# Weve got 8 Staff Bull Terrier pups!



## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

hi all my lovely staffs


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## plumo72 (Nov 2, 2007)

Aww they are lovely, i'm sure they will find good homes soon


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

well well well rrg


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2007)

Gorgeous puppys, loved rotty 
Are they kc'ed?

i must admit, i myself think Xmas is a terrible time to let a bitch have a litter because of lots of obvious reasons, i wish u luck in finding your babys the best possible homes they deserve , lets hope they aint bought as prezzies


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

loe said:


> Gorgeous puppys, loved rotty
> Are they kc'ed?
> 
> i must admit, i myself think Xmas is a terrible time to let a bitch have a litter because of lots of obvious reasons, i wish u luck in finding your babys the best possible homes they deserve , lets hope they aint bought as prezzies


unfortunatley no they arent Kc'ed but they all have full pedigrees with many Kc'ed in the lines.

I will be making sure they arent bought as christmas presents, they wont be ready until end of January too. They will all be having the Companion Care puppy pack, (wormed, injections, flea course and microchipped) In with the price. Were looking for around £280 for them.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2007)

Great to hear your taking care as to where your gorgeous babys are placed 

Have u got pictures of mum and dad? il'd love to see them


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

loe said:


> Great to hear your taking care as to where your gorgeous babys are placed
> 
> Have u got pictures of mum and dad? il'd love to see them


ill try and sort these out ive got pics of mum, but the sire belongs to my uncle. ill do my best.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2007)

Ok kwl  ty, look forwardto them


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

some more pics including my very underweight dam, but shes gradually putting the weight back on im feeding her a meal called NUTRO performance great stuff..


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## colacooler (Nov 19, 2007)

Yeah Christmas is always a bad time to have pups but I suppose it does happen.

They are all very cute mind! Shame they aren't KC.


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## Majestic Mayhem (Dec 14, 2007)

Unfortunately staffies are going out of vogue at the moment, visit any dog rescue centre and the're full of them, their popularity was their downfall, seen as "Bling" they've now been ousted as the dog "to have" by the bigger mastiffs and mastiff crosses!

I hope you do find loving homes for your puppies cos I know staffies make excellent pets if trained corectly.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

well they may be going out of vogue but in the very short 24 hours ive had them on this site and other sites i have 4 left, but i must admit they have very desirable physiques and colours at the moment so not sure what i was worrying about


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2007)

Majestic Mayhem said:


> Unfortunately staffies are going out of vogue at the moment, visit any dog rescue centre and the're full of them, their popularity was their downfall, seen as "Bling" they've now been ousted as the dog "to have" by the bigger mastiffs and mastiff crosses!
> 
> I hope you do find loving homes for your puppies cos I know staffies make excellent pets if trained corectly.


I Very much agree mayhem.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

The black & tan's I doubt will change colour and is seen as a fault in SBT's.
Can I ask why there not KC'd?
And are they tested for L2/HC?


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

this is not a perfect world. i am not allowed to call my self sir james fitzmaurice, but does it make me any less of a pedigree human. i think not. not sure why you are asking a question that would quite possibley have returned a very sarcastic reply from someone else. we are all not perfect and all i can be thankfull for is that the accident happened between two staffs and we havent ended up with mungrels. Ant the pups will be going for all their checks very soon and im not just trying to make a quick buck, they are beautifull looking staffs with all the correct breed standards. But this is not a surprise with two Champions in the sires bloodline "Netherton Storm" + "Cradbury Dannys Boy" and many Kc'd on both sides. The Tanned Staffs have been confirmed as reds, and we may have a tiger brindle which is very desirable. The Runt of the litter is the only one which has turned out black and white. Im not a breeder and the money im asking for the pups is to pay for their up bringing and to ensure a good home. All pups come with the companion care puppy pack which sends them on their journey microchippeed, wormed, flea'd and all their first injections. they all come with a starter pack of food that they are all weaning onto, "Nutro Choice" . They have all been weighed since birth and come with a special pack we decided to do for the new owners which gives you photos of them all growing up week by week.


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## flippy (Dec 30, 2007)

Sounds to me like you have done a very good job. They look adorable pups.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

I wasn't been sarcastic but isn't important for our breeds health & welfare to test for all genetic hereditary conditions which by the way a vet can't test for.So yes they may be healthy pups but they may develop these conditions at anytime upto 18 months old.
L2 is a neurometabolic disorder,HC is hereditary Cataracts which can leave a dog totally blind in both eyes by the time it's 18 months old.
L2/HC are tested for by the AHT,PHPV,PPSC are tested for by a specialist eye examiner.
None of these conditions are covered by insurance either as they are hereditary.
If you breed one litter or 20 you ARE classed as a breeder.
Oh And I noticed no answer to my previous questions,why are they Not KC Reg & Tested?
The info is out there,we have tests to insure the health welfare & future of SBT's,in my opinion if your not going to test don't breed.If you can't keep an entire bitch & dog apart whilst she's in season get one of them neutered.

The rescues are full of SBT's and crosses to bursting point,What was the point of this litter,it wasn't to improve the breed was it?

Sorry I feel Strongly about accidental litters, and breeding I also feel strongly about my breed and I will make no Apology for that.

HEALTH ISSUES IN THE STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is by nature a robust and healthy breed. However there are a couple of hereditary health issues which you need to be aware of if you are considering buying a new puppy or planning to breed from your bitch.

1. L-2-HGA Hydroxyglutaric Aciduria

In the past few years a small number of Staffords have been diagnosed with a metabolic disorder, its clinical name is L2 hydroxyglutaric aciduria or L-2-HGA. This condition manifests itself in varied ways with affected dogs displaying behavioural changes and dementia, anxiety attacks, having full blown seizures, as well as exercise intolerance and ataxia (unsteady gait), tremors and muscular stiffness. Dogs from totally different bloodlines have been found to be sufferers and the number of affected dogs diagnosed has risen. The disorder (and a similar linked disorder D-2 HGA) is found in humans, again very rare, but nevertheless devastating for those families affected by it. The disorder has an autosomal recessive method of inheritance, which means that both parents must be carriers of the affected gene to produce affected offspring.

Through excessive hard work not only on behalf of the Animal Health Trust at Newmarket and by people submitting blood and urine samples from the families of affected animals a genetic test has been determined to identify the carriers of the gene which causes L-2-HGA. 

IT IS THEREFORE ADVISABLE THAT ALL BREEDING STOCK BE SCREENED IN ORDER TO ERADICATE THIS CONDITION IN THE FUTURE. 


TESTING CAN TAKE UP TO 6 WEEKS FOR RESULTS SO PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THIS DONE IN PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE YOUR PLANNED MATING.


2. HC  HEREDITARY CATARACTS.

It is known that HC is inherited by and automal recessive path (i.e. both parents must be carriers of the defective gene to produce and affected offspring). HC is a progressive condition and this means that although a puppy is not born with cataracts they will start to develop at a juvenile age. (maybe from 8 months onwards), and will progress until the dog is totally blind. This condition is bilateral which means is affects both eyes equally. Thanks to the tireless research by the Animal Health Trust in Newmarket there is a now a DNA Test for Hereditary Cataracts. 

3. PHPV  PERSITENT HYPERPLASTIC PRIMARY VITREOUS 

The mode of inheritance of PHPV is not so clear, but it is known that it is a congenital condition (present at birth) and that it is not progressive. This means that if a puppy is born with PHPV it can be detected by ophthalmic screening from 6 weeks of age and if it is affected, whatever the condition of the problem at that stage it will not change throughout the dogs life. 

Either of the above conditions can be operated on, but it is a serious operation and can be traumatic and very expensive. It is not always covered by insurance due to the hereditary nature. 

Even though the genetic test is now available for Hereditary Cataracts it is still important to screen for PHPV.

4. PPSC  POSTERIOR POLAR SUBCAPSULAR CATARACT. 

This type of cataracts is found in other breeds, particularly the Labrador and Golden Retriever.
It usually remains as a small, punctuate cataract and doesnt usually lead to sight problems in these two breeds. It has been placed on schedule 3 of the BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme because a number of Staffords that have been through the Scheme have been found to have this type of cataract. This type of cataract cannot be detected through litter screening. The mode of inheritance is unknown and has a variable age of onset. BREEDING STOCK SHOULD BE TESTED ANNUALLY TO DETERMINE THAT THE DOG IS CERTIFIED CLEAR AT THE TIME OF MATING.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I wasn't been sarcastic but isn't important for our breeds health & welfare to test for all genetic hereditary conditions which by the way a vet can't test for.So yes they may be healthy pups but they may develop these conditions at anytime upto 18 months old.
> L2 is a neurometabolic disorder,HC is hereditary Cataracts which can leave a dog totally blind in both eyes by the time it's 18 months old.
> L2/HC are tested for by the AHT,PHPV,PPSC are tested for by a specialist eye examiner.
> None of these conditions are covered by insurance either as they are hereditary.
> ...


I cant be arsed to read all this crap you have spent writing.You say it is just your opinion but no one asked you for it. Go breed your perfect Kc dogs and leave others alone. like i say we live in a world that is not perfect im sure you would have had the bitch taken to the vets to have her pups destroyed at conception but im not that cruel, wether it was planned or not we have 8 beautiful pups and no doubt they will have none of the problems you have spent a long time preparing to hit me with. and im not going to explain myself to someone who thinks they are a breed above everyone else .

i urge the moderators of this forum to delete this whole forum editon.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

Lovely babies and pictures!


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

jafitz said:


> I cant be arsed to read all this crap you have spent writing.You say it is just your opinion but no one asked you for it. Go breed your perfect Kc dogs and leave others alone. like i say we live in a world that is not perfect im sure you would have had the bitch taken to the vets to have her pups destroyed at conception but im not that cruel, wether it was planned or not we have 8 beautiful pups and no doubt they will have none of the problems you have spent a long time preparing to hit me with. and im not going to explain myself to someone who thinks they are a breed above everyone else .
> 
> i urge the moderators of this forum to delete this whole forum editon.


Exactly,you can't be arsed,What sort of Breeder can't be arsed to do right by the bitch & welfare of the pups?
You have with that statement shown that you are not interested in the future of the SBT or the health & welfare of the breed.Like alot of others out to make a quick buck.
A bitch in whelp carries as much risk as terminating a litter.
I own an entire dog & bitch & have done so previously,never once have we had an accidental litter,nor to we plan on doing so.It's called RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP.
You also have an obilgation to the new puppy owners,lets hope these pups are fine because otherwise it will cost the new owners alot of expense in vet fees which they are quite entitled to claim back from you.
I didn't plan on hitting you with anything you should have KNOWN about these conditions or at least researched before allowing the pregnancy to continue.

Still the questions remain unanswered,
Why are they not KC'd or tested????

I don't see why the posts should be deleted either,it may very well educate somebody planning on breeding what tests are required before they go ahead or a person looking for a puppy on what tests the Parents should have.
I always advise people looking for a puppy to avoid unregistered litters as you can't be sure of the parentage and usually the litter are untested.
You may pay a little bit more but can be sure the parents are free from Diseases known in the SBT and the pup looks like the breed it is supposed to resemble.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Exactly,you can't be arsed,What sort of Breeder can't be arsed to do right by the bitch & welfare of the pups?
> You have with that statement shown that you are not interested in the future of the SBT or the health & welfare of the breed.Like alot of others out to make a quick buck.
> A bitch in whelp carries as much risk as terminating a litter.
> I own an entire dog & bitch & have done so previously,never once have we had an accidental litter,nor to we plan on doing so.It's called RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP.
> ...


If you can read what i said, i cant be arsed to take advice of someone i never asked advice from.

if i had asked for your input i would have openly asked, i didnt ask once for your opinion and you shouldnt have given it, you dont know me and you can presume what you like. im not going to waste my time explaining myself to someone like you, get your head out of your arse. When someone asks for your opinion then save all your time for them. I am not a breeder and although i am a responsible person these things happen. how many unplanned children are there out their, plenty, how many of these unplanned children are born with down syndrome the minority. How many people contract killer diseases once born? my dog i suppose has its own reasons why it is not Kc registered but i was willing to give the animal a well loved home. mistakes happen and im sorry we cannot all be as perfect as you make yourself out to be.

All my so called MUNGRELS are now sold, and i showed this thread to 3 of the new owners and they all laughed at you, your pathetic. *God gave us all these breeds of dog and it is only human interference that keeps dogs mating with their respective breeds. So depending on your beliefs about interference with gods plan then you are fighting a losing battle against the bible.* Kc means nothing to me only that the pet i have is given a good home is what matters..

this is my last post to you and i wont be returning to see your reply i try and block negative people like yourself from my life and i will do so now.

If you want to carry on this conversation then do so standing next to your mirror, so you can see how perfect you really are.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

Elena said:


> Lovely babies and pictures!


Thanks Elena there are still some nice people in the world, and the majority of the time someone like yourself makes a nice positive post thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

jafitz said:


> If you can read what i said, i cant be arsed to take advice of someone i never asked advice from.
> 
> if i had asked for your input i would have openly asked, i didnt ask once for your opinion and you shouldnt have given it, you dont know me and you can presume what you like. im not going to waste my time explaining myself to someone like you, get your head out of your arse. When someone asks for your opinion then save all your time for them. I am not a breeder and although i am a responsible person these things happen. how many unplanned children are there out their, plenty, how many of these unplanned children are born with down syndrome the minority. How many people contract killer diseases once born? my dog i suppose has its own reasons why it is not Kc registered but i was willing to give the animal a well loved home. mistakes happen and im sorry we cannot all be as perfect as you make yourself out to be.
> 
> ...


You said Quote "I cant be arsed to read all this crap you have spent writing."
Health testing is NOT CRAP,it's important.
And this is the reason why so many Rescues struggle!!!
I just wonder how many of your pups will end up in that situation.But you probably won't care because you've had your money.
Oh & I've never claimed to be perfect,but I'm not stupid, & I do right by my dogs & that means testing & been responsible.
Lets just hope in the current climate with the DDA that none of these dogs turn out to be Type...

Yes things happen,but it's how we choose to deal with it which makes the difference.
Whats the saying,Ignorance is bliss......


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

Puppy buyers should research the breed, and ask the breeder about health tests - if the new owners laughed at the posts voicing concerns about hereditary problems, they don't sound like responsible owners and I feel sorry for the future of the pups.

When I am looking for a puppy, one of the first things I ask about is health tests - if the breeder has not done them, I would not consider buying from them.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

kirksandallchins said:


> Puppy buyers should research the breed, and ask the breeder about health tests - if the new owners laughed at the posts voicing concerns about hereditary problems, they don't sound like responsible owners and I feel sorry for the future of the pups.
> 
> When I am looking for a puppy, one of the first things I ask about is health tests - if the breeder has not done them, I would not consider buying from them.


Thanks,
I was voicing my concerns because these tests are important.

It's not responsible ethical Breeders that add to the rescue situation but it's through accidental litters,cross breeding & downright irresponsible breeding.(as I believe is the case here)

My pups when they leave here are endorsed & sold under a contract stating at whatever age if the owner can't keep the dog we Will ALWAYS take it back.We bred the dog so therefore that makes us responsible for it, for the rest of it's life.It's important that we find the best possible homes for them & we have a waiting list for pups.
We don't sell to just anyone,we have a questionaire for them to fill out,we talk about the breed and responsible ownership.

We see to many " accidental litters " that were on purpose, and then it's left for rescues to pick up the peices.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

i wasnt going to return but, they were laughing at how pathetic sallyanne is being. when i didnt even request her wonderfull contribution. they understand the importance of tests. As they have all paid a deposit which will go towards the cost of any tests the vet reccomends when i ask them. not once have i said that tests wont be carried out. After a little research i have found that both the sire and my bitch are both clear for all the tests you mention by the way and the only reason the pups arent Kc registered is because of my bitches father, there is no Kc number for him on her pedigree for some reason. which means she couldnt be Kc reg and the silly club ends there im afraid. Like i say all pups sold and are looking realy healthy im glad we had them in a way my bitch has done fantasticly. ill upload some more pics soon for your pleasure. For any that dont mind seeing our babies.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2008)

jafitz said:


> i wasnt going to return but, they were laughing at how pathetic sallyanne is being. when i didnt even request her wonderfull contribution. they understand the importance of tests. As they have all paid a deposit which will go towards the cost of any tests the vet reccomends when i ask them. not once have i said that tests wont be carried out. After a little research i have found that both the sire and my bitch are both clear for all the tests you mention by the way and the only reason the pups arent Kc registered is because of my bitches father, there is no Kc number for him on her pedigree for some reason. which means she couldnt be Kc reg and the silly club ends there im afraid. Like i say all pups sold and are looking realy healthy im glad we had them in a way my bitch has done fantasticly. ill upload some more pics soon for your pleasure. For any that dont mind seeing our babies.


Could you please explain how your research has proved both the sire and dam are clear of all these diseases.
Unless you have certificates proving this word of mouth is useless I'm afraid.

Vets aren't up with tests for L2/HC and blood needs to be taken by them & sent to the AHT,along with the forms.I've previously explained PHPV & PPSC can only be done by specialist eye examiners and PPSC should be done annually.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

I dont need to explain myself to a nit picker. and i wont. if you have a problem get some help for it. i did not intend on getting attacked on what seemed to be a friendly website. you sit up on your perfect pedestal. I care more for animals more than you ever could because pieces of paper is all your worried about and the more tests you put your dogs through the more money it ensures you. I am making zilch from these pups and i never once planned too. Making money from interfering with dogs mating is cruel in my eye. people who knowingly mate dogs are the ones with the obsession and should think about why they arte doinf what they are doing. You say your improving a breed. If you go back far enough there will be another species of dog in your bloodlines and thats why KC is a farce to me. you cant get a total SBT all dogs are mungrels when you go back far enough.

The End
...........................
........................
.


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## Lisa M (Dec 30, 2007)

I think both of you have made good points. Everyone is entitled to an opinion yet no-one can force that upon another.
Might be better to call it quits and keep the forum a happy place to be?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> I dont need to explain myself to a nit picker. and i wont. if you have a problem get some help for it. i did not intend on getting attacked on what seemed to be a friendly website. you sit up on your perfect pedestal. I care more for animals more than you ever could because pieces of paper is all your worried about and the more tests you put your dogs through the more money it ensures you. I am making zilch from these pups and i never once planned too. Making money from interfering with dogs mating is cruel in my eye. people who knowingly mate dogs are the ones with the obsession and should think about why they arte doinf what they are doing. You say your improving a breed. If you go back far enough there will be another species of dog in your bloodlines and thats why KC is a farce to me. you cant get a total SBT all dogs are mungrels when you go back far enough.
> 
> The End
> ...........................
> ...


If caring about my dogs by testing them for hereditary diseases is nit picking then so be it.I want to ensure my pups live a long and happy life not a heartbreaking one whereby vet medication is needed to control a disease which with careful thought & consideration could have been avoided.
You say you care for your dogs I don't doubt that,but how you you possibly assume that I don't care for mine,I'm extremely fussy where my pups go,I test them for known diseases etc.......yet I don't care Yeah ok Whatever.
If that is the case why do I have people waiting for pups,that have been waiting for 12 months.These folks are prepared to wait because they want a well bred health tested puppy.We choose what we think is the best available stud dog,that will suit our bitch,research bloodlines for years beforehand,not use the dog around the corner just because.

Were not all the same as you I'm afraid,we don't just let dogs get on with it,because that's the way nature intended.If that is your answer may I suggest to take a trip to the local rescue kennels & see just how many SBT's & there crosses are there.Yet you feel the need to add to the problem.

You say the KC is a farce,well alot of people don't I'm afraid,it's more that a bit of paper to me,it gives me a complete traceable history of my dogs,what genetic,hereditary diseases are within there bloodlines.

Maybe you would like to take a look at this thread as i'm not the only who disagrees with this sort of breeding,
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/1292-p-baker8.html

As I previously said I feel strongly about irresponsible breeding,I feel strongly about the health & welfare of my breed and I will make no apology for that!


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

and like i have previously stated, this was not planned just like my birth was not planned and my daughters birth for that matter. This is a less than perfect world. I was not going to slaughter the pups after conception. This is against my beliefs. And im glad all the pups have happy homes with insurance fully paid for 1 whole year by me. which alone cost me £65 per pup. im sure you know the costs involved and im not going to preach about the amount of money i spent, christmas has been hard here for us but the pups are strong and i have no reason to believe they will be very healthy indeed. Now please let that be the end of it. we both have opinions and both have beliefs, mine follow more towards the bible and yours dont. lets not open another kettle of fish. 

Happy New Year to all..


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> and like i have previously stated, this was not planned just like my birth was not planned and my daughters birth for that matter. This is a less than perfect world. I was not going to slaughter the pups after conception. This is against my beliefs. And im glad all the pups have happy homes with insurance fully paid for 1 whole year by me. which alone cost me £65 per pup. im sure you know the costs involved and im not going to preach about the amount of money i spent, christmas has been hard here for us but the pups are strong and i have no reason to believe they will be very healthy indeed. Now please let that be the end of it. we both have opinions and both have beliefs, mine follow more towards the bible and yours dont. lets not open another kettle of fish.
> 
> Happy New Year to all..


So will you be prepared to take them back if the need ever arose?Have they got a sales agreement stating so...

I'm sorry to disappoint but mine leave here with more than just insurance.
They have,
Puppy Sales Agreement,
5 Generation Pedigree,
KC Registration Documents,Endorsed.
Copies of Health Tests certificates,
Insurance,
Photos on a CD from birth upto 8 weeks when they leave us,
Care sheet detailing, worming ,diet ,crate training sheet,toilet training info,
A Toy,
A piece of bedding,
A bag of Burns Mini Bites Puppy Food
Our Contact Info Stating we are available at anytime with 24/7 support & advice if the new owners need us.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Having followed this thread with interest and I might add a little disbelief at some of the posts, it brought to mind an incident that happened a few years ago.
A family answered an add in the local paper for a litter of G.S.Ds. Having seen both parents and being told by the breeder that he was not really a breeder as this had been an "accidental " litter and being assured that both parents were healthy they decided to purchase a puppy.
11 months down the line the said puppy was diagnosed as having severe hip dysplacia. They contacted the breeder who was very sympathetic and offered them a complete refund of the purchase price if they returned the pup to him. On asking what would happen to the dog after it was returned the breeder said he would have it put to sleep. The family were not prepered to part with their now much loved pet and decided to take the matter to court.
The breeders defence in court was that this had been an accidental mating, he had not had any of the health checks done as he had not "intended" to breed. He also pointed out that even if the tests had been done that was no guarentee that his dogs offspring would have been free of any hereditary defects.

The court ruled that the Accidental mating had occured due to the negligence of the "breeder" and that it was irresponsible to keep an unneutered dog and bitch together in the same household and presume that an accident would never happen.
The court went on to say that while they accepted that health testing was no guarentee that the offspring would remain healthy, it would have gone in the breeders favour that he had done everything in his power to try and prevent such defects being passed on. They also commented that to expect this family to give up their much loved pet knowing it would not be treated but would be put to sleep was totally unreasonable.
They ordered that the breeder should refund half of the purchase price, pay all veterinary bills relating to the hip dysplasia and pay all court fees. The breeder was also reminded that when goods change hands for a sum of money "including livestock" that a contract is entered into between the buyer and the seller under the sale of goods act.

I WONDER WHAT THE COURT WOULD HAVE MADE OF..............
."I COULDN'T BE ARSED WITH ALL THAT CRAP"


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

i dont think you'll have any problems selling those pups and for someone who seriously wants a dog the time of year should make no difference!... love the rotty one!!!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Majestic Mayhem said:


> Unfortunately staffies are going out of vogue at the moment, visit any dog rescue centre and the're full of them, their popularity was their downfall, seen as "Bling" they've now been ousted as the dog "to have" by the bigger mastiffs and mastiff crosses!


surely this is a good thing... at least they've more chance of going to loving homes than becomming trophy dogs for some chav scum!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Sallyanne at it again... who you think you are... the breeder police...? I appreciate what you're saying but it's the way you go about it. You need to be a lot less forcefull with your opinions!! You are not the law!!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Magik said:


> Sallyanne at it again... who you think you are... the breeder police...? I appreciate what you're saying but it's the way you go about it. You need to be a lot less forcefull with your opinions!! You are not the law!!


I understand that,but SBT's are my breed that I've owned for 20 yrs.
Not testing when there are KNOWN conditions which can result in fits/seizures and blindness is downright IRRESPONSIBLE.

Testing does not ensure we get more money at all,testing means I have done all in my power to ensure a healthy pup,who will live a long & happy life.

Some breeders or rather BYB do not test because it swallows up a cut of there profit.
People who have the breeds best interest at heart do not do things like this.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jan-c said:


> Having followed this thread with interest and I might add a little disbelief at some of the posts, it brought to mind an incident that happened a few years ago.
> A family answered an add in the local paper for a litter of G.S.Ds. Having seen both parents and being told by the breeder that he was not really a breeder as this had been an "accidental " litter and being assured that both parents were healthy they decided to purchase a puppy.
> 11 months down the line the said puppy was diagnosed as having severe hip dysplacia. They contacted the breeder who was very sympathetic and offered them a complete refund of the purchase price if they returned the pup to him. On asking what would happen to the dog after it was returned the breeder said he would have it put to sleep. The family were not prepered to part with their now much loved pet and decided to take the matter to court.
> The breeders defence in court was that this had been an accidental mating, he had not had any of the health checks done as he had not "intended" to breed. He also pointed out that even if the tests had been done that was no guarentee that his dogs offspring would have been free of any hereditary defects.
> ...


Excellent Post!!!

I might add there is no cure for L2 only drugs to control it,even a dog getting excited as sbt's do, can trigger a full blown fit.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I understand that,but SBT's are my breed that I've owned for 20 yrs.
> Not testing when there are KNOWN conditions which can result in fits/seizures and blindness is downright IRRESPONSIBLE.
> 
> Testing does not ensure we get more money at all,testing means I have done all in my power to ensure a healthy pup,who will live a long & happy life.
> ...


like I said.... I'm not disagreeing with you... it's just the way you go about it... this lady is clearly doing her best and cares for her pups.. I've seen this in other threads and think it is totally unfair when people jump on them. I understand you have the breeds best interest at heart but try and have people feelings at heart too before you jump on them!!

p.s as for Jan-c's "excellent post" she gets all her info from me!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Fair enough,it just makes me so damn angry.

Someone could buy a pup in good faith only for it to have these diseases,because the Breeder couldn't be bothered to test.That is also included in properly caring for the pups.
How would that be explained,to the owners who have a ill dog/pup,watching it fit,knowing that every fit could get worse than the one before,their hearts breaking,their children upset......
All because IRRESPONSIBLE Breeders don't test.

I sincerely hope these pups have gone onto good homes & don't end up where the majority do in rescue.Our breed rescues are strugging,local & national ones are full of SBT's & there crosses,why because of thoughtless,irresponsible breeding.

I will add we haven't bred for 12 years and we took a dog back we bred when he was 2 1/2 yrs old because the owner couldn't keep him.He was later rehomed to a very good close family friend and no he went for free,a good home was more important than money.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Fair enough,it just makes me so damn angry.
> 
> Someone could buy a pup in good faith only for it to have these diseases,because the Breeder couldn't be bothered to test.That is also included in properly caring for the pups.
> How would that be explained,to the owners who have a ill dog/pup,watching it fit,knowing that every fit could get worse than the one before,their hearts breaking,their children upset......
> ...


I am not a breeder this was a one off litter. and my bitch is being spayed. And i will be keeping in touch with all the pups wherever they go. period.

So if the rescue centres are full of them why do you keep breeding them. that to me is damn right irresponsable! And there would be more homes for the recued dogs! And thats not just aimed at you its aimed at all SBT breeders.

POt Calling THE KETTLE BLACK!!! you know the problems with rescue centres yet you still choose to saturate the breed.

cheers for all the positive comments.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> So if the rescue centres are full of them why do you keep breeding them. that to me is damn right irresponsable! And there would be more homes for the recued dogs! And thats not just aimed at you its aimed at all SBT breeders.
> 
> POt Calling THE KETTLE BLACK!!!
> 
> cheers for all the positive comments.


Why because I'm extremely strict where my pups go,I haven't bred for 12 years and I'm prepared to take back any pup/dog I bred regardless of it's age,so therefore I'm not adding to the rescue crisis.That's the difference between BYB's & good reputable ethical Breeders.Very rarely does a dog from a good Breeder end up in rescue and if it does the Breeder will go and get it back.
I breed for myself because I want to improve on what I have and further my lines,I breed with the intention of keeping one or two pups from the litter,it's planned, I wish I could control the amount of pups there were,unfortunatly I can't so I have a waiting list for the other pups.
Some people don't want Rescue dogs especially those with no history or paperwork,& those people with kids.
Some people want to be able to compete in shows,you can't do that with rescue dogs.

Would you take one of your dogs back?
What if it's aggressive,what if it's ill & needs vet care?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Why because I'm extremely strict where my pups go,I haven't bred for 12 years and I'm prepared to take back any pup/dog I bred regardless of it's age,so therefore I'm not adding to the rescue crisis.That's the difference between BYB's & good reputable ethical Breeders.Very rarely does a dog from a good Breeder end up in rescue and if it does the Breeder will go and get it back.
> 
> Some people don't want Rescue dogs especially those with no history or paperwork,& those people with kids.
> Some people want to be able to compete in shows,you can't do that with rescue dogs.
> ...


Any GOOD breeder takes back puppies. and how would you know that a puppy from a good breeder doesn't end up in a recue centre. rarely do people buying puppies tell the breeder anything even with a contract.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> Any GOOD breeder takes back puppies. and how would you know that a puppy from a good breeder doesn't end up in a recue centre. rarely do people buying puppies tell the breeder anything even with a contract.


I check up on mine from time to time,if they go into rescue with breeders details the rescue contacts them & they go & get them back.
I know it's not foolproof,nothing is.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I check up on mine from time to time,if they go into rescue with breeders details the rescue contacts them & they go & get them back.
> I know it's not foolproof,nothing is.


ah i didn't know this.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

a friend of mine breeds American Bulldogs and he went back to check up on a pup to find it tied up outside in the rain. He took the pup back giving no refund! He still kept the pup and he's now a happy healthy adult dog!


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

I just dont buy into you squaring off against people with one time litters when you know the problem is happening yet you think that puppies with paperwork are better than mungrels all animals deserve to live once born or conceived.

you are worse than people like me who have acidental litters as your knowingly saturating the breed.

you should take up another breed instead of adding to the problem. where woud the SBT lovers go if there werent any breeders like you putting the other staffs in rescue centres. It may not be directly you doing it but it all adds up in the end. every pup you sell because it has paperwork and is a fantastic bloodline puts another staffy out of home. terrible it is simply terrible that you can preach about something yet you are adding to the problem without recognising it.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> I just dont buy into you squaring off against people with one time litters when you know the problem is happening yet you think that puppies with paperwork are better than mungrels all animals deserve to live once born or conceived.
> 
> you are worse than people like me who have acidental litters as your knowingly saturating the breed.
> 
> you should take up another breed instead of adding to the problem. where woud the SBT lovers go if there werent any breeders like you putting the other staffs in rescue centres. It may not be directly you doing it but it all adds up in the end. every pup you sell because it has paperwork and is a fantastic bloodline puts another staffy out of home. terrible it is simply terrible that you can preach about something yet you are adding to the problem without recognising it.


What a load of rubbish!
I love my breed, & hate to see it taken advantage of.It's BYB's like yourself that damage breeds.Proper SBT lovers as you call them,research the breed & go to recommended Reputable Breeders that test there dogs,How does me selling to a family put a dog out of a home?Rescues are not for everyone.
It may actually amaze you but our first SBT came from SBT Rescue.We then got involved with the showing side of the breed so brought a pup from a Breeder.
None of my dogs have ever gone through rescue.

If we make any profit on a litter a percentage goes to SBT Rescue and like I said we haven't bred for 12 yrs therefore not adding to the problem!
The majority of SBT's in rescue are poorly bred accidental litters.

I'll give you something though your posts are entertaining


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> So will you be prepared to take them back if the need ever arose?Have they got a sales agreement stating so...
> 
> I'm sorry to disappoint but mine leave here with more than just insurance.
> They have,
> ...


No pup is garanteed not to end up in rescue how ever carefull your are as to were your pups are placed, ANd no pup is garanteed a better life just because you let the new owners take a blanket and a toy and a cd with it growing up etc tc etc, No pup is garanteed an ill free life even if the parents are tested.
So ffs stop attacking the woman.
At the end of the day, Whether you breed the right way or the wrong way we are all adding more and more dogs in this world which as you say, We have enough of in rescues to pick from.
As i said earlier, beautifull pups x


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I check up on mine from time to time,if they go into rescue with breeders details the rescue contacts them & they go & get them back.
> I know it's not foolproof,nothing is.


What if the dog ends up in recue with no breeders details?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> No pup is garanteed not to end up in rescue how ever carefull your are as to were your pups are placed, ANd no pup is garanteed a better life just because you let the new owners take a blanket and a toy and a cd with it growing up etc tc etc, No pup is garanteed an ill free life even if the parents are tested.
> So ffs stop attacking the woman.
> As i said earlier, beautifull pups x


I'm not attacking anyone,it's called common sense.
I know that my pups will never develop the diseases known in the SBT as they are tested clear.

I do my best for my pups,no guarentees on anything but I will do everything in my power to protect my pups and the welfare of my breed.

The info is out there,we have tests available,there is no excuse I'm afraid.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

since when did they become your breed? and are you finding it tough being slammed with the taste of your own medicine? 

My posts are entertaining because as previously stated by other people on here. i have as much validity as you. Dont try and attack someone about tests and kc papers when you cant take the same when thrown right back at ya! You did your damage 12 years ago when you were breeding cant you see that?

like i said before POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> What if the dog ends up in recue with no breeders details?


As I said nothing is foolproof,I know where all my pups went,We only have two remaining out of our last litter that are still alive.I check up on them & recieved regular updates & pics.We have formed good strong friendships.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> since when did they become your breed? and are you finding it tough being slammed with the taste of your own medicine?
> 
> My posts are entertaining because as previously stated by other people on here. i have as much validity as you. Dont try and attack someone about tests and kc papers when you cant take the same when thrown right back at ya! You did your damage 12 years ago when you were breeding cant you see that?
> 
> like i said before POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.


Always on the defensive,
Read my previous posts!

Never had an accidental litter,I can honestly say I never will,never had any of my dogs go through rescue!
My breeding ethics are totally different to yours!

As I said BYB's do the most damage to breeds! FACT!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

How will you know who your pups *pups* are bred with? and what their pups might develop?
Or do you sell them with a no breeding contract?


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Always on the defensive,
> Read my previous posts!
> 
> Never had an accidental litter,I can honestly say I never will,never had any of my dogs go through rescue!
> ...


This may be the case but the the only reason why SBT without papers and tests end up in the rescue centres is because of extremists like yourself offering a better quality of dog if there is such a thing. In this world everyone wants the best and 12 years ago you were there helping the crisis.

And now because you are such a perfect BREEDER you can read the future and guarantee us that you will never have an accidental litter. i must applaud you. 

when will you stop im fed up now. till tomorrow all  good night


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> How will you know who your pups pups are bred with? and what their pups are going to develop?


As I said I check on them, all were neutered so no chance of pups.So no problems on that score.
We only had four of them we kept a bitch back & she was spayed due to whelping complications of her Dam.

When I breed I don't undertake it lightly,When I have what I want from the litter the bitch is ALWAYS Spayed.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

jafitz said:


> This may be the case but the the only reason why SBT without papers and tests end up in the rescue centres is because of extremists like yourself offering a better quality of dog if there is such a thing. In this world everyone wants the best and 12 years ago you were there helping the crisis.
> 
> And now because you are such a perfect BREEDER you can read the future and guarantee us that you will never have an accidental litter. i must applaud you.
> 
> when will you stop im fed up now.


I will NEVER have an accidental litter because I'm responsible,I am able to keep my dog & bitch apart.It's basic ownership if you can't do this then you shouldn't own entire dogs,get one of them neutered!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh Sorry, i thought you meant all the pups was neutered wile with you, wAS THINKING TO MESELF..what age do you blooming sell em at then :-O
SLAPS HEAD  blame the time  and the odd tipple  it don't mix


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> All your pups are neutered?
> Im not on about the bitch who has had the litter, Im on about the pups you sell and what sort of dogs they may be put with, and how can you garantee these people that have bought a pup of you will do the health test?


The 3 that were sold were neutered,the bitch we kept was spayed,so as I said no problem.
I insist on spaying or castrating if they are not shown & going as pets only,I also follow it up.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Oh Sorry, i thought you meant all the pups was neutered wile with you, wAS THINKING TO MESELF..what age do you blooming sell em at then :-O
> SLAPS HEAD  blame the time  and the odd tipple  it don't mix


LOL


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I will NEVER have an accidental litter because I'm responsible,I am able to keep my dog & bitch apart.It's basic ownership if you can't do this then you shouldn't own entire dogs,get one of them neutered!


WHO SAID I OWNED ENTIRE DOGS!

Be carefull what you say, it might come back to haunt you. regardless of how perfect you see yourself this is a less than perfect world.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

jafitz said:


> WHO SAID I OWNED ENTIRE DOGS!
> 
> Be carefull what you say, it might come back to haunt you. regardless of how perfect you see yourself this is a less than perfect world.


As I have stated I will Never have an accidental mating.No it's not a perfect world,but it's common sense & responsilbilty!

If you don't own an entire male how was it accidental?Even Worse,to be honest!


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

jafitz said:


> WHO SAID I OWNED ENTIRE DOGS!
> 
> Be carefull what you say, it might come back to haunt you. regardless of how perfect you see yourself this is a less than perfect world.


I had to read this post twice I thought to myself an "accidental" mating between two dogs that are not entire..............and they have produced puppies!!!!!!! Well, I never believed in miracles but perhaps I am wrong.......it has been known. I re-read all the posts again and see that the sire belongs to your uncle...........gosh that was a REAL "accident" then! Was it a case of (Your place or mine) I am begining to wonder if you are really from this planet.......or are you a martian that has been sent to wind us all up...............perhaps it was an immaculate conception...............perhaps I'm going mad.....perhaps you are related to Magik! Who knows


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2008)

jan-c said:


> ..perhaps you are related to Magik! Who knows


 why do you say that? is this member extremely handsome too?


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jilly said:


> .............................uarrrrrrrrr...................................................................................................................whoops sorry I've just thrown up again.......
> 
> this only seems to happen after reading Magiks posts?????...
> 
> ...


oh come on girls.... how could you be so cruel to this well breed male.. You dont hate me really...? do you


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes I am fully KC registered and have excellent bloodlines with many champions in my blood. I have an excellent temprament and could hump your leg all day long if required!!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Did you have all the relevant health tests done for your breed????


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Did you have all the relevant health tests done for your breed????


hahaha... yes I did and my mother had all the relevant checks before she was mated with my father.

You may be interested in my stud services???


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Hmmmm no I may just add to the over populated rescue centres!!!!!! So keep ya stud services to yourself


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm a fine example of a man... if it's breeding you're after you wont get much better than me!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

LOL PMSL..........
Hmmmmm will he add those ones?


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jilly said:


> Yes..........but you haven't had the relevant healths tests have you!!!!
> 
> The best brother a girl could wish for - Elena
> I wish all my kids were like him - Esined
> ...


haha... good job I have broad shoulders... 
Jilly I think you really are warming to me... can I take you out sometime,,, like a date?


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> LOL PMSL..........
> Hmmmmm will he add those ones?


I'll add them.... might edit them a little, P.S if you're waiting for Jilly to reply you better get comfy - I know people with no hands who type faster than her!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Well Debbie she forgot to add on the end "Dictated by Jan-C


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I should have known it came from a fellow Dweeb Member LOL


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

jan-c said:


> Well Debbie she forgot to add on the end "Dictated by Jan-C


Hey jan, you look nice this evening xxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Magik said:


> haha... good job I have broad shoulders...
> Jilly I think you really are warming to me... can I take you out sometime,,, like a date?


Would that be to Pluto or Mars? Knowing you it will probably be Uranus!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

jan-c said:


> Would that be to Pluto or Mars? Knowing you it will probably be Uranus!


does this mean you're talking to me??? xxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Is that a yes? Do I have a date?


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> I should have known it came from a fellow Dweeb Member LOL


oh come on,,, I get as good as I give!!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I dont think this is the place to discuss what you give and take - it is an open forum and children could be reading......keep it in the closet for now


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> I dont think this is the place to discuss what you give and take - it is an open forum and children could be reading......keep it in the closet for now


see you're as bad as me!!!,,,,, nice to know I've brought you down to my level!!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I have always been on this level but sometimes .......just sometimes.......somethings require you to be mature 
And dont think you can run off and think I am in your hareem either - THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

well the vet said it is quite natural for my bitch to not bleed. how was i supposed to know when she was in season. oh hang on let me grab hold of that responsable owner line.... ok cant quite reach it!!

I bought my bitch at 6 months from a friend of a friend. i could have spent £800 on a kc dog with all health tests and lined some arrogant breeders pocket. but i decided on millie. With millie i got no history, just her pedigree papers. well no bleeding since i had her she must be spayed. hang on dont just assume!!! be RESPONSABLE. no i fell short again..i might catch it soon.

Then millie starts gettting fatter and fatter!! omg shes pregnant.. 


by the way magik you make me laugh.. but what you say is very true.. about breeding humans.. you put things into perspective entirely. this poor lady thinks she has been helping the breed or in her words "HER BREED" when all along she was only adding to the problem and even worse than accidental littters she knew she was adding to it.. you can only laugh.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Magik makes everyone laugh, and they all love him no matter what they say, he's a bit of a peace maker, i wouldn't be suprised if he got nominated for the Nobel peace prize this year.


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Jaf - I think it rather rude the way you have taken some advice on board or not as the case may be - Thats rather ignorant to say that Sally has added to the over population of dogs in rescue - none of hers have been in rescue as far as she is aware. So the reputable breeders should all stop breeding so that the back yard breeder crew can breed yet more for the high demand there would be??
Hmmm I would rather buy from a reputable breeder where I know all health checks have been done, they have been bred for temperament through careful pedigree matching etc etc 
And yes I do own a rescue SBT who is speyed!!! The rescue centre close to me would shoot me down if they thought I had been breeding from my rescue girl - it is one of their policies to spey etc....


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

Debbie said:


> Jaf - I think it rather rude the way you have taken some advice on board or not as the case may be - Thats rather ignorant to say that Sally has added to the over population of dogs in rescue - none of hers have been in rescue as far as she is aware. So the reputable breeders should all stop breeding so that the back yard breeder crew can breed yet more for the high demand there would be??
> Hmmm I would rather buy from a reputable breeder where I know all health checks have been done, they have been bred for temperament through careful pedigree matching etc etc
> And yes I do own a rescue SBT who is speyed!!! The rescue centre close to me would shoot me down if they thought I had been breeding from my rescue girl - it is one of their policies to spey etc....


hi debbie i wasnt trying to imply it was totally her fault but she knew there was a problem with saturation of the breed. yet she admits to have bred and sold pups on. Where a pup that she knowingly produces goes to a good home, a rescued staff could have gone. she was attacking me from the start and was trying to get a reaction from me. im just trying to level the playing field here deb.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

jafitz said:


> hi debbie i wasnt trying to imply it was totally her fault but she knew there was a problem with saturation of the breed. yet she admits to have bred and sold pups on. Where a pup that she knowingly produces goes to a good home, a rescued staff could have gone. she was attacking me from the start and was trying to get a reaction from me. im just trying to level the playing field here deb.


There has always been rescue problems,but it wasn't as bad 12 years ago as it is now.
I don't breed & breed,I only breed when I want something for myself,I don't believe by people buying a puppy from me it's putting a rescue out of a home,these people want a well bred health tested puppy that they can bring up with small children.I always encourage people to take on a rescue first before buying a pup,this is covered on the first page on our website.

I haven't attacked you,I simply stated the black & tan (Rotty) his colour will not change this was confirmed yesterday by a close friend of ours who awards CC's for SBT's and I asked two simple questions which puppy buyers tend to ask,would your reply to them have been the same as which it was to me.
Yes I do admit to selling pups on under contract,with pedigree & registration papers,one went to a breed Judge as a stud fee again a close friend,one went to our GP,and the other to a family,this one came back to us when he was 2 1/2 years old.
So by breeding a litter of four pups I saturated the breed.....Please.

Let me Educate you,not all Breeders are arrogant they want secure life long secure homes for there pups,they health test,they do whats right by there dogs & breed,there is usually a good valid reason why they breed,they don't breed very often and they certainly don't charge £800 for a puppy.

Could you please explain how Breeders that health test,that only breed occasionally,never advertise,have homes lined up before pups are born,never have dogs go through rescue,take dogs back they bred are worse by your own admission, than a Breeder who says it was an accident,but it wasn't,does not health test because it's takes a % of there profit,will breed every season,still claiming accidental,(or like the excuse you gave didn't know),doesn't register pups,doesn't take them back they go through rescue because I don't understand your reasoning whatsoever.I'm sorry you feel this way.By you taking on your bitch the same goes for folks that have brought pups from you,it only encourages those Breeders to keep on breeding,no thought,no research,no tests,to be honest no nothing.

In your earlier post you say two CH's are in there,Cradbury Danny's Boy,it should be CH Cradbury Flash Danny Boy DOB 13/05/1979& Nethertonian Storm....It should be Nethertonian Storm Trooper.Those two dogs are going back years & would have very little influence today.The litter I produced 12 years ago was by a Cradbury bred dog.

I assume from one of your earlier posts that your bitch is relatively young too.


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

i have no more to say here.. i could carrry on but you wont give in..


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> I have always been on this level but sometimes .......just sometimes.......somethings require you to be mature
> And dont think you can run off and think I am in your hareem either - THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!


oh come one... do one thing that scares you everyday! Give us a kiss



Jilly said:


> SAME HERE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Good night my sisters 'The charmed ones' otherwise know as the 'dweeb ones'
> 
> KEEP FIGHTING THE DEMONS!!!!!!!! (evil Magik)


Dont fight it darling....xxxx



Jenny Olley said:


> Magik makes everyone laugh, and they all love him no matter what they say, he's a bit of a peace maker, i wouldn't be suprised if he got nominated for the Nobel peace prize this year.


I've always liked you Jenny xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Could you please explain how Breeders that health test,that only breed occasionally,never advertise,have homes lined up before pups are born,never have dogs go through rescue,take dogs back they bred are worse by your own admission, than a Breeder who says it was an accident,but it wasn't,does not health test because it's takes a % of there profit,will breed every season,still claiming accidental,(or like the excuse you gave didn't know),doesn't register pups,doesn't take them back they go through rescue because I don't understand your reasoning whatsoever.I'm sorry you feel this way.By you taking on your bitch the same goes for folks that have brought pups from you,it only encourages those Breeders to keep on breeding,no thought,no research,no tests,to be honest no nothing.
> 
> In your earlier post you say two CH's are in there,Cradbury Danny's Boy,it should be CH Cradbury Flash Danny Boy DOB 13/05/1979& Nethertonian Storm....It should be Nethertonian Storm Trooper.Those two dogs are going back years & would have very little influence today.The litter I produced 12 years ago was by a Cradbury bred dog.
> 
> I assume from one of your earlier posts that your bitch is relatively young too.





jafitz said:


> i have no more to say here.. i could carrry on but you wont give in..


So you can't explain the above or your reasoning why then?


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

no i can sit here evryday and write for you but i am fed up with your tone, and mood, and your beliefs that are against my religion...


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

ok this is getting stupid... and that's coming from me!! What's your religion got to do with it? Who do you worship? Most ladies round here worship me... feel free to follow suit!


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Magik said:


> ok this is getting stupid... and that's coming from me!! What's your religion got to do with it? Who do you worship? Most ladies round here worship me... feel free to follow suit!


I think he's a bloke Magik, bit of a clue in the name James.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jenny Olley said:


> I think he's a bloke Magik, bit of a clue in the name James.


oh well I'm no homophobic... come worship me boy!! Hey jenny... do you like your mention in my new sig?


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

jafitz said:


> no i can sit here evryday and write for you but i am fed up with your tone, and mood, and your beliefs that are against my religion...


come and join the fun bits


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

jafitz said:


> no i can sit here evryday and write for you but i am fed up with your tone, and mood, and your beliefs that are against my religion...


Whatever but I don't see what relavance that has to do with Breeding 

My beliefs - This should be interesting,please tell me what they are then


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Magik said:


> oh well I'm no homophobic... come worship me boy!! Hey jenny... do you like your mention in my new sig?


Notice you got one in there from me lol!!!

He's had all the relavant health checks! lol!!!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Notice you got one in there from me lol!!!
> 
> He's had all the relavant health checks! lol!!!


all i need to do now is check on your hips and we can start breeding....x


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Magik said:


> all i need to do now is check on your hips and we can start breeding....x


Lol,your such a flirt......

Bucket of cold water needed me thinks


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Lol,your such a flirt......
> 
> Bucket of cold water needed me thinks


why am I gettin you all hot sallyanne? x


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

Magik said:


> why am I gettin you all hot sallyanne? x


I think she means for you


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Magik said:


> why am I gettin you all hot sallyanne? x


Nooooooo,to pour over your head to cool you off lol!!!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Nooooooo,to pour over your head to cool you off lol!!!


yeh right... you just dont want to admit it incase any of your Magik hating friends see... dont worry we all chatted last night, they now approve of me so we can be together at last....x


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Magik said:


> oh well I'm no homophobic... come worship me boy!! Hey jenny... do you like your mention in my new sig?


Yes, my son might be a bit upset, but I don't suppose he'll ever see it.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jenny Olley said:


> Yes, my son might be a bit upset, but I don't suppose he'll ever see it.


haha I forgot you have a son... clever boy right?


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Clever, handsome, talented, but there again i am a bit biased.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jenny Olley said:


> Clever, handsome, talented, but there again i am a bit biased.


you talking about me or your real sun?


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Magik said:


> you talking about me or your real sun?


Whoever you want it to be about


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jenny Olley said:


> Whoever you want it to be about


awww thanks Jen xxxxx


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Magik said:


> Sallyanne at it again... who you think you are... the breeder police...? I appreciate what you're saying but it's the way you go about it. You need to be a lot less forcefull with your opinions!! You are not the law!!


Pity that poor breeding practises are not against the law.

Wonder if you would feel the same if you bought a new car, washing machine etc? the manufacturers are expected to exercise quality control in their production.

Seems only in dog breeding are poor standards actually defended because the results may be cute.

The poor quality toys that Trading Standards confiscate at this time of year that can injure our children are cute too.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> Any GOOD breeder takes back puppies. and how would you know that a puppy from a good breeder doesn't end up in a recue centre. rarely do people buying puppies tell the breeder anything even with a contract.


All my pups are ear tattooed so should they be passed on without my knowledge and end up in rescue, I can be traced as theri breeder as the NDTR always keep the breeder details.

Some people you do loose touch with over the years of ownership, they move house and forget to let the breeder know etc. So this helps to give me peace of mind that I can check up if I hear of a dog of my breed in rescue for their ear tattoos, and of course rescue can contact me.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Jilly said:


> Excellent new signature magik


Thanks Jilly x


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

jafitz said:


> I just dont buy into you squaring off against people with one time litters when you know the problem is happening yet you think that puppies with paperwork are better than mungrels all animals deserve to live once born or conceived.
> 
> you are worse than people like me who have acidental litters as your knowingly saturating the breed.
> 
> you should take up another breed instead of adding to the problem. where woud the SBT lovers go if there werent any breeders like you putting the other staffs in rescue centres. It may not be directly you doing it but it all adds up in the end. every pup you sell because it has paperwork and is a fantastic bloodline puts another staffy out of home. terrible it is simply terrible that you can preach about something yet you are adding to the problem without recognising it.


According to statistics here: No Puppy Mills Canada - What is a Puppy Mill? it is the one off casual litters that actually are the largest proportion of rescue intake, even more than the puppy farms, and that in the USA where puppy mills supply lots of Pet stores with pups which is less frequently seen in the UK.

Have those who are supporting this breeder visited a rescue centre recently and seen the litters of SBT and SBT crosses and the only recognisable purebreds are very poor examples of their breeds, so from similar one off or don't care to do it properly breeders.

The problem is made worse in that the people prepared to buy such poorly bred pups are least likely to themselves be knowledgeable and have thought out dog ownership. So badly bred litter, no knowledgeable breeder to offer after sales advice, leads to dogs being given up on when not as they thought life with dog would be.


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Magik - I shall treat you with the contempt you deserve ok....
Right for one thing get your sig sorted out - I DO take offence to you putting that kind of shite on there - you really are treading a VERY fine line - do you ever know when to give in??? How about quit while you are ahead?? do you know that one???
Hmmmm above your station??? ring any bells????
Take your tablets and give your ever expanding head a shake and get with the real world
THANKYOU


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> ..............................
> At the end of the day, Whether you breed the right way or the wrong way we are all adding more and more dogs in this world which as you say, We have enough of in rescues to pick from.
> As i said earlier, beautifull pups x


So if there are lots of dogs in rescue who should stop breeding those who do things "the right way"(which is what has been happening for years good breeders reducing their breding to a minimum to maintain their lines) or the ones breeding the "wrong way"?

If only those breeding the right way bred there would virtually be no dogs in rescue as all those in need of re-homing would go beck to the breeder for re-homing. Instead of dogs in rescues there would simply be referral services to match dogs who needed re-homing with suitable new owners.

There would still be the occasional dog whose breeder couldn't be traced or had died, become ill etc, as breeders circumstances can sometimes change too.

Those breeders who truly try to ensure any pup they bred will come back to them keep in touch with owners and also permanently identify pups by Tattoo or microchip and ensure they can be traced by keeping the registries up to date with their details.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Magik - I shall treat you with the contempt you deserve ok....
> Right for one thing get your sig sorted out - I DO take offence to you putting that kind of shite on there - you really are treading a VERY fine line - do you ever know when to give in??? How about quit while you are ahead?? do you know that one???
> Hmmmm above your station??? ring any bells????
> Take your tablets and give your ever expanding head a shake and get with the real world
> THANKYOU


sorry only wanted to make you smile...


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Hmmmmmm irritate me yes......make me smile....hmmmm nah but I do laugh at you PMSL


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Hmmmmmm irritate me yes......make me smile....hmmmm nah but I do laugh at you PMSL


I was dreading opening this thread when I'd seen that you had replied... thought I was in for a right telling off! thanks for been gentle with me  xxx


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Dont you have an online "Mummy" on here somewhere - she should be telling you off and reeling your head back in....


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## jafitz (Dec 23, 2007)

Brainless said:


> So if there are lots of dogs in rescue who should stop breeding those who do things "the right way"(which is what has been happening for years good breeders reducing their breding to a minimum to maintain their lines) or the ones breeding the "wrong way"?
> 
> If only those breeding the right way bred there would virtually be no dogs in rescue as all those in need of re-homing would go beck to the breeder for re-homing. Instead of dogs in rescues there would simply be referral services to match dogs who needed re-homing with suitable new owners.
> 
> ...


well breeding like with like is interfering with nature.. your interfering with the bible. i am a christian. In my opinion as a christian i see that breeding like with like is infact a sin.

(Galatians 4:4,5).
Let us not interfere with the wisdom of God.

The subject of conversation is very undesirable we have got know it all sally and a guy who cant keep his penis in his pants for 5 minutes.

see you all.. take care ands have a very nice 2008


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Any One Got Change For A Shilling??????


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Me,  lmao


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Me,  lmao


Thanks love....... I need half a sixpence to buy a fruit loaf with for my Scientology friend Tom


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

jafitz said:


> well breeding like with like is interfering with nature.. your interfering with the bible. i am a christian. In my opinion as a christian i see that breeding like with like is infact a sin.
> 
> (Galatians 4:4,5).
> Let us not interfere with the wisdom of God.
> ...


In that case give your pups away,
I must have interferred with nature then after my son was born with a cleft and he's had two major ops to fix it and maybe a 3rd one,what a terrible Parent I am!
And what a terrible dog owner I am for doing whats right by the breed & my dogs.

Pity you didn't remember this bible bashing stuff when you went spamming other websites and got banned - amazing what a search on the net throws up!


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

jafitz said:


> well breeding like with like is interfering with nature.. your interfering with the bible. i am a christian. In my opinion as a christian i see that breeding like with like is infact a sin.
> 
> (Galatians 4:4,5).
> Let us not interfere with the wisdom of God.
> ...


Sure are backtracking now!

Didn't you write on 31/12/2007

Quote: ".....we are all not perfect and all i can be thankfull for is that the accident happened between two staffs and we havent ended up with mungrels......"

Man your a hypocrite. Your trying to justify the unjustifiable. Breeding should e for the betterment of the breeds only, or dogs for legitimate working purposes.

Churning out puppies from dogs just because they can is unethical.

Dogs are far removed from nature being domesticated, where they are our responsibility and population control is up to us.

Wild Canids do not breed willy nilly only the fittest get to be Alpha and reproduce and the mortality rate among their offspring is very high, and if overpopulation occurs they starve.

I suppose you would advocate our dogs become feral breeding as they please (so as not to interfere with nature), and then being rounded up and poisoned/shot etc or killed on the roads as they are in so many places in the World.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Brainless said:


> Sure are backtracking now!
> 
> Didn't you write on 31/12/2007
> 
> ...


Great Post,Totally Agree with you.

Funny how unethical Breeders always go defensive to justify themselves,avoid questions and change the subject completely.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Dont you have an online "Mummy" on here somewhere - she should be telling you off and reeling your head back in....


she's vanished!!!... good job you've beenaround to keep me in line!

Jilly - how do I apply to join that new members club.. sounds great!!


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## Lisa M (Dec 30, 2007)

jafitz said:


> well breeding like with like is interfering with nature.. your interfering with the bible. i am a christian. In my opinion as a christian i see that breeding like with like is infact a sin.
> 
> (Galatians 4:4,5).
> Let us not interfere with the wisdom of God.
> ...


and this is a desirable subject?

That is a bad way to use bible quotes. You shouldn't use it to make you feel better within your argument!! What you are now saying is that nature should always take it's course?!?! That include sea defences? DNA testing? Fetal scans? operations? medical help? 
I kept out of this really but now i have to say you have ruined your arguments by being childish, preaching and insulting other people within this post.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

Jilly said:


> I thought you'd like it! but you don't have to join dear, you're already the founder member!!


great news!!! I knew I was special!!!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

Magik said:


> great news!!! I knew I was special!!!


Special needs


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

hee hee lol, you hit the nail on the head there,


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