# Working full-time, whilst looking after a puppy? I'm sorry, this is really ranty.



## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Surely there are some people on here who have adopted puppies whilst working full-time? 

I'm aware that this is not an ideal situation from the puppy's point of view, and that there is a vast amount of criticism levied at people who work whilst owning puppies (or dogs). However that essentially means that puppy-owning is a pastime which can only be enjoyed by those too wealthy to need to work (since owing a dog is really expensive and requires lots of time)?

On this forum I have seen a decent amount of guilt-tripping those who cannot spend (almost) 24 hours per day with their puppy or dog, along with not-so-subtle hints that "your dog will be really miserable", "it's going to have major SA", "it will be impossible to housetrain it", "it will become vicious due to lack of human contact", "it will become a delinquent" etc... 

To me, this also sounds a lot like the kind of criticisms levied at working-mothers ("your child will grow up not loving you and be undisciplined") , and in particular those who are familiar with attachment-parenting ("unless you wear your baby for 24 hours per day in a sling around your tummy, you're not a good parent and your child will not love you"). Clearly the last two statements are absurd and unfounded, however all the doggie-related statements continue to be thrown at those who do not have the luxury of spending the day with their dog(s). Where is the proof that the dog will inevitably end up a miserable delinquent? 

I may be much mistaken - perhaps all puppy-owners do have the ability to spend all day everyday with their dogs. However I suspect there are many people who have raised adorable, well-behaved, loving dogs whilst working full-time -yet, perhaps do not like to admit it, for fear of being called "cruel" by ultra-left-wing animal lovers. (I apologise if this is the wrong stereotype - I'm referrring to the PETA types who choose to vegan-feed their cats (yup, that's a PETA policy) and who are against any forms of animal-testing, despite the stringent regulations on animal use in laboratories. There might be a word for these people, but I'm not sure what it is) . 

From what I have seen on various online discussions, the typical advice given to someone who has to go to work whilst looking after a puppy is to rehome the puppy. Since there are so many homeless dogs and puppies out there, to me it seems utterly pointless to make another one homeless just because their owner works; the puppy already has a loving home. 

I absolutely adore my puppy, and he is thoroughly spoiled (as all dogs should be). I do not currently work full-time, however I'm really shocked at all the online anger and criticism aimed at people who do work full-time and who own puppies (and dogs). 

NB: for the purpose of this diatribe, I'm defining a puppy as "over 8 weeks, but under a year" - since it would be a bit foolish to leave an under-8 week by itself (except for incredibly short periods of time).


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

You may want to chat to a few Rescues about the reasons all their young dogs are handed in?


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> You may want to chat to a few Rescues about the reasons all their young dogs are handed in?


Why are all their young dogs handed in?


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Working and having a puppy/dog can and does work.. if you're prepared to put the effort in when at home.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Not quite sure what the context is to this thread, but certainly working full time can be a barrier to bringing up a puppy properly. If you don't have a job where you can nip home on your lunch to toilet and play with your puppy then yes it's cruel and you will have a lot of work on your hands. I got a puppy when my OH was going to be home all day as I've always worked full time. I'd only ever get another puppy if I was in a similar circumstance, or if I had the money to pay someone to come in during the day. Even now I don't leave Kes alone all day and she's grown up and has no SA etc, I still walk her for an hour before work and pay someone to come in during the day. I could technically leave her alone for 9 hours at a stretch, but what I come home to is a very wound up bouncing off the walls dog which is the last thing you need when you've had a hard day, and that's why so many people give up and hand in their dogs to rescue.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

mmmm I agree with you to some degree and I do think that with hard work and a willingness to compromise on a lot of things (eg always straight home after work - never able to go to last minute drinks / nights out etc) that it is possible to work FT and have a happy health dog ....... 

BUT I personally don't think it's fair to leave a pup or very young dog for that length of time when working FT (unless you're maybe in a relationship where you both work shifts and the dog won't be left long)

I am with Maisie all the time (apart from when I'm at work!) - I don't go out in the evenings unless I can take her (wouldn't be fair) and rarely go out at the weekends either - they're out time for extra long walks

I was supposed to be at a wedding reception last night ...... Maisie wasn't well and we ended up at the vets ..... you do have to be prepared to drop everything and put them first 

I do think rescues need to be a bit more willing to rehome to FT workers - it's absolutely not for ALL dogs BUT for some (especially if they've been left for periods in their previous home) it's absolutely fine - it's about matching people / dogs up and not having blanket policies that exclude huge chunks of the population


Many people turned down by rescues want a dog and end up getting a pup - and I truly believe this then contributes to the ads (and we've all seen them - there were around 20 new ones on my local Gum*tree today) of pups from 11 weeks (so they've had it a couple of weeks ) to 7 months+ as they can't cope with the amount of work involved with a pup ... but they may well have been OK with an older dog


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I think it obviously really depends on circumstance and stimulation when there isn't anyone around.

Much like a human could go stir crazy if left with their own company for many hours a day without anything at all to do, it would be the same for a dog.

When I got Harvey, I worked full time but had a neighbour who would pop in several times a day and spend quite a bit of time with him.

If you can provide lots of stimulation for a dog so that it doesn't get mentally bored, then I think it can work but owners really do need to be realistic and understand that how much effort you put into your dog can absolutely have a huge impact on how that puppy develops into an adult.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

You can't really generalize as everyone's situation is different. 

If you take a normal working day, say 8-5 or 9-6, I think most of us can agree that it would be cruel to leave a puppy for 9 hours alone. Especially when you consider that most people do not have the luxury of working close to home so add on travel time to that. 

But, if the full time worker took a few weeks holiday to acclimatize the pup and get it used to being left alone gradually, THEN employed someone to come in and spend an hour or so with the pup in the day, then that could work. Then when the dog was older, a dog walker could be hired, day care could be looked at etc. 

Some breeds of dog cope better with periods of time alone than others. There are certain breeds of dog I would avoid if I was going to be out for most of the day; namely very active working breeds. My Lab and Yorkie would have had no problem with that routine, whereas my Slovak would struggle with that as a puppy - she was just too active to spend hours doing nothing.

So if you consider your breed choice carefully and accept that you are going to have to spend money to accommodate the dogs needs, then yes of course you can have a dog and work full time.


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## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

I work full time and have brought up 2 well rounded very happy puppies. However I work 2 mins from home so came home lunchtimes and other half finishes anywhere between 2-3:30. 

It can work as long as you put the effort in. Once im home thats my dogs time and I sacrifice other things to spend time with them ( as I should do, they are my responsibility) 

on the other hand tho yes it is cruel to leave crated all day and then ignore them of a evening.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I would never sell a puppy to someone who worked full time away from home.

A bit off topic but related. Wasn't there a tv program this week about dogs being left all day and suffering. I saw it advertised and meant to watch it. Can anyone remember when it was one or what it was called?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Lizz1155 said:


> On this forum I have seen a decent amount of guilt-tripping those who cannot spend (almost) 24 hours per day with their puppy or dog, along with not-so-subtle hints that "your dog will be really miserable", "it's going to have major SA", "it will be impossible to housetrain it", "it will become vicious due to lack of human contact", "it will become a delinquent" etc...
> .


wow, lots of sweeping generalisations in your post!! I think there are quite a few full time workers on here who dont spend 24hrs a day with their dog!
Having said that I think it is selfish to get a very young puppy and expect it to spend a full workday alone. Most people will take time off, get a pet sitter or have some sort of arrangement for them when young. (I had a friend take mine for some of my nightshifts until they were 6mths).
Dog ownership isnt just for the wealthy who dont need to work but I think you have to consider what is best for the dog. When I worked day shifts I just didnt have a dog!! It took me years before I was in a position to accomadate one.

No doubt I will be hung, drawn and quartered now though as my dogs are going to have to spend 14hrs on their own for the next 2 nights. Coz I have to work and so does my dogsitting friend!! The dogs will survive though as they have each other for company and me for the other 5 nights and 7 days!!


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> wow, lots of sweeping generalisations in your post!! I think there are quite a few full time workers on here who dont spend 24hrs a day with their dog!


My apologies for the sweeping generalisations, however that is the impression that I've been given from here, Dogforums and Champdogs. It was a bit difficult to convey that impression without making generalisations. It's just a relief to know that FT workers with dogs actually do exist, since somehow they don't tend to appear in discussions.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I would not take on a puppy because I do not want the responsibility and hard work that it entails. I do not want to be tied to the intense toilet training, stimulation, etc. that is involved in bringing up a happy puppy. 

Personally, I believe that it is unfair to get a puppy in the full knowledge that it is going to be left alone for hours on end because the owner is unable to get home for short spells throughout the day or make alternative arrangements that would be equally suitable.

I waited until I was around most of every day before I took on a rescued dog. That was partly for the benefit of the dog, who may or may not have needed lots of rehabilitation and also for my own benefit - why create hassle for myself?

As it was, he had SA (not surprising he had abandonment issues ) so I had to spend some days/weeks slowly getting him used to be left until he was happy and settled. That entailed leaving him for 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, etc. building up over a period of days/weeks until he can now be left happily for 5 hours. If I was committed to a full time job, I wonder how I could have done that? Just going through the front door and hoping for the best really was not an option for me. 

I wanted the dog to be able to fit easily into my life and not create any issues.

Just because we want something NOW, doesn't mean we should necessarily have it.

Having said all the above, I am not going to tell someone that they cannot have a puppy because they work full-time, but they should not be surprised if a lot of people do  

And, perhaps a homeless puppy or dog would be better off in a loving and committed household, even if the owners do work full time - on the proviso that adequate arrangements can be made to accommodate that.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Re your query......
1. "..the puppy barked all the time and upset the neighbours...
2. the puppy cried...(see "1)
3. the puppy ate the walls / floor / furniture...
4. the puppy was shut in a crate and ate its own poo and trod in it
5. the puppy didn`t learn to use the garden before I left and pooed in the house.
6. the puppy couldn`t hold its wee for 6 hours and I got fed up at the mess
7. the puppy got ill and I couldn`t look after it
8. the puppy wasn`t socialised because it only went out in the dark for 6 months of the year 
9 I was too tired after an 8 hour working day and an hour commute to take the ruddy thing out...
etc etc etc


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Re your query......
> 1. "..the puppy barked all the time and upset the neighbours...
> 2. the puppy cried...(see "1)
> 3. the puppy ate the walls / floor / furniture...
> ...


they are people that would not look after or want a pup even if they are home all day though.

I was working full time when I got some of my pups but I had other dogs thatwere kennelled with an outside run so it worked fine. Looking back they probably did not get house trained quite so quickly as my current dogs when I am home most of the time but they were quite acceptable. Evenings and weekends were devoted to the dogs and they got a long walk in the morning before I went to work.
It worked fine for me anyway and I had happy well balanced dogs. More difficult if the dog is just an extra in your life and you do not want to spend the time with it.
A friend who works full time doing caring and cleaning jobs so is mobile took her pup in the car with her from day one and she was fine with that and house trained in a normal length of time.

There is more than one way to skin a cat but not every way works for every person and dog combination.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Blitz said:


> they are people that would not look after or want a pup even if they are home all day though.
> 
> I was working full time when I got some of my pups but I had other dogs thatwere kennelled with an outside run so it worked fine. Looking back they probably did not get house trained quite so quickly as my current dogs when I am home most of the time but they were quite acceptable. Evenings and weekends were devoted to the dogs and they got a long walk in the morning before I went to work.
> It worked fine for me anyway and I had happy well balanced dogs. More difficult if the dog is just an extra in your life and you do not want to spend the time with it.
> ...


A lot of those issues could be stopped with supervision and training and it is prominently working people who will these kind of issues no?

I will never agree with someone working full time 9-5 bringing home an 8 week old puppy without taking time off work and hiring dog walker/visitor, doggy day care, friends or family etc. what's the point? You miss all the best bits and crucial points of the pups young life you may as well rescue.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

I personally wouldn't get a puppy while working full time unless I had help or could afford care for it so they get their needs met, they require such a lot of training & socializing and its difficult to do that when nobodys home.
When they have learnt to toilet indoors or have developed behavior issues and tore house up many become unwanted, If people weren't so selfish they'd definitely be less young dogs sat in in rescue so totally get why most rescues won't home pups to people that aren't home most of the time. Many do home adult dogs to workers (I'm one of them) but then they can't just hand dogs out to save selfish folk buying pups ( plenty private rehomes available?) when those dogs may not be suitable to be left hours and remember those that don't cope well tend to be swiftly returned which isn't good for the dog or rescue trying to find space when adopter wants rid ASAP, so can understand those that choose to be selective.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I had three dogs from young pups and worked all day away from home - in fact for a bit of Bess's young life this was so, except she was only left a couple of days and we'd timed in so my son was at home most of the time. 

For the others I popped home at lunchtime for the first few months, and then they were left for 8/9 hours. 

None of them barked or whined. They all had a kitchen or utility room to play in. 

On the days I was home they fell into their normal pattern of sleeping all day. 

They were well rounded dogs with no anxieties. 

It can work, and I totally agree with your state,ent that dog owning shouldn't just be for the rich, people with a second income, pensioners or the unemployed. 

The Internet wasn't around when I got my first dog - and forums weren't around when I got my next two. I didn't worry about it - and neither did the dogs! 

When I have to leave Bess now- she just runs into the hall when she sees me get her biscuits out, and when I come back I often have to wake her up from her crate. (She's not crated, but can go in there as she likes). I do feel more guilty nowadays (thanks to the Internet), but on the odd occasion I have to leave her for a day she doesn't seem to care at all. I'm not sure she has a concept of time.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Lizz1155 said:


> I absolutely adore my puppy, and he is thoroughly spoiled (as all dogs should be). I do not currently work full-time, however I'm really shocked at all the online anger and criticism aimed at people who do work full-time and who own puppies (and dogs).


Actually, I understand that. People get defensive and frustrated by the barrage of criticism and the sneery implication that they are selfish, uncaring, unfeeling owners because they need to work to put a roof over their own and their dog's head.

I used to be horribly judgmental of full time working owners myself. Why have a dog if you can't look after it and the poor creature sits alone at home day in, day out?

However, I have meanwhile met many FTW owners whose dog has arguably a more interesting life than a great many who are at home all day. Example: One chap I know has a young BC. As he is away all day, he walks the dog 2 hours in the morning ( with a miners lamp on his head since it is still dark!), then he walks him for another 2 or 3 hours when he comes back. Every weekend they are off hiking and camping together...and whenever he is not at work, the dog is with him. Everywhere. In the pub, at concerts, you name it - they are inseperable. BTW, the BC is 2 years old, not a puppy.

Other FTW maybe don't go to those extremes but they enlist family, friends, paid sitters, dog walkers, neighbours to bridge their absence.

In no way is a dog like that neglected or has a diminished quality of life because the owner works.

However.....

.......leaving a puppy alone all day, 5 days a week WITHOUT an additional support system IS negligent. Never mind how much the owner insists they love their dog. What does "love" mean in this context? "I am sick of coming home to an empty house and I need somebody to wait for me and make me feel loved?". Fair enough...but what about the dog's needs?

Love alone is not enough. Not by far. Nor are good intentions.

The reality of FT work is that the owner takes dog for a quick trundle before work, is then absen all day, the dog bored and lonely, the owner may return with a screaming headache or a stinking cold, there is nothing in the fridge, bills still need sorting out, housework and laundry need to be tackled, its lashing with rain outside......so tired owner takes bouncing off the wall pup for a quick 30 minute walk, feeds the dog, maybe throws in a quick play session...but then expects pup to settle peacefully so that owner can unwind with a bit of TV. And then its off to bed.

That is the usual day-to-day reality of a lot of FT working owners and their dogs. And it REALLY isn't brilliant for the pup. Least of all when they are the ONLY dog. Different situation when they have canine company.

True, the dog grows up and gets used to it. And many grow into fabulous, happy, social companions. The reason we domesticated dogs instead of goats is that a dog is an immensly adaptable, affable creature. But not everything that CAN be done, SHOULD be done.

If a parent did that to a young child - left them locked up alone in a house all day - Social Services would come and break down that door with an axe. Never mind how much the parent swore they loved their kid or how many toys the child had. That child would be removed instantly and the parent prosecuted.

Ask yourself - Why is it ok to do it to leave a puppy all day but not a toddler? Because puppies and their needs are inherently "different"? Or because they don't enjoy the same legal rights?

Don't do it. There are many possible solutions to mitigate a working owners absence.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

There is a huge difference between working full time and leaving a puppy alone for 8 hours - and working full time and having other family members around for part of the day or popping home at intervals throughout the day, or having a walker.

To me - one is undesirable - the other is acceptable


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Blitz said:


> they are people that would not look after or want a pup even if they are home all day though.
> 
> There is more than one way to skin a cat but not every way works for every person and dog combination.


But the OP asked why there seemed to be a prejudice about people working full time getting pups. I said a lot dogs go into rescue when these people find out what the problems are - similar to leaving a child alone in your house all day - and gave examples of why people then put them in Rescue. 
Of course people can employ sitters / walkers/ ask family to help out. But you have no idea how many apparently intelligent people get a (for example) labrador puppy then go out to work for 8 or 9 hours and expect it to sleep all day.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> But the OP asked why there seemed to be a prejudice about people working full time getting pups. I said a lot dogs go into rescue when these people find out what the problems are - similar to leaving a child alone in your house all day - and gave examples of why people then put them in Rescue.
> Of course people can employ sitters / walkers/ ask family to help out. But you have no idea how many apparently intelligent people get a (for example) labrador puppy then go out to work for 8 or 9 hours and expect it to sleep all day.


Sadly, some humans are selfish  and impatient


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Re your query......
> 1. "..the puppy barked all the time and upset the neighbours...
> 2. the puppy cried...(see "1)
> 3. the puppy ate the walls / floor / furniture...
> ...


That makes for sad reading. However what you're describing is people who are ill-prepared when adopting puppies, which isn't synonymous as a full-time worker (although nor are they mutually exclusive).

There seems to be a sentiment in this conversation that being a FT worker automatically results in animal cruelty - on the basis that the puppy may not have adequate bathroom access or adequate exercise, or sometimes on the assumption that "if you work full time, you simply cannot care enough about a dog, otherwise you would not work full time". To make it clear, I am absolutely not condoning animal cruelty - not providing adequate bathroom access, water or food is most definitely animal cruelty.

However, there must exist some FT workers who manage to bring up happy puppies and who have never resorted to things which might be considered cruel. I sincerely do not believe this is impossible, which is why I started this thread.


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## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

I work full time and have two dogs, one is still a puppy.
Their both happy and well cared for dogs, even though I work 4 10hours shifts a week and OH works 5days a week my dogs are still happy and not left for long periods. One week their left alone 4days in the week and the week after its just 2days, so it's not to many days in a row.

I start work at 8am so i take them out for an hour at 6am then they have breakfast then i leave for work at 7:55am, Thankfully i'm only down the road from my house so on my hour lunch break im able to come home. I have a understanding boss who allows me to stay for a whole hour excluded the time to get home. So once i get home i take them straight out into the garden and play with them, train or just let them do whatever. I'll then sit for them and have my lunch. Then once my shift it over i come home and take them out to the fields behind the house for 30mins or so, then they settle for the night.

Neither have SA or depressed from being left, my house is still in one piece and both dogs are healthy. When i leave for work after lunch i always leave them with a frozen kong or a cardboard box with treats hidden inside.

And my days off i take the dogs out for a longer walk, they go dog training and have weekly groups walks so they don't miss out.

But i know some people that leave their dogs all day without going back and they don't get walked like my pair, so i can understand why some people get angry.


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

I have had dogs most of my working life and the majority of the turned out to be normal, secure dogs with fewer issues than some who have their owners home all day

It is hard having dogs and working - I walk mine for 1 hour before I go to work and the same or longer afterwards. During the week my day consist of dogs, work and sleep only - if I want to go out on a Friday night I got friends to walk them, finish work early, feed/walk them, then am shattered after a few pints so come home early

When I get a pup I normally take a fortnight off work to settle it in, then either come home at lunch time or get a friend in to let them into the garden. I am lucky that I work flexi-time, and usually build up hours before I get a youngster, this means I can work shorter days for a while too


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kirksandallchins said:


> I have had dogs most of my working life and the majority of the turned out to be normal, secure dogs with fewer issues than some who have their owners home all day
> 
> It is hard having dogs and working - I walk mine for 1 hour before I go to work and the same or longer afterwards. During the week my day consist of dogs, work and sleep only - if I want to go out on a Friday night I got friends to walk them, finish work early, feed/walk them, then am shattered after a few pints so come home early
> 
> When I get a pup I normally take a fortnight off work to settle it in, then either come home at lunch time or get a friend in to let them into the garden. I am lucky that I work flexi-time, and usually build up hours before I get a youngster, this means I can work shorter days for a while too


Don't think anyone could argue that you are not providing a perfectly acceptable environment for your dogs.

But - if you were to get the puppy and after the 2 weeks then leave it alone, possibly crated, from 9 - 5 then there is a huge difference. I think that is what people are referring to when they complain about full time work/puppy ownership.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Lizz1155 said:


> My apologies for the sweeping generalisations, however that is the impression that I've been given from here, Dogforums and Champdogs. It was a bit difficult to convey that impression without making generalisations. It's just a relief to know that FT workers with dogs actually do exist, since somehow they don't tend to appear in discussions.


What you have to remember is that on the internet you tend to get extreme views and people often err on the side of caution when giving advice. Its why when I was looking for a dog breed and asked several breed forums if their breed would be right for me I was told 'no, it wouldnt suit you' on every single one!!
I think its better for people to be told about the difficulties and worries about FTW and getting a puppy rather then going into it blindly. You only have to look at the amount of young dogs for sale on pet sites coz owners are working full time to see that.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I brought up 2 puppies and worked full time - they had no issues with SA, toilet training or anything else mentioned in the first post.

Admittedly, for 3 out of the 5 working days I took my dogs round to my parents and for the other 2 working days I nipped home as I was a courier covering the area I lived in and was in a position to do that.

I would never leave a puppy home alone all day without being able to let it out at all at the very least.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

As a full time worker I think you weigh up the pros and cons of having a puppy perhaps more than other people, and find out the ways to make it work. I'm sure there are a lot worse things that can happen in a dog's life than having a full time working owner _who gives it time, love and attention_ when they come home.

Many pups are brought on a whim, for kids who can't look after them and parents who can't be bothered, who are left outside to fend for themselves in a kennel etc. etc

I am lucky enough to work at home now, but I sometimes think Bess finds that more frustrating than if I worked away from the house. She tries to get my attention, but I'm either working, or cleaning the house. I can't play with her 24 hours a day - no one could, but because I'm here she doesn't do 'down time'. If I wasn't here she'd be sleeping - and then I would expect to spend my time in the house with her or out walking, and she would have 100% of my attention.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm lucky - my mum only works in the morning which means the girls are only left for 4 hours. Some days they will only be left for a few hours as I start late for college sometimes. 

I take them out for an off lead run in the morning and again in the late afternoon/evening depending on when I finish college. 

When Pippa was younger (6 months), my mum had to do some cover work which meant working pm as well as am. Pippa was fine as my mum was able to come home at lunch time for 45mins and someone was home from 3pm.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I work at home.open my back door and I am in my work place. Take my dogs with me.pups and all.

I don't think I would contemplate taking on a puppy if I was out away at work full time, don't really see how I could make it work.

Good luck and well done to any and all FT workers that can manage to put the time and effort in and hold down a FT job.

My Bullmastiff has eaten 2 kitchen floors so now if I leave her in when I go out even for 10minutes she is crated. She is crated when I go to sleep.....it doesn't seem to distress her in anyway cos she just goes to sleep.When I am home or outside, she is outside too.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Cannot understand why anybody would want a pup that wasn't (at least for the early months) going to be around for most of the day, for the pup; for training, etc.

I personally don't believe it is fair to leave even an adult dog for much longer than four hours, without the chance for it to be exercised, allowed to eliminate, a little company, etc. In many cases, a dog walker, family member, friend....can break the day up for the dog and so it could work well. 

For puppies, I think human companionship, socialising, training, etc., is what is needed and I don't believe that being left for longer than a couple of hours is the right way to go.

I have had a pup and worked FT many years ago. I only did this because my then OH worked shifts and was able to take her to work with him a fair bit too. It took her longer to house train and she ate the skirting boards in the room she was closed in (even though she was left with lots of toys, chews, a comfortable bed and water/food freely available). She was only ever left for a couple of hours at a time. It was hard work juggling our work around her needs (but worth it). However, having been through the experience, I think that for the pups sake, they are better off with a stable home life, being at home with one or other of their owners for most of the day (bar the odd couple of hours here and there of course).


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

All my working life I have had dogs, if I didnt work I couldnt afford to keep them, I dont crate my pups I puppy proof 1 or 2 rooms, my pups havent caused damage in the house, none have ever had behavioral problems, none have been sent to rescues mine are my dogs for life.
If you are able to put the time and effort in it can work, my dogs arent crated whilst I am asleep they are loose in the house, 3 are outside in kennels and runs whilst I am at work so they can eliminate when they want. My oldie stays in the house - in the past I have had people going in but he wont go out for them not even into the garden, the only time he will use the garden when I am out if I have workmen in and they leave the door open and weather is nice he will lay out on the grass but otherwise he is quite happy sleeping and resting during the day. He does get fatigued due to his DM. This is one I have had from a pup and he turned out mentally stable - therapy dog, blood donor, stooge dog - no issues with him and a product of working FT. 
My dogs are all well behaved and I walk them all together, except if i am going out on large group walks which i do 3 or 4 times a week then because i am using my car I just take 2 at a time.
Where I lived before I had a neighbour when didnt work and took his dogs out 6x day for an amble - my dogs got far more exercise than his, mine were also better trained than his.


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

depends on your working hours, number of people in the household, type/age/mentality of the dog etc etc. lots of factors. can it be done? in some cases i think so. in our case with our first pup, who is now an 8 month old flat coat retriever who becomes very boisterous indoors if he doesnt get 3 walks a day totalling 90-120mins, there is absolutely no way we could have had him if both of us worked. even if we couldve worked and had him, the time we wouldve had at home wouldve been dominated by bringing him up i.e. a total loss of what we call 'human time'.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I work full time and I would still get a puppy in future. As I live on my own, I need to work full time to be able to pay for my house, maybe if I had an OH who earned more than I do, then I would drop a few hours, but I can't afford to do that on my own.

I am not going to let that get in the way of me having dogs though - if I waited until I was in a 'perfect' position to have a dog, i'd probably be too old to manage one!

I opted for a Greyhound though - a naturally lazy, inactive breed who love to spend the day sleeping and just having a couple of relatively short walks a day. My next dog will actually be more active - my Grey is SO laid back that even as a full time worker, I feel I could manage something more active and 'on the go' as I have a keen interest in training (obedience and tricks, I just love training dogs and watching them learn new things) but my Greyhound does not share my interest in training, and would much rather kip on the sofa  so my next dog will be a little more active and eager to learn.

However, although I work full time, my parents only live a couple of streets away from me so they frequently pop in on her during the day, and if they can't make it, then I have my scooter (which I specifically bought so that I could get home from work during my lunch hour, meaning I could then get myself a dog ) and I will go home in my lunch break if I need to.

My system works really well and my dog is plenty happy, she wants for nothing and although i'd LOVE to be able to stay at home with her or at least take her to work with me, I am not that fortunate. But it works, and it can do easily.

I am quite looking forward to hopefully adding another dog as I will feel slightly less guilty in leaving Amber whilst I am at work, I will feel better knowing she has a friend at home all day with her


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

I think the backlash is aimed at those who get that 8 week old puppy, settle it in for maybe a week then crate it for 10 hours per day whilst they are at work. It is a different story if, say, your puppy goes to a sitter or someone comes in every few hours or a friend or family member can take them for maybe half the day. In all of those situations, that is fine, you have set something up before hand and done the best for your dog.

It isn't the same situation as children, you can't legally lock children in a cage and leave them at home when you go out. Imagine how that child would grow up if you did, the same as people are describing how the puppy will turn out.

I did get a puppy, but my wife works from home, so we could. When we go out for more than a couple of hours, my sister in law is here or they go to my mothers or their dog sitter or their dog walker comes over. We got all of these things planned in advance and ready before we got Pixie and I think as long as people are setting up their puppy support network properly, there is no reason full time working + a puppy can't work. I work full time but have still bonded so well with Pixie.


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## polishrose (Oct 26, 2011)

I think it's a cultural thing...when I was going through the adoption process of Misia from Poland(who will be here on Sept 9th as there were some problems with the transport)I made sure to let them know I was at home most of the day and they were actually surprised because nobody expects that.Most dog owners work full time there and nobody expects you to organise dog walkers or pop home in lunch hours.Leaving dogs for 8 or 9 hours a day is seen as totally normal even for people living in blocks of flats.
I personally didn't want a puppy-I opted for a greyhound who was 3 years old and now am getting a 4 year old crossbreed who hopefully will have a little more energy than Milly does-she really is the laziest dog around.She has been left a few times for 9 hours(when I was in hospital) and was totally fine.She didn't like being left 14 hours though(when I went back into hospital as an emergency) and did wee and poo in the house but that wasn't her fault.
I don't think I would recommend getting a puppy if you work full time but I don't see a problem with full time workers getting an older dog as long as they walk/train/play with the dog after work, and not just come home and watch tv and ignore the poor dog.I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a dog more than about 6 hours personally unless in an emergency, but also would not feel comfortable with a dog walker coming to my house either.If I ever do start working full time I will be hopefully getting a job close to home so I could pop home at lunch but it's not an issue at the moment with working evenings.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> *I would never sell a puppy to someone who worked full time away from home*.
> 
> A bit off topic but related. Wasn't there a tv program this week about dogs being left all day and suffering. I saw it advertised and meant to watch it. Can anyone remember when it was one or what it was called?


Well I work full time away from home and my puppy came to work with me when she was little, and continues to do so (now aged 4), along with my older dog. She had great socialisation opportunities with my customers and the chance to practice recall in their extensive gardens before her jabs had taken and she could go to places where other dogs had been.

It depends what your job is. My older dog came from a rescue, and they were delighted with the circumstances she'd be in with me and my job.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

MrG said:


> in our case with our first pup, who is now an 8 month old flat coat retriever who becomes very boisterous indoors if he doesnt get 3 walks a day totalling 90-120mins


Sorry slightly OT but that is an awful lot of exercise for a dog that age ..... especially a larger breed as you have to be really careful of their joints when they're growing. Recommended levels are 5 mins / month of age


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I think what most would say is don't get a puppy at 8 weeks if you are going to be out all day and have no one to come in to let the puppy out to the toilet Puppy has just left mum and siblings and is expected to spend over 8 hours alone with no interaction at all sorry I cant agree with that flame me if you want but I just don't
How can a puppy learn where to wee and poo if no one is around to teach him/her 
I know a lot have to work full time and want a puppy nothing wrong with that if someone is in and out during the day looking after the puppy 
but to leave a puppy 8 hours or more alone I just cant accept that I don't think its fair on the puppy
There are lots of older dogs who would not need the attention but I think a puppy does


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> Well I work full time away from home and my puppy came to work with me when she was little, and continues to do so (now aged 4), along with my older dog. She had great socialisation opportunities with my customers and the chance to practice recall in their extensive gardens before her jabs had taken and she could go to places where other dogs had been.
> 
> It depends what your job is. My older dog came from a rescue, and they were delighted with the circumstances she'd be in with me and my job.


Same with Kilo; he came home when I had 5 weeks off work and then came to work with me full time from about 14 weeks of age. I had popped in for gradually increasing lengths of time during my time off so it wasn't a total shock.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

Its different if your able to spend time with pup either working at home, taking them to work or having some other care plan in place so pup isn't left alone for most of standard work day 7+hrs. 
My friends bf got a puppy and just left it in the garden while out at work so is a big portion of time it spent alone and not getting any training or socialisation and I don't feel that is right, he'd not really considered what to do during winter either.


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## SarahBee (Jun 2, 2013)

My OH and I both work full time, although he often works from home.

On the days he doesn't, we have a puppy sitter come in at lunch time to give Lottie her meal and take her for a short walk. We also spend all our time (excluding sleeping time) with her when we're at home and she's not crated but has the run of two puppy proofed rooms, lots of stimulation and lots of toys. She also has access to a totally dog proofed garden.

She gets a minimum of two walks a day, lots of play time, goes to puppy creche twice a week, and is a lovely, well rounded puppy.


What I do find abhorrent are people who leave their dog in a crate for a full working day and keep them in there at night as well.

A guy I used to work with had a rottie and he and his girlfriend would leave her in her crate from 9pm to 7am, let her out, and then she'd go back in from 8am-6pm.
She was crated for 20 hours out of 24 and I was so glad when they decided they 'couldn't cope with her' and gave her up to a shelter.

That's the kind of working owner that I think should be objected to.


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## neila (Aug 2, 2013)

My wife and I have had Alfie the westie pup since he was 8 weeks old. He is now 16 weeks. We both work full time away from home but I have been off sick for 3 months with a trapped nerve. We had always wanted a puppy and thought that now was an ideal time as I could help him settle. I am going back to work next week, although only for a few days initially. Luckily my wife's parents live quite close by and on the days we work they have agreed to have alfie. He loves it over with them and gets on great with the 6 year old staffie they have.

It is possible to have a dog/puppy and work full time but does require a lot of hard work. 

I dont think it is fair that some people seem to have a blanket approach to people getting a new puppy when they work full time. All situations are different. 

We are so glad we got alfie and he seems to be a happy and loving dog. If a little cheeky at times.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I work full time Monday to Friday 9am till 5:30pm. I have two dogs - a rough collie (2 years old) and a border collie (5 months old).

I pop home in the middle of the day for lunch and on the days when I can't I have someone else pop home and see them. 

My Rough collie is well behaved and happy and just sleeps. My new BC is of course being a puppy full of energy but toys and walks seem to occupy her. She has damaged some flooring but nothing more than what you would expect from a young puppy. 

Both are fully house trained (including the pup!) and are really well behaved. 

So yes in answer to your question yes you can have a full time job and have a dog (or two!).


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## Riff Raff (Feb 12, 2013)

I have three adult dogs of my own, plus a foster often. I work almost full time hours away from home. I even have very high energy herding breeds, two of which I compete in obedience. 

I am happy to adopt out some dogs I have fostered to working homes, and have had great success with many of those adoptions. I expect working homes to explain how they will meet the dog's needs, and where they will be kept during alone hours. They need to have a realistic plan in place, explain their intended daily routine, and show a lot of commitment.

I have also found that not all homes where there is a person at home full time are quite as ideal as they initially sound. Usually the reason for being at home is that there are young children in the home. Obviously not all dogs are suited to living with young children. Even the ones that are can sometimes run into problems, and yes, these dogs get surrendered to rescue too. Whilst young families can be pretty great with tiny pups, they are not always so well suited to meet the needs of a boisterous teen once that pup grows up. It isn't easy to walk longer and faster with kids in tow, and as soon as one of the kids is sick, they can't go at all if the other partner doesn't get home until late. They often find it difficult to attend training classes for lack of baby sitters, and teaching loose leash walking with a pram is not always easy. I have come across a lot of dogs in busy homes with young families who get relegated to outside alone for most of their time since they are too boisterous indoors, chew the kids toys etc etc. Whilst working homes may need to leave the dogs, having people at home does not always mean quality time with the dog.


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## lotlot (Mar 28, 2011)

I work full time hours. But this is spread over three days of the week. It means a very long shift but my four days off are completely dedicated to my dogs. I also come home after a 14 hour shift and head straight out for a walk and manage two training sessions with each dog. I still live with my mum so she cares for the dogs when I'm not home. In the future when I move out, I will still take them to my mums or pay for dog sitting which is much more doable/affordable for three days only. It is hard work, but I feel I give my dogs a good life. My time off is completely dedicated to them. I think anyone can make it work if they are dedicated enough.

But there are many who don't understand the commitment of having a dog/puppy and therefore the dog misses out. I have neighbours who got a boxer puppy. She leaves home at 7.30 and gets home at 6pm and his hours are similar. The puppy is crazy and it is clear that he is very stressed with this situation  it's very sad to see.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Riff Raff said:


> I have three adult dogs of my own, plus a foster often. I work almost full time hours away from home. I even have very high energy herding breeds, two of which I compete in obedience.
> 
> I am happy to adopt out some dogs I have fostered to working homes, and have had great success with many of those adoptions. I expect working homes to explain how they will meet the dog's needs, and where they will be kept during alone hours. They need to have a realistic plan in place, explain their intended daily routine, and show a lot of commitment.
> 
> I have also found that not all homes where there is a person at home full time are quite as ideal as they initially sound. Usually the reason for being at home is that there are young children in the home. Obviously not all dogs are suited to living with young children. Even the ones that are can sometimes run into problems, and yes, these dogs get surrendered to rescue too. Whilst young families can be pretty great with tiny pups, they are not always so well suited to meet the needs of a boisterous teen once that pup grows up. It isn't easy to walk longer and faster with kids in tow, and as soon as one of the kids is sick, they can't go at all if the other partner doesn't get home until late. They often find it difficult to attend training classes for lack of baby sitters, and teaching loose leash walking with a pram is not always easy. I have come across a lot of dogs in busy homes with young families who get relegated to outside alone for most of their time since they are too boisterous indoors, chew the kids toys etc etc. Whilst working homes may need to leave the dogs, having people at home does not always mean quality time with the dog.


I know of plenty of folk in my local area who do not work, some of those do not have kids or have older kids who still don't walk their dogs and end up rehoming them as they "don't have time for them" or they are "destructive", "naughty" etc etc. I saw an ad from one person a few weeks back that caught my eye as the dog had belonged to someone near me when I moved in and been rehomed to another couple. At 14 months old the dog was being passed on yet again as she "needed a home who could walk her every day".

It is all bound up with peoples' expectations and reality matching up I think.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

We did it with our first pup - I would NEVER do it again. I had no idea how cruel it was to the dog - and we were lucky - we had a lovely neighbour who let him out a couple of times a day when we were at work, for a wee and a cuddle.

In all conscience, I couldn't bring myself to do it again - though compared to a life in rescue kennels, or death row, I suppose it is preferable.

We ended up getting a second dog as company for him, and that did work much better, as at least he had someone to get up to mischief with (and boy, did they!)


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Lizz1155 said:


> That makes for sad reading. However what you're describing is people who are ill-prepared when adopting puppies, which isn't synonymous as a full-time worker (although nor are they mutually exclusive).
> 
> *There seems to be a sentiment in this conversation that being a FT worker automatically results in animal cruelty - on the basis that the puppy may not have adequate bathroom access or adequate exercise, or sometimes on the assumption that "if you work full time, you simply cannot care enough about a dog, otherwise you would not work full time". *To make it clear, I am absolutely not condoning animal cruelty - not providing adequate bathroom access, water or food is most definitely animal cruelty.
> 
> However, there must exist some FT workers who manage to bring up happy puppies and who have never resorted to things which might be considered cruel. I sincerely do not believe this is impossible, which is why I started this thread.


I'm sorry... Are we reading 2 very different threads? :blink: :huh:

Despite people, from the very first page, telling you that they have/do work FT hours AND manage a pup, you still make such sweeping statements as the bolded bit above? Where is the evidence for that?

The general consensus that I'm picking up is that YES, working FT with a puppy CAN work, so long as there is a manageable system in place which proves the dog's needs are being met - either the dog goes to work with the owner, owner walks the dogs before and after work, AND comes home during lunch to let the dog out, play etc. Others might get someone to come in during the day - a relative/friend/dog walker who can let the dog out during the day, OR the dog goes to day care whilst owners are at work.

All of the above show that the owner has given a lot of thought into the situation AND made arrangements so that the dog's needs are being met.

The only time working FT and having a puppy/dog is cruel, is if the dog is crated whilst owner's at work, then ignored in favour of the TV because owner's too tired/stressed/cba to walk or play with the dog. :crying:


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I know of plenty of folk in my local area who do not work, some of those do not have kids or have older kids who still don't walk their dogs and end up rehoming them as they "don't have time for them" or they are "destructive", "naughty" etc etc. I saw an ad from one person a few weeks back that caught my eye as the dog had belonged to someone near me when I moved in and been rehomed to another couple. At 14 months old the dog was being passed on yet again as she "needed a home who could walk her every day".
> 
> It is all bound up with peoples' expectations and reality matching up I think.


This is very true. There are plenty of long term unemployed people around here who are around all day but who's dog's daily exercise consists of a walk to the off license. Usually whilst leaving a steaming turd on the pavement for someone to tread in.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Swings and roundabouts really, I don't think it's fair leaving a young pup all day without company, both OH and I work full time, BUT as OH is on shifts Cian isn't left more than a few hours, and if he is I come home from work, this involves a taxi ride to and from work for an hour, it cost a bit, but I don't think it's fair leaving him that long. I had to the other day and I was worried sick all day, he was of course find, but still it's not something I plan to do again :crying:

If your coming home, or having someone come in, or having a dog walker to break up the day I don't think it's so bad and it is do able. We walk Cian before work, and then at 10:30pm when I get home, if OH is on earlys he get 3 walks a day.

Our evenings and weekend revolve round Cian, I wouldn't go and leave him at weekends, holidays will be planned round him too ie if he can't go we won't go....


I don't think full time at home people give their dogs any more attention that FT workers, in a lot of cases they get even less attention, rarely walked, always getting in the way because they are there 24/7, it's a catch 22. Some FT workers home are the best homes a dog will ever got, and the FT stay at home home will be the worst, and visa versa..

FYI OP I've never been made to feel cruel or that I neglect my dog for working FT on this site or any other for that matter.


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

I work full time and I've had my pup since she was 11 weeks old. It works principally because I spend a fair bit of money using daycare or a visitor 5 days a week. Puppies are tough, and although a lot of stuff takes longer to train if you're not around all day, being home 24/7 isn't a magic bullet. My SiL was a housewife when she got her pup, and joins me on the "never again" conversation (which I magically forgot when we got Betty!).

If you're prepared to spend time, money and effort, working FT with a pup can work. If you're not cut out to raise a pup, don't have a healthy dose of patience and expect perfection without putting in the hours, then the little'un is heading for P4H, gumtree or a rescue regardless of your work commitments. 

Work gets the blame for a lot of rehomes cos people don't like to admit that they just weren't prepared to put in some effort.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Wilmer said:


> Work gets the blame for a lot of rehomes cos people don't like to admit that they just weren't prepared to put in some effort.


I think this is very very true, and I know of a *fact* a lot of pups, well what I consider pups in my breed adolescent males are rehomed by people who don't work, sorry to stereo type a small amount of my breeds owners... Who haven't put the time and thought in to their pups let alone the breed of the dog. So I think it's VERY unfair to say that the pups that end up in rescue are mostly from people who work, I think work is an excuse for many, when they can't cope anymore or are bored, it's nothing to do with them being FT workers..


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

My lot have just experienced my worst case work scenario. On their own for 2 14 hour nights with no walk in between. This rarely happens except my friend had to do some serious overtime leaving the dogs with no-one to watch them (and if Im lucky enough to even get a break I cant leave the ward and go home to check on them).
They coped fine with it though! When I got my dogs I took the worst case scenario into account...meaning that I knew I coulnt have large/active type dogs and that house training would likely be a much longer process.
Mine need to be able to accept being left a long time unfortunately as if there is problems staffing or a patient is very poorly in the morning I can be hours late home. You cant run out of a cardiac arrest coz your dog might be missing you!!
I still think that a couple of nights inconvenience for them is worth it for the time we do get to spend together.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> My lot have just experienced my worst case work scenario. On their own for 2 14 hour nights with no walk in between. This rarely happens except my friend had to do some serious overtime leaving the dogs with no-one to watch them (and if Im lucky enough to even get a break I cant leave the ward and go home to check on them).
> They coped fine with it though! When I got my dogs I took the worst case scenario into account...meaning that I knew I coulnt have large/active type dogs and that house training would likely be a much longer process.
> Mine need to be able to accept being left a long time unfortunately as if there is problems staffing or a patient is very poorly in the morning I can be hours late home. You cant run out of a cardiac arrest coz your dog might be missing you!!
> I still think that a couple of nights inconvenience for them is worth it for the time we do get to spend together.


That's it, it's about balance, I know Cian could cope ( not sure I could lol ), if it's not all the time then I don't think there is a problem, I do think it's a problem when dogs/puppies are left 12/13 hours every day  then the families go about "their" weekend stuff, without considering the dog.. But then there are families who go 24/7 all year without considering the dog and they are in the house full time


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> My lot have just experienced my worst case work scenario. On their own for 2 14 hour nights with no walk in between. This rarely happens except my friend had to do some serious overtime leaving the dogs with no-one to watch them (and if Im lucky enough to even get a break I cant leave the ward and go home to check on them).
> They coped fine with it though! When I got my dogs I took the worst case scenario into account...meaning that I knew I coulnt have large/active type dogs and that house training would likely be a much longer process.
> Mine need to be able to accept being left a long time unfortunately as if there is problems staffing or a patient is very poorly in the morning I can be hours late home. You cant run out of a cardiac arrest coz your dog might be missing you!!
> I still think that a couple of nights inconvenience for them is worth it for the time we do get to spend together.


This is why I think its useful for dogs to get used to being left on their own so they can be in case of emergency. A dog that's never learned how to amuse itself, or just switch off and sleep when it's owner is out would be far less able to cope.

Obviously some dogs have SA, which makes it a lot harder, but I wonder how many of dogs with SA werent given an opportunity to learn how to cope when very young?


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> I do think rescues need to be a bit more willing to rehome to FT workers - it's absolutely not for ALL dogs BUT for some (especially if they've been left for periods in their previous home) it's absolutely fine - it's about matching people / dogs up and not having blanket policies that exclude huge chunks of the population
> 
> Many people turned down by rescues want a dog and end up getting a pup - and I truly believe this then contributes to the ads (and we've all seen them - there were around 20 new ones on my local Gum*tree today) of pups from 11 weeks (so they've had it a couple of weeks ) to 7 months+ as they can't cope with the amount of work involved with a pup ... but they may well have been OK with an older dog


Many rescues do re-home the right dog to the right full time workers; (i.e. those with a proper routine in place). I don't see how can blame rescues; they may well have not considered that the family were prepared to put the right amount of work in, or were leaving the dog for far too long (we wouldn't rehome where the dog was going to be left 8-9 hours without a break and often turn people down for this reason). Its not the rescues fault they then go out and get a puppy; thus proving they haven't thought about it at all and re-inforcing the rescues original gut feeling that they were not the right home for a dog; if they were that keen and sensible could have looked into re-homing an older dog from elsewhere.

My dog was left from a pup in ever increasing amounts of time we did everything right and he is really destructive when we are out - it might be an age thing (he is 17 months and not a breed known to mature quickly) but lots of people (dog owners too) have suggested that we re-home him without even asking what we do to manage it or what help we could seek - annoys me the first response they give was to re-home hime (and we are not both full time workers either although I know it can work but would have been very hard with a pup if both doing the same hours etc whilst he was a baby)


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Re your query......
> 1. "..the puppy barked all the time and upset the neighbours...
> 2. the puppy cried...(see "1)
> 3. the puppy ate the walls / floor / furniture...
> ...


But this is also very very true of people who don't work full time.. Cept for maybe 9, but you can change that too, I was too tired after sleeping all day and sitting on my back side watching JC and playing PS3 or looking after kids all day, if it's not work you can add a multitude of excuses.. Comments like these annoy me, I've had dogs all my life and worked all my life, and not once have I handed a dog in to rescue, or had issues with ANY of the above.. This is more about bad owners full stop that those who work and those who don't...


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