# animal friends aren't animal friends



## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I just got Max's insurance renewal through and bearing in mind his first year renewal went from £54 to £117 a month l expected as its been a bad year that l would probably expect a similar sort of price hike.

However l didn't expect a renewal premium of £406:87 a month.

Obviously they only want to insure healthy pets and l realise they have spent a lot on Max and l expect higher premiums but this is more than my mortgage is.

Next time l am going with Petplan for my dogs and l am afraid AF has now lost any future business l may have had with them and l won't be reccomending them to anyone else again.obviously l will be trying to fight this sort of rise but l am not happy.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Good Heavens, I wouldn't pay anybody that kind of money for insurance.

If you put that into an account every month, you'd have a tidy sum in no time at all.

£406 is ridiculous.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

His cancer drugs are £144 a month which we can do but then there is regular blood works to be done plus a once a year ct scan at approx £1000.

I know its not cheap and l was happy to pay £200 a month,well not happy but would have understood.

I feel like l am failing him as will he survive if we don't do his treatments


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

That is shocking. I could never afford that much of an increase. I am seriously considering putting money by each month in case this happens. We have Red with Animal Friends too so am very worried.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> His cancer drugs are £144 a month which we can do but then there is regular blood works to be done plus a once a year ct scan at approx £1000.
> 
> I know its not cheap and l was happy to pay £200 a month,well not happy but would have understood.
> 
> I feel like l am failing him as will he survive if we don't do his treatments


Oh that's such a shame and I really feel for you.

For a little perspective though, I have Health Insurance for myself through BUPA. I have just had eighteen months treatment in a private hospital for cancer, including chemotherapy, radiotherapy, a year of Herceptin, (which is an awfully expensive drug). I've had a lumpectomy and operations to insert a port in my chest then another to have it removed.

I've had MRI and ultrasound scans, no end of medications and other treatments and I pay BUPA £120 a month.

Of course your insurance isn't going to be cheap, but how about getting some other quotes?

Over £400 a month still seems outrageous to me.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I would love to get other quotes but Max has had his hips,elbows ,throat done and now he has cancer.

It doesn't leave a lot to insure really as they are now pre existing conditions.l have been a loyal customer for seven years and l would have insured with them again for any of my other pets.obviously they only want healthy pets.

Its a 350% increase!!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Could you ring and dispute the increase. It is worth a shot as nothing to lose. I feel really sorry for you. You would do better to have a 0% on purchases credit card and put his meds and treatment on that throughout the year and pay £100 or so off it every month to clear it every 12 months if that makes sense.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

That seems insane!! 

I would ring them and haggle - I've never done it with Pet Insurance, but halved my car insurance by ringing them up and basically saying "What on earth are you doing? That's insane."


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ohhhh Vicky - I'm so sorry 

TBH I'm really not surprised though - they will try to recoup what they've paid out & now they know there's also an ongoing (sadly expensive) condition they will hike the premiums hugely to cover what they know they'll have to pay out

Hope you can get some reduction - you are NOT failing him, you have been wonderful with him (((hugs)))


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I will be disputing it but when l disputed last years increase it made no difference.

Don't get me wrong l expected a 70% increase and had budgeted for it.

I have also left them a note on their Facebook page asking them how they justify 350%.

I will have to talk to our vets and yes l can afford his cancer meds and if l have to put his ct scan on a credit card l will do but l cannot understand how they can justify this sort of increase.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> I will be disputing it but when l disputed last years increase it made no difference.
> 
> Don't get me wrong l expected a 70% increase and had budgeted for it.
> 
> ...


They can't, it's outrageous. I feel they think they've got you over a barrel.

Would his meds and treatment cost you less than that if you paid yourself, as suggested, on an interest free credit card?


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

His cancer meds are £144 a month.blood works £50-100 approx every three months.
Ct scan once a year approx £1200 and thats if nothing else goes wrong.

I know l will be panicking about bloat and cruciates if l cancel but l cannot afford this type of increase.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

victoria171168 said:


> His cancer meds are £144 a month.blood works £50-100 approx every three months.
> Ct scan once a year approx £1200 and thats if nothing else goes wrong.
> 
> I know l will be panicking about bloat and cruciates if l cancel but l cannot afford this type of increase.


How old is he and what breed is he?

If you can cover the cost of his drugs ( getting a written prescription and buying online may be cheaper if you don't already do this too) and use a credit card for CT scans etc., if he's not too old, you could even take out a new insurance policy with a better company as they'd still cover anything not pre existing


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Max has just turned two years old.he is a newfoundland landseer.

He has had surgeries on his hips, elbows, throat and now cancer.

Apart from bloat or cruciates l cant think they could cover anything else as there isnt a lot left.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

victoria171168 said:


> Max has just turned two years old.he is a newfoundland landseer.
> 
> He has had surgeries on his hips, elbows, throat and now cancer.
> 
> Apart from bloat or cruciates l cant think they could cover anything else as there isnt a lot left.


Jeez 2 years old and £400 a month? You could insure him with any other company

Animal friends really aren't a good company. I work in a vet practice and I'm not allowed to recommend or bad mouth any companies but I wish I could, I've seen so many people caught out by animal friends, be it premiums or small print.

I'm with Tesco for my dogs. I find them very affordable, they pay out quickly, and they're one of the few companies that don't add a % contribution when the animal gets older (this was an important consideration for me as a student with an older dog!)

There's still a lot that can go wrong besides those you've mentioned - there's accidents, foreign bodies, eating toxic things, diabetes, pancreatitis, skin conditions, eyes, ears, heart....


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Was that a typo? This amounts to £ 5000.00 - minus a few quid - a year?

Actually, it would be more ethical if they just bluntly state " we don't/can't want to insure your dog anymore".

Which is what they are saying with those premiums......

Incidentally, there is an insurance ombudsman. One of my friends contacted them ( not sure of the details,or name) years ago because her pet insurance refused a claim and booted her. She won. They had to refund her. It was a longwinded, lengthy palaver - as these things always are - but she did get her comeuppance

Shout and I'll ask her who she contacted. Or google "insurance ombudsman" and see whether this phenomenal premium hike is actually legal. It sounds iffy.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Was that a typo? This amounts to £ 5000.00 - minus a few quid - a year?
> 
> Actually, it would be more ethical if they just bluntly state " we don't/can't want to insure your dog anymore".
> 
> ...


I raised a complaint with tesco, not over a claim, I'd never made a claim at this point, but there was a problem with my direct debits, for some reason they just couldn't collect them. I phoned the first month, they said they'd set it up again and take a double payment the following month. Didn't go out, so I phoned again, they said not to worry, they'd take a triple payment the month after that. Didn't go out, I phoned them again and they told me my policy had been cancelled and my dog was now too old to offer another policy other than accidental.

I wrote a letter of complaint and stated that if I hadn't received a reply within X amount of days (there is a specified limit), or if their response wasn't satisfactory, I'd take it to the ombudsman. I didn't get a reply, so the day after the limit I called them...within 30 minutes I had a call back, my policy had been reinstated, I had the 3 months I hadnt paid free, I had another 3 months free, a £50 tesco gift card and they even refunded the cost for the repeated calls to their 0845 number on my mobile


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Yes £5000 a year and yes please to who she talked to.
Unfortunately if l buy his cancer meds l cant afford anyone who might take him on.

I know he may never live to.old age but l want to give him the best chance going.

Animal friends used to be great.insurance premiums werent extortionate. Rises were minimal but even though they have paid out everytime l just wish they were honest and said sorry your dog costs us too much , hes too poorly and we dont want you.

Not so worried about other things as his cancer will probably kill him first.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm with Tesco too.

I pay £9 a month for Rosie, which covers operations/treatment up to £5000 and public liability of £1,000,000.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

victoria171168 said:


> Yes £5000 a year and yes please to who she talked to.
> Unfortunately if l buy his cancer meds l cant afford anyone who might take him on.
> 
> I know he may never live to.old age but l want to give him the best chance going.
> ...


Get some quotes at least - my 8 year old collie is insured with tesco for £7500 per condition at less than £20 a month.

Also find out how much your vet charges for a written prescription, if you don't already buy drugs online it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper even factoring in the written prescription cost and any p&p


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I know my vet will do a prescription for him and l know £144 a month is the cheapest l can get his drugs for and unfortunately they are the cheapest ones available. 

I will go to watchdog and Domonic Littlewood if l dont get it reduced and l have asked people on fb to share .it may not help me but might someone else.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I would urge you to make a formal complaint in writing, and send it special delivery.

It also wouldn't hurt to let them know, in a nice way, that you are in touch with many many other dog owners and you know your fellow dog owners would be horrified at this price hike...


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Jeez... insurance is just getting stupid these days. Soon the only people who will be able to afford it will be those who do not need it.

I'm sorry this has happened.  Big hugs for Max xxxx


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

victoria171168 said:


> Yes £5000 a year and yes please to who she talked to.
> Unfortunately if l buy his cancer meds l cant afford anyone who might take him on.


Will do.

If you haven't heard from me within a couple days, pm me.

Meanwhile, here is a link to the ombudsman dealing with financial matters ( including insurance...and this includes pet insurance)

ww.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/65/65-pet_insurance.html

Whilst I don't know the details of your specific policy ( I presume there is a cap for each ailment?) ....for what it is worth, I think their stance is abyssmal. Yes, jt is a business and yes they need to make a profit ( or their business would fail). But a premium hike of this magnitude is simply immoral. That's why people insure their pets for....in case they require lengthy and costly treatment. Yours does. Many others don't. So they get their money from somewhere. Berks!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Bllimey I thought M&S were bad when they hiked my last rottie to over £200 per month. I did complain and escalated it through their complaints procedure to senior management but got no reduction. I mentioned complaining to the ombudsman but was told they do not get involved in premiums, that each company are free to set their own premium and that they dealt more with the issues such as rejection of claims etc. I do believe M&S were trying to price themselves out of the pet insurance market as it has not proved to be a good earner for them but would have thought animal friends would be more ethical. I hope you can get them to be more reasonable.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Just a little consideration that has occurred to me. 

Excuse me if it's a stupid question, but is a Newfoundland Landseer a different breed to a Newfoundland? (I don't *do* breeds beyond the standard ones, mine are all waifs, strays and cast offs!) 

The reason I ask is that a lot of pet insurance companies work their premiums out based on what that breed of dog has claimed for the previous year.

For example, if all the jack Russell owners claim £250,000 for their dogs, their premium will be X per month based on the amount paid out, and the amount of people with jack Russells paying monthly premiums. If all the Labrador owners claim 500,000 for their dogs, their premium will be X per month based on the amount paid out and the number of Labradors paying premiums - so assuming there's a similar number of people owning each breed, the Labrador premiums will be considerably higher. It's the fairest way of doing it with regards to breed specific conditions etc. 

If he's down on insurance as a Newfoundland Landseer, they may not have many of those registered and with his high cost treatment, this could well account for the massive jump in premiums? They aren't the best company in the world (in my experience they sucker you in for a few years with cheap monthly payments then as soon as you claim, hike it up when it is difficult for you to change with regard to pre existing conditions) but I can't see that they have plucked their figures out of thin air (hopefully!)


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Blinking disgusting how these pet insurance companies operate!
I had the same with John lewis earlier this year
Milly's insurance shot up for £400 to nearly £800 and shes only ever had one claim! and that was for a cut paw which should not affect premiums anyway and shes only 6 years old - one has to wonder how much she will cost when she is 12 years??
Their excuse, shes at the age now where she could start to cost! more or less saying they'll take the smooth but when the going gets tough it'll cost you! 

I did take out insurance for Manuex some years ago which is maybe the best thing I ever did! The deal was you have your dog insured with them prior to the their 9th birthday and you premiums will NOT rise due to age/illness. but you will still get the general insurance rate increases/decreases. its a for life policy, albeit the cover is not the highest, we have over the years had 4 claims, that insurance was around £300 when I took it out, manuex is 14 next year and over the years that has gone up to just short of £360 so think that was a cracking good deal, they are quick to pay too.! Anyway, I did try to get Milly on that policy, BUT the no longer offer that one, Relieved that they are honouring any old policies though, unlike so companies we hear of.
Can't praise them enough, just wish I had put milly on it when I started manuex's


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

A Newfoundland landseer is just a black/white newf.
Sir Edwin Landseer used to paint them hence the attachment.


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## ian1969uk (Sep 5, 2010)

I'd be interested in Albert Ross's view on this.

He claims to include only ethical companies on his website, but Animal Friends are there.

Albert, can we now assume that you will be removing them?


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## ChocChip (Jun 14, 2014)

I took out a policy with this company on the 23rd of June, would I be able to cancel it? Am completely shocked by this!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Chocchip - check the t&Cs but most insurances you cancel at any time (or say months notice is the longest I've ever seen)

Make sure you have your new policy in place before cancelling it AND that the exclusion period on the new one is up (usually around 14 days from the start of the policy)


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## ChocChip (Jun 14, 2014)

Its says a 14 day cooling off period on citizens advice am on day 12 today from taking out policy.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

You will still be able to cancel after that - check the T&Cs 

Do NOT cancel before the exclusion period has expired on the new policy you have taken out - or you will have no cover


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I posted a disgusted notice on their fb page .amazing how they can say they will look into it if publicly shamed.if they don't do anything or this ripoff sticks then Watchdog and Dominic Little wood here l go.

I don't understand what has changed,with Beau the premiums hardly changed and yet he racked up big bills.
Yes Max has had a lot of treatment but then the premiums went up so much,yes its a business but he is supposed to be allowed £30,000 per condition over his lifetime,so if you have limits like that then surely they should allow for that.

Obviously there are lots of people who have healthy animals so they must make a healthy profit and after all this is the point of insurance to use when you need it,if it had been a 70% increase to £200 a month l would have understood and much as it wouldn't have been easy l could have cut back to cover it.

The insensitivity especially with a terminal diagnosis is what really annoys me.I may be lucky but we are only expecting Max to probably have another year unless his treatment works.

Still won't ever use them again though.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> Yes Max has had a lot of treatment but then the premiums went up so much,yes its a business but he is supposed to be allowed £30,000 per condition over his lifetime,so if you have limits like that then surely they should allow for that.


I think that's part of the problem though - they may 'allow' for £30k / condition over lifetime but if they get big claim year on year then I'm afraid they will try to a) recoup some of what they've paid out and b) cover the costs of continuing treatment and c) they will see it that it's going to continue ....

I'm not sure what the alternative would've been - to refuse cover? Would that be better?

Personally, if you can cover his drugs / the other bits he has now, I'd cancel the insurance as that is a ridiculous sum to pay


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Vicky - this might help, I know a lot of people say the Ombudsman hasn't helped with premium rises, but I think that's if there's a general / across the client base type increases

online technical note on pet insurance

'If we find that there was an increase for all similar consumers, we might explain that the insurer was just exercising its commercial judgment. *But if we think that the insurer increased the premium to deter that individual consumer from renewing, we are likely to uphold the complaint.*'

Def worth a try as I def think they've increased that much to put you off renewing it

(re-read my post above and I don't think it's probably come across how I meant it as I wasn't siding with them & it sort of looks like that re-reading it  sorry if you thought that as I most def don't - I was meaning to highlight how they'll have come up with the huge rise )


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi Lilylass

Oh dont worry l knew what you meant.

I always understood he has been an expensive baby but then his premiums arent cheap either.l would have understood if they had increased it to £200 a month.wouldnt have liked it but we could have coped with it just.

They also know from the notes my oncologist has provided them that unless he is very lucky that he probably only has another year unless his treatment works.this is what has so annoyed me as l mistakenly thought that at least with his insurance that we could give him a year of good quality of life and extra supplements to ease any problems but that will have to be curtailed a lot.

Thanks for the link.will be chasing them up on monday and my friends on fb are sharing my info like crazy.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

As promised, I talked to my friend re: her successful outcome via the Insurance Ombudsman against her pet insurance ( something "Equine & Farmers", not sure they still do pet insurance):

VERY different scenario to yours as it didn't involve a hair-curling cost augmentation ( in a gist - her insurance refused payment for a back leg issue on the grounds that this was excluded due to a prior claim. Which was true, her dog had a prior back leg problem. Which they had covered. Only....it pertained to the OTHER back leg AND happend seven years (!!) earlier).

Anyhow, after much unsuccessful to-ing and fro-ing with the insurer, my friend contacted the Insurance Ombudsman. First via phone, then via recorded letter(s), always including all copies of her prior correspondence with the pet insurance. The ombudsman ruled in her favour. The insurer had to cover the costs of her subsequent claim.

My friends advice was simple - be persistant, keep meticulous notes ( and a relevant diary), and, most importantly.....put it in writing and keep all copies in chronological order.

I suppose the first thing I'd do is to send those unfriendly animal friends a recorded letter. Asserting that a price hike of this magnitude is neither reasonable, nor acceptable. Given your dog's medical history it would be impossible to insure him elsewhere ( although...have you tried?), leaving him without medical care. And you didn't insure your dog to be left without medical care cover. Yours sincerely....

By no means am I an expert on insurance matters, however, I think your insurance is skating on perilously thin ice with what they are trying to pull ( essentially, giving you the boot. Because who'd agree to pay 5 K on pet insurance for ONE pet??!!).

From what I understand your dog is having current, ongoing treatment. Which is something no new insurer would cover. And those AF guys know that. But insurance companys are bound by legislation, standards and rules. They can't just make up silly prices in their heads because they are making a loss on your boy and thus rather delete him from their data base. I say, go fight them...and win!


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> As promised, I talked to my friend re: her successful outcome via the Insurance Ombudsman against her pet insurance ( something "Equine & Farmers", not sure they still do pet insurance)


Equine & Livestock? Aka E&L? (Notoriously poor at paying out!)


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Little P said:


> Equine & Livestock? Aka E&L? (Notoriously poor at paying out!)


Yes! That's what they are called.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Little P said:


> Equine & Livestock? Aka E&L? (Notoriously poor at paying out!)


I remember when I got Smudge (my first pet of my own that wasn't a family one iykwim) and I'd insured him with E&L

(Bear in mind, this was nearly 20 years ago & no internet to find out reviews / others experiences etc - how did we manage!)

Anyway, thankfully someone I knew from when I had the horses said they were terrible and I switched him to Pet Plan

Thank goodness I did - he had problems with his kidneys from the age of 2 and must've cost several thousand over the course of his lifetime = PP paid out no quibbles every claim


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

After reading this, and then considering the 35% co payment AF want to take when Your dog is 8 and over I am cancelling. Just taken out Petplan. £8 a month more but I don't want to find myself in a position like you are in and i would rather spend £8 a month more tbh. I hope you get something sorted out. I will be sure to tell AF why I am cancelling. I think it is disgusting what they done to you.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Buzzard - remember to let the exclusion period on your new policy expire before cancelling your current one


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Lilylass said:


> Buzzard - remember to let the exclusion period on your new policy expire before cancelling your current one


Yea thanks. Have put it in my diary on the day Petplan kicks in after the 14 days :wink5:


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Insurance ombudsman contacted to complain,am waiting for AF to contact me either later today or tomorrow.

Hoping for a result or we will pursue the complaint.

Even the ombudsman couldn't believe the increase!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> Insurance ombudsman contacted to complain,am waiting for AF to contact me either later today or tomorrow.
> 
> Hoping for a result or we will pursue the complaint.
> 
> Even the ombudsman couldn't believe the increase!


Well let's be honest only someone rich enough to afford not to insure could afford that increase! Not very 'ethical' in my view.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

victoria171168 said:


> Insurance ombudsman contacted to complain,am waiting for AF to contact me either later today or tomorrow.
> 
> Hoping for a result or we will pursue the complaint.
> 
> Even the ombudsman couldn't believe the increase!


I hate to tell you this but similar complaints to the Ombudsman have fallen on deaf ears, on the grounds that price hikes were purely a business thing outside their control.

In any case you MUST go via the formal complaint thing with AF first - which takes 6 weeks  - or the Ombudsman will simply tell you to do it.

The good news, on the other hand, is that if they do decide to investigate you have a roughly 3 in 5 chance of getting a result in your favour.


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## ian1969uk (Sep 5, 2010)

Albert, will AF remain on your site?


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Well.. the way I thought insurance should work is that those who don't claim contribute to the payouts for those who do claim. And the insurance companies should adjust their premiums and asses their payout rate such that this is the case.

What I am hearing with these "for life" policies is that the insurance company effectively ups the premiums of a claimant in order to wipe out their deficit on a per policy basis or to simply drive the claimant away.

This of course maximises their profits but seems morally wrong to me. It would be interesting to see what trading standards thought about this practice.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> Well.. the way I thought insurance should work is that those who don't claim contribute to the payouts for those who do claim. And the insurance companies should adjust their premiums and asses their payout rate such that this is the case.
> 
> What I am hearing with these "for life" policies is that the insurance company effectively ups the premiums of a claimant in order to wipe out their deficit on a per policy basis or to simply drive the claimant away.
> 
> This of course maximises their profits but seems morally wrong to me. It would be interesting to see what trading standards thought about this practice.


I think this is the case with some insurers. Animal Friends do state that your claim history can affect your premium where Petplan claim they do not increase your premium if you claim it is based on breed, age, address and medical advances. This is why I have changed from AF to Petplan as in my view with pet insurance you should be able claim without the fear of a soaring premium. I hope OP gets some justice though. Terrible.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Even if we don't get the result we would like l am going to post on fb and other places.
My boy is lucky atm l can afford some of his treatment ,others may not be.

Also as AF brag about being ethical and also improving customer relations l don't think this is the way to go about it.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> Even if we don't get the result we would like l am going to post on fb and other places.
> My boy is lucky atm l can afford some of his treatment ,others may not be.
> 
> Also as AF brag about being ethical and also improving customer relations l don't think this is the way to go about it.


Too right it is disgusting and I would not recommend them to anyone. I cannot see how that kind of increase can be deemed acceptable. Fingers crossed for you.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

i cant believe that increase!!! im with AF and have never had a problem dexter is 2 years old and ive claimed probably £1500 back off them and it only increased by about 20p i think! i cant believe they have increased it by that much like you said you expect it to increase but thats a joke! its a shame as i have always found them brilliant price wise and customer service.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

ian1969uk said:


> Albert, will AF remain on your site?


Yes. For the moment anyway. This seems to be an isolated case and, hard though it seems, there is a condition in AF's policy which specifically allows them to hike prices:

_When inviting renewal of this policy we may, at our sole discretion
(and for a valid reason as we deem appropriate, taking into consideration,
but not limited to your pet's age, medical and/or claims history) change the
cover, benefits, premium, terms and/or conditions.​_
At the risk of repeating myself - I ALWAYS tell people to read the policy before buying because it's this sort of thing that can catch you out.

TBH - I've never seen a case as extreme as this. Indeed, I've never seen them hike prices at all, other than in inflationary terms.

If it were me - I'd go immediately through their complaints procedure, in writing, with everything addressed to their "Compliance Manager" (NOT their "Complaints Manager") with a very clear title that made it clear that my complaint was a pre-cursor to reporting them to the Financial Ombudsman. It is unlikely that I would achieve a desired result (most financial companies will try their luck and hope you go away). So, I'd get the Ombudsman's address (from Financial Ombudsman Service: Banking, Insurance & Pensions Ombudsman UK) and follow their directions precisely. NB - Send EVERYTHING by recorded delivery and keep copies of letters sent and received. Note also, that there is an allowable window of (I think) 42 days for them to respond.

My complaint would be that AF had specifically increased my premium and not increased premiums across the board. Why? Because it's just about the only complaint about premiums that will get a result. When John Lewis increased premiums (after changing underwriter) they did it to everyone and the Ombudsman was bound to say it was a general business decision. They will argue that the section of their policy quoted above allows them to raise the premium but I would expect the Ombudsman to overrule them. However, it may be the case that any 'settled' premium would still be higher than expected.

As a side note - although I think AF are wrong in this case (and, frankly, a bit stupid) it's precisely this sort of thing that never gets dealt with on price comparison websites where the 'comparison' is generally all about the cost of the policies or what they say they offer. If they behave in this way to a number of people then they aren't doing the right thing and although their policy, on paper, may look wonderful if they don't pay out or fight your claims then you shouldn't use them. I am appalled by this particular case but I'll reserve judgement until I have further evidence. Generally, they've been pretty good, if a little slow, in paying out.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Up until last year l would always have reccomended AF.l wasn't impressed with last years hike from£54 to £117 a month but it was just about doable for us.l appreciate the fact that l pay slightly more due to the claims but do expect rises to be reasonable.

I am still waiting for an answer though l have rung every day and the amount of days l have to wait for an answer keeps changing.did speak to a manager today and politely voiced my displeasure.

They will never regain what they have paid out on Max all barring a miracle.if he lasts a year he will have beaten the odds.

I still don't understand why they hiked the price so badly but unfortunately for them now with my next newf l won't use them again. Its a shame they don't consider their customers more carefully,after all we are their profit margin!

Also l have contacted the insurance ombudsman to register a complaint and have informed AF of this.

Thinking on what you said Albert so in my first year they wouldnt and didnt put everyone elses premiums up by 120% but they did mine.l checked on their website and it still states £54 a month for a newfoundland.hmm may make an even more interesting letter of complaint.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Talked to Maxs oncologist just now .bless her for such a late call but she will look into any ways of making his meds cheaper for us and they dont charge for prescriptions.
they dont rate his chances of life past a year so are as non plussed as we are by the hike.

as she puts it Maxs life span is between 3-12 months going by past cases.so we are at the 4th month junction and he is still fairly happy and healthish.

will be interesting to see what the next few days brings.however they have definetly lost my future business and as my next newf would have had the premium package and hopefully healthy a tidy sum to loose.

To be perfectly honest dont p##s the mum off of a poorly furkid.

hell hath no fury greater than that.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> Talked to Maxs oncologist just now .bless her for such a late call but she will look into any ways of making his meds cheaper for us and they dont charge for prescriptions.
> they dont rate his chances of life past a year so are as non plussed as we are by the hike.
> 
> as she puts it Maxs life span is between 3-12 months going by past cases.so we are at the 4th month junction and he is still fairly happy and healthish.
> ...


Too right. I will tell them why I am cancelling too. Just waiting for my 14 days to kick in with Petplan just in case something crops up with Red. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is bad enough you have such a sick terminally ill dog but then to have all this insurance hassle too is just terrible. Bless you.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Out of curiosity ........was there a conclusion to this conundrum regarding the insurance fees?

I'd be interested to know what the outcome was.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I have been phoning them for over a week now as they have given me four different dates it would be sorted by and still nothing.

Apparently its with the underwriters still for assessing , I have sent an official complaint in to the insurance ombudsman .

As soon as I know anything I will post


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Just finished talking to Animal Friends and basically take a running hike,pay the premium or don't have Max insured.
Highly unhelpful ,won't ever insure any animal with them ever again.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I have complained again and the complaints division are looking into it again,also sent a letter to the compliance manager.

I have sent everything to the insurance ombudsman today as well,to say lam p######d off is an understatement.even if l had read the part about increases,etc l still would never have known they would extortionately increase my premium like this.

I have a friend who is with Petplan and for the last four years her bills have been over £6000 every year and yet her premium has only gone up by £25 a year over the last four years.doesn't make me want to ever insure with them ever again.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

I am so sorry for your predicament, but I am very grateful that you shared it. Owners should be aware of such hair raising, completly immoral behaviour from an insurance company.

I really hope you win in your dispute. In fact, I am certain you will.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

For me if l win fine Max is doing ok and have already cut back severely on everything to fund as much of his treatment as possible.dont know if it means the insurance firm will have to fund his treatment still.

however perhaps they may realise that despite all their risk calculations, etc there is a emotional /life element to all of this.people dont want to have to face this sort of service and that social medias can have an impact.

If l lose then I am still faced with the decision that at some point in the next year my boy will barring a hoped for miracle be put to sleep.l know l have done everything possible from his treatments to making all cleaning products including washing powder to minimise any chemical overload. 

I was insured to give him the best quality of life possible without the worry but this just proves that even the best laid plans can go awry


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Has anyone used chemist direct for any of their drugs as its the cheapest place l can find chlorambucil on which is Max's cancer drug.

Albert is there any more info you could give me to fight my case.still waiting back for the second review but l know they will probably state that they have applied all the correct calculations,etc.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm afraid you have to fight according to the 'rules'. But it can be worth doing so. You should have had, from AF, a written 'complaints procedure'. If you haven't - ask for it. You should then follow everything pertinent in that procedure. They are allowed 6 weeks to respond to your complaint, which they should do in writing. If they phone you with a decision -ask for it formally in writing. Keep a log of all correspondence and, if they phone, a record of when the calls were and what was said (on both sides). If you write, and you should ONLY write, not phone - address your correspondence to the compliance officer. It's the compliance officer that must make sure that they deal with you according to the complaints procedure. (If they don't then you add that to your complaint - see next paragraph). I would advise that all letters you send should be sent recorded delivery.

When you have exhausted all that - and not until - you should then make a complaint to the Ombudsman. Your complaint should start with a (very) brief summary of what your complaint is, preferably couched in terms that may point you on the road to success e.g. "The rise in premium is excessive and I believe that is targeted specifically at me because I have made a large claim and not because it is general across the business." Then give the full history - firstly the amount of time you have been insured, the premiums paid, the dates and sizes of claims made and then details of the latest premium they want to charge. If they have deviated from their complaints procedure you should also include that.

Re-iterate your statement that, in line with the evidence you have presented, you believe that you are being unfairly treated. Send it, recorded delivery.

Unfortunately the Ombudsman tends to move at the speed of a startled snail so you may just get a letter saying that they've received your complaint and they'll look into it. They may assign you a complain number (but their procedures may differ from the past).

Then wait. Don't kick off, don't try and hurry them. Don't go back to AF and tell them what you've done. Wait.

Eventually, you will get a letter from the Ombudsman with a decision. That decision is pretty much final and the only challenge you can make is in court, which a) would be incredibly expensive and b) you would lose anyway (I don't think that any Ombudsman decision has ever been overturned).

The current statistics are that around 60% of complaints (about pet insurance) are upheld. That doesn't mean yours will be - but you have a better than evens chance. Even if it is upheld you may not get the result you hope for, in that the Ombudsman may revalue the premium to a level that you still think is too high.

I'm sorry if this all seems very drawn out and negative - but that's just the way it is. I hope you are successful.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

victoria171168......as an additional thought:

Consider contacting the charity "Justice for dogs". See below for contact info

Justice 4 Dogs - Mascani German Shepherds

It's free, involves a phone call. How good or bad they are I couldn't say, but over the years I have heard their name quite often. Should that link not work, just google "justice for dogs, uk" and you will find their contact details. Pretty sure that your boy's insurance issue - or rather, the ramifications of the insurance premium increase - falls under their remit.

Other sources maybe worth consulting are :

The forums of Moneysavingexpert ( they have a forum devoted to financial/insurance matters)

Consumeraction forums uk

The consumer law solicitiors at "which Legal" service are excellent. You need to have membership to one of their publications, but just phone and explain your situation and they will guide you whether it is worth you joining in order to get access to their legal experts.

Lastly, there are many ways to raise funds. From sponsored walks or any other activity ( sure your vet would back you in his endeavour), to asking your chums to hold coffee & cake mornings, jumble sales, car boot sales, to putting a "chip in" or "donate" button, with relevant info as to why you are asking for help, on your FB page. I realise asking for financial help is hard, but not half as hard as letting him go one moment before his life really has come to an end. Don't let pride be a stumbling stone.

Good luck!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Excellent advice from Albert which I would follow to the letter. I've had experience of making a complaint against a vet and although not the same as they do not have an ombudsman it was only by following their complaints procedure and putting everything in writing/keeping copies (whereas they tried to ignore emails and letters and did not follow their own procedures) that I got my money back in full.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Sorry for all the questions Albert

If they dont reduce my premium then l will have to cancel my policy citing the fact of the unreasonable hike in premiums and being priced out of insurance.

If the ombudsman rules in my favour would they then have to reinstate the policy with original terms and conditions.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

victoria171168 said:


> If the ombudsman rules in my favour would they then have to reinstate the policy with original terms and conditions.


Pretty much, yes. Although it will be for the Ombudsman to decide if any changes are material. It is generally not known that pet insurance companies may change their terms and conditions at renewal time - although they should always issue you with a new policy (and I'll bet a pound to a penny that nobody ever looks at them). If AF have done that across all customers then you'll have to live with whatever they've done.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

So sorry for all the questions Albert. 

So if they issued a new policy that would exclude him from all pre existing conditions or would they have to honour the old policys terms and conditions.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

victoria171168 said:


> So sorry for all the questions Albert.
> 
> So if they issued a new policy that would exclude him from all pre existing conditions or would they have to honour the old policys terms and conditions.


They should, if that's what the Ombudsman says, reinstate the policy with all the OLD terms and conditions, EXCEPT where those conditions have changed across ALL new policies (assuming there have been any changes). On a lifetime policy that would mean they should continue to pay out for anything that wasn't existing when you first started the policy.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks Albert.

I received a letter today from AF stating that all the factors were correct ,highlighting how much he had cost them and that its in their terms and conditions they can amend or increase policys and premiums.


My argument is still reasonable increases,not out price me.

Also that their underwriter has changed terms and pricing levels.

Just checked and on their website the premium quoted is still exactly the same as it was two years ago for the same policy.also l haven't been offered a single alternative.l am also getting exactly the same quotation of cover with a supposedly unlimited lifetime limit.


So not sure who they are trying to kid but am hoping it may still rule in my favour.

Moderators with all the insurance questions and problems it might be worth making this into a sticky so people can benefit from Albert's advice.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

victoria171168 said:


> Thanks Albert.
> 
> I received a letter today from AF stating that all the factors were correct ,highlighting how much he had cost them and that its in their terms and conditions they can amend or increase policys and premiums.
> 
> ...


I really hope you get somewhere with this. I think it is clear they are pricing you out of the policy not a reasonable increase. Run a quote and print it off for your records so if they suddenly increase the premium you could argue at the time of your ludicrous renewal it was the same quote you received a year ago. I cannot see how they can't rule in your favour as what is the point of a lifetime policy that you cannot afford. We all expect an increase but £400 pcm! That is our disposable income amount so if we had an increase like that we have no money left at all!!!!


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

victoria171168 said:


> Just checked and on their website the premium quoted is still exactly the same as it was two years ago for the same policy.also l haven't been offered a single alternative.l am also getting exactly the same quotation of cover with a supposedly unlimited lifetime limit.


Perfect. That's exactly the sort of thing you bring to the Ombudsman's attention.:thumbup:

NB - rather than make this thread a sticky (largely because it doesn't just apply to Animal Friends but to all insurers) I'll redo a single posting with as much in as possible and then ask them to make that a sticky. OK with you?


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

That sounds fine Albert.

I pasted and copied info from A F website into the letters l am sending so hopefully it proves my argument.

Arrange the info as you feel best as you have the experience with this sort of stuff.l just want people to be better informed as l thought l had the best policy for Max and l did read and try to digest all the info before making a choice.

Hindsight is always a wonderful thing .


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

well I am still waiting for a reply from Animal Friends and am putting the info on their facebook page as to why they are doing this. 

Am waiting for their compliance manager to get back to me though I dont hold out much hope of a reply now that it is going through the ombudsman.

Max is doing ok thought the hot weather is hitting him hard and am still researching places to get his drugs cheaper but think I probably have the best price though am waiting for the manufacturers to get back to me to see if I can get an even better price.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Just to let everyone know Animal Friends has come back with no help in any form so had to draft the policy cancellation letter today.

Am just praying the Insurance Ombudsman can help though am asking every chemist I know how much his drugs will cost.

So for their shortsightedness now they have lost all my potential business and reccomendations which will have cost them well over £30,000 over the next 15 years but they obviously dont care about their customers and clients.

Have shared his story on facebook so if anyone else sees it please share it on


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

victoria171168 said:


> Just to let everyone know Animal Friends has come back with no help in any form so had to draft the policy cancellation letter today.
> 
> Am just praying the Insurance Ombudsman can help though am asking every chemist I know how much his drugs will cost.
> 
> ...


Sorry you're not getting anywhere with AF.

It just occurred to me, if someone has health insurance (talking humans here) and developed a life limiting illness that was going to cost the insurance company a lot of money in treatment for the remainder of that person's life, would they be able to increase the premium to the same extent as AF have with Max's insurance . I have no experience of human health insurance so have no idea if this could happen but I sincerely hope it wouldn't.

All insurance is a gamble. With pet insurance, one could take it out, pay premiums for 15 years, say, and never make a claim. Win win for the insurance company. On the other hand, when illness/accident strikes and they have to pay out then they stand to make a loss on that particular client at that time. Insurance companies, like any business, depend on making a profit. I imagine the amount of premiums collected from non-claiming clients far outweighs what they pay out in claims. It does seem grossly unfair that when they are faced with a client who needs to claim for exactly what they have insured against then the client is penalised to such an extent. It makes a nonsense of insurance.

As for this



> So for their shortsightedness now they have lost all my potential business and reccomendations which will have cost them well over £30,000 over the next 15 years but they obviously dont care about their customers and clients.


no, I don't believe they do care much about their customers. Most businesses have no loyalty to their customers despite the fact that their customers may have been loyal to their company for many years. Sadly, to them Max is just a name or a number, and the loss of your business is a drop in the ocean to them that they wont give a second thought to.

I hope you can find a way of getting Max's drugs at the best possible price.

I don't do Facebook so I'm sorry I can't share, but good luck and I hope the Ombudsman can help in some way.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Private health insurance for humans varies like that for pets - a lot of policies have a limit on how long they will pay out for a certain condition and then they don't cover the routine part of the care of that condition such as drugs and out patient appointments but would cover it for a relapse/hospital admission. Some cover the more expensive cancer drugs and some don't. In America its different of course.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Am still fighting this with insurance ombudsman. 

Af dont like that l am posting Max's story on their facebook page and keep removing it.

Talked to Max's oncologist and his holistic/homeopathic vet and are trying to decide do we keep him on western meds or try the alternative route with painkillers to see if we can still give him a good quality of life.

If we stop the western meds then we can treat him more as well as start saving for when he can no longer enjoy life and his cremation costs.dont like the idea of a funeral fund but having to be realistic about his chances.


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## nicl03 (Aug 9, 2013)

Hi I'm with af only been with them for 11 months but will be leaving them when it comes up for renewal I think its terrible how they have treated you.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi nicl03 just make sure if you cancel and are going with another company that the cooling off period is applied to the new firm so that you arent without insurance. I think its 14 days for most companies. 

I think next time l will use petplan as they dont seem to increase their premiums stupidly. 
l would have accepted 60-70 % increase but this has been so stressful on top of having two sick furkids .


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dear Lord...I pay less than that for my car!! That does sound way over the top.


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

This is a horrendous case!

You have had some excellent advice from Albert..... and yes follow it to the letter...

The case totally illustrates the main problem with lifetime pet insurance... that in reality the insurance is an annual contract.. and thus the insurer can change the terms, excesses and premium on renewal. Imho this is totally unfair .. .and the regulatory framework needs to change.. and it makes the market anti-competitive.

Victoria... AFI are very big on marketing their image... certainly take this to watchdog... have you thought of going to the local press? ... I have seen your post on Facebook .. and shared it to my Pet Insurance Surveys UK facebook page... as although this may be an isolated case people do need to be aware of what could happen!


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Sally Hayward said:


> The case totally illustrates the main problem with lifetime pet insurance... that in reality the insurance is an annual contract.. and thus the insurer can change the terms, excesses and premium on renewal. Imho this is totally unfair .. .and the regulatory framework needs to change.. and it makes the market anti-competitive.


I would never try to defend the insurance companies but pet insurance is no different to any other long term insurance in this regard. They are pretty much all subject to an annual renewal and the devil is often hidden in the detail. You think that you are getting a straightforward renewal but it's rare that something doesn't change. This case is indeed, excessive, but it's not, overall, that unusual. Look at all the companies that switched underwriter to RSA - John Lewis, M&S, etc. Premiums escalated in a lot of cases there too.

The big danger, however, is in the actual terms of the insurance changing, especially in the cover being provided - because that's something people just don't notice.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Just to say yes l have sent the info to watchdog .

We expect increases especially with a poorly furkid but reasonable is always the word l would expect .is a 60-70% premium increase acceptable as 370% over two years isn't .


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

victoria171168 said:


> Just to say yes l have sent the info to watchdog .


Try also the Sunday Times money page and the Sunday Mail equivalent e.g. the pages where you ask for help/post a 'hard done by' situation. It sometimes works - but if it doesn't they may run the negative story....


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Wow just checked my emails and l have loads of support messages .AF deleted their post on fb and as l am blocked people are posting Max's story for me.

Wonder how long before AF realises there is a lot of bad publicity circulating now.

Am contacting some newspapers next week to see if they want to run his story.

Hell hath no fury like the mum of a poorly furkid!!!

On a positive note even though he doesnt want his normal food l am managing to get him to eat by hand feeding him.seems once he gets started eating he feels better and doesnt need much coaxing.
Doesnt help that he has to eat to take his painkillers and meds.hopefully he will go back to normalish soon.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

They certainly are a stitch up because even after Flynns hip replacements his premium didn't soar and as he's still only six it still hasn't. I pay £36 a month for £7,000 of cover. 
Argos told me the premium doesn't rise with claims because it's not like car insurance, they said it goes by age, area and breed of dog.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Just got a letter back from them today.

The gist of it is their premium after their calculations and the fact they state they app!y the same increase across the board for high claimers is that the £406:87 a month is correct.
the price quoted on their website is for people who don't claim.

Forget the bits on their site about being moral,ethical and there for the animals.

If your furkid is ill and you need to claim then they will out price you and if they app!y this across the board of high claimers there must be quite a few people who have been hit with an extortionate premium.

So the bare bones is claim and we will out price you as we don't want your business.

Albert good idea in your pm,will look into doing that.

Can you tell l am angry and peed off.my boy is ill and l now have to weigh up his life in monetary terms.


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## ian1969uk (Sep 5, 2010)

I'd say it's about time Albert removed them from his site so others don't think they are a good company to insure with.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

ian1969uk said:


> I'd say it's about time Albert removed them from his site so others don't think they are a good company to insure with.


Unfortunately, this may be an isolated incident. And nobody from Animal Friends is likely to make any sort of public comment before the Ombudsman rules on it.

I wish it were otherwise but complaints are often made about pet insurance companies. All pet insurance companies. If I were to remove every single company that has a complaint made against them I would, literally, have no companies on my site. And, believe me, there are some companies that make this incident seem trivial and who would never get on my site in a million years.

I make a judgement call on whether or not to show a company and it depends on their overall track record; not on one case. Obviously any individual who feels aggrieved can state their case and others may thoroughly agree with their stance - but, to quote an old saying, "one swallow does not a summer make".

I am monitoring this - and I have provided some private help to Victoria and will keep on doing so, where appropriate. However, I am also aware of other AF customers who have nothing but praise for the company and who would argue that they are a great company to insure with. At present the pluses far outweigh the minuses.

In the interim I have written a guide on the 'proper' complaints procedure which I'm currently asking the mods where to post and if they could make it a sticky. I'll report back later.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Unfortunately Albert l have spoken to a lot of people via Facebook and they have reported similar increases.

I am currently working on one of your ideas but being a computer moron will have to wait until my brother gets back of holiday to help me.

I have contacted local radio but they will probably want to wait to see what insurance ombudsman says.

Tomorrow l am going to contact a few more organisations .

Problem is none of this helps while Max is poorly and l am really p#####d off at AF for putting me in this situation.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think you could actually show how poorly Max is to demonstrate the absolute coldheartedness of AF to put you in this situation when they know your dog has such a serious illness - you took out insurance so that you would not have to face making decisions about his treatment based on cost but that is exactly where their actions have left you. He should be weighing very heavily on someones conscience.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

It may or may not help others and up until this year l would probably have agreed that animal friends weren't too bad as an insurance firm.at least last years rise was doable but this year has shown me how badly they can treat otherwise loyal customers.

I have started a fb page 

Animal friends are they really Animal Friends?

People can leave their comments good or bad and hopefully any valuable tips and advice ,also if we can help others out then it will be worth it.

Hopefully someone will send AF a link at some stage,they may not like it but they can't stop comments at least this way.


Also l am trying to find out the managing directors contact details so l can ask her about these sort of premium rises as l am sure this wasn't what she intended when she started her business.have talked to local radio and we will see what happens.

I haven't given up on Max or the unfairness of the situation and l do intend to be a pita .


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

victoria171168 said:


> It may or may not help others and up until this year l would probably have agreed that animal friends weren't too bad as an insurance firm.at least last years rise was doable but this year has shown me how badly they can treat otherwise loyal customers.
> 
> I have started a fb page
> 
> ...


I've tried but can't find any contact details for her. But could this be her own Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/elaine.fairfax.9? Makes me wonder because of all the animal related sites listed in her Favourites and this quote of hers from this site



> I just love visiting charities and playing fairy godmother by giving them funds to help them achieve their projects. It is perhaps the most rewarding aspect of life for both me and my husband Chris.


You've probably already scoured the AF website but just in case here are the underwriters. When I had my large premium increase with John Lewis and a month of communication with them, I was told it was the underwriters who set the premiums and I was eventually passed on to them to discuss the increase.

P.S. Looking at Companycheck's website for details of her directorship (interesting reading, look at all the dissolved/non trading companies!), there is a registered address for her which is different from the address on the AF website - ELAINE MARIE FAIRFAX director information. Free director information. (scroll down). Maybe worth a try writing to her there or trying to find a phone number.

Checking on White Pages there is an Elaine Marie Fairfax (her full name) listed in Dorset (that was a guess as that's the town on Companycheck's website) but you need to register to get her details Whitepages (if that's worked - if not put Elaine Marie Fairfax and Dorset in the search boxes).


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> I'm afraid you have to fight according to the 'rules'. But it can be worth doing so. You should have had, from AF, a written 'complaints procedure'. If you haven't - ask for it. You should then follow everything pertinent in that procedure. They are allowed 6 weeks to respond to your complaint, which they should do in writing. If they phone you with a decision -ask for it formally in writing. Keep a log of all correspondence and, if they phone, a record of when the calls were and what was said (on both sides). If you write, and you should ONLY write, not phone - address your correspondence to the compliance officer. It's the compliance officer that must make sure that they deal with you according to the complaints procedure. (If they don't then you add that to your complaint - see next paragraph). I would advise that all letters you send should be sent recorded delivery.
> 
> When you have exhausted all that - and not until - you should then make a complaint to the Ombudsman. Your complaint should start with a (very) brief summary of what your complaint is, preferably couched in terms that may point you on the road to success e.g. "The rise in premium is excessive and I believe that is targeted specifically at me because I have made a large claim and not because it is general across the business." Then give the full history - firstly the amount of time you have been insured, the premiums paid, the dates and sizes of claims made and then details of the latest premium they want to charge. If they have deviated from their complaints procedure you should also include that.
> 
> ...


*Please don't think I am nit picking but just wanted to add a few corrections in case anyone else wanting to make complaints is reading.

It doesn't matter who its addressed to a complaint is a complaint and all financial firms have to follow the standard complaints procedure under the FCA rules. They have to acknowledge and say will investigate and hope to complete within 8 weeks, they have to issue updates and let you know if not going to complete within 8 weeks and tell you if not prepared to wait then you can refer to FOS. However FOS can still say due to xyz circumstances then need to give them time (eg particularly complex cases). They then have to give you a final decision - these always have to say if you are not happy can go to FOS & provide the FOS brochure and contact details.

FOS will not take on any complaint until the selling agent has been given chance to address your complaint. You will need to send them copies of all your correspondence with the insurer. Eventually FOS will send you their decision (I have experinced cases taking over 2 years but they were very complex). It is an adjuticator who will have assessed your case, if you still do not agree their decision you can ask for it to be referred to an actual Ombudsman.*



victoria171168 said:


> Sorry for all the questions Albert
> If they dont reduce my premium then l will have to cancel my policy citing the fact of the unreasonable hike in premiums and being priced out of insurance.
> 
> If the ombudsman rules in my favour would they then have to reinstate the policy with original terms and conditions.


When you complain to FOS you say what resolution you are hoping for and yes it is possible for them to instruct insurers to reinstate policies



DirtyGertie said:


> Sorry you're not getting anywhere with AF.
> 
> It just occurred to me, if someone has health insurance (talking humans here) and developed a life limiting illness that was going to cost the insurance company a lot of money in treatment for the remainder of that person's life, would they be able to increase the premium to the same extent as AF have with Max's insurance . I have no experience of human health insurance so have no idea if this could happen but I sincerely hope it wouldn't.


In theory yes - renewals include calculations on a claims made basis but as probably the majority of PMI contracts are employer provided you don't get to hear about it so much.

You also get the same sort of exclusions for pre-existing conditions as you do with Pet insurance. As an example my son was covered under my medical insurance through work from when he was a tot, but because he already had asthma when the policy started anything related to that has always been excluded. If we were to change insurer than any staff who have claimed would find those conditions excluded under a new policy


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

In the full version of the complaints procedure that I'm waiting to post most of what you say is dealt with, however



DoodlesRule said:


> It doesn't matter who its addressed to a complaint is a complaint and all financial firms have to follow the standard complaints procedure under the FCA rules. They have to acknowledge and say will investigate and hope to complete within 8 weeks, they have to issue updates and let you know if not going to complete within 8 weeks and tell you if not prepared to wait then you can refer to FOS.


The compliance officer in all 'registered' firms has to oversee and make sure the published 'complaints' procedure is adhered to. I used to be one. It is a requirement that all registered firms have a compliance officer. That's why I suggest you write to him as _he_ must make sure the correct procedures are observed. If, at any point they are not, you have a fall-back of complaining that the company's compliance system has failed. That is extremely serious and can get the company banned from trading. In the case of Animal Friends the FCA have Elaine Marie Fairfax registered as the compliance officer.

They (the company) don't have to say anything to you, at all. However, not responding isn't a good idea. They do have to send you a copy of their complaints procedure - but there is no time limit on them doing so, providing it's within the 8 weeks. They do not have to give you any update, they are supposed to give you a final written decision within the 8 weeks from receipt of your original letter.

Until you have the final written decision OR 8 weeks have elapsed from the first complaint letter you sent the Financial Ombudsman will do nothing. At that point you have a time limit of six months to make a complaint to the Ombudsman service.



> However FOS can still say due to xyz circumstances then need to give them time (eg particularly complex cases).


Only after you have followed the 8 week rule.



> FOS will not take on any complaint until the selling agent has been given chance to address your complaint.


Actually, that's not correct. They will take your complaint and an adjudicator will ask the company to respond. At first the adjudicator acts, on an informal basis, as a mediator and tried to get both sides to agree.



> It is an adjudicator who will have assessed your case, if you still do not agree their decision you can ask for it to be referred to an actual Ombudsman.


Not strictly accurate. If the adjudicator cannot get you to agree a 'middle path' he will then enter into a 'formal' process. At this point he may ask for more documentation or supporting evidence both from complainant and the company being complained about. Having done so he will issue a decision.

If you disagree with his decision you can then ask for an appeal. At that point the case is referred to an Ombudsman. The Ombudsman's decision is final, _as far as the Financial Ombudsman's Service_ is concerned. No Ombudsman can overturn another's ruling.

If you still don't agree you can go to court. This, as I've said before, is a) extremely expensive and b) you are highly unlikely to win, as the Ombudsman's decision is almost certain to stand. I know of not one single case where it has been overturned.

Please note, in my original post I said 6 weeks. That should be 8.

In this case things were underway before action was taken. If you want a full description of exactly what to do, either in the case of an unrealistically high renewal premium or having a claim refused I've added it to my 'Buyer's Guide' (Page 18 onwards). That describes what you should do at the very start when things go wrong. [Click link in the sig below and then click "Buyer's Guide"] I am waiting for the mods to get back to me with a decision as to where that procedure should be posted on the forum (as it isn't dog specific).


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Unfortunately AF has given me their final decision, pay the premium or go away.whether the ombudsman will back me up remains to be seen.

They appear to be getting a lot of flack on their website recently about insurance problems, its a shame that they dont live up to their ethics and morals but that still doesn't help me with a terminally ill dog who they know barring a miracle won't live much longer.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Have you given any more thought to an earlier suggestion about raising funds for his medical care via alternative strategies such as putting a "chip in" or "donate" button on your FB page ( https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/fundraising)?

Or via doing sponsored walk(s), holding coffee mornings, etc, etc ( for other funraising ideas see : Great Charity Fundraising Ideas) ?

If I understood correctly, you need funds fast to not interrupt his medical care....and whatever the outcome with the ombudsman, it won't be fast.

Look, I know you are angry and upset with AF. Which was completely understandable until reading this, written by you, in June:

------------------

"Animal Friends

They paid out thousands on one of my deceased dogs and for Max so far £21,000 and rising and he is only 2.

Jessie is with More Than and they have paid out £3,000 for her.

Always go for lifetime and highest amount affordable as £4,000 goes very quickly if you need to see a specialist.

Personally l will always insure mine,not worth the risk not to."
-------------

As much as I feel for you and your boy.....and I really do.....ongoing payments of THIS magnitude aren't sustainable for ANY insurance company, regardless of ethics. They can't, it compromises the level of care afforded to all of their other customers.

Please explore other avenues. It CAN be done. Many breed clubs have a hardship fund or are doing special fundraisers. Moreover, actively engage your vets in this fundraising endeavour. They were the recipients of the 21 K, so they can give something back. If it wasn't for the heft of their invoices, you wouldn't be in combat with AF. Tell them you pay them 100 quid a month and you'd appreciate it if they carried on with the treatment. If they laugh nervously, remind them they did really well from his care so far and now it's their turn to demonstrate THEIR commitment since the insurance blew you off.

Good luck.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

I always understood l would get a price hike but not one of this magnitude.

As a business there is always a certain amount of loss adjustment included in policies for everyone and most insurance companies will factor this in for certain breeds, etc.yes he has had a lot spent on him but its a lifetime policy with unlimited lifetime cover. If they cant give that sort of continued level of service at a reasonable price then they need to readjust their policies on their websites.l didnt have a cheap policy.

I also know l am not the only one to have such a hike.if af had increased my premium fairly then what they lost now they would have regained through my customer loyalty.also they know l cant go anywhere else because of his issues.

I have had to take Max of the metacam as he started getting dark stools so for the moment he is on the holistic meds only atm. 

I have looked at some ways of helping his treatment costs and am talking to his oncologist and we are working out an action plan monday when we go see them for a checkup.there are a couple of possibilities that are different treatments to what he has now as all other chemo meds are more expensive.

he is really poorly atm so am waiting to see if its just a hiccup in his illness or the start of the end.
Whichever way we go he will have the best we can afford and that to me means no holidays, fancy haircuts and budgets will be rebalanced .l am also looking at other avenues of help but most seem to rely on me not working.have looked at things like gofundme but am aware they dont always help you quickly.also l work every weekend so am relying on a friend to do a car boot stall for me.

My caravan is also up for sale as that will ease the burden.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

Beware - I've had the same problem in the past with Direct Line. My dog's insurance went up from 46.00 pm to £111.00 ! As he was still having treatment for his ailments I had to keep him with them, its due up again in September and I can't wait to see what they want from me next. I challenged them on the increase and they actually had the nerve to admit that it was because we had claimed on the insurance over the previous year ....... I mean all he'd had was a double cataract operation and an addisonian crisis which meant he was at the RVC for two weeks or so - tee hee. I think we've had our money's worth though, I totted up how much they'd paid out on him over the last 3 years and it came to 26,000. Once the renewal comes through I'm going to change, there's a couple of places that I can get him cover for 24.00 pm, they won't cover previous conditions but neither now will Direct Line.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Daffers said:


> Beware - I've had the same problem in the past with Direct Line. My dog's insurance went up from 46.00 pm to £111.00 ! As he was still having treatment for his ailments I had to keep him with them, its due up again in September and I can't wait to see what they want from me next. I challenged them on the increase and *they actually had the nerve to admit that it was because we had claimed on the insurance* over the previous year ....... I mean all he'd had was a double cataract operation and an addisonian crisis which meant he was at the RVC for two weeks or so - tee hee. I think we've had our money's worth though, *I totted up how much they'd paid out on him over the last 3 years and it came to 26,000*. Once the renewal comes through I'm going to change, there's a couple of places that I can get him cover for 24.00 pm, they won't cover previous conditions but neither now will Direct Line.


I really don't understand why anyone is surprised at large premiums increases when you have had to make large claims - if you had claimed 26k on say your car or house insurance then similarly premiums at renewal would be much higher


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

I had 4 dogs with them for about 8 years, the total premiums came to 250.00 pm, I think they had enough money out of me too ..... like others on here I don't mind paying extra its the 50% plus plus extra, 20% would be more palatable.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I really don't understand why anyone is surprised at large premiums increases when you have had to make large claims - if you had claimed 26k on say your car or house insurance then similarly premiums at renewal would be much higher


It's not supposed to work like car insurance and losing a no claims bonus though is it. The idea of a lifelong insurance policy is not to be priced out deliberately if you start claiming. It's not lifelong if they do so, other on paper. People want peace of mind, that's why you take out insurance. If you can't protect your dog during it's entire life, as it develops possible illness, what's the point of taking out the insurance? More when "pre-conditions" limit potential options about going elsewhere.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Goblin said:


> It's not supposed to work like car insurance and losing a no claims bonus though is it. The idea of a lifelong insurance policy is not to be priced out deliberately if you start claiming. It's not lifelong if they do so, other on paper. People want peace of mind, that's why you take out insurance. If you can't protect your dog during it's entire life, as it develops possible illness, what's the point of taking out the insurance? More when "pre-conditions" limit potential options about going elsewhere.


I think thats why so many insurers have pulled out of the market to be honest, wasn't supposed to work that way but average claims I understand were in the hundreds of pounds and now they are in the thousands.

Probably isn't much point in lifetime any more - had my renewal yesterday and noticed they have changed the wording .... added in a bit that says will cover illness for the lifetime of pet _"provided we still offer cover_ (words to that effect haven't actual got it with me today). Thats the usual back covering so a complaint can't be upheld because they have warned they can withdraw from the market


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> I really don't understand why anyone is surprised at large premiums increases when you have had to make large claims - if you had claimed 26k on say your car or house insurance then similarly premiums at renewal would be much higher


I appreciate what you are saying, but in the case of the op her insurance is £380 or something a Month. That is unaffordable, and effectively pricing her out of the policy. The only people who can afford that type of increase are those with enough money they don't need insurance anyway! I doubt car or house insurance would increase by that much, even if your house burnt down and needed re building. Lifetime pet policies simply cannot be compared to house or car insurance, as you can shop around for the cheapest every year on those. You cannot do this with pet insurance. I agree that if you claim you can expect an increase, but it must be within the realms of affordability, otherwise what is the point?. I am expecting Red's insurance to rise as he gets older, and can afford it to rise, but not the the extent the op has experienced.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Buzzard said:


> ..... I agree that if you claim you can expect an increase,.....


I see no reason why that should be true. If you take out a lifetime cover the insurer should build in the risk factors appropriate to the animal before setting the premium. I would expect an increase of inflation plus 'a bit' - but the overall 'take' from all policies sold should take care of the payouts on individual animals. Remember - most people don't claim, at all.

Increasing your premium to 'pay back' what you have claimed, or will claim for, in the specific case where you are 'locked in' to a lifetime policy is, in my opinion, very, very poor business practice. Indeed, it's the sort of thing the FCA frown on and, in my experience, something the 'good' insurers don't do. In my own experience I've had a dog with a chronic condition insured with Pet Plan where the premiums every year fell well short of the payouts made. That's because they run their business well. (And possibly the fact that the front end and the underwriter are one and the same may be a factor).

I'm surprised at the Animal Friends attitude here, because I have a lot of feedback from happy customers. I'm looking forward to see what the Ombudsman says.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Just to clarify his policy started at £56 approx a month.

Last year it increased to £116:25 a month. 120%increase.not easy but was doable.

This year £408:67 a month. Not a reasonable increase for a terminally ill dog.

If l had that sort of disposable income l wouldn't have bothered with insurance in the first place.

Also my argument is still lifetime cover should have a certain % built into the po!icy to allow for claims.

If my policy had increased by £70 l wouldn't have quibbled though l probably wouldn't have been happy but l would have insured Max to maintain his cover.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

The amount of increase is indeed shocking, rather than saying we are not going to renew they clearly set the premium to such a level to deter you from renewing.

If you look on the FOS website there are all sorts of case studies. In the technical notes section this is what the ombudsman says about situations like yours so you probably have a fairly good case:

where the premium has increased

In some cases, the consumer complains that an insurer has substantially increased the premiums when renewing the policy. To decide the complaint, we will need to determine why the premium was increased.

If we find that there was an increase for all similar consumers, we might explain that the insurer was just exercising its commercial judgment. But if we think that the insurer increased the premium to deter that individual consumer from renewing, we are likely to uphold the complaint.


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Well everything has gone to the insurance ombudsman now.

So all l can do is sit and wait,am spreading Max's story wherever l can.
Its too late for him now but l would hate for anyone else to have to go through what we have.
At least my munchkin is now out of pain but l will always wonder if we could have tried something else if we had still been insured.

My alternative fb page

Animal friends are they really animal friends?

So if anyone feels like sharing this fb page l would appreciate it in memory of my poor munchkin.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

victoria171168 said:


> Well everything has gone to the insurance ombudsman now.
> 
> So all l can do is sit and wait,am spreading Max's story wherever l can.
> Its too late for him now but l would hate for anyone else to have to go through what we have.
> ...


I look forward to hearing what the ombudsman says. Sorry I'm not on facebook but I do tell as many people as I can about your terrible experience with Animal (not) Friends.


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