# Introducing a new rat to a lone rat!?



## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

Hi  I'm new here but I am loving the forum so far! 

As you might know from my introduction post, I'm a proud momma to my little boy Alfie. I originally bought him with another rat but cutting a long story short, I was advised to remove said other rat from the cage as he got extremely violent (hunching his back; lunging and biting and extremely territorial etc). 

I've kept Alfie alone for 2 weeks now and he is happy as Larry, so to speak. He is with me mostly 24/7, riding around on my shoulder and admiring everything. But obviously I know that it is much better to keep rats in pairs or more so I'm looking to buy Alfie a buddy. I've bought another cage for the whole quarantining process and I brought the cage home with me yesterday. It is second hand so obviously I've thoroughly cleaned it out but Alfie is very wary of the new smell. He clung to me when I took him out of his cage and refused to move from my shoulder. 

I was just wondering if you had any tips on introducing a new rat to a lone rat???? :confused1:

I've researched an awful lot beforehand so I am aware of most recommendations. I'll introduce them both on neutral ground (in my case the bathtub) after putting their cages side by side and letting them sniff each other through the bars if they so wish. The only problem is Alfie refuses to go near the cage even now, and there is no rat in there yet! He DID get a little more confident this morning and began to sniff the cage whilst sat on my knee. Patience is definitely a virtue here. 

I'd just like to know if any of you have ever been in my situation before and what you did? Or if you have any tips for me on introducing a new rat to a lone rat?

I'm hoping to get Alfie's friend from a reputable breeder later this week or early next week. 

Thanks, guys


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

It will be the same with mice use somewhere they have never been before like a bath and just watch only deprecate ifBLOOD is involved


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

I've always just plonked them all somewhere neutral with pea fishing tubs so that they get a bit wet and sit back an watch. I've just introduced a 3 to a 9 that way. The trouble I've had is always been with smaller groups.

Sometimes scuffles break out but I tend to go with the rule "no blood, no foul". 

I then clean the smallest cage I have (hamster cage) put them all in for a night and if alls well they move into the Freddy for a few nights and I'll add a house or a shelf on the 2nd night. Now they're in the Explorer with shelves and toys because I add something new each day. If scuffles start I go back a step for a day and try again.

I'd personally get a few babies rather than just one.

What happened to the other rat? What happens if the new one is the same? Boys tend to go through hormonal stages and that sounds like that was maybe what it was. You could've had him neutered and tried intros again...

Are you going to a breeder or rescue for your new rat? Pet shops are not a good source for animals, they tend to be sickly and less socialised and you are also supporting rodent farms when you buy from them.

Also, quarantine only works if they are in a different airspace so your only protecting them from external parasites and not resp infections.

Don't put the cages too close, I've had a rat lose a toe to that.


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## Laura123 (Aug 6, 2012)

I would get some kittens of the same sex. Wait till they are around 10 weeks and introduce them on nuteral ground with no toys to fight over. Start with 10 or 20 minutes and build up the time. Once all it well for about 50min try moving them all into a small cage with only bedding and two water bottles. It is better to scatter feed at this time so there are no fights over food. Once they have been in there for a few days introduce a hammock. If there is no fighting introduce more furniture. If there starts to be fighting move back a step and take things out. They can then move into the big cage. Good luck and be brave it can be nerve racking at times.:thumbsup:


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## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I've always just plonked them all somewhere neutral with pea fishing tubs so that they get a bit wet and sit back an watch. I've just introduced a 3 to a 9 that way. The trouble I've had is always been with smaller groups.
> 
> Sometimes scuffles break out but I tend to go with the rule "no blood, no foul".
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help guys 
The rat I initially bought with Alfie had to be removed from the cage because it continuously lunged at my hand and bit me, not allowing me to get into the cage. Alfie wouldn't leave his tunnel and whenever he was approached by the other rat he would run away. I was advised to remove the other rat by the petstore because he kept hunching his back and backing up into one corner of the cage whenever he was approached by myself or, rarely, Alfie.
I desperately wanted things to work out but the petstore said to remove the violent rat because this could be a sign of fighting to death. The violent rat would attack Alfie whenever they were near each other. I KNOW fighting is normal, but this was violent fighting. ☹

Anyway, I went to Viper and Vine last week, a pet store in Manchester (I knoooow) and bought a 6 week old hairless buck, he is absolutely sweet and adorable. Hopefully things will go better this time. I KNOW that all rats, especially males, fight, but the rat I first bought Alfie with was extremely violent to the point where he could fight until death, which is obviously why I removed him.

I know a lot of owners have their rats neutered but I really want to leave that as a last resort seeing as how they are only tiny little things and if possible I would want to avoid the stress of that. Obviously if it was essential I would definitely go through with the procedure.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Good luck with the intros when it happens  

Re the neuterin, I'm not sure about rats as my experience is with mice - but could you have him chemically castrated instead of fully neutered? I'm not sure if that is an option, but I know that my vet and I have used a hormone tablet to reduce aggression in some mice. We've used it during the most hormonal period on argumentative boys and it's helped so maybe that would be an option? I'm sure some one that knows more about rats will be able to tell you better though


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

How old is your existing rat?

Really you should always have two babies of the same age.
This is not only for physical stimulation but mental as well.

Babies play a lot and if your older boy is quite a bit older then I'm afraid you've not been very fare to the 6 week old.
He needs someone the same age as him as your older boy could get peed off with the baby as he will want to play fight etc.

It's like having an adult amongst a child.


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## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

blade100 said:


> How old is your existing rat?
> 
> Really you should always have two babies of the same age.
> This is not only for physical stimulation but mental as well.
> ...


I know  my existing rat is only 9 weeks old.


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Not 100% sure if it's been mentioned in here, but I swore by the carrier method. 

Pop all the rats in a carrier on fresh bedding and take them for a walk, making sure to make the ride slightly bouncy. Even if you just do it for 10 mins wandering around your house and back garden, or a little stroll around the block, they are highly likely to huddle up together and end up bonding very quickly by this method. Your boy's still young, so it's not likely serious aggression, he won't have any hormones just yet! The pet shop might have mistaken boisterous play for aggression - no blood no foul is the common rule with ratties


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## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

Argent said:


> Not 100% sure if it's been mentioned in here, but I swore by the carrier method.
> 
> Pop all the rats in a carrier on fresh bedding and take them for a walk, making sure to make the ride slightly bouncy. Even if you just do it for 10 mins wandering around your house and back garden, or a little stroll around the block, they are highly likely to huddle up together and end up bonding very quickly by this method. Your boy's still young, so it's not likely serious aggression, he won't have any hormones just yet! The pet shop might have mistaken boisterous play for aggression - no blood no foul is the common rule with ratties


Thank you so much for the advice! The rat I initially bought with Alfie was attacking Alfie to the point where he had scratches and was bleeding so it was a good job I listened to the pet store's advice and took the violent rat back. They kept him apart from the other rats and said they would sell him on his own as he wasn't suitable to home with other rats. Also, it was impossible for me to go in the cage as said rat kept lunging at my hand, biting me and not letting go.

Anyways, I'll probably introduce Alfie and Dimple late next week as the whole 3 week quarantining process will be done.:thumbup1:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Neutering aggressive rats does wonders for them.
If he were mine I'd of had him neutered.


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## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

The pet store told me to fetch him back because of all all the aggressive signs he was showing. They said it would be dangerous towards my other rattie to keep them together and I didn't want either of them to get hurt, so that's what I did. 



I've heard it's rare for 2 rats not to be able to live together but that's what happened here. :001_unsure:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Lots of rat owners who have aggressive rats tend to get them neutered just like how I did with one of my boys.
I had wally neutered for aggressive behaviour towards his cage mates and now he's a lovely old man. I say old as he's 21 months old and I had him neutered at 7-8 months old.

It's just a shame now as the rattie you took back will go on to live a life alone and bored. It's just his hormones kicking in and I understand with you being new to rats would probably not have known that about neutering rats.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Plus I always find its better to have 3 rats or more rather than just 2. 
That way if one wants to play and you have 2 others it takes pressure off the one that doesn't want to.
Rats do better in bigger groups. That's my opinion anyway.

I had 14 male rats living altogether but out of the 14 I had I only have 4 boys remaining out if that group. 

I do have 3 baby boy ratties that I'm hoping to introduce to my older boys once the babies are 9 weeks old.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

blade100 said:


> It's just a shame now as the rattie you took back will go on to live a life alone and bored. It's just his hormones kicking in and I understand with you being new to rats would probably not have known that about neutering rats.


Very optimistic of you... if it's a normal pet shop they could well have just killed him as he would be too aggressive to re-home. :frown2:

My boy is showing aggressive/hormone run signs and as soon as he is over his URI I will get him neutered.

I also agree with Blade, I regret only having two. I will get two more next time and have at least 3 at any one time


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

halfeatenapple said:


> Very optimistic of you... if it's a normal pet shop they could well have just killed him as he would be too aggressive to re-home. :frown2:
> 
> My boy is showing aggressive/hormone run signs and as soon as he is over his URI I will get him neutered.
> 
> I also agree with Blade, I regret only having two. I will get two more next time and have at least 3 at any one time


This is prob true. I'd like to think not though.
It would be nice if an experienced rattie person came along had him neutered and then popped him in with there ratties.


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## shannoneybaloney (May 30, 2013)

Do you honestly think I would have taken him back if I thought this was the case?

I was told by the petstore to take him back and they would sort him out a nice home. I saw them set up a single cage for him and they said after a while they would slowly start introducing him back into the rat cage as it seemed he couldn't live with just ONE rat because he became too territorial and was a threat to my other rat which I did NOT want. 

They said as he was only 7 weeks old it would be rare for the aggressiveness to be caused by hormones.

The guy I bought them from has been keeping rats for over 14 years. They are a very experienced petstore and I have been going there since I was little so I honestly trust them with what they say and the advice they give me.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

shannoneybaloney said:


> Do you honestly think I would have taken him back if I thought this was the case?
> 
> I was told by the petstore to take him back and they would sort him out a nice home. I saw them set up a single cage for him and they said after a while they would slowly start introducing him back into the rat cage as it seemed he couldn't live with just ONE rat because he became too territorial and was a threat to my other rat which I did NOT want.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying you would have, and I honestly hope they do as they say. If they are trust worthy, that's great. I wasn't having a go at you, just general pet stores.


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