# feeding problems...border collie



## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

hey. i have owned dogs for nearly all my life and have come to the end of my tether with my newest member to the pack, my 9 month old border collie indiana who i resued just 2 weeks ago. soon as i got him he had diarrhea so i wormed him and fasted him for 12 hours for his tummy to "reset" then i started to feed him boiled rice and chicken at the same time as slowly introducing bakers complete puppy mix dry dog food to the mix. his poos got alot better at this point till about 2 days later then he got the skitters again. so i repeated what i just said and he was fin for another couple days then the diarrhea came back again. it just seems to be with the more biscuits i add to the mix this happens. took him to the vet and they said im doing the right thing so i carry on. am currently doing the same just now but i was told that the bakers puppy mix might be too nutritious for him so im trying him with my other dogs food which is tescos premium chicken and veg complete dry food (i personally couldnt find any problems with this food, before anyone calls me cheap lol my collie shep has been on it for about 4 years now)...since i have tried him on this food he hasnt needed the toilet yet but knowing my luck ill have to start over again with fasting the poor boy. hes been starved more than feed that past 2 weeks so any help and advice would be very much appreciated. ive owned plenty dogs to last me a life time but never had this problem with any of them.

ps. ive found this quite hard to explain as i tend to rattle on so thanks for your patients :thumbup:

paul


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

forgot to mention...he is fully uptodate with all his jabs, even kennel cough and not due any till next april 2012


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Switching between one food and another is guaranteed to make the poor ruddy dog ill! 

Bakers contains carciogens (cancer causing ingredients). Nice.

Tesco or any other supermarket brand is frankly cheap and crap. Your vet wil probably sell you Hills or Science Plan, both of which are equally crap, but they nowt about nutrition and are sponsored to sell this rubbish. Lots of dogs are gluten intolerant so if you're giving dry food with cereal included, like supermarket brands so this may well be the problem.

For decent food, look at the dry and wet stickies above.


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## JenJen22 (Sep 29, 2011)

Heya welcome to forum!

We adopted our collie 9 months ago and 3 months ago he started loosing weight n having diarrhoea all the time. He got an ultra sound done n they found his intestines were inflamed! Vet says the food we were giving him (pedigree) was too rich n he wasn't absorbing nutrients at all. We now feed him chappie mixed with asdas hero wet food and he has been fine ever since!! He has a sensitive stomach apparently! 

Ever dog is different but ur story sounded similar to mine n thought I'd share it with as the above has worked for our boy


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

it is bakers complete beef and veg puppy mix (6 - 24 months)


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm almost certain the problems are related to the food you are feeding. Sorry to sound harsh but what you are feeding your dog is rubbish. As for the food being too nutritious. Are you kidding? You couldn't of picked a worse food. It has hardly any meat in it and full of junk which dogs can not digest properly and have no nutritional value to it. A hamburger would be more nutritious!:mad2:


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

thanks jen jen will take that in. think i will try him with some wet food along with some dry if this tescos premium complete dry food doesnt agree with him. so far it has been trial and error to find out what is agreeing with him and nothing has apart from the boiled rice and chicken


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

My lil Babies said:


> I'm almost certain the problems are related to the food you are feeding. Sorry to sound harsh but what you are feeding your dog is rubbish. As for the food being too nutritious. Are you kidding? You couldn't of picked a worse food. It has hardly any meat in it and full of junk which dogs can not digest properly and have no nutritional value to it. A hamburger would be more nutritious!:mad2:


is this the bakers your on about? if so i have been told yesterday thats why im not giving him it anymore. trying him on my other dogs food but still yet to see his "business"


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

have a look at this thread http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/189896-dry-dog-food-index.html

Theres some really good food suggestions in there


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm afraid I do agree with the others. Bakers is a dreadful food in terms of nutrition, as are all supermarket brands.

Border collies do tend to have quite a sensitive digestive system and a few can't tolerate any form of grain in their diet. Have a look in the sticky about Dry food ratings (the raw feeding may be of use to you too) and wet food rtings. These will give you an idea of the good quality foods out there.

Unfortunately, the foods you have mentioned are equivalent to a human eating a cheese burger and fries every day for the rest of your life, and nothing else


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

peanut651 said:


> is this the bakers your on about? if so i have been told yesterday thats why im not giving him it anymore. trying him on my other dogs food but still yet to see his "business"


Yes bakers is about the worse dog food there is!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> Bakers contains carciogens (*cancer* causing ingredients). Nice.
> 
> any other *supermarket* brand is frankly cheap and crap.





JenJen22 said:


> We now feed him chappie mixed with asdas hero wet food and he has been fine ever since!!


Oh my. Chappie dry? Also contains cancer causing ingredients (called BHA or BHT or also called Permitted EC additives. Lovely.)



My lil Babies said:


> I'm almost certain the problems are related to the food you are feeding. Sorry to sound harsh but what you are feeding your dog is rubbish. As for the food being too nutritious. Are you kidding? You couldn't of picked a worse food. It has hardly any meat in it and full of junk which dogs can not digest properly and have no nutritional value to it. A hamburger would be more nutritious!:mad2:


All of what she said. ^^ :mad2:


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## JenJen22 (Sep 29, 2011)

peanut651 said:


> thanks jen jen will take that in. think i will try him with some wet food along with some dry if this tescos premium complete dry food doesnt agree with him. so far it has been trial and error to find out what is agreeing with him and nothing has apart from the boiled rice and chicken


Ye it was trial and error for us too, vet said if ur changing food u need to do it gradually over 2-3 week period as changing it every few days will just result in more diarrhoea!

Hope he gets better soon tho,  it took our boy about 6 weeks to get better!!!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Tesco premium Puppy complete dog food with beef and vegatables.

Ingredients
Cereals, meat and animal derivatives (minimum 4% in the component with beef) vegetable protein extracts derivatives of vegetable origin, oils and fats, minerals, various sugars, yeast. With colourants, antioxidants and preservatives: *EC* *additives*.

Typical analysis
Protein 28%, oils and fats 12.0%, ash 7.5%, fibre 2.5%. Vitamins/minerals - vitamin A 1500iu/kg, vitamin D3 100iu/kg, vitamin E 75mg/kg, copper (as Cupric Sulphate) 19mg/kg.

Tesco premium complete dog food with chicken & vegetables

Ingredients
Cereals, meat and animal derivatives (minimum 4% chicken in the chicken components and minimum 4% fresh meat in the semi moist component), vegetable protein extracts, derivatives of vegetable origin (minimum 1% charcoal in the heart shaped component), oils and fats, minerals, various sugars, minerals yeasts, vegetables (minimum 4% vegetables in the vegetable component). With antioxidants (*BHA* *BHT*), colourants, and preservatives: EC additives (E153, E171, E155, E142, E172, E124, E202).

Typical analysis

Protein 23%, oils and fats 10%, ash 6.5%, fibre 3.0%. Vitamins/minerals - vitamin A 12000iu/kg, vitamin D3 1200iu/kg, vitamin E 60mg/kg, copper (as Cupric Sulphate) 15mg/kg.

It is not hard to use google and find out what the exact ingredients of the food you want to give your puppy are. Note the bold bits. Potentially cancer causing. Will you please stop ignoring those of us who are saying stuff you don't want to hear and actually do some research? Supermarket food is BAD for your dog. It is *cheap* crap.


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> It is not hard to use google and find out what the exact ingredients of the food you want to give your puppy are. Note the bold bits. Potentially cancer causing. Will you please stop ignoring those of us who are saying stuff you don't want to hear and actually do some research? Supermarket food is BAD for your dog. It is *cheap* crap.


 im not ignoring anyone. i have just had so many replies at once and im not the best person in the world with reading and writing im afraid. i cane to this website for advice which is what everyone has replied with so im just trying to take it all in, do some research and take notes in my own time ( which is slower than everyone else). i want whats best for my dogs hense this topic... cheers


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Switching between one food and another is guaranteed to make the poor ruddy dog ill!
> 
> Bakers contains carciogens (cancer causing ingredients). Nice.
> 
> ...


Glad you mentioned that again - for those of you who do not know Bakers cannot be stored next to horsefeed due to the risk of contamination - cannot remember exactly why but something to do with getting into the human food chain - perhaps you can remind us because i have forgotton


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/189896-dry-dog-food-index.html

This thread and the equivalent wet food thread were recently made for people who are trying to find a decent food. Green= good, amber=fair, red=avoid, awful. Tesco and other supermarket food all=red, bad.

Please avoid anything with wording such as permitted additives, EC additives, BHA, BHT. They can cause cancer.


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

so would you suggest feeding dry and wet food rather that an all in one "complete" dry food? thanks


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

DT said:


> Glad you mentioned that again - for those of you who do not know Bakers cannot be stored next to horsefeed due to the risk of contamination - cannot remember exactly why but something to do with getting into the human food chain - perhaps you can remind us because i have forgotton


Becasue it contains BHT and BHA, the cancer causing stuff. Horses are often sold to the meat man and transported to the continent to be made into sausages then eaten by humans. Voilà!

I'm appalled that it is still sold/made.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

peanut651 said:


> so would you suggest feeding dry and wet food rather that an all in one "complete" dry food? thanks


No, I would suggest feeding whatever is good, dry, wet, mix, whatever you want. Just stay away from the rubbish and change over very gradually or the dog will be sick.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Everyone has their favourites when it comes to dog-food 
I feed my three border collies 'Skinners field and trial maintenance' (recommended by the rescue where I got my third dog from)

It only costs me £16 for a 15kg sack , and that will last all three of my dogs one month .... they have one full mug each at breakfast and another full mug each at tea-time

I buy it online where they deliver free if you buy 2 sacks together :thumbup:


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

Just to add my experience with BC's

I had a working BC with an extremely delicate digestion - not good in a working dog!

Luckily he settled on Skinners Field & Trial Salmon and Rice. However due to him being so delicate I had to start on 3 tiny meals daily and increase quantities gradually. He is now on one meal a day and thriving 


I really hope you find a food to suit your dog as it is a minefield where nutrition is concerned but lots of hepful advice on this forum


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

thanks for the help guys. and yeh it seems like a mine field. never thought so much of dog food before i joined here last night lol


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

BCs are notorious for having sensitive stomachs - I have two that have hence why I swopped onto raw but dont worry I am not about to ram this down your throat. 

Skinners field & trial has seen some great results or CSJ is another one that alot of BC owners do well with.


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

I will not join the oxymoron of "good dry food" debate....








....but if you found that chicken and rice provided a solid stool.​
Repeat the fast, which BTW *was wise and to be encouraged*, and keep the dog on chicken/rice? Will you consider a BARF diet?

From reading your OP, if the dog had a misc other viral of bacterial infection causing the diarrhoea keeping him on a plain chicken/rice diet for a week or two might clear it. Assuming that you have not had stool samples screened for infection?


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

I have a collie who can't have any grains/cereals or beef. It will be a matter of finding what triggers his runny poo. You could try some Applaws dry complete puppy from [email protected] and some supermarkets - not cheap though. Or try fish for dogs.


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

thanks for all the help guys. it is deffinetly the bakers biscuits that gave him the runs. he's alot better today with alot more energy. hes spent all day trying to round my kids up in the garden. got some skinners coming on the way soon by mail so gonna keep him on boiled chicken and rice until it arrives so im not changing between biscuits. gonna ween my other collie shep onto the skinners aswell so im not buying two different foods everytime


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## gtatler (Oct 5, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Bakers contains carciogens (cancer causing ingredients). Nice.


Where on earth does that information come from ?

My experience is with a nine and a half year old Jack Russell bitch who has had Bakers since she was a puppy. Suddenly developed stomach problems. We were advised to reduce the Bakers and substitute mixer biscuits. Now she won't touch Bakers at all - and she is much healthier.

See my post at http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/39104-gassy-dog-stomach-cramps.html for more details of treatment.


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## lisaloo1 (Aug 8, 2011)

peanut651 said:


> thanks for the help guys. and yeh it seems like a mine field. never thought so much of dog food before i joined here last night lol


I was exactly the same as you when i joined, I didn't have a clue about dog foods, thankfully I have learned so much about it from this forum and my 17 week old puppy is doing great, it certainly is a mind field where dog food is concerned but the feeding guides are brilliant, also some of the foods might be expensive to buy but work out cheaper because you feed them less, good luck with your new puppy


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

gtatler said:


> Where on earth does that information come from ?


In relation to Bakers containing cancer causing ingredients. It's listed as "EC permitted additives and colourings" in the ingredients.

In this case EC permitted additives could and probably do include one or more of the three synthetic antioxidants which are commonly used by pet food manufacturers:

E320 - BHA - Butylatedhydroyanilose
E321 - BHT - Butylatedhydroyutoluen
E324 - Ethoxyquin

These are very good at their job but they are associated with several health problems (including cancer)

Far better on an ingredient list are mixed tocopherols/vitamin C and rosemary extract which does the same thing.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Goblin said:


> In relation to Bakers containing cancer causing ingredients. It's listed as "EC permitted additives and colourings" in the ingredients.
> 
> In this case EC permitted additives could and probably do include one or more of the three synthetic antioxidants which are commonly used by pet food manufacturers:
> 
> ...


Rep coming at you. You explain better than me.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I would also like to point out that each dog is an individual and just because X dog did well on a certain brand doesnt mean that Y and Z dog will do well on it also.

I also agree about the Bakers. My ex has a BC which apparently is very fussy with it's food. He feeds it Bakers and Pedigree wet tins and then phones me up asking why his dog has the runs and what he can do about it. Did I not teach him anything in those 5 years? :mad2:


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

My old boy never did very well on commercial foods - always seemed hungry and his weight would fluctuate - so we used to cook beef mince, carrots, peas and potatoes all together in the pressure cooker to make a very natural stew and he loved it - didnt need to eat as much for him to be satisfied! £4 for the mince, £.80p for carrots, £1 for a bag of peas and £2 for a bag of potatoes = £7.80 for about 3 weeks food! Bargain! No additives, artificial colours or flavourings and I could eat it myself too!

He also had a craving for Irish soda bread - never did he have an upset tummy.


OMG Ive just realised how much I miss him :'(
Sorry x


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## always1more (Sep 24, 2011)

Ahh ******, I've just read up here and I've been giving my 9 week old Bakers puppy dry food.

I have read the sticky about dry food and the best to buy (great post) but I can't see anything for puppy's.

Please could somebody recommend dry food for our pup, I was thinking of changing her to Beta Puppy Food, what's you're thoughts about Beta plz ?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

always1more said:


> Ahh ******, I've just read up here and I've been giving my 9 week old Bakers puppy dry food.
> 
> I have read the sticky about dry food and the best to buy (great post) but I can't see anything for puppy's.
> 
> Please could somebody recommend dry food for our pup, I was thinking of changing her to Beta Puppy Food, what's you're thoughts about Beta plz ?


Puppies don't need puppy food - it's a money making gimmick, adult food is just fine  Beta isn't much better than Bakers I'm afraid.


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## always1more (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanx for the reply SixStar, OK shall I get some Wainwrights then from petsathome ?


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

hes all fine now. has been for a while now as ive got them both on skinners food. he had skitters yesterday but thats coz the cheeky bugger eat my cheesecake:mad2:


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## always1more (Sep 24, 2011)

That's good to hear peanut, they do get us worrying


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

always1more said:


> Thanx for the reply SixStar, OK shall I get some Wainwrights then from petsathome ?


Yes. The trays are vey good. Give raw chicken wings as treats so his teeth are clean. :thumbup:



peanut651 said:


> hes all fine now. has been for a while now as ive got them both on skinners food. he had skitters yesterday but thats coz the cheeky bugger eat my cheesecake:mad2:


Fab that he's on Skinners. :thumbup:


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## always1more (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks very much cinammontoast :thumbup:


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2011)

OP sorry for jumping on your thread

I have a BC lab X and have over the past few weeks changed her to orijen. I had to go back a few steps cause she got runny poos too and take it really slow. Now she is almost fully changed over and is fine.

about the raw chicken wing, many of you will know that she is a gobbler and eats everything. I am worried that if i turned away for a minute she would have the bone down her throat... What are the safety issues for a pup and raw chicken wings or are there any? Also will it upset her digestive system at all/

Thanks
gavs


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