# Endorsements on KC Certificate



## pybi (Aug 23, 2009)

Hi all. Hope you can help me out with a little problem with our dog and his restrictions.
We purchased our GSD last year knowing that he had endorsements R- Progeny not eligible for registration and x- not eligible for issue of export pedigree. We had an agreement with the breeder all be it verbal to have these lifted once our dog reached 1 year. Here is the problem the lady died in January and now we are not sure what to do or how to go about sorting this any advice would be appreciated


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Hi Pybi It is an unusual age for a Breeder to agree to lift endorsements, they usually get lifted after health tests etc... Anyway you will have to write to the KC with all the details as they are the only one who will be able to help you


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## Boston (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi
like clueless has already said breeders dont normally lift the until health tests are done and come back good.

Id talk to the kennel club and see what they say but to be honest i dont think they would help as it was only a verbal contract so you can not prove the breeder said this.

goodluck


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## muse08 (Dec 21, 2008)

If your pups was sold to you with endorsed paperwork then you should of (as per KC recommendation)had a contract of sale detailing all the terms and conditions of sale and removal?


"Written confirmation must be obtained from the new owner at the time of sale to state that they have been made aware of any proposed endorsements, even if the endorsed registration certificate is given at the time of sale. In the event of a dispute where such evidence exists, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the vendor's endorsements being retained. Conversely, in the absence of such written evidence, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the purchaser and lift the endorsement. However, this would only apply in cases where a dog is transferred from the person who placed the endorsement to a new ownership"


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Do you plan on using your dog as a stud ?


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

Verbal agreements mean nothing if its not in writing signed by the breeder and yourself then KC will act in your favour and lift the endorsements..


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

mel said:


> Verbal agreements mean nothing if its not in writing signed by the breeder and yourself then KC will act in your favour and lift the endorsements..


The endorsement is signed by the breeders ...They had a "verbal" agreement that the restrictions would be lifted, that was the bit that wasnt in writing!


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> The endorsement is signed by the breeders ...They had a "verbal" agreement that the restrictions would be lifted, that was the bit that wasnt in writing!


and means nothing !

when the breeder registered the pups she endorsed them but if she/he does not put in writing that the pup has endorsed papers and the buyer does not sign to say she agrees then the KC WILL lift them


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

mel said:


> and means nothing !
> 
> when the breeder registered the pups she endorsed them but if she/he does not put in writing that the pup has endorsed papers and the buyer does not sign to say she agrees then the KC WILL lift them


If im taking it right the breeder did all the above and the OP signed and agreed to the endorsments...

Its was the bit about them being lifted that was not in writing!


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> If im taking it right the breeder did all the above and the OP signed and agreed to the endorsments...
> 
> Its was the bit about them being lifted that was not in writing!


ahhh right erm i read it like the OP sed the papers was endorsed but the breeder and them had a verbal agreement maybe im wrong it has been known


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

mel said:


> ahhh right erm i read it like the OP sed the papers was endorsed but the breeder and them had a verbal agreement maybe im wrong it has been known


hehe sorry but i think you are wrong this time!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dont know why youd want to risk doing anything with a dog that has endorsements on it. Id think if you could prove the dog was healthy, i.e get it tested and sent the paperwork to the KC as usual, they'd lift them then - but otherwise you bought yourself a pet


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> hehe sorry but i think you are wrong this time!


Damn i hate being wrong lol !

wish the OP would come back on and clear things up, if they signed a contract then they guna have probs unless they deny all knowledge which they could being that the poor breeder is no longer with us 

if they didnt sign anything then they no worries


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

james1 said:


> Dont know why youd want to risk doing anything with a dog that has endorsements on it. Id think if you could prove the dog was healthy, i.e get it tested and sent the paperwork to the KC as usual, they'd lift them then - but otherwise you bought yourself a pet


How u mean as usual ? KC dnt give a flying fook if ur dog passes every test available to the breed they all about money, maybe if they did what u think they do then we would have better specimens of each breed sadly it dnt work like that endorsements can be lifted anytime by the breeder no questions asked..


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> unless they deny all knowledge which they could being that the poor breeder is no longer with us


I think the KC are clamping down on this. One common loophole that was used was to 'sell' the dog on (often just transferring ownership to get rid o the endorsements) and because the 'new owner' would claim they didn't know about the endorsements the KC would lift them. However, they have now changed this and will no longer lift endorsements.


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## mel (Jul 19, 2008)

Dundee said:


> I think the KC are clamping down on this. One common loophole that was used was to 'sell' the dog on (often just transferring ownership to get rid o the endorsements) and because the 'new owner' would claim they didn't know about the endorsements the KC would lift them. However, they have now changed this and will no longer lift endorsements.


thats a good step by the KC its about time....

Im not a fan of the KC i bought a pup off someone who was KC Accredited he had kennel cough, fleas and ear mites that he passed on to my others, i complained to the KC and never heard nothing back !! Im not the only one since my experience ive spoke to other ppl who have complained with similar reasons and got the same NONE response i got KC is all about generating money !!


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Im not a fan of the KC i bought a pup off someone who was KC Accredited he had kennel cough, fleas and ear mites that he passed on to my others, i complained to the KC and never heard nothing back !! Im not the only one since my experience ive spoke to other ppl who have complained with similar reasons and got the same NONE response i got KC is all about generating money !!


If they are Accredited breeders then I would follow it up. KC registered pups won't be affected, but I know they are taking the AB Scheme seriously and have already struck off a number of breeders after complaints.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

mel said:


> How u mean as usual ? KC dnt give a flying fook if ur dog passes every test available to the breed they all about money, maybe if they did what u think they do then we would have better specimens of each breed sadly it dnt work like that endorsements can be lifted anytime by the breeder no questions asked..


by as usual, i mean when you health test a dog, you send or the clincian sends in the paperwork for the KC to register. That way when someone is looking to breed a dog they can ask the KC for their breed history and there will be a record of what tests the dog has had done


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> by as usual, i mean when you health test a dog, you send or the clincian sends in the paperwork for the KC to register. That way when someone is looking to breed a dog they can ask the KC for their breed history and there will be a record of what tests the dog has had done





> i.e get it tested and sent the paperwork to the KC as usual, they'd lift them then


The KC already keeps records of health tests - they are now available for all to see online. However, it will not (and should not, IMO) lift them just because someone has had health tests done. It is the breeder that puts the endorsements on, and they should be the ones to dictate the terms under which they will lift them (if they are prepared to).


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dundee said:


> The KC already keeps records of health tests - they are now available for all to see online. However, it will not (and should not, IMO) lift them just because someone has had health tests done. It is the breeder that puts the endorsements on, and they should be the ones to dictate the terms under which they will lift them (if they are prepared to).


yes I agree, thats why I said in my previous post "i dont know why youd want to breed a dog with endorsements on it". I was just pointing out that if the OP did want to pursue it this is probably the route that would need to be taken. If the animal is tested and the tests come out clear the KC would have to consider these but I doubt unless you can support the health of your dog you will get any exemption. 
Can you not just go by the breeders wishes? As you did buy the dog - you didnt reject it in favor of another?


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

With all the bad press regarding GSD's lately and the KC's own plans to withhold CC's etc... I think (hope) they would be more likely to ignore the pleas of someone to lift any restrictions placed on a dog of that breed.

Just my opinion


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## pybi (Aug 23, 2009)

After a long conversation with KC today they advised me I can breed from him but no papers will be issued to the pups. I have to contact the executor to the late breeder and they can write to KC then the KC will only then consider it. My dog has had all tests everything good hips 1/3


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> After a long conversation with KC today they advised me I can breed from him but no papers will be issued to the pups. I have to contact the executor to the late breeder and they can write to KC then the KC will only then consider it. My dog has had all tests everything good hips 1/3


Basically endorsements do not stop you actually breeding, they stop the puppies being registered. So if you do decide to breed it the litter will be unregistered pups.

Can you speak to the executor of the will first to see if they would be willing to write to the kc and give permission. If they aren't then I can't see the KC allowing it.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> If im taking it right the breeder did all the above and the OP signed and agreed to the endorsments...
> 
> Its was the bit about them being lifted that was not in writing!


If you dont write something out explaining the endorsements, what they mean and exactly under what conditions you will lift them and have the breeder AND owner sign this, the endorsements will be lifted by the KC at the request of the owner whether the breeder agrees or not. We ensure that every single person who buys our pups signs to say they understand the endorsements and when we will (at our discretion) lift them. Thats the only way to be sure you have control over when they will be lifted.

Given the situation the KC will lift these endorsements as nothing was in writing so the owner could say they didnt know the dog had endorsements or what they meant. I do not understand why they have said they wont as this has happened repeatedly recently...


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> I do not understand why they have said they wont as this has happened repeatedly recently...


I know they are clamping down on it as lots of new owners claim they were unaware and allowed it only for the breeder to find out and send them the contract. Also, people were registering them with someone else to get around it. I'm sure some slip through as it's fairly recent but think they've had so many breeders complaining that they are not so lenient now.


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## pybi (Aug 23, 2009)

Thanks you all for your advice.
Have spoken to the executor He would like me to go see him with the KC papers and my dog so he can get all the details and he will write to KC requesting the endorsements removed.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

what are the endorsements for? just curious now


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

progency cannot be registered by KC


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## pybi (Aug 23, 2009)

No this is correct it is done by the breeder


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