# UIN required to register kittens???????



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Can anyone shed any light on the requirement to enter UIN details to register kittens with the GCCF? By definition the reg. no. is a UIN but this isn't what they want. I have two owners of queens who have used my stud unable to register litters because of this and I can't find anything on any of my GCCF documentation which might fit the bill.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Could it be his microchip number?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Turns out it's a number on the new style reg certs but not on the old, just been sent a link to the newsletter. My six year old boy will have to be neutered - in a breed short of studs.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

unique identifying number. I had to ask the stud owner for it when registering my current litter. Can you not be given a number @havoc?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It simply doesn't exist for studs registered before a given date when the new registration cards came in. Will be ringing the vet tomorrow. So sad, this boy has been siring kittens which have been storming the bench across Europe.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

havoc said:


> It simply doesn't exist for studs registered before a given date when the new registration cards came in.


Surely there must be exceptions for older cats. If the office cannot help perhaps a member of the Board could give you the information.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

This happens to have hit with two breeders I know well and trust me. Had it been someone who didn't know me so well it could have been very different. I'm not sure I have the stomach to fight the GCCF on it. Negotiations on registering the litters are ongoing because they have to be. Beyond that I don't think there's any future for my lad as a stud.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It seems ridiculous - there must be stud cats in so many breeds that were registered before the date. I hope something can be done


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

lymorelynn said:


> It seems ridiculous - there must be stud cats in so many breeds that were registered before the date. I hope something can be done


If ever you wanted an example of 'computer says no' I think this is it. They've now got it as part of the registration process - end of discussion.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have just looked at the registration form on the GCCF website and I cannot see any mention of a UIN. Is it only for online registrations?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

That's just stupid, surely there must be a way to get older studs registered? Could he not still work under registration of another organisation? It seems madness that a top stud can no longer work because of some jobsworth attitude to a change of numbering system...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It came up when I went to register my kittens online this time. I've never been asked for it before


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

QOTN said:


> I have just looked at the registration form on the GCCF website and I cannot see any mention of a UIN. Is it only for online registrations?


Don't know. I've been asked for it by two breeders in the last week, one who registers quite late and one who registers early on so it's hit twice in a short period.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> Don't know. I've been asked for it by two breeders in the last week, one who registers quite late and one who registers early on so it's hit twice in a short period.


Are they going to be able to register their kittens? It seems very unfair that stud owners haven't been told about this


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Jesthar said:


> That's just stupid, surely there must be a way to get older studs registered?


Forgive me Jetstar but he IS a perfectly properly GCCF registered cat! Or at least he was.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> Forgive me Jetstar but he IS a perfectly properly GCCF registered cat!


No, forgive me - I'm tired and what I said and what I meant are two different things...

What I _meant_ was 'surely there must be a way to get active cats registered under the old style numbering system a new style number if that is required to register kittens' - I don't doubt he's properly registered 

Now, what's my name again?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Jesthar said:


> Now, what's my name again


Sorry - mea culpa. I too am tired and absolutely fizzing . My one consolation is that I've allowed his progeny to go for breeding throughout Europe so the line will continue. One of the current litter was due to go as a stud but if they can't be registered then that's a busted flush.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Whoa, Whoa, whoa!! The UIN is only needed for cats to be transferred online not for registration itself.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Could you let the GCCF office know this please. I've found the wording on the newsletter which is as follows -

If you register a litter via the office and do not own the Sire, we will *always* need the mating certificate.

If you register online, you will *always* need the mating certificate, unless the Stud Owner is prepared to give you the*last 3 digits* of the Stud's UIN. You can enter these during the registration, and not be asked for a mating certificate

However, even though I always supply a mating cert (old school) the UIN is still being asked for.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

havoc said:


> Could you let the GCCF office know this please. I've found the wording on the newsletter which is as follows -
> 
> If you register a litter via the office and do not own the Sire, we will *always* need the mating certificate.
> 
> ...


So you don't own the stud??


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Ah sorry @havoc I think I see the issue now.

OK because these people are registering kittens online and don't own the stud themselves they will need to register the kittens the old way, via the form, including the mating certificate and posted snail mail. Eventually this issue will become an ex-problem, as all of the working studs will be registered after the new registration certificates with UINs came in. But for now breeders will just have to fill in the form by hand. Absolutely no need to neuter the stud over this.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I own the stud - not the queens. It is other breeders who have used my stud who can't register litters because my lad doesn't have a UIN which only exists on the newer style reg certs.

I've just been sent a screenshot - there is a box to tick saying you have a mating cert but it doesn't negate the need for a UIN.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Tigermoon said:


> But for now breeders will just have to fill in the form by hand. Absolutely no need to neuter the stud over this


The hours spent on the phone with the GCCF office by three of us over the last week suggest otherwise. Honestly - it's 'computer says no'.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

havoc said:


> The hours spent on the phone with the GCCF office by three of us over the last week suggest otherwise. Honestly - it's 'computer says no'.


Thats rubbish, and to be frank I do honestly wonder if the staff in the office are all the biscuits to the packet sometimes. 
Tell the breeders to fill in the form and send in with the mating certificate. As @QOTN says, the form doesn't ask for UINs, just the cats registration number. https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/Registration.Appn.pdf


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Tigermoon said:


> Thats rubbish, and to be frank I do honestly wonder if the staff in the office are all the biscuits to the packet sometimes


@havoc I can give another example of failure at the office over registrations.
My friend and I are breeding a specific outcross. We both initially registered with TICA, but when she wanted to register with GCCF, even though both parents were GCCF active registered she was told she had to get a TICA certified pedigree, import the cat onto the GCCF register bend over backwards etc. It cost her well over £100. I waited about 6 months then simply went online and registered mine as you would any registration. Cost me £15.

I rest my case ...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

At the last Council Meeting, Sally Rainbow-Ockwell advised contacting Mark Goadby with any online problems or else contact her direct.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I managed to bypass the uni number the other day by just clicking i was not the stud owner and had a mating certificate.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

catcoonz said:


> I managed to bypass the uni number the other day by just clicking i was not the stud owner and had a mating certificate.


Not working for my breeders.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Not quite sure why they are having problems, iv'e just gone on gccf and done a mating certificate to register.
Are they typing CS then the number,, as it works with just the sires registration number, then just click next.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The screenshot I've been sent appears to be of a page after inputting the stud's details, it only shows a box for the UIN and a box to tick if you have a mating cert. Ticking that box should negate the need for the UIN but you can't progress any further - UIN appears to be a required field.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Form still available on GCCF website under downloads makes no mention of UIN, just needs breed, reg no and colour , and if not owner of the stud to provide a mating certificate: https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/Registration.Appn.pdf

Mating certificate on downloads also makes no mention of UIN, just reg name, number and colour of stud and queen:
https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/MatingCert.pdf

Download reg form, fill in by hand, write cheque ( or tick box for paying by card and then telephone office with card number) and should be done.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Catharinem said:


> Download reg form, fill in by hand, write cheque ( or tick box for paying by card and then telephone office with card number) and should be done.


We'll see. You'd think that advice would have been given by the office but seeing as the very woman who does the registrations has been as obstructive as possible I have little faith.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

I hope a nights sleep had restored your energy @havoc



havoc said:


> We'll see. You'd think that advice would have been given by the office but seeing as the very woman who does the registrations has been as obstructive as possible I have little faith.


You can't be the only stud owner in this position so I feel a strongly worded complaint to the board coming on (if you are on Facebook then slap it all over the GCCF page.)

Do ask your breeder friends to do it old school and post the registration form and mating cert to the office. Hopefully all will be well.

Another option is to demand they send you a new registration certificate for your male so that future litters can be registered online.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Definitely a system glitch, you'd think after all the money they'd spent on Project Phoenix it would work  

Definitely don't neuter havoc, would be madness to stop a good stud over the head of piss poor organisation by GCCF. Definitely stick a post up on the Facebook page, and share it with friends to see if they've had similar experience to add to your post and give GCCF a kick up the bum.

In the meantime, sending the mating cert in seems to be the best option.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I've had a play. Leave the UIN empty, put a tick in 'I have a mating certificate' and you can continue. In fact when I tried it the tick was already in 'I have a mating certificate'.

Of course I've not gone to completion since I don't have kittens to register, however I suspect the problem is that the instructions are not clear.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I've had a play. Leave the UIN empty, put a tick in 'I have a mating certificate' and you can continue. In fact when I tried it the tick was already in 'I have a mating certificate'.
> 
> Of course I've not gone to completion since I don't have kittens to register, however I suspect the problem is that the instructions are not clear.


Did you use a stud you owned? That may make the difference (and possibly be why the mating certificate box was already ticked). Another issue is that registration number are no longer prefixed with CS, CSSR etc. and you have to leave these off even on cats who have them on their registration cards (I discovered this for the last litter I registered online).


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> Did you use a stud you owned? That may make the difference (and possibly be why the mating certificate box was already ticked). Another issue is that registration number are no longer prefixed with CS, CSSR etc. and you have to leave these off even on cats who have them on their registration cards (I discovered this for the last litter I registered online).


No I deliberately used a different one, but I suspect it will work just the same if you put in the registration number for one you own.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I put in Basil's number rather than selecting him and it jumped forward to Prefix details. Looks good!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Rufus15 said:


> Definitely don't neuter havoc, would be madness to stop a good stud over the head of piss poor organisation by GCCF


I honestly think it could be a toss up. Once word goes round that the progeny of a stud 'can't be registered online' how many people do you suppose are going to hear the last word of that phrase. There's no value to the breed in just keeping him going for a few repeat mating of breeders who know me and are happy to be denied online registration.

And just for a giggle -one of the phone conversations with the office this week had me being told he couldn't have produced the colours claimed anyway because 'he doesn't carry black'. I kid you not - that's what we're up against.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

havoc said:


> I honestly think it could be a toss up. Once word goes round that the progeny of a stud 'can't be registered online' how many people do you suppose are going to hear the last word of that phrase. There's no value to the breed in just keeping him going for a few repeat mating of breeders who know me and are happy to be denied online registration.
> 
> And just for a giggle -one of the phone conversations with the office this week had me being told he couldn't have produced the colours claimed anyway because 'he doesn't carry black'. I kid you not - that's what we're up against.


Oh dear. There's so many things wrong with that conversation one hardly knows where to begin!

I think you should do as someone else suggested and ask for a UIN to be issued to progeny can be registered online. I cannot understand why GCCF don't hire people from within the cat fancy who understand how breeding and showing works. It's beyond me.

On a slight tangent, a few months ago I made GCCF aware that the time they have said the Supreme opens is not the time Ticket Master have on their tickets. They reassured me it would be clarified and off I went. I got an email on Monday from the NEC giving a third start time for the show. I posted on the Facebook page, no joy. Rang them today to fill them in, they didn't have a clue. Makes you wonder what you pay for really.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

havoc said:


> I honestly think it could be a toss up. Once word goes round that the progeny of a stud 'can't be registered online' how many people do you suppose are going to hear the last word of that phrase. There's no value to the breed in just keeping him going for a few repeat mating of breeders who know me and are happy to be denied online registration.
> 
> And just for a giggle -one of the phone conversations with the office this week had me being told he couldn't have produced the colours claimed anyway because 'he doesn't carry black'. I kid you not - that's what we're up against.


Oh dear god. But it does remind me of the time I rang up to discuss the registration of my cat to be told in a rather petulant tone "We don't have examples of all the cats here you know!". Unfortunately the ladies are just Joe's off the street, I don't think that half of them even own a cat, and they certainly have no idea about colour inheritance etc. In a way, why should they? They are not breeders. But you would have thought the GCCF would have required at least some on-the-job learning so a basic understanding is there. Good Lord I'm not even sure that a couple of them even know how to use the computer as it is!!


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Rufus15 said:


> On a slight tangent, a few months ago I made GCCF aware that the time they have said the Supreme opens is not the time Ticket Master have on their tickets. They reassured me it would be clarified and off I went. I got an email on Monday from the NEC giving a third start time for the show. I posted on the Facebook page, no joy. Rang them today to fill them in, they didn't have a clue. Makes you wonder what you pay for really.


The ladies in the office are not the GCCF, they are just paid to input and send out registrations etc. Basically they are admin staff and that is it. They have no idea what goes on within the GCCF at all as that is all managed by the GCCF Board and its various committees. So unless you are calling to enquire where your registrations documents are they haven't a clue what you are talking about.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> I honestly think it could be a toss up. Once word goes round that the progeny of a stud 'can't be registered online' how many people do you suppose are going to hear the last word of that phrase. There's no value to the breed in just keeping him going for a few repeat mating of breeders who know me and are happy to be denied online registration.
> <snip>


Without going as far as registering non-existent kittens, I think they can be registered online without an UIN. Don't select him from the drop-down, put in his number as if he were someone else's cat. If he's not your cat tick you have a mating certificate, which of course you would provide to all outside queens anyway.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> Without going as far as registering non-existent kittens, I think they can be registered online without an UIN. Don't select him from the drop-down, put in his number as if he were someone else's cat. If he's not your cat tick you have a mating certificate, which of course you would provide to all outside queens anyway.


It doesn't work for me either - cannot progress beyond that screen without a UIN. Beyond my problems - it's a touch concerning that the GCCF systems have an option of 'carrying' black. Lord knows what else is there and I know my boy is wrongly described as carrying chocolate whereas he doesn't but he does carry blue - which isn't there. Now of course this may not actually be on the system, it could just have been that day's story but I was told it was. If so this won't be the only error and the increasing 'computer says no' culture ain't going to get any better.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

havoc said:


> It doesn't work for me either - cannot progress beyond that screen without a UIN. Beyond my problems - it's a touch concerning that the GCCF systems have an option of 'carrying' black. Lord knows what else is there and I know my boy is wrongly described as carrying chocolate whereas he doesn't but he does carry blue - which isn't there. Now of course this may not actually be on the system, it could just have been that day's story but I was told it was. If so this won't be the only error and the increasing 'computer says no' culture ain't going to get any better.


Based on my own experiences and those of friends who've had to battle against the woman in the office, I'm afraid it'll be the latter. I very much doubt the computer had any problem at all registering the offspring of your male, however 'brick wall' comes to mind when speaking to the office staff sometimes. I do think this whole debacle needs bringing to the attention of those on the board, in particular Sally.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I think an email to Mark would be best initially and then contact with Sally if Mark is unable to sort the problem.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

havoc said:


> I honestly think it could be a toss up. Once word goes round that the progeny of a stud 'can't be registered online' how many people do you suppose are going to hear the last word of that phrase. There's no value to the breed in just keeping him going for a few repeat mating of breeders who know me and are happy to be denied online registration.


 Is it really going to put people off using an otherwise well matched stud?

Let's see, there's stud A who is ideal but I have to print off a form and post it.

Or stud B who is less good match for my queen, but I can save myself 5 minutes paperwork over tbe 5 months pregnancy and kitten care? Tough call!

PS, I have NEVER reg online, always paper, and photocopy. It's not that hard. Mountain and Molehill come to mind, and quite possibly Storm and Teacup.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

I would advise speaking to your BAC as I have had problems importing cats in with FIFe 4 generation pedigrees which is acceptable for the Breed registration policies but the office staff have said no as the computer requires 5 generations. Both times after speaking to the BAC the registration have gone through with a four gen pedigree as most FIFe members only produce 4, FElis Britannica is the exception. 

Alternatively you could just register with Felis Brittanica and Import the cats back into GCCF.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Sounds like a horror story to be fair. As far as I have sealed with GCCF office, I have had no problems and all was done very quick (cat import done in 2!! days).
Ladies in the office has responded fast to emails as well.
I hope I will never deal with the side of GCCF office you are talking about.. :Banghead It seems ridiculous that you can't register a litter if stud is with old type reg number. This shouldn't be hard to adjust (I mean online system), as far as I can see, the website/online account is being improved all the time. And the fact that GCCF office can't advise what to do


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Catharinem said:


> PS, I have NEVER reg online, always paper, and photocopy. It's not that hard. Mountain and Molehill come to mind, and quite possibly Storm and Teacup


You're so right - must be wonderful to live in your world.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Vantuuz said:


> It seems ridiculous that you can't register a litter if stud is with old type reg number.


It isn't the reg number that's the problem it's the lack of a UIN. Cats registered when the old style pink slip was used don't have a UIN on their paperwork.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Apologies, my mistake.. 

However (now just thinking loud), if their new requirement is that UIN is a MUST HAVE, then they should issue this to the cats registered before new UIN came in to force. And if no-one thought of that, now when there was a call to GCCF office, they should quickly figure out how to resolve this not send the stud owner away with "We can't help, that's the requirement"..

God, 6 years is not even old  Boy is in his best years


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

havoc said:


> You're so right - must be wonderful to live in your world.


Downloads on their website as of tonight, do not require UIN.

Download, fill in, send off, let us know next week if a genuine problem.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Vantuuz said:


> <snip>
> It seems ridiculous that you can't register a litter if stud is with old type reg number. This shouldn't be hard to adjust (I mean online system), as far as I can see, the website/online account is being improved all the time. And the fact that GCCF office can't advise what to do


It's nothing to do with old or new registration numbers, but with if there is a UIN on his registration card. I have these on some of the cards from the previous system.

My experiments suggest it can be done online, you just don't select the stud from the dropdown but instead enter his registration number as if he's someone else's stud and tick that you have a mating certificate. Some people say that hasn't worked, what I would do in their situation is start a new registration, discarding the partly complete registration.

PS for me I would have to use one of the online sites that allow me to 'type' into a PDF. My hand writing is awful, I loved registering online as there was no doubt about what names I put in.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

GCCF just gets more and more difficult all the time! Dreading registering my next litter with them, and wonderint whether to just go completely TICA now.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> GCCF just gets more and more difficult all the time! Dreading registering my next litter with them, and wonderint whether to just go completely TICA now.


I had no problem getting to the point of being asked to enter the names of the kittens when I had a play.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

havoc said:


> Can anyone shed any light on the requirement to enter UIN details to register kittens with the GCCF? By definition the reg. no. is a UIN but this isn't what they want. I have two owners of queens who have used my stud unable to register litters because of this and I can't find anything on any of my GCCF documentation which might fit the bill.


Had this problem with our recent litter. All that GCCF wanted in the end was for me to send them the mating certificate. So I was able to register the litter online as usual and pay for it. Then sent the mating certificate to GCCF and received the registration certificates for the kittens in a few days.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

@havoc what was the outcome in the end? Did you manage to get the litters registered?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I think it was that you tick that you have a mating certificate even though it's your own stud.


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