# Willows odd markings



## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

I was looking at laceys kittens last night and noticed that willow the little girl tabby point siamese has started to get faint tabby markings on her sides There not strong enough to get a picture of them yet but definately there, she has small spots at the top near her back and then about 4/5 stripes going down her side. I think her markings are going to be stunning but this isn't normal for a siamese is it? im starting to think now seeing these that dad might not be siamese/oriental after all, what do you think?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

doogpoh said:


> I was looking at laceys kittens last night and noticed that willow the little girl tabby point siamese has started to get faint tabby markings on her sides There not strong enough to get a picture of them yet but definately there, she has small spots at the top near her back and then about 4/5 stripes going down her side. I think her markings are going to be stunning but this isn't normal for a siamese is it? im starting to think now seeing these that dad might not be siamese/oriental after all, what do you think?


One of my Colour Point kittens had ghost tabby markings to! (mine are moggies but still seal point) he still has them too but they are a lot fainter!


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Acacia86 said:


> One of my Colour Point kittens had ghost tabby markings to! (mine are moggies but still seal point) he still has them too but they are a lot fainter!


Thank you acacia86, i just googled ghost tabby markings and it said they disapper in the first year, i was hoping they would stay they look really nice


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

It can happen. When your siamese babies start to shade up their underlying Agouti patten may start showing through, especialy if they are spotty based. So if they are Seal Tabbies their spots probably will not go.

Now as to an Oriental father, I have had my suspicions about this. I am sure someone on here may correct me if I am wrong because I have not seen a litter of Oriental spotties, but what I have seen is a lot of Bengal spottie litters. And those spottie kittens look very much like bengals to me. But it would have to be a father who is carrying the Blue eyed snow gene to produce the siamese babies which of course is possible.

This is just my opinion and anyone please correct me if I am wrong.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Lulusmum said:


> It can happen. When your siamese babies start to shade up their underlying Agouti patten may start showing through, especialy if they are spotty based. So if they are Seal Tabbies their spots probably will not go.
> 
> Now as to an Oriental father, I have had my suspicions about this. I am sure someone on here may correct me if I am wrong because I have not seen a litter of Oriental spotties, but what I have seen is a lot of Bengal spottie litters. And those spottie kittens look very much like bengals to me. But it would have to be a father who is carrying the Blue eyed snow gene to produce the siamese babies which of course is possible.
> 
> This is just my opinion and anyone please correct me if I am wrong.


Thank you lulusmum, i hope her spots do stay i think she's going to be a very pretty girl . Merlinsmum said about the possibility of dad being a bengal aswell as they carry the colourpoint gene, it will be interesting to see when there a little older as to what they are, i didn't know you could get tabby orientals until i came on here so i have no idea from looking at them.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Seals solid or tabby can be quite shaded as babies but their coats clear as they get older.

Bengal father has been mentioned, which would be a strong possibility if all the babies were tabby, but there is a solid siamese baby. Again not impossible for a bengal not to be hetrozygous for agouti, but you are narrowing down the odds.


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

Saikou said:


> possibility if all the babies were tabby, but there is a solid siamese baby. Again not impossible for a bengal not to be hetrozygous for agouti, but you are narrowing down the odds.


Sorry forgot about this one It would be unusual for a Bengal to be Hetrozygous for agouti but as you say not impossible.

Anyway just a thought. Wish I could breed spots like that on my Tonks.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Lulusmum said:


> Sorry forgot about this one It would be unusual for a Bengal to be Hetrozygous for agouti but as you say not impossible.
> 
> Anyway just a thought. Wish I could breed spots like that on my Tonks.


What does hetrozygous for agouti mean? :blush:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Agouti is the name for the gene that makes the tabby pattern show on a cat. Its a dominant gene so the cat only needs one of that pair of genes to be Agouti (as opposed to non agouti) to be a tabby.

In any pair of genes if both are the same its called homozygous ie the cat had 2 agouti (tabby) genes, or if the pair are different hetrozygous 1 agouti and one non agouti gene. (Hopefully I have that round the right way   )


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

doogpoh said:


> What does hetrozygous for agouti mean? :blush:


Easy answer they are a Tabby cat but could also breed non Tabby's. Homozygos (sp) means that they are tabby and will only breed tabby.

Saikou will probably explain it better than me.


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

See she beat me to it.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

At least we agreed


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

ok i think i get it, if dad was a bengal he would more than likely have 2 tabby point genes so babies would all be tabbies? so quite unlikely dad would be a bengal but not impossible? i was getting abit worried as my sqiushys mum is a snow marble bengal but he was neutered 5 1/2 months ago and her babies were born too early aswell for them to be his and people said on here they think he's a cross not pure bengal


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Thats right the vast majority of them do have 2 tabby genes, but there are the odd one that doesn't and when 2 of those get together you get what they call melanistic (sp) kittens, posh name for all black bengals.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Saikou said:


> Thats right the vast majority of them do have 2 tabby genes, but there are the odd one that doesn't and when 2 of those get together you get what they call melanistic (sp) kittens, posh name for all black bengals.


i wondered how you got melanistic bengals, you learn something new everyday on here


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## Mochali (Sep 29, 2008)

This is Pinky when he was a little older than yours...he's seal tabby 








You can just see his tabby markings down his back


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Mochali said:


> This is Pinky when he was a little older than yours...he's seal tabby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you mochali she's starting to get her face markings too, i didn't realise tabby points get markings on there bodies aswell i thought it just stayed on there head tail and legs:blush: pinky is very pretty love the name aswell


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## Mochali (Sep 29, 2008)

He's my soul mate


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Mochali said:


> He's my soul mate


He does look like a very special boy


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Lulusmum said:


> Now as to an Oriental father, I have had my suspicions about this. I am sure someone on here may correct me if I am wrong because I have not seen a litter of Oriental spotties, but what I have seen is a lot of Bengal spottie litters. And those spottie kittens look very much like bengals to me. But it would have to be a father who is carrying the Blue eyed snow gene to produce the siamese babies which of course is possible.
> 
> This is just my opinion and anyone please correct me if I am wrong.


Not sure if I have read this right, so forgive me Lulu's Mum if this isnt what you meant but if you google Tabby spotted Orientals there are lots of images of them so they do exist!


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Ok Im sorry Lulusmum, just reread ur post and I did misundertand it,I think you mean to you they look more like Bengals than orientals...Sorry my mistake


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

fifibelle said:


> Ok Im sorry Lulusmum, just reread ur post and I did misundertand it,I think you mean to you they look more like Bengals than orientals...Sorry my mistake


Sorry I should have said I personally have not seen spotty orientals of that age.


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

This is a 2 year old Seal Tabby Point Tonkinese. He has the same coat patten as a Siamese. His spots are getting darker as his body shades up


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

What a gorgeous looking boy!


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Lulusmum said:


> This is a 2 year old Seal Tabby Point Tonkinese. He has the same coat patten as a Siamese. His spots are getting darker as his body shades up


Awwwwwwww he is gorgeous, is he yours? He is soo chunky looking, he looks very cuddely!:001_tt1:


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

fifibelle said:


> Awwwwwwww he is gorgeous, is he yours? He is soo chunky looking, he looks very cuddely!:001_tt1:


Unfortunately not. He is one I bred though and wish I kept.


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

Isn't it always the way!!!


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

not a great picture but it shows her markings, i thought they were strips but looking more like spots to me now.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh yes I see them. How cute! :001_tt1:


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Lulusmum said:


> This is a 2 year old Seal Tabby Point Tonkinese. He has the same coat patten as a Siamese. His spots are getting darker as his body shades up


Lovely boy! :001_tt1:


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Oh shes gonna be such a stunner isnt she


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

I want her so bad lol!! She is soooo sweet.:001_tt1: :001_tt1: :001_tt1:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Wonderful picture, I love the way Lacey has her paw protectively hovering over Willow. We definitely need more pictures of them all  if you can keep them still enough


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

wahoo i got them while they were sleeping


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

OMG:001_tt1::001_tt1:Ther are stunning.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Lulusmum said:


> OMG:001_tt1::001_tt1:Ther are stunning.


Thank you  i can't get over how much they've grown already, little willow came over to see me yesterday but couldn't get out the box, i really want her to stay aswell i'll have to speak with my mum and see if she would like another one instead:wink:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

doogpoh said:


> wahoo i got them while they were sleeping


Gorgeous! and very Oriental-looking especially the first one. 
Who's who in the pics?


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> Gorgeous! and very Oriental-looking especially the first one.
> Who's who in the pics?


In first pic is isis, 
Second pic is willow, 
Third pic spottys left-right is pebbles,isis,tilly. meezers right is willow, middle is frosty and bottom is storm. 
Fourth pic is storm.
Last pic top-bottom is storm,willow,tilly,frosty,isis.

think that's right


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

lovely lovely lovely. Really beautiful babies. Its amazing really given Lacey's apparent history according to that woman - really makes you wonder!! Isis is definitely going to be wonderful trouble, I love the way she is sat on someone else.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

Thank you saikou i think your definately right about isis, that's probably why she's my oh's favourite


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## rhian d (Jan 26, 2010)

:001_tt1: what stunning pics. they have all grown so much i bet if u had it your way u would be keeping all of them lol which ones are u keeping ?


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

rhian d said:


> :001_tt1: what stunning pics. they have all grown so much i bet if u had it your way u would be keeping all of them lol which ones are u keeping ?


Yes i would and it really doesn't help when my oh said last night he doesn't mind if i do but at the moment i will be keeping frosty and isis and trying to get my mum to have tilly instead of willow so i can have her aswell:wink:.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

I forgot to say thank you saikou, my royal canin stuff got delivered on wednesday and she really likes it which is good and is already looking a bit better


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## Rebs (Feb 6, 2010)

Lulusmum your Tonkinese that you bred is a tabby mink if I'm correct :3 

A mink tabby has tabby points and tabby on the body, but the stripes are less visible on the main body. Which is what Willow and the Tonkinese looks like ^-^

Thought its possible Willow's tabby markings may fade with age. But none the less they are stunning!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Excellent, I hope it helps give her a bit of a calorie boost. Those babies look amazing, 6 is a big litter for a little girl and she has coped fabulously. Lacey really has been a star.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I like little stormy boy! I also like the little one lying upside down. I love Isis though, she is well cute!


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## Lulusmum (Jan 15, 2010)

Rebs said:


> Lulusmum your Tonkinese that you bred is a tabby mink if I'm correct :3
> 
> A mink tabby has tabby points and tabby on the body, but the stripes are less visible on the main body. Which is what Willow and the Tonkinese looks like ^-^
> 
> Thought its possible Willow's tabby markings may fade with age. But none the less they are stunning!


No he is a 2 year old Tabby point! He shaded very quickly like some Siamese lines do. Definately pointed. If he was Mink I would have kept him.


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Wow only just seen this they have suddenly really grown up, look at Isis' ;little face she is sooo pretty and her ears are looking really big now too they all look fantastic and really healthy :001_tt1:


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