# drastic measures needed



## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

one of our cats is a complete fool and a nightmare. we got her, neeps, about 4 months ago to be a friend for our other cat, bubs, when our first cat boog had to be put down at the ripe old age of 5!! :"(

anyway, bubs, not the most friendly of cats to her own kind got on well with boog (probably cos all boog did was lounge about being ill and was quite slovenly of nature anyway). we liked having the 2 cats as their personalities were what we wanted in 1 cat lol. so thought bubs would like to have a friend and would hopefully give us a lappy cat. 

however, neeps is supposedly 1 y/o, i doubt it as she's far too big so i reckon 2 at the least. anyway, she's basically a dog in mentality, she likes water (so can't use that as a deterrent) she actively hunts bubs for fun(who now hates her and actively hunts her back with the object of causing as much harm as possible). Neeps isn't vicious she's just wants to PLAY, she doesn't seem to understand cat growls or bub's obvious leave me alone demeanour when she approaches to play. 

We've tried the NO, general shouting or loud noise, spray water in face, spray water on arse (you never know!), smacked rump, lock in cat carrier, lock in kitchen, lock outside. she DOESN'T get it at all. we know it's a breed thing, she's a white with tabby blobs. we've had one before with the exact same dogerisms.

felaway doesn't work cos she is as calm as she gets when she's play attacking. the only other thing we can think of is stick her straight under the shower or in a bucket of water, she's doesn't mind water but isn't too keen on the shower or being submerged (though i swear she'll jump in the bath with OH of her own accord one day).

any other suggestions? please help! as she may have to go back to the rescue centre if we can't stop her being a pest.

oh yeah, she does this with ALL the neighbour hood cats, not just bubs. they're all scared of her as they think she's attacking them.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sounds like they will never get on. the cat needs to go to a one cat only home, have you no friends or family who can have her and understand her needs instead of her going back to rescue?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> she's doesn't mind water but isn't too keen on the shower or being submerged


* you mean you've actually done it
She sounds as if she wants to be top cat to me, if she does it with all cats. Don't think she will change to be honest. Like BiaWhiska says, sounds like she needs a home with no other cats.*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i don't think they have, i hope. i thing maybe they meant she had wondered into the shower or something.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I hope not like, but it says she is'nt too keen on the shower or being submerged, so sounded like they done it to the cat before*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

you know this is why i tend to stay clear of this part of the forum. sometimes hate what i read. :nono: though hopefully the person will come back on and tell us we're wrong.


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## tonkatoy (Aug 1, 2008)

Im sure they will be along soon to explain - although - I accidently found out that one of my cats hates to be submerged (or atleast i think she does) when she decided to jump in to my jacuzzi with me in the garden this summer (there was 1 nice day you know  ) and do a lap of honor. I thought she was tucked up nicely in the house with the others but she had somehow got out god knows how. 

Any how I quickly lifted her out and shouted for help when she jumped straight back in again. 

Typical bengal im afraid.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> you know this is why i tend to stay clear of this part of the forum. sometimes hate what i read. though hopefully the person will come back on and tell us we're wrong


*Yea, know what you mean, hopefully they will

Hahaha, Tonka, we had one that did that with the bath, lol*


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## soozeej (Jun 21, 2008)

slightly off topic but I am always terrifed that the cat will end up in the bath as he is drawn to it when the kids are in and jumps up and wanders around the side! A friend told me that her cat has once jumped in to the bath when her daughter was in it and had scratched her daughter badly trying desperately to get out  don't know who got the biggest shock, the cat or the daughter


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Ouch!!, yea, it happens a lot with cats. Luckily ours have only ever done it when the bath was still filling up or I dread to think what would of happened!*


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## tonkatoy (Aug 1, 2008)

Once bitten twice shy they say (i think) most dont to it again (ignore what I said about mine obviously brain cells missing) - but can understand the worry of having your little ones in the bath when it happens


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Yea, I keep them out when the Bairns are in the bath*


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> one of our cats is a complete fool and a nightmare. we got her, neeps, about 4 months ago to be a friend for our other cat, bubs, when our first cat boog had to be put down at the ripe old age of 5!! :"(
> 
> anyway, bubs, not the most friendly of cats to her own kind got on well with boog (probably cos all boog did was lounge about being ill and was quite slovenly of nature anyway). we liked having the 2 cats as their personalities were what we wanted in 1 cat lol. so thought bubs would like to have a friend and would hopefully give us a lappy cat.
> 
> ...


Oh my....i cannot believe you would even think of sticking her in a bucket of water! : Thats just plain cruel!

I'm sorry, but she's just being a cat! Cats like to play and hunt. Maybe she would be better off elsewhere - in a one cat only household.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

she is a fool, she's thick as mince this one. we had another one the same breed and he was even worse, we had to send him back to the rescue as despite how cute he was and how much we wanted to keep the poor git, he was too much hassle for us, specially as we weren't in as much as he needed it wasn't fair for him or our other cat.

she's not fighting, she is literally playing with the other cats. no amount of "no's" or water spraying is going to sort her out.

jesus, i can see this forums not much better than the fancy rats. i've NOT stuck her in a bucket of water, she's too big to fit lmao. She likes having taps turned on on her, just not the shower, i think it's the noise. do remember not ALL cats are afraid of water! as i said she's basically a dog in cat-fur. :

the only mate we have that could take her has ex-hunting beagles, i don't think neeps would survive very long.

anyway, she's not a bad cat, she just can't control herself, i was hoping someone could give me some advice on how to stop her attacking bubs, i dont' care about the other neighbourhood cats, they can fend for themselves. but we want to keep neeps as she's a lovely cat when she's behaving.

anyone else able to shed some tips?


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

I personally think that if you cannot handle her and your other cat cannot also, then i would find her a no other cat household x preferably one where she has human company that will adore her for who she is x


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

If she's just "playing" with the other cats, I don't see why there's a problem? 

I must say it though that it sounds like she is actually attacking them, so that counts as fighting in my book 

and I agree with the others that she probably needs a home where she can be the only cat, preferably in a safe location so she can have some time outside. 

I presume she has been spayed?


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i'll be trying a cat behavioural book first before i give her up.

she's a rescue cat so yes, she's been done.

lous, i was asking for behaviour advice on how to get her to at least play less, not stop completely, she is always on attack alert, anything that moves is fair game, luckily that means spiders also, bonus.
aspersions against our ability to handle her isn't going to help me try to sort out a behavioural problem. we do love her for her but she needs to stop playing 24/7, she literally does nothing else.

i was hoping for some good insights into other folks ways of dealing with problem cats that would be friends with bubs once she stops using her as her main toy, bubs gets on with other cats she knows fine, she just doesn't like neeps because of the attacking, they got on well to begin with until neeps settled in.
she isn't ATTACKING in the true sense of the word, she isn't trying to assert her dominance, she IS playing, she is just abit retarded about it, she gets very excited by anything that moves. 

so far i've been villified for treating my cat they way i know she can handle, but no-ones offered any advice other than giving her away, v-helpful. come on guys someones got to have at least one idea. we can't be the only people with a problem cat.


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## binxycat (Mar 15, 2008)

Just a thought, but do you have toys for her that may stop her treating your other cat (or you) as a plaything? I seen some links here for various cat toys, "Da Bird" is one I've seen mentioned - I'm sure someone here could comment..
My youngest cat cries for attention constantly and the only way we can pacify him (apart frpm huge quantities of food and kitten milk!) is to play with him or give him something to chase round. He's particuarly fond of a little remote control car!!
Good luck with the naughty girl


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Well apart from the fact that you call her a fool and the likes to be honest i didn't think you loved her all that much x 

If she's asserting herself against your other cat then it means she'd rather be an only cat, simple as x other than things like feliway to promote a bigger sense of calm or using water sprays to deter, generally if a cat is attacking another cat and making it stressed out then it means they'd rather be an only cat x

sometimes the solution isn't always the one you want to hear i'm sorry to tell you x

i have one myself and nothing i have ever done (and believe me i know my cat behaviours!!) is going to stop her from batting my others when theyre in her way and invading her space - i either have to give her the time away from them so she doesn't do it or i rehome her - i know this x she is dominant, wants to play with everything and generally i swear tries to wind me up on occasion so it's not as if i can't be sympathetic to your plights, just i know i'm limited to what i can do for her x


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## Tasha (Sep 23, 2008)

I have a cat that behaves like this much to do with the fact she was removed from her mum too soon and dumped I also have two cats who regularly join me in the shower one of which will throw herself at the door until it opens to get in!!!!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

It sounds like you dont really like yr cat to be honest! (why would you call him a fool!) 

Personally i think this cat would be better off being rehomed to someone who truly cares and has the time to invest in this cat, which you obviously dont. You ask for advice but from what you have said it sounds to me like just being a normal cat!!! and as for dunking under the water ....well that's just cruel.:frown5:


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## Chelocoonz (Sep 6, 2008)

I couldn't agree more with the above .Suzy


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## Spudmols (Sep 17, 2008)

Firstly i have a cat and a kitten and my kitten is always stalking my cat almost as if she is looking for a fight all the time.
This behaviour is just normal, all they do is play fight with each other.
Unless they are drawing blood or gauging out eyeballs you dont have anything to worry about.
Make sure both of the cats have there own space to retreat too, if you have to just split them up for a time. 
Not all cats are going to be bestfriends unfortunately.
How long have they been together they still may not have established rankings etc.

Also completely agree with everyone else your cat is not a fool, how would you like it if we referred to you as a fool, especially for holding your poor cat above the bath on purpose just to see how he reacts.

You may actually be causing the problem here by not being nice to him so he thinks you hate him and will just carry on the behaviour just to annoy you.

Therefore you may find one day you will have a cat that is the complete opposite and will always hide away and never come out.
I think if you are finding it hard to deal with him you should take him back to a rescue centre and let him be rehomed to someone who will love him and treat him right


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> she is a fool, she's thick as mince this one. we had another one the same breed and he was even worse, we had to send him back to the rescue as despite how cute he was and how much we wanted to keep the poor git, he was too much hassle for us, specially as we weren't in as much as he needed it wasn't fair for him or our other cat.
> 
> she's not fighting, she is literally playing with the other cats. no amount of "no's" or water spraying is going to sort her out.
> 
> ...


Right, well.... you have come on a cat LOVING forum so please accept you will find some people pertubed and somewhat put off when you refer to your cat as a 'fool' and 'thick as mince' 

I have a very enthusiastic and crazy 6 month old kitten; Baxter. He plays non stop, launches himself at me, my hubby and more often than not the curtains but i wouldnt want to change him for the world. He knackers himself out, sleeps for 10 mins and away he goes again  He also likes to climb on his brother and bat him for 10 mins, nibble his ear, smell his butt and annoy him till Barney plays back - again i would never try and stop this! they love it, this is what cats do!

I would never try to limit a cats playtime, nor punish him for playing too much - he's a cat......cats = FUN!


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

I would never call my cats anything else but thier names or nicknames. And to call your cat a fool it sounds to me that you have no respect for your cat. And as for asking if it is ok to submerge her in a bucket of water or hold her under a shower to punish her for doing what cats do. Would you punish a human baby for playing too rough with thier sibling by submerging them in water? (I think not!) So why ask if its ok to do it to your cat? If you dont like the rough and tumble of cats *DONT!!* have one. I think she will be better off in a new home where she is not at risk of any of the things you are threatening to do to stop her running round and playing  Maybe your other cat is not ready for a new companion.

Not all cats will get on i also don't think it is fair of you to keep rescuing them from a centre then sending them back just because they dont fit in. Cats get upset very easily and they could develop problems in the future as a result of so much upset and upheavel. I am very surprised and shocked that the rescue centre are allowing you to continue to do that. :mad5:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

right, none of you know me, so i'll make it very clear.

I love my cats, i call neeps a fool cos she IS VERY VERY STUPID i've owned a few cats in my life and only one has been more stupid (due top previous owner dehydrating him almost to death and causing brain and internal organ damage, hence why we had to give back to foster lady, who has kept him). Call me a fool all you want folks, but a) i don't know you and so couldn't care less what you call me, b) if you knew me you'd know it's affectionate, WE called HER (btw, not him) neeps cos she's thick as mince (neeps and tatties). If i didn't love neeps i wouldn't bother asking for advice would I? I would just have sent her back to rescue and got a new cat. just cos i'm using names/words that you personally don't agree with, doesn't mean i'm cruel to my pets and should banned from owning any.

she only play attacks bubs when there is space to do so, they both sleep in our kitchen and no fighting goes on in there, too small. the 'attacking' IS PLAY, but when they're not at it they ignore each other or sleep together on the bed or setee, so there is the ability for them to get on. 
we have heaps of toys and we play with neeps alot, all you have to do is drag somethign on the floor and she's away you can still give the telly your full attention and play with her for hours, or give her your full attention and play with her for hours and she STILL uses bubs as target practice.

we have had presents (dead mice  yay, so far abit annoyed nothign larger has been caught she's big enough to bring rabbits down i'm waiting for my rabbit pie opportunity!  ) she loves being round us and is very affectionate is a very lappy cat and follows the oh around when he is cleaning. she sits on the bath mat when oh is in the bath to keep him company. if our 'bad' treatment of her was affecting her she wouldn't be bringing us presents or wanting to sit on our laps for face scritches.

we don't care when she climbs the curtains (which is highly amusing as she also climbs back down), or wants to play with us etc, but the full on wwf launch off the top of the couch on to bubs is abit much. even if it is also very amusing to watch.

we merely want to calm her down abit, an hour less of play attacks a day would be fine!

aud's mum, my cats aren't related and so don't have that bond, bubs is a tabby siamese with a mean streak a mile wide, as i said she's blooded the local giant tom cat who is 3 times her size, he runs away the moment he see's her. we don't want her doing the same to neeps just for playing. Most of the time she close paws her back to get her to back off, but about once a month bubs takes fur, and neeps still thinks its a game. bub's gets along with other cats, but neeps annoys her too much. she hated oscar (the brain damaged one) becuase like neeps (same white with tabby spots colouring) acted like neeps does but 10 times worse, we could see they would never get on and gave him back. slightly different with neeps as they do get on when neeps is being lazy.

see... if this isn't 'foolish' behaviour i don't know what is, she can't discern other cat's body language or noises to mean anything other than play, see.

we do reckon her 3 main thoughts are food, play and nomnomnom (she will mouth anything). 

i also don't think you's quite understand just now taken by water neeps is, holding her over the bath was imho a good and easy way of finding out if she was going to jump in with the oh, who wouldn't take to kindly to being clawed in the danglies. she wasn't scared, she wasn't traumatised, she wiggled to say no, like she does when we hold her for too long, then sat on the bath mat looking for harvestmen to eat. She loves the TAP being turned on when she's under it for god sake, she goes out in TORRENTIAL RAIN. 

thanks to the ones that have, or haven't jumped down my throat btw  remote control car sounds good! fun for all the family!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Purrfect,

what the hell are you on about? i didn't ask if it was ok to do that to her, i said that i'd turned the shower on accidentaly while she was behind the closed curtain, i was about to get in the shower. did you ACTUALLY READ what i said or just what other folk have written after they misconstrued my posts?

We've only returned ONE cat, oscar, we hoped bubs would like him as she was obviously pining for boog. but oscar was soo badly brain and organ damaged by his previous owner leaving him to die, he was too badly damaged and we weren't in enough to care for him as he needed and wanted. we felt that it was in his own best interest to be returned to the foster lady to be rehomed as the only cat (dogs would get on with him) or put on their unhomable list. I wrote a 2 page 'all about oscar' should they try to rehome him so that the next folk and the rescue centre knew exactly what he liked and hated and how he liked things etc. We soo wanted to keep him but bubs got annoyed by his constant staring.

does that sound like a calous animal hater to you? don't ASSUME you know everything, i didn't give you the full story, but i can see that i'm going to have to spell everything out to you lot as you're taking everything out of context and vilifying me for talking and being me basically. 

how about she's not a fool, she's just not the brightest button in the box; she's not got behavioural problems, she's just got a mistaken identity complex (she thinks she's a puppy). 

I dunno about you lot, but my cat's dont understand english or scottish, so when i call either of them a fool, she understands my tone of voice which is affectionate, when i say i'm going to make her into mittens or cat kebabs, it's usually cos i'm cold and shes soooo very cosy, or hungry and she's cute enough to eat, and i say that giving her face scritches. 

the rats get the same treatment, rats are shoulder pillows, rat kebabs, mittens (we have 8 so plenty of fur!), floor polishers etc etc.

we're JOKING when we say that stuff, that's HOW WE ARE. i'm NOT going to change my personality or coloquialisms simply cos you's don't know me and possibly find it offensive.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

I am not disputing you love your animals, or else (like you said before) would you be asking for advice on here. The 'tone' of your posts are not friendly, nor welcoming which is why a few people are getting a little fed up of your name calling to your cats.

Mine have all the toys in the world but dont play with them - Baxter gets bored very easily which is when he starts to pester his brother. I dont really know if there is a way of stopping this, thats why a few people have suggested rehoming neeps. She sounds like she needs alot of attention, and may be jealous of your relationship with bubs?

Do they have a cat tree / activity centre?

When Baxter climbs up the curtains i say 'NO' sternly and lift him down - i did this 100 times yesterday and i think he started to get the message. He contemplated it a few times, and then walked away.

If i can see him getting bored and restless, i go and open a few doors so he can go exploring. I dont know if this is something you can do?


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## Chelocoonz (Sep 6, 2008)

Cats are beautiful animals and the most loving ever if treated with the respect they deserve .perhaps the cat is having problems as it is picking up vibes from you .


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

If it helps i've called one of my cats a fool so i guess i don't love my cats  sorry. I called her it because she was being very silly and clumbsy. I wasn't offending anyone cuz it's my own home so no one could be offened. Hay Ho...

I think it's good you're giving you cat a chance but do think she may be best off as an only cat prehaps where she can have all the attention.

ps. my old cat monty would actually jump in the bath and paddle. i'd let him have a bath now and then  and like your cat loved to be out in the rain, snow, hail, wind!

PPS: I also tell my cats i'm gonna skin the and use their furr as a blanket or turn them into a glove puppet but prehaps some people just think it's serious, as you say cats don' understant english


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

thanks biawhiska, glad i'm not the only one! lol

READ MY POSTS PLEASE folks, we have toys, we play with her extensively, we feed her, will take her to the vets should she need it etc etc etc.

the cats have a cat flap that is open during the day and closed only at night when we go to bed as there are boy racers that use our main road as a drag strip at about 1am so don't let them out.

I do my best not to be biased, prejudiced or racist, i am however human and sometimes may say something without thinking, i ain't perfect.

Please folks i'm talking about animals, again you're insinuating and putting words in my mouth without even knowing me. If you actually knew me and said this to my face i would take you seriously but as you've only read my posts and taken to your high horses from their, i'm going to defend myself as much as possible. I cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time, and while i do not wish to cause offense i am just being me. if you can't hack it don't read anything i say, simple as. i'm abit like topgear, if you know i'm going to offend you, switch over read something else.

yes cats will feel my 'vibes' as you put it by why when i'm being affectionate would that upset them? why would i split up 2 cats who have the potential to get along together, when a bit of training is all it needs to calm one of them down? i can't win, keeping her is cruel, giving ANOTHER cat away is cruel.

All i can say now is:

MODS PLEASE LOCK/DELETE THIS THREAD, before i get annoyed and start garroting back.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

before it gets locked good luck with her


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

As you say we dont know you, so how do we know from something that you have written that it is said in a jokey way, perhaps you should think about that:nono:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

thanks biowhiska 

i've ordered a kitty behavioural book, hopefull that will help us figure out why she's on contant play alert!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

hope so. i have some books but just makes me cats seem even more crazy lol... crazy, more PC on this forum :cornut: or mental maybe? hell i've seen loads of shrinks for my "issues" of what happened to me when i was young but don't care if people call me names, i know it's just in jest and if it ain't then.. oh well, lol :tongue:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i think neeps has issues of somekind, as she is literally in hunting mode (play or otherwise) except when asleep. every little movement is interesting, she's like a shark, non stop investigating. I'm hoping the book will give me abit more insight as to ways to calm her down. that way bubs can enjoy the attacks rather than watching out for the next one ALL the time. if bubs was that bothered the blood letting would begin. she's not shy cat when it comes to letting her feelings be known.

We don't know anything of her background or former owners, how many she had etc, so sorting her out could be quite time consuming  i'm looking forward to the challenge


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

got any piccys of her?


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

erm.. i think the husband has most of them on his laptop, he's SUPPOSED to be sending them to me but never does  evil wotsit!

will beat him up till i get them  then stick some on here maybe


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

:thumbup: cool.... esp the beating up your husband, lol


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

owieprone said:


> one of our cats is a complete fool and a nightmare. we got her, neeps, about 4 months ago to be a friend for our other cat, bubs, when our first cat boog had to be put down at the ripe old age of 5!! :"(
> 
> anyway, bubs, not the most friendly of cats to her own kind got on well with boog (probably cos all boog did was lounge about being ill and was quite slovenly of nature anyway). we liked having the 2 cats as their personalities were what we wanted in 1 cat lol. so thought bubs would like to have a friend and would hopefully give us a lappy cat.
> 
> ...


Sorry to be blunt but given your obvious lack of understanding of any cats nature and the punishments you seem fit to dish out then i think maybe rethinking if your any pet person would be the answer and i wholeheartedly agree that you should rehome them both and maybe get a cuddly toy pet to be honest,i am not sure if your taking the mick or serious with what you have posted and neither are funny or understandable,you as the human are supposed to have more intelligence,understanding and compassion and the patience to love,nurture and care for these superb creatures all of which it seems you are lacking in heaps!


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## Purrrrfect (Sep 10, 2008)

owieprone said:


> Purrfect,
> 
> what the hell are you on about? i didn't ask if it was ok to do that to her, i said that i'd turned the shower on accidentaly while she was behind the closed curtain, i was about to get in the shower. did you ACTUALLY READ what i said or just what other folk have written after they misconstrued my posts?
> 
> ...


So your telling me you didn't say you would put her in a bucket of water and no one else who has read this thread seen you say that and commented.



> felaway doesn't work cos she is as calm as she gets when she's play attacking. the only other thing we can think of is stick her straight under the shower or in a bucket of water, she's doesn't mind water but isn't too keen on the shower or being submerged (though i swear she'll jump in the bath with OH of her own accord one day).


hhmmmm


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

I've been meaning to reply to this for some time but either been at work or thought the thread was dying a natural death.

However I don't see anything in the OP's threads that gives cause for concern - it is a manner of speech. He calls his cat a fool and Neeps, I call my cat stupid, dolt, daft - means the same just different language for a different era.

(My just out of teens sons use wicked - this word seems to have changed its meaning from 'brilliant' to 'not good' - English is an evolving language....)


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Janee said:


> I've been meaning to reply to this for some time but either been at work or thought the thread was dying a natural death.
> 
> However I don't see anything in the OP's threads that gives cause for concern - it is a manner of speech. He calls his cat a foo and Neeps, I call my cat stupid, dolt, daft - means the same just different language for a different era.
> 
> (My just out of teens sons use wicked - this word seems to have changed its meaning from 'brilliant' to 'not good' - English is an evolving language....)


Yes J,that for me at least isn't really an issue as such it's the whole post,i have affectionate names for our girls and guys on occasion and my human kids too and Sick i do believe has replaced wicked according to my 8 yr old


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

owieprone said:


> i think neeps has issues of somekind, as she is literally in hunting mode (play or otherwise) except when asleep. every little movement is interesting, she's like a shark, non stop investigating. I'm hoping the book will give me abit more insight as to ways to calm her down. that way bubs can enjoy the attacks rather than watching out for the next one ALL the time. if bubs was that bothered the blood letting would begin. she's not shy cat when it comes to letting her feelings be known.
> 
> We don't know anything of her background or former owners, how many she had etc, so sorting her out could be quite time consuming  i'm looking forward to the challenge


First lets get one thing straight i will read a thread and make my own conclusions thank you very much! you dont read something and automatically think - oh that is said in a jokey way!

Secondly - if you want to be politically correct then what is "normal"?

My cat loves following me outside, similar to a dog - walking with me - and sometimes brings sticks etc home! - behaviour similar to a dog - but i have NEVER thought ooooh my cat is abnormal there must be something wrong! all animals as indeed humans have their own disticnt personalities so to say your cat is not normal - what does that mean? - and why do you need a behaviour book? you sound like you have already made a diagnosis of your cats behaviour - i think your cat is just being "a cat" that perhaps needs a bit of time to adjust to being with another cat, simple as that - you are making it far more complicated than it need be.

Thirdly - I am not judging you,as a person you have the right as do i to do and say whatever you want but when you come on a forum dont expect everybody to agree with you!

Lastly you need to take your own advice and not jump down other peoples throat - which i think you have in some of your replies.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

This thread has now been moderated (heavily) to remove all offensive wording so some posts will appear very different although I think I have the general meaning left in them.. (I hope )

I did have a pm off the OP who asked me to close it completely however I feel that she has a genuine problem with this cat, which some of our cat members could help her with, instead of the cat being returned to the rescue. I also feel that the OP didnt actually mean what was 'read into' the posts, perhaps the use of smilies etc when she is joking would have helped.

Please give Owieprone a chance to prove that she wants the best for her cat and that it was just a mis-understanding of translation from brain to fingers  sometimes what we type isnt necessarily what me mean and as we cannot see the persons face or know the persons personality we do not interpret what they are typing correctly.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i said i DISLIKE pc. Please read my posts carefully, they are being missed or misread.

i've never said, told, intonated or expected anyone to agree with me. 

sorry, but what is wrong with getting a behavioural book to see if her actions are an actual problem or not? surely this is the best course of action? We've not made up our mind about her behaviour being an actual problem (again, you assume) which is why i was asking for advice.

But if you think play attacking strange cats that she's never met before, despite them giving her warnings off is normal for a cat. being on full alert for movement 24/7 unless in a confined space, she sits/lies on the sofa with us and will hone in on ANYTHING that moves isn't healthy. she LITERALLY has to be fully asleep (not napping) to not be interested by anything moving. i've never had a cat/dog that doesn't switch the play button off, my sisters have owned well over 20 of cats of various breeds and none of these had this problem. 

a cat being unable or unwilling to read other cats postures and vocals isn't a good sign, she will one day, meet one she can't 'beat' and she will get injured as a result as she WILL NOT STOP PLAYING.

thanks tashi and any other mods involved.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

As she is a rescue you have no idea really what socialisation she had as an infant, or how early she was taken from her Mum. If she really is just playing, and it sounds as if she is, then it will be difficult to change her behaviour, she isn't really doing anything 'wrong'. Lot's of kittens [and age 1 she is still very young] are very boisterous and that can be annoying for older , more settled cats.
Some structured play sessions would be good with you and your OH playing toys with her, but without getting her so wound up she gets OTT.
A good , sturdy cat tree to give her something to climb, when she's indoors.
A panic mouse type toy that will play with her when you are busy [the electric ones?]
Putting some extra beds around in out of the way spots so that your quieter cat has a place to withdraw when she's had enough.
Basically accepting that you took in a rescue, and that they are more or less bound to have some quirks as they have not had the ideal entry into the world. It might be too late for her now to significantly improve her social skills, but distracting her focus away from your other cat for a portion of each day and respecting that she is probably doing the best she can might help alleviate stress.
There is a behaviourist at Cat Planet - Home who might have some advice for you if you email
Cat Planet - Feline Fixits Behaviour Consultants


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

we were told she was 1 (which was a guess), but i seriously doubt it, she's not going to be getting any bigger and she's not kitteny in any shape of form of the word physically. we think she's more likely to be around 2.

you can't play with neeps without her going OTT, we do play with her everyday alot with toys, we leave 'worms' (ribbons etc) around for her to play with. we let her eat the spiders in the house, she chases fluff, she attacks the bottom of the curtains, she has a giant catnip mouse that if we throw near her she'll nom for hours on end. she attacks my bag and jackets (which aren't moving, she likes biting the handles and flappy bits). she watches our hands and feet, you have to be careful with those as their fair game. You can't wear her out with playing. she can be playing with us, bubs walks by and she ignores us and plays with bubs instead. she has a short attention span for toys, she prefers real things taht play back. we've now got a remote control mouse, but on our carpet it's just not strong enough to move well.

at 2 y/o i would be very surprised if we couldn't amend her behaviour. Whatever is the cause of her constant playful state, it should be rectifiable.

she's not a great climber, but she has fences and trees to climb, and my cars. we don't have a big house so extra kitty beds and large cat climbing things for the cats are out of the question. they have 2 scratch posts which they don't use alot.

they have about 13 hours of open catflap and a plethora of mice 10 metres from the house to hunt, and much to neeps delight tons of local cats to harass. they both come in when we come home and get played with then.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

If the scratch posts are too small now they're grown they probably won't use them.
A vet would probably have checked her teeth when she was rescued and that would have allowed them to estimate her age quite accurately. 
The panic mouse will not be bothered by a carpet, it's an electric fishing rod type of toy.
The behaviourist link is there if you want it, but if she is just being young and playful she may not change her 'constant playful behaviour' until she grows up. This is always something to be considered when taking on a new cat if you have cats already.
I'm not suggesting you 'wear her out' with playing, you asked advice about giving your other cat a break. If she's playing with you she's not bothering your cat.
You don't need lots of space in your house to be able to give your older cat some refuge, a small bed upstairs doesn't take up a lot of room.

Cat Toys by PanicMouse Incorporated


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

slip a valium into her drinking water :ihih:

*A JOKE TO THOSE WHO TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY* rrr:


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> we were told she was 1 (which was a guess), but i seriously doubt it, she's not going to be getting any bigger and she's not kitteny in any shape of form of the word physically. we think she's more likely to be around 2.
> 
> you can't play with neeps without her going OTT, we do play with her everyday alot with toys, we leave 'worms' (ribbons etc) around for her to play with. we let her eat the spiders in the house, she chases fluff, she attacks the bottom of the curtains, she has a giant catnip mouse that if we throw near her she'll nom for hours on end. she attacks my bag and jackets (which aren't moving, she likes biting the handles and flappy bits). she watches our hands and feet, you have to be careful with those as their fair game. You can't wear her out with playing. she can be playing with us, bubs walks by and she ignores us and plays with bubs instead. she has a short attention span for toys, she prefers real things taht play back. we've now got a remote control mouse, but on our carpet it's just not strong enough to move well.
> 
> ...


Just an idea but would maybe a herbal treatment work??? Our local Petshop (doesnt sell animals) has a whole range of herbal, holistic and natural remedies etc for animals.......I'm sure they have a herbal liquid in a syringe type thing that is for calming......If you'd like me find out let me know as i pass it every evening.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

One thing that may help - if she's overly playful i wouldn't give her too many catnip toys - i have to keep those sorts of toys away from a few of mine who are more playful - it sends them completely nuts!! lol xx

maybe crinkly toys instead - they're pretty good for keeping a cats attention for a little longer xx


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

No if it has to be syringed down her gullet then it's no good. that's for medicine for short term only, i'm not putting her through forced mouth syringing.

someone else has already suggested camomile tea, gonna try that as both cats steal our tea anyway, will be easy to get them to drink it... leave it unattended for 2 seconds... cat face in cup.

I'm also very wary of herbal/holistic stuff from shops with attendants i don't personally know, my muminlaw had a very bad episode with some herbal stuff a while back after being told to take a dose everyday as directed on the bottle, she figured out what it was and stopped taking it, luckily as it could cause some organ damage. if whatever had an adverse or damaging effect on the cat it could be too hard to tell until too late.

tea's fine as she will drink that herself but tablets etc aren't workable in the long term and will stress her out as she'll quickly figure out what's in store when we get home and avoid us. it was bad enough putting boog through that sort of stuff when she was ill, i'm not doing it to a cat that it may not even help.

i'll also try kitty vitamins. also neeps has a very senstive digestive tract so we have to be careful what she eats or she will stink of poo and won't get cuddles, which isn't fair on her.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

the catnip giant mouse is the ONLY toy she plays with for ages, she likes licking it's fur and it has a crinkly tail that she likes biting. it holds her attention for far longer than any other toy, and away from bubs.

bub's isn't affected by catnip so its relatively safe to have it floating around the house for neeps to attack.

also catnip mouse hasn't made her any more manic than she was before


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## binxycat (Mar 15, 2008)

Oh owieprone! I'm sitting here in the relative calm cos the mogs are asleep and my 17 year old daughter is out!! How is the little lady doing?? 
I think we all need to see some pics of neeps, betcha she has a naughty face, my vet thinks that my cat Toby has one, and YES he does together with a don't give a s**t attitude!
Cats are so damn clever, they can wind you round your little finger or whatever body part they can get their paws on!
Neeps sounds like a brilliaint, funny, clever, knowing, charismatic (running out of adjectives here!) pussum, enjoy her and laugh that's what we do with our three, life was real dull before we had them..
Let us know how you get on with her, bless....


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

they've both had their dose of camomile tea last nite, had to stop neeps from drinking the whole bowl in one go and making herself sick, she loves the stuff! weirdo cat.

i'll check out how to stick photos in get both of them up here for you's to croon over 

was playing with neeps last nite with a 'worm' and bubs decided it was also interesting, they took turns attacking it, then bubs decided that it was hers and smacked neeps right off the face! neeps for once sat down and looked sad! was very cute, didn't last tho, seconds later she was jumping on worm and getting in bub's way.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

OP, maybe look online at Ainsworth.co.uk and speak to a qualified homeopath about some sort of rescue remedy that is tasteless and can be added to her water,i'm sure their will be a remedy that works and suits,it just may take some time,i know she is a rescue and has been spayed but are you absolutley sure as sometimes they themselves can make mistakes


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

can barely afford physio for myself mate, certainly not going to fork out for holistic treatment for my cat.

and again, with her sensitive stomach i wouldn't want to try edible stuff with her incase it upset it. She can be overpowering with the smell of poo if she eats something she shouldn't, or has normal cat food. Tesco "peas" do the job nicely, we can't even feed her the canin sensitive food as both her and neeps pig out on it, and won't shut up till we feed them again. wouldn't want to even think about what something in her water could do.

same dude spayed neeps and the other 2 cats and all the other rescue cats from our prefered rescue lady, doubt he's made a mistake. besides she'd be preggers by now if she wasn't. loads of tom cats in our area, we've had her 4 month's plus, no way she wouldn't be by now.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> can barely afford physio for myself mate, certainly not going to fork out for holistic treatment for my cat.
> 
> and again, with her sensitive stomach i wouldn't want to try edible stuff with her incase it upset it. She can be overpowering with the smell of poo if she eats something she shouldn't, or has normal cat food. Tesco "peas" do the job nicely, we can't even feed her the canin sensitive food as both her and neeps pig out on it, and won't shut up till we feed them again. wouldn't want to even think about what something in her water could do.
> 
> same dude spayed neeps and the other 2 cats and all the other rescue cats from our prefered rescue lady, doubt he's made a mistake. besides she'd be preggers by now if she wasn't. loads of tom cats in our area, we've had her 4 month's plus, no way she wouldn't be by now.


mmm....this is a difficult one.....but how about adding a 3rd cat?? Maybe a younger one so neeps has someone to play with who will play back and put her in her place??


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

our house isn't big enough for 3 cats, we have just enough room for 2 beds in front of the hall radiator (teeny hall) no room in the kitchen for their beds (no room for a bin! rubbish kitchen) 3 cats would just be insane! lol we also have 8 rats and a giant cage in our second bedroom. 

neeps can't be trusted to share the same room as the rats as her nose or rats tails will be lost. bubs is fine with the rats but obviously we can't leave the door open etc. 

i don't want them in our room cos they leave fur on my pillow!! aaaarg! i hate that, i breath it and it annoys me! dunno why but my sides the best for kittys to sleep on 

also we had to wait a long time before we got neeps as mary (our rescue lady) had to make sure the cat she gave us got along with other cats. many of the ones she gets aren't suitable for 'sharing'. we were a one cat household for about 4 months before we got neeps, and bubs was definately missing having a friend, she wasn't herself at all.

i had suggested a 3rd to the oh but like me doesn't think the house is big enough, maybe if we ever get a bigger house. although a 3rd cat might mean no adopted kid for me! lol


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> our house isn't big enough for 3 cats, we have just enough room for 2 beds in front of the hall radiator (teeny hall) no room in the kitchen for their beds (no room for a bin! rubbish kitchen) 3 cats would just be insane! lol we also have 8 rats and a giant cage in our second bedroom.
> 
> neeps can't be trusted to share the same room as the rats as her nose or rats tails will be lost. bubs is fine with the rats but obviously we can't leave the door open etc.
> 
> ...


I started with two, then one and now have 3 lol!!! We live in a 2 bed bungalow so our house is teeny too - hubby said "Well you've got two, i dont see how 3 can make a difference!!"

My theory is that two cats can become dependant on eachother (or the owner), at least with 3 they all have options who / which cat to play with. All of mine have very different personalities, so they all get either play time or quiet time with eachother!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

we've gotta 2 bed terrace, while the bedrooms are double, the actual house itself is pretty teeny and we only have a back garden, having one mate round makes the place seem miniscule!

if we didn't have the rats, 3 cats wouldn't be aproblem as they would have the 2nd bedroom, but with no garage we can't move the rats anywhere that we can shut the cats out of. we did have them in the shed but temperature problems stopped us doing that and now there's no room lol.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> we've gotta 2 bed terrace, while the bedrooms are double, the actual house itself is pretty teeny and we only have a back garden, having one mate round makes the place seem miniscule!
> 
> if we didn't have the rats, 3 cats wouldn't be aproblem as they would have the 2nd bedroom, but with no garage we can't move the rats anywhere that we can shut the cats out of. we did have them in the shed but temperature problems stopped us doing that and now there's no room lol.


Ah fair enough! Cats are addictive though aren't they?

How did the chammomile tea work?

I have to say with regards to the herbal remedies, the shop near me has a great reputation and i used to give Audrey a herbal liquid (in her water) to help with her cat flu (herpes virus). Obviously i didnt want her on it long term but it certainly helped in picking her up. They do various brochures - i can send you one if you like so at least you can have a read of it??


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i felt horrible last nite, neeps was wanting company but i was off to bed (11.30) poor fozbutt really wanted to stay with me  so much so that she wouldn't get out of the sink while i was attempting to brush my teeth!

i think the tea is working she seems faaar more sedate.

is it just a local shop or is it a branch of a company?


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## Chelocoonz (Sep 6, 2008)

Keep going with the tea after awhile im sure you will see such a difference Ive used it for one of mine and I can say it do work believe me ,it also helps upset tums .x


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

she loves the tea, thanks for the tip chris  we actually have to make sure she doesn't drink too much.

i think it's already making a difference, and if it helps her rubbish constitution even better, her nickname is poo-cat when she's smelly, poor monster.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> i felt horrible last nite, neeps was wanting company but i was off to bed (11.30) poor fozbutt really wanted to stay with me  so much so that she wouldn't get out of the sink while i was attempting to brush my teeth!
> 
> i think the tea is working she seems faaar more sedate.
> 
> is it just a local shop or is it a branch of a company?


Its called Healthy Option Pet Food Stores. I know they have a branch in Lancashire as well. They 'design' and make their own cat & Dog foods, and sell organic and natural products too.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

owieprone said:


> she loves the tea, thanks for the tip chris  we actually have to make sure she doesn't drink too much.
> 
> i think it's already making a difference, and if it helps her rubbish constitution even better, her nickname is poo-cat when she's smelly, poor monster.


Hi OP, maybe try her and your other cats on a more fresher,natural diet such as white chicken ie no skin,fish,tuna,sardines mixed with a little pouch food. It's actually a lot cheaper than supermarket pouches and better for them and something they could all eat,so your not spending loads and your not doing different meals for them allEither way good luck with your cats and hope a happy solution that suits all is found soon


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

LANCASHIRE! lol faaar too far away, i'm in oxfordshire. and that shop sounds well expensive. 

we don't feed the cats wet food, it's all dry and they both eat the same, only lucy is allowed any treats (like bits of our dinner) and we make sure she only gets them when neeps isn't around to see.

we can't have two different foods as neeps is a glutton and will eat anything, bubs eats small amounts at a time so we couldn't leave her food out for her and expect it to be there when she went back. 

neeps also can't have a fresher natural/ or wet diet as it will make her smell, i expect it will also make her more uncomfortable, she dislikes being picked up if you put your hand(s) on her belly. royal canin senstive, and other such high end dry foods have made her smell alot more. relatively rubbish (shops own tescos premium "peas" as we call it) food seems to be processed better by her guts and she doesn't smell overpoweringly of poo. and lucy is happy to eat it too (although used to miss out the green bits, hence "peas").


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

owieprone said:


> LANCASHIRE! lol faaar too far away, i'm in oxfordshire. and that shop sounds well expensive.
> 
> we don't feed the cats wet food, it's all dry and they both eat the same, only lucy is allowed any treats (like bits of our dinner) and we make sure she only gets them when neeps isn't around to see.
> 
> ...


Owieprone its far from expensive. I get my RC dry and applaws from there and its at least £2 cheaper than [email protected] and Jolleys. Also, the herbal stuff i bought for Audrey was £2.50

Have you had a look on Zooplus for wet food? They stock good quality and high in meat wet food from allover! Animonda, Almo Nature, Cosma and Porta are all very good meats:

Canned Cat Food: Bargain Prices by zooplus


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Sorry i'm probably thick/ignorant on this matter but isn't camomile tea a herbal tea and is it safe for cats? I only drink tetleys for the ooh factor and have never thought of using Camomile tea,if it is safe etc how would you use it and how often?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

But you only get an Ooooooo with Typhoo! lol  I always thought cold tea was best used for cleaning gunky eyes :yikes:


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> But you only get an Ooooooo with Typhoo! lol  I always thought cold tea was best used for cleaning gunky eyes :yikes:


Not the way i make it love:laugh:ya not only get an ooh but thats followed by a deep n satisfying aaaaah,nearly as good as a chocolate hit


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> But you only get an Ooooooo with Typhoo! lol  I always thought cold tea was best used for cleaning gunky eyes :yikes:


Oooh Typhoo!! love it! 

I heard rubbing cold tea on your paps made them bigger too!!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I think i'll give that one a miss Rach! pmsl, got quite sufficient thank you :lol:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Foods You Should Not Feed Your Cat

^ what you shouldn't feed your cat.

we have tried whiskas cat food with neeps, got some free during a promotion or something, and it made her smell so wet food is off the diet for her as she's unable to process it properly. we reckon she has a bowel imbalance, so will be trying kitty probiotcs once a week and a kitty multivitamin once a week.

camomile tea doesn't contain caffine which is bad for animals, the lethal dose is 150 mg/kg for cats. it causes the same symptoms in cats as too much caffine does in us, so is bad for them. 
so shouldn't cause any problems with them both drinking it. I make them a bowl of tea (no milk) with warm water, and a bowl of normal water should they want that. both cats drink the tea first.

we currently buy tesco premium dry cat food, which is just under £5 for 10kg, lasts for ages, satisfies them (unlike the senstive foods that we have tried with them both, which is either faaar to tasty or is nutritionally not enough for them as they ALWAYS want more), they both like it.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Anatomy, Function, and Diseases of the Digestive System in Cats

^ is also quite a good site for animal info on all sorts of stuff.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Cheers for that Op,may be useful for us in the future


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Oooh Typhoo!! love it!
> 
> I heard rubbing cold tea on your paps made them bigger too!!


Is Paps like Baps,with the amount of t-bags you'd need ya may as well save the money and get a proper papjob Auds


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i'll not be trying that tea/paps tip in the near future lol

is there a similar reversal tip? god saw fit to give me too much  that's the problem with deity's, they might live in heaven, we unfortunately have to deal with gravity


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## vikkizz (Oct 28, 2008)

look i was in the same position as u about 4 weeks ago! i took in a tom and he was a bloody nightmare up 2 the point where i was thinking about returning him to the shelter BUT after some help and advice on here he is the perfect companion now (well apart from one incident with my wallpaper lol) basically she needs loads and loads of toys especially 1s that she can play with on her own. i went to my local pet store and they really really helped me out i bought him a great toy it has a ball in side like a snake shape and it rolls around all the time but the cat cant get it out! its great he plays with it for hours also you can buy a remote control mouse and they go mental trying to attack it lol Also i think persisents works like i said before i was at my wits end with my cat but now if i tell him NO! it works instantly in fact i say he was one of the most well behaved cats i know lol.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Is Paps like Baps,with the amount of t-bags you'd need ya may as well save the money and get a proper papjob Auds


lol SK! Yep....paps = baps=roobies etc!!!

One tea bag does the trick....apparantly anyway......hubby would freak if he came home and i was sat in the lounge rubbing t-bags on my paps!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

cheers vik, as it's coming up to crimbo, i'm sure we can fork out for a few more toys. we have a remote control mouse that she likes, but the carpet we have means it doesn't have enough traction/power, so will need to get a mini car or something.. I'll try the puzzle cat toy you were on about, i'm sure our rats will like it if she doesn't.

she attacked my leg yesterday, she found it most amusing, hide under the table, attack as i walk past, scarper back under the table when i yelp, do it again when i walk back. evil wee sod, luckily for her it didn't hurt and i kept walking back and forth at irregular intervals and different speeds.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

> she attacked my leg yesterday, she found it most amusing, hide under the table, attack as i walk past, scarper back under the table when i yelp, do it again when i walk back. evil wee sod, luckily for her it didn't hurt and i kept walking back and forth at irregular intervals and different speeds.


This is what cats are about. You have to accept it. It's hunting mode. She did not find it amusing or non-amusing. She was practicing hunting. You were participating in the game by 'walking back and forth at different speeds'.

She is not an 'evil wee sod' she is being a cat, and acting out natural cat instincts.

I was for you initially but now I am wondering if I made a mistake.....


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

janee i don't think you've quite got the gist of my post there.

i'm assuming it's my lack of smilies, i'll redo it with smilies this time and some adendums:

she attacked my leg yesterday, she found it most amusing , blah blah blah evil wee sod , luckily for her it didnt hurt (usually does as she's not quite got the gist of keeping her claws in or not actually biting hard when playing) and kept walking back and forth etc etc  (to keep her amused, i had actually finished doing what i was doing and was playing with her).

I dunno about your cats mate but mine have definate 'grins' and 'scowls' she was definately amused by attacking my legs and feet. neeps also has the abitilty to look surprised and confused. if she didn't find it amusing she wouldn't have kept doing it as it would be 'boring' surely and therefore not worth continuing.

bubs does something similar 'stair wars', we have our stairs in the living room with an open bannister, bubs sits on the stairs and we stand on the opposite side in the livingroom, then knock the bannisters or side of the stairs so she gets excited and attacks our hands either with a closed paw (no claws) or bites us (gently) it's her fave game.

Under the table is neeps version of stair wars.


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