# Curling lips



## merlin39 (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi all, I think merlin is very much coming into his hormones! Sometime completely ignores us when out ESP if he isn't sure if food is involved! Question I have is when he gets over excited he gets quite boisterous and when told no or is removed from where he shouldn't be he curls his lip, very occasionally with growl, sometimes he does a mock lunge. At no point does it feel like it aggression it's just like he is doggy stomping his feet with displeasure at not being able to do what he wants! Is this correct reading of behaviour or is it aggression? He is also still very mouthy (6 months) will this subside soon?


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2010)

Sounds like you are reading him right! Curling of the lip should not be allowed - you need to check him sooner rather then later! Many will disagree with me but I place my hand on the shoulder/neck make them 'look' and a firm NO


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## Hols<3Millie (Sep 2, 2010)

tbh my methods similar, if my dog ever growls at me i cross my arms, keep eye contact and take a step closer to show her i'm not at all intimidated. Baring in mind my dog is a rescue so she will be a little more submissive  x


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sounds like you are reading him right! Curling of the lip should not be allowed - you need to check him sooner rather then later! Many will disagree with me but I place my hand on the shoulder/neck make them 'look' and a firm NO


there is a good reason many would disagree with your method of correction - hand on shoulders = restraint
'look' = direct, confrontational eye contact at such close quarters
'NO' = challenge to the dog

in a puppy the chances are that the fight or flee instinct isnt very strong...in an older dog this action would quite possibly lead to a bite.

back to the puppy

it sounds like he is testing how much he can get away with - finding his boundaries. it is vital that the lip curling, growling and lunging are not allowed to escalate into something worse.

the most effective method of dealing with a defiant, possibly dominant, dog is to IGNORE AND WALK AWAY. they very quickly learn that their actions will result in LACK OF ATTENTION and YOU ARE NOT A THREAT

lip curling is not always a sign of aggression - it can also be a sign that the dog is intimidated or unsure of what is going to happen next.

be firm with your commands but for goodness sake dont put yourself in the position of being so close to the dog that he bites out of fear!!!!
work on building his self confidence around you and keeping high energy play to open spaces where he can let off steam. also, work hard on recall, sit, and down at random intervals during play so the he understands that when you say play is over - play is over. that will make his boisterousness easier for you to cope with and manage. 
:thumbup:


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2010)

lucysnewmum said:


> there is a good reason many would disagree with your method of correction - hand on shoulders = restraint
> 'look' = direct, confrontational eye contact at such close quarters
> 'NO' = challenge to the dog
> 
> ...


Urm! don't agree! My young dog has are and has NEVER shown any form of agression from me nor anyone else! The LOOK is an important factor that many trainers work . And lip curling IS a sign of agression!!!


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2010)

lucysnewmum said:


> there is a good reason many would disagree with your method of correction - hand on shoulders = restraint
> 'look' = direct, confrontational eye contact at such close quarters
> 'NO' = challenge to the dog
> 
> ...


To elaborate I fail to see how anyone can fail to see how lip curling is NOT a form of agression!! It is all about reading your dog!! A dog that curls its lip is warning you!!! it is saying plain and simple 'back off' otherwise I COULD bite! no way to dress that up - plain and simple thats what it means!!
DT


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lucysnewmum said:


> it sounds like he is testing how much he can get away with - finding his boundaries. it is vital that the lip curling, growling and lunging are not allowed to escalate into something worse.
> 
> the most effective method of dealing with a defiant, possibly dominant, dog is to IGNORE AND WALK AWAY. they very quickly learn that their actions will result in LACK OF ATTENTION and YOU ARE NOT A THREAT
> 
> :thumbup:


So the dog issues a threat to you and you back off? That IS letting him get away with it! If he challenges you and you don't dish out some form of consequence, he will do it again. Rather than walk away yourself, the dog should be removed from your presence and then ignored.


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## merlin39 (Jun 7, 2010)

ok this had got quite heated and i'm confused now! i do think that walking away gives the msg that if he does that i go away and its ok to carry on. i'm a teacher and kids would certainly see it that way. 
i aslo think you shouldn't be too full on in their face. if you follow trainers like CM then he advocates putting dogs in a submissive position until the situation has calmed.
i feel i must clarify as merlin doesn't bear his teeth he just wiggles his mustache as us, sometimes gives a pathetic grumble as if to say 'but please' then will get distracted wit something else! i think in my original post i gave the impression he was bearing teeth and snapping which he isn't.
we can take stuff off him including food, his food manners are fine he will wait until i say ok before eating food or treats so i really don't think he is agressive just wondered if it was teenage hormones.


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