# Is there anything to be done about bybs?



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Having read the Sherkhan bengal thread - where the 'breeder' is selling kittens on at 5 and 6 weeks, to others , for breeding, saying they will be TICA registered but also has no registered GCCF or TICA prefix. IS there anything that can be done? It's made me really, really cross but I don't know what to do about it.

ANy ideas?


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_Oh dear, i havent read the thread, off to look now, but it doesnt sound very good....._


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

last page and a half


----------



## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Can you not report them? You have proof from the forum that they are selling the cats at such a stupid age. They clearly state on their website they are GCCF and TICA registered, am sure they would love to hear about them!

If they are saying they are registered and they aren't, is that legal?


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

My proof is only hearsay - so not proof at all. And what would those organisation do - I suppose the Fraud squad might be interested as they are not what they say they are, but again I don't know if *I *can do that.


----------



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

The only thing I can think of if they are advertising bengals as registered with GCCF?TICA and they arent would be trading standards, but I would have thought it would take someone who had actually bought a kitten to complain? It also wouldnt help the kittens who are being sold at such a young age, as Spid has said the RSPCA may be interested.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I doubt there's anything can be done. This particular case is extreme but the seller was obviously honest about the age of the kittens and didn't pretend they were older. Nobody was conned. It's all only a matter of degree and comparison. There are plenty of people think those of us who keep them until 13 weeks old should be burned at the stake for denying new owners the chance to 'bond'. They are just as convinced they're right.


----------



## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

Maybe we can campaign for some form of legislation? I have no idea about how we could start going a about this but would be in full support.


----------



## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Social media?

Facebook group?

Gotta stop this spid!!


----------



## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

In The Netherlands, kittens can leave the nest at a minimum age of 7 weeks. This is the law.


----------



## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow don't even know what to day 5-6 weeks old?!  God even some moggie breeders keep them till 8weeks! 

Anything I can do let me know!


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I wish I knew what to do. Will do some research - at least we need to make it illegal to sell or give away kittens under 7 weeks old (if that's the law in Europe) - obviously I'd like it later but easier to stay in line with other legislation first. I'll look into an FB campaign and a petition - but tomorrow now.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

found an epetition already recently set up - 10,000 sigs and will get a responce from the gov, 100,000 and will be debated by back benchers. SO share share sharehttp://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46656


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

You could try using something like www.change.org for the petition as well as a FB/Twitter campaign


----------



## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

the link doesn't work for me


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I think most people wouldn't know that its not a good idea to take a kitten at such a young age.

I was under the impression that pedigree kittens were kept longer because they had to be vaccinated cos of cat club directives.

I don't breed cats and I don't show either so I never come into contact with people who do.

There always used to be kittens for sale in pet shops and they would be ready "to go" aged between 6 to 8 weeks.

I think the message needs to get out there that this is too young to let them go.

I think Facebook would be a great place to start.

How old are kittens when CP and RSPCA let them go to new homes?

And, RSPCA has plenty money etc, maybe they should be encouraged to do a campaign on TV about this too.


----------



## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I completely agree people need to be more aware of whats ok and whats not, we got our moggies at around 7 weeks old (looking at photos its possible they are younger), which at the time myself and everyone I knew thought was normal. Its only since having peds at 13 weeks and joining here that I can look back and see huge red flags and make the now obvious comparison between a healthy socialised kitten and a tiny little scrap who within days came down with cat flu. 

In the original thread the buyer states she is applying for a TICA prefix to breed from these kittens, but if the kittens are unregistered then how can they be bred from under a prefix? Is that possible or does the heritage of the breeding cats not come into question?


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> but if the kittens are unregistered then how can they be bred from under a prefix?


Anyone who buys kittens for breeding like this has no idea what's required because if they'd looked into it they'd know it was the wrong way to go about it. As it happens if the parents are registered then the kittens can be but somehow I doubt the breeder will have supplied the right paperwork to do so.


----------



## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

That thread just annoys me because I know the cycle is going to continue. The person who got the young kittens will breed them. *sigh*


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I think there's an element of buyer beware in purchasing kittens. 

The only real way to stop people breeding from pets is to neuter before sale, for many breeds that horse has well and truly bolted though so it's up to the buyers to research and compare breeders - as many people do with purchases of any kind these days.


RSPCA and other large rescues let kittens go at 8 weeks here, the youngest they are allowed to. Private rescues tend to wait 10-12 weeks.
We also have neutering, vaccinating and microchipping laws in most states. 

Can online petitions actually change things? Are they valid without actual signatures?


----------



## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree about the buyer beware part. The thing though, at least in The Netherlands, it's easy to find information on buying an official pedigree kitten. There are even articles about for eg. the pedigree only costs 12.50 euro so it's not about the piece of paper but the other things (like tests, vaccinations etc.)which make a pedigree more expensive than a BYB. 

People STILL fall for BYBs. Honestly I give up. The only way people will learn is if they learn the hard way (kitten gets ill and dies etc.). And as a breeder, the only way to protect yourself is to early neuter (as you said).


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

All it will do is cause the unscrupulous to lie about the age of the kittens they are selling.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

well if RSPCA are willing to let kittens go aged from 8 weeks I don't see how it will be possible to educate people wanting kittens that this isn't the way to go.

Maybe a good place to start would be to lobby RSPCA first and see what they have to say.

I have no time for RSPCA anyway........but maybe they need educating too.


----------



## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

The only mitigating factor with a rescue kitten though is that sometimes the mum isn't about! Is there any point keeping them the extra 4 weeks with MomCat there to learn from?,


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I haven't seen that ad so don't know which website it is on, but some websites wont take ads for kittens under 8 weeks,
Maybe witha good idea to contact the website the ad is on,just a thought, to start with


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just looked at a few websites, and Preloved say they wont advertise kittens to be sold under 8 weeks, and kittenads say its illegal to sell kittens under 8 weeks


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Chiantina said:


> The only mitigating factor with a rescue kitten though is that sometimes the mum isn't about! Is there any point keeping them the extra 4 weeks with MomCat there to learn from?,


The other mitigating factor is that there is nothing like enough space in rescues for all the animals needing a place, so kittens are rehomed as soon as possible to make room for more kittens.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Just looked at a few websites, and Preloved say they wont advertise kittens to be sold under 8 weeks, and kittenads say its illegal to sell kittens under 8 weeks


I can't find that at kittenads - it's not in their T&C - and AFAIK in the UK there isn't a minimum age below which it's illegal to sell kittens.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I've got something in the back of my mind that pet shops may be under some sort of restriction and can't sell kittens under 8 weeks. This could vary area by area because it's councils which are responsible for pet shops and they may have differing rules. Private individuals aren't covered by any specific age restriction though they will be covered by Animal Welfare legislation.


----------



## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

havoc said:


> I've got something in the back of my mind that pet shops may be under some sort of restriction and can't sell kittens under 8 weeks. This could vary area by area because it's councils which are responsible for pet shops and they may have differing rules. Private individuals aren't covered by any specific age restriction though they will be covered by Animal Welfare legislation.


Pet shop near my old house had kittens with blue eyes that could barely stand they must have been all but 5 weeks old :frown2:

I guess it is about policing it really, if no one is there to watch over them they can pretty much do what they like


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

7 - 8 weeks isn't brilliant but would be a start.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Kittenads policy about it being illegal to sell kittens under 8 weeks comes up when someone is placing an ad
As far as I know petshops are not allowed at to sell kittens and puppies fron a pet shop, 
I know Harrods do, but a petshop here was told they would be closed down if they were caught selling kittens,as they had been doing from the shop


----------



## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

harrods sell pets?!

designer pets, I assume;D


----------

