# London Bridge incident.



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Its being reported that a van has driven into a crowd of people seriously injuring some, The station is shut and armed police are at the scene . 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...n-lockdown-after-major-incident-a3556346.html


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)




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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

Awful. Just heard about it on the news


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I'm shocked but not suprised . I pray there's no fatalities :0(


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Shocked, I've just put the news on, luckily it seems no one has been killed.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Scotland Yard are now reporting a second incident at Borough Market...Armed police on site.

No further details yet.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Just saw this now. 

Please please not again. 

What a world we live in.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2017)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871126671927193601 This was in a bar near London Bridge


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just watching the news now. Stabbings & gunshots reported in separate incidents.


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## Kittynanna (Feb 15, 2015)

It's just awful

Now heard there has been a third incident too.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

spamvicious said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871126671927193601 This was in a bar near London Bridge


Terrifying!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Three incidences but not sure what the other two at Borough and vauxhall are . Loads of armed police and quite a few ambulances all South of the river.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Happy Paws said:


> Shocked, I've just put the news on, luckily it seems no one has been killed.


Fatalities confirmed


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)




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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

So soon after Manchester too. Obviously planned and a larger network of people involved this time. Very concerning.


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## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

It's awful 

But it's just going to make me be kinder to people, more appreciative of my friends and family. And be extra kind to people of all faiths; these attacks are intended to divide us, to terrify us and to turn us against Muslims in the twisted hope that it will drive more people into the arms of IS.

I refuse to turn against anyone.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Latest reports do say there is 3 incidencies, no words.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-40147014


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)




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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> Fatalities confirmed


Where? I can't find anything on the news sites.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Pappychi said:


> Where? I can't find anything on the news sites.


The link I posted above is BBC News live updated info


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

True @Kimmikins.

We can't live in fear of what are mostly rare incidents, even if they do seem more frequent as of late. Still, I'm only human, and I can't help feel a bit worried about future large events etc. I must admit, I was even slightly apprehensive attending Crufts this year! It's awful, but as you say, it's what these attacks are designed to do so you feel more determined to carry on as normal.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Where? I can't find anything on the news sites.


Sky and bbc ahave reported the london police authority on london bridge have confirmed twice now


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> Where? I can't find anything on the news sites.


Yes, BBC News channel have all the up to date info as it comes in.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Two now 

When is this madness going to end?


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Thanks guys.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Do you reckon tomoros event in mancheater will go ahead . What a quandary there gonna have


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> Two now
> 
> When is this madness going to end?


The question we're all asking


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> Do you reckon tomoros event in mancheater will go ahead . What a quandary there gonna have


It'll be heavily policed no doubt.

Me and the OH are in Manchester tomorrow for a testimonial at Old Trafford.

So lots going on in Manchester tomorrow.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Apperantly this is police lead and no intelligence agencies involved as yet.
Hope it's not another sleeping on watch episode


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> The question we're all asking


It makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Those poor families.

We're six months in to this year and it's been so heartbreaking all ready.


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## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> True @Kimmikins.
> 
> We can't live in fear of what are mostly rare incidents, even if they do seem more frequent as of late. Still, I'm only human, and I can't help feel a bit worried about future large events etc. I must admit, I was even slightly apprehensive attending Crufts this year! It's awful, but as you say, it's what these attacks are designed to do so you feel more determined to carry on as normal.


I'm not saying don't worry, I'm worried too  For some reason these ones are upsetting me more than the others, maybe it's a cumulative effect. 
Be cautious, be careful, just be kind and loving as you do it is what I'm planning to do. I will stick my fingers up while I kindness the [email protected] out of life!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Creativecat said:


> Do you reckon tomoros event in mancheater will go ahead


Think it will. Know people who had just about steeled themselves to go but think tonight might tip them into not doing. There are plenty entitled to free tickets who knew from the start they couldn't face it.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Just heard them say, there is more than one fatality.


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## PiddlingFish (Jun 3, 2017)

This is really sad but I'm not that surprised.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)




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## katie200 (May 11, 2009)

_I just heard about this, awful and heartbreaking.

My thoughts are with those who were caught up in it or injured and worse.

I hope everyone on here who are from that part of the world are safe and well. xx_


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I've just woken up, birds are singing loudly this morning, and put the radio on and heard this awful news

Our daughter lives in central London, so rushed to email her and found she has sent us an email. She's ok, wasn't near any of the incidents although one of them is close to the theatre where she works. There's a performance tomorrow so she expects to be on duty sorting out emergency arrangements


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Can't beleive i have woken up to this nightmare .after having to go to bed witnessing such horrors unfolding on the news I'm so sad at this cowardly act . What shocks me thou is that there was 3 of these losers . What a fkd up macabre situation that is worryingly growing . Where will this's madness end . My prayers go out yet again to the poor poeple involved in this tragedy . So sad on such a beautiful breaking day I'm at a loss for words :0(
More doors are going to be kicked in over the next few days I guess to try and piece this madness together . And try and make sense of it all .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

My heart goes out to the victims & their families. Once again our emergency services have been awesome.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> True @Kimmikins.
> 
> We can't live in fear of what are mostly rare incidents, even if they do seem more frequent as of late. Still, I'm only human, and I can't help feel a bit worried about future large events etc. I must admit, I was even slightly apprehensive attending Crufts this year! It's awful, but as you say, it's what these attacks are designed to do so you feel more determined to carry on as normal.


I live a mile or two from Twickenham stadium (holds 82,000 on a full gate) and worry when my son and friends from university meet up for a match. I now also often avoid public transport...sometimes it really gets to me. And I'm not nervous by nature. It's despicable...more innocent people involved.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Just awoke to see this on TV. Those few minutes it took me to find out that my DS and his friends were all OK were too long, but thankfully they were all safe. Am shaken to the core tbh 

I know we have to stand strong and not cave in to the evil bast*rds, but it's devastating news!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Very concerning.


Heard on the news yesterday they have 11 in custody still over the Manchester attack; not so many ''lone wolves'' now I don't think. They did say after Manchester that the bomb ''wasn't made on someone's kitchen table, it was far too sophisticated for that''. Really scary. We ought not to be surprised; after the attacks in France and elsewhere, our turn was well 'overdue' (sorry that sounds ghastly I know).


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I have just seen this on TV, again this incident happened not far away from me. I am that close to the incident I can hear the helicopters circling above.
















This is absolutely shocking news to wake up to.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I live very near Woolwich, South East London. I have lived here all my 54 years. I remember - & heard the IRA barracks bomb. Was actually in Woolwich during the Lee Rigby attack, I am absolutely horrified by this & all the other attacks. My son was born in 1988. I was over the moon with the Good Friday agreement, thinking my son could grow up in a safe world. Then 911 happened.
I sat at work with hundreds of students in the College where I worked, being unable to understand. The world changed on that day. 
I really am not a Political animal in any way, shape, or form. My son grew up to be a Police Officer & I worry every day he goes to work.
I have to say & this is a fact
THERE ARE NO MORE POLICE TO BE PUT ON THE STREETS.
What happens in these incidents? Theresa May says there will be more Police on the streets. SHE IS LYING
All that happens is the Police we have work longer shifts so, it looks like there are more. Once the Borough Commanders reserves has been mobilised, there is nobody else. This is why we have armed soldiers on the streets.
Austerity cuts should not affect our vital services. We need more, not less Police on the streets.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

A Facebook alert has gone out asking people to respond to the alert to let people know you are safe if you are in London:

Facebook Safety Check
The Attack in London, United Kingdom










When: 3 June 2017

Affected cities: Westminster and London, United Kingdom

Authorities continue to respond to several locations near London Bridge after a suspected terrorist attack. According to reports, suspects in a white van deliberately plowed into a crowd of pedestrians on London Bridge, injuring several people. After coming to a stop nearby, at least three suspects exited the vehicle and ran to the nearby Borough Market area, where they stabbed several people. Armed police officers responded to both locations immediately and gunshots were reportedly fired. According to reports, three suspects were shot and killed by police in the Borough Market area. Authorities continue to search and maintain a heavy presence in the area while the presence of other suspects is ruled out and as investigations remain ongoing. In addition to the deceased suspects, reports indicate at least six victims were killed in the attacks and as many as 78 were injured and transported to local hospitals, including at least one police officer. Victims have been transported to at least five hospitals across London. Several of the hospitals remain locked down as a precaution. Reports indicate that several victims with minor injuries were also treated at the scene. Earlier, police conducted at least three controlled detonations of suspicious objects in the vicinity. Reports indicated that the suspects were wearing what appeared to be suicide vests with explosive canisters; however, the vests were deemed to be hoax vests and the canisters did not contain explosives. London Bridge, the neighboring Southwark Bridge, and other roads in the vicinity remain closed as the investigation and response remains ongoing. The area is expected to remain closed for much of Sunday. Transit delays have been reported in the area due to police activity at local train stations. Residents and visitors are being asked to avoid the area and report all suspicious activity to authorities. Significant disruptions should be expected throughout the area until further notice.

Last updated on 4 June 2017 at 06:29

This information is provided by NC4, an independent safety and security company.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What occurs to me when these things happen is this: I feel myself turning into someone I never thought I could be. When I hear that the attackers have been shot dead, I am relieved and I feel that instant justice has been meted out as they will not kill anyone else. Yet I was always against the death sentence and still am, and never thought I would get a sense of relief that someone had been deliberately killed. You hear sometimes that someone has been murdered and the victim's family 'can forgive' the killer. They must be remarkable people to do that I always think; I'm quite sure I couldn't.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I am sad they were killed. They call it 'death by cop'. It means in their sick minds that they are martyrs. I live approx. 1/2 mile from Belmarsh & Woolwich crown court. Lee Rigby's killers are in there. If they don't get their martyrdom, it takes part of the murders away from them. Plus, however you look at it, those armed Police are immediately suspended pending investigation - which is just as it should be, and they have to live with it for the rest of their lives.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

spamvicious said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871126671927193601 This was in a bar near London Bridge


That's the bar that we celebrated my friend's 40th not too long ago


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I know we have to stand strong and not cave in to the evil bast*rds,


Easier said than done when every time you see the news there are pictures of people wrapped in tinfoil or being stretchered off into an ambulance..


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Calvine said:


> What occurs to me when these things happen is this: I feel myself turning into someone I never thought I could be. When I hear that the attackers have been shot dead, I am relieved and I feel that instant justice has been meted out as they will not kill anyone else. Yet I was always against the death sentence and still am, and never thought I would get a sense of relief that someone had been deliberately killed. You hear sometimes that someone has been murdered and the victim's family 'can forgive' the killer. They must be remarkable people to do that I always think; I'm quite sure I couldn't.


To me, it is quite different when an evil perpetrator is killed on the scene as it is a split second decision to save the lives of innocent people and minimise the devastation. Totally acceptable in my opinion and I have absolutely no sympathy for them at all.

Relief and even satisfaction are valid emotions in that instance, but I don't see it as meting out justice, but a means to preserving the lives of innocent people.

It is quite another to deliberate over and to kill in cold blood another human being (no matter how evil) as ultimately somebody has to carry out that act. That would diminish us as decent human beings, in my view.

Lock up and throw away the key is the only acceptable and civilised way in my opinion.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Franlow said:


> If they don't get their martyrdom, it takes part of the murders away from them


I understand your reasoning, but I don't give a damn about their imagined martyrdom. I read (true or otherwise) that the one who carried out the Manchester attack hasn't been buried yet...no-one wants to do it.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> to save the lives of innocent people and minimise the devastation.


Absolutely: if the police hadn't been there so quickly and killed them, the death toll would have been massive. As it is, it's bad enough...there will be some heart-broken families and friends today.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)




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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Absolutely: if the police hadn't been there so quickly and killed them, the death toll would have been massive. As it is, it's bad enough...there will be some heart-broken families and friends today.


And those police should be praised not have suspicion cast upon them!

*They *are on the front line doing their very best to keep *us *safe.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

Calvine said:


> What occurs to me when these things happen is this: I feel myself turning into someone I never thought I could be. When I hear that the attackers have been shot dead, I am relieved and I feel that instant justice has been meted out as they will not kill anyone else. Yet I was always against the death sentence and still am, and never thought I would get a sense of relief that someone had been deliberately killed. You hear sometimes that someone has been murdered and the victim's family 'can forgive' the killer. They must be remarkable people to do that I always think; I'm quite sure I couldn't.


I agree with you there. These people don't want forgiveness. They want to maim and kill in the twisted belief that they will be rewarded. If these were to go to prison they would do their best to radicalise more people and spread their poison.

It is giving Muslims a bad press. The vast majority are good kind people, but there are a tiny number of fanatics that are preaching in the streets trying to turn young minds. And it seems to be spreading. Can the police not do anything about known people who have links to jihad is? I'm sure I read there was a thousand odd they were keeping tabs on, but police are so stretched they can only monitor a few at a time. If they all decided to do something this small amount of people can cause havoc. We seem to be underestimating them.

I know people on here say it will not stop them doing what they normally do, but if this keeps happening thoughts and fears will begin to creep in. Second guessing everything. I am sure it has with a lot of people already.

It's terrifying what happened last night. I can't begin to imagine the impact it has had on all involved


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I too do not give a monkey's about their martyrdom. Other potential terrorists that are being radicalised as we speak, however, do. They believe they will go to 'heaven' if they die as a martyr. If at all possible (& I understand precisely why civilised people want them dead & unable to do harm any longer) they should be arrested & taken through our democratic judicial system.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

MiffyMoo said:


> That's the bar that we celebrated my friend's 40th not too long ago


Oh no


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I think you misunderstood my remark regarding the armed police who shot the terrorists. EVERY time a police gun is discharged in public, for whatever reason, those officers are taken off duty pending investigation. This is designed to ensure that every shot is warranted, necessary & within the bounds of our laws.
They do an horrific job keeping us safe, BUT, you surely must see that every person they shoot, for whatever reason, haunts them. They are highly trained & having socialised with them on many occasions, they absolutely hate that part of their job & agree themselves, that suspension & enquiry is exactly as it should be. If we don't have these rules for our Police, we reduce their effectiveness.
I would also say My son is a Metropolitan Police Officer, he will be working double shifts for the foreseeable future - until Friday at the earliest.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> To me, it is quite different when an evil perpetrator is killed on the scene as it is a split second decision to save the lives of innocent people and minimise the devastation. Totally acceptable in my opinion and I have absolutely no sympathy for them at all.
> 
> Relief and even satisfaction are valid emotions in that instance, but I don't see it as meting out justice, but a means to preserving the lives of innocent people.
> 
> ...


The fact that they were wearing, what everyone thought, were suicide vest just makes the police even braver, in my eyes. They thought that they were at real risk of being blown up, yet still ran towards them


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I couldn't agree more, it makes them a very special type of person


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Just saw this... waiting to hear back from my cousin or her bf. Her internet is clearly down as whatsapp message didn't send and the iPhone message changed into a text message. Don't have his new number so could only send fb message which he's still not seen... getting really worried and I know I could just try and phone but am terrified in case her phone will be off... fb says he was active 6 hours ago while she 9 hours ago... that's just before the attack.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

If he was on Facebook 6 hours ago - well after the attack, surely he would have said something & 9 hours ago is 1 1/2 hours after the attack too. There are officially 6 odd million people in London, they are probably still asleep & have no idea what went on. Hopefully they make contact soon.
Fran


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

My heart goes go to all the victims and their families and my thoughts are with the Police and the Emergence services who do a wonderful job and will have to live with this the rest of their lives.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

To those of you who think the reasons for these attack is due to cuts in policing.

I strongly disagree, no amount of police or armed forces on our streets will stop these attacks.

Thank you to our existing brave police officers who keep us safe under difficult circumstances 

Thoughts with those who have lost their lives those caught up in the events and the bereaved.

Saying no more, these evil creatures do no deserve breathe wasted on them


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I was following the incident on twitter and the amount of vitriol towards Muslims was horrendous. The Muslim council of Britain have just released a statement condemning the attack and it frustrates me so much that they have to. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that these cowards are not Muslims, they are extremists. Islam is not about murder.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

spamvicious said:


> I was following the incident on twitter and the amount of vitriol towards Muslims was horrendous. The Muslim council of Britain have just released a statement condemning the attack and it frustrates me so much that they have to. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that these cowards are not Muslims, they are extremists. Islam is not about murder.


It's the same as a cult, isn't it? They take disaffected youths and brainwash them, in the name of religion (whichever religion they decide to pick on). But what they're brainwashing then with has absolutely no bearing on the writings in the bible or the Quran


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Franlow said:


> If he was on Facebook 6 hours ago - well after the attack, surely he would have said something & 9 hours ago is 1 1/2 hours after the attack too. There are officially 6 odd million people in London, they are probably still asleep & have no idea what went on. Hopefully they make contact soon.
> Fran


Just worried as she posted a photo yesterday afternoon from Tate modern and they like going out to eat and drink on Saturdays. They don't normally sleep in as they wake up early to walk the dog. I'm just hoping they're not injured and in a hospital or something. I've got dosens of friends checking in as 'safe' in London right now but she's like a sister to me. We grew up together.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> Just worried as she posted a photo yesterday afternoon from Tate modern and they like going out to eat and drink on Saturdays. They don't normally sleep in as they wake up early to walk the dog. I'm just hoping they're not injured and in a hospital or something. I've got dosens of friends checking in as 'safe' in London right now but she's like a sister to me. We grew up together.


I hope it's all well and it's something as innocent as she forgot to charge her phone last night


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

DT said:


> To those of you who think the reasons for these attack is due to cuts in policing.
> 
> I strongly disagree, no amount of police or armed forces on our streets will stop these attacks.
> 
> ...


And the fact is, in a democratic and civilised society, we cannot arrest and imprison people based on a suspicion (however strong) that they may do something.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> Just saw this... waiting to hear back from my cousin or her bf. Her internet is clearly down as whatsapp message didn't send and the iPhone message changed into a text message. Don't have his new number so could only send fb message which he's still not seen... getting really worried and I know I could just try and phone but am terrified in case her phone will be off... fb says he was active 6 hours ago while she 9 hours ago... that's just before the attack.


I hope you are able to get in touch with your cousin or her boyfriend soon? I hope they are safe?


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Not in a million years would I say these attacks are due to a cut in policing. It is their warped ideology. I was pointing out that there will NOT be more police on the streets, just the same poor totally knackered police working double shifts. You cannot cut 7,000 Police officers & more to come in the London area without an increase in crime. All crime. You are all saying how wonderful the Police and emergency services are - and they are, but, how long do you think they will be effective working longer & longer hours? All leave cancelled, all days off stopped. My son has 19 days off cancelled so far this year. He has managed to take one week off since January. How long do you honestly think these people can be effective?
If you drop the ball at work, at the worst you get a rollicking, if they do ......


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> To those of you who think the reasons for these attack is due to cuts in policing.
> 
> I strongly disagree, no amount of police or armed forces on our streets will stop these attacks.
> 
> ...


Recently (over the last 12 months) they beefed up armed police in London and myself I have not noticed any cuts in fact the opposite, more bobbies around. Either way they responded very, very quickly which was incredibly impressive. I don't think this attack was linked to policing cuts in any way.

These people that carried out this attack do not represent Muslims in any way. They are just evil people attacking people on their way out for a night out or already out having a night out.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)




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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> And the fact is, in a democratic and civilised society, we cannot arrest and imprison people based on a suspicion (however strong) that they may do something.


We can, and do, hold people suspected of terrorism without charge for longer than on other offences. It's a balancing act though, if we turn into a police state then it's just another way the terrorist has won. I think we do OK, Unlike the IRA these scumbags are out for people rather than property and they aren't the 'organised network' we got used to dealing with in years gone by. Three guys with knives and a van doesn't take much organising which means there isn't much to pick up on beforehand.


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## Mercgirl (Feb 18, 2017)

I finally feel able to post now I know that Wookie's puppy sitters are safe and on their way home. Leigh and Justine were in London for a festival, but fortunately haven't been caught up in this horrific incident. 

Waiting to hear they were OK was dreadful, so anyone waiting for a family member to contact them must have been feeling a hundred times worse.

I just can't find any more words at the moment, it's been a horrible night.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Lock up and throw away the key


Except that prisons are (allegedly) breeding grounds for terrorism. It seems that many 'jihadists' became radicalised in jail. If these murderers had been injured, tried and jailed, they themselves would be radicalising many other young guys. It really is a vicious circle/catch 22 situation, @Lurcherlad.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

DT said:


> To those of you who think the reasons for these attack is due to cuts in policing.
> 
> I strongly disagree, no amount of police or armed forces on our streets will stop these attacks.
> 
> ...


There has been cuts in policing, as crime has been falling, but more importantly, the anti-terrorism budget has increased by 30%


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

HarlequinCat said:


> These people don't want forgiveness.


Which is why it's so powerful. They feed off our outrage and our hatred - they understand that.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Again I have no words to express my feeling about this terrible crime

How can these deprived people kill using their God as an excuse, it defeats me


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

It's been niggling away at me for a while, now even more... Ok Sir Cliff was wronged but 1 million + in damages???The public that made him famous and the police force that have safe guarded him all these years need it more.
Come on Sir Cliff, dont be greedy. Give some back and help our people overcome these vile tragedies.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

spamvicious said:


> I was following the incident on twitter and the amount of vitriol towards Muslims was horrendous. The Muslim council of Britain have just released a statement condemning the attack and it frustrates me so much that they have to. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that these cowards are not Muslims, they are extremists. Islam is not about murder.


Trouble is there's some part of the Quran these people have interpreted in their own way, so much so they literally shout about it whilst committing murder. And with three thousand know potential murderers on our streets, going under the Muslim faith, it's not going to get better any time soon.

So it's not surprising people are becoming less tolerant of what appears to be a very disfunctional faith.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Mum2Heidi said:


> It's been niggling away at me for a while, now even more... Ok Sir Cliff was wronged but 1 million + in damages???The public that made him famous and the police force that have safe guarded him all these years need it more.
> Come on Sir Cliff, dont be greedy. Give some back and help our people overcome these vile tragedies.


I would hope he gives it to charity if he wins, those poor people could do with it


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Saw this at midnight last night and been keeping up with it throughout ( was on a 12 hour nightshift). I had to check on my sister this morning as she lives in Central London thankfully she's checked in safe online and I spoke to her a few minutes ago (no phone or internet signal at work so had to wait until I left this morning)

I'm really glad we have such strict gun control in the UK else I fear it would've been a lot worse. My heart goes out to everyone effected by last night's tragedy


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I was led to believe their God was kind and gentle to all living things
As such I can't understand why they have to kill innocent people, it should be against their beliefs


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

What terrible news to have to wake up to this morning.
My heart goes out to all concerned .Also thanks to the police and all emergency services who bravely risk there lives to help when these terrible attacks happen.

At this time no more to say, words are just not enough.


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## Odin_cat (Mar 14, 2017)

Thoughts with everyone affected .


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Another day. Another tragedy.  Deepest sympathies to the families of the fallen.



HarlequinCat said:


> These people don't want forgiveness.


Forgiveness is another level of letting go of past hurt and wrongdoing - it's not just about the recipient.

"Don't forgive others because they deserve it. Forgive others because YOU deserve PEACE".

"Forgive, but never forget".


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Bisbow said:


> I was led to believe their God was kind and gentle to all living things
> As such I can't understand why they have to kill innocent people, it should be against their beliefs


It wasn't against the beliefs of those _three individuals_ any more than it isn't against the beliefs of any individual, of any religion who commits such atrocities.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> Trouble is there's some part of the Quran these people have interpreted in their own way, so much so they literally shout about it whilst committing murder. And with three thousand know potential murderers on our streets, going under the Muslim faith, it's not going to get better any time soon.
> 
> So it's not surprising people are becoming less tolerant of what appears to be a very disfunctional faith.


Dysfunctional faith? Crusades anyone? Cromwell? 
Acts of love , compassion and charity were also done in the name of faith...
Islam, Judaism or Christianity are essentially religions meant to give people laws to live well and peacefully.

Atheism is no better...look what commies had done in Russia, China and so on...

Evil people exploit their religion and use young and gullible.

I blame hate preachers , the are the same in every faith, I do not blame the faith itself.

I do feel devastated. Just came back from London where we enjoyed hospitality and friendliness of all kind of people.

I have muslim neighbours right next door and I am always treated like one of them.

What a terrible, terrible situation and we must not let hate divide us.
We have to stand up to fear.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Wasn't the 'terror threat alert' increased after Manchester then reduced a few days ago from 'critical' to 'severe'?
I wonder if any of this lot will be homegrown and on the 'known to the authorities' list?


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Calvine said:


> I understand your reasoning, but I don't give a damn about their imagined martyrdom. I read (true or otherwise) that the one who carried out the Manchester attack hasn't been buried yet...no-one wants to do it.


Tbh I don't give rats [email protected]#k abt how in there deluded minds they think there going anywhere where's there's supposedly 12 virgins . What abt tht sick f###er in Manchester what the hell is he gonaa do in paradise when he rocks up with his brains and balls 25 yards apart deluded tool


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> I wonder if any of this lot will be homegrown and on the 'known to the authorities' list?


Probably. We'll know in the coming days.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Dysfunctional faith? Crusades anyone? Cromwell?
> Acts of love , compassion and charity were also done in the name of faith...
> Islam, Judaism or Christianity are essentially religions meant to give people laws to live well and peacefully.
> 
> ...


Totally agree.

Hate isn't about religion. It's just an excuse to commit these atrocious acts of terrorism.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Except that prisons are (allegedly) breeding grounds for terrorism. It seems that many 'jihadists' became radicalised in jail. If these murderers had been injured, tried and jailed, they themselves would be radicalising many other young guys. It really is a vicious circle/catch 22 situation, @Lurcherlad.


And there's another area that needs a good shake up!

Our prisons should be punishing people for their crimes, protecting them from radicalization and rehabilitating them. I think there should be much more segregation given the woefully inadequate levels in staffing. It's impossible to monitor inmates when there are so many together at any one time.

As they stand our prisons are a hotbed for radicalization and criminalization. Offenders often come out worse than when they went in. The system fails to prevent the inmate from holding the power.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

PM did not raise the threat level and told people to carry on as normal. She said that all the attacks recently are not linked by a common network according to counter terrorism sources.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

News reports are coming through that a massive raid has taken place in Barking East London at 7am this morning on a block of flats.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> News reports are coming through that a massive raid has taken place in Barking East London at 7am this morning on a block of flats.


No doubt TV news will be flooding the airwaves with more speculation and interviews which aren't news. I saw one interview this morning which was a totally unnecessary and graphic account of the attack on one victim.  I can't think of a single justification for broadcasting it. Have we really become so ghoulish that our national broadcaster thinks this is what we want?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I know this is a sad heartbreaking thread but this made me smile

*Howard Mannella*‏@*hmannella* 11h11 hours ago

People fleeing #*LondonBridge* but the bloke on the right isn't spilling a drop. God Bless the Brits!


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I know this is a sad heartbreaking thread but this made me smile
> 
> *Howard Mannella*‏@*hmannella* 11h11 hours ago
> 
> People fleeing #*LondonBridge* but the bloke on the right isn't spilling a drop. God Bless the Brits!


Do you blame him? Do you know how much a pint is in Borough?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

havoc said:


> Have we really become so ghoulish


Not sure about 'ghoulish', tho' you can bet your bottom dollar some people got out their phones to record the incident for posterity; but the news of such an attack, altho' it continues to shock and horrify, no longer surprises anyone...the first one did, but not now. Think it's now three here in UK in as many months, and then the ones in the rest of Europe. Certainly, some of the photos online are pretty graphic (click-bait I'm assuming). It's inevitable that we become, to a point, hardened to it, then the Mayor of London on one recent occasion said that it was all 'part and parcel' of living in a large city.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

"Prime Minister Theresa May warned Britain is in the grip of a spate of copycat terror attacks."
*I do wonder if it is a good thing to flood the news with these attacks. Why give them so much airtime ? *


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I know this is a sad heartbreaking thread but this made me smile
> 
> *Howard Mannella*‏@*hmannella* 11h11 hours ago
> 
> People fleeing #*LondonBridge* but the bloke on the right isn't spilling a drop. God Bless the Brits!


Just wow...imagine taking your pint with you!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> Do you blame him? Do you know how much a pint is in Borough?


 I bet that was you holding the pint !


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I bet that was you holding the pint !


Afraid not  but must admit I frequently drink in Borough.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> Afraid not  but must admit I frequently drink in Borough.


Surely not!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> "Prime Minister Theresa May warned Britain is in the grip of a spate of copycat terror attacks."
> *I do wonder if it is a good thing to flood the news with these attacks. Why give them so much airtime ? *


I agree with you up to a point but we need to know what is happening so we can be more observant but they don' need to flood the news with it
It just gives them the coverage they long for
Difficult to know where to draw the line


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> I do wonder if it is a good thing to flood the news with these attacks. Why give them so much airtime ?


Much as I have been a firm supporter of the freedom of the press all my life I'm fast coming to the conclusion that there should be firm controls during such events. I sat for hours with the BBC news on my TV during the Manchester attack and* knew* their reporters were spouting rubbish just to fill time. I've seen the same last night and this morning.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Now this has made me angry. It isn't the kind of talk i want to hear, imho i think it like showing a red flag to a bull.*

*







*


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

What annoys me with the news is they interview eye witnesses who should be talking to the police not the news


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> What annoys me with the news is they interview eye witnesses


Police were taking witness statements at the time from those who really had something worthwhile to add. The desperation this time for reporters to get hold of people who can give a second by second account of how somebody died is beyond any decency - and how they 'feel' now isn't news.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

havoc said:


> Police were taking witness statements at the time from those who really had something worthwhile to add. The desperation this time for reporters to get hold of people who can give a second by second account of how somebody died is beyond any decency - and how they 'feel' now isn't news.


Surely though if they have given a witness statement to the police they shouldn't be broadcasting it to the media as it could hamper the police investigation. The police wouldn't tell you that your statement isn't credible as it would be looked at by the CPS so you wouldn't know it has been discounted.

It's terrible people think that this is the normal thing to do going to the press so they can get some airtime on TV.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

It's some preacher on social media calling for brothers to murder the infidels during Ramadan, same as last year and a bunch of disaffected, violent young men doing it.  I haven't watched the news since last night, I think it's going too far and starting to get ghoulish, almost revelling in it, sorry to say.


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## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

Time for another hashtag and lots more talk about love. That will sort the problem


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> It's terrible people think that this is the normal thing to do going to the press so they can get some airtime on TV.


They're given the airtime so who's at fault - is it the person in shock who isn't in the best condition to apply some filter to what they say or the broadcaster who is desperate to make out they're the one with some special access to information? What we're now fed as news seems to have fewer controls than advertising - at least that has to be legal, decent, honest and true.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I know this is a sad heartbreaking thread but this made me smile
> 
> *Howard Mannella*‏@*hmannella* 11h11 hours ago
> 
> People fleeing #*LondonBridge* but the bloke on the right isn't spilling a drop. God Bless the Brits!


Sent the picture to my son whose response was, 'Probably running to get to the next bar before closing time'.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> Why give them so much airtime ?


True @JANICE199: ...they love the publicity for their 'holy wars'.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Another thing about allowing them to live is that they would take up an NHS funded hospital bed until they are considered fit to go on trial. Then there would be doubtless megabucks in legal aid, then the cost of the trial, and then the cost of keeping them in jail during which time they will radicalise more would-be 'jihadis'. So all in all I think the police did a marvellous job, they saved ?? how many lives?? God knows...and these three won't kill anyone else. I'm OK with that.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Finally heard back from my cousin... They both are ok, though she is quite shaken up. She was having a catch up with a friend just around the corner in borough market. They were on their way home when everything happened. In all the chaos she lost her phone and then decided to go back home with her friend who lives alone. Only got home this morning and her boyfriend was out going to get her this morning so haven't noticed my message. Honestly, thought I was going to phone one of those numbers to find out if they are among the injured.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

Dr Pepper said:


> Trouble is there's some part of the Quran these people have interpreted in their own way, so much so they literally shout about it whilst committing murder. And with three thousand know potential murderers on our streets, going under the Muslim faith, it's not going to get better any time soon.
> 
> So it's not surprising people are becoming less tolerant of what appears to be a very disfunctional faith.


It doesn't have to be interpreted it is there in black and white. Of the 114 verses in the Quran 87 of them give vent to their feelings of non-believers and the punishment they will endure.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> Finally heard back from my cousin... They both are ok, though she is quite shaken up. She was having a catch up with a friend just around the corner in borough market. They were on their way home when everything happened. In all the chaos she lost her phone and then decided to go back home with her friend who lives alone. Only got home this morning and her boyfriend was out going to get her this morning so haven't noticed my message. Honestly, thought I was going to phone one of those numbers to find out if they are among the injured.


Oh phew! Poor her though, I'm not surprised she's really shaken up


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

foxiesummer said:


> Of the 114 verses in the Quran 87 of them give vent to their feelings of non-believers


And by coincidence, the last two attacks have targeted people enjoying themselves, enjoying the western lifestyle that these morons supposedly despise so much (despite the 'homegrown' ones having happily accepted and enjoyed the benefits of it for many years). I read that the Manchester bomber had a £7000 student loan...


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

foxiesummer said:


> It doesn't have to be interpreted it is there in black and white. Of the 114 verses in the Quran 87 of them give vent to their feelings of non-believers and the punishment they will endure.


That's just charming.


----------



## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

Calvine said:


> And by coincidence, the last two attacks have targeted people enjoying themselves, enjoying the western lifestyle that these morons supposedly despise so much (despite the 'homegrown' ones having happily accepted and enjoyed the benefits of it for many years). I read that the Manchester bomber had a £7000 student loan...


They also don't like entertainment and social media. Strange that they should then be seen,filming on their mobile phones, the burning of dozens of TVs.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I would just like to point out, that Christians kill on a daily scale. But their bible says, they must not kill. So i don't see any point in talking about religion.*
*Just saying *


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Them & us?? really???
Does this not sound like the terrorists are winning?
No religion is bad, it is the fallible humans who make that judgement, just like no dog is bad, it is ill informed owners.
As for the man with the pint.... exactly what most of the men in my life would have done.
Who won the champions league final, far more interesting material for discussion


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

JANICE199 said:


> *I would just like to point out, that Christians kill on a daily scale. But their bible says, they must not kill. So i don't see any point in talking about religion.*
> *Just saying *


Huge difference being they don't do it in the name of religion or believe their religion tells them murder is ok. If fact at least Christians have the ten commandments which aren't open to interpretation/manipulation.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> Huge difference being they don't do it in the name of religion or believe their religion tells them murder is ok. If fact at least Christians have the ten commandments which aren't open to interpretation/manipulation.


*No difference at all imo. No matter who kills, they are wrong.*


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Dr Pepper said:


> Huge difference being they don't do it in the name of religion


Really?

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/03/the_10_worst_examples_of_christian_or_far_right_terrorism_partner/

You can scroll through history and find countless examples of some Christians killing in the name of religion...It is not the religion at fault, take away religion and they would find some other excuse to commit their horrors.

It didn't take long for this to turn into a religion bashing thread


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Lurcherlad said:


> And there's another area that needs a good shake up!
> 
> Our prisons should be punishing people for their crimes, protecting them from radicalization and rehabilitating them. I think there should be much more segregation given the woefully inadequate levels in staffing. It's impossible to monitor inmates when there are so many together at any one time.
> 
> As they stand our prisons are a hotbed for radicalization and criminalization. Offenders often come out worse than when they went in. The system fails to prevent the inmate from holding the power.


I said this many weeks ago and was dismissed but it is an ongoing problem . I'm sad of this stand together and be strong . It needs to be addressed now . But how can we combat and adress this morbid mentality with death and destruction 
I'm sad but angry also


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

JANICE199 said:


> *No difference at all imo. No matter who kills, they are wrong.*


That is true. Just seems the Muslim religion is the current one of choice for terrorists.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> That is true. Just seems the Muslim religion is the current one of choice for terrorists.


*The media needs to stop using the word muslim. They have blood on their hands too. ( the media i mean )*


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

The more I read the more it just seems to be disaffected young people who have chosen a particularly violent cause, led by extremists. It's happened before and it'll happen again, little to do with religion really. Young men seem particularly easy to manipulate. I expect psychologists know why it's more young men than little old ladies. Little old ladies are often very religious, but rarely go on the rampage. 

Blaming religion is giving them an excuse for it. There's no reason for stabbing people, whether you do it shouting about allah, or because a rival outside a nightclub has peed you off. There's always some excuse given for revved up, excited, violent individuals, whether it's gang warfare or so called religious extremism, it's just an excuse and, I agree, they'd probably find another one.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> Huge difference being they don't do it in the name of religion or believe their religion tells them murder is ok. If fact at least Christians have the ten commandments which aren't open to interpretation/manipulation.


Really? People with " Gott mitt uns" were exterminating Jews and also other Christians...
Add extermination of American Indians, slave trade, etc...

Neither God or faith are to blame...

Who burnt " witches" and "heretics" in the name of God?


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Elles said:


> The more I read the more it just seems to be disaffected young people who have chosen a particularly violent cause, led by extremists. It's happened before and it'll happen again, little to do with religion really. Young men seem particularly easy to manipulate. I expect psychologists know why it's more young men than little old ladies. Little old ladies are often very religious, but rarely go on the rampage.
> 
> Blaming religion is giving them an excuse for it. There's no reason for stabbing people, whether you do it shouting about allah, or because a rival outside a nightclub has peed you off. There's always some excuse given for revved up, excited, violent individuals, whether it's gang warfare or so called religious extremism, it's just an excuse and, I agree, they'd probably find another one.


Trouble is it's all to easy to manipulate these people in the UK simply because the Western lifestyle is almost wholly incompatible with Islamic faith.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

cheekyscrip said:


> Really? People with " Gott mitt uns" were exterminating Jews and also other Christians...
> Add extermination of American Indians, slave trade, etc...
> 
> Neither God or faith are to blame...
> ...


I was actually thinking of where we are now in a, supposedly, more enlightened twenty first century.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I have a friend who fled his home country due to persecution by extremists and has been granted asylum in Britain. He now lives in London and I know he will come in for abuse and threats in the next few weeks by anyone who thinks all 'foreigners' are suspect terrorists (it has happened before). It breaks my heart that people who have fled persecution in their own land and sought sanctuary here are now being blamed for the very thing they have fled from. We don't even know the nationalities of the people responsible, yet already social media is full of calls to ban refugees, close our borders etc.

We need to do more to reach out to young Muslims. I've had very interesting conversations with some who were taken aback to find out what I really think & believe. One was very angry at being mislead by his Imam! As long as we maintain a 'them and us' attitude, the field is left open for them to be manipulated and brainwashed by evil people who enjoy causing destruction and death because no one is around to give another point of view.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Trouble is it's all to easy to manipulate these people in the UK simply because the Western lifestyle is almost wholly incompatible with Islamic faith.


Plenty of muslims do fine. If you read the bible, western lifestyle is pretty incompatible with the Christian faith too. I'm not sure which faith it would be compatible with. It's not what they're using to manipulate these young people, it's why they're so easily manipulated and how to give them the strength of will to resist it. They need something else to fill their lives probably and an empathy, which religious and racial hatred won't provide them. We attack faiths and religion, it's unfounded and we feed the fire imo.

There is no answer here, it's useless looking for one imo. All we can hope is that family and friends spot something amiss and the authorities act on it. Maybe they have to look to psychology instead of prisons and people generally need to be kinder to each other.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> I have a friend who fled his home country due to persecution by extremists and has been granted asylum in Britain. He now lives in London and I know he will come in for abuse and threats in the next few weeks by anyone who thinks all 'foreigners' are suspect terrorists (it has happened before). It breaks my heart that people who have fled persecution in their own land and sought sanctuary here are now being blamed for the very thing they have fled from. We don't even know the nationalities of the people responsible, yet already social media is full of calls to ban refugees, close our borders etc.
> 
> We need to do more to reach out to young Muslims. I've had very interesting conversations with some who were taken aback to find out what I really think & believe. One was very angry at being mislead by his Imam! As long as we maintain a 'them and us' attitude, the field is left open for them to be manipulated and brainwashed by evil people who enjoy causing destruction and death because no one is around to give another point of view.


I couldn't agree more.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> I was actually thinking of where we are now in a, supposedly, more enlightened twenty first century.


Human nature does not change in mete decades...if you just look at what going on in Africa, Asia, South America....or even what happened in the middle of Europe in former Yugoslavia ...did we manage to stop the carnage?


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Teresa may says its a new trend were experiencing WTF!
It's not a new trend it's the frequency of these atrocities that are being
Commited . Wake up Teresa may and deal with this problem as its not going away stop being politically correct and over tolerant as that has fuelled this car crash mentality
Enough is enough
Now


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Creativecat said:


> Teresa may says its a new trend were experiencing WTF!
> It's not a new trend it's the frequency of these atrocities that are being
> Commited . Wake up Teresa may and deal with this problem as its not going away stop being politically correct and over tolerant as that has fuelled this car crash mentality
> Enough is enough
> Now


What do you think she should do exactly?


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Campaigning suspended while I stand outside Downing Street and put forward my 4 point plan for dealing with terrorism.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> What do you think she should do exactly?


Well clearley what there doing at the moment isnt working . I don't think tea and biscuits would work . Harsh words and a tut tut won't suffice either . Any ideas yourself maybe


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*My answer would start with, media blackouts on these attacks, stop selling arms to countries we know will use them for no good, and keep out of wars that do not involve our business :Banghead*


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Creativecat said:


> Well clearley what there doing at the moment is working . I don't think tea and biscuits would work . Harsh words and a tut tut won't suffice either . Any ideas yourself maybe


No I''m not a security or terrorist expert. Not sure anyone has suggested tea and biscuits. Perhaps properly funding the police force so that community officers can do their job properly might be one place to start.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Elles said:


> Campaigning suspended while I stand outside Downing Street and put forward my 4 point plan for dealing with terrorism.


Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't though.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I feel sorry for the many of who
Suffered horrific injuries last
Nite 21 are critical . That's shocking


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No I''m not a security or terrorist expert. Not sure anyone has suggested tea and biscuits. Perhaps properly funding the police force so that community officers can do their job properly might be one place to start.


I totally agree there needs to be funding
But not even sure what they can implement . Surely it would be there family and mosque leaders that could intervene when they see signs .and censor what crap is being peddled on the Internet . I think the Internet providers have some responsibilities that they could do more in my view . But it's a quandary that's for sure


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Well, if I was Theresa at clearly I'm not as no way would I do her job, however,
I would
1) Force social media sites to remove all terrorist materials immediately. Close down ALL social media in the UK for 24 hours, then hold them to ransom. Stop bloomin well asking them to regulate themselves, tell them, then lay charges against their CEO's if they refuse. The internet comes into virtually every house in Europe. You couldn't have this hate material on TV, or radio, so, why are people so stupid about the internet? Human rights my a***
Enough is enough.
2) If our youngsters go abroad anywhere to fight, remove their passports & do not let them back in the country, unless of course, they are in the armed forces.
3) It takes 300 people to provide round the clock surveillance on 1 'person of interest', there are a minimum of 5,000 ' persons of interest' in the UK at the moment. You do the maths.
4) Stop calling them terrorists & so called Islamic state. Invent a new & totally ridiculous name for these people & make the media use it . Don't print their names, photos, or, any other details, don't interview their schoolmates, past teachers, or, anything else that glorifies their dreadful deeds.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Media should deliver just the essential information. To warn and inform, but not to satisfy morbid curiosity.

Good place to start, as this is making us safer by not encouraging copycat attacks.


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## Franksthename (May 31, 2017)

London terror attack witness gives defiant interview http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/advert...ack-eye-witness-defiant-news-interview-viral/ via @DigitalSpy


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

CuddleMonster said:


> are now being blamed for the very thing they have fled from


The fact is, the terrorists are doing this deliberately to cause division in our society...this is one of the ways they are winning, unfortunately.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

It just sickens me tht we have had tp endure that other piece of shits face plastered over the tv for the last 2 weeks and now will need to suffer another round of pathetic losers ugly mugs all over again ffs


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Sent the picture to my son whose response was, 'Probably running to get to the next bar before closing time'.


:Smuggrin yeah !


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Think before you post

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/think-tweet-wake-attack/?mbid=social_fb_onsiteshare


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> I was actually thinking of where we are now in a, supposedly, more enlightened twenty first century.


I can't think of anything more representative than of 'where we are now' than this.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Just look at the coverage it has had, tv, social media, the newspapers their supporters must be. so proud!


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

MollySmith said:


> I can't think of anything more representative than of 'where we are now' than this.
> 
> View attachment 313312


Shame that same Muslim council doesn't...

**** it, if you posts against the "Muslim" terrorists you get called a racist. Yet these bastards are killing us under the banner of Islam. Who's the racist? It's not the innocent being murdered on the streets of their own country. It's a religion that's got out of hand because our way of life can't coexist with theirs and for so long the PC brigade have ignored the real issues of a multicultural society.

3,000 know possible Islamic terrorists under surveillance, if they recruite ten each and then so and so forth, well do the maths.

Go on, let the name calling and racist comments commence. But for the first time last night's racist hate crime has really got me angry. There's no excuses for their actions.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> Go on, let the name calling and racist comments commence. But for the first time last night's racist hate crime has really got me angry.


Don't think you're alone in that to be honest. I am saddened but I understand it.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been avoiding watching tv, just switched it on and before I can turn over from an extra news report, I've seen the sad pathetic bodies of 2 people wearing fake suicide vests and I'm sorry, hate me if you like, but I think it's heartbreaking.

Little girls going to pop concerts, people out and about having a quiet beer and misguided people going out with the intent to kill and maim. What were they thinking and saying as they strapped those fake vests onto themselves? People, stop it, there is no such thing as infidels or an afterlife and you are not a hero. You are a misinformed, manipulated, stooge.

Racism and hatred is wrong, sad and pathetic, whether you kill people over it, or just insult them. We are all human. I too wish they would stop calling them terrorists and talking about ISIL or Isis, or so called Islamic State or whatever, it's giving them a face, a group and a voice and way too much air time. It must make it so much worse for the poor victims and their families, if even I, someone 'unaffected' can't bear to watch the news.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Elles said:


> Little girls going to pop concerts, people out and about having a quiet beer


@Elles: it would appear they hate our lifestyle, clearly.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Elles said:


> I too wish they would stop calling them terrorists


At least no-one is calling them 'freedom fighters', so that's something.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

You are right, there are issues with living in a multicultural society. One of my heroines, a wonderful lady who is both Muslim and an immigrant in Finland gives talks about it. Her face is currently one featured on the cascais train in Portugal as 'Estamos a Mudar o Mundo'. 'We are changing the world.'

Don't blame muslims.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I truly believe the Muslim Council of Great Britain have totally lost the plot. I am fed up with all the 'not in my name', Islam doesn't teach murder etc. You are just washing your hands. These are YOUR young people, sons, brothers, nephews. How do you expect to be able to live peacefully within Communities, if you won't deal with the problem? Maybe I am just a better parent, but, I would damn well know if my son was involved in this. Are you telling me you don't talk to your children? Don't know their dreams, aspirations, hopes? Shame on you.
The same way, if I thought for one second my son was into something illegal in any way, shape, or form. I would be straight down the police station & that is the Gods honest truth. Are my morals stronger than yours?
I am a single Mother, my son is High functioning autistic & a Metropolitan Police officer. What gives you the right to allow your children to attempt to kill mine?
Don't tell me you did not know - I do not believe you. If you truly know so little of your own children - Shame on you!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

You think if you were up to no good in your 20s you couldn't keep it hidden from your parents?

That not to say I believe no-one, no family, no parent, no leader was complicit, but I'm sure my adult sons could hide it from me, if they were up to no good.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Elles said:


> Don't blame muslims.


You are right, I've been to a Muslim country, lovely people in their own environment and we were urged, neigh told, to abide by their culture whilst in their country, which we did. Why doesn't that work both ways?


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Elles said:


> You think if you were up to no good in your 20s you couldn't keep it hidden from your parents?
> 
> That not to say I believe no-one, no family, no parent, no leader was complicit, but I'm sure my adult sons could hide it from me, if they were up to no good.


Actually no I couldn't have kept it hidden from my Dad, he knew me incredibly well. And this is not 'up to no good' it is contemplating murder. Are you telling me that these horrendous radical beliefs are not spoken about? They can keep totally quiet with their relatives / friends / Mosque??? That, of course is without the foreign travel. Parents supposedly don't know about that either? You expect me to believe their sons disappear for months on end & the Parents don't know where they have gone?


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

I expect friends and even relatives and religious leaders could well be complicit, but I'm not going to accuse a genuinely horrified family member of being involved, or turning a blind eye and lying about their lack of knowledge and distress, just because they're related to the perpetrator. Muslims did go the police, more than once. It was reported in the Manchester reports. The reason the authorities have a list of potentials on their watch lists, is intelligence gathered from members of the Muslim community who came forward.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Anyway this thread is becoming very uncomfortable for me. I've never had a problem with any minority group, ethnic, religious, or otherwise where I live. We all seem to live pretty harmoniously here at the moment. People do abide by our laws here. In Muslim countries we might have to cover our heads or arms or take our shoes off or whatever. In the uk you can decide for yourself either way, whether you're Muslim or not. You can ask a visitor to take their shoes off to keep your carpet clean, or because it's your religion. That is our culture.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> You are right, I've been to a Muslim country, lovely people in their own environment and we were urged, neigh told, to abide by their culture whilst in their country, which we did. Why doesn't that work both ways?


Because we have too many blasted do gooders in their rose coloured specs who really believe our cultures can live happy side by side! We cant and it wont happen,


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Elles said:


> Anyway this thread is becoming very uncomfortable for me. I've never had a problem with any minority group, ethnic, religious, or otherwise where I live. We all seem to live pretty harmoniously here at the moment. People do abide by our laws here. In Muslim countries we might have to cover our heads or arms or take our shoes off or whatever. In the uk you can decide for yourself either way, whether you're Muslim or not. You can ask a visitor to take their shoes off to keep your carpet clean, or because it's your religion. That is our culture.


Really! You sure? You send a muslim woman to a male gyncologist You try giving a muslim meat that is not slaughtered halal! Yet its,fed to us, unknowingly! Abiding by our laws yes ?well if it is I don't want it because its a one way street
Sorry but its,all bullshit!
There ya go , report me


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Enough is enough.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

In every Avenue of life there is always going to be the final straw, or put another way there will always be the straw that breaks the camels back. some of us may have reached this point! for that reason they will be certain posters on this thread that I will not be responding to out of respect for other members whom I do respect!


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

In Manchester, the Father & the Brothers were both complicit & arrested. As I pointed out before there are a minimum of 5,000 persons of interest. It takes 300 people to keep round the clock surveillance on one person.
I don't have a problem with any minority group, race, or Religion. I have a problem with the Muslim Council of Great Britain. I don't consider mowing people down, stabbing & blowing up our kids living harmoniously. People abide by our laws - except the ones murdering & maiming. As for taking off shoes??? I have no idea the point you are trying to make.
Whilst everyone is bending over backwards trying to be politically correct & too worried about offending other races, religions & creeds. It seems we have forgotten to speak out for all of us. What do you think would happen If you went to Saudi Arabia, started drinking, walking around semi clad & forcing your religion down their throats? Yet, we allow ourselves to be dictated to by minorities. I don't like it when Jehovah's witnesses do that at my door, I will be damned if I will put up with it because some half witted sheep like radicalised murderers kill people in my home town.
It is indoctrination plain & simple. If we sit back & don't speak out we allow it.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> Shame that same Muslim council doesn't...
> 
> **** it, if you posts against the "Muslim" terrorists you get called a racist. Yet these bastards are killing us under the banner of Islam. Who's the racist? It's not the innocent being murdered on the streets of their own country. It's a religion that's got out of hand because our way of life can't coexist with theirs and for so long the PC brigade have ignored the real issues of a multicultural society.
> 
> ...


Echoing @havoc and saying that you aren't alone.

I have many friends who are Muslim and feeling upset, under scrutiny, as has been said, this isn't their religion and yet it's been appropriated as such. The phrase is ISIS surely or simply terrorist.

I don't know, I'm out of this thread, it's not comfortable reading at all. Not you at all @Dr Pepper but I really cannot tolerate @Franlow's comments and a few others.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

That is the last post on this from me. I have an opinion & a right to express it. I know the rhetoric is uncomfortable & do not wish to upset anyone.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Can I ask and this is a genuine question.

Why is no one allowed to critisize Islam? Or as soon as anyone does people seem to get all upset? Why does it upset some individuals so much to see a religion scrutinized?

I certainly haven't seen anything that I would class as discriminatory on this thread when referring to Islam or Muslims.

I think it's a huge shame people can't seem to have a discussion about it without getting so upset or without people being shutdown and told they're "religion bashing".

Last time I checked scrutinizing a religion wasn't a crime....


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

DT said:


> Really! You sure? You try giving a muslim meat that is not slaughtered halal! Yet its,fed to us, unknowingly!
> Sorry but its,all bullshit!
> There ya go , report me


Why would I report you? I don't eat meat. If we're going to get into it, are we talking about the care and consideration of enslaved animals kept in unnatural conditions and kicked around slaughter houses in the last moments of their lives? Or how about lab rats? Destroying the environment? Don't forget some Brits, even those in power want to bring back fox hunting.

We can campaign in this country for better conditions, cctv and the humane slaughter of animals if we must kill them. If you're bothered about how your dead animal was killed, campaign to get it labelled and guaranteed, or buy meat from local, free range, organically reared, humanely slaughtered animals and join peaceful protest against halal. In this country you can. 

I've just seen you mention gynaecologists. I know girls and women who don't want to see a male gynaecologist. It's not the end of the world if a female Muslim doesn't want to, or if their parent or husband doesn't want them to. Muslims campaign against things like fgm.

Please don't blame anyone other than those involved in this extremism for their actions.  It's really sad and divisive and it's what they want. 

Our country should be beautiful, tolerant, inclusive and persuasive. Not ugly, tyrannical, exclusive and dogmatic. My point about shoes is that here we have a choice, we neither have to keep them on, or take them off, we can choose to drink or not. That is our culture. Yes there are areas where integration and tolerance is lacking and sexism is rife, but that needs work from everyone, racism doesn't help.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> You are right, I've been to a Muslim country, lovely people in their own environment and we were urged, neigh told, to abide by their culture whilst in their country, which we did. Why doesn't that work both ways?


Maybe we can start with calling Christmas Christmas?
Nativity does not offend.
Ramadan is called Ramadan. Divali is called Divali. Passover is Passover .

Maybe we actually should continue our traditions as others continue and value theirs?

I personally send no seasonal greeting and some such.

Twenty years ago a friend of ours, Indian bramin was writing a book about rising radicalisation among some Islamic preachers ...
He told us that we are heading for war...before Twin Towers...
He hoped his book will be a warning.
He feared that not only Middle East but all world would be affected, nuclear attack inclusive.

I am afraid we really have to be ready for all scenarios.
Fanatics are not people with whom one can reason.

We , democratic countries must put aside squabbles and differences and stand together.

Germany, France, Britain, USA...we all are in it, though we do not want it.

We have no choice but to unite in our effort to protect our countrymen.

We have no choice but to erase IS.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

I know I said I wouldn't reply to this again, but


Elles said:


> racism doesn't help.


Islam is a RELIGION. Objecting to a tiny minority of the fundamentalist followers of a religion cannot possibly make me a racist & just because I don't have the same beliefs as you, does not automatically make me wrong.


Elles said:


> Our country should be beautiful, tolerant, inclusive and persuasive. Not ugly, tyrannical, exclusive and dogmatic.


THIS IS MY POINT EXACTLY!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Objecting to a tiny minority of fundamentalists and extremists who commit atrocities in the name of Islam, makes you the same as me, everyone I know, everyone with morals and the same as millions of Muslims worldwide who have been persecuted, murdered and fled to escape them.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Practically twins then


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## Franksthename (May 31, 2017)

I really don't like to feel the way i do but I can't help it is used to scoff at Enoch Powell's rivers of blood speech but now I'm beguining wonder was he right


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

Don't wonder, he most definitely was NOT right in any way, shape, or form.
He was a divisive racist, that speech is horrendous and should never see the light of day again. I remember my Dad ranting & raving about it as a small child. I still remember the language he used - unprintable - I was only 7, so had absolutely no clue what he was talking about. I revisited it in my late teens and was so thankful that the world & our country had moved on.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Shame that same Muslim council doesn't...
> 
> **** it, if you posts against the "Muslim" terrorists you get called a racist. Yet these bastards are killing us under the banner of Islam. Who's the racist? It's not the innocent being murdered on the streets of their own country. It's a religion that's got out of hand because our way of life can't coexist with theirs and for so long the PC brigade have ignored the real issues of a multicultural society.
> 
> ...


Surely a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. It doesn't particularly matter what name they do it in. Evil murdering b---tards are just that.



Franlow said:


> I truly believe the Muslim Council of Great Britain have totally lost the plot. I am fed up with all the 'not in my name', Islam doesn't teach murder etc. You are just washing your hands. These are YOUR young people, sons, brothers, nephews. How do you expect to be able to live peacefully within Communities, if you won't deal with the problem? Maybe I am just a better parent, but, I would damn well know if my son was involved in this. Are you telling me you don't talk to your children? Don't know their dreams, aspirations, hopes? Shame on you.
> The same way, if I thought for one second my son was into something illegal in any way, shape, or form. I would be straight down the police station & that is the Gods honest truth. Are my morals stronger than yours?
> I am a single Mother, my son is High functioning autistic & a Metropolitan Police officer. What gives you the right to allow your children to attempt to kill mine?
> Don't tell me you did not know - I do not believe you. If you truly know so little of your own children - Shame on you!


When I was 13-14 years old I got mixed up with some pretty bad older kids, my parents had just split up, life was chaos for them as well as for me. There is no way my Mum had any idea what terrible things I was up to, she still doesn't know most of it to this day. I wouldn't judge my Mum for me being a mixed up and out of control brat who made some pretty bad choices that led me to some pretty bad places. Funnily enough I've heard my Mum say several times when talking about other parents "My children would never have done that" or "I would know 100 % if my child was mixed up in something like that". There but for the grace of god .......


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Just watching the Manchester gig. Must really piss off these Islamic twats as it goes against everything they believe in.

Welcome to the UK. Love us or leave us.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Just watching the Manchester gig. Must really piss off these Islamic twats as it goes everything they believe in.
> 
> Welcome to the UK. Love us or leave us.


Yep it must.
But NO! Live as we do or don't bother coming.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Surely a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. It doesn't particularly matter what name they do it in. Evil murdering b---tards are just that.


I disagree, if matters immensely what name they do it under, it gives us a starting point to catch the bastards.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> I disagree, if matters immensely what name they do it under, it gives us a starting point to catch the bastards.


Not really - they were caught and shot - quite rightly without the police needing to know their religion or which particular branch of their religion has got distorted in their minds.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DT said:


> Yep it must.
> But NO! Live as we do or don't bother coming.


Does that apply to everyone though - do the Chinese and Indians need to eat the same food as us, stop celebrating their own festivals, do Jewish people need to stop going to synagogues and treating Saturday as the sabbath? where do we draw the line?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

_One has to ask why terrorists like those who struck last night in London, and earlier in Manchester, launched their attacks now. It is difficult not to infer that their violence was timed to influence the UK election on Thursday. Those behind the attack - whether those carrying it out or those dispatching the terrorists - want to have an effect. Terrorism is the use of indiscriminate violence for political ends. It has a logic, even if it is one we mostly do not care to understand.

So what do these terrorists hope to achieve?
Based on prior experience, they will assume that by striking now they can increase fear and anger among the British population - intensifying anti-Muslim rhetoric, justifying harsher "security" responses from the British state and shifting political support towards the right. That is good for their cause because it radicalises other disillusioned Muslim youth. In short, it brings recruits.

Islam is not exceptional in this regard. This is not a problem specifically of religion. As experts have repeatedly pointed out, disillusioned, frustrated, angry (and mainly male) youth adopt existing ideologies relevant to them and then search for the parts that can be twisted to justify their violence. The violent impulse exists and they seek an ideology to rationalise it._

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2017-06-04/why-the-london-terror-attack-occurred-now/


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Does that apply to everyone though - do the Chinese and Indians need to eat the same food as us, stop celebrating their own festivals, do Jewish people need to stop going to synagogues and treating Saturday as the sabbath? where do we draw the line?


We dont! Come here accept our way of life live as we do, dont try and stop our celebrations nor our customs, and most important dont piss on our poppies nor burn our flag! As for them being allowed their customs you know we are very tolerant! But we can change and we will!
Understand they are uncovering another paedophile ring in bradford by the way, but we wont mention that!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

By the way, I support nO religion but we are afterall a christian county, christians more then anyone should be safe here!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

DT said:


> Understand they are uncovering another paedophile ring in bradford by the way, but we wont mention that!


Can I just point out the 114 documents that were 'lost' regarding paedophiles in our own government?


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

DT said:


> We dont! Come here accept our way of life live as we do, dont try and stop our celebrations nor our customs, and most important dont piss on our poppies nor burn our flag! As for them being allowed their customs you know we are very tolerant! But we can change and we will!
> Understand they are uncovering another paedophile ring in bradford by the way, but we wont mention that!


I'm a bit lost here... are you implying that because some deranged individuals acting like that, it suggests that *all *Muslims somehow stand against your culture and are disrespecting your life style?
It's funny when you speak about British culture... considering how well known the British are fr their behaviour when just visiting other countries... https://www.theguardian.com/travel/...its-on-holiday-have-made-themselves-unwelcome


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DT said:


> We dont! Come here accept our way of life live as we do, dont try and stop our celebrations nor our customs, and most important dont piss on our poppies nor burn our flag! As for them being allowed their customs you know we are very tolerant! But we can change and we will!
> Understand they are uncovering another paedophile ring in bradford by the way, but we wont mention that!


I thought I saw plenty of British youths pissing on war memorials during the student riots and plenty of British football hooligans who boo other country's national anthems etc etc. and behave appallingly when abroad. Bad behaviour shouldn't be tolerated and I'm not saying it should be but its very sad to see/read such hatred. Oh and by the way I worked for social services in London in the late 80's and we had plenty of white British paedophiles - many of which had wives who knew their husbands were sexually abusing their children - we need to send a strong message to all adults that it won't be tolerated and they will be heavily punished when caught.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> I'm a bit lost here... are you implying that because some deranged individuals acting like that, it suggests that *all *Muslims somehow stand against your culture and are disrespecting your life style?
> It's funny when you speak about British culture... considering how well known the British are fr their behaviour when just visiting other countries... https://www.theguardian.com/travel/...its-on-holiday-have-made-themselves-unwelcome


I visit other countries, asia many times as it happens, my behaviour is impeccable thank you!
You quote refers to europe by the way!
Try that behaviour in saudi


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Honeys mum said:


> Enough is enough.


Why is there no #PrayForAfghanistan, #PrayForEgypt or #PrayForThePhilippines to mention just three recent non-Western terrorist attacks? I find it odd the way so many comments act as if terror attacks by Islamic extremists are something new. People have been dying in non-Western countries for years. In their 100s.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Elles said:


> Can I just point out the 114 documents that were 'lost' regarding paedophiles in our own government?


Figures! Probably mps


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

DT said:


> Figures! Probably mps


Accepting our way of life did you say?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

DT said:


> I visit other countries, asia many times as it happens, my behaviour is impeccable thank you!
> You quote refers to europe by the way!
> Try that behaviour in saudi


I have travelled to Asia, African and Middle East working in global publishing and spoken to Ministers of Education and their staff. One would then assume you speak to many people and realise that 'religion' is an excuse that these attackers hide behind. That this attack no more represents any religion that any sane person would recognise. I'm saddened and disappointed by your posts. Really disappointed. I really don't have any words to express it really.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I'm out, I said I was earlier and came back. Learned that PF just carries on as I expected. Heaven forbid someone might learn from someone else.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> I have travelled to Asia, African and Middle East working in global publishing and spoken to Ministers of Education and their staff. One would then assume you speak to many people and realise that 'religion' is an excuse that these attackers hide behind. That this attack no more represents any religion that any sane person would recognise. I'm saddened and disappointed by your posts. Really disappointed. I really don't have any words to express it really.


Feel free to feel disappointed, because believe you me you wont even touch on how I feel and,what I could say and do at this ,precise moment, WITHOUT having to make excuses for myself. Now I am not replying again, apologises to those who know me the rest of you I couldnt give a damd what you think, and if that includes you them so be it


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

CuddleMonster said:


> Why is there no #PrayForAfghanistan, #PrayForEgypt or #PrayForThePhilippines to mention just three recent non-Western terrorist attacks? I find it odd the way so many comments act as if terror attacks by Islamic extremists are something new. People have been dying in non-Western countries for years. In their 100s.


I'm afraid I can't answer that question for you. I just happened to see it on this website British Voice and thought IMO it was appropiate after the terrible attacks that are happening.
.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I think this guy says it best -


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> I have travelled to Asia, African and Middle East working in global publishing and spoken to Ministers of Education and their staff. One would then assume you speak to many people and realise that 'religion' is an excuse that these attackers hide behind. That this attack no more represents any religion that any sane person would recognise. I'm saddened and disappointed by your posts. Really disappointed. I really don't have any words to express it really.


Well actually apart from on just occasion I don't recall religion ever being mentioned!


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

@Honeys mum sorry just to clarify my comment wasn't meant as a criticism of your post. It's just that I find it very frustrating sometimes the way the media act as if non-Western lives are somehow less important than Western ones. You know how it is - 100s of people can be killed in an earthquake or flood and it's not seen as that 'newsworthy' but if one Western tourist is injured then it's all over the news.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

DT said:


> I visit other countries, asia many times as it happens, my behaviour is impeccable thank you!


I did not ask you about your behaviour specifically, but it's funny how you immediately feel the need to make sure that you're not grouped together with 'those' British :Angelic



DT said:


> You quote refers to europe by the way!


Which makes their behaviour even more bizarre considering the fact that the culture in europe isn't that all different from UK, eh? Yet, British males seem to struggle to keep their pants on for a couple of weeks out there without whipping their family jewels for all to see or pissing on monuments. Funny that.



DT said:


> Try that behaviour in saudi


Took this one last year while visiting Morocco. The girl and her boyfriend (seen in white top and shorts a few steps in front of her) spoke with a thick scouse accent. For the reccord - it was 15 degrees outside so really not that hot.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I'm cringing! Be regarded as bad manners even in some parts of Europe!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Honeys mum said:


> Enough is enough.


Yes. As sad as it is, Manchester and London are just the tip of the iceberg.  But, i is sad thst it missed off Afghanistan and the others.



CuddleMonster said:


> Why is there no #PrayForAfghanistan, #PrayForEgypt or #PrayForThePhilippines to mention just three recent non-Western terrorist attacks? I find it odd the way so many comments act as if terror attacks by Islamic extremists are something new. People have been dying in non-Western countries for years. In their 100s.


Amen!!!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> I think this guy says it best -


Brilliant - thank you for posting.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

So there is a news story out that says that police officer who was the first responder tried to stop the three attackers, carring only a baton. 

He suffered stabbings to his head, leg and face. 

He was a member of the British transport police and while he is in hospital he is expected to make a recovery. 

They did not name the officer. 

Three other officers including an off duty one, also obtained injuries after rugby tackling one of the attackers armed with nothing but his own hands. 

These officers also were faced with, what we now know were "fake bomb vests". The officers did not know at the time. 

Not forgetting the paramedics who rushed to the scenes to save lives which I am sure will haunt them for a long time. 

So yet again I am finding myself thanking the awesome emergency services in this country, who despite there own safety being at risk, run towards the danger and are able to put a stop to these clearly deranged psychos. 

I find the emergency services, and also stories of "normal" citizens coming to the aid of the injuried a beacon of light, in what is a very dark time.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

shadowmare said:


> Took this one last year while visiting Morocco. The girl and her boyfriend (seen in white top and shorts a few steps in front of her) spoke with a thick scouse accent. For the reccord - it was 15 degrees outside so really not that hot.
> View attachment 313326


Why on earth would you have taken that photo. Creepy to say the least.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

DT said:


> really believe our cultures can live happy side by side


Some, in fact the majority, can, @DT; but there is a minority who are determined not to live harmoniously. My neighbour is Turkish, Muslim and at Christmas has the biggest Christmas tree in the road! She sends and is happy to receive Xmas cards. But there are some councils (allegedly) who are afraid of putting up a Christmas tree/lights, etc, as they fully expect the whole of the muslim community to be offended. The majority won't be offended at all and appreciate the fact that we are happy to see them celebrate their own religious high days and holidays. It should work both ways. It also annoys me when Xmas cards have 'Season's Greetings',...I even saw one with 'Winter Wishes'. WTF is a 'winter wish? I also notice that many schools round here don't have a Christmas Fair/Fayre but a Winter Fair. One I noticed and could not believe my eyes was a 'Winter Sparkle'! I was speechless.

Have just seen online that one of the terrorists was ''well-known to authorities''...again.


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Dr Pepper said:


> Why on earth would have taken that photo. Creepy to say the least.


And Morocco is NOT Saudi...


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Calvine said:


> .I even saw one with 'Winter Wishes'. WTF is a 'winter wish? I also notice that many schools round here don't have a Christmas Fair/Fayre but a Winter Fair. One I noticed and could not believe my eyes was a 'Winter Sparkle'! I was speechless.
> .


Birmingham City Council Christams light were called something like that a few years ago, can't remember what they called it, everyone when mad they have done it again.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I do think we can live harmoniously and have for many years
But there is a small minority that wil never except this and want to change the face of British society . I do think al the governments have been complacent and over PC. And let us all down . To think remember that hook preacher preaching in the road at the fins bury mosque and the authority's sat back and did nothing , that's where the problems lie . Thank god they eventually shipped him out after much red tape and now rotting in an American prison thank god . But I'm sad to say his is one of many that have the intentions to do us all harm
And now we have a sad sick game 
Of catch up and trying to deal with there murderous intentions . Sad but 
A fact of life now


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Just saw this on BBC news.
London attack: Police 'know identities of killers' - BBC News


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> I think this guy says it best -


Excellent.

I did love his comment ...
" Find a jihadist ...I couldn't even find Wally in that book"

The people that carry out these atrocities are criminals ....sad, sorry, cowardly, criminals who have been told that doing this makes them important .... the real contemptible individuals are those that create and plan these atrocities .....and then watch the events unfold. They are the real psychopaths.

J


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> Enough is enough.


Absolutely spot on. Getting sick of candlelight vigils and buildings lit up like national flags and photos of victims wrapped in tinfoil. Enough is enough. You're right; and so is TM.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Enough is enough. You're right; and so is TM


Yes Calvine totally agree, but will she be doing anything about it, I hope so or do we have to wait till after the election to find out that as well.?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

DT said:


> Live as we do or don't bother coming.


Or at least *accept and respect* the culture/lifestyle of the host country while keeping your own...committing acts of terrorism isn't exactly going to convince your hosts to respect you.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

What worries me are these poeple being pulled in . To what degree these are connected I'm not sure but are these gonna be added to the over swelling numbers already on the watch list . How the hell are we gonna watch all these poeple .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Absolutely spot on. Getting sick of candlelight vigils and buildings lit up like national flags and photos of victims wrapped in tinfoil. Enough is enough. You're right; and so is TM.


This!

_Theresa May has had seven years in charge of UK anti-terrorism policy. _
_But now, apparently, 'enough is enough'_.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Or at least *accept and respect* the culture/lifestyle of the host country while keeping your own...committing acts of terrorism isn't exactly going to convince your hosts to respect you.


Most of them do. If we are going to have a zero tolerance approach to extremism. Maybe we should start by refusing to support it?.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Franlow said:


> As for taking off shoes??? I have no idea the point you are trying to make.


I think it was a specific example to illustrate a more general point, and a rather good point at that imo.

It talks to the oft heard argument (which I am not suggesting you have made) that if 'we' go over 'there' 'we' face all kinds of restrictions on 'our' behaviour, be that dress code, alchohol or whatever whereas if 'they' come over 'here' 'they' do whatever 'they' want and somehow, by failing to conform (we call it integrate), disrespect 'our' culture or way of life.

Of course that argument is logically flawed because should a Muslim arrive in the U.K. from another country and be devoutly observant s/he is actually faithfully respecting British values and culture precisely because tolerance is the very essence of 'Britishness'. So when someone (again, I don't mean you) expects Muslims or any other group to conform to our pubs-football-fish&chips Britishness it is actually they who disrespect our values.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Plz dont shoot the messenger
But what baffled me is when an incident occurs the media fall over them selves to state there Swedish or German when clearley there not . When a Somalie guy caused havoc he was called Swedish . In my opinion if you plant a daffodile bulb on a bowl of roses it doesn't make it a rosé no matter how good your intensional are im just puzzled


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> _But now, apparently, 'enough is enough'_.


Better late than never. It's been allowed to escalate for years (at least since 9/11).


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Most of them do.


As is believe I said in my post 214.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Maybe we should start by refusing to support it?.


What...do you support it? I certainly don't; nor do I know anyone who does.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Creativecat said:


> Plz dont shoot the messenger
> But what baffled me is when an incident occurs the media fall over them selves to state there Swedish or German when clearley there not . When a Somalie guy caused havoc he was called Swedish . In my opinion if you plant a daffodile bulb on a bowl of roses it doesn't make it a rosé no matter how good your intensional are im just puzzled


 If he's from Somalia/Iraq/wherever with a British passport, he's British. There is in theory no difference between a person born in Somalia and one born here if they are British passport holders. We do not refer to one as British and the other (the Somali) as a British Passport Holder. If an Iranian has a German passport, he is a German, no matter how he behaves or how many people he may have killed as a terrorist.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Calvine said:


> If he's from Somalia/Iraq/wherever with a British passport, he's British. There is in theory no difference between a person born in Somalia and one born here if they are British passport holders. We do not refer to one as British and the other (the Somali) as a British Passport Holder. If an Iranian has a German passport, he is a German, no matter how he behaves or how many people he may have killed as a terrorist.


In reality he isn't tho is he to be fair .
If I got Sudanese citizenship I don't think Sudanese poeple would class me as one of there's in all honesty
I guess it's being pc. Again in whats being fed to us


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Better late than never. It's been allowed to escalate for years (at least since 9/11).


The police federation have been saying 'enough is enough' since Theresa May was Home Secretary. The police federation begged her not to cut them as it would put us at risk of terrorists. She accused them of 'crying wolf'....












Calvine said:


> What...do you support it? I certainly don't; nor do I know anyone who does.


Our government supports extremists.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Creativecat said:


> If I got Sudanese citizenship I don't think Sudanese poeple would class me as one of there's in all honesty


Made me laugh...thanks for that! No, I can't imagine what they would class you as in Sudan. You're not thinking of leaving, are you?:Cat


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Our government supports extremists.


We are talking about young men and boys being radicalised, using knives and vans to kill people; get a grip do.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> We are talking about young men and boys being radicalised, using knives and vans to kill people; get a grip do.


What is radicalising them?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> since Theresa May was Home Secretary


...and long before is when it started.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> What is radicalising them?


Why don't you tell us, wise one?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

What are your thoughts on this then @Calvine


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> What are your thoughts on this then @Calvine


 Please tag someone else; I am tired of being involved in your games and I can't even be bothered to look at it.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Why don't you tell us, wise one?


Courtesy of Mark Curtis via John Pilger.

_"UK may in effect be part of broad terrorist network which UK public now confronts.
Urgent enquiry Cameron/May role" _http://markcurtis.info/2017/06/03/the-manchester-bombing-as-blowback-the-latest-evidence/


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Please tag someone else; I am tired of being involved in your games and I can't even be bothered to look at it.


........................................................................................................................................................................................................


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

@noushka05: you are taking over this thread now as you do with many.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> @noushka05: you are taking over this thread now as you do with many.


Forum police alert


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Former adviser to David Cameron, Steve Hilton: May should resign

*steve hilton*‏@*SteveHiltonx* 4h4 hours ago

_Theresa May responsible for security failures of London Bridge, Manchester, Westminster Bridge.
Should be resigning not seeking re-election_


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

We ARE at war, writes RICHARD LITTLEJOHN | Daily Mail Online

IMO for what it's worth, all though very disturbing well worth a read.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2017)

Creativecat said:


> In reality he isn't tho is he to be fair .
> If I got Sudanese citizenship I don't think Sudanese poeple would class me as one of there's in all honesty
> I guess it's being pc. Again in whats being fed to us


Are you saying Mo Farah isn't British?? Oh crap, do we have to give his medals back then????


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Quite an interesting short video from Good Morning Britain - its from after the Manchester attack - please watch its not very long






This guy used to be an extremist so his viewpoint and that of the female journalist are very interesting. He was on again this morning but I can't find a clip yet (would be on ITV player if anyone is interested). What they both seem to be blaming is the Saudi "Wahabi" branch of Islam which is very hard/extreme in its teachings. He explained how the Saudis are funding the opening of mosques in this country who practice this version of Islam. As the journalist says we need to cut this out at the source - even if it means losing trade with Saudi. Will our government stand up against this and risk losing trade with the Saudis - I doubt it 

_Wahabi _Islam is not a separate denomination but a strain of teaching that arose in the 18th century in Saudi Arabia. (from Sunni Islam) Wahabiism would probably have remained insignificant, and considered heretical by the mainstream, but for twentieth century oil wealth. Wahabiism adopts a much more hard-line interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith, and indeed added requirements such as the covering of women and prohibition on them driving cars. The excesses of the Taliban in Afghanistan originated in Wahabiism, as does the al Quaeda terror campaign against the western world. Wahabi teaching might be found in the mosques of both Shia and Sunni Islam.

Wahabi Islam has a hierarchy of Imams and other clerics and an organisation based in Saudi Arabia. This powerbase is strongly associated with the Saudi royal family. The term Salafi or salafist is also used.

Although Wahabi Islam is a smaller and later strain of Islam, it has disproportionate influence because of its base in Saudi Arabia which gives it control of vast oil wealth and of Islam's holy sites. Saudi Wahabiism is exported around the Islamic world by sponsorship of schools, colleges, universities and mosques through which their doctrines are advanced.

The hostility and anti-western activity that you encounter will probably be from Wahabi Muslims. It can be helpful to check where the funding for new mosques and other initiatives comes from. If it comes from Saudi Arabia, hard line wahabi teaching is likely to follow shortly!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Calvine said:


> @noushka05: you are taking over this thread now as you do with many.


Really? Have you counted the number of posts by each contributor?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Really? Have you counted the number of posts by each contributor?


No not yet waiting for someone to do it for me xxx


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have you counted the number of posts by each contributor?


I am too busy for that. And I don't spend hours on top of posting trawling thro' old news to dig out photos and quotes . So many threads start to look like comics there are so many photos and pictures, tables and God knows what else. It must take hours.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I really think we should toughen up, S*d their human rights, they gave them up as soon as they started to think and plan attacks, once they are know the security forces as a possible threat they should be taken off our streets and if they aren't British born deported with their families, no if or buts.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Really? Have you counted the number of posts by each contributor


And by ''taking over'' I mean the fact of the 'I am right and you are wrong and here are millions of pictures, photos, lists, tables and quotes from people you have likely never heard of so I must be right'. Not just numbers of single sentence quotes. Same with the election thread...same with the referendum thread.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> I really think we should toughen up, S*d their human rights, they gave them up as soon as they started to think and plan attacks, once they are know the security forces as a possible threat they should be taken off our streets and if they aren't British born deported with their families, no if or buts.


And if they are british born strap a suicide vest on them and press the button!
Seriously, we could test new drugs on them rather then animals


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

And before anyone says I'm not nice, good observation skills you have there! I make no apologies for saying Im a firm believer in bolting the stable door prior to the horse bolting.
Or as you rottie would say prevention prior to cure.
About time some realised there is no cure for evil


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> I really think we should toughen up, S*d their human rights, they gave them up as soon as they started to think and plan attacks, once they are know the security forces as a possible threat they should be taken off our streets


Have you read this HP. ?
Former British Commander: "We Need To Be Sweeping These People Off Our Streets" - LBC


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> I am too busy for that. And I don't spend hours on top of posting trawling thro' old news to dig out photos and quotes . So many threads start to look like comics there are so many photos and pictures, table and God knows what else. It must take hours.


You don't need to spend hours trawling if you know where to look .

Its not old news. This is from yesterday - but if you're not bothered about getting informed that's your prerogative.
This is the gist of it though >>
*
The Police have had enough when they accuse Theresa May of outright lies*.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Calvine said:


> I am too busy for that. And I don't spend hours on top of posting trawling thro' old news to dig out photos and quotes . So many threads start to look like comics there are so many photos and pictures, table and God knows what else. It must take hours.





Calvine said:


> And by ''taking over'' I mean the fact of 'I am right and you are wrong and here are millions of pictures, photos, lists, tables and quotes from people you have likely never heard of so I must be right'. Not just numbers of single sentence quotes. Same with the election thread...same with the referendum thread.


We've all got different interests and passions though, if politics is something that interests you then you probably have a lot of saved information you can produce quickly and easily to back up your point of view. I know it can get a bit much or overpowering at times but we are a few days away from an election so its bound to be like that. You can of course put anyone on ignore if you don't appreciate their posts.



DT said:


> And if they are british born strap a suicide vest on them and press the button!
> Seriously, we could test new drugs on them rather then animals


 Hatred fuels hatred DT.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> put anyone on ignore if you don't appreciate their posts


I know that of course (who doesn't!) and I have already done that. There is a group of them who hardly ever seem to appear on threads concerning pets, oddly enough, as they are too busy telling everyone what to think, whom to support and whom to despise.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Calvine said:


> I know that (of course...who doesn't!) and I have done that. There is a group of them who hardly seem to appear on threads concerning pets, oddly enough.


no! I cant do that:Bawling
I can do anything at all, but I cant do that x


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> We've all got different interests and passions though, if politics is something that interests you then you probably have a lot of saved information you can produce quickly and easily to back up your point of view. I know it can get a bit much or overpowering at times but we are a few days away from an election so its bound to be like that. You can of course put anyone on ignore if you don't appreciate their posts.
> 
> Hatred fuels hatred DT.


Duh! And here I was playing nicely


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> What they both seem to be blaming is the Saudi "Wahabi" branch of Islam which is very hard/extreme in its teachings


I'm glad this has been brought up as I've not known how to explain it. Raving against all Islam for these attacks is like raving against all Christianity if you don't agree with the actions of one church.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Honeys mum said:


> Have you read this HP. ?
> Former British Commander: "We Need To Be Sweeping These People Off Our Streets" - LBC


I agree with every word he said


noushka05 said:


> *
> The Police have had enough when they accuse Theresa May of outright lies*.


Always thought she was a lairer


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Has anyone heard anything about this.?
Jeremy Corbyn calls on Theresa May to resign over police cuts after London terror attack


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

*Archbishop warns against 'religious illiteracy'*
Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has said there is "a lack of religious literacy" among some people who are tackling the terrorist threat.

"They often don't understand the very basic doctrines of the faith they're dealing with," he told the Today programme - and cannot put themselves "in the shoes of religious believers".

Speaking about his own religion, Christianity, he says there has been "enormous heroism and beauty" but there has also been "a dark side" in the past.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and...stin-welby-warns-against-religious-illiteracy


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Franlow said:


> Are you saying Mo Farah isn't British?? Oh crap, do we have to give his medals back then????


Born here yes great ambassador for britain sure lovely guy yes. British born yes . Hand back medals no .
what im trying to say poeple that love this country like mo clearley does are loved back and respected
But these evil fkrs that just want to destroy us clearley have no intention to want to integrate or love this county and don't want to be labelled in these country as German or Swedish or British so why do we give credit or acknowledgement to that fact that's what baffles me


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> *Archbishop warns against 'religious illiteracy'*
> Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has said there is "a lack of religious literacy" among some people who are tackling the terrorist threat.
> 
> "They often don't understand the very basic doctrines of the faith they're dealing with," he told the Today programme - and cannot put themselves "in the shoes of religious believers".
> ...


Oh! So it is a faith then? Really!
You couldnt make it up could you


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> Has anyone heard anything about this.?
> Jeremy Corbyn calls on Theresa May to resign over police cuts after London terror attack


Let democracy take place and let the voters decide imo.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Honeys mum said:


> Has anyone heard anything about this.?
> Jeremy Corbyn calls on Theresa May to resign over police cuts after London terror attack


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DT said:


> Oh! So it is a faith then? Really!
> You couldnt make it up could you


Its their faith yes- a very few hard line/radical people who do believe their way is the only way and that the rest of the Muslim world and the rest of us are wrong and should be wiped out. The problem is some people have a tendency to throw all Muslims in with those few and spread hatred about all Muslims.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its their faith yes- a very few hard line/radical people who do believe their way is the only way and that the rest of the Muslim world and the rest of us are wrong and should be wiped out. The problem is some people have a tendency to throw all Muslims in with those few and spread hatred about all Muslims.


Yep! But let me remind,you those numbers are growing!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its their faith yes- a very few hard line/radical people who do believe their way is the only way and that the rest of the Muslim world and the rest of us are wrong and should be wiped out. The problem is some people have a tendency to throw all Muslims in with those few and spread hatred about all Muslims.


And it must be an extremely odd faith if it is open to misinterpretation in such a manner! And taking into account the increased amount of followers there are worldwide I think we need some clarification as to whether they are terrorists or in fact religious nutters!


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Honeys mum said:


> Has anyone heard anything about this.?
> Jeremy Corbyn calls on Theresa May to resign over police cuts after London terror attack





stuaz said:


> Let democracy take place and let the voters decide imo.


I don't agree with it, I just wondered if any one knew wether it's true or not.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2017)

I seriously think that we are getting too close to peoples Party Politics here. Back biting, even if done in a jokey manner is still divisive.
The Mo Farah comment was a joke meant to lighten the atmosphere.
Counting the amount of posts people have made - seriously? One assumes we are all grown ups who can argue a cause without offending / upsetting others. Perhaps it is time to agree to disagree & accept.
1) We are all horrified by the actions of these 3 men
2) We understand that these men are not representative of the Muslim community
3) We all want something done to stop this happening
4) We respect other peoples opinions & understand that whilst we all have different views on many different things, different to ours, does not automatically mean wrong.
5) We abhor racism wherever it is found 
6) We are proud as heck of all the emergency service personnel & members of the public from all 3 recent attacks.
7) We wish all those injured a speedy recovery & send the families of the bereaved our prayers & thoughts.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I do find it an interesting (in a behaviour geek kind of way) that many people will brush over or forget the atrocities that extremist Christians commit yet as soon as it is an extremist Muslim there is a complete outrage at the whole Muslim faith 

I wonder how many people have actually been to a Mosque or actually talked to the many, many peaceful Muslim followers to find out what it is all about...

There are evil people in the world that do evil things, in ALL walks of life.
The people to blame are the ones that fund terrorism...Not the countless law abiding citizens that just happen to read a different book to others.

This thread is sad-I'm out!


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> I don't agree with it, I just wondered if any one knew wether it's true or not.


He was asked in an interview if he would back the calls for May to resign ( I don`t know who has been calling for her to resign) he said he would back those that wanted her to resign, asked if he was calling on her to resign he said the upcoming GE was the best way to deal with it.

I`ve attempted to link the interview but I am really not the best at links so may not work!
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

The important thing to remember is most Muslims are like us, they just want peace. What we mustn't do is allow the terrorists and hate mongers, like Katie Hopkins, divide us. Or they've won.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Franlow said:


> 1) We are all horrified by the actions of these 3 men
> 2) We understand that these men are not representative of the Muslim community
> 3) We all want something done to stop this happening
> 4) We respect other peoples opinions & understand that whilst we all have different views on many different things, different to ours, does not automatically mean wrong.
> ...


Can't disagree with any of that.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> I do find it an interesting (in a behaviour geek kind of way) that many people will brush over or forget the atrocities that extremist Christians commit yet as soon as it is an extremist Muslim there is a complete outrage at the whole Muslim faith
> 
> I wonder how many people have actually been to a Mosque or actually talked to the many, many peaceful Muslim followers to find out what it is all about...
> 
> ...


Hang on with all due respect who is saying outrage at the whole Muslim faith I'm certainly not. My beef is with these murderers that are harming all relations with the widely peaceful Muslim community . As for the Christian atrocities are we talking abt in the crusades hundreds of years ago as I haven't seen anything in the last few yrs in the news channels of Christians blowing up innocent victims . Mowing down people on a nite out or for that matter parking planes into buildings 
A atleast I don't think I have but maybe I'm wrong


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

DT said:


> And it must be an extremely odd faith if it is open to misinterpretation in such a manner! And taking into account the increased amount of followers there are worldwide I think we need some clarification as to whether they are terrorists or in fact religious nutters!


I think it is more a case of the passage of time since the holy scriptures of that faith were written. Language of that time reflects the mores of that time and also the nature of developing, especially crusading, religions and there's danger in taking extreme views of literal passages; same with most old religious texts I would imagine.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Everyone should take a moment to watch this.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its their faith yes- a very few hard line/radical people who do believe their way is the only way and that the rest of the Muslim world and the rest of us are wrong and should be wiped out. The problem is some people have a tendency to throw all Muslims in with those few and spread hatred about all Muslims.


Sadly that is true though I wouldn't like to estimate on numbers. 
From an interview this morning on TV news There is a dangerous Muslim sect Wahhabism that seems to be radicalising young people in this country , it is funded from abroad and supports some Mosques here , it can be difficult to recognise which Mosques are run by them and difficult to close them down . 

I found this an interesting read about the history of it . 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Creativecat said:


> Hang on with all due respect who is saying outrage at the whole Muslim faith I'm certainly not. My beef is with these murderers that are harming all relations with the widely peaceful Muslim community . As for the Christian atrocities are we talking abt in the crusades hundreds of years ago as I haven't seen anything in the last few yrs in the news channels of Christians blowing up innocent victims . Mowing down people on a nite out or for that matter parking planes into buildings
> A atleast I don't think I have but maybe I'm wrong


Many people have outrage at the Muslim community as a whole, I didn't say anyone in particular. 
I wasn't just talking about the crusades...2012 is not hundreds of years ago

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/03/the_10_worst_examples_of_christian_or_far_right_terrorism_partner/
https://thinkprogress.org/the-christian-terrorist-movement-no-one-wants-to-talk-about-33af61cdc94a

I posted the top link a few pages back 
Anyway, I said I was out so back under my rock I go


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Quite an interesting short video from Good Morning Britain - its from after the Manchester attack - please watch its not very long
> 
> 
> 
> ...





kimthecat said:


> Sadly that is true though I wouldn't like to estimate on numbers.
> From an interview this morning on TV news There is a dangerous Muslim sect Wahhabism that seems to be radicalising young people in this country , it is funded from abroad and supports some Mosques here , it can be difficult to recognise which Mosques are run by them and difficult to close them down .
> 
> I found this an interesting read about the history of it .
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html


Yes I posted a link with a video a few pages back (see link above) where Wahabi is explained along with how its being funded by the Saudis who have funded about 100 mosques who practice this extreme version of Islam. The Muslim journalist explains how we need to cut this off at its source rather than try to do something further down the line when its too late.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> The important thing to remember is most Muslims are like us, they just want peace. What we mustn't do is allow the terrorists and hate mongers, like Katie Hopkins, divide us. Or they've won.


Tbh noush, I have been reading some lovely messages from the Muslim community, really heartfelt, and many many are devastated and as furious as many of us are. Xxx


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I posted a link with a video a few pages back (see link above) where Wahabi is explained along with how its being funded by the Saudis who have funded about 100 mosques who practice this extreme version of Islam. The Muslim journalist explains how we need to cut this off at its source rather than try to do something further down the line when its too late.


I posted something like that too, if was a young Muslim on question time said pretty much the same.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I posted a link with a video a few pages back (see link above) where Wahabi is explained along with how its being funded by the Saudis who have funded about 100 mosques who practice this extreme version of Islam. The Muslim journalist explains how we need to cut this off at its source rather than try to do something further down the line when its too late.


 Sorry i missed that. i cant keep up with all the posts . I saw the same TV interview as you did but you explained it better .


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> talked to the many, many peaceful Muslim followers to find out what it is all about...


I doubt if the peaceful muslims know what it's all about (I take it by 'it' you mean the terrorism).


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

DT said:


> Tbh noush, I have been reading some lovely messages from the Muslim community, really heartfelt, and many many are devastated and as furious as many of us are. Xxx


So have I Sue xx


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I saw 3 Muslim religious community gentleman on bbc news and they was genuinely apologetic and said what needs to be done . I felt sad they have to be wheeled out to not justify themselves but give some understanding where they stood over these attacks . I genuinely feel there sadness and want this madness to end also . Such a sad situation where all at in madness :0(


----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its their faith yes- a very few hard line/radical people who do believe their way is the only way and that the rest of the Muslim world and the rest of us are wrong and should be wiped out. The problem is some people have a tendency to throw all Muslims in with those few and spread hatred about all Muslims.


Exactly RPH!


----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Everyone should take a moment to watch this.


Lordy, lordy, I do miss Tony Benn...


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

3dogs2cats said:


> He was asked in an interview if he would back the calls for May to resign ( I don`t know who has been calling for her to resign)


Theresa May Should Resign Over London Bridge Attack, Says Steve Hilton | HuffPost UK


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Honeys mum said:


> Theresa May Should Resign Over London Bridge Attack, Says Steve Hilton | HuffPost UK


Absolutely, eight minutes to respond is far to long and just shows how under resourced the Metropolitan police are 

So that's Mr Cameron's ex advisor is it. Would he be one of those that advised him it would be a good career move to hold a EU referendum? Or did he advise him to runaway and hide when it went queer? Wonder what his qualifications are (sure @noushka05 will let me know).


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well now the police are back on the streets and not filling in forms constantly, you don't need so many. Just look at the reports on police numbers for 2008, it says they spent a third of their time pushing paper. Also, look at the crime rates. Yes I know that cyber crime isn't included and that has increased, but I don't think it was included at any other time either


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> Wonder what his qualifications are (sure @noushka05 will let me know).


You can bet your life on that. Prepare yourself for 20 quotes and 30 pictures though.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Wonder what his qualifications are


He lives in America and is an activist

He's probably trying to ingratiate himself with Cobyn to further his career


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> He lives in America and is an activist


Really rona? Why am I not one bit surprised?


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Honeys mum said:


> Theresa May Should Resign Over London Bridge Attack, Says Steve Hilton | HuffPost UK


Of course she should - when it happens in London.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Dr Pepper said:


> So that's Mr Cameron's ex advisor is it. Would he be one of those that advised him it would be a good career move to hold a EU referendum? Or did he advise him to runaway and hide when it went queer? Wonder what his qualifications are (sure @noushka05 will let me know).


Ive never heard of him, so was curious to know myself.
Steve Hilton - Wikipedia


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> I do find it an interesting (in a behaviour geek kind of way) that many people will brush over or forget the atrocities that extremist Christians commit yet as soon as it is an extremist Muslim there is a complete outrage at the whole Muslim faith


I can only speak for the atrocities that happened in this country and I can assure you that many people did speak out against the IRA and didnt brush over or forgot the bombings , the Church itself also spoke out and condemned them . Many Irish people here also were abused simple because they were Irish .

ETA a lot of ordinary Irish people who did speak out against them ended up dead , they were murdered by the IRA.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Vigil in London:









































Sadiq Khan opens the vigil for London Bridge attack victims by telling extremists: "You will not win"

































Nationwide two minutes silence to be held tomorrow at 11am.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

At this event why wasnt Teresa may there instead we had Diane abacus 
Gracing us with her presence


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> At this event why wasnt Teresa may there instead we had Diane abacus
> Gracing us with her presence


Perhaps the same reason Jeremy Corbyn did not attend, they are campaigning for the General Election.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Amber Rudd is there , her father died last Monday , . Must have been difficult for her .


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

This is my personal view that Labours promise to put 10,000 new police officers on the street won't actually affect anything.

1) Armed police would not have responded any quicker. 8 minutes from the first 999 call in the City of London was very impressive by any standards.
2) Police had already intervened with trounchens and so did members of the public trowing what they could at the terrorists.
3) There was no way these guys where going to be taken alive.
4) You have to remember they had to assemble the armed police from many different boroughs and London is a big city so it takes time to respond to calls like this. The response time by armed officers was remarkable and they neutralised the suspects in 8 minutes from the first 999 call on the opposite side of the Thames/London Bridge.

I think that 10,000 extra new police officers across the UK that Labour are promising would not have made any difference.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

One of these killers is on a channel 4 documentrty the jihadis next door holding up an ises flag In a public park pledging alligence to this group wtf. This is getting more disturbing as the day goes on


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> This is my personal view that Labours promise to put 10,000 new police officers on the street won't actually affect anything.
> 
> 1) Armed police would not have responded any quicker. 8 minutes from the first 999 call in the City of London was very impressive by any standards.
> 2) Police had already intervened with trounchens and so did members of the public trowing what they could at the terrorists.
> ...


The 8 minutes time frame from when this atrocities started to when they got neautralized is very impressive i couldn't even get a pizza delivered that quick . But what worries me what if this would of happened in a sleepy cafe in peace haven or dimchurch I dont think they would scramble a fire arms unit in less than 45 minutes . That's what frightens me.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> The 8 minutes time frame from when this atrocities started to when they got neautraluzed is very impressing I couldn't even get a pizza delivered that quick . But what worries me what if this would of happened in a sleepy cafe in peace haven or dimchurch I do t think they would scramble a fire arms unit in less than 45 minutes . That's what frightens me.


It wouldn't make any difference on response times having 10,000 new police officers across the UK, Labour didn't say firearms officers just police officers.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> It wouldn't make any difference on response times having 10,000 new police officers across the UK, Labour didn't say firearms officers just police officers.


 I
agree . Some are saying they want to arm alot more police . As said not all would be suitable and personally I'd like them to be armed to a degree but not sure if the implications were being taken down a rocky path 
To be fair . These are worrying times as iv said a few times but would love to know what you think SC .


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> 8 minutes from the first 999 call in the City of London was very impressive by any standards.


I believe the eight minutes was _the whole thing_ too, from the call to the killers being shot dead. To be honest I thought that was amazing. God only knows what the total number of victims would have been had that time been double?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> I
> agree . Some are saying they want to arm alot more police . As said not all would be suitable and personally I'd like them to be armed to a degree but not sure if the implications were being taken down a rocky path
> To be fair . These are worrying times as iv said a few times but would love to know what you think SC .


There are calls from different people to arm the police, not all police officers want to be armed. Arming them with tasers wouldn't have stopped this incident or say someone firing a gun at crowds of people as the officer could get shot in the process. We have a magnificent armed police service and unarmed police service. But for the sake of everyone I think we might have to accept all officers being armed to protect us. We'll have to see what this security review comes up with after the elections.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh god I hope not. It will be like America.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Oh god I hope not. It will be like America.


Not necessarily. Why do people always compare arming police in the UK with America? Police are armed in other European Countries, Australia, Turkey etc. The police do have strick protocols when using firearms in the UK and other European Countries.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And innocent people get shot in those countries too. Armed police is not good. Look how many times the few armed police we have have messed up.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> And innocent people get shot in those countries too. Armed police is not good. Look how many times the few armed police we have have messed up.


When I lived in the Netherlands no one innocent got shot or killed from police misuse of fire arms.

UK police have not messed up using fire arms for a long time.

Terrorists are using new methods and the police and security services need to adapt like it or not.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> And innocent people get shot in those countries too. Armed police is not good. Look how many times the few armed police we have have messed up.


Whereas nobody innocent ever gets killed in this country of course.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> UK police have not messed up using fire arms for a long time.


Good. Cos the last time they did caused a riot, mass property damage and a load of shoplifting.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Important is to actually introduce basic civil defence.
I had it in school.
What to do during attack. It is idiotic to be a bystander, jeopardize police action and expose yourself to danger.
First aid was also taught and came useful , even in case of ordinary accidents.

Lots of people shown right instincts barricading doors etc...

I wish public was prepared how to act in such circumstances.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> When I lived in the Netherlands no one innocent got shot or killed from police misuse of fire arms.
> 
> UK police have not messed up using fire arms for a long time.
> 
> Terrorists are using new methods and the police and security services need to adapt like it or not.


I couldn't agree more . The police have to adapt to an ever changing 
Demographic . It's sad but in a perfect world we would love all our police like the Dixon of dock green type character giving the odd clip round the ear but i don't think 
A whistle and harsh words would cut the mustard . Not now


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> This is my personal view that Labours promise to put 10,000 new police officers on the street won't actually affect anything.
> 
> 1) Armed police would not have responded any quicker. 8 minutes from the first 999 call in the City of London was very impressive by any standards.
> 2) Police had already intervened with trounchens and so did members of the public trowing what they could at the terrorists.
> ...


Maybe you should hear what the actual police are saying? Shouldn't we be supporting them not an incompetent ex Home Secretary & hopeless PM?

These are damning! She should resign.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Ciaran Jenkins*‏Verified [email protected]*C4Ciaran* 15h15 hours ago

Spot our closest ally..







More than ever at Britain's side








Resolutely at Britain's side







We stand together







London Mayor pathetic


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rona said:


> He lives in America and is an activist
> 
> He's probably trying to ingratiate himself with Cobyn to further his career


You're just making stuff up & people are 'liking' it First blaming the EU for May slashing police numbers now this


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> Maybe you should hear what the actual police are saying? Shouldn't we be supporting them not an incompetent ex Home Secretary & hopeless PM?
> 
> These are damning! She should resign.


The more I hear what she is said and wants to do, is really worrying.

I think she is the most dangerous person at the moment to our security.

How any more police and armed forces and we going to loose, when we need them more than ever.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Good. Cos the last time they did caused a riot, mass property damage and a load of shoplifting.


I know what incident you are talking about but the facts around the case where this:
1) No police officer was charged for misuse of fire arms.
2) A gun was found near the assailants body and someone has been charged with supplying the assailant with the gun in question.
3) The police took necessary action to neutralise him before he could harm anyone.
4) Yes it sparked a riot in Tottenham. Prison sentences totalling more than 1,800 years have been handed out to rioters following the disorder.
5) The fact is the guy had a gun.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14842416

Protocols have changed and lessons learnt with the use of police fire arms.

-----------
I am going to give you a scenario here.

In your local town three gun men with knives are running riot through the street killing people, local officers respond with battons but are shot or stabbed along with locals. It takes say 45 minutes for armed response to arrive, at this stage the terrorists have fled the town and gone to ground.

Wouldn't it have been more effective to have the local officers armed with side arms not machine guns so they could have stood a chance against them and possibly neutralise them?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> The more I hear what she is said and wants to do, is really worrying.
> 
> I think she is the most dangerous person at the moment to our security.
> 
> How any more police and armed forces and we going to loose, when we need them more than ever.


Even the police are saying it. Her cuts are putting us all at risk. And its not just the police & armed forces - look at the fire service too, they have also been slashed to the bone. (& by the way apparently the tories have cut our armed forces back to their smallest size since Napoleonic time & they intend to cut them back even further)


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> Even the police are saying it. Her cuts are putting us all at risk. And its not just the police & armed forces - look at the fire service too, they have also been slashed to the bone. (& by the way apparently the tories have cut our armed forces back to their smallest size since Napoleonic time & they intend to cut them back even further)


They are going round the country with a motor mower cutting everything as short as they can.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> They are going round the country with a motor mower cutting everything as short as they can.


And now everything is falling apart.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

>>> Theresa May says the UK hasn't done enough to prevent terrorism. That was literally her job as Home Secretary.


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> >>> Theresa May says the UK hasn't done enough to prevent terrorism. That was literally her job as Home Secretary.


And who do you want to do that job instead? Diane Abbott?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MilleD said:


> And who do you want to do that job instead? Diane Abbott?


Definitely, because unlike our arrogant PM , she would listen. Our public services, our NHS are on the verge of collapse & the tories are going to make even more cuts.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Everyone needs to read this damning article by the much respected John Pilger evidencing the links between terror attacks in the UK and our past and current foreign policy - http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/05/...tian-alliance-with-extreme-islam-john-pilger/
*
Manchester Atrocity Lifts Rock of British Foreign Policy, Reveals Faustian Alliance with Extreme Islam" ~ John Pilger*


----------



## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

I know the armed response time in London of 8 minutes was fantastic, but here's a question.

How long will it have taken the armed response team to get to a smaller city like Durham or Newcastle? Or anywhere in the North East for that matter?


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

These headlines say it all, questions need to be answered.
Newspaper headlines: 'How did London attacker slip through?' - BBC News


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't remember any attacks when she was home secretary.

Though there's less police officers, there's more money put in to areas like child exploitation. I know where I'd rather they spend the money.....sorry.........


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MilleD said:


> And who do you want to do that job instead? Diane Abbott?


Nightmare scenario. Can just imagine her if there was an attack "they are being so unfair to *me*, *I've* had a hard life,* I'm* always being picked on, why don't they leave *me* alone, *I'm *going to give them a slap on the back so they like* me* and don't pick on *me *any more!


----------



## Odin_cat (Mar 14, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> Not necessarily. Why do people always compare arming police in the UK with America? Police are armed in other European Countries, Australia, Turkey etc. The police do have strick protocols when using firearms in the UK and other European Countries.


I agree with SWC!!

Here in Spain every police officer is armed, even the local police that make sure kids can cross the road safely. I have never heard of anyone being killed by police here. We aren't the US.

On the other hand, there is an argument that arming police makes more criminals use guns. It seems relevant that you are 3 times more likely to die in a firearms incident in Spain than the UK ( some probably in hunting tbf) despite the overall murder rate being lower.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rona said:


> I don't remember any attacks when she was home secretary.
> 
> Though there's less police officers, there's more money put in to areas like child exploitation. I know where I'd rather they spend the money.....sorry.........


She was warned her cuts put us at risk of a terrorist attack - there is ONLY one person to blame.
*
The Police Officer Who Told Theresa May What Cuts Would Lead To*


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Odin_cat said:


> I agree with SWC!!
> 
> Here in Spain every police officer is armed, even the local police that make sure kids can cross the road safely. I have never heard of anyone being killed by police here. We aren't the US.
> 
> On the other hand, there is an argument that arming police makes more criminals use guns. It seems relevant that you are 3 times more likely to die in a firearms incident in Spain than the UK ( some probably in hunting tbf) despite the overall murder rate being lower.


Guns are more of a problem on mainland Europe as they are easier to smuggle across the borders because they have free movement.


----------



## Odin_cat (Mar 14, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> Guns are more of a problem on mainland Europe as they are easier to smuggle across the borders because they have free movement.


True, still not a problem tbh, maybe more in the bigger cities. Here people still talk about an armed robbery that happened 5 years ago (Police shot culprit in the leg).


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

*72% Of Britons want the police armed.










The vast majority of Britons support routinely arming police officers in the UK, a Sky Data poll reveals.
*
Some 72% of the public say police officers should be routinely armed, while 20% think the police should not carry guns as a matter of routine.

Excluding those who answered "neither" or "don't know", 78% support arming police and 22% oppose.

The poll was conducted in the aftermath of terrorist attacks in Manchester and London.

Theresa May has come under pressure from Labour for presiding over cuts to numbers of armed police, while she in turn has criticised Jeremy Corbyn over his past opposition to a "shoot to kill" policy in the event of a terror attack.

Support for routinely arming police is consistent across every demographic, although Londoners are slightly less likely to support arming police than people in the rest of the country.

They remain overwhelmingly in favour, however, by 68% to 25% compared with 72% support and 20% opposition across the country as a whole.

A poll of Metropolitan Police officers in February found that 44% think there should be more specialist firearms officers in their force, while 26% said police should be routinely armed.

Only 12% said they would not carry a firearm on duty under any circumstances.

_*Sky Data interviewed a nationally representative sample of 1,581 Sky customers interviewed by SMS on 5 June, 2017. Data are weighted to the profile of the population.*_

_*For full Sky Data tables, please click here.
*
http://news.sky.com/story/amp/sky-p...rming-uk-police-after-terror-attacks-10905554_


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> *72% Of Britons want the police armed.
> 
> View attachment 313476
> 
> ...


While I like your links. I really can't see how this is representative of the UK population, as only 1581 people took part. That's less people than live in my little estate


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rona said:


> While I like your links. I really can't see how this is representative of the UK population, as only 1581 people took part. That's less people than lives in my little estate


I know 
Just saw it on sky's website and thought I'd share. 

They should make these polls more widely available to everyone to get a better picture of what people actually think, instead of targeting a select few.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Assistant police police commissioner mark rowley has stated that the more atrocities that are perpetrated they will know more abt the attackers and will know atleast 2 of the individuals will be on some sort if watch list . 
That's comforting to know I must say


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Those Sky surveys are nonsense! A YouGov poll would be better because more people do them across a more mixed demographic.


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I do think some polls are not a true representation . Like hair products or face cream . 85% of thoes polled agreed there more effective than the leading other brand . In small print it was 108 people questioned . Hardly a broad research study


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

rona said:


> While I like your links. I really can't see how this is representative of the UK population, as only *1581 people took part*. *That's less people than live in my little estate*


or 22 route master buses, we have that many go down our main road in less than a hour.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> Those Sky surveys are nonsense! A YouGov poll would be better because more people do them across a more mixed demographic.


I agree but have never found how to enter the YouGov polls as again they are for a select audience.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> *72% Of Britons want the police armed.
> 
> View attachment 313476
> 
> ...


:Hilarious

And I've just been reading the statistics of the most common way that people walk when they're drunk.

It's staggering.

Your meme hardly reflects the attitude of an entire nation, more the views of a few TV addicts who probably watch endless films featuring violent criminals.:Facepalm


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

This poll is says 71% of the public support routinely arming the police.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-police-forces-be-armed-under-all-circumstances


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> And I've just been reading the statistics of the most common way that people walk when they're drunk.
> 
> ...


But it wouldn't affect you or Mrs Zee or Goblin as you aren't over here in the UK. So it's ok to arm police in other European countries and not the UK. At least you are protected with routinely armed police.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

MilleD said:


> And who do you want to do that job instead? Diane Abbott?


I'd rather have Russ Abbott.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> This poll is says 71% of the public support routinely arming the police.
> 
> http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-police-forces-be-armed-under-all-circumstances


So.... they've asked everybody, have they? It doesn't say in that link how many people have answered the poll. Do you have any idea?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> But it wouldn't affect you or Mrs Zee or Goblin as you aren't over here.


So what?

My comment was the result of a mere observation.

Or are you trying to imply that we shouldn't be allowed to contribute to a 'public forum' because we no longer live in the country? :Yawn


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I have no problem with arming our police, I've been aboard to countries where their police are armed never worried me, they only made me feel safe.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> Or are you trying to imply that we shouldn't be allowed to contribute to a 'public forum' because we no longer live in the country? :Yawn


I didn't say that did I?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> I didn't say that did I?


I didn't say you did.

I asked, are you trying to imply?:Writing


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> I didn't say you did.
> 
> I asked, are you trying to imply?:Writing


Well at least you're safe with routinely armed police whilst we aren't.

No implications made here. I have lived abroad and felt alot safer with routinely armed police officers.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

When I say routinely armed police I don't mean armed with machine guns I am talking about this (this is a routinely armed Dutch police officer):


----------



## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Dr Pepper said:


> I'd rather have Russ Abbott.[/
> 
> 
> Dr Pepper said:
> ...


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

.


stockwellcat said:


> Well at least you're safe with routinely armed police whilst we aren't.
> 
> No implications made here. I have lived abroad and felt alot safer with routinely armed police officers.


Stop acting like such a petulant child. There simply aren't enough police officers in Finland, and that's a commonly known fact. Do your homework.

And of course you were implying;

To indicate a thing by suggestion, rather than specific or explicit reference.:Snaphappy


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> .
> 
> Stop acting like such a petulant child. There simply aren't enough police officers in Finland, and that's a commonly known fact. Do your homework.
> 
> ...


:StopYour attitude stinks mate.:Facepalm



> Stop acting like such a petulant child.


You should take a look at your behaviour on some of your posts before calling people.

Back on topic...
I have lived abroad and seeing routinely armed police was the norm. Did it bother me? No. Did it make me feel safer? Yes.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> :StopYour attitude stinks mate.:Facepalm
> 
> You should take a look at your behaviour on some of your posts before calling people.


Perfect. Just perfect. The petulant child having to resort to a tantrum.....Again.:Hilarious

Odd that you should try to discredit me when I'm not the only one here who's wary of who you actually are. :Watching

However, if you think guns are the solution to making Britain a safer place. You're wrong. It will just make it more violent.

Take a look at your big brother pals across the pond. :Facepalm


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Not allowing police to have guns is outright ridiculous. Good luck being protected with pepper spray and water in times of terror.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Two minutes silence for the victims of the terror attacks in London.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> However, if you think guns are the solution to making Britain a safer place. You're wrong. It will just make it more violent.


 Fair enough. That's your opinion.

When you say look at our pals across the pond. Why? Why not look at our pals in the other European countries who carry guns?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Not allowing police to have guns is outright ridiculous. Good luck being protected with pepper spray and water in times of terror.


Hello you.

Did ya come back to keep us on our toes or just to tread on them for amusement?:Hilarious


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I still haven't had an answer to my question about the poll.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> Fair enough. That's your opinion.
> 
> When you say look at our pals across the pond. Why?


Because America is Britain's best buddy.

And she's tries to emulate her all she can.:Facepalm


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Fair enough. That's your opinion.
> 
> When you say look at our pals across the pond. Why? Why not look at our pals in the other European countries who carry guns?


Our cops in Australia have guns and we dont have an issue with them shooting willy nilly. Just because American cops are cowards and not trained properly doesnt mean all other nations should send their own officers out to control situations and protect people with just their fists practically. Idiotic simply idiotic. 
Im sure the same people against forces having guns are the same in favour of open borders. Well look where thats got you an influx of hatred from the inside out and no police able to handle it.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> So.... they've asked everybody, have they? It doesn't say in that link how many people have answered the poll. Do you have any idea?


I don't know who the poll was open to.

I haven't got a clue as to how many people answers the poll.

A YouGov poll wouldn't reflect public opinion as it is a targeted poll at a select amount of people as well as I cannot find how to enter them when they are running.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Waterlily said:


> Our cops in Australia have guns and we dont have an issue with them shooting willy nilly.


The police in Northern Ireland are routinely armed as well. Just in case people don't know Northern Ireland is part of the UK.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Hello you.
> 
> Did ya come back to keep us on our toes or just to tread on them for amusement?:Hilarious


 I came back to see if anyone here was affected by the terrorism as we have had out own attacks here too.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> The police in Northern Ireland are armed as well. Just in case people don't know Northern Ireland is part of the UK.


I know and the reason they were is no longer valid. Once you start going down that route there's no going back.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Perfect. Just perfect. The petulant child having to resort to a tantrum.....Again.:Hilarious
> 
> Odd that you should try to discredit me when I'm not the only one here who's wary of who you actually are. :Watching
> 
> ...


Do you really think that people with violent tendencies are going to stop that behavior just because the police dont have guns? At least if the protectors are armed they can shoot for the leg and control someone who is waving an illegal gun or a machete to stop more deaths. America is one country, dont be so ignorant.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> At least if the protectors are armed they can shoot for the leg


Never happens - not ever. The idea that someone trained in firearms will ever aim for anywhere but the largest possible area is movie make believe.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> I don't know who the poll was open to.
> 
> I haven't got a clue as to how many people answers the poll.


So you put up a poll that hardly anyone has voted on (as far as I can tell) to back up another poll that hardly anyone has voted on? You ought to be a politician, you spin just like they do.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> What a crock of shit.


Your training was obviously different. Were you also trained to discharge a single bullet?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Do you really think that people with violent tendencies are going to stop that behavior just because the police dont have guns? At least if the protectors are armed they can shoot for the leg and control someone who is waving an illegal gun or a machete to stop more deaths. America is one country, dont be so ignorant.


Britain has already suffered/experienced the wrongful fatal shootings of innocent people, and I won't say that by not increasing the numbers of armed police won't reduce those unfortunate instances, yet, would hazard a guess, that by increasing the numbers of armed police in turn might also increase the numbers of innocent fatalities amongst the public.

And I'm surprised you called me ignorant D..

No I'm not I'm disillusioned..


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

If someone was waving a machete or gun around people to terrorise or kill them, I dont care less if the cops want to shoot to kill them. Good riddance. If you feel safer with your officers having nothing to protect you with good onya. Open the borders, dont hurt the poor bad guy with intentions to kill society, disarm the cops, happy days.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

No bickering plz. 
Or il get the moderators to step in pmsl ;0)


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Creativecat said:


> No bickering plz.
> Or il get the moderators to step in pmsl ;0)


I realise this is a very emotive subject with feelings running high , but really ? Name calling? Insults ? If it continues the thread *will* be closed. Also please moderate language.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Just to bring a little perspective to an emotive subject: this article contains graphs showing how the amount of people dying in terrorist attacks has dropped severely since the 1980s. In Western Europe, we are actually safer than we have been since 1990.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many-people-killed-terrorist-attacks-uk/

The fact that terrorists now have to resort to cars and knives shows how much work our Security Services are already doing and how much harder it is to kill a lot of people at once.

Obviously the above won't make the victims or their families feel any better and I don't expect it to. But the rest of us can take a breath, get a grip of our knees and think clearly about what we want from our police and how much of our freedoms do we want to give to the Government.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> *72% Of Britons want the police armed.
> 
> View attachment 313476
> 
> ...


The most telling part of that poll is that only 26% of Metropolitan Police officers thought the police should be routinely armed. In other words 74% of them do *NOT *think they should be routinely armed. 44% want to see more specialist firearms officers in their force which is not the same thing as arming all officers. I would be more inclined to listen to the 74% of police officers than 72% of the general public. There must be reasons why they don't feel it would be appropriate.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I agree that there should be more specialist firearms officers. And that their training should be rigorous and their psychological testing should be on a sound scientific basis. But I absolutely do not agree that every police officer should have a gun. And it seems most police officers feel that way too.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Just imagine what would have happened on Saturday, had Corbyn and his comrades were in charge


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> The most telling part of that poll is that only 26% of Metropolitan Police officers thought the police should be routinely armed. In other words 74% of them do *NOT *think they should be routinely armed. 44% want to see more specialist firearms officers in their force which is not the same thing as arming all officers. I would be more inclined to listen to the 74% of police officers than 72% of the general public. There must be reasons why they don't feel it would be appropriate.


Just plain old common sense tells you that not all police are capable or even willing to carry guns.
Has anyone said they want all police carrying guns?


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I am not sure a poll about arming the police can be considered reliable when taken after a terrorist attack.

Previous polls taken in the past have always been a closer 50/50 split. 

I personally think that we should not react too much one way and routinely arm the police. Having unarmed police is fundamentally British. Although I believe we are one of only a handful of countries that do not routinely arm, however the British police are noticeably approachable for the general public, choosing to police by consent.

Having routinely armed police has not prevented terrorist attacks in mainland Europe for example. It stops no one from grabbing a truck and driving into a crowded market. A police officer in this country has more chance of encountering domestic abuse or a car accident, than he is a terrorist. Both do not require arming the police.

So rather than over react to deal with what are clearly horrible acts of violence, but instead get to the root of why they are happening. The root cause. Rather than change one of the things that makes us "British", which is essentially what the terrorists want to happen.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> Just plain old common sense tells you that not all police are capable or even willing to carry guns.
> Has anyone said they want all police carrying guns?


I think 74% of the officers questioned not wanting routine arming of officers is pretty significant. Yes the posts I've linked below are discussing all police officers carry guns, the majority of the general public in the survey @stockwellcat linked to wanted it but the police officers clearly did not.



stockwellcat said:


> There are calls from different people to arm the police, not all police officers want to be armed. Arming them with tasers wouldn't have stopped this incident or say someone firing a gun at crowds of people as the officer could get shot in the process. We have a magnificent armed police service and unarmed police service. *But for the* *sake of everyone I think we might have to accept all officers being armed to protect us. *We'll have to see what this security review comes up with after the elections.





stockwellcat said:


> I know what incident you are talking about but the facts around the case where this:
> 1) No police officer was charged for misuse of fire arms.
> 2) A gun was found near the assailants body and someone has been charged with supplying the assailant with the gun in question.
> 3) The police took necessary action to neutralise him before he could harm anyone.
> ...





stockwellcat said:


> *This poll is says 71% of the public support routinely arming the police.*
> 
> http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-police-forces-be-armed-under-all-circumstances





stockwellcat said:


> When I say routinely armed police I don't mean armed with machine guns I am talking about this (this is a routinely armed Dutch police officer):
> View attachment 313480


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Routine arming and arming all are very different scenarios


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The poll SC linked to had barely any votes on it. He extrapolated it out to all the British public when he doesn't know himself how many people voted on it. So I would treat it as a dodgy source and ignore it. The Sky poll is much the same.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> The poll SC linked to had barely any votes on it. He extrapolated it out to all the British public when he doesn't know himself how many people voted on it. So I would treat it as a dodgy source and ignore it. The Sky poll is much the same.


Why would you treat the sky data poll the same? Just curious as I admit the sky data poll is in a bit more depth than the other one.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Mainly because they've extrapolated the data from less than 2000 people. That's not a scientifically sound way of doing it. Especially when the data is all from one group of people - Sky customers. A proper survey would involve a lot more people over a much wider demographic.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

rona said:


> Just imagine what would have happened on Saturday, had Corbyn and his comrades were in charge


I suspect things would have happened exactly the same way, why? You don't tend to stop and call the PM for permission when responding to a major incident and lives are in danger.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jesthar said:


> I suspect things would have happened exactly the same way, why? You don't tend to stop and call the PM for permission when responding to a major incident and lives are in danger.


But Corbyn wouldn't allow them to shoot. Not sure he'd even allow guns


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> But Corbyn wouldn't allow them to shoot. Not sure he'd even allow guns


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...for-MI5-and-armed-police-to-be-disbanded.html

You may well be right, @ rona, maybe there would be no shooting. Remember this? Worrying, of course, if it is true. You will note I am not quoting the Sun as some PF members do!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

rona said:


> But Corbyn wouldn't allow them to shoot. Not sure he'd even allow guns


The thing is, there's a difference between not _liking_ a shoot to kill policy, and appreciating that sometimes it is needed.

In a similar vein, being a pacifist doesn't mean you are are opposed to taking action at all costs. It just mean it's not your first recourse. I'm a pacifist, I hate conflict of any kind, and as far as it depends on me I'll live peacefully with all. But under certain circumstances I would most definitely take direct action in reaction to those circumstances.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jesthar said:


> The thing is, there's a difference between not _liking_ a shoot to kill policy, and appreciating that sometimes it is needed.
> 
> In a similar vein, being a pacifist doesn't mean you are are opposed to taking action at all costs. It just mean it's not your first recourse. I'm a pacifist, I hate conflict of any kind, and as far as it depends on me I'll live peacefully with all. But under certain circumstances I would most definitely take direct action in reaction to those circumstances.


He has never directly said he would take any action even if we had a nuclear weapon heading our way. He just avoids the issue.
If he can't answer that one then I cannot imagine he'd be up for shootings on our streets, even if our own were being slaughter and even by police


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Calvine said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...for-MI5-and-armed-police-to-be-disbanded.html
> 
> You may well be right, @ rona, maybe there would be no shooting. Remember this? Worrying, of course, if it is true. You will note I am not quoting the Sun as some PF members do!


Diane Abbot has always wanted rid of MI5. One wonders what they are worried about being uncovered about them.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rona said:


> But Corbyn wouldn't allow them to shoot. Not sure he'd even allow guns


Yes he would....


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

rona said:


> He has never directly said he would take any action even if we had a nuclear weapon heading our way. He just avoids the issue.
> If he can't answer that one then I cannot imagine he'd be up for shootings on our streets, even if our own were being slaughter and even by police


Not _really _the same thing, though, is it? Plus openly talking about how you would defend your nation in various scenarios isn't exactly sensible, it tends to give the opposition ideas about how to get around your defenses.

And I can't really say I'd welcome a leader who was enthusiastic about shooting people in the streets, could you? I'd rather have one who advocated shooting only when deemed necessary by trained officers.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Oh my days 72 posts later and still waffling on abt the gun issue . Atleast post some thing in keeping more relevant to the poor people. In this unfortunate event . Altered text as mine did seem frivolous and childish on such an Important sad issue ;0(


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

More information about the people who were murdered , lets think of them 

perhaps the gun issue and safety could be discussed solely in the General Election thread


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Just seen this on FB (Canadian friend of a friend): 


"Several decades ago, I was in London. I intended to visit the HMV shop at Tottenham Court and then Forbidden Planet bookstore. But Oxford St. was closed off, the entire intersection.

I was about to ask the Constable what was going on, but a sweet little old English lady -- the one straight out of the Punch cartoons -- was ahead of me. She asked the bobby what was going on. He very politely said, "A bomb threat, ma'am." She said, "Oh, bother," as if it was nothing more important than a stubbed toe, and went on about her business.

The English are unflappable. These are the people that survived Hitler's blitz, the buzz-bombs and V2s.

To quote something I saw in another thread: "Terrorists? Hmpf. I drink tea in your direction."

That's the best way to deal with terrorists -- refuse to be terrorized.

Terrorists are political illiterates. They are committed to failure. Terrorism has rarely accomplished anything except to create a massive backlash. And usually, the terrorists end up dead and forgotten while the rest of the world just keeps on chugging along.

I drink tea in their direction."


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Did you see the guy in hospital who had tried to stop the attackers and was stabbed and injured? His friends buying him a running magazine with 'Learn to Run' on the front, I thought was brilliant.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Elles yeah i saw that . it made me laugh , I love our sense of humour in the face of adversity.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

All the Sikh temples in the area opened up to provide food and shelter for everyone caught up in the attacks.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/sikh-temples-open-their-doors-to-london-bridge-attack-victims-6683170/


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

RIP Xavier Thomas 

Detectives search for French national Xavier Thomas, who disappeared during the London Bridge terror attack, have recovered a body from the River Thames.
Specialist officers from the Marine Police Unit recovered the man's body at around 7.44pm on Tuesday near Limehouse. Formal identification has not yet taken place, but Mr Thomas' next of kin have been informed of the development.
Mr Thomas, 45, was caught up in the attack with his girlfriend Christine Delcros. The French couple, who were visiting London for the weekend, were walking south across London Bridge when the attack took place, according to police.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Just heard on the BBC news, total of eight dead now. A body has been found in the Thames.


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## Franksthename (May 31, 2017)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...lerics-islam-isis-burial-khuram-a7776861.html


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

A young woman who I knew back from home, has lost her boyfriend  She was away on a holiday last week and was supposed to come back yesterday. She was posting the whole Sunday and Monday on FB trying to find anyone who would have heard from her boyfriend - she could not get through to his phone, and his friends in London couldn't contact him or get into his home. They got separated on Saturday night... She finally got home yesterday (there wasn't an earlier flight) only to find out that her boyfriend was killed. I can't imagine the horror she must've been going through for 3 days being so far away and then coming home to such devastating news...


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

So sorry to hear about your friend @shadowmare I hope she has a good support network of friends and family to help her through this time.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh bless her, that must have been horrendous.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Franksthename said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...lerics-islam-isis-burial-khuram-a7776861.html


That's very good. They are risking a lot to do this.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Elles said:


> That's very good. They are risking a lot to do this.


That is so good to hear and it's a step in the right direction I'm pleased . But it's not gonna stop Internet radicalisation but if these vile beasts who cause this carnage spout there hate and show there true colours in the mosques it will be picked up and acted upon I just want the authority's to act and not dismiss as what seems the case already being uncovered


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Can't believe the media are showing the knives the terrorists used wtf! Really do we need to be shown this macabre spectacle . And now being told they wanted to hire a big truck to mowe us down more efficiently but there card was declined . It's terrible whats happened but do we have to be subject to this autopsy .


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Thank goodness their card was decline !


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Creativecat said:


> Really do we need to be shown this macabre spectacle


I've noticed this recently, as tho' they are trying to out-do each other with gory pictures.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Creativecat said:


> Can't believe the media are showing the knives the terrorists used wtf! Really do we need to be shown this macabre spectacle . And now being told they wanted to hire a big truck to mowe us down more efficiently but there card was declined . It's terrible whats happened but do we have to be subject to this autopsy .


I think the police have asked them to because they want information about the knives - they are pretty unusual looking.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

They were saying the knifes could have been brought from a Lidi supermaket.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I beleive they was ceramic so they said . I think they are unusual as ironically I was looking about getting a ceramic one a few months back as I love to chop n cut veges up with my cooking but couldn't find any places onlyetsl ones with a painted patterned blade . Wonder how easy it is order blades from the Internet like these. Not sure in all fairness . To think iv seen some horrifying tools and implements being sold at carboots and that's worrying also


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