# Rats and Tumors?



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I heard rats can get tumors pretty easy.

My mom told me that one of my grans friends bought a rat for her daughter. But then had to take it to the vets for treatment because it had a tumor. It sadly died a month later. They were told this but I am just wondering if its true or not?


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

It is true, rats are very prone to tumours, but I've also found that their chances of getting a tumour or not, are based on their diet. If they have as little sugar, salt and excess fats in their diet as possible, they are less likely to develop a tumour.
Female rats are at a much higher risk because of mammary tumours. This can be 99% prevented by spaying. It's a sad thing but the poor little guys are just prone to them.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

You should never give them citrus fruits, males at least have a far greater chance of getting a tumour if they eat citrus fruits or juice.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I didnt realize you could get rats opted on 

I didnt realise that. I'll be needing to keep that in mind for future use


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> I didnt realize you could get rats opted on
> 
> I didnt realise that. I'll be needing to keep that in mind for future use


I had 2 of my girls operated on for mammary tumours last year, both have fully recovered. It's not cheap & there is a risk of the tumours recurring but from my own experience it has improved their quality of life


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> I had 2 of my girls operated on for mammary tumours last year, both have fully recovered. It's not cheap & there is a risk of the tumours recurring but from my own experience it has improved their quality of life


Its nice to hear that they can survive the op and recover 

Could you give me a rough guess at how much it might cost?

And are the tumors easy to notice?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Its nice to hear that they can survive the op and recover
> 
> Could you give me a rough guess at how much it might cost?
> 
> And are the tumors easy to notice?


I paid £120 for Bullseye & £130 for Shaodw, although I've been told this is more than most other vets charge, some apparently charge about £70 but I was very happy with them & this price included all meds & the follow up appointment. I'm not sure what the op would cost in Canada although I'm sure a vet would give you an estimate if you phoned them.
Tumours are easy to notice, they can be felt under the skin, the mammary ones my girls had were like tiny peas that were under the skin but seperate from the rat's body (there are other types of tumours) located in the groin (Bullseye) & under the armpit (Shadow).


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> I paid £120 for Bullseye & £130 for Shaodw, although I've been told this is more than most other vets charge, some apparently charge about £70 but I was very happy with them & this price included all meds & the follow up appointment. I'm not sure what the op would cost in Canada although I'm sure a vet would give you an estimate if you phoned them.
> Tumours are easy to notice, they can be felt under the skin, the mammary ones my girls had were like tiny peas that were under the skin but seperate from the rat's body (there are other types of tumours) located in the groin (Bullseye) & under the armpit (Shadow).


Sounds like you have an Awesome Vet.

It will be awhile yet before I can get rats but I have prewarned the boyfriend to expect them one day lol.

It sounds as tho they would be noticable with lots of handling and knowing your rat inside and out.

is there other noticable signs of tumors?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> You should never give them citrus fruits, males at least have a far greater chance of getting a tumour if they eat citrus fruits or juice.


In my experience male rats seldom get tumors.... It's mainly the girls, and mainly mammary tumours though all rats can get pituitary or other types such as Squamous Cell carcinoma.

It's a sad fact of life if you own rats, especially the girls, but it has never put me off owning them. I've had some tumours removed but they often grow back. Resistance to cancer can be selected for... some of my lines did not get lumpy til 2 years old or over. Other people's lines can do better. But pet shop rats are a shot in the dark - I have heard of them getting cancerous lumps at under 1 year of age; which is awful.

A very honest & valid reason why breeding from unknown sourced or pet shop stock is a bad idea.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

MerlinsMum said:


> In my experience male rats seldom get tumors.... It's mainly the girls, and mainly mammary tumours though all rats can get pituitary or other types such as Squamous Cell carcinoma.
> 
> It's a sad fact of life if you own rats, especially the girls, but it has never put me off owning them. I've had some tumours removed but they often grow back. Resistance to cancer can be selected for... some of my lines did not get lumpy til 2 years old or over. Other people's lines can do better. But pet shop rats are a shot in the dark - I have heard of them getting cancerous lumps at under 1 year of age; which is awful.
> 
> A very honest & valid reason why breeding from unknown sourced or pet shop stock is a bad idea.


Would you say that diet does have an affect on the likelyhood of rats getting tumours? I only posted about the citrus as two people have told me that info but as you know Im very much a beginner.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Sounds like you have an Awesome Vet.
> 
> It will be awhile yet before I can get rats but I have prewarned the boyfriend to expect them one day lol.
> 
> ...


Not really, the mammary ones are often benign but they will keep on growing if left untreated. 
Despite the health problems they can suffer from I would recommend rats as pets, they are lovely


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Would you say that diet does have an affect on the likelyhood of rats getting tumours? I only posted about the citrus as two people have told me that info but as you know Im very much a beginner.


Male rats can develop kidney cancer because of certain chemicals in citrus fruits, not tumours.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Argent said:


> Male rats can develop kidney cancer because of certain chemicals in citrus fruits, not tumours.


Oooh ok thanks for the correct info I was probably told that in the first place and didnt listen properly.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Not really, the mammary ones are often benign but they will keep on growing if left untreated.
> Despite the health problems they can suffer from I would recommend rats as pets, they are lovely


hmy: thats horrible

I'm going to a petshop tommarow its gonna be so hard not to walk out of there with some furry animal lol must resist.


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## jaxx (Aug 10, 2009)

I lost my beloved Starbuck to tumours. These were embedded in her abdomen and so couldn't be removed. 

My sisters rat Crystal has had two operations to remove 3 tumours and is still doing well. All have proved to be benign but incredibly fast growing (appearing overnight). Her other female, Tara, has a tumour at the moment but as it's not growing or causing any problems, the vets recommended to just keep an eye on it. 

I've three females at the minute and I'm always checking to see if they've got any lumps and bumps. Plus it's a good excuse to kiss their tummies! lol


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

i''m not saying go out and buy pet shop rats but my oldest two are from a pet shop.they are 19 months old and are very healthy rats not had any lumps etc so far touch wood.
my other boys are rescues.

in the future i will be getting off a local nfrs breeder up near me and she breeds russian blue's.my fav as one of the older boys is that and he's gorgeous.

remember when getting rats to get two or more!!

amy


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

jaxx said:


> I lost my beloved Starbuck to tumours. These were embedded in her abdomen and so couldn't be removed.
> 
> My sisters rat Crystal has had two operations to remove 3 tumours and is still doing well. All have proved to be benign but incredibly fast growing (appearing overnight). Her other female, Tara, has a tumour at the moment but as it's not growing or causing any problems, the vets recommended to just keep an eye on it.
> 
> I've three females at the minute and I'm always checking to see if they've got any lumps and bumps. Plus it's a good excuse to kiss their tummies! lol


Its great to hear something can be done about it 

I wish your sisters Rats the best of wishes.

Tummie kiss, I do that to my cats


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

blade100 said:


> i''m not saying go out and buy pet shop rats but my oldest two are from a pet shop.they are 19 months old and are very healthy rats not had any lumps etc so far touch wood.
> my other boys are rescues.
> 
> in the future i will be getting off a local nfrs breeder up near me and she breeds russian blue's.my fav as one of the older boys is that and he's gorgeous.
> ...


I'm not sure if there are breeders of rats here or are were I will be living.

I like the fancy rats that I saw tonight at the store, they were so cute twiching their noses.

I am planing on getting three Boys. And have already decided on the name Zach for one.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Citrus fruit contains d-limeonene which can cause kidney failure in male rats. I also read somewhere that it can cause stomach problems in both sexes because of the citric acid? Not sure if this is true.

I also remember reading that there's a link between high protein diets and tumours?

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Sophie_xxx (Feb 21, 2009)

Some good info in this thread. Ive just realised that 2 of my girl ratties have just reached 1 year, and struggling to come to terms with the fact that I may only have them for another year 

All of my 4 girls were pet shop rats and im constantly checking them all over for signs of any illness or bumps! I didnt realise that the diet could have such a high impact on their future health. My girls often have left over dinner scraps such as chicken, rice, pasta and veg. The other night they had left over gammon steak! After reading up on this though, Im definitley going to stop giving them so much fatty meat and concentrate more on wholegrain and veg. Love my girls to bits and so worried about them getting ill.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

tbh, diet is as important for pets as it is for us but i find breeding to be far more important in the illness side of things.

with pet shops it's luck of the draw, with breeders as long as you have seen the parents and kits with parents (and grandparents if poss) and they are all healthy then they should be fine. you can't expect a 100% healthy rat no matter who the parents are, but the better care taken when breeding (as in choosing who to breed from) the less likely you are to have problems.

having said that, i've only had 2 breeder rats and they both had resp and died from it the other week,they weren't a year old yet (i think, they were close but not over it). my shop boughts (mostly PAH) have been either super healthy or prone to benign tumours. Only 1 shop bought (ohka) has had problems other than tumours, and only 1 (crumpet) was a biter and had cancer.

when buying any pet you should research it as much as possible, in ALL aspects of it's life, not just diet to make sure you provide what it needs completely. and know what your getting into.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

The vets I used to work with had a university that were doing a kind of experiment with rats and tumours. They were trying to see if there was a relationship between the rats being neutered and them then being less likely to get tumours, it actually seemed to work, if I remember right it was something like 60(something)% that didn't get tumours after being neutered. The test was still going on when I left this vets so not sure on the final outcome but it may be worth looking into.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

it would make sense as neutered rats hormones would change quite dramatically, think menopause in humans.

it does seem to assume that 90% of all tumours are hormone related as well as genetic (such as an increased likelihood from genetic predisposition from 
?elevated? tumour causing hormones), so some rats will not have any change in likelihood of tumour appearance as not all tumours will be hormone initiated. 
Do you know what uni was doing the research? i'd quite like to look that up 

you'd also have to weigh up dangers of your rat going under anaesthetic and likelihood of a tumour appearing, the age it appears and growth rate to see if it's worth having it removed and/or having the rat done to prevent further (or any) tumours in the future.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

owieprone said:


> it would make sense as neutered rats hormones would change quite dramatically, think menopause in humans.
> 
> it does seem to assume that 90% of all tumours are hormone related as well as genetic (such as an increased likelihood from genetic predisposition from
> ?elevated? tumour causing hormones), so some rats will not have any change in likelihood of tumour appearance as not all tumours will be hormone initiated.
> ...


I honestly can't remember now it was about a year ago. They were trying it on young rats most of which were completely unrelated to each other and there was a group also that had related rats to compare the gentics as well. All rats were well looked after and lived in pet homes of volunteers and people involved in the study so it wasn't like a lab setting. During my time at the vets we never lost a single rat to the anaesthetic although I don't know about any losses since leaving there. It was a nice quick op and all rats were kept warm and had a nurse or animal care holding them till they were fully awake, with the anaesthetic being gas it was the safest option with being able to adjust how deep they are constantly. If I remember right all the rats used were male for the reason that the op would be much easier and faster so better for the rats. I can't remember now if they were going to go ahead with testing on females with the sucess of the males.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i would have thought doing it on females would have been the better option due to their prevalence for tumours over males, but i suppose males are easier and success on them could be used to get funding or allowance to continue the testing on females.

interesting study  i'll see if i can find it online.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

owieprone said:


> i would have thought doing it on females would have been the better option due to their prevalence for tumours over males, but i suppose males are easier and success on them could be used to get funding or allowance to continue the testing on females.
> 
> interesting study  i'll see if i can find it online.


That was the idea the surgery is less invasive for males so if sucess was shown with them it would be good grounds to try with females.


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