# Omg grr so angry!



## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

OMG i am so flaming angry!! Just had Bentley on the park off leash ( hes friendly with other dogs and people and comes when called ) and he went toddling over to an oldish man walking with a stick and a small child ...THE MAN RAISED HIS STICK POINTING IT AT BENTLEY HITTING OUT TOWARDS HIM WITH IT AND HIT HIM IN HIS EYE WITH THE END OF THE STICK!! as u can imagine i went berserk! Bentley bless him ran over to me squinting 1 eye looking quite shook up so i put him on his lead and marched over to the man now ranting and raving at me to get my dog under control and that i shouldnt even hav a dog like that!! OMG  i calmly replied a dog like wat ? he said one of them pit bulls! get it away from my grandaughter! im reporting u! i was like wtf lol??? i told him bentley was a pedigree kc reg STAFFORDSHIRE BULL not a pit at all and had a right go at him for poking bentley in the eye with the stick all the man had to say was yes n if it comes near me again itl get more than that it wants shooting the nasty b word I am soo upset peeps :nonod::cursing::confused5:!????


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

It is this simple: do not allow your dog to approach people or other dogs without asking first.

ANY dog but especially those portrayed by the media as devil dogs can only interact if both parties are happy too im afraid.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Probably a rude nasty man but was I suppose in his eyes protecting his grandaughter. 

You on the other hand are responsbile for protecting your dog so if you hadn't let it approach some one it wouldn't have happened. 

If I see people with children and/or without I dog I always put my dog on lead - accepting that not everyone is as enamoured with my dog as I am and even realise that not everyone likes any dog at all what ever type.

I also put my dog on lead if my neices children visit - they are small, my dog is big and could easily knock them off their feet


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

There is no condoning the mans actions, but maybe you should have your dog under better control, and not let it wander up to random people.

Not everyone likes dogs, many people are fearful of them, and fewer still like SBT's.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

I have to say I agree with the above posters. He should not have hit your dog but similarly your dog shouldn't be wandering up to people. Lots of people are afraid of dogs and we all need to share public places. Unfortunately as a dog owner the responsibility falls on you to keep your dog from bothering other members of the public - even if how they react is completely irrational.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

thanks everyone for your comments but the park is a 'dog park' and is sign posted as such so people shud b aware that there will obviously be dogs off leash there,, also i was following bentley and he walked over to the man didnt run showed no signs of agression if anything he was acting silly and fussy tail wagging etc ... maybe if the man and his grandaughter are afraid of or dislike dogs then they shouldnt walk thru a dog park.. and as for devil dogs wats all that about?? the media realy frustrates me! ... i see where ur al coming from with this but at the end of the day he had no right to hit my dog if bentley had been bearin teeth and growling/barking fair enough he simply ran over for a fuss 10 feet from me if that i smiled at the old man and he still carried off like that its pathetic! his grandchild didnt look bothered at all that was wat made me laugh!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> and as for devil dogs wats all that about??


Like I said they are portrayed by the media as devil dogs, that is exactly what it is about


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Why do you think it is acceptable for your darling Bentley to 'toddle' over to an older gentleman with a walking aid and young child  ? ?

You love your dog - not everyone does. Not every one goes tot he park to exercise dogs and want a nice quiet wander around.

If you are so keen on improving / repairing the reputation of SBT's then you should become a more responsible owner yourself and have more control of your dog when off lead. 

Sorry I hope Bentley is ok BUT it is your own fault.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> thanks everyone for your comments but the park is a 'dog park' and is sign posted as such so people shud b aware that there will obviously be dogs off leash there,, also i was following bentley and he walked over to the man didnt run showed no signs of agression if anything he was acting silly and fussy tail wagging etc ... maybe if the man and his grandaughter are afraid of or dislike dogs then they shouldnt walk thru a dog park.. and as for devil dogs wats all that about??


I often to go to a country park where lots of people walk their dogs - there are signs up about picking up after your dogs, where they can & can't be off lead so yes non-dog owners will have a good idea there are dogs there.

That does not change the fact its polite/responsible to put on leash and NOT to let your dog approach people whether they have a dog or not.

I do not believe we have specific dog walking parks in the UK so presume you were in a park where you can walk your dog that does not mean non-dog people are excluded.

But if you feel you are in the right, carry on but be warned next time your dog could have more than a poke in the eye from someone


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

While to a certain degree I do agree with the posters saying your dog shouldn't have approached the man in the first place, dogs are not 100% obedient 100% of the time, they're animals after all and sometimes have a mind of their own. However, the man's reaction was bordering on ridiculous and completely, way OTT  I'd be beyond angry if someone raised a stick or anything else to my dog without any good reason and I'm afraid my inner fishwife would have come out and he'd have then been picking up the pieces of that stick while listening to a few choice words from me. Even worse the fact that it was a DOG park FFS, did he not think he might encounter the odd er..... dog??


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

at the end of the day the old gent should have realised dogs wether it be as u say my 'darling' bentley lol whats with the sarcasm i take it u r not a SBT fan? or a chihuhua its a dog park and dogs aslong as they are friendly have every right to be off leash bentley was in control he was less than 10 feet away from me and by the time hed reached the old fella i didnt hav chance to call him back before the stick had been raised i was stunned tbh! if he doesnt like dogs he shud avoid dog parks _COMMON SENSE_ ...


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Was it a specific dog park? IE, securely fenced area, or a public park where dogs are permitted off lead?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> thanks everyone for your comments but the park is a 'dog park' and is sign posted as such so people shud b aware that there will obviously be dogs off leash there,, also i was following bentley and he walked over to the man didnt run showed no signs of agression if anything he was acting silly and fussy tail wagging etc ... maybe if the man and his grandaughter are afraid of or dislike dogs then they shouldnt walk thru a dog park.. and as for devil dogs wats all that about?? the media realy frustrates me! ... i see where ur al coming from with this but at the end of the day he had no right to hit my dog if bentley had been bearin teeth and growling/barking fair enough he simply ran over for a fuss 10 feet from me if that i smiled at the old man and he still carried off like that its pathetic! his grandchild didnt look bothered at all that was wat made me laugh!


Had you been in an ordinary park, I would be agreeing with other posters. As it is though, if the place is signposted as a designated dog playing field, he should not have been there with his child unless he was prepared for dogs running over. I imagine if it were one of mine, instead of one of those "devil dogs" he would have allowed his child to fuss them without even bothering to ask.



DoodlesRule said:


> I often to go to a country park where lots of people walk their dogs - there are signs up about picking up after your dogs, where they can & can't be off lead so yes non-dog owners will have a good idea there are dogs there.
> 
> That does not change the fact its polite/responsible to put on leash and NOT to let your dog approach people whether they have a dog or not.
> 
> ...


Yes, we do. There is one I take mine to regularly, clearly marked "offlead dog play area". If someone came through there, dogfree, and complained about the dogs I would tell them to go elsewhere.

I have to say though, judging by the OP's previous posts, she is a bit paranoid about people having a go at her dog because it is a staffie. Certainly no one on here could care less what breed it is, but you have to accept that people are like sheep and believe everything they read. That is their loss.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

yes at both the entrances to the park it is sign posted 'Dog park beware of dogs running loose' or something along them lines with a pic of the outline of a dog it is fenced off with a gate at each entrance ... .. and i agree that the mans reaction was purely because bentley was a SBT but at the end of the day this isnt my problem he shudnt have walked thru a dog park as SBT are a common breed there one of the oldest breeds... so no IT ISNT my fault at all


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> at the end of the day the old gent should have realised dogs wether it be as u say my 'darling' bentley lol whats with the sarcasm i take it u r not a SBT fan? or a chihuhua its a dog park and dogs aslong as they are friendly have every right to be off leash bentley was in control he was less than 10 feet away from me and by the time hed reached the old fella i didnt hav chance to call him back before the stick had been raised i was stunned tbh! if he doesnt like dogs he shud avoid dog parks _COMMON SENSE_ ...


I think this response was aimed at me:

Oh dear so a little sarcasim and now I hate the breed oh dear. :nonod: Maybe you should read some threads and get to know people before throwing silly comments around.

I said Darling Bentley as although he is dear to you you need to realise he isnt to everyone espcially not the old gentleman, with a walking aid walking with a young child! :nonod:

I would NEVER EVER let my girl approach anybody with a young child - She isnt dangerous around them BUT I wouldnt want her at risk like your Bentley was today.

Just because its a dog park /walking area doesnt mean no one else can go there - Even if someone else was in there they may eb visiting or not be aware they have wandered into a dog 'zone'. A bit of common sense from both sides maybe?

I can tell from your username you feel strongly about the SBT breed - maybe you should reconsider before you let your dog wander off to greet other people? whether in a dog park or not, whether they have dogs or not. Its always safest to greet people talk to them, to know there dog is a suitable play friend or to understand if the children want to greet your dog? - Then you would have known if the gentleman would of appreciated Bentleys company rather than sending Bentley in to find out for himself.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I have to say though, judging by the OP's previous posts, she is a bit paranoid about people having a go at her dog because it is a staffie. Certainly no one on here could care less what breed it is, but you have to accept that people are like sheep and believe everything they read. That is their loss.


Deleted due to misunderstanding the post.


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

In the current dog-attack emotional climate owners of all dogs but most particularly those that resemble a Pit Bull type dog in the eyes of the non-dog owning general public *need* to act as good ambassadors.

Regardless of the dog's colour or how *vehemently you protest* it's a Norfolk Large Pawed Panting Dog in the eyes of a protective adult it's a threat to the child under their care.

From what the OP has written I think they were in the wrong in that situation and they forget that a *non-dog owning person can not distinguish* between a happy waging tailed dog looking for play and a charging rabid werewolf, in their eyes it is the same thing.

The damage in this case has been done, the dog is bruised but I would worry more that a fear connection has been made with men with sticks and children.

There might be an Old-Man's forum somewhere, this afternoon a man has posted a thread about the increasing danger of out of control wild dogs in his area and that he had to fight one off today with a stick to *protect his granddaughter from attack*.

I would suggest that you seek out calm children to socialise your dog with, it will be good for all parties.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> yes at both the entrances to the park it is sign posted 'Dog park beware of dogs running loose' or something along them lines with a pic of the outline of a dog it is fenced off with a gate at each entrance ... .. and i agree that the mans reaction was purely because bentley was a SBT but at the end of the day this isnt my problem he shudnt have walked thru a dog park as SBT are a common breed there one of the oldest breeds... so no IT ISNT my fault at all


That's completely different then. In that case the guy was an absolute idiot - why walk there if you have a problem with dogs?


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Sorry, dog park or not I still wouldn't let my dog approach strangers. Yes, his reaction was ridiculous and out of order but if your dog ( regardless of breed) walked over surely there was time to read the guys body language and recall Bentley sharpish. Unless of course the old man was a ninja with a walking stick.

For me it's like driving you might be in the right lane doing the right thing, but you still have to guard yousrelf, and those you are responsible for, from the numpties around you.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> yes at both the entrances to the park it is sign posted 'Dog park beware of dogs running loose' or something along them lines with a pic of the outline of a dog it is fenced off with a gate at each entrance ... .. and i agree that the mans reaction was purely because bentley was a SBT but at the end of the day this isnt my problem he shudnt have walked thru a dog park as SBT are a common breed there one of the oldest breeds... so no IT ISNT my fault at all


Ok then its not your fault at all you were in complete control and close enough to stop your dog approaching people.

Think of a different scenario - you are in a restaurant clearly signed that well behaved children are welcome so there you are in your finest having a meal. Someones well behaved darling approaches your table and puts its chocolate covered hands on you. Thats not the parents fault at all, its 100% your fault for going somewhere children are permitted - just because your idea of a well behaved child & yours differ makes no difference, its your fault for going


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> yes at both the entrances to the park it is sign posted 'Dog park beware of dogs running loose' or something along them lines with a pic of the outline of a dog it is fenced off with a gate at each entrance ... .. and i agree that the mans reaction was purely because bentley was a SBT but at the end of the day this isnt my problem he shudnt have walked thru a dog park as SBT are a common breed there one of the oldest breeds... so no IT ISNT my fault at all


I doubt he even noticed the sign, silly old fool, and thought as he was an almighty human he had more rights. There was no need to strike your dog, I would have asked the police to charge him with threatening behaviour, because that is what it was.

I take mine to the dog playing field, fenced in and designated for off lead dogs, because they are not very good with dogs on leads. A few weeks ago this bloke comes walking all round the field with a beautiful blue staffie which he kept on a lead. That wasn't too bad until the idiot brought it right into the middle of where all the dogs were playing. Mine got interested, of course, staffie felt threatened and snarled at them, I got them away but then I heard him muttering about how mine should be on a lead. I let rip then, I'm afraid, told him the field was for off lead dogs and he should not be in there. there are loads of on lead walks around, and I don't know why the dog was on a lead at all. He was friendly enough and couldn't go anywhere.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

L/C said:


> That's not really fair - the majority of people posted before the OP said anything about a dog park, based on the original post what they said was perfectly correct.


I was not talking about the posts on this thread, actually, but previous posts by this member. Until she said it was a dog park, I agreed with everyone else. She posted one thread asking what our reactions would be if she walked up to us with her staffie. It went on for eight pages, but she never came back to tell us why she had asked, perhaps because nobody cared what the breed was and said so.


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## vickieb (Nov 22, 2010)

I have been shouted at before because Ern went over to a guy with his kiddie, the guy picked his kiddie up and ern thought it was a game and jumped up! 

the guy went mental..... which was totally fair doos, totally my fault.....  a case of me thinking he would leave them as he had NEVER bothered anyone before... 

some other dog walkers said to me... tsssss stupid man! shouldnt come here if he dosent want dogs near him..... but I had to disagree..... It was me at fault..... not him or the dog.... plain and simple ...me. 

I think the general rule is your dog should never go to someone that you dont know, even in a dog park..... 

but I understand you are annoyed about the hitting. Hope he is not too hurt


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I was not talking about the posts on this thread, actually, but previous posts by this member. Until she said it was a dog park, I agreed with everyone else. She posted one thread asking what our reactions would be if she walked up to us with her staffie. It went on for eight pages, but she never came back to tell us why she had asked, perhaps because nobody cared what the breed was and said so.


My apologies - I misunderstood.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

How cute is Ernie!!

I do agree. Only just today I met a man whom I had exchanged, shall we say, very heated words with about a misinterpretation of behaviour of my dog- namely trying to jump up on him... he was on lead, incidently.

It is my fault tho as It is my responsibility to teach my dog manners and safety in situations.

Anyway at the time things got heated- I met him today and we stood and chatted for about 10 minutes, both rather red faced about the incident. Emotions run high when out and about. If you see the man again perhaps discussing that you understand where he is coming from but you have a solid recall with your dog. Perhaps also have yours in a sit and maybe help him out. He's clearly just afraid/protective. Getting through to people and a wee bit of education always helps. 

I think seeing as the incident is done and the dog is not too badly shaken/hurt best thing to do is learn from this and try to avoid similar situations, regardless of location.


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Wtf? This angers me. why would you hit a dog with a stick for doing what, nothing? Whatever happened to "excuse me call your dog please" ? Idiot man.

Ive come across many people afraid of dogs but not one has hit mine thank god. Oh the idiocity of some people


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

L/C said:


> My apologies - I misunderstood.


No problem. I think in this case the man was in the wrong to be in a dog park with his child. I have to be very careful with mine, especially Ferdie. He loves children, but I cannot let him go running up to every child he sees as he could terrify them. But, if there are children in the dog park, I expect them to like dogs. I still don't let him go running up to them, but I think I am entitled to expect that he would not frighten them to death. Most people who come into our dog park have a dog with them as well as children, and they go there especially so their dogs can play.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

I would have been fuming; if the guy has a fear of dogs then what the hell was he doing in a dog park with a child? 

If it wasn't a dog specific park then yes, you shouldn't let your dog approach someone but if it was in a park for dogs then I would assume anyone in there was happy to be around/be approached by dogs.

And even if it wasn't in a dog park, whilst it's the owner's responsibility to ensure the dog doesn't approach anyone uninvited it still doesn't excuse the man's behaviour. It's a reaction like that that could trigger a dog attack; and yes the responsibilty untimately would lie with the owner but perhaps if the non-dog owning general public knew a little bit more about how to behave around a dog then they would be able to protect themselves from a dog with an irresponisble owner if the need should arise. In the same way that you teach a child to look before crossing the road. If a child walks into a road without looking and is run over by an irresponsible, speeding driver, it's the driver's fault but it doesn't mean the accident couldn't have been avoided if the child looked before crossing.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

As it appears to have happened in a designated dog park (have to say, I know they exist but I've no idea where any are near me) he has behaved very inappropriately, I'm not surprised you are upset


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> I would have been fuming; if the guy has a fear of dogs then what the hell was he doing in a dog park with a child?
> 
> If it wasn't a dog specific park then yes, you shouldn't let your dog approach someone but if it was in a park for dogs then I would assume anyone in there was happy to be around/be approached by dogs.
> 
> And even if it wasn't in a dog park, whilst it's the owner's responsibility to ensure the dog doesn't approach anyone uninvited it still doesn't excuse the man's behaviour. It's a reaction like that that could trigger a dog attack; and yes the responsibilty untimately would lie with the owner but perhaps if the non-dog owning general public knew a little bit more about how to behave around a dog then they would be able to protect themselves from a dog with an irresponisble owner if the need should arise. In the same way that you teach a child to look before crossing the road. If a child walks into a road without looking and is run over by an irresponsible, speeding driver, it's the driver's fault but it doesn't mean the accident couldn't have been avoided if the child looked before crossing.


Or even responsible drivers. I once hit a little girl who ran out from behind a bus straight in front of the car. She didn't look at all and I was level with the front of the bus when she darted out. Luckily for her, I could see children getting off the bus and coming round the back, so I was only doing 10 mph.



simplysardonic said:


> As it appears to have happened in a designated dog park (have to say, I know they exist but I've no idea where any are near me) he has behaved very inappropriately, I'm not surprised you are upset


I don't know where you live, but if you are going to Koda's birthday party, that is the dog park that I use.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

This might be unpopular...but I have to say...

I don't think it matters where this happened - dog park, beach, normal park, the street...If you have an offlead dog they should be under your control and you should ask them to wait before they approach any dog or human. Even dog parks that allow offlead play/walking have 'your dog must be under control' signs.

I agree, the man shouldn't have hit your dog. 100%. And I hope theres no lasting damage, physically or mentally. I really do. 

But at the end of the day, this wouldn't have happened if you were in the habit of asking your dog to wait whilst you ask whether its ok to approach.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't know where you live, but if you are going to Koda's birthday party, that is the dog park that I use.


I'm in Norfolk


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Helbo said:


> But at the end of the day, this wouldn't have happened if you were in the habit of asking your dog to wait whilst you ask whether its ok to approach.


 I do agree Helbo...

My medium to large staffy x rescue adolescent is coming on.. any top tips on training for this?


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## purrr (Feb 5, 2012)

i think to be fair both was in the wrong, the old bloke shouldn't have acted that way but then he DOESN'T know your dog he DOESN'T know that your dog was friendly, 
but then you shouldn't in any case no matter where you are let your dog walk up to people you don't know or they don't know, it might have been a dog park with dogs running free but its called manners when you want to walk past someone in a shop you use manners and you are ment to teach a dog the same, yeah they cant go up to someone and say am ok i wont hurt you thats your job and the only way you can do that is with you dog on a lead


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## BexyBoo (Jan 31, 2012)

Aww sorry your doggy got poked in the eye thats not nice at all

But on the other hand i must say that i wont have any dogs i dont know running up to my children! i would stop the dog an guard my child untill i knew if the dog was friendly or not. maybe thats all he was trying to do but with being old with a walking stick im guessing his movements were limited?

I know alot of people are scared of dogs let alone having one running up to their child/grandchild? maybe you should keep him on a lead when around children? that isnt ment offend anyone at all. im just saying no respectful parent would have a unknown dog run up to their child , the same as they wouldnt have their child run up to an unknown dog. 
As a parent you dont know what the owners of the dogs have brought them up like :blush: 

Becky xx


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Whoever's right and wrong if the dog was under a bit more control there might have been chance to convert 2 anti Staffy members of the public


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> at the end of the day the old gent should have realised dogs wether it be as u say my 'darling' bentley lol whats with the sarcasm i take it u r not a SBT fan? or a chihuhua its a dog park and dogs aslong as they are friendly have every right to be off leash


Well, I have Chihuahuas and I never let them go up to children in dog walking areas (no special dog parks here, but well known routes) if they dont have a dog with them. You never know if the person has read any signs, realiesed they are in a dog friendly area or how they will react. They might have a phobia or have been bitten in the past, and I think people are as scared of being bitten by a tiny dog as a 'devil dog'!! (they just worry less about the consequences if the dog is teeny!!LOL).
But the old man could of said something, not attacked your dog.If someone hit my dogs then the last thing they should worry about would be the dogs...it would be the rabid bitch standing in front of them!! (I also have no patience for some older people, like the old man who informed me riding my bike on the pavement was wrong some years agoby jamming his walking stick in my spokes and sending me somersaulting into oncoming traffic!!)


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Julesky said:


> I do agree Helbo...
> 
> My medium to large staffy x rescue adolescent is coming on.. any top tips on training for this?


HI all... sorry about this post. Just joined so didn't realise this was 'hi-jacking' until i got sent a message by another user!

No offence intended. Woops.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm in Norfolk


That's a bit far to come on a regular basis. Shame. We go always on Sundays as it's only 20 minutes and it is the only place I can let Diva off lead.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> I think this response was aimed at me:
> 
> Oh dear so a little sarcasim and now I hate the breed oh dear. :nonod: Maybe you should read some threads and get to know people before throwing silly comments around.
> 
> ...


first of all the darling bentley comment came acros as tho u were makin out i cud see no wrong in my perfect dog i apologise for takin this the wrong way but i canot understand y u feel so strongly that i was at fault for allowin my dog to run off leash in a dog park , usualy people in dog parks are dog owners and actually like dogs why if u dislike or r frightened of dogs u feel the need to come into a dog park that is clearly sign posted with a small child i do not quite get? .... and Bentley was 10 feet ahead of me he had reached the gent before i had chance to do anything about it as the gent appeared thru the gate of the dog park as we were heading towards it... i didnt have time to stop bentley my point is that bentley was friendly showed no sign of agresion towards the gent or the child so therefore hitin him with a stick in the face was totaly uncalled for!! i appreciate ur opinion and i dont no u and u dont no me but pls dont make me out to be an irresponsible dog owner when i am clearly not its not like i was in a public park where children play with my dog off the lead it is a field especialy designed to alow dog owners to let there dogs run free in safety , there own safety as wel as that of the general public  ...


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

It's still a park! You shouldn't allow your dog to go up to people! You're responsible for dog. Just cos it's a dog park it doesn't mean it's ok to have dogs coming up to you. You may be able to read dogs body language and be confident that it won't bite but it doesn't mean the man does. You wouldn't have got a nice reaction from me if you'd let your dog come up to me and my dog off lead! I don't allow any dogs off lead to greet mine!


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I was not talking about the posts on this thread, actually, but previous posts by this member. Until she said it was a dog park, I agreed with everyone else. She posted one thread asking what our reactions would be if she walked up to us with her staffie. It went on for eight pages, but she never came back to tell us why she had asked, perhaps because nobody cared what the breed was and said so.


i would like to defend myself here ,,, i am new to this site and didnt think the thread had posted as i couldnt find it on new posts i stil dont no how to use this site so give me a break << and that thread askin how ppl wud react was curiosity as people seem to cross over the road with there dog when they see i have a staff and i find it upsetting as bentleys so soft!


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> It's still a park! You shouldn't allow your dog to go up to people! You're responsible for dog. Just cos it's a dog park it doesn't mean it's ok to have dogs coming up to you. You may be able to read dogs body language and be confident that it won't bite but it doesn't mean the man does. You wouldn't have got a nice reaction from me if you'd let your dog come up to me and my dog off lead! I don't allow any dogs off lead to greet mine!


at the end of the day its a dog park and it clearly states dogs are loose on sign by the gate the gent entered through just as we were 10 feet away from and headin to as we were leaving the park bentley usualy waits at the gate for me and i put his lead on before exiting...i no the majority of the dog park owners and there dogs as ive been using it for over 2 yrs everyday twice a day.. the old gent ive never seen before struck my dog with a stick before givin me the chance to call bentley


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> << and that thread askin how ppl wud react was curiosity as people seem to cross over the road with there dog when they see i have a staff and i find it upsetting as bentleys so soft!


You cant assume people are avoiding you because of your dog being a Staffie though. The majority of people who are walking a dog like dogs!!, including Staffies...
However alot of dogs (my own included) dont react well when on lead. Doesnt mean they automatically hate Staffie!!


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

To be honest if someone came to the dog park here where you HAVE to walk thru two gates to get in, if they freaked out because of the dogs to me thats there own fault not the dog owners, Its a dog park!


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> To be honest if someone came to the dog park here where you HAVE to walk thru two gates to get in, if they freaked out because of the dogs to me thats there own fault not the dog owners, Its a dog park!


thanks im glad someone sees my argument startin to feel slightly ganged up on so to speak lol


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> at the end of the day the old gent should have realised dogs wether it be as u say my 'darling' bentley lol whats with the sarcasm i take it u r not a SBT fan? or a chihuhua its a dog park and dogs aslong as they are friendly have every right to be off leash bentley was in control he was less than 10 feet away from me and by the time hed reached the old fella i didnt hav chance to call him back before the stick had been raised i was stunned tbh! if he doesnt like dogs he shud avoid dog parks _COMMON SENSE_ ...


Its immaterial whether your dog is friendly or not , the fact is you didnt have control over your dog and thats why your dog was hit by the old man 
and just because its a dog park doesnt mean that people without a dog have no right to be there ?

It seems to me these days that dogs are liked less and less by some people , purely because of the media , but the fact remains that as responsible owners , it is up to us to set a good example of dog ownership

The sensible thing to do , and what I always do , is when I see someone coming toward me I leash my dogs , that way no-one can accuse them of anything or harm them as they are firmly by my side , under full control.

It doesnt matter whether you own border collies (like me) SBT's or the teeniest yorkie on the planet , having your dog under control around strangers is not only a courtesy to them , but ensures safety for your dog and peace of mind for yourself


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Mese said:


> Its immaterial whether your dog is friendly or not , the fact is you didnt have control over your dog and thats why your dog was hit by the old man
> and just because its a dog park doesnt mean that people without a dog have no right to be there ?
> 
> It seems to me these days that dogs are liked less and less by some people , purely because of the media , but the fact remains that as responsible owners , it is up to us to set a good example of dog ownership
> ...


i fully understand the point u r trying to make but my argument is the old man didnt give me chance to call bentley before he struck him the old man walked thru the gate as bentley had neared it waiting for me to leash him as he usualy does before we exit thru the gate and so i didnt have time to do anything or say anything or recal bentley..


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> It's still a park! You shouldn't allow your dog to go up to people! You're responsible for dog. Just cos it's a dog park it doesn't mean it's ok to have dogs coming up to you. You may be able to read dogs body language and be confident that it won't bite but it doesn't mean the man does. You wouldn't have got a nice reaction from me if you'd let your dog come up to me and my dog off lead! I don't allow any dogs off lead to greet mine!


So do you think it's acceptable for this man (I certainly wouldn't be calling him a gent as the generous OP is) to actually hit the dog? For just being in the same area as him? You don't "allow" dogs off lead to greet yours? What do you do in these situations then, just out of interest?

Before anyone jumps on me here, I am NOT saying it's okay for dogs to approach other dogs and people willy-nilly, of course it's not. But sometimes these things happen, sometimes your dog doesn't come back immediately, sometimes you don't see quickly enough. It doesn't justify what this man did though. Punishment hardly fitting the crime in my opinion. A simple "please call your dog, I'm scared/don't like them" or whatever would have done the job surely?


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Coffee said:


> So do you think it's acceptable for this man (I certainly wouldn't be calling him a gent as the generous OP is) to actually hit the dog? For just being in the same area as him? You don't "allow" dogs off lead to greet yours? What do you do in these situations then, just out of interest?
> 
> Before anyone jumps on me here, I am NOT saying it's okay for dogs to approach other dogs and people willy-nilly, of course it's not. But sometimes these things happen, sometimes your dog doesn't come back immediately, sometimes you don't see quickly enough. It doesn't justify what this man did though. Punishment hardly fitting the crime in my opinion. A simple "please call your dog, I'm scared/don't like them" or whatever would have done the job surely?


Thankyou! my point exactly!


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

A park for dogs only? Really never heard of that. Who would pay for the up keep of a park for only dogs ? Surely not the council as its not exactly social inclusion!
Are you sure the old man did not just panic and wave his stick about, accidentally hitting your dog? Is your dog injured?


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> i fully understand the point u r trying to make but my argument is the old man didnt give me chance to call bentley before he struck him the old man walked thru the gate as bentley had neared it waiting for me to leash him as he usualy does before we exit thru the gate and so i didnt have time to do anything or say anything or recal bentley..


You said earlier Bentley went up to them wagging etc , thats a dog out of control , ridiculous as that sounds its true

I am sorry this happened to you and Bentley though


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Georgee said:


> A park for dogs only? Really never heard of that. Who would pay for the up keep of a park for only dogs ? Surely not the council as its not exactly social inclusion!
> Are you sure the old man did not just panic and wave his stick about, accidentally hitting your dog? Is your dog injured?


im not sure who pays for it tbh i dont no if its council or privately owned land, and he didnt wave the stick around he aimed the end of it at bentley and thrusted it forward twice the 2nd time it hit bentley and yes he has a swelling above his left eye going to keep an eye on it n if needs be its a vet trip im so annoyed!


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Mese said:


> You said earlier Bentley went up to them wagging etc , thats a dog out of control , ridiculous as that sounds its true
> 
> I am sorry this happened to you and Bentley though


yes he stood waitin for me to catch up the gent walked thru and bentley saw him and wagged tail n the bloke went psycho on him ! he has a swellin above his eye x


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> i didnt have time to stop bentley my point is that bentley was friendly showed no sign of agresion towards the gent or the child so therefore hitin him with a stick in the face was totaly uncalled for!!


If the person can *not read dog body-language* and a dog is approaching his granddaughter with unknown intentions a defensive action is likely.

You were in the wrong, you were not in control of your dog, regardless of if it was 10 feet or 1,000 feet. I assume that the gate allowed you to see someone approaching why did you not recall your dog then?

We walk in fairly open countryside but I'm always watching for things that might be a problem, in your case do you let your guard down when you are in a dog park, failing to pre-empt events as they unfold in front of you?

You might feel you have a point to make but I think you will see the consensus is that you are barking up the wrong tree.

If you feel you have a case go to the police, if you don't feel that strongly and only want to keep banging your head against a computer screen I'll provide responses for you to rant against.

Have a nice day.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Afraid the old gent very likely reads the papers and believes what they all say that Staffies attack children or anyone come to thatI dont have staffies and even get abuse when my Border collies are on there leads,very intolerent anti dog world we live in now:wink:


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

The dog parks here are taken care of by the city or township they are found in as well as by the dog walkers.

My mom is terrified of large big dogs especially bull breeds and even tho she has still gotten better shes still scared easily but my mom would never go into an area where she knows shed run into loose dogs (dog parks, petstores, someones house) She still comes into the pet store with us but if she see a rather large dog she wont go in or just wait until they leave, no harm done.

Of course I dont let Sophie run up to people and the few times I have let her off lead she a stuck right with me, but if we were at the dog park with other off lead dogs and she ran up to someone and they freaked out Id question them as to why they walked thru two gates which are cleary outlined as dogs offlead area if they didnt like dogs.

The dog park here is part of a even bigger city park so plenty of space for people to walk without dogs running loose.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

Manoy Moneelil said:


> If the person can *not read dog body-language* and a dog is approaching his granddaughter with unknown intentions a defensive action is likely.
> 
> You were in the wrong, you were not in control of your dog, regardless of if it was 10 feet or 1,000 feet. I assume that the gate allowed you to see someone approaching why did you not recall your dog then?
> 
> ...


no i couldnt see as the gate stands at around 6ft and im 5'5 so ,,, i do feel strongly about it yes and if u find it annoying dont read my threads and yes you 2 enjoy ur day


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> To be honest if someone came to the dog park here where you HAVE to walk thru two gates to get in, if they freaked out because of the dogs to me thats there own fault not the dog owners, Its a dog park!


I could not agree more. Where we go we don't get stupid people with no dogs coming through unless they are dog friendly. If I go to the offlead dog play area, I expect friendly dogs and friendly doggie people, and that is what I get. Otherwise, don't go in there.



StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> i would like to defend myself here ,,, i am new to this site and didnt think the thread had posted as i couldnt find it on new posts i stil dont no how to use this site so give me a break << and that thread askin how ppl wud react was curiosity as people seem to cross over the road with there dog when they see i have a staff and i find it upsetting as bentleys so soft!


If you go to edit profile at the top of the page, choose edit options from the left and change the subscription bit to instant notification, you will get an email whenever anyone answers your posts.



Georgee said:


> A park for dogs only? Really never heard of that. Who would pay for the up keep of a park for only dogs ? Surely not the council as its not exactly social inclusion!
> Are you sure the old man did not just panic and wave his stick about, accidentally hitting your dog? Is your dog injured?


The one I use is privately owned land, all laid out with on lead dog walks and off lead dog walks, as well as the off lead area.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood (Feb 2, 2012)

suewhite said:


> Afraid the old gent very likely reads the papers and believes what they all say that Staffies attack children or anyone come to thatI dont have staffies and even get abuse when my Border collies are on there leads,very intolerent anti dog world we live in now:wink:


yep it a shame because staffys are so gentle they call them the nanny dog ... but the media has turned the world against staffs for a handful of cases ,,,


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## Paganman (Jul 29, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm in Norfolk


Hmmmm :


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## Chillis (Nov 30, 2011)

i do hope his eye feels a little less sore soon, the man shouldn't of poked him but i can understand why he did.
to him all he saw was a dog (which he believes to be a pit bull) coming towards him & his granddaughter & i assume instinct kicked in.
it's wise to remember while _you_ know he's friendly- he didn't & acted on what he thought he needed to do to protect his granddaughter.
when approaching people & other dogs, we ask the dogs to wait & clip the leads on. There is sometimes moments when in a split second they are on their way to someone, from this Ive learnt a quick whistle which i tend to do now without even thinking. I don't personally think it's okay for any dog to approach a person (like wise with people approaching dogs) without asking if it's okay first, manners keeps us safe


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I am not a perfect dog owner and have the odd occasion when mine have gone up to someone to say hello thank goodness always been other dog lovers,but I really think people cant go round whacking dogs over the head with walking sticks to my mind thats just asking to get bitten


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Paganman said:


> Hmmmm :


Watch it:hand:


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Georgee said:


> *A park for dogs only? Really never heard of that. Who would pay for the up keep of a park for only dogs ? Surely not the council as its not exactly social inclusion!*Are you sure the old man did not just panic and wave his stick about, accidentally hitting your dog? Is your dog injured?


Sadly there aren't many in the UK. Don't see why councils shouln't pay for them; every town I've been in has a child only play area in the park that I, and other child-less people help pay for so why not an area for dogs?


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> at the end of the day its a dog park and it clearly states dogs are loose on sign by the gate the gent entered through just as we were 10 feet away from and headin to as we were leaving the park bentley usualy waits at the gate for me and i put his lead on before exiting...i no the majority of the dog park owners and there dogs as ive been using it for over 2 yrs everyday twice a day.. the old gent ive never seen before struck my dog with a stick before givin me the chance to call bentley


Yes but that doesn't mean you have to put up with dogs coming up to you!! And from the mans point of view the devil dog could have attacked before you called him back! I would be pissed off with someone for hitting my dog but the simple fact is I don't let my dog run up to anyone and I don't let her off the lead. I'd also do whatever I thought was necessary to protect my dog! Yours wouldn't get any consideration if it came to the safety of mine!! That may sound like a over reaction but the safety of my loved ones will always come before others! And I've seen what dogs can do to others first hand too many times!!

And before you say it I'm not hating on the breed! However that incident has done nothing to change the old mans opinion of devil dogs has it! Way to go for reinforcing his opinion!


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Coffee said:


> So do you think it's acceptable for this man (I certainly wouldn't be calling him a gent as the generous OP is) to actually hit the dog? For just being in the same area as him? You don't "allow" dogs off lead to greet yours? What do you do in these situations then, just out of interest?
> 
> Before anyone jumps on me here, I am NOT saying it's okay for dogs to approach other dogs and people willy-nilly, of course it's not. But sometimes these things happen, sometimes your dog doesn't come back immediately, sometimes you don't see quickly enough. It doesn't justify what this man did though. Punishment hardly fitting the crime in my opinion. A simple "please call your dog, I'm scared/don't like them" or whatever would have done the job surely?


I pick her up and carry her until the dogs gone.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> I pick her up and carry her until the dogs gone.


To me thats damaging your dogs relations to other dogs. I have a small dog myself and I have at times picked her up (4 times) but i let her get on with it when other dogs come running on over as long as they dont look like they are about to trample her because their excited then I just stand in there way so they can slow down and greet properly.

I want Sophie to be comfortable around all types of dogs. And I would only ever step in and pick her up if I felt she would be physically hurt either on purpose or accident.

To me your giving small dog owners a bad image to other dog owners. Your making your dog even more scared if you pick her up when ever a dog comes to say Hi.

Also way is it in almost all your posts you come across aggressive and unfriendly


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

Hope your dogs eye is ok! Just keep checking it, my dog ruby had to go to the vets last year, I noticed that her eye was red and her pupil had a couple of white spots on it. I rushed her to the emergency vets as it was a Saturday night and they did they dye tests and came up with the conclusion that she must have poked herself in the eye with a twig while sticking her head in a bush in the garden. She just needed an antibiotic eye cream and then eye drops and had another dye test a week later to make sure everything was ok! It's right scary when they hurt their eyes. :cryin:

Hope his eye gets better soon.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> *Yes but that doesn't mean you have to put up with dogs coming up to you!! *And from the mans point of view the devil dog could have attacked before you called him back! I would be pissed off with someone for hitting my dog but the simple fact is I don't let my dog run up to anyone and I don't let her off the lead. I'd also do whatever I thought was necessary to protect my dog! Yours wouldn't get any consideration if it came to the safety of mine!! That may sound like a over reaction but the safety of my loved ones will always come before others! And I've seen what dogs can do to others first hand too many times!!
> 
> And before you say it I'm not hating on the breed! However that incident has done nothing to change the old mans opinion of devil dogs has it! Way to go for reinforcing his opinion!


That's like saying if you stand in the road you shouldn't have to put up with cars coming at you! I'm sorry but if I went to a dog park I'd expect dogs to come up to me. If I didn't want to be approached by dogs then I wouldn't go to a dog park!


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## Paganman (Jul 29, 2011)

Galadriel17 said:


> Sadly there aren't many in the UK. Don't see why councils shouln't pay for them; every town I've been in has a child only play area in the park that I, and other child-less people help pay for so why not an area for dogs?


Yeah but I like to play on the swings 

And those adventure type play grounds are great for agility training the dogs at 5 in the morning


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> Sadly there aren't many in the UK. Don't see why councils shouln't pay for them; every town I've been in has a child only play area in the park that I, and other child-less people help pay for so why not an area for dogs?


I read a couple of years ago that one had been opened in Bishops Stortford which was run by the council.



Galadriel17 said:


> That's like saying if you stand in the road you shouldn't have to put up with cars coming at you! I'm sorry but if I went to a dog park I'd expect dogs to come up to me. If I didn't want to be approached by dogs then I wouldn't go to a dog park!


Well said; good analogy.


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

I can completely see both sides of this discussion...if the park is a dog park then surely to god anybody would more than likely expect to see some dogs off lead, if you're not comfortable with that then don't go into one!....but that doesn't mean all dogs can run around doing whatever they wish in there, they still must be under the control of the owner.

I can also understand the reaction of the man, I'm not saying he was right to poke your dog in the eye but we have an elderly gentleman using a walking stick who has a small child with him...tbh I think his actions were more than likely panic and an automatic reaction trying to protect the child and himself, everyone can rant on as much as they like about him being OTT and wrong doing what he did but unless you are that old man with a child with a strange dog bounding up you really don't know how you would react on the spur of the moment....and of course unfortunately the bad media attention these breeds get doesn't help their reputation either.
He may not have intended to poke your dog in the eye at all, he was probably just trying to keep Bentley from himself and the child and the only thing he had was a walking stick as a barrier.

OP...I understand your feelings because he belongs to you, you love him, you know his temperament and if someone did that to my dog I'd be miffed too but I think maybe once you have calmed down a little you may be able to take a step back and look at the situation through the eyes of the old man with a child.

As I say, IMO I can see both sides to this one....anyway I hope both you and Bentley are ok after what happened.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Coffee said:


> A simple "please call your dog, I'm scared/don't like them" or whatever would have done the job surely?


Unfortunately, if someone is genuinely frightened they're likely to do something stupid. Like scream, flail around, run or hit the dog. Not saying the bloke was right to hit the dog, just pointing out that frightened people tend not to think rationally, they often just react.

I'm afraid if I entered a dog park I would expect dogs to approach me. The majority of people do not have good enough control over their dogs to recall them, teach them not to approach people or dogs without permission etc. This is the reason I chose to avoid off leash areas with Rupert. I don't avoid them with Spencer as I don't mind other dogs approaching him, he's friendly but on a long line because he'd just launch himself at everyone and smother them in kisses 

I hope Bentley is okay.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Helbo said:


> This might be unpopular...but I have to say...
> 
> I don't think it matters where this happened - dog park, beach, normal park, the street...If you have an offlead dog they should be under your control and you should ask them to wait before they approach any dog or human. Even dog parks that allow offlead play/walking have 'your dog must be under control' signs.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%



hawksport said:


> Whoever's right and wrong if the dog was under a bit more control there might have been chance to convert 2 anti Staffy members of the public


Sadly this opportunity was missed



StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> first of all the darling bentley comment came acros as tho u were makin out i cud see no wrong in my perfect dog i apologise for takin this the wrong way but i canot understand y u feel so strongly that i was at fault for allowin my dog to run off leash in a dog park , usualy people in dog parks are dog owners and actually like dogs why if u dislike or r frightened of dogs u feel the need to come into a dog park that is clearly sign posted with a small child i do not quite get? .... and Bentley was 10 feet ahead of me he had reached the gent before i had chance to do anything about it as the gent appeared thru the gate of the dog park as we were heading towards it... i didnt have time to stop bentley my point is that bentley was friendly showed no sign of agresion towards the gent or the child so therefore hitin him with a stick in the face was totaly uncalled for!! i appreciate ur opinion and i dont no u and u dont no me but pls dont make me out to be an irresponsible dog owner when i am clearly not its not like i was in a public park where children play with my dog off the lead it is a field especialy designed to alow dog owners to let there dogs run free in safety , there own safety as wel as that of the general public  ...


My personal view is your dog is your responsibility every time you step over your front door whether your on the pavement, in a dog park, a popular dog walking area or village common, whether your dog is off lead or onlead. It only takes one small accidental nip of a child or adult (Which can occur during 'play') and the next thing you know you have someone reporting you for having an out of control dog. Is is worth the risk?

I personally don't think it is.


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## Elizabetty (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh my word, why do so many people that own woofies such as Staffordshire Bull Terriers feel that the world owes them something?


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Elizabetty said:


> Oh my word, why do so many people that own woofies such as Staffordshire Bull Terriers feel that the world owes them something?


What an utterly ridiculous statement 

When, at ANY point, has the OP said anything about the world owing them anything? You've just literally made that up!

Oh, and "woofies"? Really? <vom>


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

Elizabetty said:


> Oh my word, why do so many people that own woofies such as Staffordshire Bull Terriers feel that the world owes them something?


WTF??!! :shocked:


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Elizabetty said:


> Oh my word, why do so many people that own woofies such as Staffordshire Bull Terriers feel that the world owes them something?


I dont think they believe they are owed anything , its more a case of being on the defensive from the start because their breed gets such bad press & the morons of the world and the uneducated believe the media rather than learn for themselves

I cant say id be any different if everyone suddenly decided border collies were the most evil dogs on the planet


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Coffee said:


> Oh, and "woofies"? Really? <vom>


Totally off-topic but that made me laugh so much. :lol:

And totally right as well.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

sorry but at the end of the day its not the responsibility of the non-dog owning community to learn about dog body language/how to behave around dogs etc etc its our responsibility as dog owners to show them our dogs are not a threat. 

If you can do a bit of whistle or whatever, say sit/down/leave it/come and your dog obeys, people will be more comfortable. If you are less than 10 feet away & can't shout your dog to leave & return to you people will be scared, how are they supposed to know what your dog is about to do, how are they supposed to know you are a "responsible" owner rather than a dipstick. 

There are plenty of numptys in the world - dog owning or not - and we all tend to get tarred with the same brush so its up to you, whatever type of dog you own, to prove you are caring/considerate/polite/responsible rather than the opposite - if someone has a small child with them why should they assume you are nice & your dog is nice if they don't know you


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## Elizabetty (Sep 11, 2011)

Mese said:


> I dont think they believe they are owed anything , its more a case of being on the defensive from the start because their breed gets such bad press & the morons of the world and the uneducated believe the media rather than learn for themselves
> 
> I cant say id be any different if everyone suddenly decided border collies were the most evil dogs on the planet


I guess so - it is the media making such a hype about this breed and that breed.

My original comment wasn't necessarily aimed at the original poster, or any poster in particular, I just get bored of reading posts by people who feel they are so hard done by because of the breed of dog they own, they are all just our gorgeous dogs at the end of the day, whatever breed!

I apologise for my use of the term 'woofies' to and shall stick strictly to the term 'dog' from now on.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Elizabetty said:


> I guess so - it is the media making such a hype about this breed and that breed.
> 
> My original comment wasn't necessarily aimed at the original poster, or any poster in particular, I just get bored of reading posts by people who feel they are so hard done by because of the breed of dog they own, they are all just our gorgeous dogs at the end of the day, whatever breed!
> 
> I apologise for my use of the term 'woofies' to and shall stick strictly to the term 'dog' from now on.


woofies , it makes me smile , but I dont think i'll be using it anytime soon to describe my lot


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

I can understand your frustration, I cannot imagine how upset I would be if someone hit him. Saying that some people are just over anxious around dogs and cannot help that, and even though you may know he is the most friendly of dogs the other person isn't to know that. Lashing out like that is awful though


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Where can i get a list of dog parks in the uk? Where is the one your dog was hit ?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> sorry but at the end of the day its not the responsibility of the non-dog owning community to learn about dog body language/how to behave around dogs etc etc its our responsibility as dog owners to show them our dogs are not a threat.


I actually think people _should_ be taught a little about how to behave around dogs to be honest. With how common dogs are it would make sense and would likely help cut down on the number of bites caused by humans doing typically human things.

Yes at the end of the day it is up to us as dog owners to control our dogs and show people they are not a threat but a little education on how to behave around dogs certainly wouldn't hurt.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> I actually think people _should_ be taught a little about how to behave around dogs to be honest. With how common dogs are it would make sense and would likely help cut down on the number of bites caused by humans doing typically human things.
> 
> Yes at the end of the day it is up to us as dog owners to control our dogs and show people they are not a threat but a little education on how to behave around dogs certainly wouldn't hurt.


True, but who is responsible for it - my dog looks "cute" I get loads of people approaching because he looks "nice" they assume he is, luckily he is but he might not be. People walk past and smile & pet him withouth asking, but he could be a hideous nasty brute - its my responsibility not theirs. I actually spend time with children particularly explaining its nothing to do with how they look and how they should behave round a dog any dog


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Mese said:


> woofies , it makes me smile , but I dont think i'll be using it anytime soon to describe my lot


I often call ours 'woofs'. dont know why.



Sarah1983 said:


> I actually think people _should_ be taught a little about how to behave around dogs to be honest. With how common dogs are it would make sense and would likely help cut down on the number of bites caused by humans doing typically human things.
> 
> Yes at the end of the day it is up to us as dog owners to control our dogs and show people they are not a threat but a little education on how to behave around dogs certainly wouldn't hurt.


It is a difficult one as some people would not appreciate it. I did go into the local school many years ago and give a lesson on dog care.

Why has this thread become so controversial and argumentative - I think there is a full moon so maybe that is why everyone is at each others throats in several threads.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I often call ours 'woofs'. dont know why.
> It is a difficult one as some people would not appreciate it. I did go into the local school many years ago and give a lesson on dog care.
> 
> Why has this thread become so controversial and argumentative - I think there is a full moon so maybe that is why everyone is at each others throats in several threads.


blitz it really shouldnt be controversial, my dog could be as nasty or as nice as the next one. I accept that as a big dog some people could be scared, I also accept that loads of people think he is a sweety because he looks cute maybe I should ask the local school if I can take him in to get kiddies to know how to act sensibly


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I've not read all 9 pages - sorry. But it is YOUR responsibility as the owner to ensure your dog is kept safe - at all times. Regardless of whether you are in a dog populated area or walking down a street, you need to have your dog under control - not some of the time, but all of the time!

Owning any breed of dog is a huge responsibility, and as such, should not be taken lightly, dogs need to be under control, all of the time, full stop. 

This absolutely does my head in where people (not directed at anyone in particular here) permit their dog(s) to do what they like, to wander up to people, dogs, paths, fields, tracks and have little or no control and then complain when a member of the public objects. Quite rightly so to IMO.


ArrrrrgggggHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!:cryin::cryin:


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## Houseofpets (Apr 23, 2011)

I agree, it is your responsibility to have the dog under control. My youngest dog is an 11 month old border collie and likes to round people up - never hurts them but circles if he gets the chance and for that reason he is kept on the lead at all times. I would love to let him off the lead and watch him run but other people don't appreciate his herding.

This week (and I still don't know how he did it), he broke from his lead and ran up to some children that were playing snowballs - he ran at them barking because he wanted to play, I was very very lucky in that their Dad came out and said 'throw him a snowball, he wants to play', they then spent about 10 mins throwing snowballs for the dogs. However, once they had finished and the dog was back on his lead I apologised the children and man concerned as my dog was not under full control.

I would hate for my dogs to get hit or hurt by anyone and unfortunately people do assume Border Collies are 'snappy' dogs.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

When I think dog area (fenced) its an area where dog owners can unleash their dogs without fear of their dogs stumbling across non doggy people.

Dog owners want areas where they can safely unleash their pups, yet the moment an undoggy person comes into the fenced area we are supposed to leash them until said person leaves?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Jackie99 said:


> I can understand your frustration, I cannot imagine how upset I would be if someone hit him. Saying that some people are just over anxious around dogs and cannot help that, and even though you may know he is the most friendly of dogs the other person isn't to know that. Lashing out like that is awful though


If they are over anxious around dogs they should stay out of designated dog parks, don't you think?



Georgee said:


> Where can i get a list of dog parks in the uk? Where is the one your dog was hit ?


I have tried to find a list myself to see if there are any others close, but didn't come up with anything on almighty Google. Let me know if you find it. The one we use is at magog down near Cambridge, as I said privately owned and I know there is one in Bishops Stortford, but I have never been as it is a little too far for me.



Miss.PuddyCat said:


> When I think dog area (fenced) its an area where dog owners can unleash their dogs without fear of their dogs stumbling across non doggy people.
> 
> Dog owners want areas where they can safely unleash their pups, yet the moment an undoggy person comes into the fenced area we are supposed to leash them until said person leaves?


That is my point exactly. In an area designated for off lead dogs one should expect the dogs to take priority.


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## Bella Beagle Mum (Jan 24, 2012)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> When I think dog area (fenced) its an area where dog owners can unleash their dogs without fear of their dogs stumbling across non doggy people.
> 
> Dog owners want areas where they can safely unleash their pups, yet the moment an undoggy person comes into the fenced area we are supposed to leash them until said person leaves?


I was thinking the same thing.....if we had a park like this around here (sadly we don't ) I would think this would be the best place to take my pup to in order to teach her recall - in a safe fenced in area...? But obviously she won't get it straight away so there will be a time that she is at risk of approaching other people and dogs.

Is this wrong then...?


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

OP can I have the name of the park please? I didn't know there was any dog parks in Blackpool, would love to go do some training there to get Aiden over the big fuss he makes trying to see every dog in a 100 mile radius.

IF this is a dog park then I do question anyone who walks through and expects not to be greeted by a dog of some sort, if this is not a formal "dog park" but just a park that gets used by alot of dog owners then its fully on your head to ensure your dog remains under control, this means kept away from members of the public. If this man thought your dog was a threat because, some people have had bad experiences with dogs and the media reinforces this fear then he may well have thought his only option was to warn the dog off. Even if the dogs friendly, a non dog person would not know any better.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Bella Beagle Mum said:


> I was thinking the same thing.....if we had a park like this around here (sadly we don't ) I would think this would be the best place to take my pup to in order to teach her recall - in a safe fenced in area...? But obviously she won't get it straight away so there will be a time that she is at risk of approaching other people and dogs.
> 
> Is this wrong then...?


I understand completely Sophie has never been offlead except the two recent trips we took to the fenced in dog park, so it wouldnt have surprised me if she went up to another person in there, but then again she is very nervous so I doubt shed get close enough to someone.

But I think they are the best places to practice recall for dogs.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

This is a different point of view, but thought I would give it anyway... 

Before we moved, I used to regularly walk in a country park that was pretty much exclusively used by dog walkers. I am more than patient with friendly doggies running up to Florence, and running up to me, for that matter. 

However, every so often we used to run into one particular off lead dog with no owner in sight. He would just swoop up to us out of nowhere and stand and stare at us, blocking our path. Florence was terrified of him and I found his body language very confusing. 

He never did anything to us but I found him intimidating. After a couple of weeks, I eventually saw him with his owner and told his owner in no uncertain terms what I thought. 

I knew full well that I was walking in a dog friendly park, however this kind of behavior I found completely unacceptable not to mention dangerous. 

So it doesn't matter if it's a dog park or not. You're dog shouldn't be running up to people. Body language, whether the dog is wagging his tail, smiling, CAN be confusing, especially to non dog owners. It's not about principles, breed prejudice or the opinions of a random stranger, your dog's safety is your priority and his safety was compromised today.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

bearcub said:


> This is a different point of view, but thought I would give it anyway...
> 
> Before we moved, I used to regularly walk in a country park that was pretty much exclusively used by dog walkers. I am more than patient with friendly doggies running up to Florence, and running up to me, for that matter.
> 
> ...


According to the original poster though, it was not a "dog friendly park" it was a "dog park" in other words an area of acreage, fully fenced in and signposted as an area designated for dogs to play off lead.

That is not the same thing as a country park which is mostly used by dogwalkers.

Royston Heath is mostly used by dog walkers, in fact on most days you won't see anybody else, but it is also used by everybody else for games, jogging, and all sorts. People who don't like dogs tend to stay away from the place, but it is their choice really. I wouldn't let my dogs go running up to dogfree people on the heath, but I would in a dog park.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

From your description you didn't have time to shout 'Wait' to your dog? really? finding that hard to believe. If your dog was trained to stop in their tracks when you tell them to this wouldn't have happened.

Theres nothing wrong with your dog being offlead in a dog park (so long as they're under your control) and theres nothing wrong with being in a dog park without a dog. 

It is wrong however to allow your dog to greet humans and dogs without their permission. No matter how friendly your dog is. 

It is also wrong the way the gentleman reacted. But perhaps he's used to dog owners having more control over their dogs? 

You have no idea what other dogs or people's reactions are going to be like so you need to protect your dog by training them to wait, instead of just running up to strangers.


I think its odd that people think training your dog to be off-lead is only about having them recall to you and not run off. It's also about having control over your dog for their protection and others.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> According to the original poster though, it was not a "dog friendly park" it was a "dog park" in other words an area of acreage, fully fenced in and signposted as an area designated for dogs to play off lead.
> 
> That is not the same thing as a country park which is mostly used by dogwalkers.
> 
> Royston Heath is mostly used by dog walkers, in fact on most days you won't see anybody else, but it is also used by everybody else for games, jogging, and all sorts. People who don't like dogs tend to stay away from the place, but it is their choice really. *I wouldn't let my dogs go running up to dogfree people on the heath, but I would in a dog park.*


With respect, why? A dog doesn't know the difference between a dog park, a dog friendly park or a non-dog friendly park. I don't know whether Newfies tend to be more aloof than Labs and Staffies, but if I allowed Florence to occasionally run up to people depending on where we were, it would be a hard habit to break. It's been hard enough training her NOT to do it in the first place 

The other issue I would see is that people in a dog park would more likely welcome your dog with open arms, maybe even give him/her a treat or a big fuss. This is surely contributing to the difficulty of training them that they can't do it in some places and can do it in others.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

bearcub said:


> With respect, why? A dog doesn't know the difference between a dog park, a dog friendly park or a non-dog friendly park. I don't know whether Newfies tend to be more aloof than Labs and Staffies, but if I allowed Florence to occasionally run up to people depending on where we were, it would be a hard habit to break. It's been hard enough training her NOT to do it in the first place
> 
> The other issue I would see is that people in a dog park would more likely welcome your dog with open arms, maybe even give him/her a treat or a big fuss. This is surely contributing to the difficulty of training them that they can't do it in some places and can do it in others.


Strangely enough, I agree with you. But I have spent six years trying to train Ferdie not to go up to everyone he sees, though he is good sometimes. If we saw golfers or joggers on the heath, for instance, and certainly young children, I can shout come away and he usually stops in his tracks. Joshua was the same. Diva is a different matter. She is nearly four and has had no contact with strangers or other dogs, except other newfies, before I got her. I know that in the dog park, the people are all dog friendly or they wouldn't be there.

I shan't be letting her off lead anywhere else for a very long time as I don't trust her not to take off, and she is after every dog she sees. So we are sticking to the dog park and gradually working with her. She has come away when I have called to her, but not every time.

And she doesn't always come back when I call her, not now she is getting more confident. I can trust Ferdie anywhere, at least I have for the past six years, but I can't see myself trusting Diva anywhere. We will see how things work out.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

I have to say it's ironic that just now the 2 topics beside each other in the list are one complaining about off lead out of control dogs and this one complaining about people reacting to an off lead out of control dog 

People have every right to go into a dog park without being harrassed by out of control dogs - they may have been going to meet up with someone else who has a well behaved dog, who knows. People can like some dogs and not others. People can be fine round dogs who are under control but feel threatened by ones who are not.

If an out of control dog runs up to me I won't physically hit it to make it go away unless it actually attacked me (I'm confident enough around dogs not to be intimidated by dogs charging towards me and to tell the difference between real and imagined threat) but I would be letting you know in no uncertain terms what I thought of your actions and complete lack of consideration towards other people.

The simple fact is - if you cannot stop your dog from running up to less than walking stick distance of someone, then that dog is not under your control. Blaming the person for reacting to your out of control dog does not alter that fact.

You seem to be extremely defensive when it comes to not all people being comfortable around bull breeds, yet you allow your dog to cause fear and alarm to people - maybe you need to start thinking about your own prejudices and look at your own actions before you start worrying about other people's


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> If they are over anxious around dogs they should stay out of designated dog parks, don't you think
> 
> That is my point exactly. In an area designated for off lead dogs one should expect the dogs to take priority.


I would have to disagree here. Horse owners are very limited as to where they can go and have designated bridleways where as dog walkers can go virtually anywhere. Yet often a rider cannot have a good gallop on the bridleway because it is full of walkers blocking the way. They are often chased by out of control dogs or even just lunged at by dogs that have been put on the lead but still go to attack the horses.
So why on earth should dog walkers think they have exclusive right to somewhere when they are not prepared to give exclusive right to horse owners on bridleways.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I would have to disagree here. Horse owners are very limited as to where they can go and have designated bridleways where as dog walkers can go virtually anywhere. Yet often a rider cannot have a good gallop on the bridleway because it is full of walkers blocking the way. They are often chased by out of control dogs or even just lunged at by dogs that have been put on the lead but still go to attack the horses.
> *So why on earth should dog walkers think they have exclusive right to somewhere when they are not prepared to give exclusive right to horse owners on bridleways*.


Not really getting into this but dog owners couldn't give exclusive rights even if they wanted to. Firstly bridleways can be used by pedestrians, those walking or riding a horse and cyclist (although the law states it shal not have any obligation to facilitate the use of bridleways by cyclists) as they are a public right of way dog owners can give you something that is public.

I do see the point you are making though.

Local councils have the right to designate land for the exercising of dogs, these area are sometimes found within parks where dogs are not allowed of lead in any other part of the park.

I have to say that you also have a obligation to control your dog in any public place.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> I have to say that you also have a obligation to control your dog in any public place.


This is such an important point an one I take seriously irrelevant of where I am - whether on lead on the pavement, bridle path, recreation ground or dog park.

This thread has been quite interesting in peoples pinions on 'acceptable' behavior and im guessing it varies from one area to the next.

But at the end of the day I am responsible for Millie and her behavior when out of the house, irrelevant of 'who has the most right' to be in a location I will always do my up most to ensure she does not cause a nuisance and most importantly does not behave in a way which could end in complaints being made.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Milliepoochie said:


> But at the end of the day I am responsible for Millie and her behavior when out of the house, irrelevant of 'who has the most right' to be in a location I will always do my up most to ensure she does not cause a nuisance and most importantly does not behave in a way which could end in complaints being made.


My sentiments exactly!!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

From what I gathered from the original post, the OP's dog was not out of control, merely walked up to greet someone. There was no need for his reaction, the dog didn't even get close enough to jump up even had he wanted to. If what the OP wrote is true, he reacted to the fact that it was a staffie.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Personally i wouldnt mind, but you would have to be ok with your dog being spoken to like a baby and stroked within a inch of its life by my kids lol 

In a dog park, i would think anyone walking through would be fine with all dogs, my friends children are scared of dogs and would run into the road to get away from them there is no way on earth she would walk them through a dog park ot take them to places that has lots of dogs that the children could avoid on thier own terms.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I suppose to put it into a context, it's important to remember, however hard it is to believe, that some people do not like dogs. Whatsoever. My uncle is one of these people, for example. You can tell he feels thoroughly uncomfortable around them, he tenses up and does not know how to engage with them. I felt the same way around the local yobs who used to stand around in our park drinking White Lightning. If one was to approach me, I would do my utmost to keep away from him, because I don't like to be made to feel uncomfortable and have my personal space invaded. 

I know this is a bit of a silly comparison but it makes sense to me to just step into another's shoes and see it from their point of view.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> From what I gathered from the original post, *the OP's dog was not out of control*, merely walked up to greet someone. There was no need for his reaction, the dog didn't even get close enough to jump up even had he wanted to. If what the OP wrote is true, he reacted to the fact that it was a staffie.


Unfortunatley the law would be very vague in this area, as it would be easy to say that a dog outside of its owners reach and with no physical constraint is not under control, or the owner is failing in their to duty to control their dog.

I have read this post from its start and although I think the Old Man could have dealt with the situation better, I am also fully aware of the moves within most LA (local authourities) to restrict the places you can take a dog.

I know from experience that when you have a breed that the media have demonised that you have to be 100% an ambassador for dogs everytime you go out. to quote spiderman " _*with great power comes great responsibilty*_" ( although I actually think that may have been spidermans Uncle Ben :w00t: )

The law makers are quick to come down on dog owners, sadly staffies, rotties, GSD, doberman, RR, American Bulldog owners have to up their game because to those who make the rules don't live in the real world :hand:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> Not really getting into this but dog owners couldn't give exclusive rights even if they wanted to. Firstly bridleways can be used by pedestrians, those walking or riding a horse and cyclist (although the law states it shal not have any obligation to facilitate the use of bridleways by cyclists) as they are a public right of way dog owners can give you something that is public.
> 
> I do see the point you are making though.
> 
> ...


oh I agree with you, but non dog walkers are also allowed in the park and, as with horses on bridleways, have to be given due consideration.



LostGirl said:


> Personally i wouldnt mind, but you would have to be ok with your dog being spoken to like a baby and stroked within a inch of its life by my kids lol
> 
> In a dog park, i would think anyone walking through would be fine with all dogs, my friends children are scared of dogs and would run into the road to get away from them there is no way on earth she would walk them through a dog park ot take them to places that has lots of dogs that the children could avoid on thier own terms.


Would you also assume that anyone with an out of control dog or one that was very reactive towards horses would not be walked on a bridleway.
Because that does not happen!

Can I also add that I dont actually think the OP's dog did anything wrong and it was purely bad luck that the dog approached someone that took evasive action and, probably accidentally, poked the dog in the eye.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

bearcub said:


> I suppose to put it into a context, it's important to remember, however hard it is to believe, that some people do not like dogs. Whatsoever. *My uncle is one of these people, for example. You can tell he feels thoroughly uncomfortable around them*, he tenses up and does not know how to engage with them. I felt the same way around the local yobs who used to stand around in our park drinking White Lightning. If one was to approach me, I would do my utmost to keep away from him, because I don't like to be made to feel uncomfortable and have my personal space invaded.
> 
> I know this is a bit of a silly comparison but it makes sense to me to just step into another's shoes and see it from their point of view.


But would your uncle go wandering into a dog park? Probably not. My daughter's boyfriend was afraid of dogs, though not of Ferdie when he was a puppy. He used to take Ferdie out for a walk but he would not take him on the heath because he was afraid of the other dogs. No way in the world would you get him to go into a dog park.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> *Unfortunatley the law would be very vague in this area, as it would be easy to say that a dog outside of its owners reach and with no physical constraint is not under control, or the owner is failing in their to duty to control their dog.*
> 
> I have read this post from its start and although I think the Old Man could have dealt with the situation better, I am also fully aware of the moves within most LA (local authourities) to restrict the places you can take a dog.
> 
> ...


Actually, unless it's specified that dog has to be on a lead in a particular area I think the law just requires it to be 'under close control' which, like you say is not defined but is generally accepted to mean responsive to the handler's commands, it doesn't have to be in reach of the handler, for example, a dog could be 100 meters away from its handler when it sees a squirrel and looks like its about to chase, the handler notices and commands the dog to stay and if it does as it was told it would be considered 'under close control'.


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## Nancy23 (Feb 7, 2012)

Awww your poor doggy, hope hes ok! what a total bastard id of wacked him with the stick! you get some right prats!


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## Nancy23 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh and P.S love ya dogs name, realy cool.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> But would your uncle go wandering into a dog park? Probably not. My daughter's boyfriend was afraid of dogs, though not of Ferdie when he was a puppy. He used to take Ferdie out for a walk but he would not take him on the heath because he was afraid of the other dogs. No way in the world would you get him to go into a dog park.


Only if he was lost  funniest thing is, he and my auntie come up to my mum's every new year when we're over there too, so we've normally got at least 3 dogs in the house. Poor guy, doesn't know what to do with himself  and typical dogs, they seem to gravitate towards him, determined to get a fuss of him


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Only if he was lost  funniest thing is, he and my auntie come up to my mum's every new year when we're over there too, so we've normally got at least 3 dogs in the house. Poor guy, doesn't know what to do with himself  and typical dogs, they seem to gravitate towards him, determined to get a fuss of him


A lot of dogs do that if someone is frightened of them. It is as though they are saying "I'm nothing to be scared of". Other dogs will take advantage of the situation, depends on the breed I think and the dog.

I had someone at my house once who was obviously scared of Ferdie. She shoved her hands in her pockets and stood rigid. I told her to go sit down which she did, Ferdie went up, sat down and laid his head on her lap. Within five minutes she was stroking his head.

My aunt was so scared of dogs she would cross the road several times rather than walk past one. When she visited our dogs got shut in the garage. One night she was coming out the front door and one of ours escaped. He was a big dog, dobermann x mastiff, but very friendly. He did unfortunately jump up people and he jumped up her. She passed out on the doorstep, that is how scared she was.

But you would never have found her anywhere where there were likely to be dogs off lead.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Galadriel17 said:


> Sadly there aren't many in the UK. Don't see why councils shouln't pay for them; every town I've been in has a child only play area in the park that I, and other child-less people help pay for so why not an area for dogs?


Yes and sports fields which I have never and don't intend to use to play rugby or football


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

cbrookman said:


> Yes and sports fields which I have never and don't intend to use to play rugby or football


Yup, and tennis courts, skateboard parks...We could go on and on


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Yes and sports fields which I have never and don't intend to use to play rugby or football





Galadriel17 said:


> Yup, and tennis courts, skateboard parks...We could go on and on


Those are very good points, actually. Bridlepaths as well are maintained by someone, and cycle paths. I don't ride a horse, nor do I cycle. And I certainly have no interest in sport of any description.

They should provide dog parks, in my opinion.

In the US though, where there are loads of dog parks, people say they would rather not have them as you are then not allowed to have your dog off leash anywhere else.

In Australia, in Perth where my daughter and Water Lily live, they even have dog beaches! Wouldn't that be great?


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Sometimes wish someone would be horrible to my dog (not in the eye with a stick though) as he approaches people when out on walks, thankfully he is not running up to them at full pelt now that he is approaching 2. I recall him but often he doesn't respond until after he has greeted them. Trouble is 9 times out of 10 people reward him for approaching them with a big fuss and cuddle even when I am still trying to call him back Yet my other dog doesn't do this at all and is much easier to control so I think it isn't something I am or am not doing it is just they have different personalities.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Where i walk my dogs offlead if i see someone with a walking stick or a child i will always put my dogs on lead,, just in case my dogs were to go up to them a little fast,, if i was out with my g/children i would expect someone to not allow their dog to come running up to us, after all we are not to know if that dog is child/people friendly.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Sometimes wish someone would be horrible to my dog (not in the eye with a stick though) as he approaches people when out on walks, thankfully he is not running up to them at full pelt now that he is approaching 2. I recall him but often he doesn't respond until after he has greeted them. Trouble is 9 times out of 10 people reward him for approaching them with a big fuss and cuddle even when I am still trying to call him back Yet my other dog doesn't do this at all and is much easier to control so I think it isn't something I am or am not doing it is just they have different personalities.


What happens on the tenth time?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

hazel pritchard said:


> Where i walk my dogs offlead if i see someone with a walking stick or a child i will always put my dogs on lead,, just in case my dogs were to go up to them a little fast,, if i was out with my g/children i would expect someone to not allow their dog to come running up to us, after all we are not to know if that dog is child/people friendly.


Strangely, if Ferdie approaches someone with a walking stick I have only to say "careful" and he will curb his enthusiasm. It is strange the words that dogs understand which we have never really thought about. I talk to my dogs the same as I would to anybody, and they always seem to understand at least one word in a sentence.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

Galadriel17 said:


> Actually, unless it's specified that dog has to be on a lead in a particular area I think the law just requires it to be 'under close control' which, like you say is not defined but is generally accepted to mean responsive to the handler's commands, it doesn't have to be in reach of the handler, for example, a dog could be 100 meters away from its handler when it sees a squirrel and looks like its about to chase, the handler notices and commands the dog to stay and if it does as it was told it would be considered 'under close control'.


As I said vague, there is no understanding of the term close control and it would be specific to the event, now this is where it gets difficult...
You try and prove that the Old Man in OP did NOT feel that the dog was not under close control.
Sect 2 of the Dogs act would suggest;
a dog can show itself to be dangerous in its general behaviour, not just its behaviour towards a person

If the Old Man felt the dog to be dangerous you would have a very difficult time to prove the level of control and as the dog was already close enough to him for him to strike it.

"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so."
Sect 2 Dogs Act

I also would struggle to convince anyone that a dog 100 yards away was under close control..under control possibly but the very term close control must have been written in for a reason, otherwise under control would have been used.

It is a very difficult law to prove and ask yourself "would you REALLY want to have to go through all of this???"

You would have to prove that the other person didn't feel under threat ( you'd have more chance of disproving whiplash  )

Like I have said before *With great power comes great responsibility*


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

beris said:


> What happens on the tenth time?


Sometimes (1 time out of 10!) people will ignore him or turn their back towards him which is great as it stops him thinking everyone wants to greet him and make a fuss of him. Short of hiring a crowd of people to do this I have problems with getting him to leave people alone as mostly people react very favourably to his friendly nature.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Sometimes wish someone would be horrible to my dog (not in the eye with a stick though) as he approaches people when out on walks, thankfully he is not running up to them at full pelt now that he is approaching 2. I recall him but often he doesn't respond until after he has greeted them. Trouble is 9 times out of 10 people reward him for approaching them with a big fuss and cuddle even when I am still trying to call him back Yet my other dog doesn't do this at all and is much easier to control so I think it isn't something I am or am not doing it is just they have different personalities.


You need to try and set your dog up for success - not allow him to fail. He has learnt to ignore recall and greet whom he wants which whilst is frutrating could be dangerous in other situations.

What if he had his heart set on greeting someone the other side of a road?

I would maybe consider using a longline until you have a more solid recall.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Sometimes (1 time out of 10!) people will ignore him or turn their back towards him which is great as it stops him thinking everyone wants to greet him and make a fuss of him. Short of hiring a crowd of people to do this I have problems with getting him to leave people alone as mostly people react very favourably to his friendly nature.


No need for a crowd. There is another method--Dog training.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Those are very good points, actually. Bridlepaths as well are maintained by someone, and cycle paths. I don't ride a horse, nor do I cycle. And I certainly have no interest in sport of any description.
> 
> They should provide dog parks, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


That's a shame, if they did that here I would fight it 'till I was black and blue! Children are still allowed off lead everywhere else!


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> *As I said vague, there is no understanding of the term close control and it would be specific to the event, now this is where it gets difficult...*
> 
> You try and prove that the Old Man in OP did NOT feel that the dog was not under close control.
> Sect 2 of the Dogs act would suggest;
> ...


This is true. I was simply pointing out that a dog doesn't necessarily have to be on a lead or within touching distance to be considered under close control.

I looked into it quite a bit as my grandparents have a farm and there is a public footpath that runs through two of the fields and they have had a lot of problems with chickens being killed, sheep being worried etc. so my grandad used to ask anyone he saw with a dog to kindly put it on a lead and a lot of people refused saying it doens't have to be on a lead which is what prompted me to look into what the law requires.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> This is true. I was simply pointing out that a dog doesn't necessarily have to be on a lead or within touching distance to be considered under close control.
> 
> I looked into it quite a bit as my grandparents have a farm and there is a public footpath that runs through two of the fields and they have had a lot of problems with chickens being killed, sheep being worried etc. so my grandad used to ask anyone he saw with a dog to kindly put it on a lead and a lot of people refused saying it doens't have to be on a lead which is what prompted me to look into what the law requires.


Your poor grandparents! My uncle has a farm - not been for ages, but I recall when I was little him posting signs by the footpath running through his fields saying that out of control dogs would be shot after he had a spate of sheep worrying dogs. He also used to go out at busier walking times and wander about with a notebook and pen, writing down descriptions of owners and dogs who were all over his fields off the footpath and telling the owners that if he saw their dog out of control again near his livestock then the consequences would be dire.

It sounds rude, but when you have sheep aborting that is your livelihood going down the pan isn't it? For what it is worth he never shot a dog!


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I own a Staffie there may be a few members on here who have joined in walks around Cannock Chase with us, he is the friendliest dog you will ever meet. However for his own protection I keep him on a lead albeit a flexi-lead because he does enjoy attention from everyone and will ignore me, when distracted by something more enjoyable and fun.

I am fully aware of the unfair media witch hunt against the breed and breed type, joe pulic assumes a SBT and/or EBT are pitbulls more so if they are a cross SBT or EBT. This is again because of the dogs they portray along side a story involving a dog attack, most of us know this is sensationalism and sells papers but creates panic to the point of hysteria and prejudice against bull breeds.

A friendly bull breed running up to joe public can be construde as intimidation which is grounds for the dog to be seized under the DDL, right or wrong a bull breed is more than likely to be seized on the ground of intimidation than any other breed. I don't put my dog in that position.

I also appreciated other dog walkers are not comfortable with the breed, their main concern is for the safety of their dog - I won't lie I am wary of someone else's SBT or EBT off lead hurtling towards us. I will go so far as to say I am wary about any dog hurtling towards us. I always try to stop the dog by commanding it to stop/stay with a strong movement of my arm out stretch, most dog will stop some will turn away others will inch forward puppies totally ignore. Then there are the dogs who want to have a go, while owners say oh! he's never done that before - what a load of twaddle. 

If a dog came running up to me and my grandchild at the very least I would lift the child, play holy hell with the the owner for not having the dog under control. People have a right to visit a Park without been harassed by our dogs, we love friendly, fluffy, fussy, dogs no matter what the breed, not all people do.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Your poor grandparents! My uncle has a farm - not been for ages, but I recall when I was little him posting signs by the footpath running through his fields saying that out of control dogs would be shot after he had a spate of sheep worrying dogs. He also used to go out at busier walking times and wander about with a notebook and pen, writing down descriptions of owners and dogs who were all over his fields off the footpath and telling the owners that if he saw their dog out of control again near his livestock then the consequences would be dire.
> 
> It sounds rude, but when you have sheep aborting that is your livelihood going down the pan isn't it? For what it is worth he never shot a dog!


They do have signs up asking for dogs to be kept under control but people still take no notice. I've said they should state they will be shot if not (even though they wouldn't) and that might make people listen but they don't want to do that because of potential backlash. They know of a farmer who's farm was vandalised just because he had a sign saying dogs would be shot if they were worrying animals. I for one wouldn't blame any farmer that shot my dog if it was worrying livestock but there are lots that wouldn't agree.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorry, I'm taking the tread a bit of topic above!

Whilst I agree with everyone that's said the responsibility remains with the dog owner I still maintain non-doggy people should be aware that they can trigger a dog attack just by how they behave.

Yesterday for example, my OH took our three out down the track and it was dark. Rolo was about 20/30ft infront off lead when a man suddenly appeared with two small children out of the bushes at the side of the track. This startled Rolo and he froze and did a little 'ooomphh' noise (not a bark but an 'oo what's that' type noise). The man started shouting and waving his arms around, the OH called Rolo and he came right back to him and was put on his lead. 

Now if it had of been a different dog that hadn't been so well behaved it could have been very different, and yes whilst it would be the dog owners fault for having his dog off lead/not under control if it did attack, the man with his kids may still have been able to prevent an attack by just standing still and remaining calm.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> That's a shame, if they did that here I would fight it 'till I was black and blue! Children are still allowed off lead everywhere else!


Now children should be on a lead everywhere Perhaps then some of these dopey mothers would be able to control them instead of saying daft things like: Be good and I'll buy you some sweeties.

There is a big estate here, stately home, thousands of acres of farmland, with livestock and without, but no public right of way. The family have always allowed people to walk their dogs through their land, which is a generous act and the least people can do is be grateful enough to keep their dogs under control.

I would be devastated if one of my dogs killed anybody's livestock.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Galadriel17 said:


> Sorry, I'm taking the tread a bit of topic above!
> 
> Whilst I agree with everyone that's said the responsibility remains with the dog owner I still maintain non-doggy people should be aware that they can trigger a dog attack just by how they behave.
> 
> ...


Whilst I do agree a person who has experience of dogs would not have reacted in that way, however it is not up to Joe Public to know how to control our dogs it is up to us to train our dogs as you have done.

I have subjected my dog to loads of different noises, sudden loud bangs, screams etc..

I was passing two young couples, I tend to talk gently to Duke on our walks flaming good job he was focused on me. One of the lads stamped his foot lunge at Duke with a sudden loud blah type noise. Basically showing off in front of his girlfriend and friends, he wasn't afraid of the dog. Duke never flinched just kept walking with me. I did not change my tone just continued saying good boy adding ignore the twit.

I would say this guy was definitely trying to provoke a reaction. Even though Duke was on the lead at that proximity Duke could easily have lunged and bit the lad. Had that have happened I would then have put the blame on the lad, not me or my dog, unfortunately being a bull breed the law would have seen it differently.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> Sorry, I'm taking the tread a bit of topic above!
> 
> Whilst I agree with everyone that's said the responsibility remains with the dog owner I still maintain non-doggy people should be aware that they can trigger a dog attack just by how they behave.
> 
> ...


Dog owners are the minority in society therefore IMO I believe it is up to the dog owner to make sure his dog is under control. Not the man walking his children.

I cannot understand why some dog owners wont take responsibility for their dogs actions and make excuses for them.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

I completely agree that it's up to the owner to keep a dog under control but we live in a society where not everyone is responsible and we should always know how to keep ourselves and others (especially children) as safe as possible. 

If I didn't have dogs and I had children (being the kind of prepared person I am!) I would make sure I knew how to react should I encounter an off lead dog and teach my children in the same way I would teach my children how to safely cross a road. 

Considering around 26% of households have a dog they're not exactly rare and it's likely most people will encounter a dog(s) at some point in their life so to me it's a significant enough potential risk to learn how best to protect myself and my children against if I had them.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone in the street to know how to deal with dogs. Theres just too much to know. As dog owners sometimes we don't know how to deal with them!

But I do agree that we should be teaching ourselves and our children the basics of what to do to protect yourself should you encounter an off-lead or stray dog. 

But in this particular encounter, what was the old gent to do? He had a walking stick and was shooing the dog away from his grandchild that he probably wasn't able to pick up or pull towards him...I dunno. It's not black and white what to do sometimes.


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Helbo said:


> I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone in the street to know how to deal with dogs. Theres just too much to know. As dog owners sometimes we don't know how to deal with them!
> 
> But I do agree that we should be teaching ourselves and our children the basics of what to do to protect yourself should you encounter an off-lead or stray dog.
> 
> But in this particular encounter, what was the old gent to do? He had a walking stick and was shooing the dog away from his grandchild that he probably wasn't able to pick up or pull towards him...I dunno. It's not black and white what to do sometimes.


Simply staying still, keeping calm and ignoring a dog, in most situations will make a person uninteresting/not threatening for a dog.

Perhaps if the 'gent' had done that in this situation the OP wouldn't have been in shock and would have simply recalled her dog. I know if someone started hitting one of my dogs with a stick I'd probably freeze for a moment or two trying to register whether or not it was actually happening!


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> Simply staying still, keeping calm and ignoring a dog, in most situations will make a person uninteresting/not threatening for a dog.
> 
> Perhaps if the 'gent' had done that in this situation the OP wouldn't have been in shock and would have simply recalled her dog. I know if someone started hitting one of my dogs with a stick I'd probably freeze for a moment or two trying to register whether or not it was actually happening!


Oh I agree - I'm not saying he should have hit the dog, but just perhaps cut him a bit of slack as he was trying to protect his granddaughter. I know there was nothing to really protect her from as the OP says her dog is friendly, but if he wanted the dog away from her then thats perfectly acceptable. He was probably trying to shoo the dog with his walking stick and it escalated when the dog kept trying to get close to his grandaughter.

At the end of the day, if the OP was in the habit of getting their dog to stop before greeting people this wouldn't have happened. Being off-lead isn't just about being able to recall your dog, it's about good manners also. Nobody and no dog should have to greet a dog if they don't want to. And you should protect your own dog from strangers - as you never know whats going to happen. If anything this situation demonstrates that. You never know how people are going to react, so it's best to keep your precious dog away from them unless both parties agree it's ok to greet+/play

I walk Charlie on a lead and I ask everyone whether he can say hello or not, as well as asking if their dogs are friendly.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Galadriel17 said:


> Simply staying still, keeping calm and ignoring a dog, in most situations will make a person uninteresting/not threatening for a dog.
> 
> Perhaps if the 'gent' had done that in this situation the OP wouldn't have been in shock and would have simply recalled her dog. I know if someone started hitting one of my dogs with a stick I'd probably freeze for a moment or two trying to register whether or not it was actually happening!


Perhaps if the "gent" hadn't taken himself and his grandchild into a dog park, he would not have been frightened, Bentley would have been safe and the grandchild would not have been scared of dogs for the rest of her life.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the simple fact that it was a *dog park* designated for off lead dogs.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Perhaps if the "gent" hadn't taken himself and his grandchild into a dog park, he would not have been frightened, Bentley would have been safe and the grandchild would not have been scared of dogs for the rest of her life.
> 
> Everyone seems to be forgetting the simple fact that it was a *dog park* designated for off lead dogs.


I've said previously - I don't care where it happened. Theres no excuse for the OP to not have full control of her dog. If they can't get their dog to stop in his tracks on demand, to give time to ask permission to greet people, then they shouldn't be off-lead. Period.

So what if this guy was walking through a dog park? All the dog parks I visit have actual signs saying that you're to pick up after your dog and that you must KEEP YOUR DOG UNDER CONTROL

At the end of the day I'm saying that the OP should be protecting their dog. I'm definitely not saying this guy was right for hitting the dog. But that the OP should have training in place to keep her lovely staffy away from crazies!


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Perhaps if the "gent" hadn't taken himself and his grandchild into a dog park, he would not have been frightened, Bentley would have been safe and the grandchild would not have been scared of dogs for the rest of her life.
> 
> Everyone seems to be forgetting the simple fact that it was a *dog park* designated for off lead dogs.


I think it shouldn't be forgotten that the Op was asked where this 'dog only park' was by another person from same area as she wasn't aware that there were any 'dog only parks' in that area.

To my knowledge the OP hasn't answered that question.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

beris said:


> I think it shouldn't be forgotten that the Op was asked where this 'dog only park' was by another person from same area as she wasn't aware that there were any 'dog only parks' in that area.
> 
> To my knowledge the OP hasn't answered that question.


Yes, I too am awaiting the answer to that question. Was it a dog park or was it a dog-friendly park? There is a world of difference in my opinion.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Perhaps if the "gent" hadn't taken himself and his grandchild into a dog park, he would not have been frightened, Bentley would have been safe and the grandchild would not have been scared of dogs for the rest of her life.
> 
> Everyone seems to be forgetting the simple fact that it was a *dog park* designated for off lead dogs.





newfiesmum said:


> Yes, I too am awaiting the answer to that question. Was it a dog park or was it a dog-friendly park? There is a world of difference in my opinion.




I don't know what type of park it will turn out to be but I guess you are just covering all the options


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Bedlingtondoodle said:


> I don't know what type of park it will turn out to be but I guess you are just covering all the options


I am thinking specifically of the places to walk dogs in my area, since I don't know the OP's area. Royston Heath for instance is dog friendly, as are all country parks with off lead areas, but not excusively for off lead dogs. In those places I would expect non doggie people to come along and would be more careful.

A dog park, an area specifically designated for off lead dogs and signposted as such, is fenced in and has gates either end. I do not expect people who do not like dogs to venture into such a place, and so far I have not met any.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

Sorry just it was a *simple fact*

Then your next post said *Was it a dog park or was it a dog-friendly park?*

I was a little confused and to be honest still am.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

The OP later said it was a dog park - making some people assume that it was a special park thats really only for dogs to be walked and to play. But I suppose locals might walk there is this was the only green area nearby to them. But posters based their opinions and posts on it being a designated dog-park.

But then other people have wondered whether it was a specific dog park, or whether it was a regular park that's dog-friendly. This means that although it's not a special park, the local council allows dogs to be walked off-lead but usually put up signs that your dog must be under control rather than your dog must be leashed. But theres usually walkways and possibly a children's park etc. If it is just a dog-friendly park, this might change some people's opinions slightly. 

Still confused?


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

Helbo said:


> The OP later said it was a dog park - making some people assume that it was a special park thats really only for dogs to be walked and to play. But I suppose locals might walk there is this was the only green area nearby to them. But posters based their opinions and posts on it being a designated dog-park.
> 
> But then other people have wondered whether it was a specific dog park, or whether it was a regular park that's dog-friendly. This means that although it's not a special park, the local council allows dogs to be walked off-lead but usually put up signs that your dog must be under control rather than your dog must be leashed. But theres usually walkways and possibly a children's park etc. If it is just a dog-friendly park, this might change some people's opinions slightly.
> 
> Still confused?


My confusion came from the speed at which it changed from *fact* to *was it or wasn't it*, I thank you for your explanation of the difference between the two though


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## Mumbles (Apr 17, 2011)

It was a complete over reaction from the old guy.

The dog walked up to them, so not running visciously and from the sounds of it didn't jumped or anything, just walked up to hem wagging his tail , to then get hit by a stick is disgusting.

We have no idea if th dog was out of control as it has not been expressed that the op tried to get dog back and was ignored, sounds more like tht op was not even aware this would be an issue as dog was calm and did not try o call dog back, I would be he same I walk along a trck relatively thin and I leave toodles off lead and he will walk closely past ppl and I would expect him not to get hit.

It is now a learning curve for th op and I'm sure they will think twice next time letting their dog walk up to someone and some slack should be given

I hope ur little Bentley has recovered from his ordeal


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Helbo said:


> I've said previously - I don't care where it happened. Theres no excuse for the OP to not have full control of her dog. If they can't get their dog to stop in his tracks on demand, to give time to ask permission to greet people, then they shouldn't be off-lead. Period.
> 
> So what if this guy was walking through a dog park? All the dog parks I visit have actual signs saying that you're to pick up after your dog and that you must KEEP YOUR DOG UNDER CONTROL
> 
> At the end of the day I'm saying that the OP should be protecting their dog. I'm definitely not saying this guy was right for hitting the dog. But that the OP should have training in place to keep her lovely staffy away from crazies!


Fantastic post  I agree 100% I think its completely irrelevant where it happened. Top priority is keeping close control of your dog in busy environments - because the unexpected does happen as shown in this original post.



newfiesmum said:


> Yes, I too am awaiting the answer to that question. Was it a dog park or was it a dog-friendly park? There is a world of difference in my opinion.


I would be intrigued to know to- I honestly didn't know we had US style dog parks in the UK. Lol off to do some googling


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

beris said:


> No need for a crowd. There is another method--Dog training.


What a smug self satisfied patronising person you come over as in your responses. FYI I HAVE trained my dog(s) and have taken them both to classes where they have been trained to recall on long lines in enclosed paddocks having been allowed to socialise with other dogs and then recalled. However my one dog is not interested in treats as a reward (he is not a very greedy dog) or even a toy as a reward and he gets a lot of fuss from the family and so doesn't see praise as much of a reward either. You may have been lucky with the breed of dog(s) or even the individual personality traits of the dog(s) you have at the moment as I am indeed with the one of my dogs who has responded well to training. However not all dogs are as easy to train as others as I have found out. I have come across many self styled experts like yourself who have offered various snippets of unwelcome and unrequested advice, ranging from - twist his ears if he doesn't come back, smack him on the nose when he pulls, try a different treat (WOW NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!!!!), reward him with a ball (the latter 2 I have tried ad infinitum without success, but I have not tried the former 2 methods!). So do me a favour and only comment if you have something constructive to add:001_tongue:


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Heres something constructive. If you can't stop your dog greeting strangers without permission, don't walk them off-lead. Otherwise eventually you may be posting on here about your dog being bitten by a dog or kicked by a nasty person. 

Just because your dog may recall well doesn't mean it has the right to go up to people and dogs who may not want it to. And just because most people turn their backs etc. one day your luck may run out. 


I have this opinion because I don't want YOUR dog to be in danger, as well as not thinking its right for your dog to cause anyone else any hassle. 


Why don't you try an empty field (or somewhere with little distractions), and getting your dog to 'wait' (i.e. stop in their tracks) on command? If they stop and wait for you to reach them they get a treat. Something irresistible to your dog whether its treats, fuss or a game. Have a release word too so they know when they can set off again. 

You may want to start this off on a long line so you can show them what you want them to do.

If you go to a training class then the trainer could help you if you ask.

If this is 'unwelcome' advice then I'm sorry. I'm just assuming you'd want to do everything possible to have your dog under control and to protect them.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> However my one dog is not interested in treats as a reward (he is not a very greedy dog) or even a toy as a reward and he gets a lot of fuss from the family and so doesn't see praise as much of a reward either.


Rupert was like this. Only thing he really found rewarding was chasing and killing other animals, not exactly something I could use. I had the same sort of advice given to me over and over again and was called a liar several times when I said he wasn't interested in food, toys or fusses. I had a behaviourist and several trainers out to Rupert, he stumped them all. 2 recommended he be put to sleep  and the rest just labelled him untrainable :nonod:

At the risk of giving unsolicited advice...have you tried using the Premack principle? I had some success with that.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> Rupert was like this. Only thing he really found rewarding was chasing and killing other animals, not exactly something I could use. I had the same sort of advice given to me over and over again and was called a liar several times when I said he wasn't interested in food, toys or fusses. I had a behaviourist and several trainers out to Rupert, he stumped them all. *2 recommended he be put to sleep  and the rest just labelled him untrainable *:nonod:
> 
> At the risk of giving unsolicited advice...have you tried using the Premack principle? I had some success with that.


Not much use really, are they? A behaviour that cannot be trained can at least be managed, so why I keep hearing how they are untrainable or want to execute them is beyond me.

Despite being a piggy at home, Ferdie has no interest whatsoever in food while he is out and about. They are not interested in balls either, or toys, they are only interested in playing with other dogs and getting fusses from people.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Not much use really, are they? A behaviour that cannot be trained can at least be managed, so why I keep hearing how they are untrainable or want to execute them is beyond me.
> 
> Despite being a piggy at home, Ferdie has no interest whatsoever in food while he is out and about. They are not interested in balls either, or toys, they are only interested in playing with other dogs and getting fusses from people.


It's bloody stupid. The only trainer I found who didn't just dismiss him was one who used choke chains and traditional methods. She allowed me to take him to her classes and basically do our own thing as long as it didn't disrupt the class. She was horrified that I'd been told to put him to sleep or just give up and accept that he would never learn anything.

Rupert wasn't untrainable, it was just that what motivated him wasn't something I could really use. Add in his 2 second attention span, hyper vigilance and irrational fears and he was extremely difficult. He eventually learned to sit while out and to walk nicely on leash. His recall was good unless he spotted something to chase, then it went out the window. At home he loved clicker training but it seemed the process he enjoyed rather than the food, he'd often leave the food and clean up when I finished the session. Proofing the behaviours out of the house was the problem.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> At the risk of giving unsolicited advice...have you tried using the Premack principle? I had some success with that.


Will find out what this is thanks. 
The trainer I took him to even told me after weeks of lead training that I would just have to accept that some dogs will always need to walk on a headcollar and it was not accepting defeat as I first thought We did all the treat training and the command Close when walking with a loose lead. stopping and walking backwards and turning 360 degrees (all over the course of several months and not done close enough together to confuse him) but he is still very strong on the lead.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

The Premack Principle for Dogs - FamilyEducation.com
probably explains it far better than I could. It's also used in Control Unleashed. Basically eat your veggies before you get dessert.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Helbo said:


> I've said previously - I don't care where it happened. Theres no excuse for the OP to not have full control of her dog. *If they can't get their dog to stop in his tracks on demand*, to give time to ask permission to greet people, then they shouldn't be off-lead. Period.
> 
> So what if this guy was walking through a dog park? All the dog parks I visit have actual signs saying that you're to pick up after your dog and that you must KEEP YOUR DOG UNDER CONTROL
> 
> At the end of the day I'm saying that the OP should be protecting their dog. I'm definitely not saying this guy was right for hitting the dog. But that the OP should have training in place to keep her lovely staffy away from crazies!


Apologies, I really haven't read all the posts but cannot understand why someone would go to a dog park then by suproised by dogs running around offlead 

I also do not know anyone who can get their dog to stop in it's tracks every, single time. Maybe people on here can & well done if this really is the case but I can honestly say that I have never met an owner who would be able to state this.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I also do not know anyone who can get their dog to stop in it's tracks every, single time. Maybe people on here can & well done if this really is the case but I can honestly say that I have never met an owner who would be able to state this.


I could do it with Shadow and Wolf. Wolf would drop on command no matter what he was doing or where he was, Shadow would stay no matter what although he would NOT lie down. Got around his lack of recall with this. Oh dog training was soooooo easy in those days, if I could do it anyone could. I think Rupert was sent to humble me :lol:  I'm hoping I can teach Spencer to stop on command no matter what he's doing.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> I could do it with Shadow and Wolf. Wolf would drop on command no matter what he was doing or where he was, Shadow would stay no matter what although he would NOT lie down. Got around his lack of recall with this. Oh dog training was soooooo easy in those days, if I could do it anyone could. I think Rupert was sent to humble me :lol:  I'm hoping I can teach Spencer to stop on command no matter what he's doing.


Can I send my two to you?!! 

I don't doubt that some people can have 100% recall every time in every situation but most people can't (ime), that's why we all have leads for our dogs.

I was speaking to a bloke at work regarding gundog training (he shoots in his spare time & has several dogs) & he said (for some reason) his 4yr old bitch took off after a deer the other week. She has never done this before & he was really shocked by it.

I think we do need to have common sense regarding our dogs, we do need to try & prevent incidents from occurring & take repsonsibility for our actions but we will all make mistakes.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Poke him in the eye with a stick? 

He was more aggressive than your dog ever was.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I also do not know anyone who can get their dog to stop in it's tracks every, single time. Maybe people on here can & well done if this really is the case but I can honestly say that I have never met an owner who would be able to state this.


Millie can - She was taught to in order to use a flexi lead safely. Once stopped I can slao get her to go into a 'down' position which she knows means she will be staying there for a few moments.

We have spent quite a bit of time working on 'sit' 'down' etc at a distance but is soooo useful once youve got the nack of it. Also coule be a life saver if for whatever reason you dont want tyour dog to run to you - Ie they end up on the other side of a road somehow / you dont want them panicing and running through a barbed wire fence when out on a walk etc.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

> Can I send my two to you?!!


Lol, I think I have enough with Spencer thanks :lol: I honestly don't know how I taught Shadow such a reliable stop and stay. Wolf was easy, your wish was his command so all it took was a "down" and he'd hit the deck. Shadow was more of a "what's in it for me?" type though. Unless stay was such a conditioned response that he automatically did it on hearing the command or something 

I don't believe there is 100% obedience though, we can train and train and proof all we like but I don't think you can ever guarantee a dog will always obey no matter what. They're living creatures, not robots.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Milliepoochie said:


> Millie can - She was taught to in order to use a flexi lead safely. Once stopped I can slao get her to go into a 'down' position which she knows means she will be staying there for a few moments.
> 
> We have spent quite a bit of time working on 'sit' 'down' etc at a distance but is soooo useful once youve got the nack of it. Also coule be a life saver if for whatever reason you dont want tyour dog to run to you - Ie they end up on the other side of a road somehow / you dont want them panicing and running through a barbed wire fence when out on a walk etc.


I'm really not being sarcastic or anything like that  but if your dog is 100% every single time why do you use a lead?

Someone on here while ago had many an angry post directed at her because she walked her dogs along near a road offlead. She argued that they were well trained & would not run off but people argued that they were dogs & may do this.

Same with keeping dogs leashed around frozen water, if your dog was so responsive then your wouldn't need to keep them leashed as there would be no fear of them every running on to the ice due to your ability to stop them in their tracks.

NB. I keep reading this & it does sound snotty - it's really not meant to be!!!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Surely the whole point of a fenced in, secure dog park, is that its there for dogs that have crappy recall, and to give them the chance to have a run around off lead and play and socialise with other dogs?

Quite frankly, if a non-doggy person enters an area *specifically* for dogs, then they havent a leg to stand on in the complaints department if a dog approaches them or their dog.

Surely common sense should be used with such a place and situation? I withdraw my previous comment about recalling tbh, now its apparent that it was a dog park, as in my eyes, you don't need, nor should all people be expected to have, 100% control.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I'm really not being sarcastic or anything like that  but if your dog is 100% every single time why do you use a lead?
> 
> Someone on here while ago had many an angry post directed at her because she walked her dogs along near a road offlead. She argued that they were well trained & would not run off but people argued that they were dogs & may do this.
> 
> ...


I didnt say she was 100% all the time lol and I cant control when she decides to have 'Zoomies' lol. I just find it really reqrding to learn new things and broaden our horizons - distance work such as sitting / down / wait etc was someothing I saw as a challange and means im not one of those flexi uses who is yanking there dogs back lol

I would *never* risk walking Millie near a road with no lead as I am very happy giving her freedom on a flexi lead and using voice commands to keep her in check - I have nothing to prove to anybody and no reason to not use a lead - Millies safety is my primary concern.

As for near frozen surfaces - Millie likes to walk on them  so would always be on a lead.

Your post wasnt taken as snotty at all lol


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Milliepoochie said:


> I didnt say she was 100% all the time lol and I cant control when she decides to have 'Zoomies' lol. I just find it really reqrding to learn new things and broaden our horizons - distance work such as sitting / down / wait etc was someothing I saw as a challange and means im not one of those flexi uses who is yanking there dogs back lol
> 
> I would *never* risk walking Millie near a road with no lead as I am very happy giving her freedom on a flexi lead and using voice commands to keep her in check - I have nothing to prove to anybody and no reason to not use a lead - Millies safety is my primary concern.
> 
> ...


LOL, am glad you didn't think it was snotty - it just didn't read well!  

I constantly practise recall, sits/downs at distances, wait, whistel stops, etc & yet still have a long way to go.

We went to the beach the other week & both dogs were offlead. If we got too near to other people & their dogs Roxy went back on her lead. She was being so good & responsive that day that we got a bit too relaxed & next thing she legged off to another dog who was playing ball with his owners.

I understand that for most people having a big GSD running towards them is not their idea of fun but the couple were lovely about it. They even threw a ball for her to join (which doesn't help her learn not to run off & join in games with other dogs but they could have been annoyed with me). Luckily they were of the opinion that most dogs were running around offlead so weren't worried by Roxy's 'enthusiam'

Having said that I would not take her to a park where there were children or other dogs running around in very close proximity because I know I could not recall her. I also would not take her there leashed as that's when she becomes reactive so if another dog ran over to her she would kick off & upset everyine else who was having a nice time.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Apologies, I really haven't read all the posts but cannot understand why someone would go to a dog park then by suproised by dogs running around offlead
> 
> I also do not know anyone who can get their dog to stop in it's tracks every, single time. Maybe people on here can & well done if this really is the case but I can honestly say that I have never met an owner who would be able to state this.


I could shout "down" to Sammy from anywhere and he would go straight down. Made me feel really clever, but I might add that he came back when he felt like it or when he saw me fussing another dog! I don't believe any dog is 100% perfect in any situation. I can trust Ferdie 100% not to run away and never to jump up anybody, but recall? Forget it. He comes back if I walk away, not otherwise.



Nonnie said:


> Surely the whole point of a fenced in, secure dog park, is that its there for dogs that have crappy recall, and to give them the chance to have a run around off lead and play and socialise with other dogs?
> 
> Quite frankly, if a non-doggy person enters an area *specifically* for dogs, then they havent a leg to stand on in the complaints department if a dog approaches them or their dog.
> 
> Surely common sense should be used with such a place and situation? I withdraw my previous comment about recalling tbh, now its apparent that it was a dog park, as in my eyes, you don't need, nor should all people be expected to have, 100% control.


Thank you. That is precisely what I have been trying to get across all along.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Even in a dog park I try to stop mine from running over to people. We have many elderly who walk their small dogs but really could not sustain a playful jump from one of my larger friendly dogs. I don't agree that he hit your dog but maybe he had an experience where the owner said the dog was friendly and it wasn't.

I would talk to him nicely next time you see him maybe just maybe you can change his reaction...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

The original post just said "park" it became "dog park" later in the thread - someone from same area as OP asked where it was as they would be interested in going, unless I have missed it that hasn't been answered


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> The original post just said "park" it became "dog park" later in the thread - someone from same area as OP asked where it was as they would be interested in going, unless I have missed it that hasn't been answered


No it hasn't. There are very few actual dog parks in the UK and I am sure we would all be interested in knowing where they all are.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

We have a dog park near me, its not really a dog park to be fair it's where EVERYONE seems to go and just let there dogs of.

I think it's awful your dog was hit, but, i must admit, if my dogs ANY of them ran up to someone especially with a child i would be mortified to be frank. Not everyone recognizes dog parks or notices signs (as obvious as you might think it is) the park i've been going to since i was little I've never noticed the sign on the gates saying to keep your dog on a lead that's maximum a certain length till the other week. As horrible as it sounds (im not sure it will sound horribletbh but meh) if i have my godson with me I'm wary of dogs just bounding over to us, that would be ANY dog. 

I hope your dogs okay.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RockRomantic said:


> We have a dog park near me, its not really a dog park to be fair it's where EVERYONE seems to go and just let there dogs of.
> 
> I think it's awful your dog was hit, but, i must admit, if my dogs ANY of them ran up to someone especially with a child i would be mortified to be frank. Not everyone recognizes dog parks or notices signs (as obvious as you might think it is) the park i've been going to since i was little I've never noticed the sign on the gates saying to keep your dog on a lead that's maximum a certain length till the other week. As horrible as it sounds (im not sure it will sound horribletbh but meh) if i have my godson with me I'm wary of dogs just bounding over to us, that would be ANY dog.
> 
> I hope your dogs okay.


Just the point. A dog park is designated especially for dogs and is fenced in. a park where everybody walks their dogs is not a dog park.

There are very few dog parks in the UK. The one I use is clearly marked "off lead dog play area" and is fenced in. We are still waiting to hear which sort of park the incident occurred in.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Think of a different scenario - you are in a restaurant clearly signed that well behaved children are welcome so there you are in your finest having a meal. Someones well behaved darling approaches your table and puts its chocolate covered hands on you. Thats not the parents fault at all, its 100% your fault for going somewhere children are permitted - just because your idea of a well behaved child & yours differ makes no difference, its your fault for going


Would it be yours or the parents fault then if you poked said kid in the eye with a fork???

I AVOID places that let kids in. Kids are kids and should be allowed to act as such. So when me and the OH go out for a meal, we do choose places that don't let kids in. However, should we have my friends kids we'll go to Whaky Wharehouse.

So if you don't like dogs, don't go to a dog park. Not rocket science really.

When I see kids both mine go back on the lead regardless, to avoid this kind of issue.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Even at a designated dog park you will get people, even doggie people, who do not like certain breeds of dog, I mean there is a member on here convinced anything bigger than a Chi is a savage killer, and they have dogs. Do not assume that because you are in a dog park that all the humans there will be accepting of your dogs advances.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> Even at a designated dog park you will get people, even doggie people, who do not like certain breeds of dog, I mean there is a member on here convinced anything bigger than a Chi is a savage killer, and they have dogs. Do not assume that because you are in a dog park that all the humans there will be accepting of your dogs advances.


Most people with that attitude wouldn't go to a dog park though, would they? They would be afraid of all the bigger dogs.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Most people with that attitude wouldn't go to a dog park though, would they? They would be afraid of all the bigger dogs.


Yeah but if you just didnt like Staff'd because you read the daily fail and believed it to be gospel, and this park was the nearest to you etc etc then you would go, in the hope that folk kept their dogs under a bit of control.... well i would


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> Yeah but if you just didnt like Staff'd because you read the daily fail and believed it to be gospel, and this park was the nearest to you etc etc then you would go, in the hope that folk kept their dogs under a bit of control.... well i would


I can honestly say that the people who go to the dog park that we use couldn't care less what breed a dog is. And all the dogs I see there are only interested in playing with the other dogs, all except Ferdie that is who wants fuss from the people!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Eighteen pages and we still haven't been told where this dog park is. I am beginning to wonder if it was a dog park or not.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Eighteen pages and we still haven't been told where this dog park is. I am beginning to wonder if it was a dog park or not.


I was then about to say quite frustratingly the OP seems to have long gone from this thread.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Eighteen pages and we still haven't been told where this dog park is. I am beginning to wonder if it was a dog park or not.


Just seen OP has a thread in GC asking about deleting of account.


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## BexyBoo (Jan 31, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Just seen OP has a thread in GC asking about deleting of account.


Has she i cant find it? maybe shes getting annoyed that she just wanted to rant but instead it started a big disagreement ooppss 

cant believe its gone on for 18 pages


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

BexyBoo said:


> Has she i cant find it? maybe shes getting annoyed that she just wanted to rant but instead it started a big disagreement ooppss
> 
> cant believe its gone on for 18 pages


I don't think it was a disagreement just a difference of opinions - some people agree with OP some don't, thats life


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I don't think it was a disagreement just a difference of opinions - some people agree with OP some don't, thats life


I agree - Its what public forums are about - not much use if everybody agrees with everybody.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I agree - Its what public forums are about - not much use if everybody agrees with everybody.


Agree - and there hasn't been a proper name calling, mud slinging all out insulting each other thread for some time. shame


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

OP hasn't gone anywhere - in fact, they're getting another SBT

Unusual Names Pls


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## BexyBoo (Jan 31, 2012)

agreed .

she didnt go back and answer questions on her previous post's so i dont think anyone will get any here eaither xxx


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

D'uh - just seen the OP is from Blackpool. 

So I can answer for her

There are NO DESIGNATED DOG PARKS in the whole of the Fylde Coast! So she had her dog off-lead in a regular park or field.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Helbo said:


> D'uh - just seen the OP is from Blackpool.
> 
> So I can answer for her
> 
> *There are NO DESIGNATED DOG PARKS in the whole of the Fylde Coast*! So she had her dog off-lead in a regular park or field.


That changes things IMO....................
While I don't agree with anyone being violent towards any animal, if these people were in a public place then they have every right to be upset if they get mobbed by an out of control dog


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

It also appears the OP is a fake to some extent

The picture of Bentley is actually not her dog, if she even has one.

Picture of 'Bentley' is here


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Helbo said:


> It also appears the OP is a fake to some extent
> 
> The picture of Bentley is actually not her dog, if she even has one.
> 
> Picture of 'Bentley' is here


Wow.
Good bit of detective work there, I wonder what the OP has to say about that


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## Bella Beagle Mum (Jan 24, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> That changes things IMO....................
> While I don't agree with anyone being violent towards any animal, if these people were in a public place then they have every right to be upset if they get mobbed by an out of control dog


I completely agree!

I was originally supportive as I thought "fair do's" in a designated dog area I would expect dogs off lead and some of them could be in training so may approach.......however if they were actually in a "normal" park, I can completely understand someone not wanting any breed of dog they don't know to approach a child. :hand:


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Wow.
> Good bit of detective work there, I wonder what the OP has to say about that


OP has deleted photos from account and logged off.

I dont understand why people cant just tell the truth


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> OP has deleted photos from account and logged off.
> 
> I dont understand why people cant just tell the truth


Me neither:nonod:
Why would anyone want to steal pictures of someone else's dogs, it's really creepy IMO


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

also asking to delete whole account too, weird!!!!


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## vickieb (Nov 22, 2010)

Milliepoochie said:


> OP has deleted photos from account and logged off.
> 
> I dont understand why people cant just tell the truth


and the thread is closed......

something quite sinister about people that make stuff up...... im clearly naive as I thought everyone was real, and their dogs where theirs......

 dont like it


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Helbo said:


> It also appears the OP is a fake to some extent
> 
> The picture of Bentley is actually not her dog, if she even has one.
> 
> Picture of 'Bentley' is here


This is the same as the pic she's uploaded as 'My Blue Staff Bentley' in the gallery section here

Total fake it seems


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## BexyBoo (Jan 31, 2012)

wow really confused! why would someone come on here and lie? she was saying in a new thread that she was just gonna get a puppy?


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

guess this can be closed now too


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