# Pomeranians ears go back when greeting



## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

Hi Guys, 

Just a quick question. I have a 4 month female pom puppy and upon greeting everyone (including myself) her ears will go back. I was always taught this was a sign of fear, but she moves towards us, tail wagging and is clearly excited to see us. 

I took her to training class and the trainer again stated that it was fear, however she is a confident happy little dog. My instinct tells me that it is more submission and that perhaps she is just particularly expressive with her ears. 

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Think it does sound like appeasement gesture, tail wagging does not necessarily indicate happiness, 
that can be horribly misleading, one dog I see that looks superficially friendly, goes whale eyed and snaps, giving only a second or so to notice. Should be a crime to punish dogs for growling, it's dangerous to the unwary!

Is your pom's ears anything like - Body Language Diagrams
May be the 2nd? Or more like the stressed dogs at the bottom?

There's not much point in getting into debate like discussions with trainer leading a class, there's too much pressure to get on with things.


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Think it does sound like appeasement gesture, tail wagging does not necessarily indicate happiness,
> that can be horribly misleading, one dog I see that looks superficially friendly, goes whale eyed and snaps, giving only a second or so to notice. Should be a crime to punish dogs for growling, it's dangerous to the unwary!
> 
> Is your pom's ears anything like - Body Language Diagrams
> ...


Hello

Thanks for getting back to me on this! I would say that it was appeasement rather than aggression or fear. She does it a lot, just now she jumped up at my knee on the sofa to sniff my hand and her ears went back again as she bounced around. It seems it's more upon approaching and excitement when it happens.

It's a hard thing to read but I suppose it's just getting to know my dog and understand that she is quite expressive with her ears. I just would hate to think she was stressed out and I was ignoring the signs! That said we aren't doing anything to scare her and she is quite an outgoing happy little thing.


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## Daggre (May 2, 2010)

I know lots of dogs like this, Star included, when she's happy and playing her ears go waaay back, I think it's a sign of contentment really.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lady3131 said:


> ...[my] 4-MO F Pom-puppy [when] greeting everyone... her ears... go back.
> I was... taught this [signals] fear, but she [approaches] wagging and is clearly excited to see us.
> 
> ...the trainer [in pup-class] stated that it was fear, however she is a confident happy little dog. My instinct tells me that it is more submission and that perhaps she is just particularly expressive with her ears.


when she greets complete strangers [friendly, not scary people], does her tail go down? 
does her HEAD drop with her ears, or ears-only? along with wagging, does she LICK rapidly + excessively?

BODY experiment: 
i am being quite literal here, so some ppl will not be able to do a few of these - just try anyway, 
the *emotional affect* is more important than getting every detail muscularly correct.

* smile - while thinking of something happy, NOT a fake grimace: 
it should include a softening of the eyes + relaxed body-tension. 
how does that feel?

* move Ur own ears back - 
yes, U have muscles there - if U put the very tips of fingers lightly behind each ear, at the highest point of the outer-rim, 
where skin meets hairline, U can feel them twitch under the skin. 
popping Ur brows up in an expression of startlement will often move the ears back in sympathy. *how does that feel? *

* move Ur ears back and lean forward, smiling, as if to cheek-kiss a new arrival - *how does that feel? *

* grit Ur teeth and draw Ur lip-corners straight out, to expose all teeth and gums as widely as possible - 
*how does that feel?* the brows will likely feel tense and the face tight - physically, it's a sensation of tension. 
now- ADD lifting the brows and open the eyes. *how does that feel?*
that's a chimp fear-grimace, often mistaken by humans for 'smiling' - 
*which it most definitely is not.*

* draw Ur lips down and back, Ur ears back, make Ur eyes big, and pull Ur chin in towards Ur spine - *how does that feel?* 
that's a fear posture, and the sense of withdrawal and avoidance should be obvious.

if she approaches strangers willingly, does NOT tuck her tail under her belly, only drops it a bit lower, and keeps her head up only FLASHING her ears back - its a micro-expression of her emotional rush, she's excited.

if she FLATTENS her ears + *they stay down / back as she greets* them, again with her own forward momentum --- not freezing, sinking submissively, or crouching in a sit with head-down, but WALKING within touching distance - 
she's appeasing but thrilled to meet them. 
appeasing is very common in pups; the classic roll-over-and-wee is active appeasement. 
she may or may not outgrow it, but i think it is a sweet expression and not a worry.

if she is exceptionally licky - that is anxiety; 
try DAP pump-spray or Rescue-Remedy liquid By Mouth [not in water] - or use both!  very, very safe...
see 
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much... 
for What to give, When, How...

IF she actually belly-tucks her tail, or drops her tail + tucks her rump, or lowers her back-skull level with her shoulders... 
THAT is some serious fear, and needs B-mod just ASAP.

hopefully she is just a happy, perfectly normal puppy! :thumbup: 
congratulations, 
- terry


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

"if she is exceptionally licky - that is anxiety"

My puppy is like that, but only when he greets people that he really likes and knows and wouldn't do that to a stranger. I thought it was a sign of affection?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Jobeth said:


> My puppy is [exceptionally licky] only when he greets people that he really likes
> and knows and wouldn't do that to a stranger. I thought it was a sign of affection?


'exceptionally' means a very persistent behavior - not 2 or 3 licks, 20 or 30 rapid-fire licks, OR short flurries of 3 to a dozen licks with relative calm between. this is nervous appeasement - 
*over-excitement* also manifests as very-licky behavior in an attempt to self-soothe.

* do these 'dear friends' wrestle, grab, squeeze, hug, 
pet him in a rapid, tentative manner, or otherwise wind-up the puppy? 
*calming touch* is slow-paced, rhythmic, firm and supportive; 
*anxiety producing touch* is fast, intrusive, tentative, OR erratic - or all of the above. 

to calm a puppy, use the WHOLE hand to stroke, make them firm + uninterrupted, and smooth with ==> the lay of the hair.

to jazz-up a pup or dog, make it FAST, scrubby scratching motions, snatch the hands away + re-apply them.

cheers, 
- terry


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

(Sorry don't want to hijack thread, but was concerned about puppy) 
He does it when they pick him up to say hello, then after that initial greeting stops.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Jobeth said:


> He does it when they pick him up to say hello, then after that initial greeting stops.


then i would ask them to please Not pick him up - 
it's too intrusive, squat or bend to him, or--- put him behind U out of reach ---- 
OR *Last resort!* U pick him up, instead. 

puppies need to learn about the world on all-4s, not held in human arms - 
BUT _if the person will not listen and insists on picking him up,_ pre-empt them, 
pick him up Urself + hold him snug against Ur body, very supportively, with a spread palm under his forechest 
between his forelegs - *then... * let the person hold a hand under his chin to be sniffed, rub his chest, stroke his chin, etc.

the part U want to avoid? *reaching over his head - * which is very intimidating + extra-intrusive.

happy B-Mod [with the humans  ] 
- terry


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks Leashedforlife!! That was really helpful!

Her tail is wagging like a propeller when it happens and her head will sometimes bow low upon greeting but everything about her body and stance screams "I am soo excited I may just pop!" 

She will do it upon meeting most people and especially when we return home or even if we have been upstairs and return after two minutes! It's strange as she's not so interested in other dogs so when she greets them the ear thing doesn't happen. It's just with people as she is very people centred.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Lady3131 said:


> Thanks for getting back to me on this! I would say that it was appeasement rather than aggression or fear. She does it a lot, just now she jumped up at my knee on the sofa to sniff my hand and her ears went back again as she bounced around. It seems it's more upon approaching and excitement when it happens.
> 
> It's a hard thing to read but I suppose it's just getting to know my dog and understand that she is quite expressive with her ears. I just would hate to think she was stressed out and I was ignoring the signs! That said we aren't doing anything to scare her and she is quite an outgoing happy little thing.


Welcome! I paid special attention to the 2 BC pups in our care this morning, where their ears were, now the foster is showing signs of anxious behaviour, but the host pup is a laid back guy and friendly dog, who socialises and is well liked by people around.

The greeting I got was excited rush very young puppy like, wiggly, ears folded back in streamlined way. Part of the excitement is anticipation of morning walk in woods, as well as seeing me.

What I did notice that was different about the stressed out lady foster pup was her lip licking gestures after we set off. I also noticed my host pup giving her some calming signals at times in the woods, when she was acting manic. I had got her calmed at one point enough to do some clicker training, about 10 yards away from a Shetland sheepdog, and she calmed considerably, but closer approach was leading to anxiety and then 2 Weimaraner's showed up barking and lunging at the Sheltie (fortunately today held on leash).

It is true that the ears often go back when a dog is afraid & tense, but like with tail wagging you have to look at other signs to have the context to interpret the meaning. It's all rather interesting, and makes dog walking more fascinating when you are on the look out for gestures and body language.

Very often dog walkers are not aware of how their dog is feeling, because they cannot see. Dog is walks & sits out of front, so they don't see the mouth properly.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Thanks as well. I pick him up when they come, but he wriggles in my arms as he is desperate to get to them and then I pass him over and he then licks them. Is this the wrong thing to do?


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Havent read all the replies (at work so trying to be quick lol) but my basenji does this, everytime she greets me she has her ears back and tail wagging like mad. She is most certainly not fearful as she is bounding around and jumping up at me yodelling!  I think with her its just a sign of excitement. She greets other people she knows in this way also, but is not quite so outgoing with strangers so tends to be more reserved.


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