# Siamese X kittens for £350



## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

I've seen it all now. There's a cretin on freeads selling 'siamese cross' kittens for a whopping £350. I mean...........seriously. That's what I charge for my registered, innoculated, insured and health checked pedigrees. Taking the mick. Also, I've noticed people on preloved selling 'Breeding stud cat' and 'Breeding queen' that are unregistered. So annoying.:mad5:


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

beyond words really


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

Why would an idiot pay £350 for a cross breed when you can have the real thing, complete with vaccinations etc and a life time of support for the same money?

The mind boggles, but I suppose while idiots pay for it the dubious breeders will keep churning them out


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Preloved seems to attract those sort of sellers for some reason


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## fizavi (May 8, 2011)

its the same for peeps on there selling reptiles that are 'rare; or imports


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

I know of a woman down my neck of the woods that leaves her 2 siamese queens roam free because she can just churn the kittens out at £150 a shot. Poor cats are having at least 3 litters a year and there's a queue of idiots wanting to buy. In my book, siamese x filthy tom cat = poor little moggie kittens.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I always wonder if people actually sell them when they ask such silly prices. Even £150 for a half pedigree seems optimistic to me.

Liz


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

lizward said:


> I always wonder if people actually sell them when they ask such silly prices. Even £150 for a half pedigree seems optimistic to me.
> 
> Liz


Well, she seems to be advertising regularly and never drops her price. It's ridiculous. But people are charing daft prices for moggies too. I remember paying £20 for my first moggie 13 years ago. . . . . . . and I only took her because I was worried she might catch fleas from the kids in the house.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I know   and people STILL buy them?!?!

I dunno why I bother really sometimes, when people ask me to reduce my price to £200, with full health tests, yet a cross can go for £350 at 7weeks and sell as quick as its born  

makes me really depressed :frown2:

so many people selling 'unspayed' I email them begging to neuter them and they say 'we can get more money if its not neutered' :frown2:

whats the point in even bothering to stop it, I think Ive given up.

oh as for £150 siamese cross moggie, very much will get that, crosses easily get £300 now, at 6-8weeks of age, infact maine coon cross chin persian for £400 on the sister site to here, all sold. some go up to £400 :frown2: see some for £600, no paperwork, all sold.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> I know   and people STILL buy them?!?!
> 
> I dunno why I bother really sometimes, when people ask me to reduce my price to £200, with full health tests, yet a cross can go for £350 at 7weeks and sell as quick as its born
> 
> makes me really depressed :frown2:


I have to wonder sometimes if there isn't some inverse logic behind all of this. As in, if you're selling "snooty" purebreds, then you must by definition be overcharging, because they're snooty cats. Therefore a certain brand of wouldbe cat buyer feels compelled to try to talk you down. But a cross, now that's a cat worth the price, because who would overcharge for that? And it's a cross! A designer breed! Just without the groovy name. :frown2:

I dunno. Just a thought. Nothing really makes sense about it but I live around a lot of people with that attitude. Not about cats as much as dogs, and they're all terribly uninformed. But they would proudly pay a lot for a labradoodle, but they would instantly feel ripped off for the same price for a purebred labrador.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dagny0823 said:


> . But they would proudly pay a lot for a labradoodle, but they would instantly feel ripped off for the same price for a purebred labrador.


oh my god I know!!! a labradoodle = from £500-1,000, a lab £350-500??  Makes no sense at all in my eyes.

I cant look at adverts anymore I get to upset, esp when I see a ALL black cat advertise as a 'siamese cross ragdoll' which obvbiously is genetially impossible 

then people making up crosses about 4 of them but its a moggie, and people are falling for it, these people must have such low IQ's, dunno how they manage in daily life, I really dont know. :frown2:


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

A fool and his money are easily parted.

I think it has a lot to do with the society we live in. People decide they want something and they want it NOW! Rather than research breeds, breeders etc.. they just log on, see cats for sale, ask no questions, buy it. Almost instant gratification.

Sadly the "breeders" are not breaking the law (unless they are breaking contract agreements not to breed from a non-active registered cat) and there are plenty of fools out there who are prepared to pay for their "pedigree" Ragdoll cross or whatever. They have no idea what a pedigree really is. They see a cute kitten- Bingo-they are hooked. The behaviour and health of the cat will not be on their tiny minds.

For many of these potential kitten buyers being on a breeders waiting list, sometimes for months and months, waiting for the right cat, is just not something they will contemplate. It would not satisfy their want, want, want, now, now, now mentality.

For those of you who are ethical breeders it must be really frustrating but I personally can not see the situation changing anytime soon.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I think a lot of it comes down to the age of the kittens, people want them at 8 weeks. I find I get a lot of calls (for kittens advertised as fully vaccinated) and the first question I get asked is how old are they. The interest wanes as soon as I say they are 12 / 13 / 14 weeks :frown2:

Liz


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Dont understand it really  my sister has a labradoodle, I think she cost £200  I know if I can ever get the dog I want it will cost around £1,000 if not a bit more . Its so wrong for a moggy breader to ask for so much money though  , I know they may only have two breeds but if the mum is siamese Id be wondering what the dad is. Another cross? Theres no way of knowing is there


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

someone had moggie cross britishshorthair all sold for £195, then advertised the green eyed ginger moggie as a pedigree ragdoll for stud £150 a pop!


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> someone had moggie cross britishshorthair all sold for £195, then advertised the green eyed ginger moggie as a pedigree ragdoll for stud £150 a pop!


how the hell can u sell a ginger moggie as a raggie???


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

Kitty_pig said:


> how the hell can u sell a ginger moggie as a raggie???


Because some people are very very very stupid?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Kitty_pig said:


> how the hell can u sell a ginger moggie as a raggie???


theyr arent selling it, they are studding it out and crossing it with her other cats saying its a ragdoll, its white & ginger with green eyes and £150 a stud fee 

It maybe a cross as it does carry the colourpoint gene as it was put with a colourpoint & produced colourpoints.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> theyr arent selling it, they are studding it out and crossing it with her other cats saying its a ragdoll, its white & ginger with green eyes and £150 a stud fee
> 
> It maybe a cross as it does carry the colourpoint gene as it was put with a colourpoint & produced colourpoints.


I think it's the rare person who would even know that sort of thing. They hear "Ragdoll" and have some vague notion about what a ragdoll cat is and that they're pretty cool to have and then that's that.

A "friend" (or rather friend-like-thing) of mine adopted a pair of brothers from the shelter a couple of years ago. They appeared to have some ragdoll in them--they were white, had the little grey spot on their heads as kittens, which faded, they had the bunny soft fur, and were incredibly laidback cats. When he decided he didn't want them any more (less than a year later), he was telling people they were ragdolls. Thank goodness he wasn't trying to sell them, but still. People like the mystique of a purebred anything. And I think if you're uneducated or dumb or whatever, there is somehow some added mystique if it's a cross of two exotic and wonderful sounding breeds. If only he had known what these two were crossed with, I'm sure he would have used it, as in "Ohh, they're ragamese" or some such.


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

dagny0823 said:


> "Ohh, they're ragamese"


Oh I love Ragamese :devil:


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## LittleTyke (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm going to play devils advocate now and say... What if the labradoodle thing took off in the cat world, that is to say, two registered and pedigree cats (breeding and health history known) but two different breeds are bred together. An example would be the Burmilla. Beautiful breeds can be produced at it also widens the gene pool so that genetic disorders that now dominate the pedigree dog world might not hit the pedigree cat world.
Just to throw that out there lol, what do you all think?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

There are quite a lot of pedigree breeds which started as hybrids. It takes a long time and deep pockets to breed them true and get a breed recognised to full championship status. There are pros and cons where the gene pool is concerned. It's fine if the foundation breeds have a wide gene pool but not so great if you're starting from a very restricted one.

And on the original subject - why do people pay silly money for 'crossbreeds'? In many cases it's because the 'breeder' doesn't care who they sell to. It's a straight cash transaction with no questions asked. Chances are some of them are enquiries some of us didn't exactly rush to follow up because we care where our kittens go.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

LittleTyke said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate now and say... What if the labradoodle thing took off in the cat world, that is to say, two registered and pedigree cats (breeding and health history known) but two different breeds are bred together. An example would be the Burmilla. Beautiful breeds can be produced at it also widens the gene pool so that genetic disorders that now dominate the pedigree dog world might not hit the pedigree cat world.
> Just to throw that out there lol, what do you all think?


as havoc said to create a actual breed, will take years, a burmilla, is a breed it isnt a cross, nor would a burmese cross chinchilla = burmilla.

a lab cross poodle = labradoodle, so there is no needs to create a breed, there will never be a labradoodle breed, dont beleive anything you read either saying that there will be!


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2011)

At some point a labradoodle will become 'it's own breed'

Cockerpoos have been around for 60ish years to me that's a breed! Not 
KC recognised but sure is world wide!

Proper breeders are trying to create a breed buy multigeneration breeding so over so many years I think things like labradoodles & cockerpoos will have their own recognised breed! 

I imagine the same may happen with cats but I think the 'cat world' are a bit behind with a lot of other things that should get sorted first!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

BSH said:


> Oh I love Ragamese :devil:


They are most attractive


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

holly2009 said:


> At some point a labradoodle will become 'it's own breed'
> 
> Cockerpoos have been around for 60ish years to me that's a breed! Not
> KC recognised but sure is world wide!
> ...


the KC hacve already had a statment out that it wont become a 'breed'

A BREED is *NOT* a first cross, you need generations and generations of the 'breed' and a breed standard.

cockers / labs /whatever crossed with a poodle is a first cross, the highest you will find is about a F4 (4 generations)

because these people are NOT interested in creating abreed, (neither was the guy who invented it, he wanted a good dog for people who had allergies and was blind, and he has said that if he could take it all back, he would!!)

hence why 98% are first crosses, so 60years of breeding a first crosses = a pointless 60years of breeding first crosses....

which is why...they will never become a breed 

oh am i still on ignore? guess she wont see this then.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> as havoc said to create a actual breed, will take years, a burmilla, is a breed it isnt a cross, nor would a burmese cross chinchilla = burmilla.
> 
> a lab cross poodle = labradoodle, so there is no needs to create a breed, there will never be a labradoodle breed, dont beleive anything you read either saying that there will be!


The AKC over here in the states has recognized them in some form, along with cockapoos and a few others.:skep:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dagny0823 said:


> The AKC over here in the states has recognized them in some form, along with cockapoos and a few others.:skep:


yes possibly as a 'cross' but the AKC also released a statment saying that it wont become a breed, can find it on google, wasa fair few years back, as people breeding them KEEP telling people that 'its nearly a breed!! next year!!' :lol: lol

so they released statments so people wont keep asking! :thumbup1:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

LittleTyke said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate now and say... What if the labradoodle thing took off in the cat world, that is to say, two registered and pedigree cats (breeding and health history known) but two different breeds are bred together. An example would be the Burmilla. Beautiful breeds can be produced at it also widens the gene pool so that genetic disorders that now dominate the pedigree dog world might not hit the pedigree cat world.
> Just to throw that out there lol, what do you all think?


I think that's fine, but as others have said, it takes years to create a "real" new breed that's accepted. And some random cross someone made in their living room because they had a cute purebred and their friend had another one of a different breed and opposite sex shouldn't sell for 3x the amount the parents did, just because it's fashionable, or designer, or whathaveyou. Then it's just about making money off of animals.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> yes possibly as a 'cross' but the AKC also released a statment saying that it wont become a breed, can find it on google, wasa fair few years back, as people breeding them KEEP telling people that 'its nearly a breed!! next year!!' :lol: lol
> 
> so they released statments so people wont keep asking! :thumbup1:


hehe, let them keep dreaming. :lol:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Am I wrong in thinking that to become a new breed you have to breed two of the crossbreeds together and produce young of the crossbred variety? And also do so for several generations until they breed true i.e. that you get young of the crossbred variety every time.
If you breed two cockerpoos do you get cockerpoo pups?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

kunzy said:


> Removed quote


That's so rude. And yet so funny.

Anyway...

Lynn, I think you're right. Doesn't a 'breed' have to have and match a breed standard? And breed true for type? I know coat colour will often differ in some breeds even within the same litter but I can't imagine that Cockperpoos would breed true. But what do I know about dogs


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

lymorelynn said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that to become a new breed you have to breed two of the crossbreeds together and produce young of the crossbred variety? And also do so for several generations until they breed true i.e. that you get young of the crossbred variety every time.
> If you breed two cockerpoos do you get cockerpoo pups?


I dont know the time scale involved but with two totally different breeds surely it must take many,many, generations for a "type" to be produced in all puppies..At what point do you stop getting poodle features/cocker features .It is difficult enough to breed out an unwanted breed fault ,ie physical breed point,not health related, from a "breed" never mind a mixture of two breeds.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What I know about dogs just about fits onto a postage stamp


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> yes possibly as a 'cross' but the AKC also released a statment saying that it wont become a breed, can find it on google, wasa fair few years back, as people breeding them KEEP telling people that 'its nearly a breed!! next year!!' :lol: lol
> 
> so they released statments so people wont keep asking! :thumbup1:


Oh, okay. I just remember something about a whole list of "recognized" crossbreeds, which I took to mean the first step to breed acceptability. I apologize (I'm doing paperwork for work right now, and this forum is my diversion/procrastination tool )


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

lymorelynn said:


> What I know about dogs just about fits onto a postage stamp


I do know a bit more about dog breeding than cats as I did breed dogs a few years ago.So have a grasp on the difficulties in trying to produce a "type" within a specific breed and how difficult it would be to produce a "type"with two very different breeds that you could build a Breed Standard on.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

buffie said:


> I dont know the time scale involved but with two totally different breeds surely it must take many,many, generations for a "type" to be produced in all puppies..At what point do you stop getting poodle features/cocker features .It is difficult enough to breed out an unwanted breed fault ,ie physical breed point,not health related, from a "breed" never mind a mixture of two breeds.


Right, because crosses are unpredictable. That makes them interesting in a way--those of us with moggies and the crossed dogs I've had in the past are/were unique little snowflakes. And just about an hour ago, I had my youngest dog to the vet and he met a new friend there who was a sharpei/cocker cross. The owner said his siblings all looked very cocker with curly hair, smaller bodies, etc. But this one had almost a lab type body, very short hair and a wrinkly face. He was cute, but obviously there can't be a breed standard in that cross (if we just pretend for a minute that there's a developing breed called a ..... cocker pei? Shar-cock? I give up)


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

dagny0823 said:


> Right, because crosses are unpredictable. That makes them interesting in a way--those of us with moggies and the crossed dogs I've had in the past are/were unique little snowflakes. And just about an hour ago, I had my youngest dog to the vet and he met a new friend there who was a sharpei/cocker cross. The owner said his siblings all looked very cocker with curly hair, smaller bodies, etc. But this one had almost a lab type body, very short hair and a wrinkly face. He was cute, but obviously there can't be a breed standard in that cross (if we just pretend for a minute that there's a developing breed called a ..... cocker pei? Shar-cock? I give up)


That is what I find sad.Why ,when cross bred dogs have their own unique charm ,would someone want to label them as something other than that.It makes them sound as though they are substandard just because they dont have a "breed name"which is not true they are dogs just like any other.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

some staffy cross shih tzus & staffy cross cockers forsale on a website today!! selling asa new designer breed, that is one breed that I find pointless, no idea they would do that.

there are enough breeds for everyone! dont need anymore! :thumbup1:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

buffie said:


> That is what I find sad.Why ,when cross bred dogs have their own unique charm ,would someone want to label them as something other than that.It makes them sound as though they are substandard just because they dont have a "breed name"which is not true they are dogs just like any other.


I guess it's because "mutt" has a bad connotation, so if someone is trying to sell for profit, then they don't have mutts to sell, they have something shiny and new and desirable.

I love mutts and moggies and purebreds alike---it's the individual who matters, not the papers or lack thereof. But I've said before (in the recent context of thinking of future kittens), if I'm going to pay for a cat or dog, then it would have to be responsibly bred, the parents tested prior to breeding and the kittens/puppies vaccinated and vet checked, etc. I have no problem with breeders covering their expenses with a little to spare for their time and the love and effort they put in to do it right and all of that, but if money is exchanging hands it's not going to be a mostly for-profit exchange, which is sadly what seems to happen with these so-called "designer breeds". There are so many rare little snowflakes in rescue, and what makes them less valuable than any pedigree or "designer"? It would have to be the care in breeding that goes before hand with responsible pedigree breeding, and maybe some designers.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I dont know the time scale involved but with two totally different breeds surely it must take many,many, generations for a "type" to be produced in all puppies


Know nothing about dogs but if you take the Ocicat as a feline example:-

Original Aby x Siamese cross results in one surprise spotted cat in the litter. This isn't what the breeder was aiming for by the way. This spotted coat is the unique feature which is needed for breed recognition so it doesn't mean by a long stretch that every Aby x Siamese is an Ocicat. For generations a breeder will need to persevere and see if they can get that unique characteristic to breed true. While doing so they will have to outcross to avoid inbreeding and every single kitten they don't keep will be sold as a crossbreed. In the early days it's not unusual for the breeder to give kittens away. They can't just call it an Abysi (or whatever) and claim it as a designer breed. Time, patience, deep, deep pockets and perseverance needed.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

havoc said:


> Know nothing about dogs but if you take the Ocicat as a feline example:-
> 
> Original Aby x Siamese cross results in one surprise spotted cat in the litter. This isn't what the breeder was aiming for by the way. This spotted coat is the unique feature which is needed for breed recognition so it doesn't mean by a long stretch that every Aby x Siamese is an Ocicat. For generations a breeder will need to persevere and see if they can get that unique characteristic to breed true. While doing so they will have to outcross to avoid inbreeding and every single kitten they don't keep will be sold as a crossbreed. In the early days it's not unusual for the breeder to give kittens away. They can't just call it an Abysi (or whatever) and claim it as a designer breed. Time, patience, deep, deep pockets and perseverance needed.


god in the start of a breed it is just a cross/moggie and they do give alot of kittens away or keep entire litters could go on for years!

I find that cat breeders, even crosses dont come up with silly cross names, I think Ive only even seen is twice, alot different in dogs


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I find that cat breeders, even crosses dont come up with silly cross names


I am glad no one thinks my Burmgal, Sphydoll or Permese are stupid names for my new cat breeds


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2011)

Ragdolls are moggies that have become a pedigree due to one persons passion in the '60's' 

The same could & will happen again surely?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

BSH said:


> I am glad no one thinks my Burmgal, Sphydoll or Permese are stupid names for my new cat breeds


do the permese have perms?!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> do the permese have perms?!


Some even go for the" blue rinse" too


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

holly2009 said:


> Ragdolls are moggies that have become a pedigree due to one persons passion in the '60's'
> 
> The same could & will happen again surely?


Yes, but everybody was high on psychedelic drugs in the 60's. Maybe the Ragdoll is a lovely product of someone being high on LSD? 

Seriously though, I can't see any reason why 'it' shouldn't happen again. As Havoc said, it takes decades, patience, lots of money and the will of a group of people to see it through. You can kinda understand why LSD came in handy.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

holly2009 said:


> Ragdolls are moggies that have become a pedigree due to one persons passion in the '60's'
> 
> The same could & will happen again surely?





gskinner123 said:


> Yes, but everybody was high on psychedelic drugs in the 60's. Maybe the Ragdoll is a lovely product of someone being high on LSD?
> 
> Seriously though, I can't see any reason why 'it' shouldn't happen again. As Havoc said, it takes decades, patience, lots of money and the will of a group of people to see it through. You can kinda understand why LSD came in handy.


That was someone, with albit a slighty crazy view  But she had clear vision...not just randomly crossing cats, there was a reason, a purpose a standard etc


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> do the permese have perms?!


Not yet but I soon plan to outcross with a Selkirk Rex that I picked up for £950 on Preloved. This will introduce a few curls into the coat. The progeny will be my fourth new cat breed, a *Selkperm Rexese*.

I will be selling them for £1000 each, unvaccinated. Pedigrees and registration forms will be posted on to you at a later date. I am taking advance orders now. Queens available on the active register for an extra £50.

PM me for details


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

BSH said:


> Not yet but I soon plan to outcross with a Selkirk Rex that I picked up for £950 on Prelove. This will introduce a few curls into the coat. The progeny will be my fourth new cat breed, a *Selkperm Rexese*.
> 
> I will be selling them for £1000 each, unvaccinated. Pedigrees and registration forms will be posted on to you at a later date. I am taking advance orders now. Queens available on the active register for an extra £50.
> 
> PM me for details


you could put the LaPerm cat in for the curls, selkirks to wavy! Then you already have the perm name! 

what about a bengal thrown in the mix? and a snowshow? a snowperm


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

BSH said:


> Not yet but I soon plan to outcross with a Selkirk Rex that I picked up for £950 on Preloved. This will introduce a few curls into the coat. The progeny will be my fourth new cat breed, a *Selkperm Rexese*.
> 
> I will be selling them for £1000 each, unvaccinated. Pedigrees and registration forms will be posted on to you at a later date. I am taking advance orders now. Queens available on the active register for an extra £50.
> 
> PM me for details


Sounds like a new mini kitty dinosaur :lol:

Only an extra £50 for the active?! I'll take 3 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

BSH said:


> Not yet but I soon plan to outcross with a Selkirk Rex that I picked up for £950 on Preloved. This will introduce a few curls into the coat. The progeny will be my fourth new cat breed, a *Selkperm Rexese*.
> 
> I will be selling them for £1000 each, unvaccinated. Pedigrees and registration forms will be posted on to you at a later date. I am taking advance orders now. Queens available on the active register for an extra £50.
> 
> PM me for details


Do you have any pregnant queens that you're willing to sell? I'll give you an extra 10 quid for every kitten she pops out if they live long enough for me to sell on at 5 weeks.


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> you could put the LaPerm cat in for the curls, selkirks to wavy! Then you already have the perm name!
> 
> what about a bengal thrown in the mix? and a snowshow? a snowperm


Crossing a Selkperm Rexese with a Bengal?!?! Isn't that a little irresponsible? 
How would you be furthering the breed?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Dozymoo said:


> Crossing a Selkperm Rexese with a Bengal?!?! Isn't that a little irresponsible?
> How would you be furthering the breed?


erm because...erm...its creates the a, er, stronger cat...??


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## K337 (May 20, 2011)

Another example like the Ocicat - the Australian Mist (aka Spotted Mist) which is similar to the Oci, but with Burmese instead of Siamese.
I love the Aussie Mists I've seen but I think I still prefer the Ocis. 

If you are lucky enough to know one then you can see that they are the perfect mix of Siamese, Abys, ASH and a lot of hard work


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