# :(



## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

After seeing people trying to breed rats without tails I wondered how long it'd take until they came into the 'regular market'.

Preloved | tail-less rats for sale for sale in Colchester, Essex

It just looks so wrong.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Regardless of how it looks, rats use their tails for heat regulation and balance, people make me sick sometimes. I love my rats tails, I cant imagine anyone not wanting a tailed rat


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

But I love rat tails


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

That's just sick and there ought to be a law against it...makes me so mad


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

I know, I don't think people take any notice of that at all though. We no longer have tails because we don't need them. Rats do have tails so they obviously need them for something.
Unfortunately a lot of people are put off by the tails so the demand will be there.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

my tutor and her sister came last night to pick their rat babies, and the first thing they did when the girs climbed on to their shoulders was kiss their tails! thats the same as i do- when they balance by wrapping it under your nose, how can you Not kiss the tail!? ut:

also, i can see spending that much money of well bred rats, but nothing is mentioned to make these ones worth £25 or HIGHEST offer!! :cursing:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I've sent them a rather harsh message! It makes me sick to the stomach.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

You've all already said how I feel about this... I love the boys tails... I didn't before I got them but accepted it as part of having a rat... once they were here I just fell in love with the tails.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I love their tails. The little hook at the end is fascinating .


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

hook?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

It's like another nail at the end.


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## rainstars (May 3, 2012)

Oh my gosh that's so mean  I'm sat here while my mouse climbs the cage wrapping her tail around the bars to balance. I can't imagine her without a tail! It's just wrong!

I didn't read the ad just looked at the photo, were they born like that by accident or bred on purpose (how does it even happen) or is it cut off?!


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

awww it is so wrong to try and breed an animal just for looks! if people love rats they should accept them how nature created them, it annoys me when humans mess about trying to create animals that are the new "must have"


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

They say they have a collection so I assume purposefully bred. 
I saw a while ago people were actively trying to breed tailless but it wasn't so mainstream and therefore not as damaging. Like I say, I can see a lot of people who won't know how important their tails are just buying them because they don't like the look of the tails, thus creating more demand and more suffering ratties. 
Then I expect those same people will quickly get bored and dump them in a rescue somewhere for us to clean up the mess and face the vet bills that come with not having a tail which was the only reason they were bred in the first place!


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## Cherpi (Nov 19, 2010)

That's just so wrong, what is wrong with some people :/


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> awww it is so wrong to try and breed an animal just for looks! if people love rats they should accept them how nature created them, it annoys me when humans mess about trying to create animals that are the new "must have"


So...all rats should be top eared agoutis, and all dogs should be wolves, by that logic?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

spoiled_rat said:


> So...all rats should be top eared agoutis, and all dogs should be wolves, by that logic?


i was meaning the health of the rats, but its clear you have an issue with me, why cant you stop sigeling my posts out. I meant by looks not colour but changing the look by not having a tail. sorry I did not explain my post in a more simple way


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

spoiled_rat said:


> So...all rats should be top eared agoutis, and all dogs should be wolves, by that logic?


Not according to evolution.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> i was meaning the health of the rats, but its clear you have an issue with me, why cant you stop sigeling my posts out. I meant by looks not colour but changing the look by not having a tail. sorry I did not explain my post in a more simple way


I will ignore your personal dig and getting your knickers in a twist at anybody daring to ask for clarification and get to the point in hand.

Tailless mutations occur naturally in wild rats as do short stubby tails, NO HUMAN INFLUENCE at all, so before making comments regarding humans breeding for deleterious mutations...probably best to check sources, huh?
http://rodentfancy.com/pets/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/domestication-of-the-rat-w-e-castle.pdf


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

spoiled_rat said:


> I will ignore your personal dig and getting your knickers in a twist at anybody daring to ask for clarification and get to the point in hand.
> 
> Tailless mutations occur naturally in wild rats as do short stubby tails, NO HUMAN INFLUENCE at all, so before making comments regarding humans breeding for deleterious mutations...probably best to check sources, huh?
> http://rodentfancy.com/pets/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/domestication-of-the-rat-w-e-castle.pdf


short and stubby tails are different to no tail at all and their could be a genetic reason for it, but why should people breed rats without tails when the tail is important for the rats well being? that is what i can't get my head round the only reason i can see is ££

ETA :: I have said how i feel and do not wish to be in an argument over wild rats etc, when we are talking about pet rats where humans have a choice of which individuals to breed, IMO it is very sad that such rats are being bred


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> I will ignore your personal dig and getting your knickers in a twist at anybody daring to ask for clarification and get to the point in hand.
> 
> Tailless mutations occur naturally in wild rats as do short stubby tails, NO HUMAN INFLUENCE at all, so before making comments regarding humans breeding for deleterious mutations...probably best to check sources, huh?
> http://rodentfancy.com/pets/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/domestication-of-the-rat-w-e-castle.pdf


even with it occuring naturally, is the tail still not vital for balance etc as already said?
the blue-born gene (differnt than simply blue colouring) occurs in some pups naturally- but because it's a natural thing to happen should we breed for it to get different coat colours and textures?
a yorkie i know of who was blueborn is pure white and tan now as an adult and is beautiful... but he has virtully no immune system and at any time his skin could turn to leather and his quality of life be over. he was lucky- most pups don't make it to 6 months becasue of the immune and other health issues.
but it was a natural occurance for him to be born with this.

(this isn't a dig, just my point of view)


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> short and stubby tails are different to no tail at all and their could be a genetic reason for it, but why should people breed rats without tails when the tail is important for the rats well being? that is what i can't get my head round the only reason i can see is ££


As I said, tailless wild rats have been found in many studies, as have stubby tails, that's naturally occuring, and they survive and breed quite well, so it's hardly a human-selfishness thing, as no humans were involved, and as you said.... 


> if people love rats they should accept them how nature created them


Now can you see why I replied? Nature did create them....and less issues have been seen in pet and lab lines of tailless, than the british/american blue dilute (haemophillia, which still kills many rats per year) and RED-dilute rats (platelet pool storage deficiency, again they bleed to death, and is still common), and finally hairless (hello missing organs and such) so whilst I may not like tailless personally....there are worse things out there.

I would prefer tailless rats over something like this...which I think is just horrible, and reminiscent of a rat-king.
Different Doodle Tails - Tiny Feet Rodentry


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

spoiled_rat said:


> As I said, tailless wild rats have been found in many studies, as have stubby tails, that's naturally occuring, and they survive and breed quite well, so it's hardly a human-selfishness thing, as no humans were involved, and as you said....
> 
> Now can you see why I replied? Nature did create them....and less issues have been seen in pet and lab lines of tailless, than the british/american blue dilute (haemophillia, which still kills many rats per year) and RED-dilute rats (platelet pool storage deficiency, again they bleed to death, and is still common), and finally hairless (hello missing organs and such) so whilst I may not like tailless personally....there are worse things out there.
> 
> ...


its so upsetting seeing how they are breeding them,  those pictures are awful


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

As far as I know all mutations are naturally occurring, unless they are a result of chemical interference, but regardless of what occurs naturally, when we choose to breed animals its our duty to choose the healthier option for the offspring. Obviously in far too many pet species this isn't done, and breeders choose what is in fashion in the showing world, or what will sell more readily.
As something that may cause the rat health issues, whether this is a naturally occurring freak birth, or the result of a program of selective breeding, its worrying for the already fragile health of pet rats. 
So many pet species are being ruined by fashion, and rats already have a tough enough time, without adding this to the mix.


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

I knew someone whose rat gave birth to tailless baby.... She's perfectly happy because she doesn't know what she's missing but no I wouldn't have one personally, I really like their tails


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

spoiled_rat said:


> I will ignore your personal dig and getting your knickers in a twist at anybody daring to ask for clarification and get to the point in hand.
> 
> Tailless mutations occur naturally in wild rats as do short stubby tails, NO HUMAN INFLUENCE at all, so before making comments regarding humans breeding for deleterious mutations...probably best to check sources, huh?
> http://rodentfancy.com/pets/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/domestication-of-the-rat-w-e-castle.pdf


I can understand these mutations occuring naturally in the wild but that is the animals own choice. A human putting 2 rats together takes away their choice to select a breeding partner IMO. So there is perhaps a little more human influence than we would like.

I will also add that anyone looking to add a tailless rat to their group should pay close attention to the shape of the animals rear. There should be no tail stump...a tail stump indicates the rat had its tail docked, probably shortly after birth so it would appear to be a tailless rat. Tailless rats have no tail stump.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Lavenderb said:


> I will also add that anyone looking to add a tailless rat to their group should pay close attention to the shape of the animals rear. There should be no tail stump...a tail stump indicates the rat had its tail docked, probably shortly after birth so it would appear to be a tailless rat. Tailless rats have no tail stump.


That's not strictly true, as short-tailed and stump-tailed rats pop out of tailles matings quite often, as do rats with mini tails without bone, just the fleshy covering and skin. I had tailless come out of my Siamese line (it lurks in quite a few Si/Burm lines, and DU) and I also had some short tailed rats with perfect smooth fleshy ends too.

I didn't select for them, and they had no issues, but not something I want again on purporse. I have also taken on rescues which have had their tails cut off too, and been left with no stumps and rectal procidentia....so it's not that clear-cut in how to tell, excuse the pun.


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