# Help with New Puppy - Sweet but VERY SHY



## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Hello, I have a 4-month old lab/collie mix puppy named Gloria who we have had for six days. Gloria is a beautiful, calm puppy who is no trouble at all and can be very sweet and playful when she is comofortable. 

The problem is that she is only comfortable when she has backed herself into a corner somewhere in the house where she can see the entire room. Once there, she will not budge from that corner, not even to eat. When you call her or play just outside of her reach, she whimpers and fidgets as if there is an invisible fence keeping her from you. Sometimes she moves as if she is about to get up, whimpers, and sits back down. Other times, she gets brave, and runs a loop around the room with her tail between her legs, head down, and back to one of her corners without stopping along the way. She will play, wag her tail, paw you, and give puppy kisses if you come to her corner, but will do none of these things anywhere else. 

This makes training impossible because she will not move, and nothing we have tried (affection, treats, playing) can coax her out. This means we have to carry her if we need her to relocate! Luckily she did figure out the potty-training, we just have to carry her to the door because she will not walk there. 

That being said, once outside, she is much braver. She will walk around and even run with us, with little problem - she does sit down and refuse to budge every once in a while, and noises still bother her, but she is getting much better and can be coaxed to keep moving. She interacts wonderfully with children, and is shy but calm with strange adults. 

I am really starting to get worried, because her behavior has only improved very little since she has arrived (when she first entered the house, she stood like a statue for hours, not budging eyes or body). Her nose has also become very dry, I suspect it is because she only drinks water if we bring it to her, and is not getting enough. We have made artificial corners by blocking off areas with pillows and such, to bring her closer to the center of the room. Please help! We love Gloria and she is a fantastic dog, we just want her to feel safe and happy in our home. Thank you!


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## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Wow! Have you asked the breeder if she's had this with any of her other pups? Did you take her to the Vets when you got her to have them check her out at all? 

It concerns me that you've only just got her and she's already 4 months old, was the breeder taking the puppies out and about and getting them to experience new things?

What flooring do you have in the house, wood carpet or a mixture and do you notice any difference when she walks on them? And what flooring was she on where you got her from?

Firstly I would totally get her into clicker training, she'll be a bright dog and being able to do things and figure stuff out for herself will increase her confidence. :yesnod: With a dog like this I'd try feeding a lot of her food with a clicker, so you're clicking for her coming towards you and away from the corners, have you heard much about clicker training in any puppy books you might have?


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Hi and thanks for the response! To answer your questions: no, I haven't asked about the rest of the litter, but I certainly can: our breeder was out in the countryside and it seemed like the pups were quite sheltered - they lived in a barn on a straw flooring. No city sounds, no house. They were very comfortable in this environment. The breeder took her to the vet, and she received all shots and dewormings, but I have an appointment for her next week to visit our vet as well. We have carpet flooring in the house, and she doesn't seem to care much about the different flooring textures, but I will pay closer attention. Our carpet is quite old (but clean!)and I was wondering if maybe something in the carpet was spooking her. 

I have heard about clicker training but didn't really understand it. Gloria shows anxiety around loud noises, so I hadn't considered it previously, but will definitely learn more!

Oh, and I really should have mentioned this in my first posting, but I forgot. We do have a cat in the house, too. Strangely enough, Gloria does not appear to have any concern about the cat - she has walked right up to it several times when on her "comfort route" with no problems. The two have touched noses with no issue (our cat lived with another dog before). Just thought I'd mention it since it could be another factor. It doesn't seem to be people or animals that scares her, just the circumstance she is in right now.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

The only thing I can think is that she feels crowded. Maybe you should just ignore her for a while, let her do her own thing, don't call her, don't take food to her, don't pet her. If you do any of these things when she's fearful, you are basically rewarding this kind of behaviour so she thinks it's acceptable and correct.


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you - yes, we are experimenting with this approach. My concern comes from the fact that she went for an entire day and half without food or water (when it was in the same room) and I didn't want her to get sick. So we still bring her water occasionally and carry her to the door to go out. 

Update: As I am writing this, my mother just told me that she ran to the water dish, took a few drinks, then ran back to her corner of choice, which is another first...!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

When I read your first post, I was going to post to ask about where they were born and raised, then I saw your 2nd post. Pups ae usually stressed to a degree just by leaving mum and littermates, having a journey and finding themselves in a strange place. If she was born and raised outside and has never seen a house and everyday appliances even things like the TV, hoovers and stuff will be extra hard, so she will need to adjust to it all in her own time. Maybe make her a comfy corner, with her bed and chews and toys, where she can watch and learn from. Then give her time to come out and explore in her own time at her own pace. She will it may just take a little longer to adjust than most pups, its all very strange and new at the moment.


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

I think that is very sound advice. Thank you


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Your home is obviously very different to the environment she knows and it will take time for her to feel comfortable in it. I agree with sled dog that all she needs is time to adjust to such different surroundings.
Also agree with shazalhasa about rewarding fearful behaviour by giving her attention. It's a very positive sign that she has come out of her corner and had a drink too, showing you that she won't let herself go without water when she needs it.

Puppy training classes will also help build her confidence I would think. 

Keep us posted on her progress, would love to know how she gets on.


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## daisy_may (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi! Found this interesting! Having the same problem with our new Sibe puppy (although he's only been here 1 day) he is the Shyest most timid little baby I've ever ever seen! I'm hoping in a week or so he will come out of himself a bit. He is scared of everything! Probably me the least but still - If I move too quick he darts like a bullet straight into his crate. He doesnt seem to like playing with toys and just sleeps alot My last poor puppy (who was put to sleep bless him) was a loony! Always playful, wanted attention ect.... So I know how you feel! I keep thinking he doesn't like us lol xxx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

daisy_may said:


> Hi! Found this interesting! Having the same problem with our new Sibe puppy (although he's only been here 1 day) he is the Shyest most timid little baby I've ever ever seen! I'm hoping in a week or so he will come out of himself a bit. He is scared of everything! Probably me the least but still - If I move too quick he darts like a bullet straight into his crate. He doesnt seem to like playing with toys and just sleeps alot My last poor puppy (who was put to sleep bless him) was a loony! Always playful, wanted attention ect.... So I know how you feel! I keep thinking he doesn't like us lol xxx


Was your sibe pup raised in the home, or was he raised outside in a kennel in a quiet environment too and was he the same at the breeders and with his litter mates? Depending on his previous enviroment it might be just leaving mum and litter mates and if not used to a home that might explain it. Sibes pups in general though are usually pretty full of themselves mostly and into everything. Just keep and eye on him, it could be just a culture shock, and he could well just need to adjust, but if he continues to sleep a lot, doent seem interested in anything, then it might be worth having him vet checked in a day or too, or obviously sooner if he does begin to show any signs of being unwell.


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Hello all, thank you again for all your posts! I have an update about our puppy Gloria. For about a week, we took the hands-off approach and allowed her to hide out in her corners, where she observed us and learned about all the new noises. As I said before, Gloria never had any issues with socialization, and she would always wag her tail and be ready to play when we approached her corner, she was just jumpy otherwise and would not under any circumstances (chicken and liver included!) leave her area.

On about the eighth day (yesterday), as we noticed that she was much less anxious, we began to try a different approach. With the aid of a well-fitted harness, we began to patiently but firmly coax Gloria to her food dish and the door so that she could begin to feed and relieve herself without being carried. She did not like this at first (and at times still does not), but to our delight, she began to eat and drink heartily, climb the stairs, show open affection, and walk through doorways on her own (thresholds were always an issue). In the house, during training periods, she stays on the leash even if we are just watching TV, and we restrict her from running to her corners. She likes to lean on our legs or sit at our feet, and is now comfortable playing with us in the middle of the room.

Our theory is that as her genuine fears wore off, Gloria became accustomed to the fact that she was getting her preferred result from her fearful actions (being allowed to remain in her comfort zone). We think she began to actually exercise a type of dominance by doing so. When we started to assert our will instead, and showed her that we would persist until we got our desired result, she became quite cooperative, and her confidence actually began to bloom (we discovered that she loves to swim in the creek!). We recalled with a laugh that Gloria was definitely a leader in her litter when we first met her, and now we see that her strong will had not left her when she came to us. She now takes a normal level of interest in things happening around the house, although she is not yet at the point where she will investigate on her own. If we are exerting pressure on the other end of her leash, she seems much more secure. One thing is for sure, though  we would never have been able to take this approach had we not taken your advice to let her learn about us at her own pace.

But we are not out of the woods yet! Gloria is still stubborn at the beginning of her walks and comes to a complete halt for seemingly no reason, and bolts for her corners when she hears a new noise. When she encounters a new room, she becomes a complete statue and barely moves her eyeballs, and she is not willing to explore the house on her own. If left to her own devices, she still runs to the corner and tries to get us to come to her by whimpering and wagging her tail pitifully. Contrarily, she also uses her collie/lab strength to resist pull hard on the leash when she wants to go another way, or when she digs her heels in. Though she has responded well to our new approach for the past two days, she always manages to surprise us with a new development, so I am still open to comments or ideas to keep this ball rolling! Daisy_may, I am curious to hear how your pup is faring, perhaps we can learn from your experiences, too


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

labcolliemom said:


> Our theory is that as her genuine fears wore off, Gloria became accustomed to the fact that she was getting her preferred result from her fearful actions (being allowed to remain in her comfort zone). We think she began to actually exercise a type of dominance by doing so.


No, *NO!* For gawd sake a fearful pup is not *Dominant*, a dominant dog would be controlling and contesting your right to cross thresholds, preventing you from eating by stealing and aggressive controlling displays; generally bossing you about and scaring you.

What you're doing (hopefully) is gradually desensitising her to the novelties, and helping over come the fears and habitual corner skulking behaviour. Building up positive associations to desirable activities and a healthy pup likes activity not being passive and avoiding interactions with the world.

In last nights post-Crufts show "How to buy a Puppy" KC accrediated breeders were shown with intended pet pups, experiencing a domestic environment and getting habituated to household sounds like vacuum cleaners. For a breeder to not take an intended pet to age 4 months, without experience of domestic conditions would perhaps be considered rather negligent, they should know about habituation. You've also missed the key easy window for puppy socialisation before a fear period.

Unfortunately this early experience cannot be fully replaced; however with understanding and gradual desensitising. The dominance based ideas would lead you to the wrong conclusions, and you could overwhelm & perhaps traumatise a pup who's having to catch up and adapt to very unnatural change in living conditions.

See AVSAB - Position Statement on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behaviour Modification of Animals

My Collie pup, exhibited at 3-4 months a fear of water after an incident and then later traffic, which I overcame by desensitising and a patient, calmly reassuring approach and minimising the perceived problem by showing no reactions. Collie's ain't no relatively insensitive happy-go-lucky gun dog but creatures with much nervier tendencies prone to insecurity. Dominance theory will have you barking up the wrong tree.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

The reason your pup was outgoing and confident in the litter was probably because she was entirely in her comfort zone and because she had back of the litter. Nothing was strange, and her world was what she had been born into it was totally familiar and nothing was strange of scary. Therefore she had no reason to show fear or uncertainty.

Fast forward, shes without back up of the litter, had a car journey she had never been in or seen before, been brought into something totally alien, totally surrounded by things that make noises, do strange things and with these totally strange people. No gruadual introduction at a steady pace, just swamped with new sights sounds and situations. Its probably something akin to you waking up finding yourself on a space ship aand being dropped off on Mars.

Forget the Dominance theory, stopping and digging her heels in and not wanting to move. is fear and uncertainty of whats ahead, nothing to do with stubborness and dominance and wanting her own way. Freezing with eyes as big as saucers, if fearful, uncertain behaviour. Dogs can practice shut down
literally freeze aand sut themselves off to their surroundings. Trying to run away is flight instinct removing them selves from the situation,they cannot cope with. Dogs only have a limited response to fear, Flight (Run away) Fight
show fear agressive tendencies (Barking lunging snapping) In the hope they can "scare" it away, and avoidence (Showing appeasement, submissive non confrontational behaviour,whimpering, rolling on their backs leg in the air exposing their underbelly) Or shut down, Literally freezing on the spot almost mentally removing themselves from the situation. A stressed dog can also drool,lick their lips and yawn,avert their gaze and not make eye contact. Bow their heads, tucked tail. These are all signs too.

In the critical stages of developement there are also two fear periods and other stages.
Attraction 5 to 7 weeks, Pups begin to notice other things and begin to form attractions to people, threatening sounds, gestures,scolding ans pnishement,
physical force or even sudden loud noises can damage the social attraction.
Introducing new people at this stage gets them ready for their new homes.

Human socialisation 7 to 12 weeks, pups begin to have the brain waves of adults and the capacity to process experiences.

Fear Impact 8 to 11 weeks. Nature gives a pre programmed fearfullness, to stop pups getting into more than they cann handle, as this is the age they start to begin to explore.

They have a 2nd Fear of the Unknown period which can occur between 6 to 14mths. Even pups who have had all the critical stages that come before dealt with correctly and have been curious and outgoing, can suddently react to sights sounds and situation again with uncertainty and fear. scolding and reprimanding can heighten the fear, petting and soothing can reward and re-inforce it. They need to be treated with tolerance and time to learn that the fears are unjustified.

Pushing a pup, and overloading, can start to manifest in other behaviours like fear aggression. A pup who practices flight or avoidence or appeasement, and doesnt get the desired result, can then be forced into fight, showing fear aggressive tendencies to remove the fear instead, which can take different forms.

You do need to encorage her to explore and bond, and try different things,
but the best way is in reward base training, getting her to come to you and follow you and reinforce it with reward, maybe play or treats. Distraction from the fear is much better, If you want her out of the corner, have a toy or a treat and encourage her to come, Do a game of find it, throwing treats of putting down a trail so she uses her nose to sniff them out. Use high value ones,like cheese chicken hotdogs. Things that will be that more interesting,
liver cake is good too, anything that will get her nose going and is strong smelling.

Hope this will give you some insight and ideas.


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## daisy_may (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi sled dog hotel! I'll give you a typical day (or today which was day 3)

6:00am - got up, he was in his crate - having his "husky" say to tell us he was awake and lonely. Other half cleaned up woopsies and I went outside with him and he had a wee.

6:30 - 8:30 - I watched tv and he sat next to me on the sofa 1/2 asleep 1/2 awake. 

8:30-9:00 - I put him in the kitchen until I had got dressed ect, he howled until I came back. Gave him breakfast, ate in about 60 seconds lol ! 

9:00 - 11:30 - I sorted some emails ect...whilst he snoozed on the couch next to me. 

11:30 - Someone came to the house to see me - he ran away Back to his spot on the sofa. Friend left at 12.

1:00 - one of my customers came to the house to see him, he was "okay with her" but not like a puppy normally is - he let her stroke his chest, this is good for him!! Normally turns away ect. Friend left at 2.

2:30 - 5:00 - took him to pet shop and got a harness and lead, again, VERY shy with everyone. Went to visit family member, he was quite sheepish, went to sleep for 1 hour and then took him out to wee. Slept in car on way home.

5:00 - 11:00 - Slept and sat on couch mostly. A few growls at my other half. He is very wary of him and it's upsetting him as he hasn't done anything. Fed him at 5 - wolfed it down as usual! Few toilet trips ect... He is eating/drinking/toileting fine! He is actually fantastic in the house. No chewing, not really any accidents. 

11:00pm - put him to bed.....now listening to him
Howling on and off. 

Just trying to give you a rough idea as to how he behaves. He is from a great KC registered breeder, and he has had all vaccunations/flead/wormed.

He was brought up outside I think with litter mates, not too sure how much interaction he's had with people, but he wasnt mistreated in any way, the breeder loves her huskys As she has loads of her own. But I'm really worried he's going to grow up timid and vicious? 

I might be over reacting, I'f you remember I had a bad experience last year with my poor husky puppy who had PKD. It's taken me nearly 4 months to get another puppy and he's just so adorable I love him! But just so so shy and frightened of mainly people? He was fine this morning with the vacuum/mop/car/washing machine. I'm baffled! x


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

He does seem fine in every other way, its good that he is coping with all the household appliances and environment. It just seems that he is unsure with people. A lot does depend on the amount of previous handling and how many people he has been introduced too prior to you getting him, and how positive
those experiences were.

He does seem shy and unconfident with people for some reason, I think the best way to go would be some gentle firm training, and some confidence building taking your time and giving him patience. When people come or you take him to family and friends, I would personally ask them not to immediately fuss and try to stroke and talk to him. Give him a bit of time and initially ignore him, let him weigh them up in his own time too see what he thinks. I would make sure they have some tasty treats, when he starts to look curious about them, ask them to slowly and gently but still ignoring him, throw a couple of treats in his direction, then see if he will come nearer and nearer until he takes one by their feet or by their chair, still not taking any notice of him. Then maybe try holding out one on the hand, and see if he will take a couple. if he does, then try speaking softly, then more treats, see if he will allow a gentle stroke, followed with another treat, then if thats ok, then full
contact softly speaking, gentle stroke then eye contact. More treats too.

Also make sure that you do plenty of play with him, things like rolling a ball,
just interacting and doing things, when he plays and show confidence re-inforce it with gentle praise and treats.

He should realise then that people mean good things, like treats and play, but not in a way thats over whelming. Just take your time and work with him at a slow steady pace.


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Good insight to the dominance question, we will keep that in mind to ensure that we are not pushing her into anything that makes her fearful. However, blocking off her hiding places and leading her with the leash is giving us great progress, which is very encouraging! Not sure if you noticed in my earlier post, but she ignores chicken, liver, and peanut butter when in her corner, so any other non-traditional suggestions are welcome. Gloria is becoming quite attached to us which is great, and we continue with crate training at night to ensure that separation anxiety does not develop. We just had a good 10th day with Gloria and are looking forward to when she will consistently explore the world on her own!


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Collie's ain't no relatively *insensitive* happy-go-lucky *gun dog* .


Do I need to take exception to that on Mia's behalf !!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## ladyalex (Mar 10, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> No, *NO!* For gawd sake a fearful pup is not *Dominant*, a dominant dog would be controlling and contesting your right to cross thresholds, preventing you from eating by stealing and aggressive controlling displays; generally bossing you about and scaring you.
> 
> What you're doing (hopefully) is gradually desensitising her to the novelties, and helping over come the fears and habitual corner skulking behaviour. Building up positive associations to desirable activities and a healthy pup likes activity not being passive and avoiding interactions with the world.
> 
> ...


I watched programme.excellent for first time dog owners......:thumbup1:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

labcolliemom said:


> she ignores chicken, liver, and peanut butter when in her corner, so any other non-traditional suggestions are welcome


That's an indication of a stressed, non-confident dog when she's lost interest in food whilst skulking in corner, but finds Chicken, Liver & Peanut butter delicious when she's more comfortable and confident in other spots.

It takes in general 2-3 weeks for a dog to settle in a home and unfortunately likely longer. There's a film I found on one of the UK BC rescue sites, showing a nervous country dog that had lived isolated for a while from people, being made to feel secure, it involved calm restful spot and the handler napping with it to gain the dogs confidence. The new surrounding were thus less over-whelming and it was able to adjust and fit in aftrer a while. May be you need to lounge in a den?


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## labcolliemom (Mar 9, 2011)

Hello all! Just wanted to give any of you who are still checking this thread an updated on our dear puppy Gloria. We are delighted with how she continues to develop confidence - our pup now runs a circuit around our entire first floor, and comes to each of us for a rubdown, with tail wagging furiously. She goes to the door when she needs to go, eats and drinks on her own, and now is easily tempted with all her goodies (to include cheese!) My husband recently visited the house for the weekend and the new experience was good for her, she adapted pretty well, and is back to being our affectionate bundle of joy. We are building up her confidence outdoors by patiently leading her out and just sitting with her outside for long periods of time until she relaxes and starts exploring on her own. Lesson learned - it is essential to let a puppy be during those first scary weeks, but don't be afraid to adjust their comfort zones and take the reins when the time is right! our puppy loves to be led!  Thanks for the lively discussion, I wish you all the best.


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