# Blood testing kits for testing at birth.



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Is there such a kit a breeder can buy to determind blood groups at birth,following dr addies site I noticed something about them but not sure you can buy them.

I understand it cant tell the difference between A or Ab kits but could tell me If I had and b kits which could be left with mum,just need to keep as many options open as poss really.

Any info greatly received. 
Eta I mean in home kits.
I believe they are called blood typing cards.And can be tested minutes after birth.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

There is, or at least there used to be. I think they're still available. Never used them myself for a few reasons - several breeder/friends had tried them, said the kit was expensive (think it might contain sufficient for 6 kittens, not sure) at around £100 and very fiddly to use. Recall them saying something about problems in needing to ensure you can actually get enough blood from the cord to do each test properly and also ensuring that it was contaminated with blood/birthing fluids from the mother. 

The kits never really did seem to catch on; I certainly don't know anyone who uses them. Unless someone knows differently.... ? If there's something better available nowadays I'd definitely consider giving it a try.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> There is, or at least there used to be. I think they're still available. Never used them myself for a few reasons - several breeder/friends had tried them, said the kit was expensive (think it might contain sufficient for 6 kittens, not sure) at around £100 and very fiddly to use. Recall them saying something about problems in needing to ensure you can actually get enough blood from the cord to do each test properly and also ensuring that it was contaminated with blood/birthing fluids from the mother.
> 
> The kits never really did seem to catch on; I certainly don't know anyone who uses them. Unless someone knows differently.... ? If there's something better available nowadays I'd definitely consider giving it a try.


Oh right thanx can you find any links to buy them?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I've just been having a look funnily enough... I've not dug too much yet but the only one I've found so far is RapidVet - Feline testing

Never having used anything like this before I don't know if this is the one a few friends have used in the past or if there's something else, specifically designed for blood typing at birth. With these RapidVet tests you'd need a pipette to drop blood into the 'well' on the cards for testing and it doesn't say anywhere (that I can see on their web site) that blood from the umbilical cord is okay to use. Either way, I don't think I'd fancy my chances with trying to get drips of blood into a small 'well'.. with or without the use of a pipette!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i have been trying to search to but only found this info.

Dr. Addie - Feline Blood Groups group testing the kittens at birth_


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I've just been having a look funnily enough... I've not dug too much yet but the only one I've found so far is RapidVet - Feline testing
> 
> Never having used anything like this before I don't know if this is the one a few friends have used in the past or if there's something else, specifically designed for blood typing at birth. With these RapidVet tests you'd need a pipette to drop blood into the 'well' on the cards for testing and it doesn't say anywhere (that I can see on their web site) that blood from the umbilical cord is okay to use. Either way, I don't think I'd fancy my chances with trying to get drips of blood into a small 'well'.. with or without the use of a pipette!


Yes iv seen these ones thanx for looking maybe someone else knows of others


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _i have been trying to search to but only found this info.
> 
> Dr. Addie - Feline Blood Groups group testing the kittens at birth_


Thankyou cm that's where I was looking


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You may be able to get testing kits from the vet, but the breeders I know just remove all the kittens for the first day and don't bother testing the kittens unless it's one they're keeping/sending as a breeding cat - which of course they do later on, not at birth.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

I got the kits through my vet, they were very expensive and didn't help at all. I found it very hard to get enough blood to work the kit then it was really difficult to work out what the result was against the chart in the pack. In the end I just handfeed for 24 hours if I know there may be a problem with incompatability.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> I got the kits through my vet, they were very expensive and didn't help at all. I found it very hard to get enough blood to work the kit then it was really difficult to work out what the result was against the chart in the pack. In the end I just handfeed for 24 hours if I know there may be a problem with incompatability.


Thanks for that was really helpful and its made my mind up.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Just incase you change your mind and are still looking I found this today and thought of you.

Alvedia Blood Typing Kits

Not sure if you can purchase them from her in small quantities?!

Edit: on second looks I think this might just be information about them, not sure if you can actually buy them.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

wow thankyou they look good don't they is this a up to date websote and is in in England?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Just incase you change your mind and are still looking I found this today and thought of you.
> 
> Alvedia Blood Typing Kits
> 
> ...


Yes he sells them. Hes in yarmath (sp) he buys them from abroad.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Yes he sells them. Hes in yarmath (sp) he buys them from abroad.


Glad I could help  I only stumbled across it as I have been spending the evening looking at other breeders websites trying to get some ideas for my own one when I eventually get my bum into gear and set it up lol.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I was thinking doing a heal prick on the kittens but on the pads you know like babies have done,better than getting infection into the cord.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Glad I could help  I only stumbled across it as I have been spending the evening looking at other breeders websites trying to get some ideas for my own one when I eventually get my bum into gear and set it up lol.


How weird is that


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> ,i cant believe thses test can tell difference between A and Ab even langfords cant do this.


I wouldn't believe that when the worlds leading labs can't even tell the difference, this test must know something the scientists don't


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Langford's can tell you the difference. The result is either reported (I won't type their confusing way of reporting results!) as homozygous A blood group, i.e. an A not carrying b; or A carrying b; or b group. What their test cannot distinguish is the very rare AB blood group.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Langford's can tell you the difference. The result is either reported (I won't type their confusing way of reporting results!) as homozygous A blood group, i.e. an A not carrying b; or A carrying b; or b group. What their test cannot distinguish is the very rare AB blood group.


Ah right any chance I can email you the results see what you think its saying?

My OH doesn't think its worth doing the test as its not a great deal of time the kitten need to be away from mum for.And for the price of the tests hmm I don't know.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I have just been looking at langfords site and just noticed that you can get 

A or AB (not carrying b)
A or Ab (carrying b)

But cannot tell you that the cats solely AB 

so if you mated two cats that were (A or AB carrying b) would some of the kits from that litter be B blood as both parents are carriers of b ??

If this was the case that's when these test kits would be handy, could be barking up the wrong tree , just wondered


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

For the purpose of thinking/worrying about blood group incompatibility, try to forget blood type AB. It's a separate and very rare blood group and different from Ab, which is type A carrying b.

Mating together two cats, both of which are Ab (so A group, carrying b) is never going to be an issue because the mother is type A and type A rarely, rarely has sufficient anti-b antibodies to cause a problem. I would ignore what it says on Diane Addie's web site about the possible 'danger' of blood type A queens feeding blood type b kittens - no one, to my knowledge, has ever experienced a problem with this. Need to remember though the importance of testing future generations if blood grouping is a concern for you. Both parents being blood type Ab means statistically speaking 25% of the kittens will be homozygous group A (i.e. not carrying b), 50% will be Ab and 25% will be b. But of course they could ALL be 'b' group for all you know... 

The test kits would come in handy (and I have my doubts on them) where the queen is type b, the stud type A and hence the strong possibility of A group kittens - it is the b blood type that *may* have strong anti-A antibodies. So in that scenario you would remove any A group kittens for hand feeding for 'x' number of hours, whilst 'b' type kittens aren't at risk and can stay with their mother.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Yay I understood all that D 

Am I right in thinking that a b queen x A carring b stud will be 50% chance of A carrying b kitten and 50% b kittens?

Also I heard a while back that dr addie had possibly the bit you have just mentioned wrong and a few breeders also said they had never experienced problem either.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

And as I did just have a litter which both parents were A carrying b I didn't loose and kittens either,although without testing I wont know if there are any b's there,however 3 of the kittens are being blood grouped so will have a little idea soon.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Personally I wouldn't bother with the tests, having tried them for myself. Not only do you somehow have to get enough blood for the test to work (it says a drop, but what it fails to tell you is that drop must be a certain amount!  ) so you either have to hassle a newborn kitten and make it bleed or you have to wrestle the cord and placenta and believe you me it just isn't worth it  

As you may end up having to feed for a short time anyway you might as well save yourself the hassle and expense and just handfeed automatically any litter that there could be a problem with. Its easy, less stressful for all concerned and is over and done with before you know it


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> Personally I wouldn't bother with the tests, having tried them for myself. Not only do you somehow have to get enough blood for the test to work (it says a drop, but what it fails to tell you is that drop must be a certain amount!  ) so you either have to hassle a newborn kitten and make it bleed or you have to wrestle the cord and placenta and believe you me it just isn't worth it
> 
> As you may end up having to feed for a short time anyway you might as well save yourself the hassle and expense and just handfeed automatically any litter that there could be a problem with. Its easy, less stressful for all concerned and is over and done with before you know it


Yes you are right one breeder says she leaves her kits away from mum for 18 hour and shes never lost none and dr addie says 16 hour so if I go for 18 hour that's not that bad.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Am I right in thinking that a b queen x A carring b stud will be 50% chance of A carrying b kitten and 50% b kittens?


Yes that is correct.



we love bsh's said:


> Also I heard a while back that dr addie had possibly the bit you have just mentioned wrong and a few breeders also said they had never experienced problem either.


No she isn't wrong, however some A group queens have very little antibody for B so you could breed over and over again and never have a problem. Of course how many of those breeders who claim never to have suffered NI kittens just assumed that the kittens died for other reasons  I bred one girl (Ab) 5 times to my stud (also Ab) it was only in the last litter that I lost any kittens. A breeder friend of mine bred her Ab girl 6 times to her Ab stud and never lost any kittens. Its just how nature rolls I guess 

Also B group blood type is on the increase now so I think people are seeing more and more incompatability issues than they used to in the 'olden days'


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> Yes that is correct.
> 
> No she isn't wrong, however some A group queens have very little antibody for B so you could breed over and over again and never have a problem. Of course how many of those breeders who claim never to have suffered NI kittens just assumed that the kittens died for other reasons  I bred one girl (Ab) 5 times to my stud (also Ab) it was only in the last litter that I lost any kittens. A breeder friend of mine bred her Ab girl 6 times to her Ab stud and never lost any kittens. Its just how nature rolls I guess
> 
> Also B group blood type is on the increase now so I think people are seeing more and more incompatability issues than they used to in the 'olden days'


This is a great thread ,most interesting one on pf in a while


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Yes you are right one breeder says she leaves her kits away from mum for 18 hour and shes never lost none and dr addie says 16 hour so if I go for 18 hour that's not that bad.


I always go for 24 hours. 16 has been found to not be long enough. You need to get the kittens to a point where their gut no longer absorbs the antibodies. 18 hours is considered average I understand but 24 is safest. I have heard of someone feeding for 36 hours  They had some stamina!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Right going to chuck something else into the mix.... My girl Blood B is going out to stud, I was told by a long time breeder that I didn't have to stick with a blood B stud for her I could go with Blood A without any problems with the kits, the reason was, and I quote... That my girl was a first time mum so it didnt matter ... True or false ?....x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Right going to chuck something else into the mix.... My girl Blood B is going out to stud, I was told by a long time breeder that I didn't have to stick with a blood B stud for her I could go with Blood A without any problems with the kits, the reason was, and I quote... That my girl was a first time mum so it didnt matter ... True or false ?....x


All kittens would be at risk 1st pregnancy or not shes wrong,even if stud was A carrying b 50% of kits would be at risk.

I know this is the case with a b stud and Ab queen,its cause queens with blood group A have less anti-type B antibody than blood group B queens have anti-group A.so type B kittens of a first or second mating of this pair might survive.

print off Dr addies tables show her them!


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Right going to chuck something else into the mix.... My girl Blood B is going out to stud, I was told by a long time breeder that I didn't have to stick with a blood B stud for her I could go with Blood A without any problems with the kits, the reason was, and I quote... That my girl was a first time mum so it didnt matter ... True or false ?....x


FALSE!

Breeders always get this muddled up. B type queens are the most tricky to deal with. Either she needs to go to a B stud or if she goes to an A stud then you will need to handfeed.

It is A type queens who can go to B studs for the first litter without trouble (although having said that one of my friends lost all but 1 kitten when she did this to NI.) As I said before, nature loves to keep you on your toes


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> All kittens would be at risk 1st pregnancy or not shes wrong,even if stud was A carrying b 50% of kits would be at risk.
> 
> I know this is the case with a b stud and Ab queen,its cause queens with blood group A have less anti-type B antibody than blood group B queens have anti-group A.so type B kittens of a first or second mating of this pair might survive.
> 
> print off Dr addies tables show her them!


So wot about the 3rd 4th etc


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> So wot about the 3rd 4th etc


There is more risk.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> FALSE!
> 
> Breeders always get this muddled up. B type queens are the most tricky to deal with. Either she needs to go to a B stud or if she goes to an A stud then you will need to handfeed.
> *
> It is A type queens who can go to B studs for the first litter without trouble (although having said that one of my friends lost all but 1 kitten when she did this to NI.) As I said before, nature loves to keep you on your toes *




Really? Dr addies research says all kittens would be blood group Ab therefor same blood 'type' as mum so no risk.

Do you mean an A carrying b queen to a b stud if so then what you said is true.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> 
> Really? Dr addies research says all kittens would be blood group Ab therefor same blood 'type' as mum so no risk.


Yes the queen was Ab. The A group kittens were fine (just that 1 surviving soul) but the other three where group B and therefore not the same type as the mother and it is these that died, even though it was the queens first litter. She must have had a higher than average antibody level. All of her litters have been handfed since and all have survived.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> Yes the queen was Ab. The A group kittens were fine (just that 1 surviving soul) but the other three where group B and therefore not the same type as the mother and it is these that died, even though it was the queens first litter. She must have had a higher than average antibody level. All of her litters have been handfed since and all have survived.


Nature doesn't always go by the books eh.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

No, it lulls you into a false sense of security then lobs a curve ball at you 

Mind you, wouldn't it be boring if we didn't all have to be topnotch geneticists in order to breed this amazing species of animal.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> All kittens would be at risk 1st pregnancy or not shes wrong,even if stud was A carrying b 50% of kits would be at risk.
> 
> I know this is the case with a b stud and Ab queen,its cause queens with blood group A have less anti-type B antibody than blood group B queens have anti-group A.so type B kittens of a first or second mating of this pair might survive.
> 
> print off Dr addies tables show her them!


Knew it was totally tosh ... I woundnt have put her out to a tested A stud anyway am not that stupid .. It make me so mad that breeders are giving out information like that ... Can you imagine how a new breeder would feel if they lost there first litter too miss given information ... Shocking


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Nature doesn't always go by the books eh.


There is a lot to be said about (carrying b). Nothing is ever simple lol


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> It make me so mad that breeders are giving out information like that ... Can you imagine how a new breeder would feel if they lost there first litter too miss given information ... Shocking


Indeed Cosmills, there is a lot of misinformation bandied about regarding blood grouping. I've tried telling one chap that just because he breeds A to A he cannot guarantee that he won't get B kittens because the parents could be carrying b ... I just can't get through to him that he must test his cats to find out if they carry b. He only tested his first queen and none since, he is convinced that he will not come a cropper


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> Indeed Cosmills, there is a lot of misinformation bandied about regarding blood grouping. I've tried telling one chap that just because he breeds A to A he cannot guarantee that he won't get B kittens because the parents could be carrying b ... I just can't get through to him that he must test his cats to find out if they carry b. He only tested his first queen and none since, he is convinced that he will not come a cropper


Well am pleased I test ... I don't want to come a cropper.. I really do not see a point in breeding if you cut corners... It's little lives we are dealing with ... I sometimes wish Gccf and other organisation would check all registered breeders to make sure they are doing it right... Maybe abit OTT but cannot see any other way sometimes ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Well am pleased I test ... I don't want to come a cropper.. I really do not see a point in breeding if you cut corners... It's little lives we are dealing with ... I sometimes wish Gccf and other organisation would check all registered breeders to make sure they are doing it right... Maybe abit OTT but cannot see any other way sometimes ...


cosmill if you want your kitten blood grouped,pkd,and tested for LH or even choc,let me know ill get it done for you at your cost,save you having to do it.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

You never know cosmills, I understand that soon certain tests must be done before active registrations will be accepted in one breed. I suppose the GCCF could impose a similar ruling for blood typing prior to accepting active registrations, although I'm not sure if it is an issue in all breeds?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> cosmill if you want your kitten blood grouped,pkd,and tested for LH or even choc,let me know ill get it done for you at your cost,save you having to do it.


Please ..... Can you blood, PKD Lh and dilute ... For me , let me know the cost and I will bring it Friday ... Cheers Mrs


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> You never know cosmills, I understand that soon certain tests must be done before active registrations will be accepted in one breed. I suppose the GCCF could impose a similar ruling for blood typing prior to accepting active registrations, although I'm not sure if it is an issue in all breeds?


I hope in the future they do ... Sorry I have a bee in my bonnet at the min.. Am so please i join the forum , without it I would have probably gone down the wrong route.... So thanks peeps your all on the Xmas card list lol x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Please ..... Can you blood, PKD Lh and dilute ... For me , let me know the cost and I will bring it Friday ... Cheers Mrs


I think its £45 for 3 tests,i ordered more swabs earlier so will do it as soon as they arrive.

not cheap are they now their prices have gone up.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh I see you want 4 tests see if you can find their price list for 4 test with breeder club code.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I think its £45 for 3 tests,i ordered more swabs earlier so will do it as soon as they arrive.
> 
> not cheap are they now their prices have gone up.


No not cheap.. But worth there weight in gold ... As I want 4 a worked it out at £55 ... Least I know before she comes home, x your a star


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> No not cheap.. But worth there weight in gold ... As I want 4 a worked it out at £55 ... Least I know before she comes home, x your a star


Its no problem cm.


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