# Average cost of breeding a labrador



## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm just wondering what the average cost of breeding a labrador is.
I mean for the following things and any others that might crop up.
Health tests(hip/elbow/eyes)
Stud fee (i know some will take a puppy)
Kc registration.

Assuming there are no problems in pregnancy and birth what would be a average cost.
If you could list all necessary costs involved(I don't think scans are vital.)


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I'm just wondering what the average cost of breeding a labrador is.
> I mean for the following things and any others that might crop up.
> Health tests(hip/elbow/eyes)
> Stud fee (i know some will take a puppy)
> ...


Swarthy's your best bet for the costs, she's kept detailed records.

As far as I know, I've spent over £1000 health testing my two bitches, only to decide to have one spayed. Taking into account the costs incurred in their day to day keep, I think I'm on to a losing business proposition.

Health tests are as follows:
Hip score/Elbow Grade approx £200
BVA current clear eye cert £40
Optigen test for GPRA approx £90
DNA test for CNM approx £50

Whelping kit approx £1,000

Extra food and utilities - £500 approx

That's my rough guesstimate, add onto that, stud fees, which can vary immensely, but obviously you want what's best for a bitch AND what you're aiming for, as well as extra costs such as KC registration, microchipping, food for pups, etc, etc, etc.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

What does a whelping kit include.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

adbrad said:


> What does a whelping kit include.


Whelping bed
Heat Lamp
Extra Vet Bed
Dopram V drops

and a few other things I've forgotten since looking at the original costs! Trust me, it ain't cheap.....


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Surely some of it you could make or find from some where Is a heat lamp neccesary if you was going to keep the pups indoors


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Surely some of it you could make or find from some where Is a heat lamp neccesary if you was going to keep the pups indoors


Depends what short cuts YOU are willing to make, personally, I wouldn't want to breed without knowing I could provide the very best for any pups.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Dunno what it would cost now, but I bet its a lot more expensive since my last litter


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

adbrad said:


> Surely some of it you could make or find from some where Is a heat lamp neccesary if you was going to keep the pups indoors


i`d say it is...young pups around 0-2 weeks old are unable to regulate their own temp even indoors....& getting chilled can kill.

Its either a heat lamp / pad or keeping subtropical temperatures via heating the house over winter. Its not worth putting pups lives at risk to save the cost of a heat pad IMO


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I think you HAVE to save up and take into any costs like c-section, you never beleive it will happen to you, always someone else...but it does! extra vet visits, hand rearing taking time off work etc. even feeding mum cost double/triple!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

From my website:


> Breeding Responsibly ie from show/ working stock fully health tested
> 
> This is based on a Medium/Large breed, with 8 puppies, where no C section is required. It is also based on the fact that the breeder is unemployed, and thus does not miss out on any wages paid whilst the puppies are still residing with the Breeder.
> 
> ...


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

> Total Minimum Costs- £2916


Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.


: :


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.





Taylorbaby said:


> : :


I was refering to the post above mine
this one.


> Breeding Responsibly ie from show/ working stock fully health tested
> 
> This is based on a Medium/Large breed, with 8 puppies, where no C section is required. It is also based on the fact that the breeder is unemployed, and thus does not miss out on any wages paid whilst the puppies are still residing with the Breeder.
> 
> ...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> £700ish which is quite a lot.


Assuming there are no complications that is!

And it's not a lot compared to the time you put in raising a litter.

Are you thinking of breeding then?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.


My uncle got a lab pup from health tested parents bar elbows. They had four left at 10 weeks old from a litter of nine and had to reduce the prices. Don't think the average price is what you will get, sadly it isn't. Uncle paid £300 (we live in an expensive area and pups were from Chigwell).

Say by pure chance all your puppies are gone at 8 weeks old, £700 is £12.50 a day, not that much really lol!


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## MissBexi (Dec 27, 2009)

I am hoping to breed my Bedlington at the end of the year (money depending obviously) and this has certainly helped with knowing some of the costs. The stud's owners are keen to get a pup pretty quick but thankfully I feel I'm being pretty responsible in saying I don't plan to breed without the appropriate money behind me to support Suki and her pups and to give them the best start in life. 
I don't think many people make money from breeding.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Not sure if i would ever breed was just wondering about the general costs involved,if i ever did breed trixie at least the pups would be brought up around young children.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.


What if the bitch only has say 3 pups, then you have a loss  It's quite a gamble.

You can't really say "assuming no complications" i think you almost have to assume complications.

Imagine all that outlay then a difficult birth resulting in an emergency C Section and maybe just a singleton pup. Ouch that's going to hurt financially


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

And this is why its done out of love not as a business. I'm sure that you can make some money from it if you consider some of the things noted as part of your hobby, eg. showing, raising the litter and consider the cost of tests and food, shots etc just part of your fun. But you have to be prepared for a c section at all times and that means no profit what so ever. A lot of breeders put any profit right back into the dog for the shows etc. My husband loves his Harley's and his hobby money goes into those my hobby money goes into the animals. The rewards of raising a litter are priceless but can also be heart breaking.....


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Not sure if i would ever breed was just wondering about the general costs involved,if i ever did breed trixie at least the pups would be brought up around young children.


As Rainybow says, what happens if it's a small litter, and you make a loss? I know someone who decided to take a litter from their bitch, against all recommendations I might add as the bitch had high hip scores, and she went on to just have two pups. Ethical breeding is not about making a profit on a litter, it's about breeding for a reason, and with good intentions. I wouldn't gamble the life of my dogs, for a possible profit of £700, it's just not worth it. Nor is there any benefit to you having children and taking a litter, pups can be socialised just as well after leaving home, so that really isn't a good enough reason. Apologies if that comes across as harsh, it isn't meant to be, just realistic.


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## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

Kennel name is important (it's £75 now for a name  ) as you want a reputation in the ring!! It's all well and good showing your bitch who athirst comes from another breeder but without your kennel name on the end of it you won't be recognised with that dog their breeder will be!! If you breed it you then want your pups to have your affix not just some random name like 'Joe bloggs' you could have bred some amazing dog get them their titles and no one would have a clue who bred that dog without looking at the fatalities whereas if you have your kennel name in it you are recognised and creating your own line!!

My breed has on average 2-4 pups per litter if you're lucky.. Unlikely to make a profit of £700


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Sparkle said:


> Kennel name is important (it's £75 now for a name  ) as you want a reputation in the ring!!


That is very true for the responsible among us but for some folk its not important is it! Because all they want to do, is breed as much as they can, using whatever dogs they can, cutting corners where ever they can because all they want is to make loads of money. I mean their dogs are not that important to them unless they can pay their way


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

At the end of the day, unless your bitch is either a successful show dog or successful worker, there's no need to be thinking about breeding from her. I know I'm not the only one thinking the same


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

pearltheplank said:


> That is very true for the responsible among us but for some folk its not important is it! Because all they want to do, is breed as much as they can, using whatever dogs they can, cutting corners where ever they can because all they want is to make loads of money. I mean their dogs are not that important to them unless they can pay their way


I disagree. Lady who bred my dog doesn't have an affix. Why? She didn't want to label them with something that sounded silly as she couldn't think of anything decent and most were just going to pet homes and were not going to be bred from anyway. Sure she is more of a pet breeder, but she cares an enormous amount for her dogs, just because she has no affix doesn't mean she doesn't care. I think its hard to find a perfect breeder.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> What if the bitch only has say 3 pups, then you have a loss  It's quite a gamble.
> 
> You can't really say "assuming no complications" i think you almost have to assume complications.
> 
> Imagine all that outlay then a difficult birth resulting in an emergency C Section and maybe just a singleton pup. Ouch that's going to hurt financially


That's a good point, but i was basing it off the example of eight pups, ad i'm guessing it would be cheaper the less pups there are.



canuckjill said:


> And this is why its done out of love not as a business. I'm sure that you can make some money from it if you consider some of the things noted as part of your hobby, eg. showing, raising the litter and consider the cost of tests and food, shots etc just part of your fun. But you have to be prepared for a c section at all times and that means no profit what so ever. A lot of breeders put any profit right back into the dog for the shows etc. My husband loves his Harley's and his hobby money goes into those my hobby money goes into the animals. The rewards of raising a litter are priceless but can also be heart breaking.....


If i did decide to breed it would not be for money, but for the experience of it and would probably only ever be once.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

adbrad said:


> That's a good point, but i was basing it off the example of eight pups, ad i'm guessing it would be cheaper the less pups there are.
> 
> If i did decide to breed it would not be for money, but for the experience of it and would probably only ever be once.


i doubt it would be much cheaper as the major outlays would still all be the same just less food and after care with less pups, C section costs are pretty steep so you would have to factor that in and that would almost definately see you at a loss.

It is well worth having a good nosey round the breeding section of the forum and read some of the whelping threads, you will soon realise things can and do go very wrong :frown: Not sure i would put my dog through it or risk losing them unless it was for more than just the experience  Also what if you have a decent sized litter but then can't sell 4 of them, thats a real issue in the current climate.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> That is very true for the responsible among us but for some folk its not important is it! Because all they want to do, is breed as much as they can, using whatever dogs they can, cutting corners where ever they can because all they want is to make loads of money. I mean their dogs are not that important to them unless they can pay their way


My dog is very important to me, if she wasn't i wouldn't even bother of insuring her or getting her chipped, or be asking about health tests and such.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> i doubt it would be much cheaper as the major outlays would still all be the same just less food and after care with less pups, C section costs are pretty steep so you would have to factor that in and that would almost definately see you at a loss.
> 
> It is well worth having a good nosey round the breeding section of the forum and read some of the whelping threads, you will soon realise things can and do go very wrong :frown: Not sure i would put my dog through it or risk losing them unless it was for more than just the experience  Also what if you have a decent sized litter but then can't sell 4 of them, thats a real issue in the current climate.


I see your point there and I'm well aware things can and do go wrong, i'm just wondering about the costs for future reference as there is no way i would breed from her for a few years as she has only just turned 1, I'm aware its a big financial commitment and very time consuming, also i never ever said i was going to breed.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I see your point there and I'm well aware things can and do go wrong, i'm just wondering about the costs for future reference as there is no way i would breed from her for a few years as she has only just turned 1, I'm aware its a big financial commitment and very time consuming, also i never ever said i was going to breed.


I know  just pointing out things worth considering


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

adbrad said:


> My dog is very important to me, if she wasn't i wouldn't even bother of insuring her or getting her chipped, or be asking about health tests and such.


I'm sorry, that wasn't directed at you personally. It was general comment, I am dealing with many puppy farmers at the minute and my feelings are high and I can be rather blunt as a consequence


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.


£700 may sound alot but it is not alot as lets be honest any of these could happen:

-Mum could die.
-Mum could need a urgent op.
-Pups could die.
-1 or 2 pups may not sell until 15 weeks if not older. 
-You could have a small litter.

That money soon vanishes.

And kennel name imo is very important. My Kai's breeder didnt have a kennel name now...his name is "Another try"..so when we come to show him no one will know who he came from. We cant trace his litter sibblings. Nor his breeder if she moved.

I have a kennel name and am due to go to stud hopefully october/november depending on Alaska's seasons. I am happy to have my kennel name on my pups as I would like everyone to know these healthy, happy dogs are from me.

You cant cut corners. Not with a heat lamp/heat pads...nothing.
The second you start doing that you no longer do it for the love of the pups but for money. Cant afford it, dont do it. Or at least that's what people should be thinking.
:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

This whole thread is rather disappointing to see.

Anyone going into breeding looking at what cuts can be made (considering not providing heat for the pups as a way of saving money is baffling to me!!) and how much potential profit there would be is the WRONG way to look at it.

I have found that you're usually lucky to break even with a litter. With one labrador litter we made a very big loss. The bitch had to have an emergency c-section in the middle of the night as there was a dead puppy stuck, she only had a relatively small litter (5) and only one bitch, we had bred the litter to keep a bitch to show. We lost the bitch puppy at 5 weeks old, one of the dog puppies had to have a fairly major operation to repair a hole in his diaphragm (approx £700 surgery and aftercare) and then was given away to friends so no "profit" on selling him. We kept one of the other boys as we didnt want to breed a litter and keep nothing, so from approx £4000 all told in costs, we sold two puppies for £400 each. So we made a loss of about £3200.

And if you think thats unusal, think again. Breeding is great when it all goes to plan, but more often than not it doesnt.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

adbrad said:


> Some people have free calls so phone bill is irrelevant, and based on 8 pups if you could sell for £450 each being kc reg then you would still make £700ish which is quite a lot.
> And I'm sure a kennel name isn't important.





Jess2308 said:


> This whole thread is rather disappointing to see.
> 
> Anyone going into breeding looking at what cuts can be made (considering not providing heat for the pups as a way of saving money is baffling to me!!) and how much potential profit there would be is the WRONG way to look at it.
> 
> ...


100% agree.
(rep coming your way, if I dont have to spread it).


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Jess2308 said:


> This whole thread is rather disappointing to see.
> 
> Anyone going into breeding looking at what cuts can be made (considering not providing heat for the pups as a way of saving money is baffling to me!!) and how much potential profit there would be is the WRONG way to look at it.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to cut costs or even considering breeding yet and may not even breed ever the whole thread was trying to find out about costs, which has got way out of hand and personally think the thread needs closing.

If i was a mod i would close it.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I'm not trying to cut costs or even considering breeding yet and may not even breed ever the whole thread was trying to find out about costs, which has got way out of hand and personally think the thread needs closing.
> 
> If i was a mod i would close it.


Just because you havent had the replies you wanted doesnt mean it is "way out of hand", nor should it be closed. The replies are on the topic you started and are helpful. You cant have threads closed cos you dont like them 

BTW, it was you who said about cutting corners, remember? 



> Is a heat lamp neccesary if you was going to keep the pups indoors


Answer - OF COURSE!!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I'm not trying to cut costs or even considering breeding yet and may not even breed ever the whole thread was trying to find out about costs, which has got way out of hand and personally think the thread needs closing.
> 
> If i was a mod i would close it.


Oh my goodness this is nowhere near out of hand compared to most i have seen on this subject, i have actually been watching it thinking YAY this ones going well :scared:.

I think in the main the advice so far has been fair and honest, people have given costings and given other non monetary things to consider like not being able to sell the pups and having to keep them  In the main i think the comments on it are fine


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Jess2308 said:


> BTW, it was you who said about cutting corners


I wasn't on about cutting corners i was simply asking if it was a needed thing if they was going to kept in a house. and it's not cutting corners as you could save money by borrowing one.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I wasn't on about cutting corners i was simply asking if it was a needed thing if they was going to kept in a house. and it's not cutting corners as you could save money by borrowing one.


And the point i was making that going into it with the mindset of wanting to save money is NOT good when breeding. It is expensive, and as my post should have told you, you can end up very much out of pocket. You shouldnt even be thinking about what money can be saved.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Jess2308 said:


> And the point i was making that going into it with the mindset of wanting to save money is NOT good when breeding. It is expensive, and as my post should have told you, you can end up very much out of pocket. You shouldnt even be thinking about what money can be saved.


I can see it will be expensive,and as i said i was just curious as to what the costs would be and that is the whole point of the thread my trixie is way to young to be thinking about breeding off her, I've seen first had what breeding to early can do to a dog.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

adbrad said:


> I'm not trying to cut costs or even considering breeding yet and may not even breed ever the whole thread was trying to find out about costs, which has got way out of hand and personally think the thread needs closing.
> 
> If i was a mod i would close it.


This thread has not got out of hand at all, the replies you had were informative and helpful just because they are not what you want to hear does not mean that this thread could not help someone else.

I have crates and well a dog could have a litter in a crate no problem, so why should I pay out £100 for a whelping box? Because I want it done right. Which is the only way to do it.:thumbup:


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> the replies you had were informative and helpful just because they are not what you want to hear does not mean that this thread could not help someone else.


Not sure where the idea has come from, I have found the answers useful, but i know very little about breeding and when i ask a question like "is that needed, in this situation" then i get accused of trying to cut corners which is ot helpful,i'm just simply asking for further information.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

adbrad said:


> Not sure where the idea has come from, I have found the answers useful, but i know very little about breeding and when i ask a question like "is that needed, in this situation" then i get accused of trying to cut corners which is ot helpful,i'm just simply asking for further information.


Im sorry but thats not how it comes across. You were given a list of things you need and then you were questioning it and asking what you could get away with not having. It wouldnt have been suggested if you didnt need it so it comes across as though you were looking at way of cutting corners, then going on to talk about profits that could be made... Well, we've seen enough threads on here of people breeding their dogs to make money for it to set alarm bells ringing.

Either way, this thread is very informative for anyone wanting to know what is needed for breeding.


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Jess2308 said:


> Im sorry but thats not how it comes across. You were given a list of things you need and then you were questioning it and asking what you could get away with not having. It wouldnt have been suggested if you didnt need it so it comes across as though you were looking at way of cutting corners, then going on to talk about profits that could be made... Well, we've seen enough threads on here of people breeding their dogs to make money for it to set alarm bells ringing.
> 
> Either way, this thread is very informative for anyone wanting to know what is needed for breeding.


i guess i just forgot to put ? on the end, either way i would only ever do best by my dog, and her pups, if i was to ever breed. i'm just after a insight at the moment and i know there are experienced breeders on here who i'm hoping will share their knowledge.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

adbrad said:


> I'm not trying to cut costs or even considering breeding yet and may not even breed ever the whole thread was trying to find out about costs, which *has got way out of hand and personally think the thread needs closing.*
> If i was a mod i would close it.


no it hasnt and doesnt, some graet info on here From breeders! :thumbup:



adbrad said:


> I can see it will be expensive,and as i said i was just curious as to what the costs would be and that is the whole point of the thread my trixie is way to *young to be thinking about breeding off *her, I've seen first had what breeding to early can do to a dog.


Well, she isnt you should be doing your research now and yesterday!!



shetlandlover said:


> This thread has not got out of hand at all, the replies you had were informative and helpful just because they are not what you want to hear does not mean that this thread could not help someone else.
> 
> I have crates and well a dog could have a litter in a crate no problem, so why should I pay out £100 for a whelping box? Because I want it done right. Which is the only way to do it.:thumbup:


thats true, then you have the worry of them laying on them, so I think its worth the extra money for the whelping box & bars!!


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## adbrad (Jan 29, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Well, she isnt you should be doing your research now and yesterday!!


So your saying you would breed from a 1 year old labrador?


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

adbrad said:


> So your saying you would breed from a 1 year old labrador?


I read that to mean that you need to be researching ASAP (which you are doing) as it can take years to get testing done and find the right stud dog


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> So your saying you would breed from a 1 year old labrador?


No of course not - but your research should have already started and not just regarding the practicalities of whelping and costs. You need to research your bitch, be looking at potential studs etc. This can take years, and that doesn't include the practicalities. Ideally, you should have a mentor and be able to attend a whelping before considering breeding from your own bitch.

First thing - is she endorsed? If I remember rightly you have a Jimjoy lab in which case I would doubt it, but it would be the first thing to consider otherwise you cannot proceed until that is sorted.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

Jess2308 said:


> I read that to mean that you need to be researching ASAP (which you are doing) as it can take years to get testing done and find the right stud dog


Very true. We re-searched for years before we got Alaska, then we got Alaska and have the stud dog in mind. Alaska's only 16 months old now.

You get hip and elbow scores done after 12months of age. (in smaller breeds 12months is great as they are full grown by then). Then you have DNA tests which (I believe) the next optigen clinic is set to be in the UK in september/october this year (I dont think its published yet).


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

adbrad said:


> So your saying you would breed from a 1 year old labrador?


re-read it, I high-lighted the THINKING part, and said 'yesterday' as in, you should research about breeding about a year ago if you wanted to do it, and still researching now, even if she is 2years off breeding it should be researched 5 years before that!!



Jess2308 said:


> I read that to mean that you need to be researching ASAP (which you are doing) as it can take years to get testing done and find the right stud dog


yep!!


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> thats true, then you have the worry of them laying on them, so I think its worth the extra money for the whelping box & bars!!


Exactly. 
Cut corners and you may not be one of the lucky ones.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

adbrad said:


> I'm just wondering what the average cost of breeding a labrador is.
> I mean for the following things and any others that might crop up.
> Health tests(hip/elbow/eyes)
> Stud fee (i know some will take a puppy)
> ...


There are (or should be) NO short cuts when it comes to breeding.

The Book of the Bitch - around £10 - a darn good read of ALL of Tanya's website - Thinking Of Breeding Your Dog?

A good read of the Labrador Health website of what can go wrong with puppies - Welcome to Labrador Health - and also covers the minimum and recommended health tests before breeding.

Hips and elbows using sedation - around £250 plus £90 BVA Fee - and any travelling costs for the vet (the vet I use is a 4 hour round trip)

Go for hips and elbows under GA and you can add another £100+ to that (plus the extra risks to the bitch)

Annual eye test - now minimum £50 for the first dog unless you can find a clinic whose timing suits (this is an annual cost) - and dogs can fail at 12 months or 12 years.

DNA Testing for PRA - £120 for the test plus blood vet blood drawing costs and costs of sending to the States - so around £150

DNA test for CNM - £48

Pre-mate testing - you usually have to buy the kits as the vets don't keep them as stock items - so around £120 + =- plus your vets fee for each blood drawing - expect up to around 5/6 tests particularly for a maiden. (so around £200)

Stud Fee - arround £350 to £500 - Plus any associated travel and accommodation costs - you will need two visits - my first stud was an 18 round trip - my other two were closer at around 10 hours and 4 hours so did two visits (unless you have a top quality bitch, few stud dogs will take a puppy - and if they do retain the option, and decide not to, they will still want their stud fee - there are a small number of stud dog owners that work on a base fee plus 'x' amount per puppy born - more common on the continent - but it is practiced in the UK - although I am not aware of any Lab breeders that do).

Scanning - if using a vet around £75 - if you are lucky enough to know a sheep scanner you can get it a bit cheaper


Total Spent - around £1,400 - that's of course assuming your bitch has passed all the tests - and your bitch isn't in whelp at this point. I've had dogs I've invested all the tests in and they've been unsuitable to breed from - I've had dogs who've disliked the whole experience so much, I wouldn't put her through it again - even though she gave me my best litter yet.

I've spent over £1,400 on health tests in the last 12 months alone and not bred a pup.

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Whelping Box - some clever people can make their own - I paid around £200 for a Link-a-Bord - and it is excellent - and re-usable if looked after

Puppy pens - and possibly, extra crates, if like me, you start house and crate training before they leave (as it eases the passage into their new home).

I probably spend around £150 on new vet bed each time I have a litter planned

Incidentals - Glucose, nursing scissors, gloves, bottles, lactol, towels, weighing scales, heat lamps / pads etc

My bitches go onto a quality puppy food at about 5/6 weeks pregnant - and are on around 7 meals a day.

After whelping - they eat a couple of kilos of puppy food a day. around a litre of Lactol, a whole chicken (daily), oily fish, rice pudding, and anything else I can put into them - have you see what a litter of 7/8 pups takes out of a bitch?

At weaning - my pups go onto a high quality puppy food, supplemented by fish, chicken, beef, rice pudding, and again, anything else I think they will enjoy.

(my food bill for a litter comes to well in excess of £800)

If it is a winter litter - be prepared to have the heating on 24/7 - be prepared to have the washing machine on 95 degree cycles pretty much 24/7 followed by tumble drying - my quarterly bill for my very cold winter litter was £700 more than normal.

If it is a summer litter be prepared for 24x7 cooling - but the washing has to continue 

3 lots of worming for the litter - around £40

KC registration per pup (used to be £12 - I have a suspcion it has gone up -as transfers have recently to £15) - possible advertising on the KC website - free for AB - £20 otherwise.

Microchipping - between £20 to £25 per pup - and whatever happens with the welsh laws - I suspect this element WILL become mandatory - and the rest of the UK will follow. (not a problem for me as I chip my pups anyway)

Puppy packs - which can include a whole range of things from contracts to food to toys, to food vouchers

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You need money available to cover veterinary intervention - which could be - as in our last litter - simply an extra scan - oxytocin and calcium blood levels (c£150) or an out of hours C-Section - anything up to about £1200.

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Having a puppy screaming in your arms and then dying after a week of feeding it and nursing it - agonising.

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If you work for yourself - time out of the business - if you work for someone else - holidays and unpaid leave or ensuring that someone is with the puppies 24x7 for 8 weeks plus at least a week before the bitch's due date.

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My last litter - we somehow managed to bring KC in - we were lucky that all pups came through it unscathed - but still had a nice little vets bill of around £400 as I had to treat all my adult dogs at the same time.

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In addition to the financial sacrifices - expect many days with NO sleep, hands drier and more chapped than you ever knew possible - your house stinking of p** and pee for at least 4 weeks (and spending a fortune on smellies and candles) - puppy buyers who turn up an hour later than expected when all the critters were clean and smelt fresh. Litters are also particularly trying on even the strongest relationships when everyone is on board.

A willingness to keep all pups until they sell, and be able to keep and train them separately, get them vaccinated and socialised. Be prepared up to a point to take a pup / dog back or AT LEAST assist with rehoming.

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In all of the above - the only corner that can reaslistically be cut is making a whelping box if you are handy in that way - it needs to be large enough to cater for a labrador litter and mum - this could mean 1 pup or 14 - mum needs to be able to get in and out easily - while puppies don't.

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In four years I've bred three litters - apart from a bit of oxytocin and an extra scan and the loss of a two pups - they've all been pretty much text book and I DO realise how very lucky I have been.

Financially, not including any loss of earnings through time taken out of the business, I lost money on my first and third litters and made enough on my second one to buy myself a new Dyson.

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I don't breed for the money, I breed because I want to enhance my lines and am working towards something specific - it's been expensive, heartbreaking, damned hard work (pretty near marital splitting at times) - and yes, also rewarding - because I've moved a step closer to my goal.

Last year for various reasons, I bought in a pup rather than breed - but yes, I will have pups again in the future - but only when I am ready to add to my lines and want a pup I can keep, hopefully show, and IS an improvement on my existing dogs.

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Not sure if that answers your question - it's not about money (if it was - only commercial breeders would do it)

You lay out a lot of money before you even get sight of a pup - and even then, until those pups are 8 weeks + and go off to their new homes, there is no guarantee that things won't go wrong.

You should have a waiting list for pups before even considering breeding - but don't let that fool you into thinking you have sold your pups - people drop out and mess people around for all sorts of reasons - in a breed as common as Labradors, it is hardly surprising when the majority of people are looking for pets - it can happen to the top breeders - so it's even more likely to those at the 'bottom of the chain' / newbies starting out - and believe me, a lot of them don't tell you.

It also doesn't matter how good a relationship you have developed with prospective owners - all that can change in a second when you meet them - I always insist they meet my older 'crazy gang' before they get sight of the pups - how they react there can tell you a huge amount about how they will be with a dog who will be a tiny puppy for what feels like ten minutes, and a 30kg dog often with the mentality of a puppy for a lot longer.

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ETA - every mating and whelping also runs the risk that the bitch and pups can die - I know recently of someone whose bitch died and had to raise 12 surviving pups single handedly - that is NO mean feat. Another friend had to take her bitch away from the pups very early after she was taken seriously ill - and had to hand rear a litter of 6 pups - and then had to deal with mum wanting to be with them when she returned home.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

swarthy said:


> There are (or should be) NO short cuts when it comes to breeding.
> 
> The Book of the Bitch - around £10 - a darn good read of ALL of Tanya's website - Thinking Of Breeding Your Dog?
> 
> ...


Rep and a "like" for you.
Your posts are always helpful and very informative.:thumbup:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Thorne said:


> At the end of the day, unless your bitch is either a successful show dog or successful worker, there's no need to be thinking about breeding from her. I know I'm not the only one thinking the same


This is not wholly true - for all sorts of reasons, because my bitch didn't work out from a top kennel, I went back and bred from my fully health tested bitch - BUT - I put a huge amount of research into it - I've developed a database of over 40K dogs, colours, health test results, failures, high hips, low hips. Often dogs, also produce offspring of much higher quality than themselves, and the reserve also applies - if you bred only from the very top dogs - then the PF would be having a field day 

The aim is to improve on conformation, health, temperament (which should be pretty much faultless to start with - particularly with Labs) and working instinct / biddability.

Anyone who starts off considering things such 'what money you could make out of it' or simply believes being around children are good enough reasons falls far lower in the chain to me than someone setting out with a particular goal in mind (and that may take many generations).

Only my eldest girl was brought up around children - and my daughter is now grow up and left home (and thankfully neither her or my stepson have yet presented me with any grandchildren ) - but Labrador instincts in particular are incredible.

I took my lovely (but still rather bouncy ) boy to a show recently - and a clearly disabled man with downs syndrome / learning difficulties made a beeline for him - my heart was in my mouth for a moment or two, but you wouldn't have recognised my nutty boy - he instinctively knew this was 'different' and he responded accordingly - likewise when my partner, currently awaitng surgery on his knee had to take him in the ring for BOB - his behaviour was entirely different because he 'knew' - he was also totally different with my friends 2 year old daughter - because that's just the type of breed they are if well socialised. (although the same rules apply to Labs as any dog and never leave alone with a small child).

If you do make money out a litter - fantastic - as it would only go back into the insurance / treat / show pot anyway - but it should NEVER be cited as a justifiable reason for breeding.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Why on earth would you spend a £1000 on a whelping kit :scared: I have bred several litters and common sense is the most important ingredient. I cant believe anyone would spend a £1000 on a few odds and ends. A heat lamp really doesnt cost a great deal. A whelping box is easy and cheap to make. Newspaper is a perfectly acceptable bedding. Some puppy milk is useful to have by you but you can often get it on sale or return and are highly unlikely to need it. Adding phone calls on to the costs is ridiculous. If you enjoy yapping to people (as I do) then it is part of life and as someone else said most people have any time or at least evening and weekend free calls - in fact they come as standard with most phone deals.

I can honestly say that, though I am sure I have not made money on litters I have bred, mainly because I used to breed shelties who have tiny litters (and I did have a lot of bad luck) the costs were really not great at all. And my standard poodle, apart from extra food which is a minimal cost, really didnt have any big outlays.
I am sure that the average pet breeder does not spend much money and does not often have any unexpected costs.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Why on earth would you spend a £1000 on a whelping kit :scared: I have bred several litters and common sense is the most important ingredient. I cant believe anyone would spend a £1000 on a few odds and ends. A heat lamp really doesnt cost a great deal. A whelping box is easy and cheap to make. Newspaper is a perfectly acceptable bedding. Some puppy milk is useful to have by you but you can often get it on sale or return and are highly unlikely to need it. Adding phone calls on to the costs is ridiculous. If you enjoy yapping to people (as I do) then it is part of life and as someone else said most people have any time or at least evening and weekend free calls - in fact they come as standard with most phone deals.
> 
> I can honestly say that, though I am sure I have not made money on litters I have bred, mainly because I used to breed shelties who have tiny litters (and I did have a lot of bad luck) the costs were really not great at all. And my standard poodle, apart from extra food which is a minimal cost, really didnt have any big outlays.
> I am sure that the average pet breeder does not spend much money and does not often have any unexpected costs.


I don't spend £1K on a whelping kit - but I also don't cut corners on anything from health testing to taking chances, chosing the right stud and ensuring that my puppies get the best possible start in life - THAT costs money.

Extra food is minimal cost yes if you stick to basics - I don't - because I have found a significant difference in the consitution of puppies raised solely on puppy food and those who have a varied diet, they have tougher tummies and are less prone to difficulties with food changes and allergies - and until the evidence proves to me otherwise I will continue to do the same - whatever it costs.

I've got no objection to someone breeding if they do it properly - but when they see £££ as the end goal - it's the wrong reason to breed.

I don't spend a penny on phonecalls - free call contracts with BT, Skype and email see to that.

As for using Vetbed for my puppies - yep - I use paper too and a hell of a lot of it - and will continue to do the same.

Whether things do or don't go wrong is irrelevant in the great scheme of things - you have to be prepared for it - and it DOES happen and hand rearing a litter for 8 weeks PLUS is damned hard work.

There are MUCH MUCH MUCH easier ways to make money than breeding a litter - two weeks of my business creates far greater income than an average size litter of Lab puppies for far less investment.

Yes - you can make whelping boxes if you are that way inclined - but why scimp on a living creature which will hopefully give a family 12 + years of happiness and enjoyment as opposed to heartache and vetbills? I know which way I would rather go.

And yes, I am well aware that even when you do everything right things can go wrong - but that's where conscience comes in - and if you are prepared to cut corners and take risks, then as far as I can see - you can't have one (and that's not aimed at anyone - that's just MY view)


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