# At my wits end - pulling on lead.



## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

This may be a bit of a long one - 

Bailey pulls. Like a blooming 18 wheeler.

We've had a dog trainer, a behaviourist - he still pulls.

We've tried every type of 'no pull' lead, does nothing, tried a halti and my god you'd have thought I was beating the crap out of him when I put it on the way he flailed lol. I tried to put it on for a few minutes around the house whilst giving him treats, just like the behaviourist said, so he associates it with positive things. After a month of this, he'd still absolutely freak out the second the treats were gone.

He does have aggression issues with strangers and other dogs, but those are quite easily dealt with, I take him out when it's quiet and thankfully I live by a park with an enclosed space for him to have a bit of a run.

Now my issue is I have back problems and I just can't walk him the way he pulls, a family member used to walk him for me but she's just had a baby so can't now. I looked into some dog walkers, there was a few I liked the look of because they had private land, so he'd get a good run - but none of those cover my area. A 'regular' dog walker would be pointless because of his aggression issues, just walking him around the streets would be too stressful for him and the walker - and I don't fancy paying to stress my dog or some poor walker out lol. So basically I'd be paying someone £8 just to hold his lead while we walk the three minutes to the park. And not meaning to sound awful, but that sound like an incredible waste of cash to me.

I'm currently walking him myself and then being unable to walk for a day or so LOL. Not idea, but such is the things you do for your dogs lol.

So basically, I'm asking, for any and all tips to get him walking on the lead and not breaking my back. I'm prepared to trying anything - I'll dance on my head if it'll help lol.

Thanks


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## SDPetcare (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi.
You have mentioned trying a Halti, is that the only aid you have tried. There are many more than just the Halti out there although you won't find them in all the shops. 
For the range of aids available have a look at my website its pretty comprehensive (i've not seen as many elsewhere) Before i had the shop i had a written guide on the webpage, but since my brother sorted the shop for me it has gone. I have wondered about doing a guide on here and would be happy to if you want.
HTH
Jessy


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2011)

Have you tried a straight forward slip lead or gundog lead? I note you say you have a trainer but the key to using one of these leads is to learn to use it correctly! (was twenty years before all was revealed to me) And once you do this, and keep it us it soons becomes second instinst to the dog! That said!" the minute you let up SOME dogs will slip right back into their old ways!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You should try a dogmatic headcollar. It doesn't ride up or rub, so they are not frantic to get it off. It is cushioned, so doesn't dig in, and used properly you have full control over their head. If a dog cannot get his nose forward, he cannot pull. I personally tried a halti on my retriever many years ago and thought it quite useless. He spent so much time trying to get it off that we got absolutely nowhere and his efforts will make your back worse.

The dogmatic is not cheap, but worth every penny.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

What type of dog do you have.

Have you looked at a cannycollar we used one on Dillon, he is a strong large dog, and it did work for us.

The Canny Collar - The Best Collar to Stop Dogs Pulling on the Lead - Home


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.

I have tried every type of 'stop pull' lead I can find. Balance, halti. With the balance harness, he just pulled sideways LOL. 

The dogmatic looks just like the halti, which we never even made it out the house with, he hates things being put on /touching his head. So to be honest, I don't want to waste more cash on head collars for him.

Looking at your website SDP, the only one there I haven't tried is the Walkezee Harness.

We've tried the half check collar, we've tried a normal collar and the slip lead, he just pulls so much he chokes himself, then flails.

I have spent months of my life and god knows how much £ and he just doesn't seem to get it. Well, no he's not to blame, he's a smart dog, I just don't seem to be able to get across to him what I want in a manner he understands.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2011)

He sounds as thought he has a lot of energy. Mabe before going for a walk you could channel this energy with some mentle simulation by playing games where he has to use his brain. Does he like to carry things in his mouth? If he does prehaps giving him a toy to hold in his mouth while on a walk would help. I find if my dogs are carrying a ball or something they take no notice of where they are going or anything around them and just trot proudly wth their heads held high carrying their prized toy. without their toy they are a little more focased on their walks and get distracted by things going arund them. Other than this i can't think of anything other than what the others have suggested with the head collars or a anti pull harness like the halti body harness


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## SDPetcare (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi.
Where abouts are you? maybe there is someone nearby who might be able to help? I'm in Ipswich and if you are anywhere near i'd come over to try stuff!
Jessy


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2011)

Lyceum said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> I have tried every type of 'stop pull' lead I can find. Balance, halti. With the balance harness, he just pulled sideways LOL.
> 
> ...


Lyceum!
That is exactly how my youngest it and still can be!
The reason I mentioned the slip lead is because when I took Milly to a different trainer last summer I poooh hooed the idea of a slip lead again! as the results I had had were pretty much the same as yours!

All I can say is that in twenty years - although putting it on correctly I had not been using it efficiently!

It took a young gundog trainer to teach me HOW!! and honest within one lesson it were working to perfection!

Then lessons cost £18 an hour - we still go! I learnt more from her in one lesson though then a full course at a training class!

Not saying you were NOT using it right but just checkingthat you were!


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm in Liverpool.

He will carry a toy, but only once he gets to the park lol. He's odd, as soon as he's there he sits and waits for you to give him the toy, then it never leaves his mouth till he gets to the park gates on the way home, and he drops it. I have played some treat based games but they've not worked, I've tried the age old stopping till they come back to you, but he just starts pulling the other way, or walks back a little to get a run up for his pull lol.

I have no idea if I was using the slip lead right, all the other dogs I've had before him just walked on the lead lol. The trainer showed me how it was used but nope, he just chokes himself then flails to get away from the choking.

It's stressing me out to be honest, maybe I'm just not the right owner for him. Since I obviously don't seem to be able to give him everything he needs. And I'm worried because I really am doing my back a lot of damage....my physio isn't impressed LOL.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Have you taken him to obedience or training classes, they may be able to help.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> Have you taken him to obedience or training classes, they may be able to help.


He has aggression issues with other dogs and strangers, so class is a no no. Hence the 1-1 training we had, and the 1-1 behaviourist. And still, he pulls.


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## dogsaredogs (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi. I read in an old book once that if your dog went to far in front of you they should be gently! Pushed back with your hand on their chest which my friend used with success. Only depending on your dog as some may get aggressive or frightened of this. Maybe worth a try. With my dog I found simply never letting her pull from day dot. I would just stop moving. And I was also shown that with any lead to have control it should b short so the dog can't go more than a foot in front of you and the collar should be right at the top of the neck as high as it will go. I have also heard simply a growl if they went in front of u after all it is their own language which they respond to. But this method may b described by some as dominating. Just a couple of things u could try . Luckily my dog can now b walked on a loose lead but maybe yours should b kept short for a few months. A lot of people seem to have some sort of problem with their dog. Just to make u feel better mine is obsessed with chasing furries with no recall whilst doing this. Good luck. And try not to get angry with your dog as I'm sure some dogs pull b cause they are nervous of the person on the other end of the lead and try to keep away from u.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

dogsaredogs said:


> Hi. I read in an old book once that if your dog went to far in front of you they should be gently! Pushed back with your hand on their chest which my friend used with success. Only depending on your dog as some may get aggressive or frightened of this. Maybe worth a try. With my dog I found simply never letting her pull from day dot. I would just stop moving. And I was also shown that with any lead to have control it should b short so the dog can't go more than a foot in front of you and the collar should be right at the top of the neck as high as it will go. I have also heard simply a growl if they went in front of u after all it is their own language which they respond to. But this method may b described by some as dominating. Just a couple of things u could try . Luckily my dog can now b walked on a loose lead but maybe yours should b kept short for a few months. A lot of people seem to have some sort of problem with their dog. Just to make u feel better mine is obsessed with chasing furries with no recall whilst doing this. Good luck. And try not to get angry with your dog as I'm sure some dogs pull b cause they are nervous of the person on the other end of the lead and try to keep away from u.


How do you manage to push a dog back gently by the chest if he's a few feet in front and knee level?

I did the stopping when he pulled from day one, worked great with Novak, Bailey, as I said earlier, just keeps right on pulling, pulls the other way or takes a few steps back to get a head start on a good pull lol.

I don't get angry with him, I blame myself TBH. I get stressed sometimes when walking him. But I never get angry with him.


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## Petloversdigest (Dec 10, 2010)

Not sure if it will help but years ago I went to a dog trainer about this which I was struggling with too and she told me to walk my dog via the car every day, then set out on foot as if for a walk and whenever my dog pulled, just turn round and go home. No walk, so no reason to pull. It sort of worked to break the habit but was very time consuming!!!I don't envy you - it's a tough problem.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Does your dog know any similar commands to "Stop" and "Wait"?

Does he walk by your side when off leash at all?


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Walk him via the car? Sadly we don't have a car.

He knows, the usual sit, stay, down, leave, drop. Which he takes absolutely no notice of when on the lead. Once we're in the park and he's off lead he listens, has great recall too. I've not tried to see if he walks by me off lead, since he's not good with strangers and dogs, I can't take the chance of finding out he's not lol.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you tried a front clip harness? I hear they are very good to prevent pulling.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Have you tried a front clip harness? I hear they are very good to prevent pulling.


I had the mekuti balance harness, which clips at the front and the back, he pulled sideways lol.

I will give it a go just clipping it at the front. Cant hurt.


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## dogsaredogs (Dec 11, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> How do you manage to push a dog back gently by the chest if he's a few feet in front and knee level?
> 
> I did the stopping when he pulled from day one, worked great with Novak, Bailey, as I said earlier, just keeps right on pulling, pulls the other way or takes a few steps back to get a head start on a good pull lol.
> 
> I don't get angry with him, I blame myself TBH. I get stressed sometimes when walking him. But I never get angry with him.


What sort of lead do u have? If its an extendable lead this isn't good for training as they know it could get longer. If u have a regular lead it should b held in the opposite hand to which ever side they r walking on go across your body and your other on the lead close to the neck so they can't go infront of u more than a foot. Thus walking at your heel or knee then when he pulls stop bend down and gently push him back. Sorry if u know this and I should patronising I don't mean to. I just have visions of u hanging on the end of the lead for dear life. Lol. Bless ya I know how frustrating they can b. They just don't get message do they. X.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

dogsaredogs said:


> What sort of lead do u have? If its an extendable lead this isn't good for training as they know it could get longer. If u have a regular lead it should b held in the opposite hand to which ever side they r walking on go across your body and your other on the lead close to the neck so they can't go infront of u more than a foot. Thus walking at your heel or knee then when he pulls stop bend down and gently push him back. Sorry if u know this and I should patronising I don't mean to. I just have visions of u hanging on the end of the lead for dear life. Lol. Bless ya I know how frustrating they can b. They just don't get message do they. X.


lol, no I don't think you're patronising lol.

That's how I walk him, I hve a normal lead and a double ending training lead. But he just doesn't get it lol. And there are times when I'm hanging on the end of the lead for dear life lol.


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

I really don't envy you at all and can totally understand your frustration.

My downfall with this particular problem was falling into the vicious circle of getting frustrated by the pulling to the point where I barely walked him. Take it from me that this is most definitely not the answer. The combination of pent up energy and frustration absolutely compounds the problem.

All the head collars and harnesses might provide some respite but in the end the only answer is training. I realise that might sound flippant but where I think people fail at training this behaviour (and I absolutely include myself in this) is that they simply don't keep at it for long enough. Training this is not a one off, set and forget, type of behaviour, the training has to be constant, everyday, forever. It has to be the default behaviour every time the lead goes on. Every time you slip up and allow a pull to get somewhere you will have to start again.

Of course this is incredibly frustrating and I wish there was better news, but as soon as I feel that I have cracked the problem myself, I'll let you know. At the moment I tend to yo-yo, we seem to be making some progress but then it all goes horribly wrong, I would describe it as 10 steps forward and nine steps back, lol! 

So really all you have to do is keep at it and keep your cool, which as you no doubt know, is much easier to say than it is to do.


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## woofwoo (Dec 31, 2010)

We have problems walking ours too. They are so hyped up and excited they will pull, and my husband has suffered terrible back problems through this. Its not until about 40 mins or so into the walk before they start to calm down. We have haltis for ours and i also have Willow on a chest harness as well for more control. Unfortunately ever since a dog ran after Willow whilst she was off the lead one day , since this event she seems to panic when she meets other dogs whilst on the lead, she will bark and play up. Although fingers crossed just recently she seems to be getting a bit better and dosnt have such a fit when she meets other dogs. I am to blame because i tend to tense up and she obviously senses that. 

We dont find the haltis are great and would certainly like to see other alternatives.

I hope you get it sorted.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I can understand just how you feel, one of our dogs was just like yours, i took him to puppy classes, then the next set of classes, then to agility, but he pulled so much on the lead he damaged mine and my husbands elbows, and was so hyper whenever he saw another dog, i paid for behaviourist to come to the house, she was qualified etc, but it did no good, so i decided to get him a harness , when we go for a walk he has harness on with lead attacted,also collar on with lead attached, i started by putting these on indoors and then going into the garden ready to go out gate, if he pulled i turned round and walked back up the path, then after few steps turned round again towards gate, sometimes it would take an hr to get out the gate!!!! then when we did get out gate if he pulled i turned around for few steps then turned back again (looked like i was line dancing, lol) but it has worked, even now he will sometimes try to walk ahead of me so i just take steps back, i also for several weeks walked where i would not meet another dog, after this time i would walk where another dog was across the road telling the dog to "watch me" and give treats, this past wk we have managed to go for walks where i only have to step back a few times and hes ignored other dogs, i hope you find this ok me posting such a long post, but just wanted to let you know there may be "light at the end of the tunnel" my dog will be 4 yrs old this yr and hes been really hard work, ive owned many dogs in the past but never one like this !!!!!!:lol:


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Always nice to hear a success story and illustrates my earlier point very well. I know we are on a very long road but reassuring to know that it can be done. I am sure we will get there in the end and so will you Lyceum.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

It is good to hear a success story. It's hard and frustrating, but my problem is my back, I'm at the point now where I NEED him to stop pulling or I'll have to stop walking him.

Ah well, I shall re-read, take all the info on board and keep trying lol.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lyceum have you tried Victoria Stilwell's method? When they pull you turn them right around and walk in the opposite direction? I just used to stop with Rupert and I do the same with Milo if he pulls.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Lyceum have you tried Victoria Stilwell's method? When they pull you turn them right around and walk in the opposite direction? I just used to stop with Rupert and I do the same with Milo if he pulls.


I have yes, it just seems to give him a good run up to pull in the opposite direction lol.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I would try the halti again. Put it on him and just leave it on him around the house all the time when you are in, and if he goes nuts, just let him. Once he has calmed down then put his lead on and take him round the block on the halti. If he starts flailing then just stand patiently until he stops, then walk and if he pulls use the halti to turn him in a circle until he is back by your side and when he is in the right position say heel. You just have to keep at it and it is frustrating but it's a battle of will and you can't let them win.

Both of mine pulled like a stream train when I got them and I have a bad back so I can feel your pain...good luck xx


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> I have yes, it just seems to give him a good run up to pull in the opposite direction lol.


Sod's law isn't it..! Milo is in a canny collar. He was screaming when I put it on him at first. Mid walk he'd just start to sort of shriek from deep in his throat because he didn't like it. But realistically its not safe to walk him in anything else as there is such a lack of control. He's more used to it now luckily.

Don't suppose he's treat oriented and that might save your arms any? Does he actually know what a word like heel or close etc means? Maybe you could try training him offlead in the garden or house that whichever word you choose means walk right next to me and treat him. Then try and integrate it once in a while on a walk and build it up maybe?


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2011)

Out of the head collars I do still prefer the K9 bridle! but that said my 'headstrong' youngster does not do well on that!

I will always stand by the gun dog lead but you need to use BOTH hands initially to use this efficiently

DT


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Out of the head collars I do still prefer the K9 bridle! but that said my 'headstrong' youngster does not do well on that!
> 
> I will always stand by the gun dog lead but you need to use BOTH hands initially to use this efficiently
> 
> DT


Got to agree I love slip leads. Problem is though I find the slip lead can only be used in correction. Its downfall for me was with Rupert walking by other dogs. Correction just wasn't helping that one behaviour and so he is back in a canny head collar until I can trust him a bit more to walk on. Saying this I could probably ask him to sit and wait in the slip lead as opposed to making him walk on and correcting, I may try that I think my confidence in him has just dropped a bit hence I use the canny.

Milo is a bit too reactive and I need the control of his face hence headcollar. I'd love to have him on a slip lead eventually though too! I guess in reality they aren't a lot different from choke chains are they? Except they can all be incorrectly used too easy 

I do love slip leads though


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

have you tried blocking his way with your foot or a walking stick ? 
i recently broke my leg and managed to walk two collies by blocking them with one of my crutches :thumbup: 
apparently i wasn't moving fast enough for them . . .


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

another thought - more exercise

i take mine out mushing to put the pulling to good use !

:001_cool:

now when we go for a walk, i actually can . . . at _my_ pace


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I find Jacks terrible as soon as we get out the door but calms down a little when tired, i looking like a loon stopping and starting atm :lol:
Id be scared id use a slip lead incorrectly or wether hes too young


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

With the halti, he flails till he gets it off. I tried it on him every day for over a month, playing with him and giving him treats. He was still just as bad at day 31 as he was on day 1. There's zero way I'm taking the chance of him getting it off outside and getting fee. He's not good with dogs or strangers and I can't take the chance of him terrifying some passer by.


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## talassie (Dec 26, 2010)

Perhaps you could pay a trainer to teach him to walk to heel. I know dogs behave differently with different people but if he understands how to walk without pulling then you may have a chance.


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## Kevinktwo (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi, I have a similar challenge, I found this a useful article and some of the early exercise might be able to be done without pressure on your back.

http://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/looseleashwalking/

Kevin


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