# Patterdale puppy training and behavior



## Kimba (Oct 8, 2009)

About two weeks ago we adopted a dog from a rescue we under stand to be a Patterdale Terrier. 

We were initially looking for a Jack Russell Terrier to adopt, but when we found "Kimba", who was porported to be a Patterdale Terrier, we fell in love with her. Even after reading up on the breed and understanding that she would be a big challenge, we thought we were up to it (I consider myself half terrier, LOL -- as I'm as stubborn and "full of personality").

She's a really great dog -- very loving and well behaved. I take her on morning jogs through the redwood forest accross the street, and she heels like it's bred into her. She's responding well to the basic training we're giving her to come when called, potty training (esp. with crate training), etc. 

However, we can't be 100% sure that she really is a Patterdale, though all of the research I've done is positive; for example, she seems to fit the UKC's judging description to a tee (though our vet had never heard of the breed and "patted us on the head" suggesting Kimba is a lab/pit bull mix -- but she is way to small for that!). I really think she probably is a Patterdale. 

There's just one thing: From what I've read, Patterdales should rather be "aloof" about other dogs. Kimba is 14 weeks old and is very excited to meet and play with other dogs. The deeper problem is that we discovered tonight when we took her to the first session of a "Puppy Manners" class, she goes from sniff sniff "how are you?" to jumping, licking and nipping pretty quicking, and very quickly gets so excited that the encounter starts to get aggressive, and she's giving NO quarter on that!

The trainer spent an extra half hour on us and didn't raise our hopes at all that she might ever be able to be off leash around other dogs. She recommended (rather like if we are going to bring her back to the class) a "gentle leader" -- which is rather a muzzel to attach a leach to in place of the harness we've been using.

What I'm wondering is: how much of this could just be exuberant Patterdale puppy behavior? Is she really as incorrible as as the trainer thinks (the trainer also assumed she was a lab/pit bull mix)? And is the trait of Patterdales that they should rather be aloof around other dogs something that comes after puppyhood?


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi
Well done on rescuing a patt!
As you can see I am a Patt owner/lover 
If you could post a picture of her i could give you an answer, as patts vary in shape, sizes and coats.
You get long legged patts which are usually lakeland/border/bedlington
you get short legged patts which are usually staffy/jrt etc.
A Patterdale is like the lurcher of the terrier world. Literally no two are the same! you get 3 different coats. Smooth - short coat, with a smooth texture - Broken coated (like my patt) which is wiry but short hair, and then long/rough/wire, whatever you want to call it coat, which is thick wiry and coarse. 

As for a Patterdale's personality this can vary too. Depending on lineage and past of the dog. My Patterdale is a hard worker, very professional. But is an absolotue sweetheart, the most biddable thing you'll ever probably meet. Although Patterdale's are known to be headstrong and to have an attitude. Like any terrier  Great family dogs. Are good with children, and if introduced correctly with other household pets, such as, cats, rabbits, hamsters 
They are very game, which means into their hunting. So recall must be very good. Practice it in your garden or on a long lead. Although as you mentioned you won't be working her. 

As for the "aloofness" with other dogs. Tosh!!! Patterdales are used to and bred to work in small packs of dogs. So are usually (providing correct socialisation, as with any dog) very good with others. They can be overly-playful/dominant, but should never be agressive. Be firm but fair with her. Is she 14 weeks or 14 months you have two different ages in two threads?  If 14 weeks, the nipping can be easily trained out, when greeting another dog, do not let her immediatly jump up to it, and be excitable. Stand a few feet away, so the other dog is out of reach. If she knows the command "sit" ask her to sit down, when she does feed her a treat. Her focus should be on you, not getting overly excited about the other dog. When she is calm (preferably lying down) then give the okay she can sniff the other dog. This teaches her to give a calm approach to other dogs. If she pulls and pants and whines in excitement when you are standing there. Just a quick tug (not too hard) on the leash, and re-affirm your sit, pushing her bum down if neccesary. Do not strain at the lead, just one tug should be enough, and also none of the "stop Kimab!!" As this could escalate her excitment as you are talking. Practice with a friend if you can, or in the garden on her obedience skills. Do not ever tap the dog on the nose when greeting other dogs etc. As this could make her associate other dogs with a tap, and this wouldn't be good. Do not tolerate any sort of bad behaviour Patts are known for give an inch take a mile , yet try to use positive methods of training her. Patterdales are very intelligent and pick things up easily, so training should not be too difficult. 

It is good to hear you go jogging with her, and that she behaves on a lead, as this is good foundation blocks to start with. They are also very good at agility, so maybe try give that a go? 

Just remember Firm but fair.

I have really just skimmed over the top of things. If you want any more help. contact me


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## Kimba (Oct 8, 2009)

Joy and happiness! Thank you @patterdale_lover 

My name is Sean (I'm Irish-American, so I always thought I can be as "terrier" as any terrier, LOL!). I used Kimba as my name here as she's whom I'm representing (and didn't want this mixed up with my professional online identity).

I was so hoping to meet someone like you here!

Kimba is 14 week old.

From the photos and videos I posted in response to my introduction post, you'll see that Kimba is a short, smooth coat black variety with a bit of white on her sternum, neck, chin and back toes. As so many folks are skeptical about some breed they've never heard of, I have created a flier I keep in the little potty cleanup pack attached to her leash to help educate them on the breed: http://www.sitesbysean.com/facebook/Patterdale-flyer.pdf

I've reached the end of my own leash tonight. I'll be back with more tomorrow.

Thank you for your very thoughtful and rich response.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi, 
Just looked at your intro thread and saw the vid/pics
I'm afraid to say she is not a patterdale 
For 14 weeks she is way to big. The head shape is not that of a patterdale, her tail is too thin, and doesn't stand up at all, like a terriers. Her ears are also that of maybe a pittbull. I would say your vet was right and that she is a Pit/lab.
Sorry to dissapoint. 
Lovely dog anyway


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## Kimba (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks, Patterdale Lover.

You would certainly know better than I would, as I had never heard of Patterdales until the rescue said that's what she was (but then they originally labled her as a Pat/Chihuahua mix! NOT!).

She seemed to me to rather fit the breed description, behavior and some Pat puppy photos I had found online, but I definitely see your points and more and more evidence seems to point to a Lab/Staffordshire or Pit (more likely the latter as they are probably more likely to show up in a shelter or rescue).

Have to admit my wife and I were really intrieged with the Patterdale breed (I hope we can find one to adopt in a couple years) and were kinda freaked out to start to realize that she's most likely a Pit Bull mix (makes a lotta sense though as Pits are everywhere up here in Nor. Cal. as most of the pot growers all up in here own Pits and have a tendancy to be really irresponsible in many ways).

I definitely love Terriers in general -- I really do like their fiesty, stubborn personalities; Labs are ok too if they have half a brain.

Well, thinking Kimba was a Patterdale definitely had me perpared to deal with a challenging breed that would need lots of mental & physical exercise and training . . . so I guess now we just have a different kind of dog that needs exatly the same attention.

I'm just a bit concerned about excitement escalating to aggression with other dogs so far. I've never seen her start the agression, but she damn well thinks she's gona finish it! First sign of aggression from another dog -- growling, "get off me!" or a bite, and she gives it right back. She doesn't even come close to submitting, not yet anyways.

But otherwise she seems to really enjoy meeting other people and other dogs. She's an abolute lover with people (most esp. kids) and people seem to be really attracted to her. I'll just keep introducing her to more dogs as we visit the local pet store, go jogging/walking/hiking, and at puppy manners class (which I expect we'll have to do a few rounds of).

It seems a lot of folks are really into Lab/Pit mixes and swear they are great dogs. With proper training and treatment, I think Kimba promisses to be an excellent dog too -- just not sure if I'll ever be able to let her off leash with other dogs. We'll see.

-- Sean


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Kimba said:


> Thanks, Patterdale Lover.
> 
> You would certainly know better than I would, as I had never heard of Patterdales until the rescue said that's what she was (but then they originally labled her as a Pat/Chihuahua mix! NOT!).
> 
> ...


I am glad your being positive about it all! Some people would have a hissy fit and give up! ut: Well done to you! 
Haha labs don't have ahalf a brain  I have two working gundog labs, very well trained and clever. It's the owner, always remember that


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## Kimba (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks, Patterdale Lover.

In case anyone else stumbles upon this thread, I'd like to say that while I was very excited to have learned about Patterdales and thought Kimba was one (and hope to rescue/adopt a Patterdale in a couple of years from now), I've been very encouraged by our dog, Kimba.

Her first Puppy Manners class had the trainer counselling us that she just might not ever be able to be off leash and play nice. Tonight was our second class -- one week, over 20 meetings with other dogs, lots of other positive reinforcement training, and a whole lotta love and SHAZAM! Her behavior is now completely different. The aggession has faded completely and now she plays with all other dogs just as puppies should do. My gosh, she's even gone completely mellow with our cats!

I found a lot of folks on a lot of forums, and met in person and even now know a few friends how have/have had lab/pit mixes and they are swear that they are great dogs.


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