# Sticky  Could you spot a puppy farm?



## simplysardonic

I know most of the regulars on here most likely can, but this might be useful for newbies 

https://www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care...cPvirfZyvqr8nl0L33UsGCORg1_wFYyYlnxheIWBzW2mQ

Edited 10/3/21 to collate relevant links in one place:

https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/pets/a35136534/puppy-farms/

https://www.buyapuppysafely.org/

https://naturewatch.org/campaigns/article/hotline4puppies-launched

https://www.cariadcampaign.co.uk/report/


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## Darkangelwitch

Excellent article


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## SusieRainbow

Excellent ! Needs to be a sticky.


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## simplysardonic

SusieRainbow said:


> Excellent ! Needs to be a sticky.


Done


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## tabelmabel

https://www.buyapuppysafely.org/

Hope ok to add this link to this thread - another excellent resource for anyone buying a puppy


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## simplysardonic

tabelmabel said:


> https://www.buyapuppysafely.org/
> 
> Hope ok to add this link to this thread - another excellent resource for anyone buying a puppy


Yep, any useful websites can be added as then people can find it all on one thread


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## Rebecca Harding

I got caught out by Cotontastic in Doncaster. Seemed above board. I paid full namount For a pedigree coton. Then it developed cherry eye and a deformed jaw. I had its DNA tested and it was a Westie Maltese cross. I will be going to court and reporting them for fraud. I consult to law firms which helps.


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## Rebecca Harding

Rebecca Harding said:


> I got caught out by Cotontastic in Doncaster. Seemed above board. I paid full namount For a pedigree coton. Then it developed cherry eye and a deformed jaw. I had its DNA tested and it was a Westie Maltese cross. I will be going to court and reporting them for fraud. I consult to law firms which helps.


Oh and he's adorable and pastry if our family now. We have got his eye fixed.


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## lullabydream

Rebecca Harding said:


> I got caught out by Cotontastic in Doncaster. Seemed above board. I paid full namount For a pedigree coton. Then it developed cherry eye and a deformed jaw. I had its DNA tested and it was a Westie Maltese cross. I will be going to court and reporting them for fraud. I consult to law firms which helps.


You do know DNA tests aren't always accurate?


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## Rebecca Harding

lullabydream said:


> You do know DNA tests aren't always accurate?


AHH thanks for responding. The vet said she thought it was a Westie too before the test and apparently it's happened to lots of people who have bought dogs there as I have now found out from investigating with the trade. Funnily enough the breeder is now running away. ...


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## O2.0

I think it's important to remember, it won't just be puppies sold as breeds their not with congenital defects. 
There are bitches in these puppy farms who are being bred to death, kept in deplorable conditions, they need our help as much if not more than the puppies who end up in caring homes. 
I hope a thought is spared to these poor girls too, not just the new puppy owners who have been duped.


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## tabelmabel

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...re-wouldnt-put-my-dog-in-puppy-mill-would-you

This is quite an interesting piece, i thought


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## Rafa

Rebecca Harding said:


> I got caught out by Cotontastic in Doncaster. Seemed above board. I paid full namount For a pedigree coton. Then it developed cherry eye and a deformed jaw. I had its DNA tested and it was a Westie Maltese cross. I will be going to court and reporting them for fraud. I consult to law firms which helps.


Did you see your pup with it's Mother? Was she a Westie or Maltese Terrier?

I deplore what goes on in puppy farms, but surely, potential buyers of these pups have to be responsible to a point?


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## Rebbeca.win

This is a really great article! A of people have an image of puppy farms in their head that include stone walls and small kennels with no sunlight. A lot of times they see a family house with happy dogs and assume everything is okay.


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## Smianhead

simplysardonic said:


> I know most of the regulars on here most likely can, but this might be useful for newbies
> 
> https://www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care...cPvirfZyvqr8nl0L33UsGCORg1_wFYyYlnxheIWBzW2mQ


we didnt have a clue and then unfortunately it turns out that Rupert, our 6 month old dachshund, has been born in an illegal puppy farm. e had no idea other than he was so cheap. WE asked for documents which we were shown - again illegal / copies - and apparently over 100 Dachshund were seized in the same operation.

Luckily we get to keep him as he was in a terrible state when he got him at 9 weeks old. now hes a super healthy 6 month old terrorising his mate Ralph! who is 4 and a half! PIC INCLUDED (rupert at the back, ralph at the front)


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## SusieRainbow

Smianhead said:


> we didnt have a clue and then unfortunately it turns out that Rupert, our 6 month old dachshund, has been born in an illegal puppy farm. e had no idea other than he was so cheap. WE asked for documents which we were shown - again illegal / copies - and apparently over 100 Dachshund were seized in the same operation.
> 
> Luckily we get to keep him as he was in a terrible state when he got him at 9 weeks old. now hes a super healthy 6 month old terrorising his mate Ralph! who is 4 and a half! PIC INCLUDED (rupert at the back, ralph at the front)


Unfortunately dachshunds are popular with puppy farmers as they are very 'now' due to the media.
Lovely picture of your 2 boys !


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## Mitchell Perry

I never even knew that puppy farms were a thing. Ive always known that people would breed dogs for money with little care for the dog, but didn't realise it got to those kind of levels.


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## Dogluver57

simplysardonic said:


> I know most of the regulars on here most likely can, but this might be useful for newbies
> 
> https://www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care...cPvirfZyvqr8nl0L33UsGCORg1_wFYyYlnxheIWBzW2mQ


Great article
In Pennsylvania, Lancaster is loaded with backyard breeding. They are always getting shut down.


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## tabelmabel

Daily Mail: Government release a '12 Days of Petfish' video to warn pet-lovers about deceitful sellers.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-video-warn-pet-lovers-deceitful-sellers.html


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## simplysardonic

tabelmabel said:


> Daily Mail: Government release a '12 Days of Petfish' video to warn pet-lovers about deceitful sellers.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-video-warn-pet-lovers-deceitful-sellers.html


I saw this, sadly I think until we change the mindset of the buyers nothing will change, the backyard breeders & puppy farms seem to always be one step ahead when new laws come out, it's simple supply & demand & they are currently thriving


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## Rafa

simplysardonic said:


> I saw this, sadly I think until we change the mindset of the buyers nothing will change, the backyard breeders & puppy farms seem to always be one step ahead when new laws come out, it's simple supply & demand & they are currently thriving


Oh, indeed.

Unfortunately, many who buy from these places see themselves as gallantly rescuing a puppy. They, in fact, are lining the pockets of those responsible and freeing up space for yet another puppy.

No demand, the supply will stop. Puppy Farms would not exist were they not profitable. Simple as that.


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## tabelmabel

I know you're right @simplysardonic. I cant help thinking at least some of these puppy farm customers are just very naieve and, if only they knew what they might be buying into, they would never go near a puppy farm in the first place.

Life was so much easier years ago when you could pop down your local pet store and pick up a decent mongrel dog; the whole business of how to buy a dog is an absolute minefield these days.

As well as education on what to avoid when puppy searching, more needs done on educating the public on where to find well bred pups, how and when to approach breeders, typical prices, what to expect as regards how a good breeder deals with a potential purchaser.

As well as what to expect from rescue centres too (though there has been more in the way of tv programmes showing rescues)

People just dont seem to understand the massive cost implications of a puppy farmed pup. If it survives. And neither do many understand how critical good breeding and good socialisation in those crucial early weeks are to a sound temperament. Do they really realise how difficult it is to remediate the damage caused by poor care in these early weeks and poor breeding. I dont think they do


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## tabelmabel

https://wpcluster.dctdigital.com/th...perthshire-animal-raid-glenalmond-conditions/

I am adding this shocking article here. It is from my local press, right on my doorstep.

A horrific insight (with photos) of inside a puppy farm.


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## simplysardonic

tabelmabel said:


> https://wpcluster.dctdigital.com/th...perthshire-animal-raid-glenalmond-conditions/
> 
> I am adding this shocking article here. It is from my local press, right on my doorstep.
> 
> A horrific insight (with photos) of inside a puppy farm.


I can't bring myself to like your post, that article is just too awful.

I would imagine there are middlemen now for most of the big operations, so puppy buyers will continue to be duped as they don't have to drive out to these ramshackle dumps.


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## JoanneF

This is one of the dogs that escaped from a farm and was found in the Scottish Borders earlier this year. I'm putting the image in as a thumbnail as the coat is so badly matted you might not want to look closely, but anybody who is thinking of getting a designer doodle should see this.


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## simplysardonic

JoanneF said:


> This is one of the dogs that escaped from a farm and was found in the Scottish Borders earlier this year. I'm putting the image in as a thumbnail as the coat is so badly matted you might not want to look closely, but anybody who is thinking of getting a designer doodle should see this.
> 
> View attachment 456471


I remember these dogs, I think some or all of them turned out to be purebred poodles (could be wrong though) under that matted mess, but it's pretty much a dead cert they'd have been used to produce doodles.


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## Siskin

Thought I would put this on here. I know it's the Mail, but it's a good article on what is going on with smuggling underage and sick puppies from other countries.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ed-puppies-come-siege-European-gangsters.html


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## Blitz

I got kind of caught about 25 years ago when I got my first standard poodle. I know this goes against all the rules but it is not an uncommon thing to do when you live in a very remote area like I do though travelling is more common now. At the time it was just not on our radar to travel to get a puppy. Anyway I contacted a breeder. Had lots of phone chats with him and photos of the puppies. He was in Aberdeenshire so he offered to take a puppy to the boat for me. He sent me a book on clipping. The breeding was good. He showed his dogs and qualified for Crufts. All this was true, no lies here. Anyway puppy arrived, spotlessly clean, clipped face and paws. Then it turned out she was full of worms and had a skin infection and sore joints which she recovered from after a month on antibiotics. I was not happy but she was a lovely , well shaped dog with excellent conformation and movement so I thought it was just one of those things. Then a couple of years later I saw him advertising unregistered pups very cheaply. Something clicked and I phoned him and made out I was interested. Nothing seemed right this time so I reported him to the SSPCA who said that they did not cover that area and gave me the local number. They said he was on their radar but there was nothing actually wrong. I was quite worried about it and to cut a long story short I discovered he had two breeding centres, one further down Scotland where he bred miniature poodles and the place Lolly had come from in Aberdeenshire. Apparently he shared his time between the two. The dogs were all in a house with a different room for different size pups and they were given enough food for a few days while he went to the other place. The SSPCA investigated the miniature poodle place and removed all the dogs but still could not touch the other one. Then they took over the area and that day removed the standard poodles. Apparently they were in dreadful condition, a lot needed eye and ear surgery. I contacted the rescue that had them and would have taken one but they were all spoken for when they recovered. I found out he was well known in the show world though no one had suspected what was going on. He was banned from keeping dogs but his wife was not so as far as I know they carried on on the show circuit. 

So it is not as easy as it seems. Someone who had a pup from me had got one from him at the same time as I got Lolly and as far as I know they have visited and not realised what was going on. At least all the dogs were sound, well bred and had fantastic temperaments so anyone that got a pup from him did end up with a good dog. He must have really lapsed in his care over a couple of years but there is no excuse. 

Luckily travelling is easier now so I would not go about it that way again but still would have been very easy to be conned by him. I even wonder if he knew what he was doing and it was pure stupidity because he was not overcharging and he spent so much time with me on the phone and seemed great first time round.


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## tabelmabel

simplysardonic said:


> I can't bring myself to like your post, that article is just too awful.


I did swither about posting it at all but then i thought it does belong on this thread after all - there is no point trying to warn folk off buying pups from disreputable sources if we can't bring ourselves to look at what we are warning against.

And, if someone currently seeking a pup via a small ad or internet listing stumbles upon these pics, it could at least cause them to stop and think.


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## tabelmabel

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/stark-warning-after-death-of-puppy-bought-on-gumtree

Another cautionary tale which belongs on this thread.

Anyone looking to buy a pup at the moment - please read this.


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## simplysardonic

tabelmabel said:


> https://news.stv.tv/scotland/stark-warning-after-death-of-puppy-bought-on-gumtree
> 
> Another cautionary tale which belongs on this thread.
> 
> Anyone looking to buy a pup at the moment - please read this.


Poor pup 

I'm going to add the link to the pandemic thread as well


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## simplysardonic

I'm adding this link as it has useful checklists not just for spotting a puppy farm but for spotting them in online adverts & questions puppy buyers should be asking themselves:

https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/pets/a35136534/puppy-farms/

It does say 'unlicensed' but I urge people to proceed with equal caution with licensed establishments as this is currently a very grey area- having a council licence means they breed more than 3 litters a year to sell, which could indicate a small scale breeder with a few dogs in the home, or a factory style setup with tens or hundreds of breeding dogs.

It's up to the puppy buyer to do their own research & decide for themselves which type of breeder they wish to support.


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## simplysardonic

Following on from another post, some more links:

https://www.cariadcampaign.co.uk/report/

https://naturewatch.org/campaigns/article/hotline4puppies-launched


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## hamsterlover123

I think you mean puppy mill but maybe it is different in the UK. Here is how to spot one
-they don’t let you see the parents.
-they don’t let you FaceTime
-they are selling them for ridiculous prices
-they always have puppies.
- there website has no typos/mistakes
-they don’t take a background check on you
-the pups have scars, scratches, non clear eyes, ect.
-the pups are afraid of people


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## common sense

We were caught in 2013 when we got our Beagle Evie. She's 9 shortly and has mild epilepsy. Our late daughter saw an ad on Gumtree for puppies so we went. Three lovely pocket Beagle pups so we got one. No Beagle mother, was at his wife's house he said. No pedigree papers but said he'd post them. Never came. Vet says he thinks she is a full pedigree though. Was only a few days after that a guy on our street said "was he Eastern European" and I said "No, Irish" and he said we'd been to an Irish puppy farm!


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## SusieRainbow

common sense said:


> We were caught in 2013 when we got our Beagle Evie. She's 9 shortly and has mild epilepsy. Our late daughter saw an ad on Gumtree for puppies so we went. Three lovely pocket Beagle pups so we got one. No Beagle mother, was at his wife's house he said. No pedigree papers but said he'd post them. Never came. Vet says he thinks she is a full pedigree though. Was only a few days after that a guy on our street said "was he Eastern European" and I said "No, Irish" and he said we'd been to an Irish puppy farm!


 Has she been tested for Lafora?


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