# Border Collie pulls manically on lead



## roxypup (Dec 14, 2011)

My Border Collie is a nightmare to walk on the lead. (Not an unusual story!) She has always been this way since we first got her. She is 2 1/2 years old now. 
She gets super excited when she goes for a walk. I usually take her to the fields which are about a 500 yard walk down the street from my house where she can then be let off lead. 
Walking off lead she is perfect, couldn't ask for her to be any better, but on lead is another story.
She does that annoying collie yap right at the beginning but then calms slightly but pulls like a bugger. I've tried several different methods to try and resolve the problem such as harnesses, halti's, slip leads, training leads, walking different routes, taking her out some where new in the car, yet the problem still occurs each time I walk her. 
I'd really appreciate any info or advice anyone has on this matter and if anyone has any ideas on training I could try?


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

I had this too

Is she treat orientated at all?
If so what I've started to do [after trying tons of other things] is....

Dog on left of me, hold the lead in my right hand, 
The lead goes across the front of me and behind my left hand in which I also hold a treat, each time she pulls I stop, and get her to 'look at me'... walk again and let her take the treat if she stays behind my left hand, it does take a while, often having to hold my hand right in front of her nose to 'show' her the treat.

its a slow process but its the one I used with my previous dog and she got it quite quickly... Meg is definitely getting there now tho

Good luck xx


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## roxypup (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks I will try that. 
She's not so much treat orientated but she does love a tennis ball! I may use that instead of a treat as such

Its trying to break that collie focus on getting to the field or where ever else we are going thats tricky


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Ive only just started LLW with my Jack Russell and she is 3 1/2 years old!
I always avoided it because I thought I could get away with using a Halti or harness etc. But she pulls with the lot. Double ended leads you name it!
So I had enough and a couple of weeks ago we went out with a normal flat collar and lead, everytime she pulls I stop and make a point of stamping my feet loudly so she knows it!

She has REALLY improved and been really good, I didnt have any faith in her non pulling skills, like your dog she is SO keen to get to the fields. I have fields outside my house but walk her to fields 30mins away. 

Everytime she pulls, I stop and she now stops too and looks slightly sideways to look at me from the corner of her eye as if to say "Okay I know...NOW can we go" and it is working, she can can still go like the clappers but I NEVER thought Id be walking her on a flat collar and lead. I give her treats when shes close to me and starts wagging her tail when I say Good girl! normally on the way back from a big run once shes had a blast about then shes interested in treats! 

I stop, she stops, when shes looked at me then we move on, if she just stops and keeps looking ahead I know as soon as we step forward shes gonna pull because she hasnt remembered why we stopped if that makes sense?

I know its tedious and I got sick of hearing of all these non quick fix ways of dealing with it, but I really am enjoying walking Dottie now instead of dreading it xxx


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

The funny thing is, my other JR Charlie walks like a dream on the lead automatically and never needed any training. Mad hey!? Good luck!


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## roxypup (Dec 14, 2011)

Its great to hear that your tactic has worked for you  and Jack Russels can be stubborn too so thats an achievement! Hopefully putting a few of your ideas and advice together I may find what works for my collie. 
I often see collies walking quite a lot further in front of their owners, and some even off lead (which I don't agree with on pavements next to roads etc) but the more people I ask the more I hear Collies are often poor walkers on leads. 
It's not a major issue for me to get her perfect on the lead as I live in a rural village and have access to open fields where they can run off lead freely which they enjoy so much more, but it would be nice to be able to take her new places with me without her pulling my arm off


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

roxypup said:


> Its great to hear that your tactic has worked for you  and Jack Russels can be stubborn too so thats an achievement! Hopefully putting a few of your ideas and advice together I may find what works for my collie.
> I often see collies walking quite a lot further in front of their owners, and some even off lead (which I don't agree with on pavements next to roads etc) but the more people I ask the more I hear Collies are often poor walkers on leads.
> It's not a major issue for me to get her perfect on the lead as I live in a rural village and have access to open fields where they can run off lead freely which they enjoy so much more, but it would be nice to be able to take her new places with me without her pulling my arm off


Collies are no more poor walkers on the lead than any other breed.

I have four and I keep them on the lead deliberately to warm up their muscles before they are allowed to charge about free running, as do many savvy owners whose dogs compete in any of the various sports.

Be determined and patient and you will get there....


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/loose_leash_diagramed.doc
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/letsgoforawalktogether.pdf
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/strolling_on_lead.doc
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/walkingyourdogwithheadhalter.pdf
http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Looselead_000.pdf
http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_files/factsheets/Pulling on the lead.pdf
How to Teach Loose-Leash Walking | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
Leash Walking « Ahimsa Dog Blog
http://www.pawsitivelydogs.co.uk/LLW.pdf

Look under loose leash walking here:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles Contents

Books:

My dog pulls what do I do? 
By Turid Rugaas
Help, my dog pulls on the lead 
by Erica Peachey
Can't Pull, Won't Pull 
By Alison Rowbotham

DVD

Your Clever Dog: How to stop your dog pulling on the lead
Sarah Whitehead

Why dogs pull: the secret your dog doesn't want you to know; How to stop pulling instantly; What you need to do before you even attach the lead; Why the type of walks you go on matter.
Includes: Training DVD, training manual, clicker, tote bag.

Dogtrain.co.uk


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## tanglewood3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I got my untrained 8 month foster collie last friday. The first thing I did was to get her used to a headcollar (Gencin, Halti, Gentle leader etc), because once you start teaching heelwork, you must not let them pull at all.

2-3 times a day I take her outside on an ordinary collar and lead for about 5 minutes. To start with I just stood still when the lead went taught and clicked when it went loose (doesn't matter where the dog is, it's a loose lead that counts). I then turned my body so that she came up to my left side for the titbit.

I still do as above, but instead of turning my body I hold the titbit at my left side and she goes round to get it.

I have found it better to actually hold the titbit against the back of my left leg. They can take the titbit, you go forward and as they go forward, you get a couple of steps in the right position and can click again. I don't leave my hand against my leg in between times.

You can say, 'good' instead of a click.

She is really cottoning on to the fact that it is a loose lead that is getting the click and I don't think it will be long before she starts to move into position to get the click. This from a dog who 6 days ago was supposed to pull so much she walked on her back legs.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Twiggy said:


> Collies are no more poor walkers on the lead than any other breed.
> 
> I have four and I keep them on the lead deliberately to warm up their muscles before they are allowed to charge about free running, as do many savvy owners whose dogs compete in any of the various sports.
> 
> Be determined and patient and you will get there....


Same here, our two start and finish walks on lead, mainly for warming up/cooling down, but also so they are doing some focussed walking rather than purely charging about like nutters!

Both were quite pully as pups, Scout now walks like a dream, with him I feel the lead is purely there as a safety line, he is rarely any trouble. Mira, at 18 months still has her moments, but she's getting there. She has just proven to be a lot slower to mature than her brother.

Like has been said, patience is the key. Perhaps focus a bit more on a longer road walk on the lead, with the off lead time in the fields being the reward.


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## mikey56 (Oct 21, 2017)

hi, I have a 12 month old border collie that my girlfriend and I have had since she was a puppy, we have tried to train her to walk without pulling. we have tried all the suggestions we have read on the net,
(the harness, lead on the top and on the front) (the loose collar / lead combined so when she pulls it tightens around her neck, she chokes her self but still pulls)(waking in front of her so she can not pass and pull, she just goes around the back of my legs and pulls the other way and spins me around)(shouting, talking, asking nicely to stop)(treats if she stops, no joy she is not a greedy dog)(extended lead so she can go forward a bit she runs out the full 5 meters of the lead and continues pulling)(we tried to let her off the lead but she just runs of in the opposite direction and does not come back only when I walk the other way)(telling her to sit and coming back home when she starts pulling has no affect).
any help would be gratefully appreciated. mikey


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Yes that's what most young collies would do unless they are trained and to be frank these issues should have been sorted whilst she was a puppy. Collies need to run free so she is probably very frustrated as well.

Have you thought about joining a decent local dog training class where you will be taught a reliable recall and loose lead walking in a controlled environment? Whereabouts are you as maybe one of us knows a good class/trainer in your area?


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## David101 (May 21, 2018)

Having a working dog can be challenging and pulling on the lead is not uncommon for a border collie.

Here are a few tips that I hope will help.

Think of excitement on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being asleep and 10 being erratic.

When you reach for the lead to walk the dog I can imagine this pushes your dog up to at least a 8 out of 10 on the excitement scale. It is important that you reduce this number. Stand by the dog with the lead attached and wait for the dog to calm down. Do not raise your voice to a higher pitch, do not make eye contact and do not touch your dog. Stand tall, be calm, and stand so you are closest to the door facing your dog. When it starts to calm down and is submissive you can begin your walk.

Make sure you walk out of the door first. Of course to begin with the dog will try and pull you out of the door. When this happens, calmly walk back inside, close the door and start again. Stay calm. When you walk out the door, invite the dog to the door step and make it sit. Shut your door and you can begin the walk.

Border collies are working dogs and want a job. You can put a ball into the dogs mouth. Make it the dogs job to carry the ball. This will move his focus to keeping the ball and not pulling you to the fields.

With the lead attached to the higher part of the dogs neck and with very little slack, walk in front of your dog and everytime the dog pulls to walk in front of you, stop, move in front, step in and calmly turn in towards the dog so you are facing it, without making eye contact. At this point, you should be facing in the opposite direction you were just walking and standing over the dog. Wait for 5 seconds ask your dog to sit and then when it is calm, move on. When it pulls in front again repeat these steps. Do not continue when it pulls in front, ever, it’s important you stop.

Border collies are smart and it will soon realise that moving in front of you causes the walk to stop. The movement of turning and standing over your dog shows dominance. In the wild, a pack leader will confront a dog that is trying to lead it’s pack. This movement of turning into the dog moving back towards its space, pushing it back and asking him to sit shows good strength.

You can also try, from time to time, running with the dog on the lead. This shows the dog that YOU CAN go faster if you wanted to. Show it your gears. Show it that if you wanted to go faster you could, but you are choosing to move at a walking pace it must not move in front of you.

As you progress with this technique you will be amazed at what will happen when you release the lead on a familiar lead walking route, your dog will not walk in front of you. It begins to understand that he is not alowed to be in charge of the walk.

Remember, as much as you don’t want the dog to pull, he wants to pull, think about that for a second. You want it to stop pulling, but the dog wants to get to the fields as quickly as possible. It is a super athlete and he is saying ‘c’mon, let’s get to the fields’, he is pulling you out of love. He is saying ‘we can get there faster, you can do it’. This is what you need to reset, show your dog you are walking at the pace you want to walk at and he must obey you. 

I hope this helps, good luck.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Interestingly, @David101 i have just had Tilly out with a new (to us) gundog trainer and your advice is very similar to his. And works!

I made good progress with Tilly using the clicker but in high scent areas she is still not good.
This morning, the trainer had her perfect heel walking next to him within 2 mins in a high scent area. By the walking into her space and quick check of slip lead method. He just turned left into her space and i could see her thinking' what's going on here?!'

He showed me a few techniques and doesn't want to see me again til I get that sorted as a base. So will see how we go on.

What the clicker method did have in common with this walking into the dog's space method though was improved focus from the dog.

OP - if your collie walks perfectly to heel off lead, could you not walk it to the fields at heel off lead? Or put a harness on so there is no lead attached at the neck? It wouldn't even feel a lead on it if it is attached further down its back onto a harness?


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

This is a very old thread David101 and you give very old advice. The dominance theory was debunked (by the man who wrote the original book) years ago.

Have a read - http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/why-not-dominance

Association of Professional Dog Trainers - Dominance and Training

Advice such as waiting until your dog is _submissive_ or _going through the door first _or _standing over your dog or looking to assert dominance i_s really not necessary in modern dog training. I have no interest in working with a submissive animal and most animals won't have the faintest idea what we are doing or why.



David101 said:


> In the wild, a pack leader will confront a dog that is trying to lead it's pack. This movement of turning into the dog moving back towards its space, pushing it back and asking him to sit shows good strength..


Absolute nonsense. Please read the link. The only time an animal moves into use any form of competitive language is where they are protecting resources - which is usually a mate. For the rest their ability to diffuse situations with the use of calming signals is second to non.

I am glad the method has worked for your trainer tablemable however the old Dominance theory is debunked and I would be wary of being sucked in to the old 'pack leader' myth. There are plenty of ways to teach loose lead walking without correction and dominance.

J


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks @Jamesgoeswalkies! Yes i will be careful about what way Tilly's training goes. I had been making good progress with the clicker just for street walking but I have put in hours of work and she still isn't great in most situations tbh.

This morning, the trainer noticed Tilly never looked at me once between getting out of the car and walking to the field which was annoying as i have been working on eye contact as a default behaviour with the clicker and she has been picking that up well. However, new field, lots of scent much more interesting

The trainer said before we can move onto anything, we have to sort the heelwork as she needs to know to stay at heel when a rabbit runs past her. And with his method, he had her walking right by his side within under 2 mins. No sniffing at anything. Giving him good eye contact and with no tension in the lead at all. I tried it. Same result. He definitely did not do anything that i felt was cruel at all. Yes, she had a rope slip lead on and, yes, he did give her a few firm checks on it but it was a quick check and release. About 4 checks in all and she was walking really nicely.

I didn't notice the thread was so old! I don't understand how newbies manage to pull up these ancient threads!!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

If you teach her to give to pressure then leash checks won't be needed 
If Tilly is still young I also think it is unrealistic for the trainer to expect her to walk to heel perfectly in a new environment AND with prey animals run past until her training is more solid.

She is your dog so if you are happy then just ignore me, just thought I'd say that leash pops/checks are not necessary for teaching a dog to heel


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## Guest (May 22, 2018)

David101 said:


> Having a working dog can be challenging and pulling on the lead is not uncommon for a border collie.
> 
> Here are a few tips that I hope will help.
> 
> ...


This thread is an old thread.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks @StormyThai. She isn't that young any more - her first birthday on Thursday! 
No, there were no visible prey animals in the training area - the trainer was just letting me know what is expected of a gundog, that they stay with the handler unless sent out to hunt. Until she can stay at my side with me as her main focus, we can't progress which makes sense to me. It is really hard to find gundog trainers that don't use any aversive methods whatsoever in Scotland. The Gundog Trust advocates force free but there are no trainers at all in Scotland at the moment.

I am a fairly sensible kind of person generally so I will pick out what works from various methods. If this method carries on working, she should quickly be walking by my side with no pressure. And if that doesn't happen, i will give it up and try something else.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

1 is still fairly young in my eyes, granted she isn't a puppy anymore, but she still has a few more years of maturity to go.
Leash pops work (people wouldn't still be using them otherwise), it's just there are other ways that don't include correcting.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks - I do understand what you're saying


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## David101 (May 21, 2018)

tabelmabel said:


> Interestingly, @David101 i have just had Tilly out with a new (to us) gundog trainer and your advice is very similar to his. And works!
> 
> I made good progress with Tilly using the clicker but in high scent areas she is still not good.
> This morning, the trainer had her perfect heel walking next to him within 2 mins in a high scent area. By the walking into her space and quick check of slip lead method. He just turned left into her space and i could see her thinking' what's going on here?!'
> ...


It's great you are using a clicker. It's not an easy thing to discuss in writing but I'm sure you can see how well it works as it gives instance recognition to a dogs desired behavoir.

Do you take a ball on a walk with you? See if your dog will carry a ball while on the lead. Border Collies thrive on having a job, and although it's not a hearding teqnique it still gives the brain some focus.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi @David101 I don't have a border collie (i am not the OP and didn't realise the thread was so old when i replied to your post)

I do have a working breed though - a Brittany (gundog) I do not intend to work her with live game but have tried to train her in the way of a gundog to stimulate her mind and keep her busy.

I tend to use dummies rather than a ball and keep her focused with varying levels of retrieve.

Lately I have had some recall problems and know that the only way really to proof her steadiness with game is to use a gundog facility where game are kept for this purpose.

It seems though, until I get this heelwork cracked and her focused on me at my side, i can't progress with this. Which makes sense to me.

It is going great with the new method in combo with the clicker and she is walking properly at heel at medium and fast pace but still needs work on the very slow pace. She is already looking up at me frequently as we go so am hopeful we will be able to get her heelwork to the required standard


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