# will a bitch stand if not in season ? silent season, split season



## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

hi people, just a bit of advice needed ! 
my 2 yr old stafford bitch seasoned in december, my 4 yr old stafford bitch is on day 7 of her season now.
i went out in the garden this morning to find my 7 month old stafford male and my 2 yr old stafford tied, only she isnt in season ! they have tied again since has anyone had any experiences similar ? what i really want to know is, is it possible for a pregnancy to come about under these circumstances, will a bitch even stand and allow a male to mate her if she isnt in season ? ive heard and read about silent seasons and split seasons ?? really puzzled, :blink:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

t00ts said:


> hi people, just a bit of advice needed !
> my 2 yr old stafford bitch seasoned in december, my 4 yr old stafford bitch is on day 7 of her season now.
> i went out in the garden this morning to find my 7 month old stafford male and my 2 yr old stafford tied, only she isnt in season ! they have tied again since has anyone had any experiences similar ? what i really want to know is, is it possible for a pregnancy to come about under these circumstances, will a bitch even stand and allow a male to mate her if she isnt in season ? ive heard and read about silent seasons and split seasons ?? really puzzled, :blink:


Im no expert, but I know females can have a split season, ie seem to have and go through a normal season, only to come into season again awhile later.
Threy can still fall apparently on a split season. You can too get silent heats its also true apparently. I have also heard that bitches can become synchronised with their seasons so if its true, and your other bitch is in season then sounds like that could be whats happened.

Again from what Ive read it seems that bitches mostly only stand for a male in the fertile period, and often flirt and encourage during this time, some can be quite aggressive and wont entertain the male when they are not.

As said Im not a breeder so have no personal experience, but all in all I would say its a good posibility that she may get pregnant. Personally I would speak to your vet. You can have a mismate injection called Alizin, the sooner you get it done the better, If you leave it and wait and see the longer you leave it the chances of side effects increase apparently more so after day 25 I believe.

Not all bitches of course are textbook, but from the textbook and info Ive read in the past its possible.


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

thank you for your reply, i have called my vet and they have said it could happen ! the breeding that has taken place was planned for later in the yr when my stud dog is a little older, although its not ideal, now it has happened i will just be making sure he doesnt get anywhere near my bitch that is in season, and i will just see what happens with the bitch he has mated...dont want 2 litters of puppies on my hands ! i am planning to get his semen tested to see if he is definitely producing sperm now, as he is only 7 months..feel a bit cheated actually as i was obviously keeping an eye on him with the wrong bitch !!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

prob best if you got the females spayed with an intact male in the house.

i see you are a breeder though so out of the question!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

t00ts said:


> thank you for your reply, i have called my vet and they have said it could happen ! the breeding that has taken place was planned for later in the yr when my stud dog is a little older, although its not ideal, now it has happened i will just be making sure he doesnt get anywhere near my bitch that is in season, and i will just see what happens with the bitch he has mated...dont want 2 litters of puppies on my hands ! i am planning to get his semen tested to see if he is definitely producing sperm now, as he is only 7 months..feel a bit cheated actually as i was obviously keeping an eye on him with the wrong bitch !!


Are the dogs KC registered, and are you planning on advertising them and operating a waiting list? The only reason I ask is that Ive known a couple of people each with a litter of staffs and ended up having problems selling them.

The first guys, someone I occasional talked to where I walk the dogs wasnt KC reg. She had a litter a 18mths/2 years before and they had sold. The new litter was born and he had people leave deposits, even then one was still unsold and when they were old enough to go, the people who had left 2 of the deposits didnt end up having them and he couldnt sell a total of 3 half the litter. They ended up going to the RSPCA.

The other litter, (this breeder had bred before also and sold them) this time around were KC registered as her girl and the dad on this occasion was registered too. Last I saw her as she was someone I knew rather then a close friend they were over 8 weeks old and still no buyers, even reducing them to non KC reg price.
Dont know if its different where you are but it might be wise to make sure there are homes lined up. There are a lot of pups in rescues too I noticed, just thought I would mention it as looks like it might not be the best time to breed and sell at the moment.


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

my 2 bitches and male are kc, all health tested and good examples of the breed. i have bred once before but was planning this to be my last breeding to concentrate on other things...obviously this has caught me unaware..as there are no signs of season at all...but if a pregnancy does arise from this, she will definitely spayed as i cant control what i cant see..


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I have known of one occasion where someone found their (believe both neutered) male and female tied in the garden - very frightening for all concerned - but such events are very rare.

As the dogs are entire though I would get her checked out with the vet - although the dog is young, where you go with it I guess is up to you - if the breed has health tests that can't be done until a year old I would imagine that would be a big deciding factor.

Your boy of course will now probably develop a taste for it particularly having caught a lady so young (I have heard of others where the young ones tend to be a little more, um, driven shall we say ).

All these accidental matings, and there's me, every health test imaginable done, can't get a mating between two of mine on my own, as my bitch decided to come into season and be ready for mating just as my OH was having / recuperating from surgery


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

thank you swarthy, i will definitely be taking her to the vet in the next few days to get her health and condition checked...and i will take her for a scan to confirm either way in about 30 days...
was defo planned for the future just silly me didnt realise he would be so 'on it' LOL he seems pretty damned pleased with himself ive gotta say :smile:
both are clear from birth as both have unaffected parents, so im not concerned there...


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

t00ts said:


> thank you swarthy, i will definitely be taking her to the vet in the next few days to get her health and condition checked...and i will take her for a scan to confirm either way in about 30 days...
> was defo planned for the future just silly me didnt realise he would be so 'on it' LOL he seems pretty damned pleased with himself ive gotta say :smile:
> both are clear from birth as both have unaffected parents, so im not concerned there...


I am 99% certain the same rule doesn't apply to males below the age of 1 (litters from bitches mated before they are 12 months can't be KC registered) - but it might be worth checking with the KC just to be on the safe side.

It's not an ideal situation - but if the dogs are health-tested and the deed already done it sounds like you are in a position to make an informed choice - sounds like he's going to need a chastity belt in the future though


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

not ideal at all, but as you said, its done and yep, will be strapping him up little buggar he is !!! 
will give kc a call tomorrow to check that, i will be devastated if not..:cryin:


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## Bullymastiff (May 6, 2010)

Its only bitches that they wont register the pups under 1 year old, males there is no age limit on, so wont be a problem there.


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

she will be booked in for tuesday, things i have read and been brought to my attention by my friend makes this possibly dangerous for my bitch and obviously she is my priority, and given that she has had a silent season that i cant predict or control, she will be spayed also. thank you all for your posts and advice...:smile:


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

Congreve502 said:


> Darling....


 and this means..?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

t00ts said:


> and this means..?


dont worry its just a spammer

really pleased to hear you'll be getting your bitch spayed by the way


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

t00ts said:


> she will be booked in for tuesday, things i have read and been brought to my attention by my friend makes this possibly dangerous for my bitch and obviously she is my priority, and given that she has had a silent season that i cant predict or control, she will be spayed also. thank you all for your posts and advice...:smile:


Somethings unfortuanately are beyond our control sometimes, and do catch us completely by surprise and this has been one of those things. At least you have give it a lot of thought and made a responsible decision, which Im sure I and all the members will aplaud you for. Unfortuanately its not the case for some dogs going by the posts we get.

Just to say hope everything goes well, and your girl will be OK, Im sure that she will with you as an owner looking out for her.


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

thank you, i do always try to do best by my dogs...they are my babies and i love them to bits..
i have quite an open mind and there are some things that disturb me also, sadly people put their own gain before the health of their dogs ! i too at first thought 'oh well, earlier than id planned..hey ho see what happens' simply cause she is 2, old enough..but i didnt think of the complications of him being so young !
i was then told if he wasnt producing properly being so young, and she only had one that could be very dangerous for her, i could never risk that, and i thought when the time is right id have one litter from her, but now i dont know when she is right, so i cant control it and this could happen again...too many things out of my control and too many risks...first and foremost she is our family pet, as are all of our dogs and we just love them dearly...sorry to waffle, just thought if anyone in a similar situation reads this it might help them to decide the best and right thing to do..i was originally making uninformed decisions...now i am informed there really is only one safe option..


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

t00ts said:


> thank you, i do always try to do best by my dogs...they are my babies and i love them to bits..
> i have quite an open mind and there are some things that disturb me also, sadly people put their own gain before the health of their dogs ! i too at first thought 'oh well, earlier than id planned..hey ho see what happens' simply cause she is 2, old enough..but i didnt think of the complications of him being so young !
> i was then told if he wasnt producing properly being so young, and she only had one that could be very dangerous for her, i could never risk that, and i thought when the time is right id have one litter from her, but now i dont know when she is right, so i cant control it and this could happen again...too many things out of my control and too many risks...first and foremost she is our family pet, as are all of our dogs and we just love them dearly...sorry to waffle, just thought if anyone in a similar situation reads this it might help them to decide the best and right thing to do..i was originally making uninformed decisions...now i am informed there really is only one safe option..


Suppose it all came as a bit of a shock really. Still thats dogs for you, as they say dogs will be dogs Best laid planss and all that. I suppose if you were going to breed anyway then at first it would have made sense to maybe leave things be, as you say though once you go into it, and find out the real implications its not always as straight forward as you first think.

Keep us posted how you are all doing. Hopefully you may stick around or look in from time to time, as you say you could probably contribute a lot.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Just reading this thread out of interest, what would be wrong with the litter if the boy is 7 months and the girl is 2 years old? What would be the reason not to continue?

For cats its best to leave the boys to over a year of age or they can have a load of problems (not the actual kittens but the studs) But some people do like to brag that their stud mated and produced kittens at 5 months of age


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

t00ts said:


> i was then told if he wasnt producing properly being so young, and she only had one that could be very dangerous for her, i could never risk that, and i thought when the time is right id have one litter from her, but now i dont know when she is right, so i cant control it and this could happen again...too many things out of my control and too many risks...first and foremost she is our family pet, as are all of our dogs and we just love them dearly...sorry to waffle, just thought if anyone in a similar situation reads this it might help them to decide the best and right thing to do..i was originally making uninformed decisions...now i am informed there really is only one safe option..


Taking aside the rights and wrongs of the situation - what is done is done (and there by the grace of god.........)

If there are health-tests for the breed that can't be done until he is 1 year old or older, then yes, I can see the argument. If there are conditions that don't manifest themselves until 2 or 3, then yes, again, I can understand the problem

Conversely, if neither of the above apply, I don't see why there should be a problem based solely on his age, I've seen the odd litter with "young studs" who have produced very nicely.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Taking aside the rights and wrongs of the situation - what is done is done (and there by the grace of god.........)
> 
> If there are health-tests for the breed that can't be done until he is 1 year old or older, then yes, I can see the argument. If there are conditions that don't manifest themselves until 2 or 3, then yes, again, I can understand the problem
> 
> Conversely, if neither of the above apply, I don't see why there should be a problem based solely on his age, I've seen the odd litter with "young studs" who have produced very nicely.


thats answered my question above what you posted! :laugh: 
so there would be no problem with a young stud and older girl? I did wonder why the OP was going for mismate if there was no problem and all health tests are done etc.


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

what has been brought to my attention, and makes sense to me is if the male has only just started producing sperm (which is likely as he is only a youngun) sometimes there isnt a good amount, meaning she may only have a couple of puppies..this can make them harder for her to give birth to and she isnt a very big dog anyway..obviously i dont want her to be put in danger by this..


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

t00ts said:


> what has been brought to my attention, and makes sense to me is if the male has only just started producing sperm (which is likely as he is only a youngun) sometimes there isnt a good amount, meaning she may only have a couple of puppies..this can make them harder for her to give birth to and she isnt a very big dog anyway..obviously i dont want her to be put in danger by this..


Ahhh that can make sense then, I always hope for litters of 3+ as 1-2 is always too small and can = c-section as they are too big 

Is there anyway to know if he has just started too produce? Or is that the normal age for them to produce sperm?


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

they can start to produce from 6 months, i have thought about sperm testing, thought about letting them again, thought about just seeing if she is (the vet said its unlikely) and continuing but theres just too many iffs buts and maybes when im toying with her health should she end up needing a c/s..
the chances are she isnt pregnant, but under those circumstances, to me, its not worth the risk as she is my priority.. :001_unsure:


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## t00ts (Mar 2, 2012)

she had the mismate today and has the second tomorrow, she was such a good girl, even though the vet said it stings she didnt wince or even move..so proud of my baby...:biggrin:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

t00ts said:


> she had the mismate today and has the second tomorrow, she was such a good girl, even though the vet said it stings she didnt wince or even move..so proud of my baby...:biggrin:


Glad it all went OK and hopefully it will be the same tomorrow hope she is OK, she should be alright from what Ive read because its been given early.


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