# !st Results with API MASTER test kit



## d8193

After having taken all your advice, ordered a API master kit,via. Amazon, Approx £20 against my local Maidenhead store £35 !!! (some price match)

Anyway Results, which I would like your further advice on please;
Ammonia 0 ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, pH 7.6ppm

I do a 25% wtr. change weekly, except for last week when I did a 50% change.

Can you point me in the right direction please.
Thanks so much


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## magpie

Your nitrate reading is a little odd! The readings for ammonia & nitrite suggest that the tank is cycled (which is great), but in a cycled tank you ought to have a reading for nitrate really.

Did you give the bottles a really good shake before doing the tests? As it's a new kit, you may have to give them a good bang on a hard surface (especially the 2nd nitrate bottle) to make sure that the contents are mixed properly. I'd probably re-test, just to be sure 

The only other thing that stands out really, is that your pH is a bit on the high side for your neon tetras. They much prefer soft, acidic water and therefore may not do too well in your tank, just fyi.


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## Peapet

It's really important to follow instructions for nitrAte test and shake the bottle hard to mix the contents. You should get a reading but this isn't as important as nitrIte and ammonia which are the most toxic. 

Have you tested the ph of your tap water?
If its the same, your neons might not be happy as they prefer acid water


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## NaomiM

Agreed that neons prefer acidic water, but having said that, I have mine in pH8 and so far they seem to be thriving! They were raised locally in similar pH, which helps I think.


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## d8193

Thanks for all your replies,

Readings on *Tap water* are, pH 7.6 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0

2nd readings on aquarium water are, pH 6.6, Ammonia o, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0
only difference is the pH down from 7.6

Dont know what the signifigance between the tap and aquarium water is, as the readings seem to be so close ?

Look forward to your further help, and thanks again, you really have been a big help.

Ps
I have given the 2nd Nitrate bottle a "good shake/etc"


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## magpie

Hmm. Well as your tap water nitrates are zero, it's possible that the 50% water change that you did last week has taken your tank nitrates to zero too. It's also possible that your tank isn't cycled yet, but again that the 50% water change has taken all your readings down to zero.

The fact that your tank pH is less than your tap water suggests to me that you have soft water, and I know from painful experience that a tank will struggle to cycle with a low pH. When I moved to a soft water area, I had major problems with my goldfish tank as the cycle crashed and I couldn't get it going again until I artificially increased the hardness of the water.

If you don't mind, could you test the pH of your tap water after leaving it to sit for 24 hours? It might also be worth either buying a KH/GH test kit, or checking on your water suppliers website to see what the hardness of your water is.

At the moment at least, there is nothing to worry about  But I'd do a full set of tests again right before you do your next water change, just to see if any of the readings have built up over the week.


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## d8193

Thanks magpie, will do, and let you know the results.
Thank god your sticking with it :thumbup:


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## d8193

magpie said:


> Hmm. Well as your tap water nitrates are zero, it's possible that the 50% water change that you did last week has taken your tank nitrates to zero too. It's also possible that your tank isn't cycled yet, but again that the 50% water change has taken all your readings down to zero.
> 
> The fact that your tank pH is less than your tap water suggests to me that you have soft water, and I know from painful experience that a tank will struggle to cycle with a low pH. When I moved to a soft water area, I had major problems with my goldfish tank as the cycle crashed and I couldn't get it going again until I artificially increased the hardness of the water.
> 
> If you don't mind, could you test the pH of your tap water after leaving it to sit for 24 hours? It might also be worth either buying a KH/GH test kit, or checking on your water suppliers website to see what the hardness of your water is.
> 
> At the moment at least, there is nothing to worry about  But I'd do a full set of tests again right before you do your next water change, just to see if any of the readings have built up over the week.


Phoned our Wtr. Co. they say our water is* Soft*, (if this means anything "average" hardness 52, hardness 20.8)

Have taken a sample of tap wtr. will let you know the result tomorrow am.

Did a further aquarium wtr. test this morning, results are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.0 (was 7.6)

Hope Im going in the right direction !?


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## Peapet

Properly Maintaining the pH in a Freshwater Aquarium | RateMyFishTank.com found this you might want to read. 
Like magpie said it sounds like your ph is crashing because of soft water.

Have you got any wood in your tank?
From reading, it's seems you're going to have to do small water changes (10-15%) to try and keep the ph up closer to your tap water. If you change too much and the ph is so different, it's going to cause too much stress to the fish.

I haven't got any direct experience of this. Hopefully magpie will be back later to advise further.


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## NaomiM

I think I've read that putting a small amount of coral sand in the filter can buffer the pH. I'm not 100% sure, but it might be worth looking into. Or putting some shells or cuttlefish in the tank is another thing I've heard.

If you try any of these though, start with very small amounts and test regularly, as you don't want the pH to swing wildly up again, especially with neons.


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## magpie

I think all I would do at the moment is keep testing the tank water and keep a record of the readings so that you can see how your pH in particular, changes. Obviously, the neons would actually prefer the water to be more acidic, but as Peapet and Naomi have said, constant swings in pH will be very stressful for them.

You may end up having to add something to the tank to buffer the pH and keep it stable, or you may not. For whatever reason, while my goldfish tank crashed and the pH dropped down to 6 (very bad for goldies), my tropical tank remained absolutely fine and maintains a steady pH of 6.8-7. I have to add bicarbonate of soda (to increase the KH) and epsom salts (to increase the GH) to my goldfish tank at every water change, yet I don't have to do anything with the tropical tank ! Though from what your water supplier has said, it looks like your water is even softer than mine!



d8193 said:


> Thanks magpie, will do, and let you know the results.
> Thank god your sticking with it :thumbup:


Well, I lost one of my goldfish when the tank crashed, and if it hadn't been for some nice people on another forum I might have lost the others as well. I've only just started to learn about this stuff myself, so I don't fully understand it yet, but I'll do my best to help you out, and I'm sure the others will too


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## nickmcmechan

Dont muck about with the ph in your tank, it's not necessary and will only lead to bad things. 

Neons will be fine at those ph levels


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## magpie

I think the cause for concern was the fact that the pH dropped from 7.6 to 6.6 over the course of a day. Everything that I've ever read suggests that a fast, dramatic change like that is stressful and potentially damaging for the fish 

I'm not an expert though...


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## NaomiM

I agree with Magpie. Also, not to worry you, but if the pH was to fall much further (say down to 5), it could cause the filter bacteria to die off, which is the last thing you need at this stage. So do keep testing the pH daily, and if it continues to drop, you may need to consider a pH buffer such as the ones I mentioned.

Also, if your tap pH is much higher than your tank pH, you'll have to be careful how you do water changes to avoid stressing the fish. For instance, if your ammonia or nitrite levels warrant a 50% change, you may need to do 2 or 3 smaller changes spread out over several hours, as a 50% change will cause a big change in pH.


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## d8193

Result of tap water after standing for 24hrs pH = 7.6

Did a check this morning on Aquarium water pH = 6.8

I did check Wikipedia they say Neons ok with Ph range 6 to 7.8 
(but I must check that it remains at a constant level.)

One question re. cycling, it seems from what has been said that my tank may or may not have cycled ?

Providing the pH figure as above, remains stable, and all other figures are as they should be, *there is no need to Cycle the tank ??*

Thanks again for your advice, look forward to your further input.


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## NaomiM

I can't remember whether you have live plants or not? If you do, they may be absorbing all the nitrate, which would explain why it's reading 0.

If you don't have live plants, I have no idea why you're not getting any readings for nitrate, and you may want to keep testing for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate every day or two for a while, just to be sure it really is cycled.

Either way, if your ammonia and nitrite are constantly reading 0, then there's no need for daily water changes like you would normally need in an uncycled tank. Just continue what you're doing, partial water changes every week and regular water tests (especially for pH which should ideally be tested every day if it appears to be unstable).


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## magpie

Ditto to what Naomi has said! 

I'd definitely keep testing the tank to make sure that your ammonia/nitrite levels don't start to creep up, and to make sure that your pH doesn't change too dramatically. Other than that, I wouldn't do much else. There's definitely no need for daily water changes and if, when you're due to do a weekly water change your ammonia/nitrite readings are still 0, I'd only make it a very small water change and test the pH before and after.

At the moment all your parameters are fine though, so the fish should be fine too


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## nickmcmechan

The ph will change throughout the day in a planted tank, it's nothing to worry about. 

The op mentioned crushed coral in the filter. Leave the ph alone.


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## magpie

nickmcmechan said:


> The ph will change throughout the day in a planted tank, it's nothing to worry about.


Again, everything I've ever read suggests that anything more than a 0.2 change in pH over a 24 hour period is bad and can cause the fish to go into pH shock. Is this not true??



nickmcmechan said:


> The op mentioned crushed coral in the filter.


Lol, I must be going blind as I can't find any mention of this!

Normally I'd never recommend trying to adjust the pH in a tank, and actually no one is recommending that the op try to adjust the pH in their tank at the moment. We are simply advising to continue testing the water to keep an eye on the pH, because so far it has not been very stable.


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## Peapet

I've got soft water, ph 7.2. My cold water tanks stays at this most of the time. My tropical tanks are 6.6 and 6.8. I don't alter the ph, but have a lot of bogwood in both.
I've never noticed ph changes during the day, but then again I'm not constantly testing it!


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## nickmcmechan

magpie said:


> Again, everything I've ever read suggests that anything more than a 0.2 change in pH over a 24 hour period is bad and can cause the fish to go into pH shock. Is this not true??
> 
> Lol, I must be going blind as I can't find any mention of this!
> 
> Normally I'd never recommend trying to adjust the pH in a tank, and actually no one is recommending that the op try to adjust the pH in their tank at the moment. We are simply advising to continue testing the water to keep an eye on the pH, because so far it has not been very stable.


The ph will change upon a water change, measure your ph at the point of water change and then some hours later. Also, measure your tap water ph and then after it has sat for 24 hours. It's because of gasses in the water. In a planted tank, the plants give off co2 at night and O2 during the day, this itself causes slight ph fluctuations. Significant variations in ph in a heavily planted tank are harmless.

People get too caught up in ph and nitrates. They are indications, not measures, of water quality. When I kept discus I focused on water changes, not measurement.

Tbh the best thing you can do is invest in a 3 stage HMA, you will save money and time in the long term. I calculated on my 300l tank that it would pay for itself after a year versus purchasing chemicals to remove chlorine/chloramine


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## d8193

Thanks very much yo you all for your input, I think I`m a lot wiser now than when I started.
I`ll let you know how things progress !!

nickmcmechan, whats a 3 stage HMA ?

THANKS AGAIN


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## nickmcmechan

d8193 said:


> Thanks very much yo you all for your input, I think I`m a lot wiser now than when I started.
> I`ll let you know how things progress !!
> 
> nickmcmechan, whats a 3 stage HMA ?
> 
> THANKS AGAIN


HMA = Heavy Metal Axe.

One of these

Heavy Metal HMA 3 Stage Filter Unit HMA 90-C - £79.99 : DurhamDiscus, Quality Discus At Great Prices

During a water change you trickle water direct from the tap straight to the tank. Because you trickle the water in the tank heater will hold the temperature.

There is a filter in each pod. One is pre-filter. It is so fine it will remove some bacteria! Another stage wil remove heavy metals and another (in most models) will remove chloramine and chlorine.

Compare that to the cost of traditional water changing with chemicals and boiling kettles of water to get the water to the right temp before going in and you will soon find it pays for itself, despite the initial outlay. A wise investment.

Discus keepers use them due to the excellent water quality demanded by these fish.


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## Peapet

nickmcmechan said:


> HMA = Heavy Metal Axe.
> 
> Compare that to the cost of traditional water changing with chemicals and boiling kettles of water to get the water to the right temp before going in and you will soon find it pays for itself, despite the initial outlay. A wise investment.
> 
> Discus keepers use them due to the excellent water quality demanded by these fish.


Yes but the OP has a 25ltr tank!!!

If you've got a combi boiler, you're not boiling kettles


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## nickmcmechan

I wouldn't use the hot water from a combi and put direct to a tank.


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## Peapet

nickmcmechan said:


> I wouldn't use the hot water from a combi and put direct to a tank.


That's up to you. I do


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## nickmcmechan

Peapet said:


> That's up to you. I do


The combi boiler will add heavy metals to the water as it passes through, this is why you wouldn't / shouldn't use hot water from the combi to fill your kettle or to cook with. It wouldn't be wise to use the water to fill your fish tank for the same reason. You will be reducing the quality of water for the tap by doing so....it's bad enough already


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## Peapet

No I think you're getting mixed up with water out of a tank. A combi is just heating up cold water.
If you look on another forum you'll find a lot of others advising that using a combi for water changes is fine. 
I've been doing it for the last 5 yrs


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## NaomiM

Ditto to Peapet. I've been told by several experts on another forum that water from a combi is fine, as it can't pick up any significant levels of heavy metals as it's not sitting around in tanks or pipes. Although you should run the tap for a while first to get rid of water that's been standing in the pipes (and that applies to both the hot and cold taps).


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## magpie

I've heard the same thing about combi boilers as Naomi and Peapet. I can't imagine how long it would take me to do my water changes if I had to boil the kettle to get all my water to the right temperature! 

With regards to the pH issue, I'm struggling with the idea that everything I've ever read online and every fishkeeper I've ever spoken to is wrong about pH fluctuations being harmful to fish. So as before, I'd still advise the op to continue to monitor the pH so that they can see for themselves exactly what is going on in their tank. Maybe I'm just overcautious because of the pH crash I experienced with my goldfish tank, but I'd rather that than lose more fish.


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