# Walking problem



## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

I don't know if this is 'puppy blues' or what but I just don't feel like I'm coping very well with Thea at the moment. I always try to look for the positives in each day but recently I'm just not finding any.

I feel like I'm just hitting a brick wall with everything that I try to do with her. I think the main thing right now is that she won't walk. I spoke to a trainer a couple of weeks ago and she said that it's not overly important for Thea to be out walking at her age (now 16 weeks) but I'm not so sure. She seems to get more hyper/destructive when she doesn't get out for a walk. Thea just will not walk if I or my OH are on our own with her. With both of us together, she is fine. Just one of us and she will get to the end of the drive and refuse to move, either just by sitting down, biting and pulling back on her lead or both. 
I never force her to go anywhere as I know that could do more harm than good. So we sit at the end of the drive and watch the traffic/people/bikes etc go past. I always reward her for sitting calmly but it's been like this now for over 2 weeks and we don't make any progress. It's not always possible for my OH to walk with us, or for me to walk with them, so it means she doesn't get a 'walk' most days.

I do training with her every day - focusing on 'down' and 'stay' atm. We play Find It - where I hide food around the room for her to sniff out, as well as tug games but I don't feel like it's enough. I feel like she just keeps acting up, going hyper and it seems to last for longer each time. I know puppies go for everything they aren't supposed to, and Thea just seems to have taken a liking to anything hard but I think she does have a fair few teeth coming through at the moment. She also does an awful lot of chasing her tail which I don't want her to develop as a compulsive habit but I wonder if it's down to frustration? Or am I reading into things too much and putting human emotions onto her? 

I keep trying to deal with one problem at a time but each seems connected so I figured if I can get the walking sorted then maybe the biting would calm and she might just calm a bit in general. 
I just want a happy, content puppy but I feel like Thea is a million miles away from that.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I wonder if she is anxious on her walks. Loki is king of sitting and not moving his butt it’s very frustrating. Can you drive her out somewhere quieter ? Or different?


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Can you pick her up and carry her past the point where she puts the brakes on? Just go far enough that you have moved away from her little mental block, then pop her down and carry on as normal. 
If she plays 'find it' then do that outside. Start at a point before the spot where she stops, and over a couple of walks just gradually get her finding it around the spot, and then further on. Once you've broken this little habit I expect she'll be fine. You could maybe get a scarf with each of your smells on and swap so when you go out there is the scent of the other one too. Just thinking out loud here.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> I wonder if she is anxious on her walks. Loki is king of sitting and not moving his butt it's very frustrating. Can you drive her out somewhere quieter ? Or different?


Loki being stubborn?! I'd never expect that

We do drive her out to a country park near us but she gets horrifically car sick . It's only a 10 minute drive and by the time we are there she is a puddle of drool so we only do this once in a while atm. Got to try to find a way that she doesn't get car sick


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Sarah H said:


> Can you pick her up and carry her past the point where she puts the brakes on? Just go far enough that you have moved away from her little mental block, then pop her down and carry on as normal.
> If she plays 'find it' then do that outside. Start at a point before the spot where she stops, and over a couple of walks just gradually get her finding it around the spot, and then further on. Once you've broken this little habit I expect she'll be fine. You could maybe get a scarf with each of your smells on and swap so when you go out there is the scent of the other one too. Just thinking out loud here.


I did pick her up on Saturday and move her to the other side of the wall but still no go  I will try again later on and see if that works. 
I hadn't thought of trying Find It outside actually, that's a pretty good point. I will definitely give that a go if picking her up doesn't work. 
I like the scarf idea too but I'm not sure my OH does  thank you for all your suggestions though, I will try again


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Loki being stubborn?! I'd never expect that
> 
> We do drive her out to a country park near us but she gets horrifically car sick . It's only a 10 minute drive and by the time we are there she is a puddle of drool so we only do this once in a while atm. Got to try to find a way that she doesn't get car sick


I know it's quite shocking he's normally so easy going  That's a shame she gets car sick I find new sniffs get him going.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

For car sickness, some people have found giving a ginger biscuit 15 minutes before the trip helps.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> For car sickness, some people have found giving a ginger biscuit 15 minutes before the trip helps.


Ooh I didn't know that! Maybe I'll have to try that one next time we take her out  thank you!


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

So yesterday, I threw a treat down the drive onto the pavement and she chased after it. After that we managed to walk about 600yards before we stopped but that's OK! We met a nice lady who made a big fuss of Thea and she got treats 

Today, I used the same trick and it worked. We made it to the end of the road and around the corner before we stopped! Progress in tiny steps


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## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> I wonder if she is anxious on her walks. Loki is king of sitting and not moving his butt it's very frustrating. Can you drive her out somewhere quieter ? Or different?


Luna couldn't go out for a walk until she was 16 weeks due to breaking her leg. We live near some playing fields (5min drive) she loved them. When I took her to some woods (15min drive) she just wouldnt walk. I cooked with food, sat on a bench while giving her treats but she hated it. 
I stopped going and everyday we went to the playing fields to help her confidence after a couple of weeks she was fine in the woods.
She is still such a baby take it slow and at her pace she will hopefully realise the world isn't scary with just 1 of you


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

puppymadness said:


> Luna couldn't go out for a walk until she was 16 weeks due to breaking her leg. We live near some playing fields (5min drive) she loved them. When I took her to some woods (15min drive) she just wouldnt walk. I cooked with food, sat on a bench while giving her treats but she hated it.
> I stopped going and everyday we went to the playing fields to help her confidence after a couple of weeks she was fine in the woods.
> She is still such a baby take it slow and at her pace she will hopefully realise the world isn't scary with just 1 of you


Oh no, sorry your pup wasn't well. I'm glad she's all sorted now.

I think I do forget that she's only 17 weeks so the world is very scary to her. Hopefully, like you say, with a bit of time and patience she will realise that it's OK and she's just as safe with one of us as she is with both


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## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

ECT said:


> Oh no, sorry your pup wasn't well. I'm glad she's all sorted now.
> 
> I think I do forget that she's only 17 weeks so the world is very scary to her. Hopefully, like you say, with a bit of time and patience she will realise that it's OK and she's just as safe with one of us as she is with both


Thank you  
Even if we walked her by our house when she knew we were on our way back home she pulled to get there almost ran home  I used to think oh no she hates walks and will miss out on so much fun (our last dog loved her walks and the adventures). Luna obviously felt very safe at home, but now she loves walks and new places so don't worry when she feels more confident she will be fine


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

That's what I'm hoping for with Thea. Our last dog used to run out the front door to find out where he was going so I'm hoping once she's a bit older and a bit more confident, she'll start to enjoy walks more.

Thea got spooked on our walk today 
We made it just as far as we did yesterday but she decided that was far enough so after a few minutes of sitting we turned around to come home. As we walked past one of the houses, a dog started barking from inside. I think because Thea couldn't see it, it panicked her more. So that was it - ears back, tail down, long back and pulling like a train all the way home! Felt really sorry for her. I'm just hoping it doesn't freak her out too much


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> Thea got spooked on our walk today
> We made it just as far as we did yesterday but she decided that was far enough so after a few minutes of sitting we turned around to come home. As we walked past one of the houses, a dog started barking from inside. I think because Thea couldn't see it, it panicked her more. So that was it - ears back, tail down, long back and pulling like a train all the way home! Felt really sorry for her. I'm just hoping it doesn't freak her out too much


Remember she's also looking to you for how to react when she's spooked.

My old dog Bates is my best teacher for how to handle Penny, my fearful dog. 
He has the perfect balance between ignoring whatever she's spooking at, and acknowledging her and helping her cope. 
For example I drop something loud in the kitchen. Penny loses it, but Bates doesn't skip a snore from his nap, Penny looks at Bates totally not reacting and has slowly learned that periodically humans make loud noises and it's okay.
On a walk, if Penny sees something that spooks her and is standing there spooking, Bates barrels in, shoves his nose in the scary rock or clump of grass, looks at Penny, and moves on. Penny gets braver about checking the scary thing out.

For me this translates in to 1) acknowledge the scary thing "Oh listen to those barking dogs" while looking in the direction, then 2) offer the support the dog needs. Sometimes that's a jolly-up distraction, sometimes the dog just needs you to stand there and support them while they check something out, sometimes they need to be told what to do because they can't think... Figure out what works in what sorts of situations and offer that. With repetition you become a safe place and they gain more confidence knowing they have you to fall back on.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

You are not alone bumped into my neighbour today with her young lab doing the same wanted to go home. As soon as he saw loki he peeked up and went a bit further. I remember now loki used to get scared without Sox. Do you have any sensible dog friends to walk with (I say sensible because like @O2.0 said sometimes the older dog can help)


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Remember she's also looking to you for how to react when she's spooked.
> 
> My old dog Bates is my best teacher for how to handle Penny, my fearful dog.
> He has the perfect balance between ignoring whatever she's spooking at, and acknowledging her and helping her cope.
> ...


Thank you, I never even thought of it like this.
I tried to calm her and get her to walk with me while talking to her all the time. I guess I just need to find what works for her.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> You are not alone bumped into my neighbour today with her young lab doing the same wanted to go home. As soon as he saw loki he peeked up and went a bit further. I remember now loki used to get scared without Sox. Do you have any sensible dog friends to walk with (I say sensible because like @O2.0 said sometimes the older dog can help)


No, I have no one. I don't know anyone where I am but I'm supposed to be moving house in two weeks (more stress to put Thea through) so maybe a new house and new walking routes will help?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> No, I have no one. I don't know anyone where I am but I'm supposed to be moving house in two weeks (more stress to put Thea through) so maybe a new house and new walking routes will help?


Hopefully I'm sure she will grow out of it the world is a scary place when your a pupper.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Hopefully I'm sure she will grow out of it the world is a scary place when your a pupper.


I think the world is a scary place and I'm an adult! It must be very scary being a pupper.

Didn't get as far today but that's OK. Met the elderly lady from down the road but Thea took great objection to her walker. Growling and small barks until she felt it had been suitably told off


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Today was the first time I took Thea out on my own now we've moved house. We managed an entire walk in the woods! No stopping, no biting the lead, just calm, loose lead walking! 
I think it might have been the traffic causing her to be anxious. Now there is only a very small part of the walk done by a road, she's much happier.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Today was the first time I took Thea out on my own now we've moved house. We managed an entire walk in the woods! No stopping, no biting the lead, just calm, loose lead walking!
> I think it might have been the traffic causing her to be anxious. Now there is only a very small part of the walk done by a road, she's much happier.


Yay well done Thea.


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

ECT said:


> So yesterday, I threw a treat down the drive onto the pavement and she chased after it. After that we managed to walk about 600yards before we stopped but that's OK! We met a nice lady who made a big fuss of Thea and she got treats
> 
> Today, I used the same trick and it worked. We made it to the end of the road and around the corner before we stopped! Progress in tiny steps


I was just about to suggest this, Mylo used to to do exactly the same thing and the only thing that worked with him him was roast chicken. Every time he put the brakes on on i'd say "lets go" and throw the chicken in front of him so that he had to move forward to get it. Worked a treat!


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Thea seems better on walking now we've moved house. It's everything else that's gone to s*** now :Banghead


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thea seems better on walking now we've moved house. It's everything else that's gone to s*** now :Banghead


What's happening? Moving house can be an upheaval.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Oh god where do I start?! Her behaviour has just become so irratic (or that's how it feels). If she's not asleep, she's running at a million miles an hour. She just seems so hyper all the time. I can't do any training with her anymore as she just won't listen, not even for cheese! I say 'come' or 'sit' and she just ignores me. She's the same with my OH too but it's so frustrating. If she gets into something she shouldn't, then she's even worse. And that's inside the house. Outside, I've got no hope. She's so focused on eating/destroying the garden that when I ask her to 'do toilet' before I leave for work she ends up running round the garden like a loon whilst jumping up and snapping/nipping at me. Tonight it took 20minutes for her to do her business before I had to leave because of how silly she was being.

She can clear the safety gate in the house now, so she gets crated when we are out which is somewhat new to her. She used to have access to her crate but could roam the room. Now she can clear the gate, she has to be crated as she's too hyper to be trusted in the front room around glass furniture unsupervised.

I'm sure what she is doing is just being a puppy. She's teething horribly atm (keep finding them on the floor) so that could be playing a part but mostly she just feels out of control. I've been close to tears most of today as I just don't know how to help her and that makes me feel useless


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Oh god where do I start?! Her behaviour has just become so irratic (or that's how it feels). If she's not asleep, she's running at a million miles an hour. She just seems so hyper all the time. I can't do any training with her anymore as she just won't listen, not even for cheese! I say 'come' or 'sit' and she just ignores me. She's the same with my OH too but it's so frustrating. If she gets into something she shouldn't, then she's even worse. And that's inside the house. Outside, I've got no hope. She's so focused on eating/destroying the garden that when I ask her to 'do toilet' before I leave for work she ends up running round the garden like a loon whilst jumping up and snapping/nipping at me. Tonight it took 20minutes for her to do her business before I had to leave because of how silly she was being.
> 
> She can clear the safety gate in the house now, so she gets crated when we are out which is somewhat new to her. She used to have access to her crate but could roam the room. Now she can clear the gate, she has to be crated as she's too hyper to be trusted in the front room around glass furniture unsupervised.
> 
> I'm sure what she is doing is just being a puppy. She's teething horribly atm (keep finding them on the floor) so that could be playing a part but mostly she just feels out of control. I've been close to tears most of today as I just don't know how to help her and that makes me feel useless


Ah bless you I've been there (and still am) with Loki. Loki managed to open doors as a young pup. He settles well in the evening now but used to terrorise me. He would be tearing around the place biting everything. Has she been to any classes ? It might help. How old is she now ? This to will pass.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Thea doesn't seem to know the meaning of settling down. I have tried to teach her the 'settle' command when she gets too much but it has very limited success - usually about 30 seconds of calm before she starts up again.

She's still only 21 weeks so really a baby, and I know this. I just see other people out with their puppies and when they act up, the owner gives a command and they stop. Thea does none of that, she doesn't even acknowledge the command anymore. She's just hell bent on destroying everything, especially if it's wooden or her bed.

She hasn't done any classes due to lockdown but now she's over the age bracket for puppy classes as most I've looked at say she needs to start before 20weeks. Plus, because of my work, I really need one on a Saturday but I can't seem to find one near me that will take her


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

21 weeks is still very much a baby Loki was the same and drove me bonkers. Do you play any sniffy games? He had every enrichment toy on the market because they did give me five minutes peace. 

Good news is once he got a bit older he can settle well at home (outside is another story as you know) I can leave him alone at home free range and sit and watch the TV in the evening without a land shark hanging off me. 

Try not to compare to other puppies probably similar to having a baby boxer a baby Rottie will maybe be more full on. My friend had a lab the same age who was so good. Great recall, chilled ect. Meanwhile loki....


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh bless you, Mylo was a little handful too (still is at times, little so & so). I totally feel your pain, I've ended up tears over the dogs before and spending a morning with Mylo sometimes when he was a baby was like doing 10 rounds with Mike Tyson!

We ended up putting extra high dog gates up for him so he couldn't jump over them and found that tug ropes really helped, especially when he was teething, you can get really thick chunky ones on Amazon for a fraction of the price you get them in the pet shops. We also gave (and still give) him a big hoof that we stuff with goodies and freeze after his meals so it takes him a good bit of time to eat it and the chewing calms him down. He still does have to have enforced naps though because he's awful when he's over tired, grins like the joker off Batman with boogly eyes, the lot and he's just turned two! When this happens he is put in his room with the TV on (David Attenborough on a loop) and left to have a nap for an hour or so and will invariably zonk out after a couple of minutes. 

Thing is, when they're really ramped up they don't listen to anything so commands are no use at all it that situation. Something we still do is go for pavement walks (if Thea is walking better now) when it's quite quiet but we do lots of training as in change direction, sit's at kerbs, crossing the road in zig zags after sit and wait, figure of eight round my legs etc just to keep his mind busy, obvs with oodles of treats and praise. It really wears him and makes him focus more on me and seems to calm him down far more than running about. I also use sniffing games which he loves, I think he was a bloodhound in a previous life! How about putting some duck scent on a drag bag and dragging it around the garden before letting her out so she can follow that scent rather than jumping at you? 

She will calm down eventually and she will tire more quickly using her mind that her body as Rotts are so clever and need mental stimulation but they are HARD work when little. Don't feel bad, it will pass and you will get there you just need enormous amounts of patience and a large quantity of Gin!


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> 21 weeks is still very much a baby Loki was the same and drove me bonkers. Do you play any sniffy games? He had every enrichment toy on the market because they did give me five minutes peace.
> 
> Good news is once he got a bit older he can settle well at home (outside is another story as you know) I can leave him alone at home free range and sit and watch the TV in the evening without a land shark hanging off me.
> 
> Try not to compare to other puppies probably similar to having a baby boxer a baby Rottie will maybe be more full on. My friend had a lab the same age who was so good. Great recall, chilled ect. Meanwhile loki....


With the house move I guess everything has just got a bit knocked out of sync.
She has Kongs, a likimat and a puzzle ball. She's not shown much interest in the kongs when I've given them to her but I'll keep trying. Probably could do with some others to keep her interested so I'll have to check on Amazon. Spent 10minutes throwing kibble all over the garden so she could search for it and she's now zonked on the living room floor.

Loki sounds a lot like Thea! If he can calm down, hopefully she can too.
Thank you for your advice


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Rottsmum said:


> Oh bless you, Mylo was a little handful too (still is at times, little so & so). I totally feel your pain, I've ended up tears over the dogs before and spending a morning with Mylo sometimes when he was a baby was like doing 10 rounds with Mike Tyson!
> 
> We ended up putting extra high dog gates up for him so he couldn't jump over them and found that tug ropes really helped, especially when he was teething, you can get really thick chunky ones on Amazon for a fraction of the price you get them in the pet shops. We also gave (and still give) him a big hoof that we stuff with goodies and freeze after his meals so it takes him a good bit of time to eat it and the chewing calms him down. He still does have to have enforced naps though because he's awful when he's over tired, grins like the joker off Batman with boogly eyes, the lot and he's just turned two! When this happens he is put in his room with the TV on (David Attenborough on a loop) and left to have a nap for an hour or so and will invariably zonk out after a couple of minutes.
> 
> ...


You've read my mind! She's totally like doing rounds with Tyson! If she's not biting, she's destroying. If she's not destroying, she's crying because we've shut her out of the living room and she's pawing to go outside to be destructive (she won't clear the gate if we are in the room). If it's none of them, she's asleep and you're terrified to move incase she wakes! 
She does have a tug rope so we do quite a bit with that, plus rolling the ball in the garden for her to fetch. I might look into getting her a bigger rope. 
I threw a load of kibble all over the garden for her to find, which seems to have tired her out. I think I do need to work on using her mind more. 
Drag bag is something I haven't heard of, I'll look that up.

Yes, I shall try to be more understanding with her. Unfortunately, I can't drink so I'll have to stick to tea! Thank you for your advice


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> With the house move I guess everything has just got a bit knocked out of sync.
> She has Kongs, a likimat and a puzzle ball. She's not shown much interest in the kongs when I've given them to her but I'll keep trying. Probably could do with some others to keep her interested so I'll have to check on Amazon. Spent 10minutes throwing kibble all over the garden so she could search for it and she's now zonked on the living room floor.
> 
> Loki sounds a lot like Thea! If he can calm down, hopefully she can too.
> Thank you for your advice


He's still a horror outside but inside he's great, no separation anxiety, no resource guarding, never damages anything, loves a cuddle.

But that first year I'd have given him to anyone. I remember the day my ex left loki just running around biting me.

I hide high value foods around the garden like ham and cheese he spends ages finding it. Hiding kibble in a cardboard box with paper makes a mess but keeps him busy. I know it sounds silly but google doggy massage.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

That sounds a lot like Thea. I can be in tears and she'll be trying to bite my sleeve/arms/ankles. (sorry you went through a horrible break up)

I hope Thea turns out as well as Loki has. You sound like you've done a great job with him. He's a very lucky doggo to have such a great hooman 

I will definitely look up the doggy massage. I think Thea is getting very stressed out (spent over an hour pacing, in and out, trying to hide things, panting horribly). She calmed before I left for work but when she's like that I have no clue what to do That may be a topic for another thread if it carries on.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Yes I have had many tearful moments with Loki I even told him one day he was going to have to move out  honestly I couldn’t be without him. 

Loki got very stressed on our last holiday (kennelled dogs across the road and a very old building so possibly also a ghost). We did a lot of massage and played doggy calming music from you tube it seemed to work. Obviously if it’s more serious you may need to look at other methods.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Starting to think I really need to start drinking! Either that or send Thea away 

I bellowed at her today. I just lost it. She'd been off on a mission all day, just be as destructive (two toys in the bin and constantly digging up the weed fabric in the garden) and not listening to anything. I was trying to call her away from eating my cactus (yes, eating a cactus) but she wouldn't listen and wouldn't leave so I lost it. After I shouted, she came and sat next to me for all of 20 seconds before starting again.

Im constantly trying to find new food that will keep her interested when training as now when I'm trying, she either just doesn't listen or jumps up to bite me. I can't even re-enforce commands I have taught her as she just finds something else to do.

I don't know where I'm going wrong, why she won't listen or why I'm not interesting enough for her to listen.

Oh and she won't walk with me again. Back to walking part way down the road then refusing. I try to make it interesting by doing stop and sit at curbs and she gets rewarded with cocktail sausage but it's apparently not enough.
I don't enjoy having a puppy anymore and I don't know how to change it :Arghh


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

And breathe  loki sees absolute sense in eating a cactus. A few things that have helped with me and loki who is a terror. And yes I shouted at him once. He got really upset and was trying to appease me by wagging his tail and kissing me, I got upset I’d scared him and cried. He got more upset because I cried. 

Have you tried a clicker Loki responds berth well to the clicker. 

Loki is not a foodie really when he sits his but down I come down to his level and sing or make a silly noise sometimes I skip and he comes along do I look ridiculous? Yes ? But he likes it. Rather than reward with food he gets really excited if I get his belly and again in silly voice tell him he’s a good boy and play with him a ball or tug. That’s his reward. 

How old is she now ? Loki did grow out of trashing the place, digging naturally.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Do you have a word or command etc for her when she does something you don’t want her to do?

How old is she?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

ECT said:


> Loki being stubborn?! I'd never expect that
> 
> We do drive her out to a country park near us but she gets horrifically car sick . It's only a 10 minute drive and by the time we are there she is a puddle of drool so we only do this once in a while atm. Got to try to find a way that she doesn't get car sick


Short daily drives worked for me. Kept the journey less than a minute drive and slowly added to that.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

How old is she? 5, 6 months? That's prime PITA age, they do grow up, I promise!

In the meantime, manage what you can, continue to be consistent with training, and remember to laugh 

I would also work on building his drive for treats. Don't constantly try a different treat getting him to take it, teach him to work for what you're offering. It does take time, but if she's jumping all over you, that's actually a good thing, she wants to interact and you can use that.
The biggest pests are often the most fun to train  


There are a lot of ways you can increase your dog's desire to work for you for food. Some of them I'm personally not comfortable with. There's some crazy stuff out there. I don't think you need to get crazy, just make sure 1) you're not inadvertently poisoning food as a reward (I'll link an article on that), and 2) watch how you deliver the treats. 

Initially very excited dogs are too excited to come to you and take a treat. That's just too much. But setting a treat on the ground that the dog has to sniff out and get can help bring the arousal down, and increase the drive for food. 

On the other end, if the dog is just ho-hum about the treats, figure out what gets him more interested, maybe rooting for them in your hand, maybe tossing the treat, maybe rolling the treat across the floor. Play around with how you give her treats and see which way she responds best. 

Clicker training is one of my favorite ways to build food drive. 
Are you familiar at all with how to clicker train? 
Start with easy stuff like eye contact and a nice hand touch. Reward the hell out of those behaviors. Move your hand around, make her have to jump up to touch your hand, or reach down low... Make it fun and tell her how smart and clever she is. The happier she is about getting it right, the happier she will be about taking treats and it all builds on itself so well


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

ECT said:


> Starting to think I really need to start drinking! Either that or send Thea away
> 
> I bellowed at her today. I just lost it. She'd been off on a mission all day, just be as destructive (two toys in the bin and constantly digging up the weed fabric in the garden) and not listening to anything. I was trying to call her away from eating my cactus (yes, eating a cactus) but she wouldn't listen and wouldn't leave so I lost it. After I shouted, she came and sat next to me for all of 20 seconds before starting again.
> 
> ...


Oh bless you! As I said in a previous post, Gin is an essential ingredient in raising a pup (for you not the dog!) . As she seems to love digging and destruction (been there, had my lawn re turfed twice and had all my plants eaten!) maybe you could get an old kids sandpit and bury stuff in there for her to dig up? Don't feel bad about losing it, it happens to everyone and they are really difficult at this age but it will pass. Have you tried knuckle bones or large raw bones from the butcher to occupy her mouth?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> And breathe  loki sees absolute sense in eating a cactus. A few things that have helped with me and loki who is a terror. And yes I shouted at him once. He got really upset and was trying to appease me by wagging his tail and kissing me, I got upset I'd scared him and cried. He got more upset because I cried.
> 
> Have you tried a clicker Loki responds berth well to the clicker.
> 
> ...


Thea is 23 weeks. I don't know if yesterday was just a really bad day or what. I just seem to be struggling more with how hyper she is being. I get that she's a puppy and she will grow out of it but it's hard to see when she's doing everything she shouldn't (as I'm sure you know with Loki).

I did have a clicker but it either got lost or binned in the house move. I found out yesterday that if she starts to go slow on a walk, if I have a squeaky toy and press it then it gets her attention. This is something I really need as she has picked up the horrible habit of eating poo when she's walking epressed

If I can get Thea to listen, that would be half the battle won but she just doesn't. Even when I try to call her in from the garden, she's too busy being destructive to move. Maybe I'll have to invest in a new clicker


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

5rivers79 said:


> Do you have a word or command etc for her when she does something you don't want her to do?
> 
> How old is she?


I usually just say 'Thea leave it' - always start with her name so she can't ignore that it's for her but she usually just ignores anyway.

She's 23weeks


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Does she know her name? 
Like when you say Thea does her head whip around and she comes to you expecting something marvelous? 

If not, I'd start there  

Have you taught her leave it, or do you just say it and remove her?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> How old is she? 5, 6 months? That's prime PITA age, they do grow up, I promise!
> 
> In the meantime, manage what you can, continue to be consistent with training, and remember to laugh
> 
> ...


I did have a clicker but it's gone missing.

Thea is very happy to take treats from me. If I'm just trying to get her to calm by repeating sit and down then she'll get kibble but if we are trying stay or drop and leave then atm we are on small pieces of cocktail sausage. She seems to like that and will focus for a few repetitions but after that she will start going to bite whenever I ask for something. She will jump up to try and bite my hand or arm so then I ask for a sit and treat that before asking for anything else. I always give lots of praise and fuss but if my hand is on her a second too long then she will go to nip. She doesn't seem to really like being touched a lot unless she's really sleepy.

My sister is coming to visit on Saturday and bring her dog (3yo English bulldog). I'm terrified Thea is going to be the biggest PITA ever, not listen and I don't know how she will react to a dog in her house


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

ECT said:


> I did have a clicker but it's gone missing.
> 
> Thea is very happy to take treats from me. If I'm just trying to get her to calm by repeating sit and down then she'll get kibble but if we are trying stay or drop and leave then atm we are on small pieces of cocktail sausage. She seems to like that and will focus for a few repetitions but after that she will start going to bite whenever I ask for something. She will jump up to try and bite my hand or arm so then I ask for a sit and treat that before asking for anything else. I always give lots of praise and fuss but if my hand is on her a second too long then she will go to nip. She doesn't seem to really like being touched a lot unless she's really sleepy.
> 
> My sister is coming to visit on Saturday and bring her dog (3yo English bulldog). I'm terrified Thea is going to be the biggest PITA ever, not listen and I don't know how she will react to a dog in her house


If you're already scared about a dog coming then it may not be the best of ideas really. Thea will pick up on your fear and may feel your sisters dog is a threat. Has she met other dogs before?

Reading your posts it somewhat comes across that you are expecting way too much of her, she's a pup still and running around destroying things can be part and parcel of that. Are you trying to redirect the destruction on to a toy or a ball or a rag or anything?

It's easier said than done but try and relax, not every day has to be a training session. Don't show her that you're stressed or frustrated. Play with her in the way she wants to play. Could be that when you and your OH are out with her together she feels that you both are much more confident and relaxed so she enjoys the walks more.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thea is 23 weeks. I don't know if yesterday was just a really bad day or what. I just seem to be struggling more with how hyper she is being. I get that she's a puppy and she will grow out of it but it's hard to see when she's doing everything she shouldn't (as I'm sure you know with Loki).
> 
> I did have a clicker but it either got lost or binned in the house move. I found out yesterday that if she starts to go slow on a walk, if I have a squeaky toy and press it then it gets her attention. This is something I really need as she has picked up the horrible habit of eating poo when she's walking epressed
> 
> If I can get Thea to listen, that would be half the battle won but she just doesn't. Even when I try to call her in from the garden, she's too busy being destructive to move. Maybe I'll have to invest in a new clicker


Loki was a terror at that age in everything! He is a menace to society now but at home a joy nice and calm doesn't destroy anything. They do grow up.

Loki responds very well to his clicker. If I get it out he's interested in what I'm doing.

Have you made any progress on car sickness I'm just wondering if you could take her to some different places or a secure field? New sniffs wear loki out and he's less likely to sit his butt,


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Rottsmum said:


> Oh bless you! As I said in a previous post, Gin is an essential ingredient in raising a pup (for you not the dog!) . As she seems to love digging and destruction (been there, had my lawn re turfed twice and had all my plants eaten!) maybe you could get an old kids sandpit and bury stuff in there for her to dig up? Don't feel bad about losing it, it happens to everyone and they are really difficult at this age but it will pass. Have you tried knuckle bones or large raw bones from the butcher to occupy her mouth?


I did run that idea past my OH but it wasnt well received.

No, I haven't tried either of them. It's an idea though. Usually after a walk she will get a braided chew and after her dinner she will go mad with her antler but maybe I need to change it up a bit.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Does she know her name?
> Like when you say Thea does her head whip around and she comes to you expecting something marvelous?
> 
> If not, I'd start there
> ...


I'm going back to basics like you've suggested. Saying her name and getting eye contact before saying good girl and treating her. Been practicing this afternoon and she's already getting a bit more responsive. How would I teach the hand touch thing you suggested? (I don't care how stupid I sound asking these questions, Thea is my first pup so I'm learning as I go)

For 'leave it' she usually gets it said twice and then removed if she doesn't come away. Sometimes you can say it once and she will move away, other times its just far more interesting to stay doing whatever she is doing.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

5rivers79 said:


> If you're already scared about a dog coming then it may not be the best of ideas really. Thea will pick up on your fear and may feel your sisters dog is a threat. Has she met other dogs before?
> 
> Reading your posts it somewhat comes across that you are expecting way too much of her, she's a pup still and running around destroying things can be part and parcel of that. Are you trying to redirect the destruction on to a toy or a ball or a rag or anything?
> 
> It's easier said than done but try and relax, not every day has to be a training session. Don't show her that you're stressed or frustrated. Play with her in the way she wants to play. Could be that when you and your OH are out with her together she feels that you both are much more confident and relaxed so she enjoys the walks more.


Sorry, I probably didn't phrase that too well. My previous dog was super reactive so I could never have other dogs around. I think I just worry Thea will become the same and I'll be back in that position again. She's met other dogs out on walks and she's been great with them all - bouncing around wanting to play (getting her to sit is impossible!)

Yes I think I probably am expecting too much. I just want her to be a happy pup that is responsive and well rounded. Today has been a bit better so I think maybe yesterday was just a horrible day


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Loki was a terror at that age in everything! He is a menace to society now but at home a joy nice and calm doesn't destroy anything. They do grow up.
> 
> Loki responds very well to his clicker. If I get it out he's interested in what I'm doing.
> 
> Have you made any progress on car sickness I'm just wondering if you could take her to some different places or a secure field? New sniffs wear loki out and he's less likely to sit his butt,


Minor progress with the car sickness. She managed to get a mile down the road and looked like she was enjoying it! So baby steps still.

I took her squeaky hippo out with us today. After she sat I offered it to her and she carried it round with no sitting. Maybe it's the way forward for now. It will ruin her street cred though!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Minor progress with the car sickness. She managed to get a mile down the road and looked like she was enjoying it! So baby steps still.
> 
> I took her squeaky hippo out with us today. After she sat I offered it to her and she carried it round with no sitting. Maybe it's the way forward for now. It will ruin her street cred though!


Loki likes to take his squeaky sweetcorn. He also has a real fur tug which he likes to take on walks. They are so sweet with their toys.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> I'm going back to basics like you've suggested. Saying her name and getting eye contact before saying good girl and treating her. Been practicing this afternoon and she's already getting a bit more responsive. How would I teach the hand touch thing you suggested? (I don't care how stupid I sound asking these questions, Thea is my first pup so I'm learning as I go)
> 
> For 'leave it' she usually gets it said twice and then removed if she doesn't come away. Sometimes you can say it once and she will move away, other times its just far more interesting to stay doing whatever she is doing.


For leave it, teach her the cue. This is one good example here. I'm in the process of teaching my swamp rat leave it, I'll try to show some examples this afternoon  





I LOVE for dogs to have a hand touch cue, it's just so versatile and useful, it's one of the first things I teach. 
I use clicker training to teach it - so with a marker, and because it's such an easy cue to teach, it's also a great way to get started with clicker training.

The basic idea is, you present your hand, dog is likely to come look and see what you're showing him, and you mark as soon as she approaches. Eventually (pretty quickly) she will likely touch her muzzle to your palm, and you mark and reward that. Then change the angle and way you present your hand to proof it. 





Once you have a hand touch, you can teach a sustained hand touch, or a chin rest, both of which will be very useful for a bouncy rottie pup


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

ECT said:


> Thea doesn't seem to know the meaning of settling down. I have tried to teach her the 'settle' command when she gets too much but it has very limited success - usually about 30 seconds of calm before she starts up again.
> 
> She's still only 21 weeks so really a baby, and I know this. I just see other people out with their puppies and when they act up, the owner gives a command and they stop. Thea does none of that, she doesn't even acknowledge the command anymore. She's just hell bent on destroying everything, especially if it's wooden or her bed.
> 
> She hasn't done any classes due to lockdown but now she's over the age bracket for puppy classes as most I've looked at say she needs to start before 20weeks. Plus, because of my work, I really need one on a Saturday but I can't seem to find one near me that will take her


Dogs Trust do online classes and have ones that run on a Saturday. They are also starting the usual classes on the 17th of May. I personally found it was the 1:1 trainer that changed everything for me. My oldest dog is no trouble at all but I needed help with my Yorkie. She is no longer anxious and walks perfectly to heel. I just wanted her to be happy but then I kept going until she got silver obedience before lockdown.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> For leave it, teach her the cue. This is one good example here. I'm in the process of teaching my swamp rat leave it, I'll try to show some examples this afternoon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. That's great info. I will definitely start on that. Anything to help with a bouncy pup is welcome atm!

She's slowly picking up on the fact that if I say her name, it means tasty things so today she is a bit more responsive than yesterday. Just a case of practicing it now.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Jobeth said:


> Dogs Trust do online classes and have ones that run on a Saturday. They are also starting the usual classes on the 17th of May. I personally found it was the 1:1 trainer that changed everything for me. My oldest dog is no trouble at all but I needed help with my Yorkie. She is no longer anxious and walks perfectly to heel. I just wanted her to be happy but then I kept going until she got silver obedience before lockdown.


I find it quite hard to follow online classes so I'm using videos atm. That way I can watch them 100 times before I do anything.
I'd love to do a 1:1 session. Sounds like it really helped you out


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Loki likes to take his squeaky sweetcorn. He also has a real fur tug which he likes to take on walks. They are so sweet with their toys.


Loki and Thea sound like they'd get on! They are very cute with their little ways.
Thea destroyed 2 toys this week so now I need to buy more to replace them. Nothing with stuffing though! She eats it :Banghead


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Loki and Thea sound like they'd get on! They are very cute with their little ways.
> Thea destroyed 2 toys this week so now I need to buy more to replace them. Nothing with stuffing though! She eats it :Banghead


They would get on but the trouble they would cause


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My Yorkie didn’t like the group sessions at all. I really liked the 1:1 trainer and she adapted to what I wanted to do as well. We didn’t just stay in the hall but went for walks outside as well.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Well today we have had our first 121 training session. I have been putting into practice all of the suggestions/advice given but things just didn't seem to be getting a whole lot easier. Plus, Thea is super overexcited to meet any dog when out on her walks, even the ones that growl and snap at her from a distance she will still pull towards. But as she is now 6 months old and 30kgs, she can pull me so it's getting harder to hold her down/back. Earlier in the week she actually lept about 3ft in the air when she saw another dog coming near her, she was that excited. I do think that with me being consistent in the training, this would have fizzled out, but I felt I needed that support from a trainer for my own confidence. I don't want to have a dog I'm nervous of walking on my own.
So we got lots of information. First we walked round the block on the harness and lead we normally use so the trainer could see how Thea reacts/pulls. Then Thea was fitted with a Perfect Fit harness and a double clip lead and we tried again - so much easier! Will take some practice with using the front clip as well but I think this is definitely the way forward. Lots of practicing before our next session but I'm a bit more positive that this might help. Hopefully it's also going to start to help her learn how to greet people with all 4 paws on the floor too. Got to try and find ways to help Thea calm down as well as she gets herself too worked up and then will not settle. Even though she is shattered from training, she won't sleep. 

Plus, my mind is made up that I WILL have the best behaved rottie ever! After my sister came to visit, she sent me a link for 'Dogs Behaving (Very) Badly' and suggested I apply with Thea! So now the rest of my family think I have this completely out of control pup compared to her calmer older dog (that has no recall but everyone thinks is amazing ) which will not be the case for much longer. When they get to meet her she will be better than ever


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

At 6 months - it's all fairly normal tbh, not that it helps when you're feeling humiliated and think you own a hell hound but it does improve  At least she doesn't have a 34kg friend, who knows better, joining in :Eggonface:Hilarious

I remember Lily at that age - she refused to settle, had to teach her to settle. She threw tantrums, dragged my rug around, attention barked or anything she could do to try get some attention. Ultimately shut her behind a stair gate, with a long lasting chew or raw meaty bone - chewing is calming. Once she had settled, or whenever I caught her calming resting - I'd calmly give her some cheese. Eventually she got the idea that settling down and being calm is the better option. Don't get me wrong - she can still be a loon but I can still have some control when she's over excited.

Sounds like some impulse control games would really help Thea - it really helped Lily. Control unleashed has some fab games for this, also googling impulse control games for dogs and you'll have plenty to choose from.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

ShibaPup said:


> At 6 months - it's all fairly normal tbh, not that it helps when you're feeling humiliated and think you own a hell hound but it does improve  At least she doesn't have a 34kg friend, who knows better, joining in :Eggonface:Hilarious
> 
> I remember Lily at that age - she refused to settle, had to teach her to settle. She threw tantrums, dragged my rug around, attention barked or anything she could do to try get some attention. Ultimately shut her behind a stair gate, with a long lasting chew or raw meaty bone - chewing is calming. Once she had settled, or whenever I caught her calming resting - I'd calmly give her some cheese. Eventually she got the idea that settling down and being calm is the better option. Don't get me wrong - she can still be a loon but I can still have some control when she's over excited.
> 
> Sounds like some impulse control games would really help Thea - it really helped Lily. Control unleashed has some fab games for this, also googling impulse control games for dogs and you'll have plenty to choose from.


I keep threatening my OH with getting another one but I think atm Thea is more than enough! I have seen your posts and it certainly looks like you've got your hands full! But Zazu and Lily are both gorgeous so I'm sure you forgive them quickly.

I am working on settle and she does love chewing her antler (we are on the second one now) so she does get time to calm. Some days, she is fantastic and it's lovely. Other days, she's having none of it and will keep going until she's put in her crate when we go to work in the evening. I will do similar to what you did and hopefully, it will pay off.

Thanks for the tip about impulse control. I will definitely look that up  anything to help get her to 'perfect pup' status


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Does anyone have any insight as to why Thea is a complete PITA for me/around me but behaves do much better for my OH? I know it shouldn't, but it is starting to upset me. 

Example - this morning my OH got up with Thea, let her out and gave her breakfast. After she lay in the front room chewing her antler and dozing off, being lovely and calm. I get up, come into the front room and Thea instantly jumps up at me before trying to chew on my sleeve/shoes. From then on, she's just getting herself into everything she shouldn't but she will still listen to my OH better than me. All the naughty stuff she does, she will do if I'm around but very very rarely if she is with my OH alone. 

Is this just because I do most things with her, I'm seen as a play mate rather than someone to be listened to? I know most dogs will have a owner they are more drawn to/closer to but this feels like something a bit more than that.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I think @Barkingmad57 can sympathise she started a similar thread. Who does the bulk of the work with her ?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> I think @Barkingmad57 can sympathise she started a similar thread. Who does the bulk of the work with her ?


I knew I'd read something somewhere about someone in a similar situation.
Me. I do most things with her. OH comes out on walks, does some feeding and plays a game with her each night but she adores him.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> I knew I'd read something somewhere about someone in a similar situation.
> Me. I do most things with her. OH comes out on walks, does some feeding and plays a game with her each night but she adores him.


The biting and jumping suggests excitement so maybe you are just more fun  I wouldn't take it to heart Loki says the more the naughties the more the love.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Maybe, I hope so.
If Loki says that then it must be true! Loki knows everything


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Ok so I haven't written here for a while with regards to Thea's 'issues' (can't change the name of the thread as it deviated from just walking problems). But I'm interested in people's insights/suggestions on the following. 

Thea gets SO overexcited and overwhelmed when someone is here. My father-in-law is staying with us for a week until his flat is ready for him to move into. He arrived late last night and Thea went mad! At first, she was very cautious about approaching him so it took her a minute to say hello (we didn't push her and my father-in-law didn't rush over to her). Once she had said hello then it was a free for all. She is just so excited that she cannot sit still. If she goes over to my FIL, she is super waggy but she will try to climb up onto the seat with him and start to get mouthy. She will run backwards and forwards across the room to my FIL but she wouldn't settle. Eventually we put her on a lead so we could keep her away which she was not happy about (biting lead and sometimes mouthing me as I was holding the lead). Even when we went to bed, she went into her crate no problems but she was panting with being so excited and it took her about an hour and half to calm herself so she could sleep.

This morning is pretty much the same story. Even though she has met my FIL (and said hello this morning) she is acting like she hasn't - rushing around, overexcited, starting to mouth. So we've separated her via a baby gate so she can still see and hear everything so she is pacing up and down, pawing at the gate, whining constantly and panting like she has just run the London Marathon. I did some training with her and she responded for a few minutes but then went back to pacing and pawing. If you ask her to sit she will but she's a bit like a jack-in-the-box - no sooner she's sat she pings back up again. She's started tail-chasing too which I know is due to the frustration of being separated and all of her energy building up with no outlet (we have let her into the garden but she wants to be indoors where everyone is). I've tried giving her a stuffed Kong which she showed no interest in and her antler which she threw over the baby gate, so she just cannot distract herself from her source of excitement. 


Don't get me wrong, her enthusiasm for life is commendable! But I don't want her to be in this hyper/overexcited state from morning to night until next weekend. I'm hoping that she will calm down after she has seen that my FIL is still here each morning. But in the meantime, any suggestions for how to help her calm would be really helpful.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Loki is the same when my sisters visit. They are both quite dog confident so ignore him arms crossed whilst he jumps around as soon as he sits and is calm he gets attention. It does take a few days for him to be completely normal when we go on holiday with sis if she doesn’t get up he’ll sit and wait outside her bedroom door.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Ah Loki seems to have the same zest for life as Thea! It's a good job they can't meet or I think they would plot to take over the world 

She started off like that. FIL ignored her, Thea would sit and then she'd get fuss and praise until she started being silly again. But she gets herself to a point where rather than thinking 'oh this works', the silliness seems to take over and she can't calm herself and goes deaf to everything else  
FIL and OH have just gone out into the garage to talk motorbikes so now she is running up and down at full pelt and barking because she can't see or get to them.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I'll be honest I'm probably not the best person to give advice this is loki with my sister.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

:Hilarious oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one with a excitable pup! Your sister looks like she's enjoying her Loki cuddles 
I don't want to stifle Thea's enthusiasm for new people, just be able to divert her attention when she gets too much


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> :Hilarious oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one with a excitable pup! Your sister looks like she's enjoying her Loki cuddles
> I don't want to stifle Thea's enthusiasm for new people, just be able to divert her attention when she gets too much


We have an on going joke between my sisters and me that Loki's love is to much. He gets upset if she shuts a door (bathroom) he does settle as the week goes on. I'm sure she does enjoy the cuddles. Honestly we have so many issues I have to pick my battles.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 471621
> 
> 
> We have an on going joke between my sisters and me that Loki's love is to much. He gets upset if she shuts a door (bathroom) he does settle as the week goes on. I'm sure she does enjoy the cuddles. Honestly we have so many issues I have to pick my battles.


I think Thea is definitely in the same category as Loki, she just wants to show love to everyone but doesn't realise that she can be too strong (she's 36kg+).

Currently we have created a barrier in the front room - i'm on one side, FIL is on the other and OH is in the middle so Thea can only get to me and OH. Logic is, she can hear and see my FIL but cannot pester him. I did have her on a lead which she was happy to lie down and chew (it's a chain lead so she can't chew through it as a fabric one is useless). Now I've taken it off, she laying at OH's feet beginning to nod off.

I think she's completely done in from being so worked up all morning but the minute someone moves, she springs up. She has massive FOMO issues :Hilarious


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> I think Thea is definitely in the same category as Loki, she just wants to show love to everyone but doesn't realise that she can be too strong (she's 36kg+).
> 
> Currently we have created a barrier in the front room - i'm on one side, FIL is on the other and OH is in the middle so Thea can only get to me and OH. Logic is, she can hear and see my FIL but cannot pester him. I did have her on a lead which she was happy to lie down and chew (it's a chain lead so she can't chew through it as a fabric one is useless). Now I've taken it off, she laying at OH's feet beginning to nod off.
> 
> I think she's completely done in from being so worked up all morning but the minute someone moves, she springs up. She has massive FOMO issues :Hilarious


Loki would be interested to meet with Thea to discuss further nonsense. Loki has to stay on his lead when my step dad visited to build my furniture as he didn't want Loki's help.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Thea would be very interested in discussing nonsense tactic with Loki. Thea says she is only a baby so needs some guidance :Hilarious

I have a feeling Thea will be on a lead more often than not over the next week or so. My MIL is now coming for dinner too so there will be a lot more excitement to come!


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

This is how Thea is now. I just went out to take my MIL home and Thea didn't even hear me come in! She has exhausted herself


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Well, as I predicted, this week is very stressful. FIL has now been here since Friday and Sunday was our best day but in all honesty I think that was just because Thea was so exhausted. On Sunday she was much calmer, to the point where she went to sleep next to my FIL. But ever since she is just too much. She is nipping an awful lot, even to my OH and she never does that to him, it's always been directed at me. We are treating that the same as when she was a tiny pup - teeth on skin = being ignored. When Thea sits In front of my OH or me, she tends to put her ears back which I believe is a sign of her being anxious? I've not noticed her doing this before this week so I'm putting it down to the fact her whole routine has been shaken up and there is a strange person in the house.
When she does get close to my FIL, she constantly licks him and just gets more excited as she carries on. We have now got to the point where we can call her away but after sitting and getting her treat and staying still for all of 20 seconds, she pings back over to him and it starts again. Putting her on the lead does work as it stops her getting to FIL but she won't calm even if she is laying down with it on as she will just constantly chew at it. So then we have to shut her away and, sometimes, when we do it's almost like you can see her whole body relax and she will lie down and nod off (until someone moves). 

The part that is worrying me is that, virtually from the minute she wakes up until the minute she goes to bed, Thea is panting horribly! I know it is probably just down to the excitement of someone else being here but I would have hoped after 5 days, this would have been starting to slow down. She just cannot seem to calm herself. Even if she does nod off, the minute she comes around she's back to panting. I hate seeing her like this and I really don't know how to help her. If I give her her antler, it seems to ramp her up and increase the panting. She doesn't seem to have the patience for Kongs. She has started to take herself off to her crate which is new (she only usually goes in her crate when we go out to work) but when she is in there she is not disturb but the panting doesn't subside. 

I am just really worried about how long she can keep this up for before it has a really significant impact on her.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Well, as I predicted, this week is very stressful. FIL has now been here since Friday and Sunday was our best day but in all honesty I think that was just because Thea was so exhausted. On Sunday she was much calmer, to the point where she went to sleep next to my FIL. But ever since she is just too much. She is nipping an awful lot, even to my OH and she never does that to him, it's always been directed at me. We are treating that the same as when she was a tiny pup - teeth on skin = being ignored. When Thea sits In front of my OH or me, she tends to put her ears back which I believe is a sign of her being anxious? I've not noticed her doing this before this week so I'm putting it down to the fact her whole routine has been shaken up and there is a strange person in the house.
> When she does get close to my FIL, she constantly licks him and just gets more excited as she carries on. We have now got to the point where we can call her away but after sitting and getting her treat and staying still for all of 20 seconds, she pings back over to him and it starts again. Putting her on the lead does work as it stops her getting to FIL but she won't calm even if she is laying down with it on as she will just constantly chew at it. So then we have to shut her away and, sometimes, when we do it's almost like you can see her whole body relax and she will lie down and nod off (until someone moves).
> 
> The part that is worrying me is that, virtually from the minute she wakes up until the minute she goes to bed, Thea is panting horribly! I know it is probably just down to the excitement of someone else being here but I would have hoped after 5 days, this would have been starting to slow down. She just cannot seem to calm herself. Even if she does nod off, the minute she comes around she's back to panting. I hate seeing her like this and I really don't know how to help her. If I give her her antler, it seems to ramp her up and increase the panting. She doesn't seem to have the patience for Kongs. She has started to take herself off to her crate which is new (she only usually goes in her crate when we go out to work) but when she is in there she is not disturb but the panting doesn't subside.
> ...


Mmm tricky one she's even out doing loki in nonsense status here. How is her exercise regime looking ? Is it worth taking her out for a good run ? Loki got very stressed on out last holiday due to having a noisy kennel across the road and possibly ghosts. We ended up putting some relaxing dog music on and giving him a massage (google dog massage) it really calmed him down.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Mmm tricky one she's even out doing loki in nonsense status here. How is her exercise regime looking ? Is it worth taking her out for a good run ? Loki got very stressed on out last holiday due to having a noisy kennel across the road and possibly ghosts. We ended up putting some relaxing dog music on and giving him a massage (google dog massage) it really calmed him down.


Thea's recall isn't solid enough to be off-lead yet but her exercise routine is the same as it was before FIL turned up. She's actually getting a bit more freedom on her afternoon walk with my OH and me as she gets to go on a long lead and have a good sniff/wander and search for as many sticks as she wants. I do make sure I play out in the garden with her so she can run around and have a bit of a blast. When she's out walking she seems so happy, it's so upsetting to get back and her to just be panting non-stop.

She's crashed out on the living room floor atm. She had a chew which slowed her down for as long as she had it, then half hour of being a PITA so we did some find it, kept her on her lead when FIL came back down, and now she's crashed. 
I don't know if it's just all come at a bad time, with her 'teenage' phase kicking in too so she was always going to become a bit defiant but it did feel like we were getting into a really good routine with her and starting to make some progress with things but now she just seems so stressed and unhappy. 
Music might be a good idea, I'll search some up on YouTube, thanks 

I must sound like a right wingebag but I just worry about her. I hate hearing her panting and seeing her pacing when she's not allowed in the living room


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thea's recall isn't solid enough to be off-lead yet but her exercise routine is the same as it was before FIL turned up. She's actually getting a bit more freedom on her afternoon walk with my OH and me as she gets to go on a long lead and have a good sniff/wander and search for as many sticks as she wants. I do make sure I play out in the garden with her so she can run around and have a bit of a blast. When she's out walking she seems so happy, it's so upsetting to get back and her to just be panting non-stop.
> 
> She's crashed out on the living room floor atm. She had a chew which slowed her down for as long as she had it, then half hour of being a PITA so we did some find it, kept her on her lead when FIL came back down, and now she's crashed.
> I don't know if it's just all come at a bad time, with her 'teenage' phase kicking in too so she was always going to become a bit defiant but it did feel like we were getting into a really good routine with her and starting to make some progress with things but now she just seems so stressed and unhappy.
> ...


It's horrible it was very sad when Loki didn't like his holiday. The massage worked well. Can you rent a field for a run loki is always better after blowing off some stream.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Maybe break up the day with more, but slower, short walks where she can do lots of sniffing etc.

That might make her more tired and ready to settle indoors afterwards?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Im struggling to find a field near me but I will keep looking as I think they are a fantastic idea. Especially while Thea is working on her recall. 
I just want to give her a big cuddle and tell her it's all ok but she doesn't understand and she'll nip me if I try :Hilarious


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

That's true. I have more time tomorrow so I will definitely make her morning walk more leisurely
Thanks for the advice


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

How about one of those plug ins next time you have a visitor. Maybe hide some food in the garden for her to sniff out.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I can’t see here that anybody has suggested that her food, or an ingredient in it, is making her extra-hyper.

It might be worth experimenting by feeding her something very low protein, with no chemical preservatives or colourants, just to see. Include treats in this regime as well. I’m not suggesting long-term but if it pin points food then it gives you a way to go to find something more suitable for her age and breed.

If you are going to see a difference in her behaviour it will happen quite quickly.

Dogs can react like toddlers to some ingredients.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> How about one of those plug ins next time you have a visitor. Maybe hide some food in the garden for her to sniff out.


I never even thought of the plug in things. I will try and remember it for next time.

Thea has done lots of play and training with my OH this morning, as well as her morning walk with just me and her afternoon walk with both of us. She was still very excited to be able to get to FIL but after a few minutes, I took her away (on a lead) and she is now happily dozing in the front room  The lead is still attached but no-one has hold of it so everyone is very chilled. If this is the way it has to be for now, that's fine! She's not panting horribly or pacing up and down so that can only be good for her as she isn't so stressed


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Linda Weasel said:


> I can't see here that anybody has suggested that her food, or an ingredient in it, is making her extra-hyper.
> 
> It might be worth experimenting by feeding her something very low protein, with no chemical preservatives or colourants, just to see. Include treats in this regime as well. I'm not suggesting long-term but if it pin points food then it gives you a way to go to find something more suitable for her age and breed.
> 
> ...


Oh right. I'd never even thought about her food being a problem. She is currently on Ava large breed puppy and she tends to get natural treats (braided lamb, pigs ears, beef twists) but I will definitely consider experimenting whether her food is a factor. Thanks for the advice


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Oh I really hoped that I wouldn't have to be writing on this thread again as I thought I had made some real progress with Thea. On Sunday we had an amazing walk together. She was responsive, well behaved, checking in with me and happy to potter around on her long lead. I was really happy. And then it came to today and someone's throw away comment has got me questioning everything.

I took Thea to the woods this morning as normal. As we got into the woods, I could see another dog owner but no dog so I decided rather than walk towards them I would walk the other way so they would be behind us. After a minute, Thea clocked on to the fact there was another dog behind her. She kept turning around, tail tucked right under watching them and every time they got a bit closer, she would turn and run. Obviously she couldn't go far as she was still on her lead. After two or three times of her doing this (and her not responding to 'let's go' command or treats) , I decided we would get off the path and let the woman and her dog (spaniel type but 10 yrs old so very calm and part deaf) pass so Thea would calm. Thea sat between my feet as this woman and her dog got closer and she started asking if Thea was friendly to which I said she is but she doesn't like dogs walking behind her. As I was talking with this woman, Thea then seemed to panic. She curled herself up really small, her fur on her back stood up and she pulled me down the path away from the other dog. The other dog wasn't interacting with Thea in any way, it was just stood next to the owner.
The owner then said (and this has been going around my head all day) 'Aw look she's so scared, she must have had a bad start'. I never even responded to the comment because I just couldn't think what to say. But for a stranger to say that has upset me more than I can find words for. Thea then started bouncing around from side to side, looking like she wanted to play (?) but as the other dog walked away, she was trying to run after it. 
We left the woods and walked home. Thea will always go into the house and sit by the back door so I can take her harness off and then let her out but today she peed before I could get her harness off. She's not peed in the house for weeks!

I know I've had issues with walking Thea before but today she seemed terrified and I have no idea why it was different or why she reacted like that. I don't know if I'm reading her wrong but it seems like she is scared/anxious when she is out with just me, but both of us or just my OH and she's OK. I feel like if that's what people are seeing then they are going to judge me as some monster that has done something to create this terrified dog!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Oh I really hoped that I wouldn't have to be writing on this thread again as I thought I had made some real progress with Thea. On Sunday we had an amazing walk together. She was responsive, well behaved, checking in with me and happy to potter around on her long lead. I was really happy. And then it came to today and someone's throw away comment has got me questioning everything.
> 
> I took Thea to the woods this morning as normal. As we got into the woods, I could see another dog owner but no dog so I decided rather than walk towards them I would walk the other way so they would be behind us. After a minute, Thea clocked on to the fact there was another dog behind her. She kept turning around, tail tucked right under watching them and every time they got a bit closer, she would turn and run. Obviously she couldn't go far as she was still on her lead. After two or three times of her doing this (and her not responding to 'let's go' command or treats) , I decided we would get off the path and let the woman and her dog (spaniel type but 10 yrs old so very calm and part deaf) pass so Thea would calm. Thea sat between my feet as this woman and her dog got closer and she started asking if Thea was friendly to which I said she is but she doesn't like dogs walking behind her. As I was talking with this woman, Thea then seemed to panic. She curled herself up really small, her fur on her back stood up and she pulled me down the path away from the other dog. The other dog wasn't interacting with Thea in any way, it was just stood next to the owner.
> The owner then said (and this has been going around my head all day) 'Aw look she's so scared, she must have had a bad start'. I never even responded to the comment because I just couldn't think what to say. But for a stranger to say that has upset me more than I can find words for. Thea then started bouncing around from side to side, looking like she wanted to play (?) but as the other dog walked away, she was trying to run after it.
> ...


Pay no mind. If she doesn't normally react like that it may be that the dog was sending off signals (eye balling can be subtle).

Loki does this will freeze then bounce once they are past. I've had comments similar being out with Loki is so horribly embarrassing I don't get embarrassed anymore.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Pay no mind. If she doesn't normally react like that it may be that the dog was sending off signals (eye balling can be subtle).
> 
> Loki does this will freeze then bounce once they are past. I've had comments similar being out with Loki is so horribly embarrassing I don't get embarrassed anymore.


Thank you 
I think I worry more after having TJ who was very reactive that Thea will end up being the same through something I do/don't do. It was just the severity of her reaction that concerned me. She's never reacted like that, even to dogs that are snarling at her (like the huge GSD this morning). I've never seen her act fearful like that.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thank you
> I think I worry more after having TJ who was very reactive that Thea will end up being the same through something I do/don't do. It was just the severity of her reaction that concerned me. She's never reacted like that, even to dogs that are snarling at her (like the huge GSD this morning). I've never seen her act fearful like that.


Maybe she just sensed some bad vibe I think dogs do sometimes. (I mean loki is suspicious if everyone) Could she have trigger stacked after the GSD ?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Maybe she just sensed some bad vibe I think dogs do sometimes. (I mean loki is suspicious if everyone) Could she have trigger stacked after the GSD ?


Yeah I'm hoping that she just got a strange feeling from this dog. It was very still whilst we were talking so it may have unnerved her.

She didn't bother with the GSD. It was on the opposite side of the road and Thea just kept walking right by my side. Never pulled or flinched so I don't know but I guess if it unnerved her then maybe that would cause her to fear the next dog that came along. She always panics if she knows there is a dog walking behind her though. She does this with both me and OH. I probably should have just waited for the dog to walk past first before we got onto the path so she didn't worry about it coming up behind her


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Yeah I'm hoping that she just got a strange feeling from this dog. It was very still whilst we were talking so it may have unnerved her.
> 
> She didn't bother with the GSD. It was on the opposite side of the road and Thea just kept walking right by my side. Never pulled or flinched so I don't know but I guess if it unnerved her then maybe that would cause her to fear the next dog that came along. She always panics if she knows there is a dog walking behind her though. She does this with both me and OH. I probably should have just waited for the dog to walk past first before we got onto the path so she didn't worry about it coming up behind her


I would write it off as a one off, I've had people ask if loki has had a difficult start. I just tell them no he's a douche.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Aha that's a pretty good response. I'm not quick enough to think of something witty/sarcastic to say back so I just end up not saying anything. 
I don't think Loki is a douche, he just has an eccentric personality


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Not sure why her comment would upset you. I don't remember if you had him as a pup or a rescue but so many dogs are either badly reared by their breeders or are rescues it is not a surprising comment.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Hopefully this was a one-off, but have a plan ready if something like this happens again.

Who knows what Thea’s problem with the other dog was? Maybe just the fact that it was ‘stalking’ her was enough.

You also know now that stopping to have a conversation doesn’t help.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I’d ignore the comment … I doubt it was said with malice and it’s easy to jump to conclusions. It may even have been an attempt to show some empathy?

I would just work at keeping a good distance from other dogs.

Had you been even just another 6 feet away, Thea may not have reacted.

The more you can maintain that distance and she has no need to react, hopefully, her reactivity overall will reduce.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Blitz said:


> Not sure why her comment would upset you. I don't remember if you had him as a pup or a rescue but so many dogs are either badly reared by their breeders or are rescues it is not a surprising comment.


I've had Thea since she as 7.5weeks (now 8 months). I guess I just took it too personally as I have had Thea since she was a pup and neither me nor my OH would do anything to make her fearful or put her in a situation where she would feel that way. It's such a rapid change as she used to drag towards other dogs but now she's fearful and I can't think why it has changed.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Linda Weasel said:


> Hopefully this was a one-off, but have a plan ready if something like this happens again.
> 
> Who knows what Thea's problem with the other dog was? Maybe just the fact that it was 'stalking' her was enough.
> 
> You also know now that stopping to have a conversation doesn't help.


I do have a plan. This morning we had 4 dogs pass us. Each time Thea spotted the dog, her tail would go under and she would freeze. I would distract her enough to get her off the path and get her to sit between my feet and she would stay until the other dog had passed and then she would walk on. It worked this morning - no running away, just calm sitting. I'm wondering if the fact that the other dog stayed so still unnerved her in some way. But yes, for now this seems to work.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> I'd ignore the comment … I doubt it was said with malice and it's easy to jump to conclusions. It may even have been an attempt to show some empathy?
> 
> I would just work at keeping a good distance from other dogs.
> 
> ...


Yes. That's what I want to do now. She used to pull to get to other dogs so now this flip to being fearful/anxious is confusing but if that's how she feels then that's how we will deal with it. I'm also going to try to get out earlier so it's maybe less busy on our walking route.

We were about 6ft from all dogs this morning and she was happy to sit so I will be mindful of our distance for now.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Check out also ‘second fear period on dogs’

I did also think, on reading your other post about the other dog not moving; was the other dog ‘frozen’ perhaps, because this is one of the anxiety/aggression warnings that dogs give to other dogs to signal them to go away, and if Thea was on lead then she couldn’t react to that so got really stressed .


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Will definitely start looking this up. Thea has started with hyper vigilant barking, mostly early morning and late evenings so I'm wondering if that is a factor.

The other owner said her dog was mostly deaf so I just took it as the dog didn't stray too far from the owner. It was very still that you could have mistaken it for a stuffed toy. But yes you may be right that it was fearful/anxious and it gave off signals that set Thea off due to her being on a lead. Recall is still a work in progress but I'm hopeful that she will be able to have a roam off lead soon. For now, she will stay on her long lead


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Does anyone have any advice on how to make a dog more confident with one owner? 
My OH and I both took Thea on a walk last night, it was the first time my OH has been out with Thea in a week due to the heat (I walk her early mornings). Thea was so happy! She was bouncing along, got time off lead to practice recall which was brilliant, she never strayed far and always came back. When we saw another dog, the only one all walk, Thea pulled towards it! I know, if it had just been me on my own, she would have tucked up and tried to run if it got too close. I'm so confused as to why Thea feels so unsettled with just me. Could this still be the second fear phase and she just feels happier to have both of us around?

I do most of the training with Thea, I hand feed her from time to time as I was told that is a way to strengthen your relationship with your dog, play time and normal feeding. Yet she is so clearly my OH's dog. I just want her not to feel scared when out with me.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I’ll be honest since loki started to react I subconsciously get a bit nervous when I see another dog and it does travel to them. Could you be doing that? 

Although saying that my nerves were shot to pieces on our last holiday so I gave loki to my sister and he was still a douche. 


Sometimes I think it’s also the wow factor. So if your out with someone new they are more focused on that person. We were walking with my neighbour once who loki has a bromance with and to my delight no reaction because he was to busy being excited about my neighbour. 

The final reason could be she’s a secret genius knows it makes you feel bad and she will get more treats and toys.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> I've had Thea since she as 7.5weeks (now 8 months). I guess I just took it too personally as I have had Thea since she was a pup and neither me nor my OH would do anything to make her fearful or put her in a situation where she would feel that way. It's such a rapid change as she used to drag towards other dogs but now she's fearful and I can't think why it has changed.


Has she had her first season yet? If she hasn't, she could be headed towards it, and the hormones could be messing with her confidence too.

Puppies, then teenagers, then juveniles go through all sorts of phases and stages, and wake up different dogs sometimes, then go back to being themselves, and then have moments of not being themselves, and the only thing you can count on is the inconsistency. It's totally normal. 
Try to learn to gage which version of your dog you have with you each day and deal with that version as best you can without too many expectations. Just keep working on the relationship, the communication system, and it does all fall in to place eventually


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> I'll be honest since loki started to react I subconsciously get a bit nervous when I see another dog and it does travel to them. Could you be doing that?
> 
> Although saying that my nerves were shot to pieces on our last holiday so I gave loki to my sister and he was still a douche.
> 
> ...


Yes I guess I could be getting more tense. 90% of the time on a walk she will spook at nothing, turn round to check behind her, jump at a bird in the trees. I guess if I'm expecting her to be a nervous wreck then I could be creating a nervous wreck.

Thea dotes on my OH. When he leaves the house she will sit at the window for ages after he has gone waiting for him to come back. I'm a bit jealous tbh  so yes I agree with you there, the novelty of OH coming out again after such a long time (to her) was probably overriding everything else.

Secret genius I can definitely go with! She gets lots of fussing when we get home, telling her what a brave girl she is to go out in the big scary world. Maybe she has clocked on to that and she likes all the fuss.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Has she had her first season yet? If she hasn't, she could be headed towards it, and the hormones could be messing with her confidence too.
> 
> Puppies, then teenagers, then juveniles go through all sorts of phases and stages, and wake up different dogs sometimes, then go back to being themselves, and then have moments of not being themselves, and the only thing you can count on is the inconsistency. It's totally normal.
> Try to learn to gage which version of your dog you have with you each day and deal with that version as best you can without too many expectations. Just keep working on the relationship, the communication system, and it does all fall in to place eventually


Not sure if she has had her first season yet. About 2 months ago we spotted one drop of blood on the floor and about that time Thea was being extra clean on herself but we never saw any other signs so it is still a possibility.

Thea is definitely inconsistent! This morning she was trying to get behind me to see the people across the road but the minute we got around the corner she started with the nervous behaviour. Walking through the woods and a bird flew from tree to tree and if you'd have seen her, you would have thought she'd been shot at! She was scared and running. Luckily it was near the exit to the woods so once we were out on the pavement she seemed to recover but was still checking behind her.

Today's version is scared of the outside world but happily destructive at home :Hilarious


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Loki says nothing wrong with being on edge he's 99% sure something was gonna come out of the corn get loki today.

Disclaimer: Nothing came out the corn to get loki.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 473169
> Loki says nothing wrong with being on edge he's 99% sure something was gonna come out of the corn get loki today.
> 
> Disclaimer: Nothing came out the corn to get loki.


That's a good 'body language' picture. Look at his tail.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Linda Weasel said:


> That's a good 'body language' picture. Look at his tail.


I know bless him he sometimes is convinced something is out there. I think it was pigeons rustling.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

He looks super alert. But he still managed to look ultra cool 

I will try to get a picture of Thea when she freezes. Her tail goes right under so you can't see it and she stands really square in whichever direction the noise (or noise I can't hear) comes from / dog is coming from


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> He looks super alert. But he still managed to look ultra cool
> 
> I will try to get a picture of Thea when she freezes. Her tail goes right under so you can't see it and she stands really square in whichever direction the noise (or noise I can't hear) comes from / dog is coming from


Loki sounds the same it depends on the distance I try and keep a good distance and his tail stays up. Not always possible.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

This is how Thea looks when she hears a noise. The noise this morning was a car door being shut in one of the streets bordering the woods. But once this starts, she will freeze like this every 10 paces or so. She will walk on, but runs in front then stops like this for a few minutes and then it repeats. 
When she sees a dog, this is the initial reaction too, but then she will sit down and watch as the dog approaches. I try to get her off the path before she sits to create distance between us and the other dog.

On our morning walk tomorrow I am not going into the woods. I'm going to stick to pavement and see if this makes a difference. I am a little doubtful but it's worth a shot


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> View attachment 473225
> View attachment 473226
> 
> 
> ...


Loki does look similar sometimes it's horrible isn't it when they are worried. I have been using the LAT method. If we can't get a good distance I make sure I say hello act a bit silly as we go past. Tell him he's a good boy it's a nice dog.His tail often starts wagging.

The random noises is a hard one he's always been hyper apart and will see, smell and here things Sox just doesn't.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Thea is hyper alert too. Most of the time I can't hear whatever it is that gets her attention so I have to remind myself that she can hear a hell of a lot better than me. Thea is hyper-everything really lol 

I do hate seeing Thea like that but ATM it is every day, whether it is a dog or a noise. It's a massive frustration for me as she is so different with my OH so for me, I always come back to the question, is it something I do or don't do that makes her feel insecure?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thea is hyper alert too. Most of the time I can't hear whatever it is that gets her attention so I have to remind myself that she can hear a hell of a lot better than me. Thea is hyper-everything really lol
> 
> I do hate seeing Thea like that but ATM it is every day, whether it is a dog or a noise. It's a massive frustration for me as she is so different with my OH so for me, I always come back to the question, is it something I do or don't do that makes her feel insecure?


Does she ever go out just OH or is it always both of you ? Safety in numbers. Loki is a lot better if I go out early less folk about he's more relaxed.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

That's what OH says - she feels happier with the two of us. She does go out just with him and she's absolutely fine by all accounts. 

I think I'm going to try and get out earlier in the mornings, see if that makes a difference. Anything to try and help her confidence


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Came home today to find Thea had busted out of her crate, broke apart the baby gate and proceeded to destroy earphones, a cardboard box and some paperwork for my FIL in the front room. She'd been left for just over 2.5hrs which she is used to as that's an average amount of time we are out each morning.
Despite walking, playing and training as much as possible, Thea is getting more hyper and more destructive. I do make sure she get rest time but she doesn't understand what that is and just tends to become mouthy when she doesn't get attention. Sleep/rest is definitely on her terms! 

I know I must sound like all I can do is moan about Thea but this is the sole place I can talk about her. I completely understand if someone just wants to scream "She's a puppy, it's what they do!" and I would wholeheartedly agree.

She is now snoring away in her crate (which has been fixed with cable ties). Apparently being destructive is exhausting


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

ECT said:


> Came home today to find Thea had busted out of her crate, broke apart the baby gate and proceeded to destroy earphones, a cardboard box and some paperwork for my FIL in the front room. She'd been left for just over 2.5hrs which she is used to as that's an average amount of time we are out each morning.
> Despite walking, playing and training as much as possible, Thea is getting more hyper and more destructive. I do make sure she get rest time but she doesn't understand what that is and just tends to become mouthy when she doesn't get attention. Sleep/rest is definitely on her terms!
> 
> I know I must sound like all I can do is moan about Thea but this is the sole place I can talk about her. I completely understand if someone just wants to scream "She's a puppy, it's what they do!" and I would wholeheartedly agree.
> ...


Unfortunately you are right, she is a puppy and puppies are horrible! 
When you give her rest time do you give her something to help calm her like a chew or stuffed Kong? Enforced rest is hard but is definitely needed.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She’s a puppy  (loki is 2.5 years and still torments me daily) he knows he has me over a barrel because I love the little PITA.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> Came home today to find Thea had busted out of her crate, broke apart the baby gate and proceeded to destroy earphones, a cardboard box and some paperwork for my FIL in the front room. She'd been left for just over 2.5hrs which she is used to as that's an average amount of time we are out each morning.
> Despite walking, playing and training as much as possible, Thea is getting more hyper and more destructive. I do make sure she get rest time but she doesn't understand what that is and just tends to become mouthy when she doesn't get attention. Sleep/rest is definitely on her terms!
> 
> I know I must sound like all I can do is moan about Thea but this is the sole place I can talk about her. I completely understand if someone just wants to scream "She's a puppy, it's what they do!" and I would wholeheartedly agree.
> ...


How old is Thea now?

When our great dane bitch was around 11 months, she ripped a baby gate out of the wall (it was anchored in to the wall), and ate through Bates' expensive leather show leash and rolled leather collar. This is the place we had been leaving her since day one and she had been fine. She went through a particularly horrible phase around this time. She also used to pogo stick jump straight up in the air at the sight of a squirrel or a blowing leaf that could have been a squirrel because she knew lunging on the leash wasn't allowed, so she went airborne instead.
It's a grit your teeth and hang on for dear life time. This too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass. 
That great dane bitch eventually turned in to a lovely adult dog, she just took her sweet time growing up.

Penny is probably 2.5 and still has very little brain and no chill. But she's also simply very little so it's much more manageable!


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Sarah H said:


> Unfortunately you are right, she is a puppy and puppies are horrible!
> When you give her rest time do you give her something to help calm her like a chew or stuffed Kong? Enforced rest is hard but is definitely needed.


She has hard chews (dog wood, antler) but they seem to send her insane! She will chew nicely for a bit, then goes frantic. She gets pig's ears too but once they are finished it's game on. Braided lamb used to be the favourite, but now she just tries to bury them. 
We bought her a new chew toy - rubber wishbone, which seemed to work until she figured out how to pull pieces off it :Banghead She just seems very destructive, unless that's how it goes.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> She's a puppy  (loki is 2.5 years and still torments me daily) he knows he has me over a barrel because I love the little PITA.


Unfortunately, love for Thea is a little lacking right now. Less PITA more little s**t!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Unfortunately, love for Thea is a little lacking right now. Less PITA more little s**t!


Loki would like to invite her for a holiday at boxer HQ nonsense levels are high anyway. I'm very lucky loki has never been destructive I think Sox keeps him on the straight and narrow.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> How old is Thea now?
> 
> When our great dane bitch was around 11 months, she ripped a baby gate out of the wall (it was anchored in to the wall), and ate through Bates' expensive leather show leash and rolled leather collar. This is the place we had been leaving her since day one and she had been fine. She went through a particularly horrible phase around this time. She also used to pogo stick jump straight up in the air at the sight of a squirrel or a blowing leaf that could have been a squirrel because she knew lunging on the leash wasn't allowed, so she went airborne instead.
> It's a grit your teeth and hang on for dear life time. This too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass.
> ...


8 months. I swear the past 6 months with her has felt longer than the near 3 years I had with TJ. Just when you think you've made some progress, something else happens to just put you right back to square one. We've been doing 'middle' training, going from 'down' to 'sit' and impulse control and for the most part it's been going well.

This morning she seemed really tired still. I thought she'd just sleep but she obviously had other ideas. Thea is the same. Her crate has been in the same place since we moved in 4 months ago and the baby gate has been there the whole time too.

Past few weeks have just seemed to have gone bad to worse. She's trying to eat everything she shouldn't (sticks, stones, soil, moss, brick, concrete), cant/won't settle, tail chasing, the list could go on! And that's just at home! The walking thing is also a nightmare but it's like she has split personality. At home she's so confident and balshy, out with me she's a nervous wreck.

I keep saying it will get better, she will grow up but I can't wait for it to happen!

I read my horoscope this morning and the first sentence was 'today is not a good day' - no s**t sherlock! :Hilarious

I'm very jealous of yourself and Penny - your videos are fantastic and the relationship you have is amazing.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Loki would like to invite her for a holiday at boxer HQ nonsense levels are high anyway. I'm very lucky loki has never been destructive I think Sox keeps him on the straight and narrow.


Don't tempt me else I'll be sticking a stamp on her butt tonight!

I kept saying to OH that we needed an older dog to set Thea straight. Seeing as I can't cope with her, I don't think adding another will help right now!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Don't tempt me else I'll be sticking a stamp on her butt tonight!
> 
> I kept saying to OH that we needed an older dog to set Thea straight. Seeing as I can't cope with her, I don't think adding another will help right now!


 Sox is like a big bro to loki keeping him in check. Don't let it get you down all you can do is try your best. I have to remind myself how far I've come with Loki. We've worked through lots of problems but have a long way to go.

When he was Theas age there are times I could have happily dropped him off at the Blue Cross door. He was bonkers still biting, digging the garden, jumping up, pulling on the lead.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Sox is like a big bro to loki keeping him in check. Don't let it get you down all you can do is try your best. I have to remind myself how far I've come with Loki. We've worked through lots of problems but have a long way to go.
> 
> When he was Theas age there are times I could have happily dropped him off at the Blue Cross door. He was bonkers still biting, digging the garden, jumping up, pulling on the lead.


Loki sounds like Thea! I mean, to a T! We have just fenced part of our garden off because she keeps digging and pulling up loads of sticks (more like small branches) but she tries to eat them. I think, for me, I get more upset when things like this happen because I remember how good and honest TJ was. I was hoping Thea would be similar to him but she's the complete opposite. TJ was much older (around 8) when we got him so I knew there would be some difference in having a pup. Today, I honestly told Thea I wished I'd never got her


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Loki sounds like Thea! I mean, to a T! We have just fenced part of our garden off because she keeps digging and pulling up loads of sticks (more like small branches) but she tries to eat them. I think, for me, I get more upset when things like this happen because I remember how good and honest TJ was. I was hoping Thea would be similar to him but she's the complete opposite. TJ was much older (around 8) when we got him so I knew there would be some difference in having a pup. Today, I honestly told Thea I wished I'd never got her


We had an elderly Rottie around here perfect off lead, best dog in the world. I commented to the owner one day about how good she was compared to my devil. He confessed it was only in the last few years she had started to behave. I think baby rotties like to have fun.

I once told loki he would need to move out. Then we had the fun when his insides fell out because I couldn't keep him still after his operation. All of our naughties seem to have calmed down. The reactivity is a pain but everything else has got easier.

At 8 months I expect you have a little way to go. What does her day look like ? I find I have to structure Loki's. Brain fun like scatter feeding and kongs, wobbler. Walks I take toys to engage him and try and make myself super fun. Today we went to the sports field and just sat.

This to will pass.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> At 8 months I expect you have a little way to go. What does her day look like ? I find I have to structure Loki's. Brain fun like scatter feeding and kongs, wobbler. Walks I take toys to engage him and try and make myself super fun. Today we went to the sports field and just sat.


I was just going to ask this. Thea may need more brain stuff to keep her mind occupied. Sniffy games are great for that.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> We had an elderly Rottie around here perfect off lead, best dog in the world. I commented to the owner one day about how good she was compared to my devil. He confessed it was only in the last few years she had started to behave. I think baby rotties like to have fun.
> 
> I once told loki he would need to move out. Then we had the fun when his insides fell out because I couldn't keep him still after his operation. All of our naughties seem to have calmed down. The reactivity is a pain but everything else has got easier.
> 
> ...





O2.0 said:


> I was just going to ask this. Thea may need more brain stuff to keep her mind occupied. Sniffy games are great for that.


She gets two walks, one of about 20minutes and the second about 35minutes. I'm mindful with her still being a pup and not having great recall, all walks are on lead so I don't want to stress her joints. Walks are mainly pavement now as she seems a little happier with me like that rather than going in the forest. 
We do training 10minutes about 3 times a day. After 10minutes she gets mouthy and restless.

We play ball and tug. Now the apples are falling off the trees it's become a great game to chase the apples around and chase me too (on purpose). We play find it in the garden too. Anything high energy, high excitement and she's interested. Relax is not in Thea's vocabulary :Hilarious

Most mornings she is in her crate for 1.5 -3.5hrs while we are out at work, she gets her dogwood, antler and squeaky hippo whilst we are out as well as a treat. 
She's on two meals a day now as she stopped eating her lunch so we just naturally took her off it. Past few days she's not been eating as much, tending not to eat her breakfast but will still eat dinner and treats.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> She gets two walks, one of about 20minutes and the second about 35minutes. I'm mindful with her still being a pup and not having great recall, all walks are on lead so I don't want to stress her joints. Walks are mainly pavement now as she seems a little happier with me like that rather than going in the forest.


At 8 months I'd have her doing more than this, particularly since all walks are on leash. 
If you can find a secure field to rent, that would be ideal, where she can bomb around and blow off steam without worry about her getting in to trouble. Any area she can swim is good too and she can do that on a long line. This time of year when our youngsters were this age, I'd take them to the river and let them swim as long as they wanted to. Granted, I also ended up with extremely fit dogs so a lot of their training including being able to settle no matter how active or not they had been. 
Her growth plates aren't closed yet, so nothing repetitive, or anything like jumps, weave poles, and such, but her own choice of play, zooming, and being an idiot youngster is all good


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Ok, that's good to know. I've been really worried about creating problems with her being on lead. We did do a 40 minute walk tonight, followed by 10 minutes of training and then zoomies round the garden. Started to calm then OH came home so went mad again for 10 minutes and is now laying on the floor panting like she's run a marathon. 
I am looking for a field but they aren't any that seem to be close so she doesn't get stressed with being in the car. I will keep looking and asking people when I'm out.

Idiot youngster is Thea's alternative name!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sox sends sympathy he says puppers are the worst except him he was a good boy.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I hope you and Thea have had some better days. She may well have reached the peak of naughties and now will be flattening the curve.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> I hope you and Thea have had some better days. She may well have reached the peak of naughties and now will be flattening the curve.


Thank you. 
Yesterday was a better day so she got a pig's ear as a treat when we got home from work last night.
Today is hit and miss. Lots of trying to eat soil (I will never understand why) and lots of freezing on our morning walk but she does seem to be getting a little better at settling whilst things are going on in the house.

It would be nice if there were slightly less naughties but, knowing Thea, she always has something planned :Hilarious


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thank you.
> Yesterday was a better day so she got a pig's ear as a treat when we got home from work last night.
> Today is hit and miss. Lots of trying to eat soil (I will never understand why) and lots of freezing on our morning walk but she does seem to be getting a little better at settling whilst things are going on in the house.
> 
> It would be nice if there were slightly less naughties but, knowing Thea, she always has something planned :Hilarious


Naughties tend to go up and down. Loki enjoys new naughties as well as older well used ones.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Thea has done lots of running around in the garden today so I'm hoping she's too tired for more naughties. Until tomorrow at least. 
I think cardboard is going to be her 'thing' though. The slightest wiff of a box and she's up like a shot.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Thea has done lots of running around in the garden today so I'm hoping she's too tired for more naughties. Until tomorrow at least.
> I think cardboard is going to be her 'thing' though. The slightest wiff of a box and she's up like a shot.


Loki likes a box. I hide treats in them and let him go nuts.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Done that once. Thea actually eats bits of the cardboard too so she spoils her own fun :Banghead


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

We just went out for a walk and it was so awful. Thea didn't do too bad at first, then she just seemed to start triggering at anything (birds flying, cars, music, at one point I think she did it at a bee). So I changed the route to go home. 
We spotted a spaniel youngster ahead so she froze. Got her off the path and a fair way from it so there was probably 10ft between us and it as it would go past. As the spaniel got to us, it pulled on its lead and make a choking noise so Thea bolted. I couldn't keep hold of her so she ran a good distance away from me. As I was running after her I could hear the spaniel's owner go 'oh that's a strong one'. I'm so angry that I couldn't keep hold and so embarrassed because someone saw and completely upset that Thea felt she had to run. 

Thea has always been ok at that sort of distance, that's why I moved out the way. So now apparently we need more distance. Feel like I'm trying to cure one problem and she just keeps making them.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> We just went out for a walk and it was so awful. Thea didn't do too bad at first, then she just seemed to start triggering at anything (birds flying, cars, music, at one point I think she did it at a bee). So I changed the route to go home.
> We spotted a spaniel youngster ahead so she froze. Got her off the path and a fair way from it so there was probably 10ft between us and it as it would go past. As the spaniel got to us, it pulled on its lead and make a choking noise so Thea bolted. I couldn't keep hold of her so she ran a good distance away from me. As I was running after her I could hear the spaniel's owner go 'oh that's a strong one'. I'm so angry that I couldn't keep hold and so embarrassed because someone saw and completely upset that Thea felt she had to run.
> 
> Thea has always been ok at that sort of distance, that's why I moved out the way. So now apparently we need more distance. Feel like I'm trying to cure one problem and she just keeps making them.


Oh I'm so sorry, it's a terrible feeling when you feel like things are getting worse instead of better.

Is Thea your first dog? Puppy?
Do you have good training support? A good class or trainer you get along with?

It might be helpful to have a few one on one sessions with someone with a fresh pair of eyes. 
Also, if you can forgo walks for a few days while she decompresses, games in the garden, or a few quiet sessions in a secure field that would help too.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

It's so hard because if my oh comes out, Thea can go off lead, her recall is improving (with him), she happy to meet people and other dogs. But with just me, her fear just seems to be increasing. 

Thea is my first pup. I had an old gent rottie before but he was 8 when we got him. 

We had a trainer but after 4 sessions, nothing had changed. I never felt like I was given any true direction except I was told I needed to play more, hand feed to build a relationship and use treats to distract (except she won't take them if she is focused on something). I am looking out for a new one whilst using info from this forum to try and help us. 

I was going to ask if walking her in the morning would be too much so I will give that a miss. Try and bring her back to a somewhat controllable pup :Hilarious


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Maybe stop walking her at all for a few days to allow the stress hormone to dissipate?

Then start again walking her with OH and build up some positive experiences.

You can exercise her in the garden with play and training.

Work on her focus with you and other obedience exercises to get her concentrating on you and those, and hopefully less on what’s around?

Is there a local owner and dog you could walk with? They might give you both a bit of confidence?

If not, maybe employ a Dog Walker just to accompany you for that purpose?


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Maybe if you give your general location someone could recommend a good trainer in your area. I had one tell me that my Yorkie would never walk to heel if I used a harness so I found one that listened to me. 

Is she really happy when she meets people and dogs with your OH? After a lot of 1:1 training my Yorkie tolerates all but an off lead dog running at her. The fact she can cope with dogs walking past her now does not mean that she wants to interact with them.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Just a quick tip for "enforced" rest.
Get yourself a kong, fill it with nommy food (don't freeze the first few times) and tie it to the crate/run panels (if you thread a bit of rope through with a knot it makes a perfect tie out)
That way she has to sit in the same spot to eat her food after a few times you can start to freeze it so that it lasts her longer.

Where abouts in the country are you? Someone might know of a decent trainer that could help you along


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> We had a trainer but after 4 sessions, nothing had changed. I never felt like I was given any true direction except I was told I needed to play more, hand feed to build a relationship and use treats to distract (except she won't take them if she is focused on something). I am looking out for a new one whilst using info from this forum to try and help us.


There is nothing inherently wrong with that advice, though I prefer not to use treats as a distraction because it can lead to the dog eventually not wanting to take treats in distracting environments which makes all sorts of things harder. 
But yeah, if your trainer and you aren't jiving, definitely find someone else. As others have said, maybe a member can recommend someone in your area.

Rotties are difficult teens at the best of times. Thea sounds like she might be fearful which can be hard to deal with too. Have you chatted with her breeder? A good breeder will be knowledgeable of their lines and be able to tell you if this is usual/unusual for her dogs and what to expect as she matures.

We have a decent thread going on dealing with reactive dogs you may want to jump in on  
https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads...l-dogs-lat-game.539962/page-3#post-1065800817


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

Just re-read through this whole thread and I feel your pain but this will pass, you just need to hang in there.

Rotties are lovely, calm gentle souls - WHEN THEY GROW UP! As teenagers however, they are horrendous. A Rottie forum I'm on on FB describes the life stages of a Rott as:
0-6 months - adorable furbaby,
6-24 months - unpredictable velociraptors,
25 months onwards best dogs ever!
Very tongue in cheek of course but not that far off the mark lol!

Mine are now 2 years and 5 months and 2 years and 4 months respectively and finally, finally - thank god - they've started to calm down, however Mylo (the younger one) when he was Thea's age......

ate a tub of wall filler that he pulled out of the garage (trip to the vets), no damage thank goodness but very sculptural poos!
Ripped up 3 dog beds
Ripped up a sofa
Ripped up most of my garden
Ripped up all the new turf that we laid after he ripped up the last lot
Ate all our planted strawberries, carrots and pumpkins
Squashed all our newly planted flowers by walking up and down the raised beds
Destroyed a palm tree in the garden chewing through the trunk
Ate a box of raisins (emergency vet trip £1000.00 bill)
Went through a horrible "Kevin" phase and decided he had forgotten every single command he'd ever been taught and was generally a PITA in every single way.

He is still a nutter and very hyper compared to Oscar (who is one month older) but so much calmer than he was. His current issues are e-scooters (terrified of them but just hides behind me when we see one) and puddles (won't walk through them for love nor money). Both of ours are mainly pavement walked, an hourish in the morning and the same at night and have most of their freeplay together in the garden playing bitey face or playing tug or doing training sessions with us. Mylo does go off lead sometimes as his recall is brilliant, Oscar however looses the power of hearing once his lead is removed so is rarely let off.

I have to say though, both of ours were reactive to things when they were younger and if the triggers "stacked" too much on a walk and either one became too reactive, I would just bring them home and maybe even skip the next couple of walks if I felt they needed to chill. We would also walk a different way the next time they went out.

We walk ours on a Julius K9 harness with a chest loop attachment on a double ended lead attached to both chest and back which we've found give really good control but I know a lot of Rott owners like the Dogmatic headcollar.

A book I would really recommend is BAT training by Grisha Stewart which is amazing for reactivity.

Re the over excitement when visitors are present, ours actually once knocked my friend over in our hallway and proceeded to lick her half to death before we could get them off of her and into their room. Protocol now is that when the door knocks, they go to their bedroom (our dining room) with a biscuit and the room door is shut. Guest comes into the house, sits down, gets comfy, dogs are let in to greet guest. If they go hyper or stupid (they do love a visitor!) they are taken back to their room to calm down and let out again when they have - repeated as long as it takes for them not to be idiots basically. 

Finally, having owned reactive rescue dogs in the past, unfortunately not all dogs love interacting with other dogs and people they don't know and can actually find it quite stressful. I think at the moment maybe maintain distance, walk at quieter times and go at Thea's pace when you are out to let her build up a bit of confidence.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe stop walking her at all for a few days to allow the stress hormone to dissipate?
> 
> Then start again walking her with OH and build up some positive experiences.
> 
> ...


We've left walking for today. Thea seems to be calming in the house a bit better today so I'm taking every positive!

I never thought about a walker. I don't really know anyone round where I live so that may be an idea. Had a good chat with OH earlier about it all so I feel a bit better


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Jobeth said:


> Maybe if you give your general location someone could recommend a good trainer in your area. I had one tell me that my Yorkie would never walk to heel if I used a harness so I found one that listened to me.
> 
> Is she really happy when she meets people and dogs with your OH? After a lot of 1:1 training my Yorkie tolerates all but an off lead dog running at her. The fact she can cope with dogs walking past her now does not mean that she wants to interact with them.


I'm in Lancashire. Yes I just didn't feel like I got any direction from the trainer.

I mean, she seems happy. Thea will go towards other people and dogs when she's with my OH whereas with me, she freezes. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe she is just anxious all the time. I'd just like her to be more confident with me.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

StormyThai said:


> Just a quick tip for "enforced" rest.
> Get yourself a kong, fill it with nommy food (don't freeze the first few times) and tie it to the crate/run panels (if you thread a bit of rope through with a knot it makes a perfect tie out)
> That way she has to sit in the same spot to eat her food after a few times you can start to freeze it so that it lasts her longer.
> 
> Where abouts in the country are you? Someone might know of a decent trainer that could help you along


Oh my god, that's such a simple but great idea! I will definitely look into doing that! Thank you 

I'm in Lancashire.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> There is nothing inherently wrong with that advice, though I prefer not to use treats as a distraction because it can lead to the dog eventually not wanting to take treats in distracting environments which makes all sorts of things harder.
> But yeah, if your trainer and you aren't jiving, definitely find someone else. As others have said, maybe a member can recommend someone in your area.
> 
> Rotties are difficult teens at the best of times. Thea sounds like she might be fearful which can be hard to deal with too. Have you chatted with her breeder? A good breeder will be knowledgeable of their lines and be able to tell you if this is usual/unusual for her dogs and what to expect as she matures.
> ...


The trainer I picked had good reviews and quite a few were for reactive dogs but I just felt like she felt out of her depth with Thea, if that makes sense? I didn't think she seemed very relaxed with her. So I'd like to find a new one.

Yes I am following that thread with interest. Everything you are saying makes sense so I am going to try and put it into practice when we go back to walking.
We took today off. Did some training and now Thea can do 'down' to 'sit' (Up command for us) 90% of the time so I'm pretty pleased with her.
She had a huge pork roll as a treat too and it took her over an hour to eat it and then she slept which was great. She does struggle to settle so that was a really good thing to happen.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Rottsmum said:


> Just re-read through this whole thread and I feel your pain but this will pass, you just need to hang in there.
> 
> Rotties are lovely, calm gentle souls - WHEN THEY GROW UP! As teenagers however, they are horrendous. A Rottie forum I'm on on FB describes the life stages of a Rott as:
> 0-6 months - adorable furbaby,
> ...


I am trying to hang on. I keep telling myself she will be great once she's older and then tell myself off because I'm wishing her puppy hood away.

Mylo sounds a lot like Thea! She has a massive destructive streak with beds too. When she broke out of her crate and destroyed what she did, I was so grateful she didn't go for the sofa because it is practically new. Since the sides of the crate have been cable tied, she doesn't seem able to break out thank god.
I'm glad Mylo is OK after all his antics.

I think that is something I will have to look out for, her trigger stacking. I should have probably just come home sooner yesterday but we live and learn (and my shoulder is paying the price).

I keep hinting to my OH that we need a second dog to help Thea settle but then we have a day like yesterday and I tell myself Thea is more than enough to deal with.

I will try your suggestion for visitors. Thank you 

My previous rottie was reactive too. I was so worried Thea would be so anything I can do to try and minimise how fearful she is, is what I will do. We go out early morning and in the evening but I will work back to building up the time and maybe just start off with one walk until she feels/seems happier


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ECT said:


> I just felt like she felt out of her depth with Thea, if that makes sense? I didn't think she seemed very relaxed with her.


Makes perfect sense, and unfortunately yes, this is a thing, some people just don't jive with some breeds or types, and if you noticed, for sure you need to find someone else


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

ECT said:


> I am trying to hang on. I keep telling myself she will be great once she's older and then tell myself off because I'm wishing her puppy hood away.
> 
> Mylo sounds a lot like Thea! She has a massive destructive streak with beds too. When she broke out of her crate and destroyed what she did, I was so grateful she didn't go for the sofa because it is practically new. Since the sides of the crate have been cable tied, she doesn't seem able to break out thank god.
> I'm glad Mylo is OK after all his antics.
> ...


The FB forum I'm on is called Rottweiler Discussion, it's a private group, just send a request to join. It's full of really knowledgeable long time Rott owners as well as new owners and everyone is really helpful and nice (just like here ). Something that helps with Mylo is just turning around and walking the other way from whatever it is he's reacting to and shoving a biscuit in his mouth at the same time (there's not much he won't do for a biscuit lol) until he calms down and then resuming the walk as normal. I would also say that if YOU and YOUR stress levels are just as important as Thea's and if you start to feel overwhelmed, end the walk and go home. You can always go out again later when you feel less stressed if you want to.

By the way, Mylo says he thinks that Thea sounds like his ideal girl and wishes that she lived nearer as he's just found a corner of the garden that he hasn't destroyed yet and could use her help in sorting that out! :Hilarious:Jawdrop


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

ECT said:


> I'm in Lancashire. Yes I just didn't feel like I got any direction from the trainer.
> 
> I mean, she seems happy. Thea will go towards other people and dogs when she's with my OH whereas with me, she freezes. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe she is just anxious all the time. I'd just like her to be more confident with me.


Unfortunately my trainer wouldn't be able to help but hopefully someone else will know someone. My oldest dog could be trained by anyone but she was the third one that I tried for my Yorkie. Her confidence grew when she realised that I would keep her away from other dogs/people. We did a lot of work on blocking and avoiding as well as what to do if she got scared. I'd never have been able to do it on my own and most of it was down to training me rather than her.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Rottsmum said:


> The FB forum I'm on is called Rottweiler Discussion, it's a private group, just send a request to join. It's full of really knowledgeable long time Rott owners as well as new owners and everyone is really helpful and nice (just like here ). Something that helps with Mylo is just turning around and walking the other way from whatever it is he's reacting to and shoving a biscuit in his mouth at the same time (there's not much he won't do for a biscuit lol) until he calms down and then resuming the walk as normal. I would also say that if YOU and YOUR stress levels are just as important as Thea's and if you start to feel overwhelmed, end the walk and go home. You can always go out again later when you feel less stressed if you want to.
> 
> By the way, Mylo says he thinks that Thea sounds like his ideal girl and wishes that she lived nearer as he's just found a corner of the garden that he hasn't destroyed yet and could use her help in sorting that out! :Hilarious:Jawdrop


Thank you, I have requested to join. 

Yes, I've always felt like turning around would make the problem worse as Thea would see it as running away but I think I may have to start trying this. Although if she feels something is following her she is a nightmare for turning around to stare at it. That's why the other night was difficult - I stayed put and she reacted awfully but I think if I'd have walked the other way she would have been turning round to see so no win situation.

Thank you for your comment about my stress too. I'm so busy worrying about Thea that I just plod on regardless. Not taking her out the past two mornings has done us both some good I think 

Thea said she'd love to come and help. She spent yesterday 'helping' with the weeding (biting and laying on everything I was trying to pull up) and throwing apples around the garden


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Jobeth said:


> Unfortunately my trainer wouldn't be able to help but hopefully someone else will know someone. My oldest dog could be trained by anyone but she was the third one that I tried for my Yorkie. Her confidence grew when she realised that I would keep her away from other dogs/people. We did a lot of work on blocking and avoiding as well as what to do if she got scared. I'd never have been able to do it on my own and most of it was down to training me rather than her.


That's what I'm looking for. Someone who understands and can help the both of us.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

This was Thea today. OH and I took her out with her new toy. She got time off lead, ran around, practiced her recall, always picked her toy up and was a complete dream to walk with. Apparently, confidence comes from being with both owners and a new toy stick!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

ECT said:


> That's what I'm looking for. Someone who understands and can help the both of us.


It does make such a difference. I enjoyed going and both my dogs adored her.


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

It is just when Thea is on her own with me that she panics, which is very confusing & upsetting.  

Yesterday I took her out for a walk with my stepdaughter. Thea was more concerned about making sure my SD was still with us and trying to jump up at her whenever she found a moment when I'd let my guard down a little. 
Took her out on my own tonight and she was back to looking behind her, tail curling under anytime a car went past, freezing when she could hear voices but not see them. 

It's so frustrating because I feel like I've done a lot of Thea's walking but yet, she feels more nervous with me. OH keeps saying that she will grow out of it, which I hope she will, but it doesn't change the here and now. Just feel a little fed up...


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Is it just the excitement of the second person takes away her worries. Loki walks better with a second person but is the same trying to jump all over them. He’s most likely to be nervous or reactive on predictable walks. Does that make sense ?


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## ECT (Jan 16, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Is it just the excitement of the second person takes away her worries. Loki walks better with a second person but is the same trying to jump all over them. He's most likely to be nervous or reactive on predictable walks. Does that make sense ?


Yes I guess that does make sense. I think it's probably a mix. With OH, it's familiar so safe. With SD it's the excitement of someone else. Thea won't jump at OH but SD is 'new' so very exciting! 
ATM in the house Thea is allowed in front room with us and SD if she's calm. If she gets overexcited or stops listening then she goes behind the gate until she calm again. But every day is like SD is a new person Thea has never seen before.

Loki and Thea seriously need to stop giving each other tips on how to give us hell, if only for a day...


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

ECT said:


> Yes I guess that does make sense. I think it's probably a mix. With OH, it's familiar so safe. With SD it's the excitement of someone else. Thea won't jump at OH but SD is 'new' so very exciting!
> ATM in the house Thea is allowed in front room with us and SD if she's calm. If she gets overexcited or stops listening then she goes behind the gate until she calm again. But every day is like SD is a new person Thea has never seen before.
> 
> Loki and Thea seriously need to stop giving each other tips on how to give us hell, if only for a day...


Loki enjoys walking with another hooman but if Sox is there he gets more reactive and Sox gets fed up with his nonsense. If we do a standard plod he's more likely to get a bit worried. New smells and walks he forgets he's worried. If I take a new toy he likes that. Don't it to heart she loves you.


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