# bad news



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

My girl finally started labour a couple of hours ago. Things looked far from right, she was straining very hard and no kitten, so we went into the vet. Whilst at the vet she produced the first kitten - decomposing, followed by a lot of pus. 

We opted to bring her home just in case we can get the others out without having to open her up, but the vet warned that the chances of a live kitten are low and the chances of her getting pregnant again in the future are very low. If she doesn't produce the next one by 5.30 then we have to go back and she will have to have a caesarean. The vet is really implying that we ought to spay her but we wanted these kittens so much, if there is any chance of having another litter then we want to take it.

The cat is in labour again but is subdued - understandably perhaps. Up to and including this morning she was behaving perfectly normally, I had no idea anything was wrong.

We did not know when mating took place, that was the problem. She had been living with the stud cat, at her previous owner's. We have had her for nearly six weeks and she was visibly pregnant when we got her - but only just.

Liz


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## plumo72 (Nov 2, 2007)

Awww hun i'm sorry to hear your sad news it must be awful. I hope she is ok, even if she does end up with a c-section


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Oh LizSo sorry to hear this awful news-i do hope your girl pulls thru for her sake and yours


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Liz. We've had quite bad luck with litters this year and a similar scenario to your cat with our little girl Flower. 

She had two kittens, born via c-section, with only one alive - the other had died quite some time before. Unfortunately the live kitty died after only a couple of days. Flower has now been spayed and is living here as a pet.

It wasn't a great ending, so I hope it works out better for you. x


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Such sad news  my heart goes out to you ((((Hugs))))
I do hope your queen will be OK


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

We've had a second kitten now, also dead.

Liz


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm so sorry, how awful. I hope your girl is ok.


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## Angelicats (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi, hope your girl comes through it all alright, and with any luck have a live kitten. best of luck.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Was it like the first one? 

Good luck Liz. x


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

Is it pyo? has the vet said. there are antiibiotic treatments that will allow the cat to be breed again if it is pyometria.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, the third kitten finally emerged leg first and got stuck. So the cat is having a caesarean after all. I asked, was it possible just to manouvre the kitten out, answer, not without causing a great deal of pain to the cat. Vet gave me a dire warning about the dangers of doing a caesar on a cat with pyometra without spaying her at the same time, told me I was taking a risk with her life. No idea why she didn't tell me that when I saw her five hours previously, it was the same vet. I opted for the caesar only, not spaying, desperately hoping I won't be regretting it. 

Just about everything that can go wrong has. 

The vet thinks it's most unlikely the infection came from the stud cat, says it is because the cervix has been open for too long with no labour. I am desperately regretting not having taken the cat back into the vet on Saturday when no kittens arrived on Friday after mucus came away and we thought everything was under way. The vet on Friday said the cervix wasn't open. The cat seemed entirely normal and happy up to and including this morning, with no signs of going into labour at all. 

I am now waiting for a call from the vet and feeling sick. This poor cat has not had much of a life so far, she has lived in a pen all her life as far as I can tell, and because we had no idea when the kittens were due, she has been living in a kitten pen since we got her six weeks ago. I thought once the kittens arrived that she would be able to have a happy life and now it looks as if she might die. I feel dreadful. 

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> Was it like the first one?


I didn't get to see the first one, though the vet was talking about it actually coming apart in her hand. This one was just dead in the amniotic sac, with a fair amount of pus around.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2008)

Hope she pulls through alright!


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## Tory01 (Mar 21, 2008)

Im so sorry,I hope things go alright for you, please keep us posted.


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## gib (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your kitty is okay x


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Prayers are being said for your queen ((((Hugs))))


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Oh my. Liz - so sorry for you and your baby girl.
Strangely, though I mentioned Flower earlier this actually sounds more like what is happening currently with my girl Ripley.
She is around six weeks pregnant and I took her into the vets tonight with suspected pyometra.
He agreed that she has pyo and I've asked him to remove her womb. I would probably not have done that with any other cat - but this is her second problem pregnancy.

If she has pyometra you won't get a live kitten out - they can't live in that environment.

Is it too late to ask the vet to spay at the same time? Because what she's going to do is remove the babies and somehow try to remove the infection (I have no clue how they will do this). Sewing her back up with some infected material still inside her - well I can see why the vet would be worried.  She'll be on anti biotics for a long time.

So sorry Liz.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

She's home. All the kittens were dead and apparently it was a horrible mess inside. The nurse tells me the vet was extremely careful not to spill any of the yuck, and has sewn it up then sewn it up again folding the edges in to make sure nothing can spill out but there is still some risk / high risk - take your pick. Have to take her back on Monday and watch out for loss of appetite etc. The nurse told me I mustn't let her out tonight!!!!

Vicky looks reasonably alert. If she gets through this then perhaps she can start being a pet which is what all my cats are first and foremost. If she gets through this we will give it one more try much later, perhaps show her a few times in the meantime, and if it doesn't work next time then that's it.

I am very disappointed of course and kicking myself for not having realised she was over time.

Liz


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm so sorry, but its not your fault. How were you suppossed to know when the mating took place? It is the fault of the breeder you got her from. i would report the breeder to the gccf.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, it's a mistake anyone could have made if they had left a queen living with a stud. In fact she had been living with him for a year with no pregnancy. It's no different to the situation many non-pedigree owners are in when they know the cat is pregnant but don't know when the deed was done, and I guess 99 times out of 100 it would have been fine, I've just been very unlucky.

Liz


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm concerned the breeder sold a pregnant cat, and hasn't given you the support you needed.


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

And yes i agree you have been very unlucky. But don't blame yourself.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

lizward said:


> Well, it's a mistake anyone could have made if they had left a queen living with a stud. In fact she had been living with him for a year with no pregnancy. It's no different to the situation many non-pedigree owners are in when they know the cat is pregnant but don't know when the deed was done, and I guess 99 times out of 100 it would have been fine, I've just been very unlucky.
> 
> Liz


Oh im so sorry about your girl and babies, dont be to hard on yourself, its not your fault, and may your luck change for the better soon, x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

catlover10 said:


> I'm concerned the breeder sold a pregnant cat, and hasn't given you the support you needed.


Well to be fair, I'm not a novice breeder - just a rusty one. I have had more litters than I can count - 70 cats registered under my prefix for a start and then there were some that weren't registered because they didn't make it, or were non-pedigrees. I had an almost total wipe-out of my breeding lines from FIP 8 years ago and only recently decided to start again. This was the first litter from one of the new cats, but I am probably at least as experienced as the person I bought them from. it's just a rotten start, that's all.

Vicky is very bright this morning, we brought her into the office where we have some caged rodents and she was very interested in them. I just wish I knew what the danger period is.

Liz


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

Sorry i thought you hadn't had much experience. Just bad luck then.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Liz, sorry to say it like this but given what your girl is going thru do you not think it's a bad idea to have her around rodents,given that her immune system is extremely vulnerable right nowThis girl has just been thru an absolute nightmare and still has some way to go.No disrespect to you Liz-but this was the previous owners mistake at which this girl has now paid a high price and of course your having to foot the bill financially and emotionally-i would be having a few chosen stern words with whomever you aqquired this gal from-you yourself must be very upset to say the least-prayers will be said that she first and foremost makes a great recovery and thank god you now have her.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Glad she is ok. Though personally I would have had her spayed. I think she's endured enough.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Liz-i'm not having a "Go" atyou coz your heads probably all over the place right now and sometimes in situations your not always thinking straight,but is it possible for you to confine your girl her own private recovery place-because as you say neither you or your vet can say how/why this happened and you don't know what this girl may have brought with her and it could pass over to your other cats-unless the previous owner can help shed some light on the matter


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## catlover10 (Mar 27, 2008)

What has the previous owner said?


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Liz ? was the breeder aware the queen was in kitten when she parted with her


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Liz-i'm not having a "Go" atyou coz your heads probably all over the place right now and sometimes in situations your not always thinking straight,but is it possible for you to confine your girl her own private recovery place-because as you say neither you or your vet can say how/why this happened and you don't know what this girl may have brought with her and it could pass over to your other cats-unless the previous owner can help shed some light on the matter


She is in a private recovery place! We had a kitten room all ready for her and she has been living there ever since we got her. She's in a kitten pen in a room on her own - rather tough on her but she needs to recover before we can let her out.

The vet says it was just a matter of the kittens going over time without labour occuring and the first one dying and decomposing so that infection from it spread back through the open cervix. All of which sounds rather like a fluke occurence that only occured because we did not know when she was due.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

catlover10 said:


> What has the previous owner said?


I haven't told her yet.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

may said:


> Liz ? was the breeder aware the queen was in kitten when she parted with her


Yes she was. I agreed, there is really no-one else to blame.

liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

She is in a private recovery place! We had a kitten room all ready for her and she has been living there ever since we got her. She's in a kitten pen in a room on her own - rather tough on her but she needs to recover before we can let her out.
Obviously you didn't keep her penned all the time,are you sure their was no signs of anything being not as it should be,i say this because of your post underneath,you also said that the girl seemed fine up until giving birth-an unborn decomposing kitten would not happen in a few hrs.Know we are different to felines but i'm sure if i had a dead unborn inside of me i would not be feeling myself and it would show

The vet says it was just a matter of the kittens going over time without labour occuring and the first one dying and decomposing so that infection from it spread back through the open cervix. All of which sounds rather like a fluke occurence that only occured because we did not know when she was due.

Yes she was. I agreed, there is really no-one else to blame.I strongly disagree, the previous owner should have been aware of at least when a suspected mating may have possibly happened-did they (apart from feeding them-stud/queen)ever spend time with them.Sometimes these things or that of a similar nature do happen-as part of your family wouldn't you at least know when it may have happened and took it from their so that they/you would have some idea of when kitts were due?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Obviously you didn't keep her penned all the time


I assure you I did. In the past six weeks I have not once left the room without her being shut in the pen. I felt awful but with not knowing when the kittens were due there was nothing else to be done. In the first two weeks she was so terrified that even if I had known the kittens were five weeks away I would not have dared let her out. it was two and a half weeks before I got any sort of response from her. until then she had not made a sound.



> are you sure their was no signs of anything being not as it should be,i say this because of your post underneath,you also said that the girl seemed fine up until giving birth-an unborn decomposing kitten would not happen in a few hrs.


Precisely, which is why I am confused. Honestly she seemed perfectly well up to and including the morning of the birth. I was picking her up for a cuddle and inspection twice a day. The only thing which, in retropsect, was a warnign, was that six days before she eventually gave birth, mucus came away. We went into the vet who said the cervix was not open, and people on the internet were saying the mucus could come away several days before the birth.



> I strongly disagree, the previous owner should have been aware of at least when a suspected mating may have possibly happened-did they (apart from feeding them-stud/queen)ever spend time with them.


I think the short answer is no. I can't quite imagine (having the stud cat!) how it wasn't obvious - it was certainly obvious with the last girl I put in with him, he was looking for "nookie" all the time.

Liz


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

I hope your girl is feeling better Liz.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks - she is very bright and wants cuddles but she hasn't eaten yet. Also her ears are fairly hot which is a sign I was told to look out for (fever) but of course I don't really know how hot is hot. We live in a house without central heating and have put a heater in her room, it is quite warm in there so i don't know if it's that or if she is feverish. Obviously I'm not taking any chances so I think we will be back down the vets shortly - hopefully wasting our money.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

If she has a temperature it may just be best not to battle on with anti-bis and spay her. Sometimes these things happen.

I had that decision to make this morning and I told the vet to go ahead and spay her. It turned out that her womb was absolutely full of pus and our girl probably would have deteriorated and eventually died had we not spayed her.
Hopefully she will now make a full recovery.

Is this a purebred girl, out of interest? Just being nosy. No need to answer.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Good luck at the vets with her Liz Everything crossed it's good news-i'm sure it will be


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> If she has a temperature it may just be best not to battle on with anti-bis and spay her. Sometimes these things happen.
> 
> I had that decision to make this morning and I told the vet to go ahead and spay her. It turned out that her womb was absolutely full of pus and our girl probably would have deteriorated and eventually died had we not spayed her.
> Hopefully she will now make a full recovery.
> ...


Yes she's an Asian self. We have been back into the vets just now and he says she is fine at the moment - no temperature. If she is still OK on Monday the danger should have passed.

Liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

We have been back into the vets just now and he says she is fine at the moment - no temperature. If she is still OK on Monday the danger should have passed.Will say extra strong prayers for her Liz-bet this is the slowest weekend ever for you


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Will say extra strong prayers for her Liz-bet this is the slowest weekend ever for you


Thanks - yes it's been slow. I am a hobby student and am supposed to be doing an OU assignment imminently but can't settle to it, then I have another due and also I have a sermon to do for next week (I'm a Baptist Lay Preacher). I can't concentrate on much at the moment. Both the assignment and the sermon may be pretty bad - and the assignment the week after that will be pretty bad as well, I am way way behind with my reading. Any comments about needing my head examining will be agreed with!

Anyway there is more good news, the cat has started eating again hooray! She is very chirpy - chirrups at us every time we go in to check on her. Poor thing just wants cuddles now and would no doubt love to be allowed more space but we can't take any chances until the risk period is over.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I have uploaded a picture of Vicky under "Asian Cat Photos"


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

lizward said:


> Yes she's an Asian self. We have been back into the vets just now and he says she is fine at the moment - no temperature. If she is still OK on Monday the danger should have passed.
> 
> Liz


That is sounding promising Liz  
I'm pleased your girl is doing OK


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## Sarnajes (Mar 30, 2008)

I hope she is ok, sounds as if you have both been through an awful ordeal.


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## gib (Mar 25, 2008)

How is she today?


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## lizd4688 (Jan 10, 2008)

it has been so sad to read what has happened to your cat.
i hope she recovers well
thinking of you both
liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

gib said:


> How is she today?


She's very well, thanks. We have to stay on the antibiotics for another week but it really does look as if the vet did a great job flushing the uterus out, Vicky has been fine ever since Friday 

Liz


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## catzndogz (Mar 12, 2008)

Hello Liz it was very sad to read about your beautiful little girl. It was great to read that she is on the road to recovery!!!!!!
I'm the owner of a tortie asain girl as a pet. she also had pyometra the breeder had her spayed and we rehomed her along with the stud cat.
Give her a hug from me.


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