# Rescue dogs from abroad



## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.

I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Do you feel the same way about people adopting foreign children instead of ones in this country? 

A heck of a lot of the shelters in other countries are much, much worse than the bad ones over here.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

PoisonGirl said:


> Do you feel the same way about people adopting foreign children instead of ones in this country?
> 
> A heck of a lot of the shelters in other countries are much, much worse than the bad ones over here.


TBH, I've never given that any thought?

I get your point about shelters sometimes being worse but is that still better than condemning a dog over here?


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## Hannahmourneevans (Dec 16, 2012)

A dog is a dog no matter where it is from. If I see a dog I can help, I will help it regardless. 

So no, I havent given it much thought. Its a tough one but in my mind once the plight of one is brought to my attention I just want to help regardless.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I've mused on that myself...why import more dogs when we already have a rescue crisis. But like PG says their shelter conditions are much worse, and many of the dogs are feral and in danger of being killed by hateful people.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


A dogs a dog , who is to say one deserves to live more than the other (unless one has issues ). I do get the argument that the funds to rescue 1 from say Spain could help 2-3 dogs here though.

Also a lot of dogs bought over are different breeds to what you get here, not everyone wan't a bullie cross. ( I do know you can get other breeds via rescue  )


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Rescues here condem plenty of dogs themselves, seeing there is also the point that so many deny someone a dog because of silly pathetic reasons ie no garden, better these people rescued from elsewhere, abroad or not than support a byb or puppy farm IMO.
I get that there is a rescue crisis in this country, but that shouldn't mean that dogs elsewhere don't deserve a family


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


I agree with you, we have enough homeless dogs and puppies in the country without bringing even more over here.

Having said that, I would never say no to rescuing a dog purely because it was shipped over here from another country.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

My parents were close to adopting a lovely romanian rescue pup but the timing wasn't right. Where they live rescue centres have nothing that would suit them, unless they wanted an older dog of staffy/ staffy cross. Local breed rescues had nothing so decided to look into Romanian rescues due to the severity of the situation over their. It's defenatly something we would also consider as we would more than likely find a dog that would suit our family compared, to local rescues, dogs trust, SSPCA, local rescues don't have anything we would consider/ want or most likely be aloud to rehome. (Staffy/ staffy crosses, terriers, large older dogs etc)


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> I agree with you, we have enough homeless dogs and puppies in the country without bringing even more over here.
> 
> .


You could use the same argument regarding people buying puppies from breeders  At the end of the day its a personal choice where you get your dogs from, and if UK rescues are losing out they need to think about why that is.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I personally don't think I could adopt from abroad, but I have no problems with others doing so. I feel so sorry for ALL unwanted dogs, I wish I could help more but I've always believed in Charity begins at home, but that's not to say if I saw a needy dog abroad I wouldn't do all I can to help it. My ex husband brought a dog back from Greece many years ago. Probably one of the few decent things he ever did IMO.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

If it's the right dog for someone then does it really matter whether it's from the UK, Spain, Greece or wherever? 

I looked into rescuing a dog from Cyprus but was put off by the fact you meet the dog when you pick it up at the airport. I know it's not really feasible for them to fly a dog out to meet a potential new owner but I'm afraid I don't want to commit to owning a dog I've never laid eyes on.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

It's interesting to hear all points of view. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't deserve a chance

I am involved with my own breed rescue and we have many in all the time but still some are being brought over which means one of ours is overlooked, not placed or worse


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> You could use the same argument regarding people buying puppies from breeders  .


Not really the same at all! Most who import puppy's from overseas breeders are looking to bring new bloodlines


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

pearltheplank said:


> Not really the same at all! Most who import puppy's from overseas breeders are looking to bring new bloodlines


Of course its the same, why buy a new puppy when there's so many already in shelters? And I don't think peopel are looking to buy new bloodlines, if anything I think it shows there is a good demand for mongrels. I'd personally take on a foreign mongrel, and actually there's a distinct lack of real Heinz dogs in the UK shelters.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Of course its the same, why buy a new puppy when there's so many already in shelters? And I don't think peopel are looking to buy new bloodlines, if anything I think it shows there is a good demand for mongrels. I'd personally take on a foreign mongrel, and actually there's a distinct lack of real Heinz dogs in the UK shelters.


I was speaking from a breeders point of view  I very much doubt that Joe Public would import a puppy thats not a rescue, is what I meant


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree OP. I've thought many a time, why bring a dog into this country to a rescue when a stray here could have that place? Logically it doesn't make sense to me, but as others have said, I wouldn't discount one because of it.
If someone wants to adopt a dog direct from another country, I'm fine with that.

Someone said, do you think the same with children, yes I do...


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

pearltheplank said:


> I was speaking from a breeders point of view  I very much doubt that Joe Public would import a puppy thats not a rescue, is what I meant


Unless it's a dog that you actually can't buy over here.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

We have a lot of dogs coming in from Spain , Romania ect I understand they have killing stations there and that people want to save the dogs ..I also know that they are pretty dogs who tug at the heartstrings.

But I do wonder, while there is an overflow system ie; their dogs get sent here so that there is room in shelters and therefore less dogs on deathrow and less strain on local government purse strings do the people there learn anything? 
Or do they just shrug their shoulders and say 'ah some stupid person abroad will sort it out' and leave their dogs to breed/get dumped / get PTS.

Surely a better way to help would be to get involved in spaying and neutering programmes, micro chipping ect making people aware of the responsibilites of dog ownership.
Using the courts to fight local governments who dont obay the rules re; providing shelters ect.

Stop this shirking of responsibilty and passing the buck and make the people of these countries sort out the mess that is of thier own making.

Im not having a go at people who do adopt from abroad .

I just think the better way would be to stop the problem at source instad of trying to mop while the tap is still running (as we say here)


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree with others. A dog is a dog regardless. They all deserve a home and a chance of a better life.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm afraid I'm largely against it, this country has enough dogs in trouble.

Efforts should be made to educate the countries with stray dog problems, to spay/neuter feral dogs and cats, instead. 

And yes, actually I think the same applies to children too, imagine how a child in care feels when potential adoptive parents opt for a baby from abroad


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Maybe I could have worded things better originally... If an individual wishes to rescue from abroad then that's there choice and I don't have a problem with that. I think I meant when rescues are brought over in the hope they will be adopted, then that will take the place of a UK one. 

There isn't a right or wrong solution and nothing is ever black and white. I do agree thought that charity begins at home but as several have said if we keep doing this then the countries who do treat their rescues like they do, will never improve


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

A life is a life to me. In NI we routinely ship a lot of poundies/rescues over to the mainland where they stand a good chance of rehoming. Not every area is overflowing and some breeds are easier to home in certain areas than others. From NI you will get a lot of collies/terriers/labs and heinz 57 mixes and really very few staffies (which I understand populate a lot of rescues/pounds in England). 

As compared with the UK, in absolute terms, dogs in Spain don't have a lot of luck. I have seen many dead and discarded corpses. It isn't an unusual sight. Larger dogs in particular struggle because traditionally they are seen less as pets than the smaller breeds. And they fit less well with apartment living. As the economic crisis is so bad over there a lot of ex-pats are returning to the UK and not bringing their dogs with them so the situation is pretty dire. If a home can be found for these dogs versus ending up as waste on the verges of the N332, then I am all for it.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> If a home can be found for these dogs versus ending up as waste on the verges of the N332, then I am all for it.


Even if that means 'Freddie' in the pound dies? OK it would be a nicer death but it's still a death.....


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I, personally, am a firm believer in ''looking after our own''.

I can't quite get my head around dogs being brought over from abroad when the pounds and shelters are already full of British dogs, with hundreds of dogs being put to sleep everyday because homes aren't available. Similarly, I can't understand it when people adopt dogs from rescues abroad, when there are plenty available here. 

If the UK had a fantastic rescue situation - very little dogs needing homes, and plenty of space in shelters - then fair enough, it would be great to help dogs from abroad but I'm not a fan of doing so when there are so many dogs being killed here everyday simply through lack of homes (and possibly lack of rescue space that has been filled with dogs from abroad). 

Have to say, I also feel the same way about ploughing millions of pounds into foreign aid when there are thousands of British people living in poverty or who are homeless too. 

But that's just me.


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## Murphy101 (Nov 26, 2012)

Reading this made wonder if there are any overseas dog charity's. After a quick google I cant find any dog specific charities abroad (it was a quick google,I may be wrong) I found that Dogs Trust assist overseas animal welfare charities by training their staff in best practice but thats it.

Personally I think there is enough of a wide variety of rescue breeds in the uk to negate having to look abroad. In no way am I saying that overseas dogs don't deserve a good home and I think It's also a cultural issue, again it's the humans that need help and training.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Maybe I shouldn't answer this since I don't live in the UK, but we have a similar situation in Sweden. I don't think it's a good thing to get rescue dogs from other countries, for several reasons. One reason is that I don't believe that it'll improve the situation for the dogs. For one individual dog, yes, but not for the rest of the dogs. As long as they can trick people from other countries to buy them, they are rid of the problem and can even make money off it, so there's no need to work to improve the dog's situation in the country. 

I also think that you should take care of the dogs that needs a home in your own country. In Sweden we don't have very many rescue dogs, but I know that you do in the UK. It's not a kinder gesture to take care of a dog from Spain, Rumania or wherever, even if people that does seem to think so. 

There's also a health aspect, as these dogs may have diseases and worms that doesn't exist in the country they come to. At least in Sweden we are free of many diseases that they have in other countries (and I believe that's true for the UK, as well) because we have had rules for quaratine to bring dogs in the country. In recent years there has been an increase in diseases that have been "extinct". Not only because of rescue dogs coming into the coutry of course, but partly. 

Another reason that I don't think it's good is for the dogs sake. It can be very scary to be brought from the street into a shelter and then shipped off to another country. I have met a few dogs from Spain and Rumania and all of them have been very nervous and scared (even though they've been here for years). 

A few years ago I saw a documentary about organisations exporting "rescue" dogs from Spain and that was a real puppy mill. They let the dog's run together and mate as they liked, because there was no problems getting rid of puppies and they could also make more money off puppies. They gave away documents that said that the dogs were spayed/neutered and checked by a vet, but they weren't. i know that it has happened on several occasions that dogs have come to Sweden and have given birth to a litter a few weeks after their arrival, even though their documents said that they were spayed.

Of course there are more serious organisations, but it's important to know that not all of them are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. I have had a rescue dog from another country myself, even if I wasn't the one to bring him to Sweden. He was from Ireland, which luckily means that he wont have brought any diseases with him as the health situation is the same in Sweden and Ireland. The organisation that brought him to Sweden is one of the most well known, but doesn't seem to have much interest in the dogs once they have made their money off them (however, when my Lyle needed a new home they were interested to get him back, for free so that the could sell him again). My dog had a lot of issues (which I believe that most rescue dogs from that kind of background has), but they were willing to sell him to just anybody without making sure it was a person that could handle his issues (which is the reason why he was rehomed to me).

In my opinion, if you want to help the dogs in another country, go there and work in a shelter as a volounteer. Help the dogs and help make their situation better in the country they're in.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> A life is a life to me. In NI we routinely ship a lot of poundies/rescues over to the mainland where they stand a good chance of rehoming. Not every area is overflowing and some breeds are easier to home in certain areas than others. From NI you will get a lot of collies/terriers/labs and heinz 57 mixes and really very few staffies (which I understand populate a lot of rescues/pounds in England).
> 
> As compared with the UK, in absolute terms, dogs in Spain don't have a lot of luck. I have seen many dead and discarded corpses. It isn't an unusual sight. Larger dogs in particular struggle because traditionally they are seen less as pets than the smaller breeds. And they fit less well with apartment living. As the economic crisis is so bad over there a lot of ex-pats are returning to the UK and not bringing their dogs with them so the situation is pretty dire. If a home can be found for these dogs versus ending up as waste on the verges of the N332, then I am all for it.


this post said what I think and I can`t be ar*ed to post myself because this thread comes up so often so...

wot she said.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

pearltheplank said:


> Even if that means 'Freddie' in the pound dies? OK it would be a nicer death but it's still a death.....


Until there are fewer dogs of the over represented types (pounds aren't exactly heaving with maltese terriers and irish setters for instance...) relative to the homes that actually want them, some dogs are going to have to be destroyed.

That is more the issue IMO- for instance there are hundreds of unwanted staffy's looking for homes out there but you can't make people want to take them on if what they are after is a border collie- and if there is a homeless collie a hop skip and a jump across the water facing destruction, that they _do_ want, it makes more sense to me to get that collie to a new home than be destroyed because of it's misfortune in location. As it is, NI in particular kills far more per head of population than any other region of the UK, for shame.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

A lot of rescue dogs need specific homes with specific needs & requirements, homes cannot be 'created' for these dogs. 
If an 'out of uk' rescue dog can find its forever home here I think it's a good thing. We currently sponsor 2 dogs at the Dogs Trust & regularly donate to a 1 other uk based rescue & one Romanian rescue. 

No dog is worth homing more than another where ever they may reside.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

It's a difficult one.

On the one hand it seems like we have more than enough dogs needing homes in the UK and that bringing dogs in from abroad just means that more dogs already here will have to be PTS.

I don't think it's really that simple though.

It can be difficult to rehome a dog from a rescue in the UK due to blanket rehoming policies. We often hear of people denied dogs because of having un-neutered existing dogs, not having a garden, living in a flat, etc. There are also the issues of trends within breeds in rescues. Around here it's almost universally staffies, shar peis, mastiffs, huskies and their crosses. None of these are breeds that are suitable for us and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are the same. However something like a podenco would suit us.

I'm not saying we would get a rescue from abroad but it's understandable why people do it. It's similar to the argument asking why people buy puppies when there are so many dogs in rescue. We always advocate people do their research well before getting a dog precisely because all breeds are not the same. This doesn't change when the dog is a rescue and it doesn't necessarily follow that if someone doesn't buy a puppy they will rescue instead. Had we not bought Fitz or Wybie we would not have rescued instead, we had very specific requirements which we felt could only be met by buying a puppy from a good breeder. If someone wants to rescue but has specific requirements it may be that the best fit for them will be a dog from abroad. In such situations I don't think many would argue that it would be better to get no dog at all then bring in a foreign rescue.

It is a situation that is open to exploitation though. A few years ago it became popular for people to 'rescue' French meat horses by buying them for more than they were worth as meat. It didn't take long for farmers to catch on and some started breeding more and more horses to sell to the people from the UK who were convinced they were saving them from the abattoir. There is potential for a similar situation to develop surrounding the rescue of dogs from abroad. There's also the issue that has already been raised, that taking on the dogs and shipping them out of their country of origin doesn't encourage attempts to solve the problem at it's source.

It's a very tough problem to unravel and I don't think it's a simple as being either right or wrong.

Rescue should be about getting the right dogs into the right homes for the right reasons but care needs to be taken that doing so is bringing the greatest benefit to the dogs and the owners, and that the rescuing is being done in a sensible way which isn't fuelling poor situations for other dogs.


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

I spoke with a shelter who used to get a lot of dogs from battersea but now they are only offering staffies, a breed which requires quite sturdy and separate kenneling systems which this shelter hasn't got and which isn't prepared to do. Therefore in addition to taking local dogs needing homes they are also getting dogs from Ireland.

My own Tottie came from there... she was abandoned by travellers on the verge, nearly dead from starvation. Thankfully someone went to check if anything or anyone had been left, or she'd have died. She went through rescue but it's so chaotic there and few people will rehome dogs that she'd have been pts anyway. Instead she came over to UK and found a home here.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

I would have no problems getting a dog from abroad as a rescue, if that dog suited me and I couldn't find what I was after closer to home.
If the perfect dog was in the UK, I'd go for that. 
If it was in spain, I'd go for that instead, rather than get a dog that wasn't really what I wanted just because it was in my country.

I also think there are some things worse than death. 
As a rescuer, I often feel this way. I think its actually less upsetting for an animal to be put to sleep calmly by injection in a vets office than to spend years and years living in pain, squalor, fear and neglect. 
I always said that if someone presented me with two rats and I could only rescue one, and one was a happy rat in a reasonably good home but who was due to be euthanised at the vets the next day, and the other was a rat who wasn't in any danger of being pts but was living in pain, fear, and neglect, I'd rescue the latter.
Death isn't the worst thing that can happen to an animal, to me.

So if a dog in a shelter is given a pts injection because I took a dog from abroad who was destined to live more years on the streets in pain, being shot at, riddled with disease, I wouldn't feel any guilt.
They're both horrible situations, but in my mind, a quiet, peaceful, pain free death is preferable to a long, drawn out, painful and abusive life.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm totally with SixStar on all points, even foreign aid but thats another thread.

No, i'm not a big fan of shipping dogs from other European countries when we have such a crisis ourselves, it doesnt seem to make sense to me. I could be called a hypocrite because I have a dog from NI but since NI is part of the UK then I still see those dogs as part of 'our' problem.

The emphasis should be on educating the people who live in those countries and running neutering programs because at the end of the day I dont see the dogs being shipped over here as an answer to the root problem.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


I'm afraid I have to agree with you. There is a small shelter in my town who regularly brings dogs from Ireland.



PoisonGirl said:


> Do you feel the same way about people adopting foreign children instead of ones in this country?
> 
> A heck of a lot of the shelters in other countries are much, much worse than the bad ones over here.


I don't think you can compare it with adopting a foreign baby because for some British parents it is the only way they are going to be allowed to adopt. Our SS are so damned fussy and ridiculous in some cases, even putting an age limit on becoming parents, they have to adopt from abroad.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I have a rescue dog from Romania, she was born over here after her mum was rescued as a stray. I would also, horror of horrors, adopt more rescue dogs from Romania, while also taking in a dog or two from the UK.

Why?

Because in Romania, dogs are treated the way many people over here treat wild rats- like filthy vermin. If you've seen the state of the public shelters compared to any rescues over here you would see just how bad it is- I'm talking wall to wall **** & emaciated dogs who have completely shut down. It's the norm over there for strays to be shot, poisoned, trapped, beaten & run over. One day I hope to be in a position to go over there & help. 

Ok I haven't made the world of difference to the rescue situation as a whole, but my dog will never know the cold, hunger, fear & cruelty that her poor mum did.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


I understand what you're saying completely, it's a fair point and an open debate.

But I think the conditions in shelters/on the streets are often so much worse than here, beyond comprehension until you actually look at it, and as a dog lover, if you had been there and were in the situation where you could help, it would be hard not to do something. I've had a few foster dogs from Romania, when my local dog rescue was helping out a charity that works there which was set up by a few people who felt it was their "calling" and they couldn't have seen what they saw and do nothing - and that's their choice.

This argument is endless though, some people say why help dogs when children are dying? Why be a vegetarian when other people are still going to eat meat - does one person make any more difference etc etc, and really at the end of the day, I think everyone is different, everyone has different views and that's fine - some people see things which they don't feel they can ignore, it doesn't mean it's more important, or that there aren't other significant issues which need addressing, it's down to conscience, experiences and personal choice - everyone needs to do what they think is right.

Scroll down to "Our Philosophy" to see what one charity says to justify their work http://www.loveunderdogs.org/about-us/about-loveunderdogs/

Naomi


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

Please, those people on here that are commenting about taking strays from other countries. educate yourselves to the horrors of what happens abroad, it is far far worse than here, they are in a world of pain. The Governments in these countries don't care and the dogs are desperate, they are left seriously injured to slowly rot and die and freeze to death etc etc not to mention the Meat trade in Korea/China/Thailand etc etc.

I have 2 dogs from breeders here and 2 Romanians and I can honestly say I will never get a 'bred' dog again now my eyes have been opened to the cruelty and hardship elsewhere.

And yes, we do have a problem here, I know that but I choose to help where the help is needed most, our dogs don't starve to death.

Sorry if I sound stressed, I am passionate about this :001_wub:


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## xMaloreyx (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't believe it matters where your rescue dog (or any other animal at that) comes from, as long as you are saving an animal.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

Two of my friends have just adopted dogs from abroad. 

One from Romania, the other from Thailand. 

In Thailand strays are poisoned all the time, my friend was doing voluntary work over there, they nurse the dogs back to health, then let them go again, back onto the streets. This particular dog had been poisoned twice. She ended up fetching him home  A very expensive holiday souvenir! It cost her hundreds. 

An animal is an animal, no matter where it's from, if they are providing a better life for those dogs isn't that a good thing?


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## Hannahmourneevans (Dec 16, 2012)

xMaloreyx said:


> I don't believe it matters where your rescue dog (or any other animal at that) comes from, as long as you are saving an animal.


Very well put x


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

In Thailand they actually beat them and skin them alive to eat, the adrenaline makes the meat more tender apparently


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

chez33 said:


> In Thailand they actually beat them and skin them alive to eat, the adrenaline makes the meat more tender apparently


I have heard this too. I grew up in the Middle East, where dogs are considered 'unclean' by many, there was cruelty everywhere


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Thailand isn't *that* bad re: dogmeat, at least compared to some countries anyway. It certainly wouldn't be the norm to' beat and eat' like it is in some places. My sister lived/worked there last year in a rural area near the Burmese border- generally the dogs were not particularly respected (feared a little because it is rabies country) and there was deliberate cruelty but it wasn't as outright terrible as some places. The family she stayed with had pet dogs and doted on their kitten as well.


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

jenniferx said:


> Thailand isn't *that* bad re: dogmeat, at least compared to some countries anyway. It certainly wouldn't be the norm to' beat and eat' like it is in some places. My sister lived/worked there last year in a rural area near the Burmese border- generally the dogs were not particularly respected (feared a little because it is rabies country) and there was deliberate cruelty but it wasn't as outright terrible as some places. The family she stayed with had pet dogs and doted on their kitten as well.


China and Korea are probably the worst, but still, it's all bad.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

We cannot solve the worlds problems and for every foreign dog which gets a safe haven in the UK, there are thousands more who suffer a terrible fate, only the government and people of those countries can do anything about the root problem, with voluntary help, petitions etc from those outside of the country.

I am very aware of what happens to dogs in Thailand, Romania, Bulgaria etc but those countries must take responsibility for themselves without the UK mopping up every time. I wonder how many UK dogs are shipped elsewhere? Who is mopping up our mess?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Vicki said:


> Maybe I shouldn't answer this since I don't live in the UK, but we have a similar situation in Sweden. I don't think it's a good thing to get rescue dogs from other countries.


I live in Germany and have 1 rescue dog, blind from within Germany and 2 from Hungary and I believe it's not a bad thing to rescue from abroad.

One thing you have to consider is that most people nowadays, when looking at rescues, do not go to the local rescue but look on the internet. What's the difference if a dog comes from 10 miles away or 100? 100 or 1000? Where is the limit?

Most of the arguments about denying a home to another is exactly the same no matter where it comes from. Taking a dog from the same country 100 miles away may mean a dog only 10miles away may be killed.

The argument of encouraging people to "breed" dogs or make money is also the same locally. It's once again merely a matter of distance.



> There's also a health aspect, as these dogs may have diseases and worms that doesn't exist in the country they come to.


This is the only problem I can see and I know people are aware of it. Within the EU you generally have the pet passport with rabies details, normally come with vaccination documents and most rescues I've seen from places in southern Europe, like Spain, also have an additional check for another disease common there (can't remember what it is off hand) over and above the normal requirements for travel. This is more than a holiday maker would do when traveling. When a dog first arrives, the first thing any responsible owner would do in my mind to to get them health checked mentioning where they come from so appropriate checks could be carried out and action taken if necessary.

It's always going to be the case of the reliability of rescue organisation involved is important. Research is necessary.



Leanne77 said:


> I wonder how many UK dogs are shipped elsewhere? Who is mopping up our mess?


Why don't you export rescues to mainland Europe? I know staffies are not allowed to be imported into Germany but sure other rescue places for other dogs could be found.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Goblin said:


> I live in Germany and have 1 rescue dog, blind from within Germany and 2 from Hungary and I believe it's not a bad thing to rescue from abroad.
> 
> One thing you have to consider is that most people nowadays, when looking at rescues, do not go to the local rescue but look on the internet. What's the difference if a dog comes from 10 miles away or 100? 100 or 1000? Where is the limit?
> 
> ...


That is pretty much how I see it too. I have helped transport dogs from one end of the country to the other, the place where they have ended up is not the place they orginally from so when someone rehomes that dog they are not getting a local one but one from many miles away. I wonder how the other local rescues feel about that?

Eveytime somebody makes a choice about a dog to rehome another dog misses out. When people walk up and down rows of kennels they can normally only take one or maybe two, the ones not choosen just have to wait until it is their time it matters not to them that the dog getting its forever home has come from down the road, another county or indeed another country.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

dorrit said:


> We have a lot of dogs coming in from Spain , Romania ect I understand they have killing stations there and that people want to save the dogs ..I also know that they are pretty dogs who tug at the heartstrings.
> 
> But I do wonder, while there is an overflow system ie; their dogs get sent here so that there is room in shelters and therefore less dogs on deathrow and less strain on local government purse strings do the people there learn anything?
> Or do they just shrug their shoulders and say 'ah some stupid person abroad will sort it out' and leave their dogs to breed/get dumped / get PTS.
> ...


Totally agree


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> Please, those people on here that are commenting about taking strays from other countries. educate yourselves to the horrors of what happens abroad, it is far far worse than here, they are in a world of pain. The Governments in these countries don't care and the dogs are desperate, they are left seriously injured to slowly rot and die and freeze to death etc etc not to mention the Meat trade in Korea/China/Thailand etc etc.
> 
> I have 2 dogs from breeders here and 2 Romanians and I can honestly say I will never get a 'bred' dog again now my eyes have been opened to the cruelty and hardship elsewhere.
> 
> ...


How can you say dogs here don't starve to death ? do you think its ok then for a dog to be brought in from abroad and given a rescue space when theres dogs in pounds to be PTS here ? i've seen what goes on i foster dogs for rescues, you have no idea what circumstances dogs in this country are in. Go on Strayaid and have a look on there !


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

jenniferx said:


> A life is a life to me. In NI we routinely ship a lot of poundies/rescues over to the mainland where they stand a good chance of rehoming. Not every area is overflowing and some breeds are easier to home in certain areas than others. From NI you will get a lot of collies/terriers/labs and heinz 57 mixes and really very few staffies (which I understand populate a lot of rescues/pounds in England).
> 
> As compared with the UK, in absolute terms, dogs in Spain don't have a lot of luck. I have seen many dead and discarded corpses. It isn't an unusual sight. Larger dogs in particular struggle because traditionally they are seen less as pets than the smaller breeds. And they fit less well with apartment living. As the economic crisis is so bad over there a lot of ex-pats are returning to the UK and not bringing their dogs with them so the situation is pretty dire. If a home can be found for these dogs versus ending up as waste on the verges of the N332, then I am all for it.


Do NI import dogs from abroad ? or do they import them and then ship them to the mainland here


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## Dizzy Grace (May 2, 2012)

I don't object or feel particularly strongly about adopting dogs from abroad one way or another, but I do wonder if the cost and time that goes into moving that one dog could be put to better use. Bulgaria and so on have horrendous records, but surely there are better ways of solving the problem than moving the odd dog into other countries?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> How can you say dogs here don't starve to death ? do you think its ok then for a dog to be brought in from abroad and given a rescue space when theres dogs in pounds to be PTS here ? i've seen what goes on i foster dogs for rescues, you have no idea what circumstances dogs in this country are in. Go on Strayaid and have a look on there !


How can you be a dog lover if you can discriminate. Sure a dog getting a home is all that matters.

Should the kids in Africa starve too? Afterall, there is plenty of cruelty in this country. Should we stop all aid to children in Africa?


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> A lot of rescue dogs need specific homes with specific needs & requirements, homes cannot be 'created' for these dogs.
> If an 'out of uk' rescue dog can find its forever home here I think it's a good thing. We currently sponsor 2 dogs at the Dogs Trust & regularly donate to a 1 other uk based rescue & one Romanian rescue.
> 
> No dog is worth homing more than another where ever they may reside.


The vast majority of Dogs Trust dogs are from Ireland anyway


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Nobody would rehome to us because of our situation and I wouldn't buy a puppy so I found Max and Lilly.

I have also rescued from this country.

The dogs in countries like Greece and Romania have it a lot harder than UK rescue dogs. I have never regretted helping them, even though they are not easy!

This is Max, my rescue dog from Greece..










and this is Lilly my little princess, also my rescue dog from Greece..


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


I agree and have posted on this before. I know it's not fair to discriminate against dogs and in some countries there is such great suffering but we have so many here destroyed every day that to me this just adds more to our own dogs destruction.

I don't know how this started off and think maybe dogs in other countries should stay there, if homes aren't found then the same fate as what happens to ours - cruel as it sounds it's also cruel on our own rescues, surely!


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> How can you be a dog lover if you can discriminate. Sure a dog getting a home is all that matters.
> 
> Should the kids in Africa starve too? Afterall, there is plenty of cruelty in this country. Should we stop all aid to children in Africa?


So you think its ok the that a dog here in PTS pound situation dies so that a dog from abroad can live ? yep makes sense 

Again if you want to make the comparison between Africa and dogs.....there are too many people in Africa they keep producing children they can't feed, they need to be educated, same as people need to be educated about breeding too many dogs


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Malmum said:


> - cruel as it sounds it's also cruel on our own rescues, surely!


Not if rescues here won't rehome to people here.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Ang2 said:


> How can you be a dog lover if you can discriminate. Sure a dog getting a home is all that matters.
> 
> Should the kids in Africa starve too? Afterall, there is plenty of cruelty in this country. Should we stop all aid to children in Africa?


But we are not killing kids out here in order to feed African kids are we? 

The point is as lovely as dogs from abroad may be, there are many here who will stand even less of a chance of a home if people take in from overseas. They can also have behavioural problems as Goodvics have had. If you cannot foster from here then of course go elsewhere but if you want to foster (not for me) why would you go abroad when we have so many here that need homing?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I don't know how this started off and think maybe dogs in other countries should stay there, if homes aren't found then the same fate as what happens to ours - cruel as it sounds it's also cruel on our own rescues, surely!


So would you rescue only from your local shelter, ignoring any further away?


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry but am about to sign off for the night). I used to be all for looking after our own first until a friend recently adopted a Romanian rescue: she told me that there, dogs are routinely rounded up (even owned ones because they are paid according to numbers) and are destroyed by being thrown onto fires *alive*. It kinda changed my opinions whatever the rights and wrongs of the argument.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So you think its ok the that a dog here in PTS pound situation dies so that a dog from abroad can live ? yep makes sense
> 
> Again if you want to make the comparison between Africa and dogs.....there are too many people in Africa they keep producing children they can't feed, they need to be educated, same as people need to be educated about breeding too many dogs


I would happily euthanise 10 uk rescues dogs to save a couple of foreign rescue dogs from suffering from cruelty and abuse, and I work in rescue.

A peaceful death is preferable to a dog being starved/beaten/cruelty treated.

Death is not the worst thing that can happen..


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

No I personally wouldn't rescue, I'd be too scared of bad behavioural/fear/SA problems that I would HAVE to deal with and also health problems from not knowing the dogs background, possibly at all.

If I'm going to have a dog live with me for 12+ years I want to know it's background - or at least some of it. rescuing as I've seen many times on here can be a nightmare. Of course so can any dog but that's just my own opinion. Perhaps a KC Mal who had some history and re homing through Mal rescue but not just any rescue, too scared i'd get trouble!


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So you think its ok the that a dog here in PTS pound situation dies so that a dog from abroad can live ? yep makes sense
> 
> Again if you want to make the comparison between Africa and dogs.....there are too many people in Africa they keep producing children they can't feed, they need to be educated, same as people need to be educated about breeding too many dogs


You can't "create" the right homes for every dog in any rescue centre!?! Their are only so many people looking/ wanting have the time & in the right situation to home 'the right dog for them'.
If you want a rescue dog & cant find the right dog to suit your family here in the uk why not go else where & help?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Out of interest how do the people who are against rescuing abroad justify buying a puppy or rescuing?

Surely if you cared that much to voice an opinion then you would be rescuing
??


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> I would happily euthanise 10 uk rescues dogs to save a couple of foreign rescue dogs from suffering from cruelty and abuse, and I work in rescue.
> 
> A peaceful death is preferable to a dog being starved/beaten/cruelty treated.
> 
> Death is not the worst thing that can happen..


Point taken. I have seen on CM what they do in Mexico to stray dogs - it ain't nice! Some rescue dogs here have been beaten/abused too though haven't they?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Malmum said:


> Point taken. I have seen on CM what they do in Mexico to stray dogs - it ain't nice! Some rescue dogs here have been beaten/abused too though haven't they?


Yes but their end is peaceful...


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Out of interest how do the people who are against rescuing abroad justify buying a puppy or rescuing?
> 
> Surely if you cared that much to voice an opinion then you would be rescuing
> ??


I have a political opinion too but doesn't mean because I'm not a Politician I can't say what I think - does it? It's a thread asking for opinions not a quiz as to why you don't rescue! 

Anyway I'm off to write a book! Byeee!!!


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I would happily euthanise 10 uk rescues dogs to save a couple of foreign rescue dogs from suffering from cruelty and abuse, and I work in rescue.
> 
> A peaceful death is preferable to a dog being starved/beaten/cruelty treated.
> 
> Death is not the worst thing that can happen..


Sorry doesn't make sense, why not put down the foreign dog instead then ? i'm talking about dogs that on death row without rescue spaces in the UK that are PTS so that imported dogs have the rescue space

If death is not the worst thing that can happen then whats the problem ? don't see your point at all !

I work in rescue as well and i can tell you some of the things i've seen are horrific so sorry to say foreign dogs are worse off is rubbish


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Out of interest how do the people who are against rescuing abroad justify buying a puppy or rescuing?
> 
> Surely if you cared that much to voice an opinion then you would be rescuing
> ??


I'm not against rescuing from abroad per se. If someone wants to adopt a rescue from overseas, that's their choice. What I don't agree with is, lots of overseas dogs being brought here en masse and then looking for homes.

I work in rescue myself and have had both bought puppies and taken on rescues


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Sorry doesn't make sense, why not put down the foreign dog instead then ? i'm talking about dogs that on death row without rescue spaces in the UK that are PTS so that imported dogs have the rescue space
> 
> If death is not the worst thing that can happen then whats the problem ? don't see your point at all


Because these dogs are not just "put down". They are strung up, they are thrown in fires, they are skinned alive, they are beaten to death.

If I could alleviate their suffering by euthanising UK rescue dogs then I would ..


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

pearltheplank said:


> I'm not against rescuing from abroad per se. If someone wants to adopt a rescue from overseas, that's their choice. What I don't agree with is, lots of overseas dogs being brought here en masse and then looking for homes.
> 
> I work in rescue myself and have had both bought puppies and taken on rescues


I would agree that in the first instance other things be done with the money it costs to transport them. However I couldn't rescue via uk rescues so I choose this option


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Because these dogs are not just "put down". They are strung up, they are thrown in fires, they are skinned alive, they are beaten to death.
> 
> If I could alleviate their suffering by euthanising UK rescue dogs then I would ..


Theres plenty of dogs in this country that suffer the same fate.. still can't see your point !!

You said deaths not the worst thing so why the issue ? I find it contradicting that you would put down death row dogs here for dogs abroad. what about the dogs here then that have been treated similarly ?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Theres plenty of dogs in this country that suffer the same fate.. still can't see your point !!
> 
> You said deaths not the worst thing so why the issue ?


I've already answered


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

If you agree with euthanising our homeless dogs peacefully then why not get an organisation together to go and care for the welfare of these foreign dogs....including putting them to sleep if needs be. Also educating these people on animal cruelty might be a way forward.

I imagine for every 1 dog brought over to be given a home.....there are a number left there to suffer in awful circumstances


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I've already answered


So it doesnt matter then about dogs that are treated similarly here, thats ok put them down ? why the preference ?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

chichi said:


> If you agree with euthanising our homeless dogs peacefully then why not get an organisation together to go and care for the welfare of these foreign dogs....including putting them to sleep if needs be. Also educating these people on animal cruelty might be a way forward.
> 
> I imagine for every 1 dog brought over to be given a home.....there are a number left there to suffer in awful circumstances


Because I have a full time job to pay the bills, 3 rescue dogs to look after and a huge amount of my free time helping promote/home staffies.

But if I get a chance one day then I may take you up on it


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Because I have a full time job to pay the bills, 3 rescue dogs to look after and a huge amount of my free time helping promote/home staffies.
> 
> But if I get a chance one day then I may take you up on it


Yeah right bla bla bla .....

You haven't answered my previous question


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So it doesnt matter then about dogs that are treated similarly here, thats ok put them down ? why the preference ?


I think perhaps you are misunderstanding me

If I could choose to humanly euthanise a uk rescue or a foreign rescue then it would of course be the foreign rescue.

But to save the life of a foreign rescue from neglect or cruelty then I would happily euthanise several Uk rescues because one dog suffering is one too many


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So it doesnt matter then about dogs that are treated similarly here, thats ok put them down ? why the preference ?


I've not heard many stories of local dog wardens in the uk collecting up dogs to cull in the vile mannners mentioned in this thread. For me, humane euthanasia - that is the preference.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> Because I have a full time job to pay the bills, 3 rescue dogs to look after and a huge amount of my free time helping promote/home staffies.
> 
> But if I get a chance one day then I may take you up on it


I didnt mean you personally. I meant those with your views....those who are arranging/funding bringing the foreign dogs over.

Apologies......doing two things at once. Post wasnt clear.....oooops


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

I've mostly kept out of this discussion as I can feel myself getting fired up, never a good thing. I have a feeling a lot of you are dog lovers and not animal lovers, so will never understand.

The dogs are not bought over en masse, they are fostered/adopted by wonderful people that see pictures of them crippled, bleeding, abandoned, beaten and terrified....and yes, it happens here but absolutely nowhere near on the same scale. Maybe if some of you actually took the time to do a bit of research and became fully aware of the situation in Europe you'd be less critical. If you still feel the same way after knowing the facts then I have NOTHING more to say.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I think perhaps you are misunderstanding me
> 
> If I could choose to humanly euthanise a uk rescue or a foreign rescue then it would of course be the foreign rescue.
> 
> But to save the life of a foreign rescue from neglect or cruelty then I would happily euthanise several Uk rescues because one dog suffering is one too many


No ive not misunderstood, it still doesn't make sense ... what if there is a dog here and a dog abroad in the same circumstances then ?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So it doesnt matter then about dogs that are treated similarly here, thats ok put them down ? why the preference ?


I can't see where there's a 'preference'- in the UK it's a legal requirement to put an animal to sleep in a certain way, to the best of our knowledge it is the kindest way. Especially when compared to the barbaric methods used every day by other countries which don't have the same welfare laws in place as we do.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Bellaboo1 said:


> No ive not misunderstood, it still doesn't make sense ... what if there is a dog here and a dog abroad in the same circumstances then ?


We have laws in place to put them to sleep, other countries choose skinning, beating, poisoning, torturing, with no threat of legal action.

While I still think the UK laws are lacking, they are still miles better than many other countries when it comes to animal welfare


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Really sorry, I haven't read all the way through and I'm sure someone will have mentioned it but can I ask what sort of scale it's on? I'd never really even thought about it so I'm not sure where I stand yet.

Has it increased recently?


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> No ive not misunderstood, it still doesn't make sense ... what if there is a dog here and a dog abroad in the same circumstances then ?


I don't quite get your point..

Dogs abroad get treated abhorrently. Yes you get abuse cases over here but no where near the scale.

Where are you going with your constant posts?


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> I've mostly kept out of this discussion as I can feel myself getting fired up, never a good thing. I have a feeling a lot of you are dog lovers and not animal lovers, so will never understand.
> 
> The dogs are not bought over en masse, they are fostered/adopted by wonderful people that see pictures of them crippled, bleeding, abandoned, beaten and terrified....and yes, it happens here but absolutely nowhere near on the same scale. Maybe if some of you actually took the time to do a bit of research and became fully aware of the situation in Europe you'd be less critical. If you still feel the same way after knowing the facts then I have NOTHING more to say.


Maybe you should do some more reseach yourself and not be so damn patronising .......no sorry i don't agree with UK dogs on death row being PTS sleep in order for foreign dogs to be brought here en masse, many of those dogs have been treated dreadfully as well. Glad you have NOTHING more to say though


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Flamingoes said:


> Really sorry, I haven't read all the way through and I'm sure someone will have mentioned it but can I ask what sort of scale it's on? I'd never really even thought about it so I'm not sure where I stand yet.
> 
> Has it increased recently?


I think we are just more aware

Places in the Far East have eaten dog meat and they have Always been killed horribly.

Countries like Romania, Turkey and Greece have got horrendous animal right records


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I don't quite get your point..
> 
> Dogs abroad get treated abhorrently. Yes you get abuse cases over here but no where near the scale.
> 
> Where are you going with your constant posts?


I want you to answer the question. You are talking rubbish and you can't back it up, dogs here get treated abhorrently as well, still cant see your logic putting one down but not the other


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

chez33 said:


> I've mostly kept out of this discussion as I can feel myself getting fired up, never a good thing. I have a feeling a lot of you are dog lovers and not animal lovers, so will never understand.
> 
> The dogs are not bought over en masse, they are fostered/adopted by wonderful people that see pictures of them crippled, bleeding, abandoned, beaten and terrified....and yes, it happens here but absolutely nowhere near on the same scale. Maybe if some of you actually took the time to do a bit of research and became fully aware of the situation in Europe you'd be less critical. If you still feel the same way after knowing the facts then I have NOTHING more to say.


But whilst funding bringing 1 dog over.....you are leaving a mass of suffering dogs in the sad circumstances. I would have thought it far fairer to use the funds being used to bring a few dogs over....spent instead on sending a vet team over there to educate people and euthanise these poor dogs to end their suffering.

I am not against helping these poor dogs. I would just rather see an effective way implemented to help masses of the dogs rather than a lucky few.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> I want you to answer the question. You are talking rubbish and you can't back it up, dogs here get treated abhorrently as well, still cant see your logic putting one down but not the other


Why the animosity?

I have explained myself on several posts so I'm not going to repeat it again

Go and have a glass of wine and relax


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chichi said:


> But whilst funding bringing 1 dog over.....you are leaving a mass of suffering dogs in the sad circumstances. I would have thought it far fairer to use the funds being used to bring a few dogs over....spent instead on sending a vet team over there to educate people and euthanise these poor dogs to end their suffering.
> 
> I am not against helping these poor dogs. I would just rather see an effective way implemented to help masses of the dogs rather than a lucky few.


You said it so much better than me, education and help in their own countries is whats needed in the first place, not just shipping the dogs to other countries for them to deal with


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Really sorry, I haven't read all the way through and I'm sure someone will have mentioned it but can I ask what sort of scale it's on? I'd never really even thought about it so I'm not sure where I stand yet.
> 
> Has it increased recently?


Hundreds of thousands.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Maybe you should do some more reseach yourself and not be so damn patronising .......no sorry i don't agree with UK dogs on death row being PTS sleep in order for foreign dogs to be brought here *en masse*, many of those dogs have been treated dreadfully as well. Glad you have NOTHING more to say though


I doubt they are brought here en-masse, since it costs £200+ to do so (from Romania at least). But I'd be interested in the overall figures if anyone has got them? This is an emotive subject but useful debate - Bellaboo: I don't think anyone is trying to be patronising.


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

chichi said:


> But whilst funding bringing 1 dog over.....you are leaving a mass of suffering dogs in the sad circumstances. I would have thought it far fairer to use the funds being used to bring a few dogs over....spent instead on sending a vet team over there to educate people and euthanise these poor dogs to end their suffering.
> 
> I am not against helping these poor dogs. I would just rather see an effective way implemented to help masses of the dogs rather than a lucky few.


I agree with you.

But rescues are just giving some of the dogs a chance at a decent life.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Why the animosity?
> 
> I have explained myself on several posts so I'm not going to repeat it again
> 
> Go and have a glass of wine and relax


No animosity lol just wanted an answer to the question  i'd rather have a whiskey !!


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Okay so having read a bit...

To my mind one of the many beautiful qualities animals posses is a complete lack of anything even touching on political things or morality.

They don't care or know what country they're in, they just want to be helped and loved. It doesn't sit well with me that we put boundaries on it. Surely it's not a case of what country they come from? 

The problem is world wide, why would we not help them world wide?


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Kiwi said:


> I doubt they are brought here en-masse, since it costs £200+ to do so (from Romania at least). But I'd be interested in the overall figures if anyone has got them? This is an emotive subject but useful debate - Bellaboo: I don't think anyone is trying to be patronising.


Not sure abour Romania etc but i know there are thousands brought here from Ireland.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Okay so having read a bit...
> 
> To my mind one of the many beautiful qualities animals posses is a complete lack of anything even touching on political things or morality.
> 
> ...


No problem helping, it just doesnt make sense to me that we would be killing dogs here or denying rescue places for dogs to be brought here from abroad


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Flamingoes said:


> Really sorry, I haven't read all the way through and I'm sure someone will have mentioned it but can I ask what sort of scale it's on? I'd never really even thought about it so I'm not sure where I stand yet.
> 
> Has it increased recently?


I can only speak from what I've learned having adopted my Romanian girl- in the late 80s the dictator Ceaucescu moved thousands upon thousands of rural families into housing blocks, forcing them to leave their pets behind. These dogs & cats then ran wild for decades, breeding & just doing their best to survive (as all species do), despite constant violent persecution by the very species that put them in that situation in the first place. Many end up in hellish, filthy stinking public shelters.

As of January 2012 it has been easier to import dogs into the UK due to changes in the law, so many rescues have been taking on a few to rehome here. Many go straight into foster homes.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> No problem helping, it just doesnt make sense to me that we would be killing dogs here or denying rescue places for dogs to be brought here from abroad


But dogs don't have a 'nationality' so to speak, they're dogs, why is, for example, a Spanish dog worth less than an English one?

I very, very rarely get into debates on this forum but this just baffles me completely 



simplysardonic said:


> I can only speak from what I've learned having adopted my Romanian girl- in the late 80s the dictator Ceaucescu moved thousands upon thousands of rural families into housing blocks, forcing them to leave their pets behind. These dogs & cats then ran wild for decades, breeding & just doing their best to survive (as all species do), despite constant violent persecution by the very species that put them in that situation in the first place. Many end up in hellish, filthy stinking public shelters.
> 
> As of January 2012 it has been easier to import dogs into the UK due to changes in the law, so many rescues have been taking on a few to rehome here. Many go straight into foster homes.


Thanks angel, explains it a bit more to me xx

ETA: it just seems like a very odd sort of racism in a way and I'm really in no way trying to flame, I'm just really shocked at this thread...I can't get my head around it, ALL rescues are in the same place...I just don't get it


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> But dogs don't have a 'nationality' so to speak, they're dogs, why is, for example, a Spanish dog worth less than an English one?
> 
> I very, very rarely get into debates on this forum but this just baffles me completely
> 
> Why would you kill a dog here to import another one, a dog on your doorstep ? not that hard to fathom is it ? its logic surely ?


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Flamingoes said:
> 
> 
> > But dogs don't have a 'nationality' so to speak, they're dogs, why is, for example, a Spanish dog worth less than an English one?
> ...


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted ....


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Bellaboo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Why kill a dog there to save one on your doorstep, they're both dogs? What has country got to do with it from their point of view?
> ...


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Flamingoes said:
> 
> 
> > But dogs don't have a 'nationality' so to speak, they're dogs, why is, for example, a Spanish dog worth less than an English one?
> ...


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

If you can't find what your looking for here rescue & help elsewhere simple!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Leam1307 said:


> I have a dog from Romania, and i would get another in a second. He was abanded in a skip at 2wks old and then lived on the street until he was 4 months, he was one of the lucky ones though, a lady in the houses nearby would give him food and take him inside when it was raining. The conditions in the shelters are horrible and if the dog catchers get them then they are killed, as the government gives them money for "euthanizing" strays although they do this by either setting fire to them, having a mass kull or injecting them in the heart with petrol! (it is cheaper to buy petrol than the drug to humanely euthanize, then they claim the whole money back from the government)
> 
> K9 Angels works to bring dogs over, they do occasionally bring some that dont have a specific home but these are kept in foster homes (usually people who already have a rescue) K9 also works with the shelters and individuals to catch vaccinate, neuter then release dogs in areas where they are over run. The dogs they have for adoption are mostly abandend pups and injured dogs that could not survive on their own.
> 
> ...


Rep for you for persevering with rescue and not giving in xx


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Flamingoes said:
> 
> 
> > Must have posted at the same time coz thats what i just said lol
> ...


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Flamingoes said:
> 
> 
> > Er exactly why kill a dog on your doorstep to import one from abroad, head desk !
> ...


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

I don't understand why people have to get so rude? it kinda proves a point really, and I agree with the racism thing, there is an undercurrent of that, in MY opinion. Go on....shoot me down in flames...I dare you.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Leam1307 said:


> ... shelters over there are even worse but they do try to have an onsite vet most days to deal with any problems, unfortunately alot of the dogs die due to infection lack of food and overcrowding before they are adopted. A few smugglers have also been caught in the last month trying to steal the dogs back out of these shelters and the government shelters will actually sell dogs to the smugglers and then claim the dogs died or "escaped"


It just struck me from your post that we could be talking about humans in the same way. Wrong is wrong with any sentient being whether human or animal. That is why some of us are getting a bit uptight in this thread. Trouble is - how do we change humanity?? What a debate this is because it is an intractable problem...None of us have the answer. The problem with dogs is syptomatic of a wider issue.

Sorry - didn't mean to turn philosophical - must be the wine.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Bellaboo1 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see it as logic, I try to see it from the dogs point of view. Other people have given many reasons why a dog from a rescue may not be rehomed to them in this country.
> ...


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Flamingoes said:
> 
> 
> > Bellaboo1 said:
> ...


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Kiwi said:


> It just struck me from your post that we could be talking about humans in the same way. Wrong is wrong with any sentient being whether human or animal. That is why some of us are getting a bit uptight in this thread. Trouble is - how do we change humanity?? What a debate this is because it is an intractable problem...None of us have the answer. The problem with dogs is syptomatic of a wider issue.
> 
> Sorry - didn't mean to turn philosophical - must be the wine.


Bella does...it's whisky


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

We had a young collie on death row this week with no offers for a space? its not just staffies that get put to sleep in the UK; with some 7000+ unclaimed pound dogs a year (and thatst the conservative estimate) I find it hard when rescues bring dogs over to the UK when we have dogs here who need help. OK so most are staffies, but there are a good mix of other dogs too.

I recently did a homecheck and had liaison with a lovely lady who helped at a romanian dog rescue and they were lovely and their rehoming criteria were the same as ours - I know these poor dogs need a chance... but on the other hand when some rescuse will not consider even one of our staffies but are shipping in dogs in from overseas. Yes they may fulfill a need for people wanting to rehome certain types of dogs but its still hard when you recieve yet another desperate email from a pound begging for help for the dogs due to be killed that week - it does give me a certain opinion. Rescue isn;t just about getting easy dogs from whatever source to rehome, its about helping difficult, older or harder to place dogs too (I guess whatever their source)

I don't like the way again in a post rescues are to blame for hte rescue problem... get a grip! the problem is caused by over breeding, irresponsible ownership and people not keeping a dog for life. If a rescues criteria means you are not suitable in their eyes go to the dog pound.. many don't have any criteria at all apart frmo the money to pay for the dog and bingo.. you have saved a dogs life.

As for children; I would object if orphanages were shipping in nice easy young kids to rehome leaving our poor homegrown children sitting in the orphanage.... ?

So on a higher level I don;t agree with it, because of my background but can see some of the reasons why and faced with a dog in need who could say no.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> I don't understand why people have to get so rude? it kinda proves a point really, and I agree with the racism thing, there is an undercurrent of that, in MY opinion. Go on....shoot me down in flames...I dare you.


OMG i knew that old chestnut would come up somewhere lol...mmm racism and dogs ........ jeez ..... dogism lol (whiskeys kicking in)

EmCHammer .... yes the rescue i help faces that dilemma every day too dogs at the end of their 7 days at the pound choosing which ones to take because you haven't got the room to take them all... thats what i'm trying to say, yes help dogs abroad but ours in the UK should given priority.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Can't belive its been called racism! 

Staffyism maybe where so many staffie types are shunned


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> OMG i knew that old chestnut would come up somewhere lol...mmm racism and dogs ........ jeez


I was going to ignore the racism comment but as you have addressed it.....have to agree

Racism is a serious matter and using it on a thread about dogs is inappropriate. This place gives me a headache at times


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Where does it stop? Why drive 200 miles across the UK to rescue a dog when there is a shelter in your home town?
Why did I drive 200 miles to pick up a single rescue rat I got a call about when if I scanned gumtree long enough, a rescue rat would pop up in my home county? Because I rescue, and I love them ALL. It isn't their fault I live in this area, and they live in that one.

Why is distance an issue? And if it is, where is the cut off point? Is there a number of miles one is allowed to travel before the rescue is 'unethical'?
Animals don't obey our governments political borders, they don't care where they are, they just need help.
I find it odd that someone could say 'well, you're the perfect dog for me but you're located a few hundred miles further away than this other dog, who isn't so perfect, so forget you!'

And, as others have said, with UK rescue rules being so unreasonable in a lot of cases, I'm actually considering a dog from abroad for our next.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

[QUOTEl. That is why some of us are getting a bit uptight in this thread. Trouble is - how do we change humanity?? What a debate this is because it is an intractable problem...None of us have the answer. The problem with dogs is syptomatic of a wider issue.

Sorry - didn't mean to turn philosophical - must be the wine. [/QUOTE]

wine sounds good 

Opinions differ or there sould be no debate. Emotions do run high but there doesn't need to be any rudeness and that wasnt my intention on starting the thread. What was is......several of my breed were brought over which meant several here couldn't be saved and that upset me.


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

strike a chord did it?

Anyway I'm off, I've never been one for debates, I feel what I feel, it's in my heart and nothing can change it, that's why I get cross. I make no apologies I'll just bow out now :001_smile:


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> strike a chord did it?
> 
> Anyway I'm off, I've never been one for debates, I feel what I feel, it's in my heart and nothing can change it, that's why I get cross. I make no apologies I'll just bow out now :001_smile:


Ah well nite nite....you have at least inspired a new "phrase" ....dogism  rofl


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> EmCHammer .... yes the rescue i help faces that dilemma every day too dogs at the end of their 7 days at the pound choosing which ones to take because you haven't got the room to take them all... thats what i'm trying to say, yes help dogs abroad but ours in the UK should given priority.


Agreed

Us UK rescues are so awful, we never rehome dogs, and I apologies for not letting the dogs in our care go to any old crap home and I know that may have cost a dog its life elsewhere

And it does impact your opinino when you see real life friendly dogs at the pound, who you then find out have been killed for want of somewhere to go. It may nto directly be the fault of a dog from elsewhere, but makes it all the more real.


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Ah well nite nite....you have at least inspired a new "phrase" ....dogism  rofl


Actually it wasn't me that brought it up, and it was you that made the word up.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Like Chez, I am going to bow-bow out of this one. Goodnight all! xx


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## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> My friend has also just got a little lurcher x from Thialand, She was in a cage with 13 other dogs (276 altogether in the small truck) which was stopped just outside the Vietnam border. The shelters over there are even worse but they do try to have an onsite vet most days to deal with any problems, unfortunately alot of the dogs die due to infection lack of food and overcrowding before they are adopted.


Which shelter did she come from? Did she come from Bangkok? If she is the dog I think she is I am very upset by this comment. Yes she was in a large cage with other dogs, however, none of the dogs died from infection, lack of food or overcrowding at the shelter! This happened on the truck travelling to Vietnam.

I fostered a few puppies from a local rescue in Bangkok, walked the dogs in the rural surroundings weekly and was involved in washing and treating the poor dogs rescued from the meat trade who came to us.

The pound was not up to UK standards admittedly but once the dogs were there they were cared for with much dedication from very commited volunteers. Unfortunately, there were not enough families to adopt the dogs  I thought I put photos of the dogs rescued on here but can't find them, I can repost some if you are interested?


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Actually me 3 - off to help my crappy UK based rescue turning down more homes and causing dogs to be killed


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

chez33 said:


> strike a chord did it?
> 
> Anyway I'm off, I've never been one for debates, I feel what I feel, it's in my heart and nothing can change it, that's why I get cross. I make no apologies I'll just bow out now :001_smile:


No....I can see you are not one for debates but you sure made unfounded and ridiculous assumptions.....I make no apologies either


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

My local rescue had a couple of staffies, a border terrier, other terrier mixes, jrts, a springer etc. not all rescues are full of staffies. Just saying. 

Racist because some people think we should address our problems in the UK before trying to save the rest of the world? Give me strength!


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Now Now children, play nice


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> thats what i'm trying to say, yes help dogs abroad but ours in the UK should given priority.


Asked this before, will do so again. Do you also say you should only get a rescue from the local rescue and not look further afield? What's the limit you should travel for a rescue dog?

What about if you live in England and rescue a dog from from Wales/Scotland or is it just those "continentals" you don't feel should be helped?

What always gets me with threads like this is that the UK has a reputation of being animal lovers and yet the rescue situation is so bad. Germany, for comparison, generally does not have a rescue "problem" and as far as I am aware no kill shelters are the norm, not an exception. From what I have seen over half the dogs on rescue internet sites are from other countries. Normally they are only brought into the country when an potential owner is found for that individual dog. You may then have to wait several months before a transport trip is arranged.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> Actually it wasn't me that brought it up, and it was you that made the word up.


Oh back again got your boxing gloves on lol.... ya couldn't resist could ya !


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Asked this before, will do so again. Do you also say you should only get a rescue from the local rescue and not look further afield? What's the limit you should travel for a rescue dog?
> 
> What about if you live in England and rescue a dog from from Wales/Scotland or is it just those "continentals" you don't feel should be helped?
> 
> What always gets me with threads like this is that the UK has a reputation of being animal lovers and yet the rescue situation is so bad. Germany, for comparison, generally does not have a rescue "problem" and as far as I am aware no kill shelters are the norm, not an exception. From what I have seen over half the dogs on rescue internet sites are from other countries. Normally they are only brought into the country when an potential owner is found for that individual dog. You may then have to wait several months before a transport trip is arranged.


I'm not saying dogs abroad shouldn't be helped it just makes sense to me that the ones in pounds etc here would take priority over ones being brought into the country, they are already here, why would you import more ?


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> Now Now children, play nice


LOL You started it :tongue_smilie:


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Asked this before, will do so again. Do you also say you should only get a rescue from the local rescue and not look further afield? What's the limit you should travel for a rescue dog?
> 
> What about if you live in England and rescue a dog from from Wales/Scotland or is it just those "continentals" you don't feel should be helped?
> .


It's not that they shouldn't be helped, just we should look after our own first!

Wales and Scotland are UK, so technically they aren't abroad but to answer your question from my point of view is....no, not just local rescue. I'm involved with my breed rescue nationally and I'm sure that many rescues with various branches will move their dogs around their various locations. Regardless of where in the UK a rescue gets re-homed then as sure as there is snow in the Artic, then their place will be filled very quickly


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Bellaboo1 said:


> LOL You started it :tongue_smilie:


I did  but I didn't want people to be rude. Just a nice, healthy debate with opinions.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2013)

The fact is guys, even if its from the UK or not...

YOU ARE RESCUING A DOG WHO NEEDED A FOREVER HOME!

For that reason, and that reason *alone* you should be proud.

Does it really matter where it came from? No, because at the time, at the time where it needed someone the most, you came along and gave it a home, you gave it training, food and exercise.

The fact you are arguing over numbers/ over certain countries dog's lives being priority is, quite frankly, bizarre.

Chill out.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> I did  but I didn't want people to be rude. Just a nice, healthy debate with opinions.


I don't mean to come across as rude, i'm quite enjoying the banter  i need to get out more me thinks


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Bellaboo1 said:


> I don't mean to come across as rude, i'm quite enjoying the banter


I wasnt offended by your comment, it takes an awful lot to offend me anyway. But there was some rudeness felt by others it seems


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted ....


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> I wasnt offended by your comment, it takes an awful lot to offend me anyway. But there was some rudeness felt by others it seems


They gave as good as they got, as you said emotions run high on this sort of subject......killed a couple of hours anyway :crazy:

I was trying to be witty in reply to your now now post, obviously i failed !


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## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> Sorry i dont know which shelter she was held at, and i wasnt meaning the exact shelter she was at anyway, i just meant some of the ones from Thialand. She came through Soi Dogs though, i do know that and some of the things they show on FB of the dogs that have passed away, usually because they have an infection or disease when they come and the ones that have not been vaccinated yet get it too although not all of them die. i didnt mean anything against the rescue shelters i know they do as good a job as they can and help so many. it must be so hard when you have 200+ dogs all coming in at once.


Sounds like she was one of ours  Soi Dogs took over from SCAD after it shut down and we had most of that load in our shelter. The local ones are awful but most of those dogs came to the Western run one due to the big publicity that happened.

Hope this link works as there is a video of not long after the dogs arrived and I went to help wash them! http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/221916-what-i-did-week.html


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> No problem helping, it just doesnt make sense to me that we would be killing dogs here or denying rescue places for dogs to be brought here from abroad





Bellaboo1 said:


> I'm not saying dogs abroad shouldn't be helped it just makes sense to me that the ones in pounds etc here would take priority over ones being brought into the country, they are already here, why would you import more ?


I think this is where I'm at ... it just doesn't sit comfortably with me that we're importing dogs when there are thousands of our own being destroyed as homes can't be found for them .....

I'm not in any way saying that all dogs shouldn't be able to be helped, or that it doesn't break my heart reading stories / seeing pics from some of the terrible places / things that happen abroad .... just surely we should sort our own backyard out first?

Saying that .... I do also think that a lot of the rescues here need to get a grip with some of their polices on rehoming. No, I'm not saying that they should let anyone have any dog *but* cases should be looked individually rather than just a blanket "no" and writing off a good home because of x or y - when in actual fact z is in place which solves the problem.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted ....


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

It's the whole 'looking after are own' mentality I don't understand, this is why we will ALWAYS argue. 

And yes, the re-homing policies here at some rescue's are shocking.


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## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> Just watched the link, they look so happy to be getting a nice bath. It doesnt look like the shelter she was in, im sure hers didnt have individual pens or that, it was just bare earth floors with trough like things for water and foor and raised wooden beds for them to lie on. I was always amazed at how frieldnt they seem to be with other dogs when there is sooo many of them


Oh probably not then  I know 2 of ours went to the UK and I was so excited to think your friend's might be one of them. Our shelter had pens for about 4 dogs each and then the huge run so if they were all friendly they could go out together or take it in turns if they were not so friendly.

I can't really join in this discussion as Jenny is our Chinese adopted dog but we were living there at the time and moved her to Thailand with us and then brought her with us when we were moved back home. I wasn't going to leave her behind!


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

chez33 said:


> It's the whole 'looking after are own' mentality I don't understand, this is why we will ALWAYS argue.
> 
> And yes, the re-homing policies here at some rescue's are shocking.


Oi i thought you were going........


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

chez33 said:


> It's the whole 'looking after are own' mentality I don't understand, this is why we will ALWAYS argue.
> 
> And yes, the re-homing policies here at some rescue's are shocking.


Ohhhhh fair enough - to me it's the total opposite .... "Charity begins at home" kind of thing


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

chez33 said:


> It's the whole 'looking after are own' mentality I don't understand, this is why we will ALWAYS argue.


I don't see that this is wrong  Given that not all British rescues are full of problem bull breeds, there will be a dog for everyone. A friend just rescued a chi that was handed in with three other chis.

I honestly believe we should tackle our own problems first. You cannot help the whole world. Will the next trend be rescuing Bulgarian dogs when they join the EU next year? Then whatever country is next?

Education is better, IMO and if necessary, humane euthanasia of dogs here *and* abroad.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted ....


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> Perhaps if more time was spent educating UK folk about neutering and spaying and sanctions were put in place for breeders and it was harder to buy over here then we might not have the shelter problem anymore. but i cant see any of that happening so. At the end of the day a life is a life no matter where in the world, at least humans have the ability to make a difference for them selves, animals have no such abilities.
> 
> Yup, that goes for most countries i would think, which is what i was trying to say, instead of passing on the problem to another country, educate, neuter etc in that country


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Leam1307 said:


> if i could have adopted over here i would do, and yes i probs could have adopted a dog from England that wasnt a staffie.. and got on with cats.. (if the rescue allowed it) but then they want you to visit the dog 3 or 4 times before you take it home. i could have afforded to drive 600miles to pick it up, but not 3 or 4 times just to visit with no gaurantee we would have been accepted anyway.


Which goes back to the fact that many of the rescues here need to take a step back and have a bit of a reality check about their rehoming criteria / policies.

Very few homes are 100% perfect - but surely being left for a few hours (and especially older dogs) with a dog walker in place or a home with cats etc is better than being stuck in a kennel probably 23 hours out of 24 ..... for weeks ... months and even years on end 

I know countless people who've been turned down and have ended up going out and getting a pup instead .... which in turn helps fuel BYB ... more dogs ending up in rescue as people don't realise how much work a pup is


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted ....


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Some people really should try working for a rescue before being so quick to criticise. A home is better of course to lump all rescues together as crap gets on my nerves . Amazing how do many know so much about rescue based on stories on an Internet forum and lfriends of friends.

Yet again a topic changes into how horrible UK rescues are. 

The cat thing for example.. We can't properly test the dogs in a home environment with cats and can only go on what dogs we think are cat workable. Even then we need to be sure the home is happy introducing both... Everyone's an expert on how to do it but when it doesn't work out who suffers.. The dog or your cat.. As only recently heard from another rescue where the dog killed the family cat. 

Anyway I am digressing on my soap box

Yes I have my stance on dogs from abroad but doesn't mean I need to carry on about how their policies are bad they do a bad job they are to blame blah blah . Sure they do a cracking job. I don't think a dog from abroad should be seen as an easy option I would like to hope they had some sensible and rigorous policies themselves as I am sure many do.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Hmm rescues turn someone down as per the above by a couple posts. They then go and get a pup. Pup ends up being rehomed when they realise how had work a pup is. Hmmm. Maybe the rescue realised how flaky these homes were and didn't want to let their dogs go with such people who would buy a dog and discard it a few months later when it became too much?? Should a rescue have rehomed to these countless people cos they thought they wanted a dog ?


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> But we need to start doing it here too before going preaching to other countries, it doesnt look good telling them to do something that we dont do ourselves.


So why take on more dogs from other countries when we have enough of our own to rehome

Yes some rescues could look at their rehoming policies and judge more on a case by case basis, its very hard they are damned if they do and damned if they don't


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

pearltheplank said:


> I know this will most likely cause controversy but I'm curious into peoples reasoning.
> 
> I know no dog deserves to be abandoned or worse but it seems recently that many are coming over from Europe. Surely, this means one less UK dog gets its forever home.


I understand the reasoning behind your post, why take in other dogs from other countries if our own sanctuaries are bulging fit to burst, but could I ask you a question if you were a rescue worker, how would you pick or choose, a homeless, battered, unwanted, unloved, pile of fur and bones that needs love care and attention, and discard it, in favour of a British dog.

Irrespective as to what country it is, every animal on this earth deserves a chance, more so those in need of TENDER LOVING CARE AND TAKEN OUT OF THE HELLHOLES THAT THEY EXIST IN, and taken to a better place where there have half a chance of having a few more years on earth, to live free from pain and suffering.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> I understand the reasoning behind your post, why take in other dogs from other countries if our own sanctuaries are bulging fit to burst, but could I ask you a question if you were a rescue worker, how would you pick or choose, a homeless, battered, unwanted, unloved, pile of fur and bones that needs love care and attention, and discard it, in favour of a British dog.
> 
> Irrespective as to what country it is, every animal on this earth deserves a chance, more so those in need of TENDER LOVING CARE AND TAKEN OUT OF THE HELLHOLES THAT THEY EXIST IN, and taken to a better place where there have half a chance of having a few more years on earth, to live free from pain and suffering.


Yes but not to the detriment of other dogs


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Plenty of unloved mistreated dogs in the UK.. It's not exclusive to abroad.. ?


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

mummyschnauzer said:


> I understand the reasoning behind your post, why take in other dogs from other countries if our own sanctuaries are bulging fit to burst, but could I ask you a question if you were a rescue worker, how would you pick or choose, a homeless, battered, unwanted, unloved, pile of fur and bones that needs love care and attention, and discard it, in favour of a British dog.


I DO work in rescue and ' homeless, battered, unwanted, unloved, pile of fur and bones' is what I see frequently and they are the British ones


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I will only rescue from the UK. 

Yes it's horrendous what other countries do to their dogs. I have seen and heard all the stories, but there are equally horrific things happening on our own doorstep too. Dogs used for baiting and fighting, at my parents local shelter they had a dog that was hog tied and had a rusty can put on her face as a way to stop her barking - she was thrown in the verge next to their shelter. 

With foreign countries - I believe education is the best course of action. In the UK the cruelty is unforgivable because the education is out there. We have the ability to search on the internet, we have the ability to get information from people like vets and behaviourists. IMO thats what makes the UK the worst out of all the countries causing suffering to animals. The UK and the other rich countries - we should know better. (If that makes sense)

However if people chose to rescue from abroad - thats their choice and well done to them. But I will only rescue from the UK.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

This 4 month old came through rescue not long ago and was in foster until she recovered sufficiently to be rehomed. She was unloved, unwanted and neglected. Now to me, she deserves a new home which she may not have got had others been brought over. Sorry, it's harsh but there you go. My feelings


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

SLB said:


> With foreign countries - I believe education is the best course of action.


You can only "educate" if it can be seen that you are better.. is the UK?

Too all those with who are pushing for "rescue British"... do you also only "buy British" whenever possible?


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Too all those with who are pushing for "rescue British"... do you also only "buy British" whenever possible?


I do, whenever possible yes


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

EmCHammer said:


> Hmm rescues turn someone down as per the above by a couple posts. They then go and get a pup. Pup ends up being rehomed when they realise how had work a pup is. Hmmm. Maybe the rescue realised how flaky these homes were and didn't want to let their dogs go with such people who would buy a dog and discard it a few months later when it became too much?? Should a rescue have rehomed to these countless people cos they thought they wanted a dog ?





EmCHammer said:


> Some people really should try working for a rescue before being so quick to criticise. A home is better of course to lump all rescues together as crap gets on my nerves . Amazing how do many know so much about rescue based on stories on an Internet forum and lfriends of friends.


If you're referring to my post ... I have actually worked with several animal rescues over the years ......



Bellaboo1 said:


> So why take on more dogs from other countries when we have enough of our own to rehome
> 
> Yes some rescues could look at their rehoming policies and judge more on a case by case basis, its very hard they are damned if they do and damned if they don't


That's all I'm suggesting ... that it shouldn't just be a blanket "no" when something comes up - each case should be looked at individually.

In many cases, there is some history known about the dog - surely if it's known it's lived with cats / children before & there's not been a problem, then that particular dog could go to such a home!

It's not solely restricted to dogs .... there are cats in our local shelter (which is just outside a city so many people keep their cats in) with notes against the cage stating "has lived indoors his whole life but needs to get out now" and they now won't rehome to anyone who doesn't have a garden .... needless to say, I am no longer volunteering with them!


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

A lot of the time it isn't so much education per say as it is cultural value systems that don't hold dogs in high esteem. A bit like how a lot of British people see rats as vermin and don't think too much of poisoning/otherwise exterminating them. 

You can try and educate people till your blue in the face that rats are sociable, intelligent, wonderful creatures but for many it doesn't compute- because they hate them and don't want them anywhere near their home.
- so in the same way a rural Taiwanese village in Mae Hon Song might see a dog as a pain in the arse, disease ridden nuisance (because for them, it is) best dispatched ASAP. 

....... anyway what I am trying to say is that, whilst I agree on principle that more should be done by these countries in terms of controlling populations and the responsibility for these animals ultimately remains theirs, on a pragmatic level, until that happens, the dogs are stuffed. Their hope is in the people that care now, whether they are native indigenous or not. 

IMO it is only natural for animal lovers to be drawn to aid a situation like that regardless of borders or nationality.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

My mum is massively into the idea of rescuing foreign dogs. I am not against anyone else doing it and personally I think it is very admirable to bring a dog from a foreign country which has lived a totally different lifestyle - often on the streets, never seen the inside of a house with a TV, vacuum cleaner, stairs, furniture... I think if people want to do it then that's fine, like everyone says, the dogs need and deserve help no matter what country they are from.

HOWEVER, personally I couldn't do it - I think like everything else, we have a habit of sticking our nose into every other countries issues BEFORE sorting out our own. Like I say, i'm not against anyone else rescuing a dog from abroad but I am a firm believer of charity beginning at home and I would much sooner rescue a dog from one of our own rescues. Personally.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I remember the thread of Raindogs with the Huskys used for bait - tells me that there are plenty of dogs over here who don't get the chance of a peaceful death either. Where do you draw the line and how do you choose what countries to take them from? As I said in Mexico they euthanise by soaking a load of dogs in an enclosure with electric cables underneath then turn on the power, who will help them?

I think funding should go towards opening centres and education in those countries because without that it's just a bottomless pit and will continue to carry on - maybe at the expense of some of the UK's needy dogs. Money can be used for other things instead of air flights etc. and if that means giving a foreign dog a peaceful death because no one wants it how is that any different to what's happening over here?
Either way there is discrimination, whether it be towards foreign dogs or our own - one of the two will miss out and I don't think it should be ours not when our rescues are doing so much to help. It must be heartbreaking for them to see their dogs pts and one's from abroad being homed and these are people who really do care about dogs in general but I bet that stings a little!

ETA - Does IFAW help in any way?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> You said it so much better than me, education and help in their own countries is whats needed in the first place, not just shipping the dogs to other countries for them to deal with


You really need to get yourself to a third world country and see what happens to their animals.

And BEFORE you start.... I actually have lived and worked in animal rescue in a third world country for 7 years!!!! And its like banging your head against a brick wall!! Educate? Waste of time! The law? Waste of time! Dogs kicked, maimed, tortured, set on fire, used as bait, mutilated (and thats just their owners!!!). Get yourself over there and see for yourself before spouting your mouth off about things you dont know about. Put to sleep? Im sat looking at my two third world dogs - not a chance!!!!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

There is great cruelty to children in some countries too and you say no amount of education will help in those cases but we are seeing improvements in certain places with education and the younger generations.

In a perfect world we would all like to put things right but unfortunately we can't - not even for kids and they can't be shipped around so there's nothing for them.

If we think about the bigger picture we could try to educate, try to change things because without at least trying it will never stop - ever! Not addressing the problem and just removing some of it will teach nothing and most probably no one will even know that it's wrong either!

Here's another that may not be homed and he's just a baby. Should he be pts for a dog from abroad?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/285372-can-anyone-help-dog.html


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Malmum said:


> Here's another that may not be homed and he's just a baby. Should he be pts for a dog from abroad?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/285372-can-anyone-help-dog.html


Well no of course not, but should someone who was going to collect a UK dog out of a rescue tomorrow cancel to take this one? Should someone who is about to buy a puppy cancel and home this dog instead? 
Every time some-one makes their choice from rescue or from a litter of puppies other dogs in rescue miss out. That sadly is just the way it is. Each and every dog IMO is worthy dosen`t matter where it was born, how it was treated or how old it is.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Here's another that may not be homed and he's just a baby. Should he be pts for a dog from abroad?


Playing devils advocate but didn't you say you wouldn't rescue anyway? Therefore having dogs couldn't you be seen as killing a dog in rescue for each dog you own just as I did getting Nelson as a puppy when I could have had a rescue dog/puppy from another country with kill shelters? What's the dividing line other than what someone creates themselves?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Have you seen bitches straight out of puppy farms in this ANIMAL LOVING COUNTRY???

A bald bag of bones....hardly seen the light of day because they've been knocking litters out like there's no tomorrow....starved....flea ridden....serious illnesses. These babies need nursing back to health to give them some quality of life..need house training..socialisation..medication. Those are the lucky ones that make it to rescue. What about retired Greyhounds....they need loving homes when the racing enthusiasts have finished using them like machines.

I have no doubt that there is awful suffering for dogs in other Countries but shouldn't we get our own house in order before we rescue foreign dogs.

I totally agree with sending over aid to help the dogs that are suffering ....not just shipping over the lucky few whilst the rest are left suffering.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

chichi said:


> but shouldn't we get our own house in order before we rescue foreign dogs.


When is the UK going to get their house in order? I don't ever see it happening unless there is a major social upheaval.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Goblin said:


> When is the UK going to get their house in order? I don't ever see it happening unless there is a major social upheaval.


Who knows..... but certainly we are a long way from being anywhere near sorted out and won't be until people stop buying pups from people with little or no breeding ethics.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

And another aspect of all this is that very many of those dogs rescued from another country most likely will end up in a British rescue. In Sweden it has been very popular to "adopt" dogs from other countries since the 90:s and even though we don't have the rescue problem that you do in the UK it is a fact that very many of the "adopted" dogs gets rehomed, some several times. 

This is probably because the people buying a rescue from abroad doesn't really know what they are getting themselves into. The look at a picture on the Internet and see a cute dog, but a picture doesn't say much about a dog. As someone here mentioned, these are dogs that are used to a life on the street; they don't know how to live inside, they have never seen a vaccum cleaner or even furniture, they're not toilet trained etc. Some of them will be scared and some will just be a handful to teach not to pee inside, chew on furniture etc. This WILL cause problems, because the people getting the cute dog from the picture doesn't understand that they basically are getting a puppy with sometimes serious issues. 

They soon find that they are in over their head, the cute dog wasn't so cute after all when it doesn't want to cuddle (because it never had any positive experiences with people before), doesn't come when called and/or is still peeing inside after two months. 

So they decide to get rid of the dog. In Sweden they dog is rehomed via ads in the paper or the equivalent to Craigs list, but I'd assume that they in the UK will end up in a rescue.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Lillylass I was referring to something you had said at first can't work out quotes on this phone re people turned down by rescue will rehome pup and then give it up because its hard work and you knew countless instances of this? Seemed like that's not the rescues fault people are not dedicated enough to keep the dog they brought and should be a sign of the rescues good rehoming policies that they weeded out people who hadn't got what it took to own a dog ?


The other quote refers not to you but to this forum/ Facebook and people in general who constantly criticise rescues and tell us how we could do things better. 

Our rescue dosent make people visit 3 or 4 times ? The only time we might is it its a difficult dog and the family needs to bins or make sure it's the right decision. They are welcome to visit as many times as they like. We don't rehome to hundreds of miles away cos we have found it doesn't work so well for us for a few reasons. 

I know there are some rescues that are overseas based and arrange for dogs to come over but what I find harder is to see dogs in the UK we are trying to help suddenly have their backs turned upon by rescues that heled before now importing dogs. I know those dogs deserve a chance but I am trying to help dogs here.

I don't even know how many dogs we are even talking about anyway coming over in the grand scheme of things.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Vicki said:


> And another aspect of all this is that very many of those dogs rescued from another country most likely will end up in a British rescue.


Once again it depends on the responsibility level of the organisation who arranged the rescue. Ours had a contract where we would have to return the dog to them if we couldn't work it out. They would then foster it out rather than place in rescue until a new home is found.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

I think I would have been hard pressed to find a rescue here that would adopt a dobe to me. 
I did look. The pitfalls were always: no large dog experience, small yard, cats/other pets. It was always one, or all, of these that stood in my way.

It was one of the main reasons I went with a breeder pup instead. I did originally go to rescue as my first port of call, but every time I found a website for rescue dobes, one of these issues cancelled me out right away. 
My breeder, on the other hand, had no issues with any of that. We met, we spent hours just talking, he knew I would be a good owner. But I do think a hell of a lot of people go the breeder or free ad site just to avoid the restrictions of some rescues. 
Rescues _should_ have rules, my own rescue does. But I will still home rats to first time owners if they can show me the dedication required, and they know that the rat will come back here if it ever can't be kept any longer. I am picky about who I home to, but.....not based on a set of rules, but based on how the person comes across in conversation.
I can tell who is after a rat as a loving companion, who has done their research, who has the right attitude, and who is just after one on a whim and hasn't bothered looking into it much.

I judge on the person themselves. I have turned people away, but based only on their attitude, not their experience or what they feed, or what cage they have.
If they don't feed what I feed, ok, I advise on what I think is best. If they don't have a correctly sized cage, I advise them on which one to get. I let people 'correct' the issues I might have, I don't just flat out refuse them. 
If they don't make the changes, I politely advise them to go elsewhere.

So I do get rescues having rules, I just don't agree with it being based _only_ on a set of strict guidelines without taking into account the individual person.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Playing devils advocate but didn't you say you wouldn't rescue anyway? Therefore having dogs couldn't you be seen as killing a dog in rescue for each dog you own just as I did getting Nelson as a puppy when I could have had a rescue dog/puppy from another country with kill shelters? What's the dividing line other than what someone creates themselves?


I think any one of my dogs could have easily ended up in rescue had they not been bought, Kali especially with her issues around dogs. The only dog I actually bought was T-Bo the jrt cross. Marty is my daughters dog, Britches is my other daughters dog and T-Bo my youngest daughters who we bought for her. Kali was bought as a surprise by my ex OH and a right BYB at that. Bruce was also bought by ex OH. Goodness knows what would have become of Kali had he not bought her for me, her breeder is always in the BRS with litters and a different dam every other time.

Three crosses who could have ended up in rescue, Marty from a horse breeder who no longer breeds dogs. Kali from your typical BYB - so in a way I have always said we actually may have saved rescue from having to deal with five potential other dogs as none of the breeders wanted to hear from us after the first fortnight or so and I'm pretty sure wouldn't want to take any of them back if we'd needed.

Two of my litter came back to me and I re homed myself. No way would I want any of my pups going into rescue, absolutely no way!!! I HAVE to keep in touch with their owners and if ever they don't want them they come back here, not the solitary confinement if a kennel that could give them behavioural issues. That's why if I rescued it would be via AMUK rescue where dogs are in foster homes and properly assessed, better info gained before taking them on.

Some of these rescues make me laugh. The do so much assessing potential owners but seem to not to be able to properly assess the dogs in their care, how could they in a kennel environment and not a home setting? So you get some folk who once they have the dog at home have nightmares with behavioural problems. It should work both ways - both should be assessed and a little lee way given to the rules of potential owners, since some seem not to be very adept at assessing the dog they're passing on. Risky IMO!


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Once again it depends on the responsibility level of the organisation who arranged the rescue. Ours had a contract where we would have to return the dog to them if we couldn't work it out. They would then foster it out rather than place in rescue until a new home is found.


Yes, well, so did the organisation that brought my rescue from Ireland to Sweden. In the end of the day, they didn't really care that much, contract or not. Although, they were willing to take him back to sell him again, to a family with small children even though the owner couldn't keep him because he was aggressive to children :crazy: That would have lead to him being put to sleep or placed in a new home.

But even if the organisation really does take the dog back and places it in a foster home and then a new home, it's still very stressful for the dog. Getting a new home is stressful to any dog, but I'd say it's especially stressful for dogs from the background that those dogs from abroad often has. And the original issues will not magically go away, either, so it's not unlikely that it'll end up in foster home/rescue again.

My opinion is that dog's shouldn't have to move around, wether it's a new "permanent" home, a foster home or a rescue. When I took in my rescue dog I swore that he'd never have to go to a new home again. Even if that meant putting him to sleep, it wouldn't be humane to have him sent off to a new home (and perhaps another and then another...)


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Goblin said:


> You can only "educate" if it can be seen that you are better.. is the UK?
> 
> Too all those with who are pushing for "rescue British"... do you also only "buy British" whenever possible?


I do yes.

Education doesn't have to be a lot - just the basic needs of the animal. We have people to ensure the basic needs for animals are taken care of (Ok sometimes they are questionable but they are there).

But my post was my belief and my opinion - I have no problem with people bringing dogs in from other countries but I wouldn't do it myself.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> You really need to get yourself to a third world country and see what happens to their animals.
> 
> And BEFORE you start.... I actually have lived and worked in animal rescue in a third world country for 7 years!!!! And its like banging your head against a brick wall!! Educate? Waste of time! The law? Waste of time! Dogs kicked, maimed, tortured, set on fire, used as bait, mutilated (and thats just their owners!!!). Get yourself over there and see for yourself before spouting your mouth off about things you dont know about. Put to sleep? Im sat looking at my two third world dogs - not a chance!!!!


Wind your neck in love, actually i do know  are you in rescue in this country may i ask ? please don't presume to know me because you don't so i really don't think you should be casting aspersions  .....now who's spouting their mouth off !


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Yes but not to the detriment of other dogs


I'm not saying to the detriment of others, all animals, that are in pain, or neglected or abused need help, I support WWF, which include animals whose natural habitats aren't in England, so are you saying to me, don't help the tigers or others, I think this is a personal decision and my decision if I want to rescue any animal from any country.

How can you just rescue one dog and not the others, just because of the country it happens to live in. No, all animals from any country have the right to be saved. After all, we are supposed to be the custodians of the animal world.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> I'm not saying to the detriment of others, all animals, that are in pain, or neglected or abused need help, I support WWF, which include animals whose natural habitats aren't in England, so are you saying to me, don't help the tigers or others, I think this is a personal decision and my decision if I want to rescue any animal from any country.
> 
> How can you just rescue one dog and not the others, just because of the country it happens to live in. No, all animals from any country have the right to be saved. After all, we are supposed to be the custodians of the animal world.


Actually i donate to the WWF monthly, i think tigers etc are a tad different, they are being helped in their own country and not brought here and taking rescue spaces 

What i'm saying is do you think its right that a dog is brought here to take a rescue space of a dog in this country thats on death row to be PTS ? because thats what it boils down to. In an ideal world yes they'd all be saved but thats not possible. You have your opinion and i have mine lets leave it at that coz its getting a bit tedious now


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Wind your neck in love, actually i do know  are you in rescue in this country may i ask ? please don't presume to know me because you don't so i really don't think you should be casting aspersions  .....now who's spouting their mouth off !


Yep I certainly am. As a matter of fact I am picking up a 16 year old cat this Sunday from Northampton who was to be pts because his owner died - organised through Caninoanimalrescue on this forum!

How about yourself?


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## xMaloreyx (Jan 3, 2013)

Geez. You'd think people would be happy a dog is being saved, no matter where it comes from. If you don't think people should rescue a dog and give it a good life from another country, fine, continue to rescue from your local rescues, good on you. If someone wants to rescue a dog from another country rather than local, good on them too for taking it a little farther to help an animal. Personally, I will be one who sticks to rescuing local right now, but would like to expand to rescuing from other states some day too. I most likely will never take in a dog from another country (except maybe Canada, since it is so close), but have great respect for those who get dogs from other places, and for those who rescue local.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Actually i donate to the WWF monthly, i think tigers etc are a tad different, they are being helped in their own country and not brought here and taking rescue spaces
> 
> What i'm saying is do you think its right that a dog is brought here to take a rescue space of a dog in this country thats on death row to be PTS ? because thats what it boils down to. In an ideal world yes they'd all be saved but thats not possible. You have your opinion and i have mine lets leave it at that coz its getting a bit tedious now


Sorry Bellaboo, you are the one making an issue out of this, firstly people who are animal lovers cannot restrict their compassions for the safe keeping of animals just to one country only, and secondly if you are a member of WWF, you can read that Tigers do indeed come here and to many othr countries to assist in the very important "Breed programme" to ensure that other generations can benefit from having this beautiful creature in their midst, that the "Human Race" is quickly destroying. I am not nit picking at you, but if you care about animals as you say you do, please get your facts rights before posting. I for one do not think this issue is tedious it is important for animals and mankind to understand that we have a need to look after all animals who suffer irrespective as to where they are.

What about if you went on holdiay with your dog abroad or even went to live there and your dog got lost, would you want it refused treatment or refuge becasue it isn't in England.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> Yep I certainly am. As a matter of fact I am picking up a 16 year old cat this Sunday from Northampton who was to be pts because his owner died - organised through Caninoanimalrescue on this forum!
> 
> How about yourself?


For your informaion i have an ex racng greyhound and a rescue lurcher and i foster dogs and fund raise so i try to do my bit


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

xMaloreyx said:


> but have great respect for those who get dogs from other places, and for those who rescue local.


I think rather than generic rescues those who rescue dogs which would otherwise be in rescue far too long are to be admired. Those who take on board those difficult dogs for example and work with them correcting the problems (fosters included here). That and those who take older dogs on board with possible health problems simply due to old age. Of course you could also argue that these dogs, having problems are taking up space available for other healthy, more easily rehomed dogs. Maybe they should be killed to make room.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> Sorry Bellaboo, you are the one making an issue out of this, firstly people who are animal lovers cannot restrict their compassions for the safe keeping of animals just to one country only, and secondly if you are a member of WWF, you can read that Tigers do indeed come here and to many othr countries to assist in the very important "Breed programme" to ensure that other generations can benefit from having this beautiful creature in their midst, that the "Human Race" is quickly destroying. I am not nit picking at you, but if you care about animals as you say you do, please get your facts rights before posting. I for one do not think this issue is tedious it is important for animals and mankind to understand that we have a need to look after all animals who suffer irrespective as to where they are.


As i said you have your opinion and i have mine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, i'ts down to others what they feel is right, just because i don't happen to agree with you doesn't mean i don't care. A for making an issue of it isn't that what this thread was for to discuss ?

Tigers come here yes but as i said they don't take valuable rescue places do they, they go to zoo's etc, hardly a comparison in my book.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Goblin said:


> I think rather than generic rescues those who rescue dogs which would otherwise be in rescue far too long are to be admired. Those who take on board those difficult dogs for example and work with them correcting the problems (fosters included here). That and those who take older dogs on board with possible health problems simply due to old age. Of course you could also argue that these dogs, having problems are taking up space available for other healthy, more easily rehomed dogs. Maybe they should be killed to make room.


I note you are in Germany not the UK, how does Germany deal with the problem ?


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> As i said you have your opinion and i have mine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, i'ts down to others what they feel is right, just because i don't happen to agree with you doesn't mean i don't care. A for making an issue of it isn't that what this thread was for to discuss ?
> 
> Tigers come here yes but as i said they don't take valuable rescue places do they, they go to zoo's etc, hardly a comparison in my book.


Bellaboo, I also quoted this:-

What about if you went on holdiay with your dog abroad or even went to live there and your dog got lost/ stolen,would you want it refused treatment or refuge becasue it isn't in England.

Which you either overlooked or decided not to answer, because I think in anyone's opinion most people would wish if there dog was lost or stolen abroad, that it would be returned to England to be re-untied with its owner, but on the other hand if you are saying we should ignore all dogs apart from English ones then people who lose their dogs abroad, with the policy you want, will never see their pets again.

We are part of the same European Union, so what applies here also applies abroad, and if the RESCUE situation was better abroad, then our dogs would go there.

I have just donated money to an English sanctuary to re-home Romanian dogs, but that doesn't mean to say that the English dogs will be ignored.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

mummyschnauzer said:


> That's not relevant at all! The dogs would be returned to their owner, not taking up a rescue space


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> Bellaboo, I also quoted this:-
> 
> What about if you went on holdiay with your dog abroad or even went to live there and your dog got lost/ stolen,would you want it refused treatment or refuge becasue it isn't in England.
> 
> ...


You have taken what i said entirely out of context, actually i didn't see the part you quoted before but i'll answer now. I never said dogs should be refused treatment if lost or stolen ?  whats that got to do with dogs coming to the UK ? Ishall repeat what i said before, no problem with dogs coming here from abroad but ours should be given priority, meaning ones in pound on death row etc being given rescue spaces instead of importing dogs, to me thats just common sense

I'm done here i'm fed up having to justify and repeat myself :crazy: i think this thread has run its course. I respect the fact othrs have their opinion it just doesn't happen to be mine so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one before it runs into the longest thread on Pet Forums !


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Agree that doesn't seem relevant? 

I would expect that anywhere in the world I was that if I had the money to pay for treatment my dog would get the treatment? And I can't see anyone else paying to ship my lost dog back.. and it would be coming back to me at my expense.

I suppose if my dog came back to me from abroad where I had lost it would stop me going out and rehoming another dog in the UK - so a dog in the UK would loose out?

I would like my dog to be treated with respect and given a c hance if lost abroad - as would we all thats what alot of people are referring to with using education to change things.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

I don't care where the dog is from. A dog in need is a dog in need. 

I don't get the "holier than thou" rescuer attitude, the one who thinks their rescue is more worthy because the hard luck story is sadder, because the conditions were worse, because whatever.

I tend to take on behavioral challenges on because we're good at that and we have the resources to do it effectively. A friend of mine gravitates more towards medical challenges because that's what she is good at. Another friend does a ton of transport because she has the time and flexibility in her schedule. 

Really if we all just do what we can, we can make a difference, be it writing a check, lending expertese to a new home, or taking in the worst of the worst. Who cares WHAT we do as long as you're doing something right? Seems counter productive to me to judge others on how they choose to help. But what do I know...


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> I don't get the "holier than thou" rescuer attitude, the one who thinks their rescue is more worthy because the hard luck story is sadder, because the conditions were worse, because whatever.


My rescue (wellt he one I volunteer lol) isn't more worthy.. but its the ones with the Dogs in that we are responsible for and who we are trying to rehome/ find rescue spaces for - so my priority has to be them... (and of course when you have met them rather than just seen pictures on the net) they become even more special to us.

I think its human nature to want to help an animal in need for most.. if we have a puppy or a starved dog or a dog with a sad tale we get alot more requests to rehome/ offers of help etc, than our 'bog standard' dog found straying, unclaimed.

I don't do it for people to think good of me or for thanks, in fact I find it embarassing if people thank me for it.. just doing my bit cos I enjoy it and wanted to help. Everyone who helps us be it donations, transporting, walking, rehoming, fostering all play their part in the bigger picture


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> I note you are in Germany not the UK, how does Germany deal with the problem ?


Germany is one of two countries in the EU, Italy being the other where dogs are not allowed to be euthanized simply as they are strays requiring that they be kennelled for life unless they can find a home. Some autonomous communities in Spain are the same. Greece neuters strays and releases them instead. No kill is the therefore the norm here but do not know what happens if a dog is judged "dangerous".

Our local shelter has a total of 13 dogs with space for at least 4 times as many as far as I could see. The shelter serves Osnabrück and surrounding area and Osnabrück is twinned with Derby for comparison purposes. 3 of the dogs have been there for over a year, each with specific conditions on any new home such as single, female owner required.

Around Germany you also have places which act as hospices for old and disabled dogs where rehoming is counted as almost impossible although yes, they do still advertise for homes.

Strays are collected by the local authorities although I have only seen one loose dog in over 10 years which had probably escaped rather than being a stray. Any dog being sold or rescued as far as I have seen have come with a pet passport (even new puppies) which means they are microchipped.

So would you count that as a "problem" to begin with?

Yes dogs are in rescues but they are certainly not overflowing and homes are frequently found. I know when looking at a specific dog from the shelter they had several prospective people looking at rehoming him. When we found that out we declined as another dog we were interested in became available when it previously taken. The local dog in question has been rehomed successfully. We ended up with Cooper who comes from outside Germany 

Looking at a German wide web page with dogs needing rescue only 5 of 13 actually are within Germany, hence the question.. why not try to "export" rescues from the UK? Some breeds are banned from importing unfortunately, such as staffies, pitbulls and english bull terriers and other areas of Germany have different rules as to "dangerous breeds" which includes things like American Bulldogs but I am sure homes could be found for others. Of course I don't know all the red tape which would potentially be involved.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Vicki said:


> And another aspect of all this is that very many of those dogs rescued from another country most likely will end up in a British rescue. In Sweden it has been very popular to "adopt" dogs from other countries since the 90:s and even though we don't have the rescue problem that you do in the UK it is a fact that very many of the "adopted" dogs gets rehomed, some several times.
> 
> This is probably because the people buying a rescue from abroad doesn't really know what they are getting themselves into. The look at a picture on the Internet and see a cute dog, but a picture doesn't say much about a dog. As someone here mentioned, these are dogs that are used to a life on the street; they don't know how to live inside, they have never seen a vaccum cleaner or even furniture, they're not toilet trained etc. Some of them will be scared and some will just be a handful to teach not to pee inside, chew on furniture etc. This WILL cause problems, because the people getting the cute dog from the picture doesn't understand that they basically are getting a puppy with sometimes serious issues.
> 
> ...


This is something that worries me too. I know of quite a few people who've taken on rescues from abroad and had real issues with them. Ones that they weren't expecting because of how the dogs were portrayed by the rescues. Not necessarily the rescues fault, they often only see them in a shelter environment and I know problems aren't always obvious there. I dunno what happens to these dogs. Some I've seen up for rehoming on facebook, some do stick with the dog and try to work through the problems, others I assume end up in the local shelters.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

_[Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin 
Too all those with who are pushing for "rescue British"... do you also only "buy British" whenever possible?

QUOTE=pearltheplank;1062599411]I do, whenever possible yes[/QUOTE]_
So do I when it comes to fruit and veg - it's not the same x


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...7217605.113380.225971857457482&type=1&theater

This old boy has been on the streets and in a public shelter his whole life, Yet the angels out there will never put him to sleep just try to help, they work purely on donations. How can you harden your heart to this??? yes there is suffering in all countries, I choose to focus my attention on Romania as it is particularly bad, if anyone has a problem with that then I pity you.


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## chez33 (Mar 30, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.452803264774339.111777.225971857457482&type=3

I could post these all night, dogs there are run over by the hundreds on a daily basis, the majority left with no help unless they are found by the volunteers.


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