# Accident on M40



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Just been reading about two dog exhibitors who've been involved in an accident with a truck, they had 12 dogs in their camper van and were broken down awaiting a recovery vehicle, they had been broken down and waiting for hours after the RAC refused to tow with the dogs in the camper. When a truck ran into them at speed.

Unfortunately the camper van was destroyed, some of the dogs are dead, some are injured, some escaped onto the motorway and at this time reports are that 1 is still missing.

Luckily all human parties are alive. This, for any dog owner is a nightmare as when we take to the roads we have our most prized possessions on board. My thoughts are with both exhibitors at this very difficult time.

If anyone is in the area please pass on info to help locate the missing dog, a male, Corgi black and white in colour (pic of dog available if you inbox me). Area: J11 - J12 on the M40.

(Picture of camper van below)


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh gees that is horrendous, how awful.

My thoughts are with the owners. I hope the injured dogs make a good recovery and the lost dog is found quickly.


RIP little ones


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm amazed at the RAC's refusal to tow them. Was it simply the dogs being there, or that they put the van over the towing weight limit?

When I broke down once, the AA prioritised me because it was hot weather and I had a dog in my car.

My thoughts are with those poor people and I hope the missing dog is found safe and well.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2013)

How tragic so sad :<


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh dear how awful wonder why the RAC would not tow them if they had all the dogs would be alive and none would be running around on the road I bet they are devastated poor owners


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

So tragic


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

shirleystarr said:


> Oh dear how awful wonder why the RAC would not tow them if they had all the dogs would be alive and none would be running around on the road I bet they are devastated poor owners


The RAC apparently won't tow with livestock, I know truck drivers need licences to transport animals, maybe there was a similar reason? The RAC should have said OK we can't do it but we will call someone who can surely? It was not right to leave dogs and owners stranded on a motorway, it is a very sad situation that the RAC could have helped prevent.

Pet owners need to search for recovery companies who will allow dogs to make sure that they remain safe, there is an important lesson here I think.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Wilmer said:


> I'm amazed at the RAC's refusal to tow them. Was it simply the dogs being there, or that they put the van over the towing weight limit?
> 
> When I broke down once, the AA prioritised me because it was hot weather and I had a dog in my car.
> 
> My thoughts are with those poor people and I hope the missing dog is found safe and well.


When my car broke down, the RAC towed it with the dogs inside. They weren't allowed in the cab of their truck though - it was bad enough having to leave them in the car.

I was thinking of re-joining them, but in the light of this, I'll use some other breakdown service. I'm disgusted by their refusal to tow with dogs in; making the people wait for hours in the cold is bad enough by itself.


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## Reverie (Mar 26, 2012)

That is just so horrific.  Can't imagine what those poor owners must be feeling right now.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Just heart breaking  my thoughts go out to the owner's! Had a few bad reports about the RAC the


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Anywhere I can point to for information such as dogs lost. I realize the people directly involved probably aren't able to setup the information in the state they have to be in but would be useful to share on facebook. I know some people in the area.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Wilmer said:


> I'm amazed at the RAC's refusal to tow them. Was it simply the dogs being there, or that they put the van over the towing weight limit?
> 
> When I broke down once, the AA prioritised me because it was hot weather and I had a dog in my car.
> 
> My thoughts are with those poor people and I hope the missing dog is found safe and well.


Not sure, info is still sketchy at the moment, turns out there was 3 people in the van at the time and also against highway rules to remove the dogs from the car and take them behind the bar??? Dunno how true that is.



Goblin said:


> Anywhere I can point to for information such as dogs lost. I realize the people directly involved probably aren't able to setup the information in the state they have to be in but would be useful to share on facebook. I know some people in the area.


Here you go hun,

DogLost - Lost: BLACK AND WHITE Cardigan Welsh Corgi Male In South East (OX16) 'DARREN' 60299


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Andrew Brace, judge and dog world editor has spoken to those involved in the accident.

He has written this on his status.



> confirmed that Rage the Toy Poodle, Sweetie the Cardigan and the new Crested puppy are all dead, the Cardi bitch puppy has been found but Darren the Cardigan male is still missing. Various doggy friends are already at the scene helping out and others trying to get through to them though the motorway is still closed.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Its extremely sad, I hope the missing dog is soon found.

With it being a motorhome it has been well publicised within the motorhome and caravanning communities about the RAC and AA's policies on carrying dogs.

A lot of whether they will carry your pet depends upon the individual rescue truck driver, perhaps this one could have been happy to take 1 or 2 dogs but 12 was too many or that they weren't suitably restrained within the vehicle.

People don't read policy documents until its too late.

Motorhome recovery and caravan recovery is better with Mayday.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Shared via facebook.


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## Mum to Missy (Aug 13, 2013)

According to FB, he's been found as is back with his owners


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

It's so awful.  Those poor dogs and owners.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

Just awful, feel sorry for owners witnessing such a horrible accident. I hope they can find Darren safe.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Such a horrible event. Those poor dogs, the owners must be feeling so shocked 



shetlandlover said:


> Not sure, info is still sketchy at the moment, turns out there was 3 people in the van at the time and also *against highway rules to remove the dogs from the car and take them behind the bar??? Dunno how true that is.*
> 
> Here you go hun,
> 
> DogLost - Lost: BLACK AND WHITE Cardigan Welsh Corgi Male In South East (OX16) 'DARREN' 60299


I have seen loads of footage on tv shows of vehicles on the hard shoulder being hit, I don't care what the rules are or what the weather is I would never leave any person or pet in my car if I broke down. As long as they are under control the safest place is right away from the carriageways.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

How awful, poor people and poor dogs, it must be dreadful, losing animals in this way, I hope the dogs didn't suffer and they died quickly
Just edited as I re-read the original post and realised some dogs are injured, I imagine they will be very traumatised too
Hope they are rescued very quickly and treated


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

delca1 said:


> Such a horrible event. Those poor dogs, the owners must be feeling so shocked
> 
> I have seen loads of footage on tv shows of vehicles on the hard shoulder being hit, I don't care what the rules are or what the weather is I would never leave any person or pet in my car if I broke down. As long as they are under control the safest place is right away from the carriageways.


yep i agree,the recovery bloke has blood on his hands i hope he feels bad.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> yep i agree,the recovery bloke has blood on his hands i hope he feels bad.


If he was following company rules then he can't be blamed. If it is policy not to transport the dogs then if the driver had he would be in serious trouble, imagine too if he agreed to tow the camper with the dogs inside and someone hit it...the driver would have been hung, drawn and quartered then too.
Hindsight is a fantastic thing.
I can't critisise anyone in these terrible event until the facts are known.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

delca1 said:


> If he was following company rules then he can't be blamed. If it is policy not to transport the dogs then if the driver had he would be in serious trouble, imagine too if he agreed to tow the camper with the dogs inside and someone hit it...the driver would have been hung, drawn and quartered then too.
> Hindsight is a fantastic thing.
> I can't critisise anyone in these terrible event until the facts are known.


I understand that totally.

Surely something could have been done to try get these people to a safer place though.I wonder how bad it would look on the company if the people were actually killed?

It will be interesting to learn what the ins and outs actually are regarding the insurance policy rules.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Maybe he could not tow it but there are big transporter things in the RAC could they have not used one of those to upload it on and take it somewhere safer?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

shirleystarr said:


> Maybe he could not tow it but there are big transporter things in the RAC could they have not used one of those to upload it on and take it somewhere safer?


Or stayed with them with their flashy lights till something could be arranged.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Darren the missing corgi has now been found so all the dogs are accounted for. Sadly 3 were killed in an accident that wouldn't have happened if the RAC had done their job.

About 15 years ago we were traveling to Wales towing a caravan when our car broke down the RAC came out and towed us to our destination but they insisted the dog stayed in the car. It was a boiling hot day and a dog in a car on top of a tow truck would quickly have over heated and died. Fortunately my FIL was as traveling to the same destination and realised we were no longer behind them. They turned rounds and took our dog and son on in their car. Needless to say we cancelled our membership and complained. 

Lats year we took out brake down cover again with the RAC but did tell them I could have up to 6 dogs in the car they said that wouldn't be a problem. I again cancelled it after the refused to change my cover when my OH sold his car and my son had a new car which comes with brake down cover. In the veiw of what has happened to these people I am now glad I have canceeled it and will not be reinstating it with them I will find ssomeone who will happily transport my dogs.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Such a terrible tragedy 

Looking at the RAC policy it says that guide and hearing dogs will always be transported with the passagers but any other pets are at the discretion of the driver.
I hope that investigations are made and the person responsible for turning away the call is held responsible....


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

There are so many whys, none of which changes the tragedy that happened. Hopefully break down companies will at least look into it and maybe, just maybe they will improve. As said by we love bsh they could have put flashy light down or kept the rescue truck behind with its lights on.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

It clearly states the policy on carrying dogs in the policy document which is why I don't have RAC roadside recovery.

If you don't read your policy documents them I'm afraid you are at fault, not the company harsh as that might seem.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

So what do other company's do like the green flag or the AA is there any who carry dogs at all ?


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm with greenflag, this has prompted me to check my policy now


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Have to wonder why the truck driver crashed into them. If on the hard shoulder for example what was a truck driver doing there at speed? We all probably unwisely assume we are relatively safe on a hard shoulder.

Lots of difference between traveling with one dog and six, especially if they are unsecured for instance. No idea what the situation was here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have if only a tragedy wasn't the reason to look back. 

I think it's important that rather than laying blame at the moment we all look at the safety of our dogs in the vehicles they travel in. The "escape" of one dog shows one aspect which isn't normally considered. It's not just the crash itself, it's the aftermath which needs to be considered. Then there's the obviously pointed out, what happens if you breakdown. What policies are you and your dogs guaranteed to be provided for available.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Picklelily said:


> It clearly states the policy on carrying dogs in the policy document which is why I don't have RAC roadside recovery.
> 
> If you don't read your policy documents them I'm afraid you are at fault, not the company harsh as that might seem.


The policy only states that it is driver discretion tho, not that they won't transport dogs.
So until you come across a driver that decides to be an arse you won't have a problem.

I wouldn't use the RAC anyway but I can see why some may have been confused as to what their policy on dogs is.. The company are very much at fault for not being clear or having another driver or providing some help at the scene.. If they didn't want to transport dogs then they should state clearly they do not cover pets..


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> The policy only states that it is driver discretion tho, not that they won't transport dogs.
> So until you come across a driver that decides to be an arse you won't have a problem.


We may not have a problem with dogs. We have to allow that others do. Let's face it how many idiots own dogs and how many people on these forums have had problems with bad owners? Is it any wonder some people outside the dog scene may have reservations if experience has shown the negative?


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

_Have to wonder why the truck driver crashed into them. If on the hard shoulder for example what was a truck driver doing there at speed? We all probably unwisely assume we are relatively safe on a hard shoulder._

A few years ago I had a puncture on the motorway with 2 dogs in my car. Before I had chance to call the AA, a Morrisons driver who was behind me saw what had happened and pulled up behind me. I was a bit frightened at the time but he reassured me from a safe distance and was a good samaritan who changed my wheel for me.

He had carefully parked his lorry a good few yards behind me with his hazard lights flashing. I stood with the dogs the other side of the crash barrier but was absolutely petrified at the number of cars, vans and lorries that constantly drifted from the nearside lane onto the hard shoulder. I'd never been in that position before and had only seen the occasional one in front of me as I was driving but even standing the other side of the crash barrier I felt really vulnerable.

The hard shoulder is certainly not a safe place to be.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm not with the RAC, tbh I'm not sure what the AA policy is either.

When the owners made a rescue call assuming they mentioned the dogs, then the operator should have ensured the recovery person was happy with the fact they had dogs.

Irrespective of the accident that occurred, how long would those people have been there on the hard shoulder waiting for assistance?

I honestly think the service they were afforded by the RAC was appalling. Then for the accident to occur absolutely dreadful.

I am really pleased all dogs are now accounted for. Wishing the injured dogs a speedy recovery.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

I think this is disgusting and the Driver should be brought to task, it can be as simple as this, if the Driver doesn't like dogs he won't transport them. 

We were due a Gas check ecently and they rang up asking if we had a dog, as the fitter who was coming didn't like dogs, so could you lock your dog up while the fitter is there, "NO", I replied if you want our custom send a fitter round who does like dogs, this is my dogs home and he will not be locked up. 

They soon found a person who liked dogs to come to my house, BLOOMING CHEEK, its disgraceful, that we have to pander to the minority.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> The policy only states that it is driver discretion tho, not that they won't transport dogs.
> So until you come across a driver that decides to be an arse you won't have a problem.
> 
> I wouldn't use the RAC anyway but I can see why some may have been confused as to what their policy on dogs is.. The company are very much at fault for not being clear or having another driver or providing some help at the scene.. If they didn't want to transport dogs then they should state clearly they do not cover pets..


So I'm asthmatic and am allergic to dogs, should your dog bring on an asthma attack I will struggle to drive and put all of our lives in danger. Don't worry though I will risk killing us all because I don't want to be considered an arse.

Your dogs are unrestrained in your vehicle, I have to tow that vehicle with your dogs bouncing about changing the weight balance on the towing vehicle. Your type of vehicle is prone to snaking when being towed and repeated changes in the weight, bought about by dogs moving from side to side in the vehicle will increase that possibility. Plus the dogs are unrestrained and likely to panic as a tow vehicle driver, I will be risking them escaping onto the motorway and risking our lives plus the lives of other road users. Plus its against the law to transport an unrestrained dog in a vehicle. Don't worry though I don't want to be an arse so I will transport them anyway.

The Maximum payload for your motorhome is 1400kg you have an awning, clothing for 3 people, water already loaded plus 12 dogs with crates in your vehicle. This puts you at least 200kg over your payload the towing bracket on your vehicle isn't designed to take that extra weight. I risk it breaking during towing as such your vehicle is likely to end up loose on the carriageway.

I only got this job last week after being unemployed for 12 months I have 4 children who need food and clothing. Company policy states I can't transport livestock but our larger vehicle can. I daren't risk my job.

All hypothetical but possible.

I agree leaving the recovery vehicle with flashing lights behind the van should have been done. However we don't know if he was called out to another vehicle that took greater priority such as a lone woman and child.

We are all advised to carry a warning triangle to place behind our broken down vehicles, this would have helped.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Goblin said:


> We may not have a problem with dogs. We have to allow that others do. Let's face it how many idiots own dogs and how many people on these forums have had problems with bad owners? Is it any wonder some people outside the dog scene may have reservations if experience has shown the negative?


The driver at no time would have had to enter the van to tow them to safety. There is no excuse for the driver refusing to at least keep the van safe until someone could be found that could tow the van..

If he had to keep getting in and out of the van with multiple loose dogs then I can see why some people may be wary, but that is not the case, all the driver had to do was hook the van up to be towed, pull the van off the motorway, unhook the van and then off he goes safe and sound...
He chose to be an arse instead which resulted in dogs dying and one person (that I know of) being injured (broken leg)...

If the policy stated that they did not transport dogs then it is the person that didn't check the policy before signing it....the policy is not clear, even in this thread people have said that the RAC have transported dogs so it is perfectly understandable that the policy holder wasn't aware that there would be a problem at the time of a breakdown.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> we have to pander to the minority.


I don't think 75% of households own dogs in the UK


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

Great news that Darren has been found!

Don't think can blame RAC for the accident could easily have happened soon after parking up, glad the owners weren't still in it. However seems a long time to be waiting with no assistance at all. Do AA have similar policy, as often its a 3rd party tow truck in past experience, were with RAC but each tow has been on back of truck when we've not had dogs in the car & at this time of year its not ideal but ok to leave in vehicle wouldn't like to risk it when vaguely warm in case you get stuck in traffic so no flow of air.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Darren has indeed be found!









As of yet no details of why the accident happened have been made public, I should think that they will want answers as they are all suffering after this incident. Hopefully the dogs make a full recovery.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Picklelily said:


> So I'm asthmatic and am allergic to dogs, should your dog bring on an asthma attack I will struggle to drive and put all of our lives in danger. Don't worry though I will risk killing us all because I don't want to be considered an arse.
> 
> No need for you to be anywhere near my dog whilst towing a vehicle to safety.
> 
> ...


As I have already said, if the RAC do not want to transport dogs then they should make it clear, not leave someone stranded because they decide they don't want to help that day....


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Right, my AA breakdown policy has expired this week, was going to go with the RAC but if the dogs may be a problem can I have suggestions who I should go with.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

It was a dreadful thing to have happened, and my heart goes out to Lisa and Carrie and their poor dogs.

They will always remember this day with horror - but once the immediate trauma has died down, I'm sure they will both be very grateful for the way the show community rallied round on facebook and helped to find their missing dogs. As the girl co-ordinating it all said - never has she been so thankful for mobile phones and the internet.

As for the RAC, we have been towed with dogs a few times - but we have always had to insist that they send a low loader so the car would be flat, rather then have the car tipped up and the dogs on a slant.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Much blame is being laid with the RAC but remarkably little about the lorry driver who actually drove into them and decimated their camper ?

Without their part we wouldn't even be having this conversation


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

EmCHammer said:


> Without their part we wouldn't even be having this conversation


Casting stones is easy though.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Probably was falling asleep, I have seen them snaking over the edges of the hard shoulder before. Fortunately that one decided to pull off at the services in front of me. Might affect his job for him unfortunately


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

EmCHammer said:


> Much blame is being laid with the RAC but remarkably little about the lorry driver who actually drove into them and decimated their camper ?
> 
> Without their part we wouldn't even be having this conversation


There could be many reasons why the lorry was in the hard shoulder, the driver could have had mechanical problems which will be discovered after an investigation.

Had the RAC not left the van on the motorway for 3 hours the van would not have been there to hit.


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## VickynHolly (Jun 23, 2013)

Poor dogs and humans. So sad to hear that 3 dogs have died.

The blame is with the lorry driver, and the RAC. Bet those two people wish they could turn back the clock.

If the RAC had moved the van none of this would of happened.

Glad to hear that Darren has been found.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I do partly blame the RAC after all if they had helped at first instead of prating around then the camper van wouldn't have been on the hard shoulder when the lorry went by. 

If these companies decide not to transport dogs there needs to be a "dog friendly" company since so many people own and show dogs, not so much about having the dog in the recovery truck but to refuse all together is just daft, I know If I'd broken down and refused recovery I'd remove the dogs and stand in the "safe zone" with them, I'd never leave them and I'm sure that's how these poor ladies felt hence why they were inside the camper when the lorry hit.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> There could be many reasons why the lorry was in the hard shoulder, the driver could have had mechanical problems which will be discovered after an investigation.


Of course there could, and I am not jumping to any conclusions; but at the end of the day it was the lorry driver who ploughed into them all I was trying to say is that there seems to be alot more hatred for the RAC than there is than for the lorry driver.

I am also not saying the RAC are not to blame, we don't know the full story either - could they have been calling another vehicle more suited to towing a motorhome... ? Am reading slightly different stories from different sources.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

How terribly sad, poor dogs


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm sorry if no one agrees, but blame doesn't lie with one party here, it lies with them all. 

I have seen people put cones behind their cars when they've been in the har shoulder. I've seen them leave lights on in the cab of the cars. There is always a chance you will break down, a couple of football cones don't cost that much or take up too much room - even a hi-vis Jacket thrown across the back gives you a bit more visibility. 

Also if I was carrying that many dogs I would tell the company that I ring. That way no surprises. I'd tell them exactly how many, how big and how they would be restrained. 

Blame also lies with the driver - whilst he could've been called away, he could've left them with something to make them easier to see. If he wasn't called away then he should've stayed. No doubt he did radio into their HQ and arrange a different truck come to tow. We don't know. 

And the lorry driver, if he wasn't having trouble - what was he doing in the hard shoulder. If he was having trouble - why was he going that fast? 

I don't think a witch hunt against breakdown companies is what needs to go on here. Most things involving dogs and other cars and transport is by discretion of the driver. 

Whichever way you go, what happened was a terrible tragedy.


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## Quirk (Nov 12, 2013)

How terrible  

Im glad the lost dog is now found 

Rip little ones :'(


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

What a terrible tragedy, so sad for their owners.

RIP little ones.


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Just found this....

LINK: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...4383024.108798.100000256593862&type=1&theater

R.I.P. poor dogs x


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I broke down on a wide road lovely sunny day you could see for miles
I took my dog out of the car and stood behind the crash barrier There was no hard shoulder on this road
There were 2 lanes running my way I stopped in the inner lane There was one lane with the opposite traffic going the other way
I phoned the AA and they said we will be there in about 30 mins.
Now I am looking up the road to my left which is where the AA van would be coming from and I see a huge Lorry coming down the road fast 
Now there is nothing stopping this lorry overtaking my car my flashers were on No other cars on the road at all
So he still makes no move to overtake my car just crashed into it at about 60mph and I watched it all he was on his mobile phone
My car spun around a number of times and was a total wreck all I can say is if I had been in the car with my dog neither of us would be here today
I called the police they spoke to the can driver who had stopped and they could not prosecute as they only had my word for what has happened so who knows if this driver was on a mobile phone not paying attention, who knows if he had fallen asleep at the wheel or had a health scare 
If I had a number of dogs I would have a collar and a lead for all of them so I would have taken them all out and stood somewhere safe with them but hindsight is a wonderful thing 
I just feel so sorry for the poor dogs that died those that were injured too but cant say who I blame really until the whole story is known if this makes and sense


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Goblin said:


> I don't think 75% of households own dogs in the UK


I would agree but 75% of people don't mind dogs, even if they don't own one.

I will be honest if you don't like animals, don't chose a job involving the general public.

This will cause the RAC to lose a lot of business by dog owners and people in general on principle.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

shirleystarr said:


> I broke down on a wide road lovely sunny day you could see for miles
> I took my dog out of the car and stood behind the crash barrier There was no hard shoulder on this road
> There were 2 lanes running my way I stopped in the inner lane There was one lane with the opposite traffic going the other way
> I phoned the AA and they said we will be there in about 30 mins.
> ...


No words, sorry mate


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

It's so sad those poor dogs, both dead and alive, imagine their trauma of them dealing with that then getting lost, poor mites..

The RAC will get really slammed for this, very sad story all round


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> As I have already said, if the RAC do not want to transport dogs then they should make it clear, not leave someone stranded because they decide they don't want to help that day....


I don't know how to get your responses within my quote to appear so I copy and paste

So I'm asthmatic and am allergic to dogs, should your dog bring on an asthma attack I will struggle to drive and put all of our lives in danger. Don't worry though I will risk killing us all because I don't want to be considered an arse.

No need for you to be anywhere near my dog whilst towing a vehicle to safety.
You will be covered in hair and dander though

Your dogs are unrestrained in your vehicle, I have to tow that vehicle with your dogs bouncing about changing the weight balance on the towing vehicle.

Irrelevant as the driver didn't even go to the scene so wouldn't have known if the dogs were restrained or otherwise.

*I don't know whether he went or not from your original post but thanks for clarifying *

Your type of vehicle is prone to snaking when being towed and repeated changes in the weight, bought about by dogs moving from side to side in the vehicle will increase that possibility. Plus the dogs are unrestrained and likely to panic as a tow vehicle driver, I will be risking them escaping onto the motorway and risking our lives plus the lives of other road users. Plus its against the law to transport an unrestrained dog in a vehicle. Don't worry though I don't want to be an arse so I will transport them anyway.

Can I ask, how do you know that the dogs were unrestrained? 
Oh that's right, you don't. So I'm asthmatic and am allergic to dogs, should your dog bring on an asthma attack I will struggle to drive and put all of our lives in danger. Don't worry though I will risk killing us all because I don't want to be considered an arse.

*I repeat do you not understand hypothetical? None of us here know if the dogs were restrained or not, the reasons for refusal to carry other than policy being at drivers the discretion. Yet we are all quick to severely criticise the RAC*
No need for you to be anywhere near my dog whilst towing a vehicle to safety.

Your dogs are unrestrained in your vehicle, I have to tow that vehicle with your dogs bouncing about changing the weight balance on the towing vehicle.

Irrelevant as the driver didn't even go to the scene so wouldn't have known if the dogs were restrained or otherwise.

Your type of vehicle is prone to snaking when being towed and repeated changes in the weight, bought about by dogs moving from side to side in the vehicle will increase that possibility. Plus the dogs are unrestrained and likely to panic as a tow vehicle driver, I will be risking them escaping onto the motorway and risking our lives plus the lives of other road users. Plus its against the law to transport an unrestrained dog in a vehicle. Don't worry though I don't want to be an arse so I will transport them anyway.

Can I ask, how do you know that the dogs were unrestrained? 
Oh that's right, you don't.

*Repeat again I clearly stated my scenario's were hypothetical.*

The Maximum payload for your motorhome is 1400kg you have an awning, clothing for 3 people, water already loaded plus 12 dogs with crates in your vehicle. This puts you at least 200kg over your payload the towing bracket on your vehicle isn't designed to take that extra weight. I risk it breaking during towing as such your vehicle is likely to end up loose on the carriageway.

No, being a towing company you will have a vehicle that could cope with the weight-load

*You aren't understanding about the vehicle being towed being over weight, this has nothing to do with the capabilities of the vehicle doing the towing.*

I only got this job last week after being unemployed for 12 months I have 4 children who need food and clothing. Company policy states I can't transport livestock but our larger vehicle can. I daren't risk my job.

Err, company policy says nothing of the sort about dogs, it states driver discretion, so again irrelevant.

*But RAC towing and recovery is often franchised out we know nothing about the actual company in that area*

All hypothetical but possible.

I agree leaving the recovery vehicle with flashing lights behind the van should have been done. However we don't know if he was called out to another vehicle that took greater priority such as a lone woman and child.

Again they are a towing company with many, many drivers...a lone woman with a child is of no greater risk than anyone else at the time of this accident... I know that because someone I know has been left for multiple hours with the excuse that is is daytime so no rush.

We are all advised to carry a warning triangle to place behind our broken down vehicles, this would have helped.

Do you know that they didn't have a warning sign?

Agree I don't know, but I considered it was a good time to remind everyone that you should carry one

The Maximum payload for your motorhome is 1400kg you have an awning, clothing for 3 people, water already loaded plus 12 dogs with crates in your vehicle. This puts you at least 200kg over your payload the towing bracket on your vehicle isn't designed to take that extra weight. I risk it breaking during towing as such your vehicle is likely to end up loose on the carriageway.

No, being a towing company you will have a vehicle that could cope with the weight-load

I only got this job last week after being unemployed for 12 months I have 4 children who need food and clothing. Company policy states I can't transport livestock but our larger vehicle can. I daren't risk my job.

Err, company policy says nothing of the sort about dogs, it states driver discretion, so again irrelevant.

*All hypothetical but possible.*

I agree leaving the recovery vehicle with flashing lights behind the van should have been done. However we don't know if he was called out to another vehicle that took greater priority such as a lone woman and child.

Again they are a towing company with many, many drivers...a lone woman with a child is of no greater risk than anyone else at the time of this accident... I know that because someone I know has been left for multiple hours with the excuse that is is daytime so no rush.

We are all advised to carry a warning triangle to place behind our broken down vehicles, this would have helped.

Do you know that they didn't have a warning sign?

Are you not comprehending the meaning of hypothetical here?

I offering you scenarios to explain why at this point you can't criticise anyone reasonably. I get tired of the rant and blame people with minimal evidence on any side hence my post offering suggestions as to why we shouldn't criticise the RAC until we have all the facts.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

If someone can explain how I make my other post clearer I would be most grateful.

To clarify what I'm trying to inexpertly say is that we are all criticising the RAC without knowing the full circumstances.

There is much irony in people taking offence at my post suggesting reasons why the RAC might not transport the motorhome, arguing that I don't know the circumstances affecting the poor people involved in the accident.

I still say its one of the saddest stories I have hard this week and everyone involved must be devastated. 

We do say do you research when buying a puppy the same applies to anything your purchase, particularly anything with a policy document.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

This is so sad. Poor dogs and their owners


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

If these people were dog exhibitors, then the dogs wouldn't be running around the Motorhome unrestrained, as someone earlier supposed, they would have been in crates surely, so therefore the RAC driver shouldn't have had a problem transporting everybody to safety of the motorway. The impact would have probably left some of them loose but theoretically if they were all loose inside the Van they would have all run off.

I have a Motor Home and my dog is in a crate inside the Van, for all our safety including his. Whilst in Scotland we had to be recovered from Glencoe to Dundee and the AA transported all of us including Alfie inside the low loader, no problem.

Its no using arguing at the end of the day, who should carry the blame, unnecessary death, suffering and stress occured by the incorrect decision made and the reality of it is, there could have been children inside that Van, along with the dogs.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> If these people were dog exhibitors, then the dogs wouldn't be running around the Motorhome unrestrained, as someone earlier supposed, they would have been in crates surely


One would think so but how did one dog run off if in crates. We don't know.

What we all should do is look at the safety of our own dogs when transporting them so if it's a painful lesson, it's a lesson we learn from.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

There is always the possibility that the crates broke or bent on impact allowing the dogs to escape.

I do agree though Goblin its a timely reminder to check our own transport arrangements and roadside recovery policies.

I know I looked very hard at mine because of all the publicity surrounding this within the camping and caravanning community.


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## SpringerLex (Jul 24, 2012)

The dogs were restrained in travelling crates inside the motorhome. Bear in mind that the dogs involved were corgis, crested and toy poodle. I do not know any travel crate that could withstand the impact of a lorry ploughing into it so there is your answer with regards as to how the dogs ran off after the incident. 

As for the allergy excuse I saw previously. The RAC driver had NO reason to have to go inside the motorhome where the dogs were crated. He/she could have sufficiently did their job or at least they could have towed the motorhome off the hard shoulder.

The RAC have seriously dropped the ball on this. It's a disgrace.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I haven't read all this as I am still in shock, these ladies are very good friends of mine and in fact my two girls have travelled to many shows with them both in the UK and abroad. The dogs are always travelled in airline approved crates. The RAC refused to take them as there was so many dogs which they claim were unrestrained. The young lass that arrived here last night from Russia is at present in intensive care with a broken femur, collapsed lung and 3 spinal fractures. Please all pray for her recovery, so so sad for the little dogs that lost their lives, all of them had the most wonderful temperaments RIP Sweetie, Eva and the wonderful Baby Rage. Not too sure if the fourth has survived a little Chinese crested puppy :nonod:


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

SpringerLex said:


> I do not know any travel crate that could withstand the impact of a lorry ploughing into it so there is your answer with regards as to how the dogs ran off after the incident.
> 
> As for the allergy excuse I saw previously. The RAC driver had NO reason to have to go inside the motorhome where the dogs were crated. He/she could have sufficiently did their job or at least they could have towed the motorhome off the hard shoulder.
> 
> The RAC have seriously dropped the ball on this. It's a disgrace.


I agree wholeheartedly, the Driver could have accessed the Drivers seat without entering the main part of the Van were the dogs were being kept. Reports say it was 3 women one of which is seriously hurt, and they were left there 3 hours waiting before the truck crashed into them at high speed, reports say it was only a couple of miles to a service station.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Attended a health and safety course once. Your life expectancy if you remain in your car on the hard shoulder is 40 minutes. 

That's why I got Bess out of the car and behind the barrier when we broke down. 

I'm not aware of any law that says you can't take animals out of the car - but presumably they have to be properly restrained or in crates. 

Such a sad sad thing to happen. RIP little ones.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

For anyone looking to change breakdown check this one out

AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets

Today I have felt so helpless, both the girls and I were judging so couldn't go to help out, just so glad that the dog show fraternity pulled together to go to the aid of these wonderful people and their dogs. Will also add that at least one of the dogs is a support dog


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

The RAC are being pulled to pieces on facebook by the show people and have lost a lot of customers today.

There is also an update on the injured woman she has a broken femour, a collasped lunge and spinal fracturs in 3 places. All 3 are now at the hospital with the other 2 women suffering from delayed shock.


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## gwenlais (Nov 23, 2013)

Dylan the Cardigan Corgi has been found. Carrie and Lisa in advanced shock, are not injured but their young assistant is in intensive care.Two lovely ladies, devoted to dogs, who will bend over backwards to help anyone and everyone, certainly did not deserve this to happen to them. Maybe the RAC refused to tow them as their vehicle is /was a large RSV and suitable for a low loader.Something to look into.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Freyja said:


> The RAC are being pulled to pieces on facebook by the show people and have lost a lot of customers today.
> 
> There is also an update on the injured woman she has a broken femour, a collasped lunge and spinal fracturs in 3 places. All 3 are now at the hospital with the other 2 women suffering from delayed shock.


I bet those poor women have been running on adrenaline all day , which could mask injuries  I was so shocked when this popped up on my FB this morning.

It's one thing getting out of a car and sitting on the side of the road for a hour or so. This was early morning wasn't it ? I can guess it was freezing and they had been there for hours ! 
My thoughts and well wishes go out to them.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

absolutely disgusted RAC! I just cannot believe the cheek of refusing.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

5.40 am, the young Russian lass only arrived at Heathrow yesterday. She spent the summer with them and went home for uni. A lovely lass who is in our thoughts tonight, as are our two good friends. Still keep looking at the photos and although horrific cannot believe anyone got out alive !


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

shirleystarr said:


> I broke down on a wide road lovely sunny day you could see for miles
> I took my dog out of the car and stood behind the crash barrier There was no hard shoulder on this road
> There were 2 lanes running my way I stopped in the inner lane There was one lane with the opposite traffic going the other way
> I phoned the AA and they said we will be there in about 30 mins.
> ...


Jeeeeeeez....... No words!!!!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Firedog said:


> Right, my AA breakdown policy has expired this week, was going to go with the RAC but if the dogs may be a problem can I have suggestions who I should go with.


Will be calling my breakdown cover Britannia next week to ask what their policy is re dogs.

I'll also go and chat with the garage next door to me, who are 24hr agents for Britannia (and who would be the ones to recover me if I broke down locally). However I will say that I don't automatically expect them to be able to travel in the cab with me - as long as they are safely secured in my car being towed then that (although not 100% ideal) is what has to happen, if it has to happen..... except in very hot weather.



mummyschnauzer said:


> If these people were dog exhibitors, then the dogs wouldn't be running around the Motorhome unrestrained, as someone earlier supposed


There is no way you could or *WOULD* have 12 dogs loose in any kind of vehicle.



Picklelily said:


> There is always the possibility that the crates broke or bent on impact allowing the dogs to escape.


 Did you see the photos of the wreckage? Nothing was in one piece.

I'm not sure what's better now - something that does withstand impact but traps a live animal, possibly risking worse injury as a result, or one which at least allows an animal to escape unhurt from that kind of collision.

The repercussions have already gone the whole way around the dog world. Rescues, agility and other dog sports folk - anyone who travels regularly with their dogs - has been shocked by this and will no doubt be on the phone to their own breakdown agents in the next few days.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

shirleystarr said:


> I broke down on a wide road lovely sunny day you could see for miles
> I took my dog out of the car and stood behind the crash barrier There was no hard shoulder on this road
> There were 2 lanes running my way I stopped in the inner lane There was one lane with the opposite traffic going the other way
> I phoned the AA and they said we will be there in about 30 mins.
> ...


Good grief thank goodness you were out of the car and disgraceful that the driver wasn't prosecuted.

Wishing the injured people and dogs in this instance a speedy recovery both mentally and physically.


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> absolutely disgusted RAC! I just cannot believe the cheek of refusing.


WOW. you people need to find out the facts before making accusations about what happened, and damaging a companies reputation / suggesting that they use an alternative company, based on assumptions, is dispicable.

A Statement from the RAC states:
"we were en-route to recover the caravan when the crash occured.
We are extremely saddened to learn that a young woman has been injured and that three dogs have lost their lives as a result of this incident.
We had despatched a specialist recovery vehicle to attend, but unfortunately the accident occurred while the vehicle was en route to the scene."

Surely the correct place to lay the blame is with the truck driver.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I know these are back to front but I just want to repost this for those that didn't see it and as Merlin's mum says about dogs being loose. These would have been in airline crates 



tashi said:


> I haven't read all this as I am still in shock, these ladies are very good friends of mine and in fact my two girls have travelled to many shows with them both in the UK and abroad. The dogs are always travelled in airline approved crates. The RAC refused to take them as there was so many dogs which they claim were unrestrained. The young lass that arrived here last night from Russia is at present in intensive care with a broken femur, collapsed lung and 3 spinal fractures. Please all pray for her recovery, so so sad for the little dogs that lost their lives, all of them had the most wonderful temperaments RIP Sweetie, Eva and the wonderful Baby Rage. Not too sure if the fourth has survived a little Chinese crested puppy :nonod:





MerlinsMum said:


> Will be calling my breakdown cover Britannia next week to ask what their policy is re dogs.
> 
> I'll also go and chat with the garage next door to me, who are 24hr agents for Britannia (and who would be the ones to recover me if I broke down locally). However I will say that I don't automatically expect them to be able to travel in the cab with me - as long as they are safely secured in my car being towed then that (although not 100% ideal) is what has to happen, if it has to happen..... except in very hot weather.
> 
> ...


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## jonb (Nov 15, 2012)

we`ve broken down once or twice....usually with at least 2dogs in our van,never thought to mention it..
the last time we forgot the dogs were in the van until the bloke jumped in and said ohh dogs!
I had a loan car from the RAC and took the dogs in it,they didn`t say I couldn`t
My heart goes out to those poor Dogs and people


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

tashi said:


> I know these are back to front but I just want to repost this for those that didn't see it and as Merlin's Mum says about dogs being loose. These would have been in airline crates


Thanks Tashi. 
Hoping there is some better news in the morning re your friends and the surviving dogs xx


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> A Statement from the RAC states:
> "we were en-route to recover the caravan when the crash occured.
> We are extremely saddened to learn that a young woman has been injured and that three dogs have lost their lives as a result of this incident.
> We had despatched a specialist recovery vehicle to attend, but unfortunately the accident occurred while the vehicle was en route to the scene."


Personally, I would like to know why they had been there *3 HOURS* with no help, and the recovery vehicle *STILL* hadn't arrived?

Facts or no facts, that's a heck of a long time to be stuck on the hard shoulder in the dark and freezing cold!!!

If the RAC were going to leave me for that long, dogs or no dogs, I'd be furious.


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> Personally, I would like to know why they had been there *3 HOURS* with no help, and the recovery vehicle *STILL* hadn't arrived?
> 
> Facts or no facts, that's a heck of a long time to be stuck on the hard shoulder in the dark and freezing cold!!!
> 
> If the RAC were going to leave me for that long, dogs or no dogs, I'd be furious.


Not that I know the facts, but living near the M40, and using it frequently, I find it odd that 3 hours had passed and not even a 'Traffic Officer' turned up - I haven't seen a car on the hard shoulder without one of these vehicles with it in a long time.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

The Voice of Reason said:


> WOW. you people need to find out the facts before making accusations about what happened, and damaging a companies reputation / suggesting that they use an alternative company, based on assumptions, is dispicable.
> 
> A Statement from the RAC states:
> "we were en-route to recover the caravan when the crash occured.
> ...


Course it is, it was just unlucky circumstance that during those three hours of waiting for a specialist vehicle the lorry driver who was clearly not concentrating for whatever reason crashed into them.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

so did someone turn up who couldnt transport them all so they had to send a different van or what ever out?


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

It took the RAC 7 hours to get the right rescue vehicle to my daughter when the hired motorhome broke down in the New Forest after Bournemouth Champ Show this summer. 
Thankfully they'd got it into Sainsbury's car park so they were warm, dry, fed and watered and the dogs had a bit of grass!


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Wiz201 said:


> Course it is, it was just unlucky circumstance that during those three hours of waiting for a specialist vehicle the *lorry driver who was clearly not concentrating *for whatever reason crashed into them.


Again more speculation. You do not know the circumstances of the crash just as you do not know the circumstances of the RAC recovery.


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

Westy said:


> It took the RAC 7 hours to get the right rescue vehicle to my daughter when the hired motorhome broke down in the New Forest after Bournemouth Champ Show this summer.
> Thankfully they'd got it into Sainsbury's car park so they were warm, dry, fed and watered and the dogs had a bit of grass!


Annoying as this may be, the RAC (and all other recovery services) will have put this as a low priority due to the location meaning that they were not in immediate danger.


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## Roger Downes (Sep 17, 2013)

Really shocking the events on the M40 today. My thoughts are with injured person and of course the dead and injured animals. Although this may not be the case in this accident, the amount of people driving while holding a mobile phone to their ear is a shocker. On several occasions i had to swerve in my car to miss a oncoming vehicle on my side of the road, with the other driver too busy on the phone to control their vehicle whilst they were pulling out of a side turning.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Please can we not speculate and lay blame on anyone on this thread, as far as I know RAC attended but would not transport it due to the dogs, the driver informed them it was up to the individual driver whether they recovered or not. 

Can we just remember that 3 dogs lost their lives today, one young girl is in intensive care with broken ribs, collapsed lung, 3 spinal fractures and a broken femur. This lass is a strong young lass and will fight with all her 6 stone 4 will allow her. My two good friends are in deep shock as are the dogs who survived. 


PLEASE do not lose sight of this and keep this thread for those that wish to be updated.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

The Voice of Reason said:


> WOW. you people need to find out the facts before making accusations about what happened, and damaging a companies reputation / suggesting that they use an alternative company, based on assumptions, is dispicable.
> 
> A Statement from the RAC states:
> "we were en-route to recover the caravan when the crash occured.
> ...


Yes the blame does lie with the lorry driver and I hope he is prosecuted for dangerous driving and the book thrown at him. I doubt he will I remember when a lorry driver hit my OH when he was waiting at a red light the lorry driver was on his phone he got his hand smacked and had to go on a driving awareness course.

But the question still remains why were 3 women left stranded on the hard shoulder of the motorway for 3 hours in the pitch black? I thought the RAC were one of the break down companies who said they would be with you in an hour so why were they still waiting after 3 hours. I know when my car wouldn't start earlier this year and I rang the RAC they said they would be there in less than an hour and I had to fill in a questionaire and one of the questions was did they arrive within and hour.

If the break down vehicle had got there within the hour as they claim the accident would not have happened.

Our thoughts are with the ladies that are injured and for the dogs that have lost their lives or been injured in this tragic accident.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

One of my concerns is medical insurance for the young lady. Now may not be the sensitive time to mention it but is she insured for the medical treatment being from outside the EU? If not it may be sensible to lay the groundwork for possible later donations if it becomes something which would be beneficial. I don't know what the legal situation is, the lorry driver's insurance may be involved. Just feel it's something it may be worth investigating, considering and potentially plan for.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

EmCHammer said:


> Much blame is being laid with the RAC but remarkably little about the lorry driver who actually drove into them and decimated their camper ?
> 
> Without their part we wouldn't even be having this conversation


yeah but if the RAC had of removed the Van on a low loader, when the women first appealed for help, 3 hours before hand they wouldn't have been in that particular place for the truck to smash into.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

mummyschnauzer said:


> If these people were dog exhibitors, then the dogs wouldn't be running around the Motorhome unrestrained, as someone earlier supposed, they would have been in crates surely, so therefore the RAC driver shouldn't have had a problem transporting everybody to safety of the motorway. The impact would have probably left some of them loose but theoretically if they were all loose inside the Van they would have all run off.
> 
> I have a Motor Home and my dog is in a crate inside the Van, for all our safety including his. Whilst in Scotland we had to be recovered from Glencoe to Dundee *and the AA transported all of us including Alfie inside the low loader, no problem.*
> 
> Its no using arguing at the end of the day, who should carry the blame, unnecessary death, suffering and stress occured by the incorrect decision made and the reality of it is, there could have been children inside that Van, along with the dogs.


There's a huge difference between transporting 1 dog and passengers and transporting 12 dogs and passengers. Having 12 loose dogs in a cab would be a hazard in itself. From memory the last time I used a recovery service, they would not have allowed any passengers (including children) to have remained in the towed vehicle.

I feel for all those involved.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Goblin said:


> One of my concerns is medical insurance for the young lady. Now may not be the sensitive time to mention it but is she insured for the medical treatment being from outside the EU? If not it may be sensible to lay the groundwork for possible later donations if it becomes something which would be beneficial. I don't know what the legal situation is, the lorry driver's insurance may be involved. Just feel it's something it may be worth investigating, considering and potentially plan for.


Thanks for bringing this up, she underwent the first of her ops tonight, I don't know about her insurance but guess it is something she will have in place. The dog show folk have already started a place for donations to help out to replace dog crates etc.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

rocco33 said:


> There's a huge difference between transporting 1 dog and passengers and transporting 12 dogs and passengers. Having 12 loose dogs in a cab would be a hazard in itself.
> 
> I feel for all those involved.


Can I just say they refused to recover the vehicle before the crash whilst the dogs were still safely in their crates


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> There's a huge difference between transporting 1 dog and passengers and transporting 12 dogs and passengers. If the dogs escaped (and judging by the wreckage) their secure cages were probably wrecked anyway. Having 12 loose dogs in a cab would be a hazard in itself.


And there's an even huger difference between towing a large campervan to a safe place, than having to deal with the aftermath of a serious accident. 

This isn't about what happened after, it's about what led up to the incident in the first place. 12 dogs or none, it would have been the same.

And it could have been prevented.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tashi said:


> Thanks for bringing this up, she underwent the first of her ops tonight, I don't know about her insurance but guess it is something she will have in place. The dog show folk have already started a place for donations to help out to replace dog crates etc.


maybe worth sharing a link to that,if allowed


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

we love bsh's said:


> maybe worth sharing a link to that,if allowed


I guess for anyone that wants to contribute if they pm me I can give them the link.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

What a terrible tragedy  . 

I'm a bit puzzled here though - who decides whether or not an RAC van goes to a call-out? I had to call the RAC in May when I was travelling on the A1; they knew I had dogs in a dog box in the back of the car as I told them over the phone but they still came and sorted out my car. They wouldn't have known if it needed towing until they arrived at the scene. Was I just lucky?


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

shamykebab said:


> What a terrible tragedy  .
> 
> I'm a bit puzzled here though - who decides whether or not an RAC van goes to a call-out? I had to call the RAC in May when I was travelling on the A1; they knew I had dogs in a dog box in the back of the car as I told them over the phone but they still came and sorted out my car. They wouldn't have known if it needed towing until they arrived at the scene. Was I just lucky?


No, you were dealt with in a sensible manner by an organization that should treat every customer in the same way, that is, you are paying for a service, amongst other things, one of them being should you find yourselves, broken down on a road or motoway, that this organization enables you, your passengers and a dog or dogs, to reach a place of safety, as promptly and speedily as possible, by them.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

shamykebab said:


> What a terrible tragedy  .
> 
> I'm a bit puzzled here though - who decides whether or not an RAC van goes to a call-out? I had to call the RAC in May when I was travelling on the A1; they knew I had dogs in a dog box in the back of the car as I told them over the phone but they still came and sorted out my car. They wouldn't have known if it needed towing until they arrived at the scene. Was I just lucky?


No you were in a car which is very different from a motorhome in terms of vehicle recovery.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Ah, ok, thanks. Was confused as gathered from the RAC FB page that the reason there was a delay was due to there being dogs in the vehicle.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

shamykebab said:


> Ah, ok, thanks. Was confused as gathered from the RAC FB page that the reason there was a delay was due to there being dogs in the vehicle.


Correct, it is up to the driver if they agree to transport the dogs. In this instance the driver decided against it !!!!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Goblin said:


> One of my concerns is medical insurance for the young lady. Now may not be the sensitive time to mention it but is she insured for the medical treatment being from outside the EU? If not it may be sensible to lay the groundwork for possible later donations if it becomes something which would be beneficial. I don't know what the legal situation is, the lorry driver's insurance may be involved. Just feel it's something it may be worth investigating, considering and potentially plan for.


I believe foreign students are covered by the NHS if they are registered with a UK college or university, but I'm not 100%.

I think the information said she was from one of the eastern block countries that have EU membership she will be entitled to free treatment.

One thing I am certain of in a British hospital she won't be left in a cardboard leg cast for 3 days, with multiple fractures to her leg and hand requiring surgery, whilst the hospital fills out insurance paperwork. Which is what happened to a friend of mine in Peru recently.

Thank god for the compassion of the NHS. We may complain at times about it and the number of foreign patients. But god when you hear a story like this accident and this poor girl, it makes you exceptional grateful for it.

Please keep us updated on their progress.


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

Picklelily said:


> No you were in a car which is very different from a motorhome in terms of vehicle recovery.


I agree. At risk of further speculation, based on the photographs of the accident, the motorhome in question looks to be a Dethleffs Advantage A7871-2, or certainly another twin axle motorhome.
This has an unladen weight of over 4 tonnes (probably closer to 5 tonnes with cargo and dogs inside) - well over what a standard RAC van is capable of towing safely, so even if the RAC did turn up quickly in a van that could have made a roadside repair, they would not have been able to tow it to safety until a suitable recovery vehicle arrived. 
I'm guessing that the vehicles over 4 tonnes are not part of the RAC's core business, so they would have had to outsource a suitable vehicle to do the recovery, the logistics of which take time, especially at 5:40am, when the majority of the drivers of such vehicles would be in bed.

RIP to the animals who have lost their lives and I wish those injured a speedy recovery, but laying the blame on others (without the facts) really grates with me.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> This has an unladen weight of over 4 tonnes (probably closer to 5 tonnes with cargo and dogs inside) - well over what a standard RAC van is capable of towing safely, so even if the RAC did turn up quickly in a van that could have made a roadside repair, they would not have been able to tow it to safety until a suitable recovery vehicle arrived..


So - forgive me, but in that case, should they not have had some kind of emergency measure to put in place, until a suitable vehicle did arrive?

What, exactly, is their remit? 
And is a large stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder not considered a hazard to other traffic?


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

Yes a large vehicle stationary on the hard shoulder is a hazard, but it it the police's job to minimise the risk resulting from this, not the RAC - The RAC's job is to recover the broken down vehicle in a safe manner.
According to their website, they do not cover vehicles over 3.5 tonnes, nor do they cover vehicles containing livestock.

It therefore seems that their policy is not to assist vehicles with livestock in, but will sometimes do so at the driver's disgresion.
For all we know, the RAC could then be going out of their way to help someone who's vehicle is not within their remit, and subsequently get slammed for taking too long to get a suitable vehicle to the breakdown and "causing the accident".

There does also appear to be some discontinuity between the driver 'refusing to tow a vehicle with dogs in', and the RAC not actually turning up before the accident - surely these are mutually exclusive.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Do you know there is much blame being laid at the RAC's door, what seems to be forgotten is the fact that they were hit up the butt whilst on the hard shoulder by an articulated lorry ! One wonders how he cannot have seen this white large RV on the hard shoulder. This is a photo taken yesterday, the yellow marks showing where they were, look just how far he shunted them ! Also seen on here is one of the travelling boxes they use for the dogs.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Took this from the RAC FB page

''As todays incident involved a large motorhome we had to ensure the correct recovery vehicle attended.''


Why's everyone so quick to blame the RAC? but seem to forget that it was the truck driver who caused this.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Looking at that photo its a wonder anyone got out alive 
Hope the young lady recovers from so many dreadful injuries


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I looked for the RAC FB page, couldn't find it, so sorry for these people and the poor dogs does anyone know where the injured dogs have been taken to
It was the first thing I though about when I woke up this morning


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Only one badly injured still in the vets, all the others back at home safe.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh dear poor thing, I hope the ones killed didn't suffer and were killed outright, i hope this little dog recovers ok the others must have been in terrible shock, cant bear to think of them suffering, 
I hope the poor young girl recovers well too, although it will be a long time for her i guess


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

tashi said:


> Do you know there is much blame being laid at the RAC's door, what seems to be forgotten is the fact that they were hit up the butt whilst on the hard shoulder by an articulated lorry ! One wonders how he cannot have seen this white large RV on the hard shoulder. This is a photo taken yesterday, the yellow marks showing where they were, look just how far he shunted them ! Also seen on here is one of the travelling boxes they use for the dogs.
> 
> View attachment 127983





dandogman said:


> Took this from the RAC FB page
> 
> ''As today's incident involved a large motorhome we had to ensure the correct recovery vehicle attended.''
> 
> Why's everyone so quick to blame the RAC? but seem to forget that it was the truck driver who caused this.


As I understand it - the RAC refused to come out - and this vehicle was left for *3 hours *on the hard shoulder.

None of us know the full cause of the accident or why the truck hit it - the truck could have pulled into the hard shoulder because of vehicle difficulties and would unquestionably, unlike most modern cars, have taken time to stop.

I've broken down on the side of the motorway and because of how the land lay, combined with my mobility issues, was unable to leave the vehicle - it was a terrifying experience 

We are with the AA - three times they've come out to us with dogs on board - 3 times they've been able to resolve my problem at the roadside getting us on our way.

================================

The question really should be did the RAC know the vehicle would have to be towed and how without going out to it?

The AA typically won't take the dogs in their cabs presenting plausible reasons why - but will tow vehicles with the animals in them.

I've seen weights etc mentioned, I don't know anything about the vehicles' weight etc - but then surely, neither would the RAC without going out to the scene - or did they go out to do an assessment and advice a different vehicle was on its way?

We all know how much the media love sensationalism - which means we don't always get all the facts - there may / may not be more to this that many of us will ever get to know unless we know the people involved personally.

=================================

The main concern based on what has been reported is that the RAC abandoned customers because they had dogs on board - and as there are so many of us travelling with dogs these days - there is a very real risk it could hit them financially as people seek alternate breakdown providers.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Whatever the causes or reason behind it - whilst most of us won't carry that many dogs at one time, the actual incident is something which could hit ANY of us travelling with dogs - there but for the grace of god..........................

Whoever is to blame, the outcome was tragic, but could have been a lot worse - the last remaining missing dog has now been found.

Run free to those dogs who sadly lost their lives - it truly is a miracle that no humans were killed in this carnage.

On the way back from Bath CH show we witnessed an accident which saw a Vizsla fly from the back of the car hit and bolt off up the Severn bridge, followed in hot pursuit by one of my passengers. They had their guardian angel on their side that day as both dog, owner and my friend returned safely - and the police who I called whilst waiting with my heart in my mouth were excellent, removing owner and dogs to a place of safety so they could get a lift home.

==============================

Lets hope the full facts of this incident DO come to light - because I believe it to be of great importance to ANYONE travelling with dogs, even on an irregular basis -

But this is something many of us do almost weekly, sometimes from one end of the country to the other - and it is important to know we have some peace of mind in the event that we need the emergency breakdown cover to prevent the repeat of such tragic accidents.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I used to drive a transit van and the times when I broke down, I always used to tell them that I had a transit but they always sent out a vehicle that wasn't capable of towing it, then I had to wait again for the other to turn up.

The worse thing was that I told them what I thought was wrong and it couldn't be fixed at road side and I was right.

Also I do know that if there is a van load of kids in a break down situation, someone will have to take some of the children and find another form of transport to get home, if it cant be fixed at the roadside.

Sad that dogs lost their lives and people got hurt.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Dogs aren't livestock. Rac also have flat beds which could have transported it.

I've been towed once by the AA. Dog was left in boot at drivers request, we only has a few miles to go though. I did take him out as we were stuck on a fast a road with no hard shoulder in complete darkness. I'd imagine unless you have some crates to hand it would be very hard to contain 12 dogs near the toad safely.

ETA according to several reports the RAC have said a suitable vehicle was on its way.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

RAC did know the size of the vehicle, they did come but refused to move it due to the dogs on board, wouldn't have been safe to remove the dogs from the vehicle as it was a german RV and the doors are on the r/h side. 

Two of the dogs were killed outright, one was killed on the road but again outright. Have no update as of yet on the poor puppy in the vets.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh , bless him, at the vets, what a terrible time for all concerned, are the 2 other ladies home now,or still in hospital, ? it will take a long time to recover from this mentally and emotionally, and also losing their poor dogs this way
Nothing been on the news,as far as I have seen, wonder what happened to the lorry driver? probably being questioned by the police still


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Just a total nightmare for all concerned


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

tashi said:


> Do you know there is much blame being laid at the RAC's door, what seems to be forgotten is the fact that they were hit up the butt whilst on the hard shoulder by an articulated lorry ! One wonders how he cannot have seen this white large RV on the hard shoulder. This is a photo taken yesterday, the yellow marks showing where they were, look just how far he shunted them ! Also seen on here is one of the travelling boxes they use for the dogs.
> 
> View attachment 127983


Looking at this photo has reduced me to Tears. Those poor people and their Dogs.
Very Very Sad.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

jaycee05 said:


> Oh , bless him, at the vets, what a terrible time for all concerned, are the 2 other ladies home now,or still in hospital, ? it will take a long time to recover from this mentally and emotionally, and also losing their poor dogs this way
> Nothing been on the news,as far as I have seen, wonder what happened to the lorry driver? probably being questioned by the police still


The other two ladies are at home, all dogs are special but there was one very special one to me lost in this smash


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> RAC did know the size of the vehicle, they did come but refused to move it due to the dogs on board, wouldn't have been safe to remove the dogs from the vehicle as it was a german RV and the doors are on the r/h side.
> 
> Two of the dogs were killed outright, one was killed on the road but again outright. Have no update as of yet on the poor puppy in the vets.


I'm sure they did, but in any event they will most likely dispatch the nearest vehicle whether their own or contracted in the hope that the vehicle could be repaired and put back on the road ASAP.

If they refused and there was no hope of recovery then surely the police should have been immediately informed until suitable means of recovery were found. Given the poor lighting conditions, the police would have been able to slow traffic via the gantry signs and cone off a section and add warning lights to avoid potential accidents.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> I'm sure they did, but in any event they will most likely dispatch the nearest vehicle whether their own or contracted in the hope that the vehicle could be repaired and put back on the road ASAP.
> 
> If they refused and there was no hope of recovery then surely the police should have been immediately informed until suitable means of recovery were found. Given the poor lighting conditions, the police would have been able to slow traffic via the gantry signs and cone off a section and add warning lights to avoid potential accidents.


Theoretically - this should have been picked up by the ANPR cameras - the M40 particularly is littered with them - it's never been one of my favourite motorways - it's "boring" which might sound stupid - but that means it is far more likely that people could doze off at the wheel.

Tashi - you seem to know more of the facts than are being reported through the media - I am very sorry for the loss of the dog which meant a lot to you and the others that lost their lives.

I think there are lessons to be learnt all round from incidents like this - my OH is always insistent that the number of dogs we carry is linked in to the number of people we are travelling with - which makes a lot of sense - but then we have a medium / large breed - and because we have limited space - it's rare we would ever have more than 4 dogs and 3 to 4 people in the car.

One of the reasons the rescue services advise customers to leave their cars when stuck on the hard shoulder is this very one - i.e. the risk of being hit by another vehicle.

Those who are members of rescue services, if they haven't done so already, need to establish what exactly will happen in the event of a breakdown if they have dogs / other animals on board - the higher end of these services cost a considerable amount of money (I pay not far off £300 a year) - you certainly don't want to left high and dry in the event you need help - because effectively, you are paying for nothing.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld

*Just got this from FB.
So sad for everyone involved.*


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

swarthy said:


> Theoretically - this should have been picked up by the ANPR cameras - the M40 particularly is littered with them - it's never been one of my favourite motorways - it's "boring" which might sound stupid - but that means it is far more likely that people could doze off at the wheel.
> 
> Tashi - you seem to know more of the facts than are being reported through the media - I am very sorry for the loss of the dog which meant a lot to you and the others that lost their lives.
> 
> ...


Ideally the RAC recovery should have been informed enough to contact the police for theirs and other road users safety.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

swarthy said:


> Theoretically - this should have been picked up by the ANPR cameras - the M40 particularly is littered with them - it's never been one of my favourite motorways - it's "boring" which might sound stupid - but that means it is far more likely that people could doze off at the wheel.
> 
> Tashi - you seem to know more of the facts than are being reported through the media - I am very sorry for the loss of the dog which meant a lot to you and the others that lost their lives.
> 
> ...


All I know is what is coming straight from the people concerned, my girls have travelled far and wide with Lisa and Carrie.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

In a statement the RAC said: "We are extremely saddened to learn that a young woman has been injured and that three dogs have lost their lives as a result of an earlier incident. We had despatched a specialist recovery vehicle to attend but unfortunately the accident occured while the vehicle was en route to the scene." - See more at: News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld

*So the RAC did have another vehicle on the way. I can't see what else they could have done.*


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Snoringbear said:


> Ideally the RAC recovery should have been informed enough to contact the police for theirs and other road users safety.


Ideally the RAC should have helped the customers that had bought one of their policies...
All the dogs were in crates (thank god as I don't think as many would have survived if they had been loose), the RAC knew what vehicle they were going out to so would/should have sent the right truck..the driver of that truck refused to tow the van to safety...
I do like how the RAC are trying to pass the buck that a truck had been called...yes it had, and that driver refused to tow the van to safety... Even if they just got the van up to the next junction with a services (junction 12) they would have at least been safe until other transport was sorted..

I'm not saying that the truck driver is faultless (it may have been a horribly unavoidable crash for all we know), but the driver of the tow truck that decided to be an arse has blood on his hands...that is a fact.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

All those hours waiting and what I don't understand is why were the police not there to warn other traffic its not rocket science to place a police car with their lights flashing ?


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Whenever have called the RAC out, even if I know its going nowhere, they always send someone to look at it first, then another call out for a tow type truck and it has been harder when had a camper van (transit type).

Suprised also the police motorway teams were not there; when I broke down on the M42 the police came to check I was OK and whilst the RAC man was working they closed the slow lane.

It does sound a big unusual vehicle, but you would have thought the RAC would have known what type of vehicle covering and said no if theycouldn't manage it, OK so wouldn't have been as easy as your bog standard car.

I still think the lorry driver has more blood on their hands; but I am happy to wait and see when more details are known rather than jump to any conclusions; it could be a mechanical error, but it looks like they were going pretty fast to do that much damage.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

When we broke down on the M25 and I was waiting with Bess for two hours on the hard shoulder I was certain the police would stop to check we were ok -there was a caravan and car broken down. But all I saw was one police car going in the other direction - not one police car came our way. And this was on a busy Friday afternoon. 

Although when you're driving you seem to see a lot of police cars, there doesn't actually seem to be that many around. . Or never when you need them.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

The Voice of Reason said:


> I agree. At risk of further speculation, based on the photographs of the accident, the motorhome in question looks to be a Dethleffs Advantage A7871-2, or certainly another twin axle motorhome.
> This has an unladen weight of over 4 tonnes (probably closer to 5 tonnes with cargo and dogs inside) - well over what a standard RAC van is capable of towing safely, so even if the RAC did turn up quickly in a van that could have made a roadside repair, they would not have been able to tow it to safety until a suitable recovery vehicle arrived.
> I'm guessing that the vehicles over 4 tonnes are not part of the RAC's core business, so they would have had to outsource a suitable vehicle to do the recovery, the logistics of which take time, especially at 5:40am, when the majority of the drivers of such vehicles would be in bed.
> 
> RIP to the animals who have lost their lives and I wish those injured a speedy recovery, but laying the blame on others (without the facts) really grates with me.


A vehicle of above weight could have gone on to a low loader, ours did and its heavier than above and we waited 45 mins in the wilds of Scotland.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

dandogman said:


> Took this from the RAC FB page
> 
> ''As todays incident involved a large motorhome we had to ensure the correct recovery vehicle attended.''
> 
> Why's everyone so quick to blame the RAC? but seem to forget that it was the truck driver who caused this.


because as it has been stated before, the REASON for the RAC not removing the vehicle is:- THE van contained dogs, not becasue they were having problems finding a suitable vehicle to remove said Motor Home, and if they had of removed this motorhome from the spot where it was and towed it to safety it wouldn't have been there for tthe truck to crash into. What part of this don't you understand.?


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I am sure we all quite are capable of understanding re the RAC in the likewise I hope others understand my point of view. You don't have to agree with me.

What myself and others are saying no where has there been any questioning of what the heck was going on with the lorry. The RAC attending/ not attending would not have been an issue if the lorry had not ploughed into the back of them. Most people blame the RAC directly it seems.

There are a couple of issues really... 

a) the RAC's actions - I have read so many comments i cant remember if there has been actual feed back from the ladies as to if thats def what happened and why they said - if so fair enough and understand that people are concerned for themselves when travelling with dogs in case we find ourselves in the same situation. If not we need to wait until the full story comes out.

b) a huge lorry ploughed into the back of them. Someone either wasn't paying attention, or even with a mechanical fault and himself needing to pull over he couldn't have waited until past them; everyone seems very willing to give the driver a fair chance.

So in my eyes the RAC maybe (or maybe not) didn't act as well as they could have done. But it wasn't their direct action that caused the incident.

With regard to towing a few miles to the service station can't see that being realistic - in my mind if someone is happy to tow them off the motorway then they can't use the excuse of not towing them any further - its either safe or not safe, either had the right vehicle or not etc.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> because as it has been stated before, the REASON for the RAC not removing the vehicle is:- THE van contained dogs, not becasue they were having problems finding a suitable vehicle to remove said Motor Home, and if they had of removed this motorhome from the spot where it was and towed it to safety it wouldn't have been there for tthe truck to crash into. What part of this don't you understand.?


Have you actually done any background reading before jumping on the bandwagon? It clearly says on the RAC FB page, that A) the vehicle was above the weight limit and B) a suitable vehicle was en route. If it's not safe to tow the vehicle, then it's not safe. No doubt if something would have happened due to this and the dogs died, you would be reacting the same as you are now. I'm sorry, but the many humans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs. 
I don't think you really understand how causation works if you think the RAC are to blame for the trucks actions


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

In my view the lorry driver is the person who *directly* caused the death of these dogs. Why he hit them, we don't yet know. But if it was carelessness or distracted by a phone call I'd like to see him banned from driving!

The RAC i*ndirectly* caused the death of the dogs and the injuries to the people, as it could have been prevented had the original driver attending agreed to tow with the dogs.

As I've said before, the hard shoulder is an extremely dangerous place to be. the RAC should have been aware of this, and done all they could to minimise the very real danger, and not leaving these ladies stranded for hours.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Have you actually done any background reading before jumping on the bandwagon? It clearly says on the RAC FB page, that A) the vehicle was above the weight limit and B) a suitable vehicle was en route. If it's not safe to tow the vehicle, then it's not safe. No doubt if something would have happened due to this and the dogs died, you would be reacting the same as you are now. I'm sorry, but the many humans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs.
> I don't think you really understand how causation works if you think the RAC are to blame for the trucks actions


Because the RAC would not be trying to cover their tracks at all now would they?

Not saying they are or not, but I would prefer to believe the people directly involved. It has been clearly stated that the reason the van was not towed was because the van contained dogs... and that has come directly from the owners...



tashi said:


> All I know is what is coming straight from the people concerned, my girls have travelled far and wide with Lisa and Carrie.





tashi said:


> *RAC did know the size of the vehicle, they did come but refused to move it due to the dogs on board*, wouldn't have been safe to remove the dogs from the vehicle as it was a german RV and the doors are on the r/h side.
> 
> Two of the dogs were killed outright, one was killed on the road but again outright. Have no update as of yet on the poor puppy in the vets.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Because the RAC would not be trying to cover their tracks at all now would they?
> 
> Not saying they are or not, but I would prefer to believe the people directly involved. It has been clearly stated that the reason the van was not towed was because the van contained dogs... and that has come directly from the owners...


If that is correct, then, the RAC should have done more and quicker - but if a lone mum and a baby are stranded, then they should get priority imo. I still fail to see how the RAC are supposadly *directly* resonsible. It's a tragic incident, yes it could have been avoided, but it clearly says in the policy that it's at the driver's discretion whether they take dogs - so technically *he* haven't really done anything wrong...


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

Truly devastating. Run free to the doggies that lost their lives  so, so tragic

xxx


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Sadly little Suka the cardigan pup injured has not made it, she was given sleep this afternoon. Her injuries were far too much :'(


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

tashi said:


> Sadly little Suka the cardigan pup injured has not made it, she was given sleep this afternoon. Her injuries were far too much :'(


Oh no I am so sorry to hear that RIP little baby


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

RIP to little Suka another doggie to lose her life.
Just can't imagine wot Lisa n Carrie r goin through, Thinking of you n hoping for a speedy recovery for Twinkie now xx


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

mummyschnauzer said:


> because as it has been stated before, the REASON for the RAC not removing the vehicle is:- THE van contained dogs, not becasue they were having problems finding a suitable vehicle to remove said Motor Home, and if they had removed this motorhome from the spot where it was and towed it to safety it wouldn't have been there for the truck to crash into.
> What part of this don't you understand.?


I understand your wording completely, but I disagree with your reasoning for the incident taking place.
By this reconning, why are we not blaming the last garage to service the vehicle for overlooking a worn part that caused the breakdown or blaming the highways agency for not providing a safer refuge place for broken down vehicles and thereby being "directly" responsible for the accident taking place.
We are not doing this, because it would be ridiculous to do so. So in the same way it is ridiculous to say that the RAC are directly responsible.

It is perfectly reasonable to say that had the RAC reacted in a different way that the outcome may have been different, just as it would be reasonable to say that if the hard shoulder had safer refuge areas along its length, the incident might not have happened, but that does not mean that they are directly responsible.

If we theorise for a moment and say that the RAC had parked a recovery truck infront of the motorhome to tow it and the lorry had still hit the back of the motor home - we would probably then be looking at the death of the 3 motorhome occupants through being sandwiched between two vehicles, the death of the RAC driver for being in the path of the vehicle too.

The saddest part of this (aside from the death of the animals and the injuries to the people) is that had there been no dogs in the vehicle, very few people other than those who know the people personally would care about the outcome, even if people had died - It is a sad state of affairs when people care more about the loss of an animals life than they do about another human. 
Many people are killed through no fault of their own all around the world everyday, by things that are preventable - yet I see no-one getting so angry about that.
Yes it is sad that animals have died, but we need to put things into perspective.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

The Voice of Reason said:


> The saddest part of this (aside from the death of the animals and the injuries to the people) is that had there been no dogs in the vehicle, very few people other than those who know the people personally would care about the outcome, even if people had died - It is a sad state of affairs when people care more about the loss of an animals life than they do about another human.
> Many people are killed through no fault of their own all around the world everyday, by things that are preventable - yet I see no-one getting so angry about that.
> Yes it is sad that animals have died, but we need to put things into perspective.


This is a pet forum, the clue is in the name 
If it wasn't for the pets then the van would have been towed, meaning that it wouldn't have been there when the truck came along....

The reason that the van was there to hit in the first place is because the driver acting for the RAC *refused* to tow the vehicle for no reason other than it contained dogs..

The RAC aren't directly responsible, the truck driver (unless there was an unavoidable set of circumstances) is directly responsible. The RAC are indirectly responsible by not having safety measures put in place until the van COULD be towed..

My sympathies lie completely with the people involved and the poor dogs, not the company that failed them..
Lets hope that lessons have been learnt and the policy regarding dogs is made clearer....they either transport them, or they don't...not pick and choose depending on the mood of the day - simple


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I've heard the lorry jackknifed? If so what a bloody shame it was just at that point.


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> This is a pet forum, the clue is in the name
> If it wasn't for the pets then the van would have been towed, meaning that it wouldn't have been there when the truck came along....


The point of my post seems to have completely evaded you. Just because we are a pet forum, does that mean we care less for people? 
It is right to assume that people here care for their pets. HOWEVER, the reactions in this thread and elsewhere on the internet seem to be completely disproportionate (even from a forum of animal lovers) to the reaction that would have occurred had it been 12 people involved.



StormyThai said:


> The reason that the van was there to hit in the first place is because the driver acting for the RAC *refused* to tow the vehicle for no reason other than it contained dogs..


No, the reason for the van being there to hit is because it broke down.



StormyThai said:


> My sympathies lie completely with the people involved and the poor dogs, not the company that failed them..
> Lets hope that lessons have been learnt and the policy regarding dogs is made clearer....they either transport them, or they don't...not pick and choose depending on the mood of the day - simple


My sympathies also lie with those involved, however, since I do not know the people involved (and therefore cannot get reliable information directly), I will not make accusations about a company or individual based on speculation. Whatever happened to the basis of our legal system - that someone / some organisation is innocent until proven guilty.

I have seen media quoted statements that say that the RAC had dispatched a suitable vehicle and it was en-route. 
I have seen no media quoted statements saying that the RAC catagorically refused based on the presence of dogs.
And we all know how the media love to hound companies who have made a mistake.

I am not saying that this didn't happen, but simillarly, I do not know the people involved or the reliableness of the second, thrid or fourth hand accounts of their comments that the RAC refused because of the dogs - For all I know, a comment may have been made regarding the dogs amongst other things, and this is what those involved focussed on following an accident where their animals had died.

I for one will not accuse the RAC for their actions or inactions without the facts to back it up - Doing so would be potentially liablous.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

The Voice of Reason said:


> The saddest part of this (aside from the death of the animals and the injuries to the people) is that had there been no dogs in the vehicle, very few people other than those who know the people personally would care about the outcome, even if people had died


Not strictly true, it's due to the fact the people involved are part of the exhibitors circuit so it's being advertised more as it's a widely dispersed community.

How many dogs are killed on roads though traffic accidents each year I wonder and yet nothing is done in terms of advertising harness safety, crate safety etc.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

No, the point of your post has not evaded me. When a bus of people had been crashed into because the RAC refused to tow them to safety, then there would be a similar outcry...just with more mainstream coverage  But that is irrelevant, because it wasn't...

I guess you are also missing the fact that one person that has commented is getting the facts straight from the source..
We all know how the media love to print 'facts' that have no basis, just look at the recent child death (Lexi) for an example of that one... Just because the media hasn't printed something, doesn't mean that the something does not exist..

Again, I will believe what happened from the people that experienced it, not the media and not a company trying to cover it's tracks....
I hope questions are asked, and the people responsible held accountable.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Seems a very dangerous road, it seems that there were several other accidents on that road yesterday with people being seriously hurt.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

So sorry to hear that the other dog at the vets didn't make it, RIP to all the dogs which lost their lives
I don't see why people shouldn't care about the dogs that died, as someone said the clue is in the name of the forum, which is why it was reported on here, 
It is terrible for the 2 ladies whose dogs died and the young girl who is badly injured ,but doesn't mean we shouldn't value the lives of the dogs any less
I don't even have dogs , but cant bear the thought of them suffering
, and they cant understand what has happened so will be very traumatised, 
No one really knows yet what happened with the truck driver, but if the RAC had not left the ladies and dogs in the dark, literally for 3 hours , and even called the police to notify them about a large motorhome on the hard shoulder it might not have happened,


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

dandogman said:


> Have you actually done any background reading before jumping on the bandwagon? It clearly says on the RAC FB page, that A) the vehicle was above the weight limit and B) a suitable vehicle was en route. If it's not safe to tow the vehicle, then it's not safe. No doubt if something would have happened due to this and the dogs died, you would be reacting the same as you are now. I don't think you really understand how causation works if you think the RAC are to blame for the trucks actions


I'm not jumping on the bandwagon, I am shocked that this happened at all.

Isn't it apparent by now the RAC are to blame for the delay in removing the Van BECAUSE THEY REFUSED on the basis of teh dogs, not on the size or weight of the Motor Home. We are speaking of 3 women, dogs and a broken down vehicle stuck on the hard shoulder, it was a disaster waiting to happen. I am a Motor Home owner, and something similiar happened to us in Scotland this year, in precisely 30 minutes a low loader had come and removed our Van, people and 1 dog without a problem.

I'm sorry there are hundreds of Motor Homes and caravans travelling up and down the country on Motorways all year round, and if the RAC had a problem providing vehicles to take Motor Homes and Caravans from hard shoulders, that have broken down, we wouldn't get on or off the Motorways, for broken down vehicles waiting to be found suitable wagons to take them off.

and your other comment beggers belief:-
Dangoman quoted:- _I'm sorry, but the many humans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs_.

Every form of life should take priority.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Firedog said:


> Seems a very dangerous road, it seems that there were several other accidents on that road yesterday with people being seriously hurt.


There's been several big accidents on there last week, nearly one a day


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Can't believe you are even arguing on a thread like this!!  

For gods sake have some sensitivity to those on here that know these people. 

Sorry Tashi, it had to be said.....I can't believe this :nonod:


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

mummyschnauzer said:


> I'm not jumping on the bandwagon, I am shocked that this happened at all.
> 
> Isn't it apparent by now the RAC are to blame for the delay in removing the Van BECAUSE THEY REFUSED on the basis of teh dogs, not on the size or weight of the Motor Home. We are speaking of 3 women, dogs and a broken down vehicle stuck on the hard shoulder, it was a disaster waiting to happen. I am a Motor Home owner, and something similiar happened to us in Scotland this year, in precisely 30 minutes a low loader had come and removed our Van, people and 1 dog without a problem.
> 
> ...


As Rona has pointed out, arguing on this type of thread is inapropriate. I will not be writing a reply, I've said what I want to say. I apologise to Tashi and anyone involved who is reading this if my comments have maybe been taken the wrong way. I was just trying to look at it from a neutral perspective that's all. RIP to the dogs who sadly lost their lives in this absolutley devestating incident.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I've just caught up on the thread. I find some of the comments disgusting and hurtful to those involved


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

tashi said:


> Sadly little Suka the cardigan pup injured has not made it, she was given sleep this afternoon. Her injuries were far too much :'(


Oh no :crying:


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

rona said:


> Can't believe you are even arguing on a thread like this!!
> 
> For gods sake have some sensitivity to those on here that know these people.
> 
> Sorry Tashi, it had to be said.....I can't believe this :nonod:


Thank you Rona, I will admit some of the posts have been upsetting


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> The saddest part of this (aside from the death of the animals and the injuries to the people) is that had there been no dogs in the vehicle, very few people other than those who know the people personally would care about the outcome, even if people had died - It is a sad state of affairs when people care more about the loss of an animals life than they do about another human.
> Many people are killed through no fault of their own all around the world everyday, by things that are preventable - yet I see no-one getting so angry about that.
> Yes it is sad that animals have died, but we need to put things into perspective.


I find this extremely offensive. No-one who has been involved with any of this is guilty as charged by you. What you fail to understand is that news of this accident quickly went viral because these people are well known in the show community; the show community is huge and immediately rallied round to help where they could - sharing and re-sharing info on FB so that more people could help, getting people in the area mobilised and able to search, co-ordonating searches for the lost dogs, getting in touch with Dog Lost, contacting the two main dog papers, trying to find out answers form the RAC, stariting collections for the people involved.

Instead of someone like you looking in from the outside, pointing the finger, judging them, and blaming them for all that they did; the people involved should be praised and congratulated that they made a dreadful experience a litttle easier to bear for the humans involved.


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

i really don't know what to say , i don't normally come in dog chat but after reading parts of whats happened i came to see how things were, stunned is the word , so sad and devastating what has happened ... r.i.p to all the dogs and hope all the others are doing fine 
lets hope the lady in hospital improves and the others are doing ok .. i really can't think what they are going through !!


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> I find this extremely offensive. No-one who has been involved with any of this is guilty as charged by you. What you fail to understand is that news of this accident quickly went viral because these people are well known in the show community; the show community is huge and immediately rallied round to help where they could - sharing and re-sharing info on FB so that more people could help, getting people in the area mobilised and able to search, co-ordonating searches for the lost dogs, getting in touch with Dog Lost, contacting the two main dog papers, trying to find out answers form the RAC, stariting collections for the people involved.
> 
> Instead of someone like you looking in from the outside, pointing the finger, judging them, and blaming them for all that they did; the people involved should be praised and congratulated that they made a dreadful experience a litttle easier to bear for the humans involved.


I appologise if I have offended anyone. 
I am in no way questioning the motives of those people involved or those who have offered support. I was merely stating (perhaps not as eloquently as I could have) that it is a shame that people seem not to 'rally round' like they have done for this situation.

To clarify what I meant to say: its not that I think people should care less about this incident, just that they should care more about other incidents that do not involve our furry friends as well - something that I see from all sorts of people, not specifically this forum.

With respect to my other comments on this thread, I stand by my belief that the RAC should not be unfavourably judged until all the facts are known.
If it turns out that reports of them refusing to assist because of the dogs are in fact true, then I appologise for posting in defence of them. 
I have had many good experiences with the RAC and have never had issue with them (my family have been members for 33 years). Conversely, I have never met the people involved or the people who know them on here, so on this basis, I hope that you can see my reasoning for going by my own experiences over the comments made by others - I appologise if this offends anyone.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

The Voice of Reason said:


> I appologise if I have offended anyone.
> I am in no way questioning the motives of those people involved or those who have offered support. I was merely stating (perhaps not as elequently as I could have) that it is a shame that people seem not to 'rally round' like they have done for this situation.
> 
> To clarify what I meant to say: its not that I think people should care less about this incident, just that they should care more about other incidents that do not involve our furry friends as well - something that I see from all sorts of people.


You need to look else where then or change your circles.

My friends 4 year old nephew has a rare form of cancer, they can only get treatment for this childhood cancer in the USA, the show community have started an auction site for Bradley, bracelets an arm bands are sold by exhibitors at most show! Saturday night saw the Scottish Rottweiler Dog of Year the part of the winning dog prize was a cake made in to a rosette saying Scottish dog of the year it was raffled off by the winner this alone raised £300 to get Bradley his treatment that's without all the other raffle money and auctions and sold arm bands and donations all from the dog world to help a child none have met, all because his Aunty shows dogs! People care about things that don't involve our furry friends!


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

I hope your friend's nephew is able to get the treatment he needs and makes a full recovery.
It seems that the showing world are a very tight-knit community, and should be commended for that.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> I hope your friend's nephew is able to get the treatment he needs and makes a full recovery.
> It seems that the showing world are a very tight-knit community, and should be commended for that.


It's the dog world as a whole.

This accident hit home to many other dog owners via social media - including anyone who travels with dogs, whether for sport or pleasure. It has struck a chord with agility, flyball, trials people; gundogs, sled dogs. And rescues as well, who also have kitted-out vans for up to 15 dogs or more.

I doubt there is any dog owner who hasn't heard of this by now. Several non-dog friends tagged me on FB in case I hadn't seen it.... The ripples in the pond are spreading far and wide.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 'm sorry, but the many hhttp://www.petforums.co.uk/images/editor/separator.gifumans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs.


_I_ was one of the humans on the M40 that day. I was driving with two other PetForumites and a show cat to the Supreme Cat Show at the NEC, and we arrived at the junction where the motorway was closed less than an hour after the accident had happened. At the time we had no idea what had happened other than that there had been an accident, but the exit was chaos - we managed to get off pretty quickly and rerouted successfully, thankfully, but as the closure lasted so long I dread to think how long some were stuck there, and I'm sure many had more important things to attend than we did. I somehow doubt any of these humans felt prioritised, and would much rather a suitable recovery vehicle capable of at least towing a big motor home to the services a couple of miles up the road had been sent first time, rather than leave such a large vehicle stranded in a vulnerable position for so long. Rather one closed lane for recovery for half an hour or so than such carnage, injury and death... 

Any breakdown on the motorway is extremely dangerous and should be treated as priority, to my mind. I was driving in convoy with a hired van when a friend of mine relocated, and the van broke down on the motorway and had to wait for specialist breakdown to arrive. A police motorway patrol stopped quite quickly and stayed until the breakdown people confirmed they were nearly there - blue flashing lights were a lot more effective at slowing down passing traffic than mere hazard lights, for what it's worth. I wonder why the police were never notified of this breakdown?

I think it's probably worthwhile remembering that all of the people involved are probably feeling pretty awful given the consequences (assuming they are regular, caring everyday people, anyway), _including_ the RAC man for either being unable or unwilling to help, and the lorry driver for either causing or being unable to prevent the accident.

As far as the RAC goes, I left them years ago after my handbag with my car keys in was stolen late at night at a youth club I was helping run, and although a friend brought me my spare key for the car I didn't have one for the crooklock (yes, this was a while ago!), I called the RAC, and they said the best they could do was charge me several hundred pounds to wait for several hours for them to send a towtruck to take my car home as it wasn't a breakdown, and I'd have to pay someone else to remove the crooklock- never mind I was a woman on my own miles from home after dark.  So my friend who had brought me my spare key phoned the AA, as she was a member, and they arrived within half an hour and (with a lot of effort!) removed the crooklock - free of charge. :thumbup: I cancelled my RAC membership the next day!


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

As you say, the one good thing that has come about due to this incident, is that dogs owners from various different communities have come together and have been made aware that recovery companies will not / might not transport their dogs. 

My RAC policy states:
"If there are any domestic animals in Your Vehicle, their onward transportation is at Our discretion and solely at Your risk. We will not insure any animal during any onward transportation We undertake. 
Unless there is a safety issue, guide dogs for the blind, or hearing dogs will always be transported with their owners."

Looking on the internet at other companies, shows that:
AA state that they exclude:
"The transportation or arrangement of the transportation of any animal.
Guide dogs or hearing dogs will be transported together with their owner, unless this is not possible for health and/or safety reasons"

Green Flag state:
"Onward transportation of any animal in your vehicle is at our discretion. We will not be liable for injury or death of the animal"

The question, especially for those who regularly transport their dogs, then remains one of: How this issue is overcome.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> The question, especially for those who regularly transport their dogs, then remains one of: How this issue is overcome.


And that - as we've also come to realise this weekend - is a not insignificant part of the population.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I haven't read all through the recent pages as I am off to work has there been any updates on the injured?


At a show today we were speaking to a woman who had been going to a different show and broke down. She too was ina larger vehicle and rang the AA as that who she is a member with. They weren't far from home so were towed home and changed tto their other car and came to the show we were at as she had entered both.

While in the tow truck she said they were talking about the accident and she said the driver told her in the surcumstances the original break down vehicle shpould have stayed with the women and phoned the police. The should have then stayed with them untill either the police arrived or the larger tow vehicle.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Freyja said:


> While in the tow truck she said they were talking about the accident and she said the driver told her in the surcumstances the original break down vehicle shpould have stayed with the women and phoned the police. The should have then stayed with them untill either the police arrived or the larger tow vehicle.


Or why didn't the RAC at least advise the ladies to phone the police?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

The Voice of Reason said:


> As you say, the one good thing that has come about due to this incident, is that dogs owners from various different communities have come together and have been made aware that recovery companies will not / might not transport their dogs.
> 
> My RAC policy states:
> "If there are any domestic animals in Your Vehicle, their onward transportation is at Our discretion and solely at Your risk. We will not insure any animal during any onward transportation We undertake.
> ...


I'm looking into this:

AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm looking into this:
> 
> AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets


Thanks for that link. Looks useful!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't think there has been anyone who hasn't been shocked by this and any of us whose dogs aren't family and as an earlier post said the way people rallied round was brilliant. It has definitely highlighted to us all the issue of breaking down with dogs and the risks we may face and the dangers of being on the motorway.

I interpreted some of the comments above as we would see dogs and ladies being rescued as a priority but the RAC may not have done, they may have to prioritise other callers first - although have always been told motorway breakdowns are priority if you are not safe and was shocked to read the life expectancy of being on the hard shoulder was 40 minutes.

What I also have seen on facebook is what usually happens, people baying for the RAC drivers blood before it was even known what had happened, even when some more came out people on there never let the truth or fact stand in the way of a OTT rant. Again some people have just gone a bit crazy about it on there, but I know being dogs affected its close to our hearts and also seeing the pictures has made us realise what actually happens in an incident... a company I used to work for did clean up after motorway accicdents, and it aint pretty but we are normally sheltered from that - it can be horrific. We should turn that anger into trying to do something positive about it with the recovery companies so other people are not in the same situation and not just ranting on facebook.

btw when I broke down on the motorway earlier in the year, the RAC had a safety message at the end of the call which they said I MUST listen too ; advising me how to say safe on the motorway whilst help was sent. This was a standard thing.... Can imagine though standing on a cold embankment for 3 hours would tempt you back into the cab.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

EmCHammer said:


> I don't think there has been anyone who hasn't been shocked by this and any of us whose dogs aren't family and as an earlier post said the way people rallied round was brilliant. It has definitely highlighted to us all the issue of breaking down with dogs and the risks we may face and the dangers of being on the motorway.
> 
> I interpreted some of the comments above as we would see dogs and ladies being rescued as a priority but the RAC may not have done, they may have to prioritise other callers first - although have always been told motorway breakdowns are priority if you are not safe and was shocked to read the life expectancy of being on the hard shoulder was 40 minutes.
> 
> ...


It was unsafe to unload the dogs due to the door being on the road side, in that case I too would have stayed with my dogs, regardless of a safety message or not


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

UPDATE

I have spoken to my friend last night, 'Twinkie' as she is affectionately known is hopefully going to be moved on to a ward today. I have been given the all clear to go visit her . My other two friends are aching, bruised and still in shock and grieving for the dogs they lost.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Further update straight from the horses mouth 

Twinkie was bright tonight - she may even be moved to a ward tomorrow. The spine doctor thinks her fractures will heal, her head has been stitched, her broken femur operated, her lung working. We had to say goodbye to our dear Suka, her injuries were too severe. Liz Dunnhill came down to taxi us and Gavin Robertson took us for some hot food. I have read some of the newspaper reports - really?? why can they not get the facts right?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

The last thing these people need is to read lots of controversy in the press about what has happened. It is so upsetting, anyone who is a dog lover will feel upset at what happened. I just pray they all have a speedy recovery & are buoyed along by the love & support of their friends and family. Any news on the lady who was very poorly in hospital?
edit: Oh just read your last reply....good news then that she is getting better.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

What a horrible thing to happen. RIP poor pups. I suppose they were lucky that it wasnt any worse though.
Cant believe that repair vans dont concern themselves with animals in vehicles! I mean even if you dont care about dogs they would still present a huge risk to other road users if they got out and ran around the motorway!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Apparently they've had to put down their corgi girl Suka, yesterday. *dunno if it's already been posted as there's so many pages! *



> We've just had to say goodbye to our sweet cardi girl Suka today- the neurologic damage was too much, broken pelvis, tail separated from spine, and 2 blown knees as well.


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## SpringerLex (Jul 24, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Have you actually done any background reading before jumping on the bandwagon? It clearly says on the RAC FB page, that A) the vehicle was above the weight limit and B) a suitable vehicle was en route. If it's not safe to tow the vehicle, then it's not safe. No doubt if something would have happened due to this and the dogs died, you would be reacting the same as you are now. I'm sorry, but the many humans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs.
> I don't think you really understand how causation works if you think the RAC are to blame for the trucks actions


Dan can I point out to you that this accident happened at 5.40am. Now I am relatively sure that there were not a mountain of calls into the RAC at 2.40am when the women initially broke down. The RAC are to blame because they should have done more for these women. People saying the dogs were uncrated, these dogs were in airline approved crates in the motorhome. They were not unrestrained and the reason several of them escaped was because their crates could not withstand obliteration from a HGV.

3 Hours is an atrocious time to wait for assistance from a company. The RAC are covering their backsides by saying that they had a vehicle on route. What's not said is that this was 3 hours after the initial call. Sure the lorry driver has responsibility. But had the RAC moved them in the first place, the lorry would not have hit them. Plain and simple.


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## SpringerLex (Jul 24, 2012)

I can confirm that Suka was put to sleep yesterday. Four dogs are now dead because of this tragedy.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Very glad to hear the young lady is recovering tell her when you visit her we are all pulling for her here


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

SpringerLex said:


> Dan can I point out to you that this accident happened at 5.40am. Now I am relatively sure that there were not a mountain of calls into the RAC at 2.40am when the women initially broke down. The RAC are to blame because they should have done more for these women. People saying the dogs were uncrated, these dogs were in airline approved crates in the motorhome. They were not unrestrained and the reason several of them escaped was because their crates could not withstand obliteration from a HGV.
> 
> 3 Hours is an atrocious time to wait for assistance from a company. The RAC are covering their backsides by saying that they had a vehicle on route. What's not said is that this was 3 hours after the initial call. Sure the lorry driver has responsibility. But had the RAC moved them in the first place, the lorry would not have hit them. Plain and simple.


I never saw the time they actually broke down, its a bit bad then that despite the fact it was during the early hours of the morning, they couldn't come out in a reasonable time. The poor lorry driver will still have to bear responsbility but the RAC was clearly an indirect cause.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

SpringerLex said:


> Dan can I point out to you that this accident happened at 5.40am. Now I am relatively sure that there were not a mountain of calls into the RAC at 2.40am when the women initially broke down. The RAC are to blame because they should have done more for these women. People saying the dogs were uncrated, these dogs were in airline approved crates in the motorhome. They were not unrestrained and the reason several of them escaped was because their crates could not withstand obliteration from a HGV.
> 
> 3 Hours is an atrocious time to wait for assistance from a company. The RAC are covering their backsides by saying that they had a vehicle on route. What's not said is that this was 3 hours after the initial call. Sure the lorry driver has responsibility. But had the RAC moved them in the first place, the lorry would not have hit them. Plain and simple.


At such an early hour I would expect faster service but perhaps the larger tow truck was some distance away. I do hope there is a proper investigation into this.

A few years ago I broke down with 2 small children in the car at 10pm at night in October. We had a motorway services security car come out to us as we waited on the hard shoulder. They offered hot drinks and checked if we had warm clothing for the children. I wonder if this service has been reduced by cost cuts, as I would have at least expected this service to come out to the ladies.

In this day and age with cameras everywhere, its unbelievable that nobody saw them and came out to make sure they had warm clothing and a safe place to wait on the hard shoulder.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

SpringerLex said:


> Dan can I point out to you that this accident happened at 5.40am. Now I am relatively sure that there were not a mountain of calls into the RAC at 2.40am when the women initially broke down. The RAC are to blame because they should have done more for these women. People saying the dogs were uncrated, these dogs were in airline approved crates in the motorhome. They were not unrestrained and the reason several of them escaped was because their crates could not withstand obliteration from a HGV.
> 
> 3 Hours is an atrocious time to wait for assistance from a company. The RAC are covering their backsides by saying that they had a vehicle on route. What's not said is that this was 3 hours after the initial call. Sure the lorry driver has responsibility. But had the RAC moved them in the first place, the lorry would not have hit them. Plain and simple.


I agree with you totally
That's what I have been saying all along, that and the fact 3 women were left broken down, in the dark, and with the welfare of the 10 dogs and then being told no-one could come and take them off, because of the number of dogs, the poor women must have been so stressed out, my heart goes out to them and what they must have been going through. 

_Also someone on here, (no names, you know who you are)----- said and I quote:

" I'm sorry, but the many humans on the M40 that day have priorty over dogs" 
to which I replied EVERY LIFE IS A PRIORITY.

I hope sincerely that these wonderful women and and their remaining dogs, can hopefully in time heal mentally and physically and someone out there, owns up to their cock up and learns to LIVE with it._


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

I will admit to not having read this entire thread, but have read most of it.
Firstly it is very sad that lives have been lost.
Secondly, to all those slating the RAC. Can I put forward a scenario to you. If an RAC van had stayed with them until the tow truck had arrived, they would not have been able to attend another broken down vehicle. Say another vehicle was broken down further up the same motorway. The RAC took hours to attend to them because they had stayed with the first vehicle. The second car gets hit and lives are lost. The RAC would have been slated for that. So, why stay with a vehicle that they cannot do anything for, when they could be helping other vehicles and potentially saving lives of other people.
Without all the facts, it is very hard to lay blame for this accident. I realise when tragedy happens that people want to blame someone. It somehow makes it easier to come to terms with what has happened if you can blame somebody. But you cannot go around ruining a companies reputation when you do not know all of the circumstances surrounding why the RAC did not stay with the vehicle whilst awaiting the recovery vehicle.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

something ridiculous said:


> I will admit to not having read this entire thread, but have read most of it.
> Firstly it is very sad that lives have been lost.
> Secondly, to all those slating the RAC. Can I put forward a scenario to you. If an RAC van had stayed with them until the tow truck had arrived, they would not have been able to attend another broken down vehicle. Say another vehicle was broken down further up the same motorway. The RAC took hours to attend to them because they had stayed with the first vehicle. The second car gets hit and lives are lost. The RAC would have been slated for that. So, why stay with a vehicle that they cannot do anything for, when they could be helping other vehicles and potentially saving lives of other people.
> Without all the facts, it is very hard to lay blame for this accident. I realise when tragedy happens that people want to blame someone. It somehow makes it easier to come to terms with what has happened if you can blame somebody. But you cannot go around ruining a companies reputation when you do not know all of the circumstances surrounding why the RAC did not stay with the vehicle whilst awaiting the recovery vehicle.


I suggest you read the whole thread, it's not that they "couldn't" do anything it is because the driver didn't "want" to help them..


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Picklelily said:


> At such an early hour I would expect faster service but perhaps the larger tow truck was some distance away. I do hope there is a proper investigation into this.
> 
> A few years ago I broke down with 2 small children in the car at 10pm at night in October. We had a motorway services security car come out to us as we waited on the hard shoulder. They offered hot drinks and checked if we had warm clothing for the children. I wonder if this service has been reduced by cost cuts, as I would have at least expected this service to come out to the ladies.
> 
> *In this day and age with cameras everywhere, its unbelievable that nobody saw them and came out to make sure they had warm clothing and a safe place to wait on the hard shoulder*.


I agree, especially as there are supposedly people monitoring these cameras


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Terrible situation. The RAC driver is probably wishing he could turn back the clock now, sadly it's too late. A lesson here, always think about the consequences of your actions. If we all lived our lives thinking about what is best for others the world would be a much better place.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> I suggest you read the whole thread, it's not that they "couldn't" do anything it is because the driver didn't "want" to help them..


The recovery vehicle was on it's way. An RAC van would not be able to tow such a large vehicle, so in what way did they not want to help?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

By staying with the people with lights on or given them some flashy lights.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> By staying with the people with lights on or given them some flashy lights.


By doing this, they might have left another vehicle stranded for hours.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

something ridiculous said:


> By doing this, they might have left another vehicle stranded for hours.


not if they gave them a light device of some sort.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> not if they gave them a light device of some sort.


So the RAC should carry several light devices to hand out? What? Presumably the broken down vehicle had hazard lights on anyway.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

something ridiculous said:


> So the RAC should carry several light devices to hand out? What? Presumably the broken down vehicle had hazard lights on anyway.


Well why not


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Well why not


Why don't they carry a magic wand to solve all problems in an instant? It is simply not possible for them to carry everything. Why not carry your own in case you break down. Since the vehicle was struck very hard, I doubt it would have helped anyway in this case.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

something ridiculous said:


> The recovery vehicle was on it's way. An RAC van would not be able to tow such a large vehicle, so in what way did they not want to help?


Read the thread, the recovery vehicle had *refused* to tow the vehicle... The recovery vehicle was not on it's way, it had already refused to to the van containing dogs....

I will repeat I would much rather base my facts from the people there, rather than believe a company that is now trying to cover it's tracks....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

StormyThai said:


> Read the thread, the recovery vehicle had *refused* to tow the vehicle... The recovery vehicle was not on it's way, it had already refused to to the van containing dogs....
> 
> I will repeat I would much rather base my facts from the people there, rather than believe a company that is now trying to cover it's tracks....


*I have read the whole thread, and as i posted yesterday the RAC stated, there was a specialist recovery vehicle on it's way.
It's all well and good people finding fault and laying the blame, but at the end of the day what is done is done. As sad as this situation, from where i'm sitting only lawyers will gain anything.*


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Read the thread, the recovery vehicle had *refused* to tow the vehicle... The recovery vehicle was not on it's way, it had already refused to to the van containing dogs....
> 
> I will repeat I would much rather base my facts from the people there, rather than believe a company that is now trying to cover it's tracks....


Refused due to it being to heavy to tow? The specialist vehicle which could tow it was on it's way.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Can I reiterate what others have written on here?

Firstly that the facts of the incident have come from those involved in the accident directly, not via conjecture or what has been written in the press. 

Secondly, the debate is out of place in a thread that should be given support to those involved, and their friends who feel the dreadful loss most keenly.

Can we accept that there are lessons to be learned? The RAC are not blameless whatever the original driver did or did not do. They, more than most, will know what the life expectancy is on the side of a motorway, and had they not been able to remove the women and dogs within that time should have notified the police or made other arrangements. That is what I find most shocking. 

But there are also lessons for the rest of us who regularly travel with our canine companions. The fact it has raised proactive discussions elsewhere about how we can protect our dogs and ensure they are rescued too is one positive to come out of this terrible accident. 

People who were not there, who do not know the people involved should not argue from a position of ignorance.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I would suspect being a call centre all calls to the rac are recorded so they would not be able to alter those phone calls and facts after the event to an enquiry

Is it possible both cases were true the first driver would not attend so a second specialist truck was on its way? Interested to hear if the driver said no or the whole organisation if so were they expected to sort themselves out?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I've not had time to listen to it yet but


> Carrie Russell-Smith speaks to DOG WORLD after the horrific accident - See more at: News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

Pointermum said:


> I've not had time to listen to it yet but


Thanks for this, I'm listening to it now. I advice others to the same. You might learn something and stop ruining the reputation of a company without facts.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

something ridiculous said:


> Thanks for this, I'm listening to it now. I advice others to the same. You might learn something and stop ruining the reputation of a company without facts.


I can only conclude that you work for this company, or have close ties with it in someway.

This accident has brought to the dog loving public it's _own written policy_ on carrying dogs - which is at their discretion. If it makes people search for a rescue organisation that does indeed promise to get dogs and owners home in the event of a breakdown or accident the that can be the only good thing to come out of this.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I can only conclude that you work for this company, or have close ties with it in someway.
> 
> This accident has brought to the dog loving public it's _own written policy_ on carrying dogs - which is at their discretion. If it makes people search for a rescue organisation that does indeed promise to get dogs and owners home in the event of a breakdown or accident the that can be the only good thing to come out of this.


I have nothing to do with this company, but I know if it was my company being slandered all over the internet I wouldn't be best pleased. The dogs were not a problem to the RAC, the size of the vehicle was. They were trying to find a recovery company who could help, but the dogs were a problem to them. Check your facts before ruining companies.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> I've not had time to listen to it yet but


So so sad


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

something ridiculous said:


> I have nothing to do with this company, but I know if it was my company being slandered all over the internet I wouldn't be best pleased. The dogs were not a problem to the RAC, the size of the vehicle was. They were trying to find a recovery company who could help, but the dogs were a problem to them. Check your facts before ruining companies.


I suggest you check yours with the people who were there.

I cannot understand how you could read that distressing article, and yet your only comment is to defend the RAC!!


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## The Voice of Reason (Nov 16, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I can only conclude that you work for this company, or have close ties with it in someway.


If Something Riduculous did indeed work for the RAC, then it might reasonable to expect that siad member has access to more information regarding this than most.
As SR has stated that they do not work for the RAC or have links to them, then it might be wise to not jump to conclusions without knowing the facts, something which SR said previously themselves.

It is sad that accusations are still being thrown without facts after all of the comments posted in the regard, and to me it says alot about the people doing it. 
Sorry if that offends anyone, but just as the RAC now face the consequences of their actions whether they did or did not refuse to tow when physically able to, then those throwing accusations must be prepared for others to question those accusations.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I suggest you check yours with the people who were there.


I just listened to the interview posted on here. She was there. Were you?


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## PembrokeMadhouse (May 18, 2009)

I am not going jump into a row, but want to comment on this terrible accident, which I point out can and could have happened to any one of us. I was in a similar position in the summer, broke down on the M40 in rush hour, stuck with 3 children and 2 dogs standing on a hard shoulder with lorries and cars bearing down on us ... my recovery van refused to pick us up because of the dogs. Luckily I was only half an hour from family and they come down the junction and picked up the kids and dogs, but they were still on the hard shoulder for over two hours with me flapping around and shouting at them to keep away from the edge. Once the kids and dogs were safe, I was left on the hard shoulder with the car waiting for the recovery to come, 2 hours later - luckily it was during the hot spell of weather ... needless to say, I found out who my friends were who came to pick me and the car up in the end, and I changed to the AA who seem to say that they will take animals as long as they're aware of them from the first call to the call centre ... we will see, because I don't often go anywhere in the car without my doggies ... hopefully it won't break down again.

Just one point of note which nobody seems to have commented on, but if that is the way that a campervan disintegrates on an impact, then I for one have decided that I don't want one ... I am shocked at the way it was completely destroyed, like cardboard. 

C x


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

PembrokeMadhouse said:


> I am not going jump into a row, but want to comment on this terrible accident, which I point out can and could have happened to any one of us. I was in a similar position in the summer, broke down on the M40 in rush hour, stuck with 3 children and 2 dogs standing on a hard shoulder with lorries and cars bearing down on us ... my recovery van refused to pick us up because of the dogs. Luckily I was only half an hour from family and they come down the junction and picked up the kids and dogs, but they were still on the hard shoulder for over two hours with me flapping around and shouting at them to keep away from the edge. Once the kids and dogs were safe, I was left on the hard shoulder with the car waiting for the recovery to come, 2 hours later - luckily it was during the hot spell of weather ... needless to say, I found out who my friends were who came to pick me and the car up in the end, and I changed to the AA who seem to say that they will take animals as long as they're aware of them from the first call to the call centre ... we will see, because I don't often go anywhere in the car without my doggies ... hopefully it won't break down again.
> 
> Just one point of note which nobody seems to have commented on, but if that is the way that a campervan disintegrates on an impact, then I for one have decided that I don't want one ... I am shocked at the way it was completely destroyed, like cardboard.
> 
> C x


Obviously a very scary event. Can I ask? Did you check what the policy of the recovery company was regarding the dogs before you took the cover?

I have to confess that I have not given it a single thought before now. Just checked on the AA website (of which I am a member) and it states: Leave animals in the vehicle or, in an emergency, keep them under proper control on the verge.

This does imply that they will recover animals, however, I will now take steps to find out for sure - just in case.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

PembrokeMadhouse said:


> Just one point of note which nobody seems to have commented on, but if that is the way that a campervan disintegrates on an impact, then I for one have decided that I don't want one ... I am shocked at the way it was completely destroyed, like cardboard.
> 
> C x


Unfortunately no vehicle would have stood a chance. If the truck was going full speed (60 mph), and being a 40ft articulated lorry it would have obliterated anything in its path


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

PembrokeMadhouse said:


> I am not going jump into a row, but want to comment on this terrible accident, which I point out can and could have happened to any one of us. I was in a similar position in the summer, broke down on the M40 in rush hour, stuck with 3 children and 2 dogs standing on a hard shoulder with lorries and cars bearing down on us ... my recovery van refused to pick us up because of the dogs. Luckily I was only half an hour from family and they come down the junction and picked up the kids and dogs, but they were still on the hard shoulder for over two hours with me flapping around and shouting at them to keep away from the edge. Once the kids and dogs were safe, I was left on the hard shoulder with the car waiting for the recovery to come, 2 hours later - luckily it was during the hot spell of weather ... needless to say, I found out who my friends were who came to pick me and the car up in the end, and I changed to the AA who seem to say that they will take animals as long as they're aware of them from the first call to the call centre ... we will see, because I don't often go anywhere in the car without my doggies ... hopefully it won't break down again.
> 
> Just one point of note which nobody seems to have commented on, but if that is the way that a campervan disintegrates on an impact, then I for one have decided that I don't want one ... I am shocked at the way it was completely destroyed, like cardboard.
> 
> C x


My son has a motorhome, a large one, and when told him about this accident and how there was nothing left of the motorhome,he said he wasn't surprised as a lot of it is made up of only fibreglass, i will worry about him now when they come over here, he lives in Spain and has 2 little dogs


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

PembrokeMadhouse said:


> I am not going jump into a row, but want to comment on this terrible accident, which I point out can and could have happened to any one of us. I was in a similar position in the summer, broke down on the M40 in rush hour, stuck with 3 children and 2 dogs standing on a hard shoulder with lorries and cars bearing down on us ... my recovery van refused to pick us up because of the dogs. Luckily I was only half an hour from family and they come down the junction and picked up the kids and dogs, but they were still on the hard shoulder for over two hours with me flapping around and shouting at them to keep away from the edge. Once the kids and dogs were safe, I was left on the hard shoulder with the car waiting for the recovery to come, 2 hours later - luckily it was during the hot spell of weather ... needless to say, I found out who my friends were who came to pick me and the car up in the end, and I changed to the AA who seem to say that they will take animals as long as they're aware of them from the first call to the call centre ... we will see, because I don't often go anywhere in the car without my doggies ... hopefully it won't break down again.
> 
> *Just one point of note which nobody seems to have commented on, but if that is the way that a campervan disintegrates on an impact, then I for one have decided that I don't want one ... I am shocked at the way it was completely destroyed, like cardboard.
> *
> C x


Most modern cars have crumble zones designed to absorb some of the impact . I don't think your allowed to travel in the back of motor homes (i may be wrong) therefore it may be part of the crumple zone ..... i could be talking rubbish though   Not hat most things would do well against a lorry on a motorway 

Dropping DD off at gymnastics now then i'm going to listen to the interview.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Cars crumple inwards too, I think if it was a car the dogs and ladies wouldn't have survived


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> Cars crumple inwards too, I think if it was a car the dogs and ladies wouldn't have survived


Can't 'like' your post as I think you are right.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I cannot understand how you could read that distressing article, and yet your only comment is to defend the RAC!!


So you ignored my first comment then......................... lets not make this personal.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

EmCHammer said:


> I would suspect being a call centre all calls to the rac are recorded so they would not be able to alter those phone calls and facts after the event to an enquiry
> 
> Is it possible both cases were true the first driver would not attend so a second specialist truck was on its way? Interested to hear if the driver said no or the whole organisation if so were they expected to sort themselves out?


It has been reported from source that the a Driver refused to move the vehicle because it contained loose dogs, which we know now that this was not the case, at that point in time it had nothing to do with any recovery vehicle, it was some 3 hours later after the accident it was reported the recovery vehicle was on the way stuck in the tail back caused by the truck smashing into the Motor Home.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

something ridiculous said:


> So you ignored my first comment then......................... lets not make this personal.


No, probably isnt interested in arguing with you on a sad thread.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> Most modern cars have crumble zones designed to absorb some of the impact . I don't think your allowed to travel in the back of motor homes (i may be wrong) therefore it may be part of the crumple zone ..... i could be talking rubbish though   Not hat most things would do well against a lorry on a motorway
> 
> .


Pointermum, You can sit in the back of a Motorhome whilst travelling Seatbelts are in place for all forward facing seats, seats placed at the sides sides don't need seat belts, unless you are carrying a child. According to reports it was an older model of Dethletts which are German made, with the driver's door being on the road side. They are very well built but not to withstand a fully laden lorry travelling at speed, if they have had of been in a car the consequences could have been a lot worse.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I would like to hear the lorry drivers account,how was it possible for him to run into them.


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## something ridiculous (Mar 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> No, probably isnt interested in arguing with you on a sad thread.


Arguing. I was simply stating that my comment was about how sad it was.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I would like to hear the lorry drivers account,how was it possible for him to run into them.


Maybe he had a blow-out?

It's not always down to someone's careless act.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Just for information anyone with Greenflag (like me) will have animals transported but its driver's discretion. So I think in future if you break down, I'd give them exact details at the time of the call about the animals.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Was in tears listening to that lady talking about finding the crushed bodies of the dogs which died, how heartbreaking it must have been
I have not herd anything anywhere on the news about this accident though
The young girl sound to be improving,


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Wiz201 said:


> Just for information anyone with Greenflag (like me) will have animals transported but its driver's discretion. So I think in future if you break down, I'd give them exact details at the time of the call about the animals.


From what i can make out the RAC is the same .

I've just listened to the interview , she said the RAC had trouble getting someone to come out to them because of the dogs , i wonder if it was more to do with the fact it was the early AM's of Sunday morning and they often out source these things to local companies. Probably wasn't worth their while getting out of bed :frown2:

Hubs use to have a unreliable four wheel drive car, they always insisted sending a normal patrol van out to him fist even if he told them 100% he needed towing , so he would wait a hour or so for the first van for them to then say they needed a flat back loader which he would then wait another 3 hrs for and it was always a local company , not the AA one in his case !


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## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Moral of the story is - do as told - get you and your loved ones the other side of the K-Rail and up the bank. Sitting on the hard shoulder is never the best plan.

RAC go out to fix a vehicle. Until they arrive they will not know if they can or not - they are only human and prob not psychic. After it was ascertained it was unrepairable, they called for another truck.... 

What was mechanic no.1 supposed to do? Call every RAC Van in the area to swarm and park up along the hardshoulder to get them all off?? I mean, how many fully tooled up with spares and tools RAC Vans would you need in order to fit in three women, and twelve dogs with crates? 

It's tragic, and a shame RAC don't have more specialist/heavy towers to get non-standard vehicles picked up quicker, but I see WAY too many broken down peeps sat in cars 1ft away from the live lane.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

No statement has been made as yet I don't think about why the lorry driver hit them


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't think "at the driver's discretion" is satisfactory tbh.

If you set off on a journey with dogs you want to know you can DEFINITELY be rescued if you breakdown - not rely on getting a dog-friendly driver? That makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

I think, as dog owners, we need to take a few more precautions when we travel, perhaps.

I would hate to be sitting at the side of a fast and noisy motorway with a dog on a normal collar and lead, for example. So easy for a scared dog to pull out of a collar - then a loose dog on a motorway? 

I think this needs much more consideration for future journeys, for my own peace of mind.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Just in case anyone is interested I found this a bit ago
AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I don't think "at the driver's discretion" is satisfactory tbh.
> 
> If you set off on a journey with dogs you want to know you can DEFINITELY be rescued if you breakdown - not rely on getting a dog-friendly driver? That makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Bit to close at home to me as five weeks ago I spent two hours by the side of the M25 with Bess with just a normal lead and collar. She lunged forward to get something she saw under the safety barrier and the clasp on the lead broke! Luckily OH shouted and she paused long enough for him to grab her collar. That was really frightening. There would have been a pile up that day if she'd got onto the road.

A dog gets very bored sitting beside a motorway. One was bad enough to keep amused - two or more would have been awful. Where we broke down was between two junctions so you couldn't climb up away from the hard shoulder, and nowhere to walk to stretch your legs. Let me assure you behind the crash barrier is littered with broken glass, rusty tins etc, so really not somewhere you want to move around much.

I'm going to check the companies out - and look into the link Spellweaver posted earlier as I'd hate to have been waiting that long and then find we weren't going to get towed home.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> Totally agree. Bit to close at home to me as five weeks ago I spent two hours by the side of the M25 with Bess with just a normal lead and collar. She lunged forward to get something she saw under the safety barrier and the clasp on the lead broke! Luckily OH shouted and she paused long enough for him to grab her collar. That was really frightening. There would have been a pile up that day if she'd got onto the road.
> 
> A dog gets very bored sitting beside a motorway. One was bad enough to keep amused - two or more would have been awful. Where we broke down was between two junctions so you couldn't climb up away from the hard shoulder, and nowhere to walk to stretch your legs. Let me assure you behind the crash barrier is littered with broken glass, rusty tins etc, so really not somewhere you want to move around much.
> 
> I'm going to check the companies out - and look into the link Spellweaver posted earlier as I'd hate to have been waiting that long and then find we weren't going to get towed home.


Don't forget with a caravan your needs are different, many companies won't tow your caravan or will only tow it to the nearest repair centre.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

When I had to wait by the roadside with my dog, I put a slip lead on as well just to be double sure.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

fierceabby said:


> Moral of the story is - do as told - get you and your loved ones the other side of the K-Rail and up the bank. Sitting on the hard shoulder is never the best plan.


Very true, but the early hours of Saturday morning were freezing - I got thoroughly chilled in just 15 minutes loading the car for the Supreme. Even with many layers, sitting still on cold ground with no source of heat for three hours is a recipe for hypothermia. Also, looking at the location, I think it would have been hard to get the dog crates up the steep embankment and into the fairly dense woodland beyond the crash barrier, and would you leave your animals alone in a vehicle? Plus the main door of the home opened on the side of the motorway, not the bank, so they didn't feel safe using it to get the dogs out.

I'm not saying they did the right thing by staying put, just that I can understand why they made that choice.



fierceabby said:


> RAC go out to fix a vehicle. Until they arrive they will not know if they can or not - they are only human and prob not psychic. After it was ascertained it was unrepairable, they called for another truck....
> 
> What was mechanic no.1 supposed to do? Call every RAC Van in the area to swarm and park up along the hardshoulder to get them all off?? I mean, how many fully tooled up with spares and tools RAC Vans would you need in order to fit in three women, and twelve dogs with crates?
> 
> It's tragic, and a shame RAC don't have more specialist/heavy towers to get non-standard vehicles picked up quicker, but I see WAY too many broken down peeps sat in cars 1ft away from the live lane.


Listening to the podcast, no RAC patrol actually turned up, their only contact with the RAC was via phone and they were still waiting for someone to show up when the lorry hit them. RAC are saying that because of the dogs they had trouble getting someone to agree to attend. I'm willing to take a punt that some of the ones that said 'no' are finding it difficult to live with themselves right now.

Personally, the thing that still baffles me the most is why the police/motorway patrols were never notified - if that is SOP as a previous poster said it was during their time in the industry, then process hasn't been followed somewhere, and flashing blue lights may have made all the difference.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Snoringbear said:


> When I had to wait by the roadside with my dog, I put a slip lead on as well just to be double sure.


I make sure I at least have a double ended lead in the car now.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

This might be worth checking out for future reference, in case you are travelling with dogs.:-

AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Link to the coverage by Dog World also a link to a podcast given by Carrie herself, well worth listening to

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/104798


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Can we also remember the RAC were not the ones that smashed up the vehicle ! That was down to an articulated lorry !!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tashi said:


> Link to the coverage by Dog World also a link to a podcast given by Carrie herself, well worth listening to
> 
> News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld


i think this is the same that was already posted earlier isnt it? I was almost in tears listening to it,very very sad.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

we love bsh's said:


> i think this is the same that was already posted earlier isnt it? I was almost in tears listening to it,very very sad.


Might have been, I have been to a funeral today so just catching up. I spoke to Carrie last night bless her


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

BessieDog said:


> I make sure I at least have a double ended lead in the car now.


When I helped police rescue the overheating dogs in the summer, I was shocked that there were only *TWO* leads for *THREE* dogs in the car!!!!



mummyschnauzer said:


> This might be worth checking out for future reference, in case you are travelling with dogs.:-
> AA Serviced UK Pet Car Breakdown Service and Breakdown Cover for Vehicles Carrying Pets


I know someone who is with them.
Their van broke down at a show, on a very hot day this summer. They were not allowed to take their three large dogs in the cab, and were told the dogs would have to travel in the van.

This they weren't keen on as it was so hot - and neither were they allowed to travel in the van with the dogs to make sure they didn't overheat.

They ended up waiting at the show for three hours until the temperature had cooled down enough for the dogs to remain in the van safely.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

I have experience of the AA and RAC.

AA - My car wouldn't start and I was in the middle of nowhere over a mile from the main road with no mobile signal.
As it was very cold I took Flint with me when I walked out of the forest to get a signal.
When I eventually got a signal the AA were not quite sure where I was and asked me to stay at the road end and flag the van down.
After about 1 1/2 hours the van turned up,I wasn't expecting it to be any quicker as I mentioned I was miles from anywhere.
By then me and Flint were soaking wet and very cold.
The driver happily let me and Flint in his cab for the journey back to my car.

RAC - I had a flat tyre on a Sunday evening about 30 miles from home,my car does not have a spare tyre,just some air thing to blow up the one that's on.
Because of my disability I couldn't do that so called out the RAC,I explained that I had 3 dogs with me and I was on my own.
They got to me just over an hour later.
The RAC man explained that all he could do was blow up the tyre as I didn't have a spare.
I was a bit worried about this as I still had a long way to go.
He said he would follow me all the way home to make sure I got there.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Not liked because if what the lorry did but because I agree with you


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## Bentalos (Nov 30, 2013)

Thats the problem with motor homes, They have only one door and its on the drivers side, hence to get the dogs out you will be standing in the slow lane of the motorway so it would have been more dangerous to remove the dogs. The problem is basic health and safety with vehicles. ALWAYS CARRY BREAK DOWN KITS INCLUDING WARNING TRIANGLES AND LIGHTS. It is law to carry in some countries and is just basic common sense. Reflective triangles set 200 yards to the rear of the vehicle could have prevented this tragic accident.

BREAK DOWN KITS CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE - IF YOUR ON A MOTORWAY GET ONE.

This was a sad event, personally Ive already cancelled my policy with the RAC. But if you learn nothing else from this go get some refelctive warning triangles and lights.


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## jonb (Nov 15, 2012)

Bentalos said:


> BREAK DOWN KITS CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE - IF YOUR ON A MOTORWAY GET ONE.
> 
> This was a sad event, personally Ive already cancelled my policy with the RAC. But if you learn nothing else from this go get some refelctive warning triangles and lights.


do you think so?If the lorry driver can`t see a large camper how would they see a triangle?


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

Bentalos said:


> Thats the problem with motor homes, They have only one door and its on the drivers side, hence to get the dogs out you will be standing in the slow lane of the motorway so it would have been more dangerous to remove the dogs. The problem is basic health and safety with vehicles. ALWAYS CARRY BREAK DOWN KITS INCLUDING WARNING TRIANGLES AND LIGHTS. It is law to carry in some countries and is just basic common sense. Reflective triangles set 200 yards to the rear of the vehicle could have prevented this tragic accident.
> 
> BREAK DOWN KITS CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE - IF YOUR ON A MOTORWAY GET ONE.
> 
> This was a sad event, personally Ive already cancelled my policy with the RAC. But if you learn nothing else from this go get some refelctive warning triangles and lights.


Actually the advice is NEVER use a warning triangle on the motorway. You are in more danger walking down the middle of the hard shoulder and they can blow away onto the carriageway. So I'm sorry but it's not common sense on a motorway.


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