# Feeling unwelcome?



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

It seems to be mentioned quite often that new members aren't made to feel welcome on this forum.

I've only been here since June this year so I'm a new member. I've never once been made to feel unwelcome. I have asked countless daft questions and have always been given advice no matter how stupid my question is. The advice might not be what I wanted to hear, but I didn't join this forum for a pat on the back and to be told I'm doing everything right, I joined for help and advice which I've taken on board.

It seems to be the same members time and time again, going out of their way to give advice.. and then having it thrown back in their faces by someone playing the bully card, yelling "keyboard warriors" and acting like hurt little bunnies. It's not only ungrateful but it's also very childish.

If there is a chance you are going to be easily offended by the advice you may be given, then please don't ask for help on a public forum.

If you're willing to accept excellent advice and take any criticisms on the chin like an adult, you'll find this forum an extremely useful place for you and your pet(s)

Moan over


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

Nettles said:


> It seems to be mentioned quite often that new members aren't made to feel welcome on this forum.
> 
> I've only been here since June this year so I'm a new member. I've never once been made to feel unwelcome. I have asked countless daft questions and have always been given advice no matter how stupid my question is. The advice might not be what I wanted to hear, but I didn't join this forum for a pat on the back and to be told I'm doing everything right, I joined for help and advice which I've taken on board.
> 
> ...


Got to agree with all of the above although I still class myself as a new member even though I joined nearly 2 years ago I have been through hell and back with my little dog and don't think I could have got through it all without the help and support of the members of this forum. I have asked for a lot of advice during those 2 years and always received good sound advice sometimes had rather short maybe sharp responses but took them on the chin because the advice was always sound if all you want is to be told how well you are doing and that everything you do is right DON'T come on a public forum where people are passionate about the subject because that is not what you will get. What you will get is good HONEST advice weather it is what you want to hear or not


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

I agree in part with what's being said but in some instances its not what is being said its how its being said that makes new comers feel unwelcome.

Now having been here almost a year I let most comments wash over me but I admit at the beginning I did feel unwelcome.

The other issue I have and see a lot of are threads being derailed when certain subjects come up especially when a new comer mentions how they got their dogs then all hell breaks loose and some members get a bit over passionate about it. This definitely makes new comers sorry they ever posted.

I know experienced dog owners here have seen these types of posts time and time again and have last the will to sugar coat things, that's fine but take a moment to think about the op its their first post they might have a very sick puppy on their hands and feel totally out of their depth. Would you want to be bombarded with posts about how silly you were to buy a dog from such and such a place.

It would be nicer to new comers to give them the advice they require and once the crisis is over for them have a gentle word about where they got their pup.

But then that's just my personal opinion


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nettles said:


> It seems to be the same members time and time again, going out of their way to give advice


You don't see why this may be a *the *problem?

A few people that squash any others opinions can't be good. If it's factual advice then that is different but many many times it is is just the opinion of those that shout loudest and those with a differing opinion just can't be bothered any more

And I'm nowhere near a newbie 

How long have all these advisors been here?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

You will also find certain members can't wait to join threads like these to air their personal vendetta's  ahhh the joys of PF....


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

well we all have to have something to out of bed for in the mornings..... besides walking the dog


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Bottom line is, manners cost nothing. If people wouldn't be rude to another person in real life, then they shouldn't do it on a forum. But they do, and get away with it.*


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> *Bottom line is, manners cost nothing. If people wouldn't be rude to another person in real life, then they shouldn't do it on a forum. But they do, and get away with it.*


Here Here !!!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Here we go..

Not aimed at you @Nettles but threads like this always go the same way...Now is the time for the select few to make those with less than stellar wordsmith skills feel rubbish  One of the reasons I am careful about which threads to take part in these days 

You aren't allowed to say that you found the forum welcoming, it doesn't sit well with some


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

Whilst I will say that some can be very sharp in their replies, I have to say that I cannot, for the life of me understand someone who bounces on to any specifically themed forum, posts a question that shows that they have bought a living sentient being without any research, ask a question, get a few tough replies (as you will anywhere on the internet I'm afraid) and then have a full on, cape flinging, how very dare you attack my honour flounce. 

It seems that the best form of defence is attack, a character trait that two people in my own house have and one that drives me batty. 

Yes, people make thumping great mistakes but to then deny them, accuse others of bullying and try to turn the whole situation around to look like you have been a victim never sits well. 

Someone who came on here and said, 'do you know what? I think I've been very stupid and bought a puppy from somewhere not very nice and he's really not well/exhibiting worrying behaviour/I think I'm in over my head would get far more help in the long run than 
'No, this puppy is from a proper breeder, I don't like the fact that you are all calling my puppy buying skills into question and it's none of your business how I fix problems, you bunch of big fat know it all dog bullies'. 

If you are going to come on a forum without having a bit of a poke about before hand to see what's what, ask a question and maybe get a few blunt answers and then throw a hissy fit when you aren't patted on the head and given a biscuit, you are going to struggle my friend.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't disagree with with you Mrsred but I do think the hissy fit might not be so bad if people tended to stick to answering the question being asked rather than dissecting the whole situation.

Yes you might get a hand full of people coming here to just put a stick in the hornets nest and wiggle it about a bit to see what the reaction is but the majority of the new comers come here because they feel overwhelmed at the situation they are in.

They probably already know deep down that they have been silly / made a mistake but at least they are trying to resolve it and ask for advice. I think its unhelpful for others to then pile on the guilt even more.

I will hold my hands up... we did research and chose a breed we thought would suit us, we didn't go into it blindly, or so we thought, but there is one hell of a lot of difference between looking at all the information out there and the first night of having a crying pup in your home and suddenly feeling you might have made a mistake.

That was when I came here looking for advice, after 4 weeks of sleepless nights my wife , god bless her, was at breaking point. I got some great advice on the whole from people here but I also got to be made unwelcome by some for not spending years and years of research before I took the plunge or for not doing this or that before hand.

I came away feel slightly let down and wondering what to do next, luckily that night Alfie slept through for the first time and after a good nights sleep both my wife and I made a plan to try to make it work using some of the advice given here. 11 months later we are a very happy family.

It doesn't matter what the question is, to be made to feel you are a total brainless numpty ... and I'm sorry some people do make new comers feel that way.... is not very helpful as far as I'm concerned


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

jamat said:


> people tended to stick to answering the question being asked rather than dissecting the whole situation.


Sometimes dissecting the situation is the only way to get a clear answer. Do you stick to the question asked and only the question asked in real life, or do you ask a few more questions if the need arises?

See, I always ask 

If people would just stop adding emotion to a block of text then we wouldn't have nearly as many spats on here 

I have been called many names on this forum, and even had some try to take it to other forums and FB...yet I'm the bully (not saying you have called me this, but it has been thrown in my face on many occasions) because I don't dress my replies up in glitter and rainbows 

Yes some here are down and out rude...but it isn't the ones putting themselves out there to help people where they can


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

The flip side of that coin is that those who troll the forum, signing up just to cause trouble and sh!t stir. Long-standing members have seen it all, and when a newcomer does come and ask something controversial, it can be hard for even long-standing members to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The worst place for this, is Breeding forum. For every thread (like Bessiedog's) that's started having done everything right, there's an idiot that wants to breed their 1y/o staffy bitch to the Mal next door because "it's her right to be a mummy" or because "the babies would look sooooooo cute", or they didn't think that they need to keep their own staffy male and pug bitch separated during her season, didn't supervise, let the pregnancy continue until it's conveniently too late to give the mismate jab and then join up with "don't shout at me - it was an accident! ... I need advice". (Breeds used for example only ... Although....)

And of course, it's the same members posting advice time and time again. Advice that the OP just doesn't want to hear, so gets ignored, and the bully card gets played.

I disagree that the origins of the dog/s are what gets people's backs up. I've openly admitted my 2 were from the local pound, no home visits/checks, just pick your dog off the shelf (not literally), pay up, and take it home, no questions asked. I believe people have also acquired their dogs from the freeads, and admitted it, without getting a grilling. In my case, I may not have all the experience of.some.of the members but I live alone, not many visitors and thanks to Milly, I've learned a hell of a lot about just what I can cope with and what I can't. 

I'm the first to admit that the pound is the very last place my dogs will be returned to if I can't keep them for any reason, (at his age, and given his health problems, Max would be PTS now) and in the early days, I even had a rescue lined up ready to call to take Milly away. Never did make that call, and thanks to her antics these past few days, I'm glad I didn't! 

I've also learned a lot. I'm hoping my next dog will be a pedigree poodle, but if I don't go to a reputable breeder (and I know how to spot one thanks to this forum), I'll be checking more reputable rescues than where I got The Mutts from.

I think it's the attitude and dedication more than what/where/how you got your dog/raise it/breed it that gets people backs up. If you post for advice and then decide you don't like the advice and lash out, then yeah, people are going to respond like for like. If you accept that you've gone wrong, but show a full commitment to the dog and do the best you can for it, then you'll get a completely different response. If you're intending to breed purely for greed or selfish reasons, then expect people to pull you up on it, because those same people who do have learned those same lessons the hard way, or seen the fallout first hand.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

jamat said:


> *I don't disagree with with you Mrsred but I do think the hissy fit might not be so bad if people tended to stick to answering the question being asked rather than dissecting the whole situatio*n.


Its a bit like the holistic approach to medicine though.  A person may go to the doctors (or take pet to the vet) complaining about one symptom but the doctor/vet (because they are experienced in these things) may ask questions that seem unconnected when in fact they are getting to the route of the problem. For instance one of my previous dogs was weak on his back legs, couldn't manage to get in and out of the car or jump up on the bed any more, we assumed arthritis and so did the first vet we saw but when my own vet came back and asked questions that seemed totally unrelated he diagnosed a heart condition and within a couple of weeks on medication dog was bouncing around again like a puppy. Same with problems on here, where the dog came from can be very relevant to things like separation anxiety/fear etc because pups bought from puppy farms and some BYB may have been kept in very poor conditions and not socialised/handled. I am yet to read a post on here where someone genuinely asks for help without throwing a hissy fit at the first critical sounding comment and doesn't get that advice and help.

I also find it odd that people who complain in threads like this about those who do offer advice particularly in training and behaviour are rarely seen there offering to help or rarely seen offering to help when situations do break down and rescue places are needed.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Bottom line is, manners cost nothing. If people wouldn't be rude to another person in real life, then they shouldn't do it on a forum. But they do, and get away with it.*


I am polite on here compared to what I am in real life.

But I will say again why do certain people only ever feel the need to contribute to dog chat when threads like these come up?


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

You raise all valid points Linznmilly  but just because a person doesn't necessarily take your advice on board doesn't give anyone the right to then make they feel unwelcome.

Perhaps they didn't think the advice was right for them but someone else's advice might have felt a better fit , people are allowed to pick and choose what they feel is right for them without being made to feel bad about it.

I also admit there are some who post that don't take any of the advice on board and that I can see is very frustrating to those giving the advice in the first place but you can't make people do what they don't want to do... Perhaps these people shouldn't post on here but they do and we all, new and old timers , need to accept that and roll with it in some way.

The other incident that seems to get heat round here is when advice is given and no reply seems to be returned... yes this can be frustrating and rude but it is still no grounds to start belittling the OP when they are not around to defend themselves.

sometimes, and I've been at fault for doing this on forums, you are bombarded with so many replies that you forget to reply to each post that you get.... it happens.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jamat said:


> You raise all valid points Linznmilly  but just because a person doesn't necessarily take your advice on board doesn't give anyone the right to then make they feel unwelcome.
> 
> Perhaps they didn't think the advice was right for them but someone else's advice might have felt a better fit , people are allowed to pick and choose what they feel is right for them without being made to feel bad about it.
> 
> ...


Jamat with all due respect shall those of us who are considered rude just stop helping? Shall we leave it to you , Janice and Rona to answer? Given neither Rona nor Janice participate in dog chat guess it's down to you


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I wa made very welcome when I first joined, nearly 3 years ago and got some excellent advice and support. Some of the advice was a little brusque in it's delivery but generally everyone was very kind at a time of major life changes.
I'm so glad though, that I will never be in a position where I need to ask advice in the Breeding section., this really does bring out the impassioned and opiniated !I agree that questions shoud be answered, advice offered, but it's 'the dissection ' of the situation and going off in tangents thats often not so helpful.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I've seen far too many people needing help be scared off by the I know it all brigade who cannot be wrong. That isn't helping the poor animals.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

FWIW, I was made to feel very unwelcome when I first joined but I'm still here. 

I'm tired of the "tone" conversation. We can't all be Miss Manners in everything we do, and even when you try your hardest to be diplomat of the year in your reply, someone still finds a way to be offended.

If there is something inappropriate going on, it needs to be reported and let the mods deal with it.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I joined the forum in 2008.
When I joined I got involved in some heated threads on Bull breeds, breeding crossbreeds, poor breeding practices etc. My opinions were disected and often destroyed - I bought crossbreeds from breeders - but never did I feel personally attacked, maybe I have a thicker skin than most as I can assure you the passionate posters were equally vocal back then.

However it's a catch 22 - because some posters are more active this on one hand keeps the forum busy but on the other this can stop some members from posting, which possibly leads to a one sided point of view or the OP feeling victimised. I do agree more careful wording would often help, I don't agree on only answering the question - more information is often needed to do so plus conversations are fluid they evolve and change.

But I must stress no-one has ever been mean about my mutts nor have I seen anyone be so against any individual dog or puppy, although breeding/rescue is in crisis in the UK and it is something that people continue to need educating about.
It is however very sad to see members scared off - people need to feel able to join in, this way they will learn so much more.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Meezey said:


> Jamat with all due respect shall those of us who are considered rude just stop helping? Shall we leave it to you , Janice and Rona to answer? Given neither Rona nor Janice participate in dog chat guess it's down to you


Meezey please don't get me wrong I'm definitely not saying you should not give advice, far from it I'm just saying... there's nought stranger than folk... and we all have to accept people won't always do what we want them to.

I value all input people give to my questions and I learned early on not to take it all personally.... I nearly unsubscribed a few months ago but realised I was being over sensitive

But people that give advice also need to be less sensitive too when they don't get the response from the OP they were expecting.

Basically we all need to give and take


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> FWIW, I was made to feel very unwelcome when I first joined but I'm still here.
> 
> I'm tired of the "tone" conversation. We can't all be Miss Manners in everything we do, and even when you try your hardest to be diplomat of the year in your reply, someone still finds a way to be offended.
> 
> If there is something inappropriate going on, it needs to be reported and let the mods deal with it.


I reread on of my first threads on here in cat and dog chat neither were pleasant. Remember getting a right kicking when I asked how many dogs are too many.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I was made to feel welcome here when I first joined, and I was a lurker beforehand. I think it depends on how new posters go about introducing themselves to the forum too. I started with a genuine introductory thread and then pictures of Missy & Ty and was met with a lot of warm welcomes. Had I come on here, all guns blazing, posting controversial subjects I would have expected to get people's back up. While I appreciate this is an open forum where members can sign up and ask for help and advice straight off the bat, I do think it leaves less room for established members to judge the OP's situation well as we don't 'know' them if that makes sense?

As I said in another thread. This forum is friendly & fun, but only with likeminded people  Come on here calling people out, hating the advice you're given and generally acting rude and disrespectful ( as a few new members of late have been ) then you're going to be met with hostility back.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Surely this forum isnt any different then any other??
Some new members are temperamental and bitchy, some old members are rude and grumpy....the majority of people fall into the mellow middle ground. Its just the bitchy and rude tend to make more noise so seem to be omnipresent! (Kinda like how Russell Brand seems to be everywhere).


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

When you are ill or your pet is ill and you need medical assistance do you need it to be dressed up in fluffy terms or want it straight? I sometimes think that people are divided into straight talkers who also want their advice given to them straight and fluffy people who talk in riddles going round the houses and who need their advice to be given in fluffy speak too. However what never ceases to amaze me is how those fluffy people fly out with insults when they don't like how a straight talker presents things. Personally I'm a straight talker (although I do try not to be rude) and I like my doctor and my vet to be straight talkers too. I'm really not interested in the fluffy bits, cut to the chase and tell it like it is.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jamat said:


> Meezey please don't get me wrong I'm definitely not saying you should not give advice, far from it I'm just saying... there's nought stranger than folk... and we all have to accept people won't always do what we want them to.
> 
> I value all input people give to my questions and I learned early on not to take it all personally.... I nearly unsubscribed a few months ago but realised I was being over sensitive
> 
> ...


We do, but sadly what happens on threads like this is those who have personal issues with member come out of the wood work crying about the "know it all" the "chosen ones" and all that guff, sadly those they refer to are often the most knowledgeable and helpful, these threads shouldn't become about sticking the knife in other members, more so when those members are rarely in dog chat, and rarely give advise, they are hardly shrinking violets themselves and are often rude to people themselves, it's all good and well people trying to make people be nice, but not when others are using this as a personal platform to deal with personal vendetta's.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

I used to participate on another very busy dog forum. 
Somewhere along the line a few members decided that the forum in general was too rough on people seeking breeding help (and to be fair, if you joined hoping to get advice on how to breed or problems with breeding, you'd get ripped a new one. If you think this forum is rough, that one was... LOL!). 
Anyway, first they divided the forum up so there was a breeding "help" section and a breeding "discussion" section. Members were only allowed to have opinions on the breeding discussion section and the help was just for help. Okay, fair enough.

But still the tone conversation persisted and the "it's not what you say but how you say it" folks persisted, and eventually the mods started cracking down on anyone who didn't sugar coat every reply. 
Little by little, the forum died. Like literally died. 

I logged back in about a month ago, and a forum that used to have active users in the hundreds was down to 7 posters. SEVEN. When I logged in - evening my time (it's a US forum) there were 3 members online. Back in that forum's heyday that number would have been 50 or 60. It made me sad...


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

jamat said:


> But people that give advice also need to be less sensitive too when they don't get the response from the OP they were expecting.
> 
> Basically we all need to give and take


Not really sure what you're trying to say here... When you're getting an advice from someone you have two choices: a) accept the advice and be grateful; b) don't accept the advice and tell everyone to feck off and go to hell because you know better and no one knows you or your dog or the lovely lady from gumtree that sold you the pup. The correct choice would be A. Unfortunately, most of the time people choose to go with B. Why should people who take time to give an advice (no matter how it is worded) accept crap from newbies? Frankly, most of these new members who come in "for advice" are just trolls. After 2 years on here I can honestly say this is the first forum where I've seen people actually taking time to reply to every single new thread asking for help even when theres dozens of the same threads discussing the same thing. Most other forums just give a link to the other threads. I honestly think that people should just save some of the advice on a word document and copy-paste them. The new threads can be grouped according to topic "i have a 6 week old puppy and don't know what to feed it", "i just brought a puppy home and he's been having diarrhoea for a week", "my puppy is really ill but I don't want to go to see a vet", "my puppy was supposed to he xxx but he's growing up to look more like thy - can I get my money back?" , "i got a puppy who was to young to be separated from his mother and now I have no idea how to deal with the normal puppy problems".
Honestly, hats off to the people who never get tired of answering the same questions and actually get involved in the arguments. I used to be an active member of several dog forums but over 2 years I ran out of patience and tolerance to the trolls and people who buy a living being first and only then go looking for instructions on how to make sure that this being doesn't die.
PS. I think that the less tolerance will be shown to byb supporters, the more people who just lurk and are doing some research before getting a dog will realise that it is unacceptable way of purchasing a dog. That's exactly how I learned. The only way to deal with the problem is prevention. People should not expect that they may be one of the lucky ones who "save" a puppy from a byb or a farm and never have any problems. It genuinely angers me that when discussing bybs and ethical breeders a lot of people focus only on the health of the purchased dog = less vet fees = more money saved in long term. Somehow, it is not enough to tell people "You shouldn't buy a cheap dog from byb or farm because it's morally wrong to financially support such immoral business.".


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> I am polite on here compared to what I am in real life.
> 
> But I will say again why do certain people only ever feel the need to contribute to dog chat when threads like these come up?


*I for one decided ages ago not to put my opinion in dog chat. There are a few that just love to put others down if their opinions differer from the few who always stick to dog chat. *


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Meezey said:


> We do, but sadly what happens on threads like this is those who have personal issues with member come out of the wood work crying about the "know it all" the "chosen ones" and all that guff, sadly those they refer to are often the most knowledgeable and helpful, these threads shouldn't become about sticking the knife in other members, more so when those members are rarely in dog chat, and rarely give advise, they are hardly shrinking violets themselves and are often rude to people themselves, it's all good and well people trying to make people be nice, but not when others are using this as a personal platform to deal with personal vendetta's.


I agree with your there to


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one decided ages ago not to put my opinion in dog chat. There are a few that just love to put others down if their opinions differer from the few who always stick to dog chat. *


Yet you always feel the need to when these threads come up?

I don't post in General that often for the very reasons you don't post in Dog Chat, nor do I post in Cat Chat for the same reason, such is life. Your hardly a shrinking violet Janice, if you chose not to post you chose not to, you can't then spit your dummy out when there are more frequent and visible posters..Just like I would not go in to General or Cat chat to complain about the more forceful, visible often rude posters in there...


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> Not really sure what you're trying to say here... When you're getting an advice from someone you have two choices: a) accept the advice and be grateful; b) don't accept the advice and tell everyone to feck off and go to hell because you know better and no one knows you or your dog or the lovely lady from gumtree that sold you the pup. The correct choice would be A. Unfortunately, most of the time people choose to go with B. Why should people who take time to give an advice (no matter how it is worded) accept crap from newbies? Frankly, most of these new members who come in "for advice" are just trolls. After 2 years on here I can honestly say this is the first forum where I've seen people actually taking time to reply to every single new thread asking for help even when theres dozens of the same threads discussing the same thing. Most other forums just give a link to the other threads. I honestly think that people should just save some of the advice on a word document and copy-paste them. The new threads can be grouped according to topic "i have a 6 week old puppy and don't know what to feed it", "i just brought a puppy home and he's been having diarrhoea for a week", "my puppy is really ill but I don't want to go to see a vet", "my puppy was supposed to he xxx but he's growing up to look more like thy - can I get my money back?" , "i got a puppy who was to young to be separated from his mother and now I have no idea how to deal with the normal puppy problems".
> Honestly, hats off to the people who never get tired of answering the same questions and actually get involved in the arguments. I used to be an active member of several dog forums but over 2 years I ran out of patience and tolerance to the trolls and people who buy a living being first and only then go looking for instructions on how to make sure that this being doesn't die.
> PS. I think that the less tolerance will be shown to byb supporters, the more people who just lurk and are doing some research before getting a dog will realise that it is unacceptable way of purchasing a dog. That's exactly how I learned. The only way to deal with the problem is prevention. People should not expect that they may be one of the lucky ones who "save" a puppy from a byb or a farm and never have any problems. It genuinely angers me that when discussing bybs and ethical breeders a lot of people focus only on the health of the purchased dog = less vet fees = more money saved in long term. Somehow, it is not enough to tell people "You shouldn't buy a cheap dog from byb or farm because it's morally wrong to financially support such immoral business.".


To be fair, and I agree with some of your points  , not all new comers choose B most either take the advice or not end of story.

What I was trying to get across in my comment you quoted, which I might have totally failed to to  , was that if someone doesn't take the advice offered that the device giver really just needs to accept that the OP is that type of person and not be so sensitive about it.

Passions run high when it comes to pets, whether, dogs, cats, mice etc and this can cloud peoples judgement and make people more sensitive to certain preserved slights. 
Some posters don't realise they have upset someone else in their replies and some do it for the reaction factor. As Meezey I think said in an earlier post its difficult to see the genuine OPs from the trouble makers sad but true 

Perhaps there isn't an answer to this but I would hope that people thought a little more about how they word things in their replies sometimes before they pressed send. Again I'm not squeaky clean in this respect I have been very rude in threads (not here) in the past and always once I've re read what I've said give myself a good kicking for posting it.

Electronic medium is the worse type of medium to get the whole "I meant this not this" thing wrong. Humans are very visual when communicating and forums take away that face to face element which would give people the visual cues that their replies where not being well received ... its a difficult thing to deal with .....

I'll step off my soap box now as I'm getting vertigo and a nose bleed from being so high up  and don't want to be seen as a rabid daisy chain, tree hugging lets love each other and be nice advocate, I'm a big Welshman and hate daises ...


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ouesi said:


> I used to participate on another very busy dog forum.
> Somewhere along the line a few members decided that the forum in general was too rough on people seeking breeding help (and to be fair, if you joined hoping to get advice on how to breed or problems with breeding, you'd get ripped a new one. If you think this forum is rough, that one was... LOL!).
> Anyway, first they divided the forum up so there was a breeding "help" section and a breeding "discussion" section. Members were only allowed to have opinions on the breeding discussion section and the help was just for help. Okay, fair enough.
> 
> ...


That is really sad and fairly horrible that so many posters are only interested in being rather nasty.

I go on a well moderated horse forum and no one would dream of being rude to anyone. There can be fairly forceful opinions but honestly they are never put over in the way that some posters put their opinions on here. Ousei, you seem able to say exactly the same thing as others and not put any backs up, maybe a few posters should learn from you.
I used to go on a couple of other horse forums that were dreadful. One closed and the other became moderated and less 'interesting'. Most people migrated to the one I am on now.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Yet you always feel the need to when these threads come up?
> 
> I don't post in General that often for the very reasons you don't post in Dog Chat, nor do I post in Cat Chat for the same reason, such is life. Your hardly a shrinking violet Janice, if you chose not to post you chose not to, you can't then spit your dummy out when there are more frequent and visible posters..Just like I would not go in to General or Cat chat to complain about the more forceful, visible often rude posters in there...


*I think you have misunderstood my post. I can live without posting in dog chat. As for me spitting my dummy out, lmao how did that come about?*
*People i think know me well enough to know i don't shy away from anyone, but i appreciate there are many that are not so broad shouldered.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I do wonder how people function in every day life? I've had a wonderful diverse life, people from different walks of life, with real passions, people who wanted to be heard and would make themselves heard, people who controlled rooms of people with sheer will of personality, been shouted at in my job,called names and been the victim of sexual discrimination and other keek stuff, it's life poo happens, only YOU can chose how you deal with it, and real life you either chose to deal with it, or avoid it or be bitter and carry a chip on your shoulder about how you react to peoples treatment of you.

Oddly I do try to be sensitive I do try to be nice and polite, but I can't control how people chose to feel or read something.

Keyboard warrior comments and bet they would not be like that face to face make me laugh and shake my head. If only those who use it could meet me lol


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Meezey said:


> I do wonder how people function in every day life? I've had a wonderful diverse life, people from different walks of life, with real passions, people who wanted to be heard and would make themselves heard, people who controlled rooms of people with sheer will of personality, been shouted at in my job,called names and been the victim of sexual discrimination and other keek stuff, it's life poo happens, only YOU can chose how you deal with it, and real life you either chose to deal with it, or avoid it or be bitter and carry a chip on your shoulder about how you react to peoples treatment of you.
> 
> Oddly I do try to be sensitive I do try to be nice and polite, but I can't control how people chose to feel or read something.
> 
> Keyboard warrior comments and bet they would not, be like that make me laugh and shake my head. If only those who use it could meet me lol


Would only be willing to meet you face to face if you left your pack at home  your little frenchie looks to be a right bruiser


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think you have misunderstood my post. I can live without posting in dog chat. As for me spitting my dummy out, lmao how did that come about?*
> *People i think know me well enough to know i don't shy away from anyone, but i appreciate there are many that are not so broad shouldered.*


Well then if you feel so much about it, why not come down and help those who do struggle by offering advise in a non know it all way, so they don't feel put down?


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

Blitz said:


> That is really sad and fairly horrible that so many posters are only interested in being rather nasty.


No.. they weren't nasty, they were just frustrated with so many people who shouldn't be breeding asking what to do, how to breed their shitzadoodlepug with their giant husky or whatever. But in general they were nice people, just direct. Helpful, good, salt of the earth people who would give you the shirt off their back, but just don't suffer fools.



Blitz said:


> I go on a well moderated horse forum and no one would dream of being rude to anyone. There can be fairly forceful opinions but honestly they are never put over in the way that some posters put their opinions on here. Ousei, you seem able to say exactly the same thing as others and not put any backs up, maybe a few posters should learn from you.
> I used to go on a couple of other horse forums that were dreadful. One closed and the other became moderated and less 'interesting'. Most people migrated to the one I am on now.


Oh god, I get plenty of backs up, trust me!
Which is a good point really. I piss off enough people yet you find me more measured. So much of it just boils down to perception. You and I "get" each other so we don't infer rudeness from each other's posts even when we're disagreeing. But others just miss by a mile no matter what. C'est la vie right?

So as forum members, how are we supposed to formulate a reply that works for everyone? You just can't. Some people want you to be direct, others want sugar coating and find being direct rude, those who prefer the direct approach find sugar coating condescending... Some of us are more verbose than others, sometimes we're on our phone and the shorter reply sounds curt... It's unnavigable waters really. 
In the end we can only be who we are and post as who we are.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

But a forum is no different to any other place. If you go to a party or a coffee shop gathering for instance and join a table or group discussing something you might or might not agree with then you either join in and make your point or you move on to the next table/group just like on here you can move on to other threads or other poster's opinions. In RL you will also meet some people who have strong opinions and are passionate about the subject being discussed whereas some will be less so and others couldn't give a damn. 

I'm not sure what we are supposed to do if someone is giving incorrect or cruel advice - ignore it? challenge it? or just say well now it might be nice if you didn't hit your dog because it piddled on the floor but well if you have to try not to hit it hard. Sorry but if someone comes on here calling their dog unpleasant names, advising other people to smack their dogs, talking about breeding their puppy (yes we had one not that long ago complaining that they couldn't get the KC paperwork) then I'm going to tell them straight what I think, my first response is usually polite but if they persist then I will be blunt. However I will and have report posts that are bullying or down right nasty/abusive, that is what the report button is for.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Haha! Now I feel a little hypocritical because I don't post on here as much as I used to.

Nothing to do with new members popping up and asking questions but more to do with certain other members. Those members who thrive on sh*t stirring and starting something out of nothing. Or then, when healthy debates start (part and parcel of a forum), there's always someone who rocks up throwing the 'you're all bullies' card.

It's childish!

Thankfully, I talk to most of the members I'm closest to, on Facebook. If it wasn't for Facebook, I'd probably be round here more often as there's people I've 'met' through PF that I wouldn't be without now.

People are quick to forget that there are some amazing people here who have years of experience and who give their time and advice because they're GOOD people. They don't get paid. They don't need to be here...

They're very much taken for granted and that's not on.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I like coming to this forum to mostly interact with other people who have the same interests as me because with my 'real life' I don't really have any friends because I have moved alot over the years and then I struggle to really make any lasting ones, so coming here helps cheer me up on my sad dark days and as I say I enjoy reading peoples thread, seeing peoples photos, or asking for advice myself etc.

I think I'd be quite lost without this forum, quite sad really I suppose but as I say, I don't really have much in the outside world - except my lovely animals obviously  and my OH and my family - but they don't live nearby 

I usually avoid the really heated discussions.

I think its lovely how people go out of their way to help other people, for free, and can give the most helpful of information! Especially we regards to diet, training, behaviour etc. I think its fantastic and such a privilege to have such intelligent, kind, knowledgeable people on this forum.

Also from this forum I have met the odd person outside of the forum, which is nice, as we can go for nice walks and talk about what we love...dogs


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> But a forum is no different to any other place. If you go to a party or a coffee shop gathering for instance and join a table or group discussing something you might or might not agree with then you either join in and make your point or you move on to the next table/group just like on here you can move on to other threads or other poster's opinions. In RL you will also meet some people who have strong opinions and are passionate about the subject being discussed whereas some will be less so and others couldn't give a damn.
> 
> I'm not sure what we are supposed to do if someone is giving incorrect or cruel advice - ignore it? challenge it? or just say well now it might be nice if you didn't hit your dog because it piddled on the floor but well if you have to try not to hit it hard. Sorry but if someone comes on here calling their dog unpleasant names, advising other people to smack their dogs, talking about breeding their puppy (yes we had one not that long ago complaining that they couldn't get the KC paperwork) then I'm going to tell them straight what I think, my first response is usually polite but if they persist then I will be blunt. However I will and have report posts that are bullying or down right nasty/abusive, that is what the report button is for.


I have never seen anyone suggest hitting a dog - but there are more ways than one to successfully train a dog and I have seen some on here fly at people that use different methods and call them cruel.
Also a lot of people that come on here are normal every day people, not dog fanatics. They want to discuss normal every day things that they want to do with their dogs and cannot understand being attacked because their dog (like most ordinary every day people that breed) has not been health tested, or did not come from health tested parents (again like most dogs). A lot of the replies are totally inappropriate for the person that has come on. Explain politely if you want but do not try and ram your passionate beliefs down a new posters throat when it is obvious they will not understand or appreciate it. (that is not aimed just at you RP, it was just you I quoted.)


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I used to participate on another very busy dog forum.
> Somewhere along the line a few members decided that the forum in general was too rough on people seeking breeding help (and to be fair, if you joined hoping to get advice on how to breed or problems with breeding, you'd get ripped a new one. If you think this forum is rough, that one was... LOL!).
> Anyway, first they divided the forum up so there was a breeding "help" section and a breeding "discussion" section. Members were only allowed to have opinions on the breeding discussion section and the help was just for help. Okay, fair enough.
> 
> ...


Seen that on a certain fishkeeping forum that I used to be a member of. All it took was the departure of one member - one member that really did know his onions, was direct and to the point in his replies, but really knew his stuff! Like yours, the forum in question used to have 40-60 members logged in, and even more guests, but the Be Nice Brigade won and after he left, he took with him all of us who knew what we were talking about ... Last time I went back, there were 20 guests and no one logged in.

So to this forum's BNB, take note. You might want flowers and rainbows for advice, given in a nice "tone", but when the chips are down, those who need and want genuine advice want the ones who actually do "know it all", who may not be nice and sweet, but will go out of their way to do what they can.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Ive been on the forum for some years now and there is a keyboard mafia on here who seem to think all must bow down, sod that lol


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Well then if you feel so much about it, why not come down and help those who do struggle by offering advise in a non know it all way, so they don't feel put down?[/QUOTE





Blitz said:


> I have never seen anyone suggest hitting a dog - but there are more ways than one to successfully train a dog and I have seen some on here fly at people that use different methods and call them cruel.
> Also a lot of people that come on here are normal every day people, not dog fanatics. They want to discuss normal every day things that they want to do with their dogs and cannot understand being attacked because their dog (like most ordinary every day people that breed) has not been health tested, or did not come from health tested parents (again like most dogs). A lot of the replies are totally inappropriate for the person that has come on. Explain politely if you want but do not try and ram your passionate beliefs down a new posters throat when it is obvious they will not understand or appreciate it. (that is not aimed just at you RP, it was just you I quoted.)


*And how many times does a newbie come on here and say they have mated their dog, and need advice. Only to be shouted down about why they haven't health tested? Most people don't even know the difference between health tested and vet checked.*
*So they leave the forum worse off than when they joined.*


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Seen that on a certain fishkeeping forum that I used to be a member of. All it took was the departure of one member - one member that really did know his onions, was direct and to the point in his replies, but really knew his stuff! Like yours, the forum in question used to have 40-60 members logged in, and even more guests, but the Be Nice Brigade won and after he left, he took with him all of us who knew what we were talking about ... Last time I went back, there were 20 guests and no one logged in.
> 
> So to this forum's BNB, take note. You might want flowers and rainbows for advice, given in a nice "tone", but when the chips are down, those who need and want genuine advice want the ones who actually do "know it all", who may not be nice and sweet, but will go out of their way to do what they can.


Oh God I hope I haven't come across as one of those BNB ... if it gets out I am I'll be stripped of my Welsh citizenship 

I'm not asking for advice to to be sugar coated but I would just like to see posts be a little less rude or threads to not deteriorate into a mud slinging match ... I can handle straight talking straightforward to the point advice... What I can't stand is it being delivered on a wave of rudeness


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Starlite said:


> Ive been on the forum for some years now and there is a keyboard mafia on here who seem to think all must bow down, sod that lol


Maybe I'm niave but I've never seen this...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I have never seen anyone suggest hitting a dog - but there are more ways than one to successfully train a dog and I have seen some on here fly at people that use different methods and call them cruel.
> Also a lot of people that come on here are normal every day people, not dog fanatics. They want to discuss normal every day things that they want to do with their dogs and cannot understand being attacked because their dog (like most ordinary every day people that breed) has not been health tested, or did not come from health tested parents (again like most dogs). A lot of the replies are totally inappropriate for the person that has come on. Explain politely if you want but do not try and ram your passionate beliefs down a new posters throat when it is obvious they will not understand or appreciate it. (that is not aimed just at you RP, it was just you I quoted.)


But this isn't Yahoo answers where those kind of questions are answered with 'basic' responses. This is a dedicated forum, with more dog enthusiasts than 'average joe' owners. We are going to be more passionate and vocal about dog welfare and all things concerning dog. Also, it can be an opportunity to otherwise educate a clueless owner and hope they make better, informed choices next time.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I have never seen anyone suggest hitting a dog - but there are more ways than one to successfully train a dog and I have seen some on here fly at people that use different methods and call them cruel.
> Also a lot of people that come on here are normal every day people, not dog fanatics. They want to discuss normal every day things that they want to do with their dogs and cannot understand being attacked because their dog (like most ordinary every day people that breed) has not been health tested, or did not come from health tested parents (again like most dogs). A lot of the replies are totally inappropriate for the person that has come on. Explain politely if you want but do not try and ram your passionate beliefs down a new posters throat when it is obvious they will not understand or appreciate it. (that is not aimed just at you RP, it was just you I quoted.)


Have a read of some more threads in T & B, you will find some where advice is given to smack dogs, roll them or keep taking food bowls away from a dog with obvious RG issues, even worse get a young child to do it yet when members try to point out why this is not appropriate and can be dangerous they are accused of being rude. Funny how those very rude members will be the ones back there giving their time and advice free when the dog bites the kid or habitually pees indoors because its been punished and sorting out a rescue place when the whole thing breaks down and the dog has to go.

I can't say as I have seen anyone (even in the breeding section) ram their beliefs down a new posters throat when its obvious they do not understand or appreciate it, time is always taken to explain. I don't really care whether they appreciate it but I do care if they are going to breed yet another litter of staffies that will no doubt end up in rescue or being killed especially when they demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what is involved in breeding/raising pups/responsibly homing and offering a life time of back up to new owners. If I go to my GP complaining that my knees hurt I'm afraid I just have to suck it up if s/he turns round and tells me to lose weight and that will help my knees. I might not appreciate being told I'm overweight but sometimes you have to be told things you don't want to hear.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *And how many times does a newbie come on here and say they have mated their dog, and need advice. Only to be shouted down about why they haven't health tested? Most people don't even know the difference between health tested and vet checked.*
> *So they leave the forum worse off than when they joined.*


So why don't you offer advice?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Starlite said:


> Ive been on the forum for some years now and there is a keyboard mafia on here who seem to think all must bow down, sod that lol


What is a keyboard mafia?


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

There are a few that if i see the thread is by them or have commented on it ill ignore the thread, its not bullying its what you do in really life. If you dont like someone you keep away from them.

I do get fed up of the bully card, ive seen innocent members accused of bullying by people who dont even know what has happened. Some even kicked off the forum because of it or made to feel they arent welcome


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> So why don't you offer advice?


*As i said earlier, i can't be bothered. Leave it to those who choose to do it.*


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i said earlier, i can't be bothered. Leave it to those who choose to do it.*


So if you can't be bothered how does that help those newbies you are worried about? If all the straight talkers couldn't be bothered then there would be a lot of threads with no responses on them.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> But this isn't Yahoo answers where those kind of questions are answered with 'basic' responses. This is a dedicated forum, with more dog enthusiasts than 'average joe' owners. We are going to be more passionate and vocal about dog welfare and all things concerning dog. Also, it can be an opportunity to otherwise educate a clueless owner and hope they make better, informed choices next time.


How does it educate people to rudely tell them that health checked does not mean tested, that lots of dogs are in rescue, that you hope they have millions of pounds in the bank etc etc. Yes, there are some very ill informed people that come on here but I seldom see anyone taking the time to explain clearly to them and giving them options, it is more often a lot of often other very ill informed people parroting those that do know what they are on about without actually explaining anything. Usually the OP will just disappear having only learned one thing and that is that there are some very rude people on this forum.
Just sometimes the same thing is said by someone who does know what they are talking about and is prepared to explain sensibly and politely and often then the OP will take it on board and learn but that seems to be sadly in the minority.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i said earlier, i can't be bothered. Leave it to those who choose to do it.*


Then how can you complain about those who can be bothered? Surely you are every bit as guilty of allowing people to leave worse of than they joined?

You can't complain because you can't be bothered?


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i said earlier, i can't be bothered. Leave it to those who choose to do it.*


I'm sorry, what?

You can't be bothered so you let others do it, but then protest and pop up to say how horrible everyone is?

Strange.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Blitz said:


> How does it educate people to rudely tell them that health checked does not mean tested, that lots of dogs are in rescue, that you hope they have millions of pounds in the bank etc etc. Yes, there are some very ill informed people that come on here but I seldom see anyone taking the time to explain clearly to them and giving them options, it is more often a lot of often other very ill informed people parroting those that do know what they are on about without actually explaining anything. Usually the OP will just disappear having only learned one thing and that is that there are some very rude people on this forum.
> Just sometimes the same thing is said by someone who does know what they are talking about and is prepared to explain sensibly and politely and often then the OP will take it on board and learn but that seems to be sadly in the minority.


So I ask you the same question why don't you take the time to do it?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have a read of some more threads in T & B, you will find some where advice is given to smack dogs, roll them or keep taking food bowls away from a dog with obvious RG issues, even worse get a young child to do it yet when members try to point out why this is not appropriate and can be dangerous they are accused of being rude. Funny how those very rude members will be the ones back there giving their time and advice free when the dog bites the kid or habitually pees indoors because its been punished and sorting out a rescue place when the whole thing breaks down and the dog has to go.
> 
> .


I very seldom go in the training section because I do not want or need advice and I like to train my own way. If points of view are put across in the same way as the breeding section I am not surprised they are accused of being rude.
I wonder why the few rude posters on here cannot take on board that they actually are being rude when they are told so often they are.
I sometimes get accused of being rude in real life, and I would never ever purposely be rude, so I do try and take it on board and temper the way I say things. I do not suffer fools gladly but I can definitely see when other people are OTT about it and are alienating people.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Blitz said:


> How does it educate people to rudely tell them that health checked does not mean tested, that lots of dogs are in rescue, that you hope they have millions of pounds in the bank etc etc. Yes, there are some very ill informed people that come on here but I seldom see anyone taking the time to explain clearly to them and giving them options, it is more often a lot of often other very ill informed people parroting those that do know what they are on about without actually explaining anything. Usually the OP will just disappear having only learned one thing and that is that there are some very rude people on this forum.
> Just sometimes the same thing is said by someone who does know what they are talking about and is prepared to explain sensibly and politely and often then the OP will take it on board and learn but that seems to be sadly in the minority.


Well then that's just a difference of how we read tones, because I do not see any of those points as being rude. They are valid points that should be asked. Sadly with this idea that those kind of things should not be mentioned in fear of 'offending' someone only encourages the BYB/puppy farm market, where no questions need be asked. How is it helping anyone to simply pat a clueless owner on the back and tell them everything will be fine? With the amount of information out there on how/where to buy puppies, breeding, training, etc there really is no excuse for such ignorance IMO.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Meezey said:


> So I ask you the same question why don't you take the time to do it?


Because I am not fanatical about it and I accept that a lot of people breed a litter and have great fun and do it very successfully without worrying about it. At the same time I get very annoyed at some of the totally ignorant people that breed but they are not going to listen anyway so why waste my time.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just an example of recent helpful, and non judgemental responses in B&T

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/help-needed-for-fighting-dogs.415278/#post-1064365644

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/parallel-walking-manchester-request.414937/#post-1064363262

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/bit-of-help-please.415214/

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/dogs-dinner-stand-off.414909/page-2#post-1064361489

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/runner.415238/

There is lots of genuine, helpful, advice to be found here if you have the right attitude


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Blitz said:


> Because I am not fanatical about it and I accept that a lot of people breed a litter and have great fun and do it very successfully without worrying about it. At the same time I get very annoyed at some of the totally ignorant people that breed but they are not going to listen anyway so why waste my time.


See this is what I don't understand, how people can complain about others but yet do nothing to change it? I know you think I am rude, and I wind you up, I am one who also finds you rude also, in fact the 3 most vocal in this thread about rude know it all's, do often come across as rude, one actively targets one or two members in their posts in these threads buy can't see by actively seeking the poster out and find ways to dig at them could be considered bullying. People can't complain about the tone of a forum or conversation and do nothing to change it...


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> The worst place for this, is Breeding forum. For every thread (like Bessiedog's) that's started having done everything right, there's an idiot that wants to breed their 1y/o staffy bitch to the Mal next door because "it's her right to be a mummy" or because "the babies would look sooooooo cute", or they didn't think that they need to keep their own staffy male and pug bitch separated during her season, didn't supervise, let the pregnancy continue until it's conveniently too late to give the mismate jab and then join up with "don't shout at me - it was an accident! ... I need advice". (Breeds used for example only ... Although....)
> 
> .


Just wanted to thank LinznMilly for the mention! Must admit I've been away from the forum for a while - and have to say I got a lovely welcome back, so thank you - but I was concerned putting a post in the breeding section as so many new people didn't know me. So I made myself clear in my first post reminding people and informing newbies that I am (hopefully) doing it right.

When I first joined the forum over 3 years ago I wasn't made to feel unwelcome, but it was like a first day at school when nobody knows anybody else. I felt everyone was cautious, and sometimes I didn't express myself properly, so some of the responses to my posts made me uncomfortable - but even from some of those I learned one hell of a lot!

This forum is incredibly useful - heck, I wouldn't have written a book without everyone's support on here (and a lot of people's input). Albeit I'll still to hear from the person who said another book on showing wasn't needed. Hmmm....

I think, like that class at school there'll be people who will be incredibly friendly and helpful, though perhaps they don't know everything, and may have differing views to you. There'll also be people who are incredibly knowledgeable, and you HOPE you attract them to your thread in order to get some very good advice. And then, they'll be the bullies. People who want to butt in and say something just so they don't feel left out.

If you don't like what's going on, walk away from the thread.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

It's all about a balance between being helpful, and turning people off with the way you word things, I think (the royal you, I'm not speaking to anyone in particular!) I think sometimes it's easy to forget that some people are new to forums, or new to dogs, or animals, or have different perceptions. I'm all for not beating around the bush and being too nicey nicey, but the way things come across in type can be much harsher than the way it's spoken, and people will end up feeling defensive if they are challenged and the whole message and advice just gets lost and wasted. Not everyone has a thick skin, at the end of the day. 
Example:
Poster A posts about a puppy they are about to buy, which is clearly from a BYB. Which response would be better received?
'Hi, Poster A! Welcome to the forum! Well done for seeking information first before you buy a puppy  From what you have said, I would be concerned about the breeder for a number of reasons: blah blah:'
Or
'Why don't people do some research? I hope you have deep pockets, because you're going to need it. Have you even looked into what health tests that breed needs? '

We're all on here because we care about dogs (and other animals), and if people have taken the time to sign up and post here, then most of the time THEY care too. It might just be in a different way from us.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> Well then that's just a difference of how we read tones, because I do not see any of those points as being rude. They are valid points that should be asked. Sadly with this idea that those kind of things should not be mentioned in fear of 'offending' someone only encourages the BYB/puppy farm market, where no questions need be asked. How is it helping anyone to simply pat a clueless owner on the back and tell them everything will be fine? With the amount of information out there on how/where to buy puppies, breeding, training, etc there really is no excuse for such ignorance IMO.


But you are not educating anyone by chasing them off the forum.



Meezey said:


> See this is what I don't understand, how people can complain about others but yet do nothing to change it? I know you think I am rude, and I wind you up, I am one who also finds you rude also, in fact the 3 most vocal in this thread do often come across as rude, one actively targets one or two members in their posts in these threads buy can't see by actively seeking the poster out and find ways to dig at them could be considered bullying. People can't complain about the tone of a forum or conversation and do nothing to change it...


yes, I do find you really rude very often. I will sometimes retaliate and be rude back but I hope I never start off being rude.
I am not sure who you mean by the 3 most vocal in this thread, there seem to be a lot of vocal people in it. I was interested that Ouesi thinks that other posters find her rude because I honestly never do and I am amazed when you or another poster are being accused of being rude, and certainly seem immensely rude to me and yet one or two will say they are not.

Tell you what, next time I spot the sort of thread that everyone attacks either breeder or new puppy owner I will try and explain to them and see if it works. If I felt strongly that they needed educating doubtless I would join in and try and temper what I said but honestly I do not see the point.


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

Ok heres how I feel as a new person with a mutt, I will happily post answering people if i feel i can help, I have a fair number of pets and quite a bit of patience and experience.

I also have a questions that I dont post however because I am afraid to be thought of as stupid when in reality its stupid not to ask, I posted yesterday and probably shouldn't have in that thread as the actual thread was one that mostly warranted the reaction it got, I as i said had a crappy day yesterday and instantly regretted posting my reply.

I did stay and try to explain myself but I think i only really served to make myself sound daft. I'm honestly not trying to be difficult nor do i want rainbows and flowers I just wanted to explain that when i signed up I was so proud of Harry and the fact that hes honestly such a wonderful dog, reading the many posts on here about how people feel about dogs like hum is quite painful I know hes a rehome and I wouldnt neccesarily have chosen his particular breed (whatever that may be) but I do feel uncomfortable admitting that we dont know what he is entirely and that I have no idea what hes come from, This obviously concerns me greatly and i wish there were ways to find out.
What I think im trying to say is by the time people come here having bought a puppy it really is too late to change it. I would like to see a way to educate people on how to buy a dog properly.

To my shame I wouldnt know where to look in reality for a proper breeder as I have only ever gone through adverts in the paper but I have always spoken at length to the people selling animals and I have always walked away if i havent felt right about them or their animals. BYB can be clever and they will sell you any story to get you to buy their dogs, Is there a section on here like a sticky on good breeders/how to buy a puppy? (appologies but i havent looked)


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

The 3 most vocal about others being rude, are often very rude themselves. I don't mean just rude to me Blitz in general you come across as rude, again it's how people interpret those words. 

There's the difference though those who are vocal often feel they can help change things, maybe not for that person but as a whole because they are passionate about it, they aren't trying to be know it all's or shove their opinions down peoples thoughts they might be the most active posters and that's because like you say others don't post because they don't think they can change things or can't be bothered...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Blitz said:


> But you are not educating anyone by chasing them off the forum.
> 
> yes, I do find you really rude very often. I will sometimes retaliate and be rude back but I hope I never start off being rude.
> I am not sure who you mean by the 3 most vocal in this thread, there seem to be a lot of vocal people in it. I was interested that Ouesi thinks that other posters find her rude because I honestly never do and I am amazed when you or another poster are being accused of being rude, and certainly seem immensely rude to me and yet one or two will say they are not.
> ...


But then it's just a matter of how people read the different responses like I said. I don't see anyone being rude with such responses, and in the most recent threads that have resorted to 'harsher' responses it has been in retaliation IMO to rude and disrespectful new members. We can't all 'know' how some stranger over the internet is going to interpret our posting style.

That said I like to think I've offered helpful advice to genuinely needy and open minded new members. I do think carefully about everything I write, and read, and re-read my responses. If I feel a poster is genuinely trolling and/or goading the members to react I try to stay away rather than continue to add fuel to the fire.

As others have mentioned, if we don't like posters/thread topics we have the choice to simply ignore it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Carzana said:


> Ok heres how I feel as a new person with a mutt, I will happily post answering people if i feel i can help, I have a fair number of pets and quite a bit of patience and experience.
> 
> I also have a questions that I dont post however because I am afraid to be thought of as stupid when in reality its stupid not to ask, I posted yesterday and probably shouldn't have in that thread as the actual thread was one that mostly warranted the reaction it got, I as i said had a crappy day yesterday and instantly regretted posting my reply.
> 
> ...


People are gobshites on here, as seemingly we have no lives, but most of you asked would help you find a good breeder or puppy.

Start a thread and ask  there are lots of threads if you search how to find a good breeder on the forum


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

oh noooo, no more puppies here for a while, the ark is full lol. thank you though


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

@Carzana I am sorry to hear you feel that you have been made to feel 'ashamed' of your lovely Mutt or that you can't post questions 
I have been on this forum for a long time and have never felt I can't post about my mutts. Even in the most heated threads no-one has ever said my dogs are 'bad' but I can accept that the ethics behind their original breeding being questioned.
I currently have one bought from a less than perfect breeder and one rescue.
I previously had a Mutt bought from in hindsight I believe was a puppy dealer with a good story and a rescue pedigree.
Even after all this time I post 'stupid' questions about my dogs and dogs in general.
I have also started threads that have gone off on a tangent that I have simply walked away from as they are no longer relevant to my original question or topic.
Please post more about your boy.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fluffster said:


> It's all about a balance between being helpful, and turning people off with the way you word things, I think (the royal you, I'm not speaking to anyone in particular!) I think sometimes it's easy to forget that some people are new to forums, or new to dogs, or animals, or have different perceptions. I'm all for not beating around the bush and being too nicey nicey, but the way things come across in type can be much harsher than the way it's spoken, and people will end up feeling defensive if they are challenged and the whole message and advice just gets lost and wasted. Not everyone has a thick skin, at the end of the day.
> Example:
> Poster A posts about a puppy they are about to buy, which is clearly from a BYB. Which response would be better received?
> 'Hi, Poster A! Welcome to the forum! Well done for seeking information first before you buy a puppy  From what you have said, I would be concerned about the breeder for a number of reasons: blah blah:'
> ...


Fantastic post Fluffster. Consider yourself green blobbed!


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

Fleur said:


> @Carzana I am sorry to hear you feel that you have been made to feel 'ashamed' of your lovely Mutt or that you can't post questions
> I have been on this forum for a long time and have never felt I can't post about my mutts. Even in the most heated threads no-one has ever said my dogs are 'bad' but I can accept that the ethics behind their original breeding being questioned.
> I currently have one bought from a less than perfect breeder and one rescue.
> I previously had a Mutt bought from in hindsight I believe was a puppy dealer with a good story and a rescue pedigree.
> ...


Thank you, I will, I want to share everything about him as we've (hubs and I) waited 12 years for a dog  I think I should perhaps have posted more and read less as I kind of read bits and thought the dog was the problem when, actually people dont care in regards to the dog but the breeder if that makes sense?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Then how can you complain about those who can be bothered? Surely you are every bit as guilty of allowing people to leave worse of than they joined?
> 
> You can't complain because you can't be bothered?


*Please correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't it you who mentioned the fact that i only came into this because there was trouble? Some weeks/months ago now. Someone had come on here, in this section, ( sorry i can't remember what the problem was), But people were down on them like a ton of bricks.*
*I don't like seeing people ganged up on, especially new members who haven't got a clue how some members tick.*


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Fluffster said:


> It's all about a balance between being helpful, and turning people off with the way you word things, I think (the royal you, I'm not speaking to anyone in particular!) I think sometimes it's easy to forget that some people are new to forums, or new to dogs, or animals, or have different perceptions. I'm all for not beating around the bush and being too nicey nicey, but the way things come across in type can be much harsher than the way it's spoken, and people will end up feeling defensive if they are challenged and the whole message and advice just gets lost and wasted. Not everyone has a thick skin, at the end of the day.
> Example:
> Poster A posts about a puppy they are about to buy, which is clearly from a BYB. Which response would be better received?
> 'Hi, Poster A! Welcome to the forum! Well done for seeking information first before you buy a puppy  From what you have said, I would be concerned about the breeder for a number of reasons: blah blah:'
> ...


I do understand what you are saying but this is where I think perception/life experience/personality come in because those two responses to Poster A read pretty much the same to me and I wouldn't taken offence at either.

One of the things I really like about this forum though is how we can be so passionate with our opinions in one thread and lock horns with other members yet on another thread will be agreeing and liking their posts. Again I try as hard as time allows to respond to threads from newbies/existing members liking their dogs photos yet I notice some of the fluffy/dress it up with glitter members don't bother and are hardly seen on those threads.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes as @Fleur said @Carzana it's a shame you feel as you do about posting here about your boy. Many of us here have crossbreeds, and some like myself, bought in less then ideal circumstances. My oldest dog was bought on the same night we viewed her after being advertised in the local newspaper. Totally not the best way to buy a puppy. But I was young and less knowledgeable then I am now, and rather shamefully I wanted a puppy and kind of jumped at the first ad I saw that I thought my mum would agree to. I don't think I've been met with an ounce of hostility by anyone on here for owning crossbreeds.

Difference is I've educated myself on so many different aspects of dog care and welfare over the years. Being such a dog nerd, that was always a given I guess  but there is a difference in wilful ignorance, and genuinely not knowing any better and being open minded enough to learning more informed choices for the future.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

Blitz said:


> I have never seen anyone suggest hitting a dog - but there are more ways than one to successfully train a dog and I have seen some on here fly at people that use different methods and call them cruel.


I tend to agree the throwing out the "cruel" and "abuse" card is as pointless as throwing out the "bully" card. 
It does absolutely nothing to tell someone considering a shock collar that they are cruel and should not own dogs. I'm with you on that one, and there have been replies to obviously novice dog owners that just make me cringe. We were ALL novices once and I think we ALL have a tendency to forget that we didn't always know it all  

However, I will counter bad advice when I see it. 
Telling someone who's pup is resource guarding that desensitization and counter conditioning doesn't work that they need to try this new age woo woo stuff is not only something I happen to disagree with, it's also potentially dangerous advice as precious time is lost while the owner fumbles around and the dog gets to practice the behavior more and more.

That said, I also know that one of my own character failings is that I can't keep my mouth shut when someone says something I know to be wrong. If someone were to say the capital of the US is New York, I'm going to pipe up and say "no it's not, it's Washington DC." If I know the right answer, I can't not say anything. It's a problem...


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I do think breeding can get bad at times, but it's people are passionate about the puppies they produce and who don't want more to suffer. Often the people who get bully screamed at them are the ones there helping when things get rough.

General chat on the other hand, I don't have a death wish


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Carzana said:


> Thank you, I will, I want to share everything about him as we've (hubs and I) waited 12 years for a dog  I think I should perhaps have posted more and read less as I kind of read bits and thought the dog was the problem when, actually people dont care in regards to the dog but the breeder if that makes sense?


Quite right, nothing to do with the dog, it's the breeders that people tend to question.
I suppose most of here are trying to educate, but there are those who for what ever reason don't wish to hear. On the other hand, people will Google their dogs problem and this Forum will often appear in the listings so hopefully we may help someone far, far away who will never visit this forum.

I'm an intermittent poster really as we are away so often, sometimes without internet or on a PAYG, so it's essential stuff only. Now I'm back for a while! But only tend to post on those threads on subjects I know something about by experience, which actually isn't that huge as although I've had dogs virtually all my life, they have tended to be what is thought of as easy breeds. As I'm very non confrontational, I generally steer clear if a thread goes off and becomes a slanging match, just munch on the popcorn and despair.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Please correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't it you who mentioned the fact that i only came into this because there was trouble? Some weeks/months ago now. Someone had come on here, in this section, ( sorry i can't remember what the problem was), But people were down on them like a ton of bricks.*
> *I don't like seeing people ganged up on, especially new members who haven't got a clue how some members tick.*


You are excused..

Why don't you become active down here then? You can't be bothered to give advice, buy surely if you felt that strong about people 'ganging up" on new members you could actively stop that happening or give the new person non judgemental advice?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Most people I've seen on here don't object to crossbreeds themselves, just bad breeding. If someone came on and said they were breeding their lab bitch to the first passing male lab, no health tests oh and she's a resource guarder, they would get the same reaction as if they wanted to breed her to a poodle.


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

Tbf, it's not all new members getting ganged up on. If it were, none of us would be here as we were all new at some stage. 

Like it or not, if you post something in a public forum, you have no control over who replies, or what that reply will be. A thousand times worse than what I've ever seen on here (and should be an arrestable offence IMO) gets posted on Twitter every day to people who post the most innocuous of things. 

Yes, there are ways to say things and you catch more flies with honey etc etc but the only time I have ever seen things kick off on a newbies post is when they come in to what is a well established forum, members of which are a bit more involved with dogs than joe public, guns blazing with a know it all attitude. 

Sometimes I actually cringe at what gets said, I think to myself that I would be mortified that people with more experience than me were trying to help and instead of taking any of it on board, I become abusive and defensive. 

It wasn't too long ago there was a thread pertaining to a dog that was wholly unsuitable for the posters family and situation and people gave out a bit, then said, well the deeds done now, you will need to do x, y, z for this to work and two fingers were put up at that. Not to mention the golden retriever pup saga. 

What are long term members meant to do, realistically? 
No one knows if posters are telling the truth, if they are going to stick around. It's part of being an adult, not all of life is hand holding and there there's learning to accept responsibility and accepting help when it's offered would sort out many a newbie thread blow up.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> You are excused..
> 
> Why don't you become active down here then? You can't be bothered to give advice, buy surely if you felt that strong about people 'ganging up" on new members you could actively stop that happening or give the new person non judgemental advice?


*What is the point? I have already said it's not worth it. I know nothing about breeding as i haven't ever bred my dogs. But i think i know enough to help someone out, or point them to someone i know will help them and not judge them.*
*Instead of asking me these questions, why not ask all of those that do judge newbies. Perhaps if that topic was addressed more people might stay.*


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

Fluffster said:


> Example:
> Poster A posts about a puppy they are about to buy, which is clearly from a BYB. Which response would be better received?
> 'Hi, Poster A! Welcome to the forum! Well done for seeking information first before you buy a puppy  From what you have said, I would be concerned about the breeder for a number of reasons: blah blah:'


I made an almost identical reply to a poster's first post, and was told months later it was a very rude post. 
I kid you not... Here is my post:


ouesi said:


> Hi, welcome to the forums
> It looks like your first post is an advertisement!
> I'd never heard of this person, and I'm in the US and I like to think somewhat aware of the movers and shakers in the training world, so I figured I would need to look this person up.
> Sorry, not impressed at all  Choke chain, prongs, repeated cues, confused dog, weird handling, "rub a dub" is just a euphemism for a modified alpha roll, it's all just a little to contrived for me. I'm not seeing any effective training in the two videos I watched, and am not reading any useful information in the few things I read.
> ...


Forumites, feel free to pick apart this post of mine I have quoted. I was told this was rude. Can someone tell me what in here was rude?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Most people I've seen on here don't object to crossbreeds themselves, just bad breeding. If someone came on and said they were breeding their lab bitch to the first passing male lab, no health tests oh and she's a resource guarder, they would get the same reaction as if they wanted to breed her to a poodle.


*But what you class as bad breeding could be open for debate. Education is the key surely. If someone knows no better, how can jumping down their throat be doing any good.*


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Not one thing @ouesi - probably just not what they wanted to hear.

I do think we have to bear in mind different people join forums for different reasons. Some do want friendship and to make contacts, some genuinely want advice and some just like causing trouble. Along with a few others I often respond in the health section particularly about orthopaedic operations, sharing my own experience/management etc to new members but not many bother to come back and let us know how their dog is doing after the initial panic about the surgery. When I joined the forum it was to get advice about raw feeding, I picked lots of peoples brains about it and was going to move on until I thought that seemed a bit selfish so I stuck around.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> *What is the point? I have already said it's not worth it. I know nothing about breeding as i haven't ever bred my dogs. But i think i know enough to help someone out, or point them to someone i know will help them and not judge them.*
> *Instead of asking me these questions, why not ask all of those that do judge newbies. Perhaps if that topic was addressed more people might stay.*


I think what @Meezey is asking is: why is it that you can't be bothered to post to help newbies with questions, but you can be bothered to post on this thread that basically bashes people who can be bothered to post on those newbie threads. Even though they might not be as kind as you would like in their posts, at least they are bothering to reply to a newbie, something you seem to be saying you can't be bothered to do. 
Gawd, now my explanation sounds more confusing than clarifying. Oh well, hopefully someone will understand!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

MrRustyRead said:


> There are a few that if i see the thread is by them or have commented on it ill ignore the thread, its not bullying its what you do in really life. If you dont like someone you keep away from them.
> 
> I do get fed up of the bully card, ive seen innocent members accused of bullying by people who dont even know what has happened. Some even kicked off the forum because of it or made to feel they arent welcome


Mmmm indeed...Even stalked on FB at one stage


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I made an almost identical reply to a poster's first post, and was told months later it was a very rude post.
> I kid you not... Here is my post:
> 
> Forumites, feel free to pick apart this post of mine I have quoted. I was told this was rude. Can someone tell me what in here was rude?


It's not rude at all but it is direct and therein lies the rub.

Someone may have put their faith in such a trainer (and a shed load of money, no doubt) and started to see results that were pleasing to them.

Pleased as punch they trundle on here and end up getting a bit of an ego bruising and then kick off, which helps nobody at all.

What more could you have said to make it more pleasant as I'm chuffed if I know.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I made an almost identical reply to a poster's first post, and was told months later it was a very rude post.
> I kid you not... Here is my post:
> 
> Forumites, feel free to pick apart this post of mine I have quoted. I was told this was rude. Can someone tell me what in here was rude?


Ha, some people are just beyond help! Your reply is helpful and polite, so I guess there's no pleasing some people.

I'm just hyper aware of language and tone as I'm an editor by trade!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I made an almost identical reply to a poster's first post, and was told months later it was a very rude post.
> I kid you not... Here is my post:
> 
> Forumites, feel free to pick apart this post of mine I have quoted. I was told this was rude. Can someone tell me what in here was rude?


Definitely not rude, would have said much the same myself if I had the knowledge.

Oh, maybe I'm rude too. Hadn't thought of that.:Wideyed


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ouesi said:


> I think what @Meezey is asking is: why is it that you can't be bothered to post to help newbies with questions, but you can be bothered to post on this thread that basically bashes people who can be bothered to post on those newbie threads. Even though they might not be as kind as you would like in their posts, at least they are bothering to reply to a newbie, something you seem to be saying you can't be bothered to do.
> Gawd, now my explanation sounds more confusing than clarifying. Oh well, hopefully someone will understand!


*Don't worry i know what Meezey is saying. I post on threads like this in the HOPE that one day, posts like this will get it through to some, that the way they give advice isn't always right.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *What is the point? I have already said it's not worth it. I know nothing about breeding as i haven't ever bred my dogs. But i think i know enough to help someone out, or point them to someone i know will help them and not judge them.*
> *Instead of asking me these questions, why not ask all of those that do judge newbies. Perhaps if that topic was addressed more people might stay.*


If you feel that way why don't you help address it? I just struggle to understand how people can judge others on the advise they give, when they can't be bothered to offer any themselves?

If you feel it needs addressed then address it? You can't expect something to change if you can't be bothered to help change it?

Can you seriously not see how your comments are coming across?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I made an almost identical reply to a poster's first post, and was told months later it was a very rude post.
> I kid you not... Here is my post:
> 
> Forumites, feel free to pick apart this post of mine I have quoted. I was told this was rude. Can someone tell me what in here was rude?


The thing is, that wasn't the Op was it? It was someone coming onto a thread to promote a trainer. They were bound to take offense because they weren't after advice, they were trying to give it and you told them how wrong they were


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I just struggle to understand how people can judge others on the advise they give,


The irony here is priceless...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> If you feel that way why don't you help address it? I just struggle to understand how people can judge others on the advise they give, when they can't be bothered to offer any themselves?
> 
> If you feel it needs addressed then address it? You can't expect something to change if you can't be bothered to help change it?
> 
> Can you seriously not see how your comments are coming across?


*If my posts don't come across as i intend them to, i'm sorry, but i was never good at putting things into words.*
*As for addressing the subject, are you kidding me? Whenever something is said that might rock the boat, the threads get closed.*


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

You could argue that at least those of us giving advice, however poorly it's interpreted, are actually _trying_ to help. At least that's something. And what forum life is all about really. I agree with what @Meezey is saying that if people feel newbies get a raw deal of it, or advice is posted to harshly, then come offer some yourself to balance it out. That way you can say you've been able to add your input and hopefully help someone feel more welcome  It also gives you a good footing if you actually was a part of that thread to then make judgements on the way a thread got derailed and/or the responses made and offer your own feedback.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Mmmm indeed...Even stalked on FB at one stage


How did u guess what i was refering to ha


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> You could argue that at least those of us giving advice, however poorly it's interpreted, are actually _trying_ to help. At least that's something. And what forum life is all about really. I agree with what @Meezey is saying that if people feel newbies get a raw deal of it, or advice is posted to harshly, then come offer some yourself to balance it out. That way you can say you've been able to add your input and hopefully help someone feel more welcome  It also gives you a good footing if you actually was a part of that thread to then make judgements on the way a thread got derailed and/or the responses made and offer your own feedback.


To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *If my posts don't come across as i intend them to, i'm sorry, but i was never good at putting things into words.*
> *As for addressing the subject, are you kidding me? Whenever something is said that might rock the boat, the threads get closed.*


This thread hasn't? If people want things to change then they have to do something to change it.

I'm not great with written words which is why I come across as rude to others. For me, there is nothing more frustrating than someone joining a thread to call a member a bully or know it all or telling people they need to bow down to certain members etc but then offering the OP no advise, because then it just becomes a disagreement between members, that has nothing to do with helping newbies but everything to do with a members personal dislike of another member.

Threads often go the way they go as many members have the same thoughts about breeding and training etc. Stepping in just to argue does not help anyone.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rona said:


> To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


And this is exactly why threads get closed....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> And this is exactly why threads get closed....


*Did you and i read Rona's post the same? I think not, one of us misinterpreted it. I think.*


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rona said:


> To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


But does that really happen? Or is that simply a wrong perception of what actually is happening?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


I don't really understand that Rona. I'm not an expert at anything, I'm just a person who has owned dogs for more years than I care to remember, a variety of breeds and from a variety of backgrounds. I've done some training with professional but not a great deal and have read/researched but again not a great deal. I'm more than happy to offer advice in the training section and the health/nutrition section if its something I know about or have experience of. I've not experienced any "experts" giving me a hard time for daring to offer advice or an opinion unless of course I've offered incorrect advice, then I'm happy to be corrected.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Did you and i read Rona's post the same? I think not, one of us misinterpreted it. I think.*


I think it's the fact of the "experts" comment, which relates directly back to my threads, people join a thread to have a pop at an individual rather than offering their advice to the OP that's when it gets derailed.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Oh I go away for five minutes (ok an hour or so) and the children start to have tantrums 

Pity as I actually found this a very frank and constructive thread for a change with everyone putting their views across and everyone else accepting said views even if they didn't agree with them.

But then like all good things it comes to an end  oh well these things happen


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I was made very welcome when i first came on here.I got some abrasiveness and i understand why and i took it.However i didnt really care about any of that as all i wanted was to make my Oliver better.I have seen some very rude comments on here to people and also understand why they were made.I have noticed myself that some people came here to ask help and ask for advice and blow all of us off giving the advice and help.I am one of the many people that dont sugar coat anything and prefer not to have it that way in return.I am one of those people that in a story i will be tapping my foot going if you have a point to make can you just make it already.I thank people and have thanked many people on here and have been thanked back so i think things are going well.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

rona said:


> They were bound to take offense because they weren't after advice, they were trying to give it and you told them how wrong they were


Nope... No where in that post did I say they were wrong. I offered my opinion of the trainer, and made a gentle suggesting to check out other trainers.



JANICE199 said:


> *If my posts don't come across as i intend them to, i'm sorry, but i was never good at putting things into words.*


LOL! That's the whole thing! We ALL struggle to get our posts to come across as we intend, and we ALL have folks who don't always take the posts as intended.

This thread is a perfect example of how easy it is to get the wrong idea from an innocent post.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

jamat said:


> Oh I go away for five minutes (ok an hour or so) *and the children start to have tantrums*
> 
> Pity as I actually found this a very frank and constructive thread for a change with everyone putting their views across and everyone else accepting said views even if they didn't agree with them.
> 
> But then like all good things it comes to an end  oh well these things happen


Some people might interpret that as being rude you know. Just saying  Actually I think a few members are getting a few things out in the open which have been brewing for a while, I don't see anyone having a tantrum.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

What I do find irritating is that often there is very little in the way of thanks from some newbies to people who go out of there way to be as helpful as possible, I'm thinking of Sled Dog here who always seems to post calm reflective and very helpful posts.
Even more annoying is when there is no update on what happened to the dog, and I keep thinking of that poor resource guarding golden many months ago. What did become of him.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> Don't worry i know what Meezey is saying. I post on threads like this in the HOPE that one day, posts like this will get it through to some, that the way they give advice isn't always right.


Is there a right and wrong way to give advice though?
I guess it's kind of like saying is there a right and wrong way to train a dog?
I think we can all agree that there is no need for obvious abuse, but the less obvious "aversive technique" here and there is up for debate no?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

jamat said:


> Oh I go away for five minutes (ok an hour or so) and the children start to have tantrums
> 
> Pity as I actually found this a very frank and constructive thread for a change with everyone putting their views across and everyone else accepting said views even if they didn't agree with them.
> 
> But then like all good things it comes to an end  oh well these things happen


*I see no tantrums, just a health debate.*


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Some people might interpret that as being rude you know. Just saying  Actually I think a few members are getting a few things out in the open which have been brewing for a while, I don't see anyone having a tantrum.


Well Im an ignorant welshman  so sue me.... perhaps not I've got very little to sue me for :Arghh

Perhaps if nothing else this thread will allow people to let of steam


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> I keep thinking of that poor resource guarding golden many months ago. What did become of him.


See this is the frustration, people are quick to jump on others, without knowing what else they do off the forum.
I was following up on said pup until last month. But it wasn't put on the forum after a member who is no longer with us kept derailing the thread so she could have a go at me


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

Ask Meezey about the pup. She did a LOT behind the scenes.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> See this is the frustration, people are quick to jump on others, without knowing what else they do off the forum.
> I was following up on said pup until last month. But it wasn't put on the forum after a member who is no longer with us kept derailing the thread so she could have a go at me


Oh my word @Meezey i hadn't realised you were still following up on this until recently, I knew you had been at the time. Is he ok or can't you say?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Is there a right and wrong way to give advice though?
> I guess it's kind of like saying is there a right and wrong way to train a dog?
> I think we can all agree that there is no need for obvious abuse, but the less obvious "aversive technique" here and there is up for debate no?


*I think there is a right way and a wrong way to give advice. Some talk/type as if they are the worlds top know it alls. But we know this isn't the truth.*
*Can i just point out, how many people will ignore a post until certain members come along and post. Then you have just about ever tom dick and harry follow.*
*But how many of them actually know what they are talking about? And this i find worrying to say the least.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Oh my word @Meezey i hadn't realised you were still following up on this until recently, I knew you had been at the time. Is he ok or can't you say?


I just stopped posting as I was getting hassle for it .

Last I heard they were still in contact with breeder, they were keeping dog, they had arranged to see Rob but cancelled as they felt that didn't need it?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I just stopped posting as I was getting hassle for it .
> 
> Last I heard they were still in contact with breeder, they were keeping dog, they had arranged to see Rob but cancelled as they felt that didn't need it?


Thanks for that. Hope he's ok though and really doesn't need to see Rob.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think there is a right way and a wrong way to give advice. Some talk/type as if they are the worlds top know it alls. But we know this isn't the truth.*
> *Can i just point out, how many people will ignore a post until certain members come along and post. Then you have just about ever tom dick and harry follow.*
> *But how many of them actually know what they are talking about? And this i find worrying to say the least.*


Here's the issue Janice there have been members who gave out wrong and dangerous advice, and when people corrected them, they pulled the bully card and people then people joined a thread defended them against the bad forum people. Christ I was called a bully on a thread when I got the Frenchie a rescue space as the owner wanted rid.

Guess while there are ways to give advice to newbies some should also heed their own advice when speaking to other members.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

rona said:


> To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


I disagree, I think if someone presents a valid arguement or reasoning then it is respected, I think it's when people who cannot or will not come up with evidence for their approach (training for example) they are queried.

IMO, some of the 'experts' here have helped me & my dogs quite a bit; they eat alot better than they did, I train more effectively, I do alot more with my dogs than I ever thought possible, I have developed an interest in behaviour which has helped them alot, I am more aware of diseases/ailments, etc that may affect them & how I can treat them or manage them .... & many other reasons. There may be a few people who seem to be offended at the anyone who disagrees with them but I think alot us (& our dogs) have benefited a great deal either directly or indirectly.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Thanks for that. Hope he's ok though and really doesn't need to see Rob.


I know


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I just stopped posting as I was getting hassle for it .
> 
> Last I heard they were still in contact with breeder, they were keeping dog, they had arranged to see Rob but cancelled as they felt that didn't need it?


Oh wow, you were/are still in touch with the Goldie pup owner with severe RG issues? I know you tried desperately to help, but your offer of a rescue place went ignored 

This is why threads like this who lay blame at 'experts' knowledge or opinions is quite sad, because sometimes people like yourself Meezey do far more behind the scenes than anyone else here would even think to do.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I dont think just because we disagree on one subject that makes us rude or judgmental.There are several people i have had some serious knock down arguments with in one subject while we are liking and agreeing with each other in another discussion at the very same time.So with many people they dont see the other side of things either.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

I would never say someone was rude because they disagreed with my point of view only that they were rude if the way they put their argument across was insulting in some way.

I've had stand up knock down arguments over the years on building sites but I've always been respectful and kept the argument, and contents of the argument on the subject at hand, never have I, on purpose, resorted to personal insults in an argument it doesn't solve the problem and just makes things 10 times worse


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

In an old forum I was on there was a newbie section, where everything had to be sugar coated
I don't think that would work here there are some crazy visitors here and the section would be a Troll and Goat Farm


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

rona said:


> To enter into the "experts" zone and dare to question them or their opinions just creates an argument and that alienates the poor newbies even more making even more run for the hills and certainly doesn't help the animals


I agree this can happen.
I do think sometimes the original poster gets caught between the crossfire of opossing views and end up just stepping away from a thread or even the forum 
I think sometimes we could all take a step back and when something we agree with has been said instead of all posting a simple 'like' would show our agreement rather than lots of posts that can overwhelm the OP.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Ive been a member of the forum for exactly 3 years, just checked, and I've discovered that even at the age of 64, it's never too late to learn new things. When I got Isla I hadn't had a puppy for 15 years and it's amazing how much I had forgotten and how many new things I have learned in the last three years. My approach to training has changed a bit, more Sitwell less Woodhouse, and it has paid off, something I can at least help newby puppy owners with if nothing else. I'm not very articulate and sometimes word things poorly, but I like to at least try. Some forum members scare me a bit though.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.

Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


<throws sympathy your way>
Sorry, it lacked subtly, but it was sympathy


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Siskin said:


> When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.
> 
> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


Don't come on here looking for sympathy unless you have a shiny coat, wet nose and wagging tail 

Seriously hope it doesn't hurt too much


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Siskin said:


> When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.
> 
> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


Lots of sympathy coming your way, I've never had to have a tooth out while conscious so have no idea what it involves but wish you a quick and painless extraction.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Dentists suck *wafts sympathy your way*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.
> 
> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


I have to make a dentist appointment  I hadn't been for nearly 20 years and ended up having to have an extraction and 4 fillings oops.... But while it wasn't a laugh a minute it was okay


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Oppps forgot to add sympathy...


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## ladyisla (Apr 19, 2014)

I joined last year after I'd had my puppy a few weeks. I haven't felt unwelcome but apart from asking a couple of questions largely have to stuck to the photo thread (which I love) and replying to things that are relevant to me and Heidi. 

I used to frequent forums on and off a lot when I was younger especially to do with chronic illness and stuff and sometimes used to see some horrendous things being posted, people using the I'm ten times more ill than you card etc and stuff like that and it could get so nasty. I think it's just a part and parcel of the internet. It's a great thing but it's always going to create tension somewhere. I tend to stay out of really intense discussions unless I have something relevant to say, mainly because my brain power is not always up to arguing a point very well. 

I will say though I can definitely see that on this forum even if sometimes people are very direct and that can seem harsh, it's passion and knowledge of dogs that is the most obvious thing that comes across IMO. Not wow, that person is incredibly rude. I might personally chose to word things differently but directness is usually better. For some reason we seem to always have to sugar coat everything. Whenever anyone says something blunt but true it's like  how offensive!! anyway, that's my ten cents. 

I am really enjoying this forum and I have learned loads from reading and reading it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I do think part of the issue is with no body language or tones posts can come off much harsher than intended. Not just to the oversensitive types that see any disagreement as bullying either


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't go near the breeding section for two reasons.
1) I have no knowledge on breeding so have no advice to give.
2) I have no intention of breeding so have no need for help/advice from that section.
This thread wasn't aimed at that section so perhaps it happens there and I'm not aware of it, but I would genuinely be interested in reading a thread in the rest of the dog forums where someone has been made unwelcome from the outset. Can anyone help with a link to a thread where this has happened?

What I have seen happen though is a "newbie" being asked a relevant question which they don't want to answer/admit to, so they fly off the handle and turn themselves into a victim, which in turn gets people's backs up. If they feel unwelcome after that, then it's their own doing. What I have also seen is advice being given that the "newbie" doesn't want to hear and again the pattern follows.. offended - defensive - claim to be the victim.
If more than one person gives the same unwanted advice, the bully card is pulled out and waved around.

It's all about interpretation. @Blitz, I'm sorry to tag you and I really do hope you won't be offended by this, but one of your posts was one that struck a cord with me. Personally, I find many of your replies to be rude, yet you perceive other people to be rude who I don't think are rude in the slightest. It's perception. I don't throw my toys out of the pram and play the victim simply because we have a difference of opinion or I don't like the way you worded your replies. I accept that you've gone out of your way to give your valid opinion and I respect that. I accept that perhaps I'm perceiving your reply in a way it wasn't intended.. and then I get on with my day. I don't act like a hurt little bunny and whine about it and accuse you of bullying. Likewise, neither do you when you don't like what someone else has said. You put your point across and get on with your day. Why can't other's do the same?

There are people posting on this thread and other recent threads who I have never seen post in the dog forum before. They have not asked for advice, nor given any as far as I'm aware.. yet they are offended on behalf of others. If you are purposely going out of your way to join a heated thread to point fingers, then is it any wonder why you might feel unwelcome. Also on a few occasions, those people who weigh in just to point fingers often sway the OP into thinking the replies were rude when they may not have originally taken them that way.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Myyyyyy has this thread kicked off while I've been away!! :Jawdrop . Nope, haven't read all the replies, trying to catch up.



JANICE199 said:


> *I for one decided ages ago not to put my opinion in dog chat. There are a few that just love to put others down if their opinions differer from the few who always stick to dog chat. *


Word of the thread - differer.  



Meezey said:


> The 3 most vocal about others being rude, are often very rude themselves. I don't mean just rude to me Blitz in general you come across as rude, again it's how people interpret those words.
> 
> There's the difference though those who are vocal often feel they can help change things, maybe not for that person but as a whole because they are passionate about it, they aren't trying to be know it all's or shove their opinions down peoples thoughts they might be the most active posters and that's because like you say others don't post because they don't think they can change things or can't be bothered...


"Picking on" you here, Meezey, but it's nothing personal. I find @Blitz (and you, and a few others) to be blunt, direct and to the point. I've even started a thread before, hoping (and succeeding) to catch her attention and get her advice/opinion - both of which I highly value. I wouldn't call her "rude" but then I wouldn't call you "rude" either. Just direct. For me (I appreciate others might not agree), I prefer that approach. That's what makes me sit up and take notice. A velvet-gloved fist is still a fist and it's still going to hurt if you're not expecting the blow.

Another ("looking away" from Meezey now and addressing the forum as a whole) thing to think about is we all have our own lives. It's easy being "all glitters and rainbows and hearts and flowers" when everything in your RL is rosy, but when the sh!t hits the fan in RL, and hits it again, and again, and again, and again, it's hard to continue to be nice. The proverbial gloves come off and people lash out, unintentionally, maybe, but it's a symptom of life being tough and nothing good happening. That could go for both sides of the coin. I don't consider myself as an "adviser" on here - I don't think I know nearly as much as some of the others, but I do feel like, while my posts have always been on the direct end of the fluffy scale, this year, they've probably got a little blunter. Because I've yet to receive good news in RL this year.

Now, no, that's not the forum's fault, nor newbies, so I've taken a step back from posting but when you're feeling raw in RL, the varnish to the posts is going to suffer, too.



Carzana said:


> Thank you, I will, I want to share everything about him as we've (hubs and I) waited 12 years for a dog  I think I should perhaps have posted more and read less as I kind of read bits and thought the dog was the problem when, actually people dont care in regards to the dog but the breeder if that makes sense?


No idea.what's happened, or what your history is, but the only stupid question, is one that isn't asked. If your dog is a cross breed or a Mutt, and you're not sure what's in him, just think of all the interesting conversations you'll have as people try to guess the breeds.  . My Max is an unknown cross. At 12y/o, we still don't know what he's a cross of and never will now. So far we've had guesses of

Collie x
GSD x
Springer x
Husky

Probably a few more, too. 

Must dash! Not at work today, yet still mega busy


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Can I just add a little extra thing to the pot in how people reply and this is a general thing that I hope will be taken positively.

this forum, and others, are a window into the world for many people with social difficulties, be it depression or whatever. 

On here people have shown courage to come forward and be honest about their situation and admit that owning a dog has helped them with mental health issues and given them confidence in talking to people.

This is a great positive about this site on issues like this I can honestly say no one on here is judgemental and embrace these people.

Now the ones I know of on here are long time posters but what if a new poster comes on and asks a question, they have problems in their lives and suddenly the advice they were asking for turns into a thread that is intimidating and not where they want to be. 

I'm not saying anyone here would be so cruel as to allow this to happen to the OP but threads take on a life of their own and leave the OP behind as strong personalities take over. and the OP is left as bystander. 

This would alienate these new people as much as direct attacks on them and might never come back again


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Siskin said:


> When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.
> 
> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


Look at you trying to derail a thread  Seriously though, sending a heap of sympathy your way. I didn't go to the dentist for about 10 years and had to have 2 teeth out. I fainted in the waiting room.. TWICE!!! :Bag
It really wasn't too bad though and I'd much rather have a tooth pulled now than any other dental procedure


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Siskin said:


> When it's obviously a troll though and we all realise then those threads can just be so hilarious especially if Lostbear joins in, she does have a rare sense of humour.
> 
> Sorry I'm whittling a bit, sat in the dentists waiting to have a tooth out. Waaaaa want some sympathy


I send tons of sympathy your way.A couple of months back i went in and had all for of my wisdoms pulled while awake.They didnt want to do all four but i told them they had to because i wasnt coming back again.It took 14 shots in one tooth to numb it out to pull and the other 3 took 2 shots each.Then i had to wait an hour and a half before they would release me because my blood pressure was off the charts.Hmmm i wonder why.Then they wouldnt give me any pain meds because of my blood pressure.So i send you tons and tons of sympathy.I will never do it again.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> Myyyyyy has this thread kicked off while I've been away!! :Jawdrop . Nope, haven't read all the replies, trying to catch up.
> 
> Word of the thread - differer.
> 
> ...


Differences is I am aware I come across as rude  it's also not intentional..... 


jamat said:


> Can I just add a little extra thing to the pot in how people reply and this is a general thing that I hope will be taken positively.
> 
> this forum, and others, are a window into the world for many people with social difficulties, be it depression or whatever.
> 
> ...


What about those long term people who have problems in their lives that no one knows about being constantly attacked for being rude by the same members etc isn't good for their well being either?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Differences is I am aware I come across as rude  it's also not intentional.....
> 
> What about those long term people who have problems in their lives that no one knows about being constantly attacked for being rude by the same members etc isn't good for their well being either?


I don't think you come across as rude, but then, what do I know?


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

@Meezey ...The very name strikes rudness to the bottom of my soul and is never wrong and always has bad things to say to everyone lol:Facepalm


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> @Meezey ...The very name strikes rudness to the bottom of my soul and is never wrong and always has bad things to say to everyone lol:Facepalm


You know me too well


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Meezey said:


> You know me too well


i honestly think a lot of people miss the fact that a difference of opinion doesn't mean rudeness.Look at you and i.We have had many difference of opinions but i still respect you and have even grown fond of you.And at the same time we agree on many different things.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

This has been a long but very interesting read and its good to see that despite the nature of the topic its stayed as a healthy debate.

I'm mostly a lurker as I'm in the research stage of getting a dog and have to say I've learnt a lot that had i not found this forum I wouldn't have even had clue.

I've only seen one (fairly recent) thread where a "long term" poster popped up with zero advice and shredded the op. Which by forum standards is pretty amazing.

The rest are just giving honest advice albeit a bit sharp sometimes but not intentionally rude. Why use 1000 words when 12 will do (especially the way my autocorrect is playing up lol).

I like this forum and have a lot of time for the people on it. Especially as there is such a fountain of knowledge here. And whilst I'm here babbling I would like to thank those who reply to threads with good advice, fluffy or not so fluffy, because its helped me and im sure many other lurkers like me.

Forum etiquette is funny thing at the best times.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mrsred said:


> Ask Meezey about the pup. She did a LOT behind the scenes.


As do many others. They just don't feel the need to make sure everyone else knows how great they are


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Also there are some people that do know more about some things than others.I have gone through having a dog with diabetes for about 5 years.I know a lot about it and a lot of the things to look for and situations and ways to handle it.I have helped several people with it and i cant say i was exactly sugar and rainbows about it.Especially when i have been told that it is not the way to do things and i am wrong by someone who has never been through it.I think when someone has been through something they are much more passionate about it.Just like me with MMM.I have helped several people with that too and this is one subject i become very abrupt about and if i dont know i recommend the only person that i think knows more than i about it.At this point i could go to the vets offices in my area and teach them about MMM.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

rona said:


> As do many others. They just don't feel the need to make sure everyone else knows how great they are


hey now.There is nothing wrong with tooting your own horn once in a while.........Is there?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rona said:


> As do many others. They just don't feel the need to make sure everyone else knows how great they are


Case and point, with some people it's never about the forum, or defending newbies just their dislike of certain individuals.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Sorry very stupid question coming * puts on hard hat just in case * 

What's MMM?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rona said:


> As do many others. They just don't feel the need to make sure everyone else knows how great they are


Rona, we very seldom disagree but that is just a tiny bit rude.



Rott lover said:


> Also there are some people that do know more about some things than others.I have gone through having a dog with diabetes for about 5 years.I know a lot about it and a lot of the things to look for and situations and ways to handle it.I have helped several people with it and i cant say i was exactly sugar and rainbows about it.Especially when i have been told that it is not the way to do things and i am wrong by someone who has never been through it.I think when someone has been through something they are much more passionate about it.Just like me with MMM.I have helped several people with that too and this is one subject i become very abrupt about and if i dont know i recommend the only person that i think knows more than i about it.At this point i could go to the vets offices in my area and teach them about MMM.


What is MMM


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

jamat said:


> Sorry very stupid question coming * puts on hard hat just in case *
> 
> What's MMM?


Not a stupid question at all. I used to be a veterinary nurse, I have always had dogs and always been very involved with them and I have no idea what it stands for.


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

Ah now Rona, that's not fair. 
I knew about things because I was in contact with Meezey elsewhere at the time, it certainly wasn't from here.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Rona, we very seldom disagree but that is just a tiny bit rude.


Well..............I've taken insult after insult and just ignored it

Mainly cos I haven't seen it but others have told me


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mrsred said:


> Ah now Rona, that's not fair.
> I knew about things because I was in contact with Meezey elsewhere at the time, it certainly wasn't from here.


It is, there's many, many people on here that help others off forum


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

jamat said:


> Sorry very stupid question coming * puts on hard hat just in case *
> 
> What's MMM?





Blitz said:


> Rona, we very seldom disagree but that is just a tiny bit rude.
> 
> What is MMM


There is a sticky thread about it in the health section (I didn't know either)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/mmm-help-please.388768/



rona said:


> Well..............I've taken insult after insult and just ignored it
> 
> Mainly cos I haven't seen it but others have told me


I can honestly 100 % say I haven't seen it Rona - perhaps some people are stirring trouble by telling you things that aren't true.


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

rona said:


> It is, there's many, many people on here that help others off forum


And no one is disputing that others help, but I doubt they are painted as the anti Christ who does nothing but bully!


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Rott lover said:


> hey now.There is nothing wrong with tooting your own horn once in a while.........Is there?


Lol! A wise man (my oh lol) once told me if you don't toot your own horn once in a while no one else will!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There is a sticky thread about it in the health section (I didn't know either)
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/mmm-help-please.388768/
> 
> .


Thank you


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Masticatory muscle myositis


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I think rona was with me on that one from the very beginning and i think rona was my first contact on here as well


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

see even in a thread like this everyone can learn something new.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

***WARNING, WARNING*** going off topic again and awaiting a slapped wrist.

Back home and all is well. Thanks for all the sympathy, sure it helped, tooth came out very easily as it was a wobbler. I needed to have it taken out before the knee op next month as I have to be very careful not to have any infections as they could go to the operation site and cause all manner of problems.

Like others, I went through a stage of not seeing the dentist for years and years as I'm terrified of them. Finally I had to go as I was having a lot of problems and ended up having some extractions and a dental plate made. Mr Siskin makes absolutely sure I go regularly now.


Ok, off topic bit over, back to the subject.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Thank you RPH you got to it before i did.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mrsred said:


> And no one is disputing that others help, but I doubt they are painted as the anti Christ who does nothing but bully!


Sorry, can't continue this. Got to get ready to go to the Docs....................


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Siskin said:


> ***WARNING, WARNING*** going off topic again and awaiting a slapped wrist.
> 
> Back home and all is well. Thanks for all the sympathy, sure it helped, tooth came out very easily as it was a wobbler. I needed to have it taken out before the knee op next month as I have to be very careful not to have any infections as they could go to the operation site and cause all manner of problems.
> 
> ...


Warning wil robinson danger danger


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

rona said:


> Sorry, can't continue this. Got to get ready to go to the Docs....................


Me either, I've to go to sainsburys with mother.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

A few people have mentioned "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" but the other flip side of the coin is, "it's not how I say it, it's how you perceive it"

From this thread alone, the nastiest comment IMO has been from someone who believes other people are rude! I know I can come across as blunt and rude sometimes, on here and in the real world. I don't often mean to be but that's the way it is perceived. I know my downfalls. It seems the ones who have no concept that they can be rude are often the ones with the nastiest streak of all.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

"Nettles said:


> It seems the ones who have no concept that they can be rude are often the ones with the nastiest streak of all.


"If you look around the room and can't find the jerk then it's probably you." - made me laugh when I first heard it but there's a lot of truth in it.

(Not calling you the jerk Nettles but that comment made me think of that saying!)

(Also I think jerk was originally more colourful lol)


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Some people do like to sit on their booster seats, flinging mud.

Everyone has their own style, their own perception of what is reasonable or kind.

On such a large forum, with such a mix of personalities, to think that everyone could always agree or like the posting style of others just isn't realistic, in my opinion.

Truthfully, I sometimes feel irritated by those who don't put themselves out to offer help or advice to newcomers, but don't fail to turn on those who do try to help, if they don't like the way they respond.

Don't demand perfection from others whilst falling short of that mark yourself.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The thing is some people expect everyone on a forum to get on and it all be sunshine and rainbows. Whereas it's potentially hundreds of people from all walks of life, with different beliefs and interests. Would you expect any random group of people thrown together because they share a hobby or interest to all get on? Add in the complication of it not being face to face, the trolls and this forum is actually pretty mild compared to some.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

This forum is much better than any i have where i am.Most of the people where i am are just rude inconsiderate self absorbed keyboard warrior wieners. That is why i came to this forum to start with.I tried to post about MMM on a site here and i got nothing but bad mouthed and harassed for it.


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## chissy 15 (Mar 13, 2013)

I have read through all this thread I have been on other dog forums and must say they are boring compared to this one. Not because people argue, I like to call it debate strongly There are a lot on here that are passionate about dogs and only want to put people right, especially newbies when they come here asking questions or wanting advice. Some maybe are a bit strong in their wording but I've found that most on here give good advice but some newbies get on their high horse about it and accuse people of being bullies basically they DO want things sugar coated or a pat on the back and told " there, there never mind"

I also like going into general chat and there are good debates on there as well. I like the fact you can talk to people who are not necessarily dog owners as well and talk about anything. I have been here nearly 3 years and have seen members come and go. Two members who's threads and posts I use to look forward to reading no longer come on here and there has certainly been enough trolls in that time


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I've met people on here who have become real life friends, and for that I am ever so grateful. When I re-homed the girls no one shot me down, but offered support, care and concern. I feel so lucky to be part of here


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

tinaK said:


> I've met people on here who have become real life friends, and for that I am ever so grateful. When I re-homed the girls no one shot me down, but offered support, care and concern. I feel so lucky to be part of here


I know i am for one to have known you as well.I still think you are one of the most courageous and strong people i have ever known.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Rach&Miko said:


> "If you look around the room and can't find the jerk then it's probably you."


I love the word "jerk"...it's so satisfying to say and just rolls off the tongue when used correctly 

That is all - carry on!


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Rott lover said:


> I know i am for one to have known you as well.I still think you are one of the most courageous and strong people i have ever known.


Thank you x


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

tinaK said:


> I've met people on here who have become real life friends, and for that I am ever so grateful. When I re-homed the girls no one shot me down, but offered support, care and concern. I feel so lucky to be part of here


If i didnt have to hop a plane and drive forever i would have givin you a hug long ago.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> I love the word "jerk"...it's so satisfying to say and just rolls off the tongue when used correctly
> 
> That is all - carry on!


But what kind of jerk?is it Caribbean jerk?MMMMM tasty


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Rach&Miko said:


> "Nettles said:
> 
> 
> > It seems the ones who have no concept that they can be rude are often the ones with the nastiest streak of all.
> ...


I like that saying too and you're right, there is a lot of truth in it. I only knew of the more colourful version though 
Quite often we miss our own faults because we're too busy pointing out everyone else's.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> I love the word "jerk"...it's so satisfying to say and just rolls off the tongue when used correctly
> 
> That is all - carry on!


It's not a word I use very often. Making a mental note to give it a whirl sometime :Smuggrin


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I am polite on here compared to what I am in real life.
> 
> But I will say again why do certain people only ever feel the need to contribute to dog chat when threads like these come up?


lol! Sorry Meezey, it just amused me to see you say that at the beginning of the thread then see its now 10 pages long and counting!


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nettles said:


> "If you look around the room and can't find the jerk then it's probably you." - made me laugh when I first heard it but there's a lot of truth in it.
> 
> (Not calling you the jerk Nettles but that comment made me think of that saying!)
> 
> (Also I think jerk was originally more colourful lol)


I like that saying too and you're right, there is a lot of truth in it. I only knew of the more colourful version though 
Quite often we miss our own faults because we're too busy pointing out everyone else's.[/QUOTE]
It is always easier and human nature to point out someones mistakes and not good qualities because it is easier than finding the good and the things they do well and pointing them out.People just settle with negatives since they think it makes people see their mistakes and helps them become better.Even though if all you hear is the negative then that is how you react to everything.There has to be balance between the good and negative so that things get better but so we have reason to strive to be better as well...........Arg crud i went and got off topic and used positive forward thinking again darn me.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

tinaK said:


> I've met people on here who have become real life friends, and for that I am ever so grateful. When I re-homed the girls no one shot me down, but offered support, care and concern. I feel so lucky to be part of here


I agree, people were very supportive when I first got my Roxy who had a lot of problems & I was out of my depth with her. As well as people offering advice on how to manage certain behavious, (which was invaluable), I met up with a couple of people who helped give me more confidence taking her out. It was so nice of people I didn't know to take so much time in offering advice.
Through the forum I have been on various courses, met up with a few members & their lovely dogs so regardless of any bickering with people, criticisms I have had, I have found that the forum has been very useful to me & I am grateful for all the support I have had over the years.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Some people do like to sit on their booster seats, flinging mud.
> 
> Everyone has their own style, their own perception of what is reasonable or kind.
> *
> ...


That's a really good point actually, where else would you get an Anarchist, Christians, Atheists, Tories, Left wingers, people from the UK and many from abroad, young and old alike all in one place discussing things about pets or in General Chat about books/politics/animal rights/wildlife/gardening/the environment. Its unrealistic to expect everyone to post in the same style and share the same views on every subject and it would be a frankly boring place if we did.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Nettles said:


> It seems to be mentioned quite often that new members aren't made to feel welcome on this forum.
> 
> I've only been here since June this year so I'm a new member. I've never once been made to feel unwelcome. I have asked countless daft questions and have always been given advice no matter how stupid my question is. The advice might not be what I wanted to hear, but I didn't join this forum for a pat on the back and to be told I'm doing everything right, I joined for help and advice which I've taken on board.
> 
> ...


That's a lovely post  Do you know, I thought you'd been here a lot longer and none of your questions have been daft, at least no dafter than mine away!

I was made to feel very welcome and I've met a few PF'ers in person and they've been very nice too.


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

I never felt unwelcome here , i just have trouble getting on now! 
i've been on here for a while on and off about six years now , although it does not look like i have (left for a while, then come back again) the forum is missing lots of ex members , lovely ones at that too! that is a huge shame. i don't come here often now , i'm not keen on this forum software format and just things going on in my personal life! i miss lots of people here , another reason i don't come on anymore , people have found me rude in the past , i just try and speak my mind , as in life i'd personally rather know where i stand , rather than have people talk/post behind my back..i have huge respect for a lot of people here , won't name or embarrass you , even though others may find them direct/rude , you could almost certainly guarantee they would help/advise and offer support or a listening sympathetic ear if you ever needed it. i myself have been told i am rude but hey ho such is life.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> That's a lovely post  Do you know, I thought you'd been here a lot longer and none of your questions have been daft, at least no dafter than mine away!
> 
> I was made to feel very welcome and I've met a few PF'ers in person and they've been very nice too.


According to my profile I joined in 2011 (I have no idea why I joined then, the only pets I had in 2011 were my two degus so I must have needed help with them lol) When I tried to sign up in June it said I already had a profile :Wideyed My first ever post was June this year when we got Phoebe!
Oh believe me, I've asked some stupid questions :Bag A particularly stupid one that sticks in my mind was when I couldn't understand why everyone was getting so annoyed about British Sign Language!!! Turned out BSL meant a very different thing :Bag:Facepalm


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

@Nettles you always seem to make me laugh.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Rott lover said:


> @Nettles you always seem to make me laugh.


Why thank you kind sir, it seems my work here is done :Cigar
Seriously though, sometimes people don't get my sarcasm or sense of humour. I'm glad we're on the same wavelength


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Nettles said:


> A few people have mentioned "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" but the other flip side of the coin is, "it's not how I say it, it's how you perceive it"


sometimes what is rude to one and not another is ones state of mind at the time
if one is upset, depressed or just down [two completely different things in my head] needy, etc then you might read a short post as being rude rather than to the point
if one is a happy bunny, filled with flowers and unicorns in ones life, then even a one word answer can be fulfilling

I know, 
because I dont suffer fools at all, let alone gladly,
I can come across as brusque, unapproachable and down right rude, when the truth is, Im far from that at all,
but
I tend to type as I talk in real life, among friends who know me, and, perhaps to my naivety and detriment, I have a tendency to view most, new or old, here as just that and forget that 95% of people here I have never, nor will ever, met/meet

I do have to say that, all the people on this thread whom have been targeted as being rude, I have found [bar one] to be some of the most knowledgeable, helpful and willing to go the extra mile for people and their dogs, than many I know in RL, but I can also see where they are being worn down and jaded by repeating the same thing over and over again, things that arent rocket science and easy to google or ask a vet

Having said that,
remember
*the only stupid question is the one you dont ask*
because
jaded and worn down or not
people would rather answer the same question 1000 times, than see an owner and/or their animal flounder


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> sometimes what is rude to one and not another is ones state of mind at the time
> if one is upset, depressed or just down [two completely different things in my head] needy, etc then you might read a short post as being rude rather than to the point
> if one is a happy bunny, filled with flowers and unicorns in ones life, then even a one word answer can be fulfilling
> 
> ...


not me if i answer your question once i expect you to remember it so i dont have to repeat it to you 1000 times.:Wtf


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

My life motto.....


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

mrs phas said:


> I do have to say that, all the people on this thread whom have been targeted as being rude, I have found [bar one] to be some of the most knowledgeable, helpful and willing to go the extra mile for people and their dogs


I agree with this. The people that have helped me the most on this forum are the ones who usually get targeted as being rude. If it wasn't for the advice and support these "rude" members gave me, I can honestly say I'd have fallen apart long ago and my dog would have suffered for it.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> My life motto.....
> 
> View attachment 251179


:Hilarious Lies! It's all lies.. you forgot about the pink and fluffy


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Just this!!!


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

mrs phas said:


> I do have to say that, all the people on this thread whom have been targeted as being rude, I have found [bar one] to be some of the most knowledgeable, helpful and willing to go the extra mile for people and their dogs, than many I know in RL, but I can also see where they are being worn down and jaded by repeating the same thing over and over again, things that arent rocket science and easy to google or ask a vet


I have to agree with this and if it hadn't been for their advice and support and that of others on this forum I probably would not still have my boy now


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

I think there's a huge difference between being blunt and being rude...I can quite happily disagree with what someone is saying without thinking they're rude.

But then I post on other forums, where they're much much harsher, lol.

I'm not bothered at all by straight talking, whether I agree with someone or not I think life is just much easier if everyone says what they mean.

I have no idea if people think I'm rude or not, lol.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> I think there's a huge difference between being blunt and being rude...I can quite happily disagree with what someone is saying without thinking they're rude.
> 
> But then I post on other forums, where they're much much harsher, lol.
> 
> ...


Hear! Hear! If someone isn't straight talking, and tries to sugar coat the truth, it can lead to confusion IMO. Using Max's CCD as an example, I'd much rather my vet just say that it's dementia than waffle on about the aging process and beat about the bush and make me hope that it's not serious. If I know what it is, I can deal with it... I might not like it, but I can deal with it.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

A bit late joining the thread but I have to say I have never been made to feel unwelcome here.
I joined because I was having lots of problems with my dog and was looking for recommendations for a training class. Through all of the problems (health/behavioural/training) I have had with my dog I have received a huge amount of support and help from people on here. I have met several forum members, found a behaviourist and now found a brilliant place to train so I am very pleased to have found this place
Sure, some people are more blunt than others, and sometimes I have been a bit upset by some of the comments, but that's life and I realise that if I ask for help on an internet forum I will get some comments that are less palatable. But, often these have had the best advice - it is just hard sometimes to accept that I am not perfect


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm not going to start naming people coz there's bound to be a few I forget, but for all those members who take time out of their day to give muppets like me advice, and especially for all those members that get nothing but a pile of abuse for it, I want to say THANK YOU from me and Pheebs  xo


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I think this sums up petforums.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

I guess this thread is making me think about things in a different way here
I'm starting to wonder following this thread where I fit on this forum, I hear about friends made and stuff, but don't feel I have got to know anyone on a more personal level than any others.
I have had one short message share with one person, but not really personal, just a step away from saying on the general forum some more detailed thought on the general discussion

TBH I don't think in most cases I really read who wrote what of what I am reading, just absorb, think on it and then agree or like, or give a different opinion or my experience.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Dear all

I have just posted a link in a thread on the general chat about a young man called Jake Bailey, he has been diagnosed with cancer and given 3 weeks to live if his treatment doesn't work. Though very sick he made it to his school to give his head boy end of year speech.

Please go over there and have a look... I warn you it might make you cry it did me.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/jake-bailey-a-brave-young-man.415494/

The reason for posting the link here in this thread is that listening to him made me realise how insignificant all the arguments we have here on the forum are compared to what this young man is going through ... It made me think that someone being rude is so unimportant in the scheme of things and perhaps we can all take something away from listening to this young man.

Apologies for high jacking this thread for a moment


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

kare said:


> I guess this thread is making me think about things in a different way here
> I'm starting to wonder following this thread where I fit on this forum, I hear about friends made and stuff, but don't feel I have got to know anyone on a more personal level than any others.
> I have had one short message share with one person, but not really personal, just a step away from saying on the general forum some more detailed thought on the general discussion
> 
> TBH I don't think in most cases I really read who wrote what of what I am reading, just absorb, think on it and then agree or like, or give a different opinion or my experience.


Same as me really.
There are a few members who stand out for me and I enjoy their posts, pics and little chats. But questions in the dog areas, I just answer to the best of my knowledge and experience (and say so, I don't pretend I'm and expert!). Sometimes I don't really remember the username.

Most of the Private Message shares I get are from new members, who never thank me or come back again. So getting a little peeved at that :Shifty But ill still help, because I want to help the dog.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nettles said:


> I'm not going to start naming people coz there's bound to be a few I forget, but for all those members who take time out of their day to give muppets like me advice, and especially for all those members that get nothing but a pile of abuse for it, I want to say THANK YOU from me and Pheebs  xo


I would like to do the same.There have been so many people on here that have taken their time and helped me in my extreme time of need.Not only while Oliver was sick but after he was gone as well.If it wasn't for this forum i would probably still be a mess.I lost a HUGE part of myself and everyone here was in my corner.Even all the ones that have been labeled as rude.Everyone has gone far above and beyond what i expected.Something as simple as liking a poem to listening to me spill my guts while i am crying my eyes out and understanding.All this for someone way across the pond.Thank you all for being here and all the help you give.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Just this!!!


all i can say is liar........:Facepalm


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Meezey said:


> My life motto.....
> 
> View attachment 251179


I dont believe a word of it


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I've got a T shirt with 'keep calm and go for a walk'. Good idea if you're feeling upset or frustrated with forum life.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

When I first joined everyone welcomed me and most times here I have had good advice Most of you know I have a dreadful time of late losing 3 of my dogs and my old cat and the messages of support I got on this forum was amazing I can honestly say it would have been much harder to cope with my loss had it not been for the people on this forum who understood what I was feeling like I don't think anyone in all my time here has even been rude to me and I hope I have not been rude to anyone either You know I think sometimes the written word is not the same as talking to a person face to face but I can say I would not be without this forum


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

It's all gone a bit pink and fluffy in this thread now :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf Just kidding.. GROUP HUG


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

GOOD MY WORK HERE IS DONE !!!!:Beaver:Bearandaenguinigeon


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Nettles said:


> It's all gone a bit pink and fluffy in this thread now :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf Just kidding.. GROUP HUG


Have you had all your vaccines? do you have your vaccine card?

You can't join any Groups in the Dog world without an up to date vaccination card!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

kare said:


> I guess this thread is making me think about things in a different way here
> I'm starting to wonder following this thread where I fit on this forum, I hear about friends made and stuff, but don't feel I have got to know anyone on a more personal level than any others.
> I have had one short message share with one person, but not really personal, just a step away from saying on the general forum some more detailed thought on the general discussion
> 
> TBH I don't think in most cases I really read who wrote what of what I am reading, just absorb, think on it and then agree or like, or give a different opinion or my experience.


I think most of the people who have got to know each other on a more personal level are those who share more details about their dogs, enjoying each others pictures, sharing in each others training successes and woes, just enjoying the day to day lives of all our dogs.

Just depends what you're here for really and how involved you get.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I think forums are like many things in life- You get out what you put in. 

I have made real life friends via the forum through meet ups / walks and emailing.

Although I feel the forum has a very different feel to say a couple of years ago... Maybe it's just me but felt it had more regular posters. 

Some very reliable friendly people have been lost over the years. 

But then that is the nature of forums and dare I say it life at time- people come and people go. 

I often go to post - even write a post and then don't post as I don't really recognise any / many posters or fear that what I say may be taken the wrong way. 

The key is not taking anything personally - it's not real life and let's be honest people can create hugely fake personas over the Internet so take most things with a piece of salt.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nettles said:


> It's all gone a bit pink and fluffy in this thread now :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf Just kidding.. GROUP HUG


(backs away slowly) uh uh not me


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

I've had PMs, hugely useful supportive ones when I've been posting about a particular issue, which were much appreciated.

But mostly, I dip in and out of threads if they interest me or I've got something to say.

I don't do meet ups because most people are too far away and I've got an anti-social dog, lol.

I think things like that depend on how and why you use a forum to start with.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

I've never been made to feel bad either. Even though I started off with my rescue pei who I got from a rescue we hadn't researched, only slightly researched the breed but not really as we fed wag. I joined as she was pooping blood and being sick.. No1 was rude but politely told me to get her to the vets, which I did  I then went on the learn soo much on raw feeding and training her with her reactivity with positive methods and also training fun stuff. I then went on to get a pup gsd (again, no research into the breed as I didn't even want him!).. Even though we work FT.. And he came home at 6weeks old. Members were incredibly supportive throughout the whole process ..and still are with Kyzer and his training.. But I've worked bloody hard with him and without members on here I would of been so blind. Again, never once made to feel crap. Then a year later we acquired Bob.. Again, nothing but niceness. 
There's certain people I'd PM about certain things but other than that I'll happily throw a question into a thread to see what others say  
I love reading all sections of dog... I love reading and learning even if it doesn't concern me (breeding for example.. I go in there but I don't plan on breeding but I learn so much, some knowledge will become useful in years to come and I may be looking into breeders etc) 
I've also been in GC health and the support I've got in there has been life changing. 

I don't see the 'groups' or bullies and never have done really. I just see honest answers and sometimes people not hearing what they thought would be the answer.. But we all have one thing in common, the love of dogs. Some posters can be blunt.. But it's honest and true.. Life isn't sugar coated so why should posts on a forum be all lovely and shiney with kisses and smiley emotions. Ok there's manners but there's also personalitys, I'm the kind of person who gets on with blunt people in normal life so I guess the forum is no different, so I don't see posts as rude. But that's just me  I feel for the people who think they're being bullied etc as I'm sure that's not ever the intention of anyone's post on here. But after all, that's what the mods are for and they'll keep things in line if needed  
The best ones are when people ask for opinions...... Now they can be scary but after all ... 'You did ask!' Eek!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I think it's about keeping a sense of perspective too.

If you believe in ABC and someone arrives believing in XYZ then it's unlikely that ranting at them here is going to change that. It's very frustrating if you know a dog might be suffering but ultimately you have to walk away with the hope that something might have sunk in, assuming it's a real story. I tend to pick 'battles' wisely and always think 'would I'd say this in person'. If I wouldn't then I delete it. But having hung about here so long, you get a nose for who is real and who is faking.

But I have had so many great things. I'd never go to Developing Dogs if it wasn't for PF, never own an amazing pair of boots if it wasn't for @Dogless and a gripper lead if it wasn't for @Milliepoochie


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Meezey said:


> You will also find certain members can't wait to join threads like these to air their personal vendetta's  ahhh the joys of PF....


Best keep me gob shut then. :Muted

:Rage Wait a minute! Why should I? When I first signed up back in 2009 I was made to feel as welcome as a steel band at a Ku Klux Klan convention.

Then again, I wasn't asking for advice.

I was giving it!:Smug


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> I think it's about keeping a sense of perspective too.
> 
> If you believe in ABC and someone arrives believing in XYZ then it's unlikely that ranting at them here is going to change that. It's very frustrating if you know a dog might be suffering but ultimately you have to walk away with the hope that something might have sunk in, assuming it's a real story. I tend to pick 'battles' wisely and always think 'would I'd say this in person'. If I wouldn't then I delete it. But having hung about here so long, you get a nose for who is real and who is faking.
> 
> But I have had so many great things. I'd never go to Developing Dogs if it wasn't for PF, never own an amazing pair of boots if it wasn't for @Dogless and a gripper lead if it wasn't for @Milliepoochie


The simple things in life are the best


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Late comer to the thread.
I never felt unwelcome as a newcomer.
I have also never really got into many heavy discussions. 4 spring to mind in my time of joining. 2 of recent.
Something that someone else touched on. When we do have a heated discussion or debate in one thread and find that we cross swords (so to speak) I think its important to leave it in that thread and im happy to just be happy and like no such heated discussion happened with the same person 2 minutes later in the next thead  after all, its never normally personal and normall discussion specific.

Sometimes though, and its life it does happen, some people rub the wrong way regularly and thats what the ignore buttons for. To avoid such things 

I like the forum and most people and find it helpful and hope i post helpful replies where i can


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Never felt unwelcome here either. 

I joined this forum when the previous dog forum I was on went a bit weird......i.e....... The administrator decided they would just ban everyone that disagreed with them..... ...... And the administrator had some very extreme views!!

Am happy here. There are lots of knowledgable folk here that I would be comfortable pm'ing for help etc and lots of lovely pics of dogs to coo over, which is the main point of a forum isn't it?!


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

so in the end of 12 pages full of posts i think it is safe to say that everyone feels welcome here and things do get heated once in a while and that means the admins do a very good job at deleting things when true bullying and such does occur.I know i had a discussion deleted here once but it was not me who got out of like.Apparently someone had a problem with americans lol.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

kare said:


> Have you had all your vaccines? do you have your vaccine card?
> 
> You can't join any Groups in the Dog world without an up to date vaccination card!


No vaccines.. I'm one of those new age hippies that uses pixie dust and happy thoughts to keep away disease. I am chipped though, just as well really as I've been known to wander


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I am so, so, so sorry...I just can't help myself


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Ok I have to ask.. What's with the goats? Is it a troll thing?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Ok I have to ask.. What's with the goats? Is it a troll thing?


It can be a troll thing.
I just post them because I like goats


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> It can be a troll thing.
> I just post them because I like goats


Thank you! Well of course.. who doesn't like goats? Especially ones with better footwear than me


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2015)

Goats started way way back with this annoying troll who kept posting obnoxious and insensitive threads in dog chat.
@Nonnie answered one of his threads by saying "This thread is now about goats. Goat pics only please." It was just really funny in the moment and then we started posting pictures and cracking up. From there, whenever a thread gets heated or needs some lightening up, (and also for obvious trolls) the goats come out. Not just goats. Funny animal memes of all kinds are fair game. There have been some good ones. The pit bull dressed as a squirrel who lost his nuts still cracks me up


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2015)

Milliepoochie said:


> Although I feel the forum has a very different feel to say a couple of years ago... Maybe it's just me but felt it had more regular posters.
> 
> Some very reliable friendly people have been lost over the years.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I read most days but don't post much - and when I do there's not many replies because not many people know me any more (well I'm going to pretend that's the reason!).


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

McKenzie said:


> I agree with this. I read most days but don't post much - and when I do there's not many replies because not many people know me any more (well I'm going to pretend that's the reason!).


I'm the same- it's like being a newbie all over again! LOL


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Goats started way way back with this annoying troll who kept posting obnoxious and insensitive threads in dog chat.
> @Nonnie answered one of his threads by saying "This thread is now about goats. Goat pics only please." It was just really funny in the moment and then we started posting pictures and cracking up. From there, whenever a thread gets heated or needs some lightening up, (and also for obvious trolls) the goats come out. Not just goats. Funny animal memes of all kinds are fair game. There have been some good ones. The pit bull dressed as a squirrel who lost his nuts still cracks me up


I just cant bear when things come to that.

Anyways i have seen many of those and am usually in hysterics laughing so hard my side hurts and tears are running down my face.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> I agree with this. I read most days but don't post much - and when I do there's not many replies because not many people know me any more (well I'm going to pretend that's the reason!).


ha ha, how can you say that - look at how many posts you have.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Goats started way way back with this annoying troll who kept posting obnoxious and insensitive threads in dog chat.
> @Nonnie answered one of his threads by saying "This thread is now about goats. Goat pics only please." It was just really funny in the moment and then we started posting pictures and cracking up. From there, whenever a thread gets heated or needs some lightening up, (and also for obvious trolls) the goats come out. Not just goats. Funny animal memes of all kinds are fair game. There have been some good ones. The pit bull dressed as a squirrel who lost his nuts still cracks me up


This one still cracks me up:


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Hanlou said:


> Never felt unwelcome here either.
> 
> I joined this forum when the previous dog forum I was on went a bit weird......i.e....... The administrator decided they would just ban everyone that disagreed with them..... ...... And the administrator had some very extreme views!!
> 
> Am happy here. There are lots of knowledgable folk here that I would be comfortable pm'ing for help etc and lots of lovely pics of dogs to coo over, which is the main point of a forum isn't it?!


I would hazard a guess that this will be the same forum as I was on 

I tend to dip in and out of forums and thought I was out of them all for good but I tend to have a little more time on my hands in the winter so here I am  I have never found this to be an unfriendly or unwelcoming place - but then I am pretty thick skinned, just get stuck in and try not to take any comments personally.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> This one still cracks me up:


here we go it has now come to this rotflmao


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

So there's a clique of three nasty people. Who are these mysterious people? No-one ever names names. 

So newbies get a hard time. Really? Never experienced this personally and only really deliberately provocative posts or troll like posts get that treatment.

I'm amazed no-one has yet mentioned that perhaps some posters are on the autistic spectrum so must be forgiven for their 'tone'. Nor has anyone whinged about anyone's spelling or grammar. Blimey!

And now I see goats are mentioned, thank God! I was just saying to @lostbear that we needed a mad goat thread, but some idiot declared the pictures only ever indicated trolls, which is, as ouesi clarified, just not true. Hallelujah!


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

cinnamontoast said:


> So there's a clique of three nasty people. Who are these mysterious people? No-one ever names names.
> 
> So newbies get a hard time. Really? Never experienced this personally and only really deliberately provocative posts or troll like posts get that treatment.
> 
> ...


so since it seems everyone feels welcome and the goats have already started flying lets get on with it and make everyone laugh.Let it all out and give us your all.I just cant join in since i am on my work computer.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Ok maybe i can:Finger


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

cinnamontoast said:


> So there's a clique of three nasty people. Who are these mysterious people? No-one ever names names.


Oooh how do you know there's 3 nasty people in the clique? I wanna guess who these mysterious people are


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Rott lover said:


> so since it seems everyone feels welcome and the goats have already started flying lets get on with it and make everyone laugh.Let it all out and give us your all.I just cant join in since i am on my work computer.


I agree!!! Get your goat on folks


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)




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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> so since it seems everyone feels welcome and the goats have already started flying lets get on with it and make everyone laugh.Let it all out and give us your all*.I just cant join in since i am on my work computer.*


What! How tight can you get? Too mean even to use your bosses' electricity!


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)




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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)




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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Oooh how do you know there's 3 nasty people in the clique? I wanna guess who these mysterious people are


*wonders who the other two are *


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)




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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Poor goats  forever tainted by their association with trolls. Did anyone ask their opinion? *runs off to write 20 page essay on tumblr*


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)




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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> Poor goats  forever tainted by their association with trolls. Did anyone ask their opinion? *runs off to write 20 page essay on tumblr*


lmao


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> *wonders who the other two are *


I shoulda know you'd be involved! :Smuggrin Bet you's have a secret handshake :Hilarious


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)




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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Although you want really nasty people, don't look on this thread just google goat memes


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


>


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)




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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


>


Isn't that a badger faced ram, recently shorn down to wirey undercoat? Don't mean to horn in or sound capricious, butt ewe know I'm not sheepish about separating the sheep from the goats.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> Isn't that a badger faced ram, recently shorn down to wirey undercoat? Don't mean to horn in or sound capricious, butt ewe know I'm not sheepish about separating the sheep from the goats.


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

There was an article in the news the other day that said cats were out to kill us thought this was appropriate


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Meezey said:


> *wonders who the other two are *


So was I!

So that's two of us - when we find the third, we can establish a coven . . .


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> I shoulda know you'd be involved! :Smuggrin Bet you's have a *secret handshake* :Hilarious


Hoofshake


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Catharinem said:


> Isn't that a badger faced ram, recently shorn down to wirey undercoat? Don't mean to horn in or sound capricious, butt ewe know I'm not sheepish about separating the sheep from the goats.


I suppose you think that's punny?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lostbear said:


> So was I!
> 
> So that's two of us - when we find the third, we can establish a coven . . .


Yeeeehaaaa


lostbear said:


> So was I!
> 
> So that's two of us - when we find the third, we can establish a coven . . .


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)




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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Isn't that a badger faced ram, recently shorn down to wirey undercoat? Don't mean to horn in or sound capricious, butt ewe know I'm not sheepish about separating the sheep from the goats.


I believe you might be right, it's a sheep in goat's clothing


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Poor goats  forever tainted by their association with trolls. Did anyone ask their opinion? *runs off to write 20 page essay on tumblr*


Well, they did go trip trapping over that bridge that one time.....


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Catharinem said:


> Isn't that a badger faced ram, recently shorn down to wirey undercoat? Don't mean to horn in or sound capricious, butt ewe know I'm not sheepish about separating the sheep from the goats.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Yeeeehaaaa
> 
> View attachment 251414
> View attachment 251415


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

lostbear said:


> So was I!
> 
> So that's two of us - when we find the third, we can establish a coven . . .


think that might be me


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> think that might be me


So . . . . when shall we three meet again . . . ?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

lostbear said:


> So . . . . when shall we three meet again . . . ?


I can see it now, the three of them crouched over a large vat of gin and tonic.

Hubble, bubble, toil and trouble


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)




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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> I can see it now*, the three of them crouched over a large vat of gin and tonic.*
> 
> Hubble, bubble, toil and trouble


Aye - and ye can stick a bottle of cream soda in that an' all - not everybody drinks alcohol.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> think that might be me


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Anyone wanna tell @lostbear that adding cream soda to everything doesn't make it non alcoholic?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Anyone wanna tell @lostbear that adding cream soda to everything doesn't make it non alcoholic?


No - but it stops anybody wanting to drink it.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

lostbear said:


> No - but it stops anybody wanting to drink it.


Cream soda goes good with vodka lol


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Rott lover said:


> Cream soda goes good with vodka lol


id go with that
with a cheeky cherry floating in it [or should that be eye of toad]


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> id go with that
> with a cheeky cherry floating in it [or should that be eye of toad]


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## Tyton (Mar 9, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> Cream soda goes good with vodka lol


My OH drinks 'creme soda' all the time. His version is pint glass, fill with ice, third full of vodka, good dash of vimto and top up with lemonade, et voila, delicious tasting, (and very alcoholic ;-)) cream soda


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

PF tends to have a bit drama and I've learned to just ignore it.


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