# Can someone confirm I am right please.



## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

A 'friend' of mine (actually OH friends, girlfriend who I am not a fan of but that's a whole other story lol) breeds British Shorthairs.

Speaking to her today she told me her queen is due in a couple of days and she is really hoping for a blue colourpoint male.

Now I am I being really stupid here because from what she has told me there is no way she can get a blue colourpoint.

Mother is solid blue, from complete solid blue lines, both parents solid blue and grandparents etc. so definately does not carry colourpoint.

Father is blue colourpoint, has a blue colourpoint and a cream colourpoint parent.

Am I right in thinking that colourpoint is recessive so all the kittens will be solid blue and there is no way a blue colourpoint can be produced?

I told her this earlier and she has argued that I am wrong, now granted I don't know much about British Shorthairs but I am certain I am right in this case so can someone confirm?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I dont think that ressive is the right word (might be but im tired!) but they BOTH have to carry colourpoint to get a colourpoint otherwise shes dreaming! 

Its like mating a blue eye siamese (colourpoint obviously) to a norwegian forest cat (no colourpoint it them) and hoping for all blue eye kittens! 

never gonna happen!

has she bred for long?

oh for example my british has colourpoint in her and the stud didnt = no colourpoint kittens, 2 like mum 2 like dad


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm pretty sure solid is dominant over colourpoint so yeah you're right..
Why is anyone breeding if they don't even understand basic coat genetics?

Urgh. People!


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

The crazy thing is i'm told she has bred for years, you would think she knew better!

I was quite shocked actually but she thinks using a colourpoint stud will mean she has 50% colourpoint kittens, erm not unless mum carries it as well you wont!

Glad I wasn't just being stupid.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Think she's gonna be a bit upset with her entire litter of solid blue's then!

She wants to start breeding and showing colourpoints but isn't going to happen with the queen's she has. 

Well she insisted I was wrong so guess she will find out the hard way when the litter is born, just hope she dosn't make the same mistake again thinking it was bad luck and she will get a colourpoint next time.

I agree that no-one should breed without fully understanding the coat patterns and genetics of their breed.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Only if colourpoint is dominant and he carries solid. Which i'm almost certain is wrong lol.
Don't go telling her though, I'm not certain and I can't find much on google specific to British Shorthairs.
Just wait and see what happens, then say "I told you so  "


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Colourpoint is recessive, so unless she is incredibly lucky and Mum carries colourpoint and no-one has spotted this in many generations (highly unlikely!), she cannot get colourpoint kittens.

Liz


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Please let us know her reaction when the kittens arrive!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Chez87 said:


> Please let us know her reaction when the kittens arrive!


Hee hee hee


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

She should get the mother DNA tested for colourpoint and that will tell her whether she carries the gene and whether colourpoint kittens are possible.

Colourpoint is recessive so although unlikely, is not impossible to be carried through generations of solid blue.

The kittens if non-colourpoint will all be colourpoint carriers though.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> She should get the mother DNA tested for colourpoint and that will tell her whether she carries the gene and whether colourpoint kittens are possible.
> 
> Colourpoint is recessive so although unlikely, is not impossible to be carried through generations of solid blue.
> 
> The kittens if non-colourpoint will all be colourpoint carriers though.


Not all, only 1/2 the litter will be carrier the other half will have two solid alleles.


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## myrkari (May 2, 2009)

Stud is colorpoint, therefore all kittens are colorpoint carriers.

Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick and dad isn't the blue colorpoint from the first post.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Solid is a different gene, non agouti ie a.

The father is a colourpoint hence has two copies of the cs gene at the albino locus, he can only give that to his offspring, so all will be colourpoint carriers. (edited : or of course colourpoints if the mother carries the cs gene)


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

ahhhh so ressive is the rught word lol! 
yes i also thought that all would carry.
im thinking using a coulourpoint on my next litter


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## CDC (Jul 20, 2010)

I know nothing about cat breeding but I do get genetics - the mother would have to be a carrier in order to get any chance of the kittens having the recessive colouring. 

Essentially - if solid is B and colourpoint is b...

Mum (BB) + Dad (bb) = only possible of Bb so all carriers but no colourpoints

Mum (Bb) + Dad (bb) = possibles of Bb and bb - so carriers or colourpoints depending on the actual mix you ended up with. 

She needs to get the mum tested before she sets her heart on a colourpoint litter.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> Essentially - if solid is B and colourpoint is b...


The genes are actually C and cs.

so to use your template.
Mum (CC) + Dad (cscs) = only possible of Ccs so all carriers but no colourpoints

Mum (Ccs) + Dad (cscs) = possibles of Ccs and cscs - so carriers or colourpoints depending on the actual mix you ended up with.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Update for everyone today.

7 kittens born a few hours ago, had a text to tell me, no mention of colours.

Was thinking about texting back and asking if any colourpoints but didn't want to rub it in.

Mum is 100% guaranteed NOT to carry colourpoint, there is not a single colourpoint in her pedigree, the breeder dosn't like the pattern and dosn't breed them.

When she finally realises that she was wrong and is open to listening I will explain to her that they will be colourpoint carriers should she still wish to keep one back but it will be an extra generation before getting the blue colourpoint she wants.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

well done mum 7 kits!! 
cant wait ti hear the colours!!!


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Awww see if you can ask for photos of them, that's not so obvious 

Well done to mum


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Awww see if you can ask for photos of them, that's not so obvious
> 
> Well done to mum


Good idea 

Going to be popping round in the next week or so anyway as she has asked to borrow my kitten pen (you would think she would have one already) as the dog won't leave mum and babies alone.

Starting to see why I don't like the woman yet lol?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cat_Crazy said:


> Good idea
> 
> Going to be popping round in the next week or so anyway as she has asked to borrow my kitten pen (you would think she would have one already) as the dog won't leave mum and babies alone.
> 
> Starting to see why I don't like the woman yet lol?


how hard is it to shut a door? 

that would keep the dog away from mum!!


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Cat_Crazy said:


> Good idea
> 
> Going to be popping round in the next week or so anyway as she has asked to borrow my kitten pen (you would think she would have one already) as the dog won't leave mum and babies alone.
> 
> Starting to see why I don't like the woman yet lol?


And she's been breeding for years?? : Yeah I understand now!

Hope she's at least got a waiting list for the kittens?


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Been to visit the kittens 

They are as expected ALL blue solid, one looks quite light compared to the others so not sure if will end up a different colour or if it will darken over time but no colourpoints there at all.

She showed them to me and didn't mention the colours at all so guessing she now realises she was wrong.

Oh and no waiting list, she told me she is advertising them next week.

The dog is a mastiff and putting nicely it's un-trained and out of control, lovely temprement but likes to open doors, chew walls etc. 

This is first litter she has had with the dog there but you would think being an 'experianced' breeder she would have thought of this earlier.

Anyway have taken the pen to her so she has something to use now.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

No waiting list? Sounds like she's just in it for the money :S 

Oh well hope the kittens get nice forever homes 

Lol most people don't train their dogs anyway, hate people who baby them and let them get away with murder!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

To be honest she doesn't need a waiting list with a litter of blue kittens. They'll all get snapped up really quickly. They're still the most popular colour, I've had so many enquiries about blues recently and I don't even have any kittens at the moment. 

I know lots of breeders who don't have waiting lists, doesn't mean they're in it for the money, they're just not necessary.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think that is one of the differences between dog and cat breeding.

Waiting lists are not the norm in cat breeding and do not in any way differentiate a good and bad breeder.

In fact in *some* cases with large waiting lists, it can be a sign of more commercially orientated breeder.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dont think waiting lists are a big thing with cat breeders, not many people want to actually wait to see IF mum mated, if she didnt then go again, etc could take months, then its 9weeks till birth then 3months till they can go to new homes, ive got people waiting, but most drop out, i dont blame them!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I've heard of some breeders _charging people to be on a waiting list_, which I find absurd.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

messyhearts said:


> I've heard of some breeders _charging people to be on a waiting list_, which I find absurd.


o.m.g :eek6:


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