# Tips for studding out my GSD...



## Jerry Lee (Jun 12, 2012)

Hey guys,

First post! I have a seven year old Kennel Club registered German Shepherd Dog in the prime of his health, and would like to stud him out with a view to having the pick of the litter. I have no idea where to begin with such a journey, so was wondering if someone could enlighten me to the process(es) involved, step-by-step?

As I understand it so far; I need to have my dog's hip score done, as well as an eye and fertility test, to ensure he is suitable for breeding. Are any other tests required?

One thing I'm particularly confused about, is the breeding contract / agreement that I will need to write up, so any tips / pointers there would be most appreciated.

I do have a few specific questions, however...

* Are the dog and bitch required to meet before mating, to see if they have chemistry?

* Where should the mating take place? E.g., on neutral ground, house of dog / bitch, etc.

* Is the owner of the bitch required to pay a studding fee immediately after mating, or after conception has been proved?

* What is the average studding fee for a German Shepherd Dog?

* Is it fair to ask for the pick of the litter as well as 50% of the price of each puppy sold, minus puppy expenses?

* How do you ensure you are not being conned?

JL.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Jerry Lee said:


> * Is it fair to ask for the pick of the litter as well as 50% of the price of each puppy sold, minus puppy expenses?
> 
> * How do you ensure you are not being conned?
> 
> JL.


Is this a p*ss take  I do hope so, but just in case 

Why should a bitch owner who has invested somewhere in the region of £1,500 to £2,000 in their bitch to get her into whelp be willing to then hand over half of the price of each puppy sold for a litter sired by a maiden veteran dog? 

Why on earth would you want to put him through the risks of an anaesthetic for heath-testing and use at stud a dog entering his dotage when he should be putting his feet up 

Bitch owners chose stud dogs, and even pet owners have their choice of top dogs, dogs that are worked and / or shown, or excel in some other dog related activity - why would someone want to use your boy over and above those dogs?

Contrary to popular belief, it's bl**dy hard work standing a dog at stud and in relatively numerically large breeds such as GSD's - bitch owners will have the pick of the crop.

Enjoy your boy for what he is, a much loved family pet; if you want another one like him, go back to his breeder and get a dog from the same / similar lines.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

He`s too old dear. 
Save up for a pup like everyone else.


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm afraid I wouldn't look once let alone twice at an unproven 7 year old. Also, I think you would be expecting far too much return on such a dog. Even champs don't get a stud fee plus half the litter money after expenses. I think you're seeing your boy as a money pot instead of a much loved pet.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Jerry Lee said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> First post! I have a seven year old Kennel Club registered German Shepherd Dog in the prime of his health, and would like to stud him out with a view to having the pick of the litter. I have no idea where to begin with such a journey, so was wondering if someone could enlighten me to the process(es) involved, step-by-step?
> 
> ...


You can stud your dog out as much as you like but remember it is the owner of the bitch that will determine whether or not he is used.

No reputable GSD breeder is going to use a dog which has not been:

Hip scored with a result of a single figure total
Elbow scored with a result of zero
Blood tested for HAemophilia free
Eyes tested as "unaffected" by HC
tested for temperament
successful in the show ring or working arena

As the world is hardly short of GSDs, I would not bother wasting the money involved in all of the above as you are unlikely to receive any takers.

If you like your current GSD go back to his breeder.


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## tra23dog (Mar 1, 2012)

I would enjoy your boy as a pet! He is too old to start now - a stud dog has to learn his craft from a relatively young age. There are many GSD stud dogs that are shown or worked and you may not get anyone coming to use your boy. Also many people don't realise that to offer your dog at stud, you should have experience in breeding and ideally you should have bred a couple of litters, as many of the Bitch owners will choose to come to you for advice on pregnancy and whelping. You also need to know about Bitches and seasons and how to tell if they are ready for mating. You need to know about premate test results as often the bitch owner will phone up and tell you a number - you need to know what that number means. The visiting Bitch owner often relies on you to tell them when the Bitch is ready for mating and they want a good mating and a tie and a litter of puppies from that mating. Stud work can be very hard work physically and mentally! I have nearly cracked a rib holding onto a tied Bitch that went beserk. It isn't a case of leave a dog and a Bitch alone to get on with it. As mentioned before, a Bitch can panic and struggle when she is tied and damage can be done to the dog and the Bitch if you do not know what you are doing. I would castrate your boy and buy a pup in from his lines.


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## Jerry Lee (Jun 12, 2012)

My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline and the opportunity for him to be a father. He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.

Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?

JL.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline and the opportunity for him to be a father. He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


Let us put it this way it is not how much the cost of your stud fee is, it is what the quality (if any) of the dog is, what (if anything) he can bring to my bitch and if I had a litter I would need customers.

Are these customers going to want a puppy from a dog that has no health checks, no show results, no working results?

I very much doubt it.

As I said before, if you like his lines so much, go back to the original breeder or, if they are no longer breeding, someone who has similar lines.

What are his lines anyway?

Are the West German Show Lines?
West German Working Lines?
East European Working Lines?
English Alsation type?


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline *and the opportunity for him to be a father. *He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


I'm sure you mean well, but I'm not sure that male dogs need to experience being a father...? I totally understand that you want a pup because you love your boy and would love a dog from his bloodlines, but I think as others have suggested, you might be better returning to his breeder and going down that route.

In order to get a lovely, healthy pup with a great temperament, you would need a fab female GSD and from the sounds of it, the 'top' bitches' owners will look to very experienced owners of proven stud dogs and/or champions.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline and the opportunity for him to be a father. He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


In a word - no. Mating a maiden bitch (from owners who just want a puppy from their bitch) to an unproved 7 year old dog (whose owners just want a puppy from their dog) is frought with so many health and welfare issues I don't know where to start. This is breeding for all the wrong reasons.

A much better idea would be to go back to the breeder of your dog and buy a pup from the same lines.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline and the opportunity for him to be a father. He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


No, you should allow your boy to live out the rest of his days as a much loved family pet.

As has been said by a number of us, if you want a pup from his bloodlines, go back to his breeder.

You have to place your dog under the risk of facing an unnecessary anaesthetic for him to be hip and elbow scored - where dogs can (and have) died. You will also need to eye test him and I believe there are some DNA tests required for the breed - in addition to the risks you are placing him under having the tests done, you won't get much change from £500 - and if he fails at any test, then that's the end before you go any further.

=====================

With regards to the bitch, you don't and can't do anything - if you do, you will be looking at "bargain basement bitches" - probably from poor breeding and with little if no health tests done.

Very few bitch owners (even pet owners) are unlikely to be willing to consider using an unproven veteran - it can be hard enough raising the profile of a well bred health-tested dog unless the breeder is well established or the dog has achieved something spectacular with his progeny - and even then, actually, the general advice is, where possible, if you like the dog, go back to their sire.

===================

I am intrigued at your comment



Jerry Lee said:


> and the opportunity for him to be a father.


Opportunity for a sh&g is what you actually mean, because that's pretty much all it will be to him with no concept of what he has done or why he is doing it - the owners might celebrate if a dog produces a nice litter, but the dog won't be taking his mates down the pub to wet the babies heads - he won't have any concept that he's a father. Any other additional support and hard work comes from the bitch, the bitch owner and the stud dog owner if they are responsible and supportive.


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## Paganman (Jul 29, 2011)

I would lol but I can't


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

I have a very good tip for you


DONT


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> In order to get a lovely, healthy pup with a great temperament, you would need a fab female GSD and from the sounds of it, the 'top' bitches' owners will look to very experienced owners of proven stud dogs and/or champions.
> [/SIZE]


There will be well bred fab pet brood bitches around owned by responsible breeders as well, but equally, they will also have the "pick of the crop" in terms of stud dogs.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline and the opportunity for him to be a father. He is very healthy and fit and I would like to give him a chance. Please forgive my ignorance about the monetary details -- if it yields little or no money after the expenses from the puppies, then it does not matter to me. In my defence, I did ask whether or not it was fair, as I do not know how these things work.
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


Is there any reason you want a pup from him, if you can research and find a pup from his lines, would that be acceptable?

I did a thread about breeding from my bitch, unfortunately there are so many controversial issues surrounding breeding, the thread was pulled. I can tell you it's cost me over £2k to take one litter, and keep one bitch pup back for me, I could have bought a pup in for less that's for sure.

Would I change it, no, but it's not something I would ever do lightly, and that goes more than double for a dog, I really do wish you all the best for your search, but please do consider buying in from the same lines as your dog, it certainly is not a second best compromise and after going through the difficulties with this one litter, it is something I will always bear in mind with a serious head on!!!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Poor boy - sex just the once then never again in his life  he knows what it's like but that's it mate, once is enough. As a bloke you should understand that!


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

I bred my girl and kept a pup. They are like chalk and cheese! To breed and get pup 'just like him/her' is frankly quite unrealistic on many levels


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I bred my girl and kept a pup. They are like chalk and cheese! To breed and get pup 'just like him/her' is frankly quite unrealistic on many levels


You are not wrong there - I've had a mother, two daughters and a grand-daughter - the eldest girl is like her mum - but the other two - I don't know where they came from


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Jerry Lee said:


> My apologies -- I believe I have used the wrong terminology. I do not want to create a business out of my dog, so to have used the word "stud" or "studding" was incorrect of me. I simply want a puppy from his bloodline ........
> 
> Should I be looking to find someone who wants the same for their German Shepherd bitch?
> 
> JL.


No, you should be looking at his bloodline and finding breeders who have dogs from it!


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

can only agree with the above posts and actually find it difficult to believe it's 'real'...

not looking for money? yet asking for an up front stud fee, pick of the litter AND half the money from the other pups? to me this looks like an attempt to rake in the cash! 

aside from the expenses of health testing your dog - not worth it because no one would want to use him but don't forget the bitch will have had to have this done to, plus the costs of having pups... my Sophie (GSD) ate me out of house and home and just imagine how much food a litter of 6 - 8 week old pups get through... it's a very expensive business and the owner of the bitch has all the expenses (except dog's health tests) to bear - vet bills, possible c-section, staying home for 9 weeks etc etc... 'normally' there is a stud fee payable only - variable but say £400 - if you wanted a puppy in return this may be seen as a 'deposit' and you'd have to pay extra to have a pup... 

some breeds the stud fee and the puppy fee is about the same so stud dog owners may be able to suggest a puppy, but I for one wouldn't give you 'pick of the litter' as it would be heartbreaking to go through the trauma and drama of raising a litter only to find the stud dog owner wanting the pup the breeder has fallen for - I've only vaguely discussed it once but was very clear the stud dog owner would be offered choice of pups after I'd had my 'pick'. In the event I chose a 'better' (for my bitch) dog.


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

Go back to the breeder of your boy and see if they have pups from similar lines, or know of somebody with similar lines. Your boy is too old to use at stud, by the time you've paid for all the health tests etc. it would probably work out cheaper and a lot less stress than trying to find somebody who would be prepared to let you use your unproven dog on their bitch.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Many pet owners think like you: I have an entire boy, nice dog, I'll stud him out, get a puppy from him or make a few bob. They don't think about the risks and the consequences involved.

I have never bred anything, but I have read that it changes the dog's personality, sometimes greatly. Do you want that? I also have to agree that it is hardly fair to let him have sex once and never again. What he doesn't know he won't miss. It is also highly unlikely that a pup from your dog will resemble him in any way, shape or form.

I know someone with the most beautiful long haired GSD bitch, so beautiful she decided to have puppies from her. Not a single one was anything like her, not nearly as pretty or nice temperament.

It is an expensive business and not an easy way to get another puppy.

As to asking pick of the litter and half the selling price of the pups............well, I'm not quite sure what to say to that. Even the top champion dogs who command the highest stud fees do not get a share of the overall profit as well.


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## cazypetfood (Jul 20, 2011)

We breed german shepherds, the mai nadvice wewould give is:

Let your dogs mate naturally, when the male gets a whif of the female in heat, they will flirt about, bumping into each other, then play ete, after a while they will mate several times and eventually lock.

Don't force the male onto the female, or help "pop it in" so to speak as other breeders do. Let them do it naturally.


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## rhflan (May 30, 2012)

I wonder if the reason the OP doesn't just go back to the breeder where she got his dog is b/c it wasn't a reputable breeder?


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