# HELP ME !!?!?! bad breeder??



## neko (May 8, 2011)

I have removed this post. I asked a question that was not answered. instead i was needlessly patronised by assumptious uncomprehending people. and then called a troll? by someone who comments my post with just; 'it's a troll' and nothing in relation to my post what so ever?
how dare you:/
and i also think it's really immature!
i have better things to do with my time than defend myself to people online.
how am i a troll?
why would i bother to make a fake post? about a fake problem? that's so stupid!
it's not like i'm leaving a link to a dodgy site or anything:/


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I wouldn't give her my money but I also wouldn't expect to view a 3 week old kitten. I think that's a little risky for the kitten.

Most breeders I have interacted with don't push for early deposits as they are not desperate to sell kittens. I would find someone else.


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## stevenco (Jan 7, 2011)

If you don't think its right don't do it. i'm sure there will be some more kittens out there somewhere. what breed was you getting.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

As dissapointed as you are, as you were loooking forward to getting your kitten, honest answer I would give this woman the wide berth if it was me.
If shes being this evasive, and seems that un interested where her kittens end up, I cant see her being any better when she gets your money.

I take it its a pedigree you are were getting. There will be others. Just do your research and actually speak to a few more breeders, you sound knowledgeable so should be able to suss out out a good caring one, whos not going to give you all this hassle. This one sounds very iffy to me.


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## ajohnson (May 4, 2011)

Sounds a bit fishy to me if I'm honest.


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

I would leave her to it. if the kittens are still avaliable at 9 weeks then go along and see them but you obviously already have bad feelings towards her so y would u want to give her your money! what kind of kitten are you looking for?


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## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

if you are posting here you already know the answer to your question

ive just gone on two waiting lists this is the first time ive dealt with proper breeders so im a little unsure of myself as to what to look out for even after alot of research but i am more than happy with the two that have added me their emails are full of advice questions reasurence and general chat i feel relaxed and exited after speaking with them not anxious or worried if you are feeling like this my sugestion would be 
walk away  sorry


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

theres quite afew very good and ethical breeders on this site. if you tell us what kind of cat your looking for im sure some1 can point you in the right direction!

first thing i would look for is both parents are health tested... tests usually depend on the breed.

another major thing is that they keep the kittens till bare minimum 12 weeks. ideally 13. most decent breeders wont allow outside contact until the kittens are 4/5 weeks plus... i defenatly wouldnt! due to infection


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

alot of breeders dont allow visits until 9weeks of age, but I dont know any of them that would take a deposit on a kitten at 3weeks then not let you visit for another 6, normally its handed over once the kitten has been pickwed & you have visited.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Do not put a deposit on a kitten without seeing it first :nono: I can understand a breeder no allowing visits before nine weeks but it is very unethical imo to ask for a deposit before viewing.
I think you already know that you shouldn't be going for this kitten  but there are plenty of good breeders around so it's worth waiting. Unfortunately having a breeding prefix and being registered is not all that goes into being a good breeder 
I have to say I often don't get the chance to ask many questions as people viewing my kittens are eager to tell me all about their pets and what sort of home they are going to provide for one of my babies 
I see from your post you already have a Ragdoll - are you looking for another?


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## MatildaG (Nov 8, 2010)

Can you give the breeder a call and speak to her on the phone? It may be she doesn't have a great email manner and you'll soon be able to tell if she's avoiding questions over the phone. 

That's if you want to give her the benefit of the doubt for the moment although it does sound like she's hiding something if she's not replying/ignoring questions. It may be best cuttings your losses and finding a breeder who operates in a way you feel more comfortable with as everyone does it differently (aslong as they are doing it safely e.g. I wouldn't recommend anyone that lets you view at 3 weeks).

MG x


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I wouldn't give her my money but I also wouldn't expect to view a 3 week old kitten. I think that's a little risky for the kitten.
> 
> Most breeders I have interacted with don't push for early deposits as they are not desperate to sell kittens. I would find someone else.


it's not a case of me expecting to view the kitten at that time, it's literally what she said! when i asked how old theyll be when i am able to view them.
it's not risky for the kitten at all though, i wouldn't be handling unvaccinated or dirty animals and then going to her house and handling them, viewing them as babies would be just that. viewing.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Shayden said:


> I would leave her to it. if the kittens are still avaliable at 9 weeks then go along and see them but you obviously already have bad feelings towards her so y would u want to give her your money! what kind of kitten are you looking for?


i actually don't have any 'bad feelings' toward her at all!
i've seen pictures of my kitten he looks big and healthy, pictures where he is being held.
i'm not going to not give someone money for something just because i don't like them.. it's not based on if i like her or not!
and if i'm honest i didn't have any bad judgements about her at all until she started getting worse and worse with me about this.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

neko said:


> it's not a case of me expecting to view the kitten at that time, it's literally what she said! when i asked how old theyll be when i am able to view them.
> it's not risky for the kitten at all though, i wouldn't be handling unvaccinated or dirty animals and then going to her house and handling them, viewing them as babies would be just that. viewing.


Doesnt matter, Kittens shouldnt be viewed until 4weeks minimum due to their immune systems, then it is a bit hard picking out a kitten that isnt doing much if you are going on personality!

dont visit any other cats/kittens for 24-48hours before, then shoes off at the door and anti bac used on your hands.

Ive never had people just come to 'view' my kittens standing there staring at them! They play with them and pick them up etc



neko said:


> i actually don't have any 'bad feelings' toward her at all!
> i've seen pictures of my kitten he looks big and healthy, pictures where he is being held.
> i'm not going to not give someone money for something just because i don't like them.. it's not based on if i like her or not!
> and if i'm honest i didn't have any bad judgements about her at all until she started getting worse and worse with me about this.


If your not worried or have any bad feelings about her, I dont get why you posted about her being a bad breeder if your happy and still going to buy the kitten...whats the point in the thread then? 

Anyone can send pictures, doesnt mean the kitten even exists!! Always visit before putting a deposit down!


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Shayden said:


> theres quite afew very good and ethical breeders on this site. if you tell us what kind of cat your looking for im sure some1 can point you in the right direction!
> 
> first thing i would look for is both parents are health tested... tests usually depend on the breed.
> 
> another major thing is that they keep the kittens till bare minimum 12 weeks. ideally 13. most decent breeders wont allow outside contact until the kittens are 4/5 weeks plus... i defenatly wouldnt! due to infection


I have a pedigree cat already, i know how to choose a cat. she is a registered breeder. the alarm bells started to go off from what she was saying to me, and what she _wasn't_ saying.
information about the parents being tested and such is on her website already. it's open knoelwdge.. i don't think breeders are allowed to be registered and i doubt any clubs would put them on their lists if their breeding cats hadn't had their tests
there wouldn't be any risk of infection from contact with me and my mother as all of my animals have had their vaccinations and miyu being pedigree i keep all her documents and reciepts. i think my mom keeps hers for her cat also. i wouldn't touch my animals before going to meet an unvaccinated kitten anyway, nor would i go near my animals after meeting an unvaccinated kitten, i'm sure it's common sense right?
if someone with pets that arent vaccinated is wanting to meet your kitten.. then no they can't. obviously. but if their animals are vaccinated indoor only animals there shouldnt be any problem with it.
it shouldnt be a case of not allowed people to meet your kittens until theyre vaccinated.. it should be a case of making sure that they have their animals vaccinated and are completely clean before meeting your kittens.. also i dont think its right to want a deposit at 3weeks met or not. i dont think deposits should be given or expected before any vaccinations because some kittens DO become ill from the vaccinations.
also it kind of bugs me if breeders keep their kittens for too long, as its upsetting for the cat, bonding with their breeder and siblings and then being taken away, sure this doesn't bother them in the long term but it can be rather distressing, also the cat will still bond with his or her owner.. but they couldve bonded a lot better! if they had met sooner! or even gone with them sooner
i think in the case of no experience and no proof of experience with young kittens or baby animals in general then it isn't ok.
but i am actually an experienced owner of animals and have been raising animals from babies ..well pretty much my whole life.
i had a rat from birth who was rejected by her mother (not because she was a runt.. the litter was just very large and she lived until she was 5 going 6 and if she hadnt gotten cancer that spread to her mouth she would have probably lived longer) as long as the kittens independant from his or her mother, onto it's own diet, and active it's ok for someone who is experienced with babycats to have them. i think in some cases.. keeping a kitten for so long can be detrimental.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

neko said:


> i don't think breeders are allowed to be registered and i doubt any clubs would put them on their lists if their breeding cats hadn't had their tests
> 
> Not ture you can breed dogs & cats without health testing at all! Just means those people dont raelly care about breeding a healthier animal, they are curtting vorners to make ££
> 
> ...


........................


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Doesnt matter, Kittens shouldnt be viewed until 4weeks minimum due to their immune systems, then it is a bit hard picking out a kitten that isnt doing much if you are going on personality!
> 
> dont visit any other cats/kittens for 24-48hours before, then shoes off at the door and anti bac used on your hands.
> 
> ...


the way im saying things and the way youre taking them is different.
i'm saying i don't have bad feelings toward her. i'm worried because of how she is acting now, things are _now_ adding up and seeming off.
"i didn't have any bad judgements about her at all *until she started getting worse and worse with me about this.*
i'm not sure whether im going to buy the kitten or not i was asking if it were normal for breeders to get like this once in a while, if it was normal/ok for them to want a deposit at 3 weeks.
also.. i wasnt saying she sent pictures meaning.. the kitten is definitely hers it exists it is there. i meant i've seen picture sof him; he looks healthy, and the right size for his age(1 month tomorrow). 
though id ont believe this person would make a whole website ..make a dozen other websites to pretend to be people she has supposedly bought from and sold to..
leave her self messages in her guestbook steal pictures of kittens
this was NOT just some email address and 'we have kittens for sale now email us' post on a listing websitel.
i went to her website from a list of breeders in my area.
i checked her out she has a guest book she has bought from breeders she has sold to breeders she has sold to general other people who arent breeders the ones who are breeders have their own sites and the links were in the guestbook on those sites they have their own guestbooks and so on..
though i wasnt seeing the picture as being evidence that she has kittens/is legit. i was just stating the kitten looks healthy and such as stated.
that said i don't believe that the picture isn't hers and she's a full time scammer.
i _do_ believe she mayb have seen an opportunity to rip me off and is trying to take it.

update: just saw this..
"dont visit any other cats/kittens for 24-48hours before, then shoes off at the door and anti bac used on your hands.

Ive never had people just come to 'view' my kittens standing there staring at them! They play with them and pick them up etc"
thats exactly what i would of done if i'm going to view a kitten that isn't vaccinated.
(which is what she said was the time i was to view them.. i didn't contact her saying something like.. oh can i view them at 3 weeks please? i asked when it's ok to view them and _ she_ said 3 weeks!)
if i viewed the kittens at 3 weeks ofcourse i wouldn't touch them! what i meant by viewing them(in the case of them being so young.. NOT all viewings.. obviously in normal circumstances viewing a kitten would ofcourse! mean handling them playing.. but in the case of such young kittens! i meant viewing as in assessing how they are playing, how they're walking.. what they're doing.. how they're interacting with other animals, people, and things around them. talking to the breeder about how they're growing and moving forward, how much they're feeding etc..
their development basically! i'm NOT going to pick up a kitten that isn't old enough to be handled by people it(and it's MOTHER) are not used to!
(THEN i would come to view again later on.. THAT time i would be handling them and seeing how they are with that.. and how they are with me, their personality etc..)
ofcourse it doesn't apply for EVERYTIME i'm to view a cat or kitten. i meant in this circumstance.

i cant comprehend how you would of thought in the first place:/


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

neko said:


> the way im saying things and the way youre taking them is different.
> i'm saying i don't have bad feelings toward her. i'm worried because of how she is acting now, things are _now_ adding up and seeming off.
> "i didn't have any bad judgements about her at all *until she started getting worse and worse with me about this.*
> i'm not sure whether im going to buy the kitten or not i was asking if it were normal for breeders to get like this once in a while, if it was normal/ok for them to want a deposit at 3 weeks.
> ...


lol well there are people out there fdoing just that! so never be fooled!

there is no reason why you cant visit now, and just say to her Ill leave a deposit when I visit at 9weeks old and know the kitten exists and are healthy. the only reason people would accept a deposit as if the person lives the other side of the country and cant get to you, but you have spoke at leangth on the phone


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

neko said:


> I have a pedigree cat already, i know how to choose a cat. she is a registered breeder. the alarm bells started to go off from what she was saying to me, and what she _wasn't_ saying.
> information about the parents being tested and such is on her website already. it's open knoelwdge.. i don't think breeders are allowed to be registered and i doubt any clubs would put them on their lists if their breeding cats hadn't had their tests
> there wouldn't be any risk of infection from contact with me and my mother as all of my animals have had their vaccinations and miyu being pedigree i keep all her documents and reciepts. i think my mom keeps hers for her cat also. i wouldn't touch my animals before going to meet an unvaccinated kitten anyway, nor would i go near my animals after meeting an unvaccinated kitten, i'm sure it's common sense right?
> if someone with pets that arent vaccinated is wanting to meet your kitten.. then no they can't. obviously. but if their animals are vaccinated indoor only animals there shouldnt be any problem with it.
> ...


In that case any good breeder would keep the kitten until it was well or refund your deposit 
My kittens do not leave until they are a minimum of 13 weeks old and will still feed from their mother up until that time. How is keeping a kitten to that age detrimental? A kitten learns from its mother and its litter mates and just because you may have hand raised other animals it does not make it right to take a kitten from its family until it has learned its behaviour from them.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Do not put a deposit on a kitten without seeing it first :nono: I can understand a breeder no allowing visits before nine weeks but it is very unethical imo to ask for a deposit before viewing.
> I think you already know that you shouldn't be going for this kitten  but there are plenty of good breeders around so it's worth waiting. Unfortunately having a breeding prefix and being registered is not all that goes into being a good breeder
> I have to say I often don't get the chance to ask many questions as people viewing my kittens are eager to tell me all about their pets and what sort of home they are going to provide for one of my babies
> I see from your post you already have a Ragdoll - are you looking for another?


no not another ragdoll. miyus my only raggie <3 but i might get a muffin at some point in the future.. when i have my own house.
i have contacted a few breeders, but been let down each time(poor communication.. being elusive.. randomly cutting contact.. phone numbers nolonger working when i was asked to call back the next day)
i've waited each time to see if theyd get back intouch..
i'm not someone who goes from one to another really. i'd feel bad it might seem rather silly but.. the way i see it is.. im not going to contact a lot of breeders at once because if there are two kittens i am interested in i am only going to choose one and i would be letting the other down if we had met or if the kitten(because lets face it animals are aware of just as much as we are.) realises that there is someone possibly going to become their new home.
i've already bonded with this little guy quite alot so it's very difficult to walk away especially when i know i can give him such a GOOD home.
i have a ragdoll cat, she was spayed a little late because i was so fussy about choosing a vet after my mouse was overdosed.
and now she (you know the call mommy cats do to call their kittens?) she does that alot and becomes very distressed about it i think she probably thinks she has a litter and canm't find them(shes kind of dopey like that.. if i play babycats crying for their mom she will come running wide eyes crying for them and looking desperately) the spaying was part of the contract i signed. she has a blocked tear duct because of a cold she caught when she was very young(still with her breeder i found her last min, i'd been looking for a ragdoll kitten for a while.. i couldnt take both her and her sister i didnt think my mom would allow it, but i wonder alot.. about her sister she was so lovely too. i think because she couldnt be rehomed she was put to sleep -__-) because the breeder was adimant she couldnt keep them with her, theyd be no good for shows or breeding, but they were her 'world' and i'd be taking 'a piece of her heart' with me.. actually as soon as i left her feedback in her gb she cut contact, we've sent her updates, videos, photos of my kitty but no interest at all! not even messaged us or phoned to see if she had been spayed! we emailed her when she had but.. nothing.
it's such a shame. it doesnt matter! that she has a blocked tear duct she is PERFECT.nobody would buy her or her sister because of that?
so the kitten really.. i've wanted a mainecoon for a while but, it's also for my ragdoll my moms cat is nice to her, they play sometimes, he generally stays clear, and if she wants to play with him'( she used to play chase with me and play fight b ut i really think shes going through a phase where she wants nothing to do with mommy D: now she has friends.. T_T when hes around i get completely ignored.. or even pushed away if i try to cuddle her >_<!) i think a kitten would be good for her, my moms cat is really really old so he doesnt do much u_u.. i'm hoping she'll adopt the kitten as the baby she's been looking for and think she's finally found him(which will make me a nana ._.'') i dont want to buy too far from my area as the travel is distressing for the kitten.
(Miyu was fine though when we got her home, she cried in the car a bit but as soon as she was out in my room she was playing with me then we fell asleep together  (she fell asleep on my chest <3 ))
but it seems the breeders in my area are.. i dont know.. sketchy? im sure theyre good breeders and their animals are healthy. if it were a case of them not looking after their animals i'd of called somebody by now ^_^; and i wouldnt consider buying. i'd rescue any animal that needed it really but i refuse to fund animal cruelty, especially in the form of bad breeders.
i did give her quite a bit of time to ask anything she needed, but she just doesn't seem very interested at all.
i researched and waited for almost a year because i wanted to make sure miyu had all the attention from me while she was still developing and such.. now she's... well shes in this phase she doesn't seem to need or want me at all right now:glare: apart from the odd occasion my moms cat isnt around and she turns into a softycat ball of mush on me.
really shes acting like a teenager u_u;;
her eye isnt troublesome at all by the way, it needs wiping with warm water now and then but other than the occasional build up it doesn't cause her much hassle.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol well there are people out there fdoing just that! so never be fooled!
> 
> there is no reason why you cant visit now, and just say to her Ill leave a deposit when I visit at 9weeks old and know the kitten exists and are healthy. the only reason people would accept a deposit as if the person lives the other side of the country and cant get to you, but you have spoke at leangth on the phone


actually i think what i'm going to do is, get her address. and check out that it's a genuine one by their taking her the cheque or cash. 
or if i pay to her bank i will get written proof that, i (my name) paid this money into this account at (date) signed by (person who dealt with me) and i provided genuine identification.
i can't really google and type in what age to breeders allow their mc's to be viewed or when do breeders accept deposits. because google comes up with such random stuff alot of the time and i'm sure those questions aren't so common(i did try to google it a few times.. i found this site and thats why i asked here)
googles fine for other research and advise but when it comes to things like that it doesn't give much result.(same for books u_u;
i asked her when it would be ok to view them after they were born the answer she gave was 3 weeks. so that's what i thought was the earliest they could be viewed(and after that we'd of visited a few times too to view the kittens and when they were ready to be handled etc by people they're not used to.. we would do that too and see how the kitten was with that also.)


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Neko, can I just ask, are you in the UK? If you are in another country to most of us - USA for instance - then breeders there may do things differently to us.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> In that case any good breeder would keep the kitten until it was well or refund your deposit
> My kittens do not leave until they are a minimum of 13 weeks old and will still feed from their mother up until that time. How is keeping a kitten to that age detrimental? A kitten learns from its mother and its litter mates and just because you may have hand raised other animals it does not make it right to take a kitten from its family until it has learned its behaviour from them.


oh god no that's not how i meant it at all!
i meant that if a kitten is kept TOO LONG(NOT IF A KITTEN IS KEPT UNTIL 13 WEEKS!) i know full well that a kitten learns from it's mother and siblings.
u__u i'm NOT saying "because you may have hand raised other animals it does not make it right to take a kitten from its family until it has learned its behaviour from them"
at ALL! i am saying that because some breeders keep their kittens for such a long time it can be detrimental to how the kitten gets on when they are moved to a new home!
and that keeping them for too long is unreasonable if the person is experienced with young animals.
why the HELL would I (somebody who CARES about animals clearly! and just fyi am from a family of animal rights campeigners..) take a kitten away from it's mother before it is ready? that is NOT what i was on about at ALL! and how dare you for assuming so!

i'm starting to wonder why.. i post for information on when breeders wants deposits and when they meet and if they usually expect deposits before the first viewing. i get such a nasty attitude toweard me and hardly anyone even answers the question in the first place. why did i bother?


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Neko, can I just ask, are you in the UK? If you are in another country to most of us - USA for instance - then breeders there may do things differently to us.


yes i am in the uk. that's why i posted for advice on a uk website. b ut never mind actually.. i really just give up i'm quite tired of the rude, assumptious uncomprehending remarks replied/messages i am getting.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't think anyone is being nasty - just misunderstanding your posts, which are not that easy to read 
Basically a breeder will not take a deposit until a kitten has been viewed and chosen by a prospective buyer. It can be 'optioned' i.e interest shown but no deposit paid, before it has been viewed and then reserved when a deposit is paid. 
The age at which kittens can be viewed is up to the breeder - I allow viewing from around 5 weeks but some do not accept viewings until after the first vaccination at 9 weeks. 
I don't know of any breeders who deliberately keep their kittens for longer than 14 or 15 weeks at the most, unless they have them neutered before leaving.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I want to reply but I agree, your posts are incredibly difficult to read hence people misunderstanding what little they can read.

I assume english is not your first language and you're doing a damn sight better than I could, but the posts are difficult to read.

From what I've gathered your annoyed that she wants a deposit without seeing the kitten first... Yet you want to go to get house and give get the deposit. I don't know if you're doing that in hope if seeing the kitten but I would be wary if seeing a kitten that young, and as taylorbabys said, they don't do anything at that age to 'bond' or see personalities.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I want to reply but I agree, your posts are incredibly difficult to read hence people misunderstanding what little they can read.
> 
> I assume english is not your first language and you're doing a damn sight better than I could, but the posts are difficult to read.
> 
> From what I've gathered your annoyed that she wants a deposit without seeing the kitten first... Yet you want to go to get house and give get the deposit. I don't know if you're doing that in hope if seeing the kitten but I would be wary if seeing a kitten that young, and as taylorbabys said, they don't do anything at that age to 'bond' or see personalities.


I can't even tell positively what colours mine will be at three weeks


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

hi about the eye problem sometimes animals get ingrowing hairs around their just a thought.:001_smile:


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I don't think anyone is being nasty - just misunderstanding your posts, which are not that easy to read
> Basically a breeder will not take a deposit until a kitten has been viewed and chosen by a prospective buyer. It can be 'optioned' i.e interest shown but no deposit paid, before it has been viewed and then reserved when a deposit is paid.
> The age at which kittens can be viewed is up to the breeder - I allow viewing from around 5 weeks but some do not accept viewings until after the first vaccination at 9 weeks.
> I don't know of any breeders who deliberately keep their kittens for longer than 14 or 15 weeks at the most, unless they have them neutered before leaving.


I'm sorry that they're not very easy to read:/ (how exactly? - asking so that hopefully i can make my posts easier to read/understand)
i do think they're being misunderstood too>_<
thank you for answering me, i have heard of breeders keeping their kittens for quite a while longer, that's why i mentioned it, it was just something i don't really agree with. I don't think it's healthy for a kitten to be taken away from it's mother before it is ready, i didn't ever mean that sort of thing, and i know that in _some_ cases it _may_ take longer for the kitten to be ready to be homed.
My moms cat was taken away from his mother way too soon and he's still suckling clothes>_< i can remember him when he was a kitten(despite the fact i was very young too) and if i hadn't had my cat at the time(a cat i grew up with.. not my current kitty miyu, but the cat at the time was my first cat/best friend)i don't know what he would have turned out like really.

on her available kittens page she does have a 'key' that explains the terms used under the kittens.. on her previous litters she has got 'sold' in the key it explains 'deposit' 'optioned' etc.. though on the kitten i am obviously interested in she still has him as completely available.
I'm starting to think that maybe she is leading me along and doesn't(didn't from the start) intend to sell me a kitten and if she gets a deposit in the process then even better basically:/
i didn't expect that it would be possible at 'this' age or 'that' age i simply asked her and in here i stated the age she gave me, and stated the age she then said later on.

thats also another thing she hasn't mentioned, and i hadn't realised until now, the breeder i bought miyu from asked me if i wanted her to have her vaccinations and be spayed before coming to me(and if so it would be 'such and such' price and take until 'such and such' age) or if i wanted to do that myself, i chose to do it myself, once i had met her i just couldn't walk away. we instantly bonded, though i didn't expect that to happen at all, and i was quite suprised when i realised we had fallen asleep, and it was like she'd been with us from the start. there was never any hiding under my bed or running away or being unsure of me and my mom at all. she was instantly part of our family


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I don't agree that it's unhealthy to keep kittens longer. I don't know many who do unless there are health issues or at the new buyers request, but I do not think it is unhealthy. 
Many cats live for years in shelters, or go to new owners after years and they settle into their new homes absolutely fine. I doubt a couple of weeks extra at a breeder will impact them in a negative way. 

Many breeders won't put reserved on cats until a deposit is received due to timewasters but will usually honour the first person to show interest until it becomes obvious they are not getting the kitten. My first kitten wasn't taken down from the website until the week after I brought him home as the breeders weren't online every day to update.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I want to reply but I agree, your posts are incredibly difficult to read hence people misunderstanding what little they can read.
> 
> I assume english is not your first language and you're doing a damn sight better than I could, but the posts are difficult to read.
> 
> From what I've gathered your annoyed that she wants a deposit without seeing the kitten first... Yet you want to go to get house and give get the deposit. I don't know if you're doing that in hope if seeing the kitten but I would be wary if seeing a kitten that young, and as taylorbabys said, they don't do anything at that age to 'bond' or see personalities.


>_< english is my first language, i'm scottish, i've lived in england my whole life, it's just sometimes on the internet since you can't hear the tone of somebodys voice and such you take things wrong if they're a little ambiguous, also you'll probably find that depending on websites people speak differently, it's hard to explain that but if they're in communities for a while they talk the same way, and it's easier to understand eachother.
though i'm not very good with getting things into context when i am upset, i have adhd so i do tend to have a _lot_ of things to say all at the same time, and find it difficult to put them into order, if my posts going from one point back to another then to another point is the reason they're difficult to understand then that would be my adhd.

i was confused that she wanted a deposit before i met the kitten when she originally said the kittens are viewable at 3 weeks.
at the time i made the post i was very distressed and anxious, not angry.
i'm not doing it in hope of seeing the kitten, if any breeder, even this one(even though she's messing me around a bit) doesn't want the kittens to be viewed until a certain time then i respect that, i wouldnt ever go against it, what's best for the kitten is best for the kitten. the point in going there is to have her address and confirm that she is infact living there, because if i were to give her my deposit online and have no address for her then she could easily just drop contact and disappear!(it has happened before when i have commissioned something to be made for me, i paid by paypal, and didn't get an address the seller strung me along saying they were making it, or sending replacements up until it was too late to file a dispute and then they shut down their account and email address and disappeared, this seller hadn't done something like that until then, her feedback was perfect. she saw an opportunity and took it.)
So if i decide i've my heart set on this kitten(i'm the sort of person like that u_u; i'd feel like i'd let it down, by the way i'm leaving gender ambiguous incase the breeder finds this post and it causes hassle)
and decide to pay a deposit to the breeder then i want to have evidence that i paid incase she tries to wriggle out of it, and knowledge of where she is so that if she does try to rip me off i can give my solicitor her address.
though, when my sisters cat had kittens, by 3 weeks they did have their personalitys:/ they were a little scatty because she couldn't handle them very much but they had their own personalitys one of them was really outgoing and cute and purry. though i think it might depend on the cat and maybe that was just a one in a billion occurance.
I just don't want to buy a kitten, without meeting it at all and i was worried that, that might be what this is leading to.
kittens are constantly bonding with their mom and siblings from the moment they're born and their mother is washing them, the padding, the purring, all of it. bonding with people at that age is probably different.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I can't even tell positively what colours mine will be at three weeks


she's confirmed the kittens colouring and patterning, and it's clear in the pictures too, though as with most breeds it will change over time and become stronger, it can take a while for the colour to completely develope as when cats get their adult coat it changes too(miyu has finally stopped changing colour and she's a year and a bit now. ragdoll.), it's colours already completely there and pattern. they may darken or become more defined over the space of a year or so but basically it's quite blatant what colour and pattern it is.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Shorter sentences would help a little but I'm not going to be a grammar pedant, especially when my iPhone likes to mess my words up.

You're wording was very ambiguous about taking cats as you said 'when they are independent and eating an experienced person can take them.' that criteria can be met at 6 weeks. At 13 weeks any responsible person can take them, absolutely no need for experience. 

I wouldn't be putting down a deposit on a kitten at 3 weeks. You are not letting the cat down by not taking it in any way. It's thinking of nothing but grub at the moment. 
She doesn't sound like a good breeder from your description. Have you spoke to her on the phone? How old are you?


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

neko said:


> she's confirmed the kittens colouring and patterning, and it's clear in the pictures too, though as with most breeds it will change over time and become stronger, it can take a while for the colour to completely develope as when cats get their adult coat it changes too(miyu has finally stopped changing colour and she's a year and a bit now. ragdoll.), it's colours already completely there and pattern. they may darken or become more defined over the space of a year or so but basically it's quite blatant what colour and pattern it is.


Some breeds are harder to tell so young and it is not always blatant, also some colours can fade and become lighter.

I think lyn knows if she can tell her kitten colours.... She's not daft. We all know colours change....


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> hi about the eye problem sometimes animals get ingrowing hairs around their just a thought.:001_smile:


no theres no ingrown hairs, it was confirmed as a blocked tear duct, the breeder took her to the vet several times trying to give her medication for it, when she had a bad reaction to one of the medications she was tried on the breeder stopped. my vet has also had a look at her eye, and she's perfectly fine, it's a blocked tear duct but her eye is very clean.
overall her health is perfect. 
it becomes irritated sometimes when we're cleaning the house, and theres dust or even like perfume sometimes irritates it, generally it's fine though, like i said it just needs wiping with warm water now and then. it runs when she eats and when she's playing.
and obviously not perfume ON my cat.. but if someones wearing perfume miyu will squint her one eye at it because some how it irritates her eye lol


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Some breeds are harder to tell so young and it is not always blatant, also some colours can fade and become lighter.
> 
> I think lyn knows if she can tell her kitten colours.... She's not daft. We all know colours change....


...i didnt say or think that she was daft, or that she doesn't know her kitten colours..?
i was just saying that it is quite blatant what colour and pattern the kitten is.


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

well to cut a long story short... your obviously happy with the situation even though your complaining about it.

seems like regardless of what we say ur going to do what ever u want to do..

so good luck  

make sure u show us lots of pics when u get your new pet


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## catsmum (Feb 4, 2011)

often breeders, when they get to know a prospective buyer a little bit better, decide they dont want to let their kitten go to that person and instead of just coming out and saying that directly, they start to slightly muck the buyer around in the hope that the buyer decides to go elsewhere

I get the feeling that this breeder is either a con person or a good breeder who on getting to know the OP better, doesnt want to sell to the OP and because of that is starting to go back on her word regards age of visits etc

cant say i blame the breeder (although I would just say a direct no), after the OPs display on this thread, i wouldnt let one of my kittens go to them, adhd or not, that bit with the very ambiguous wording about rehoming kittens when theyre eating and independant would send my alarm bells ringing, not to mention that the OP stuffs up his/her statement, then blames Lymorelynn for reading it wrong. 

OP, I feel the breeder doesnt want to sell to you and is just being polite by stringing you along because they feel a direct no would be hurtful to you. You'll probably find even if you do pay a deposit, it will be refunded after a while as your kitten has some mysterious illness and cant be rehomed for that reason.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

neko said:


> yes i am in the uk. that's why i posted for advice on a uk website. b ut never mind actually.. i really just give up i'm quite tired of the rude, assumptious uncomprehending remarks replied/messages i am getting.


I don't see anyone being rude to you, at least I haven't seen it as far as I have read so far. People are advising you not to go with this breeder and explaining why they don't let people visit three week old kittens, that's all. It's your decision, people here can only give advice.

Liz


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## MatildaG (Nov 8, 2010)

I've not seen anyone being rude either. And if there have been any misunderstandings, I'm sorry Neko but it's because your posts are so hard to read. 

You obviously still want to go ahead with the kitten despite your 'complaints' so I'm not sure what further advice you need? I'm still not sure why you don't just call the breeder and talk it all through with her/him.

MG x


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## Guest (May 11, 2011)

Hey, don't let certain people put you off this forum....I didn't let them get to me 

Good luck with what ever you decide 

Hope you stick around & you have some kitten pics soon!

From Nic & Maisie our Ragdoll kitten x



Ps) apparently I was also a troll (yawn)


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

To be fair, I am struggling a little to understand what you have written which might be leading to some of these misunderstandings. I think you, perhaps, should take your time when writing a long post and think about how you are saying things and where you put in your punctuation to ensure your meaning is a little clearer. There again, maybe it is only me that is struggling.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Shorter sentences would help a little but I'm not going to be a grammar pedant, especially when my iPhone likes to mess my words up.


Yup! Mine does too, all the time. :tongue_smilie:

I don't normally comment when people use wrong spellings, grammar, punctuation etc., in this case, however, it appears to be causing some misunderstanding and upset which isn't good for anyone.:001_smile:


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

Being GCCF registered doesn't make someone a good breeder, the fact that they have a decent sized banned list should tell you that, it also doesn't mean that their cats are health tested, the majority of Somali breeders (my kitten is a Somali) only test for PKD and not PRA which is a disease also very common to this breed, there are plenty of GCCF registered breeders who wont even talk about it.

The ambiguity over when you can visit the kittens and the issue with deposits are reason enough to steer clear of this breeder, but the fact that they are avoiding contact with you would make me walk away. If they were a decent breeder then they would want to know all about you and where their kitten was going and I know you are an experienced pet owner but you should stil be able to know that you could get hold of the breeder if you had a problem or question etc.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Wow.. so after looking around a little more on here, i find that the people causing problems on my thread(or rather.. drama) actually do it alot on other peoples, that says alot huh? also alot of the things that have been spewed out at me are overused terms/points by these people, completely unjustified and inaccurate. not only that! they followed one person around on here commenting their threads! why? if you don't like someone stay away from them, i have just turned 20 and i am probably alot more mature and levelheaded, not to mention comprehending than alot of these people.
Why don't you bully someone face to face next time? instead of hiding behind your computer screens and plucking out who you think will be the easiest target to victimise.
because that's what you are doing, you are pointlessly, needlessly bullying people!
Does it make you feel good about yourselves? do you *really *_need _that?
I think it's absolutely pathetic.
I think it's also pathetic that alot of people on here turn a blind eye and go along with what people say, ofcourse noones going to comment this here and say actually you should *not* have said this or _this_ to the person who made this thread as it's quite clear youre putting words into her mouth and ignoring what's blatantly obvious.
I guess people take things how they _see_ them in general, huh.
Oh.. don't bother replying, these are rhetorical questions.
But a bit of advice? do go learn the difference between they're, there, their, and your, you're.
I suppose you're the kinds of people who say they _could_ care less when trying to show how much they _don't_ care.
So as for you and your invalid unjustified, obnoxious 'opinions'(can we even really call it that?) about me?
I really could_n't_ care less


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

dom85 said:


> Being GCCF registered doesn't make someone a good breeder, the fact that they have a decent sized banned list should tell you that, it also doesn't mean that their cats are health tested, the majority of Somali breeders (my kitten is a Somali) only test for PKD and not PRA which is a disease also very common to this breed, there are plenty of GCCF registered breeders who wont even talk about it.
> 
> The ambiguity over when you can visit the kittens and the issue with deposits are reason enough to steer clear of this breeder, but the fact that they are avoiding contact with you would make me walk away. If they were a decent breeder then they would want to know all about you and where their kitten was going and I know you are an experienced pet owner but you should stil be able to know that you could get hold of the breeder if you had a problem or question etc.


Ofcourse it doesn't 100% _make_ someone a good breeder, but i'd of expected it would count for _something_ otherwise there's not much point. i _expected_ they would have high standards that breeders would have to go by.
It was stated on the breeders website that they were health tested. ofcourse upon purchasing my kitten i would expect full documents, paperworks and certificates.
Besides that theres also the fact that usually breeders wont let their studs be rented if the queens are not tested for certain things, and same for the studs too! Both cats are hers but i'm sure if she intends to use these services(or has) then ofcourse she would have had the test.

Just a note because people don't seem to be getting this;
I am _done_ with this thread, and the kinds of people commenting on it, i don't really understand _why_ people are still replying when the original post was overwritten by me today. Therefore you can't really see what this post was about in the first place, and the comments that occured were actually not so related to my thread/question in the first place.
Besides according to SO many people here.. i'm HAPPY with the situation?
I've MADE up my mind so why post this thread?
thank you soo much! for putting words into my mouth! 
When it makes sense that since i made this post i wasnt SURE what to do or what i WANTED to do at all!
and in all truth i'm still not but eh.. don't take my word for it when you can so easily choose to take what i say wrong, and put words into my mouth
But to this person^(the one i quoted in this comment) thank you for your reply x
"The ambiguity over when you can visit the kittens and the issue with deposits are reason enough to steer clear of this breeder, but the fact that they are avoiding contact with you would make me walk away. If they were a decent breeder then they would want to know all about you and where their kitten was going and I know you are an experienced pet owner but you should stil be able to know that you could get hold of the breeder if you had a problem or question etc."
Is exactly my thoughts on the matter in the first place. I wanted to make sure i wasn't being panicky and ignoring things that may be an obvious reason; saying the deposit is at 3weeks so that i am reassured my kitten is secured for me. non replying;the breeder could have been busy etc..
But i'm pretty sure this isn't the case, though since the breeder was like this with me from the beginning i very much doubt that it's a case of 'disliking' me.


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## ajohnson (May 4, 2011)

neko said:


> But a bit of advice? do go learn the difference between they're, there, their, and your, you're.
> )


Then may I give _you_ some advice?

*a lot 
*victimize
*nobody's
*you're
*patronized
*independent

Pot calling the kettle black dear.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

ajohnson said:


> *of course is two words.


I think ofcourse is a scottish thing, was how I was taught to spell it in primary/secondary school too


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

neko said:


> Ofcourse it doesn't 100% _make_ someone a good breeder, but i'd of expected it would count for _something_ otherwise there's not much point. i _expected_ they would have high standards that breeders would have to go by.
> It was stated on the breeders website that they were health tested. ofcourse upon purchasing my kitten i would expect full documents, paperworks and certificates.


I know, it's a bloody minefield, I was/am very lucky that I know someone who is a very good breeder and she has helped me see the good guys from the bad. Have you tried phoning from a witheld number to see if she anwers? Although if it were me I would probably start looking at alternatives.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> Yup! Mine does too, all the time. :tongue_smilie:
> 
> I don't normally comment when people use wrong spellings, grammar, punctuation etc., in this case, however, it appears to be causing some misunderstanding and upset which isn't good for anyone.:001_smile:


Oh sweetness.. what isn't good for _anyone_ is pathetic little idiots who feel the need to bully people online 
Your little friend can't even use 'your' and 'you're' properly.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't think you're being panicky as I would walk away from this one as well (which may make me the panicky one but I would need to feel 100% comfortable and I wouldn't in these circumstances)


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

ajohnson said:


> Then may I give _you_ some advice?
> 
> *a lot
> *victimize
> ...


And the point in this? none.
The relivance? none.
-__-
and clearly, they're not major mistakes, so how is that an excuse for not comprehending? they're that much of a big deal? no didn't think so.


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## ajohnson (May 4, 2011)

neko said:


> And the point in this? none.
> The relivance? none.
> -__-
> and clearly, they're not major mistakes, so how is that an excuse for not comprehending? they're that much of a big deal? no didn't think so.


Then may I suggest not making the exact same point yourself when people are just trying to help you.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

cant everyone just leave this now its starting to see a lil bit harsh on the op cant we all just get along please


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

neko said:


> Oh sweetness.. what isn't good for _anyone_ is pathetic little idiots who feel the need to bully people online
> Your little friend can't even use 'your' and 'you're' properly.


Hey! I was trying to be nice and explain why misunderstandings might have been taking place. It wasn't meant as a personal attack but you are clearly one nasty piece of work. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason why the breeder is being difficult with you. You have a serious problem!


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Gratch said:


> I think ofcourse is a scottish thing, was how I was taught to spell it in primary/secondary school too


_aha, actually if people are to be so petty, the reason for my strange spelling of things is; my fiance is canadian. He doesn't spell things entirely accurately, but it's perfectly readable.
I talk to him alot on skype when he isn't here. Eventually I started to pick up on the way he spells things, it simple.. rubbed off.
Nothing more, nothing less. I'm actually perfectly adequate in english, literature, grammer etc..
Can't believe how pathetic and petty some people are ^__^ and yet i'm the one who is labelled as a troll? haah!
It's the internet, a conversation. Not an essay._


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> cant everyone just leave this now its starting to see a lil bit harsh on the op cant we all just get along please


No! Not when I'm attacked unnecessarily.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> Hey! I was trying to be nice and explain why misunderstandings might have been taking place. It wasn't meant as a personal attack but you are clearly one nasty piece of work. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason why the breeder is being difficult with you. You have a serious problem!


Thank you ^_^ for letting the pretentiousness drop. ^her true self right there everybody  theere you go!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

neko said:


> if you don't like someone stay away from them, i have just turned 20 and i am probably alot more mature and levelheaded, not to mention comprehending than alot of these people.


I am glad you are so comprehending. I am struggling to be comprehending with your posts.

Perhaps instead I should try to comprehend the posts, rather than be comprehending with them...

I feel you do not comprehend what I am saying. I am sorry but I imagine the breeder thinks that you are about 12-13, as that is the level at which you write. I wasn't intending to be harsh in my first posts but as you have your knickers in a twist I may as well state it like it is.

Your writing level is extremely low and the breeder probably thinks you are very VERY young. I would never have pegged you at 20. Surely you can spot the grammar, syntax, spelling and format differences between your posts and the majority of everyone elses.... or perhaps you are too comprehending for that.


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> No! Not when I'm attacked unnecessarily.


Oh ofcourse you're the one being attacked :001_smile:


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## neko (May 8, 2011)

ajohnson said:


> Then may I suggest not making the exact same point yourself when people are just trying to help you.


I made my point, because _they_ were so zoned in on my own tiny little mistakes, yet they're making their own all over the place.
Theres a difference between helping someone, and stating random things that they didn't even ask about, assuming, putting words into their mouth and being petty.
_*I*_ was upset, their excuse?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

neko said:


> Thank you ^_^ for letting the pretentiousness drop. ^her true self right there everybody  theere you go!


You are a really nasty, unpleasant person. I think the best thing to do with someone like you is put you on ignore.

By the way, I think you are illiterate.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

And you were labelled as a troll as you said you didn't agree with keeping a kitten back too long and that letting it go when it is 'independent and eating to an experienced person.' This was AFTER being upset you couldn't go see it and put a deposit on it at 3 weeks. Not so much upset that they wanted a deposit so young, but that you couldn't see it first. I would run a mile from anyone letting me view a kitten at 3 weeks. But, as you have a pedigree cat, you clearly know all their is about having cats.

How else can that be read? An inexperienced person can take a 12 week old kitten and be absolutely fine. There is no need for an 'experience' requirement. It read very much as you saying you wanted a very young kitten to bond asap. I am sorry if you cannot understand how people read your posts, but to be honest, we can't understand your post either.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> You are a really nasty, unpleasant person. I think the best thing to do with someone like you is put you on ignore.
> 
> By the way, I think you are illiterate.


ONLY think? I think you are illiterate if you are not certain of the fact


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If this thread is just going to turn into an argument over spelling and grammar and sarcastic remarks between members, I will close it.
Neko, people have tried to answer your points as clearly as they can. They have made assumptions based on what you have posted and I do not think you have been bullied by anyone here. I found your original posts hard to follow because of the lack of punctuation and insertion of emoticons and I apologise if you were misunderstood


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

neko said:


> I made my point, because _they_ were so zoned in on my own tiny little mistakes, yet they're making their own all over the place.
> Theres a difference between helping someone, and stating random things that they didn't even ask about, assuming, putting words into their mouth and being petty.
> _*I*_ was upset, their excuse?


Tiny mistakes! It was practically incomprehensible. I've seen primary school children write using better grammar, punctuation and spelling. We all make typing errors, occasional spelling errors and errors due to self-correcting phones but I can barely bring myself to read most of what you have written it's so bad.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

close it.....its prob best.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Enough. Thread closed


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