# 18 week old puppy pooing to be naughty



## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

I have a 18 week old puppy who is paper trained however, he feels the need to poo in random places in the house while we are out.

He does poo outside and always wee's on paper.

Any advice on why he does this and how we can stop it ?

Thanks


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

What do yuo do if he toilets off the paper when you are there, and what do you do if you come back to poos?


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

He doesn't do it off the paper when we are in.

If we come back to it we put his nose in it and tell him 'no' and then take him to the paper.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

MarkySwan said:


> He doesn't do it off the paper when we are in.
> 
> If we come back to it we put his nose in it and tell him 'no' and then take him to the paper.


Your puppy isn't being naughty. Dogs are amoral. They do not have any sense of right or wrong. They do know what is 'safe' and what is 'dangerous'. Dogs also only undertsand they are being praised, rewarded or told off for what they are doing at that exact time.

So, puppy poo's on the paper when you are there (I am assuming to start with he did poo off the paper and got the same telling off and nose rubbed in it?) because that is the 'safe' place to go when you are in. When you are out, it is 'safe' to go poo anywhere. When you come back, puppy gets told off and his nose rubbe din poo. So puppy starts to think, you coming back is bad, and I expect he is pretty quickly learning to act all submissive as if he knows he has done something 'wrong', when in actual fact he is sucking up to you as he knows you will be cross when you come back, but he doesn't know what for.

Your puppy doesn't understand that he is being told off for pooing in the house, just that when you get back you're cross with him. He will soon start to dread you coming home, which I am pretty sure you don't want?

Possible solutions are to confine puppy to a smaller area that is easy to clean when you go out, or crate train him as he will be very reluctant to toilet in his bed at all. Never tell him off if he toilets in the house, he is too young to be fully toilet trained yet. Instead, tell yourself off for not supervising him properly , and then reward your puppy very well when he does toilet outside.

The best and quickest way to toilet train a puppy is to supervise it 100% of the time, and aim to never let him toilet in the 'wrong' place. reward him generously when he does the 'right' thing.

A good book that has an excellent section on 'errorless house training' is Ian Dunbar's 'Before and After You Get Your Puppy'. Gwen Baileys' 'The Perfect Puppy' is also very good. Both from Amazon.


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

normally leave him in the kitchen overnight.. and he only does it on the paper at night.. 


just seems very off that during the day he will wee on the paper and then poo elsewhere..


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

MarkySwan said:


> normally leave him in the kitchen overnight.. and he only does it on the paper at night..
> 
> just seems very off that during the day he will wee on the paper and then poo elsewhere..


Puppy's do things that seem odd to us. You shouldn't expect him to be toilet trained fully until around 6-8 months, maybe older.

Our 16 week old pup is pretty much toilet trained, but if I get complacent and the back door is closed, she might have the odd accident on the carpet. At night she will be clean/dry all night if in her crate, but will wee (and poo if she needs to!) on the kitchen floor if I don't crate her. Yet, during the day she knows the kitchen floor isn't for toileting, and will NEVER go there. She'll be fine once she's iolder though, just like the others.


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## englishrose943 (Feb 7, 2008)

jackson said:


> Your puppy isn't being naughty. Dogs are amoral. They do not have any sense of right or wrong. They do know what is 'safe' and what is 'dangerous'. Dogs also only undertsand they are being praised, rewarded or told off for what they are doing at that exact time.
> 
> So, puppy poo's on the paper when you are there (I am assuming to start with he did poo off the paper and got the same telling off and nose rubbed in it?) because that is the 'safe' place to go when you are in. When you are out, it is 'safe' to go poo anywhere. When you come back, puppy gets told off and his nose rubbe din poo. So puppy starts to think, you coming back is bad, and I expect he is pretty quickly learning to act all submissive as if he knows he has done something 'wrong', when in actual fact he is sucking up to you as he knows you will be cross when you come back, but he doesn't know what for.
> 
> ...


Very well put can i say. Mark at the end of the day your 16 wk old puppy is still a baby,still learning and isnt totally house trained. People buy puppys and think they are fully trained on paper and thats not the case. Like Jackson says it can take up to them being 6 months old. When buying puppys i know they look cute and everything but they do need a lot of training and this bit is usually not thought about.


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

englishrose943 said:


> Very well put can i say. Mark at the end of the day your 16 wk old puppy is still a baby,still learning and isnt totally house trained. People buy puppys and think they are fully trained on paper and thats not the case. Like Jackson says it can take up to them being 6 months old. When buying puppys i know they look cute and everything but they do need a lot of training and this bit is usually not thought about.


i have a 2 and half year old dog as well.. hes fully house trained.. i had my previous dog for 12 years before she unfortunaly died.. ive trained dogs for relatives who dont have the patience ..

puppys are cute and i fully understand the process involved.. so please dont try and antagonise me.

The only reason ive asked is its something ive never come acorss before.. he knows not to do it in the house and to use his paper.. but hes not doing.. didnt know if i was missing something..

just to note.. Nobby was fully house trained by 12 weeks... house trained meaning he always used the paper.. even if he got caught short..

Jack (the puppy) was paper trained and has been using the paper uptil last week.. this week hes gone backwards and when no ones around tried to play hide the poo..


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## englishrose943 (Feb 7, 2008)

MarkySwan said:


> i have a 2 and half year old dog as well.. hes fully house trained.. i had my previous dog for 12 years before she unfortunaly died.. ive trained dogs for relatives who dont have the patience ..
> 
> puppys are cute and i fully understand the process involved.. so please dont try and antagonise me.
> 
> ...


I wasnt having a go at you personally. Its swings and roundabouts with pups they are all still learning till 6 months old. Are all your dogs the same breed?


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

yup always had collies..

tend to find most people seem to have a go at me young lad with dogs n all 

i do appriciate the advice thanks


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## englishrose943 (Feb 7, 2008)

MarkySwan said:


> yup always had collies..
> 
> tend to find most people seem to have a go at me young lad with dogs n all
> 
> i do appriciate the advice thanks


Your welcome, we are all still leaning different things about our animals and allhave concerns. Sorry if you thought i was having a go but i wasnt.Mine are Shih Tzus and they are slow house trainers, thats why i asked if they were different breeds.


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## sleeptalker (Apr 28, 2008)

hi, im no expert, but your pup could be doing it for the attention he is receiving when you get home, despite the fact that it is negative. maybe you should just ignore him until you have cleaned the poos and if there are none, fuss him. as for rubbing his nose in it, i heard that this could be dangerous in case there is something in the poo, then the animal inhales it into the lungs and could cause illness, ( not saying your dog has anything in there poo tho)


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

my dogs still sleep in there crate at night..for one reason only, and that is they are both house trained but will poop and wee anywhere in the kitchen when left on their own.i think mine are protesting lol..


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## CANDY (Apr 13, 2008)

trianing at the moment as a dog behaviouist, like i say , not qualified. but it sound like it could be stress related...speration anxiety. when you come home or find the mess, stay calm, move him into another room without saying anything or touching him as he could see this as a reward. when he is in a seperate room, clear the mess, try a detterant spray,i use apple spray with my 8 week pup. then allow him back in the room. never say hes naughty, as dogs do not understand you shouting at them for something they did earlier. they dont put the two together. when you take him in the garden, and he poo's really make a fuss of him and it will not take long for him to work it out. hope this helps 
p.s dogs do not do things to be naughty, they always have a reason for their reactions.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Not having a go at you hun ... but why rub a puppies nose in its own poo ? 
you wouldnt dream of doing that to a human baby , yet thats all this puppy is , a baby

Ignore the fact that it has poo'd if you find any after getting in , just clean it up ... if you see the dog doing it then a sharp ' Bad dog' will let it know its in the wrong ... lots of praise when it goes outside

This worked great for Toffee , he's now 4 1/2 months old and fully housetrained , no mistakes for nearly two weeks now (though I have read that some dogs suddenly revert back to pee'ing and poo'ing everywhere , in which case its back to square one , lol


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

CANDY said:


> trianing at the moment as a dog behaviouist, like i say , not qualified. but it sound like it could be stress related...speration anxiety. when you come home or find the mess, stay calm, move him into another room without saying anything or touching him as he could see this as a reward. when he is in a seperate room, clear the mess, try a detterant spray,i use apple spray with my 8 week pup. then allow him back in the room. never say hes naughty, as dogs do not understand you shouting at them for something they did earlier. they dont put the two together. when you take him in the garden, and he poo's really make a fuss of him and it will not take long for him to work it out. hope this helps
> p.s dogs do not do things to be naughty, they always have a reason for their reactions.


thats what really confuses me though.. having two dogs its not like hes alone.. and he knows where to poo and wee.. ( he does them outside given the chance.. )..i think you might be right with the attention thing though im going to try this approach..

hes taken a liking to removing the leather from my couch this week..


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## CANDY (Apr 13, 2008)

i have two dogs aswel... i have a 2yr old ridgeback and then my 9 week old rottweiler. you have to try and remember, to every action there is a reaction. have you started staying out later, new face in the house , new baby even? something new could be making him stress. he is probably used to a set routine... as dogs need. and if something has changed lately, that could have a reaction . have a think.... it could be the problem.
let us know how you get on .

good luck m8


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## Puppy Love (Jan 10, 2008)

Please don't rub his nose it it.....how awful.

Just clean it up, let him out in the garden and give him big praises/treat when he does poo there.....we all learn at different times - some take longer than others, and still being a baby just give him time.

Im not having a go.....

Puppy Love x


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## MarkySwan (Jun 5, 2008)

Puppy Love said:


> Please don't rub his nose it it.....how awful.
> 
> Just clean it up, let him out in the garden and give him big praises/treat when he does poo there.....we all learn at different times - some take longer than others, and still being a baby just give him time.
> 
> ...


 should point out at this point.. rubbing his nose in.. isnt physcially rubbing his nose in.. i mean pointing him at it.. so he knows what im refering to..

to actually shove him into it and get it on him.. heck no..

hes not done it for a few days now.. although he did decide the carpet in the hall wasnt to his taste and pulled it up...


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

MarkySwan said:


> should point out at this point.. rubbing his nose in.. isnt physcially rubbing his nose in.. i mean pointing him at it.. so he knows what im refering to..


The point is, he doesn't know what you're referring to and won't do. At the point you 'pur his nose in it' he will only be aware that there is a poo on the floor he is being pointed at and you're angry. He won't understand he is being told off for pooing when you weren't there. At best, he'll end up learning to eat his poo, so it isn't there for you to find when you get back.


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## chris harding (May 29, 2008)

guess i am really lucky. my mix pup is 15 weeks. will wee if left in the kitchen alone for a length of time. but will never poo! . is completely clean if left in her crate! and at night sleeps on the foot of my bed, clean and dry! First time i have been that lucky. I never make a fuss unless i actually catch her squatting. Must be hard at that age. I have however had pups who were very slow. and elderly dogs who just couldnt help it.x


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2008)

Like jackson pointed out... dogs and puppies work on the now. They do not know they are being told off about something that happened hours ago or even 20 minutes ago... and even by showing them the poo, chewed shoes or wee puddle wont make them know either.

I had a friend many years ago (who I lived with for a few months) they bought a jack russell puppy, when they brought her home she was about 8 weeks old. She was shut in a tiny bathroom for the first few weeks with hardly any attention, so therefore was just pooing wherever she felt like. They then decided to let her roam the house and obviously she had messes on the floor, they used to scold her and shout at her and in the end I noticed she started eating her poo. This is often due to trying to hide the evidence. Obviously I didn't like any of this, but it was not my house or dog to say anything.

I'm sure you have had enough advice already and know enough as you have dogs.

Just try to remember that dogs need to be corrected/rewarded there and then, not after it's be done, otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

I should also imagine it can be harder to house train a pup completely/quicker when you leave it on it's own for so many hours a day while you're at work, as you're not there to keep an eye on mistakes that could happen or there to reward good behaviour.

Good luck


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