# Cycling



## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Hi all!! 
I'm new here,hoping for advice and to learn a whole lot for you guys.
Ive set up a new 190 litre tank. I've been cycling for 2 weeks. Keeping ammonia at 2ppm. Nitrite 0.25 Nitrate 0. 
I haven't done any water changes as there is conflicting advice online. Do I do water changes while cycling?


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Need to add:
Internal filter. Sand, live plants.
Fishless cycle


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi Megan,

Sounds like you're doing everything right 

I wouldn't do any water changes at this stage. Sometimes they're necessary if the cycle stalls at the nitrite stage, but hopefully that won't happen.

Take a look at the fishless cycling sticky thread at the top of this section for more advice, and feel free to keep popping back and updating and/or asking questions


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> Hi Megan,
> 
> Sounds like you're doing everything right
> 
> ...


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Thank you NaomiM! I wont be doing any water changes and hope it continues to cycle. I've heard patience is key but it really is through the cycling process.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

If you can get hold of a little piece of mature media from an established tank, or even a squeeze of water from a filter sponge, it can really speed things up


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Really wanted to go this route but my friends have reptiles and don't trust my local pet stores water. ie pets at home


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Also I have quite Abit of algae building up each day. On the glass, sand and one plant. I have 3 plants. Do I wipe this off or leave it be?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

If it's brown algae, it'll be diatoms - a normal by-product of the cycle. You can wipe it off the glass if you want, but it's harder to get it off the plants/sand. It won't do any harm to the fish when you get them, and some fish will graze on it, but the best creature for removing algae is a nerite snail - the larger zebra ones are fantastic at cleaning the glass, while the smaller horned nerites will eat the algae from even the most delicate plant leaves without damaging the plant. Once you're cycled, a nerite or two could be a good addition


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> If it's brown algae, it'll be diatoms - a normal by-product of the cycle. You can wipe it off the glass if you want, but it's harder to get it off the plants/sand. It won't do any harm to the fish when you get them, and some fish will graze on it, but the best creature for removing algae is a nerite snail - the larger zebra ones are fantastic at cleaning the glass, while the smaller horned nerites will eat the algae from even the most delicate plant leaves without damaging the plant. Once you're cycled, a nerite or two could be a good addition


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

It's green algae. My tank was sparkling a week ago. I have white sand, which is now rippled with green algae. I was thinking about getting a snail or 2 to help with this problem. But I wasn't sure if I'm able to do this whilst cycling...
Also I really don't want eggs everywhere, they are hard to remove from the glass and ornaments.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

No don't add snails during the cycling. Nerite eggs won't hatch in freshwater, but you're right, they will still lay them. Mine don't seem to lay on the glass but I do get eggs on the bogwood. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I guess they could be considered unsightly.

How long do you have your lights on for each day?

For the sand, you'll have to either stir it up by hand from time to time or get some Malaysian trumpet snails, who burrow in the sand and will keep it stirred for you. I've never seen eggs from my MTS - they'd be tiny and I guess they're all buried in the sand. I rarely even see the MTS themselves! It's important to keep the sand stirred up, not just to deal with algae but also to allow gases to dissipate.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> No don't add snails during the cycling. Nerite eggs won't hatch in freshwater, but you're right, they will still lay them. Mine don't seem to lay on the glass but I do get eggs on the bogwood. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I guess they could be considered unsightly.
> 
> How long do you have your lights on for each day?
> 
> For the sand, you'll have to either stir it up by hand from time to time or get some Malaysian trumpet snails, who burrow in the sand and will keep it stirred for you. I've never seen eggs from my MTS - they'd be tiny and I guess they're all buried in the sand. I rarely even see the MTS themselves! It's important to keep the sand stirred up, not just to deal with algae but also to allow gases to dissipate.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Ok. I have my lights on for 8 hours a day. Could this be causing more algae? 
Could I wipe it off the glass at least?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Yes, I'd reduce the lighting period - 5-6 hours should be enough unless you have plants that are quite demanding of light. Some people find it helps to have a lighting gap, i.e. split the lighting period into two blocks with a break of an hour or so in between. The theory is that plants can cope with this but algae can't.

Also, make sure you're using bulbs/LEDs that are optimised for plant growth. Plants use a different part of the spectrum from algae, so a good light source will make use of the right part of the spectrum. This also enables the plants to more efficiently use the nutrients in the water, so there's less left for the algae to use.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> Yes, I'd reduce the lighting period - 5-6 hours should be enough unless you have plants that are quite demanding of light. Some people find it helps to have a lighting gap, i.e. split the lighting period into two blocks with a break of an hour or so in between. The theory is that plants can cope with this but algae can't.
> 
> Also, make sure you're using bulbs/LEDs that are optimised for plant growth. Plants use a different part of the spectrum from algae, so a good light source will make use of the right part of the spectrum. This also enables the plants to more efficiently use the nutrients in the water, so there's less left for the algae to use.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

This makes sense! And hopefully it will keep the algae under control. I have 2 
Tropica Cryptocoryne Beckettii 'Petchii' plants but I can't remember the name of the other. The algae is just loving one of the petchii but isn't anywhere on the others. Strange


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Crypts don't need a huge amount of light. They're slow growing which does tend to make them more prone to algae. Water flow can also have an effect - is the algae-affected plant positioned somewhere where it doesn't get a lot of current? Depending on what fish you're planning on getting, adding a powerhead near the bottom of the tank to create an underwater current might help.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

You are right! The one plant with algae doesn't get alot of current. I do have a bubble air stone, but Because my tank is Trigon, the corners get less current.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

This is my tank last week
This is the algae swamp now


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Nice tank  I won't show you mine as they're both in need of a fair bit of TLC at the moment! (I look after the fish, but haven't had time to do anything with the plants or give the outside glass a much-needed clean since my youngest daughter was born 14 months ago!)


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

That's ok, you know so much, bet your fish are happy and healthy!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Aw thanks  I wouldn't say I know that much. When I first joined this forum it's because I had two goldfish who were basically dying because I didn't know about fishless cycling or appropriate tank sizes. What I do know, I've learned from the folks here and on other forums, and from general reading and research online, since I didn't want to mess up again and cause suffering to any other fish like I had unwittingly done to those poor goldfish!


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> Aw thanks  I wouldn't say I know that much. When I first joined this forum it's because I had two goldfish who were basically dying because I didn't know about fishless cycling or appropriate tank sizes. What I do know, I've learned from the folks here and on other forums, and from general reading and research online, since I didn't want to mess up again and cause suffering to any other fish like I had unwittingly done to those poor goldfish!


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Thats exactly why ive joined.Ive never done a fishless cycle before.
I would like to get oranda types and I just adore everything about them. I would hate for anything to go wrong that I can prevent, so I'm trying to do what I can. 
I will test the water tomorrow and clean Abit of the viewing glass up.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

@magpie would be the one to speak to about orandas I reckon, as she's got lots of experience with fancy goldies 

I think the maximum you could have in that size tank would be two.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Good to know for when I get them, thanks.
Yes I'm getting 2, plus one perscale. 
I'm getting babies. But I'm going to upgrade and purchase a Rio 450 litre as they have more length which is only right for oranda's. I've just been reading through past questions alot of people keeping oranda's in tiny tanks(saw alot of your messages also stating it's not really big enough;-)


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds like you've done loads of research, which is great  Do stick around and keep asking questions and posting pics!


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

I typed in oranda's into search bar and loads of old threads came up. 
I will definitely stick around and keep posting


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

NaomiM said:


> @magpie would be the one to speak to about orandas I reckon, as she's got lots of experience with fancy goldies


 I do love my orandas! I must get some new pics of them, I haven't taken any in ages.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

I've just added Dr Tim's one and only. Do you think this will help the cycle along.
Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrate 2.0
Nitrate 20.0


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds like the cycle's moving along  I'd let the ammonia drop to 2ppm though. Too much can cause issues when you get to the nitrite stage.

How often are you topping up the ammonia atm, and how much by?

No idea about the Dr Tim's - sorry!

@magpie, yes more photos of your beauties would be lovely!


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

I'm topping it up everyday. I've been trying to keep it steady but yesterday, think I over did it Abit. So letting it drop and doing it every other day could help with the increase.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

How much is it dropping by over 24 hours?


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

It drops from 2 to 1ppm.
Dr Tim's one and only claims you will be able to add fish soon after. It's an American product that has everyone raving. I also used Dr Tim's ammonia.
I won't be rushing this stage though. I will still wait for ammonia and Nitrate to drop to 0 within 24hours. Then repeat


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds good 


Megan33 said:


> <snip> and Nitrate to drop to 0 <snip>


You mean nitrite, but I'm sure you know that


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Oops yes


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Tested my water today and I'm not happy with the ammonia level. I did 30% water change. I'm also going to test my water source.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hmm. At the higher levels, it can be hard to distinguish between the colours, so it may well still be dropping, just not visibly. Hopefully in another day or two you'll start to notice a drop


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

I don't want to rush this process but I'm hoping it continues to drop over the next week , so I can finally get some beautiful fish. Where did you get yours and do u know of any really good aquarium places?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Whereabouts are you? Maidenhead Aquatics are generally good, and lots of mine have come from there. Wherever you go, have a good look around at all the fish (not just the ones you're interested in) to check that they're healthy looking, and chat to the staff to see if they seem knowledgable. If they advise fishless cycling rather than "set up, wait 3 days and add fish", it's probably a good place!  Another thing to look out for - if they don't quarantine their new arrivals, or only quarantine them for a couple of days, it's probably best to steer clear.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

London. I had a look at maidenhead aquatics and they have stores everywhere, so that's really good. Great advice on choosing the right place! 
Tested tap water. 0 for each.
Tank water today.... No Nitrates though


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Megan33 said:


> London. I had a look at maidenhead aquatics and they have stores everywhere, so that's really good. Great advice on choosing the right place!
> Tested tap water. 0 for each.
> Tank water today.... No Nitrates though


What did you read the ammonia as? In the [hoto it doesn't look much like any of the colours on the chart 

With the nitrates, it could be that your plants are absorbing them.


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

(don't know why its upside down) 
I read it as 0.5.
I won't add any ammonia until it reads 0.
Probably tomorrow, then I will do the 24hour test a few times.
Hopefully, I'm nearly there


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Someone told me to lay the test tube down, so that's why the colour didn't really match. I was, and have been since standing it up and the colour on top matches perfectly. 
NH3 2.0, NO2 4.0, NO3 40.0
This seemed like a spike to me, so did a 20% water change. 
I also bought a UV sterilizer.
I'm Abit fed up now and can understand why this is the stage people start making mistakes out of sheer frustration and the patience that is needed!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

You shouldn't get "spikes" as such during a fishless cycle - the only source of ammonia is what you're adding. Every 1ppm ammonia becomes around 4ppm nitrite, which is why the nitrite is looking high. But you're also getting nitrates, which means the nitrite is being processed.
How quickly is the ammonia dropping? Looks like maybe you've completed the nitrite stage of the cycle before the ammonia stage is complete - possibly due to the product you added?
Normally what happens is that once the ammonia is being processed, the nitrite stays sky-high for ages (this is generally the most discouraging part of the cycle) and then suddenly drops. If this has already happened (as it looks like it might have), then chances are you're nearly there


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

NaomiM said:


> You shouldn't get "spikes" as such during a fishless cycle - the only source of ammonia is what you're adding. Every 1ppm ammonia becomes around 4ppm nitrite, which is why the nitrite is looking high. But you're also getting nitrates, which means the nitrite is being processed.
> How quickly is the ammonia dropping? Looks like maybe you've completed the nitrite stage of the cycle before the ammonia stage is complete - possibly due to the product you added?
> Normally what happens is that once the ammonia is being processed, the nitrite stays sky-high for ages (this is generally the most discouraging part of the cycle) and then suddenly drops. If this has already happened (as it looks like it might have), then chances are you're nearly there


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

The ammonia drops 0.5 a day, but I've never seen zero. Thats why ive not gave any ammonia for 2 days now and im not goin to add more ammonia until I see this zero. It's strange... but encouraging you say I could be nearly there. Hope so


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

Today NH3 2.0, NO2 4.0, NO3 40.0
It will not budge.
I've let the test tubes sit with distilled water in them, hope this helps get a more clear reading.
I've also added the UV filter, which I'm sure it will only remove floating bacteria and not any from my filter.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Silly question probably, but I assume you've been using dechlorinated water for the water changes and not used any untreated tapwater on anything in the tank?


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## Megan33 (Apr 25, 2019)

I've been using prime and stability. Any thing I've cleaned, has been with the tank water. I've got a good amount of bacteria now but just need Nitrate to rise and the other 2 to disappear. Hopefully end of next week I can get some fish!


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