoples tanks


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## MattJ

How long ideally should I leave the pump & heater etc on without fish before introducing 6 small tetras or barbs?


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## Guest

The pump and heater need to run 24/7 for as long as the tank is set-up. The heater contains a small thermostat that will try to keep the water temperature reasonably close to the set temperature, however thermostats aren't particularly reliable and environmental factors (e.g. ambient air temperature) can affect the temperature of the aquarium. Always use a thermometer (digital or liquid glass) to monitor the temperature.

You will need to cycle the tank before adding any fish, this could take a couple of weeks to almost two months; every tank is different biologically and chemically. To kickstart the cycling process a source of ammonia is required which the fledgling population of filter bacteria can use as a source of food and nitrify (break down or oxidise, depending on which terms you're familiar with) into other waste substances (mainly nitrite and nitrate). The most reliable source of ammonia is bottled household ammonia which is available from most supermarkets and drug stores. 

Keep a close eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels using a liquid test kit. The ammonia will peak for a while before dropping as the nitrite level increases. Eventually, the nitrite level will decrease and the nitrate level will rise. Carry out a small water change once ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm (or 0mg/l.) and you can slowly start adding fish.


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## MattJ

Right, the pump and heater have been on for about 2 days now - water temperature set on the heater and that shown on the thermometer is more or less the same (and is at a stable temperature - i.e. isn't going up and down).

I have purchased household ammonia but am a bit confused now.

I have read many guides online - all of which say different things.

Do I put ammonia in daily? Do I put a larger amount in and play the waiting game?

Tank is 30x12x12 inches but obv need to take into account gravel, and ornaments to get an approx capacity.


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## MattJ

I was looking at this guide:

Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

And the "Fishless Cycling  Ammonia method" section


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## Guest

I use this simple formula for finding how much ammonia to add:



> *Desired tank ammonia level (ppm or mg/l.) / (Ammonia concentration (%) x 10 / tank volume in litres) = Required amount of ammonia (in ml.)*


For example:

Desired level of ammonia = 4 ppm (or mg/l.)
Ammonia concentration = 9.5% (only an example, bottled household ammonia is normally at 9.5% concentration, it does vary from one brand to another)
Tank volume: 100 litres

So: 4ppm / (9.5% x 10 / 100) = 4.2 ml.

We can round this to 4 ml. of ammonia. A plastic sryinge or a pipette with a graduated scale will make it easier to measure out the correct amount of ammonia. You can get these from various placen on the internet, or just ask a local vet.

Only add the ammonia once, it should take at least a week for it to start breaking down into nitrite.


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## MattJ

Chillinator said:


> I use this simple formula for finding how much ammonia to add:
> 
> For example:
> 
> Desired level of ammonia = 4 ppm (or mg/l.)
> Ammonia concentration = 9.5% (only an example, bottled household ammonia is normally at 9.5% concentration, it does vary from one brand to another)
> Tank volume: 100 litres
> 
> So: 4ppm / (9.5% x 10 / 100) = 4.2 ml.
> 
> We can round this to 4 ml. of ammonia. A plastic sryinge or a pipette with a graduated scale will make it easier to measure out the correct amount of ammonia. You can get these from various placen on the internet, or just ask a local vet.
> 
> Only add the ammonia once, it should take at least a week for it to start breaking down into nitrite.


Brill, so much more simple than guides out there! Maybe I am looking too hard!

My ammonia is 9.5% also.

Tank just over 70l - knock of say 10% for decor? Or would you knock off more? I don't have masses in. Using 10% would be approx 63l.

So 4ppm / (9.5% x 10 / 63) = 2.65ml if my calculations are correct ?


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## Guest

I think 10% is a reasonable amount to substract when taking into account the decor, the exact amount of displacement depends on the volume of the substance (e.g. slate, limestone). An object with a bigger volume will take up more space in the tank and thus the aquarium will hold less water.

Using 10% as our ballpark figure, you would indeed require 2.65 ml. of ammonia. Using a syringe or a graduated pipette, you could just round this up to 3 ml. to make dosing easier, the extra 0.35 ml. wouldn't make too much of a difference.


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## MattJ

Brill...

So add that and sit back?

How often would you suggest testing?

Any need for partial water changes atm?


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## Guest

Yep, just add it, sit back and watch. There's no need to test the water too frequently for the first week, once every 3-4 days is sufficient. 

Water changes will remove ammonia which the bacteria need as their food source, so there's also no need for water changes. Carry out a small water change just prior to adding the first fish, to remove any excess nutrients.


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## MattJ

Thank you.

I will add ammonia either tonight or tomorrow (depending if I have a clean pipette or syringe in the house - may have to get a new one tomorrow) then test 3-4 days after.

I will post results and hopefully things will be starting to look OK!!


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## MattJ

Right well the ammonia has been added so I'll test either Sat or Sun and see what results are.
:001_smile:


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## MattJ

Test resuts:

Chlorine levels: 0
Nitrite: between 0-1
Nitrate: 0


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## Guest

Can I ask why you're testing for chlorine?


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## MattJ

I had a testing kit that checked, thats all


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## MattJ

Ammonia test results: 2ppm


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## MattJ

Water quality report from my area:

http://www.nwl.co.uk/_assets/files/wq/T109.pdf


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## MattJ

Today's results:

NO3 - 10
NO2 - 0.5
Ammonia - 2.0 ppm


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## MattJ

Just to update...

Tank was fully cycled last week.

Added 6 neon tetras on Sat and 7 leopard danios on Sunday. Danios were dying off with fin rot and white spot.. contacted LFS who said that they morning after they sold me them they had to place theirs in quarantine. I got a bad batch ... and my money back over the phone.

Obviously these were removed from my main tank asap

The tetras seem quite happy still but are under close observation for a few days before anything else is added to the tank


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## Guest

That's bad luck and an example of poor stock management on the store's part! 

They should have been in quarantine for at least two weeks in the store before being put on sale.


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## MattJ

Tbh the store is highly regarded in the area and the staff were more than helpful.

The store was voted best Aquatic store in the North of England last year. (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3255)

Maybe I was just unlucky. I got a full refund and was told next time I am in they will replace the fish if I wanted.

I'm going to leave the Tetras in the tank for a couple weeks now make sure they are ok and no disease was spread in the tank before introducing any new fish..


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> Tbh the store is highly regarded in the area and the staff were more than helpful.
> 
> The store was voted best Aquatic store in the North of England last year. (2010 Readers' Poll winners | Blog | Practical Fishkeeping)
> 
> Maybe I was just unlucky. I got a full refund and was told next time I am in they will replace the fish if I wanted.
> 
> I'm going to leave the Tetras in the tank for a couple weeks now make sure they are ok and no disease was spread in the tank before introducing any new fish..


It's good on Tri-Mar's part for giving a full refund with no questions asked. It could be a supply problem from the wholesaler.


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## MattJ

Chilton Aquatics .. North 

Like I said, before I even rang them they noticed their danios were struggling and placed them in quarantine. Can't complain at the service like!


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## MattJ

I want to add more oxygen to main tank.. 

At present the filter (Fluval U2 plus) is positioned so that there is a lot of surface agitation as the water returns to the tank. I was hoping that there would have been a way to add an airline and airstone to this filter but I do not have the instructions and can't find anything on google.

For those not familiar with the filter.. there is a blue outlet running horizontal where the water returns, and there is a black pipe vertical above this where air enters..


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> Chilton Aquatics .. North
> 
> Like I said, before I even rang them they noticed their danios were struggling and placed them in quarantine. Can't complain at the service like!


Sorry, misread it.


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## Guest

MattJ said:


> I want to add more oxygen to main tank..
> 
> At present the filter (Fluval U2 plus) is positioned so that there is a lot of surface agitation as the water returns to the tank. I was hoping that there would have been a way to add an airline and airstone to this filter but I do not have the instructions and can't find anything on google.
> 
> For those not familiar with the filter.. there is a blue outlet running horizontal where the water returns, and there is a black pipe vertical above this where air enters..


What I think would certainly bring more members to the fish forum is this: short technical guides on equipment. :idea:


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## MattJ

I agree.

I know if I can't do it with my filter I'll need to purchase a separate airpump, a line, a non-return valve and an airstone attachment! 

But I think it would be useful to have more equipment guides.

I also use another forum - AquariumAdvice.com which I find to be spoton - but mainly US


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