# Has anyone used Bark Busters?



## I_love_Mochi

Or more specifically the one from Warrington, Runcorn, St Helens and Widnes?
I spoke to the Trainer today on the phone and he said that for a 12month course it would cost £295 but he thinks he could solve Poppy's problems in 2 sessions for a one off price of £100. He said if after the two sessions she wasn't trained then he would deduct the £100 from the price of the 12 month course. The problems are she's dog-aggressive on lead, pulling on the lead and jumping up at visitors.
My partner, who works for trading standards is sceptical of this and thinks that she definitely won't be "cured" in just 2 sessions and we will of course have to stump up more for the 12 month course. 
What do others think?
The other training centre I've contacted is Fido Dog Training Club in Chester run by Angela Pitman. She said that for an initial one to one session it would be £35 then £30 for each one to one session after that. When she's better with other dogs then she can join in the group sessions.


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## MerlinsMum

Barkbusters is a franchise, so there are widely different reports of how good (or not so good!) they are. I have heard of people becoming trainers with them with very little dog experience, so I am rather sceptical.

I would look for someoneone who is a member of the APDT and/or APBC who are organisations which can be trusted - their members will use no aversive or harsh methods.

Edite to add: Angela Pitman is an APDT member 
http://www.apdt.co.uk/trainers_area.asp?area=Cheshire


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## leashedForLife

I_love_Mochi said:


> I spoke to the [franchisee] on the phone... he said... a 12-mo course... [costs] £295 but *he thinks he could solve Poppy's problems in 2 sessions for a one off price of £100. * He said if after the two sessions she wasn't trained then he would deduct the £100 from the price of the 12 month course.


BB is supposed to offer a *lifetime warranty* on all their training - 
but of course, that assumes that U want the BB-franchisee to come back! :lol:

if U want to see what U are missing - BORROW this book thru Interlibrary Loan - 
Amazon.com: Bark Busters: Solving Your Dogs Behavioral Problems (9780895948816): Sylvia Wilson: Books

JUST DO NOT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, :lol: read it and laugh, instead! 


I_love_Mochi said:


> ...she's dog-aggro on lead, [pulls on-lead] and [jumps on] visitors.
> My partner... is skeptical... and thinks... she definitely won't be "cured" in just 2 sessions...
> we will [then] of course have to [pay] more for the 12-mo course.


i agree with the partner, :laugh: i very-much doubt that habits will change with only 2 sessions - 
and besides, i don;t like their training-tools or philosophy. (shrug) 
they use water-balloons, throw-chains, shout _*Baaahh!*_ a lot, loom over dogs, some roll or pin dogs, 
its very heavy on corrections + light on teaching, IME - i have watched sessions and was underwhelmed. *cough*



I_love_Mochi said:


> The other training centre... is Fido Dog Training Club in Chester run by Angela Pitman. ...an initial one to one session... would be £35 then £30 for each one to one session after that. When she's better with other dogs... she can join... group sessions.


this sounds much-more reasonable, and just the fact that she is APDT-uk would be very reassuring to me - i don't want my dog shouted at, or things thrown at the dog, i want B-Mod!

after all, the object is not to dump the dog into a tank of water at a fun-fair by hitting the target with a ball - 
it's to teach my dog new behavior, which requires more knowledge of dog-behavior IMO than is needed to teach that same dog, 
as a naive-learner, to sit, down, stay, recall and leave-it on cue! 

happy B-Mod, 
--- terry


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## doodles mum

Hi, which vets are you with ?

We're at a practice in Frodsham and they have referred us ~ well the dog ! ~to Sarah Heath at "Behavioural Referrals".... very expensive, but covered by pet plan
Let me know how you get on, what breed is your dog ?


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## Corinthian

leashedForLife said:


> if U want to see what U are missing - BORROW this book thru Interlibrary Loan -
> Amazon.com: Bark Busters: Solving Your Dogs Behavioral Problems (9780895948816): Sylvia Wilson: Books
> 
> JUST DO NOT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, :lol: read it and laugh, instead!


I've actually borrowed Millan's and Pattison's books from the library and returned the with liner notes (on Post-It to avoid vandalism) explaining away all the crap they write.:thumbup:


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## I_love_Mochi

Leashed For Life: Thank you so much for all the info, I most definitely will NOT be using Bark Busters if those are their "teaching methods"!

Doodles Mum: We are registered at The Laurels in Runcorn, we've thought about trying to get referred but thought that Pet Plan wouldn't cover it as she came with the problems when we adopted her. How have you found this behaviourist's training? Poppy is a cross Border Collie. It might be worth a try us trying to get her referred then, what problems does yours have?

I have also contacted Wagg Tails training school which is on the APDT list for my area but there doesn't seem to be an address on their website. I am still waiting for a reply from them. 

The earliest Angela Pitman can book me in is September, was kind of hoping to have something to be getting on with before then, but if I can't find anywhere else that can book us in sooner then I'll probably go with her. Will definitely think about the referral though.


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## leashedForLife

I_love_Mochi said:


> Leashed For Life:
> Thank you so much for all the info, I most definitely will NOT be using Bark Busters if those are their "teaching methods"!


hey, i-l-m! :--)
i went looking for the book to post the link, and was astonished to read, not ONE but Three! glowing reviews, 
:lol: one of which said it was *magic - * the only magic i can associate it with, would be bad-voodoo, 

so i posted a review of my own... 
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Bark Busters: Solving Your Dogs Behavioral Problems 
no holds barred, i would have given page-#s but had no copy to hand :001_tt2:

i cannot help but wonder, ESPECIALLY as one says, _'i don't know the author... _ whether these are planted reviews: 
family, the publisher, distributor, etc. hmmm... 
at least i SIGNED mine! 

- terry


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## leashedForLife

Corinthian said:


> I've actually borrowed Millan's and Pattison's books from the library and returned the with liner notes (on Post-It to avoid vandalism) explaining away all the crap they write. :thumbup:


_*i like it! :thumbup: good idea, i'll lay in some rainbow-colored post-its. 
thanks, cory! (hat tip) *_


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## CarolineH

Corinthian said:


> I've actually borrowed Millan's and Pattison's books from the library and returned the with liner notes (on Post-It to avoid vandalism) explaining away all the crap they write.:thumbup:


:lol: Love it! :lol:


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## MerlinsMum

leashedForLife said:


> _*i like it! :thumbup: good idea, i'll lay in some rainbow-colored post-its.
> thanks, cory! (hat tip) *_


I've heard of some trainers/behaviourists secretly yearning to go into bookstores and slip their business cards into some books, with a note: "Call me when it all goes wrong"..... :thumbup:


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## Kebars9

Hi I love Mochi

Have you tried Erica Peachey and her business partner? They operate from West Kirby and Warrington. I have met Erica several times and been to her training classes - she's excellent. Have a look at their site.. Erica is in the Wirral and Carri is in Warrington.
Erica Peachey and Carri Westgarth Consultants in Animal Behaviour - Home Page

Good luck.


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## doodles mum

I_love_Mochi said:


> Leashed For Life: Thank you so much for all the info, I most definitely will NOT be using Bark Busters if those are their "teaching methods"!
> 
> Doodles Mum: We are registered at The Laurels in Runcorn, we've thought about trying to get referred but thought that Pet Plan wouldn't cover it as she came with the problems when we adopted her. How have you found this behaviourist's training? Poppy is a cross Border Collie. It might be worth a try us trying to get her referred then, what problems does yours have?
> 
> We're at Ashcroft vets in Frodsam, you can always call pet plan to ask if they would cover the costs.
> We had a "first aid" visit a few weeks ago, but have to wait until 6th August for Sarah Heath to come.
> We've also had a visit from a couple of wonderful people from "Doodle Trust"... there is help out there so go and grab it :thumbup:
> Our dog guards things... which has made him snappy with us & other dogs. We've managed to get through lots of his problems, he no longer guards food, or furniture  we're now working on his behaviour with other dogs.
> We had a visit last night from someone who brought an older dog with them, He snapped at her.... but she soon put him in his place :lol:
> I'm sure with help you'll soon be enjoying every moment with your puppy, let me know how you get on......
> Our dog has always bullied your friends dog, Cedar, she is such a sweetie, but he just lunges at her ..... ask Cedars mum... she'll know who we are ha ha ha


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## I_love_Mochi

I called the vets today and they said I just need to take Poppy in and the vet will write a letter for her to be referred  so I need to sort out a time with them when my OH can also go as he'll want to be there too and hopefully get sorted out.

Doodles Mum: how funny that you know Lisa too, I may even bump into you while we're out sometime then  I know, Cedar is the cutest softest dog ever (apart from Poppy )

Thanks Kebars9 I will have a look at that link too


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## leashedForLife

doodles mum said:


> We had a "first aid" visit a few weeks ago, but have to wait until 6th August for Sarah Heath to come.
> 
> We've also had *a visit from a couple of wonderful people from "Doodle Trust"...
> there is help out there so go and grab it* :thumbup:


hey, D-mum! :--) 
i do not want to paint the Doodle-Trust folks as in any way ignorant or punitive or what-have-U, as i have absolutely zero knowledge of them... 
and for all i know, the volunteers from Doodle-Trust are all APDT-members with credentials like wallpaper, 

i only want to caution readers that *well-intentioned advice from multiple sources, who may range from Fennell-listeners to BSci-Behaviorists to CM/DW armchair-fans,* may not do good - 
in fact, can greatly exacerbate problem-behaviors.

there is nothing wrong with getting info from many, many sources! 
in fact, i encourage it - but just be sure that all of it is compatible, from science-based sources, and humane.

mixing a crazy-salad of punishing techniques or intimidation [looming, rolling, pinning, jerks on the leash...] with a B-Mod protocol like *relaxation protocol from karen-overall, DVM* would be disastrous, but a NILIF of Sit-Before-Getting-Anything would be perfectly safe, and gives an anxious dog an excellent, safe, structural pattern of How Life Works. 

i am not casting cold-water on wide-ranging searches for helpful tools or techniques, only cautioning against less-than-reputable sources and harsh handling, or aversive-tools. 
in the spirit of safety, 
--- terry


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## doodles mum

I_love_Mochi said:


> I called the vets today and they said I just need to take Poppy in and the vet will write a letter for her to be referred  so I need to sort out a time with them when my OH can also go as he'll want to be there too and hopefully get sorted out.
> 
> Doodles Mum: how funny that you know Lisa too, I may even bump into you while we're out sometime then  I know, Cedar is the cutest softest dog ever (apart from Poppy )
> 
> Thanks Kebars9 I will have a look at that link too


Its my daughter that knows Lisa....hockey !

good luck at the vets :thumbup:


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## doodles mum

leashedForLife said:


> hey, D-mum! :--)
> i do not want to paint the Doodle-Trust folks as in any way ignorant or punitive or what-have-U, as i have absolutely zero knowledge of them...
> and for all i know, the volunteers from Doodle-Trust are all APDT-members with credentials like wallpaper,
> 
> i only want to caution readers that *well-intentioned advice from multiple sources, who may range from Fennell-listeners to BSci-Behaviorists to CM/DW armchair-fans,* may not do good -
> in fact, can greatly exacerbate problem-behaviors.
> 
> there is nothing wrong with getting info from many, many sources!
> in fact, i encourage it - but just be sure that all of it is compatible, from science-based sources, and humane.
> 
> mixing a crazy-salad of punishing techniques or intimidation [looming, rolling, pinning, jerks on the leash...] with a B-Mod protocol like *relaxation protocol from karen-overall, DVM* would be disastrous, but a NILIF of Sit-Before-Getting-Anything would be perfectly safe, and gives an anxious dog an excellent, safe, structural pattern of How Life Works.
> 
> i am not casting cold-water on wide-ranging searches for helpful tools or techniques, only cautioning against less-than-reputable sources and harsh handling, or aversive-tools.
> in the spirit of safety,
> --- terry


I am a bit concerned about this post.....

Doodle Trust DO NOT use aversive techniques

perhaps you may wish to look at their web site, it may just give you a small insight into the fantastic work they do

as you say you have NO knowledge of them


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## Terr

There's a dog trainer up here in Scotland who swears he will cure your dog of pulling on the lead in under an hour for a one-off fee of £180.

Personally I would MUCH rather buy a headcollar, a good lead and just be patient with my dog. Dog training is as much about teaching them as learning from them and the bond you create while training is something no amount of money can buy.

It might be beneficial for you to find group training sessions. Weekly ones are good in my opinion as your dog will meet strange new dogs as well as people. It's helped mine in only 3 weeks (3 hours). The headcollar helps a massive amount too as long as they don't claw out their own eyes trying to get it off.


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## I_love_Mochi

She's had head collars (Pets At Home's own, Halti and Gentle Leader) since we got her in September, she just pulls regardless of wearing them, and it must be so uncomfortable for her, her eyes were getting irritated and she rubbed all her fur off around her eyes at one point because the Gentle Leader was irritating her face so much  I walk her on a mekuti now which also did not work for us as she would still pull that much but I find it a nice secure harness so still use it just using the back ring. I bought the Halti Harness but the medium was too big for her and the small was WAY too small. The Lupi non pull harness did not work.

I have been patient with her, 10 months of patient with her but we are just getting nowhere and feel I need professional help so that walks become a pleasure and not something to dread. 

I've booked her in for Wednesday anyway to see if we can get her referred.


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## sue&harvey

I_love_Mochi said:


> She's had head collars (Pets At Home's own, Halti and Gentle Leader) since we got her in September, she just pulls regardless of wearing them, and it must be so uncomfortable for her, her eyes were getting irritated and she rubbed all her fur off around her eyes at one point because the Gentle Leader was irritating her face so much  I walk her on a mekuti now which also did not work for us as she would still pull that much but I find it a nice secure harness so still use it just using the back ring. I bought the Halti Harness but the medium was too big for her and the small was WAY too small. The Lupi non pull harness did not work.
> 
> I have been patient with her, 10 months of patient with her but we are just getting nowhere and feel I need professional help so that walks become a pleasure and not something to dread.
> 
> I've booked her in for Wednesday anyway to see if we can get her referred.


Can I ask how long you tried the Mekuti for ( both ends attached appropiatly)

Just that I use the Mekuti and its been a god send. This and clicker training, walks are now a pleasure. He can and does still pull if he sees another dog, but much easier to control. the biggest thing with this is the handler needs to learn and took us a while to get the hang of it.


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## Terr

I hope all goes well. Did you book with BB in the end?

If you've still got the Halti collar, a little trick that I've developed is to to put the collar on, attach it to the neck collar and then not attach my lead to the Halti but instead attach it to the neck collar like you normally would. I don't get as much control but it seems to calm my dog down a lot for some reason. I also tied a knot in the Halti's securer clip (the bit that hangs under their chin) just to make it a bit shorter so that when I tugged on the lead, it would move the Halti itself a little bit. This also works wonders if she's a wriggler. Mine wriggles out of his Halti if I just attach the lead to the Halti's ring. Obviously go see the trainer but maybe all is not lost and you can still benefit a bit from having a head collar once she's a bit better at walking on lead? Good luck to you, I hope things get sorted out swiftly and both of you can start enjoying your daily walks. :thumbup:


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## I_love_Mochi

Ooh no not gone with BB after hearing their methods!  I'll go with who the Vet recommends. Hopefully Sarah Heath as she covers our area too.

We've not got the Halti anymore as she chewed through it after wearing it for about 10 mins and seeing another dog! She was only attached to the lead after that by the little clip. I may as well have just dropped the £10 note down the drain  Thing is she did seem to be walking beautifully on it until then but her being able to chew it under stress put me off getting another one. Maybe she might be better on that once she knows what to do with other dogs around. I get the feeling that if she wasn't pulling she wouldn't react as much. She's started barking at the construction workers who are working on the Runcorn bridge round by where I take her, but am wondering if it's the yellow hi vis jackets they wear, as she always seemed to take more interest in anyone in a high vis vest, or whether it's because she sees them every day and thinks they are "friends" now as the men often talk to me when she barks at them and I'm apologising and saying "Every day! No I think it's your jacket! Ha ha!" they must think I'm a lunatic, walking my lunatic dog! But back to my original point when she's on a looser lead she doesn't care about the construction workers. 

Sue: I bought the Mekuti after seeing you'd got it, if you remember, I tried it for about a week I think, sometimes if she's been good I'll put her on it and she'll be ok on it, but that's usually on the way back from a walk. My OH says the same, she's a loony on the way and calm and loose lead on the way back. Yes I ALWAYS praise her when she's on a loose lead, if I've got the clicker I'll C+T too but it's like it's all erased from her memory come afternoon walkies.


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## sue&harvey

I_love_Mochi said:


> Ooh no not gone with BB after hearing their methods!  I'll go with who the Vet recommends. Hopefully Sarah Heath as she covers our area too.
> 
> We've not got the Halti anymore as she chewed through it after wearing it for about 10 mins and seeing another dog! She was only attached to the lead after that by the little clip. I may as well have just dropped the £10 note down the drain  Thing is she did seem to be walking beautifully on it until then but her being able to chew it under stress put me off getting another one. Maybe she might be better on that once she knows what to do with other dogs around. I get the feeling that if she wasn't pulling she wouldn't react as much. She's started barking at the construction workers who are working on the Runcorn bridge round by where I take her, but am wondering if it's the yellow hi vis jackets they wear, as she always seemed to take more interest in anyone in a high vis vest, or whether it's because she sees them every day and thinks they are "friends" now as the men often talk to me when she barks at them and I'm apologising and saying "Every day! No I think it's your jacket! Ha ha!" they must think I'm a lunatic, walking my lunatic dog! But back to my original point when she's on a looser lead she doesn't care about the construction workers.
> 
> Sue: I bought the Mekuti after seeing you'd got it, if you remember, I tried it for about a week I think, sometimes if she's been good I'll put her on it and she'll be ok on it, but that's usually on the way back from a walk. My OH says the same, she's a loony on the way and calm and loose lead on the way back. Yes I ALWAYS praise her when she's on a loose lead, if I've got the clicker I'll C+T too but it's like it's all erased from her memory come afternoon walkies.


Ahh short term memory me  soz. Fortunately Harvey is brill on his. We have had a few loopy moments but much better now.

Hope you find a soloution soon


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## CarolineH

If a dog behaves like a loony on a walk, stop walking, stand still, look away from it and totally ignore it. Only when the dog settles should you continue walking. Most dogs get the message after a while, that their behaviour makes you stop!!!  This may make for some boring walks at first but it does work if you persevere, even for a few weeks if it takes that long. Continuing to walk with a pulling, frantic dog only rewards the behaviour and gets the dog exactly what it wants.


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## leashedForLife

doodles mum said:


> I am a bit concerned about this post... Doodle Trust DO NOT use aversive techniques
> 
> perhaps you may wish to look at their web site, it may just give you a small insight into the fantastic work they do
> as you say you have NO knowledge of them


yes, D-mum, i did say that i have zero-knowledge of them  and i was, U will note, speaking generally - 
only saying that *some sources [TV-trainers, celebrity-owners, the next-door neighbor...] may offer advice 
that is well-intentioned, but not necessarily 'good'. *

i did not *accuse* Doodle-Trust of being ignorant, hard-handed, etc - as i said, they may ALL be APDT-uk trainers, 
or even CAAB, for all i know! i am only saying to please choose ones sources carefully.

happy training, 
--- terry


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## Badgers

I_love_Mochi said:


> Ooh no not gone with BB after hearing their methods!  I'll go with who the Vet recommends. Hopefully Sarah Heath as she covers our area too.
> 
> We've not got the Halti anymore as she chewed through it after wearing it for about 10 mins and seeing another dog! She was only attached to the lead after that by the little clip. I may as well have just dropped the £10 note down the drain  Thing is she did seem to be walking beautifully on it until then but her being able to chew it under stress put me off getting another one. Maybe she might be better on that once she knows what to do with other dogs around. I get the feeling that if she wasn't pulling she wouldn't react as much. She's started barking at the construction workers who are working on the Runcorn bridge round by where I take her, but am wondering if it's the yellow hi vis jackets they wear, as she always seemed to take more interest in anyone in a high vis vest, or whether it's because she sees them every day and thinks they are "friends" now as the men often talk to me when she barks at them and I'm apologising and saying "Every day! No I think it's your jacket! Ha ha!" they must think I'm a lunatic, walking my lunatic dog! But back to my original point when she's on a looser lead she doesn't care about the construction workers.
> 
> Sue: I bought the Mekuti after seeing you'd got it, if you remember, I tried it for about a week I think, sometimes if she's been good I'll put her on it and she'll be ok on it, but that's usually on the way back from a walk. My OH says the same, she's a loony on the way and calm and loose lead on the way back. Yes I ALWAYS praise her when she's on a loose lead, if I've got the clicker I'll C+T too but it's like it's all erased from her memory come afternoon walkies.


My dog had separation anxiety and out of desperation and relocation to a new country where I did not know anyone to help me, I grabbed Bark Busters as they seemed to have the answers.

I am very dissapointed with Bark Busters. I paid £295 for the one year maintenance package. At first the impression was very good but the techniques was a bit harsh. The dogs reacted very negative to the water squirting, the "bah" and especially the throwing pillows. My one dog was really in a bad place during this training. The first consultation was fine and then there were 2 active appointments after that as a follow up. My dog got worse on the treatment and the other one was scared all the time. When the water bombs were recommended I was very uneasy and the dogs ran frantically around each time a water bomb was thrown. That did not work. Then I was told to take their food and to scatter it all over the garden to make them work for their food. This was chaotic. After trying everything and keeping a logbook this did not work. We tried to call the therapist which eventually responded with sms's and never responded again or made contact again. We have tried this training for 3 months with no success and £295 later. The ending was not good as my dog just became worse as time went by, with a trainer not responding.

I am sorry but BB is not good and their trainers really have very limited knowledge. I obtained more information from buying books and reading articles in the end. I beleive that there are VERY good and experienced trainers and behaviourists out in the UK and if I knew better I would not have gone with BB. Am really very dissapointed.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab

I_love_Mochi said:


> S*he's had head collars (Pets At Home's own, Halti and Gentle Leader) since we got her in September, she just pulls regardless of wearing them*, and it must be so uncomfortable for her, her eyes were getting irritated and she rubbed all her fur off around her eyes at one point because the Gentle Leader was irritating her face so much  I walk her on a mekuti now which also did not work for us as she would still pull that much but I find it a nice secure harness so still use it just using the back ring. I bought the Halti Harness but the medium was too big for her and the small was WAY too small. The Lupi non pull harness did not work.
> 
> I have been patient with her, 10 months of patient with her but we are just getting nowhere and feel I need professional help so that walks become a pleasure and not something to dread.
> 
> I've booked her in for Wednesday anyway to see if we can get her referred.


When none of these worked for Dex, I got the Dogmatic as a last resort - it is superb. Definitely worth a try while you're waiting for the trainer etc. If you email the team at Dogmatic for sizing advice they will help you as it's vital with this brand.

Re trainers:

When I first rehomed Dex there were several issues; he snapped and went to bite us a lot, walking him was a nightmare, and a few other things. The rescue he was from recommended a trainer to me - and the trainer then told me that he offered a 'whole afternoon' for a one off fee of £100....

I was so desperate, I agreed. The trainer did help a bit but that one afternoon (or rather three hours!) did NOT 'solve' the problems (indeed, how could it?) and ultimately I phoned the trainer and explained my disastisfaction and he returned for another session, free of charge.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: be wary of ANYONE offering to 'fix' your dog in a one off session.


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## leashedForLife

Badgers said:


> I am very dissapointed with Bark Busters. I paid £295 for the one year maintenance package.
> At first the impression was very good but the techniques was a bit harsh. The dogs reacted very negative
> to the water squirting, the "bah" and especially the throwing pillows. My one dog was really in a bad place
> during this training. The first consultation was fine and then there were 2 active appointments after that
> as a follow up. My dog got worse on the treatment and the other one was scared all the time.
> 
> When the water bombs were recommended I was very uneasy and the dogs ran frantically around each time
> a water bomb was thrown. That did not work. Then I was told to take their food and to scatter it all over
> the garden to make them work for their food. This was chaotic. After trying everything and keeping a logbook
> this did not work.
> 
> We tried to call the therapist which eventually responded with sms's and never responded again or made
> contact again. We have tried this training for 3 months with no success and £295 later. The ending was not good
> as my dog just became worse as time went by, with a trainer not responding.
> 
> I am sorry but BB is not good and their trainers really have very limited knowledge. I obtained more information
> from buying books and reading articles in the end. I beleive that there are VERY good and experienced trainers
> & behaviourists out in the UK and if I knew better I would not have gone with BB. Am really very dissapointed.


i'm sorry U had an awful experience, & even more-sorry that the dogs had a terrible experience - 
but thank-U for sharing it here, as it may help someone else avoid something similar. :thumbsup:


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## newfiesmum

Badgers said:


> My dog had separation anxiety and out of desperation and relocation to a new country where I did not know anyone to help me, I grabbed Bark Busters as they seemed to have the answers.
> 
> I am very dissapointed with Bark Busters. I paid £295 for the one year maintenance package. At first the impression was very good but the techniques was a bit harsh. The dogs reacted very negative to the water squirting, the "bah" and especially the throwing pillows. My one dog was really in a bad place during this training. The first consultation was fine and then there were 2 active appointments after that as a follow up. My dog got worse on the treatment and the other one was scared all the time. When the water bombs were recommended I was very uneasy and the dogs ran frantically around each time a water bomb was thrown. That did not work. Then I was told to take their food and to scatter it all over the garden to make them work for their food. This was chaotic. After trying everything and keeping a logbook this did not work. We tried to call the therapist which eventually responded with sms's and never responded again or made contact again. We have tried this training for 3 months with no success and £295 later. The ending was not good as my dog just became worse as time went by, with a trainer not responding.
> 
> I am sorry but BB is not good and their trainers really have very limited knowledge. I obtained more information from buying books and reading articles in the end. I beleive that there are VERY good and experienced trainers and behaviourists out in the UK and if I knew better I would not have gone with BB. Am really very dissapointed.


There are some very experience and qualified trainers and behaviourist in the Uk, but you will not find them working with Barkbusters, or any big franchise for that matter.

BB charge £18,000 for a franchise, which they will sell to anyone. I think their "training" course is 2 weeks, then off you go, you are qualified.

How anyone expects to stop separation anxiety by throwing water bombs and the like is quite beyond me.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience and ever sorrier for your poor dogs. Pity you didn't find this forum first, or you would have saved yourself a lot of heartache and nearly £300.

There is a long sticky on separation anxiety; read that through when you have time to digest it all and I wish you well with your dogs.


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## Ahemin

I know this is a historic post but I thought I should share my personal experience.

I had an Akita, bitch at the time she was a year old, her history was I bought her from a farm where she wasn't disciplined but allowed to go hunt rabbits up until I bought her at 12 weeks old. 

I had loved the Akita and still do, but mine even as a pup of 12 wks showed severe signs of aggression with other dogs, not even to smaller dogs but my cousin had 2 male Akitas adult and she attacked them,no she was not in any danger and my cousins Akitas kind of let her rule, my curium stances changed and I had to move back to my north west England with my parents, by then she was 12 months old showing signs of aggression towards anything that wasn't me. 

My parents had to 2 border collies the same age as her and she loved one of them as the one she loved absolutely submitted to her, the other she pinned down on many occasions, and other dogs. My Nikita was a huge female and full pedigree, and the spit of her dad Bentley in NW England (stecall akita's), and in no way an I slating their breeding, as it was the mothers pups I got. Nikita was the spitting image of Bentley however her character wasn't as reputed. 

Anyway she as I stated displayed early signed of aggression, and I at my wits end thought to go with a professional dog trainer.. Dog busters...

My course cost in total £315, I bought a lead and naughty bad inc of this price. The woman representative came out and appeared to to book work advised me on. Diet to put Nikita on the 'natural food' feed her like a pack animal, which would be great of you had a naturally submissive dog, however mine wasn't and the one hour she spent with me basically telling me how she had 4 dogs (all classical good behaviour dogs) how in one session she taught Nikita to sit and stay, which (she already knew) then leaving stated she had made a change in our lives and to contact at anytime.

My problem was this I went asking on professional training against dog aggression, and I got for £315 a lesson on how to teach her to sit and stay, stating that I would be taught further on.

3 years later, I have heard nothing from the Barkbusters located WN4. After 4 phone calls a wk I made with no response, and having my dog put to sleep (I am not blaming Barkbusters) I think if you read this review at least please get a real dog trainer and not a franchise of people owning a few dogs thinking they can train them. Xx


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## leashedForLife

Ahemin said:


> I had an Akita bitch... I bought her from a farm where she wasn't disciplined but allowed to go hunt rabbits...
> until I bought her at 12 weeks old / 3-months age.
> 
> I... loved [her] & still do, but... even [at 3-MO, she] showed severe signs of aggression with other dogs, not [only]
> smaller dogs but my cousin's 2 adult-male Akitas... she attacked them - she was in [no] danger and my cousin's
> Akitas... let her rule; my circumstances changed & I had to move back... with my parents, by then she was
> [a year old], & [showed] aggression towards anything [or anyone] that wasn't me.
> 
> My parents had 2 yearling BCs, she loved one of them [who] absolutely submitted to her, the other she pinned down
> on many occasions, [as well as] other dogs.
> 
> My Nikita was a huge female... the spit of her dad Bentley... (stecall akitas), in no way am I [criticizing their] breeding,
> it was the mother's pups I got. Nikita was the spitting image of Bentley however her character wasn't as [claimed].
> 
> ...she... displayed early... aggression, and I [hired] a professional dog trainer: Bark-busters.
> 
> My course cost in total £315, I bought a lead and naughty bad inc of this price. The woman representative came out
> & appeared to [use the] book [*??? - guessing*] to advise me... a diet to put Nikita on the 'natural food',
> [to] feed her like a pack animal, [& so on] - great of you have a naturally submissive dog, however mine wasn't
> & the... hour she spent... basically telling me [about her own] 4 dogs (all [classically well-behaved] dogs),
> how in one session she taught Nikita to sit & stay (which she already knew) -- then [while] leaving, she said she'd
> "made a change in our lives", & to contact [her] at anytime.
> 
> ...I [asked for] professional [help with] dog aggression, &... for £315 [i got] a lesson on how to teach her to sit & stay,
> [with the promise that] I'd be taught [more] further on [guessing U mean *'later'?]*.
> 
> 3 years later, I've heard nothing from Barkbusters located in WN4.
> After 4 phone calls a wk I made with no response, & my dog [being euthanized] --- I'm not blaming Barkbusters
> [for her death], ...if you read this review... please get a real dog-trainer & [don't hire] a franchise [trainer],
> people [who've] owned a few dogs & think they can train [any dog].
> - Xx


my experiences, NOT as a client but as a spectator, have been similar:

- BB-franchisees work from a manual.
If there's no set protocol for a given problem-behavior, the franchisees i've seen don't know what to do.
They need an outline or a recipe - they don't have an overall grasp of either learning theory for all species, 
nor dogs & dog-behavior. They're working from a repair manual, but they're not good mechanics & don't understand
engines, frames & suspension, the electrical system, etc, etc. *[IMO & OME, of course.]*

- BB as a company hires "dog lovers", not trainers.
They used to have a page on their website that stated frankly & clearly that they didn't want "dog trainers" - 
they wanted folks who "loved dogs". It also outlined the course [3 whole weeks  ], the cost [high!],
& the outcome: U buy territory rights to Ur local area, & no one can compete with U there.

I simply can't imagine how anyone could shove sufficient lectures into a 21-day period to fully prepare a novice
not only to TEACH CUED BEHAVIORS ['train'] but to FIX PROBLEM BEHAVIORS [modify behavior]. Even if they ran
classes 20-hours of every 24, with 8-hrs of lecture & 8-hrs of hands-on practice daily, 4 hours total to eat,
bathe, use the toilet, etc, & the 4-hrs of each day that remained were all the sleep students could have, i still
don't think they could shove that much know-how into a novice's brain in less than one month.

BB will no longer admit how long their course lasts - except to franchise-prospects.
Information on cost, etc, is also for prospective franchisees only.

If U want to learn more about them, BORROW THIS BOOK from Ur local library:
Bark Busters: Solving Your Dogs Behavioral Problems: Sylvia Wilson: 9780895948816: Amazon.com: Books

*full disclaimer:*
i posted a [damning, :lol: ] review of this book, as i'd not only read it cover to cover, i quoted some paragraphs
on the USA-apdt trainers' list on-line, & we all were alternately laughing like hyenas or wincing in sympathy
with the dogs, depending on which story Ms Wilson was narrating.
.
.


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## newfiesmum

leashedForLife said:


> my experiences, NOT as a client but as a spectator, have been similar:
> 
> - BB-franchisees work from a manual.
> If there's no set protocol for a given problem-behavior, the franchisees i've seen don't know what to do.
> They need an outline or a recipe - they don't have an overall grasp of either learning theory for all species,
> nor dogs & dog-behavior. They're working from a repair manual, but they're not good mechanics & don't understand
> engines, frames & suspension, the electrical system, etc, etc. *[IMO & OME, of course.]*
> 
> - BB as a company hires "dog lovers", not trainers.
> They used to have a page on their website that stated frankly & clearly that they didn't want "dog trainers" -
> they wanted folks who "loved dogs". It also outlined the course [3 whole weeks  ], the cost [high!],
> & the outcome: U buy territory rights to Ur local area, & no one can compete with U there.
> 
> I simply can't imagine how anyone could shove sufficient lectures into a 21-day period to fully prepare a novice
> not only to TEACH CUED BEHAVIORS ['train'] but to FIX PROBLEM BEHAVIORS [modify behavior]. Even if they ran
> classes 20-hours of every 24, with 8-hrs of lecture & 8-hrs of hands-on practice daily, 4 hours total to eat,
> bathe, use the toilet, etc, & the 4-hrs of each day that remained were all the sleep students could have, i still
> don't think they could shove that much know-how into a novice's brain in less than one month.
> 
> BB will no longer admit how long their course lasts - except to franchise-prospects.
> Information on cost, etc, is also for prospective franchisees only.
> 
> If U want to learn more about them, BORROW THIS BOOK from Ur local library:
> Bark Busters: Solving Your Dogs Behavioral Problems: Sylvia Wilson: 9780895948816: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> *full disclaimer:*
> i posted a [damning, :lol: ] review of this book, as i'd not only read it cover to cover, i quoted some paragraphs
> on the USA-apdt trainers' list on-line, & we all were alternately laughing like hyenas or wincing in sympathy
> with the dogs, depending on which story Ms Wilson was narrating.
> .
> .


Terry, I just had to go and read your review, which is written in your normal, inimitable and 'polite' fashion!! How anyone can think that shouting at a dog is going to make it stop barking is a puzzle, and I would think would make it bark even more.

Today my two found some bread that some idiot had left all over the playing field and wouldn't come away. I walked off down the path calling them and eventually Ferdie came running, deciding that losing me was far more scary than giving up the bread. The woman I was walking with asked: is he expecting to get told off? Yeah, right. Like he would be running to me if he was! Absolutely hilarious. I did point out that if you tell a dog off when he comes back you will never get him back again, but I thought it was rather obvious by the way he was racing to me.

A bit off topic, but the same sort of ignorance really as shouting at a dog to stop him barking.


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## leashedForLife

newfiesmum said:


> ... How anyone can think that shouting at a dog is going to make it stop barking is a puzzle,
> and I would think would make it bark even more.


:lol: precisely the group consensus, on the USA-apdt trainers' list.  Amazing coincidence,
how great minds all run to the same thought, innit?


newfiesmum said:


> Today my two found some bread that some idiot had left all over the playing field and wouldn't come away.
> I walked off down the path calling them and eventually Ferdie came running, deciding that losing me was far
> more scary than giving up the bread. The woman I was walking with asked: is he expecting to get told off?
> 
> Yeah, right. Like he'd be running to me if he was! Absolutely hilarious. I did point out that if you tell a dog off
> when he comes back, you'll never get him back again, but I thought it was rather obvious by the way
> he was racing to me.
> 
> A bit off topic, but the same sort of ignorance really as shouting at a dog to stop him barking.


Definitely! :thumbsup:


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## Llew

I realise too that this is an old thread, but I just want to say thank you for it.

I was about to shell out £350 to BarkBusters and thank goodness for google and finding this thread.

I've now gone to APDT and found a proper trainer that specializes in behaviour.

Thank you.


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## newfiesmum

Llew said:


> I realise too that this is an old thread, but I just want to say thank you for it.
> 
> I was about to shell out £350 to BarkBusters and thank goodness for google and finding this thread.
> 
> I've now gone to APDT and found a proper trainer that specializes in behaviour.
> 
> Thank you.


So glad to be of help. It gives me and I am sure others comfort to know that this thread will save someone's dog from even more trauma at the hands of these idiots. Just because something is big, doesn't make it better. You are always better with the lone guy who has a reputation to keep up. Good luck


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## Rahoulb

Llew said:


> I realise too that this is an old thread, but I just want to say thank you for it.
> 
> I was about to shell out £350 to BarkBusters and thank goodness for google and finding this thread.
> 
> I've now gone to APDT and found a proper trainer that specializes in behaviour.
> 
> Thank you.


Just a quick recommendation: I went to see Jim Greenwood at the weekend and he amazed me; he understood Moz's problems within five minutes and gave me easy to follow strategies for dealing with them (of course, many of the issues being down to how I was handling things).

I noticed you are in Lincolnshire - and he's holding a few workshops there: JandJ Greenwood Dog Training | events

Thoroughly recommended.


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## Ceiling Kitty

doodles mum said:


> Hi, which vets are you with ?
> 
> We're at a practice in Frodsham and they have referred us ~ well the dog ! ~to Sarah Heath at "Behavioural Referrals".... very expensive, but covered by pet plan
> Let me know how you get on, what breed is your dog ?


Patricia Connolly at Woodcroft Referrals in Cheadle Hulme is very good as well. Sarah Heath is super but often has a very long waiting list.


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## Sarahliz100

Shoshannah said:


> Patricia Connolly at Woodcroft Referrals in Cheadle Hulme is very good as well. Sarah Heath is super but often has a very long waiting list.


We were referred to behavioural referrals. We saw them the next week (although I think it might have been a cancellation slot). We didn't see Sarah Heath though, we saw her colleague. But they've been fab, really good phone/email support as well as visits, and although expensive petplan kindly paid for it


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