# Aggression



## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Pooh is acting like a spoilt brat. Whenever I say "no" he attacks me biting me hard in arm or leg. It's not playing rough, his eyes kinda turn darker and you can see that he's really angry. This happened earlier today and I was crying from the pain. I had to use the tunnel against him or he wouldn't let go of me. Now he turns his back on me, he is either sad or still mad


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## 3furryfriends (Nov 11, 2014)

I am inexperienced with cat behaviour, but a few weeks ago my shy cat bit my partner due to being stressed with builders in the home. It become infected and he needed a tetanus. Just be Careful as his arm was so painful he had to miss a day of work.
I've heard Feliway can be helpful with behaviour issues, but I'm not sure.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Britt said:


> I had to use the tunnel against him or he wouldn't let go of me.


^^^ what does that mean?

If he's in a bad mood, leave him alone & ignore him

He will get over it and calm down (and then expect cuddles like nothing's happened!)

It's not long since you've moved so he's probably still a bit stressed from that


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I agree with Lilylass, including also being confused by that bit of phrasing. What's he doing that's causing you to tell him off in the first place? In general that's not the best way to train any animal. Instead try and redirect him to doing something that is acceptable and then reward for that action. Neither the redirection nor the reward need include close contact.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear you are getting bitten Britt. I know from experience how painful cat bites can be. 

I agree with LilyLass and Torin, Pooh is probably still feeling stressed and upset from the move. Cats get very attached to their territory, much more so than humans do, and it can be traumatic for them when they have to adjust to new territory. But cats are enormously adaptable, and given enough time to process all the new information he is taking in, he will get there, I am sure of it. 

Have you got him on Zylkene or Calmaid? It should help...

I know it's hard, but try to avoid sounding cross or impatient with him, or it will just 'up the ante' and make him feel more upset and aggrieved. 

If he bites and won't let go when you squeal "ouch" then try making a short hissing noise, and hopefully he may take this as a warning to let go. 

Will he respond to play at present? With the Flying Frenzy?


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Have you got him on Zylkene or Calmaid? It should help...


I think he was on Zylkene but it got mislaid in a box during the move. Not sure if/ when it was found as to how long he had without in the middle


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

He wanted to go out in the hall way and I told him "no". He attacked me and bit me so hard in the arm that I cried. I was bleeding and my arm started swelling. I tried to use a toy but he wouldn't let go of my arm. I then grabbed the tunnel and pushed it against him until he finally let me go. His eyes were black and wide. It was kinda scary.

I would never hit him or anything. It hurts reading that you girls think I'm a bad owner 

He is all I have, I moved because I wanted him to have a better life ....

I still haven't found the Zylkene but I will look again this week-end.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Where did any of us say you were a bad owner?

From my perspective, please do not put words that aren't there into my response!

I wanted to know what you meant by the bit i quoted above to try to figure out why Pooh was behaving like he was to try to help!

Attacking you is not on - but there is always a reason they do it so this is what I certainly was trying to get to


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

I wasn't talking about you Lilyass 

My Pooh is my world. All I want is his happiness. I try avoiding any stress but like you said cats are territorial and moving obviously stressed him (even if he has settled in nicely).

Maybe I need to take some Zylkene (does it work in humans?).


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Lilylass said:


> Where *did any of us* say you were a bad owner?


I can't see where anyone has said this or that you hit him either.

So not only are you reading something that isn't there, you're now accusing someone without putting it in plain speech. This makes me very uncomfortable, personally. So I will bow out of the thread, I think.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Britt said:


> He wanted to go out in the hall way and I told him "no". He attacked me and bit me so hard in the arm that I cried. I was bleeding and my arm started swelling. I tried to use a toy but he wouldn't let go of my arm. I then grabbed the tunnel and pushed it against him until he finally let me go. His eyes were black and wide. It was kinda scary.
> 
> I would never hit him or anything. It hurts reading that you girls think I'm a bad owner
> 
> ...


I would go and buy some more Zylkene instead of waiting to find it, it could help Pooh a lot. It sounds like he is getting frustrated and if you have been in your place a couple of weeks now I would be inclined to let him in to the garden (supervised) I know you are worried he will run off and never come back but I really think he needs that outside space and it's highly unlikely he will run away, he just wants to be a cat and is following his instincts. As Pooh was always an outdoor cat before he came to you the frustration of being locked in, especially when he knows the other cat is about might be getting too much for him so he is taking this out on the only thing nearest to him...You! I would disagree with the notion that you can completely stop a cat from being aggressive as some cats are just made that way and will always be grumpy I have know a few like it but there is always things you can do to try and improve things but you must be consistant. XXX


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh Dear ..... Poor you and Pooh, does sound stress related on both parts, Pooh because he wants to explore his new territory and you because of the stress of moving to a better place for him.

Zylkene may help but if Pooh hasn't been given this during the move it is a case of starting again and will take a good 7 days to notice any difference.

Is he microchipped and do you live in a safe area away from roads?

I understand by using the tunnel you managed to free him from your arm, but this is not achieving anything, all it will do is make Pooh more aggressive towards yourself and you don't want to do this.

The best way forward is to remove yourself from that room and give Pooh his space.

Not sure what your new surroundings are but if you have a room where you can place toys and leave him to be upset on his own for a while it may help.

Here to try and make suggestions to you hun, please don't feel too disheartened, this is all new environment for both of you. xx


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
I keep crying. I have been battling depression for years. Adopting Pooh was the only positive thing that I did in a long long time and what happened yesterday made me realize that he might be unhappy with me and that breaks my heart


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Cats are extremely sensitive to human emotion. I know about depression, but you've got to keep yourself pulled together when you are in the house with him. He is going to react to any negative moods, including crying, it's going to cause him a lot of stress.

He isn't unhappy with you. He's just reacting to the stress change has caused him. That's all.

You may need medical treatment for the bite. Cat bites are nasty things.

Keep a calm environment at home. Use the Zyklene. I don't know what your hall is, is it outside of your apartment? Then keep the door shut so he can't get out there, then you won't have to tell him no.

Distract him and yourself with lots and lots of play time. It will relax you both and help with bonding.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh Hun, please don't be so upset, this happens to most people, I know as ive been through the stress of cats moving home.
It is not you, try and relax, cats do pick up on human stress, this is a big change for both of you and it was never going to be easy. xx Hugs XXx

It will get better, I promise.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Britt, please don't worry, I'm sure you haven't offended anyone, we all have your and Pooh's best interests at heart and were just trying to help. 

I am really sorry to hear you suffer from depression. Things must be very challenging for you at times. You have done a very positive thing for Pooh by moving house to somewhere he will be safe to go out, as it is likely he will benefit from that. 

Just for the moment, both of you are adjusting to the new environment and nerves are a bit on edge. I agree with Soozi I'd definitely get hold of some Zylkene a.s.a.p. And yes, humans can take it too - honestly! I know people who have - it made them feel calmer. 

If you can't get hold of Zylkene quickly, can you get Kalmaid? It contains the amino acid L-tryptophan, which is good at balancing mood, appetite and sleep. Some people find it even better than Zylkene for their cat, when there are anxiety problems. It may be more widely available where you are. 

Do let us know how things are going, so we can support you. 
Onwards and upwards eh!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

CM im sure Britt said Pooh wont touch the kalmaid unfortunately

I would certainly not even consider letting him out yet - unless your garden is cat proofed - it is too soon especially if he is still so unsettled

I would def buy some more zyklene today as this should.take the edge off his stress & help him feel more safe & secure


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> CM im sure Britt said Pooh wont touch the kalmaid unfortunately
> 
> I would certainly not even consider letting him out yet - unless your garden is cat proofed - it is too soon especially if he is still so unsettled
> 
> I would def buy some more zyklene today as this should.take the edge off his stress & help him feel more safe & secure


Britt has got a mynwood jacket for Pooh! So hopefully she can let him have a sniff about outside. X


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ahhhh that sounds great then!

I would start.with 5 mims and build up - obv stopping if he gets stressed


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> Ahhhh that sounds great then!
> 
> I would start.with 5 mims and build up - obv stopping if he gets stressed


Britt did have the lead attached which I thought better to be removed and also to leave the jacket out on the floor when not on him so he gets used to seeing it and having a sniff! I hope it won't be long until he will be enjoying outside for a bit soon.


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## Ely01 (May 14, 2014)

Yes, sounds like a frustration thing. Pooh was allowed in the hallway for extra space in the old flat, so he must be upset not to be allowed out there in the new place (?) 

Britt, I'm sure he's not unhappy with you, you love him and you spoil him quite obviously, so you should never take his aggression personally. It's not against you, it's frustration. But at this stage you can't let him out safely yet, so he'll just have to put up with it a few more days. There's extra space coming for him (garden), he doesn't know it yet but you do.

Hopefully he'll be in a better mood soon. 

Hope the arm gets better. Watch his mood and stay safe!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LL, the Kalmaid is available in 3 different forms : tablets, liquid and gel. I tried the liquid first for one of my cats, adding it to his food, and he would not eat it. 

The tablets are OK for cats who can be pilled directly down the throat, but that is one thing this particular cat of mine just will not accept!

So that left the gel. I ordered some, and first of all gave it by smearing a dose round his mouth. This worked, but was rather messy. So next day I added a dose to his supper at night (which is his biggest meal of the day) and evidently it is hidden well enough, as he eats it without a problem!

Britt, which one did you try for Pooh?


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

He just attacked me again. I was watching and he bit me in the leg. I stood up and he chased me across the room biting me again. Then I grabbed the laser to distract him but I don't know how long this is gonna work 

I didn't buy Kalmaid. I have some Zylkene that I put in his milk. He got Zylkene everyday for 2 weeks before we moved.

The garden isn't secure at all. There are openings everywhere that give access to gardens but also to a road.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Oh Britt I am so sorry to hear that Pooh is acting up.
I don't think that anyone who has read any of your threads could possibly doubt that you are totally devoted to this little fellow, even if he is being a right pain just now.
It has been years since I had a cat that attacked me, but I can still remember those dark eyes you mention and the ferocity of the attacks so I totally sympathise with you.
I don't know if you ever use Homeopathy, but it might be worth you doing a bit of research and buying a remedy to try on him. I am NOT a Homeopath, but the remedy Belladonna 30c comes to mind for what you describe.
Feline Aggression - ABC Homeopathy Forum


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh dear, he does sound really stressed 

Did you manage to get some more Zyklene as he def needs something to help him calm down a bit & relax - if it was helping before the move then the sudden withdrawal (not a criticism just stating facts) coupled with the move may have been a bit too much 

Is there anyway you could make one room 'his' for a few days and put all his stuff in there & let him calm / settle down - hopefully this with Zyklene will restore his equilibrium / normal self 

There is always a reason for the aggression - they unfortunately take it out on whatever / whoever is closest



If you can get it there - pet remedy mighty be worth a shot - and it does apparently work on humans too


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

He keeps crying when the intruder comes near the kitchen door, I'm sure he wants to go into the garden.

This place is small. There is the kitchen, the living room, the bedroom and the bathroom. All of his stuff is in the living room.

I'm starting the Zylkene again tomorrow (I ordered some from the pharmacy because he didn't have any).


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Britt said:


> He keeps crying when the intruder comes near the kitchen door, I'm sure he wants to go into the garden.


Sorry I've missed something - intruder?

Is this someone hanging around?

If so, that certainly won't be helping  - have you reported it?

This is the PR 
Pet Remedy De-Stress Diffuser With 40ml Refill - Animed Direct


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> Sorry I've missed something - intruder?
> 
> Is this someone hanging around?
> 
> If so, that certainly won't be helping  - have you reported it?


I think (and hope) Britt means a feline intruder


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> I think (and hope) Britt means a feline intruder


Yes it's a feline intruder! Britt posted the photo on another thread. X


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Yes we have a feline visitor every day. He almost never leaves the garden. Two days ago he hit Pooh with his paw and the day before yesterday when we were in the garden, he came closer and Pooh ran back into the house. But when he sees him through the window he meows and stretches against the door asking to go out.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ohhhhhh no wonder the poor boy's stressed out 

It def gives a valid reason for the aggression Britt

(sorry internet keeps chucking me off)

Mia's really freaky aggression fits last summer were when I had new neighbours move in next door with cats & she could see them on 'her' fence

Could you put some frosting cover on the windows until he feels a bit more secure

It's worked wonders here (thanks CM!) - and also helps my dog too as she'd get really stressed seeing things in the garden

This sort of stuff Opal Frost Easy Etch Window Film (760mm x 2m) Frosted Privacy Glass Film: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Britt said:


> He just attacked me again. I was watching and he bit me in the leg. I stood up and he chased me across the room biting me again. Then I grabbed the laser to distract him but I don't know how long this is gonna work
> 
> I didn't buy Kalmaid. I have some Zylkene that I put in his milk. He got Zylkene everyday for 2 weeks before we moved.
> 
> The garden isn't secure at all. There are openings everywhere that give access to gardens but also to a road.


Were his attacks today as vicious as before? I honestly think Pooh is getting more and more frustrated that he cannot claim his territory. Keep trying with the mynwood jacket. Unfortunately Pooh will learn at his own pace so there's no quick fix. Don't get upset and persevere Hun. X


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Soozi said:


> Were his attacks today as vicious as before? I honestly think Pooh is getting more and more frustrated that he cannot claim his territory. Keep trying with the mynwood jacket. Unfortunately Pooh will learn at his own pace so there's no quick fix. Don't get upset and persevere Hun. X


Today's attack was short because I immediately started playing with him.
It was raining here or I would have taken him into the garden. If it's dry tomorrow I will put his Mynwood jacket and go for some baby steps in "his" garden.
Lilyass, we have very large windows here which is what I like about this apartment. I would prefer not to put anything on them. I love it when Pooh can sunbathe in the living room


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Hopefully once he's put his scent in the garden the intruder will disappear!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi Britt, 
I left it until today to post this. As you know Liddy has been suffering extreme stress over the last few weeks because of a new cat visiting our garden she did not get aggressive towards us but became a different cat, she was jumpy, pacing, meowing at the patio door and generally running around after me as if her life depended on it. For the last 3 days we have been letting her out, by her own choice she only stays out there for about 5 or 10 minutes each time but the difference is amazing she's calmed right down and is not showing any anxiety at all and is much more relaxed and happy. We never let her out there before as although our front gardens are on a pedestrian walkway (no road nearby) she still has access to other gardens and we were more worried about that. She has been out has a good sniff about in the garden and on the pathway and lifts and quivers her tail to scent mark although she can't spray it must reassure her. I just hope that Pooh will calm down too when he can have access to his own little garden. I feel that this is the root of his naughty behaviour towards you at the moment. X please let us have a progress report.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

He just attacked me again. He had been so loving all day spending hours on my lap and then tonight he bit me harder than ever in the arm. I put him in the bedroom for ten minutes hoping that he would calm down. I let him into the living room again and he attacked me pretty badly. I managed to let him let go of me and he rolled onto the floor and I realized that he might be afraid of me, of my reaction to this attack. Now when I approach him he turns his back on me. I'm in tears again. I told you before -- I'm a bad owner


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Some cats just have....bad wiring in their heads, and Pooh may be one of those. It's nothing to do with YOU. He would be this way with anyone. It's fortunate he is with someone who hasn't tossed him out the door after the first attack.

I have known of three cats with this kind of disorder. One was the cat of a very dear friend of mine. She lived with tattered skin all of the cat's life. She did try various medications for him, but she never kept the meds up, even though they did help. She loved him to pieces and he tore her to pieces. She did lose him to kidney failure when he was not quite 10 years old. I think it may have been the stress he was under because of his mental handicaps, that brought on the kidney failure. He had a lot of urinary tract issues too, also common for cats with a lot of stress. His life, from anyone's point of view, was low stress, and perfect for a cat, but he just had a wire wrong in his brain.

The other two cats I know of were eventually euthanized one at age 8 and one at only just over 2 years old, because they just got worse and worse.

I know this isn't comforting words, but I think you need to stop blaming yourself and realize that Pooh may need some serious help. It's not your fault, and you _can_ help him.

If it comes to it, there ARE medications available to help cats like this, now.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh dear 

When he attacks, what exactly is he doing just before it happens and during it? (trying to figure out what might be going on)

Have you had a tetanus recently?


10 mins is nowhere near long enough for him to calm down if he's really stressed I'm afraid  - it can take Mia 4 days to let me in a room without attacking me when she has one of her 'fits'

Yes, he may well be afraid - you don't know his history and it may be that someone has retaliated in the past

I'd just ignore him for a bit 


Has the intruder been around? what was happening just beforehand?


Hopefully the Zyklene will kick in very soon




ETA - Lorilu, very interesting post. I've come to the conclusion that's what's going on with Mia - thankfully she's OK atm but I do know she will have another 'fit' at some point or another. Life is one big stresser for her - she is afraid of literally everything (and getting worse as she gets older) and she copes with the stress by attacking first.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

PS I did also have a cat who attacked me on occasion, but his attacks were very clearly displaced aggression. How I hand;ed it was I would drop a blanket over him. Pick him up, blanket and all. Put him in the bathroom (I lived in a one room apartment), still under the blanket (making sure he could get out of it when he was ready) with the light turned off and leave the door slightly ajar.

Eventually he would come out on his own, over his fit. I did see them as fits.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Google feline limbic rage syndrome. This may or may not be Pooh's problem, but worth reading about to help you understand what might be happening to him. It's a neurological disorder.

it could also be a severe form of Feline Hyperesthesia Syndrome (FHS)


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh dear, you poor thing :sad:
Am I right in thinking that Pooh only started attacking you since you have been in your new home and he hasn't had any Zylkene?
First things first, he needs to be back on the Zylkene as soon as possible.
He will need time to settle in your new place and also for the Z to work. Only then will you be able to ascertain how to move forward.

I don't usually agree with free roaming cats unless the environment is safe and suitable, however letting Pooh out may be your only long term option for his happiness - what have been your thoughts on that Britt? xx


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Thank you for the tip, Lorilu, I will try the blanket. 

Lilylass, I don't know what triggers the attacks. Earlier our visitor was outside and Pooh started crying to get out again. I kept telling him "no" because it was already dark and rather cold and I didn't want to go out anymore (letting him out like Soozi did for Liddy isn't an option, this garden isn't secure at all and he can have access to a road). He then came to me and bit me first in the ankle (that hurts) and then in the arm and his eyes changed color, you could see that he was really mad.

Moggie, Pooh attacked me before we moved into our new place. He used to do that at our old place sometimes.
He has been drinking cat milk with Zylkene for two days now. I hope it will kick in soon. I feel so miserable 
I contacted my landlady asking if I can catproof the garden but I need permission from the other tenants in the building. I hope they will agree with me.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Awww Britt poor you and poor Pooh! the reason he went for you is because he couldn't get to his main objective the other cat! this is normal with a frustrated cat and I have seen it before with other cats, only a while back my neighbours cat was about to chase a cat down the pathway outside his house and my neighbour came out to see what was going on the other cats got away and her own cat launched itself at her and bit her hard so it does happen, When Pooh goes near the door or sees the other cat do as Lorilu says if you can see his body language changing and throw a blanket over him or get yourself out of the way completely. I did know that Pooh has bitten you before you moved but he is getting worse because of this intruder. Liddy did go on the path but didn't go any further and Yes it is safe here but it has made a big difference for her she's not even bothered to go out there today at all so I am hoping you will get results in the end with Pooh. 2 days is no way long enough for the Zylkene to work it might take a week especially as Pooh is so stressed. One thing we must remember is Pooh was an outdoor cat before and having a taste of outside space is now an overwhelming obsession. X


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Oh dear, you poor thing :sad:
> Am I right in thinking that Pooh only started attacking you since you have been in your new home and he hasn't had any Zylkene?
> First things first, he needs to be back on the Zylkene as soon as possible.
> He will need time to settle in your new place and also for the Z to work. Only then will you be able to ascertain how to move forward.
> ...


I can't help thinking "You can take the cat out of the outside but you can't take outside out of the cat" I think Pooh will become more and more stressed and upset until he can claim his territory it's his natural instincts as an outdoor boy and we have to repsect that, I just don't think it's fair keeping him locked inside and unhappy. I realise it is still early days though.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Soozi said:


> I can't help thinking "You can take the cat out of the outside but you can't take outside out of the cat" I think Pooh will become more and more stressed and upset until he can claim his territory it's his natural instincts as an outdoor boy and we have to repsect that, I just don't think it's fair keeping him locked inside and unhappy. I realise it is still early days though.


I completely agree - an outdoor cat is very difficult to turn into an indoor cat if they don't want to be. I do believe in this case that Pooh needs his outdoor access. Hopefully you can get approval for the cat proofing Britt - if not though you may have to consider that he needs to go out no matter what :001_unsure:


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Britt said:


> Lilylass, I don't know what triggers the attacks. Earlier our visitor was outside and Pooh started crying to get out again. I kept telling him "no" because it was already dark and rather cold and I didn't want to go out anymore


OK .... that's interesting actually

When he crys to go out, just let him - totally ignore him

Is there any reason you tell him 'no' 

Mine often sit at the backdoor & cry to be out - Archie's doing it right now (and he has a high pitched, constant Siamese type howl that can grate right through you after a while! ) but he can't go out just now as it's dark!

It's honestly never occurred to me to tell him 'no' .... I just ignore it and eventually he'll go away 



Britt said:


> He then came to me and bit me first in the ankle (that hurts) and then in the arm and his eyes changed color, you could see that he was really mad.


He may well associate the word 'no' with something bad in the past .....

I know what you mean about the eye colour etc - Mia does that

Also, I was just thinking about what you were saying about him being really affectionate / cuddly etc earlier on

Mia is Jeckyll & Hyde - she is the most affectionate cat I think I've ever had BUT also the most vicious too 

It's fairly common for cats to attack after being very affectionate - a lot can get over stimulated if cuddled etc for too long

Archie does it but as he's not really aggressive in nature, it's fairly easy to extract myself without too much damage!

Mia does it too - and I will come off worst if I don't back off at the right time - she'll come on my knee for a max of 10 mins before 'she strikes'

I can now read the subtle signs in her body language and, as soon as I see them, she's put off my knee

As long as I do this & then leave her alone, she totally calms down and attack averted

Similar with cuddles - she absolutely loves being picked up and carried around but really a max of 2-3 mins & she's put down

HTH


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

LilyLass makes a very good point about the "No". You seem to use it a lot with him. He obviously hates it. Don't use it. One of my cats, I adopted from the shelter, has an aversion to the word "kitty". You know, everyone says "kitty kitty" to their cats?

Well she was attacking me quite a bit and at first I didn't see the connection, finally one day I realized the attacks were happening when I called "kitty kitty" to her. I stopped using those words around her, and to this day, "kitty" is never spoken in my house. She had other issues too, it took two years to socialize her, but that's another story.

Also : I just want to make sure you saw my post on the various neurological problems that could be causing these attacks:

QUOTE=lorilu;1063953756]*Google feline limbic rage syndrome. This may or may not be Pooh's problem, but worth reading about to help you understand what might be happening to him. It's a neurological disorder.

it could also be a severe form of Feline Hyperesthesia Syndrome (FHS)*[/QUOTE]


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Yes I missed this too - great point guys 
Ignore Pooh - completely - when he starts to act up. Leave the room. Make no eye contact and do not speak.
If he eventually follows you into another room calmly and happily give him a treat.
Sorry I have no experience but this sounds worth a try


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> I completely agree - an outdoor cat is very difficult to turn into an indoor cat if they don't want to be. I do believe in this case that Pooh needs his outdoor access. Hopefully you can get approval for the cat proofing Britt - if not though you may have to consider that he needs to go out no matter what :001_unsure:


He spent one year indoor at the rescue before I adopted him.

I don't want him to go out and never come back and I believe it's what's going to happen if I let him out in an "unsafe" garden. I hope that the other tenants will agree that this garden needs some improvements. If not I don't know what I'm gonna do 

He licked my fingers half an hour ago and he's sleeping now. I will go to bed in an hour and I hope that he will stay in the bedroom like he usually does.

Leaving the room isn't easy. I live in a small studio with only one bedroom. Where am I supposed to go? 
I will stop saying "no" but I talk to him a lot (I have nobody else to talk to -- how pathetic is that ...).

I'm more depressed than ever


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

The good news is he's calmed down & fingers crossed he will stay that way - I'd just leave him alone for now

Re going out - I also wouldn't want him to go out without the garden being proofed so keeping my fingers crossed the other tenants won't mind (it shouldn't stop them using it so hopefully)

I do think not saying 'no' will help ......

As for talking to him - I talk to mine all the time 

I've also no-one else to chat to and it would be very odd to be in a totally silent house all the time  (I have been told that I talk back to the TV on occasion too! )


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

I'm the only one using the garden, it comes with the apartment that I'm renting but the other tenants of the building have to agree to any "change" that would be made (not sure why).


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I've just gone through the thread Britt and I'm so sorry to read about Pooh's biting. I do feel the same as the others that this stems from frustration with the other cat. Because he can't go out, that's not going to change quickly, so you need to find a way to manage his moods as best you can.

The only thing that works in our house, when we have to manage bad behaviour, is by ignoring it completely. It's very hard to do when you talk to Pooh all the time but if he starts to behave badly then you've got to try to ignore him. Do not respond in any way whatsoever. Don't look at him, turn your back on him, go to the loo, if you can't got to another room, immediately do something else that doesn't involve him - watch TV, read a book, make a drink, anything. Completely ignore him until he comes up to you and you know he's calmed down, however long that takes.

If ever he does bite you again - do not react at all. This is going to be really hard to do especially when it hurts but it is important that he doesn't get any reaction at all from you. If you see the other cat in the garden try to ignore it. If Pooh see's you fret over it he will get even more anxious. If they want to attack each other through the window let them, don't get involved.

Equally, from now on when he is being loving, playful etc be positive with him. Praise him, stroke him, love him. He will start to realise that good behaviour gets a good reaction and he will want to do more of it and less of the bad.

I'd keep him on the Zylkene (we use Royal Canin Calm dry food as it's got the L Trytophan in it as well) and try some Pet Remedy diffusers if you can.

I hope things start to improve soon Britt. Don't beat yourself up over it, these things happen. I've got a little madam who is really pushing the boundaries at the moment; she has been so spoilt and has decided that she doesn't want grooming or love, only play. She will struggle and bite so I'm using the same techniques as above to put a stop to it. 

Things will get better even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Britt said:


> He spent one year indoor at the rescue before I adopted him.
> 
> I don't want him to go out and never come back and I believe it's what's going to happen if I let him out in an "unsafe" garden. I hope that the other tenants will agree that this garden needs some improvements. If not I don't know what I'm gonna do
> 
> ...


What is so pathetic about talking to your cat? You SHOULD talk to him. How else will he know how much you love him? I talk to my cats all the time.

I live alone. I see nothing pathetic about my solitude, or my talking to my cats. I quite love my arrangements!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Britt, I do agree with Lilylass and Huckybuck :- when Pooh asks to go out, do not engage with him at all, not even meeting his eye. Ignore him, pick up a book, watch TV, don't react. 

I think by engaging with him in saying "NO" it is causing him to redirect his anger and frustration at the cat in the garden onto you. Cats are quite good at redirecting their anger onto the nearest being (i.e. cat, dog, or human!)

Also, as lorilu said, "no" may be a word that has bad associations for Pooh from his past. I adopted a senior cat (R.I.P) a few years ago, who became angry whenever I chatted to him if I used his name. So I learnt to avoid using his name and only used it when calling him in for his food (when he didn't mind) 

He had Chronic Kidney Disease and had spent 4 months in a Shelter after living all his life with one owner. Then his owner died. The cat was so stressed, angry and miserable in the Shelter his health was suffering badly and he was not expected to survive long. He used to lash out at the staff and my theory was the staff had used his name when reprimanding him, 
so his name had begun to have negative associations for him. 

Please don't let yourself get depressed Britt. Pooh's behaviour is "protest" behaviour. I understand it is a very aggressive way for him to act out his protest by biting you, and I have not really experienced that with any of my cats, though we have several like it at the Shelter. 

I have had several neutered male cats at different times in the past who sprayed indoors in annoyed "protest" if they were not allowed to go out exactly when they wanted to, That was no fun, but I appreciate being bitten is worse. 

I do hope you manage to get agreement from your fellow tenants to cat proof the garden.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

With the best will in the world, Britt, you've been given a very simple solution that will make you and Pooh happy in the short term while you sort everything else out. I know you say you like your windows in the apartment, but the cause of Pooh's aggression, from what I'm reading, is very much triggered by this other cat. The only way to solve the behaviour is to solve the problem, and that involves removing the other cat from his sight. Chillminx suggested putting up opaque sticky film on the bottom of the windows, and I would second that. Ok, I know you don't like the idea, but you don't like the idea of being bitten either, and I know which of the two I'd be choosing. It could be in place while you're organising the cat proofing, then can come off once the garden is sorted. That way,e veryone wins. He stops being upset by the other cat, you have time to do a good job rather than a rushed one on the garden, then the film comes off as he can go out. He can't see the other cat as they can't get in the garden, and you have your windows back. In the meantime, because you're not covering the whole window, you'll still get sun and he can sun bathe as you say you like him to. I'm struggling to see what the problem is with this idea.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi Britt, it might be worth trying the peel off opague window stuff as Carly suggests? I have external electric roller shutters that completely block out light but it didn't make much difference with Liddy she still paced around the door and she was still anxious and stressed but it's worth a try, the only problem I see there is Pooh now knows that the cat is around each day so will still want to go out but maybe if he doesn't catch sight of the other cat he won't get quite so frustrated.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

It's really hard for me to ignore Pooh when he cries to go out, he literally jumps and tries to open the kitchen door. I took him out with the harness earlier but now that the intruder is here I took him out in my arms. He keeps meowing to go out but what if the other cat attacks him?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Whilst taking cats out on harness and leash is good in some circumstances, I am not sure it is helping Pooh at present. It may be causing him even more frustration because he can't go out on his own and find the cat who has been bothering him. 

Do you mean when you say you carry him out that he has his harness and leash on? Be careful you have the leash tightly wrapped round your wrist. I have known of a number of cases where cats have escaped when wearing harness, and run off trailing the leash behind them. Some harnesses can also be wriggled free from, unless they are very tight.

If getting permission from all the tenants to cat proof the garden and have the work done will take too long, how about having a run erected off the house for Pooh to go outdoors safely? It would cost less and may not need the rest of 
the tenants permission, just the landlord's.

EDIT: the other cat won't come up and attack Pooh whilst he is with you on his harness and leash. He will be too wary of you.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Britt said:


> It's really hard for me to ignore Pooh when he cries to go out, he literally jumps and tries to open the kitchen door. I took him out with the harness earlier but now that the intruder is here I took him out in my arms. He keeps meowing to go out but what if the other cat attacks him?


By taking him out in your arms I feel will just cause more frustration for Pooh Britt, you are very likely to receive a bad bite if the intruder suddenly appears while you are out there and Pooh would fight you to run! What you are doing is quite dangerous but that's only my opinion and maybe others would totally disagree. Keep him on the harness would be my safe choice, he does sound like he is getting desperate. X


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Whilst taking cats out on harness and leash is good in some circumstances, I am not sure it is helping Pooh at present. It may be causing him even more frustration because he can't go out on his own and find the cat who has been bothering him.
> 
> Do you mean when you say you carry him out that he has his harness and leash on? Be careful you have the leash tightly wrapped round your wrist. I have known of a number of cases where cats have escaped when wearing harness, and run off trailing the leash behind them. Some harnesses can also be wriggled free from, unless they are very tight.
> 
> ...


The Mynwood jacket seems pretty safe. Pooh is getting used to it.

Not sure how to make a cat run off the apartment. I'm not good at building things 

I'm doing everything wrong. You girls must hate me


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

No one hates you Hun quite the opposite! There is nothing right or wrong it's a question of what is right for you and Pooh all cats characters and environments are different so it's what works for you all of us post to get other opinions and advice but it doesn't always work out. I just think that whatever you do you need to be consistent if you feel Pooh is happy enough on the leash then do it everyday. You mustn't give up on the first/second attempt. X


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Britt ... you are not stupid, nor a bad owner and nobody hates you hun, I know how hard this is for you but please try and relax, when things go wrong, walk away, count to ten, big deep breaths and carry on, otherwise Pooh will react to your emotions and you will forever go round in circles.

A small attached enclosure is easy, 4 aviary panels, so 3 are for the run and the remaining one for the roof, just screw together, you will need somebody to drill holes in the wall to attach or you could attach a trellis type wood to the home and attach the frames this way, no landlord can stop you having a trellis.

So wish I lived near you to help you.

Have to agree, carrying Pooh in the garden is asking for problems and you can get seriously hurt this way.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Britt - once again, where has anyone said they hated you, you're doing everything wrong 

Sorry but it's starting to annoy me that you keep saying things like that when everyone is bending over backwards to offer help and suggestions 

None of us knows everything when it comes to animal ownership - it's a constant learning curve that will continue for all of us until the day we depart earth

It doesn't mean you / any of us are awful owners - in fact the exact opposite - the fact you / we're willing to stick with things when they're difficult and look for help / advice and try alternatives that makes you / us good owners 

Pooh (and the animals we own) are very lucky to have people who care about them so much - especially those who are more ..... challenging / difficult 


Bowing out ....


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Earlier today I took my baby for another walk in the garden. It went really well, Pooh rubbing against the walls and furniture .... But while we were heading back to the kitchen the other cat appeared. Pooh literally flew back into the apartment. It kinda scared our visitor who is nowhere to be seen now.

Lilylass, please forgive me. I'm so depressed and upset that I can't think clearly and things will get worse with Christmas approaching ...


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Britt said:


> Earlier today I took my baby for another walk in the garden. It went really well, Pooh rubbing against the walls and furniture .... But while we were heading back to the kitchen the other cat appeared. Pooh literally flew back into the apartment. It kinda scared our visitor who is nowhere to be seen now.
> 
> Lilylass, please forgive me. I'm so depressed and upset that I can't think clearly and things will get worse with Christmas approaching ...


Well at least you know that he runs in to his own home so he doesn't sound as though he wants to fight with the other cat. X


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Britt my dear, please let's hear no more about anyone "hating" you! I never heard anything so silly!  We are your pals, trying to help you cope with a difficult situation as best we can.:thumbsup:

Advice we give is for you to consider, and either act upon (if it seems good advice) or reject if you choose. It's entirely up to you. We will not blame you if you decide not to take our advice, as you may have a better solution. 

At the end of the day you are the person who knows Pooh best, we can only comment from a distance on what we know of him from you. 

It is important for you to try and be as calm as you can, because cats are hugely sensitive to our moods. So if you can try as much as possible to think happy thoughts Pooh will pick this up from you. Put on the radio to a station that plays old pop songs and sing along to them. I promise you it will cheer you up as well as relaxing you.


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## MinkyMadam (Apr 12, 2014)

Sorry to hear what you're going through Britt. Others have given sound advice about Pooh and the possible causes for his behaviour. It sounds like these changes are all about the stressors for him re the change in environment and other cat, and are in no way any reflection on you. 
I'm so sorry to hear you've been feeling depressed. Please bear in mind that you need to look after yourself and your own well being as well as Pooh's. You've obviously had a lot of stress lately with the move etc and you need to be kind to yourself as that can be difficult for anyone, and especially difficult if you have experience of anxiety or depression. I certainly don't want to pry, but just want to say I hope you have access to help and support if you need it. And if there are things that you enjoy or that help you to cope when stressed, I hope you're making time for those. Hugs x


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

It looks like the Zylkene is kicking in. Pooh didn't bite me yesterday and he tried to do it earlier today but I showed him the blanket and that was it.

We just played together for 15 minutes, he was running and jumping like a panther, it was great. I had a good laugh. I love him so much :001_wub:


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

Britt said:


> It looks like the Zylkene is kicking in. Pooh didn't bite me yesterday and he tried to do it earlier today but I showed him the blanket and that was it.
> 
> We just played together for 15 minutes, he was running and jumping like a panther, it was great. I had a good laugh. I love him so much :001_wub:


That's great to hear x have you tried CBT for your depression? I have struggled with anxiety and depression and went on a CBT course that taught relaxation as well, it's a 2 year commitment in my case and im 18 months in and doing really well. I got to a stage I found it difficult to leave the house so my children were suffering but I can leave the house with more confidence and my panic attacks are getting less frequent. I would highly recommend it, there are courses all over the country, it might help you x


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

tmerc22 said:


> That's great to hear x have you tried CBT for your depression? I have struggled with anxiety and depression and went on a CBT course that taught relaxation as well, it's a 2 year commitment in my case and im 18 months in and doing really well. I got to a stage I found it difficult to leave the house so my children were suffering but I can leave the house with more confidence and my panic attacks are getting less frequent. I would highly recommend it, there are courses all over the country, it might help you x


What's CBT? I'm willing to try anything because I feel so down that it sucks


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Britt said:


> What's CBT? I'm willing to try anything because I feel so down that it sucks


It's Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) - NHS Choices

There is an English speaking CBT therapist in Brussels. 

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy in Brussels


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Chin up Hun! a friend of mine had this therapy in UK and she did it all via Skype so you might be able to arrange something like that? You've had a lot on your plate recently and I'm not surprised you feel down especially when you cope with everything on your own, you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for and I know you'll get over this bad patch, go give Pooh a lovely big cuddle. We're all here for you XX Hugs


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

chillminx said:


> It's Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.
> 
> Cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) - NHS Choices
> 
> ...


Expensive ... I spent so much money for the move, the furniture and everything that I can't afford therapy right now 



Soozi said:


> Chin up Hun! a friend of mine had this therapy in UK and she did it all via Skype so you might be able to arrange something like that? You've had a lot on your plate recently and I'm not surprised you feel down especially when you cope with everything on your own, you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for and I know you'll get over this bad patch, go give Pooh a lovely big cuddle. We're all here for you XX Hugs


I don't feel that strong, believe me. I try to hide my tears from Pooh but I cry every day. It sucks being alone


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Britt said:


> Expensive ... I spent so much money for the move, the furniture and everything that I can't afford therapy right now
> 
> I don't feel that strong, believe me. I try to hide my tears from Pooh but I cry every day. It sucks being alone


Britt you mustn't suffer in silence Hun make an appointment to see your Doctor as soon as possible and see what they suggest. I hate to think you are so unhappy but there will be help for you and things will turn around.  XX


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## Ely01 (May 14, 2014)

I agree with Soozi, if you seriously suffer from depression or anxiety, your doctor should be able to point you to people who can help you through it/out of it/in it at little financial cost, if any. 
I'm pretty sure of that. It's the case in the UK where treatments/expenses are kept to what is strictly necessary in the public health sector (observation d'expat'), it's got to be the case in Belgium too. 

It's important for Pooh too, missy


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## Sophiebee (Jul 9, 2013)

Britt said:


> Expensive ... I spent so much money for the move, the furniture and everything that I can't afford therapy right now
> 
> I don't feel that strong, believe me. I try to hide my tears from Pooh but I cry every day. It sucks being alone


Oh britt im so sorry you are having a tough time, i battle with anxiety and depression too and know how horrible and hopeless it can feel, as soozi said make an appointment with your doctor. Also google 'mindfulness' and see if you can start using the techniques, it has helped me to relax a little when ive been having a tough time. You can also get books on cbt techniques, obviously they arent as good as face to face therapy but they may be of some help.


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## MinkyMadam (Apr 12, 2014)

I would second Sophiebee on finding mindfulness useful. There's a free online 'mindfulness based stress reduction' online course available via this link. 
Online MBSR (free)

Please do seek help and support if you need it. This can be a difficult time of year for people with depression/anxiety. If you were in the UK, there would be third sector organisations you could contact as well as seeing your doctor but I'm not sure what's available in Belgium. There must be somewhere that could signpost you though.

Sending you big hugs. X


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

Sorry it's not free, I was lucky I was reffered from my health visitor so I paid nothing but I do help out on some research for depression with mum's with children to help with a 2 year study.
I would see your doctor anyway you might be able to get financial assistance or they may have an alternative that is no or minimal cost.
don't suffer in silence, you are not alone. PM me anytime x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hun, we are all here to help you, you are not alone xxx


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## Ely01 (May 14, 2014)

You d probably benefit from talking to someone rather than trying all by yourself from home too.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

Pooh's aggression almost stopped but our visitor/intruder visits us a few times a day. That cat is so gentle, he wants to be stroked ... Why would an owner let him wander around like this when it's cold and dark outside?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Very pleased Britt, to hear Pooh has calmed down! :thumbsup: Are you sure the visiting cat does have a home? Maybe he/she is trying to move in with you?


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Very pleased Britt, to hear Pooh has calmed down! :thumbsup: Are you sure the visiting cat does have a home? Maybe he/she is trying to move in with you?


He tries to move in for sure. Poor guy was outside earlier when it was snowing so hard 
I give him Pooh's leftovers and he seems well nourished. I wish I would know if he has a chip. I could ask helpanimals to take him him and have him adopted if he has no owner. It is a no kill shelter and this cat is so sweet that he would find a good family very quickly.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Poor guy being out in the snow!  Do you have any animal welfare organisations where you are, who will come out to check for a microchip? If not, it would mean you popping him in a carrier some time and taking him to the vet to check for a chip.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Poor guy being out in the snow!  Do you have any animal welfare organisations where you are, who will come out to check for a microchip? If not, it would mean you popping him in a carrier some time and taking him to the vet to check for a chip.


I could ask the rescue for a microchip reader. I wish I could help that poor chap. His owner if he has one should keep him inside when it's snowing like that.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Britt said:


> I could ask the rescue for a microchip reader. I wish I could help that poor chap. His owner if he has one should keep him inside when it's snowing like that.


By all means do borrow a chip reader to scan the cat but PLEASE don't rush into 'rescuing' him until you are 100% sure that he is homeless or uncared for.
many cats LIKE spending some time out in the snow or rain and you have said your self that he appears to be in good condition.


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