# photo's!



## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

as promised photo's are here... looks to be 3 pure white.. one like mum.. and one dark stripy? looking one with white belly,feet and nose! gorgeous but where did that come from? lol dad was seen and is pure white lol.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

and more....


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> as promised photo's are here... looks to be 3 pure white.. one like mum.. and one dark stripy? looking one with white belly,feet and nose! gorgeous but where did that come from? lol dad was seen and is pure white lol.


I don't remember the exact origins of your cat but are you certain there is only one father?


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

no idea on father other than the white one seen mating her.. i rescued her after my filthy neighbours abandoned her and discovered she was pregnant straight away. i assume she is a tortie cross and the seen father is a pure white cat.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> no idea on father other than the white one seen mating her.. i rescued her after my filthy neighbours abandoned her and discovered she was pregnant straight away. i assume she is a tortie cross and the seen father is a pure white cat.


Tortie is a colour so she's just a tortie moggy 

There could be any number of fathers if she has been outside, in fact thats most likely. I would imagine thats where your little tabby has come from. All cats have the tabby gene and some don't show it and some other complicated thing, but personally I would probably say that ones got another dad looking at the rest!


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

aw bless it. i think that is a beautiful one. just got to make sure now my male don't go near the babies so i've put a lock on the room door where she is. i don't think he will intentionally hurt but i think he would think they are toys lol.


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## Lushgirl84 (Jun 27, 2011)

GORGEOUS looking kittens, Mummy looks so proud, I love the grey striped one, so adorable..


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

The white gene doesn't restrict itself to patterns or amounts - it can maifest itself as just a little or quite a lot - so the white on your dark tabby will quite possibly be from either dad or mum or both - mum has dark patches are they tabby too? Her tail looks to have stripes - you can't count the stripes on the red as red always (99.9%) of the time shows stripes but doesn't mena that mum is a tabby too, so def need to check the dark patches.

TB is right tortie is a colour not a breed - any breed can have tortie cats is the genetic combinations are right colourwise.


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## 2lisa2 (Apr 30, 2010)

aww lovely


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

spid said:


> The white gene doesn't restrict itself to patterns or amounts - it can maifest itself as just a little or quite a lot - so the white on your dark tabby will quite possibly be from either dad or mum or both - mum has dark patches are they tabby too? Her tail looks to have stripes - you can't count the stripes on the red as red always (99.9%) of the time shows stripes but doesn't mena that mum is a tabby too, so def need to check the dark patches.
> 
> TB is right tortie is a colour not a breed - any breed can have tortie cats is the genetic combinations are right colourwise.


thanks spid  i am not up on cat breeds lol. i am not even totally sure on my males breed apart from him having beautiful blue eyes and chocolate tips, nose and pads lol. a different site seemed to think he was a tonk. back to this little cat, yes she does have a stripey tail. i call it a tiger tail lol. do you mean to check in her dark markings for stripes? sorry if i'm being dense but it feels like a long day lol. i could post a different pic of her .


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

she does look like a tortie tabby, both are just patterns, her 'breed' would be moggie.

poor poor girl, will you keep any of the kittens? Or have you asked a rescue to help you rehome them? they are lovely, i do like white kittens, the kittens could have loads of dads, so unless you can DNA test them all you wont know whose dad is who, and just because he mated her doesnt mean any are his!

just hope he has been neutered


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

i have been put in touch with a lady who helps rehome cats for the cat protection. i have homes for 3 of them but with having 2 cats already i will not be keeping any myself. my male no longer wants his cuddles from me as i think she pushed him out.  the white male is in process of being done but he won't go home, they are trying to get him home to take him to vets. at least i can be sure it's not my male causing havoc and i can now plan this little girls op.


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## cazcatz (Jun 14, 2011)

Ahhh glad all went ok with the birth and mum is doing well. Are they good weights?:001_tongue:


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Not sure on weights as I only have normal cooking scales.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> Not sure on weights as I only have normal cooking scales.


You really need to get some good accurate digital scales so you can accurately measure the weights  Very cheap from Tesco or Argos.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jordebony said:


> i have been put in touch with a lady who helps rehome cats for the cat protection. i have homes for 3 of them but with having 2 cats already i will not be keeping any myself. my male no longer wants his cuddles from me as i think she pushed him out.  the white male is in process of being done but he won't go home, they are trying to get him home to take him to vets. at least i can be sure it's not my male causing havoc and i can now plan this little girls op.


glad they have caught them, and neutered them.



jordebony said:


> Not sure on weights as I only have normal cooking scales.


you HAVE to weigh them EVERY DAY at the same time to know if they are gaining, this simple thing can save their lifes!! They may not be gaining, mum might have no milk, you wont know until its to late, I use scales, they were £7 that fine, so PLEASE weigh them now, it can save their lifes.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

on my kitchen scales the smallest is 3oz, and all the other 4 are 4 oz.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> on my kitchen scales the smallest is 3oz, and all the other 4 are 4 oz.


How old are they?

The 3oz one is concerning as thats 85g. You really need to get some more accurate scales to get a better picture as he may need to be topped up. They are 2 days old yes? 85 gram at 2 days is very worrying...

The others are 113g which isnt great, but we dont know what they were at birth...

They should be gaining 10g a day and you simply cannot get that accurate with the scales you are using my the sounds of it.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> How old are they?
> 
> The 3oz one is concerning as thats 85g. You really need to get some more accurate scales to get a better picture as he may need to be topped up. They are 2 days old yes? 85 gram at 2 days is very worrying...
> 
> ...


hi they was born yesterday afternoon. mummy is very small as she was too young in my eyes to be having babies  but she won't be having any more. i'm closely watching the little and so far it seems the feistiest one when getting to a nipple lol. but i will keep monitoring it.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> hi they was born yesterday afternoon. mummy is very small as she was too young in my eyes to be having babies  but she won't be having any more. i'm closely watching the little and so far it seems the feistiest one when getting to a nipple lol. but i will keep monitoring it.


well 85 g full stop is not good. Make sure you keep weighing him every day to make sure he is gaining at least 10g a day. Other breeders will know better.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

what do you mean when you say other breeders will no better? do you mean in regards to weights? i'm no breeder myself just gave a home to her after she was abandoned. its the first and definitely last time i'm having kittens being born. cute they may be but they are a bigger worry than they are cute.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> what do you mean when you say other breeders will no better? do you mean in regards to weights? i'm no breeder myself just gave a home to her after she was abandoned. its the first and definitely last time i'm having kittens being born. cute they may be but they are a bigger worry than they are cute.


About how to proceed with the small kitten. I have no experience so other people who breed cats will know best. He is quite small and its a bit concerning BUT as long as he gains 10g a day and continues to grow then he should be fine, but you must be sure to weigh accurately each day


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## Lushgirl84 (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi Hun, 
Get some digital scales and start weighing them as soon as you get them, write down the time and weight, then weigh them again 12hours after the first weigh.

Keep weighting them every 12 hours, then you will get a clearer picture on whether they are gaining or losing the weight.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> About how to proceed with the small kitten. I have no experience so other people who breed cats will know best. He is quite small and its a bit concerning BUT as long as he gains 10g a day and continues to grow then he should be fine, but you must be sure to weigh accurately each day


i've just looked on line and tesco do some digital scales and only 10 pounds so i will go tomorrow and get them. i hope he/she does keep doing well. mum is eating and drinking well so i know her nourishment is doing well and she looks in gr8 condition bless her. i'm amazed she has took to being a mummy so well as she still likes to suckle herself on my dressing gown!


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## Lushgirl84 (Jun 27, 2011)

jordebony said:


> i've just looked on line and tesco do some digital scales and only 10 pounds so i will go tomorrow and get them. i hope he/she does keep doing well. mum is eating and drinking well so i know her nourishment is doing well and she looks in gr8 condition bless her. i'm amazed she has took to being a mummy so well as she still likes to suckle herself on my dressing gown!


Thats brill, nice and cheap! Some mummy cats do surprise ya and mature very quickly yet some dont take to it at all, Thats where i step in


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Lushgirl84 said:


> Thats brill, nice and cheap! Some mummy cats do surprise ya and mature very quickly yet some dont take to it at all, Thats where i step in


aw bless, well i think i would be good at stepping in if needed as i've done it with baby rabbits before after my 2 "females" surprised me with litter... soon got seperated the little buggers lol. one was rejected and i mothered it and kept it. hard work but very worthwhile nursing them especially every 2 hours through the night lol.


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## Lushgirl84 (Jun 27, 2011)

jordebony said:


> aw bless, well i think i would be good at stepping in if needed as i've done it with baby rabbits before after my 2 "females" surprised me with litter... soon got seperated the little buggers lol. one was rejected and i mothered it and kept it. hard work but very worthwhile nursing them especially every 2 hours through the night lol.


Yeh every 2 hours for tiny kittens too, My OH said, you really enjoy doing that dont you? I said yep sure do, very rewarding when you see that they are doing so well.

Iv had a couple pass away, no matter how hard i tried, their little bodies couldnt take it.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Lushgirl84 said:


> Yeh every 2 hours for tiny kittens too, My OH said, you really enjoy doing that dont you? I said yep sure do, very rewarding when you see that they are doing so well.
> 
> Iv had a couple pass away, no matter how hard i tried, their little bodies couldnt take it.


yes sometimes its just natures way, i've had friends cats have litters and seen one kitten with deformed legs, so twisted! it didn't survive bless it. i personally would of gotten it to a vet to see if it could of been helped. so pleased all dusty's babies look in fine form although look tiny but when they are lay next to her they actually look in proportion as she only looks like my male did at 6 mnths.


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## Lushgirl84 (Jun 27, 2011)

jordebony said:


> yes sometimes its just natures way, i've had friends cats have litters and seen one kitten with deformed legs, so twisted! it didn't survive bless it. i personally would of gotten it to a vet to see if it could of been helped. so pleased all dusty's babies look in fine form although look tiny but when they are lay next to her they actually look in proportion as she only looks like my male did at 6 mnths.


Aww bless them! good experience?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

ok dont jump to conclusions just yet, 85g isnt fantastic, but its not crap either, I mean we can still get it up there.

first off, what time did you weigh them? take 12hours from that and weigh them dead on, you want a min of 5g gain for all of them, if there is none or a loss, weigh them again in 12hours, as newborns can gain/lose a little, if again its a loss, take mum to the vet asap (has to be done within 48hours) for a shot of oxytocin, this will boost her milk supply, give the kittens one small feed (per instructions on the box (e.g. cimi-cat / lactol) DO NOT over feed, this can kill them, get someone to show you how to do it as it can again go in their lungs and kill them.

Im currently raising a litter of 5, there were 8  to start with and mum has no milk, and its the hardest thing IVe done in my life.

then leave them with mum, the more they suckle the more her milk supply will comes out, again do a 12hour checkm if they gain around 5, thats brill, if its under 5, do a check again in 12hours, as you dont want to rush in hand feeding as obviously mums milk is best, but von the other hand you dont want to leave it as they can go downhil within minutes 

so after this, if they are losing weight, then you have to start feeding, if they are gaining tiny amounts Id say to only top up, prob start off doing 3-5feeds a day, not forcing them, so they get mums milk & what you give them.

if they do a nice 10g gain a day then thats what your aiming for, (well, 8-10)

hope that makes sense, still not sleeping, I actually dont remember much of thw first two weeks, I do know that at one point I only had 3 hours sleep in 2 days and nearly passed out, but thats what you have to do, their life depends on it.

any other advice please ask or pm me if you want it in private


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

thank you taylor. your advice is brilliant and has made me feel more at ease. i've just been up and checked and all 5 were sucking away at a content mummy. i weighed them all at 4:30 this afternoon. which was roughly 24 hrs after they were born.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

One thing I would like to ask is... Mum keeps wanting to come out the room she is in and head off downstairs. Is she ok to leave them or am I best keeping her locked in the one room still?


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> One thing I would like to ask is... Mum keeps wanting to come out the room she is in and head off downstairs. Is she ok to leave them or am I best keeping her locked in the one room still?


If she is your only cat I would allow her to have time away from the kittens if she needs it. Just obviously make sure is going back to feed then. I would put her litter tray in the room and food in the room also so kittens can see her eating/pooing later.

The only time I wouldnt would be if letting her out allows another cat access in.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> If she is your only cat I would allow her to have time away from the kittens if she needs it. Just obviously make sure is going back to feed then. I would put her litter tray in the room and food in the room also so kittens can see her eating/pooing later.
> 
> The only time I wouldnt would be if letting her out allows another cat access in.


her food drink and litter tray are in there, I have got another little boy but he is out until I go to bed now then I will fetch him in. So I will make sure she is back in the room before he comes back.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

jordebony said:


> her food drink and litter tray are in there, I have got another little boy but he is out until I go to bed now then I will fetch him in. So I will make sure she is back in the room before he comes back.


Maybe I am paranoid but Id worry about the outdoor cat bringing in something she could pick up....

Is he neutered? Is he able to come in of his own accord or does he need to be let in?


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Maybe I am paranoid but Id worry about the outdoor cat bringing in something she could pick up....
> 
> Is he neutered? Is he able to come in of his own accord or does he need to be let in?


he was neutered as soon as he was old enough, and fully vaccinated and microchipped. He has to be let in, normally he sits and looks at me through the window lol. He is not allowed in her room at all why the babies are in there.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

If he has no way of getting in other than being let in (ie cant sneak in unexpectedly) then I dont see why she couldnt have a little break whilst hes outside.


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Thank you I appreciate all this help and advice. I feel more at ease.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jordebony said:


> thank you taylor. your advice is brilliant and has made me feel more at ease. i've just been up and checked and all 5 were sucking away at a content mummy. i weighed them all at 4:30 this afternoon. which was roughly 24 hrs after they were born.





jordebony said:


> One thing I would like to ask is... Mum keeps wanting to come out the room she is in and head off downstairs. Is she ok to leave them or am I best keeping her locked in the one room still?


remember that suckling is instinct, whether mum has milk or not they will suckle and seak out the nipples, mine all feed from mum, yet she has nothing and her boobs never devloped, nothing comes out, but they have done it from 30mins old and are 6weeks and 3days old now.

can you not keep mum in the room you are in most? she will want tou to be with her, they do laeve the kits but mainly if humans arent their for support, they can get upset, would be ideal if you can sleep on the sofa & have her next to you, I do this from 2weeks before my kittens are born to around 7-8weeks after, you never know when mum or kittens will need your help and they do like to know your neaer


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

She is in my bedroom at the side of my bed. I can't have her downstairs yet as I have 3 young kids and a dog to contend with then lol. But I spend a lot of time throughout the day with her. Think she knew it was our nightly cuddle time as once she had her hour on me she went back to her babies. I'm buying digital scales tomorrow so will check babies weights better.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jordebony said:


> She is in my bedroom at the side of my bed. I can't have her downstairs yet as I have 3 young kids and a dog to contend with then lol. But I spend a lot of time throughout the day with her. Think she knew it was our nightly cuddle time as once she had her hour on me she went back to her babies. I'm buying digital scales tomorrow so will check babies weights better.


you said you weighed in at 4.30pm so you have to get up at 4.30am im afraid, otherwise it only takes minutes, just a example with the litter that im hand rearing, I have not spoke about this apart froma few people on here who have been supporting me, but when they were 3weeks old, one was playing on me then went to sleep, was totally fine, in a matter of 30mins he went so downhill that at 11.30pm we raced to the emerge vets and admitted him, 10mins later they came back and said its kinda to pts as he'd gone even further downhill and died. all of this within 40mins, had a post mortom and nothing waws wrong, was perfect.

that is how quick they go downhill, one miunte they are playing the next minute they are dying. so you have to get up, esp as they are such small weights and mum is so young.

i would also make them go to the loo incase she isnt doing it as if it builds up, again it can be serious to the point of death


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi although on the scales I've got at moment I cant tell gr8 but at 4:30 the weights all seemed to be around the same. I'll know more today. I'm up through night every night with my little so I timed one of her meds to coincide with weigh in lol.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jordebony said:


> Hi although on the scales I've got at moment I cant tell gr8 but at 4:30 the weights all seemed to be around the same. I'll know more today. I'm up through night every night with my little so I timed one of her meds to coincide with weigh in lol.


really no gain at all in 12hours?
you must have weighed them again now as its 12hours later again, so what are the 24hour weigh in results?


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## jordebony (Jun 22, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> really no gain at all in 12hours?
> you must have weighed them again now as its 12hours later again, so what are the 24hour weigh in results?


I've put weights on a new thread. Think my scales where incorrect. Brought some good digital ones.


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