# Calling all people with dogs in estate cars!



## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi Guys. 

We have recently changed cars from a hatchback to an estate. This means Leo (who used to travel on the back seats with a harness and seatbelt) can now have more space in the boot, and leave room for more passengers so we can all go out together.

I have been conditioning him to spending time in the boot, starting with jumping in, laying down etc. He's not happy when the boot closes but when I sit with him from the back seat and hand him treats, he is ok. 

Found a few snagging points though....Securing him without a dog guard. I still want him to have a harness and tethering system as I think it helps him keep balance on roundabouts, he is quite a master at leaning into his harness and I think it makes him feel more secure. I think the dog guards are more aimed at protecting us, I would rather keep him from slamming into the guard. Does anyone use a harness and seatbelt in the boot? I think we have Isofix points...is this good enough, like the seatbelts in the back?

Another slight issue....how do you keep their tails from getting slammed in the boot!? At the moment I'm folding the bumper flap over his tail, is there any other way to do this?

I should add he has never been crate trained, and wouldn't like to put him in a crate in the car either.

Will he ever get over his fear of the boot closing, and will we be able to use a harness and seatbelt in the boot?


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

When he gets in, what does he do? (just wondering how his tail is potentially getting shut when the boot closes)

Maisie jumps in, sits down and I say 'watch your nose'  - my boots not that big and if she sits facing out, she can get her nose banged when the lid closes - it didn't take her long to realise & she now leans back to the seat with her nose horizontal to the boot! 

When she goes into mum's boot - which is a much bigger estate one - she still jumps in and goes right to the back where the seats are and sits straight down therefore no way for her nose / tail or anything else to be accidentally caught 

I've never felt the need to use a harness in a boot (did when they were on the back seat) - although I would if I had multiple dogs travelling (one of my friends had a horrible accident and it was actually the dogs landing on each other that did the most damage)


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Acer said:


> Found a few snagging points though....Securing him without a dog guard. I still want him to have a harness and tethering system as I think it helps him keep balance on roundabouts, he is quite a master at leaning into his harness and I think it makes him feel more secure. I think the dog guards are more aimed at protecting us, I would rather keep him from slamming into the guard. Does anyone use a harness and seatbelt in the boot? I think we have Isofix points...is this good enough, like the seatbelts in the back?
> 
> Another slight issue....how do you keep their tails from getting slammed in the boot!? At the moment I'm folding the bumper flap over his tail, is there any other way to do this?
> 
> ...


Why do you not also have a tail gate guard?

I personally do not like seat belts the only thing they do (if fitted correctly to both the dog and the car) is prevent dogs from leaving the vehicle.

They do not necessarily prevent injury as Trevor Turner a vet who has written about the injuries seen in dogs in crates v those in harnesses, he has seen far more injuries when the latter are used.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Targ just jumps in the boot and sits down so I've never had to worry about him. Kes gets a bit anxious and so I connect her lead to a metal hook in the boot and get her to sit so her tail never catches.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Sympathies, Molly is on the back seat of our X Trail with a seatbelt and harness as she hates the boot closing too, really really scared. My ideal scenario is to have her in the boot in a transK9 crash tested crate but we are having to take it very slowly. We're going to bring the crate into the living room and work with that before it goes into the car. I won't put her into the boot until she's okay with the crate + boot.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I would vote for a dog guard, tailgate guard and Hatchbag to line the boot. I dislike tethers for a few reasons - if your main reason is balance I find dogs find their "sea legs" pretty quickly and know when they need to lie down!! If you have a tailgate guard the boot cannot be shut on the dog's tail as the guard will be shut first.


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## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

I changed to an Estate about 3weeks ago, although Zab has been in the boot of my old Peugeot the boot was a different shape and he was fine when I closed it. 
But with the Audi Estate he really didn't like the boot closing on him at first and you could see the look on his face before I even closed it  but he'll now happily jump in and he'll stand right back and happy for the boot to be closed. 
He also didn't like the fact it was lower too, my old car was pretty high up but the estate is a lot lower to the ground but again he finds it a lot easier jumping in. 

At the moment I only have a boot liner in as I'm waiting for my dog guard to arrive and will get a tailgate in the future but I don't use a harness and find they soon settle and don't crash into anything.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> I say 'watch your nose'  -


This made me smile, I say this to Daisy when she's in her crate as if she sticks her nose out, it could get bumped by the boot lid!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

The great advantage of an estate is being able to fit a dog guard. I found using a harness a complete hassle prior to getting an estate as they'd get tangled up in them. I'm not that convinced of the ability of plastic buckles, which feature on all the harnesses I've seen to successfully restrain a fig in the event if an accident.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> The great advantage of an estate is being able to fit a dog guard. I found using a harness a complete hassle prior to getting an estate as they'd get tangled up in them. I'm not that convinced of the ability of plastic buckles, which feature on all the harnesses I've seen to successfully *restrain a fig* in the event if an accident.


Exactly and they are so much lighter than dogs  .


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Good old (un)predictive text. 

It would acceptable if I spent a lot if time on fruit forums.


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

Never overly thought about it. 

Have dog guard ideally have tail gate guard if the price is right (never find one for my car second hand) 

If I had small dogs I would appropriately secure a crate and travel in that.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

There's no point investing In a bigger car in order to have back seats free for passengers if in an accident as there's no dog guard the dog / dogs fly through the car killing said passengers.

Harsh I know but in an accident dogs loose in a boot become missiles without a suitably fitted dog / luggage guard.

Personally Millie travels on the back seats tethered to the isofix. If in a crash yes Millie will be Hurt without a doubt but I know I took reasonable effort to prevent her killing anyone else in the car.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I own an estate but my dogs have been in a variety of different boots in cars including a scirocco (that was a squeeze..). 

I don't tie them in but also don't use a guard. I find to prevent any tails getting caught just making them sit helps.

I have one dog who I have to lift to get in as she won't jump so once she is in because she lays down I have been known to lift her gently the hips and pivot there bums a few inches further in to avoid any body parts catching.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I wouldn't use a harness in a car boot, I'd much rather have the dog free to be released when necessary in an accident. You can attach a short lead or a loop to the collar so you can grab him.
Tailgate guards are really good; I had one at agility shows and it meant I could leave the car boot open for fresh air but the dogs were secure.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Leaving a lead on is a good point. That's something I was once told to do and always have done so there's something for someone to grab in the event if an accident.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Mont travels in a crate in the boot. Crate is secured to the anchor points to stop it sliding across the boot. He leans against the back of the crate to steadt himself.

If I had a bigger dog I'd have a tailgate instead of a crate but more importantly ensure that the backseat could withstand a dog in a collision not coming through.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

As an aside, talking about safety, I have one of these attached to one of the crates in the van - it's really prominent and has room for loads of information such as a contact name and number should another person be required to collect the dogs if the driver is injured ICE dog rescue cards Racingredd agility Wendy Clay.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

My dogs are registered with BEIDS and their tag is on their collar so that in an emergency the right people are called.

I also wear a BEIDS bracelet and I have a BEIDS tag on my car/house keys


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi - Thanks all for replies!

He seems to turn around to look out the front, and his tail extends right to the boot catch. The car has a fail-safe where if something is caught, it reopens, but I don't want it to be caught in the first place!

With the hatch bags, where does the bumper flap fold up to? Does it sit at 90 degrees and act as a tailgate guard? (i.e. enclose him in the boot area). Or does it sit flat on the floor.

I kind of see guards as a protection for us, rather than the dog. I think if people are happy for dogs to be on the backseats with a harness, then why not in the boot? If the kids were on the back seat with a guard up, I think people would still want to strap them in.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Acer said:


> With the hatch bags, where does the bumper flap fold up to? Does it sit at 90 degrees and act as a tailgate guard? (i.e. enclose him in the boot area). Or does it sit flat on the floor.


No; it just folds out over the bumper (same material as the Hatchbag) and then I roll it up in front of the tailgate guard.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Acer said:


> I kind of see guards as a protection for us, rather than the dog. I think if people are happy for dogs to be on the backseats with a harness, then why not in the boot? If the kids were on the back seat with a guard up, I think people would still want to strap them in.


A proper dog guard correctly fitted will prevent a dog sailing through the windscreen, injuring passengers/driver on the way and either being seriously injured, killed, running away or causing another road traffic accident.

The difference is that seatbelts for children are manufactured to an international safety standard ie EN/BSI/ISO, the ones for dogs are not.

A key point to remember.

It is the same with so called crash tested cages, there is no similar standard for them.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

This has given me an idea that we could have Molly tethered in the boot of our X trail with a dog guard (and a tail guard?) in place of the crate. Would that be a safe alternative? 

Sorry to hijack the thread


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> This has given me an idea that we could have Molly tethered in the boot of our X trail with a dog guard (and a tail guard?) in place of the crate. Would that be a safe alternative?
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread


A dog guard and tailgate guard will do. There is no need to tether them, like I said before, its safer to leave them loose.


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

Wiz201 said:


> A dog guard and tailgate guard will do. There is no need to tether them, like I said before, its safer to leave them loose.


He goes to work with Dad and this is his new car...Dad's getting on a bit now(!) and even with the lead still attached to Leo I'd prefer he couldn't jump out, just incase Dad didn't get to the lead quickly enough.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> A dog guard and tailgate guard will do. There is no need to tether them, like I said before, its safer to leave them loose.


Thank you, I see smokeybear has liked your comment so we may try that  I have a selection of crates, seat covers and only one dog (and little space left to store anymore!)


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

toffee44 said:


> Have dog guard ideally have tail gate guard if the price is right (never find one for my car second hand)


Have a look on Ebay, and also Agilitynet Flea Market. I found one for my new car on there second-hand, for £65 +P&P, made by MMG, and they start at £220 new.
Tailguards



Snoringbear said:


> Leaving a lead on is a good point. That's something I was once told to do and always have done so there's something for someone to grab in the event if an accident.


Or if you have a tailgate guard, clip some leads to it. I always have spare leads in the car ever since helping to rescue three dogs from a hot car a couple of summers ago - three dogs in the car, but only two leads could be found in the vehicle! It required some creative thinking to link an old harness we found to two of the dogs, so they could be secured by one lead to a tree in the shade.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

Lots to think about on this thread hmmm 

Angel outgrew her car harness a few months ago & it never replaced it..

If it's just me & Angel or me & the kids & Angel then she travels on the front seat
Any other adult no kids she is in the back 
Any other adult plus kids then she is either in the boot (if I've emptied it) or passenger seat well.. Which I'm not happy with for anything other than a maximum 10min journey 

She is 16kg so while not huge certainly big enough to cause ample damage 

We have a mazda 2 so again not huge but ample boot (certainly larger than the Aygo we had) 

She jumps into the car & sits waits till told to get out & doesn't jump or play up 

What would be the best way to travel.. If it's buying another car harness or some tail guards or whatever could anybody help with what is best please 

Sorry to hijack was about to post my own thread &#65533;&#65533;


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Donut76 said:


> Lots to think about on this thread hmmm
> 
> Angel outgrew her car harness a few months ago & it never replaced it..
> 
> ...


Dog Guard and Tailgate or a crate that can be tied down or a bespoke car cate, Barjo, Barnesbrook, Lintran are three of the many specialists in this area


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Donut76 said:


> Lots to think about on this thread hmmm
> 
> Angel outgrew her car harness a few months ago & it never replaced it..
> 
> ...


Something dreadful can happen in ten minutes so I hope you get something sorted out quickly.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

It is funny - we are back to pet forum owners being different from the rest of the world. When we are out with the horses I can see into cars so can see what is going on and have yet to see a dog in a harness or any form of restraint apart from a friend who crates her dog but leaves it in the car all day when she is working. Same with dogs I see in car parks. A lot of dogs are flying around in the car barking or sticking their heads out of the window.

When I had an estate car my dogs were behind a dog guard. They were in the car a very great deal with weekly very long journeys (often hundreds of miles) and usually in the car on a daily basis. We had 2 serious accidents with cars written off and though the dogs were scared they did not move.

I do not have my dogs in the car that often nowadays so have chosen to keep the boot for shopping etc and the dogs have the back seat. One is usually on a harness and the other is loose and on long journeys she tends to go under the drivers seat from behind.

I think everyone has to make their own decisions. Never heard of anyone being done for having a dog loose - though seeing dogs either sitting on the drivers lap or dashing around the front of the car does not seem the best idea.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Acer said:


> He goes to work with Dad and this is his new car...Dad's getting on a bit now(!) and even with the lead still attached to Leo I'd prefer he couldn't jump out, just incase Dad didn't get to the lead quickly enough.


Train the dog to wait? I trained my two successfully; if they jumped out before I was ready they were put back in. They learnt pretty quickly.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

The way I am viewing it, is that if our dogs are secure it's also one less thing for us or even more critically, the emergency services to deal with.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Blitz said:


> It is funny - we are back to pet forum owners being different from the rest of the world. When we are out with the horses I can see into cars so can see what is going on and have yet to see a dog in a harness or any form of restraint apart from a friend who crates her dog but leaves it in the car all day when she is working. Same with dogs I see in car parks. A lot of dogs are flying around in the car barking or sticking their heads out of the window.
> 
> When I had an estate car my dogs were behind a dog guard. They were in the car a very great deal with weekly very long journeys (often hundreds of miles) and usually in the car on a daily basis. We had 2 serious accidents with cars written off and though the dogs were scared they did not move.
> 
> ...


I see that all the time here - driver's lap or passenger seats. The other day at some lights a JRT was going mental at me walking Rudi and the driver was attempting to pull away as the lights turned green with this bouncing, barking dog actually in her lap .


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Dogless said:


> I see that all the time here - driver's lap or passenger seats. The other day at some lights a JRT was going mental at me walking Rudi and the driver was attempting to pull away as the lights turned green with this bouncing, barking dog actually in her lap .


It is mad isnt it. There is a lorry driver who takes his collie out with him and it is never still for a moment, stereotypical charging from one side of the cab to the other, I dont know how he can stand it. It can really scare the ponies when someone slows up by us and their dogs nearly take the window out attacking the ponies. Even a local horse person thought it funny when her dog got half out of the window and barked right beside the ponies.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Blitz said:


> It is mad isnt it. There is a lorry driver who takes his collie out with him and it is never still for a moment, stereotypical charging from one side of the cab to the other, I dont know how he can stand it. It can really scare the ponies when someone slows up by us and their dogs nearly take the window out attacking the ponies. Even a local horse person thought it funny when her dog got half out of the window and barked right beside the ponies.


Yes, totally mad and very dangerous. I like mine in their crates in the van or behind the dog guard in the car as I can just concentrate on driving and not what the dogs are doing - they either sit and watch the world go by or sleep.
A van driver here has a huge Saint Bernard loose in the front  - that he lets out to poo on a bit of grass, leaves and puts him back in - and loads of them seem to have JRTs and mini schnauzers charging round barking. Not to mention the odd tiny dog that people actually have on their dashboards!! It would drive me demented.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I see that all the time here - driver's lap or passenger seats. The other day at some lights a JRT was going mental at me walking Rudi and the driver was attempting to pull away as the lights turned green with this bouncing, barking dog actually in her lap .


It's mad isn't it, a couple of weeks ago I was sat at traffic lights when in the car in front I noticed something moving through the middle of the car... The driver had a terrier type dog sat ON the dashboard!

People never cease to amaze.


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