# do you have to pay vet upfront even though you are insured??



## jordanandmeeko (Jan 12, 2013)

I have been looking into insurance as mine will be running out relatively soon. 

But is it the case that even though you have insurance you yourself have to come up with the money in the first instance to pay the vet!? So for example if emergency medical treatment was needed you might have to pay out the £1000 to get the cat treated straightaway and then your insurance company will eventually pay you back......? and are all policies likes this if is this is the case?


I know when I had my horse, that no money (apart from the initial excess of £65) ever had to be paid directly by me to my vet as it was all covered by my insurance company......!


If this is the case then I am a bit worried as I do not have this amount of disposable income as I did not realise that there would be such differences in insuring different animals as horses vets bills are a lot more expensive but were at least fully coverable and budgetable through paying insurance! and it will be hard to save up for an emergency fund as well as pay the insurance premiums each month...!


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

I am with pet plan and when my kitty's were hospitalised pet plan payed my vet direct. But if the problem is something minor I usually pay the vet direct and claim back. Pet plan are also very good at paying out too.

Viv xx


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

My vet makes the claim direct to petplan if it is over £300, otherwise I have to pay upfront. So maybe you could check what your vet's way of working is and then you could keep the £300 or whatever separate, knowing that it will be the most you have to pay? Also find out if your vet does payment plans for huge bills while you are asking, as that can be another way to manage an unexpected cost.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It is not up to the insurance company it is up to the vet. My last vet always claimed direct from the insurance no matter who it is, but some vets I am told will only deal direct with certain companies.

When I changed vets I specifically asked if they claimed direct before I registered with them, so I should ask your vet if I were you.


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## jasminex (Oct 16, 2012)

Yes, I think it usually depends on the vet rather than the insurance policy.. For a large operation (£'000s) they did a direct claim - which was pre approved by petplan so they knew they would get the money - but for everything else I have paid then claimed. Although I've never actually asked about them doing direct claims for the other amounts. As previous posters said, check with your vet


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## Kah (Jul 20, 2012)

I have to pay up front with my vet but as I'm with Petplan (which they recommended) I think it would be different it it were a large amount.
Kx


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## sharonchilds (Jul 7, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> It is not up to the insurance company it is up to the vet. My last vet always claimed direct from the insurance no matter who it is, but some vets I am told will only deal direct with certain companies.
> 
> When I changed vets I specifically asked if they claimed direct before I registered with them, so I should ask your vet if I were you.


My vets dont do direct payment 
While i would never be without insurance because i could never afford a huge bill, i find it hard to understand why many vets wont do it


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Our vet will claim direct if you are with Petplan - any other insurance and they ask for payment first and then you claim it back - although they do fill out the form, attach the associated receipts and send the claim off for you.

I wonder if there is a lesson to be learned here - does the fact that most vets are happy to claim direct from Petplan and are reluctant to so so with other companies mean that Petplan is the best company for paying out claims? We used to be with Petplan but changed to Direct Line because we could not afford their premiums - but is it a case of you get what you pay for?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> It is not up to the insurance company it is up to the vet. My last vet always claimed direct from the insurance no matter who it is, but some vets I am told will only deal direct with certain companies.
> 
> When I changed vets I specifically asked if they claimed direct before I registered with them, so I should ask your vet if I were you.


yarp - its down to the individual vets, my small animal and equine vets allow me to claim direct x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

sharonchilds said:


> My vets dont do direct payment
> While i would never be without insurance because i could never afford a huge bill, i find it hard to understand why many vets wont do it


I wouldn't go to a vet who did not claim direct from any insurance company. It was the first question I asked when I was looking for a new vet.

If your carpet gets damaged, the carpet shop will wait for the insurance to pay them; I see no reason for a vet to be any different.



Spellweaver said:


> Our vet will claim direct if you are with Petplan - any other insurance and they ask for payment first and then you claim it back - although they do fill out the form, attach the associated receipts and send the claim off for you.
> 
> I wonder if there is a lesson to be learned here - does the fact that most vets are happy to claim direct from Petplan and are reluctant to so so with other companies mean that Petplan is the best company for paying out claims? We used to be with Petplan but changed to Direct Line because we could not afford their premiums - but is it a case of you get what you pay for?


I think it is more a case of they get commission from Petplan, personally.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I think it is more a case of they get commission from Petplan, personally.


:lol: I never thought of that - you're probably right!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> :lol: I never thought of that - you're probably right!


Well, who's leaflets do they have on their reception desks?


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## sharonchilds (Jul 7, 2011)

Newfiesmum...I wish i had asked before i fell in love with our vet. She is the best vet ive ever seen, she is fantastic with the cats and very caring. When 2 of mine had to stay in she gave me her mobile no and told me to ring her anytime 
If she ever leaves i will be out of there and find a vet that does do direct payment


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Our vets allows direct claims of over £1000, although to be honest they have been really good with us and often let us put any amount on the tab! That said, they have had a fair amount of money out of us! We're finally caught up now though! Hoorah!!


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

We did the first time but after that they just got the money from the insurance company.


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

I do insurance claims for our practice and we do try to do direct claims a lot of the time, particularly if it's for a very large amount/for something we have claimed for for that patient in the past. We do have to be careful though, in the past we have been left with large outstanding amounts when it transpires that the animal wasn't insured or not covered for a particular condition because they've switched companies or have policy exclusions. The owners have paid the excess then disappeared! 
I have Petplan insurance for both my cat and dog-both have had surgery at referral hospitals. In one instance I had to pay upfront and then make a claim (£900) and in the other the hospital made a direct claim and I paid the excess and an admin fee when I collected her, that bill was £1100. 
The best thing to do is to ask your vets if they would be prepared to make a direct claim from whichever company you are insured with.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

The vets I have visited recently (local & orthopedic) have both had notices stating which insurance companies they won't deal directly with - not sure why as Pet Plan who I am with wasn't on there!

With Toby (my dog) we had a claim for his first op which was more than £3k & this was paid directly by the insurance company to the vet


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Cashflow is king in any business so vets won't deal direct with insurers who have shown themselves to be difficult or slow in paying. All insurers, including Petplan, are being more careful nowadays and not just paying out without question so there's every chance that having to pay up front will become more common rather than less. Getting pre approval means the vet knows they will be paid. It's something they tend to do on more expensive treatments hence some of them stating a minimum amount for claiming on your behalf.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

havoc said:


> Cashflow is king in any business so vets won't deal direct with insurers who have shown themselves to be difficult or slow in paying. All insurers, including Petplan, are being more careful nowadays and not just paying out without question so there's every chance that having to pay up front will become more common rather than less. Getting pre approval means the vet knows they will be paid. It's something they tend to do on more expensive treatments hence some of them stating a minimum amount for claiming on your behalf.


I am with Churchill for Ferdie and I was with them for Joshua. I have never had a problem with them and they pay out straight away, as soon as they get the claim from the vet.

Unless it is a company that is reknowned for wriggling out of paying, I would expect no less of any other company. There is absolutely no point in paying out for insurance if I am then expected to pay upfront for treatment, no point at all.

Insurance for my two dogs is £100 per month; I would be better off saving it if they didn't claim direct.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If your carpet gets damaged, the carpet shop will wait for the insurance to pay them; I see no reason for a vet to be any different.


If you damage your carpet you don't go straight out and buy a replacement. If you do then your insurer may refuse to pay out or only make a partial payment. You wait for your insurer to tell you it's OK - ie you get pre approval.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

havoc said:


> If you damage your carpet you don't go straight out and buy a replacement. If you do then your insurer may refuse to pay out or only make a partial payment. You wait for your insurer to tell you it's OK - ie you get pre approval.


Yes, and you phone your insurance for approval for vet treatment as well. The only difference is that if they refuse the vet claim, you are probably still going to have the treatment. That is how my insurance company do it, look at your policy and history and tell you if they will pay.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Yes, and you phone your insurance for approval for vet treatment as well


Vets don't phone below a certain amount hence they sometimes require payment up front below a given minimum.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

havoc said:


> Vets don't phone below a certain amount hence they sometimes require payment up front below a given minimum.


No the vet doesn't phone, I do. My vet has never asked for payment up front, not even the excess, and I made sure when I changed that they were the same.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My vet has never asked for payment up front


Some don't, some do. I was only explaining why.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

It's really a simple matter of legality.

YOU incur the bill. It's YOUR responsibility. Your vet may (or may not) accept payment directly from an insurance company but it's a business decision of his. Some companies pay out quickly, some slowly and some fight to the death before they pay out. Therefore, probably having had a bad experience with a company the vet may decide it's simply not good sense to wait for them to pay out. Most vets are happy to be paid by Pet Plan (and although they also get commission if you sign up to Pet Plan via them they are more interested in getting paid for treatment that they give). VetsMediCover insisted that the vet had to accept direct payment when they started up - but I think they found that many vets wouldn't do so and changed their rules.

After all, why should a vet deal with your choice of insurance company? It was your choice - not theirs.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

AlbertRoss said:


> It's really a simple matter of legality.
> 
> YOU incur the bill. It's YOUR responsibility. Your vet may (or may not) accept payment directly from an insurance company but it's a business decision of his. Some companies pay out quickly, some slowly and some fight to the death before they pay out. Therefore, probably having had a bad experience with a company the vet may decide it's simply not good sense to wait for them to pay out. Most vets are happy to be paid by Pet Plan (and although they also get commission if you sign up to Pet Plan via them they are more interested in getting paid for treatment that they give). VetsMediCover insisted that the vet had to accept direct payment when they started up - but I think they found that many vets wouldn't do so and changed their rules.
> 
> After all, why should a vet deal with your choice of insurance company? It was your choice - not theirs.


If their choice, i.e. Petplan, were not so damned expensive it would make for an easier time all round then. I couldn't possibly afford to insure my two via petplan.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

jordanandmeeko said:


> I have been looking into insurance as mine will be running out relatively soon.
> 
> But is it the case that even though you have insurance you yourself have to come up with the money in the first instance to pay the vet!? So for example if emergency medical treatment was needed you might have to pay out the £1000 to get the cat treated straightaway and then your insurance company will eventually pay you back......? and are all policies likes this if is this is the case?
> 
> ...


Jordanandmeeko: I am not an expert but had a recent situation involving cat insurance and to be honest, I rather think it depends on who is treating your animal. Like you, l in the past I had two horses insured with Stoneways, both of whom (several years apart and for different reasons) were referred by my vet to the Equine Hospital in Liphook. There was not a problem, excess paid, excellent treatment and horses returned and treated by the referring vet. Great. NOT COMPAINING. 
Last summer, however, my beloved NFC (insured) was referred to a highly respected Veterinary Clinic...I have been told since by several people that they are supposedly the best in the country. He was six years old. We got there at 10 am on a Saturday morning to be told (before my boy had seen a vet): 'We need you to pay half of the costs in advance'. I asked what costs she was referring to as he had not even been seen by a vet at that point (he was still in the carrier), she gave a huge sigh, as tho I were an imbecile, stared thro me and said, 'Half the cost of the treatment'. I pointed out to this woman that as he had not seen one of their vets yet THEY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING what treatment he was due to receive and even less idea what it might cost. She then informed me that the treatment had been_ estimated_ at £3000. My own vet (the one who referrred him) had no idea what was wrong with him and so I asked who had estimated this amount and she said nothing. I told her that my boy was insured and they could claim direct from Tesco as and when necessary. I was then told that in that case I had to pay the excess PLUS an admin fee of £25 for the privilege of letting my insurance company claim direct, and in the event my beautiful boy was pts after 3.5 days as the insurance was inadequate. To rub salt in the wound, I was then charged for euthanasia and cremation which were not included in the policyI have no complaints whatsoever about Tesco Insurance but if ever you are referred to a TOP_ vet hospital, please take on board that a consultatio on a Saturday morning will cost you £266 and upwards. Really sorry about the rant Jordanandmeeko...I never had a problem with horses either ...and you ssort of think horses are more costly? OK my mare costs me the same to insure as my car...but my cat was costing £15 a month and he was a relative youngster,


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

A lousy story and abominable service - but nothing to do with your insurance. It was your treatment by the veterinary establishment which was dreadful.

Albert Ross has, as usual, summed it up brilliantly. You have contracted with your chosen insurer and that has nothing whatsoever to do with the vet. When you visit the vet YOU are liable for the bill and your insurer may indemnify you if you have appropriate cover in place. It isn't unusual by the way for vets to charge an admin fee for making a claim on a client's behalf - most just never realise.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

mine are insured (pet plan) after a 'free month' from newtons neuter/chip.. and i didnt record it with vet - just didnt think about it tbh 

then i had to do OOH trip with him - they didnt have record of his insurance ( my fault like i said) but as my 2 are up to date with jabs etc - said i could pay on follow up.... thats before they knew he needed xray ..etc

and then they let pet plan sort the lot, only sent me bill after that ( £11 for direct claim, told up front on trip 2 - first 'normal hours') so just excess for me  - the OOh was more than that 

(in case you dont know - newton had mild dislocation of pelvis, not that you'd know it now....but at the time, he was in lots of pain)


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## jordanandmeeko (Jan 12, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Jordanandmeeko: I am not an expert but had a recent situation involving cat insurance and to be honest, I rather think it depends on who is treating your animal. Like you, l in the past I had two horses insured with Stoneways, both of whom (several years apart and for different reasons) were referred by my vet to the Equine Hospital in Liphook. There was not a problem, excess paid, excellent treatment and horses returned and treated by the referring vet. Great. NOT COMPAINING.
> Last summer, however, my beloved NFC (insured) was referred to a highly respected Veterinary Clinic...I have been told since by several people that they are supposedly the best in the country. He was six years old. We got there at 10 am on a Saturday morning to be told (before my boy had seen a vet): 'We need you to pay half of the costs in advance'. I asked what costs she was referring to as he had not even been seen by a vet at that point (he was still in the carrier), she gave a huge sigh, as tho I were an imbecile, stared thro me and said, 'Half the cost of the treatment'. I pointed out to this woman that as he had not seen one of their vets yet THEY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING what treatment he was due to receive and even less idea what it might cost. She then informed me that the treatment had been_ estimated_ at £3000. My own vet (the one who referrred him) had no idea what was wrong with him and so I asked who had estimated this amount and she said nothing. I told her that my boy was insured and they could claim direct from Tesco as and when necessary. I was then told that in that case I had to pay the excess PLUS an admin fee of £25 for the privilege of letting my insurance company claim direct, and in the event my beautiful boy was pts after 3.5 days as the insurance was inadequate. To rub salt in the wound, I was then charged for euthanasia and cremation which were not included in the policyI have no complaints whatsoever about Tesco Insurance but if ever you are referred to a TOP_ vet hospital, please take on board that a consultatio on a Saturday morning will cost you £266 and upwards. Really sorry about the rant Jordanandmeeko...I never had a problem with horses either ...and you ssort of think horses are more costly? OK my mare costs me the same to insure as my car...but my cat was costing £15 a month and he was a relative youngster,


I am sorry to hear about your story and your loss. And yes, considering the costs of horses and also their treatments I was also surprised at the costs of insuring a cat. You would of thought and would of hoped that everything woudl of been covered for £15.

Thankyou everyone for your advice. It seems that it is all down to the different veterinary clinics!


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

For vets, half the problem is that direct claims take up even more time than regular ones because we have to do the chasing for those and often finding that time is very hard. Also since there's always something that the insurance company won't pay then you need to trust that the client will come back and pay the outstanding amount which if there was some big problem could be a substantial amount. So it's much much easier to be paid up front and the each client claims for themselves.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

HannahKate said:


> For vets, half the problem is that direct claims take up even more time than regular ones because we have to do the chasing for those and often finding that time is very hard. Also since there's always something that the insurance company won't pay then you need to trust that the client will come back and pay the outstanding amount which if there was some big problem could be a substantial amount. So it's much much easier to be paid up front and the each client claims for themselves.


Easier for who? Certainly people get their pets insured so that they never have to worry about finding huge sums of money, but it seems that vets would rather let the animal die than do a little chasing.

It certainly puts paid to any half baked notion that vets are animal lovers.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Easier for who? Certainly people get their pets insured so that they never have to worry about finding huge sums of money, but it seems that vets would rather let the animal die than do a little chasing.
> 
> It certainly puts paid to any half baked notion that vets are animal lovers.


I think thats quite harsh, Vets may well be animal lovers but they somehow have to be able to cover their overheads and just loving animals doesn't pay the rent. They are a business and they can't run on magic beans sadly, and having worked in the office of a busy vet practise they simply don't have the time to chase up insurance claims or they would have to employ more office staff to do so which in turn would put their prices up further, your beef should be with the lackadaisical insurance companies that won't or don't pay out, if they all worked like Pet Plan then there wouldn't be a problem but they don't they take ages to process claims and fight tooth and nail over small details to try and avoid paying, and why should it be the Vet that loses out.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> For vets, half the problem is that direct claims take up even more time than regular ones because we have to do the chasing for those ...
> 
> Also since there's always something that the insurance company won't pay then you need to trust that the client will come back and pay the outstanding amount


Thats why i have no issue with mine charging £11 for direct claim - thats their staff costs covered

but i did like (and didnt expect) that i didnt have to pay anything on the OOH, and follow up ...
mine are only 1 & 2 yrs old - so not long standing client ... but they are up to date with the standard jabs - thats enough for my vets to trust me. it goes both ways - after pet plan settled with them, vet sent me a bill for the excess & i paid that week...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

MontyMaude said:


> I think thats quite harsh, Vets may well be animal lovers but they somehow have to be able to cover their overheads and just loving animals doesn't pay the rent. They are a business and they can't run on magic beans sadly, and having worked in the office of a busy vet practise they simply don't have the time to chase up insurance claims or they would have to employ more office staff to do so which in turn would put their prices up further, your beef should be with the lackadaisical insurance companies that won't or don't pay out, if they all worked like Pet Plan then there wouldn't be a problem but they don't they take ages to process claims and fight tooth and nail over small details to try and avoid paying, and why should it be the Vet that loses out.


I don't think it is harsh at all. When one claim I had direct from my vet didn't get paid after a couple of weeks, he asked me to chase it up. What is wrong with that?

I am sure their overheads are well and truly covered by the astronomical amounts they charge for the simplest things. When I pay £60 odd for flea preparation that I can actually get on the internet for £20, tell me where the rest is going if not toward their overheads.

It wouldn't kill them to either claim direct, wait for the money until the client has claimed or take it in installments. But no, it is either pay up or pts in a lot of cases which I think is diabolical.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The bill is yours, you've contracted with the vet to pay it. You have a completely separate contract with your insurer for them to indemnify *you*. Why are people having such a problem understanding this?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

havoc said:


> The bill is yours, you've contracted with the vet to pay it. You have a completely separate contract with your insurer for them to indemnify *you*. Why are people having such a problem understanding this?


Perhaps because this is the only area where this happens. If I go to a private hospital under private insurance, the hospital claim direct from them. Nobody asks me to pay upfront. If I get something repaired or replaced, all the shop needs is a phone call from the insurance company to go ahead.

What makes vets any different? Emotional blackmail, that's what.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't think it is harsh at all. When one claim I had direct from my vet didn't get paid after a couple of weeks, he asked me to chase it up. What is wrong with that?
> 
> I am sure their overheads are well and truly covered by the astronomical amounts they charge for the simplest things. When I pay £60 odd for flea preparation that I can actually get on the internet for £20, tell me where the rest is going if not toward their overheads.
> 
> It wouldn't kill them to either claim direct, wait for the money until the client has claimed or take it in installments. But no, it is either pay up or pts in a lot of cases which I think is diabolical.


You would be surprised by the amount of people who don't pay their vets bills though and many many vets have been burnt by letting people pay later or instalments and not everyone is as honest as you, sadly a few rotten apples have spoilt it for the majority.

Having said that you have a giant breed of dog so you should know that that is going to incur larger bills for virtually everything from flea treatment to anaesthetics, I know because I had a giant breed and expected to pay more for everything, you can't blame the vets for that.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If I go to a private hospital under private insurance, the hospital claim direct from them. Nobody asks me to pay upfront


No they don't - not for small amounts.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If I get something repaired or replaced, all the shop needs is a phone call from the insurance company to go ahead


Ah, I'm starting to realise where you're coming from. Cheaper insurance policies do tend to deal direct because you have to use one of their authorised suppliers. This is not yet the case with pet insurance though I suppose it may happen in the future. It would be automatic direct payment but only with a vet on your insurer's approved list.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Perhaps because this is the only area where this happens. If I go to a private hospital under private insurance, the hospital claim direct from them. Nobody asks me to pay upfront. If I get something repaired or replaced, all the shop needs is a phone call from the insurance company to go ahead.
> 
> What makes vets any different? Emotional blackmail, that's what.


Funny. When I've gone into private hospital, although I have health insurance that has always paid them directly, they've asked me for a credit card number to make sure the bill is paid. Go into hospital in the USA and they won't treat you until they know they are going to get paid. If you don't have insurance they quite often ask you to pay upfront.

The vet is running a business. Why should he risk not getting paid by an insurance company that was YOUR choice? The debt is yours - nobody else's. It's not emotional blackmail - it's simple business sense.


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