# Too many kittens



## Cat Lover Chris (Jan 11, 2009)

There was recently an article in one of the national papers and in the London Evening News regarding a point that has been discussed many many times on this forum, i.e. too many kittens being born.

The CPL places are reported as overflowing with cats and kittens.

I think, being responsible pet owners, we should all stop breeding any more kittens for 2 or 3 years, so that the numbers in CPL sanctuaries etc can reduce to a more acceptable levels.

That includes BYB's as well as professional breeders.

If the same sensible attitude is taken by dog owners as well, then the numbers of animals being put down un-necssarilly by vets will diminish.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

i think this is a great idea in theory, but breeders rely on the little profit they make from breeding...but there is certainly something to this plan! 

and byb should cut it out altogether - i for one will never get another cat unless it's from a certified breeder. i want a MC or Bengal next. then again there are ragdolls to think about...and siamese....oh then there's persians.....lol


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sounds great in theory, but what 'byb' or people who let their cat out for litters and ££ is going to stop? Answer: none of them! 

Its not the same with cats as it is dogs, they would all have to be neutered as you cant leave them un-neutered as they can get many problems and die from them, cant leave them to call, so after 3 years...you dont have any cats to breed from? 

Maybe we should bring in neuter laws and stop people letting their cats outside to breed & stop BYB, focusing on that, rather than good breeders, who normally neuter before their kittens go to new homse anyway, and only have 1-3 litters with a cat.

Great idea, but who police's it? Most of the people who breed for ££ or have litters from outside cats, just dont care.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

But I don't think it's just the breeding, we need to change attitudes to pet ownership & move away from such a 'throw away society'. 

People seem to get rid of their cats/dogs when the slightest problem arises & they become 'too much hassle' then get another one instead


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Good idea - but . . .a) would never be adhered too and b) after three years cats would then be on the road to extinction as you can't leave a cat to call so would all have to be neutered. In another 20 years cats would then be extinct.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

and then you'll get people saying ''nobody can tell me i HAVE to neuter my cat - it's up to me'' (the irresponsible ones at least!)

i think in an ideal world, there would only be enough cats to handle, so many don't get pts, neglected or deserted or ill without proper owners.....if only it were true


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Actually, being contentious, maybe we should just stop humans breeding instead - that would help the world immensely.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Its not the same with cats as it is dogs, they would all have to be neutered as you cant leave them un-neutered as they can get many problems and die from them, cant leave them to call, so after 3 years...you dont have any cats to breed from?


True. Maybe it's a ploy to rid the country of pedigree breeds - because that would be the result  There are those who believe people who want a particular breed would go and get a rescue moggy if they couldn't have their preferred breed. They wouldn't and they don't. Whenever I have a buyer who wants two kittens I often suggest they have one of mine and a rescue. Never succeeded in persuading a single person. They are after the particular character traits of their chosen breed.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> True. Maybe it's a ploy to rid the country of pedigree breeds - because that would be the result  There are those who believe people who want a particular breed would go and get a rescue moggy if they couldn't have their preferred breed. They wouldn't and they don't. Whenever I have a buyer who wants two kittens I often suggest they have one of mine and a rescue. Never succeeded in persuading a single person. They are after the particular character traits of their chosen breed.


So true - I always suggest getting a rescue cat to go with their new purchase - they either want to wait for the next litter or want a litter mate.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

spid said:


> So true - I always suggest getting a rescue cat to go with their new purchase - they either want to wait for the next litter or want a litter mate.


But... I can understand the appeal of having a kitten so I don;t blame people for being drawn to them. Despite having owned several cats over the years I've only ever had 2 kittens (1 rescue) & will probably never have another as I will always have older rescues from now on knowing what I do.

Same with dogs, I would LOVE a puppy & don't think any less of people that buy one (ethical breeder obviously!) at all but I will always get an older rescue dog to join our family simply because I am aware of how many do need homes.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Cat Lover Chris said:


> There was recently an article in one of the national papers and in the London Evening News regarding a point that has been discussed many many times on this forum, i.e. too many kittens being born.
> 
> The CPL places are reported as overflowing with cats and kittens.
> 
> ...


2 to 3 years is a long time not to breed, and what are we too do with Our Queens in the meantime or Our Studs for that matter. Not Breeding Our Queens for such a prolonged time will be very detrimental to them. 

And it will not entirely solve the issue, say we do stop breeding, but irresponsible Pets owners continue to let their females roam, un-spayed their is still going to be Kittens filling up centres, not to mention the many semi-ferral Kittens the Rspc rescue every year from Cats that have for whatever reason turned to living on the street.

Whilst I think your intentions are honourable, and I do not deny there is a problem, I personally think the idea to stop breeding my Queens and Studs is very unrealistic.

The implications and ramifications of such an action you propose are not very well thought out by yourself. If you saying we as breeders should all just suddenly stop breeding for the 2-3 years, to minimise the risk to our Queens (Pyometra), you would in theory have to spay to prevent the Queen from harm, yes you could use contraception, but for that duration of time who knows what the potential risks or knock on effects would be, Contraception in Cats is mainly used short term for a season you wish to miss, to take the edge off your Queens cycle.

So if we all collectively agree to stop breeding, a whole generation or two of our chosen breeds would vanish and cease to be of use, what do you think would happen to the gene pool of that breed especially if it is a less common breed. By diluting the gene pool we would risk losing breeds, there would be a higher risk of genetic disorders due to decreased gene pools as it would force breeders to then breed from closely related pairings.

I am sorry but to just stop breeding for 2 -3 years to me is not the answer to the problem  I personally do not think I should be held accountable for other irresponsable owners, I personally find my Kittens good homes, and have a rehoming clause, should they feel they no longer can look after the Kitten or Cat, I also have a neutering clause for all Pet Kittens. I know alot of breeders with similar clauses, so why should myself or them be penalised for other irresponsable owners.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

The problem is not responsible reputable breeders but BYB, Kitten Farms and irresponsible moggy owners ..... CPL etc are full of MOGGY kittens every spring - whole litters and mums etc etc .......

The cause of that issue is not your responsible ped breeders so them stopping brreeding won't solve it.

Education re spey and neutering is required on a national scale


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I think vets, and especially rescues, need to get pro-active with early neutering.
It needs to become the norm that when a new owner ( well, IF a new owner! ) brings a kitten in for it's first shots that the neuter is arranged and paid for right then and there to be carried out asap.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

I agree with the above. My Vet told me that no Vets early neuter in the UK, it is just something that happens in the USA. I think it is going to be a long journey to persuade them to early neuter and I am very rural so the other Vets anywhere near won't neuter before 5 months or 2kg either. 

My Vet is very forward thinking in other areas so I am going to go back armed with research, but I really don't want them practising the technique on my kits, especially as Siamese can have issues with anaesthetics. 

I wonder if there is a database of pro early neuter Vets who have trained and are experienced, then maybe my Vets could watch the procedure first - or I may be being very naive - ignorance is bliss!!! 

I'm not going to give up as they are a good practice and I think 6 month neutering is tradition rather than for any good reason. I know of litters conceived by 5 month old boys and several of my girls have called at 5 months, so 6 months seems too late to neuter IMO.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I honestly don't think pedigree breeders are the problem. The welfare organisation that I volunteer with has a database which they use to send around emails for cats needing homes. Mostly these are kittens from unwanted litters. Occasionally, homes for pedigrees are sought, usually due to the death of the owner. I have tested this: phoned a week after the ad for the unwanted mogs = none have been adopted yet. Phoned a week after the pedigrees were advertised = rehomed within 24 hours of the ad being issued. Even elderly pedigrees find homes. Even on this forum, I have noticed that if a pedigree seeks a home, dozens of users offer to help. For a mog...not so many. I have noticed amongst a number of my friends that profess to be cat lovers and pro-cat welfare, that when looking for a cat, the following criteria have to be met:

Pedigree or at least a cross breed (e.g. ragdoll X burmese)
Must be a kitten

Not once is the primary motivation just to give a home to an unwanted cat. I believe the crux of the problem is people that are just too lazy, stingy, stupid or couldn't-be-ar3ed to neuter their pets.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

<snip>
i think this is a great idea in theory, but breeders rely on the little profit they make from breeding...but there is certainly something to this plan! 
<snip>
Um, what profit would that be? If I was relying on profit, I'd currently be destitute and unable even to afford a cardboard box to live in! We don't breed for profit, and we count ourselves lucky if we even manage to break even. Currently, I'm not lucky, and I doubt many others are either.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I have just bought a pedigree kitten. I had Billy and Freddie who were litter mates and lost Freddie last year (result of a bump with a car we think). Billy now just 2 has been confined to the house/garden for his own safety and my peace of mind. Billy is such a gentle dopey sort of cat that any companion had
to be kind and gentle too. I read up on breeds and decided on a Birman and thought a kitten would be easier to introduce (I have 4 dogs and an ancient cat also :biggrin If I didnt have other pets to consider I would have been happy to have an older cat. I adopted a 4 year old ex puppy farm breeder cavalier 4 years ago, but I think dogs are easier to integrate than cats.
I just wanted to try and make sure Billy wouldnt be bullied but felt he needed a friend and his life had been somewhat restricted.


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## catlover0581 (Jan 14, 2012)

carly87 said:


> <snip>
> i think this is a great idea in theory, but breeders rely on the little profit they make from breeding...but there is certainly something to this plan!
> <snip>
> Um, what profit would that be? If I was relying on profit, I'd currently be destitute and unable even to afford a cardboard box to live in! We don't breed for profit, and we count ourselves lucky if we even manage to break even. Currently, I'm not lucky, and I doubt many others are either.


that's why i said little profit  i know you don't do it to earn thousands - if there were thousands in it more people would become 'real breeders'


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

rose said:


> I have just bought a pedigree kitten. I had Billy and Freddie who were litter mates and lost Freddie last year (result of a bump with a car we think). Billy now just 2 has been confined to the house/garden for his own safety and my peace of mind. Billy is such a gentle dopey sort of cat that any companion had
> to be kind and gentle too. I read up on breeds and decided on a Birman and thought a kitten would be easier to introduce (I have 4 dogs and an ancient cat also :biggrin If I didnt have other pets to consider I would have been happy to have an older cat. I adopted a 4 year old ex puppy farm breeder cavalier 4 years ago, but I think dogs are easier to integrate than cats.
> I just wanted to try and make sure Billy wouldnt be bullied but felt he needed a friend and his life had been somewhat restricted.


This is the same reason I bought my first (pedigree) cat. I wanted to be sure it was well socialised to help integration. Glad I did as they, cats and dog, get along brilliantly. :thumbup1:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> <snip>
> Must be a kitten
> <snip>


Kittens are far easier to settle in with older cats so for those of us who have cats with a middle-aged mentality two kittens are a far better choice than another older cat. But, especially for older people who don't have a cat, an older cat is perfect.

The kittens I fostered last year all had homes before I returned them to the rescue at 8 weeks, and I had sent some lovely photos of them which I gather really helped. I gather the ones that are hardest to home are the black ones, and the black kitten went with one of it's litter mates. This is the prettiest one when she was 5 days old:


Tortie Kitten by Sal Woo, on Flickr


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

C'mon CHris - you started this thread - how about a comment?


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