# Are my fish ok?



## Sam_skate_for_life (Feb 25, 2010)

My fish tank was set up 2 weeks now and my fish have seemed to slow down alot and the breathing seems to had speeded up.Being new to caring for fish i am not to sure why but i was wodnering wether any one can help.Below ( hopefully if it works) is a video of my fish the colours have messed up as you can see as adobe was being silly and taknig a while so i just took the bad quality as i need to revise for my french exam tomorow.But please take alook and comment if you can help .

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuuHtsW-AA


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2010)

I take it the tank was set-up two weeks ago? If so, that's where the problem is stemming from. A common mistake made my a huge number of beginners (including myself, admittedely) is that they fail to cycle the tank before adding fish or add too many fish, too soon.

You are probably wondering what the term 'cycle' means, this relates to a biological process known as the nitrogen cycle (you may have read about the nitrogen cycle relating to adding nitrates to soil, the principles of the nitrogen cycle that apply to fishkeeping are similar). The cycling process is where a population of friendly filter bacteria break down (oxidize) ammonia (NH3) (and related compounds) into nitrite (NO2) and nitrate (NO3). Ammonia is produced via the gills of fish and also from solid waste (i.e faeces, dead plant matter) and uneaten food as it decomposes. Both ammonia and nitrite are highly toxic to fish in small concentrations, and the toxicity of ammonia increases with temperature and pH.

Before you can add fish, you need to provide an alternative source of ammonia (bottled household ammonia, for example) to feed the growing population of bacteria. The bacterial population can take several weeks to complete. For a slightly more detailed explanation I have an article on the subject here.

The symptoms you are describing are probably due to ammonia poisoning, which can affect breathing as the toxin directly affects the gills. Before I can diagnose the problem and advise on a course of action I will need some info on the tank, including the size, filtration type and whether or not the filter has been cycled.

If you have access to a liquid test kit could you post the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Finally, how many fish are in the tank? Goldfish are incredibly messy creatures and do require more care and money than people think.


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## Sam_skate_for_life (Feb 25, 2010)

My tank is 22.5 litre tank with 2 fish both cold water.The tank was set up for 5 days before introducing the fish as huntingdon garden and lesiure the shop i puchased them from told me i had to set the tank up for 2 days before adding fish, despite i did not add the fish till 5 days.During the 5 days without fish i added stress zyme and ammo zyme into the water at first then after releasing my fish i added stress zyme and ammo zyme again.To make it clear my tank has been set up 3 weeks and my fish ahve been in it for 2 weeks.Only 2 days ago have the fish seemed to change despite adding the weekly stress zyme and ammo zone.

I am still un clear of the 'cycle' you have explained but will try and look into it .

Also i read somewhere that black lines are located on the fish as a sign of ammonia poisinng , but wen i purchased one of my fish it had a black line above its top lip but it has now spread to its bottom lip , wether this is a true symptom i am unsure.

Thankyou for youre reply and if u could explain the 'cycle' in simple terms it would be much appreciated.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2010)

I'm afraid the tank is too small for even one goldfish, and you have been given some very bad advice concerning the initial set-up of the tank. Fancy goldfish can grow to 15cm/6" in length (potentially, that is if the fish are kept under ideal conditions, several factors can influence growth rates) and need at least 45 litres per fish. 

A lot of these so-called 'cycling products' such as Stress zyme are a waste of hard-earned cash, as they usually contain the wrong type of bacteria and are therefore somewhat ineffective. 'Ammonia-removing' resins and liquids only mask the substance or turn it into ammonium (NH4), which is undetectable on ordinary ammonia test kits, but equally as toxic in small amounts.

Black markings on the skin are a sign of ammonia poisoning, what is does is effectively burn through the upper epidermis of the skin. However I would test your water first, as ammonia burns are sometimes confused with the sudden release of pigment in skin cells (including the pigment which causes black coloration).

When you buy a tank, the 'media' found inside the filter (usually foam or ceramic rings or balls with a high surface area for bacterial colonization) is dead and contains none of the bacteria which I mentioned earlier. These bacteria break down harmful substances produced by fish and rotting waste into less harmful substances (in this case, nitrate, phosphate and nitrogen gas, the latter simply dissipates from the water surface or is used up by live plants). 

To kick-start the initial build-up of these bacteria, an alternative source of ammonia (other than fish) must be used to feed the bacteria. This ammonia can come from bottled household ammonia (at 9.5% concentration, available from DIY stores and certain supermarkets) or fish food (the latter will produce ammonia as it decomposes, however it is less reliable than the former). This build-up of bacteria is commonly known as fishless cycling, which as I posted earlier is related to the process known as the 'nitrogen cycle'. 

Fishless cycling can take several weeks to complete and only once ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm (or mg/l., depending on which test kit you are using) on the test kit colour charts will it be safe to start adding fish.


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

well, there are 2 problems here.

first of all, as pleccy says, the tank has not been cycled properly before you added the fish. this isnt your fault, as you were given bad advise and misled by the place you got the fish from. in truth, when you first set a new tank up, you need to "cycle" the tank, which basically means leaving it alone to develop good bacteria in the filter. this process usually takes between 4 and 6 weeks, depending on what chemicals you add during that time, and during this process, you should not add any fish to the aquarium! the reason for this is that its the bacteria that removes the waste your fish produce. no bacteria means no waste is removed, and toxin levels can reach deadly levels within days, meaning the fish die a slow painful death. the symptoms you describe, such as fast breathing, all point to this being the case. As you say, try to research into how to cycle a tank properly. searching "fishless cycle" on google should tell you what you want to know.

the second problem is that im afraid your tank, being 22L, is too small even for 1 goldfish, let alone 2! fancy goldfish like yours need at least 40L per fish minimum, and so, as you can see, your tank is suitable for about half a goldfish.

id be tempted to take the fish back to the shop you got them from, and maybe get some smaller coldwater fish such as white cloud mountain minnows, which would be more than happy in your tank. if you want to keep the fish, then you will need a tank between 80 and 100L within the next few months, and in the meantime, you need to be doing water changes every day to make sure toxin levels are kept as low as possible!


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2010)

Also, just to explain further, nitrite (NO2) is produced from ammonia that has been broken down into nitrite by filter bacteria. The whole process works like this: Ammonia (NH3) ---> Bacteria ---> Nitrite (NO2) ---> More bacteria ---> Nitrate (NO3), Phopshate (PO4) and Nitrogen Gas (N2).


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## Sam_skate_for_life (Feb 25, 2010)

But do my fish look healthy? So i can tell wether they are detiriating?


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2010)

Sam_skate_for_life said:


> But do my fish look healthy? So i can tell wether they are detiriating?


Fish can hide disease and they don't have to show external signs that something is wrong, so it is difficult to tell at this point. The fish do appear to be breathing quite rapidly, do they hang around at the surface at all?

The best thing to do when in doubt is to have your water tested by an aquatic store.


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## Sam_skate_for_life (Feb 25, 2010)

They stay near the bottom if anything, but rarely ever go to the top.Last night i brought ' aqua safe' to treat the water and fight disease and changed the filter with an air line and already dis mornign you can see a rapid difference in the breathing it has reurned to normal.Thanks for all your help it is much appreciated


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## Frosty (Feb 24, 2010)

Sam_skate_for_life said:


> They stay near the bottom if anything, but rarely ever go to the top.Last night and and already dis mornign you can see a rapid difference in the breathing it has reurned to normal.Thanks for all your help it is much appreciated





> i brought ' aqua safe' to treat the water and fight disease


Just a quickie, Aqua safe is really nothing more than a water conditioner and will not fight disease. Its primary use is to remove harmful heavy metals and neutralise chlorine found in our water supplies

It does contain hydrocolloids which act to protect fish skin from attack by parasites and promote the skin's own healing process but DOES NOT fight disease.

Glad to hear he is better though 



> changed the filter with an air line


Are you saying you removed the filter and replaced with an airline?? :huh:


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## Sam_skate_for_life (Feb 25, 2010)

NO LINKED AN AIRLINE INTO THE FILTER?sorry for caps


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