# Fantail Worry



## Hails (Mar 7, 2014)

Hi, I'm really worried about my Fantail Goldfish.

I have two goldfish, one is a common type the other a fantail. A few days ago the fantail started swimming frantically around the tank. It seems to be quite disorientated and going round in circles and I don't think it's eating properly. 

I look after the tank regularly, scrubbing off the algae and doing regular water changes (conditioning the water). The fish are fed once in the morning, the tank is placed out of direct sunlight and the tank light is only lit for 10 hours a day. 

After noticing the fantail's behaviour I cleaned the tank (which is a 60 gallon tank), changed the filters and have done two water changes yesterday and again today. 

Please could anyone advise what might be wrong with the fantail and if there is anything else I can do? The other common goldfish seems to be okay.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Does it seem to be having difficulty swimming upright? If so then it's probably a swim bladder issue. Try starving them for a day or two then feeding a cooked, shelled and crushed pea - this works as a laxative to help clear any blockages that may be pressing on the swim bladder. It won't do your other goldfish any harm either, but do try to make sure the fantail gets at least some of the pea before the other one gobbles it all up!

If it's not a swim bladder issue, frantic dashing around the tank can be caused by ammonia poisoning. Have you tested your water for ammonia and nitrite? And when you clean/change the filters, do you change all the media at once, or just a small amount at a time? And do you clean it in tap water, or old tank water?

Fantails tend to be a little more delicate than commons, so it would likely be the first one to show symptoms if there's any water quality issues.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Firstly well done for being a goldfish owner with a suitably sized tank. Most problems with goldfish come from people mistakenly keeping goldfish in tanks that are way too small - clearly this is not a problem here!

Do you have a filter (i'm assuming you do for a tank that big) and if so how do you maintain it? Do you rinse it in tap water ever (even once, by mistake, recently)? Do you use a suitable tap water conditioner before adding new water to your tank (e.g. tap safe, safe start, or even better - Seachem Prime)?

The behaviour you describe to me sounds very much like a problem with the water chemistry as Naomi said, which can be caused by either not treating your tap water before adding it AND/OR rinsing the filter and/or decor in untreated raw tap water (both of which kill all the bacteria you need to break down the fishes' wastes), or over feeding which in turn increases the waste produced by the fish. Overfeeding also causes problems with the swim bladder as it can block up the fishes' intestines (a particular problem with fancy goldfish).

Get a water test kit for ammonia and nitrite, and buy a bottle of seachem prime to treat your tap water if you don't already have it. Prime is vastly superior to most other conditioners on the market because you can use it to deal with ammonia and nitrite spikes ('mini cycles') in the aquarium.

If you have been correctly dosing your tap water and not rinsing filters in tap water (accidents can happen!), and your filter is functioning and all water parameters come back normal (ammonia and nitrite ZERO and nothing more!) then the next most likely culprit is some sort of parasite. Adding some aquarium salt to the tank will help with this and any water chemistry issues (follow instructions on packet, do not use ordinary table salt) whilst you try to investigate what the problem is. If water chemistry is ok you will need to try one of the over the counter parasite remedies.

Can you see any blemishes at all on the goldy's scales? White spots? Powdery speckles? Anything wormlike sticking out anywhere? Scales sticking up? Bloating? Lumps, bumps? 

Let us know what you see/find.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

By the way you do not need to light your tank - certainly not for 10 hours a day! Lighting is great for two things: Growing plants and observing the fish. The fish themselves do not need vast amounts of light, in fact most fish prefer to have less light than more.

Over illuminating your tank will lead to excess algal growth, and unless you have a fully planted aquarium then all that ammonia waste from your goldfish (one of the messiest of fish!) will increase nitrates which will feed algal growth. 

My advice - turn off the lights. If your tank is in an exceptionally darkened room then ok, lights are good, but otherwise natural light will suffice during the day, and room lighting in the evening will be fine. Save the lights (and your energy bills) for viewing the fish. If you have a fully planted tank in which you are trying to grow plants, then lighting is obviously a must.


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## Hails (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the advise guys. I've done quite a a lot a research since posting and I'm quite sure its swim bladder. So have been feeding peas and have used some Epsom salts (have checked the right amount to add to tank). I think it has eaten a bit of pea but it seems to be struggling to keep its self the right way round to be able to pick them up from the bottom. Also the other "big lad" is a bit like a vacuum cleaner! So not sure if he's getting better or worse. At the moment he is swimming round in circles for a little while, floating up to the top, then going back down to the bottom and then finally resting anywhere he can like at the bottom or in plant for about 30 seconds before he repeats all this again. He's lasted longer than I thought though. It's been 4/5 days now. I guess it won't be long though? :sad: Feel really sorry for him!!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Please do also test for ammonia and nitrite (using a liquid test, not the strips), as any problems with water chemistry will contribite to any other problems, and will also ultimately affect your other fish.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

If there's no change in a couple of days, please try the epsom salts. If there is any way you can keep the healthy fish from gobbling up all the peas (perhaps scooping him out into a bucket until the poorly fishy has eaten) then it would give the fishy chance to get the peas in him. But if the peas aren't working the epsom salts should do.

And yes, test your water - having a water test kit now will come in useful in the future anyway (they last a long time) - just in case there is something off.


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## Hails (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. Just to be sure, how much Epsom salts should I be putting in? A couple of days ago I put in 4 teaspoons dissolved and have been feeding chopped up peas since the weekend and I have to say he is looking slightly better. He looks like he's trying to look for food and doesn't seem to be resting on the bottom as much or floating up to the top. Still spins round a bit but not as much as he was doing, like he's trying not to spin. But I think I will take the other fish out for a while as that one appears to be bullying the fantail by pushing him over. Thanks again


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Erm just a quick question - you didn't put the epsom salts into the aquarium did you? I think there's been a little mix up with the different kind of salts mentioned in this thread.

As myself and Naomi have both said, the problem you initially described to us sounds like a problem with the water chemistry, for which you need to test your water, and ensure you are using a suitable water conditioner. I also suggested aquarium salt, which is salt that has no other additives so is safe to use in the aquarium (as opposed to table/cooking salt which has other things in it so isn't safe to use). Salt can help protect against nitrite poisoning as well as stimulate the fish's slime coating to help with potential parasite issues.

In response to our posts you mentioned you were feeding peas and using epsom salts. Epsom salts are a completely different kind of salt that is magnesium based (aquarium salt, like cooking salt, is sodium chloride, the same stuff that is in sea water), and epsom salts should NOT be added to the main aquarium. Epsom salts are a laxative (used by people too, hence you buy them in the chemist and not at the pet store) which may help if there are swim bladder issues, but will not help with water chemistry issues. Epsom salts are administered in a separate bucket, and the fish is bathed in them for a set period of time before being returned to the tank.

If you have put Epsom salts into the aquarium then you need to perform a very large water change to get rid of them, asap. I don't know what the long term effects of leaving epsom salts in the main water are, but rather than run the risk you need to sort this soon.

You need to get yourself a water testing kit (the API master test kit is the best), a bottle of Seachem Prime (the best water conditioner you can currently buy and is very good value for money) and a box of aquarium salt. You will need these regardless of whether the peas and epsom salts have helped - any problems with water chemistry will cause your fish to get sick, or make them susceptible to other illnesses and problems.

Here are some links so you can see what I mean:

API Freshwater Master Test Kit | eBay
Seachem Prime Water Conditioner Fresh And Salt Water
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interpet-0521-Aqualibrium-Salt/dp/B003M05BM2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Aquariu...&qid=1394628479&sr=1-1&keywords=aquarium+salt

And finally, these are epsom salts, which you buy from the chemist:

Epsom Salts 200g | Magnesium Sulphate | Epsom salt powder - Boots

Hope that helps.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> If you have put Epsom salts into the aquarium then you need to perform a very large water change to get rid of them, asap. I don't know what the long term effects of leaving epsom salts in the main water are, but rather than run the risk you need to sort this soon.


Just thought I'd mention that epsom salts will do no harm in the aquarium... I constantly have epsom salts in my goldfish tank! I have to add them at every water change as my water is too soft and epsom salts increase the GH. So don't panic


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Well that's a relief to hear - but seeing as all mention of epsom salts has been to bathe them in a bucket I assumed it was not safe to leave it permanently in the aquarium. I was dosing one of my fish and it said leave them for 20 minute in the bath or until there are signs of distress... hence my worry - but perhaps that was a medicinal dose not environmental dose, I suspect the OP needs a medicinal dose for her fish to be sorted (assuming swim bladder is even the problem) in which case i'd still advise dosing in a bucket.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh yes, absolutely I agree that a salt bath in a bucket would be better, not to mention much easier! But as the OP only put 4 teaspoons into a 60 gallon tank (which is a tiny, tiny amount), I didn't want them to think they had to do massive water changes to get rid of it, as it won't do any harm 

If required, the dosage I've seen quoted most often for Epsom salts as a treatment, is 2 tablespoons for every 10 litres of water (which is the same as I used to treat the goldie of mine that had dropsy).

I also agree that if it hasn't already been done, it would be best to get the water tested asap, to rule out problems with water quality.


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## Hails (Mar 7, 2014)

Hi Magpie
If I take the fantail out and put it in a 24 litre tank how long would you suggest leaving it for? 20 mins?? You also said 2 tablespoons of epsom salt per 10 litres, is that right? Mighty try this as he's not improved since last post. looks like he trying to eat but still floating in circles and is curved over to one side. Can't believe he's still going to be honest. Waiting for a liquid test kit to come through post as I couldn't get hold of one in our pet shop. So will test water as soon as.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Yep, around 20-30 minutes should do it. And yes, I know it probably sounds like a lot, but 2 tablespoons per 10 litres is correct... and fingers crossed that it helps


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

I think it was phoenix who mentioned seachem prime - if you can get hold of some from your local shop, it might also be worth dosing the whole tank with this as a precautionary measure until your test kit arrives. Can't do any harm, and it won't be money wasted in any event, as it's also one of the best and most economical dechlorinators on the market, so you can use it for your regular water changes  Worth asking for it by name in your local aquatic shop - in mine they hide it away in the marine section for some reason!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Just wondering what happened with the fishy? Did you manage to sort him out?


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