# 5 year old labrador - still a pain



## ormsbrindle1 (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi there, am at the end of my tether with my 5 yr old male choc lab. He is neutered with a lovely friendly nature but is really naughty all the time. He also runs away if off lead (which comes and goes). He drinks the sea, can't be taken near rivers if there are ducks about (he eats the babies), will go into tents, caravans, shops etc looking for food. I can't take him anywhere people are eating as he lunges for them - also is constantly up on the worktops. He has plenty of exercise - now all on lead which I don't want, and is fed healthily. My vet justs finds it all highly amusing. Please don't suggest going back to basic training as he will do anything I want - as long as he is fed very tasty treats every 20 seconds. I can't relax as he is always looking for mischief and still steals the washing, chews shoes, books, etc etc etc
HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ormsbrindle1 said:


> Hi there, am at the end of my tether with my 5 yr old male choc lab. He is neutered with a lovely friendly nature but is really naughty all the time. He also runs away if off lead (which comes and goes). He drinks the sea, can't be taken near rivers if there are ducks about (he eats the babies), will go into tents, caravans, shops etc looking for food. I can't take him anywhere people are eating as he lunges for them - also is constantly up on the worktops. He has plenty of exercise - now all on lead which I don't want, and is fed healthily. My vet justs finds it all highly amusing. Please don't suggest going back to basic training as he will do anything I want - as long as he is fed very tasty treats every 20 seconds. I can't relax as he is always looking for mischief and still steals the washing, chews shoes, books, etc etc etc
> HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but I can see why your vet finds it amusing. I couldn't help laughing reading your post.

First question: What are you feeding him? He needs something that will not give him too much energy, as food can be a vital contributor to behavioural problems.

Second, and I know you don't want to hear it, but it is a case of back to basics. Of course you will have to treat him for doing the right thing until that thing is proofed and then only occasionally. It might be best if you concentrated on getting one thing exactly right so that he knows it well before moving on to the next.

I know how you feel about not taking him anywhere where people are eating. Mine are the same I'm afraid, but only if they are eating on the ground like a picnic. Anything on the ground is theirs as far as they are concerned.

Have you tried a qualified behaviourist or trainer to help you with him?


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

I have to agree with Newfiesmum...

I would go back to basics and then to faze it out, don't always treat... so then he never knows if he is going to get a treat or not. 

What food do you use? What treats do you use? Is he over weight? Underweight? Or just a piggy? 

You say plenty of exercise, but how much is that? Is he onlead, as in on a short lead, or a long line? 

Also what is your daily routine with him? How long is he left a day and how much mental stimulation does he get? How much training do you do with him (I realise his age, but it's still relevant in my opinion) 

Sorry just need a bit more information before replying properly!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Firstly, as you have already done, keep him on a short lead at all times until he is trained. Allowing him to eat ducks and run away from you will only teach him to do that, so avoid this completely by keeping him on a lead.

Secondly, how much exercise does he get? What is he fed? What training have you done with him, for example does he know sit, stay, down, leave etc, and does he know them well? Training is about improving your bond as well as making them easier to control. By training your dog, he will improve, it just takes time and patience to train them.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Can only agree with what the others have said I'm afraid. What is he being fed? How much exercise is he getting? What training do you do with him?

Unfortunately it is a matter of going back to basics and teaching him to behave whether he can see the treats or not, whether he is being rapidly fed them or not etc.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ormsbrindle1 said:


> Hi there, am at the end of my tether with my 5 yr old male choc lab. He is neutered with a lovely friendly nature but is really naughty all the time. He also runs away if off lead (which comes and goes). He drinks the sea, can't be taken near rivers if there are ducks about (he eats the babies), will go into tents, caravans, shops etc looking for food. I can't take him anywhere people are eating as he lunges for them - also is constantly up on the worktops. He has plenty of exercise - now all on lead which I don't want, and is fed healthily. My vet justs finds it all highly amusing. Please don't suggest going back to basic training as he will do anything I want - as long as he is fed very tasty treats every 20 seconds. I can't relax as he is always looking for mischief and still steals the washing, chews shoes, books, etc etc etc
> HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!


Dont know if this is any help, but soneone had a similar problem and posted a couple of days ago. Although it was a specific reply there should be some useful suggestions in there that may be of use.

The likely problem is that the more he exhibits the behaviour, ie runs off wont listen and gets what he wants ie interacts with the other dogs the more he will do it because he achieves his aim and its rewarding. Its not unusual for training to start going well and then you have a set back.

One thing that I would say is your comment about punishing him for not coming back, if a dog is punished for not coming back its not going to stop him doing it, in fact you will likely find it will stop him coming back to you, thinking how a dog does would you want to come back if you thought that you were going to get punished. You dont have any history on him either so you have no idea whats happened to him in the past as regards punishment.
As you have already said he can be hyper sensitive that could be a clue.

Its now possible that he is deaf to your voice thats why he ignores it, calling and calling can do this. Also running after them or tryng to go and get them isnt a good idea either, it doesnt take them long to figure out that they can move quicker then you can and they can just avoid you if they dont want too come back. Another no no is taking them somewhere and just letting them off, and only calling back at the end, they get wise to that as well as they know they are going home so likely to start ignoring and running off.
So if these are all things that you do, then its a good idea to stop them now.

Personally I would go back to basics, and as he is deaf too you calling now, use a whistle. You start at home with the whistle and walk around with high value treats, cheese, chicken, hotdogs, sausages anything liver based, you then blow the whistle and for each blow you treat literally whistle/treat whistle treat, he should follow you about. When thats Ok try it when he is in the garden standing by the back door, can whistle and treat when he comes.
Once thats Ok try it when he is in the garden and you are inside, if that works you are eady to take it outside.

As he knows he can run off now and ignore, I would put him on a well fitting harness and long line. He cant ignore you then and take off or avoid. When you get where you are going dont let him have freedom straight away walk awhile on a short lead. Then give him his space on the long line, call him back periodically throughout the walk, especially when you see him start to get distracted and involved with something. whistle and praise and treat him for coming each time, but then send away with go play (this keeps them guessing as they dont know when its time to go home or not). Vary the rewards sometimes praisse and treats, other times throw a ball a few times and interact in play, another whistle and run in the other direction he should chase you, others you can whistle and hide behind something, praising and treating when he finds you, another reward is to play with a ragger for a bit,
what ever the reward though always send off again with go play, this should keep interest and keep him guessing as he doesnt know what he will get.

When you have success with that, then instead of holding the long line, drop it and use it as a drag line, this way if he misses a recall you can still grab it and get him back, he still cant exercise running away and ignoring you, still do all the periodically calling him back throughout the walk and the rewards and the go play again after. When this is successful and reliable, then you can let him off again.

At first though try if you can to start at quieter times when there will be less dogs and less distraction, still doing all the same things as before, if he is k with that for a few sessions then try a bit busier times with a few more distractions and so on. If he starts to ignore again then take steps back to the beginning and use the long line/drag line again so he cant exercise the behaviour abd get back into it.

If you havent it may be an idea to think about a training class, this way he will be meeting dogs in a controlled environment but also he will be learning to focus on you with the distractions and obey commands too which will help a lot. I would also start to do sessions of training with him every day going through the basic commands, rewarding heavily when he does them. This again will improve bonding and focus on you. To fins a class in your area if you want to consider this

Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

Some dogs dont know how to relax, good things to wind him down and keep him occupied indoors too which will exercise his brain are
a good selection of chews. A lot of dogs love these and they are safe
Pure Dog | Stagbar antler dog chews | natural dog treats | organic dog snacks | hypoallergenic dog chews | long-lasting dog chews | teeth cleaning dog chews | low fat dog treats

Kongs are good too you can fill them with virtually anything from wet dog food to peanut butter see section on recipes and how to fill them to make them last, you can even put things in a freeze them for hot days.
Recipes - KongKong

These are good too you can get all sorts of types, but these are good you can fill with kibble from his allowance
Busy Buddy Twist-n-Treat - YouTube

Things like this to feed him even can make meals more interesting and occupy his brain
Buster DogMaze - YouTube


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## ormsbrindle1 (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi everyone, thanks for your posts. He is fed on Purina pro-plan light and gets at least 2 hour long walks a day, previously on and off lead, now on a long lead. He knows sit, stay, leave and come but only when it suits him and there is nothing more interesting around. He has done training and did really well, getting into the advanced class which of course was in a controlled environment so there were no food distractions. He is left for a maximum of three hours which is only about twice a week when I am at work. He has the run of the large garden at the back of the house during the summer when I am not in. I use dog biscuits for treats, and will use cheese or sausage if he goes through a bad patch. The vet thinks he is almost a special needs dog with learning difficulties as he knows how hard we try with him!! 
He is not overweight. He is basically like a giant puppy with no brain.......


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

ormsbrindle1 said:


> Hi everyone, thanks for your posts. He is fed on Purina pro-plan light and gets at least 2 hour long walks a day, previously on and off lead, now on a long lead. He knows sit, stay, leave and come but only when it suits him and there is nothing more interesting around. He has done training and did really well, getting into the advanced class which of course was in a controlled environment so there were no food distractions. He is left for a maximum of three hours which is only about twice a week when I am at work. He has the run of the large garden at the back of the house during the summer when I am not in. I use dog biscuits for treats, and will use cheese or sausage if he goes through a bad patch. The vet thinks he is almost a special needs dog with learning difficulties as he knows how hard we try with him!!
> He is not overweight. He is basically like a giant puppy with no brain.......


Okay well firstly - The food, although better than Bakers isn't great... quite a lot of fillers such as 'corn' 'wheat' 'maize' and 'rice' which make up the quantity of food but do not add anything to your dog.

I would go back to basics on the training and like I said before, sometimes treat with food, sometimes with a toy if he likes them and sometimes just with praise.

Can he do the sit stay etc in any environment? If not, try it in the house, building it up, then in the garden then out on a walk/in a field and so on.

The vet seems like a bit of an idiot. Have you thought about getting a trainer in? Or going to training classes again?


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