# Clicker in the ring?



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Basically what the title asks really. Can you use a clicker whilst in the ring?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Basically what the title asks really. Can you use a clicker whilst in the ring?


Which ring are you talking about, breed, obedience, rally, HWTM?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Which ring are you talking about, breed, obedience, rally, HWTM?


Sorry. Breed ring.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

In my experience No, not fair on other dogs in the ring with you that are also clicker responsive. If your dog is clicker trained could you imagine how you would feel if someone in the breed ring with you and stood behind you was using a clicker ?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sorry. Breed ring.


There is no specific rule, but IME (as a clicker trainer and someone who has exhibited at championship shows including Crufts) it is entirely unecessary.

It may also pee other exhibitors (and the judge) off.

Never seen the need to use it in the breed ring myself.

Just use a word instead to mark the behaviour.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Ah ok, thanks. I've just found that Cash generally responds well with all four paws remaining on the floor if I click and treat as I'm running. If I use a simple 'yes' or 'good boy' instead, he still tends to jump. I have our first show coming up next Sunday and I'm a bit nervous about the whole prospect I must admit.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Ah ok, thanks. I've just found that Cash generally responds well with all four paws remaining on the floor if I click and treat as I'm running. If I use a simple 'yes' or 'good boy' instead, he still tends to jump. I have our first show coming up next Sunday and I'm a bit nervous about the whole prospect I must admit.


But if you are running, why would you click and treat?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> But if you are running, why would you click and treat?


To teach him that I want his feet remaining on the floor and his mouth off my arm 

Loads of people treat/reward in the ring, no?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> To teach him that I want his feet remaining on the floor and his mouth off my arm
> 
> Loads of people treat/reward in the ring, no?


Not, IME, when they are running with the dog!

When you are stacking/standing the dog yes,

I am trying to imagine running with a dog holding the lead in one hand and feeding treats with the other whilst keeping an eye on the other exhibitors, their dogs and the judge and steward...............................


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Not, IME, when they are running with the dog!
> 
> When you are stacking/standing the dog yes,
> 
> I am trying to imagine running with a dog holding the lead in one hand and feeding treats with the other whilst keeping an eye on the other exhibitors, their dogs and the judge and steward...............................


I've not been told it's 'wrong' by our ringcraft trainer who has judged and exhibited dogs herself.

The other dogs stand in line around the ring so not sure why I'd need to be watching them while running around....as long as I have enough space to run etc. I don't actually treat but use it as a lure more than anything. So no constant feeding him titbits, dropping them on the floor etc. But yes, it can admittedly make it a bit clumsy in my hands. I also use them while having the judge handle him.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> I've not been told it's 'wrong' by our ringcraft trainer who has judged and exhibited dogs herself.
> 
> The other dogs stand in line around the ring so not sure why I'd need to be watching them while running around....as long as I have enough space to run etc. I don't actually treat but use it as a lure more than anything. So no constant feeding him titbits, dropping them on the floor etc. But yes, it can admittedly make it a bit clumsy in my hands. I also use them while having the judge handle him.


The dogs are not all perfect.

The handlers often do not pay attention as they stand their gassing (depending on the size of the class etc) and the rings are not always the best size, therefore many of us who have been exhibiting for a number of years tend to keep an eye out when we move the dogs around the ring, in a triangle and up and down just in case.

I have never found the need to use a lure when running my dog in the ring, but I do use it to encourage the dog to maintain position when stacked, I have rarely used food whilst the dog is being gone over myself, especially when the judge is at the front end..............


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> The dogs are not all perfect.
> 
> The handlers often do not pay attention as they stand their gassing (depending on the size of the class etc) and the rings are not always the best size, therefore many of us who have been exhibiting for a number of years tend to keep an eye out when we move the dogs around the ring, in a triangle and up and down just in case.
> 
> I have never found the need to use a lure when running my dog in the ring, but I do use it to encourage the dog to maintain position when stacked, I have rarely used food whilst the dog is being gone over myself, especially when the judge is at the front end..............


Well I'm a complete newbie to all this, and so is Cash, so we have alot to learn. He's still in training and I can't really expect anymore of him at this stage although ideally of course I will be able to run him without any lure. But hopefully that will come in time. He's still very puppy like in his behaviour.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2014)

In the US clickers are allowed in the breed ring, but its annoying as hell, especially when exhibitors use them as attention getters instead of actual reward markers. 

I dont know what its like there, but here judges tend to be very tolerant of a young dog being silly (as long as its not dangerous) and would much rather see a dog being bouncy and playing with the handler than looking dull and uninterested in the whole thing.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Depends, on the class.

Judges are very tolerant in minor puppy, puppy but tend to not be so in Junior or Special Yearling for example (unless the entries are from those who are still eligible for minor puppy or puppy, they expect dogs (and handlers) to have undergone the necessary ringcraft training.

There have been complaints in the dog press here re clickers in the breed ring and for good reason.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Well I'm a complete newbie to all this, and so is Cash, so we have alot to learn. He's still in training and I can't really expect anymore of him at this stage although ideally of course I will be able to run him without any lure. But hopefully that will come in time. He's still very puppy like in his behaviour.


Bare in mind you all have to move together at some stage, also if you are moving him and dropping bait it's not going to go down well with people who have to move after you, baiting him while moving might also impede his natural movement too  If you have a small ring or even a big one you need to be aware where everyone is, easy to get lost if you aren't aware of what's going on round you! He is a puppy don't worry about being perfect, he'll get there in his time let him enjoy the ring as he might be doing it for a long time! Hate seeing puppies like computers in the ring..


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh I like to see him having fun, and he obviously is enjoying it with his bounciness. But if I attempt to run with him he leaps up and/or mouths my arm which stops us dead in our tracks anyway. I'm sure the judge would find that more frustrating than me simply luring him around. I agree about dropping treats though. That would not be good and I know I wouldn't be happy if I was behind someone who did so


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh I like to see him having fun, and he obviously is enjoying it with his bounciness. But if I attempt to run with him he leaps up and/or mouths my arm which stops us dead in our tracks anyway. I'm sure the judge would find that more frustrating than me simply luring him around. I agree about dropping treats though. That would not be good and I know I wouldn't be happy if I was behind someone who did so


If your dog is mouthing your arm when you run it sounds like you need to do a lot more training!

If he did that in the ring the judge may view him as being out of control and it could be viewed as of being of uncertain temperament.

I would call that more than "bounciness"!

Also, when a judge sees that you need to use food to control this behaviour it may ring more alarm bells.

Not to mention what other exhibitors will think!

Sounds as though he is not ready for the ring yet.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> If your dog is mouthing your arm when you run it sounds like you need to do a lot more training!
> 
> If he did that in the ring the judge may view him as being out of control and it could be viewed as of being of uncertain temperament.
> 
> ...


But yet everyone else tells me he is and that I have nothing to lose! His mouthing is purely play based/excitement when we start moving faster. A judge that can't tell the difference is perhaps not that great at 'judging' dogs after all? He was ragging the lead too, but using a chain lead has solved that problem.

Maybe I'll pack it up all together.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Dogloverlou said:


> But yet everyone else tells me he is and that I have nothing to lose! His mouthing is purely play based/excitement when we start moving faster. A judge that can't tell the difference is perhaps not that great at 'judging' dogs after all? He was ragging the lead too, but using a chain lead has solved that problem.
> 
> Maybe I'll pack it up all together.


Please don't do that. You may find he reacts totally differently at a show than he does at ringcraft. There will be loads of strange dogs all in close proximity to each other. Mine always act differently when we get to shows. Get there early and get him in the ring for a practise as long as the judge and steward are not in the ring you can go in and run him round it just to get the feel of the size. Remember at open shows though the rings are often quite small so you will need to keep an eye on were other people are standing.

Let him know you have the treat in your hand but try giving it to him at the end after the judge has seen him move and had a last look at him before returning to the line.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't know. I already had nerves and worry about the way Cash would act...and possibly show us both up. But I assumed that as he's still a puppy, and as he's still in training, these kind of things would be expected in some cases. I can't believe that every puppy that enters the ring is immaculately behaved? That said, if it is going to cause issues I simply won't turn up and will wait until next year and get lots more practice in.

I did plan on walking him beforehand...so he was more docile lol. But then you have to worry about him getting wet/dirty.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> But yet everyone else tells me he is and that I have nothing to lose! His mouthing is purely play based/excitement when we start moving faster. A judge that can't tell the difference is perhaps not that great at 'judging' dogs after all? He was ragging the lead too, but using a chain lead has solved that problem.
> 
> Maybe I'll pack it up all together.


Keep the bait in your hand, don't try to use the clicker, and just go, Cian still bounces round the ring at nearly 2 and I personally couldn't give a fiddler's, OH is the same. You find those that are all about the winning deem it "wrong" and those who enjoy showing and do it for fun say they enjoy seeing a dog having fun in the ring, and those people also include CC giving judges and the FCI judges love seeing it  they think our dogs (UK and Ireland) are rather boring in the ring! Cian mouthed the lead bounced and paced for his first year in the ring lol Cash is a puppy you are new to showing it is a learning experience for you both just go have fun and learn  even those dogs who have been showing for years world wide and International Champs still have giddy kipper moments


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If you think all puppies are impeccably behaved in the ring you need to come to a show with me and Phoenix. He is just coming up for 9 months and he can't stand still he will not walk properly he barks at the other dogs in the ring and at the last show we went to he for some reason best known only to him he took offence to the breed judge and decided not to let him anywere near him when he went over him or rather tried to and then every time the judge walked down the line up he hid behind me. 

Honestly my veteran is nearly 11 and I have recently decided that no matter how much she loves going she is retired but even she can have a silly day in the ring when she bounces like a pup and people ask if she is really nearly 11.

Don't worry about him getting wet or muddy before going into the ring every body is in the same boat if it is wet. Give him chance to dry off before going into the ring and give the muddy bits a quick brush to get rid of the dried mud and a quick wipe with baby wipes on any white bits that might show the dirt.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Dogloverlou said:


> But yet everyone else tells me he is and that I have nothing to lose! His mouthing is purely play based/excitement when we start moving faster. A judge that can't tell the difference is perhaps not that great at 'judging' dogs after all? He was ragging the lead too, but using a chain lead has solved that problem.
> 
> *Maybe I'll pack it up all together*.


No you mustn't do that.

Just go and enjoy the experience. Most young dogs can bounce and bite the lead or hand/arm whatever discipline they are doing - showing - obedience - agility - etc.

I shall never forget Twiggy in her first two or three novice obedience classes. Every left turn she jumped in front of me and bit me on the nose..

I've been doing agility for the past year with my nervous and sensitive little rescue and I love it that she is now so confident, she will take a flying chomp at my arm between the jumps in competition.

Don't worry and have fun with your dog.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

judges don't expect six month old puppies to be perfectly behaved


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Go next week and enjoy it  Its all about experience and learning :yesnod:


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Hopefully it will be a positive experience!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Judges will usually make some allowances for a puppy, but if he's jumping up and mouthing when on the move, the Judge won't really be able to assess his movement.

I wouldn't use bait when you're moving him out, again, if he's trying to look up at you or your hand, he won't be moving freely.

It does take most dogs a while to learn ringcraft and begin to take in all in their stride.

If he begins jumping up at you, try stopping, turning him round a full circle and then set off again.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Judges will usually make some allowances for a puppy, but if he's jumping up and mouthing when on the move, the Judge won't really be able to assess his movement.
> 
> I wouldn't use bait when you're moving him out, again, if he's trying to look up at you or your hand, he won't be moving freely.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's what I have been doing, but that can mean a few stops and starts on one run!

I continually tell him 'no' when he's leaping about too in training, but it's not really made a jot of difference.

I will however try withholding his treat. I know a couple of his siblings have shown the same behaviour too and actually there is a picture on their FB site of his brother holding on to his owner's jumper lol.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Yes, that's what I have been doing, but that can mean a few stops and starts on one run!
> 
> I continually tell him 'no' when he's leaping about too in training, but it's not really made a jot of difference.
> 
> I will however try withholding his treat. I know a couple of his siblings have shown the same behaviour too and actually there is a picture on their FB site of his brother holding on to his owner's jumper lol.


Stopping and starting is completely fine  Stop go back to the beginning! At Crufts last year the Judge sent OH & Cian back about 20 times ( okay slight exaggeration but it felt like it) coz he was sooooooo excited at all the green space he just galloped round hahaha he was 12 months lol


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