# Pooch and Mutts Bionic Biotic



## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi, started giving my thin, farty loose bowelled Flatcoated Retriever this supplement 4 days ago having read rave reviews here on PF. Up till now I have tried to keep his diet grain free and as he is very ribby and produces lots of gas and lots of drippy loose stools (not diarrhoea but difficult -to -pick- up -softer -than -I -would -like poo) I have decided to give this a go. Absolutely no improvement so far, in fact the gas is absolutely mortifying at the moment. Am wondering whether or not he really was grain intolerant all along rather than just in need of a probiotic. My other concern is the possibility of EPI which seems to fit his symptons. If there is no improvement in his bowel issues having given the Pooch and Mutts a week or so then I may have this possibility investigated. How long would you persevere with the Probiotic before investigating the possibility of a more serious underlying cause to his bowel problems?? I am still feeding a grain free kibble even though the Bionic Biotics contains corn meal and oat meal.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Hi, started giving my thin, farty loose bowelled Flatcoated Retriever this supplement 4 days ago having read rave reviews here on PF. Up till now I have tried to keep his diet grain free and as he is very ribby and produces lots of gas and lots of drippy loose stools (not diarrhoea but difficult -to -pick- up -softer -than -I -would -like poo) I have decided to give this a go. Absolutely no improvement so far, in fact the gas is absolutely mortifying at the moment. Am wondering whether or not he really was grain intolerant all along rather than just in need of a probiotic. My other concern is the possibility of EPI which seems to fit his symptons. If there is no improvement in his bowel issues having given the Pooch and Mutts a week or so then I may have this possibility investigated. How long would you persevere with the Probiotic before investigating the possibility of a more serious underlying cause to his bowel problems?? I am still feeding a grain free kibble even though the Bionic Biotics contains corn meal and oat meal.


They say around three weeks, however on the site there is contact details and they are usually very helpful so may be worth speaking to them.

Probiotic for Dogs | Bionic Biotic | Dog Health Supplement | Pooch and Mutt

If after speaking to them you are still not sure, there are other pre and probiotics on the market, that are just purely pre and probiotic. Protexin do one called Pro-soluable and also Lintbells do one called bioactive.

It could be Exocrine Pancreatic insufficiency that means he doesnt make the necessarry digestive enzymes, with that you have to add the enzymes usually in powder form to the meals and if I remember rightly low fat plays a part in the diet too. One of my friends had a keeshond with it and had to feed her on Hills ID wet and add the enzymes and she was absolutely fine on that.

He may even have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or yeast overgrowth in the gut too that can cause problems aswell.


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

It could also be a parasite, maybe ask your vet to check/treat for Giardia or similar? 

We have had regular soft stool issues with Beau (different to a couple of bouts of colitis) usually he does a good one and a bad one, no gas problems though. To try to help we have gone cereal free, and I have found he doesn't tolerate chicken well, the higher quality foods are also too rich. 

Beau is currently on Wafcol salmon and potato which he better than usual on, I particularly like that it doesn't have loads of extra ingredients in it and seems to be a good simple food. I am giving him a good few months on it and supplementing with Lintbells pre and pro biotic to see how that goes.

I hope you find something to help, I know how annoying it is to be picking up soft poop and the worry that something is not quite right with your dog. I have also tried pro kaolin which didn't help Beau and homemade pumpkin puree which did help when he was bad but makes no difference to him now.


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

Just wondering which food he is on? maybe a gentle wet would be good - something like wainrights trays? Or as a last resort try Chappie to stabilise then slowly change over to something else?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would expect it to have made some difference by now and one of the reasons I do not like this product is because a) it is grain based and b) it has ingredients which are superfluous to the main aim.

I have found Yumpro a much better product especially a I choose to feed a grain free diet.

Digestive problems in dogs, dog stomach problems - Lintbells


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks for advice. Will persevere with Bionic Biotics for a week or 2 more and if things don't imrove will try the Yumpro.
He is fed on Working hprs Fish and Potato and before this was fed on Fish4dogs. I have fed him on tinned Original Chappie when he has had the runs (after a 12 hour fast) only to find it has made matters MUCH worse (I keep some of this in stock just in case my other dog ever gets a dodgy tum). He is also a real scavenger and eats so very quickly that he wheezes (I use slow feed bowls, interactive toys and scattering food to slow him down). The fact that he is SO hungry supports my suspicions about him maybe having EPI. I am considering getting a basket muzzle for him to stop him picking up scraps of bread that we seem to come upon frequently on our walks  but have put it off because I can't face all the half-witted comments from people such as "Oh, do he bite love?" etc.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I've used BB loads and swear by it for my little ones dodgy tum. At one point I dont know how we would have coped without it.
I always have some in "just in case" but once it put her back on track, we seldom have to resort to it. 

I usually see results quite quickly.

If you have any queries at all, Guy at Pooch and Mutt answers all question promptly and is v helpful. It may be worth sending him a email.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I've used BB loads and swear by it for my little ones dodgy tum. At one point I dont know how we would have coped without it.
> I always have some in "just in case" but once it put her back on track, we seldom have to resort to it.
> 
> I usually see results quite quickly.
> ...


SAme here. When we first got Harvey he'd been fed pedigree at the rescue and I tried to swap him over gradually, but Roo started eating it and he ended up with awful runs as a consequence. So I stopped it, on advice from my vet, fed them both Chappie and BB for a few days, then began the faff of trying to find something that suited them and we eventually moved onto skinners and BB and after a few days all settled.

Now the pair of them, I'm lucky in that they can pretty much tolerate most stuff, but if they ever do get a dicky tummy the chappie and BB comes out.


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## guyblaskey (Nov 26, 2007)

As some people have said above, feel free to drop me an email: guy(at)poochandmutt(dot)com

You should give the product 3 weeks min. to work, and if you have any problems at first it is best to introduce gradually: a 1/4 dose for 2 days, 1/2 dose for 2 days, 3/4 dose for 2 days, then up to the full dose.

The symptoms that you describe are ones that Bionic Biotic generally do help with. In some cases we see results in a week, some take considerably longer - every dog and every case is different.

A quick note about the corn. This comes up a lot. It is not a 'superfluous' ingredient - it is in there to absorb oils, so that we can mix oils, oil soluble nutrients and water soluble nutrients together - it is part of what makes the product both unique and effective. The main problem with cereals in a dog's diet come when cereals make up the bulk of the diet. With Bionic Biotic you are only feeding a tiny amount, so it could never have an adverse effect.

Also.... a few people mentioned it already, but a Bionic Biotic / chappie combination - although not something we have tried ourselves, or endorse, is something that we do hear good things about.

Regards

Guy.
MD Pooch & Mutt (maker of Bionic Biotic)


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

guyblaskey said:


> As some people have said above, feel free to drop me an email: guy(at)poochandmutt(dot)com
> 
> You should give the product 3 weeks min. to work, and if you have any problems at first it is best to introduce gradually: a 1/4 dose for 2 days, 1/2 dose for 2 days, 3/4 dose for 2 days, then up to the full dose.
> 
> ...


Thanks Guy. Mario has been on the Bionic Biotics for a week now and already his stools are firming up and are becoming less frequent. Pleased to say the gas output has decreased too Will do an update next week and just hope this is a sign of things to come.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Thanks Guy. Mario has been on the Bionic Biotics for a week now and already his stools are firming up and are becoming less frequent. Pleased to say the gas output has decreased too Will do an update next week and just hope this is a sign of things to come.


Word of advice is not to rush it. I'd give him a week solid of his poops being "good" before introducing another food/weaning the BB off, just to make sure.

Speaking from experience lol. :001_tongue:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Totally agree with what HandH says. If tum is left sensitive after an upset, slowly slowly is the best approach.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Horse and Hound said:


> Word of advice is not to rush it. I'd give him a week solid of his poops being "good" before introducing another food/weaning the BB off, just to make sure.
> 
> Speaking from experience lol. :001_tongue:


Oh, I was under the impression that BB was for long term and continuous use as a dietary supplement. I was planning on feeding him it indefinitely if the results prove to be good. What do you think? I have found out the cheapest place to get it from and it will work out at around £2.50 per week which is a small price to pay for evenings of fresh air and no need to invest in a gas mask


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Heidi was on it for about 6 months after her tum probs. The last few months 1/2 dose as a maintenance precaution. 

I've always got some here and if it comes close to date, make sure I use it up. There is a noticeable difference in her when she is on it.

She's recently developed an allergy during the summer months (grass I think)and BB sorts that as well so Heidi gets BB for the biggest part of the year.

Guy recommended that I keep her on 1/2 dose so it's up to you what you choose to do. I would wait until he's been on it a while then perhaps try 1/2 dose. If that goes well, then try dropping it for a while and see how he goes.

My plan was to keep it for upsets but Heidi's tum and general health is better with long term use.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Mavis has a bionic biotic everyday and it has done wonders for her ( thankyou Mum2Heid for that ) *touch wood* Mavis has had a few years history of stomach problems and so far so good....Just wish it didn't change her into a wonderdog :w00t:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

paddyjulie said:


> Mavis has a bionic biotic everyday and it has done wonders for her ( thankyou Mum2Heid for that ) *touch wood* Mavis has had a few years history of stomach problems and so far so good....Just wish it didn't change her into a wonderdog :w00t:


Aww ........ I'm really glad it's helped Mavis. I know what you mean re the "wonderdog".

Heidi's like a little pocket rocket on it and I often wonder what it would be like to have the biotics without the bionics:hand::hand::hand:


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Just a quick update on the Bionic Biotics:
My dog now seems to poop a lot less and that which he does produce is firmer and less likely to be a problem to pick up when out walking. He also seems less desperate to rush out of the house in the mornings to do his poops. He already looks less ribby (in only 2 1/2 weeks!!!). He is still a bit gassy but the BB has cut his flatulence down by around 80% . I have also started introducing things such as raw carrot sticks, left over cooked veg etc to his diet without a problem whereas previously things like carrot used to pass through him seemingly totally undigested. Can't believe how quickly things are improving but just wish I had started using this a long time ago (he will be 2 in Feb.). Once he has filled out a bit more I will post some before and after pics


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Just a quick update on the Bionic Biotics:
> My dog now seems to poop a lot less and that which he does produce is firmer and less likely to be a problem to pick up when out walking. He also seems less desperate to rush out of the house in the mornings to do his poops. He already looks less ribby (in only 2 1/2 weeks!!!). He is still a bit gassy but the BB has cut his flatulence down by around 80% . I have also started introducing things such as raw carrot sticks, left over cooked veg etc to his diet without a problem whereas previously things like carrot used to pass through him seemingly totally undigested. Can't believe how quickly things are improving but just wish I had started using this a long time ago (he will be 2 in Feb.). Once he has filled out a bit more I will post some before and after pics


Great news so glad there is a difference already in him.:thumbup:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Brilliant - I'm really pleased you've had such good results and most importantly that your dog is so much better.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Molly has been on a teaspoon of Bionic Biotic for over a week now and if anything her diarrhorea has gotten worse-is that usual?
The dosage guidance says 2 x teaspoons but also said to start gradually so that's what we've been doing-should i 'up' the dosage now to 2 x teaspoons to see if that firms her up??


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

smudgebiscuit said:


> Molly has been on a teaspoon of Bionic Biotic for over a week now and if anything her diarrhorea has gotten worse-is that usual?
> The dosage guidance says 2 x teaspoons but also said to start gradually so that's what we've been doing-should i 'up' the dosage now to 2 x teaspoons to see if that firms her up??


You could try upping to the full dose and see what happens I believe if you check the website it does say about up to 3 weeks to see results.

They are very helpful too, so if you have any questions they will likely be pleased to answer them contact details should be on the site too,

Probiotic for Dogs | Bionic Biotic | Dog Health Supplement | Pooch and Mutt


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> You could try upping to the full dose and see what happens I believe if you check the website it does say about up to 3 weeks to see results.
> 
> They are very helpful too, so if you have any questions they will likely be pleased to answer them contact details should be on the site too,
> 
> Probiotic for Dogs | Bionic Biotic | Dog Health Supplement | Pooch and Mutt


Thanks, perhaps we should try the larger dose, just so frustrating trying to get her solid, never knew a dog with runny poo would get me down
:001_tt2:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

smudgebiscuit said:


> Thanks, perhaps we should try the larger dose, just so frustrating trying to get her solid, never knew a dog with runny poo would get me down
> :001_tt2:


Part of dog ownership Im afraid to become poo obsessed, only dog owners can appreciate and talk on the subject for hours on end.
Seriously though, dont know how old she is but there is certain conditions that can cause loose poo and diarrhoea type motions, worms can, there is also protozoan parasites like giardia and coccidia, bacterial and yeast overgrowths present in the gut, if it continues what ever you do then you can get a fecal test done at the vets to look to see if any of the above are present. Even certain bacterial infections like campylobacter can be present, these need specific antibiotics and extended courses to clear it, most wormers dont do coccidia or giardia either, Panacur does giardia though.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Part of dog ownership Im afraid to become poo obsessed, only dog owners can appreciate and talk on the subject for hours on end.
> Seriously though, dont know how old she is but there is certain conditions that can cause loose poo and diarrhoea type motions, worms can, there is also protozoan parasites like giardia and coccidia, bacterial and yeast overgrowths present in the gut, if it continues what ever you do then you can get a fecal test done at the vets to look to see if any of the above are present. Even certain bacterial infections like campylobacter can be present, these need specific antibiotics and extended courses to clear it, most wormers dont do coccidia or giardia either, Panacur does giardia though.


Thanks for this, have been wondering it's something more than just her allergies, vet is aware if the on going poo saga and we have recently wormed her but maybe worth another mention at next appoinment


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