# New hobby turned nightmare



## philkleeds (Aug 25, 2013)

please can someone out there help????????

As a newbee I've been following new aquarium cycling set up from Interpet start up guide. 
All was going ok until I added my two baby bubble eyed fancy goldfish. After a few days they have both got white spot and by the looks of things fin rot as well.
I've removed carbon filters and added a white spot treatment to the tank.
I read raising the temp of the water to 86 deg f will speed up the white spot cycle so I've ordered a heater.

Can I treat for fin rot whilst treating the white spot?

Both fish have bits of tail fin missing, red sore looking at the base.

From what i've read on forums, water quality in paramount. So i'm doing 25% daily water changes and gravel vaccuming. Still testing ammonia,nitrate,nitrite etc. Not over feeding. A couple of flakes per fish per day.

Any advice would be a massive help as I don't want to lose my two fish.

My aquqrium is the aqua style 620 which is a 90ltr tank.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

hi and welcom to the forum, if you have put a treatment in then you shouldnt really do daily water changes as you will inadvertantly be removing the treatment , just follow the instructions on the packet, be careful not to overdose and always pour in being careful of nosey fish wanting a taste, i always bring the temp up as this helps the white spot break out of skin and can then be killed in the free swimming cycle. i always up the areation too as meds can take more oxygen outa the water, try to keep stress levels to a minimum , they can go for a day without food too,some cooked pea is good for their digestion ,i have also crushed a garlic clove and added a tiny amount of this oil to the pea ,dont crush too much ,just let the oil coat the pea and soak in a while ,good for them. hope this helps ,hopefully you get more advice soon, good luck.


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## philkleeds (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi, thanks for your advice.

I emailed the place where I got the fish from as they breed them. The chap there said do 25% daily water changes to keep water quaility consistant replacing the white spot treatment as I go. My first treatment was 9ml so I quess he was suggesting I add 2.25ml after water change.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

What are your readings for ammonia and nitrite?
What medication are you using to treat the whitespot?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

It sounds to me like you didn't complete the cycle before you added the fish - or else why would you need to be checking on ammonia and nitrite and doing daily changes?

You are going to be in a really difficult position now because to deal with water quality issues (which no doubt made your fish sick in the first place) you won't be able to use the meds because a) you need water changes to deal with bad water and b) you can't test the water with some meds because they interact with the test solutions.

You need to get your water quality in order first. Ask the pet store for some filter media to support your own filter whilst it catches up. Get the API master test kit to check the water. If ammonia and/or nitrite are above zero you can use Seachem Prime (a water conditioner) to help with ammonia and nitrite toxicity. And if you add some aquarium salt (not human food salt!!) such as aquilibirum or tonic salt (both by interpet) that will help with both nitrite toxicity AND it can help with the white spot (and possibly fin rot). Follow the instructions for the salt, it will tell you how much to add for theraputic purposes.

If after a few days of testing, and water changes if necessary, and when/if your nitrite and ammonia levels are both stable at ZERO, then you can start adding meds. Some meds are compatible, some are not. If in doubt try something more generic, like methylene blue (there's others) and continue using the salt.


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## philkleeds (Aug 25, 2013)

Cheers phoenix24.

Your right, the cycle wasn't completed before fish added. I was forced to add fish early .So I followed a guide on how to cycle tank with fish in. Trouble is, the guide didn't say check ammonia levels. After I noticed fish we bad I started doing partial water changes.

I've added aquatic salt " cheers for the advise" and
I have all ready added the white spot meds and am doing part water changes every day. Replacing white spot meds and salt as I go. The white spot has significantly decreased on one fish and nearly cleared up on the other in two days

I have learned that I can't treat for the fin rot until the white spot problem has gone and the water is clear of white spot meds.

The white spot meds I have used will kill all bacteria good and bad so
My tank cycle has been put on hold short term until fish are free from white spot.
After I am happy all is clear I'll do a 90% water change, replace filters and start the tank cycle again, obviously doing daily water checks.

This is a plan of action I got from fish suppier. Fingers crossed.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

The white spot medication should not affect your filter. Most medications are 'safe' for filter bacteria, so I have no idea why you think yours is harmful (or why it is.. what are you using??)

What on earth could 'force' you to add your fish early? If you don't have your tank ready you don't go buying fish and then retrospectively do a cycle! Most beginners are completely unaware of cycling until fish start dying, but this sounds like you were aware that the tank should be cycled first...?

Never trust the fish suppliers. They just want a sale and very few will give you true, accurate, honest advice about cycling. Most will happily sell you two fancy goldfish and a tank that's way too small just to get a sale (incidentally, your tank is too small: to keep fancy goldfish, or goldfish of any kind, you are talking some seriously big tanks needed for them to grow to full size and live as long as they should do. In the not too distant future you may find problems with your fish that the only remedy for - assuming they survive - is to double the size of your tank).

If you think the meds are going to stall your cycle you are heading down a dangerous route. Bad water will kill your fish faster than anything, and with meds in the equation you are talking some serious stress on the fishes' bodies. I don't think your meds should be killing filter bacteria though, like I already said.


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## philkleeds (Aug 25, 2013)

No Phoenix when I first stated I knew nothing. My daughter got two gold fish from fair. I thought it looked cruel to keep them in a little tub so I bought a 20l tank. Then put two fancy goldfish in there as well. " Got a large local pet shop to blame for that". As you will know they didn't get along so I seperated them. Took the 2 gold fish to a fish shop and gave them to him. He explained my tank was no way near big enough for fancy fish so I bought a 90l tank. It was after a week of cycling my 90l tank that the 20l tank started leaking. Hence forced to add fish early.
To be honest after reading many forum articles I agree my 90l tank is still too small. My aim is to change to a tropical setup but I still want to get these 2 fancy fish back to good health first as it was my fault they're in this state, then sell them on.
It was the fish supplier who told me that the whitespot meds would kill healthy bacteria therefore stop tank cycle.
The white spot med I am using is Interpet anti white spot.
Oh one more thing. Bought an All Pond Solutions 300w heater.
Selected heat setting, fully submerged it and turned it on at mains. Second day of use the glass has cracked and heater blew up.
Maybe someone is trying to tell me something.
If it sounds like I know what i'm talking about i'm only repeating what [email protected] been told or what I have read on the net.


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## philkleeds (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh one more thing Phoenix. Interpet aquarium start up kit. In this box there is a cycle guide. On their cycle guide, on day 7 it says " time to add some fish ". Then cont to day 21. This is what I was following.

What chance has a newbee got?

Many people have different ideas or advice that has worked for them. This is all I was after


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

I totally agree - what chance does a newbie have when starting out on owning fish for the first time? Now that you have included a bit more information about what is going on, it is more clear where the problems lie (the big brand companies giving out terrible information, and their products not being up to scratch in this instance) and I am pleased that your local fish store had more sense and better advice than the big chain store (they are the worst... was it Pets at home by any chance?)

That Interpet cycle guide is a load of rubbish, as you now know. Many much more experienced fish keepers have said in posts many times to not used bottled bacteria (though personally I have found its not a total loss - but I wouldn't rely on it solely), and fishless cycling is now very much the thing everyone is advising to do - and what you have been sort of trying to do. Did you use an ammonia source when you were doing the interpet-version of a cycle?

As for the tank leaking forcing you to add your fish early - now that I know this I apologise for my earlier comments, it's one thing that did not even cross my mind. However, I would heartily advise buying a big plastic storage tub (apparently Staples do a really big one that is made from safe plastic) that can make a crude emergency aquarium in a pinch. They also make good hospital tanks (or so I have been told) for big fish like goldies, and are way cheaper than having a spare glass tank.

Keep up the white spot meds and add your Prime plus some salt to deal with water quality problems. I'm fairly sure the Interpet meds are all safe for filters - it would be a really bad product if they weren't!

Anyway, I hope that you will stick around on this forum and keep us updated on your fish. I really am sorry for jumping down your throat - but now I know more about what's been going on I can give a much fairer assessment: that you are trying your best despite being given terrible advice.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

was your heater under guarntee / very dangerous, i would def be wanting money back and they might just want to replace but not sure if i would feel too confident with that,hope your fish are improving, the fancy vriety are defo more prone to white spot as their tails are longer and also if there was some nipping going on their tails are more delicate , i have comets and was told my black goldfish was a comet too but i think he was a common gf from his looks and his temperament he was a bit of a bully when it come to food and would chase and nip a lot, i m not sure what to suggest futher only to add that i too had very limited knowedge when it come to cycling ,probably less then you and my comets are 3-4 yrs old , yes is hard work , expensive for meds yes its a worry and from seeing and loving these creatures i would love nothing more than a huge pond to let them live out their days but until that happens then i will continue to take care the best i can , dont get disheartened ,feed fresh veg when you can , sweetcorn ,peas,spinach,lettuce, always remove after 5mins whats not eaten,a good diet will help to strengthen their immune systems. good luck.


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