# Who will win? Tories or labour?



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I don't know about anyone else but i can't wait to see who is going to run this country next.Yes i know its been a long drawn out affair but i've found it intersting.So my question is, who do you want to see run the country, Lab/Lib or Tory/Lib?*


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

torys and libs if any

would have prefered just conservatives bbut hey ho... lol

when do we find out? isit on now?


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

Without doubt I would prefer Labour. Consevatives have been ripping us off for centuries along with all the other mostly Consevative driven organisations such as the banks, building societies, estate agents, solicitors, landlords, insurance companies, employers and many more. 
These are the people who need the riot act reading to them and putting into line.
The trouble with labour is they try to cover too many bases and wind up wasting too much money. But I'd sooner have a government who's trying to do the right thing and making mistakes than a Conservative government who just seeks to look after their wealthy friends and maintain a lavish lifestyle for themselves at the cost of everyone else.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> Without doubt I would prefer Labour. Consevatives have been ripping us off for centuries along with all the other mostly Consevative driven organisations such as the banks, building societies, estate agents, solicitors, landlords, insurance companies, employers and many more.
> These are the people who need the riot act reading to them and putting into line.
> The trouble with labour is they try to cover too many bases and wind up wasting too much money. But I'd sooner have a government who's trying to do the right thing and making mistakes than a Conservative government who just seeks to look after their wealthy friends and maintain a lavish lifestyle for themselves at the cost of everyone else.


tbh though between blair/brown they have ruined this country. Immigration is out of control....taxes are discusting... they honestly wouldnt even be able to organise a p*ss up in abeewery imo...

conservative arnt saints by any means i do feel they are the best of a bad bunch,....

time for a change - i voted conservatives... purely as i feel they cannot do any worse than labour.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

nic101 said:


> torys and libs if any
> 
> would have prefered just conservatives bbut hey ho... lol
> 
> when do we find out? isit on now?


*I'm not sure when we find out, but i hope its pretty damn soon.This mess is costing the country money we can't afford.
My vote is for Lab/lib :thumbup:*


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

Hopefully it will be a labour/ lid dem coalition. I think lib dem would have faired even worse in the election should voters think that they may prop up the tories in a hung parliament.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

I dont care which way round it goes! I am just happy that Lib dems get a chance to show what they can do! I think if they do well with it, then more people will vote for them!


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

thing is though - lib/tories combined have enought seats - labour/lib dont....?

so hows that working?


im not pretending i know anything about poliics but i know i have an opinion about this country...


im sure we all agree on one thing..... gordon brown is u.g.l.y :lol:


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i think it is a bit like trying to choose between which 2 deckchairs to sit on, on the titanic


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

i think tories/lib dem.

Labour only know how to tax and spend. they love to throw money at problems. I think lib dem deserve to be able to have a go, so i think it would be good if they teamed up with the tories.

An nic is right. Gorden brown is fugly!!!


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> i think it is a bit like trying to choose between which 2 deckchairs to sit on, on the titanic


VERY TRUE! we all need to get on a life boat outta here!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

tafwoc said:


> VERY TRUE! we all need to get on a life boat outta here!


ohh i would love to get on a boat out of here


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

nic101 said:


> tbh though between blair/brown they have ruined this country. Immigration is out of control....taxes are discusting... they honestly wouldnt even be able to organise a p*ss up in abeewery imo...
> 
> conservative arnt saints by any means i do feel they are the best of a bad bunch,....
> 
> time for a change - i voted conservatives... purely as i feel they cannot do any worse than labour.


I funny how you complain about immigration when the chief beneficiaries from it are mostly Tory driven companies looking for cheap labour from abroad and have made redundant a large number of British employees and thrown them on the scrap heap in favour of this cheap labour which are now costing the tax payer a unsustainable fortune. I remember the last Tory government under Margaret Thatcher. People have short memories. In those days a large number of people felt like throttling her. Imagine 15/16% interest rates today, that's what we would of got under a Conservative government. They love their high interest rates.

The Conservatives have always been worse than labour, unless your wealthy of course.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Paul Dunham said:


> I funny how you complain about immigration when the chief beneficiaries from it are mostly Tory driven companies looking for cheap labour from abroad and have made redundant a large number of British employees and thrown them on the scrap heap in favour of this cheap labour which are now costing the tax payer a unsustainable fortune. I remember the last Tory government under Margaret Thatcher. People have short memories. In those days a large number of people felt like throttling her. Imagine 15/16% interest rates today, that's what we would of got under a Conservative government. They love their high interest rates.
> 
> The Conservatives have always been worse than labour, unless your wealthy of course.


i have to agree with you there:thumbup: a lot of the young voters of today have no idea what happened back then when so many people lost their homes thatcher only allowed people to buy their own homes ( council houses) so they would have a hold on them when the strikes were threatened because if they went on strike they were certain to lose their homes before they bought them it wouldnt have mattered


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Paul Dunham said:


> I funny how you complain about immigration when the chief beneficiaries from it are mostly Tory driven companies looking for cheap labour from abroad and have made redundant a large number of British employees and thrown them on the scrap heap in favour of this cheap labour which are now costing the tax payer a unsustainable fortune. I remember the last Tory government under Margaret Thatcher. People have short memories. In those days a large number of people felt like throttling her. Imagine 15/16% interest rates today, that's what we would of got under a Conservative government. They love their high interest rates.
> 
> The Conservatives have always been worse than labour, unless your wealthy of course.


*Watching Cameron and reading between the lines the other day i could see this happening all over again.*


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Watching Cameron and reading between the lines the other day i could see this happening all over again.*


course it will janice


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Probably Tory/Lib :arf: :arf: 

Shame...imo should have been Labour outright


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> I funny how you complain about immigration when the chief beneficiaries from it are mostly Tory driven companies looking for cheap labour from abroad and have made redundant a large number of British employees and thrown them on the scrap heap in favour of this cheap labour which are now costing the tax payer a unsustainable fortune. I remember the last Tory government under Margaret Thatcher. People have short memories. In those days a large number of people felt like throttling her. Imagine 15/16% interest rates today, that's what we would of got under a Conservative government. They love their high interest rates.
> 
> The Conservatives have always been worse than labour, unless your wealthy of course.


I wasnt around then. Im a student and obviously want a good future, but this recession means i will stay in education as long as possible as the jobs are scarce.

I just voted who i did as i honestly dont see labour improving anything - espeically allow immigrants amnesty to claim benefits (which they will..... get houses etc) when i stuggle as is

as you can probably tell my main gripe is the illegals.. im all for different cultures combined,,, but this is now.. toomuch.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

nic101 said:


> I wasnt around then. Im a student and obviously want a good future, but this recession means i will stay in education as long as possible as the jobs are scarce.
> 
> I just voted who i did as i honestly dont see labour improving anything - espeically allow immigrants amnesty to claim benefits (which they will..... get houses etc) when i stuggle as is
> 
> as you can probably tell my main gripe is the illegals.. im all for different cultures combined,,, but this is now.. toomuch.


*I honestly think you will be far worse off under a tory goverment.Now all the time we are part of europe we won't be able to do much about imigration.So best we get out of it.:thumbup:*


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

nic101 said:


> I wasnt around then. Im a student and obviously want a good future, but this recession means i will stay in education as long as possible as the jobs are scarce.
> 
> I just voted who i did as i honestly dont see labour improving anything - espeically allow immigrants amnesty to claim benefits (which they will..... get houses etc) when i stuggle as is
> 
> as you can probably tell my main gripe is the illegals.. im all for different cultures combined,,, but this is now.. toomuch.


You should have voted BNP :lol:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

I sincerely hope that it will be Labour/LibDem. We are in for a very rough ride indeed if it's Tories/LibDem. The highest interest rates ever, unemployment at a record high, industry decimated, child poverty the highest in Europe, rich fat cats becoming richer and richer - that's what happened last time they were in power so gird your loins if they succeed this time!

btw - I still find it odd that people on here (it is a forum about animals, after all!) can actually support the Tories, a party who have stated they will bring back fox hunting and badger culling. What's that all about?  



archiebaby said:


> i have to agree with you there:thumbup: a lot of the young voters of today have no idea what happened back then when so many people lost their homes thatcher only allowed people to buy their own homes ( council houses) so they would have a hold on them when the strikes were threatened because if they went on strike they were certain to lose their homes before they bought them it wouldnt have mattered


I thoroughly agree. No-one who lived through the eighties would ever want us to go back to that - except of course those who are are rich enough, and have so little social conscience that they don't care about how everyday people have to manage to eke out an existence whilst they line their pockets at our expense.



JANICE199 said:


> *Watching Cameron and reading between the lines the other day i could see this happening all over again.*


You are right Janice - they are already not listening to the people. One thing this election has shown is that the people of this country want electoral reform - yet Liam Fox was on TV the other day saying that was rubbish and that he had not met one voter who wanted electoral reform. For those of you who weren't around in the 80's, that's how the Tories always operate. They ignore the truth and tell you that the opposite is true.



nic101 said:


> I wasnt around then. Im a student and obviously want a good future, but this recession means i will stay in education as long as possible as the jobs are scarce.
> 
> I just voted who i did as i honestly dont see labour improving anything - espeically allow immigrants amnesty to claim benefits (which they will..... get houses etc) when i stuggle as is
> 
> as you can probably tell my main gripe is the illegals.. im all for different cultures combined,,, but this is now.. toomuch.


It is the LibDems who want to offer an amnesty to illegal immigrants, not Labour, so wether they join up with Labour or the Tories won't make a difference. And don't forget that the legal immigrants who are working (ie the ones who everyone complains about for taking jobs that British won't do) are paying taxes just like the rest of us - ie they are putting money into system that pays for your education and hence your future!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Don't be stupid people will kill animals no matter what government is on. I voted blue so shall I just f**k off then?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> Don't be stupid people will kill animals no matter what government is on. I voted blue so shall I just f**k off then?


Actually I would say that with an attitude like that you've voted for the correct party for you ............ :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

I hope its lab/lib (and whatever other multicolour parties they will be joining with)

Agree with spellweaver... I grew up in the 80's, and being from a mining family saw first hand what a tory government can do to people and towns.

I NEVER want to go back to that time, and i dont want my children growing up under torie rule.

x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> It is the LibDems who want to offer an amnesty to illegal immigrants, not Labour, so wether they join up with Labour or the Tories won't make a difference. And don't forget that the legal immigrants who are working (ie the ones who everyone complains about for taking jobs that British won't do) are paying taxes just like the rest of us - ie they are putting money into system that pays for your education and hence your future!


*I thought this was the case but i have found this which i found interesting and didn't know about until the "3 " were debating on telly the other day.Its a 14 year rule.*
BBC News - What illegal migrants think about the general election


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> Actually I would say that with an attitude like that you've voted for the correct party for you ............ :lol: :lol: :lol:


well it's true


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> well it's true


Of course it is - if the Tories don't get in people are not going to stop killing animals. But if theTories do get in, they ARE going to reintroduce fox hunting and they ARE going to stop vaccinating badgers against TB and re-legalise culling them instead. Now both of those, in my opinion, are cruel and backwards steps that I could never countenance by voting Tory, and as I said, this being a forum full of animals lovers it surprises me that there are people on here who thnk that this is ok.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

I think it will be tory / lib....tho i would rather hope for lab/lib....


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

just wanted to point out to the students here...

the tories original plans for tuition fees etc is to raise them to a minimum of £7k a year but many (cameron included) want unlimited fees like in america. Not quite the same message they gave in their manifesto is it?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I thought this was the case but i have found this which i found interesting and didn't know about until the "3 " were debating on telly the other day.Its a 14 year rule.*
> BBC News - What illegal migrants think about the general election


Oooh, that's interesting, Janice - thanks for posting that. So basically if an illegal immigrant can manage to stay in this country undetected for 14 years then they become legal? Hmmm. Clegg's not giving very much away by offering an amnesty to all illegal immigrants and starting afresh then, is he? Probably would save the country millions in beaurocracy though.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

My parents were relatively poor and lived through the Thatcher years and they still say that it was incredibly hard, but it was for the best of the country as a whole. Yes people lost jobs and had unimaginable harshness but that was for the best of the whole and future of the country??

Do they just not remember it correctly? Or are they the only people to think that way?

ALthough, for everyone saying Tories will screw us over and Libs won't- Clegg said he would support whoever got the most votes. Now however with Brown leaving he's back in talks with Lab just because they'll give him everything he wants? Yeah, sounds like a stand up guy to me!!

ALL politicians are out for themselves, their own power and what -they- think is right. None of them give a toss about us, why should they? They get paid either way! (and they get paid a LOT either way). 

None of the main 3 parties can be trusted, the only bloody good thing to come out this election is Brown buggering off. And even then whose to say that someone even worse (if its possible) won't take over?
Just mo. But there it is. 
xx


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## candyshandy (Dec 10, 2008)

The Bank of England now sets interest rates not the political party in power.

My concern is that people have made decisions based on the past - all three parties are completely different from years ago. I decided to read in detail the manifestos to decide how I wanted to vote and my vote was based on that alone not on what has happened 20 years ago!!

I grew up under a Tory government, came from a mining village, lived in a council house. I went to Uni (first in my family) obtained a good degree and a professional qualification. I now find myself unemployed after being made redundant last month. Hmmm which government have let me down - Labour!

I'm sorry but the Labour government have not handled this economic crisis at all well. The amount of debt we are in is partly down to their philosophy of spend now worry about it later, a philosophy they passed down to the younger generation of this country. In times of growth this wasn't a problem but now we find ourselves in a horrific state of debt.

The current Chancellor is a complete joke - when he changed the Capital gains Tax system this was a knee jerk decision and apparently had not been properly costed out and the Revenue were frantically trying to sort out the practicalities behind the scenes. He really doesn't know what he is doing and we need someone who can sort this mess out.

And for someone to say if you vote Tory then you cannot call yourself an animal lover - how dare you! I am an animal lover but I'm afraid the state of the economy is my first priority at this present time. What about all the animals being dumped at rescues or even worse on the streets because their owners can no longer afford to take care of them! This is due to the state of the economy and they are casualties of the decisions this Labour government have made.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

candyshandy said:


> The Bank of England now sets interest rates not the political party in power.


But the Bank of England can only react to the effects of the monetary policies of the party in power.



candyshandy said:


> I'm sorry but the Labour government have not handled this economic crisis at all well. The amount of debt we are in is partly down to their philosophy of spend now worry about it later, a philosophy they passed down to the younger generation of this country. In times of growth this wasn't a problem but now we find ourselves in a horrific state of debt.


I disagree - the current economic climate has been caused by Tory-type capitalism at its worst - ie banks selling sub-prime mortgages to people they knew couldn't afford them, whilst setting up a hedge fund to bet that the sub-prime mortgage shares would plummet. Brown has been commended world-wide for his actions in reducing the effects of that, both for this country and for the rest of the world. Without his policies, the recession would have been much worse.



candyshandy said:


> And for someone to say if you vote Tory then you cannot call yourself an animal lover - how dare you!


I dare because I think it is an atrocious and backwards step and I cannot understand why anyone would vote for a party who countenance this sort of cruelty.



candyshandy said:


> I am an animal lover but .


I am an animal lover. No buts.


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## candyshandy (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes the banks have caused this crisis, no arguments from me there but it is how this has been handled. IMO I honestly believe it has NOT been handled well. Why did we bail out the banks with no conditions that they should make more funds available for small businesses! My clients couldn't get hold of any funds (even short term) to ride out this mess.

And please do not part quote me - I do not appreciate you insinuating that I am not an animal lover.

I have no issue with how individuals have voted, it is their choice and quite rightly so but to attack people who have voted one way is out of order. We live in a democratic country.

I have previously voted Labour but I feel let down by them hence the review of all the other parties' policies.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Stephny691 said:


> My parents were relatively poor and lived through the Thatcher years and they still say that it was incredibly hard, but it was for the best of the country as a whole. Yes people lost jobs and had unimaginable harshness but that was for the best of the whole and future of the country??
> 
> Do they just not remember it correctly? Or are they the only people to think that way?
> 
> ...


*I lived through those years as well and the unrest in this country was far from a good thing.People not only lost their jobs but their homes too.Imo it wasn't for the best in the long or short term.Lets face it when the tories went out Labour came in and are still being blamed for the damage the tories did.
I've said it before, i was one of those that bought our council house and that i was pleased about.I wasn't however pleased with the fact the money never went to rebuilding new ones.I also remember no end of people just handing their keys back to their morgage companies because they couldn't afford them anymore.Now the bottom line is this, it was Maggie Thatcher that encouraged your everyday working class joe blog to start up new bussinesses and but their homes.But what did she do to help them when things went so bad?*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

candyshandy said:


> The Bank of England now sets interest rates not the political party in power.
> 
> My concern is that people have made decisions based on the past - all three parties are completely different from years ago. I decided to read in detail the manifestos to decide how I wanted to vote and my vote was based on that alone not on what has happened 20 years ago!!
> 
> ...


What a fantastic post..


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> My parents were relatively poor and lived through the Thatcher years and they still say that it was incredibly hard, but it was for the best of the country as a whole. Yes people lost jobs and had unimaginable harshness but that was for the best of the whole and future of the country?
> xx


With respect,
At the time of Thatcher's reign (because in her delusional state I firmly believe she thought she was queen) she was seen as a complete bitch by the most in England and a benevolent snow queen in the states. 
She deliberately set out to ruin the unions and her chosen nemesis at that time was Arthur Scargill. Between them they callously tore both the country and many, many families apart. Sons against fathers. Brothers against brothers. Staunch union members would terrorise the children of strike breakers and their wives. Entire families went hungry while Scargill got fat on the proceeds of union funds which failed to support the working man. I don't quite see how this could have been for the best of a nation? :confused1:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Zaros said:


> With respect,
> At the time of Thatcher's reign (because in her delusional state I firmly believe she thought she was queen) she was seen as a complete bitch by the most in England and a benevolent snow queen in the states.
> She deliberately set out to ruin the unions and her chosen nemesis at that time was Arthur Scargill. Between them they callously tore both the country and many, many families apart. Sons against fathers. Brothers against brothers. Staunch union members would terrorise the children of strike breakers and their wives. Entire families went hungry while Scargill got fat on the proceeds of union funds which failed to support the working man. I don't quite see how this could have been for the best of a nation? :confused1:


Must agree i fail to see what "greater good" came out of the Tory years 

Look at all the Privatisation they did , we still suffer the consequences of that now. If they get in i hope everyone is ready to start paying again :frown:


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I lived through those years as well and the unrest in this country was far from a good thing.People not only lost their jobs but their homes too.Imo it wasn't for the best in the long or short term.Lets face it when the tories went out Labour came in and are still being blamed for the damage the tories did.
> I've said it before, i was one of those that bought our council house and that i was pleased about.I wasn't however pleased with the fact the money never went to rebuilding new ones.I also remember no end of people just handing their keys back to their morgage companies because they couldn't afford them anymore.Now the bottom line is this, it was Maggie Thatcher that encouraged your everyday working class joe blog to start up new bussinesses and but their homes.But what did she do to help them when things went so bad?*


completely agree janice, we were a young family with 5 children who had not long purchased our first home i remember it like yesterday, the traumatic time of near enough losing our home will stay with me forever so very sad that many,many families did , we were one of the lucky ones and it was just that pure luck no thanks to the tories


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Labour/Lib hopefully!!!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

why did people have so many kids if they couldn't afford it?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> why did people have so many kids if they couldn't afford it?


It was contraception they couldn't afford hence the number of children!
What else was there to do whilst out of work? :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> why did people have so many kids if they couldn't afford it?


* Whats that got to do with anything?*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> why did people have so many kids if they couldn't afford it?


My parents could afford the kids. They struggled to afford living costs like the mortgage increasing. They lost all £11,000 worth of their savings, but I don't think the above is fair in most situations like that of my parents. They knew they could get by, it was just going to be difficult.

Plus, how can you expect people to predict what is going to happen and not get pregnant as a result :lol: There were always the promises of things will get better from our local MP, they consoled my Mum's friend many a time promising things were on the up and they weren't...


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> why did people have so many kids if they couldn't afford it?


perhaps they could have done if thatcher hadnt closed just about every public industry


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I think its looking like its going to be tories/libs..God help us if it is.*


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## serpentseye (Feb 20, 2010)

i really hope those tory gits don't win - bloodthirsty savages.
they are bringing back huntig just about everything in britain!


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## Inca's Mum (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm loving how it seems my future is buggered whichever way it goes.


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

nic101 said:


> torys and libs if any
> 
> would have prefered just conservatives bbut hey ho... lol
> 
> when do we find out? isit on now?


Completely agree with you.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Fancy a tory majority myself (not that I would ever vote for it), I'm hoping for another election come September time


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Tori :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

He's gone! It looks like he has quit!

Unless it's another Labour coup and they're planning a massive surprise announcement that they're staying on with Libs. LOL

Personally, I hope he's gone and that Labour are gone for a little while. Just long enough to start getting the debts paid off please. I'll take the pain as long as I know the debts being paid off.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Yeah bye bye Brown :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Bye bye Labour :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> It was contraception they couldn't afford hence the number of children!
> What else was there to do whilst out of work? :lol:


:lol: that's funny


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

willa said:


> Yeah bye bye Brown :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> Bye bye Labour :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


*Haha he hasn't gone yet. I wonder who will take his place,i think it will be one of the Milibands.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

willa said:


> Yeah bye bye Brown :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> Bye bye Labour :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


And hello to having all our money taxed away quickly  :thumbup:

Looking forward to the tories getting in haha!

I love Gordon Brown, I really do. I think he actually did a better job than Blair if you take the entirety of their terms into account. He's a good guy, just not a very good Prime Minister


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

Do you remember the good old Tory days when anyone who came into money could place the money in a bank account and live off the interest? 
This is where Gordon Brown did too good a job. He created low interest rates where the wealthy in this country could no longer sit back with their feet up and let the interest roll in.
Instead the Tories turned to the housing market to derive an income and they found the goose which laid the golden egg. Left unregulated these people (aided by banks, building societies, estate agents & the legal profession) who were already wealthy, having their own homes, cars, holidays, living lavish lifestyles created an auction which took the price of housing far and above what normal working people can afford. Tory landlords demand the maximum our wages can take. If suddenly the government gave all of us a hundred pound a week pay rise, it would make no difference, the Tory landlords would just take it.
These Tory driven house prices are the number one driving force for inflation and wages, and where is most of our wages going? Straight into the pockets of the already rich and wealthy.
Thats the Tories for you. They are steeling your money.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

YES YES YES YES YES BYE BROWN :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbup
::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::lol::lol::lol::lol:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

soooooooo happy lol :lol: :lol: He's gone he's gone he's gone :lol::lol::lol:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> Do you remember the good old Tory days when anyone who came into money could place the money in a bank account and live off the interest?
> This is where Gordon Brown did too good a job. He created low interest rates where the wealthy in this country could no longer sit back with their feet up and let the interest roll in.
> Instead the Tories turned to the housing market to derive an income and they found the goose which laid the golden egg. Left unregulated these people (aided by banks, building societies, estate agents & the legal profession) who were already wealthy, having their own homes, cars, holidays, living lavish lifestyles created an auction which took the price of housing far and above what normal working people can afford. Tory landlords demand the maximum our wages can take. If suddenly the government gave all of us a hundred pound a week pay rise, it would make no difference, the Tory landlords would just take it.
> These Tory driven house prices are the number one driving force for inflation and wages, and where is most of our wages going? Straight into the pockets of the already rich and wealthy.
> Thats the Tories for you. They are steeling your money.


Why shouldnt anyone that has worked hard for enough money to live off the interest, enjoy their holidays and their nice homes be allowed to, rather than lining the pockets of the voluntary un employed.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Why shouldnt anyone that has worked hard for enough money to live off the interest, enjoy their holidays and their nice homes be allowed to, rather than lining the pockets of the voluntary un employed.


Bloody well said.

I do think it was a bit sad though when he went. That last goodbye left me slightly choked.  Didn't think that would happen!!!

I'm surprised he didn't get an applause as he left in the car. Like him or not, he deserved a round of applause for doing the job.

I think I must be softening!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Bloody well said.
> 
> I do think it was a bit sad though when he went. That last goodbye left me slightly choked.  Didn't think that would happen!!!
> 
> ...


I think though, its because you know he's a good guy :thumbup: He's not meant to be Prime Minister and was more suited to being Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he had good intentions and I think is a pretty decent chap for the most part 

I missed that final goodbye, is there a link anywhere or should I stay away so that I don't bawl for half an hour?!


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

We're (the meer working class mortals) ****ed.

So gutted for Gordon Brown as well as all those who stand to suffer at the hands of a tory led government. Bad times.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Thats the Tories for you. They are steeling your money.


What a load of rubbish.



> Left unregulated these people (aided by banks, building societies, estate agents & the legal profession) who were already wealthy,


It was Labour that deregulated the banks that allowed this borrowing and lend to escalate which in turn over inflated property prices.

I'm not a Tory supporter, but this can't be laid at the door of the Tories. Labour was in bed with the City and their years of plenty were achieved by the bubble.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't think it's a matter of who will win simply because, in truth, one Party is as equally unreliable as the next and the only thing they are reliable for are lies. I believe it's more of a matter of who do you prefer to be screwed by?


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Why shouldnt anyone that has worked hard for enough money to live off the interest, enjoy their holidays and their nice homes be allowed to, rather than lining the pockets of the voluntary un employed.


The problem is most of you tories haven't worked hard for your money have you? Most of you don't know what a real day's work is.
You want to try working seven days a week in a very physically demanding job for peanuts. You tories live off the pain of others. You don't know what work is.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> I think though, its because you know he's a good guy :thumbup: He's not meant to be Prime Minister and was more suited to being Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he had good intentions and I think is a pretty decent chap for the most part
> 
> I missed that final goodbye, is there a link anywhere or should I stay away so that I don't bawl for half an hour?!


Well put it this way Tinsley, I'm very anti-Brown and it made me feel very sad. I think you will bawl when you see it (no doubt it will be on Youtube soon).

He said "Thankyou and Goodbye" sounding slightly choked, and then took his wife and children and walked off down Downing Street for the last time, where he got into a car and was driven off. It brought back memories of Thatcher's resignation...that was very sad too. 

I think I should state actually, I'm not anti-brown. He does seem like a nice person, and I'm sure I'd enjoy walking with him in the park while I walk Paddy. I think to sum it up, Gordon Brown for me is like your Grandad doing your decorating. He leaves a few bubbles in the wallpaper, drips your glosswork and takes a long time to do it, but no-one dare tell him because it would break his heart to discover that his skills aren't what they used to be. 

Let's hope Cameron is adept with a paintbrush!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Can i just point out that alot of people in this country are NEITHER wealthy NOR a layabout and it's those on middle income who stand to suffer.

There are plenty of people who work damn hard, pay taxes, do not claim benefits but don't have the luxury of savings.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Well put it this way Tinsley, I'm very anti-Brown and it made me feel very sad. I think you will bawl when you see it (no doubt it will be on Youtube soon).
> 
> He said "Thankyou and Goodbye" sounding slightly choked, and then took his wife and children and walked off down Downing Street for the last time, where he got into a car and was driven off. It brought back memories of Thatcher's resignation...that was very sad too.
> 
> ...


Oh that's him alright!! I like the analogy one of my friends gave to our tutor:

He's like a door nailed to a wall. He's still a door, but he just can't do his job!

I think that's what I liked about GB, he comes across as a genuinely decent chap who will do his very best, and to be honest I don't think he made too much of a hash of it, I think his previous exp as a chancellor stopped much damage being done, and that Blair would have received a larger hate campaign had he stayed in. I like the fact that he tried damn hard for what he thought was right 

People are apparently telling Cameron not to trust Clegg now...it wont ever end will it


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> The problem is most of you tories haven't worked hard for your money have you? Most of you don't know what a real day's work is.
> You want to try working seven days a week in a very physically demanding job for peanuts. You tories live off the pain of others. You don't know what work is.


Don't be so judgemental Paul.

I grew up on a council estate as the child of a single parent family on benefits. At 14 I was washing dishes in a restaurant for £1.40 an hour till 1AM and then going to school the next day.

I watched my mother sell our furniture in order to feed us from week to week and we never owned a new couch or carpet EVER. We lived in some sink estates and Christmas came from the Kays catalogue.

That's what made me a Tory.

My mother voted Labour all of her life and look where it got her.

I had to climb out of the gutter to get where I am now. It was done through hard work and sheer determination.

Neither the Tories nor Labour held me down. Only YOU hold yourself down.

Money is out there to be made, it's just waiting for you to go and claim it. That's my advice.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Aww what a nice but kind of sad photo for them, did the boys live at number 10 then? Bet they will miss the house if they did *has no idea*


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> The problem is most of you tories haven't worked hard for your money have you?


  

So most of 9 million people in this country live of inherited wealth do they 



> You want to try working seven days a week in a very physically demanding job for peanuts.


I have 



> You tories live off the pain of others. You don't know what work is.


What a shame that people's political views are based on prejudice and ingnorance


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> The problem is most of you tories haven't worked hard for your money have you? Most of you don't know what a real day's work is.
> You want to try working seven days a week in a very physically demanding job for peanuts. You tories live off the pain of others. You don't know what work is.


Ok ide just like to say i havnt voted for any, i was brought up conservative because my dad worked hard in the late 50's and 60's i was born in 1962 and until i was 18months my dad had only ever seen me asleep, because in those days there wasnt business loans like there is now every penny had to be earned he slept in a steel works on a girder for 2 years as he couldnt afford to do the job and get digs this was all to build up a steel company that eventually he was proud of he worked hard to build the life he had he did it for all of us my mum my brother and me, and yes he was successfull and we had a good life but it was the result of hard work and sacrifice. So dont tell me he didnt work for a living, he was still working ok inbetween hols and staying at home as my brother ran the company with others for him but this was when he was 69 years old.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Neither the Tories nor Labour held me down. Only YOU hold yourself down.


Well said and well done to you.



> The problem is most of you tories haven't worked hard for your money have you


The number of people able to live off wealth without working is probably less than those who spend their life on benefits never doing any work!


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Why did Brown involve his Children ? They'll be all over the papers tomorrow, i think that's just wrong.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh no I just saw his goodbye and cried! What a nice chap, it must be a truly rubbish job in that its so easy to be hated and even DC and NC are up at all hours, can't be any fun :nonod:

Bye bye Gordy B :crying:


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Don't be so judgemental Paul.
> 
> I grew up on a council estate as the child of a single parent family on benefits. At 14 I was washing dishes in a restaurant for £1.40 an hour till 1AM and then going to school the next day.
> 
> ...


very good advice.

paul - that was extremely judgemental. I work 3 permanent days a week. I do uni 4 days a week. I study - im also trying to start up a business. Im 21 and know what i want out of life

so yeah i know what hard work is. Were not all, lazy!, most people on this board do an honest days living. so dont generalise.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Tinsley said:


> Oh no I just saw his goodbye and cried! What a nice chap, it must be a truly rubbish job in that its so easy to be hated and even DC and NC are up at all hours, can't be any fun :nonod:
> 
> Bye bye Gordy B :crying:


Hello Cameron :thumbup::thumbup:


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

can anyone link me?? i d like to see his good bye?? lol

need a months worth of fumigation to get rid&#65279; of the stench of bullsh*t outa number 10 :lol:

(not my words - copied !) still good though pure sums it up :lol:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Ah Well.........lets be honest...there won't be much difference in who ever is in charged..The working class always suffer...Taxed to high heaven and get nothing back in return

juliex


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Cameron will be the youngest Prime Minister in 200 years !!!


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> Ah Well.........lets be honest...there won't be much difference in who ever is in charged..The working class always suffer...Taxed to high heaven and get nothing back in return
> 
> juliex


but to be fair though if people want better for themselves - they can!

hence what im doing! i didnt do very well at school (was never in i hated it)... college i walked out of (twice  ) and then at uni and love it....

I have worked everyday since i was 16 (as well as college) and realised now i dont want to be stuck in a dead end job for the rest of my life so im changing all that.

but for gods sake dont ask me what i want to be when i grow up :lol: i just know that with the degreei will get i will get a good job.... but what i _want_ to do is anothe rmatter...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

It's a sad day for England - and I'll give it about 6 months before the Tory voters are on here wailing about the fact that they've lost their jobs, that there are no jobs to be had, that they're being taxed to high heaven, that the interest rate on their mortgage means they can't afford to pay their mortgage anymore and they are going to lose their house, that high interest rates mean they can't afford to buy a house, that rich fat cats are getting huge pay increases, that they can't get treatment for their cancer because the Tories have done away with the "have to be seen by a specialist within 2 weeks rule" .............. just wait and see!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

nic101 said:


> but to be fair though if people want better for themselves - they can!
> 
> hence what im doing! i didnt do very well at school (was never in i hated it)... college i walked out of (twice  ) and then at uni and love it....
> 
> ...


Of course you can better yourself and good on you for trying...hope you do well

The more you earn the more they take off you... whoever is in charge it will be just the same


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

Well you can't blame them for all the staff that are being cut from hospitals, as that started before the elections even began. 

Whoever is in charge will be blamed for whatever happens. Just the way it goes.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> It's a sad day for England - and I'll give it about 6 months before the Tory voters are on here wailing about the fact that they've lost their jobs, that there are no jobs to be had, that they're being taxed to high heaven, that the interest rate on their mortgage means they can't afford to pay their mortgage anymore and they are going to lose their house, that high interest rates mean they can't afford to buy a house, that rich fat cats are getting huge pay increases, that they can't get treatment for their cancer because the Tories have done away with the "have to be seen by a specialist within 2 weeks rule" .............. just wait and see!


I agree with you.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> Of course you can better yourself and good on you for trying...hope you do well
> 
> The more you earn the more they take off you... whoever is in charge it will be just the same


thanks and absollutey - all the MP's are full of sh1t.... but i think tories are the best of a bad bunch. Just needed to see labour go

i think i will stand next time 

p.s has anyone got the vid of Brown???? leavingggggggg ?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

We are screw      Wait for the tax credit cuts


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

nic101 said:


> thanks and absollutey - all the MP's are full of sh1t.... but i think tories are the best of a bad bunch. Just needed to see labour go
> 
> i think i will stand next time
> 
> p.s has anyone got the vid of Brown???? leavingggggggg ?


BBC News homepage


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> We are screw      Wait for the tax credit cuts


Don't get me started on Tax credits ......lol..

as someone said last week "If you thought the last 13 years were bad, remember what the previous years to that were like"

juliex


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> Don't get me started on Tax credits ......lol..
> 
> as someone said last week "If you thought the last 13 years were bad, remember what the previous years to that were like"
> 
> juliex


I wonder how many people will have to stop work if they stop/cut tax credits  tories will only look after the rich


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I wonder how many people will have to stop work if they stop/cut tax credits  tories will only look after the rich


you mean the farmers? :lol:

I better get on the hunt for a rich man then


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> It's a sad day for England - and I'll give it about 6 months before the Tory voters are on here wailing about the fact that they've lost their jobs, that there are no jobs to be had, that they're being taxed to high heaven, that the interest rate on their mortgage means they can't afford to pay their mortgage anymore and they are going to lose their house, that high interest rates mean they can't afford to buy a house, that rich fat cats are getting huge pay increases, that they can't get treatment for their cancer because the Tories have done away with the "have to be seen by a specialist within 2 weeks rule" .............. just wait and see!


I didnt vote at all, if someone could tell me that they would definetly get rid of all the scroungers british or otherwise, look after the workers in this country then they would get my vote, dont think thats going to happen tho is it. All i can say about the conservatives was that i was brought up conservative and had a good up bringing so they must have been the right party in power for my parents position at the time.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> It's a sad day for England - and I'll give it about 6 months before the Tory voters are on here wailing about the fact that they've lost their jobs, that there are no jobs to be had, that they're being taxed to high heaven, that the interest rate on their mortgage means they can't afford to pay their mortgage anymore and they are going to lose their house, that high interest rates mean they can't afford to buy a house, that rich fat cats are getting huge pay increases, that they can't get treatment for their cancer because the Tories have done away with the "have to be seen by a specialist within 2 weeks rule" .............. just wait and see!


it's like that already


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I'm off to have a bottle of wine to drown my sorrows goodnight :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

I personally am so happy Cameron is now PM :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Lets just hope the Lib Dems can limit the damage for the ordinary people  Doubt it though, i can see the arrogance of the Tories just brushing them aside. 

The press are going to have a field day over the next few months.

Oh and on the subject of improving yourself you can have a chat with all the UNEMPLOYED people who worked hard at Uni to get a degree so they could get a good job.

It's all very well banging on about "bettering your lot" and i agree but the reality is not quite as rosy as some of you paint it.

How long would any of us really last if the main breadwinner in the household lost their job ??? Not everyone can be self employed you need "workers" and Redundancy can happen to anyone so any one of us (unless you are one of the priviledged few) could end up being a "sponger" in a pretty short space of time.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.

Personally, I am made up!

People used to be hopeful in this country. They got through bombs, war and blitzes. 

Nowadays, it seems like everyone just expects the worst. Take a look at this thread for instance!

Hopefully we'll see attitudes revert to positivity again over the coming years!

Let David Cameron be an inspiration to us all. 10 years ago he wasn't even an MP. Today he is Primeminister. Look at what you can achieve when you put your mind to it instead of blaming everyone else for your misfortune!


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.
> 
> Personally, I am made up!
> 
> ...


HEAR HEAR! :thumbup:


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.
> 
> Personally, I am made up!
> 
> ...


i agree. even though i like labour, i'm happy things are changing. i'm looking forward to see what David cameron and his government come up with. its the start of a new era today.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.
> 
> Personally, I am made up!
> 
> ...


I clearly missed the documentary then about Cameron having a poor, underprivilidged background and clawing his way to the top 

I don't blame anyone else for my misfortunes, i am not unfortunate i have a reasonably good standard of living and I have wealth in so many more ways than money would give me BUT what i do have is a social conscience 

There but for the grace of God Mr Classix.

Person very close to me thought she was made for life, married to a wealthy man, very very good job herself, all the trappings. She is currently facing divorce and has just had a diagnosis of early onset Parkinsons which will mean she will become unable to work. She may well have to rely on some sort of help. Do you begrudge her that ? , what would your advice be to her to "better herself" ????


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## Inca's Mum (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm quite happy. Not sure if I should be or not, but I know the conservative party in my area are good, we all seem to think so! One of my friends dad's is in the party and she's met the main guy loads of times, so you know. But what kind of name is Guy Opperman :laugh:


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## LadyLoraella (May 3, 2010)

I am so gutted.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i agree. even though i like labour, i'm happy things are changing. i'm looking forward to see what David cameron and his government come up with. its the start of a new era today.


Your attitude needs to be taken by everybody now, theres nothing anyone can do about whatever happens but in the meantime be positive so many are judging the tories on years ago we need to give them a chance.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Your attitude needs to be taken by everybody now, theres nothing anyone can do about whatever happens but in the meantime be positive so many are judging the tories on years ago we need to give them a chance.


I agree, we need change and they do need a chance but I still dont believe they are for the working people. I cant see how many families will cope with Tax Credit cuts, I know we wont.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I clearly missed the documentary then about Cameron having a poor, underprivilidged background and clawing his way to the top
> 
> He wasn't born an MP and it's votes that get you into Downing Street. His climb was as hard as anyone elses.
> 
> ...


In answer to your question, if she hasn't saved enough money to be treated privately whilst she was married to a wealthy man and in a very very good job herself, then she needn't fear as we have the NHS which is free for all.

I don't begrudge anyone having anything. I think you are mistaking my posts for those posted by others, who seem to have a problem with 'rich people' having all the houses, the money and the privileges. I think they call that 'reverse snobbery' and it's just as unpalatable as the very thing it is in reaction to.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree, we need change and they do need a chance but I still dont believe they are for the working people. I cant see how many families will cope with Tax Credit cuts, I know we wont.


Lots of people are going to be hit hard, does this mean the childcare element will go too ??

That is going to be a disaster :frown: I have just taken on 2 children and their parents won't be able to afford me without tax credits which means Mum can't work and i will lose out too which means we will really struggle :frown:


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Oh and on the subject of improving yourself you can have a chat with all the UNEMPLOYED people who worked hard at Uni to get a degree so they could get a good job.


But this happened under Labour  My own son was one of them - coming out of uni last year with a Masters Degree.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Lots of people are going to be hit hard, does this mean the childcare element will go too ??
> 
> That is going to be a disaster :frown: I have just taken on 2 children and their parents won't be able to afford me without tax credits which means Mum can't work and i will lose out too which means we will really struggle :frown:


Mine go to nursery and I wont afford child care with out the child care element but I cant afford not to work :frown: It will be horrible if it happens I dont know what we will do


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## candyshandy (Dec 10, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Lots of people are going to be hit hard, does this mean the childcare element will go too ??
> 
> That is going to be a disaster :frown: I have just taken on 2 children and their parents won't be able to afford me without tax credits which means Mum can't work and i will lose out too which means we will really struggle :frown:


I can't see where it said that tax credits would be cut for those that need it. There was mention of cuts for higher earners (and quite right) which was something both the Conservatives and Lib Dems wanted. The Conservatives stated it would be cut for those earning over £50k in the manifesto.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> In answer to your question, if she hasn't saved enough money to be treated privately whilst she was married to a wealthy man and in a very very good job herself, then she needn't fear as we have the NHS which is free for all.
> 
> I don't begrudge anyone having anything. I think you are mistaking my posts for those posted by others, who seem to have a problem with 'rich people' having all the houses, the money and the privileges. I think they call that 'reverse snobbery' and it's just as unpalatable as the very thing it is in reaction to.


Of course her medical care is coverred by the NHS but her "lifestyle" isn't, i was making the point that stuff can happen in life to reverse your fortunes, stuff you have no control over, is it fair to label people like that "spongers" (not saying you did but some have on this thread)

I have no issue with people having money i have an issue with people who don't have money being squeezed the hardest


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree, we need change and they do need a chance but I still dont believe they are for the working people. I cant see how many families will cope with Tax Credit cuts, I know we wont.


we wont cope, and to be honest it scares the hell out of me


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

what is tax credit cuts?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

candyshandy said:


> I can't see where it said that tax credits would be cut for those that need it. There was mention of cuts for higher earners (and quite right) which was something both the Conservatives and Lib Dems wanted. The Conservatives stated it would be cut for those earning over £50k in the manifesto.


But why is it right that higher earners do not get these tax credits... My husband decided to try and better himself ... Which he did ...then they stop your tax credits...


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Of course her medical care is coverred by the NHS but her "lifestyle" isn't, i was making the point that stuff can happen in life to reverse your fortunes, stuff you have no control over, is it fair to label people like that "spongers" (not saying you did but some have on this thread)
> 
> I have no issue with people having money i have an issue with people who don't have money being squeezed the hardest


My defintion of a sponger is the ones claiming benefits that have no intention of working, have never worked not people like you friend that has no choice as i always say they are the ones that have put money into the pot and indirectly are only taking their own money back now its needed.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> But this happened under Labour  My own son was one of them - coming out of uni last year with a Masters Degree.


I am not a Labour supporter either 



candyshandy said:


> I can't see where it said that tax credits would be cut for those that need it. There was mention of cuts for higher earners (and quite right) which was something both the Conservatives and Lib Dems wanted. The Conservatives stated it would be cut for those earning over £50k in the manifesto.


I thought it was lower than that. The lib Dems would have offset it for some though with their raising of the tax threshold to 10k. I supported the Lib Dem idea because from what i read i would have lost my tax credits but gained in the end because i earn less than 10k :


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> But why is it right that higher earners do not get these tax credits... My husband decided to try and better himself ... Which he did ...then they stop your tax credits...


Because its about 'need'. Higher earns do not need that money to get by, lower earning families do need it as they do struggle


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

My OH has just left the army following 12 years of service and quite frankly protecting the butts (inc David Cameron's) of this country. He is currently awaiting the outcome of a recent job interview which, should this prove unfavourable, leave us quite royally screwed. Yes either one of us could take on a low paid unskilled job but if tax credits are cut/ disappear it's not going to provide us with a viable means of living even in the short term.

A tory government couldn't have come along at a worse time and I don't trust Cameron so far as I could spit. They've already changed policies to kiss the libs ass so I wonder what other reforms they have up their sleeves to claw back the pennies forsaken in this deadly partnership with the lib dems?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> what is tax credit cuts?


Tax credits are given to families on lower incomes, the less you earn the more you receive. One element also covers a significant % of childcare costs for those on less than 20k (i think it's 20K)



haeveymolly said:


> My defintion of a sponger is the ones claiming benefits that have no intention of working, have never worked not people like you friend that has no choice as i always say they are the ones that have put money into the pot and indirectly are only taking their own money back now its needed.


It just seems when people talk about those on benefits they class them all as spongers.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I don't begrudge anyone having anything. I think you are mistaking my posts for those posted by others, who seem to have a problem with 'rich people' having all the houses, the money and the privileges. I think they call that 'reverse snobbery' and it's just as unpalatable as the very thing it is in reaction to.


What I have a problem with is the rich people who do have all the priviledges that go with their wealth are now going to be made richer and even more priviledged at the expense of the poorer members of society. Only a couple of hours into Tory rule and you can already see the effects from some posters on here, worried about their tax credits being stopped. That's not reverse snobbery - that's called caring for your fellow human beings rather than caring about lining your own pocket and to hell with the rest.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Of course her medical care is coverred by the NHS but her "lifestyle" isn't, i was making the point that stuff can happen in life to reverse your fortunes, stuff you have no control over, is it fair to label people like that "spongers" (_*not saying you did but some have on this thread*_)
> 
> I have no issue with people having money i have an issue with people who don't have money being squeezed the hardest


(I formatted a bit of your post in bold so that mine makes sense.  )

Thanks for clearing that up.

I wouldn't label anyone who is trying to better themselves as a sponger!

But I hate it when people blame everyone else, and everything else, for their predicament and never take on responsibility for themselves.

EDIT: Off to walk the dog!! Back soon


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

seriously, there is nothing anyone can do about the situation now. maybe people should have voted better in the election and then maybe people wouldn't be so worried now. 

you have no idea exactly what polices will get in or how they will effect each and everyone of you, so wait until they make the polices and then you can worry about it then.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Tax credits are given to families on lower incomes, the less you earn the more you receive. One element also covers a significant % of childcare costs for those on less than 20k (i think it's 20K)
> 
> It just seems when people talk about those on benefits they class them all as spongers.


Yes i know it does, i think the genuine people are i the minority though and i dont think the job situation is as bad as its made out its just that many people wont take anything they have to have the ideal job, if the ammount of benefits wasnt available they would have to take a job,any job to survive.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


classixuk said:



Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.

Personally, I am made up!

People used to be hopeful in this country. They got through bombs, war and blitzes. 

Nowadays, it seems like everyone just expects the worst. Take a look at this thread for instance!

Hopefully we'll see attitudes revert to positivity again over the coming years!

Let David Cameron be an inspiration to us all. 10 years ago he wasn't even an MP. Today he is Primeminister. Look at what you can achieve when you put your mind to it instead of blaming everyone else for your misfortune!



Click to expand...

Now there you are talking about when we still thought Britain was great,and that great british spirit still existed.Those days have long gone and i fear will never return.The strange thing about that is, we had so little then but what we did have we were willing to share and we valued the simple things in life.
For anyone that didn't live through the thatcher years i fear we are all just about to go down that road again.I would hate to be a youngster in todays britain.
As for Gordon Brown, i take my hat of to him.He conducted his departure like a true gent.
I think Cameron and Cleg have led the country a right merry dance the last few days with all their bullsh*t, and that was just before becomeing the new PM..lol there will be more to come..By the truck load.*


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> seriously, there is nothing anyone can do about the situation now. maybe people should have voted better in the election and then maybe people wouldn't be so worried now.
> 
> *you have no idea exactly what polices will get in or how they will effect each and everyone of you, so wait until they make the polices and then you can worry about it then*.


Im not being rude but that is very easy for you to say when you are not worrying about working with 2 children under 4 years old and the possibility of things changing in a way that you can not afford it too!


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Yes i know it does, i think the genuine people are i the minority though and i dont think the job situation is as bad as its made out its just that many people wont take anything they have to have the ideal job, if the ammount of benefits wasnt available they would have to take a job,any job to survive.


The trouble is that if the tories start chipping away at the tax credits system (call it a hunch but I strongly suspect they will) then 'any job' still won't provide a viable means of living.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> What I have a problem with is the rich people who do have all the priviledges that go with their wealth are now going to be made richer and even more priviledged at the expense of the poorer members of society. Only a couple of hours into Tory rule and you can already see the effects from some posters on here, worried about their tax credits being stopped. That's not reverse snobbery - that's called caring for your fellow human beings rather than caring about lining your own pocket and to hell with the rest.


We have to see both sides of this if anyone of us had worked hard for years to gain the wealth that calls them "rich people" then we would feel worthy of some priviledges, why should all these people that dont work because they wont work get all the priviledges i really do hope the new party wakes up to all this and sorts out all the layabouts. Why all this rob the rich to give to the scroungers.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> We have to see both sides of this if anyone of us had worked hard for years to gain the wealth that calls them "rich people" then we would feel worthy of some priviledges, why should all these people that dont work because they wont work get all the priviledges i really do hope the new party wakes up to all this and sorts out all the layabouts. Why all this rob the rich to give to the scroungers.


I agree sort all the lay abouts out but not everyone who claims benefits are scroungers and are rightly worried about how they will be affected. I dont understand why wealthy people should get priviledges in the way of tex credits ect as they dont 'need' them


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> We have to see both sides of this if anyone of us had worked hard for years to gain the wealth that calls them "rich people" then we would feel worthy of some priviledges, why should all these people that dont work because they wont work get all the priviledges i really do hope the new party wakes up to all this and sorts out all the layabouts. Why all this rob the rich to give to the scroungers.


There are a hell of a lot of hard working people who are not scroungers and yet who need help from the system. Classifying all people who receive benefits as scroungers and begrudging them their benefits is a typical Tory ploy.

I am fortunate in that I have never been out of work since I left uni - but I do not begrudge paying benefits to those who need them. There but for the grace of God ..........


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Baby British said:


> The trouble is that if the tories start chipping away at the tax credits system (call it a hunch but I strongly suspect they will) then 'any job' still won't provide a viable means of living.


Then i would like to see the cash injected into better wages.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> There are a hell of a lot of hard working people who are not scroungers and yet who need help from the system. Classifying all people who receive benefits as scroungers and begrudging them their benefits is a typical Tory ploy.
> 
> I am fortunate in that I have never been out of work since I left uni - but I do not begrudge paying benefits to those who need them. There but for the grace of God ..........


I actually cleared this up earlier i certainly do not class all people on benefits as scroungers, scroungers in my eyes are the people that have never worked and have no intention of working and lets face it there are a lot of them around,


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> We have to see both sides of this if anyone of us had worked hard for years to gain the wealth that calls them "rich people" then we would feel worthy of some priviledges, why should all these people that dont work because they wont work get all the priviledges i really do hope the new party wakes up to all this and sorts out all the layabouts. Why all this rob the rich to give to the scroungers.


But its not robbing the rich to give to the "scroungers" :

It's taking money from those who can afford it to help out those on lower incomes.

Look at the tax credits that are being discussed here. People who get tax credits aren't scroungers, they are good honest hard working families trying to get by in life, why squeeze them harder so Mr Multi Millionaire can have a new pad in the South of France :

Think i need some light relief i am off to watch Shameless, see how the other half live :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I'm not going to be popular for saying this but thats nothing new lol.If i had my way i'd like to see an end to all these things like tax credits and the £250 each child gets.I would sooner see a higher min. wage.*


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I work 4 days a week, My children go to nursery 2 days a week, it costs me £160and I can assure you that if I didnt get help i would be better off sat at home being a scrounger as it wouldnt be worth me going to work! Soon the kids might have to go nursery 4 days a week and if I dont get any child care element tax credit I cant afford to work!!!!

Who can afford to pay £640 a month when working 4 days a week  
Im all for stopping people scrounging but not everyone in reciept of benefit is a scrounger and are rightly worried about whats to come.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> But its not robbing the rich to give to the "scroungers" :
> 
> It's taking money from those who can afford it to help out those on lower incomes.
> 
> ...


The priveledges ime thinking of for the richer are the money that they have invested/saved and then the interest rate change that happened not so long ago saw all the money go.Its not all doom and gloom for the less wealthy,we have to see other side.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Then i would like to see the cash injected into better wages.


I'd like to see lots of things but I suspect the money will go toward alleged reduction of the 'financial deficit'

Gordon Brown was spot on when saying about the financial recovery being fragile and immediate cuts putting the whole thing in jeopardy. People are gonna either be too afraid or just blatantly unable to spend and our economy will head for melt down.

It's gonna be interested to see the ftse's take on events when markets reopen and how it reacts as events unfold in coming months. I just can't see the light anywhere in all of this


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

hmmm looks like i may be fooked then!

Trying to better myself

just finished one college course - stage 1
starting 2nd course in september - stage 2
2 years later starting uni - stage 3
all for a career in the NHS!!

Oh... and a single parent with a special needs child too....

guess i ought to put the kids up for adoption now and slit my wrists!

Solve a number of problems!!! Children available for adoption, so shortening the waiting times. Children being raised by a "classic family" (my kids still have a 2 parent family, the parents just dont live together), no taxes being "wasted" on benefits, and one less single mum... perfect!

If things go the way they appear to be heading then its seriously going to make things even harder to get and claw myself out of this situation i find myself in. I didnt ask to be a single mum, it wasnt part of the plan, i detest being on benefits which is why i am trying to better myself with a worthwhile career which can support my children and get me off benefits forever. I couldnt afford to go back to my old career and get out of the benefit system.

Without tax credits i cannot study, their plans for doubling tuition fees are going to put paid to that. In all honesty its already going to be difficult, if they cut tax credits and put up the fees its going to be near on impossible.

Any suggestions as to what else i should be doing? Perhaps i should be working in a dead end job somewhere and live off side benefits forever!

Just want to clear something up too. I have seen quite alot of posts lately about the amount of single mums who have kids just to live off benefits. When their child reaches 7, many of their benefits will also stop, FORCING THEM TO WORK... which is what i keep hearing bleated all over the place. Its already been put in place... by a labour gvt! 

Guess i'm just another sponger though after reading the last few threads over the last few weeks. I'll just crawl back under my rock.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

just hope they will not give us to SPAIN, just because Rock outlived its military uses (or not - think islam terrorist - it is a swimming distance from a muslim state)...sorry that Brown paid for mistakes of his predecessor, he was not the worst guy for hard times...but changes have their merits...I could not vote - although British - residents of Gibraltar could not vote -we here have no say and our future is decided in London...at least u guys had your say...


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm not going to be popular for saying this but thats nothing new lol.If i had my way i'd like to see an end to all these things like tax credits and the £250 each child gets.I would sooner see a higher min. wage.*


i disagree the £250 my daughter got HAS to go into a savings acount which she cant get into till shes 18! tax credits is alot to me at the moment with my oh losing his job we r on my wage and rely on tax credits!...it will be a disastar!! i know for a fact it will many people will go into debt...people will lose their houses coz they cant aford their rent and council tax....disastar...this is why i didnt vote simply because we have a right to vote but our votes never count to be quite honest...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Baby British said:


> I'd like to see lots of things but I suspect the money will go toward alleged reduction of the 'financial deficit'
> 
> Gordon Brown was spot on when saying about the financial recovery being fragile and immediate cuts putting the whole thing in jeopardy. People are gonna either be too afraid or just blatantly unable to spend and our economy will head for melt down.
> 
> It's gonna be interested to see the ftse's take on events when markets reopen and how it reacts as events unfold in coming months. I just can't see the light anywhere in all of this


Spot on! Agree totally.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm not going to be popular for saying this but thats nothing new lol.If i had my way i'd like to see an end to all these things like tax credits and the £250 each child gets.I would sooner see a higher min. wage.*


Well we will be unpopular together then because that was my reply to one post. Oh well never mind.

A friend of mines daughter has just gone back to work for £80 a month less after having her baby, now where is that right that there is so much money available, not many would do that what a temptation to stay at home everyday. I also know someone that cant afford to go back to work after maternity leave, with child care costs of nearly £400 per month she would be working for just under £300 per month, tax credits are paying her £500 per month, where is the insentive to get young mums back to work.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Only a couple of hours into Tory rule and you can already see the effects from some posters on here, worried about their tax credits being stopped


But that is perception not reality. I'm not aware of anything in the Tory manifesto that said it was cutting working tax credits although the manifestos are now irrelevant as we have to wait to see what new policies a coalition will bring.

Cuts are necessary regardless. The Labour government has been borrowing and spending over what the country can afford. Much of that has been for the good, much as been wasted. The state of this country necessitates some cuts (and these would have happened under Labour anyway - whatever they say - I met someone in Feb who works in the Foreign Office and was told then that they had to cut the workforce by 50% over the next two years - that was long before the election and under Labour rule).

Make no mistake the real hardships will come as a result of the economic distaster this country is in - regardless of what party is in power - has no one been watching what is happening in Greece, Spain etc. And despite being a socialist at heart, I cannot see how Labour could continue trying to borrow and spend its way out of this recession.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Baby British said:


> I'd like to see lots of things but I suspect the money will go toward alleged reduction of the 'financial deficit'
> 
> Gordon Brown was spot on when saying about the financial recovery being fragile and immediate cuts putting the whole thing in jeopardy. People are gonna either be too afraid or just blatantly unable to spend and our economy will head for melt down.
> 
> It's gonna be interested to see the ftse's take on events when markets reopen and how it reacts as events unfold in coming months. I just can't see the light anywhere in all of this


completly agree i will be one of those familys wheres times will get hard...im finding it hard now with oh not working...he cant find a job and has been unemployed for 3 months now....there are no jobs...sorry if anyone is offended by this but where i live we have loadz of foriegners sp? which take up all the jobs and will be paid less so are more likely to be taken on (hard workers but paid less)...my life would be a downward spiral if all this goes ahead!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Well we will be unpopular together then because that was my reply to one post. Oh well never mind.
> 
> A friend of mines daughter has just gone back to work for £80 a month less after having her baby, now where is that right that there is so much money available, not many would do that what a temptation to stay at home everyday. I also know someone that cant afford to go back to work after maternity leave, with child care costs of nearly £400 per month she would be working for just under £300 per month, tax credits are paying her £500 per month, where is the insentive to get young mums back to work.


*Perhaps we now live in an age where mums should stay at home and raise their kids if they can't afford childcare.I can't help wondering how us oldies managed.
ps. oldie as in myself nobody else. lol*


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Perhaps we now live in an age where mums should stay at home and raise their kids if they can't afford childcare.I can't help wondering how us oldies managed.
> ps. oldie as in myself nobody else. lol*


And I would love nothing more than to stay at home and look after my children but I CANT afford to as the OH wage doesnt cover all the bills!!!!! I think you oldies  Managed because a man earned a mans wage which often isnt the case now days, the minium wage is so slow.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Cuts are necessary regardless.
> 
> Make no mistake the real hardships will come as a result of the economic distaster this country is in - regardless of what party is in power


Yes, but it is where the cuts come that is important - and under the Tories you can bet your last quid that those who can actually afford cuts won't be any worse off - rather, those members of society who most need support will find their support cut.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Perhaps we now live in an age where mums should stay at home and raise their kids if they can't afford childcare.I can't help wondering how us oldies managed.
> ps. oldie as in myself nobody else. lol*


Well i didnt go to work when mine was young and that was my decision and i never got a penny as there were no such thing as tax credits or anything for being a stay at home mum which there was more of in those days, when we got our first house we got it on 1 wage as we knew one day there would be children and my wage would be gone. Ime not going back that far either 25yrs since we got our first home and my children are now 19 and 23, but there has been a lot of changes in that reletively short time.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Well i didnt go to work when mine was young and that was my decision and i never got a penny as there were no such thing as tax credits or anything for being a stay at home mum which there was more of in those days, when we got our first house we got it on 1 wage as we knew one day there would be children and my wage would be gone. Ime not going back that far either 25yrs since we got our first home and my children are now 19 and 23, but there has been a lot of changes in that reletively short time.


im confused i wouldnt get tax credits unless i was workin?...my point being if i stayed at home i would be on job seekers...well OH would be which would be asked to support me my oh and daughter on £110 every 2 weeks?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> im confused i wouldnt get tax credits unless i was workin?


Working tax credit and a childcare element are for employed

we dont qualify for working tax credit as we earn over the amount but we get some help with paying for child care


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

yeh thats what i thought....just that HM said "i never got a penny as there were no such thing as tax credits or anything for being a stay at home mum which there was more of in those days" ... got confused


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Well i didnt go to work when mine was young and that was my decision and i never got a penny as there were no such thing as tax credits or anything for being a stay at home mum which there was more of in those days, when we got our first house we got it on 1 wage as we knew one day there would be children and my wage would be gone. Ime not going back that far either 25yrs since we got our first home and my children are now 19 and 23, but there has been a lot of changes in that reletively short time.


*But i bet you appreciated things more than the youngsters of today.When my kids where very young i was either at home or took them to work with me.We didn't have everything new like they do now, we saved for what we wanted.I truely believe some not all expect everything now because thats the society we now live in.And when they can't have it they think they are hard done by.*


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

So now we're in a tory/lib dem government. I wonder how it will be


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Absolutely, but the difference is that the Tories don't have an overall majority. Of all the Tory leaders of recent times, I think Cameron is the one that could keep the hard liners in check. Hopefully, the involvement of the Lib Dems will also put the typical Tory of old in check. We don't know yet exactly what policies have been negotiated, and we still await the Lib Dems outcome. I'm a socialist at heart, but I do not believe this country would fare well if a Labour party had kept power. Labour inherited a health economy. They spent like there was no tomorrow, they created the banking crisis which plunged this country into recession because they were enjoying the income it brought, and we are now paying the price.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

sequeena said:


> So now we're in a tory/lib dem government. I wonder how it will be


a disastar lol!! x


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

child tax credit is available to all familys with children (i think it might be capped over a certain income though). Its income based, so the less you earn the more you get. Yes it is available to single parents, stay at home parents and working parents.

Working tax credit is available to everyone on a low income. If you are on a low wage but work full time you can apply. If you have children and work at least part time you can apply. If you have children and work at least part time and have to pay a childcare provider, you can apply for the childcare element.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> child tax credit is available to all familys with children (i think it might be capped over a certain income though). Its income based, so the less you earn the more you get. Yes it is available to single parents, stay at home parents and working parents.
> 
> Working tax credit is available to everyone on a low income. If you are on a low wage but work full time you can apply. If you have children and work at least part time you can apply. If you have children and work at least part time and have to pay a childcare provider, you can apply for the childcare element.


Well explained 

We get the childcare element and it helps massively :thumbup: as it does for quite a few people I work with


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Well explained
> 
> We get the childcare element and it helps massively :thumbup: as it does for quite a few people I work with


*
What is the childcare element? *
lol ignore i just saw the post. lol


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> What is the childcare element? *


I get a percentage of what it cost me in nursery fees back in a tax credit


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Why is it like people losing their houses is new? Like unemployment is new? It's not! It never has been! 
No government, no matter how perfect, could have gotten into power and fixed it. None of them and actually I'm beginning to think expecting them to, is asking too much. The state everything is in atm, the best -any- party could do is to make the best of a bad situation. 

And Clegg? That man was ready to jump ship on the Tories the second there was a chance of his party getting more of their own way. He's no better than any of them, no matter what he says. There is no miracle governing party, that are 'for the people' and 'honest' and will fix everything. The country has -no money-, there are millions of people out of work for one reason or the other. We buy in more stuff the we export, basically we spend more (as a country) than we're bringing in, if the country were a business we would have gone into liquidation by now.

Hopefully, the lib/tory alliance will do -some- good and then we can have another election by the end of the year and people can judge by whats happened since.
It was time for change, whether Tory is going to be a good change, it's up to us to see and judge, and up to them to prove they arn't the same tories and that peoples apprehensions were wrong.

They are the government -they- have to prove to -us- that they can do it. Otherwise we won't be voting for them again. But we needed change.

And a Tory/Lib dem coalition- is most definately change, who'd have thought ay? 
xx


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

Nick Clegg confirmed as deputy prime minister? Urgh! I wonder how big a part that played in him getting into bed with Cameron. It's sure as hell gonna be a long time before another Liberal gets a title containing the words 'prime minister' after Cleggs ousted albeit at the end of a bleeding fixed term parliament. The whole thing makes me feel sick and my vote seems to count for Jack


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Sold his soul to the devil .... I will give it six months ....


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Good post Stephny



> The whole thing makes me feel sick and my vote seems to count for Jack


Your vote (for whoever it was) counts the same as anyone else's, however, if the party you voted for didn't get in, then it's simply that not enough people shared your view.



> I will give it six months ....


I think you may be right, but I hope not. Now Brown has gone, I cannot see the Labour getting their act together in six months. I suspect a different Labour party will emerge from all this too, but it will take more than six months.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Well, that was great! Poor dog never got walked though. LOL He's already hating the Cam for that.
> 
> Personally, I am made up!
> 
> ...


i agree!!

i also said before to my mate - i hope child tax credits do get cut - children are a priveledg - not a right

you cant afford em - dont have them - condoms are free at the health clinic.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> Good post Stephny
> 
> Your vote (for whoever it was) counts the same as anyone else's, however, if the party you voted for didn't get in, then it's simply that not enough people shared your view.


Nobody 'got in' on the votes cast by the general public. Not enough people shared the tory view equally. Only seedy deals have secured the current parliamentary hash that doesn't actually reflect the opinions of the common man. Hello - Nick Clegg as deputy prime minister?! His party lost in spectacular fashion!! Over half the country DIDN'T vote for Cameron either and yet he's weaseled into number 10.

Contrary to your opinion I don't believe my vote did count and equally I DO believe that plenty of people share my view tonight.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

nic101 said:


> i agree!!
> 
> i also said before to my mate - i hope child tax credits do get cut - children are a priveledg - not a right
> 
> you cant afford em - dont have them - condoms are free at the health clinic.


Crap. So in your opinion children are a commodity only afforded to the rich? Plenty of people who work their arses off are still reliant on tax credits to get by - why should they be denied the right to raise a family? I'm not talking about scroungers here but decent hard working people!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Over half the country DIDN'T vote for Cameron either and yet he's weaseled into number 10.


Less than 25% of the country voted for Blair in 2005 and he still got in.


> Only seedy deals have secured the current parliamentary hash that doesn't actually reflect the opinions of the common man


Few governments of recent times have - see above



> Contrary to your opinion I don't believe my vote did count


The only reason your vote wouldn't count is if you spoiled the paper or did not vote.



> and equally I DO believe that plenty of people share my view tonight.


I'm sure there are plenty of people, but a) not enough shared your view on May 7th and even if they share it tonight, there are 'plenty' that don't.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Baby British said:


> Crap. So in your opinion children are a commodity only afforded to the rich? Plenty of people who work their arses off are still reliant on tax credits to get by - why should they be denied the right to raise a family? I'm not talking about scroungers here but decent hard working people!


i agree.condoms they r free...iv tried so hard to get a job and keep it...its min wage but thats all i can get at the moment my OH was also on minimum wage and we stil struggled him full time me part time...now its worse with him having no job....where i would be with no tax credits i dont know...as for the cant afford children, they deserve (in my opinion) the best things in life not for their family to scrape by all the time! x


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> So in your opinion children are a commodity only afforded to the rich? Plenty of people who work their arses off are still reliant on tax credits to get by - why should they be denied the right to raise a family? I'm not talking about scroungers here but decent hard working people!


I don't think anyone things that only the rich should have children. I've worked my arse off to raise my children (singlehandedly after my divorce), however, I have always considered them MY responsibility not the states.

I am all for tax credits, however, I think they are a sticking plaster. The reality is that we now live in a society where two incomes are required to have a decent standard of living because housing costs and basic costs have risen. The gap between poor and rich has increased........but all this happened under a Labour Govt. If they hadn't allowed that there would be no need for tax credits.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

@ rocco33

I can only assume that you voted conservative so equally how can you say that your vote counted? Granted Cameron now has his feet under the table at number 10 but what of their manifesto? So much has been changed in order to secure sleazy deals how can you guarantee the reforms will be in keeping with what drove you to vote as you did in the first place?!

The result is entirely false anyhow because I'm sure that lid dems would have come off even worse in the election had their voters forseen the events of today. Perhaps indeed to the point of the lib dems not having enough seats to allow the tories their craved majority even with the dirty deals.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> I can only assume that you voted conservative


I wonder why you come to that conclusion.

and for the record - you're wrong - I didn't - and the MP I voted for lost their seat. My vote counted, but I was outvoted. Simple.

PS - you know what they say about assumtions - they make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> I wonder why you come to that conclusion.
> 
> and for the record - you're wrong - I didn't - and the MP I voted for lost their seat. My vote counted, but I was outvoted. Simple.
> 
> PS - you know what they say about assumtions - they make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'!


 . .


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> I wonder why you come to that conclusion.
> 
> and for the record - you're wrong - I didn't - and the MP I voted for lost their seat.
> 
> PS - you know what they say about assumtions - they make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'!


Well I'm sorry for casting an assumption that has been proved incorrect but if in the event that you voted lib dem the same still applies as effectively anyone who voted conservative or lib dem has unbeknown to them at a time voted in an unknown government with unknown policies.

Put it this way - on polling day had you been given an extra box for an untried and tested party with undislosed policies would you have ticked it?


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

My goodness. I went to walk the dog and came back to find worry that children will be starving by 4pm tomorrow! LOL

David Cameron is just a man who lives in a house in London. He can only affect your circumstances if you let him.

Let's see what they come out with BEFORE we all go and throw ourselves off a cliff like lemmings. 

It's natural to feel anxious when things change, but seriously, all of this worry will do no good.

So far, as I understand it, Cameron's pledge has been to educate our children (severely needed...degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on anymore), look after the frail, elderly and the poor whilst allowing those who "can" to "do" - this can only be good, and he's warned us that there may be tough times ahead - if only the Greek government had done the same!!!

I'm confident that Nick Clegg being alongside Cameron will help reign back anything that's 'too right wing' and vice versa.

Political parties never rule forever. We have to adapt to the change.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> with undislosed policies would you have ticked it?


of course not, although neither did I vote for a party that I agreed with ALL their policies - that doesn't exist.

But I did go in with my eyes open and expecting that there would be a hung parliament.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> of course not, although neither did I vote for a party that I agreed with ALL their policies - that doesn't exist.
> 
> But I did go in with my eyes open and expecting that there would be a hung parliament.


I only wish I had your forsight because I was led to believe ahead of polling day that Conservatives were meant to storm it, lib dems were meant to gain a vast amount of seats and labour would be out on their arse in third place. Only the exit poll after voting closed pointed definitively to a hung parliament.

Still, at the end of the day we could both go on speculating until the cows come home but the time for speculation is now over. It's all happening in the here and now and ultimately in the coming months the proof will be in the pudding.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Baby British said:


> I only wish I had your forsight because I was led to believe ahead of polling day that Conservatives were meant to storm it, lib dems were meant to gain a vast amount of seats and labour would be out on their arse in third place. Only the exit poll after voting closed pointed definitively to a hung parliament.
> 
> Still, at the end of the day we could both go on speculating until the cows come home but the time for speculation is now over. It's all happening in the here and now and ultimately in the coming months the proof will be in the pudding.


Can't we all just love eachother like Baby British and me?

The other night (election night to be precise) we sat on opposite sides of the fence ALL night, but Baby made up for it when she baked me a 'humble pie' LOL



Remember babe??

I'd have called you, but some guy called Nick has been desperate to climb into bed with me since then and his wooing seems to have worked!

:scared:


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

classixuk said:


> Can't we all just love eachother like Baby British and me?
> 
> The other night (election night to be precise) we sat on opposite sides of the fence ALL night, but Baby made up for it when she baked me a 'humble pie' LOL
> 
> ...


I'm sure he's up your butt as you type


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Baby British said:


> I'm sure he's up your butt as you type


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Pixi (Feb 23, 2010)

I've never voted, and never will 
Although I do stay up to watch the counting votes. See who's won ect. (I never know why )
I don't honestly believe in the government. My theory - There will be no government when there will be no money. Money is power to them.
I just get on with my everyday life. Enjoy it all. I never let their 'system' get me down (if I can put it like that) .. however, this photo really made me giggle this evening ^__^


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I sure hope they don't put uni tuition fees up because that's not fair, they want to cut each unis funding and I don't want to pay more than people have in the last few years when my degree will be no more special 

I doubt I will go if they go up much, that would take away my motivation to better myself completely!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Baby British said:


> Crap. So in your opinion children are a commodity only afforded to the rich? Plenty of people who work their arses off are still reliant on tax credits to get by - why should they be denied the right to raise a family? I'm not talking about scroungers here but decent hard working people!


I have to agree with your post to a point, but i work in a child/family environment, and the people that can ill afford children without hand outs have the most children, the parent that both work get no handouts whatsoever are the ones with the maximum of 2 children, basically because they cant afford to have any more.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

I just hope they start getting to work on fixing the country's deficit problem as swiftly as possible.
Being in debt is not a good thing for any of us, even though it feels nice while you're spending the money on un-needed things.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I have to agree with your post to a point, but i work in a child/family environment, and the people that can ill afford children without hand outs have the most children, the parent that both work get no handouts whatsoever are the ones with the maximum of 2 children, basically because they cant afford to have any more.


I think I understand where you are coming from.

Decent responsible people see children as a financial burden. They might even put off having a child until their financial situation is secure.
There are others though who see each child as a cash-generator. They suck the money out of the pot and forget about the bit called "parenting".

If responsible parents were rewarded the system would be much more agreeable.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

nic101 said:


> i agree!!
> 
> i also said before to my mate - i hope child tax credits do get cut - children are a priveledg - not a right
> 
> you cant afford em - dont have them - condoms are free at the health clinic.


I am sorry but what sort of post is that. So now only the wealthy are allowed the gift of children 

I have 2 children, i am more than capable of affording them despite being on what i would class as a middle income, i work as a childminder so i can be at home with them. We recieve a small amount of tax credits which make a huge difference to us. I can't believe you would begrudge my kids a day at the zoo yet feel it is OK for someone earning 100K plus to have more in their pocket.

If everyone took your attitude who would ever have children, who knows what life will throw at you and if noone has kids we are truly screwed because who will look after your generation when you can't work.

I always understood the Tax credits were a sort of replacement for the old "married mans tax" to provide a fairer system, it's just a different form of tax break IT IS NOT A HANDOUT !!!!!!! (just wanted to make that clear, i am not "paid" to be a stay at home Mum).

I like my life, i could have gone back to my previous job after having kids earning over 20K but i wanted to raise my kids and i therefore accept the standard of living that affords me and do not begrudge anyone else theirs BUT i fail to see how anyone can think it is fair to take more money from those at the lower end of the wages scale while others at the higher end live such priviledged lives.

Oh and while we are on the subject what about all these banks/businesses that make obscene profits and pay virtually zero tax because they work the system to their advantage, now that IMO needs sorting before taking money from the likes of me.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

classixuk said:


> I think I understand where you are coming from.
> 
> Decent responsible people see children as a financial burden. They might even put off having a child until their financial situation is secure.
> There are others though who see each child as a cash-generator. They suck the money out of the pot and forget about the bit called "parenting".
> ...


I hope these 'decent people' who are 'financially secure' never find themselves a victim of circumstance rendering them not so well off and having to scrounge at the money pot 

Incidentally I have 3 children including twins - what a cunning plan of mine - a two for one shot at robbing the state!

I'm with Rainybow



> I always understood the Tax credits were a sort of replacement for the old "married mans tax" to provide a fairer system, it's just a different form of tax break IT IS NOT A HANDOUT !!!!!!! (just wanted to make that clear, i am not "paid" to be a stay at home Mum).


First people are lynched for being unemployed and then being in low paid employment and having kids! My OH was on a relatively good wage as a sergeant in the army that afforded us little in the way of tax credits and with the cost of todays living we still struggled at times. I don't begrudge people on lower incomes a penny of their tax credits. Chances are good that now OH has left the army we will be on a significantly lower income than before. Unfortunately he signed off from the army a year ago (you still have to serve 12 months after this) and at the time we had no idea of the politcal turmoil that lay ahead. The Oh is paid up until the 19th of this month and then we're buggered.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing that sadly even the rich can't buy.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Baby British said:


> I hope these 'decent people' who are 'financially secure' never find themselves a victim of circumstance rendering them not so well off and having to scrounge at the money pot
> 
> Incidentally I have 3 children including twins - what a cunning plan of mine - a two for one shot at robbing the state!


Don't think for one second that anyone here presumes you acted irresponsibly by having children.

But what is irresponsible is when a woman with 4 kids to 5 fathers continues to get pregnant again, despite the fact she's already living in a 4 bedroomed house paid for by the state, along with all the other benefits. Nobody can say that is responsible. It is sponging. If that woman were told she'd get no more money and no bigger house, she'd tell her OH to wear his wellies!

The state should be a safety net, not a final resting place. It's meant to help us when we need it, not help us to be lazy or bone idol.

If we cleared off the freeloaders, just think how much more money would be available for everyone else.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Don't think for one second that anyone here presumes you acted irresponsibly by having children.
> 
> But what is irresponsible is when a woman with 4 kids to 5 fathers continues to get pregnant again, despite the fact she's already living in a 4 bedroomed house paid for by the state, along with all the other benefits. Nobody can say that is responsible. It is sponging. If that woman were told she'd get no more money and no bigger house, she'd tell her OH to wear his wellies!
> 
> ...


But alot of the posts in this thread seem to make the assumption that families on tax credits are somehow "sponging"

You can't generalize like that. The tax credit system isn't there for the scroungers and work shy it is there to ENABLE people to work and therefore contribute to the greater economy.

It puts people who genuinely want to work back in a position to do that allowing them to take lower paid jobs while still maintaining an acceptable standard of living.

It is not like benefits it is a tax break for working families on a lower income.

Lets face it where would you be without those people doing the jobs that enable your lifestyle. No waitresses, nurses, dustmen, tesco check out girls etc etc.

Not everyone is in a position to just go and get a highly paid job (it's a bit unrealistic to think they can) and thats a good thing because we need the working class to enable our daily lives.

My job is pretty low paid BUT i contribute to society by enabling people with children to go to work, earn money and pay tax. Obviously i pay tax too when i earn enough


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

The Leopard never change his spots. He just changes his coat.
Mark my words. Interest rates will rise and many people will lose their jobs and homes. Hospitals and schools will begin their downward spiral yet again.
Everytime labour gets in they build up the schools and hospitals and then when the Conservatives get in they chop them down again.

Nick Clegg has sold his soul to the highest bidder for his 30 pieces of silver.
Both the liberals and Conservatives threw their values down the toilet to get into No 10.
It was only the labour party which stood by their principles.

Nick Clegg has no right to be deputy prime minister, the public didn't vote him or his fellow democrates in.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> But alot of the posts in this thread seem to make the assumption that families on tax credits are somehow "sponging"
> 
> You can't generalize like that. The tax credit system isn't there for the scroungers and work shy it is there to ENABLE people to work and therefore contribute to the greater economy.
> 
> ...


Just ignore them Rainy. I'd like to think that they haven't included good people like you in the group of spongers, I know I haven't. But if they have, just ignore them.

Tax credits are a great system for all people (parents or not) to top up their earnings if they're in a lower paid job.

Unfortunately, not everyone in the country wants to take advantage of them. They'd rather not get a job, and we all know that's a fact. They're the people I assume some posters are calling 'spongers'.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

nic101 said:


> i agree!!
> 
> i also said before to my mate - i hope child tax credits do get cut - children are a priveledg - not a right
> 
> you cant afford em - dont have them - condoms are free at the health clinic.


So what happen to the children already born? Go in to care which is cost the goverment more yeah what a brilliant idea.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> The Leopard never change his spots. He just changes his coat.
> Mark my words. Interest rates will rise and many people will lose their jobs and homes. Hospitals and schools will begin their downwood spiral yet again.
> Everytime labour gets in they build up the schools and hospitals and then when the Conservatives get in they chop them down again.
> 
> ...


Funny old world!

Still, had labour been in power today (as part of a coalition or otherwise) the pound would have utterly tanked and our rating would have been downgraded, not to mention the IMF being called in to sort out the mess labour have left the economy in. The relief is palpable quite frankly for those who understand the economy and have been horrified at how much in debt we are in. Approaching 1 trillion. And that's NOT including the nigh on 1 trillion of public sector pension deficits.

Anyone who has been working in the private sector will know full well about job cuts, pay freezes, short term contracts and the horrible uncertainty of whether they'll have a job come the weekend. Now the bloated public sector has to face the same music. Its already been said it won't be front line workers like doctors and nurses. It'll be pen pushers - the men and women behind the curtain earning OTT salaries for non-jobs. Its happening in Ireland, It's happening in Greece. Its happening in Spain. Its happening here.

The debt must be paid. And there's no way around that. Everyone will be effected in some way or other. And yes, probably through interest rate rises and changes in taxing. The benefit system has long been driven by people taking the mickey and "working the system" to get more than they deserve. Those who need help should always get it, but there are plenty out there currently who are better off not working and claiming benefit than they are if they worked. That is a CRAZY state of affairs and was always doomed to failure. Its got to stop.

Most people ARE working class after all. We work. 
It's the workshy who have most to fear from today onwards. I say bring it on.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> Funny old world!
> 
> Still, had labour been in power today (as part of a coalition or otherwise) the pound would have utterly tanked and our rating would have been downgraded, not to mention the IMF being called in to sort out the mess labour have left the economy in. The relief is palpable quite frankly for those who understand the economy and have been horrified at how much in debt we are in. Approaching 1 trillion. And that's NOT including the nigh on 1 trillion of public sector pension deficits.
> 
> ...


*Yes people will be effected just like they were when MT was in power.Do we honestly want to see people loosing their homes again and small businesses go under?*


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes people will be effected just like they were when MT was in power.Do we honestly want to see people loosing their homes again and small businesses go under?*


How do we pay the debt though?

P.S. I thought under Thatcher you were able to buy your home?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> How do we pay the debt though?
> 
> P.S. I thought under Thatcher you were able to buy your home?


*We pay the debt as Gordon Brown said,Slowly.Also stop sending millions abroad until we can sort out our own problems first.
Yes we did buy our council house when MT was in,and i've stated before imo thats one good thing she did do.BUT she was wrong not to use the money to replace those sold.*


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

classixuk said:


> How do we pay the debt though?
> 
> P.S. I thought under Thatcher you were able to buy your home?


That's very true. She gave the right to all council tenants to purchase their homes. Properties which were never intended for private sale. This in turn reduced the number of properties owned by councils and caused lengthy waiting lists for those who genuinely needed a home. I guess you can't do right for doing wrong.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Zaros said:


> That's very true. She gave the right to all council tenants to purchase their homes. Properties which were never intended for private sale. This in turn reduced the number of properties owned by councils and caused lengthy waiting lists for those who genuinely needed a home. I guess you can't do right for doing wrong.


I guess you can't. Maybe she should have left renters as exactly that and not given them a chance to own their home.

:confused1:


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

classixuk said:


> Funny old world!
> 
> Still, had labour been in power today (as part of a coalition or otherwise) the pound would have utterly tanked and our rating would have been downgraded, not to mention the IMF being called in to sort out the mess labour have left the economy in. The relief is palpable quite frankly for those who understand the economy and have been horrified at how much in debt we are in. Approaching 1 trillion. And that's NOT including the nigh on 1 trillion of public sector pension deficits.
> 
> ...


It's funny how the wealthy have this knack, this slight of hand way in blaming everyone else when they have been the principle people steeling most of our wage packets which has fueled this out of control inflation and increased our world debt. Why is it almost two thirds of my wages are not going in tax for the benefit of all, but straight into the pockets of the already wealthy in the form of high rents. I would sooner pay more tax then see the majority of my money wasted this way. These high rents have put pressure on wage demands driving them up and have destroyed manufacturing in this country. The so called work shy have had their jobs relocated abroad the other countries because the wealthy have become too greedy.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Paul Dunham said:


> It's funny how the wealthy have this knack, this slight of hand way in blaming everyone else when they have been the principle people steeling most of our wage packets which has fueled this out of control inflation and increased our world debt. Why is it almost two thirds of my wages are not going in tax for the benefit of all, but straight into the pockets of the already wealthy in the form of high rents. I would sooner pay more tax then see the majority of my money wasted this way. These high rents have put pressure on wage demands driving them up and have destroyed manufacturing in this country. The so called work shy have had their jobs relocated abroad the other countries because the wealthy have become too greedy.


So everyone who owns a house is rich? 

Have you thought about the fact that rent pays mortgage, expenses and THEN profit? If I rent my house out should I subsidise my tenants?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

classixuk said:


> How do we pay the debt though?
> 
> P.S. I thought under Thatcher you were able to buy your home?


There are many ways it can be paid back, why should tom, dick and joe public have to suffer more then they have in the past 12months because of it?

Unless your on alot of money No one can afford to lose more money, throw away their businesses, e.t.c

Oh renting isnt always about paying someones morgage My rent goes straight into the companies pockets Pure profit for them


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> That's very true. She gave the right to all council tenants to purchase their homes. Properties which were never intended for private sale. This in turn reduced the number of properties owned by councils and caused lengthy waiting lists for those who genuinely needed a home. I guess you can't do right for doing wrong.


*I think the labour goverment should have been the ones to give people the right to buy.Had it not been for MT i for one would not have a house i can call my own.Look at the kids today, they don't stand a hope in hell of getting onto the property ladder.If my hubby and i pop our clogs tomorow at least we have something to pass on.:thumbup:*


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

Just been having a butchers at this

BBC News - At-a-glance: Cameron coalition's policy plans

Loving the economy section - basically if you fart you're gonna be taxed for it 

Also like the bit on capping immigration from outside the EU. Can't speak for other areas but most of the foreigners coming into this neck of the woods are polish!

I had to smile at the bit about the cash injection to allow smaller class sizes for poorer children. Does this mean the tories will put a stop to my childrens small but superb village school closing this summer in favour of a super size school that will amalgamate 2 small schools from different areas? You can bet your arse they won't stop it as equally they won't when other small schools befall a similar fate in the future.

Seriously - had anyone seen this 'policies-at-a-glance' prior to May 6th would you have voted for this farce????

Oh and we're stuck with this BS until 2015!


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## hayleyb (Feb 10, 2009)

thatcher did give the rite to buy however at the expense of our pits and shipyards. the closing of these lost alot of families like mine their way of living.

and for those who refuse to work or leave school and sign on with no intention of signin off make them sign up to the armed forces. serving their country and earning the money they are handed out.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hayleyb said:


> thatcher did give the rite to buy however at the expense of our pits and shipyards. the closing of these lost alot of families like mine their way of living.
> 
> and for those who refuse to work or leave school and sign on with no intention of signin off make them sign up to the armed forces. serving their country and earning the money they are handed out.


Actually i agree with that. I think when someone leaves school if they don't find work within 6 months they should do some sort of "national service" to earn their benefits but not just in the armed forces. There are plenty of things our taxes are spent on that could be done free of charge by these people.

This would give them a skill, basic work ethic and the motivation to do better if they want to but they won't be idle.

I would welcome this sort of scheme for my children


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## candyshandy (Dec 10, 2008)

Baby British said:


> Just been having a butchers at this
> 
> BBC News - At-a-glance: Cameron coalition's policy plans
> 
> ...


Erm yes I would.

I have just looked at the link you have posted and I'm struggling to see where these tax increases are coming from??

It states they are abolishing the hike in NI that labour wanted
£10k nil rate band to be reintroduced
Tax on financial transactions - I have interpretated this as a review of capital gains tax which at the moment is a lot lower than income tax rates. This means that there are tax schemes available to convert income to capital and as such only pay 18%.
Support to promote business growth - be interesting to see what this means I'm hoping it will be for small businesses in the form of reduced taxation (in whatever guise) as they are the key to our economic recovery.
Banking reform - hoping there is movement on the release of funds for small businesses for the above reason.

Don't get me wrong I think we will see some painful hikes, my concern is VAT as this affects all people irrespective of income.

The full policy agreements are to be revealed today so lets see what they are before we immediately assume doom and gloom?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Part of the Tory's economy policies:

"*Accelerated*" action to cut the budget deficit: £6bn of spending cuts this year

And the word in bold, is why dark times lie ahead my friends, very, very dark times.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think the labour goverment should have been the ones to give people the right to buy.Had it not been for MT i for one would not have a house i can call my own.Look at the kids today, they don't stand a hope in hell of getting onto the property ladder.If my hubby and i pop our clogs tomorow at least we have something to pass on.:thumbup:*


I'm sure the scheme was done with every good intention initially, and I'm sure that the councils saw a prime opportunity to exploit the situation and sell properties which required repairs more than their budget would allow because they allowed them to fall into a poor state of repair. The problem was that the councils never redressed the balance of numbers.
I myself lived in a council property at that time and would never have considered buying a house that was fitted with old steel framed windows and were drafty required re-wiring/plumbing/central heating/roofing etc etc.
Why some had become so delapidated is beyond me because there isn't a council house on any council estate that hasn't been paid for time and time again.
Council homes were meant for those who genuinely couldn't afford to maintain a home of their own due to circumstances beyond their control. It's very easy to lose your own property but not so easy to lose council accommodation provided you keep up with the rents.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I don't know about anyone else but i can't wait to see who is going to run this country next.Yes i know its been a long drawn out affair but i've found it intersting.So my question is, who do you want to see run the country, Lab/Lib or Tory/Lib?*


*I see someone is playing the down rating threads game again and we all know who that would be. Also i have tried to rate your thread but it says i have already rated it...which i haven't. *


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

It says I've rated this thread, but I haven't I don't rate any 

I still don't know who the serial one star rater is but it seems a bit boring.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> It says I've rated this thread, but I haven't I don't rate any
> 
> I still don't know who the serial one star rater is but it seems a bit boring.


I agree and also the rating thing clearly doesn't work.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

FGS again?

I am getting a bit sick of the serial star sticker!

When did mark say he would have the bug in the system fixed?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

nic101 said:


> i agree!!
> 
> i also said before to my mate - i hope child tax credits do get cut - children are a priveledg - not a right
> 
> you cant afford em - dont have them - condoms are free at the health clinic.


Child tax credits are not a hand out they are a tax break! it not money I take off the state and everyone else, its a SMALL percentage of what tax we pay as a household back!!! I hope if you have children you dont claim any child benefit or tax credit if that is your opinion, children are expensive, child care is expensive I find comments like this really mean. 


RAINYBOW said:


> I am sorry but what sort of post is that. So now only the wealthy are allowed the gift of children
> 
> I have 2 children, i am more than capable of affording them despite being on what i would class as a middle income, i work as a childminder so i can be at home with them. We recieve a small amount of tax credits which make a huge difference to us. I can't believe you would begrudge my kids a day at the zoo yet feel it is OK for someone earning 100K plus to have more in their pocket.
> 
> ...


I agree good post


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

billyboysmammy said:


> FGS again?
> 
> I am getting a bit sick of the serial star sticker!
> 
> When did mark say he would have the bug in the system fixed?


lmao its not only the star thing but rep as well...



ClaireLouise said:


> Child tax credits are not a hand out they are a tax break! it not money I take off the state and everyone else, its a SMALL percentage of what tax we pay as a household back!!! I hope if you have children you dont claim any child benefit or tax credit if that is your opinion, children are expensive, child care is expensive I find comments like this really mean.
> 
> I agree good post


*Child tax credits ARE a handout like it or not..My hubby and i have no young kids now but who's paying for those that have? I have to laugh at the young today, because they have never had it so good.:lol:
Why should my hubby go to work to keep other peoples kids?*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> lmao its not only the star thing but rep as well...
> 
> *Child tax credits ARE a handout like it or not..My hubby and i have no young kids now but who's paying for those that have? I have to laugh at the young today, because they have never had it so good.:lol:
> Why should my hubby go to work to keep other peoples kids?*


Did you not get the old "married mans allowance" then Janice :


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Did you not get the old "married mans allowance" then Janice :


Very good point


JANICE199 said:


> lmao its not only the star thing but rep as well...
> 
> *Child tax credits ARE a handout like it or not..My hubby and i have no young kids now but who's paying for those that have? I have to laugh at the young today, because they have never had it so good.:lol:
> Why should my hubby go to work to keep other peoples kids?*


Same reason everyone works and pays tax hun  I worked for years before the kids came along and paided into the sytem.I still pay tax but happen to get some back no different to what you would have recieved as a family for married mans allowance


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Did you not get the old "married mans allowance" then Janice :


*I'll be the 1st to admit i haven't got a clue.All i know is, like an idiot i paid married womans tax.Now i get £36 old age pension.*


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

This made me giggle so no-one take offence 

Go to google and type in 'david cameron side profile' look at the first image before it's taken down 

If anyone is still in work err ... not worksafe really


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> This made me giggle so no-one take offence
> 
> Go to google and type in 'david cameron side profile' look at the first image before it's taken down
> 
> If anyone is still in work err ... not worksafe really


LMAO!

genius! :lol: :lol:


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

:lol::lol: thats so funny


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I have done a screen shot :lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I had a right giggle :lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

sequeena said:


> This made me giggle so no-one take offence
> 
> Go to google and type in 'david cameron side profile' look at the first image before it's taken down
> 
> If anyone is still in work err ... not worksafe really


LOL.... love it I think you should start a thread with that it deserves its own thread lol
Gonna put as my face book status LOL


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

hee hee thats good! :thumbup:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> LOL.... love it I think you should start a thread with that it deserves its own thread lol
> Gonna put as my face book status LOL


LMAO ok :thumbup:


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

Has it already been taken down or is it just me being thick :confused1:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I can't believe any of you would attack families like this. WTF is this world coming to when you are happy to see children worse off than they already are.

Looking after our kids is THE most important JOB in the world as far as i am concerned. They ARE our future and if we don't invest in their welfare and decent upbringing then we will be f....ed in a few years time.

I hope all of you who don't want to pay for my kids and think i shouldn't have had then (and before you start i am capable of affording my kids thankyou BUT if my OH was made redundant tomorrow i wouldn't be) never need one of them in the furure when you are old and sick 

Or we could just abolish all benefits and sit back and watch people die but that's OK as long as those with money get an extra week in the Maldives out of it.


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

Just stumbled across another gem in this mornings news. Can't wait 

BBC News - VAT 'will rise' under coalition government


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I can't believe any of you would attack families like this. WTF is this world coming to when you are happy to see children worse off than they already are.
> 
> Looking after our kids is THE most important JOB in the world as far as i am concerned. They ARE our future and if we don't invest in their welfare and decent upbringing then we will be f....ed in a few years time.
> 
> ...


*Perhaps its an age thing i don't know.But the kids today imo have far more than my kids ever did,or myself.How many people that say they "need" help have things like television, internet,sky,mobile phones ect ect? Those things today are not classed as luxuaries(sp) but thats what they are.*


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I can't believe any of you would attack families like this. WTF is this world coming to when you are happy to see children worse off than they already are.
> 
> Looking after our kids is THE most important JOB in the world as far as i am concerned. They ARE our future and if we don't invest in their welfare and decent upbringing then we will be f....ed in a few years time.
> 
> ...


Well said!!

I couldnt of put it any better myself. :thumbup:


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Perhaps its an age thing i don't know.But the kids today imo have far more than my kids ever did,or myself.How many people that say they "need" help have things like television, internet,sky,mobile phones ect ect? Those things today are not classed as luxuaries(sp) but thats what they are.


I agree with you Janice. I don't think it's just kids either, but when remember only ever getting things at Xmas and birthdays, only a few clothes, and if there was something we wanted especially, we either saved or waited till the next birthday.



> Originally Posted by RAINYBOW
> I can't believe any of you would attack families like this. WTF is this world coming to when you are happy to see children worse off than they already are.
> 
> Looking after our kids is THE most important JOB in the world as far as i am concerned. They ARE our future and if we don't invest in their welfare and decent upbringing then we will be f....ed in a few years time.
> ...


Are they attacking people with kids? I don't think so, and I'm certainly not. If your OH was made redundant then you would be entitled to benefits and I for one would hate to live in a society that didn't look after those who have fallen on bad times. Benefits are not supposed to maintain a lifestyle but put a roof over your head and food on the table - from the figures given in the other thread, that's exactly what they do - and people complain . However, there is too many people who EXPECT the state to pay for them to pay for them to have children. I live in a pretty affluent area, but there are many of them, not a minority.

I also think that all benefits should not be lumped together - there are many for different things. I certainly don't class Working /Child Tax Credit as a benefit, and others that are valid regardless such as Disability Allowance. That said, I think it better to raise the tax threshold (as this new govt plan to do) is far better than administering/paying out tax credits. I also find it horrifying that you can get tax credits up to £50,000. That is twice the national wage and IMO plenty to live on even if you are raising children. I find it unacceptable to pay tax back to those on that sort of income when there are so many on low incomes.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> I agree with you Janice. I don't think it's just kids either, but when remember only ever getting things at Xmas and birthdays, only a few clothes, and if there was something we wanted especially, we either saved or waited till the next birthday.
> 
> Are they attacking people with kids? I don't think so, and I'm certainly not. If your OH was made redundant then you would be entitled to benefits and I for one would hate to live in a society that didn't look after those who have fallen on bad times. Benefits are not supposed to maintain a lifestyle but put a roof over your head and food on the table - from the figures given in the other thread, that's exactly what they do - and people complain . However, there is too many people who EXPECT the state to pay for them to pay for them to have children. I live in a pretty affluent area, but there are many of them, not a minority.
> 
> I also think that all benefits should not be lumped together - there are many for different things. I certainly don't class Working /Child Tax Credit as a benefit, and others that are valid regardless such as Disability Allowance. That said, I think it better to raise the tax threshold (as this new govt plan to do) is far better than administering/paying out tax credits. I also find it horrifying that you can get tax credits up to £50,000. That is twice the national wage and IMO plenty to live on even if you are raising children. I find it unacceptable to pay tax back to those on that sort of income when there are so many on low incomes.


Thankyou for clarifying your position . That makes much more sense and is exactly how i see it. I totally agree. I absolutely agree the child tax credit limit on higher earners should be lowered in conjunction with a rise in the lower tax threashold as this would be fairer for everyone irrespective of marital or family status.

I have paid my tax and NI all my working life and if i fell on hard times of course i would claim to support my family. That's not sponging it is the whole point of the system 

Noone likes a sponger, noone likes to see people doing stuff all but appearing to have a better standard of living than someone who is working hard but there will always be people like that and that is what needs tackling not blanket policies that adversely affect the truly needy.

You cannot tar a whole section of society with the same brush.

It's funny that noone has mentioned child benefit. I get more in child benefit than tax credits and that "benefit" is given to every child irrespective of earnings. How is that different. It is still public money being handed out to people and in some cases very wealthy people :


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thankyou for clarifying your position . That makes much more sense and is exactly how i see it. I totally agree. I absolutely agree the child tax credit limit on higher earners should be lowered in conjunction with a rise in the lower tax threashold as this would be fairer for everyone irrespective of marital or family status.
> 
> I have paid my tax and NI all my working life and if i fell on hard times of course i would claim to support my family. That's not sponging it is the whole point of the system
> 
> ...


*Very good point, and i for one think those on very high incomes shouldn't get child benefit.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Is the winter fuel allowance for OAPs income related or is that another blanket payout ??


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Is the winter fuel allowance for OAPs income related or is that another blanket payout ??


*All women over 60 get it and men over 65.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *All women over 60 get it and men over 65.*


Ahhhhh so there is somewhere else we can make a saving :thumbup:

Reckon i will have this deficit done and dusted in a week


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Ahhhhh so there is somewhere else we can make a saving :thumbup:
> 
> Reckon i will have this deficit done and dusted in a week


*pmsl i was one step ahead of you,i was waiting for that.:lol: But my answer to that is it makes up for the handouts we didn't get for our kids.:lol:*


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> the winter fuel allowance for OAPs income related or is that another blanket payout ??
> 
> Reckon i will have this deficit done and dusted in a week




Actually, I think you'll find quite a lot of elderly wealthy people feel that they shouldn't be getting it, too.



> It's funny that noone has mentioned child benefit. I get more in child benefit than tax credits and that "benefit" is given to every child irrespective of earnings. How is that different. It is still public money being handed out to people and in some cases very wealthy people


I believe the thinking behind child benefit (when if was first introduced) was that it would be payed to mothers for all children regardless of income. This was back in the days when women did not tend to have their own income so relied on husbands for money. Because there is no legislation that can control how much housekeeping a women was given, regardless of the family income, as men had control of the finances, it was a way to ensure women had something for themselves to help raise children. I can understand it back then, but it is probably outdated now.



> Ahhhhh so there is somewhere else we can make a saving


Although I'm a socialist in conscience I cannot stand Labour. Putting aside the fact they took us into an illegal war, and caused (at least on this side of the Atlantic) the current financial crisis by deregulating the Banks, their waste is enormous.

As an example - what does it cost to administer the Working/Child Tax Credit system? This used to be covered by tax breaks - married allowance/child allowance were all given as tax allowances so the government took less money in taxes out of the pay packet. The new coalition govt plan to increase the tax allowance to £10,000 - this will put an extra £1000 per year into the pockets of those on low income - WITHOUT setting up a new department to administer it and the extra costs that go with it! Instead of having working and child tax credits, why not rehaul the tax system and bring back these as allowances to stop the expensive extra administration it costs to run these schemes.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Actually, I think you'll find quite a lot of elderly wealthy people feel that they shouldn't be getting it, too.
> 
> I believe the thinking behind child benefit (when if was first introduced) was that it would be payed to mothers for all children regardless of income. This was back in the days when women did not tend to have their own income so relied on husbands for money. Because there is no legislation that can control how much housekeeping a women was given, regardless of the family income, as men had control of the finances, it was a way to ensure women had something for themselves to help raise children. I can understand it back then, but it is probably outdated now.
> 
> ...


Which is why i voted Lib Dem


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *pmsl i was one step ahead of you,i was waiting for that.:lol: But my answer to that is it makes up for the handouts we didn't get for our kids.:lol:*


So you didn't get child benefit then Janice : I think you will find you did AND working mans allowance 

It was no different in your time Janice just the "handouts" went by a different name.

OK so there was no working element of the child tax credit but women didn't work as much then and childcare was a totally different ball game. My Mum worked but my Grandad looked after us. When that was no longer viable my Mum had an arrangement with a friend whereby they both worked part time different days and took it in turns to have each others kids on the days they were not at work, you can't do that now


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> So you didn't get child benefit then Janice : I think you will find you did AND working mans allowance
> 
> It was no different in your time Janice just the "handouts" went by a different name.
> 
> OK so there was no working element of the child tax credit but women didn't work as much then and childcare was a totally different ball game. My Mum worked but my Grandad looked after us. When that was no longer viable my Mum had an arrangement with a friend whereby they both worked part time different days and took it in turns to have each others kids on the days they were not at work, you can't do that now


*The differance i am talking about is,if we decided to have kids and work the state didn't pay for a childminder.I can't get my head around why the goverment would pay people to work.As i've said before when my kids were small i worked when i could and took them with me.Otherwise it was down to OH to provide.*


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The differance i am talking about is,if we decided to have kids and work the state didn't pay for a childminder.I can't get my head around why the goverment would pay people to work.As i've said before when my kids were small i worked when i could and took them with me.Otherwise it was down to OH to provide.*


Times have changed im afraid and the cost of living has gone through the roof, so me and my fiance both have to work to be able to afford the house we live in and to afford the childcare for the children. And unfortunately companies wont let you take your kids to work with you anymore!!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The differance i am talking about is,if we decided to have kids and work the state didn't pay for a childminder.I can't get my head around why the goverment would pay people to work.As i've said before when my kids were small i worked when i could and took them with me.Otherwise it was down to OH to provide.*


Because times have changed Janice. You can't take your kids to work anymore, you can't expect a neighbour to watch them for you 5 days a week for nothing, not everyone has a Grandparent able to do free full time childcare.

Childcare costs FROM £150 per week per child now . So 2 kids and that's £300 A WEEK !!!!!!!! That means a family needs to be earning £1200 a month Just to cover CHILDCARE !!!!!!. Add living expenses on top of that (rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, food) and surely you can see how unaffordable that is to people. So take a single parent (for example), there is no OH to stay at home with the kids, to work they must have childcare. How can they work then ??? Therefore they end up on benefits costing the country even more money and being labelled scroungers.

That just does not make economical sense Janice.

Obviously i have found a way round it by being a childminder but not everyone can do that job and if i couldn't I would have needed to find a job that paid me £20,000 a year just to cover the childcare costs and travel back and forth. I was a commercial Insurance Underwriter before i had kids Janice, a good job you might say and i wasn't on that sort of money then so where are all these £20,000 plus jobs then ?????

When you were younger Janice would you have been prepared to work for nothing ??


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Times have changed im afraid and the cost of living has gone through the roof, so me and my fiance both have to work to be able to afford the house we live in and to afford the childcare for the children. And unfortunately companies wont let you take your kids to work with you anymore!!


The cost of living has gone up, but this is mainly housing. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation which was intended to give women a choice but has ended up making it a necessity. With two income families having twice the income, demand for property (and the ability to pay more on two incomes and.... the irresponsible lending of banks) made housing costs go through the roof. No one in power saw the consequences of this (apart from maybe Vince Cable) and it has now led to the situation we are in now that you require two salaries to cover the basics unless you are wealthy, which leaves many women back to where they started - without a choice  - they have to work.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Because times have changed Janice. You can't take your kids to work anymore, you can't expect a neighbour to watch them for you 5 days a week for nothing, not everyone has a Grandparent able to do free full time childcare.
> 
> Childcare costs FROM £150 per week per child now . So 2 kids and that's £300 A WEEK !!!!!!!! That means a family needs to be earning £1200 a month Just to cover CHILDCARE !!!!!!. Add living expenses on top of that (rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, food) and surely you can see how unaffordable that is to people. So take a single parent (for example), there is no OH to stay at home with the kids, to work they must have childcare. How can they work then ??? Therefore they end up on benefits costing the country even more money and being labelled scroungers.
> 
> ...


*Ok i'll turn this around then.As you are a childminder as i understand it you can have a min.of 5 is it under 8 or more? So you can earn up to £750 a week if you had 5 full time.And how much of that is paid from the goverment?*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'll turn this around then.As you are a childminder as i understand it you can have a min.of 5 is it under 8 or more? So you can earn up to £750 a week if you had 5 full time.And how much of that is paid from the goverment?*


I am not sure how relevant that is.

Basically for people earning less than 25K the government pay up to 80% of childcare costs.

I live in an affluent area with reasonably good employment so most of the families i have dealt with pay it all themselves. I am just about to take on 2 new starters and they receive a contribution (i don't get paid by the Government, the payment goes to the parent but they have to give my details to ensure i am a bone fide provider) and i used to look after a little girl whose Mum was a single parent and she recived 70% i think.

PS - wish i did earn £750 a week :lol:


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I am not sure how relevant that is.
> 
> Basically for people earning less than 25K the government pay up to 80% of childcare costs.
> 
> ...


Doesnt alot of the money you earn have to go back in to the "pot" as such to pay for new toys, courses e.t.c


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

Daynna said:


> Doesnt alot of the money you earn have to go back in to the "pot" as such to pay for new toys, courses e.t.c


It is unbelievable how much money "childminders" need for the children.

Just for an example, my 2 boys eat my childminder out of house and home, they have everything!! They are spoilt rotten mind but they are fed so well everyday. That alone must cost her so much money.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I am not sure how relevant that is.
> 
> Basically for people earning less than 25K the government pay up to 80% of childcare costs.
> 
> ...





Daynna said:


> Doesnt alot of the money you earn have to go back in to the "pot" as such to pay for new toys, courses e.t.c


*No it doesn't.When you 1st become a childminder you get a start up grant.After that toys ect you buy you can put on your tax forms,if my memory serves me right i think its anything over £5 or £10 not sure which.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I can't believe any of you would attack families like this. WTF is this world coming to when you are happy to see children worse off than they already are.
> 
> Looking after our kids is THE most important JOB in the world as far as i am concerned. They ARE our future and if we don't invest in their welfare and decent upbringing then we will be f....ed in a few years time.
> 
> ...


Not for 1 minute would i want kids to be worse off than they are but to be honest with you the kids that are badly provided for it no fault of anyone than the parents, the money that goes to parents with kids is for the kids without them they wouldnt get as much, but unfortunately the money very often doesnt go to the children its spent on other things, i see everyday parents stood out side in the playground at hometime smoking their heads off i smoke so nothing wrong with that but theres something very wrong when the kids are comeing to school in pumps or sandals in the middle of winter, sometimes with flimsy coats on, you can but childrens clothes cheaply enough, i dont except that parents cant afford to provide the correct clothing for children when they can afford to smoke. I would definetly like to see a system where the children got more of the money spent on them that the government hand out.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Not for 1 minute would i want kids to be worse off than they are but to be honest with you the kids that are badly provided for it no fault of anyone than the parents, the money that goes to parents with kids is for the kids without them they wouldnt get as much, but unfortunately the money very often doesnt go to the children its spent on other things, i see everyday parents stood out side in the playground at hometime smoking their heads off i smoke so nothing wrong with that but theres something very wrong when the kids are comeing to school in pumps or sandals in the middle of winter, sometimes with flimsy coats on, you can but childrens clothes cheaply enough, i dont except that parents cant afford to provide the correct clothing for children when they can afford to smoke. I would definetly like to see a system where the children got more of the money spent on them that the government hand out.


*When i was childminding one woman use to turn up dressed up to the nines but her kids were so scruffy and dirty.She had EVERYTHING new in her house.Even the 2 year old had her own portable dvd player.But it was the goverment that paid for the childminding.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Its so wrong no child should have to go without today, to my way of thinking any money that is given because they have children is for the children.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *No it doesn't.When you 1st become a childminder you get a start up grant.After that toys ect you buy you can put on your tax forms,if my memory serves me right i think its anything over £5 or £10 not sure which.*


Not really sure why we are analizing this but i got £100 towards my start up which i spent on a double buggy. I have received nothing since. So the toys, craft materials, food, car seats, garden equiptment, outings etc etc come out of my earnings.

Of course things you buy for the minding are tax deductable like any business but that doesn't mean you don't have to pay for them  I have only ever earnt enough to pay tax (although i pay full NI) on one year of the 6 i have been working and on the other 5 the deductables made no difference but i only work part time.

Like i said only 2 of the many parents i have dealt with have been paid by the Government and both of those would have been on much more in general benefits without the opportunity to work that tax credits gives them.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Just to add the working tax childcare element can only be spent on childcare so it does go directly to the welfare of the children


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Im not being horrible or rude but im really quite offended by Janices and a few others comments
There are many benefits to the Child Care Element of the tax credit we recieve for nursery!
Firstly I am employed!!!! Im not claiming this that and the other _*sat at home*_ I get a percentage of my child care to help
Secondly I believe im setting my kids a _*good* _example, that they grow up to work hard like _we_ do.
Thridly I work for the NHS and i am skilled front line staff, my skills are in short supply and it benefits the _*whole community*_ that I am out at work for such an understaffed organisation. I wonder how short the front line services would be if all mums had to give up work, then who would suffer   
AND lastly do you know something Janice I work hard, very hard.... I do all the jobs you did in the house and hold down a job, I provide a service and set a good ekxample to my kids so you know something I when I am old and look back im sure my kids will be proud of how hard we work and your comments will mean nothing because the kids will know we did all we could for them!!!
I think woring mums _*derserve credit*_, its hard they dont deserve being made to feel bad for claiming a benefit

Do you have any idea what childcare costs??? I pay £160 a week for 2 days( mum has the kids the other 2) I work 4 days it wouldnt be worth going to work..... so should I sit at home and claim other benefits


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im not being horrible or rude but im really quite offended by Janices comments
> There are many benefits to the Child Care Element of the tax credit we recieve for nursery!
> Firstly I am employed!!!! Im not claiming this that and the other _*sat at home*_ I get a percentage of my child care to help
> Secondly I believe im setting my kids a _*good* _example, that they grow up to work hard like _we_ do.
> ...


Here Here.

You should try having my job though, alot of people don't even think Professional Childcare is "real" work :lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Here Here.
> 
> You should try having my job though, alot of people don't even think Professional Childcare is "real" work :lol:


HONESTLY! I couldnt be a childminder, very very hard work, I would be shattered, no thank you lol I dont know how they do it at the kids nursery, they work so hard.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Claire your not the only one (although i'm not directing my comments just at janice but at many people on this forum who share the same attitudes).

I'm a single mum, on benefits, not working.... guess that makes me a sponger

Single mum (not through choice)
2 children, 1 of whome is disabled and doesnt start full time school til sept
volunteer for cat rescue
studying towards a career in the NHS, 

I have just passed part one, part 2 of 3 to start in september, it will take me approx 4more years of study inc the degree to qualify.

I am doing my fecking damndest to make a secure and lasting future for my children. I didnt ask to be in this position, but thats how i find myself. I could go and get a dead end job and stay on benefits forever, i could try and go back to one of my old careers (but one of those would need a further year of studying to refresh, and the other is in finance... not a good sector to be in at the moment!) and still not earn enough to support 2 children and myself. The position i am aspiring towards will mean i can afford to live (not lavishly) without the need for benefits! Why the hell is that so wrong?

I know there are some wasters out there. Girls who pop out more children just to get the benefits, people who sit on the dole forever because they dont actually want to work. Most people DO want to work, DO want to improve their situation and ARE doing the best they can with the cards they are dealt.

I suggest those who are so critical of people on benefits, and like to pigeonhole everyone as wasters, benefits scum and spongers should walk a mile in their shoes.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> its hard they dont deserve being made to feel bad for claiming a benefit


I agree with what you say, but personally, I don't consider tax credit (or the child tax credit portion) a benefit. It used to be included in the taxable allowances (albeit childcare was not included - although few women worked then), and they were never referred to as benefits back then, simply tax allowances - and yes, Janice or her OH (assuming they worked) would have been eligible and received them.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

BBM don't ever think you're a scrounger, you've got a disabled child ffs! And he/she (sorry, not sure ) hasn't even started school!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> Claire your not the only one (although i'm not directing my comments just at janice but at many people on this forum who share the same attitudes).
> 
> I'm a single mum, on benefits, not working.... guess that makes me a sponger
> 
> ...


ahh you do work hard, keep it up it will all be worth it at the end and your children will be so proud of you and thats all that matters :thumbup:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> HONESTLY! I couldnt be a childminder, very very hard work, I would be shattered, no thank you lol I dont know how they do it at the kids nursery, they work so hard.


I am just about to start back working 3 full days plus after school on the other 2 and i am stocking up on Valium 

Nursery workers are troopers when you consider how little they earn 



billyboysmammy said:


> Claire your not the only one (although i'm not directing my comments just at janice but at many people on this forum who share the same attitudes).
> 
> I'm a single mum, on benefits, not working.... guess that makes me a sponger
> 
> ...


BBM - You personify all that is RIGHT with this world. You show the courage and determination of all those women before you who have fought hard for Independence and a decent life. It is exactly that sort of spirit and determination that got this country through the last war. I take my hat off too you and raise a glass in your general direction girl


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> BBM - You personify all that is RIGHT with this world. You show the courage and determination of all those women before you who have fought hard for Independence and a decent life. It is exactly that sort of spirit and determination that got this country through the last war. I take my hat off too you and raise a glass in your general direction girl


i agree, bbm you are a TRUE insparation to people, no one should ever make you feel like a sponger


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Here Here.
> 
> You should try having my job though, alot of people don't even think Professional Childcare is "real" work :lol:


*I did do your job not that long ago as i think i've said before to you.As for the start up grant as far as i'm aware its still £200.
Why anyone is upset at my comments i haven't a clue,i did what everyone else is doing, voiceing my oppion.*


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I did do your job not that long ago as i think i've said before to you.As for the start up grant as far as i'm aware its still £200.
> Why anyone is upset at my comments i haven't a clue,i did what everyone else is doing, voiceing my oppion.*


Actually Janice the amount you get for the grant is at the discretion of your local authority. In my area its £120, whilst the next nearest borough offers £300. From a quick google, ive seen rates varying from £80 - £500... bit of a postcode lottery.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im not being horrible or rude but im really quite offended by Janices and a few others comments
> There are many benefits to the Child Care Element of the tax credit we recieve for nursery!
> Firstly I am employed!!!! Im not claiming this that and the other _*sat at home*_ I get a percentage of my child care to help
> Secondly I believe im setting my kids a _*good* _example, that they grow up to work hard like _we_ do.
> ...


FAB Post Claire - I for one know how hard you and Barney work to give your children a good life - like you say you and many other working mums have made the choice to contribute to society rather than take the easy way out of just soley claiming benefits - I for one as a full time worker have NO issues whatsoever with working mums - I applaud them - and I certainly dont begrude them a little helping hand -why shouldnt they ?? they pay tax and insurance!! they are trying to make a difference and show their children the RIGHT way - that living a life dependent soley on benefits is not the right way! keep going girl u are a good un!!


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> FAB Post Claire - I for one know how hard you and Barney work to give your children a good life - like you say you and many other working mums have made the choice to contribute to society rather than take the easy way out of just soley claiming benefits - I for one as a full time worker have NO issues whatsoever with working mums - I applaud them - and I certainly dont begrude them a little helping hand -why shouldnt they ?? they pay tax and insurance!! they are trying to make a difference and show their children the RIGHT way - that living a life dependent soley on benefits is not the right way! keep going girl u are a good un!!


totally agree with you suze, it is very hard being a working mum i should know.

But i wouldnt have it any other way i want to go out and do my job as the satisfaction you feel is unbelievable at the end of the day when you go home to your children. Although i miss them so much as well and miss out on a lot of there upbringing. But that is the sacrifice you have to make these days.:thumbup:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Muriel May said:


> totally agree with you suze, it is very hard being a working mum i should know.
> 
> But i wouldnt have it any other way i want to go out and do my job as the satisfaction you feel is unbelievable at the end of the day when you go home to your children. Although i miss them so much as well and miss out on a lot of there upbringing. But that is the sacrifice you have to make these days.:thumbup:


I know u work very hard too hun and I have lots of admiration for you  :thumbup: Just wish there were more people like u out there 

I know for a fact when I have my child I will go back to work - work is a part of my life I dont want to lose it - it makes me who Iam and I dont see why being a mother should change that - my mum worked from when we were a certain age - not because she HAD to but because she wanted to - it added to our lifestyle yes - but it also showed me and my sister that going to work is the responsible thing to do - it gave us drive and ambition which is sadly lacking in a lot of young mothers who just sponge of the system - my life as a child never suffered because of my mum working - it enhanced it because it gave us those extra little luxuries - my sister is also now working part time and again she doesnt have to - her husband has a very very good job and makes a lot of money but she says now the children are at a certain age where they dont need AS much looking after she wants to start building a career again for herself - imo this is the correct attitude


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I did do your job not that long ago as i think i've said before to you.As for the start up grant as far as i'm aware its still £200.
> Why anyone is upset at my comments i haven't a clue,i did what everyone else is doing, voiceing my oppion.*


Well i got the maximum and that was £100 at the time. Even at £200 that would no where near cover all the costs of starting up when you take all the health and safety measures into consideration. But as i said it'd not really relevant.

I think your comments (and other peoples) have upset because you seem to begrudge people the help they get that enables them to provide a better life for their kids and as i have explained the tax credit system is no where near as open to abuse as alot of the benefit system so those on tax credits tend to be genuine people not scroungers.

Also as i have said these benefits are ones you would have had when your kids were younger they just went by a different name so why you would begrudge them to people now is beyond me. As for paying for chid care, i think i have coverred why that is necessary now, you cannot apply what was acceptable in your day to modern times.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Well i got the maximum and that was £100 at the time. Even at £200 that would no where near cover all the costs of starting up when you take all the health and safety measures into consideration. But as i said it'd not really relevant.
> 
> I think your comments (and other peoples) have upset because you seem to begrudge people the help they get that enables them to provide a better life for their kids and as i have explained the tax credit system is no where near as open to abuse as alot of the benefit system so those on tax credits tend to be genuine people not scroungers.
> 
> Also as i have said these benefits are ones you would have had when your kids were younger they just went by a different name so why you would begrudge them to people now is beyond me. As for paying for chid care, i think i have coverred why that is necessary now, you cannot apply what was acceptable in your day to modern times.


*I do not begrudge people that need help.As for having the same benefits as those of today,i don't ever recall tax credits being available when i had my kids.
As i said before people moan they are hard done by, but how many have all the mod cons of today? That imo is not being hard done by.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I do not begrudge people that need help.As for having the same benefits as those of today,i don't ever recall tax credits being available when i had my kids.
> As i said before people moan they are hard done by, but how many have all the mod cons of today? That imo is not being hard done by.*


You would have received Child benefit (which is still a handout) and you would have had the working mans tax allowance which was the "tax credit" system of its day but the newer system reflects a modern society in which not every family contains the old fashioned Married couple plus kids. The working mans tax allowance was a tax break so would have ben applied to your OHs wages before you saw them whereas the tax credit is a seperate payment. That is my only critiscism of it to be honest is it could be administered more efficiently via the tax system rather than being a seperate department more like the working mans allowance used to be.

Ok so you would not have had childcare paid but that is to reflect the change in times we have now. Can you really see employers allowing parents to bring kids in to work with them now :eek6:

As for all the mod cons, I am sure your parents would have thought you had "mod cons" in things like fridge freezers and hoovers but i am sure you just considered those essentials much like the "mod cons" you refer to today, that's the way it is in a progressive society.

Yes i have a mobile but i never use my home phone, yes i have a TV but i am sure you had one of those too when they became "the norm". We run a car but jobs and family are more fragmented than they used to be and public transport isn't fantastic, my husband couldn't get to work without one.

Trying to think what other "luxuries" i have. No Sky TV, No foriegn holidays, kids clothes are mostly hand downs and we are on what i consider to be a decent wage.

Our money goes on food, bills and living expenses, much the same as when you was raising a family i would think.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> You would have received Child benefit (which is still a handout) and you would have had the working mans tax allowance which was the "tax credit" system of its day but the newer system reflects a modern society in which not every family contains the old fashioned Married couple plus kids. The working mans tax allowance was a tax break so would have ben applied to your OHs wages before you saw them whereas the tax credit is a seperate payment. That is my only critiscism of it to be honest is it could be administered more efficiently via the tax system rather than being a seperate department more like the working mans allowance used to be.
> 
> Ok so you would not have had childcare paid but that is to reflect the change in times we have now. Can you really see employers allowing parents to bring kids in to work with them now :eek6:
> 
> ...


*You have taken what i said as if it was aimed at you personaly which it wasn't.
As i stated yesterday i know loads of people on tax credits,get their council tax paid ect ect but they have a better standard of living than we do.
I'll give you an example which is 100% the truth.
A couple i know, she's a childminder,he's unemployed.But he has been on god knows how many courses paid for by the goverment.They have a 4 bedroom house,at the last count she was looking after at least 4 kids,she's got 1 teenage son.Their rent is paid as well.Now i know for a fact the amount of money going into that house is far greater than what my hubby brings home.How is that right?Why are other people paying for the likes of him to continue to do courses but he's never been made to get a job.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *You have taken what i said as if it was aimed at you personaly which it wasn't.
> As i stated yesterday i know loads of people on tax credits,get their council tax paid ect ect but they have a better standard of living than we do.
> I'll give you an example which is 100% the truth.
> A couple i know, she's a childminder,he's unemployed.But he has been on god knows how many courses paid for by the goverment.They have a 4 bedroom house,at the last count she was looking after at least 4 kids,she's got 1 teenage son.Their rent is paid as well.Now i know for a fact the amount of money going into that house is far greater than what my hubby brings home.How is that right?Why are other people paying for the likes of him to continue to do courses but he's never been made to get a job.*


I wasn't taking it personally but if you just remove the benefit i am making you aware of the sort of people who will suffer. I am not really talking about myself as i receive a very very small amount of tax credit (think it's about £10 a week) and wouldn't qualify for the childcare element if i went back to my old job but i know people who get more than me who are on lower earnings and i know how much they need it to work.

You cannot just pull out one case and then make everyone else suffer because some people have worked out how to work the system.

If she has 4 *full timers * thats approx £600 a week so i would very much doubt she would be entitled to rent & C tax paid. So either she is being dishonest about how much she earns or maybe she has 4 part timers and doesn't earn as much as you think.

Of course there are people who will lie and cheat and bend the rules but you have to tackle that problem rather than just remove the benefits.

I don't believe anyone on here has suggested that people shouldn't be put back to work rather than languishing on long term dole (quite the opposite actually) but we do have high unemployment at the moment so its all very well saying he should go get a job but maybe there aren't any :


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I wasn't taking it personally but if you just remove the benefit i am making you aware of the sort of people who will suffer. I am not really talking about myself as i receive a very very small amount of tax credit (think it's about £10 a week) and wouldn't qualify for the childcare element if i went back to my old job but i know people who get more than me who are on lower earnings and i know how much they need it to work.
> 
> You cannot just pull out one case and then make everyone else suffer because some people have worked out how to work the system.
> 
> ...


*So it doesn't matter what i say its all wrong.Lets hope this tory/lib goverment end up doing what MT did, then people will see how hard life REALY can be.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *So it doesn't matter what i say its all wrong.Lets hope this tory/lib goverment end up doing what MT did, then people will see how hard life REALY can be.*


Actually if you look back Janice i have agreed with some of what you have said i just happen to disagree with a blanket removal of the Tax Credit System and have been trying to explain it's importance to you and how it saves the country money by enabling people to work 

Every generation thinks they had it harder than the next, thats life


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Actually if you look back Janice i have agreed with some of what you have said i just happen to disagree with a blanket removal of the Tax Credit System and have been trying to explain it's importance to you and how it saves the country money by enabling people to work
> 
> Every generation thinks they had it harder than the next, thats life


*Rainy, fact! imo people have never had it so good as they have got it now.we, myself included take so much for granted these days.But because of my background i know for a fact i will survive,so what might come across as sour grapes is far from it.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Rainy, fact! imo people have never had it so good as they have got it now.we, myself included take so much for granted these days.But because of my background i know for a fact i will survive,so what might come across as sour grapes is far from it.*


That is called progress Janice, life is meant to get better. Watching how people dealt with the Blitz (my Grandad was in the London Fireservices during the war) we have NOTHING to moan about. That same spirit still survives we just haven't had to deploy it but that doesn't mean it has gone, it's amazing what people can do when they have to.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> That is called progress Janice, life is meant to get better. Watching how people dealt with the Blitz (my Grandad was in the London Fireservices during the war) we have NOTHING to moan about. That same spirit still survives we just haven't had to deploy it but that doesn't mean it has gone, it's amazing what people can do when they have to.


*It might be called progress but is it realy? If people never know real hardship how can they appreciate what they have? As for the same spirit being still there, trust me it isn't.How about when the lorry drivers tried their protest,how many of the public came out and helped them?If we still had any backbone left in this country we would all have stood by them.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *It might be called progress but is it realy? If people never know real hardship how can they appreciate what they have? As for the same spirit being still there, trust me it isn't.How about when the lorry drivers tried their protest,how many of the public came out and helped them?If we still had any backbone left in this country we would all have stood by them.*


I agree with a lot of this, i have to admit ive never known hardship as such so been very lucky, but i dont think this country had made any progress at all in fact i think we have gone backwards.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *It might be called progress but is it realy? If people never know real hardship how can they appreciate what they have? As for the same spirit being still there, trust me it isn't.How about when the lorry drivers tried their protest,how many of the public came out and helped them?If we still had any backbone left in this country we would all have stood by them.*


Maybe but you can't help what era you were born in. I agree people are more introvert (selfish) than they used to be and less likely to stand up for what they believe in. I think Labour did alot of damage with regards Freedom of Speech, rights to peaceful protest etc and if you check out the New Mandate part of it claims it is going to try and reverse some of that which has to be a good thing .

I still think when the chips are down though the ordinary folk will look after their own and that will include their neighbours


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Maybe but you can't help what era you were born in. I agree people are more introvert (selfish) than they used to be and less likely to stand up for what they believe in. I think Labour did alot of damage with regards Freedom of Speech, rights to peaceful protest etc and if you check out the New Mandate part of it claims it is going to try and reverse some of that which has to be a good thing .
> 
> I still think when the chips are down though the ordinary folk will look after their own and that will include their neighbours


*I don't think we will ever see those days again unfortunatly.The country now has become far too divided,people are far more selfish these days.We live in a society where people feel the need to keep up with the Jones's.
When we've been to Malta on holiday it reminds me so much of how this country use to be,ie. close knit communities.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I don't think we will ever see those days again unfortunatly.The country now has become far too divided,people are far more selfish these days.We live in a society where people feel the need to keep up with the Jones's.
> When we've been to Malta on holiday it reminds me so much of how this country use to be,ie. close knit communities.*


I live in a pretty close knit community so it does still exist and where i live people would unite  Maybe that's why i see it differently.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I live in a pretty close knit community so it does still exist and where i live people would unite  Maybe that's why i see it differently.


*lol so you see the world through rose tinted glasses then.*


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Perhaps we should return to the times before the industrial revolution to really learn about hardships!

Then once we have learnt how to survive without the modern equiment, medicine, health care, electricity, gas, mechanical transport, etc we could put ourselves into the stocks in the town centre to have rotton veg thrown at us by the privaleged rich.

Think that will make us learn our lesson?

Gosh! How very dare we be poor! 

People by todays standards, when others 50 years ago were poorer, and those 50 years before that were even worse off, and 50 years before that.... and so it goes!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol so you see the world through rose tinted glasses then.*


No I think you are wrong I agree with Rainy. You think you had it harder than people do today I think its you that sees things through rose tinted glasses then, people have it hard today just in a different way. We have many things to be thankful for but we are also missing out on many things you had. swings and roundabouts


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I for one am thankful that I was born in this era, I would never get the support I'm getting now 20+ years ago :thumbup: and I feel very sad for those in my situation who never got the support and had to keep everything to themselves


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol so you see the world through rose tinted glasses then.*


No Janice i say it as i see it and where i live we still have community. Thats not seeing things through rose coloured glasses it's fact.

But i do prefer to see the best in people rather than always looking for the worst.

I like my life, have never said i don't, i am happy with my little lot and couldn't give a stuff if Joe Bloggs down the road has more than me.

I have wealth money can't buy and i am grateful for that. Doesn't mean i am not concerned for the future, we all need to be because this country is in the **** but i am more concerned about people less fortunate than i am because the belt tightening that everyone is going to have to do is going to hit them hard and noone wished that on anyone.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I was trying to lighten things up, seems thats wrong too.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I was trying to lighten things up, seems thats wrong too.*


sorry i mistook it for sarcasm


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

LOL. This thread seems to have gone from "who-will-win-tories-or-labour" to "who-will-win-rainybow-or-janice" (despite the fact that's not where it was intended to end up).

How about we mirror the politics and form a cosy coalition?

The thread's too long to read. I'll be the negotiator though.

All you need to do is reply with a paragraph stating your manifesto differences, and I will weave both point of view together for you and help form your coalition.  This could be interesting! LOL


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> LOL. This thread seems to have gone from "who-will-win-tories-or-labour" to "who-will-win-rainybow-or-janice" (despite the fact that's not where it was intended to end up).
> 
> How about we mirror the politics and form a cosy coalition?
> 
> ...


*Classix if i wasn't so thick i'd give it a go.Seems like i'm not very good at puting my point across,plus my spelling is rubbish.*


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Classix if i wasn't so thick i'd give it a go.Seems like i'm not very good at puting my point across,plus my spelling is rubbish.*


PMSL. See what you get when you jump from the Tories into supporting Labour? You'd have been better retaining your original position!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> PMSL. See what you get when you jump from the Tories into supporting Labour? You'd have been better retaining your original position!


*lmao my 1st choice would have been bnp...But i still think the youngsters that didn't go through the Thatcher years will be learning pretty soon.*


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lmao my 1st choice would have been bnp...But i still think the youngsters that didn't go through the Thatcher years will be learning pretty soon.*


Learning what exactly? That it's physically impossible to lead a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget without getting into financial difficulty later on? LOL


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

classixuk said:


> Learning what exactly? That it's physically impossible to lead a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget without getting into financial difficulty later on? LOL


Best quote on the entire thread imho. 

xxxx


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> Learning what exactly? That it's physically impossible to lead a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget without getting into financial difficulty later on? LOL


*lmao oh i'm so glad i'm my age.:lol:*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> LOL. This thread seems to have gone from "who-will-win-tories-or-labour" to "who-will-win-rainybow-or-janice" (despite the fact that's not where it was intended to end up).
> 
> How about we mirror the politics and form a cosy coalition?
> 
> ...


Just got back and saw this :lol: You can keep Politics ta very much, me and Janice just like a good old debate . If we had been sat in the pub over a bottle of wine we probably could have ironed it all out and put the worlds to right in about an hour instead of 3 days :lol: We agree .... sometimes :lol:

BNP Janice :scared: are you trying to get me started again


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Just got back and saw this :lol: You can keep Politics ta very much, me and Janice just like a good old debate . If we had been sat in the pub over a bottle of wine we probably could have ironed it all out and put the worlds to right in about an hour instead of 3 days :lol: We agree .... sometimes :lol:
> 
> BNP Janice :scared: are you trying to get me started again


*pmsl no not realy but it might be yet another good debate.If people saw through their bad side they have some damn good policies......honest.:thumbup:*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *pmsl no not realy but it might be yet another good debate.If people saw through their bad side they have some damn good policies......honest.:thumbup:*


On that we will DEFINATELY just agree to disagree  :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*pmsl now would you not agree with any of these?

1.. Free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket which is stopping them from doing their jobs properly;
- End the liberal fixation with the rights of criminals and replace it with concern for the rights of victims  and the right of innocent people not to become victims;
- Re-introduce corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals;
- Restore capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute (such as with DNA or other compelling evidence).

2.- Replace 100,000 NHS bureaucrats with doctors, nurses and dentists;

- Invest sufficient money in the NHS to provide a decent service to the British people;

- Bring hospital cleaning back in-house and make high cleanliness a top priority;

- End the scandal of foreign health tourism;

- Train and pay to retain British doctors, nurses and dentists instead of looting the Third World of staff who are desperately needed in their home countries;

- Revitalise the healthcare system by boosting staff and bed numbers, slashing unnecessary bureaucracy and by addressing the root cause of low recruitment and retention  low pay.

- We will see to it that no money is given in foreign aid while our own hospitals are short of beds and the staff to run them.

- Finally, more emphasis must be placed on healthy living with greater understanding of sickness prevention through physical exercise, a healthier environment and improved diets.

lol just a few things to ponder over while i', cleaning my solar lights.*


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> - Restore capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute (such as with DNA or other compelling evidence).


It is wrong to take a life regardless of circumstances IMO. Thankfully there is still a majority of people in the UK that do not believe in capital punishment.



> We will see to it that no money is given in foreign aid while our own hospitals are short of beds and the staff to run them


.

In spite of our current financial difficulties, we are still one of the wealthiest nations in the world. We have used poorer countries in the past (and still import cheap goods from countries who cannot pay their workers a living wage so perpetuating poverty in these countries). The world is a small place, as a wealthy nation it is, IMO, our responsiblity to help others.

Much that is wrong with the NHS is down to wasted money, however, this is a hallmark of Labour policy generally, not the NHS specifically.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Certainly dont agree with people that take other peoples lives then go on to life in considerable luxury at the cost of the innocent, law abiding people. So capital punishment or something much harsher than we have now for murderers would be welcomed


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *pmsl now would you not agree with any of these?
> 
> 1.. Free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket which is stopping them from doing their jobs properly;
> - End the liberal fixation with the rights of criminals and replace it with concern for the rights of victims  and the right of innocent people not to become victims;
> ...


I refuse to even discuss the BNP. I will never support a party whose basic principles are founded in rascism and the spread of fear and hatred. They never got a single seat Janice, that must tell you something.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I couldnt support the BNP in anyway shape or form!! regardless of what the pledge and promise the FACT is they are racists and imo there is no place for racists in politics/society.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


RAINYBOW said:



I refuse to even discuss the BNP. I will never support a party whose basic principles are founded in rascism and the spread of fear and hatred. They never got a single seat Janice, that must tell you something.

Click to expand...

I would never vote bnp either,because i don't like rascism myself.But i was just saying not all they say is bad.Its a pity the main parties don't take some of what they say onboard.
*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I couldnt support the BNP in anyway shape or form!! regardless of what the pledge and promise the FACT is they are racists and imo there is no place for racists in politics/society.


Agree - they may have some policies that we can say oh yeah we agree to but those policies are only put in place as a "front" to entice members.


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## Guest (May 16, 2010)

The problem with the BNPs more "palatable" policies, shall we say, is the challenge of actually implementing them - the money simply isnt there when we are already in a dire position financially, and others would just damage the country as they are not properly conceived, or are just a white wash for their sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigotted views. Thats why they are only a "front"...they sound nice but are simply impractical or just plain wrong.

Their concept of capital punsihment also extends to schools...how many of you would be happy with their kids coming home having been hit with a ruler or something cos they didnt do their homework? Including kids that have learning difficulties or other issues?

They would allow "citizen rifles" - yeah...great idea! :confused1: We have a knife problem already, lets make guns more readily available!

Their policies on protectionism would cost a great deal of jobs as companies flee the countries...

Policies regarding international affairs would destroy our international reputation.

A regressive taxation system that will re-establish wives as dependant on their husbands (oh yay for us, big set back in womens rights)

Repeal witness protection in rape cases (great idea that)




Im a big fan, can you tell :scared:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> Agree - they may have some policies that we can say oh yeah we agree to but those policies are only put in place as a "front" to entice members.


*Suzy like it not they DO have some good policeis.I wasn't talking bnp i said about those things stated. Not everything has to do with race or colour. There is a bigger picture which people forget.*


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Savahl said:


> The problem with the BNPs more "palatable" policies, shall we say, is the challenge of actually implementing them - the money simply isnt there when we are already in a dire position financially, and others would just damage the country as they are not properly conceived, or are just a white wash for their sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigotted views. Thats why they are only a "front"...they sound nice but are simply impractical or just plain wrong.
> 
> Their concept of capital punsihment also extends to schools...how many of you would be happy with their kids coming home having been hit with a ruler or something cos they didnt do their homework? Including kids that have learning difficulties or other issues?
> 
> ...


You deserve rep for that :thumbup:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Savahl said:


> The problem with the BNPs more "palatable" policies, shall we say, is the challenge of actually implementing them - the money simply isnt there when we are already in a dire position financially, and others would just damage the country as they are not properly conceived, or are just a white wash for their sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigotted views. Thats why they are only a "front"...they sound nice but are simply impractical or just plain wrong.
> 
> Their concept of capital punsihment also extends to schools...how many of you would be happy with their kids coming home having been hit with a ruler or something cos they didnt do their homework? Including kids that have learning difficulties or other issues?
> 
> ...


Excellent post. My husband is German, and his relatives all say that the BNP now is what the Nazi party under Hitler seemd like at first. Some policies seemed good on the surface and fooled people into voting for them - and that was the beginning of the downwards spiral. So Janice, don't be fooled by the fact that some of their policies might sound good - they are anything but.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Suzy like it not they DO have some good policeis.I wasn't talking bnp i said about those things stated. Not everything has to do with race or colour. There is a bigger picture which people forget.*


I never said it did - did I mention colour?? and if u read my post correctly I said we could agree with some of their policies - but they are mostly a cover for their ulterior motives which is to embrace white superiortity - you may roll your eyes Janice - but in my life it does have a bigger status than yours - my future children and step children would have to live under that regime and wouldnt stand a chance so to me that IS the bigger picture.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Suzy like it not they DO have some good policeis.I wasn't talking bnp i said about those things stated. Not everything has to do with race or colour. There is a bigger picture which people forget.*


No one said they didnt have a few good policies but the FACT is they are racists so can provide no good to the country and that IS the bigger picture.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Ladies...in support of the posts Janice made, I read them differently.

Correct me if I am wrong Janice, but the impression I got from your posts was that regardless of who wrote the individual policies (whether it be Labour, BNP or Monster Raving Looney Party) you were merely commenting that you thought the policies as words and proposals made good sense.

I don't think Janice wanted to get into a debate about the BNP party, but was rather hoping that discussion could be opened on a policy (regardless of which party proposed it).

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe Janice is goosestepping over to the kitchen sink to wash the dishes as we speak. LOL!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I don't think Janice wanted to get into a debate about the BNP party, but was rather hoping that discussion could be opened on a policy (regardless of which party proposed it).


You may be right and you may be wrong - but trying to discuss any policy without reference to which party proposed it is impossible. There are always motives behind policies. For example, Labour/Tories/LibDem wanting to cut NHS beaurocracy stems from different ideals than the BNP wanting to cut NHS beaurocracy. For the former it's to improve services. For the latter it's to get rid of "foreigners" working in the NHS.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> Ladies...in support of the posts Janice made, I read them differently.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong Janice, but the impression I got from your posts was that regardless of who wrote the individual policies (whether it be Labour, BNP or Monster Raving Looney Party) you were merely commenting that you thought the policies as words and proposals made good sense.
> 
> ...


*Thankyou Classixuk for reading my post in the context that i intended it to be.Also for being unbias.
As we now have a coalition govement we HAVE taken policies from two parties that had diferent views.I was merely sateteing some of the points in my post wouldn't have all been bad.*


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## Guest (May 16, 2010)

My response wasn't suggesting anyone here is advocating the bnp, merely highlighting that their nicer policies aren't all they seem - the ideas may be nice but simply impractical and some do have more extreme side effects such as the issue regarding corporal punishment. As for the nhs, if not foreign drs where are all these new drs and nurses gunna come from? It's less of a lack of investment in training more of a lack of interest from kids to go into fields that require 7 yrs plus training with "hard" subjects. The backbone isn't there to support the policies which is probably why other parties haven't already adopted them. Or they are on shakey moral grounds to start with and would be messy to implement (capital punishment)

excuse the bad grammer and post structure, postin on my phone!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thankyou Classixuk for reading my post in the context that i intended it to be.Also for being unbias.
> As we now have a coalition govement we HAVE taken policies from two parties that had diferent views.I was merely sateteing some of the points in my post wouldn't have all been bad.*


And i agreed with that Janice! and where were any of us bias?? we were merely stating our own opinions - seems like if I dont agree with you im in the wrong and dont understand the context of your posts which I actually did.

At the end of the day you are entitled to your own view Jan and so is evryone else doesnt need to become a war.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I simply refuse to even discuss their policies because to me that would be like somehow validating them and as Spellweaver said their policies come from a totally different place.

It is a free country so everyone is entitled to support the party they most believe in and for me to support a party i have to believe in their fundamental core beliefs for this country not what they say to get themselves elected and IMO the BNPs core beliefs are rotten


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I simply refuse to even discuss their policies because to me that would be like somehow validating them and as Spellweaver said their policies come from a totally different place.
> 
> It is a free country so everyone is entitled to support the party they most believe in and for me to support a party i have to believe in their fundamental core beliefs for this country not what they say to get themselves elected and IMO the BNPs core beliefs are rotten


*And as i have stated this had nothing to do with voting for or agreeing with what the bnp stand for.My post was on the topics in general, no more no less.
Some i thought were good debating points.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lmao my 1st choice would have been bnp...But i still think the youngsters that didn't go through the Thatcher years will be learning pretty soon.*


Sorry i took this to be your opinion and therefore assumed we were discussing the BNP because you followed this post with a list of some of their policies that you thought were good.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Sorry i took this to be your opinion and therefore assumed we were discussing the BNP because you followed this post with a list of some of their policies that you thought were good.


*I take the blame wholeheartedly for saying my 1st choice would have been bnp.I was joking, thats why i put lmao at the start of my post.I could never vote for them because of what they stand for.But i still have an open mind on all parties.There is good and bad in then all.*


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Labour > Torys


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