# Is this cat Siamese?



## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello,

I am aware that it's difficult to tell the breed of a cat just from pictures, but I am convinced that my baby Ragdoll MUST have some Siamese blood to look the way she does. She was born from a tabby mother and as you will be able to tell from the pictures has light blue eyes and a colour-point (I think that's what it's called?) coat. She is 6 months old. It seems incredible to me that she could be born from a tabby mother and a tabby father and still look EXACTLY like a Siamese cat. I would appreciate any response to this.









This is a picture of her mother, Lola.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I know nothing about breeding and colour variations from genetics, but I did want to say that she is really beautiful!


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## AngelEyes92 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm so sorry to sound stupid, but has this cat been sold to you as a ragdoll? 

I'm not an expert by any means, but she doesn't look ragdoll, and neither does her mum.. There are ragdoll breeders and owners on here though, as there are siamese owners/breeders, who will be able to help you in much more detail than i have here.

Just got a bit confused, sorry!


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

Aw thank you very much, I adore her and her mum!


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

AngelEyes92 said:


> I'm so sorry to sound stupid, but has this cat been sold to you as a ragdoll?
> 
> I'm not an expert by any means, but she doesn't look ragdoll, and neither does her mum.. There are ragdoll breeders and owners on here though, as there are siamese owners/breeders, who will be able to help you in much more detail than i have here.
> 
> Just got a bit confused, sorry!


No no, that's just her name! lol She wasn't sold to me, my cat is her mum. I called her Ragdoll because when she was younger she wasn't as dark and did indeed look like a Ragdoll cat!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

It isnt only siamese that come in those colours she looks seal tortie colourpoint to me,defo not ragdoll or siamese maybe bit of bsh in there but head doesnt look round enough.two tabbies could produce it iff they both carried cp gene.


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## AngelEyes92 (Jan 30, 2012)

XxSophie01xX said:


> No no, that's just her name! lol She wasn't sold to me, my cat is her mum. I called her Ragdoll because when she was younger she wasn't as dark and did indeed look like a Ragdoll cat!


Oh good, my stupidity is somewhat justified 

As I say though, I really have no clue about the genes behind the colourings, although another member will hopefully come along and be able to answer for you. x


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

To be colourpoint, the cat must carry two colourpoint genes.

This means mum had a colourpoint gene as did dad. As we know what colour mum is, the likelihood is that grandma or granddad on mum's side was a colourpoint cat too. 

I do not think she has Siamese type. She has more of a Burmese type.


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

Thank you for everyone's replies, I appreciate it! As I don't know much about cats, I just found it very odd that my cat produced a kitten so unlike herself or the kitten's dad. In my past experience of kittens they always looked in some way like their parents.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

What did the dad look like?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Wouldnt the dad have had to ginger for kitten to come out tortie


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

beautiful girl you have there!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Colourpoints do occur very occasionally in moggies - Messyhearts has explained the genetics  - but your kitty doesn't have Siamese shape at all.
She is very pretty though


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Wouldnt the dad have had to ginger for kitten to come out tortie


Yes, mum doesn't look tortie so dad had to be ginger to produce a tortie kitten.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I believe the OP said the dad is also a tabby.
Quote: It seems incredible to me that she could be born from a tabby mother and a tabby father and still look EXACTLY like a Siamese cat


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm pretty sure his is the daddy. They are half brother and sister too so it would make sense that the CP gene is somewhere in their family


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Well was he a ginger cat or its not possible,why were half brother and sister allowed to mate?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

*shudders* at the inbreeding. 

sweet cat though


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

XxSophie01xX said:


> I'm pretty sure his is the daddy. They are half brother and sister too so it would make sense that the CP gene is somewhere in their family


That does explain the gene being there as it is "rare" in moggies. They must share a common colourpointed ancestor.


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

spid said:


> *shudders* at the inbreeding.
> 
> sweet cat though


I was thinking that too!
Why would you let them breed, let alone inbreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
GET THEM DE-SEXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

XxSophie01xX said:


> I'm pretty sure his is the daddy. They are half brother and sister too so it would make sense that the CP gene is somewhere in their family


why on earth are you mating brother sister moggies when hundreds are in rescue? for god sake neuter your bloody pets!!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Think we are jumping to the conclusion that OP did anything more than buy a kitten here.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

she said she adored the kitten and kittens mum wouldnt that suggest she ownes mum


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

XxSophie01xX said:


> No no, that's just her name! lol She wasn't sold to me, my *cat is her mum.* I called her Ragdoll because when she was younger she wasn't as dark and did indeed look like a Ragdoll cat!





messyhearts said:


> Think we are jumping to the conclusion that OP did anything more than buy a kitten here.


Above she owns mum and bred to her half brother


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Ouch!!! Beautiful kitten, without a doubt, but a rather unseemly back story seems to be unravelling here


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Oh didn't read that bit....


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> born from a tabby mother and a tabby father


The tabby gene is dominant which means only one is needed for the cat to be tabby. Both mother and father must therefore have been heterozygous ie each had one tabby and one non tabby gene. Any kitten born from this mating has a one in four chance of being non tabby. This does NOT mean there will be three tabby kittens to each non tabby. The statistical percentages are the chances per kitten, not per litter of kittens.


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## Puindoors (May 19, 2011)

the kitten is tortie, as the mum isn't (from the photo) the sire must have been a red cat, can't genetically be otherwise. I'd suppose that as the OP isn't responsible enough to neuter her pets she is likely to have left the female go out in call and it mated with a red cp carrier or red cpt.

Many breeds carry forms of the cpt gene, from persian, siamese, burmese, tonkinese, ragdoll, birman, british, siberian etc.


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

I really don't appreciate this heckling of my character.
It was my decision to let my cat get pregnant, and all of the kittens were sent to good responsible people. And all this talk of inbreeding is ridiculous - if cats are in the wild, they more than likely mate with their brother/sister/dad/mum. Most cats are inbred and as far as I know, and certainly with regards to my kittens, it has never affected them in any way.

My cats are well looked after and very happy, and both are booked in to be spayed. I don't appreciate criticism and insults about something that I didn't ask to be commented on.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Sophie, if you post about a contentious issue on a public forum you can only expect people to give their honest and frank opinion which is what has happened now.

In the wild (I don't mean un-neutered cats living in a common area) cats will roam when they reach maturity so it's not fair to say most cats are inbred!

Aside from the inbreeding debate, presumably you don't deny there are thousands on unwanted cats already?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

XxSophie01xX said:


> I really don't appreciate this heckling of my character.
> It was my decision to let my cat get pregnant, and all of the kittens were sent to good responsible people. And all this talk of inbreeding is ridiculous - if cats are in the wild, they more than likely mate with their brother/sister/dad/mum. Most cats are inbred and as far as I know, and certainly with regards to my kittens, it has never affected them in any way.
> 
> My cats are well looked after and very happy, and both are booked in to be spayed. I don't appreciate criticism and insults about something that I didn't ask to be commented on.


People like this..:incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato:


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## XxSophie01xX (Jun 14, 2012)

Lel said:


> Sophie, if you post about a contentious issue on a public forum you can only expect people to give their honest and frank opinion which is what has happened now.
> 
> In the wild (I don't mean un-neutered cats living in a common area) cats will roam when they reach maturity so it's not fair to say most cats are inbred!
> 
> Aside from the inbreeding debate, presumably you don't deny there are thousands on unwanted cats already?


I don't deny that there are thousands of unwanted cats, but the people who got kittens of me I'm sure knew about that also, but chose to get a cat off me.

I posted asking about the breed of my cat, I didn't ask to get shot at for something that I don't even believe to be that much of a problem.

A lot of cats I know are inbred, and there's nothing wrong with them.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

You are missing the point. If you really don't understand the issues people have raised then I give up!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Most cats are inbred and as far as I know, and certainly with regards to my kittens, it has never affected them in any way


How many litters have you had? This comment implies a knowledge which requires a lot more than one 'accidental' litter. It also requires years of follow-up to be able to make such a sweeping statement.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

XxSophie01xX said:


> I really don't appreciate this heckling of my character.
> *It was my decision to let my cat get pregnant*, and all of the kittens were sent to good responsible people. And all this talk of inbreeding is ridiculous - if cats are in the wild, they more than likely mate with their brother/sister/dad/mum. Most cats are inbred and as far as I know, and certainly with regards to my kittens, it has never affected them in any way.
> 
> My cats are well looked after and very happy, and both are booked in to be spayed. I don't appreciate criticism and insults about something that I didn't ask to be commented on.


exactly with NO thought to what the cat wants, I very much doubt she Wanted a litter esp with her brother  :



XxSophie01xX said:


> I don't deny that there are thousands of unwanted cats, but the people who got kittens of me I'm sure knew about that also, but chose to get a cat off me.
> 
> I posted asking about the breed of my cat, I didn't ask to get shot at for something that I don't even believe to be that much of a problem.
> 
> A lot of cats I know are inbred, and there's nothing wrong with them.


And how do you know that nothing is wrong with them? How do you know they dont have a heart problem? a kidney problem? things that pedigree breeders test for which a quick vet visit wont find?


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## Pitterpatter2009 (Nov 15, 2011)

XxSophie01xX said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am aware that it's difficult to tell the breed of a cat just from pictures, but I am convinced that my baby Ragdoll MUST have some Siamese blood to look the way she does. She was born from a tabby mother and as you will be able to tell from the pictures has light blue eyes and a colour-point (I think that's what it's called?) coat. She is 6 months old. It seems incredible to me that she could be born from a tabby mother and a tabby father and still look EXACTLY like a Siamese cat. I would appreciate any response to this.
> 
> ...


she is beautiful either way! -:yesnod: my auntie in law has a cat exactly the same, born to tabby parents but is identical to a choc colour point siamese however she doesnt have the body shape or structure like the siamese, and yours looks like it is just a gene mutation causing her to have the siamese colouring :ciappa:


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

XxSophie01xX said:


> I don't deny that there are thousands of unwanted cats, but the people who got kittens of me I'm sure knew about that also, but chose to get a cat off me.
> 
> *I posted asking about the breed of my cat, I didn't ask to get shot at for something that I don't even believe to be that much of a problem.
> 
> A lot of cats I know are inbred, and there's nothing wrong with them.*


And there was me thinking this was a nice thread, how wrong I was!

It doesn't matter whether you think it's a problem or not, Mother Nature has determined it is a problem, hence why the offspring of inbreeding of any species do not live long and are riddled with health problems. I bet the next thing you'll say is Mother Nature is wrong too 

If a lot of cats you know are inbred, I would seriously consider getting new friends. There are enough unwanted cats as it is without people adding to the problem, particularly with inbred cats and the load of health problems they have. Yes, they might seem fine initially, but 5, 10, 15 years down the line some poor b*gger is gonna have to fork out a load of money in vets bills because you couldn't be arsed to get your pets spayed.

I would apologise for the 'heckling of your character' but if you can't be bothered to look after and appreciate your pets when some of us go through Hell just to have them living a normal life, I just don't feel I can sum up the energy to say sorry


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Ok , there is a danger of this post getting out of hand and we dont want to see it closed, its already going " off topic " so can we please keep replies directed to the OP..............many thanks..........Chris


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## munchkinpie (Oct 20, 2011)

For once in my life im actually speechless!!


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