# Can i ask peoples opinions on something?



## Superfly108 (Oct 28, 2008)

Ive brushed this idea on other forums i have been on, and not always had the feedback i was hoping for, so feel free to be honest, id just like to gauge peoples opinions. 

We opened our shop Berrywoods Pets in southend, Essex a few weeks back, we had been breeding rats and started to bred mice for the past 3 years, i always wanted to work with animals and always loved seeing how animals id bred had gone on to bring owners such happy times. 

I started to realise how many people had no idea where most petshop animals came from, after having a walk around an animal farm i was stuck on the idea of a shop, that had complete control over the animals it sold, by breeding its own (and doing it well with people who knew what they were doing)

6 months later we have now opened. Ive noticed a large proportion of people dont seem to care where their animals come from which is a shame. 

While our first batch of animals to start breeding what we had never bred before had come from the best places we could find, we are now starting to see litters that are truely ours. 

I spose the idea as a whole was for people to have animals, that we have handled from birth (when mum will allow us) that we know everything we can know about them, to be extra picky where they goto (we dont just "sell" them to anyone, we do quiz people and if not convinced we tell people they cant have them, (i think breeding them our selves gives us that right to ensure they go to people who deserve them) i wanted to be able to give people birth certificates with their date of birth, and mum and dads names, a forum for people to keep us posted on how their new furies are doing (vus we can judge if the line we have been breeding has been a success and how to improve it) and for us to offer them help. I also wanted my shop to be more modern than most, we dont actually say anywhere we are a "petshop" as i try to distance my self from that label

A lot of people on various forums seem to class us as being no different than any other petshop or that we have some desire to try and profit more from breeding our own (which believe me, it doesnt work that way what so ever) 

Be honest if you think its not such a good idea? or if theres other things we can be doing, we've had a hell of a lot critism from some people, the RSPCA were not quite so helpful, we have a lot of people asking if we sell Puppies or kittens (which id never sell) and i wanted to advertise rescue centres, many didnt want their name on our window...

let us know what you think, or if you have any other questions regarding our little venture, also as i mentioned in the intro forum, if anyones in the area and hasnt poped in yet, you're more than welcome to come in for a cuppa and meet some of our pets we keep at the shop


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

woops... didnt actually realise i already had an account on this forum, im so used to typing superfly108 into everything, i didnt realise, ill continue on this account  sorry


----------



## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

I think its great that you are breeding your own animals.

I would normally avoid petshops as I dont like not knowing where the animal has come from. I prefer to go straight to the breeder.

Would be tempted to pop into your shop though when I do get my pet. You are only down the road from me as well!

Just saw your comment on my other thread. I used to want a pet rat when I was a kid. Dont know if i would want one now, they scare me a bit, lol!xx


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

Zayna said:


> I think its great that you are breeding your own animals.
> 
> I would normally avoid petshops as I dont like not knowing where the animal has come from. I prefer to go straight to the breeder.
> 
> ...


rats are the most wonderful pet, people think they're horid, but honestly pop in, meet my boys and it'll change your mind forever, mine are as faithful to me as dogs, they sit on my sholder, lick me, brux (like cats puring) whenever they come out, i cant ever imagine not having rats, its like having a little dog, that shows just as much affection, i have my 2 fav boys, both fight over my love  they are by far the most affectionate,


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

your rats sound amazing, but honestly I wouldn't recommend any one get from a shop, because I do not know any that work like you. Most buy their animals in from rodent farms where the animals are constantly bred, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone bought their pet from such a place. But I'm glad that you are trying to change that and you are different from other pet shops.


----------



## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

Berrywoods said:


> rats are the most wonderful pet, people think they're horid, but honestly pop in, meet my boys and it'll change your mind forever, mine are as faithful to me as dogs, they sit on my sholder, lick me, brux (like cats puring) whenever they come out, i cant ever imagine not having rats, its like having a little dog, that shows just as much affection, i have my 2 fav boys, both fight over my love  they are by far the most affectionate,


are they very expensive to buy and keep? do they need huge cages as well as we are only in a flat!


----------



## GarethMills (Feb 23, 2010)

In all honesty after 10 years in and around the pet trade my experience is that people are more concious of price than who or where the animals are bred. My suggestion would be do not take it to heart and detatch yourself from the life as a breeder and that of pet shop owner, be 2 different people otherwise you will lose heart and at that point you may as well give up, 

Chin up 

Gareth


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Zayna said:


> are they very expensive to buy and keep? do they need huge cages as well as we are only in a flat!


i have rats. set up is expensive, cages can cost £100 or more, but the actual up keep is cheap for a small group of rats. It's only food and bedding (vets bills obviously), but they don't need vaccinating and they aren't routinely neutered. my cage for 3 rats is 80cm x 50cm x 80cm. and they need an area that is rat proof to free range in each night for about an hour.


----------



## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> your rats sound amazing, but honestly I wouldn't recommend any one get from a shop, because I do not know any that work like you. Most buy their animals in from rodent farms where the animals are constantly bred, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone bought their pet from such a place. But I'm glad that you are trying to change that and you are different from other pet shops.


the pet shop where i used to work get theres from local breeders ... they are tame when they get them and they take them out of their cages every single day that they are open to clean them and to handle them .... not all pet shops are bad

good luck with your shop btw


----------



## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i have rats. set up is expensive, cages can cost £100 or more, but the actual up keep is cheap for a small group of rats. It's only food and bedding (vets bills obviously), but they don't need vaccinating and they aren't routinely neutered. my cage for 3 rats is 80cm x 50cm x 80cm. and they need an area that is rat proof to free range in each night for about an hour.


letting them out may be a problem as our flat is open plan. dont really have a secluded area they could run about in. Maybe a rat isnt for us then


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Zayna said:


> letting them out may be a problem as our flat is open plan. dont really have a secluded area they could run about in. Maybe a rat isnt for us then


you can build a playpen from plywood. i did but i have should have made it a bit taller cos they jumped out, but it worked well other than that.


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

rat cages are not always real expensive, we get ours from liberta cages, i can do them (the abode style ones) which you can see on here... for £75 to forum members, (i think thats the price anyway) and its quite a large cage, the tower cage (the bigger brother of the abode) is a touch over £100 and is huge, 

i dread to think how much we've spent on our lot over the years but its been worth it, if you dont huge amounts of room for free range time, boys are better, they get to their lazy stage and prefer cuddles on the sofa, girls prefer to run about, our next litter of rats wont be ready until 20th of May, but will be Black eyed siamese dumbos, i can bet you a fiver you'll never see black eyed siamese in any other petshop, and especially with the good history these guys have. The grand father of these babies is my orion, one of my favourite bucks, very very big boy. 

Thanks for the warm words regarding our venture, we've had so many knock backs from some people it is disheartning, I think if more people knew the conditions most petshop animals come from, they would never buy again, the farm i went to see i know supplies some of the Pets at home stores. We dont breed the G'pigs or rabbits, purely because theres so much involved in selecting who to breed and doing it right, id rather leave it to the pros for now, until ive learnt enough from them to have a go my self, we will be starting g'pigs soon, and im hopefully going to be mentored on how best to do it. Plus its about finding the best pairs from good breeders (Most breeders wont allow us to use any of their lines to start off). Also i can see what you mean about price over where they come from. I refuse to do any sort of "offers" on my animals, they are not products, as far as im cocerned if i sell them for a fair amount minus any sort of offers, only people who really want them will buy them, a lot i wont sell unless in pairs, female mice only in pairs, rats only in pairs, the first litter we had of rats went very fast, word spread we had russian blues / russian blue burmese and people started to come from quite far out for them. 

Its a double sided axe i think with this, id like it if more petshops self supplied, but the problem with this is it needs to be done right, its not a matter of chuck 2 gerbils together and hope for the best, you need to be sure they are not related, they are going to produce nice colours, they are both nice temprement and not have health issues (which is hard to tell without keeping them beyond breedable age) most petshops if they had a go would mess up, and probably do more worse than good. Dont get me wrong i know of petshops who only source from good breeders, but the majority dont and are supplied by places such as simons rodents which as said, just pump out animals like some sort of factory. 

Zayna pop down if your not busy, we're open everyday (very tiring) and we can have a chat about ratties, and you can meet my boys. If you do decide on rats, atleast you can come down see them when they are 1 day old, and watch them grow up until they are 6 weeks.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

i think its an awesoem idea.

haha over summer my mum ansked me what i was gonna do whani finished uni and i said open my own pet shop and breed my own pets!


----------



## jellybean01 (Feb 19, 2010)

I think your shop sounds like a great idea, I think it's a tragic that small animals sold in pet shops aren't handled everyday. So kudos to you 

And for Zayna...I have 2 rats and I keep them in my room, which isn't that big. But still accomodates them quite nicely. They're both young and so far free range time has been limited to my bed - which they seem happy enough with, neither of them has been brave enough to even attempt getting down, so much so that I don't even worry about popping out of the room for a minute or two. However, I know some people have free range time in their bathrooms, which I am considering when the girls get a bit bigger. Would that work for you in your flat? My bathroom isn't that big but I figure it's a change of scenery for them.

Rats are fantastic pets, they're friendly and really clean. And they have such personality about them, I would recommend them to anyone.


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

id never hazard to recomend rats as pets, you'll never regreat i swear, 

im always happy for people to come in and handle my animals, as far as im concerned the more handleing and people they meet the better, that goes for my lot out back as well, thanks again for the kind words, has really made my day, so far its been all negativity, i will deffently be staying on this forum, i just hope my forum will be as busy as this eventually, mine only has about 6 members so far..


----------



## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I wish that I knew of a pet shop that cared as much about its' livestock as you obviously do.


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Berrywoods said:


> rat cages are not always real expensive, we get ours from liberta cages, i can do them (the abode style ones) which you can see on here... for £75 to forum members, (i think thats the price anyway) and its quite a large cage, the tower cage (the bigger brother of the abode) is a touch over £100 and is huge,
> 
> i dread to think how much we've spent on our lot over the years but its been worth it, if you dont huge amounts of room for free range time, boys are better, they get to their lazy stage and prefer cuddles on the sofa, girls prefer to run about, our next litter of rats wont be ready until 20th of May, but will be Black eyed siamese dumbos, i can bet you a fiver you'll never see black eyed siamese in any other petshop, and especially with the good history these guys have. The grand father of these babies is my orion, one of my favourite bucks, very very big boy.
> 
> ...


i have black eyed siamese.  one dumbo, one top ear, and one black eyed himalayan dumbo.


----------



## Superfly108 (Oct 28, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i have black eyed siamese.  one dumbo, one top ear, and one black eyed himalayan dumbo.


i will snap some pictures of my lot in a little bit, i have some real characters,


----------



## ....zoe.... (Jul 8, 2009)

its nice to see more people that really care about the way they run their shop, i work in a small family run business (my bosses are partners and there son also works there) i breed syrian, and winter white dwarfs hamster for the shop, and we also get our rats, mice, guinea pigs, rabbits and budgies from private breeders. although in the past we have also rescued animals (such as rabbits from the vets that had been taken to be put to sleep) 

good luck and keep it up 

wish people would realise that the small pet shop are trying their hardest to keep going and that they are the businesses that REALLY care about the animals. not all pet shop are the same


----------



## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

great idea for a shop superfly. well done you for doing something like this, you deserve a cake and a pat on the back for trying to do something good for rattie kind (and other poor farm bred pets).

it not only shows that it is possible for shops to do this but that there are responsible pet shop owners out there like i've ALWAYS argued there are to any naysayers on here P to you all, again, you know who you are :lol.

good luck with it is there a website? i've not read the whole thread so sorry if you've already posted it.


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

owieprone said:


> great idea for a shop superfly. well done you for doing something like this, you deserve a cake and a pat on the back for trying to do something good for rattie kind (and other poor farm bred pets).
> 
> it not only shows that it is possible for shops to do this but that there are responsible pet shop owners out there like i've ALWAYS argued there are to any naysayers on here P to you all, again, you know who you are :lol.
> 
> good luck with it is there a website? i've not read the whole thread so sorry if you've already posted it.


hello yes, sorry websites in my signiture, if you fancy having a browse.  things again for kind words


----------



## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Generally speaking I am against the sale of live animals in pet shops - period - although I am a bit "on the fence" when it comes to your venture.

Let me explain - please don't be offended, it really isn't anything personal. 

My main objection to buying animals in pet shops:

1) Almost all pet shops source their stock from mass breeding farms, some from the local byb's. (I don't mean the nice, responsible hobby breeders - I mean any idiot who thinks putting amale and female together is fun and / or profitable)

2) As a customer in a pet shop I have no way of knowing for certain where the animals are bred. Many pet shops claim the animals come from "licenced" or "local" breeders - terms which are often used to hide the fact they are from puppy / small animal farms. Unless I visit the breeding premises in person I can not trust I am not supporting an extremely irresponsible, abusive industry.

3) Keeping live animals in a shop encourages impulse buying, which is a serious problem that frequently leads to animals being neglected, surrendered to rescues, sold on, etc when the owner gets bored, decided the animal is too expensive, too much work or whatever. I do not believe having cute baby animals on sale like merchandise is ethical for this reason.

4) There are so many animals already looking for homes - not just dogs and cats - that I can not condone any breeding being carried out for profit, or purely for fun. Fair enough if people are very "into" their particular breed / species and are veritable experts, breeding to improve health and temperament. But breeding just to fulfil a demand when many others remain homeless is not something I find easy to come to terms with.

As for your shop specifically:

1) I think it is great that you wanted to be different and breed your own rather than sourcing from (and thus funding / supporting) the abusive breeding mills.

2) I think it is good that say your breeders are experienced hobby breeders, that will provide the best care and advice, won't sell to anyone with the cash, handle litters from birth etc. All very good in itself.

3) I would have no problem recommended you as a breeder - but I still would not recommend buying animals from your pet shop. Does that even make sense?

4) Whilst it's great that you will vet potential new owners, the risk of impulse buyers is still very high.

5) It still does nothing to ease the situation of all those animals already "in the system". My personal belief is that it would be most ethical to direct customers to their nearest rescue. This is partisularly true for the larger species like rabbits and guinea pigs - there are hundreds, if not thousands, in rescue every year - not counting all those that get privately rehomed. I don't think it is particularly ethical to breed either of these to meet local demand, when your customers could pick from any of the dozens of homeless ones in their local rescue.

I hope this makes sense and does not offend - I really like what you are trying to do in principle, and do not doubt your intentions or how much you care about th animals you breed and sell. But that said, persoanlly I still can not justify stocking live animals in a shop and flogging them as merchandise.


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

Hello thanks for the input, i do agree, i think the way you have put it is the same view many people have but either go off on the wrong foot about it or just throw abuse. 

I do actually agree with you, i still although owning one dont like animals to be kept in shops, as mentioned before im hoping by doing this i can gain a little control at least, theres atleast 15 people since ive been open that once i explained where most animals come from were either shocked are disturbed by it, or said they would not use the worst local culprits again. I have had a lot of people mention (who already have animals) of behavoural problems and generally the cause is where they got them from. 

Im trying to put off inpulse buys as best i can, at the moment i have 3 g'pig males, the syrians, about 4 winter white females and 4 males, im not in no rush to restock on rabbits, rats ect, in my opinion if someone wants them that bad, once i mention they are still babies and they can reserve, i should only be left with the best owners. 

its been a huge risk for me, especially using my own fancy rat lines in the shop. 

as you said most shops who say they get their animals from breeders are basicly sourcing from byb as no real decent breeder would ever need to (or want to) sell to a petshop. I've known my rabbit and guinea breeder for a while, it took me a while for him to trust me to sell he's giant continentals. My argument was atleast unlike [email protected] i will be very blunt with thats involed in the their care and their costs to maintain (and their eventual size)

i guess the underline is, i want to push away from the word petshop and educate educate educate, the sameful thing is sometimes you still have to do things the normal way in order to survive. If i didnt advertise on google as a petshop, i wouldnt get any traffic what so ever. 

i guess my silly little fantasy would be, this taking off, and me being able to replace the petshops in the area that sell live animals and gain that control over their selling. 

This whole easter bunny thing has got me, a guy who owns a petshop in Sussex who i first went to for advice on what products to stock has told me he's buying in 43 rabbits for the easter period, im not rushing my breeder and chances are he wont have any rabbits until after easter sunday,


----------



## Nicole123 (Dec 21, 2009)

Would just like to say I've visited this your shop on numerous occasions (I'm the hedgehog lady that you ordered the wheel for, by the way my hedgepig loves it ) and I think your shop is the perfect example of a friendly helpful caring pet shop. There are too many pet shops these day's that only care about the cash and not the welfare of their animals so it's lovely and refreshing to see a pet shop where the staff put the animals and their welfare first and foremost. 

Just to add if anyone's in essex this shop is well worth a look in


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

thanks nicole, im glad they liked it, didnt realise the silent spinner (the big one) was that big, im half tempted to get some for the boys 

ill have to learn more about them, will have a read up on google later, 

been trying to fix the website, feel free to post some pics on the Berrywoods forum of them, i've added an exotics section for the extra strange and wonderful

oo and for your reptiles, well have some bugs in next week, im not great with them..going to get sherri to sort them out...


----------



## Nicole123 (Dec 21, 2009)

Berrywoods said:


> thanks nicole, im glad they liked it, didnt realise the silent spinner (the big one) was that big, im half tempted to get some for the boys
> 
> ill have to learn more about them, will have a read up on google later,
> 
> ...


The hogs love their wheels  from 10pm till daylight they are either running or chomping lol I'm just so glad that the silent spinners keep to their word on being silent haha. Ah shall have to post a few pictures of the hoggies up 

Brill about the bugs I'm constantly running out of something, I think the animals get a better diet then me LOL  shall have to pop in


----------



## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Glad I didn't offend! If I'm ever in the area I will try to pop in, although I'm no longer that side of London.


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

Colette said:


> Glad I didn't offend! If I'm ever in the area I will try to pop in, although I'm no longer that side of London.


 i was only offended when certain people on another forum compared me to pets at home...


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

I love the idea of being able to get small animals from a pet shop who responsibly breeds their own. It is hard (or at least in Scotland) to get some of the rodents as pets and the few places that do have them are rarely able to correctly advise in their up keep or show any interest in the well being of the animals. The one pet shop that I have come across I did buy some mice from because I was really worried about how unhealthy they looked (even more so when I counted that there were 15 mice in a 12 by 6 inch plastic tub.) Having the opportunity to buy pets from a shop such as yours would be brilliant, and only in an ideal world would we be in the situation that pets can only be obtained from breeders to prevent impulse buys and ensure that (in most cases) the animals go to homes that will actually care for their animals - which is something that you are already trying to do from what you have said


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

well im happy as things look promicing, we dont have many animals in the shop, at the moment a few syrians, winter white hammies and 2 male guineas, but people are still putting names down for the next litters,  the system works


----------



## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

Berrywoods said:


> i was only offended when certain people on another forum compared me to pets at home...


trouble is pets at home have given pet shops a bad name and its about time they started getting a good name


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

went to visit breeder of g'pigs and rabbits today, have brought back 2 wonderful giant rabbits, and a mixed selection of smaller ones from 3 of his litters, will have to snap some pictures, they are stunning, still babies but love the cuddles


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

smudge2009 said:


> trouble is pets at home have given pet shops a bad name and its about time they started getting a good name


i agree, there a lot of smaller ones just as bad, the amount of people ive had in who say "ive bought hamsters from [email protected] and few days later it had babies"

do these places (being the many many £££ of money pets at home make) not give their staff lessons on sexing animals. i sex mine shortly after birth so when i sex them again later i can compare to make sure it was correct.

I hear sqeaks from the gerbilanium  i guess my little girl has had her babies,

Oh, (Edit) everyone on this forum has been so nice, what people have been saying really does mean a lot to both me and sherri, you know times when sometimes although you think what your doing is right, when people dont agree it kind of puts you off, people here have made us feel a whole lot better, I want to show my gratitude by offering a voucher code for our webshop for 10% off, if you use petforum142 as code, (dont actually know where you enter it)

if your a crazy animal person like we are and generally buy things in bulk drop us an email and we can do big big bags of food or bedding and get it deliverd.

thanks guys


----------



## raynes mom (Apr 10, 2010)

I think it's wonderful that you are breeding your own animals and that you quiz potential parents and if they don't pass they don't get the companion. The way that you are doing things makes people actually learn about the pet before they buy it, therefore knowing better how to care of it. I say great job. Don't lose heart.


----------



## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I think its great for a pet shop to at least know the history of its stock or the breeder personally, for u to actually be breeding is taking it a step further. 

do u actually have the animals fully on display? if so from what age? 

I think a name change like small animal specialist would instantly make me feel calm and not agrrr another feking pet shop selling animals. 

do u have leaflets on each different type of animal you sell. 

I would draw the line at rabbits tho tbh, there are so many pet shop rabbit who develop genetic problems and that are clogging up the rescue centres. Maybe you could have a statement advertising why you dont breed/sell them and then a few pics of the ones at a local rescue centres, a contact number the minimum standards they require a rough cost guide.  i know its asking a lot


----------



## Berrywoods (Mar 25, 2010)

emzybabe said:


> I think its great for a pet shop to at least know the history of its stock or the breeder personally, for u to actually be breeding is taking it a step further.
> 
> do u actually have the animals fully on display? if so from what age?
> 
> ...


Hello, yes that was what i wanted people to feel when i put breeding specialists, i didnt want to be a petshop from the start, my aims from my business plan (and my own ethics) were to be a shop selling animal suppliers first and animals second, and the animals to be not a profit maker, and us to survive financally without the animals, and its proven to work as at the moment theres certain animals that have not had huge litters and ones that either are not ready or i have been unable to breed before what we had had been homed. I also wanted animals we breed to be sold before they are even ready, and with the rats this time round its worked, We had a litter of 11 babies and all babies have been reserved and they are not due to leave for another week and a half which is fantastic.

With the rabbits ive been getting mine from a friend of mine who has been breeding rabbits for many years, she has her own caresheet that i give with her rabbits and she wants me to give people her phone number if there is any problems, Ive grown very attached to the rabbits and i vowed to promice my friend everyone i sold one too was well aware of what they are taking on.


----------

