# Sticky  IBD - colitis thread



## nicolaa123

My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.

I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.

As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.

I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??

Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.

Thanks..


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## Lilylass

Hi, sorry to hear your cats been diagnosed with IBD/Colitis - my dog suffers from Colitis.

Something to think about / investigate further when his condition is stablilised my be adding some fibre to his diet.

I was recommended Protexin on here for Maisie and it's made a *huge* difference 

There seems to be different ones for cats & dogs but came across this which is similar to what I give her http://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-Cystophan-For-Cats-Size/dp/B005UCP7LA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top or Protexin Profibre 800g for dogs and cats | Protexin Healthcare

As I say, might be something to think about longer term to keep things functioning well.

Mia had terrible troubles with her tum when she was little - thankfully totally cleared up once I found a food that suited her (and have never changed it since!).

Fingers crossed things settle down soon for him.


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## nicolaa123

Thanks, I've been reading about adding fibre to his diet so will look at the link. Is it a similar thing with dogs? What treatment did you try with her?


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## Lilylass

Yup, pretty similar in all species I think (incl humans - I have Crohn's Disease which is pretty similar ).
She had some antibiotics and it settled down pretty quickly, but kept flaring up so we were at the vet every few weeks.

She was on a good quality (hypoallergenic) food that Ben had been on when I had him (he was wheat intolerant) but it did have meat (duck) in so I wondered if that might be too rich for her.

Switched her to JWB Fish & Rice (also hypoallergenic) and she's getting the protexin in and, fingers crossed she's doing really well and has had no errr explosive episodes since.

Hoping I can try to switch her to Skinners Salmon & Rice (gradually) as I've never been a fan of JWB but we'll see how it goes (if that's the only thing she can have, then I'll live with it!).

It can take a while to find out what the triggers are - Maisie seems to be certain meats (certainly duck, beef, rabbit don't agree with her *ETA* & lamb ..... just remembered what happened after she'd had that!). It's really trying to find something bland that agrees with them, letting things totally settle for quite a while and then trying a very little of one new thing and seeing what happens to try to eliminate the triggers.

Stress can also be a huge factor - she is quite highly strung and I've not had her long and it's a *very* different environment from where she came, so that could also be a factor.


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## nicolaa123

Riley is on venison d/d at the moment, he was on the I/d. I stopped the biscuits as seemed to make his poo really hard which made his bum more sore. He also has a polyp which vet said went quite far up, which also irritates him.

I have tried duck and it made him very loose so have not given that too him again.

Interesting about the stress thing, I have wondered about stress and it making him worse with the blood from his back end.


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## Summersky

I have no experience of IBD disease in cats, but we do have crohn's disease in our family.

Son takes anti inflammatories plus other stuff.

Steroids help humans, so maybe cats too. But they have side effects.

Diet makes a huge difference. There are definite triggers. I wonder whether this is true with cats. My son has to be dairy free and low fibre, but high calorie as he doesn't absorb well.

Not sure what diet would be best for a cat, but I would assume something bland and easy to digest, but rich in nutrients.

Hope someone on here can help more.


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## buffie

Meeko was taken to the vets after being sick every couple of days for a week or so.He wasnt ill and showed no signs of anything being wrong with him,but obviously there was.
After weeks of investigations/blood tests/poo tests/xrays/scan/endoscopy and biopsy Meeko was diagnosed with suspected IBD.
It is "suspected" only because although the biopsy showed slight thickening of the tissue it would need a full thickness biopsy to confirm it.
As this means major abdominal surgery it was decided not to proceed as all it would achieve was to confirm that it was IBD .
He was treated with Famotidine (antacid)...Steroid (pred)....Mirtazapine (appetite stimulant)
We had tried to change his diet but he refused to eat it.
Hills ZD Hydrolyzed protein both wet and dry
Purina HA dry
Royal Canin (thanks to Cazzer)
None of the above worked,well I should say he refused to eat them, but he is now "stable" on Purina sensitive dry and Sheba wet :yikes:,not the best food but he eats it and it has reduced his bouts of vomiting to once every 5/6 days.He has put back at least half a kilo of weight and is nearly back to normal energy wise.
The only other thing that we tried was Slippery Elm this did seem to help at first but after it was slowly reduced and stopped there doesnt seem to be any difference.
Slippery Elm | Little Big Cat


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## nicolaa123

Summersky said:


> I have no experience of IBD disease in cats, but we do have crohn's disease in our family.
> 
> Son takes anti inflammatories plus other stuff.
> 
> Steroids help humans, so maybe cats too. But they have side effects.
> 
> Diet makes a huge difference. There are definite triggers. I wonder whether this is true with cats. My son has to be dairy free and low fibre, but high calorie as he doesn't absorb well.
> 
> Not sure what diet would be best for a cat, but I would assume something bland and easy to digest, but rich in nutrients.
> 
> Hope someone on here can help more.


Thanks, it's all about sharing our experiences....interesting you say low in fibre as I've read to add fibre. The high calorie makes sense..

What side affects are there with the steroids, he has had them before for something else, but was a short course and was ok..


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko was taken to the vets after being sick every couple of days for a week or so.He wasnt ill and showed no signs of anything being wrong with him,but obviously there was.
> After weeks of investigations/blood tests/poo tests/xrays/scan/endoscopy and biopsy Meeko was diagnosed with suspected IBD.
> It is "suspected" only because although the biopsy showed slight thickening of the tissue it would need a full thickness biopsy to confirm it.
> As this means major abdominal surgery it was decided not to proceed as all it would achieve was to confirm that it was IBD .
> He was treated with Famotidine (antacid)...Steroid (pred)....Mirtazapine (appetite stimulant)
> We had tried to change his diet but he refused to eat it.
> Hills ZD Hydrolyzed protein both wet and dry
> Purina HA dry
> Royal Canin (thanks to Cazzer)
> None of the above worked,but he is now "stable" on Purina sensitive dry and Sheba wet :yikes:,not the best food but he eats it and it has reduced his bouts of vomiting to once every 5/6 days.He has put back at least half a kilo of weight and is nearly back to normal energy wise.
> The only other thing that we tried was Slippery Elm this did seem to help at first but after it was slowly reduced and stopped there doesnt seem to be any difference.
> Slippery Elm | Little Big Cat


How much does Meeko weigh now? Riley at last weigh was 4.1kg, beginning of June he was 4.83..


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> How much does Meeko weigh now? Riley at last weigh was 4.1kg, beginning of June he was 4.83..


He dropped to 4.9kg at his worst but is back up to 5.5kg now 2 days ago (vet weighed)
Regarding steroid use ,long term use does pose potential problems....
Cat Steroids: Side Effects | eHow.com..
my vet was not happy to use them long term,Meeko was on them for about 6 weeks


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## nicolaa123

Interesting about the steroids, will keep this in mind. As for Meeko, could acid reflux also contribute to his vomiting??


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Interesting about the steroids, will keep this in mind. As for Meeko, could acid reflux also contribute to his vomiting??


Sorry logged off for a bit.
The word back from the lab was that the biopsy was inconclusive as although there was pinking and thickening of the tissue "most likely caused by acid reflux", it was not clear whether acid reflux had caused the vomiting or whether the vomiting was causing the acid.


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## izzyc

One of my cats has colitis. At the moment we're able (touch wood) to manage it through diet alone. 

Colitis is irritation of the large intestine - it's a symptom not a cause and can only be 'cured' if you find out what is causing the irritation in the first place. 

Unfortunately for my cat we don't know exactly what the cause is. We know he's got several interrelated food allergies and a flea allergy, so we're managing those OK. He's fine most of the time now, but still has mild flare ups now and again which suggests there's something else going on too that we're not controlling. 

He's on RC sensitivity control most of the time, and boiled chicken if he has a flare up. 

It's especially important that cats with colitis are wormed and de-flea'd regularly, it's important to reduce the worm burden as much as possible.


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## Cazzer

My two year old NFC Karlo has IBD. His symptoms were not typical of it though. His is controlled by diet alone as my vet was very clear that he did not want to give him steroids due to his age, given the side effects. He has RC sensitivity control wet [which I am weaning him off] and he is having grau chicken with rice instead.

Remember though that the JWB is 'naturally hypoallergenic' its not a true hypoallergenic diet in comparison with the Hills, RC etc. It just means that the protein is one that the cat may still have issues with, but is of a type that a] the cat has less likely to have had b] appears to cause less problems than other proteins such as beef/chicken.

That said even the hypoalleregenic vet diets I found did not necessarily agree with the cats. When I had Sassie and Oska [both RIP] [pancreatitis] and [triaditis] we tried the RC hypoallergenic and Sassie was fine but Oska had dreadful runs.

I also find that with the RC wet Karlo is always hungry, and is full of carbs and sugar. Hence I am changing over to the Grau.

At the end of the day though it is trial and error and just finding something that works for you and Riley.


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## nicolaa123

izzyc said:


> One of my cats has colitis. At the moment we're able (touch wood) to manage it through diet alone.
> 
> Colitis is irritation of the large intestine - it's a symptom not a cause and can only be 'cured' if you find out what is causing the irritation in the first place.
> 
> Unfortunately for my cat we don't know exactly what the cause is. We know he's got several interrelated food allergies and a flea allergy, so we're managing those OK. He's fine most of the time now, but still has mild flare ups now and again which suggests there's something else going on too that we're not controlling.
> 
> He's on RC sensitivity control most of the time, and boiled chicken if he has a flare up.
> 
> It's especially important that cats with colitis are wormed and de-flea'd regularly, it's important to reduce the worm burden as much as possible.


what flavour rc are you giving I have tried the duck, but that went through him, even tho I tried only a small amount mixed with the venison. What medication have you been given?

When you say flare ups is it diarrhea or is there other symptoms? Sorry for all the questions


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## Cazzer

Karlo has the sachets which are chicken & rice. I found he was less keen on the chicken & rice trays. I think the duck ones suited him but I didn't really buy as more expensive and its not cheap anyway.


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## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> My two year old NFC Karlo has IBD. His symptoms were not typical of it though. His is controlled by diet alone as my vet was very clear that he did not want to give him steroids due to his age, given the side effects. He has RC sensitivity control wet [which I am weaning him off] and he is having grau chicken with rice instead.
> 
> Remember though that the JWB is 'naturally hypoallergenic' its not a true hypoallergenic diet in comparison with the Hills, RC etc. It just means that the protein is one that the cat may still have issues with, but is of a type that a] the cat has less likely to have had b] appears to cause less problems than other proteins such as beef/chicken.
> 
> That said even the hypoalleregenic vet diets I found did not necessarily agree with the cats. When I had Sassie and Oska [both RIP] [pancreatitis] and [triaditis] we tried the RC hypoallergenic and Sassie was fine but Oska had dreadful runs.
> 
> I also find that with the RC wet Karlo is always hungry, and is full of carbs and sugar. Hence I am changing over to the Grau.
> 
> At the end of the day though it is trial and error and just finding something that works for you and Riley.


What symptoms was there as it seems to be quite a broad range from vomiting, loose poo, blood, weight loss etc the vet has suggested a course of steroids to me and some more metronidazole to get the inflammation under control. Did your cat have the surgery to confirm the ibd? I said no to the vet to opening riley up....

Be interesting to see how Karlo does on the Grau..


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## chillminx

Nicola, so sorry to hear Riley has been diagnosed with suspected IBD. It is a miserable disease to have., but there is a lot than can be done with diet to manage it.

I currently have one cat with IBD and years ago also had another one who suffered from it severely, so I sympathise muchly with your situation. 

As Cazzer says, so much depends, I think, on finding the right food to suit your cat, & learning through trial & error what the triggers for flare-ups are. (One of which I am certain is stress).

My cat is doing well atm on RC pouches of Chicken & Rice, which fortunately he loves. He also has some Miamor Sensitive Chicken & Salmon, and Miamor Sensitive Chicken & Trout, which he also loves. But I am not sure it is a complete food, so I keep it to 20% of his diet. (Have emailed zooplus who sells it to ask them to find out for me if it is complete or not).

I found through trial and error he is allergic to beef. And he definitely 
does not get on with cereals other than rice. 

As for dry food, he has about 6 kibble a day as a treat! Either Applaws or Acana, or RC Sensitivity Control (I rotate them day to day, so there is less chance of an allergy developing).

I find it helps to keep him well hydrated, so I make chicken broth or turkey broth for him, which I store in the fridge as a jelly (having skimmed off the fat already), and he has a saucerful of that a day.

When he has had bad flare-ups (as recently) the vet gives him a one-off steroid injection which helps a lot. But I would not want him on long term steroids, as my previous IBD cat (to whom I referred earlier) had been on long term steroids before I adopted her (aged 15) and as a result she had developed diabetes!


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## izzyc

nicolaa123 said:


> what flavour rc are you giving I have tried the duck, but that went through him, even tho I tried only a small amount mixed with the venison. What medication have you been given?
> 
> When you say flare ups is it diarrhea or is there other symptoms? Sorry for all the questions


He's got the duck flavour, luckily he seems to like it ok! He's not on medication at the moment - he had Diarsanyl at the beginning when we couldn't control his diarrhea but nothing now. Vet doesn't want him on regular medication until we've tried all other options. He's ok at the moment, so fingers crossed!

Yeah by flare ups I mean diarrhea and mucousy poop. I can always tell if he's feeling poorly because he sleeps a lot and hides away in a box or under the bed


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## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola, so sorry to hear Riley has been diagnosed with suspected IBD. It is a miserable disease to have., but there is a lot than can be done with diet to manage it.
> 
> I currently have one cat with IBD and years ago also had another one who suffered from it severely, so I sympathise muchly with your situation.
> 
> As Cazzer says, so much depends, I think, on finding the right food to suit your cat, & learning through trial & error what the triggers for flare-ups are. (One of which I am certain is stress).
> 
> My cat is doing well atm on RC pouches of Chicken & Rice, which fortunately he loves. He also has some Miamor Sensitive Chicken & Salmon, and Miamor Sensitive Chicken & Trout, which he also loves. But I am not sure it is a complete food, so I keep it to 20% of his diet. (Have emailed zooplus who sells it to ask them to find out for me if it is complete or not).
> 
> I found through trial and error he is allergic to beef. And he definitely
> does not get on with cereals other than rice.
> 
> As for dry food, he has about 6 kibble a day as a treat! Either Applaws or Acana, or RC Sensitivity Control (I rotate them day to day, so there is less chance of an allergy developing).
> 
> I find it helps to keep him well hydrated, so I make chicken broth or turkey broth for him, which I store in the fridge as a jelly (having skimmed off the fat already), and he has a saucerful of that a day.
> 
> When he has had bad flare-ups (as recently) the vet gives him a one-off steroid injection which helps a lot. But I would not want him on long term steroids, as my previous IBD cat (to whom I referred earlier) had been on long term steroids before I adopted her (aged 15) and as a result she had developed diabetes!


Thanks, vet has said to keep him on d/d for now, which I am inclined to do as he has improved on it. I add water to the wet to make it bit soupy to keep his stools softer, he had rock hard stools before which caused him problems. Now he has softer stools his bum is less sore, but the blood leakage after is still a problem. The vet said he had some blood in his poo when she did the colonoscopy, but I've never seen actual blood in his poo only on his bum and from his bum after, then it was without him going to toilet so took him back to vets.

When I talk to vets after I've got his stool sample results I will ask about how long she wants to try the steroids etc.

With the stress thing, maybe I should get one of them plug in things? He gets stressed when he can't go out, like this morning as I need to collect a sample from him.....I ended up letting him out for an hour as he was getting worked up..


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## buffie

Just came across this article that I had bookmarked and had forgotten about..................
http://www.ivis.org/journals/vetfocus/19_2/en/3.pdf


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## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> What symptoms was there as it seems to be quite a broad range from vomiting, loose poo, blood, weight loss etc the vet has suggested a course of steroids to me and some more metronidazole to get the inflammation under control. Did your cat have the surgery to confirm the ibd? I said no to the vet to opening riley up....
> 
> Be interesting to see how Karlo does on the Grau..


ok Karlo had no weight loss [he is somewhat rotund!], vomiting, blood, loose poo etc the usual symptoms of IBD. What he did have was a very odd walk [he was walking on his belly in short bursts and had a very rumbly tum]. The vets were at a bit of a loss initially and he was given steroids, metronidazole. He was then got better following this. He then got worse so repeated meds. He then got better only to get worse again. Scans revealed that the lymph nodes in the intestines were very inflammed. Anyway loads of tests later we hadn't found the cause of the problem so yes we did have the biopsy which confirmed IBD. I was really surprised as having had Oska and Sassie with similar problems there didn't appear to be similar symptoms.

In hind sight what I think caused the problem was cat grass. A couple of weeks before he was taken ill I sowed some seeds. Karlo went bonkers for it. It then was thrown away whilst some more grew.....he then went mad for that and so on. Needless now there is never any cat grass in my house!

Since the diagnosis Karlo has never had any problems with his walking. He does however get the runs if he manages to snaffle the other cats food which he never had prior to diagnosis.

He was on 2 and a half sachets of sensitivity control a day. He's now on one a day plus the grau and he is fine. I'm not sure whether to carry on like this or to eliminate the RC altogether but have several boxes yet to get through


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## Lilylass

If he is stressy a diffuser may help a bit - it can be anything really, as you say not being able to get out to a new cat moving into the neighbourhood and causing a bit of a stir.

I am dreading two things about to happen - trick or treating night (Maisie *hates* the door being knocked / bell rung) and fireworks night as she gets really stressed with loud noises. I'm going to stick a note on the door politely asking people not to knock / ring - but I bet it doesn't stop some of them .

I'd have done the same as you re opening him up just to get a firm diagnosis, hopefully a bland diet will help things settle and make him more comfortable in himself. It will be trial and error and can take a while to get a grip on the triggers but once you get there, it's worth it!


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## chillminx

I was aiming to wean my cat off the RC Sensitivity pouches, but reading the link Buffie kindly posted, I am not so sure now.. The article says the most effective diet for control of IBD in cats is one with hydrolised protein or peptide, which I believe RC Sensitivity Control is. So I may keep him partly on it after all. But add on some safe foods to give him a bit of variety.


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## buffie

chillminx said:


> I was aiming to wean my cat off the RC Sensitivity pouches, but reading the link Buffie kindly posted, I am not so sure now.. The article says the most effective diet for control of IBD in cats is one with hydrolised protein or peptide,* which I believe RC Sensitivity Control is. * So I may keep him partly on it after all. But add on some safe foods to give him a bit of variety.


I think that the RC Sensitivity Control is a single protein source food.The RC Hydrolyzed is this one...........Royal Canin Hypoallergenic cat food | Royal Canin Hypoallergenic for cats

Meeko has been on Hills ZD (hydrolyzed) and Purina HA (hydrolyged) and I believe the RC in the link(kindly sent by Cazzer) but he refused point blank to eat any of them


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## Cazzer

yes Buffie is right the sensitivity control isn't hydrolysed. If anyone wants to try the z/d or wet or dry I can send them some. Oska was originally on i/d but as he was losing so much weight he was put on z/d i bought a tray/bag from medicanimal but he was PTS before it was all used. He wasn't keen on it though and much preferred the i/d


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## chillminx

Buffie & Cazzer -- it says on the RC website's list of ingredients for Sensitivity Control that it contains "*hydrolised protein*" just as I had thought

Sensitivity Control SC 27 NEW - Royal Canin

The Hypoallergenic is only available in dry food I believe?


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just came across this article that I had bookmarked and had forgotten about..................
> http://www.ivis.org/journals/vetfocus/19_2/en/3.pdf


That is really informative I've saved that..


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## Cazzer

chillminx said:


> Buffie & Cazzer -- it says on the RC website's list of ingredients for Sensitivity Control that it contains "*hydrolised protein*" just as I had thought
> 
> Sensitivity Control SC 27 NEW - Royal Canin
> 
> The Hypoallergenic is only available in dry food I believe?


I've had a look at the pouches sensitivity control pouches s/o on their website which is what I feed and there is no mention of that being hydrolysed. That said it does mention it in the SC s/o trays of the duck! I think the one you provide a link to is a new food so not sure what RC are doing whether the s/o is being replaced by the SC 27

 too!!!


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## nicolaa123

So then I would be better to try him on the z/d rather than the d/d to see if that helps him?


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## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> ok Karlo had no weight loss [he is somewhat rotund!], vomiting, blood, loose poo etc the usual symptoms of IBD. What he did have was a very odd walk [he was walking on his belly in short bursts and had a very rumbly tum]. The vets were at a bit of a loss initially and he was given steroids, metronidazole. He was then got better following this. He then got worse so repeated meds. He then got better only to get worse again. Scans revealed that the lymph nodes in the intestines were very inflammed. Anyway loads of tests later we hadn't found the cause of the problem so yes we did have the biopsy which confirmed IBD. I was really surprised as having had Oska and Sassie with similar problems there didn't appear to be similar symptoms.
> 
> In hind sight what I think caused the problem was cat grass. A couple of weeks before he was taken ill I sowed some seeds. Karlo went bonkers for it. It then was thrown away whilst some more grew.....he then went mad for that and so on. Needless now there is never any cat grass in my house!
> 
> Since the diagnosis Karlo has never had any problems with his walking. He does however get the runs if he manages to snaffle the other cats food which he never had prior to diagnosis.
> 
> He was on 2 and a half sachets of sensitivity control a day. He's now on one a day plus the grau and he is fine. I'm not sure whether to carry on like this or to eliminate the RC altogether but have several boxes yet to get through


Vet said with Riley it was probably caused by the bout of diarrhoea he had when he was young that caused ulcerations that led to scar tissue.

Hope Karlo continues to do well..


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## buffie

chillminx said:


> Buffie & Cazzer -- it says on the RC website's list of ingredients for Sensitivity Control that it contains "*hydrolised protein*" just as I had thought
> 
> Sensitivity Control SC 27 NEW - Royal Canin
> 
> The Hypoallergenic is only available in dry food I believe?


chillminx ...Royal Canin Sensitivity Control is a complete dietetic feed for cats formulated to reduce ingredient and nutrient intolerances.* It uses duck as its selected protein source and rice as its carbohydrate.* Indications that your cat may benefit from this choice include: food allergy, food intolerance, inflammatory bowel disease, diarrhoea or through a food elimination trial. It is recommended that a veterinarians opinion be sought before use. Feed for 3-8 weeks and if the symptoms disappear it can be used indefinitely. It works through a limited number of protein sources helping to reduce the risk of food allergies, a patented complex to support the barrier effect of the skin, fatty acids to maintain a healthy digestive system and a healthy skin and the inclusion of nutrients which support a balanced digestive system

RC Hydrolyzed ....Royal Canin Hypoallergenic feline diet cat food is a highly palatable, highly digestible, complete, and balanced diet formulated to meet the requirements for feline growth and maintenance. *This diet is a hydrolyzed soy protein isolate, lactose, and wheat gluten free diet that is indicated in both the diagnosis and management of adverse reactions to food*

Does this help


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## chillminx

Thank you Buffie

The RC website actually says Sensitivity Control duck alutrays contain 
hydrolised protein. But Cazzer suggests this is perhaps a new version RC is bringing out of SC.

However, going back 6 years when I used to feed RC Sensitivity to my previous IBD cat, it used to state on the pack it contained hydrolised protein in both the duck & rice and the chicken & rice flavours. So why the ingredients should have changed in recent years, and apparently now be about to change back again (according to the website info) I have no idea.  Mystifying.


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> So then I would be better to try him on the z/d rather than the d/d to see if that helps him?


I can send you some of the Hills dry ZD I took the wet back to the vets it was like plastic pate there was no way I could have expected Meeko to eat it.I also have dry Purina HA if you would like to try that.I have to say that the hydrolyzed dry is so disgusting I'm not in the least surprised Meeko wont eat it,but he is a really fussy sod


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I can send you some of the Hills dry ZD I took the wet back to the vets it was like plastic pate there was no way I could have expected Meeko to eat it.I also have dry Purina HA if you would like to try that.I have to say that the hydrolyzed dry is so disgusting I'm not in the least surprised Meeko wont eat it,but he is a really fussy sod


Thanks, but he is only on wet at the moment as the dry bungs him up too much then he strains to pass... I might try a couple of tins from the vet and see how he gets on, if he likes the wet, I can try and balance it out with some dry to help his weight gain....


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## nicolaa123

what about a raw diet? Ive been looking on the net and seen some for it - saying can reverse the symptoms and others saying it should not be given to cats with ibd??


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## Cazzer

I can send you a tin of the z/d if you want as we had that for Oska who was PTS in the summer


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## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I can send you a tin of the z/d if you want as we had that for Oska who was PTS in the summer


Yes please I would like to try it!

sorry to hear about Oska


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## Cazzer

I think it depends on what you cat has problems with. Eg if its chicken it wouldn't matter if it were dry wet or raw chiecken the cat would react the same. I tried Karlo with raw before he was taken ill and he would never eat any of it. There are people who swear by it though as being good for sensitive tums


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## nicolaa123

Do you add any extra fibre to the food?


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## chillminx

nicolaa123 said:


> what about a raw diet? Ive been looking on the net and seen some for it - saying can reverse the symptoms and others saying it should not be given to cats with ibd??


My cat was on part raw diet (beef, lamb, lambs kidneys, chicken livers) and he had a really bad flare-up. It may not have been the raw that caused it but the vet (who is actually sympathetic to the idea of raw feeding) said she thought the raw I was feeding him was too fatty for a cat with IBD.

Perhaps my cat would have been OK on a very low fat meat such as rabbit,
venison, or even wild game bird, but he doesn't like any of them

The vet said she thought it best not to feed an IBD cat with raw, simply because there is the risk of bacterial infection (salmonella) even tho not a large risk. That would cause diarrhoea which would probably trigger a flare up of the IBD.

But my thoughts are that, some cats' IBD may be caused by food intolerances, or sensitivities to additives, colourings, flavourings and fillers, and the great thing with raw is there are none of those in it, just meat/bone/offal. So it may be worth considering, tho I won't be doing it with mine as I say because of the recent bad experience.


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> My cat was on part raw diet (beef, lamb, lambs kidneys, chicken livers) and he had a really bad flare-up. It may not have been the raw that caused it but the vet (who is actually sympathetic to the idea of raw feeding) said she thought the raw I was feeding him was too fatty for a cat with IBD.
> 
> Perhaps my cat would have been OK on a very low fat meat such as rabbit,
> venison, or even wild game bird, but he doesn't like any of them
> 
> The vet said she thought it best not to feed an IBD cat with raw, simply because there is the risk of bacterial infection (salmonella) even tho not a large risk. That would cause diarrhoea which would probably trigger a flare up of the IBD.
> 
> But my thoughts are that, some cats' IBD may be caused by food intolerances, or sensitivities to additives, colourings, flavourings and fillers, and the great thing with raw is there are none of those in it, just meat/bone/offal. So it may be worth considering, tho I won't be doing it with mine as I say because of the recent bad experience.


I can understand that....when I go back to talk about treatment I will talk about food etc, plus will ask about adding extra fibre to his food


----------



## chillminx

Cazzer & Buffie -- Thought you might be interested in the following snippet:

I contacted Royal Canin Advce Line and they informed me all their Sensitivity Control wet foods (chicken & rice pouches, duck alutray & chicken alutray) contain a proportion of hydrolised protein (the liver content to be specific) but the main part of the protein is not hydrolised.

They also confirmed the only food they make at present that contains all hydrolised protein is the Hypoallergenic *dry* food. There are no plans at present to bring out a wet version of the Hypoallergenic.


----------



## Cazzer

thanks for that clarification!


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Cazzer & Buffie -- Thought you might be interested in the following snippet:
> 
> I contacted Royal Canin Advce Line and they informed me all their Sensitivity Control wet foods (chicken & rice pouches, duck alutray & chicken alutray) contain a proportion of hydrolised protein (the liver content to be specific) but the main part of the protein is not hydrolised.
> 
> They also confirmed the only food they make at present that contains all hydrolised protein is the Hypoallergenic *dry* food. There are no plans at present to bring out a wet version of the Hypoallergenic.


Ive searched about hydrolized but got bit confused, read they break it down in acid? Then I came across this http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediets-novelproteinVsHydrozd.pdf which makes sense why some people feed baby food.

On another note managed to get a sample from Riley, some of the poo was really dark and some really light and we had blood again...not so much and I'm not surprised as he has finished the course of ab's.


----------



## buffie

chillminx said:


> Cazzer & Buffie -- Thought you might be interested in the following snippet:
> 
> I contacted Royal Canin Advce Line and they informed me all their Sensitivity Control wet foods (chicken & rice pouches, duck alutray & chicken alutray) contain a proportion of hydrolised protein (the liver content to be specific) but the main part of the protein is not hydrolised.
> 
> They also confirmed the only food they make at present that contains all hydrolised protein is the Hypoallergenic *dry* food. There are no plans at present to bring out a wet version of the Hypoallergenic.


Thanks chillminx


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry to moan....but I can not wait to get rileys samples off to the vet...he has been in 3 days now and has only produced one sample which was yesterday..he has hardly eaten today, just picking at his food. He has cried and cried and cried and cried, getting himself worked up as he wants to go out. 

Hopefully can get the samples off to the vet tomorrow then next week we can talk about next steps. I will also be interested to see what his weight is, hope he has not lost more....


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to moan....but I can not wait to get rileys samples off to the vet...he has been in 3 days now and has only produced one sample which was yesterday..he has hardly eaten today, just picking at his food. He has cried and cried and cried and cried, getting himself worked up as he wants to go out.
> 
> Hopefully can get the samples off to the vet tomorrow then next week we can talk about next steps. I will also be interested to see what his weight is, hope he has not lost more....


Sounds like Riley is getting stressed out,poor boy  If only we could explain to them that it was for their own good.
Hope he starts eating properly soon ,cos without it there wont be any poop to sample  It sure aint easy this slave lark.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sounds like Riley is getting stressed out,poor boy  If only we could explain to them that it was for their own good.
> Hope he starts eating properly soon ,cos without it there wont be any poop to sample  It sure aint easy this slave lark.


ok don't laugh at me too much please, but just earlier I even pretended to use the tray myself to show him that it was ok and if he just goes (I can tell he does) then all would be ok....the things I do..:-/


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> ok don't laugh at me too much please, but just early I even pretending to use the tray myself to show him that it was ok and if he just goes (I can tell he does) then all would be ok....the things I do..:-/


 :w00t: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry couldnt help myself


----------



## nicolaa123

Hanging my head in shame here 


I've just given him his flea treatment, should have done last week, but due to vet trip thought be best to give it a week. Honestly you would have thought that I had just been horrible to him. I must look into the injection they can have as he hates the spot on once a month and i deflea every month..

He is currently sat on the coffee table giving me evils....


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hanging my head in shame here
> 
> I've just given him his flea treatment, should have done last week, but due to vet trip thought be best to give it a week. Honestly you would have thought that I had just been horrible to him. I must look into the injection they can have as he hates the spot on once a month and i deflea every month..
> 
> He is currently sat on the coffee table giving me evils....


You really do know how to make your self popular..........not


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You really do know how to make your self popular..........not


I am sure rileys revenge will be about 2am with a single claw on my face, never hard enough to hurt or mark me, but just to wake me up to say hi! As I normally get most nights!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am sure rileys revenge will be about 2am with a single claw on my face, never hard enough to hurt or mark me, but just to wake me up to say hi! As I normally get most nights!!


Followed by the heart warming smell of steaming poop :arf:  
Just as well this is your thread as it seems to have wander somewhat "off topic"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Followed by the heart warming smell of steaming poop :arf:
> Just as well this is your thread as it seems to have wander somewhat "off topic"


whooops....

back on track....i looked at a yahoo group for ibd and some of them feed baby food as its hydrolized (to reduce risk of allergies in children) if you was to add all the extras cats need could this be an option. They did not talk about adding taurine to the food on there, which was a concern..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> whooops....
> 
> back on track....i looked at a yahoo group for ibd and some of them feed baby food as its hydrolized (to reduce risk of allergies in children) if you was to add all the extras cats need could this be an option. They did not talk about adding taurine to the food on there, which was a concern..


Pass,sorry havnt a clue.PaddyPaws may be the one to ask that question to.I would have suggested hobbs but I think she must be either busy or taking a break away from PF as I havnt seen her around for a while.As far as Meeko is concerned it wouldnt matter what you added to it,he wouldnt eat it.
I'm getting a teeny bit excited if "His Highness" makes it to tomorrow it will be the longest he has gone(off medication) without being sick.(7 days)


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Pass,sorry havnt a clue.PaddyPaws may be the one to ask that question to.I would have suggested hobbs but I think she must be either busy or taking a break away from PF as I havnt seen her around for a while.As far as Meeko is concerned it wouldnt matter what you added to it,he wouldnt eat it.
> I'm getting a teeny bit excited if "His Highness" makes it to tomorrow it will be the longest he has gone(off medication) without being sick.(7 days)


Wow, I really hope it goes longer than the 7 days.......it's all about managing this illness..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Wow, I really hope it goes longer than the 7 days.......it's all about managing this illness..


The odd thing is he has eaten the same food for weeks now.This IBD is a bugger to understand


----------



## chillminx

buffie said:


> The odd thing is he has eaten the same food for weeks now.This IBD is a bugger to understand


I know what you mean Buffie, and I sympathise -- it used to be the same with one of my previous cats who had severe IBD. After a lot of trial and error I would get her stable, eating well on a particular *safe*food, and heave a big sigh of relief that at last I'd found the answer. Then suddenly she would have a really bad relapse!! It was very frustrating!

I recall my vet at the time telling me my cat's relapses were probably due to stress. But my cat led a very un-stressful life, in a quiet house, pleasing herself when she went outdoors, sleeping most of the time etc. There was nothing obvious I could pinpoint that might have caused her to get upset, that I could have addressed and changed.....

That was about 5 or 6 yrs ago, and I suppose if I had her now I would look at changing her diet to a novel protein, e.g. horsemeat, venison, or kangaroo, and home cook it myself, to see if that would make any difference. I may yet have to do that with my present IBD cat, but atm he is doing very well on RC Sensitivity Wet, Miamor Sensitive, and occasional Feline Fayre Chicken. Back to his old boisterous lively self!


----------



## chillminx

nicolaa123 said:


> whooops....
> 
> back on track....i looked at a yahoo group for ibd and some of them feed baby food as its hydrolized (to reduce risk of allergies in children) if you was to add all the extras cats need could this be an option. They did not talk about adding taurine to the food on there, which was a concern..


The problem with baby food in the UK used to be that much of it contained sugars. Even the savoury ones! Not sure if this has changed, with current more enlightened thinking.

I remember, going back 25 years, there used to be a baby food that was pure meat, and I used to feed it to my cats when they were poorly and wouldn't eat anything else. They loved it, and thrived on it! But it was taken off the market in the UK, and replaced with baby foods containing vegetables, which none of mine would touch, whether they were ill or not!

However, I am fairly sure it is possible to obtain pure meat baby food from the USA, as I recall seeing it in the stores there some years ago. Maybe you could import some?


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> The problem with baby food in the UK used to be that much of it contained sugars. Even the savoury ones! Not sure if this has changed, with current more enlightened thinking.
> 
> I remember, going back 25 years, there used to be a baby food that was pure meat, and I used to feed it to my cats when they were poorly and wouldn't eat anything else. They loved it, and thrived on it! But it was taken off the market in the UK, and replaced with baby foods containing vegetables, which none of mine would touch, whether they were ill or not!
> 
> However, I am fairly sure it is possible to obtain pure meat baby food from the USA, as I recall seeing it in the stores there some years ago. Maybe you could import some?


be worth looking into and doing bit research...

Vet called bit earlier and asked if ok with the stool sample to do few extra tests. She said to test for three things that began with t and were long names. I was out at the time so could not write it down! They are also testing for parasites and also stuff like sallmonella (sp) and there was something else i think bacterial. I said yes test for everything so we can rule out or find out any other causes for the inflamtion.

Get results back next Wednesday then we have to go back to vets for consultation..


----------



## MontyMaude

nicolaa123 said:


> whooops....
> 
> back on track....i looked at a yahoo group for ibd and some of them feed baby food as its hydrolized (to reduce risk of allergies in children) if you was to add all the extras cats need could this be an option. They did not talk about adding taurine to the food on there, which was a concern..


Hills do a Hydrolized food I think it's the z/d it's awful stuff as I am sure Buffie will agree it looks like plasticine and smells terrible.


----------



## buffie

MontyMaude said:


> Hills do a Hydrolized food I think it's the z/d it's awful stuff as I am sure Buffie will agree it looks like plasticine and smells terrible.


Disgusting bl**dy stuff :arf:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> be worth looking into and doing bit research...
> 
> Vet called bit earlier and asked if ok with the stool sample to do few extra tests. She said to test for three things that began with t and were long names. I was out at the time so could not write it down! They are also testing for parasites and also stuff like sallmonella (sp) and there was something else i think bacterial. I said yes test for everything so we can rule out or find out any other causes for the inflamtion.
> 
> Get results back next Wednesday then we have to go back to vets for consultation..


Sounds like the same tests meeko had done.The vet mentioned dna test but what that was about I'm not sure, I think it was for T-feotus.All I remember was that he was tested for damn near anything possible to be tested for and all came back clear


----------



## nicolaa123

MontyMaude said:


> Hills do a Hydrolized food I think it's the z/d it's awful stuff as I am sure Buffie will agree it looks like plasticine and smells terrible.


Oh damn I knew there was something else I had to get....was going to get a tin today to try him. Oh we'll will get one next week.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sounds like the same tests meeko had done.The vet mentioned dna test but what that was about I'm not sure, I think it was for T-feotus.All I remember was that he was tested for damn near anything possible to be tested for and all came back clear


Yes she said that one and something tri....ch? I might ask them next week if they can give me print out of his results...?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yes she said that one and something tri....ch? I might ask them next week if they can give me print out of his results...?


I was thinking the same thing,infact I was going to ask for a print out of his history from the start of this whole sag.Its been on going since begining of february and a lot of it has been lost in my head


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I was thinking the same thing,infact I was going to ask for a print out of his history from the start of this whole sag.Its been on going since begining of february and a lot of it has been lost in my head


I can't see why they would not give it....I will ask them and see..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I can't see why they would not give it....I will ask them and see..


I think they have to give the history ,if asked,after all we have paid for it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think they have to give the history ,if asked,after all we have paid for it


I asked them what the bill was so far....it's being claimed from the insurance company but was curious, I was suprised it was £510 I thought it would be a lot more for the bloods, scan, colonoscopy and the stool tests, plus the consultation fees!!


----------



## buffie

Wow that is reasonable  Meeko's total without the excess coming off is 
£1366:31.Unfortunately the claim spans two policy years so there is 2 excess's to pay  That does span 8 months though .God knows how many consults, at one point he was in and out 2/3 times a week.
2 seperate lots of bloodtesting + one for pancreatitis
xrays/scans/endoscopy/biopsy/poop testing ,and uncle Tom Cobley and all


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Wow that is reasonable  Meeko's total without the excess coming off is
> £1366:31.Unfortunately the claim spans two policy years so there is 2 excess's to pay  That does span 8 months though .God knows how many consults, at one point he was in and out 2/3 times a week.
> 2 seperate lots of bloodtesting + one for pancreatitis
> xrays/scans/endoscopy/biopsy/poop testing ,and uncle Tom Cobley and all


Wow!! I am pleased with the vet costs so far I really thought it would be so much more..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well since last Monday apart from a little bit blood after vet visit in his poo's, his bum has been so much better. He has been off the ab's for nearly a week and his bum is looking really good, not poking out, passing poo fine and no leakage of blood either!

So, once we get stool samples back and we go back if he is still ok, do you think its worth putting off any meds until he has another episode or to give him meds? I am thinking to maybe put off the meds..

Of course this depends on whether he has another episode and of course the poo results and if he has lost/gained weight...

Your thoughts??


----------



## buffie

Personally and without vet input,I would prefer to go without meds,my reasons being that if he is not showing any real symptoms you wouldnt know whether the meds were doing any good or not.
If on the other hand he starts to show any of the past symptoms you would have to rethink this.
Meeko was on steroids(pred) and still being sick occasionally,stopped them and nothing changed so they were not doing anything.
I have Meeko's "history" still reading through it,but it would seem bits are missing like the "results" of some of the blood tests and possibly other results but I am only halfway through reading it.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Well since last Monday apart from a little bit blood after vet visit in his poo's, his bum has been so much better. He has been off the ab's for nearly a week and his bum is looking really good, not poking out, passing poo fine and no leakage of blood either!


I'm so pleased Riley has been has been much better 

Lets hope he continues to improve and you find a way to control it.

Keeping everything crossed for the stool sample results.

Xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Personally and without vet input,I would prefer to go without meds,my reasons being that if he is not showing any real symptoms you wouldnt know whether the meds were doing any good or not.
> If on the other hand he starts to show any of the past symptoms you would have to rethink this.
> Meeko was on steroids(pred) and still being sick occasionally,stopped them and nothing changed so they were not doing anything.
> I have Meeko's "history" still reading through it,but it would seem bits are missing like the "results" of some of the blood tests and possibly other results but I am only halfway through reading it.


how was the history? Did it make anything clearer??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> how was the history? Did it make anything clearer??


Not sure if its much clearer but at least I have a better grip on what some of the tests were for.
Faecal tests were feline PCR tests (all clear)
Blood was tested for everything I think possible ,even an FPL test for pancreatitis
At least now if there is a question I can read up the history and see an answer (hopefully)


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not sure if its much clearer but at least I have a better grip on what some of the tests were for.
> Faecal tests were feline PCR tests (all clear)
> Blood was tested for everything I think possible ,even an FPL test for pancreatitis
> At least now if there is a question I can read up the history and see an answer (hopefully)


its good to have the history as you say any questions you can look and get the answer. I will ask for rileys when we go next week. Talking of riley he has hardly eaten again today, he went to his bowl and tried some then it was like it was fowl tasting and started licking his face.

Think I will try a different tin see if that makes a difference. Think I read somewhere another symptom can be anerexia, he does go up and down on his appetite. But i thought anerexia was more a mind issue, how can an animal display this?


----------



## nicolaa123

Her it was. Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) in Cats-Causes, Symptoms & Treatment | Cat Health Collection


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> its good to have the history as you say any questions you can look and get the answer. I will ask for rileys when we go next week. Talking of riley he has hardly eaten again today, he* went to his bowl and tried some then it was like it was fowl tasting* and started licking his face.Think I will try a different tin see if that makes a difference. Think I read somewhere another symptom can be anerexia, he does go up and down on his appetite. But i thought anerexia was more a mind issue, how can an animal display this?


Meeko went through a period of "looking at food" then walking off,as though the smell made him gag.I did find funnily enough if I took a spoonful out his dish and put it on the worktop,kitchen floor or similar he would eat it It sounds a disgusting way to feed your cat but sometimes you just have to try everything.He still has days where he picks but they are not as often
as they used to be.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Her it was. Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) in Cats-Causes, Symptoms & Treatment | Cat Health Collection


That was interesting, I found references to things I have just read in Meeko's history ,when the vet used the scope .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> That was interesting, I found references to things I have just read in Meeko's history ,when the vet used the scope .


I like that site as it gives the technical names for what they test for.. He has eaten a little bit more so bit happier..


----------



## buffie

I have to feed Meeko little and often otherwise he would waste food.He is fed 4/5 small wet meals a day,that way he is more likely to finish them.
I'm lucky that i dont work so I'm around most of the day when he needs food.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I have to feed Meeko little and often otherwise he would waste food.He is fed 4/5 small wet meals a day,that way he is more likely to finish them.
> I'm lucky that i dont work so I'm around most of the day when he needs food.


that has been the biggest worry since I took him off dry, as would leave biscuits for during the day. I feed a small meal first when I get up then put another meal down before I goto work. Come home and a meal, then feed 2-3 meals in the evening then one more before I goto bed. Thing is he never asks for food that much and I waste fair bit on days he is off food!

I thought about an automatic feeder but as I put extra water in the food, would not be the same..On a good day I can refil three times before work and 4 times in evening. I'm still wondering if a few biscuits in the day would cause much of a problem with hard poo or would help his weight..


----------



## buffie

Not something I know enough about,Meeko has some dry food but he has a different problem to Riley.Meeko never has "dire rear" just the vomiting (day 9 now ) If Riley drinks a lot and gets extra water in his wet food,maybe a small amount of dry wouldnt hurt.What does your vet think?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not something I know enough about,Meeko has some dry food but he has a different problem to Riley.Meeko never has "dire rear" just the vomiting (day 9 now ) If Riley drinks a lot and gets extra water in his wet food,maybe a small amount of dry wouldnt hurt.What does your vet think?


the vet I have now says better wet as will be easier to pass stools,so better for his polyp. I asked about dry and she said that dropping dry should not have had affect on his weight loss as only had been a short time. She wants me to stay with the wet, but said can give some dry if it gets him to put on some weight, but may make things uncomfortable on his polyp.

Think will have another chat about his eating next week, he is well hydrated from wet and added water, so if could add bit of dry for the calories and weight gain would be better....but the I have to think about the polyp!!! Its a minefield!

Oh and well done meeko, you must be sooooo happy!!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> the vet I have now says better wet as will be easier to pass stools,so better for his polyp. I asked about dry and she said that dropping dry should not have had affect on his weight loss as only had been a short time. She wants me to stay with the wet, but said can give some dry if it gets him to put on some weight, but may make things uncomfortable on his polyp.
> 
> Think will have another chat about his eating next week, he is well hydrated from wet and added water, so if could add bit of dry for the calories and weight gain would be better....but the I have to think about the polyp!!! Its a minefield!
> 
> *Oh and well done meeko, you must be sooooo happy!!![/*QUOTE]
> 
> I'm to scared to be happy  I keep looking for hidden puke
> A face to face chat with your vet is probably the best route.
> It sounds as though you have a vet who is willing to listen,it makes such a difference.
> Meeko's vet is the same,infact I think he likes to have clients who are interested in what is going on and will ask informed questions.


----------



## nicolaa123

I spoke too soon. Came home from work he was fine, let him out I had to nip to the shop. Back 15 mins later and he was at the door. He has by looks of it had a runny bum as was up his tail and also blood. I've cleaned him up but it is annoying him as he is running about like a wild thing still, normally after me cleaning him it soothes his bum but not tonight.....poor boy, I may give him the I/d to help soothe his tummy..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I spoke too soon. Came home from work he was fine, let him out I had to nip to the shop. Back 15 mins later and he was at the door. He has by looks of it had a runny bum as was up his tail and also blood. I've cleaned him up but it is annoying him as he is running about like a wild thing still, normally after me cleaning him it soothes his bum but not tonight.....poor boy, I may give him the I/d to help soothe his tummy..


Sorry to read this,poor Riley just when things looked to have taken a turn for the better,this IBD seems to have a mind all of its own .
So where does this leave you now,back on to meds again?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read this,poor Riley just when things looked to have taken a turn for the better,this IBD seems to have a mind all of its own .
> So where does this leave you now,back on to meds again?


well, I should get stool samples back Wednesday then have to make an appointment to talk over options...it maybe a small epsiode, sometimes lasts couple of days, or sometimes longer. I guess if he is ok in himself I can wait tile Wednesday, if its a bad episode he will be down there monday! Although I think would be better to get the results before I take him down as might need different meds...i will keep an eye on him.

He seemed bothered by it earlier he was quite vocal and one point went under the bed. But he has cheered up a bit now and was killing my scarf!! He has eaten a little bit...oh I really do not like this, if only they could have something and they would get better..


----------



## buffie

I know exactly what you mean  Most illnesses have a begining,a middle,and an end,IBD just seems to be endless worry, disappointment ,trial and error for owners and pets.It seems all you can hope for is to be able to manage it the best you can.


----------



## nicolaa123

Well he passed a better one last night, bit soft but no blood and no messy bum. He has been during the day also, which is bit unusual and again was ok, bit soft but formed and no blood, bit concerned about the increase in poo but I did give him some i/d yesterday as bit lighter on his tummy and meant to be effective for runny bums(worked before) plus he will not eat cooked chicken!

Roll on Wednesday and we will get last results back and I can talk with vet and move forward with it..

Has anyone had an allergy test done and what was involved/tested?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well he passed a better one last night, bit soft but no blood and no messy bum. He has been during the day also, which is bit unusual and again was ok, bit soft but formed and no blood, bit concerned about the increase in poo but I did give him some i/d yesterday as bit lighter on his tummy and meant to be effective for runny bums(worked before) plus he will not eat cooked chicken!
> 
> Roll on Wednesday and we will get last results back and I can talk with vet and move forward with it..
> 
> Has anyone had an allergy test done and what was involved/tested?


Good to read that Riley is "performing" a bit better.Cant help with the allergy testing ,Meeko didnt go down the allergy test route.rather than try that he was put on the hydrolyzed protein food,but as we found out that just wasnt going to work with him.So it was a bit of trial and error with different foods to see what if any he was reacting to.So far it _seems _that it may be chicken causing a reaction,but who knows there may be other foods that he is allergic.
Fingers crossed for Wednesday so that you can progress with Riley's treatment.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Well he passed a better one last night, bit soft but no blood and no messy bum. He has been during the day also, which is bit unusual and again was ok, bit soft but formed and no blood, bit concerned about the increase in poo but I did give him some i/d yesterday as bit lighter on his tummy and meant to be effective for runny bums(worked before) plus he will not eat cooked chicken!
> 
> Roll on Wednesday and we will get last results back and I can talk with vet and move forward with it..
> 
> Has anyone had an allergy test done and what was involved/tested?


Pleased to hear that there hasn't been any more blood or messy bum 

Keeping everything crossed for you and Riley for the results and they show nothing serious. Xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good to read that Riley is "performing" a bit better.Cant help with the allergy testing ,Meeko didnt go down the allergy test route.rather than try that he was put on the hydrolyzed protein food,but as we found out that just wasnt going to work with him.So it was a bit of trial and error with different foods to see what if any he was reacting to.So far it _seems _that it may be chicken causing a reaction,but who knows there may be other foods that he is allergic.
> Fingers crossed for Wednesday so that you can progress with Riley's treatment.


Made me smile saying his performance!! Sometimes it is!! He seems less complaining tonight so maybe the I/d is doing the job, will feed that for another day then go back to the d/d, as the d/d is higher in fat and I don't want him to loose more weight!

Right now he is on my lap purring and cleaning, he is so fussy about his cleaning regime!! Think will ask vet about the allergy test...I need to start writing down all my questions..

Is Meeko still doing ok?


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Pleased to hear that there hasn't been any more blood or messy bum
> 
> Keeping everything crossed for you and Riley for the results and they show nothing serious. Xx


It may sound horrible, but I hope they find something specific and that we can treat, rather than just trial and error managing...I hate it when he has bad time and feel useless..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Made me smile saying his performance!! Sometimes it is!! He seems less complaining tonight so maybe the I/d is doing the job, will feed that for another day then go back to the d/d, as the d/d is higher in fat and I don't want him to loose more weight!
> 
> Right now he is on my lap purring and cleaning, he is so fussy about his cleaning regime!! Think will ask vet about the allergy test...I need to start writing down all my questions..
> 
> *Is Meeko still doing ok*?[/
> 
> 
> 
> He is still doing well,it is now 12 days since he was sick unless there is a pile behind the furniture somewhere :w00t:
> Dont leave without your list on Wednesday,I guarantee your questions will have evaporated when you get into the surgery
Click to expand...


----------



## nicolaa123

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, when was the last time you hoovered behind said sofa:001_tongue:

Good he is now twelve days....lets hope that continues..

List of q's now being written..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, at just after midnight he had runs and about 6 ish this morning also had runs, luckily he sat on my bed after both times and miaowed until I got up and cleaned his tray and this morning cleaned his tail!

Today tho been ok and no problems, his bum does not look sore at all. He also has eaten better today. I was thinking if still had runs to try some white fish, but seems that he is better again as no poo since 6am ish....

Hope to hear from vet tomorrow..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well, at just after midnight he had runs and about 6 ish this morning also had runs, luckily he sat on my bed after both times and miaowed until I got up and cleaned his tray and this morning cleaned his tail!
> 
> Today tho been ok and no problems, his bum does not look sore at all. He also has eaten better today. I was thinking if still had runs to try some white fish, but seems that he is better again as no poo since 6am ish....
> 
> Hope to hear from vet tomorrow..


What a bu**er,just when things looked better .Hope you get some positive news at the vets and can get this problem under control


----------



## Cazzer

oh dear sorry to hear this x


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, no runs for 24 hours now so that's good!, maybe it was a bug of sorts..?

He seems happier today not as vocal as he has been.

Just waiting now..


----------



## nicolaa123

....still waiting....however came across this Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment very interesting..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> ....still waiting....however came across this Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment very interesting..


Any news yet ?.Maybe you should ring your vet he/she may have forgotten.
Just had a read of the link you posted ,that was very interesting.Sadly I cant see Meeko going for the boiled meat/bones/broth idea although the Bio-Kult looks possible.


----------



## sarahecp

I agree with Buffie  maybe give the a call


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Any news yet ?.Maybe you should ring your vet he/she may have forgotten.
> Just had a read of the link you posted ,that was very interesting.Sadly I cant see Meeko going for the boiled meat/bones/broth idea although the Bio-Kult looks possible.


She called it points to ibd and talking about b12 injections and the z/d or the purina h/a. Still no definitive answer and I really don't know what to do..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> She called it points to ibd and talking about b12 injections and the z/d or the purina h/a. Still no definitive answer and I really don't know what to do..


Not the answer you were hoping for  Cant comment on the b12 inj that is one thing Meeko hasnt had.Hills z/d is disgusting stuff(wet) and the dry is not much better and not sure if purina h/a comes in a wet version.Meeko had the dry and tolerated it slightly better than the z/d but still wasnt keen.
Are you going in to speak with her,has she suggested any other tests or meds that can be tried.This really is a horrible condition to try to manage.


----------



## nicolaa123

Too be honest I think I was hoping for something that had a proven medication and cure! I said I wanted to have a think about what she had said. He needs to go back in to be weighed to see if lost/gained any so be ideal to try the b12 injections.

I just don't know about the food change, if the ha is dry only it will bung him up like the i/d dry did leading it hard for him to pass his poo.

I will search the b12 thing. Not that I don't trust her, just need to see what it can do. I will reflect tonight and call them tomorrow to book appointment with her to discuss.


----------



## nicolaa123

Ha is dry only..so no good


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Too be honest I think I was hoping for something that had a proven medication and cure! I said I wanted to have a think about what she had said. He needs to go back in to be weighed to see if lost/gained any so be ideal to try the b12 injections.
> 
> I just don't know about the food change, if the ha is dry only it will bung him up like the i/d dry did leading it hard for him to pass his poo.
> 
> I will search the b12 thing. Not that I don't trust her, just need to see what it can do. I will reflect tonight and call them tomorrow to book appointment with her to discuss.


I found with the food change Meeko was very depressed,I dont know if it was just that he was feeling miserable anyway or whether the food played a part.
The only good thing with prescription foods is that you can return them for a refund if Riley doesnt eat them or it doesnt agree with him.I know there is a product I think it is Peridale Granules,which is useful either for "dire rear" or constipation.Dont know how it works but seems to be usefull for both "conditions"

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Peridale-Capsules-for-cats-and-kittens-pack-of-100/productinfo/PERC/


----------



## nicolaa123

The Importance of B12 ok so the b12 injection makes sense. Its kind of like why I have to have them every 3 months.

It took a bit to get him off the dry and only eating wet food. I know its not helped with the runny poo as such, but helps with his polyp. Before all dry, the middle bit if his bum would poke out after going to toilet which would irritate him and he would scoot until he bled. Now on wet only I have not seen him do that. Yes he has still had blood but his bum has not irritated him in the same way.

Which i think is due to a softer stool passing over his polyp!


----------



## sarahecp

I'm sorry it wasn't the answer you were hoping for  Because I don't have any experience of cats with ibd I cannot give you any advice/help sorry  but I'm hear to listen xx

I was going to ask if there are anymore tests or investigations they can do, but I'm sure you'll ask when you go to see her. 

Hopefully the B12 will help or other options they will suggest. 

I hope it can be managed quickly to help Riley and you feel better xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I'm sorry it wasn't the answer you were hoping for  Because I don't have any experience of cats with ibd I cannot give you any advice/help sorry  but I'm hear to listen xx
> 
> I was going to ask if there are anymore tests or investigations they can do, but I'm sure you'll ask when you go to see her.
> 
> Hopefully the B12 will help or other options they will suggest.
> 
> I hope it can be managed quickly to help Riley and you feel better xx


thanks..i think the only other thing is cutting him open, but I don't want to go there. I will have a chat with her when I take him, but I think for now have to try and manage the ibd.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> thanks..i think the only other thing is cutting him open, but I don't want to go there. I will have a chat with her when I take him, but I think for now have to try and manage the ibd.


Let us know what she says.


----------



## buffie

Vit B12 does seem to be a good starting point,hope it does what it says on the tin  .
If Meeko starts to vomit again I will be asking my vet about it.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Vit B12 does seem to be a good starting point,hope it does what it says on the tin  .
> If Meeko starts to vomit again I will be asking my vet about it.


Yes the more I have read the more hopeful it seems. She said that she would rather try this than to put him straight on steroids. I will ring and make an appointment with her and start the b12, but with the food I would rather him stay on the venison, but will try the z/d to see if he eats it. I don't really want him back on the dry..

Tonight Riley has had bit of blood on his bum..

So we will see how the b12 goes..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yes the more I have read the more hopeful it seems. She said that she would rather try this than to put him straight on steroids. I will ring and make an appointment with her and start the b12, but with the food I would rather him stay on the venison, but will try the z/d to see if he eats it. I don't really want him back on the dry..
> 
> Tonight Riley has had bit of blood on his bum..
> 
> So we will see how the b12 goes..


I assume it will be injections of B12,how often will Riley need them.
Fingers crossed it works,good luck


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I assume it will be injections of B12,how often will Riley need them.
> Fingers crossed it works,good luck


yes an injection every 7 days for 4 weeks. The tablets are not as good as they break down when digested...

One thing I do know from having them myself they really hurt!! Hope its different for him..they also give me a boost of energy wheni have them.... I will look forward to that with riles!!


----------



## buffie

Day 15 and Meeko gave up on his record :arf: Ah well 14 full days without any :arf:is a lot better than the past 6 months .Mark the calander and start again


----------



## Cazzer

my late persian Oska used to have B12 jabs very regularly. he used to be fine. I don't recall him ever getting stroppy after them poor lad. If he eats the z/d I wish we lived nearer and I could give you all the z/d. You aren't going to go to the Supreme by any chance are you?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Day 15 and Meeko gave up on his record :arf: Ah well 14 full days without any :arf:is a lot better than the past 6 months .Mark the calander and start again


Oh no..........how is he now..?


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> my late persian Oska used to have B12 jabs very regularly. he used to be fine. I don't recall him ever getting stroppy after them poor lad. If he eats the z/d I wish we lived nearer and I could give you all the z/d. You aren't going to go to the Supreme by any chance are you?


No, not going to the supreme, but thanks for your kind offer.....

We are going to vets I about an hour so am going to get my list of questions together. Riley has not Sussed yet a trip is happening, he will when I get the brush out as I normally brush him outside, but vet trips brushed inside...I like him to look smart!!

He can try the z/d, maybe he will be the exception to the rule!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, we are back....

My vet was lovely and let me ask all my questions and gave me answers! 

Riley's put on weight yay!! Now 4.5kg I am so pleased with this! She says clinically he looks better from the last time she saw him, makes me feel better about tests and scans.. 

Two issues going on, likelihood of ibd causing the runny poo which in turn is affecting his polyp. Polyp can not be removed as attached to muscle on his anus and removing could damage his sphincter. 

So, iron injections to help with the runny poo, which should then help with the polyp!

We have the z/d....yuck! However i mushed it with a fork added hot water to make it less plastic.........and HE ATE IT!! We talked about food, she agrees about the dry food and how it would affect his polyp, soooo if the z/d is not eaten then I can go back to the d/d. I said to her my plans of finding another food which is venison but more venison, she was ok with this. She wants to give the z/d a go and after two weeks we can discuss again about food options.

Oh and iron injections hurt for cats also  

I have the tests results as well, she printed them off, makes interesting reading. Google will get some use tonight!!!!


----------



## buffie

Good to read that Riley has put on weight :thumbsup: He is obviously not fussy with food if he is eating Z/D :arf:.What a nuisance the polyp cant be removed
Poor Riley painful injections,you will not be a popular slave  Hope they work for him.
Meeko's fine, he was sick through the night ,just a mouthful of well chewed food and water :arf: but he kindly parted with it in an easily cleaned location :thumbsup:
This is the odd thing ,if he was an outdoor cat,he could be sick outside and I would be none the wiser.Apart from when he was losing weight and having all the tests and general faffing about,he never looked ill at all.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Well, we are back....
> 
> My vet was lovely and let me ask all my questions and gave me answers!
> 
> Riley's put on weight yay!! Now 4.5kg I am so pleased with this! She says clinically he looks better from the last time she saw him, makes me feel better about tests and scans..
> 
> Two issues going on, likelihood of ibd causing the runny poo which in turn is affecting his polyp. Polyp can not be removed as attached to muscle on his anus and removing could damage his sphincter.
> 
> So, iron injections to help with the runny poo, which should then help with the polyp!
> 
> We have the z/d....yuck! However i mushed it with a fork added hot water to make it less plastic.........and HE ATE IT!! We talked about food, she agrees about the dry food and how it would affect his polyp, soooo if the z/d is not eaten then I can go back to the d/d. I said to her my plans of finding another food which is venison but more venison, she was ok with this. She wants to give the z/d a go and after two weeks we can discuss again about food options.
> 
> Oh and iron injections hurt for cats also
> 
> I have the tests results as well, she printed them off, makes interesting reading. Google will get some use tonight!!!!


I'm pleased that you had a good talk with your vet and it's great that Riley has put on weight :thumbsup:

Sound good news about the injections  not so that they will be painful  I hope they work for him.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good to read that Riley has put on weight :thumbsup: He is obviously not fussy with food if he is eating Z/D :arf:.What a nuisance the polyp cant be removed
> Poor Riley painful injections,you will not be a popular slave  Hope they work for him.
> Meeko's fine, he was sick through the night ,just a mouthful of well chewed food and water :arf: but he kindly parted with it in an easily cleaned location :thumbsup:
> This is the odd thing ,if he was an outdoor cat,he could be sick outside and I would be none the wiser.Apart from when he was losing weight and having all the tests and general faffing about,he never looked ill at all.


3/4 tin so far, but I would not say he is eating with gusto..but we will give it a go! The polyp is annoying, but hopefully if we control the poo it may get better, but he will always have it 

When riley has been sick before he runs to his litter tray to try and be sick in there. You have good point with outdoor cats they could be having problems with out their owners being aware. I would have riley indoors all the time if he did not get so stressed about it, the compromise of 2-3 hours per day, bit less now its getting colder 

I've never thought riley looked sick but I guess that im not looking at him in a clinical way as the vets do??

Hope meeko now breaks his new record!

Reading the results they took a biopsy of the polyp also. Lot of it is quite scientific! still trying to make sense of the report!


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Good to read that Riley has put on weight :thumbsup: He is obviously not fussy with food if he is eating Z/D :arf:.What a nuisance the polyp cant be removed
> Poor Riley painful injections,you will not be a popular slave  Hope they work for him.
> Meeko's fine, he was sick through the night ,just a mouthful of well chewed food and water :arf: but he kindly parted with it in an easily cleaned location :thumbsup:
> This is the odd thing ,if he was an outdoor cat,he could be sick outside and I would be none the wiser.Apart from when he was losing weight and having all the tests and general faffing about,he never looked ill at all.


I'm sorry to hear Meeko has been sick again Buffie, I hope it doesn't continue and he's feeling better soon xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I'm pleased that you had a good talk with your vet and it's great that Riley has put on weight :thumbsup:
> 
> Sound good news about the injections  not so that they will be painful  I hope they work for him.


thanks....my work friends find it amusing that both riley and me have to have b12 injections! I feel for him as brings a tear to my eye when I have them!! Poor boy..


----------



## buffie

Good luck decifering the medical jargon .Why use one word when 10 fancy ones look better 
If Meeko can manage even a week between being sick I'll be happy as it is literally only a mouthful of food.


----------



## nicolaa123

The z/d is now not really being eaten, odd nibble. I've played about with the consistency,but can't seem to loose the plastic like texture. I think I will email hills and ask them how many cats did they try it on and would their own cats eat it? Surely the hydrolozed food could be more palatable?

I'm not sure riley will last two weeks on this food! He will loose weight again im sure. I am still considering giving the raw minces a go, maybe a venison one, or was thinking that the kiwi peak venison wet food, but it has green lipped muscle in it in that article that I put link it said about the food should not be an issue more fixing the problem that processed foods have made.

think I need to do more research on the affect of food with ibd!!


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> thanks....my work friends find it amusing that both riley and me have to have b12 injections! I feel for him as brings a tear to my eye when I have them!! Poor boy..


I feel for you both  xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I'm sorry to hear Meeko has been sick again Buffie, I hope it doesn't continue and he's feeling better soon xx


Meeko says thank you  
He is normally not "unwell" when he is sick, if I didnt see the evidence I would be none the wiser It is a bit of a b*gger,just when I was begining to hope we had turned the corner


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> The z/d is now now really being eaten, odd nibble. I've played about with the consistency,but can't seem to loose the plastic like texture. *I think I will email hills and ask them how many cats did they try it on and would their own cats eat it? Surely the hydrolozed food could be more palatable?*
> I'm not sure riley will last two weeks on this food! He will loose weight again im sure. I am still considering giving the raw minces a go, maybe a venison one, or was thinking that the kiwi peak venison wet food, but it has green lipped muscle in it in that article that I put link it said about the food should not be an issue more fixing the problem that processed foods have made.
> 
> think I need to do more research on the affect of food with ibd!!


Would be interested to hear what they say


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Would be interested to hear what they say


should have been now NOT eating(on phone)!!

yes be interesting to see what their reply is I will send them one over the weekend. Riley is hungry. Do I give in and give him his other food or leave it over night?? He has nibbled at the plastic, but not really eaten today.. Vet said to try, but not leave longer without properly eating for day and half....


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> should have been now NOT eating(on phone)!!
> 
> yes be interesting to see what their reply is I will send them one over the weekend. Riley is hungry. Do I give in and give him his other food or leave it over night?? He has nibbled at the plastic, but not really eaten today.. Vet said to try, but not leave longer without properly eating for day and half....


I persevered for around 3/4 days,but he was on "Mirtazapine" which did increase his appetite but as it was wearing off he stopped eating it,so I did give in because he was miserable and becoming depressed.I reckoned that eating food which "may" make him a bit sick was preferable to him starving himself.
Funnily enough MontyMaude's cat was on Z/D and she says her cat became depressed on it too.


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok, he is now eating it, but I think more out of hunger than because he likes it, I can tell by how he is eating it..

Edit..he basically licked up the water and has hardly eaten the plastic..i will see in the morning.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I persevered for around 3/4 days,but he was on "Mirtazapine" which did increase his appetite but as it was wearing off he stopped eating it,so I did give in because he was miserable and becoming depressed.I reckoned that eating food which "may" make him a bit sick was preferable to him starving himself.
> Funnily enough MontyMaude's cat was on Z/D and she says her cat became depressed on it too.


I do not understand why they would make a food like this! All the research they could do and the "benifits" it is supposedly offers, cats do not like it!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I do not understand why they would make a food like this! All the research they could do and the "benifits" it is supposedly offers, cats do not like it!!


I know,most of the cats who are fed Z/D will have dietary issues so feeding a less than appetizing food is not going to be very well received


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I know,most of the cats who are fed Z/D will have dietary issues so feeding a less than appetizing food is not going to be very well received


yup, most bizzare


----------



## nicolaa123

Loads of info but page 7 most relevant

Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment


----------



## buffie

Am I missing something or have you already posted that link,(post 103 ) 
How is Riley ,hope he is still munching his way through the ZD :arf:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Am I missing something or have you already posted that link,(post 103 )
> How is Riley ,hope he is still munching his way through the ZD :arf:


Oh maybe I put wrong one!! Uhm I took him off z/d this morning..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh maybe I put wrong one!! Uhm I took him off z/d this morning..


Oh well,you can always say that you tried .I really am surprised that there are any cats eating it


----------



## nicolaa123

Yeah me too....damn can't find that other link now it was so informative as well!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah me too....damn can't find that other link now it was so informative as well!


You have IBD of the brain,just like me  It gets to you after a while :lol::lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You have IBD of the brain,just like me  It gets to you after a while :lol::lol:


It's the food thing that's consuming me right now! I would really like to find something that will help him. I'm annoyed now about that link!


----------



## nicolaa123

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/zorans_article.pdf

Ah this was the one!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> http://www.catinfo.org/docs/zorans_article.pdf
> 
> Ah this was the one!!


:scared:This needs a clear head to take it all in,not a head that is ever so slightly :crazy: after a busy day. 
Will read it tomorrow morning  but it does look interesting


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :scared:This needs a clear head to take it all in,not a head that is ever so slightly :crazy: after a busy day.
> Will read it tomorrow morning  but it does look interesting


There is a lot to take in with it!!


----------



## Paddypaws

buffie said:


> :scared:This needs a clear head to take it all in,not a head that is ever so slightly :crazy: after a busy day.
> Will read it tomorrow morning  but it does look interesting


 I think it's a wonderful article....but don't I don't think Meeko will agree ( it's about eating MEAT not junky food! )


----------



## buffie

Paddypaws said:


> It's a wonderful article....but don't I don't think Meeko will agree ( it's about eating MEAT not junky food! )


Might as well save my brain for something else then   Meeko doesnt do "real food" :nonod:


----------



## nicolaa123

Paddypaws said:


> I think it's a wonderful article....but don't I don't think Meeko will agree ( it's about eating MEAT not junky food! )


a lot of the stuff I am finding is mainly American! They seem to have so much more info and choice with regards to ibd....

Still researching..i need to look into the raw pre readymade food or are they just as processed as commercial cat food?


----------



## nicolaa123

I have sent hills an email about the z/d....I will be interested in their reply..


----------



## nicolaa123

well the b12 seems to have had an effect, although I guess I do not know if it is just the b12 or just the cycle of things. But! He has not had a runny bum or mucky bum and no blood from bum! Mood wise tonight he has been a little devil, Playing and attacking me like he did when he was a kitten! 

The whole food thing tho is consuming me a lot! I've looked at so many websites and information my head is spinning!! I'm thinking he has 3 more weeks of injections, if no problems he won't have to have steroids just yet. Then its the food issue to find something that won't inflame his tummy or annoy his polyp!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> well the b12 seems to have had an effect, although I guess I do not know if it is just the b12 or just the cycle of things. But! He has not had a runny bum or mucky bum and no blood from bum! Mood wise tonight he has been a little devil, Playing and attacking me like he did when he was a kitten!
> 
> The whole food thing tho is consuming me a lot! I've looked at so many websites and information my head is spinning!! I'm thinking he has 3 more weeks of injections, if no problems he won't have to have steroids just yet. Then its the food issue to find something that won't inflame his tummy or annoy his polyp!


Now I see why you chose that song  Hope the b12 is responsible for the changes and that it is the begining of the end of Riley's problems


----------



## nicolaa123

Feeling bit down about all this tonight, was happy that iron injections seemed to be working he was not eating great but ok. Then tonight runny bum all up his tail and had to clean his bum, it seems lately that the runny bum is more often than was before. The z/d is out of the question, I am still thinking raw but still looking into it plus need to get a freezer as do not currently have one.

Feel bit rubbish about it all.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Feeling bit down about all this tonight, was happy that iron injections seemed to be working he was not eating great but ok. Then tonight runny bum all up his tail and had to clean his bum, it seems lately that the runny bum is more often than was before. The z/d is out of the question, I am still thinking raw but still looking into it plus need to get a freezer as do not currently have one.
> 
> Feel bit rubbish about it all.


Oh nicola so sorry to read this .It is so depressing when you see, what you hope is a step forward, for the rug to be pulled from under you 
I would love to give raw a go (not personally) but Meeko wont entertain it 
After 8/9 months of tests/drugs and all sorts of diets Meeko is possibly as good as he is going to get I've just learned not to hope for miracles.
Hoping you can get Riley some relief from his problem soon.
IBD is a swear word


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks, it does feel like move forward then jump right back to where started! We are at vets again tonight for injection tonight so I will talk to her about food and way forward..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks, it does feel like move forward then jump right back to where started! We are at vets again tonight for injection tonight so I will talk to her about food and way forward..


Good luck at the vets,hope you and your vet can find a way to help Riley xx
Have you thought of giving Slippery Elm a try

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/


----------



## kate8888

Hi there,

Our boy (dog) was diagnoised with IBD at the age of one. We were told he would need to be on steriods for the rest of his life.

The most important thing, if your cat has IBD, is to start a novel diet. Feeding your cat the food it has eaten whilst inflammed will just continue to cause damage.

Secondly, a course of steriods is a must to get the inflammation down, it won't fix itself.

Thirdly, think about putting your cat on a probiotic. We use VSL#3. It is expensive but a miracle in my eyes. Jake is no longer on steriods and has been stable for over a year.

Slippery elm is great for when you hear the stomach grumbles. We make it into a paste and use it like that. Our boy also has L-Glutamine once a day to help keep his stomach lining strong.

We belong to a Yahoo group -IBDDogs, i belive there is one for cats - this forum has been a life saver so I would definately reccommend joining.

Hope this helps.


----------



## buffie

kate8888 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Our boy (dog) was diagnoised with IBD at the age of one. We were told he would need to be on steriods for the rest of his life.
> 
> The most important thing, if your cat has IBD, is to start a novel diet. Feeding your cat the food it has eaten whilst inflammed will just continue to cause damage.
> 
> Secondly, a course of steriods is a must to get the inflammation down, it won't fix itself.
> 
> Thirdly, think about putting your cat on a probiotic. We use VSL#3. It is expensive but a miracle in my eyes. Jake is no longer on steriods and has been stable for over a year.
> 
> Slippery elm is great for when you hear the stomach grumbles. We make it into a paste and use it like that. Our boy also has L-Glutamine once a day to help keep his stomach lining strong.
> 
> We belong to a Yahoo group -IBDDogs, i belive there is one for cats - this forum has been a life saver so I would definately reccommend joining.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks for your comments.Meeko my Raggie was on a course of steroids and it made absolutely no difference. We have tried the hydrolyzed protein food he refused to eat it and became very depressed,he is a very picky/fussy eater so changing his diet has been a nightmare.The only meds that have made a difference have been Famotidine which did stop the vomitting.After blood tests/xrays/scans/endoscopy and biopsy it is still not certain he has IBD as the thickening/inflamation of tissue is mild,lab results inconclusive,but it is the most likely cause.

ETA
Would you expect VSL#3 to be useful where occas.vomitting was the only outward symptom also is it the same/similar to Pro-kolin Enterogenic .Thanks.


----------



## nicolaa123

Second injection was ok, smaller hiss than last time! He has maintained his weight which is great news!

I spoke to her about food she would like him to try a hyper allergenic food for two weeks and is going to look into some wet options for this. Asked about raw she said I could as long as it is not a food he has had before, however she would rather him not be on raw as he I would have to be 100% sure I was adding all the right stuff, she did not think the pre mixed stuff was good idea as I would have to know exactly what went into it etc etc. she also spoke about bacteria and how that could inflame him more.

The vet is I think Eastern European (forgot to ask) she is going to find me some cat food that she fed at home that she said is generally better than what you get over here. 

So for now stick with d/d she said I could try the w/d also as it has the fibre in that can help with ibd.

So I will see what she comes up with and go from there....


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Second injection was ok, smaller hiss than last time! He has maintained his weight which is great news!
> 
> I spoke to her about food she would like him to try a hyper allergenic food for two weeks and is going to look into some wet options for this. Asked about raw she said I could as long as it is not a food he has had before, however she would rather him not be on raw as he I would have to be 100% sure I was adding all the right stuff, she did not think the pre mixed stuff was good idea as I would have to know exactly what went into it etc etc. she also spoke about bacteria and how that could inflame him more.
> 
> The vet is I think Eastern European (forgot to ask) she is going to find me some cat food that she fed at home that she said is generally better than what you get over here.
> 
> So for now stick with d/d she said I could try the w/d also as it has the fibre in that can help with ibd.
> 
> So I will see what she comes up with and go from there....


Good news that Riley has kept his weight up and the inj didnt hurt as much this time 
Which Hypo-allergenic food is your vet considering now just incase it might be something "fussy knickers" might try  Cant help with the raw food but there are a few raw feeders out there who know a fair bit about it.Might be worth asking their opinion.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good news that Riley has kept his weight up and the inj didnt hurt as much this time
> Which Hypo-allergenic food is your vet considering now just incase it might be something "fussy knickers" might try  Cant help with the raw food but there are a few raw feeders out there who know a fair bit about it.Might be worth asking their opinion.


the only one who has said is chillminx, I think, but she said was no good for her ibd cat. I may start a thread asking about raw and ibd experiences as it could be very different for an ibd cat!

Not sure on the food, she said she will do some research and let me know or leave the info with who I see next week as she is not there next Thursday, I would rather see her, but guess she needs day off! I will let you know what she comes up with!!

How is mr fussy knickers


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> the only one who has said is chillminx, I think, but she said was no good for her ibd cat. I may start a thread asking about raw and ibd experiences as it could be very different for an ibd cat!
> 
> Not sure on the food, she said she will do some research and let me know or leave the info with who I see next week as she is not there next Thursday, I would rather see her, but guess she needs day off! I will let you know what she comes up with!!
> 
> How is mr fussy knickers


A thread on raw for IBD sounds like a plan 
Would appreciate it if you could let me know if there is a food out there we havnt tried  I agree about wanting to see the same vet,I think it helps a lot as you dont have to keep repeating things.
Mr Fussy Knickers is doing well,at least I think he is.He has been sick again but only a small amount,but other than that he seems fine.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> A thread on raw for IBD sounds like a plan
> Would appreciate it if you could let me know if there is a food out there we havnt tried  I agree about wanting to see the same vet,I think it helps a lot as you dont have to keep repeating things.
> Mr Fussy Knickers is doing well,at least I think he is.He has been sick again but only a small amount,but other than that he seems fine.


this vet seems really open to discussion about everything and anything, I have read other threads about vets that just have their way and will not listen so am so pleased that I feel comfortable asking any question I have about him. In future I will ask for her but for the b12 he has to go every 7 days so can't be helped..

I will post when I hear what she suggests! I guess I am a bit limiting as I would prefer it to be wet food and there are not many wet foods out there, but we will see..

so meeko and riley must be in cohorts with each other!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> this vet seems really open to discussion about everything and anything, I have read other threads about vets that just have their way and will not listen so am so pleased that I feel comfortable asking any question I have about him. In future I will ask for her but for the b12 he has to go every 7 days so can't be helped..
> 
> I will post when I hear what she suggests! I guess I am a bit limiting as I would prefer it to be wet food and there are not many wet foods out there, but we will see..
> 
> so meeko and riley must be in cohorts with each other!!


My vet is the same,mind you I dont give him much choice ,but seriously he is more than willing to discuss/ask what I think ,which makes a hell of a difference as I feel included and a lot more aware of what is going on.


----------



## kate8888

buffie said:


> Thanks for your comments.Meeko my Raggie was on a course of steroids and it made absolutely no difference. We have tried the hydrolyzed protein food he refused to eat it and became very depressed,he is a very picky/fussy eater so changing his diet has been a nightmare.The only meds that have made a difference have been Famotidine which did stop the vomitting.After blood tests/xrays/scans/endoscopy and biopsy it is still not certain he has IBD as the thickening/inflamation of tissue is mild,lab results inconclusive,but it is the most likely cause.
> 
> ETA
> Would you expect VSL#3 to be useful where occas.vomitting was the only outward symptom also is it the same/similar to Pro-kolin Enterogenic .Thanks.


Hi there,

Our boy was very fussy with food before being treated. He would sometimes go days without food and it was horrible to watch. He was put on a special hydrolyzed diet also but wouldn't touch it and at £60 a bag it wasn't cheap! We made a decision to go against our vets and switch to raw over night- we haven't looked back since. Touch wood, Jake eats like there is no tomorrow now and this is something he NEVER did on kibble.

To be honest, I wouldn't know about the effect of VSL#3 for occasional vomitting. This is a link to where they are carrying out reseach on VSL#3 in IBD dog. It may be of some use. Probiotic VSL# 3 Reduces Enteritis in Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease | AKC Canine Health Foundation

Alsom, this is the yahoo group - it really is worth joining - felineibd1 : Feline IBD group

Hope this helps x


----------



## buffie

kate8888 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Our boy was very fussy with food before being treated. He would sometimes go days without food and it was horrible to watch. He was put on a special hydrolyzed diet also but wouldn't touch it and at £60 a bag it wasn't cheap! We made a decision to go against our vets and switch to raw over night- we haven't looked back since. Touch wood, Jake eats like there is no tomorrow now and this is something he NEVER did on kibble.
> 
> To be honest, I wouldn't know about the effect of VSL#3 for occasional vomitting. This is a link to where they are carrying out reseach on VSL#3 in IBD dog. It may be of some use. Probiotic VSL# 3 Reduces Enteritis in Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease | AKC Canine Health Foundation
> 
> Alsom, this is the yahoo group - it really is worth joining - felineibd1 : Feline IBD group
> 
> Hope this helps x


Thanks again.
My cat's symptoms are not related to loose stools,his only symptom is occas.vomitting.He will not eat raw ,I have tried him many times,even before he was ill.
The problem with cats and food is,unlike dogs they cannot go without food for long before it starts to affect their liver,this alone makes it difficult to change a reluctant cats diet 
I will have a look at the feline ibd group ,thank you.


----------



## nicolaa123

kate8888 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Our boy was very fussy with food before being treated. He would sometimes go days without food and it was horrible to watch. He was put on a special hydrolyzed diet also but wouldn't touch it and at £60 a bag it wasn't cheap! We made a decision to go against our vets and switch to raw over night- we haven't looked back since. Touch wood, Jake eats like there is no tomorrow now and this is something he NEVER did on kibble.
> 
> To be honest, I wouldn't know about the effect of VSL#3 for occasional vomitting. This is a link to where they are carrying out reseach on VSL#3 in IBD dog. It may be of some use. Probiotic VSL# 3 Reduces Enteritis in Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease | AKC Canine Health Foundation
> 
> Alsom, this is the yahoo group - it really is worth joining - felineibd1 : Feline IBD group
> 
> Hope this helps x


Thanks I joined that group a little while ago. Though the food they talk about is mainly from USA so can't get over here as some of the meds also. Did see an interesting bit about raw. That you can either lightly cook to get rid of any potential bacteria or completely cook but then is that raw?


----------



## nicolaa123

Now his frickin polyp is playing up so have been trying to stop him from scooting across the carpet which makes him more sore and licking it! Top it off I've got a stinking cold!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Now his frickin polyp is playing up so have been trying to stop him from scooting across the carpet which makes him more sore and licking it! Top it off I've got a stinking cold!


Oh dear as if it wasnt bad enough,looks like thats your w/end sorted then 
Hope Riley's butt and your cold are better soon


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh dear as if it wasnt bad enough,looks like thats your w/end sorted then
> Hope Riley's butt and your cold are better soon


I would swap with him in an instant to give him some relief!


----------



## nicolaa123

I think his polyp is infected again..looks like another course of ab's for him  

I can't believe there is nothing that can be done about it, I know removing via surgery is not an option, but wonder if they could laser it to make it shrink? Might do google search...


----------



## Cazzer

poor Riley, hope he [and you] are feeling better soon x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> poor Riley, hope he [and you] are feeling better soon x


thanks im not too bad just cough sneeze cough sneeze!! Riley is lick itch lick itch!! What a pair we are!


----------



## buffie

Sorry to read poor Riley is still suffering,would it be a possibility for you to be referred to a specialist,or is there no likelyhood of any other treatment being availabe (no disrespect to your vet).
Would Chryo-surgery be an option? One of my bitches had a mammary tumour removed by this method.
Hope you are both feeling a bit better soon xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read poor Riley is still suffering,would it be a possibility for you to be referred to a specialist,or is there no likelyhood of any other treatment being availabe (no disrespect to your vet).
> Would Chryo-surgery be an option? One of my bitches had a mamary tumour removed by this method.
> Hope you are both feeling a bit better soon xx


Thanks..I can certainly ask them about a specialist. I have looked on net and not much info on a cats anal polyp


----------



## nicolaa123

Pleased to say his bum is back to normal! Which I am pleased as I don't like him to keep being put on the antibiotics.. Been looking at food (again) saw this Kattovit Canned Cat Food: on Sale now at zooplus im making a list of foods to discuss with vet. I also want to talk to them about fibre supplements. Tho my vet is not there this week, im thinking best to wait til i see her to discuss rather than start again with another one. I am going to ask them about options for the polyp removal, i know they said surgery not an option, but i wonder if there is another way it can be removed or even just reduced. I did find some info on net and said if it is removed they can come back. Also they can turn cancerous 

As for me I got sent home from work, seems I have a sinus infection and chest infection to boot! Back on two inhalers also to stop me choking!


----------



## nicolaa123

My vet just called me as we are not seeing her tommorrow for his 3rd jab. She looked at the Purina ha and it is as thought is only in the dry. Could try the royal canine sensitive but she said it is very similar to the d/d so not much point in swapping over to that. Other than that the w/d could be an option as higher in fibre to keep his stools soft to stop annoying his polyp....

The other food she said can't get here, she forgot the name again, but said would put on my notes for tommorrow as i said i can see if it can be shipped here, so will have to see on that.

I forgot to ask her about treatment for the polyp : 

I'm still compiling a list of foods and ingredients, which i will show her when i next see her so we can discuss it, i prefer face to face rather than on the phone.

So for next couple of weeks, he will be on the d/d but then i would like him to be on a better food. But then i think to myself should i just stick with the d/d..


----------



## buffie

Hi Nicola how are you feeling now,and how is the gorgeous Riley.
Hope he is still okay in the "derriere" department .
Paws crossed all goes well with the vet tomorrow,it is a pity that you have to see a different vet but I suppose she needs a break  
It is all to easy to become "food obsessed" when trying to find a suitable food.I dont for 1 minute think that Meeko's diet is great or really "the best" for his allergies but he is happy and eating it,seems to be mainting a good weight and a lot better than he was when we were b*ggering about with it,and when you are dealing with a fussy sod like Meeko the Magnificent you learn to be grateful for small mercies


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hi Nicola how are you feeling now,and how is the gorgeous Riley.
> Hope he is still okay in the "derriere" department .
> Paws crossed all goes well with the vet tomorrow,it is a pity that you have to see a different vet but I suppose she needs a break
> It is all to easy to become "food obsessed" when trying to find a suitable food.I dont for 1 minute think that Meeko's diet is great or really "the best" for his allergies but he is happy and eating it,seems to be mainting a good weight and a lot better than he was when we were b*ggering about with it,and when you are dealing with a fussy sod like Meeko the Magnificent you learn to be grateful for small mercies


hi, im not too bad, in pain with the sinus infection but ok. Riley is currently killing leaves outside! His bum is better today not as sore. I know what you mean about food and being obsessed by it all....

How is fussy pants meeko? He is magnificent..we never see enough pictures of him!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> hi, im not too bad, in pain with the sinus infection but ok. Riley is currently killing leaves outside! His bum is better today not as sore. I know what you mean about food and being obsessed by it all....
> 
> How is fussy pants meeko? He is magnificent..we never see enough pictures of him!!


Ouch  sinusitis is horrible.I had it a few years back,was given ab's which made me feel even worse 
Riley is a brave lad,the weather here is wet,cold and windy dont think he would like it out there much.
Meeko is okay but has been sick a couple of times so his "record" is still only 14 days and doesnt look like changing any time soon.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Ouch  sinusitis is horrible.I had it a few years back,was given ab's which made me feel even worse
> Riley is a brave lad,the weather here is wet,cold and windy dont think he would like it out there much.
> Meeko is okay but has been sick a couple of times so his "record" is still only 14 days and doesnt look like changing any time soon.


he won't come in as his cat friend is also out chasing leaves and he is chasing her!!: They are funny together, she tells him off and he sits there then when he thinks she can't see he bats her tail, then he gets told off again!

poor meeko must be horrible being sick, I guess all we can do is try to manage it to the best we can..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> he won't come in as his cat friend is also out chasing leaves and he is chasing her!!: They are funny together, she tells him off and he sits there then when he thinks she can't see he bats her tail, then he gets told off again!
> 
> poor meeko must be horrible being sick, I guess all we can do is try to manage it to the best we can..


He makes such a meal of it(not literally:tongue_smilie.The dribbling ,the backward "moonwalk" and then the lets see how much carpet/bed/sofa ect we can cover in one go .Then its either off to play or stuff his face totally unconcerned by the whole thing  Strange creatures


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He makes such a meal of it(not literally:tongue_smilie.The dribbling ,the backward "moonwalk" and then the lets see how much carpet/bed/sofa ect we can cover in one go .Then its either off to play or stuff his face totally unconcerned by the whole thing  Strange creatures


when riley has been sick he always runs to his tray and tries to be sick in there! Once tho I saw him eat a mouse (i tried to stop him) swallowed it whole almost! Came in wolfed his dinner down and i told him, you will be sick and he was all over the carpet and cleaning up a mouse is yuck!

Its same when riley has runs, he cries at me and lets me know. I clean him up, he actually lays there and lifts his tail for me, or he jumps up on to the toilet pointing his bum to me. After he is clean, he his back to either trying to kill a toy or my feet!

It affects us more than it does them im sure!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> when riley has been sick he always runs to his tray and tries to be sick in there! Once tho I saw him eat a mouse (i tried to stop him) swallowed it whole almost! Came in wolfed his dinner down and i told him, you will be sick and he was all over the carpet and cleaning up a mouse is yuck!
> 
> Its same when riley has runs, he cries at me and lets me know. I clean him up, he actually lays there and lifts his tail for me, or he jumps up on to the toilet pointing his bum to me. After he is clean, he his back to either trying to kill a toy or my feet!
> 
> *It affects us more than it does them im sure*!!


Oh yes


----------



## nicolaa123

grrrrr he lost 60g this week ok not so bad in the scheme of things but still grrrr. His polyp is little inflamed so on short course of ab's to get that back under control. Food wise my vet left note to say her friend in Austria is looking into what they have and will let me know..

His temp was normal, he really did not want to be looked at tonight he hissed at being weighed and moaned a lot, which is unusual for him as he is normally good. I hope after next week I can give him a break from going for a while..

Good news tho the insurance has paid up!! My accounts in credit, told them to not give back to me as his vacs will be in December so be money to pay for them!


----------



## buffie

Thats not such good news about the weight loss,maybe he was grumpy because it was a stranger,they can be funny creaturesand he is bound to be getting p*ssed off with all the vet trips and needles ect.
Its such a relief to know that the insurance is paying up,it does take a bit of pressure off.
Hope the ab's help and he is feeling a bit happier soon.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thats not such good news about the weight loss,maybe he was grumpy because it was a stranger,they can be funny creaturesand he is bound to be getting p*ssed off with all the vet trips and needles ect.
> Its such a relief to know that the insurance is paying up,it does take a bit of pressure off.
> Hope the ab's help and he is feeling a bit happier soon.


I really hope after next week we don't have to go back for a while as yes he is getting quite fed up with it all!

As for insurance I knew they should as no reason for them not too, but always in back of mind..I had put the money aside over last couple months pay....so it was there. Now Riley can have new cat carrier (when I finally make up my mind) and I can have some new shoes


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I really hope after next week we don't have to go back for a while as yes he is getting quite fed up with it all!
> 
> As for insurance I knew they should as no reason for them not too, but always in back of mind..I had put the money aside over last couple months pay....so it was there. Now Riley can have new cat carrier (when I finally make up my mind) and* I can have some new shoes *


Definitely a treat needed for you too


----------



## nicolaa123

Good news he is back up to 4.55kg!! Bad news is the polyp is still playing up. We talked about the removal he would have to be referred but she said the place it is there is a high chance he would be incontinent after....what is lesser of two evils?? Spoke about what could happen if left, she said there was no malignant cells found on biopsy but that's not to say that there was not some malignant cells further down or that in time it could turn malignant. I would have to keep an eye on his polyps for changes in size, increased bleeding etc..

I don't know what to do as it would make him miserable if he was incontinent as he likes to be clean, hence why he scoots or asks me to clean him if he has had a runny bum. I really don't know what would be the best option??

Food wise her friend in Austria suggested vet concept in reindeer or kangaroo flavour..so will have a search of it and see where I can get it from, cost and ingredients..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news he is back up to 4.55kg!! Bad news is the polyp is still playing up. We talked about the removal he would have to be referred but she said the place it is there is a high chance he would be incontinent after....what is lesser of two evils?? Spoke about what could happen if left, she said there was no malignant cells found on biopsy but that's not to say that there was not some malignant cells further down or that in time it could turn malignant. I would have to keep an eye on his polyps for changes in size, increased bleeding etc..
> 
> I don't know what to do as it would make him miserable if he was incontinent as he likes to be clean, hence why he scoots or asks me to clean him if he has had a runny bum. I really don't know what would be the best option??
> 
> Food wise her friend in Austria suggested vet concept in reindeer or kangaroo flavour..so will have a search of it and see where I can get it from, cost and ingredients..


Good news about the weight increase but not so good news about the polyp.
It is a very difficult choice,not one I would like to be having to make.All I will say is that ,if I had the choice ,I would go for a referral to a specialist to find out just what the risks and options are.
No disrespect to your vet,but a specialist will have far greater knowledge of the problems and the procedures available,not that I'm saying your vet isnt correct in what she says but I would want to at ,least know the full extent of the options and their consequences.I hope there is something that can be done to at least ease poor Riley's symptoms.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good news about the weight increase but not so good news about the polyp.
> It is a very difficult choice,not one I would like to be having to make.All I will say is that ,if I had the choice ,I would go for a referral to a specialist to find out just what the risks and options are.
> No disrespect to your vet,but a specialist will have far greater knowledge of the problems and the procedures available,not that I'm saying your vet isnt correct in what she says but I would want to at ,least know the full extent of the options and their consequences.I hope there is something that can be done to at least ease poor Riley's symptoms.


That's a good idea to get more info from referral. Vet was up front about it and said its out of scope for them. I want to give him a little break from vets as tonight he got so stressed before we went it was horrible I was nearly in tears as he was sort of shaking..poor boy.

Do you think it would be bad to look at the referral in January, just to give him couple of months off, try the change of food to see if that helps?


----------



## buffie

Not at all,I think you both need a few weeks as far away as possible from anything vet related.
Meeko was becoming more and more miserable with all his vet visits.Some weeks we were there 3-4 times because he was not well/looked in pain ect.as soon as the meds and vet visits stopped and he was allowed to go back on to a more normal diet ,he changed back to a happier cat.
Unless he becomes worse he is on a 6 month break to see how he goes.
He still has the option of a referral to the Edinburgh Vet School if we cant get him stable.My vet has already been in touch with them and there are other options to try,but most require invasive surgery hence the reluctance .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not at all,I think you both need a few weeks as far away as possible from anything vet related.
> Meeko was becoming more and more miserable with all his vet visits.Some weeks we were there 3-4 times because he was not well/looked in pain ect.as soon as the meds and vet visits stopped and he was allowed to go back on to a more normal diet ,he changed back to a happier cat.
> Unless he becomes worse he is on a 6 month break to see how he goes.
> He still has the option of a referral to the Edinburgh Vet School if we cant get him stable.My vet has already been in touch with them and there are other options to try,but most require invasive surgery hence the reluctance .


he needs a break that's for sure! Hard with animals as you can't explain why you are doing it!

He is back in December for his yearly jabs and health check so will have a good 6 weeks break. I'm going to keep him in for a few days also as find this also helps..going to get some ear plugs or maybe move out!!:yikes::yikes:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> he needs a break that's for sure! Hard with animals as you can't explain why you are doing it!
> 
> He is back in December for his yearly jabs and health check so will have a good 6 weeks break. I'm going to keep him in for a few days also as find this also helps..going to get some ear plugs or maybe move out!!:yikes::yikes:


Good luck on that one .If it helps him then it is for his own good,but how the hell do you explain that to a cat  .


----------



## nicolaa123

Was so nice not to have to goto the vets tonight!! Rileys bum seems to have calmed down a bit, tho past couple of days he has not really been eating so much..however thanks to cazzer we had a package of kangaroo to try tonight.

He had tried to open it himself soooo I put small amount in his bowl and omg he cleaned his bowl, something I have not seen with him really!

I've made couple more meals mixing it in with the d/d and that has been devoured as well!! Will give last meal of d/d so as not to overload him..

I wonder tho as its a novel protein whether it should even be a problem if he has a new food like this without the mixing in stage...but will do as precaution..

Sooooo looking forward to the reindeer coming and empty bowls and clean bums.....i hope....


----------



## buffie

How exciting  I so hope this helps Riley,it is a bit sad when we get excited about cat food  
I was getting hopeful with Meeko,I had tried him again with the hills z/d dry food and he ate it  So he has been having that along with his wet food instead of his "purina sensitive"and he hadnt been sick for 9 days but he was today  so back to the drawing board Hopefully it is cutting down the frequency of him being sick.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> How exciting  I so hope this helps Riley,it is a bit sad when we get excited about cat food
> I was getting hopeful with Meeko,I had tried him again with the hills z/d dry food and he ate it  So he has been having that along with his wet food instead of his "purina sensitive"and he hadnt been sick for 9 days but he was today  so back to the drawing board Hopefully it is cutting down the frequency of him being sick.


oh no....its so hard when you think you have made some progress then back to square one..when I get the reindeer do you (well meeko) want to try a tin?? The kangaroo has had a mental affect on riley he has had so much energy tonight:yikes: not sure I will get much sleep tonight :incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> oh no....its so hard when you think you have made some progress then back to square one..when I get the reindeer do you (well meeko) want to try a tin?? The kangaroo has had a mental affect on riley he has had so much energy tonight:yikes: not sure I will get much sleep tonight :incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato:


If you dont mind I would like to give it a go.He is such a fussy sod I have given up trying new food unless I can get individual tins , it always ends up in a fox


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If you dont mind I would like to give it a go.He is such a fussy sod I have given up trying new food unless I can get individual tins , it always ends up in a fox


no problem pm me your address and will send a tin, when it comes..look at the vet-concept site they have a lot of foods for different problems..they also have a horsemeat that is a complete food..

Hedgehogs here eat quite well!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> no problem pm me your address and will send a tin, when it comes..look at the vet-concept site they have a lot of foods for different problems..they also have a horsemeat that is a complete food..
> 
> Hedgehogs here eat quite well!!


Will do  ,hobbs tried to get me to order horsemeat but I just couldnt,my daughter eats/sleeps/works with horses and her mare was put to sleep (aged 37) just a few months ago


----------



## nicolaa123

Aw I understand about the horse thing, yeah would not seem right!

Well try some Rudolph..if not maybe the skippy!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the pouch of skippy went down well....and so far has not made an appearance at the other end in a bad way..just waiting now for Rudolph to come and hopefully will have the same result..

Really hope it comes soon as riley is not too happy about just having the venison anymore and is now not eating ad much again


----------



## chillminx

Hi Nicola, my Vet Concept food arrived a couple of days ago! I had ordered the reindeer, kangaroo, and the duck. The kangaroo and the duck have gone down very well indeed with my cat, but not the reindeer unfortunately, in spite of me hiding it under some of the food he likes!! Still I suppose two out of three ain't bad!

Have your tried Riley with the reindeer yet? If he likes it, I am happy to send you the remaining tins of it that I have. 

I am impressed with the quality of the VC foods. I shall definitely be ordering again from them. My OH has just gone to the bank to pay the invoice in cash (euros) so we'll see what the transfer fee will be.....but I thought the shipping cost was quite reasonable (5 euros for one and a half kilos).


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Hi Nicola, my Vet Concept food arrived a couple of days ago! I had ordered the reindeer, kangaroo, and the duck. The kangaroo and the duck have gone down very well indeed with my cat, but not the reindeer unfortunately, in spite of me hiding it under some of the food he likes!! Still I suppose two out of three ain't bad!
> 
> Have your tried Riley with the reindeer yet? If he likes it, I am happy to send you the remaining tins of it that I have.
> 
> I am impressed with the quality of the VC foods. I shall definitely be ordering again from them. My OH has just gone to the bank to pay the invoice in cash (euros) so we'll see what the transfer fee will be.....but I thought the shipping cost was quite reasonable (5 euros for one and a half kilos).


Mine was dispatched yesterday, how long did yours take sorry cant remember when you ordered? What is the reindeer like, is it a pâté or course pâté? If food goes well I will get kangaroo on next one also. I'm pleased the quality is good, can you take photo of reindeer one? Can't wait to get mine


----------



## chillminx

The reindeer is a coarse pate type. Sorry Nicola, can't take a photo as I have thrown out the last of the 100 gram tin of reindeer, as all my cats refused to eat it, and I don't want to open a fresh tin. However, all three of the flavours (reindeer, duck and kangaroo) look very similar in texture.

It cost £10 in bank transfer fees to pay the invoice. OH was disapproving (he went to the bank as he was in town) and has convinced me this is too expensive  So unless I can find a cheaper way to pay I won't be ordering again. 

I contacted the company to ask what their timeline is for introducing credit card or Paypal facilities. Also, asked, as per your suggestion, if they would consider a joint payment from you and me, (+ any other FM who wants to join us) but would deliver to our individual addresses. Will let you know their response.

Edit: I ordered at the end of last week as I recall.


----------



## nicolaa123

Be interesting to hear what they say!


----------



## Cazzer

Bearing in mind I've got a cat food mountain [would probably feed my 7 for a good four months] what did I do today????? Spend £160 on cat food or course!!!! 

Karlo was doing splendidly on his chicken Grau but unfortunately Kgosi wasn't . Since we've stopped free feeding the Grau Kgosi hasn't had the runs  Its a pain though as had just received 72 tins of chicken grau from zooplus.

Both Karlo and Kgosi are doing ok on ropocat chicken [and only have 4 tins left :nonod:] so bought Floyds entire stock and because it took me over the 30kg I then bought enough food to make it up to 60kgs. OH is not going to be happy about that :001_tongue:

look forward to hearing how the vet concept food goes down with everyones cats. Not that I think it will be an option to free feed here given the number of cats. Still as long as I can free feed the ropocat I will be happy. Just to have one food the cat sitter can give all 7 when we are away will be wonderful, will save a fortune on the RC sensitivity control which up until now they all ate when we go away!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

The actual cost of the food I think is quite good, 5 euros for delivery is good, it is mainly the bank transfer cost, cheapest from my research so far is Halifax online transfer is £9.50 with £2 off on the first 3 transfers! The post office did free sepa payments over £250 but could not find cost for under that.

I've put suggestion to my bank that they lower the cost of a sepa payment, especially if done online!

Will try for more info on post office sepa payments.

When I spoke to them, she said they are getting a bigger company so the credit card payment option should happen. Soooo more people that order and ask, hopefully it will be brought in sooner!!

Cazzer I would love to see where you keep all your food


----------



## Cazzer

yes just had a look at the 400g tins. They are pretty good price wise [ok far more than Grau/Ropocat] but on a par with Om nom nom which I've ordered a few tins of as it is pure chicken.

Nicola - there are four cupboards in kitchen full of food. Also under the stairs is mainly food. There is an over flow on the coffee table in lounge waiting for space elsewhere. Plus 116 tins on way from Floyds with no where to go


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> yes just had a look at the 400g tins. They are pretty good price wise [ok far more than Grau/Ropocat] but on a par with Om nom nom which I've ordered a few tins of as it is pure chicken.
> 
> Nicola - there are four cupboards in kitchen full of food. Also under the stairs is mainly food. There is an over flow on the coffee table in lounge waiting for space elsewhere. Plus 116 tins on way from Floyds with no where to go


For me it will work out lot less than the hills..


----------



## AngelaWB

Just joined Pet Forum and have been glancing through this thread. I have 4 cats, but 1 has a problem... 

I have an ex-breeding Pixie Bob who I took in 2 years ago (she's 7 now). She's had a dodgy tum in the past so I believe, however nearly 12 months ago she started having constant very stinky diarrhea (liquidy). She's tried different diets from boiled chicken thigh with pumpkin and probiotics, Royal Canin (which she wouldn't eat), to Lilys Kitchen, Herrmans, Porta 21. She's stayed at the vets to try to get her to eat a stronger probiotic (she's stubborn and will starve rather than give in) - nothing is working. She's currently on homeopathic treatments (go to a homeopathic vet), but she's no better. Her weight has dropped from nearly 7kg to approx 4.5kg. She's a difficult cat and it's very dangerous to try to get tablets into her mouth, even one of her vets said she'd need to be sedated to do ANYTHING with.

She's had fecal tests for parasites and for tritrichommosis (spelling??), all negative. I've emailed Floyds to enquire about purchasing Petnatur (no response yet) - the elimination diet continues.

I'm at my wits end. I asked the vet about Colitis, but she said the same as someone on here, that is a symptom, not the cause.

Due to the fact that she constantly stinks (and I mean REALLY stinks), she's currently living in the cat summer house (big 12 x 10 cat run and kennel area which she has lights, a radio, duvet and heat pads, the other cats keep her company in the day), she's had her anal glands expressed, but this still hasn't helped to alleviate the smell.

Is Doris' case similar to what others are experiencing. It's been constant for months, she doesn't vomit, has good appetite when she feels like it, but can lose her appetite for a few days, weight loss, smelly.

Thanks.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Just joined Pet Forum and have been glancing through this thread. I have 4 cats, but 1 has a problem...
> 
> I have an ex-breeding Pixie Bob who I took in 2 years ago (she's 7 now). She's had a dodgy tum in the past so I believe, however nearly 12 months ago she started having constant very stinky diarrhea (liquidy). She's tried different diets from boiled chicken thigh with pumpkin and probiotics, Royal Canin (which she wouldn't eat), to Lilys Kitchen, Herrmans, Porta 21. She's stayed at the vets to try to get her to eat a stronger probiotic (she's stubborn and will starve rather than give in) - nothing is working. She's currently on homeopathic treatments (go to a homeopathic vet), but she's no better. Her weight has dropped from nearly 7kg to approx 4.5kg. She's a difficult cat and it's very dangerous to try to get tablets into her mouth, even one of her vets said she'd need to be sedated to do ANYTHING with.
> 
> She's had fecal tests for parasites and for tritrichommosis (spelling??), all negative. I've emailed Floyds to enquire about purchasing Petnatur (no response yet) - the elimination diet continues.
> 
> I'm at my wits end. I asked the vet about Colitis, but she said the same as someone on here, that is a symptom, not the cause.
> 
> Due to the fact that she constantly stinks (and I mean REALLY stinks), she's currently living in the cat summer house (big 12 x 10 cat run and kennel area which she has lights, a radio, duvet and heat pads, the other cats keep her company in the day), she's had her anal glands expressed, but this still hasn't helped to alleviate the smell.
> 
> Is Doris' case similar to what others are experiencing. It's been constant for months, she doesn't vomit, has good appetite when she feels like it, but can lose her appetite for a few days, weight loss, smelly.
> 
> Thanks.


Hi..there are more tests your vet can do to see if colitis or ibd, might be worth speaking to your vet about it.

As for symptoms, Riley has had runny tum, weight loss, not so much smell but I do not have great sense of smell! When I've had to clean him then yes his bum has smelt of poo, some better than others..

Has vet given any antibiotics to help at all? Checked bloods?

As for food, that is hard, I can suggest keeping a food diary and noting any differences, also starting with a novel protein or if your cat will tolerate it a hydrolized food.


----------



## AngelaWB

Thanks Nicola. The smell is really evident from quite a few feet away, phew! 

She's due to go back to the vet in a couple of weeks time, so will have another discussion with the vet then. The main difficulty with her is her reluctance to eat anything with tablets or powders in it, and she is quite vicious if you try to give her any medication (never known a cat like her, I've always been able to medicate feral cats etc, but this one, my God I think she's crossed with a tiger!)

Thanks for your response. :smile5:


----------



## nicolaa123

Can they not inject antibiotics at the vets, if tablets are a no no?


----------



## AngelaWB

They don't believe antibiotics will work with her condition. I've just bought a natural digestor, IF she will eat it, maybe it will help.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> They don't believe antibiotics will work with her condition. I've just bought a natural digestor, IF she will eat it, maybe it will help.


sorry im not at home right or, just on wayback from vets as had to get couple tins of food..

Anyway have they said what condition is? The ab riley is on also acts as an anti inflamatory agents so helps to calm things on the inside also..


----------



## chillminx

Nicola -- I just had a reply from Vet Concept. They said the company has no plans to introduce payment by Credit Card or by Paypal in the near future.

Also, they are not willing to accept joint payments from 2 or more people, with the goods going to different addresses. They say it would be too complicated to process.

The only thing they could suggest is using SEPA (which you have already mentioned). This is the system where payment is transferred direct from your own bank account to the foreign merchant's bank account. When I contacted my bank they said it costs a basic £8 to send any amount of money this way. So that is a little bit cheaper than the rate we paid yesterday on a basic foreign transfer. However, this service is not available on line in the UK, so would mean going into the bank in person to make the transaction.

If I were going to be placing a very large order I might consider the SEPA option ,as I do think the VC food is good quality. However it turns out my cat is not that keen on the duck, and refuses the reindeer. The only one he loves is the kangaroo.

As kangaroo is available from Integra, through zooplus, I think I will go back to ordering that and forget about the VC foods for now.

I am also going to give the tins of Hermanns organic chicken (from zooplus) a go too. It is made for dogs so shall need to add taurine to it. Have you tried that for Riley? They also do beef or turkey.

Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food and Pet Accessories at Zooplus

Only snag is having to order 6 tins x 400 grams, rather a lot if it is not suitable for my cat. Though I could always donate it to the local Dog Shelter!


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola -- I just had a reply from Vet Concept. They said the company has no plans to introduce payment by Credit Card or by Paypal in the near future.
> 
> Also, they are not willing to accept joint payments from 2 or more people, with the goods going to different addresses. They say it would be too complicated to process.
> 
> The only thing they could suggest is using SEPA (which you have already mentioned). This is the system where payment is transferred direct from your own bank account to the foreign merchant's bank account. When I contacted my bank they said it costs a basic £8 to send any amount of money this way. So that is a little bit cheaper than the rate we paid yesterday on a basic foreign transfer. However, this service is not available on line in the UK, so would mean going into the bank in person to make the transaction.
> 
> If I were going to be placing a very large order I might consider the SEPA option ,as I do think the VC food is good quality. However it turns out my cat is not that keen on the duck, and refuses the reindeer. The only one he loves is the kangaroo.
> 
> As kangaroo is available from Integra, through zooplus, I think I will go back to ordering that and forget about the VC foods for now.
> 
> I am also going to give the tins of Hermanns organic chicken (from zooplus) a go too. It is made for dogs so shall need to add taurine to it. Have you tried that for Riley? They also do beef or turkey.
> 
> Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food and Pet Accessories at Zooplus
> 
> Only snag is having to order 6 tins x 400 grams, rather a lot if it is not suitable for my cat. Though I could always donate it to the local Dog Shelter!


that's a real shame about the payment thing. I am suprised that your bank does not do an online payment for sepa..i got my parcel today, riley likes the reindeer, it is good food and he has to really chew it also so should be good for his teeth..

I will see how it works out tummy wise over next few days..


----------



## chillminx

AngelaWB -- it is unusual for a cat with bowel problems to smell so bad. 
Do you think maybe it is because she is passing intestinal wind (gas) perhaps? Or because she is not cleaning her bottom after a poo?

If it is due to her passing wind, it might be due to the probiotics, as these caused a similar problem in one of my previous cats who had IBD, and as a result that treatment had to be discontinued.

*Pre-biotics* are renowned for causing wind (gas), and some probiotics also contain these.

Other things that can cause wind in cats (and in humans!) are veggies such as broccoli, potatoes, any leafy green vegetables, and even squash. So I would avoid giving her any foods that contain those.

Cereals also, including rice, can also cause wind. One of my cats gets bad wind if he eats anything with rice in.

I would try your cat on just a diet of plain chicken (either boiled or pot roast in the oven) with some of the cooking broth. Or some plain steamed white fish with some of the fishy water. A few days on that might settle her gut.

As you say, "colitis" is a symptom of IBD, and IBD can be caused by food intolerances, and by stress, or can be idiopathic. If stress is a factor with your cat, then being an inpatient at the vets is likely to make her symptoms worse unfortunately. (sorry).

My own cat who has IBD, is also a faddy eater, so I sympathise very much with you. It is difficult to find foods he will eat that are safe for him. 
Atm, he is on Grain Grain free canned (fishy flavours), Miamor Sensitive, and RC Sensitivity Control. Every few days I also give him home-cooked chicken or turkey, with some seared lamb kidneys, chicken hearts, and occasionally 
chicken livers, -- to stop him getting bored with his diet! He is doing well on this diet, has had no attacks of colitis for months!

As with your cat, I cannot hide medicines or supplements (such as taurine) in his food, as he refuses to touch it. Luckily he is very co-operative at having 
medicines put directly down his throat! As your cat is not, have you tried using Pill Pockets? They are acceptable to most cats, and can be bought on amazon. You hide the pill inside the pocket which is a soft malleable substance.


----------



## chillminx

Nicola, if the reindeer flavour agrees with him, I am happy to send you the remaining 100 gram tins I have, as none of my cats will eat it, sadly Let me know, OK?


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola, if the reindeer flavour agrees with him, I am happy to send you the remaining 100 gram tins I have, as none of my cats will eat it, sadly Let me know, OK?


Thanks I will..he is currently playing in the empty box it came in..

He has finished his course of ab's I was wondering whilst I change his food, if I should get another course just to help with things or not? He has not had an issue for getting on for 5 days..which has been lovely..


----------



## chillminx

Well, if it was me, I'd wait and see how things go on the new diet, as hopefully he won't need more antib's. 

Fingers crossed

Edit: OH has found something on his bank website called "Global Web Payment system, for making payments abroad, and 
it can be done on line through the banking system. Costs £4.75 per transaction. Have you heard of this? I will try and find out about it from my own bank.....


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Well, if it was me, I'd wait and see how things go on the new diet, as hopefully he won't need more antib's.
> 
> Fingers crossed
> 
> Edit: OH has found something on his bank website called "Global Web Payment system, for making payments abroad, and
> it can be done on line through the banking system. Costs £4.75 per transaction. Have you heard of this? I will try and find out about it from my own bank.....


Oh will have a look into it..still need to speak with post office too about theirs..

Riley won't eat the reindeer mixed with the venison..do you think be ok to not mix or better to persevere with mixing?


----------



## chillminx

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley won't eat the reindeer mixed with the venison..do you think be ok to not mix or better to persevere with mixing?
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason I know of for mixing a *new* food with an *old* food would be to make it more acceptable to him (taste-wise) whilst he is getting used to it.
> 
> As he likes the VC reindeer and will eat it on its own, then I see no problem with that.
Click to expand...


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> nicolaa123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason I know of for mixing a *new* food with an *old* food would be to make it more acceptable to him (taste-wise) whilst he is getting used to it.
> 
> As he likes the VC reindeer and will eat it on its own, then I see no problem with that.
> 
> 
> 
> he has turned his nose up at the reindeer tonight! Or maybe as its so much more protein he is still full from his breakfast? I will see how he is at supper time..
Click to expand...


----------



## chillminx

I do find with the VC foods they keep my cat satisfied for longer, which must be due to the high levels of protein I am sure. As he is such a greedy boy this is a relief as it means he stops pestering me so much for food all day


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> I do find with the VC foods they keep my cat satisfied for longer, which must be due to the high levels of protein I am sure. As he is such a greedy boy this is a relief as it means he stops pestering me so much for food all day


maybe that could be it, I will know later when its supper time..how much are you feeding of it? On the hills riley was about 100-150g a day..so not sure how this will translate with the new food.

Oh and another day and no bum problems..not getting too hopeful as yet, but omg its so nice not to have to clean him up every day! You know I've probably just jinxed myself now..


----------



## Cazzer

hope he's not fed up of the reindeer already!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> hope he's not fed up of the reindeer already!


Not sure..he has phases of not really eating so much, then phases of eating a normal amount so it's difficult to know with him! I put some venison down and he had about 4 mouthfuls then stopped  he is now sleeping on my leg..

Stupid me tho, should have ordered reindeer and kangaroo, but didn't. So put order in today for some kangaroo..

Cazzer will post you tin of reindeer Monday ish..it's really good food, I wondered also if as with this food he has to chew as the venison is a smooth pâté, if he is bit lazy to chew  and prefers to slurp??

Will keep trying tho as even if he only eats a small bit it's better for him..


----------



## AngelaWB

chillminx said:


> AngelaWB -- it is unusual for a cat with bowel problems to smell so bad.
> Do you think maybe it is because she is passing intestinal wind (gas) perhaps? Or because she is not cleaning her bottom after a poo?
> 
> If it is due to her passing wind, it might be due to the probiotics, as these caused a similar problem in one of my previous cats who had IBD, and as a result that treatment had to be discontinued.
> 
> *Pre-biotics* are renowned for causing wind (gas), and some probiotics also contain these.
> 
> Other things that can cause wind in cats (and in humans!) are veggies such as broccoli, potatoes, any leafy green vegetables, and even squash. So I would avoid giving her any foods that contain those.
> 
> Cereals also, including rice, can also cause wind. One of my cats gets bad wind if he eats anything with rice in.
> 
> I would try your cat on just a diet of plain chicken (either boiled or pot roast in the oven) with some of the cooking broth. Or some plain steamed white fish with some of the fishy water. A few days on that might settle her gut.
> 
> As you say, "colitis" is a symptom of IBD, and IBD can be caused by food intolerances, and by stress, or can be idiopathic. If stress is a factor with your cat, then being an inpatient at the vets is likely to make her symptoms worse unfortunately. (sorry).
> 
> My own cat who has IBD, is also a faddy eater, so I sympathise very much with you. It is difficult to find foods he will eat that are safe for him.
> Atm, he is on Grain Grain free canned (fishy flavours), Miamor Sensitive, and RC Sensitivity Control. Every few days I also give him home-cooked chicken or turkey, with some seared lamb kidneys, chicken hearts, and occasionally
> chicken livers, -- to stop him getting bored with his diet! He is doing well on this diet, has had no attacks of colitis for months!
> 
> As with your cat, I cannot hide medicines or supplements (such as taurine) in his food, as he refuses to touch it. Luckily he is very co-operative at having
> medicines put directly down his throat! As your cat is not, have you tried using Pill Pockets? They are acceptable to most cats, and can be bought on amazon. You hide the pill inside the pocket which is a soft malleable substance.


Hi, she does get awful wind, she also doesn't clean herself properly sometimes, but even when she's clean she still smells. I did have her on plain chicken and broth for several months, I tried it with various natural remedies as advised by the breeder, then have tried different foods.

I have emailed the company that's mentioned on here a few times, Floyds, regarding feed, but have not received a response from them. I was thinking of trying Petnaur. She did have RC Sensitive for a while, but that made her much worse. I try to keep her on a cereal free diet.

Pill pockets?? I've never heard of these, I will have a look on amazon.

The vet hasn't actually given a diagnosis as yet, but suspects a food allergy.

It's a relief to actually know that others have the same problem too.

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## nicolaa123

Might be worth a course of ab's to see if helps calm down the tummy, Riley does respond well to metronidazole, seems to help both his polyp and the runny bum..could you ask vet to see if worth yours to try?


----------



## nicolaa123

Damn it, knew I had spoken to soon. Ok not very bad but messy bum and his polyp is irritating him. I don't think it was reindeer as he has not had any for 24 hours, just the venison as he wasn't interested in the reindeer, yesterday so much.. kangaroo should be here soon so will try that and I might order some other foods too. 

Could this also be linked to him finishing course of ab's..he seems to do so much better when he is on them..but long term surely he can't stay on them for good??


----------



## Cazzer

so sorry to hear this Nicola x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> so sorry to hear this Nicola x


Thanks..I know we are at start of long journey to sort it, but can't help sometimes wanting to scream!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Damn it, knew I had spoken to soon. Ok not very bad but messy bum and his polyp is irritating him. I don't think it was reindeer as he has not had any for 24 hours, just the venison as he wasn't interested in the reindeer, yesterday so much.. kangaroo should be here soon so will try that and I might order some other foods too.
> 
> Could this also be linked to him finishing course of ab's..he seems to do so much better when he is on them..but long term surely he can't stay on them for good??


I've only just seen this  What a bummer.So sorry to read that Riley has had a bit of a set back  interesting that he does better whilst on AB's and then starts having problems when they stop.


----------



## chillminx

Nicola -- I think that VC food is quite rich -- I notice my cat had rather loose stools after a day on the duck recipe. He seemed OK on the kangaroo though. 

Years ago I had another cat, who had severe IBD, and she was the same as your Riley -- always better when she was on a course of antibiotics, and for a few weeks after. Then the problems would build up again. 

I don't know if a vet would agree for a cat with IBD to be on (a low dose) of long term antibiotics. I would think they would prefer to try and improve the bowel flora with probiotics. But I think you've already tried Riley on those haven't you?


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola -- I think that VC food is quite rich -- I notice my cat had rather loose stools after a day on the duck recipe. He seemed OK on the kangaroo though.
> 
> Years ago I had another cat, who had severe IBD, and she was the same as your Riley -- always better when she was on a course of antibiotics, and for a few weeks after. Then the problems would build up again.
> 
> I don't know if a vet would agree for a cat with IBD to be on (a low dose) of long term antibiotics. I would think they would prefer to try and improve the bowel flora with probiotics. But I think you've already tried Riley on those haven't you?


Did try some prokolin, it was a nightmare to get him to take it and would not eat in food..at the time of trying he got sick, he was on a different antibiotic at the time so could have been either, vet did day unusual for cats to get sick on that type of ab. It ended up in him having the anti sickness jab and nearly a stay at the vets. I may search another type of probiotics as getting the paste into him, is stressful for both of us! Just seen you can get tablet form..might be worth a try. I don't think that it helped with his condition at the time tho..but as he got sick I might be clouded by this..

Not sure on the ab's for the long term, it may help but could it also be detrimental?? Unless he gets very bad we are not due back to the vets until the end of December for his jabs and health check..I was hoping that by then I would have made some improvement in the food issue..

I could try him on the horsemeat from vc, it's complete. I'm not confident in getting naked horsemeat and adding all the vitamins myself..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've only just seen this  What a bummer.So sorry to read that Riley has had a bit of a set back  interesting that he does better whilst on AB's and then starts having problems when they stop.


I wondered if the anti-inflammatory part of the metronidazole keeps the inflammation down in his tummy..?? I know steroids are an option, but (apologies if this sounds but thick) how do the steroids work? Is there not just an anti-inflammatory pill he could have??


----------



## buffie

I dont know either re how steroids work other than they are used in part as an anti inflammatory.,not sure there is an alternative.


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## nicolaa123

List of veterinary drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Research time for me..


----------



## chillminx

Nicola, you could be right it is the anti-inflammatory aspect of the metronidazole that is keeping down Riley's inflammation.

There is no alternative to steroids for reducing inflammation, other than Metacam, which is a *non-steroid* anti-inflammatory drug (not usually prescribed for IBD because of the risk of nasty side effects in the gut etc).

As you know there are risks from using steroids long term. My previous cat with severe IBD had been on courses of steroids on/off for years before I adopted her, and she had developed diabetes as a result. So because of the diabetes she was not allowed steroids any more and I had to try and control the IBD with diet and antibiotics every couple of months when things were bad again.

What happens if you give Riley a 100% home-made diet for say a month, so you know exactly what is going into it? Have you tried it?


----------



## nicolaa123

Interesting..especially part 6

Veterinary use
Metronidazole is not labeled for animal use but is widely used to treat infections of Giardia in dogs, cats, and other companion animals, although it does not reliably clear infection with this organism and is being supplanted by Fenbendazole for this purpose in dogs and cats.[6] Metronidazole is also used for the management of chronic inflammatory bowel disease in cats and dogs. [7] Another common usage is the treatment of systemic and/or GI clostridial infections in horses. Metronidazole or simply "Metro" is used in the aquarium hobby to treat ornamental fish and as a wide spectrum treatment for bacterial and protozoan infections in reptiles and amphibians. It is also used to treat human enteric (gi) and systemic infections. In general, the veterinary community may use metronidazole for any potentially susceptible anaerobic infection. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) prohibits the use of metronidazole in food animals.[8]


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola, you could be right it is the anti-inflammatory aspect of the metronidazole that is keeping down Riley's inflammation.
> 
> There is no alternative to steroids for reducing inflammation, other than Metacam, which is a *non-steroid* anti-inflammatory drug (not usually prescribed for IBD because of the risk of nasty side effects in the gut etc).
> 
> As you know there are risks from using steroids long term. My previous cat with severe IBD had been on courses of steroids on/off for years before I adopted her, and she had developed diabetes as a result. So because of the diabetes she was not allowed steroids any more and I had to try and control the IBD with diet and antibiotics every couple of months when things were bad again.
> 
> What happens if you give Riley a 100% home-made diet for say a month, so you know exactly what is going into it? Have you tried it?


I'm not sure I would be confident in doing this, making sure he has all he needs in it. Plus I do not have a freezer, although I could buy a small on the counter one. I thought about raw before and have tried to give him small bits if raw meat and he played with them for a few seconds but had no interest in eating it. I have tried beef, chicken, pork and turkey..and lamb as well..

Am trying to find info on long term usage of the metronidazole..might be back up if cant get the food right..


----------



## nicolaa123

Sulfasalazine for Dogs & Cats - IBD & Colitis Treatment - 1800PetMeds

Not heard about this one..


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry building up ibd info..

brochure_ibd


----------



## chillminx

I was meaning a home-cooked diet for a month, rather than a raw one. My cat with IBD does not do well on a raw diet -- I only give him a spoonful of raw a day. 

You would not need much freezer space to make a home cooked diet, just cook a different meat every couple of days,e.g. chicken, turkey, lamb, beef, pork. What I did with mine was give 80% cooked meat, 10% seared offal, (chicken hearts, lambs kidneys, and then chicken livers once a week) and 
added calcium and taurine. My cat is allergic to beef so I couldn't add bonemeal, but Riley might be OK on bonemeal. I also tried adding ground eggshells (instead of bonemeal) and he refused anything with eggshells in after the first time. That's why I added calcium (for pets) instead. 

I know some people appear to disapprove of feeding a home-cooked diet even short term, and frankly I don't understand why, 
When I was growing up all my family's cats were fed a home-cooked diet of meat and offal, with added bonemeal. + Also cooked fish-heads once a week. 

The only manufactured cat foods available in those days (the 1950's) were nasty-smelling cheap concoctions which no-one who cared about their cats would have dreamt of feeding! All my mother's cats were really healthy, muscular and bonny looking, and lived well into old age. People used to remark on how lovely their coats were. So the diet was obviously good for them. 

It's just that with a home cooked diet I found it much easier to identify what triggered my cat's colitis, as there are no additives/or veggies/or cereals as there are in tinned foods. 

After a month I was able to take my cat off the home cooked diet, although I continue to give him some home cooked food now and then.


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## chillminx

Sulfalazine is quite a heavy duty drug prescribed for IBD in humans, I had not heard before of it being given to cats and dogs. The are some possible unpleasant side effects even in short term usage,

What are the possible side-effects? | Arthritis Research UK


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Sulfalazine is quite a heavy duty drug prescribed for IBD in humans, I had not heard before of it being given to cats and dogs. The are some possible unpleasant side effects even in short term usage,
> 
> What are the possible side-effects? | Arthritis Research UK


I wonder if only in USA that its used for animals?? It came up when I was searching drugs..

I have also tried him on cooked meat and again he has turned his nose up at it..i can keep trying cooked meat, but I could leave any uncooked or cooked meat out and he would not touch it..open a tin of tuna though and he climbs up my legs to get it!!


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## nicolaa123

My neighbour dropped off a parcel, from ali82 with a tin of vc ostrich, tried him on a little bit and was eaten very well,more a smoother pate. Now there is much face washing going on, take this as a good sign with the ostrich..

Maybe an option for him to try..if he eats enough I can see what the output is..


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## nicolaa123

More treatment related stuff..

Update on managing inflammatory bowel disease and intestinal lymphoma in cats (Proceedings) - Veterinary Healthcare


----------



## nicolaa123

Think the ostrich may have been little bit rich, kangaroo is at my friends house so will pick that up tommorrow.


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## nicolaa123

When got home tonight there was deposit in the tray most ok, some squidgy, nothing up I tail..looks promising, still on the slowly slowly..his bum looks a little bit sore, will give it a week and if no improvement will get him some more ab's..it's not bothering him, which is a plus!

Past 2 days he has had SO much energy, he has been playing with his toys, chasing them round the house, chasing me, running to me, following me, jumping about.. Could this be the food? Would it take affect so quickly with even the small amount ie 200g over two days mixed with the venison??


----------



## Cazzer

sounds positive. Got no idea whether his energy is due to food but he sounds like a happy cat  

thanks for the kangaroo and reindeer arrived today. Not tried yet will probably save to weekend


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> sounds positive. Got no idea whether his energy is due to food but he sounds like a happy cat
> 
> thanks for the kangaroo and reindeer arrived today. Not tried yet will probably save to weekend


Oh brilliant, was a bit worried as squashed in the tins!! I've just let him out as he was complaining and he jumped on my neighbours car that is icy as freezing here, then started using the car as an ice skating rink  got him down, he jumped up again, but as his pads were warm he was then kind of sticking to the cold car..then ran and slid down the back window, I swear he was doing it for fun! Now he is grounded :sosp:


----------



## AngelaWB

Am so excited and I know no one will really understand, unless they have a cat with similar problems. Doris, my Pixie Bob, as I've said on an earlier post, has had awful problems for a considerable time now. Today, Doris has done a solid poo, the first one for nearly a year. There was a bit of mucousy stuff and a little blood with it, but I'm hoping that will be a temporary thing.

I started her on a supplement last week, starting very very slowly with it as she's such a fussy eater, she's eating well, her weights increasing, but the fact she's solid, I can't believe it.

Fingers crossed we've turned a corner


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Am so excited and I know no one will really understand, unless they have a cat with similar problems. Doris, my Pixie Bob, as I've said on an earlier post, has had awful problems for a considerable time now. Today, Doris has done a solid poo, the first one for nearly a year. There was a bit of mucousy stuff and a little blood with it, but I'm hoping that will be a temporary thing.
> 
> I started her on a supplement last week, starting very very slowly with it as she's such a fussy eater, she's eating well, her weights increasing, but the fact she's solid, I can't believe it.
> 
> Fingers crossed we've turned a corner


I do so understand!! What supplement are you giving?? Hope Doris continues to do better


----------



## AngelaWB

I bought some 'Digestor', it's a psyllium husk plus other natural ingredients (tried just the psyllium husk months ago, she didn't eat much of it and it didn't work on it's own). Am so excited. 

My sister had got some for her dog as she's had a problem for a few weeks, it worked well on her, it can be given to cats too, so I tried a little on Doris, she ate it, so I increased the amount, now after just a few days, SOLID POO!!!! 

I'm just hoping it's not a fluke and she goes back to 'abnormal' again - but time will tell now I suppose.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I bought some 'Digestor', it's a psyllium husk plus other natural ingredients (tried just the psyllium husk months ago, she didn't eat much of it and it didn't work on it's own). Am so excited.
> 
> My sister had got some for her dog as she's had a problem for a few weeks, it worked well on her, it can be given to cats too, so I tried a little on Doris, she ate it, so I increased the amount, now after just a few days, SOLID POO!!!!
> 
> I'm just hoping it's not a fluke and she goes back to 'abnormal' again - but time will tell now I suppose.


That can be a problem with this, I've got my hopes up a number of times to then have them dashed!! I am hoping that the kangaroo Riley is on at the moment will be his turning point!! I now think if we can go two weeks with no problems, we may have got round the corner..

Keep us posted please..


----------



## AngelaWB

nicolaa123 said:


> That can be a problem with this, I've got my hopes up a number of times to then have them dashed!! I am hoping that the kangaroo Riley is on at the moment will be his turning point!! I now think if we can go two weeks with no problems, we may have got round the corner..
> 
> Keep us posted please..


I will keep my fingers crossed for Riley too.

yes I will let you know how she gets on, but this today, is a significant improvement


----------



## buffie

Thanks nicola,Meeko has given the skippy a try but not sure if he will eat it all,but at least he tried it so maybe he will.
I just wish he would realise it is for his benefit


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks nicola,Meeko has given the skippy a try but not sure if he will eat it all,but at least he tried it so maybe he will.
> I just wish he would realise it is for his benefit


Oh that bowl is cool!! Made me laugh first one..poor Meeko having no thumbs an that


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## nicolaa123

I've just rung vets, as not happy with his bum, he has not had a bad poo, but his bum looks so sore and has had blood, little bit last night and some more tonight. She is making me up another course of ab's, did not opt for the steroids just yet..

I'm loathe to stop the kangaroo as I can tell even in last few days he appears better, more energy, happier at the food bowl. Plus where he had a very noticeable waist before, he has started to fill out a bit there. He loves the food,empty bowl every time..

Argh!!


----------



## AngelaWB

Day 2 and Doris is still solid


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I've just rung vets, as not happy with his bum, he has not had a bad poo, but his bum looks so sore and has had blood, little bit last night and some more tonight. She is making me up another course of ab's, did not opt for the steroids just yet..
> 
> I'm loathe to stop the kangaroo as I can tell even in last few days he appears better, more energy, happier at the food bowl. Plus where he had a very noticeable waist before, he has started to fill out a bit there. He loves the food,empty bowl every time..
> 
> Argh!!


Oh thats a shame,Maybe it is just a coincidence and not the result of "skippy".


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh thats a shame,Maybe it is just a coincidence and not the result of "skippy".


I'm thinking that it could be the polyp playing up?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm thinking that it could be the polyp playing up?


I suppose it is difficult to know when there is more than one problem going on.Fingers and paws crossed the AB's sort it for poor Riley


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I suppose it is difficult to know when there is more than one problem going on.Fingers and paws crossed the AB's sort it for poor Riley


I would not say poor Riley...he is so active tonight it's un real, nothing is safe..He is fine with it all  just checked his bum and looks better, bit less sore..only thing I've also changed is been giving him logic for his teeth..tho can't think that would cause problems??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I would not say poor Riley...he is so active tonight it's un real, nothing is safe..He is fine with it all  just checked his bum and looks better, bit less sore..only thing I've also changed is been giving him logic for his teeth..tho can't think that would cause problems??


I know what you mean.When Meeko is sick I always feel so sorry that we still havnt found out why/what is causing it ,where as he couldnt care less.He doesnt like the "being sick" bit but it doesnt phase him one bit once its over,he is back eating or doing what ever it he was doing before he had to be sick.Its us that seem to get upset


----------



## Alessa

Does anyone know what the difference is in terms of effectiveness between the Veterinary diets such as Royal Canin Sensitivity Control and Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> Does anyone know what the difference is in terms of effectiveness between the Veterinary diets such as Royal Canin Sensitivity Control and Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal?


Sorry Riley has not had either..what are the symptoms your cat is having?

On another note found a small article on stress related ibd.. Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Riley came in with a small scratch on his ear, bit of blood, all bathed and cleaned up. Noticed that his back end had also bled, but there had been no diarrhoea so nothing to suggest that he had had a problem when going to toilet. So maybe I need to look at stress as a factor also??


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry Riley has not had either..what are the symptoms your cat is having?
> 
> On another note found a small article on stress related ibd.. Inflammatory Bowel Disease
> 
> Riley came in with a small scratch on his ear, bit of blood, all bathed and cleaned up. Noticed that his back end had also bled, but there had been no diarrhoea so nothing to suggest that he had had a problem when going to toilet. So maybe I need to look at stress as a factor also??


PM'ed you on the details! I am not sure if he is stressed... he seems happy and content enough. He kneads and purrs and wants to sleep beside me or on my lap. He is quite a confident kitten and is anything but skittish or jumpy. Never seen or heard him hiss, even when faced with the hair drier and a bath, and loves being handled. I notice though that the diarrhea is particularly bad in the evenings after I come back from being out for a prolonged period of time (this only happens 1-3 times a week).

Does IBD also manifest itself in the form of scooting after a runny visit to the litter box?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> PM'ed you on the details! I am not sure if he is stressed... he seems happy and content enough. He kneads and purrs and wants to sleep beside me or on my lap. He is quite a confident kitten and is anything but skittish or jumpy. Never seen or heard him hiss, even when faced with the hair drier and a bath, and loves being handled. I notice though that the diarrhea is particularly bad in the evenings after I come back from being out for a prolonged period of time (this only happens 1-3 times a week).
> 
> Does IBD also manifest itself in the form of scooting after a runny visit to the litter box?


Hi, I replied, but also think if you cut and post on here, others maybe able to help also..

With the scooting thing, Riley if has had a runny poo, will scoot, think its a way for him to clean his bum and stop the itch or the irritation that it causes. As for it being a symptom of ibd, I think it's due to the runny poo causing irritation, could also be sign of worms. Only way to know if ibd is to have tests done..


----------



## nicolaa123

Forgot to add, as there has been lot of diarrhoea make sure that in take of water is enough, especially if feeding dry as well, as he could become dehydrated..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well a week on the kangaroo and two days exclusively on kangaroo and I've noticed the following. Increased appetite and no food waste at all, we are up to 200g of food per day..unreal! He has more energy, playing with toys in the morning and the evening, chasing through his cat tunnel like a mad cat!! He sleeps all night, even when I find him on windowsill in the morning, he has not come in to wake me up at all, no 3 o'clock hellos or anything. He had huge wee's and I've not been adding extra water to the food, I nearly took photo earlier as could not believe the size of the clump 

I'm not going to talk about poo wise as don't want to jinx it..

His coat shines, bright eyes..I'm sure he has put weight on also..now it could be due to the course of metronidazole, so not ruling that out, but dare I feel just a smidge hopeful??


----------



## Cazzer

that sounds really good so yes I think you can be hopeful!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> that sounds really good so yes I think you can be hopeful!


Ok for now I'm going to still think the worse tho just in case


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well a week on the kangaroo and two days exclusively on kangaroo and I've noticed the following. Increased appetite and no food waste at all, we are up to 200g of food per day..unreal! He has more energy, playing with toys in the morning and the evening, chasing through his cat tunnel like a mad cat!! He sleeps all night, even when I find him on windowsill in the morning, he has not come in to wake me up at all, no 3 o'clock hellos or anything. He had huge wee's and I've not been adding extra water to the food, I nearly took photo earlier as could not believe the size of the clump
> 
> I'm not going to talk about poo wise as don't want to jinx it..
> 
> His coat shines, bright eyes..I'm sure he has put weight on also..now it could be due to the course of metronidazole, so not ruling that out, but dare I feel just a smidge hopeful??


 *a very quiet round of applause for Riley and the skippy diet*


----------



## nicolaa123

Day 5 just on the kangaroo and I'm fricking confused..

All 5 days no problem, no runs, no mess, no cleaning of tail, little but blood but nothing compared to what it had been.

Then tonight..... He came in could see he had had a problem as could see his tail was mucky, out came the tissues, ran got bowl of warm water, sat down with him..took worse of it with a dry tissue from his tail, then cleaned with warm water then dried him.. Now what has thrown me is that it did not smell of poo, but smelled of dirt!!

I checked the dry tissues and again smelt of dirt! Plus I thought at time it was bit easy to clean as poo normally sticks, but this just came off..

Does anyone have any ideas on this?


----------



## Tao2

Either he's sat in some dirt! or have you noticed how the poo smells since he has been on solely kangaroo? Has the odour significantly reduced? Can't see that his poo could just smell like dirt after a few days on kangaroo, but if it does, I'm gonna get me some of that Skippy!!! Appreciate if he always goes outdoors you may not have a clue...

Mittens has put on 100g!!! Yay!! Obviously new diet is doing her good (and she seems to have really bounced back well from the Butchers Choice debacle so am not feeling so guilty any more).


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Either he's sat in some dirt! or have you noticed how the poo smells since he has been on solely kangaroo? Has the odour significantly reduced? Can't see that his poo could just smell like dirt after a few days on kangaroo, but if it does, I'm gonna get me some of that Skippy!!! Appreciate if he always goes outdoors you may not have a clue...
> 
> Mittens has put on 100g!!! Yay!! Obviously new diet is doing her good (and she seems to have really bounced back well from the Butchers Choice debacle so am not feeling so guilty any more).


Well and apologies, I took the dry tissues out to have another look and there was bit of crumbly and it looked like dirt. I have tried keeping him in again this week, but he gets so stressed out by it and cries sometimes until he is horse! I will try to keep him in again until he has a poo then will compare smell....oh the joy!

However, the way in which it was up his tail he must really have sat and wiped his bum in the dirt..just seems odd thing to do!

Yay for mittens 100g is fantastic! Pleased she is doing better on new diet..


----------



## nicolaa123

Bit disappointing back to 4.42kg. But she said he looked very good..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Bit disappointing back to 4.42kg. But she said he looked very good..


Thats a shame,esp since you thought he was looking better on his skippy .So what is the plan now,is he going on steroid,more ab's or see how it goes.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thats a shame,esp since you thought he was looking better on his skippy .So what is the plan now,is he going on steroid,more ab's or see how it goes.


Well I have some ab's and some steroids, will give him none for 7 days as he has had his boosters then will see how he is. I can then give him the meds if he has diarrhoea still. Tonight no runny bum, tho I'm not all that sure he has been..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well I have some ab's and some steroids, will give him none for 7 days as he has had his boosters then will see how he is. I can then give him the meds if he has diarrhoea still. Tonight no runny bum, tho I'm not all that sure he has been..


Isnt life fun  Paws crossed that he doesnt need any and his runny bum settles down.Has his weight dropped a lot or just a little bit.You said he seemed more active ,is it possible that he has actually burned off a bit of weight just with exercise


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Isnt life fun  Paws crossed that he doesnt need any and his runny bum settles down.Has his weight dropped a lot or just a little bit.You said he seemed more active ,is it possible that he has actually burned off a bit of weight just with exercise


Last weigh when he had last b12 was 4.55kg, so I know not a massive drop, but was expecting a gain. Still not sure if has been tonight but his bum is clean and despite the demands I'm sticking to the food recs..he is bit quiet tonight, think the boosters are kicking in..

You are right tho, he helped me wrap Christmas gifts today and killed and maimed the empty roll!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Last weigh when he had last b12 was 4.55kg, so I know not a massive drop, but was expecting a gain. Still not sure if has been tonight but his bum is clean and despite the demands I'm sticking to the food recs..he is bit quiet tonight, think the boosters are kicking in..
> 
> You are right tho, he helped me wrap Christmas gifts today and killed and maimed the empty roll!


With such a small weight difference maybe he hadnt pooped or pee'd for a bit before he was weighed .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> With such a small weight difference maybe he hadnt pooped or pee'd for a bit before he was weighed .


You are right and I know this, but I was really hoping for her to say oh good he has put on!! Plus side she said he looked really good and also his bum and polyp looked like it had improved also.. I think I need to not have such high expectations..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You are right and I know this, but I was really hoping for her to say oh good he has put on!! Plus side she said he looked really good and also his bum and polyp looked like it had improved also.. *I think I need to not have such high expectations*..


I think you need a glass of something


----------



## Tao2

I'll second that. I think we all need a glass of something! Cheers!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think you need a glass of something


Yeah, you could be onto something there! Have some in fridge so glass might be just the answer!! I over think everything, just way I am! I need to just think he is doing ok right now and to stop there.

Big thank you to you tho, you have been such a help..


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I'll second that. I think we all need a glass of something! Cheers!


Did you see my message earlier I'm happy to send you some skippy just pm me your address!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah, you could be onto something there! Have some in fridge so glass might be just the answer!! I over think everything, just way I am! I need to just think he is doing ok right now and to stop there.
> 
> Big thank you to you tho, you have been such a help..


Hah I do to.When Meeko was really bad I was seeing things that werent there luckily my vet knows me well and will listen to my ramblings.If we didnt care we wouldnt worry  I'll always worry


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hah I do to.When Meeko was really bad I was seeing things that werent there luckily my vet knows me well and will listen to my ramblings.If we didnt care we wouldnt worry  I'll always worry


I must admit having the right vet makes all the difference, she knows Riley does not like being there and is happy to give meds without seeing him, other vets there have said no..plus she listens to all my questions and answers me, I can call her and she is happy to talk to me on the phone..I got her a box of chocolates more from me more than Riley, as I am so happy she is our vet..plus she went against the rules and told be about the vet concept against the hills/rc food..I trust her..makes so much difference.

Lets hope 2013 brings all our ibd cats some relief..will drink to that!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I must admit having the right vet makes all the difference, she knows Riley does not like being there and is happy to give meds without seeing him, other vets there have said no..plus she listens to all my questions and answers me, I can call her and she is happy to talk to me on the phone..I got her a box of chocolates more from me more than Riley, as I am so happy she is our vet..plus she went against the rules and told be about the vet concept against the hills/rc food..I trust her..makes so much difference.
> 
> Lets hope 2013 brings all our ibd cats some relief..*will drink to that*!!


Cheers


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm so happy  came home and could smell something that had just been deposited..was not awful stinky, but could smell it! Checked his bum, clean. Checked the tray and four bits of lovely firm poo were waiting for me!!

You have no idea how happy I am!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm so happy  came home and could smell something that had just been deposited..was not awful stinky, but could smell it! Checked his bum, clean. Checked the tray and four bits of lovely firm poo were waiting for me!!
> 
> *You have no idea how happy I am!!:*D


Oh I think I do


----------



## Cazzer

yep think I do as well!


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm still smiling!!


----------



## Tao2

Happiness is...a firm stool


----------



## nicolaa123

day 2....still clean

Not getting hopes up, just pleased we are at day 2


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> day 2....still clean
> 
> Not getting hopes up, just pleased we are at day 2


I take it we are still smiling


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I take it we are still smiling


Yup!!

He is little bit snotty tonight, might be from his jabs, he is doing a little snore on my lap as we speak..


----------



## Tao2

That's brilliant Nicola!


----------



## nicolaa123

Did you get skippy today??


----------



## Tao2

No, will give you a full report on how it is received as soon as I do!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> No, will give you a full report on how it is received as soon as I do!


Cool!! I best get his masters supper ready, before I'm lynched!!


----------



## Tao2

Skippy arrived! Was so excited, I gave her some for tea, but :confused5: not tremendously well received. Instead of eating it, she tried to bury it (she does this a lot: I think it means,' hmmm not sure about this, I will bury it and come back to it later'). It's a rather bizarre thing that both my cats do, I think it's because they used to live as part of a colony where food was in short supply. Anyway it did get eaten because Fluffy Lord wolfed it down as soon as he was given the opportunity....but he doesn't need it! Typical!! 
Was it an instant hit with Riley?? Or did it take a while? I will try her with it again tomorrow, it may just be that she needs to get a taste for it.

Is Riley still well today? And OH wants to know if he is called Riley because he 'lives the life of.....'? Thanks again!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Skippy arrived! Was so excited, I gave her some for tea, but :confused5: not tremendously well received. Instead of eating it, she tried to bury it (she does this a lot: I think it means,' hmmm not sure about this, I will bury it and come back to it later'). It's a rather bizarre thing that both my cats do, I think it's because they used to live as part of a colony where food was in short supply. Anyway it did get eaten because Fluffy Lord wolfed it down as soon as he was given the opportunity....but he doesn't need it! Typical!!
> Was it an instant hit with Riley?? Or did it take a while? I will try her with it again tomorrow, it may just be that she needs to get a taste for it.
> 
> Is Riley still well today? And OH wants to know if he is called Riley because he 'lives the life of.....'? Thanks again!


The kangaroo was an instant hit!! How odd the burying behaviour.. but I did start off with mixing it in with his other food first of all, but he loves his skippy!!

Oh and his name..just came to me, not sure now why I chose Riley..but he does live the life of Riley that's for sure!!

I'm not at home at the moment, I am baby sitting so he was fine when I left home, but no tray deposit so will see when I get home!!


----------



## Tao2

Doh! Should have mixed it with some food she is used to. Don't know why I didn't think of it as I do that all the time to try to get the Royal Canin down her. Especially as flavour is probably quite different to her mainly poultry diet. Will do that tomorrow.
Fingers crossed for Rileys tray deposit! If it's OK today then surely must have been stopping the antibiotics?

I wonder if any other peoples cats 'bury' their food. I've never had cats do it before, it is quite odd. If she is sick she tries to bury that too. Usually with something nice and clean that I have just washed.....grrr!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Doh! Should have mixed it with some food she is used to. Don't know why I didn't think of it as I do that all the time to try to get the Royal Canin down her. Especially as flavour is probably quite different to her mainly poultry diet. Will do that tomorrow.
> Fingers crossed for Rileys tray deposit! If it's OK today then surely must have been stopping the antibiotics?


Knowing him..he will probably make me wait til tomorrow, but he may use his tray as I'm not home..he will wee when I'm home, but does not like to poo when I am home, maybe as I wait until he has done then whip the tray away 

Don't you think the kangaroo smells really nice tho..


----------



## Tao2

It smells meaty and also looks like it has plenty of meat in it. Some cat foods smell terrible!! Hey that was your 2000th post, congrats!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> It smells meaty and also looks like it has plenty of meat in it. Some cat foods smell terrible!! Hey that was your 2000th post, congrats!


Ha ha my 2000 th post and still talking about poo!! Now that's an achievement


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I wonder if any other peoples cats 'bury' their food. I've never had cats do it before, it is quite odd. If she is sick she tries to bury that too. Usually with something nice and clean that I have just washed.....grrr!


Sounds as though Mittens has the same thoughts about skippy that Meeko had.The first few mouthfuls went down well,but that was it 
As for burying it, Meeko does that with nearly every meal.
He will also cover it over with anything he can find lying around.He does it with food he doesnt like and also after he has finished eating if there is still some left in the bowl.He is a tidy chap


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Knowing him..he will probably make me wait til tomorrow, but he may use his tray as I'm not home..he will wee when I'm home, but does not like to poo when I am home, maybe as I wait until he has done then whip the tray away
> 
> Don't you think the kangaroo smells really nice tho..


Hope you find a pleasant surprise when you get home


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope you find a pleasant surprise when you get home


Won't be long until I see..


----------



## nicolaa123

Sadly no deposit, apart from another huge wee!!


----------



## nicolaa123

day 3 all ok


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, so glad he's got over the blip. 

Buffie, you've just totally discredited my theory about my cats 'burying' their food because of competition for food in the colony they lived in....I'm guessing Meeko has never sullied his paws in a cat colony, being a posh ragdoll.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> day 3 all ok


Oh its a scarey thing to do,counting the good days :w00t: Ive stopped now with Meeko ,it just makes it more upsetting when he breaks a good long run of :arf: free days  :lol::lol:


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, so glad he's got over the blip.
> 
> Buffie, you've just totally discredited my theory about my cats 'burying' their food because of competition for food in the colony they lived in....I'm guessing Meeko has never sullied his paws in a cat colony, being a posh ragdoll.


Meeko isnt the first one of my cats to bury their food and none of them came from multi cat situations as far as I know.Infact the only one who didnt do it was Bumble my semi feral maybe because he rarely left any to cover  
I think it is just a behaviour pattern some display,some dont


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh its a scarey thing to do,counting the good days :w00t: Ive stopped now with Meeko ,it just makes it more upsetting when he breaks a good long run of :arf: free days  :lol::lol:


You are right, I should stop, if he does have a bad day it will upset me, plus I'm trying to get to the point where I'm not so obsessed by it, checking his bum every time!


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley puts his paw into this food, not sure what that means


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley puts his paw into this food, not sure what that means


It means he has absolutely no table manners :lol::lol:


----------



## AngelaWB

Well after being so excited about Doris being 'solid' after a year of runny tummy, we've reverted straight back to square one, even though I've not changed the new diet. Booking back in at the vets hopefully this week but I'm not sure how much longer this can go on. 

My mums cat went like this, she eventually started to waste away, stopped cleaning herself, a cat who had previously had attitude was reduced to allowing me to bath her, we never knew what caused it - I don't think I can go through that again. Will see what the vet says.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Well after being so excited about Doris being 'solid' after a year of runny tummy, we've reverted straight back to square one, even though I've not changed the new diet. Booking back in at the vets hopefully this week but I'm not sure how much longer this can go on.
> 
> My mums cat went like this, she eventually started to waste away, stopped cleaning herself, a cat who had previously had attitude was reduced to allowing me to bath her, we never knew what caused it - I don't think I can go through that again. Will see what the vet says.


Sorry to hear this..let us know what the vet says, remind me what was you feeding her?


----------



## Tao2

AngelaWB said:


> Well after being so excited about Doris being 'solid' after a year of runny tummy, we've reverted straight back to square one, even though I've not changed the new diet. Booking back in at the vets hopefully this week but I'm not sure how much longer this can go on.
> 
> My mums cat went like this, she eventually started to waste away, stopped cleaning herself, a cat who had previously had attitude was reduced to allowing me to bath her, we never knew what caused it - I don't think I can go through that again. Will see what the vet says.


Angela, How old is Doris? Could it be an infection as she has not changed diet? Does she go outside, could she have eaten something you don't know about?
Is frustrating that problems have come back despite no change in diet!!


----------



## Tao2

I think Mittens and FL are playing mind games with me! There was disinterest in poor Skippy from Mittens but delight from the Fluffy one on Saturday. Sunday, Mittens was refusing all offerings, even of her favourite, freshly cooked chicken until late last night when she finally consented to eat something, guess what? Kangaroo. Fluffy one, in the meantime, has lost all interest. She happily demolished a whole bowl of it this moring as well. So, seems to be growing on her, but she has been sick too...

Actually, I think I have finally spotted the pattern. It's quite straightforward, don't know what's taken me so long: if she likes something, it makes her sick. If she is utterly bored by it: it won't make her sick but also, she won't eat it....


----------



## AngelaWB

I'm feeding Doris at the moment on Porta21 Chicken and Rice Sensitive, I'd tried with the Porta21 biscuits too, but that just ended up in a horrible mess. I know the meat is complimentary, but the idea was to get her solid for the first time in a year. It worked, being fed with Digestor, she improved dramatically. I decided I'd keep her on this for a couple of weeks before introducing a complete food, but the 'miracle' stopped working.

I've tried to feed her Reindeer etc, but she wasn't impressed and refused to eat.

It will be interesting to see what her weight is when I go to the vet as she'd lost an awful lot last time. She's eating the Porta21 really well, but it doesn't seem to be putting weight on her.

Tao2 - Doris is 7, she's an ex-breeding Pixie Bob who I took in, I've since found out she had problems previously too. She is a house cat and currently is living in the cat summerhouse, which is heated etc. She doesn't go out and about at all. It's very puzzling. This is like my mums cat, she was a house cat, hadn't eaten anything she shouldn't etc.


----------



## Tao2

AngelaWB said:


> I'm feeding Doris at the moment on Porta21 Chicken and Rice Sensitive, I'd tried with the Porta21 biscuits too, but that just ended up in a horrible mess. I know the meat is complimentary, but the idea was to get her solid for the first time in a year. It worked, being fed with Digestor, she improved dramatically. I decided I'd keep her on this for a couple of weeks before introducing a complete food, but the 'miracle' stopped working.
> 
> I've tried to feed her Reindeer etc, but she wasn't impressed and refused to eat.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what her weight is when I go to the vet as she'd lost an awful lot last time. She's eating the Porta21 really well, but it doesn't seem to be putting weight on her.
> 
> Tao2 - Doris is 7, she's an ex-breeding Pixie Bob who I took in, I've since found out she had problems previously too. She is a house cat and currently is living in the cat summerhouse, which is heated etc. She doesn't go out and about at all. It's very puzzling. This is like my mums cat, she was a house cat, hadn't eaten anything she shouldn't etc.


Obviously not picked up any food you didn't know about then. Has she had a diagnosis for her issues, either whilst with you or with her previous owners? Is she on any medication?

Pixie Bobs sound gorgeous, have never seen one though. Please, a piccie of Doris!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I think Mittens and FL are playing mind games with me! There was disinterest in poor Skippy from Mittens but delight from the Fluffy one on Saturday. Sunday, Mittens was refusing all offerings, even of her favourite, freshly cooked chicken until late last night when she finally consented to eat something, guess what? Kangaroo. Fluffy one, in the meantime, has lost all interest. She happily demolished a whole bowl of it this moring as well. So, seems to be growing on her, but she has been sick too...
> 
> Actually, I think I have finally spotted the pattern. It's quite straightforward, don't know what's taken me so long: if she likes something, it makes her sick. If she is utterly bored by it: it won't make her sick but also, she won't eat it....


I saw runs with Riley until he was completely on the kangaroo, whilst being mixed in, he still had some problems? Is really hard to say what to do for the best, as it is better if they are solely on a novel protein for at least two weeks, with nothing else at all, but if they do not eat it, then it can be a waste!! If you think she could it eat, it maybe worth ordering two weeks worth of food and only feeding this, nothing else to see how she reacts..


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I'm feeding Doris at the moment on Porta21 Chicken and Rice Sensitive, I'd tried with the Porta21 biscuits too, but that just ended up in a horrible mess. I know the meat is complimentary, but the idea was to get her solid for the first time in a year. It worked, being fed with Digestor, she improved dramatically. I decided I'd keep her on this for a couple of weeks before introducing a complete food, but the 'miracle' stopped working.
> 
> I've tried to feed her Reindeer etc, but she wasn't impressed and refused to eat.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what her weight is when I go to the vet as she'd lost an awful lot last time. She's eating the Porta21 really well, but it doesn't seem to be putting weight on her.
> 
> Tao2 - Doris is 7, she's an ex-breeding Pixie Bob who I took in, I've since found out she had problems previously too. She is a house cat and currently is living in the cat summerhouse, which is heated etc. She doesn't go out and about at all. It's very puzzling. This is like my mums cat, she was a house cat, hadn't eaten anything she shouldn't etc.


Have you tried horse? I think the vets need to do some further testing to get to the cause of this..


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> I've been having success with Terra Faelis and Feringa rabbit flavours, I am seriously looking into Vet Concept (rice-free) as it is arguably (according to the German forums) one of the supreme quality food being sold in the market, along with brands I've never heard of before (Tiger Cat, Pfotenliebe, Auenland Shire, Bestes Futter, Felidae). I notice their rabbit flavour has potatoes in it, any opinion on this one? Mathias did very well even with the added parsnips and other vegetables in both Feringa and Terra Faelis, and he seems to only have a bad reaction against chicken and beef, but is the rabbit flavour okay?


It was one my vet recommended and the customer service is the best I've had experience of!! Interesting about the German forums..does google translate them and do you have any links?

As for the potatoes, not sure think you would have to try it and see. On my next order from them I am going to order some CAT ALLERGY - Cat allergy Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG as a supplement to the kangaroo to curb his new found hunger as I find too much meat gives him the runs 

Also some. Katzenmenü PUTE 100g - Nassnahrung Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

Ask them about this. 
Soft Premium Diet Cat SANA 200g 6er-Pack - Nassnahrung Cat SANA Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

And probably this. Katzenmenü ENTE 100g - ENTE 100g NASSNAHRUNG KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> sorry Nicola saw this after I got back. Vet is happy with Karlo and wants me to reintroduce the Grau to see what happens!


Thats good news about Karlo,fingers and paws crossed it continues


----------



## nicolaa123

Some reading

Budesonide facts and related information

Next time one of us goes can we ask about it please?


----------



## nicolaa123

More drug stuff..

Michigan Veterinary Specialists - Inflammatory Bowel Disease


----------



## Alessa

Hi Cazzer! Hi Nicola!

Thanks so much! I think Pfotenliebe can still be purchased from pfotenliebe.de, but I am not sure of their selection. There isn't as much variety as Vet Concept. They do ship within EU, but you have to request for the shipping costs to the UK it seems.

Tiger Cat seems to be out of stock everywhere. I've checked on Auenland shire and they don't seem to have as good a variety either, so it seems Vet Concept (no rice flavours) is my only option.

It's an old thread but... Qualität von NaFu's - Katzen Forum

Grau and Macs are both below the ones I mentioned above. I google-translate most things, but I sometimes ask my German husband for help. I was also looking into getting Catz Finefood as I think they sell it at Fresnapf (I am going to Hamburg this weekend). Ropocat is another option but they did not rate it very highly. I believe they judge base on meat content and quality + supplements.


----------



## Tao2

Right, I may have come up with this argument because I cannot accept that BOTH my cats may have IBD:

The article states that cats evolved to remove hair with faeces and that vomiting up hairballs is indicative of a problem, perhaps caused by abnormal digestive transit speed allowing for a build up of hair in the stomach. Fine, but were cats longhaired before humans started breeding them since domestication? I do not believe they were. So longhaired cats are an artificial construct and not the product of evolution, hence stupid quantites of fur in stomachs causing hairballs. Therefore Fluff Beasts' hairballs are the fault of human intervention and not a result of IBD.

You can destroy my argument with a few well chosen words if you feel like it, but I won't believe you because I am in denial. And neither will the hairball infested Fluff Monster.


----------



## jenny armour

thank you nicola i got my food for charley this moring, she has had a little of it, not sure if she likes it or not but maybe torre and troy will be will also suffer with their b ellies. will try the vet concept next, where did you get that from?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Right, I may have come up with this argument because I cannot accept that BOTH my cats may have IBD:
> 
> The article states that cats evolved to remove hair with faeces and that vomiting up hairballs is indicative of a problem, perhaps caused by abnormal digestive transit speed allowing for a build up of hair in the stomach. Fine, but were cats longhaired before humans started breeding them since domestication? I do not believe they were. So longhaired cats are an artificial construct and not the product of evolution, hence stupid quantites of fur in stomachs causing hairballs. Therefore Fluff Beasts' hairballs are the fault of human intervention and not a result of IBD.
> 
> You can destroy my argument with a few well chosen words if you feel like it, but I won't believe you because I am in denial. And neither will the hairball infested Fluff Monster.


That is a really good point to raise and be a good idea to ask in cat chat to see what people think..I have no idea if before man got involved there was only short hair cats, or have long hair ones always been around.. As for denial I can't blame you I think I would be the same :001_smile:


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> thank you nicola i got my food for charley this moring, she has had a little of it, not sure if she likes it or not but maybe torre and troy will be will also suffer with their b ellies. will try the vet concept next, where did you get that from?


Vet - concept from here

Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG if they like the reindeer I can send more


----------



## Alessa

Regarding Vet Concept, does anyone know how much of the meat content is muscle meat and how much are offal?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> Regarding Vet Concept, does anyone know how much of the meat content is muscle meat and how much are offal?


http://www.vet-concept.com/Futteran...p1}{md5/597d6951c1684a27f4476000603e8e92/md5}
Not sure if this helps other wise you can email them, they are very helpful. http://www.vet-concept.com/Kontaktf...p1}{md5/77493fcf1937dfb67fc03edf483fb318/md5}


----------



## nicolaa123

Hmmm looks like the integra kangaroo is not an option..or is the ha biscuits..as that's the only different thing he had yesterday and this morning and he has had a reaction


----------



## Cazzer

Oh dear x x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh dear x x


It was not too bad..but he has been bit weird tonight, racing around the place..not wanting to eat his dinner particularly..I've popped out for a while so hope when I get back he is back to normal..

I will place another order next week so will try some more vet-concept, ideally I would like to keep him on the wet, if I can find another flavour he can tolerate it may help with the hunger as the kangaroo is low in fat..I will try the rabbit biscuits to see if he takes to them, but I only want them to be a small supplement rather than a meal..

I plan to take him to vet Wednesday to check his weight..he does sit on my scales and on them it shows he has put a little bit of weight on, but need to really use the vets scales. If the runny bum keeps on this week just being on the vet concept I may need to consider the steroid option..


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, Oh no, sorry the Integra doesn't agree with him. Maybe it's the Amaranth (whatever that is anyway). 
Difficult to know where to go as so many foods disagree with him. I think you said he didn't like venison? Have you tried horse?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmm looks like the integra kangaroo is not an option..or is the ha biscuits..as that's the only different thing he had yesterday and this morning and he has had a reaction


Thats not good  Maybe its the Amaranth(sp) in the Integra kangaroo,I think that is rice or similar.
Meeko didnt like the D/D wet as soon as I opened it I didnt hold out much hope to be honest,he doesnt like pate food  He has picked at the biscuits but isnt overly keen.
I think I will give up for now,I have a cupboard full of different foods that he just wont look at


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, Oh no, sorry the Integra doesn't agree with him. Maybe it's the Amaranth (whatever that is anyway).
> Difficult to know where to go as so many foods disagree with him. I think you said he didn't like venison? Have you tried horse?


Not sure what it is Amaranth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm looking at horse for next order..sorry taken so long to reply I tried ages ago but I could not get reply to work


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, Oh no, sorry the Integra doesn't agree with him. Maybe it's the Amaranth (whatever that is anyway).
> Difficult to know where to go as so many foods disagree with him. I think you said he didn't like venison? Have you tried horse?





buffie said:


> Thats not good  Maybe its the Amaranth(sp) in the Integra kangaroo,I think that is rice or similar.
> Meeko didnt like the D/D wet as soon as I opened it I didnt hold out much hope to be honest,he doesnt like pate food  He has picked at the biscuits but isnt overly keen.
> I think I will give up for now,I have a cupboard full of different foods that he just wont look at


He seemed better when I got in..the polyp has been playing him up..it's aggravating him which is why he has been bit looney..earlier he wanted a wee but refused to use the bathroom or bedroom tray, they are both clean and have been fully changed 2 days ago but he would not use them! I even took some out in case was too deep..but nothing was making him happy.

I think the cycle can also go..really starving and eating everything and anything to periods of anorexcity..which is a symptom of the ibd and now it seems like we are in anorexic mood and no food is good enough..I'm not sure how I am not going to go insane..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He seemed better when I got in..the polyp has been playing him up..it's aggravating him which is why he has been bit looney..earlier he wanted a wee but refused to use the bathroom or bedroom tray, they are both clean and have been fully changed 2 days ago but he would not use them! I even took some out in case was too deep..but nothing was making him happy.
> 
> I think the cycle can also go..really starving and eating everything and anything to periods of anorexcity..which is a symptom of the ibd and now it seems like we are in anorexic mood and no food is good enough..I'm not sure how I am not going to go insane..


Been there, done that,worn bl**dy holes in the T-shirt Meeko is in Hyper mode at the moment,he goes from sitting hunched to full out madness but hasnt been :tongue_smilie: since last Sunday so whether the famotidine is calming his gut I dont know.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Been there, done that,worn bl**dy holes in the T-shirt Meeko is in Hyper mode at the moment,he goes from sitting hunched to full out madness but hasnt been :tongue_smilie: since last Sunday so whether the famotidine is calming his gut I dont know.


He is now [email protected]&£d off as its flea treatment time..I gave him two week extra grace as its cold, winter and he hates it..now I'm faced with evil stares, plus the look of disgust at the food on offer..arrrrrggghhhhh


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm please Meeko has not been sick..long may it continue..one of us has got to make it past a month please..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He is now [email protected]&£d off as its flea treatment time..I gave him two week extra grace as its cold, winter and he hates it..now I'm faced with evil stares, plus the look of disgust at the food on offer..arrrrrggghhhhh


Oh the joys I'm sure there are some  Please tell me there are :001_unsure:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh the joys I'm sure there are some  Please tell me there are :001_unsure:


I must admit and feel I can here..earlier I thought I can't cope I want a normal cat with no bum issues, with no having to clean him up or think about food how much eaten or not eaten etc..

Then he sat on me and looked me in the eye and I know I was chosen to be the one to look after him and his issues, then he went bit mental and started to attack (play) with my arm and all was back to normal


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I must admit and feel I can here..earlier I thought I can't cope I want a normal cat with no bum issues, with no having to clean him up or think about food how much eaten or not eaten etc..
> 
> Then he sat on me and looked me in the eye and I know I was chosen to be the one to look after him and his issues, then he went bit mental and started to attack (play) with my arm and all was back to normal


I've felt that too,not that i didnt want meeko,just that I wished he was a well cat.Then he climbs up on my lap and stretches out,upside down and I feel unconditional love for the "pain in the ar*e" that is Meeko 
I think you hit the nail on the head,we are chosen for a reason


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've felt that too,not that i didnt want meeko,just that I wished he was a well cat.Then he climbs up on my lap and stretches out,upside down and I feel unconditional love for the "pain in the ar*e" that is Meeko
> I think you hit the nail on the head,we are chosen for a reason


Yeah I love my stinky mucky bum Riley


----------



## Tao2

It is so interesting talking to other people with IBD cats, things pop up that Mittens does that I never realised weren't unique to her. Like the cycle of hunger then extreme pickiness that Nicola mentioned. Mittens often whinges for food like an ordinary cat, which fills me with delight, then promptly turns her nose up at/or just picks a tiny amount of whatever delicacies I offer. 

When she is feeling grim, she sits in a distinctive hunched position (Buffie mentioned Meeko sitting hunched), she looks so uncomfortable, as if it's too painful to stretch out. 
She is currently lying next to me, on her back, stretched out, legs in the air, looking utterly blissed out, she must be feeling pretty good this morning!!:thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well how are we all doing today..Riley is in I'm not eating mood, he has also had runny bum, tho not as bad this time so think we should be solid next time. His bum looks sore tho and not all nice and flat 


He is ok in himself, but am going to only give him a small dinner and small supper tonight (if he eats it )


Vets this week!!


----------



## buffie

Meeko was "v.hungry" this morning,but I put that down to having to wait at least 30 minutes ,(longer if I can get away with it)after his famotidine before he can have breakfast.He did eat it all though  and has had some more since.He is currently stretched out on his day bed in front of the window watching the snow flakes ...........


Hope Riley gets a good report at the vets


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> It is so interesting talking to other people with IBD cats, things pop up that Mittens does that I never realised weren't unique to her. Like the cycle of hunger then extreme pickiness that Nicola mentioned. Mittens often whinges for food like an ordinary cat, which fills me with delight, then promptly turns her nose up at/or just picks a tiny amount of whatever delicacies I offer.
> *
> When she is feeling grim, she sits in a distinctive hunched position (Buffie mentioned Meeko sitting hunched), she looks so uncomfortable, as if it's too painful to stretch out*.
> She is currently lying next to me, on her back, stretched out, legs in the air, looking utterly blissed out, she must be feeling pretty good this morning!!:thumbup:


Meeko sitting "hunched up" a bit like Sphynx ,can just as suddenly disappear as he flies through the air chasing some imaginary prey so not sure just how much discomfort he is in,although vet did say it is a classic sign of gut ache


----------



## nicolaa123

We are waiting for snow 

If you have time look at this

Living with IBD

Read the case studies..we are not alone!! I'm still trying to find some uk studies but came across this..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> We are waiting for snow
> 
> If you have time look at this
> 
> Living with IBD
> 
> Read the case studies..we are not alone!! I'm still trying to find some uk studies but came across this..


Have only looked at some of that link but  scary reading.
Sometimes I think "google" can be a bad thing


----------



## chillminx

Nicola -- just wanted to mention my cat (Pixie) with dermatitis issues seems to have started reacting to the Vet Concept Kangaroo I have been feeding him this for about a month or more, along with RC Sensitivity Control wet.

He started getting very itchy again, and scabby from scratching himself. I suspected the RC more than the Vet Concept, so took him off the RC and kept him on the VC alone for a week. The itching got even worse, and then to my dismay he developed an ulcer on his lip, similar to what he had when I first adopted him

So I took him off the VC Kangaroo a few days ago, and his lip is healing. Also he is scratching less. 

It is such a pity, as I had high hopes of the VC food, with it being single protein (and novel), as well as good quality. When Pixie is more stable I may be able to give him a meal of VC every few days, but as I have the 400 gram tins atm, this is not very practical, and none of my other cats seem to like the kangaroo flavour. 

I was hoping to widen Pixie's diet so he is not eating only RC Sensitivity. Even on RC alone he is still a bit itchy anyway. I believe the answer is to have him on a diet of several different foods which I can rotate, but as I can't so far find even 2 foods he can tolerate, (or will eat) unfortunately that plan cannot get off the ground!


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Nicola -- just wanted to mention my cat (Pixie) with dermatitis issues seems to have started reacting to the Vet Concept Kangaroo I have been feeding him this for about a month or more, along with RC Sensitivity Control wet.
> 
> He started getting very itchy again, and scabby from scratching himself. I suspected the RC more than the Vet Concept, so took him off the RC and kept him on the VC alone for a week. The itching got even worse, and then to my dismay he developed an ulcer on his lip, similar to what he had when I first adopted him
> 
> So I took him off the VC Kangaroo a few days ago, and his lip is healing. Also he is scratching less.
> 
> It is such a pity, as I had high hopes of the VC food, with it being single protein (and novel), as well as good quality. When Pixie is more stable I may be able to give him a meal of VC every few days, but as I have the 400 gram tins atm, this is not very practical, and none of my other cats seem to like the kangaroo flavour.
> 
> I was hoping to widen Pixie's diet so he is not eating only RC Sensitivity. Even on RC alone he is still a bit itchy anyway. I believe the answer is to have him on a diet of several different foods which I can rotate, but as I can't so far find even 2 foods he can tolerate, (or will eat) unfortunately that plan cannot get off the ground!


I'm sorry to hear about pixie..I was hopeful with Riley 22 days no diarrhoea..think it was triggered again when he stole some food due to a cycle of being ravenous. Then I tried to control ths by introducing the ha and zd and the integra..think it's all been too much too soon.

At the moment he will just have the kangaroo, on next order I will get some of the rabbit as have read rabbit is good for ibd..? Plus I will ask vet about signing the form so can try some horse..

The other side of the coin is he is reacting to the kangaroo and if he is I will know this week..if he is I don't know what to do as I/d gives him runs, he is not that keen on d/d..the royal canin sensitivity gives him runs..normal food gives him runs, the z/d wet is yuck and I don't want him on a dry only diet so the z/d biscuits which he did eat can not be his only meal!!

All we can do is keep looking or that mirical food :rolleyes5:


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> We are waiting for snow
> 
> If you have time look at this
> 
> Living with IBD
> 
> Read the case studies..we are not alone!! I'm still trying to find some uk studies but came across this..


Thanks for posting this link Nicola, I hadn't seen this site before and am currently wading through case studies. As Buffie says, scary stuff, but very informative.

Let us know how Riley gets on when he goes to the vet.

Mittens has been doing great since the Grau grainfree got shoved to the back of the cupboard. She seems fine with: Miamor chicken and rice, Kattovit Gastro, Integra protect sensitive plus RC sensitivity control, Chillminx have you tried any of those for Pixie? Now that I have identified some 'safe' foods I am becoming increasingly nervous of trying out unknown ones but still haven't got to the bottom of what exactly she reacts to and I think it is important to find that out. But I can't bear to give her something that might make her ill....it seems so cruel!


----------



## Cazzer

oh grief had Karlo, Keshet and Kgosi all with squits today. keshet and Kgosi I think due to some chicken Grau and Karlo due to stealing a mouthful or two of Bozita. Tried kittens with raw lamb over weekend and it must have been their favourite food ever and it seemed to suit them so going to try some more with them. Karlo won't eat it though. Have also emailed vet concept about an order but not heard anything yet

I'm going to have to find something else that suits them as I can't afford to keep all 3 on sensitivity control wet 

Hope everyone else is having a dire rear free day!


----------



## Cazzer

Both kittens have had dire rear again  Feel so sorry for the pair of them.


----------



## Cazzer

oh dear poor Kgosi has just been sick under the scratch post. He's taken himself off now and is in igloo. I'm meant to be working at home today and I keep on getting distracted by poorly cats. Going to give up working and just concentrate on the cats.

As I type this Keshet has been sick and now got into litter tray as dire rear


----------



## Cazzer

and Kgosi has been sick again


----------



## buffie

Cazzer I'm so sorry to read this,poor kitty's and poor you.One ill cat is bad enough but to have 3 with "dire rear" and 2 with :arf: hope it passes soon


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for posting this link Nicola, I hadn't seen this site before and am currently wading through case studies. As Buffie says, scary stuff, but very informative.
> 
> Let us know how Riley gets on when he goes to the vet.
> 
> Mittens has been doing great since the Grau grainfree got shoved to the back of the cupboard. She seems fine with: Miamor chicken and rice, Kattovit Gastro, Integra protect sensitive plus RC sensitivity control, Chillminx have you tried any of those for Pixie? Now that I have identified some 'safe' foods I am becoming increasingly nervous of trying out unknown ones but still haven't got to the bottom of what exactly she reacts to and I think it is important to find that out. But I can't bear to give her something that might make her ill....it seems so cruel!


I have to be honest and say that if I could find 3 or 4 foods that Meeko was okay with I would be sticking with them for a while,at least until I tried to find a trigger common to the ones which seemed to cause a problem.
Have you written out all ingredients in them and compared them to the ones that she seems okay with,it may not be a specific meat, it could be anything.


----------



## Tao2

Oh Cazzer, you poor thing!! And poor cats! Is it possible it's an infection that they've all picked up rather than a food reaction? Let us know how they are getting on.


----------



## Cazzer

Tao2 said:


> Oh Cazzer, you poor thing!! And poor cats! Is it possible it's an infection that they've all picked up rather than a food reaction? Let us know how they are getting on.


thanks very much, well its only 2 cats that are being sick having dire rear [Keshet & Kgosi] who both seem to have food intolerances. Just remembered I gave the 6 cats a tin of feringa chicken this morning which they've never had before........ They've only had the rabbit & lamb ones before.

Karlo has had just had a bit of dire rear which appears to have stopped. He's only had his RC today and his tum seems to have settled.

The other 4 are totally fine [famous last words]

that said I've made an appointment with vet for Keshet & Kgosi just to make sure.


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh no cazzer what a day you have had!! No news on poo situation, but appetite is very lacking right now..

I would like to find maybe 3 foods that he can eat..am avoiding chicken tho as he has had a reaction to that..I think with Riley the more limited the ingredients the better!!


----------



## jenny armour

Cazzer said:


> and Kgosi has been sick again


i know you have probably mentioned this already but what has the vet said about this?
by the way thank you for the rc sensitive control


----------



## nicolaa123

Jenny was the reindeer liked at all?


----------



## Cazzer

Thanks everyone. Just back from vet [thank goodness for vets who work late on Mondays] both had high temperatures so they've had some jabs. They've got flagyl and famotidine. Both got to be starved for a couple of hours then chicken later. Back to vets tomorrow night or morning if still being sick or listless. Just hope the other 5 don't get it! Oh and both seem to be over the worst of the vomiting anyway as its not happened for a while.


----------



## Cazzer

jenny armour said:


> i know you have probably mentioned this already but what has the vet said about this?
> by the way thank you for the rc sensitive control


hope cat likes the RC and that it suits her!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Thanks everyone. Just back from vet [thank goodness for vets who work late on Mondays] both had high temperatures so they've had some jabs. They've got flagyl and famotidine. Both got to be starved for a couple of hours then chicken later. Back to vets tomorrow night or morning if still being sick or listless. Just hope the other 5 don't get it! Oh and both seem to be over the worst of the vomiting anyway as its not happened for a while.


Are they thinking its a bug?? My vets open til 8 pm 6 days a week ad half day Sunday..2 practises in the town as well! I am lucky..


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> Jenny was the reindeer liked at all?


i am trying it tomorrow. charley wasnt keen in the rc but will let you know about the reindeer. thank you


----------



## Cazzer

yes Nicola they are thinking its a bug!

My vets are open late Mon and Thurs until 8pm, most other nights its 6.30 for the last appointment. But they do have a vet hospital as well which is open 24 hours. Thats a couple of miles away though as opposed to a couple of minutes!


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> Are they thinking its a bug?? My vets open til 8 pm 6 days a week ad half day Sunday..2 practises in the town as well! I am lucky..


thats good having a vet that opens late.
the vet that saw charley last monday, told me to phone at the end of last week to let him know how she is doing. well i phoned friday and the receptionist said she would get him to phone me later, he didnt.
so i phoned this morning and i still havent heard anything


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> yes Nicola they are thinking its a bug!
> 
> My vets are open late Mon and Thurs until 8pm, most other nights its 6.30 for the last appointment. But they do have a vet hospital as well which is open 24 hours. Thats a couple of miles away though as opposed to a couple of minutes!


Hope it does not go through them all 

As for bum watch here, he went out in the snow was out for about 40 mins..he likes the snow..is back in and has a clean bum..so maybe we are back to solid..where is the fingers crossed smiley??


----------



## chillminx

Tao2 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Miamor chicken and rice, Kattovit Gastro, Integra protect sensitive plus RC sensitivity control, Chillminx have you tried any of those for Pixie?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, thanks He is already on RC Sensitivity Control as one of his foods.
> 
> He will not eat Kattovit Gastro, or Integra Protect Sensitive at all.
> 
> He will eat Miamor Chicken and Rice, but as it is more or less the same thing as RC Sensitivity Control, but a little bit more expensive I do not often buy it.
Click to expand...


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok I come home to a solid deposit in the tray..whoo hoo!!

So it's got me thinking (bare with me) ibd must be a cycle thing and think we all need to note our cats cycle then we could be some way to intervene and maybe avoid a flare up..

So Riley..on d/d runny bum, blood, just on kangaroo but still with metronidazole runny bum, stop metronidazole few days after solid poo, 20 days ish later ravenous hunger to point of stealing food, food consumption over 300g, runny bum and blood. Try biscuits z/d fared better than the ha, integra runny bum (think limited ingredients needed) stop all food apart from kangaroo...hunger has now reduced, bowl of food not devoured in one sitting but going back to and being grazed at, food consumption about 200g, poo back to normal, no blood..

There must be something there in that cycle that if I can recognise and avoid it would mean a stop to the flare ups.

We are at vets tomorrow at 4.30. I have booked him in to see our vet as she is on holiday after that for a number of weeks  I will ask her about the drug I found on Internet,..plus if she will sign the horse form..feel a bit of a fraud for taking him if his bum is back to normal, but oh we'll..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok I come home to a solid deposit in the tray..whoo hoo!!
> 
> So it's got me thinking (bare with me) ibd must be a cycle thing and think we all need to note our cats cycle then we could be some way to intervene and maybe avoid a flare up..
> 
> So Riley..on d/d runny bum, blood, just on kangaroo but still with metronidazole runny bum, stop metronidazole few days after solid poo, 20 days ish later ravenous hunger to point of stealing food, food consumption over 300g, runny bum and blood. Try biscuits z/d fared better than the ha, integra runny bum (think limited ingredients needed) stop all food apart from kangaroo...hunger has now reduced, bowl of food not devoured in one sitting but going back to and being grazed at, food consumption about 200g, poo back to normal, no blood..
> 
> There must be something there in that cycle that if I can recognise and avoid it would mean a stop to the flare ups.
> 
> We are at vets tomorrow at 4.30. I have booked him in to see our vet as she is on holiday after that for a number of weeks  I will ask her about the drug I found on Internet,..plus if she will sign the horse form..feel a bit of a fraud for taking him if his bum is back to normal, but oh we'll..


Interesting theory on IBD "working on a cycle".I used to keep a diary for Meeko (infact it is on the computer) food eaten/lively or quiet/was he sick/did he seem uncomfortable,no real pattern appeared.The only time I get any "pattern" is when he is on Famotidine he is bright/lively eating well and not sick although does have the occas not so good day 
Good luck at the vet,hope he has put on some weight.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Interesting theory on IBD "working on a cycle".I used to keep a diary for Meeko (infact it is on the computer) food eaten/lively or quiet/was he sick/did he seem uncomfortable,no real pattern appeared.The only time I get any "pattern" is when he is on Famotidine he is bright/lively eating well and not sick although does have the occas not so good day
> Good luck at the vet,hope he has put on some weight.


I hope he has at least maintained his weight, he looks good, secretly I would like a gain..we had cuddle earlier and he felt bit more chunky 

As to the pattern a diary is a really good idea..I think more could be learned from chron's Management of Crohn's disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is interesting is most of the drugs used are same!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I hope he has at least maintained his weight, he looks good, secretly I would like a gain..we had cuddle earlier and he felt bit more chunky
> 
> As to the pattern a diary is a really good idea..I think more could be learned from chron's Management of Crohn's disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What is interesting is most of the drugs used are same!!


Not sure Meeko's symptoms are those of Crohns ,he doesnt have/hasnt had "dire rear"/blood in stools ect his is upper intestinal tract.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not sure Meeko's symptoms are those of Crohns ,he doesnt have/hasnt had "dire rear"/blood in stools ect his is upper intestinal tract.


Crohns can be vomiting as well as the other end..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Crohns can be vomiting as well as the other end..


It can, but it would appear to be far more likely to involve the lower intestines .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> It can, but it would appear to be far more likely to involve the lower intestines .


Yes it does seem more to involve the back end..


----------



## Tao2

Hairballs: Normal in a healthy cat or not? Discussed here a few days ago, I then set a poll up on the chat page to test how many cats get them. Results are:

Over 61% of all respondents reported that their cat had produced hairballs at some point.
In longhairs: 91% reported hairballs
In shorthairs: 48% reported hairballs

Am not surprised that so many longhairs produce hairballs, but was quite surprised that so many shorthaired cats produced them.

What do you think?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hairballs: Normal in a healthy cat or not? Discussed here a few days ago, I then set a poll up on the chat page to test how many cats get them. Results are:
> 
> Over 61% of all respondents reported that their cat had produced hairballs at some point.
> In longhairs: 91% reported hairballs
> In shorthairs: 48% reported hairballs
> 
> Am not surprised that so many longhairs produce hairballs, but was quite surprised that so many shorthaired cats produced them.
> 
> What do you think?


Did you find out whether long hair cats are man made as such? Shorthair hairballs % is not what I would have expected..would also be interesting for the shorthair hairballs group to say if their cat is fed a dry or wet diet, with or with out grains..


----------



## jenny armour

i personally wouldnt have thought all longhaired cats were manmade. as far as i know nfcs which are native to norway would have always been longhaired and double coated because of the weather in norway.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *Did you find out whether long hair cats are man made as such? * Shorthair hairballs % is not what I would have expected..would also be interesting for the shorthair hairballs group to say if their cat is fed a dry or wet diet, with or with out grains..


I knew I'd read something ,somewhere .............
Longhair Cats


----------



## nicolaa123

Back from the vets, he has lost a little bit of weight now at 4.37 kg so am a bit miffed he has lost a little and I know it's not much but it's still going in the wrong direction..:incazzato:

She signed the form so I can go ahead and order the horse, so will out an order in tonight.. thinking to just stick with wet now rather than order some dry, but still in two minds..:ciappa:

I spoke to her about the drug I had found she looked it up and seems is a human medicine that there is information about for dogs but not cats so she said better to start with the steroids first if I need to..:sosp::sosp:

So course of action is to keep on with the food and hopefully find 2or 3 foods he can eat..if the runny bum starts on the kangaroo I can give him the steroids, it is a very low dose 1/2 pill per day, or I can give 1/2 pill twice a day, then taper it off if he begins to improve..

Please excuse the over use of smileys I have a three year old on my lap "helping" me type this..

  :rolleyes5: :incazzato: :001_wub:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Back from the vets, he has lost a little bit of weight now at 4.37 kg so am a bit miffed he has lost a little and I know it's not much but it's still going in the wrong direction..:incazzato:
> 
> She signed the form so I can go ahead and order the horse, so will out an order in tonight.. thinking to just stick with wet now rather than order some dry, but still in two minds..:ciappa:
> 
> I spoke to her about the drug I had found she looked it up and seems is a human medicine that there is information about for dogs but not cats so she said better to start with the steroids first if I need to..:sosp::sosp:
> 
> So course of action is to keep on with the food and hopefully find 2or 3 foods he can eat..if the runny bum starts on the kangaroo I can give him the steroids, it is a very low dose 1/2 pill per day, or I can give 1/2 pill twice a day, then taper it off if he begins to improve..
> 
> Please excuse the over use of smileys I have a three year old on my lap "helping" me type this..
> 
> :rolleyes5: :incazzato: :001_wub:


What a shame he has lost a little weight  Hopefully the horse will go down well,it is such a hard job this trying to find suitable foods.
Meeko has settled again on famotidine, he hasnt been sick for 10 days and is full of life,but I'm fully aware this could change tomorrow 
When we tried Meeko on steroids they made no difference other than making him very lethargic,at least we think that was the cause.


----------



## Cazzer

oh dear sorry to hear Riley has lost weight  Hope he will enjoy the horse and that it suits him.

Its nice to have a helper though when typing though 

Hope Meeko continues not to be sick as well

Keshet & Kgosi are back to normal BTW and still enjoying some raw. They've had a bit of raw chicken tonight and have ordered some beef for them to try in my weekly shop. If they like that I think I will go to local farm shop on Saturday and get some more bits for them, and then think about doing a NI order.


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> oh dear sorry to hear Riley has lost weight  Hope he will enjoy the horse and that it suits him.
> 
> Its nice to have a helper though when typing though
> 
> Hope Meeko continues not to be sick as well
> 
> *Keshet & Kgosi are back to normal BTW and still enjoying some raw. They've had a bit of raw chicken tonight and have ordered some beef for them to try in my weekly shop.* If they like that I think I will go to local farm shop on Saturday and get some more bits for them, and then think about doing a NI order.


Good to read Keshet&Kgosi are feeling lots better.Wouldnt it be nice to have all our furbabes well and happy at the same time


----------



## jenny armour

just to also let you know that charley is still doing ok after her steroidd jab last monday. poo is nice and firm


----------



## Cazzer

excellent news Jenny!!


----------



## Cazzer

just placed my first order with vet concept. OH will probably go mad given the cat food mountain we have but I am keen to get Karlo something else in addition to the RC sensitivity control. He's gone off the Grau [and it upsets the kittens a bit] and I'm not altogether keen on the ropocat chicken [neither are they]. It makes so much difference to have a 'normal' food when we got away given cat sitter refuses to feed him separate to the other 6 [soon to be 7] cats. It makes it so expensive when feeding them all Karlo's RC sachets at such times. So I've ordered 1 x 6 packs of poultry, lamb,rabbit, kangaroo and reindeer. I'm thinking whatever doesn't suit Karlo, Keshet and Kgosi the remainder can eat.

will see how we do!


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> just placed my first order with vet concept. OH will probably go mad given the cat food mountain we have but I am keen to get Karlo something else in addition to the RC sensitivity control. He's gone off the Grau [and it upsets the kittens a bit] and I'm not altogether keen on the ropocat chicken [neither are they]. It makes so much difference to have a 'normal' food when we got away given cat sitter refuses to feed him separate to the other 6 [soon to be 7] cats. It makes it so expensive when feeding them all Karlo's RC sachets at such times. So I've ordered 1 x 6 packs of poultry, lamb,rabbit, kangaroo and reindeer. I'm thinking whatever doesn't suit Karlo, Keshet and Kgosi the remainder can eat.
> 
> will see how we do!


Good luck,I wish Mr Fussy Knickers would just at least try some of these foods,but sadly he just point blank refuses


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What a shame he has lost a little weight  Hopefully the horse will go down well,it is such a hard job this trying to find suitable foods.
> Meeko has settled again on famotidine, he hasnt been sick for 10 days and is full of life,but I'm fully aware this could change tomorrow
> When we tried Meeko on steroids they made no difference other than making him very lethargic,at least we think that was the cause.


I was a bit disappointed but she seemed ok with the weight loss, guess I was just hopeful for even just a small gain..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> just placed my first order with vet concept. OH will probably go mad given the cat food mountain we have but I am keen to get Karlo something else in addition to the RC sensitivity control. He's gone off the Grau [and it upsets the kittens a bit] and I'm not altogether keen on the ropocat chicken [neither are they]. It makes so much difference to have a 'normal' food when we got away given cat sitter refuses to feed him separate to the other 6 [soon to be 7] cats. It makes it so expensive when feeding them all Karlo's RC sachets at such times. So I've ordered 1 x 6 packs of poultry, lamb,rabbit, kangaroo and reindeer. I'm thinking whatever doesn't suit Karlo, Keshet and Kgosi the remainder can eat.
> 
> will see how we do!


I've ordered the kangaroo, rabbit and horse!


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> just to also let you know that charley is still doing ok after her steroidd jab last monday. poo is nice and firm


Brilliant news..


----------



## jenny armour

Cazzer said:


> just placed my first order with vet concept. OH will probably go mad given the cat food mountain we have but I am keen to get Karlo something else in addition to the RC sensitivity control. He's gone off the Grau [and it upsets the kittens a bit] and I'm not altogether keen on the ropocat chicken [neither are they]. It makes so much difference to have a 'normal' food when we got away given cat sitter refuses to feed him separate to the other 6 [soon to be 7] cats. It makes it so expensive when feeding them all Karlo's RC sachets at such times. So I've ordered 1 x 6 packs of poultry, lamb,rabbit, kangaroo and reindeer. I'm thinking whatever doesn't suit Karlo, Keshet and Kgosi the remainder can eat.
> 
> will see how we do!


soon to be 7 another wegie?


----------



## Cazzer

no Jenny Coonie!

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/285951-news-vikings.html!!


----------



## chillminx

buffie said:


> I knew I'd read something ,somewhere .............
> Longhair Cats


Very interesting article Buffie -- thanks for posting the link


----------



## buffie

chillminx said:


> Very interesting article Buffie -- thanks for posting the link


I love the "Messybeast" site it is full of interesting stuff


----------



## Tao2

Yes thanks for posting that link Buffie. If longhairs have only been round a few hundred years...that's not a very long time to manage to cope with all that extra hair efficiently. 
So my thinking is that the relatively short history of longhaired domestic cats, coupled with the wide prevalence of hairballs in longhairs, all points to the occasional hairball being normal rather than a symptom of IBD. 

Have just been having a look at Pallas cats to see how longhaired they are in comparison with a domestic longhair (the article suggested longhaired cats maybe descended from them), they are seriously fluffy, fat and a bit mad looking. It seems that the Fluff Monster is actually a Pallas cat and I never realised


----------



## nicolaa123

Well pleased to report we still have solid poo here..hunger seems to still be a lot lower, not crying and crying like he was so will look out for signs of him demanding food, as then I will know he will have a flare up.

Also pleased it does not seem the kangaroo that affected him..looking forward to trying the rabbit and horse next..

How are all you cats now?


----------



## Cazzer

Thats good news Nicola 

Karlo is fine poop wise. However he has not eaten much of the RC today. I'm not sure whether he is gone off of this  or whether its something else eg tooth again. I did give him some Chicken Grau earlier today and he did eat a bit of that though whereas last week he wouldn't touch it. 

BTW does VC send out an email when they have sent the order as have not heard from them since they queried what size tins I wanted on Thursday.


----------



## Cazzer

Oh and the little uns are still fine


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Thats good news Nicola
> 
> Karlo is fine poop wise. However he has not eaten much of the RC today. I'm not sure whether he is gone off of this  or whether its something else eg tooth again. I did give him some Chicken Grau earlier today and he did eat a bit of that though whereas last week he wouldn't touch it.
> 
> BTW does VC send out an email when they have sent the order as have not heard from them since they queried what size tins I wanted on Thursday.


They don't tend to email, but when I send my email order I ask them to email me back to confirm the order, you can also ask them for a tracking number to track your parcel..


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> I've ordered the kangaroo, rabbit and horse!


There is a horse flavour? We are about to make an order with VC as well, but I could not find the horse flavour?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> There is a horse flavour? We are about to make an order with VC as well, but I could not find the horse flavour?


Soft Premium Diet Cat SANA 200g - Nassnahrung Cat SANA Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

You have to ask yor vet to sign a form as its vet only food over there..mine signed the form no problem and no charge 

What have you ordered?


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> Soft Premium Diet Cat SANA 200g - Nassnahrung Cat SANA Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG
> 
> You have to ask yor vet to sign a form as its vet only food over there..mine signed the form no problem and no charge
> 
> What have you ordered?


Thanks! I would love to try that. We are planning to order Rabbit, Kangaroo and Reindeer. On top of that, I am also planning to order from Floyds for more CatzFineFood. I just went to Hamburg a week ago and bought it off the shelf from a pet store. I am happy to say that Mathias did very well on the Crab and Herring flavour, which I wasn't really expecting. He even had less bowel movements with it (2x). He usually goes 3 to 4 times a day despite the fact that 75% of his diet is raw. They are all nice and solid though.

Are there any reasons why it's prescription-only? Mathias has not been diagnosed with IBD, but I am 100% sure he is intolerant to certain meats such as Chicken, Beef, Duck and possibly Salmon! I am not sure if they will be okay if the Vet simply puts that on the diagnosis?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> Thanks! I would love to try that. We are planning to order Rabbit, Kangaroo and Reindeer. On top of that, I am also planning to order from Floyds for more CatzFineFood. I just went to Hamburg a week ago and bought it off the shelf from a pet store. I am happy to say that Mathias did very well on the Crab and Herring flavour, which I wasn't really expecting. He even had less bowel movements with it (2x). He usually goes 3 to 4 times a day despite the fact that 75% of his diet is raw. They are all nice and solid though.
> 
> Are there any reasons why it's prescription-only? Mathias has not been diagnosed with IBD, but I am 100% sure he is intolerant to certain meats such as Chicken, Beef, Duck and possibly Salmon! I am not sure if they will be okay if the Vet simply puts that on the diagnosis?


Not really sure why.. mine put on the form chronic diarrhoea and suspected ibd with food intolerance..

Talking of bowel movements on the kangaroo, Riley seems to have smaller and no smell poo..the snow is helping me see more


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> Not really sure why.. mine put on the form chronic diarrhoea and suspected ibd with food intolerance..
> 
> Talking of bowel movements on the kangaroo, Riley seems to have smaller and no smell poo..the snow is helping me see more


What is his average frequency? Mathias definitely has smaller poops with certain brands and flavours of wet food. I wonder if the frequency is due to him being a kitten and practically eating all day. I monitor his weight everyday and so far it has been increasing.


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> What is his average frequency? Mathias definitely has smaller poops with certain brands and flavours of wet food. I wonder if the frequency is due to him being a kitten and practically eating all day. I monitor his weight everyday and so far it has been increasing.


At the moment we are approx every one and a half days and small round bits rather than when he was on I/d dry, big long ones..weight wise he lost again but just a little, am hoping if he takes to new food and no reactions we can maintain weight rather than loose..but that's one thing with ibd, he does not seem to absorb what he needs from the food


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> At the moment we are approx every one and a half days and small round bits rather than when he was on I/d dry, big long ones..weight wise he lost again but just a little, am hoping if he takes to new food and no reactions we can maintain weight rather than loose..but that's one thing with ibd, he does not seem to absorb what he needs from the food


I think the less frequent bowel movements is definitely a good sign. Mathias also has the small, dark brown round bits which float on water (it's meant to be good when they do), but his is just too frequent. It's like having 3 cats in the household, or 6 cats on raw!

Have you considered giving him probiotics by the way? I am going to start giving him Bio-Kult and then try to give him the Natural Instinct Chicken & Lamb after a month and see if it improves anything.


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> I think the less frequent bowel movements is definitely a good sign. Mathias also has the small, dark brown round bits which float on water (it's meant to be good when they do), but his is just too frequent. It's like having 3 cats in the household, or 6 cats on raw!
> 
> Have you considered giving him probiotics by the way? I am going to start giving him Bio-Kult and then try to give him the Natural Instinct Chicken & Lamb after a month and see if it improves anything.


He did not do well on the probiotics so am cautious of giving them again, tho could have been the ab,s he was also on at the time, but as he nearly ended up with an overnight stay at vet, it kind of put me off..

Has your vet suggested any tests at all?


----------



## buffie

Alessa said:


> Thanks! I would love to try that. We are planning to order Rabbit, Kangaroo and Reindeer. On top of that, I am also planning to order from Floyds for more CatzFineFood. I just went to Hamburg a week ago and bought it off the shelf from a pet store. I am happy to say that Mathias did very well on the Crab and Herring flavour, which I wasn't really expecting. He even had less bowel movements with it (2x). He usually goes 3 to 4 times a day despite the fact that 75% of his diet is raw. They are all nice and solid though.
> 
> Are there any reasons why it's prescription-only? Mathias has not been diagnosed with IBD, but I am 100% sure he is intolerant to certain meats such as Chicken, Beef, Duck and possibly Salmon! I am not sure if they will be okay if the Vet simply puts that on the diagnosis?


I thought Mathias had been diagnosed with IBD .Has he had any tests to find out what could be causing his symptoms.


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123 said:


> He did not do well on the probiotics so am cautious of giving them again, tho could have been the ab,s he was also on at the time, but as he nearly ended up with an overnight stay at vet, it kind of put me off..
> 
> Has your vet suggested any tests at all?


It's definitely worth a try as theoretically, probiotics are very good for those with IBD both in people and animals. Which probiotic strain did you try him on?

No tests after the stool test, which came out all negative. We've pretty much caught the problem before it could affect his growth and weight. Since I am monitoring his weight everyday, I know that he gains about 0.03-0.09 kg a day. He is 3.7 kg at 6 months, which is pretty average for a male Ragdoll I think? I am going to ask for a blood test pre-neutering to make sure his kidney and liver functions are normal. Why do you ask?



buffie said:


> I thought Mathias had been diagnosed with IBD .Has he had any tests to find out what could be causing his symptoms.


What gave you that impression?

Oh right I get it, you _both _are worrying that I might be silly enough not to go to the vets to make sure everything is alright ^_^. Does that answer your question? If you are wondering why I haven't done an allergy test, I did suggest if it will help, but the vets did not think it was necessary considering I've already inadvertently done an elimination diet, with Chicken and Beef as the culprits. As for bowel movements, what's more important is the consistency rather than the frequency. On top of that, he's a kitten and he eats a lot. I was just being really particular about it, because there aren't really any dedicates information about bowel frequency and possible IBD.

As for why I am following this thread, even without an IBD diagnosis, I think I read on several IBD articles that intolerance to certain foods could be the start of an IBD later on in life. I am not pre-empting it, but I just want to know how people whose cats have IBD are dealing with it + alternative sources of meat, I am pretty much on the same boat as you guys. Surely that's not a crime, is it?


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> It's definitely worth a try as theoretically, probiotics are very good for those with IBD both in people and animals. Which probiotic strain did you try him on?
> 
> No tests after the stool test, which came out all negative. We've pretty much caught the problem before it could affect his growth and weight. Since I am monitoring his weight everyday, I know that he gains about 0.03-0.09 kg a day. He is 3.7 kg at 6 months, which is pretty average for a male Ragdoll I think? I am going to ask for a blood test per-neutering to make sure his kidney and liver functions are normal. Why do you ask?
> 
> What gave you that impression?
> 
> Oh right I get it, you both are worrying that I might be silly enough not to go to the vets to make sure everything is alright ^_^. Does that answer your question?


it was a genuine qustion as in you are and have been worried about him and been to the vets and did they suggest any tests?? I don't think anyone is silly for going to the vets with a concern..


----------



## buffie

Alessa said:


> It's definitely worth a try as theoretically, probiotics are very good for those with IBD both in people and animals. Which probiotic strain did you try him on?
> 
> No tests after the stool test, which came out all negative. We've pretty much caught the problem before it could affect his growth and weight. Since I am monitoring his weight everyday, I know that he gains about 0.03-0.09 kg a day. He is 3.7 kg at 6 months, which is pretty average for a male Ragdoll I think? I am going to ask for a blood test per-neutering to make sure his kidney and liver functions are normal. Why do you ask?
> 
> What gave you that impression?
> 
> Oh right I get it, you both are worrying that I might be silly enough not to go to the vets to make sure everything is alright ^_^. Does that answer your question?


The reason I asked was that my Raggie has had,blood tests/specific blood test for pancreatitis/xrays/scans/endoscopy/biopsy and the results all point to IBD but you dont mention any testing or results so was just wondering what brought your vet to the conclusion that It was IBD.I wouldnt like to think I had been conned by my vet into having all these tests done unnecessarily.


----------



## Alessa

nicolaa123, ah well it sounded as if you guys did not think I even tried to go to the vets to make sure everything is fine :glare:. I guess it's late and things sounded more patronising to me than they really are, so apologies for being a bit miffed about it . I also don't want to get "kicked out" of the thread just because he wasn't diagnosed with IBD. What the thread provides is useful information on elimination diet as well as resources and it is invaluable both to IBD sufferers and those with food intolerance.

buffie, Wait... what ? The vets _did not_ conclude he had IBD. I never said this on any of my posts. Isn't that what a "diagnosis" means? I did say he wasn't diagnosed and the vets do not think it's IBD, but rather more a* food intolerance*, which could lead to IBD later on if not addressed properly. We've been successful at the elimination diet and they did not think it was necessary to put him through a lot of tests if he has been producing solid, well-formed stools and gaining weight on certain foods. I've edited my previous reply regarding allergy tests.


----------



## nicolaa123

No worries...


----------



## buffie

Alessa said:


> buffie, Wait... what ? The vets _did not_ conclude he had IBD. I never said this on any of my posts. Isn't that what a "diagnosis" means? I did say he wasn't diagnosed and the vets do not think it's IBD, but rather more a* food intolerance*, which could lead to IBD later on if not addressed properly. We've been successful at the elimination diet and they did not think it was necessary to put him through a lot of tests if he has been producing solid, well-formed stools and gaining weight on certain foods. I've edited my previous reply regarding allergy tests.


My mistake,I thought he had possible IBD,but without testing it could be many things,food intolerance being one of them.
As long as he is settled now that is what is important.


----------



## nicolaa123

Horse is a hit!! Please keep your fingers crossed for us..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Horse is a hit!! Please keep your fingers crossed for us..


Not sure whether to say :thumbup::thumbup: or . 
Hope it works okay for Riley  fingers and paws crossed here.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not sure whether to say :thumbup::thumbup: or .
> Hope it works okay for Riley  fingers and paws crossed here.


Ah yeah sorry..uhm uhm..uhm..uhm..

He was very happy and took himself off to his cat carrier for an early night..I will see how the rabbit is in few days and send you one to try, well not you


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah yeah sorry..uhm uhm..uhm..uhm..
> 
> He was very happy and took himself off to his cat carrier for an early night..I will see how the rabbit is in few days and send you one to try, well not you


Hope he doesnt have "nightmares" :lol::lol:
Thanks for the kind thought but I really think it is a waste of good food ,the ungrateful sod just wont eat anything that is good for him.I've just about given up trying to convert him.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope he doesnt have "nightmares" :lol::lol:
> Thanks for the kind thought but I really think it is a waste of good food ,the ungrateful sod just wont eat anything that is good for him.I've just about given up trying to convert him.


Let me see how it is..you never know..I just hope Riley takes to it, we had little bit runny bum earlier, only thing different is I've started giving him logic again as noticed bit plaque on one tooth..think could have been that? Think will just I've him the logic once a week? It is so arrrrrrggggghhhhhhh


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Let me see how it is..you never know..I just hope Riley takes to it, we had little bit runny bum earlier, only thing different is I've started giving him logic again as noticed bit plaque on one tooth..think could have been that? Think will just I've him the logic once a week? It is so arrrrrrggggghhhhhhh


This is one of the big problems with IBD or whatever it is,every time there is a slight change in the fluffy little darlings we look for something to blame  when it could just be a coincdence.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> This is one of the big problems with IBD or whatever it is,every time there is a slight change in the fluffy little darlings we look for something to blame  when it could just be a coincdence.


Oh yeah I agree..I just know I don't want to go back to diarrhoea every day! Guess that is why I'm looking for something else to blame and clinging to the kangaroo as that is what he has been best on out of all he has eaten.

Strangely I am pleased he comes and tells me and let's me clean him as the thought of him cleaning himself is well yuck!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh yeah I agree..I just know I don't want to go back to diarrhoea every day! Guess that is why I'm looking for something else to blame and clinging to the kangaroo as that is what he has been best on out of all he has eaten.
> 
> Strangely I am pleased he comes and tells me and let's me clean him as the thought of him cleaning himself is well yuck!!


If Meeko gets dirty trousers and luckily it hasnt happened very often he just waits until I notice  There is no way on this earth that he is going to clean it himself.Thats what staff are for


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If Meeko gets dirty trousers and luckily it hasnt happened very often he just waits until I notice  There is no way on this earth that he is going to clean it himself.Thats what staff are for


Fancy a cat swap??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Fancy a cat swap??


Strangely enough ,no thanks .I would rather cope with vomit than dire rear :arf: although I'm sure Riley is a gorgeous lad


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Strangely enough ,no thanks .I would rather cope with vomit than dire rear :arf: although I'm sure Riley is a gorgeous lad


Ha ha.....I don't blame you at all


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ha ha.....I don't blame you at all


Well I'm about ready to call it a night,Meeko has crashed out on the couch,I'll see if I can sneak off before he notices. 
Speak soon and good luck with the h---e


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Well I'm about ready to call it a night,Meeko has crashed out on the couch,I'll see if I can sneak off before he notices.
> Speak soon and good luck with the h---e


Good idea Riley is still sleeping so I'm gonna sneak off too..nite x


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok..so I'm not sure on the horse it's either a) he does not like it so much b) it fills him up more so is not eating as much c) he is still in his anorexic phase..

Today he has had barely 50g of food and has not asked me for anymore..think I will try a little rabbit and see how that goes..

I've stopped the logic just in case, so am looking at other teeth cleaning solutions now  I have been looking at toys that clean their teeth..


----------



## Tao2

Oohh I didn't know you could get toys that clean their teeth. Fluff Beast loves toys and hates anything remotely related to teeth cleaning. In fact he is quite scary if he thinks anything tooth related is on the agenda. I know, I know, I'm a wuss, how scary can a fluffy little pussycat be? Strangely, when I have the toothpaste, all the fluff seems to disappear and be replaced by 6kg of violent teeth and claws.....
Teeth cleaning toys could be the answer!!! Nicola, do you have a link?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oohh I didn't know you could get toys that clean their teeth. Fluff Beast loves toys and hates anything remotely related to teeth cleaning. In fact he is quite scary if he thinks anything tooth related is on the agenda. I know, I know, I'm a wuss, how scary can a fluffy little pussycat be? Strangely, when I have the toothpaste, all the fluff seems to disappear and be replaced by 6kg of violent teeth and claws.....
> Teeth cleaning toys could be the answer!!! Nicola, do you have a link?


Have been looking at this one Cat Dental Toys: Catnip Dental Toys for Cats: Dental Health Chews for Cats


----------



## Cazzer

Hope the rabbit is a bit more successful Nicola. I would like to know how you get on with the toys as well 

I wish I could update you on my VC order to say Karlo loves it and it suits his tum. sadly I cannot . I obtained the tracking number yesterday and saw that it was at my local depot so assumed it would be delivered today. Wrong nothing at all not even a card. Checked online and saw it had never left the depot. phoned DPD and they said they weren't give a house number or a post code by VC 

Anyway Karlo will be getting his order tomorrow [and I'm working at home so itn won't get redelivered]


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Hope the rabbit is a bit more successful Nicola. I would like to know how you get on with the toys as well
> 
> I wish I could update you on my VC order to say Karlo loves it and it suits his tum. sadly I cannot . I obtained the tracking number yesterday and saw that it was at my local depot so assumed it would be delivered today. Wrong nothing at all not even a card. Checked online and saw it had never left the depot. phoned DPD and they said they weren't give a house number or a post code by VC
> 
> Anyway Karlo will be getting his order tomorrow [and I'm working at home so itn won't get redelivered]


Rabbit is really nice..he he ate some about 15g and is now sat on the coffee table purring..I mixed with some kangaroo, but he has really enjoyed the rabbit and is still looking at me purring!!

Odd with the vc thing, I would send them an email about the error..plus to make sure your record is updated !


----------



## Tao2

Just had a look at those dental toys, he already has some mice with that mesh on them (the ones that aren't Mousey), I wonder if they would help keep his teeth clean? If only I could figure out where the devil he has secreted them....


----------



## nicolaa123

Other than the toys only thing I could try is gentle brushing with some water..I will get one of the petstages rings from pets at home tomorrow, think they do the mice as well, he has also got some of them mice but I have no idea where they are either!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just had a look at those dental toys, he already has some mice with that mesh on them (the ones that aren't Mousey), I wonder if they would help keep his teeth clean? If only I could figure out where the devil he has secreted them....


Meeko has ,as you say,the ones that arnt "mousey"/a catnip "thing" and he has a Pet stages dental ring (3 rings connected a triangle)but he neither plays with them nor "chews" on them


----------



## Cazzer

well it seems VC order isn't coming today after all 

Checked the DPD website earlier today to check that it was out for delivery as had been arranged last night with them. Only to see that it wasn't that it was still being 'held' at the depot  phoned and was told that it should of gone out and they didn't know why it didn't. It should now be tomorrow, as impossible to get out today 

have emailed VC complaining about the fact they didn't put house or post code on and had no response 

had a reply from VC they say the correct details were put on the address lable and that DPD have told them the label was damaged in transit...............


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> well it seems VC order isn't coming today after all
> 
> Checked the DPD website earlier today to check that it was out for delivery as had been arranged last night with them. Only to see that it wasn't that it was still being 'held' at the depot  phoned and was told that it should of gone out and they didn't know why it didn't. It should now be tomorrow, as impossible to get out today
> 
> have emailed VC complaining about the fact they didn't put house or post code on and had no response
> 
> had a reply from VC they say the correct details were put on the address lable and that DPD have told them the label was damaged in transit...............


Oh no! What a nuisance!

Well we will try bit more rabbit tonight, he does not seem so keen when I mix flavours  came home to nice tray deposit..so horse and rabbit look ok so far,...if he holds I will try the logic again and see if could be a trigger or was a coincidence.


----------



## Tao2

Fingers crossed things keep going well Nicola, would be great to have a few different foods up your sleeve just in case. I've been planning to get some Logic, think I'll hang fire until you try him on it again to see if that is the culprit. I have some 'plaque off' which goes down quite well with the Beast, no idea if it has any effect though and am too scared to give it to Mittens at the moment, just in case it sets her off. Things going really well here, have not been experimenting with any new foods since before Christmas and there have been no runs and just the odd hairball (no idea who was responsible...). Am delighted. She's not put on any more weight though which is a shame, and Fluff Beast hasn't lost any despite my efforts to get him onto wet which have not been going down well at all....


----------



## Cazzer

well I am pleased to report that the VC delivery was made today 

Karlo has had a little bit of the chicken one and seemed to enjoy. We will see what happens at the rear end in due course 

The others were mad keen for the scraps he didn't eat so I think it will prove popular with all.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Fingers crossed things keep going well Nicola, would be great to have a few different foods up your sleeve just in case. I've been planning to get some Logic, think I'll hang fire until you try him on it again to see if that is the culprit. I have some 'plaque off' which goes down quite well with the Beast, no idea if it has any effect though and am too scared to give it to Mittens at the moment, just in case it sets her off. Things going really well here, have not been experimenting with any new foods since before Christmas and there have been no runs and just the odd hairball (no idea who was responsible...). Am delighted. She's not put on any more weight though which is a shame, and Fluff Beast hasn't lost any despite my efforts to get him onto wet which have not been going down well at all....


I think the rabbit maybe causing a reaction the rabbit has potato, the kangaroo has parsnip as the extra bit..I've been off work today (awful 24hr sickness bug thing was up all night) and today he did come back with a bit of a mucky bum (last thing I needed with a hurling stomach)

I have mixed a little bit in again tonight then will give a few days just on kangaroo then add again to see if it is the rabbit or I pushed things too quickly..

I am pleased to hear mittens is doing ok..long may it last..


----------



## Alessa

Does anyone on here have any idea how to pay Vet Concept??? I ordered and got an e-mail confirming my order but I am at loss with the payment procedure. If it's bank transfer, I might back out since it costs £9 to transfer money alone 0_0


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> well I am pleased to report that the VC delivery was made today
> 
> Karlo has had a little bit of the chicken one and seemed to enjoy. We will see what happens at the rear end in due course
> 
> The others were mad keen for the scraps he didn't eat so I think it will prove popular with all.


Fingers crossed for you..


----------



## nicolaa123

Alessa said:


> Does anyone on here have any idea how to pay Vet Concept??? I ordered and got an e-mail confirming my order but I am at loss with the payment procedure. If it's bank transfer, I might back out since it costs £9 to transfer money alone 0_0


Hi, it is by bank transfer chillminx did find a cheaper way to do it, you could pm her..I think tho as delivery is only 5 and also get a 5% discount on my orders plus their scheme if you get 50 points you get 12.95 credited to your account I can offset the cost of paying..


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear you've not been well nicola, hope you feel better today.

The good news is that there is nothing nasty in the litter tray or on Karlo's fluffy trousers. 

The bad news is I'm not sure that he will eat the chicken on its own. He's still having it with the RC and even then he seems reluctant. Not sure if it is the taste or the texture as the RC is very moist and the VC isn't. Maybe I'll add a little water.

Actually he's just had a good feed of the RC/VC mix!!


----------



## Cazzer

poor Karlo has dire rear 

and has been sick.................


----------



## Cazzer

He's just been spectacularly sick again 

Seems that the chicken VC doesn't agree with him


----------



## Cazzer

He's been sick again this time all froth. He's looking really unhappy 

I'm not sure if it is the food or whether its what Keshet/Kgosi had. If its the latter he doesn't appear to have been sick/dire rear as often as them. I know I suffer from really bad heart burn if I eat something that doesn't agree with me, so hoping it is the VC and he will feel better soon.

My vet branch has closed now and would have to take him to their hospital which is a few miles away. That would really stress him though


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> He's been sick again this time all froth. He's looking really unhappy
> 
> I'm not sure if it is the food or whether its what Keshet/Kgosi had. If its the latter he doesn't appear to have been sick/dire rear as often as them. I know I suffer from really bad heart burn if I eat something that doesn't agree with me, so hoping it is the VC and he will feel better soon.
> 
> My vet branch has closed now and would have to take him to their hospital which is a few miles away. That would really stress him though


Oh no,poor Karlo  Hope he is feeling better soon.The timing would seem to point to it being food related,but maybe its just a coincidence


----------



## Tao2

Anybody got any ideas how I can get Mittens to put on a bit of weight WITHOUT causing her dietary upset? She is going through a really good spell (note that I do not have the courage to say that she completely better), no vomiting, no dire rear, no lethargy, all good. So now I would like her to put on a little bit of weight....

Her current diet is
Some home cooked chicken in broth
Integra sensitive turkey & rice
Kattovit Gastro
Kattovit Monoprotein
Grau grain-free chicken and fish
Miamor chicken and rice

Oh and there is some dry food available if she so chooses: currently on offer is Porta 21, Feline Finest sensitive grain-free but I don't think she has much/any of it.

I alternate the tins as she turns her nose up at 2 same flavour tins in a row. Any tips for getting her to eat a bit more gratefully received.

She weighs just under 3kg, she has been down to 2.5kg at her worst and closer to 3.5kg at her best. She is a small cat, but I think she could do with putting on 0.5kg.


----------



## chillminx

I have found one of the best ways to get a cat to put weight on is to feed them a high protein wet food, little and often. In fact your cat's diet is very similar to my cat's diet, who also has IBD. 

My cat seems able to eat only about 40 grams of food at a time, so I feed him about 5 or 6 times a day, making a total intake of about 200-250 grams a day. If he eats any less than that his weight begins falling fast.


----------



## Tao2

Thanks for your reply Chillminx. She is the same about not managing large quantities, and I do try and feed her little and often. She is not getting through anything like 200-250g per day though, if I could get her up to that kind of quantity I would be much happier.


----------



## Alessa

Thanks nicola, I may have to postpone to order until we visit Berlin next month.

And Tao2, does she have any favourite food or treat that does not give her the dire rear? I find that in powdered form and sprinkled on top of food, it acts as an appetite stimulant and Mathias ends up eating a lot more than usual. Like you guys, he can't go through more than 50g of food at a time. His appetite also increases later in the day.


----------



## nicolaa123

I find if Riley eats too much he has the runs..I would love to maintain right now, but he keeps loosing


----------



## Cazzer

sorry to hear he is losing weight Nicola thats something I never have to worry about with Karlo as he is always a chunky monkey. Hoping he will stay stable soon. 

Tao2 will she eat the chicken raw as I think that is meant to be a good way of putting weight on?

Karlo meanwhile is 100% fine. Vet says to keep him on the sensitivity control until next week and then try the VC. Have agreed to try the kangaroo though rather than the chicken given he was ok with it when Nicola kindly sent him a tin.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> sorry to hear he is losing weight Nicola thats something I never have to worry about with Karlo as he is always a chunky monkey. Hoping he will stay stable soon.
> 
> Tao2 will she eat the chicken raw as I think that is meant to be a good way of putting weight on?
> 
> Karlo meanwhile is 100% fine. Vet says to keep him on the sensitivity control until next week and then try the VC. Have agreed to try the kangaroo though rather than the chicken given he was ok with it when Nicola kindly sent him a tin.


I will take him end of February for a weight check..he is only loosing small amounts each time, but it's still going wrong way 

We are just back on kangaroo as he did not eat his horse last night. I will try the rabbit again and see how he fares..the hunt for a second food carries on..


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Karlo meanwhile is 100% fine. Vet says to keep him on the sensitivity control until next week and then try the VC. Have agreed to try the kangaroo though rather than the chicken given he was ok with it when Nicola kindly sent him a tin.


Good to read that Karlo is back to normal  Hope he has got over what ever it was and is back on the right track again


----------



## buffie

Meeko has just passed 3 weeks of no vomiting,he is still on a quarter tab famotidine,has enough for another 7/8 days.When they are finished the vet wants to see how he goes without them.
Has anybody else used famotidine for IBD,if so how did your cats respond?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko has just passed 3 weeks of no vomiting,he is still on a quarter tab famotidine,has enough for another 7/8 days.When they are finished the vet wants to see how he goes without them.
> Has anybody else used famotidine for IBD,if so how did your cats respond?


Not used myself..but 3 weeks is brilliant, Riley's record is 22 days!! I'm still toying with the steroids as his polyp is paying up and I'm seeing very small amount of blood even when he has not been to toilet..

Long may Meeko continue!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Not used myself..but 3 weeks is brilliant, Riley's record is 22 days!! I'm still toying with the steroids as his polyp is paying up and I'm seeing very small amount of blood even when he has not been to toilet..
> 
> Long may Meeko continue!!


Meeko didnt respond to steroids at all.They made him very lethargic and he hated the taste 
I believe Meeko can stay on Famotidine for life if necessary so just wondered if anyone else had experience of using them.Was thinking of trying Protexin Pro-biotics but it seems to be more used with "dire rear" and he doesnt have that problem,will run it past the vet later.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko didnt respond to steroids at all.They made him very lethargic and he hated the taste
> I believe Meeko can stay on Famotidine for life if necessary so just wondered if anyone else had experience of using them.Was thinking of trying Protexin Pro-biotics but it seems to be more used with "dire rear" and he doesnt have that problem,will run it past the vet later.


I'm not sure, but did cazzer try famotidine?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm not sure, but did cazzer try famotidine?


You could be right,I thought I read somewhere that someone's cat had started on them.Meeko has had them off and on since March last year but this is the longest he will have been on them at one time.Not sure I want to stop them when he seems so well


----------



## nicolaa123

*sigh* I have started him on steroids..he has had runny bum, plus his polyp has got to the point of irritating him so much he has started to scoot on the carpet leaving trail of blood..I don't know what else to do..

He won't eat the horse, rabbit no good, now if he is reacting to the kangaroo I'm at a loss over what I can feed, chicken is out, venison is out, the prescription diets are out, horse out, rabbit out, reindeer out..

He is on a low dose that I can increase. I weigh him at home and he has lost more weight. Vet said if carries on to give the steroids so we have! I feel crappy about it all.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *sigh* I have started him on steroids..he has had runny bum, plus his polyp has got to the point of irritating him so much he has started to scoot on the carpet leaving trail of blood..I don't know what else to do..
> 
> He won't eat the horse, rabbit no good, now if he is reacting to the kangaroo I'm at a loss over what I can feed, chicken is out, venison is out, the prescription diets are out, horse out, rabbit out, reindeer out..
> 
> He is on a low dose that I can increase. I weigh him at home and he has lost more weight. Vet said if carries on to give the steroids so we have! I feel crappy about it all.


Nicola I'm so sorry to read this .it seems you get a glimmer of hope and then it vanishes again.
Poor Riley,do you really think he is reacting to the kangaroo,was he showing "signs" before you started to try the other foods or could it be the addition of the other meats rather than the Kangaroo causing the problem


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola I'm so sorry to read this .it seems you get a glimmer of hope and then it vanishes again.
> Poor Riley,do you really think he is reacting to the kangaroo,was he showing "signs" before you started to try the other foods or could it be the addition of the other meats rather than the Kangaroo causing the problem


He had such a hunger near the end of the 22 days, that's when I tried the z/d biscuits and the ha biscuits..then I got him back on kangaroo and was better, the integra went through him..then he got better on just the kangaroo, he has not had much of the other food, the horse he won't really eat, the rabbit I stopped last week..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He had such a hunger near the end of the 22 days, that's when I tried the z/d biscuits and the ha biscuits..then I got him back on kangaroo and was better, the integra went through him..then he got better on just the kangaroo, he has not had much of the other food, the horse he won't really eat, the rabbit I stopped last week..


Maybe the different foods have caused a reaction which is taking a while to clear his system.What is he having now,is it just the kangaroo.
As for his weight,unless you are using the likes of digital "baby" scales the weight is difficult to judge.I know when I try to weigh Meeko using the bathroom scales I get varying weights so it isnt accurate.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Maybe the different foods have caused a reaction which is taking a while to clear his system.What is he having now,is it just the kangaroo.
> As for his weight,unless you are using the likes of digital "baby" scales the weight is difficult to judge.I know when I try to weigh Meeko using the bathroom scales I get varying weights so it isnt accurate.


Just the kangaroo has been for two days..I do weigh him on my scales they give me an idea..the polyp is bothering me as well, I hate to see him so uncomfortable with it and scooting..

Thinking about it, his hunger is up as well, just caught him up on kitchen counter, like he was the last time..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just the kangaroo has been for two days..I do weigh him on my scales they give me an idea..the polyp is bothering me as well, I hate to see him so uncomfortable with it and scooting..
> 
> Thinking about it, his hunger is up as well, just caught him up on kitchen counter, like he was the last time..


If I remember rightly didnt you find when his hunger increased you thought he may be about to have /was having a flare up.
God this disease is a bloody mystery as well as a right royal pain


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If I remember rightly didnt you find when his hunger increased you thought he may be about to have /was having a flare up.
> God this disease is a bloody mystery as well as a right royal pain


Yes you are right, that is what happened the last time..what I don't understand tho how can it be an intermittent reaction to food? Just dose not make sense to me. I am a person of logic, but I can't understand this!

I will try the course of steroids and see what if any difference it makes..even if it helps the polyp it would be good..I just feel like I've failed him, if that makes sense..


----------



## Cazzer

Oh Nicola so very sorry to hear this, poor poor Riley. try not to take this set back to heart and think you have failed him as you haven't. Re the tablets I think the kittens were on them briefly but I'm sure Karlo hasn't had them. hope the steroids settle things down x x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh Nicola so very sorry to hear this, poor poor Riley. try not to take this set back to heart and think you have failed him as you haven't. Re the tablets I think the kittens were on them briefly but I'm sure Karlo hasn't had them. hope the steroids settle things down x x


Thanks, he has taken himself off to his cat carrier, quite early for him, so thinking he is not feeling too good, I will see how he is in the morning, as can take him up to vets..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yes you are right, that is what happened the last time..what I don't understand tho how can it be an intermittent reaction to food? Just dose not make sense to me. I am a person of logic, but I can't understand this!
> 
> I will try the course of steroids and see what if any difference it makes..even if it helps the polyp it would be good..I just feel like I've failed him, if that makes sense..


My thinking too,with Meeko and his vomiting,I would have thought that if he was reacting to "something" in his food,why is it that when eating the same food he has "one" episode of vomiting and then goes up to 6/7 days before having another isolated single episode of vomiting and then on again to another few days.Logic tells you it isnt possible


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> My thinking too,with Meeko and his vomiting,I would have thought that if he was reacting to "something" in his food,why is it that when eating the same food he has "one" episode of vomiting and then goes up to 6/7 days before having another isolated single episode of vomiting and then on again to another few days.Logic tells you it isnt possible


Exactly it does not make sense to me at all!


----------



## Tao2

Just caught up with the thread. I agree with you Nicola and Buffie, this IBD thing has me tearing my hair out, I don't even know if it IS IBD even. It's so much floundering round in the dark and never feeling like you have a handle on what's going on. Still, I have suffered from migraine for most of my life and I still don't really understand the triggers of that and that's me, I can talk, I have the NHS and it is so much better understood and documented than blinking feline digestive upset....oooh I think I may be having a bit of a rant...


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Just caught up with the thread. I agree with you Nicola and Buffie, this IBD thing has me tearing my hair out, I don't even know if it IS IBD even. It's so much floundering round in the dark and never feeling like you have a handle on what's going on. Still, I have suffered from migraine for most of my life and I still don't really understand the triggers of that and that's me, I can talk, I have the NHS and it is so much better understood and documented than blinking feline digestive upset....oooh I think I may be having a bit of a rant...


Rant away..rant away!!


----------



## Tao2

I wanted to ask Buffie or anyone else out there who has a sicky cat have you noticed your cat licking its' lips (no, they don't have lips do they?) before it is sick? In our household it is known as 'the sick lick' as it generally precedes vomiting. Anyway, now she is (currently) vomit-free, I've noticed that she still sometimes does the sick lick. Do you think this means she is still feeling a bit queasy?? Or is it just a habit now?


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just caught up with the thread. I agree with you Nicola and Buffie, this IBD thing has me tearing my hair out, I don't even know if it IS IBD even. It's so much floundering round in the dark and never feeling like you have a handle on what's going on. Still, I have suffered from migraine for most of my life and I still don't really understand the triggers of that and that's me, I can talk, I have the NHS and it is so much better understood and documented than blinking feline digestive upset....oooh I think I may be having a bit of a rant...





nicolaa123 said:


> Rant away..rant away!!


^^^^^^ what she said


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks, he has taken himself off to his cat carrier, quite early for him, so thinking he is not feeling too good, I will see how he is in the morning, as can take him up to vets..


It's so depressing when they take themselves off like that isn't it? But at least they have a way of communicating that they are feeling rough so I suppose it's a good thing they do it really.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I wanted to ask Buffie or anyone else out there who has a sicky cat have you noticed your cat licking its' lips (no, they don't have lips do they?) before it is sick? In our household it is known as 'the sick lick' as it generally precedes vomiting. Anyway, now she is (currently) vomit-free, I've noticed that she still sometimes does the sick lick. Do you think this means she is still feeling a bit queasy?? Or is it just a habit now?


Meeko does this a lot,I believe it is because they feel nauseous(sp).He isnt always sick when he does it though.


----------



## Tao2

Maybe she is still feeling nauseous and that's why I'm struggling to get enough food in her even though she's not being sick/having diarhhoea any more....


----------



## Tao2

Nicola have you thought about finding a novel protein source that you could prepare for him so you know it has nothing else in it?? I know it wouldn't be complete but just to check? You could easily get rabbit, maybe venison...or some horse from Tesco


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Maybe she is still feeling nauseous and that's why I'm struggling to get enough food in her even though she's not being sick/having diarhhoea any more....


It is such a guessing game,even although between us we have damn near explored every bloomin' avenue there is and then some


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Maybe she is still feeling nauseous and that's why I'm struggling to get enough food in her even though she's not being sick/having diarhhoea any more....


When Riley had a bad reaction to either pro-kaolin or the ab's he was on he was very sick and was lip smacking a lot! He had to have an anti sickness injection to get him eating again..I hated seeing him so sick..

He has got up again and is moaning at me..think steroids are working..at least I'm home tomorrow..

Oh why can't this horrible thing be cured!! :incazzato::incazzato::incazzato::incazzato:


----------



## Tao2

I stopped giving Mittens pro-kolin for her diarrhoea because it made her vomit more so maybe it was that.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola have you thought about finding a novel protein source that you could prepare for him so you know it has nothing else in it?? I know it wouldn't be complete but just to check? You could easily get rabbit, maybe venison...or some horse from Tesco


I'm not confident on the adding of what he needs to be complete, plus I don't have a freezer..I've tried him on raw bits of meat but he has no interest at all in eating it


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I stopped giving Mittens pro-kolin for her diarrhoea because it made her vomit more so maybe it was that.


It did make me very wary of probiotics..he nearly had an over night stay as was so sick..


----------



## Tao2

No, I must agree that I'm not keen on starting to mess round with adding taurine etc. and I have been greeted with total disgust when I've tried offering bits of raw meat. Raw gets a bit of a mixed press with IBD anyway I think?
I was just thinking you could try it without the extras for a couple of meals but I suppose that's not long enough to get a handle on his response is it? Was just wracking my brains trying to think what you could try him with next but that was the only thing that came to mind.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> No, I must agree that I'm not keen on starting to mess round with adding taurine etc. and I have been greeted with total disgust when I've tried offering bits of raw meat. Raw gets a bit of a mixed press with IBD anyway I think?
> I was just thinking you could try it without the extras for a couple of meals but I suppose that's not long enough to get a handle on his response is it? Was just wracking my brains trying to think what you could try him with next but that was the only thing that came to mind.


You and me both!! If this is a reaction, I just don't know what I will be able to feed him, especially if he can react after a short time!!


----------



## nicolaa123

I've also started him on a course of metrondazole tonight as tonight he had poo up the length of his tail 

He seems ok tho..playing etc..his hunger has been up today, I tried not to give in, but he cried and cried for food


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley was very quiet this morning, he nibbled at breakfast then went back to bed..I was expecting to take him to vets tonight. When I got home, he was much more lively, ate his dinner, then a bit more later.

He has had diarrhoea but so so much less and was just on his bum, so looks like its calming down..

Am pleased he is not as quiet tonight and is being his usual pain in the bumness!!

Just hope we are getting it under control again..


----------



## Tao2

Glad he's on the up. Mittens has been off her food today as well (no sick/dire rear though), maybe it's Riley sympathy...


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Glad he's on the up. Mittens has been off her food today as well (no sick/dire rear though), maybe it's Riley sympathy...


He is still not eating as much but he seems better..hope mittens is not copying Riley..one of us has to break this..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, today looked promising..he ate his breakfast! Tonight no diarrhoea but he did have some blood on his bum..still it's going the right way!

He has not really had much of an appetite, but he is eating some..

I'm hoping we have turned a corner tho..and I can stop the meds next week..


----------



## Tao2

Good. Mittens fine too, she had just decided she isn't going to eat the Integra sensitive anymore. Think I might have to start experimenting with foods again as she is getting very sniffy about her current foods. What a pain, I don't want to change when she has been so well.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Good. Mittens fine too, she had just decided she isn't going to eat the Integra sensitive anymore. Think I might have to start experimenting with foods again as she is getting very sniffy about her current foods. What a pain, I don't want to change when she has been so well.


They are such a worry arnt they!! There is a really interesting food in the USA but they don't stock it here or Europe.. search for food continues..

Riley does not have an appetite but am putting that down to the metrondazole as always has the same effect..if all goes well, I hope to stop the ab's Wednesday and then the steroids after I've tapered them off, even tho vet said no need as such low dose..


----------



## nicolaa123

No diarrhoea again tonight, but polyp still playing up so little bit blood but much much less..

Don't know whether to stop meds Wednesday or give little longer until Friday


----------



## Cazzer

I'm on holiday at home for a week spending some time with our new kitten Kassiopeia, and the other cats. Agreed with vet that I would try Karlo this week with some of the VC kangaroo which he had mixed in with his RC today. He really did enjoy it  We shall have to wait and see what the result is at the rear end 

If it is successful then I shall have to find another way of paying VC though as my bank charged me £25


----------



## Tao2

£25 to bank, Ouch!! It's irritating 'cos VC and postage are pretty reasonable but is bumped up by blinking bank charges. That's why I'm still a Zooplus junkie....


----------



## Cazzer

Tao2 said:


> £25 to bank, Ouch!! It's irritating 'cos VC and postage are pretty reasonable but is bumped up by blinking bank charges. That's why I'm still a Zooplus junkie....


I think I worked it out it makes it as expensive as the RC pouches. Still if it suits Karlo I know which I'd rather feed!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I'm on holiday at home for a week spending some time with our new kitten Kassiopeia, and the other cats. Agreed with vet that I would try Karlo this week with some of the VC kangaroo which he had mixed in with his RC today. He really did enjoy it  We shall have to wait and see what the result is at the rear end
> 
> If it is successful then I shall have to find another way of paying VC though as my bank charged me £25


Was it a sepa payment?? Most banks offer a cheaper way if you do yourself online..which one was it if you don't mind me asking as I did some research on their fees..


----------



## nicolaa123

Quick update on Riley..he has more of an appetite and we are increasing the amount of food he is eating with his sprinkles  no diarrhoea or blood the polyp is behaving!! 

Meds wise 1/2 steroid every day now and no metronidazole, think was too much for him to have both together..still I know now..he seems happier and more energy, which I'm so happy about..it makes me feel so bad when he is ill, he is currently trying to chew my iPad..:thumbup:


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Was it a sepa payment?? Most banks offer a cheaper way if you do yourself online..which one was it if you don't mind me asking as I did some research on their fees..


I did it online via Nationwide Nicola it was a SWIFT payment



nicolaa123 said:


> Quick update on Riley..he has more of an appetite and we are increasing the amount of food he is eating with his sprinkles  no diarrhoea or blood the polyp is behaving!!
> 
> Meds wise 1/2 steroid every day now and no metronidazole, think was too much for him to have both together..still I know now..he seems happier and more energy, which I'm so happy about..it makes me feel so bad when he is ill, he is currently trying to chew my iPad..:thumbup:


thats great news. Always a good sign when they are naughty 

Karlo had soft poo this morning but no dire rear :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I did it online via Nationwide Nicola it was a SWIFT payment
> 
> thats great news. Always a good sign when they are naughty
> 
> Karlo had soft poo this morning but no dire rear :thumbup:


Nationwide do seem on of the more expensive ones..cm did find a way to transfer for about £5. It might be worth if you are going to make regular orders, look at another bank, I know Halifax is about £8 if you do online sepa payments. You could just open a basic account with online acess just for those payments..would save you £17 

Pleased Karlo seems to be doing better on the kangaroo!!

Riley has eaten much more today, nearly back to normal amounts again :thumbup:


----------



## Cazzer

thanks Nicola. Thats what I thought I'd do open another bank account if I found he got on ok. 

well done Riley:thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

I have to share this..Riley's bum looks normal!! No sign of the polyp!!

I think I will not fear the use of steroids in the future..now I will taper him off and give 1/2 tablet every other day until the course is finished..

Still no diarrhoea and he has eaten a normal (200g) of food today.

I had a bath earlier, don't have them often ( I shower daily tho ) Riley hates it when I'm in the bath he looks so worried and perches on the side of the bath looking confused as I'm covered with bubbles..his expression makes me laugh! He won't leave the side of the bath until I get out!!


----------



## Matti

Hi guys, I'm new to this thread, and it's a very long one!! My little boy has been having tummy issues for about a month now and it looks like it's pointing towards IBD (although we're still hopin this new stronger course if metronidazole will sort him out).

I'm new to the whole colitis/IBD thing and new to being a cat owner as well so I know nothing about it... The vet says we will probably need a blood test of allergies and then maybe steroids if the metronidazole doesn't sort Tom out, so I was wondering- will Tom need to be on steroids permanently? And what food do you recommend, long term? He won't eat raw (I've tried!!) and it's nt practical to boil chicken for him especially since he's on 4 small feeds a day and I'm out of the house from 8am-7pm 5 days a week!!

And as for allergies, I assume it's wheat and gluten that is likely to cause the IBD, in which case, I've had him on hypoallergenic food so I don't understand how it's happened.....

So so confused and worried


----------



## Tao2

Hi and welcome Matti,
Could you tell us a little bit more about Tom? How old is he? What tests has the vet done so far? Has he had any medications apart from the metronidazole? What exactly are his symptoms?

As regards your question about using steroids permanently: steroids can be really beneficial BUT long term use can cause diabetes. So, if Tom is a relatively young cat, it would be much better to avoid long term use. I wouldn't worry so much about short courses of them.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have to share this..Riley's bum looks normal!! No sign of the polyp!!
> 
> I think I will not fear the use of steroids in the future..now I will taper him off and give 1/2 tablet every other day until the course is finished..
> 
> Still no diarrhoea and he has eaten a normal (200g) of food today.
> 
> I had a bath earlier, don't have them often ( I shower daily tho ) Riley hates it when I'm in the bath he looks so worried and perches on the side of the bath looking confused as I'm covered with bubbles..his expression makes me laugh! He won't leave the side of the bath until I get out!!


So sorry nicola I totally missed this post .I hope the steroids have worked their magic,it would be fantastic if the nasty polyp has gone


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to this thread, and it's a very long one!! My little boy has been having tummy issues for about a month now and it looks like it's pointing towards IBD (although we're still hopin this new stronger course if metronidazole will sort him out).
> 
> I'm new to the whole colitis/IBD thing and new to being a cat owner as well so I know nothing about it... The vet says we will probably need a blood test of allergies and then maybe steroids if the metronidazole doesn't sort Tom out, so I was wondering- will Tom need to be on steroids permanently? And what food do you recommend, long term? He won't eat raw (I've tried!!) and it's nt practical to boil chicken for him especially since he's on 4 small feeds a day and I'm out of the house from 8am-7pm 5 days a week!!
> 
> *And as for allergies, I assume it's wheat and gluten that is likely to cause the IBD,* in which case, I've had him on hypoallergenic food so I don't understand how it's happened.....
> 
> So so confused and worried


Hi Matti sorry to read that your cat may be another sufferer of this horrible thing that is IBD.As Tao2 has said a little bit more info would help.
Sadly the allergies causing IBD can take many forms.It could be grains,a specific meat ie chicken/beef or similar in the food and it doesnt have to be anything new added to his diet,he could just suddenly react to an ingredient he has been eating for months


----------



## Cazzer

Matti said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to this thread, and it's a very long one!! My little boy has been having tummy issues for about a month now and it looks like it's pointing towards IBD (although we're still hopin this new stronger course if metronidazole will sort him out).
> 
> I'm new to the whole colitis/IBD thing and new to being a cat owner as well so I know nothing about it... The vet says we will probably need a blood test of allergies and then maybe steroids if the metronidazole doesn't sort Tom out, so I was wondering- will Tom need to be on steroids permanently? And what food do you recommend, long term? He won't eat raw (I've tried!!) and it's nt practical to boil chicken for him especially since he's on 4 small feeds a day and I'm out of the house from 8am-7pm 5 days a week!!
> 
> And as for allergies, I assume it's wheat and gluten that is likely to cause the IBD, in which case, I've had him on hypoallergenic food so I don't understand how it's happened.....
> 
> So so confused and worried


Sorry to hear that you could be joining the club! When you say hypoallergenic food are you referring to the JWB that you mention in the other thread. The JWB isn't actually a hypoallergenic diet in true sense as it is not a hydrolised protein. The protein that the JWB contains is just one that is not so common in cat food ie lamb, hence they say its 'naturally hypoalleregenic'. Its a bit of a marketing ploy I'm afraid by JWB. Its fine as long as your cat doesn't have an issue with lamb, or any of the other ingredients!

As the others have said it may not be grains or beef/chicken etc it could be a preservative used, colouring hence why it is so difficult to establish what the problem is


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> I have to share this..Riley's bum looks normal!! No sign of the polyp!!
> 
> I think I will not fear the use of steroids in the future..now I will taper him off and give 1/2 tablet every other day until the course is finished..
> 
> Still no diarrhoea and he has eaten a normal (200g) of food today.
> 
> I had a bath earlier, don't have them often ( I shower daily tho ) Riley hates it when I'm in the bath he looks so worried and perches on the side of the bath looking confused as I'm covered with bubbles..his expression makes me laugh! He won't leave the side of the bath until I get out!!


sorry I missed this too!!! Wonderful news!:thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to this thread, and it's a very long one!! My little boy has been having tummy issues for about a month now and it looks like it's pointing towards IBD (although we're still hopin this new stronger course if metronidazole will sort him out).
> 
> I'm new to the whole colitis/IBD thing and new to being a cat owner as well so I know nothing about it... The vet says we will probably need a blood test of allergies and then maybe steroids if the metronidazole doesn't sort Tom out, so I was wondering- will Tom need to be on steroids permanently? And what food do you recommend, long term? He won't eat raw (I've tried!!) and it's nt practical to boil chicken for him especially since he's on 4 small feeds a day and I'm out of the house from 8am-7pm 5 days a week!!
> 
> And as for allergies, I assume it's wheat and gluten that is likely to cause the IBD, in which case, I've had him on hypoallergenic food so I don't understand how it's happened.....
> 
> So so confused and worried


Riley has always responded well to metrondazole it has an anti-inflamatory agent that calms down their insides. Riley is currently on steroids and again is doing well, tho I have found with him he can't have the metrondazole mixed with the steroids together as his appetite completely went.

I have read that the blood test for allergies can be a bit vague, tho I would be very interested if you have one done in the results! As for the allergy could be anything, that's the thing with this horrible thing..the only way is to try a novel protein, get him right and then introduce new foods and see the results.

Riley's base meal is kangaroo, but I have had poor attempts with other foods as it has caused flare ups . So I'm still looking at food as I need to have 3 that I can change about for him..one day the kangaroo may react with him and then I could be in trouble!!

I think you said from earlier thread they have put him on I/d..is that the wet?? Riley had the dry first of all and it did help, so I would say keep him on that until he is settled then you can try introducing new food, but list the ingredients and their reaction!!

I presume the stool samples came back clear of worms and bacteria?? Have they done any blood tests as yet?

Bless Tom, he is so young, if it is ibd/colitis you maybe coping with this for life! But right now the more you can do to control the diarrhoea the less scaring that will happen in his tummy, so could hopefully avoid it becoming ibd..

Please keep us updated and ask any questions, this thread is to share what we are all trying to keep the flare ups to a minimum and share new food finds!!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> So sorry nicola I totally missed this post .I hope the steroids have worked their magic,it would be fantastic if the nasty polyp has gone


Hmmmmmm, polyp has made another appearance :cursing: no diarrhoea but a little blood, think I am going to have to research into getting it removed, but the problem is that my vets can't do it..it could cause him to become incontinent..

I don't see why they can't freeze it or burn it to shrink it..

Other than that kangaroo is going down well and he is so much better and being naughty again..I might try the horse again in couple weeks..still searching food


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear that the polyp has returned Nicola. what a worry Riley is i think you have got it worse than most of us due to this as well as the IBD


----------



## Matti

Hi guys, thank you for all your replies already- it really is a relief I see I'm not the only one- it's so worrying as a new mum when the vet isn't totally sure what's wrong!!

So Tom is 15 weeks old tomorrow, he's always ha soft stools but about 3 week ago I took him to the vet because there was blood and mucus. He was tested for giagardia and wormed and was given metronidazole, pro-kolin and dry I/D (Hills). 2 weeks later and it hasn't cleared up so I took him back and got a higher dose of metronidazole (0.4ml x2 for 7days) and the same other stuff as before. 

I had him on turkey and rice James Wellbeloved dry and Hi Life essentials wet- both kitten food, both no wheat and gluten. 

He's fine in himself and running around, eating drinking. I have noticed that on the metronidazole Tom has some good dry dark stools and then other lighter brown soft ones- it's never the same. 

I'm just not sure where to go from here or what to do!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Sorry to hear that the polyp has returned Nicola. what a worry Riley is i think you have got it worse than most of us due to this as well as the IBD


I will look into removal but I have to weigh it up..removal and possible in-continence v occasional small amount of blood after going to the toilet..

I think we all have a war against this..how is the kangaroo working out?


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Hi guys, thank you for all your replies already- it really is a relief I see I'm not the only one- it's so worrying as a new mum when the vet isn't totally sure what's wrong!!
> 
> So Tom is 15 weeks old tomorrow, he's always ha soft stools but about 3 week ago I took him to the vet because there was blood and mucus. He was tested for giagardia and wormed and was given metronidazole, pro-kolin and dry I/D (Hills). 2 weeks later and it hasn't cleared up so I took him back and got a higher dose of metronidazole (0.4ml x2 for 7days) and the same other stuff as before.
> 
> I had him on turkey and rice James Wellbeloved dry and Hi Life essentials wet- both kitten food, both no wheat and gluten.
> 
> He's fine in himself and running around, eating drinking. I have noticed that on the metronidazole Tom has some good dry dark stools and then other lighter brown soft ones- it's never the same.
> 
> I'm just not sure where to go from here or what to do!


You are not alone 

The hills should control the diarrhoea with the metronidazole. Another member had good results adding pumpkin purée to the food, I've not tried this myself so can't really say from experience..

Ok how is toms bum looking? Does the middle bit poke out at all? Is it sore? Has the vet checked his anal glands ie expressed them to see if any blood in them? as compacted anal glands can also cause problems.


----------



## Cazzer

the kangaroo is doing ok thanks for asking Nicola. I'm just giving him a small portion each day and there has been no dire rear. It doesn't usually take much food for Karlo to have explosive dire rear so hopefully we are onto a winner


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmmmmm, polyp *has made another appearance *:cursing: no diarrhoea but a little blood, think I am going to have to research into getting it removed, but the problem is that my vets can't do it..it could cause him to become incontinent..
> 
> I don't see why they can't freeze it or burn it to shrink it..
> 
> Other than that kangaroo is going down well and he is so much better and being naughty again..I might try the horse again in couple weeks..still searching food


Oh b*gger :cursing: I think it may be a good idea to ask your vet for a referral to a specialist.A fresh way of thinking may help,you dont have to go with an op,but knowing what is available cant hurt.
I still have that option with Meeko,my vet contacted Edinburgh Vet School after the endoscopy/biopsy results came back as inconclusive but most likely IBD.
They agree that tests so far point to it but they can do a further "coned endoscopy" which would allow them to see deeper into his intestine for a possible more conclusive result.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh b*gger :cursing: I think it may be a good idea to ask your vet for a referral to a specialist.A fresh way of thinking may help,you dont have to go with an op,but knowing what is available cant hurt.
> I still have that option with Meeko,my vet contacted Edinburgh Vet School after the endoscopy/biopsy results came back as inconclusive but most likely IBD.
> They agree that tests so far point to it but they can do a further "coned endoscopy" which would allow them to see deeper into his intestine for a possible more conclusive result.


Good idea. There is a royal vet college not that far from me, I might enquire there as to what they think, I can ask my vet for referral..I really want to get his weight stable as well..I will take him for weight check at end of the month..

How is mr m?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good idea. There is a royal vet college not that far from me, I might enquire there as to what they think, I can ask my vet for referral..I really want to get his weight stable as well..I will take him for weight check at end of the month..
> 
> How is mr m?


Mr M is...*whispers*.. doing okay.5 weeks on Sunday since he was sick last ; I have another 2 months supply of famotidine so may try stopping them in a couple of weeks just to see how he goes.At least I can restart if he is sick without having to ask the vet


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Mr M is...*whispers*.. doing okay.5 weeks on Sunday since he was sick last ; I have another 2 months supply of famotidine so may try stopping them in a couple of weeks just to see how he goes.At least I can restart if he is sick without having to ask the vet


Whoop whoop!! *whispers* so pleased for him and you


----------



## Tao2

Matti, I find that boiled chicken with some of the broth it was boiled in works well for upset tummies. Also Royal Canin sensitivity control pouches.

See how he gets on with the metronidazole. Forgive me if you have already said this but did the Giardia test come back negative?

Hope he's feeling better soon, do keep us posted.


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Matti, I find that boiled chicken with some of the broth it was boiled in works well for upset tummies. Also Royal Canin sensitivity control pouches.
> 
> See how he gets on with the metronidazole. Forgive me if you have already said this but did the Giardia test come back negative?
> 
> Hope he's feeling better soon, do keep us posted.


I noticed the boiled chicken actually made him have sloppier stools so I had to stop that  and yes the giardia test came back negative.

My main source of confusion is that even when he's on antibiotics, he'll do one normal firm stool then one really sloppy stool. I don't understand how this happens since he's not being fed anything different!!

Would you suggest, if the metronidazole doesn't work, having allergy tests done??

Also, Nicola, you said something about checking is anus to see if the middle poke out? As far as I am aware it doesn't, but as soon as I manage to fish him out from under the stairs, I'll have another look- if it is, is that a polyp?? And is it dangerous?? I have woefully inadequate knowledge about these things 

[ I really should know more since my OH has ulcerative colitis anyway- Tom must take after him!!]


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I noticed the boiled chicken actually made him have sloppier stools so I had to stop that  and yes the giardia test came back negative.
> 
> My main source of confusion is that even when he's on antibiotics, he'll do one normal firm stool then one really sloppy stool. I don't understand how this happens since he's not being fed anything different!!
> 
> Would you suggest, if the metronidazole doesn't work, having allergy tests done??
> 
> Also, Nicola, you said something about checking is anus to see if the middle poke out? As far as I am aware it doesn't, but as soon as I manage to fish him out from under the stairs, I'll have another look- if it is, is that a polyp?? And is it dangerous?? I have woefully inadequate knowledge about these things
> 
> [ I really should know more since my OH has ulcerative colitis anyway- Tom must take after him!!]


Sorry have to dash, going to a leaving dinner..I will reply when I get back..it does not mean a polyp..just if his bum is swollen could also be his anal glands..did the vet express toms??


----------



## Matti

No he hasn't!! I didn't even know they had anal glands that need to be expressed!!  I feel so woefully inadequate as Tom's mummy


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## Tao2

Matti, I've kept cats all my life and I didn't know that they had anal glands that need to be expressed until now....


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> No he hasn't!! I didn't even know they had anal glands that need to be expressed!!  I feel so woefully inadequate as Tom's mummy


A cats anal glands (scent glands) normally do not need to be "tampered with".They are normally emptied when cat passes faeces and are used to "scent mark".
Occasionally they can become impacted and require to be emptied manually :arf: not a job for the squeamish .This can often be caused by a prolonged bout of dire rear.Not something all cat slaves will come across


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## Tao2

Fingers crossed then that I can contiue to live in ignorance!!


----------



## nicolaa123

It's not all that bad to do.. my vet has done Riley's to be fair and its just getting fingers in right position and tail out the way, stop cat from moving and apply pressure and get tissue ready 

In all seriousness tho..if the bum looks bit swollen or tender ask vet to express them.. Riley has his done a number of times when he has had prolonged bouts..to be on safe side


----------



## Matti

Okay thanks, I'll look out for that! His bum has looked swollen a few times but then he's gone to the loo and it's been fine- that's normally when I find quite mucusy stools as well, so that makes sense!

But I'll definitely keep an eye out for that now you've mentioned it. Thanks guys.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Okay thanks, I'll look out for that! His bum has looked swollen a few times but then he's gone to the loo and it's been fine- that's normally when I find quite mucusy stools as well, so that makes sense!
> 
> But I'll definitely keep an eye out for that now you've mentioned it. Thanks guys.


Oh bum watch!! It's a daily thing here..it might be worth if you goto vets again to ask them to check his anal glands..

As for food if you would like, I can send some vet-concept for Tom to try..they are novel proteins..if you would like pm me your address!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> As for food if you would like, I can send some vet-concept for Tom to try..they are novel proteins..if you would like pm me your address!


Oh wow, that's really nice of you  Thanks Nicola. Yeah the I/D really isn't working, so I definitely need to try something new. He's had 5 days of metronidazole now and there's been no change, still soft, still smelly, still blood and mucus.

And now I have a bum watch of my own- not so much to check if it's sticking out, but because the last two times he's been, there's been bloody mucus hanging out, and he has this habit of going and sitting straight on a cushion after he's finished in his tray! *sigh*

I think I will book a vet appointment for friday now, just to make sure he'll get seen, and see what the vet says next. [My actual vet is back from holiday this week and he is REALLY good, so hopefully he'll have some idea of next steps]. I'll definitely mention the anal glands as well


----------



## Ianthi

Matti, I've no idea of your cat's history but what you've described above (lack of response to this food and meds) would make me think of parasites!  Has TF been ruled out?


----------



## Matti

Ianthi said:


> Matti, I've no idea of your cat's history but what you've described above (lack of response to this food and meds) would make me think of parasites!  Has TF been ruled out?


Yeah it has- they sent his stool sample off to the lab for all sorts of testing after his lack of response to the first load of meds and they all came back negative for everything. He's been wormed and de-fleaed and all up to date, so I guess that's a no to parasites!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Oh wow, that's really nice of you  Thanks Nicola. Yeah the I/D really isn't working, so I definitely need to try something new. He's had 5 days of metronidazole now and there's been no change, still soft, still smelly, still blood and mucus.
> 
> And now I have a bum watch of my own- not so much to check if it's sticking out, but because the last two times he's been, there's been bloody mucus hanging out, and he has this habit of going and sitting straight on a cushion after he's finished in his tray! *sigh*
> 
> I think I will book a vet appointment for friday now, just to make sure he'll get seen, and see what the vet says next. [My actual vet is back from holiday this week and he is REALLY good, so hopefully he'll have some idea of next steps]. I'll definitely mention the anal glands as well


No problem at all..

Does Tom scoot at all? It's where they drag their bum along the ground, or does he lick his bum or under tail excessively?

I would imagine the vet will think a course of steroids next to try and get it under control. How is his weight doing??


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> No problem at all..
> 
> Does Tom scoot at all? It's where they drag their bum along the ground, or does he lick his bum or under tail excessively?
> 
> I would imagine the vet will think a course of steroids next to try and get it under control. How is his weight doing??


I've never seen him scoot, ever, so I imagine not so much. I wouldn't say he licks his bum excessively, but if he's been a bit runny, he will do it more. I definitely don't see him doing it often enough to say it's excessive.

Well he is very small for his age, so his weight is a bit of a sore point with me... he's only around 1.2-1.3kg even though he's 15 weeks, but when I brought him home at 7 weeks, he was around 700g. The vet hasn't seemed worried about his weight once we realised he is putting it on, but since he's been on the I/D, it seems to have tapered off a bit.... he is eating all of his food, and he is much bigger/longer than before (but still so tiny for his age) so maybe it's a growth spurt thing that is making him look so small... he was the second biggest in the litter as well!


----------



## Matti

So he didn't want to play this morning, and he hasn't eaten all day so I took him straight back to the vet. Just got back home, minus one poorly kitty 

Vet is keeping him in overnight to monitor him and he's nil by mouth from 9pm, in preparation for lots of blood tests (more parasite tests including retesting for TF) stool sample, scan of his belly and an anal probe. 

I know it's nothing serious yet and he's fine (the vet his happy with his weight and general growth for such a tiny thing) but walking into the house and seeing his toys strewn around with no kitten to play with them has just made me burst into tears :cryin:


----------



## Tao2

Oh Matti, I don't know who I feel more sorry for: you with your kitten free house or Tom at the vets with the threat of the anal probe hanging over him  Actually, it's definitely Tom. Fingers crossed it will all be worth it and they will actually find something. Poor little mite. Is that him on your avatar?
Let us know what vet says when your hear.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So he didn't want to play this morning, and he hasn't eaten all day so I took him straight back to the vet. Just got back home, minus one poorly kitty
> 
> Vet is keeping him in overnight to monitor him and he's nil by mouth from 9pm, in preparation for lots of blood tests (more parasite tests including retesting for TF) stool sample, scan of his belly and an anal probe.
> 
> I know it's nothing serious yet and he's fine (the vet his happy with his weight and general growth for such a tiny thing) but walking into the house and seeing his toys strewn around with no kitten to play with them has just made me burst into tears :cryin:


Oh no poor boy..poor you..Riley had a scan and endoscopy last year, I was so worried but he was absolutely fine after. I worried about the anethestic, but he got over it very well. It's good they will do the tests on him and find out what is going on..I was going to put try not to worry, but you will as I would.

Please let us know how he gets on, they should be able to tell you about scan and any biopsies no more than a week..

Keeping everything crossed for him and you x


----------



## Tao2

7 weeks is very young to leave Mum, did he come to you with a dire rear? Sorry if you've already posted this info.
Re: weight gain, I like to see someone else who weighs their kittens, I obsessively weighed mine! What kind of weight gain would you say he is making weekly? There is a thread somewhere detailing how much they should weigh and when. I think it said they should put on about 100g per week so that would mean they would weigh approaching 2kg at 15 weeks (obviously depends on the cat) but he does seem a little light. Mind you, one of mine weighed under 600g and the other 900g when I got them at 4 months+ of age (that was pretty extreme though, little one was at deaths door).


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> 7 weeks is very young to leave Mum, did he come to you with a dire rear? Sorry if you've already posted this info.
> Re: weight gain, I like to see someone else who weighs their kittens, I obsessively weighed mine! What kind of weight gain would you say he is making weekly? There is a thread somewhere detailing how much they should weigh and when. I think it said they should put on about 100g per week so that would mean they would weigh approaching 2kg at 15 weeks (obviously depends on the cat) but he does seem a little light. Mind you, one of mine weighed under 600g and the other 900g when I got them at 4 months+ of age (that was pretty extreme though, little one was at deaths door).


I know 7 weeks is young, but the lady who had them also had a dog, which, while fine with the adult cats (including mum), was unfortunately rather over-vigorous with playing with the kittens  she kept them in separate rooms with the door shut but her daughter left the door open and 2 of the kittens got out and were unfortunately found dead  so she had the dog removed but had to let the kittens go earlier than she would have liked 

And no he didn't come to us with dire rear, but it has got progressively worse as he got older.

I weigh Tom every couple of days. He's 1.3kg now, was 700g when we got him and the vet is happy with his growth and weight gain.

And yes, that's him on my avatar! Isn't he a beauty?!  here's a photo of him pretending to be an Egyptian while asleep on my lap last night!


----------



## Tao2

He is absolutely gorgeous! But so sad about his 2 siblings, I could never forgive the dog that did that. He was lucky!!


----------



## nicolaa123

He is beautiful..

What was he eating before you got him?


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley has had diarrhoea tonight  could be coming off the steroids, could be me over feeding due to him not eating last week..

I'm starting to think its not a food allergy thing, more like a food rejection thing! I will see how he is tomorrow, as still could be coming off the steroids etc..

I'm starting to think tho maybe he does need the full biopsies op or a specialist referral to try and get this under control.. What I need to do is find a vet that specifically specialises in the stomach..how would I find one? Any ideas?


----------



## Matti

Oh no!! Poor Riley  I wish I could help you with some advice but it's me relying on you most of the time!!!  hopefully it's just due to coming off the steroids and Riley will perk up tomorrow. I'm going to pick Tom up tomorrow so I can ask my vet if he knows anyone?? We're in the same sort of area so he might know someone you could get to.


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> He is beautiful..
> 
> What was he eating before you got him?


Thanks 

He was on hilife natures essentials kitten wet sachets and Purely kitten dry (pets at home) when we got home and I kept him on the purely for a while before changing him to James Wellbeloved- I kept him on the wet. I realised his bum was very smelly on the Purely so when I changed it, his smelly bum got better and less squishy so I figured it was just the food. Mentioned it to the vet and he agrees initially and told me to keep an eye out- it was about 4-5 weeks ago that the blood and mucus started and he got really soft stools so took him straight back to the vet.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Oh no!! Poor Riley  I wish I could help you with some advice but it's me relying on you most of the time!!!  hopefully it's just due to coming off the steroids and Riley will perk up tomorrow. I'm going to pick Tom up tomorrow so I can ask my vet if he knows anyone?? We're in the same sort of area so he might know someone you could get to.


Thanks that would be great..my vet is good, but I'm thinking now if I could find a vet who specialises it may help him, as I'm really not convinced its food related as he seems to react to every food he has had!

He is fine, apart from bit grumpy about being cleaned up!!

What time are you picking up Tom?


----------



## Tao2

Sorry Riley off colour again. I don't know of any IBD specialists but if anyone out there does know of any please do post details. 

Mittens is still doing really well, no sickness or diarrhoea since Xmas (except for 2 hairballs). I'm not a morning person at the best of times but starting your day with a foot in cold slimy cat sick really does nothing to raise ones spirits. Now the house is free of vomit booby traps, I'm verging on jolly (OK, jolly might be a wild exaggeration but you get my drift)

She's still not putting on any weight though, that's my only worry now, she weighs 2.9kg and is distinctly bony, I think she should be 500g or so heavier. Fat boy on the other hand has been on a so-called diet since Xmas but to no avail....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Thanks
> 
> He was on hilife natures essentials kitten wet sachets and Purely kitten dry (pets at home) when we got home and I kept him on the purely for a while before changing him to James Wellbeloved- I kept him on the wet. I realised his bum was very smelly on the Purely so when I changed it, his smelly bum got better and less squishy so I figured it was just the food. Mentioned it to the vet and he agrees initially and told me to keep an eye out- it was about 4-5 weeks ago that the blood and mucus started and he got really soft stools so took him straight back to the vet.


Poor little boy, he is so young..food wise what he was on was ok..I think it's good they will do a scan etc so they can see what is happening on the inside..

He looks like a fluffy Riley!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Sorry Riley off colour again. I don't know of any IBD specialists but if anyone out there does know of any please do post details.
> 
> Mittens is still doing really well, no sickness or diarrhoea since Xmas (except for 2 hairballs). I'm not a morning person at the best of times but starting your day with a foot in cold slimy cat sick really does nothing to raise ones spirits. Now the house is free of vomit booby traps, I'm verging on jolly (OK, jolly might be a wild exaggeration but you get my drift)
> 
> She's still not putting on any weight though, that's my only worry now, she weighs 2.9kg and is distinctly bony, I think she should be 500g or so heavier. Fat boy on the other hand has been on a so-called diet since Xmas but to no avail....


Pleased to hear about mittens..I know how you feel about the "jolly" feeling!!

2.9 is low bless her..I hope she starts to put on some of fat boy's weight!!


----------



## Cloudygirl

My Boo has a poorly bum. It's my fault. i've got careless with what I feed Bobby my other cat. Boo normally barely touches regular cat food he likes biscuits so i didn't think he'd eat Bobby's food but the other night I saw him eating a load of Bobby's meat and then he's had two really nasty bouts of diarrhoea one with a bit of blood in it (looked like red blood but quite difficult to tell because the diarrhoea was so liquid) so I took up all his food and put him on poached white fish yesterday. Today he's had one lot of semi solid poop no blood so hopefully I've calmed it down. Any more blood though and we will have to go to the vet for an injection and maybe look into his food intolerences in a bit more detail.  

Sorry Bobby no more butchers or cheap pouches with loads of jelly he is going to just have to learn to eat pate as that doesn't upset Boo's tum.

I feel mega guilty I've already accidentally whacked him in the face this week as well.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley has had diarrhoea tonight  could be coming off the steroids, could be me over feeding due to him not eating last week..
> 
> I'm starting to think its not a food allergy thing, more like a food rejection thing! I will see how he is tomorrow, as still could be coming off the steroids etc..
> 
> I'm starting to think tho maybe he does need the full biopsies op or a specialist referral to try and get this under control.. What I need to do is find a vet that specifically specialises in the stomach..how would I find one? Any ideas?


Sorry to read that Riley has had "dire rear" again  I have been avoiding this thread for the last couple of days as Meeko has been having a few "problems" I knew as soon as I said he had been okay for so long,it would come back to bite me.He has been off his food and a bit miserable,but hope he is just having a couple of "off days"
The only advice I can give you re a "specialist" is to ask your vet for a referral ,probably to a vet hospital.As for the full thickness biopsies unless there is a doubt that there may be a cause other than IBD it is unlikely to help,at least that is my understanding of it,but I may be wrong.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> My Boo has a poorly bum. It's my fault. i've got careless with what I feed Bobby my other cat. Boo normally barely touches regular cat food he likes biscuits so i didn't think he'd eat Bobby's food but the other night I saw him eating a load of Bobby's meat and then he's had two really nasty bouts of diarrhoea one with a bit of blood in it (looked like red blood but quite difficult to tell because the diarrhoea was so liquid) so I took up all his food and put him on poached white fish yesterday. Today he's had one lot of semi solid poop no blood so hopefully I've calmed it down. Any more blood though and we will have to go to the vet for an injection and maybe look into his food intolerences in a bit more detail.
> 
> Sorry Bobby no more butchers or cheap pouches with loads of jelly he is going to just have to learn to eat pate as that doesn't upset Boo's tum.
> 
> I feel mega guilty I've already accidentally whacked him in the face this week as well.


Sorry to hear about boo, hopefully he will now be back on track..what does boo eat?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Riley has had "dire rear" again  I have been avoiding this thread for the last couple of days as Meeko has been having a few "problems" I knew as soon as I said he had been okay for so long,it would come back to bite me.He has been off his food and a bit miserable,but hope he is just having a couple of "off days"
> The only advice I can give you re a "specialist" is to ask your vet for a referral ,probably to a vet hospital.As for the full thickness biopsies unless there is a doubt that there may be a cause other than IBD it is unlikely to help,at least that is my understanding of it,but I may be wrong.


I really do hope it's just a couple of off days..

You are right about the biopsies, they have tested and not found anything else..I'm just worried now its not food related as I have no idea where to even begin with that!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Poor little boy, he is so young..food wise what he was on was ok..I think it's good they will do a scan etc so they can see what is happening on the inside..
> 
> He looks like a fluffy Riley!!


He does look like a fluffy Riley!!!  I'm picking Tom up tomorrow night after work- around 6.30-7pm. Should get a call between 2-4pm to say he's okay, fingers crossed!

And I'm so sorry about Boo and Meeko and everyone else  poor fur-babies. I wish there was a magic wand sometimes..... :001_unsure:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I really do hope it's just a couple of off days..
> 
> You are right about the biopsies, they have tested and not found anything else..I'm just worried now its not food related as I have no idea where to even begin with that!


I have the same thoughts so I know where you are coming from.
Logic says that it *should* make a difference if you change the diet.Okay i know Meeko is making that difficult but others have more success like you with Riley ,yet there still seems to be a problem 
Could it be that once damaged ,the tissue doesnt repair its self for a long time,giving the impression that there is still a reaction.I,like you am very confused by the whole bl**dy thing.


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> He does look like a fluffy Riley!!!  I'm picking Tom up tomorrow night after work- around 6.30-7pm. Should get a call between 2-4pm to say he's okay, fingers crossed!
> 
> And I'm so sorry about Boo and Meeko and everyone else  poor fur-babies. I wish there was a magic wand sometimes..... :001_unsure:


Poor Tom ,I hope he is feeling a lot better,he is just a little lad


----------



## Cloudygirl

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear about boo, hopefully he will now be back on track..what does boo eat?


Acana, fish4cats or orijen but not the chicken flavours. He can eat animonda carny without having a bad bum and he was ok on bozita and grau but he barely touches it because he doesn't like wet food. i give them raw meat a couple of times a week as well just so he eats something that isn't dried food and occasionally they get bits of cooked meat.

Bobby however is a picky sod and has recently gone off anything that isn't jelly or gravy and as Boo doesn't really eat the wet I've been giving him some cheap supermarket pouches and butchers and it must be the jelly in that which has upset Boo's bum.

I had a lot of trouble with his tum when he first came to me but he hadn't had a really bad bout of diarrhoea since August 11


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I have the same thoughts so I know where you are coming from.
> Logic says that it *should* make a difference if you change the diet.Okay i know Meeko is making that difficult but others have more success like you with Riley ,yet there still seems to be a problem
> Could it be that once damaged ,the tissue doesnt repair its self for a long time,giving the impression that there is still a reaction.I,like you am very confused by the whole bl**dy thing.


I guess I could try pro-biotics again, but he was so sick last time, it has put me off..you make sense on the damaged tissue thing..but if so where do we go from there


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> My Boo has a poorly bum. It's my fault. i've got careless with what I feed Bobby my other cat. Boo normally barely touches regular cat food he likes biscuits so i didn't think he'd eat Bobby's food but the other night I saw him eating a load of Bobby's meat and then he's had two really nasty bouts of diarrhoea one with a bit of blood in it (looked like red blood but quite difficult to tell because the diarrhoea was so liquid) so I took up all his food and put him on poached white fish yesterday. Today he's had one lot of semi solid poop no blood so hopefully I've calmed it down. Any more blood though and we will have to go to the vet for an injection and maybe look into his food intolerences in a bit more detail.
> 
> Sorry Bobby no more butchers or cheap pouches with loads of jelly he is going to just have to learn to eat pate as that doesn't upset Boo's tum.
> 
> I feel mega guilty I've already accidentally whacked him in the face this week as well.


Sorry to read that Boo has had a run in with the "dire rear"  Sometimes I think you need eyes in the back of your head just to keep up with the sneeky sods


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Acana, fish4cats or orijen but not the chicken flavours. He can eat animonda carny without having a bad bum and he was ok on bozita and grau but he barely touches it because he doesn't like wet food. i give them raw meat a couple of times a week as well just so he eats something that isn't dried food and occasionally they get bits of cooked meat.
> 
> Bobby however is a picky sod and has recently gone off anything that isn't jelly or gravy and as Boo doesn't really eat the wet I've been giving him some cheap supermarket pouches and butchers and it must be the jelly in that which has upset Boo's bum.
> 
> I had a lot of trouble with his tum when he first came to me but he hadn't had a really bad bout of diarrhoea since August 11


What you are experiencing is the main reason I have not got another cat as food issue would be a nightmare!!

Although, now I'm wondering if it is a food thing with mine


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Boo has had a run in with the "dire rear"  Sometimes I think you need eyes in the back of your head just to keep up with the *sneeky sods*


Love that the "sneeky sods"


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Boo has had a run in with the "dire rear"  Sometimes I think you need eyes in the back of your head just to keep up with the sneeky sods


They are a nightmare sometimes. Bobby had a reaction to his booster jab and got what I think were mild flu symptoms and his eye (although I'm still wiping them both daily just in case to make sure it stays clean) only properly cleared up at the start of last week. Now I have Boo's bum and I'm away this weekend 

At least they think poached fish is a treat and it does seem to calm Boo's tum. I'll just have to keep it him on it for a few days then gradually add in his biscuits. Sorry am having trouble typing have cat sat on my fingers right now


----------



## Tao2

I thought that it did take a while for the gut to calm down and repair after a flair up. It does make you wonder if there is something else though doesn't it. There are lots of candidates that I have wondered about:
If they go outside there are so many things: prey, other food, grass etc.
Inside: Cleaning agents, cats meds, toothpaste, stolen food, houseplants.

Mine have not been out for some months, so when I congratulate myself about sorting out Mittens' diet it is with the thought in the back of my mind that her not being sick has also coincided with her being indoors all the time. I always kept a beady eye on her when she was in the garden though.

I also have wondered if it is a sensitivity to her own hair as she seems to be more poorly when she has hairballs....or is that the hairballs irritate because she is poorly? AGHHHH!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> They are a nightmare sometimes. Bobby had a reaction to his booster jab and got what I think were mild flu symptoms and his eye (although I'm still wiping them both daily just in case to make sure it stays clean) only properly cleared up at the start of last week. Now I have Boo's bum and I'm away this weekend
> 
> At least they think poached fish is a treat and it does seem to calm Boo's tum. I'll just have to keep it him on it for a few days then gradually add in his biscuits. Sorry am having trouble typing have cat sat on my fingers right now


I have been in pain for last four days as Riley wants to sleep on my arm! I have to lay in such an awkward position to accommodate..the things we do 

I hope boo's bum clears up soon..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I guess I could try pro-biotics again, but he was so sick last time, it has put me off..you make sense on the damaged tissue thing..but if so where do we go from there


Have you tried this...........Protexin ProKolin Enterogenic Powder - From £24.91
It was recommended by hobbs for Meeko,but he doesnt have "dire rear" so I havnt tried it yet.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I thought that it did take a while for the gut to calm down and repair after a flair up. It does make you wonder if there is something else though doesn't it. There are lots of candidates that I have wondered about:
> If they go outside there are so many things: prey, other food, grass etc.
> Inside: Cleaning agents, cats meds, toothpaste, stolen food, houseplants.
> 
> Mine have not been out for some months, so when I congratulate myself about sorting out Mittens' diet it is with the thought in the back of my mind that her not being sick has also coincided with her being indoors all the time. I always kept a beady eye on her when she was in the garden though.
> 
> I also have wondered if it is a sensitivity to her own hair as she seems to be more poorly when she has hairballs....or is that the hairballs irritate because she is poorly? AGHHHH!


If Riley did not get so stressed I would keep him in all the time! But he cries and cries to go out and gets so worked up..we compromise on a couple hours in evening and during day if I'm home!

I try and keep all my food out of his reach and only clean when he is safely out the way!

It's so frustrating!!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Have you tried this...........Protexin ProKolin Enterogenic Powder - From £24.91
> It was recommended by hobbs for Meeko,but he doesnt have "dire rear" so I havnt tried it yet.


He had the paste..made him sick, but not tried the powder..


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Have you tried this...........Protexin ProKolin Enterogenic Powder - From £24.91
> It was recommended by hobbs for Meeko,but he doesnt have "dire rear" so I havnt tried it yet.


I've had that to try from the vet previously and diarsanyl. They seemed to prefer the diarsanyl but I'm not sure it actually did anything.

I know Boo's troubles started with me because he had both giardia and roundworm. Think he must have had them before he came to me because he's always been an indoor cat. It took quite a while to diagnose and the vet then said that he was having issues with food because his system would have been very irritated. Poor boy. I had never seen anything like the round worm he passed. If it hadn't have been in his litter tray I wouldn't have believed it was a cat worm because it was so huge. He's gradually got less sensitive to food over time and was quite skinny but he's a fatty now. He had gained about 1kg within weeks of him passing the worm. Hopefully this is just a minor set back and hasn't set off the tum again.


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> I thought that it did take a while for the gut to calm down and repair after a flair up. It does make you wonder if there is something else though doesn't it.


I know cats aren't humans, but the OH has ulcerative colitis so I know from him that when he has a massive flair up, he's on steroids for a while and then has to be very careful with food for a good while before his stomach calms down and stops giving him problems. Maybe it's a similar thing with cats? Also, I know with humans that it isn't always food that causes it... It can be stress related, or even if the OH is a little run down with something else, it can flair up... So if kitties are similar, anything making them feel a little under the weather could make it worse...

Just musing out loud....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I know cats aren't humans, but the OH has ulcerative colitis so I know from him that when he has a massive flair up, he's on steroids for a while and then has to be very careful with food for a good while before his stomach calms down and stops giving him problems. Maybe it's a similar thing with cats? Also, I know with humans that it isn't always food that causes it... It can be stress related, or even if the OH is a little run down with something else, it can flair up... So if kitties are similar, anything making them feel a little under the weather could make it worse...
> 
> Just musing out loud....


It makes sense!!


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> They are a nightmare sometimes. Bobby had a reaction to his booster jab and got what I think were mild flu symptoms and his eye (although I'm still wiping them both daily just in case to make sure it stays clean) only properly cleared up at the start of last week. Now I have Boo's bum and I'm away this weekend
> 
> At least they think poached fish is a treat and it does seem to calm Boo's tum. I'll just have to keep it him on it for a few days then gradually add in his biscuits. Sorry am having trouble typing have cat sat on my fingers right now


Oddly enough Meeko had a very bad reaction to his booster,he was not well at all.This was before he started to have the problems he now has 
For that reason I have decided to have him vaccinated on the "3 year" regime.



Tao2 said:


> I thought that it did take a while for the gut to calm down and repair after a flair up. It does make you wonder if there is something else though doesn't it. There are lots of candidates that I have wondered about:
> If they go outside there are so many things: prey, other food, grass etc.
> Inside: Cleaning agents, cats meds, toothpaste, stolen food, houseplants.
> 
> Mine have not been out for some months, so when I congratulate myself about sorting out Mittens' diet it is with the thought in the back of my mind that her not being sick has also coincided with her being indoors all the time. I always kept a beady eye on her when she was in the garden though.
> 
> I also have wondered if it is a sensitivity to her own hair as she seems to be more poorly when she has hairballs....or is that the hairballs irritate because she is poorly? AGHHHH!


Meeko is and always has been an indoor cat,doesnt "eat" random stuff,no plants,so not sure what if not "food" he is reacting to.
I agree ,after a "flare up" it may take a while to settle,but Meeko has never been "settled" unless on famotidine


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He had the paste..made him sick, but not tried the powder..


I think,but not certain,that the powder is a different thing to the paste.More like soothing treatment,where as the paste has a "binding" agent,


----------



## Tao2

Cloudygirl said:


> I've had that to try from the vet previously and diarsanyl. They seemed to prefer the diarsanyl but I'm not sure it actually did anything.
> 
> I know Boo's troubles started with me because he had both giardia and roundworm. Think he must have had them before he came to me because he's always been an indoor cat. It took quite a while to diagnose and the vet then said that he was having issues with food because his system would have been very irritated. Poor boy. I had never seen anything like the round worm he passed. If it hadn't have been in his litter tray I wouldn't have believed it was a cat worm because it was so huge. He's gradually got less sensitive to food over time and was quite skinny but he's a fatty now. He had gained about 1kg within weeks of him passing the worm. Hopefully this is just a minor set back and hasn't set off the tum again.


You're quite right, roundworms can be a bit of a shocker!


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> Oddly enough Meeko had a very bad reaction to his booster,he was not well at all.This was before he started to have the problems he now has
> For that reason I have decided to have him vaccinated on the "3 year" regime.
> 
> Meeko is and always has been an indoor cat,doesnt "eat" random stuff,no plants,so not sure what if not "food" he is reacting to.
> I agree ,after a "flare up" it may take a while to settle,but Meeko has never been "settled" unless on famotidine


Interesting, because although Mittens had problems when I got her including a heavy parasite burden, things did initally seem to be settling down, until she had her vaccs and went to the cattery for the first time, then all hell broke loose. Never was sure if it was vaccs, infection from cattery or stress from going to cattery....but something kicked it all off big style. Never been vaccinated since or been back to the cattery. Will re-vacc in a couple of months so will let you know how she goes.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think,but not certain,that the powder is a different thing to the paste.More like soothing treatment,where as the paste has a "binding" agent,


I will get some and try it..just need to hide it well  he does not like add ons to his food, if they are meds! Silly question does it taste of anything..? Not that I expect you to have sampled it


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I will get some and try it..just need to hide it well  he does not like add ons to his food, if they are meds! Silly question does it taste of anything..? Not that I expect you to have sampled it


You are correct I havnt tried it.I'm told (  ) it doesnt have a "taste" but I cant/wont vouch for that  Meeko can smell add-ons from a mile away


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Interesting, because although Mittens had problems when I got her including a heavy parasite burden, things did initally seem to be settling down, until she had her vaccs and went to the cattery for the first time, then all hell broke loose. Never was sure if it was vaccs, infection from cattery or stress from going to cattery....but something kicked it all off big style. Never been vaccinated since or been back to the cattery. Will re-vacc in a couple of months so will let you know how she goes.


Maybe it was a mix of all three.. a vaccine is essentially a small amount of the thing you're vaccinating against, so maybe Mittens body was fighting that so was a bit run-down, plus going into the cattery might have made her stressed since it's an unfamiliar place.... hence causing a flare up.... anxiety in humans can often trigger stomach and gut problems, so maybe it's a similar case here. And then it's catch 22 I guess, because if Mittens is feeling poorly and stressed it could be showing in worse guts etc.

I'm working off my "run down bodies can flare up" human theory here obviously, but I don't really have anything better to go on!! In which case, it's just rest, relaxation, good food, tlc and time that should help Mittens perk up again, and then things should be hunky dory.


----------



## Matti

Can I just ask, have everyone's pet insurance premiums gone up alot since their kitties have been treated?

My insurance had been in place about 1 week when I had to take Tom in and he's been in so many times and for so much! Don't get me wrong, I don't care how much it costs, I'll pay it to make sure he's all covered (which is why I chose the Petplan for life cover), but I am curious to see how much it could potentially go up by....

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post, but since some of you have had the same treatments or even more treatments as Tom, you guys would be able to give me the more accurate idea...


----------



## Matti

Yet another post by me (it's a slow work day)...

The vet just called to say Tom is awake! Huzzah!! 

No FelV or FIV, stools have been sent off for more tests, bloods have gone off, and the scans showed a very very inflamed top of colon  Apparently, it was a lot worse than expected, since it wouldn't normally show up on an x-ray the way it has, but the vet has assured me it isn't life threatening.

Anyway, I can pick my baby up tonight, and he'll have some more meds made up while we wait for the bloods to come back. The vet suggested that at this point, it can be difficult to test for allergies by trying him on only one type of food etc, as he is so young, the results arent as accurate as the smallest thing could set him off at the moment. 

So it's a wait and see, and then potentially more tests, then some steroids if it doesn't clear up (which the vet mentioned might make him worse?!)

I can't wait to get him home for cuddles!!  Just hoping the other tests come back negative if they are very serious!


----------



## Cloudygirl

we are off to the vet on friday morning. 

He's had another diarrhoea poop while I was out at work. No blood thank goodness. i have grossed myself out by having a really good look through it. Bleugh. 

Can't take him tomorrow have a crisis on at work but thank goodness I have friday off. he is running round like a loon still but a bit weird like he has a sore bum so is walking funny and he hissed at his brother who did to be fair deserve it but it's not normal behaviour. 

If he's back to 100% solid poops by fri morning I might cancel it but at least he is booked in 

Also he's due a flea treatment this week but I haven't given it him because of his poorly tum. Do you think I'm best to wait until i've spoken to the vet. I think they need it even though they are indoor because I was with my friends cat who has fleas and now Bobby other cat is scratching a fair bit although i can't see any on him and I haven't been bitten. 

I explained the situation to the receptionist and she didn't say to take im off the poached fish so I'll just carry on giving them fish for a few days  

Glad Tom is awake and you get cuddles!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Yet another post by me (it's a slow work day)...
> 
> The vet just called to say Tom is awake! Huzzah!!
> 
> No FelV or FIV, stools have been sent off for more tests, bloods have gone off, and the scans showed a very very inflamed top of colon  Apparently, it was a lot worse than expected, since it wouldn't normally show up on an x-ray the way it has, but the vet has assured me it isn't life threatening.
> 
> Anyway, I can pick my baby up tonight, and he'll have some more meds made up while we wait for the bloods to come back. The vet suggested that at this point, it can be difficult to test for allergies by trying him on only one type of food etc, as he is so young, the results arent as accurate as the smallest thing could set him off at the moment.
> 
> So it's a wait and see, and then potentially more tests, then some steroids if it doesn't clear up (which the vet mentioned might make him worse?!)
> 
> I can't wait to get him home for cuddles!!  Just hoping the other tests come back negative if they are very serious!


Pleased he is ok and can come home, did they say what the endeoscopy picked up, did they take any biopsies? Have they given an indication as to what it could be? What food are they suggesting for you to try him on, if they don't think an exclusion diet would work? What meds have they given him? Have they said what they are testing for in the bloods?

Sorry lots of questions..

Am pleased he is coming home, it's horrible when they are not at home..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> we are off to the vet on friday morning.
> 
> He's had another diarrhoea poop while I was out at work. No blood thank goodness. i have grossed myself out by having a really good look through it. Bleugh.
> 
> Can't take him tomorrow have a crisis on at work but thank goodness I have friday off. he is running round like a loon still but a bit weird like he has a sore bum so is walking funny and he hissed at his brother who did to be fair deserve it but it's not normal behaviour.
> 
> If he's back to 100% solid poops by fri morning I might cancel it but at least he is booked in
> 
> Also he's due a flea treatment this week but I haven't given it him because of his poorly tum. Do you think I'm best to wait until i've spoken to the vet. I think they need it even though they are indoor because I was with my friends cat who has fleas and now Bobby other cat is scratching a fair bit although i can't see any on him and I haven't been bitten.
> 
> I explained the situation to the receptionist and she didn't say to take im off the poached fish so I'll just carry on giving them fish for a few days
> 
> Glad Tom is awake and you get cuddles!!


Sorry to hear you might be off to the vets..Riley has not been as yet today, have been trying to keep him in..I have just popped out, so hopefully tonight or tomorrow I will see a deposit in the tray!!

As for fleas, think good idea to treat as the runny bum could be due to parasites..


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Can I just ask, have everyone's pet insurance premiums gone up alot since their kitties have been treated?
> 
> My insurance had been in place about 1 week when I had to take Tom in and he's been in so many times and for so much! Don't get me wrong, I don't care how much it costs, I'll pay it to make sure he's all covered (which is why I chose the Petplan for life cover), but I am curious to see how much it could potentially go up by....
> 
> Sorry if this is the wrong place to post, but since some of you have had the same treatments or even more treatments as Tom, you guys would be able to give me the more accurate idea...


It went up by £6 per month after the first time I claimed and that was only a small claim..I dread to think what it will go up to this time..I should get the renewal in April


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> we are off to the vet on friday morning.
> 
> He's had another diarrhoea poop while I was out at work. No blood thank goodness. i have grossed myself out by having a really good look through it. Bleugh.
> 
> Can't take him tomorrow have a crisis on at work but thank goodness I have friday off. he is running round like a loon still but a bit weird like he has a sore bum so is walking funny and he hissed at his brother who did to be fair deserve it but it's not normal behaviour.
> 
> If he's back to 100% solid poops by fri morning I might cancel it but at least he is booked in
> 
> Also he's due a flea treatment this week but I haven't given it him because of his poorly tum. Do you think I'm best to wait until i've spoken to the vet. I think they need it even though they are indoor because I was with my friends cat who has fleas and now Bobby other cat is scratching a fair bit although i can't see any on him and I haven't been bitten.
> 
> I explained the situation to the receptionist and she didn't say to take im off the poached fish so I'll just carry on giving them fish for a few days
> 
> Glad Tom is awake and you get cuddles!!


Oh no!!! I hope he settles today...  I hate how just when we think everything is fine, they go and drop a sloppy stool  Poor thing, I hope his bum is okay!

Do keep us posted, and let me know about the flea treatment thing- Tom is due his on monday and I'm not sure whether it will make him worse as well....


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased he is ok and can come home, did they say what the endeoscopy picked up, did they take any biopsies? Have they given an indication as to what it could be? What food are they suggesting for you to try him on, if they don't think an exclusion diet would work? What meds have they given him? Have they said what they are testing for in the bloods?
> 
> Sorry lots of questions..
> 
> Am pleased he is coming home, it's horrible when they are not at home..


Didn't take any biopsies as it was waaaaaay too inflamed to even risk it at present! They want it to calm down slightly before trying again :S No inidication as to what it could be, the vet is erring on the side of caution and waiting for all results before he says anything I think. He's staying on the I/D at present until all the results are back, and he's been given some paste I think beginning with D and some penicillin-based tablets beginning with C (I wrote it down and I can't remember where I wrote it- I was just so happy to have him home that I lost my head slightly!) ... I will have a look as soon as I get in let you know.

They are testing for everything in the bloods including TF and lots of different parasites, and the stools have been sent off for further testing. Basically the vet said they are testing for everything possible and once he has the results in he will sit down and go through each one with me, tell me what the test was and the result (I was getting panicky so I think he didn't want to worry me). As soon as I know, I will let you guys know! He also sent me home with a full letter setting out what they've done and what the results are so far, so when I get home I can summarise that as well.

Poor baby has had all of his belly and his right side shaved! He looks ridiculous with his massive bald patch!


----------



## nicolaa123

I remember rileys shaved look!!


----------



## nicolaa123

I will be very interested as we are in same boats with back end problems. Pleased to report no diarrhoea today!!


----------



## Cazzer

good news every where it seems 

Matti re the insurance I claimed nearly £5,000 for karlo in his 1st year and his premiums only went up by pound the following year. It makes no difference if you claim or not with petplan. I currently pay about £25 per month for him and his sister and they are three years old in August.


----------



## Matti

Right am home, have had my valentines snuggles with my baby and I can say that the paste he is on is Diarsanyl ( which he hates the taste of, so much for it being palatable) and he's on half a tablet of clavaseptin twice a day for 5 days. 

I can also report that today I have cleared up two dark solid poos, for practically the first time since I've had him! YAY!!!!


----------



## buffie

Just catching up with all that has been happening,
Matti Meeko's insurance (pet plan)increased by under £1 a month last year and that was after over £1,000 in claims.
I know what you mean about a bald cat Meeko had the same bald belly and right up one side and a small bald circle over the kidney on his other side  It took ages to grow in and change colour back to his original fur colour.Good news on the poop front.

Cloudygirl sorry to read you might off to the vets tomorrow,hope the "dire rear" has cleared up and you dont have to.


----------



## buffie

Nicola good news that Riley has no "dire rear" ,how is his appetite ?


----------



## Cloudygirl

We are on to formed but slightly soft poops now. SO right direction. No blood but slightly weird colour (pale) and smells still plus sore bum so I think we will go to the vets to see what he says. 

Definitely better though but they are driving me crazy. It appears 7 fish yesterday between 2 cats wasn't enough I'm getting whacked in the face constantly.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Right am home, have had my valentines snuggles with my baby and I can say that the paste he is on is Diarsanyl ( which he hates the taste of, so much for it being palatable) and he's on half a tablet of clavaseptin twice a day for 5 days.
> 
> I can also report that today I have cleared up two dark solid poos, for practically the first time since I've had him! YAY!!!!


I will have a look for the meds, am babysitting at the moment and trying to create a website :001_unsure: which is doing my head in!!!!

Good news on the poo


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola good news that Riley has no "dire rear" ,how is his appetite ?


His appetite is normal and I'm not trying to over feed him 

All meds are stopped now so we will see how he goes now, hopefully got it under control, but I won't hold my breath!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> We are on to formed but slightly soft poops now. SO right direction. No blood but slightly weird colour (pale) and smells still plus sore bum so I think we will go to the vets to see what he says.
> 
> Definitely better though but they are driving me crazy. It appears 7 fish yesterday between 2 cats wasn't enough I'm getting whacked in the face constantly.


Think best as very pale poos would worry me to be honest..hope all goes well, let us know how you get on..


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> We are on to formed but slightly soft poops now. SO right direction. No blood but slightly weird colour (pale) and smells still plus sore bum so I think we will go to the vets to see what he says.
> 
> Definitely better though but they are driving me crazy. It appears 7 fish yesterday between 2 cats wasn't enough I'm getting whacked in the face constantly.


Definitely good that they are formed, but I agree with Nicola, the colour would worry me- its one of the first things the vet always asks me, whether they are the colour of mustard...


----------



## Cloudygirl

they are just paler than normal not like an incredibly weird colour not to worry anyone. Like light brown rather than medium brown.

I think he's on the right track he's purring at me right now looking very cute he doesn't look like emergency vet material does he










but he is going tomorrow


----------



## Matti

So cute!!! They never look poorly do they??? Tom decided to show off his baldy spot tonight (well part of it)....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So cute!!! They never look poorly do they??? Tom decided to show off his baldy spot tonight (well part of it)....


Oh bless him, he is so sweet..


----------



## Cloudygirl

cute little man

well we are back from the vet. Vet thinks it's just an acute reaction to that food so don't feed it again. 

His temp was on the high end of normal but high so I think that has come down as his ears were hot yesterday

So he's had 2 injections dexadreson and synulox nad he has kesium tablets to take for 5 days. Vet thinks he will pick up quickly. 

Carry on with white fish until at least after the weekend he said. 

His poo is getting darker by the way sorry for the gross update


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> cute little man
> 
> well we are back from the vet. Vet thinks it's just an acute reaction to that food so don't feed it again.
> 
> His temp was on the high end of normal but high so I think that has come down as his ears were hot yesterday
> 
> So he's had 2 injections dexadreson and synulox nad he has kesium tablets to take for 5 days. Vet thinks he will pick up quickly.
> 
> Carry on with white fish until at least after the weekend he said.
> 
> His poo is getting darker by the way sorry for the gross update


Thanks for the update good to read that it isnt anything nasty 
They really know how to worry us


----------



## Cloudygirl

they like to cost us a fortune as well!!!

He's still sulking about going to the v.e.t.


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> they like to cost us a fortune as well!!!
> 
> He's still sulking about going to the v.e.t.


Dont they just  ,I am so glad Meeko is insured  but didnt expect to need it so early in his life


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> Dont they just  ,I am so glad Meeko is insured  but didnt expect to need it so early in his life


I know the feeling!!!!

And Cloudygirl, glad he's perking up and the poos are getting better!!  keep up the good work!!

As for Tom, after to good hard dark stools yesterday, I got a lovely tan brown sloppy one this morning- cheers!! More worried about his crying and scratching at his new litter tray though- last thing I need is him to have a UTI on top of everything else!! :S


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> cute little man
> 
> well we are back from the vet. Vet thinks it's just an acute reaction to that food so don't feed it again.
> 
> His temp was on the high end of normal but high so I think that has come down as his ears were hot yesterday
> 
> So he's had 2 injections dexadreson and synulox nad he has kesium tablets to take for 5 days. Vet thinks he will pick up quickly.
> 
> Carry on with white fish until at least after the weekend he said.
> 
> His poo is getting darker by the way sorry for the gross update


I'm used to affairs of the bum, so won't gross me out 

Pleased he is picking up..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Dont they just  ,I am so glad Meeko is insured  but didnt expect to need it so early in his life


How is mr m now?


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I know the feeling!!!!
> 
> And Cloudygirl, glad he's perking up and the poos are getting better!!  keep up the good work!!
> 
> As for Tom, after to good hard dark stools yesterday, I got a lovely tan brown sloppy one this morning- cheers!! More worried about his crying and scratching at his new litter tray though- last thing I need is him to have a UTI on top of everything else!! :S


I would change back to his old one for now..stress can also be a factor for a runny bum..


----------



## Matti

I would..... But I chucked it out!! :S

So far tonight... In twice, digging twice, went toilet twice! And the poo was darker and less smelly again.... 

By the way, has anyone been given Diarsanyl or clavaseptin for their kitty?? Any thoughts on it? I know clavaseptin is a type of penicillin/amoxicillin but I thought it was normally used for skin conditions?


----------



## nicolaa123

Just looking at the meds now..

This looks very interesting. Vet Pharmacy | Diarsanyl Plus for Cats (10ml) | Digestion

Does Tom like it??

This one Clavaseptin Chewable Tablets (50 mg) (Canada) Veterinary Information from Drugs.com looks like they are thinking some sort of bacteria possibly? Tho with out tests results, I'm unsure. It says treats Staph Infection in Cats | petMD. And http://www.felipedia.org/~felipedi/wiki/index.php?title=Streptococcal_infection

They must be covering all bases? I'm sure Riley was tested for both and came back clear..did the vets summary give a clearer picture as to what and why they are testing?

The diarsanyl does look interesting..I'm due to order some flea stuff etc so might get a tube to try on the next flare up..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just looking at the meds now..
> 
> *This looks very interesting. Vet Pharmacy | Diarsanyl Plus for Cats (10ml) | Digestion*Does Tom like it??
> 
> This one Clavaseptin Chewable Tablets (50 mg) (Canada) Veterinary Information from Drugs.com looks like they are thinking some sort of bacteria possibly? Tho with out tests results, I'm unsure. It says treats Staph Infection in Cats | petMD. And http://www.felipedia.org/~felipedi/wiki/index.php?title=Streptococcal_infection
> 
> They must be covering all bases? I'm sure Riley was tested for both and came back clear..did the vets summary give a clearer picture as to what and why they are testing?
> 
> The diarsanyl does look interesting..I'm due to order some flea stuff etc so might get a tube to try on the next flare up..


I've just had a look at Diarsanyl and wonder whether it might work on Meeko's excess acid,although he doesnt have "dire rear"
He is not eating as well as he has been but seems to be okay otherwise,maybe not quite as "bouncy" as usual though.Still on the antacids but may try giving him a break from them in a day or two.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've just had a look at Diarsanyl and wonder whether it might work on Meeko's excess acid,although he doesnt have "dire rear"
> He is not eating as well as he has been but seems to be okay otherwise,maybe not quite as "bouncy" as usual though.Still on the antacids but may try giving him a break from them in a day or two.


Sounds a bit like a drink!

I let Riley out tonight, first proper out time all week really as been only letting him out for a short time (half an hour at most) He decided to "supplement" his dinner with a mouse  

I'm not sure if he ate it or not as he ran off with it. His appetite seems to be on the increase as well.

He is happy tho as I stopped at pets at home and got him a new scratch box and a new toy!!

Maybe with Meeko a break from meds might get his bounce back..? It's so blinking hard to know what to do with them!! If ok I aim to take Riley at end of the month for weight check and to get some more steroids as a "just in case"


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sounds a bit like a drink!
> 
> I let Riley out tonight, first proper out time all week really as been only letting him out for a short time (half an hour at most) He decided to "supplement" his dinner with a mouse
> 
> I'm not sure if he ate it or not as he ran off with it. His appetite seems to be on the increase as well.
> 
> He is happy tho as I stopped at pets at home and got him a new scratch box and a new toy!!
> 
> Maybe with Meeko a break from meds might get his bounce back..? It's so blinking hard to know what to do with them!! If ok I aim to take Riley at end of the month for weight check and to get some more steroids as a "just in case"


I'm trying not to think about weight as I'm sure Meeko has lost some  He just doesnt "feel right"
Meeko watches field mice at the window bird feeder ,I dont know what he would do with one if it was on the other side of the glass.He is literally 2/3 inches away from them and just sits watching.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I'm trying not to think about weight as I'm sure Meeko has lost some  He just doesnt "feel right"
> Meeko watches field mice at the window bird feeder ,I dont know what he would do with one if it was on the other side of the glass.He is literally 2/3 inches away from them and just sits watching.


Yeah but last time I was convinced Riley had put on as he looked bigger, so the eye can deceive..but I think he has lost weight too..not so much can see his hip bones, but his waist is noticeable. I so hate this horrible thing..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah but last time I was convinced Riley had put on as he looked bigger, so the eye can deceive..but I think he has lost weight too..not so much can see his hip bones, but his waist is noticeable. I so hate this horrible thing..


Me too


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Me too


On a cheery note Riley is currently confused by his new scratch box, it's double layered and has a ball in the bottom with holes he can reach it with 

Willows Catnip Scratchbox | Pets at Home

It's currently being stalked and he is getting bit grumpy he can't get the ball..guess what I will hear all night


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> On a cheery note Riley is currently confused by his new scratch box, it's double layered and has a ball in the bottom with holes he can reach it with
> 
> Willows Catnip Scratchbox | Pets at Home
> 
> It's currently being stalked and he is getting bit grumpy he can't get the ball..guess what I will hear all night


Meeko has one as well, I have really annoyed him by putting his favourite toys and some very smelly treats in it :devil: It keeps him out of mischief for a while


----------



## Matti

Think I'm going to have to get myself one of those toys!!

Tom won't eat the Diarsanyl, so I have to squirt it into his mouth which isn't fun... Smells like chocolate to me, so I cant understand why he wouldn't want to eat it! (But he loved he smelly pro-kolin....). I think maybe it seems to help, his poos are starting to look better.

Drs note just says 'a variety of external lab tests' and that they will discuss the full extent once results come in so we know what we're dealin with.

On the downside, he's gone for about a million (7) pees tonight which are TINY amounts... Simeone will be visiting the vet tomorrow for sure (if I can get an appt- :S otherwise first thing Monday!) no crying and he doesn't look in pain but the pee thing isn't normal so we'll see what the vet says (my usual vet isn't working so I better not get fobbed off by some idiot or I will go mad).

My poor little boy  he's 16 weeks old today/tomorrow too!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Think I'm going to have to get myself one of those toys!!
> 
> Tom won't eat the Diarsanyl, so I have to squirt it into his mouth which isn't fun... Smells like chocolate to me, so I cant understand why he wouldn't want to eat it! (But he loved he smelly pro-kolin....). I think maybe it seems to help, his poos are starting to look better.
> 
> Drs note just says 'a variety of external lab tests' and that they will discuss the full extent once results come in so we know what we're dealin with.
> 
> On the downside, he's gone for about a million (7) pees tonight which are TINY amounts... Simeone will be visiting the vet tomorrow for sure (if I can get an appt- :S otherwise first thing Monday!) no crying and he doesn't look in pain but the pee thing isn't normal so we'll see what the vet says (my usual vet isn't working so I better not get fobbed off by some idiot or I will go mad).
> 
> My poor little boy  he's 16 weeks old today/tomorrow too!


Poor Tom, could it be a side effect to the meds? Best to take him to vets tho to be on safe side..hope he is ok, let us know how he gets on..


----------



## Matti

So I can't get an appt today... Hoping someone cancels basically. Although I've been awake since 7.30am and up since 8.30am and he's been to the litter tray once for a normal sized pee!! And the tray has a total of two normal sized pees in there!

I also noticed that they treat an infection with clavaseptin (which he is on anyway!) so maybe that's why it's gotten better this morning! 

It's all very strange but I think I'm just going to keep an eye on him over the next two days if I don't get an appointment today and then try and get him in on Monday. If he's stopped doing the frequent tiny pee though, I think I'll call and speak to the vet before I take him in- he might think I don't need to or might just ask for a sample I guess.

Also, checked the side effects for both meds and none of them refer to frequent peeing.... Maybe he was somehow sore after the anal probing (even though it's not the urethra...) or maybe the scan pushed on his bladder and made it sore? Or maybe the clavaseptin is simply fighting off the bacteria infection!!

Either way, he seems happy enough to sit and knead on me and headbutt my iPhone because I'm writing this instead of playing with him!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So I can't get an appt today... Hoping someone cancels basically. Although I've been awake since 7.30am and up since 8.30am and he's been to the litter tray once for a normal sized pee!! And the tray has a total of two normal sized pees in there!
> 
> I also noticed that they treat an infection with clavaseptin (which he is on anyway!) so maybe that's why it's gotten better this morning!
> 
> It's all very strange but I think I'm just going to keep an eye on him over the next two days if I don't get an appointment today and then try and get him in on Monday. If he's stopped doing the frequent tiny pee though, I think I'll call and speak to the vet before I take him in- he might think I don't need to or might just ask for a sample I guess.
> 
> Also, checked the side effects for both meds and none of them refer to frequent peeing.... Maybe he was somehow sore after the anal probing (even though it's not the urethra...) or maybe the scan pushed on his bladder and made it sore? Or maybe the clavaseptin is simply fighting off the bacteria infection!!
> 
> Either way, he seems happy enough to sit and knead on me and headbutt my iPhone because I'm writing this instead of playing with him!


That's good he is having normal wee's again..


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, do you remember you gave Riley Logic gel and were not sure if it had set off his IBD? Did you ever come to any conclusion about it? I have some Logic gel, Virbac enzyme toothpaste and Plaque Off for Fluff Beast (he has gingivitis so I just torment him with everything in an effort to save him losing any teeth). Mittens currently escapes all dental attention because I'm too nervous to give her anything that might upset her tummy. Luckily her gums look pretty healthy at the mo. but as prevention is better than cure....and Fluff Beast thinks it's all very unfair....I'd like to start her on one of the above. Any experience with IBD? cats much appreciated.


----------



## Tao2

Matti, how's Tom now?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, do you remember you gave Riley Logic gel and were not sure if it had set off his IBD? Did you ever come to any conclusion about it? I have some Logic gel, Virbac enzyme toothpaste and Plaque Off for Fluff Beast (he has gingivitis so I just torment him with everything in an effort to save him losing any teeth). Mittens currently escapes all dental attention because I'm too nervous to give her anything that might upset her tummy. Luckily her gums look pretty healthy at the mo. but as prevention is better than cure....and Fluff Beast thinks it's all very unfair....I'd like to start her on one of the above. Any experience with IBD? cats much appreciated.


I have been waiting to get him stable again before trying it. I would like to try it again. Think if we get passed 7 days I will try it again and see the response..touch wood all is still ok..


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh no Riley is really hungry.......he also wants to go out which is very curious at this time of night


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Matti, how's Tom now?


Been out tonight so only just been able to post!

Tom seems MUCH better today. Normal amount of visits to the litter tray, decent sized pee, no crying and some hard brown stools! This must almost be what having a healthy kitty is like.

I have a precautionary appt on Monday with the vet but if he carries on like today, I'll probably cancel it. Fingers crossed then!!! It seems medication is finally working but I'm worried about what happens when it ends on Monday.... Hoping it wont come straight back like before.


----------



## Tao2

Matti, That's great news! Sounds like maybe he was suffering from all the vet investigations. Fingers crossed he stays good and you can cancel tomorrow.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Been out tonight so only just been able to post!
> 
> Tom seems MUCH better today. Normal amount of visits to the litter tray, decent sized pee, no crying and some hard brown stools! This must almost be what having a healthy kitty is like.
> 
> I have a precautionary appt on Monday with the vet but if he carries on like today, I'll probably cancel it. Fingers crossed then!!! It seems medication is finally working but I'm worried about what happens when it ends on Monday.... Hoping it wont come straight back like before.


Sorry if you have already said,,when do you get tests results back?

Good news about his poo


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Matti, how's Tom now?





nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry if you have already said,,when do you get tests results back?
> 
> Good news about his poo


Test results take between 7-10 days apparently. The vet said that he'd contact me immediately if any come back that are a cause for concern, otherwise he'll contact me when they are all back in for a full rundown of the tests and the results. That should hopefully be the end of this week.


----------



## Tao2

Oh no, decided to worm cats yesterday, don't know why I bothered because they aren't even going outside but thought I should do it just in case. Used Drontal. Massive tablets for poor things and since having hers, Mittens has been sick 3 times, developed a very dodgy walk late last night which really frightened me (although fine today) and she's not eating. Wish I hadn't done it, naturally they haven't passed any worms. 
Going back to Panacur next time, she's never been poorly after that.


----------



## Cloudygirl

well I am back. Boo has been fine with mum and dad no diarrhoea, no poos out of tray, has eaten antibiotic. If he's ok overnight I'll start adding a bit of his dried back in tomorrow.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh no, decided to worm cats yesterday, don't know why I bothered because they aren't even going outside but thought I should do it just in case. Used Drontal. Massive tablets for poor things and since having hers, Mittens has been sick 3 times, developed a very dodgy walk late last night which really frightened me (although fine today) and she's not eating. Wish I hadn't done it, naturally they haven't passed any worms.
> Going back to Panacur next time, she's never been poorly after that.


Oh no has she eaten today at all??


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> well I am back. Boo has been fine with mum and dad no diarrhoea, no poos out of tray, has eaten antibiotic. If he's ok overnight I'll start adding a bit of his dried back in tomorrow.


Is it gain free?? Might be worth trying a grain free biscuit..


----------



## Tao2

Yes she's nibbled at bits but not much of anything...however, she is lying on my lap upside down with all 4 legs in the air and purring away so obviously not feeling bad!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Yes she's nibbled at bits but not much of anything...however, she is lying on my lap upside down with all 4 legs in the air and purring away so obviously not feeling bad!


Oh good she has eaten little bit, hopefully she will eat more..


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Yes she's nibbled at bits but not much of anything...however, she is lying on my lap upside down with all 4 legs in the air and purring away so obviously not feeling bad!


Definitely a good sign!! Good stuff


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no has she eaten today at all??


Have you tried stronghold? That's what our vets give and what I use for Tom- I use the spot-on and don't have a problem with that, and it's targets some types of worm too...


----------



## Cloudygirl

nicolaa123 said:


> Is it gain free?? Might be worth trying a grain free biscuit..


yep we only have lamb or fish acana and fish4cats.

So I've had perfect solid poop today but the bad news is it wasn't in the litter tray so we can't be feeling 100%. Perfectly formed though which is great.

I forgot to say that the vet said not to give him his flea treatment while he was sick. he said better to leave it for 2 weeks.


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> yep we only have lamb or fish acana and fish4cats.
> 
> So I've had perfect solid poop today but the bad news is it wasn't in the litter tray so we can't be feeling 100%. Perfectly formed though which is great.
> 
> I forgot to say that the vet said not to give him his flea treatment while he was sick. he said better to leave it for 2 weeks.


Sounds like he's getting there slowly.... A formed poop is good so hopefully next time it'll be in the tray *fingers crossed* I so hope he's on the mend for you 

Re: flea treatment- is that even with spot on? Tom is due his today but the last few days he's been doing 2-3 normal (large) pees and 2 solid dark poos a day and I don't want to give him a set-back....

It's his last tablet tonight (clavaseptin) and he has a few more days of the Diarsanyl so we'll see what happens!! Fingers crossed....


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> yep we only have lamb or fish acana and fish4cats.
> 
> So I've had perfect solid poop today but the bad news is it wasn't in the litter tray so we can't be feeling 100%. Perfectly formed though which is great.
> 
> I forgot to say that the vet said not to give him his flea treatment while he was sick. he said better to leave it for 2 weeks.


Good news for the sold poo, let's hope next time in the tray :thumbsup:

My vet has always said to treat fleas/worms as normal..guess they all think differently..


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Sounds like he's getting there slowly.... A formed poop is good so hopefully next time it'll be in the tray *fingers crossed* I so hope he's on the mend for you
> 
> Re: flea treatment- is that even with spot on? Tom is due his today but the last few days he's been doing 2-3 normal (large) pees and 2 solid dark poos a day and I don't want to give him a set-back....
> 
> It's his last tablet tonight (clavaseptin) and he has a few more days of the Diarsanyl so we'll see what happens!! Fingers crossed....


Good news all round on the poo front then!! Riley is still solid here! Even his polyp is behaving..

Out of interest on the diarsanyl does it say if you can give a maintenance dose or is it just for times of diarrhoea?


----------



## Cloudygirl

Matti said:


> Sounds like he's getting there slowly.... A formed poop is good so hopefully next time it'll be in the tray *fingers crossed* I so hope he's on the mend for you
> 
> Re: flea treatment- is that even with spot on? Tom is due his today but the last few days he's been doing 2-3 normal (large) pees and 2 solid dark poos a day and I don't want to give him a set-back....
> 
> It's his last tablet tonight (clavaseptin) and he has a few more days of the Diarsanyl so we'll see what happens!! Fingers crossed....


Yep it's a spot on that they have activyl. My vet said it's unlikely to cause any harm but best not to risk it as he was feeling unwell so I haven't.

Fingers crossed. How are you finding diarsanyl mine liked that much better than pro kolin. I tried both when I first had them but I think the upset tummies then were because they were so terrified of me.


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> Yep it's a spot on that they have activyl. My vet said it's unlikely to cause any harm but best not to risk it as he was feeling unwell so I haven't.
> 
> Fingers crossed. How are you finding diarsanyl mine liked that much better than pro kolin. I tried both when I first had them but I think the upset tummies then were because they were so terrified of me.


Maybe I'll hold off on the de-fleaing for a bit then...

Tom HATES the Diarsanyl- I have to hold him still and pop the syringe into his mouth because he just won't eat it otherwise! He love the pro-kolin, but this stuff seems to be working much better!


----------



## buffie

Meeko is off to the vets this afternoon,his appetite has decreased dramatically.He doesnt eat a lot at the best of times but he is now eating less than half his normal food 
He doesnt seem to be "ill" still running around and getting up to mischief but he needs checking out.Will let you know how we get on later.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko is off to the vets this afternoon,his appetite has decreased dramatically.He doesnt eat a lot at the best of times but he is now eating less than half his normal food
> He doesnt seem to be "ill" still running around and getting up to mischief but he needs checking out.Will let you know how we get on later.


Oh sorry missed this earlier, how did you get on....?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh sorry missed this earlier, how did you get on....?


Not long back.Vet cant find anything obvious wrong and suspects he is having a "flare up"of his IBD.He has lost a bit more weight ,he is now 5.26kg a drop of .24kg since october.it doesnt sound a lot but it is a worry.
He has had a steroid inj. and has a provisional appt for Monday if not back to normal when he will have his blood tests re done to rule out any thing else which may have changed since the last time.He will of course be back before then if he doesnt start to eat better than he is at the moment.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not long back.Vet cant find anything obvious wrong and suspects he is having a "flare up"of his IBD.He has lost a bit more weight ,he is now 5.26kg a drop of .24kg since october.it doesnt sound a lot but it is a worry.
> He has had a steroid inj. and has a provisional appt for Monday if not back to normal when he will have his blood tests re done to rule out any thing else which may have changed since the last time.He will of course be back before then if he doesnt start to eat better than he is at the moment.


Oh no, I understand about the weight thing..any loss is a worry with these cats 

Hopefully the steroids will help his appetite..It's such a worry when they do not eat enough..thankfully Riley has his appetite back and is back eating around 200g per day. I'm dreading taking him for his weight check up. I think we have been at the vets every month since I can remember..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no, I understand about the weight thing..any loss is a worry with these cats
> 
> Hopefully the steroids will help his appetite..It's such a worry when they do not eat enough..thankfully Riley has his appetite back and is back eating around 200g per day. I'm dreading taking him for his weight check up. I think we have been at the vets every month since I can remember..


I have damn near started counting the number of bits of kibble I'm putting out to see just how much he is eating.For some reason he would rather eat the dry than his wet which he was favouring for a while 
We had a longish spell of I think 3 months with just a check up in the middle,but other than that i think a bit like you we have been there most months


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I have damn near started counting the number of bits of kibble I'm putting out to see just how much he is eating.For some reason he would rather eat the dry than his wet which he was favouring for a while
> We had a longish spell of I think 3 months with just a check up in the middle,but other than that i think a bit like you we have been there most months


I hope he eats..have you stopped the other meds he was on?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I hope he eats..have you stopped the other meds he was on?


I had stopped the famotidine because one of the side effects can be loss of appetite but it didnt make a difference,thats all he was on.
Vet said to start him on them again incase he is uncomfortable in his gut.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I had stopped the famotidine because one of the side effects can be loss of appetite but it didnt make a difference,thats all he was on.
> Vet said to start him on them again incase he is uncomfortable in his gut.


Poor mr m..we just can't seem to get them all back on track at the same time..


----------



## Cazzer

Buffie so sorry to hear about Meeko not eating and losing weight. If I could I'd send you some of Karlo's excess poundage as he is always ahem slightly rotund [ok fat ].

Nicola good news about Riley though :thumbup1:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Poor mr m..we just can't seem to get them all back on track at the same time..





Cazzer said:


> Buffie so sorry to hear about Meeko not eating and losing weight. If I could I'd send you some of Karlo's excess poundage as he is always ahem slightly rotund [ok fat ].
> 
> Nicola good news about Riley though :thumbup1:


He was doing so well too,it seems like just when you get things going in the right direction something bu**ers it up again


----------



## Tao2

Hope Meeko is eating again soon. Mittens is also off her food and am thinking about taking her to the vets esp. as OH noticed she was looking sorry for herself which generally means things are pretty flaming obvious....
Like Meeko though, she is not showing any symptoms no dire rear, no vomiting (well, not since the worming tablet last weekend) I had her on about 6 different varieties of food and over time she has been going off them one by one. None of the new varieties I have tried interest her in the slightest. So now she's gone off the last one and I've got nothing left that interests her. Am seriously thinking about going back to supermarket catfoods like Felix/Sheba/Gourmet etc, which she will eat but will make her vomit. Aghhh!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Hope Meeko is eating again soon. Mittens is also off her food and am thinking about taking her to the vets esp. as OH noticed she was looking sorry for herself which generally means things are pretty flaming obvious....
> Like Meeko though, she is not showing any symptoms no dire rear, no vomiting (well, not since the worming tablet last weekend) I had her on about 6 different varieties of food and over time she has been going off them one by one. None of the new varieties I have tried interest her in the slightest. So now she's gone off the last one and I've got nothing left that interests her. Am seriously thinking about going back to supermarket catfoods like Felix/Sheba/Gourmet etc, which she will eat but will make her vomit. Aghhh!!


You have my sympathy,Meeko is already back on supermarket rubbish as he has no intention of eating anything of decent quality,now that is being ignored.:incazzato::incazzato:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He was doing so well too,it seems like just when you get things going in the right direction something bu**ers it up again


Ain't that the truth!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hope Meeko is eating again soon. Mittens is also off her food and am thinking about taking her to the vets esp. as OH noticed she was looking sorry for herself which generally means things are pretty flaming obvious....
> Like Meeko though, she is not showing any symptoms no dire rear, no vomiting (well, not since the worming tablet last weekend) I had her on about 6 different varieties of food and over time she has been going off them one by one. None of the new varieties I have tried interest her in the slightest. So now she's gone off the last one and I've got nothing left that interests her. Am seriously thinking about going back to supermarket catfoods like Felix/Sheba/Gourmet etc, which she will eat but will make her vomit. Aghhh!!


Catch 22 there, I have some horse or rabbit if you want to try..


----------



## Matti

Only just managed to get online and see what's happening and... 

Oh poor Mittens and Meeko  I hope both of them start eating soon, even if it is rubbish supermarket stuff at present, because the main thing is for them both to gain some weight- you can tackle the change of food once their weight goes up a bit. Poor things  It's a shame they don't do cat bulk-up shakes like for humans, because that's basically what they need- once they get some weight, it'll be much easier to manage everything else... 

Maybe we need to invent cat bulk-up shakes...

Nicola, I hope Riley is still doing well- it sounds like he might be our only bright spot at the moment.

As for me and Tom, well I was at the Brit Awards yesterday (my birthday) when the vet called me at 10pm! Naturally, I automatically went into panic mode, and called him straight back- and we have a firm diagnosis for Tom...

1. He has toxaplasmosis- no-one is sure if it is a recent infection or what, but anyway I need to pick up the meds for this tonight. Apparently it isn't very serious but he wanted to call just in case I was pregnant since there's a small chance it can be passed onto humans. Problem is, the side effects of the medicine is vomiting and 'dire rear' -UH OH!

2. He has a severe overgrowth of bacteria (hence the inflammation)- that means yet another new good bacteria promoter to force feed poor Tom.

3. This is the most serious- Tom has Endocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI). Basically, Tom's pancreas is not producing the enzymes he needs to break down his food, so his undigested food is passing straight through him and out the other end- hence the 'dire rear'. 
From what I understand, this is very rare in cats at the best of times and they don't even make medicine for cats for this purpose. On top of this, the vet has never heard of this in a cat so young (16 weeks) so he isn't too sure of anything right now. 

The vet is calling up the pharma companies today to speak to them about treatment since the meds are made for dogs (it is very common in dogs) and to check they are safe for cats and the doseage for a cat so small and young. The meds basically consist of the enzymes nomally found in the pancreas, so basically we're going to be giving him enzymes to eat.

We're not currently sure whether as Tom gets older is pancreas will get better, or whether (more likely IMO) as he gets bigger the pancreas copes less well and produces less enzymes. All we do know is that he will be on a cocktail of different drugs (to be decided what ones) and it will be very trial and error as to which ones will work and level him out- we'll be looking to basically level him out and get his pancreas working at a good level before trying to wean him off so he only needs meds when there's a flare up, or if not, that he is on a very minimal dose.

Sorry this is such a long post!! but I'd never heard of this and this is all very new stuff to me and to the vet, so thought I'd share it with you guys just in case it's something you might think may apply with your kitties.

So in all, not the best end to my birthday yesterday! But at least we know what's wrong and we know what the next steps will be. *sigh*


----------



## Ianthi

Matti-I've just replied on your other thread about EPI. I've been wondering about the cause in such a small kitten (it's understandable in older ones with concurrent conditions like pancreatitis ) and now see Tom has toxoplasmosis. I do wonder if there is a connection between the two in that the parasite has 'damage' his pancreas? What does the vet think?


----------



## Tao2

Blimey Matti, that's a lot to take in. Hopefully Ianthi or someone else with veterinary knowledge will be able to offer some wise words. If I was in your shoes, my first question would be, is this likely to be permanent or transient?
I think there is thought to be an association between toxoplasmosis and pancreatitis in cats. Has your vet mentioned that?
Great that you've got some answers...but probably lots more questions too!! And that you have insurance....
Has your vet suggested referring to someone with more expertise?

I think you maybe onto something with the shakes, I would buy them!!


----------



## Ianthi

Tao2 said:


> .I think there is thought to be an association between toxoplasmosis and pancreatitis in cats. Has your vet mentioned that?


Tao2 We posted at exactly the same time. This is exactly what I was wondering as well since, unless congenital (unlikely) something must have interfered with pancreatic function!


----------



## Matti

I just spoke to the vet again, re: the drugs- Tom has to take 1/8 of a capsule with every meal- such a tiny amount!

He suggested there is a link between the two, but its something that no-one is so sure of- I think you're right though, that it sounds like it could have damaged his pancreas- especially being so young, it makes sense!

I don't know how he would have got the toxaplasmosis though... he's an indoor cat and I'm so confused about that one.

Plus side his, I can wean him off the I/D now and back onto the wet (yay!) otherwise he can't eat the enzymes since they won't sprinkle onto wet. Apparently I need to put him onto a high protein, low fat wet food if possible that ideally is quite bland... does anyone have any suggestions that don't cost the earth?

I know he loves his nature's essentials (Hilife) and I have about 10 boxes in the cupboard (bulk buying from before he got poorly) so I will wean him back onto that for now, because I'd rather he was eating something he likes so he keeps his weight up until we know the prognosis.

Unfortunately, it isn't something that is cureable, so long-term, we just don't know what will happen- even the pharma companies have little experience in a kitty so young


----------



## Tao2

Matti said:


> I just spoke to the vet again, re: the drugs- Tom has to take 1/8 of a capsule with every meal- such a tiny amount!
> 
> He suggested there is a link between the two, but its something that no-one is so sure of- I think you're right though, that it sounds like it could have damaged his pancreas- especially being so young, it makes sense!
> 
> I don't know how he would have got the toxaplasmosis though... he's an indoor cat and I'm so confused about that one.
> 
> Plus side his, I can wean him off the I/D now and back onto the wet (yay!) otherwise he can't eat the enzymes since they won't sprinkle onto wet. Apparently I need to put him onto a high protein, low fat wet food if possible that ideally is quite bland... does anyone have any suggestions that don't cost the earth?
> 
> I know he loves his nature's essentials (Hilife) and I have about 10 boxes in the cupboard (bulk buying from before he got poorly) so I will wean him back onto that for now, because I'd rather he was eating something he likes so he keeps his weight up until we know the prognosis.
> 
> Unfortunately, it isn't something that is cureable, so long-term, we just don't know what will happen- even the pharma companies have little experience in a kitty so young


Toxoplasmosis is incredibly common in cats and if the mother cat is infected, she will pass it onto her kittens. I think that is the most likely route of transmission, so he would have come to you already infected but not necessarily showing any symptoms.


----------



## Ianthi

Unless he's been fed raw food ever, the most likely route of infection is via the mother (transplacental) so very probably he's always had it! Lots of cats can carry it and be asymptomatic though it can be quite (potentially) dangerous in some kittens, including blindness, so he's relatively lucky really!

With our cat he remained on the Hills i/d owing to the pancreatitis. I'm trying to remember which mainstream foods are low in fat (Sch??) but hopefully will recall later. Sounds as if he's lipase deficient, if that's the case. Were stools very greasy? You never know once Toxo is treated, it may resolve though I guess depends on extend and nature of damage. You'd need a US to know for sure!


----------



## Matti

The vet did say there is a chance if the toxo is sorted he might get better, but he thinks it is very very unlikely given the severity of the EPI and the mildness of the toxo in comparison.

I thought the toxo is probably from the mum, so I'm wondering if I should let the mother's owner know?? She's a lovely lady so I don't want her to think I'm accusing her of making my cat ill!

If he has had it from birth, then I would say that it potentially supports the link theory- that the toxo damaged the pancreas. I'm going to look into that I think....


Re the build-up shakes, I reckon if we could find the perfect formula, we'd make a fortune as well, I think so many people are struggling to get weight on their furbabies


----------



## nicolaa123

Gosh matti, that was a lot for you to take in on your birthday!!

Only thing I can add is, if your vet has not had much experience in this, could he refer you to a vet hospital??

At least you have a diagnosis and can now work towards getting Tom feeling better..

I will have a look at some food bits..I am sure hills will do a low fat option 

I also think vet-concept do one also..


----------



## nicolaa123

Can only find the dry CAT CARE SENSITIVE - Cat care sensitive Magen & Darm ERKRANKUNGEN KATZEN - Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

Will keep looking..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, Riley does not want to be left out 

Not diarrhoea, but he cam in and it was almost like he had a poo, then sat on it and squidged it around his bum!! Not all up his tail so do not think it was explosive but squishy..

We are due back at vets next week, I was going to just ask to see nurse for weight check, but think will see vet as nothing I seem to try, works with this little one 

Just don't know what to try next..I don't want him on steroids for years and years..


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, thanks so much for the food offer. I don't think she will eat horse, I think she likes rabbit but we have pet rabbits so it's a bit of an issue feeding it to the cats.....can't look the rabbits in the eye...still if things carry on like this I will be coming back to you begging for bunny, will just have to take the label off so nobody knows my shame....

About 2 minutes after I wrote that post yesterday, Mittens waltzed into the kitchen and devoured an entire tray of food. This morning she had a gigantic breakfast. Since then, virtually nothing. I have no idea what she's playing at.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, thanks so much for the food offer. I don't think she will eat horse, I think she likes rabbit but we have pet rabbits so it's a bit of an issue feeding it to the cats.....can't look the rabbits in the eye...still if things carry on like this I will be coming back to you begging for bunny, will just have to take the label off so nobody knows my shame....
> 
> About 2 minutes after I wrote that post yesterday, Mittens waltzed into the kitchen and devoured an entire tray of food. This morning she had a gigantic breakfast. Since then, virtually nothing. I have no idea what she's playing at.


No worries 

Riley is driving me crazy..he is "starving", plus he keeps running around the house with one of my hair clip (it's a large one so no danger) he is full of beans tonight!! The ravenous need for food is defiantly back


----------



## buffie

Matti  Not sure whether it is good or bad,you have a dignosis,but bl**dy hell that is a lot to get your head around.
Hope now that you know what you are dealing with you can sort poor Tom out


----------



## buffie

Tao2 and nicola what is up with our furbabes,why cant we get them all sing from the same song sheet


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Tao2 and nicola what is up with our furbabes,why cant we get them all sing from the same song sheet


I really think its a conspiracy between them..:nono:


----------



## Matti

They're just trying to keep us all on our toes!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> They're just trying to keep us all on our toes!!


Or drive us insane!!:mad5:

What meds have they suggested for Tom?


----------



## buffie

Meeko is still not eating and has been given a Mirtazapine to kick start his appetite.He has been yelling and pacing for the last 2 hours ,stopping only to eat,he has eaten more in the last 2 hours than he has in the last two days.
He is in to the vets tomorrow for a repeat of all bloods to see whether something new is going on.He still doesnt seem "ill" but obviously something is wrong


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko is still not eating and has been given a Mirtazapine to kick start his appetite.He has been yelling and pacing for the last 2 hours ,stopping only to eat,he has eaten more in the last 2 hours than he has in the last two days.
> He is in to the vets tomorrow for a repeat of all bloods to see whether something new is going on.He still doesnt seem "ill" but obviously something is wrong


Oh poor mr m..what is going on with all these cats?? Maybe ask for the epi test?? I'm going to ask my vet about it..

Hope all goes well with vet visit..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh poor mr m..what is going on with all these cats?? Maybe ask for the epi test?? I'm going to ask my vet about it..
> 
> Hope all goes well with vet visit..


Epi test ?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Epi test ?


Endocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency it's what matti's Tom has..been looking at some info and symptoms seem similar to ibd..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Endocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency it's what matti's Tom has..been looking at some info and symptoms seem similar to ibd..


Meeko doesnt have "increased appetite,dire rear ,or odd coloured greasy stools" so doubt that is likely,but will mention it,if my brain hasnt turned to mush


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> Meeko doesnt have "increased appetite,dire rear ,or odd coloured greasy stools" so doubt that is likely,but will mention it,if my brain hasnt turned to mush


Well with the exception of the fire rear, Tom was totally asymptomatic of EPI so I don't really know what prompted the vet and the lab to run the test- I think it was a 'just in case so we can rule it out' test that came back positive. So maybe worth doing just to rule it out.

Re the meds, I don't have the enzyme one yet so don't know what it is (first lot comes in on Saturday and we'll try that and if not, move onto a new brand) but we have the meds for the toxoplasmosis he is on clindamycin.


----------



## buffie

Blood tests all done,some being tested in-house others sent to external lab.
So far the in-house have all come back as "normal" a couple are either lower end or higher end but nothing that he says is worrying.White blood cell count is slightly low-end normal but I'm thinking that could be the steroid inj ,didnt think to ask the vet at the time.The other if I remember is cholesterol which is high end of normal.He is still eating but not as well as lastnight.Will be interesting to see how he is by Sunday when the Mirtazapine has left his system.If all stays well will make appt to speak with vet when all results are in.
Didnt see my own vet as he was doing op's but asked about the EPI test and vet said very unlikey as nothing showed up last time on the PLI-TLI test,think thats what he called it  but that test was being repeated anyway but results wont be back till mid week at the earliest.


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> Blood tests all done,some being tested in-house others sent to external lab.
> So far the in-house have all come back as "normal" a couple are either lower end or higher end but nothing that he says is worrying.White blood cell count is slightly low-end normal but I'm thinking that could be the steroid inj ,didnt think to ask the vet at the time.The other if I remember is cholesterol which is high end of normal.He is still eating but not as well as lastnight.Will be interesting to see how he is by Sunday when the Mirtazapine has left his system.If all stays well will make appt to speak with vet when all results are in.
> Didnt see my own vet as he was doing op's but asked about the EPI test and vet said very unlikey as nothing showed up last time on the PLI-TLI test,think thats what he called it  but that test was being repeated anyway but results wont be back till mid week at the earliest.


I'm glad thatnone of the results so far are too worrying  And definitely glad that EPI is unlikely too  Fingers crossed with the rest for you.

I hope he manages to carry on eating- I wish we could explain to them that the more they eat, the better their bodies can cope with everything!!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Blood tests all done,some being tested in-house others sent to external lab.
> So far the in-house have all come back as "normal" a couple are either lower end or higher end but nothing that he says is worrying.White blood cell count is slightly low-end normal but I'm thinking that could be the steroid inj ,didnt think to ask the vet at the time.The other if I remember is cholesterol which is high end of normal.He is still eating but not as well as lastnight.Will be interesting to see how he is by Sunday when the Mirtazapine has left his system.If all stays well will make appt to speak with vet when all results are in.
> Didnt see my own vet as he was doing op's but asked about the EPI test and vet said very unlikey as nothing showed up last time on the PLI-TLI test,think thats what he called it  but that test was being repeated anyway but results wont be back till mid week at the earliest.


I think one of us is going to have to study at vet school!!

Pleased all ok so far..fingers crossed all the other tests come back ok..

Come on mr m.....eat!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *I think one of us is going to have to study at vet school!!*Pleased all ok so far..fingers crossed all the other tests come back ok..
> 
> Come on mr m.....eat!!


I've been out of the education system for too long so I will pass on that one 
Did work as a locum vet nurse at PDSA for 6 weeks though if that counts (no formal training but they were desperate for help )
He is eating ,just not a lot,oh and he has lost another 100g since wednesday


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've been out of the education system for too long so I will pass on that one
> Did work as a locum vet nurse at PDSA for 6 weeks though if that counts (no formal training but they were desperate for help )
> He is eating ,just not a lot,oh and he has lost another 100g since wednesday


Oh no..not more weight loss..


----------



## nicolaa123

Normal poo here tonight..I have been back on regimented feeding recs!! It's so annoying, he needs to eat more to put weight on, but when he eats more it goes right through him 

I'm officially starting an I hate ibd club..:mad5:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Normal poo here tonight..I have been back on regimented feeding recs!! It's so annoying, he needs to eat more to put weight on, but when he eats more it goes right through him
> 
> I'm officially starting an I hate ibd club..:mad5:


Add me to the membership list


----------



## Cloudygirl

hope everyones boys and girls are better soon


----------



## buffie

This just gets better and better  Meeko now has dire rear and guess who only had 2 or 3 doses of prokolin left :incazzato::incazzato: Ive had to phone E-Vets to ask for a tube (vet closed) its so much more expensive than Animed  Hope it is just a stress thing from all the poking he had yesterday 
Note to self must remember to keep a better stock


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> This just gets better and better  Meeko now has dire rear and guess who only had 2 or 3 doses of prokolin left :incazzato::incazzato: Ive had to phone E-Vets to ask for a tube (vet closed) its so much more expensive than Animed  Hope it is just a stress thing from all the poking he had yesterday
> Note to self must remember to keep a better stock


Oh no!! I'm guessing Meeko won't entertain boiled chicken or fish..Riley does not like boiled anything 

Hopefully it's a one day thing with him and is down to the poking around..i


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no!!* I'm guessing Meeko won't entertain boiled chicken or fish*..Riley does not like boiled anything
> 
> Hopefully it's a one day thing with him and is down to the poking around..i


Got it in one Ive tried boiled/poached fish/chicken and been met with a disappearing backside .He's sleeping at the moment after having a few bits of kibble,he is refusing to eat any wet at all 
I have the added problem of whether to give him his Mirtazapine tomorrow as he isnt eating as much as he should be,but if he still has dire rear do I want to make it worse .The vet at E-vets said to phone in the morning if I was unsure and she would have a better idea what to suggest then.


----------



## Cloudygirl

I'm lucky mine love poached fish. In fact yesterday I couldn't get cheapo fillets so they had premium cod and there was much growling over dinner . 


Hope mr Meekos bum clears up. What are you feeding him?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Got it in one Ive tried boiled/poached fish/chicken and been met with a disappearing backside .He's sleeping at the moment after having a few bits of kibble,he is refusing to eat any wet at all
> I have the added problem of whether to give him his Mirtazapine tomorrow as he isnt eating as much as he should be,but if he still has dire rear do I want to make it worse .The vet at E-vets said to phone in the morning if I was unsure and she would have a better idea what to suggest then.


I would see how he is over night and give them a call in the morning with any concerns you have with the mirtazapine..

Poor Meeko, hope he is doing better soon..


----------



## Tao2

Wish mittens would eat poached fish. It seems ridiculous to dish up lovingly cooked premium fish to a cat who proceeds to act like you have offered her a bowl of toenail clippings. Actually, she would definitely show more interest in toenail clippings.
Buffie hope Mr M feeling better soon. Not like him to have a dire rear is it? 
On a good note, Mittens eating normally again.


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> I'm lucky mine love poached fish. In fact yesterday I couldn't get cheapo fillets so they had premium cod and there was much growling over dinner .
> 
> Hope mr Meekos bum clears up. What are you feeding him?


Just his usual supermarket sh*t and some dry nothing changed but he has been off his food and been for blood tests yesterday so ,hoping,its the stress of it all.



nicolaa123 said:


> I would see how he is over night and give them a call in the morning with any concerns you have with the mirtazapine..
> 
> Poor Meeko, hope he is doing better soon..


thats the plan but how do I know if he has stopped the dire rear, that the meds and eating are not going to start him off again



Tao2 said:


> Wish mittens would eat poached fish. It seems ridiculous to dish up lovingly cooked premium fish to a cat who proceeds to act like you have offered her a bowl of toenail clippings. Actually, she would definitely show more interest in toenail clippings.
> Buffie hope Mr M feeling better soon. Not like him to have a dire rear is it?
> On a good note, Mittens eating normally again.


Nope he has I think had a runny bum on only two previous ocassions


----------



## nicolaa123

The problem is we don't know if stopping meds, keeping on meds, eating or not eating helps or does not help..that's ibd for you!!


----------



## Cloudygirl

Well I've just come home to sick but its regurgitated biscuit sick and a bit of dire rear no blood. First morning I fed them together I'm guessing the naughty bugger woofed all the biscuits before his brother could eat any and it's too much for his tum. So back on the fish only we go and separate feeding what a pain in the arse!!!!!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Well I've just come home to sick but its regurgitated biscuit sick and a bit of dire rear no blood. First morning I fed them together I'm guessing the naughty bugger woofed all the biscuits before his brother could eat any and it's too much for his tum. So back on the fish only we go and separate feeding what a pain in the arse!!!!!!!!


Separate feeding seems the way to go..


----------



## Cloudygirl

My problem is I have quite a long commute and bobby who doesn't have a bad bum likes to graze at his food but I'm having to pull it up when I bring boo back in. So I'm having to feed them at about 6 am to leave the food down long enough for bobs to eat all of his


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> My problem is I have quite a long commute and bobby who doesn't have a bad bum likes to graze at his food but I'm having to pull it up when I bring boo back in. So I'm having to feed them at about 6 am to leave the food down long enough for bobs to eat all of his


Sounds like a nightmare!! That's one of the reasons I've not got another cat as yet..


----------



## buffie

We're still up.I'm a bit wary of going to bed and leaving Meeko.He is curled up on the top of his barrel and I dont want to disturb him .
It is 6 hours now since his last "toilet break :arf:" .He has eaten a small amount of food but looks as though he has a sore guts .
If he is no better tomorrow then he may have to go to the OOH vet,the problem is that will stress him even more.
Apologies  I'm feeling sorry for my self and my boy,your probably all tucked up by now.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> We're still up.I'm a bit wary of going to bed and leaving Meeko.He is curled up on the top of his barrel and I dont want to disturb him .
> It is 6 hours now since his last "toilet break :arf:" .He has eaten a small amount of food but looks as though he has a sore guts .
> If he is no better tomorrow then he may have to go to the OOH vet,the problem is that will stress him even more.
> Apologies  I'm feeling sorry for my self and my boy,your probably all tucked up by now.


Nah still up here!! You talk away, I know what it's like!!

Poor Meeko, sending him a virtual hug..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Nah still up here!! You talk away, I know what it's like!!
> 
> Poor Meeko, sending him a virtual hug..


So I'm not alone then  He still hasnt moved and looks quite comfortable,but the minute I make a move I'm sure to disturb him.
Just looked out the window and its f*****g snowing now


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> So I'm not alone then  He still hasnt moved and looks quite comfortable,but the minute I make a move I'm sure to disturb him.
> Just looked out the window and its f*****g snowing now


Little bit snowing here..I'm keeping Riley up in the hope of a lay in tomorrow ..plus find it hard to sleep when had b12 injection ..

Riley has been licking his bum a lot, think its irritating him tonight! If I win the lottery I'm hiring my own vet to cure our cats from this horrible thing..


----------



## nicolaa123

Just seen small bit of blood from his bum..

I just can't make the decision on the polyp..put up with it or operate and Riley could be incontinent..which any cat would hate..arrggghhhhhhhgh!! It's too hard to make the decision.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Little bit snowing here..I'm keeping Riley up in the hope of a lay in tomorrow ..plus find it hard to sleep when had b12 injection ..
> 
> Riley has been licking his bum a lot, think its irritating him tonight! *If I win the lottery I'm hiring my own vet to cure our cats from this horrible thing*..


Poor Riley,it cant be pleasant having a sore bum 
Sounds like money well spent if you do win the lottery,I stopped doing it over a year ago.I'm sure they keep forgetting to put my numbers in the damn thing 
Its up and prowling,not sure if he is feeling a bit better or just stretching his legs


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just seen small bit of blood from his bum..
> 
> I just can't make the decision on the polyp..put up with it or operate and Riley could be incontinent..which any cat would hate..arrggghhhhhhhgh!! It's too hard to make the decision.


Oh no  Poor chap.
What a horrible decision to have to make.Have you asked for a referral,just to find out what the specialists think,it may be better odds than you realise.
I agree though about a cat hating it if it was to go wrong


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh no  Poor chap.
> What a horrible decision to have to make.Have you asked for a referral,just to find out what the specialists think,it may be better odds than you realise.
> I agree though about a cat hating it if it was to go wrong


They said they can refer, but two of them say as its attached to his muscle, it's more than likely to cause more problems to remove it, rather than leave it..which is why I've been slow in taking up the referral to be honest..

It does not bother him that much, right now he s trying to kill what's in his scratch box, so funny to watch him trying to get the ball out of a square hole!!

I think his polyp bothers me more than him if that makes sense. I am finding it hard to make that choice to put him through an op that could end up making him worse 

I dunno.. I have got this week off so I am going to give it some serious thought..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley,it cant be pleasant having a sore bum
> Sounds like money well spent if you do win the lottery,I stopped doing it over a year ago.I'm sure they keep forgetting to put my numbers in the damn thing
> Its up and prowling,not sure if he is feeling a bit better or just stretching his legs


I love it when cats prowl, they look so proud and elegant..


----------



## buffie

If it is a possibility I would go for a consultation with the specialist just to see what their take on it is ,after all you dont have to act on it.
Right I'm off to bed with or without a furry hot water bottle.He has disappeared so I will probably find him already in the bed  Speak soon xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If it is a possibility I would go for a consultation with the specialist just to see what their take on it is ,after all you dont have to act on it.
> Right I'm off to bed with or without a furry hot water bottle.He has disappeared so I will probably find him already in the bed  Speak soon xx


We are at vets next week so will ask them..Riley is now trying to chew my iPad 

Nite sleep well and let's hope all our cats are much better in the morning..xx


----------



## Matti

I'm a bit pissed and seeing two of everything so excuse ny bad spelling /typing.

I'm so sorry everyone's babies are feeling so poorly, and I can join the dire rear and stress club. 

Have just come home after my first night out in ages to find poor Tom has been sick everywhere. The clincydamin (sp? Drunk!) is makin him sick, have worse dire rear and a total loss of appetite- so much so that I had a breakdown earlier And spent two hours crying into a pillow. 

I'm just so grateful that Tom is still bright and playful and energetic ... If he wasn't I'd seriously be considering what is best for him in the long run. He's just such a baby and it's so unfair to him to have these problems for such a young age. :'( and if something happens to him I don't think I could bring myself to have another cat.... I'd be too worried about something happening to them 

Also, do you think I should tell the owner of Tom's mum about the toxaplasmosis? The OH an I are arguing becUse I think we should just in case...


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I'm a bit pissed and seeing two of everything so excuse ny bad spelling /typing.
> 
> I'm so sorry everyone's babies are feeling so poorly, and I can join the dire rear and stress club.
> 
> Have just come home after my first night out in ages to find poor Tom has been sick everywhere. The clincydamin (sp? Drunk!) is makin him sick, have worse dire rear and a total loss of appetite- so much so that I had a breakdown earlier And spent two hours crying into a pillow.
> 
> I'm just so grateful that Tom is still bright and playful and energetic ... If he wasn't I'd seriously be considering what is best for him in the long run. He's just such a baby and it's so unfair to him to have these problems for such a young age. :'( and if something happens to him I don't think I could bring myself to have another cat.... I'd be too worried about something happening to them
> 
> Also, do you think I should tell the owner of Tom's mum about the toxaplasmosis? The OH an I are arguing becUse I think we should just in case...


Yes i think you should tell them..

Hang on in there..Tom just needs to get right meds and will get better..

One bit advice..don't expect to much and enjoy the good times..and don't get too obsessed with the bad ones, shake em off and carry on with tomorrow..


----------



## Tao2

OH NO. After reading all your posts about dire rears, I got up this morning to be greeted with....yes you've guessed it....the way I see it, I can either blame:
1) Myself, I cracked and gave her some HiLife.
or 
2) You lot, because your cats have somehow passed it on through the ether.

Naturally I appreciate that the former is the more likely culprit but I don't want the blame....:thumbdown:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> OH NO. After reading all your posts about dire rears, I got up this morning to be greeted with....yes you've guessed it....the way I see it, I can either blame:
> 1) Myself, I cracked and gave her some HiLife.
> or
> 2) You lot, because your cats have somehow passed it on through the ether.
> 
> Naturally I appreciate that the former is the more likely culprit but I don't want the blame....:thumbdown:


Oh no not another one!

The like was for you blaming us..

What is wrong with all these cats..I'm wondering if its a conspiracy..


----------



## Treaclesmum

I found some D last night, probably Jumpy again, it's like 1 step forward then 2 steps back 

Seems to be the dry Sensitivity kibble that's making it worse... he's ok on the wet but not the dry version..... wish the vet hadn't given me that one! :rolleyes5:


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> I'm a bit pissed and seeing two of everything so excuse ny bad spelling /typing.
> 
> I'm so sorry everyone's babies are feeling so poorly, and I can join the dire rear and stress club.
> 
> Have just come home after my first night out in ages to find poor Tom has been sick everywhere. The clincydamin (sp? Drunk!) is makin him sick, have worse dire rear and a total loss of appetite- so much so that I had a breakdown earlier And spent two hours crying into a pillow.
> 
> I'm just so grateful that Tom is still bright and playful and energetic ... If he wasn't I'd seriously be considering what is best for him in the long run. He's just such a baby and it's so unfair to him to have these problems for such a young age. :'( and if something happens to him I don't think I could bring myself to have another cat.... I'd be too worried about something happening to them
> 
> Also, do you think I should tell the owner of Tom's mum about the toxaplasmosis? The OH an I are arguing becUse I think we should just in case...


Dont apologise for being a bit pi$$ed if I hadnt been worried that Meeko may have needed the emergency vet lastnight i would have been having a few myself 
Poor Tom he isnt having the best start ,but as Nicola says just focus on the good bits,I know its hard but believe me its the only way to avoid the cuddlejacket 
I think it may be a good thing to tell Toms mum's owner just to make her aware of the situation.



Tao2 said:


> OH NO. After reading all your posts about dire rears, I got up this morning to be greeted with....yes you've guessed it....the way I see it, I can either blame:
> 1) Myself, I cracked and gave her some HiLife.
> or
> 2) You lot, because your cats have somehow passed it on through the ether.
> 
> Naturally I appreciate that the former is the more likely culprit but I don't want the blame....:thumbdown:


Oh well at least nobody has been left out 
Hope everyone is feeling a bit better,slaves included.


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> I found some D last night, probably Jumpy again, it's like 1 step forward then 2 steps back
> 
> Seems to be the dry Sensitivity kibble that's making it worse... he's ok on the wet but not the dry version..... wish the vet hadn't given me that one! :rolleyes5:


Which one have they given jumpy..sorry to hear he is not feeling well again..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no not another one!
> 
> The like was for you blaming us..
> 
> What is wrong with all these cats..I'm wondering if its a conspiracy..


Well no more "dire rear" since lastnight so paws crossed that is an end of it.He has eaten some wet and dry food this morning but is still very flat.Looks like he will be keeping the provisional appt tomorrow,if not before


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Dont apologise for being a bit pi$$ed if I hadnt been worried that Meeko may have needed the emergency vet lastnight i would have been having a few myself
> Poor Tom he isnt having the best start ,but as Nicola says just focus on the good bits,I know its hard but believe me its the only way to avoid the cuddlejacket
> I think it may be a good thing to tell Toms mum's owner just to make her aware of the situation.
> 
> Oh well at least nobody has been left out
> Hope everyone is feeling a bit better,slaves included.


We are not bad this morning!!

How's Meeko?


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> Which one have they given jumpy..sorry to hear he is not feeling well again..


They've given him the Royal Canin Sensitive, wet and dry... the dry seems to upset all their tums a bit! It's Duck and rice. They have had Hills dry in the past and they were fine on that, and my friend says her elderly cat does fine on the Hills Sensitive Stomach (chicken and egg), so might get that for them instead! They have wet at mealtimes but they often want to snack, so that might be better for them I guess


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Well no more "dire rear" since lastnight so paws crossed that is an end of it.He has eaten some wet and dry food this morning but is still very flat.Looks like he will be keeping the provisional appt tomorrow,if not before


Cross posted 

Good he has eaten and no runs..

It's horrible when they are flat..Riley normally takes himself off to his cat carrier, rather than sit on me, that's when I know he is not well.


----------



## buffie

Treaclesmum said:


> I found some D last night, probably Jumpy again, it's like 1 step forward then 2 steps back
> 
> Seems to be the dry Sensitivity kibble that's making it worse... he's ok on the wet but not the dry version..... wish the vet hadn't given me that one! :rolleyes5:


Hope Jumpy is okay,maybe best not to feed the dry and just give him the wet.


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> They've given him the Royal Canin Sensitive, wet and dry... the dry seems to upset all their tums a bit! It's Duck and rice. They have had Hills dry in the past and they were fine on that, and my friend says her elderly cat does fine on the Hills Sensitive Stomach (chicken and egg), so might get that for them instead! They have wet at mealtimes but they often want to snack, so that might be better for them I guess


Sorry I know you probably have posted before, but what are they saying is likely to be wrong with jumpy?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Cross posted
> 
> Good he has eaten and no runs..
> 
> It's horrible when they are flat..Riley normally takes himself off to his cat carrier, rather than sit on me, that's when I know he is not well.


Meeko does both,he either goes up on top of the boiler or the wardrobe(above a radiator) or sits on me to make sure I know he isnt well


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry I know you probably have posted before, but what are they saying is likely to be wrong with jumpy?


Just inflammation and sensitive stomach at the moment, but they are testing a poo sample (possibly Giardia). Had 3 weeks of sloppy poos with the odd good one in between..... :rolleyes5:

The wet seems gentler on his tummy than the dry, but he does get through it!


----------



## buffie

Treaclesmum said:


> Just inflammation and sensitive stomach at the moment, but they are testing a poo sample (possibly Giardia). Had 3 weeks of sloppy poos with the odd good one in between..... :rolleyes5:
> 
> The wet seems gentler on his tummy than the dry, but he does get through it!


It is probably the fillers in the dry that jumpy is reacting to,I would stick with the wet .


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> Just inflammation and sensitive stomach at the moment, but they are testing a poo sample (possibly Giardia). Had 3 weeks of sloppy poos with the odd good one in between..... :rolleyes5:
> 
> The wet seems gentler on his tummy than the dry, but he does get through it!


Have they given metronidazole? Re the food if he did better on the I/d I would switch him back on that, until you get the poo under control..


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> Have they given metronidazole? Re the food if he did better on the I/d I would switch him back on that, until you get the poo under control..


He's having that, as are the other 2 (they all switch bowls!), I guess we will just have to stock up on it!  Sounds a good plan 

Just been reading about not mixing proteins which might be a good idea.


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> He's having that, as are the other 2 (they all switch bowls!), I guess we will just have to stock up on it!  Sounds a good plan
> 
> Just been reading about not mixing proteins which might be a good idea.


Are they all having the metrondazole.? Or all having the I/d


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear that Jumpy Meeko and Riley aren't too good sending lots of virtual fusses to them and get well vibes to them [and any others that need it in the 'club' that I've missed]. Hoping you are all better this morning and not worrying your slaves so much x


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> Are they all having the metrondazole.? Or all having the I/d


The Metrondazole was prescribed for Jumpy but it was impossible to get any into him.........  The others don't need it at the moment, but IF the test comes back as Giardia then they will probably all need it or an alternative treatment. All having the RC wet Sensitive chicken and rice though (Jumpy eats from everyone's bowl so all have to have it!)


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> The Metrondazole was prescribed for Jumpy but it was impossible to get any into him.........  The others don't need it at the moment, but IF the test comes back as Giardia then they will probably all need it or an alternative treatment. All having the RC wet Sensitive chicken and rice though (Jumpy eats from everyone's bowl so all have to have it!)


I am quite lucky in the fact I can get pills into Riley, fairly easily. I do the head back, mouth open drop pill in close then give lots of fuss after..I think my vet did offer an injection of ab's before, but as I can get pills into him, I've not needed it.

I would think tho, with putting it in the food he may not be getting the right dose, especially if they all swap bowls..could you maybe feed his meds separately?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am quite lucky in the fact I can get pills into Riley, fairly easily. I do the head back, mouth open drop pill in close then give lots of fuss after..I think my vet did offer an injection of ab's before, but as I can get pills into him, I've not needed it.
> 
> I would think tho, with putting it in the food he may not be getting the right dose, especially if they all swap bowls..could you maybe feed his meds separately?


Thankfully Meeko is absolutely fine with meds too,he hates it but doesnt put up too much fuss.Even squirting that disgusting pro-kolin.Done it 3 times since yesterday and didnt miss once.I would have no chance putting anything in his food,he would either be on a "food strike" or smell it and just plain refuse to eat it.


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> I am quite lucky in the fact I can get pills into Riley, fairly easily. I do the head back, mouth open drop pill in close then give lots of fuss after..I think my vet did offer an injection of ab's before, but as I can get pills into him, I've not needed it.
> 
> I would think tho, with putting it in the food he may not be getting the right dose, especially if they all swap bowls..could you maybe feed his meds separately?


I give all his meds directly into his mouth. He'd normally ok with it but _hated_ the Metrodanizole, even when mixed with water like the vet suggested and syringed - plus most of the crushed tablet got left behind in the syringe!! But as that was just a precaution, he doesn't have that one at the moment, he is having Prokolin though which helps.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti, has had some positive reactions with one that sounds like a drink!!


----------



## Tao2

Me again, am total fool, is not Mittens with the dire rear at all it is the Fluff Beast!! She is fine. It is a nightmare when you have more than 1! Even when it's only 2. Treaclesmum you have my sympathy! Having to feed them all an expensive diet because Jumpy eats from everyones bowl is so annoying. I have given up trying to feed them separately too because someone always gets the wrong food. Back to the poo watch....now have identified the actual culprit


----------



## Treaclesmum

Tao2 said:


> Me again, am total fool, is not Mittens with the dire rear at all it is the Fluff Beast!! She is fine. It is a nightmare when you have more than 1! Even when it's only 2. Treaclesmum you have my sympathy! Having to feed them all an expensive diet because Jumpy eats from everyones bowl is so annoying. I have given up trying to feed them separately too because someone always gets the wrong food. Back to the poo watch....now have identified the actual culprit


Oh dear! Glad she's fine anyway 

Just remembered I've got a box of James Wellbeloved which they sometimes like, so maybe that can be safely added into their diet  (It sounds more hypo-allergenic than anything by Royal Canin!)


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Me again, am total fool, is not Mittens with the dire rear at all it is the Fluff Beast!! She is fine. It is a nightmare when you have more than 1! Even when it's only 2. Treaclesmum you have my sympathy! Having to feed them all an expensive diet because Jumpy eats from everyones bowl is so annoying. I have given up trying to feed them separately too because someone always gets the wrong food. Back to the poo watch....now have identified the actual culprit


Poor Mittens getting the blame for something she didnt do 
Now you just have to work out what caused it


----------



## Tao2

Absolutely no clue, he's had same food as Mittens and not been out. Except for toothpaste? But he's been having that for ages. Just assumed it was Mittens because it's ALWAYS Mittens. Anyway he's not done any since, so fingers crossed.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Absolutely no clue, he's had same food as Mittens and not been out. Except for toothpaste? But he's been having that for ages. Just assumed it was Mittens because it's ALWAYS Mittens. Anyway he's not done any since, so fingers crossed.


Might be a bug??


----------



## Matti

Glad Mittens is okay, but oh dear Fluff Beast!! Sounds like it might have just been a little something he snarfed from the floor without you knowing maybe? I am constantly cleaning because I'm so paranoid Tom's going to eat something he shouldn't! Anyway I certainly hope it's a one-off!!

Re the metronidazole, were none of you given it in liquid form?? I was given a liquid form for Tom initially, which was much easier to give- pop the syringe in and squeeze straight into his throat before he has a chance to spit it up, then stroke his throat to encourage swallowing. I would definitely suggest asking for the liquid form.

Tom is refusing his wet food almost entirely... If I try and sprinkle a little James Wellbeloved dry on top to encourage eating, he snarfs the dry and leaves the wet- so frustrating since he HAS to be on wet permanently now. He will only eat the wet if I hand feed him, which is fine over the weekend but tomorrow I'm back at work so I'm just HOPING he will eat on his own and realise he has to eat... :S in the meantime I've written to James Wellbeloved and asks fr a sample of their wet and will get a sample of Applaws canned kitten so will try him on those, see if that makes a difference- they are both fairly low carb and high protein, which is what Tom has been told to eat by the vet. 

Should be picking up his enzymes tomorrow too, so fingers crossed I might finally have some improvement!!

I hope everyone else's little ones start perking up soon please- it's about time we all get some good news, methinks.


----------



## Cloudygirl

We have no bad bums here today but man they reek of fish


----------



## Treaclesmum

No bad bums here today either  So that's good news that Jumpy hasn't done anything bad, not sure he's done anything on the tray yet! Which proves it's the dry food (Sensitivity version) that wasn't helping him - although the wet version is doing him good (along with boiled chicken). So no more dry, and here's hoping for further improvements tomorrow...


----------



## nicolaa123

Started Riley on some metrondazole tonight, he has been ok ish all week, yet tonight...........

Please some one tell me I can cope with this!!

I can cope of course, but it's nice to just say that sometimes..

Vets this week, will call tomorrow and make an appointment..

Not sure tho, what they can do for him as I am convinced its not food related..guess my boy will be on meds long term :thumbdown:

I hate this!!!!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Started Riley on some metrondazole tonight, he has been ok ish all week, yet tonight...........
> 
> Please some one tell me I can cope with this!!
> 
> I can cope of course, but it's nice to just say that sometimes..
> 
> Vets this week, will call tomorrow and make an appointment..
> 
> Not sure tho, what they can do for him as I am convinced its not food related..guess my boy will be on meds long term :thumbdown:
> 
> I hate this!!!!


You can do this!! We all can despite how it might feel sometimes!! Every time I get down I just look at Tom and think about what would happen to him if I didn't try everything and go through wih everything- so just think about how much worse Riley might have been if he wasn't with you- you are doing brilliantly.... You all are!!

I know how you feel re the long term meds  disheartening but if it's best for them in the long run then so be it.

[and if you need anything, I'm only down the road remember!!  ]

Also, spoken to my vet and he's looking into whether he knows of any specialists in the fairly local area...


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, I just wonder if it is some pathogen that hasn't been detected yet. One that, like Giardia, damages the gut causing the food sensitivities? But also there are flair ups that are not food related.

Matti, sounds like you are having a complete 'mare at the moment. Just keep trying to tempt him with different things. Hope gorgeous Tom starts eating more soon. I too struggle to get Mittens to eat when I'm not there to keep presenting her with a fresh little spoonful. I'm not even sure if I haven't made things worse by getting her into the habit of lots of little meals all day long because when I'm not there to do it, she doesn't bother to eat much. Aghhhh!

Fluff Beast been fine since this morning. Hoping there won't be any litter tray nasties tomorrow morning....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> You can do this!! We all can despite how it might feel sometimes!! Every time I get down I just look at Tom and think about what would happen to him if I didn't try everything and go through wih everything- so just think about how much worse Riley might have been if he wasn't with you- you are doing brilliantly.... You all are!!
> 
> I know how you feel re the long term meds  disheartening but if it's best for them in the long run then so be it.
> 
> [and if you need anything, I'm only down the road remember!!  ]
> 
> Also, spoken to my vet and he's looking into whether he knows of any specialists in the fairly local area...


I am looking at him now, playing with his scratch box, desperately trying to get the ball out, it's like a ping ball machine so funny!! I know any minute now he will get grumpy and complain 

I'm ok really, cleaning bums I don't mind..plus it is not bothering him!!

Need to take my own advice and get a grip!!

Thing with long term meds it can cause other issues later on in life 

Ok here comes grumpy one!! Ohhhhhhhh he looks grumpy :yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, I just wonder if it is some pathogen that hasn't been detected yet. One that, like Giardia, damages the gut causing the food sensitivities? But also there are flair ups that are not food related.
> 
> Matti, sounds like you are having a complete 'mare at the moment. Just keep trying to tempt him with different things. Hope gorgeous Tom starts eating more soon. I too struggle to get Mittens to eat when I'm not there to keep presenting her with a fresh little spoonful. I'm not even sure if I haven't made things worse by getting her into the habit of lots of little meals all day long because when I'm not there to do it, she doesn't bother to eat much. Aghhhh!
> 
> Fluff Beast been fine since this morning. Hoping there won't be any litter tray nasties tomorrow morning....


He has been tested for all parasites and none detected..he has also been religiously wormed since I got him as kitten..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well we are booked in this afternoon..am going to go through this thread and make some notes of what has been happening, weights and take with me to the vets..

I will also ask about the epi test..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well we are booked in this afternoon..am going to go through this thread and make some notes of what has been happening, weights and take with me to the vets..
> 
> I will also ask about the epi test..


Nicola you are having a bad spell and sometimes,understandably it makes us feel deflated, we all seem to be having a bad few days.
This past w/end took me back to when I was in the middle of Meeko's initial illness and tests and the worry it all caused.Then I look at the good times which reminds me this is a blip and he will soon be okay again.
We are just back from the vet where Meeko made a total tart of himself ,rolling on the floor and generally getting into everything,made me look like a paranoid twit 
He has joined the Metronidazole gang,vet wants to try a different approach as steroids dont seem to be helping.
He is on 1/4 tablet twice a day is that what Riley is on and did he show any side effects.Think I'll start tomorrow morning to give him time to show any adverse reaction during surgery hours.
Good luck at the vets


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola you are having a bad spell and sometimes,understandably it makes us feel deflated, we all seem to be having a bad few days.
> This past w/end took me back to when I was in the middle of Meeko's initial illness and tests and the worry it all caused.Then I look at the good times which reminds me this is a blip and he will soon be okay again.
> We are just back from the vet where Meeko made a total tart of himself ,rolling on the floor and generally getting into everything,made me look like a paranoid twit
> He has joined the Metronidazole gang,vet wants to try a different approach as steroids dont seem to be helping.
> He is on 1/4 tablet twice a day is that what Riley is on and did he show any side effects.Think I'll start tomorrow morning to give him time to show any adverse reaction during surgery hours.
> Good luck at the vets


Well we are back, he has lost again, now down to 4.15kg 

She had a feel of his tummy and she said felt gassy, also a lump node was but swollen which she said would be caused by the diarrhoea. Spoke about the epi test and he has had some bloods drawn..was sporting a yellow bandage, but have just taken it off as he was going mental at it.

Before she sends the bloods she is going to look back again at the last blood tests, as she thinks he has been tested for it before, she could not check then as they have changed their computer system 

So she will call me on Wednesday with an update on the way forward as she wants to go over what we have already tried. She is concerned like I am about his weight loss, especially as he apart from those odd days he has been eating very well, yet still not able to even maintain his weight!!

With the metrondazole, you may see Meeko being a bit quiet on them, but apart from that no real side affects, possibly decrease in appetite also..

My friend who normally takes me to vet, was working today so had to get taxi...had two lovely drivers, both animal lovers and was so nice. The one of the way home even suggested raw food for Riley..

I'm bit worried about his lymph nodes now, when she found it she was like oh what's that..my stomach literately did a double flip!!

Anyway I'm off to shop to buy some wine..anyone fancy a glass??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well we are back, he has lost again, now down to 4.15kg
> 
> She had a feel of his tummy and she said felt gassy, also a lump node was but swollen which she said would be caused by the diarrhoea. Spoke about the epi test and he has had some bloods drawn..was sporting a yellow bandage, but have just taken it off as he was going mental at it.
> 
> Before she sends the bloods she is going to look back again at the last blood tests, as she thinks he has been tested for it before, she could not check then as they have changed their computer system
> 
> So she will call me on Wednesday with an update on the way forward as she wants to go over what we have already tried. She is concerned like I am about his weight loss, especially as he apart from those odd days he has been eating very well, yet still not able to even maintain his weight!!
> 
> With the metrondazole, you may see Meeko being a bit quiet on them, but apart from that no real side affects, possibly decrease in appetite also..
> 
> My friend who normally takes me to vet, was working today so had to get taxi...had two lovely drivers, both animal lovers and was so nice. The one of the way home even suggested raw food for Riley..
> 
> I'm bit worried about his lymph nodes now, when she found it she was like oh what's that..my stomach literately did a double flip!!
> 
> Anyway I'm off to shop to buy some wine..anyone fancy a glass??


Oh not such great news .Not sure about the lymph nodes but I think they can be enlarge when fighting infection.
We(vet) were talking about one of the nurses cats who had IBD and he was losing weight even when eating fairly well,so it seems to be quite a common occurence
What is your vet going to test for(apart from the pancreatic insuff).We are still waiting for Meekos other results to come back,one is the pancreatic one 
Of all the side effects of the Metronidazole inappetance and quiet are not good  he is already like that.)
As for the wine I think I need something a bit stronger  but thank you for the offer


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh not such great news .Not sure about the lymph nodes but I think they can be enlarge when fighting infection.
> We(vet) were talking about one of the nurses cats who had IBD and he was losing weight even when eating fairly well,so it seems to be quite a common occurence
> What is your vet going to test for(apart from the pancreatic insuff).We are still waiting for Meekos other results to come back,one is the pancreatic one
> Of all the side effects of the Metronidazole inappetance and quiet are not good  he is already like that.)
> As for the wine I think I need something a bit stronger  but thank you for the offer


She is going to ring me Wednesday after reviewing his notes again and doing bit research as to what they will test for this time..the pancreatic one she said can take up to 14 days to get results..as has to goto America?? She did mention hyperthyroidism..but he is the wrong age really..I think she wants a couple of days to look into some more possibilities so at least he can have more relevant tests done..which is the right course of action I think.

You maybe ok with Meeko, he might not have the side effects..oh Riley is on 1/8 tablet due to his weight..he is quiet tonight, but the a vet trip normally does that! With the metrondazole try and give after eating or during eating, I found If I gave on empty tummy it made him more quiet. Best time for Riley is mid meal..

I really wish I could understand it more..I do not think its food related tho..ok now his food is grain free I think that has helped..single proteins I think have also helped, but I don't think it's a food sensitivity issue. I think there is something else going on..but what I have no freaking idea!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> She is going to ring me Wednesday after reviewing his notes again and doing bit research as to what they will test for this time..*the pancreatic one she said can take up to 14 days to get results..as has to goto America*?? She did mention hyperthyroidism..but he is the wrong age really..I think she wants a couple of days to look into some more possibilities so at least he can have more relevant tests done..which is the right course of action I think.
> 
> You maybe ok with Meeko, he might not have the side effects..oh Riley is on 1/8 tablet due to his weight..he is quiet tonight, but the a vet trip normally does that! With the metrondazole try and give after eating or during eating, I found If I gave on empty tummy it made him more quiet. Best time for Riley is mid meal..
> 
> I really wish I could understand it more..I do not think its food related tho..ok now his food is grain free I think that has helped..single proteins I think have also helped, but I don't think it's a food sensitivity issue. I think there is something else going on..but what I have no freaking idea!!


Must be a different pancreatic test,Meeko's has gone to Liverpool.
I had a cat with hyper T but she was also diabetic so had mixed symptoms but it doesnt sound anything like Puss's problems.
Did Riley have to have it twice a day.Giving it to meeko with or after food could be challenging,as he doesnt eat at reliable times.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Must be a different pancreatic test,Meeko's has gone to Liverpool.
> I had a cat with hyper T but she was also diabetic so had mixed symptoms but it doesnt sound anything like Puss's problems.
> Did Riley have to have it twice a day.Giving it to meeko with or after food could be challenging,as he doesnt eat at reliable times.


Yep twice a day..Usually here in morning with breakfast about 7 then evening meal about 6..

I will ask about tests..I'm sure she said they would have to goto America..to index or indect?? Head was bit lost after his weight check and the lymph thing..


----------



## Tao2

Hi Nicola, Mittens lymph nodes have been enlarged on a previous visit to the vet, prompting him to test for FIV and FeLV...thankfully negative and they went down again (as far as I know??!! panics...never been mentioned since but am I right to assume that means everything OK? Aghhh!!). Racking my brains to remember what she was treated with that time but confess it was a long time ago and can't remember.

What has his weight come down from and over how long??


----------



## Cloudygirl

I give up now boo is ok but bobby is constipated


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi Nicola, Mittens lymph nodes have been enlarged on a previous visit to the vet, prompting him to test for FIV and FeLV...thankfully negative and they went down again (as far as I know??!! panics...never been mentioned since but am I right to assume that means everything OK? Aghhh!!). Racking my brains to remember what she was treated with that time but confess it was a long time ago and can't remember.
> 
> What has his weight come down from and over how long??


This time 4.15kg. His last weigh in was 16th jan this year and he was 4.37 kg.. 12th December 2012 he was 4.42 kg, will have to check my notes for dates and all weights..have some written down, September 2012 4.1kg 29th June 2012 was 4.75 21st December 2011 was 4.9.. He has at one point been over 5kgs..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> I give up now boo is ok but bobby is constipated


Oh no!! If its not one eh! Hope bobby gets some movement soon..


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> I give up now boo is ok but bobby is constipated


What is going on with these bl**dy cats.We are all going to end up in cuddle jackets .Hope Bobby can "relieve" himself soon,poor furbie


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I really wish I could understand it more..I do not think its food related tho..ok now his food is grain free I think that has helped..single proteins I think have also helped, but I don't think it's a food sensitivity issue. I think there is something else going on..but what I have no freaking idea!!


I tend to agree here.I too wonder if something in food triggers an already inflamed gut,rather than the food being the cause.Meeko has only 1 episode of vomit and will then go 5/6 days sometimes longer before he has another 1 episode of vomit.Surely if there is a food intolerance there would be more of a reaction than that


----------



## nicolaa123

Think I need a cuddle jacket!!

Riley is asleep in hs cat igloo, which is against the radiator..poor boy, just seen vets shaved his neck also for bloods..guess he was not very cooperative which is why they did his arm..think next time I will ask to come in the back room as at least I can keep him calm..

I'm looking forward to hearing my vets plan of action as I can't see him continually loosing weight like this..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I tend to agree here.I too wonder if something in food triggers an already inflamed gut,rather than the food being the cause.Meeko has only 1 episode of vomit and will then go 5/6 days sometimes longer before he has another 1 episode of vomit.Surely if there is a food intolerance there would be more of a reaction than that


Exactly..a food intolerance in my head is if you eat something your body reacts to it each and every time..for example my friends daughter every time she eats chilli her lips swell up and she itches.

Maybe once the gut is damaged it never repairs itself? Maybe it's a bacterial reaction? Hmmm bacteria would be more likely, however with Meeko being indoor he would be less likely to be exposed to bacteria than Riley who is a semi in with small bit outside time..so what other environmental factors/influences could it be?

I don't think stress as Riley lives a stress free life really..


----------



## Cloudygirl

And my car got written off so pretty **** ( or not lol) day huh

Hugs to you guys


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Think I need a cuddle jacket!!
> 
> Riley is asleep in hs cat igloo, which is against the radiator..poor boy, just seen vets shaved his neck also for bloods..guess he was not very cooperative which is why they did his arm..think next time I will ask to come in the back room as at least I can keep him calm..
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing my vets plan of action as I can't see him continually loosing weight like this..


Depending on the vet and the amount of blood needed most the vets I've worked with have always taken blood from the neck,the reason I was given is that it can be difficult to get enough blood from a small leg vein.All mine have had blood taken that way except Puss ,but she had legs like a Jack Russell she was a big girl 9kg at her heaviest 
You can borrow my cuddle jacket if I can find it,its somewhere in the rubber room,but I keep bouncing off the walls :crazy:


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> *And my car got written off so pretty **** *( or not lol) day huh
> 
> Hugs to you guys


Holy sh*t hope you are okay


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Holy sh*t hope you are okay


Bit of whiplash doc given me some strong painkillers I'm ok but very sad about car. Car old and so book value crap but was most reliable car ever so I'm going to be v out of pocket.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Depending on the vet and the amount of blood needed most the vets I've worked with have always taken blood from the neck,the reason I was given is that it can be difficult to get enough blood from a small leg vein.All mine have had blood taken that way except Puss ,but she had legs like a Jack Russell she was a big girl 9kg at her heaviest
> You can borrow my cuddle jacket if I can find it,its somewhere in the rubber room,but I keep bouncing off the walls :crazy:


He must have have put up a fight about the neck on then..which is why they ended up in his arm..

I can see a back leg being poked out his cat igloo, guess he is having a good rest!! Looks really funny!! He knows how to cheer me up!

Oh and 9kg wow, she was one big girl


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Bit of whiplash doc given me some strong painkillers I'm ok but very sad about car. Car old and so book value crap but was most reliable car ever so I'm going to be v out of pocket.


Oh no..pleased you are ok..


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> Bit of whiplash doc given me some strong painkillers I'm ok but very sad about car. Car old and so book value crap but was most reliable car ever so I'm going to be v out of pocket.


Glad your okay but sad about your car.
That happened to daughter and her O/H, no fault of theirs they lost their old dearly loved car,I reckon if her O/H hadnt been trapped in the car he would have punched the drivers lights out


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He must have have put up a fight about the neck on then..which is why they ended up in his arm..
> 
> *I can see a back leg being poked out his cat igloo, guess he is having a good rest!! Looks really funny!! He knows how to cheer me up!*
> Oh and 9kg wow, she was one big girl


Its amazing how,without really trying they can make us smile 

One large lady ,see below


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its amazing how,without really trying they can make us smile
> 
> One large lady ,see below


Wooooooowwwwwwww..how beautiful is she??


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl, I am so glad you're okay, but so sorry about your car!!!

Sending millions of my love to all the kitties and the owners, and I hope everyone is feeling better tomorrow!!

Having a 'mare of day which I will update all on tomorrow, and I have some information from a workmate of mine who is currently a mentor to an American vet over here doing his MBA- Tom was mentioned to him and he contacted his professor in the US so they've sat down and done an evaluation of Tom's symptoms- I want to share it with you guys in case there's something in there that might help one of you- it's 3 pages long so I will summarise and post tomorrow and actually post to all of you!

Sorry this is yet another generic message to everyone but just wanted to do a quick post to let you know I am paying attention and thinking of you all!!!


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Cloudygirl, I am so glad you're okay, but so sorry about your car!!!
> 
> Sending millions of my love to all the kitties and the owners, and I hope everyone is feeling better tomorrow!!
> 
> Having a 'mare of day which I will update all on tomorrow, and I have some information from a workmate of mine who is currently a mentor to an American vet over here doing his MBA- Tom was mentioned to him and he contacted his professor in the US so they've sat down and done an evaluation of Tom's symptoms- I want to share it with you guys in case there's something in there that might help one of you- it's 3 pages long so I will summarise and post tomorrow and actually post to all of you!
> 
> Sorry this is yet another generic message to everyone but just wanted to do a quick post to let you know I am paying attention and thinking of you all!!!


Sorry to read that you are having a "mare" of a day  
Hope you get somewhere with the American vet,looking forward to reading more about it


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Cloudygirl, I am so glad you're okay, but so sorry about your car!!!
> 
> Sending millions of my love to all the kitties and the owners, and I hope everyone is feeling better tomorrow!!
> 
> Having a 'mare of day which I will update all on tomorrow, and I have some information from a workmate of mine who is currently a mentor to an American vet over here doing his MBA- Tom was mentioned to him and he contacted his professor in the US so they've sat down and done an evaluation of Tom's symptoms- I want to share it with you guys in case there's something in there that might help one of you- it's 3 pages long so I will summarise and post tomorrow and actually post to all of you!
> 
> Sorry this is yet another generic message to everyone but just wanted to do a quick post to let you know I am paying attention and thinking of you all!!!


Will look forward to reading it..hope Tom is doing ok..


----------



## Treaclesmum

Good news about Jumpy - he's really turning the corner now - everything solid and odour free! (That was after ditching the dry sensitivity food from the vet... he's just had a nibble of Applaws though!) :thumbup1:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the ab's seem to be kicking in..still not a great poo, but not a tail splattering one, also the colour looked better..Sundays was very dark and concerning..

Appetite good, has eaten this morning about 100g of food..am trying the horse again, a little mixed with the kangaroo..I may also try the reindeer again mixed with the kangaroo. My thoughts are, if his body gets "used" to the food which could cause an issue, so a rotation of single proteins, would mean a change every other day..

Not that I'm thinking it is a food issue as such anymore..just want to see if this could work..as on one food, every two to three days he gets a reaction, so maybe breaking that cycle may help..?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the ab's seem to be kicking in..still not a great poo, but not a tail splattering one, also the colour looked better..Sundays was very dark and concerning..
> 
> Appetite good, has eaten this morning about 100g of food..am trying the horse again, a little mixed with the kangaroo..I may also try the reindeer again mixed with the kangaroo. My thoughts are, if his body gets "used" to the food which could cause an issue, so a rotation of single proteins, would mean a change every other day..
> 
> Not that I'm thinking it is a food issue as such anymore..just want to see if this could work..as on one food, every two to three days he gets a reaction, so maybe breaking that cycle may help..?


Anything is worth a try  Glad Riley seems a bit better 
Meeko has a runny bum again  fairly sure its "vet stress".
First a/b went in after a fight they are not as easy as famotidine  .Poor lad ,hope I dont have to give him pro-kolin as well.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Anything is worth a try  Glad Riley seems a bit better
> Meeko has a runny bum again  fairly sure its "vet stress".
> First a/b went in after a fight they are not as easy as famotidine  .Poor lad ,hope I dont have to give him pro-kolin as well.


The metrondazole does not have a very nice taste..(not my personal experience) so I always aim his pill trying to avoid his tongue..plus if I do it mid meal, his mouth already tastes of something so less likely to taste his pill!

Poor Meeko..has he been vomiting as well or just the back end?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> The metrondazole does not have a very nice taste..(not my personal experience) so I always aim his pill trying to avoid his tongue..plus if I do it mid meal, his mouth already tastes of something so less likely to taste his pill!
> 
> Poor Meeko..has he been vomiting as well or just the back end?


I can miss his tongue every time with the famotidine but the a/bs are twice the size 
No vomit for over 6 weeks now just "dire rear" it had stopped ,he was fine yesterday nice solid poop,so pretty sure it is stress related.We shall see.


----------



## Matti

Glad to see Riley is perking up, and definitely agree with the idea of rotating the food- might as well try everything possible, even if it is just to rule it out.

Poor Meeko and his 'dire rear'.  With regards to the pro-kolin, have you tried mixing it with anything? Tom wouldn't touch the stuff initially, so I mixed it with a little natural yoghurt (he loves the stuff) since it's a natural pro-biotic- it worked wonders, and he ate the whole thing. I slowly cut down on the yoghurt and now Tom will eat the pro-kolin straight off my fingers with nothing mixed in. If Meeko isn't lactose intolerant, I'd suggest trying it (maybe start with a tiny bit so you don't waste it just in case).

Managed to get Tom to eat two packs of hilife wet food yesterday (about 170g). I'm having to resort to sprinkling a little James Wellbeloved dry on top in order to get him going, but more often than not, he'll leave the dry in favour of the wet once he realises there is food. And, he ate on his own, without me having to handfeeding him (while I was at work)- when I got home, he decided I had to handfeed him and he snarfed down the lot.

Haven't had a chance to summarise everything the vet gave me yet (will do it after work tonight, so many contracts to draft today!) but I did notice one thing that has me a bit worried- if the toxoplasmosis Tom has was passed from mother to foetus (likely since he doesn't eat raw and doesn't go outside) then it can have severe long-term effects including death.... but he isn't showing depression or mental instability or the other signs of severe congential toxo. But then he didn't show the signs of having EPI either, so knowing my luck, he's got it bad!

And to top it all, Tom is turning into a massive 'fraidy cat' I think in part due to us having to hold him down and keep popping horrible tasting pills in his mouth- I think he's developing an aversion to me  It really does feel like one step forward and two steps back!

Hope everyone else has better luck today!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Glad to see Riley is perking up, and definitely agree with the idea of rotating the food- might as well try everything possible, even if it is just to rule it out.
> 
> Poor Meeko and his 'dire rear'.  With regards to the pro-kolin, have you tried mixing it with anything? Tom wouldn't touch the stuff initially, so I mixed it with a little natural yoghurt (he loves the stuff) since it's a natural pro-biotic- it worked wonders, and he ate the whole thing. I slowly cut down on the yoghurt and now Tom will eat the pro-kolin straight off my fingers with nothing mixed in. If Meeko isn't lactose intolerant, I'd suggest trying it (maybe start with a tiny bit so you don't waste it just in case).
> 
> Managed to get Tom to eat two packs of hilife wet food yesterday (about 170g). I'm having to resort to sprinkling a little James Wellbeloved dry on top in order to get him going, but more often than not, he'll leave the dry in favour of the wet once he realises there is food. And, he ate on his own, without me having to handfeeding him (while I was at work)- when I got home, he decided I had to handfeed him and he snarfed down the lot.
> 
> Haven't had a chance to summarise everything the vet gave me yet (will do it after work tonight, so many contracts to draft today!) but I did notice one thing that has me a bit worried- if the toxoplasmosis Tom has was passed from mother to foetus (likely since he doesn't eat raw and doesn't go outside) then it can have severe long-term effects including death.... but he isn't showing depression or mental instability or the other signs of severe congential toxo. But then he didn't show the signs of having EPI either, so knowing my luck, he's got it bad!
> 
> And to top it all, Tom is turning into a massive 'fraidy cat' I think in part due to us having to hold him down and keep popping horrible tasting pills in his mouth- I think he's developing an aversion to me  It really does feel like one step forward and two steps back!
> 
> Hope everyone else has better luck today!


Tom is eating that's a good sign. Vets got it early also a good sign. He is being treated another good sign...try not to worry about what could happen, that will have you taking up residence in buffies rubber room!!

As for the aversion thing, don't worry it will pass, after you have given pills, have a good play session and he will forget about it, but learn to associate pills with play


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Glad to see Riley is perking up, and definitely agree with the idea of rotating the food- might as well try everything possible, even if it is just to rule it out.
> 
> *Poor Meeko and his 'dire rear'.  With regards to the pro-kolin, have you tried mixing it with anything? Tom wouldn't touch the stuff initially, so I mixed it with a little natural yoghurt (he loves the stuff) since it's a natural pro-biotic- it worked wonders, and he ate the whole thing. I slowly cut down on the yoghurt and now Tom will eat the pro-kolin straight off my fingers with nothing mixed in. If Meeko isn't lactose intolerant, I'd suggest trying it (maybe start with a tiny bit so you don't waste it just in case).*
> Managed to get Tom to eat two packs of hilife wet food yesterday (about 170g). I'm having to resort to sprinkling a little James Wellbeloved dry on top in order to get him going, but more often than not, he'll leave the dry in favour of the wet once he realises there is food. And, he ate on his own, without me having to handfeeding him (while I was at work)- when I got home, he decided I had to handfeed him and he snarfed down the lot.
> 
> Haven't had a chance to summarise everything the vet gave me yet (will do it after work tonight, so many contracts to draft today!) but I did notice one thing that has me a bit worried- if the toxoplasmosis Tom has was passed from mother to foetus (likely since he doesn't eat raw and doesn't go outside) then it can have severe long-term effects including death.... but he isn't showing depression or mental instability or the other signs of severe congential toxo. But then he didn't show the signs of having EPI either, so knowing my luck, he's got it bad!
> 
> And to top it all, Tom is turning into a massive 'fraidy cat' I think in part due to us having to hold him down and keep popping horrible tasting pills in his mouth- I think he's developing an aversion to me  It really does feel like one step forward and two steps back!
> 
> Hope everyone else has better luck today!


I learned a long time ago that you cannot hide anything in food where Meeko's concerned.I just have to squirt it in his mouth and hope it doesnt shoot out the other side 
Agree with Nicola dont think of "worst case senario's" my rubber room is too busy at the moment for any visitors.


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> I learned a long time ago that you cannot hide anything in food where Meeko's concerned.I just have to squirt it in his mouth and hope it doesnt shoot out the other side
> Agree with Nicola dont think of "worst case senario's" my rubber room is too busy at the moment for any visitors.


Shame you can't hide anything in his food- it would make things so much easier!! Out of interest, how do you manage to 'disable' Meeko to give him stuff? We have such a song and dance with Tom, as soon as he sees the blanket he knows it's tablet time. How is Meeko tonight??

Came home to an empty bowl for the first time in AGES and a dark hardish poo- a miracle! And he's actually eating his enzymes now rather than trying to spit it all out!

How is Riley doing this evening?? And Mittens and Fluff Beast- was his dire rear a one-off!! and Jumpy and Boo and Bobby?? (and anyone I've missed out...) Hoping for more good news guys


----------



## Tao2

Matti said:


> Glad to see Riley is perking up, and definitely agree with the idea of rotating the food- might as well try everything possible, even if it is just to rule it out.
> 
> Poor Meeko and his 'dire rear'.  With regards to the pro-kolin, have you tried mixing it with anything? Tom wouldn't touch the stuff initially, so I mixed it with a little natural yoghurt (he loves the stuff) since it's a natural pro-biotic- it worked wonders, and he ate the whole thing. I slowly cut down on the yoghurt and now Tom will eat the pro-kolin straight off my fingers with nothing mixed in. If Meeko isn't lactose intolerant, I'd suggest trying it (maybe start with a tiny bit so you don't waste it just in case).
> 
> Managed to get Tom to eat two packs of hilife wet food yesterday (about 170g). I'm having to resort to sprinkling a little James Wellbeloved dry on top in order to get him going, but more often than not, he'll leave the dry in favour of the wet once he realises there is food. And, he ate on his own, without me having to handfeeding him (while I was at work)- when I got home, he decided I had to handfeed him and he snarfed down the lot.
> 
> Haven't had a chance to summarise everything the vet gave me yet (will do it after work tonight, so many contracts to draft today!) but I did notice one thing that has me a bit worried- if the toxoplasmosis Tom has was passed from mother to foetus (likely since he doesn't eat raw and doesn't go outside) then it can have severe long-term effects including death.... but he isn't showing depression or mental instability or the other signs of severe congential toxo. But then he didn't show the signs of having EPI either, so knowing my luck, he's got it bad!
> 
> And to top it all, Tom is turning into a massive 'fraidy cat' I think in part due to us having to hold him down and keep popping horrible tasting pills in his mouth- I think he's developing an aversion to me  It really does feel like one step forward and two steps back!
> 
> Hope everyone else has better luck today!


I might be wrong Matti, but I thought those symptoms of congenital toxoplasmosis are found in intermediate hosts of toxoplasmosis (eg sheep, humans) that are infected congenitally rather than in cats? Or can cats get the same symptoms too?

Is horrible when they start to think of you as the medicine man! They are remarkably forgiving when you think about it, I mean they won't associate the trauma of medication/vets visits with feeling better. Mittens has forgiven me for it but I don't think she will ever forgive the vet....

Looking forward to reading your report when you have time.


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Shame you can't hide anything in his food- it would make things so much easier!! *Out of interest, how do you manage to 'disable' Meeko to give him stuff*? We have such a song and dance with Tom, as soon as he sees the blanket he knows it's tablet time. How is Meeko tonight??
> 
> Came home to an empty bowl for the first time in AGES and a dark hardish poo- a miracle! And he's actually eating his enzymes now rather than trying to spit it all out!
> 
> How is Riley doing this evening?? And Mittens and Fluff Beast- was his dire rear a one-off!! and Jumpy and Boo and Bobby?? (and anyone I've missed out...) Hoping for more good news guys


From the start all our animals have learned to be held for medication/nail clipping /ears and eyes checked ect so "normally there is no problem,but sometimes if a cat/dog is feeling ill they can be a bit "unco-operative" thats when we have to become "inventive".Meeko doesnt object to having his mouth opened and a tablet dropped in,where it becomes a bit difficult,is when it tastes bad or is bigger than he is used to.I luckily have never had to resort to wrapping him in a towel.
He seems a bit better,he had a bit of a play earlier which is encouraging and he is eating okay ish also no more runny poop 
Sounds as though Tom is doing better too,heres hoping he is on the right road now


----------



## nicolaa123

I was same with Riley..checked eyes, ears,opened mouth etc..only think wished I had done was clean his teeth from a kitten!

Pleased Meeko is doing better 

Let's hope they are all going to do better..vet should call me tomorrow..am little bit nervous, but also keen to hear what she says..just hope we can get to bottom of it and can treat Riley..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I was same with Riley..checked eyes, ears,opened mouth etc..only think wished I had done was clean his teeth from a kitten!
> 
> Pleased Meeko is doing better
> 
> Let's hope they are all going to do better..vet should call me tomorrow..am little bit nervous, but also keen to hear what she says..just hope we can get to bottom of it and can treat Riley..


Everything crossed here for some positive news from your vet and a decision on what she intends to test the blood sample for.
Do you think it is to early to be hoping the a/bs may be helping meeko


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Everything crossed here for some positive news from your vet and a decision on what she intends to test the blood sample for.
> Do you think it is to early to be hoping the a/bs may be helping meeko


I have seen good reaction from them the first day so could well be the ab's helping!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have seen good reaction from them the first day so could well be the ab's helping!


Thanks Nicola,I dont know what I'm hoping for from the a/b's, If they help what will that mean in the long term,obviously he cant be on them for long 
Will it be a case of use when he has a flare up.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks Nicola,I dont know what I'm hoping for from the a/b's, If they help what will that mean in the long term,obviously he cant be on them for long
> Will it be a case of use when he has a flare up.


I have been told by one vet, they can use them on and off for a flare up, due to the anti inflamatory agents in them.


----------



## nicolaa123

Longest course from memory Riley has been on was three weeks and he was ok..just me that does not want him on forever!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Longest course from memory Riley has been on was three weeks and he was ok..just me that does not want him on forever!!


The course Meeko is on at the moment is 10 days so hopefully it will work some magic


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> The course Meeko is on at the moment is 10 days so hopefully it will work some magic


Ten days is a good length of time..remember tho Riley did have some symptoms after stopping them for a couple of days..so don't be worried if Meeko has same..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ten days is a good length of time..remember tho Riley did have some symptoms after stopping them for a couple of days..so don't be worried if Meeko has same..


Symptoms  What symptoms


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Symptoms  What symptoms


Well Riley had runny poo still, for little time..just thought Meeko not being sick at moment so should be ok..sorry for worry..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well Riley had runny poo still, for little time..just thought Meeko not being sick at moment so should be ok..sorry for worry..


Meeko is still on famotidine while on the a/bs so not sure how that will affect the result.I imagine he will need to be weaned of the famotidine after the a/b course is finished.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko is still on famotidine while on the a/bs so not sure how that will affect the result.I imagine he will need to be weaned of the famotidine after the a/b course is finished.


Not sure what I would stop first..thinking keep on ab's longer..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Not sure what I would stop first..thinking keep on ab's longer..


He is definitely on Famotidine until the a/b course is finished ,just not sure whether it will all stop at the same time or not.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He is definitely on Famotidine until the a/b course is finished ,just not sure whether it will all stop at the same time or not.


Gulp..I would air on side of caution, maybe taper one of them..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Gulp..I would air on side of caution, maybe taper one of them..


Will need to speak to vet about it,we havnt discussed what happens at the end of his a/b course.Famotidine is only an antacid so it can be stopped/started at any time.Still have the remainder of the bloodtest results to go through before I need to worry about the famotidine.
Bl**dy hell this is hard work


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Will need to speak to vet about it,we havnt discussed what happens at the end of his a/b course.Famotidine is only an antacid so it can be stopped/started at any time.Still have the remainder of the bloodtest results to go through before I need to worry about the famotidine.
> Bl**dy hell this is hard work


Yup..hard work indeed..still who else would have em??

Hoping blood tests are ok..


----------



## nicolaa123

Vet, just called..sending bloods off to test for epi and couple other things associated with the pancreas, results in 7 days..


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Vet, just called..sending bloods off to test for epi and couple other things associated with the pancreas, results in 7 days..


Glad they're looking into it and here's to hoping it's nothing serious!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Glad they're looking into it and here's to hoping it's nothing serious!!


I just hope they find some thing..so we can work on fixing him..otherwise he will waste away by the end of the year, there will be nothing left of him!!

Poor boy, I've just told him his bloods going on an aeroplane..he did not look too impressed..

He is feeling sorry for himself today..it's weird he looks like his coat is too big for him, if that makes sense.. We had a little play earlier but he was not that interested..

Hope everyone else's little ones are doing well today..


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh, forgot to say, I got phone call last night informing me I have won an award from work..a three day city break..:cryin: :cryin: :cryin: :cryin:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Vet, just called..sending bloods off to test for epi and couple other things associated with the pancreas, results in 7 days..





nicolaa123 said:


> I just hope they find some thing..so we can work on fixing him..otherwise he will waste away by the end of the year, there will be nothing left of him!!
> 
> Poor boy, I've just told him his bloods going on an aeroplane..he did not look too impressed..
> 
> He is feeling sorry for himself today..it's weird he looks like his coat is too big for him, if that makes sense.. We had a little play earlier but he was not that interested..
> 
> Hope everyone else's little ones are doing well today..


Poor Riley he sounds just like Meeko was last week.There was a point when he was curled up sleeping that he looked like a tiny cat in a big cats clothes.

So have the bloods really gone off to America for testing 



nicolaa123 said:


> Oh, forgot to say, I got phone call last night informing me I have won an award from work..a three day city break..:cryin: :cryin: :cryin: :cryin:


Bl**dy typical  Why could it not have been a case of expensive wine


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley he sounds just like Meeko was last week.There was a point when he was curled up sleeping that he looked like a tiny cat in a big cats clothes.
> 
> So have the bloods really gone off to America for testing
> 
> thats what she said Monday..I did not ask her today, I have to pop up there and drop off insurance form, so will ask again..
> 
> Bl**dy typical  Why could it not have been a case of expensive wine


Yeah, been thinking about it, would love to go as break would be fantastic..my friend offered to come and feed Riley..but he can be fed up to five times a day!! Plus if he escaped, he would not come back..oh I don't know what to do!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah, been thinking about it, *would love to go as break would be fantastic*..my friend offered to come and feed Riley..but he can be fed up to five times a day!! Plus if he escaped, he would not come back..oh I don't know what to do!!


Is it for a certain date or can you decide when to go.If you can pick a date it would be easier as you could fit it round Riley and his "issues"


----------



## Tao2

I love this forum! I am always trying to find excuses not to go away too far or for too long because I just worry myself sick about the cats. OH thinks I am insane, at least I'm not alone!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Is it for a certain date or can you decide when to go.If you can pick a date it would be easier as you could fit it round Riley and his "issues"


Not sure, should get my pack next week so will have a look! I'm just not comfortable leaving him to be honest..I know my friend will look after him as well as he can..but it's just not the same..


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I love this forum! I am always trying to find excuses not to go away too far or for too long because I just worry myself sick about the cats. OH thinks I am insane, at least I'm not alone!


I'm defiantly in the loony toons group


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Not sure, should get my pack next week so will have a look! I'm just not comfortable leaving him to be honest..I know my friend will look after him as well as he can..but it's just not the same..


I know what you mean,sods law says if something is going to go wrong ,it will when you are not there,"or at least thats what our heads tell us"


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm defiantly in the loony toons group


You are in very good company


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You are in very good company


Yup!!

How is Meeko today..still boinking..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yup!!
> 
> How is Meeko today..still boinking..


I was trying to avoid commenting  He is eating well,playing,bright and more importantly isnt lip licking ,Is this a coincidence  I hope not


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I was trying to avoid commenting  He is eating well,playing,bright and more importantly isnt lip licking ,Is this a coincidence  I hope not


Won't say anymore........obviously it's the boinking not the ab's


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Won't say anymore........obviously it's the boinking not the ab's


:thumbsup: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Matti

Ah Nicola- congrats on the prize, even though the city break isn't exactly what you wanted..... still an awesome achievement, and you never know, if you can fit it round Riley's routine, it might be just what you need- it's not going to help Riley any to have a stressed out mummy!! I know the feeling about not wanting to go away though- the OH keeps suggesting it, and keeps saying we can send Tom to stay with his mum- UH NO WAY!

Also, if you need anything, I'm only down the road as well, and I'm always popping into your neck of the woods to visit the 'rents anyway.

Poor Riley too  Hope he's feeling better today, poor little man- I know what you mean about the skin looking too big... because Tom is still missing half his fur, you can see his ribs at the moment, and so the rest of his fur and skin looks like he's wrapped in a coat that's too big for him  I really hope Riley perks up soon, you could do with a pick me up, and so could he 

Good news about Meeko- glad to see he's bright and bouncy, long may it continue 

Tom has actually managed to finish a full pouch of food for breakfast this morning, and yesterday I had to re-fill his bowl 3 times but it was still empty in the morning- I don't know what's got into him- maybe the enzymes make his food taste better, or he can genuinely feel the difference in himself?

No more dire rear now either, but instead they're grey.... I think it might be down to the fat in his food, as it might not be being broken down, but the vet can hopefully explain that to me.

He's peeing for england at the moment too- I forgot how much such a small thing can pee when on wet food- we're talking 5-6 MASSIVE pees a day- I'm running out of litter again already!

Still haven't got round to summarising the vet stuff- will deffo do it tonight- I am ignoring all family commitments for the next week just so I can actually have some time to myself! And to Pet Forums [And yes, I am technically supposed to be working right now, but no-one's in so sod it!]


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Ah Nicola- congrats on the prize, even though the city break isn't exactly what you wanted..... still an awesome achievement, and you never know, if you can fit it round Riley's routine, it might be just what you need- it's not going to help Riley any to have a stressed out mummy!! I know the feeling about not wanting to go away though- the OH keeps suggesting it, and keeps saying we can send Tom to stay with his mum- UH NO WAY!
> 
> Also, if you need anything, I'm only down the road as well, and I'm always popping into your neck of the woods to visit the 'rents anyway.
> 
> Poor Riley too  Hope he's feeling better today, poor little man- I know what you mean about the skin looking too big... because Tom is still missing half his fur, you can see his ribs at the moment, and so the rest of his fur and skin looks like he's wrapped in a coat that's too big for him  I really hope Riley perks up soon, you could do with a pick me up, and so could he
> 
> Good news about Meeko- glad to see he's bright and bouncy, long may it continue
> 
> Tom has actually managed to finish a full pouch of food for breakfast this morning, and yesterday I had to re-fill his bowl 3 times but it was still empty in the morning- I don't know what's got into him- maybe the enzymes make his food taste better, or he can genuinely feel the difference in himself?
> 
> No more dire rear now either, but instead they're grey.... I think it might be down to the fat in his food, as it might not be being broken down, but the vet can hopefully explain that to me.
> 
> He's peeing for england at the moment too- I forgot how much such a small thing can pee when on wet food- we're talking 5-6 MASSIVE pees a day- I'm running out of litter again already!
> 
> Still haven't got round to summarising the vet stuff- will deffo do it tonight- I am ignoring all family commitments for the next week just so I can actually have some time to myself! And to Pet Forums [And yes, I am technically supposed to be working right now, but no-one's in so sod it!]


Great news about Tom eating..he will feel so so much better getting some food into him..

Oh and I will post the food ....just forgot  have memory like goldfish!!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Great news about Tom eating..he will feel so so much better getting some food into him..
> 
> Oh and I will post the food ....just forgot  have memory like goldfish!!


Ah don't worry- you've had a lot on your mind!!!


----------



## Tao2

Matti, Don't know what litter Tom is on but can I recommend Okoplus Cats Best. It last for ages, it's clumping so you can just remove clumps, also is flushable and compostable so you don't have to fill your bin with stinking cat excrement. Also it doesn't stink like others I have tried. It is expensive but works out cheaper because it lasts so long. Sorry sorry, I know this isn't relavant to IBD sticky....
Grey poo :scared: So glad he's eating a bit better have been fretting about him.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Ah don't worry- you've had a lot on your mind!!!


Sending now..Riley helped me pack it 

Wonder where Riley has gone..


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Matti, Don't know what litter Tom is on but can I recommend Okoplus Cats Best. It last for ages, it's clumping so you can just remove clumps, also is flushable and compostable so you don't have to fill your bin with stinking cat excrement. Also it doesn't stink like others I have tried. It is expensive but works out cheaper because it lasts so long. Sorry sorry, I know this isn't relavant to IBD sticky....
> Grey poo :scared: So glad he's eating a bit better have been fretting about him.


I must look at litter choice..he currently uses waitrose micro granual litter..it clumps so well, probably not the most cheapest one to use!!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Sending now..Riley helped me pack it
> 
> Wonder where Riley has gone..


If he's managed to climb into the pack, don't worry, I'll look after him and return him straight away!! (after I've had a cuddle or two obviously!) 

Thanks for the advice re: litter. Tom just uses Sepicat antibacterial non-clumping litter, which is lightly scented, but boy does it soak up the pee!

I read some stuff about litter before I got Tom (remember, I've never had a cat before, so my apologies in advance for believing everything I read!) that said that clumping litter is bad for cats because it could get stuck to them, and then if they lick it, it could get in their insides and stuff?? I'm starting to think it's rubbish, but I picked non-clumping just incase, and also because it was what he used when he was living with his mum and siblings.

Also, if I decide to change (i''ve been given a bag of clumping litter by the neighbours as their cat died, and the bag was unopened), will he actually use it, or throw a poo protest? (i.e. do I need to change it slowly, mixing them up or anything).

SORRY I KNOW THIS ISN'T QUITE IBD RELATED.......but it kinda is since its to do with cats bottoms, and that's where the 'dire rear' comes from..... (clutching at straws!)


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> If he's managed to climb into the pack, don't worry, I'll look after him and return him straight away!! (after I've had a cuddle or two obviously!)
> 
> Thanks for the advice re: litter. Tom just uses Sepicat antibacterial non-clumping litter, which is lightly scented, but boy does it soak up the pee!
> 
> I read some stuff about litter before I got Tom (remember, I've never had a cat before, so my apologies in advance for believing everything I read!) that said that clumping litter is bad for cats because it could get stuck to them, and then if they lick it, it could get in their insides and stuff?? I'm starting to think it's rubbish, but I picked non-clumping just incase, and also because it was what he used when he was living with his mum and siblings.
> 
> Also, if I decide to change (i''ve been given a bag of clumping litter by the neighbours as their cat died, and the bag was unopened), will he actually use it, or throw a poo protest? (i.e. do I need to change it slowly, mixing them up or anything).
> 
> SORRY I KNOW THIS ISN'T QUITE IBD RELATED.......but it kinda is since its to do with cats bottoms, and that's where the 'dire rear' comes from..... (clutching at straws!)


Ha ha..

I used catsan for ages, before going onto the micro granual one..I did not mix it in, just changed it..Riley wee's in it quite happily..maybe get another tray and put some in, that way he can always use his other tray, if he does not like the other stuff!


----------



## nicolaa123

Just walked up to the vets, must be a good 6 mile round trip!! Handed in a claim form..asked where his blood tests have been sent to..they are in the uk


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just walked up to the vets, must be a good 6 mile round trip!! Handed in a claim form..asked where his blood tests have been sent to..they are in the uk


:lol::lol::lol: Who wasnt paying attention then


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :lol::lol::lol: Who wasnt paying attention then


Did i mention she is Austrian/German? It must be the accent  :nonod:

Have you had any blood tests results back yet?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Did i mention she is Austrian/German? It must be the accent  :nonod:
> 
> Have you had any blood tests results back yet?


All the bog standard ones are fine,liver/kidney ect Cholesterol a bit high,I think he said folate high,but not sure if he meant that it wasnt "low" pointing I think to anaemia,cobalamin not back yet and still waiting for LPI/TLI results,but so far there is nothing showing any thing to worry about.He kind of confused me lastnight with what he was saying about what was back and what wasnt  but I will get it all sorted once everything is back.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> All the bog standard ones are fine,liver/kidney ect Cholesterol a bit high,I think he said folate high,but not sure if he meant that it wasnt "low" pointing I think to anaemia,cobalamin not back yet and still waiting for LPI/TLI results,but so far there is nothing showing any thing to worry about.He kind of confused me lastnight with what he was saying about what was back and what wasnt  but I will get it all sorted once everything is back.


I wonder if they might suggest b12 injections? Did nothing for Riley, accept making him grumpy..but have read they can work really well..

When I spoke to my vet, she said to keep him on the metrondazole until we get the results back..also we can try some stronger steroids


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *I wonder if they might suggest b12 injections?* Did nothing for Riley, accept making him grumpy..but have read they can work really well..
> 
> When I spoke to my vet, she said to keep him on the metrondazole until we get the results back..also we can try some stronger steroids


Unless the cobalamin is "not as expected" I doubt it,I think it is "low folate" that points to anaemia.Meeko has till next thursday on Metronidazole and either an appointment or a phone call to vet on Friday so will see what he says then,unless of course there is a development before then


----------



## Cazzer

topping up the vibes for everyone in the club, cats and slaves 

Karlo is having an off day today. He's not eaten much [very unlike him]


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> topping up the vibes for everyone in the club, cats and slaves
> 
> Karlo is having an off day today. He's not eaten much [very unlike him]


that's not good as you say, unlike him not to eat..hope its just an off day for him and he gets his appetite back..


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> topping up the vibes for everyone in the club, cats and slaves
> 
> Karlo is having an off day today. He's not eaten much [very unlike him]


Thanks Cazzer  sorry to read that Karlo is having an off day.It seems to go in peaks and troughs doesnt it,they can be well for weeks and then suddenly have a bad spell


----------



## Cazzer

Thanks both x

I've just offered his RC with a dusting of fortiflora. He cannot resist that normally. he totally ignored it. I'm wondering if it is his teeth again. I gave them a few thrive previously and he went to eat one and sort of yelped and shot forward. I've made an appointment for the morning


----------



## Treaclesmum

Cazzer said:


> Thanks both x
> 
> I've just offered his RC with a dusting of fortiflora. He cannot resist that normally. he totally ignored it. I'm wondering if it is his teeth again. I gave them a few thrive previously and he went to eat one and sort of yelped and shot forward. I've made an appointment for the morning


Aw bless him! It really is an art form trying to balance teeth problems with a sensitive stomach as well - that has been a big part of Jumpy's problems I think!!

His teeth troubles seem to have stabilised on his daily dose of Logic, but at one stage I had to resort to Gourmet.... which obviously didn't help his belly 

If only all cat foods were painless going in AND painless coming out.......


----------



## Cazzer

yes I think you are right. I do try and remember to do the logic but with 8 cats occasionally I do forget and recently we have been so busy which hasn't helped. karlo's refused some applaws kitten now as well which is quite light in texture. Actually he's now eating some, but hardly any. Just hope it doesn't upset his tum


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> yes I think you are right. I do try and remember to do the logic but with 8 cats occasionally I do forget and recently we have been so busy which hasn't helped. karlo's refused some applaws kitten now as well which is quite light in texture. Actually he's now eating some, but hardly any. Just hope it doesn't upset his tum


Fingers crossed here for you..I found Riley reacted to logic..I check his teeth and one looks a bit iffy..but apart from trying to clean with just water and probably loosing my fingers..not sure what else to use..


----------



## Treaclesmum

Cazzer said:


> yes I think you are right. I do try and remember to do the logic but with 8 cats occasionally I do forget and recently we have been so busy which hasn't helped. karlo's refused some applaws kitten now as well which is quite light in texture. Actually he's now eating some, but hardly any. Just hope it doesn't upset his tum


I hope it helps him, I am sure Applaws will not upset him 

I've just ordered these 2 Zooplus foods for times when Jumpy needs a lighter texture (he has always found shredded chicken easy to eat when he gets gingivitis):-

Miamor Mild Meal wet cat food: Free P&P on orders of £19+ at zooplus

75g Thrive Complete, 5 + 1 Free | Free P&P orders £19+ at zooplus

They are both complete foods as well as being gentle on the tummy and good quality


----------



## Matti

Treaclesmum said:


> I hope it helps him, I am sure Applaws will not upset him
> 
> I've just ordered these 2 Zooplus foods for times when Jumpy needs a lighter texture (he has always found shredded chicken easy to eat when he gets gingivitis):-
> 
> Miamor Mild Meal wet cat food: Free P&P on orders of £19+ at zooplus
> 
> 75g Thrive Complete, 5 + 1 Free | Free P&P orders £19+ at zooplus
> 
> They are both complete foods as well as being gentle on the tummy and good quality


Oh do let me know how Jumpy is with the foods- I'm looking to change Tom's food once I get through the millions of boxes (only 6 left of the 20 ordered initially- no more bulk buying for me!) so I'd be really interested to see how Jumpy is with those since they're on my list for consideration.


----------



## Cazzer

Treaclesmum said:


> I hope it helps him, I am sure Applaws will not upset him


sadly it didn't help him. He barely ate a mouthful. he's hungry though and got me up at 4.30 to feed him. Of course he didn't eat anything.

Kassiopeia meanwhile has been sick about 5 times bringing up all of the applaws!


----------



## Cloudygirl

Well boo is fine I'm gradually getting him off the poached fish onto fish 4 cats then hopefully some wet food however cos bobs sulks if he doesn't get fish and boo does he has constipation poor boy I've given him tuna in sunflower oil this morning. I thought we were off to the vets as I thought he was weeing in his cat basket but then realised the poor boy was trying to poo in there he is very upright when he tries to poo and is straining so couldn't do it in the covered litter tray. He's obviously that tray conditioned that he thought basket was next best thing anyway whipped lid off the litter tray and the basket is safe hopefully we should get a good result in a couple of hours once the oil goes down. Cats!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> sadly it didn't help him. He barely ate a mouthful. he's hungry though and got me up at 4.30 to feed him. Of course he didn't eat anything.
> 
> Kassiopeia meanwhile has been sick about 5 times bringing up all of the applaws!


Oh no....dental check up then..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Well boo is fine I'm gradually getting him off the poached fish onto fish 4 cats then hopefully some wet food however cos bobs sulks if he doesn't get fish and boo does he has constipation poor boy I've given him tuna in sunflower oil this morning. I thought we were off to the vets as I thought he was weeing in his cat basket but then realised the poor boy was trying to poo in there he is very upright when he tries to poo and is straining so couldn't do it in the covered litter tray. He's obviously that tray conditioned that he thought basket was next best thing anyway whipped lid off the litter tray and the basket is safe hopefully we should get a good result in a couple of hours once the oil goes down. Cats!!!!


Hope you get some movement soon..


----------



## Cloudygirl

He's been a bit now so at least has calmed down and isn't doing the demented squatting poor thing. Have shut them both in the back of the house with tiled flooring as slightly worried I've given him too much oil and he might end up having the runs everywhere. Oh the joys of cats bums!!!!


----------



## buffie

Cazzer .How did Karlo get on at the vets.Hope he is feeling a bit better poor lad.


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> He's been a bit now so at least has calmed down and isn't doing the demented squatting poor thing. Have shut them both in the back of the house with tiled flooring as slightly worried I've given him too much oil and he might end up having the runs everywhere. Oh the joys of cats bums!!!!


Hope things in the "toilet" department have improved


----------



## buffie

Has anyone noticed any allergic reaction in their cats who have been on Metronidazole ?
Lastnight we had a "moment" with a tablet which didnt go down first time.
Poor Meeko looked like a rabid animal foaming at the mouth and dribbling all over the floor.Later in the evening he started scratching his face/head /neck damn near ripping his fur out.I phoned the emergency vet and she suggested before I brought him in I try a Piriton tablet,it calmed him down and he was a lot better but very quiet.This morning he was still very subdued so off we went to the vet.He checked him all over could as suspected,find nothing but gave him a short acting steroid just incase he was still itchy.
Have decided to give Meeko a break from the Metronidazole till Monday although vet is not convinced it is responsible.Any thoughts

I missed the forum party because of this


----------



## Cazzer

buffie said:


> Cazzer .How did Karlo get on at the vets.Hope he is feeling a bit better poor lad.


He's doing a bit better thanks Buffie. Vet said his gums were inflammed but not too bad, so she's not sure that it is his teeth or his tummy. He was very wriggly when she was trying to feel his tum but he does hate it being done now so acts up a bit even if normal. She's given him jabs and AB and pain killers and anti acid to go home with. I still think its his teeth though as when we got him back home he's eaten a pouch and a half of food which was a great improvement on yesterday. he was snatching the food from the bowl though which makes me think it is teeth. Got to take him back on Monday. He's a lot more playful than he has been as well.

we took Kassiopeia as well as she had been sick a few times and she's got anti acid and had a few jabs. She's been fast asleep since

Just before we left Kgosi was sick as well  He's been ok since thankfully!


----------



## Cazzer

sorry to hear about Meeko, no never had an experience like that with it. That must of been very frightening poor boy. Must have been awful for you to see him like that. How is he now????? x x


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Has anyone noticed any allergic reaction in their cats who have been on Metronidazole ?
> Lastnight we had a "moment" with a tablet which didnt go down first time.
> Poor Meeko looked like a rabid animal foaming at the mouth and dribbling all over the floor.Later in the evening he started scratching his face/head /neck damn near ripping his fur out.I phoned the emergency vet and she suggested before I brought him in I try a Piriton tablet,it calmed him down and he was a lot better but very quiet.This morning he was still very subdued so off we went to the vet.He checked him all over could as suspected,find nothing but gave him a short acting steroid just incase he was still itchy.
> Have decided to give Meeko a break from the Metronidazole till Monday although vet is not convinced it is responsible.Any thoughts
> 
> I missed the forum party because of this


Ah I wondered where you was..

As for metrondazole..took me 2 attempts last night, as he kept moving his tongue..it does make him froth at the mouth if I don't get it right to the back of his throat and spits it back out..can't think tho it has made him itchy..but thinking about it, he was cleaning a bit more last night, but not to an extent I was worried..

Maybe it was the taste that drove Meeko bit crazy and itching was only way to let off steam?

Guess the only way to really know is give him another one..sods law it's the weekend tho!!


----------



## buffie

I thought it was bad with just the one  you have had a time of it hope everyone is okay.

Meeko's still very quiet,not interested in anything but is eating small amounts and although having the odd scratch nothing like lastnight,that was scary to watch I was convinced he wasnt going to stop until he made a hole in himself.He does seem to be a very sensitive soul,he is even allergic to hibiscrub


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> He's doing a bit better thanks Buffie. Vet said his gums were inflammed but not too bad, so she's not sure that it is his teeth or his tummy. He was very wriggly when she was trying to feel his tum but he does hate it being done now so acts up a bit even if normal. She's given him jabs and AB and pain killers and anti acid to go home with. I still think its his teeth though as when we got him back home he's eaten a pouch and a half of food which was a great improvement on yesterday. he was snatching the food from the bowl though which makes me think it is teeth. Got to take him back on Monday. He's a lot more playful than he has been as well.
> 
> we took Kassiopeia as well as she had been sick a few times and she's got anti acid and had a few jabs. She's been fast asleep since
> 
> Just before we left Kgosi was sick as well  He's been ok since thankfully!


Pleased to hear he is doing better..does sound like teeth  hopefully they all start to improve..


----------



## Cazzer

having googled it seems that some of the rarer side effects of it in people include nausea, vomiting and itching........


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah I wondered where you was..
> 
> As for metrondazole..took me 2 attempts last night, as he kept moving his tongue..it does make him froth at the mouth if I don't get it right to the back of his throat and spits it back out..can't think tho it has made him itchy..but thinking about it, he was cleaning a bit more last night, but not to an extent I was worried..
> 
> Maybe it was the taste that drove Meeko bit crazy and itching was only way to let off steam?
> 
> *Guess the only way to really know is give him another one..sods law it's the weekend tho*!!


I was really lucky,the vet on duty today was Meeko's vet(there are 5 different vets who take it in rotation between 3 surgeries.
He was happy for me stop till monday and then restart just incase it does kick off again over the w/end.As I just posted above he is a sensitive soul he's even allergic to hibiscrub


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> having googled it seems that some of the rarer side effects of it in people include nausea, vomiting and itching........


I had seen that but Scott my vet said he has never seen a reaction in a cat before but then this is Meeko


----------



## Cazzer

Karlo meanwhile has been mithering for more food. He's scoffing another half sachet! 

Buffie, didn't realise that Meeko was such a sensitive soul in terms of allergies. I always think Karlo is as well [but sensitive as in changes of routines upsetting him].


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I was really lucky,the vet on duty today was Meeko's vet(there are 5 different vets who take it in rotation between 3 surgeries.
> He was happy for me stop till monday and then restart just incase it does kick off again over the w/end.As I just posted above he is a sensitive soul he's even allergic to hibiscrub


Poor boy..I think there is an alternative to metronidazole, but can't remember the name now..it's a shame tho as it is a good drug..

Hope he feels better soon..


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Karlo meanwhile has been mithering for more food. He's scoffing another half sachet!
> 
> Buffie, didn't realise that Meeko was such a sensitive soul in terms of allergies. I always think Karlo is as well [but sensitive as in changes of routines upsetting him].


Good news on the food front :thumbsup:Hope Karlo keeps it up 

He is an odd cat  Most things dont faze him at all,but being fiddled with too often at the vets does usually lead to a runny bum,he is a tart in the surgery though rolling around on the floor,inspecting everywhere in the surgery and rarely gets stroppy.He isnt allergic,as far as we know to many things but does seem to be allergic to random stuff and boy when he reacts it is usually severe.He was for example very unwell after his booster 18 months ago so he is on the 3 year regime now.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good news on the food front :thumbsup:Hope Karlo keeps it up
> 
> He is an odd cat  Most things dont faze him at all,but being fiddled with too often at the vets does usually lead to a runny bum,he is a tart in the surgery though rolling around on the floor,inspecting everywhere in the surgery and rarely gets stroppy.He isnt allergic,as far as we know to many things but does seem to be allergic to random stuff and boy when he reacts it is usually severe.He was for example very unwell after his booster 18 months ago so he is on the 3 year regime now.


You could ask Scott about lowering the dose, come Monday?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You could ask Scott about lowering the dose, come Monday?


I'll see how it goes with his first one on Monday morning,if he doesnt react then it may well not have been the meds that set him off,although having said that he has been slightly "over-grooming" all week


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I'll see how it goes with his first one on Monday morning,if he doesnt react then it may well not have been the meds that set him off,although having said that he has been slightly "over-grooming" all week


Sounds like a reaction then..

Riley has been brighter again today..sat on the windowsill pigeon hunting!! Well making that funny chatter noise in their direction


----------



## noire

Hi all!
I am a new member and I posted yesterday about a possible IBD cat (http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/294754-cat-possible-ibd.html),Cashmere will have a blood test and scan on Tuesday...
I hope for the best..
Btw *nicolaa123* I really smiled about your last post, so happy it s a good day for Riley!


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Has anyone noticed any allergic reaction in their cats who have been on Metronidazole ?
> Lastnight we had a "moment" with a tablet which didnt go down first time.
> Poor Meeko looked like a rabid animal foaming at the mouth and dribbling all over the floor.Later in the evening he started scratching his face/head /neck damn near ripping his fur out.I phoned the emergency vet and she suggested before I brought him in I try a Piriton tablet,it calmed him down and he was a lot better but very quiet.This morning he was still very subdued so off we went to the vet.He checked him all over could as suspected,find nothing but gave him a short acting steroid just incase he was still itchy.
> Have decided to give Meeko a break from the Metronidazole till Monday although vet is not convinced it is responsible.Any thoughts
> 
> I missed the forum party because of this


No but boo had the liquid form not sure that makes any difference?


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> No but boo had the liquid form not sure that makes any difference?


I hope that doesnt taste as vile as the tablet does


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> I hope that doesnt taste as vile as the tablet does


Well trying to syringe it into him was one of the worst 10 days of my life having it spat into your ace by an angry puss is not good!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

noire said:


> Hi all!
> I am a new member and I posted yesterday about a possible IBD cat (http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/294754-cat-possible-ibd.html),Cashmere will have a blood test and scan on Tuesday...
> I hope for the best..
> Btw *nicolaa123* I really smiled about your last post, so happy it s a good day for Riley!


thanks..have they done a stool sample as yet..if not I would call them and ask about taking one in with you. I had to take a pooled stool sample over several days..so best to ask them what they would prefer!! It is also worth calling them and asking for an endescopy as they can then have a good look at her insides as well as the scan from the outside. Plus its easier to do both at once..

Hope you are insured as the tests can get quite costly..


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> Well trying to syringe it into him was one of the worst 10 days of my life having it spat into your ace by an angry puss is not good!!!


I find it much easier to use the liquid form- I normally syringe it straight into the back to his throat then hold Tom's mouth closed between my thumb and forefinger- he'll then swallow very quickly so minimises the spitting!!

With regards to the tablets, if he isn't swallowing, have you tried rubbing on the throat? Encourages the swallowing motion.

Tom has been stuffing his face for the last two days, so much so that I'm having to ration his food because I know EPI makes animals ravenous since they are t absorbing the food properly... I don't want him stuffing his face and being sick :S

Nicola, quick question as an aside- how long does that food last for if it's in a sealed box in the fridge, out if interest?


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I find it much easier to use the liquid form- I normally syringe it straight into the back to his throat then hold Tom's mouth closed between my thumb and forefinger- he'll then swallow very quickly so minimises the spitting!!
> 
> With regards to the tablets, if he isn't swallowing, have you tried rubbing on the throat? Encourages the swallowing motion.
> 
> Tom has been stuffing his face for the last two days, so much so that I'm having to ration his food because I know EPI makes animals ravenous since they are t absorbing the food properly... I don't want him stuffing his face and being sick :S
> 
> Nicola, quick question as an aside- how long does that food last for if it's in a sealed box in the fridge, out if interest?


I keep in fridge for two days, riley has the 400g tins, so half one day and half the next..possibly could go three days if sealed in a box, not sure tho as never kept longer than two days..


----------



## Cazzer

so hows everyone today?


----------



## chillminx

nicolaa123 said:


> I keep in fridge for two days, riley has the 400g tins, so half one day and half the next..possibly could go three days if sealed in a box, not sure tho as never kept longer than two days..


Yes, I have kept the Vet Concept tinned food for 3 days, in the fridge. I always decant it straight away into a sealed tupperware box, and it seems fine.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> so hows everyone today?


Not bad..he has eaten well again..so far been good few days with out back end problems..tho I'm sure now I've said that.....

Should get his test results back hopefully on Wednesday..

I am tempted to buy some baby scales, but I also think I could get obsessed with checking his weight!!


----------



## buffie

Meeko is still scratching and grooming more than usual,beginning to think this could be stress linked.Have plugged the feliway back in and ordered another refill + a "Pet Rescue" diffuser to see if that is better.
Maybe he is molting and it is making him itchy 
Is quieter than usual and not eating a lot
I cant go back to the vet poor guy will be thinking I'm stalking him 

Nicola Good to read that Riley is doing well,but know what you mean about "speaking too soon"

Cazzer hope Karlo and the rest of the furbies are doing well.


----------



## Matti

Okay 3 days re: food is good although Tom should be able to get through a tin in 2 days.

Glad to hear Riley has perked up, and hoping it continues 

As for Meeko, I really don't know what to suggest- I have a friend who's dog reacts (scratching and itching) in remarkably the same way to Meeko, and after much testing, they discovered it was dust mites setting him off. [please don't think I'm saying your house is dusty though!!] but I'm just wondering, is there any chance it's an allergy which is made worse when the house is warmer/has the heating on [dust mites got worse because heating in the winter made it a breeding ground]??

My house currently looks like a drug dealers den- I need to get some micro scales for Tom's enzymes because at the moment there are the insides of the capsules everywhere!! Blood test tomorrow though, time to see if the toxaplasmosis has gone....


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Okay 3 days re: food is good although Tom should be able to get through a tin in 2 days.
> 
> Glad to hear Riley has perked up, and hoping it continues
> 
> As for Meeko, I really don't know what to suggest- I have a friend who's dog reacts (scratching and itching) in remarkably the same way to Meeko, and after much testing, they discovered it was dust mites setting him off.* [please don't think I'm saying your house is dusty though!!] *but I'm just wondering, is there any chance it's an allergy which is made worse when the house is warmer/has the heating on [dust mites got worse because heating in the winter made it a breeding ground]??
> 
> My house currently looks like a drug dealers den- I need to get some micro scales for Tom's enzymes because at the moment there are the insides of the capsules everywhere!! Blood test tomorrow though, time to see if the toxaplasmosis has gone....


:lol::lol: House work is not one of my passions in life  
I dont know enough about allergies but I dont think it is too likely to be dust mites.He had an episode back in September with scratching which lasted a couple of days and that was it until this episode on Friday night.He has had a stressful week with vet visits/blood tests/new drugs so it is going to be a bit of guess work at the moment to find the cause.

Good luck with the blood tests


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko is still scratching and grooming more than usual,beginning to think this could be stress linked.Have plugged the feliway back in and ordered another refill + a "Pet Rescue" diffuser to see if that is better.
> Maybe he is molting and it is making him itchy
> Is quieter than usual and not eating a lot
> *I cant go back to the vet poor guy will be thinking I'm stalking him *
> 
> Nicola Good to read that Riley is doing well,but know what you mean about "speaking too soon"
> 
> Cazzer hope Karlo and the rest of the furbies are doing well.


Guess it depends on how easy on the eye he is!! 

Could be moulting, have noticed Riley is in need of furminating!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Okay 3 days re: food is good although Tom should be able to get through a tin in 2 days.
> 
> Glad to hear Riley has perked up, and hoping it continues
> 
> As for Meeko, I really don't know what to suggest- I have a friend who's dog reacts (scratching and itching) in remarkably the same way to Meeko, and after much testing, they discovered it was dust mites setting him off. [please don't think I'm saying your house is dusty though!!] but I'm just wondering, is there any chance it's an allergy which is made worse when the house is warmer/has the heating on [dust mites got worse because heating in the winter made it a breeding ground]??
> 
> My house currently looks like a drug dealers den- I need to get some micro scales for Tom's enzymes because at the moment there are the insides of the capsules everywhere!! Blood test tomorrow though, time to see if the toxaplasmosis has gone....


Hope all goes well with the blood tests..

Good to hear he is eating more


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :lol::lol: House work is not one of my passions in life
> I dont know enough about allergies but I dont think it is too likely to be dust mites.He had an episode back in September with scratching which lasted a couple of days and that was it until this episode on Friday night.He has had a stressful week with vet visits/blood tests/new drugs so it is going to be a bit of guess work at the moment to find the cause.
> 
> Good luck with the blood tests


Could be a combination of all of them..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Could be a combination of all of them..


or non of them   We may never know what set him off


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> or non of them   We may never know what set him off


Which is the wonderful thing about these cats :ihih::ihih:


----------



## Cazzer

Typed out long response and Kassiopeia deleted it 

Buffie sorry to hear Meeko is still scratching. Kyrre is having a flare up of his hot beetroot red ears at the moment. We've never got to the bottom of what causes it but vet thinks food but could be mites etc. Hope it settles down soon for him soon.

Nicola fingers crossed Riley continues with a good long spell of eating and no dire rear 

Matti fingers crossed for Tom's blood test

Karlo meanwhile is ok. Still convinced it is his teeth. had to start tablets this am and he hissed at me as I opened his mouth. Most unlike him. Also letting him eat out of the new German food bowls I got this week seems to help. I can see me getting more of them


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Typed out long response and Kassiopeia deleted it
> 
> Buffie sorry to hear Meeko is still scratching. Kyrre is having a flare up of his hot beetroot red ears at the moment. We've never got to the bottom of what causes it but vet thinks food but could be mites etc. Hope it settles down soon for him soon.
> 
> Nicola fingers crossed Riley continues with a good long spell of eating and no dire rear
> 
> Matti fingers crossed for Tom's blood test
> 
> Karlo meanwhile is ok. Still convinced it is his teeth. had to start tablets this am and he hissed at me as I opened his mouth. Most unlike him. Also letting him eat out of the new German food bowls I got this week seems to help. I can see me getting more of them


Oh can we see pictures of the new bowls!!

Pleased your ones seem to be on the mend..long may it continue!!


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Typed out long response and Kassiopeia deleted it
> 
> Buffie sorry to hear Meeko is still scratching. Kyrre is having a flare up of his hot beetroot red ears at the moment. We've never got to the bottom of what causes it but vet thinks food but could be mites etc. Hope it settles down soon for him soon.
> 
> Nicola fingers crossed Riley continues with a good long spell of eating and no dire rear
> 
> Matti fingers crossed for Tom's blood test
> 
> Karlo meanwhile is ok. Still convinced it is his teeth. had to start tablets this am and he hissed at me as I opened his mouth. Most unlike him. Also letting him eat out of the new German food bowls I got this week seems to help. I can see me getting more of them


Poor Kyrre hope his ears settle down soon  
Good to read that Karlo is doing okay,not so good that his teeth may be causing a problem though.


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh can we see pictures of the new bowls!!


I bought some of these in anthracite to match their cream/anthracite fountain. I know from my own experience my heart burn is worse when I bend down so I thought these might help with Karlo's IBD, given most bowls make them eat in a lower position. He's eaten more from this today than he had with his usual bowl. My OH thought this morning that his old bowl he was struggling to eat from

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...ategory_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I bought some of these in anthracite to match their cream/anthracite fountain. I know from my own experience my heart burn is worse when I bend down so I thought these might help with Karlo's IBD, given most bowls make them eat in a lower position. He's eaten more from this today than he had with his usual bowl. My OH thought this morning that his old bowl he was struggling to eat from
> 
> www.keramik-im-hof.de/joomla-3/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84 - Translator


Can only get half that site to load ....good point about eating lower down..I might raise Riley's bowl see if that helps


----------



## Cazzer

www.keramik-im-hof.de/joomla-3/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84 - Translator

hopefully this time!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> www.keramik-im-hof.de/joomla-3/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84 - Translator
> 
> hopefully this time!


This one worked. http://www.keramik-im-hof.de/joomla...=56&pop=1&tmpl=component&=0&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1

Looks rather good!!


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> I bought some of these in anthracite to match their cream/anthracite fountain. I know from my own experience my heart burn is worse when I bend down *so I thought these might help with Karlo's IBD, given most bowls make them eat in a lower position*. He's eaten more from this today than he had with his usual bowl. My OH thought this morning that his old bowl he was struggling to eat from
> 
> www.keramik-im-hof.de/joomla-3/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84 - Translator


I tried raising Meeko's bowls a while back ,( forgot about that) didnt see a difference back then but will give it another go.We need all the help we can get to beat this.


----------



## Tao2

Cazzer said:


> Typed out long response and Kassiopeia deleted it
> 
> Buffie sorry to hear Meeko is still scratching. Kyrre is having a flare up of his hot beetroot red ears at the moment. We've never got to the bottom of what causes it but vet thinks food but could be mites etc. Hope it settles down soon for him soon.


Cazzer, I was interested to read about the red hot ears, as Mittens gets this too when she's having a reaction. In fact if she is ever listless, I feel her ears and if they are normal temp., I know she is fine and just having a nap. If red hot, I know trouble is coming.....I always assumed that the food reaction elevated her temperature hence hot ears?? Does Kyrre have other symptoms simultaneously?


----------



## noire

really bad day today,
Cashmere refused to eat any of the dry since yesterday so I did her some boiled chicken, yesterday it seemed fine though today she had yellow dhiarrea in the morning and she vomited the chicken tonight twice, a short break from one vomit to the other, at the second I got really scared cause she hid under a kitchen cabinet and when i got her out she was shaking and didn t look herself.
I took a syringe to get water into her as I feared dehydration.She s lost some weight.I m contemplating of bringing her tomorrow early to the vet instead of vaiting for Tuesday.I will try to boil her other chicken and give her that in little portions as maybe she was eating much with too much haste...


----------



## nicolaa123

noire said:


> really bad day today,
> Cashmere refused to eat any of the dry since yesterday so I did her some boiled chicken, yesterday it seemed fine though today she had yellow dhiarrea in the morning and she vomited the chicken tonight twice, a short break from one vomit to the other, at the second I got really scared cause she hid under a kitchen cabinet and when i got her out she was shaking and didn t look herself.
> I took a syringe to get water into her as I feared dehydration.She s lost some weight.I m contemplating of bringing her tomorrow early to the vet instead of vaiting for Tuesday.I will try to boil her other chicken and give her that in little portions as maybe she was eating much with too much haste...


Oh no..I would call vet in morning and see what they say..

Hope all ok..

Try her with some of the chicken broth too


----------



## Cazzer

Tao2 said:


> Cazzer, I was interested to read about the red hot ears, as Mittens gets this too when she's having a reaction. In fact if she is ever listless, I feel her ears and if they are normal temp., I know she is fine and just having a nap. If red hot, I know trouble is coming.....I always assumed that the food reaction elevated her temperature hence hot ears?? Does Kyrre have other symptoms simultaneously?


Tao2 Kyrre doesn't have IBD or any other symptoms, its really only the redness and the burning that he gets. If its really bad its spreads over his face and affects his eyes as well making the lids red and puffy. Vet has told me that with Karlo who reacts explosively to food that it does raise his temperature

Noire sorry to hear Cashmere is having a bad time


----------



## buffie

Thats the last of Meeko's blood results back.....TLI is normal :thumbsup: So no change since the last set of bloods done last year.
Will discuss way forward with vet on Friday,he says there are still many options of meds to try yet so if the metronidazole doesnt help we still have options.
Hope everyones cats are doing well.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thats the last of Meeko's blood results back.....TLI is normal :thumbsup: So no change since the last set of bloods done last year.
> Will discuss way forward with vet on Friday,he says there are still many options of meds to try yet so if the metronidazole doesnt help we still have options.
> Hope everyones cats are doing well.


Excellent news!! Be interested in what meds they suggest.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Excellent news!! Be interested in what meds they suggest.


He did mention some last week but I wasnt really paying attention,he has a habit of wandering off in thought ,mid conversation,so best to wait till we are discussing specifics


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He did mention some last week but I wasnt really paying attention,he has a habit of wandering off in thought ,mid conversation,so best to wait till we are discussing specifics


Very true..

Have you started the metronidazole again?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Very true..
> 
> Have you started the metronidazole again?


Yep started this morning,he has just had his second one a few minutes ago.Both went in without any trouble,he has been slightly "over grooming" but nothing like Friday night so will just need to wait and see


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yep started this morning,he has just had his second one a few minutes ago.Both went in without any trouble,he has been slightly "over grooming" but nothing like Friday night so will just need to wait and see


Here is to an itch free night!! I have not given Riley his flea stuff in light of his blood test results..I'm paranoid about fleas.. It's been 7 weeks now, the most I will stretch is six weeks during winter months..

I have a flea comb and have been using it..no signs of fleas or dirt, but he has been bit itchy tonight..I'm paranoid as the weather has got milder..but have been advised not to de-flea until we get results back.. I hate fleas!!


----------



## buffie

He's just had a good"scratch" at his head/ears and is washing his paws a lot,but has gone back to sleep  I.m looking for scratching so maybe seeing it more than usual.
When do you hope to get the results back.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He's just had a good"scratch" at his head/ears and is washing his paws a lot,but has gone back to sleep  I.m looking for scratching so maybe seeing it more than usual.
> When do you hope to get the results back.


Hopefully Wednesday..I know he has not got fleas, but normally I de-flea once a month..so I'm feeling paranoid  hate fleas and tics :incazzato:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He's just had a good"scratch" at his head/ears and is washing his paws a lot,but has gone back to sleep  I.m looking for scratching so maybe seeing it more than usual.
> When do you hope to get the results back.


Forgot to add..I'm looking for scratching too! Still makes change from looking at his :ciappa:


----------



## buffie

I've only once had a cat that was "outdoor" Bumble the semi-feral who lived in a shed for a couple of years before he finally moved into the house.For the first year or so we could get nowhere near him,never mind check/treat for fleas and when he was really ill with an abscess and just had to be caught and treated we were amazed to find that he was totally flea free  Well the vet checked while he was knocked out ,they removed his bits at the same time as sorting out the abscess


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've only once had a cat that was "outdoor" Bumble the semi-feral who lived in a shed for a couple of years before he finally moved into the house.For the first year or so we could get nowhere near him,never mind check/treat for fleas and when he was really ill with an abscess and just had to be caught and treated we were amazed to find that he was totally flea free  Well the vet checked while he was knocked out ,they removed his bits at the same time as sorting out the abscess


It's i think, my years looking after hedgehogs..they mainly (but not always) have fleas..and they get killed with rid-mite!! Just makes me shiver..

I'm sure Riley will be ok for another few days 

Lets hope he can be flea free like bumble (great name btw)


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It's i think, my years looking after hedgehogs..they mainly (but not always) have fleas..and they get killed with rid-mite!! Just makes me shiver..
> 
> I'm sure Riley will be ok for another few days
> 
> Lets hope he can be flea free like bumble (great name btw)


He was called Bumble because he was a little "B" with a sting in his tail


----------



## Tao2

Am reading this and it's making me itch!! :rolleyes5:


----------



## buffie

Well after a scratchy/feet washing/biting night lastnight I decided to stop Meeko's Metronidazole and he seems much better.Hardly a scratch and no frantic feet chewing  Coincidence ?I dont think so


----------



## Cloudygirl

maybe that's an allergy then?

Mine are both ok today touch wood. They did tandem litter tray pooing this morning which was not pleasant at all - very random but hey at least they both went ok.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Well after a scratchy/feet washing/biting night lastnight I decided to stop Meeko's Metronidazole and he seems much better.Hardly a scratch and no frantic feet chewing  Coincidence ?I dont think so


Sorry for late reply been up a&e with my friends little girl who hurt her finger chasing a boy  she is 9!! After 3 hours and an x-ray all is ok..that's what you get for chasing boys!!

Sounds like it definitely was the metronidazole, pleased he is doing better on the itch front with out it 

Oh and was also catching up on the drama on the forum!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for late reply been up a&e with my friends little girl who hurt her finger chasing a boy  she is 9!! After 3 hours and an x-ray all is ok..that's what you get for chasing boys!!
> 
> Sounds like it definitely was the metronidazole, pleased he is doing better on the itch front with out it
> 
> Oh and was also catching up on the drama on the forum!!


Oops hope she is okay.Hope the boy was worth it


----------



## Tao2

Is irritating if he is allergic to metronidazole as is so useful.

What drama? I always miss it, will go and seek it out...


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oops hope she is okay.Hope the boy was worth it


I can't keep up with which boy is in or out!! She is fine..but very late to bed


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Is irritating if he is allergic to metronidazole as is so useful.
> 
> What drama? I always miss it, will go and seek it out...


you won't need to look far..maybe next door!!


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> you won't need to look far..maybe next door!!


Wish I'd never found it now...have been caught up in it and done much time wasting!

Mittens, on the other hand, managed to nick some breakfast cereal with milk this morning. First pillage she has done in a long time, I hoped she had left those ways behind. I am expecting trouble from one end or the other.....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Wish I'd never found it now...have been caught up in it and done much time wasting!
> 
> *yeah just been reading..*
> 
> Mittens, on the other hand, managed to nick some breakfast cereal with milk this morning. First pillage she has done in a long time, I hoped she had left those ways behind. I am expecting trouble from one end or the other.....


Hope it's not too explosive ....


----------



## nicolaa123

I hate waiting for results..might just give vet call see if they are back..


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok the results came back today..katrin (my vet) not there until this evening  have to wait..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok the results came back today..katrin (my vet) not there until this evening  have to wait..


Good luck with the results,hope there is nothing lurking that wasnt there before ,unless of course it is something easier to sort out than this damn IBD


----------



## Tao2

Yes, hope results OK Nicola, please let us know.

So far no explosion from Mittens but the 'sick lick' has reappeared which hasn't been seen in a while.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Yes, hope results OK Nicola, please let us know.
> 
> So far no explosion from Mittens but the 'sick lick' has reappeared which hasn't been seen in a while.


"Liking" the lack of explosion :arf: not the return of the "sick lick" I know that one only too well


----------



## Matti

Hope the results are okay Nicola!!

Glad Mittens hasn't had any explosions yet Tao, and very much hoping that there are no sick piles either!!

Also, glad Meeko has stopped the scratching/biting, but it's a strange reaction to the metonidazole... although in humans it can cause "warmth or redness/soreness to the skin" so maybe it's not such a stretch to link the two.

Tom is... well Tom. His stools are becoming more and more interesting really- first bit is dark and hard, then it gets paler in colour and finally ends in tan brown and squashed up. I assume this is down to the enzumes, I mentioned it when he went in for his blood test on Monday and apparently it's all a waiting game now, just see how he reacts to the enzymes and then increase it and increase it until it works.

Vet told me that the pharma companies have noticed that cats have to take upto triple the dose of dogs the same size to make the enzymes work in some ccases- mad!!

Anyway, vet is pleased with Tom's progress overall- he has grown again since he last saw him, which was the main worry, and he weighs 1.6kg, so has steadily put on weight, although not much. He's still tiny and skinny for his age though.

Just have to wait for the bloods to come back now- fingers crossed the toxo has gone at least!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

I don't want to harass her..but hope she does call tonight..

Hope mittens feels better soon..maybe a bland meal tonight to help settle things..


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Hope the results are okay Nicola!!
> 
> Glad Mittens hasn't had any explosions yet Tao, and very much hoping that there are no sick piles either!!
> 
> Also, glad Meeko has stopped the scratching/biting, but it's a strange reaction to the metonidazole... although in humans it can cause "warmth or redness/soreness to the skin" so maybe it's not such a stretch to link the two.
> 
> Tom is... well Tom. His stools are becoming more and more interesting really- first bit is dark and hard, then it gets paler in colour and finally ends in tan brown and squashed up. I assume this is down to the enzumes, I mentioned it when he went in for his blood test on Monday and apparently it's all a waiting game now, just see how he reacts to the enzymes and then increase it and increase it until it works.
> 
> Vet told me that the pharma companies have noticed that cats have to take upto triple the dose of dogs the same size to make the enzymes work in some ccases- mad!!
> 
> Anyway, vet is pleased with Tom's progress overall- he has grown again since he last saw him, which was the main worry, and he weighs 1.6kg, so has steadily put on weight, although not much. He's still tiny and skinny for his age though.
> 
> Just have to wait for the bloods to come back now- fingers crossed the toxo has gone at least!!!


Fingers crossed bloods come back clear!! It's not normal to explore poo is it??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I don't want to harass her..but hope she does call tonight..
> 
> Hope mittens feels better soon..maybe a bland meal tonight to help settle things..


Harass my ass ,she knows you are waiting for them so I would phone her again.When does the surgery close I would give her till 15 minutes before and call again,but then I'm an impatient b*gger Hope she calls soon


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Harass my ass ,she knows you are waiting for them so I would phone her again.When does the surgery close I would give her till 15 minutes before and call again,but then I'm an impatient b*gger Hope she calls soon


She said she would call..not sure when her shift starts..but know she will probably, be there until very late..also the receptionist put a note on there to say that I had called


----------



## nicolaa123

Vet just called. Bloods were all normal, epi normal nothing at all..

So he is booked in for another scan on Friday morning as she is bit concerned about the lymph node that she felt last week..

She spoke about if there is a change they will do biopsies and possibly open him up and have a look inside as well.

She spoke about lymphoma, but as he is young cat..she is not sure..she is concerned that he is loosing weight, still diarrhoea. She said we can rule out food intolerance as we have done enough there to rule it out. So who knows what it could be.

She also said she is not convinced that the blood is from the polyp either.

We had good chat about it all.

I'm still close to tears tho..sorry


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Vet just called. Bloods were all normal, epi normal nothing at all..
> 
> So he is booked in for another scan on Friday morning as she is bit concerned about the lymph node that she felt last week..
> 
> She spoke about if there is a change they will do biopsies and possibly open him up and have a look inside as well.
> 
> She spoke about lymphoma, but as he is young cat..she is not sure..she is concerned that he is loosing weight, still diarrhoea. She said we can rule out food intolerance as we have done enough there to rule it out. So who knows what it could be.
> 
> She also said she is not convinced that the blood is from the polyp either.
> 
> We had good chat about it all.
> 
> I'm still close to tears tho..sorry


Oh so sorry to read that it is not such great news,.I dont know anything about lymphoma but wouldnt there be something showing in the bloods if there was a problem.
Hope it doesnt come to him being opened up,but if it will finally give a diagnosis I suppose it has to be done,maybe the scan will show something that can be treated without surgery.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh so sorry to read that it is not such great news,.I dont know anything about lymphoma but wouldnt there be something showing in the bloods if there was a problem.
> Hope it doesnt come to him being opened up,but if it will finally give a diagnosis I suppose it has to be done,maybe the scan will show something that can be treated without surgery.


It's good news in as much as not epi..but he is still a mystery to them..think the bloods in the end were just epi and colobum (sp) and something else..can't think now.

She seems to be concerned with the lymph node now and the blood from his bum as that has been getting more now and his weight loss.

I don't know there is something going on and she said it could still be ibd :cursing:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It's good news in as much as not epi..but he is still a mystery to them..think the bloods in the end were just epi and colobum (sp) and something else..can't think now.
> 
> She seems to be concerned with the lymph node now and the blood from his bum as that has been getting more now and his weight loss.
> 
> I don't know there is something going on and she said it could still be ibd :cursing:


You would think there should be some way to diagnose IBD rather than just by guess work


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You would think there should be some way to diagnose IBD rather than just by guess work


Or opening them up!!

She did talk about large and small intestine and colon..but I was bit phased by it all over the phone..you know what I'm like!!

I'm not looking forward to taking him Friday, I asked if I can get him Friday evening and she said hopefully..I need to stop thinking about this now!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Or opening them up!!
> 
> She did talk about large and small intestine and colon..but I was bit phased by it all over the phone..you know what I'm like!!
> 
> I'm not looking forward to taking him Friday, I asked if I can get him Friday evening and she said hopefully..I need to stop thinking about this now!!


I will be thinking positive thoughts for you both on Friday and keeping paws crossed the scan is all that is needed xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I will be thinking positive thoughts for you both on Friday and keeping paws crossed the scan is all that is needed xx


Thank you..

I can't even begin to tell Riley ( I know that sounds odd) with out welling up..:crying:


----------



## nicolaa123

For ianthi

Last scan showed..the granulomatous polyp, his liver was slightly rounded and some thickness seen in intestines, inflammation and redness seen. Kidney was ok
This was the histopathology.

Three of four sections are composed multiple irregular fragments of rectal mucosa and laminate propria. The mucosa is compose regularly arranged, evenly spaced, tight crypts lined by an intact columnar epithelium. Crypts are separated by thin layer of fibrous tissue. The fibrous tissue is occasionally expanded 1 to 3 rows of lymphocytes and plasma cells with infrequent eosinophils. Occasional crypts are mildly dilated and filled with an amphophillic wispy material. One of the samples consists of an irregular fragment of fibrous connective tissue with an under lying portions of smooth muscle.

In one section the majority of the mucosa and associated crypts are replaced by a region of fibrosis. No infectious agents, no foreign matter and no conclusive evidence of a neoplastic process are identified the sections of tissues examined.


Hope that makes more sense to you!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thank you..
> 
> I can't even begin to tell Riley ( I know that sounds odd) with out welling up..:crying:


Not odd at all,I know exactly what you mean xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not odd at all,I know exactly what you mean xx


And the worse bit is the nil by mouth!!

Actually the worse bit is i know there is some thing wrong with him and I feel like I can do nothing to help him..ok that's my last sorry statement (for now) need to be all tough and brave now!!


----------



## Tao2

Hi Nicola, sorry I missed all this as I temporarily absconded to the rabbit forum (had a poorly bunny). Is frustrating that bloods didn't show something. I was interested that they now don't think food related: does that mean you can change his diet or do you need to stick to what he's on?? Hope all goes well with the scan. Try not to feel too stressed out by it all (easier said than done I know).

Edit: just for clarification: when I say _had_ a poorly bunny, what I mean is: bunny _was_ poorly but is feeling better this morning!


----------



## Matti

Oh Nicola!!!  

I'm glad it isn't EPI, but I'm so sorry for poor Riley and especially for you!! I'm sure he knows that you are doing everything you possibly can to help him.

I really really hope the scan goes well and that it shows some positive news or at least a firm diagnosis.

Tom is sending all of his love to you and to his big bro Riley (he's decided Riley is his big bro because he sends him toys and food and they look similar) and I will have everything crossed for you tomorrow.

And as always, if you need anything, I'm only down the road!


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Edit: just for clarification: when I say _had_ a poorly bunny, what I mean is: bunny _was_ poorly but is feeling better this morning!


Glad bunny is feeling better and isn't a 'had' in another sense!!

How's Mittens today??


----------



## Matti

So, Tom has had THE most revolting 'dire rear' yet today. The sloppiest and smelliest I've seen and lots of blood and mucus.

Why can't this enzyme stuff hurry up and work? And why can't the blood test results be back?! I have a diagnosis, but instead of getting better, he's getting worse


----------



## Tao2

Oh no, poor Tom. Hope he's feeling better soon. Did they give you any sort of time frame for the enzymes working?? He does look a bit like Rileys cheeky little brother. They are both gorgeous stripies!

The worst we had from Mittens was the sick lick, I am thankful to say as I was completely distracted by the rabbit. I was expecting much worse but maybe I caught her just as she was tucking in so she might not have had much. I only occasionally moonlight on the rabbit forum, cat forum is more lively. And has more cats on it.


----------



## Cazzer

Oh Nicola sweetheart sorry I missed this about Riley. past few days have been hectic.

fingers crossed for the scan and a postive outcome 

glad to hear bunny/mittens are ok

hoping that Tom's feeing better


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh Nicola sweetheart sorry I missed this about Riley. past few days have been hectic.
> 
> fingers crossed for the scan and a postive outcome
> 
> glad to hear bunny/mittens are ok
> 
> hoping that Tom's feeing better


Thanks..if they do open him up..what should I expect after..? Getting my pratical head on!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi Nicola, sorry I missed all this as I temporarily absconded to the rabbit forum (had a poorly bunny). Is frustrating that bloods didn't show something. I was interested that they now don't think food related: does that mean you can change his diet or do you need to stick to what he's on?? Hope all goes well with the scan. Try not to feel too stressed out by it all (easier said than done I know).
> 
> Edit: just for clarification: when I say _had_ a poorly bunny, what I mean is: bunny _was_ poorly but is feeling better this morning!


Hope your bunny is feeling better..

We did not really talk about diet, she just said we can rule it out as a cause for the diarrhoea and the weight loss as he has been on the novel single no grain proteins, plus the hills diets and still had reactions. I will keep him on the vet concept tho as I like the food..you know what I mean 

I'm trying not to get stressed..but know I will be tomorrow waiting for that phone call, hopefully I will be very busy at work!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Oh Nicola!!!
> 
> I'm glad it isn't EPI, but I'm so sorry for poor Riley and especially for you!! I'm sure he knows that you are doing everything you possibly can to help him.
> 
> I really really hope the scan goes well and that it shows some positive news or at least a firm diagnosis.
> 
> Tom is sending all of his love to you and to his big bro Riley (he's decided Riley is his big bro because he sends him toys and food and they look similar) and I will have everything crossed for you tomorrow.
> 
> And as always, if you need anything, I'm only down the road!


Sorry to hear Tom has had a set back..did they say how long until the meds worked? Riley quite likes being a big bro!!

Tomorrow I'm really hoping to get a firm diagnosis one way or the other at least I will know then what we are dealing with..even if it is just confirming ibd..


----------



## Cazzer

Nicola when Karlo had his biopsy they kept him in for a few days. When he came back he was much brighter than i expected, and the fur on his bald belly grew back quickly. he didn't worry the wound at all. the worst thing for us which you won't have is that the other cats treated him as a stranger for days, and he couldn't figure out why they didn't love him anymore


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Nicola when Karlo had his biopsy they kept him in for a few days. When he came back he was much brighter than i expected, and the fur on his bald belly grew back quickly. he didn't worry the wound at all. the worst thing for us which you won't have is that the other cats treated him as a stranger for days, and he couldn't figure out why they didn't love him anymore


Thanks..when he had last scan he was bald for ages!! Did he have to go back for stitches out? Did he have to wear a lampshade at all?

She did say they may just do a needle biopsies on the lymph node. I have feeling tho they will open him up for full biopsy


----------



## Cazzer

he didn't have a cone, he just had a dressing on his belly. we took it off really quickly as he ignored wound. i can remember him going back but can't remember if it was for stitches to be removed or not. lets hope he won't have to have the full biopsy x


----------



## nicolaa123

Just had a small panic as was sorting some things for his over night bag..just in case he needs to stay over.. Still he needs to go..he had a not great poo, very very dark and had blood on his bum..

So he has both kong toys (big and little), one ball, one boink toy, will have my cardigan that he sleeps on during the day, two tins of food, put a cap in there as well..might put one of my socks too..can't think he will need anything else..oh might put his vet concept toy as well, he likes that it squeaks!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just had a small panic as was sorting some things for his over night bag..just in case he needs to stay over.. Still he needs to go..he had a not great poo, very very dark and had blood on his bum..
> 
> So he has both kong toys (big and little), one ball, one boink toy, will have my cardigan that he sleeps on during the day, two tins of food, put a cap in there as well..might put one of my socks too..can't think he will need anything else..oh might put his vet concept toy as well, he likes that it squeaks!


Nicola , Meeko and I will be thinking positive thoughts tomorrow for Riley. There is no point in saying try not to worry,you will so would I, it is in the job description.
Lets hope they find something that is easy to fix. xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola , Meeko and I will be thinking positive thoughts tomorrow for Riley. There is no point in saying try not to worry,you will so would I, it is in the job description.
> Lets hope they find something that is easy to fix. xx


Thank you..that means a lot to us x

He is sat on my lap, making my legs go into a very uncomfortable position..purring his head off!! Poor boy has no idea!!


----------



## Cazzer

Nicola Riley's overnight bag made me smile 

Yes all of the Vikings and Coonies and Justas here are wishing him well, but particularly Mr Karluccio! x x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Nicola Riley's overnight bag made me smile
> 
> Yes all of the Vikings and Coonies and Justas here are wishing him well, but particularly Mr Karluccio! x x


Thank you..

It's in a waitrose bag no less!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thank you..
> 
> It's in a waitrose bag no less!


At least its not "Pound Land"


----------



## Cloudygirl

My vet took the mick out of me cos I put a toy and a treat in their carriers when they go to the vet. I'm glad I'm not the only one that does it.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> At least its not "Pound Land"


Riley was shocked by your comment


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> My vet took the mick out of me cos I put a toy and a treat in their carriers when they go to the vet. I'm glad I'm not the only one that does it.


Who only knows what they think when I turn up with half the house!!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Who only knows what they think when I turn up with half the house!!


Tom turned up for his overnight stay with my spare snuggie and one of my fluffy minnie mouse slippers- both are pink! Think the vet must have thought we were mad!!

Tom is purring at the screen to send his love and luck to big bro and Auntie N for tomorrow. xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Tom turned up for his overnight stay with my spare snuggie and one of my fluffy minnie mouse slippers- both are pink! Think the vet must have thought we were mad!!
> 
> Tom is purring at the screen to send his love and luck to big bro and Auntie N for tomorrow. xx


Oh that made me laugh..thank you x


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh that made me laugh..thank you x


We aim to please!!


----------



## Matti

I called up the vet today for Tom's bloods, which they haven't got back yet  but as soon as I said my last name (which by the way is almost as common as Smith!) the nurse replied with "Oh!!! It's for Tom!!! How is he?? He's so famous in our surgeries, all of the nurses want to do a shift here to meet him!!"

Not sure if I should be pleased or worried!! In the meantime, dire rear is still a go-go, but he's eating and cheerful, so not too much to worry about so far... have been reading about EPI again today though and I need to speak to the vet about potential vitamin deficiencies which apparently go hand in hand with it all. And the fact that Tom is doing the most GINORMOUS pees I have ever seen!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I called up the vet today for Tom's bloods, which they haven't got back yet  but as soon as I said my last name (which by the way is almost as common as Smith!) the nurse replied with "Oh!!! It's for Tom!!! How is he?? He's so famous in our surgeries, all of the nurses want to do a shift here to meet him!!"
> 
> Not sure if I should be pleased or worried!! In the meantime, dire rear is still a go-go, but he's eating and cheerful, so not too much to worry about so far... have been reading about EPI again today though and I need to speak to the vet about potential vitamin deficiencies which apparently go hand in hand with it all. And the fact that Tom is doing the most GINORMOUS pees I have ever seen!!


Ah hope they can get on top of it soon..which vitamins could be deficient?


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah hope they can get on top of it soon..which vitamins could be deficient?


B12 is a big one apparently... some people end up having to go with monthly B12 injections.

Then something called cobalamin- apparently its produced in the pancreas and it helps digest food and absorb nutrients, but since the pancreas doesn't work properly it isn't produced, so it's a vicious circle!

And also decreased folates are quite common.

Maybe I shouldn't be reading up on all this stuff, but I just want to know what could help/cause problems!


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley had b12 injections..they hurt tho (I have to have them myself)

My vet spoke about cobalamin on his test results but his was ok..I would talk to the vet about the b12..they can really help

Uh oh Riley has just found his over night bag and is currently un packing it!!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley had b12 injections..they hurt tho (I have to have them myself)
> 
> My vet spoke about cobalamin on his test results but his was ok..I would talk to the vet about the b12..they can really help
> 
> Uh oh Riley has just found his over night bag and is currently un packing it!!


I think he's trying to tell you something!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I think he's trying to tell you something!!!


dropped him off, now just wait for phone to ring..he was not very happy, no breakfast and a vet trip


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> dropped him off, now just wait for phone to ring..he was not very happy, no breakfast and a vet trip


Oh no!!!!  poor thing. Just think how happy he'll be when he sees you tonight


----------



## Matti

Tao, got a quick question for you regarding food (and anyone else that has tried the same brand).

I've purchased 6 cans of Kattovit Gastro for Tom, just to try him on them, and I remember you saying you'd tried it with Mittens in the past... What did you think of it?? I wouldn't normally go for it, but they actually state that it is good for pancreatic insufficiency and IBD which immediately made me pay attention, since I've not seen any other foods suggest it is beneficial for pancreatic problems...


----------



## Tao2

I like it, well more importantly, Mittens will eat it (I wouldn't say she 'likes' any food) if I don't feed her too much of it. Definitely one of the varieties that she will most readily eat and never had any, ahem 'repurcussions'. It's a pate style one, I know some cats don't like them. Is Tom OK with pate style?

Whilst I am on, does anyone freeze their cat food successfully? Am experimenting with it at the mo. as Mittens doesn't like to eat more than one mouthful of any one flavour....Grrrr! Cats!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

quick update as at work. Scan clear no sign of anything sinister going on and lymph nodes all normal.

When she called she said they would have to refer to get the full biospy done as he would need special after care they could not give him as he was grumpy and would not let them near him with out hissing..no claws or teeth but constant hissing, I guess stress.

Options are full biopsy, biopsy with endescope both ways, or a higher dose of steroids for 4 weeks and see how his weight is, if no improvement then can do the refer.

I asked her if we do the full biopsy are we just going to confirm its ibd, she said this is highly likely, as the scan did not show anything, she had a good feel and his intestines felt fine. She did say the intestines were not overly thickened either and did not feel rubbery..

I have for now opted for the steroid route for 4 weeks as I just don't think I could put him through the operation just to confirm now it is ibd..

Now we just need to work on getting the ibd under control and getting some weight on him..

Picking him up after work, so am happy about that..not so happy that we can't cure him tho..


----------



## buffie

So pleased that Riley is coming home and nothing nasty has been felt.I totally agree with your decision to go for the steroid trial.I really dont see the need to subject them to invasive abdominal surgery if it is only going to prove it to be IBD.It isnt a cure so why put him through it.Fingers crossed the steroids will help.
Meeko has been "discharged" on minimal treatment(famotidine) for the time being as it seems the more we try to medicate the worse he gets.
I wish we had a magic wand 
He has dropped a little weight this week after putting a bit back on last week


----------



## Tao2

I'm really pleased they didn't identify anything nasty Nicola and that Riley can come home.

Have they suggested anything for weight gain? I was really convinced that Mittens would gain weight once the vomiting and diarrhoea was under control but she hasn't yet. I know these things take time but she really is thin (obviously I only have the newly re-titled Fat Beast to compare her to). Anyway, will keep monitoring her weight for a little while but if no gain it's back to the vets. What meds does anyone out there find are most effective for weight gain??


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I'm really pleased they didn't identify anything nasty Nicola and that Riley can come home.
> 
> Have they suggested anything for weight gain? I was really convinced that Mittens would gain weight once the vomiting and diarrhoea was under control but she hasn't yet. I know these things take time but she really is thin (obviously I only have the newly re-titled Fat Beast to compare her to). Anyway, will keep monitoring her weight for a little while but if no gain it's back to the vets. *What meds does anyone out there find are most effective for weight gain*??


Sorry havnt got a clue on that one although I do know that steroids can have that as a side effect along with other more sinister side effects.
The problem with cats with sensitivities is you cant just fill them up with fattening food as it will probably have the opposite effect coming out of both ends :arf:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well we are home..poor boy is shaved to an inch of his life..apparently he has been scared all day haunched up, refused to eat..made my mind up, no major operation yet as he would be so scared if he was away for a few if not more days..

He has eaten now and is currently under the bed..I will leave him to rest as I doubt he has slept today and he usually likes to sleep a good 8 hours during the day!

I will start the steroids tomorrow and I have to take him back in just over two weeks for a review and weight check to make sure all is on track..

He was so pleased to see me, I unzipped the top of the carrier and he wanted to basically get into my arms!!




Buffie..I also wish had a magic wand!! Hope Meeko responds well again with the famotidine..


Tao2..unsure on the fattening up, as buffie says, more you give them the more the body seems to reject it!!


To all..thanks for your vibes and support, really means a lot..now where is that cork screw!!


----------



## buffie

Meeko would be the same,and to be honest how can that level of trauma be justified just to confirm a diagnosis.
I had the same discussion with my vet thuis afternoon,his feeling is it is the very last thing we should be thinking of doing.
Wish you were a bit closer I'd come round with a bottle and help you to empty it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko would be the same,and to be honest how can that level of trauma be justified just to confirm a diagnosis.
> I had the same discussion with my vet thuis afternoon,his feeling is it is the very last thing we should be thinking of doing.
> Wish you were a bit closer I'd come round with a bottle and help you to empty it


This is what we was talking about too. I am pleased he had the scan as only light sedative, but still hates being there..

He has just had the biggest wee ever!! So guess he was too scared to use their facilities!!

Best give him another small meal, then off to the shop!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> This is what we was talking about too. I am pleased he had the scan as only light sedative, but still hates being there..
> 
> He has just had the biggest wee ever!! So guess he was too scared to use their facilities!!
> 
> Best give him another small meal, then off to the shop!!


Poor Riley he will be a bit chilly round his bod  Meeko was damn near naked from half way down his ribs on one side to right round his belly and up the other side with a little bare circle over the other kidney


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley he will be a bit chilly round his bod  Meeko was damn near naked from half way down his ribs on one side to right round his belly and up the other side with a little bare circle over the other kidney


Yet he has just asked to go out  and is now in a sulk because I said no..not until he grows back his fur to cover his doo dar!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yet he has just asked to go out  and is now in a sulk because I said no..not until he grows back his fur to cover his doo dar!!


He might have a long wait then.It took meeko a few weeks to have a decent covering over the shaved bit.


----------



## Matti

Oh Nicola I'm so glad they didn't opt for the full biopsy straight away and that Riley is home!!  I just got home and put the computer straight on to see how it went with Riley and Tom came bounding over to stare intently at the screen so I think he's been worrying for you all day as well!

Poor little Riley, all chilly and baldy  But I agree with your decision totally, I wouldn't be able to put Tom through a biopsy just to confirm IBD either. Fingers crossed the steriods will help and he can start to even out and put on a bit of weight.

With regards to weight gain, I was hoping someone would be able to give me pointers!!! It's a shame they can't seem to find anything to work for Meeko, Buffie- maybe he just needs some time?? *fingers crossed*

And thanks for the info re the food Tao, hopefully Tom will like it... I'm just really hoping it will be beneficial to him since it mentions pancreatic insufficiency as something it can help combat. I just don't want him to keep growing but not gaining weight- he looks like he's been stretched already.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He might have a long wait then.It took meeko a few weeks to have a decent covering over the shaved bit.


Think I'd better get some more drink in..last time was not too bad, just his tummy, but this time it's his tummy and his sides! I will keep him in as long as possible..he has gone to sleep now..but I don't want him getting stressed about it :incazzato:


----------



## nicolaa123

Regarding the weight thing..part of ibd and epi is that they do not absorb the nutrients from the food, so I would imagine regardless of what they eat, they just won't absorb enough from it


----------



## buffie

Meekos "hair cat"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meekos "hair cat"


Awwww bless him..Riley is bit tender still, I will try take photo tomorrow, he is asleep now, he looks so sweet, I just want to prod him now, like he does me 

I hope all of us can have a good run of health with our cats..they deserve it as do we!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Awwww bless him..Riley is bit tender still, I will try take photo tomorrow, he is asleep now, he looks so sweet, I just want to prod him now, like he does me
> 
> *I hope all of us can have a good run of health with our cats..they deserve it as do we*!


I'll drink to that :yesnod:


----------



## Cazzer

Nicola glad nothing untoward was found and that Riley didn't have to have the biopsy. I think I wouldn't of had it done in your situation either. we were in a different situation though as Karlo's lymph nodes were enlarged and other more sinister things had to be eliminated [which they were by the biopsy]. Hope he forgives you soon, and that the steroids help.

One of the things i am greatful for about Karlo's IBD is that he isn't skinny. I worry that he is overweight  He does love his sensitivity control food

Karlo's never had the usual symptoms of IBD though  Well apart from dire rear and that only started after diagnosis!

Vet always seems to be happy with his weight though thankfully.

Good luck with getting weight on your cats everyone.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Nicola glad nothing untoward was found and that Riley didn't have to have the biopsy. I think I wouldn't of had it done in your situation either. we were in a different situation though as Karlo's lymph nodes were enlarged and other more sinister things had to be eliminated [which they were by the biopsy]. Hope he forgives you soon, and that the steroids help.
> 
> One of the things i am greatful for about Karlo's IBD is that he isn't skinny. I worry that he is overweight  He does love his sensitivity control food
> 
> Karlo's never had the usual symptoms of IBD though  Well apart from dire rear and that only started after diagnosis!
> 
> Vet always seems to be happy with his weight though thankfully.
> 
> Good luck with getting weight on your cats everyone.


I am sure I made the right choice, if they had found something on the scan, I would have not hesitated. I had a really good chat with the vet, pros, cons etc. she spoke about lymphoma and she said even after biopsy or a scan it could still happen and be aggressive enough to grow very quickly, which I said he would have to have one every day in that case, she said she just wanted me to understand a scan or full biopsy does not predict future, just shows what's there now. Plus due to the fact we have been battling this for a while now..chances of it being so thing nasty right now are pretty remote.

She also said you would not know he was ill unless you read his history of loosing weight as he looks healthy..

I just can't put him through the stress..we will try the stronger dose of steroids and see how he goes.

I just want him to maintain his weight..


----------



## Ianthi

nicolaa123 said:


> I asked her if we do the full biopsy are we just going to confirm its ibd, she said this is highly likely, as the scan did not show anything, she had a good feel and his intestines felt fine. She did say the intestines were not overly thickened either and did not feel rubbery..(


Nicolaa, I'm glad the scan went well and nothing sinister showed up. (Sorry meant to get back earlier re your former one but really busy of late) I had a look now and while I'm no expert in term of US, it did strike me that nothing remarkable showed up on this either! Any of the ones I've seen normally include some suggestions as to possible diagnoses.

Now, I find Riley's case a bit puzzling. I would certainly have expected a cat who had IBD with consequent weight loss (which generally signifies more advanced disease) to have noticeably thickened intestines-diffuse or otherwise. In addition a reduction in cobalamin levels which you mentioned elsewhere were normal, though I've no idea how recent this test was. Did these injections help at all?

So, re the weight loss are you sure this isn't purely down to lack of food intake. Is he vomiting a lot for example or has a reduced appetite? What was his response like with steroids before? Weight gain or not?


----------



## buffie

Hows the gorgeous Riley feeling today,hope he has got over his "day trip" yesterday


----------



## nicolaa123

Ianthi said:


> Nicolaa, I'm glad the scan went well and nothing sinister showed up. (Sorry meant to get back earlier re your former one but really busy of late) I had a look now and while I'm no expert in term of US, it did strike me that nothing remarkable showed up on this either! Any of the ones I've seen normally include some suggestions as to possible diagnoses.
> 
> Now, I find Riley's case a bit puzzling. I would certainly have expected a cat who had IBD with consequent weight loss (which generally signifies more advanced disease) to have noticeably thickened intestines-diffuse or otherwise. In addition a reduction in cobalamin levels which you mentioned elsewhere were normal, though I've no idea how recent this test was. Did these injections help at all?
> 
> So, re the weight loss are you sure this isn't purely down to lack of food intake. Is he vomiting a lot for example or has a reduced appetite? What was his response like with steroids before? Weight gain or not?


You are not the only one that finds him puzzling!!

The epi test and cobalamin test were done last week, she said they were normal. The previous scan showed some thickening as this one did but to no significant degree. Re the food intake he does have periods of inappetence but since he has been on the kangaroo from vet concept this has been really only one occurrence, which is put down to the meds. He eats approx 200-300 g of the kangaroo a day. It's odd as since he has eaten better he has had weight loss. Previous he was on d/d and I struggled to get 150g of food down him, before that he was on I/d, again not much interest and before that was on I/d dry and he ate his recommended amount for him most days!! Oh but if he has too much food it gives him the runs..so I have to balance this on a pretty much daily basis as to how I "feel" his appetite is

The b12 injections did not help at all and he still could not maintain his weight.

He does not vomit his issues are the back end, as to frequency of dirrareah that can and does vary quite a lot! But there have been times where it has been solid for a good length of time and he has still lost weight!

Last lot of steroids he was on a low does and lost weight!

He is now on a higher does and gets checked in just over two weeks..

He is a mystery that's for sure!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hows the gorgeous Riley feeling today,hope he has got over his "day trip" yesterday


He is fine, he had a really good sleep..on my arm all night! He ate his breakfast and then went back to bed!!

I came home from work and he was stressing about going out..I said no as its cold out and he cried and cried, eventually he used his tray and did a big wee..he ate some dinner, then was nagging to go out..so I've come out myself for a bit as he will settle if I am not there, if that makes sense!! I don't want him to go out and am trying to keep him in for a week, but if I am at home he cries himself silly..

How is Meeko?


----------



## Tao2

He obviously needed a big rest to get over his stressful day. Am interested in what you said about him losing weight in spite of having a good appetitie on the vet concept. Mittens has never had anything nearing a good appetite, but I thought she would put on or at least maintain her weight if I could get the vomiting and occasional diarrhoea under control. However now she is no longer suffering from either (for months now) she has not gained any weight. I am so disappointed.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> He obviously needed a big rest to get over his stressful day. Am interested in what you said about him losing weight in spite of having a good appetitie on the vet concept. Mittens has never had anything nearing a good appetite, but I thought she would put on or at least maintain her weight if I could get the vomiting and occasional diarrhoea under control. However now she is no longer suffering from either (for months now) she has not gained any weight. I am so disappointed.


Yeah he was very tired!!

The whole weight thing is a pain I know! Maintaining weight is our first goal!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He is fine, he had a really good sleep..on my arm all night! He ate his breakfast and then went back to bed!!
> 
> I came home from work and he was stressing about going out..I said no as its cold out and he cried and cried, eventually he used his tray and did a big wee..he ate some dinner, then was nagging to go out..so I've come out myself for a bit as he will settle if I am not there, if that makes sense!! I don't want him to go out and am trying to keep him in for a week, but if I am at home he cries himself silly..
> 
> How is Meeko?


Good to read that he has recovered.
I was wondering about the food /weight issue.Is it possible that the "better food" is keeping the weight off him.
Meeko is having a very sleepy day,I'm trying not to think of it as anything other than that..
Hope your not out walking the streets  Its ridiculous the things we have to do to keep or furbies happy


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> He obviously needed a big rest to get over his stressful day. Am interested in what you said about him losing weight in spite of having a good appetitie on the vet concept. Mittens has never had anything nearing a good appetite, but I thought she would put on or at least maintain her weight if I could get the vomiting and occasional diarrhoea under control.* However now she is no longer suffering from either (for months now) she has not gained any weight. I am so disappointed*.


As I just said on my reply to nicola,could it be the "vet concept" that is keeping the weight off ,unlike lower quality foods which may make them gain weight if they didnt react to it that is


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good to read that he has recovered.
> I was wondering about the food /weight issue.Is it possible that the "better food" is keeping the weight off him.
> Meeko is having a very sleepy day,I'm trying not to think of it as anything other than that..
> Hope your not out walking the streets  Its ridiculous the things we have to do to keep or furbies happy


Hmmm, not sure on the "better" food keeping the weight off..guess the carbs in the biscuits were putting on weight for him, but then what is best?? Dry that is not good and can hurt his polyp..or better high protein, no grain?? Oh now that's a conundrum!!  maybe I could try some biscuits from vet concept, but as soon as he gets dry he does not want his wet and dehydration can be an issue with his runny bum....I feel my hair thinning 

Hope Meeko is ok..some times I think we watch and observe them so much, that its hard to decide if it is an off day or just a quiet day!!

Oh and don't worry I'm not walking the streets..tho I have on occasion gone for a long walk to settle him to stay in!!

Are we mad??


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> As I just said on my reply to nicola,could it be the "vet concept" that is keeping the weight off ,unlike lower quality foods which may make them gain weight if they didnt react to it that is


Good point!! Lesser quality food..more reaction, higher carb content more weight gained..you just can't win can you!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmm, not sure on the "better" food keeping the weight off..guess the carbs in the biscuits were putting on weight for him, but then what is best?? Dry that is not good and can hurt his polyp..or better high protein, no grain?? Oh now that's a conundrum!!  maybe I could try some biscuits from vet concept, but as soon as he gets dry he does not want his wet and dehydration can be an issue with his runny bum....I feel my hair thinning
> 
> Hope Meeko is ok..some times I think we watch and observe them so much, that its hard to decide if it is an off day or just a quiet day!!
> 
> Oh and don't worry I'm not walking the streets..tho I have on occasion gone for a long walk to settle him to stay in!!
> 
> *Are we mad?*?


:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:


Agreed !!!!


----------



## jenny armour

have an up to date on charley. the steriod that she had back in janaury stopped working last week and although the vet should have given her another one she is still the same. they have also taken a blood test to test which will probably take about a week to come back.
also jj has the runs which started about a week ago and he has also been sick. the runs were getting to be milky, so he went to the vet today and they have also prescribed him stomorgyl 10. i am supposed to give him 2/3 of a tablet a day, i gave him half he weighs 6.1kgs. also because there seemed to possibly be a surge of diahorrea going on indoors, i will have to try and get samples from any of the cats that have the runs and take it to the vets.


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> have an up to date on charley. the steriod that she had back in janaury stopped working last week and although the vet should have given her another one she is still the same. they have also taken a blood test to test which will probably take about a week to come back.
> also jj has the runs which started about a week ago and he has also been sick. the runs were getting to be milky, so he went to the vet today and they have also prescribed him stomorgyl 10. i am supposed to give him 2/3 of a tablet a day, i gave him half he weighs 6.1kgs. also because there seemed to possibly be a surge of diahorrea going on indoors, i will have to try and get samples from any of the cats that have the runs and take it to the vets.


Sorry to hear things still aren't well..


----------



## nicolaa123

3 days inside..he is ok, has a moan for a while, but think he is beginning to realise its for the best!!

Few photos of some of his bareness


----------



## nicolaa123

Only letting me do one at a time


----------



## buffie

Poor little baldy belly  He needs a body warmer .How has the lad been today.
Meeko has been full of it,bouncing his way through the day and then come 5:30 climbed into his bed and has hardly moved since  Every day is different in this wonderful IBD world


----------



## buffie

jenny armour said:


> have an up to date on charley. the steriod that she had back in janaury stopped working last week and although the vet should have given her another one she is still the same. they have also taken a blood test to test which will probably take about a week to come back.
> also jj has the runs which started about a week ago and he has also been sick. the runs were getting to be milky, so he went to the vet today and they have also prescribed him stomorgyl 10. i am supposed to give him 2/3 of a tablet a day, i gave him half he weighs 6.1kgs. also because there seemed to possibly be a surge of diahorrea going on indoors, i will have to try and get samples from any of the cats that have the runs and take it to the vets.


Sorry to read that you are still having problems Jenny,what a nightmare


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor little baldy belly  He needs a body warmer .How has the lad been today.
> Meeko has been full of it,bouncing his way through the day and then come 5:30 climbed into his bed and has hardly moved since  Every day is different in this wonderful IBD world


Isn't it just!!

He has been ok, I've laid on the bed with him most of the day..only way to settle him. He has no interest in paying, he has asked to go out, but has accepted when I've said no..he is sleeping again now..

Maybe the ibd takes it out of them..or we have lazy boys!! :frown2:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Isn't it just!!
> 
> He has been ok, I've laid on the bed with him most of the day..only way to settle him. He has no interest in paying, he has asked to go out, but has accepted when I've said no..he is sleeping again now..
> 
> Maybe the ibd takes it out of them..or we have lazy boys!! :frown2:


I think you could be right (IBD taking it out of them)
Today has been a good day for Mr M .His normal routine is to bounce from breakfast through the day non-stop and then "hit the hay" anytime around 5/6 pm and apart from litter tray visits/fuel stops that is him till morning.On bad days he hardly gets out of bed


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think you could be right (IBD taking it out of them)
> Today has been a good day for Mr M .His normal routine is to bounce from breakfast through the day non-stop and then "hit the hay" anytime around 5/6 pm and apart from litter tray visits/fuel stops that is him till morning.On bad days he hardly gets out of bed


I have noticed Riley sleeping more and more..


----------



## Tao2

I hadn't really thought about it it until I read your posts Mittens is sleeping quite a lot more at recently. Fluff Beast is left wandering round like a lost fart and doesn't know what to do with himself. Today though he has been v happy as she has been much more wakeful and energetic and they've done lots of dramatic chases so he's delighted and now they're both crashed out together on the sofa, him with a brotherly arm round her. So sweet but a the sleepiness is a worry....


----------



## Matti

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has the sleepiness issue then... Tom has (fingers crossed) always been quite bouncy even when feeling poorly but I know when he's having a bad day because he won't get up to eat during the day- he'll sleep all day til I get home from work and then he'll muster up the strength to eat (his appetite is still there luckily) but will go straight back to sleep...

Tom has been quite sleepy today actually, fingers crossed for a better day tomorrow.


----------



## nicolaa123

Omg..Riley is driving me mental. Ever since I've been home he has cried at the door to go out, I've tried playing, feeding, ignoring, running round, saying no several times..but no he is crying and crying and crying!!

Argghhhhhhh:cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:


----------



## Matti

Can you not even let him out with you for 5mins?? Poor thing and poor you  He doesn't realise you're doing it for the best, but you are, don't worry.


----------



## Matti

So, a mixed bag for Tom today.

Toxoplasmosis is gone! YAY!!
Enzyme level has gone up- he is now at the very bottom end of normal, so time for increased dosages but that's good too- YAY!!

Guts, very not good. Badly inflamed and swollen, more like macaroni than spaghetti apparently. Disordered intestinal microflora is what it's called- basically his bad bacteria grows much MUCH quicker than the good. They think he might never be stabilised since he's so young for it 

Anyway, more antibiotics, more fecal samples and lots of hoping


----------



## Tao2

Oh poor you. He needs a nice fluffy dog jacket to keep his baldy bits warm.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So, a mixed bag for Tom today.
> 
> Toxoplasmosis is gone! YAY!!
> Enzyme level has gone up- he is now at the very bottom end of normal, so time for increased dosages but that's good too- YAY!!
> 
> Guts, very not good. Badly inflamed and swollen, more like macaroni than spaghetti apparently. Disordered intestinal microflora is what it's called- basically his bad bacteria grows much MUCH quicker than the good. They think he might never be stabilised since he's so young for it
> 
> Anyway, more antibiotics, more fecal samples and lots of hoping


Now the toxo has gone and enzymes are up..the antibiotics should help with the intestines..maybe just needs bit more time..good news on the other two parts tho  also I think you are going to be in the ibd club where food is related as the intestines may never fully recover 

Oh and Riley has settled now..thankfully!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh poor you. He needs a nice fluffy dog jacket to keep his baldy bits warm.


I keep telling him..if he goes and and some one sees him, they will take him back to the vets!! I could maybe try a harness..

Oh one question for all..Riley is now well over due for his frontline..he is on a full steroid a day..I will/can ask the vet, but do you think I should wait a bit longer??


----------



## Tao2

Oh Matti, hope his guts settle down now the toxoplasmosis has gone. Did you try the kattovit yet?

Got home from work to find every scrap of food I left out polished off so I was chuffed, thinking Mittens ahd eaten well. Then, when I actually saw Mittens she was sitting in that special way, licking her lips in that special way and her tummy is gurgling in that special way that tells me that all is not well in the land of Mittens and it must have been Fluff Beast who ate all the pies as usual. No, no, of course nobody had any actual pies....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh Matti, hope his guts settle down now the toxoplasmosis has gone. Did you try the kattovit yet?
> 
> Got home from work to find every scrap of food I left out polished off so I was chuffed, thinking Mittens ahd eaten well. Then, when I actually saw Mittens she was sitting in that special way, licking her lips in that special way and her tummy is gurgling in that special way that tells me that all is not well in the land of Mittens and it must have been Fluff Beast who ate all the pies as usual. No, no, of course nobody had any actual pies....


Sorry to hear its mittens turn.. hope it's just a one day thing..is she on any meds at the moment?

Riley's tray deposit was quite a lot, some nice and firm, some like rocks and one bit like a cow pat!! His bum was a bit sore too..


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> So, a mixed bag for Tom today.
> 
> Toxoplasmosis is gone! YAY!!
> Enzyme level has gone up- he is now at the very bottom end of normal, so time for increased dosages but that's good too- YAY!!
> 
> Guts, very not good. Badly inflamed and swollen, more like macaroni than spaghetti apparently. Disordered intestinal microflora is what it's called- basically his bad bacteria grows much MUCH quicker than the good. They think he might never be stabilised since he's so young for it
> 
> Anyway, more antibiotics, more fecal samples and lots of hoping





nicolaa123 said:


> Now the toxo has gone and enzymes are up..the antibiotics should help with the intestines..maybe just needs bit more time..good news on the other two parts tho  also I think you are going to be in the ibd club where food is related as the intestines may never fully recover
> 
> Oh and Riley has settled now..thankfully!!





Tao2 said:


> Oh Matti, hope his guts settle down now the toxoplasmosis has gone. Did you try the kattovit yet?
> 
> Got home from work to find every scrap of food I left out polished off so I was chuffed, thinking Mittens ahd eaten well. Then, when I actually saw Mittens she was sitting in that special way, licking her lips in that special way and her tummy is gurgling in that special way that tells me that all is not well in the land of Mittens and it must have been Fluff Beast who ate all the pies as usual. No, no, of course nobody had any actual pies....


Matti "Great news" mixed in with a bit of "not so great news" but at least it is looking more positive than before.

Nicola Thank heavens Riley has settled ,it doesnt make you feel great when you "know" you are making your furbabe miserable even when it is for their own good.

Tao sorry to read Mittens is having a bad day,hope she is feeling better tomorrow


----------



## Tao2

No, she's not on any meds, hasn't been for months which is good. Will drag her off to the vets if she doesn't perk up, poor thing.

#As to Rileys de fleaing, it is pretty cold so you may get away with delaying de fleaing, however, I find my cats, being indoors, only get fleas when they have been to visit the vets....so if your vet is anything like ours...perhaps he should have it. 
I have become very nervous of any treatment after Mittens' reaction to worming medication but am probably least nervous of spot ons as apart from a bald patch once (from Effipro, don't use that any more) she usually seems fine.


----------



## buffie

Knew I forgot something  Sorry Nicola I'm not sure about de-fleaing,I dont use anything on Meeko as he is indoors and has never had fleas.Probably best to ask your vet


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Knew I forgot something  Sorry Nicola I'm not sure about de-fleaing,I dont use anything on Meeko as he is indoors and has never had fleas.Probably best to ask your vet


I will call them tomorrow and see what they say..

Oh and you never know maybe I can convert Riley to the indoor life?? He is asleep on my lap, well on one leg at the moment!! He eventually gave in and played for a bit and for last two hours has not asked to go out!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> No, she's not on any meds, hasn't been for months which is good. Will drag her off to the vets if she doesn't perk up, poor thing.
> 
> #As to Rileys de fleaing, it is pretty cold so you may get away with delaying de fleaing, however, I find my cats, being indoors, only get fleas when they have been to visit the vets....so if your vet is anything like ours...perhaps he should have it.
> I have become very nervous of any treatment after Mittens' reaction to worming medication but am probably least nervous of spot ons as apart from a bald patch once (from Effipro, don't use that any more) she usually seems fine.


Poor girl..hope she is better tomorrow..

I flea comb him daily and so far no sign of dirt or fleas..so might leave until end of the week..


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> Knew I forgot something  Sorry Nicola I'm not sure about de-fleaing,I dont use anything on Meeko as he is indoors and has never had fleas.Probably best to ask your vet


Never had fleas? Never?? Not even from the :cursing::cursing:vets? Am quite envious of you Buffie and am not even going to tell Mittens or Beast or they'll be packing their bags and heading off to dwell chez Meeko


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Never had fleas? Never?? Not even from the :cursing::cursing:vets? Am quite envious of you Buffie and am not even going to tell Mittens or Beast or they'll be packing their bags and heading off to dwell chez Meeko


It's really cold up there!! 

Mind saying that its been freezing here and had snow..but not enough to settle and have day off work


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Never had fleas? Never?? Not even from the :cursing::cursing:vets? Am quite envious of you Buffie and am not even going to tell Mittens or Beast or they'll be packing their bags and heading off to dwell chez Meeko


Nope,he didnt have them when he came here and has never picked them up.None of my cats have had a flea problem,even Bumble the semi feral who lived a very "wild" life before he moved in didnt have fleas.Must be the climate up here ,its too bl**dy cold


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *It's really cold up there*!!
> 
> Mind saying that its been freezing here and had snow..but not enough to settle and have day off work


Just cross posted the same comment :lol::lol: As for snow we had about 4 inches of the damn white stuff :incazzato::incazzato:


----------



## nicolaa123

I have not had one snow day yet am very disappointed :cursing:


----------



## Matti

Oh Fluff Beast!! Eating all Mittens food!! Hope Mittens perks up soon, poor little thing.... Tom has been off his food the last few days- might be because I tried him on some Natures Menu so now he hates his food- oops!!

Not had the Kattovit delivered hoping it arrives tomorrow though- fingers crossed he'll like it. 

And Nicola, I think you're right, he's going to be another one of those not quite fixed cases (I think the worry is because he's so young, whether it will be much worse for him as he matures....)

And re de-fleaing, the vet said there shouldn't be a problem giving it to them when on steroids/antibiotics, but it's so bloody cold round here you could probably put it off for a while...

Fingers crossed for enough snow for work to get cancelled tomorrow!


----------



## buffie

Back garden this morning.My fox pair hoping for patter of tiny paws soon.They are the same pair that had cubs last year


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Back garden this morning.My fox pair hoping for patter of tiny paws soon.They are the same pair that had cubs last year


Oh what a lovely scene!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh what a lovely scene!


I feel very privileged to be able to interact with them ,they trust me and will come to be fed.Sorry to go off topic


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I feel very privileged to be able to interact with them ,they trust me and will come to be fed.Sorry to go off topic


Don't be sorry to go off topic..


----------



## nicolaa123

How are we all this evening?? Hope our littles ones are doing ok..

Riley got his freedom tonight, after he barged past me when I came home from work, I don't shut the hallway door during the day as he has free roam. I normally manage to keep him in, but he was too quick! However I knew he would not be out long and less than 5 minutes later he was back in for his dinner 

I got him one of them wand toys and we have had a good play, he did get quite stressed at one point asking..no demanding to go out and I noticed a bit of blood on his bum 

So we have played and played, he has had two dinners and is now napping :thumbsup:

He has not been for a poo as yet, so am sure I will wake up to that one!! I hope he manages to put weight on..then I got to thinking if he only puts on as one he is on high steroid dose and two he is on house arrest..will we go back to square one again once he is off the steroids and goes out (I am planning to keep in for at least two weeks, maybe by then he would have forgotten the outside world?)


----------



## Tao2

Good boy for coming back home so quickly.

Mittens on great form today, after me being doom and gloom about her yesterday. Have spent a lot of the day with her perched on my shoulder like some deranged parrot.:thumbsup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Good boy for coming back home so quickly.
> 
> Mittens on great form today, after me being doom and gloom about her yesterday. Have spent a lot of the day with her perched on my shoulder like some deranged parrot.:thumbsup:


Can I just say we never see enough photos of your two!!

Pleased to hear mittens having a good day..maybe we may just may have turned a small corner shuuuussssshhhhhhhh


----------



## buffie

What a sneaky little monkey  but at least he didnt hang about outside. Maybe he had a quick"toilet break" while he was AWOL 
There was absolutely no change in Meeko's weight or appetite when he was on steroids although he was only on a low dose.
Good news on Mittens long may that continue.
Meeko has been quite lively the last couple of days but does seem to be reluctant to poop  It is close on 48 hours now(I think) which is longer than normal for him Sorry Meeko for discussing your toilet habits on a forum


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What a sneaky little monkey  but at least he didnt hang about outside. Maybe he had a quick"toilet break" while he was AWOL
> There was absolutely no change in Meeko's weight or appetite when he was on steroids although he was only on a low dose.
> Good news on Mittens long may that continue.
> Meeko has been quite lively the last couple of days but does seem to be reluctant to poop  It is close on 48 hours now(I think) which is longer than normal for him Sorry Meeko for discussing your toilet habits on a forum


Some times Riley can hang on to his poo!

Have not seen a change in his appetite, he is still eating well!

Hope Meeko forgives you for exposing his tray habits! I've stopped Riley reading this thread


----------



## Treaclesmum

Thought I would let Jumpy have some Felix Meaty Loaf today as he loves Felix, and thought the lack of jelly would be good for him... also it's quite a smooth pate and he sometimes prefers a smoother texture.... shouldn't have bothered though... back to a squitty bum again  

I also gave him a lunchtime snack of a small tin of Hilife Tempt Me pate which he has had and loved before now. I can't tell if it's this or the Felix that set him off, but they're both grain and veg free... although they both contain several different protein sources :

Butchers Classic seemed ok yesterday and I know he can eat James Wellbeloved pouches and shredded chicken (Thrive, Feline Fayre, Applaws) and NI, but I find he gets bored with some things... just been onto Floyds Pfotenshop for an order of Macs, Ropocat and Kattovit....

Got some more RC Sensitive pouches on their way too. Maybe I should defrost a carton of NI for tomorrow's dinner and see if he will eat it? :confused1:


----------



## nicolaa123

Treaclesmum said:


> Thought I would let Jumpy have some Felix Meaty Loaf today as he loves Felix, and thought the lack of jelly would be good for him... also it's quite a smooth pate and he sometimes prefers a smoother texture.... shouldn't have bothered though... back to a squitty bum again
> 
> I also gave him a lunchtime snack of a small tin of Hilife Tempt Me pate which he has had and loved before now. I can't tell if it's this or the Felix that set him off, but they're both grain and veg free... although they both contain several different protein sources :
> 
> Butchers Classic seemed ok yesterday and I know he can eat James Wellbeloved pouches and shredded chicken (Thrive, Feline Fayre, Applaws) and NI, but I find he gets bored with some things... just been onto Floyds Pfotenshop for an order of Macs, Ropocat and Kattovit....
> 
> Got some more RC Sensitive pouches on their way too. Maybe I should defrost a carton of NI for tomorrow's dinner and see if he will eat it? :confused1:


Maybe it's all a bit too much variety too soon? Maybe stick to just one type for a while then slowly add in the others but only one at a time for a couple weeks..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well Riley "went" I'm bit puzzled..it started off really hard, then it was normal, then squishy and ended watery..colour was better tho..but still had to wipe his bum


----------



## Treaclesmum

nicolaa123 said:


> Maybe it's all a bit too much variety too soon? Maybe stick to just one type for a while then slowly add in the others but only one at a time for a couple weeks..


I can see what you mean, however I need to find out what he can and can't eat. Both Felix and Hilife Pate are foods he has had and loved in the past, so they're not new to him. I've got some more RC Sensitivity pouches on order but they've not come yet... he really dislikes the texture of Feringa and Grau 
So although I have ordered some more foods online, I would rather find ones which are more readily available. Had Butchers chicken flavour for breakfast and all the cats liked it. I know he can eat shredded chicken and James Wellbeloved and NI (when he feels like it!!), and fingers crossed the Butchers seems to be ok for him too  But alot of the shredded chicken foods are not complete............

It's a vicious circle because when his gingivitis flares up, he will only eat certain foods, then of course his tummy flares up.... and when I was giving him medicine for his tummy, I missed a few days of Logic gel, which then caused a bit of gingivitis....


----------



## Tao2

TM, the gingivitis/tummy thing sounds a bit of a nightmare!! We have gingivitis and tummy issues in this house too but at least it is in 2 separate cats!! Easier to manage. Still have to alternate food varities though because Mittens won't eat more than one meal the same. As Nicola says, would be so much better if they could just stick to one. It is so difficult to work out what is upsetting them if they have had different varieties.

Feringa texture not appreciated here either.


----------



## Tao2

Elephant in the room

Just realised that I have left the Logic gel complete with applicator tube (which makes the whole ensemble look like something designed to be inserted up a rectum rather than in a mouth) out next to the kitchen sink (upside down so you can't see it is for cats/dogs) and the plumber has been here all morning working right next to it. Don't know if I should mention that it is cat toothpaste, in which case he will know I am a mad cat lady or just let him continue thinking that I have rectal issues and hygiene problems.....


----------



## Cloudygirl

Tao2 said:


> Elephant in the room
> 
> Just realised that I have left the Logic gel complete with applicator tube (which makes the whole ensemble look like something designed to be inserted up a rectum rather than in a mouth) out next to the kitchen sink (upside down so you can't see it is for cats/dogs) and the plumber has been here all morning working right next to it. Don't know if I should mention that it is cat toothpaste, in which case he will know I am a mad cat lady or just let him continue thinking that I have rectal issues and hygiene problems.....


Ok that made me laugh. I also have the plumber should have heating back by Friday yay having to crate cats every morning then he's letting them out when he's done going in and out the house. They are confined to the back utility and bathroom and back hall tonight as I don't think anywhere else is cat suitable I currently have a hole in my kitchen wall not big enough for a human to get in but a cat could def get out hence them being in the back. Don't know who is more stressed the cats or me. I think they'd hate a cattery more though


----------



## Matti

Tao, that made me laugh so much!!! 

Nicola, I feel you pain re the odd poops- sometimes Tom will drop one of those and I don't understand how it can be so variable!!

Treaclesmum, it's such a shame you can't test the food for a couple of weeks each time  I really think the swapping so quickly isn't helping the gut problems 

So, Tom isn't doing great. Put on a tiny bit of weight but has lost condition apparently. Plus side is the Kattovit arrived today and you'd think I hadn't fed him, the way he stuffed his face!! I'm confused about the feeding guidelines though- is days 175g (one tin) a day for cats upto 3kg but that doesn't seem enough??


----------



## nicolaa123

Does not sound enough for a kitten..I thought with kittens you just fed and fed until they are full, then feed some more. Maybe they are the adult recs..


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh and sorry he has lost condition..did they explain what that was?


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Does not sound enough for a kitten..I thought with kittens you just fed and fed until they are full, then feed some more. Maybe they are the adult recs..


That's what I thought- maybe I'll split a can between two meals and another half for dinner, see how he goes with that...

He's grown a bit I think but he's not anywhere near as bulky as he was a week ago, not as well built with as much meat on him. His coat feels quite greasy atm as well because he can't digest fat properly


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> That's what I thought- maybe I'll split a can between two meals and another half for dinner, see how he goes with that...
> 
> He's grown a bit I think but he's not anywhere near as bulky as he was a week ago, not as well built with as much meat on him. His coat feels quite greasy atm as well because he can't digest fat properly


Poor little boy..maybe he just needs some more time..


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> So, Tom isn't doing great. Put on a tiny bit of weight but has lost condition apparently. Plus side is the Kattovit arrived today and you'd think I hadn't fed him, the way he stuffed his face!! I'm confused about the feeding guidelines though- is days 175g (one tin) a day for cats upto 3kg but that doesn't seem enough??


Sorry I have missed all the posts on here tonight (been busy on cat chat ) If this food isnt causing any bad reactions then I would let him eat as much as he wants.kittens really shouldnt be restricted in their food intake.I've read of some eating upwards of 400 gms a day.Guidelines are just that,guidelines


----------



## Tao2

Well Mittens is off to the vet tomorrow. Although she hasn't had any vomiting or diarrhoea and is completely full of beans at the moment, she is not eating well and has lost more weight and I am worried. I can't beleive how nervous I am of getting bad news and of stressing her out because she really hates going (and I am nervous about getting a fat bill). 

Wish I could get Fluff Beast to transfer some of his excess blubber to her, it is amazing that 2 cats can be so different on the same diet!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Well Mittens is off to the vet tomorrow. Although she hasn't had any vomiting or diarrhoea and is completely full of beans at the moment, she is not eating well and has lost more weight and I am worried. I can't beleive how nervous I am of getting bad news and of stressing her out because she really hates going (and I am nervous about getting a fat bill).
> 
> Wish I could get Fluff Beast to transfer some of his excess blubber to her, it is amazing that 2 cats can be so different on the same diet!!!!


so sorry to hear this about mittens..fingers crossed all goes well tomorrow, depends on what they say tomorrow, what has her weight loss been like? They may suggest a scan initially, think that cost about 100-150 will have to check my bill, or they may suggest bloods being done..or maybe a short course of steroids..

Let us know how it goes, sending good vibes your way x


----------



## buffie

Hope it all goes well at the vets tomorrow,I know exactly how you feel.
I hate taking Meeko as he gets stressed by it,not that it is obvious at the time,but is later.
Sometimes it is a balancing act,knowing when they need to be seen versus making things worse by going


----------



## Matti

Tao, how did it go at the vet??

And how are all the other kitties doing today??

I have a quick opinion question for you all- it seems Tom doesn't really like the Kattovit Gastro but he eats it- and it's good for him since it helps with pancreatic problems too so I'd like to keep him on it. But he LOVES Natures Menu kitten food.... Would you see any problem in me buying both and mixing them together?? I don't want to do it so he has one meal of one and one meal of the other because I can see him refusing to eat the Kattovit, but if I mixed in a third of a Natures Menu pack at every meal, he'd stuff himself silly... Thoughts??


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Tao, how did it go at the vet??
> 
> And how are all the other kitties doing today??
> 
> I have a quick opinion question for you all- it seems Tom doesn't really like the Kattovit Gastro but he eats it- and it's good for him since it helps with pancreatic problems too so I'd like to keep him on it. But he LOVES Natures Menu kitten food.... Would you see any problem in me buying both and mixing them together?? I don't want to do it so he has one meal of one and one meal of the other because I can see him refusing to eat the Kattovit, but if I mixed in a third of a Natures Menu pack at every meal, he'd stuff himself silly... Thoughts??


If the natures menu doesnt cause a bad reaction,and means that he is eating more food I cant see there being a problem mixing them together.This is just my guess though,I am by no means certain.If it were me I would be game to gave it a go.HTH


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Tao, how did it go at the vet??
> 
> And how are all the other kitties doing today??
> 
> I have a quick opinion question for you all- it seems Tom doesn't really like the Kattovit Gastro but he eats it- and it's good for him since it helps with pancreatic problems too so I'd like to keep him on it. But he LOVES Natures Menu kitten food.... Would you see any problem in me buying both and mixing them together?? I don't want to do it so he has one meal of one and one meal of the other because I can see him refusing to eat the Kattovit, but if I mixed in a third of a Natures Menu pack at every meal, he'd stuff himself silly... Thoughts??


As buffie said I would mix them in as long as no reaction to either food, can't see no harm!! As long as he eats..it's like hiding veggies in a meal


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok poo talk again 

Tonight much better no cow pats, no watery end, but very dark poo..also he scooted after and made himself bleed..vet once said they can do that when they do not digest food properly, bit like when we have a hot curry and it burns on way out.. 

But got me thinking..when he comes home with poo up his tail, could it be from scooting through the poo? Then I thought would a cat do that? Then I thought maybe it was runny got some on his bum then scooted up his tail..then I thought stop thinking about poo..


----------



## Tao2

Matti: Yes I think mix foods together if he doesn't react to either. Vets for Mittens is tomorrow, will let you know.

Nicola: I've only ever seen a cat scoot twice in my life, until then thought it was restricted to the nastier realms of doggydom. Both times has been Fluff Beast and definitely in response to a soggy poo clingon rather than any other reason. Nicola stop it you've got me thinking about poo now and I don't want to.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Matti: Yes I think mix foods together if he doesn't react to either. Vets for Mittens is tomorrow, will let you know.
> 
> Nicola: I've only ever seen a cat scoot twice in my life, until then thought it was restricted to the nastier realms of doggydom. Both times has been Fluff Beast and definitely in response to a soggy poo clingon rather than any other reason. Nicola stop it you've got me thinking about poo now and I don't want to.


Be thinking of you and mittens tomorrow and not poo! Let us know how things go..will try and check in, but busy day at work tomorrow..thinking of you both x


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Matti: Yes I think mix foods together if he doesn't react to either. Vets for Mittens is tomorrow, will let you know.
> 
> Nicola: I've only ever seen a cat scoot twice in my life, until then thought it was restricted to the nastier realms of doggydom. Both times has been Fluff Beast and definitely in response to a soggy poo clingon rather than any other reason. Nicola stop it you've got me thinking about poo now and I don't want to.


Now I'm thinking about poo too. I think Tom scoots occasionally, because sometimes I find a little smudge on the floor outside the litter tray (I try not to think about it) but I think it's often because of the wet mucusy bit at the end 

Eewwww too much poo chat!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Now I'm thinking about poo too. I think Tom scoots occasionally, because sometimes I find a little smudge on the floor outside the litter tray (I try not to think about it) but I think it's often because of the wet mucusy bit at the end
> 
> Eewwww too much poo chat!


No wonder Riley hates doing poo in the tray as soon as I see it..I'm on it and examine it! I think I need help!!:wink:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *Ok poo talk again *
> 
> Tonight much better no cow pats, no watery end, but very dark poo..also he scooted after and made himself bleed..vet once said they can do that when they do not digest food properly, bit like when we have a hot curry and it burns on way out..
> 
> But got me thinking..when he comes home with poo up his tail, could it be from scooting through the poo? Then I thought would a cat do that? Then I thought maybe it was runny got some on his bum then scooted up his tail..then I thought stop thinking about poo..


Bl**dy hell nicola you dont half talk a lot of sh*te :lol: :lol:.......sorry couldnt help myself 

Does he get poo up his tail on the rare ocassions he uses a litter tray.If not then maybe there is a connection with outdoor pooing and mucky tail :scared:
now see what you've done,Im talking sh*t too :w00t:


----------



## buffie

Tao2 .Hope all goes well at the vets with Mittens tomorrow


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Bl**dy hell nicola you dont half talk a lot of sh*te :lol: :lol:.......sorry couldnt help myself
> 
> Does he get poo up his tail on the rare ocassions he uses a litter tray.If not then maybe there is a connection with outdoor pooing and mucky tail :scared:
> now see what you've done,Im talking sh*t too :w00t:


Oh that made me laugh 

But seriously apart from runny poo in the tray, I've never had to clean his tail, wipe his bum yes, but never all up his tail like when he runs home to be cleaned up from going outside!!

I need to think about poo more, I thought about this before..oh no I will dream about poo now..see what this is doing to me


----------



## Matti

I examine Tom's poo too!! In fact I just scooped his tray and found a Cowper like one and started shaking it in his face telling him this poo is not acceptable!!! LOL.

Out of interest, how quickly would I see any adverse results with new food?? 2 days would be enough to see if his dire rear gets worse on certain foods, right??


----------



## Treaclesmum

Found quite a nice one from Jumpy after 3 days eating Butchers Classic 

It was still soft enough to be sort of a squashed flat shape, but it was a good brown colour and had a faint, really healthy smell which is great news for him


----------



## Tao2

Matti said:


> I examine Tom's poo too!! In fact I just scooped his tray and found a Cowper like one and started shaking it in his face telling him this poo is not acceptable!!! LOL.
> 
> Out of interest, how quickly would I see any adverse results with new food?? 2 days would be enough to see if his dire rear gets worse on certain foods, right??


Depends on how adverse the reaction is. Can be as fast as a couple of hours for an intense reaction but I think 2 days should probably cover even a mild reaction.


----------



## Tao2

Right Mittens has been to the vet about the weight loss and poor appetite, she's lost about 300g but as I expected isn't much different to when they last weighed her because she actually put quite a bit of weight on since she last went to vets, then has lost it all again. Anyway needless to say I was totally stressed and didn't take it all in so here are the scrappy bits I remember which probably make little sense:


He suggested putting her on 'overid'? No idea what it is or if it is actually spelled like that but is used in cats with skin allergies but should also help her gut and increase her appetite.

Am completely distracted by Fluff Beast who doesn't like the vetty smell of Mittens and is letting us all know about it....will remove him from room....

Anyway back to Mittens, before he puts her on the overid he wants to do liver and kidney profile because overid can affect liver/kidney? function and her liver maybe a little enlarged or just be more palpable because she is so thin so wants to check. 

And he wants to do some sort of food allergy blood screening thing? Anyone had that?

And an X-ray.

So that's all scheduled for Monday which am dreading. And expensive.

He did say I should persevere with the diet she is on as it is preventing the vomiting. I thought perhaps I should change it to get her eating again but his view is that she is going to go off whatever food she is put on so she might as well stay on a diet that is not causing any diarrhoea and vomiting. And he palpated her abdomen and didn't find anything awful.

Wise thoughts anyone? Or any thoughts at all? Even updates on your cats bowel movements would help distract me from fretting about vets on MOnday, oh hang on, we have bowel movement bulletins anyway, don't even need to request them!


----------



## Tao2

It's me! Again! Just been googling 'overid' think what vet means is 'ovarid' which is 'the pill' for cats!!!! Bizarre that my neutered cat is going to be put on that to soothe her troubled intestines. Anyone? Ianthi??

Edit: just googled some more and I can find cats being prescribed ovarid for skin conditions, calming hormonal queens and even stroppy neutered boys (?) and they all mention that their cats have gained weight on it.


----------



## nicolaa123

Typing this from toilet as we are so mental..i will reply when get home but wanted to you to know am thinking of you both..i will digest what you put later as well x


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> It's me! Again! Just been googling 'overid' think what vet means is 'ovarid' which is 'the pill' for cats!!!! Bizarre that my neutered cat is going to be put on that to soothe her troubled intestines. Anyone? Ianthi??
> 
> Edit: just googled some more and I can find cats being prescribed ovarid for skin conditions, calming hormonal queens and even stroppy neutered boys (?) and they all mention that their cats have gained weight on it.


Sorry Tao2 i have no knowledge of "ovarid" as used in cats, only once used it with a bitch who came into season at the wrong time  Neither do I know anything about blood screening for allergies.I vaguely remember my vet mentioning it but he wasnt keen as it ,in his opinion is not reliable .
Did he mention having a scan done,this does seem to give more info.


----------



## Tao2

Buffie, No, he didn't mention a scan and the allergy testing is very expensive so if not fantastic would rather avoid, so am glad you mentioned it.

Nicola, Whilst I am touched that you took the trouble to post from the loo, am interested to note that even in the absence of Riley, your posts are toilet related....!!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Buffie, *No, he didn't mention a scan and the allergy testing is very expensive so if not fantastic would rather avoid, so am glad you mentioned it.*Nicola, Whilst I am touched that you took the trouble to post from the loo, am interested to note that even in the absence of Riley, your posts are toilet related....!!!


My vet always runs through all options available and the blood screening came up,_ in his opinion_ he doesnt think they are reliable that doesnt mean though that he is right.He may well have been taking cost versus result as a factor,not that it is, as Meeko is insured.
Meeko had xrays first and as they showed up nothing and the problem was still there he suggested a scan as it would give a better picture of what was going on.


----------



## Cazzer

I've got no experience of ovarid either I'm afraid

I think someone on the forum had one of their cats tested re allergies. I think it was either jonescat or Cats cats cats. It was definately some else else with NFCs [and it wasn't Jenny Armour]

someone else has sent samples before to this laboratory direct and bypassed vet. {Don't know who it was or what test though} so if you do decide to do it that might be worth thinking of as could well be cheaper

Veterinary Laboratory, Tests For Companion & Exotic Animals


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## Cazzer

It was Cats cats cats that had one of hers tested

this was the laboratory

allervet - The answer to allergy


----------



## buffie

Found this link............scroll down just beyond half way down page

Food Allergies & Intolerance in Cats


----------



## Tao2

Buffie and Cazzer, thanks for posting links will have a read through. Am glad now that vets were too busy to do the tests today so I have the weekend to read up and think about it. And panic.


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm bit confused..why they would say a food allergy blood test is needed. I can understand if it was used for an itchy cat to determine flea allergies etc, but in all the stuff I've read, I have never seen a blood test mentioned for testing ibd..as the cat could have a reaction to a food after a certain time anyway..

Also confused over the x-ray, I appreciate it may show like a shadow of something if it showed up, but then they would want to do a scan after if they saw anything...? My vet has never suggested an x-ray, always a scan so they can have a good look. I am suprised they did not mention endeoscopy also..

I think it's good to have the bloods done as a general check on her health, might be worth doing the epi one also, just to rule that out.

Have they given any indication of what they are leaning towards?? Was it your usual vet? Can you talk it over with the vet before Monday??

Out of interest how much is the blood test for allergies?


----------



## Matti

Tao, sorry I haven't posted sooner, have only just got home from work.

Regarding the allergy tests, I spoke to my vet about it once before and he said the same as Buffie's vet- that it's expensive and not always a conclusive way of checking, especially if it isn't a skin problem. He said the longer but much more conclusive way of working out if there's an allergy problem is by process of food elimination. But I saw a locum vet with Tom who suggested that an allergy test would be a real option, so I guess it does depend on the vet.

And I'm with Nicola with regard to the x-ray... It's always been scans to see what's going on inside Tom rather than an x-ray.

I really think you should try to have a chat with the vet before Monday to voice any concerns you have 

Tom is sending love and kisses and positive vibes to Mittens!


----------



## Tao2

Hi guys, thanks for all your input, has been so helpful to read your views. I've been mulling it over in the light of your comments and have decided to have a chat with the vet before she goes in on Monday. I want her to have the blood panel but I think I would prefer to not have/to defer the allergy testing at least until the results of the other tests have been returned. Will also talk to him about the reason for the X ray and enquire about an ultrasound instead/as well. 

Nicola it was my usual vet. Over the years as a pet owner I have had a lot of bad experiences with vets and don't have a tremendous amount of faith in them. The vet I see with Mittens is the best one at the practice and that practice is the best one locally but have to say that am still not 100% confident! 

Allergy testing: around £120.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi guys, thanks for all your input, has been so helpful to read your views. I've been mulling it over in the light of your comments and have decided to have a chat with the vet before she goes in on Monday. I want her to have the blood panel but I think I would prefer to not have/to defer the allergy testing at least until the results of the other tests have been returned. Will also talk to him about the reason for the X ray and enquire about an ultrasound instead/as well.
> 
> Nicola it was my usual vet. Over the years as a pet owner I have had a lot of bad experiences with vets and don't have a tremendous amount of faith in them. The vet I see with Mittens is the best one at the practice and that practice is the best one locally but have to say that am still not 100% confident!
> 
> Allergy testing: around £120.


I think you are doing right thing by talking over the options and understanding where they are going with the tests and what they think could be likely..

My vet knows that I normally have to think about things before I make any descion as I'm type to really think and try to understand things..

Interesting about that allergy test, I will ask my own vet her opinion on it..


----------



## Matti

More poo chat...

So Tom went for two small wees in quite close succession tonight, and I was worried about it so when he went again I decided to watch... He was actually going for a poo but it was so wet it sounded like water being poured on the litter  it smelt absolutely foul as well. 

I just don't know what to do about it. He's such a happy kitten otherwise, as soon as he finished he was running around and trying to pounce on my feet... It's just so sad, he's only 22 weeks old, and he's got this for the rest of his life.

Also, does anyone else notice a funny movement of the guts of their kitties?? Sometimes Tom will have almost a twitch of the abdominal area, a bit like he's trying to push out a poo or something, only he won't need the toilet or go to the toilet.... I assume it's because his guts are sore or are settling down after he's been to the toilet (like this time), but was wondering if anyone else has experienced that??


----------



## Cloudygirl

Matti said:


> More poo chat...
> 
> So Tom went for two small wees in quite close succession tonight, and I was worried about it so when he went again I decided to watch... He was actually going for a poo but it was so wet it sounded like water being poured on the litter  it smelt absolutely foul as well.
> 
> I just don't know what to do about it. He's such a happy kitten otherwise, as soon as he finished he was running around and trying to pounce on my feet... It's just so sad, he's only 22 weeks old, and he's got this for the rest of his life.
> 
> Also, does anyone else notice a funny movement of the guts of their kitties?? Sometimes Tom will have almost a twitch of the abdominal area, a bit like he's trying to push out a poo or something, only he won't need the toilet or go to the toilet.... I assume it's because his guts are sore or are settling down after he's been to the toilet (like this time), but was wondering if anyone else has experienced that??


My boo has had that with his tum have you noticed that his tum is hard. I think with boo it was gas poor thing.

I have good poo news so far still back to normal thank goodness. Still not back on normal dried but is on a good sized bowl of wet a day, a fish and half a portion of fish4cats so he is eating much better


----------



## Matti

Cloudygirl said:


> My boo has had that with his tum have you noticed that his tum is hard. I think with boo it was gas poor thing.
> 
> I have good poo news so far still back to normal thank goodness. Still not back on normal dried but is on a good sized bowl of wet a day, a fish and half a portion of fish4cats so he is eating much better


Glad his poo is good!! 

And oh you might be right about the wind... Last time I noticed it there was distinct wiff of bottom as though he'd just let one rip.. I'll check for a hard tum!


----------



## Tao2

Matti does it feel like gas? You can usually hear gas if you put your ear to his abdomen. When she was a kitten (mine are ex feral so came to me with all manner of nasties and upset tummies from the outset), Mittens was gassy. I could feel movement in her tummy and I could hear gas moving about. Now she is not often gassy, but if she is, usually means bad stuff is coming......

Poor Tom! Lucky he managed to make it to the litter tray with runs that bad.


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Matti does it feel like gas? You can usually hear gas if you put your ear to his abdomen. When she was a kitten (mine are ex feral so came to me with all manner of nasties and upset tummies from the outset), Mittens was gassy. I could feel movement in her tummy and I could hear gas moving about. Now she is not often gassy, but if she is, usually means bad stuff is coming......
> 
> Poor Tom! Lucky he managed to make it to the litter tray with runs that bad.


I think you might be right re the gas. Next time it happens I'll have a listen, but it makes sense if he has the runs too.

Yeah I'm so lucky with his toilet training, he has NEVER gone anywhere other than the tray no matter how bad he is- he'll just hold himself. *fingers crossed*


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor Tom..lucky he always makes it to the tray..what is he eating at the moment? Maybe you need to strip it back to basics for a while..





On a wee note..past two wee's I've cleaned from the tray have been in the shape of a heart..no link medically but made me smile..


----------



## Matti

Aww very cute Nicola!! (And a little gross).

He's on Kattovit which has been fine but he ran out and zooplus STILL haven't delivered it so I had to give him whatever I had in the cupboard- which was hills wet I/D. A few hours afterwards he had the worst poo ever! I genuinely think there's a link there. No more Hills I/D wet!! [which is odd since it is supposed to be for Gastro and pancreas problems].

Also, on an aside, I think Tom is teething.... He has chewed his boinks to death and keeps chewing on plastic stuff. Any suggestions/ideas to help?


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Aww very cute Nicola!! (And a little gross).
> 
> He's on Kattovit which has been fine but he ran out and zooplus STILL haven't delivered it so I had to give him whatever I had in the cupboard- which was hills wet I/D. A few hours afterwards he had the worst poo ever! I genuinely think there's a link there. No more Hills I/D wet!! [which is odd since it is supposed to be for Gastro and pancreas problems].
> 
> Also, on an aside, I think Tom is teething.... He has chewed his boinks to death and keeps chewing on plastic stuff. Any suggestions/ideas to help?


Riley can't have the I/d wet anymore does just the same to him 

You can get dental toys..little mice that are "meant" to be good for chewing and teeth..


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley can't have the I/d wet anymore does just the same to him
> 
> You can get dental toys..little mice that are "meant" to be good for chewing and teeth..


Might have a look for those then- stop him using my hands and destroying DVD boxes!!

That's so strange that a food made specifically for gut issues makes them worse?? Maybe it's because it's too rich....

Oh Tom is also on YET ANOTHER new antibiotic- ceporex. Fingers crossed this one works, although I doubt it!! And I've just looked it up... It's used against E-Coli, so looks like we're moving onto the hardcore antibiotics here! Surprisingly, no real side effects which is good, and it seems to taste much better than metronidazole or the one he was on afterwards (I've forgotten the name but that was a c word as well!)- and it's pink so I like it


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## Cazzer

Matti when I had my persian Oska [now RIP] he had triaditis. Vet put him on RC hypoallergenic it gave him terrible dire rear so its not by any means unusual for the specialist food to cause reactions. [the food was a funny colour and the end result was the same tan colour]. He went onto I/D after that and was fine.

Karlo when he has his bad belly [which causes him to walk on his tummy, rather than use his legs] is full of gas and very noisy


----------



## Matti

Cazzer said:


> Matti when I had my persian Oska [now RIP] he had triaditis. Vet put him on RC hypoallergenic it gave him terrible dire rear so its not by any means unusual for the specialist food to cause reactions. [the food was a funny colour and the end result was the same tan colour]. He went onto I/D after that and was fine.
> 
> Karlo when he has his bad belly [which causes him to walk on his tummy, rather than use his legs] is full of gas and very noisy


Thanks for the info Cazzer- I always just assumed that gastro food wouldn't make gastro problems worse but clearly I was wrong!!

Oh and Tom decided to play hide and seek earlier....


----------



## Cazzer

he looks a mischevious monkey!


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## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Thanks for the info Cazzer- I always just assumed that gastro food wouldn't make gastro problems worse but clearly I was wrong!!
> 
> Oh and Tom decided to play hide and seek earlier....


He is beautiful.. A little mini Riley


----------



## Matti

Cazzer said:


> he looks a mischevious monkey!


Oh he is- his nickname is monkey!!


----------



## Tao2

Matti, He is so gorgeous!!! I'd have him, even with his dire rear, and I've had enough dire rears to know better.

Am so ridiculously nervous about tomorrow. Have to take Mittens to vet and a hamster that almost certainly has a fast growing tumour so not looking good.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Matti, He is so gorgeous!!! I'd have him, even with his dire rear, and I've had enough dire rears to know better.
> 
> Am so ridiculously nervous about tomorrow. Have to take Mittens to vet and a hamster that almost certainly has a fast growing tumour so not looking good.


Try and get some sleep, we are all here for you and let us know what vet says..

I find making a list and taking that in helps as my brain normally goes to mush!!

Sending loads and loads of positive vibes for mittens, you and your hamster ..


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Try and get some sleep, we are all here for you and let us know what vet says..
> 
> I find making a list and taking that in helps as my brain normally goes to mush!!
> 
> Sending loads and loads of positive vibes for mittens, you and your hamster ..


Good idea Nicola, will make a list before I go, brain already mush though so can't get much worse...


----------



## Tao2

Well after a sleepless night fretting, got up feeling like the undead. Actually, this is an understatement, I always feel like the undead of a morning, this morning I felt more like the dead than the undead. No, that's not possible is it? You can't feel like the dead. OK, so got up feeling worse than the undead, went downstairs to feed Fluff Beast only, as Mittens had to fast before vets. Fed him, turned round a few minutes later and guess who was eating? Goodness knows where she had been hiding but Mittens had managed to sneak past me and was merrily troughing Fluff Beasts breakfast. So, just the hamster and red faced me at the vets. Mittens is going tomorrow. Great, another 24 hours to fret myself stupid and be such a zombie that I can't keep the cat away from the breakfast bowl. For a cat who is going to vet because of poor appetite, she showed remarkable zeal for her brothers breakfast, maybe that's the way to get her eating....

Hamster is being given a trial by antibiotics in case is abscess rather than tumour, so that is good. Talked about Mittens tests with vet, he wants to do X ray rather than ultrasound in first instance although might do an ultrasound too depending on results. Allergy/intolerance testing he is confident of reliability (says uses a lot for dogs) but is going to do blood panel and X ray first and then decide if allergy testing needed (I think if the other tests show nothing).


----------



## Matti

Well maybe it was fate (aka Mittens) intervening to make sure you had a chance to speak to the vet before taking her in!! Glad you had the chance to discuss the options with the vet so you can feel a bit more at ease about taking her in tomorrow!!

In all seriousness though, I think in a way it's a good thing since it gave you a chance to listen to the vet and have another think through before tomorrow, rather than feeling rushed to have it all done on the same day.

And re: Mittens and her eating, do you leave food out for her all the time? I suppose not since Fluff Beast is on the larger side. Just wondering because I noticed if I left food out for Tom he doesn't eat much, but if I take it up until the next meal time, he eats with alot more zeal. Not sure if that's the case with Mittens??

Good luck it it all for tomorrow, Tom is sending love to his valentine!

As for the hamster, glad you manage to get it in in good time- one of mine had an abscess that popped and the poor thing ended up having to have an operation on its pouch  not pleasant.... And expensive! [hmm come to think about it, the last one was poorly as well.... And now Tom's poorly... My god the vet must think I'm some sort of poorly animal magnet!! Hopefully Jerry the current hamster won't get ill as well!!]


----------



## Tao2

Matti said:


> Well maybe it was fate (aka Mittens) intervening to make sure you had a chance to speak to the vet before taking her in!! Glad you had the chance to discuss the options with the vet so you can feel a bit more at ease about taking her in tomorrow!!
> 
> In all seriousness though, I think in a way it's a good thing since it gave you a chance to listen to the vet and have another think through before tomorrow, rather than feeling rushed to have it all done on the same day.
> 
> And re: Mittens and her eating, do you leave food out for her all the time? I suppose not since Fluff Beast is on the larger side. Just wondering because I noticed if I left food out for Tom he doesn't eat much, but if I take it up until the next meal time, he eats with alot more zeal. Not sure if that's the case with Mittens??]


Interesting that you say that because I DO leave food down all the time in the wild hope that she will eat more. Fluff Beat is as you tactfully say 'on the larger side' but I felt that Mittens' need to eat more was greater than his need to eat less. MAybe I'm doing the wrong thing.



Matti said:


> Good luck it it all for tomorrow, Tom is sending love to his valentine!
> 
> As for the hamster, glad you manage to get it in in good time- one of mine had an abscess that popped and the poor thing ended up having to have an operation on its pouch  not pleasant.... And expensive! [hmm come to think about it, the last one was poorly as well.... And now Tom's poorly... My god the vet must think I'm some sort of poorly animal magnet!! Hopefully Jerry the current hamster won't get ill as well!!]


I see far too much of the vet at the moment what with cat, hamster and a poorly rabbit! :crazy:


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Interesting that you say that because I DO leave food down all the time in the wild hope that she will eat more. Fluff Beat is as you tactfully say 'on the larger side' but I felt that Mittens' need to eat more was greater than his need to eat less. MAybe I'm doing the wrong thing. :


Hmmm, maybe try and lift the food up and just have set meal times for a few days, see how it goes?? You might find after a couple of days Mittens will be eating more, since the food isn't available whenever she wants it?

It's worth a try at least I guess!


----------



## nicolaa123

I think it was fate..not an act of the undead!!!!

I would question the allergy test..has he had any cases with cats he can show you the results and outcome?

I would still be inclined for the scan rather than the x-ray, but guess will see what results are..

Hope your hamster is feeling better..

I agree with matti about set meal times..a little bit of hunger may do the world for her appetite..perhaps several smaller meals during the day and if she stops eating then pick the food up before fb comes along


----------



## Cazzer

had to smile at you Tao2 the number of times that has happened to us! Hope you and your furries start to see less of your vet!


----------



## Matti

Poo chat!! Sorry!

Tom's bum leakage is much darker today, but also MUCH smellier and still very runny  he managed to leak it over the side of the tray and then stand in it and the poor thing looked mortified  

I've decided after talking to the vet it's boiled chicken time, given the change up in his food. My questions are the following: is 3 days enough? How much should I give him? Will it stay fresh enough in an automatic feeder if I put one of the ice packs in underneath?


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Poo chat!! Sorry!
> 
> Tom's bum leakage is much darker today, but also MUCH smellier and still very runny  he managed to leak it over the side of the tray and then stand in it and the poor thing looked mortified
> 
> I've decided after talking to the vet it's boiled chicken time, given the change up in his food. My questions are the following: is 3 days enough? How much should I give him? Will it stay fresh enough in an automatic feeder if I put one of the ice packs in underneath?


I would feed until he firms up, then a few more days and then slowly slowly bring back his other food, but make sure it's a single protein and introduce a teaspoon at a time.. Oh and I think will be ok in the feeder.. When you tried the vet -concept was their any bad reaction. And last question..maybe another course of metronidazole is needed??

Riley had a squidgy and stinky one this morning, was runny at the end


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> I would feed until he firms up, then a few more days and then slowly slowly bring back his other food, but make sure it's a single protein and introduce a teaspoon at a time.. Oh and I think will be ok in the feeder.. When you tried the vet -concept was their any bad reaction. And last question..maybe another course of metronidazole is needed??
> 
> Riley had a squidgy and stinky one this morning, was runny at the end


Oh no Riley 

Well problem is, Tom doesn't firm up, even with chicken and metronidazole and while he's on chicken, he can't eat his enzymes because they don't stick :S hence why I think 2-3days is the max I can do it for...

No bad reaction to the vet concept or to the Kattovit. I think it's my fault for trying him on too many different foods. Hoping he won't get spoilt by the chicken and refuse to eat his normal food... I don't think he will though, he's never actually refused food yet.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Oh no Riley
> 
> Well problem is, Tom doesn't firm up, even with chicken and metronidazole and while he's on chicken, he can't eat his enzymes because they don't stick :S hence why I think 2-3days is the max I can do it for...
> 
> No bad reaction to the vet concept or to the Kattovit. I think it's my fault for trying him on too many different foods. Hoping he won't get spoilt by the chicken and refuse to eat his normal food... I don't think he will though, he's never actually refused food yet.


I'm curious..why do the enzymes not work if he eats chicken??

I would keep him on one food then gradually introduce another one..they say variation of food is god for cats, but that's normal cats and ours arnt..we need maybe 4 we can rotate and to keep in hand if the food they don't react to changes or is not made anymore.

I will send you a tin of kangaroo ( just got delivery) I can't recommend the vet concept enough!! It's good food, single protein and the kangaroo is low in fat..

My problem is finding the next food, as when I have tried we get explosions!! Or he does not like it..out of interest what s the ingredients and flavours of kattovit?

Oh and tao2.. Riley's says fanks..you reminded my save I needed flea stuff and now I'm under the bed feeling like the world has ended..

I say


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm curious..why do the enzymes not work if he eats chicken??
> 
> My problem is finding the next food, as when I have tried we get explosions!! Or he does not like it..out of interest what s the ingredients and flavours of kattovit.
> 
> Oh and tao2.. Riley's says fanks..you reminded my save I needed flea stuff and now I'm under the bed feeling like the world has ended..
> 
> I say


Maybe could try mincing the chicken up with a bit of broth to get the enzymes to stick? Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Kattovit gastro is (I think) chicken and rice, Kattovit monoprotein, just chicken. Don't think either suit Riley?

Oh no, don't want to be unpopular with Riley.... am unpopular enough with my own pets after the recent spate of vets visits.....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Maybe could try mincing the chicken up with a bit of broth to get the enzymes to stick? Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
> 
> Kattovit gastro is (I think) chicken and rice, Kattovit monoprotein, just chicken. Don't think either suit Riley?
> 
> Oh no, don't want to be unpopular with Riley.... am unpopular enough with my own pets after the recent spate of vets visits.....


Ahhhhh chicken and rice are a no no!! Yeah you are unpopular!! But not as much as me!! 

I'm sure our fur babies do forgive us..after all I call Riley baldy boy at the moment and he still purrs!! Mittens will probably join the shaved gang tomorrow..

Really hope all goes well Hun x


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Maybe could try mincing the chicken up with a bit of broth to get the enzymes to stick? Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
> 
> Kattovit gastro is (I think) chicken and rice, Kattovit monoprotein, just chicken. Don't think either suit Riley?
> 
> Oh no, don't want to be unpopular with Riley.... am unpopular enough with my own pets after the recent spate of vets visits.....


You got it Tao!! I've avoided the rice because last time he wouldn't eat it. Just mixed broth with the chicken to get the enzymes to stick and it sort of worked, but my worry is it will dissolve into the broth which he won't actually eat!!

Yup Kattovit is a mono protein too, and the ingredients are as Tao said, so quite bland which is good. Definitely thinking that I will be rotating it with the vet concept when I get round to ordering some- Tom LOVED the rabbit (not the reindeer thank god, the day I fed that to him was the same day I was playing with the reindeer at Paradise Wildlife Park!).

I'm thinking 3 days to firm up the stools a bit then slowly introducing the other food as suggested... Should have a delivery by then as well.

Where do you buy the vet concept from Nicola? I remember you told me but I've forgotten again!! Doh!!


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## nicolaa123

Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

Here, but I just email them my order..once you have deivery you have to pay invoice by bank transfer, I do a sepa payment the cost varies from bank to bank, but as I bulk order, it does offset against the cost, the delivery cost is 5 euros which is very cheap 

I've always had good service from them, delivery normally takes 3-5 days. Riley loves the kangaroo and is the best he has been on food to be fair..he was not keen on reindeer either..


----------



## Matti

Oh brilliant, will definitely have a look into doing that  thanks Nicola!!


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Ahhhhh chicken and rice are a no no!! Yeah you are unpopular!! But not as much as me!!
> 
> I'm sure our fur babies do forgive us..after all I call Riley baldy boy at the moment and he still purrs!! Mittens will probably join the shaved gang tomorrow..
> 
> Really hope all goes well Hun x


Oh yes, forgot that she will probably get shaved. Actually looking forward to that, with a sealpoint you never quite know what colour it's going to grow back....coat colour is temperature sensitive. Small pleasures...


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> Oh yes, forgot that she will probably get shaved. Actually looking forward to that, with a sealpoint you never quite know what colour it's going to grow back....coat colour is temperature sensitive. Small pleasures...


Wow really?! I didn't know that... I'd be so tempted to shave chunks off to see what colour comes back  only joking obviously!!

Good luck for tomorrow Tao and Mittens!! I hope it all goes well  xx


----------



## buffie

Sorry guys not been around much,hope everyone is okay.Tao2 goodluck for tomorrow .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry guys not been around much,hope everyone is okay.Tao2 goodluck for tomorrow .


Apparently I'm still evil


----------



## Tao2

Thanks for messages everyone. Mittens just got back from vets, very groggy but eating. She looks terrible, all shaved round her neck. She looks tiny anyway but it's only when shaved that I realise what a large proportion of her is her long fluff. Poor little mite.
She's had X ray, initial blood screening and more bloods sent off for pancreatic and liver tests. Didn't do allergy screening in the end. Will hopefully get those results tomorrow so will let you know what comes back.
So pleased to have her home. :smile5::smile5::smile5:


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for messages everyone. Mittens just got back from vets, very groggy but eating. She looks terrible, all shaved round her neck. She looks tiny anyway but it's only when shaved that I realise what a large proportion of her is her long fluff. Poor little mite.
> She's had X ray, initial blood screening and more bloods sent off for pancreatic and liver tests. Didn't do allergy screening in the end. Will hopefully get those results tomorrow so will let you know what comes back.
> So pleased to have her home. :smile5::smile5::smile5:


Bet you are glad thats over  Did the vet say whether there was anything found on the xray ?.Hope the bloods are all okay and dont take too long.My vets do most "in house" but the pancreas test had to be sent to Liverpool and took a few days for the result to come back.
Poor Mittens she will be a bit chilly round her neck.Meeko's is only starting to grow in now and that was over 2 weeks ago


----------



## Tao2

Everything looked fine on X ray except for the pancreas, which was possibly inflamed. She's still really groggy and her pupils are still very dilated, just off to give them a ring about it....


----------



## Tao2

Apparently she is fine but has a neurotic owner.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Apparently she is fine but has a *neurotic* owner.


Where do you draw the line  I'd rather appear "neurotic" than "careless"  Glad the xrays seem fine.Fingers crossed for the bloods.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Everything looked fine on X ray except for the pancreas, which was possibly inflamed. She's still really groggy and her pupils are still very dilated, just off to give them a ring about it....


Did they talk about doing a scan on the pancreas?

Pleased mittens is ok..and don't worry we don't think you are neurotic!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Apparently I'm still evil


Have you been forgiven yet


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Have you been forgiven yet


No! We are now having a loud no a very loud protest to be let out!! I don't know whether to let him out or keep him in..he is getting stressed..I will try playing with him again see if I can distract him..but he is seriously screaming


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> No! We are now having a loud no a very loud protest to be let out!! I don't know whether to let him out or keep him in..he is getting stressed..I will try playing with him again see if I can distract him..but he is seriously screaming


Still not a happy bunny then  Good luck,if the weather with you is anything like here he wont be out long :nonod:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Still not a happy bunny then  Good luck,if the weather with you is anything like here he wont be out long :nonod:


Heard you have some lovey weather up there!! It's milder here today..

Problem is he needs to have a poo, I've said to him I will let him out for a short while after he has had a poo...he has calmed down a bit now..


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Did they talk about doing a scan on the pancreas?
> 
> Pleased mittens is ok..and don't worry we don't think you are neurotic!!


No, but will see what they say when the blood results come back.

How's everyone else today? Poo update from the stripey boys?


----------



## Tao2

Just thinking, Mittens is the only female cat on here recently. Is IBD more common in males, if so, I wonder why?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Just thinking, Mittens is the only female cat on here recently. Is IBD more common in males, if so, I wonder why?


That's a really interesting point..tho have no idea why it would be..

I have had to let Riley out..from major crying, to mass destruction (which I can cope with) to major depression..I feel rubbish for letting him, but stress is no good for him either..feel I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't..


----------



## buffie

Report from the Meeko camp.He seems fine,seems to be eating okay,seems happy and energetic,in fact in general all seems well,(refuse to use the "is" word  0


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> Report from the Meeko camp.He seems fine,seems to be eating okay,seems happy and energetic,in fact in general all seems well,(refuse to use the "is" word  0


Me to, like tempting fate! Anyway 'seems fine' is good enough for me. How about a vomit report? No vomit from Mittens but Fluff Beast decided to do one on the back door mat (always where someone is likely to tread), whilst I was at the vets. I think it was a protest vomit because after yesterdays debacle I refused him any breakfast until Mittens was safe in the carrier. He obviously just stuffed himself until he was sick whilst we were gone.....:nonod:


----------



## buffie

No vomitting for 3 months now,since he went back on to the famotidine.Fairly certain if I stop it he will be vomitting within the week though


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Me to, like tempting fate! Anyway 'seems fine' is good enough for me. How about a vomit report? No vomit from Mittens but Fluff Beast decided to do one on the back door mat (always where someone is likely to tread), whilst I was at the vets. I think it was a protest vomit because after yesterdays debacle I refused him any breakfast until Mittens was safe in the carrier. He obviously just stuffed himself until he was sick whilst we were gone.....:nonod:


Poor fluff beast! Maybe he wanted to goto the vets too


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> No vomitting for 3 months now,since he went back on to the famotidine.Fairly certain if I stop it he will be vomitting within the week though


Pleased to hear! Tho I agree I think all we can hope for is to manage symptoms..


----------



## nicolaa123

On a different note..I will be going to Florence..booked it later for the year..already panicking, hoping Riley won't be on any meds..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> On a different note..I will be going to Florence..booked it later for the year..already panicking, hoping Riley won't be on any meds..


Ooo lucky you  How long are you away for


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Ooo lucky you  How long are you away for


3 nights..


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm so annoyed..Riley came home poo all up his tail, over his legs, every where!

I just don't get it..I've seen his poo in the tray and ok little squidgy and soft at the end..no way could he get it all over himself like he has tonight..

I just don't know what to do! I try to keep him in and he is getting so stressed I let him out and his poo turns into evil devilness!

Clearly the steroids are not helping.

He is not happy being 24/7 indoor cat.

I can't build a run or enclosed garden.

I can't give him what he needs to make him happy/healthy!

Ok my rant over..just does not make frickin sense to me..:crying:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm so annoyed..Riley came home poo all up his tail, over his legs, every where!
> 
> I just don't get it..I've seen his poo in the tray and ok little squidgy and soft at the end..no way could he get it all over himself like he has tonight..
> 
> I just don't know what to do! I try to keep him in and he is getting so stressed I let him out and his poo turns into evil devilness!
> 
> Clearly the steroids are not helping.
> 
> He is not happy being 24/7 indoor cat.
> 
> I can't build a run or enclosed garden.
> 
> I can't give him what he needs to make him happy/healthy!
> 
> Ok my rant over..just does not make frickin sense to me..:crying:


Very odd,I know this sounds mad,but perhaps obvious at the same time .he must poo in a different way when he's outside to when he poops in the house.
Does he ever get poo up his tail ect on the few occasions that he poops inside?


----------



## Matti

Argh!! I wrote a really long post to everyone and my iPhone deleted it and now my battery is dying and I'm out so will just do a short one instead- sorry guys I'm not ignoring you all, I'll have more to say to each of you later!!

Nicola- poor Riley  despite the poo issue I think it's best to let him out since the stress of not going may make him worse in the long run.
Tao- glad Mittens vet trip went well- keep us posted on the results and I haven't fingers crossed re the pancreas!
Buffie- gla Meeko 'seems' well- long may it continue!

Tom is not so good. Antibiotics stopped, he's on pro-kolin entrogenic and steroids (prednisolone or whatever it's called). He's also on Hills z/d now so all the food I ordered is going back unless anyone wants any Kattovit? Lol.

Vet thinks this is it now, no getting better  and since he's still a baby he's very worried about what the future will hold.... Whether he will carry on growing or get worse  plus side, he's put on 260g in a week, he's upto 1.89kg now!!! Vet VERY pleased with this, since he seems to be growing against the odds.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Very odd,I know this sounds mad,but perhaps obvious at the same time .he must poo in a different way when he's outside to when he poops in the house.
> Does he ever get poo up his tail ect on the few occasions that he poops inside?


Indoors I have had to wipe his bum, but never clean his tail and legs..even when it's been liquid!

But he would have to drag his bum and tail through his poo to achieve the same and that does not seem likely for a cat? Like literately do the twist on his poo the way it's the length of his tail  just does not make sense he would do this??


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> Argh!! I wrote a really long post to everyone and my iPhone deleted it and now my battery is dying and I'm out so will just do a short one instead- sorry guys I'm not ignoring you all, I'll have more to say to each of you later!!
> 
> Nicola- poor Riley  despite the poo issue I think it's best to let him out since the stress of not going may make him worse in the long run.
> Tao- glad Mittens vet trip went well- keep us posted on the results and I haven't fingers crossed re the pancreas!
> Buffie- gla Meeko 'seems' well- long may it continue!
> 
> Tom is not so good. Antibiotics stopped, he's on pro-kolin entrogenic and steroids (prednisolone or whatever it's called). He's also on Hills z/d now so all the food I ordered is going back unless anyone wants any Kattovit? Lol.
> 
> Vet thinks this is it now, no getting better  and since he's still a baby he's very worried about what the future will hold.... Whether he will carry on growing or get worse  plus side, he's put on 260g in a week, he's upto 1.89kg now!!! Vet VERY pleased with this, since he seems to be growing against the odds.


So sorry to read that Tom is not so good.I may be wrong here ,but do you think your vet's are doing everything possible,I dont mean that I think your vets are negligent,but it may be possible that Tom needs to be referred to a specialist in this field.Vets cant know everything about all ailments and sometimes they have to admit defeat and bring in the "big guns"


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Argh!! I wrote a really long post to everyone and my iPhone deleted it and now my battery is dying and I'm out so will just do a short one instead- sorry guys I'm not ignoring you all, I'll have more to say to each of you later!!
> 
> Nicola- poor Riley  despite the poo issue I think it's best to let him out since the stress of not going may make him worse in the long run.
> Tao- glad Mittens vet trip went well- keep us posted on the results and I haven't fingers crossed re the pancreas!
> Buffie- gla Meeko 'seems' well- long may it continue!
> 
> Tom is not so good. Antibiotics stopped, he's on pro-kolin entrogenic and steroids (prednisolone or whatever it's called). He's also on Hills z/d now so all the food I ordered is going back unless anyone wants any Kattovit? Lol.
> 
> Vet thinks this is it now, no getting better  and since he's still a baby he's very worried about what the future will hold.... Whether he will carry on growing or get worse  plus side, he's put on 260g in a week, he's upto 1.89kg now!!! Vet VERY pleased with this, since he seems to be growing against the odds.


Poor tom, hope the pred works..the z/d is yuck if its the wet..the dry is not so bad..just hope he continues to put weight on and beats this..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Indoors I have had to wipe his bum, but never clean his tail and legs..even when it's been liquid!
> 
> But he would have to drag his bum and tail through his poo to achieve the same and that does not seem likely for a cat? Like literately do the twist on his poo the way it's the length of his tail  just does not make sense he would do this??


I told you it sounded mad  ,but if it only happens outside it does seem to point to that playing a big part in the end result.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I told you it sounded mad  ,but if it only happens outside it does seem to point to that playing a big part in the end result.


I agree, but there is no logic to this!

Plus he is not happy staying indoors, so can't keep him in..honestly I don't know if to scream or cry!!

I think he has possibly lost weight as well..I can feel his ribs with out any pressure..we are back to vets in a week for a check up..I don't know what to ask for next..but I'm certain on one thing I can't put him through the full biopsy..

Maybe one option is to get another cat for company and keep the pair of them inside? And hope I can keep him from being depressed..it was horrible before I let him out..he had a look in his eye that life was not worth living..

I feel pretty **** tonight


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> So sorry to read that Tom is not so good.I may be wrong here ,but do you think your vet's are doing everything possible,I dont mean that I think your vets are negligent,but it may be possible that Tom needs to be referred to a specialist in this field.Vets cant know everything about all ailments and sometimes they have to admit defeat and bring in the "big guns"


My vet has been consulting with a specialist on the case as it happens. It's the first time he's ever seen this in 23 years as a vet so he's consulting with specialists and also with other lecturers at Cambridge (he lecturers part time there since that was his uni and vet school) and he's been doing his own research with the pharma companies. Normally I'd think it's time for a referral but I really do trust Steve and that he's doing everything possible. He LOVES Tom as well so I feel like he is trying everything to fix the problem.

I know exactly what you mean though Buffie- if I didn't know all of the above I'd be requesting a direct referral by now!! 

In other news, forgot to say- when I went to the vet there was an RTA and a dog was in the vet that was in a very bad way... The owner was a teenage girl who stormed off and left the dog there, without permission to the vet to treat or euthanise. The poor thing was in so much pain  I understand she was upset, but to leave the dog in pain like that ( we could hear it) and storm off is terrible.


----------



## buffie

Matti said:


> My vet has been consulting with a specialist on the case as it happens. It's the first time he's ever seen this in 23 years as a vet so he's consulting with specialists and also with other lecturers at Cambridge (he lecturers part time there since that was his uni and vet school) and he's been doing his own research with the pharma companies. Normally I'd think it's time for a referral but I really do trust Steve and that he's doing everything possible. He LOVES Tom as well so I feel like he is trying everything to fix the problem.
> 
> I know exactly what you mean though Buffie- if I didn't know all of the above I'd be requesting a direct referral by now!!
> 
> In other news, forgot to say- when I went to the vet there was an RTA and a dog was in the vet that was in a very bad way... The owner was a teenage girl who stormed off and left the dog there, without permission to the vet to treat or euthanise. The poor thing was in so much pain  I understand she was upset, but to leave the dog in pain like that ( we could hear it) and storm off is terrible.


Good to read that your vet is discussing Tom with specialists,my vet did the same with the Edinburgh Vet School and they are happy to have him as a referral to see if they can come up with a true diagnosis using their high tech equipment rather than surgery.
Hope Tom starts to improve and manages to come through this soon.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I agree, but there is no logic to this!
> 
> Plus he is not happy staying indoors, so can't keep him in..honestly I don't know if to scream or cry!!
> 
> I think he has possibly lost weight as well..I can feel his ribs with out any pressure..we are back to vets in a week for a check up..I don't know what to ask for next..but I'm certain on one thing I can't put him through the full biopsy..
> 
> Maybe one option is to get another cat for company and keep the pair of them inside? And hope I can keep him from being depressed..it was horrible before I let him out..he had a look in his eye that life was not worth living..
> 
> I feel pretty **** tonight


I feel for you I really do,I know what it is like to deny a cat who is used to going out.Bumble the semi -feral had his ear amputated not long after he "moved in"(skin cancer) and was under house arrest for 6 weeks .He only went out the back door,round to the front via next doors garden but he wasnt happy at not being allowed out.
If you think it might help him to have a companion,maybe approach a rescue who dont have a problem with keeping cats indoors,and explain the problem.They may allow you to have a cat on a trial basis,just incase it doesnt work out as it wouldnt be in either cats interest for them not to get on.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I feel for you I really do,I know what it is like to deny a cat who is used to going out.Bumble the semi -feral had his ear amputated not long after he "moved in"(skin cancer) and was under house arrest for 6 weeks .He only went out the back door,round to the front via next doors garden but he wasnt happy at not being allowed out.
> If you think it might help him to have a companion,maybe approach a rescue who dont have a problem with keeping cats indoors,and explain the problem.They may allow you to have a cat on a trial basis,just incase it doesnt work out as it wouldnt be in either cats interest for them not to get on.


I need to have a good think..


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, Do you have any idea of how Riley gets on with other cats? Have you had him since a kitten, has he lived with any other cats before? I've had cats in the past who would be quite happy to accept a companion, some at the other extreme. Just thinking you might get you11111sorry 1111q a feel for if Riley would appreciate or loathe a catty friend.l,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sorry Mittens on keyboard. Just remember you'll never know who has eaten all the pies which might drive you a bit bonkers:crazy::crazy::crazy:


----------



## Tao2

No results phone call from the vets today. Grrrrr. Mittens so lovely and affectionate today. Sadly, I think it's 'cos she is still drugged up from yesterday. She is lovely normally, I hasten to add, but today she is just completely bonkers affectionate, hence typos. Might keep her on cat drugs all the time....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, Do you have any idea of how Riley gets on with other cats? Have you had him since a kitten, has he lived with any other cats before? I've had cats in the past who would be quite happy to accept a companion, some at the other extreme. Just thinking you might get you11111sorry 1111q a feel for if Riley would appreciate or loathe a catty friend.l,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sorry Mittens on keyboard. Just remember you'll never know who has eaten all the pies which might drive you a bit bonkers:crazy::crazy::crazy:


I have had him from kitten, he is quite tolerant of cats apart from next doors cat who he tried to play with and get a telling off so they have a square on occasions. His other cat friend comes into the house and they have a play for a bit until he oversteps the mark. If she is outside and he sees her he follows her around.

He also loves a black and white Tom and a blonde ginger Tom and also follows them. I looked after some ones cat for a good few months a while ago, took some time as she was mega grumpy, but after about 4 weeks they were sleeping on the same bed!!

But there is always a risk, plusif the second cat did not like kanagroo it would cause problems..maybe not such a good idea..

I need to see what his poo is like next time..he is back on house arrest..only different thing has been the frontline and I have past 3 days started the logic again. I will keep with the logic tho to rule this one out.

If it is a case he makes himself dirty outside..what kind of help can we get then??


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> No results phone call from the vets today. Grrrrr. Mittens so lovely and affectionate today. Sadly, I think it's 'cos she is still drugged up from yesterday. She is lovely normally, I hasten to add, but today she is just completely bonkers affectionate, hence typos. Might keep her on cat drugs all the time....


oh I hate waiting too!! Did they say when they would be in? Have you called to ask them if they are in?

pleased it seems mittens has got over her trip to the vets..


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> I have had him from kitten, he is quite tolerant of cats apart from next doors cat who he tried to play with and get a telling off so they have a square on occasions. His other cat friend comes into the house and they have a play for a bit until he oversteps the mark. If she is outside and he sees her he follows her around.
> 
> He also loves a black and white Tom and a blonde ginger Tom and also follows them. I looked after some ones cat for a good few months a while ago, took some time as she was mega grumpy, but after about 4 weeks they were sleeping on the same bed!!
> 
> But there is always a risk, plusif the second cat did not like kanagroo it would cause problems..maybe not such a good idea..
> 
> I need to see what his poo is like next time..he is back on house arrest..only different thing has been the frontline and I have past 3 days started the logic again. I will keep with the logic tho to rule this one out.
> 
> If it is a case he makes himself dirty outside..what kind of help can we get then??


Does sound like he's a pretty sociable chap so a chum might work well. I think looking for a kangaroo loving cat is pretty niche though......


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Does sound like he's a pretty sociable chap so a chum might work well. I think looking for a kangaroo loving cat is pretty niche though......


I think I need to preserver more with the not going out for a while. I will discuss the whole toiling thing with the vet..as to why he seems to be rubbing it over his tail when he goes outside but does not inside..but it does not happen all the time, which is the puzzling thing?!


----------



## Cazzer

I don't know I have 7 kangaroo loving cats here [all except Karlo who tolerates it ]

and no Nicola you can't have one! Does sound as though Riley is a pretty friendly soul

glad mittens is over her ordeal and that you get results back soon and fingers crossed too for Tom feeling better soon

Can't forget Meeko either!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I don't know I have 7 kangaroo loving cats here [all except Karlo who tolerates it ]
> 
> *and no Nicola you can't have one*! Does sound as though Riley is a pretty friendly soul
> 
> glad mittens is over her ordeal and that you get results back soon and fingers crossed too for Tom feeling better soon
> 
> Can't forget Meeko either!


Very unfair!!


----------



## buffie

Just thought you all might like a chuckle at Meeko's expense.
He fell in the loo :w00t: :lol: :lol: I was removing a deposit from his tray and he was helping  I lifted the lid and seat together and the daft lump came to see what was going on,jumped up on the edge of the bowl,slipped and in went both back feet.He was out of there and up on top of the wardrobe so bl**dy quick his feet were steaming


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just thought you all might like a chuckle at Meeko's expense.
> He fell in the loo :w00t: :lol: :lol: I was removing a deposit from his tray and he was helping  I lifted the lid and seat together and the daft lump came to see what was going on,jumped up on the edge of the bowl,slipped and in went both back feet.He was out of there and up on top of the wardrobe so bl**dy quick his feet were steaming


Poor mr M!!!


----------



## Tao2

Just spoken to vet: results are in, am going in tomorrow for more details but basically: pancreas and liver issues and raised white and red blood counts all indicative of infection so she's going on metronidazole. Some of the in house bloods conflicted with the results that got sent off for specific pancreas and liver testing so I'm not sure how much faith to put in results. And I was keen for her to go on something to stimulate her appetite but I think that's out of the window for the present.
Anyway, at least she can join the metronidazole gang hope she doesn't react like Mr M.! She has had it before but not for a while and I can't remember any problems. That's no guarantee though, can barely remember my own name.


----------



## Tao2

Am concerned about results: Vet was playing it down, saying that there was nothing there that might not resolve completely with treatment. But still.....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Am concerned about results: Vet was playing it down, saying that there was nothing there that might not resolve completely with treatment. But still.....


Make a list tonight of all your questions, thoughts and concerns and take them tomorrow with you and right down all the replies you get.. Did they do an epi test? Also what I found helps is to ask them to print all the results so you can have a look..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well just to blow another theory I had out the window.. I came home to find not only very sloppy poo in the tray, but on the bathroom mat and on the floor and scoot marks in the front room and bedroom, plus he had poo all up his tail and legs!! He was so upset when I came in, crying and was obviously very embarrassed by it all, poor boy..

Guess it was the logic then..so will now stop and see how he is..oh will this thing ever let up??


----------



## Tao2

Oh no, poor Riley, poor you!

No epi test because her results are the opposite of pancreatic insufficiency: her pancreas is enlarged and she has excess pancreatic enzymes circulating in her blood! 
I need Fluff Beast to donate some of his excess blubber to her and in turn she can donate some her pancreatic enzymes to Tom! If only:smile5:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh no, poor Riley, poor you!
> 
> No epi test because her results are the opposite of pancreatic insufficiency: her pancreas is enlarged and she has excess pancreatic enzymes circulating in her blood!
> I need Fluff Beast to donate some of his excess blubber to her and in turn she can donate some her pancreatic enzymes to Tom! If only:smile5:


Be interesting to hear what the vets thoughts are..


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just spoken to vet: results are in, am going in tomorrow for more details but basically: pancreas and liver issues and raised white and red blood counts all indicative of infection so she's going on metronidazole. Some of the in house bloods conflicted with the results that got sent off for specific pancreas and liver testing so I'm not sure how much faith to put in results. And I was keen for her to go on something to stimulate her appetite but I think that's out of the window for the present.
> Anyway, at least she can join the metronidazole gang hope she doesn't react like Mr M.! She has had it before but not for a while and I can't remember any problems. That's no guarantee though, can barely remember my own name.


Sorry the blood results are not what you had hoped.I agree with nicola write your questions down,I know when i go in the surgery I leave my memory in the car 
As for an appetite stimulant,Meeko was given Mirtazapine while on other drugs so it may be worth asking your vet if this is an option,but be aware if Mittens is put on it ,she will be a bit "wide eyed and hyper" for a few hours.
Good luck with the dreaded Metronidazole ,Meeko hasnt had any more "itchy" episodes so looks like it was the culprit.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well just to blow another theory I had out the window.. I came home to find not only very sloppy poo in the tray, but on the bathroom mat and on the floor and scoot marks in the front room and bedroom, plus he had poo all up his tail and legs!! He was so upset when I came in, crying and was obviously very embarrassed by it all, poor boy..
> 
> Guess it was the logic then..so will now stop and see how he is..oh will this thing ever let up??


Oh no poor Riley ,he must have been so upset  cats just hate to be dirty.
Couldnt have been much fun for you either :nonod: If only you had been in when it happened to see why it was so bad.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh no poor Riley ,he must have been so upset  cats just hate to be dirty.
> Couldnt have been much fun for you either :nonod: If only you had been in when it happened to see why it was so bad.


Yeah I know..stupid work!! I gave him lots of fuss and talked really nicely to him, as its not his fault..I let him out whilst I cleaned up..he is ok now..like nothing ever happened chewing his nails on my lap 

I wish I had of seen it at least I would have a clear idea as to what happens..

How's mr m after his swimming lesson??


----------



## Tao2

I seem to remember the metronidazole tablets are quite large and Mittens is very small. Tom had liquid metronidazole didn't he? Probably tastes pretty foul. Do you think I should get her the liquid? Or will that be worse than a giant pill?? Arggh


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I seem to remember the metronidazole tablets are quite large and Mittens is very small. Tom had liquid metronidazole didn't he? Probably tastes pretty foul. Do you think I should get her the liquid? Or will that be worse than a giant pill?? Arggh


I would imagine the dose will be an 1/8 th of a tablet..quite small, but just avoid her it hitting her tongue!!


----------



## Tao2

OK that doesn't sound so bad. Maybe they do little tablets so don't have to wreck the coating?? Will ask. 

Buffie, mirtazipine is on my list of things to ask about because am I right in thinking the metronidazole could reduce her already woeful appetite?? Did it do the trick for Mr M.?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> *OK that doesn't sound so bad. Maybe they do little tablets so don't have to wreck the coating?? Will ask*.
> 
> Buffie, mirtazipine is on my list of things to ask about because am I right in thinking the metronidazole could reduce her already woeful appetite?? Did it do the trick for Mr M.?


Doubtful..my vets normally cut them for me..or I cut them myself..


----------



## Matti

Tao2 said:


> I seem to remember the metronidazole tablets are quite large and Mittens is very small. Tom had liquid metronidazole didn't he? Probably tastes pretty foul. Do you think I should get her the liquid? Or will that be worse than a giant pill?? Arggh


Just a quick one because I'm a little drunks... (I think this is becoming a habit!) but yes Tom was on liquid and it was foul but I found it much easier to administer than the tablet- just a quick squeeze of tr syringe and it's over, Tom has this habit of spitting tablets out even if I land them in his throat!

Nicola, I'm so sorry about Riley  poor boy must have been mortified- Tom is whenever he accidentally stands in it when covering it up and that's nowhere near as bad 

Tao, I'm sorry the results weren't as good as we hoped  but if you ever need to donate some enzymes I know a willing donor, and I will donate some of Tom's appetite in return!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I seem to remember the metronidazole tablets are quite large and Mittens is very small. Tom had liquid metronidazole didn't he? Probably tastes pretty foul. Do you think I should get her the liquid? Or will that be worse than a giant pill?? Arggh


Meeko was on a quarter of a 200mg tablet which,when whole would probably be the size of a paracetamol tablet,nice vet nurse quartered them for me


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> OK that doesn't sound so bad. Maybe they do little tablets so don't have to wreck the coating?? Will ask.
> 
> Buffie, mirtazipine is on my list of things to ask about because am I right in thinking the metronidazole could reduce her already woeful appetite?? Did it do the trick for Mr M.?


Metronidazole didnt appear to cut Meeko's appetite thank god,he doesnt eat a lot as it is.
The Mirtazapine worked very well and quickly.When he was at his worst with lack of appetite it had him eating within 2 hours but he was hyper and very loud He was on a quarter tablet every 3 days, if required.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah I know..stupid work!! I gave him lots of fuss and talked really nicely to him, as its not his fault..I let him out whilst I cleaned up..he is ok now..like nothing ever happened chewing his nails on my lap
> 
> I wish I had of seen it at least I would have a clear idea as to what happens..
> 
> How's mr m after his swimming lesson??


I knew I had spoken too soon.He has been very quiet today and been sleeping for most of it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I knew I had spoken too soon.He has been very quiet today and been sleeping for most of it


Oh no..Riley has barely eaten tonight..but not too worried as think an emptier stomach tonight is not a bad idea.tho his energy levels are not too bad, he is currently asking to go out  it's brass monkeys out there..white stuff expected tomorrow


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no..Riley has barely eaten tonight..but not too worried as think an emptier stomach tonight is not a bad idea.tho his energy levels are not too bad, he is currently asking to go out  it's brass monkeys out there..white stuff expected tomorrow


Isnt it sad that we are getting used to these "ups and downs".When this all kicked off I was at the vets so often, now unless it goes on for days at a time we just sit tight and wait for them to pick up again,which usually happens.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Isnt it sad that we are getting used to these "ups and downs".When this all kicked off I was at the vets so often, now unless it goes on for days at a time we just sit tight and wait for them to pick up again,which usually happens.


Could not put it better myself


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> Isnt it sad that we are getting used to these "ups and downs".When this all kicked off I was at the vets so often, now unless it goes on for days at a time we just sit tight and wait for them to pick up again,which usually happens.


Yes same here. Also, I think Mittens has slipped into more lethargy and less eating so gradually that it has been difficult to notice and I have put it down to her getting older and less kittenish in behaviour.

Anyway back from yet another visit to vets, she's on stomorgyl (quarter of a tablet, as predicted by Nicola) and also long lasting ab injection of convenia and B12 injection, can't remember when next b12 injection is due, I know I did ask (brain left in car syndrome, it's the stress). Anyone know how often for B12 injections??

She's upstairs sulking poor love, she was shaking in the vets, I felt awful. Fluff Beast is making up for it though, he is my best friend instead of hers because he doesn't like the smell of her after a vet visit!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Yes same here. Also, I think Mittens has slipped into more lethargy and less eating so gradually that it has been difficult to notice and I have put it down to her getting older and less kittenish in behaviour.
> 
> Anyway back from yet another visit to vets, she's on stomorgyl (quarter of a tablet, as predicted by Nicola) and also long lasting ab injection of convenia and B12 injection, can't remember when next b12 injection is due, I know I did ask (brain left in car syndrome, it's the stress). Anyone know how often for B12 injections??
> 
> She's upstairs sulking poor love, she was shaking in the vets, I felt awful. Fluff Beast is making up for it though, he is my best friend instead of hers because he doesn't like the smell of her after a vet visit!!


Poor Mittens  hope she shows some improvement on the new drugs,Cant help with the B12 Meeko hasnt gone down that road _yet_ . I'm sure Riley has though so I reckon Nicola will be able to answer that question.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Yes same here. Also, I think Mittens has slipped into more lethargy and less eating so gradually that it has been difficult to notice and I have put it down to her getting older and less kittenish in behaviour.
> 
> Anyway back from yet another visit to vets, she's on stomorgyl (quarter of a tablet, as predicted by Nicola) and also long lasting ab injection of convenia and B12 injection, can't remember when next b12 injection is due, I know I did ask (brain left in car syndrome, it's the stress). Anyone know how often for B12 injections??
> 
> She's upstairs sulking poor love, she was shaking in the vets, I felt awful. Fluff Beast is making up for it though, he is my best friend instead of hers because he doesn't like the smell of her after a vet visit!!


B12.. Rile had to have once a week for four weeks! He hated them as they are very painful, they are meant to help boost something..can't remember now, but they had no affect on Riley apart from making him very grumpy!!

Out of interest what direction are they going on this, have they said what the possibilities are? Been reading about the covenia and that seems to treat skin infections and Pasteurella multocida, which from what I read is what you can get from cat bites


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> B12.. Rile had to have once a week for four weeks! He hated them as they are very painful, they are meant to help boost something..can't remember now, but they had no affect on Riley apart from making him very grumpy!!
> 
> Out of interest what direction are they going on this, have they said what the possibilities are? Been reading about the covenia and that seems to treat skin infections and Pasteurella multocida, which from what I read is what you can get from cat bites


Yes, I too have been reading up about convenia and read some awful stuff about it so, as always, am worried. Having said that, I'm sure she has had it before when she had cat flu when she arrived with me. I didn't ask why she had to have both but presume it is to cover a broad spectrum of pathogens because vet thinks most common cause of her profile is infection of some sort. So 6 weeks on combined antibiotics to see if that helps. I can't decide if she is miserable tonight because of treatment or just miserable because of illness. She has forgiven me for the vets and pill though and is sitting on my lap.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Yes, I too have been reading up about convenia and read some awful stuff about it so, as always, am worried. Having said that, I'm sure she has had it before when she had cat flu when she arrived with me. I didn't ask why she had to have both but presume it is to cover a broad spectrum of pathogens because vet thinks most common cause of her profile is infection of some sort. So 6 weeks on combined antibiotics to see if that helps. I can't decide if she is miserable tonight because of treatment or just miserable because of illness. She has forgiven me for the vets and pill though and is sitting on my lap.


Hopefully then they can sort out her infection..poor girl, it's horrible as you are only doing it for the best, but they do not understand..


----------



## jenny armour

buffie said:


> Metronidazole didnt appear to cut Meeko's appetite thank god,he doesnt eat a lot as it is.
> The Mirtazapine worked very well and quickly.When he was at his worst with lack of appetite it had him eating within 2 hours but he was hyper and very loud He was on a quarter tablet every 3 days, if required.


just poking my nose in here, as mirtazapine was given to sonni when he had a cold. same dose but it knocked him for 6 as he has neurological problems, but he got his appetite back


----------



## Cazzer

I was told when I started taking Mirtazapine that it also is a sedative. Since I have been taking it I've had no problems sleeping so assume it would have same effect on cats! 

B12 Oska was also on monthly injections


----------



## buffie

jenny armour said:


> just poking my nose in here, as mirtazapine was given to sonni when he had a cold. same dose but it knocked him for 6 as he has neurological problems, but he got his appetite back


Luckily my vet did warn me it may cause some alarming side effects in his behaviour but they would pass,and he was right,marvellous drug though


----------



## Cazzer

buffie said:


> marvellous drug though


totally agree hate to think what health I would be in without it [never mind what effect it has on our cats]


----------



## Tao2

Cazzer, did B12 injections help Oska? 
Mittens started her regime yesterday morning, today she has been eating really well: she had 3 breakfasts at her own request!!! This is unheard of. I can't see that the antibiotic tablets she is on would work in under 24 hours. So that leaves injections of antibiotics and B12. So am thinking, could it be the B12 injection? Whatever it is, I am so pleased, hope it continues......


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Cazzer, did B12 injections help Oska?
> Mittens started her regime yesterday morning, today she has been eating really well: she had 3 breakfasts at her own request!!! This is unheard of. I can't see that the antibiotic tablets she is on would work in under 24 hours. So that leaves injections of antibiotics and B12. So am thinking, could it be the B12 injection? Whatever it is, I am so pleased, hope it continues......


Fantastic news no matter what the reason is hope it continues


----------



## chillminx

Tao2 -- yes, B12 injections do stimulate appetite


----------



## nicolaa123

chillminx said:


> Tao2 -- yes, B12 injections do stimulate appetite


Apart from Riley....

Pleased mittens is doing well..long may it continue.


----------



## jenny armour

well i took jj to the vets a couple of weeks ago, as he started having the runs and he put him onto stomorgyl which he finished on friday.
he is still being sick has been a couple of times yesterday and today and he has the runs, but it doesnt smell, which bothers me.
he is eating fine and on the whole is lively. when i took him to the vet he mumbled something about thickening of the bowel.
will take him to the vet but am housebound with 16 inches of snow and dont drive


----------



## jenny armour

buffie said:


> Luckily my vet did warn me it may cause some alarming side effects in his behaviour but they would pass,and he was right,marvellous drug though


unfortunately mine didnt, and the vet didnt seem to know it had these side effects and was surprised at what it did to sonni. i decided to take sonni off of them


----------



## Tao2

Jenny, Did the diarrhoea and vomiting come back when he stopped the stormogyl or did he continue to have it whilst he was on it? 

Blimey that's a heck of a lot of snow!!! And it's the end of March, am so sick of Winter, feels like blinking Wuthering Heights having thick snow this late. So depressing.


----------



## jenny armour

Tao2 said:


> Jenny, Did the diarrhoea and vomiting come back when he stopped the stormogyl or did he continue to have it whilst he was on it?
> wpo
> Blimey that's a heck of a lot of snow!!! And it's the end of March, am so sick of Winter, feels like blinking Wuthering Heights having thick snow this late. So depressing.


possibly. he brought up two big furballs last week and he was sick one day when i gave him the tablet, he ended up frothing at the mouth. i think there was a possibly of diarrhoea. its hard to tell with him, because he uses the garden in the pen and so does some of the others. wouldnt the stormogyl still be in his system?


----------



## Tao2

Treatment progress:

Mittens has developed diarrhoea. It's not bad as yet: I think a number 3 on my newly developed Squishy Scale (with 1 being solid and 10 being like water). Am sure it is the Stormogyl causing it. Goodness know how it will be by the time she's been on it for 6 weeks.

Had some mouth frothing issues too.

Also am down to 1 finger typing as all other fingers have painful puncture wounds from her teeth during the pilling nightmare. And I thought Fluff B. was the psychotic medication nightmare. Any finger-saving pilling tips gratefully received. Nicola you can feel very smug for training Riley to accept pills early in life....

Apart from all that, everything is fab., she's lively, eating (not as much as at first, but still more than before treatment started) and has filled out a bit already!

Jenny, How is JJ? Your cats are gorgeous.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry to hear mittens has the runs..Riley had a poo just now, started as a 10 (on your scale) and worked its way down to a 2 

Oh and I won't say that now when I shake the pill bottle Riley will come and sit by my feet and wait for his pill


----------



## Tao2

Think you might be using the inverse squishy scale there Nicola


----------



## jenny armour

tao2. when i was giving jj his pills i had to give him canicur so i put the pill in the canicur. a bit messy but it did the trick.
jj's sickness seems to have stopped, at least i havent seen it since saturday. the non smelly runs is still there but seems less too. maybe it was the pills


----------



## jenny armour

jj is still doing non smelly poos and charley has started up again. anyone tried burns? they are both eating drinking and washing themselves and charley had a blood test which came back negative. cost me £90 because it went abroad to the usa, would you believe.
they were even talking about annaethetising (sp) her to take a sample of her bowel, poor girl is 14 1/2 i am not putting her through that


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> jj is still doing non smelly poos and charley has started up again. anyone tried burns? they are both eating drinking and washing themselves and charley had a blood test which came back negative. cost me £90 because it went abroad to the usa, would you believe.
> they were even talking about annaethetising (sp) her to take a sample of her bowel, poor girl is 14 1/2 i am not putting her through that


Not heard of burns.. What was the blood test for?? I completely understand not wanting put her through that, I don want to with Riley and he is ten years younger!


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> Not heard of burns.. What was the blood test for?? I completely understand not wanting put her through that, I don want to with Riley and he is ten years younger!


i dont know but they had split the test into four categories.. burns is a hollistic food, i know they do dry but not sure if they do wet.


----------



## Tao2

Hi haven't tried it but have thought about Burns as gets good reviews for dodgy tummies but has low meat content so went for higher meat content ones (APplaws and Nutrivet) in the end. Mittens won't touch either but she prefers wet anyway, Fluff Beast gives them the thumbs up.....but then, he gives anything dry the thumbs up.....


----------



## jenny armour

the trouble with charley when she is like this, is she will use one tray then if she has to go again, she will use another and sometimes the carpet. it seems like she is ok on a certain diet for a little while then it comes back.
burns will send you sample packs if you wish to try it


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> the trouble with charley when she is like this, is she will use one tray then if she has to go again, she will use another and sometimes the carpet. it seems like she is ok on a certain diet for a little while then it comes back.
> burns will send you sample packs if you wish to try it


How did she get on with the vet-concept?


----------



## jenny armour

i dont think she was very impressed with it


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> i dont think she was very impressed with it


That's a shame..


----------



## jenny armour

got in touch with burns for some samples, and they suggested scrambled egg with a little water and well cooked rice to try on jj troy torre and charley. torre and troy are having a go but jj - not impressed. havent tried charley yet but am not holding my breath. other than that, i will just have to gradually wean them over to burns. i now have got to get rid of approx 15kgs jwb and 1 1/2 5 kgs of td. mind you i maybe able to send back to hills as they guarantee money back, but we shall see. god cats!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Back from the vets..last time weighed was 4.15 now he is 4.17 am bit disappointed as he has eaten really well, only had bad runny poo four times... So we are still on one pred a day and back in two weeks for another weight check..


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> Back from the vets..last time weighed was 4.15 now he is 4.17 am bit disappointed as he has eaten really well, only had bad runny poo four times... So we are still on one pred a day and back in two weeks for another weight check..


sorry to hear this nicolaa, it is so frustrating when you try everything and nothing seems to work, and yet they are fine in themselves.
i apologise if i dont read everything on here, but have they diagnosed riley with?


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> sorry to hear this nicolaa, it is so frustrating when you try everything and nothing seems to work, and yet they are fine in themselves.
> i apologise if i dont read everything on here, but have they diagnosed riley with?


Yeah it can be frustrating..they are leaning towards ibd..I just can't put him through the whole full biopsy to just confirm it.. I just wished he had put more weight on!!


----------



## Tao2

With you there Nicola, seems to be one step forward then 2 steps back when it comes to weight gain with Mittens.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Back from the vets..last time weighed was 4.15 now he is 4.17 am bit disappointed as he has eaten really well, only had bad runny poo four times... So we are still on one pred a day and back in two weeks for another weight check..


Sorry havnt been around here much recently again ,been trying to shut IBD out of my mind.
Nicola at least Riley is going in the right direction,I would wait till next weigh -in to judge how things are going.
Meeko has been losing weight again,I think he is down to nearly 5kg from 5.5kg 3 months ago  but his appetite has dropped so hardly surprising.Dont want to give him a Mirtazapine if I can avoid it.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry havnt been around here much recently again ,been trying to shut IBD out of my mind.
> Nicola at least Riley is going in the right direction,I would wait till next weigh -in to judge how things are going.
> Meeko has been losing weight again,I think he is down to nearly 5kg from 5.5kg 3 months ago  but his appetite has dropped so hardly surprising.Dont want to give him a Mirtazapine if I can avoid it.


Vet said wait until next weigh in..

Sorry to hear Meeko is loosing weight as well.

My friend says Riley is just doing weight watchers like I do


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Vet said wait until next weigh in..
> 
> Sorry to hear Meeko is loosing weight as well.
> 
> My friend says Riley is just doing weight watchers like I do


I used to go to weight watchers a few years back.A friend and I would be good all week,have a lime and soda in the bar of the hotel the meeting was held in then stop at the chippy on the way back :lol::lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I used to go to weight watchers a few years back.A friend and I would be good all week,have a lime and soda in the bar of the hotel the meeting was held in then stop at the chippy on the way back :lol::lol:


I've done really well..but I do have a treat after weigh in!! I do it online.. I've still got some points left today..may have a small chocolate bar


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I've done really well..but I do have a treat after weigh in!! I do it online.. I've still got some points left today..may have a small chocolate bar


Well done :thumbup1: I no longer have the will power to stick to it :frown2:


----------



## Tao2

Am glad to read all that as I am the person who decided to skip yoga tonight so that I could eat greasy takeaway, loll on sofa and drink beer....:thumbup1:
oh and try to forget about IBD, pancreatitis and whatever the liver thing is called.....


----------



## Tao2

All very quiet on here! Hope it's because all your beasts are doing well. 

Just an update on Mittens (get ready....) since starting treatment 1 week ago she has put on.....250g!!!! Thats right, in a week! Can't quite beleive it. Am so delighted:smilewinkgrin:. Even though I have lost the feeling in the tip of my index finger thanks to a well aimed bite whilst pilling the little devil:cursing:.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> All very quiet on here! Hope it's because all your beasts are doing well.
> 
> Just an update on Mittens (get ready....) since starting treatment 1 week ago she has put on.....250g!!!! Thats right, in a week! Can't quite beleive it. Am so delighted:smilewinkgrin:. Even though I have lost the feeling in the tip of my index finger thanks to a well aimed bite whilst pilling the little devil:cursing:.


Amazing weight gain..long may it continue!!

Riley..well had to clean his bum tonight.. it was one of them graded poo's


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> All very quiet on here! Hope it's because all your beasts are doing well.
> 
> Just an update on Mittens (get ready....) *since starting treatment 1 week ago she has put on.....250g!!!! Thats right, in a week*! Can't quite beleive it. Am so delighted:smilewinkgrin:. Even though I have lost the feeling in the tip of my index finger thanks to a well aimed bite whilst pilling the little devil:cursing:.


Fantastic :thumbsup: long may it continue  
Nothing much to report here.Meeko is "just the same" eating but without any real enthusiasm,but nothing new there 
Hope your finger gets its feeling back


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Amazing weight gain..long may it continue!!
> *
> Riley..well had to clean his bum tonight.. it was one of them graded poo's:rolleyes*:


Not nice :arf: Hope you have a "bum wiping free" w/end


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not nice :arf: Hope you have a "bum wiping free" w/end


Well it's not been too bad on the poo front 

However Riley seems bit "depressed", hardly eaten today, about 25g if that! All he has wanted to do is sleep. The last thing he needs is for his appetite to slow down.

I really want him to get stable so I can again try some different foods with him. I'm growing ever paranoid vet-concept will stop doing kangaroo!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Scrap that he has just cleared his dish :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## buffie

We've had a very _slow_ w/end.Not a great appetite and a bit quieter than usual,but just as I dug out the Mirtazapine he scoffed nearly 50gms of wet in one go for breakfast and had most of the other 50gms for lunch + some dry. :crazy: There is just no pattern here at all


----------



## nicolaa123

There have been a few threads on here of late..my cat has or suspected ibd, this has got me thinking (never a good idea I know)..

When is it a food intolerance/allergy and when is it ibd. Now I know that ibd only confirmed with the dreaded full biopsy, but many other indicators can show its likely to be.

Raw is suggested as a good diet for ibd, tho when I have looked on American yahoo groups, not many of them are advocates of the raw diet with cats with ibd.

Single protein, novel especially, grain free, hydrolized food is also the way to feed, but again many of us with "likely" ibd cats, still see symptoms when we feed said foods, have sucess with said foods. Then inappetence kicks in, or food is expelled from one end or the other, weight is loss, despite eating.

So is ibd really just food related or is that the only thing that vets know the best way, with out drugs to try and fix. So is it just a food allergy in some cases? Rather than ibd?






Not much point to my post, just my musings!!

Riley seems to be ok, had couple days not really eating, we are about the 200g mark ish..back to vets on Wednesday for another weight check, if he has put on we can start to cut the steroids..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> There have been a few threads on here of late..my cat has or suspected ibd, this has got me thinking (never a good idea I know)..
> 
> *When is it a food intolerance/allergy and when is it ibd. Now I know that ibd only confirmed with the dreaded full biopsy, but many other indicators can show its likely to be.*Raw is suggested as a good diet for ibd, tho when I have looked on American yahoo groups, not many of them are advocates of the raw diet with cats with ibd.
> 
> Single protein, novel especially, grain free, hydrolized food is also the way to feed, but again many of us with "likely" ibd cats, still see symptoms when we feed said foods, have sucess with said foods. Then inappetence kicks in, or food is expelled from one end or the other, weight is loss, despite eating.
> 
> So is ibd really just food related or is that the only thing that vets know the best way, with out drugs to try and fix. So is it just a food allergy in some cases? Rather than ibd?
> 
> Not much point to my post, just my musings!!
> 
> Riley seems to be ok, had couple days not really eating, we are about the 200g mark ish..back to vets on Wednesday for another weight check, if he has put on we can start to cut the steroids..


Below taken from google search...........
What causes IBD in cats?
The cause of IBD is still unknown although evidence suggests that it could be the result of certain bacteria, dietary allergy or intolerance, genetic influence & parasites causing cats to produce antibodies that attack their own digestive tract. It has also been suggested that there is an inappropriate immune response to the natural flora in the intestine.

Kind of explains in a way,looks like it can have many causes food intolerance being only one .

Meeko had a day of "not so well formed" litter deposits,all I can put that down to was a small tin of food he hasnt had for a few weeks,but has eaten fine before.


----------



## nicolaa123

So if it is managed by food alone, would that point to a food allergy rather than ibd? Plus if it is ibd, why would it matter what you fed..

Poor Meeko.. let's hope it was just the food and he won't be in the poo watch gang..


----------



## Cazzer

Karlo's problem I am convinced stemmed from his over exuberant consumption of grass. I think it fermented in his tum causing him to have a bad belly which led him to walk on his tummy. Since then grass is strictly not allowed. Since then [but definately not before, as I thought he had a cast iron tum, when he was a kitten ] he has had dire rear when having certain foods. I think the dire rear started after his biopsy.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Karlo's problem I am convinced stemmed from his over exuberant consumption of grass. I think it fermented in his tum causing him to have a bad belly which led him to walk on his tummy. Since then grass is strictly not allowed. Since then [but definately not before, as I thought he had a cast iron tum, when he was a kitten ] he has had dire rear when having certain foods. I think the dire rear started after his biopsy.


So something is a trigger for the inflammation that never heals, therefore other triggers, not necessarily food can then cause a flare up. Therefore if a cat has runs/vomit and is controlled by a diet, that must point to a food allergy rather than ibd.?

Interesting you say about grass, Riley has always been a grass eater..wonder if that could have started his problems 

Oh and I'm on another food mission.. I really need to try and find another food, even if was just one more he could tolerate.


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh and I'm on another food mission.. I really need to try and find another food, even if was just one more he could tolerate.


Grau sensitive lamb with spelt any good? I bought some for Karlo to try and he won't touch it. The others like it mind . He's also had some of the Grau chicken gizzards in jelly and liked it [and it suited him]. Its meant be the 'light' option though so probably not suitable for Riley


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> So if it is managed by food alone, would that point to a food allergy rather than ibd? Plus if it is ibd, why would it matter what you fed..
> 
> Poor Meeko.. let's hope it was just the food and he won't be in the poo watch gang..


My limited understanding,and it is _very limited_ ,is that if there is a food intolerance the resulting reaction can affect the gut lining which causes the "inflammatory" part of IBD :blink: :blink: does that make any sense


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Grau sensitive lamb with spelt any good? I bought some for Karlo to try and he won't touch it. The others like it mind . He's also had some of the Grau chicken gizzards in jelly and liked it [and it suited him]. Its meant be the 'light' option though so probably not suitable for Riley


I'm toying with lamb..will have to have a look to see if there are any hidden extras!! Chicken is a no no tho..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> My limited understanding,and it is _very limited_ ,is that if there is a food intolerance the resulting reaction can affect the gut lining which causes the "inflammatory" part of IBD :blink: :blink: does that make any sense


It does in a way, but what does not is that if you find a food that does not cause a reaction, they can still have reactions


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm toying with lamb..will have to have a look to see if there are any hidden extras!! Chicken is a no no tho..


Ok let me know if you want some of the tins. I've just put some down next to a bowl of turkey Grau. Every cat apart from Karlo went to the lamb. Karlo of course went to the turkey. I can't even mix it with his RC as have tried that and he refused to eat it. Lucky that Karlo seems to like the chicken and turkey Grau plus ropocat and om nom nom


----------



## nicolaa123

The mutton looks good, I have no idea what spelt is 

It's pricey tho isn't it!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It does in a way, but what does not is that if you find a food that does not cause a reaction, they can still have reactions


Again only my understanding,once the gut lining is damaged/thickened or whatever,even after a food which can be tolerated is found,the gut lining is damaged and even although there is no longer any reaction being caused by the food,the damaged which has already been done will still show reactions until it has repaired its self,that is if it can.I could be talking utter tripe here , it has been known 

Spelt is a member of the wheat family I think.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Again only my understanding,once the gut lining is damaged/thickened or whatever,even after a food which can be tolerated is found,the gut lining is damaged and even although there is no longer any reaction being caused by the food,the damaged which has already been done will still show reactions until it has repaired its self,that is if it can.I could be talking utter tripe here , it has been known


Unfortunately you are talking sense...........this why we can only hope to manage and not cure..


----------



## Cazzer

Spelt is a grain that's often used instead of wheat flour. It does come in lot bigger tins on fms and perhaps floyds and are a lot more reasonable. I only got those tins to try and wouldn't get them from the zoo again


----------



## nicolaa123

Interesting spelt is a gluten free alternative..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Interesting spelt is a gluten free alternative..


Dont think it is ........
Some people claim they can eat spelt even though they're sensitive to wheat. That may be true, but it actually has more protein than wheat, and the protein contains gluten, so it's not suitable for a gluten-free diet. If you're sensitive to wheat or other grains, you should speak to your health care provider before eating spelt


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Dont think it is ........
> Some people claim they can eat spelt even though they're sensitive to wheat. That may be true, but it actually has more protein than wheat, and the protein contains gluten, so it's not suitable for a gluten-free diet. If you're sensitive to wheat or other grains, you should speak to your health care provider before eating spelt


Ahhhhhhh, thought was too good to be true


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ahhhhhhh, thought was too good to be true


I wasnt being clever there I had just googled it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I wasnt being clever there I had just googled it


Ha! I was wondering why you was saying for me to consult my health care professional rrr:


----------



## Matti

Sorry guys, have been AWOL for a while due to a few personal things but am back now!!

Tom is doing okay, he's on pred once a day, he's clearing 1-1.5 tins of Hills z/d wet a day (recommended intake is 2/3-1 tin per day) and he's getting his enzymes..... But no weight gain, and still dire rear problems... It's darker and less smelly on the pred but sometimes sloppy and sometimes not... Very frustrating! 

Strangest thing is that seems to genuinely enjoy the z/d, despite the fact it STINKS to high heaven and is the colour and consistency of play-doh. 

Had a little read back on everything that's happening so am well up to date with how everyone else is doing  sorry I've not been around to offer support!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Sorry guys, have been AWOL for a while due to a few personal things but am back now!!
> 
> Tom is doing okay, he's on pred once a day, he's clearing 1-1.5 tins of Hills z/d wet a day (recommended intake is 2/3-1 tin per day) and he's getting his enzymes..... But no weight gain, and still dire rear problems... It's darker and less smelly on the pred but sometimes sloppy and sometimes not... Very frustrating!
> 
> Strangest thing is that seems to genuinely enjoy the z/d, despite the fact it STINKS to high heaven and is the colour and consistency of play-doh.
> 
> Had a little read back on everything that's happening so am well up to date with how everyone else is doing  sorry I've not been around to offer support!!


 I was just thinking were you ok...

Oh and Tom likes the z/d 

Lets hope we all see some weight gain in our cats


----------



## buffie

Hi Matti nice to see you back with us, Agree with Nicola,  Tom likes the Z/D wet :w00t: :arf: poor boy he has no taste at all


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> I was just thinking were you ok...
> 
> Oh and Tom likes the z/d
> 
> Lets hope we all see some weight gain in our cats


Thanks, yeah fine and glad to be back!!

I know, can't believe he likes it either!!! The smell makes me heave in the mornings when I put his food down. But ....... I think he just likes food in general, he's never really been put off eating. He does look at it and look at me every morning as if to say 'are you joking?! Not this again!' but when I get back from work I have clean bowls and he's asking for more... My only explanation is he has no tastebuds or sense of smell!

And yes here's to hoping all our little ones finally start on some weight gain!!!


----------



## Cazzer

Good to hear how he is getting on with it! Blimy Matti he actually likes the z/d he must be a strange cat!!!


do you want me to send the rest of it? I'd send it 2nd class so it wouldn't cost as much. It would be good to be rid of it!


----------



## Matti

Cazzer, if you don't want it, I would be glad to take it off your hands... It works out over £1 a can to buy it online plus postage, plus I need it and you don't so it seems a fine solution to me!! 

I know Tom is a little freak of nature!! He especially likes it when it's been sitting out a few hours so my house stinks before he eats it!! I sometimes wonder if he does it on purpose!!


----------



## Cazzer

Ok will have to be next week before I can sort it out as leaving for a weekend away shortly!


----------



## Matti

Cazzer said:


> Ok will have to be next week before I can sort it out as leaving for a weekend away shortly!


Ooh lucky lady!! Enjoy!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well Riley had a bad time yesterday..I did not see it as went out for a walk..but his poor bum was so sore after and had to clean him up.. I don't get it he has been ok then bang!! He has been better today..tho his bum still looks so raw and red..fine in himself and not bothered by it at all..

His bum looks ok until he cleans then he seems to lick his bum until it bleeds..I'm considering putting a collar on to give his poor bum a chance..

Vets Wednesday..don't think we need to go before then, will just keep my eye on him. I think (clasp at straws) maybe it's too much food I've been feeding him again..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well Riley had a bad time yesterday..I did not see it as went out for a walk..but his poor bum was so sore after and had to clean him up.. I don't get it he has been ok then bang!! He has been better today..tho his bum still looks so raw and red..fine in himself and not bothered by it at all..
> 
> His bum looks ok until he cleans then he seems to lick his bum until it bleeds..I'm considering putting a collar on to give his poor bum a chance..
> 
> Vets Wednesday..don't think we need to go before then, will just keep my eye on him. I think (clasp at straws) maybe it's too much food I've been feeding him again..


Poor Riley  Just a thought,could his anus be "irritated" in some way by the "dire rear" causing him to continually lick making it bleed in a sort of vicious circle,cats tongues I would think can damage sensitive tissue.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley  Just a thought,could his anus be "irritated" in some way by the "dire rear" causing him to continually lick making it bleed in a sort of vicious circle,cats tongues I would think can damage sensitive tissue.


That's what I'm thinking too..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> That's what I'm thinking too..


My old diabetic girl had a spell of "dire rear"which caused her to continually lick her bum until she had it red raw.
She had to wear a collar when not being supervised and had to have "I think" a steroid creme applied,I remember I was supposed to wear surgical gloves to apply it.


----------



## nicolaa123

Education - Inflammatory Bowel Disease | Alpenglow Veterinary Specialty + Emergency Center

This is interesting, especially the part about immune-mediated cause..

Riley's bum looks better today, I was going to take him to vets, but I will wait until Wednesday..I will ask them about the steroid cream for his bum..sounds like a good idea, not that Riley would agree!!


----------



## nicolaa123

The answer to this question is a bit complex in that there are quite a few causes and laboratory testing as well as intestinal biopsies are needed to try and identify the cause(s) in any given individual. Furthermore, it is not always possible to identify an exact cause in every patient. Some of the more common causes include allergic triggers (such as allergies to a dietary ingredient or an allergic response to intestinal parasites), infectious agents (such as bacterial, fungal, protozoal, or mycobacterial organisms), abnormalities or inflammation in the intestinal lymphatic system (lymphangiectasia), tumor infiltration (such as lymphosarcoma), breed predisposition in some (such as the Siamese, German shepherd, Basenji, Wheaten Terrier, and Shar Pei,), and immune-mediated cause. Immune-mediated inflammatory bowel disease is one of the more common (and unfortunately less well understood) causes of IBD in dogs and cats. In this condition, the bodys immune system suddenly sees parts of the normal intestinal tract as foreign and launches a self-attack which is associated with the infiltration of inflammatory cells. In some cases, it is theorized that other underlying triggers (such as those mentioned above) may serve to alter the normal appearance of the intestinal cells such that they now appear as foreign. In other cases, no such triggering cause is found despite a thorough history and diagnostics. If no triggering cause can be identified, the immune-mediated inflammatory bowel disease is called idiopathic. Idiopathic inflammatory bowel disease accounts for a large percentage of cases diagnosed in the dog and cat. 




This makes sense!!


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear about Riley's bum. Glad to hear its better today x


----------



## buffie

I found a similar report the one I posted in post number "1424" it was taken from here..Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) in Cats-Causes, Symptoms & Treatment | Cat Health Collection
It does seem to point to there being many causes


----------



## nicolaa123

I keep hoping the more searching and looking I do, I will come across something that helps!! Sadly not the case 

I've let him out in the sunshine. Was just giving him a brush outside, his favourite place to be sat is on top of the brown wheelie bin.. He feels so bony on his hips I could cry..

I've been looking at the raw food route..think I will order a bag of the barf kangaroo and see if he likes it..as I will only be giving him small amount in his canned stuff, I don't think I would need to worry about supplementing right away..


----------



## nicolaa123

Just taken this picture of him..he has that overgrown coat look


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I keep hoping the more searching and looking I do, I will come across something that helps!! Sadly not the case
> 
> I've let him out in the sunshine. Was just giving him a brush outside, his favourite place to be sat is on top of the brown wheelie bin.. He feels so bony on his hips I could cry..
> 
> I've been looking at the raw food route..think I will order a bag of the barf kangaroo and see if he likes it..as I will only be giving him small amount in his canned stuff, I don't think I would need to worry about supplementing right away..


Good luck,I know for certain Meeko would be horrified if i asked him to eat "raw " anything


----------



## Cazzer

Karlo would be the same! Only cat out of eight that refuses to touch it!


----------



## nicolaa123

I can only try..I'm not sure he will take to it either..


----------



## Matti

Sorry to hear he wasn't so good yesterday Nicola and hoping he has had a much better day all day today!!

I would go with anything you can feed him to be honest- it can't get any worse so I'd try anything that helps, an I've heard rave reviews about raw and IBD. 

I know how you feel about not finding answers- it's like the more you read about it the more confusing it all is  we're pretty sure now that Tom's problem is his immune system attacking itself, and it's obviously something he was born with.... Hopefully with Riley, trying some different food might help steady him out and help with weight gain.

Also, he is beautiful in that photo!! And weirdly enough I took one of Tom today looking almost exactly the same!! Are we sure they aren't related?!


----------



## Matti

Tom looking like Riley....


----------



## Cazzer

That's two handsome tabby boys there!


----------



## nicolaa123

They do look alike!!










Tom is sooo cute!!


----------



## Matti

So is Riley!!!!  have beautiful boys!!


----------



## Matti

Nic, question about the pred. Do you find it makes Riley pee more?? The vet said it would but I actually find him peeing as often as normal but the same size, no extra drinking really either... I do worry he's not drinking enough because the vet said he should be drinking and peeing more.

Tom is pretty good today, normal looking stools for a change... But that usually means the next time he goes it'll be massive and squidgy


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Nic, question about the pred. Do you find it makes Riley pee more?? The vet said it would but I actually find him peeing as often as normal but the same size, no extra drinking really either... I do worry he's not drinking enough because the vet said he should be drinking and peeing more.
> 
> Tom is pretty good today, normal looking stools for a change... But that usually means the next time he goes it'll be massive and squidgy


Vet asked me the same..he is not eating more and not peeing more either and still does not drink from his water bowl..only moisture he gets is from his food..vet said this is good that he is not drinking or peeing more!!

Pleased Tom is doing better and long live normal looking poo


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Vet asked me the same..he is not eating more and not peeing more either and still does not drink from his water bowl..only moisture he gets is from his food..vet said this is good that he is not drinking or peeing more!!
> 
> Pleased Tom is doing better and long live normal looking poo


Okay so Tom is the same... Eats normally, and barely drinks from his bowl (once every few days!!)... Very occasionally only, mainly because the z/d isn't as wet I think. So that's a good thing huh? Good to know!!

Is Riley still on one pred every day?? Have they tried to reduce him to every other day? I think Tom will be soon...


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Okay so Tom is the same... Eats normally, and barely drinks from his bowl (once every few days!!)... Very occasionally only, mainly because the z/d isn't as wet I think. So that's a good thing huh? Good to know!!
> 
> Is Riley still on one pred every day?? Have they tried to reduce him to every other day? I think Tom will be soon...


Still on one per day, will find out Wednesday if we can start to reduce the meds..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, pleased to report a normal poo, was very very dark, but nice and firm. Plus his bum looked fine after  

I'm dreading Wednesday and the weight check..it may just be me but he feels more bony and looks more skinny in his waist..we will see..

Hope all yours are doing well..


----------



## Tao2

Hope goes OK for Riley on Wednesday. Been away for a few days and had to leave friend who looks after pets to dose Mittens with metronidazole, amazingly she managed it and still has all her fingers but Mittens now hates her....She didn't eat too well whilst we were away and had lost weight at her vets visit today. She has also been vomiting quite a lot. Very depressing. Since I got back, no vomit and eating really well but won't let me out of her sight in case I go off again!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hope goes OK for Riley on Wednesday. Been away for a few days and had to leave friend who looks after pets to dose Mittens with metronidazole, amazingly she managed it and still has all her fingers but Mittens now hates her....She didn't eat too well whilst we were away and had lost weight at her vets visit today. She has also been vomiting quite a lot. Very depressing. Since I got back, no vomit and eating really well but won't let me out of her sight in case I go off again!


Hope mittens forgives you and puts weight on..

Did you go anywhere nice?


----------



## nicolaa123

Well not good news he has lost weight now down to 4.07 kg  vet is baffled as he should have put on weight by now with the steroids he is on.

She is going to ring the referral vets to ask them what else they can suggest as we have tested for so much and ruled out so much. The only thing she said was if we go down the referral route they will want to do their own scan, endeoscopy and the full biopsy. I have said I'm not happy to put him through the full biopsy as he just would not respond well to it. I asked if he was to have the full biopsy is it likely to give us an answer. She said that it could still could be a "likely to be" rather than it is answer as it depends on the person reading the results. She said there has been cases when the same biopsy has been sent to two different labs and they have come back with different results. 

I just don't think I could put him through the stress of it not to get a definitive answer to his problem. 

I have also given her the website details Carly put about the diarrhoea vaccine. I have not had a reply from them myself, but she said she will look into it.

Also she said we can increase the steroids to one tablet twice a day for ten days, but she will confirm the next course of action once she has spoke to the other vet referral place. She said we could only do this for ten days due to his age and that we really need to start tapering him off not increasing the dose!!

She also said there was another drug we could try but I cant think what she called it now.

So for now it's one steroid a day and she will call me by Friday to advise next thing for us to do.

Feel rubbish..


----------



## buffie

Oh Nicola not the news we were all hoping for .I know when Meeko was on the steroids he didnt put on any weight either.It was only when we stopped all meds that he started to pick up,even when he was having his odd "vomit"episodes he mantained his weight 
Having Riley referred is a good thing but I understand your reluctance to have a full thickness biopsy done,when there really is no guarantee that it will produce an answer.
If there is a referral then you can discuss all options and yes doing their own scans/endoscopy ect is likely to be asked for,but it is still your decision whether he has surgery.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh Nicola not the news we were all hoping for .I know when Meeko was on the steroids he didnt put on any weight either.It was only when we stopped all meds that he started to pick up,even when he was having his odd "vomit"episodes he mantained his weight
> Having Riley referred is a good thing but I understand your reluctance to have a full thickness biopsy done,when there really is no guarantee that it will produce an answer.
> If there is a referral then you can discuss all options and yes doing their own scans/endoscopy ect is likely to be asked for,but it is still your decision whether he has surgery.


Yeah, it has hit me a bit hard to be honest, even tho I knew he had lost as could feel it.

Initially she is asking them for advice any referral would have to wait until he is 6 weeks clear of the steroids, which considering he would need 4 weeks tapering it would be a good ten weeks before they would start any tests...but am happy she is going to talk to them as they may have come across this before and can say oh it's this or oh it's that..or have you tried this or have you tried that

Ok maybe clutching a straws there a bit..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah, it has hit me a bit hard to be honest, even tho I knew he had lost as could feel it.
> 
> Initially she is asking them for advice any referral would have to wait until he is 6 weeks clear of the steroids, which considering he would need 4 weeks tapering it would be a good ten weeks before they would start any tests...but am happy she is going to talk to them as they may have come across this before and can say oh it's this or oh it's that..or have you tried this or have you tried that
> 
> Ok maybe clutching a straws there a bit..


Actually I'm a bit surprised that she hasnt done this before now.After Meeko had his scan/endoscopy ect and the results came back as inconclusive my vet emailed a copy of Meeko's history and results to someone at the Royal Dick Veterinary College at the Bush outside Edinburgh to ask for their advice and they agreed that it was most likely IBD and that they would see him with a view to performing a coned endoscopy which may give a better view .I still have this option if he gets any worse.As you say they are the experts and deal with this much more than a vet in a clinic.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Actually I'm a bit surprised that she hasnt done this before now.After Meeko had his scan/endoscopy ect and the results came back as inconclusive my vet emailed a copy of Meeko's history and results to someone at the Royal Dick Veterinary College at the Bush outside Edinburgh to ask for their advice and they agreed that it was most likely IBD and that they would see him with a view to performing a coned endoscopy which may give a better view .I still have this option if he gets any worse.As you say they are the experts and deal with this much more than a vet in a clinic.


I think that because after first scan and endescopy he put weight back on and was doing much better until Christmas time, she has not spoken to them. With the change of food he did seem to be doing better for a while.

She did talk about that they could do more biopsy via endoscopy..I would be ok with this I think..but I need to give him a break from vet trips as well. When he went in his carrier this afternoon, he was spinning around in it like Tasmanian devil..

It's hard to weigh it up to be honest the need for more test and the time to do them and the need for him to have a break from the stress..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I think that because after first scan and endescopy he put weight back on and was doing much better until Christmas time, she has not spoken to them. With the change of food he did seem to be doing better for a while.
> 
> She did talk about that they could do more biopsy via endoscopy..I would be ok with this I think..but I need to give him a break from vet trips as well. When he went in his carrier this afternoon, he was spinning around in it like Tasmanian devil..
> *
> It's hard to weigh it up to be honest the need for more test and the time to do them and the need for him to have a break from the stress*..


Totally agree I think a lot of good can be undone with too many vets visits/tests ect.it can often make a not so good situation a lot worse.


----------



## nicolaa123

I am going to try and give him a months break from it all if I can as he needs a break.

What made it worse was a couple I was talking to in waiting room was taking their cat in to be pts..you could see with their cat it was time, poor little cat..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am going to try and give him a months break from it all if I can as he needs a break.
> 
> What made it worse was a couple I was talking to in waiting room was taking their cat in to be pts..you could see with their cat it was time, poor little cat..


I did that with meeko and he did so well and then he stopped eating and after a couple of days of worry i took him in to be seen.Okay he did start eating but he was upset by it all and it took a while for him to get back to anything close to his version of normal.

I hate when i find someone in the waiting room like that it is so sad,usually it doesnt happen with my vet as they will take clients in another door if they know the circumstances in advance.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I did that with meeko and he did so well and then he stopped eating and after a couple of days of worry i took him in to be seen.Okay he did start eating but he was upset by it all and it took a while for him to get back to anything close to his version of normal.
> 
> I hate when i find someone in the waiting room like that it is so sad,usually it doesnt happen with my vet as they will take clients in another door if they know the circumstances in advance.


They did ask them but they was happy to wait in the waiting room


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> They did ask them but they was happy to wait in the waiting room


How strange .I wouldnt want everyone looking while I bawled my eyes out,which I would do, and have before now and no doubt will again


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> How strange .I wouldnt want everyone looking while I bawled my eyes out,which I would do, and have before now and no doubt will again


I thought the same..


----------



## nicolaa123

I had a reply from the battlab people..

Hi Nicola,

Thank you for your interest in our vaccine. As you can see from the page on
our web-site (BattLab :: Customised Oral Vaccines for Cat and Dog Diarrhoea), there are a variety of
potential causes of chronic diarrhoea, and a variety of lab tests to help
come to a diagnosis. IBD is not uncommon in cats, and there is accumulating
evidence that intestinal bacteria play a key driving role, hence the
tendency to prescribe oral antibiotics as part of the management. Our
vaccine is an alternative to antibiotics to help manage chronic diarrhoea
with a variety of causes including IBD. It's definitely worth a try, and if
you take the request form and free-post label into your vet with a small
faecal sample to ask for a prescription, I'd be happy to talk to your vet if
they want more information specifically relevant to your cat, and they'll be
able to give you the cost including any charge for the prescription.

Only thing that makes me bit nervous is currently Riley is ok on the poo front..maybe one occurrence a week, two is a bad week since being on the steroids..I will be interested in what my vet finds out tho about it..


----------



## Cazzer

That looks interesting Nicola, be good to know more about that. Shame that Riley has lost weight

Said about the puss. Our vets always let us go in a empty surgery if there is one available and then leave by the back exit.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> That looks interesting Nicola, be good to know more about that. Shame that Riley has lost weight
> 
> Said about the puss. Our vets always let us go in a empty surgery if there is one available and then leave by the back exit.


Yeah I'm still upset by his weight loss..he is fine in himself, I worry more that when we do stop steroids if he looses even more, but we will cross that bridge etc etc.

It was sad about the cat, got me thinking tho if/when Riley's time comes (hopefully not for many many many years) I would have it done at home


----------



## Cazzer

Two parcels sent off this morning to Riley and Tom. Second class post


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Two parcels sent off this morning to Riley and Tom. Second class post


Thank you..

Riley seems ok last few days been pain in the bum at 4 am each morning..apart from last night I needed sleep so closed bedroom door and what happened?? I slept in..and got up late  only thing woke me was Riley telling me off from the other side of the door..good job as would have been even more late for work!!

But was soooooooo nice to have a full sleep


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks cazzer food got here today..Riley had actually opened the envelope and managed to get the tins out lucky he does not have thumbs, otherwise I think he would have helped himself.. Took me ages to find the envelope!!


----------



## Cazzer

Blimey that was quick. Had to smile at Riley little beggar!

BTW Karlo had me up at 230 yesterday wanting food


----------



## Matti

Have only just seen this- been rather preoccupied...

Thanks Cazzer, very very much appreciated- not received it yet but will let you know when I do!!  

Tom has been doing pretty good recently, solid-ish poos, eating a decent amount of food.... Am worrying already whether he is going to deteriorate once he comes off te steroids, but we'll see!

In the meantime, I'm willing him to put on enough weight to reach 2kg+ so I can have him 'done'....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Have only just seen this- been rather preoccupied...
> 
> Thanks Cazzer, very very much appreciated- not received it yet but will let you know when I do!!
> 
> Tom has been doing pretty good recently, solid-ish poos, eating a decent amount of food.... Am worrying already whether he is going to deteriorate once he comes off te steroids, but we'll see!
> 
> In the meantime, I'm willing him to put on enough weight to reach 2kg+ so I can have him 'done'....


Come on Tom.........!! You need to have a little snip 

Riley is now sat by the tins of food....not sure when I am going to try them as yet..:sosp:

Vet called today, no news as yet, she is waiting fir the referral vet to come back to her, she hopes to have something on Wednesday.

I have been thinking tho. I may say to her I want to start tapering him off the steroids..for one if he has the referral he will need to be clear of them and two I want to see if when he is off them he improves with his weight or not. His poo is still very dark and yesterday bit sloppy on the end, but nothing that alarms me.

Plus I want him to have a break from meds and vet trips .. So what I would like is to taper off, weight check in a months time..unless I need to go back earlier..but I will see what she says..


----------



## Matti

I personally think that's a good idea Nicola. The meds and the vet visits are probably stressing Riley out at least a little so maybe without the worry of meds and the vet you'll finally start to see some improvement. Fingers crossed for that 

As for Tom, I think he's doing it on purpose in order to remain 'intact' LOL!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well spoke to the vets..the referral vet listed all the tests we have done, said only thing left is the full biopsy, they agree it is quite likely it's ibd.

So he is on a steroid tablet twice a day for next 14 days then a weight check if that does not work there is another drug, which I think she said was chlorambucil which is a stronger drug..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well spoke to the vets..the referral vet listed all the tests we have done, said only thing left is the full biopsy, they agree it is quite likely it's ibd.
> 
> So he is on a steroid tablet twice a day for next 14 days then a weight check if that does not work there is another drug, which I think she said was chlorambucil which is a stronger drug..


Not sure whether to say thank god they agree that it is IBD or to feel sad that apart from the "biopsy option" they cant offer any other solution.
Looks like you are at the same stage I am re specialist opinion,like you I am very reluctant to put Meeko through surgery if all it will prove is that it is IBD especially when virtually every other possibility has been ruled out 
Hope the steroids have an effect or the other drug ,if needed,proves useful


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not sure whether to say thank god they agree that it is IBD or to feel sad that apart from the "biopsy option" they cant offer any other solution.
> Looks like you are at the same stage I am re specialist opinion,like you I am very reluctant to put Meeko through surgery if all it will prove is that it is IBD especially when virtually every other possibility has been ruled out
> Hope the steroids have an effect or the other drug ,if needed,proves useful


I'm not all that suprised that the biopsy is only thing left as we have tried so many other things. I have said no to the biopsy because I think the stress will be too much for him and I think he would give up. He is getting depressed at how much time he has to stay in, so I've let him out and he is laying in the sunshine and I swear he is smiling!!

I'm not all that happy about increasing the steroids..but no other choice, I do need to keep an eye on him tho..fingers crossed in two weeks he has at least maintained his weight, that's all I can hope for 

How is Meeko doing?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm not all that suprised that the biopsy is only thing left as we have tried so many other things. I have said no to the biopsy because I think the stress will be too much for him and I think he would give up. He is getting depressed at how much time he has to stay in, so I've let him out and he is laying in the sunshine and I swear he is smiling!!
> 
> I'm not all that happy about increasing the steroids..but no other choice, I do need to keep an eye on him tho..fingers crossed in two weeks he has at least maintained his weight, that's all I can hope for
> 
> How is Meeko doing?


I hope too that the steroids do the job,they did nothing for Meeko and to be honest I'm not too upset by that as i ,like you dont like the thought of them.
Meeko is doing fairly well,no vomit since Mid January but he looks to be on antacids for the a while yet at least.
He seems happy enough and although not eating lots of food he is maintaining his appetite and poss putting back a little of the weight he lost ,but that could all change tomorrow


----------



## nicolaa123

That's the thing, it can change on a daily basis...that's what gives me a headache!!

Hope Meeko does put his weight back on, if he has any spare........


----------



## Cazzer

Topping up the vibes for you all, I think you need it as I think you all have a harder time than I do with Karlo. He seems far more stable than all of yours.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forgot to add my vet is not keen to try the vaccine against diarrhoea. She said there has been no clinical trials and no information on the vaccine and also the referral vet had not heard of it either so she is reluctant to try the vaccine route..


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Forgot to add my vet is not keen to try the vaccine against diarrhoea. She said there has been no clinical trials and no information on the vaccine and also the referral vet had not heard of it either so she is reluctant to try the vaccine route..


Hmmm no clinical trials would worry me somewhat- maybe better safe than sorry??

Sorry to you and to Buffie about Meeko  I hope that something starts to perk them up soon!!! Maybe the change in the weather will help *crosses fingers*

Cazzer, my parcel arrived today- just as I opened the last tin!!! PERFECT TIMING, thank you so much!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Hmmm no clinical trials would worry me somewhat- maybe better safe than sorry??
> 
> Sorry to you and to Buffie about Meeko  I hope that something starts to perk them up soon!!! Maybe the change in the weather will help *crosses fingers*
> 
> Cazzer, my parcel arrived today- just as I opened the last tin!!! PERFECT TIMING, thank you so much!!


Yeah made me think hmmmmmmmm....I may email the company again and ask if they are planning to do any trials....search carries on!!


----------



## nicolaa123

You know when you have been to the vets a lot, when you walk in to get more tablets and they don't ask your name, they just know who you are..


----------



## Cazzer

I don't even have to check in anymore at mine!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You know when you have been to the vets a lot, when you walk in to get more tablets and they don't ask your name, they just know who you are..


Oh yes  Not quite the fame I had hoped for  :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

He is also known by his cat carrier  luckily he did not have to come this time, he is back week on Wednesday..


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm in two minds..I still have not tried the lamb that cazzer kindly sent for Riley..he has been quite good, had some back issues, but all in all not bad, I think the times he has had has been down to me over feeding him 

Plus I think he may have put a little bit weight on as I can't feel his hip bones as much when I stroke him. 

I'm scared to feed a different food and also scared not to, I'm paranoid vet concept will stop selling kangaroo, I've just placed an order for 42 x 400g tins!! But I'm also scared at this stage to take a risk as I desperately want him to put weight on so we can avoid the next stronger drug. Oh and I'm also scared once we taper off and stop the steroids he will go back to how he was 

Hope all your ibd'ers are doing well


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm in two minds..I still have not tried the lamb that cazzer kindly sent for Riley..he has been quite good, had some back issues, but all in all not bad, I think the times he has had has been down to me over feeding him
> 
> Plus I think he may have put a little bit weight on as I can't feel his hip bones as much when I stroke him.
> 
> I'm scared to feed a different food and also scared not to, I'm paranoid vet concept will stop selling kangaroo, I've just placed an order for 42 x 400g tins!! But I'm also scared at this stage to take a risk as I desperately want him to put weight on so we can avoid the next stronger drug. Oh and I'm also scared once we taper off and stop the steroids he will go back to how he was
> 
> Hope all your ibd'ers are doing well


Glad Riley seems to be doing okay and hope you are right that he may have put on some weight.
I wouldnt change his food just now,it would I think be best to keep him on the kangaroo until his next weight check at least, you dont want to "rock the boat" or you might confuse the weight results.
It is difficult knowing what to do about food changes,I have the added problem of not only trying to introduce a new food but finding one that the fussy little sod will eat 
He is doing well at the moment,but we all know how quickly that can change.
He has been going out in his run and as long as mummy stays with him he is happy  and I thought he was a big brave lad


----------



## nicolaa123

Meeko is a brave boy..just does not want his mum to do anything with out his approval.. so has to go in when you do to keep an eye on you

I had a bath Sunday and closed my eyes for short while, I opened them to see Riley not only sat on the side of the bath but his tail was in the water  he did not even move it, it was soaked!! Bath cut short to rince the bubbles off his tail :nonod:


----------



## nicolaa123

The day I was dreading has come..Riley's insurance renewal!!

It went up


















By






































£3.63!! Phew!!


----------



## buffie

Is that for the year or monthly ,Meeko's has gone up by just under £1 a month and his excess has increased to£80 .I might give Pet Plan a ring to see why the excess has increased


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Is that for the year or monthly ,Meeko's has gone up by just under £1 a month and his excess has increased to£80 .I might give Pet Plan a ring to see why the excess has increased


Monthly..but to be honest I was expecting much more as i am with sainsburys and have heard from others that the policies were increasing a lot and with the last two claims, I was dreading it.

Seems odd they have increased the excess, does it say in the original policy that the excess will increase at a certain age?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Monthly..but to be honest I was expecting much more as i am with sainsburys and have heard from others that the policies were increasing a lot and with the last two claims, I was dreading it.
> 
> Seems odd they have increased the excess, does it say in the original policy that the excess will increase at a certain age?


Not that I can see,and he is only just turned 3 so I cant see it being an age thing,will need to get out all the past renewal policies to check if there is something I missed,
Its not a huge problem,the amount I have claimed since this all started is well in excess of £2,000 and that is just for 14months


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not that I can see,and he is only just turned 3 so I cant see it being an age thing,will need to get out all the past renewal policies to check if there is something I missed,
> Its not a huge problem,the amount I have claimed since this all started is well in excess of £2,000 and that is just for 14months


I feel the same I was so relieved..made up for my water bill landing today


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All Just a quick hello for now - am reading through this huge thread from scratch. Only 120 pages to go!

My Sally cat has just been sort of 'diagnosed' with likely IBD After numerous tests and I'm looking to see how folk manage it.

Thanx 
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi All Just a quick hello for now - am reading through this huge thread from scratch. Only 120 pages to go!
> 
> My Sally cat has just been sort of 'diagnosed' with likely IBD After numerous tests and I'm looking to see how folk manage it.
> 
> Thanx
> Kath


Sorry to hear you are joining the club 

What's Sally's history and symptoms? What food is she eating? What is your vets plan of treatment?

Currently mine is on twice daily dose of steroids. Can't wait to taper him off, hopefully from Wednesday as I've noticed increase in eating yesterday and today, at vets Wednesday, hopefully with a weight gain and he can start to come off them..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear you are joining the club


Yes indeed but glad you're all here anyway.



> What's Sally's history and symptoms? What food is she eating? What is your vets plan of treatment?


Sally's a 13year old Maine Coon who has very recently lost Wispe, her lifelong companion. At first we thought she was grieving .. maybe she is tho as she continues to search for him at times.

She's had really stinky dire rear occasionally over the years but in past 3 weeks its happened frequently along with vomitting and inappetite.

Had taken her to vet a month or so ago cos she has a lump on her throat which vet suspect to be cancer ... her aspirate came back as reactive lymph node/inconclusive [?] but we're still awaiting results of this Thursdays biopsy.

The digestive issue started mid investigations for the lump so she also had X ray, U/S scan and lots of blood test.

So far her bloods are fine apart from high eosinophils but today her fPLI result shows a degree of Pancreatitis. X ray showed nothing remarkable but scan showed changes typical of either IBD or Small Cell Lymphoma - apparently almost indistinguishable.

She's had 2 lots of B12 shots and 2 Cerenia now and of last 2 days is eating well on JWB and fresh coley. She used to be entirely raw fed but had to step this down in last year or so due to my ill health.

Thats enough info for an intro I'm sure .. wouldn't want to overload. 
My approach is holistic and I'm looking at low dose naltrexone, digestive enzymes and probiotics etc etc tho she's very difficult to pill or supplement.



> Currently mine is on twice daily dose of steroids. Can't wait to taper him off, hopefully from Wednesday as I've noticed increase in eating yesterday and today, at vets Wednesday, hopefully with a weight gain and he can start to come off them..


Yes I understand your apprehension re steroids as the s/e can be dreadful. Having now read 45 pages of this thread I have a little knowledge of the background to your kitties issues and do hope all goes well.

Thanx
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor girl..b12 did nothing for Riley apart from hurt him and make him cross! On the double dose steroids he has been really good, but I do want him off them. He has also reacted well to metronidazole in the past. Pro biotics were not that successful for him and he to very sick, so am nervous to use them again, plus he won't eat any "extras" in his food..but he is happy to have his pills 

How is her weight? Any loss? Also has the vet suggested an endeoscopy?


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry, forgot to add..a food elimination diet is very helpful to avoid foods that cause flare ups, however I don't think that ibd is food related alone. In your case I would also think about the stress issue of losing another cat and treat that also.

Is jwb dry food? Depending on how often she has runny poo an all wet novel and single protein food is a good place to start with an elimination diet.

Poor Riley had a runny bum tonight, not all that bad, I know what caused it, I let him out yesterday for an hour and he caught a mouse  ate it whole despite my efforts, to stop him. But was not major bad, thank goodness, (ive tried house arrest but he wont happily stay in), he is now back to sulking as he has not been out since then..


----------



## KathinUK

Hi and thanx for your response Nicolaa



nicolaa123 said:


> How is her weight -- loss


She lost almost a kilo in the 6 years since her last vet visit - this is what initially alerted us. However, much as she's lost a bit in recent weeks she had put most of it back by Saturday.



> ..a food elimination diet is very helpful to avoid foods that cause flare ups


Yes I'm sure it would be, but dunno if its an allergy or not and if it is whether its to a particular protein source or cereals or maybe the yukky additives found in most processed foods. Quite a conundrum eh?



> Is jwb dry food? Depending on how often she has runny poo an all wet novel and single protein food is a good place to start with an elimination diet.


No JWB is wet, she's been ok so far on both the turkey and lamb and tho I'm not happy about the veggie choice at least she's eating it :thumbsup:

I'm still researching different foods and find soooo many add cereal which really has no place in feline nutrition. Would like to get her back on raw diet but not up to it yet, not sure which protein source I'd use or even if raw would be good with a compromised gut either.



> Poor Riley had a runny bum tonight, not all that bad, I know what caused it, I let him out yesterday for an hour and he caught a mouse  ate it whole despite my efforts, to stop him. But was not major bad, thank goodness


Poor Riley, hope he's feeling better today. I find that rather odd tho given that mouse is a cats natural diet. Why do you think it upset his tum?
I'm surprised the probiotics didn't help .. which did you try? Someone on my LDN List recommended Enzymatica Digest Gold with probiotics which I was about to try. But with news of the pancreas involvement I'm a bit wary.

The other mainstay I'm looking at is Low Dose Naltrexone - a drug which has been sucessfully used for humans with IBD AND cancer. I take it myself but its rather bitter and would be a challenge to get into a cat I suspect.

Speak later
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All,

Had an email today from Zooplus who currently have a promotion on "Vet Diets". 
Had a look and they have some Kattovit Gastro and Integra Sensitive. 

But when I took a closer look at the ingredients list I find them to be rather poor quality and all with added cereal. Not sure why they do this but find it really off putting.


Also had a look at Happy kitty company who sell Macs and Om Nom. They don't have the 'sensitive' foods on UK site but they do have grainfree thats also 70% meat. 
There's a special offer on of 2 x 400gms and 4 x 200gms for £12 which I think I might order despite them being rather big for a singleton. Have any of you tried this for your IBDers and if so how did it go?


Thanx
Kath


----------



## Cazzer

From memory most of the macs aren't single source so for me that's a big no. I think its only the beef that is single source. Beef is thought to be one of the worst foods for upsetting them. My other cats love it though. Om nom nom they will eat it and Karlo has been fine but never been 100 % sure that he has ever eaten any.

Karlo is fine though with Grau chicken with rice, and chicken gizzards and ropocat chicken


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi and thanx for your response Nicolaa
> 
> She lost almost a kilo in the 6 years since her last vet visit - this is what initially alerted us. However, much as she's lost a bit in recent weeks she had put most of it back by Saturday.
> 
> Yes I'm sure it would be, but dunno if its an allergy or not and if it is whether its to a particular protein source or cereals or maybe the yukky additives found in most processed foods. Quite a conundrum eh?
> 
> No JWB is wet, she's been ok so far on both the turkey and lamb and tho I'm not happy about the veggie choice at least she's eating it :thumbsup:
> 
> I'm still researching different foods and find soooo many add cereal which really has no place in feline nutrition. Would like to get her back on raw diet but not up to it yet, not sure which protein source I'd use or even if raw would be good with a compromised gut either.
> 
> Poor Riley, hope he's feeling better today. I find that rather odd tho given that mouse is a cats natural diet. Why do you think it upset his tum?
> I'm surprised the probiotics didn't help .. which did you try? Someone on my LDN List recommended Enzymatica Digest Gold with probiotics which I was about to try. But with news of the pancreas involvement I'm a bit wary.
> 
> The other mainstay I'm looking at is Low Dose Naltrexone - a drug which has been sucessfully used for humans with IBD AND cancer. I take it myself but its rather bitter and would be a challenge to get into a cat I suspect.
> 
> Speak later
> Kath


The only way with knowing what food triggers is to do the elimination diet. Not all cats with ibd respond well to raw. If you are looking for a good grain free food, I can recommend Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG they have novel proteins such as reindeer and also horse as well as kangaroo.

With the probiotics as it made him sick I've been worried about trying another, although I know potentially it could help, also he does not like to have it, pills he is fine with but pastes not so!

I would be wary about giving any meds that have not had a clinical trial, I know my vet does not like to use them, plus I wonder if it would cause an issue with an insurance claim..

As for the mouse, who knows why it caused a problem, that's the thing with these cats, food they have no reaction to can suddenly cause problems, which is why I'm not convinced that ibd is just a food related issue..


----------



## buffie

Evening all  Just dropping in to see how we are all doing.
Mr Magnificent has been having a few uneventful weeks so paws crossed this continues  I havnt dared weigh him ,I think he has put back a little but dont want to be disappointed if I weigh him and find he hasnt 
I notice you were discussing pro-biotics, have you tried the Pro-Kolin Enterogenic , its a granule which is supposed to be very palatable and can ,infact help to encourage cats to eat foods they otherwise have ignored.
It is a bit pricey,but maybe your vet will have it in single sachets to try rather than a whole box 

Protexin Pro Kolin Enterogenic 4g Sachets - Pack 30 - Animed Direct


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Evening all  Just dropping in to see how we are all doing.
> Mr Magnificent has been having a few uneventful weeks so paws crossed this continues  I havnt dared weigh him ,I think he has put back a little but dont want to be disappointed if I weigh him and find he hasnt
> I notice you were discussing pro-biotics, have you tried the Pro-Kolin Enterogenic , its a granule which is supposed to be very palatable and can ,infact help to encourage cats to eat foods they otherwise have ignored.
> It is a bit pricey,but maybe your vet will have it in single sachets to try rather than a whole box
> 
> Protexin Pro Kolin Enterogenic 4g Sachets - Pack 30 - Animed Direct


I can ask them, but he is so funny about his food and added "extras" he has no problem eating at the moment, just hope it has some affect on his weight.

Pleased to hear Meeko is doing well..might be the fresh air


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I can ask them, but he is so funny about his food and added "extras" he has no problem eating at the moment, just hope it has some affect on his weight.
> 
> Pleased to hear Meeko is doing well..might be the fresh air


Is it this coming Wednesday he goes for his weight check ?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Is it this coming Wednesday he goes for his weight check ?


It is 5.50 pm on Wednesday..fingers crossed ..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It is 5.50 pm on Wednesday..fingers crossed ..


Good luck hope it all goes well


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> The only way with knowing what food triggers is to do the elimination diet. Not all cats with ibd respond well to raw. If you are looking for a good grain free food, I can recommend Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG they have novel proteins such as reindeer and also horse as well as kangaroo.


Hi and thanx Nocolaa. I get the idea about a novel protein source but do wonder how many of these larger prey my kitty would be able to catch - with or without assistance that is :yikes:



> With the probiotics as it made him sick I've been worried about trying another, although I know potentially it could help, also he does not like to have it, pills he is fine with but pastes not so!


Sorry to hear that. Not all probiotics are created equal tho and Sally wouldn't touch the Pro-Kolin. However since I learned it has E. Faecium in it then I don't blame her ... this bacteria is anti-biotic resistant so potentially harmful.
At the mo I'm looking at Enzymatica but am unsure about the digestive enzyme component cos of her newly found pancreas issue.



> I would be wary about giving any meds that have not had a clinical trial, I know my vet does not like to use them, plus I wonder if it would cause an issue with an insurance claim..


You're more trusting of the vets and/or food companies than I am Nicolaa 



> ... that's the thing with these cats, food they have no reaction to can suddenly cause problems, which is why I'm not convinced that ibd is just a food related issue..


Stress no doubt plays a part .. but don't know about underlying issues. Sally had smelly and loose poops when she first came to us some 13years ago and has had from time to time ever since despite her diet.

Fortunately since Thursday she's been really well and catching up with her eating. Mainly on JWB for now with some fresh chicken and coley. Its so good to see her well again and regaining weight. Tho I await with trepidation the results of her neck lump biopsy.

Hope your kitty is ok still and has a good weigh-in on Wednesday.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Not all ibd cats do well on a natural they can kill diet  trust me when you find something that does not cause a reaction you hold on to it 

I do trust my vet, she has been very good and works with me, I trust when she says not to try certain meds if they have not had clinical trials. I've taken many suggestions to her and she has researched them. She was the one that suggested vet concept over the hills diet..says a lot for me  the thing with novel proteins is its a base to start the elimination diet so you can then see what causes a reaction, as a cat should not have a reaction to a meat never eaten before, then you can start to add other foods and note any changes. Tho if cured by food alone, my personal views are that it is not ibd..just my opinion..

Hope the biopsy comes back positive and Riley says thanks for his well wishes..


----------



## nicolaa123

So he is now 3.99 am really gutted. She is going to call me tomorrow about the other drug she mentioned when I spoke to her last as she has not used it on ibd before so wants to be sure of the dosage and whether he would have to go in to have it or if I can give at home.

We are cutting the steroids down so he will now be on one per day, I forgot to ask her how long the one per day before half then stopping 

She said its very upsetting that he has not responded to the steroids and has put weight on..

I don't know..it feels like its never going to get better and my poor boy will waste away..


----------



## Cazzer

I feel so sad for you both Nicola. Sometimes though what you are most scared of turns out ok, let's hope so x x


----------



## sarahecp

Really sorry to hear this Nicola 

Keeping everything crossed here that this drug helps Riley. xxx


----------



## nicolaa123

I don't know whether to taper him off the steroids and then give him a bit of time before we start the other drugs, to give him a break..


----------



## Tao2

Sorry to hear that Nicola, the slow weight loss is so depressing isn't it? What about appetite stimulants? My vet was going to put Mittens on Ovarid to stimulate her appetite(not sure it is actually spelled like that...) before her liver problems came to light. I know he was on vitamin B12 injections at one stage without much/any effect but might it be worth another go? At least there isn't a downside to vit B12 inj. that I am aware of.


----------



## buffie

What a nightmare,I have nothing helpful to add,sorry.
It does seem to be a symptom of IBD that the animals affected sometimes are unable to absorb the nutrients from their food properly.
Meeko up to now has had weight loss and then weight gain while on the same food and eating more or less the same quantities which does seem to prove that it is the inability to absorb the nutrients rather than a lack of appetite.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Sorry to hear that Nicola, the slow weight loss is so depressing isn't it? What about appetite stimulants? My vet was going to put Mittens on Ovarid to stimulate her appetite(not sure it is actually spelled like that...) before her liver problems came to light. I know he was on vitamin B12 injections at one stage without much/any effect but might it be worth another go? At least there isn't a downside to vit B12 inj. that I am aware of.


His appetite is fine he is eating loads more than he needs to..

The b12 had no affect on Riley, apart from making him grumpy..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> So he is now 3.99 am really gutted. .....
> 
> .... I don't know..it feels like its never going to get better and my poor boy will waste away..


Hi Nicolaa, I'm so sorry to hear your news about Riley and hope you find something to help him soon.

There are lots of alternative/complementary therapies you may wish to look into if he doesn't improve.

Will keep you in my thoughts.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What a nightmare,I have nothing helpful to add,sorry.
> It does seem to be a symptom of IBD that the animals affected sometimes are unable to absorb the nutrients from their food properly.
> Meeko up to now has had weight loss and then weight gain while on the same food and eating more or less the same quantities which does seem to prove that it is the inability to absorb the nutrients rather than a lack of appetite.


Yeah it is a nightmare, he is ok in himself right now. I just think maybe to stop all meds (after tapering of course) and see how he is after that. I will ask my vet tomorrow about this idea. I'm nervous to try this other drug..


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi Nicolaa, I'm so sorry to hear your news about Riley and hope you find something to help him soon.
> 
> There are lots of alternative/complementary therapies you may wish to look into if he doesn't improve.
> 
> Will keep you in my thoughts.
> 
> Kath


Thanks, I just don't know enough about the alternative/complementary ways to be confident in not making things worse.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah it is a nightmare, he is ok in himself right now. I just think maybe to stop all meds (after tapering of course) and see how he is after that. I will ask my vet tomorrow about this idea. I'm nervous to try this other drug..


I dont envy you your decision,I dont think I would be too happy trying it either,but when you have tried all the "usual suspects" what choice do you have.
Meeko didnt respond well to steroids either,he didnt put on weight and was still being sick ...


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks, I just don't know enough about the alternative/complementary ways to be confident in not making things worse.


Yes I fully understand how you feel Nicolaa .. I've been doing it for years but suppose I must have been trepidacious at first tho I've had lots of support from my Holistic cat List.

Do hope you find something that helps Riley gain some weight and keep it on.

So far Sally continues to feast ... she'll need to go on a reducing diet if this continues, but we'll see what her biopsy result show TOMORROW. Really scared.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I dont envy you your decision,I dont think I would be too happy trying it either,but when you have tried all the "usual suspects" what choice do you have.
> Meeko didnt respond well to steroids either,he didnt put on weight and was still being sick ...


Hopefully my head will be clearer tomorrow..think I will say to vet let me taper him off the steroids then have a weight check after that, if then no better we will try the stronger drugs. I feel happier doing this rather than just loading him with more pills..does that sound ok?


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Yes I fully understand how you feel Nicolaa .. I've been doing it for years but suppose I must have been trepidacious at first tho I've had lots of support from my Holistic cat List.
> 
> Do hope you find something that helps Riley gain some weight and keep it on.
> 
> So far Sally continues to feast ... she'll need to go on a reducing diet if this continues, but we'll see what her biopsy result show TOMORROW. Really scared.
> 
> Kath


Fingers crossed all goes well. Where was the biopsy taken from and what are they thinking?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hopefully my head will be clearer tomorrow..think I will say to vet let me taper him off the steroids then have a weight check after that, if then no better we will try the stronger drugs. I feel happier doing this rather than just loading him with more pills..does that sound ok?


That sounds fine to me,I dont see that there is a lot to be gained from continually throwing pills and potions down his throat.
Lets hope that he puts on some weight once things settle down and he is left to get on with it without any interfering.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> That sounds fine to me,I dont see that there is a lot to be gained from continually throwing pills and potions down his throat.
> Lets hope that he puts on some weight once things settle down and he is left to get on with it without any interfering.


I agree and I will say this tomorrow, after all a couple of weeks won't make a difference really.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I agree and I will say this tomorrow, after all a couple of weeks won't make a difference really.


I very much doubt it,if it does make a difference,I cant see it being in a bad way.All the faffing around hasnt helped so it may be time to just take a back seat and see what happens.Lets hope he improves even a little would be nice.,


----------



## Tao2

Definitely worth seeing how he goes with a break from meds. As his appetite isn't the problem am trying to think what could help with absorption....I know you are very restricted diet-wise, and he isn't low on enzymes. How does he get on weightgain-wise on metronidazole?

Can you weigh him at home? I weigh Mittens on my kitchen scales, they are just as good as vets ones and go upto 5kg (M & S). Fluff Beast is too heavy for them so we just look at his huge belly and roll our eyes instead of worrying about how much weight he has gained (it's bizarre having a scrawny mite and a tubby lump: they both have access to the same food!!).


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Fingers crossed all goes well. Where was the biopsy taken from and what are they thinking?


Thanx for your good wishes Nicolaa, the biopsy was taken from the lump on Sally's throat.

Two vets have said they think its cancer but her needle aspirate two weeks ago was inconclusive ie 'reactive lymph node', with no sign of cancer which lab was unable to rule out.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Definitely worth seeing how he goes with a break from meds. As his appetite isn't the problem am trying to think what could help with absorption....I know you are very restricted diet-wise, and he isn't low on enzymes. How does he get on weightgain-wise on metronidazole?
> 
> Can you weigh him at home? I weigh Mittens on my kitchen scales, they are just as good as vets ones and go upto 5kg (M & S). Fluff Beast is too heavy for them so we just look at his huge belly and roll our eyes instead of worrying about how much weight he has gained (it's bizarre having a scrawny mite and a tubby lump: they both have access to the same food!!).


Thanks it nice to know I'm not on my own thinking this way!

I weigh him on my scales which are pretty much bang on, which is why I knew really he had lost weight..good idea about the kitchen scales tho..

I hope mittens puts on weight, maybe we need to give them donoughts


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> I agree and I will say this tomorrow, after all a couple of weeks won't make a difference really.


Nicolaa, does he need to come off the steroids gradually or can you just stop them?

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa, does he need to come off the steroids gradually or can you just stop them?
> 
> Kath


He has to come off them gradually..


----------



## Polly G

Hi Nicolaa. I have only just joined the forum but I have read your posts and I can relate to some of your problems. My beautiful Jasper is nearly 14 and I have been taking him to the vets since the end of January. He was having regular bouts of sickness and they struggled to find an answer - trying various special diets etc. At the beginning of April his condition worsened and blood tests + xray + ultrasound showed that he has pancreatitis and has become diabetic with a possibility of IBD! He seems to have stabilised on his insulin dose but the sickness is still a problem. He only seems to be able to digest fish and chicken which obviously is not a well-balanced diet for him. I have tried Royal Canin Sensitivity but that also causes problems. Do you have any other suggestions for things that I could try him on? He is currently sick about every 7-9 days.


----------



## buffie

Polly G said:


> Hi Nicolaa. I have only just joined the forum but I have read your posts and I can relate to some of your problems. My beautiful Jasper is nearly 14 and I have been taking him to the vets since the end of January. He was having regular bouts of sickness and they struggled to find an answer - trying various special diets etc. At the beginning of April his condition worsened and blood tests + xray + ultrasound showed that he has pancreatitis and has become diabetic with a possibility of IBD! He seems to have stabilised on his insulin dose but the sickness is still a problem. He only seems to be able to digest fish and chicken which obviously is not a well-balanced diet for him. I have tried Royal Canin Sensitivity but that also causes problems. *Do you have any other suggestions for things that I could try him on? He is currently sick about every 7-9 days*.


I have a Ragdoll with suspected IBD,he has had all the tests except full thickness biopsy.He was being sick every 4/5 days this was why he went to the vet to start with.
Food trials/steroids/metronidazole ect has not helped but he has been on Famotidine (antacid) since January and has not been sick once.
I dont know if in your cats case,this might be an option,as far as I am aware it is a perfectly safe drug to give.It wouldnt hurt to ask your vet if it might help.

Sorry how rude of me  Welcome to the forum


----------



## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> Hi Nicolaa. I have only just joined the forum but I have read your posts and I can relate to some of your problems. My beautiful Jasper is nearly 14 and I have been taking him to the vets since the end of January. He was having regular bouts of sickness and they struggled to find an answer - trying various special diets etc. At the beginning of April his condition worsened and blood tests + xray + ultrasound showed that he has pancreatitis and has become diabetic with a possibility of IBD! He seems to have stabilised on his insulin dose but the sickness is still a problem. He only seems to be able to digest fish and chicken which obviously is not a well-balanced diet for him. I have tried Royal Canin Sensitivity but that also causes problems. Do you have any other suggestions for things that I could try him on? He is currently sick about every 7-9 days.


hi, sorry to hear about jasper, I am at work at the moment so will properly reply later. Good advice from buffie, her meeko has the vomiting type ibd, where riley is back end issues.. I would say tho for a short while chicken would be ok to get things settled, then any other food to introduce very slowly.

Just spoke to my vet, she has ordered the drug, I can give to him at home one tablet every 7 days for a month. He has to one off the steroids first which will take a couple of weeks. I will take him back then for a weight check, depending on that check is whether I will decide to try that drug, give it a bit longer or not at all. Keeping all options open and not ruling anything out at this stage..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> hi, sorry to hear about jasper, I am at work at the moment so will properly reply later. Good advice from buffie, her meeko has the vomiting type ibd, where riley is back end issues.. I would say tho for a short while chicken would be ok to get things settled, then any other food to introduce very slowly.
> 
> *Just spoke to my vet, she has ordered the drug, I can give to him at home one tablet every 7 days for a month. He has to one off the steroids first which will take a couple of weeks. I will take him back then for a weight check, depending on that check is whether I will decide to try that drug, give it a bit longer or not at all. Keeping all options open and not ruling anything out at this stage*..


Lets hope for a weight gain or even staying the same would be a start  I dont envy you the decision.


----------



## Polly G

Thanks Buffie - I will ask my vet about Famotidine and report back how I get on


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear about Jasper. Food wise I would try single sources such As grau chicken with rice, ropocat chicken, om nom nom chicken or feringa chicken. However you say that the RC sensitivity control didn't suit, but that is chicken (or duck if it is the alu trays).


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Sorry to hear about Jasper. Food wise I would try single sources such As grau chicken with rice, ropocat chicken, om nom nom chicken or feringa chicken. However you say that the RC sensitivity control didn't suit, but that is chicken (or duck if it is the alu trays).


Riley did not do well on rc at all! It was the duck and he had a really bad time


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Lets hope for a weight gain or even staying the same would be a start  I dont envy you the decision.


One minute I think yes then no..I'm happy to have some breathing space before I have to then choose for him to have it or not. Been bit sad today as this seems like his only hope at the moment. Put on weight without steroids or try the chlorambucil and hope he puts on weight. If that fails, there is no plan C..


----------



## nicolaa123

Some info..

Another immunosuppressive drug that is used in some cats with severe IBD is chlorambucil (Leukeran). Some clinicians use chlorambucil as an alternative to azathioprine (they are not used in conjunction). Chlorambucil is an alkylating agent. Alkylating agents alter DNA synthesis and inhibit rapidly proliferating cells. Chlorambucil is administered initially at 0.01 to 0.2 mg/kg/day in conjunction with prednisolone at 2.2 mg/kg/day. The small pill size of chlorambucil (2 mg) allows for easy dosing. Most cats receive one-half tablet (1 mg) per day. Various dosage schedules for cats have been published. An alternate schedule is 0.15 to 0.3 mg/kg every 72 hours. Toxicities are uncommon in cats but may include anorexia, vomiting, and diarrhea, but these problems generally resolve rapidly when chlorambucil is reduced from daily to every other day administration. Bone marrow suppression is possible but uncommon, and is mild and rapidly reversible when it does occur. Once the desired clinical response is achieved, chlorambucil is gradually tapered over several months while prednisolone is continued as the primary maintenance drug.

Ok this is 41 pages long  but has some really good info on IBD also the last few pages talk about probiotics and fortaflora etc..

http://web.aimgroupinternational.co...press/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Hall_Ed2.pdf


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Some info..
> 
> Another immunosuppressive drug that is used in some cats with severe IBD is chlorambucil (Leukeran). Some clinicians use chlorambucil as an alternative to azathioprine (they are not used in conjunction). Chlorambucil is an alkylating agent. Alkylating agents alter DNA synthesis and inhibit rapidly proliferating cells. Chlorambucil is administered initially at 0.01 to 0.2 mg/kg/day in conjunction with prednisolone at 2.2 mg/kg/day. The small pill size of chlorambucil (2 mg) allows for easy dosing. Most cats receive one-half tablet (1 mg) per day. Various dosage schedules for cats have been published. An alternate schedule is 0.15 to 0.3 mg/kg every 72 hours. Toxicities are uncommon in cats but may include anorexia, vomiting, and diarrhea, but these problems generally resolve rapidly when chlorambucil is reduced from daily to every other day administration. Bone marrow suppression is possible but uncommon, and is mild and rapidly reversible when it does occur. *Once the desired clinical response is achieved, chlorambucil is gradually tapered over several months while prednisolone is continued as the primary maintenance drug.*
> 
> Ok this is 41 pages long  but has some really good info on IBD also the last few pages talk about probiotics and fortaflora etc..
> 
> http://web.aimgroupinternational.co...press/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Hall_Ed2.pdf


I may be reading this bit wronly,but does this mean that pred is to be continued over many months or longer if you go for this drug 

I will save your "info" and read it when I have a clearer head,maybe then it will sink in


----------



## nicolaa123

I think there are many schedules you can use for the drug. Vet said for him to be off the pred, then has one tablet every seven days for one month with two fortnightly check ups whilst he is on the drug. I am compiling a list of questions for when we go back, it's hard when I'm at work to take it all in what she is saying to me. This will be a low dose treatment from what I understand.


----------



## KathinUK

Polly G said:


> My beautiful Jasper is nearly 14 and I have been taking him to the vets since the end of January. He was having regular bouts of sickness and they struggled to find an answer - trying various special diets etc.
> .... blood tests + xray + ultrasound showed that he has pancreatitis and has become diabetic with a possibility of IBD! He seems to have stabilised on his insulin dose but the sickness is still a problem. ...


Hi Polly and welcome to the forum despite the sad circumstances.

I don't know if there are similarities or not but my Sally is almost 14 too and has recently had bouts of sickness, diarrhea and inappetite. U/s scan showed possible IBD or lymphoma - apparently hard to distinguish with u/s and her special blood test showed some degree of pancreatitis tho this didn't show on U/S.

She's had 2 B12 shots and 2 of Cerenia in last fortnight. I also changed her diet to James Well Beloved last Thusday - wet of course - in 2 separate single souce proteins --Turkey and Lamb --and thankfully she's much much better. Has regained most of the weight she'd lost.

Sadly tho she's just been diagnosed with a very rare cancer of a mandibular lump and as yet its not known whether the gut issue is in fact related lymphoma or is IBD.

What exactly is she vomitting ... is it her dinner or white frothy stuff or bile or furballs and is she otherwise eating well?
I wonder also if you've considered digestive enzyme supplements and/or probiotics something I'm looking into again along with some herbal meds.

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Some info..
> Another immunosuppressive drug that is used in some cats with severe IBD is chlorambucil (Leukeran).
> 
> Ok this is 41 pages long  but has some really good info on IBD also the last few pages talk about probiotics and fortaflora etc..
> 
> http://web.aimgroupinternational.co...press/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Hall_Ed2.pdf


Nicolaa I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling with decisions about Riley and hope you find the strength to manage.

Thanx for the link above which I'll read later tonight. Perhaps I shouldn't comment on immunosuppressants as you probably know my views already and I don't want any heated disagreements at the mo.

We all want to do what we think is best for our kitties and thats what brings us together here.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi Polly and welcome to the forum despite the sad circumstances.
> 
> I don't know if there are similarities or not but my Sally is almost 14 too and has recently had bouts of sickness, diarrhea and inappetite. U/s scan showed possible IBD or lymphoma - apparently hard to distinguish with u/s and her special blood test showed some degree of pancreatitis tho this didn't show on U/S.
> 
> She's had 2 B12 shots and 2 of Cerenia in last fortnight. I also changed her diet to James Well Beloved last Thusday - wet of course - in 2 separate single souce proteins --Turkey and Lamb --and thankfully she's much much better. Has regained most of the weight she'd lost.
> *
> Sadly tho she's just been diagnosed with a very rare cancer of a mandibular lump and as yet its not known whether the gut issue is in fact related lymphoma or is IBD. *
> 
> What exactly is she vomitting ... is it her dinner or white frothy stuff or bile or furballs and is she otherwise eating well?
> I wonder also if you've considered digestive enzyme supplements and/or probiotics something I'm looking into again along with some herbal meds.
> 
> Kath


Sorry to hear about the cancer  from what I've read ibd can lead to cancers of the stomach or intestines and lymphoma.

Good to hear she is putting the weight back on. What has the vet suggested in way of treatment for the cancer?


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling with decisions about Riley and hope you find the strength to manage.
> 
> Thanx for the link above which I'll read later tonight. Perhaps I shouldn't comment on immunosuppressants as you probably know my views already and I don't want any heated disagreements at the mo.
> 
> We all want to do what we think is best for our kitties and thats what brings us together here.
> 
> Kath


Hey! We are hear to listen and learn from each other, I have no problem in listening to thoughts and suggestions that are different to mine. I take all info, research then make a choice. I respect you taking the alternative route even though I have chosen to go down the vet route and would not be comfortable myself with alternative ways of treating. Certainly would not get heated


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I think there are many schedules you can use for the drug. Vet said for him to be off the pred, then has one tablet every seven days for one month with two fortnightly check ups whilst he is on the drug. I am compiling a list of questions for when we go back, it's hard when I'm at work to take it all in what she is saying to me. This will be a low dose treatment from what I understand.


Oh so that is a totally different regime to the one mentioned in the info you posted.I did wonder about the used of pred for so long in conjunction with this drug,bl**dy hell there is so much to try to get your head around


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh so that is a totally different regime to the one mentioned in the info you posted.I did wonder about the used of pred for so long in conjunction with this drug,bl**dy hell there is so much to try to get your head around


That's the word I was trying to think of earlier 

She knows I want him off the pred, plus it's not done any good in way of weight gain, tho to be fair his back end has been very good on the pred. I think I will make an appointment with her before Riley sees her to talk things through..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> That's the word I was trying to think of earlier
> 
> She knows I want him off the pred, plus it's not done any good in way of weight gain, tho to be fair his back end has been very good on the pred. I* think I will make an appointment with her before Riley sees her to talk things through*..


That sounds like a plan,as you have said and I know that you already do,write everything down so that you dont forget.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear about the cancer  from what I've read ibd can lead to cancers of the stomach or intestines and lymphoma.
> 
> Good to hear she is putting the weight back on. What has the vet suggested in way of treatment for the cancer?


At the moment nicolaa, the vet is still researching as this is a very rare cancer with nothing much to base a prognosis on. They've only found 8 previous cases and 4 disappeared without conclusions.

She's said the oncologist recommends excision of the lump plus biopsies of various organs to look for potential lymphoma.

However she's unwilling to try the IV Vit C and other approaches which I think I'd prefer but we have a consult with a herbal vet on Weds now that we have some sort of diagnosis for the throat lump.

I've gone along with diagnostics so far ... but think I'm reaching my limit as I would never ever agree to chemo and apart from surgery there's little else this vet could offer.

Thanx for asking.
Kath


----------



## Cazzer

Cath sorry to hear your news. Will be thinking of you and Sally One of my cats has lymphoma and was given weeks and that was two and a half years ago! 

Nicola as ever sending support for you and Riley.


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> At the moment nicolaa, the vet is still researching as this is a very rare cancer with nothing much to base a prognosis on. They've only found 8 previous cases and 4 disappeared without conclusions.
> 
> She's said the oncologist recommends excision of the lump plus biopsies of various organs to look for potential lymphoma.
> 
> However she's unwilling to try the IV Vit C and other approaches which I think I'd prefer but we have a consult with a herbal vet on Weds now that we have some sort of diagnosis for the throat lump.
> 
> I've gone along with diagnostics so far ... but think I'm reaching my limit as I would never ever agree to chemo and apart from surgery there's little else this vet could offer.
> 
> Thanx for asking.
> Kath


Be interesting to hear what the herbal vet suggests. Lets hope it's another case where it disappears..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Cath sorry to hear your news. Will be thinking of you and Sally One of my cats has lymphoma and was given weeks and that was two and a half years ago!
> 
> *Nicola as ever sending support for you and Riley.*


*
*

Thank you..he is ok in himself, normal pain in the bum he still looks longingly at the food you sent for him. As I've said to him, once you have put on weight you will have the new food..


----------



## Polly G

KathinUK said:


> Hi Polly and welcome to the forum despite the sad circumstances.
> 
> I don't know if there are similarities or not but my Sally is almost 14 too and has recently had bouts of sickness, diarrhea and inappetite. U/s scan showed possible IBD or lymphoma - apparently hard to distinguish with u/s and her special blood test showed some degree of pancreatitis tho this didn't show on U/S.
> 
> She's had 2 B12 shots and 2 of Cerenia in last fortnight. I also changed her diet to James Well Beloved last Thusday - wet of course - in 2 separate single souce proteins --Turkey and Lamb --and thankfully she's much much better. Has regained most of the weight she'd lost.
> 
> Sadly tho she's just been diagnosed with a very rare cancer of a mandibular lump and as yet its not known whether the gut issue is in fact related lymphoma or is IBD.
> 
> What exactly is she vomitting ... is it her dinner or white frothy stuff or bile or furballs and is she otherwise eating well?
> I wonder also if you've considered digestive enzyme supplements and/or probiotics something I'm looking into again along with some herbal meds.
> 
> Kath


Hi Kath

Jasper vomits an amount of food, sometimes frothy liquid but in the last three weeks he brings up fresh blood which I find quite alarming. My vet thought it was because he was retching but I don't think it is. The vet injects him with Zantac which seems to hep for 7-9 days but then the sickness starts again. We seem to be getting his diabetes under control but this element is worrying. He has had xray and ultrasound but is not strong enough for biopsies at the moment. Thank you for your suggestions - I am happy to consider anything to help him and improve his quality of life.


----------



## KathinUK

Cazzer said:


> Cath sorry to hear your news. Will be thinking of you and Sally One of my cats has lymphoma and was given weeks and that was two and half years ago


Cazzar thanx ever so much for that - its the first bit of positive news I've heard for a while.

Would you mind telling me a bit about it please? 
Perhaps I should start a new thread rather than hi-jack this one.
Kath -


----------



## buffie

Polly G said:


> Hi Kath
> 
> Jasper vomits an amount of food, sometimes frothy liquid but in the last three weeks he brings up fresh blood which I find quite alarming. My vet thought it was because he was retching but I don't think it is. *The vet injects him with Zantac which seems to hep for 7-9 days but then the sickness starts again.* We seem to be getting his diabetes under control but this element is worrying. He has had xray and ultrasound but is not strong enough for biopsies at the moment. Thank you for your suggestions - I am happy to consider anything to help him and improve his quality of life.


Interesting that you say your vet injects Zantac which seems to help for a few days.Zantac I think,is an antacid so perhaps the famotidine will help to control the vomiting.
The fresh blood though is a worry,but I suppose it could be caused by a burst blood vessel caused by his vomiting.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Be interesting to hear what the herbal vet suggests. Lets hope it's another case where it disappears..


Thanx nicolaa - will keep you posted.

I think you misunderstood what I meant about the disappearing cases . I meant there are no further records of the cats and not that the affected lymph nodes disappeared.

I do feel for yours and Riley s issues - it's so hard trying to understand what's happening and what to do for the best isn't it?

Kath


----------



## Cazzer

KathinUK said:


> Cazzar thanx ever so much for that - its the first bit of positive news I've heard for a while.
> 
> Would you mind telling me a bit about it please?
> 
> Katherine -


He is on pred daily plus vetergesic. He has a severe heart murmur so never considered chemo. Recently I can see that his tummy shape is changing quite a bit, you can see he is wider on one side than the other. We just take every day as it comes and think ourselves blessed he is still with us


----------



## KathinUK

Polly G said:


> Hi Kath
> 
> Jasper vomits an amount of food, sometimes frothy liquid but in the last three weeks he brings up fresh blood which I find quite alarming. My vet thought it was because he was retching but I don't think it is. The vet injects him with Zantac which seems to hep for 7-9 days but then the sickness starts again. We seem to be getting his diabetes under control but this element is worrying. He has had xray and ultrasound but is not strong enough for biopsies at the moment. Thank you for your suggestions - I am happy to consider anything to help him and improve his quality of life.


Hi Polly, Yes I'm sure vomitting fresh blood would be alarming. I vaguely remember reading something about this tho can't remember where .. will think about it and get back to you if it comes to mind.

A lot of the threads on here are about peoples' experiences with various foods and suppliers. There's quite a lot of info on foods suitable for kitties with sensitive tums for whatever reason be it allergy, ibd etc.
It does seem to me to be a case of trial and error.

Am quite new here myself and have made lots of notes from these threads on various foods to try for Sally. I'm now looking particularly for grain free, high protein and possibly mono-protein to address her needs as I'm not doing raw at the moment.

HTH
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Hi Polly I checked the reference to blood but it was actually bloody stool not vomit. In the stool fresh blood I indicates IBD and is caused by inflammation. 

How is your kitty now -hope he feels better. 

Kath


----------



## Polly G

Hi Kath

Jasper had a really bad day yesterday - very lethargic and a bad bout of colic in the night. I am going to speak to my vet and ask her about the drug that Buffie uses for her cat to see if that would help Jasper with his digestive problems. I think that we are stabilising his diabetes and at the moment he has to visit the vets approx every seven days for a jab to stop him vomitting. So if we could improve that side of things I would be more hopeful.

How is Sally doing now? It is so difficult with cats as there is so much guesswork involved in treating them, and as you said a lot of trial and error.

Polly


----------



## Polly G

Hi Buffie

What form is the Famotidine that you use - is it tablet or liquid and do you administer it daily? My vet is back from holiday tomorrow and I am going to ask her about the possibility of trying this for Jasper. I don't think him having an injection every seven days is the answer. I think he needs an ongoing medication that controls the sickness rather than one injection to settle it once it has happenend. All this does his make him poorly for a couple of days and then he has to start to get back to square one again.

Obviously the fact that he is diabetic means that some meds are not suitable for him but I am going to ask the question anyway.

I really appreciate your help and advice.

Thanks
Polly


----------



## buffie

Polly G said:


> Hi Buffie
> 
> What form is the Famotidine that you use - is it tablet or liquid and do you administer it daily? My vet is back from holiday tomorrow and I am going to ask her about the possibility of trying this for Jasper. I don't think him having an injection every seven days is the answer. I think he needs an ongoing medication that controls the sickness rather than one injection to settle it once it has happenend. All this does his make him poorly for a couple of days and then he has to start to get back to square one again.
> 
> Obviously the fact that he is diabetic means that some meds are not suitable for him but I am going to ask the question anyway.
> 
> I really appreciate your help and advice.
> 
> Thanks
> Polly


 HI Polly G .Meeko's vomiting appears to be caused by excess acid in his stomach, at least that is my understanding.
As soon as he started on the famotidine the vomiting stopped,he was being sick every few days.
He is on 1/4 of a 20mg tablet every day which is very easy to pop down his throat and doesnt seem to have any horrible taste.
I hope this will help Jasper ,the fact that he seems to respond to Zantac would make me think it may help.
I know how hard it is to work with diabetes as I had a cat who was insulin dependant diabetic for the last 7 years of her life.


----------



## KathinUK

Cazzer said:


> He is on pred daily plus vetergesic. He has a severe heart murmur so never considered chemo. Recently I can see that his tummy shape is changing quite a bit, you can see he is wider on one side than the other. We just take every day as it comes and think ourselves blessed he is still with us


Hi Cazzar, sorry to be a bit late responding.

It sounds like your kitties managing quite well under the circumstances ... presumably on low dose pred plus analgesic, tho obviously you need to keep a close eye on him. I hope he stays well a lot longer.

The diagnosis at first is sooo shocking isn't it, but I'm beginning to get my head round it a bit - I found your message very encouraging. 
Fortunately Sally's really well again now - regaining her weight AND her chirpy Coonie character.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> Hi Buffie
> 
> What form is the Famotidine that you use - is it tablet or liquid and do you administer it daily? My vet is back from holiday tomorrow and I am going to ask her about the possibility of trying this for Jasper. I don't think him having an injection every seven days is the answer. I think he needs an ongoing medication that controls the sickness rather than one injection to settle it once it has happenend. All this does his make him poorly for a couple of days and then he has to start to get back to square one again.
> 
> Obviously the fact that he is diabetic means that some meds are not suitable for him but I am going to ask the question anyway.
> 
> I really appreciate your help and advice.
> 
> Thanks
> Polly


Poly, when Riley had a bout of sickness as well as the anti sickness jab, they also gave him some minty syrup that he had to have before meals. I can't for the life of me remember the name now tho.. it did work tho..


----------



## Cazzer

Nicola I think that is Zantac. It also can be injected. Karlo's not had it but I think keshet and kgosi had it. How's Riley? Did you make ny decision?

Hope jasper is felling better too

Kath glad you found gingers story encouraging. Lets hope Sally does well


----------



## Polly G

I spoke to my vet yesterday and she has prescribed Tagamet syrup for Jasper - to be taken twice per day - quite frankly I am willing to try anything now as I think time is running out for him.

She says if he vomits blood anymore they will have to do an endoscopy but I am very worried that he may not survive an anaesthetic. It seems that he has other problems apart from diabetes and pancreatitis but the vets don't seem certain what they are.

We need a miracle!


----------



## buffie

Polly G said:


> I spoke to my vet yesterday and she has prescribed Tagamet syrup for Jasper - to be taken twice per day - quite frankly I am willing to try anything now as I think time is running out for him.
> 
> She says if he vomits blood anymore they will have to do an endoscopy but I am very worried that he may not survive an anaesthetic. It seems that he has other problems apart from diabetes and pancreatitis but the vets don't seem certain what they are.
> 
> We need a miracle!


Oh no,sorry to read this,hopefully Tagamet will help,was she not keen to try famotidine.
I understand your reluctance for the endoscopy,it always seems to be the way,trying to find a cause for illness has its own risks.
Fingers crossed the Tagamet helps


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Nicola I think that is Zantac. It also can be injected. Karlo's not had it but I think keshet and kgosi had it. How's Riley? Did you make ny decision?
> 
> Hope jasper is felling better too
> 
> Kath glad you found gingers story encouraging. Lets hope Sally does well


Riley is ok, had a bad bum one time over the weekend, but was not too bad..I have another week before I have to make my mind up. Right now I'm leaning towards him having it as there is no alternative for him to have..


----------



## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> I spoke to my vet yesterday and she has prescribed Tagamet syrup for Jasper - to be taken twice per day - quite frankly I am willing to try anything now as I think time is running out for him.
> 
> She says if he vomits blood anymore they will have to do an endoscopy but I am very worried that he may not survive an anaesthetic. It seems that he has other problems apart from diabetes and pancreatitis but the vets don't seem certain what they are.
> 
> We need a miracle!


Polly have you tried smaller meals, by that even a spoon at a time on a more frequent basis? Or raising up his bowl so his head is higher when he eats?

Riley had an endescopy and although the other end, he did recover really well after. I was really worried too. I really hope you get a break through and the vomiting stops..


----------



## KathinUK

Polly G said:


> I spoke to my vet yesterday and she has prescribed Tagamet syrup for Jasper - to be taken twice per day - quite frankly I am willing to try anything now as I think time is running out for him.
> 
> She says if he vomits blood anymore they will have to do an endoscopy but I am very worried that he may not survive an anaesthetic. It seems that he has other problems apart from diabetes and pancreatitis but the vets don't seem certain what they are. We need a miracle!


Hi Polly, I'm so very sorry to read your sad message about Jasper. Could it be inflammation in his tummy? Endoscopys as you know are quite risky .... more so given his age with anesthesia... and with no guaranteed result.

When Sally was off her food and vomitting/diarrhea we got her going again with James Well Beloved Turkey wet food along with Cerenia and B12 injections. The recipe is made for sensitive tums.

I don't know if this is any help at all to you but we've just got home from our herbal vet consult for Sally's lymphoma/IBD and it was so so positive. She has had sucess treating cancer and is fairly confident we may be able to avoid surgery. So all I can say at this stage is if you're open to alternative types of treatment then please seek out a herbal vet.

Find a Herbal Vet

Miracle .. probably not but you may be surprised.

HTH
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor Riley..cutting down the pred is causing increase in dirrareah. He is due to be half a tablet now for a week before we are back at the vets again.


----------



## Tao2

Hi everyone, Mittens had some more blood test results today. Last time she had high readings for liver, pancreas and was anaemic and went on a 6 week course of multiple antibiotics in the hope it was an infection which could be resolved. Unfortunately her test results today, following her 6 weeks of treatment show no improvement, in fact they are worse than before. So it looks like she has some serious liver problems. Vet wants to do scans and god knows what to see what the underlying cause is. Am absolutely devastated. I knew this was a possibility but had really been banking on some improvement. Esp. as she has been brighter, eating better and put on weight whilst being treated. 
Also, treatment has already cost me more than I could afford....and have been hiding costs from OH who will do his nut when/if he finds out how much I have blown on cat especially as so far it has done no good and I still don't know exact cause of problem. Perhaps I should pretend I blew it on designer clothes instead....or a gambling addiction....or, could I buy a bit of tut from Ikea and pass it off as a priceless antique, an investment that will fund us in our dotage?....that should buy me a bit of time....unless he reads my PF posts of course.....
Sorry to not post for ages then come back as the voice of doom. Nicola, sorry to hear Riley has the runs.


----------



## Matt1982

Hi just wondering if anyone had advice, my cat Leo has had very runny stools or some time now, vets did a stool sample a month or so ago and nothing showed up, they just recommended cat food for sensitive stomachs, tried that and still bad, tried other foods too, we have been feeding him dried food (iams first then harringtons) we stopped the wet food a while back thinking it might help. He doesn't drink milk just water, am really at a loss! Other than the poo he shows no signs of illness and is a healthy, cheerful cat! Any advice would be appreciated, Matt


----------



## Tao2

Hi Matt, Welcome to the forum. How old is Leo? Has he just had the one stool sample? Is his diarrhoea constant or episodic? Any other symptoms?

Try him on plain boiled chicken with the broth it is boiled in for a few days, that usually helps. 

Wet food is better than dry as the diarhhoea will dehydrate him and cats are notoriously poor drinkers.


----------



## Matt1982

Tao2 said:


> Hi Matt, Welcome to the forum. How old is Leo? Has he just had the one stool sample? Is his diarrhoea constant or episodic? Any other symptoms?
> 
> Try him on plain boiled chicken with the broth it is boiled in for a few days, that usually helps.
> 
> Wet food is better than dry as the diarhhoea will dehydrate him and cats are notoriously poor drinkers.


Hi thanks for that, he's around three years old, I took in samples from over a few days after he had been producing very soft stools for some time, it's got worse since then as they are pretty much liquid and 3/4 times a day, he hasn't done 'normal' stool for ages (our other cat Gus eats/drinks exactly the same and is fine). I'll give the chicken a go and introduce some wet food, thanks!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi everyone, Mittens had some more blood test results today. Last time she had high readings for liver, pancreas and was anaemic and went on a 6 week course of multiple antibiotics in the hope it was an infection which could be resolved. Unfortunately her test results today, following her 6 weeks of treatment show no improvement, in fact they are worse than before. So it looks like she has some serious liver problems. Vet wants to do scans and god knows what to see what the underlying cause is. Am absolutely devastated. I knew this was a possibility but had really been banking on some improvement. Esp. as she has been brighter, eating better and put on weight whilst being treated.
> Also, treatment has already cost me more than I could afford....and have been hiding costs from OH who will do his nut when/if he finds out how much I have blown on cat especially as so far it has done no good and I still don't know exact cause of problem. Perhaps I should pretend I blew it on designer clothes instead....or a gambling addiction....or, could I buy a bit of tut from Ikea and pass it off as a priceless antique, an investment that will fund us in our dotage?....that should buy me a bit of time....unless he reads my PF posts of course.....
> Sorry to not post for ages then come back as the voice of doom. Nicola, sorry to hear Riley has the runs.


Oh no, sorry to hear things are worse..seems these cats are hell bent on not getting better.. As for the cost, think the gambling addiction excuse may work  can your vets do a payment plan? Failing that, there are some good credit card deals about for 0% interest on purchases about, or use one and do a balance transfer..

Did they test her bloods for liver function? Sorry if you have said so already


----------



## KathinUK

Matt1982 said:


> Hi just wondering if anyone had advice, my cat Leo has had very runny stools or some time now, vets did a stool sample a month or so ago and nothing showed up, they just recommended cat food for sensitive stomachs, tried that and still bad, tried other foods too, we have been feeding him dried food (iams first then harringtons) we stopped the wet food a while back thinking it might help. He doesn't drink milk just water, am really at a loss! Other than the poo he shows no signs of illness and is a healthy, cheerful cat! Any advice would be appreciated, Matt


Hi Matt and yes welcome despite the circumstances.

Agree with the plain ole boiled chicken + broth for a little while.

What were the sensitive type foods you were feeding him ... also were they wet or dry ... wet is always better? Sallys tum seemed to settle with James Wellbeloved Turkey - claimed to be 'hypoallergenic' tho I'm slowly changing it to better quality now.

HTH
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Matt1982 said:


> Hi just wondering if anyone had advice, my cat Leo has had very runny stools or some time now, vets did a stool sample a month or so ago and nothing showed up, they just recommended cat food for sensitive stomachs, tried that and still bad, tried other foods too, we have been feeding him dried food (iams first then harringtons) we stopped the wet food a while back thinking it might help. He doesn't drink milk just water, am really at a loss! Other than the poo he shows no signs of illness and is a healthy, cheerful cat! Any advice would be appreciated, Matt


In the stool sample what did they test for and is Leo wormed on regular basis? What is the poo like as in colour any blood. Does Leo have any difficulty in passing the poo? What is his bum like after?

I would stop any food that has grains in it and feed a good quality, mono protein wet food. Even better to start an elimination diet so you can see just what is triggering the runny poo. Metronidazole is good for helping with runny poo, so you could ask your vet for a course to see if this helps. If it has been going on for a while how is Leo's weight? Any loss? I think I would if was you ask for some bloods to be checked also just to rule out anything that could be going on inside.


----------



## Cloudygirl

Matt1982 said:


> Hi thanks for that, he's around three years old, I took in samples from over a few days after he had been producing very soft stools for some time, it's got worse since then as they are pretty much liquid and 3/4 times a day, he hasn't done 'normal' stool for ages (our other cat Gus eats/drinks exactly the same and is fine). I'll give the chicken a go and introduce some wet food, thanks!


Has he been back to the vet? He needs to really with persistent diarrhoea
Try him on boiled chicken with broth. Either poach it on the hob or get chicken ( no bone) cover with water in baking pan and stick in oven. It might take at least 3 days to get an improvement I'd stick with it for at least 5 days. Make sure he can't sneak your other cats food. If he firms up its likely to be the food so very gradually introduce him to a new wet food. Will be trial and error as to what he's allergic to might be worth considering allergy testing.

If he's just as runny after 3 days on the chicken it might be possible he's allergic to chicken so you could try him on boiled white fish instead and see if that firms him up,


----------



## Tao2

I think maybe you should just give both cats chicken for a few days so he has no chance of stealing the other cats food. Doubt there will be any complaints and is only for a few days....I have 2 cats too, one with no problems and one on a special diet. I have given up totally on separate diets and they both have the same because otherwise Mittens always gets at the inappropriate food.


----------



## Tao2

Hi Nicola, yes she had general blood screens and specific liver and pancreas screens as well. Will talk to vet again tomorrow and get an idea of plan for future treatment, diagnostics and costs and then will have to bite the bullet and come clean with OH (or nip out and buy that 'valuable antique'). Now going to drown my sorrows in white wine. Cheers everyone!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi Nicola, yes she had general blood screens and specific liver and pancreas screens as well. Will talk to vet again tomorrow and get an idea of plan for future treatment, diagnostics and costs and then will have to bite the bullet and come clean with OH (or nip out and buy that 'valuable antique'). Now going to drown my sorrows in white wine. Cheers everyone!


Good idea on both counts..*****!!


----------



## Matt1982

KathinUK said:


> Hi Matt and yes welcome despite the circumstances.
> 
> Agree with the plain ole boiled chicken + broth for a little while.
> 
> What were the sensitive type foods you were feeding him ... also were they wet or dry ... wet is always better? Sallys tum seemed to settle with Jamess Turkey - claimed to be 'hypoallergenic' tho I'm slowly changing it to better quality now.
> 
> HTH
> Kath


 Hi we tried Hills for sensitive stomachs dried - will give the chicken a try thanks


----------



## Matt1982

nicolaa123 said:


> In the stool sample what did they test for and is Leo wormed on regular basis? What is the poo like as in colour any blood. Does Leo have any difficulty in passing the poo? What is his bum like after?
> 
> I would stop any food that has grains in it and feed a good quality, mono protein wet food. Even better to start an elimination diet so you can see just what is triggering the runny poo. Metronidazole is good for helping with runny poo, so you could ask your vet for a course to see if this helps. If it has been going on for a while how is Leo's weight? Any loss? I think I would if was you ask for some bloods to be checked also just to rule out anything that could be going on inside.


Hiya, he is wormed every three months which the vet recommend as the flea treatment we use (rearguard) tackles worms too. Poo can only be described (please excuse the mental image) as like melted chocolate ice cream (!) not watery as such but runny, never seen any blood although his bum is a bit red after but not bloody. He doesn't seem to hae much trouble passing it and there has been no weight loss at all. The vets had him overnight as they also did an X-ray and lung wash as he had a cough which we think was a dust allergy. They tested blood too, couldn't find anything wrong.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matt1982 said:


> Hiya, he is wormed every three months which the vet recommend as the flea treatment we use (rearguard) tackles worms too. Poo can only be described (please excuse the mental image) as like melted chocolate ice cream (!) not watery as such but runny, never seen any blood although his bum is a bit red after but not bloody. He doesn't seem to hae much trouble passing it and there has been no weight loss at all. The vets had him overnight as they also did an X-ray and lung wash as he had a cough which we think was a dust allergy. They tested blood too, couldn't find anything wrong.


Then I think doing a food elimination diet is one way to try and get to what is making him react. I would also ask for the metronidazole to help with reducing the inflammation in the stomach. Try a novel protein ie one he has never eaten and note all ingredients and make notes on how things are. Then very very very slowly introduce other foods, teaspoon at a time and again note any changes..

I've not heard of rearguard..


----------



## Cazzer

Poor Riley hope its just one of his blips and he's back to 'normal' soon.

Tao2 sorry to hear Mittens results are so good. 

Matt welcome to the club hope the chicken works for Leo!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti..I've searched reargaurd and it says it treats rabbits  are you sure this is what you was given for Leo?


----------



## Tao2

I knew it rang a bell, Nicola you are right, used to prevent flystrike in rabbits. Didn't know it did anything else, have never used it on my buns, I use Advantage for fleas and panacur for worms.....going to research Rearguard now in case I can save a few quid and a lot of hassle.....

Had a look, nope def no good for worms, or fleas, or cats,...


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I knew it rang a bell, Nicola you are right, used to prevent flystrike in rabbits. Didn't know it did anything else, have never used it on my buns, I use Advantage for fleas and panacur for worms.....going to research Rearguard now in case I can save a few quid and a lot of hassle.....
> 
> Had a look, nope def no good for worms, or fleas, or cats,...


Matt, think if this is what your vet recommended you need a new vet and fast!!


----------



## Matt1982

nicolaa123 said:


> Matt, think if this is what your vet recommended you need a new vet and fast!!


Sorry I meant Stronghold!! Don't know where I got rearguard from, probably because its the opposite of Frontline!


----------



## Polly G

buffie said:


> Oh no,sorry to read this,hopefully Tagamet will help,was she not keen to try famotidine.
> I understand your reluctance for the endoscopy,it always seems to be the way,trying to find a cause for illness has its own risks.
> Fingers crossed the Tagamet helps


My vet didn't say why but thought that Tagamet would be better for Jasper - it is a syrup and tastes awful apparently, however, he had two doses yesterday and I guess only time will tell. He can only normally go a maximum of 7 or 8 days without being sick. I note that Tagamet is used for treatment and prevention of stomach ulcers and in many ways his symptoms seem to point towards an ulcer.

I am really reluctant to go down the endoscopy route as I am fearful of the outcome.

Jasper had a brighter day yesterday - he even went a tour of our garden and our neighbours, the day before he just slept most of the day. It really is like being on a roller coaster ride!


----------



## Tao2

Mystery solved! Don't think Stronghold does tapeworm though which is common so might be worth giving him an oral wormer to cover that as well. Milbemax, Panacur or Drontal (I'm not a fan of Drontal) will kill off tapeworm. 
Please let us know how he gets on. Hope it improves soon, it's not pleasant for anyone having a cat with diarrhoea!


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Hi everyone, Mittens had some more blood test results today. Last time she had high readings for liver, pancreas and was anaemic and went on a 6 week course of multiple antibiotics in the hope it was an infection which could be resolved. Unfortunately her test results today, following her 6 weeks of treatment show no improvement, in fact they are worse than before. So it looks like she has some serious liver problems. Vet wants to do scans and god knows what to see what the underlying cause is. Am absolutely devastated. I knew this was a possibility but had really been banking on some improvement. Esp. as she has been brighter, eating better and put on weight whilst being treated.
> 
> Also, treatment has already cost me more than I could afford.....


Hi Tao Have you thought of trying b12 shots for her anaemia ... if it helps her then you can buy sublingual b12 fairly cheaply and administer them yourself.

HTH
Kath


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> Hi Tao Have you thought of trying b12 shots for her anaemia ... if it helps her then you can buy sublingual b12 fairly cheaply and administer them yourself.
> 
> HTH
> Kath


Hi Kath, Thanks for posting, she has been on B12 injections. I am not sure if they helped because she was on abs at the same time so don't know what had the impact. Am keen to continue though as from what I've read most cats with her problems need extra B12. Do you have any more info about where to obtain/dosage etc.??


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Hi Kath, Thanks for posting, she has been on B12 injections. I am not sure if they helped because she was on abs at the same time so don't know what had the impact. Am keen to continue though as from what I've read most cats with her problems need extra B12. Do you have any more info about where to obtain/dosage etc.??


Hi Tao, 
Superior Source, MicroLingual, Methylcobalamin B12 available at Amazon UK. Apparently these dissolve almost immediately and are recommended on my USA Based holistic cat list.

Natural Factors - B12 Sublingual (Methylcobalamin) 
Pure Encapsulations Methylcobalamin 1000 mcg 180 vcaps
All these are available from Amazon UK

I'm currently looking into this cos Sally's been on weekly shots and I'd like to get her on sublingual instead of vet visits.

I would have thought 1000mcgs would suffice, but think you may need to check dosage and frequency with vet ... I believe its hard to overdose tho.

Kath


----------



## Tao2

Thanks for info., will talk to vet about it. My understanding is that cats become low in B12 because of poor absorption through the gut so it's possible that oral B12 is not effective. Wonder if there is anyone out there who has any info. on oral uptake versus injection??


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for info., will talk to vet about it. My understanding is that cats become low in B12 because of poor absorption through the gut so it's possible that oral B12 is not effective. Wonder if there is anyone out there who has any info. on oral uptake versus injection??


Tao, Sublingual is ok and obviously more effective than simple oral. If you can do the shots yourself at home then obviously this is best but i personally lack the confidence to do them and am trying to avoid the stress of multiple vet visits.

Kath


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> Tao, Sublingual is ok and obviously more effective than simple oral.  If you can do the shots yourself at home then obviously this is best but i personally lack the confidence to do them and am trying to avoid the stress of multiple vet visits.
> 
> Kath


Am with you there!! Poor Mittens literally shakes in her cat box when we enter the vets, I feel so terrible putting her through it when she doesn't understand that it is to make her feel better. I would actually do the shots myself (even though I have a bit of a needle phobia!) rather than subject her to it. Will ask vet about that too.....


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Am with you there!! Poor Mittens literally shakes in her cat box when we enter the vets, I feel so terrible putting her through it when she doesn't understand that it is to make her feel better. I would actually do the shots myself (even though I have a bit of a needle phobia!) rather than subject her to it. Will ask vet about that too.....


Aw poor little Mittens - do you Feliway her carrier?

Sallys getting better with travel now tho - she used to do that piercing coonie howl .
She had 3rd B12 shot today 250mcgs but vet wont talk to me about sublingual.

Fortunately she's still eating well and has gained another 100gms tho is still 1kg down on peak weight.

As you probably know the blood panel should show anaemia.

Kath


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> Aw poor little Mittens - do you Feliway her carrier?
> 
> Kath


Oooh that's a good idea, I'm going to do that next time we go. Thanks! Can you get human Feliway? Think I could use something to de-stress me at the vets.....but still be able to drive legally......


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for info., will talk to vet about it. My understanding is that cats become low in B12 because of poor absorption through the gut so it's possible that oral B12 is not effective. Wonder if there is anyone out there who has any info. on oral uptake versus injection??


Some info.. Vitamin B12 Supplementation in Pets with EPI | petMD

And taken from another site..

Oral tablets of B12 are not very effective unless they can be
absorbed sublingually - under the tongue. The methylocobalamin can be given in the 3mg strength sublingually, but I would recommend the injectable. I have used this several time in the past wth good success. Yes, this particular form is available as an injection, labeled for humans

Riley never improved on the b12.. Just made him grumpy as hell! No way would I even contemplate giving him b12 injections, I value my life!!


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Some info.. Vitamin B12 Supplementation in Pets with EPI | petMD
> 
> And taken from another site..
> 
> Oral tablets of B12 are not very effective unless they can be
> absorbed sublingually - under the tongue. The methylocobalamin can be given in the 3mg strength sublingually, but I would recommend the injectable. I have used this several time in the past wth good success. Yes, this particular form is available as an injection, labeled for humans


Thanx for that nicolaa ... 3 MG seems very strong ... I would have thought more like 500 -1000 mcg sublingually. Vet gave Sally 250mcg shot tho obviously its more effective that way.



> Riley never improved on the b12.. Just made him grumpy as hell! No way would I even contemplate giving him b12 injections, I value my life!!


Hmmm ... I suppose not everything suits everyone but TBH Sal's appetite is good now and she's gaining much need weight.

Hope Riley's feeling better ... major decisions soon ?

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

I m pleased Sally is doing better, long, long may it continue.

Riley..well the diarrhoea is easing, but the blood is increasing. I will ring the vet in the morning to ask her, tho I suspect it's a reaction to coming off the steroids. He was the same before.

As for the descion that will be made Wednesday. I have been reading really positive things about the drug, plus I got some info from a member on here that is using for her cat, which was encouraging.

I'm also researching all the natural stuff from pro biotics to colestrium, tho I mixed a small amount of pro biotic in his food and he refused it..he hates add ons to his food.

He is ok in himself, but I know he is just not right and its breaking my heart to tell the truth. I feel like I'm spinning around and around. I just don't know what to do. I want to keep with trying new food, but each time it causes a set back, he won't eat raw food, catches a mouse and his back end explodes! B12 no reaction on him.

Ok will stop now, before I again burst into tears.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> I m pleased Sally is doing better, long, long may it continue.


Thanx nicolaa 



> Riley..well the diarrhoea is easing, but the blood is increasing. I will ring the vet in the morning to ask her, tho I suspect it's a reaction to coming off the steroids. He was the same before.....
> 
> I'm also researching all the natural stuff from pro biotics to colestrium, tho I mixed a small amount of pro biotic in his food and he refused it..he hates add ons to his food.
> 
> Ok will stop now, before I again burst into tears.


I'm so sorry nicolaa ... I do know how you must be feeling, but people on here are lovely and sooo supportive. I do hope he feels better soon.

Colestrum is tasty - I give it to Sal mixed with a drop of milk and dipped in a biscuit or three .. so you shouldn't need to hide it in food. It should be ok in yogurt too if Riley likes that sort of thing.

Have you thought of looking into low dose naltrexone - its been proven effective in humans for IBD and MS, I wouldn't wish to overwhelm you tho with ideas cos each one needs careful assimilation.

Someone very kindly sent Sally some Feringo chicken which she loves - it fits all her needs too so there's an order from Zooplus on its way.

Take care, Hugs, Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Thanx nicolaa
> 
> I'm so sorry nicolaa ... I do know how you must be feeling, but people on here are lovely and sooo supportive. I do hope he feels better soon.
> 
> Colestrum is tasty - I give it to Sal mixed with a drop of milk and dipped in a biscuit or three .. so you shouldn't need to hide it in food. It should be ok in yogurt too if Riley likes that sort of thing.
> 
> Have you thought of looking into low dose naltrexone - its been proven effective in humans for IBD and MS, I wouldn't wish to overwhelm you tho with ideas cos each one needs careful assimilation.
> 
> Someone very kindly sent Sally some Feringo chicken which she loves - it fits all her needs too so there's an order from Zooplus on its way.
> 
> Take care, Hugs, Kath


I would not have got as far with out the support on here 

Unfortunately for Riley, chicken is a no no..


----------



## nicolaa123

Spoke to my vet, via the lovely lady on reception as my vet was in consult..

Basically she thinks it is reaction to coming off the steroids. I can pick up the chlorambucil earlier than planned, or I can give him some metronidazole to ease things. She said he needs to be on complete house arrest to rule out his mouse eating..poor boy he only gets 1-2 hours outside time as it is! 

So as I am out for little while tonight, I will see how he is when I get back poo wise as I can take him up to the vets Sunday morning (great opening hours) for quick check over and pick up the chlorambucil. Or if it has calmed down I can stick to the Wednesday appointment and the original plan. He is ok in himself so really want to stretch out the visit to give him chance for the steroids to come out of his system before we potentially start a new drug. 

Interesting to note tho, his appetite his huge again and constantly wanting food..which as I know is a sign of a flare up, so it could all be coincidental. Plus I wish he would stop eating mice as they don't help matters of the stomach either..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Spoke to my vet, via the lovely lady on reception as my vet was in consult..
> 
> Basically she thinks it is reaction to coming off the steroids. I can pick up the chlorambucil earlier than planned, or I can give him some metronidazole to ease things. ...
> .. I can take him up to the vets Sunday morning (great opening hours) for quick check over and pick up the chlorambucil. Or if it has calmed down I can stick to the Wednesday appointment and the original plan. .
> 
> Interesting to note tho, his appetite his huge again and constantly wanting food..which as I know is a sign of a flare up, so it could all be coincidental.


How is Riley doing then Claire, did you get to the vets yesterday or are you able to wait till Weds?

Sally's been a little off today .. vomitted a couple of times so have got her on tiny amounts of chicken as and when she requests it. So far she's kept it down tho is very quiet.

I think I may have been a little over-enthusiastic with the herbs and supplements over the weekend and upset her tum 
So leaving everything out for now to hopefully build up gradually.

Its just that the situation is sooo worrying and I want to avoid making things worse at all costs.

Kath


----------



## Cloudygirl

Mildly worried and confused.

I wormed them with panacur granules on Friday night as I thought I'd seen something nasty in the litter tray on Thursday.

Anyway I had a migraine Saturday and was really sick and I don't really remember scoopingthe litter out so it can't have been that out of the ordinary 

Sunday I had to get a 6 am train and was back late - my mum was meant to give them their evening feed but didn't as they hadn't finished the food I left ut. I got back to a very stinky slightly sloppy poop in the tray but they seemed fine. This morning I woke up to diarrhoea on the kitchen floor joy!! But I didn't think that much of it as boo is sometimes sloppy for a few days after wormer, so I shut them in the back while I was at work to save the carpets in case there was attack of the poorly bum.
Came back to slightly smelly litter tray but less so than yesterday one lot of slightly sloppy poop one lot of normal but by the cat tree I found no poop but a splodge of blood.

I've examined them both and can't find any cuts or anything that would have caused the blood but I can never hold boo for long so his was a less thorough check. But they have been scrapping a bit lately and also they've broken a spring thing off one of their toys so could they have got a cut off that but I'm kind of worried the blood is related to the poop now. What do you think should I stick him on white fish just in case it is the bum or just assume one if them has a little cut somewhere that I can't see?


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> How is Riley doing then Claire, did you get to the vets yesterday or are you able to wait till Weds?
> 
> Sally's been a little off today .. vomitted a couple of times so have got her on tiny amounts of chicken as and when she requests it. So far she's kept it down tho is very quiet.
> 
> I think I may have been a little over-enthusiastic with the herbs and supplements over the weekend and upset her tum
> So leaving everything out for now to hopefully build up gradually.
> 
> Its just that the situation is sooo worrying and I want to avoid making things worse at all costs.
> 
> Kath


He has been ok over weekend so decided to wait until Wednesday, he had a nice poo Sunday..

Poor Sally, think with any cat that's has an ibd disposition any change is a slow process, hope she feels better soon. We're the herbs etc what your holistic vet suggested? What are the herbs you are giving her?


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Mildly worried and confused.
> 
> I wormed them with panacur granules on Friday night as I thought I'd seen something nasty in the litter tray on Thursday.
> 
> Anyway I had a migraine Saturday and was really sick and I don't really remember scoopingthe litter out so it can't have been that out of the ordinary
> 
> Sunday I had to get a 6 am train and was back late - my mum was meant to give them their evening feed but didn't as they hadn't finished the food I left ut. I got back to a very stinky slightly sloppy poop in the tray but they seemed fine. This morning I woke up to diarrhoea on the kitchen floor joy!! But I didn't think that much of it as boo is sometimes sloppy for a few days after wormer, so I shut them in the back while I was at work to save the carpets in case there was attack of the poorly bum.
> Came back to slightly smelly litter tray but less so than yesterday one lot of slightly sloppy poop one lot of normal but by the cat tree I found no poop but a splodge of blood.
> 
> I've examined them both and can't find any cuts or anything that would have caused the blood but I can never hold boo for long so his was a less thorough check. But they have been scrapping a bit lately and also they've broken a spring thing off one of their toys so could they have got a cut off that but I'm kind of worried the blood is related to the poop now. What do you think should I stick him on white fish just in case it is the bum or just assume one if them has a little cut somewhere that I can't see?


If there are no obvious signs of injuries then could possibly be poo related so a period on the fish until poo has firmed up will do no harm. Only other thing with it being near the scratch post, could it be claw related? Could you get a white towel and put them on the towel and gently massage the paw, that way you could see on the towel if any dried blood, easier than trying to inspect a paw if boo won't let you..


----------



## YorkshireLass

Hi

Don't know if anyone can suggest anything??

My 6 year old male Border Terrier nearly died 2 months ago, he had pericardial effusion which the vets failed to diagnose after visiting them 3 times over a period of 7 days. He literally had hours to live, but thank god he pulled through and hopefully all will be well.

Since then he has had 2 bouts of colitis, which he's never had before. I've asked 2 vets at the practice if it's connected with his previous condition, but they think not, although I'm starting to not have faith in them. Not sure if it's dietary, he is on a wheat free diet and always has been and his female companion is on the same diet, but has no problems.

When it does happen I feed him on chicken and rice to try and keep it bland, but always end up with anti-biotics, which I don't like him having.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received. 

Thanks YL:smilewinkgrin:


----------



## nicolaa123

YorkshireLass said:


> Hi
> 
> Don't know if anyone can suggest anything??
> 
> My 6 year old male Border Terrier nearly died 2 months ago, he had pericardial effusion which the vets failed to diagnose after visiting them 3 times over a period of 7 days. He literally had hours to live, but thank god he pulled through and hopefully all will be well.
> 
> Since then he has had 2 bouts of colitis, which he's never had before. I've asked 2 vets at the practice if it's connected with his previous condition, but they think not, although I'm starting to not have faith in them. Not sure if it's dietary, he is on a wheat free diet and always has been and his female companion is on the same diet, but has no problems.
> 
> When it does happen I feed him on chicken and rice to try and keep it bland, but always end up with anti-biotics, which I don't like him having.
> 
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
> 
> Thanks YL:smilewinkgrin:


Not really sure with dogs..just looked up pericardial effusion and is awful, poor boy. One thing you can try is a raw diet, this does work in some cases. I presume he gets put on metronidazole which will help with the stomach. Have they done any stool sample? When he has a flare up, what happens and how long does it last?

An elimination diet is very helpful as well so you know what causes a reaction in the stomach.


----------



## Cloudygirl

nicolaa123 said:


> If there are no obvious signs of injuries then could possibly be poo related so a period on the fish until poo has firmed up will do no harm. Only other thing with it being near the scratch post, could it be claw related? Could you get a white towel and put them on the towel and gently massage the paw, that way you could see on the towel if any dried blood, easier than trying to inspect a paw if boo won't let you..


No blood or poop tonight I'm baffled


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> No blood or poop tonight I'm baffled


Maybe was reaction to the wormer??


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> He has been ok over weekend so decided to wait until Wednesday, he had a nice poo Sunday..
> 
> Poor Sally, think with any cat that's has an ibd disposition any change is a slow process, hope she feels better soon. We're the herbs etc what your holistic vet suggested? What are the herbs you are giving her?


Hi and sorry I called you Claire the other day nicolaa. Good to hear Riley's been ok over weekend - sending good thoughts for his consult tomorrow then.

Sally's back to normal eating today thankfully after quite a setback.

Yes the herbal mix was the ones actually prescribed and made up by the vet but I've been trying to build up her supplements as well and think in my angst I upset her tum.

Will start again tomorrow and see how she goes - I just sense myself getting somewhat panicky 

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi and sorry I called you Claire the other day nicolaa. Good to hear Riley's been ok over weekend - sending good thoughts for his consult tomorrow then.
> 
> Sally's back to normal eating today thankfully after quite a setback.
> 
> Yes the herbal mix was the ones actually prescribed and made up by the vet but I've been trying to build up her supplements as well and think in my angst I upset her tum.
> 
> Will start again tomorrow and see how she goes - I just sense myself getting somewhat panicky
> 
> Kath


No worries I answer to most things . Pleased Sally is back to normal after her set back.

I woke this morning to runny poo in the tray, bathroom mat, window sill (?) and all over his tail and trousers.. we will be at the vets in an hour, still have not made mind fully up, but I'm so surprised how the diarrhoea has returned with such ferocity. Good thing tho have not seen any blood so that is a better sign, if there can be a better sign with this..


----------



## Cazzer

Poor Riley and not a good way to start the day for you Nicola!

Hope Sally is still ok!


----------



## buffie

Oh poor Riley and you too,hope you find a way forward at the vets,paws crossed there is a slight weight increase.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> No worries I answer to most things . Pleased Sally is back to normal after her set back.
> 
> I woke this morning to runny poo in the tray, bathroom mat, window sill (?) and all over his tail and trousers.. we will be at the vets in an hour, still have not made mind fully up, but I'm so surprised how the diarrhoea has returned with such ferocity. Good thing tho have not seen any blood so that is a better sign, if there can be a better sign with this..


Oh such a shame .. . . Please keep us updated nicolaa

Kath


----------



## Tao2

Oh poor Riley, poor Nicola!! Let us know what is said at vets.

Mittens is currently vomiting like a trooper....reading about Riley makes me realise that it could be worse, so keep the diarrhoea horror stories coming everyone, make them up if necessary...Anyway back at vets on Friday so will see if anything can be done for her vomiting. Think her liver problems will severely limit options.

Fingers crossed for some firm stools from Mr Stripey.


----------



## nicolaa123

Well he has lost weight again, he is now 3.94, with the diarrhoea returning I decided to start the chlorambucil. We had a good chat about the drug and she assures me it is a safe drug, used widely. Soooo he had his first one there and I have to give him one every 7 days, back in 3 weeks for a weight check and if the drug helps he will have to have it a bit longer, but we will see if it works first!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh poor Riley, poor Nicola!! Let us know what is said at vets.
> 
> Mittens is currently vomiting like a trooper....reading about Riley makes me realise that it could be worse, so keep the diarrhoea horror stories coming everyone, make them up if necessary...Anyway back at vets on Friday so will see if anything can be done for her vomiting. Think her liver problems will severely limit options.
> 
> Fingers crossed for some firm stools from Mr Stripey.


Have you tried what buffie uses for Meeko? Also is mittens on steroids at the moment or just the b12 ? I will report on the chlorambucil as to its hopefully effectiveness.


----------



## Treaclesmum

So sorry to hear this, any unexpected weight loss is scary 

I really hope this new drug will help him to somehow put weight on or at least maintain the weight he is xx


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Mittens is currently vomiting like a trooper..
> ..Anyway back at vets on Friday so will see if anything can be done for her vomiting. Think her liver problems will severely limit options.


Hi Tao I'm sorry but seem to have lost the thread on Mittens but find it upsetting to hear she's vomitting so much. Its really scarey when this happens. Sally vomitted twice on Monday .. first time for weeks ... and was quiet but is eating again now.

What happens with Mittens .. does she have similar episodes then pick up or it is hard for her to regain the weight-loss?

Kath


----------



## Cazzer

Sending mittens some stop vomiting vibes 

All these poorly IBD cats at moment


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Well he has lost weight again, he is now 3.94, with the diarrhoea returning I decided to start the chlorambucil. We had a good chat about the drug and she assures me it is a safe drug, used widely. Soooo he had his first one there and I have to give him one every 7 days, back in 3 weeks for a weight check and if the drug helps he will have to have it a bit longer, but we will see if it works first!!


Oh nicolas I'm so sorry to hear Riley's weights down .. how much has he lost in the past week then? And of course this could partly be due to coming off the steroids ?

Yes I see a lot of folk on the lymphoma list use chlorambucil .. do you need to give anti-nausea treatment with it or should it be ok?
I do hope he does ok on it ...

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Oh nicolas I'm so sorry to hear Riley's weights down .. how much has he lost in the past week then? And of course this could partly be due to coming off the steroids ?
> 
> Yes I see a lot of folk on the lymphoma list use chlorambucil .. do you need to give anti-nausea treatment with it or should it be ok?
> I do hope he does ok on it ...
> 
> Kath


He is on quite a low doseage, so should not have (touch wood) and side effects. She said to look out for any changes in him, if he does to bring him back. He will still be on half a pred every other day with the chlorumbucil and I can also give metronidazole if the diarrhoea persists..we will see I don't want to overload him with drugs, so will keep an eye on him and take it day by day..


----------



## buffie

Sorry to read that Riley is still losing weight  hope that although you dont really want to put him on the chlorambucil it may just be what he needs to sort him out.
It does seem to be a bit of a bad time for all the IBD cats at the moment,paws crossed Meeko is still fairly well,not sure about his weight but I dont think he has lost any,may have put on a little.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Oh poor Riley, poor Nicola!! Let us know what is said at vets.
> 
> Mittens is currently vomiting like a trooper....reading about Riley makes me realise that it could be worse, so keep the diarrhoea horror stories coming everyone, make them up if necessary...Anyway back at vets on Friday so will see if anything can be done for her vomiting. Think her liver problems will severely limit options.
> 
> Fingers crossed for some firm stools from Mr Stripey.


Sorry to read that Mittens is not so well at the minute, has the vet given any reason for the vomitting.
Meeko's only outward sign of IBD apart from the weight loss,was the vomitting which I believe is caused by excess acid in his gut.He has been on and off famotidine ,everytime we stop it he starts to vomit again.
This time he has been on it since begining of January and hasnt been sick once,not sure whether it will be appropriate for Mittens with her liver probs but may be worth asking.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Riley is still losing weight  hope that although you dont really want to put him on the chlorambucil it may just be what he needs to sort him out.
> It does seem to be a bit of a bad time for all the IBD cats at the moment,paws crossed Meeko is still fairly well,not sure about his weight but I dont think he has lost any,may have put on a little.


It was a hard descion, but I just thought I have to try it. Vet did say, although his weight loss his coat condition was not bad, not the worse she has seen him, even tho his fur kind of parts and you can see his skin..odd to describe..

Hope Meeko is leading the way to wellness..


----------



## Paddypaws

Coconut Oil in Your Pet&#39;s Diet - YouTube


----------



## nicolaa123

Paddypaws said:


> Coconut Oil in Your Pet's Diet - YouTube


Can't get the link to work..can you give overview


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Can't get the link to work..can you give overview


I've re-posted the link ,I can get it to work okay ............
Coconut Oil in Your Pet&#39;s Diet - YouTube


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've re-posted the link ,I can get it to work okay ............
> Coconut Oil in Your Pet's Diet - YouTube


Thanks..quite interesting..


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> Hi Tao I'm sorry but seem to have lost the thread on Mittens but find it upsetting to hear she's vomitting so much. Its really scarey when this happens. Sally vomitted twice on Monday .. first time for weeks ... and was quiet but is eating again now.
> 
> What happens with Mittens .. does she have similar episodes then pick up or it is hard for her to regain the weight-loss?
> 
> Kath


Long story so will try to be brief: Mittens is nearly 4, very bad start in life and has suffered on and off over the years with vomiting, diarrhoea and bouts of pancreatitis. All faecal samples, blood tests for infections negative, so vet presumed IBD. Got her on a new diet excluding grains and beef/pork and that seemed to solve the vomiting. Then she got lethargic and started losing weight, so, blood tests and X rays showed pancreatitis and liver problems. She went on 6 week of broad spectrum antibiotics and vitamin b12 injections, put weight back on and muchless lethargic. But new blood tests showed pancreatitis was gone but liver readings no better. Now she is going for further tests, ultrasound and x rays to rule out things like tumours and liver shunt. Then, hopefully some meds for liver problems. In the last week or so though, she has started vomiting again which was the one problem I thought I had solved!!!! And losing weight.

Buffie: am going to ask vet about Famotidine, if it's good enough for gorgeous Mr M it might do for Mittens too.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Long story so will try to be brief: Mittens is nearly 4, very bad start in life and has suffered on and off over the years with vomiting, diarrhoea and bouts of pancreatitis. All faecal samples, blood tests for infections negative, so vet presumed IBD. Got her on a new diet excluding grains and beef/pork and that seemed to solve the vomiting. Then she got lethargic and started losing weight, so, blood tests and X rays showed pancreatitis and liver problems. She went on 6 week of broad spectrum antibiotics and vitamin b12 injections, put weight back on and muchless lethargic. But new blood tests showed pancreatitis was gone but liver readings no better. Now she is going for further tests, ultrasound and x rays to rule out things like tumours and liver shunt. Then, hopefully some meds for liver problems. In the last week or so though, she has started vomiting again which was the one problem I thought I had solved!!!! And losing weight.
> 
> Buffie: am going to ask vet about Famotidine, if it's good enough for gorgeous Mr M it might do for Mittens too.


"Like" for hoping the famotidine works..we need more good news on this thread please people..


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Long story so will try to be brief: Mittens is nearly 4, very bad start in life and has suffered on and off over the years with vomiting, diarrhoea and bouts of pancreatitis. All faecal samples, blood tests for infections negative, so vet presumed IBD. Got her on a new diet excluding grains and beef/pork and that seemed to solve the vomiting. Then she got lethargic and started losing weight, so, blood tests and X rays showed pancreatitis and liver problems. She went on 6 week of broad spectrum antibiotics and vitamin b12 injections, put weight back on and muchless lethargic. But new blood tests showed pancreatitis was gone but liver readings no better. Now she is going for further tests, ultrasound and x rays to rule out things like tumours and liver shunt. Then, hopefully some meds for liver problems. In the last week or so though, she has started vomiting again which was the one problem I thought I had solved!!!! And losing weight.
> 
> Buffie: *am going to ask vet about Famotidine, if it's good enough for gorgeous Mr M it might do for Mittens too*.


It is worth a try,it certainly helps Meeko and the good bit about it,is it is only a quarter of a tablet and easy to dispense  I hope it can help her,I know Meeko got very upset when he was sick,he hated it.


----------



## Paddypaws

I have used Famotidine quite a lot with my diabetic cats, it really helps when they get flare ups of pancreatitis


----------



## buffie

Paddypaws said:


> I have used Famotidine quite a lot with my diabetic cats, it really helps when they get flare ups of pancreatitis


PP's what is your view about using famotidine as a permanent thing.My vet doesnt see any reason not to if it continues to keep the vomitting at bay.


----------



## Ianthi

Tao2 said:


> .. She went on 6 week of broad spectrum antibiotics and vitamin b12 injections, put weight back on and muchless lethargic. But new blood tests showed pancreatitis was gone but liver readings no better. Now she is going for further tests, ultrasound and x rays to rule out things like tumours and liver shunt. Then, hopefully some meds for liver problems..


Tao, this just caught my eye! How soon after cessation of antibiotics and presumably B12 if this is correct did the vomiting return? It's difficult to be specific without knowing exactly which liver problems she had (though I'd suspect some form of cholangitis in the circumstances) but my first instinct would be to resume the antibiotics/B12 again. I'd be a bit surprised to hear of a liver shunt in a cat of this age-though _might_ just be the case.Have you tried any liver supplements like milk thistle even? Usually it's good practice (precautionary measure) to prescribe in cases of pancreatitis only to support liver.

Another point ( though you may well be aware of this) is that it's important to control the vomiting because it can be a precursor to pancreatitis.


----------



## Tao2

Ianthi said:


> Tao, this just caught my eye! How soon after cessation of antibiotics and presumably B12 if this is correct did the vomiting return? It's difficult to be specific without knowing exactly which liver problems she had (though I'd suspect some form of cholangitis in the circumstances) but my first instinct would be to resume the antibiotics/B12 again. I'd be a bit surprised to hear of a liver shunt in a cat of this age-though _might_ just be the case.Have you tried any liver supplements like milk thistle even? Usually it's good practice (precautionary measure) to prescribe in cases of pancreatitis only to support liver.
> 
> Another point ( though you may well be aware of this) is that it's important to control the vomiting because it can be a precursor to pancreatitis.


Thanks for your reply, she finished the antibiotics just over a week ago, last vit B12 injection was over a fortnight ago. I think the vomiting started actually before she went off the antibiotics. Unfortunately I have 2 long haired cats and they have both been moulting these last few weeks so I don't always know who has produced a hairball. All I can say for sure is that Mittens has vomited producing a hairball for the last 3 consecutive days and once when on antibiotics, she was sick and there was no hairball just undigested food. There have been other instances but not that I can definitely say she was responsible for.

Vet has mentioned lactulose for her. I have milk thistle on my list to ask him about because I had read about it so am glad you mentioned that too. Think reason for thinking of shunt lies in her very small stature and long standing issues since kittenhood. I am also concerned that she had a very bad reaction to anaesthesia when she was spayed. Not sure if vet really thinks it is a possibility or just wants to rule out before treating for cholangitis, hopefully likewise ruling out tumours.


----------



## KathinUK

buffie said:


> I've re-posted the link ,I can get it to work okay ............
> Coconut Oil in Your Pet's Diet - YouTube


Dunno if kitties can metabolise MCFA's ... they don't have much success with flax seed oils ... time to research ...... 
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Long story so will try to be brief: Mittens is nearly 4, very bad start in life and has suffered on and off over the years with vomiting, diarrhoea and bouts of pancreatitis. All faecal samples, blood tests for infections negative, so vet presumed IBD. Got her on a new diet excluding grains and beef/pork and that seemed to solve the vomiting. Then she got lethargic and started losing weight, so, blood tests and X rays showed pancreatitis and liver problems. She went on 6 week of broad spectrum antibiotics and vitamin b12 injections, put weight back on and muchless lethargic. But new blood tests showed pancreatitis was gone but liver readings no better. Now she is going for further tests, ultrasound and x rays to rule out things like tumours and liver shunt. Then, hopefully some meds for liver problems. In the last week or so though, she has started vomiting again which was the one problem I thought I had solved!!!! And losing weight.


Tao ... Did you get her on a good quality probiotic - or kefir if she'll take it - after all those antibiotics her gut bacteria will probably be greatly diminished which would contribute to her further digestive issues. 
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> "Like" for hoping the famotidine works..we need more good news on this thread please people..


Ok a bit of good news then 
Sally ate all her hand fed raw chicken breakfast after her Feringo supper, followed by Ferringo dinner, plaice tea and raw chicken supper.

In addition tonight she took over territorial control and actually growled before chasing a neighbouring cat out of the garden. She's hardly ever been known to growl!!

She's now curled up in her tree.

And more good news this morning as she ate a dish of raw turkey with egg plus even more Feringo for brekkies.
She suggests all the ibd kitties give it a try :-0

All the best to the ibd kitties 
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Ianthi said:


> Tao, this just caught my eye! How soon after cessation of antibiotics and presumably B12 if this is correct did the vomiting return? It's difficult to be specific without knowing exactly which liver problems she had (though I'd suspect some form of cholangitis in the circumstances) but my first instinct would be to resume the antibiotics/B12 again.


Hi Ianthi I personally hesitated to suggest milk thistle cos I know a lot of folk don't use herbs, but this suggests to me that its something allopaths support - is that so then?
But TBH I'd think a good probiotic would be preferable to more antibiotics.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Things are ok here. Was in a panic this morning as did not move off the bed all night and had not eaten his supper..when I got up he did not get up with me like normal but just stayed on the bed. Tried to rouse him and he went into floppy cat mode. Quick txt to work that I am going to be late in.. Left him for a while, put his food dish under his nose, no response.

Tried another atempt and he stood up, but not much interest, picked up phone to call the vet and I heard him eating his breakfast, then he went for a wee..phew!

He had eaten all his meal and on way home I got him a new kong toy, which he has been wrestling so he seems very much fine..apart from he wants to go out  I've said no!

Also had bit of a shock as this morning there was a fox in the garden, bold as brass..there are a lot of nesting birds around me, could the fox be stealing the eggs? Was a beautiful animal..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Things are ok here. Was in a panic this morning as did not move off the bed all night and had not eaten his supper..when I got up he did not get up with me like normal but just stayed on the bed. Tried to rouse him and he went into floppy cat mode. Quick txt to work that I am going to be late in.. Left him for a while, put his food dish under his nose, no response.
> 
> Tried another atempt and he stood up, but not much interest, picked up phone to call the vet and I heard him eating his breakfast, then he went for a wee..phew!
> 
> He had eaten all his meal and on way home I got him a new kong toy, which he has been wrestling so he seems very much fine..apart from he wants to go out  I've said no!


Hi he gave you quite a start to your day there nicolaa - hope today was more gentle. I suppose you're watching like a hawk with the new drug eh?

Poor Oscar confined to the house in this lovely weather :sad:

Kath


----------



## Tao2

Mittens had her scan today and it was the worst possible news. She appears to have a large growth in her liver. Vet says she can only have supportive treatment. I am totally devastated. Will post again when I have got my head together a bit.


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Mittens had her scan today and it was the worst possible news. She appears to have a large growth in her liver. Vet says she can only have supportive treatment. I am totally devastated. Will post again when I have got my head together a bit.


Oh Tao ... I'm so sorry ... talk to you later - we have lots of ideas for supportive treatments.

Kath


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Mittens had her scan today and it was the worst possible news. She appears to have a large growth in her liver. Vet says she can only have supportive treatment. I am totally devastated. Will post again when I have got my head together a bit.


Oh no,I am so very sorry to read this  There is nothing I can say that is going to make you feel any better xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Mittens had her scan today and it was the worst possible news. She appears to have a large growth in her liver. Vet says she can only have supportive treatment. I am totally devastated. Will post again when I have got my head together a bit.


So sorry to read this news..we are all here for you xx


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> Things are ok here. Was in a panic this morning as did not move off the bed all night and had not eaten his supper..when I got up he did not get up with me like normal but just stayed on the bed. Tried to rouse him and he went into floppy cat mode. Quick txt to work that I am going to be late in.. Left him for a while, put his food dish under his nose, no response.
> 
> Tried another atempt and he stood up, but not much interest, picked up phone to call the vet and I heard him eating his breakfast, then he went for a wee..phew!
> 
> He had eaten all his meal and on way home I got him a new kong toy, which he has been wrestling so he seems very much fine..apart from he wants to go out  I've said no!
> 
> Also had bit of a shock as this morning there was a fox in the garden, bold as brass..there are a lot of nesting birds around me, could the fox be stealing the eggs? Was a beautiful animal..


sounds like you have a cat that has got you under his paw, like one of mine (at least ONE of mine)


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All,

Sally's visit to the vet for her 4th Vit B12 shot and weigh-in. 

She's lost 50gms in the past week but, since she had a setback Sun/Mon, then its no surprise and she's eating fine again now thankfully.


The vet doesn't think a CT would give any further info on whether this is IBD or intestinal small cell lymphoma- thinks only biopsies could do this - so no progress there. SCL doesn't really fit the picture cos the lymph node biopsy is not small cell.
I'm going to continue with her herbs and supplements for another 2 weeks to see if the submandibular lymphoma decreases any and if it doesn't then may consider surgical excision. Particularly so as I'm having surgery myself on Monday and can't make any major decisions for Sally yet.


This time I'm building up her supps slowly and have now got a high quality probiotic in addition to ubiquinol, colestrum and krill oil. So along with the herbal tincture there's good anti-inflammatories and immune stimulants in there. 

Fingers and paws crossed for us please.
I've just asked about a setting up a Sticky for those of us battling cancer so please join us there if any of you feel it would help.

Thanx for reading
Kath


----------



## jaycee05

I have a cat diagnosed with colitis, she has some very painful spasms,where she really cries and doubles up in pain, sometimes she just poos where she is, and a couple of times has wet herself at the same time
She had steroid treatment at the start, which to be honest didnt seem to do a lot of good, she hasnt lost any weight, in fact looks to be putting it on
I have an appointment at the vets on monday, 
I just wondered what treatment any of your cats with colitis had been given which seemed to help
I am worried she may have a growth or a tumour


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> sounds like you have a cat that has got you under his paw, like one of mine (at least ONE of mine)


He sure does  I waited up until past midnight waiting for him to use the tray..eventually I went to bed just dropping off and hear him.. Half firm half watery..I was worried about him as he did two small wee's which is unlike him, but he did a big one no problem this morning..he has had a better poo tonight, so we might be making some progress..


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sally's visit to the vet for her 4th Vit B12 shot and weigh-in.
> 
> She's lost 50gms in the past week but, since she had a setback Sun/Mon, then its no surprise and she's eating fine again now thankfully.
> 
> The vet doesn't think a CT would give any further info on whether this is IBD or intestinal small cell lymphoma- thinks only biopsies could do this - so no progress there. SCL doesn't really fit the picture cos the lymph node biopsy is not small cell.
> I'm going to continue with her herbs and supplements for another 2 weeks to see if the submandibular lymphoma decreases any and if it doesn't then may consider surgical excision. Particularly so as I'm having surgery myself on Monday and can't make any major decisions for Sally yet.
> 
> This time I'm building up her supps slowly and have now got a high quality probiotic in addition to ubiquinol, colestrum and krill oil. So along with the herbal tincture there's good anti-inflammatories and immune stimulants in there.
> 
> Fingers and paws crossed for us please.
> I've just asked about a setting up a Sticky for those of us battling cancer so please join us there if any of you feel it would help.
> 
> Thanx for reading
> Kath


I have said no to the full biopsy, but Riley did have an endeoscopy which he got over very well. Fingers crossed for her..


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> I have a cat diagnosed with colitis, she has some very painful spasms,where she really cries and doubles up in pain, sometimes she just poos where she is, and a couple of times has wet herself at the same time
> She had steroid treatment at the start, which to be honest didnt seem to do a lot of good, she hasnt lost any weight, in fact looks to be putting it on
> I have an appointment at the vets on monday,
> I just wondered what treatment any of your cats with colitis had been given which seemed to help
> I am worried she may have a growth or a tumour


Sorry to read about your cat being unwell. How long has it been going on for? Test wise I would ask for full bloods and a stool sample, depending on the outcome an ultra scan would be the next step and possibly an endeoscopy. Treatment wise..metronidazole has been very helpful to Riley and controlled the diarrhoea. He has been on steroids and is currently on a course of chlorambucil with steroids as he seems to be severe with his ibd. The first thing to do though is look at food. What are you feeding her at the moment..oh and what's her name so I can stop saying her


----------



## jaycee05

Thank you for your reply,her name is Chloe,and she is 14 years old
She is eating basicslly what the others are eating, felix gail, and whiskas simply, also JW biscuits or Burgess Supacat


----------



## KathinUK

jaycee05 said:


> Thank you for your reply,her name is Chloe,and she is 14 years old
> She is eating basicslly what the others are eating, felix gail, and whiskas simply, also JW biscuits or Burgess Supacat


Hi jaycee there's lots of info on here re suitable diet which Is vital with these gut issues

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> Thank you for your reply,her name is Chloe,and she is 14 years old
> She is eating basicslly what the others are eating, felix gail, and whiskas simply, also JW biscuits or Burgess Supacat


One thing to consider is an elimination diet for Chloe, making sure it's grain free and a novel protein, see if that helps the very slowly introduce other foods, noting any changes. It maybe that she is reacting to certain meats and finding that out can really help manage some symptoms. Vet may suggest I/d or d/d which mine has been on, but currently it seems with him it's not food related..but food is always a good place to start, plus helps with what to avoid!

Let us know what the vet says..each cat reacts differently to different treatments..eg Riley has had good reaction to metronidazole, yet made buffies Meeko unwell. Unfortunately it is very much try something and see if it works..


----------



## KathinUK

jaycee05 said:


> I have a cat diagnosed with colitis, she has some very painful spasms,where she really cries and doubles up in pain, sometimes she just poos where she is, and a couple of times has wet herself at the same time
> She had steroid treatment at the start, which to be honest didnt seem to do a lot of good, she hasnt lost any weight, in fact looks to be putting it on
> I have an appointment at the vets on monday,
> I just wondered what treatment any of your cats with colitis had been given which seemed to help
> I am worried she may have a growth or a tumour


Hi again jaycee - you say your cat has been diagnosed with colitis so can you please tell us how this diagnosis was made?

There are quite a series of tests to be completed before such a diagnosis can be arrived at - the main [tho not particularly recommended one] being biopsy but nicolaa's Riley had endoscopy as his condition seems predominantly large bowel related. 
Nicolaa please correct me if I'm wrong but this is what it sounds like to me.

On ultrasound scan colitis, or IBD, shows thickening of the bowel wall which looks very similar to small cell lymphoma -- so even this test it not 100% reliable. This is one of the issues many of us on here are faced with.

And the first line of approach is, as niccola says, an elimation diet.

HTH
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi again jaycee - you say your cat has been diagnosed with colitis so can you please tell us how this diagnosis was made?
> 
> There are quite a series of tests to be completed before such a diagnosis can be arrived at - the main [tho not particularly recommended one] being biopsy but nicolaa's Riley had endoscopy as his condition seems predominantly large bowel related.
> Nicolaa please correct me if I'm wrong but this is what it sounds like to me.
> 
> On ultrasound scan colitis, or IBD, shows thickening of the bowel wall which looks very similar to small cell lymphoma -- so even this test it not 100% reliable. This is one of the issues many of us on here are faced with.
> 
> And the first line of approach is, as niccola says, an elimation diet.
> 
> HTH
> Kath


From my experience a vet will call stomach issues colitis without much testing..i know with rileys first vet that was what was said. Due to my continued visits and working with a different vet at the practise more tests were done leading to "suspected" ibd as I won't have the full biopsy.

As I learn more and more about the illness and prolonged gut issues should always have a two prong approach, tests to rule out parasites or underlying issues, thyroid, liver etc and food. Some cases can be cured alone with food being changed and notibly by changing to a raw diet it seems.


----------



## jaycee05

So sorry, missed these posts somehow, i tool Chloe to the vet with one of these spasms, the first she had, the vet just examined her by feeling her stomach then gave her a painkilling injection and an antibiotic injection, just after she had explosive diarrohea with blood, which absolutely stank, the vet then said oh that tells me she has colitis, that is typical,so no other tests, but she has quite a few spasms this week,which are obviously painful, 
Oh she had a course of prednisolone, which didnt seem to help much


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> So sorry, missed these posts somehow, i tool Chloe to the vet with one of these spasms, the first she had, the vet just examined her by feeling her stomach then gave her a painkilling injection and an antibiotic injection, just after she had explosive diarrohea with blood, which absolutely stank, the vet then said oh that tells me she has colitis, that is typical,so no other tests, but she has quite a few spasms this week,which are obviously painful,
> Oh she had a course of prednisolone, which didnt seem to help much


As I thought most vets say colitis.. You can ask for metronidazole to help with a runny tum. But I would ask for more tests if I was you..


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All,

SallyCat, my 13 year old Maine Coon, was recently diagnosed with a rare type of lymphoma in a single submandibular lymph node. 

When the initial shock receded I started to search for information about the condition and how best to respond. However I found myself  and in a haze of 'ifs' and 'buts', pro's and cons and wondering which way to turn. 

Thankfully the internet is a vast resource of shared knowledge. This is the reason for starting this thread. I hope it will be a useful tool for those of us trying to do the best we can for our kitties who have already received this potentially devastating diagnosis or for those for whom it is strongly suspected.

Hugs
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley seems to be better back end wise..little bit blood today, but nothing I would be overly worried about..one thing tho he is eating less and does not seem to have the "hunger" he had before..he is still eating as much as he should tho..

Other than what I have posted, I'm not that concerned about giving him another dose on Wednesday..

Forgot to say on Wednesday I asked vet to give him the med then..she said have to wear gloves as can't touch the pill. I said I will hold him and you pop the pill down. Anyway she did but went to side of his mouth so I expected him to spit it, so I put my gloveless hand under his mouth ready, she smacked my hand out the way..I completely forgot I was not wearing gloves and she was..


----------



## Tao2

May have missed this but...why can't you touch the pill?


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> May have missed this but...why can't you touch the pill?


Just what vet told me but did find this,.

The reason that clients are cautioned when handling chlorambucil is because it is an alkylating agent. This is a type of chemotherapy drug that can be carcinogenic (cancer causing) and teratogenic (damaging to a fetus).


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Just what vet told me but did find this,.
> 
> The reason that clients are cautioned when handling chlorambucil is because it is an alkylating agent. This is a type of chemotherapy drug that can be carcinogenic (cancer causing) and teratogenic (damaging to a fetus).


:eek6:! That's pretty major


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> :eek6:! That's pretty major


Yeah which is why I took so long deciding..tho at the moment I don't regret him having it..but we will see if it works and he puts weight on..


----------



## Tao2

I have recently found out that my young (not yet 4) cats liver problems are caused by what the vet thinks is likely to be a liver tumour. Early days yet and I need to get more information but would be interested to hear anyone elses experience and advice.
She has been put on the drug Denamarin. Anyone ever used this?

Thanks so much for setting up this thread Kathin!:thumbsup:


----------



## Tao2

Just wanted to give everyone an update on Mittens. Despite her bleak prognosis, she is doing really well at the moment. Although I know that is hanging over her, seeing her doing well makes me feel much happier. 
She has had no vomiting at all for about a week (it stopped about 4 days after she went off abs, so maybe it was them?). Not lethargic and eating well. So that is all good.
Vet says that she should stay reasonably well because the liver copes for a long time but then will probably fail quite suddenly. Awful, but at least not a slow decline. She is seeing the vet again tomorrow (I don't like the fact that every member of staff now knows us, definitely been there too often) to find out about more meds.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just wanted to give everyone an update on Mittens. Despite her bleak prognosis, she is doing really well at the moment. Although I know that is hanging over her, seeing her doing well makes me feel much happier.
> She has had no vomiting at all for about a week (it stopped about 4 days after she went off abs, so maybe it was them?). Not lethargic and eating well. So that is all good.
> Vet says that she should stay reasonably well because the liver copes for a long time but then will probably fail quite suddenly. Awful, but at least not a slow decline. She is seeing the vet again tomorrow (I don't like the fact that every member of staff now knows us, definitely been there too often) to find out about more meds.


So pleased that Mittens is doing so well,paws crossed she keeps this up :thumbsup:.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Just wanted to give everyone an update on Mittens. Despite her bleak prognosis, she is doing really well at the moment. Although I know that is hanging over her, seeing her doing well makes me feel much happier.
> She has had no vomiting at all for about a week (it stopped about 4 days after she went off abs, so maybe it was them?). Not lethargic and eating well. So that is all good.
> Vet says that she should stay reasonably well because the liver copes for a long time but then will probably fail quite suddenly. Awful, but at least not a slow decline. She is seeing the vet again tomorrow (I don't like the fact that every member of staff now knows us, definitely been there too often) to find out about more meds.


Pleased to hear she is doing better. Could have been the ab's making her sick..I guess you can manage it with meds, be interesting to see what they suggest for her..did they say whether ibd caused liver problem or the other way? I would imagine if you can find the right balance of meds and food she should keep doing well..fingers crossed..

Riley's tray deposit was just as I was falling asleep and could not rouse myself enough to get up, so woke to a half and half in the tray and a mucky bum again  I just don't get it..he can go for a period of time no problems then a period with problems. It's like his body sees food as a foreign substance and needs to get rid of it..

I may get some white fish and watch him turn his nose up at it again  just trying to think of ways to settle his tummy with out upping the steroids. I daren't start switching foods tho whilst he is unstable..

I've let him out for a bit this morning has he has been stuck indoors pining by the window, I feared him getting depressed then with the horror of having to use a tray for his poo then being cleaned up, I wanted him to have a bit of quality to his day.


----------



## nicolaa123

Looks like I'm having fish for dinner 

I poached it very lightly about 5 mins for a small bit, he was running in/out my legs..flaked it up, he was miaowing..blew on it to make it cooler then put some down..he started to eat it  went out to check my curtains on the line (I discovered what he used to wipe his bum on ) 

Came back in and................he had not eaten any..

I will put it in the fridge and try again later..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Looks like I'm having fish for dinner
> 
> I poached it very lightly about 5 mins for a small bit, he was running in/out my legs..flaked it up, he was miaowing..blew on it to make it cooler then put some down..he started to eat it  went out to check my curtains on the line (I discovered what he used to wipe his bum on )
> 
> Came back in and................he had not eaten any..
> 
> I will put it in the fridge and try again later..


I

Hi all Sorry not to have been in touch but have just undergone surgery and still feel exhausted.
Nicolaa sorry to hear about Rileys setback What fish is he on - we usually have success with coley when cod plaice etc fail.

Hows Mittens doing the today?
Sallys eating ok but vomited yesterday - my dp is looking after her so she's not getting her supplements. Be glad when Im up and about to see to her .

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

buffie said:


> So pleased that Mittens is doing so well,paws crossed she keeps this up :thumbsup:.


How did Mittens do at the vets then
Hope it went well.
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Katy hope you are recovering well..

Riley continues with the runs.. not sure if it was the fish yesterday..or the dropped bit of tuna he pounced on..

Thinking to call vet tomorrow to ask about upping steroid again. It did help with the diarrhoea even though not the weight loss, or increasing the chlorambucil...


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Katy hope you are recovering well..
> 
> Riley continues with the runs.. not sure if it was the fish yesterday..or the dropped bit of tuna he pounced on..
> 
> Thinking to call vet tomorrow to ask about upping steroid again. It did help with the diarrhoea even though not the weight loss, or increasing the chlorambucil...


Thanx nicolaa

Poor Riley - he does seem to be having a rough time again. Let us know how he goes on if you do see the vet. 
Are you suggesting the chlorambucil isnt working or could his in appetite be a side effect?

Sallys had coley for dinner and chicken breast for tea. She spent all afternoon sleeping on the bed with me which was so comforting.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

His appetite is fine..still eating 200g-300g of food per day..he nibbled at the fish but did not tuck in..I would say at most 3 mouthfuls and then looked for his normal food.

I may try him again on horse..but again he did not really enjoy it. Only food I've ever seen a clean bowl with is the kangaroo..

Pleased Sally is looking after you


----------



## Tao2

Hi guys, Sorry to hear you are struggling with Riley eating Nicola, did vet say how long before you could see results with the chlorambucil?

Kathin, hope Sally is OK (and you) Mittens was sick too this morning for the first time in a week.

Re: visit to the vets, did not go well. Vet says her liver is now palpable which it wasn't last week so thinks tumour is enlarging quickly. He thought she looked quite bright and she hasn't lost any weight but he doesn't think she has got long with us. As you can imagine, I am struggling to remain upbeat about things today.

Nicola, to answer a question from an earlier post, the vet has not speculated about which came first, the liver tumour or the IBD (oh and don't forget the pancreatitis). The tumour came as a surprise to everyone, think vet was expecting to diagnose cholangitis. 

Hope Mittens diagnosis and prognosis has not panicked you all on here. I think we have been very unlucky, I knew lymphoma was a possibility but do not believe that liver cancer is common in IBD cats.:frown5:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi guys, Sorry to hear you are struggling *with Riley eating Nicola*, did vet say how long before you could see results with the chlorambucil?
> 
> eeeeeeekkkkkkkk..he is eating me??
> 
> Kathin, hope Sally is OK (and you) Mittens was sick too this morning for the first time in a week.
> 
> Re: visit to the vets, did not go well. Vet says her liver is now palpable which it wasn't last week so thinks tumour is enlarging quickly. He thought she looked quite bright and she hasn't lost any weight but he doesn't think she has got long with us. As you can imagine, I am struggling to remain upbeat about things today.
> 
> Nicola, to answer a question from an earlier post, the vet has not speculated about which came first, the liver tumour or the IBD (oh and don't forget the pancreatitis). The tumour came as a surprise to everyone, think vet was expecting to diagnose cholangitis.
> 
> Hope Mittens diagnosis and prognosis has not panicked you all on here. I think we have been very unlucky, I knew lymphoma was a possibility but do not believe that liver cancer is common in IBD cats.:frown5:


On more serious note..so sad for you and mittens..please give her a big hug and kiss from me an Riley..I really hope your vet is wrong and she outlives expectations I really do..always here for you and if anything I can do pls just say..poor little girl, no cat deserves this..but you have given her so much love from when you got her and have looked after her so well..this is the **** bit about being a slave..


----------



## Tao2

I don't know what the world is coming to. There's me opening my heart with all my sad news and what does Nicola do? Criticizes my lack of punctuation!

I think I have been secretly hoping the vet was wrong ever since last week, but every time I go and see him and he doesn't say, oh whoops, actually she is fine, sticks another nail in the coffin of my denial. Right, that's my whingeing done. Go on now, check all my commas and full stops are there....


----------



## buffie

Tao2 so sorry to read about Mittens  I had hoped from your last post that she was doing fairly well  Paws crossed here that she can prove them all wrong.


----------



## nicolaa123

Spoke to the vet..we are now stopping the steroid and he is on a course of metronidazole to try and calm down the inflammation..he has responded well to this in the past so fingers crossed we can get his diarrhoea under control again.

I tried him on horse (sorry buffie) last night and again this morning, but he refused it..I may give the z/d a go again, but will have to be the dry, which I really don't want as it plays havoc with his polyp..plus he is a biscuit monster..

I will have a think about this tonight and maybe pop up after work if they have some at the vets..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Spoke to the vet..we are now stopping the steroid and he is on a course of metronidazole to try and calm down the inflammation..he has responded well to this in the past so fingers crossed we can get his diarrhoea under control again.
> 
> I tried him on horse (sorry buffie) last night and again this morning, but he refused it..I may give the z/d a go again, but will have to be the dry, which I really don't want as it plays havoc with his polyp..plus he is a biscuit monster..
> 
> I will have a think about this tonight and maybe pop up after work if they have some at the vets..


Keeping Oscar in my thoughts nicolaa - sorry I can't suggest anything but hope his tum settles soon.

Sally continues to eat well and do all her coonie tbings but her lump is big . Am dreading her having to face surgery but . . . .

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Kathin, hope Sally is OK (and you) Mittens was sick too this morning for the first time in a week.
> 
> Re: visit to the vets, did not go well. Vet says her liver is now palpable which it is wasn't last week so thinks tumour is enlarging quickly. He thought she looked quite bright and she hasn't lost any weight but he doesn't think she has got long with us. As you can imagine, I am struggling to remain upbeat about things today.
> 
> .... The tumour came as a surprise to everyone, think vet was expecting to diagnose ats.:frown5:


Hi Tao I'm so sorry to hear your news . Is Mittens on chemotherapy or any other treatments? I have llots of things too say re holistic approach to cancer but still too ill to do much. Have you looked at Jean Hofves Little Big cat website?

Kath


----------



## Cloudygirl

Mine has a poorly bum again. If I feed him 1/2 of a fish a day along with wet he seems fine but if I cut out the fish within a day he has a poorly bum again. I don't get it!!


----------



## KathinUK

Cloudygirl said:


> Mine has a poorly bum again. If I feed him 1/2 of a fish a day along with wet he seems fine but if I cut out the fish within a day he has a poorly bum again. I don't get it!!


Hi Cg Nor do I but there must be something in fish that settles his tum apparently. 
When Sallys off her food coley is almost guaranteed to settle her and get her eating again.

It does seem odd as I can't imagine many cats catching large deep sea. fish. :rolleyes5:


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All, This is not a new study, but one that might be of interest to people whose kitties have gut issues. 
Sally, incidentally has been on colostrum for about 3 weeks ... I give it to help build her immunity not particularly for gut health, But she is doing quite well gutwise.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colostrum and milk-derived peptide growth factors for the treatment of gastrointestinal disorders
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 72, No. 1, 5-14, July 2000
2000 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

Raymond J Playford, Christopher E Macdonald and Wendy S Johnson


Colostrum is the specific first diet of mammalian neonates and is rich in immunoglobulins, antimicrobial peptides, and growth factors. In this article we review some of these constituents of human and bovine colostrum in comparison with those of mature milk. Recent studies suggest that colostral fractions, or individual peptides present in colostrum, might be useful for the treatment of a wide variety of gastrointestinal conditions, including inflammatory bowel disease, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory druginduced gut injury, and chemotherapy-induced mucositis.... ENDS 

HTH:yesnod:
Kath


----------



## Tao2

Thanks for posting that Kathin, will have be interested to read that. Have seen a few people with poorly cats have tried them on colostrum so it has been in the back of my mind but unfortunately having battled IBD for so long, am terrified of trying anything new because everything seems to make her IBD worse.

Edit: Kathin do you know if there is any evidence for safety specifically in cats as that review paper refers to humans? Cats being notoriously intolerant of dairy produce makes me very nervous looking at human data as I don't think the 2 species are comparable. From your own experience with Sally, does she tolerate it well? and is she tolerant of milk? Are you feeling any better?


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for posting that Kathin, will have be interested to read that. Have seen a few people with poorly cats have tried them on colostrum so it has been in the back of my mind but unfortunately having battled IBD for so long, am terrified of trying anything new because everything seems to make her IBD worse.


Yes I fully understand how you must feel Tao - colostrum is only 1 of many supplements that Sally has. BUT I do have to introduce each one very very slowly cos last time round I rushed it and caused quite a setback.

How is Mittens doing?

Kath


----------



## Tao2

Very up and down here. Have had a bit of a crisis in that she seemed suddenly to go very downhill quickly, lethargic, not eating. Started to panic that her liver might be packing up but also noticed she was very hot. Visit to out of hours vet (£££) because I just don't feel that I can risk even a few hours wait with a cat in her condition. Seems is an infection and she is now on an antibiotic cocktail and seems to be responding, brighter, temperature down, eating again. Of course, am fretting about effect on her liver and also that has now pushed her meds up to 7 separate doses a day!! She is tolerating it all very well at the moment, thankfully she is such a lovely natured cat that she forgives me all the pilling.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Very up and down here. Have had a bit of a crisis in that she seemed suddenly to go very downhill quickly, lethargic, not eating. Started to panic that her liver might be packing up but also noticed she was very hot. Visit to out of hours vet (£££) because I just don't feel that I can risk even a few hours wait with a cat in her condition. Seems is an infection and she is now on an antibiotic cocktail and seems to be responding, brighter, temperature down, eating again. Of course, am fretting about effect on her liver and also that has now pushed her meds up to 7 separate doses a day!! She is tolerating it all very well at the moment, thankfully she is such a lovely natured cat that she forgives me all the pilling.


Poor mittens..sending lots get well vibes her way x what meds is she on now? I hope she keeps responding well..


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Thanks for posting that Kathin, will have be interested to read that. Have seen a few people with poorly cats have tried them on colostrum so it has been in the back of my mind but unfortunately having battled IBD for so long, am terrified of trying anything new because everything seems to make her IBD worse.
> 
> Edit: Kathin do you know if there is any evidence for safety specifically in cats as that review paper refers to humans? Cats being notoriously intolerant of dairy produce makes me very nervous looking at human data as I don't think the 2 species are comparable. From your own experience with Sally, does she tolerate it well? and is she tolerant of milk? Are you feeling any better?


Hi Tao, I agree there's very little research on supplements for kitties - for anything much actually - and while I'm unaware of any on colostrum, all I can offer is empirical evidence. Its long been supported on the holistic cat lists I'v subbed to for years.

I started Sally off with a tiny amount and built it up slowly last time ... I'm unaware of any intolerance to milk but she has a very sensitive tum.. 
Because I've been ill and unable to attend to her this past week she's not been on any supplements at all, tho eating well on a healthy diet.

And thanx for asking, yes I'm out of bed today .. rather weak with badly upset tum ... beginning to think I picked up a stomach bug while in hospital 

Is Mittens cows milk intolerant? I was just wondering if they do goats milk colostrum ....

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> I have recently found out that my young (not yet 4) cats liver problems are caused by what the vet thinks is likely to be a liver tumour. Early days yet and I need to get more information but would be interested to hear anyone elses experience and advice.
> She has been put on the drug Denamarin. Anyone ever used this?
> 
> Thanks so much for setting up this thread Kathin!:thumbsup:


Hi Tao
So sorry to hear about Mittens possible tumour and wonder if this is a definitive diagnosis or not. I've not heard of Denamarin and in fact haven't as yet used any drugs for Sally. Is this the combination of SAMe and milk thistle you mentioned earlier?

In general terms my approach is holistic, tho I wouldn't absolutely rule out allopathic methods if all else failed. For me it would be a last, not first step, but of course I recognise other people take the opposite approach. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy scare the daylights out of me.

There's a list of holistic/herbal/homeopathic vets at British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons | British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons and Holistic Vet Ltd and Vet Index Online Directory - Complementary Medicine Referrals / Vet Homeopathy Referrals / Vet Acupuncture Referrals which is a great starting place. Many will no doubt be happy to work in liaison with your local vet if you simply want to provide support to allopathic treatments.

I think fundamentally its necessary to start building up the kitties immunity, help her combat inflammation and give her the tools to fight this illnes.

To that end I suggest there's a lot of good advice in Dr Jean Hofve's article on Home | Little Big Cat. Dr Jean is an experienced holistic vet and cat lover who I've been in contact with for over 10years.

There are all sorts of herbs and supplements that are safe and beneficial for kitties - so long as you research thoroughly beforehand - but the foundation is a good species appropriate diet.

Organic Raw is always best but be extra cautious about bacteria with your immune compromised kitty. 
There are also a number of good quality wet foods available for Zooplus, HappyKitty Company, Lily's Kitchen etc ... lots of threads on the Forum here ..

So that's my little summation for now which I hope others will add to as we go along.

Again I'm sorry we have to be here but can support each other to find the best way for our furry friends. 
Kath


----------



## Paddypaws

Dr. Turesky on Cooked Meat Carcinogens

I thought this article might be of interest to anybody following this thread.


----------



## nicolaa123

A hopeful update..since taking Riley off steroids and back on metronidazole as well as the weekly chlorambucil, I am pleased to say things are improving. Last Thursday he had such a bad up the tail poo and blood..Friday start the metronidazole, little better, Saturday better again (still tail cleaning but not as much), Sunday just a tail wipe, nothing really..today..no tail wiping, no sore bum and no blood!!

His appetite has been reduced, but to be fair two days out in the sun..I think I can put it down to this..last night he was so knackerred he did not even eat his supper  he has been naughty as well..

He has weight check week on Wednesday..maybe just maybe..

At least I've learnt that for any affect on diarrhoea he has to be on two pred a day, but with the metronidazole 1/4 tablet a day, I know which one i prefer him to be on!! If things improve after some time I will continue the second food hunt, although to be fair Riley loves the kangaroo..

I don't want I count my eggs, but hope we are turning a corner again!!


----------



## Tao2

Glad Riley improving. Mittens is also improving, been thundering around the house with Fluff Beast today, which is always a good sign.

Meds wise she is on:

*Denamarin*, which is liver support, once a day (on an empty stomach so quite difficult to time)

*Metronidazole*: liquid, soooo much easier than the quarter tab of stormogyl and no drooling issues as yet. Twice a day though.

*Noroclav*: another antibiotic half a tab twice a day

*Famotidine*: quarter of a tab.

*Vitamin B* tablet once a day.

So altogether 7 separate doses a day, am a bit nervous of making a mistake so I have a tick list to make sure she has had the right dose of everything. Am supposed to be away in the week but OH has never given a cat even one pill let alone 7!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Glad Riley improving. Mittens is also improving, been thundering around the house with Fluff Beast today, which is always a good sign.
> 
> Meds wise she is on:
> 
> *Denamarin*, which is liver support, once a day (on an empty stomach so quite difficult to time)
> 
> *Metronidazole*: liquid, soooo much easier than the quarter tab of stormogyl and no drooling issues as yet. Twice a day though.
> 
> *Noroclav*: another antibiotic half a tab twice a day
> 
> *Famotidine*: quarter of a tab.
> 
> *Vitamin B* tablet once a day.
> 
> So altogether 7 separate doses a day, am a bit nervous of making a mistake so I have a tick list to make sure she has had the right dose of everything. Am supposed to be away in the week but OH has never given a cat even one pill let alone 7!!!!


Interesting about the b12 tablet, I though injections much more efficient, I myself am deficient and have a b12 jab every twelve weeks, each time I ask if I can take a tablet and they say no.. it freakin hurts!!

Wish I lived closer as I would pop round for pilling duties..am bit of a dab hand even if I say so myself!!

Oh and pleased to hear mittens is doing better x


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Glad Riley improving. Mittens is also improving, been thundering around the house with Fluff Beast today, which is always a good sign.
> 
> Meds wise she is on:
> 
> *Denamarin*, which is liver support, once a day (on an empty stomach so quite difficult to time)
> 
> *Metronidazole*: liquid, soooo much easier than the quarter tab of stormogyl and no drooling issues as yet. Twice a day though.
> 
> *Noroclav*: another antibiotic half a tab twice a day
> 
> *Famotidine*: quarter of a tab.
> 
> *Vitamin B* tablet once a day.
> 
> So altogether 7 separate doses a day, am a bit nervous of making a mistake so I have a tick list to make sure she has had the right dose of everything. Am supposed to be away in the week but OH has never given a cat even one pill let alone 7!!!!


That is some long list of meds  Glad Mittens is improving,long may she keep it up


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Interesting about the b12 tablet, I though injections much more efficient, I myself am deficient and have a b12 jab every twelve weeks, each time I ask if I can take a tablet and they say no.. it freakin hurts!!
> 
> Wish I lived closer as I would pop round for pilling duties..am bit of a dab hand even if I say so myself!!
> 
> Oh and pleased to hear mittens is doing better x


Oh wouldn't that be fab if we could do pilling cover rather than leave it to the inept (ie my OH)! And you are quite right B12 jabs are more effective but there are 2 reasons behind the tablets instead. Vet wants her to have supplement of B group vitamins not just b12 and I want to save her from being dragged to the vet as she is now VERY stressed about vets visits. She's been there at least once but more often twice a week now for a weeks and she was pretty stressed out about going in the first place. She usually refuses to eat for the rest of the day when she has been to the vet, which is a nightmare.:frown:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Oh wouldn't that be fab if we could do pilling cover rather than leave it to the inept (ie my OH)! And you are quite right B12 jabs are more effective but there are 2 reasons behind the tablets instead. Vet wants her to have supplement of B group vitamins not just b12 and I want to save her from being dragged to the vet as she is now VERY stressed about vets visits. She's been there at least once but more often twice a week now for a weeks and she was pretty stressed out about going in the first place. She usually refuses to eat for the rest of the day when she has been to the vet, which is a nightmare.:frown:


Ah that makes sense..I know about the stress vet trips..lucky Riley will have this time a 3 week gap and I hope next gap will be even longer. I'm away for 4 days in September and worrying silly about him if he is still on meds then..as no way on earth my "cat carers" will be able to get a pill down him!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> A hopeful update..since taking Riley off steroids and back on metronidazole as well as the weekly chlorambucil, I am pleased to say things are improving. Last Thursday he had such a bad up the tail poo and blood..Friday start the metronidazole, little better, Saturday better again (still tail cleaning but not as much), Sunday just a tail wipe, nothing really..today..no tail wiping, no sore bum and no blood!!
> 
> His appetite has been reduced, but to be fair two days out in the sun..I think I can put it down to this..last night he was so knackerred he did not even eat his supper  he has been naughty as well..
> 
> He has weight check week on Wednesday..maybe just maybe..
> 
> At least I've learnt that for any affect on diarrhoea he has to be on two pred a day, but with the metronidazole 1/4 tablet a day, I know which one i prefer him to be on!! If things improve after some time I will continue the second food hunt, although to be fair Riley loves the kangaroo..
> 
> I don't want I count my eggs, but hope we are turning a corner again!!


You're brave  Hope Riley keeps on improving.I agree although the metronidazole didnt agree with Meeko it has to be better than 2 steroid tabs.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You're brave  Hope Riley keeps on improving.I agree although the metronidazole didnt agree with Meeko it has to be better than 2 steroid tabs.


Yeah.......but notice I said turn a corner again!!!! I just hope tomorrow I won't be :mad2: :mad2: but still :thumbup: :thumbup: and his bum is not :arf: :arf: and I am


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah.......but notice I said turn a corner again!!!! I just hope tomorrow I won't be :mad2: :mad2: but still :thumbup: :thumbup: and his bum is not :arf: :arf: and I am


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## KathinUK

buffie said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


  

Kath


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## nicolaa123

:cryin::cryin::cryin::cryin: :thumbdown: :mad2: :mad2:


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## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> :cryin::cryin::cryin::cryin: :thumbdown: :mad2: :mad2:


Same here. Very bad :arf::arf: and we had guests at the time.....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Same here. Very bad :arf::arf: and we had guests at the time.....


Oh no..............


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no..............


Oh no! Looks like it's doing the rounds again. .
Poor Sallys had two days of vomiting fur balls and the worst stinkiest diarrhoea ever.

Can't understand it - just when she'd been doing so well for 2 weeks. .
And I'd just got her really enjoying Terra Faelis which theoretically is perfect for her.

Really stressed now - hope some of you have made progress.

Kath


----------



## buffie

Sorry guys just seen these posts ,.Hope things are improving.
Meeko has been doing well for weeks now but this morning he has had dire rear,nothing bad but he doent normally have a problem in that area.I did give him a different food,one he has had before with no "effects" so hoping it was just that,we shall see.


----------



## Tao2

I have absolutely no clue what is giving Mittens the runs as she is on so many meds and I have been trying her on a vast array of new and previously banned foods as I am getting increasingly desperate to get her to eat something...anything....

I did think of Riley though when she came out of the litter tray with it all over her tail. And not a wet wipe in the house....off to buy some today. She had trod in it too, then traipsed through kitchen and lounge before I spotted her. I was desperately trying to clear it up, clean her up, mask the smell and disguise all these shenanigans from the guests....few more grey hairs this morning.:cryin:

Smiley talk was great but too limiting in terms of diarrhoea description....maybe that was a good thing though!

Sorry Meeko, Sally and Riley are all similarly troubled.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I have absolutely no clue what is giving Mittens the runs as she is on so many meds and I have been trying her on a vast array of new and previously banned foods as I am getting increasingly desperate to get her to eat something...anything....
> 
> I did think of Riley though when she came out of the litter tray with it all over her tail. And not a wet wipe in the house....off to buy some today. She had trod in it too, then traipsed through kitchen and lounge before I spotted her. I was desperately trying to clear it up, clean her up, mask the smell and disguise all these shenanigans from the guests....few more grey hairs this morning.:cryin:
> 
> Smiley talk was great but too limiting in terms of diarrhoea description....maybe that was a good thing though!


Just a thought,could it be too many meds ? Sometimes the side effects of meds can be as bad as the condition they are meant to treat


----------



## Tao2

Good point Buffie, I certainly think she seems overloaded at the moment!! She is starting on a break from the metronidazole today so keep your fingers crossed that her temperature doesn't shoot up so she can stay off it for a while. And I've taken her off the B vits just until the diarrhoea resolves as that was newly introduced so might be responsible. Nothing else I can cut out really.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Good point Buffie, I certainly think she seems overloaded at the moment!! She is starting on a break from the metronidazole today so keep your fingers crossed that her temperature doesn't shoot up so she can stay off it for a while. And I've taken her off the B vits just until the diarrhoea resolves as that was newly introduced so might be responsible. Nothing else I can cut out really.


All things crossed here,Metronidazole didnt suit Meeko it made him very itchy .


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Good point Buffie, I certainly think she seems overloaded at the moment!! She is starting on a break from the metronidazole today so keep your fingers crossed that her temperature doesn't shoot up so she can stay off it for a while. And I've taken her off the B vits just until the diarrhoea resolves as that was newly introduced so might be responsible. Nothing else I can cut out really.


Hi all Just a quickie for now but just wondering if Mittens is on antibiotics Tao. 
They can play havoc with digestive tract. There's a specific probiotic for that
Its called saccharomyces boulardii.

Hope all our kits are better soon - it gets so worrying eh. ?

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Sounds like we are all in the wars..tao2 one time during night riley did not wake me up to clean him, he used the curtains instead :'( 

Lets hope that all poorly bums get better very soon. I have said to riley I will sew his up if it continues!!

I will try keeping him in again, even tho it does not make any difference, but I need to try something..


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> Hi all Just a quickie for now but just wondering if Mittens is on antibiotics Tao.
> They can play havoc with digestive tract. There's a specific probiotic for that
> Its called saccharomyces boulardii.
> 
> Hope all our kits are better soon - it gets so worrying eh. ?
> 
> Kath


Yes she is on abs Kathin, she has finished metronidazole for the time being but has another 5 days on the other. Fingers crossed was metronidazole.

Off to check all my curtains now.....ewwww!


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Yes she is on abs Kathin, she has finished metronidazole for the time being but has another 5 days on the other. Fingers crossed was metronidazole.
> 
> Off to check all my curtains now.....ewwww!


Ah, that may partially explain it Tao, .. abx destroy the good gut bacteria.

I picked up a tummy bug while in hospital last week so can really empathise with all of our IBD kitties.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Well after reading about mittens having wet wipes, I thought maybe I should get some as I clean Riley with water and kitchen roll..so popped in pets at home on way back. Saw some that were labeled touché wipes (?) read through the ingredients and one listed was au de toilette (perfume) I was bit shocked especially as they are advertised as bum and bits wipes 

So I asked at the till who directed me to see the in shop vets (they have their own vet service now). Firstly I spoke with the nurse, who was rather curt and answered the phone whilst I stood there and proceeded with that conversation rather than ours (I could have been a prospective customer). She eventually rang the bell and out came the vet. Ask her about the wipes, explained Riley's problems. She suggested making some camomile tea and then using that to clean him up, she agreed the wipes with the perfume were not a good idea..saved me £7.50!!

Popped into waitrose and got some canned pumpkin. I have put a teaspoon in his food and he has barely touched his food  I may try it separate to his food see if he will eat it then..

One last thing I can not for the life of me remember when I de-flead him last, I normally write it down, so will de-flea tonight........boy am I going to be popular, messing with his food and the flea treatment


----------



## jaycee05

Sorry to hear about all your cats runny bums, i took Chloe to the vets last week with her colitis, she had a steroid injection, but it has made no difference, shes still getting bad stomach cramps, and here diarrhoea is worse, shes going several times a day, and not always in her tray, rang the vet to ask about her diet, he said he doesnt think changing her diet will make any difference
He suggested i take her in again and might keep her in, dont know why, unless to monitor her
Everything i have read on here suggests her diet might be contributing to her diarrhoea
Nicola kindly sent me some vet concept to try, but maybe she neede more time on it to see the effect,
I see some are on ABS what are your thoughts on having AB treatment?
I am sure the first vet i saw gave her antibiotics


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> Sorry to hear about all your cats runny bums, i took Chloe to the vets last week with her colitis, she had a steroid injection, but it has made no difference, shes still getting bad stomach cramps, and here diarrhoea is worse, shes going several times a day, and not always in her tray, rang the vet to ask about her diet, he said he doesnt think changing her diet will make any difference
> He suggested i take her in again and might keep her in, dont know why, unless to monitor her
> Everything i have read on here suggests her diet might be contributing to her diarrhoea
> Nicola kindly sent me some vet concept to try, but maybe she neede more time on it to see the effect,
> I see some are on ABS what are your thoughts on having AB treatment?
> I am sure the first vet i saw gave her antibiotics


I think it would be an idea to have some bloods done and poo samples checked. Ask them why they want to keep her in overnight as there must be a reason,????

Riley is on metrondiazole and has always responded well to it.

I really think you need to ask for some tests on Chloe..

Diet can be a factor so unsure why your vet would dismiss it..i would think about a different vet too, if it was me..


----------



## KathinUK

jaycee05 said:


> Sorry to hear about all your cats runny bums, i took Chloe to the vets last week with her colitis, she had a steroid injection, but it has made no difference....
> ...Everything i have read on here suggests her diet might be contributing to her diarrhoea....
> I see some are on ABS what are your thoughts on having AB treatment?
> I am sure the first vet i saw gave her antibiotics


Hi All, sorry to hear about Chloe's issues ... we all seem to be having quite a week it.
You ask if food may be contributing to her issues.

Well, in utter frustration with the situation I was again googling last night and came across an interesting and fairly detailed IBD article on feline nutrition.org --- Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment

Dunno if anyone's read this but the entire site refers to many of the long standing USA 'big guns' in feline nutrition - many from *way* back when 

Fundamentally the writer explains her views on the nature and development of inflammatory bowel and suggests putting IBD kitties on nutritious homemade chicken broth along with probiotics to facilitate healing, while slowly building towards a home made raw diet.

It makes sense to me. I've come a long way away from my mainly raw feeding days due to circumstances but think we need to go back there ASAP.

Sally has done a little better in last 24 hours on coley and chicken breast but no doubt has lost weight over the last week. 

I hope this article may help us deal with this stressful condition.

Kath


----------



## jaycee05

Thank you for your replies, i first spoke to a vet nurse who went to ask the vet about what food would be best for her,she said the vet said he didnt think changing her diet would make any difference, but bring her in,he might might want to keep her overnight, but whether the vet said that or she did, dont know, would think he did really


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> Thank you for your replies, i first spoke to a vet nurse who went to ask the vet about what food would be best for her,she said the vet said he didnt think changing her diet would make any difference, but bring her in,he might might want to keep her overnight, but whether the vet said that or she did, dont know, would think he did really


How good is your relationship with your vet? It is vital if this does turn out to be ibd that you have a very good relationship with your vet!! I can call mine and if free she will talk to me or will call me back. I take paper in with me with questions on and write down her answers. I have never felt vague with her, or not know what direction treatment is taking. I certainly would not drop off my boy at the vets with out knowing why!

Personally (I'm not having a go  ) I would call and make an appointment to see the vet with or with out Chloe, take a list of questions with you..(my brain goes to mush so find this helps) and work out the way forward.

If you don't feel confident in bring able to do this with your vet change now as ibd is a bloody long road and vet support is soooooooooo vital!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, I thought I would give a pumpkin update  he did not "go" yesterday and did not eat all of his supper  gave him pumpkin in his breakfast, came home half was left. He really is not enjoying it in his food at all!

I let him out as I knew this would be the easiest way to see if any improvement. He came back and there was only a small bit of solid poo on his tail. So I can tell it was not a runny, watery all up his tail poo, which is progress.

Now I know that it may not be the pumpkin but the meds kicking in.

I also know that controlling the diarrhoea is only half the battle..


......but it is so nice not to have to clean poo 

We will see how it goes..


----------



## buffie

Bit of a nuisance,would be good to know if the pumpkin was helpimg or not,then if it wasnt you could stop trying to find novel ways of hiding it from a suspicious cat


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Bit of a nuisance,would be good to know if the pumpkin was helpimg or not,then if it wasnt you could stop trying to find novel ways of hiding it from a suspicious cat


Yeah I know..I will keep with it for now but maybe reduce the amount and/or frequency..I will see out the tin, then stop and see if any changes.

How is mr m today?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah I know..I will keep with it for now but maybe reduce the amount and/or frequency..I will see out the tin, then stop and see if any changes.
> 
> How is mr m today?


Mr M is okay,no more :arf: infact no poo at all,so looks like it may have been the food, which is a pain as he seemed to like it and he has had it before with no probs.Suppose once I'm certain he is over this episode I eill need to try it again to see if it was the culprit :rolleyesw


----------



## Tao2

Glad the boys seem to be firming up. No such luck with Mittens, it's:arf::arf::arf: here. Still she's on good form so at least it's not bothering her.

Edit, next morning: distinct improvement! Yay!


----------



## jenny armour

altho I've tried on the forum today, I thought I would try here.
jack has ckd and up until the end of april his stools were very firm. then he had to go on the drip (again) as he needed a dental. he wasn't at the time dehydrated but because he wasn't eating or drinking, they put him on a drip for the weekend and he had the dental on the Monday. 
when he first came home his poo was distinctly loose and smelly, it smelled of the vets surgery so I put it down to being on the drip.
since then his poo has been soft and two weeks ago it turned runny so back up the vets and they put him on td and canicur for a days which seemed to firm up a bit. once I took him off of both it went back to soft. so the vet said put him back on the canikur and I kept him on his kd. the poo has been soft but formed but last night it turned very soft and today and little more runny.
I wonder if I should put him back on the td at least until Monday and see what happens, then speak to the vet


----------



## jenny armour

am waiting to get advice from vet


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> altho I've tried on the forum today, I thought I would try here.
> jack has ckd and up until the end of april his stools were very firm. then he had to go on the drip (again) as he needed a dental. he wasn't at the time dehydrated but because he wasn't eating or drinking, they put him on a drip for the weekend and he had the dental on the Monday.
> when he first came home his poo was distinctly loose and smelly, it smelled of the vets surgery so I put it down to being on the drip.
> since then his poo has been soft and two weeks ago it turned runny so back up the vets and they put him on td and canicur for a days which seemed to firm up a bit. once I took him off of both it went back to soft. so the vet said put him back on the canikur and I kept him on his kd. the poo has been soft but formed but last night it turned very soft and today and little more runny.
> I wonder if I should put him back on the td at least until Monday and see what happens, then speak to the vet


If the td worked I would put him back on that until you can ask the vet, after all they said to do that last time..


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> If the td worked I would put him back on that until you can ask the vet, after all they said to do that last time..


I have done and the canikur. have seen the vet, luckily the out of hours was at my branch. he has given me antibiotics, as he reckons there is something else underlying. I think it is unusual for the ckd cats to have the runs. 
can t remember the antibiotics unless I look, but I am sure they have been mentioned on here


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> I have done and the canikur. have seen the vet, luckily the out of hours was at my branch. he has given me antibiotics, as he reckons there is something else underlying. I think it is unusual for the ckd cats to have the runs.
> can t remember the antibiotics unless I look, but I am sure they have been mentioned on here


Maybe metronidazole?


----------



## jenny armour

that's it. I hope it works


----------



## KathinUK

jenny armour said:


> I have done and the canikur. have seen the vet, luckily the out of hours was at my branch. he has given me antibiotics, as he reckons there is something else underlying. I think it is unusual for the ckd cats to have the runs.
> can t remember the antibiotics unless I look, but I am sure they have been mentioned on here


Hi jenny ... canikur seems to be for DOGS!

Hope your kitties feeling better today.
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Glad the boys seem to be firming up. No such luck with Mittens, it's:arf::arf::arf: here. Still she's on good form so at least it's not bothering her.
> 
> Edit, next morning: distinct improvement! Yay!


Hi .. Mittens still doing ok Tao? Seems like all the IBD kitts are on the mend again. 

Sally's back to normal again now thankfully.
I'm giving her a few drops of chicken broth with all her raw meats now and that goes down well. Also just started her on Kattovit Sensitive which she likes.

I've just ordered some Grau Stomach/Intestine Herbal Paste from Zoo+ .. will let ya'll know if it helps .. IF I can get it down her that is :mad2:

Kath


----------



## jenny armour

KathinUK said:


> Hi jenny ... canikur seems to be for DOGS!
> 
> Hope your kitties feeling better today.
> Kath


so far so good and yes it does say for dogs, but the vet recommended it.
does anyone here know what flora paste you can use indefinitely?


----------



## KathinUK

jenny armour said:


> so far so good and yes it does say for dogs, but the vet recommended it.


Hmmm??



> does anyone here know what flora paste you can use indefinitely?


Hi Do you mean a probiotic you can use long term jenny?

I'm using iflora from Sedona Labs ... its a fine powder with little or no taste ... bit pricey but so far soo good.

Kath


----------



## jenny armour

KathinUK said:


> Hmmm??
> 
> Hi Do you mean a probiotic you can use long term jenny?
> 
> I'm using iflora from Sedona Labs ... its a fine powder with little or no taste ... bit pricey but so far soo good.
> 
> Kath


yes long term, trying to find something that I can just put into their mouths rather putting it on their food


----------



## jenny armour

update - he has just done a poo and although there wasn't a lot it was soft, will carry on with the medication of course and let the vet know tomorrow, but i'm not happy


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> update - he has just done a poo and although there wasn't a lot it was soft, will carry on with the medication of course and let the vet know tomorrow, but i'm not happy


Sorry did not read properly earlier..sorry to hear still soft. Maybe try the pumpkin..I know does not fix the under laying problem, but makes them (and us) more comfortable..


----------



## nicolaa123

Another pumpkins update..still seems ok, tho he has been going outside..I will try to keep him in for a few days so I can see the end result..but I have not had to clean him up at all. Mind now I worry that maybe he is not going..

But I would imagine I would see some signs if he was constipated 

Now I've got myself worried about that now


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Another pumpkins update..still seems ok, tho he has been going outside..I will try to keep him in for a few days so I can see the end result..but I have not had to clean him up at all. Mind now I worry that maybe he is not going..
> 
> But I would imagine I would see some signs if he was constipated
> 
> Now I've got myself worried about that now


Nicolaa surely he'd be uncomfortable if he were constipated .. swollen tummy?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for Riley and pumpkin.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa surely he'd be uncomfortable if he were constipated .. swollen tummy?
> 
> :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for Riley and pumpkin.
> 
> Kath


No swollen tummy or being uncomfortable..I feel bad though a bit as he does not like it in his food, need to now work out the happy medium


----------



## jenny armour

where do you get the pumpkin from Nicola, and how do you feed him it. jack is so picky,, when he has his renal wet, I have to sieve it and hand feed him.
i'm glad i'm not the only worrier here, my friends just ignore me saying I 'witter' and that I stress the cat out


----------



## Tao2

jenny armour said:


> where do you get the pumpkin from Nicola, and how do you feed him it. jack is so picky,, when he has his renal wet, I have to sieve it and hand feed him.
> i'm glad i'm not the only worrier here, my friends just ignore me saying I 'witter' and that I stress the cat out


That's why I love PF. I can come on here and obsess about my pet-worries and get great support and advice back instead of bothering the fools that surround me in real life.....:001_tt2:


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> where do you get the pumpkin from Nicola, and how do you feed him it. jack is so picky,, when he has his renal wet, I have to sieve it and hand feed him.
> i'm glad i'm not the only worrier here, my friends just ignore me saying I 'witter' and that I stress the cat out


I buy from Waitrose its called libbys and is in a can. I add teaspoon to his dinner but have to really mix it in, or you maybe lucky and your boy will just eat it..


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> I buy from Waitrose its called libbys and is in a can. I add teaspoon to his dinner but have to really mix it in, or you maybe lucky and your boy will just eat it..


something tells me that I doubt it, jack is predictable in that he is fussy in absolutely everything


----------



## jenny armour

Tao2 said:


> That's why I love PF. I can come on here and obsess about my pet-worries and get great support and advice back instead of bothering the fools that surround me in real life.....:001_tt2:


and a lot of these people call themselves pet lovers. I must admit that if and when I lose my babies I doubt very much if I will have anymore, it does my brain and health in


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> That's why I love PF. I can come on here and obsess about my pet-worries and get great support and advice back instead of bothering the fools that surround me in real life.....:001_tt2:


Yes Tao I do agree, we shouldn't be made to feel as if there's something wrong in caring for our pets.

Just back from the vets and Sally's lost another 100gms in 2 weeks -- also off her food again having thrown another humongous furball last night 
Think its cos her diet isn't properly balanced..

Vet thinks its a bad idea to keep changing her food, but doesn't seem to realise Sally has specific needs given her health issues. Science Die is junk and not good for her at all. If I could get her to eat just one or two or even three good quality foods on a regular basis then I wouldn't be changing anything.

Just can't seem to get this right ... so back to the chicken broth I suppose.

Anyway she's booked in for her surgery tomorrow ... and I'm really scared. The vet is going to do it while the senior vet is available as she's uncertain as to what she may find and wants help at hand should it be necessary.

Finger and paws crossed please for little Sally

Kath


----------



## CharlieChaplin

I have a feeling my uncles OH's cat has a rare type of cancer (in the lining of the stomach perhaps) my nan told me and she was a bit hazy with the details. When I speak to him I will find out more info regarding this. I think they went to a specialist in Winchester and have seen positive results! She's quite an old cat, in her teens.


----------



## Tao2

Oh Kath, will be thinking of you and Sally tomorrow and have everything crossed for a good outcome. Please do update us as soon as you can. Massive ((((hugs)))) to you both.

On the food front, I agree totally, would love to be able to consistently feed Mittens a good quality food but am reduced to trying a vast variety of not that great foods just to get something inside her.


----------



## nicolaa123

Everything crossed for Sally... Hope all goes well..


----------



## jenny armour

good luck with the op thinking of you hugs


----------



## jenny armour

well has been down the vets this morning as his poo is still soft. I took down a sample to be sent away and she has given him a vit b shot and a small steroid injection, so keep fingers crossed that maybe this has worked. he is still on id canikur and the antibiotics until further notice


----------



## KathinUK

Hi all, I've just come across a blood test called TK by VDI labs in the USA. It claims to be able to give a "differential diagnosis of IBD and lymphoma". Wonder if anyone's heard of it or had any experience with it.

Veterinary Diagnostics Institute

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi all, I've just come across a blood test called TK by VDI labs in the USA. It claims to be able to give a "differential diagnosis of IBD and lymphoma". Wonder if anyone's heard of it or had any experience with it.
> 
> Veterinary Diagnostics Institute
> 
> Kath


From what is on the site, looks like its available just in the USA.


----------



## nicolaa123

Back from his check up. He is now 4kg so has put on a smidge  she had a feel and he has a half and half type poo forming..so we have not beat the diarrhoea as yet..

So course of action to continue the metronidazole, but increase the chlorambucil to one every 4 days for the next month, then we go back for a check up..nice to not to have to go back for a month!!

She said any change to call her.

Oh and she said continue the pumpkin in his food.

You can probably tell from my post I'm a little disappointed, it's good he has not lost but I would hardly say its been a gain..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Back from his check up. He is now 4kg so has put on a smidge  she had a feel and he has a half and half type poo forming..so we have not beat the diarrhoea as yet..
> 
> ....You can probably tell from my post I'm a little disappointed, it's good he has not lost but I would hardly say its been a gain..


Nicolaa, yes maybe a little setback for you ... or maybe your expectations were too high. But at least as you say Riley hasn't lost any weight which can only be a good thing.

Did your vet give you an idea of anticipated weight gain then?

Hope he continues not to lose any

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa, yes maybe a little setback for you ..*. or maybe your expectations were too high* But at least as you say Riley hasn't lost any weight which can only be a good thing.
> 
> Did your vet give you an idea of anticipated weight gain then?
> 
> Hope he continues not to lose any
> 
> Kath


You are probably right..


----------



## jenny armour

nicolaa123 said:


> You are probably right..


i know how you are feeling Nicola, this is how I am with my lot, sometimes I don't ant to get up in the mornings, because I don't know what I will find when I get up, terrible isn't it?


----------



## Tao2

I am struggling to remain chipper at the moment too!! Worrying myself sick trying to give Mittens every chance, whilst Vet assures me all my efforts are utterly futile. :frown2:

Yesterday one of the rabbits didn't want her tea and I just felt I didn't have the energy for another poorly pet. Luckily it turned out that she was just having a sulk!!:thumbup1:


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> i know how you are feeling Nicola, this is how I am with my lot, sometimes I don't ant to get up in the mornings, because I don't know what I will find when I get up, terrible isn't it?


well I had nice surprise in the litter box this morning, it was a half and half but not to bad and he was clean, mind I did not check my curtains


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> I am struggling to remain chipper at the moment too!! Worrying myself sick trying to give Mittens every chance, whilst Vet assures me all my efforts are utterly futile. :frown2:
> 
> Yesterday one of the rabbits didn't want her tea and I just felt I didn't have the energy for another poorly pet. Luckily it turned out that she was just having a sulk!!:thumbup1:


I feel for you I really do..


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> I feel for you I really do..


Thanks Nicola, but what I was really fishing for with the old sob story was more tales of public nudity from you......mind you a description of what Riley did in his litter box is always a good second best!


----------



## KathinUK

Tao2 said:


> Thanks Nicola, but what I was really fishing for with the old sob story was more tales of public nudity from you......mind you a description of what Riley did in his litter box is always a good second best!


Do you mean like personal stuff Tao such as stressed beyond belief?

Kath x


----------



## Tao2

I was referring to a recent thread:



> He's fat, he's fluffy, he's in disgrace


Sorry, no idea how to make that a link.

It detailed embarrassing admissions of cat-induced-nudity. :blushing: from both Nicola and myself :blushing:


----------



## KathinUK

CharlieChaplin said:


> I have a feeling my uncles OH's cat has a rare type of cancer (in the lining of the stomach perhaps) my nan told me and she was a bit hazy with the details. When I speak to him I will find out more info regarding this. I think they went to a specialist in Winchester and have seen positive results! She's quite an old cat, in her teens.


Hi CC sorry but only just spotted your message.

Hmm, thanx for that, it may be helpful to learn what happened ... the trouble of course with these rare diseases is there aren't any studies of how things go so its virtually impossible to give a prognosis.

Sally's cancer however does look very much like Hodgkins or a sub set of it and in humans the prognosis is good.

Kath


----------



## jenny armour

sometimes, it just easier to count up what cats aren't having some trouble.
I have torre and troy with stomach trouble and have been like this since I had them at 13 weeks old. they have been to the vet when I first had them but all the vet came up with was ear mites and worming. otherwise they are not losing weight and seem pretty bright otherwise. I expect one day I will have to look into it. Charlie as you know has trouble with her poos and of course jack and last but not least, sonni my 16 year old raggie with neurological problems since he was 6 (possibly born with it) and he is a little on the double incontinent side now.
oh also jack and oliver are spraying, I think due to other cats coming into the garden.
I think I have had my worry out into the open now. does anyone know what it is like to have a healthy cat household


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Back from his check up. He is now 4kg so has put on a smidge  she had a feel and he has a half and half type poo forming..so we have not beat the diarrhoea as yet..
> 
> So course of action to continue the metronidazole, but increase the chlorambucil to one every 4 days for the next month, then we go back for a check up..nice to not to have to go back for a month!!
> 
> She said any change to call her.
> 
> Oh and she said continue the pumpkin in his food.
> 
> You can probably tell from my post I'm a little disappointed, it's good he has not lost but I would hardly say its been a gain..


Nicola so sorry I missed this lastnight,maybe just maybe things are turning the corner,not much of a gain but not lost anymore so try to stay positive.



Tao2 said:


> I am struggling to remain chipper at the moment too!! Worrying myself sick trying to give Mittens every chance, whilst Vet assures me all my efforts are utterly futile. :frown2:
> 
> Yesterday one of the rabbits didn't want her tea and I just felt I didn't have the energy for another poorly pet. Luckily it turned out that she was just having a sulk!!:thumbup1:


I would like to give your vet a slap,even if your trying may not help in the end, there is no harm done in trying,vets have been wrong before.You will at least know if the worst happens that you tried everything you could.


----------



## Tao2

jenny armour said:


> sometimes, it just easier to count up what cats aren't having some trouble.
> I have torre and troy with stomach trouble and have been like this since I had them at 13 weeks old. they have been to the vet when I first had them but all the vet came up with was ear mites and worming. otherwise they are not losing weight and seem pretty bright otherwise. I expect one day I will have to look into it. Charlie as you know has trouble with her poos and of course jack and last but not least, sonni my 16 year old raggie with neurological problems since he was 6 (possibly born with it) and he is a little on the double incontinent side now.
> oh also jack and oliver are spraying, I think due to other cats coming into the garden.
> I think I have had my worry out into the open now. does anyone know what it is like to have a healthy cat household


Oh Jenny, you poor thing!! And there's me moaning about having 1 poorly cat! It's so hard to keep track of illness as well in a multi cat household. And again, I only have 2 to deal with!!:yikes:



buffie said:


> Nicola so sorry I missed this lastnight,maybe just maybe things are turning the corner,not much of a gain but not lost anymore so try to stay positive.
> 
> I would like to give your vet a slap,even if your trying may not help in the end, there is no harm done in trying,vets have been wrong before.You will at least know if the worst happens that you tried everything you could.


He's alright really, my vet, I think he just feels he has to make sure I don't start clinging to false hope. It is very hard not to cling to false hope though. It's the false hope that gets me through the day!!

Ooh new skill, multi-quote!!


----------



## vesta

I have just read your post and I felt the need to reply... I do not know anything on how a lymphoma is treated in cats, but I have a Hodgkin lymphoma myself, that I am fighting right now. 

Thus, all I can tell you is that yes, in humans the prognosis is expected to be good when discovered on time (in fact they claim the best for a lymphoma, but also with quite high chances of reappearance if not radiated, or second cancers due to chemo), but the chemotherapy is VERY hard, at least that's what I am experiencing right now. 

So in my modest opinion, if there is any other alternative to chemo that might help your cat in case the variation of the lymphoma is not very aggressive or fast spreading, I will certainly discuss it with your vet or someone more specialized on this field that can give you better advice.

Wish you lots of strength in such a hard moment, and lots of courage to your cat to overcome it successfully!


----------



## KathinUK

jenny armour said:


> sometimes, it just easier to count up what cats aren't having some trouble.
> ....
> I think I have had my worry out into the open now. does anyone know what it is like to have a healthy cat household


Hi Jenny I'm sorry to hear of all your kitty issues. That must be sooo stressful for you.
The beauty of this forum is you can express such things and people understand.

Three months ago I thought I had 2 strong healthy teenage cats whom I'd lovingly cherished all their lives. With Wispe's sudden death in March followed by Sallys cancer diagnosis and IBD I feel stunned and wonder if things will ever be normal again.

So take care and feel free to share -we're listening .
Hugs
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

jenny armour said:


> sometimes, it just easier to count up what cats aren't having some trouble.
> I have torre and troy with stomach trouble and have been like this since I had them at 13 weeks old. they have been to the vet when I first had them but all the vet came up with was ear mites and worming. otherwise they are not losing weight and seem pretty bright otherwise. I expect one day I will have to look into it. Charlie as you know has trouble with her poos and of course jack and last but not least, sonni my 16 year old raggie with neurological problems since he was 6 (possibly born with it) and he is a little on the double incontinent side now.
> oh also jack and oliver are spraying, I think due to other cats coming into the garden.
> I think I have had my worry out into the open now. does anyone know what it is like to have a healthy cat household


I think these cats are sent to us for a reason, as we do not give up on them or dump them..

I've learnt now to celebrate each and every solid poo :yikes:

I've just got to have maybe more realistic vision where it comes to weight gain


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola so sorry I missed this lastnight,maybe just maybe things are turning the corner,not much of a gain but not lost anymore so try to stay positive.
> 
> I would like to give your vet a slap,even if your trying may not help in the end, there is no harm done in trying,vets have been wrong before.You will at least know if the worst happens that you tried everything you could.


Turn so many corners I'm getting dizzy


----------



## jenny armour

thank you very much girls for your support, it really does help when you have like minded people around you.
jack had another poo about 1/2 hour ago and it was soft. do you know up until he was on the last drip which was end of april he was almost constipated and came out with the runs. I hope it is an unrelated problem, but I have read the diarrroh can be a symptom, anyway I am waiting for the result of a sample to come through. I keep kidding myself that maybe they either have it wrong or the disease will disappear.
what is it about cats with upset stomachs nowadays, I never had this trouble with my old moggies, or was I just lucky?


----------



## Tao2

Jenny, You are quite right, I've had cats for nearly all my life and until my current cats, they were fed bog standard supermarket cat food. I cannot remember ANY cat having diarrhoea. My last cat was a bit of a vomiter in his dotage. I know Mittens has severe problems with liver disease but Fluff Beast is fit and healthy and he is still prone to a spot of vomiting and diarrhoea....is it the food? An undiagnosed infection? No idea, but is a pain and clearly we are not alone...:angry:.


----------



## CharlieChaplin

KathinUK said:


> Hi CC sorry but only just spotted your message.
> 
> Hmm, thanx for that, it may be helpful to learn what happened ... the trouble of course with these rare diseases is there aren't any studies of how things go so its virtually impossible to give a prognosis.
> 
> Sally's cancer however does look very much like Hodgkins or a sub set of it and in humans the prognosis is good.
> 
> Kath


It must have been hard to learn all about this area for Sally! But I am really glad she is on the mend. You deserve this good turn of events  hope the vet has great news on Wednesday (that is when he's next seeing her? Otherwise I now seem daft  ) go Sally  xx


----------



## KathinUK

vesta said:


> I have just read your post and I felt the need to reply... I do not know anything on how a lymphoma is treated in cats, but I have a Hodgkin lymphoma myself, that I am fighting right now. .....
> 
> Wish you lots of strength in such a hard moment, and lots of courage to your cat to overcome it successfully!


I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time with chemo for your Hodgkins Vesta in addition to all you're going through with your sick kitten.

Sallys biopsy came back as indolent and slows growing so I'm really hoping removal of the lymph node will be the end of it. I am giving her various supplements and herbs to help build her immunity and we also have a herbal vet.

So I have no plans to do either cheno or radiotherapy as they do not sit well with my outlook.

My best wishes for your sucessful reccovery from this disease and I do hope you give yourself time and space to grieve over your kitty.

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

CharlieChaplin said:


> It must have been hard to learn all about this area for Sally! But I am really glad she is on the mend. You deserve this good turn of events  hope the vet has great news on Wednesday (that is when he's next seeing her? Otherwise I now seem daft  ) go Sally  xx


Yes it is Wednesday Charlie - thanx for your kind thoughts 
Kath


----------



## jenny armour

Tao2 said:


> Jenny, You are quite right, I've had cats for nearly all my life and until my current cats, they were fed bog standard supermarket cat food. I cannot remember ANY cat having diarrhoea. My last cat was a bit of a vomiter in his dotage. I know Mittens has severe problems with liver disease but Fluff Beast is fit and healthy and he is still prone to a spot of vomiting and diarrhoea....is it the food? An undiagnosed infection? No idea, but is a pain and clearly we are not alone...:angry:.


makes you wonder doesn't it?
my last two troy and torre, came from a lovely breeder. when I got them home the first night they had the runs, but I put it down to the worming. they are now 2 in September and still like it. I did tell the breeder earlier on, but she reckoned they weren't like it when they were with her. 
I also noticed that the stud boy has now been neutered. I did ask her why she had done that, as she was talking about repeating the mating as the kittens were beautiful, but she never replied. I don't think she had had the stud boy that long, but it makes you wonder.


----------



## KathinUK

jenny armour said:


> makes you wonder doesn't it?
> my last two troy and torre, came from a lovely breeder. when I got them home the first night they had the runs, but I put it down to the worming. they are now 2 in September and still like it. I did tell the breeder earlier on, but she reckoned they weren't like it when they were with her.


Hmm similar here but I put it down to change of diet and stress of leaving her mum.
But its been intermittent ever since- not much of an issue when completely raw fed tho.



> I also noticed that the stud boy has now been neutered.


Sals dad got FIP when she was 6years old and the breeder neutered all her kitties and stopped breeding. Was very sad as she was honest, open and loved the kits.
She had bred a top Euro Champion due to her dedication along with some gorgeous show cats. But I do wonder at times if there is some genetic predisposition.

Kath


----------



## vesta

Yes, my poor Vesta could not make it in the end... Now he is somewhere better, without pain... but we now have to heal our pain for him as well...

I am very glad to read that your Sally is managing without chemo, as there is only one node affected it gives much more chances of a very successful local treatment. Radio might not be so bad, but chemo... I can only say, with all the pain in my heart, that I would not put my cat through what I'm having, so I think your decision is very wise. 

Anyway respect to me, I have good a prognosis. It is being hard but I'm sure I'm going to recover, and much stronger for the future after this experience in my 25s.

Best wishes for your lady! Im sure she will also make it!


----------



## nicolaa123

Quick update..Riley HATES pumpkin in his food, we have had a few days of battling with him eating..I did one day give him less and although not a bad poo he still had a messy bum and little bit blood after  however how can I be sure it's not the pumpkin helping or not 

Have to say he looks soooooooooooooooooooo much better a million % better his coat looks good not gappy anymore or anything.. He is doing well on his chlorambucil every 4 days, I need to get some gloves tho as the ones my vet gave me are far too small for my hands. I also must remember to take a claim form up there so might get some more gloves then.

A clean bum makes a happy slave


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Quick update..Riley HATES pumpkin in his food, we have had a few days of battling with him eating..I did one day give him less and although not a bad poo he still had a messy bum and little bit blood after  however how can I be sure it's not the pumpkin helping or not
> 
> Have to say he looks soooooooooooooooooooo much better a million % better his coat looks good not gappy anymore or anything.. He is doing well on his chlorambucil every 4 days, I need to get some gloves tho as the ones my vet gave me are far too small for my hands. I also must remember to take a claim form up there so might get some more gloves then.
> 
> A clean bum makes a happy slave


Yayyyyyyyyyyyy great news paws crossed you have found the wonder drug,its about time you and the gorgeous Mr R had some good news to tell us 

Oh BTW Meeko has just vomited right down the radiator and the side of his Diogenes Barrel :arf: first time since January  hope it is a "one of"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yayyyyyyyyyyyy great news paws crossed you have found the wonder drug,its about time you and the gorgeous Mr R had some good news to tell us
> 
> Oh BTW Meeko has just vomited right down the radiator and the side of his Diogenes Barrel :arf: first time since January  hope it is a "one of"


Oh no..did he eat any grass when he was outside?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no..did he eat any grass when he was outside?


Nope, if it wasnt laid on a silver platter with polished cutlery he wouldnt consider it edible  I hope he isnt becoming immune to the famotidine


----------



## Paddypaws

Very interesting article on one of my favourite sites
Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment


----------



## KathinUK

Paddypaws said:


> Very interesting article on one of my favourite sites
> Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment


Thanx PP for the reminder - this is a corking article from corking site 

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Paddypaws said:


> Very interesting article on one of my favourite sites
> Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment


It is a great article..problem with Riley, is raw food is not "food" to him, have tried several different raw foods with him, but he just does not get that it's food 

If anyone has and tips on getting a cat to eat raw...I'm willing to try again..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It is a great article..problem with Riley, is raw food is not "food" to him, have tried several different raw foods with him, but he just does not get that it's food
> 
> If anyone has and tips on getting a cat to eat raw...I'm willing to try again..


You can add Meeko to that request too


----------



## KathinUK

buffie said:


> You can add Meeko to that request too


Can I presume you've tried all the little tricks such as warming, topping with tasty treats and hand feeding? Mine were on raw from early days but I wonder if you can teach an older cat new trix 

Kath


----------



## buffie

KathinUK said:


> Can I presume you've tried all the little tricks such as warming, topping with tasty treats and hand feeding? Mine were on raw from early days but I wonder if you can teach an older cat new trix
> 
> Kath


I have tried every trick in the book,and then some .He is the fussiest /pickiest sod of a cat.
I have all kinds of bother with his food and the fact that he is not food orientated at all doesnt help,he would rather go hungry than eat anything he doesnt like.
When he was first diagnosed with IBD he was so unhappy when we were trying an elimination diet that we had to give in he just wouldnt eat any of them.


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> I have tried every trick in the book,and then some .He is the fussiest /pickiest sod of a cat.
> I have all kinds of bother with his food and the fact that he is not food orientated at all doesnt help,he would rather go hungry than eat anything he doesnt like.
> When he was first diagnosed with IBD he was so unhappy when we were trying an elimination diet that we had to give in he just wouldnt eat any of them.


I think that it's because IBD cats often feel nauseous that they come across as fussy. It's really a matter of persuading them to eat rather than choosing what to feed them! Mittens is also formally in the 'raw is not actually food' camp! And no amount of warming, topping with delicious bits etc. will persuade her to eat what she doesn't want to eat so I am reduced to opening about 6 different varieties for every meal until I find something that will do. Fluff Beast has to polish off the rest, hence the ever expanding girth.....

So sorry Meeko has been sick after all this time. Fingers crossed it was just a one off....


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> I think that it's because IBD cats often feel nauseous that they come across as fussy. It's really a matter of persuading them to eat rather than choosing what to feed them! Mittens is also formally in the 'raw is not actually food' camp! And no amount of warming, topping with delicious bits etc. will persuade her to eat what she doesn't want to eat so I am reduced to opening about 6 different varieties for every meal until I find something that will do. Fluff Beast has to polish off the rest, hence the ever expanding girth.....
> 
> So sorry Meeko has been sick after all this time. Fingers crossed it was just a one off....


Meeko has been a fussy little sod from day one so unless he was born with IBD I think it is just the way he is.
I gave up long ago trying any new foods it just isnt worth stressing us both out.


----------



## nicolaa123

As soon as I can get weight on Riley and off meds I will be tackling food again..

Wonder how many kangaroo varieties I can find 




Right now I'm just happy he looks in better condition and poo issues are back to minimal..

One thing to note tho, not sure if its the chlorambucil or not, but man he is moulting!! I'm furminating daily but still he is shedding like I can't believe 



Buffie, hope its a one off with mr m..


It would be nice for all of us to have some positive news


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> As soon as I can get weight on Riley and off meds I will be tackling food again..
> 
> Wonder how many kangaroo varieties I can find
> 
> Right now I'm just happy he looks in better condition and poo issues are back to minimal..
> 
> One thing to note tho, not sure if its the chlorambucil or not, but man he is moulting!! I'm furminating daily but still he is shedding like I can't believe
> 
> *Buffie, hope its a one off with mr m..*
> 
> It would be nice for all of us to have some positive news


Me too  I had stopped looking for puke piles and now I'm back to not going barefoot through the house again,just incase


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Right now I'm just happy he looks in better condition and poo issues are back to minimal..


That sounds a big improvement nicolaa ... 



> One thing to note tho, not sure if its the chlorambucil or not, but man he is moulting!! I'm furminating daily but still he is shedding like I can't believe


Could be the spell of warmer weather tho .. I thought cats were unlikely to shed with this drug. Sally's molting a fair bit and threw a furball tonight, first for a little while.



> Buffie, hope its a one off with mr m..


echoes



> It would be nice for all of us to have some positive news


Yes I think we all deserve it ... Sally's weigh in Weds and stitches removal time. Paws n toes crossed for her please.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Me too  I had stopped looking for puke piles and now I'm back to not going barefoot through the house again,just incase


I'm sure there is a song there...tip toe through the ........

Can you increase the dose if its not a one off?


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> That sounds a big improvement nicolaa ...
> 
> it is amazing the change in his coat
> 
> Could be the spell of warmer weather tho .. I thought cats were unlikely to shed with this drug. Sally's molting a fair bit and threw a furball tonight, first for a little while.
> 
> Could well be
> 
> echoes
> 
> Yes I think we all deserve it ... Sally's weigh in Weds and stitches removal time. Paws n toes crossed for her please.
> 
> Kath


All paws crossed for you here..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> All paws crossed for you here..


Thanx nicolaa 
As I said on a separate thread Sallys weight is UP by 100gms this week, despite another disappointing hodgkins positive biopsy. With only one short setback due to a furball. She bounced back quickly.

I started her on Grau Stomach/Intestine paste from zooplus plus extra vit E along with Honeys raw and wonder if its cos of these changes. So much seems to be hit n miss with IBD/lymphoma.

How are the other kitties doing . .. been quiet lately :001_unsure:

Kath


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm sure there is a song there...tip toe through the ........
> 
> Can you increase the dose if its not a one off?


Sorry nicola I missed your post  I dont know if the dose can be increased or not or even if it would help.
Paws crossed it was just a "cat puke" moment he has been okay since 
Hope everyone elses furbies are doing okay


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Thanx nicolaa
> As I said on a separate thread Sallys weight is UP by 100gms this week, despite another disappointing hodgkins positive biopsy. With only one short setback due to a furball. She bounced back quickly.
> 
> I started her on Grau Stomach/Intestine paste from zooplus plus extra vit E along with Honeys raw and wonder if its cos of these changes. So much seems to be hit n miss with IBD/lymphoma.
> 
> How are the other kitties doing . .. been quiet lately :001_unsure:
> 
> Kath


Sorry to hear about the result  ibd cats seem to be very difficult in the food dept, hence why Riley only has one source of food, last time I tried it caused a big flare up 

He is doing ok, still getting a mucky bum on occasions, but no where near as bad as it was plus its not every day which is lovely! His condition is still improved which is the biggest thing I'm pleased with  I'm thinking to stop the metronidazole but carry on with the pumpkin and the chlorambucil.

His next weigh day is July 5 so hopefully he will have gained..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry nicola I missed your post  I dont know if the dose can be increased or not or even if it would help.
> Paws crossed it was just a "cat puke" moment he has been okay since
> Hope everyone elses furbies are doing okay


Good to hear he has been ok..maybe it was excitement from being out in his run


----------



## KathinUK

Hi all,

I recently came across a cat food at MedicAnimal.com called Liquivite, claims to feed and rehydrate sick and convalescing cats.
Looks like an alternative to Hills a/d food.

Don't personally know anything about it but it might be worth looking into if your kitty is struggling.

Medicanimal say 
"Liquivite both feeds and rehydrates sick, convalescent, post-operative or anorexic cats, which cannot or will not take solids or drink liquids. Liquivite is smooth enough for syringe feeding when appetite is absent, and readily consumed as appetite returns. Importantly, Liquivite helps to replace fluid when dehydration has occurred, or is a risk.

"Essential vitamins and minerals are included, at levels suitable for cats under stress conditions. Liquivite contains fish oil, supplying Omega 3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, which boost the immune system and are anti-inflammatory. A pre-biotic is included, to feed the beneficial bacteria in the gut. Rosemary, a natural anti-oxidant, is also added, as is yeast."

HTH
Kath


----------



## KathinUK

> Originally Posted *by Elizabeth and Bertie *
> Oh, Kath, I am SO sorry to read this.
> 
> My cat, Jim Bob, has cancer too so I really do understand how you must be feeling...
> 
> The oncologist thought that Jim Bob could have 6 months after his operation, and since the op I've been giving him curcumin (turmeric extract) twice a day to try to slow the cancer down. Is this one of the supplements you are trying too?
> 
> There is mounting evidence that curcumin can help with all sorts of cancers (in humans and in animals). And in one particular lab test curcumin destroyed feline fibrosarcoma cells (The next step would be to work out how much curcumin a cat would need to ingest in order to get blood serum levels high enough to have the same effect. But in the absence of that info I'm just 'winging it'...)
> 
> Sending a big (((hug))) to you,
> 
> Elizabeth x


Hi I've just copied this message from a PF thread about Sally's Lymphoma. Think, as a sticky, it might be useful to others at some time.

Elizabeth, I'm really sorry to hear about JimBob.  
What kind of cancer is it and would you be ok to feedback as to the effect or otherwise of curcumin.

Turmeric is one of the herbs in Sally's tincture tho we're not having a great deal of success in getting it into her. Trying to syringe it into her mouth causes her so much stress ... I feel so clumsy and it can upset both of us for some time. This, of course is the last thing anyone wants to do 

I read of a clinical trial which claims that cats can benefit more from curcumin than humans cos of the way their liver metabolises it. Will see if I can find a link to the study.
Also found a reference suggesting 100mgs per kg bodyweight tho can't testify to its accuracy.

In addition to turmeric Sally's tincture, made up by her herbal vet, has Siberian Ginseng, Chamomile, Valerian and Cats Claw I think. She also has colostrum, CoQ10, probiotics, Vit E and numerous combinations of bits and bats. I have mushrooms and IP6 on order from USA but seem to be a long time coming and digestive enzymes from Amazon, along with Lypospheric Vit C.

Its very difficult to get lots of supplements into a kitty without actually causing indigestion and/or upset tummy which obviously causes a setback.

Hope this is of some use but please let me know how you and JimBob are doing ... this seems a lonely little thread at the mo despite there being a few cancer kitties on PF.

Kath x


----------



## Elizabeth and Bertie

Hi Kath,

I am sorry, I encouraged you to start this thread and I meant to post here _ages_ ago but life suddenly took some unexpected (and unpleasant) twists and turns and all my time was taken up elsewhere.

Anyway, a bit about Jim Bob...

JB is a 15yr old ginger tom. A few months back we noticed that one of his back legs was bleeding, and found a lump there. The vet thought it was a fibrosarcoma, and suggested removing the lump and sending a sample off for biopsy.

Fibrosarcomas are usually locally agressive but very slow to metastasize. So, it can sometimes be possible to remove them and remove the cancer entirely.

However, JB's tumour couldn't be removed completely. Some strands of it had wrapped around the achilles tendon. Further, the biopsy results showed that it was not a typical fibrosarcoma; it was a particularly aggressive and malignant form of cancer called an anaplastic fibrosarcoma. The operation site didn't heal at all. And the tumour started to regrow almost immediately. It was raw and bleeding almost all the time, which was pretty horrible to witness.

So, then we were left with two options: We either amputate the leg or have him PTS. We _agonised_ over this decision.

JB had an ultrasound exam to determine the spread of the cancer. The ultrasound showed no obvious metastases, but the lymph node in the leg was very enlarged (unsurprisingly); and the next lymph node up in the abdomen was very slightly enlarged.

The oncologist thought that if we removed the leg we could give JB another 6 months of life. He advised against removing the lymph node in the abdomen. He said that could just seed the cancer throughout the abdomen and hasten the advance of the cancer.

It wasn't an easy decision to make. JB is an older cat, and we really didn't know how he'd recover from an amputation. But, he had no other health problems and seemed like he still had some living to do, so we opted to amputate. We thought it would be good to try to give him another summer.

We considered looking into the possibility of chemo. But JB suddenly got extremely fed up with vet visits, and so we decided not to go that route.

Curcumin
I read up about curcumin about it's apparent potential to help with all kinds of cancers (and indeed other conditions).

A few sources said that a typical therapeutic dose for a cat is 50-100mg. And doses of over 100mg per kg of body weight had been found to be ulcerogenic (sp?) in rat studies. So, I took a sort of middle ground with JB's dosage. I give 250mg twice a day.

He seems very healthy! And it would be easy to forget that he has cancer. He has a good appetite, good body condition, and is 'bright eyed and bushy tailed'... I have to deliberately remind myself that our time together may only last a few more months...

He has shown no digestive problems at all from taking the curcumin. And I can add it to his food and he just gobbles it up. I add a few drops of fish oil and olive oil at the same time as curcumin is fat soluble; and the added fat helps the bio-availability of the curcumin.

(And Kath, yes, it may be the case that curcumin works particularly well for cats because their livers may metabolise it differently to the way that human livers do...)

As to whether the curcumin will slow the cancer down, well, I have no idea... Watch this space....

I will try to find some reference info that I came across for curcumin and add that here.

Note: Curcumin is contra-indicated if there is liver disease or gall bladder problems; and it should be stopped well in advance of any operation because it can thin the blood and therefore increase bleeding.

I know that some folks probably think that treating cats with supplements is a bit wacky. But I've lost 3 cats to cancer, and could do little to help them back then; so I really want to try to help JB any way I can.

Eliz

_Edited to add: Just looked at my post again and realised what a long message it is.... Sorry if I've bored anyone; and thanks to anyone who made it through the entire post!_


----------



## nicolaa123

Well I have dropped one of the metronidazole each day, I was going to drop it completely but he came home with a scratch on his head. Nothing serious I've cleaned it and put some aloe Vera on it, so thought best to just cut the metrondazole back so it can help if his scratch gets infected..

Back end wise still looking good, still having a dollop of pumpkin every meal (he still hates it) plus the chlorambucil every four days. I am thinking to cut the pumpkin out for a few days after I've stopped the metronidazole to see what reaction we have. The chlorambucil has defiantly helped, his coat looks so soft and full again, hopefully also he has put on weight..we will see on that one....

If I can get a few weeks without any diarrhoea I will try him on the lamb cazzer sent, but will add maybe pumpkin to it..or am I crazy to push for a change so soon


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well I have dropped one of the metronidazole each day, I was going to drop it completely but he came home with a scratch on his head. Nothing serious I've cleaned it and put some aloe Vera on it, so thought best to just cut the metrondazole back so it can help if his scratch gets infected..
> 
> Back end wise still looking good, still having a dollop of pumpkin every meal (he still hates it) plus the chlorambucil every four days. I am thinking to cut the pumpkin out for a few days after I've stopped the metronidazole to see what reaction we have. The chlorambucil has defiantly helped, his coat looks so soft and full again, hopefully also he has put on weight..we will see on that one....
> 
> If I can get a few weeks without any diarrhoea I will try him on the lamb cazzer sent, but will add maybe pumpkin to it..or am I crazy to push for a change so soon


That sounds like an improvement :thumbsup: Probably wise not to change too much at the same time.Paws crossed he has put on a bit of weight
Hope he gave the other one a black eye


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> That sounds like an improvement :thumbsup: Probably wise not to change too much at the same time.Paws crossed he has put on a bit of weight
> Hope he gave the other one a black eye


I would imagine it will be Sam next door..Riley sits outside his cat flap until I move him  Riley wants to play, but Sam does not want to play  I was talking to my neighbour about it the other day, she laughed when I told her Riley waits for Sam by his cat flap..she says he is a grumpy cat 

How is mr m?


----------



## buffie

Mr M is (no words will be uttered ) :thumbsup::thumbsup:  He has developed a new saying though,it goes something like this...........
I Wanttttttttttttttttt outtttttttttttttttttttttttt nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


----------



## KathinUK

Elizabeth and Bertie said:


> Hi Kath,
> 
> I am sorry, I encouraged you to start this thread and I meant to post here _ages_ ago but life suddenly took some unexpected (and unpleasant) twists and turns and all my time was taken up elsewhere.


Sorry to hear that Elizabeth and hope things are improving a little now.



> Anyway, a bit about Jim Bob...
> ...It wasn't an easy decision to make. JB is an older cat, and we really didn't know how he'd recover from an amputation. But, he had no other health problems and seemed like he still had some living to do, so we opted to amputate. We thought it would be good to try to give him another summer.
> 
> We considered looking into the possibility of chemo. But JB suddenly got extremely fed up with vet visits, and so we decided not to go that route.


Sounds like this was quite a dilemma for you but JB's here 'to tell the tale'. 
I hear from our allo vet that chemo can be extremely stressful what with the actual treatment, blood tests and vet visits



> Curcumin
> I read up about curcumin about it's apparent potential to help with all kinds of cancers (and indeed other conditions).
> 
> A few sources said that a typical therapeutic dose for a cat is 50-100mg. And doses of over 100mg per kg of body weight had been found to be ulcerogenic (sp?) in rat studies. So, I took a sort of middle ground with JB's dosage. I give 250mg twice a day.


Do you mean 50-100mg per kg body weight or total dose? Do you get the powder or tincture ... sounds like its easy for JB to take .. Sally is so very faddy and seems to have a very sensitive tummy. Scan showed IBD or lymphoma - they're not sure.

If he's taking 500mg per day without issues then that seems amazing!



> He seems very healthy! And it would be easy to forget that he has cancer. He has a good appetite, good body condition, and is 'bright eyed and bushy tailed'... I have to deliberately remind myself that our time together may only last a few more months...


Hmmm, know just what you mean. Since Sally's surgery two weeks ago, she's been really well, bulking up again and becoming more of a chattercat. The vet reminded me today that she does have cancer and is only on palliative care so have to look at QoL issues. But I'm looking for CURE!!

I lost my Wispe in March to saddle thrombosis and couldn't bear to lose Sally as well



> As to whether the curcumin will slow the cancer down, well, I have no idea...
> I know that some folks probably think that treating cats with supplements is a bit wacky. But I've lost 3 cats to cancer, and could do little to help them back then; so I really want to try to help JB any way I can.


I'm so sorry to hear of these tragic losses .. you must feel devastated. 
Some folk - like me - think chemo is waaaaaky! Building up the immune system to fight off illness makes much more sense.

May JB ... and Sally ... continue to thrive 

Kath


----------



## Elizabeth and Bertie

KathinUK said:


> Do you mean 50-100mg per kg body weight or total dose? Do you get the powder or tincture ... .
> 
> If he's taking 500mg per day without issues then that seems amazing...
> 
> Kath


Hi Kath,

Yes, JB is getting 500mg per day, but that's spread in two doses so that it's easier on his tummy. I know of people who give more than this, but I'm a little 'twitchy' about that....at the moment... I'm currently using Jarrow Formula capsules (powder in capsules that I empty out and mix up with a little oil etc)

In tests on rats (poor ratties!) it seemed that single doses of over 100mg per kilo of bodyweight _could_ cause ulcers. JB weighs five kilos. So, I figured that (and this is assuming a cat's physiology is anything like a rat's!) the max I _might_ be able to give him to avoid ulcers would be 500mg per day. but I've split that into two doses: Partly to relieve any acidic stress on his tum, and partly because cats metabolise some substances (though by no means _all_) twice as fast as humans, and I wanted to be sure to keep his blood serum levels of curcumin up for as long as poss.

When I first started JB on curcumin I gave a smaller dose. I started out giving JB 125mg (quarter of a 500mg capsule) once a day to see if he would tolerate it. Then I gave that twice a day; and then, when I was sure he was still OK with that, I doubled the dose. So far he has shown no adverse effects.

Incidentally, I've also started giving my other 4 cats a token dose of curcumin. My cat with mild arthritis has shown some noticeable improvement in his ability to move around, and my diabetic boy is having the best blood glucose results that he's had in _years_.... But those are subjects for other threads...!

Big hug to you from a rather sultry Surrey,

Eliz


----------



## nicolaa123

Small update.. I've stopped the metrondazole so Riley is just on the chlorambucil every four days with the pumpkin in his food. Had little bit of an issue with the runs, but that's quite normal coming off the metrondazole.

He is being a right pain in the bum in the early morning!! Wants me to get up at 5 am for no reason 

Roll on his weigh in day..I'm hopeful even tho he looks a skinny minny


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Small update.. I've stopped the metrondazole so Riley is just on the chlorambucil every four days with the pumpkin in his food. Had little bit of an issue with the runs, but that's quite normal coming off the metrondazole.
> 
> He is being a right pain in the bum in the early morning!! Wants me to get up at 5 am for no reason
> 
> Roll on his weigh in day..I'm hopeful even tho he looks a skinny minny


Nicolaa ... he has a very good reason for wanting you to get up :crazy: :crazy: Do you leave him a little food out for night-time starvation? 

Hope all goes well with his weigh in .. when's he due and hows his bum? Oh sorry Riley 

Sally gained a mere 25gms or so but was 'off' yesterday - gladly she's much better today and trying to catch up with her eating 

Cos I don't know whether its IBD or lymphoma causing this, I really don't know which thread to post to.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa ... he has a very good reason for wanting you to get up :crazy: :crazy: Do you leave him a little food out for night-time starvation?
> 
> Hope all goes well with his weigh in .. when's he due and hows his bum? Oh sorry Riley
> 
> Sally gained a mere 25gms or so but was 'off' yesterday - gladly she's much better today and trying to catch up with her eating
> 
> Cos I don't know whether its IBD or lymphoma causing this, I really don't know which thread to post to.
> 
> Kath


He gets his last meal at 11pm! It's not hunger just him being a pain in the bum 

His weight check is on July 5. He does not feel as bony so possibly put on....

Hopefully Sally will continue to gain weight. I think ibd and lymphoma are very closely linked, which is why it's hard to tell which is causing the problems.

I know you did not want to go down the chemo route, but I can really recommend the chlorambucil it has really helped Riley with his condition and has had zero side affects. I was really worried about him having it, but I would not hesitate in him having it again..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> He gets his last meal at 11pm! It's not hunger just him being a pain in the bum


I support Riley's Protest ...   Mind you *I* don't have to get up for him!



> His weight check is on July 5. He does not feel as bony so possibly put on....
> 
> Hopefully Sally will continue to gain weight. I think ibd and lymphoma are very closely linked, which is why it's hard to tell which is causing the problems.
> 
> I know you did not want to go down the chemo route, but I can really recommend the chlorambucil it has really helped Riley with his condition and has had zero side affects. I was really worried about him having it, but I would not hesitate in him having it again..


I'm really pleased to hear Riley's doing well on the chlorambucil nicolaa and hear what you're saying about its potential for Sally.

However cos Sally's diagnosis is not Small Cell Lymphoma but T Cell Rich B Cell .. then its seems unlikely she also has SCL in her digestive tract. Unless she has 2 different lots of cancer but like yourself I'm not doing the biopsy. 
Chlorambucil is used alongside steroids for Small Cell Lymphoma but for Large Cell its not effective.

Incidentally the allopathic vet is now thinking Sally unsuitable for chemo anyway, when we take quality of life issues into consideration.

Kath


----------



## jaycee05

I am reading that most of the cats on here with IBD have lost weight, Chloe hasnt lost any weight, and is having no antibiotics ,when i asked my vet if changing her diet would help he said no, its nothing to do with her diet?


----------



## Elizabeth and Bertie

Some Curcumin info links:

Pure Curcumin Extract treatment for vomiting issues, IBD and Cancer - Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums

Curcumin for Cats | Margaret's Corner

Curcumin
(Scroll down the above link for an interesting story of a cat with feline lymphoma on steroid treatment and curcumin.)


----------



## Guest

where's the best place to buy Curcumin please?


----------



## KathinUK

Gopher said:


> where's the best place to buy Curcumin please?


Hi Gopher I bought Jarrow Formulas ( Turmeric Concentrate ) Curcumin 95 from Amazon co uk.
Kath


----------



## Guest

My cat has Lymphosarcoma I know VERY little about it at the moment as we just had her test results this morning. She had a very large tumour removed a week ago and is recovering extreemly well - we have decided against "aggressive" or invasive treatment (mainly due to her age) so are now looking at pallative care and subsequent treatment/s.

Bessie has a good appetite at the moment so I'm looking for therapies I can add to her normal food. I am ideally looking at Curcumin and Glucosamine, could someone please point me in the right direction (a) where to get these and (b) correct dosage bearing in mind Bessie is 4.6 kgs.

Do you think there could be anything else I should look at getting and would I be able to get these suppliments from somewhere on the high street like Holland and Barret?

Thank you :smile5:


----------



## KathinUK

Gopher said:


> My cat has Lymphosarcoma I know VERY little about it at the moment as we just had her test results this morning. She had a very large tumour removed a week ago and is recovering extreemly well - we have decided against "aggressive" or invasive treatment (mainly due to her age) so are now looking at pallative care and subsequent treatment/s.
> 
> Bessie has a good appetite at the moment so I'm looking for therapies I can add to her normal food. I am ideally looking at Curcumin and Glucosamine, could someone please point me in the right direction (a) where to get these and (b) correct dosage bearing in mind Bessie is 4.6 kgs.
> 
> Do you think there could be anything else I should look at getting and would I be able to get these suppliments from somewhere on the high street like Holland and Barret?
> 
> Thank you :smile5:


Personally I would avoid Holland and Barratt as their products contain lots of additives that are not good for cats.

Sally is on Neovite Colostrum plus iherb probiotics and lots of herbs and supplements when I can get them into her. She also has a holistic vet who prescribed a herbal tincture for her.

You could perhaps do a search on the forum as there's been quite a few discussions on this topic. Unfortunately I'm unable to link things till I have access to my PC later today.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> I am reading that most of the cats on here with IBD have lost weight, Chloe hasnt lost any weight, and is having no antibiotics ,when i asked my vet if changing her diet would help he said no, its nothing to do with her diet?


What advice did he give then??


----------



## Elizabeth and Bertie

Hi,

Re glucosamine, I get this for my (mildly arthritic) cat from VetUK Selling Pet Meds, Vet Products and Pet Products to Pet Owners.

Currently I get Cosequin sprinkle capsules for him (to sprinkle into food). But some people use Seraquin; and Vet UK have now brought out their own glucosamine supplement under their 'Pet UK' brand (and I _think_ - if you go to their home page - you can get a code for a 10% discount on their own products at the moment).

The link to the cats & dogs joint supplement page is here:
Pet Joint Supplements | Dog Joint Supplements | Cat Joint Supplements from £2.60

You _may_ be able to get these cheaper if you shop around, but Vet UK's prices are usually pretty good.

Re curcumin: I got mine from Amazon, as Kath did.


----------



## buffie

jaycee05 said:


> I am reading that most of the cats on here with IBD have lost weight, Chloe hasnt lost any weight, and is having no antibiotics ,when i asked my vet if changing her diet would help he said no, its nothing to do with her diet?


Sorry if I've missed a post,what are your cats symptoms and what are your vets thoughts .
Meeko my Raggie has had suspected IBD for over a year and although he does drop weight he usually puts it back on,or at least has done up to now.
When I say suspected IBD it can only be confirmed by taking full thickness biopsy samples and as this is only going to confirm the likely cause I don't want to put him through this.


----------



## jaycee05

Sorry only just come back on here, problems with internet
The nurse i spoke to said to bring her in and they might keep her overnight
I didnt take her in, as the day after she was fine,she had a bit of diarrhea and i said if it carries on i will bring her in, but it only lasted that day
She still gets occasional cramps, but is using her tray, the first time i took her she was having bad cramps,and just doing her business anywhere, she had a steroid injection, and been a lot better since
I will of course take her back if it starts again,but she has never lost any weight


----------



## buffie

jaycee05 said:


> Sorry only just come back on here, problems with internet
> The nurse i spoke to said to bring her in and they might keep her overnight
> I didnt take her in, as the day after she was fine,she had a bit of diarrhea and i said if it carries on i will bring her in, but it only lasted that day
> She still gets occasional cramps, but is using her tray, the first time i took her she was having bad cramps,and just doing her business anywhere, she had a steroid injection, and been a lot better since
> I will of course take her back if it starts again,but she has never lost any weight


If she has problems again it might be worth looking at her diet.What does she eat normally is it wet or dry and does it contain cereals as that can often cause problems.


----------



## nicolaa123

The thing with ibd is not all cats loose weight, have sickness or diarrhoea, have inappetence, or periods of ravenous hunger, or stomach cramps! They can have one or multiple (Riley) symptoms. That's the bloody difficult thing about ibd. Plus the symptoms can change on an almost hourly (Riley) basis!!

Whilst I agree to a certain part that diet is not the sole trigger, it can really help IMHO determine wether it's a food allergy ie most cats do not do well with grains in their food or if it is more than just a food allergy.

For example there are foods that cause a flare up with Riley and foods he tolerates much more (ok just kangaroo, but we are working on that  ) but he can still have a flare up on the "safe" food which to me says its not solely food related.

Personally I would ask for an ultra scan re the stomach cramps just to rule out anything else going on. You also find that ibd goes in cycles so whilst right now all maybe well............just round the corner it lurks..







On another note..I'm enjoying this period of non -ibd symptom time..I am worried about when he stops the chlorambucil as it really has been the wonder drug. Riley has been having a mad hour "killing" everything in sight and is now curled up on my lap, his coat is so much better, not all gappy and it has a shine again, feels soft not greasy..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> On another note..I'm enjoying this period of non -ibd symptom time..I am worried about when he stops the chlorambucil as it really has been the wonder drug. Riley has been having a mad hour "killing" everything in sight and is now curled up on my lap, his coat is so much better, not all gappy and it has a shine again, feels soft not greasy..


No disrespect to the rest of your post,I agree with it all  but this bit makes such good reading  
I'm delighted that things are all looking much better(at the moment ) Paws crossed it carries on and the gorgeous Riley and his slave have found the wonder drug they have been looking for :thumbsup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well Riley has been sick this morning..brown liquid. I think I know why. He woke me up at 4 am as he wanted the toilet so I put him out the bedroom and closed the door..3 minutes later I hear scratching so got up and cleaned his tray, nice poo all formed bit soft on the end but no dramas. I noticed he had not eaten his supper last night, so I binned that and put down some fresh.

Got up this morning, he had had a nibble, binned put fresh again  he asked to go out, it's raining here so I knew he would not be out long. I had the window open and in he came 5 mins later and was sick..I had a newspaper to hand so managed to catch it both times.

So I'm thinking his tummy was empty he would have gone and ate some grass like he always does and that made him sick.. 

I have finally got him to eat and he is tucking away now after a long time looking at the food as if it was evil :rolleyes5: 

Also I have been off work this week so think his routine is out of sync. I will keep an eye on him, I'm not overly concerned as he is eating not lip smacking or showing any other signs of being un well..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well Riley has been sick this morning..brown liquid. I think I know why. He woke me up at 4 am as he wanted the toilet so I put him out the bedroom and closed the door..3 minutes later I hear scratching so got up and cleaned his tray, nice poo all formed bit soft on the end but no dramas. I noticed he had not eaten his supper last night, so I binned that and put down some fresh.
> 
> Got up this morning, he had had a nibble, binned put fresh again  he asked to go out, it's raining here so I knew he would not be out long. I had the window open and in he came 5 mins later and was sick..I had a newspaper to hand so managed to catch it both times.
> 
> So I'm thinking his tummy was empty he would have gone and ate some grass like he always does and that made him sick..
> 
> I have finally got him to eat and he is tucking away now after a long time looking at the food as if it was evil :rolleyes5:
> 
> Also I have been off work this week so think his routine is out of sync. I will keep an eye on him, I'm not overly concerned as he is eating not lip smacking or showing any other signs of being un well..


Hope Riley is okay,you are probably right about his routine being out of sync how dare you b*gger about with his timetable 
It must be the weather for it Meeko was sick right in the middle of the bed this morning 
Most of his breakfast and a hairy fur sausage so hoping the "hairy sausage" was the cause


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All,

Just a quickie to say I hope both Riley and Meeko are better soon 

Sally's on the mend today fortunately. 

Kath


----------



## buffie

KathinUK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just a quickie to say I hope both Riley and Meeko are better soon
> 
> Sally's on the mend today fortunately.
> 
> Kath


Thanks for the update,hope she continues to improve


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope Riley is okay,you are probably right about his routine being out of sync how dare you b*gger about with his timetable
> It must be the weather for it Meeko was sick right in the middle of the bed this morning
> Most of his breakfast and a hairy fur sausage so hoping the "hairy sausage" was the cause


I wonder if our boys have been talking and plotting!! Still I got off lightly no sick in my bed 

Edit..maybe with the sausage it was his version of breakfast in bed he he!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just a quickie to say I hope both Riley and Meeko are better soon
> 
> Sally's on the mend today fortunately.
> 
> Kath


Pleased to hear this kath..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I wonder if our boys have been talking and plotting!! Still I got off lightly no sick in my bed
> 
> *Edit..maybe with the sausage it was his version of breakfast in bed he he!!!![/*QUOTE]
> 
> Ha bl**dy Ha :arf: :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

Now you know how I like to share 

Om my goodness Riley has a serious wind issue tonight!! I'm sat with my jumper over my nose it's very stinky!! I'm back to work tomorrow so if I don't get waken up tonight I'm really not looking forward to my tray deposit when I get home!

It's his own fault..I was sat watching tv and thought he was very quiet. I found him in the kitchen licking my dinner plate which was half submerged in the washing up bowl with bubbles! He was licking the remains of salad cream!

Just when you think you are getting some where :ciappa: :ciappa:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Now you know how I like to share
> 
> Om my goodness Riley has a serious wind issue tonight!! I'm sat with my jumper over my nose it's very stinky!! I'm back to work tomorrow so if I don't get waken up tonight *I'm really not looking forward to my tray deposit when I get home!*
> It's his own fault..I was sat watching tv and thought he was very quiet. I found him in the kitchen licking my dinner plate which was half submerged in the washing up bowl with bubbles! He was licking the remains of salad cream!
> 
> Just when you think you are getting some where :ciappa: :ciappa:


Its windy here too but at least its outside  Hope you don't have too bad a time with your litter tray  we are more civilized here we have a toilet


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its windy here too but at least its outside  Hope you don't have too bad a time with your litter tray  we are more civilized here we have a toilet


Oh my that made me spit my drink out


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh my that made me spit my drink out


:w00t: How dare you treat good alcohol in that way :shocked:


----------



## Guest

Vet UK are brilliant, they sell lots of homeopathic remedies for animals it's brilliant, had a good "rummage" round their online store 

Anyway we ended up getting the curcumin via Amazon as we got guarenteed next day delivery and as we don't know how long we have with Bess we thought we'd start getting it into her sooner rather than later.

I can't say I've noticed any huge effects just yet because she's still recovering from her surgery but it's made us feel a LOT more positive (the meer fact that we're DOING something) has had an enormous impact on our general outlook.

Thanks everyone for your comments, suggestions and support


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the big weigh in is on Wednesday and I don't mind admitting I'm getting quite nervous. Apart from last few days he has eaten well (I'm blaming the heat) his coat and condition are so much better. Plus been very few bad bum issues 

I can't really tell if there will be a weight gain as he still looks skinny to me, especially compared to his cat friend..she is a big girl  so I will have to wait and see!!

I'm just hoping no weight loss anything else will be a bonus!!

not sure who I'm trying to kid with that I really want him to have put on..if I can get him back to 4.45 kg that is a good weight for his shape..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the big weigh in is on Wednesday and I don't mind admitting I'm getting quite nervous.
> ........ I'm just hoping no weight loss anything else will be a bonus!!


All the best for tomorrows big weigh in nicolaa - hope he's gained some 

Kath


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the big weigh in is on Wednesday and I don't mind admitting I'm getting quite nervous. Apart from last few days he has eaten well (I'm blaming the heat) his coat and condition are so much better. Plus been very few bad bum issues
> 
> I can't really tell if there will be a weight gain as he still looks skinny to me, especially compared to his cat friend..she is a big girl  so I will have to wait and see!!
> 
> I'm just hoping no weight loss anything else will be a bonus!!
> 
> not sure who I'm trying to kid with that I really want him to have put on..if I can get him back to 4.45 kg that is a good weight for his shape..


Good luck for tomorrow,paws crossed there is some improvement or at least no further weight drop.It does sound as though his health is better if nothing else so heres hoping for good news


----------



## nicolaa123

Well he lost weight, now 3.9 kg which really should not have happened, it's like his body is fighting food and just not taking the nutrients from it.

Vet asked me loads of questions and its really bizarre how I've just got used to his behaviour and see it as normal, like the sitting haunched up, not a lot of energy, mainly sleeping. I could kick myself for not really "noticing this" also the colour of his poo being very dark again. I'm ashamed to say that it has just become the norm for him and I should have really picked this up as not well. It was only when she was asking me and I was explaining how he has been that it dawned on me that I've been so stupid.

She is worried about the lack of weight gain, also worried that still having diarrhoea, also worried about his behaviour, his dark poo and she is also worried about the two bouts of vomiting.

She is going to speak with the referral vets tomorrow and see what they say. Biopsies can not be done due to the meds he has been on, he would have to be clear of them for a good while. But she agrees with me if we stop the meds, his weight will crash and he will waste away.

He has been tested for everything we can think of, the only things it can be is lymphoma or ibd. She does not suspect lymphoma as no nodes are swollen and nothing seen on the scan. 

We did have a discussion about what happens if we do stop meds and he does crash. I would not see him suffer and as hard as it would be to make that choice, I would do it sooner rather than leave him to just get more and more unwell.

He is getting very stressed now with vet visits. Plus today when I was cleaning him up, he started turning nasty and bit me a few times, which is so unlike him.

I will wait to see what the referral vets say, but to be honest it's not looking great for my poor boy


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Well he lost weight, now 3.9 kg which really should not have happened, it's like his body is fighting food and just not taking the nutrients from it.
> 
> Vet asked me loads of questions and its really bizarre how I've just got used to his behaviour and see it as normal, like the sitting haunched up, not a lot of energy, mainly sleeping. I could kick myself for not really "noticing this" also the colour of his poo being very dark again. I'm ashamed to say that it has just become the norm for him and I should have really picked this up as not well. It was only when she was asking me and I was explaining how he has been that it dawned on me that I've been so stupid.
> 
> She is worried about the lack of weight gain, also worried that still having diarrhoea, also worried about his behaviour, his dark poo and she is also worried about the two bouts of vomiting.
> 
> She is going to speak with the referral vets tomorrow and see what they say. Biopsies can not be done due to the meds he has been on, he would have to be clear of them for a good while. But she agrees with me if we stop the meds, his weight will crash and he will waste away.
> 
> He has been tested for everything we can think of, the only things it can be is lymphoma or ibd. She does not suspect lymphoma as no nodes are swollen and nothing seen on the scan.
> 
> We did have a discussion about what happens if we do stop meds and he does crash. I would not see him suffer and as hard as it would be to make that choice, I would do it sooner rather than leave him to just get more and more unwell.
> 
> He is getting very stressed now with vet visits. Plus today when I was cleaning him up, he started turning nasty and bit me a few times, which is so unlike him.
> 
> I will wait to see what the referral vets say, but to be honest it's not looking great for my poor boy


Oh nicolaa my heart is breaking for you .... I'm so so sorry to hear this 

Firstly please Stop Beating Yourself Up !! You are doing everything possible for Riley ... that is evident to any outsider like myself going off your posts on here.

How big is his weight loss and over how long? What about giving the B12's another go ... I have some instantly dissolving tabs if you'd like me to send you some ... saves the injections and vet visits.

Please know we're thinking of you and crossing everything for some better news ...

Hugs
Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Oh nicolaa my heart is breaking for you .... I'm so so sorry to hear this
> 
> Firstly please Stop Beating Yourself Up !! You are doing everything possible for Riley ... that is evident to any outsider like myself going off your posts on here.
> 
> How big is his weight loss and over how long? What about giving the B12's another go ... I have some instantly dissolving tabs if you'd like me to send you some ... saves the injections and vet visits.
> 
> Please know we're thinking of you and crossing everything for some better news ...
> 
> Hugs
> Kath


Thanks, and thanks for the offer, but Riley is not deficient in b12 and his appetite is fine, most days he eats 250-350 g of food per day. At is heaviest he was well over 5.15 kg last December he was 4.42 kg. I would have to check when we went back, but from memory we went back in January and he was back down to 4 kg. basically the drugs are keeping his weight stable but he can't stay on the drugs indefinite.


----------



## buffie

Nicola I am so sorry to read this,there is nothing I can say or do to help.
Meeko too sits hunched up and I do worry about it,but the next minute he will be off chasing an imaginary fly,so what/why is he hunched up 
It may help to speak to a specialist so a referral just might see something your vet hasn't.
Sending you both all the positive vibes I have and hope you find away to help the gorgeous man xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola I am so sorry to read this,there is nothing I can say or do to help.
> Meeko too sits hunched up and I do worry about it,but the next minute he will be off chasing an imaginary fly,so what/why is he hunched up
> It may help to speak to a specialist so a referral just might see something your vet hasn't.
> Sending you both all the positive vibes I have and hope you find away to help the gorgeous man xx


She should call me tomorrow, Friday by latest. Thing is I know only thing left is the full biopsy and I just know he would not cope with it especially as he would have to away for a week at least, vet says he is bad enough there for the day so he would be worse much worse.

When we stop the meds that's when it will really show I think. I imagine it will be diarrhoea every day again and weight loss and as much as I love him, I would have to let him go, I could not keep him alive just for my own selfish reasons.

I've not given up on him, but I have to start thinking about that day..so sad so sad..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> She should call me tomorrow, Friday by latest. Thing is I know only thing left is the full biopsy and I just know he would not cope with it especially as he would have to away for a week at least, vet says he is bad enough there for the day so he would be worse much worse.
> 
> When we stop the meds that's when it will really show I think. I imagine it will be diarrhoea every day again and weight loss and as much as I love him, I would have to let him go, I could not keep him alive just for my own selfish reasons.
> 
> I've not given up on him, but I have to start thinking about that day..so sad so sad..


I know you would never give up on him nor would you let him suffer,I hope you can find some way to help him xx


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> She should call me tomorrow, Friday by latest. Thing is I know only thing left is the full biopsy and I just know he would not cope with it especially as he would have to away for a week at least, vet says he is bad enough there for the day so he would be worse much worse.
> 
> When we stop the meds that's when it will really show I think. I imagine it will be diarrhoea every day again and weight loss and as much as I love him, I would have to let him go, I could not keep him alive just for my own selfish reasons.
> 
> I've not given up on him, but I have to start thinking about that day..so sad so sad..


Nicolaa, I hear what you're saying about problems with the full biopsy. But, since I'm in a similar position with Sally, I've really had to think long and hard about this.

The big question to my mind is this : 
What would the biopsy achieve? ... 
What would you do any different from what you're already doing IF it were to give you a definitive diagnosis? 
And that too is a BIG "IF" cos even a full biopsy is open to interpretation.

Thinking of you and Riley at this difficult time. 
Hugs

Kath


----------



## Polly G

Hi Nicola

I am so upset for you. I am in a similar position with Jasper. He is having another ultrasound scan tomorrow and the specialist from the Willows will interpret it and advise. My vet thinks he either has a tumour on his pancreas or liver - neither of which is good news. He is on 6 units of insulin twice per day but his diabetes is still not controlled and they say there must be underlying causes. He was 6kg back in February and last week he was only 3.7kg.

Like you, I have had so many sleepless nights, I only want the best for Jasper and am trying not to be selfish.

Trying to stay positive and thinking of you and Riley.

Hugs
Polly


----------



## KathinUK

Nicolaa I didn't sleep well last night thinking about the situation with Riley.

I hope its ok to ask but do you think there might be something in the VC Kangaroo .. other than the main protein source I mean ... that he's reacting to? 
eg Does it have grains or preservatives or anything suspicious ... sometimes you just don't notice the obvious.

Hows he doing today ... have you heard back from the vet yet?

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

Polly G said:


> Hi Nicola
> 
> I am so upset for you. I am in a similar position with Jasper. He is having another ultrasound scan tomorrow and the specialist from the Willows will interpret it and advise. My vet thinks he either has a tumour on his pancreas or liver - neither of which is good news. He is on 6 units of insulin twice per day but his diabetes is still not controlled and they say there must be underlying causes. He was 6kg back in February and last week he was only 3.7kg.
> 
> Like you, I have had so many sleepless nights, I only want the best for Jasper and am trying not to be selfish.
> 
> Trying to stay positive and thinking of you and Riley.
> 
> Hugs
> Polly


Hi Polly, I'm sorry to hear about Jasper loosing so much weight. 
What makes your vet suspect a tumour ... has an ultrasound already pointed to this?

How old is he and long has he been diabetic? Is he on a special diet?

Also sorry to ask so many questions, but I'm not familiar with yourself and Jasper so feel a bit 'in the dark' so to speak.

My SallyCat has lymphoma and some digestive issue so I do understand some of the difficulties with looking after sick kitties.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa I didn't sleep well last night thinking about the situation with Riley.
> 
> I hope its ok to ask but do you think there might be something in the VC Kangaroo .. other than the main protein source I mean ... that he's reacting to?
> eg Does it have grains or preservatives or anything suspicious ... sometimes you just don't notice the obvious.
> 
> Hows he doing today ... have you heard back from the vet yet?
> 
> Kath


I did not sleep well last night. I got to work and they offered me the day off, must have been my red eyes. But I stayed at work as I would have only come home and stared at him all day. At least for some of the day I had to think about something else.

As for food, the vc is limited ingredients, to be honest I'm past thinking its a food issue. He was perfect on it for a long time, near on a month, so if he gets reactions that quickly I would run out of food for him. Plus with the diarrhoea being much much less than on other occasions he should have put on weight. Also he likes this food and eats it like he has not eaten chicken, fish, rabbit, horse, venison, ostrich, plus all the foods he had from young. Whilst he enjoys it and eats it, I'm wary of introducing new foods to upset him further.

Not heard from the vet as yet..no news and all that..



Polly G said:


> Hi Nicola
> 
> I am so upset for you. I am in a similar position with Jasper. He is having another ultrasound scan tomorrow and the specialist from the Willows will interpret it and advise. My vet thinks he either has a tumour on his pancreas or liver - neither of which is good news. He is on 6 units of insulin twice per day but his diabetes is still not controlled and they say there must be underlying causes. He was 6kg back in February and last week he was only 3.7kg.
> 
> Like you, I have had so many sleepless nights, I only want the best for Jasper and am trying not to be selfish.
> 
> Trying to stay positive and thinking of you and Riley.
> 
> Hugs
> Polly


Thanks polly, hope you get some positive news about jasper..these cats really need to just get better!! Positive thoughts coming your way..


----------



## Tao2

Hi everyone, Been offline for a few days and just been catching up on Riley. So sorry the chlorambucil hasn't had the desired effect Nicola. I may have asked this before but has he ever been on appetite stimulants? Vet was planning to put Mittens on Ovarid before her liver problems came to light and scuppered that plan, but as Riley doesn't have liver issues maybe an appetite stimulant might give him the kick up the backside he needs to put some weight back on?

Please let us know what happens with the referral. I totally empathise with what you are saying about missing the signs of increased lethargy etc. because I did exactly the same with Mittens. They are both young cats and the symptoms sneak up so gradually that they just seem to be part of the growing up and calming down process until you look back and realise that there is more to it than that. I reckon all of us who post on here are more observant of their cats symptoms and take them to vets more promptly than the vast majority of cat owners otherwise we wouldn't be on here. :crazy:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi everyone, Been offline for a few days and just been catching up on Riley. So sorry the chlorambucil hasn't had the desired effect Nicola. I may have asked this before but has he ever been on appetite stimulants? Vet was planning to put Mittens on Ovarid before her liver problems came to light and scuppered that plan, but as Riley doesn't have liver issues maybe an appetite stimulant might give him the kick up the backside he needs to put some weight back on?
> 
> Please let us know what happens with the referral. I totally empathise with what you are saying about missing the signs of increased lethargy etc. because I did exactly the same with Mittens. They are both young cats and the symptoms sneak up so gradually that they just seem to be part of the growing up and calming down process until you look back and realise that there is more to it than that. I reckon all of us who post on here are more observant of their cats symptoms and take them to vets more promptly than the vast majority of cat owners otherwise we wouldn't be on here. :crazy:


Hi, how's mittens doing? Hope she is well..he has not been on appetite stimulants apart from when he had a really bad vomiting stage and he had to have an injection. His appetite tho apart from his inappetence days is fine he eats near on double the recommended food amount for his age, just his body seems to reject food, one second he is asking for more dinner....

..so that's 250g of food today and still got supper to go yet  if he was not eating I could understand it, but mostly he eats!

Oh and I'm past crazy...... :crazy: :crazy:


----------



## Tao2

Polly G said:


> Hi Nicola
> 
> I am so upset for you. I am in a similar position with Jasper. He is having another ultrasound scan tomorrow and the specialist from the Willows will interpret it and advise. My vet thinks he either has a tumour on his pancreas or liver - neither of which is good news. He is on 6 units of insulin twice per day but his diabetes is still not controlled and they say there must be underlying causes. He was 6kg back in February and last week he was only 3.7kg.
> 
> Like you, I have had so many sleepless nights, I only want the best for Jasper and am trying not to be selfish.
> 
> Trying to stay positive and thinking of you and Riley.
> 
> Hugs
> Polly


Hi Polly, Please let us know what they say tomorrow. Fingers crossed for Jasper that he has something treatable. That is a big weight loss since Feb. My cat Mittens was diagnosed with a liver tumour in May (she already had suspected IBD and pancreas problems). It was a terrible shock! She is currently doing OK. She has good and bad days but has been maintaining her weight which is good.


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi, how's mittens doing? Hope she is well..he has not been on appetite stimulants apart from when he had a really bad vomiting stage and he had to have an injection. His appetite tho apart from his inappetence days is fine he eats near on double the recommended food amount for his age, just his body seems to reject food, one second he is asking for more dinner....
> 
> ..so that's 250g of food today and still got supper to go yet  if he was not eating I could understand it, but mostly he eats!
> 
> Oh and I'm past crazy...... :crazy: :crazy:


:crazy:I think these cats will drive us all round the twist!!

Mittens is doing OK, she has her off days but mainly good. Even on her off days, she is just very sleepy, doesn't appear to be in any pain. Vet thinks she is doing well. Mittens and my bank account think she is seeing far too much of the vet...

Oh forgot though, she has just had a nightmare dose of dire rear. I thought of you and Riley during the extensive clean up ops!! Just be glad he's not a long hair.....nothing today so fingers crossed.....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> :crazy:I think these cats will drive us all round the twist!!
> 
> Mittens is doing OK, she has her off days but mainly good. Even on her off days, she is just very sleepy, doesn't appear to be in any pain. Vet thinks she is doing well. Mittens and my bank account think she is seeing far too much of the vet...
> 
> Oh forgot though, she has just had a nightmare dose of dire rear. I thought of you and Riley during the extensive clean up ops!! Just be glad he's not a long hair.....nothing today so fingers crossed.....


Every time I look at my curtains I think of you enjoying the story of Riley wiping his bum. I also think of you when I'm cleaning his bum  only in the way you like a poo story  

I'm thinking of getting him one of them bidets :biggrin5: oh it's good to laugh..


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All

I just have to chip in here ... maybe thinking folk need some encouragement. 

Riley, Jasper and Mittens along with Sally seem to be on one heck of a roller coaster of late.

Since Sally's inappetite last week and day in vet hospital on Wednesday, she's only had one little incident of vomitting. That was early Sunday. Since then she's picked up and is doing well on raw turkey and CatzFineFood. 

I did want to try her on a novel protein and in my haste - panic maybe - misinterpreted veal for venison when I ordered CFF ... so we have to do what we can with what we have and monitor closely. 

Just goes to show tho that in the midst of upset and despair things can quickly turn around. Methinx this is all part of solving the mystery of bowel inflammation. 

Wishing us all the best while we struggle with our kitties issues. 
Kath


----------



## buffie

Just back on to check how we are all doing ,we had a power cut  I'm sure I paid the leccy bill 
Meeko seems to still be holding his own,although he has been a bit quieter and sleepy,but then it has been very muggy the past few days.
This is just one of the problems with this **** of a condition knowing what is connected and what isn't


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just back on to check how we are all doing ,we had a power cut  I'm sure I paid the leccy bill
> Meeko seems to still be holding his own,although he has been a bit quieter and sleepy,but then it has been very muggy the past few days.
> This is just one of the problems with this **** of a condition knowing what is connected and what isn't


Do you need a 50p 

I think the weather does affect their moods and eating, we are set for a hot week so imagine appetite will be decreased..

So pleased to hear Meeko............(wont say it).................


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Do you need a 50p
> 
> I think the weather does affect their moods and eating, we are set for a hot week so imagine appetite will be decreased..
> 
> So pleased to hear Meeko............(wont say it).................


I know.......... it always feels like a curse to say it .
Hope you get some news about a referral soon.


----------



## Tao2

:lol::lol::lol:


nicolaa123 said:


> Every time I look at my curtains I think of you enjoying the story of Riley wiping his bum. I also think of you when I'm cleaning his bum  only in the way you like a poo story
> 
> I'm thinking of getting him one of them bidets :biggrin5: oh it's good to laugh..


:lol::lol::lol: It's terrible that we think of each other when we are wiping our cats bums!!! How about in future I think about you and Riley when I'm skipping through fields of daisies in the sunshine instead? Unfortunately, I don't do a tremendous amount of that now I come to think about it....if you're looking for frequency of thoughts, then definitely stick with the bum wiping. How about if I think about you and Riley gambolling through fields of daisies in the sunshine whilst I'm doing the dreaded task....that will take my mind off the horror of it too:biggrin5:

Just so you don't feel left out Buffie, I think about you and Meeko whenever I'm cleaning up vomit.....


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> :lol::lol::lol: It's terrible that we think of each other when we are wiping our cats bums!!! How about in future I think about you and Riley when I'm skipping through fields of daisies in the sunshine instead? Unfortunately, I don't do a tremendous amount of that now I come to think about it....if you're looking for frequency of thoughts, then definitely stick with the bum wiping. How about if I think about you and Riley gambolling through fields of daisies in the sunshine whilst I'm doing the dreaded task....that will take my mind off the horror of it too:biggrin5:
> 
> *Just so you don't feel left out Buffie, I think about you and Meeko whenever I'm cleaning up vomit.....:eek*:


:lol: Yayyy fame at last  
I know it isn't really funny but I'm sure you will agree if we didn't laugh we'd stick our heads in a gas oven...............no wait that doesn't work ,does it


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh no..I only have an electric oven!! Would the toaster do :crazy:

You two are :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :biggrin5:


----------



## nicolaa123

Just quick update, vet is still waiting on answer from referral vets, so looks like wont hear anything until next week, Tuesday as she is not in work Monday. I thought I would be upset at no news, but to be honest think I need the extra time to get my head back in order..




........and out the toaster :biggrin5:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Just quick update, vet is still waiting on answer from referral vets, so looks like wont hear anything until next week, Tuesday as she is not in work Monday. I thought I would be upset at no news, but to be honest think I need the extra time to get my head back in order..
> 
> ........*and out the toaster :biggrin5*:


^^^^
You muppet :crazy: :biggrin5:

Seriously I think in many ways it is better not to have to dwell on this any more than necessary ,so having "no news" to mull over for 3 days is probably a good thing.
How are the gorgeous Riley and his slave tonight


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> ^^^^
> You muppet :crazy: :biggrin5:
> 
> Seriously I think in many ways it is better not to have to dwell on this any more than necessary ,so having "no news" to mull over for 3 days is probably a good thing.
> How are the gorgeous Riley and his slave tonight


You are right, at least I can pretend for next few days all is ok!

Riley is good, he has popped out for a bit and is sat on the shed roof chilling :001_smile: will call him in soon for his 2nd dinner 

Me, I'm watching the tennis (waiting for eastenders) alls good..

..hope Meeko is .................


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You are right, at least I can pretend for next few days all is ok!
> 
> Riley is good, he has popped out for a bit and is sat on the shed roof chilling :001_smile: will call him in soon for his 2nd dinner
> 
> Me, I'm watching the tennis (waiting for eastenders) alls good..
> 
> ..hope Meeko is .................


 Meeko seems ............ 
I'm watching the tennis too..........from behind the couch  .I am not a tennis fan but I have to support a fellow Scot  he is making it difficult to watch though ,the quarter final was bad enough


----------



## nicolaa123

It is quite nail biting!!

Whilst you are behind the couch is "mousy" there!?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It is quite nail biting!!
> 
> Whilst you are behind the couch is "mousy" there!?


I'll have some of what you've been drinking   . 
No mousey :frown2: an orange "Boinkey" has taken over top spot now.He still loves them ,he carries them around the house,drops them through his barrel then goes head first down after them,he will get stuck one day 
I am going to need some strong stuff "intra-venous" preferred , for Sunday's final


----------



## Polly G

Jasper update

Jasper had his second ultrasound yesterday and we had some good news for a change! There are no tumours identifiable in his pancreas or liver, the scan confirmed his IBD and his cardiomyothapy is mild. He had gained a little weight - just over 4kg now.

There is still concern as something is preventing his insulin from working properly and he had more blood tests done, results should be back on Monday.

Only last week the emergency vet suggested we had him pts - thank heavens we didn't listen. Jasper is a little fighter and as long as he battles on then so will we.

Hope you get some better news soon Nicolaa.


----------



## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> Jasper update
> 
> Jasper had his second ultrasound yesterday and we had some good news for a change! There are no tumours identifiable in his pancreas or liver, the scan confirmed his IBD and his cardiomyothapy is mild. He had gained a little weight - just over 4kg now.
> 
> There is still concern as something is preventing his insulin from working properly and he had more blood tests done, results should be back on Monday.
> 
> Only last week the emergency vet suggested we had him pts - thank heavens we didn't listen. Jasper is a little fighter and as long as he battles on then so will we.
> 
> Hope you get some better news soon Nicolaa.


Pleased you had some good news.. I was talking to some one today and there cat had diabetes and also a tumour. He was saying that due to the tumour the cat did not need his injections anymore as the tumour was controlling the diabetes..

Pleased to hear jasper has put on some weight..


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok this is mainly for my own records (memory like a goldfish)..

So come home from work, all is ok, riley has eaten all his food. I am babysitting tonight, so leave him nice meal. Come home, all is ok, he needs a poo I can tell as his bottom is bulging . So I say to him have a poo. He goes to tray, miows like he does then has a wee, I clean it. Then ten minutes later he goes back and has a poo. A good poo nice firm, not overly soft not overly hard. 

But then he scoots across the carpet dragging his bum. I pick him up and his bum still bulging all red and sore. I get some tissue with cool water and pat his bum, small bit of blood, his bum still bulging. It's kind of poking out.

So am thinking when he has a poo something is irritating him to rub his bum which ends up on his tail, I have thought this before, but only realy has happened when he has gone outside, not really done it going inside, which is odd. So if he had gone outside would I have been cleaning his tail?

One vet (did not get on with this one) did say as he is not digesting the food, his poo is like when we eat a vindaloo.. burns on the way out :devil: so would explain the scooting..

So what I'm getting at, which is what I need to remember..he does have diarrhoea that I have witnessed when he uses the tray..however when he goes outside and I need to clean him up, was it diarrhoea or was it him rubbing his tail in it (I have thought this before) which points to a definite issue with weight loss to not diarrhoea and food but his inability to digest food..so I need to maybe look more at this..

My poor boy


----------



## nicolaa123

So he has been ok last couple days, had a tray deposit to come home too, but it's always difficult to tell the consistency when it's not fresh (I need to get a life ) but seemed ok. His bum however is still looking sore, maybe I need to ease up on the pumpkin? Maybe that's irritating his polyp? Or could it be the polyp is growing? 

I will ask the vet, but my fear is he will not let her look at his bum, last time his tail was firmly over his bum! I don't really want to have to take him in if I can help it..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the vet referral is booked for next Wednesday. Over the next week going to put some notes together and questions for the vet. I'm still not convinced that re-testing him is the way forward but we will see. I am very interested in what they suggest to treat ibd.

Riley has been haunched bit more, he is back to one chlorambucil a week now, wonder if that is why?

Hope everyone else's ibd'ers are doing well..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the vet referral is booked for next Wednesday. Over the next week going to put some notes together and questions for the vet. I'm still not convinced that re-testing him is the way forward but we will see. I am very interested in what they suggest to treat ibd.
> Riley has been haunched bit more....


Nicolaa will they re-examine all the scans and test results before deciding if they want to re-test any of these? 
Also I wonder if Riley has had the pancreatic blood test cos haunching certainly suggests pain and pancreatitis can be very painful.
Mind you as he's eating still, this does seem rather contradictory.



> Hope everyone else's ibd'ers are doing well..


Sally's had almost 2 consecutive good weeks now - thanx for asking.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Well done Sally, long may it continue :thumbsup:

I guess I will find out Wednesday we have a 45 minute consultation booked so will discuss everything then. I will get a copy of Riley's notes before I go, they will also have a copy and we will talk..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the vet referral is booked for next Wednesday. Over the next week going to put some notes together and questions for the vet. I'm still not convinced that re-testing him is the way forward but we will see. I am very interested in what they suggest to treat ibd.
> 
> Riley has been haunched bit more, he is back to one chlorambucil a week now, wonder if that is why?
> 
> Hope everyone else's ibd'ers are doing well..


I think you are doing the right thing in going for the referral.
There may be nothing more that they can suggest but someone who is a specialist in their field just may see something your vet has missed/not done.
Going armed with a written list of questions ect is an excellent idea,hopefully they can sort Riley out or at least help him to maintain his weight .
Meeko sits hunched up at times but he can snap out of it and be off playing the next minute.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think you are doing the right thing in going for the referral.
> There may be nothing more that they can suggest but someone who is a specialist in their field just may see something your vet has missed/not done.
> Going armed with a written list of questions ect is an excellent idea,hopefully they can sort Riley out or at least help him to maintain his weight .
> Meeko sits hunched up at times but he can snap out of it and be off playing the next minute.


I got the referral vet place mixed up, we are going to Davies which is actually a lot closer to me... This is who we are seeing Meet Davies' Veterinary Specialists


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I got the referral vet place mixed up, we are going to Davies which is actually a lot closer to me... This is who we are seeing Meet Davies' Veterinary Specialists


Paws crossed she can help sort Riley out.xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Paws crossed she can help sort Riley out.xx


She has lots of letters after her name and has specialised in internal medicine, so she is well educated enough :eek6:

He has to be starved from midnight Tuesday incase of admission..I'm arranging a direct claim for the fee, had to give my permission for the vets to be able to talk to my insurance company, spoke to the insurance company a really lovely lady, who said whenever I call just ask for her, really was a great customer experience from sainsburys I must say :thumbsup:

Got a lift sorted to take us, so all set..

..yeah I'm panicking


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> She has lots of letters after her name and has specialised in internal medicine, so she is well educated enough :eek6:
> 
> He has to be starved from midnight Tuesday incase of admission..I'm arranging a direct claim for the fee, had to give my permission for the vets to be able to talk to my insurance company, spoke to the insurance company a really lovely lady, who said whenever I call just ask for her, really was a great customer experience from sainsburys I must say :thumbsup:
> 
> Got a lift sorted to take us, so all set..
> 
> ..yeah I'm panicking


I will be thinking of you both and keeping everything crossed that you get to the bottom(  ) of Riley's problems.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I will be thinking of you both and keeping everything crossed that you get to the bottom(  ) of Riley's problems.


I hope so I really hope so..


----------



## KathinUK

Hi nicolaa, just another thought. You've probably checked the calorific value of Riley's kangaroo .. but it occured to me that he might not be actually getting as many calories as you think.


Sorry if you've already been there .. I just keep thinking about you and wondering what might be the cause of this issue.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

He is eating the recommended amount for a cat weighing 8 kg


----------



## nicolaa123

Good news!! Had a call from Davies saying they are happy to accept a direct claim. I have to pay £80 on the day, but will get the £50 back as its the excess I've already paid  

Need to plan the route and put into sat-nav, decide what to put in his overnight bag (hopefully wont need) although I was reading on the site you should not take toys or blankets in with them..again 

I spoke to my neighbour earlier, was telling her how he was still poorly going to the vets, she said he has been coming into their house. I did ask if he had been helping himself to food, she said she has not seen him eat, he is more interested in trying to play with Sam (her cat)..makes me wonder, I said to her kick him out if he comes in and that he is on special food..I imagine tho he goes in to try and "play" with sam as Riley is quite sociable..

At the moment I'm getting evils as its flea treating time..:nono: :nono: :cryin: :cryin:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news!! Had a call from Davies saying they are happy to accept a direct claim. *I have to pay £80 on the day, but will get the £50 back as its the excess I've already paid *
> 
> Need to plan the route and put into sat-nav, decide what to put in his overnight bag (hopefully wont need) although I was reading on the site you should not take toys or blankets in with them..again
> 
> I spoke to my neighbour earlier, was telling her how he was still poorly going to the vets, she said he has been coming into their house. I did ask if he had been helping himself to food, she said she has not seen him eat, he is more interested in trying to play with Sam (her cat)..makes me wonder, I said to her kick him out if he comes in and that he is on special food..I imagine tho he goes in to try and "play" with sam as Riley is quite sociable..
> 
> At the moment I'm getting evils as its flea treating time..:nono: :nono: :cryin: :cryin:


Am I thick (don't answer) why do you pay £80 and only get £50 back if you have already paid the excess,am I missing something .
What a sneaky little man going visiting  Is your neighbour the kind to "withhold the truth" about whether or not Riley was dining out


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Am I thick (don't answer) why do you pay £80 and only get £50 back if you have already paid the excess,am I missing something .
> What a sneaky little man going visiting  Is your neighbour the kind to "withhold the truth" about whether or not Riley was dining out


Ah sorry the £30 is an admin fee to fill out the form :w00t: still depending on what they say and what we may do..it's better than trying to find x amount of £££££££££!

No I think she would tell me if he had eaten, she knows he has had tummy issues. I did ask her a couple of times if he had eaten! I guess if he had she will hopefully stop him now, considering I told her he is having the vet trip.

When his cat friend comes in the house, first thing I do is take any food up, bless her tho she is huge in comparison to Riley!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah sorry the £30 is an admin fee to fill out the form :w00t: still depending on what they say and what we may do..it's better than trying to find x amount of £££££££££!
> 
> No I think she would tell me if he had eaten, she knows he has had tummy issues. I did ask her a couple of times if he had eaten! I guess if he had she will hopefully stop him now, considering I told her he is having the vet trip.
> 
> When his cat friend comes in the house, first thing I do is take any food up, bless her tho she is huge in comparison to Riley!


Ah I see ,but still that is a large admin fee :w00t: still as you say it is better than having to pay out what could be a fairly substantial amount of money


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Ah I see ,but still that is a large admin fee :w00t: still as you say it is better than having to pay out what could be a fairly substantial amount of money


Yeah it's scarey how much things can cost, thank goodness for insurance. Don't get me wrong if I had to I would find the money some how, but not having to consider the money side means 100% of thinking goes to Riley.

Strangely I'm looking forward to making all my notes about his history and condition.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah it's scarey how much things can cost, thank goodness for insurance. Don't get me wrong if I had to I would find the money some how, but not having to consider the money side means 100% of thinking goes to Riley.
> 
> Strangely I'm looking forward to making all my notes about his history and condition.


Meeko is the first animal (apart from daughters horse) we have ever had insurance for.
I wouldn't ever not have pets insured in the future,Puss (departed) would have cost me a hell of a lot more had I not been working with a vet for the first 5 years of her being diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes ,you just never know what is round the corner.


----------



## nicolaa123

Flipping typical..Riley has been really much better today, we had a play this morning, tray deposit was good, nice colour, not runny..he does not seem in pain at all..

I am happy dont get me wrong, but how typical he starts to feel better days before we see the vet


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Flipping typical..Riley has been really much better today, we had a play this morning, tray deposit was good, nice colour, not runny..he does not seem in pain at all..
> 
> I am happy dont get me wrong, but how typical he starts to feel better days before we see the vet


This just seems to be "typical" of IBD they can be up one minute and down the next, glad he is feeling better though.
I know you said your neighbour wouldn't feed Riley but could he maybe have helped himself without her noticing and since you mentioned the strict diet she is now being more careful.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> This just seems to be "typical" of IBD they can be up one minute and down the next, glad he is feeling better though.
> I know you said your neighbour wouldn't feed Riley but could he maybe have helped himself without her noticing and since you mentioned the strict diet she is now being more careful.


I did think that myself..but I doubt he would have helped himself enough to cause the weight loss..but you just know that on Wednesday he will probably put on, which will be fantastic, but won't help us in the long run of things, if that makes sense!?


----------



## Laurac

Could anyone help Riley (and you) out with the Ropocat?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I did think that myself..but I doubt he would have helped himself enough to cause the weight loss..but you just know that on Wednesday he will probably put on, which will be fantastic, but won't help us in the long run of things, if that makes sense!?


No you are probably right, but in this weird world of IBD anything is possible  If he has put on weight don't question why just be grateful  It would at least prove he can


----------



## nicolaa123

Laurac said:


> Could anyone help Riley (and you) out with the Ropocat?


No replies so far..I did ask the company if I could try single tins, but could not do it as delivery etc..I may just order a tin and stand the delivery cost to see if he likes it and is ok with it, he has had venison before a semi safe food..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> No you are probably right, but in this weird world of IBD anything is possible  If he has put on weight don't question why just be grateful  It would at least prove he can


Oh definitely!! It's really great to see him more active, though at silly o'clock in the morning waking me up to say "hi" not so fun but did make me smile! I am really looking forward to the consult, a chance to pick her brains and experience in treating this.

I was telling one of my customers at work about him, she said she will come in Thursday to see how he got on..thought that was so lovely of her. An old dear customer always asks me how my pussy is  reminds me of "are you being served"


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh definitely!! It's really great to see him more active, though at silly o'clock in the morning waking me up to say "hi" not so fun but did make me smile! I am really looking forward to the consult, a chance to pick her brains and experience in treating this.
> 
> I was telling one of my customers at work about him, she said she will come in Thursday to see how he got on..thought that was so lovely of her*. An old dear customer always asks me how my pussy is * reminds me of "are you being served"


I remember saying to a work colleague that Bumble the feral slept in a polystyrene box in the shed,and she told everyone I kept my "pussy" in a polystyrene box :w00t: :lol::lol:
So good to see you more positive  Even if the referral consultation doesn't go any further than the consultation I'm sure you and Riley will benefit from it,even if it is only that you just may understand it a bit more(then you can tell me  )


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I remember saying to a work colleague that Bumble the feral slept in a polystyrene box in the shed,and she told everyone I kept my "pussy" in a polystyrene box :w00t: :lol::lol:
> So good to see you more positive  Even if the referral consultation doesn't go any further than the consultation I'm sure you and Riley will benefit from it,even if it is only that you just may understand it a bit more(then you can tell me  )


It's been the change in him, makes me feel he is fighting again, which makes me more positive. Whilst he fights I can..as I know he is not suffering!

Pussy in a box..classic 

Oh and on my list of questions, I've already got about vomiting ibd..and why is it different to the other end


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It's been the change in him, makes me feel he is fighting again, which makes me more positive. Whilst he fights I can..as I know he is not suffering!
> 
> Pussy in a box..classic
> 
> Oh and on my list of questions, I've already got about vomiting ibd..and why is it different to the other end


I will be interested to hear another opinion on that,as far as I can make out it is because it affects the upper digestive tract rather than the lower tract, and it does seem that Famotidine is stopping the vomiting,not necessarily the nauseous feeling though as he does still lip lick.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I will be interested to hear another opinion on that,as far as I can make out it is because it affects the upper digestive tract rather than the lower tract, and it does seem that Famotidine is stopping the vomiting,not necessarily the nauseous feeling though as he does still lip lick.


I'm sure I can put it in the conversation.. I will say I know some one who has vomiting symptoms of ibd, why is it some have vomiting and some have runny bums!

The lip lick is horrible, when Riley had the time he was being sick and nearly had an over night stay at the vets, he was doing that. It's almost like there was something stuck in his mouth.

He was ok again this morning, we played on his scratching post before work and after work when I came home.


----------



## KathinUK

Hi All, 
Its been quiet on here lately - just wonder how the cancer kitties are doing? 
Sally has/had gone over 2 weeks without upset tummy and feels like she's putting weight on again. She's also been 'happier' in herself lately, especially since Da Bird landed the other day - its turned this teenager into a temporary kitten-kat 

I tried her with curcumin again the other day BUT ... she did vomit a furball a little later with bright yellow fluid tho was fine again after. So I don't call this a vomit/upset tummy episode and will try it again soon. 

Since she's eating so very well, I'm reluctant to do anything that leads to inappetite episodes again. The last one was scary tho the vets were really good with her.


This leads me to a comment on a current PF thread about Nutriment - the new raw catfood. Sorry I don't know how to link the thread.

But someone, who has a kitty with a liver tumour, said she visited the shop and spoke with staff the other day. She continues"_*They explained stories of how tumor growth had been substantially slowed with a raw diet .....*_



Kath


----------



## Elizabeth and Bertie

Hi Kath,

I'm SO pleased that Sally is feeling better, _and_ that she seems to have put on a bit of weight. The weight gain at this time of year (and given the hot weather) is remarkable.

That's an interesting comment about raw food diet possibly slowing tumour growth. I wish I could get Jim Bob to eat raw food but he is the only one of my 5 cats that won't touch the stuff (that is, unless I give it a hefty sprinkling of crushed Thrive cat treats....)

Jim Bob is currently out in the garden in the sunshine. He's rolling about in the grass and playing with his tail - something I've not seen him do for a very long time! In these moments he is obviously blissfully happy! I tell myself, "THIS is why we went though with the amputation of his leg 3 months ago...." You may remember, at that time our choices were either amputation or PTS... Just watching him play has brought tears to my eyes...

I am aware though that the oncologist said he might have six months after the amputation, and we are half way through that time...

He's taking his curcumin really well (touch wood/ anti-jinx) and I sincerely hope that either gives him more time or gives him a better quality of life in the time that he has.

Have taken some photos of him in the garden today and hope to post some soon. 

Big hugs to all folks with cancer-kitties!!! May the cancer shrivel to nothing, and may the cats be happy and healthy for as long as the universe will allow!

Eliz x


----------



## KathinUK

Elizabeth and Bertie said:


> Hi Kath,
> 
> That's an interesting comment about raw food diet possibly slowing tumour growth. I wish I could get Jim Bob to eat raw food but he is the only one of my 5 cats that won't touch the stuff (that is, unless I give it a hefty sprinkling of crushed Thrive cat treats....)


Thats a great pity Eliz, but I think if you feed him a low or carb free quality food he will benefit enormously. 
I've emailed Nutriment re their comment as I'm inclined to think its simply the carb free that is vital not the cooked or raw aspect. Should they reply then I'll re-post here. 



> Jim Bob is currently out in the garden in the sunshine. He's rolling about in the grass and playing with his tail - something I've not seen him do for a very long time! In these moments he is obviously blissfully happy! I tell myself, "THIS is why we went though with the amputation of his leg 3 months ago...." You may remember, at that time our choices were either amputation or PTS... Just watching him play has brought tears to my eyes...
> Have taken some photos of him in the garden today and hope to post some soon.


That is soooo good to hear  I can imagine just how you must feel. And you really don't know about the validity of the oncologists prognosis. They can only go off past records and there's always exceptions to rules. Lets hope JB proves to be one of those. 
Looking forward to seeing the piccies then 



> Big hugs to all folks with cancer-kitties!!! May the cancer shrivel to nothing, and may the cats be happy and healthy for as long as the universe will allow!
> 
> Eliz x


Ditto

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok here are my list of questions so far..there may seem a lot, but as its £250 (thank goodness for insurance) for the consultation I want to be fully prepared and not come away thinking, if only I asked that..

Any thoughts or anything you can add?? 

Riley

1. What test would you propose to do
2. Do you think that you will find anything different that my vet has not already found?
3. What is the difference with you doing the tests and my vet having done the tests?
4. What is the after care like if he has the tests as he gets very stressed staying away from home at a vets and the last visit they could not get him to eat or use the toilet.
5. If he does stay in can I visit?
6. With the tests are we just likely to confirm IBD or do you think it could be something else?
7. What are the benefits of you doing more testing?
8. If you do confirm its IBD what are the treatment options, considering that he has not responded to all the "normal" treatment options so far.
9. If IBD why does he have diarrhoea symptoms and not vomiting?
10. He eats 250-350g per day, why is he loosing weight?
11. If we do not manage his symptoms where cold this lead (as read could lead to cancer)
12. Does his anal polyp cause any concern.
13. Does his hunching up and sitting awkward cause concern.
14. What success have you had treating cats with IBD before and what was the treatment.
15. As he can only tolerate certain foods and does not see "raw" as food, can you suggest any other foods that we can try?
16. Are there any supplements I can add to his food?
17.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok here are my list of questions so far..there may seem a lot, but as its £250 (thank goodness for insurance) for the consultation I want to be fully prepared and not come away thinking, if only I asked that..
> 
> Any thoughts or anything you can add??
> 
> Riley
> 
> 1. What test would you propose to do
> 2. Do you think that you will find anything different that my vet has not already found?
> 3. What is the difference with you doing the tests and my vet having done the tests?
> 4. What is the after care like if he has the tests as he gets very stressed staying away from home at a vets and the last visit they could not get him to eat or use the toilet.
> 5. If he does stay in can I visit?
> 6. With the tests are we just likely to confirm IBD or do you think it could be something else?
> 7. What are the benefits of you doing more testing?
> 8. If you do confirm its IBD what are the treatment options, considering that he has not responded to all the "normal" treatment options so far.
> 9. If IBD why does he have diarrhoea symptoms and not vomiting?
> 10. He eats 250-350g per day, why is he loosing weight?
> 11. If we do not manage his symptoms where cold this lead (as read could lead to cancer)
> 12. Does his anal polyp cause any concern.
> 13. Does his hunching up and sitting awkward cause concern.
> 14. What success have you had treating cats with IBD before and what was the treatment.
> 15. As he can only tolerate certain foods and does not see "raw" as food, can you suggest any other foods that we can try?
> 16. Are there any supplements I can add to his food?
> 17.


Looks like a pretty comprehensive list to me , cant think of much else that you could ask , but even if you have missed something I would imagine the consultant will have a list of questions for you which will trigger any other questions that you may have missed.
Good luck,I would imagine you are very apprehensive about Wednesday but also glad of the chance to find out if there is anything else that they can offer either in treatment or information on what exactly is going on.


----------



## KathinUK

Hi, Just a quick comment nicolaa on your list of questions.

How could you re-word some of the 'closed' questions - ie the ones requiring simple yes or no answers and replace them with 'open' questions - ie. those that may lead to a more comprehensive response/discussion?

eg - If he does stay in can I visit? Perhaps more like 
If he does stay in *when *will I be able to visit and for *how long *

Hope this sounds ok and that the consult goes well.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Looks like a pretty comprehensive list to me , cant think of much else that you could ask , but even if you have missed something I would imagine the consultant will have a list of questions for you which will trigger any other questions that you may have missed.
> Good luck,I would imagine you are very apprehensive about Wednesday but also glad of the chance to find out if there is anything else that they can offer either in treatment or information on what exactly is going on.


I am getting nervous now. I cleaned his carrier last night, he was in the garden so did not see! I've got some new tuperware for food incase he stays in and got some more pumpkin. Going to print off a map tonight so will have directions and also put it into phone sat nav.

Got my note book ready and a pen..of course im sure I've forgotton something!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am getting nervous now. I cleaned his carrier last night, he was in the garden so did not see! I've got some new tuperware for food incase he stays in and got some more pumpkin. Going to print off a map tonight so will have directions and also put it into phone sat nav.
> 
> Got my note book ready and a pen..of course *im sure I've forgotton something!!*


Since you are not driving ...." a bottle of something very strong"  Good luck


----------



## Polly G

Hi Nicolaa

Hope things go well for you and Riley tomorrow and that you get answers to your questions. Will wait for your update :


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Since you are not driving ...." a bottle of something very strong"  Good luck


morning appointment so be a bit early.. Also need to give riley a good groom this evening, so he is looking all smart and to cut down on the mass moulting that will happen as soon as he goes in the carrier..

Sorry about typing am on my phone.


----------



## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> Hi Nicolaa
> 
> Hope things go well for you and Riley tomorrow and that you get answers to your questions. Will wait for your update :


thanks Polly..will let you know..



KathinUK said:


> Hi, Just a quick comment nicolaa on your list of questions.
> 
> How could you re-word some of the 'closed' questions - ie the ones requiring simple yes or no answers and replace them with 'open' questions - ie. those that may lead to a more comprehensive response/discussion?
> 
> eg - If he does stay in can I visit? Perhaps more like
> If he does stay in *when *will I be able to visit and for *how long *
> 
> Hope this sounds ok and that the consult goes well.
> 
> Kath


I agree but I am also a straight talking person and like yes and no answers to some questions..its also hard as I don't know her so won't have the same relationship like I do with my own vet..


----------



## Tao2

Nicola, Good luck to you and Mr Stripy tomorrow. Please keep us posted (I know you will....)


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola, Good luck to you and Mr Stripy tomorrow. Please keep us posted (I know you will....)


Thanks, I'm really feeling it now, all worse case scenarios going through my head, main one, what if he runs under the bed so can't get him out..have to get the timing of closing the bedroom door right! Too early and it's stress, leave to late and he will be firmly under the bed, still working that one out ut:

My tummy is a bit funny :blushing: :blushing:


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks, I'm really feeling it now, all worse case scenarios going through my head, main one, what if he runs under the bed so can't get him out..have to get the timing of closing the bedroom door right! Too early and it's stress, leave to late and he will be firmly under the bed, still working that one out ut:
> 
> My tummy is a bit funny :blushing: :blushing:


Carrier Feliway-ed?


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Carrier Feliway-ed?


Damn it!! I knew there was something else I was meant to get 

Too late now, to be fair once he is in the car he calms down and has not cried last few times in the car..it's just when he realises he is going he stresses and when he is on the vets table..as soon as she lets go of him he jumps back into the carrier..

I knew there was something else!!


----------



## buffie

Just dropped in to wish you and Riley all the best for tomorrow,paws crossed it all goes well  xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just dropped in to wish you and Riley all the best for tomorrow,paws crossed it all goes well  xx


Thank you..im feeding him until midnight then he can have no more, just incase 

I have had so much bad luck today, from stubbing my toe, having bad day at work, forgetting to print a form and then having to walk the mile back to my friends house to print it! Worse was forgetting I had put a bottle of wine in the freezer to cool.........yup it was a wine icicle!!

So all bad luck out the way can only be good tomorrow..


----------



## nicolaa123

I've done a thread with the main parts, but feel on this thread I can go into more detail.

Basically he will have a scan and endeoscopy that will go further in, she wants to look at the polyp and may even remove it if they can. She wants to do some enema and also some flushing (all under a ga) she is going to test his bloods and his white cell count and also check his bone marrow. Basically rule out any cancers.

If they are ruled out then its refractory ibd (severe) and we may never control it and likely to turn to a cancer of some sorts as is the polyp. Food wise stay as we are I can try new foods with him, but not really much point as diet is not controlling the symptoms. I said I was going to try venison again and she said fine.

She mentioned the full biopsy and I said no, she crossed that off as an option, she understood that he would not be able to cope.

Riley was so good, hardly a cry in the car. I gave him some water whilst we was waiting in the reception area. He let her examine him, not a hiss or atempt at biting. Even when she took his temperature he was ok. They will do more examination when he is under the ga, which I think is wise.

Weight wise 3.95 kg so little bit up, but could be difference in their scales. Condition wise she scored him a 2 out of 4 so not great but could have been worse, she could feel his ribs and spine..

So now I'm waiting until tomorrow to hear results..

Have I done right thing? I really don't know. I could not say goodbye to him as I got a bit tearful, so just asked him to be good..


----------



## KathinUK

Thanx for letting up know nicola, I've been thinking of you and wondering how you got on.

Hope all goes well ... how long will Riley be staying away then?

Kath


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I've done a thread with the main parts, but feel on this thread I can go into more detail.
> 
> Basically he will have a scan and endeoscopy that will go further in, she wants to look at the polyp and may even remove it if they can. She wants to do some enema and also some flushing (all under a ga) she is going to test his bloods and his white cell count and also check his bone marrow. Basically rule out any cancers.
> 
> If they are ruled out then its refractory ibd (severe) and we may never control it and likely to turn to a cancer of some sorts as is the polyp. Food wise stay as we are I can try new foods with him, but not really much point as diet is not controlling the symptoms. I said I was going to try venison again and she said fine.
> 
> She mentioned the full biopsy and I said no, she crossed that off as an option, she understood that he would not be able to cope.
> 
> Riley was so good, hardly a cry in the car. I gave him some water whilst we was waiting in the reception area. He let her examine him, not a hiss or atempt at biting. Even when she took his temperature he was ok. They will do more examination when he is under the ga, which I think is wise.
> 
> Weight wise 3.95 kg so little bit up, but could be difference in their scales. Condition wise she scored him a 2 out of 4 so not great but could have been worse, she could feel his ribs and spine..
> 
> So now I'm waiting until tomorrow to hear results..
> 
> Have I done right thing? I really don't know. I could not say goodbye to him as I got a bit tearful, so just asked him to be good..


Sorry Nicola I just answered your other thread didn't see this one 
I think you have done the right thing ,you really didn't have a lot of choice Riley was losing weight ,that couldn't continue.
Maybe they will find something that has been missed as they do have much more sophisticated equipment ,sending lots of positive vibes to you both,take care xx


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Thanx for letting up know nicola, I've been thinking of you and wondering how you got on.
> 
> Hope all goes well ... how long will Riley be staying away then?
> 
> Kath


One night, all being well picking him up tomorrow..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry Nicola I just answered your other thread didn't see this one
> I think you have done the right thing ,you really didn't have a lot of choice Riley was losing weight ,that couldn't continue.
> Maybe they will find something that has been missed as they do have much more sophisticated equipment ,sending lots of positive vibes to you both,take care xx


That's ok, wanted the more treatment/symptoms etc on the thread as it may help others in the future with their cats.


----------



## Polly G

I really feel for you Nicolaa, I have had to leave Jasper so many times in the last few months and it doesn't get any easier. I really hope they can find some answers for you to help your beautiful boy, Riley.

Hang on in there - Morgan and Jasper are keeping their paws crossed too!

Big hug coming your way x


----------



## nicolaa123

Just thought would update this with the other thread links 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/315052-vet-referral-experience-thoughts.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/316176-rileys-referral.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/317094-rileys-results.html

Just to keep it all in one place..


----------



## Tao2

Hi Angela, Wow, that's brilliant news about Doris! I do remember reading about her before, is great that you have sorted out her problems esp. after getting so close to having her PTS. We've been much in need of a success story on here at the moment!


----------



## nicolaa123

So happy to read the good news!! So happy you have found something that works for her


----------



## AngelaWB

to anyone else struggling, I'd definitely give digestor a go. I just can't believe the difference and without any intrusive treatment too


----------



## AngelaWB

tried to upload a photo of Doris taken this week, but not sure I've done it properly!


----------



## KathinUK

AngelaWB said:


> to anyone else struggling, I'd definitely give it a go. I just can't believe the difference and without any intrusive treatment too


Hi Angela Its good to hear how well Doris is doing now - and thanx for sharing.

However I must express my concerns that firstly feeding a complementary food is storing up real trouble. As you probably know the diet has to be cal/phos balanced to produce a healthy animal.

Not sure why you'd want to get her back on dry stuff which is really really bad for cats
- there are numerous threads on here explaining exactly why.

Since she's doing well on the Porta Sensitive then why not try adding Felini Complete to it so keeping her on a wet food which could be balanced. 

Sorry to say this but there is also an issue with the 8% grain in the food which really has no place in a feline diet. It puts stress on the entire digestive system as cats are not designed to eat grains.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Hi Angela Its good to hear how well Doris is doing now - and thanx for sharing.
> 
> However I must express my concerns that firstly feeding a complementary food is storing up real trouble. As you probably know the diet has to be cal/phos balanced to produce a healthy animal.
> 
> Not sure why you'd want to get her back on dry stuff which is really really bad for cats
> - there are numerous threads on here explaining exactly why.
> 
> Since she's doing well on the Porta Sensitive then why not try adding Felini Complete to it so keeping her on a wet food which could be balanced.
> 
> Sorry to say this but there is also an issue with the 8% grain in the food which really has no place in a feline diet. It puts stress on the entire digestive system as cats are not designed to eat grains.
> 
> Kath


Kath, whilst i understand what your are saying, but this cat was at the stage where only putting to sleep was the only option. Having complementary food for a while will not harm and from what I read, she is now on the biscuits that are complete and whilst no any dry food is not ideal especially when there is diarreah at least Doris has another chance now.

Diet changes can be considered in the future but I would imagine that getting some weight back on with a food that does not cause issues is the first steps..


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> tried to upload a photo of Doris taken this week, but not sure I've done it properly!


Can't see a photo  try clicking the paper clip to attach a photo or you can click the world icon and upload from photo bucket or the like..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Kath, whilst i understand what your are saying, but this cat was at the stage where only putting to sleep was the only option. Having complementary food for a while will not harm and from what I read, she is now on the biscuits that are complete and whilst no any dry food is not ideal especially when there is diarreah at least Doris has another chance now.
> 
> Diet changes can be considered in the future but I would imagine that getting some weight back on with a food that does not cause issues is the first steps..


Nicolaa Yes I appreciate Doris was very ill and its great that she's recovering. 
I just find it hard to understand why she's being put back on dry when a complete wet diet would help ensure her digestive health.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Nicolaa Yes I appreciate Doris was very ill and its great that she's recovering.
> I just find it hard to understand why she's being put back on dry when a complete wet diet would help ensure her digestive health.
> 
> Kath


I can only imagine that as something has been found that works, that has helped in regaining weight and condition and practically saved her life..that Angela has held onto this and may even have fear about changing this right now for fear of a flare up and going back to the way things were before..


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> another pic


She is so lovely..


----------



## buffie

Doris is a beautiful girl and looks very happy and healthy.
As someone who has a cat with IBD I can sympathise with your dilemma over food.
Meeko my Raggie should be on a single source protein diet or an exclusion diet to try to find out what is causing his vomiting,but he will not play the game and just flatly refuses to eat anything other than what to some would be considered rubbish.
What do you do,we seem to have found a low quality food which he can tolerate and with my vets approval he is staying on it,he agree's with me stressing him out with foods he hates was achieving nothing.
Knowing what food is good is of no use if they wont eat it 
Have to say I'm also surprised that Porta Grain Free has grain in it


----------



## Cloudygirl

KathinUK said:


> Hi Angela Its good to hear how well Doris is doing now - and thanx for sharing.
> 
> However I must express my concerns that firstly feeding a complementary food is storing up real trouble. As you probably know the diet has to be cal/phos balanced to produce a healthy animal.
> 
> Not sure why you'd want to get her back on dry stuff which is really really bad for cats
> - there are numerous threads on here explaining exactly why.
> 
> Since she's doing well on the Porta Sensitive then why not try adding Felini Complete to it so keeping her on a wet food which could be balanced.
> 
> Sorry to say this but there is also an issue with the 8% grain in the food which really has no place in a feline diet. It puts stress on the entire digestive system as cats are not designed to eat grains.
> 
> Kath


Is porta21 dry not advertised as a complete food any more? It used to say it was complete


----------



## KathinUK

AngelaWB said:


> Kath - believe me dry food isn't my first choice, I'm a fan of raw feeding for my dogs and cats and try to retain a natural, holistic and homeopathic approach to welfare. I took the Porta complimentary food to my vet and asked her advice, as I voiced the same concerns as you have below, she said it was fine, maybe this is because the situation was dire for Doris.
> 
> I was not aware that Porta Grain Free had 8% grain in it???


Angela I'm referring to the Porta 21 Chicken and Rice you mentioned not the dry stuff.



> All I can say is, despite anyones concerns and my reservations, my cat is now well, healthy, putting on weight and has solid stools.
> 
> I will eventually try to put her onto a raw diet, but if she regresses, she will go straight back onto the biscuits despite my reservations.


Well I can understand that ... but what puzzles me is if she was doing so well on the wet then why change her to a dry? 
Your choice of course .... and its great to hear she's doing well after her ordeal.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Angela I'm referring to the Porta 21 Chicken and Rice you mentioned not the dry stuff.
> 
> Well I can understand that ... but what puzzles me is if she was doing so well on the wet then why change her to a dry?
> Your choice of course .... and its great to hear she's doing well after her ordeal.
> 
> Kath


Maybe as the dry was complete ??

Kath if you found a dry food that Sally loved, ate and did well on and improved, thrived..would you feed it?


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Maybe as the dry was complete ??
> 
> Kath if you found a dry food that Sally loved, ate and did well on and improved, thrived..would you feed it?


NO!!

Kath


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Don't think I have a reply to that


I do ... I don't call it FOOD Nicolaa ... its dehydrated industrial waste 
Check it out  Its unable to support a healthy body


----------



## Cloudygirl

AngelaWB said:


> I'm deleting my comments on this thread, I was just trying to give encouragement to people who are in the same boat by showing a cat who has improved 100%, I don't really expect to be challenged on what I feed my cat when I had veterinary support from a homeopathic vet.


No don't do that. When my Boo first had a bad tum I got him onto a dry food his stomach could tolerate as he much prefers eating dry to wet. Over time he is now more on wet but its taken us ages to get to that stage


----------



## AngelaWB

I've a feeling it will take some time for Doris too.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I've a feeling it will take some time for Doris too.


please don't delete your posts..im interested in hearing about the bran you are adding..


----------



## Cloudygirl

I think a lot of it depends on your cat.i know ideally the best food for mine s high meat content pâté food and I'm sure that would be great if they'd eat it but they've decided that they aren't fans of pâté at all and it's just a waste if they only eat 1/3 of it


----------



## KathinUK

Cloudygirl said:


> No don't do that. When my Boo first had a bad tum I got him onto a dry food his stomach could tolerate as he much prefers eating dry to wet. Over time he is now more on wet but its taken us ages to get to that stage


How are you being challenged Angela?

If you're referring to any of my comments then I simply asked why you took your kitty off wet food and put her on the dry stuff.

The facts re dry are those already stated.

Kath


----------



## AngelaWB

Thank you ladies, I did wonder if I was being a little over sensitive, but maybe not.

Kath - I have very much the same opinion as you regarding various types of food, but if it is all the cat will eat, then there is not a lot of choice. Doris slowly went off the wet food and was not taking enough in to promote good health, that is why I introduced the Porta 21 dry - she is obviously good with their brand and she eats it. She has had Lilys Kitchen, Heermans, Bozita, Darlings...etc etc, she will either not eat it, or it makes her ill. My vet didn't recommend the food so has no financial gain at all, I found the food and asked her advice.

Nicola - my vet had recommended to use natural bran in my dogs diet for extra fibre to help with anal gland problems. In my 'nothing to lose' frame of mind, I didn't want Doris to become totally reliant on the digestor for pre/pro biotics and fibre, although you can use it indefinitely, I was afraid that if I did and she regressed, I'd have nothing to fall back on. So I started using just a pinch of bran in her food to give her fibre. She had normal stools with it. Yes this may be regarded as cereal, yes it may be wrong - but it suits my cat and that's all I can hope for. If I see a hint of any change in her stools, then the digestor will be introduced immediately.

My view now is that Doris shouldn't really be here, that morning I came down to find poos all over the conservatory, the furniture, all over her, blood and slime in it after weeks of trying different homeopathic nosodes and diets, she had no dignity left; I phoned the vet, went straight down with her and said put her to sleep, I can't cope with this, I had already seen my mums cat waste away with a similar condition. I had been made redundant, was extremely worried about my financial situation and losing my house (there's only me) and saw no light at the end of the tunnel with her health. Then I changed my mind and asked the vet if she would give it one last go, she kept her in for a week, but nothing worked, I couldn't give up and glad now that I found Digestor and Porta 21. I will try to get her on Natural Instinct raw meat, that is my preference, but if it's not her preference or it makes her ill, then she will go right back on Porta21 despite what I'd like.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Thank you ladies, I did wonder if I was being a little over sensitive, but maybe not.
> 
> Kath - I have very much the same opinion as you regarding various types of food, but if it is all the cat will eat, then there is not a lot of choice. Doris slowly went off the wet food and was not taking enough in to promote good health, that is why I introduced the Porta 21 dry - she is obviously good with their brand and she eats it. She has had Lilys Kitchen, Heermans, Bozita, Darlings...etc etc, she will either not eat it, or it makes her ill. My vet didn't recommend the food so has no financial gain at all, I found the food and asked her advice.
> 
> Nicola - my vet had recommended to use natural bran in my dogs diet for extra fibre to help with anal gland problems. In my 'nothing to lose' frame of mind, I didn't want Doris to become totally reliant on the digestor for pre/pro biotics and fibre, although you can use it indefinitely, I was afraid that if I did and she regressed, I'd have nothing to fall back on. So I started using just a pinch of bran in her food to give her fibre. She had normal stools with it. Yes this may be regarded as cereal, yes it may be wrong - but it suits my cat and that's all I can hope for. If I see a hint of any change in her stools, then the digestor will be introduced immediately.
> 
> My view now is that Doris shouldn't really be here, that morning I came down to find poos all over the conservatory, the furniture, all over her, blood and slime in it after weeks of trying different homeopathic nosodes and diets, she had no dignity left; I phoned the vet, went straight down with her and said put her to sleep, I can't cope with this, I had already seen my mums cat waste away with a similar condition. I had been made redundant, was extremely worried about my financial situation and losing my house (there's only me) and saw no light at the end of the tunnel with her health. Then I changed my mind and asked the vet if she would give it one last go, she kept her in for a week, but nothing worked, I couldn't give up and glad now that I found Digestor and Porta 21. I will try to get her on Natural Instinct raw meat, that is my preference, but if it's not her preference or it makes her ill, then she will go right back on Porta21 despite what I'd like.


so you just use normal bran. I've been looking at sites that talk about how cats are not getting enough fibre in their diets, it was a link pp gave on another thread, I will link here later..since adding pumpkin to rileys food, his stool has improved. But any alternatives I am welcome to try as he does not really enjoy the pumpkin that much!!

Riley is back on the metrondiazole again for now to hopefully sort the enzyme that was raised in his liver. I've also decided that im not going to worry about adding new food right now..maybe once he is back to 5kg.


----------



## Tao2

Anyway, hope I'm not stoking things up here but thought it was as good a time to out myself: I have been feeding Mittens ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING in order to get her to eat. We were at rock bottom and it was either crappy supermarket cat food or starvation. She has one meal of chicken a day and I try and get a helping of decent quality grain free cat food in her but apart from that, it's any old muck she will eat. Sadly though these last few weeks she has started to lose weight again and I can't think what to try her with now. Nightmare.:nonod:


----------



## AngelaWB

Poor Riley, he's been through it hasn't he, you too!

Yes it's just organic natural bran from the health shop that I give the dogs. I'll probably find out it's really bad to give it to her, but it's working and at least her digestive system isn't relying on the Digestor. She literally just has a pinch though and to be honest, I might drop that now that she's eating the biscuits as there should be sufficient fibre in those - hopefully!


----------



## AngelaWB

oh should have said, tried pumpkin too - she wouldn't eat it, nor would she eat anything with psyllium husk in it, she's got a nose like a radar, you hear her sniffing her food like a dog, then she just walks off. Not sure if it's a Pixie Bob trait, but none of my other cats do it.


----------



## Ianthi

AngelaWB-I believe it's such a pity you've deleted your post outlining Doris's story. I only had time for a quick glimpse last night, returned for a more in depth read today only to find it had disappeared! It's vital for readers to hear success stories like this with potentially tricky conditions like IBD where undoubtedly a 'one size fits all' treatment regime doesn't apply and owners (and their vets!) can often struggle to find the optimum one.

I think you should be highly commended for bringing Doris back from the brink like this and regardless of the 'merits' or otherwise of certain foods (which is totally irrelevant really) nobody can dispute the fact they work for Doris and frankly that's all that matters! So you go girl! 




PS I couldn't find anything on Digestor having not heard of it before. Would you mind telling me a bit more about it, please?


----------



## nicolaa123

Kath, if you don't want to post on here then don't, its your choice. As for the whole it can be cured thing, maybe we should all give you our cats to be fixed.

I'm really upset that this thread which was started to share experiences experience and SUPPORT each other in our journeys has turned into this. If anyone was attacking it was you. As said im all for information but just because some one does some thing different we can ask why and give our point of view, but you was over the top and was not done in the right way, even if your intentions were in the right place.

I really want this to stop now as I don't want this thread to be locked away.

SO I suggest we draw a line under it all and get back what we are here for our cats and just remember to give each other the respect we all deserve.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Kath, if you don't want to post on here then don't, its your choice. As for the whole it can be cured thing, maybe we should all give you our cats to be fixed.
> 
> I'm really upset that this thread which was started to share experiences experience and SUPPORT each other in our journeys has turned into this. If anyone was attacking it was you. As said im all for information but just because some one does some thing different we can ask why and give our point of view, but you was over the top and was not done in the right way, even if your intentions were in the right place.
> 
> I really want this to stop now as I don't want this thread to be locked away.
> 
> SO I suggest we draw a line under it all and get back what we are here for our cats and just remember to give each other the respect we all deserve.


I don't know what the h"ll I'm supposed to have done nicolaa. Who have I attacked .. and when 
But yes I am convinced that bowel inflammation is curable. You need to remember tho that my Sally also has Hodgkins lymphoma which it is suspected may affect her digestion.


----------



## nicolaa123

..any hoo from pp's suggestion I started to look at paleo diets, I came across this site, now I have not been through it all as for me I was mainly looking at the adding of extra fibre to diets.

Not sure if will help our vomiting cats? But I can see why it would help our diarrhoea cats..

Paleopet | Home of the original Paleolithic diet for pets

See what you think..


----------



## AngelaWB

This is the link to Digestor, they also make a 'gut rite' product but I haven't used that.

Osmonds Digestor 250g - Best Sellers

My sisters dog had a digestion problem, she was hiccuping and being sick etc, she'd been to the vet several times and they didn't find anything. She used digestor and it resulted in her passing a huge stool after which she has been fine.

My use of it on Doris has been hugely beneficial. Again, very soon after using it, huge stool passed and then the slow road to recovery has taken place.

The pet can remain on it indefinitely, but I didn't want Doris to become reliant on it, but I have a large tub in the cupboard just in case she needs it when I try to change her back to a raw diet.

Current diet: Porta 21 Chicken and Rice Sensitive wet food and Porta 21 Sensible Grain Free


----------



## AngelaWB

This Paleopet Diet website makes interesting reading, just been watching his videos too. Just trying to find out if you can buy the hard copy book in uk, you can get the kindle edition on amazon, but I like to read in the old fashioned way


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> This is the link to Digestor, they also make a 'gut rite' product but I haven't used that.
> 
> Osmonds Digestor 250g - Best Sellers
> 
> My sisters dog had a digestion problem, she was hiccuping and being sick etc, she'd been to the vet several times and they didn't find anything. She used digestor and it resulted in her passing a huge stool after which she has been fine.
> 
> My use of it on Doris has been hugely beneficial. Again, very soon after using it, huge stool passed and then the slow road to recovery has taken place.
> 
> The pet can remain on it indefinitely, but I didn't want Doris to become reliant on it, but I have a large tub in the cupboard just in case she needs it when I try to change her back to a raw diet.
> 
> Current diet: Porta 21 Chicken and Rice Sensitive wet food and Porta 21 Sensible Grain Free


Thanks, will have a look later at that. Really pleased to hear that you have found something that has worked for Doris..how much weight gain did she have?


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> This Paleopet Diet website makes interesting reading, just been watching his videos too. Just trying to find out if you can buy the hard copy book in uk, you can get the kindle edition on amazon, but I like to read in the old fashioned way


It is interesting to read, tho not sure some of our cats would be happy to find a bowl full of veggies!!  from my understanding, it seems to be like the "caveman"diet. I wish Riley would even try raw, but he just does not see it as food:thumbdown:

I will watch with interest if you decide to change Doris's food..I'm bit nervous to do that with Riley, I will wait until he (fingers crossed) regains some weight, but the last change sent him into a flare up..


----------



## Ianthi

AngelaWB said:


> This is the link to Digestor, they also make a 'gut rite' product but I haven't used that.
> 
> Osmonds Digestor 250g - Best Sellers


Thanks Angela! Ah! now I can see why I'm unfamiliar with it since it's mainly used for dogs!

Best of luck to your and Doris!


----------



## AngelaWB

I'll weigh her again Nicola, but last weigh in was about 0.9 kg gain, so I'm happy with that. I tend to weigh my very slight cat to ensure he doesn't lose any weight at all, but with the bigger cats I weigh them when I notice a difference when picking them up.

I'm very dubious that Doris will eat the raw, but if she does and there's any indication at all of her stools starting to change, then she goes back to Porta and stays on it indefinitely. I have to try it quite soon as if she gets really bad again, she needs to be out in the cat pen, so need to do it before the weather cools down.

Both my dogs eat raw diet, but the cats know what they like and thats it lol! 

I will look a the paleo diet for the dogs 

Ianthi, yes bought Digester originally for the dogs, but when I asked about buying Gut Rite for Doris, they advised me to try the digestor first, and I'm glad I did!


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I'll weigh her again Nicola, but last weigh in was about 0.9 kg gain, so I'm happy with that. I tend to weigh my very slight cat to ensure he doesn't lose any weight at all, but with the bigger cats I weigh them when I notice a difference when picking them up.
> 
> I'm very dubious that Doris will eat the raw, but if she does and there's any indication at all of her stools starting to change, then she goes back to Porta and stays on it indefinitely. I have to try it quite soon as if she gets really bad again, she needs to be out in the cat pen, so need to do it before the weather cools down.
> 
> Both my dogs eat raw diet, but the cats know what they like and thats it lol!
> 
> I will look a the paleo diet for the dogs
> 
> Ianthi, yes bought Digester originally for the dogs, but when I asked about buying Gut Rite for Doris, they advised me to try the digestor first, and I'm glad I did!


That's a really good gain, hopefully I will be able to report a gain for Riley next time! I know the dry is not an "ideal" diet, but you have tried a lot of other foods. To be honest I can't see any reason to change it, it works and she is gaining and importantly her poo is better. Some times that's just the way it is 

As for Riley, he is still doing well, I've been letting him out again as the complaining was driving me loopy  the condition is, he has a poo in his tray then he gets to go out for a couple of hours in the evening. No poo no out!! Had a little set back as I tried reducing the pumpkin in his food, and that had explosive results  but we are back to normal again now, so will put that down to me messing around with the pumpkin levels!!


----------



## AngelaWB

nicolaa123 said:


> That's a really good gain, hopefully I will be able to report a gain for Riley next time! I know the dry is not an "ideal" diet, but you have tried a lot of other foods. To be honest I can't see any reason to change it, it works and she is gaining and importantly her poo is better. Some times that's just the way it is
> 
> As for Riley, he is still doing well, I've been letting him out again as the complaining was driving me loopy  the condition is, he has a poo in his tray then he gets to go out for a couple of hours in the evening. No poo no out!! Had a little set back as I tried reducing the pumpkin in his food, and that had explosive results  but we are back to normal again now, so will put that down to me messing around with the pumpkin levels!!


I thought it was a really good gain too, I'm really pleased.

Poor Riley, bless him, the pumpkin obviously suits him well. I can imagine the conversation between you both


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I thought it was a really good gain too, I'm really pleased.
> 
> Poor Riley, bless him, the pumpkin obviously suits him well. I can imagine the conversation between you both


The conversation goes..

Me: have a poo
Him: miow
Me:have a poo
Him: miooooowww
Me: have a poo please
Him: miooooooowwwwww miooooowwwww
Me: just have a poo and you can got out
Him: miooooowww miooooooooww mioooowwwwww

Fast forward a period of time..

I'm hoovering over the tray..
Me: please just have a poo, you need a poo, do a poo.
Him: (translated) just waiting..

Fast forward to my dinner time taking the 4 th mouthful.

Him: ha ha now I'm having a poo! Come on clean my tray slave :yikes:
Me: grrrrrrr :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> The conversation goes..
> 
> Me: have a poo
> Him: miow
> Me:have a poo
> Him: miooooowww
> Me: have a poo please
> Him: miooooooowwwwww miooooowwwww
> Me: just have a poo and you can got out
> Him: miooooowww miooooooooww mioooowwwwww
> 
> Fast forward a period of time..
> 
> I'm hoovering over the tray..
> Me: please just have a poo, you need a poo, do a poo.
> Him: (translated) just waiting..
> 
> Fast forward to my dinner time taking the 4 th mouthful.
> 
> Him: ha ha now I'm having a poo! Come on clean my tray slave :yikes:
> Me: grrrrrrr :laugh: :laugh:


You have finally cracked :yikes: Nicola you are officially crazy :crazy:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You have finally cracked :yikes: Nicola you are officially crazy :crazy:


Yup! Can't beat them join em


----------



## AngelaWB

ha ha, love it Nicola....my lot can all be out in the cat pens, but they wait until they come in during the evening, just when I've sat down for the first time all day, they head for the litter tray, arghhhhhh.

Doris has been having a spoon full of Natural Instinct raw meat mixed with her Porta 21 wet food for the past 3 days -she's eating it and she's still solid, yeay!!


----------



## KathinUK

> Kath - I have very much the same opinion as you regarding various types of food, but if it is all the cat will eat, then there is not a lot of choice. Doris slowly went off the wet food and was not taking enough in to promote good health, that is why I introduced the Porta 21 dry - she is obviously good with their brand and she eats it.


My reason for this late response is simply to clear up what may have been a misunderstanding about what happened with your Doris and what may have lead to her huge improvement. Its something I'd been thinking about quite a bit. You Never Know ... it may help someone .... somewhere .....
:devil: :Yawn: :devil:

Anyway, if you look at the ingredients list of Feline Porta 21 Chicken with Rice Sensitive, you will see it contains 
_*"Chicken meat (37%), rice (8%), chicken broth (55%)"
NB 55% Chicken Broth!!*_

Feline Porta 21 - 6 x 156g: Free P&P on orders £25+ at zooplus!

If you then compare this with guidelines for *"Treating IBD - Using an Introductory Diet - Homemade Meat and Fish Stocks*" written by Lyn Thomas BVSc at Feline Nutrition Org ......

"Meat and fish stocks provide building blocks for the rapidly growing cells of the gut lining and they have a soothing effect on any areas of inflammation in the gut. Bone broth is rich in minerals including calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulphate, fluoride, all delivered in an easily absorbable form. The minerals will improve immune function and support healthy digestion. Bone broth is also rich in collagen. Collagen is a protein containing two important amino acids, proline and glycine, and it will help heal the lining of the gut to relieve intestinal inflammation. Broths also contain glycosaminoglycans, also called GAGs, important building blocks for tissue repair.

"This is why broths aid digestion and have been known for centuries as healing folk remedies for the digestive tract.¹ "
_ 1. F Guarner, F Casellas, N Borruel, M Antolín, S Videla, J Vilaseca and JR Malagelada, "Role of Microecology in Chronic Inflammatory Bowel Diseases," European Journal of Clinical Nutrition no. 56, Supplement 4, Dec 2002, S34-8._

.... you will see this adds to the justification for using bone broth for IBD :001_tt2::001_tt2:

Given this experience it does make me wonder what, if any, part the Digestor or other fibre actually played in saving Doris's little life.

I do like clarity and control in my life .. and think this may explain a few things.

Also hope she continues to do well ... as Sally too is at the mo .... thankfully.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> ha ha, love it Nicola....my lot can all be out in the cat pens, but they wait until they come in during the evening, just when I've sat down for the first time all day, they head for the litter tray, arghhhhhh.
> 
> Doris has been having a spoon full of Natural Instinct raw meat mixed with her Porta 21 wet food for the past 3 days -she's eating it and she's still solid, yeay!!


That's really good news!! Hope she continues to do well. Riley will not eat and sort or raw meat..I keep trying when I have any meat, but he just does not get that it's food!! I will be interested in your updates with her progress..

Oh and any tips getting cats to eat raw?? Mind knowing my luck, Riley will react to raw food as well  I have looked into getting raw kangaroo but could not get any single bits to try..not sort of thing you find in the local supermarket


----------



## lymorelynn

nicolaa123 said:


> That's really good news!! Hope she continues to do well. Riley will not eat and sort or raw meat..I keep trying when I have any meat, but he just does not get that it's food!! I will be interested in your updates with her progress..
> 
> Oh and any tips getting cats to eat raw?? Mind knowing my luck, Riley will react to raw food as well * I have looked into getting raw kangaroo but could not get any single bits to try..not sort of thing you find in the local supermarket *




My local Lidl had some - worth a look if you have one near you


----------



## nicolaa123

lymorelynn said:


> [/B]
> 
> My local Lidl had some - worth a look if you have one near you


I will look to see where my nearest one is, thanks Lynn..if not I'm sure it will make a tasty dinner for me


----------



## AngelaWB

KathinUK said:


> My reason for this late response is simply to clear up what may have been a misunderstanding about what happened with your Doris and what may have lead to her huge improvement. Its something I'd been thinking about quite a bit. You Never Know ... it may help someone .... somewhere .....
> :devil: :Yawn: :devil:
> 
> Anyway, if you look at the ingredients list of Feline Porta 21 Chicken with Rice Sensitive, you will see it contains
> _*"Chicken meat (37%), rice (8%), chicken broth (55%)"
> NB 55% Chicken Broth!!*_
> 
> Feline Porta 21 - 6 x 156g: Free P&P on orders £25+ at zooplus!
> 
> If you then compare this with guidelines for *"Treating IBD - Using an Introductory Diet - Homemade Meat and Fish Stocks*" written by Lyn Thomas BVSc at Feline Nutrition Org ......
> 
> "Meat and fish stocks provide building blocks for the rapidly growing cells of the gut lining and they have a soothing effect on any areas of inflammation in the gut. Bone broth is rich in minerals including calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulphate, fluoride, all delivered in an easily absorbable form. The minerals will improve immune function and support healthy digestion. Bone broth is also rich in collagen. Collagen is a protein containing two important amino acids, proline and glycine, and it will help heal the lining of the gut to relieve intestinal inflammation. Broths also contain glycosaminoglycans, also called GAGs, important building blocks for tissue repair.
> 
> "This is why broths aid digestion and have been known for centuries as healing folk remedies for the digestive tract.¹ "
> _ 1. F Guarner, F Casellas, N Borruel, M Antolín, S Videla, J Vilaseca and JR Malagelada, "Role of Microecology in Chronic Inflammatory Bowel Diseases," European Journal of Clinical Nutrition no. 56, Supplement 4, Dec 2002, S34-8._
> 
> .... you will see this adds to the justification for using bone broth for IBD :001_tt2::001_tt2:
> 
> Given this experience it does make me wonder what, if any, part the Digestor or other fibre actually played in saving Doris's little life.
> 
> I do like clarity and control in my life .. and think this may explain a few things.
> 
> Also hope she continues to do well ... as Sally too is at the mo .... thankfully.
> 
> Kath


Thanks Kath.

I've no idea which bit actually worked, but I had fed her home boiled chicken, broth, pumpkin, taurine etc as advised by her breeder, she was fed this for some time but it didn't help. Whether it was the Porta21, whether it was the digestor, or maybe a combination of both, I don't know, but whatever it was - it worked thank goodness.

I'm trying to introduce other foods so that she's not reliant on one and to try to toughen her up - she's now eating Natural Instinct and motions are still first class. So fingers crossed all will be well now.

Glad Sally is well too.

Edit... forgot to add - improvement started within days of starting digestor in food, so guess must have had some sort of effect, maybe just good with Porta


----------



## AngelaWB

nicolaa123 said:


> That's really good news!! Hope she continues to do well. Riley will not eat and sort or raw meat..I keep trying when I have any meat, but he just does not get that it's food!! I will be interested in your updates with her progress..
> 
> Oh and any tips getting cats to eat raw?? Mind knowing my luck, Riley will react to raw food as well  I have looked into getting raw kangaroo but could not get any single bits to try..not sort of thing you find in the local supermarket


Nicola, when I tried Doris on raw previously she looked at me as though I was nuts and wouldn't touch it, but all my cats seem to like the Natural Instinct (think it's chicken and lamb). I give them a very small amount with their normal food and then increased the amount of raw, decreasing their usual one each meal, fed them 4 small meals - so far so good and Doris is passing REALLY solid and good motions.

By the way, Aldi have tins of pumpkin at the moment, know you use it


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Nicola, when I tried Doris on raw previously she looked at me as though I was nuts and wouldn't touch it, but all my cats seem to like the Natural Instinct (think it's chicken and lamb). I give them a very small amount with their normal food and then increased the amount of raw, decreasing their usual one each meal, fed them 4 small meals - so far so good and Doris is passing REALLY solid and good motions.
> 
> *By the way, Aldi have tins of pumpkin at the moment, know you use it *


My friend also said they had pumpkin, I searched my store but could not find the pumpkin anywhere. I will ask tomorrow if they have some..thanks!

I'm limited a bit with Riley as there are some proteins he can't have and many he won't eat! Still food is lower down on priority at the moment. He seems to be out of the flare up and we are controlling his condition right now. I'm trying to get some weight on him, he looks so skinny poor boy. I'm also really hoping he does not end up with a problem with his liver.

He will have his bloods check again when we go back for his weight check..tho I'm not sure if the vet will manage thus time to get his bloods. I'm going to call her few days before to discuss this. I don't really want him to have to be knocked out for them, so am going to ask if there is maybe an oral sedative I can give just before we go to chill him out a bit..if there is such a thing


----------



## Ianthi

Nicolaa...Hopefully your vet is still 'working' with the referral centre vets to resolve Riley's issues. I think you need to press them for more definite reasons as to his weight loss. Frankly this concerns me given his blood results didn't reflect severe protein loss. My understanding is that weight loss is a feature of more advanced (not necessarily untreatable by any means) IBD and from what I can gather this doesn't appear to be the case with Riley.

I'm actually reverting to what I said earlier ie trying pancreatic enzymes. My reasoning now as well as former ones, is based on recent concerns _about his liver. If his liver is affected it's perfectly feasible (dual involvement is very _common with IBD) his pancreas may also be in which case enzyme production may well be affected. I realise his fTLI test was normal but do remember about the dog I told you about who's tests were OK but who actually thrived (weight gain and no diarrhoea) nonetheless when these were added to his food.


----------



## AngelaWB

Nicola - the pumpkin in our store is in with all the 'weekly offer' stuff if that helps.

Really hope Riley puts some weight on soon, good luck at the vets.


----------



## nicolaa123

Ianthi said:


> Nicolaa...Hopefully your vet is still 'working' with the referral centre vets to resolve Riley's issues. I think you need to press them for more definite reasons as to his weight loss. Frankly this concerns me given his blood results didn't reflect severe protein loss. My understanding is that weight loss is a feature of more advanced (not necessarily untreatable by any means) IBD and from what I can gather this doesn't appear to be the case with Riley.
> 
> I'm actually reverting to what I said earlier ie trying pancreatic enzymes. My reasoning now as well as former ones, is based on recent concerns _about his liver. If his liver is affected it's perfectly feasible (dual involvement is very _common with IBD) his pancreas may also be in which case enzyme production may well be affected. I realise his fTLI test was normal but do remember about the dog I told you about who's tests were OK but who actually thrived (weight gain and no diarrhoea) nonetheless when these were added to his food.


We will only know about the liver on the next blood tests as it could be the overgrowth in bacteria, hopefully the blood tests will show the liver is fine after the course of antibiotics..

Now the flare up is under control ( I'm putting that mainly down to the chlorambucil ) we can get some weight back on to him and we can the control his condition, knowing what to give when a flare up happens.

If on his next weight check he has lost or not made a gain I will certainly be asking more questions around the weight issue as it does not make sense to me. Polly did want to do the full thickness biopsy, but I said no as I could not put him through it..

Also I had decided if no weight gain I will ask or source enzymes for him to try and see if makes a difference, right now I want to try and minimise the stuff he is on to see if he is making any progress in his own right (if that makes sense).

I also think that there is not much known about feline ibd, hence there is no cure just managing through diet or meds or combination. I've seen many requests for clinical trials, but yet to find any of the findings..mainly in the us to be fair..

He is good in himself right now which I am so happy about, hopefully we will see a gain and the liver is fine and we have a way of treating and further flare ups..


----------



## Ianthi

nicolaa123 said:


> We will only know about the liver on the next blood tests as it could be the overgrowth in bacteria, hopefully the blood tests will show the liver is fine after the course of antibiotics..
> 
> If on his next weight check he has lost or not made a gain I will certainly be asking more questions around the weight issue as it does not make sense to me. Polly did want to do the full thickness biopsy, but I said no as I could not put him through it..
> 
> Also I had decided if no weight gain I will ask or source enzymes for him to try and see if makes a difference, right now I want to try and minimise the stuff he is on to see if he is making any progress in his own right (if that makes sense).
> 
> ..


I suspect the vet meant that intestinal bacterial overgrowth has spread to the liver (it can also to the pancreas) hence the elevation in these enzymes. I'm not sure how useful a full thickness biopsy would have been to be honest.

My observations are based on the blood results which did not reflect protein loss ( I would expect this with weight-loss) and the biopsy ones which mentioned about the _possibility_ of a contribution to weight-loss. So ruling out protein loss through intestinal malabsorption, logically something else must be responsible for Riley's 'failure to thrive'! You have mentioned he's quite thin.


----------



## nicolaa123

Ianthi said:


> I suspect the vet meant that intestinal bacterial overgrowth has spread to the liver (it can also to the pancreas) hence the elevation in these enzymes. I'm not sure how useful a full thickness biopsy would have been to be honest.
> 
> My observations are based on the blood results which did not reflect protein loss ( I would expect this with weight-loss) and the biopsy ones which mentioned about the _possibility_ of a contribution to weight-loss. So ruling out protein loss through intestinal malabsorption, logically something else must be responsible for Riley's 'failure to thrive'! You have mentioned he's quite thin.


He is thin, I can easily feel his spine with out any pressure and his hips, you can also see his hips. His shoulders you can also feel. His ribs you can feel with slight pressure..he is under weight that's for sure..he needs a good kg on him.

If its not the ibd I have no idea what it could be as he has been tested for a lot of things. I am feeding him lots! He sleeps for 80% of the day!! But, he may now he is out of the flare up put on weight..that's what I hope as otherwise I'm stumped!


----------



## lymorelynn

Following reports I have removed some unnecessary, petty comments. If you wish this thread to remain open and a sticky please use it in the way it was intended - as advice and support for those whose cats suffer from this problem - and if you have any personal issues with other members keep them off the open forum. Thank you.


----------



## nicolaa123

lymorelynn said:


> Following reports I have removed some unnecessary, petty comments. If you wish this thread to remain open and a sticky please use it in the way it was intended - as advice and support for those whose cats suffer from this problem - and if you have any personal issues with other members keep them off the open forum. Thank you.


It is really sad the thread has come to this. Its really quite upset me to be honest. That's all I have to say..

Oh and Lynn if this does disapeer into the deep void, could I at least print the pages as its a lot of info I've shared about rileys journey through ibd and would be gutted to loose it.


----------



## lymorelynn

At the moment this thread will remain here and open.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Nicola - the pumpkin in our store is in with all the 'weekly offer' stuff if that helps.
> 
> Really hope Riley puts some weight on soon, good luck at the vets.


Found the pumpkin!! £1.29 in aldi..£2 in waitrose!! Going to stock up as the best before is September 2015!! Thanks Angela..

.......now kitchen will be full of cat food and tins of pumpkin ut:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Found the pumpkin!! £1.29 in aldi..£2 in waitrose!! Going to stock up as the best before is September 2015!! Thanks Angela..
> 
> .......now kitchen will be full of cat food and tins of pumpkin ut:


I've got a wardrobe full of discontinued cat food  We really do need help


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I've got a wardrobe full of discontinued cat food  We really do need help


Yup!!!!

Bit concerned Riley has just been sick  it's the watery, frothy type of sick. He had not eaten any of his dinner from when I came home..to being sick and has not eaten as yet.

I know he has not been sick very often, think last time was a couple of weeks ago (will check) I am a bit concerned if this is another stage or symptom of ibd..think I will call the vet tomorrow and ask her opinion. With out checking its been last month or so where he has been sick maybe 3-4 occasions, always on an empty stomach and always frothy liquid type sick..

..my poor little man never just rains for him..

Edit..he has just eaten..I swear this boy will make me grey


----------



## buffie

I think this weather is causing a few problems with many cats,I'm hoping that is what has caused Meeko to be sick a few times.They always contain fur balls so I'm hoping that it is not the famotidine stopping its effect but excess grooming to blame.

Glad to see that Riley has eaten at last


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think this weather is causing a few problems with many cats,I'm hoping that is what has caused Meeko to be sick a few times.They always contain fur balls so I'm hoping that it is not the famotidine stopping its effect but excess grooming to blame.
> 
> Glad to see that Riley has eaten at last


Yeah he seems ok..we have been having monsoons here 

Hopefully for Meeko it is just a furball issue..and not a flare up..how is his eating at the moment?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah he seems ok..we have been having monsoons here
> 
> Hopefully for Meeko it is just a furball issue..and not a flare up..how is his eating at the moment?


He's up and down but then that is normal for him.One day he will stuff his face the next hardly eat anything,sometimes I think he lives on fresh air 
I had hoped the fresh air would have helped his appetite but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He's up and down but then that is normal for him.One day he will stuff his face the next hardly eat anything,sometimes I think he lives on fresh air
> I had hoped the fresh air would have helped his appetite but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.


Riley is just tucking into his 2nd dinner of the night  he has eaten 300g of food today  and a moth 

Now on my lap chewing his nails..goes right through me that does!

It's funny that we find their behaviour as "normal" I was thinking this earlier how you can not accept as such but do accept (for want of a better word) the ups and downs of ibd..

On another note..during winter I'm looking forward to the grrrrrrrrrrrr cat run thread as you sit outside with Meeko frozen :devil: :ihih:  or will it be heated


----------



## Cloudygirl

I went into Aldi tonight seeking pumpkin but there wasn't any


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley is just tucking into his 2nd dinner of the night  he has eaten 300g of food today  and a moth
> 
> Now on my lap chewing his nails..goes right through me that does!
> 
> It's funny that we find their behaviour as "normal" I was thinking this earlier how you can not accept as such but do accept (for want of a better word) the ups and downs of ibd..
> 
> On another note..during winter I'm looking forward to the grrrrrrrrrrrr cat run thread as you sit outside with Meeko frozen :devil: :ihih:  *or will it be heated :*D


Will it hell  He's on his own when the temp drops 
We have just finished a small lean-to run over the back door so that he can go out and in to suit himself (door open ) although it is small he seems to prefer it


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> I went into Aldi tonight seeking pumpkin but there wasn't any


It took me a while to find it..I think they have about 30 tins so will buy one each day 

They were where Angela said, in my local store they were where all the stuff they change on a regular basis the offers of the week stuff..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Will it hell  He's on his own when the temp drops
> We have just finished a small lean-to run over the back door so that he can go out and in to suit himself (door open ) although it is small he seems to prefer it


I'm really good at knitting scarves  what colour would you and Meeko like for Christmas??   Riley will "help" too  so forgive any holes..:001_unsure:


----------



## nicolaa123

Uhm you have permission to slap me I said the Christmas word in July ut: ut:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm really good at knitting scarves  what colour would you and Meeko like for Christmas??   Riley will "help" too  so forgive any holes..:001_unsure:


I was trying to ignore the mention of the "C" word but you have just said it again 
How about a Balaclava with sleeves  that should keep you busy


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I was trying to ignore the mention of the "C" word but you have just said it again
> How about a Balaclava with sleeves  that should keep you busy


Hey if that's what you want I will try.......but uhm well I can only knit scarves


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hey if that's what you want I will try.......but uhm well I can only knit scarves


Any flippin' excuse


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Any flippin' excuse


ok will send a jumper for you both.........dont blame me that it will look like a scarf


----------



## nicolaa123

Morning! Hope all the ibd cats are doing well!! Thanks to buffie, I had an idea  I could make snoodes to cover our cats shaved bits when they have had scans and the like!!

Have not managed to speak with my vet as yet about the sickness, but Riley seems ok this morning, he has eaten well and is being pain as normal..

I did have to deal with a poo issue this morning..not his, a tiny snail was on the wall and left a small poo :blushing: Riley's movements have been ok again, he still gets the starts off firm ending in a bit wet but no more explosions!!

It's raining here so much cooler, but it's meant to be 30 degree tomorrow, so will make sure I add extra water in his food tomorrow so his water intake is increased!

Going to measure is bald bits and start my knitting, think an electric blue would suit him. Oh I've also been doing some more research so will share some more websites later..


----------



## buffie

Meeko is out on his bird watching seat ,he seems okay but is still not "right".
His vet is back from holiday now so I might just take him in for a check over,but the thing is there is nothing to see.Look forward to reading your new findings,we need all the info we can find even if it doesn't help us it may help someone.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko is out on his bird watching seat ,he seems okay but is still not "right".
> His vet is back from holiday now so I might just take him in for a check over,but the thing is there is nothing to see.Look forward to reading your new findings,we need all the info we can find even if it doesn't help us it may help someone.


I know what you mean about not "right" wonder if they will suggest you have the referral?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I know what you mean about not "right" wonder if they will suggest you have the referral?


I think the ball is in my court regarding the referral,my vet is more than happy for him to go if I want to go down that route.
Not sure if there is a lot to be achieved at the moment though as they have already spoken at length about Meeko and the specialist has said that they would not expect to find anything different.
Like you I'm not keen to have him opened up and that apart from a more sophisticated endoscopy is really all they can do that is different.
Its such a balancing act "investigations and stress" not a great combo in IBD


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think the ball is in my court regarding the referral,my vet is more than happy for him to go if I want to go down that route.
> Not sure if there is a lot to be achieved at the moment though as they have already spoken at length about Meeko and the specialist has said that they would not expect to find anything different.
> Like you I'm not keen to have him opened up and that apart from a more sophisticated endoscopy is really all they can do that is different.
> Its such a balancing act "investigations and stress" not a great combo in IBD


Sure is, you know how I agonised about that..

Right going to switch off for a while as have to do the vat and company year end and need to concentrate :001_unsure:

I will post the ibd sites later for you, it's not really anything that new, but have been looking into the affects of ibd on the liver and pancreas as it could (is for mittens) effect ours also..

Oh and just a quote I found on one site...

The best food for cats is a mouse in a tin, preferably a live mouse so when you open the tin it jumps out and the cat gets some exercise also before then eating the mouse!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sure is, you know how I agonised about that..
> 
> Right going to switch off for a while as have to do the vat and company year end and need to concentrate :001_unsure:
> 
> I will post the ibd sites later for you, it's not really anything that new, but have been looking into the affects of ibd on the liver and pancreas as it could (is for mittens) effect ours also..
> 
> Oh and just a quote I found on one site...
> 
> *The best food for cats is a mouse in a tin, preferably a live mouse so when you open the tin it jumps out and the cat gets some exercise also before then eating the mouse*!!


Less slacking Mrs get working  I'd love to see Meeko's face if I opened a tin and out popped a mouse  :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Less slacking Mrs get working  I'd love to see Meeko's face if I opened a tin and out popped a mouse  :lol: :lol:


I have thought about buying mice for Riley as I know he eats them, however I think he would want his alive and I just not sure I could do that, considering the great lengths I goto to rescue them. Plus mice do give him the runs!


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok just some stuff been looking at

Wet, canned & Pouches cat food

If only we could get the same choice of food, I search every where for buffalow!!

Dry food

Raw Food Products

All American so no real possibility of shipping really  but thought would share anyway 

Tips & Tricks.

I think I have shared that site before as it has the stories on there also..

This is what we want to avoid, but well guess may have to face so best to get some info loaded up now..

http://www.bestfriendsvet.com/pdffiles/triad disease 2010.pdf

Liver Disease In Your Cat - Cholangiohepatitis - Triad Disease etc.

A lot of info on that one, but i like it it's explained in normal language..I'm not being all doom and gloom, but I think that the info is very useful for us all to be aware of what could happen. I did not really link it all together, just saw as ibd so now I will certainly be more aware!

And just lastly to give you a lift after all that reading!! As sometimes let's face it we need a lift from the depths of ibd!!

Chic Diagonal Stripe Scarf | FaveCrafts.com
Kiel Scarf | FaveCrafts.com


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have thought about buying mice for Riley as I know he eats them, however I think he would want his alive and I just not sure I could do that, considering the great lengths I goto to rescue them. Plus mice do give him the runs!


They do seem to be popular with raw feeders,I think many buy "pinkies" but I think Meeko would be as horrified as me at the thought.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok just some stuff been looking at
> 
> Wet, canned & Pouches cat food
> 
> If only we could get the same choice of food, I search every where for buffalow!!
> 
> Dry food
> 
> Raw Food Products
> 
> All American so no real possibility of shipping really  but thought would share anyway
> 
> Tips & Tricks.
> 
> I think I have shared that site before as it has the stories on there also..
> 
> This is what we want to avoid, but well guess may have to face so best to get some info loaded up now..
> 
> http://www.bestfriendsvet.com/pdffiles/triad disease 2010.pdf
> 
> Liver Disease In Your Cat - Cholangiohepatitis - Triad Disease etc.
> 
> A lot of info on that one, but i like it it's explained in normal language..I'm not being all doom and gloom, but I think that the info is very useful for us all to be aware of what could happen. I did not really link it all together, just saw as ibd so now I will certainly be more aware!
> 
> And just lastly to give you a lift after all that reading!! As sometimes let's face it we need a lift from the depths of ibd!!
> 
> Chic Diagonal Stripe Scarf | FaveCrafts.com
> Kiel Scarf | FaveCrafts.com


:w00t: That's me sorted for "reading material" but I will save it and read it when my brain is feeling less "tired"

Love the scarf BTW :thumbsup:


----------



## nicolaa123

There is a lot to read! I'm still working my way through the last one..

Just given Riley a good brush..his bald patches got me searching on the net 

This would have been ideal in winter

Feline Fashion Accessories - The Knitted Scarf for Cats is Stylish and Adorable (GALLERY)

The look on that poor cats face  

I so have to make some of them for our ibd little ones with their shaved necks..


----------



## nicolaa123

Forgot to add in my knitting haze 

Had letter confirming insurance has paid referral vets..I really must say, sainsbury's really have been excellent in their claims process. Really quick, no fuss and always really good customer service. I will ring them tomorrow to thank them. Having insurance really helps, having good insurance takes all the worry away from finding the cash!



On another note Riley has bad wind tonight, he is sat on my lap with green smoke coming out of his bum :ihih: :001_unsure: 

It reminds me of my old dog, pepper, a beautiful brown Doberman, she used to have bad wind. She would lay down, then suddenly her head would whip round to her bum and she would then get up and leave the room, but leave the smell behind her. Riley however is far to comfy on my lap to make a discrete exit


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Forgot to add in my knitting haze
> 
> Had letter confirming insurance has paid referral vets..I really must say, sainsbury's really have been excellent in their claims process. Really quick, no fuss and always really good customer service. I will ring them tomorrow to thank them. Having insurance really helps, having good insurance takes all the worry away from finding the cash!
> 
> On another note Riley has bad wind tonight, he is sat on my lap with green smoke coming out of his bum :ihih: :001_unsure:
> 
> It reminds me of my old dog, pepper, a beautiful brown Doberman, she used to have bad wind. She would lay down, then suddenly her head would whip round to her bum and she would then get up and leave the room, but leave the smell behind her. Riley however is far to comfy on my lap to make a discrete exit


Oh the joys of IBD cats,I know it isn't really funny but just sometimes if you didn't laugh you would bawl your eyes out


----------



## AngelaWB

Just keep laughing, when you feel like crying I find a nice glass of wine and a huge bar of chocolate help!


----------



## buffie

AngelaWB said:


> Just keep laughing, when you feel like crying I find a nice glass of wine and a huge bar of chocolate help!


...........just the one ?


----------



## AngelaWB

buffie said:


> ...........just the one ?


You haven't seen the size of the glass!!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Wahhhhhhh. I put a bottle of wine in the freezer whilst I went to water a friends plants..just remembered and now it's a wine icicle!! :incazzato::incazzato:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Wahhhhhhh. I put a bottle of wine in the freezer whilst I went to water a friends plants..just remembered and now it's a wine icicle!! :incazzato::incazzato:


Hope it de-frosts okay,will it still be alcoholic  :yikes: what a waste


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope it de-frosts okay,will it still be alcoholic  :yikes: what a waste


Seems to be ok, quite chilled!  guess it's a bit like when you freeze vodka! Two of my friends when it's their birthday, we have to drink vodka and that's always frozen in the freezer first! Ohhhh the morning after :yikes: that cat paw across your face is just the worse feeling ever!!!!

On another note, I'm feeling a bit anxious. You know I'm due to go away for 3 nights I'm really worried about leaving Riley and don't know what to do. I know he will be looked after and he will be on house arrest but I'm starting to think should I go or not


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Wahhhhhhh. I put a bottle of wine in the freezer whilst I went to water a friends plants..just remembered and now it's a wine icicle!! :incazzato::incazzato:


PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC - THIS IS PM MATERIAL - not what this IBD tbread is for.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Seems to be ok, quite chilled!  guess it's a bit like when you freeze vodka! Two of my friends when it's their birthday, we have to drink vodka and that's always frozen in the freezer first! Ohhhh the morning after :yikes: that cat paw across your face is just the worse feeling ever!!!!
> 
> On another note, I'm feeling a bit anxious. You know I'm due to go away for 3 nights I'm really worried about leaving Riley and don't know what to do. I know he will be looked after and he will be on house arrest but I'm starting to think should I go or not


What a worry , Is he still going to be on his drugs ? I could say to you ,don't be daft he will be fine,you need the break ect,all of which is probably true , but it isn't going to put your mind at rest is it.
I don't know what I would do I have to be honest .
I have Meeko booked in tomorrow with the vet ,he still isn't right,he's quiet , not really interested in anything and weirdly he's purring a lot,not a good sign I don't think.
He's eating/drinking ect okay and it has been hot again but I just feel something isn't right.
If he is okay tomorrow I can cancel as I don't want to stress him for nothing but I would rather have the app.and not need it.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What a worry , Is he still going to be on his drugs ? I could say to you ,don't be daft he will be fine,you need the break ect,all of which is probably true , but it isn't going to put your mind at rest is it.
> I don't know what I would do I have to be honest .
> I have Meeko booked in tomorrow with the vet ,he still isn't right,he's quiet , not really interested in anything and weirdly he's purring a lot,not a good sign I don't think.
> He's eating/drinking ect okay and it has been hot again but I just feel something isn't right.
> If he is okay tomorrow I can cancel as I don't want to stress him for nothing but I would rather have the app.and not need it.


By then he should just be on the chlorambucil once a week which is fine. I am sure he will be fine and I trust my friend to look after him..grrrrrrrr I have note decided but I still have some time before I can pull out....thank goodness my wine has thawed..need a glass I think!!

Poor Meeko, purring is not a good sign here either, especially when Riley sits and purrs my himself, I've read cats self soothe and purring is a sign of that. Hopefully he won't need the appointment and shows improvement tomorrow, let me know, I'm at work but will check in when I can..

Sending you a big glass of very cold wine..ibd is such a hard thing to get under control and whilst it will never be cured at least we can hope to get under control x


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> By then he should just be on the chlorambucil once a week which is fine. I am sure he will be fine and I trust my friend to look after him..grrrrrrrr I have note decided but I still have some time before I can pull out....thank goodness my wine has thawed..need a glass I think!!
> 
> Poor Meeko, purring is not a good sign here either, especially when Riley sits and purrs my himself, I've read cats self soothe and purring is a sign of that. Hopefully he won't need the appointment and shows improvement tomorrow, let me know, I'm at work but will check in when I can..
> 
> Sending you a big glass of very cold wine..ibd is such a hard thing to get under control and whilst it will never be cured at least we can hope to get under control x


I'll let you know how we get on tomorrow,hoping we don't need to go as there isn't really anything to see,its more a "feeling" he's just not right.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I'll let you know how we get on tomorrow,hoping we don't need to go as there isn't really anything to see,its more a "feeling" he's just not right.


I know that "feeling" wish I was closer would come round with my frozen wine


----------



## Tao2

KathinUK said:


> PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC - THIS IS PM MATERIAL - not what this IBD tbread is for.


Right really sorry guys, I know I should rise above this but I haven't got it in me.

I have been struggling to aid my IBD cat for many moons now, only to have my cat diagnosed with terminal liver disease 3 months ago. Throughout this traumatic time, this forum and this sticky in particular, have proved an immense help. Not just as a great source of knowledge and advice (which it is) but as a moral support to help me through the dark times. It is the sense of camaraderie (sp?) through the light hearted banter that does this. It makes this place a community not just a dry source of information (and sometimes wildly unscientific inaccurate advice).


----------



## buffie

I cancelled Meeko's appointment with the vet this morning.He seems brighter eating well and all well in the litter tray.I hope I did the right thing.Looking at him there is nothing to see it is just a "feeling" that something isn't right but with a different vet(Meeko's vet isn't on today) she wouldn't know what was "normal" and would think I was over anxious,that and the stress of going in the first place I felt it isn't in his best interest.
If he has to go to OOH so be it but he definitely seems better than he was.


----------



## Tao2

buffie said:


> I cancelled Meeko's appointment with the vet this morning.He seems brighter eating well and all well in the litter tray.I hope I did the right thing.Looking at him there is nothing to see it is just a "feeling" that something isn't right but with a different vet(Meeko's vet isn't on today) she wouldn't know what was "normal" and would think I was over anxious,that and the stress of going in the first place I felt it isn't in his best interest.
> If he has to go to OOH so be it but he definitely seems better than he was.


It does make such a different when the vet knows your animal. Last time I took Mittens to a vet that hadn't seen her because 'there was just something not right but I couldn't actually describe any specific symptoms....' I think vet thought I was a complete loon. Whereas regular vet just rolls his eyes and gets on with finding out what the problem is...

Fingers crossed Meeko is OK and not in need of OOH. Why do they ALWAYS wait for the weekend?


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> It does make such a different when the vet knows your animal. Last time I took Mittens to a vet that hadn't seen her because 'there was just something not right but I couldn't actually describe any specific symptoms....' I think vet thought I was a complete loon. Whereas regular vet just rolls his eyes and gets on with finding out what the problem is...
> 
> Fingers crossed Meeko is OK and not in need of OOH. Why do they ALWAYS wait for the weekend?


He has been a bit "off" for a day or 2 one minute he looks miserable the next he is tearing round the house like a thing possessed, he is no worse than he has been ,but you are right w/end looms and you go into over drive.He doesn't seem ill just not 100%


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I cancelled Meeko's appointment with the vet this morning.He seems brighter eating well and all well in the litter tray.I hope I did the right thing.Looking at him there is nothing to see it is just a "feeling" that something isn't right but with a different vet(Meeko's vet isn't on today) she wouldn't know what was "normal" and would think I was over anxious,that and the stress of going in the first place I felt it isn't in his best interest.
> If he has to go to OOH so be it but he definitely seems better than he was.


I would say better to see your own vet as he knows meeko and you..all crossed its just a blip!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> It does make such a different when the vet knows your animal. Last time I took Mittens to a vet that hadn't seen her because 'there was just something not right but I couldn't actually describe any specific symptoms....' I think vet thought I was a complete loon. Whereas regular vet just rolls his eyes and gets on with finding out what the problem is...
> 
> Fingers crossed Meeko is OK and not in need of OOH. Why do they ALWAYS wait for the weekend?


or they wait for a bank holiday!!


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> .......
> 
> I also think that there is not much known about feline ibd, *hence there is no cure* just managing through diet or meds or combination......


Who says that?

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He has been a bit "off" for a day or 2 one minute he looks miserable the next he is tearing round the house like a thing possessed, he is no worse than he has been ,but you are right w/end looms and you go into over drive.He doesn't seem ill just not 100%


How is Meeko this evening?? Hope he is feeling better, it's a lot cooler here tonight so hopefully should be cooler with you as well.

Riley is doing quite well at the moment, apart from one explosion  dare I say it, this has been the longest I think, not counted  that I have not had to clean his bum!! You know that now that will change!!

But must be getting on for a month! He still has his "down" moments when he sits haunched or is not interested in much..

Interestingly I was speaking to some one today who has ibs and was comparing the symptoms he has to Riley's! I told him to try kangaroo!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> How is Meeko this evening?? Hope he is feeling better, it's a lot cooler here tonight so hopefully should be cooler with you as well.
> 
> Riley is doing quite well at the moment, apart from one explosion  dare I say it, this has been the longest I think, not counted  that I have not had to clean his bum!! You know that now that will change!!
> 
> But must be getting on for a month! He still has his "down" moments when he sits haunched or is not interested in much..
> 
> Interestingly I was speaking to some one today who has ibs and was comparing the symptoms he has to Riley's! I told him to try kangaroo!!


Pleased to read that Riley is doing well still,the odd down time and explosive bum aside, hope you havnt jinxed it 
Meeko is a bit brighter he is eating well,did you say that sometimes Riley has an increased appetite when he has a flare up or did I imagine that.
As you know Meekos appetite is pretty poor usually so that along with the "purring" may point to him having a flare up.Will just have to monitor him and take him to be seen if I feel it will help.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Pleased to read that Riley is doing well still,the odd down time and explosive bum aside, hope you havnt jinxed it
> Meeko is a bit brighter he is eating well,did you say that sometimes Riley has an increased appetite when he has a flare up or did I imagine that.
> As you know Meekos appetite is pretty poor usually so that along with the "purring" may point to him having a flare up.Will just have to monitor him and take him to be seen if I feel it will help.


Increased ravenous hunger is a major clue he is going to have a flare up. Riley eats well on the kangaroo as you know, but when he is in this hunger he tries to go through the bin, jumps up on the work tops looking for food and he also hunts food outside  his whole world is taken over by the "hunger" he has not had one of them episodes for a while now.........

It does sound like Meeko might be going into a flare up, not sure if would work for vomiting type ibd, but from what I have read does not discriminate in controlling ibd in general, would it be worth asking about the chlorambucil for Meeko on a low dosage if he is in a flare up. I say this as well due to steroids not working for him and he can't have metronidazole...


----------



## AngelaWB

Hope Meeko is ok soon


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Increased ravenous hunger is a major clue he is going to have a flare up. Riley eats well on the kangaroo as you know, but when he is in this hunger he tries to go through the bin, jumps up on the work tops looking for food and he also hunts food outside  his whole world is taken over by the "hunger" he has not had one of them episodes for a while now.........
> 
> It does sound like Meeko might be going into a flare up, not sure if would work for vomiting type ibd, but from what I have read does not discriminate in controlling ibd in general, would it be worth asking about the chlorambucil for Meeko on a low dosage if he is in a flare up. I say this as well due to steroids not working for him and he can't have metronidazole...


He has never had an increase in appetite before so will have to wait to see if there is a connection, he is spark out now on top of the wardrobe ,having just spent the last 1/2 hour in a game of "who will blink first" with his fox cub friend  She lies on the shed roof when he is in his extension run.


----------



## buffie

AngelaWB said:


> Hope Meeko is ok soon


Thanks ,I sometimes think it is "paranoid slave syndrome ",when he gets to the vets he is rolling about on the floor and being a complete tart


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He has never had an increase in appetite before so will have to wait to see if there is a connection, he is spark out now on top of the wardrobe ,having just spent the last 1/2 hour in a game of "who will blink first" with his fox cub friend  She lies on the shed roof when he is in his extension run.


Who won  Riley is currently hunting moths..he eats them also :w00t: I keep saying to him that I have no idea how I'm going to get pumpkin into the moths first :nonod:



buffie said:


> Thanks ,I sometimes think it is "paranoid slave syndrome ",*when he gets to the vets he is rolling about on the floor and being a complete tart*


Learned behaviour ?? :nono: 

I think we all watch for the little signs..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Who won  .


I broke up their concentration when I took the food down for her and her litter mates  I'm not just a cat slave


----------



## AngelaWB

buffie said:


> Thanks ,I sometimes think it is "paranoid slave syndrome ",when he gets to the vets he is rolling about on the floor and being a complete tart


I think sometimes they just want to be centre of attention lol


----------



## buffie

AngelaWB said:


> I think sometimes they just want to be centre of attention lol


The weird thing is Meeko had real behaviour probs as a kitten ,but he has never played up at the vets,to the point of making me look like I was exaggerating.That is until we had a behaviourist consultation at home


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Who says that?
> 
> Kath


Ok, kath..show me with web links as proof where it states that feline IBD can be cured then please..


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok, kath..show me with web links as proof where it states that feline IBD can be cured then please..


I'd be happy to if you're serious nicolaa - they're all related to a holistic as opposed to an allopathic approach.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> I'd be happy to if you're serious nicolaa - they're all related to a holistic as opposed to an allopathic approach.
> 
> Kath


Yes show me a website that says ibd can be cured.


----------



## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Yes show me a website that says ibd can be cured.


Ok then a few .... feline ibd - cat nutrition

From Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment which concludes:

"What is important is that a cat has a healthy mucosal flora in the gut, and a species-appropriate diet. By optimising these two factors we give the cat the best chance of repairing the inflamed gut. So, a restorative diet and the restoration of the bowel flora are two key components of helping a cat with IBD.

"There is a definite connection between the functioning of the gut and the functioning of the rest of the body.¹? When food is not digested and absorbed properly, our cats suffer from multiple nutritional deficiencies. Inflamed guts become a source of toxins, rather than a source of nourishment. Healing and sealing the leaky gut is the key to improving health. The gut has great capacity for repair when fed a species-appropriate diet."

Saving Alistair: How Lyn Thomson Helped Stop IBD 11,000 Miles Away

Duke's Story: Inflammatory Bowel Disease
which concludes:

"Inflammatory bowel disease, with its attendant symptoms of diarrhea and vomiting, is the body's rebellion against trying to process foods it was never built to eat. A cat can never be a successful herbivore or omnivore and will never win any battle against digestive illness without consuming the enzyme-rich, meat-based food he or she was biologically engineered to ingest. Cats with IBD are desperate for biologically available nutrition while their increasingly exhausted bodies stay busy violently rejecting the inappropriate food that is moving through their compromised digestive tracts. It's an unhappy combination. But it's entirely fixable."

There are many accounts of cats recovering fully in WholeCatHealth Yahoo Groups and Holisticat Forum.

Kath


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## nicolaa123

KathinUK said:


> Ok then a few .... feline ibd - cat nutrition
> 
> *From the site states in many many cases not ALL cases, plus as I have read if the cat responds to a change in food alone it's more of a case of food allergy rather than ibd..plus this only gives the writers one case of an ibd cat.
> *
> From Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment which concludes:
> 
> "What is important is that a cat has a healthy mucosal flora in the gut, and a species-appropriate diet. By optimising these two factors we give the cat the best chance of repairing the inflamed gut. So, a restorative diet and the restoration of the bowel flora are two key components of helping a cat with IBD.
> 
> "There is a definite connection between the functioning of the gut and the functioning of the rest of the body.¹? When food is not digested and absorbed properly, our cats suffer from multiple nutritional deficiencies. Inflamed guts become a source of toxins, rather than a source of nourishment. Healing and sealing the leaky gut is the key to improving health. The gut has great capacity for repair when fed a species-appropriate diet."
> 
> *i have linked to that site before, very good information but where does it state that ibd can be cured??*
> 
> Saving Alistair: How Lyn Thomson Helped Stop IBD 11,000 Miles Away
> 
> *Does not stated the cat had diagnosed IBD, plus again could be a food intolerance issue*
> 
> Duke's Story: Inflammatory Bowel Disease
> which concludes:
> 
> "Inflammatory bowel disease, with its attendant symptoms of diarrhea and vomiting, is the body's rebellion against trying to process foods it was never built to eat. A cat can never be a successful herbivore or omnivore and will never win any battle against digestive illness without consuming the enzyme-rich, meat-based food he or she was biologically engineered to ingest. Cats with IBD are desperate for biologically available nutrition while their increasingly exhausted bodies stay busy violently rejecting the inappropriate food that is moving through their compromised digestive tracts. It's an unhappy combination. But it's entirely fixable."
> 
> *whilst there are these stories it does not mean that there is a cure for ibd each case is very different and as I have stated, if the cat responds to a new diet alone then this points to a food allergy/intolerance. I think a raw diet is always the best choice to try for a cat with symptoms like ibd, but I would never ever suggest that this is the cure for ibd , Riley's diarreah has been stopped by using pumpkin, is this a magic cure? No he still has IBD we are just controlling the illness.*
> 
> There are many accounts of cats recovering fully in WholeCatHealth Yahoo Groups and Holisticat Forum.
> 
> Kath


Sorry kath, but there is not enough evidence there to state all cases of IBD can be cured..some links of my own..

Raw Food Information. Raw food helps, yep agree!

Fighting Feline IBD with both a Traditional and Holistic Approach | Natural Pet Store Blog | Best cat & dog treats, food, & supplements review | OnlyNaturalPet.com. From the site

IBD is manageable; but not yet curable. IBD is a chronic disease; there are no magic pills, no magic diet or food, and no magic alternative treatments. There are however many safe and effective treatments that stabilize your pets condition and greatly help in their recovery. Make sure to always discuss alternative and all-natural therapies with your vet. Your pet may have several health conditions where using certain treatments could worsen recovery. Always obtain all-natural products from a reputable source. Many all-natural products that are safe for human consumption may be too strong or not safe at all in high doses for pets. Even if it may be cheaper to buy the human version, they could contain additives that are potentially harmful or damaging to your pets recovery. This isnt the case with every product but thats why its better to discuss these with your vet to be sure.

Inflammatory Bowel Disease in Cats

How is IBD treated?
Most cats with true IBD require medication in addition to dietary management to have complete resolution of symptoms. If dietary management alone results in complete improvement a diagnosis of IBD caused by an adverse reaction to food is made.

You see there is one thing giving information that can help and yes diet is a factor of IBD but its not the only factor of IBD. The vet I saw is a leading vet in internal medicine, she is a specialist in internal medicine and she told me there is no cure for IBD just ways to control the symptoms. Some cats that have been fed raw all their life still get IBD how is that possible? But to say IBD can be cured full stop is a sweeping statement that is just not true..

Edit: I've just spent the last hour searching umpteen holistic sites with regards to IBD and not one suggested that it could be cured. They all said it can be managed with different herbs, seaweed, ancupuncture etc, but not one mentioned this could be cured!! I won't link them all as I link enough as it is 

Kath I'm not convinced at all. I think there are various ways to manage and control, but as yet there is no cure!!


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## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> Kath I'm not convinced at all. I think there are various ways to manage and control, but as yet there is no cure!!



Thanx for the linx nicolaa - I'll have a read tomorrow when I have more time.

I do think its good that a wide variety of linx/info are available on this thread to anyone seeking help with bowel inflammation.

Ultimately it doesn't matter that much whether anyone thinks its curable or not - nature is a wonderful healer ... given the chance I'm convinced it will do so. 
But I think this is the basic difference between allopathic and holistic approaches - holistic seeks to build the immune system whereas allopathic seeks to suppress it. "Ne'er the twain shall meet" 

However another angle I forgot to mention is that employed by the pharmaceutical drug Naltrexone. Taken in very low doses, clinical trials on humans have shown its immence benefits with IBD and MS - it temporarily [for about 6hours per day] inhibits the immune system which consequently bounces back stronger.
Its an off label drug generally known as LDN. Lots of info on line.

Kath


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## nicolaa123

Thanx for the linx nicolaa - I'll have a read tomorrow when I have more time.

I do think its good that a wide variety of linx/info are available on this thread to anyone seeking help with bowel inflammation.

Ultimately it doesn't matter that much whether anyone thinks its curable or not - nature is a wonderful healer ... given the chance I'm convinced it will do so. 
But I think this is the basic difference between allopathic and holistic approaches - holistic seeks to build the immune system whereas allopathic seeks to suppress it. "Ne'er the twain shall meet"

However another angle I forgot to mention is that employed by the pharmaceutical drug Naltrexone. Taken in very low doses, clinical trials on humans have shown its immence benefits with IBD and MS - it temporarily [for about 6hours per day] inhibits the immune system which consequently bounces back stronger.
Its an off label drug generally known as LDN. Lots of info on line.

Kath

I actually do think its important whether there is a cure or not (I thought you did with your question to me) its all about the right information and managing the symptoms in a realistic way, which is all I have tried with the links to prove.

Plus the holistic approach sites I have read do not state a cure and i have read a lot this evening. As said im happy to read all info on many ways to deal with ibd and am always open to read and research, but we have a duty of care to state the facts, which is, it can not be currently cured.

I would have given anything in your links to be proven wrong but im not. I will battle this with riley with the help of my vet and ny own research.

I have no more to say on the whole it can be cured subject now..


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## KathinUK

nicolaa123 said:


> ......I have no more to say on the whole it can be cured subject now..


You're very welcome to the last word on it nicolaa, but before you speak it, please try to ensure its the right one.

I'm perfectly happy in the knowledge that bowel inflammation is definitely something that can be permanently healed ie. cured.

Now I have to get on helping as best I can with Sally's lymphoma - there have been so many cancer kitties on PF who sadly have died recently.

Kath


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## nicolaa123

Morning!! Hope everyone had a good weekend..

Just quick update on Riley, he seems to be well at the moment. I am really hoping that when he has his weight check he has gained a bit of weight and that his bloods come back all ok for his liver enzyme. 

Hope everyone else's little ones are doing well..


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## buffie

Morning all......
So good the gorgeous Riley is still doing well,paws crossed for a weight gain for him.
Meeko seems to be a lot brighter.When I see him acting normally I can see I was right he really wasn't feeling great, hope it continues 
Hope all the other furbies are starting the week well


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## Polly G

Hi everyone! a quick up date on Jasper. He became unwell on Wednesday and was hospitalised on Thursday as his IBD had flared up. Unfortunately as he is also diabetic this had a knock on effect because he wouldn't eat, therefore couldn't have his insulin. I took him home about 9pm on Thursday and although he is better than he was, can't quite put my finger on it, but he is still not his usual self.

I am hoping he can recover more over the next few days but I feel each time he has a bad session I lose a little bit more of him.

Paws crossed for a better week!


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## buffie

Polly G said:


> Hi everyone! a quick up date on Jasper. He became unwell on Wednesday and was hospitalised on Thursday as his IBD had flared up. Unfortunately as he is also diabetic this had a knock on effect because he wouldn't eat, therefore couldn't have his insulin. I took him home about 9pm on Thursday and although he is better than he was, can't quite put my finger on it, but he is still not his usual self.
> 
> I am hoping he can recover more over the next few days but I feel each time he has a bad session I lose a little bit more of him.
> 
> Paws crossed for a better week!


Sorry to read about Jasper,balancing diabetes and IBD must be difficult I had a diabetic cat so can relate to your problems. Sending Jasper some healing vibes , hope he continues to improve.


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## nicolaa123

Polly G said:


> Hi everyone! a quick up date on Jasper. He became unwell on Wednesday and was hospitalised on Thursday as his IBD had flared up. Unfortunately as he is also diabetic this had a knock on effect because he wouldn't eat, therefore couldn't have his insulin. I took him home about 9pm on Thursday and although he is better than he was, can't quite put my finger on it, but he is still not his usual self.
> 
> I am hoping he can recover more over the next few days but I feel each time he has a bad session I lose a little bit more of him.
> 
> Paws crossed for a better week!


sorry to hear jasper is un-well again, I hope he improves soon. Its such a worry when they don't eat..

I think the weather is not helping as its been hot then cooler, hot then cooler..

Sending some positve vibes your way..x


----------



## AngelaWB

Polly G said:


> Hi everyone! a quick up date on Jasper. He became unwell on Wednesday and was hospitalised on Thursday as his IBD had flared up. Unfortunately as he is also diabetic this had a knock on effect because he wouldn't eat, therefore couldn't have his insulin. I took him home about 9pm on Thursday and although he is better than he was, can't quite put my finger on it, but he is still not his usual self.
> 
> I am hoping he can recover more over the next few days but I feel each time he has a bad session I lose a little bit more of him.
> 
> Paws crossed for a better week!


Ohh poor Jasper, hope he's ok soon.

Doris had a slight set back, bit sloppy on Saturday morning, but it seems to have been a minor blip and she's ok again now. Just ordered another batch of Natural Instinct raw food which should arrive tomorrow, so that will cheer all the cats up!


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## buffie

AngelaWB said:


> Ohh poor Jasper, hope he's ok soon.
> 
> Doris had a slight set back, bit sloppy on Saturday morning, but it seems to have been a minor blip and she's ok again now. Just ordered another batch of Natural Instinct raw food which should arrive tomorrow, so that will cheer all the cats up!


It is such a worry the minute there is any change from the "norm" we immediately assume it is a flare up/set back,sometimes it is simply an off day   Hope all stays well.


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## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Ohh poor Jasper, hope he's ok soon.
> 
> Doris had a slight set back, bit sloppy on Saturday morning, but it seems to have been a minor blip and she's ok again now. Just ordered another batch of Natural Instinct raw food which should arrive tomorrow, so that will cheer all the cats up!


Really hope it's just a one off..how many cats do you have?


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> It is such a worry the minute there is any change from the "norm" we immediately assume it is a flare up/set back,sometimes it is simply an off day   Hope all stays well.


They certainly keep is on our toes!

Riley this morning had a nibble at his breakfast but got settled on the bed as I was going to work, not unusual for him. But came home (soaked to my skin) and he has hardly eaten any of his breakfast at all!

Currently he has not interest in the dinner I've just put down..just given in and put one biscuit on top and now he is eating his dinner  wrapped round his paw I am!!


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## nicolaa123

I am currently kicking myself and feel so stupid!!

Riley was given the metronidazole on 24 July, there was some question over the amount to give per body weight, which I thought odd at the time as he has has before and has 1/8 twice a day. Vet even asked if he would have the liquid version and I said tablets are easier, again I thought odd as she knows he has had them before. 

Anyway was just looking at his notes again and it states to give him 1/4 tablet twice a day for ten days! I did think when I got the tablets there was quite a lot. Just rang the vets, she is not there, but she will get my message tomorrow. Seems quite a lot to give which has now dawned on me why she was saying about any side effects to call them straight away!!

I've now given him the correct dose for tonight and my vet should call me tomorrow as I will probably have to pick some more up.

The only saving grace is that his blood tests are not due until the 21 so in the window so to speak..

I could really kick myself right now!


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am currently kicking myself and feel so stupid!!
> 
> Riley was given the metronidazole on 24 July, there was some question over the amount to give per body weight, which I thought odd at the time as he has has before and has 1/8 twice a day. Vet even asked if he would have the liquid version and I said tablets are easier, again I thought odd as she knows he has had them before.
> 
> Anyway was just looking at his notes again and it states to give him 1/4 tablet twice a day for ten days! I did think when I got the tablets there was quite a lot. Just rang the vets, she is not there, but she will get my message tomorrow. Seems quite a lot to give which has now dawned on me why she was saying about any side effects to call them straight away!!
> 
> I've now given him the correct dose for tonight and my vet should call me tomorrow as I will probably have to pick some more up.
> 
> The only saving grace is that his blood tests are not due until the 21 so in the window so to speak..
> 
> I could really kick myself right now!


Ooops who's a twit  Mind you your head was probably still so full of scary thoughts that you were not really listening


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Ooops who's a twit  Mind you your head was probably still so full of scary thoughts that you were not really listening


I am a twit!! Too much happening at that time I think..all I kept thinking was why is she worrying about it when he has had before!!

Now of course I'm watching like a hawk for any signs of side effects..it's a big dose for a little boy..

But if it helps his bacteria, then I will give it, I can't imagine how I would be if his liver is affected now due to this horrible ibd :mad5:


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## AngelaWB

Oh poor Riley, hope he doesn't have any side effects.

I've got 4 cats, they're in my signature at the bottom of the post along with those I've lost. 

Doris is 7, had her 2 years, Pixie Bob ex breeding cat who needed rehoming
Mr Snuggles is 7, had him 2 years from a rescue, Snuggles by name and by nature lol.
Oscar is 11, he was born to Snowy, a stray at my horses field, mum and son came home with me to live, Snowy died a couple of years ago, vet reckons she was about 18. Oscar thinks all other cats are the devil himself but he loves my dogs.
Goldie is approx 15 and used to be a stray at my field, I brought her home with me when someone poisoned Felix, my black and white field cat, this left her alone and I couldn't do that to her. She's now a very settled house cat.

Used to have Timmy (cross eyed, deformed ears, FIV+, no teeth, little legs but the most gorgeous cat you could come across), he died 2 years ago, he had cancer. He turned up at my garden, wormy, hungry, injured - I caught him and cleaned his wounds and he never left the garden, eventually he came into the house and when I found out he was FIV+, he stayed in. When I lost him I had him cremated, I've got his ashes at the side of me along with a poem I wrote and his photo.

Also had Harry, he was the first cat to arrive at my field, long haired black, he was gorgeous, was with me about 12 years before someone knocked him over, I was devastated. Smokey, another long haired stray, joined the field clan soon after Harry, she died of old age.

So over the past few years I've been honoured with the company of a number of cats, had 9 at one point, all strays and rescues. Oscar is the only kitten I've ever had!


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## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> Oh poor Riley, hope he doesn't have any side effects.
> 
> I've got 4 cats, they're in my signature at the bottom of the post along with those I've lost.
> 
> Doris is 7, had her 2 years, Pixie Bob ex breeding cat who needed rehoming
> Mr Snuggles is 7, had him 2 years from a rescue, Snuggles by name and by nature lol.
> Oscar is 11, he was born to Snowy, a stray at my horses field, mum and son came home with me to live, Snowy died a couple of years ago, vet reckons she was about 18. Oscar thinks all other cats are the devil himself but he loves my dogs.
> Goldie is approx 15 and used to be a stray at my field, I brought her home with me when someone poisoned Felix, my black and white field cat, this left her alone and I couldn't do that to her. She's now a very settled house cat.
> 
> Used to have Timmy (cross eyed, deformed ears, FIV+, no teeth, little legs but the most gorgeous cat you could come across), he died 2 years ago, he had cancer. He turned up at my garden, wormy, hungry, injured - I caught him and cleaned his wounds and he never left the garden, eventually he came into the house and when I found out he was FIV+, he stayed in. When I lost him I had him cremated, I've got his ashes at the side of me along with a poem I wrote and his photo.
> 
> Also had Harry, he was the first cat to arrive at my field, long haired black, he was gorgeous, was with me about 12 years before someone knocked him over, I was devastated. Smokey, another long haired stray, joined the field clan soon after Harry, she died of old age.
> 
> So over the past few years I've been honoured with the company of a number of cats, had 9 at one point, all strays and rescues. Oscar is the only kitten I've ever had!


Wow..you have a big heart! I took on a stray once..billy, he was pure black a real hunter  we was about to get him done (different time then, let the boys out before their operations) day before he left an adult rabbit by the back door and we never saw him again..he was a beautiful cat..we lived near farms so think he was a farm cat.

You are so right we are honoured to have cats and we are special to be owned by ones that need us..I often think about how Riley's life would be if I was not owned by him..would he get the same treatment and care..


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## AngelaWB

So true Nicola, Riley is very lucky, as you say, things could have been so different.

I felt honoured that the cats who came to live with me chose me and chose to stay. People say feral cats can never be tamed, I couldn't get near the ones at the field at first, Felix took 2 years before I could touch him, but once I did it was like the flood gates opening, he became a real lap cat. I'd drive up to the field gate and they'd all come running down to meet me, that's if they weren't all sitting in a row just inside the field. The people who live in the hamlet where my horses are used to find them so funny, they'd laugh at them following me around the field etc. 

Goldie who now lives at home, I used to touch her about every 6 months, she was very feral - but I caught her, put her in the cat pen and used to go and sit in there with her each evening. Now she sits on the back of the sofa with her feet on my shoulder purring down my ear, she head butts me if I ignore her.

My neighbours think I'm the village cat lady, especially as their 2 cats are currently doing their best to move in too!! They only have to hear my voice or hear my car coming and they come racing over the fence

Yes I feel very honoured, my animals keep me grounded and cheer me up on even the hardest days lol. They're rewarded with being fed, loved, cared for and receive regular Reiki


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## Ianthi

nicolaa123 said:


> .But if it helps his bacteria, then I will give it, I can't imagine how I would be if his liver is affected now due to this horrible ibd :mad5:


Gosh Nicola, I've just realised I've forgotten to mention this (how I've no idea since I've advised it so many times before) but it's quite common to prescribe a liver supplement (milk thistle/SAMe) in cases of IBD/pancreatitis owing to the inherent risks (to liver) involved. Given that Riley's levels are already elevated I would enquire about one next time you speak. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised no-one has mentioned it before.


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## nicolaa123

Ianthi said:


> Gosh Nicola, I've just realised I've forgotten to mention this (how I've no idea since I've advised it so many times before) but it's quite common to prescribe a liver supplement (milk thistle/SAMe) in cases of IBD/pancreatitis owing to the inherent risks (to liver) involved. Given that Riley's levels are already elevated I would enquire about one next time you speak. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised no-one has mentioned it before.


I will ask next time about that, thanks


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## Tao2

Mittens has started mewing this afternoon. Am panicking about it. And as I write this, she has just been horrible to Fluff Beast who did absolutely nothing to deserve it. In between mewing and hissing she has been eating, purring, playing in the garden and playing chase with Fluff Beast. Am completely nonplussed. And worried and of course vet is on holiday........


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## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Mittens has started mewing this afternoon. Am panicking about it. And as I write this, she has just been horrible to Fluff Beast who did absolutely nothing to deserve it. In between mewing and hissing she has been eating, purring, playing in the garden and playing chase with Fluff Beast. Am completely nonplussed. And worried and of course vet is on holiday........


Maybe it's an off day? Just a thought do you have one of them feliway plug in things might just help her relax a bit if she is feeling out of sorts. Is her behaviour a sign of her liver illness? Poor fluff beast baring the brunt of it..needs a medal that one!!

Hope it's just an off day for her and things settle down, how is her eating? I can't remember if she liked the kanagroo or not I can send more to you for her..

And just typical for the vet to be on holiday..


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## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Mittens has started mewing this afternoon. Am panicking about it. And as I write this, she has just been horrible to Fluff Beast who did absolutely nothing to deserve it. In between mewing and hissing she has been eating, purring, playing in the garden and playing chase with Fluff Beast. Am completely nonplussed. And worried and of course vet is on holiday........


Sorry to read that Mittens is not on top form as Nicola has said she may just be having an off day.I know with Meeko he seems go from feeling fine to feeling crap and back to fine again in the space of a few hours.
Sods law that your vet is on holiday  hope she is okay


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## Tao2

Looks like it was sage advice from you 2. She woke me up a couple of times mewing at me in the night (was barely asleep anyway 'cos I was fretting about her). Then she seemed fine this morning. 

Took her to vets anyway. You can imagine the scenario: 
me: 'my cat keeps miaowing...'
new vet: 'and?'
me: 'well she was a bit grumpy with her brother....'
new vet: 'well I can't find anything wrong with her (thinks: oh this must be that fabled neurotic mad cat woman....), £20 please.... '


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Looks like it was sage advice from you 2. She woke me up a couple of times mewing at me in the night (was barely asleep anyway 'cos I was fretting about her). Then she seemed fine this morning.
> 
> Took her to vets anyway. You can imagine the scenario:
> me: 'my cat keeps miaowing...'
> new vet: 'and?'
> me: 'well she was a bit grumpy with her brother....'
> new vet: 'well I can't find anything wrong with her (thinks: oh this must be that fabled neurotic mad cat woman....), £20 please.... '


Oh that did give me a giggle..bet they share that over a coffee at break time..one mad cat lady bought her cat in for miaowing 

Pleased to hear tho that she is better this morning :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I just spoke to my vet and I have to pick up some more metronidazole so I can give him the correct 10 day course  I also spoke to her about his slight inappetence for the last couple of days, he is still eating about 150g -200g but not his normal amount. She has put this down to the metronidazole and has said to monitor for now. I also spoke to her about his blood tests and if there was a sedative I can give. She said that oral sedatives don't really work for cats, but to only feed him in the morning, we are going in the evening so if needed they can give him a little bit of gas before taking the bloods..which is better than having it done under a general!!


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## nicolaa123

Forgot to add, I went for my b12 injection today and they are now talking about me going every 10 weeks rather than every 12 weeks to help my extreme tiredness.

Just had a call from the nurse and they want to test my bloods to check my levels..so riley has his bloods on the 21st and I have my bloods done on the
22nd......talk about weird!! Just hope we don't get muddled up


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## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Looks like it was sage advice from you 2. She woke me up a couple of times mewing at me in the night (was barely asleep anyway 'cos I was fretting about her). Then she seemed fine this morning.
> 
> Took her to vets anyway. You can imagine the scenario:
> me: 'my cat keeps miaowing...'
> new vet: 'and?'
> me: 'well she was a bit grumpy with her brother....'
> new vet: 'well I can't find anything wrong with her (thinks: oh this must be that fabled neurotic mad cat woman....), £20 please.... '


Ha ha love it  ,but who cares if you looked neurotic we all know what it is called,its being observant  What sounds like over reaction to some to us is just par for the course when you don't know what is connected and what isn't.
So pleased to read that Mittens seems fine today


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh that did give me a giggle..bet they share that over a coffee at break time..one mad cat lady bought her cat in for miaowing
> 
> Pleased to hear tho that she is better this morning :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> I just spoke to my vet and I have to pick up some more metronidazole so I can give him the correct 10 day course  I also spoke to her about his slight inappetence for the last couple of days, he is still eating about 150g -200g but not his normal amount. She has put this down to the metronidazole and has said to monitor for now.* I also spoke to her about his blood tests and if there was a sedative I can give. She said that oral sedatives don't really work for cats,* but to only feed him in the morning, we are going in the evening so if needed they can give him a little bit of gas before taking the bloods..which is better than having it done under a general!!


Have you ever tried rescue remedy on Riley,I used to use it when Meeko was in his narky stage and it seemed to calm him down.
I used the one with an alcohol base as I just rubbed it in to the thinly haired area in front of his ears but you can buy (on line) a non alcohol version.

Our Products | Bach Rescue Remedy Pet

As for oral sedatives I'm surprised that she didn't suggest ACP (unless on medical grounds  )we used that on the semi-feral in the early days before he trusted us.It really took the prickly edge of him.

Hope your blood tests are okay,did you mention to the nurse that your tiredness could be down to too much time spent on PF


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Have you ever tried rescue remedy on Riley,I used to use it when Meeko was in his narky stage and it seemed to calm him down.
> I used the one with an alcohol base as I just rubbed it in to the thinly haired area in front of his ears but you can buy (on line) a non alcohol version.
> 
> Our Products | Bach Rescue Remedy Pet
> 
> As for oral sedatives I'm surprised that she didn't suggest ACP (unless on medical grounds  )we used that on the semi-feral in the early days before he trusted us.It really took the prickly edge of him.
> 
> Hope your blood tests are okay,did you mention to the nurse that your tiredness could be down to too much time spent on PF


I will look at the rescue remedy..she just said that the sedative would not be enough as did not work that well on cats, she said a bit of gas would help if they need to..

Hmmmmmm too much late night time on pf..


----------



## AngelaWB

Tao2 said:


> Looks like it was sage advice from you 2. She woke me up a couple of times mewing at me in the night (was barely asleep anyway 'cos I was fretting about her). Then she seemed fine this morning.
> 
> Took her to vets anyway. You can imagine the scenario:
> me: 'my cat keeps miaowing...'
> new vet: 'and?'
> me: 'well she was a bit grumpy with her brother....'
> new vet: 'well I can't find anything wrong with her (thinks: oh this must be that fabled neurotic mad cat woman....), £20 please.... '


Hee hee hee! I know the feeling. Like when I went to the vets and said one of my cats looked depressed lol

Another thing to try as well as Bach Remedy is Valerian, I just put drops on the cats bedding and it helps them to de-stress. With the Bach Remedy if I can't put it directly into their mouths, I put a couple of drops on their ears so they wash their ears and ingest it.

Glad Mittens has improved, what a cute name


----------



## nicolaa123

I've been so worried all day with Riley off his food..even tho I spoke with my vet and she said could be the antibiotics..Riley has not eaten half of what he normally eats 

Until half an hour ago and he scoffed a whole bowl full :thumbup1: he is now having a good wash on my lap!!

I swear this boy will turn me grey!!


----------



## AngelaWB

He's just winding you up Nicola  Glad he's eaten though.


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> He's just winding you up Nicola  Glad he's eaten though.


Well it continues..hardly ate breakfast, a small meal this evening..but I am wondering if I am worrying unnesscary as he is eating the recommended amount, so maybe it's a good sign that all the food is being used and he does not feel the need to overeat


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well it continues..hardly ate breakfast, a small meal this evening..but I am wondering if I am worrying unnesscary as he is eating the recommended amount, so maybe it's a good sign that all the food is being used and he does not feel the need to overeat


I hope Mr R is okay,you know you could be right in thinking that he is eating what he needs now instead of overeating and still not feeling full. How does he seem in himself ,is he still happy and litter tray action okay
Its a shame your vet wasn't a bit closer so that you could weigh Riley more regularly .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I hope Mr R is okay,you know you could be right in thinking that he is eating what he needs now instead of overeating and still not feeling full. How does he seem in himself ,is he still happy and litter tray action okay
> Its a shame your vet wasn't a bit closer so that you could weigh Riley more regularly .


He is fine in himself attacking me as usual  we had a good play before work on his scratching post! Tray wise, had a lovely poo when I came home from work all firm no sloppy bits 

I would take him for weigh in, but it's the stress factor..I can get an idea on my scales and the look and feel to a degree.. He is back on the 21st anyway so will get weighed then. He is eating "enough" just less than before, am also thinking does not help I have given in and put a biscuit on top of his dinner :frown2:

I'm due to order some more food..I will stick with the kangaroo, but in two minds (again) whether to order some biscuits, but I worry with just biscuits I won't be able to get the extra fibre in him with the pumpkin, which I think has really helped with his poo!

Round and round and round we go :skep:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He is fine in himself attacking me as usual  we had a good play before work on his scratching post! Tray wise, had a lovely poo when I came home from work all firm no sloppy bits
> 
> I would take him for weigh in, but it's the stress factor..I can get an idea on my scales and the look and feel to a degree.. He is back on the 21st anyway so will get weighed then. He is eating "enough" just less than before, am also thinking does not help I have given in and put a biscuit on top of his dinner :frown2:
> 
> I'm due to order some more food..I will stick with the kangaroo, but in two minds (again) whether to order some biscuits, but I worry with just biscuits I won't be able to get the extra fibre in him with the pumpkin, which I think has really helped with his poo!
> 
> Round and round and round we go :skep:


Its a bl**dy nightmare is it not  If you try to stick with grain free biscuits he might be okay ,Meeko has half meat half dry only because he wont eat enough wet.
Did you ever get an explanation about the "missing polyp ?"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its a bl**dy nightmare is it not  If you try to stick with grain free biscuits he might be okay ,Meeko has half meat half dry only because he wont eat enough wet.
> Did you ever get an explanation about the "missing polyp ?"


I have not asked as yet, I will when I see her tho!

He is now scoffing away again at a bowl of food..maybe I am reading too much into it, after all for a small boy that was eating the amount he did was not right! Maybe it's a sign all is better, that's the thing it's just so blinking hard this ibd!!

The main worry with the biscuits is the diarrhoea and dehydration. It did make his poo very hard, I did speak with polly about the polyp (not sue why but that made me laugh) she said it looked like a prolapse and when I see it to push it back in, if it did not go back in naturally..potentially cause by his diarrhoea and straining..

He looks so well at the moment has a shining coat, not all gappy..so maybe it's me just reading more into it, after all he is eating enough.

I would like to keep him on wet, but I'm not adverse to giving him some dry if needed, but he is a biscuit monster and I fear if he has dry on a regular basis I won't be able to feed him any wet..

Have I said I hate ibd ??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have not asked as yet, I will when I see her tho!
> 
> He is now scoffing away again at a bowl of food..maybe I am reading too much into it, after all for a small boy that was eating the amount he did was not right! Maybe it's a sign all is better, that's the thing it's just so blinking hard this ibd!!
> 
> The main worry with the biscuits is the diarrhoea and dehydration. It did make his poo very hard, I did speak with polly about the polyp (not sue why but that made me laugh) she said it looked like a prolapse and when I see it to push it back in, if it did not go back in naturally..potentially cause by his diarrhoea and straining..
> 
> He looks so well at the moment has a shining coat, not all gappy..so maybe it's me just reading more into it, after all he is eating enough.
> 
> I would like to keep him on wet, but I'm not adverse to giving him some dry if needed, but he is a biscuit monster and I fear if he has dry on a regular basis I won't be able to feed him any wet..
> 
> *Have I said I hate ibd *??


You and me both  .
It is a hellish balancing act getting the food in and at the same time trying to ensure it doesn't cause any upset  Have *I* said I hate IBD


----------



## nicolaa123

He is eating another bowl with no care in the world!! If only they knew eh??

Hope mr m is ok..


----------



## AngelaWB

One of my cats eats very little and is very light. I took him to the vet and they said he was fine. To monitor his weight though I bought a Weight Watchers digital scales, I weigh myself (yikes), then weigh myself again holding Oscar, then take one away from the other. It gives me an indication if he's increasing/decreasing in weight. Won't be as accurate as the vets scales, but it does give you an idea.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He is eating another bowl with no care in the world!! If only they knew eh??
> 
> Hope mr m is ok..


Typical  hope he is enjoying it 
Mr M "seems" okay I wont jinx it  He loves his new found freedom all 4 feet x5 feet of it  The ungrateful sod prefers the little add-on run at the back door to his big run in the garden


----------



## buffie

AngelaWB said:


> One of my cats eats very little and is very light. I took him to the vet and they said he was fine. To monitor his weight though I bought a Weight Watchers digital scales, I weigh myself (yikes), then weigh myself again holding Oscar, then take one away from the other. It gives me an indication if he's increasing/decreasing in weight. Won't be as accurate as the vets scales, but it does give you an idea.


I have nearly bought digital "baby scales" but I will become paranoid about weighing so I have,at the moment,resisted temptation


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> One of my cats eats very little and is very light. I took him to the vet and they said he was fine. To monitor his weight though I bought a Weight Watchers digital scales, I weigh myself (yikes), then weigh myself again holding Oscar, then take one away from the other. It gives me an indication if he's increasing/decreasing in weight. Won't be as accurate as the vets scales, but it does give you an idea.


That's what I do with Riley..different from the vets scales, but gives me an idea..

His cat friend came in the house earlier and they was next to each other, now she is a big girl  solid! But even though I think she is a little bit heavy, she struggles to jump on the fence has to claw her way up and her tummy hangs low..it makes it worse looking at him..she is a lovely girl, but could do with giving Riley some of her weight


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Typical  hope he is enjoying it
> Mr M "seems" okay I wont jinx it  He loves his new found freedom all 4 feet x5 feet of it  The ungrateful sod prefers the little add-on run at the back door to his big run in the garden


Gotta love em!!



buffie said:


> I have nearly bought digital "baby scales" but I will become paranoid about weighing so I have,at the moment,resisted temptation


That is what stops me from buying them too!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well, seems like it was a blip..back to normal eating today..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well, seems like it was a blip..back to normal eating today..


Excellent ,just what we like to hear :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

I am really pleased, I was going to take him to the vets tomorrow if he still had not eaten as much as he has..but won't need to now..

I don't need to tell you guys what it's like, one little thing and I go into concerned mode, that carries on slight panic mode!!

Mind last coupe of days it's had been warm again, plus he had his wormer at the start of the week..so could have been part of the reason


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I am really pleased, I was going to take him to the vets tomorrow if he still had not eaten as much as he has..but won't need to now..
> 
> I don't need to tell you guys what it's like, one little thing and I go into concerned mode, that carries on slight panic mode!!
> 
> Mind last coupe of days it's had been warm again, plus he had his wormer at the start of the week..so could have been part of the reason


You are preaching to the choir m'dear  Meeko has been acting totally "out of character" today,not ill but weird  I sometimes think I am making the poor boy a complete basket case


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You are preaching to the choir m'dear  Meeko has been acting totally "out of character" today,not ill but weird  I sometimes think I am making the poor boy a complete basket case


I have a spare coat that buckles up at the back..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have a spare coat that buckles up at the back..


Does that come with a rubber room


----------



## nicolaa123

A Riley update..he is still up and down with the amount of food he is eating, but I am happy that he is eating enough..all still good back end wise..6 weeks now with only a couple of incidents!! 

Really not sure whether he has put on any weight, we will find that out next week, but he seems ok in himself. He is currently parked out next doors window taunting Sam 

He has been out enjoying the sunshine, whilst I've been trying to de-fur the house!! He looks so happy with his nose pressed up at next doors window..he is a little ***


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> A Riley update..he is still up and down with the amount of food he is eating, but I am happy that he is eating enough..all still good back end wise..6 weeks now with only a couple of incidents!!
> 
> Really not sure whether he has put on any weight, we will find that out next week, but he seems ok in himself. He is currently parked out next doors window taunting Sam
> 
> He has been out enjoying the sunshine, whilst I've been trying to de-fur the house!! He looks so happy with his nose pressed up at next doors window..he is a little ***


Pleased to read that Riley is still doing well maybe he is just able to regulate what he "needs" to eat now instead of possibly eating more than he maybe should have been.Everything crossed for a good result at his check-up next week

Meeko update,
Free to any home good or otherwise  Doesn't seem to like his big run anywhere like as much as he likes his little box-room 
Back to serious stuff ,Seems to be doing okay appetite levelled off again,weight wise not sure he may have put on a smidge,no :arf: other than hairballs (not necessarily good) so in the grand scheme of things I would say all seems okay .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Pleased to read that Riley is still doing well maybe he is just able to regulate what he "needs" to eat now instead of possibly eating more than he maybe should have been.Everything crossed for a good result at his check-up next week
> 
> Meeko update,
> Free to any home good or otherwise  Doesn't seem to like his big run anywhere like as much as he likes his little box-room
> Back to serious stuff ,Seems to be doing okay appetite levelled off again,weight wise not sure he may have put on a smidge,no :arf: other than hairballs (not necessarily good) so in the grand scheme of things I would say all seems okay .


He can come live with us 

Good to hear all seems ok, probably the best we can hope for with ibd..


----------



## Cazzer

Glad to hear that the two stalwarts of the IBD thread are doing ok. Karlo and myself hope that it continues! Sorry not to have been around but firstly look a bit of a break from the forum. Then changed over to what was supposed to be super fast broadband. In reality it meant we were without broadband for a month 

Karlo meanwhile has been the same as always. However he surprised me this week by eating some Honeys chicken! he appeared to love it and there was no dire rear!!!!!! Typically I've only got 250g left of the chicken.

I wasn't going to get anymore honeys given i make my own raw (which he won't touch), but I think I'm going to have to as I never did find a good tinned food which didn't upset him, so he's just been having the RC sensitivity control which I don't think is great.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Glad to hear that the two stalwarts of the IBD thread are doing ok. Karlo and myself hope that it continues! Sorry not to have been around but firstly look a bit of a break from the forum. Then changed over to what was supposed to be super fast broadband. In reality it meant we were without broadband for a month
> 
> Karlo meanwhile has been the same as always. However he surprised me this week by eating some Honeys chicken! he appeared to love it and there was no dire rear!!!!!! Typically I've only got 250g left of the chicken.
> 
> I wasn't going to get anymore honeys given i make my own raw (which he won't touch), but I think I'm going to have to as I never did find a good tinned food which didn't upset him, so he's just been having the RC sensitivity control which I don't think is great.


Hi! Good to hear all is well with you and Karlo! How's the rest of the gang?


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi! Good to hear all is well with you and Karlo! How's the rest of the gang?


Yes they are all good thanks! As spoilt as always!


----------



## buffie

Hi stranger nice to see you back  Good to read that all is well with you and the furbies ,I wish I could get "fussy knickers" to give raw a try he just doesn't see it as food


----------



## nicolaa123

So Riley was sick earlier..I know exactly what caused it as apart from the tail was detached from the body, it came back whole :shocked:

A blue damsel dragon fly :frown2:

I mean he really does not help himself. :mad2: :mad2:


----------



## Cazzer

Oh dear poor Riley, that'll teach him to supplement his diet!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh dear poor Riley, that'll teach him to supplement his diet!


Some how I don't think it will put him off :frown2:


----------



## nicolaa123

Just had the scare of my life!! I went for a wee, finished stood up and there was blades of grass with poo floating in the bowl  I was like that can't be from me, i only had a wee! Panic panic......
......
.....
......
.......then remembered I had cleaned poo from his tray this morning, some must not have flushed away.. thought I was going mad for a minute..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> So Riley was sick earlier..I know exactly what caused it as apart from the tail was detached from the body, it came back whole :shocked:
> 
> A blue damsel dragon fly :frown2:
> 
> I mean he really does not help himself. :mad2: :mad2:


I suppose it could be classed as a novel protein


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I suppose it could be classed as a novel protein


Adding that to the list of foods he can't eat


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the course of metronidazole has finished, so as expected some explosive diarrhoea, actually not too bad, as also expected I'm full is scratches and bite marks, as he really is sensitive now and does not want or like me cleaning him.

I am really gentle, but he can't even bare his tail being washed now  hopefully this is a blip and we won't be back to daily diarrhoea as I'm really not sure how either of us would cope!

Off to clean my wounds :crying:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well the course of metronidazole has finished, so as expected some explosive diarrhoea, actually not too bad, as also expected I'm full is scratches and bite marks, as he really is sensitive now and does not want or like me cleaning him.
> 
> I am really gentle, but he can't even bare his tail being washed now  hopefully this is a blip and we won't be back to daily diarrhoea as I'm really not sure how either of us would cope!
> 
> Off to clean my wounds :crying:


Oh b*gger it How long since the last tablet .Hope it is just a "winding down"from the meds causing this.It may be worth asking the vet on Wednesday if there is any supplement that would help.I remember my diabetic cat being given peridale granules to help to firm her up they can firm up loose poo and soften hard poo ,don't ask me how it works although I have no idea if it could be used long term


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh b*gger it How long since the last tablet .Hope it is just a "winding down"from the meds causing this.It may be worth asking the vet on Wednesday if there is any supplement that would help.I remember my diabetic cat being given peridale granules to help to firm her up they can firm up loose poo and soften hard poo ,don't ask me how it works although I have no idea if it could be used long term


Last tablet was Friday, he was the same last time he came off them. I will ask about the peridale, but to be fair the pumpkin is doing its job, plus he can have that going forward in every meal. I know is only masking his symptoms and not curing the ibd, but if it makes him more "comfortable" then I will keep giving it to him.

What would be amazing is, he puts on weight and that shows on his weight check, he is a good boy and he lets then take blood with out gas amd the results show no problem with his liver..AND that we then do not have to have a vet visit until he gets his jabs in December..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Last tablet was Friday, he was the same last time he came off them. I will ask about the peridale, but to be fair the pumpkin is doing its job, plus he can have that going forward in every meal. I know is only masking his symptoms and not curing the ibd, but if it makes him more "comfortable" then I will keep giving it to him.
> 
> What would be amazing is, he puts on weight and that shows on his weight check, he is a good boy and he lets then take blood with out gas amd the results show no problem with his liver..AND that we then do not have to have a vet visit until he gets his jabs in December..


Everything crossed for a successful weight check etc then you can go off on your break as relaxed as you can , that all is well in the world of Riley


----------



## Tao2

Hi everyone, Am back!! Have been on holiday (nerve wracking leaving Mittens! ), thankfully everything seems to have been OK in my absence! We booked it aeons ago before Mittens' diagnosis and couldn't cancel it but am glad now as had a nice time! Although Fluff Beast has done his usual lonesome shredding of the banisters, OH hasn't noticed....yet......


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Hi everyone, Am back!! Have been on holiday (nerve wracking leaving Mittens! ), thankfully everything seems to have been OK in my absence! We booked it aeons ago before Mittens' diagnosis and couldn't cancel it but am glad now as had a nice time! Although Fluff Beast has done his usual lonesome shredding of the banisters, OH hasn't noticed....yet......


Hey welcome back! Where did you go??

Pleased mittens was ok whilst you was away...

..uhm maybe get the sander out before oh sees the banisters


----------



## Tao2

South of france, weather was fab. Hired a vet nurse to come in daily to give Mittens her meds and a couple of wonderful friends came in throughout the days to give her tempting bits of food (froze down a mountain of chicken for her in advance). She has a vet check tomorrow, fingers crossed.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Hi everyone, Am back!! Have been on holiday (nerve wracking leaving Mittens! ), thankfully everything seems to have been OK in my absence! We booked it aeons ago before Mittens' diagnosis and couldn't cancel it but am glad now as had a nice time! Although Fluff Beast has done his usual lonesome shredding of the banisters, OH hasn't noticed....yet......


Funnily enough I was just thinking over the w/end that you hadn't been around recently,really pleased it was for a good reason  Hope you managed to relax and recharge your batteries 
Sounds as though Fluff Beast found a new hobby while you were away


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> South of france, weather was fab. Hired a vet nurse to come in daily to give Mittens her meds and a couple of wonderful friends came in throughout the days to give her tempting bits of food (froze down a mountain of chicken for her in advance). She has a vet check tomorrow, fingers crossed.


Sounds like a good holiday and brilliant idea to hire the vet nurse!

Hope all goes well at the vets, we are in for a check up Wednesday..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sounds like a good holiday and brilliant idea to hire the vet nurse!
> 
> Hope all goes well at the vets, we are in for a check up Wednesday..


Fingers and paws crossed for both Mittens and Riley at their vet checks


----------



## nicolaa123

How is mr m?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> How is mr m?


What was that  did you ask a question 
Doing okay (jinxed now I'll bet) I have just brought him in, he has become a dirty stop-out in his little add-on run 
He had a visitor today a passing moggy stopped to say hello, there was much swearing from Mr M :w00t:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What was that  did you ask a question
> Doing okay (jinxed now I'll bet) I have just brought him in, he has become a dirty stop-out in his little add-on run
> He had a visitor today a passing moggy stopped to say hello, there was much swearing from Mr M :w00t:


Cats eh?!?!  wonder why he prefers the smaller run  good to hear he is making friends


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Cats eh?!?!  wonder why he prefers the smaller run  good to hear he is making friends


I think because he can come and go to suit himself,maybe we will just have to try to make it a bit bigger although that will mean some major hedge removal and fence rebuilding.If only we could link the house to the run with a tunnel,but that is a physical impossibility


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think because he can come and go to suit himself,maybe we will just have to try to make it a bit bigger although that will mean some major hedge removal and fence rebuilding.If only we could link the house to the run with a tunnel,but that is a physical impossibility


Where there's a cat..........there's a way


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Where there's a cat..........there's a way


View from add-on run door . Bottom right of pic you can just see the front of his run.There are 3 steps down to the garden level so not easy ..and if you peer over the table on the grass you can just see Meeko's visitor


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> View from add-on run door . Bottom right of pic you can just see the front of his run.There are 3 steps down to the garden level so not easy ..and if you peer over the table on the grass you can just see Meeko's visitor


Yeah that is a tricky one..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah that is a tricky one..


Havnt ruled it out totally but it is going to need some clever thinking


----------



## nicolaa123

Update  he put on now 4.11 kg..so pleased he is over the 4kg mark again. He is to stay on the chlorambucil for life as the concern is that if we stop (referral vets agree) he will relapse and then if we have to introduce it again it may not be effective..he had the gas for his bloods to be taken, was a wee but drunk when she bought him back but that only lasted a few minutes. We are in agreement to minimise stress all bloods will be done with a little bit of gas. 

Sh said he took the gas no problem but was getting very stressed when they first tried to take the bloods. They shaved the other side of his neck this time. He is now licking himself clean of the vets smell 

Blood tests results are back tomorrow..katrin does not seem to concerned tho which is good.

Soooo all being well no vet trips until Christmas when he is due for his jabs!

I am one happy happy happy happy girl tonight!


----------



## buffie

Hope this is the end to Riley's weight loss probs,how often does he need to take the chlorambucil ? I assume it doesnt have any long term use side effects,sorry for all the questions I'm just interested as unless I'm mistaken, it is quite a powerful drug.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope this is the end to Riley's weight loss probs,how often does he need to take the chlorambucil ? I assume it doesnt have any long term use side effects,sorry for all the questions I'm just interested as unless I'm mistaken, it is quite a powerful drug.


One a week, but come his December check, if his weight has increased enough we can stretch it to maybe every ten days. From what I've read and what vet said there are very little risks with long term use, especially when you compare to long use of steroids.. There is a question over bone marrow suppression, but opinions vary on that greatly from all I have read

http://www.forestlodgevets.com/drug_information_leaflets/Chlorambucil.pdf

But I don't see what choice we have sadly..take him off the drug and he will waste away..

The referral vets said his level were fine. My vet did not seem concerned about it being life long..but now you have got me thinking is it the right thing..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> One a week, but come his December check, if his weight has increased enough we can stretch it to maybe every ten days. From what I've read and what vet said there are very little risks with long term use, especially when you compare to long use of steroids.. There is a question over bone marrow suppression, but opinions vary on that greatly from all I have read
> 
> http://www.forestlodgevets.com/drug_information_leaflets/Chlorambucil.pdf
> 
> But I don't see what choice we have sadly..take him off the drug and he will waste away..
> 
> The referral vets said his level were fine. My vet did not seem concerned about it being life long..but now you have got me thinking is it the right thing..


Oh Nicola I was asking purely because I didn't know,didnt mean to worry you  If your vet and the referral vet are fine with it then it must be okay. Like you say you are between a rock and a hard place anyway as Riley cant keep losing weight.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh Nicola I was asking purely because I didn't know,didnt mean to worry you  If your vet and the referral vet are fine with it then it must be okay. Like you say you are between a rock and a hard place anyway as Riley cant keep losing weight.


No don't be silly, you did not worry me and its good for me to have a reality check also  I just need to be on the look out for any signs of side effects! I will ask the vet when he should have his levels checked, from what I've read it should be on a "regular" basis 

It would be a huge gamble to stop the meds, I still have the image in my mind of when he was at his worse all gappy on his fur and generally looking like a poor stray..not sure I could take that gamble right now..

But I will push once he is stable with his weight to stretch the dose..


----------



## nicolaa123

Just for reference

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/321632-rileys-blood-tests.html

So I don't have to type it out again..

Ok so new meds are hepatosyl and destolit both to support the liver, once a day. The latter is a third of a tablet, that stretched my cutting abilities!! Antibiotics tbc..

It may seem I'm not overly worried, to be fair I'm not sure it's sunk in fully as yet. I just keep thinking how can this be happening when he is doing so well, he looks so well, he is being a pain in the bum so must be feeling better..just don't get it..

Saw my own vampire today..no gas offered for me..


----------



## nicolaa123

Liver Disease in Cats: Notes | Veterinary CPD | Veterinary Education | Vet CPD | The Webinar Vet

Very interesting..

Still looking for info 

Got a Riley cat on my lap looking so happy..I still don't get it..


----------



## nicolaa123

I don't know what are in these new tablets, but for the past few days he has been tearing around the house at 100 mph "killing" everything and anything that gets in his way.

We have even been playing jump in the bath jump out and chase the ping pong ball, a game we have not played in a long while :thumbup1: 

He is eating well, the normal amount about 200-250g of food per day, which is fine. Plus topping that up with moths  he seems to have a taste for moths :shocked:

I got my tickets through at the weekend for holiday. I'm still very much in two minds, I had forgot about it until they come through. My friend who will look afte Riley says I should still go and that he will give him his tablets and also come to the house more times to check on him..


...I just don't know what to do


----------



## AngelaWB

I've not read through every post Nicola, but realise you're worried about Riley's medication. I know how you feel, I worry about tablets etc, but at the same time, it does sound as though Riley's quality of life has improved and he's happy, that's the important thing. Hope he continues to do well.

Good news with Doris, she's continuing to put on weight, she's on Natural Instinct raw meat and Porta 21 grain free biscuits - she's a lot more settled and happy (and has solid poos  )


----------



## nicolaa123

AngelaWB said:


> I've not read through every post Nicola, but realise you're worried about Riley's medication. I know how you feel, I worry about tablets etc, but at the same time, it does sound as though Riley's quality of life has improved and he's happy, that's the important thing. Hope he continues to do well.
> 
> Good news with Doris, she's continuing to put on weight, she's on Natural Instinct raw meat and Porta 21 grain free biscuits - she's a lot more settled and happy (and has solid poos  )


I've accepted that he will be on meds for rest of his life and I'm ok with that..for me he is no hassle to medicate at all :thumbup1: I do worry about any negative affect of the meds, but I have no choice really as without the meds, his weight and condition could crash.

Great news about Doris :thumbup1: pleased she is still putting on weight..always good to read about solid poo :001_cool:


----------



## nicolaa123

Was talking to my neighbour earlier..sammy is not very well  he had vomited and was all quiet, she took him to the emergency vets, they think he may have a tummy bug..

Hopefully I will hear from my vet tomorrow about what antibiotic Riley will have. I also would like an alternative to one of his tablets as its a capsule type one and not so easy to get down in one go, so will ask if same thing can be a tablet form as he takes them much easier..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Was talking to my neighbour earlier..sammy is not very well  he had vomited and was all quiet, she took him to the emergency vets, they think he may have a tummy bug..
> 
> Hopefully I will hear from my vet tomorrow about what antibiotic Riley will have. I also would like an alternative to one of his tablets as its a capsule type one and not so easy to get down in one go, so will ask if same thing can be a tablet form as he takes them much easier..


Hope Sammy is feeling better soon also hope it is nothing "doing the rounds" wouldn't like to see Mr R catching it.
Capsules are awkward to get over ,they just seem to stick to their mouths
Have you tried coating it in a little butter


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope Sammy is feeling better soon also hope it is nothing "doing the rounds" wouldn't like to see Mr R catching it.
> Capsules are awkward to get over ,they just seem to stick to their mouths
> Have you tried coating it in a little butter


Well after she said she had changed his food, he was on whiskers but she had changed to a better food, so hopefully it was the change rather than a bug!

Not sure could use butter.......but I could roll it in kangaroo to help go down? I would worry that the butter would upset his tummy..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well after she said she had changed his food, he was on whiskers but she had changed to a better food, so hopefully it was the change rather than a bug!
> 
> Not sure could use butter.......but I could roll it in kangaroo to help go down? I would worry that the butter would upset his tummy..


Hmm anything really would do just to make it "slippy"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hmm anything really would do just to make it "slippy"


I will try it tomorrow and see!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I will try it tomorrow and see!


Good luck :arf:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good luck :arf:


Ha ha..I'm lucky he is a good boy for me! As long as I get him sat the right way we have no problem at all..plus he knows he gets a good scratch on his bald bits after as a treat


----------



## nicolaa123

Dipped it in pumpkin and went down much easier!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Dipped it in pumpkin and went down much easier!!


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor sammy is still not well, he is off to the vets tomorrow, he has not eaten and is lethargic..I'm thinking now more like a bug 

Riley was bit odd earlier, I came home and he complained like normal..I let him out and he came back inside for a poo! Most odd! Poo was nice (I need to get a life) but so unusual for him if he has the choice to poo in his tray, or outside its always outside....no complaints from me I would rather him toilet indoors..just odd


----------



## Tao2

Mittens always comes inside to use litter tray! I would much prefer her to go outside but she does not recognise outdoors as having any toileting opportunities....unless I put the litter tray outdoors for her. What a madam!! :nono:


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Mittens always comes inside to use litter tray! I would much prefer her to go outside but she does not recognise outdoors as having any toileting opportunities....unless I put the litter tray outdoors for her. What a madam!! :nono:


I like watching him poo (I really really need a life) he makes funny faces


----------



## nicolaa123

Well vet has called. Polly (referral vet) wants him on two antibiotics one being metronidazole and the other which is an amolixcin type one..6 pills a day 

So she has suggested we start the mammoth pill regime when I'm back from holidays..he will then be on these for a month, then follow up blood tests!

My poor boy will be rattling!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well vet has called. Polly (referral vet) wants him on two antibiotics one being metronidazole and the other which is an amolixcin type one..6 pills a day
> 
> So she has suggested we start the mammoth pill regime when I'm back from holidays..he will then be on these for a month, then follow up blood tests!
> 
> My poor boy will be rattling!


Oh my good god,that is a lot of pilling,just as well Mr R is an obliging soul,still if it sorts him out it will be worth it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh my good god,that is a lot of pilling,just as well Mr R is an obliging soul,still if it sorts him out it will be worth it


It is a lot, thinking behind it is to try and get his alt level down, that would mean that the liver problem could go into remission..

I am concerned on the amount but if it does the job and we can reverse the liver damage then it's worth 4 weeks of hopefully not hell :crying:


----------



## nicolaa123

It might be wishful thinking, but I've been sat looking at Riley and to me he looks bigger to me, might be getting his autumn coat, but he doesn't look as skinny to me..

I just can't get it in my head that his liver has been affected when he is looking better than he has done for ages 

He is not happy with me tho (flea killing time) plus I've put his new bowl down tonight  it's a nice bowl! 

I do also have a question, he has two litter trays, but mainly uses bathroom tray and not bedroom tray..whilst I'm away is it worth putting a third tray down as I'm not sure where I would put it..living room is where he is fed and kitchen is where his cat carrier is and he sleeps..


----------



## Tao2

Welcome to my world of 6 meds a day!!! Mittens was a complete nightmare to pill when this whole thing started back in March but I have to say that it struck me just this morning when I was giving her the 'early morning, empty stomach pill' that she has got very used to it and I virtually just pop it in her mouth now. It's just remembering what I have and haven't given her that I struggle with!!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Welcome to my world of 6 meds a day!!! Mittens was a complete nightmare to pill when this whole thing started back in March but I have to say that it struck me just this morning when I was giving her the 'early morning, empty stomach pill' that she has got very used to it and I virtually just pop it in her mouth now. It's just remembering what I have and haven't given her that I struggle with!!!


Riley is really good to be fair, we don't have any fights about it 

Think will get one of them pill box things to help me


----------



## buffie

As long as the doors into the rooms where the trays are don't get closed I doubt whether there would be much to gain from an extra tray .
I assume his "carer's"  are not squeamish about cleaning trays and they will be cleaned as soon as possible when they visit.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> As long as the doors into the rooms where the trays are don't get closed I doubt whether there would be much to gain from an extra tray .
> I assume his "carer's"  are not squeamish about cleaning trays and they will be cleaned as soon as possible when they visit.


No he will clean trays..I've changed his sons evil nappies so not only does he owe me, but Riley will be no where as bad 

Riley is also quite predictable..wee overnight/early morning, wee afternoon/early evening, followed by a poo, then another wee overnight again..

I'm working out best timings for him to come over..I'm thinking 8 am then 4pm then 8 pm..bit out of Riley's routine but enough in it to be good for feeding and litter cleaning


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley update! He has been really well, apart from today  he was sick once and now just had a runny bum 

But just thinking about it, my fridge has been playing up, freezing then defrosting, could slap myself really! I did get rid of some of his food that had frozen, but did not think about the pumpkin  so could be this that has caused the upset. When he was sick it was food rather than the foamy stuff..

Plus he is also out of routine, which could also be a factor..apart from today he has been really good, I even think he looks like he has put some more weight on..

Hope other ibd'ers are doing ok..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *Riley update! He has been really well, apart from today  he was sick once and now just had a runny bum *
> 
> But just thinking about it, my fridge has been playing up, freezing then defrosting, could slap myself really! I did get rid of some of his food that had frozen, but did not think about the pumpkin  so could be this that has caused the upset. When he was sick it was food rather than the foamy stuff..
> 
> Plus he is also out of routine, which could also be a factor..apart from today he has been really good, I even think he looks like he has put some more weight on..
> 
> Hope other ibd'ers are doing ok..


Oh poor Riley,hope it is just the pumpkin to blame,silly slave 
My fridge used to do that,it has certain shelves for storing different foods,if I keep it at "3" which the book suggests is the normal setting some of the food freezes so I have to have it slightly higher.


----------



## Cazzer

Poor Riley hope its just down the fridge and nothing else. 

Meanwhile Karlo is still eating raw honeys chicken. He's been fine. So he's been getting a mixture of that and the sensitivity control each day. I wish he'd tried one of the other flavours or homemade but he'll only entertain it if it is coated in thrive!

Still at least he is eating the chicken!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Poor Riley hope its just down the fridge and nothing else.
> 
> Meanwhile Karlo is still eating raw honeys chicken. He's been fine. So he's been getting a mixture of that and the sensitivity control each day. I wish he'd tried one of the other flavours or homemade but he'll only entertain it if it is coated in thrive!
> 
> Still at least he is eating the chicken!


I hope it's down to the fridge and me being stoooopid!

Pleased to hear Karlo has been well! It's such a minefield thinking about food with these cats!!


----------



## KathinUK

Cazzer said:


> Meanwhile Karlo is still eating raw honeys chicken. He's been fine. So he's been getting a mixture of that and the sensitivity control each day. I wish he'd tried one of the other flavours or homemade but he'll only entertain it if it is coated in thrive!
> 
> !


Good to hear Karlo's eating well. 

Honeys goes down well with Sally too -especially the rabbit. I usually add raw egg plus squash and chicken bone broth which I think is easy on her tummy and prolly adds flavour.

Kath


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Poor Riley hope its just down the fridge and nothing else.
> 
> Meanwhile Karlo is still eating raw honeys chicken. He's been fine. So he's been getting a mixture of that and the sensitivity control each day. I wish he'd tried one of the other flavours or homemade but he'll only entertain it if it is coated in thrive!
> 
> Still at least he is eating the chicken!


Great to read Karlo is doing well I wish Meeko would at least give raw a try but he flatly refuses,I don't think he see's it as food Even the wonderful "thrive" which is used here too (wonderful stuff) wont budge him


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Great to read Karlo is doing well I wish Meeko would at least give raw a try but he flatly refuses,I don't think he see's it as food Even the wonderful "thrive" which is used here too (wonderful stuff) wont budge him


They do a food as well thrive® Complete 100% Chicken-75g Tin

Not sure how good it is.. no good for Riley as not nearly obscure enough


----------



## Cazzer

I've been given a few free tins of it Nicola and wasn't impressed to be honest. Yes the cats ate it but its more in the applaws schlesir type food but not looking as good as those. I wouldn't buy it!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> They do a food as well thrive® Complete 100% Chicken-75g Tin
> 
> Not sure how good it is.. no good for Riley as not nearly obscure enough


Been there ,tried it,binned it .Sainsbury's have it and they can keep it,but thanks for the thought


----------



## nicolaa123

So I've been looking after my friends children today, came home went back for dinner..

The three year old is so excited about "looking" after Riley..

I asked what he will feed him, he said "dog biscuits"  I said no he eats kangaroo..you should have seen his face  he told me in no uncertain terms..he will take a frog (they have a pond with frogs) round for Riley's dinner and he will clean Riley's bum 

Awwwwwww gonna miss the kids and Riley


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> So I've been looking after my friends children today, came home went back for dinner..
> 
> The three year old is so excited about "looking" after Riley..
> 
> I asked what he will feed him, he said "dog biscuits"  I said no he eats kangaroo..you should have seen his face  he told me in no uncertain terms..he will take a frog (they have a pond with frogs) round for Riley's dinner and he will clean Riley's bum
> 
> *Awwwwwww gonna miss the kids *and Riley


Give me Rileys bum any day


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Give me Rileys bum any day


Not sure you would want it after a frog  

Pleased to report bum is back to normal today


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Not sure you would want it after a frog
> 
> Pleased to report bum is back to normal today


Yayy normal bum :thumbup: :thumbup:
Believe me frogs and bums are much less hassle than children, my daughter would agree with me  .I obviously left a lasting impression


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yayy normal bum :thumbup: :thumbup:
> Believe me frogs and bums are much less hassle than children, my daughter would agree with me  .I obviously left a lasting impression


Ah but I only get them part time  get all good bits and only some bad behaviour, tho me and 3 year old have come to an understanding 

Going to so miss Riley tho :crying: :crying:


----------



## Tao2

Hi guys, things not looking too good here. Mittens developed signs of jaundice on Sunday, took her to the vet and he says that, in addition, her kidneys are now enlarged and she has developed a heart murmur. She's going in for more blood tests and further investigations of heart issue tomorrow, am not anticipating good news. She's OK in herself, still eating and enjoying a cuddle but a bit subdued. Will let you know how the further tests go.


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Hi guys, things not looking too good here. Mittens developed signs of jaundice on Sunday, took her to the vet and he says that, in addition, her kidneys are now enlarged and she has developed a heart murmur. She's going in for more blood tests and further investigations of heart issue tomorrow, am not anticipating good news. She's OK in herself, still eating and enjoying a cuddle but a bit subdued. Will let you know how the further tests go.


Oh no  so sorry to read that Mittens it not doing so well.Got everything crossed here that there is something they can do to help her.


----------



## Cazzer

Oh no poor mittens, bless her hope she will be ok

I'm ever so slightly concerned about Karlo as he doesn't appear to be enjoying his food. He gets fed about 6.30 am and then again when we get home on a night, and then a couple of smaller meals during the evening.Whereas he normally eats a full RC pouch at 6.30 with great enthusiasm and again when we return now he heaves half at each sitting.It's not like him. However i discovered yesterday if you put fortiflora or crushed thrive on the left half he will eat it. 

I fed some of the others their raw yesterday and as he thought it was honeys chicken he was really interested. But when he realised it was rabbit he wasn't interested.

I am inclined to theory he's fed up of with the RC rather than his teeth or IBD playing up. or him being not hungry. He also ate a little bit of chicken Grau this am. So could be a runny bum later. i just wanted to see if he would eat it. So he does appear to be hungry. That was after eating a RC pouch that had to be sprinkled with fortiflora. I'm on holiday next week as well so will be worrying about my cwtchy man


----------



## Polly G

Sorry to hear about Mittens - I hope she is soon on the mend


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Oh no poor mittens, bless her hope she will be ok
> 
> I'm ever so slightly concerned about Karlo as he doesn't appear to be enjoying his food. He gets fed about 6.30 am and then again when we get home on a night, and then a couple of smaller meals during the evening.Whereas he normally eats a full RC pouch at 6.30 with great enthusiasm and again when we return now he heaves half at each sitting.It's not like him. However i discovered yesterday if you put fortiflora or crushed thrive on the left half he will eat it.
> 
> I fed some of the others their raw yesterday and as he thought it was honeys chicken he was really interested. But when he realised it was rabbit he wasn't interested.
> 
> I am inclined to theory he's fed up of with the RC rather than his teeth or IBD playing up. or him being not hungry. He also ate a little bit of chicken Grau this am. So could be a runny bum later. i just wanted to see if he would eat it. So he does appear to be hungry. That was after eating a RC pouch that had to be sprinkled with fortiflora. I'm on holiday next week as well so will be worrying about my cwtchy man


Hells teeth these cats keep us on our toes hope Karlo is just suffering from fussyitis,they are masters at getting their timing just right  just what you don't need when you are going away.
Meeko has started being sick again (not much) so it could be the Famotidine is not having the same effect now .Will see how he goes but looks like he will have to go back and see his friendly V.E.T


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry to hear mittens, Karlo and Meeko are all not well..positive vibes coming your ways x


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear Meeko isn't doing too well 

How is he doing today?

Got home last night and the cwtchy one only ate half a sachet. We'd left home earlier than normal as well, so was hoping for a ravenous kitty, as it was a bit longer than usual without food. I decided then to make an appointment at the vets. Typically last night he decided he was going to eat what ever I put in front of him! He had a good feed of raw and also some of the pouches. So I cancelled the appointment!


----------



## Tao2

He's just trying to keep you on your toes!!! Hope he starts eating better soon.

Still waiting for Mittens' bloods results but her blood pressure was normal and she's not looking jaundiced any more.


----------



## Cazzer

Tao2 said:


> He's just trying to keep you on your toes!!! Hope he starts eating better soon.
> 
> Still waiting for Mittens' bloods results but her blood pressure was normal and she's not looking jaundiced any more.


That is good news. Hope the bloods are ok!

You could be right about Karlo!


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> He's just trying to keep you on your toes!!! Hope he starts eating better soon.
> 
> Still waiting for Mittens' bloods results but her blood pressure was normal and she's not looking jaundiced any more.


All crossed for the blood results


----------



## Tao2

Vet just phoned with her blood test results: her liver readings are quite a lot worse. Kidneys are absolutely fine. TBH I completely expected her liver results to have deteriorated so I was fully prepared for the liver results, am just glad that her kidneys and heart aren't packing up too!!
Basically, she has good quality of life at the moment so she is staying on the same medication and feeding routine and it's just fingers crossed for a bit more time with her.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Vet just phoned with her blood test results: her liver readings are quite a lot worse. Kidneys are absolutely fine. TBH I completely expected her liver results to have deteriorated so I was fully prepared for the liver results, am just glad that her kidneys and heart aren't packing up too!!
> Basically, she has good quality of life at the moment so she is staying on the same medication and feeding routine and it's just fingers crossed for a bit more time with her.


All crossed for a lot more time..good news on the kidney and heart tho..

To try and make you smile..my toilet is blocked as my friend thought Riley's wee was burger poo's and was putting them down the toilet first couple days..it's clumping litter.:crazy:


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Vet just phoned with her blood test results: her liver readings are quite a lot worse. Kidneys are absolutely fine. TBH I completely expected her liver results to have deteriorated so I was fully prepared for the liver results, am just glad that her kidneys and heart aren't packing up too!!
> Basically, she has good quality of life at the moment so she is staying on the same medication and feeding routine and it's just fingers crossed for a bit more time with her.


Good news that that there was nothing unexpected showed up in Mittens bloods,hope she continues with her good quality of life for a long time to come


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> All crossed for a lot more time..good news on the kidney and heart tho..
> 
> To try and make you smile..my toilet is blocked as my friend thought Riley's wee was burger poo's and was putting them down the toilet first couple days..it's clumping litter.:crazy:


I always flush Meeko's toilet contributions down the toilet,also clumping litter ,"Oko Plus" never had a problem............yet 
Hope you get it sorted soon as it doesn't make your "convenience" very "convenient"


----------



## nicolaa123

Well the pills are going down like a lead balloon! He is taking them but grumpy as hell!

Plus today saw the return of the runs  I imagine its the new antibiotic or combination of all the tablets. His poor bum looks very sore and we just had a fight I was trying to clean him up and he was scratching, hissing at me..

He wanted to clean himself by scooting on the carpet  I wanted to avoid poo trails..

I will see how he goes after all this is only really day 2 of the pills, see if he settles on them. I know he needs them to help his liver, but if its going to make him this un comfortable..I just don't know what to do for the best!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well his bum has calmed down..gave him his tablets and the other antibiotic (not metrondazole) I dropped as was getting near him..


..what did my funny little boy do?

He found it and ate it!

Result in my book!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well his bum has calmed down..gave him his tablets and the other antibiotic (not metrondazole) I dropped as was getting near him..
> 
> ..what did my funny little boy do?
> 
> *He found it and ate it*!
> 
> Result in my book!


:lol: :lol: Slave 1 Riley 0 
Missed the "bum" report hope it is just a side effect of the witches brew,poor lad.
Looks like Meeko is off to the v.e.t. he is being sick just a bit too often,looks like he might be immune to the Famotidine so will have to go and have a talk with the vet I think.
He is absolutely fine in himself so not really worried about him but obviously something isn't right


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :lol: :lol: Slave 1 Riley 0
> Missed the "bum" report hope it is just a side effect of the witches brew,poor lad.
> Looks like Meeko is off to the v.e.t. he is being sick just a bit too often,looks like he might be immune to the Famotidine so will have to go and have a talk with the vet I think.
> He is absolutely fine in himself so not really worried about him but obviously something isn't right


I really think its the pills causing upset..he has had 7 today which is a lot 
But at least I know two he will eat all by himself  I just need to try and stick with it, I don't want to make him feel cr&p by giving them, but I know he needs them :nonod:

Poor Meeko..hopefully there will be something else they can give him to stop the sickness..but good he is fine in himself, same as Riley he is happy, eating well..just not happy in the toilet department, but hopefully we will get past that..

Don't you just feel rubbish tho..you try and help and end up giving pills, checking bums, cleaning vomit and you just get that look!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Don't you just feel rubbish tho..you try and help and end up giving pills, checking bums, cleaning vomit and you just get that look!


Yep.......... or you get the full on missile attack I got earlier  still don't know why but he was one very angry boy and I have the scars as proof.
I was closing the bedroom curtains and he was on the bed,next second he was wrapped around my arm ripping lumps out of it with is very best bunny kicks :crying: He hasn't done that for ages,he was fine a few seconds later


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yep.......... or you get the full on missile attack I got earlier  still don't know why but he was one very angry boy and I have the scars as proof.
> I was closing the bedroom curtains and he was on the bed,next second he was wrapped around my arm ripping lumps out of it with is very best bunny kicks :crying: He hasn't done that for ages,he was fine a few seconds later


Yeah I got an ankle assault and a toe massacre  I picked him up held him close to me talking to him, his tail was swishing, but he did calm down..

I think it's one way they can show that it hurts/bothers them..

One of the reasons I question to myself am I right giving him these pills..I know I am as without them, well it would be a question of how long. But then I have the internal struggle am I doing it for him or me? A real mind melt that's for sure..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah I got an ankle assault and a toe massacre  I picked him up held him close to me talking to him, his tail was swishing, but he did calm down..
> 
> I think it's one way they can show that it hurts/bothers them..
> 
> One of the reasons I question to myself am I right giving him these pills..I know I am as without them, well it would be a question of how long. But then I have the internal struggle am I doing it for him or me? A real mind melt that's for sure..


You react like I do , hold them close till they calm down . I know (at least think) he doesn't mean to be aggressive he just "flips" occasionally ,not convinced though that it has anything to do with his IBD,he has always had a tendency to attack out of the blue


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You react like I do , hold them close till they calm down . I know (at least think) he doesn't mean to be aggressive he just "flips" occasionally ,not convinced though that it has anything to do with his IBD,he has always had a tendency to attack out of the blue


Riley has always been a toe attacker 

I hold him rock slightly and talk softly or sing to him when he is wild eyes!

They don't mean to be aggressive or hurt, which is why I don't get cross. But with Riley he does attack more when his tummy or bum hurts..but then when he has calmed down he is all loving again..especially after the "your so grumpy" song, sang to the tune of "your so vain" :wink:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley has always been a toe attacker
> 
> I hold him rock slightly and talk softly or sing to him when he is wild eyes!
> 
> They don't mean to be aggressive or hurt, which is why I don't get cross. But with Riley he does attack more when his tummy or bum hurts..but then when he has calmed down he is all loving again..*especially after the "your so grumpy" song, sang to the tune of "your so vain*" :wink:


:lol: :lol: reckon I'd go for the * sorry mum" angle too :w00t: :lol: :lol:
Right .... bed is calling  if I don't go now I have no chance of a comfy spot.
Speak soon x


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :lol: :lol: reckon I'd go for the * sorry mum" angle too :w00t: :lol: :lol:
> Right .... bed is calling  if I don't go now I have no chance of a comfy spot.
> Speak soon x


Nite..lets all have a better day tomorrow..x


----------



## nicolaa123

Still bit runny today, but not as bad as yesterday. I put his collar on to clean his bum after as he got some on his tail and around his bum. 

Sounds a bit cruel but was so much easier and quicker to clean him with it on, plus my hands stayed safe 

I'm spreading out the tablets more now to try and avoid his tummy being affected. Don't know what the rilexine are coated in, but they are like sweets to him!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Still bit runny today, but not as bad as yesterday. I put his collar on to clean his bum after as he got some on his tail and around his bum.
> 
> Sounds a bit cruel but was so much easier and quicker to clean him with it on, plus my hands stayed safe
> 
> I'm spreading out the tablets more now to try and avoid his tummy being affected. Don't know what the rilexine are coated in, but they are like sweets to him!!


Good thinking :thumbsup: hope the runny bum clears up soon.
Meeko is booked in for Thursday with his vet ,will see if there is anything else that might help with his vomiting.He isn't ill or off his food but something is causing the sickness to start up again.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good thinking :thumbsup: hope the runny bum clears up soon.
> Meeko is booked in for Thursday with his vet ,will see if there is anything else that might help with his vomiting.He isn't ill or off his food but something is causing the sickness to start up again.


All paws crossed the vet can give an alternative so he stops being sick..

These cats eh?!?!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> All paws crossed the vet can give an alternative so he stops being sick..
> 
> These cats eh?!?!


They really are keeping us on our toes 
I just hope that I am not being too dismissive of the possibility that there is more going on than the Famotidine stopping being affective.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> They really are keeping us on our toes
> I just hope that I am not being too dismissive of the possibility that there is more going on than the Famotidine stopping being affective.


Ah..sometimes a little bit of hope is all we can cling too..


----------



## nicolaa123

Pleased to report a better poo today, still bit sloppy on the end..but only a slight pat of the bum was needed 

I've just said to him, now he has had a poo he can go out for a little while..then it rains, so have one grumpy cat sat on the window sill, blaming me for the rain!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased to report a better poo today, still bit sloppy on the end..but only a slight pat of the bum was needed
> 
> I've just said to him, now he has had a poo he can go out for a little while..then it rains, *so have one grumpy cat sat on the window sill, blaming me for the rain! :rolleyes*:


Of course its your fault .
Good to read that his offerings are looking a bit better


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good thinking :thumbsup: hope the runny bum clears up soon.
> Meeko is booked in for Thursday with his vet ,will see if there is anything else that might help with his vomiting.He isn't ill or off his food but something is causing the sickness to start up again.


Good luck for tomorrow..both of us keeping paws, hands, feet crossed for a good visit


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good luck for tomorrow..both of us keeping paws, hands, feet crossed for a good visit


Thanks both of you  Don't quite know what to expect really,Meeko is okay in himself just the return of the :arf: which is a bit puzzling.
Will let you know what vet has to say tomorrow


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks both of you  Don't quite know what to expect really,Meeko is okay in himself just the return of the :arf: which is a bit puzzling.
> Will let you know what vet has to say tomorrow


I'm back to work tomorrow  gonna be tough after 2 and a half weeks off..

What time is appointment so I can check after?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm back to work tomorrow  gonna be tough after 2 and a half weeks off..
> 
> What time is appointment so I can check after?


Appt is 2:30 but probably wont be back till well after 3 as Scott(vet) tends to waffle on a bit which is good as long as I remember to ask all the things I mean to ask 
What on earth are you going back to work on a Thursday for  although on the other hand it makes it a short week


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Appt is 2:30 but probably wont be back till well after 3 as Scott(vet) tends to waffle on a bit which is good as long as I remember to ask all the things I mean to ask
> What on earth are you going back to work on a Thursday for  although on the other hand it makes it a short week


Just three days then a day off 

Will catch up with news after work..I will be the grumpy one


----------



## Tao2

Good luck for Meeko tomorrow.

Pleased to report that Mittens has decided to ignore her dodgy liver results and be super perky this week. She has even been asking for food today, can't remember the last time that happened!!!


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Good luck for Meeko tomorrow.
> 
> Pleased to report that Mittens has decided to ignore her dodgy liver results and be super perky this week. She has even been asking for food today, can't remember the last time that happened!!!


Thanks  He isn't unwell(not at the moment anyway) but he has started being sick again so reckoned it best to have him checked out.
So pleased to read that Mittens is doing well,fingers and paws crossed it continues


----------



## buffie

Vet visit over,cat poked/proded and as I thought he seems fine  Temp normal as is heart/breathing/tum ect weight the same as last visit in July so not really any further forward.
Vet is going to consult his book of spells to see if he can find another,easily given Meeko friendly antacid to try.
So will see what he has to say in a day or two.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Vet visit over,cat poked/proded and as I thought he seems fine  Temp normal as is heart/breathing/tum ect weight the same as last visit in July so not really any further forward.
> Vet is going to consult his book of spells to see if he can find another,easily given Meeko friendly antacid to try.
> So will see what he has to say in a day or two.


Pleased he is all the same as last time, perhaps it is as you thought his body has to used to the pills..

Hopefully an alternative will do the same job


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased he is all the same as last time, perhaps it is as you thought his body has to used to the pills..
> 
> Hopefully an alternative will do the same job


Forgot to add ,free consult :thumbup: :thumbup: Havnt had one of those for years


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Forgot to add ,free consult :thumbup: :thumbup: Havnt had one of those for years


Maybe some sort of loyalty bonus  so may visits and the next ones free


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry have not updated for a while..things bit hectic with the Macmillan coffee morning, plus started my hog volunteering today..I took poo samples 

Riley is doing ok, I still have a niggle in my head, but I'm trying to ignore it..

Appetite wise, he has deceased the amount he is eating, I'm putting that down to the ab's, bum wise, couple of sloppy ones but on the whole not bad. He is quite perky in himself, we still have a play most days!

Gong to book his blood test for the 10th and just hope his liver has behaved..


..hope everyone else is well..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry have not updated for a while..things bit hectic with the Macmillan coffee morning, plus started my hog volunteering today..I took poo samples
> 
> Riley is doing ok, I still have a niggle in my head, but I'm trying to ignore it..
> 
> Appetite wise, he has *deceased* the amount he is eating, I'm putting that down to the ab's, bum wise, couple of sloppy ones but on the whole not bad. He is quite perky in himself, we still have a play most days!
> 
> Gong to book his blood test for the 10th and just hope his liver has behaved..
> 
> ..hope everyone else is well..


Good to read that Riley is still doing okay despite the "deceased" appetite  

Meeko is doing okay too,still being a bit :arf: but otherwise fine.
Vet says he thinks it best to leave him on the famotidine as there is really nothing any better that he hasn't already tried,he is to go back for a check in 4/6 weeks unless I'm worried about him before then when he may re-do some bloods just to check all is well.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> *Good to read that Riley is still doing okay despite the "deceased" appetite
> *
> Meeko is doing okay too,still being a bit :arf: but otherwise fine.
> Vet says he thinks it best to leave him on the famotidine as there is really nothing any better that he hasn't already tried,he is to go back for a check in 4/6 weeks unless I'm worried about him before then when he may re-do some bloods just to check all is well.


Oooooopssssss!! Silly r not working 

Pleased mr m is also ok..think that's best we can really hope for!!


----------



## Cazzer

Glad everyone is doing ok! Karlo's fine but am expecting explosive dire rear later. We've been out for a few hours and the mob was hungry when we got back. Karlo was fed his RC separately and then let out. Silly slave had forgotten to pick up the mobs Smilla. Karlo managed to snaffle a few mouthfuls of it (he seems to love it). Last time he managed to get some there were about 7-8 piles of dire rear in kitchen later. Just hoping it's not going to be as bad this time!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Glad everyone is doing ok! Karlo's fine but am expecting explosive dire rear later. We've been out for a few hours and the mob was hungry when we got back. Karlo was fed his RC separately and then let out. Silly slave had forgotten to pick up the mobs Smilla. Karlo managed to snaffle a few mouthfuls of it (he seems to love it). Last time he managed to get some there were about 7-8 piles of dire rear in kitchen later. Just hoping it's not going to be as bad this time!


Oh no!!!

Put plenty of newspaper down..least it will soak some of it up..

Happy to hear he is doing ok too and hope it's only a small setback..maybe he will surprise you and there will be no problems..


----------



## KathinUK

Cazzer said:


> .... Karlo was fed his RC separately and then let out. Silly slave had forgotten to pick up the mobs Smilla. Karlo managed to snaffle a few mouthfuls of it (he seems to love it). Last time he managed to get some there were about 7-8 piles of dire rear in kitchen later. Just hoping it's not going to be as bad this time!


Hi d'ya think the high amount of offal/organ meat in Smilla might affect Karlo's digestion, whereas the others are ok with it?

Kath


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Glad everyone is doing ok! Karlo's fine but am expecting explosive dire rear later. We've been out for a few hours and the mob was hungry when we got back. Karlo was fed his RC separately and then let out. Silly slave had forgotten to pick up the mobs Smilla. Karlo managed to snaffle a few mouthfuls of it (he seems to love it). Last time he managed to get some there were about 7-8 piles of dire rear in kitchen later. Just hoping it's not going to be as bad this time!


 Oh dear at least you are prepared for the possible "fall out":arf: Hope all is well


----------



## Cazzer

KathinUK said:


> Hi d'ya think the high amount of offal/organ meat in Smilla might affect Karlo's digestion, whereas the others are ok with it?
> 
> Kath


Yes I do Kath. I can't even feed the others it very often either, as it would upset them as well. I've fed bozita tins /Smilla the same day and the others have had dire rear then as well. Once I've used up what we have in the house I'm not intending to purchase either brand again. I only have the chicken/lamb Smilla anyway as all the other varieties make me want to heave!


----------



## jaycee05

I have posted about my cat with colitis? before, ? because I am not convinced it IS colitis, she gets some really bad stomach pains where she doubles up,and then has diarrohea,
Today she had a big furball in it, I have never known a furball t6o come out that end, she used to throw furballs up a lot, but doesn't much now, and I am really wondering if its more of a blockage she has
Has anyone else seen furballs come out this way?
When I have taken her to the vets with the stomach pains,all they do is give her a painkilling injection, which doesn't last long,
Should I just try her with Katalax, before I take her back, [maybe to a different vet next time] cant bear seeing her with pain which makes her growl as if giving birth


----------



## nicolaa123

jaycee05 said:


> I have posted about my cat with colitis? before, ? because I am not convinced it IS colitis, she gets some really bad stomach pains where she doubles up,and then has diarrohea,
> Today she had a big furball in it, I have never known a furball t6o come out that end, she used to throw furballs up a lot, but doesn't much now, and I am really wondering if its more of a blockage she has
> Has anyone else seen furballs come out this way?
> When I have taken her to the vets with the stomach pains,all they do is give her a painkilling injection, which doesn't last long,
> Should I just try her with Katalax, before I take her back, [maybe to a different vet next time] cant bear seeing her with pain which makes her growl as if giving birth


I would definitely be asking for a second opinion..


----------



## jaycee05

She has not lost any weight at all, as I have read most cats with colitis do, in fact she is quite big around her middle, but taking her to a different vet this time, different practice


----------



## Tao2

jaycee05 said:


> I have posted about my cat with colitis? before, ? because I am not convinced it IS colitis, she gets some really bad stomach pains where she doubles up,and then has diarrohea,
> Today she had a big furball in it, I have never known a furball t6o come out that end, she used to throw furballs up a lot, but doesn't much now, and I am really wondering if its more of a blockage she has
> Has anyone else seen furballs come out this way?
> When I have taken her to the vets with the stomach pains,all they do is give her a painkilling injection, which doesn't last long,
> Should I just try her with Katalax, before I take her back, [maybe to a different vet next time] cant bear seeing her with pain which makes her growl as if giving birth


I agree, think you should seek out a different vet who will look for the cause. Pancreatitis causes severe abdominal pain for instance and is easily blood tested for.


----------



## Tao2

Nice to read updates on here, we've all been a bit quiet lately. My news is not so good: Mittens is not well, she has started to retain fluid and is very subdued. Her heart rate is very high and her breathing erratic. Not good. She has started on a new drug today to try to clear the fluid but if that does not show a significant improvement by tomorrow.....well, will have to decide if it is in her best interest to persevere. :frown5: Will keep you all posted, fingers crossed that the drug (can't remember the name of it) kicks in and buys her a bit more time.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nice to read updates on here, we've all been a bit quiet lately. My news is not so good: Mittens is not well, she has started to retain fluid and is very subdued. Her heart rate is very high and her breathing erratic. Not good. She has started on a new drug today to try to clear the fluid but if that does not show a significant improvement by tomorrow.....well, will have to decide if it is in her best interest to persevere. :frown5: Will keep you all posted, fingers crossed that the drug (can't remember the name of it) kicks in and buys her a bit more time.


Oh Hun..sending you so many positive vibes your way..I hope the drug does work. I can't even think how I would be in your shoes..big hug for you and gentle paw from Riley for mittens xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Past two nights Riley has had the runs  he is also looking skinny again  he is booked in for the 10th so will get a weight check then.

His coat and condition remains good, which is a positive thing..

He has a bit of poo on his tail..I'm gearing up to cleaning as I tried earlier and he turned into that girl from that film that turned her head around..what's it called now?

How can they go from well to not well so quickly..


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to Riley and Mittens aren't well. Will be thinking of you Tao2 and Mittens. Hope the new drug works.

No dire rear for Karlo:. However we've been to emergency vets with him as he couldn't pee. poor lad has cystitis. Vet seemed to think he could do with losing some weight!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Sorry to Riley and Mittens aren't well. Will be thinking of you Tao2 and Mittens. Hope the new drug works.
> 
> No dire rear for Karlo:. However we've been to emergency vets with him as he couldn't pee. poor lad has cystitis. Vet seemed to think he could do with losing some weight!


Oh poor boy..hope he is weeing now..sending some wee vibes for him..

And they say ibd cats loose weight 

I would keep him on the chunky side


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Nice to read updates on here, we've all been a bit quiet lately. My news is not so good: Mittens is not well, she has started to retain fluid and is very subdued. Her heart rate is very high and her breathing erratic. Not good. She has started on a new drug today to try to clear the fluid but if that does not show a significant improvement by tomorrow.....well, will have to decide if it is in her best interest to persevere. :frown5: Will keep you all posted, fingers crossed that the drug (can't remember the name of it) kicks in and buys her a bit more time.


So very sorry to read this ,poor Mittens  Really hoping that this new drug will help her and give her a bit more time with you .Take care xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Past two nights Riley has had the runs  he is also looking skinny again  he is booked in for the 10th so will get a weight check then.
> 
> His coat and condition remains good, which is a positive thing..
> 
> He has a bit of poo on his tail..I'm gearing up to cleaning as I tried earlier and he turned into that girl from that film that turned her head around..what's it called now?
> 
> How can they go from well to not well so quickly..


Sorry Nicola I missed this Fingers crossed this is just a blip and Mr R is soon back to solids again,this bl**dy IBD is a law unto its self 



Cazzer said:


> Sorry to Riley and Mittens aren't well. Will be thinking of you Tao2 and Mittens. Hope the new drug works.
> 
> No dire rear for Karlo:. However we've been to emergency vets with him as he couldn't pee. poor lad has cystitis. Vet seemed to think he could do with losing some weight!


Poor Karlo if it isn't one thing its another hope he is feeling better soon.


----------



## buffie

jaycee05 said:


> She has not lost any weight at all, as I have read most cats with colitis do, in fact she is quite big around her middle, but taking her to a different vet this time, different practice


Agree with the others a new vet may see something your other vet has missed,there are lots of tests and procedures that can be carried out to try to find the cause.


----------



## KathinUK

jaycee05 said:


> .... I am not convinced it IS colitis, she gets some really bad stomach pains where she doubles up,and then has diarrohea,
> 
> Today she had a big furball in it, I have never known a furball to come out that end, she used to throw furballs up a lot, but doesn't much now, and I am really wondering if its more of a blockage she has
> Has anyone else seen furballs come out this way?


Jaycee, when I had the two rawfed kitties [RIP Handsome Wispe] most of their poop gradually degraded into clumps of fur! Y'know the stuff left in the garden in spring :001_rolleyes:

Apparently this is the way that fur is supposed to pass through them, not by throwing furballs, which I read is an indication that all is not _f-l-o-w-i-n-g s-m-o-o-t-h-l-y_
And when you think about it, it does make sense.

Kath


----------



## Cazzer

Yes I've been told that as well Kath, by one of my vets and that bringing up fur balls is a sign something isn't quite right. She went onto say often what isn't right is that the cat has IBS or IBD. Certainly Karlo brings up fur balls and most of my other cats don't!


----------



## Tao2

Drug not working. She is perkier today though, so just going to see how she goes over next couple of days.....


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Drug not working. She is perkier today though, so just going to see how she goes over next couple of days.....


Sorry to read this  hope Mittens manages to cope for a while yet,sending some positive vibes your way xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Drug not working. She is perkier today though, so just going to see how she goes over next couple of days.....


Really sorry to hear this..topping up those positive vibes xx


----------



## nicolaa123

It's all a bit weird..I managed to witness a tray deposit tonight, he has past couple day needed a lot if bum wiping. Partly my fault as I have been out of routine so I've not judged poo time I think and it's less of a bum wipe when he poos in the tray and I'm there to take the litter tray away..now I know why.

He had a good poo to start then it was sloppy, it was like that chocolate sauce you put on ice cream..(sorry for graphic description)

After he finished I took the tray away for examining..he then went to the hallway and scooted. So I'm thinking when it's runny he must be scooting in his own poo, hence why it's up his tail and not as I thought the poo is exploding up his tail.

So something is irritating him on the way out again  it is likely to be the pills, it must be as that's the only thing that has changed.

Otherwise he is now reacting to the kangaroo and if that's the case I'm big time stuck! Like I have no current alternative I can feed him..


----------



## Cazzer

Topping up the vibes for the lovely Mittens. Hoping that those tablets start to help!

Oh Nicola don't know what to say about Riley. Really hope it isn't the case re the kangaroo.

Meanwhile at chez Karlo I am pleased to report that he's been as good as gold with his tablets. I've not seen him wee but he certainly isn't sitting in the tray doing nothing as he was last night. 

Makes a change to be on wee watch instead of poo watch!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Topping up the vibes for the lovely Mittens. Hoping that those tablets start to help!
> 
> Oh Nicola don't know what to say about Riley. Really hope it isn't the case re the kangaroo.
> 
> Meanwhile at chez Karlo I am pleased to report that he's been as good as gold with his tablets. I've not seen him wee but he certainly isn't sitting in the tray doing nothing as he was last night.
> 
> Makes a change to be on wee watch instead of poo watch!


Oh I dream of wee watch  really hope Karlo has big long wee's!


----------



## nicolaa123

Well..I've increased the pumpkin and did come home to a nice solid tray deposit!

Vet called and has put back his blood tests as she needs to see him at the normal practise we goto and not there smaller one as there are more nurses on hand for him as he can be "difficult" ..which is fine as better for Riley..but means I have to wait an extra week  still at least we only have a week left of the monumental pill routine!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well..*I've increased the pumpkin and did come home to a nice solid tray deposit!*
> 
> Vet called and has put back his blood tests as she needs to see him at the normal practise we goto and not there smaller one as there are more nurses on hand for him as he can be "difficult" ..which is fine as better for Riley..but means I have to wait an extra week  still at least we only have a week left of the monumental pill routine!


:thumbup::thumbup: For solid tray deposit  Pity about putting back the bloods but at least there will be plenty nurses on hand to hold his little paw............and head .........and body etc


----------



## Cazzer

Well done Riley!


----------



## Tao2

Just an update on deathwatch....Mittens was booked on to be PTS yesterday after thinking she had no quality of life left. Then yesterday morning she got up, ate breakfast and spent an hour in the garden before retiring to the sofa. So appointment got cancelled!! Thank goodness!!!

Is really horrible constantly looking at her and trying to decide when the right time is.....but she is pretty chipper today as well so today is not the day. My vet (who thinks it is his mission in life to quash any false hopes I might be harbouring) assures me they quite often rally briefly before the end. So going on that, it will happen this weekend and will be an OOH job with some vet I don't know.:nonod:


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just an update on deathwatch....Mittens was booked on to be PTS yesterday after thinking she had no quality of life left. Then yesterday morning she got up, ate breakfast and spent an hour in the garden before retiring to the sofa. So appointment got cancelled!! Thank goodness!!!
> 
> Is really horrible constantly looking at her and trying to decide when the right time is.....but she is pretty chipper today as well so today is not the day. My vet (who thinks it is his mission in life to quash any false hopes I might be harbouring) assures me they quite often rally briefly before the end. So going on that, it will happen this weekend and will be an OOH job with some vet I don't know.:nonod:


Oh gosh I don't really know what to say,this is such a difficult time for you ,not wanting Mittens to suffer but on the other hand not wanting to make the decision too soon either.
Thinking of you and hoping that when you do have to keep that dreaded appointment it is all as peaceful as it is possible for such a sad event to be.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Just an update on deathwatch....Mittens was booked on to be PTS yesterday after thinking she had no quality of life left. Then yesterday morning she got up, ate breakfast and spent an hour in the garden before retiring to the sofa. So appointment got cancelled!! Thank goodness!!!
> 
> Is really horrible constantly looking at her and trying to decide when the right time is.....but she is pretty chipper today as well so today is not the day. My vet (who thinks it is his mission in life to quash any false hopes I might be harbouring) assures me they quite often rally briefly before the end. So going on that, it will happen this weekend and will be an OOH job with some vet I don't know.:nonod:


Really sorry to read about mittens..really hope when the time is right it's a peaceful sleep for her..

Hug for you xx


----------



## Cazzer

Tao2 said:


> Just an update on deathwatch....Mittens was booked on to be PTS yesterday after thinking she had no quality of life left. Then yesterday morning she got up, ate breakfast and spent an hour in the garden before retiring to the sofa. So appointment got cancelled!! Thank goodness!!!
> 
> Is really horrible constantly looking at her and trying to decide when the right time is.....but she is pretty chipper today as well so today is not the day. My vet (who thinks it is his mission in life to quash any false hopes I might be harbouring) assures me they quite often rally briefly before the end. So going on that, it will happen this weekend and will be an OOH job with some vet I don't know.:nonod:


Oh no I do feel for you. I remember with my Candie who have kidney disease I made the appointment for the Friday. She then ate well so we cancelled. She then had a lovely weekend pootling around the garden in glorious sunshine. But she stopped eating. She was then PTS on the Monday. I still worry though whether she would have rallied again and that I'd had her put to sleep too early.

Will be thinking of you both x x


----------



## catcoonz

Sorry you are going through this heartbreaking time.
Hugs to you and mittens. xx


----------



## Paddypaws

Thinking of you and Mittens, Tao.


----------



## Ianthi

Tao2 said:


> .. My news is not so good: Mittens is not well, she has started to retain fluid and is very subdued. Her heart rate is very high and her breathing erratic. Not good. She has started on a new drug today to try to clear the fluid but if that does not show a significant improvement by tomorrow.....well, will have to decide if it is in her best interest to persevere. :frown5: Will keep you all posted, fingers crossed that the drug (can't remember the name of it) kicks in and buys her a bit more time.


Sorry to hear this Tao. (I haven't been here for a while but just read other thread) You mean abdominal fluid? I think the drugs are most probably Furosemide or Spironolactone. Ideally your vet should be consulting with a specialist on this. Actually Tao this sounds like cholangitis to me (taking history into account as well) and not a tumour and I would suspect the non-infectious form? Is Mittens on any antibiotics? Or steroids? This link written by a UK specialist should help to narrow it down and advise on treatments.

Liver Disease in Cats: Notes | Veterinary CPD | Veterinary Education | Vet CPD | The Webinar Vet


----------



## Tao2

Ianthi said:


> Sorry to hear this Tao. (I haven't been here for a while but just read other thread) You mean abdominal fluid? I think the drugs are most probably Furosemide or Spironolactone. Ideally your vet should be consulting with a specialist on this. Actually Tao this sounds like cholangitis to me (taking history into account as well) and not a tumour and I would suspect the non-infectious form? Is Mittens on any antibiotics? Or steroids? This link written by a UK specialist should help to narrow it down and advise on treatments.
> 
> Liver Disease in Cats: Notes | Veterinary CPD | Veterinary Education | Vet CPD | The Webinar Vet


Hi Ianthi, thanks for link will look and yes she is on both antibiotics (metronidazole) and steroids (larabalin?), she has been since she was diagnosed. Oh, and vitamin B supps, and denamarin and furosemide and famotidine and loxicom and the kitchen sink....don't know whether I'm coming or going with all the meds and the poor Fluff Beast never gets his teeth cleaned these days!:nonod:.....The only good thing that has come out of this is that I have really got to know my vet and now have absolute faith in him. Which is a first for me.


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm sure fluff beast won't mind


----------



## Ianthi

Tao2 said:


> Hi Ianthi, thanks for link will look and yes she is on both antibiotics (metronidazole) and steroids (larabalin?), she has been since she was diagnosed. Oh, and vitamin B supps, and denamarin and furosemide and famotidine and loxicom and the kitchen sink....don't know whether I'm coming or going with all the meds and the poor Fluff Beast never gets his teeth cleaned these days!:nonod:.....The only good thing that has come out of this is that I have really got to know my vet and now have absolute faith in him. Which is a first for me.


I'm glad you've updated. I've been wondering how you're both doing. Gosh, quite a lot of medications. Is Mittens still eating and is fluid dispersing? I think you mean Laurabolin which is an _anabolic_ steroid. Is Mittens anaemic as well or underweight, perhaps?


----------



## Tao2

Hi, yes she is anaemic and extremely underweight, skeletal in fact. Fluid not dispersing, it's getting worse....oh and she is yellow and her lovely blue eyes have turned green. Is very sad to see.....having said all that, she is still drinking and eating reasonably well.


----------



## Ianthi

Tao2 said:


> Hi, yes she is anaemic and extremely underweight, skeletal in fact. Fluid not dispersing, it's getting worse....oh and she is yellow and her lovely blue eyes have turned green. Is very sad to see.....having said all that, she is still drinking and eating reasonably well.


The anaemia doesn't surprise me (chronic illness type but usually resolves when condition does) and I meant to ask if she was jaundiced before and it sounds as if this is the case now. Right, I did recall that Laurabolin can be hepatotoxic and looked it up to make sure. Personally I wouldn't use it in a cat with liver problems and I'd discuss with your vet.

NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Laurabolin 25 mg/ml Solution for injection - Contra-indications, warnings, etc

I know it must be a very stressful time for you but I'd also have a good read of that link. I believe the fact she's eating and drinking well is a good sign and I do wonder if with careful management is may be possible to turn things round.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Tao2

Cazzer said:


> Oh no I do feel for you. I remember with my Candie who have kidney disease I made the appointment for the Friday. She then ate well so we cancelled. She then had a lovely weekend pootling around the garden in glorious sunshine. But she stopped eating. She was then PTS on the Monday. I still worry though whether she would have rallied again and that I'd had her put to sleep too early.
> 
> Will be thinking of you both x x


I agree totally with you Cazzer. It is such a difficult decision when they are up and down, so hard to tell if those spells when they are feeling a bit better make it worthwhile. I am hoping that as long as I do it for HER welfare and not because we can't bear to lose her, then we won't go too far wrong with the timing.


----------



## Tao2

Ianthi said:


> The anaemia doesn't surprise me (chronic illness type but usually resolves when condition does) and I meant to ask if she was jaundiced before and it sounds as if this is the case now. Right, I did recall that Laurabolin can be hepatotoxic and looked it up to make sure. Personally I wouldn't use it in a cat with liver problems and I'd discuss with your vet.
> 
> NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Laurabolin 25 mg/ml Solution for injection - Contra-indications, warnings, etc
> 
> I know it must be a very stressful time for you but I'd also have a good read of that link. I believe the fact she's eating and drinking well is a good sign and I do wonder if with careful management is may be possible to turn things round.
> I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.


Hope you are right. It does come back to me through the fog in my brain, that she is on a reduced dose of the steroid, maybe that is why. She is actually due a dose of it but I think I will give it a miss in the light of your comments and also to save her the stress of yet another visit to the vet when she is so low....


----------



## Ianthi

OK a reduced dose but (I'd certainly discuss with him as he may have some extenuating reasons) I wouldn't give it to her or any other drugs that are hepatotoxic. How often are the shots? I know it's been implicated in the US in causing liver problems-I guess maybe in predisposed cats. I agree about the stress in that even though vet visits are deemed necessary IMO they can really exascerbate the condition in certain (if not most!) animals.

You must be really tired now....I can appreciate this can be so stressful but Mittens is only a young cat and I hope she turns a corner for you and the liver is capable of regenerating. In your position I would discuss link (over the phone) with your vet and see if it helps! At least try and find out which form he suspects.

Good luck!


----------



## lostbear

Poor, poor baby. Prayers and Reiki healing coming to him.


----------



## spid

Positive vibes winging their way to you.


----------



## Tao2

Ianthi said:


> OK a reduced dose but (I'd certainly discuss with him as he may have some extenuating reasons) I wouldn't give it to her or any other drugs that are hepatotoxic. How often are the shots? I know it's been implicated in the US in causing liver problems-I guess maybe in predisposed cats. I agree about the stress in that even though vet visits are deemed necessary IMO they can really exascerbate the condition in certain (if not most!) animals.
> 
> You must be really tired now....I can appreciate this can be so stressful but Mittens is only a young cat and I hope she turns a corner for you and the liver is capable of regenerating. In your position I would discuss link (over the phone) with your vet and see if it helps! At least try and find out which form he suspects.
> 
> Good luck!


Hi everyone, thanks so much for kind words. Mittens is still hanging in there although up and down.

Ianthi, Mittens has been having the steroid injection once every 6 weeks. As regards suspected cause, I did not want invasive distressing biopsies etc so vet has just gone on blood test results, ultrasound, X rays and palpation. Initially thought that it most likely to be a tumour looking at ultrasound although did say could also be cirrhosis. I think the fact that she has survived this long and there has not been significant increase in size of the liver means cirrhosis more likely, although not sure.


----------



## Ianthi

Every 6 weeks on a reduced dose isn't so bad. I thought the injections were more frequent. I totally agree about the invasive investigations. Given her history (and breed) I would have thought cancer less likely. 

Fingers crossed for you and Mittens!


----------



## Tao2

Just wanted to update everyone on Mittens progress. She had a reasonable weekend so am really happy that I didn't have her pts on Thursday. However, things have been pretty dire since Sunday night and am currently waiting to see if a last ditch diuretic injection (she had it yesterday afternoon) will make her more comfortable. Fluid has reduced (following some SERIOUS weeing after the injection, flooded my kitchen!!) but so far, she is not improved.....


----------



## buffie

Tao2 said:


> Just wanted to update everyone on Mittens progress. She had a reasonable weekend so am really happy that I didn't have her pts on Thursday. However, things have been pretty dire since Sunday night and am currently waiting to see if a last ditch diuretic injection (she had it yesterday afternoon) will make her more comfortable. Fluid has reduced (following some SERIOUS weeing after the injection, flooded my kitchen!!) but so far, she is not improved.....


So very sorry to read this,sending you and the gorgeous Mittens positive vibes and hoping that she can have a while longer with you xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Just wanted to update everyone on Mittens progress. She had a reasonable weekend so am really happy that I didn't have her pts on Thursday. However, things have been pretty dire since Sunday night and am currently waiting to see if a last ditch diuretic injection (she had it yesterday afternoon) will make her more comfortable. Fluid has reduced (following some SERIOUS weeing after the injection, flooded my kitchen!!) but so far, she is not improved.....


Any more news? You are both in my thoughts x


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm wondering if Riley has some sort of behaviour problem regarding his poo.

So all week we have had tray deposits, some runny, some half and half, last nights I would almost say perfect (for him) 

Today I was in the garden sorting out the overgrown ness that is my garden..

I thought would be safe for him to come with me as he had a poo last night and he is normally every 24 hours.. I'm busy cutting and hacking and he comes up to me with poo the length of his tail! Plus all over his bum. Why does it some times that when I'm not there to take the poo away he sits and rubs his bum in it? But some times he doesn't rub his bum in it when I'm not there


----------



## Tao2

nicolaa123 said:


> Any more news? You are both in my thoughts x


Sad news. She was pts this morning. I am utterly devastated, thought I had got my head around it but I am in bits. I know it was the right decision for her welfare but very hard for us to lose her. Will put up a thread on the main forum.

Thanks to all of you for your support and advice.


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Sad news. She was pts this morning. I am utterly devastated, thought I had got my head around it but I am in bits. I know it was the right decision for her welfare but very hard for us to lose her. Will put up a thread on the main forum.
> 
> Thanks to all of you for your support and advice.


Oh Hun..I had a feeling..I'm devastated for you and got tears rolling down my face as I write this..

Sleep well mittens..you was loved so much and your slave will miss you so much as will fluff beast, but don't worry we will all be here to look after both of them..xx


----------



## KathinUK

Oh I'm so very sorry to hear the news about your lovely Mittens Tao.

May you find comfort in knowing you did your best.

Kath


----------



## nicolaa123

Thought I would update on Riley..his bum is better again, although he did have some fresh blood on his bum after going tonight so I'm cutting back on the pumpkin to make sure it's easy to pass. It's difficult as it's a fine measure to much or too little.

Bloods this week for his liver..I'm quietly nervous, but he seems good in himself so I'm hopefull.

Hope all others are doing well..

Still thinking of mittens xx


----------



## buffie

Good to read that Riley's bum is behaving....how weird does that sound   .Hope the bloods are okay and that his liver is coping well.
Meeko is "as was" still intermittent vomit but seems well and no loss of weight or appetite.Back to vets at end of the month for a check and poss blood test to check all is well.


----------



## nicolaa123

Now 4.23 kg so going in the right direction..if we could get to 4.4kg I would be happy with him at that weight..

Hopefully more good news tomorrow..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Now 4.23 kg so going in the right direction..if we could get to 4.4kg I would be happy with him at that weight..
> 
> Hopefully more good news tomorrow..


Just replied on your thread in CC but :thumbup: :thumbup: again for the weight increase and hoping the good news continues with the blood results tomorrow


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just replied on your thread in CC but :thumbup: :thumbup: again for the weight increase and hoping the good news continues with the blood results tomorrow


It's been a really long year for little man..just hope that we get good results and we can now move forward..


----------



## nicolaa123

To update on here..alt and ast reduced so liver is starting to behave..poo wise we are doing better..

Time to think about fiord again..going to think about venison again..in January after his next blood test..

I feel little bit guilty saying thus after poor mittens she will alway be in my thoughts xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Got more pills today (great having vet open on a Sunday) hopefully this should be the last lot..

He gave me the scare of my life this morning!!

I got up and he was in his cat carrier..he got out and then laid on the floor..he then started dragging himself along the carpet with one leg, miaowing quite loudly..I was like what's happening what is wrong!

I think he had one claw caught on the carpet and could not get up as when I went down to the floor thinking oh god he has broken a leg or something..he got up chased after a Ping pong ball then demanded his breakfast!

Scared the hell out of me!!


----------



## Tao2

Nicola am so chuffed that Rileys liver readings have improved, that is brilliant news!! Give him a big cuddle from me and Fluff Beast. Actually, think he might be a bit crushed by a cuddle from ginormous Fluff Beast, diet having no impact thus far......but teeth cleaning going well....well, I am still alive and as yet no permanent scarring....


----------



## nicolaa123

Tao2 said:


> Nicola am so chuffed that Rileys liver readings have improved, that is brilliant news!! Give him a big cuddle from me and Fluff Beast. Actually, think he might be a bit crushed by a cuddle from ginormous Fluff Beast, diet having no impact thus far......but teeth cleaning going well....well, I am still alive and as yet no permanent scarring....


Thanks Hun xx

He continues to do ok..he is not eating as much about 200g which is enough and I'm not overly concerned. He has had a couple of "haunched" times but more often than not he has been good..bum wise I'm getting good tray deposits (he is on a day time poo regime at the moment) there was a lot in the tray today, but mostly the normal poo with what looked like a little runny at the end.

Not having to clean him up for a fair while I caught myself thinking..this must be what it's like having a "normal" cat! Now I know I've been there before, but I'm taking the pleasure  and secretly praying no more flare ups, no more flare ups..

Fb and I need to do fat club together..I've been so stressed with work lately, my eating has been all over the (bad) shop


----------



## nicolaa123

Bit concerned..just found Riley licking the frying pan which I had cooked an omelette in earlier..It's a sign when he does the whole scavenging bit..oh I hope we arnt going into another flare up


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Bit concerned..just found Riley licking the frying pan which I had cooked an omelette in earlier..It's a sign when he does the whole scavenging bit..oh I hope we arnt going into another flare up


Hope this isn't a sign of something nasty lurking,Riley has been doing so well I would hate to read that he has had another flare up 
Meeko is off to see his friend the V.E.T on Thursday for a check and poss blood tests ,he is still being sick occasionally so something is going on ,but what


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope this isn't a sign of something nasty lurking,Riley has been doing so well I would hate to read that he has had another flare up
> Meeko is off to see his friend the V.E.T on Thursday for a check and poss blood tests ,he is still being sick occasionally so something is going on ,but what


Riley is doing well, so I might be reading more into it  but you know what it's like with ibd  it may even be clocks going back you know how sensitive they can be 

Hope Meeko has a good visit.. What will the bloods test for?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley is doing well, so I might be reading more into it  but you know what it's like with ibd  it may even be clocks going back you know how sensitive they can be
> 
> Hope Meeko has a good visit.. What will the bloods test for?


Fingers crossed it is just a "cat thing" and there is nothing going on with Mr R 
Not sure about bloods to be honest,I just remember Scott saying that there was something which could be causing him to feel nauseous and that they can give supplements to help.It is something that has been tested for before but could be showing a change now.I really should write things down  
I'm thinking folic acid but that may be total rubbish  it was ,I'm sure something beginning with an F


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Fingers crossed it is just a "cat thing" and there is nothing going on with Mr R
> Not sure about bloods to be honest,I just remember Scott saying that there was something which could be causing him to feel nauseous and that they can give supplements to help.It is something that has been tested for before but could be showing a change now.I really should write things down
> I'm thinking folic acid but that may be total rubbish  it was ,I'm sure something beginning with an F


Not sure what that could be either  mind our cats have the problem at different end  fingers crossed for a good visit..

Riley had a runny bum earlier


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Not sure what that could be either  mind our cats have the problem at different end  fingers crossed for a good visit..
> 
> Riley had a runny bum earlier


Oh poor Riley hope it is just a blip,will let you know how it goes.


----------



## buffie

Back ,vet is fairly pleased with Meeko he has lost approx. 150gms but nothing too worrying.Physical exam passed with flying colours and vet said if he was his cat he would leave well alone and just monitor and go back if he deteriorates.Blood tests were for cobalamin and folate (b12 I think) but he doubts there is any point in stressing him at the moment.So just "as we were" for the time being


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Back ,vet is fairly pleased with Meeko he has lost approx. 150gms but nothing too worrying.Physical exam passed with flying colours and vet said if he was his cat he would leave well alone and just monitor and go back if he deteriorates.Blood tests were for cobalamin and folate (b12 I think) but he doubts there is any point in stressing him at the moment.So just "as we were" for the time being


Pleased all went as well as it could


----------



## Cazzer

Well done Mr Meeko!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased all went as well as it could





Cazzer said:


> Well done Mr Meeko!


Thanks guys .
He has just thanked me by :arf: ing from the top of the central heating boiler  It don't half splatter when dropped from a great height


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks guys .
> He has just thanked me by :arf: ing from the top of the central heating boiler  It don't have splatter when dropped from a great height


Oh no! I've just combed a lump of poo from his trousers! Oh the joys!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no! I've just combed a lump of poo from his trousers! Oh the joys!


Just as well we're not squeamish :yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just as well we're not squeamish :yikes:


Yup! At the hedgehog hospital last Sunday I was taking samples of poo, green mucus ones, mucus ones with blood and the occasional normal one..smelly stinky poo..still did it with a smile on my face   :yikes:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yup! At the hedgehog hospital last Sunday I was taking samples of poo, green mucus ones, mucus ones with blood and the occasional normal one..smelly stinky poo..still did it with a smile on my face   :yikes:


I don't doubt that for one minute


----------



## Cazzer

I almost choked on my coffee reading about them both!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I don't doubt that for one minute


Oh I am so loving it, we have so many in at the moment..lots of young ones coming in at the moment..I wish I could go every day to help them..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I almost choked on my coffee reading about them both!


I think I look at Riley's bum more times than I look at his face


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh I am so loving it, we have so many in at the moment..lots of young ones coming in at the moment..I wish I could go every day to help them..


Glad you are getting to do something you feel passionate about,making a difference to these little guys lives is good for them but also great for the environment .If people would only realise they are a gardeners friend and just make a little bit of space for them.


----------



## nicolaa123

Last couple of days he had been better..no tail wipers..

This morning I woke up to cow pat in the tray and poo over the carpets, in the hallway, bathroom and living room  wish I had been awake to see just what happened as I can't fathom how he did it, unless again as it was runny he wiped his tail in the poo then wiped it over the carpet, but then there was little bits of poo around also, so maybe was just so urgent 

He is fine in himself..I just don't know what to do :thumbdown:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Last couple of days he had been better..no tail wipers..
> 
> This morning I woke up to cow pat in the tray and poo over the carpets, in the hallway, bathroom and living room  wish I had been awake to see just what happened as I can't fathom how he did it, unless again as it was runny he wiped his tail in the poo then wiped it over the carpet, but then there was little bits of poo around also, so maybe was just so urgent
> 
> He is fine in himself..I just don't know what to do :thumbdown:


Oh sh*t no pun intended  How depressing,hopefully although really messy there is *in Riley's mind" a logical reason for this.
I can be of no help what so ever regarding "what you can do" it seems to be his way of dealing with a dirty bottom.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh sh*t no pun intended  How depressing,hopefully although really messy there is *in Riley's mind" a logical reason for this.
> I can be of no help what so ever regarding "what you can do" it seems to be his way of dealing with a dirty bottom.


I thinking some sort of cat nappy


----------



## Cazzer

Kaisa does this too. She is Karlo's sister and although she doesn't have IBD give her too much bozita or Smilla and she has problems. I'm trying to use up the bozita/Smilla on the other cats. I'm also trying to use up Grau heart and liver as it's about to go out of date. Stupidly yesterday I fed the Grau after giving bozita Friday night. Yesterday whilst we were watching tv she came into lounge and cleaned herself by wiping her bum all along a cream carpet. It was also in her thick fluffy NFC tail :yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Kaisa does this too. She is Karlo's sister and although she doesn't have IBD give her too much bozita or Smilla and she has problems. I'm trying to use up the bozita/Smilla on the other cats. I'm also trying to use up Grau heart and liver as it's about to go out of date. Stupidly yesterday I fed the Grau after giving bozita Friday night. Yesterday whilst we were watching tv she came into lounge and cleaned herself by wiping her bum all along a cream carpet. It was also in her thick fluffy NFC tail :yikes:


You have a cream carpet :yikes: :yikes:

Maybe I could design a cat nappy for our cats


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You have a cream carpet :yikes: :yikes:
> 
> Maybe I could design a cat nappy for our cats


While you are at it can you try to design a "vomit catcher" please :arf:


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Kaisa does this too. She is Karlo's sister and although she doesn't have IBD give her too much bozita or Smilla and she has problems. I'm trying to use up the bozita/Smilla on the other cats. I'm also trying to use up Grau heart and liver as it's about to go out of date. Stupidly yesterday I fed the Grau after giving bozita Friday night. * Yesterday whilst we were watching tv she came into lounge and cleaned herself by wiping her bum all along a cream carpet.* It was also in her thick fluffy NFC tail :yikes:


:yikes: :arf: :arf:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well eventually we have had a deposit..a massive long one  bit squidgy on the end but no dramas :thumbup: he did scoot on the new bathroom mat not sure why as his bum was clean 

Ab's have now stopped he us just on the liver meds once per day and the chlorambucil once per week. I am expecting a bit of a runny time after the ab's have stopped as he has been on a hefty dose for a long time. 

It was nice for a non-tail wiper :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well all good so far..no tail wiping needed  :thumbup1:

Just on the liver med once a day..it's so nice not having to give so many tablets a day!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well all good so far..no tail wiping needed  :thumbup1:
> 
> Just on the liver med once a day..it's so nice not having to give so many tablets a day!


That sounds more positive,lets hope he keeps it up.........(I have to keep stopping myself speaking in "bro speak"by mistake )


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> That sounds more positive,lets hope he keeps it up.........(I have to keep stopping myself speaking in "bro speak"by mistake )


Riley is actually asleep in his new cardboard house  I'm just saving his street cred 

Am I mad??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley is actually asleep in his new cardboard house  I'm just saving his street cred
> 
> *Am I mad?? *


:yesnod: :yesnod: :lol: :lol: but no more than the rest of us


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :yesnod: :yesnod: :lol: :lol: but no more than the rest of us


I would take a photo but don't want to wake him  he is all snuggled 

I'm feeling mad tonight, got a blinkin chilblain on my knuckle and it's driving me mad :mad2:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I would take a photo but don't want to wake him  he is all snuggled
> 
> I'm feeling mad tonight, got a blinkin chilblain on my knuckle and it's driving me mad :mad2:


Oucheeeeeeeee


----------



## nicolaa123

I feel like I'm going mental 

We are back to intermittent diarrhoea again  it's so blinking odd. He goes in tray all good so I'm trying to time the poo so always a tray deposit then he does one..then I let him out as my ears are bleeding from the complaining and he comes back in with a dirty bum and tail!

It can't be food can it? He has had a bad time using the tray but most of the time he is fine..

He is absolutely fine in himself..

He will send me to the funny farm I'm sure


----------



## nicolaa123

We have started a period of house arrest! Only taken 3 hours to convince him that being inside is "fun" with lots of cuddles..oh and half a bottle of wine (for me not him  )

Just need to get on top of this.

Could be reaction to stopping the antibiotics..?

If it's the kangaroo I'm big time stuck! 




On a positive note he is not like he was before I don't feel he is poorly like before..just the return of the runny bum..

I know there is another drug tho he can have if I can't get on top of it..I just don't want to be back at the vets as yet..


I hate ibd


----------



## buffie

Sorry Nicola ,missed your posts.
What a nuisance Rileys "bum issues" have returned .
Cant really be of any help as "thankfully" Meeko doesn't have these problems .You would hope if the kangaroo was behind it (sorry no pun intended) it would have shown up by now,but,we both know IBD has its own rules.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry Nicola ,missed your posts.
> What a nuisance Rileys "bum issues" have returned .
> Cant really be of any help as "thankfully" Meeko doesn't have these problems .You would hope if the kangaroo was behind it (sorry no pun intended) it would have shown up by now,but,we both know IBD has its own rules.


I'm thankful he is not "ill" I know you will understand that even tho he has a runny bum..

I'm wondering again if it's behaviour related..as in he has a poo then rubs it over himself when he goes outside ut: as apart from a few times when he has used his tray when he has had a mucky bum he has not rubbed it over his tail. Tho I'm not denying the runny poo is back..but I think we will always have an element of a runny bum..

Plus if we are talking novel protein I'm stuck..and why is it when I keep him in even tho it's "poo time" he can hang on to it! That says to me it's not exclusively food related..

..but again ibd has it's own rules you are right


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm thankful he is not "ill" I know you will understand that even tho he has a runny bum..
> 
> I'm wondering again if it's behaviour related..as in he has a poo then rubs it over himself when he goes outside ut: as apart from a few times when he has used his tray when he has had a mucky bum he has not rubbed it over his tail. Tho I'm not denying the runny poo is back..but I think we will always have an element of a runny bum..
> *
> Plus if we are talking novel protein I'm stuck..and why is it when I keep him in even tho it's "poo time" he can hang on to it*! That says to me it's not exclusively food related..
> 
> ..but again ibd has it's own rules you are right


Does seem odd that he can hang on to "dire rear" the very nature of the beast says that's impossible  as for the not ill bit yep I get that,Meeko is still vomiting occasionally but he isn't ill either,or at least not obviously so.
The only other thing I think that could/can play a part in the mystery of IBD is stress,not that I am saying either Riley or Meeko are stressed but maybe there is something which is upsetting them that we are not aware of.
At the moment he couldn't look less stressed ,he is lying fully stretched out on his fleece covered pillow up on the sofa So I'm going to nip off to bed before he wakes up


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Does seem odd that he can hang on to "dire rear" the very nature of the beast says that's impossible  as for the not ill bit yep I get that,Meeko is still vomiting occasionally but he isn't ill either,or at least not obviously so.
> The only other thing I think that could/can play a part in the mystery of IBD is stress,not that I am saying either Riley or Meeko are stressed but maybe there is something which is upsetting them that we are not aware of.
> At the moment he couldn't look less stressed ,he is lying fully stretched out on his fleece covered pillow up on the sofa So I'm going to nip off to bed before he wakes up


I wondered about stress..I know he would like me at home at his beck and call..

He is currently tucking into supper so no stress there either!

Nite sleep well xx


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## nicolaa123

Finally he has been..it was a half and half..firm at the beginning then looser at the end but no dramas..quick one pat of the bum as tiny bit still on his bum..no dramas!

Just does not make sense!! If it's behaviour no way would he lay on a couch 

Still I'm thankful for normal bum


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## jenny armour

hi, am asking on behalf of someone else.she has ragdoll x kitten approx. 12 weeks old that has very soft poo. what would be better for a kitten of that age to give her? I have suggested rc gastro intestinal but not sure if that is 
appropriate for a kitten of that age?


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## buffie

jenny armour said:


> hi, am asking on behalf of someone else.she has ragdoll x kitten approx. 12 weeks old that has very soft poo. what would be better for a kitten of that age to give her? I have suggested rc gastro intestinal but not sure if that is
> appropriate for a kitten of that age?


 Jenny I think boiled chicken for a few days to see if it will clear it up is what is usually suggested and giving some of the cooled broth it has been cooked in can be useful to help with any possible dehydration .Has the kitten been seen by a vet to rule out all the usual suspects.


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## jenny armour

I don't think so buffie, and she said chicken hasn't helped. sounds like a vet visit to me to eradicate any medical problems don't you think?


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## buffie

jenny armour said:


> I don't think so buffie, and she said chicken hasn't helped. sounds like a vet visit to me to eradicate any medical problems don't you think?


Sorry went to bed early  sounds like a vet visit is necessary as we both know it could be a lot of things causing it,not just diet ,so best to get it checked out.


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## nicolaa123

I just want to scream..the bad times are back again..

I've stopped the pumpkin to see if that makes a difference. I will also talk with my vet next week about trying the other medicine..did not really want to give it as it has not been used to treat ibd before..but I don't have any other choice.

Food wise I'm out of ideas as he can't eat or won't eat so much.

I could really really scream right now


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I just want to scream..the bad times are back again..
> 
> I've stopped the pumpkin to see if that makes a difference. I will also talk with my vet next week about trying the other medicine..did not really want to give it as it has not been used to treat ibd before..but I don't have any other choice.
> 
> Food wise I'm out of ideas as he can't eat or won't eat so much.
> 
> I could really really scream right now


What has happened to the gorgeous man  ,you really sound so stressed .


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> What has happened to the gorgeous man  ,you really sound so stressed .


Sorry I am a bit stressed..I've had to clean him every day now, despite the whole trying to time the poo so he goes indoors, he then goes outside and then has a bad poo.. I tried keeping him in but that was stressing him out and he cried and cried then cried some more.

Before I've managed the symptoms by keeping him in now that seems in vain as it's like he holds a bit in then goes out and he has a bad time..

Maybe it's because he is not on the antibiotics and the bacteria is taking over, maybe it's his slight prolapse making him still feel like he has not "been" maybe it's the food, maybe I just don't know what the hell is going on inside his tummy and all my second guesses are just making it worse 

..and breathe..

And to top it off I bought some slippers.first pair I've owned since a child and he attacks them like they are evil 

I will talk to the vet, I just wish beyond all wishes I could make this better for him


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## buffie

Don't know what to suggest,it does sound as though you and Riley are going through a horrible time just now.
What a bu**er as things were looking so positive , maybe it is time to have another chat with your vet to see if there is anything else you can try that will help.
I'm always around if you want to chat,just let me know.


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Don't know what to suggest,it does sound as though you and Riley are going through a horrible time just now.
> What a bu**er as things were looking so positive , maybe it is time to have another chat with your vet to see if there is anything else you can try that will help.
> I'm always around if you want to chat,just let me know.


It is annoying as things were going so well with him. I'm going to try and get an appointment on Monday if my vet is in as he is not right. I came home and poo over the carpet, what was in the tray tho was fine, not soft or anything, but his bum was covered my carpet was covered the door frame was covered 

I'm worried now it's the food, which means I'm stuck as there is just no alternative he can have, what does he do then..starve?

Another thing what if the chlorambucil is now not working?

These are all questions I will ask the vet, but it's just not looking hopeful right now


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## Jaye

Hi nicolaa123, 
I was going to leave a post on your other query [behavioural problem / scooting through his poop] about *expressing anal glands*. "...he has had them expressed many times, they were never blocked tho...'' Just to say, that it's not a good idea to express them unless they need doing. Video by Dr. Karen Becker DVM http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/23/*your-pets-anal-glands*.aspx [Below each video is a transcript that you can cut and paste / print off].

Also, a couple of suggestions re: his behavioural problem / *scooting through his poop*.

He does seem to be doing well on his diet [just Kangaroo and pumpkin [?] and no other medication / antibiotics [?] eating well [?] putting on / not losing weight [?] and *firm stools */ or soft but well formed [?]; no runny / watery diarrhoea [?]

But every so often, he scoots through his poop. But is this poop diarrhoea? Or is he just trying to relieve and itchy bum? "...he has half and half poo, first bit hard then on the end it's soft." http://www.dogster.com/forums/Dog_Health/thread/751171

Perhaps he is scooting through his poop because [as someone else suggested] he is not fully evacuating his bowel / difficulty with the ½ soft bit, or he just feels like he hasnt.
Scooting his bum also suggests he is trying to relieve an itchy bum.
When he strains to evacuate the soft bit or a soft stool this causes his rectum to prolapse while he's trying to poop it out. The prolapse would feel very itchy / uncomfortable so he would immediately scoot to relieve it.

Also...
When he strains he might also push out a little bit of the moist inner membrane of his bottom, which can dry out, but gets wet again [when he strains] to evacuate a soft stool. He may also have some tiny fissures there, straining and acidic poop would him feel sore there. Ordinary water [rather than saline] would also be more of an astringent to the inner membrane. 
Some *antibiotic cream *on his bottom [especially after youve washed him] would help. You could ring your vet / vet nurse to recommend one [then order it cheaper online]. In the meantime, a thin smear of Vaseline would be a safe barrier cream / relieve any itchiness. Unless you're using one already.

Also...
Poop is sticky. A healthy gut is coated with a protective slippery, mucous membrane which also enables sticky poop to travel through it. 
Have you tried him on *Slippery Elm*? Its a mucilage and also a fibre, and soothing for the gut lining. It may help stop his straining and help with his evacuation and his prolapse

Some info on Slippery Elm - Dr. Karen Becker again on video ~ http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/28/pet-diarrhea-symptoms-and-causes.aspx transcript below the video [and usually some comments which may be helpful].
Your Pets Good Health Begins in Their Gut http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/05/11/your-pet-s-good-health-begins-in-their-gut.aspx ; and IBD etc
Jean Hofve DVM http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

Is he on a *probiotic*?

The thing is, you say that he does have good days [weeks?]. He hasn't done too badly on just Kangaroo and pumpkin. 
I would try and be hopeful that he can make further improvements...you just have to work out what else his body needs in order to support his recovery. 
It would be good if it was something simple like one of the above rather than having to put him back on medication / antibiotics etc.

j


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## nicolaa123

Jaye said:


> Hi nicolaa123,
> I was going to leave a post on your other query [behavioural problem / scooting through his poop] about *expressing anal glands*. "...he has had them expressed many times, they were never blocked tho...'' Just to say, that it's not a good idea to express them unless they need doing. Video by Dr. Karen Becker DVM http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/23/*your-pets-anal-glands*.aspx [Below each video is a transcript that you can cut and paste / print off].
> 
> Also, a couple of suggestions re: his behavioural problem / *scooting through his poop*.
> 
> He does seem to be doing well on his diet [just Kangaroo and pumpkin [?] and no other medication / antibiotics [?] eating well [?] putting on / not losing weight [?] and *firm stools */ or soft but well formed [?]; no runny / watery diarrhoea [?]
> 
> But every so often, he scoots through his poop. But is this poop diarrhoea? Or is he just trying to relieve and itchy bum? "...he has half and half poo, first bit hard then on the end it's soft." http://www.dogster.com/forums/Dog_Health/thread/751171
> 
> Perhaps he is scooting through his poop because [as someone else suggested] he is not fully evacuating his bowel / difficulty with the ½ soft bit, or he just feels like he hasnt.
> Scooting his bum also suggests he is trying to relieve an itchy bum.
> When he strains to evacuate the soft bit or a soft stool this causes his rectum to prolapse while he's trying to poop it out. The prolapse would feel very itchy / uncomfortable so he would immediately scoot to relieve it.
> 
> Also...
> When he strains he might also push out a little bit of the moist inner membrane of his bottom, which can dry out, but gets wet again [when he strains] to evacuate a soft stool. He may also have some tiny fissures there, straining and acidic poop would him feel sore there. Ordinary water [rather than saline] would also be more of an astringent to the inner membrane.
> Some *antibiotic cream *on his bottom [especially after youve washed him] would help. You could ring your vet / vet nurse to recommend one [then order it cheaper online]. In the meantime, a thin smear of Vaseline would be a safe barrier cream / relieve any itchiness. Unless you're using one already.
> 
> Also...
> Poop is sticky. A healthy gut is coated with a protective slippery, mucous membrane which also enables sticky poop to travel through it.
> Have you tried him on *Slippery Elm*? Its a mucilage and also a fibre, and soothing for the gut lining. It may help stop his straining and help with his evacuation and his prolapse
> 
> Some info on Slippery Elm - Dr. Karen Becker again on video ~ http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/28/pet-diarrhea-symptoms-and-causes.aspx transcript below the video [and usually some comments which may be helpful].
> Your Pets Good Health Begins in Their Gut http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/05/11/your-pet-s-good-health-begins-in-their-gut.aspx ; and IBD etc
> Jean Hofve DVM http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/
> 
> Is he on a *probiotic*?
> 
> The thing is, you say that he does have good days [weeks?]. He hasn't done too badly on just Kangaroo and pumpkin.
> I would try and be hopeful that he can make further improvements...you just have to work out what else his body needs in order to support his recovery.
> It would be good if it was something simple like one of the above rather than having to put him back on medication / antibiotics etc.
> 
> j


Thank you for your thoughts. Riley will be on medication for life, it's the chlorambucil that really has helped him regain his condition and weight. He may have to have another course of ab's as could be a high number of bacteria causing the problem. Probiotic made him sick. I did not really want to try anything else in the diet until his liver levels are back normal.

I will see what the vet suggests as there is another drug we can try, even tho it's not been used for ibd before.

Unfortunately ibd has a habit of stripping away hope


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## Cazzer

Oh Nicola sorry I issued this! So sorry to hear about Riley not being too good again. Really don't know what to suggest I'm afraid. Feel so bad for you both x


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## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh Nicola sorry I issued this! So sorry to hear about Riley not being too good again. Really don't know what to suggest I'm afraid. Feel so bad for you both x


Thank you x

He seems ok in himself which is good..had a small runny bum this morning, but since then he has been fine and he has had three good sized meals and no runs..

Maybe it was the mention of the v-e-t word..still we will see tomorrow..I need to get some more chlorambucil, if I can avoid taking him to the vets it would be good..we are due back in about 3 weeks anyway..


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## nicolaa123

Well typically and thankfully all seems ok so far today..I let him out this morning..he has had a poo and no dramas..

Got me thinking what if last week he spat out his pill after I gave it to him? Maybe it is something as simple as that. 

I will keep an eye on him today..if it returns we shall goto the vets. I will mention it when I ring for more pills anyway..but hopefully I can spare him a vet trip..fingers crossed..


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## nicolaa123

Still all good..very puzzling, I think he must have spat out the chlorambucil with out me knowing last week as that's all it could be as nothing else has changed 

Or am I clutching at hopeful straws that this could be the only reason?


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## nicolaa123

Another day and all is good! If it is the chlorambucil just shows how poorly he would be with out it..

As I have to use gloves to pill him, he could have spat it out as you can't really feel the tablet. He did spurt one out once but I saw him do it so got him another one..

I will be mindful of this now..

..what an amazing thing modern medicine is :thumbup1:


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Another day and all is good! If it is the chlorambucil just shows how poorly he would be with out it..
> 
> As I have to use gloves to pill him, he could have spat it out as you can't really feel the tablet. He did spurt one out once but I saw him do it so got him another one..
> 
> I will be mindful of this now..
> 
> ..what an amazing thing modern medicine is :thumbup1:


Oops not been looking on here so missed your posts.......again.. 
Hopefully a missing pill is to blame for Rileys little set back. It is so easy for the little sods to spit them out if you take your eye of the ball for a split second.
I swear Meeko has pockets in his cheeks just like a hamster where he hides pills until he can spit them out un-noticed


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oops not been looking on here so missed your posts.......again..
> Hopefully a missing pill is to blame for Rileys little set back. It is so easy for the little sods to spit them out if you take your eye of the ball for a split second.
> I swear Meeko has pockets in his cheeks just like a hamster where he hides pills until he can spit them out un-noticed


It's the only thing that makes sense as he is more than fine..which as nothing else has changed..must be the answer!

My neighbour said yesterday (she is moving out and was packing as Riley came out) that Riley is looking chunky :thumbup1:


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It's the only thing that makes sense as he is more than fine..which as nothing else has changed..must be the answer!
> 
> My neighbour said yesterday (she is moving out and was packing as Riley came out) *that Riley is looking chunky *:thumbup1:


Now that is encouraging :thumbsup: 
I'm a bit concerned that Meeko is dropping weight but apart from a very small amount of vomit he seems well.
The only thing I can think may be causing it is the cold,he wants to be out all day but isn't eating any more to compensate.


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Now that is encouraging :thumbsup:
> I'm a bit concerned that Meeko is dropping weight but apart from a very small amount of vomit he seems well.
> The only thing I can think may be causing it is the cold,he wants to be out all day but isn't eating any more to compensate.


Good mr m seems well..it's hard to judge on the weight front..Riley will have a weigh check in about 3 weeks and his blood test for his liver..

I would have thought with Meeko being out he would eat more  but then as we both know there is no logic with ibd


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good mr m seems well..it's hard to judge on the weight front..Riley will have a weigh check in about 3 weeks and his blood test for his liver..
> 
> I would have thought with Meeko being out he would eat more  but then as we both know* there is no logic with ibd*


Nor is there any logic with Mr M  He doesn't fit into any boxes nor does he read any rules  but until I see something to worry about I will leave well alone 
Paws crossed for a good result for Riley in 3 weeks.


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## manyKitties

Hey guys..


Well I've gone through most of this thread. Many of the cases sound just like mine. 

When we got Light as a kitty, she randomly had a tiny bit of blood in her poo, and it was smelly, but it was rare and went away so we wrote it off as no concern.

Last December 2012, at the age of 3, my poor kitty Light started meowing randomly. Just meowing all day and all night. Eventually a few days later some stinky poo with a good bit of bright blood and mucus in it. Also the cat started scooting and licking excessively because of itchy skin. 

A trip the the vet, and my vet says he's pretty positive my cats allergic to most foods and has IBD, which also is causing "allergies". 

He prescribed my cat Hills D/D Venison food, metronidazole (which gives my cat TERRIBLE diarrea), proviable (probiotic), and antihistamines. 

The anithistimine seemed to help my cat for an entire year - stopped the scooting, stopped the meowing - light was back to normal, but a year later, it seems to have stopped working. Poor lightning is meowing more and more and scooting now the past month. Now my vet says the cat may need steroids but I'm really trying to avoid that.

The blood in the stool never truly went away but is pretty rare now, a couple times a week, while 80% of the time it is blood free. My vet said blood may be present intermittently throughout her entire life and it isn't too big of a worry. That concerns me still though.

I'm afraid this will turn into cancer. My vet said we can do a colonoscopy but he's 99% sure it's IBD and not to risk putting the cat to sleep for invasive surgoery.

I just want to get my poor kitty to stop meowing. I don't know if it's because her stomach hurts, her bum itches, her skin itches. I don't know if I should try a new antihistimine like benedryl - I asked my vet if my cat could grow a tolerance to the one that helped her for the first year and he said no .. but thrn why has it stopped working?

So many questions...I guess I just wanted to join the thread and try to help with the brain storming.

Can IBD alone be the cause of Lights skin irritation? My vet said the scooting means IDB/food allergy, and that if it was something like "pollen", the cat wouldnt be scooting. Not sure how true this is.

Sigh =[


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## manyKitties

I also wanted to mention anyone having trouble pilling their cat, if you havn't yet, try a cat pill dispenser tool, it looks like a syringe with no needle and you just shoot the down the throat. My kitty Light was impossible for me to pill until I got this. Note that I filed down the edges where it goes in the mouth with a nail filer to make it super smooth so it doesnt have any chance of scratching the throat.

Four Paws Quick & Easy Pill Dispenser at PETCO


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## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> Hey guys..
> 
> Well I've gone through most of this thread. Many of the cases sound just like mine.
> 
> When we got Light as a kitty, she randomly had a tiny bit of blood in her poo, and it was smelly, but it was rare and went away so we wrote it off as no concern.
> 
> Last December 2012, at the age of 3, my poor kitty Light started meowing randomly. Just meowing all day and all night. Eventually a few days later some stinky poo with a good bit of bright blood and mucus in it. Also the cat started scooting and licking excessively because of itchy skin.
> 
> A trip the the vet, and my vet says he's pretty positive my cats allergic to most foods and has IBD, which also is causing "allergies".
> 
> He prescribed my cat Hills D/D Venison food, metronidazole (which gives my cat TERRIBLE diarrea), proviable (probiotic), and antihistamines.
> 
> The anithistimine seemed to help my cat for an entire year - stopped the scooting, stopped the meowing - light was back to normal, but a year later, it seems to have stopped working. Poor lightning is meowing more and more and scooting now the past month. Now my vet says the cat may need steroids but I'm really trying to avoid that.
> 
> The blood in the stool never truly went away but is pretty rare now, a couple times a week, while 80% of the time it is blood free. My vet said blood may be present intermittently throughout her entire life and it isn't too big of a worry. That concerns me still though.
> 
> I'm afraid this will turn into cancer. My vet said we can do a colonoscopy but he's 99% sure it's IBD and not to risk putting the cat to sleep for invasive surgoery.
> 
> I just want to get my poor kitty to stop meowing. I don't know if it's because her stomach hurts, her bum itches, her skin itches. I don't know if I should try a new antihistimine like benedryl - I asked my vet if my cat could grow a tolerance to the one that helped her for the first year and he said no .. but thrn why has it stopped working?
> 
> So many questions...I guess I just wanted to join the thread and try to help with the brain storming.
> 
> Can IBD alone be the cause of Lights skin irritation? My vet said the scooting means IDB/food allergy, and that if it was something like "pollen", the cat wouldnt be scooting. Not sure how true this is.
> 
> Sigh =[


Firstly..welcome..bare with me I have had a migraine today and head is a bit fuzzy..

Has the cats poo been fully sampled for parasitic or bacterial nasties?

Ibd can only be diagnosed with endeoscopy and /or full biopsy. The endeoscopy is not such a high risk your vet is implying, it's not really all that invasive..just a camera put up the bum and samples can be taken. Has he checked her anal glands to see if they are compacted or infected? Has he suggested an ultra scan to have a look inside her tummy? Has bloods been taken to check for general health or epi. How is her weight? Any loss?

If he feels it's related to food then he should have recommended an elimination diet, where cat eats a novel protein for a period of time, then slowly other food is introduced, ingredients noted and reactions noted. Have you tried a raw diet? Is she just on the d/d as of present? With no treats?

Steroids can be useful but I would only use them short term to get her "back on track" tho to note they did not really have much of an affect on my cat.

As for the antihistamine, sorry don't know about that and the effect it could have. A food intolerance can cause itchy skin tho.

I would go back to your vets and ask for more tests, also it would try an elimination diet to see what food is being reacted too.

On my front..Riley has been doing fine until past couple of days :mad2: I'm going to make an app with my vet to discuss it..he also needs his bloods doing and his boosters (poor boy)


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## buffie

Nothing much to add to Nicola's post,she sadly,has become a bit of an expert on IBD which affects the lower digestive tract.
My Raggie Meeko has a problem with the opposite end,in that he vomits every few days,still IBD but affecting the upper digestive tract .
He also has had all the tests,endoscopy/biopsy,xrays, blood and poo tests ,He was given a hydrolyzed protein diet .......... Hills Prescription Diet Feline Z/D - Hills | Petmeds.co.uk
Being a fussy sod he refused to eat it.The wet is disgusting, the dry a bit better .
I think as Nicola has said your vet really does need to do some tests to try to eliminate other problems before saying it is IBD.


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> On my front..Riley has been doing fine until past couple of days :mad2: I'm going to make an app with my vet to discuss it..he also needs his bloods doing and his boosters (poor boy)


Sorry to read that Riley is still having probs , (and you have a migraine)so much for avoiding the vet this side of Chrimbo


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## manyKitties

nicolaa123 said:


> Firstly..welcome..bare with me I have had a migraine today and head is a bit fuzzy..
> 
> Has the cats poo been fully sampled for parasitic or bacterial nasties?
> 
> Ibd can only be diagnosed with endeoscopy and /or full biopsy. The endeoscopy is not such a high risk your vet is implying, it's not really all that invasive..just a camera put up the bum and samples can be taken. Has he checked her anal glands to see if they are compacted or infected? Has he suggested an ultra scan to have a look inside her tummy? Has bloods been taken to check for general health or epi. How is her weight? Any loss?
> 
> If he feels it's related to food then he should have recommended an elimination diet, where cat eats a novel protein for a period of time, then slowly other food is introduced, ingredients noted and reactions noted. Have you tried a raw diet? Is she just on the d/d as of present? With no treats?
> 
> Steroids can be useful but I would only use them short term to get her "back on track" tho to note they did not really have much of an affect on my cat.
> 
> As for the antihistamine, sorry don't know about that and the effect it could have. A food intolerance can cause itchy skin tho.
> 
> I would go back to your vets and ask for more tests, also it would try an elimination diet to see what food is being reacted too.
> 
> On my front..Riley has been doing fine until past couple of days :mad2: I'm going to make an app with my vet to discuss it..he also needs his bloods doing and his boosters (poor boy)


Hey Nicolaa, glad to hear Rileys doing okay.

So we've done blood tests and fecal tests, did a bunch of dewormers, did some gardia killer called albon, did a couple months of revolution dewormer, so were pretty much 100% positive its not parasites at this point, nor was it ever parasites, I probably should of mentioned that.

We've done xrays, the cats weight is good, she eats plenty.

At any rate, were saving our money for the full biopsy, (my vet recommended skipping the endoscopy) but on another note the cat has been really responsive (except as of late) to the diet change / and medicines. I'm thinking this may be a "flair up"?

My vet said basically at this point he's 99% positive its IBD or cancer which is why he's not recommending the full biopsy at all.

I'm also living paycheck to paycheck, and the meds (antihistimine, proviable, and metrinitizole once every few months) there's not infinite money for diagnostics

He told me the d/d venison was an elimination diet and if my cat didn't respond to it that it wasn't food allergies, but general IBD. We also tried the duck for 3 months. The cat responded WELL to both, but since it did not go away 100%, that it points to IBD that relies on healthier food to avoid irritation or bleeding/flair ups

My problem today is the antihistmine stopped working and the cat has itchy skin and is meowing and scooting. I've read you're doing the steroids yourself. I've been able to successfully avoid them using over the counter stuff (chloratimatron) but for some reason it has stopped working a year later.

Thanks for reading, praying you and yours see progress

PS. I wanted to mention I did goto a second opinion and the guy was freaking clueless.


----------



## nicolaa123

What blood tests were done and what was the poo tested for? 

I'm confused why your vet says the endeoscopy is invasive yet recommends the full biopsy where they will cut her open and is much more high risk operation.

I don't get how he thinks it's one or the other. Even before my cat when to a referral vet it was still a potential diagnosis but nothing as concrete as your vet seems to make out.

Are you in the uk?

I've never been confident enough to buy over counter meds with out my vets approval.

If you are going down the full biopsy then I would urge you to goto a vet referral clinic as they will be more equipped to do the operation and the aftercare. This will cost a lot of money tho but I would not have it done at my regular vets as they are not geared up to that kind of operation.

I still think more can be done with regards to the food issue and urge you to look at starting an elimination diet as d/d is not an elimination diet as it contains to many ingredients for a start!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Riley is still having probs , (and you have a migraine)so much for avoiding the vet this side of Chrimbo


I know it big time sucks! But we can have a chat about the other med that we can try..thing is apart from the runny mucky bum he is doing so well! He looks a lot bigger dare I say a bit of a fatty!

Hope mr m is doing better on the vomit front..


----------



## manyKitties

nicolaa123 said:


> What blood tests were done and what was the poo tested for?
> 
> I'm confused why your vet says the endoscopy is invasive yet recommends the full biopsy where they will cut her open and is much more high risk operation.
> 
> I don't get how he thinks it's one or the other. Even before my cat when to a referral vet it was still a potential diagnosis but nothing as concrete as your vet seems to make out.
> 
> Are you in the uk?
> 
> I've never been confident enough to buy over counter meds with out my vets approval.
> 
> If you are going down the full biopsy then I would urge you to goto a vet referral clinic as they will be more equipped to do the operation and the aftercare. This will cost a lot of money tho but I would not have it done at my regular vets as they are not geared up to that kind of operation.
> 
> I still think more can be done with regards to the food issue and urge you to look at starting an elimination diet as d/d is not an elimination diet as it contains to many ingredients for a start!


It was a "full blood panel" and the poo was tested for parasites only. "Everything looked normal" and "all blood levels were good"

My vet said the order if I had infinite money would be ultrasound -> endoscopy -> full biopsy

Since he knows money is tight, he said a one time full biopsy will make sure it's not only lower IBD but not upper intestinal as well, and also will look for deep polyps which may also be the cause of all this that an endoscopy may not find. He also said he wanted to make sure it wasn't ulcers in the lower/upper tract even though the blood was bright red.

That's his train of thought. He prefers me to do all 3 diagnostics, like you, but it's just not feasible for me. He wouldn't be doing the full biopsy himself either, there's a huge animal hospital I would be going to, so he's not just trying to make a buck.

I guess there is a disagreement on diet - he said the d/d venison was really the last food to try, perhaps I should try something else since you seem to think otherwise? I asked about raw diet and he said "it's too hard and risky for the cat" and "because we saw great progress with d/d we should stick with it" (the amount and frequency of blood became greatly reduced, although never eliminated, poop stopped smelling foul)

Every medicine given to Light was prescribed by my vet or recommended, including the chloratimatron (antihistamine) which worked for a year and got rid of the scooting until recently. My vet is now recommending steroids to get rid of the allergies/scooting ("caused by the IDB")

Maybe I should jump for an endoscopy instead of the full biopsy like you recommend. It's something I could afford pretty soon.


----------



## Cazzer

Welcome to the IBD club manykitties! There are lots of us here!

Nicola Mr R looking fat  good news! Hope you feel better soon and that Mr R continues to er look a bit porky! 

Hope Mr M is behaving himself and not vomiting :thumbup1:

Karlo meanwhile is still going on ok. However he is at times being reluctant to eat his RC sachets. I'm having to put fortiflora on it sometimes to persuade him to eat. He's still having raw chicken and a bit of Grau with rice chicken and turkey and has been ok at the rear end!

Now manykitties we have tracked down lots of alternatives to the hills but they may not be an option for you depending on where you live? Have you tried puss on raw at all as lots of IBD cats seem to do well on it if they will eat it! It's not really hard or risky many vets like to scare people though and persuade them to buy their expensive diets instead. Lots of us feed raw here with some success


----------



## nicolaa123

I understand what he is saying about the order of things and money. I personally would not have Riley have full biopsy as it would be too much stress on him. The endescopy he had was enough to determine ibd. I am pleased to hear it would be done at a referral clinic. It is a big operation tho..but you have to do what you feel is best and if money is tight..

As for food. I am surprised he has not mentioned z/d as that is a hydrolised food there fore a cat should not have a reaction to it. Elimination diets are normally horse, reindeer, kanagroo and the like. As for raw most cats do very well and symptoms pass very quickly by having a raw diet, mine won't eat raw otherwise he would be on it..most vets do not get taught about cat diets! There is a lot of info on the forum about raw diets if you want to try that.

With the tests was TF tested for? Could be a reason for the blood in the poo.

I'm not sure about general ibd but cats who can eat something that they have no reaction to can then become intolerant too over time whether that be quickly or longer. So as he could eat the d/d as mine could he still had reactions to it which is why I put him on kanagroo..tho sadly it seems that now he could be reacting to that as well. With Riley it's like his body just rejects food. With out the weekly chlorambucil I am sure he would now be dead as it's the one thing that turned it around for him  there is another drug we will look at to try, but in all fairness I accept that he will always have problems in the back end dept. ibd can not be cured but hopefully managed.

I'm not recommended what course of action you take as you know your cat and your vet..what I would say is read up on ibd and diet and then make a decision..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Welcome to the IBD club manykitties! There are lots of us here!
> 
> Nicola Mr R looking fat  good news! Hope you feel better soon and that Mr R continues to er look a bit porky!
> 
> Hope Mr M is behaving himself and not vomiting :thumbup1:
> 
> Karlo meanwhile is still going on ok. However he is at times being reluctant to eat his RC sachets. I'm having to put fortiflora on it sometimes to persuade him to eat. He's still having raw chicken and a bit of Grau with rice chicken and turkey and has been ok at the rear end!
> 
> Now manykitties we have tracked down lots of alternatives to the hills but they may not be an option for you depending on where you live? Have you tried puss on raw at all as lots of IBD cats seem to do well on it if they will eat it! It's not really hard or risky many vets like to scare people though and persuade them to buy their expensive diets instead. Lots of us feed raw here with some success


Looking fat..but runny bum is back :mad2:

Pleased to hear Karlo is still doing well :thumbup1: I dream of ok rear ends


----------



## manyKitties

For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.

Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.

The fact my vet steers me towards D/D and away from a raw diet makes me think maybe hes just out to make a buck since hes the one selling me the D/D, but perhaps im being cynicle.

BTW, I'm in the eastern USA.


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.
> 
> Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.


No one can make the decision as we are not in a position to say, but what I would say is read up on ibd, read up on cat allergies so when you make the decision it's an informed one.

However what I would do if I was in your shoes is defiantly look at the diet


----------



## nicolaa123

If he was out to make money you would have tried I/d, z/d plus other hills or rc diets..just most vets do not get taught about diet..

Google cats with ibd and food..it will give you lots of sites saying single no grain food is a way to start if you are not fully sure on raw..

Oh and edit..did the poo test cover TF?


----------



## manyKitties

nicolaa123 said:


> No one can make the decision as we are not in a position to say, but what I would say is read up on ibd, read up on cat allergies so when you make the decision it's an informed one.
> 
> However what I would do if I was in your shoes is defiantly look at the diet


So you think I should try Z/D or a raw diet? I can order Z/D right now. I bet Light will eat it no problem, that one shoulda been a wolf.

I don't know about the TF test, I will have to ask. When he gave Light the dose of Albon, metronidazole, and Revolution, he said "no parasite will survive"


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.
> 
> Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.
> 
> The fact my vet steers me towards D/D and away from a raw diet makes me think maybe hes just out to make a buck since hes the one selling me the D/D, but perhaps im being cynicle.
> 
> BTW, I'm in the eastern USA.


You edit your posts so I miss things with my frazzled brain 

If you are in the USA you have so much more foods to try that are novel protein! You have aligator, buffalo to mention a few..there was a company that I was hoping would ship to the uk..can't remember now but the food looked good and was single protein with limited extras!


----------



## Cazzer

Yes I can remember looking at some as well and I can't remember what it was apart from blue buffalo?


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## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> So you think I should try Z/D or a raw diet? I can order Z/D right now. I bet Light will eat it no problem, that one shoulda been a wolf.
> 
> I don't know about the TF test, I will have to ask. When he gave Light the dose of Albon, metronidazole, and Revolution, he said "no parasite will survive"


TF is another thing to rule out as can cause blood and stinky poo..

By all means try the z/d but I can't stress enough do some research on ibd and food..it won't hurt to just leap in but a little knowledge is better than none..as for the z/d the wet is yuck and Riley would not really eat it and I prefer him to be on wet with him having diarrhoea due to dehydration.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Yes I can remember looking at some as well and I can't remember what it was apart from blue buffalo?


From memory it was natural something..


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> TF is another thing to rule out as can cause blood and stinky poo..
> 
> By all means try the z/d but I can't stress enough do some research on ibd and food..it won't hurt to just leap in but a little knowledge is better than none..as for the z/d the wet is yuck and Riley would not really eat it and I prefer him to be on wet with him having diarrhoea due to dehydration.


My late Oska originally had I/d when he developed triaditis. When he was later put on z/d he refused to eat the dry never mind the wet!


----------



## manyKitties

Hey guys, got some Z/D Ordered today. Were going to try to switch her from D/D to Z/D. Hopefully lights "allergies" response to the food soothes her IBD and itchy skin a bit.

I wanted to correct myself about one thing I mentioned earlier, my vet first tried I/D for six months (hypoallergenic), then we moved on to D/D (to try venison protein)

Were going to give the Hydrolyzed Protein a try as suggested by Nicolaa, I've got my fingers crossed it relieves the skin irritation.

Her poop has been in good condition recently. only blood 10%-20% of the time if that, and just a tiny amount with some mucus. It almost always comes out after the poop.

If the Z/D doesn't show a dramatic help, were going to get the endoscopy next week, but I'm confused what would really change if we confirm it's IBD and what would be the next step..steroids most likely

perhaps gator ? lol. :thumbup1:


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> Hey guys, got some Z/D Ordered today. Were going to try to switch her from D/D to Z/D. Hopefully lights "allergies" response to the food soothes her IBD and itchy skin a bit.
> 
> I wanted to correct myself about one thing I mentioned earlier, my vet first tried I/D for six months (hypoallergenic), then we moved on to D/D (to try venison protein)
> 
> Were going to give the Hydrolyzed Protein a try as suggested by Nicolaa, I've got my fingers crossed it relieves the skin irritation.
> 
> Her poop has been in good condition recently. only blood 10%-20% of the time if that, and just a tiny amount with some mucus. It almost always comes out after the poop.
> 
> If the Z/D doesn't show a dramatic help, were going to get the endoscopy next week, but I'm confused what would really change if we confirm it's IBD and what would be the next step..steroids most likely
> 
> perhaps gator ? lol. :thumbup1:


Just a point I/d is not hypoallergenic in the slightest!! Your vet seriously lacks food knowledge..:mad2:

Nothing will change if it's confirmed ibd..but you will have to look at food triggers, which is why an elimination diet is so key for cats with ibd. If you know the triggers you can avoid them. I would try the alligator as long as the other ingredients are limited. You never know the z/d may work and you can avoid steroids and the like. The steroids or ab's only really mask the problem and whilst ibd will never be cured food can play a big part.

Or you may be in the same position as my cat is in and will be on meds for the rest of his life with me pulling my hair out!


----------



## manyKitties

nicolaa123 said:


> Or you may be in the same position as my cat is in and will be on meds for the rest of his life with me pulling my hair out!


I just wanted to let you know without a patient and caring parent like yourself your kitty wouldn't be any where near as happy as he is today

I'll let you know how to Z/d works. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Also, I think the I/D Was for "gastritis", certainly was worth a shot although yes, the Z/D should of obviously been tried a long time ago. I think my vet is geniunly trying although like you said they probably don't know much about nutrition.


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> I just wanted to let you know without a patient and caring parent like yourself your kitty wouldn't be any where near as happy as he is today
> 
> I'll let you know how to Z/d works. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> Also, I think the I/D Was for "gastritis", certainly was worth a shot although yes, the Z/D should of obviously been tried a long time ago. I think my vet is geniunly trying although like you said they probably don't know much about nutrition.


Well today was a good day :thumbup1: no bum wiping needed :thumbup1:

Yes I/d is meant to be easy on the tummy, but if you google the ingredients you will see so many of them  that really should not be in cat food. However it is always worth a try and worked with my cat until his body rejected it!

Z/d may well work..fingers crossed it does..


----------



## nicolaa123

Blinking typical another (for want of a better word) lovely poo! Still we are booked to go Wednesday and go we will!

I just don't get my little boy I really don't!


----------



## Matti

So.... some of you may well remember me (and some of you may even know a little of why I've been gone such a long time....) to cut a long story short, I have had a horrendous time including being homeless and jobless!

But, I'm back, and more importantly, I still have my little boy (although he's not so little now) Tom... and he still has IBD and EPI (endocrine pancreatic insufficiency).

A brief background- he was fine eating the z/d wet (for those of you who don't know, Tom has to be on wet food as he has to take pancreatic enzymes since he doesn't produce them himself, and they have to be given alongside food). So, anyway Tom went from eating the wet fine, to me having to mix in dry, to me having to handfeed a mix of wet and dry (wet z/d and dry Purina HA), to, tonight, not even eating the dry food. He's scared of his food bowl, so he only eats off the floor, because he clearly associates the bowl with bad things- I've gone through a million different bowls and no help. He runs away from me if I bring food near him, and basically I'm at my wits end with him. He regularly has me in tears every night about this.

His recent refusal of food has coincided with a slight squidgyness returning to his toilet- he's on Lypex enzymes (half a capsule with each meal), an antacid (Zitac) 1/8 a tablet twice a day and 1.5mg of prednisolone 1 day in 3. I went to the vet on friday regarding his food refusal and they said not to change his food and to up his pred as that might be why his appetite is going, but I KNOW this isn't the reason- but try explaining this to the bloody vet. He's a great vet but Tom's refusal is because he hates the food not because he might be having a slight flair up and that's why he's losing his appetite.

I'm wondering what you guys are all feeding at the moment, and if any of you know if there is any other wet hydrolyzed protein foods for cats that are available in the UK? 

Any words of advice would be amazing, since I'm struggling so much that sometimes I wonder if it's even fair to keep him going when we both get so stressed about it all... the poor thing runs away from me half the time and I don't know what to do.... :'(


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So.... some of you may well remember me (and some of you may even know a little of why I've been gone such a long time....) to cut a long story short, I have had a horrendous time including being homeless and jobless!
> 
> But, I'm back, and more importantly, I still have my little boy (although he's not so little now) Tom... and he still has IBD and EPI (endocrine pancreatic insufficiency).
> 
> A brief background- he was fine eating the z/d wet (for those of you who don't know, Tom has to be on wet food as he has to take pancreatic enzymes since he doesn't produce them himself, and they have to be given alongside food). So, anyway Tom went from eating the wet fine, to me having to mix in dry, to me having to handfeed a mix of wet and dry (wet z/d and dry Purina HA), to, tonight, not even eating the dry food. He's scared of his food bowl, so he only eats off the floor, because he clearly associates the bowl with bad things- I've gone through a million different bowls and no help. He runs away from me if I bring food near him, and basically I'm at my wits end with him. He regularly has me in tears every night about this.
> 
> His recent refusal of food has coincided with a slight squidgyness returning to his toilet- he's on Lypex enzymes (half a capsule with each meal), an antacid (Zitac) 1/8 a tablet twice a day and 1.5mg of prednisolone 1 day in 3. I went to the vet on friday regarding his food refusal and they said not to change his food and to up his pred as that might be why his appetite is going, but I KNOW this isn't the reason- but try explaining this to the bloody vet. He's a great vet but Tom's refusal is because he hates the food not because he might be having a slight flair up and that's why he's losing his appetite.
> 
> I'm wondering what you guys are all feeding at the moment, and if any of you know if there is any other wet hydrolyzed protein foods for cats that are available in the UK?
> 
> Any words of advice would be amazing, since I'm struggling so much that sometimes I wonder if it's even fair to keep him going when we both get so stressed about it all... the poor thing runs away from me half the time and I don't know what to do.... :'(


Hi! I've often thought about you and Tom..sorry things have been so horrible for you both 

Only thing I can suggest is a novel protein that's not the horrible z/d, there are no other hydrolyzed foods in the uk that I know of..

Remind me did I send you some kangaroo and did Tom like it, was there any out put problems..have you tried raw with him?

Appetite is reduced here past couple of days..I use to worry and obsess over it, but now I just feed less until it's back..but I understand he needs to have hugs meds in his food. I think I would try another food.. The pred can cause a runny bum, I was very pleased when Riley was off the pred.

I can honestly say the chlorambucil has been a god send for him, I'm positive with out it he would gave wasted away to well nothing. Maybe that's something to consider.

It's only my personal opinion but to find something they are happy to eat and causes not too many issues would be my starting point..


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi! I've often thought about you and Tom..sorry things have been so horrible for you both
> 
> Only thing I can suggest is a novel protein that's not the horrible z/d, there are no other hydrolyzed foods in the uk that I know of..
> 
> Remind me did I send you some kangaroo and did Tom like it, was there any out put problems..have you tried raw with him?
> 
> Appetite is reduced here past couple of days..I use to worry and obsess over it, but now I just feed less until it's back..but I understand he needs to have hugs meds in his food. I think I would try another food.. The pred can cause a runny bum, I was very pleased when Riley was off the pred.
> 
> I can honestly say the chlorambucil has been a god send for him, I'm positive with out it he would gave wasted away to well nothing. Maybe that's something to consider.
> 
> It's only my personal opinion but to find something they are happy to eat and causes not too many issues would be my starting point..


That's my thinking too... we tried him on reindeer before if you remember Nicola? He ate it- sort of, but didn't love it. I was considering kangaroo, but no idea where to start sourcing it. I know the vet is really anti-me feeding him anything else, but if he doesnt pick up after a week of pred every day, then I'm going back and telling them the food has to change. They didn't want to know about novel protein before. Do you think kangaroo is a good idea? Does Riley like it? That's always a good indicator for me!

The only food I have ever seen him gobble is Nature's Menu, and he can't have that now.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> That's my thinking too... we tried him on reindeer before if you remember Nicola? He ate it- sort of, but didn't love it. I was considering kangaroo, but no idea where to start sourcing it. I know the vet is really anti-me feeding him anything else, but if he doesnt pick up after a week of pred every day, then I'm going back and telling them the food has to change. They didn't want to know about novel protein before. Do you think kangaroo is a good idea? Does Riley like it? That's always a good indicator for me!
> 
> The only food I have ever seen him gobble is Nature's Menu, and he can't have that now.


Riley loves the kangaroo..I get it from http://www.vet-concept.com/Katzenmenue-KAeNGURU.htm?websale8=vet-concept&pi=M210010&ci=001205&Ctx={ver/8/ver}{st/3eb/st}{cmd/0/cmd}{m/websale/m}{s/vet-concept/s}{l/01-AA/l}{mi/001205/mi}{pi/M210010/pi}{fc/x/fc}{p1/21154aae87ef0824eb5c1da852a84d97/p1}{md5/e6618d98bbda3f30be761a4e56573ead/md5}

That did not work try

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...dbox=0&usg=ALkJrhiFeFoC49zMqZMH3uv4DWqkj8oPsQ

I just send them an email with the order and they send it..they also take credit card and PayPal payment now 

Hopefully you will get the translated version 

I can send you a tin of kangaroo to try if you want??


----------



## manyKitties

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to give you an update:

We got the food in Sunday and Light (and my other cat) refused to eat it at first other than a couple bites.

We'll I'm no push over and stuck to my guns, even though they pouted all day sunday and monday morning refusing to eat.. and by Monday afternoon I assume they were both so hungry they now eat it. Two full bowls gone in 2 days!

I'll let you know how to ZD turns out. Sorry to hear about your kitty Matti.


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley loves the kangaroo..I get it from http://www.vet-concept.com/Katzenmenue-KAeNGURU.htm?websale8=vet-concept&pi=M210010&ci=001205&Ctx={ver/8/ver}{st/3eb/st}{cmd/0/cmd}{m/websale/m}{s/vet-concept/s}{l/01-AA/l}{mi/001205/mi}{pi/M210010/pi}{fc/x/fc}{p1/21154aae87ef0824eb5c1da852a84d97/p1}{md5/e6618d98bbda3f30be761a4e56573ead/md5}
> 
> That did not work try
> 
> Google Translate
> 
> I just send them an email with the order and they send it..they also take credit card and PayPal payment now
> 
> Hopefully you will get the translated version
> 
> I can send you a tin of kangaroo to try if you want??


Thanks Nicola, I'll try that if he keeps refusing. Would it be alright if I tried a can of kangaroo? Also, what's the delivery cost for orders?


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to give you an update:
> 
> We got the food in Sunday and Light (and my other cat) refused to eat it at first other than a couple bites.
> 
> We'll I'm no push over and stuck to my guns, even though they pouted all day sunday and monday morning refusing to eat.. and by Monday afternoon I assume they were both so hungry they now eat it. Two full bowls gone in 2 days!
> 
> I'll let you know how to ZD turns out. Sorry to hear about your kitty Matti.


Hopefully it will help..but do consider the elimination diet as well..

We are at the vets Wednesday..tho typical of him he has not had runny bum! Tho tonight bum was sore and was blood  I think it could be the prolapse causing the blood..his bum looks ok tho..I will never get my head round ibd :crazy:


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Thanks Nicola, I'll try that if he keeps refusing. Would it be alright if I tried a can of kangaroo? Also, what's the delivery cost for orders?


Delivery costs 5 euros! Nothing really! I buy the big tins does not work out that much really!

Pm me your address and will pop a tin Wednesday


----------



## Matti

manyKitties said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to give you an update:
> 
> We got the food in Sunday and Light (and my other cat) refused to eat it at first other than a couple bites.
> 
> We'll I'm no push over and stuck to my guns, even though they pouted all day sunday and monday morning refusing to eat.. and by Monday afternoon I assume they were both so hungry they now eat it. Two full bowls gone in 2 days!
> 
> I'll let you know how to ZD turns out. Sorry to hear about your kitty Matti.


Thanks dear. Glad to hear they've finally taken to Z/D and fingers crossed it sticks! I had luck with it for a while, but looks like it's finally run out!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Delivery costs 5 euros! Nothing really! I buy the big tins does not work out that much really!
> 
> Pm me your address and will pop a tin Wednesday


That's amazing!! How well do the big cans keep and how much do you normally feed Riley? If/when the prednisolone uppage doesnt work, i'm definitely going to the vet to tell him I'm trying novel protein diet. My only other question is, won't the food eventually not become a novel protein and therefore cause problems again?

Btw, Tom is on prednisolone permanently now, on a 1 day in 3 holding dose of 1.5mg as I mentioned before.

Just to note- luckily, Tom has finally put on weight, and is now a postively porky (for him) 2.8kg, and given he's the same size as a small female cat according to the vet, he's doing well.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> That's amazing!! How well do the big cans keep and how much do you normally feed Riley? If/when the prednisolone uppage doesnt work, i'm definitely going to the vet to tell him I'm trying novel protein diet. My only other question is, won't the food eventually not become a novel protein and therefore cause problems again?
> 
> Btw, Tom is on prednisolone permanently now, on a 1 day in 3 holding dose of 1.5mg as I mentioned before.
> 
> Just to note- luckily, Tom has finally put on weight, and is now a postively porky (for him) 2.8kg, and given he's the same size as a small female cat according to the vet, he's doing well.


Well my fatty (fingers crossed weigh day Wednesday) eats between half to a full tin per day..but I have let him eat more to try and fatten him up..ideally on the 400g tins he should have half to 3/4 per day..for Tom I would say half a tin..a tin will keep in the fridge two days just put in a plastic pot with lid. Riley also has a teaspoon of pumpkin mixed with every meal for extra fibre..

..yes there is the danger of the novel food being reacted too..but cross that bridge and all that


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Well my fatty (fingers crossed weigh day Wednesday) eats between half to a full tin per day..but I have let him eat more to try and fatten him up..ideally on the 400g tins he should have half to 3/4 per day..for Tom I would say half a tin..a tin will keep in the fridge two days just put in a plastic pot with lid. Riley also has a teaspoon of pumpkin mixed with every meal for extra fibre..
> 
> ..yes there is the danger of the novel food being reacted too..but cross that bridge and all that


So, Tom is still refusing food today- he ate about 3 pieces, not from the bowl, because he's scared of it. He's also drinking a lot today, but I do have the heating on and I have been making him run around playing since I'm off work with the flu, plus he's not eating his wet food so I'm not too worried- yet. His stools has firmed up again as well, so it's just getting him to eat something.

Nicola, what do you think to me mixing the kangaroo with the Z/D at first? I should be able to tell quite quickly if its giving him a bad gut again if I do that, surely, since he's fine on the z/d and Purina HA mix with all of his meds? And it should stop him being afraid of his food bowl too.... thoughts?


----------



## nicolaa123

I'm at work at the moment will reply when I am home..


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> So, Tom is still refusing food today- he ate about 3 pieces, not from the bowl, because he's scared of it. He's also drinking a lot today, but I do have the heating on and I have been making him run around playing since I'm off work with the flu, plus he's not eating his wet food so I'm not too worried- yet. His stools has firmed up again as well, so it's just getting him to eat something.
> 
> Nicola, what do you think to me mixing the kangaroo with the Z/D at first? I should be able to tell quite quickly if its giving him a bad gut again if I do that, surely, since he's fine on the z/d and Purina HA mix with all of his meds? And it should stop him being afraid of his food bowl too.... thoughts?


I would defiantly mix it in at first with the z/d to minimise risk,,but as a novely protein it really should not have an affect on his tummy..well that's the theory..but would always air on the side of caution 

As for not eating today it is a worry. Some times our stress can be picked up by them and if you are anxious for him to eat it can have the opposite effect..some times when Riley was on my bed if he had not eaten I would take a little to him where he was relaxed and he would eat there..does tom have a chilling place you can just put some food near and leave it there so he gets a different connection with the food?

Has he eaten now at all?


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> I would defiantly mix it in at first with the z/d to minimise risk,,but as a novely protein it really should not have an affect on his tummy..well that's the theory..but would always air on the side of caution
> 
> As for not eating today it is a worry. Some times our stress can be picked up by them and if you are anxious for him to eat it can have the opposite effect..some times when Riley was on my bed if he had not eaten I would take a little to him where he was relaxed and he would eat there..does tom have a chilling place you can just put some food near and leave it there so he gets a different connection with the food?
> 
> Has he eaten now at all?


Oops, ignore the bit in my PM about mixing the food!! Nope, still not eaten... I've been home with flu last few days, so I'm trying not to feed him until about 8pm, which is his usual dinner time, in the hope he will be hungry.

[EDIT] Don't suppose he's picking up on my being ill and that's making him funny with me?

Re, food at his chilling space, he now won't use his last chilling space because of it


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Oops, ignore the bit in my PM about mixing the food!! Nope, still not eaten... I've been home with flu last few days, so I'm trying not to feed him until about 8pm, which is his usual dinner time, in the hope he will be hungry.
> 
> [EDIT] Don't suppose he's picking up on my being ill and that's making him funny with me?
> 
> Re, food at his chilling space, he now won't use his last chilling space because of it


Ahhhh..you will be disturbing his routine being at home also  shame you can't leave him for a few hours..but you stay in the warm..flu is a nightmare!!

You said he will be on pred for life..pred had no positive effect with Riley in fact he was better off it than on it..could you talk to your vet about the possibility of weaning him off the pred..long term effects are not very good


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Ahhhh..you will be disturbing his routine being at home also  shame you can't leave him for a few hours..but you stay in the warm..flu is a nightmare!!
> 
> You said he will be on pred for life..pred had no positive effect with Riley in fact he was better off it than on it..could you talk to your vet about the possibility of weaning him off the pred..long term effects are not very good


I'd love to, but the pred really does make a massive difference to Tom, like HUGE. Every time we've taken him off, he's got much worse.  he's only on a tiny doseage so even though there are terrible side effects, its better than not having him on it at all. Maybe if I can get him eating etc and stable then I can try to wean him off again.


----------



## Matti

Bowl aversion resolved!!! Having to feed him Purina HA (hydrolyzed protein still unfortunately), but am mixing it with a little water to make them sticky then sprinkling the enzymes on top- he's not eating all the enzymes so I'm having to give him more than the proper dosage to make sure, but having too many doesn't have any ill-effects (whereas not having enough does!) but..... tonight was the first time I've seen him eat out of his bowl in almost 2 months!!! YEEAAAAAYYYYY!! 

Am still looking at swapping him to novel protein food once I know if he'll like it because I hate having him on dry, but for a short term resolution (especially getting close to christmas and delivery problem season) it's a good start.... no more hand feeding (fingers crossed!).


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Bowl aversion resolved!!! Having to feed him Purina HA (hydrolyzed protein still unfortunately), but am mixing it with a little water to make them sticky then sprinkling the enzymes on top- he's not eating all the enzymes so I'm having to give him more than the proper dosage to make sure, but having too many doesn't have any ill-effects (whereas not having enough does!) but..... tonight was the first time I've seen him eat out of his bowl in almost 2 months!!! YEEAAAAAYYYYY!!
> 
> Am still looking at swapping him to novel protein food once I know if he'll like it because I hate having him on dry, but for a short term resolution (especially getting close to christmas and delivery problem season) it's a good start.... no more hand feeding (fingers crossed!).


Good news!! I think for now as long as he eats and does not relate eating to a not nice experience and he is getting his enzymes all good!

If he likes the kangaroo then at least you know it's a possibility..


----------



## nicolaa123

To update on here..

Riley now 4.34 kg so a gain!

Waiting on liver results.

Thinking about food..vet said its not a bad idea to have another food..but have to do it very very slowly and monitor like a hawk!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news!! I think for now as long as he eats and does not relate eating to a not nice experience and he is getting his enzymes all good!
> 
> If he likes the kangaroo then at least you know it's a possibility..


Agreed! I hate him being on dry only, but for now, its perfect... and as soon as I can, I'm getting him on kangaroo (if the fussy bugger will eat it). He's only eating a tiny amount mind you, but the point is, after 2 days, he is now eating something.


----------



## Cazzer

Good to see you back Matti (and to hear how Tom is doing). I did think about him a lot!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Agreed! I hate him being on dry only, but for now, its perfect... and as soon as I can, I'm getting him on kangaroo (if the fussy bugger will eat it). He's only eating a tiny amount mind you, but the point is, after 2 days, he is now eating something.


And also that you are not force feeding him..

But I am upset at the lack of photos of Tom


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> And also that you are not force feeding him..
> 
> But I am upset at the lack of photos of Tom


Haha here you go! Look at what a big boy he is now!! (fingers crossed it works)


----------



## Cazzer

He's looking good. Love those big eyes!


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Haha here you go! Look at what a big boy he is now!! (fingers crossed it works)
> 
> View attachment 129135
> 
> 
> View attachment 129136
> 
> 
> View attachment 129137
> 
> 
> View attachment 129138


He is stunning!! What a big boy now!!


----------



## Matti

I know! He's still tiny size-wise mind you, I can still carry him around with one hand (hence him only being 2.8kg), and he's pretty much stuck at that size, but it's quite nice having a mini-cat. He's starting to look much healthier now too, fluffy and a good coat with a little bit of a belly.... I don't feel so awkward when people see him and tell me he's awfully skinny and am I sure I'm feeding him enough..... :S

Oh and if you're wondering what the black thing on his collar is, its a mini tracker.... paranoid mummy gets worried when he's outside playing at night so I press the handset and it beeps so he comes running back- I have a fully trained remote-control cat


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I know! He's still tiny size-wise mind you, I can still carry him around with one hand (hence him only being 2.8kg), and he's pretty much stuck at that size, but it's quite nice having a mini-cat. He's starting to look much healthier now too, fluffy and a good coat with a little bit of a belly.... I don't feel so awkward when people see him and tell me he's awfully skinny and am I sure I'm feeding him enough..... :S
> 
> Oh and if you're wondering what the black thing on his collar is, its a mini tracker.... paranoid mummy gets worried when he's outside playing at night so I press the handset and it beeps so he comes running back- I have a fully trained remote-control cat


Well with the help of the lovely ibd members Riley has put on weight..sometimes coming on this thread and just going arrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh really helps me stay strong and persist..so now you are back we can work on Tom becoming a porker like Riley


----------



## nicolaa123

Liver results..

Alt was 190 now 191
Ast was 57 now 68

Bile acid should be 10 but his was 15.7

Waiting for the referral vet to advise next steps..

My vet I should not worry as she is not worried..but well I am a bit concerned..


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Liver results..
> 
> Alt was 190 now 191
> Ast was 57 now 68
> 
> Bile acid should be 10 but his was 15.7
> 
> Waiting for the referral vet to advise next steps..
> 
> My vet I should not worry as she is not worried..but well I am a bit concerned..


 Not as positive as you were hoping, I know, but definitely a good thing that the vet isn't worried. Surely it's normal for there to be a bit of variation in the results? I saw in the other thread you said that his condition and weight is good so that's definitely a positive.

Cuddles and peaceful vibes being sent over!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Good news referral vet is happy to not put him back on ab's just the liver protector and he does not have to have a check up until April!

I have another theory on his poo :frown2: :shocked: if he goes to the toilet less than 24 hours from the last time he has had a poo, he tends to have more of an issue than when he goes 24 hours after the last time he went. Which is mainly outside. Bare with me..

..so if he say went Saturday and tray deposit all fine, Sunday morning we get up he goes out and comes back with poo all over his tail. Then today tray deposit all fine (tho I don't know what time he went  ) there must be some significance in this that I'm just not seeing :mad2: 

His poo is still squidgy and not as firm as it was last week..but that could be the stress of the vet visit..who knows!?!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news referral vet is happy to not put him back on ab's just the liver protector and he does not have to have a check up until April!
> 
> I have another theory on his poo :frown2: :shocked: if he goes to the toilet less than 24 hours from the last time he has had a poo, he tends to have more of an issue than when he goes 24 hours after the last time he went. Which is mainly outside. Bare with me..
> 
> ..so if he say went Saturday and tray deposit all fine, Sunday morning we get up he goes out and comes back with poo all over his tail. Then today tray deposit all fine (tho I don't know what time he went  ) there must be some significance in this that I'm just not seeing :mad2:
> 
> His poo is still squidgy and not as firm as it was last week..but that could be the stress of the vet visit..who knows!?!


YAY FOR THE REFERRAL VET'S DECISION!!  

RE the poo issue, I understand what you're getting at.... maybe its because it hasn't matured/solidified enough in the tummy? Also, Riley has had his pancreas checked to see its working properly right? Tom goes once a day only since he's had his enzymes, same time each day, and the enzymes help solidify as he can break down all the food and digest properly.... without them, the food would go in through his mouth and out without being digested very very quickly, and give him squidgy poo..... so maybe its a similar thing with Riley? Maybe not with the pancreas, but maybe he's low with something and it's having a similar reaction??


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> YAY FOR THE REFERRAL VET'S DECISION!!
> 
> RE the poo issue, I understand what you're getting at.... maybe its because it hasn't matured/solidified enough in the tummy? Also, Riley has had his pancreas checked to see its working properly right? Tom goes once a day only since he's had his enzymes, same time each day, and the enzymes help solidify as he can break down all the food and digest properly.... without them, the food would go in through his mouth and out without being digested very very quickly, and give him squidgy poo..... so maybe its a similar thing with Riley? Maybe not with the pancreas, but maybe he's low with something and it's having a similar reaction??


His pancreas test was all fine..I just can't put my finger on it..but I will..

Hope Tom is well..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news referral vet is happy to not put him back on ab's just the liver protector and he does not have to have a check up until April!
> 
> I have another theory on his poo :frown2: :shocked: if he goes to the toilet less than 24 hours from the last time he has had a poo, he tends to have more of an issue than when he goes 24 hours after the last time he went. Which is mainly outside. Bare with me..
> 
> ..so if he say went Saturday and tray deposit all fine, Sunday morning we get up he goes out and comes back with poo all over his tail. Then today tray deposit all fine (tho I don't know what time he went  ) there must be some significance in this that I'm just not seeing :mad2:
> 
> His poo is still squidgy and not as firm as it was last week..but that could be the stress of the vet visit..who knows!?!


Brilliant news Nicola , you must be so relieved  Cant really offer any "thoughts on the poo situation although you could be on to something with the timing.
Maybe you need to keep a poo diary 

Looks like its my turn to ask for positive vibes guys, Meeko hasn't eaten since yesterday and even then it wasn't much.He has picked at a bit of tuna,a few treats but nothing worth a mention really,he is quiet,sleepy although did have a 10 minute mad play at lunch time.
I gave him his mirtazapine this morning but not sure how much actually went in the cat.It hit his tongue first,causing him to froth and drool so may have lost most of it.I kind of hope so as it didn't make any difference to his appetite.
If he hasn't eaten overnight then it looks like we are off to the vets.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Brilliant news Nicola , you must be so relieved  Cant really offer any "thoughts on the poo situation although you could be on to something with the timing.
> Maybe you need to keep a poo diary
> 
> Looks like its my turn to ask for positive vibes guys, Meeko hasn't eaten since yesterday and even then it wasn't much.He has picked at a bit of tuna,a few treats but nothing worth a mention really,he is quiet,sleepy although did have a 10 minute mad play at lunch time.
> I gave him his mirtazapine this morning but not sure how much actually went in the cat.It hit his tongue first,causing him to froth and drool so may have lost most of it.I kind of hope so as it didn't make any difference to his appetite.
> If he hasn't eaten overnight then it looks like we are off to the vets.


Oh no..sending lots of eating vibes Meeko's way! Just get one back on track...

Come on Meeko you need to eat..no poorly cats at Christmas please..:frown2:

Hope he eats and feels better very soon xx

I do have a poo diary


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no..sending lots of eating vibes Meeko's way! Just get one back on track...
> 
> Come on Meeko you need to eat..no poorly cats at Christmas please..:frown2:
> 
> Hope he eats and feels better very soon xx
> 
> I do have a poo diary


I used to have a "vomit chart" on the PC  for Meeko I hasten to add

This has been lurking for a week or so,his appetite had dropped a bit but is now non-existant.Trouble is there is not a lot the vet can do,unless there is something else going on.

Hope it doesn't come to needing a vet visit as that just stresses him and makes him worse


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I used to have a "vomit chart" on the PC  for Meeko I hasten to add
> 
> This has been lurking for a week or so,his appetite had dropped a bit but is now non-existant.Trouble is there is not a lot the vet can do,unless there is something else going on.
> 
> Hope it doesn't come to needing a vet visit as that just stresses him and makes him worse


I really hope it's just a blip and nothing more..

The thing with blooming ibd is it changes and morphs so much it's hard to keep a handle on it..

I really hope a vet visit can be avoided..let me know xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I really hope it's just a blip and nothing more..
> 
> The thing with blooming ibd is it changes and morphs so much it's hard to keep a handle on it..
> 
> I really hope a vet visit can be avoided..let me know xx


Will do,hopefully if needed they will fit me in sometime tomorrow with Scott ,if not I'll must have to go with who ever is available,as long as it isn't the useless a*se that told me to feed him boiled chicken,when a) it seems that is something he may be allergic to and b) he wouldn't eat anyway


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Will do,hopefully if needed they will fit me in sometime tomorrow with Scott ,if not I'll must have to go with who ever is available,as long as it isn't the useless a*se that told me to feed him boiled chicken,when a) it seems that is something he may be allergic to and b) he wouldn't eat anyway


Like the vet that said Riley's bum issues was probably due to having a poo on an ants nest..what everytime? :mad2::mad2:

Now I will only ever see katrin..if she leaves the vets we will stalk her!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Like the vet that said Riley's bum issues was probably due to having a poo on an ants nest..what everytime? :mad2::mad2:
> 
> Now I will only ever see katrin..if she leaves the vets we will stalk her!!


:lol: :lol: I feel like that with Scott he is so easy to talk to and will actually research anything I mention if he hasn't heard of it (ie food/supplements/etc)
Being an Animal Hospital does have its advantages in having vets for "all situations" so there are others there who I do trust.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :lol: :lol: I feel like that with Scott he is so easy to talk to and will actually research anything I mention if he hasn't heard of it (ie food/supplements/etc)
> Being an Animal Hospital does have its advantages in having vets for "all situations" so there are others there who I do trust.


I have to pick up some more pills..will drop off some chocolates for the reception ladies as they are so lovely  not sure what to get katrin..got her some chocs last year, but does not feel enough..she researches all my ideas even the crazy ones


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have to pick up some more pills..will drop off some chocolates for the reception ladies as they are so lovely  not sure what to get katrin..got her some chocs last year, but does not feel enough..she researches all my ideas even the crazy ones


Oh sh*t I knew I had forgotten something  Hope I don't need to go tomorrow,I forgot to buy something for Uncle Scott and his band of helpers  I could manage a tin of of sweets and a bottle of naf wine but not what I would give,if I had a choice.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh sh*t I knew I had forgotten something  Hope I don't need to go tomorrow,I forgot to buy something for Uncle Scott and his band of helpers  I could manage a tin of of sweets and a bottle of naf wine but not what I would give,if I had a choice.


I'm sure they would be thankful..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm sure they would be thankful..


I suppose I could always go back in with something a bit better.Getting bu**er lugs fixed is more important ,hes lying ,legs in the air without a care in the world,or at least that's how it looks


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I suppose I could always go back in with something a bit better.Getting bu**er lugs fixed is more important ,hes lying ,legs in the air without a care in the world,or at least that's how it looks


Riley is laid on his back on my knee..with me stroking under his arms..him stretching out his paws and complaining when I stop to type on here 

All crossed he eats..xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley is laid on his back on my knee..with me stroking under his arms..him stretching out his paws and complaining when I stop to type on here
> 
> All crossed he eats..xx


If a member posted on the forum for advice I would say give usual food,if not eaten, don't replace with something else.Why the hell can I not take my own advice  I have saucers of different stuff all over the house in the hope he will be tempted.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If a member posted on the forum for advice I would say give usual food,if not eaten, don't replace with something else.Why the hell can I not take my own advice  I have saucers of different stuff all over the house in the hope he will be tempted.


You are not alone..remember I bend down and pretend to eat from the bowl!! I put fresh out..you are not alone!! Hopefully he will eat over night


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You are not alone..*remember I bend down and pretend to eat from the bowl!*! I put fresh out..you are not alone!! Hopefully he will eat over night


Tried that and got "the look"  I wish I had never heard of "hepatic lipidosis" it scares the hell out of me 

I think it is time I left him to it,hopefully he will find his appetite overnight,he has plenty of things to tempt him .I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow,thanks for listening to my ramblings x


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Tried that and got "the look"  I wish I had never heard of "hepatic lipidosis" it scares the hell out of me
> 
> I think it is time I left him to it,hopefully he will find his appetite overnight,he has plenty of things to tempt him .I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow,thanks for listening to my ramblings x


Google is not your friend  :frown2:

Hope for a better morning ..nite xx


----------



## buffie

Well no improvement so off to the vet we went.He has a very gassy tum,temp normal and all other vitals are fine worrying bit is his weight has dropped from 4.9kg to 4.6kg 
He has had a b12 inj and a cerenia inj too both stung him and he was even more unhappy 
He has an apt for tomorrow morning if no better with a view to having bloods done and an xray to see if there is something else going on  I'm more worried now than I was before I went.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Well no improvement so off to the vet we went.He has a very gassy tum,temp normal and all other vitals are fine worrying bit is his weight has dropped from 4.9kg to 4.6kg
> He has had a b12 inj and a cerenia inj too both stung him and he was even more unhappy
> He has an apt for tomorrow morning if no better with a view to having bloods done and an xray to see if there is something else going on  I'm more worried now than I was before I went.


Oh no not the news I was hoping to read. Is he still quiet and not eating? Hopefully the b12 will work as it's meant to stimulate appetite.. Still hopefull it's just a blip and normal Meeko service will resume xx

Has there been any change in food or treats? Only other thing I can think of as to why he is gassy. It's good his temp is normal.

I won't say try not to worry..as I would be the same..

Truck loads of positive vibes coming your way xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh no not the news I was hoping to read. Is he still quiet and not eating? Hopefully the b12 will work as it's meant to stimulate appetite.. Still hopefull it's just a blip and normal Meeko service will resume xx
> 
> Has there been any change in food or treats? Only other thing I can think of as to why he is gassy. It's good his temp is normal.
> 
> I won't say try not to worry..as I would be the same..
> 
> Truck loads of positive vibes coming your way xx


Still quiet and still not eating , but the cerenia made him very sleepy last time so hard to tell if he is feeling better now as he is asleep .He often has a gassy tum it seems to be a side effect of his form of IBD,but Scott says it is worse than he has felt it before.
No change in foods or treats so don't know what is causing it.I hate seeing him so down


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor little man..hopefully a good sleep will help


----------



## Cazzer

Oh poor Mr M hope he's feeling better soon x


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Poor little man..hopefully a good sleep will help





Cazzer said:


> Oh poor Mr M hope he's feeling better soon x


He has just had nearly half a bowl of water , don't know what that is all about still not interested in food but does seem a bit more relaxed.Looks like he will be going to vet again in the morning 
I will get the bloods done anyway whether he is a bit better or not,might as well.Hopefully it will rule things out.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He has just had nearly half a bowl of water , don't know what that is all about still not interested in food but does seem a bit more relaxed.Looks like he will be going to vet again in the morning
> I will get the bloods done anyway whether he is a bit better or not,might as well.Hopefully it will rule things out.


Yeah I would have bloods done too..maybe the jabs made him thirsty? Still better he is drinking than not..hopefully he will eat something for you..all crossed for him xx

Riley has put paid to my theory  been over 24 hours..let him out and when he came back in I had to clean him up  or he is coming out in sympathy with Meeko.. I have just told him I'm keeping him in now for a week..he is now sulking


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah I would have bloods done too..maybe the jabs made him thirsty? Still better he is drinking than not..hopefully he will eat something for you..all crossed for him xx
> 
> Riley has put paid to my theory  been over 24 hours..let him out and when he came back in I had to clean him up  or he is coming out in sympathy with Meeko.. I have just told him I'm keeping him in now for a week..he is now sulking


You know having this sticky is a godsend at times like this,somewhere we can "let it out" and be among those who know what we are going through Not getting too excited but he has just eaten a couple of mouthfuls of food  Tell Riley to stop b*ggering up his slaves theory's ,it all sounded so possible but now he has put the kibosh on that idea 
Will keep you posted but looks like we are off to the vets again


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You know having this sticky is a godsend at times like this,somewhere we can "let it out" and be among those who know what we are going through Not getting too excited but he has just eaten a couple of mouthfuls of food  Tell Riley to stop b*ggering up his slaves theory's ,it all sounded so possible but now he has put the kibosh on that idea
> Will keep you posted but looks like we are off to the vets again


Riley is in the cat house after I found him swinging from the Christmas lights (not bothered him for the weeks they have been up) he has the devil in him tonight!! He has I'm sure decided that as he has been grounded  my life will be made hell..luckily I'm made of strong stuff! He did the whole aggression thing with me..so just held him and rocked and now he is snoozing on my lap..is it a full moon??

:thumbup1: for eating food..it's a good sign..but yes I would get bloods done tomorrow as well just to rule anything else out..but it is a good sign he is feeling like eating as you know what they are like..they go off food when tummys are feeling sore..

Keep us updated!

I have another mission tomorrow..like the Christmas film when they have to find "that toy" that has sold out!! Still at least I will be saved from little mans complaints about being kept in


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley is in the cat house after I found him swinging from the Christmas lights (not bothered him for the weeks they have been up) he has the devil in him tonight!! He has I'm sure decided that as he has been grounded  my life will be made hell..luckily I'm made of strong stuff! He did the whole aggression thing with me..so just held him and rocked and now he is snoozing on my lap..is it a full moon??
> 
> :thumbup1: for eating food..it's a good sign..but yes I would get bloods done tomorrow as well just to rule anything else out..but it is a good sign he is feeling like eating as you know what they are like..they go off food when tummys are feeling sore..
> 
> Keep us updated!
> 
> I* have another mission tomorrow..like the Christmas film when they have to find "that toy" that has sold out*!! Still at least I will be saved from little mans complaints about being kept in


Oh good luck on that one the shops are full of lunatics  
Right I've been up since before 6am I just couldn't sleep lastnight ,so I'm off to bed for some much needed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's I hope  Meeko is away in the land off nod under his fleecy blanket so I will just leave him to it 
Will let you know what tomorrow brings xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh good luck on that one the shops are full of lunatics
> Right I've been up since before 6am I just couldn't sleep lastnight ,so I'm off to bed for some much needed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's I hope  Meeko is away in the land off nod under his fleecy blanket so I will just leave him to it
> Will let you know what tomorrow brings xx


Yeah I'm looking forward to it like a cat with ibd 

Hope Meeko has sweet healing dreams nite xx


----------



## buffie

We're back and paws crossed it doesn't look too bad,sorry to be a lazy b*gger but I couldn't face typing this all out again (on Cat Chat)

We're home He is hungry and has eaten a fair bit of food,mainly his dry food but has had some wet.
This will most likely be down to him having had a steroid inj and I think mirtazapine although it isn't on the list .
He seems really well at the minute so paws crossed he is over the worst.
His blood has been tested for just about everything possible some still to come back.
So far the only "high readings" have been MCH and MCHC which I believe could indicate anaemia caused by insufficient B12, the folate and cobalamin wont be back for a couple of days.
PLT is the other high reading not sure what this means for Meeko 
The wording used by vet re xrays is this...Xray's NAD except a small amount of gravelling pylorus-stomach not overly distended,suspect delayed gastrix emptying.
He has been prescribed Zantac syrup 1ml twice a day by syringe anyone got any advice as to the best way to do this,I don't see it being popular 
So back to vet tomorrow for a check and hopefully that is him on the road to recovery,if not then it looks like its referral time
So there we have it all I can say is,Thank god for insurance


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> We're back and paws crossed it doesn't look too bad,sorry to be a lazy b*gger but I couldn't face typing this all out again (on Cat Chat)
> 
> We're home He is hungry and has eaten a fair bit of food,mainly his dry food but has had some wet.
> This will most likely be down to him having had a steroid inj and I think mirtazapine although it isn't on the list .
> He seems really well at the minute so paws crossed he is over the worst.
> His blood has been tested for just about everything possible some still to come back.
> So far the only "high readings" have been MCH and MCHC which I believe could indicate anaemia caused by insufficient B12, the folate and cobalamin wont be back for a couple of days.
> PLT is the other high reading not sure what this means for Meeko
> The wording used by vet re xrays is this...Xray's NAD except a small amount of gravelling pylorus-stomach not overly distended,suspect delayed gastrix emptying.
> He has been prescribed Zantac syrup 1ml twice a day by syringe anyone got any advice as to the best way to do this,I don't see it being popular
> So back to vet tomorrow for a check and hopefully that is him on the road to recovery,if not then it looks like its referral time
> So there we have it all I can say is,Thank god for insurance


Be interesting when the folate and cobalamin comes back..Riley's have always been normal (one of the few normal things about him  ) b12 injections are a good idea anyway..but he has my sympathy as they do really hurt! Plt not sure what that is 

From the x-rays are they saying he is a bit constipated? Maybe (hopefully) that has been the problem and nothing else..

Hmmmm syrup, good luck with that one  Riley has syrup after the referral vet..was a case of grab, hold, open mouth, syringe in and give meds..then clean my wounds :frown2: actually to be fair he was not so bad, but I had evils after 

It's really good he is eating :thumbup1: has he been to the toilet as yet?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Be interesting when the folate and cobalamin comes back..Riley's have always been normal (one of the few normal things about him  ) b12 injections are a good idea anyway..but he has my sympathy as they do really hurt! Plt not sure what that is
> 
> From the x-rays are they saying he is a bit constipated? Maybe (hopefully) that has been the problem and nothing else..
> 
> Hmmmm syrup, good luck with that one  Riley has syrup after the referral vet..was a case of grab, hold, open mouth, syringe in and give meds..then clean my wounds :frown2: actually to be fair he was not so bad, but I had evils after
> 
> It's really good he is eating :thumbup1: has he been to the toilet as yet?


The MCH/MCHC look to be connected to the folate and cobalamin so if the MCH/MCHC are high they will be too.
PLT is I think platelet count and his is high which if I understand this correctly means his blood has too many platelets so will/could clot easily.
Having said this none of the results have been singled out as worrying by the vet.
The "gravelling pylorus"(not sure what that means) he thinks is down to a slow gastric system not constipation as such ,I think anyway I will get to speak with him tomorrow,he was at another surgery today when I picked Meeko up so saw a different vet who although he went through the xrays etc he wasn't as good at explaining things.
The change to Zantac seems to be because of the delayed gastric emptying so hopefully that will help.He has pee'd since he came home but no poo,but I forgot to ask if he had at the vets.
He is eating quite well and would eat more I think but I don't want to overload his tum,so I am giving him small amounts at a time.


----------



## nicolaa123

Hopefully Scott will put it into English for you 

Think best yo give smaller meals tonight..but very positive sign he wants to eat :thumbup1:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hopefully Scott will put it into English for you
> 
> Think best yo give smaller meals tonight..but very positive sign he wants to eat :thumbup1:


He doesn't want to settle at all ,he is still a bit "high" hope it wasn't the Zantac he had before I picked him up 
Have just been googling "gravelling pylorus" it doesn't look good,but then I suppose I don't know what they thought when they saw it on the xray Probably best not to google things you know b*gger all about


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He doesn't want to settle at all ,he is still a bit "high" hope it wasn't the Zantac he had before I picked him up
> Have just been googling "gravelling pylorus" it doesn't look good,but then I suppose I don't know what they thought when they saw it on the xray Probably best not to google things you know b*gger all about


Google is not your friend!!

I googled bile acids and nearly wet myself 

Best to get the vets word on it


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Google is not your friend!!
> 
> I googled bile acids and nearly wet myself
> 
> Best to get the vets word on it


I know ,but its too easy.I can still hear him on the phone saying about the gravelling....do we think it is an obstruction ..no..do we think we are missing something...no...so why do I have to think the worst possible thoughts  I will ask him tomorrow


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I know ,but its too easy.I can still hear him on the phone saying about the gravelling....do we think it is an obstruction ..no..do we think we are missing something...no...so why do I have to think the worst possible thoughts  I will ask him tomorrow


I am just the same!!


----------



## buffie

After a bit of a scare yesterday and a quicker than anticipated visit to the vets for more inj etc,it seems Meeko is now on the road to recovery .

He is eating okay,pooping fine and a lot brighter than he was.He isn't back to his pain in bum self yet but is headed in the right direction.
He has a 10 day course of pred and can stop the Zantac and go back to Famotidine so he will be a happier boy.
I asked about "gravelling pylorus" and was pleased to hear that it is "vet speak ,in the main" for food particles in the stomach after a period of non eating.It could mean more but in Meeko's case was considered most likely just due to delayed emptying of the stomach , big relief .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> After a bit of a scare yesterday and a quicker than anticipated visit to the vets for more inj etc,it seems Meeko is now on the road to recovery .
> 
> He is eating okay,pooping fine and a lot brighter than he was.He isn't back to his pain in bum self yet but is headed in the right direction.
> He has a 10 day course of pred and can stop the Zantac and go back to Famotidine so he will be a happier boy.
> I asked about "gravelling pylorus" and was pleased to hear that it is "vet speak ,in the main" for food particles in the stomach after a period of non eating.It could mean more but in Meeko's case was considered most likely just due to delayed emptying of the stomach , big relief .


Great news :thumbup1: hopefully he will be back to pain in the bum status very soon!! Good little man!!

Riley and I have fallen out :frown2: I'm trying a new rule of you ain't going out until you have used your tray..he is a stubborn little sausage!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Great news :thumbup1: hopefully he will be back to pain in the bum status very soon!! Good little man!!
> 
> Riley and I have fallen out :frown2: *I'm trying a new rule of you ain't going out until you have used your tray.*.he is a stubborn little sausage!!


Oh. ...good luck with that  cant see it going down too well 

I never thought I would miss Pain in Bum Meeko but I do,its much too quiet,although hopefully normal service will be resumed soon


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh. ...good luck with that  cant see it going down too well
> 
> I never thought I would miss Pain in Bum Meeko but I do,its much too quiet,although hopefully normal service will be resumed soon


It's going down like a lead balloon! :shocked: it's for his own good tho..he has been cut down to two hours of outside ness a day..but if I can get him to poo indoors he is less likely to have an issue (still a
Can't figure that one out) or I will get him into a morning poo routine in which case he can the go out in the evening.. I'm just trying to eliminate any factors that lead to a bad bum..I feel bad doing it as he likes going out..but I have to try!

I hope Meeko gets better..I've been worried about that little man!


----------



## Cazzer

I hope Meeko the merciless is back to his usual magnificent self 

Good luck with your plans Nicola - I hope Riley isn't whinging too much about reduced excursions!


----------



## buffie

It really isn't easy is it,trying to do what is best for them ,they just dont want to "join in"  Hope Mr R doesn't make life too unpleasant


----------



## buffie

Nicola..I was thinking of adding "pumpkin" to Meeko's diet what is it I'm looking for.I believe Waitrose sell it but have you seen it anywhere else ?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nicola..I was thinking of adding "pumpkin" to Meeko's diet what is it I'm looking for.I believe Waitrose sell it but have you seen it anywhere else ?


I'm sure amazon sell it if that's easier 

1 am he finally gave in..too late to let him out then


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm sure amazon sell it if that's easier
> 
> *1 am he finally gave in..too late to let him out then *


Now that could be a flaw in your plan  He wont be able to associate "poo in tray" with door opening if he waits till daft'o'clock to co-operate 
I'd rather just go in and buy off the shelf,its just that the only Waitrose I know of is a few miles away.I asked in Sainsbury's yesterday and from the look on the assistants face you would have thought I was asking for "curried poo"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Now that could be a flaw in your plan  He wont be able to associate "poo in tray" with door opening if he waits till daft'o'clock to co-operate
> I'd rather just go in and buy off the shelf,its just that the only Waitrose I know of is a few miles away.I asked in Sainsbury's yesterday and from the look on the assistants face you would have thought I was asking for "curried poo"


Sorry for late reply..manic weekend and hog day today 

I only know of waitrose that sell it in shops..which surprises me to be honest that no other supermarkets stock it!

How is mr m today..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for late reply..manic weekend and hog day today
> 
> I only know of waitrose that sell it in shops..which surprises me to be honest that no other supermarkets stock it!
> 
> How is mr m today..


Snap  sorry for late reply,been a bit busy here.
He is eating very well and both ends are behaving ,he still hasn't regained his energy level yet though,hopefully he will soon be a bouncy boy again.


----------



## Matti

So I've had a busy week running around sorting things out (which is why I've not been posting, but I am very glad to see that everyone seems to be showing signs of improvement in time for xmas) - and I should be moving into my new flat at the end of January, so Tom and I will finally be settled! Yay! [It's ground floor with floor to ceiling patio doors so I will be putting in a cat flap for little man finally too, so he can start going out without me].

As for little man's bum, he is doing so well at the moment, I'm just waiting for something bad to happen! His poos are good and solid, eating fine, no more hand-feeding required now I've changed his food (thanks to Nicola for being a lifesaver with that!!) and being fairly normal. He was sick during the night, but I think it was a hairball rather than actual sick, since it was a small spot and was mostly hair, although I will be keeping an eye. He did snarf his breakfast this morning as well, so his tummy must be feeling ok.

My only issue now is his behavour... I'm putting it down to me being at home now its Christmas and disturbing his routine, but he's very grumpy and tries to bite me if I pick him up or stroke him half the time (especially when he's hiding under the christmas tree). If he goes into his bed by the heating, that's fine and I can stroke him loads, but the rest of the time, he's just not interested. I've put in a feliway plugin today so we'll see if that helps but it's just frustrating! He's definitely NOT a lapcat (much to my dismay) but he's definitely gone downhill in terms of affection at the moment.


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti how is he now..could have been a sign that he is poorly, especially with the not peeing..



Buffie..how is mr m doing now any improvement?


----------



## Cazzer

Karlo went off to the vets today for his jabs. Well it's official he is a fatty bum  He weighs a mahoosive 6.3 kg (ok I know he's a NFC, but he is still over weight). Not sure how we are going to get him to loose weight as I feed him less than the daily rec amount of RC and he is obviously very hungry as it is (he gets really grumpy when hungry). More sessions I guess with the red dot!

Hope every one else is ok and that Tom has managed to pee!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Karlo went off to the vets today for his jabs. Well it's official he is a fatty bum  He weighs a mahoosive 6.3 kg (ok I know he's a NFC, but he is still over weight). Not sure how we are going to get him to loose weight as I feed him less than the daily rec amount of RC and he is obviously very hungry as it is (he gets really grumpy when hungry). More sessions I guess with the red dot!
> 
> Hope every one else is ok and that Tom has managed to pee!


Maybe a treadmill for the big boned one


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Karlo went off to the vets today for his jabs. Well it's official he is a fatty bum  He weighs a mahoosive 6.3 kg (ok I know he's a NFC, but he is still over weight). Not sure how we are going to get him to loose weight as I feed him less than the daily rec amount of RC and he is obviously very hungry as it is (he gets really grumpy when hungry). More sessions I guess with the red dot!
> 
> Hope every one else is ok and that Tom has managed to pee!





nicolaa123 said:


> Matti how is he now..could have been a sign that he is poorly, especially with the not peeing..
> 
> Buffie..how is mr m doing now any improvement?


Evening all  
Sounds like Karlo is doing well,whats a bit extra weight between friends,Meeko could use his excess at the moment 

Hope Tom is doing okay and has produced that elusive pee .

How is Riley doing,hope all is well in the poo department.

I havnt mentioned Meeko much as he hasn't really shown much improvement over the last couple of weeks.His appetite returned but he has been really quiet/miserable and looking uncomfortable.Vets are stumped and keep saying he seems okay and when all bloods/physical exams/xrays show nothing ,how can I argue.
Today he has been a lot brighter, playing and just generally more comfortable looking,still eating well and off his steroids.
I'm thinking that this is,in part,the reason for him picking up,but we shall see,tomorrow is another day.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Evening all
> Sounds like Karlo is doing well,whats a bit extra weight between friends,Meeko could use his excess at the moment
> 
> Hope Tom is doing okay and has produced that elusive pee .
> 
> How is Riley doing,hope all is well in the poo department.
> 
> I havnt mentioned Meeko much as he hasn't really shown much improvement over the last couple of weeks.His appetite returned but he has been really quiet/miserable and looking uncomfortable.Vets are stumped and keep saying he seems okay and when all bloods/physical exams/xrays show nothing ,how can I argue.
> Today he has been a lot brighter, playing and just generally more comfortable looking,still eating well and off his steroids.
> I'm thinking that this is,in part,the reason for him picking up,but we shall see,tomorrow is another day.


Hopefully it was the steroids and now he will be back to pain in the bum status :scared:

I'm not saying about Riley..its been about a week and only a minor bum wiping issue

But he has been "haunched" a bit of late  I'm trying to not focus on that too much..he is currently in his cat carrier right next to the radiator..how he is not over heating I will never know!!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hopefully it was the steroids and now he will be back to pain in the bum status :scared:
> 
> I'm not saying about Riley..its been about a week and only a minor bum wiping issue
> 
> But he has been "haunched" a bit of late  I'm trying to not focus on that too much..he is currently in his cat carrier right next to the radiator..how he is not over heating I will never know!!


I had a discussion with Scott the vet about Meeko sitting "hunched up" and he said he wouldn't say that the way he sits would indicate a cat in pain to him.Cant say I'm convinced but I'm not the vet ,he is.
He says the "prayer position" which a cat in pain adopts usually has the cat leaning with its forelegs under supporting the chest and its rear end in the air,which is definitely not the way Meeko sits,and as if to demonstrate he actually sat hunched up on the table as we were talking.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I had a discussion with Scott the vet about Meeko sitting "hunched up" and he said he wouldn't say that the way he sits would indicate a cat in pain to him.Cant say I'm convinced but I'm not the vet ,he is.
> He says the "prayer position" which a cat in pain adopts usually has the cat leaning with its forelegs under supporting the chest and its rear end in the air,which is definitely not the way Meeko sits,and as if to demonstrate he actually sat hunched up on the table as we were talking.


That's interesting..last night well early hours I woke to Riley on my shoulder purring..I know purring is not always a good sign with him..but he could have just been trying to wake me up!

Come on ibd cats.........we need you all to be better please..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> That's interesting..last night well early hours I woke to Riley on my shoulder purring..I know purring is not always a good sign with him..but he could have just been trying to wake me up!
> 
> *Come on ibd cats.........we need you all to be better please.*.


For sure ,I don't think our nerves will take any more worry for a while,lets hope for a trouble free 2014


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Matti how is he now..could have been a sign that he is poorly, especially with the not peeing..


He was a bit off all that day and the next... and then just as he was due to go to the vet, he suddenly did a massive poo and ran back in to the tray straight away for a big ol' pee. Since then he's fine, but I'm monitoring his pees and poos soooo closely now!


----------



## Matti

buffie said:


> I had a discussion with Scott the vet about Meeko sitting "hunched up" and he said he wouldn't say that the way he sits would indicate a cat in pain to him.Cant say I'm convinced but I'm not the vet ,he is.
> He says the "prayer position" which a cat in pain adopts usually has the cat leaning with its forelegs under supporting the chest and its rear end in the air,which is definitely not the way Meeko sits,and as if to demonstrate he actually sat hunched up on the table as we were talking.


I didn't know that (re the "prayer position")- that's usually Tom's go-to sitting pose.... now I am worried!! Although last check up said he was bright, greedy, putting on more weight, and poo is doing well. Now to try and wean the pesky kitty off his prednisolone. He's currently on 2 days off, 1 day on, but when i try to reduce any further, he'll have a mini set-back.

Also, he's turned into a right gobbler recently.... not that I'm complaining of course, but isn't that also a sign of gut issues flaring up, the same as not eating is? He'll eat all his breakfast/dinner and literally cry for more- every time I go to the kitchen he's on my heels staring at me with a pleading expression in his eyes....


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> I didn't know that (re the "prayer position")- that's usually Tom's go-to sitting pose.... now I am worried!! Although last check up said he was bright, greedy, putting on more weight, and poo is doing well. Now to try and wean the pesky kitty off his prednisolone. He's currently on 2 days off, 1 day on, but when i try to reduce any further, he'll have a mini set-back.
> 
> Also, he's turned into a right gobbler recently.... not that I'm complaining of course, but isn't that also a sign of gut issues flaring up, the same as not eating is? He'll eat all his breakfast/dinner and literally cry for more- every time I go to the kitchen he's on my heels staring at me with a pleading expression in his eyes....


Could be a sign, could not be a sign that's the horrible thing..second guessing all the time!! Could be a growth spurt, the colder weather, feeling more relaxed about food etc

What's he eating now, still the z/d. Sounds like he is over the food/bowl phobia :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok you might not believe I'm about to say this....but!!

I think I'm going to have to start cutting back on Riley's food..he is currently eating 400g of food per day..not sure when we snuck over that amount 

He is getting how can I put it nicely..uhm chunkier :scared: whilst it's a good thing in the back of my mind I'm thinking he is a good weight now and I would quite like to keep him this weight as things are ok (note I said ok  )

How do I do this..not been here before!!


----------



## Cazzer

Heavens Nicola another big boned boy obviously :scared:

Karlo I'm just trying to cut back on his food. He's very reluctant to chase the laser (he's a bit nervous when the other cats chase it). Kgosi another big boned boy will happily chase it though. Will have to try Karlo with other toys I think.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Heavens Nicola another big boned boy obviously :scared:
> 
> Karlo I'm just trying to cut back on his food. He's very reluctant to chase the laser (he's a bit nervous when the other cats chase it). Kgosi another big boned boy will happily chase it though. Will have to try Karlo with other toys I think.


Ha ha..that seriously made me chuckle!

Riley's new trick at night is to wake me up as he wants the heating on as his carrier is by the radiator and he is a bit chilly  otherwise I get paws in my face :scared: he is more sedentary than a carpet! I know it's winter and all that....

I try to play with toys with Riley but if he ain't in the mood I just get the "look" :lol:


----------



## Matti

Cazzer said:


> Heavens Nicola another big boned boy obviously :scared:
> 
> Karlo I'm just trying to cut back on his food. He's very reluctant to chase the laser (he's a bit nervous when the other cats chase it). Kgosi another big boned boy will happily chase it though. Will have to try Karlo with other toys I think.


Have you tried Da Bird/Flying Frenzy with Karlo?? Tom is obsessed with his and will run around so much he ends up laying flat out on the wooden floor panting to cool down... Little sweaty paw prints get left everywhere. Normally he's a 'great for 2mins then I'm bored' kinda cat when it comes to toys!


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Could be a sign, could not be a sign that's the horrible thing..second guessing all the time!! Could be a growth spurt, the colder weather, feeling more relaxed about food etc
> 
> What's he eating now, still the z/d. Sounds like he is over the food/bowl phobia :thumbup:


No he's off z/d!! He's on the kangaroo- I forgot to say he loved it so much I placed my first order with them via email  he has the smaller cans as I mix it with hydrolyzed protein dry and yes, the bowl issue has now completely gone- I started by putting some on the floor mat and some in the bowl and he loves it so much now, the bowl is empty almost as soon as it touches the floor, and completely licked clean! No more bowl worries (although I did buy 2 flat 'bowls' so I think that helped because he still shakes his head if food touches his whiskers so I think that was part of the bowl aversion)


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> Ha ha..that seriously made me chuckle!
> 
> Riley's new trick at night is to wake me up as he wants the heating on as his carrier is by the radiator and he is a bit chilly  otherwise I get paws in my face :scared: he is more sedentary than a carpet! I know it's winter and all that....
> 
> I try to play with toys with Riley but if he ain't in the mood I just get the "look" :lol:


That's so cute!!!  

Ha I know that 'look'!!

Tom's new feed me trick is to pull up the carpet outside the bedroom door if I don't feed him early enough in the morning. He knows not to pull it up so he makes just enough noise to wake me up but not enough damage to get into trouble!! Cheeky thing!! Although if he's scared of something then the carpet comes up and he hides underneath it.... Like this!!


----------



## Cazzer

Matti said:


> Have you tried Da Bird/Flying Frenzy with Karlo?? Tom is obsessed with his and will run around so much he ends up laying flat out on the wooden floor panting to cool down... Little sweaty paw prints get left everywhere. Normally he's a 'great for 2mins then I'm bored' kinda cat when it comes to toys!


Thanks for the suggestion

Karlo doesn't show any interest in any wand type toy. The others go crazy for it. He used to love the knobbly plastic balls from zooplus but has appeared to have lost them all I'm going to see if I can find them or order him some more. Then I think i will shut the others out of the kitchen and just play with him and Kgosi. I think Karlo is more likely to play when there is fewer cats around.


----------



## nicolaa123

I woke up about 3 am..in a panic as I thought I had lost the use of my legs  to find Riley laid on them :lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> No he's off z/d!! He's on the kangaroo- I forgot to say he loved it so much I placed my first order with them via email  he has the smaller cans as I mix it with hydrolyzed protein dry and yes, the bowl issue has now completely gone- I started by putting some on the floor mat and some in the bowl and he loves it so much now, the bowl is empty almost as soon as it touches the floor, and completely licked clean! No more bowl worries (although I did buy 2 flat 'bowls' so I think that helped because he still shakes his head if food touches his whiskers so I think that was part of the bowl aversion)


So pleased to read your news!!!! No adverse signs back end wise??

I'm so pleased he is eating :thumbup:


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone

I have just joined so please bear with me!

I have a even month old Maine Coon called Blue bought from a registered MC breeder and seen at home with mum and dad. Breeder told me she has to wean early as mum couldnt keep up with demand from 6 kittens and had 2 litters in quick time as she got caught by resident breeding boy.

Blue has always been a bit loose but the week before Christmas started with runny poo...loose watery stools a bit like gravy but some form. She was wormed straight away but symptoms carried on. I got her into her vet the day after Boxing Day. 

I will give people the costs of treatments etc as much as I can as after looking online feel it might help......
Initially I had switched her to Royal Canine sensitive. She had been on a mix of wet and dry with siome chicken and prawn. Vet advised her to stay on this and prescribed pro kolin 1ml twice daily £12 per tube. What I thought was her issue was a really sore anus/bum and constant loss of poo/faeces. I resorted on Boxing Day to using a blob of anusol on her to relieve the pain. I know cats cant accept a lot of over the counter preps like dogs but I had been all over the net. Blue was also wormed by vet.
I had taken a stool/poo sample as Im a nurse so we do stuff like that! i was asked to collect 2 more samples in the same pot and it was sent for aanalysis £93 cost.

Blue at all times has a good appetite and will drink water. I did put a bit of sugar and salt in her water as I worried about dehydration...a sprinkle of each

Sample can back showing positive for clostridium perfringens so treatment is currently metronidazole antibiotic 0.8ml twice a day £30.00. pro kolin enteric half a sachet twice a day £15.00 to get good gut bacteria in and RC food gastro intestinal. Stools are almost immediately better. Bum has cleared up as I stalked her with anusol and she is having the antibiotics on plain chicken and powder mixed in with her wet food.

Vet when pushed has mentioned IBS. I am already looking into buying a grinder to do her own food. A lot of the medicines mentioned can be bought online cheaper so that is an option but antibiotics need a prescription. I believe your vet has to give you the script which you can fill online and if Blue needs maintenance meds i will look into buying them to keep her insurance premiums down.

I have managed the mess by covering all sofas and taking up rugs. She is an ear sucker so we have a bath towel on the bed to mop any leakage and I managed to trim radically her hind legs and under tail before she got too sore. I have bought safe cleaning products and mop floor with waskhing up liquids with frequent mop head changes. I have seen varied info online about using pumpkin but I did try plain yoghurt on Boxing day in desperation. Vet says she needs more fibre in her diet. I have always bought what I thought good quality dry food and bought online wet food but am guilty of trying different brands. 

I worry the poo might come back and we might need another poo sample test or bloods incase its IBS. So far Blue has responded well to antibiotics and is back to her mad self jumping around.

Hope this helps and I am happy to answer any queries. Although I am a bit medical and can prescribe also I was greatful for my vets advice to back up what Ihad done. BC


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I have just joined so please bear with me!
> 
> I have a even month old Maine Coon called Blue bought from a registered MC breeder and seen at home with mum and dad. Breeder told me she has to wean early as mum couldnt keep up with demand from 6 kittens and had 2 litters in quick time as she got caught by resident breeding boy.
> 
> Blue has always been a bit loose but the week before Christmas started with runny poo...loose watery stools a bit like gravy but some form. She was wormed straight away but symptoms carried on. I got her into her vet the day after Boxing Day.
> 
> I will give people the costs of treatments etc as much as I can as after looking online feel it might help......
> Initially I had switched her to Royal Canine sensitive. She had been on a mix of wet and dry with siome chicken and prawn. Vet advised her to stay on this and prescribed pro kolin 1ml twice daily £12 per tube. What I thought was her issue was a really sore anus/bum and constant loss of poo/faeces. I resorted on Boxing Day to using a blob of anusol on her to relieve the pain. I know cats cant accept a lot of over the counter preps like dogs but I had been all over the net. Blue was also wormed by vet.
> I had taken a stool/poo sample as Im a nurse so we do stuff like that! i was asked to collect 2 more samples in the same pot and it was sent for aanalysis £93 cost.
> 
> Blue at all times has a good appetite and will drink water. I did put a bit of sugar and salt in her water as I worried about dehydration...a sprinkle of each
> 
> Sample can back showing positive for clostridium perfringens so treatment is currently metronidazole antibiotic 0.8ml twice a day £30.00. pro kolin enteric half a sachet twice a day £15.00 to get good gut bacteria in and RC food gastro intestinal. Stools are almost immediately better. Bum has cleared up as I stalked her with anusol and she is having the antibiotics on plain chicken and powder mixed in with her wet food.
> 
> Vet when pushed has mentioned IBS. I am already looking into buying a grinder to do her own food. A lot of the medicines mentioned can be bought online cheaper so that is an option but antibiotics need a prescription. I believe your vet has to give you the script which you can fill online and if Blue needs maintenance meds i will look into buying them to keep her insurance premiums down.
> 
> I have managed the mess by covering all sofas and taking up rugs. She is an ear sucker so we have a bath towel on the bed to mop any leakage and I managed to trim radically her hind legs and under tail before she got too sore. I have bought safe cleaning products and mop floor with waskhing up liquids with frequent mop head changes. I have seen varied info online about using pumpkin but I did try plain yoghurt on Boxing day in desperation. Vet says she needs more fibre in her diet. I have always bought what I thought good quality dry food and bought online wet food but am guilty of trying different brands.
> 
> I worry the poo might come back and we might need another poo sample test or bloods incase its IBS. So far Blue has responded well to antibiotics and is back to her mad self jumping around.
> 
> Hope this helps and I am happy to answer any queries. Although I am a bit medical and can prescribe also I was greatful for my vets advice to back up what Ihad done. BC


Hi..sorry to hear blue has been unwell..hopefully on the mend now. Couple of things..what did they test for on the poo sample? I think your vet would mean ibd, tho it sounds like they are going down the bacteria route, which could be likely and also why you have seen a good response to the metronidazole.

Any dietary changes now should be done very very very very slowly, personally I would have a period of 4-6 months wellness on food that is not causing an issue before changing and then I would choose good quality, grain free and single proteins to avoid a stomach upset that could cause the symptoms to come back.

Hopefully it's just a bacteria issue and the ab's will do their job and blue will fully recover. If they then suspect ibd blue will need a scan, endeoscopy and potentially full biopsies taken. If this is the case I would recommend getting them done at a referral vet.


----------



## Matti

nicolaa123 said:


> So pleased to read your news!!!! No adverse signs back end wise??
> 
> I'm so pleased he is eating :thumbup:


Not so far!! *fingers and toes crossed*


----------



## nicolaa123

Matti said:


> Not so far!! *fingers and toes crossed*


Oh brilliant news!!


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi Nicola and thanksfor your reply.

vet was cagey about what he thought was the underlying issue. I know the poo is a symptom but when I pushed him on our 1st consult he seemed to feel she could be reacting to a substance....allergic reaction or it could be IBS. Blue has no appetite loss or vomiting so I am hoping its not IBS....I am trying to get throught the pages of posts and write down foods to try in time. I have tried plain chicken o get the abx into her and she seems fine with this and RC gastro intestinal. I worry she mIght start up again once abx finish.

vet has asked me to let me know how she gets on and i plan to ring mid week. I will take onboard your advise about keeping her on a plain stable diet and will look at buying some grain free foods online. I have access to rabbit so plan to try raw or partial raw food with taurine etc in time.

Thanks for all the previous posts as they give me ideas and commercial food ideas. I am now wondering if Blue haing prawns is a culprit for her flare up...clos perfringems is found in crustaceans and fish apart from tuna water if deffo off her menu now

kind regards Susan:smile5:


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi Nicola and thanksfor your reply.
> 
> vet was cagey about what he thought was the underlying issue. I know the poo is a symptom but when I pushed him on our 1st consult he seemed to feel she could be reacting to a substance....allergic reaction or it could be IBS. Blue has no appetite loss or vomiting so I am hoping its not IBS....I am trying to get throught the pages of posts and write down foods to try in time. I have tried plain chicken o get the abx into her and she seems fine with this and RC gastro intestinal. I worry she mIght start up again once abx finish.
> 
> vet has asked me to let me know how she gets on and i plan to ring mid week. I will take onboard your advise about keeping her on a plain stable diet and will look at buying some grain free foods online. I have access to rabbit so plan to try raw or partial raw food with taurine etc in time.
> 
> Thanks for all the previous posts as they give me ideas and commercial food ideas. I am now wondering if Blue haing prawns is a culprit for her flare up...clos perfringems is found in crustaceans and fish apart from tuna water if deffo off her menu now
> 
> kind regards Susan:smile5:


Can also be from a changing diet.. See how she is but don't be in a hurry to change food..give time for the tummy to settle then slowly change any food.

I hope it's not ibd for yours and blues sake


----------



## nicolaa123

Sleep well jasper..mittens is waiting to play xx


----------



## bluecordelia

Thanks again Nicola,

I am guilty of changing brands ie RC Hills Bozita wet food and giving her chicken breast and some prawns....We will stick to the RC per vet and plain chicken for 6 months. I am ringing vet tomorrow to update him. She continues to be great on day 4 antibiotics and now is back to a normal bowel habit ie solid and one per day.

thanks again for your advice and we promise to keep to plain and simple.

Regards Susan and Blue


----------



## bluecordelia

I have just looked at the wet food discussion.......wow so many but does anyone have experience of these german superfoods?


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Thanks again Nicola,
> 
> I am guilty of changing brands ie RC Hills Bozita wet food and giving her chicken breast and some prawns....We will stick to the RC per vet and plain chicken for 6 months. I am ringing vet tomorrow to update him. She continues to be great on day 4 antibiotics and now is back to a normal bowel habit ie solid and one per day.
> 
> thanks again for your advice and we promise to keep to plain and simple.
> 
> Regards Susan and Blue


Blue is adorable :001_wub:

Good to hear normal poo! Hopefully the ab's will clear the bacteria and normal poo will continue :yesnod:

Just to note when you stop the ab's you may see a runny poo..don't panic  Riley when he stopped the ab had a few days after of runny poo..

..talking of Riley..tail wipe tonight..nothing too bad but just a bit annoying as he has been doing ok..just a blip just a blip we hope!


----------



## bluecordelia

I am awaiting vet to let me know what next step is after abx finish. Blue is lively n hungry. After reading most posts my heart goes out to those suffering with ibs. I have lots of experience with bambinos with tummy issues and most practice what l preach ie no early weaning simple foods no sugar salt drink water. Usually its not ibs and clears im time
will let u know about vets reply. Riley go go n keep well


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> I am awaiting vet to let me know what next step is after abx finish. Blue is lively n hungry. After reading most posts my heart goes out to those suffering with ibs. I have lots of experience with bambinos with tummy issues and most practice what l preach ie no early weaning simple foods no sugar salt drink water. Usually its not ibs and clears im time
> will let u know about vets reply. Riley go go n keep well


I think I can say this on behalf of owners with ibd cats..we treasure the good days, we worry about the bad days, we worry that the ibd will progress into something else and we won't be able to save our precious ones. We are so tuned into our cats its actually worrying!!

Its a horrible condition as it can't be cured and really hurts their little bodies and there is nothing we can do..

I hope blue never goes through it..

But as said we treasure every good day!!

As for food..best thing is wet and no grains as you dont know as yet if a food issue then there are quite a few brands you can try..but only after she is well again and then slowly..(I know im going on again  )


----------



## bluecordelia

I am looking at the 3 brands on happy kitten website. I am also looking in meds as vet had to give u a prescription for antibxs n pred and u can fill this privately with online vet meds sites. You can also get meds abroad ie turkey Spain via their pharmacy. I worry about her insurance and thought id only need it for bumps n scrapes. We promise chicken and dry food vet gave us for a good few months and then grain free. I had given rc pouches but realise how poor they are with cereals pussums don't need. will keep people posted and have found all meds online ie probiotics for less than half the vets price. Hoping we all have a clear day n good weekend &#55357;&#56842;


----------



## bluecordelia

Vet is very happy at her progress. He has asked I keep Blue on the RC dry food and probiotics. I am getting the probiotics online. 

Will post in a couple of days how we are getting on as abx finish tomorrow.


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Vet is very happy at her progress. He has asked I keep Blue on the RC dry food and probiotics. I am getting the probiotics online.
> 
> Will post in a couple of days how we are getting on as abx finish tomorrow.


Brilliant news :thumbup1:


----------



## nicolaa123

Well..ten steps back :mad5: twice yesterday he had a runny bum..I actually put him on the side of the sink and cupped water over his bum and tail..bless him he sat there and let me clean him..

I'm wondering if it's the liver tablets.. I need to speak to the vet to order some more chlorambucil so will ask then..also he did spit his chlorambucil but I did put it back in again so maybe that lost some of its power

Saying that he has been fine today no issues but has been "hungry" 

I'm frantically searching for a new novel protein..


----------



## nicolaa123

Well poo issues continue..I'm going to stop the liver tablets for a few days to see if any change..I can't see why they would affect him..but hey this is ibd..

Hope all others are doing ok..


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi blue is ok after stopping abx on Saturday bit i font want to relax yet. I bought grau grain free for her as the happy kitty site was dear with posting. I am sure zooplus will stock the brands soon. 

I saw venison pieces in aldi and was was to stock up on those. My other thought was rabbit from local market as you get the thymus gland n connective tissue. Hope your pussum gets better as the sore bum was the bit that upset bluey n me the most


Will check back in a few days. We are still on rc dry n plain cooked chicken. Blue turned down marks cooked chicken for crap Iceland brand. The reintroduction of the litter she had as a baby seems to have got here back in an enclosed big tray not the shower tray. Again i bought fancy scented crystal litter which was probably a mistake
Keep on mopping x


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi blue is ok after stopping abx on Saturday bit i font want to relax yet. I bought grau grain free for her as the happy kitty site was dear with posting. I am sure zooplus will stock the brands soon.
> 
> I saw venison pieces in aldi and was was to stock up on those. My other thought was rabbit from local market as you get the thymus gland n connective tissue. Hope your pussum gets better as the sore bum was the bit that upset bluey n me the most
> 
> Will check back in a few days. We are still on rc dry n plain cooked chicken. Blue turned down marks cooked chicken for crap Iceland brand. The reintroduction of the litter she had as a baby seems to have got here back in an enclosed big tray not the shower tray. Again i bought fancy scented crystal litter which was probably a mistake
> Keep on mopping x


Pleased to hear blue is still doing well..long may it continue!

I did not give Riley is liver tablet yesterday or today and bum wise all good..will give it a couple of days and see what happens then speak with my vet to see if there is an alternative we can try..


----------



## nicolaa123

Bit of reading..quite interesting..

Inflammatory Bowel Disease - Yofie


----------



## bluecordelia

Metronidazole or flagyl is quite a heavy abx. I had to sign a vet disclaimer. Dose for us 0.8 mls twice a day for 6 days. I don't know if bluey had turned corner anyway as acute clos perfingens phase s 7-10 days. Diet for me is a major consideration plus i know we read a lot but i consider stress a major too. Blue was from a big litter and weaned early. Maine coons have cardiac n hip problems but also gut problems. I lost my other cat before and consider the changes from coming home ie changed litter food etc plus losing her grumpy mate could have set her off. I cant evidence this but looking diet toileting i think has helped the meds
interesting article. Grau grain free arrived but embargoed until february.x


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Metronidazole or flagyl is quite a heavy abx. I had to sign a vet disclaimer. Dose for us 0.8 mls twice a day for 6 days. I don't know if bluey had turned corner anyway as acute clos perfingens phase s 7-10 days. Diet for me is a major consideration plus i know we read a lot but i consider stress a major too. Blue was from a big litter and weaned early. Maine coons have cardiac n hip problems but also gut problems. I lost my other cat before and consider the changes from coming home ie changed litter food etc plus losing her grumpy mate could have set her off. I cant evidence this but looking diet toileting i think has helped the meds
> interesting article. Grau grain free arrived but embargoed until february.x


A disclaimer seems a bit much for metronidazole even when Riley was on a hefty dose I did not have to sign anything just look for "signs"

Loosing a friend for cats can be a stress trigger so you are right to consider it..

Good to hear about the food


----------



## nicolaa123

Well since stopping the liver meds he has no had any issues with the back end ..I will talk to vet as need to order some mor chlorambucil for him so will leave a message for her to see if anything else we can try as I really want him to have some sort of liver protectant until April when his liver is re - tested..


----------



## buffie

Sorry I havnt been around on the thread for a while,been trying to avoid everything IBD related as Meeko was just not responding at all.
This past week he has been so much better and has a fairly good appetite for him.
He has been off all dry food for over 2 weeks now and apart from a couple of slip ups where he had to have his wet diet supplemented he seems to be doing well and .....drum roll.......... has put on nearly 500gms in 3 weeks  He is back up to 5kgs again :thumbsup:

Hope it was just a reaction to the liver meds,poor Mr R he has enough problems without his drugs "biting him on the bum" so to speak


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry I havnt been around on the thread for a while,been trying to avoid everything IBD related as Meeko was just not responding at all.
> This past week he has been so much better and has a fairly good appetite for him.
> He has been off all dry food for over 2 weeks now and apart from a couple of slip ups where he had to have his wet diet supplemented he seems to be doing well and .....drum roll.......... has put on nearly 500gms in 3 weeks  He is back up to 5kgs again :thumbsup:
> 
> Hope it was just a reaction to the liver meds,poor Mr R he has enough problems without his drugs "biting him on the bum" so to speak


Brilliant news and a great weight gain..well done Meeko!! I'm pleased he is doing better..long may that continue!

Riley well I know he is difficult with almost anything  I imagine it's the liver meds..but we will see if there is any alternative he can have


----------



## bluecordelia

Hope all pusscats are doing ok. Blue is still pooping solid once a day. We tried turkey this week as crap i eland chicken ran out. We are still sprinkling probiotics powder on dry food but not as much as whole sachet a day. I am still watching for any discomfort. Will let everyone know when i slowly start the grau. 
I didn't ask before as the special centre who do the ibs testing as i was going to cross that later but could someone explain to us novices what where and costs. I have tried to put costs on my posts to help. 

Hoping for good days for you all


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hope all pusscats are doing ok. Blue is still pooping solid once a day. We tried turkey this week as crap i eland chicken ran out. We are still sprinkling probiotics powder on dry food but not as much as whole sachet a day. I am still watching for any discomfort. Will let everyone know when i slowly start the grau.
> I didn't ask before as the special centre who do the ibs testing as i was going to cross that later but could someone explain to us novices what where and costs. I have tried to put costs on my posts to help.
> 
> Hoping for good days for you all


Depends on whether at the vet or referral vet, plus vets charge different cost..

Tests Riley had at referral vets, which included ultra scan and endeoscopy, poo and bloods came to £1811.20 inc vat 

I will look up the costs the bloods, poo and scans cost at the vets..from memory it was about £800 ish but I might be wrong..will have to check..not got that to hand 

Good to hear blue us doing well :thumbup1:


----------



## bluecordelia

Wow but you would pay to stop the pain n upset. Reflecting back i wish i had got something for her bot
i think she could have coped with runny bum but the soreness was heartbreaking. I kept up the anusol when i could get near but i will insist next time on pain relief. our poo test was £97 but i hope people aren't put off by costs as apart from antibiotics all other meds are half the vets costs ie probiotics. Susan x


----------



## nicolaa123

Well since stopping the liver meds..normal service has resumed  sad face as he needs the liver meds..I will call my vet tomorrow, hopefully I will be able to speak with her about if..seems far to coincidental that he is not having them and back end is better 

I do check his gums any eyes daily to see if any signs of jaundice..but am little worried he is not on them, but then he is "better" off them..

So blinking hard! :cryin:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well since stopping the liver meds..normal service has resumed  sad face as he needs the liver meds..I will call my vet tomorrow, hopefully I will be able to speak with her about if..seems far to coincidental that he is not having them and back end is better
> 
> I do check his gums any eyes daily to see if any signs of jaundice..but am little worried he is not on them, but then he is "better" off them..
> 
> So blinking hard! :cryin:


Isnt that just typical  ,but I suppose not surprising as they(IBD cats) have a sensitivity to ingredients so could have a tendency to react I would have thought.Hope he either wont need them or there is an alternative he can try.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Isnt that just typical  ,but I suppose not surprising as they(IBD cats) have a sensitivity to ingredients so could have a tendency to react I would have thought.Hope he either wont need them or there is an alternative he can try.


He is looking very healthy so I'm hoping that means the liver is fixing itself as livers can..he won't have bloods done until April..but i do think he condition wise he is very good, which wouldn't be the case if the liver was deteriorating.

I will see what she thinks, but I'm bit overly concerned, to me to get the back end behaving and food being absorbed, weight gain etc will help the liver..that's what I hope anyway 

Hope mr m is ok..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He is looking very healthy so I'm hoping that means the liver is fixing itself as livers can..he won't have bloods done until April..but i do think he condition wise he is very good, which wouldn't be the case if the liver was deteriorating.
> 
> I will see what she thinks, but I'm bit overly concerned, to me to get the back end behaving and food being absorbed, weight gain etc will help the liver..that's what I hope anyway
> 
> Hope mr m is ok..


So pleased Riley is doing well and surely if he is looking well /maintaining weight etc as you say that doesn't point to a cat with liver issues.
Mr M is still doing okay,has the occasional "off day" where I have to relent and give some dry food but otherwise all seems to be heading the right way.
Just got a cheque from Pet Plan today for his last treatment £653 :w00t: not bad considering I only gave it to the vet on the 30 dec.With the holidays etc I expected it to take a bit longer


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> So pleased Riley is doing well and surely if he is looking well /maintaining weight etc as you say that doesn't point to a cat with liver issues.
> Mr M is still doing okay,has the occasional "off day" where I have to relent and give some dry food but otherwise all seems to be heading the right way.
> Just got a cheque from Pet Plan today for his last treatment £653 :w00t: not bad considering I only gave it to the vet on the 30 dec.With the holidays etc I expected it to take a bit longer


Thank goodness for insurance!! Pleased to hear he is doing ok..think that's the best any of us can hope for


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thank goodness for insurance!! Pleased to hear he is doing ok..think that's the best any of us can hope for


I'm just grateful for the good days and hopeful that any bad days pass quickly ,so far he always seems to come out of a "flare up" none the worse,long may it continue.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi all blue has had a teaspoon of grain free grau tonight. She was trying to eat an unopened pack of dog food which was in a carrier bag when I sprung her. I guess plain chicken n rc sensitive aren't doing it. i will be watching her keenly. Grau was chewed n bowl licked clean. 

Hope all pussums are good x


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi all blue has had a teaspoon of grain free grau tonight. She was trying to eat an unopened pack of dog food which was in a carrier bag when I sprung her. I guess plain chicken n rc sensitive aren't doing it. i will be watching her keenly. Grau was chewed n bowl licked clean.
> 
> Hope all pussums are good x


Riley is currently trying to eat a cardboard box  that's why he is not allowed to keep them  now he is killing his toy mouse..so he is fine..all his toys are over the living room and he is "killing" everything 

Pleased to hear blue is doing well..keep us updated


----------



## nicolaa123

Spoke with my vet today, she thinks as long as he is showing signs of being well, its better to stop the distolit and im to keep monitoring him until his check up in April. I agree with her, he is clinically well right now. I weighed him on my scales last night and showed 4.42 kg  I know different to vet scales but he is more chunky  can't feel all his bones and see is hips anymore 

I'm going to the vets to pick up his meds later, im wondering whether to take him for a weight check or not??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Spoke with my vet today, she thinks as long as he is showing signs of being well, its better to stop the distolit and im to keep monitoring him until his check up in April. I agree with her, he is clinically well right now. I weighed him on my scales last night and showed 4.42 kg  I know different to vet scales but he is more chunky  can't feel all his bones and see is hips anymore
> 
> I'm going to the vets to pick up his meds later, im wondering whether to take him for a weight check or not??


Sounds like Riley is still headed in the right direction,Difficult to know what to suggest re weighing ,I probably would take Meeko but he doesn't mind weighing too much as long as he doesn't have to see the "green man"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sounds like Riley is still headed in the right direction,Difficult to know what to suggest re weighing ,I probably would take Meeko but he doesn't mind weighing too much as long as he doesn't have to see the "green man"


I decided not to take him as I had made a promise to him no vets until April 

He is looking good right now so I'm happy with him and how he is..I would love to know what he weighs right now but it's more for me..so not that fair really to him as I don't thing there is a problem..if that makes sense


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I decided not to take him as I had made a promise to him no vets until April
> 
> He is looking good right now so I'm happy with him and how he is..I would love to know what he weighs right now but it's more for me..so not that fair really to him as I don't thing there is a problem..if that makes sense


Perfect sense  No point in breaking a promise just to confirm what you are already thinking .He is fine so no point in pushing your luck


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Perfect sense  No point in breaking a promise just to confirm what you are already thinking .He is fine so no point in pushing your luck


Yeah it would have been for my benefit rather than his..

How is mr m


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah it would have been for my benefit rather than his..
> 
> How is mr m


He's up for sale on flea-bay . 
Back on hunger strike again but doesn't seem to be ill


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> He's up for sale on flea-bay .
> Back on hunger strike again but doesn't seem to be ill


You can send him down to me for "fat camp"  maybe just holding out for the carbs  when Riley is (still has his biscuit need) wanting his biscuit fix in just tell him..eat or don't eat it's your problem!! He then eats his wet..I've not had to give him biscuits for a while now..I was so worried about weight I would give in and give him a d/d biscuit..but now it's tough love..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> You can send him down to me for "fat camp"  maybe just holding out for the carbs  when Riley is (still has his biscuit need) wanting his biscuit fix in just tell him..eat or don't eat it's your problem!! He then eats his wet..I've not had to give him biscuits for a while now..I was so worried about weight I would give in and give him a d/d biscuit..but now it's tough love..


Sadly not,I gave in a couple of days ago and gave him some dry food and he isn't even keen to eat that either.He hasn't stopped completely he is just picking at his food ,I'm just not sure what is going on with him.I will take him to the vet if he keeps it up or starts to look ill,but at the moment all I could say to the vet is he is being picky


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sadly not,I gave in a couple of days ago and gave him some dry food and he isn't even keen to eat that either.He hasn't stopped completely he is just picking at his food ,I'm just not sure what is going on with him.I will take him to the vet if he keeps it up or starts to look ill,but at the moment all I could say to the vet is he is being picky


That's the problem we see the minute difference in them and worry..come on. Mr m.. Riley is up and down with eating..sometimes normal, sometimes more, sometimes less..but I have to ride it.. Otherwise I would be in a straight jacket! However he does know now that I won't give in and I feel rubbish doing it but it's for the best..

Yo m Bruv..gotz to eatz man..juzt do it! From yor cuz!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> That's the problem we see the minute difference in them and worry..come on. Mr m.. Riley is up and down with eating..sometimes normal, sometimes more, sometimes less..but I have to ride it.. Otherwise I would be in a straight jacket! However he does know now that I won't give in and I feel rubbish doing it but it's for the best..
> 
> Yo m Bruv..gotz to eatz man..juzt do it! From yor cuz!


If I hadn't given in I don't think he would have eaten a thing on Sunday,it was not a good day  
Unfortunately he has just vomited up his last lot of food,not unusual for him but a worry when he isn't eating as much as he should be


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> If I hadn't given in I don't think he would have eaten a thing on Sunday,it was not a good day
> Unfortunately he has just vomited up his last lot of food,not unusual for him but a worry when he isn't eating as much as he should be


I'm sorry to hear he is still not doing well..it does seem quite a long flare up..everything crossed it passes and he starts to eat normally again, without being sick..

Is there no other meds he can try?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm sorry to hear he is still not doing well..it does seem quite a long flare up..everything crossed it passes and he starts to eat normally again, without being sick..
> 
> Is there no other meds he can try?


There doesn't seem to be anything that will help as there is very little to treat.
He did so well for a couple of weeks eating wet food only and then he slowed down again and now isn't keen on eating much.He isn't totally refusing food just not eating enough


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> There doesn't seem to be anything that will help as there is very little to treat.
> He did so well for a couple of weeks eating wet food only and then he slowed down again and now isn't keen on eating much.He isn't totally refusing food just not eating enough


I used to bash up Riley's biscuits into a fine powder then sprinkle on top of his wet,,that worked for him..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I used to bash up Riley's biscuits into a fine powder then sprinkle on top of his wet,,that worked for him..


Been there done that,crushed thrive/treats/biscuits/brewers yeast bits of Tuna loin from [email protected] nothing is shifting him.He picks as he passes but nothing more than that


----------



## Cazzer

Poor Meeko he is a worry for you Buffie. Hope he stops being so stubborn and his vomiting settles down.

Hope mr Riley is ok?

Karlo meanwhile seems to be taking a bit more interest in honeys beef. Wonders will never cease  I've been feeding it to the others for ages and he's never shown any interest. Amazing what reducing his RC rations does!

I've discovered a nutriment stockist about a mile away, so will be trying that for the first time next week. Hopefully he will like that too!


----------



## buffie

Good to read that Karlo is doing well,I wish Meeko would give raw a try but he just doesn't see it as food


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone. Blue seems ok on grau. We have a couple of teaspoons a day with plain chicken and rc. She looks good coat wise and is back to her nutty self. Vets cheque came back for£105
we are staying where we are buy any wet food suggestions would be good as other threads are not specific to runny bots. Hope everyone behaving. Susan


----------



## buffie

Meeko was sick again last night and still being picky with food so off to the vet we went this morning,after discussing all the options we have agreed that a referral to the "DickVet" hospital outside Edinburgh is the best way forward,so we have an appointment at 11:30 on Tuesday next week 
I'm not looking forward to it one little bit,but this cant go on any longer.I think Scott his vet is looking forward to another opinion on this as he is getting frustrated that all tests/treatments are just not sorting this out at all.


----------



## Cazzer

Oh Buffie sorry to hear this. Let's hope Mr m behaves like a gentleman then as I'm sure it will be a stressful day for you both. Hope you will get some answers and a way forward for poor Meeko


----------



## Cazzer

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone. Blue seems ok on grau. We have a couple of teaspoons a day with plain chicken and rc. She looks good coat wise and is back to her nutty self. Vets cheque came back for£105
> we are staying where we are buy any wet food suggestions would be good as other threads are not specific to runny bots. Hope everyone behaving. Susan


Glad he is doing okay on the Grau is this the grain free or not? You could have a look at ropocat from the happy kitty company as it's a single source. It's probably the most easily accessible single source apart from the Grau. There is also feringa from zooplus & a couple of the catz ones as well. Nicola gets vet concept but although I found it good it was awfully expensive as at the time they didn't take credit cards. I had to do a bank transfer which my bank charged £25 for. I think they might take cads though now though


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Oh Buffie sorry to hear this. Let's hope Mr m behaves like a gentleman then as I'm sure it will be a stressful day for you both. Hope you will get some answers and a way forward for poor Meeko


Thanks Cazzer,not sure what will be happening as there was talk of them being able to use a different type of endiscope which would be able to go beyond his stomach.He is to go in starved so he may not be coming home again on Tuesday,but wont know until we have the consultation.I just wish it was all done now


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko was sick again last night and still being picky with food so off to the vet we went this morning,after discussing all the options we have agreed that a referral to the "DickVet" hospital outside Edinburgh is the best way forward,so we have an appointment at 11:30 on Tuesday next week
> I'm not looking forward to it one little bit,but this cant go on any longer.I think Scott his vet is looking forward to another opinion on this as he is getting frustrated that all tests/treatments are just not sorting this out at all.


Sorry just read this not been on much as I managed to knock myself out (long story). I think it's a good idea to get a second opinion, I know I was worried sick but really has been the best thing. Riley went in starved and they kept him over night he did not eat after so came home and ate loads! It is really scarey (you know how I was ) but I would do it again and much sooner if I had the time again.

I would pack him an overnight case with some toys, food, jumper of yours etc so he will still have the right smell, rather than horrible vet smell 

Hopefully with the specialised equipment and much more trained eyes they will come up with an idea to treat him.

Oh and also before I went I wrote done a history of illness and what medications have been tried and reactions..basically his whole medical history (got from the vets) and my own personal notes..as during the consultation I got quizzed loads!,

I also had to inform my insurance company that he was going to the referral vets, to let them know a claim was coming.

It really is a good thing tho..scarey but a good thing..


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Glad he is doing okay on the Grau is this the grain free or not? You could have a look at ropocat from the happy kitty company as it's a single source. It's probably the most easily accessible single source apart from the Grau. There is also feringa from zooplus & a couple of the catz ones as well. Nicola gets vet concept but although I found it good it was awfully expensive as at the time they didn't take credit cards. I had to do a bank transfer which my bank charged £25 for. I think they might take cads though now though


Yup they take bank transfer, credit cards and PayPal now


----------



## Satori

A bit off at a tangent this but... have you seen the the remarkable results on peanut allergy desensitisation trials that hit the news this week? I couldn't help thinking whether a similar protocol could be used for GI allergies.


----------



## Cazzer

Yes I heard it on radio and wondered same


----------



## nicolaa123

Satori said:


> A bit off at a tangent this but... have you seen the the remarkable results on peanut allergy desensitisation trials that hit the news this week? I couldn't help thinking whether a similar protocol could be used for GI allergies.


I did think this myself and it's a very interesting study, whether it could be used for ibd I'm not sure as "true" ibd can not be eased by food alone. For example my cat has a list of foods he can not eat yet his safe food (kangaroo) he still occasionally has symptoms with..if it was not for the meds he is on he would be a bag of bones, it's literately like his body just rejects food.

Although I wonder if a cat that can not "eat" a certain protein could be desensitived with a little by little approach


----------



## bluecordelia

Wearing my nurse head i guess the scope is either tail end or a gullet one. I don't do anatomy of cats very well 

In humans the low scope doesn't get far but anyone please tell us and future readers so we have a great knowledge base.

I truly hope scope goes well n gives an answer.

I will look at other zp foods
xxx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry just read this not been on much as I managed to knock myself out (long story). I think it's a good idea to get a second opinion, I know I was worried sick but really has been the best thing. Riley went in starved and they kept him over night he did not eat after so came home and ate loads! It is really scarey (you know how I was ) but I would do it again and much sooner if I had the time again.
> 
> I would pack him an overnight case with some toys, food, jumper of yours etc so he will still have the right smell, rather than horrible vet smell
> 
> Hopefully with the specialised equipment and much more trained eyes they will come up with an idea to treat him.
> 
> Oh and also before I went I wrote done a history of illness and what medications have been tried and reactions..basically his whole medical history (got from the vets) and my own personal notes..as during the consultation I got quizzed loads!,
> 
> I also had to inform my insurance company that he was going to the referral vets, to let them know a claim was coming.
> 
> It really is a good thing tho..scarey but a good thing..


Bl**dy hell Nicola what did you do .I had a go at that on Monday when Meeko's run shelf,made out of decking cracked be on the head/rattled what brain I have left and left a huge bruise.
My head is not thinking straight at the mo ,but if you can put up with a nervous slave,I will be asking you some questions nearer the time.


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Wearing my nurse head i guess the scope is either tail end or a gullet one. I don't do anatomy of cats very well
> 
> In humans the low scope doesn't get far but anyone please tell us and future readers so we have a great knowledge base.
> 
> I truly hope scope goes well n gives an answer.
> 
> I will look at other zp foods
> xxx


Meeko has already had an endoscopy and biopsy done which reached his stomach(gullet),but the referral vets can/should be able to go beyond the stomach and into the lower intestine(I think that's what the vet said)Will know more after Tuesday


----------



## bluecordelia

I am going to look up cat anatomy. I was surprised that vet went along her back checking organs. He checked gut/bowel underneath too.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Bl**dy hell Nicola what did you do .I had a go at that on Monday when Meeko's run shelf,made out of decking cracked be on the head/rattled what brain I have left and left a huge bruise.
> My head is not thinking straight at the mo ,but if you can put up with a nervous slave,I will be asking you some questions nearer the time.


Ask any questions you like 

My head came into contact with a van boot door, right on the corner..as the door was going up I crashed my head into it..oh the pain!


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Ask any questions you like
> 
> My head came into contact with a van boot door, right on the corner..as the door was going up I crashed my head into it..oh the pain!


Ouch ouch ouch that must have see you seeing stars and then some. Hope Riley was looking after you for a change and that you feel better now x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Ouch ouch ouch that must have see you seeing stars and then some. Hope Riley was looking after you for a change and that you feel better now x


I cried like a baby once I actually got over the shock! Had a splitting headache, which then became a migraine, two days off work resting (nhs direct) it's still very tender but I only have a dull ache now!

Riley of course looked after me


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ask any questions you like
> 
> My head came into contact with a van boot door, right on the corner..as the door was going up I crashed my head into it..oh the pain!


Oucheeeee that does sound very painful  Hope you are recovering okay.

I've contacted Pet Plan re referral and all is well with them,no need to pay the excess again so that's good.
Hope the pack the vet hospital are sending out arrives in time to see what they are asking me to do/take with me.Part of me isn't looking forward to it but he is still not eating much and was sick again last night ,so it seems even if he does eat he is bringing most of it back up  .Maybe now we will get to the botton of the cause. It is looking like more than IBD,either that or he has developed something else as well.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oucheeeee that does sound very painful  Hope you are recovering okay.
> 
> I've contacted Pet Plan re referral and all is well with them,no need to pay the excess again so that's good.
> Hope the pack the vet hospital are sending out arrives in time to see what they are asking me to do/take with me.Part of me isn't looking forward to it but he is still not eating much and was sick again last night ,so it seems even if he does eat he is bringing most of it back up  .Maybe now we will get to the botton of the cause. It is looking like more than IBD,either that or he has developed something else as well.


Fear of the unknown is the worse fear there is! I know as I've been there, you wonder all sorts will they find something really bad, what if they find nothing etc etc. however they are the experts so what ever is concluded they will then work with your vet together in finding the right medication or treatment. Ask them if chlorambucil or the other one ciclosporin would help as both are for ibd diarrhoea or vomiting.

On their website there might be a section on what you need to do to prepare I know on the one I went to they did...just looking now..hmm searching royal (dick)  just found the price list  http://www.ed.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.96531!/fileManager/HfSA Indicative Prices.pdf it says for you to take a claim form and you will just need to pay the excess..this should then be refunded to you by the hospital 

Some basic info here Overview | Referred patients |

They have a cat only ward that's good and you can take a toy in with him.

I took all my own notes and a list of questions in a book and don't forget to write the answers  when you collect him ask for a print out of the notes on him also as that's good to keep. You can probably tell Riley has his own file


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Fear of the unknown is the worse fear there is! I know as I've been there, you wonder all sorts will they find something really bad, what if they find nothing etc etc. however they are the experts so what ever is concluded they will then work with your vet together in finding the right medication or treatment. Ask them if chlorambucil or the other one ciclosporin would help as both are for ibd diarrhoea or vomiting.
> 
> On their website there might be a section on what you need to do to prepare I know on the one I went to they did...just looking now..hmm searching royal (dick)  just found the price list  http://www.ed.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.96531!/fileManager/HfSA Indicative Prices.pdf it says for you to take a claim form and you will just need to pay the excess..this should then be refunded to you by the hospital
> 
> Some basic info here Overview | Referred patients |
> 
> They have a cat only ward that's good and you can take a toy in with him.
> 
> I took all my own notes and a list of questions in a book and don't forget to write the answers  when you collect him ask for a print out of the notes on him also as that's good to keep. You can probably tell Riley has his own file


Thanks for the links Nicola,I have had them book marked for a while as I knew this day would come sooner or later.
As for the excess Pet Plan said to tell them this was an on going,excess already paid ,condition,but if they need it I'll pay it and just claim it back again.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks for the links Nicola,I have had them book marked for a while as I knew this day would come sooner or later.
> As for the excess Pet Plan said to tell them this was an on going,excess already paid ,condition,but if they need it I'll pay it and just claim it back again.


Good to hear on the insurance front 

I know nothing that I can say will ease your nerves but it really is a good thing to find out what's going on..I'm here whenever you need me


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good to hear on the insurance front
> 
> I know nothing that I can say will ease your nerves but it really is a good thing to find out what's going on*..I'm here whenever you need me *


You may live to regret that comment  I'm working myself up into a right panic.
It doesn't help when he keeps ignoring all /every type of food I put down.
He has just scoffed a fair pile of Hills lamb dry ,I know its crap food,but even crap food is better than no food,trouble is he may hurl it back again just like he has done for the last 3 nights,so I cant even take any pleasure in the fact that he has eaten until tomorrow morning.If it is still in the cat then we have achieved something


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You may live to regret that comment  I'm working myself up into a right panic.
> It doesn't help when he keeps ignoring all /every type of food I put down.
> He has just scoffed a fair pile of Hills lamb dry ,I know its crap food,but even crap food is better than no food,trouble is he may hurl it back again just like he has done for the last 3 nights,so I cant even take any pleasure in the fact that he has eaten until tomorrow morning.If it is still in the cat then we have achieved something


no matter what you have my number and im here for you anytime!!

I know its scarey but it is best thing for him to go..sending you big hug xx and riles sends manly hug to his wingman


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> no matter what you have my number and im here for you anytime!!
> 
> I know its scarey but it is best thing for him to go..sending you big hug xx and riles sends manly hug to his wingman


Thank you ,I'm sure you will appreciate just how much it means that there is someone willing to listen to your ramblings  xx


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thank you ,I'm sure you will appreciate just how much it means that there is someone willing to listen to your ramblings  xx


How are you both doing today??


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> How are you both doing today??


Getting a bit more used to the thought now.He has eaten okay since yesterday and more to the point it is still inside the cat 
He seems fine in himself if you didn't know he wasn't right you would never guess, all very odd ut:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Getting a bit more used to the thought now.He has eaten okay since yesterday and more to the point it is still inside the cat
> He seems fine in himself if you didn't know he wasn't right you would never guess, all very odd ut:


Typical..getting better before going to the hospital..same as Riley did 

These cats eh..will send us grey


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Typical..getting better before going to the hospital..same as Riley did
> 
> *These cats eh..will send us grey *


Not a chance my "cover all grey" product is cat proof


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Not a chance my "cover all grey" product is cat proof


Ahhhhh..but how is your straight jacket


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ahhhhh..but how is your straight jacket


Gnawed to b*ggery by my fangs :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Gnawed to b*ggery by my fangs :lol: :lol:


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Hi all, I love it that this thread exists. 

Orange Cat (also known as Donjes) has been suffering from IBD for about a year now. He's on Zantac and metronidazole, and eats Nature's Menu currently. He was on Applaws until recently but it seemed to be contributing to his diarrhoea.

Here he is:


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

And during one of his visits to hospital:


----------



## Cazzer

buffie said:


> Gnawed to b*ggery by my fangs :lol: :lol:


Glad you've still got a sense of humour Buffie! Thinking of you both & hoping visit goes well. Probably won't be on forum later as got a lady coming from Bristol university to see Keshet & Kgosi


----------



## Cazzer

Shoshannah said:


> Hi all, I love it that this thread exists.
> 
> Orange Cat (also known as Donjes) has been suffering from IBD for about a year now. He's on Zantac and metronidazole, and eats Nature's Menu currently. He was on Applaws until recently but it seemed to be contributing to his diarrhoea.
> 
> Here he is:


Love Orange cat. He's got the soul full eyes mastered hadn't he! Sorry to hear about his IBD it's awful to see them not well.


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Hi all, I love it that this thread exists.
> 
> Orange Cat (also known as Donjes) has been suffering from IBD for about a year now. He's on Zantac and metronidazole, and eats Nature's Menu currently. He was on Applaws until recently but it seemed to be contributing to his diarrhoea.
> 
> Here he is:


Orange cat is a very handsome man! Sorry to hear about his ibd  how awful for him to have both ends symptoms  have you tried a spoonful of pumpkin in his food to add fibre?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> Orange cat is a very handsome man! Sorry to hear about his ibd  how awful for him to have both ends symptoms  have you tried a spoonful of pumpkin in his food to add fibre?


He was on chicken and pumpkin Applaws for a while, but I haven't tried adding pumpkin to his food now.

Here's a stupid question - where do you get the pumpkin from? I've only bought it at Hallowe'en and I make soup from it then but have never looked for it at other times of the year.


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> He was on chicken and pumpkin Applaws for a while, but I haven't tried adding pumpkin to his food now.
> 
> Here's a stupid question - where do you get the pumpkin from? I've only bought it at Hallowe'en and I make soup from it then but have never looked for it at other times of the year.


You can buy Libby's tinned pumpkin from waitrose..do you know what foods are triggering the ibd? Mine is currently on kangaroo which he loves and eats with much less episodes of inappetence. He still does react to the food but to be fair it's less that when on other foods. But mine is so blinking sensitive we have ruled out most proteins and "extras" even his liver meds cause him diarrhoea.

On another note my poo trials continued..my new findings are as long as he "goes" the same time each day he is less inclined to have an issue back end wise. This was trailed over past couple of weeks. When I've changed my routine or been off and he has "gone" earlier I'm back to wiping his bum..

But when he had a period of going the same time every day all good. So I've hot to add that into the mix also!! His bum was quote sore yesterday and the prolapse was poking out a bit. I have been adding extra water to his food as he is constantly by the radiator..so may stop that and see..


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> You can buy Libby's tinned pumpkin from waitrose..do you know what foods are triggering the ibd? Mine is currently on kangaroo which he loves and eats with much less episodes of inappetence. He still does react to the food but to be fair it's less that when on other foods. But mine is so blinking sensitive we have ruled out most proteins and "extras" even his liver meds cause him diarrhoea.
> 
> On another note my poo trials continued..my new findings are as long as he "goes" the same time each day he is less inclined to have an issue back end wise. This was trailed over past couple of weeks. When I've changed my routine or been off and he has "gone" earlier I'm back to wiping his bum..
> 
> But when he had a period of going the same time every day all good. So I've hot to add that into the mix also!! His bum was quote sore yesterday and the prolapse was poking out a bit. I have been adding extra water to his food as he is constantly by the radiator..so may stop that and see..


Cool, I will look out for the tinned pumpkin. :thumbup1:

Food's a minefield, isn't it? I haven't done any formal food trials with Orange Cat. As I said, he seems to have firmed up well on Nature's Menu and there is no more blood. I'm not inclined to 'rock the boat' as it were, but I will be trying the pumpkin if I can get it. 

It sounds like your lad is suffering rather more than Orange at the moment.  Hugs to him xxx


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Cool, I will look out for the tinned pumpkin. :thumbup1:
> 
> Food's a minefield, isn't it? I haven't done any formal food trials with Orange Cat. As I said, he seems to have firmed up well on Nature's Menu and there is no more blood. I'm not inclined to 'rock the boat' as it were, but I will be trying the pumpkin if I can get it.
> 
> It sounds like your lad is suffering rather more than Orange at the moment.  Hugs to him xxx


Thank you. They do say raw food really helps with issues of the stomach..Riley does not see raw as food unfortunately..mind he did try a bit of turkey and then had diarrhoea. Riley has refractory ibd so it's a day by day condition..but we manage, he is on a once a week chlorambucil tablet which has been the med to save him..I'm toying with adding ciclosporin but may wait until he has another flare up..we have "incidents" but not a flare up so may wait until then before adding that.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> Thank you. They do say raw food really helps with issues of the stomach..Riley does not see raw as food unfortunately..mind he did try a bit of turkey and then had diarrhoea. Riley has refractory ibd so it's a day by day condition..but we manage, he is on a once a week chlorambucil tablet which has been the med to save him..I'm toying with adding ciclosporin but may wait until he has another flare up..we have "incidents" but not a flare up so may wait until then before adding that.


Has he had Vit B12 injections?


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Has he had Vit B12 injections?


Yes..had a very grumpy cat and the b12 made no difference at all..it was a once per week for four/five weeks from memory. Did not affect his appetite or output!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> Yes..had a very grumpy cat and the b12 made no difference at all..it was a once per week for four/five weeks from memory. Did not affect his appetite or output!


Fair enough, always worth a try!

Sorry for not reading back aaallll of these pages; was Riley's IBD diagnosed on biopsies?


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Fair enough, always worth a try!
> 
> Sorry for not reading back aaallll of these pages; was Riley's IBD diagnosed on biopsies?


There are a lot of pages  it's been a long journey!!

Riley was diagnosed by the referral vets, he had endeoscopy and scans done..I said no to the full thickness biopsies as with his temperament it would have been too much for him..one night at Davies and two days he did not eat and was grumpy with them so I opted out as would have been too risky. However they gathered enough information to diagnose.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> There are a lot of pages  it's been a long journey!!
> 
> Riley was diagnosed by the referral vets, he had endeoscopy and scans done..I said no to the full thickness biopsies as with his temperament it would have been too much for him..one night at Davies and two days he did not eat and was grumpy with them so I opted out as would have been too risky. However they gathered enough information to diagnose.


Super, at least you got it all done with minimal stress to Riley.

I haven't got any histological diagnosis on Orange Cat either. It's all based on his clinical signs and blood results.

I will read back through all of these at some point. I'm always interested in what new ideas there are for IBD.


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Super, at least you got it all done with minimal stress to Riley.
> 
> I haven't got any histological diagnosis on Orange Cat either. It's all based on his clinical signs and blood results.
> 
> I will read back through all of these at some point. I'm always interested in what new ideas there are for IBD.


I have a brilliant vet (finally) who rather than just suggest I feed the "sensitivity" diets works with me..looks up my research and works with me in keeping him flare up free..I also have my vet at Davies who again is amazing and so knowledgable and works with me and my vet. It was my vet who suggested a novel wet grain free food and not the hills I/d. She really is amazing and I owe her so much!

Hopefully the more we can share about what works we will all gain some help for our cats as ibd really is a cruel illness..

I hope orange cat continues to do well on his new food


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> I have a brilliant vet (finally) who rather than just suggest I feed the "sensitivity" diets works with me..looks up my research and works with me in keeping him flare up free..I also have my vet at Davies who again is amazing and so knowledgable and works with me and my vet. It was my vet who suggested a novel wet grain free food and not the hills I/d. She really is amazing and I owe her so much!
> 
> Hopefully the more we can share about what works we will all gain some help for our cats as ibd really is a cruel illness..
> 
> I hope orange cat continues to do well on his new food


I like that some other vets are recommending grain-free foods. 

Thank you, I hope Riley settles too.


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> I like that some other vets are recommending grain-free foods.
> 
> Thank you, I hope Riley settles too.


She is really good..she even looked into a vaccine against diarrhoea. It was a new study so she wasn't that keen to try it as no prior clinical studies done..


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> She is really good..she even looked into a vaccine against diarrhoea. It was a new study so she wasn't that keen to try it as no prior clinical studies done..


Yeah that's fair enough, I know these things have to be tested but nobody wants it to be on their kitty. :eek6:

Fingers crossed in the future it'll be considered a 'bog-standard' treatment.


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## bluecordelia

Hi just catching up. Orange cat you can get pumpkin or squash from morrisons. I was there on boxing day. Steam it down n freeze it when cold. I have gone for grau grain free food as blue had antibiotics same as orange but seems ok. Her stool sample was pos clostridium perfingans. I had tried the raw pet food but am sure it tipped her. hope all other cats are ok.

I am looking at a rescue cat on Saturday...ie hoping i pass so he can come home. Will let you know. X


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## buffie

Well yesterday Meeko had his referral appointment at the Veterinary College and we are now more confused than before.I have posted the findings as it is easier than me writing it out...



The possible cystitis is a shock both to me and the vet who tested it, sample sent for bacterial testing.He has a low heart rate (140) which may be responsible for decreased gut mobility . As you can imagine I have more questions than answers so have arranged to speak with my own vet once the findings have been sent to him from the specialist.It would seem unclear whether he has IBD or not


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Well yesterday Meeko had his referral appointment at the Veterinary College and we are now more confused than before.I have posted the findings as it is easier than me writing it out...
> 
> 
> 
> The possible cystitis is a shock both to me and the vet who tested it, sample sent for bacterial testing.He has a low heart rate (140) which may be responsible for decreased gut mobility . As you can imagine I have more questions than answers so have arranged to speak with my own vet once the findings have been sent to him from the specialist.It would seem unclear whether he has IBD or not


Good idea!! I think once all the results are in it should be a bit clearer. I imagine they would want to clear up what they have found first to see if it is that then if not further tests?


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good idea!! I think once all the results are in it should be a bit clearer. I imagine they would want to clear up what they have found first to see if it is that then if not further tests?


That looks like the route Jenny the vet at the "College" is heading down so will see what my own vet has to say.I just hope he has all the results soon as "not knowing" isn't helping my stress levels,might need to try some of Meeko's Calmex :arf:


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## Forester

Hello Folks. I hope that you won't mind me posting in here. My little chap Dylan , 16 mths DSH , ex stray, has suspected food sensitivity. Not IBD ( I hope, everything crossed) but I figured that this thread is the best place to find the experts on food sensitivities. 

Prior to this post I have read every single post on this thread as I wanted to be " up to speed " with what's been happening with everyone's kitties before appearing on here. I'm exhausted from reading but that's nothing to how you must all feel from the trials and tribulations of having IBD kitties.

To get to my reason for posting- Dylan has been on Royal Canin Sensitivity Control since 9th Jan following a visit to the vets due to vomiting 3 times in 36 hrs. Prior to the 9th Jan he had been vomiting approximately every 5 or 6 days since we adopted him last March. We had previously put the vomiting down to him eating too much too quickly. He has appeared to be absolutely ravenous ever since we have had him and always bolts his food. All seemed to be going well , 3 and a half weeks without vomiting and the frequency of his litter tray offerings had reduced to once a day. He had previously been pooping a couple of times a day but because he had always done it we assumed that it was just the way he is. Then, last Sunday he vomited again as well as pooping in the tray twice. Today I have come home to a very , very small amount of vomit in the bedroom. On the plus side , the sensitivity control has drastically reduced the amount of gas he passes.

Does it sound to you as though he is getting worse again or is it just that his system is taking time to settle?. Does it sound likely that he is in fact sensitive to chicken.? I had been planning to put him on to Ropocat venison at the end of February and then gradually introduce other proteins but am starting to wonder whether I should do that sooner rather than later. Am I being too impatient? 

I just want to get my little chap better as soon as possible but am not sure what to do.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Hello Folks. I hope that you won't mind me posting in here. My little chap Dylan , 16 mths DSH , ex stray, has suspected food sensitivity. Not IBD ( I hope, everything crossed) but I figured that this thread is the best place to find the experts on food sensitivities.
> 
> Prior to this post I have read every single post on this thread as I wanted to be " up to speed " with what's been happening with everyone's kitties before appearing on here. I'm exhausted from reading but that's nothing to how you must all feel from the trials and tribulations of having IBD kitties.
> 
> To get to my reason for posting- Dylan has been on Royal Canin Sensitivity Control since 9th Jan following a visit to the vets due to vomiting 3 times in 36 hrs. Prior to the 9th Jan he had been vomiting approximately every 5 or 6 days since we adopted him last March. We had previously put the vomiting down to him eating too much too quickly. He has appeared to be absolutely ravenous ever since we have had him and always bolts his food. All seemed to be going well , 3 and a half weeks without vomiting and the frequency of his litter tray offerings had reduced to once a day. He had previously been pooping a couple of times a day but because he had always done it we assumed that it was just the way he is. Then, last Sunday he vomited again as well as pooping in the tray twice. Today I have come home to a very , very small amount of vomit in the bedroom. On the plus side , the sensitivity control has drastically reduced the amount of gas he passes.
> 
> Does it sound to you as though he is getting worse again or is it just that his system is taking time to settle?. Does it sound likely that he is in fact sensitive to chicken.? I had been planning to put him on to Ropocat venison at the end of February and then gradually introduce other proteins but am starting to wonder whether I should do that sooner rather than later. Am I being too impatient?
> 
> I just want to get my little chap better as soon as possible but am not sure what to do.


Firstly you deserve a medal for reading the whole thread!! 

It could well be an intolerance to chicken or could be grains or any other ingredient. What was he eating before?

The theory behind a food elimination trial is to choose a food (check the add ons as well) he has never ever eaten before, this maybe more difficult as you don't know his full history so you might want to consider something like horse (sorry buffie  ) he eats that for 4-6 weeks noting any changes from vomiting to consistency in poo, volume of poo, colour etc. As the cat has never eaten the food before he should not react to it (that's the theory bit)

Then you can add in other proteins tiny bit my tiny bit again noting any changes etc etc if you get a reaction then he is likely intolerant to the protein or add on. This will probably explain it better than I have 

Feline Food Allergy Elimination Diet Procedures

I would talk to your vet about trying the elimination diet. Also taking of vets (sorry if you have said before) did vet test bloods and poo?


----------



## Forester

Thanks , Nicola. The vet hasn't tested blood and poo. She told me to try the RCSC first and that if the vomiting stopped for a week then I would know that food was the cause of the vomiting. I was told that if the problem was a food sensitivity then his vomiting would stop almost immediately. 
I was only to return if the vomiting didn't stop with the RCSC when she said that she would look at bloods/ x rays ( or it could have been ultrasound)

I advised her that I had been planning to try him on an elimination diet using venison as a novel protein but she told me to wait so that we could see whether the RCSC worked. I visited the vets a couple of weeks later to talk to a vet about elimination diets and saw a young , newly qualified vet who told me to stick with the RCSC for at least 6 to 8 weeks . 

I could never feed horse. I have a very large one of my own who was saved from the meat man. I could never look her in the eye. 

I chose venison as I'm fairly confident that Dylan won't have eaten this before. He was 5 - 6 months old when he came to me . He was thin, very wormy and had been rescued from the streets. I think that he is unlikely to have had the luxury of venison in his previous life.

I suppose I feel at a bit of a loss as to what to do as the vet seemed to be taking the line that if the RCSC stopped Dylan's vomiting then that was problem solved. She suggested that I keep him on it permanently. 

When Dylan was sick on Sunday I confess , says this very quietly, that I searched through the " debris" to see whether I could find a reason for the vomit. :arf:There was a small amount of hair so I did initially think that the hair could have been the cause. Today's small pile of vomit unfortunately I cannot make an excuse for. 

Since on the RCSC Dylan's poo and gas have normalized and we did have 3 and 1/2 weeks without vomiting. Should I " write off" the RCSC experience and get him straight on to the elimination diet using venison.?. He is very much better than he was prior to going on the RCSC but he's not completely right.


----------



## nicolaa123

It's difficult for me to say what you should do as you know Dylan best..

From my own experience I tried the sensitivity diets tried a few still had symptoms so kept going back to the vets, (unfortunately not a lot of vets know much about diet). I did feel like I was being fobbed off and at the time I only had the vets experience, until I joined this forum and learnt about food and then I found my "now" vet that things moved forward and she fully supported a food elimination diet for him, plus had him tested for bloods/poo etc.

You are the only one that knows Dylan best and if he isn't "right" to you then I would go back and talk to them again about trying either the elimination diet or having more tests. Plus they did say if still vomiting go back..how is his weight and loss? Any loss of condition? Lethargy? 

The elimination food did work for Riley as in all symptoms did stop..unfortunately we have not found any other food he can eat as yet..I am waiting until his next bloods in April then I am going to try food again..as I need more than one food he can eat :cryin:

Oh sorry for the horse thing


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It's difficult for me to say what you should do as you know Dylan best..
> 
> From my own experience I tried the sensitivity diets tried a few still had symptoms so kept going back to the vets, (unfortunately not a lot of vets know much about diet). I did feel like I was being fobbed off and at the time I only had the vets experience, until I joined this forum and learnt about food and then I found my "now" vet that things moved forward and she fully supported a food elimination diet for him, plus had him tested for bloods/poo etc.
> 
> You are the only one that knows Dylan best and if he isn't "right" to you then I would go back and talk to them again about trying either the elimination diet or having more tests. Plus they did say if still vomiting go back..how is his weight and loss? Any loss of condition? Lethargy?
> 
> The elimination food did work for Riley as in all symptoms did stop..unfortunately we have not found any other food he can eat as yet..I am waiting until his next bloods in April then I am going to try food again..as I need more than one food he can eat :cryin:
> 
> Oh sorry for the horse thing


Don't worry about the horse thing. I can understand how others could feed it, just couldn't do it myself.

I suppose that I'm asking for others' experiences as my vet wasn't really all that helpful on the subject of sensitivities and elimination diets. She just implied that if he hadn't vomited in a week on the sensitivity control then it was bound to be a food issue. The improvement in his vomiting, poo and gas for 3 1/2 weeks was massive, its just the last few days we seem to have some deterioration. She didn't seem to think it necessary for him to go back unless the sensitivity control didn't bring about any improvement. We have had an improvement just not a complete resolution.

His weight/ activity/ general demeanour are all good although his appetite is insatiable. If I hadn't seen the vomit then I would never have thought that he had any problem. The only deterioration in condition in any way seems to be since he started the sensitivity control. His coat is no longer as soft and silky as it was on his previous diet of Omm Nom Nom, Granatapet and Macs.

I've got another 3 -4 weeks supply of sensitivity control so I will continue with that for now in the hope that he's just had a bit of a "blip". If he vomits again in the next week then I'll have to consider whether to change to the venison earlier than planned.

I'm so sorry that you've had such terrible problems trying to find foods which don't upset Riley. I remember being reduced to tears for you when reading this thread from around July last year. It was heart breaking to follow the thread. Hopefully Riley is now much stronger and his body more able to cope with introductions to his diet.


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## buffie

Hi Forester,Meeko has vomiting issues similar to Dylan (as you will probably have read).The problem with using most if not all of these "sensitive foods" is that they contain fillers/cereal/rice etc and it is possible that Dylan has a grain/cereal allergy and not necessarily a meat allergy.
I would have thought that you would have a better chance of success starting with a single protein food such as Nicola suggested although you could try the kangaroo rather than (horse) I'm with you on that one .I had to give up with Meeko as he is such a fussy sod he would rather starve than eat something he _ thinks_ he doesn't like


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Don't worry about the horse thing. I can understand how others could feed it, just couldn't do it myself.
> 
> I suppose that I'm asking for others' experiences as my vet wasn't really all that helpful on the subject of sensitivities and elimination diets. She just implied that if he hadn't vomited in a week on the sensitivity control then it was bound to be a food issue. The improvement in his vomiting, poo and gas for 3 1/2 weeks was massive, its just the last few days we seem to have some deterioration. She didn't seem to think it necessary for him to go back unless the sensitivity control didn't bring about any improvement. We have had an improvement just not a complete resolution.
> 
> His weight/ activity/ general demeanour are all good although his appetite is insatiable. If I hadn't seen the vomit then I would never have thought that he had any problem. The only deterioration in condition in any way seems to be since he started the sensitivity control. His coat is no longer as soft and silky as it was on his previous diet of Omm Nom Nom, Granatapet and Macs.
> 
> I've got another 3 -4 weeks supply of sensitivity control so I will continue with that for now in the hope that he's just had a bit of a "blip". If he vomits again in the next week then I'll have to consider whether to change to the venison earlier than planned.
> 
> I'm so sorry that you've had such terrible problems trying to find foods which don't upset Riley. I remember being reduced to tears for you when reading this thread from around July last year. It was heart breaking to follow the thread. Hopefully Riley is now much stronger and his body more able to cope with introductions to his diet.


That sounds like a plan..it is hard to know what to do it really is. If was me then I would probably try the venison sooner as in the rc there are so many ingredients in the food that could be causing the problems..

Ah yes July..was an awful time, I don't mind admitting that I was starting to think I would have to make that "decision" which was breaking my heart but his condition was awful, loosing weight and not Riley..but we got through it..

He at the moment is doing ok (ok is good) I do have a niggle in the back of my mind about him..but it maybe just me or could be something..hard to tell but I am thinking to bring his bloods forward but I will see how it goes for now as like I said he is ok and ok is good 

There is nothing wrong with you trying the venison even just a small half teaspoon at a time to even see if he likes it.. Also have you tried raising his bowl that can help with the eating and vomiting. Small amount of pumpkin added to the food can help with bulking up the poo as adding fibre.

I think if he vomits again take him back and if you get no joy with the vet ask to see another..that's what I did


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## Forester

Thanks buffie/Nicola.

buffie,
Dylan's symptoms do seem to closely resemble those of the Magnificent Meeko. He really is an incredibly handsome boy.:001_wub: I feel for what you and he have been through.

Dylan *was * on a grain free diet before visiting the vets but was vomiting, usually breakfast, every 5 or 6 days on that.The recent dramatic flare up appeared to have been caused by him eating some of OH's porridge  The problem with Dylan is that he will eat *any food* that he can get hold of. He will hover, waiting to pounce on any food left unattended, be it meat, bread, cabbage. I daren't even leave an unwashed plate in the sink. OH has not been quite so careful in the past :mad2:

I'm trying to persuade myself that the small amount of hair vomited on Sunday will have irritated Dylan's insides so might also have led to the small amount of vomiting yesterday.

Nicola
I'm sooo pleased that Riley is " doing o.k. Doing o k is so much better that how things have been in the past. From what I've absorbed from reading this thread " back to back" his recent history does sound quite positive to an outsider. The weight gain must be a good sign :thumbsup:

I have 1 can of venison so will try that just before ordering 10kg of it. I currently have £ 120 worth cat food, including 4 weeks worth Sensitivity Control so I don't want to get too much in without knowing that he's o k with it.

If I feel that its necessary to go back to the vets I will do. I'll probably ask for the same vet who suggested the SC initially as she is one of the senior partners although not one I've seen before. I suspect that she didn't say too much about elimination diets as she knew that I already had a plan for one.


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## nicolaa123

It is really hard as any change and you can go back ten steps  or you can go forward!!

I hope it was just a one off for Dylan..it will be nice to read that he is back on wet food with no problems


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## buffie

Forester said:


> Thanks buffie/Nicola.
> 
> buffie,
> Dylan's symptoms do seem to closely resemble those of the Magnificent Meeko. He really is an incredibly handsome boy.:001_wub: I feel for what you and he have been through.
> 
> Dylan *was * on a grain free diet before visiting the vets but was vomiting, usually breakfast, every 5 or 6 days on that.The recent dramatic flare up appeared to have been caused by him eating some of OH's porridge  The problem with Dylan is that he will eat *any food* that he can get hold of. He will hover, waiting to pounce on any food left unattended, be it meat, bread, cabbage. I daren't even leave an unwashed plate in the sink. OH has not been quite so careful in the past :mad2:
> 
> I'm trying to persuade myself that the small amount of hair vomited on Sunday will have irritated Dylan's insides so might also have led to the small amount of vomiting yesterday.


The vomiting with Meeko,not sure if Dylan is the same,was just once and then normal service would resume for a few days and then vomit again ect.
The odd thing that was noticed ,twice, was that after 12 hours starvation for xrays he still had a small amount of food in his stomach 
When he was at the referral vet on Tuesday they checked his heart rate and it was low (140) should be around 200.that could point to a decreased gut mobility which could explain the intermittent vomiting as the digestive tract isn't flowing properly ,might be something to ask your vet to check.


----------



## Forester

Nicola , I will definitely keep you updated on how things are going with Dylan and his elimination diet. I'm going to order the venison next week so long as he eats some from the can that I already have.

I do feel really bad because I had advice from several very helpful PF members several months ago, promised to keep them updated as I was going to do an elimination diet then, and then forgot to let them know that we'd changed our plans. I do have severe memory problems as a result of medication but I definitely won't forget to update this time.

Buffie, thanks for mentioning the heart rate issue and possible decreased gut mobility. Dylan's symptoms do seem to be incredibly similar to Meeko's. He will vomit, then be completely back to normal from 10 seconds later until he vomits again in another 6 or 7 days. He is totally unfazed by the vomiting, in fact will look up at me as if to say " that's gone, can I have some more"?. Its interesting that when we visited the vet she commented on how hard his next lot of poo felt inside him. His poo is always very hard.

I do hope that you are now close to establishing exactly what is causing Meeko's vomiting. Having read your other thread I confess to having been slightly confused ( brain not in gear )as to whether they were saying that Meeko had a bladder issue *as well as *IBD. I hope that the Handsome Boy has recovered from his experience and is not feeling too cold around his " baldy bits"

I will definitely mention the information you have provided about Meeko's referral if I take Dylan back to the vets. Thank you again. Reduced gut mobility really does seem to make sense.


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## bluecordelia

Buffie n Nicola are the boffins on this thread and should be knighted for all their help. I cant comment on ur puss as blue just had the grotty bot but after reading around i feels vets go for a safe option of dry rv. I think its ok but would try wet. I don't think dry id good long term as its toooo dry x


> PHP:


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Nicola , I will definitely keep you updated on how things are going with Dylan and his elimination diet. I'm going to order the venison next week so long as he eats some from the can that I already have.
> 
> I do feel really bad because I had advice from several very helpful PF members several months ago, promised to keep them updated as I was going to do an elimination diet then, and then forgot to let them know that we'd changed our plans. I do have severe memory problems as a result of medication but I definitely won't forget to update this time.
> 
> Buffie, thanks for mentioning the heart rate issue and possible decreased gut mobility. Dylan's symptoms do seem to be incredibly similar to Meeko's. He will vomit, then be completely back to normal from 10 seconds later until he vomits again in another 6 or 7 days. He is totally unfazed by the vomiting, in fact will look up at me as if to say " that's gone, can I have some more"?. Its interesting that when we visited the vet she commented on how hard his next lot of poo felt inside him. His poo is always very hard.
> 
> I do hope that you are now close to establishing exactly what is causing Meeko's vomiting. *Having read your other thread I confess to having been slightly confused ( brain not in gear )as to whether they were saying that Meeko had a bladder issue as well as IBD*. I hope that the Handsome Boy has recovered from his experience and is not feeling too cold around his " baldy bits"
> 
> I will definitely mention the information you have provided about Meeko's referral if I take Dylan back to the vets. Thank you again. Reduced gut mobility really does seem to make sense.


You're confused ,I'm gobsmacked .It would seem that poor Meeko has a UTI or something which is causing him to have blood/protein in his urine.There has been no obvious sign of this so it came as a shock when they tested his urine sample.
There may be a connection but unlikely ,it looks like he has a urine/bladder problem as well as a gut problem,whether that is IBD or not is now also unclear


----------



## buffie

Urine results back from lab no bacteria in sample so likely cause is stress related cystitis , but apart from a blip on Saturday  his urination pattern hasn't changed at all.
I've to collect a sample and drop it in to my own vet to be tested to see if there is still blood there.Spoke at length this afternoon with my own vet and he says as nothing has been seen on either xrays/scan or in blood results he doubts that there is anything being missed.
So decision ,at the moment is to give Meeko a rest from vets,monitor him and if he seems to be coping okay will see him again in a couple of months or so.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Urine results back from lab no bacteria in sample so likely cause is stress related cystitis , but apart from a blip on Saturday  his urination pattern hasn't changed at all.
> I've to collect a sample and drop it in to my own vet to be tested to see if there is still blood there.Spoke at length this afternoon with my own vet and he says as nothing has been seen on either xrays/scan or in blood results he doubts that there is anything being missed.
> So decision ,at the moment is to give Meeko a rest from vets,monitor him and if he seems to be coping okay will see him again in a couple of months or so.


So are they saying now it's not ibd?


----------



## nicolaa123

I've been looking on the net about feline interstitial cystitis (I presume that's what they are suspecting) it is linked with ibd on a few sites..

Maybe this causes a flare up of his ibd  in which case if that is controlled in theory no more ibd symptoms which would be fantastic!


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> I've been looking on the net about feline interstitial cystitis (I presume that's what they are suspecting) it is linked with ibd on a few sites..
> 
> Maybe this causes a flare up of his ibd  in which case if that is controlled in theory no more ibd symptoms which would be fantastic!


That's interesting Nicola as the cwtchy one has had cystitis before now.

Buffie I'm sure his magnificence will be overjoyed at no vets for a while. Hope he does ok x


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## Forester

Perhaps the cystitis causes stress which exacerbates the ibd. 

Fingers and paws crossed for Meeko here. Hoping that he won't need to see the vets again for a long , long, time.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> That's interesting Nicola as the cwtchy one has had cystitis before now.
> 
> Buffie I'm sure his magnificence will be overjoyed at no vets for a while. Hope he does ok x


That's interesting maybe they are linked 

It would make sense, in that it's affecting him in this way rather than the more common staining to go for a wee..the internal organs are a complicated thing!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> So are they saying now it's not ibd?


To be honest I don't know what they are saying.The impression I got from speaking to Jenny the vet from the "Dick Vet" they seemed to be focused more on the urine sample  rather than looking for IBD 
I honestly think it was a complete waste of time,as all they did was repeat the same tests already done and come up with the same answers.
Scott did say the next step would probably be endoscopy,but to be honest I think we both thought that would have been where they started.They did find a small amount of food again on the scan so there does seem to be something going on there.
The other thing they said was that they thought possibly the cystitis (if it is that) was causing pain which in turn was causing him to feel sick and not want to eat.There is one flaw in that theory though ,when he last had a urine sample done there was no blood/protein or anything evident  and that was in the middle of a "flare up"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> To be honest I don't know what they are saying.The impression I got from speaking to Jenny the vet from the "Dick Vet" they seemed to be focused more on the urine sample  rather than looking for IBD
> I honestly think it was a complete waste of time,as all they did was repeat the same tests already done and come up with the same answers.
> Scott did say the next step would probably be endoscopy,but to be honest I think we both thought that would have been where they started.They did find a small amount of food again on the scan so there does seem to be something going on there.
> The other thing they said was that they thought possibly the cystitis (if it is that) was causing pain which in turn was causing him to feel sick and not want to eat.There is one flaw in that theory though ,when he last had a urine sample done there was no blood/protein or anything evident  and that was in the middle of a "flare up"


Oh they did not do the endescopy..that surprises me..it does have legs in from what I've read that it could be a link to the ibd..however I'm not sure it's just this alone. As said would love for you both to have not have the diagnosis of ibd not that fic would be much better..but I'm not so sure..


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## nicolaa123

Couple of links I found  still been reading into the link it may have

Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease

The part about the bacteria is interesting as some forms of ibd is bacteria linked


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh they did not do the endescopy..that surprises me..*it does have legs in from what I've read *that it could be a link to the ibd..however I'm not sure it's just this alone. As said would love for you both to have not have the diagnosis of ibd not that fic would be much better..but I'm not so sure..


Sorry Nicola but the bit in bold  
I was really surprised that they didn't mention doing the endoscopy as that's what I thought they were going to do.
Although Jenny Sinclair was doing the consult she wasn't the one going to be doing the investigations so I was just asked to give permission to do the tests they felt necessary(non-invasive)
As I've put in the other thread,idiopathic lower urinary tract disease(stress cystitis) is what they think is the cause of the blood in his urine , and are suggesting that it is all tied in with the other symptoms.Hope I can get Meeko to "co-operate" with a urine sample soon so that we can see if there is any blood now.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Sorry Nicola but the bit in bold
> I was really surprised that they didn't mention doing the endoscopy as that's what I thought they were going to do.
> Although Jenny Sinclair was doing the consult she wasn't the one going to be doing the investigations so I was just asked to give permission to do the tests they felt necessary(non-invasive)
> As I've put in the other thread,idiopathic lower urinary tract disease(stress cystitis) is what they think is the cause of the blood in his urine , and are suggesting that it is all tied in with the other symptoms.Hope I can get Meeko to "co-operate" with a urine sample soon so that we can see if there is any blood now.


Sorry the bold bit..I can see the link from the cystitis to ibd as it causes higher number of bacteria and causes inflammation, I think the idiopathic lower urinary tract disease is the fic I've been reading about..but will look again


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry the bold bit..I can see the link from the cystitis to ibd as it causes higher number of bacteria and causes inflammation, *I think the idiopathic lower urinary tract disease is the fic I've been reading about*..but will look again


I think you are right there ,it looks like the same thing.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think you are right there ,it looks like the same thing.


Most of what I've read talks about painful and frequent but not being able to wee..it's a mystery..however what makes sense is about the bacteria as this alone can instigate ibd symptoms..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Most of what I've read talks about painful and frequent but not being able to wee..it's a mystery..however *what makes sense is about the bacteria *as this alone can instigate ibd symptoms..


Meeko's pee habits are pretty much as they have always been,no struggling to pee etc.If you mean bacteria in his urine that was clear,or am I picking you up wrongly


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Meeko's pee habits are pretty much as they have always been,no struggling to pee etc.If you mean bacteria in his urine that was clear,or am I picking you up wrongly


Sorry must have missed that he did not have bacteria in the sample. If it is stress related then maybe it's the inflammation that is causing the vomiting..

I have to say tho I'm not convinced as I would logically think that you would see more "clinical" signs of the cystitis 

I guess it's a ruling out thing..which is so frickin frustrating :yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

This might be rambling but bare with me 

From all I've read stress is a factor with ibd as in stress can cause a flare up in their symptoms.. Riley has a stress free life I thought but as I've been monitoring his behaviour more with the whole poo o'clock  I have been noticing that he at times gets jumpy..for example my neighbour knocked on the door one night and he was is a panic over it.

So..we know stress is a factor which can show itself in many forms ie loose poo, pain, vomiting (human symptoms also) trip to the vets stress which could be a reason for blood in the urine..if this is their diagnosis as you said why during a flare up has blood not been found before.

Stress can cause inflammation and can cause inflammation in the bladder which surely could affect other internal organs like wise having ibd could cause that inflammation. As he has no clinical signs ie straining, frequent painful wee's it doesn't make fully sense to me that this could be the only cause. I think it could be a factor but I'm not convinced it's the only diagnosis..

Food found still in the stomach is a mystery..but thinking about it..longer food is there then the higher chance of bacteria and then the body fights it, but there could be more bad than good bacteria, like a fermenting effect, then maybe it's a case of expelling the food as quickly as possible through vomiting.

I need to do some more looking into it it makes sense in some ways but as he has had no other signs of the fic I'm not fully convinced..

..hope my rambling makes sense..or at least some sense


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> This might be rambling but bare with me
> 
> From all I've read stress is a factor with ibd as in stress can cause a flare up in their symptoms.. Riley has a stress free life I thought but as I've been monitoring his behaviour more with the whole poo o'clock  I have been noticing that he at times gets jumpy..for example my neighbour knocked on the door one night and he was is a panic over it.
> 
> So..we know stress is a factor which can show itself in many forms ie loose poo, pain, vomiting (human symptoms also) trip to the vets stress which could be a reason for blood in the urine..if this is their diagnosis as you said why during a flare up has blood not been found before.
> 
> Stress can cause inflammation and can cause inflammation in the bladder which surely could affect other internal organs like wise having ibd could cause that inflammation. As he has no clinical signs ie straining, frequent painful wee's it doesn't make fully sense to me that this could be the only cause. I think it could be a factor but I'm not convinced it's the only diagnosis..
> 
> Food found still in the stomach is a mystery..but thinking about it..longer food is there then the higher chance of bacteria and then the body fights it, but there could be more bad than good bacteria, like a fermenting effect, then maybe it's a case of expelling the food as quickly as possible through vomiting.
> 
> I need to do some more looking into it it makes sense in some ways but as he has had no other signs of the fic I'm not fully convinced..
> 
> ..hope my rambling makes sense..or at least some sense


Sadly yes your ramblings do make sense,I have been coming up with similar thoughts,we're either mad or genius's 
I just cant see how he can have a cystitis of any form without signs 
I think,from what I am getting from the "thinking" going on,is that he has a decreased gut mobility,hence the food still in his stomach after a 12 hour starve.
This,under a normal eating pattern could cause a back up of food coming in before the food already in,has left the stomach.What happens next he vomits up the food cos it has no where to go.My turn to ramble now


----------



## buffie

Update......Urine sample collected ,dropped off at vets,result ......... all clear no blood :thumbup::thumbup: Looks like the extra fluid in his wet food has helped or maybe it just cleared up on its own


----------



## Cazzer

Woo hoo well done Mr Magnicent Meeko :thumbup:


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Woo hoo well done Mr Magnicent Meeko :thumbup:


What a relief ,just wish I knew what had triggered it in the first place To take another in for testing in a couple of weeks to make sure it is still clear


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Update......Urine sample collected ,dropped off at vets,result ......... all clear no blood :thumbup::thumbup: Looks like the extra fluid in his wet food has helped or maybe it just cleared up on its own


Great news!! How's his other symptoms? Any vomiting inappetence etc?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Great news!! How's his other symptoms? Any vomiting inappetence etc?


No vomiting since a week past Friday but still not eating as much as I would like him to eat ,but will just wait and see how he goes over the next few days.Not full of life but has his moments so again will just have to see how we go.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> No vomiting since a week past Friday but still not eating as much as I would like him to eat ,but will just wait and see how he goes over the next few days.Not full of life but has his moments so again will just have to see how we go.


Let's hope he continues to improve


----------



## Cloudygirl

Hope he continues to pick up


----------



## Forester

Poor Meeko, He's been through quite an ordeal. Fingers crossed that his appetite soon improves.


----------



## Forester

I promised to keep you updated on how Dylan's planned elimination diet went but unfortunately plans have had to change.

He vomited a couple of times on the Sensitivity Control after 3 and a half weeks with no problems ,so I decided to get the Ropocat venison in so that I would be ready to transition him on to that. I had 1 can of the venison already so thought that it would be prudent to try it before ordering another 10kg. Unfortunately 2 small meals of venison mixed with the SC triggered much more vomiting.
Venison is now off the menu.:cryin:

I took him back to the vets yesterday feeling decidedly downhearted. The vet was much more positive. Her instinct is that it is most likely to be a sensitivity issue . She discounted the latest vomiting, putting it down to the venison, so he's back on the Sensitivity Control for a month. She felt that only vomiting a couple of times on it is definite progress. At the end of the month we will review again whether to introduce another food, or whether he needs to have , in her words, " an even more sensitive diet".

I was a bit disappointed that she dismissed my suggestion of using Ropocat, She didn't even really look at the leaflet that I'd taken with me. I'd previously shown the Ropocat leaflet to one of the junior vets who considered it to be " impressive".

I'm ecstatic that she wants to manipulate his diet before considering x rays etc. but disappointed because I'd feel happier with him on Ropocat chicken which is 100% chicken than I am with the SC which is only36% chicken , with 6% rice and has added sugars.

Buffie, I did mention Meeko's vomiting and poor gut motility however she dismissed it in Dylan's case. She said that Dylan's vomiting happens at the wrong time in relation to his meals to be due to poor gut motility.

Apologies for length of post.

Sending best wishes to you all and your IBD fur babies .


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I promised to keep you updated on how Dylan's planned elimination diet went but unfortunately plans have had to change.
> 
> He vomited a couple of times on the Sensitivity Control after 3 and a half weeks with no problems ,so I decided to get the Ropocat venison in so that I would be ready to transition him on to that. I had 1 can of the venison already so thought that it would be prudent to try it before ordering another 10kg. Unfortunately 2 small meals of venison mixed with the SC triggered much more vomiting.
> Venison is now off the menu.:cryin:
> 
> I took him back to the vets yesterday feeling decidedly downhearted. The vet was much more positive. Her instinct is that it is most likely to be a sensitivity issue . She discounted the latest vomiting, putting it down to the venison, so he's back on the Sensitivity Control for a month. She felt that only vomiting a couple of times on it is definite progress. At the end of the month we will review again whether to introduce another food, or whether he needs to have , in her words, " an even more sensitive diet".
> 
> I was a bit disappointed that she dismissed my suggestion of using Ropocat, She didn't even really look at the leaflet that I'd taken with me. I'd previously shown the Ropocat leaflet to one of the junior vets who considered it to be " impressive".
> 
> I'm ecstatic that she wants to manipulate his diet before considering x rays etc. but disappointed because I'd feel happier with him on Ropocat chicken which is 100% chicken than I am with the SC which is only36% chicken , with 6% rice and has added sugars.
> 
> Buffie, I did mention Meeko's vomiting and poor gut motility however she dismissed it in Dylan's case. She said that Dylan's vomiting happens at the wrong time in relation to his meals to be due to poor gut motility.
> 
> Apologies for length of post.
> 
> Sending best wishes to you all and your IBD fur babies .


Never say sorry for length of post Hun..we understand sometimes we need to put a lot of info and a short post doesn't cover it 

I wonder what her version of a more sensitive diet is  I wonder if something in the sc is still triggering a response..not many vets study nutrition so you may have to just take it into your own hands.

I guess in many ways now I'm lucky that my vet will try most of what I suggest as she knows I research then hind legs of things, before that I was just told to try the sensitivity diets.

Could you try the ropocat chicken and see how that goes?


----------



## Cazzer

Karlo's been eating honeys chicken for ages but hasn't shown any interest in any other raw unless covered in fortiflora. We are off to Glastonbury for the weekend soon and I wanted the honeys lamb eaten before I went. I put a little fortiflora on it but that must be long gone. Karlo meanwhile is still stuffing his face with the lamb. Just hope he will be ok for the cat sitter with no dire rear! Wonder if he will now eat it again?


----------



## Cazzer

Forester I did find that one food my vet recommended for my late Persian Oska's food issues actually made him far far worse. He had pancreatitis but would only eat dry food. He had a RC dry food I think it was the hypoallergenic and he was in an awful state on it. After that he went onto hills I/d. At least with Karlo he is ok on Grau chicken & turkey along with the honeys chicken and the sensitivity control. I found that the ropocat chicken wasn't at all popular (with any of them). It was definitely the least popular ropocat


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Karlo's been eating honeys chicken for ages but hasn't shown any interest in any other raw unless covered in fortiflora. We are off to Glastonbury for the weekend soon and I wanted the honeys lamb eaten before I went. I put a little fortiflora on it but that must be long gone. Karlo meanwhile is still stuffing his face with the lamb. Just hope he will be ok for the cat sitter with no dire rear! Wonder if he will now eat it again?


Hope all goes well while you are away,sods law and cats might not agree though


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Could you try the ropocat chicken and see how that goes?


That's what I'm hoping to do at the end of the month if he's reasonably o. k with the SC. My vet said that she would find a couple of vomits a month acceptable for him so long as he still looks as well as he does at the moment.

Cazzer, sorry I don't know how to do multi- quotes. Luckily he loves Ropocat chicken. The problem is Dylan loves all food, biologically appropriate or not.
I dread to think what the vet was thinking of when she mentioned " even more sensitive diets ". She does know that I won't feed dry before they need snow ploughs in Hell. She commented that she doesn't see many cats who look as well as Dylan and admired his soft glossy coat. I said that its probably because I don't normally feed him anything containing any cereals, sugar or soya. :devil: Her words were " we have foods which are complete that he can't possibly be sensitive to ":frown2:

I'm annoyed with myself today and braced for more vomiting. I came in from work and placed my bag containing, amongst other things, an iced bun ,on the kitchen table. I got distracted whilst taking my coat off and thought that I heard Dylan scratching in his tray. Unfortunately it was the bag containing the bun which he was tearing at. He'd eaten a chunk from one end of O H's bun. :cryin:


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Buffie, I did mention Meeko's vomiting and poor gut motility however she dismissed it in Dylan's case. She said that Dylan's vomiting happens at the wrong time in relation to his meals to be due to poor gut motility.
> 
> Apologies for length of post.
> 
> Sending best wishes to you all and your IBD fur babies .


I take it Dylan's vomiting happens fairly soon after eating then.
Meeko doesn't have a "pattern" as such it is random and could follow a meal or be hours after a meal.I assume if it is down to decreased gut mobility then it follows that he will vomit food back when his stomach is full.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> I take it Dylan's vomiting happens fairly soon after eating then.
> Meeko doesn't have a "pattern" as such it is random and could follow a meal or be hours after a meal.I assume if it is down to decreased gut mobility then it follows that he will vomit food back when his stomach is full.


Yes, buffie. Dylan's vomiting is usually about 15 minutes after eating.

My vet said vomiting due to decreased gut motility wouldn't have a regular pattern . As you said it would occur whenever the stomach became full.

How is Meeko now? ( I hope he enjoyed his birthday celebrations ). Is his appetite improving?. I do hope so.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Yes, buffie. Dylan's vomiting is usually about 15 minutes after eating.
> 
> My vet said vomiting due to decreased gut motility wouldn't have a regular pattern . As you said it would occur whenever the stomach became full.
> 
> How is Meeko now? ( I hope he enjoyed his birthday celebrations ). Is his appetite improving?. I do hope so.


Ah that makes more sense then,hope you manage to find the "trigger" .
Meeko is having good days and bad days but is a lot better than he was  Getting him to eat a wet food only diet is proving difficult though,he never has been a fan of it,but with a "possible" urinary problem he will just have to learn to like it at least for a while.


----------



## Forester

Thanks for your good wishes buffie.



buffie said:


> Getting him to eat a wet food only diet is proving difficult though,he never has been a fan of it,but with a "possible" urinary problem he will just have to learn to like it at least for a while.


I don't remember which foods Meeko is best with but could you perhaps make some broths to get some extra fluid into him. I appreciate that making broths could prove problematic if his " safe " foods are kangaroo or buffalo though.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Thanks for your good wishes buffie.
> 
> I don't remember which foods Meeko is best with but could you perhaps make some broths to get some extra fluid into him. I appreciate that making broths could prove problematic if his " safe " foods are kangaroo or buffalo though.


If only  he dislikes anything that even vaguely resembles human food so would be a non-starter.Even getting him to eat the "rubbish" cat foods takes a bit of work so the good stuff has no chance :
Weirdly he doesn't object to me adding 15/20 mls of water to his wet food if he is in the right frame of mind to eat it.
To be honest I don't think there is any food that he is best with,if it is a decreased gut mobility problem then chances are the IBD theory is way of the mark


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> If only  he dislikes anything that even vaguely resembles human food so would be a non-starter.Even getting him to eat the "rubbish" cat foods takes a bit of work so the good stuff has no chance :


Oh buffie, you truly have my sympathy. You must be superhuman to have stayed sane. In your situation most mere mortals would not have coped.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi seems like more expert options are being mulled over. Blue has been ok on grau. A bit loose. I tried sensitive rc dry and rabbit bozita...v loose stools. We are back on plain chicken n sensitive rc. I guess she is always going to be sensitive. We keep putting the probiotic powder in to 
good gut floras. She seems a lot happier now she has a new playmate Ivan. I hope all cats well. 

I know this sounds mad but would cat massage help mobilise the gut?


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Oh buffie, you truly have my sympathy. You must be superhuman to have stayed sane. In your situation most mere mortals would not have coped.


Me ,sane :w00t: :hand:. not a snowflake in hells chance . Theres nothing new in me having problem fur kids , some how they manage to find me 
Its not all bad you get used to it after a while ,it keeps me focused


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Hi seems like more expert options are being mulled over. Blue has been ok on grau. A bit loose. I tried sensitive rc dry and rabbit bozita...v loose stools. We are back on plain chicken n sensitive rc. I guess she is always going to be sensitive. We keep putting the probiotic powder in to
> good gut floras. She seems a lot happier now she has a new playmate Ivan. I hope all cats well.
> 
> *I know this sounds mad but would cat massage help mobilise the gut*?


I doubt it ,it would seem from the specialist I spoke to at the referral appointment that it could be connected to a low heart rate although my own vet has never recorded a low heart rate either before the appointment or since  
We haven't explored that theory as yet but she did say that there were drugs which could help if that was proved to be part of his problem.


----------



## bluecordelia

Low heart rate would have to be looked with blood pressure surely.. I thought gut massage might move food through a bit quicker and aid peristalsis. we will be better than the vets soon. X


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry for not being around much of late.

Riley is having a flare up and I'm at my wits end!!

It was slow coming with the odd occurrence of diarrhoea, which I was controlling. To the past seven days being hell. I stopped the pumpkin to see is that made any difference which it hasn't at all.

Called my vet, there isn't really anything we can do, which I know. But we are going to try him on a two week course of metronidazole with pro biotic then review. She is going to contact polly (referral vet) about the other immunosuppressant drug as we are only working on protocol with neither of them having any experience with it treating ibd.

I don't know whether to scream or cry right now..


----------



## Cazzer

So sorry to hear this Nicola. I wish I was closer and could give you both big hugs. You'll just have to make do with virtual ones I'm afraid. I've got no suggestions as to way forward I'm afraid. Just hope he stabilises for you x


----------



## Cazzer

Actually someone else mentioned kefir (forgotten who sorry). I was going to get some for Karlo and Kyrre to try (kyrres's face is really bad at moment poor boy and I don't want to have to give him steroids)

Pet Probiotic: Seven Bottles = One Month Course | Chuckling Goat - 01239 610 909


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks for our hugs  

Problem with riley is there isn't really many more avenues to try 

Hopefully it won't be a seven month flare up like last time


----------



## buffie

So sorry to read that Riley is having a bad time of things  ,sending him lots of healing vibes and a big hug to his slave.I wish I could offer some help but ,like you I'm all out of suggestions 

Meeko is still having good and bad days,I've just dropped a u/s off at the vet,he has an appointment tomorrow but I got a sample this morning so dropped it off.It is a bit cloudy so god knows whats going on with him.


----------



## Polly G

I am so sorry to hear that Riley is going through a bad patch. Sending you both love and hugs x


----------



## Forester

Oh Nicola , I'm so sorry to hear about Riley's flare up. 

Sorry I have no suggestions but I nevertheless wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you both. ((((( Hugs )))))


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks all..

I've just wiped the pro bioic off the wall as was not taken very well to say the least! I will keep an eye as last time he had bad sickness with it, but don't feel have a choice really at the moment.

Think will mix it in with his food and see if I can get it in him that way


----------



## bluecordelia

Poor riley. I put the probiotic in food. Half sachet twice a day. Went ok on dry n wet food. The paste probiotic was a pain so that was smeared on food with a finger. Metro is a good abx. I also put that out of syringe on food to stop stress of administrating the meds by brute force. Syringes are easy while u open pussums chops one handed. get well riley xxxx positive vibes coming your way xxx


----------



## bluecordelia

I am sure you know but prolonged antibiotics knock out bad n good gut bacteria so probiotics need to go on . The sachets can be bought online far cheaper. You need prescription for antibiotics
Xxxxxxx


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Poor riley. I put the probiotic in food. Half sachet twice a day. Went ok on dry n wet food. The paste probiotic was a pain so that was smeared on food with a finger. Metro is a good abx. I also put that out of syringe on food to stop stress of administrating the meds by brute force. Syringes are easy while u open pussums chops one handed. get well riley xxxx positive vibes coming your way xxx


He will not touch food that is tainted with anything  took a while to get him to have pumpkin in his food! Today I didn't put in his food, but he did not see me make his dinner so I had t throw it away and make in front of him so he could see no added extras 



bluecordelia said:


> I am sure you know but prolonged antibiotics knock out bad n good gut bacteria so probiotics need to go on . The sachets can be bought online far cheaper. You need prescription for antibiotics
> Xxxxxxx


He is insured and an ongoing claim so costs me nothing to get the ab's but would cost for a prescription 

I'm going to look into probiotics, find an invisible and tasteless version would be ideal 

He has been better today, small wipe of the bum needed, his bum looks better to less swollen from the diarrhoea. He hates the squirt of probiotic so much for an hour after he sits under the bed and sulks


----------



## bluecordelia

We used pro kolin enterogenic powder by protexin. In the interest of riley i can confirm it tastes of starch ie the taste of the outer coating of children's sweets that are a disc wiv sherbet in. I think they are called space ships &#55357;&#56842;. There is a slight gritty texture. Hope this helps. Glad hes a bit better. I mentioned prescription off vet as u can get metro from chemist and online cheaper if u are paying xxxx


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> We used pro kolin enterogenic powder by protexin. In the interest of riley i can confirm it tastes of starch ie the taste of the outer coating of children's sweets that are a disc wiv sherbet in. I think they are called space ships ��. There is a slight gritty texture. Hope this helps. Glad hes a bit better. I mentioned prescription off vet as u can get metro from chemist and online cheaper if u are paying xxxx


I won't even ask how you know 

Thanks will try the sachets..well not me!!


----------



## Cazzer

I posted a little while ago about Karlo eating some honeys lamb. Tonight was the first occasion that I'd fed it again. I am pleased to report the cwtchy one has eaten a good meal of it! So that is honeys chicken & lamb that he will now eat! If only I could get him to eat home made though!

Hope messrs Meeko and Riley & everyone else is ok!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> I posted a little while ago about Karlo eating some honeys lamb. Tonight was the first occasion that I'd fed it again. I am pleased to report the cwtchy one has eaten a good meal of it! So that is honeys chicken & lamb that he will now eat! If only I could get him to eat home made though!
> 
> Hope messrs Meeko and Riley & everyone else is ok!


Well done Karlo!!

Riley is still not right..the pro kolin had not much effect. I'm going to try house arrest again to see if i can get him back on track, but he isn't right, he is getting "gappy" in his coat again which isn't a good sign..

Not sure about his weight, I think he may have lost some, I'm thinking definitely to bring his vet check forward but then I also think is it worth the stress when there is nothing we can do for him. Food is just out the window as he reacts to so much. Meds wise we can go for the other drug but no real studies to rely on so I would be putting him through a ginnie pig type experiment.

My little boy is breaking my heart.. But I'm still fighting and even tho my ears will bleed with his complaining I'm hopefull I can get him back on track with house arrest, whether it works time will see but it's one thing I'm clinging too right now!

He is ok in himself..sometimes a little more quiet.but I'm not overly concerned in that respect, but I just know he isn't right..


----------



## bluecordelia

I kept the probiotics up from dec 27 until middle of jan. We seen to be ok on almo nature green pouches which are nearly raw with chicken breast. She prefers the cheap sli.ey chicken breast ie Iceland. I saw vet today with my rescue cat and he agreed when i said she will always be sensitive and have loose days. The almo pouches seem to agree as she loves the broth. Pls tell me if you think her diet is lacking. I have dry rc available too. Blue is also a lot lot more settled since i got Ivan. hope we all have a good weekend x


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm thinking definitely to bring his vet check forward but then I also think is it worth the stress when there is nothing we can do for him. .


Would your vet come out to see Riley at home Nicola to save the stress of the visit? Would your insurance cover it?

Best wishes to all hoomans and kitties.

Whilst I'm here , Dylan is about 2 and a half weeks into his further month on the Sensitivity Control and we have only had one days worth of vomiting. The bad day came the day after he pinched a half eaten chocolate biscuit and licked the chocolate off. Fingers crossed we get through the month with no more problems so that I can gradually introduce the Ropocat chicken.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Would your vet come out to see Riley at home Nicola to save the stress of the visit? Would your insurance cover it?
> 
> Best wishes to all hoomans and kitties.
> 
> Whilst I'm here , Dylan is about 2 and a half weeks into his further month on the Sensitivity Control and we have only had one days worth of vomiting. The bad day came the day after he pinched a half eaten chocolate biscuit and licked the chocolate off. Fingers crossed we get through the month with no more problems so that I can gradually introduce the Ropocat chicken.


He seems much better today..no toilet woes really..well not many as has been..might be linked to him not having the pro kolin anymore 

Not sure he would be any happier with the vet here to be honest..think would stress him just as much  luckily my vet is happy to give telephone consults and she knows he would be taken straight up there if I thought he was in any trouble..we will keep with the ab's and see how he is, but today was a better day, so that's good 

Good news about Dylan..hopefully you can get him on the ropocat without any issues, just remember slowly slowly..


----------



## Cazzer

Good news about Riley & Dylan!

Nicola keep meaning to ask have you seen the giant hedgehog?


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Good news about Riley & Dylan!
> 
> Nicola keep meaning to ask have you seen the giant hedgehog?


I've seen pictures 

Today I've seen 140 "normal size" ones  roll on spring!! Everywhere you look in the hospital there are hogs!!


----------



## Cazzer

Woo hoo!

Karlo is tucking into nuitriment beef (it doesn't have any thrive on it) 

Looks like he is finally beginning to see raw as food!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Woo hoo!
> 
> Karlo is tucking into nuitriment beef (it doesn't have any thrive on it)
> 
> Looks like he is finally beginning to see raw as food!


Right! Riley's bags are packed and he is on the train to your house to raw eating camp 

Well done Karlo!!

Riley is improving more I'm now thinking the pro kolin was having a negative effect  house arrest is painful, but he has just had a poo and I've let him out for a little while to give my ears a rest 

Poo was good, nice and solid for the most with a little bit squidge at the end, but didn't seem a drama..


----------



## Cazzer

Well done Riley mightily glad to hear that Nicola. You must be so pleased. Let's hope he stays ok now. Karlo says any time he fancies a holiday he can come & eat raw


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Well done Riley mightily glad to hear that Nicola. You must be so pleased. Let's hope he stays ok now. Karlo says any time he fancies a holiday he can come & eat raw


Really pleased 

Not sure Riley well ever "get raw" :laugh:


----------



## Cazzer

Well I never thought Karlo would. It took years before I caught him trying honeys chicken, and then probably another year for him to try beef & lamb. It's easier for me though as I always have it down for the others, much more tricky with just the one


----------



## nicolaa123

Little update now had three "good" days  I'm thinking to get another weeks worth of metrondazole from the vets to give him..I know it's not ideal antibiotics for long periods of time but if it helps him then I will give it. 

Oh and how excited am I about goat cat food!!


----------



## buffie

Evening glad to see Riley ,Karlo and Dylan are all doing well,fingers crossed it continues.
I have been staying away from talking "illness" as Meeko although doing quite well as far as his IBD is concerned has been having a hellish time with his "bloody urine" ie blood/protein/specific gravity is all off the scale  .He seems fine in himself and no difference in frequency/amount he is peeing 
He is in on Monday for xray/scan etc of his bladder to see if there is something going on.To say I'm a bit worried is putting things mildy


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Evening glad to see Riley ,Karlo and Dylan are all doing well,fingers crossed it continues.
> I have been staying away from talking "illness" as Meeko although doing quite well as far as his IBD is concerned has been having a hellish time with his "bloody urine" ie blood/protein/specific gravity is all off the scale  .He seems fine in himself and no difference in frequency/amount he is peeing
> He is in on Monday for xray/scan etc of his bladder to see if there is something going on.To say I'm a bit worried is putting things mildy


Sorry to hear about Meeko.

Lots of positive vibes being sent xx

Have the given any thoughts as to what could be the cause as yet?


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear about Meeko.
> 
> Lots of positive vibes being sent xx
> 
> Have the given any thoughts as to what could be the cause as yet?


Vet has no idea it was first thought to be FIC but as there are no clinical symptoms and it is not clearing up it seems unlikely.There was no bacteria showed up on the test sent to the lab so infection seems unlikely.
It could be anything really from cystitis to cancer or somewhere in between so ultra sound/dye in bladder/xrays seem to be the best way to go as it cant be left much longer.
The blood could be from his kidneys so there are just to many possibilities to rule any in or out without investigation.


----------



## nicolaa123

Poor boy..really hope they see what is causing the blood and can be easily treated..will be thinking of you both and sending many many positive vibes


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Poor boy..really hope they see what is causing the blood and can be easily treated..will be thinking of you both and sending many many positive vibes


Thanks Nicola will let you know how he gets on


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks Nicola will let you know how he gets on


It's more puzzling than ibd! But I would say its a positive sign he is good in himself


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> It's more puzzling than ibd! But I would say its a positive sign he is good in himself


Its so strange,I have totally stopped thinking about his IBD (if he even has it).This urine problem has taken over and really scared me ,I just don't know where this is going


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its so strange,I have totally stopped thinking about his IBD (if he even has it).This urine problem has taken over and really scared me ,I just don't know where this is going


Try as you can to keep positive (I know that's hard and I would be worried also) until we know what we are dealing with we can't find ways to help..I said we as we are all there for you both and we will fight it together all of us!!


----------



## bluecordelia

Just catching up. Everything crossed that the wee thing is sorted. We carry on with our diet. Blue is a monkey for trying to eat anything she shouldn't ie plasticc packing and her fav earbuds. I feel a lot of her issues is psychological. The more i look at how she was socialised makes me think she is highly wired. She was one of 6 from a good breeder however were left alone during the day to basically play fight. She still takes food out of her bowl as if someone might pinch it if she doesn't and kneads glass ie shower tray paintings mirrors. Her stools have improved sin,e i got lovely Ivan and he is so easy going. Luckily she is improving with lots of fussing talking and playing. willing everyone is ok xx


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry to hear news about poor Meekos urine. Would have thought it was a good sign that he seems ok on himself. As ever topping up the vibes for you both x

Good to hear everyone else is doing ok. I was hoping Karlo might have had some chunks of meat as they had ox & pork cheek. Nothing doing though despite his recent foray into trying more raw. Next time I might give him a bowl with some in covered in his favourite fortiflora!


----------



## nicolaa123

I got message from vet today..whilst she is a bit puzzled how he reacted to the pro kolin it didn't really surprise her knowing what his body is like at rejecting things 

She has agreed to make up some more metronidazole which I will give for a little bit longer, another day of no issues which is great!

I'm also experimenting with size of meals at what times, no idea if it's helping but it makes me feel useful 

She also said the pre biotic in the goat should not cause a problem..well that's the theory :sosp:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I got message from vet today..whilst she is a bit puzzled how he reacted to the pro kolin it didn't really surprise her knowing what his body is like at rejecting things
> 
> She has agreed to make up some more metronidazole which I will give for a little bit longer, another day of no issues which is great!
> 
> I'm also experimenting with size of meals at what times, no idea if it's helping but it makes me feel useful
> 
> She also said the pre biotic in the goat should not cause a problem..well that's the theory :sosp:


It must be an IBD thing,Meeko reacts in strange ways to different meds etc that most cats are fine with,his vet now never says anything just agree's that "its a Meeko thing"
Every day with out a problem is always a good day in my book


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> It must be an IBD thing,Meeko reacts in strange ways to different meds etc that most cats are fine with,his vet now never says anything just agree's that "its a Meeko thing"
> Every day with out a problem is always a good day in my book


I've also noticed since stopping the pumpkin his back end looks less sore and he hasn't had the blood on his back end after going to the toilet. Maybe I was bulking him up too much 

I'm being a bit annoying to him tonight :devil: if I call his name in a certain way he always reacts and has to then get really close to me and be all soppy  he is on my lap on his back pawing me and purring his head off 

He looks so cute


----------



## nicolaa123

Well pleased to report all still going well..I'm now cutting down the metrondazole to phase it out rather than just stop it.

Meal wise I'm doing a smaller breakfast about 50g then 100g for dinner and 100g for supper ish I have of course no idea if this is helping!!

He is also back to being a pain in the bum so I know I he is feeling better 

Hope everyone else is ok


----------



## buffie

All sounds good,if Mr R is happy and his bum is happy then what ever you are doing cant be too far wrong 
Meeko is just about back to his normal peeing routine.He was a bit will I /wont I this morning but has been twice since straight in tray ,pee, out again.Small pee's but that is not abnormal for him so hopefully all is getting back to normal.
Something I have learned from this at least is he doesn't seem to have any bad reaction to metacam inj


----------



## bluecordelia

Seems we are doing ok. Glad m n r are having a better phase or improvement. Good vet visit tomorrow for Ivan for his final jabs n chip. Have a good weekend xx


----------



## Forester

I'm so pleased to hear that everything seems to be going well for Meeko and Riley. Long may it continue. Hopefully Karlo will soon re-discover his taste for raw.

Dylan seems determined to frustrate my attempts to find him some decent food which he can eat. I started mixing some Ropocat Chicken into his sensitivity control on Wednesday gradually changing the proportions to reduce the SC. Well, small vomit on Wed, which I put down to making the change but unfortunately he's vomited again today. :mad2:

I think I will continue with the Ropo Chicken to give it a good chance but stop if he vomits again in the near future. Then I think it will be back to the SC for a while before trying either Ropocat Lamb or perhaps Omm Nom Nom chicken as I have loads of both. Just when I thought that we were getting somewhere. Even OH had noticed that the shine on Dylan's coat had increased over the last few days and for the first time since we adopted him almost a year ago he hasn't been acting as if he starving.

Oh Nicola how right you were when you said that its one step forward then 2 steps back. :sad:


----------



## buffie

Finding a food which is accepted by your cat and is also a "good food" seems to be an impossible task.Meeko is the same he either wont eat it or he pukes it up,add to that even something he does like,he will suddenly decide he doesn't anymore,usually after you have a stock of it in a cupboard.
Having said that Meeko has not been sick for 16 days a record for him since around July/August last year and that is eating just any old wet food that I can get him to eat,just to keep his fluids up


----------



## Forester

I'm really pleased for Meeko, 16 days sounds fantastic . Hopefully he will absolutely smash his record for non vomiting. How is his urine?

I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated regarding Dylan's vomiting. With my previous cats, before I found this forum, I would probably have been happy that a vet food would reduce vomiting to a level that my vet feels is acceptable its just that now I know more about nutrition I am sure that there must be something that he can tolerate which wouldn't contain the grains/sugars and other nasties that are in the Sensitivity Control. The thought of the " even more sensitive foods" which my vet suggested we could try just horrify me.:eek6:


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I'm really pleased for Meeko, 16 days sounds fantastic . Hopefully he will absolutely smash his record for non vomiting. How is his urine?
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated regarding Dylan's vomiting. With my previous cats, before I found this forum, I would probably have been happy that a vet food would reduce vomiting to a level that my vet feels is acceptable its just that now I know more about nutrition I am sure that there must be something that he can tolerate which wouldn't contain the grains/sugars and other nasties that are in the Sensitivity Control. The thought of the " even more sensitive foods" which my vet suggested we could try just horrify me.:eek6:


Last year he went 6 months without vomiting and then for no apparent reason started again.The only thing that happened was we had that really hot spell and he started to moult causing him to throw up fur balls .He does have daily Famotidine which seems to help.As for his urine I havnt a clue,I'm to scared to start fiddling in case I set him off "tray hopping" again.He is due back for a check in around 10/14 days so have plenty time to get a sample.
Have you been able to identify a trigger food/ingredient that sets off Dylan's vomiting , I have no idea with Meeko what sets him off,he seems to react to many different things,including meds which normally show no side effects to cats.This kind of leads me to think that "sensitive" cats react to more than just food.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Last year he went 6 months without vomiting and then for no apparent reason started again.The only thing that happened was we had that really hot spell and he started to moult causing him to throw up fur balls .He does have daily Famotidine which seems to help.As for his urine I havnt a clue,I'm to scared to start fiddling in case I set him off "tray hopping" again.He is due back for a check in around 10/14 days so have plenty time to get a sample.
> Have you been able to identify a trigger food/ingredient that sets off Dylan's vomiting , I have no idea with Meeko what sets him off,he seems to react to many different things,including meds which normally show no side effects to cats.This kind of leads me to think that "sensitive" cats react to more than just food.


I did have a feeling that you'd had a really long good spell with Meeko at some time. I read the whole thread from start to finish hoping that it would give me some background about everyone's kitties/ treatments but , on reflection, it was TMI at once. Poor lad, with him you do seem to have so many issues going on at once. I do feel for you.

I do understand why you don't want to upset Meeko regarding the urine issue. I would feel the same.

Sadly we don't seem to have identified any triggers for Dylan, except perhaps venison. It doesn't make sense. Logic says that he should have been o k with a novel protein but he wasn't. I put it in 3 meals and 2 came back. I thought that he should have been o k with the Ropo chicken as he was o k ( ish) with the chicken and rice sensitivity control. Perhaps there's a preservative in Ropocat which doesn't agree with him( the venison was Ropocat). I do wonder whether todays " episode" may have been because I mixed some warm water into his food as I'd forgotten to take it out of the fridge in time. Mixing warm water in has led to vomiting in the past. I'm just so confused. Perhaps he just ate too quickly.


----------



## buffie

What I find hard to accept is that if a cat,or any creature is "sensitive" to a particular ingredient/food then surely everytime they eat it they should react.I don't know if you find this with Dylan but I know that Meeko will go even during bad episodes, at least 2/3 days between being sick but eating the same food  all very odd.
This of course leads me back to is it IBD,is it reduced gut motility,is it both ,did one caused the other :crazy:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I'm so pleased to hear that everything seems to be going well for Meeko and Riley. Long may it continue. Hopefully Karlo will soon re-discover his taste for raw.
> 
> Dylan seems determined to frustrate my attempts to find him some decent food which he can eat. I started mixing some Ropocat Chicken into his sensitivity control on Wednesday gradually changing the proportions to reduce the SC. Well, small vomit on Wed, which I put down to making the change but unfortunately he's vomited again today. :mad2:
> 
> I think I will continue with the Ropo Chicken to give it a good chance but stop if he vomits again in the near future. Then I think it will be back to the SC for a while before trying either Ropocat Lamb or perhaps Omm Nom Nom chicken as I have loads of both. Just when I thought that we were getting somewhere. Even OH had noticed that the shine on Dylan's coat had increased over the last few days and for the first time since we adopted him almost a year ago he hasn't been acting as if he starving.
> 
> Oh Nicola how right you were when you said that its one step forward then 2 steps back. :sad:


It is a trial an error situation I'm afraid  every ingredient in the foods must be listed and cross referenced with any foods you try..it can send you mental, but buffie does a nice line in straight jackets 



buffie said:


> Finding a food which is accepted by your cat and is also a "good food" seems to be an impossible task.Meeko is the same he either wont eat it or he pukes it up,add to that even something he does like,he will suddenly decide he doesn't anymore,usually after you have a stock of it in a cupboard.
> Having said that Meeko has not been sick for 16 days a record for him since around July/August last year and that is eating just any old wet food that I can get him to eat,just to keep his fluids up


It it works.........pleased to hear things are improving for him..just need to figure out the urine thing now  not an easy task!



Forester said:


> I'm really pleased for Meeko, 16 days sounds fantastic . Hopefully he will absolutely smash his record for non vomiting. How is his urine?
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated regarding Dylan's vomiting. With my previous cats, before I found this forum, I would probably have been happy that a vet food would reduce vomiting to a level that my vet feels is acceptable its just that now I know more about nutrition I am sure that there must be something that he can tolerate which wouldn't contain the grains/sugars and other nasties that are in the Sensitivity Control. The thought of the " even more sensitive foods" which my vet suggested we could try just horrify me.:eek6:


The only way to really know is to do a food elimination diet, starting with a novel protein that's never been eaten before. Even if this just rules out food intolerance issues (like Riley who seems to react some times to thin air  )



buffie said:


> Last year he went 6 months without vomiting and then for no apparent reason started again.The only thing that happened was we had that really hot spell and he started to moult causing him to throw up fur balls .He does have daily Famotidine which seems to help.As for his urine I havnt a clue,I'm to scared to start fiddling in case I set him off "tray hopping" again.He is due back for a check in around 10/14 days so have plenty time to get a sample.
> Have you been able to identify a trigger food/ingredient that sets off Dylan's vomiting , I have no idea with Meeko what sets him off,he seems to react to many different things,including meds which normally show no side effects to cats.This kind of leads me to think that "sensitive" cats react to more than just food.


100% agree with your last comment!



Forester said:


> I did have a feeling that you'd had a really long good spell with Meeko at some time. I read the whole thread from start to finish hoping that it would give me some background about everyone's kitties/ treatments but , on reflection, it was TMI at once. Poor lad, with him you do seem to have so many issues going on at once. I do feel for you.
> 
> I do understand why you don't want to upset Meeko regarding the urine issue. I would feel the same.
> 
> Sadly we don't seem to have identified any triggers for Dylan, except perhaps venison. It doesn't make sense. Logic says that he should have been o k with a novel protein but he wasn't. I put it in 3 meals and 2 came back. I thought that he should have been o k with the Ropo chicken as he was o k ( ish) with the chicken and rice sensitivity control. Perhaps there's a preservative in Ropocat which doesn't agree with him( the venison was Ropocat). I do wonder whether todays " episode" may have been because I mixed some warm water into his food as I'd forgotten to take it out of the fridge in time. Mixing warm water in has led to vomiting in the past. I'm just so confused. Perhaps he just ate too quickly.


A little advice don't try to over think it all as you will end up needing one of buffies straight jackets  it may help tho to keep a diary of vomit situations, ie what was fed when and how, also anything going on in the home as could also be stress related etc etc

Riley is being a right pain today, he has been constantly complaining at me. I don't think anything is wrong as when he is off colour he is usually quiet or sits and purrs to himself  everything I do is wrong apparently!

Just went out to water some bedding plants I put in and he was with me, just moaning at me, he was like it this morning too, following me and complaining. Not sure it's worth a vet call as said I don't think there is anything physically going on 

One other thing his bum looks a bit odd he was sat on the fence (moaning at me) and I had a look at his bum as he had turned around, there looks like a pimple on it, but not too sure as he wouldn't let me get a good look so might just be where the bum is puckered like  I will have another thing to keep an eye on!!

Oh and the goat is here, but I won't be trying it yet..probably Tuesday as I'm home all day Wednesday to monitor..


----------



## buffie

Poor Riley,having his bum discussed on an open forum :yikes:.
Could it maybe be an anal gland slightly swollen making it obvious .
I wonder what Riley will make of the goat,I do hope it suits him as I know how hard you are finding it to get something else for him to eat.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley,having his bum discussed on an open forum :yikes:.
> Could it maybe be an anal gland slightly swollen making it obvious .
> I wonder what Riley will make of the goat,I do hope it suits him as I know how hard you are finding it to get something else for him to eat.


Good shout about the gland..could be, I will try him with a warm compress later..I can see more moaning in my future! He is on antibiotics still so hopefully if it is the gland they will help..don't fancy trying to have a squeeze 

I hope the goat suits as I do need a back up food! It's a shame about the inulin but I will see how it goes!

Oh and Riley is used to his bum being discussed


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> What I find hard to accept is that if a cat,or any creature is "sensitive" to a particular ingredient/food then surely everytime they eat it they should react.I don't know if you find this with Dylan but I know that Meeko will go even during bad episodes, at least 2/3 days between being sick but eating the same food  all very odd.
> :crazy:


My thoughts exactly!, My vet did rule out the poor gut motility with Dylan as his vomiting always happens about 15 minutes after eating. She said that vomiting caused by poor gut motility would occur at random times rather than with such a definite pattern.

Dylan can go 5/6 days without vomiting ( or even 2 - 3 weeks on the Sensitivity Control) but on a couple of occasions has vomited 2 - 3 times in one day whilst eating the same food


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good shout about the gland..could be, I will try him with a warm compress later..I can see more moaning in my future! He is on antibiotics still so hopefully if it is the gland they will help..don't fancy trying to have a squeeze
> 
> I hope the goat suits as I do need a back up food! It's a shame about the inulin but I will see how it goes!
> 
> *Oh and Riley is used to his bum being discussed *


We have noticed this


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> My thoughts exactly!, My vet did rule out the poor gut motility with Dylan as his vomiting always happens about 15 minutes after eating. She said that vomiting caused by poor gut motility would occur at random times rather than with such a definite pattern.
> 
> Dylan can go 5/6 days without vomiting ( or even 2 - 3 weeks on the Sensitivity Control) but on a couple of occasions has vomited 2 - 3 times in one day whilst eating the same food


Why oh why could we not just have something simple wrong with our fluff monsters


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> We have noticed this


Hmmmmm gives me an idea for a new thread..after all we have had show us your whiskers, ears, noses...what about............

Bums??

Think I've finally flipped :eek6:


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It is a trial an error situation I'm afraid  every ingredient in the foods must be listed and cross referenced with any foods you try..it can send you mental, but buffie does a nice line in straight jackets
> 
> The only way to really know is to do a food elimination diet, starting with a novel protein that's never been eaten before. Even if this just rules out food intolerance issues (like Riley who seems to react some times to thin air :r
> 
> A little advice don't try to over think it all as you will end up needing one of buffies straight jackets  it may help tho to keep a diary of vomit situations, ie what was fed when and how, also anything going on in the home as could also be stress related etc etc


Poor Riley, He has probably been trying to tell you that he wants attention at the front end and not just round his bum 

We've been trying sort of elimination diet devised by my vet based on the Sensitivity Control as he only vomited twice in a month on that.  Based on that she is reasonably confident that the vomiting is caused by a food sensitivity.

We tried a novel protein, venison, but he was far worse on that than he has been with anything else :mad2:

I am keeping a diary of foods/ symptoms but am wondering whether food temperature/ other factors could be involved.

I already need one of buffie's straightjackets, if not 2 ,so that I can wear one and have another in the wash 

Thanks for reading / offering support


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Poor Riley, He has probably been trying to tell you that he wants attention at the front end and not just round his bum
> 
> We've been trying sort of elimination diet devised by my vet based on the Sensitivity Control as he only vomited twice in a month on that.  Based on that she is reasonably confident that the vomiting is caused by a food sensitivity.
> 
> We tried a novel protein, venison, but he was far worse on that than he has been with anything else :mad2:
> 
> I am keeping a diary of foods/ symptoms but am wondering whether food temperature/ other factors could be involved.
> 
> I already need one of buffie's straightjackets, if not 2 ,so that I can wear one and have another in the wash
> 
> Thanks for reading / offering support


I would definitely be noting as you are temp of food etc..but don't get too frustrated when you think you have found a pattern then that goes wrong  as many of my theories have been blown out the water!!

I've not looked at the ropocat ingredients, what are the extras apart from the protein as that could be a place to investigate..

Oh and warm compresses on cats bum equals one un happy cat !!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmmmm gives me an idea for a new thread..after all we have had show us your whiskers, ears, noses...what about............
> 
> Bums??
> 
> Think I've finally flipped :eek6:


:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What size do you require .............Please *do not* leave any wriggle room


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Poor Riley, He has probably been trying to tell you that he wants attention at the front end and not just round his bum
> 
> We've been trying sort of elimination diet devised by my vet based on the Sensitivity Control as he only vomited twice in a month on that.  Based on that she is reasonably confident that the vomiting is caused by a food sensitivity.
> 
> We tried a novel protein, venison, but he was far worse on that than he has been with anything else :mad2:
> 
> I am keeping a diary of foods/ symptoms but am wondering whether food temperature/ other factors could be involved.
> 
> *I already need one of buffie's straightjackets, if not 2 ,so that I can wear one and have another in the wash *
> 
> Thanks for reading / offering support


There you go..........


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> What size do you require .............Please *do not* leave any wriggle room


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> What size do you require .............Please *do not* leave any wriggle room


That size looks perfect :lol::lol: I'm not sure about the colour though. Its likely to get stained when I clean up the rejected food. (Decided against using the " v" word.)

Nicola , the Ropocat chicken is listed as 100% chicken with added vitamins and minerals. There must be preservatives though which haven't been declared. I'm wondering about the quality of the chicken though, whether it might contain processed beaks, feet etc as it says "meat and animal derivatives 100% chicken". I am wondering whether Omm Nom Nom chicken might be better to try as it is 70% chicken meat, 26% chicken broth, 3%carrots and 1%minerals. All of the ONN meat is human grade.

Poor, poor Riley. He must feel as though he has sat on an ants nest. Did the compress " draw" anything?


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> That size looks perfect :lol::lol: I'm not sure about the colour though. Its likely to get stained when I clean up the rejected food. (Decided against using the " v" word.)
> 
> Nicola , the Ropocat chicken is listed as 100% chicken with added vitamins and minerals. There must be preservatives though which haven't been declared. I'm wondering about the quality of the chicken though, whether it might contain processed beaks, feet etc as it says "meat and animal derivatives 100% chicken". I am wondering whether Omm Nom Nom chicken might be better to try as it is 70% chicken meat, 26% chicken broth, 3%carrots and 1%minerals. All of the ONN meat is human grade.
> 
> Poor, poor Riley. He must feel as though he has sat on an ants nest. Did the compress " draw" anything?


It maybe worth you emailing the company and asking them what exactly makes up the food, I'm sure they will reply.

The onn does sound good, maybe try a wee bit of that.

I could not see anything, but his bum is now stuck to the floor! I will have a sneak peak later


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It maybe worth you emailing the company and asking them what exactly makes up the food, I'm sure they will reply.
> 
> The onn does sound good, maybe try a wee bit of that.
> 
> I could not see anything, but his bum is now stuck to the floor! I will have a sneak peak later


Good idea Nicola, I'll try e-mailing Ropocat.

I do hope that Riley's not literally *stuck to the floor*:yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Good idea Nicola, I'll try e-mailing Ropocat.
> 
> I do hope that Riley's not literally *stuck to the floor*:yikes:


He is doing a good impression of being stuck!!


----------



## Forester

I hope that Riley has now been released from the floor and that he, Meeko, and all other ibd/sensitive cats are doing well.

Sadly the Ropocat chicken has now been withdrawn from the menu as Dylan was sick again yesterday morning.:sad:He's back on the Sensitivity Control. 

I've had an e-mail from Ropomix requesting my address/ phone number before they can reply to my e-mail about ingredients . I'm hoping , although not counting on , that providing an answer to why Dyl has reacted to the Ropo chicken.

Buffie, would you send that straightjacket for next day delivery before noon. I'm happy to pay the extra carriage costs.:lol:

I've got to laugh because if I don't I will cry. I'm trying to take previous advice and step back from the situation but its so, so difficult. Dylan is oblivious to the situation today. Yesterday he was very subdued, most unlike him ,so I think that he must have been feeling off colour.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I hope that Riley has now been released from the floor and that he, Meeko, and all other ibd/sensitive cats are doing well.
> 
> Sadly the Ropocat chicken has now been withdrawn from the menu as Dylan was sick again yesterday morning.:sad:He's back on the Sensitivity Control.
> 
> I've had an e-mail from Ropomix requesting my address/ phone number before they can reply to my e-mail about ingredients . I'm hoping , although not counting on , that providing an answer to why Dyl has reacted to the Ropo chicken.
> 
> Buffie, would you send that straightjacket for next day delivery before noon. I'm happy to pay the extra carriage costs.:lol:
> 
> I've got to laugh because if I don't I will cry. I'm trying to take previous advice and step back from the situation but its so, so difficult. Dylan is oblivious to the situation today. Yesterday he was very subdued, most unlike him ,so I think that he must have been feeling off colour.


Riley is unstuck until I try and have a look then the glue comes out  I could see the pimple type thing Sunday morning..then I was at the hedgehog hospital all day and could not see it last night or this morning..but he isn't making it easy for me to see it! We will be at the vets next week (or sooner if I see it again) when he has his laughing gas I will ask her to have a good look and maybe empty his anal glands also..it can't hurt to have them emptied..

Once you have the ingredients you will be able to start a no list..however it will be interesting to compare them to the rc to see if any the same etc..as his ok with the rc that maybe your starting point ie finding a food that has the same ingredients (but less of) as in theory (I know I've had many before :yikes: ) he should be ok on them. Hopefully Dylan is feeling better today..

Another tip for vomiters I've read is to raise the bowl off floor level..think buffie has tried this but not sure what outcome was..

Oh and yes keep laughing as otherwise you will go mad..at least you haven't wiped a poo trail off your curtains


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## Forester

Nicola , I agree that Riley's " bum inspection" is probably best done when he is " light headed". Poor lad, his nether regions do seem to get a lot of attention.

I'm lucky that Dylan's problem has always been at the front end,( and that my curtains end about a foot off the floor.)

I'm going to try raising Dylan's dish to see if that helps.:thumbsup:I tried a " gobble-stop " bowl last summer in an attempt to slow his eating down in case that helped but it didn't really make much difference so I abandoned it.

Incidently, did you send for the goat and if so how has it gone down ?


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## buffie

Forester said:


> I hope that Riley has now been released from the floor and that he, Meeko, and all other ibd/sensitive cats are doing well.
> 
> Sadly the Ropocat chicken has now been withdrawn from the menu as Dylan was sick again yesterday morning.:sad:He's back on the Sensitivity Control.
> 
> I've had an e-mail from Ropomix requesting my address/ phone number before they can reply to my e-mail about ingredients . I'm hoping , although not counting on , that providing an answer to why Dyl has reacted to the Ropo chicken.
> 
> *Buffie, would you send that straightjacket for next day delivery before noon. I'm happy to pay the extra carriage costs.:lol:*
> 
> I've got to laugh because if I don't I will cry. I'm trying to take previous advice and step back from the situation but its so, so difficult. Dylan is oblivious to the situation today. Yesterday he was very subdued, most unlike him ,so I think that he must have been feeling off colour.


Sorry to read about Dylan bring back his Ropo cat Chicken  sometimes it feels like one step forward and 2 backwards.
As for the straight jacket,I think a relaxing bath with scented candles and a couple or 3 glasses of something alcoholic would be of more benefit 
and yes I did try raising Meeko's food dishes but all that did was make even more mess when he tried to cover them up :yikes:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Nicola , I agree that Riley's " bum inspection" is probably best done when he is " light headed". Poor lad, his nether regions do seem to get a lot of attention.
> 
> I'm lucky that Dylan's problem has always been at the front end,( and that my curtains end about a foot off the floor.)
> 
> I'm going to try raising Dylan's dish to see if that helps.:thumbsup:I tried a " gobble-stop " bowl last summer in an attempt to slow his eating down in case that helped but it didn't really make much difference so I abandoned it.
> 
> Incidently, did you send for the goat and if so how has it gone down ?


Yup, unfortunately he is a bit of a handful for the vets and it avoids him being stressed! I'm not one for gassing but in all honesty it's the best option for him and no adverse reactions once he gets past the "drunk" stage!

Goat is here but I'm waiting until I'm home all day so I can monitor closely!



buffie said:


> Sorry to read about Dylan bring back his Ropo cat Chicken  sometimes it feels like one step forward and 2 backwards.
> As for the straight jacket,I think a relaxing bath with scented candles and a couple or 3 glasses of something alcoholic would be of more benefit
> and yes I did try raising Meeko's food dishes but all that did was make even more mess when he tried to cover them up :yikes:


Ah the healing benefits of a glass or two or three 

I thought you had tried the raise dishes..but forgot about the covering up..

..arnt our boys special  :eek6:


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yup, unfortunately he is a bit of a handful for the vets and it avoids him being stressed! I'm not one for gassing but in all honesty it's the best option for him and no adverse reactions once he gets past the "drunk" stage!
> 
> Goat is here but I'm waiting until I'm home all day so I can monitor closely!
> 
> Ah the healing benefits of a glass or two or three
> 
> I thought you had tried the raise dishes..but forgot about the covering up..
> 
> *..arnt our boys special * :eek6:


:idea: :crazy: :crazy:


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## Forester

buffie said:


> I think a relaxing bath with scented candles and a couple or 3 glasses of something alcoholic would be of more benefit
> and yes I did try raising Meeko's food dishes but all that did was make even more mess when he tried to cover them up :yikes:


The bath and the " beverage" worked wonders.

I've raised Dylan's dish which has resulted in him sometimes transferring the food to the floor in order to eat it.  at least that slows his eating down and he hasn't been sick since Sunday morning, fingers crossed it stays that way.

I haven't heard back from Ropomix about additives/ preservatives since I sent my contact details but have received a very helpful ( as always) e-mail from the HappyKittyCo who are also enquiring on my behalf.

I currently have an organic free range chicken cooking to try Dylan with.( obviously as a one off due to not being balanced).I feel that I need to know whether he is o k with chicken with absolutely nothing added.

Nicola, you are very sensible to keep the "goat" until you are able to closely observe the results.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> The bath and the " beverage" worked wonders.
> 
> I've raised Dylan's dish which has resulted in him sometimes transferring the food to the floor in order to eat it.  at least that slows his eating down and he hasn't been sick since Sunday morning, fingers crossed it stays that way.
> 
> I haven't heard back from Ropomix about additives/ preservatives since I sent my contact details but have received a very helpful ( as always) e-mail from the HappyKittyCo who are also enquiring on my behalf.
> 
> I currently have an organic free range chicken cooking to try Dylan with.( obviously as a one off due to not being balanced).I feel that I need to know whether he is o k with chicken with absolutely nothing added.
> 
> Nicola, you are very sensible to keep the "goat" until you are able to closely observe the results.


nothing like bath and beverage to relax the bones 

Pleased to read Dylan has not vomited..i think the chicken idea is a good idea, at least you will be able to put on the yes or no list!!

Goat is going down well, he really likes it..not seen any adverse side effects as yet..but its still early days.

Vets have been booked for next week, bloods to be tested for his alt and ast levels, hopefully his liver has behaved..not sure what to expect weigh wise as given up trying to guess that.. ;-)


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## Forester

I will save all of my healing and positive vibes for Riley for next week. He deserves them.

I'm pleased to hear that the goat is " so far so good". I hope it continues. It would be good for you to know that you actually have a choice of foods to feed.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I will save all of my healing and positive vibes for Riley for next week. He deserves them.
> 
> I'm pleased to hear that the goat is " so far so good". I hope it continues. It would be good for you to know that you actually have a choice of foods to feed.


Thank you..

I will have so many questions about rotation of food.. uhm kangaroo one day oh and goat next :crazy:. Seriously it will just be nice for him to at least have a different flavour. I'm considering trying the hare flavour..I know he has tried rabbit but didn't really like it, so never really found out whether ok or not ok!


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## bluecordelia

Goat n bots. I have been missing all the fun. I think blue might need ropocat. We tried kiwi peak and it was left in the bowl minus the jelly. Roll on payday the green label amore was a hit buts isn't good enough i thinky. Speak soon and all take care x


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## Forester

Its fantastic news that Riley's "goat" seems to be proving very successful.

I think that I've probably " lost it " now. I'm wondering whether Dylan's problem might be multi factorial rather than just a result of food sensitivity or sensitivities. I think that one of the factors may be the time it takes to eat the meal. He's now been sick on the plain chicken. 

I'm keeping him on plain chicken for a while longer to monitor how often it makes him sick. I'm also monitoring how long it takes him to eat each meal so that I can see whether there is a correlation between how quickly he eats and the times when he vomits. Approximately 80% of his vomiting episodes occur after his breakfast and I feel that he may be eating breakfast more quickly than other meals due to the length of time since supper. He is definitely vomiting and not regurgitating. I'm aware that my theory that the vomiting is largely due to him eating too quickly doesn't appear to be supported by the fact that Royal Canin Sensitivity Control reduces the frequency of his vomiting, however,maybe the Sensitivity Control takes longer to eat than his other foods because its a chunk in jelly consistency as opposed to a pate.

Does this sound logical or am I clutching at straws because I'm not managing to identify *anything* which he can reliably eat.? 

Poor lad, I'm now chopping the chicken as finely as I can before spreading it out onto a casserole lid so that it will take as long as possible to eat. The casserole lid is raised off the floor on top of an old sweet tin.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Its fantastic news that Riley's "goat" seems to be proving very successful.
> 
> I think that I've probably " lost it " now. I'm wondering whether Dylan's problem might be multi factorial rather than just a result of food sensitivity or sensitivities. I think that one of the factors may be the time it takes to eat the meal. He's now been sick on the plain chicken.
> 
> I'm keeping him on plain chicken for a while longer to monitor how often it makes him sick. I'm also monitoring how long it takes him to eat each meal so that I can see whether there is a correlation between how quickly he eats and the times when he vomits. Approximately 80% of his vomiting episodes occur after his breakfast and I feel that he may be eating breakfast more quickly than other meals due to the length of time since supper. He is definitely vomiting and not regurgitating. I'm aware that my theory that the vomiting is largely due to him eating too quickly doesn't appear to be supported by the fact that Royal Canin Sensitivity Control reduces the frequency of his vomiting, however,maybe the Sensitivity Control takes longer to eat than his other foods because its a chunk in jelly consistency as opposed to a pate.
> 
> Does this sound logical or am I clutching at straws because I'm not managing to identify *anything* which he can reliably eat.?
> 
> Poor lad, I'm now chopping the chicken as finely as I can before spreading it out onto a casserole lid so that it will take as long as possible to eat. The casserole lid is raised off the floor on top of an old sweet tin.


It could be a factor, have you tried making smaller meals but more often..not easy if you work I know, but maybe breakfast spread over two meals so he has a break and also does not eat as much the first time round?

I have a similar theory with Riley so am now trying different meal sizes at different times. He has a larger supper, medium breakfast and small dinner. What if you made the chicken in chunks so he has to chew them rather than Hoover them?


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It could be a factor, have you tried making smaller meals but more often..not easy if you work I know, but maybe breakfast spread over two meals so he has a break and also does not eat as much the first time round?
> 
> I have a similar theory with Riley so am now trying different meal sizes at different times. He has a larger supper, medium breakfast and small dinner. What if you made the chicken in chunks so he has to chew them rather than Hoover them?


I confess that he's already on 6 small meals. I'm lucky that OH is at home whilst I am at work. The first breakfast starts at 6am culminating in supper at approx. 9.30 pm. I've always thought that the 6.15 am vomiting might have something to do with the long interval since supper. I do try to give supper as late as possible but am usually falling asleep :Yawn:..Unfortunately I'm someone who needs a lot of sleep.


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## Cazzer

Well so far nothing noxious in the litter tray, so so far cwtchy Karlo is fine on the reindeer. To be fair I've not seen him use the facilities but being an NFC he ends up with mucky pantaloons if a food upsets him ( for a NFC he has a very big coat)

Will try him with some more tomorrow


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I confess that he's already on 6 small meals. I'm lucky that OH is at home whilst I am at work. The first breakfast starts at 6am culminating in supper at approx. 9.30 pm. I've always thought that the 6.15 am vomiting might have something to do with the long interval since supper. I do try to give supper as late as possible but am usually falling asleep :Yawn:..Unfortunately I'm someone who needs a lot of sleep.


What about a big play session at night then a big supper to one really tire him so he gets up later and also really fill his tummy up??

Riley's supper time is about 11 pm the breakfast at around 7 am.

Or what about one of them automatic feeders to give a meal say about 2 am ish?


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Well so far nothing noxious in the litter tray, so so far cwtchy Karlo is fine on the reindeer. To be fair I've not seen him use the facilities but being an NFC he ends up with mucky pantaloons if a food upsets him ( for a NFC he has a very big coat)
> 
> Will try him with some more tomorrow


Good news! Riley didn't take to Rudolph  I think it was too course for him or he just loves Christmas too much 

I see you have ordered goat..I will be ordering some more goat for this week..Riley really enjoys it and so far it's ok. I'm baby sitting tonight so not home but hopefully he will have "been"

My only problem I can see is that he won't eat the kangaroo any more  tough love will be used!!

I just really hope it continues to be ok with no side effects or back end woes..oh and if there are preferbly before I order 30 tins of it!!


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## Cazzer

Forester I know Dylan's problem is the other end to Karlo's but I find Karlo can take the chicken better in the RC better than Grau chicken or honeys chicken or even boiled chicken. He is definitely a lot softer on these others.


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It could be a factor, have you tried making smaller meals but more often..not easy if you work I know, but maybe breakfast spread over two meals so he has a break and also does not eat as much the first time round?
> 
> I have a similar theory with Riley so am now trying different meal sizes at different times. He has a larger supper, medium breakfast and small dinner. What if you made the chicken in chunks so he has to chew them rather than Hoover them?


How has Riley been with the new meal routine?. Do you think that its made a difference?

I confess that Dylan's already on 6 small meals. I'm lucky that OH is at home whilst I am at work. ( My vet didn't really approve, she told me that feeding so often would just mask the symptoms rather than solving the problem however OH likes to have something to give to Dylan so that he can eat his own breakfast and lunch in peace! ) The first breakfast starts at 6am culminating in supper at approx. 9.30 pm. I've always thought that the 6.15 am vomiting might have something to do with the long interval since supper. I do try to give supper as late as possible but am usually falling asleep :Yawn:..Unfortunately I'm someone who needs a lot of sleep.

The chicken at the moment is cooked and seems sufficiently soft for him to inhale unless its spread over a large dish.

Incidently , prior to the vet putting him on the Sensitivity Control I used to feed a half a raw chicken wing each day . He only managed to vomit the piece of wing once during a 9 month period. At the turn of the year I had thought that " raw " might be the way to go so I tried feeding some rabbit . Unfortunately, it was the rabbit which increased the frequency of Dylan's vomiting such that I took him to the vets. At different times raw rabbit, Ropocat chicken, Ropocat venison and Natures Menu chicken and turkey all seem to have triggered more frequent vomiting. Can he really be sensitive to chicken, turkey, rabbit and venison ( which he'd never had before)!:crazy: If he's sensitive to chicken how can he eat the sensitivity control? The more I think about the problem the more questions I seem to have.

Sorry Cazzer, cross posted. It takes me ages to type my posts out!

Apologies all for duplicate post. I had a nervous twitch and posted a half written message without realising it. I must be tired.


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> What about a big play session at night then a big supper to one really tire him so he gets up later and also really fill his tummy up??
> 
> Riley's supper time is about 11 pm the breakfast at around 7 am.
> 
> Or what about one of them automatic feeders to give a meal say about 2 am ish?


I have been wondering whether an automatic feeder might help. I'll look into it more. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> How has Riley been with the new meal routine?. Do you think that its made a difference?
> 
> I confess that Dylan's already on 6 small meals. I'm lucky that OH is at home whilst I am at work. ( My vet didn't really approve, she told me that feeding so often would just mask the symptoms rather than solving the problem however OH likes to have something to give to Dylan so that he can eat his own breakfast and lunch in peace! ) The first breakfast starts at 6am culminating in supper at approx. 9.30 pm. I've always thought that the 6.15 am vomiting might have something to do with the long interval since supper. I do try to give supper as late as possible but am usually falling asleep :Yawn:..Unfortunately I'm someone who needs a lot of sleep.
> 
> The chicken at the moment is cooked and seems sufficiently soft for him to inhale unless its spread over a large dish.
> 
> Incidently , prior to the vet putting him on the Sensitivity Control I used to feed a half a raw chicken wing each day . He only managed to vomit the piece of wing once during a 9 month period. At the turn of the year I had thought that " raw " might be the way to go so I tried feeding some rabbit . Unfortunately, it was the rabbit which increased the frequency of Dylan's vomiting such that I took him to the vets. At different times raw rabbit, Ropocat chicken, Ropocat venison and Natures Menu chicken and turkey all seem to have triggered more frequent vomiting. Can he really be sensitive to chicken, turkey, rabbit and venison ( which he'd never had before)!:crazy: If he's sensitive to chicken how can he eat the sensitivity control? The more I think about the problem the more questions I seem to have.
> 
> Sorry Cazzer, cross posted. It takes me ages to type my posts out!
> 
> Apologies all for duplicate post. I had a nervous twitch and posted a half written message without realising it. I must be tired.


It seems to help a bit (might be wishful thinking) but I also have to make sure he has a poo routine  so if I can get him to go at the same time each day it seems to be better..not easy when life gets in the way but for the most part we do..for example he can use his tray say at 10 pm no dramas, then say I'm home next day and he goes out at 9 am he will goto the toilet and have a drama..but then some times he can go at the same time and also we have a drama (substitute drama for diarrhoea and back end washing) he can also use his tray one day no drama, next day use tray and have a drama..go figure.

But I do have less dramas when I'm consistent in his routine ut:

They can become intolerant to foods they have had before after a certain period, this can be short or long unfortunately..have you thought about trying the anti sickness meds buffie gives Meeko..name escapes me now..

Oh and not to alarm or worry but true ibd is not food or parasitic led but just the body being a pain in the bum..

Riley has been on prescription diets..and still ended up having problems on them and still does on the food he is on now..so his is refractory ibd ie one that's blinking hard to treat and is not just down to food intolerance or parasitic or bacteria led. Therefore whilst I can minimise through food, ie he can't eat most proteins or have any grains it won't stop the ibd as that's the condition..now I see it as more of a help when it flares up condition with the right meds. Food will always to some extent be rejected by his body, I just have to get on top of any flare ups to minimise reduction in body weight and condition.

Sorry rambled on a bit, hope it makes sense 

I think if I was you and Dylan is vomiting on the rc as well as other food I would now be asking for more tests, to start with an ultra scan so they can have a look for thickening etc and also full blood work to check overall health. I think you have said he has had the pooled stool sample tested..and was clear?

Ibd is like a scratch you just can't reach to itch!


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I have been wondering whether an automatic feeder might help. I'll look into it more. Thanks for the suggestion.


I did think to get one for Riley..so I can have a lay in on a Sunday


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I think if I was you and Dylan is vomiting on the rc as well as other food I would now be asking for more tests, to start with an ultra scan so they can have a look for thickening etc and also full blood work to check overall health. I think you have said he has had the pooled stool sample tested..and was clear?


The vet is fairly confident that the problem is a food sensitivity one because he is soooo much better on the Sensitivity Control. Prior to going on the SC he had vomited 3 times in 2 days. With SC its approximately twice a month. She said she would be happy if he could be maintained on a level of twice a month. She said he may just be a " sicky cat".

She suggested trying dietary manipulation for up to 6 months before considering endoscopy/ x rays etc because she said that she very rarely sees a cat who looks as well as Dylan .and he's only 18 months old so hyperthyroid/ kidney issues unlikely. He hasn't had a stool test but has been treated with Profender twice. If I hadn't seen the " returns" I would never imagine that anything could be wrong. He's happy, lively and has the softest, glossiest coat that I have ever seen. I just wish that he could be relied on to keep his food down.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It seems to help a bit (might be wishful thinking) but I also have to make sure he has a poo routine  so if I can get him to go at the same time each day it seems to be better..not easy when life gets in the way but for the most part we do..for example he can use his tray say at 10 pm no dramas, then say I'm home next day and he goes out at 9 am he will goto the toilet and have a drama..but then some times he can go at the same time and also we have a drama (substitute drama for diarrhoea and back end washing) he can also use his tray one day no drama, next day use tray and have a drama..go figure.
> 
> But I do have less dramas when I'm consistent in his routine ut:
> 
> They can become intolerant to foods they have had before after a certain period, this can be short or long unfortunately..have you thought about trying the anti sickness meds buffie gives Meeko..name escapes me now..
> 
> Oh and not to alarm or worry but true ibd is not food or parasitic led but just the body being a pain in the bum..
> 
> Riley has been on prescription diets..and still ended up having problems on them and still does on the food he is on now..so his is refractory ibd ie one that's blinking hard to treat and is not just down to food intolerance or parasitic or bacteria led. Therefore whilst I can minimise through food, ie he can't eat most proteins or have any grains it won't stop the ibd as that's the condition..now I see it as more of a help when it flares up condition with the right meds. Food will always to some extent be rejected by his body, I just have to get on top of any flare ups to minimise reduction in body weight and condition.
> 
> Sorry rambled on a bit, hope it makes sense


You make perfect sense. I know that you have already considered the stress factor with Riley but perhaps that's why routine has become so important for him. Poor boy, he's certainly has some stress to deal with over his problems. Everything is crossed here for him regarding his vet visit this week. Hoping that his blood levels will fine and that his weight will be stable or increasing.

To illustrate the " stress " point I've suffered from chronic pain since a horse riding accident in 2002. For the last 5 or 6 months my pain levels have been through the roof causing me to give in my notice at work. Since giving in my notice my pain level has reduced to being almost insignificant. I would never have believed that removing a stressor could have such a dramatic effect on my body.

The goat certainly does sound promising for him.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> You make perfect sense. I know that you have already considered the stress factor with Riley but perhaps that's why routine has become so important for him. Poor boy, he's certainly has some stress to deal with over his problems. Everything is crossed here for him regarding his vet visit this week. Hoping that his blood levels will fine and that his weight will be stable or increasing.
> 
> To illustrate the " stress " point I've suffered from chronic pain since a horse riding accident in 2002. For the last 5 or 6 months my pain levels have been through the roof causing me to give in my notice at work. Since giving in my notice my pain level has reduced to being almost insignificant. I would never have believed that removing a stressor could have such a dramatic effect on my body.
> 
> The goat certainly does sound promising for him.


Agree with you, stress is a factor, only problem is cats don't really show signs of stress, well Riley doesn't. Then saying that does he? Got me thinking now :eek6: he certainly complains more if I've been at work and come home a little late, I thought it was just him having a moan, maybe that's showing me he was stressed about it..

Definitely one for me to keep a note on


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## Cazzer

Greetings fellow poo watchers & cats!

Interesting re the stress. I know it caused a colleague of mine to go deaf. Moment she finished work she could hear again.

Well the cwtchy one has been a very good boy!!

No mucky trousers, no flat pancakes of poo in the litter tray 

He's had a tea spoon of reindeer with each of his meals today. So will see what the rest of today/tomorrow brings


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## Forester

That's fantastic news Cazzer. Hoping that tomorrow brings more good news for you.


----------



## bluecordelia

I consider the stress idea extremely likely for some. Blue came from a biggish litter and although i wanted a top breeder i didn't think the kits were left all day basically scrapping. I have got her various toys but the giant cat tree and semi outdoor access have transformed her. She is more settled hanging out up high. She plays well with Ivan but a bit boisterous. They are rarely alone but i haven't yet got a complete food she likes so will be investing in an account with happy kitty. we still have cow pat days but not the running. I have got 3 litter trays with natures best.....no fancy scented crystals. She still poops on shower tray but seems a more content cat. currently green label amore is fav. Kiwi peak was rejected as was bozita chicken n rabbit. Raw chick is ok and cooked plain chick. I try to avoid fish or any meat a cat wouldn't get in the wild but will try ropocat. take care kitties and helpers. X


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## Forester

How's things today Cazzer ?

Bluecordelia, I can send you a can of Ropocat chicken if you'd like to try it. Just PM your address if you'd like it.

Nicola Is the goat still proving successful?

How's Meeko?

Best wishes to all other kitties and slaves.

I woke at 2.30 this morning so gave Dylan a small amount of plain chicken so that he wouldn't be so hungry at breakfast time. It didn't work, breakfast was " returned". Back to the sensitivity control for a while till I decide what to try next.


----------



## Forester

Well, I decided to finish the last bit of cooked chicken for Dylan before returning to the Sensitivity Control. I so wish that I hadn't. For the second day running I fed him a small amount at 2am as per the new plan . The result......a second day of breakfast " returns". 

That theory that Dylan's vomiting is often due to having a long gap between meals is being rapidly dispelled.


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## Cazzer

Things are ok thanks Forester. He also had some nuitriment beef and ropocat lamb, both of which he ate with evident enjoyment. Actually eat the ropocat rather than the RC! Not heard back from VC, so going to keep on with the ropocat adding a bit more each day.

What a pain re the ropocat chicken/plain chicken, as said previously it's not popular here and upset Karlo. Have you tried Dylan on om nom nom? Not cheap but probably cheaper than RC. taffys chicken was also popular but can only get from Floyds or FMS I think.

Hope Riley & Meeko and others are all ok.


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## Forester

Cazzer, I'm glad that Karlo is enjoying the nutriment beef and ropocat lamb and that they seem to agree with him. What were you planning to try from VC?

Dylan *has* tried the Omm Nom Nom, he's had both the chicken and the chicken and veal and loves both. I'd be ecstatic if I could feed him O N N all of the time but I'm starting to wonder whether chicken might be something he's sensitive to. Strange thing is the food he's best on is the chicken and rice sensitivity control : 
He's back on the SC now. The idea of feeding him a little at 2am has so far, ( only 2 nights) proved a total flop. Returns of breakfast both days. 
Once he settles I think that I'll try either ropocat lamb or vc kangaroo. Nicola is very kindly sending a can of kangaroo for Dyl to try which will be fantastic as I've previously ordered masses of food only to find that it doesn't appear suitable. My local CP have done rather well for donations of high quality cat food but I can't really afford to keep doing it.
One thing I'm very sad about is that , apart from when he's on SC, Dylan is now vomiting more than he was before initially visiting the vets.Thats partly why I'm wondering whether it's mainly chicken that he has a problem with ( although it doesn't explain the awful reaction to the venison). Its just so frustrating.

I've been thinking about Riley a lot this week and wondering whether he's been to the vets yet and if so how it went.

Best wishes to Meeko and all other cats, and slaves.


----------



## nicolaa123

Hi..Riley has had his first goat only meal..so am waiting for results!! We arnt at the vets until Thursday, will update results as I get them 

Kazzer, did you ask vc to email confirmation of order..I put this in my emails and I normally get an email straight back..

Forester, sorry to hear about Dylan's vomiting..I will post kangaroo tomorrow so hopefully you will get Thursday  what about feeding a later breakfast see if that makes any difference


----------



## nicolaa123

Tough love alert!!

So the pain in the bum aka Riley has now decided if it ain't goat it ain't being eaten  I put his breakfast of kangaroo down and was sniffed, ignored, sworn at 

Lunch kangaroo (I'm trying the rotation thing ) kanagroo..nope not wanted..dinner more eaten..

A cat can't live by goat alone!!


----------



## Forester

Poor Riley, He's probably worried that if he eats the kangaroo he may not get given any more goat.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Poor Riley, He's probably worried that if he eats the kangaroo he may not get given any more goat.


He won't have anything tomorrow before the vets! Breakfast only


----------



## buffie

Nothing personal guys but I have been trying to staying away from IBD  .
Hope every one is doing as well as can be expected,sending some positive vibes Riley's way for tomorrow, hope it all goes well.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nothing personal guys but I have been trying to staying away from IBD  .
> Hope every one is doing as well as can be expected,sending some positive vibes Riley's way for tomorrow, hope it all goes well.


Thank you and no worries at all xx

Hope all is as ok as it can be xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thank you and no worries at all xx
> 
> Hope all is as ok as it can be xx


All going fairly well ,cant seem to manage to get a u/s from Mr M so havnt had him back for a check up.He seems to be able to stop mid flow or re-direct as soon as I slip the catcher under his bum  he must have been reading up on how to make it difficult .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> All going fairly well ,cant seem to manage to get a u/s from Mr M so havnt had him back for a check up.He seems to be able to stop mid flow or re-direct as soon as I slip the catcher under his bum  he must have been reading up on how to make it difficult .


Ah the book..how to avoid some one taking your wee away 

I don't know why but I'm not feeling good about vets tomorrow, just a niggle and my niggles are unfortunately normally correct..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah the book..how to avoid some one taking your wee away
> 
> I don't know why but I'm not feeling good about vets tomorrow, just a niggle and my niggles are unfortunately normally correct..


I know what you mean,I feel like that too,but then I always do.
I always think the worst,that way if I'm wrong it can only be better.
Paws crossed you are worrying for nothing and all will be okay.


----------



## Cazzer

nicolaa123 said:


> Kazzer, did you ask vc to email confirmation of order..I put this in my emails and I normally get an email straight back..


I've not heard anything from them Nicola apart from a standard email in German received immediately after I sent mine. So I haven't had a PayPal invoice, so unless they have sent it without payment I can't see how I have an order. Karlo meanwhile is still fine on the ropocat lamb! Which he loves!

Hope all goes well for Riley. Fusses for all cats, but especially for Mr Riley. Hugs to Nicola as well (and anyone else that ends them)


----------



## nicolaa123

Well we are back, he was really good and didn't have to have much gas this time for his bloods. She checked him all over apparently has a nice firm poo ready :sosp: temp fine thing on bottom is fine just his prolapse type polyp that shows itself 

Bad news he lost weight down to 4.24 which I know it's only 10g but it's big for him, she says could be down to recent flare up but he will be on regular weight checks for a while.

Hopefully bloods will be better then liver will not have to be retested as often..

He is now happily eating still wee bit groggy I'm going to get some happy juice for me


----------



## Cazzer

Glad it's all over for now apart from the results. Good news about the polyp & poo. Hopefully though now he's stable he won't lose any more and might even put a bit on. Our fingers & paws are crossed for good liver results.

Enjoy your happy juice!


----------



## Cazzer

Meanwhile at the villa, Karlo has had 50% RC and 50% ropocat lamb. No mucky trousers or pancakes in the litter tray, so all seems to be good :thumbup:

Meanwhile still nothing from VC. Not that I am too worried in circumstances as have several mountains of cat food! Karlo's menu options have increased dramatically as well of late. I do need to get some more raw in though soon.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Meanwhile at the villa, Karlo has had 50% RC and 50% ropocat lamb. No mucky trousers or pancakes in the litter tray, so all seems to be good :thumbup:
> 
> Meanwhile still nothing from VC. Not that I am too worried in circumstances as have several mountains of cat food! Karlo's menu options have increased dramatically as well of late. I do need to get some more raw in though soon.


That's really odd about vc I emailed order on Monday and was delivered Wednesday! Might be worth a follow up email I can get you a contact name of who I deal with if that helps


----------



## Cazzer

That would be good Nicola. I won't pursue it until next credit card month. That'll give me better idea re the lamb & reduce the food mountain a bit. I've still probably got a fair few months supply of food in (even for 8 cats!)


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> That would be good Nicola. I won't pursue it until next credit card month. That'll give me better idea re the lamb & reduce the food mountain a bit. I've still probably got a fair few months supply of food in (even for 8 cats!)


I deal with Christina Fendel and Julia Weber


----------



## nicolaa123

Happy happy happy happy :thumbup: :thumbup:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/358836-rileys-liver-results.html


----------



## Forester

I've posted on the thread in Cat Chat but let it be said that I'm very, very happy for you and Riley, Nicola.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi sounds all good at mo. Thanks for offer of food but after all the positives about ropocat it will save me a tidy amount if i forgo zp n go for it. Are u buying from happykitty? I think we need a road trip with a van n bulk buy. if anyone wants, i have a box of bozita chicken kitten....the yellow tetrapaks, some bozita rabbit n a few kiwi peak. If no takers i will drop off to cp Warrington. off to enjoy our catit maze. Take care x


----------



## Forester

Yes Bluecordelia, I buy ropocat from the Happy Kitty Co. I think that they are the only supplier in the U K. Their service is brilliant but if you do change your mind and would like me to send you a can of the chicken to try just drop me a PM.


----------



## bluecordelia

Thanks again but i managed to buy 20 cans on ebay as a one off another poor soul with a fussy kit. If not well receivd will offer to the ibs gang. Everyone have a great time with no poopy times x


----------



## richtea78

This is fascinating. I am a new cat owner (collected my adopted cat today) and I have Crohns disease myself. I had never even considered a cat could get it!


----------



## nicolaa123

richtea78 said:


> This is fascinating. I am a new cat owner (collected my adopted cat today) and I have Crohns disease myself. I had never even considered a cat could get it!


Hi and welcome!

Yes unfortunately they can get ibd it's such a horrible thing as it can not be cured just managed and that's a job in itself!


----------



## buffie

Evening fellow IBD 'ers,hope we are all doing as well as possible.
Should have updated earlier but have been trying not to think about this,
Meeko had another u/s tested on Friday and there is still blood in it .
It is looking likely that the blood is coming from a kidney as there is no real evidence of cystitis.
If this is the case then I don't think there is a lot that can be done .Unless there is any change or he becomes unwell he has to go back at the end of the month for another urine and blood test to check kidney function and to make sure he isn't showing any signs of anaemia ,his blood results done at the vet hospital in February were all fine.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Evening fellow IBD 'ers,hope we are all doing as well as possible.
> Should have updated earlier but have been trying not to think about this,
> Meeko had another u/s tested on Friday and there is still blood in it .
> It is looking likely that the blood is coming from a kidney as there is no real evidence of cystitis.
> If this is the case then I don't think there is a lot that can be done .Unless there is any change or he becomes unwell he has to go back at the end of the month for another urine and blood test to check kidney function and to make sure he isn't showing any signs of anaemia ,his blood results done at the vet hospital in February were all fine.


Oh Hun..he is so young to have ckd if that is it..poor boy, poor you xx

Just a few q's sorry..was his blood pressure high or low?
Did they scan the kidneys were they small in size?

Just been reading some stuff and from what you have said about results..and I know I'm not a vet but doesn't sound like it is or if it is then caught early


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh Hun..he is so young to have ckd if that is it..poor boy, poor you xx
> 
> Just a few q's sorry..was his blood pressure high or low?
> Did they scan the kidneys were they small in size?
> 
> Just been reading some stuff and from what you have said about results..and I know I'm not a vet but doesn't sound like it is or if it is then caught early


His kidneys are smallish and did show very slight changes to previous scan.His blood pressure,taken at the vet college was lowish but when my own vet checked it was 180 which is in the normal range.
I really don't know what to make of it all.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> His kidneys are smallish and did show very slight changes to previous scan.His blood pressure,taken at the vet college was lowish but when my own vet checked it was 180 which is in the normal range.
> I really don't know what to make of it all.


I've been reading about blood in urine and it could be due to numerous reasons not just the kidneys, read about ckd and I don't know yes some symptoms are the same but some are opposite ie the blood pressure, age..

It can also be due to unknown cause..and I thought ibd was complicated :yikes:

We will get to the bottom of this! Can you ask for a print out of all results from vet hospital and urine tests done after. There is a yahoo group for ckd we can ask on there for their knowledge and also do some more research


----------



## Cazzer

Oh Buffie sending you and the magnificent one some hugs. Sounds like you both could do with a double dose right now. Poor boy :sad:


----------



## richtea78

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi and welcome!
> 
> Yes unfortunately they can get ibd it's such a horrible thing as it can not be cured just managed and that's a job in itself!


How is it managed in cats?

I manage mine by diet and quite a lot of medication. Mainly Azathioprine and Pentasa to suppress the disease and a lot of painkillers to manage the pain.


----------



## Cazzer

It's managed by diet as well in cats. The trouble is finding the right diet that the cat will eat. It can be very difficult. Steroids can be given as well, but vets won't give these if cat is young like mine due to diabetes risk. 

Nichola's cat Riley is an unusual case as he's had another drug (name escapes me at moment!)


----------



## nicolaa123

richtea78 said:


> How is it managed in cats?
> 
> I manage mine by diet and quite a lot of medication. Mainly Azathioprine and Pentasa to suppress the disease and a lot of painkillers to manage the pain.


Mine currently is on kangaroo or goat protein cat food with nothing else, with a once a week chlorambucil tablet with occasional medication of metronidazole, steroids didn't help and I have another immunosuppressant on stand by if needed!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I've been reading about blood in urine and it could be due to numerous reasons not just the kidneys, read about ckd and I don't know yes some symptoms are the same but some are opposite ie the blood pressure, age..
> 
> It can also be due to unknown cause..and I thought ibd was complicated :yikes:
> 
> We will get to the bottom of this! Can you ask for a print out of all results from vet hospital and urine tests done after. There is a yahoo group for ckd we can ask on there for their knowledge and also do some more research


I don't think my vet is considering anything quite as scary as CKD ,as to date his blood results are all okay and rather than dilute urine,if anything it is too concentrated and he doesn't drink much at all that's why he has "soup" when he gets his wet food.I have to add water to it.
It is still possible it is idiopathic lower urinary tract disease,that is the most likely cause ,and if he pee'd more frequently or tried to and didn't then it would fit perfectly,but this is Meeko and he doesn't follow rules



Cazzer said:


> Oh Buffie sending you and the magnificent one some hugs. Sounds like you both could do with a double dose right now. Poor boy :sad:


Thank you Cazzer this is not funny now  It just seems that we go from one thing to another.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> It's managed by diet as well in cats. The trouble is finding the right diet that the cat will eat. It can be very difficult. Steroids can be given as well, but vets won't give these if cat is young like mine due to diabetes risk.
> 
> Nichola's cat Riley is an unusual case as he's had another drug (name escapes me at moment!)


Yup Riley is unusual!!   he has refractory ibd ie an absolute pain in the bum to manage :yikes: but I was thinking this the other day as he had mucky bum (I've stopped ab's so was reaction to no ab's ) if he had another slave would his life be the same or would he have ended up in a cat home un loved with a mucky bum  made me cry a bit to be honest.

As much as I do have a little complain about the whole back end he is my Riley and I love him to bits..


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I don't think my vet is considering anything quite as scary as CKD ,as to date his blood results are all okay and rather than dilute urine,if anything it is too concentrated and he doesn't drink much at all that's why he has "soup" when he gets his wet food.I have to add water to it.
> It is still possible it is idiopathic lower urinary tract disease,that is the most likely cause ,and if he pee'd more frequently or tried to and didn't then it would fit perfectly,but this is Meeko and he doesn't follow rules
> 
> Thank you Cazzer this is not funny now  It just seems that we go from one thing to another.


Ah that's what I was leaning towards the idiopathic reason..not because he is Meeko  but his symptoms just didn't say it's defiantly this or that!

Our boys are awkward so and so's..

But luckily for them they have us and we will fight!


----------



## Cazzer

Nicola your love for Riley shines through so much (as does buffies for Meeko). I think they are lucky cats to have found you both!


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Nicola your love for Riley shines through so much (as does buffies for Meeko). I think they are lucky cats to have found you both!


All our cats are! You look what you do for Karlo..

But Riley is still a pain in the bum


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## buffie

I think we can agree that we all do everything in our power to try to keep our furbabes as healthy as we can,even although they sometimes make that oh so difficult 
We read stuff,scare ourselves witless,bawl our eyes out and come to pf for help and comfort


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I think we can agree that we all do everything in our power to try to keep our furbabes as healthy as we can,even although they sometimes make that oh so difficult
> We read stuff,scare ourselves witless,bawl our eyes out and come to pf for help and comfort


Agree 100%!!


----------



## Forester

buffie, I'm afraid that I don't have anything to add to what's already been said but wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and Meeko and sending (((( Hugs )))).


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> buffie, I'm afraid that I don't have anything to add to what's already been said but wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and Meeko and sending (((( Hugs )))).


Thanks Forester,Meeko is well in himself so I'm hoping it is something simple.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Thanks Forester,Meeko is well in himself so I'm hoping it is something simple.


Being well in themselves is good! There could be so many reasons for the blood, was reading could even be his prostrate! Poor boy but I'm pleased all is good right now and it's not affecting him too much..

Riley is now off his metrondazole and had a couple of days with the runs (maws expecting that to be honest).

Goat is still the preferred menu of choice and due to the runs I've got him back on half and half with the kangaroo and will now increase that again. Then I can rotate foods! I'm so excited about rotation (I know I know it's just two foods) I know tho the little ( insert word) is going to be a pain in the (insert word) and refuse the kangaroo! rrr:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Being well in themselves is good! There could be so many reasons for the blood, was reading could even be his prostrate! Poor boy but I'm pleased all is good right now and it's not affecting him too much..
> 
> Riley is now off his metrondazole and had a couple of days with the runs (maws expecting that to be honest).
> 
> Goat is still the preferred menu of choice and due to the runs I've got him back on half and half with the kangaroo and will now increase that again. Then I can rotate foods! I'm so excited about rotation (I know I know it's just two foods) I know tho the little ( insert word) is going to be a pain in the (insert word) and refuse the kangaroo! rrr:


Oh dear "dire rear" strikes  but at least you know why 
Hopefully once his bum problems subside and he is on his food rotation he will accept it,after all he loved his kangaroo before he ever met goat


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh dear "dire rear" strikes  but at least you know why
> Hopefully once his bum problems subside and he is on his food rotation he will accept it,after all he loved his kangaroo before he ever met goat


Goat is the new kangaroo!

If you would like I can send a tin for mr m to try..


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Goat is the new kangaroo!
> 
> If you would like I can send a tin for mr m to try..


That's very kind of you but I think,from past experiences with Meeko and "good food" that would be a complete waste of time/food and postage.He is a crap food junkie and nothing is ever going to change his mind,sadly


----------



## bluecordelia

Just when we thought things were settling. I am awaiting my ropocat and tried animonda pouch skippy.....we had 5 runny poops. Back on rc dry n plain chicken
we will try ropo but if not the miracle food i will be offering it out . I wonder of the dense high meat n darker meat doesn't agree x


----------



## bluecordelia

Just a note on cost. I took my boy to a teaching vets cost £65 but not very clean my girl went to a chain cost£50 with 2 follow ups to see she was ok. I was wary of vets for pets but very clean,surfaces wiped and i was so pleased i used them for imms.


----------



## bluecordelia

A diet of boiled chicken thigh ....thank u Morrisons...seems to have worked wonders. Still awaiting ropocat. Hope everyone ok. The diy food is saving me a fortune.there was plain venison also but blue just chucked it about.


----------



## Cazzer

Well the news from the Vikings is that ropocat appears to be a super food for Karlo. His basic diet at moment is 80% ropocat lamb, 10% ropocat deer and 10% sensitivity control wet. No sign of any dire rear :thumbup1: He also seems to love both foods! The plan is to increase the deer and then try the chicken one, and phase out the RC. I never did hear from VC but it seems at moment they aren't needed :thumbup1::thumbup1:


----------



## nicolaa123

Wish I had good news 

Last night runs..tonight mighty explosion leading in me having to put him in the bath and wash him  was ok until I turned the shower on by mistake now I'm needing medical care  Riley was howling but it was over him I could not just wipe him he had to be washed..my poor boy is now frantically licking himself after I had dried him and seriously not happy..

The goat was going so well and he was fine on it I guess now goat is off the menu. I have just put some kangaroo down and he is refusing it asking for goat 

I don't know whether to scream or cry or scream or cry ..

I feel pretty rubbish right now as I've just caused him immense stress, he is being good and has forgiven me and we have had a cuddle but ..ok choice made its tears..

My poor boy


----------



## Cazzer

Oh Nicola Im devastated to hear this, poor you and Riley. I really thought you were onto a winner with him. Is there a chance it could be one of his blips, and that he'll be ok again. I'm sure he'll forgive you for the bath soon x x


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh Nicola Im devastated to hear this, poor you and Riley. I really thought you were onto a winner with him. Is there a chance it could be one of his blips, and that he'll be ok again. I'm sure he'll forgive you for the bath soon x x


That's the thing..I don't really know if it is the goat or a flare up..

He forgave me pretty much straight away..

Ahhhhhhrrrggggghhhhhhh


----------



## bluecordelia

Oh Nicola you poor thing. This gut thing with cats is sooo unpredictable. Yesterday blue pooped for England but today is ok. Ropocat arrived this morning so we tried chicken....both cats turned their noses up...it looks texture wise like kiwi peak which i gave away last week. l will keep trying with boiled thighs ...the cat grass i planted weeks ago hasn't bothered to germinate...it sometimes feels like a couple of sneaky steps forward and then a tumble backwards. he will forgive u the shower spray...they know how to get u...and we would try anything to make them good. i will post if chick ropo is no go and be happy to pass it on x


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Oh Nicola you poor thing. This gut thing with cats is sooo unpredictable. Yesterday blue pooped for England but today is ok. Ropocat arrived this morning so we tried chicken....both cats turned their noses up...it looks texture wise like kiwi peak which i gave away last week. l will keep trying with boiled thighs ...the cat grass i planted weeks ago hasn't bothered to germinate...it sometimes feels like a couple of sneaky steps forward and then a tumble backwards. he will forgive u the shower spray...they know how to get u...and we would try anything to make them good. i will post if chick ropo is no go and be happy to pass it on x


Thanks..I'm a bit deflated tonight that's all..it's just a very big problem if he will now not eat kangaroo and the goat is what's causing the reaction..I'm stuck for other foods as there isn't really anything I can try with him..

I'm sure it will look better in the morning..at least that's what I'm hoping..


----------



## Forester

Oh Nicola, I just don't know what to say to try to comfort you. Is there any chance that Riley may have eaten something outside which could have caused this disaster ?
It sounds strange to me that the goat which seemed to have been going so well should have caused such a dramatic problem so suddenly. Is this what usually happens when Riley reacts to something in his diet?

I have everything crossed that this is a " one off" caused by something that he has eaten without your knowledge and that he will soon be feeling better.

Sending massive (((( Hugs ))))


----------



## bluecordelia

I just checked as i bought a job lot a la del trotter. I have loads of ropo gold game. A bit of rabbit and deer. Let me know if u want any. Blue will eat plain chick n rc dry so i can send anything u thi k might work.


----------



## bluecordelia

Nicola don't know where last post went . I have checked my box...loads of ropo gold game ,a bit of rabbit n one that looks like a deer! Let me know if u want any...


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oh Nicola, I just don't know what to say to try to comfort you. Is there any chance that Riley may have eaten something outside which could have caused this disaster ?
> It sounds strange to me that the goat which seemed to have been going so well should have caused such a dramatic problem so suddenly. Is this what usually happens when Riley reacts to something in his diet?
> 
> I have everything crossed that this is a " one off" caused by something that he has eaten without your knowledge and that he will soon be feeling better.
> 
> Sending massive (((( Hugs ))))


I just don't know, that's the thing..he can react this quickly and has previously, I will see how he is over next week. If he is ok just on the kangaroo then I will know, if not then we could be in another flare up. To be honest I would prefer it to be a goat issue rather than a flare up as I'm not sure his much more his little body can take


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Nicola don't know where last post went . I have checked my box...loads of ropo gold game ,a bit of rabbit n one that looks like a deer! Let me know if u want any...


Thanks for your offer I will keep it in mind..


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I just don't know, that's the thing.... To be honest I would prefer it to be a goat issue rather than a flare up as I'm not sure his much more his little body can take


Is it possible that he's eaten something that you are unaware of, perhaps outside e.g. slugs or bread dropped by birds ? I ask this because I am fairly sure that Dylan's problem became worse after he ate some of OH's porridge.

If Riley's episode has been caused by something eaten illicitly then he could still be fine with both the kangaroo *and* goat once his system gets over what he's eaten surreptitiously.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Is it possible that he's eaten something that you are unaware of, perhaps outside e.g. slugs or bread dropped by birds ? I ask this because I am fairly sure that Dylan's problem became worse after he ate some of OH's porridge.
> 
> If Riley's episode has been caused by something eaten illicitly then he could still be fine with both the kangaroo *and* goat once his system gets over what he's eaten surreptitiously.


Could well be, I've not given up on the goat completely as he really does enjoy it, however I will just feed him kangaroo for a week to see how he goes then think again about the goat.


----------



## buffie

Just catching up with whats has been going on,so sorry to read that Riley is having "issues" again.
I'm kind of going with Forester here,the possibility of him eating/coming in contact with something outside does seem a contender.He has been okay on the goat for over a week hasn't he,seems odd to suddenly have such bad a reaction now,but ,this is IBD and I know Meeko and Riley don't stick to the rules.Hope he is back to normal soon.
Meeko has been sick the last 4 nights,nothing changed with his food,other than I am trying to drop the dry and up the wet food


----------



## bluecordelia

Ropo chicken is not a winner..its sat in the bowl ready for the bin. Looks like i need to invest in taurine and keel boiling those thighs. I don't mind but the smell is awful.


----------



## buffie

Just had Meeko at the vets ,I managed to get a U/S from him this morning and it looked like stewed tea 
I made an apt right away but his usual vet wasn't on.
The vet was also a bit concerned with the sample and gave him a long lasting a/b inj as he said although Meeko is well in himself and maintaining his weight okay it would be a brave vet who ignored the evidence in the sample.
He also gave me a renal dry food(don't all throw your hands up in horror)only to be given on the occasions when he isn't eating enough wet food.
The most wet I can get him to eat is around 150gms with added water so sometimes needs topped up with a little dry.
Unless he shows any signs of being ill ,he is in for bloods in 2 weeks.


----------



## Cazzer

Oh no Buffe sad to hear the Magnificent one isn't too good again in the wee dept. Hope the Abs does the trick and you don't have to resort to dry. Or take him back for bloods early

Nicola how are you and Riley today?

Bluecordelia the ropocat chicken is vile (according to my cats & me!). I thought I'd used it all up (mixing miamor in with it makes it more populat), but then found another 10 plus tins  Hope you didn't order a lot 

Meanwhile all going well with the cwtchy one. Have increased the amount of ropocat deer, and his fluffy trousers are still clean


----------



## buffie

I'm at a loss ,I really am.All the tests ,so far, have not shown up anything of concern,scan/xray/bladder inflated with air etc but still he has a lot of blood/protein in his urine and the sp/grav is off the scale 
The last bloods done in February were all okay .


----------



## Paddypaws

stewed tea? 
So it was dark, was it too concentrated or too dilute?
poor you!


----------



## buffie

Paddypaws said:


> stewed tea?
> So it was dark, was it too concentrated or too dilute?
> poor you!


Very dark and cloudy and too concentrated


----------



## Paddypaws

buffie said:


> Very dark and cloudy and too concentrated


He is a conundrum isn't he?


----------



## buffie

Paddypaws said:


> He is a conundrum isn't he?


You better believe it,he is a bl**dy nightmare.To look at him he seems fine :crazy:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just had Meeko at the vets ,I managed to get a U/S from him this morning and it looked like stewed tea
> I made an apt right away but his usual vet wasn't on.
> The vet was also a bit concerned with the sample and gave him a long lasting a/b inj as he said although Meeko is well in himself and maintaining his weight okay it would be a brave vet who ignored the evidence in the sample.
> He also gave me a renal dry food(don't all throw your hands up in horror)only to be given on the occasions when he isn't eating enough wet food.
> The most wet I can get him to eat is around 150gms with added water so sometimes needs topped up with a little dry.
> Unless he shows any signs of being ill ,he is in for bloods in 2 weeks.


Oh heck that doesn't sound good, think it was a good precautionary measure with the ab..hopefully he doesn't have a reaction to it..you know what they are like!?

If the dry helps then the dry helps! If there was a dry food that was guaranteed of stopping Riley's condition I would feed it in a heart beat!



Cazzer said:


> Oh no Buffe sad to hear the Magnificent one isn't too good again in the wee dept. Hope the Abs does the trick and you don't have to resort to dry. Or take him back for bloods early
> 
> Nicola how are you and Riley today?
> 
> Bluecordelia the ropocat chicken is vile (according to my cats & me!). I thought I'd used it all up (mixing miamor in with it makes it more populat), but then found another 10 plus tins  Hope you didn't order a lot
> 
> Meanwhile all going well with the cwtchy one. Have increased the amount of ropocat deer, and his fluffy trousers are still clean


He is ok in himself, apart from not happy that only kangaroo is on offer, yet to have an "offering" as yet I have every part of me crossed we don't have to repeat bath time!



buffie said:


> You better believe it,he is a bl**dy nightmare.To look at him he seems fine :crazy:


He is turning into quite a puzzle..I take it you are on wee watch


----------



## buffie

Poor Riley,if only we could explain it all to them,paws crossed that the lack of "offerings" means he has got over his "episode " :arf:

I got quite a shock when I saw the colour of his pee this morning,the weird thing is it doesn't show up in his litter as being discoloured 
I've been on "pee watch" since all this kicked off,his every moved is monitored,all pee clumps removed from tray and litter smoothed out again so that I can tell if he has been in and not pee'd.
I wont be checking it again for a few days as I dont want him getting paranoid everytime he goes to pee but it wont surprise me if the next one is clear 
The dry food is only because he doesn't eat enough wet food in a day usually so vet suggested to give him a renal specific but only if he seemed to need extra.He has maintained his weight since he was weighed 4 weeks ago ,at least I think it was 4 may have been 5 weeks ago,so I'm not as concerned that he isn't eating enough now.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Poor Riley,if only we could explain it all to them,paws crossed that the lack of "offerings" means he has got over his "episode " :arf:
> 
> I got quite a shock when I saw the colour of his pee this morning,the weird thing is it doesn't show up in his litter as being discoloured
> I've been on "pee watch" since all this kicked off,his every moved is monitored,all pee clumps removed from tray and litter smoothed out again so that I can tell if he has been in and not pee'd.
> I wont be checking it again for a few days as I dont want him getting paranoid everytime he goes to pee but it wont surprise me if the next one is clear
> The dry food is only because he doesn't eat enough wet food in a day usually so vet suggested to give him a renal specific but only if he seemed to need extra.He has maintained his weight since he was weighed 4 weeks ago ,at least I think it was 4 may have been 5 weeks ago,so I'm not as concerned that he isn't eating enough now.


The lack of offering is because not much is going in!! Thinking about it, when he was eating goat he was inhaling it as he loved it so much so maybe I was giving him too much..


----------



## Forester

Fingers crossed that the lack of " offering " from Riley is because its taking longer to go through due to " firming up ".

Sending my best " vibes " for Meeko, Karlo and Blue.

I am hopeful that I finally have a breakthrough with Dylan's vomiting. I've switched him from the Sensitivity Control to Ropocat Lamb over the course of the last week and I haven't had a single " return".  Chicken is definitely off the menu.


----------



## Cazzer

That is good news about Dylan! I can't believe I've not tried Karlo on it before now (I thought he had an issue with lamb as the Grau lamb gave him bad dire rear - I know it's got rice in it but thought he was ok with rice, given its in the RC & he's ok with Grau chicken & turkey - no one likes that much though). Also when Karlo was diagnosed with IBD it wasn't so easy to get of course.

Karlo's also ok so far with the ropocat deer, and I'm also going to try rabbit on him in a few weeks


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> *The lack of offering is because not much is going in*!! Thinking about it, when he was eating goat he was inhaling it as he loved it so much so maybe I was giving him too much..


You may have just hit on the problem  Might just have been too much of a good thing


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> You may have just hit on the problem  Might just have been too much of a good thing


Yup..but you know what it's like when they eat, you just think get as much in as possible


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Fingers crossed that the lack of " offering " from Riley is because its taking longer to go through due to " firming up ".
> 
> Sending my best " vibes " for Meeko, Karlo and Blue.
> 
> I am hopeful that I finally have a breakthrough with Dylan's vomiting. I've switched him from the Sensitivity Control to Ropocat Lamb over the course of the last week and I haven't had a single " return".  Chicken is definitely off the menu.


Paws crossed that the Ropo Cat is being accepted by Dylans tum and at last you are on the right road 



Cazzer said:


> That is good news about Dylan! I can't believe I've not tried Karlo on it before now (I thought he had an issue with lamb as the Grau lamb gave him bad dire rear - I know it's got rice in it but thought he was ok with rice, given its in the RC & he's ok with Grau chicken & turkey - no one likes that much though). Also when Karlo was diagnosed with IBD it wasn't so easy to get of course.
> 
> Karlo's also ok so far with the ropocat deer, and I'm also going to try rabbit on him in a few weeks


Looks like Ropo Cat is doing wonderful things,I just wish Mr M would stop being so bl**dy fussy


----------



## Forester

Its excellent news that Karlo is expanding his list of acceptable foods. I hope that he soon has an extensive menu choice.

It is so confusing. You think that they are o.k. with a specific ingredient because its in a food which they tolerate but then the same ingredient is not tolerated in another food. I suppose it may be a matter of proportions. The SC is only 26% chicken so I suppose causes less of a problem than 100% chicken.

I'm going to try the single cans of VC kangaroo and goat next. I do have a can of ropocat rabbit to try but will keep that back for now. He did seem to have a problem with rabbit when I bought one to feed raw.

Fingers crossed that things will soon improve for Riley and Meeko . It would be great if Nicola and Buffie could also have good news.


----------



## nicolaa123

Long may Dylan and Karlo continue to do well..hopefully Riley and Meeko will follow..

Riley has finally given in and eaten


----------



## bluecordelia

Been out this afternoon so left them ropo rabbit..it has been nibbled but mainly left so nipped to pets corner for stand by green label amore pouches plus morrisons for chicken thighs. We still have rc mc dry but are thinking a grain free version such as canagan. Shout out if you think this is ok or madness. We still have game n deer ropo but i am sure it will be the same. take care everyone....i have started a thread on litter frequency in breeding section to try to raise awareness as i think early weaning might be a factor but hey there are no easy definates with poopy cats x


----------



## buffie

Yayyyyyyy Meeko has got "dire rear" now :arf: and guess who doesn't have much Pro-kolin Paste left  
I'm assuming it is a result of the Convenia a/b but if it doesn't stop soon will phone his vet.
I have ordered a tube from Animed but not sure it will arrive in time.Was going to bite the bullet and get one from my vet but,a)they don't stock it and b) they wanted nearly £16 for a tube of Promax that costs £8:00 on line :yikes:
Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternative that I can buy from pet shop/chemist etc just in case he still has it after tomorrow as that's all the pro-kolin I have left until the new one arrives.


----------



## bluecordelia

Blob of natural yoghurt or buy off vet a couple sachets of pro kolin enterohenic powder from protexin. About £1.10 each. My vet charged £11.99 for the paste..vets 4 pets xxx
Er


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yayyyyyyy Meeko has got "dire rear" now :arf: and guess who doesn't have much Pro-kolin Paste left
> I'm assuming it is a result of the Convenia a/b but if it doesn't stop soon will phone his vet.
> I have ordered a tube from Animed but not sure it will arrive in time.Was going to bite the bullet and get one from my vet but,a)they don't stock it and b) they wanted nearly £16 for a tube of Promax that costs £8:00 on line :yikes:
> Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternative that I can buy from pet shop/chemist etc just in case he still has it after tomorrow as that's all the pro-kolin I have left until the new one arrives.


Sorry just seen this...how is he now?


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Blob of natural yoghurt or buy off vet a couple sachets of pro kolin enterohenic powder from protexin. About £1.10 each. My vet charged £11.99 for the paste..vets 4 pets xxx
> Er


Thanks for the suggestion,I forgot about the sachets,I could have asked for a couple of them from vets when I went to collect the "over priced paste" which they were told to stick where the sun don't shine .I don't normally argue costs but double the price for a non prescription med,that is taking the urine


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry just seen this...how is he now?





Cazzer said:


> Poor Meeko, hope he is ok now?


He is actually okay in himself,just doesn't like having a runny bum  . 
Has anyone got experience of convenia a/b,its a long lasting one,if it is causing his dire rear do you think it will be with him for the 14 day period of the a/b :yikes: .


----------



## Etienne

Hope Meeko bum gets better soon buffie. Sorry I am no help to you with your question


----------



## buffie

Etienne said:


> Hope Meeko bum gets better soon buffie. Sorry I am no help to you with your question


Thanks Steve,he seems okay in himself so hopefully it is just the a/bs causing a reaction,if not then off we go,again, to the vets


----------



## bluecordelia

Sorry no help about new abx. Had a quick look online and a common side effect but that's true of all abx. Some got metronodszole to help but more abx. Hope better soo. Xx


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Sorry no help about new abx. Had a quick look online and a common side effect but that's true of all abx. Some got metronodszole to help but more abx. Hope better soo. Xx


He definitely reacts to metronidazole ,vet tried them to help with his IBD but he started to scratch at his face/ears etc he seems to react to many things that cats normally wouldn't react to,even hibiscrub  He has warnings on his record . On the plus side no "dire rear" since 10 pm yesterday


----------



## Forester

Sorry, I've only just caught up with this.

I'm sorry to hear that Meeko has dire rear. Has it improved at all yet?.

Do you think that it would be worth discussing with your vet in case it has been caused by the Convenia ?. I do have experience with Convenia however that was with a *very *sick cat. I understand that it does actually stay in the system for much longer that the 14 days. Its just the antibiotic effect that lasts 14 days. If its been caused by the Convenia I think that it might be a good idea to get something prescribed to help to" firm him up".

Best wishes to all ibd cats and slaves.

By the way , I spoke to soon when I posted that Dylan was doing well with the Ropocat lamb. I've had 2 " returns " since.


----------



## bluecordelia

I tried ropocat deer with the fussy two...its still in the bowl. Only game left to try but sometimes you just know. Good news a bit of firming happening.... x


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Sorry, I've only just caught up with this.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that Meeko has dire rear. Has it improved at all yet?.
> 
> Do you think that it would be worth discussing with your vet in case it has been caused by the Convenia ?. I do have experience with Convenia however that was with a *very *sick cat. I understand that it does actually stay in the system for much longer that the 14 days. Its just the antibiotic effect that lasts 14 days. If its been caused by the Convenia I think that it might be a good idea to get something prescribed to help to" firm him up".
> 
> Best wishes to all ibd cats and slaves.
> 
> By the way , I spoke to soon when I posted that Dylan was doing well with the Ropocat lamb. I've had 2 " returns " since.


I did have a "google" about Convenia and wished I hadn't,seems many cats have had bad reactions to it ,some fatally  As you say although the a/bs only last 14 days the drug does stay in the system much longer.
He didn't have any more dire rear from 10pm lastnight but annoyingly did have another loose offering around 4 pm today but that has to be heading the right road surely.he is eating okay,not a lot but fairly normally so I would have expected more visits to the tray than just the one.
I'll give it another day or so,(unless he becomes ill) and if still loose will make yet another apt with the vet 
Sorry to read that the Ropocat lamb wasn't a success afterall


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> I tried ropocat deer with the fussy two...its still in the bowl. Only game left to try but sometimes you just know. *Good news a bit of firming happening....* x


 Spoke to soon,but 18 hours between is hopefully on the right road.
Sorry to read another Ropocat failure


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Spoke to soon,but 18 hours between is hopefully on the right road.
> Sorry to read another Ropocat failure


Had to wipe a bum tonight myself..still was only a wipe..I celebrate the odd wipe  I think I've gone cuckoo!

Please tomorrow bring no messy trousers or vomit piles.. Talking of vomit piles I found a lovely one in my bedroom yesterday just under the bed, have no idea how long it had been there but was full of fur and was hard  can't believe I missed it


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Had to wipe a bum tonight myself..still was only a wipe..I celebrate the odd wipe  I think I've gone cuckoo!
> 
> Please tomorrow bring no messy trousers or vomit piles.. Talking of vomit piles I found a lovely one in my bedroom yesterday just under the bed, have no idea how long it had been there but was full of fur and was hard  can't believe I missed it


Its at times like this I would swap Mr M for a sphinx bum washing must be a lot easier ,
I second no piles of vomit or mucky trousers :thumbsup: 
As for the dried up furball,you mucky mare,when did you hoover under the bed last


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its at times like this I would swap Mr M for a sphinx bum washing must be a lot easier ,
> I second no piles of vomit or mucky trousers :thumbsup:
> As for the dried up furball,you mucky mare,when did you hoover under the bed last


----------



## GillRuss

My vet thinks that Mya (cross breed JRT) may have ulcers, caused by anxiety.At the moment she is on two types of anti biotics and ranitidine
Is this the same as ibd/colitis. Has only been sick twice this week so an improvement. In herself she seems well and is active


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> He didn't have any more dire rear from 10pm lastnight but annoyingly did have another loose offering around 4 pm today but that has to be heading the right road surely.


That's sounding positive buffie. Lets hope that the improvement continues.

Please try not to panic about the Convenia. Remember that it is very widely used and although there are horror stories to be read we have no idea of their statistical significance. Meeko is eating so he is *definitely not*having the adverse reaction which Eric suffered from.


----------



## nicolaa123

GillRuss said:


> My vet thinks that Mya (cross breed JRT) may have ulcers, caused by anxiety.At the moment she is on two types of anti biotics and ranitidine
> Is this the same as ibd/colitis. Has only been sick twice this week so an improvement. In herself she seems well and is active


Hi..what other tests have been done and what has the history been so far? I've not read any link between ibd and ulcers but would depend I guess where the ulcers are.


----------



## buffie

GillRuss said:


> My vet thinks that Mya (cross breed JRT) may have ulcers, caused by anxiety.At the moment she is on two types of anti biotics and ranitidine
> Is this the same as ibd/colitis. Has only been sick twice this week so an improvement. In herself she seems well and is active


Hi and welcome to the "mad IBD crowd" sorry I really don't know whether there is a link between ulcers and IBD , but I think some of the treatments used to ease the symptoms of IBD and ulcers are often similar.IBD does seem to be made worse by anxiety/stress so I would think it is possible there is a connection.
As Nicola has said what tests etc have been carried out so far.


----------



## bluecordelia

I guess our monsters could have ulcers ie look at crohns n ulcerative colitis...but ib i feel is more inflamed bowel. I did a brief stint as a student nurse on a bowel ward n remember than people who had bowel issues were more incapacitated ie off feet than those who had major surgery ie cardiac. The consultant said the bowel knows it has been touched and takes longer to settle. Bit of a ramble i know but gives an idea how off ours can get. hope ulcers settle....if puss is anxious....blue def was i got a huge cat tree,a companion for her,escape route planning ,toys and walk her on a harness. Maybe we should all watch psych kitty&#55357;&#56840;. hope no dirty haunches...watch this space as ropocat game try tomorrow then i will be offloading it for boiled x


----------



## Cazzer

Hope everybody is doing ok? 

news from the cwtchy one is that Karlo is fine on both ropocat lamb and deer 
He much prefers the lamb one though. He'll only eat the deer if he thinks he is stealing it from the other cats. If I went to feed it to him even if mixed with the lamb/RC he is a bit reluctant.

normally Karlo gets fed in the bathroom and the rest of the Viking horde in the kitchen. Earlier today I was feeding the horde and my OH was feeding Karlo. I'd asked him to let Karlo out (and he forgot). I was cooking dinner so I didn't realise for a very long time. Poor Karlo must have been desperate as there was a magnificently large pile of firm poo left in the bathroom when I realised 

At least it proved he was fine on the ropocat :thumbsup: Next going to try him on ropocat rabbit.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Hope everybody is doing ok?
> 
> news from the cwtchy one is that Karlo is fine on both ropocat lamb and deer
> He much prefers the lamb one though. He'll only eat the deer if he thinks he is stealing it from the other cats. If I went to feed it to him even if mixed with the lamb/RC he is a bit reluctant.
> 
> normally Karlo gets fed in the bathroom and the rest of the Viking horde in the kitchen. Earlier today I was feeding the horde and my OH was feeding Karlo. I'd asked him to let Karlo out (and he forgot). I was cooking dinner so I didn't realise for a very long time. Poor Karlo must have been desperate as there was a magnificently large pile of firm poo left in the bathroom when I realised
> 
> At least it proved he was fine on the ropocat :thumbsup: Next going to try him on ropocat rabbit.


Great news about the ropocat :thumbsup: hope Karlo forgives you 

News from Riley..goat is off the menu  I tried introducing again and runny bum was the outcome..such a shame as he loves the flavour so so much! I'm toying with trying the hare just to see..but we will see..


----------



## Cazzer

Oh no poor Riley. Typical given he loved it so much. How enthusiastic was he going back on the kangaroo? Hope the hare is ok for him if you decide to try it.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh no poor Riley. Typical given he loved it so much. How enthusiastic was he going back on the kangaroo? Hope the hare is ok for him if you decide to try it.


He isn't impressed that the goat is now being eaten by a poorly hedgehog  but he is eating the kangaroo again, but with no where near as much gusto!


----------



## Forester

Oh Nicola, poor Riley and poor you. If only Riley's digestive system would give you both some respite from the stress of ibd. There is no justice in this world.
I'm sorry to that his menu has had to be reduced back to just kangaroo. On the plus side at least he continues to be o k with the kangaroo.

Cazzer , that's brilliant news that Karlo seems to be getting on well with the Ropocat.

I'm due to take Dylan for his booster this week so intend to discus his diet at the same time. As time goes on I'm more inclined to think that he's *not* actually suffering from a sensitivity and that his problem is caused either by acid or by him eating too quickly first thing in the morning. If the problem is sensitivity then he is sensitive to at least chicken, venison and lamb. :


----------



## Cazzer

woo hoo! Karlo is tucking into ropocat deer with a great deal of enjoyment!! I take it back about him not liking it!

Forester hope all goes well at vets! Hopefully if it is acid he can have something. I must admit Karlo's sister often makes herself sick on a evening by guzzling her found 

Lady like she isn't!


----------



## bluecordelia

Update. The last ropocat I warmed and added water. It was eaten but no real gusto. Raw turkey thighs were ok but a mixed reaction in the litter tray department. Will keep up with raw and boiled. There is no one size answer


----------



## Cloudygirl

Boo has the bum of doom. It's ages since he's had a bad bum. Like over a year since his last upset I think. The only think I can think that can have set him off is I've cut down his biscuits because he was getting enormous. He's not had any new foods lately. Maybe he needs a balance of dry to wet foods. Either that or he's pinched some food out the bin and made himself ill.

Had to clean up 2 poos on the floor and the poo on his paw poor boy. He hates being washed, he hid behind the toilet and I had a right job getting him out. Luckily I had some white fish in so I've given him a boiled fish light tea and some diar Stop (at least I still have meds in just in case) and I'll just give him fish and a small amount of his biscuits in the morning (got hardly any fish left) and if it isn't significantly better tomorrow night I'll have to go to the vet on wed morning


----------



## bluecordelia

Thanks for the post..i had tried to forget about cox n stuff after my prescribing exam. Great for us to have informed knowledge but when it hits the fan i know my mind blanks.


----------



## Cloudygirl

Bum update lol. PI was scrubbing the floor at 6 am this morning but while I was at work today he's still a bit soft but in the tray. Couldn't get in vet tomorrow but as a precaution we are going at 8am on Thursday. Thank goodness I had diar stop in the cupboard


----------



## buffie

Evening folks.
Sorry havnt been around on the thread for a while,Meeko is still having urine problems and to be honest I just upset myself more when I talk about it.Hope you understand .
He has been back at the vet again ,he is still pee'ing way too often.
The last sample seemed much better and all his bloods were fine but he has been peeing up to 6 times a day .infact Friday he pee'd in excess of 10 times(could have been steroid induced)
He has had a steroid inj on Friday to see if that might help but it didn't do much ,other than on Sunday he was back to normal but by Monday afternoon he was peeing a lot again.
Today has been no better so vet suggests we try Zylkene, I think he is at a loss as to what to try next.
If he was straining to pee/doing little drips or in and out of the tray doing nothing you would assume cystitis or worse,but he is just going without any fuss,in tray/squat/pee/and out again,although the amount he pee's isn't a lot it doesn't strike me as a dribble either 
Hope everyone is doing as well as we can hope for x


----------



## Cloudygirl

Hugs to you and headbutts to Meeko


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oh Nicola, poor Riley and poor you. If only Riley's digestive system would give you both some respite from the stress of ibd. There is no justice in this world.
> I'm sorry to that his menu has had to be reduced back to just kangaroo. On the plus side at least he continues to be o k with the kangaroo.
> 
> Cazzer , that's brilliant news that Karlo seems to be getting on well with the Ropocat.
> 
> I'm due to take Dylan for his booster this week so intend to discus his diet at the same time. As time goes on I'm more inclined to think that he's *not* actually suffering from a sensitivity and that his problem is caused either by acid or by him eating too quickly first thing in the morning. If the problem is sensitivity then he is sensitive to at least chicken, venison and lamb. :


All crossed for a good vet trip..

Riley is fine on kangaroo..came home to a nice sample in the tray 



bluecordelia said:


> Update. The last ropocat I warmed and added water. It was eaten but no real gusto. Raw turkey thighs were ok but a mixed reaction in the litter tray department. Will keep up with raw and boiled. There is no one size answer


These cats are a law unto themselves and no one size does not fit all..



Cloudygirl said:


> Bum update lol. PI was scrubbing the floor at 6 am this morning but while I was at work today he's still a bit soft but in the tray. Couldn't get in vet tomorrow but as a precaution we are going at 8am on Thursday. Thank goodness I had diar stop in the cupboard


Fingers crossed for better poo. Riley hates being cleaned but needs must!



buffie said:


> Evening folks.
> Sorry havnt been around on the thread for a while,Meeko is still having urine problems and to be honest I just upset myself more when I talk about it.Hope you understand .
> He has been back at the vet again ,he is still pee'ing way too often.
> The last sample seemed much better and all his bloods were fine but he has been peeing up to 6 times a day .infact Friday he pee'd in excess of 10 times(could have been steroid induced)
> He has had a steroid inj on Friday to see if that might help but it didn't do much ,other than on Sunday he was back to normal but by Monday afternoon he was peeing a lot again.
> Today has been no better so vet suggests we try Zylkene, I think he is at a loss as to what to try next.
> If he was straining to pee/doing little drips or in and out of the tray doing nothing you would assume cystitis or worse,but he is just going without any fuss,in tray/squat/pee/and out again,although the amount he pee's isn't a lot it doesn't strike me as a dribble either
> Hope everyone is doing as well as we can hope for x


Ah poor mr m..does sound odd, could it be a reaction to the meds? As you say he isn't straining so doesn't sound like a uti 

Will all these cats just stop with the illnesses for a while please ! :incazzato:


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> Hugs to you and headbutts to Meeko


Thank you Cloudygirl ,it really is worrying ,probably more because we cant find a reason for it .


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> All crossed for a good vet trip..
> 
> Riley is fine on kangaroo..came home to a nice sample in the tray
> 
> These cats are a law unto themselves and no one size does not fit all..
> 
> Fingers crossed for better poo. Riley hates being cleaned but needs must!
> 
> *
> Ah poor mr m..does sound odd, could it be a reaction to the meds? As you say he isn't straining so doesn't sound like a uti *
> 
> Will all these cats just stop with the illnesses for a while please ! :incazzato:


Did you read this article posted by Shoshannah...........http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/362514-recurrent-cystitis-afternoon-reading.html 
There may be a connection there , I'm fairly sure the specialist vet at the referral appointment muttered something about the blood found in his urine when they tested it possibly being connected to his IBD.
I printed it off and gave it to Meeko's vet when I picked up his Zylkene this afternoon


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Did you read this article posted by Shoshannah...........http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/362514-recurrent-cystitis-afternoon-reading.html
> There may be a connection there , I'm fairly sure the specialist vet at the referral appointment muttered something about the blood found in his urine when they tested it possibly being connected to his IBD.
> I printed it off and gave it to Meeko's vet when I picked up his Zylkene this afternoon


I will have a read..


----------



## nicolaa123

I must say I've always had a suspicion they were linked in some way..hopefully your vet will be able to do some further research


----------



## Forester

I'm sorry to hear that Meeko's pee problems are continuing. Does he seem well in himself?. Poor lad, it just seems to be one thing after another. 

Sending positive vibes for Meeko and ((( Hugs ))) for buffie, also best wishes to all other ibd'ers .

Dylan has gone 11 days without vomiting, whilst eating a mixture of sensitivity control and either Macs sensitive turkey or Ropocat poultry. The only change..... breakfast is served in 3 courses with at least 40 minutes between courses. Time consuming but who cares about that?. I can devote an extra 90 minutes in a morning to him if it means that he doesn't vomit. I hope that I haven't jeopardised possible progress by posting about it. I wasn't going to say anything about it yet but it seemed logical to do so at the same time as sending " vibes " for Meeko. Vets booked for next Thursday so that will give me a bit longer to form an opinion as to whether the current schedule is proving successful.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Meeko's pee problems are continuing. Does he seem well in himself?. Poor lad, it just seems to be one thing after another.
> 
> Sending positive vibes for Meeko and ((( Hugs ))) for buffie, also best wishes to all other ibd'ers .
> 
> Dylan has gone 11 days without vomiting, whilst eating a mixture of sensitivity control and either Macs sensitive turkey or Ropocat poultry. The only change..... breakfast is served in 3 courses with at least 40 minutes between courses. Time consuming but who cares about that?. I can devote an extra 90 minutes in a morning to him if it means that he doesn't vomit. I hope that I haven't jeopardised possible progress by posting about it. I wasn't going to say anything about it yet but it seemed logical to do so at the same time as sending " vibes " for Meeko. Vets booked for next Thursday so that will give me a bit longer to form an opinion as to whether the current schedule is proving successful.


I know what you mean about jeopardizing things I usually manage that with Meeko.
Fingers crossed something as simple as slowing down Dylans food intake works for him it would be lovely to have such an easy fix 
Hope your vet visit is a good one .


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> I know what you mean about jeopardizing things I usually manage that with Meeko.
> Fingers crossed something as simple as slowing down Dylans food intake works for him it would be lovely to have such an easy fix
> Hope your vet visit is a good one .


If a Good Fairy ever gives me three wishes I *promise *that one will be for an "easy fix " for *all *PF IBD kitties.


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Thank you Cloudygirl ,it really is worrying ,probably more because we cant find a reason for it .


 that must be awful

well the poo is stilla bit sloppy but is much less smelly and in the litter tray I on fish, biscuits and diar stop. He's started regurgitating a bit though but we are at the vets in the morning.


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> that must be awful
> 
> well the poo is stilla bit sloppy but is much less smelly and in the litter tray I on fish, biscuits and diar stop. He's started regurgitating a bit though but we are at the vets in the morning.


Poor lad ,hope the vet can sort him out,sending healing vibes his way.
If only they could tell us how they feel


----------



## Forester

How did you get on at the vets, Cloudygirl? Hoping that all went well.


----------



## nicolaa123

I have some good news  Riley's insurance renewal has come through..was dreading it as the amount of claims (especially the referral claim) new underwriters etc..

It has gone up by £1.30 per month :thumbup: I'm a happy bunny


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I have some good news  Riley's insurance renewal has come through..was dreading it as the amount of claims (especially the referral claim) new underwriters etc..
> 
> It has gone up by £1.30 per month :thumbup: I'm a happy bunny


That's good to know. I'm pleased for you.

Are you with Pet Plan?


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> That's good to know. I'm pleased for you.
> 
> Are you with Pet Plan?


I'm with sainsburys, as is understand the underwriter is now the same one pet plan use. I can honestly say I would recommend sainsburys as they have been brilliant for me, every claim paid. I call them and the advisors are always spot on and seem to actually care! :thumbup:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I have some good news  Riley's insurance renewal has come through..was dreading it as the amount of claims (especially the referral claim) new underwriters etc..
> 
> It has gone up by £1.30 per month :thumbup: I'm a happy bunny


I got Meeko's in at the beginning of the week and it has only gone up by just under £1 a month so I'm very pleased .
Pet Plan do say that they don't put up premiums if there are large claims and this proves that they don't


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I got Meeko's in at the beginning of the week and it has only gone up by just under £1 a month so I'm very pleased .
> Pet Plan do say that they don't put up premiums if there are large claims and this proves that they don't


I held off changing my phone waiting for the renewal, gave up smoking..(I was worried) now I can get a new phone and well still not smoke


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I held off changing my phone waiting for the renewal, gave up smoking..(I was worried) now I can get a new phone and well still not smoke


Now you have more money to spend on your favourite little boy  and healthier now that you have binned that evil weed


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Now you have more money to spend on your favourite little boy  and healthier now that you have binned that evil weed


Yup and Riley wants a new washing machine first


----------



## bluecordelia

Lots of love meeko...x


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yup and *Riley wants a new washing machine first *


Bet he doesn't


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Bet he doesn't




He will be getting a new scratching post to replace the bedroom one..I thought about a new bed..but he is finally (after goodness knows how long) has started using his tent one!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> He will be getting a new scratching post to replace the bedroom one..I thought about a new bed..but he is finally (after goodness knows how long) has started using his tent one!


They are a funny bunch,one thing is certain we will never work out what goes on in their furry heads


----------



## nicolaa123

Riley got his new iphone  

On a not so good note..he is hungry  starving  we all know what that means


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley got his new iphone
> 
> On a not so good note..he is hungry  starving  we all know what that means


Bugger  lets hope you are wrong , maybe he is just missing his favourite "new food"


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Bugger  lets hope you are wrong , maybe he is just missing his favourite "new food"


I'm keeping a close eye on him..


----------



## buffie

Did I mention Meeko's last urine sample is clear of blood/protein and spec gravity is now the low end of normal 
He is still peeing a bit too often although today he hasn't been quite so often and he is eating around 200g wet food a day now ,which for him is a lot.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Did I mention Meeko's last urine sample is clear of blood/protein and spec gravity is now the low end of normal
> He is still peeing a bit too often although today he hasn't been quite so often and he is eating around 200g wet food a day now ,which for him is a lot.


Now that's plenty of reasons to open a bottle 

Go Meeko..and continue :yesnod:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Now that's plenty of reasons to open a bottle
> 
> Go Meeko..and continue :yesnod:


Just hope I havnt jinxed it


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Just hope I havnt jinxed it


Well I've just cleaned a bum  :ciappa: so my worries were correct.

Not so bad to be fair, but he hissed at me  and I'm always gentle with him..mind I can't blame him really it's not nice to have poo on your bum, but as said wasn't so bad, so hopefully a one off


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Well I've just cleaned a bum  :ciappa: so my worries were correct.
> 
> Not so bad to be fair, but he hissed at me  and I'm always gentle with him..mind I can't blame him really it's not nice to have poo on your bum, but as said wasn't so bad, so hopefully a one off


Paws crossed for quiet bums


----------



## Cloudygirl

Forester said:


> How did you get on at the vets, Cloudygirl? Hoping that all went well.


Vet thinks it's just cos I've stopped his biscuits. Said I should keep with the diet as he had lost 200g since she last weighed him (and he had put on loads of weight since she last weighed him) so he had lost a fair amount. She gave him a steroid and antibiotic injection. He has still not got perfect poos but he is clearly feeling much better.

She said not to give him the diar stop because it was full of crap but I stand by it because if you'd seen the amount of poo round the house in the first two days, it did the job. Not giving it now tho obviously but I will keep it in for emergencies.

He's much better now bless him


----------



## Forester

Cloudygirl said:


> Vet thinks it's just cos I've stopped his biscuits. Said I should keep with the diet as he had lost 200g since she last weighed him (and he had put on loads of weight since she last weighed him) so he had lost a fair amount. She gave him a steroid and antibiotic injection. He has still not got perfect poos but he is clearly feeling much better.
> 
> She said not to give him the diar stop because it was full of crap but I stand by it because if you'd seen the amount of poo round the house in the first two days, it did the job. Not giving it now tho obviously but I will keep it in for emergencies.
> 
> He's much better now bless him


I'm really pleased to hear that Boo is feeling much better now, Cloudygirl. I hope that this is the end of his " episodes ".

Also hoping that everyone else's fur babies are doing well.

Dylan has been sick the last two mornings. despite me getting out of bed at 5am to give him his " first course". I will be going to the vets on Thursday armed with full details of the vet concept kangaroo and goat so that I can try to persuade her that one of these might be a better idea than the hydrolized diet which I expect her to suggest. 
I still think that stomach acid is implicated somewhere along the line. I've studied my diary and, during the last 4 months , 95% of vomiting has been before 7.30am. I read something this morning which concerns me. Apparently high protein diets can cause the stomach to produce more acid. I will feel dreadful if I've actually been unwittingly *causing* the problem by feeding what I thought was the best quality food.:sad:


----------



## Cazzer

Good news re Boo

Sorry to hear Dylan has been sick, hope he is better now

Hope Messrs Riley & Meeko and any one else I've forgotten are all ok.

News from the Vikings is that Karlo has had ropocat rabbit for first time yesterday. All was well in the fluffy pantaloon/ litter tray dept. Hopefully onto another winner :thumbup1:

So that will be ropocat deer rabbit & lamb, plus honeys chicken & lamb & nuitriment beef he can eat ok. I'm a lot happier about this than feeding him the sensivity control full time.


----------



## Forester

Well done, Karlo. Great news ! :thumbup1:

Cazzer, you will soon have quite a selection to feed which has to be good for keeping his condition under control and preventing further intolerances from developing.


----------



## nicolaa123

Great news in the food front for Karlo :thumbup1:

We are in a mini flare up (knew it by the ravenous hunger) it's a mini one so I'm loathe to start him on the metronidazole straight away as I'm hoping it will get itself under control. I will monitor over next few days and then make a decision about it. . 

Hope other cats are doing ok!!


----------



## Forester

Sending positive vibes for Riley. I have everything crossed that this is only a minor " blip ".


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I'm really pleased to hear that Boo is feeling much better now, Cloudygirl. I hope that this is the end of his " episodes ".
> 
> Also hoping that everyone else's fur babies are doing well.
> 
> Dylan has been sick the last two mornings. despite me getting out of bed at 5am to give him his " first course". I will be going to the vets on Thursday armed with full details of the vet concept kangaroo and goat so that I can try to persuade her that one of these might be a better idea than the hydrolized diet which I expect her to suggest.
> I still think that stomach acid is implicated somewhere along the line. I've studied my diary and, during the last 4 months , 95% of vomiting has been before 7.30am. I read something this morning which concerns me. Apparently high protein diets can cause the stomach to produce more acid. I will feel dreadful if I've actually been unwittingly *causing* the problem by feeding what I thought was the best quality food.:sad:


Sorry just seen this..having a back end boy (give me piles of sick any day  ) not sure I will do some reading and report back


----------



## nicolaa123

Interesting about ibo

Gastrointestinal


HTML:




Where was you reading..have had a quick google and most say switch to high protein no carb diets..ie raw!

If it helps the kangaroo is a low in fat as is the goat from memory


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Interesting about ibo
> 
> Gastrointestinal
> 
> 
> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where was you reading..have had a quick google and most say switch to high protein no carb diets..ie raw!
> 
> If it helps the kangaroo is a low in fat as is the goat from memory


I can't remember off hand where I saw the statement that high protein diets cause an increase in stomach acid. I'm not very organised in my research ( fumbling in the dark would probably describe it more accurately than " research " TBH ). I will try to find it again.

I will be going to the vets on Thursday armed with full details of the vc kangaroo and goat. Thank you *so* much for that.

Back to my *latest* theory of the stomach acid as opposed to a sensitivity. If the vet still says sensitivity then I intend to ask her how it can manifest itself in vomiting which occurs almost exclusively before 7.30 a m?. If its sensitivity why doesn't he vomit at other times.? 

I've just read your link above and found it interesting, thanks.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I can't remember off hand where I saw the statement that high protein diets cause an increase in stomach acid. I'm not very organised in my research ( fumbling in the dark would probably describe it more accurately than " research " TBH ). I will try to find it again.
> 
> I will be going to the vets on Thursday armed with full details of the vc kangaroo and goat. Thank you *so* much for that.
> 
> Back to my *latest* theory of the stomach acid as opposed to a sensitivity. If the vet still says sensitivity then I intend to ask her how it can manifest itself in vomiting which occurs almost exclusively before 7.30 a m?. If its sensitivity why doesn't he vomit at other times.?
> 
> I've just read your link above and found it interesting, thanks.


I will be interested in your vets thoughts  positive vibes fir a good vet visit xx


----------



## buffie

Evening folks,
Cloudygirl ...Glad to read tthat Boo is doing much better,paws crossed he continues.

Cazzer good news on the food front with Karlo.glad he is eating it and doing well.

Forester .Poor Dylan just when you thought you had possibly found the answer . It might be worth asking the vet if you can try Famotidine (or similar antacid).Meeko has a quarter tablet first thing in the morning 20/30 minutes before breakfast to help to control the acid and as far as I'm aware it is something which can be given long term if needed so shouldn't do any harm as a trial.Meeko used to be sick at random times of the day but now ,if he is going to be sick it is usually at night 

Nicola How is Mr R doing ,hope his mini flare-up has run out of steam and he is back to normal soon.Wouldnt it be lovely to have everyone well at the same time,just for a change.

Mr M is still doing okay has days when he pee's what was a normal amount for him and others where he pee's a bit more often but so far no struggling or litter tray hoping so hopefully it is more down to his new wet food diet than anything else.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Evening folks,
> Cloudygirl ...Glad to read tthat Boo is doing much better,paws crossed he continues.
> 
> Cazzer good news on the food front with Karlo.glad he is eating it and doing well.
> 
> Forester .Poor Dylan just when you thought you had possibly found the answer . It might be worth asking the vet if you can try Famotidine (or similar antacid).Meeko has a quarter tablet first thing in the morning 20/30 minutes before breakfast to help to control the acid and as far as I'm aware it is something which can be given long term if needed so shouldn't do any harm as a trial.Meeko used to be sick at random times of the day but now ,if he is going to be sick it is usually at night
> 
> Nicola How is Mr R doing ,hope his mini flare-up has run out of steam and he is back to normal soon.Wouldnt it be lovely to have everyone well at the same time,just for a change.
> 
> Mr M is still doing okay has days when he pee's what was a normal amount for him and others where he pee's a bit more often but so far no struggling or litter tray hoping so hopefully it is more down to his new wet food diet than anything else.


Good news for Meeko :thumbup1:

I had to do a tail wash, now his royal highness will not be cleaned with damp kitchen towel, I have to use water and my hands..oh the things I do for this boy! I deserve a medal :aureola:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news for Meeko :thumbup1:
> 
> I had to do a tail wash, now his royal highness will not be cleaned with damp kitchen towel, I have to use water and my hands..oh the things I do for this boy! I deserve a medal :aureola:


Its not a pleasant task washing flully pants under a tap either I can assure you.
The Zylkene isn't giving him a runny bum but the last little bit has been soft the last couple of times and his lordship flatly refuses to wash his own pants


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Its not a pleasant task washing flully pants under a tap either I can assure you.
> The Zylkene isn't giving him a runny bum but the last little bit has been soft the last couple of times and his lordship flatly refuses to wash his own pants


You can't really blame them tho!! That's what I think when I'm runny my hands over a s)£&;y bum :frown2:


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> It might be worth asking the vet if you can try Famotidine (or similar antacid).Meeko has a quarter tablet first thing in the morning 20/30 minutes before breakfast to help to control the acid and as far as I'm aware it is something which can be given long term if needed so shouldn't do any harm as a trial.


:thumbup1:

Thanks, buffie. I do intend to explore this possibility. TBH I had expected her to take this line when I initially consulted. I think that I mentioned that at least 85% vomiting was after the first food of the day. Now I realize that its actually 95%.

I will report back after our visit on Thursday.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> :thumbup1:
> 
> Thanks, buffie. I do intend to explore this possibility. TBH I had expected her to take this line when I initially consulted. I think that I mentioned that at least 85% vomiting was after the first food of the day. Now I realize that its actually 95%.
> 
> I will report back after our visit on Thursday.


Hope you get somewhere with this,it is such a frustrating condition,there isn't a "one size fits all" fix  Some respond to one thing and others something else ,all you can do is try to find something that helps .


----------



## Forester

This isn't the site where I initially saw an indication that high protein diets increase stomach acidity however on the second page it does back up the statement.Acid Reflux in Cats | petMD


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> This isn't the site where I initially saw an indication that high protein diets increase stomach acidity however on the second page it does back up the statement.Acid Reflux in Cats | petMD


Interesting. I see the point of low fat as easier to digest. I wonder what the definition of low protein is..


----------



## nicolaa123

Some good news ...

..no bum washing tonight!! Yay


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Some good news ...
> 
> ..no bum washing tonight!! Yay


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:..............(note to self..must get a life )


----------



## Forester

I'm pleased to hear that Riley did not require laundry facilities yesterday, long may it continue.

buffie, hopefully Meeko is just adjusting his fluid levels following a dietary change.

Fingers crossed that Boo is still improving and that Karlo is still fine with the new additions to his diet.

Dylan's vet consultation did not go as I had hoped.  
I've, probably justifiably , had my fingers slapped( not literally) for my recent experimentation with his diet, feeding schedule, feeding position etc. I have been told that I must persevere with the vet diet for much longer even if it appears to not be working. The vet states that we need to establish for sure whether the problem is being caused by a sensitivity so he is now on RC Gastro Intestinal for 6 weeks unless it causes a severe deterioration in his condition. Her view is that this is necessary before considering adding an antacid or making other changes.

I showed her the details of the vc kangaroo , goat and reindeer but she dismissed the idea of using these at present. She stated that she is unfamiliar with such diets so prefers to use the RC/Hills diets as she has used them for years and knows how they work. I felt that I couldn't really argue with that. 
She suggested that I use the goat, kangaroo etc if we establish that diet is definitely the problem. She tried to steer me towards a dry vet diet after I pointed out that the v c foods would work out at half the cost of the RC. She listened to my arguments against dry food ,- dehydration, too many carbs etc and disagreed with me. I pointed out that I would " prefer to pay for expensive water".

Nicola , You will probably be pleased to hear that she dismissed my suggestion that a high protein diet could have increased his production of stomach acid .

She did offer me the option to do, bloods, x rays, endoscopy now but I prefer to continue with the dietary manipulation for now. 

We will find a solution ....sometime......hopefully!


----------



## manyKitties

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to post an update.

First of all big thanks to nicolaa123 for recommending the Z/d prescription food here: z/d® Feline Low Sensitivity - Dry

As you might recall, one of our cats had blood in her stool on and off for about 2 years. She also has allergies in general to just the climate which causes her to scratch.

While my kitty still has allergies to the environment, I'm happy to report after about 6 months of making sure it worked, the Z/d has completely eliminated the blood for my cats stool for a half year now. We are so relieved its unreal, after trying everything from prescription to grain free, we have finally found a food that seems to not cause diarrhea/blood in her stool. I stayed up at nights worried sick and now I am greatly relieved.

I'm guessing shes just allergic to proteins or something and the hydralized really helped. I don't know, but it was an almost immediate change after we switched her to Z/D. I would say in 2 days the blood was gone.

My doctor did recommend this brand but did not recommend the Z/D for whatever reason. So thanks Nico, many many thanks.

As far as taste, she loved the Z/D. Had no problems making her eat it, guess I might of gotten lucky. She still begs for human food but we don't give in :laugh:

Thanks again to all for your advice and to big thanks to Nico again, and good luck guys.

If you have a cat with bloody/mucus stool, Try Z/d, and if your cat is refusing Z/D, maybe play a little bit of hardball and see if they will still refuse when they get really really hungry. I think the hydrolyzed protein really might work rather well


----------



## Forester

Oh, manyKitties. I'm really pleased that you have found a solution that suits your kitty.:thumbsup:

This forum is wonderful for all of the help and support so freely given. nicolaa123 *is * worth her weight in gold as are most forum members.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I'm pleased to hear that Riley did not require laundry facilities yesterday, long may it continue.
> 
> buffie, hopefully Meeko is just adjusting his fluid levels following a dietary change.
> 
> Fingers crossed that Boo is still improving and that Karlo is still fine with the new additions to his diet.
> 
> Dylan's vet consultation did not go as I had hoped.
> I've, probably justifiably , had my fingers slapped( not literally) for my recent experimentation with his diet, feeding schedule, feeding position etc. I have been told that I must persevere with the vet diet for much longer even if it appears to not be working. The vet states that we need to establish for sure whether the problem is being caused by a sensitivity so he is now on RC Gastro Intestinal for 6 weeks unless it causes a severe deterioration in his condition. Her view is that this is necessary before considering adding an antacid or making other changes.
> 
> I showed her the details of the vc kangaroo , goat and reindeer but she dismissed the idea of using these at present. She stated that she is unfamiliar with such diets so prefers to use the RC/Hills diets as she has used them for years and knows how they work. I felt that I couldn't really argue with that.
> She suggested that I use the goat, kangaroo etc if we establish that diet is definitely the problem. She tried to steer me towards a dry vet diet after I pointed out that the v c foods would work out at half the cost of the RC. She listened to my arguments against dry food ,- dehydration, too many carbs etc and disagreed with me. I pointed out that I would " prefer to pay for expensive water".
> 
> Nicola , You will probably be pleased to hear that she dismissed my suggestion that a high protein diet could have increased his production of stomach acid .
> 
> She did offer me the option to do, bloods, x rays, endoscopy now but I prefer to continue with the dietary manipulation for now.
> 
> We will find a solution ....sometime......hopefully!


There are many things that she is saying that bother me..

If she is thinking sensitivity, then how what ever be the sensitive trigger be found in feeding a food that has so many ingredients  how can using it truly solve what's going on? They are sensitivity control diets, not elimination diets!

She will be familiar with the rc/hills as that is about the level of nutritional knowledge most vets seem to have. They do little training in nutrition and unless they are willing to do their own research that is all they will suggest 

Why would you stay with something if it's not working? 

Disagreed on the dehydration  it's common sense! Well done you for putting your foot down on that one!

Why not give the antacid that could offer relief until such sensitivities are determined.

Sorry Hun, but if it was me I would be looking for a vet that is willing to be flexible and work with me on the issue, rather than a slap on the knuckles!

It's so hard as we are governed so much by vets and we so want to trust and do as they say, believe me I've been there. The difference when you get one that listens and works with you is amazing!

If she thinks it could be sensitivity I'm puzzled why she didn't choose the z/d as hydrolised protein.

It will do no long term harm for 6 weeks, but I wouldn't buy the food from the vets at their mark up. Keep going with your diary and feeding how "she" says you should feed and any prolonged vomiting I would take him back or call her and leave a message to say what is happening..


----------



## nicolaa123

manyKitties said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to post an update.
> 
> First of all big thanks to nicolaa123 for recommending the Z/d prescription food here: z/d® Feline Low Sensitivity - Dry
> 
> As you might recall, one of our cats had blood in her stool on and off for about 2 years. She also has allergies in general to just the climate which causes her to scratch.
> 
> While my kitty still has allergies to the environment, I'm happy to report after about 6 months of making sure it worked, the Z/d has completely eliminated the blood for my cats stool for a half year now. We are so relieved its unreal, after trying everything from prescription to grain free, we have finally found a food that seems to not cause diarrhea/blood in her stool. I stayed up at nights worried sick and now I am greatly relieved.
> 
> I'm guessing shes just allergic to proteins or something and the hydralized really helped. I don't know, but it was an almost immediate change after we switched her to Z/D. I would say in 2 days the blood was gone.
> 
> My doctor did recommend this brand but did not recommend the Z/D for whatever reason. So thanks Nico, many many thanks.
> 
> As far as taste, she loved the Z/D. Had no problems making her eat it, guess I might of gotten lucky. She still begs for human food but we don't give in :laugh:
> 
> Thanks again to all for your advice and to big thanks to Nico again, and good luck guys.
> 
> If you have a cat with bloody/mucus stool, Try Z/d, and if your cat is refusing Z/D, maybe play a little bit of hardball and see if they will still refuse when they get really really hungry. I think the hydrolyzed protein really might work rather well


Pleased to hear your cat is doing well, plus one in a million to eat the z/d :drool:

Hopefully you will be able to get the allergy a under control, then look at progressing the diet..:thumbsup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oh, manyKitties. I'm really pleased that you have found a solution that suits your kitty.:thumbsup:
> 
> This forum is wonderful for all of the help and support so freely given. nicolaa123 *is * worth her weight in gold as are most forum members.


 all about sharing experiences and boy has Riley given me some of them :yikes:


----------



## Forester

Oh Nicola....sigh... you can see why I felt that the vet visit was not a particularly successful one.

The vets logic in using the gastro intestinal diet, apart from it being a diet that she " knows exactly how it works and what it can do " ,her words not mine ,is that she is trying to establish whether Dylan's vomiting is caused by a sensitivity ,( in which case I can then try different diets to find out which foods he can tolerate) . If a sensitivity is not involved then more invasive investigation would be her line to take. 

She described z/d as the diet of last resort . 

I did express concern that he may be sensitive to chicken as , of everything I've tried, he was worst on the plain, cooked organic chicken . I wonder whether this may have been another reason why she tried to push the dry food as she said it was fish based ( whereas I thought that the protein had changed to duck). I was close to being entered for a competition for the most awkward client of the month at this point.

I really do wonder whether I would have been better seeing one of the junior vets. I have previously spoken to one who described my Ropocat Venison leaflet as " impressive ". I thought that I was doing the best for Dylan by seeing one of the senior partners.:

The advice given was to use the gastro intestinal for a full 6 weeks before deciding whether it has worked or not although to stop if he were ,for example ,to vomit every day for a week.

I'm taking the view that it is only 6 weeks and it is at least a wet diet. On the plus side she did only charge me for the booster and for 2 boxes of GI. She didn't charge me for the 20 minutes we spent discussing his diet.
She was aware that I would be finding a cheaper source for the GI online. I just had the 2 boxes to start him off.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oh Nicola....sigh... you can see why I felt that the vet visit was not a particularly successful one.
> 
> The vets logic in using the gastro intestinal diet, apart from it being a diet that she " knows exactly how it works and what it can do " ,her words not mine ,is that she is trying to establish whether Dylan's vomiting is caused by a sensitivity ,( in which case I can then try different diets to find out which foods he can tolerate) . If a sensitivity is not involved then more invasive investigation would be her line to take.
> 
> She described z/d as the diet of last resort .
> 
> I did express concern that he may be sensitive to chicken as , of everything I've tried, he was worst on the plain, cooked organic chicken . I wonder whether this may have been another reason why she tried to push the dry food as she said it was fish based ( whereas I thought that the protein had changed to duck). I was close to being entered for a competition for the most awkward client of the month at this point.
> 
> I really do wonder whether I would have been better seeing one of the junior vets. I have previously spoken to one who described my Ropocat Venison leaflet as " impressive ". I thought that I was doing the best for Dylan by seeing one of the senior partners.:
> 
> The advice given was to use the gastro intestinal for a full 6 weeks before deciding whether it has worked or not although to stop if he were ,for example ,to vomit every day for a week.
> 
> I'm taking the view that it is only 6 weeks and it is at least a wet diet. On the plus side she did only charge me for the booster and for 2 boxes of GI. She didn't charge me for the 20 minutes we spent discussing his diet.
> She was aware that I would be finding a cheaper source for the GI online. I just had the 2 boxes to start him off.


It is hard and I am so pleased my vet will research with me rather than just dismiss and just put her own views across. I feel for you I really do as I went through a few vets before the "one" 

Try for the six weeks and see what happens, then if no improvement or gets worse ask to see another vet x


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Try for the six weeks and see what happens, then if no improvement or gets worse ask to see another vet x


Our thoughts are not too far apart.


----------



## buffie

Forester so sorry your vet visit didn't go as well as you hoped.It is really frustrating to keep going over the same ground visit after visit.
Like Nicola I seem to be lucky in having a vet who is willing to listen and discuss treatment options,it makes a big difference when you feel you are being included in the treatment .
If you don't feel you are getting any closer to a diagnosis soon,it may be time to consider asking for a referral to a specialist , not that I found Meeko's referral to the "Royal Dick Vet School very helpful ". Good luck with the food trial .


----------



## Cloudygirl

Boo seems much better again now. Still a bit soft but no toilet carnage which is good and he also seems a much happier puss. 

I also went through several vets before finding one I liked who didn't just try to shove dried food down him. Hugs to all of you with poorly puss cats.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Boo seems much better again now. Still a bit soft but no toilet carnage which is good and he also seems a much happier puss.
> 
> I also went through several vets before finding one I liked who didn't just try to shove dried food down him. Hugs to all of you with poorly puss cats.


Needle in a vet practise 

Pleased to read boo's offerings are improved :thumbsup:

Oh and second nite of no bum washing :thumbsup:


----------



## Forester

Thanks, buffie.
I know that some of the ground that's being gone over again is my own fault. . I didn't feel that we were taking the best approach, I wanted to try an elimination diet at the outset whereas the vet's approach was to look for evidence of a sensitivity *before* trying an elimination diet. TBH on the first visit she didn't want to do an elimination diet at all. The approach was " if the sensitivity control works then job done" whereas my aim is find out which food or foods are causing the problem , assuming that it is a sensitivity issue.

I agree with the vet that my attempts to identify another cause when the Sensitivity Control didn't seem to be working has caused us to go around in circles and find out nothing. I've made so many changes that we now have no idea where we are. I feel that I *must* stick with this GI diet for the 6 weeks. At the end of that, or before if his vomiting increases dramatically, then I will re evaluate.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Thanks, buffie.
> I know that some of the ground that's being gone over again is my own fault. . I didn't feel that we were taking the best approach, I wanted to try an elimination diet at the outset whereas the vet's approach was to look for evidence of a sensitivity *before* trying an elimination diet. TBH on the first visit she didn't want to do an elimination diet at all. The approach was " if the sensitivity control works then job done" whereas my aim is find out which food or foods are causing the problem , assuming that it is a sensitivity issue.
> 
> I agree with the vet that my attempts to identify another cause when the Sensitivity Control didn't seem to be working has caused us to go around in circles and find out nothing. I've made so many changes that we now have no idea where we are. I feel that I *must* stick with this GI diet for the 6 weeks. At the end of that, or before if his vomiting increases dramatically, then I will re evaluate.


Oh Hun you are doing the best you can do and absolutely carry on with the trial. We are guided by our vets..however there is nothing wrong at all with trying another vet at the practise.

If I ever move or my vet does there will be an interview process before I find another one


----------



## Cloudygirl

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh Hun you are doing the best you can do and absolutely carry on with the trial. We are guided by our vets..however there is nothing wrong at all with trying another vet at the practise.
> 
> If I ever move or my vet does there will be an interview process before I find another one


I'm really lucky as the one I found is really close to my house I can walk them there. But I did essentially interview them. I rang up and asked to come in, got a tour of the facilities and met the vet.

When I first got Boo and he was really poorly I took him to a local chain vet who told me to feed him dried food, was really dismissive and gave him injections without even telling me what they were before they were administered.

I was so unhappy that I took him back to the vet he had been at before I had him who did his vaccinations even though it was miles and miles away from where I live. They fortunately took it much more seriously and diagnosed parasites and gave me course of treatment which did work. The difference in his weight and appearance (he has always been a large framed cat but he was very skinny then) within a month was amazing. I think that if I hadn't taken him elsewhere he might even have died. He is now the fat one. I only moved from that vet because of distance.

He is fine now most of the time but even the smallest change in diet sets him off when it doesn't upset Jimby at all. My current vet just thinks he gets easily upset and so I need to be very careful with diet changes etc.

Don't feel bad if you do decide to see another vet. You are trying to do the best by your cat. Hopefully the diet you are doing at the moment will give you a. Good result.

I had to give him a bit of a clean on Monday but nothing since. Not wiping bums and paws is always good. Jimby would let me do things like that but Boo hates being picked up so it stresses him out.


----------



## buffie

Cloudygirl said:


> Boo seems much better again now. Still a bit soft but no toilet carnage which is good and he also seems a much happier puss.
> 
> I also went through several vets before finding one I liked who didn't just try to shove dried food down him. Hugs to all of you with poorly puss cats.


Good to read that Boo seems much better,long may it continue :thumbsup:


----------



## Cloudygirl

buffie said:


> Good to read that Boo seems much better,long may it continue :thumbsup:


I hope so too he is sat next to me purring right now. Much better than his time last week when he ran away whenever I came near him as he was associating me with bum cleaning and the V.E.T


----------



## Cloudygirl

Guess who was caught in the bin today so is bound to have a bad bum again


----------



## Forester

Cloudygirl said:


> Guess who was caught in the bin today so is bound to have a bad bum again


I wish that we had an " offer condolence " button as well as the " like " button.


----------



## Cloudygirl

Forester said:


> I wish that we had an " offer condolence " button as well as the " like " button.


Well so far nothing out of the litter tray but wow his poop is that stinky I had to leave the back door open for 1 1/2 hrs last night


----------



## Cloudygirl

Guess who pooped all over the floor!!! He knows he's not my favourite puss this morning!!


----------



## Forester

Cloudygirl said:


> Guess who pooped all over the floor!!! He knows he's not my favourite puss this morning!!


Poor Boo and poor you for having to clear it up.

I hope that whatever he ate from the bin has fully progressed through his system and has not caused any exacerbation of his symptoms. If only they could realise the consequences of their actions.

Best wishes and positive vibes to all ibd slaves and kitties .

Dylan LOVES the gastro intestinal vet diet though he does seem to need more of it. 4 pouches yesterday and he was still indicating that he was "starving" last night . I suppose that the increased requirements shouldn't be a surprise. Its only 7.6 % protein whereas he is used to 11 or 12%. All the fillers were illustrated this morning by the most enormous poo I've ever seen . Never mind, only 5 weeks, 5 days to go. Not that I'm counting Luckily no vomit so far.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> Guess who pooped all over the floor!!! He knows he's not my favourite puss this morning!!


Oh no! If only they knew that eating such things causes upset tums!



Forester said:


> Poor Boo and poor you for having to clear it up.
> 
> I hope that whatever he ate from the bin has fully progressed through his system and has not caused any exacerbation of his symptoms. If only they could realise the consequences of their actions.
> 
> Best wishes and positive vibes to all ibd slaves and kitties .
> 
> Dylan LOVES the gastro intestinal vet diet though he does seem to need more of it. 4 pouches yesterday and he was still indicating that he was "starving" last night . I suppose that the increased requirements shouldn't be a surprise. Its only 7.6 % protein whereas he is used to 11 or 12%. All the fillers were illustrated this morning by the most enormous poo I've ever seen . Never mind, only 5 weeks, 5 days to go. Not that I'm counting Luckily no vomit so far.


That's good he likes it! Also good no vomiting..

Have you looked at animed direct website, when Riley was on I/d I found them the cheapest and were very reliable..

Oh and I've had to wash a bum this afternoon..nothing major but was hoping to report tonight of good news!


----------



## Cazzer

Oh dear seems to be a lot of bum washing. Not had to do that here, but did have a fur ball with lots of sick


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Oh dear seems to be a lot of bum washing. Not had to do that here, but did have a fur ball with lots of sick


Oh no! Hopefully a one off!


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Have you looked at animed direct website, when Riley was on I/d I found them the cheapest and were very reliable..


Thanks Nicola, I ordered 8 boxes from them yesterday and expect delivery before my current supplies run out. 

Sorry that you've had more bum washing and that Cazzer has also had to do some " clearing up".

I've been " lucky"  recently in that Dylan has taken to watching the birds on the feeder outside the kitchen window after breakfast. Several times he has turned around resulting in the " returns" ending up in the sink. I know that its only co-incidence but it has been helpful.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Thanks Nicola, I ordered 8 boxes from them yesterday and expect delivery before my current supplies run out.
> 
> Sorry that you've had more bum washing and that Cazzer has also had to do some " clearing up".
> 
> I've been " lucky"  recently in that Dylan has taken to watching the birds on the feeder outside the kitchen window after breakfast. Several times he has turned around resulting in the " returns" ending up in the sink. I know that its only co-incidence but it has been helpful.


That's very good of Dylan  when Riley was very sick and was throwing up a lot he always tried to make it to his litter tray to be sick in there. That was a horrible time (and nearly had the overnight stay at the vets) was awful to watch his poor body retch 

Come on ibd cats lets try and co-ordinate that we are well please!


----------



## Cloudygirl

He seems ok tonight just has the smelliest trumps in the world.

I'm vegetarian so I don't see what is with the need to go in my bin


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Count me in!

Have to wait until October though, rubbish!


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> Count me in!
> 
> Have to wait until October though, rubbish!


How exciting!!


----------



## buffie

Hope everyone is as well as can be expected , all still well here with Mr M.
Limited vomiting,mainly fur . and still eating his "wet only" diet 
Did a home urine test and no blood/protein and spec gravity 1.025 which I think is low end of normal,so fingers crossed we are over the plumbing problem.
U/S in to vet Monday/Tuesday so will see if my home diagnostics are right.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> How exciting!!


He he he I know, I'm a loser!


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hope everyone is as well as can be expected , all still well here with Mr M.
> Limited vomiting,mainly fur . and still eating his "wet only" diet
> Did a home urine test and no blood/protein and spec gravity 1.025 which I think is low end of normal,so fingers crossed we are over the plumbing problem.
> U/S in to vet Monday/Tuesday so will see if my home diagnostics are right.


Pleased all is still good with Meeko..long may it continue!

Riley has been fine tonight appetite normal and not sure I've mentioned this before or my thoughts on it. I've noticed a connection to aggression and flare ups. When he starts to have one he gets quite aggressive, scratching and biting. Not hard biting but he gets that wild look, I'm thinking he is in pain and that's a way he shows it. I hold him and talk softly until he calms which helps or I have to leave the house if it's particularly bad! I'm so in tune to him now it's quite odd!



Shoshannah said:


> He he he I know, I'm a loser!


If you are so am I!!!! I've marked it on my calendar


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased all is still good with Meeko..long may it continue!
> 
> Riley has been fine tonight appetite normal and not sure I've mentioned this before or my thoughts on it. *I've noticed a connection to aggression and flare ups. * When he starts to have one he gets quite aggressive, scratching and biting. Not hard biting but he gets that wild look, I'm thinking he is in pain and that's a way he shows it. I hold him and talk softly until he calms which helps or I have to leave the house if it's particularly bad! I'm so in tune to him now it's quite odd!
> 
> If you are so am I!!!! I've marked it on my calendar


Good that Riley has been fine tonight ,I can relate to your "aggression" connection.
Meeko is a nippy lad at the best of times but even he is "more nippy" if he is having a "flare up" ,I think it is all so confusing for them.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good that Riley has been fine tonight ,I can relate to your "aggression" connection.
> Meeko is a nippy lad at the best of times but even he is "more nippy" if he is having a "flare up" ,I think it is all so confusing for them.


Yeah..they can't help it poor cats


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Yeah..they can't help it poor cats


Not letting Mr M read that comment  or he will use it to his advantage


----------



## Cloudygirl

My Boo gets more jumpy and scared when he has a bad tum  he's feeling miserable at the moment I can tell


----------



## Forester

Shoshannah said:


> Count me in!
> 
> Have to wait until October though, rubbish!


Aww Shosh, It will be great to hear your feedback.


----------



## nicolaa123

Cloudygirl said:


> My Boo gets more jumpy and scared when he has a bad tum  he's feeling miserable at the moment I can tell


Poor boo, hope he is feeling better now



Forester said:


> Aww Shosh, It will be great to hear your feedback.


Wouldn't it just


----------



## Forester

I have fingers crossed that Meeko's u/s today gives no cause for further concern and am pleased that Riley's tummy seems to have settled.

I'm going to be watching Dylan's demeanour closely from now on to see if I can see any change when he's vomiting more often ( although desperately hoping that I never have to witness it again ). I have never seen him bite , scratch or show the slightest sign of aggression. He will even tap spiders very, very gently to check whether they are still alive, ...before eating them .


----------



## buffie

At last I have good news,well for the time being anyway,Mr M is quite good at b*ggering up my joy but here goes.
Urine sample collected and handed in to vet,results.............No blood all other readings well within normal range and spec grav still low end of normal, so for the time being he has been signed off with me just testing at home.
Still no further forward in knowing what caused the blood/cloudy urine but hopefully it is sorted now.As for his frequency unless there are any concerns it has been put down to "wet only diet" with added water.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> At last I have good news,well for the time being anyway,Mr M is quite good at b*ggering up my joy but here goes.
> Urine sample collected and handed in to vet,results.............No blood all other readings well within normal range and spec grav still low end of normal, so for the time being he has been signed off with me just testing at home.
> Still no further forward in knowing what caused the blood/cloudy urine but hopefully it is sorted now.As for his frequency unless there are any concerns it has been put down to "wet only diet" with added water.


Brilliant news!!!!

Am so happy for you  and for Meeko


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Brilliant news!!!!
> 
> Am so happy for you  and for Meeko


Now all we have to do is keep it that way ,We compared "results" and my readings from the urine dip stick were close to the vet readings so I will be able to monitor,fairly accurately at home.


----------



## Forester

That's excellent news ,buffie. I'm so pleased for you.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> That's excellent news ,buffie. I'm so pleased for you.


Thanks  now I just have to keep him well


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Thanks  now I just have to keep him well


Fingers crossed for you, and Meeko.


----------



## bluecordelia

Blue meows rather than her chirp and runs about before a bad poopy poo. I think its gas/wind build up!


----------



## Cazzer

Sorry not been around for a while. Hope everyone is doing ok! Good news about Mr Meeko Buffie! Not been feeling too good myself so been offline for a while. Today however I have been to bristol university vets school open day for Bristol cat owners. I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed the day. Sad that I am the talk I enjoyed the most was the talk on poo for obvious reasons!

Anyway the guy that did the talk said that cats are not like dogs & humans when it comes to fecal samples that he has analysed. In dogs/humans the good bacteria are lactobacillus, bifodobacteria and streptoccocus. However in a healthy cat the levels of these bacteria are quite low. The good bacteria in healthy cats is fusobacteria. Anyway the way to get more fusobacteria into the cats diet is to give it more wet food! He went onto say that his study is going to look at raw food, as this was even better, although he said this was controversial for some!

Unfortunately didn't get a chance to ask him any questions, as we were running late. I was hoping he would be there to speak to afterwards but out of all the speakers he was the only one who didn't hang around. It was filmed though so I guess it might be put on their website or YouTube.


----------



## buffie

Cazzer said:


> Sorry not been around for a while. Hope everyone is doing ok! Good news about Mr Meeko Buffie! Not been feeling too good myself so been offline for a while. Today however I have been to bristol university vets school open day for Bristol cat owners. I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed the day. Sad that I am the talk I enjoyed the most was the talk on poo for obvious reasons!
> 
> Anyway the guy that did the talk said that cats are not like dogs & humans when it comes to fecal samples that he has analysed. In dogs/humans the good bacteria are lactobacillus, bifodobacteria and streptoccocus. However in a healthy cat the levels of these bacteria are quite low. The good bacteria in healthy cats is fusobacteria. Anyway the way to get more fusobacteria into the cats diet is to give it more wet food! He went onto say that his study is going to look at raw food, as this was even better, although he said this was controversial for some!
> 
> Unfortunately didn't get a chance to ask him any questions, as we were running late. I was hoping he would be there to speak to afterwards but out of all the speakers he was the only one who didn't hang around. It was filmed though so I guess it might be put on their website or YouTube.


Sorry to read that you have not been keeping so well lately,hope you are on the mend now.
Isnt it sad the things we slaves find interesting :smilewinkgrin: 
A couple of years ago I wouldn't have believed that I would be researching/reading /sharing experiences of the internal workings of the cat 
Sounds as though the "open day" was very informative,it is a pity you didn't get a chance to ask questions


----------



## Forester

Thanks for that feedback Cazzer. I'm sorry that you haven't been well and hope that you will soon be feeling much better.

I'm glad to hear that the vet school in Bristol is appreciative of the benefits of feeding " wet" and "raw" rather than extoling the" virtues " of " dry".

You've given me an idea. My vet has been trying to get me to feed Dylan on a dry gastrointestinal diet ( which I refused to do!)The vet's practice have 2 new young vets who have recently qualified from Bristol so I'm wondering whether I might be better off asking to see one of them , rather than the senior partner, when we report back after the 6 weeks on the GI diet. Incidently, we've had 9 days on the RC gastrointestinal diet so far with *no* vomiting. Fingers crossed that it continues.


----------



## Cazzer

Thanks am feeling a lot better now Forester! I was quite heartened by the comments re dry to be honest in general. The Bristol cats study is also looking at feline obesity and the two over riding factors they have seen in the obese cats in the study are the use of dry foods and being indoor cats. They did say though as yet the study hasn't been going for long and they may discover other factors as well.

The other thing that came out was the recommendation to neuter at 4 months rather than 6 (or even earlier). One member in the audience was a vet nurse and she said two vets at her practice will EN but that the others are frightened to do it, in part due to the threat of litigation


----------



## nicolaa123

Cazzer said:


> Sorry not been around for a while. Hope everyone is doing ok! Good news about Mr Meeko Buffie! Not been feeling too good myself so been offline for a while. Today however I have been to bristol university vets school open day for Bristol cat owners. I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed the day. Sad that I am the talk I enjoyed the most was the talk on poo for obvious reasons!
> 
> Anyway the guy that did the talk said that cats are not like dogs & humans when it comes to fecal samples that he has analysed. In dogs/humans the good bacteria are lactobacillus, bifodobacteria and streptoccocus. However in a healthy cat the levels of these bacteria are quite low. The good bacteria in healthy cats is fusobacteria. Anyway the way to get more fusobacteria into the cats diet is to give it more wet food! He went onto say that his study is going to look at raw food, as this was even better, although he said this was controversial for some!
> 
> Unfortunately didn't get a chance to ask him any questions, as we were running late. I was hoping he would be there to speak to afterwards but out of all the speakers he was the only one who didn't hang around. It was filmed though so I guess it might be put on their website or YouTube.


Looking forward to your full report 

Hope you feeling better soon Hun xx


----------



## Cazzer

This is the link to the poo sample update given at the Bristol Cats Open day!


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone. Bluey has been poopy loose ...upto 4times a day. Great in herself and also turning her nose up to boiled chicken. The addition of fellini could be the reason but we have a breakthrough as I got her a deep empty litter which she seems happy to use and have rinsed out. Just when you think things are going ok..


----------



## Forester

I'm sorry to hear that Blue has suffered a setback, Bluecordelia. 

I'm afraid that I don't have any advice to offer as Dylan's problems have all been at the front end however I wanted to send positive vibes your way.

G I issues are so frustrating, just when you think that you have things sorted or at least know how to sort them something else goes wrong.

Here's hoping that the recent lack of activity on this thread means that everyone's kitties are doing well.

Dylan is still on the G I vet diet and is almost 4 weeks into the promised 6 week course. We've had 3 vomits but I'm sure that I've identified that, on this food at least , his vomiting is related to the length of time since the previous meal. I've bought an automatic feeder so that I can feed him a small breakfast at 4.30 or 5am as he definitely seems much, much better when he is fed at this time. I failed to set the feeder correctly on Saturday night :nonod: and ,sure enough, Dylan was sick on Sunday morning. I intend to request a trial of an antacid ( for the third time ) when I go back to the vets. If she won't prescribe one or doesn't seem happy with the 5am feed then I will ask to see another vet. She maintains that feeding " wet " I should only be feeding twice a day. I'm feeding 5 or 6 times, as he's better that way but keeping quiet about it.:devil:


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry, been quiet here.. Riley is still up and down we had a bad day yesterday, poor boy but much better today!

I'm finding adding boiled water to his food is helping with his sore bum and that has calmed down, we are getting about two episodes a week which isn't bad enough for me to start the metronidazole again, but needless to say he is being monitored..

Weight check later this month.. 

Hope others are doing better :/


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia
Sorry to read that Blue hasn't been doing so well.


Forester, sounds as though you are getting somewhere with Dylan at last .
No idea why your vet would think that you should only feed twice a day when feeding wet food,what a load of rubbish.
If Dylan does better on 5/6 meals a day then that is what is best for him.Meeko has at least 4 wet meals a day and also is left another for over night.
I found the same as you that small ,frequent meals helped to limit the vomiting.As for the antacid,as it does no harm,I don't see any reason for your vet to refuse,it may be that it has no effect but how will you know if you don't give it a try.

Nicola sorry to read that Riley has been a bit up and down fingers crossed it is just a blip and he will be back to normal soon.

Meeko is still doing really well,hardly any vomiting worth mentioning (2 weeks on thursday since his last episode)No more dire rear and plumbing seems fine(need to do a u/s soon)
Eating well,wet only and seems to be happy on it so paws crossed this continues for a while


----------



## Forester

Its great to hear that Meeko is doing well and enjoying a wet diet.:thumbsup: I hope that his u/s will be clear of any nasties.

Nicola, sorry that Riley is not as well as he could be. Fingers crossed that he will have maintained, or maybe even have gained weight.

" Firming" vibes being sent for Blue and best wishes to anyone not yet mentioned.

Buffie. My vet is aware that I am feeding 4 meals daily. I am , its just that breakfast is split into 3 " courses . She was O K with the 4 meals, just recommended that I only feed twice. Remember, this is the vet who disagreed that feeding dry food causes a state of semi dehydration and also disputed that dry food is implicated in a proportion feline diabetes cases. Her view is that the 2 major causes of feline diabetes are being overweight and being indoor.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Its great to hear that Meeko is doing well and enjoying a wet diet.:thumbsup: I hope that his u/s will be clear of any nasties.
> 
> Nicola, sorry that Riley is not as well as he could be. Fingers crossed that he will have maintained, or maybe even have gained weight.
> 
> " Firming" vibes being sent for Blue and best wishes to anyone not yet mentioned.
> 
> Buffie. My vet is aware that I am feeding 4 meals daily. I am , its just that breakfast is split into 3 " courses . She was O K with the 4 meals, just recommended that I only feed twice. *Remember, this is the vet who disagreed that feeding dry food causes a state of semi dehydration and also disputed that dry food is implicated in a proportion feline diabetes cases*. Her view is that the 2 major causes of feline diabetes are being overweight and being indoor.


Hmm maybe she needs to go on a "nutrition course"  
As no other possible cause has been found for Meeko's urine problems it is thought that the dry food in his diet,which only amounted to under half his daily food ,was most likely the cause as he was not drinking enough water.
He had very concentrated urine which could have been irritating his bladder,as already said he is now on wet only and the problems have gone,well hopefully .


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## bluecordelia

Thanks everyone...will let you know when we are formed up x


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## catslovelycats

I think my kitten has colitis. Unfortunately the vet hasn't found a medication that will help it. She's on Royal Canin Sensitivity (or she was until she refused to eat today). I am desperate and don't know what to do for her. She's only 12 weeks old. Her loos seemed to improve (slightly) for a few days. I don't know why as nothing had changed in diet/meds etc. 
She won't eat freshly poached chicken and I've tried mashing some sweet potato in her food etc. Anyone got any tips of what I can do for her before we go back to the vet tomorrow morning please???
Thanks


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## nicolaa123

catslovelycats said:


> I think my kitten has colitis. Unfortunately the vet hasn't found a medication that will help it. She's on Royal Canin Sensitivity (or she was until she refused to eat today). I am desperate and don't know what to do for her. She's only 12 weeks old. Her loos seemed to improve (slightly) for a few days. I don't know why as nothing had changed in diet/meds etc.
> She won't eat freshly poached chicken and I've tried mashing some sweet potato in her food etc. Anyone got any tips of what I can do for her before we go back to the vet tomorrow morning please???
> Thanks


Hi..has your cat had a stool sample? If not that is where I would start and make sure they test for everything ie a 3 day pooled sample including TF.

What has your vet tried with regards to tests and meds?


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## catslovelycats

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi..has your cat had a stool sample? If not that is where I would start and make sure they test for everything ie a 3 day pooled sample including TF.
> 
> What has your vet tried with regards to tests and meds?


I know she's been given metronidazole. There was another one too which also didn't work. I don't know what it was. As well as panacur. I'm on my 2nd day of collecting samples.


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## nicolaa123

catslovelycats said:


> I know she's been given metronidazole. There was another one too which also didn't work. I don't know what it was. As well as panacur. I'm on my 2nd day of collecting samples.


You are better to collect samples when not on Meds as they can mask results. How long was the course of metronidazole ?


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## catslovelycats

nicolaa123 said:


> You are better to collect samples when not on Meds as they can mask results. How long was the course of metronidazole ?


Yes. I had to wait until yesterday to be able to start collecting them.


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## catslovelycats

OK. A bit of an update. Another horrid loo overnight but she is up and about (albeit not rushing around like a loony). I've managed to get her to eat a small bit of watered down Nature's Menu - I've read a lot about probs being caused by intolerance to grain so thought I'd try a couple of pouches.
The 'breeder' has now told me that she WASN'T eating the whiskas food that she had originally said she ate, and that Imogen only ate the RC Maine Coon food that she fed their coon.
Assuming that is correct, and the fact the breeder says Im had no diet probs at her house, does anyone know if putting her on MC diet might clear things up? I would have thought dried food probably wouldn't help, but some of you have a lot of experience in this and might have an idea.
Thanks


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## nicolaa123

How long have you had Imogen now? It is better to keep the original diet then make other food introductions very slowly.


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## catslovelycats

I'm now entering the 4th week of having Imogen. The vet took my poo sample this AM and gave Immy a B12 injection. She said keep her on RC sensitivity even if it means she won't eat sometimes. I've got to give her panacur again for 10 days this time and we are trying pro kalin. She now weighs 1.12kg. Still small but at least she's putting on a bit of weight. Vet is hopeful well resolve this but thinks its a long haul job. Vet also confirmed what I had suspected: that Immy isn't Persian cross and looks more like Maine coon (interestingly the 'bred dee' had a Maine coon in the house and Immys mum was apparently out, so I didn't get to see her.


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## nicolaa123

So not a registered breeder then? See what comes back from the stool samples, what are they testing for? I always ask for a print out of results so I can keep them as a record, plus I tend to forget when I'm in the vets as head some times goes to mush!

What does the poo look like when she has been (sorry)  any blood or mucus? Did the "breeder" worm her as a kitten? You say she is 12 weeks old and had her for 3 weeks? So she was 9 weeks when you got her? I doubt she has been wormed, so internal parasites could be what's causing this. Be interesting what the poo comes back with..

Hang on in there, hopefully it's just a case of internal parasites that can be treated..


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## catslovelycats

nicolaa123 said:


> So not a registered breeder then? See what comes back from the stool samples, what are they testing for? I always ask for a print out of results so I can keep them as a record, plus I tend to forget when I'm in the vets as head some times goes to mush!
> 
> What does the poo look like when she has been (sorry)  any blood or mucus? Did the "breeder" worm her as a kitten? You say she is 12 weeks old and had her for 3 weeks? So she was 9 weeks when you got her? I doubt she has been wormed, so internal parasites could be what's causing this. Be interesting what the poo comes back with..
> 
> Hang on in there, hopefully it's just a case of internal parasites that can be treated..


Thanks. No it isn't a registered breeder. Just someone on Gumtree. :eek6: She said she had been wormed, but vet said to do it again anyway. NOw we're doing it a third time... Her poo is the most disgusting I've ever seen. Mucus and some blood. A few poos haven't had obvious mucus but most have and the smell is just gross. :sad:

I can't remember the tests but there are 3 that she is doing. And she is phoning me as the results come in.


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## nicolaa123

Argggkkkk Riley isn't well..last couple of days not great in the poo department, but was waiting it out..tonight he had no interest in going out and is on the bed in a haunched up position..I've given him a hot water bottle wrapped up in case his tummy hurts..I will see how he is over night, we are due at vets anyway for weight check up soon..he has been ok for a while..just hope this isn't a sign of bad times ahead


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Argggkkkk Riley isn't well..last couple of days not great in the poo department, but was waiting it out..tonight he had no interest in going out and is on the bed in a haunched up position..I've given him a hot water bottle wrapped up in case his tummy hurts..I will see how he is over night, we are due at vets anyway for weight check up soon..he has been ok for a while..just hope this isn't a sign of bad times ahead


Sorry to read this Nicola ,poor Riley ,hope he is feeling better soon.
Its such a disappointment when they have been doing well and then suddenly things take a step backwards 
Big shovel full of healing vibes for the gorgeous boy on their way xx.


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## catfan

Hello. I'm very sorry Riley is unwell again.

I need to join ibd club.

Mog has what's deemed a mild case of ibd so far. Chronic vomiting and constipation. I had been taking her to a really rubbish vet so changed to a better practice. 

One of the reasons I picked the practice is because on their website they advise against dry food for cats and give the usual reasons.

The vet spent a long time with me and Mog and advised dry food...

There is a sensible reason for this. When I adopted her at the end of October last year she was on purina one dry biscuits exclusively. I gradually tried to wean her off them. (for the usual reasons). And she didn't actually start being sick until I'd cut them right down. 

She didn't take to wet food very well and only really liked gourmet perle which turned out to be bad for her. I tried rc sensitive wet (not the 'control' prescription one) and jwb wet - still threw up on both of those. She wouldn't eat the single protein ones (except for integra kangaroo sometimes) even when introduced very slowly.

I also tried cooked turkey thigh/chicken thigh with premixes. Felini made her throw up. Tc feline seemed OK for a bit but she got problems again in hairball season. And as she wasn't eating raw but cooked I was worried it wasn't properly complete and started adding raw egg yolk. So I may have had too many things going on. (I was also giving her sanofor for her constipation (which worked well for quite a while but then didn't) mixed in with a little tuna to get her to eat it).

The only thing I was absolutely sure she wouldn't vomit on was white fish and pure chicken breast (both cooked). So the vet said I can give her those and start her on purina one dry again. So I have. I am gradually reintroducing it along with her (non-complete) white fish/chicken diet. It's only been a few days but so far no vomiting. She is on miralax for constipation though (the vet had never heard of it but is happy for me to use it for now - hoping it can be resolved via diet though).

So it goes against the grain to be feeding her dry - especially a lower quality dry - but I feel out of options. She won't eat raw (or will only a tiny bit). I'd been giving her chicken bone broth for a couple of weeks (as described on the feline nutrition website) but no joy.

Although the practice advise against dry food I'm not sure the particular (more junior) vet I saw is so against it personally. (although she knows the arguments - saying she knew it wasn't like having mice etc). But I'll see how it goes. I can always opt to see a different vet at the practice.

If Mog's doing well - and it's still early days - next time I see the vet I'll suggest I mix in tc premix with the cooked chicken breast I give her along with feeding her purina one dry and see how that goes down. (vet said purina rather than a different dry food as it's the last known complete food she wasn't vomiting on).

At least I've got a vet now who is interested in my cat unlike my previous one.


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## Forester

Oh no , Nicola, I'm really sorry to hear that Riley is not so well at the moment. How does he seem today ? Dylan and I send all our positive vibes his way.

I'm also sorry to see that caftan and catslovelycats have felt the need to join this thread. No -one wants to be here but it is a fantastic support network.

Dylan is off to the vets on Thursday after his 6 weeks on gastro intestinal. I've made the appointment with the vet which I've seen previously so it could be interesting . He hasn't been any better on the GI and the automatic feeder seems to have had limited success. I'll report our progress, or not, on Thursday.

Best wishes to all other thread members and your gorgeous fur babies.


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## catfan

Thanks, forester. Sorry Dylan hasn't been better on his GI diet. I hope the vet visit is helpful.


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## buffie

Hi caftan , sorry to see you need to join us,not because we don't want you to,just that it means you have an ill cat.
Sorry if I have missed any posts but what tests has your vet done to lead him to think Mog may have IBD.
I may be wrong but the constipation doesn't sound like a normal IBD reaction.
"Dire rear"/vomiting are the 2 normal signs along obviously with other things.
Hope this new vet can get to the bottom (no pun intended) of his problems .


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## buffie

Forester said:


> Oh no , Nicola, I'm really sorry to hear that Riley is not so well at the moment. How does he seem today ? Dylan and I send all our positive vibes his way.
> 
> I'm also sorry to see that caftan and catslovelycats have felt the need to join this thread. No -one wants to be here but it is a fantastic support network.
> 
> Dylan is off to the vets on Thursday after his 6 weeks on gastro intestinal. I've made the appointment with the vet which I've seen previously so it could be interesting . He hasn't been any better on the GI and the automatic feeder seems to have had limited success. I'll report our progress, or not, on Thursday.
> 
> Best wishes to all other thread members and your gorgeous fur babies.


Hi Forester what a b*gger that there is no improvement in Dylan on the new food .
Are you still going to ask for the Famotidine ,it may not work even if he agrees but unless you try it you will never know.
Hope it all goes well and you get somewhere ,it is so frustrating when everything you try has no effect.
Meeko seems to be doing well at the moment,I'm never comfortable saying it as he usually has a flare up as soon as I do.
Still being sick occasionally but not often and is eating a "wet only" diet still.
I am beginning to wonder if the lack of dry food may be responsible for the drop in his vomiting as I believe dry food takes longer to pass through the system,with his reduced gut motility that just may have caused a "back log"


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## catfan

Hi buffie,

Thanks and glad meeko is doing well,

She hasn't done any tests - she felt she could assume from the details I gave her from the last seven months or so and proceed as if. From what I've read I do too. Constipation rather than dire-rear can definitely be a symptom of ibd and chronic vomiting whilst otherwise seeming healthy really points to it:

Those frustrating vomiting cats! - Veterinary Medicine

As she said a surgical biopsy is the definitive test but she wouldn't want to put Mog through that. Or at this stage sedate her to give her other tests (Mog is too stressy to submit to eg an ultrasound without sedation - and it may not show a lot anyway at this stage.). She's only 4 so not geriatric issues. Plus she shows no other signs - healthy seeming otherwise for the past eight months. I was confident in the diagnosis (and much better than my last vet's "must have a very sensitive stomach") She has healthy colour she said - I assume she meant her gums. She has it mildly I guess compared with some of the cats here.

She is an anxious cat. She was rehomed due to a change in her previous environment stressing her out and the poor girl really found being uprooted and moving somewhere new hard. (Harder than other cats might.) She's a lot better than she was on that front but still nervy. (But she doesn't have the symptoms of ibs rather than ibd). And she's been to the vets more times than would have been helpful when it comes to stress of course.


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## catfan

re constipation:


> Cats with inflammatory bowel disease may have a history of frequent vomiting (more than 1 or 2 times per month). Many owners erroneously think that this may just be hairball vomiting or eating too fast. Other cats have intermittent soft or diarrhea stools, or blood and mucous on the stooL Still other cats will have frequent bouts with constipation. Many cats have more than one of these symptoms.


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## catfan

She had her worst episodes of frequent vomiting back in Jan/Feb. My then (rubbish) vet could detect inflammation of the bowel via palpitation which took a couple of weeks to go down. Since then she has still vomited but no inflammation has been felt via palpitation.


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## Forester

Hi buffie, Yes, I do intend to ask ( for the third time ! )to try an antacid for Dylan .

I have posted that we haven't made progress however I have established that Dylan will vomit his breakfast *every* time that his first food of the day is eaten after about 6.30am. I have previously told the vet that approx. 90% of the vomiting occurs after breakfast but I have now produced a graph showing the times when he vomits to illustrate my point. How sad am I ? I just wished that I'd recorded the times when he's been fed when he hasn't vomited. The autofeeder , timed for 4/5am, has helped a little to prevent the breakfast " returns" however for some strange reason he's had a couple of evening vomits since I've been using the feeder

I will be going armed with my details of the vet concept kangaroo and goat as well as the ropocat venison just in case she decides to look at them this time. Pigs might fly ! I'm hoping that she won't say that its time for endoscopy/ barium enema etc as I really want to pursue the intolerance path ( as well as an antacid ) as I am convinced that he is sensitive to chicken as well as having an acid issue. I'm a bit worried about whether Dyl's insurance ( Petplan ) will cover me if I don't go along with her suggestion. One thing is certain though.....Dylan will not be going onto a dry food.

Its great news that Meeko is enjoying his wet only diet and that his vomiting has improved. I don't think that the improvement can just be coincidence. Long may it continue. Interestingly, I can't remember where I read it but I have recently read that dry food can increase vomiting due to irritating the stomach when it expands.

I'll update on Thursday...


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## nicolaa123

Thanks all for his well wishes..he is a bit brighter today..but not interested in food so we are in an anorexic phase I'm guessing. He is sat on the window sill looking out so better than yesterday when he just wanted to lay on the bed. His bum looks a little sore tho..it's not enough for a vet trip so I will be keeping an eye on him..

Sorry to hear we have more in the club...

Buffie That's all I have to say 

Forester..hope for a good vet trip and I for one will be most interested in what your vet has to say 

Cat fan..not having constipation issues with mine, I will have a look at some references I have. Few things spring to mind with that is dry food can cause blockages, with my own cat it produced very hard poo, which I now think caused his anal polyp and slight prolapse.

Back to mog..has her poo been tested for internal parasites? 
Did your vet suggest zyklene to help with the stress as stress alone can cause vomiting. 

It seems that you have (like we all do) tried a lot of different foods in a short time period and this can cause stress and if you have a cat that is prone to reactions during food changes, you have to go even more slower than with a "normal" cat.

I think if was me, I would go back to the food that was a safe food for four weeks, keeping a diary of incidents, then try and change this (like adding two bits at a time) of a better quality grain free (should help with constipation) building up so slowly until you are feeding the other dry each time noting any changes. If a bad reaction is seen take it back a step and start again.

If this is successful then I would start to add wet (grain free preferbly a novel protein and single with limited add ons) at a teaspoon a time. Like I said this is a painfully slow process but necessary. A food not eaten before should not cause any reaction (that's the theory). Once you can get onto the novel wet single protein diet and have been for 4 weeks, you can then really start an elimination diet and find any trigger foods..

I will look into the whole constipation thing and ibd and come back to you 

Poo and blood tests tho to rule other things out is really where I would start..

Hope that helps..


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## catfan

Sorry Dylan is having such a hard time. I would draw a graph if I were you as well! I hope it goes OK at the vets.

Like I say I don't think Mog has been as bad as other cats here but she's vomited frequently enough for me to find it really stressful so I do feel for you.


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## nicolaa123

What I've just been looking at keeps bringing up megacolon..Think this also needs to be ruled out..

I will keep looking and add some links later..

How often is the constipation and what are the stools like? Any blood or mucus? Any accidents outside the litter tray? Is mog and innie or outie..sorry for all questions (you will get used to me)


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## catfan

Thanks nicola. Although she hasn't had poo tests/blood samples both vets have been confident it's not parasites.

I am not yet confident enough tbh to go against the new vet's advice at the moment so I shall go along with reintroducing purina one biscuits. It has grain in it but she wasn't constipated or vomiting when she was on it before. Her bouts of constipation have occurred when she's not been on any dry food. I'll still be giving her white fish and chicken breast too. I don't want to feed her purina one exclusively. When I next go to the vets I'll know how she's been on it and can discuss my concerns. And if she's been OK discuss any very slow tweaks. If it hasn't worked out I think the vet is thinking along the lines of a prescription diet.

She absolutely loves having the biscuits again after 5 months without (I reduced them over the second two months with me) - such an addict. I never really managed to persuade her on to wet food apart from gourmet perle which turned out to really not agree with her at all. After I had to stop the gourmet perle pretty sharpish I was still avoiding dry but struggling to get her on to anything complete which was always a worry. (And then when I put her on tc feline plus cooked meat I wasn't sure if it was adequate as it wasn't raw).

She has come to love her white fish and chicken breast which she'd never had before she came to me. Shame it's not an adequate diet for a cat!

Oh yes - I have been giving her zylkene for a long time now. (I forgot to tell the vet though). I told the vet she was an anxious cat but again she was much more anxious in her first 6 weeks here when mainly on the purina one and not being sick then. Plus there's no apparent pattern to her being sick and when she might be a bit more anxious.


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## Forester

Thanks, nicola, caftan, buffie.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Hi buffie, Yes, I do intend to ask ( for the third time ! )to try an antacid for Dylan .
> 
> I have posted that we haven't made progress however I have established that Dylan will vomit his breakfast *every* time that his first food of the day is eaten after about 6.30am. I have previously told the vet that approx. 90% of the vomiting occurs after breakfast but I have now produced a graph showing the times when he vomits to illustrate my point. How sad am I ? I just wished that I'd recorded the times when he's been fed when he hasn't vomited. The autofeeder , timed for 4/5am, has helped a little to prevent the breakfast " returns" however for some strange reason he's had a couple of evening vomits since I've been using the feeder
> 
> I will be going armed with my details of the vet concept kangaroo and goat as well as the ropocat venison just in case she decides to look at them this time. Pigs might fly ! I'm hoping that she won't say that its time for endoscopy/ barium enema etc as I really want to pursue the intolerance path ( as well as an antacid ) as I am convinced that he is sensitive to chicken as well as having an acid issue. I'm a bit worried about whether Dyl's insurance ( Petplan ) will cover me if I don't go along with her suggestion. One thing is certain though.....Dylan will not be going onto a dry food.
> 
> Its great news that Meeko is enjoying his wet only diet and that his vomiting has improved. I don't think that the improvement can just be coincidence. Long may it continue. Interestingly, I can't remember where I read it but I have recently read that dry food can increase vomiting due to irritating the stomach when it expands.
> 
> I'll update on Thursday...


Good for you! Being prepared is half the battle :thumbsup:

Didn't you see another vet that was more willing to work with your suggestions? If no joy as to see them..


----------



## nicolaa123

catfan said:


> Thanks nicola. Although she hasn't had poo tests/blood samples both vets have been confident it's not parasites.
> 
> I am not yet confident enough tbh to go against the new vet's advice at the moment so I shall go along with reintroducing purina one biscuits. It has grain in it but she wasn't constipated or vomiting when she was on it before. Her bouts of constipation have occurred when she's not been on any dry food. I'll still be giving her white fish and chicken breast too. I don't want to feed her purina one exclusively. When I next go to the vets I'll know how she's been on it and can discuss my concerns. And if she's been OK discuss any very slow tweaks. If it hasn't worked out I think the vet is thinking along the lines of a prescription diet.
> 
> She absolutely loves having the biscuits again after 5 months without (I reduced them over the second two months with me) - such an addict. I never really managed to persuade her on to wet food apart from gourmet perle which turned out to really not agree with her at all. After I had to stop the gourmet perle pretty sharpish I was still avoiding dry but struggling to get her on to anything complete which was always a worry. (And then when I put her on tc feline plus cooked meat I wasn't sure if it was adequate as it wasn't raw).
> 
> She has come to love her white fish and chicken breast which she'd never had before she came to me. Shame it's not an adequate diet for a cat!
> 
> Oh yes - I have been giving her zylkene for a long time now. (I forgot to tell the vet though). I told the vet she was an anxious cat but again she was much more anxious in her first 6 weeks here when mainly on the purina one and not being sick then. Plus there's no apparent pattern to her being sick and when she might be a bit more anxious.


How they can tell it's not parasites or even protozoal parasites with out a test I find some what confusing. The bloods would give an indication of overall health for example white blood count etc.


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## buffie

Forester..I wouldn't worry too much about Pet Plan as far as I'm aware they are only interested in what treatment has been done,it is up to you what treatment you have done/not done .
Having it all written down makes perfect sense to me,maybe this is a side effect for us poor slaves of IBD cats .
I've found if I don't write stuff down ,when I try to explain to the vet ,it all gets jumbled up and doesn't make any sense to me so the vet has no chance of understanding it Good luck


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## catfan

Mog always poos in the tray. Never any mucus or blood. She ventures outside a little bit but not much. (and she likes me to accompany her generally!).

I noticed when I was cutting down the dry she had longer gap between poos so I went more slowly with that.

Her first real bout of constipation seemed to happen after/during the inflammation episode in Jan/Feb. She was getting injections (anti-inflammatories/anti-biotics) from the vets then. I put her on sanofor and she started going at least every two days. I noticed if I missed the sanofor she didn't go as often.

Then there was a trip to the old vets in mid May and since then she's been constipated often (not going for up to five days at a time) and the sanofor no longer seemed to help. Plus she only takes that with a bit of tuna fish and not sure she gets on too well with that. So I've been giving her miralax.

I might try and see if she'll take sanofor in chicken breast these days.


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Good for you! Being prepared is half the battle :thumbsup:
> 
> Didn't you see another vet that was more willing to work with your suggestions? If no joy as to see them..


I * have* seen a vet who advised me that she was very impressed with the ropocat venison. Unfortunately , it was on a day when I called in for advice so I didn't have an appointment and I don't know who the vet was that I spoke to. The practice have 3 new vets who I have never seen. I've been studying the photos on the practice website but I really can't decide which vet it was though I've narrowed it down to 2.

The senior partner did say that she wanted to see him in 6 weeks so I feel that it would be rude to ask for someone else. I was half hoping that she would be on holiday so that I would have an excuse to see someone else but it was not to be. If this consultation goes the way of the last one I could well get banned


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## nicolaa123

catfan said:


> Mog always poos in the tray. Never any mucus or blood. She ventures outside a little bit but not much. (and she likes me to accompany her generally!).
> 
> I noticed when I was cutting down the dry she had longer gap between poos so I went more slowly with that.
> 
> Her first real bout of constipation seemed to happen after/during the inflammation episode in Jan/Feb. She was getting injections (anti-inflammatories/anti-biotics) from the vets then. I put her on sanofor and she started going at least every two days. I noticed if I missed the sanofor she didn't go as often.
> 
> Then there was a trip to the old vets in mid May and since then she's been constipated often (not going for a few days at a time) and the sanofor no longer seemed to help. Plus she only takes that with a bit of tuna fish and not sure she gets on too well with that. So I've been giving her miralax.
> 
> I might try and see if she'll take sanofor in chicken breast these days.


What was the inflammation episode? What was her treatment?

How is her weight been?


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## catfan

Next time I go to the vets I'll ask about blood tests.


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## buffie

Forester said:


> I * have* seen a vet who advised me that she was very impressed with the ropocat venison. Unfortunately , it was on a day when I called in for advice so I didn't have an appointment and I don't know who the vet was that I spoke to. The practice have 3 new vets who I have never seen. I've been studying the photos on the practice website but I really can't decide which vet it was though I've narrowed it down to 2.
> 
> The senior partner did say that she wanted to see him in 6 weeks so I feel that it would be rude to ask for someone else. I was half hoping that she would be on holiday so that I would have an excuse to see someone else but it was not to be. If *this consultation goes the way of the last one I could well get banned :*rolleyes:


I have it on Meeko's record that I will not be seen by a certain vet in the practice (unless it is an emergency and there is no one else) I'm not happy with his approach on many things and apart from that I don't like him


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## catfan

She had her worst episodes of frequent vomiting back in Jan/Feb. My then (rubbish) vet could detect inflammation of the bowel via palpitation which took a couple of weeks to go down. Since then she has still vomited but no inflammation has been felt via palpitation

Her treatment was three lots of anti-inflammatory/anti-biotic injections.

Gourmet perle seemed to have caused that episode as far as I could see.

She did lose weight around this time - but she was very overweight so it hasn't caused the vets too much concern. She went from 5.5kg in Dec to 5.1kg at some point - not sure how quickly. Her ideal weight is probably more like 4.5kg. She definitely hasn't lost any weight in the past two months or so. (and I'm trying not to overfeed).


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## nicolaa123

catfan said:


> She had her worst episodes of frequent vomiting back in Jan/Feb. My then (rubbish) vet could detect inflammation of the bowel via palpitation which took a couple of weeks to go down. Since then she has still vomited but no inflammation has been felt via palpitation
> 
> Her treatment was three lots of anti-inflammatory/anti-biotic injections.
> 
> Gourmet perle seemed to have caused that episode as far as I could see.
> 
> She did lose weight around this time - but she was very overweight so it hasn't caused the vets too much concern. She went from 5.5kg in Dec to 5.1kg at some point - not sure how quickly. Her ideal weight is probably more like 4.5kg. She definitely hasn't lost any weight in the past two months or so. (and I'm trying not to overfeed).


I'm no vet, but this doesn't scream at me ibd..the vomiting is worrying the constipation could be due to a number of reasons.

I can only say what I would do and it's hard as we trust our vets.. But I would definitely be asking for bloods and poo test and depending on them results an ultra scan, especially to check the colon.

Do you have any of her past history..can you get any vet records?


----------



## catfan

I don't have/can't get her past history unfortunately.

From what I read myself the ibd suspected diagnosis seems convincing but I can raise these things with my vet. She had the previous vets records as well (from since I've had her).

She does seem healthy so this article was what made me think she had ibd prior to going the vets

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.co...ng-cats/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/832271

And other links said constipation can be a symptom of ibd.


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## catfan

Oh and she's been burpy over the last few months too.


----------



## nicolaa123

catfan said:


> I don't have/can't get her past history unfortunately.
> 
> From what I read myself the ibd suspected diagnosis seems convincing but I can raise these things with my vet. She had the previous vets records as well (from since I've had her).
> 
> She does seem healthy so this article was what made me think she had ibd prior to going the vets
> 
> Those frustrating vomiting cats! - Veterinary Medicine
> 
> And other links said constipation can be a symptom of ibd.


The link talks about vomiting and ibd and also the tests that can fully diagnose the condition. It is a condition that can not solely be diagnosed with out a combination of test, ultimately an evasive one that most owners do not want to put their cat through. Bloods, poo, ultra scan, endescopy can all give a very good indication that your cat has ibd, just going on an owners history and diagnosing is I'm my opinion some what dangerous as gastric issues can be an indication of much much more

Gastrointestinal

Constapation can be an indication of

Cat Megacolon - Causes, Symptoms, Diagnosis & Treatment | Cat Health Collection

The symptoms could be due to such a number of things including lymphoma that not having more testing done again in my opinion is dangerous.

One thing..with Riley I trusted my then vet and believed it was a food sensitive issue and he had a sensitive tummy, tried the prescription diets etc etc no tests.

I then joined here and learnt so much and did my own research, got a vet I could really work with and suggested testing and here we are today..I carry so much guilt that I didn't do it sooner I really do. I could kick myself that I accepted the diagnosis I was first given and that I potentially worsened his symptoms..I feel awful about that words can't even express it adequately enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is..ibd can not be diagnosed with out a series of tests and if I was in your shoes all that time ago I would be getting them done..


----------



## catfan

Thanks, nicola.

Please don't beat yourself up about Riley though. You were and are doing your best for him.

My last vet said sensitive stomach. The new one thinks ibd - but I hear what you are saying about tests.


----------



## Forester

I'm hoping and praying that Riley is improving, he's been constantly in my thoughts over the last couple of days. , also that Mog can manage to keep things moving, in the correct direction and that Meeko continues to enjoy his wet diet and its consequent benefits.

Well, ..... a low flying tamworth sow was seen gliding over the Herefordshire / Gloucestershire border this afternoon.:lol:

I'd decided that a charm offensive was my best way of getting an antacid and /or slightly different approach to looking at Dylan's vomiting. Whether it was that or a different approach from the vet or the fact that she had a student with her but the visit went better than I could have imagined. I'd been awake most of last night worrying about it. 

I think that my glorious multi-coloured spreadsheet of anything which I thought might be contributory helped. My messages certainly got over this time. 

We have an antacid, ranitidine to be used for 6 weeks whilst Dyl is back on Sensitivity Control. 

He's had full bloods done today. She will ring me either today or tomorrow with results.

We are going to try him on vet concept kangaroo when the course of ranitidine runs out. I'm trying my one can of kanga prior to starting the ranitidine so that I can check that he will eat it / has no drastic problems with it before I order a large quantity. Nicola/ Riley I cannot thank you enough. The vet didn't actually look at my details of the vc kangaroo but she'd obviously given it some thought. She agrees with me that my spreadsheet seems to indicate a problem with chicken although he wasn't too bad on the sensitivity control. The phrase " I know that you are dead against dry food so I won't suggest it" was uttered so my previous views have been accommodated.

Dylan is not impressed at having a baldy patch but the slave feels that we are finally making some progress.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I'm hoping and praying that Riley is improving, he's been constantly in my thoughts over the last couple of days. , also that Mog can manage to keep things moving, in the correct direction and that Meeko continues to enjoy his wet diet and its consequent benefits.
> 
> Well, ..... a low flying tamworth sow was seen gliding over the Herefordshire / Gloucestershire border this afternoon.:lol:
> 
> I'd decided that a charm offensive was my best way of getting an antacid and /or slightly different approach to looking at Dylan's vomiting. Whether it was that or a different approach from the vet or the fact that she had a student with her but the visit went better than I could have imagined. I'd been awake most of last night worrying about it.
> 
> I think that my glorious multi-coloured spreadsheet of anything which I thought might be contributory helped. My messages certainly got over this time.
> 
> We have an antacid, ranitidine to be used for 6 weeks whilst Dyl is back on Sensitivity Control.
> 
> He's had full bloods done today. She will ring me either today or tomorrow with results.
> 
> We are going to try him on vet concept kangaroo when the course of ranitidine runs out. I'm trying my one can of kanga prior to starting the ranitidine so that I can check that he will eat it / has no drastic problems with it before I order a large quantity. Nicola/ Riley I cannot thank you enough. The vet didn't actually look at my details of the vc kangaroo but she'd obviously given it some thought. She agrees with me that my spreadsheet seems to indicate a problem with chicken although he wasn't too bad on the sensitivity control. The phrase " I know that you are dead against dry food so I won't suggest it" was uttered so my previous views have been accommodated.
> 
> Dylan is not impressed at having a baldy patch but the slave feels that we are finally making some progress.


Riley is improving slowly but he isn't all quiet like he was..we are getting there..

So pleased the vet visit went well, hopefully now things will start to improve for him..


----------



## Forester

It's great news that Riley has improved a little. Poor lad, does he look any more comfortable now?


----------



## Polly G

I have only just caught up with your thread. Sorry poor Riley is having a tough time at the moment. Sending positive vibes and best wishes to you both x


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Forester..I wouldn't worry too much about Pet Plan as far as I'm aware they are only interested in what treatment has been done,it is up to you what treatment you have done/not done .
> Having it all written down makes perfect sense to me,maybe this is a side effect for us poor slaves of IBD cats .
> I've found if I don't write stuff down ,when I try to explain to the vet ,it all gets jumbled up and doesn't make any sense to me so the vet has no chance of understanding it Good luck


Sorry, I missed this post on Tuesday - had my mind on my horrendously complicated spreadsheet .

I checked my Petplan docs and they state that they will not cover any condition where veterinary advice has not been followed. I don't know why I was worried as the vet asked me how I wanted to proceed. Her attitude today was transformed from that during our last consultation though I suppose that I could also have been more conciliatory.

I *do* think that the spreadsheet helped me to make my points. I also suspect that it may have helped to show the vet how much effort I am putting into trying to help Dylan.


----------



## buffie

So pleased that you had a better out come at the vets than you had expected.
I think you are right ,you have shown the vet that you are putting a lot of thought into Dylans problem.trying to find reasons/triggers for the vomiting.
Good that you have been prescribed an antacid for Dylan but not so good that it is ranitidine (zantac) I assume it is the syrup form .
Meeko was given that at the end of last year to see if it helped at all but there was just no way on gods earth I was getting it in him.It made him froth like he had rabies and run for the hills dribbling as he went poor lad.
I did ask if it came in tablet form but was told,only for dogs.Hope you have better luck than I did.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> So pleased that you had a better out come at the vets than you had expected.
> I think you are right ,you have shown the vet that you are putting a lot of thought into Dylans problem.trying to find reasons/triggers for the vomiting.
> Good that you have been prescribed an antacid for Dylan but not so good that it is ranitidine (zantac) I assume it is the syrup form .
> Meeko was given that at the end of last year to see if it helped at all but there was just no way on gods earth I was getting it in him.It made him froth like he had rabies and run for the hills dribbling as he went poor lad.
> I did ask if it came in tablet form but was told,only for dogs.Hope you have better luck than I did.


Yes , It is in syrup form. The intention is to start with it as soon as I've ( Dylan's ) finished the can of VC kangaroo. The vet said to syringe it unless I can get him to take it in his food. I don't think that there's much chance of getting him to take it willingly as I've just tasted it...... peppermint. Shame, I read earlier on that it comes in 12 flavours. I was rather hoping that I would have been given beef flavour.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Yes , It is in syrup form. The intention is to start with it as soon as I've ( Dylan's ) finished the can of VC kangaroo. The vet said to syringe it unless I can get him to take it in his food. I don't think that there's much chance of getting him to take it willingly as I've just tasted it...... peppermint. Shame, I read earlier on that it comes in 12 flavours. I was rather hoping that I would have been given beef flavour.


Meeko's was the same ......peppermimt ........ as if a cat is going to willingly take it :nonod:.
The only good thing is your vet has agreed to trying an antacid so if you find it difficult,and to be honest stressing Dylan by trying to force it on him will not be helpful,you could ask if she would let you have Famotidine.
Good luck


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> It's great news that Riley has improved a little. Poor lad, does he look any more comfortable now?


We was "boinking" this morning so it seems he is feeling better 

Does Dylan like the kangaroo?


----------



## Forester

That's great news about Riley. I'm glad that he is enjoying a good " boink" 

Dylan certainly seems to like the kangaroo though he only had 25g yesterday and has 50g mixed into today's food. When he ate his lunch I could see that the kangaroo had all gone but a couple of pieces of gastro- intestinal were left.

Tea tonight also has 0.05 ml ranitidine in it, trying to see if I can sneak a miniscule amount in and then gradually increase but I don't hold out a lot of hope. I think that buffie is right, it won't help Dylan to stress him over the ranitidine. If he won't take it I will ask for an alternative. Poor lad, he hid behind the sofa when we got back from the vets yesterday so obviously wasn't as pleased with the vet trip as I was. He has never done that before. 

I haven't heard the results of Dyl's bloods yet but will ring shortly.

Incidently , Dyl went to vomit this morning despite having had his " starter" from the feeder at 4.30am. I picked him up to position him over the sink rather than the worktop and his retching stopped. He didn't actually vomit, that's unless he's done it somewhere else and I haven't found it yet.

The vet seemed to have a total change of attitude yesterday. She'd previously told me that cats fed " wet " should be fed twice a day. Yesterday she commented that he obviously can't go long between meals and asked whether I thought he would overeat if free fed. We agreed that he would so are continuing with the frequent small meals.


----------



## catslovelycats

I really feel for those of you with ill cats. It's a comfort for me to read your comments as it helps me come to terms with exactly the same difficulties with my little Imogen. 

Vet found Coccidia in her system and we're now on the last antibiotic that is known to treat it (Septrin). It's day 4 and poor Immy hates it. It is banana flavoured and she drools and foams at the mouth too. It's really difficult getting it in her and she gets really stressed.

The vet last night weighed her and she hasn't put on any more weight yet since last Friday. The first time she's not put on something, even if only 0.1 kg.

Her poos are all runny yellow. I gather the yellow reflects the chicken and rice in the RC sensitivity food. She has been wuite well in herself the last few days, but I know the pattern now and she soon will have a couple of days of being what seems like 'death's door' before perking up again.

I hate finding loo around the downstairs and am constantly cleaning floors, blankets because she doesn't poo in the trays at the moment.

The breeder has stopped their contact with me - noticeably after I requested a part refund at my vet's advice. It's not about the money for me though. I just want Imogen well. Or at least to know she is making progress. 

At the end of next week I need to do another poo sample for the vet to see if the coccidia has reduced, but she has warned me a) this is a long haul job and b) there may be more than coccidia to deal with.

Thanks for reading this post. It's helping me to know I'm not alone with this and my sympathies go to fellow strugglers - both human and feline.


----------



## nicolaa123

catslovelycats said:


> I really feel for those of you with ill cats. It's a comfort for me to read your comments as it helps me come to terms with exactly the same difficulties with my little Imogen.
> 
> Vet found Coccidia in her system and we're now on the last antibiotic that is known to treat it (Septrin). It's day 4 and poor Immy hates it. It is banana flavoured and she drools and foams at the mouth too. It's really difficult getting it in her and she gets really stressed.
> 
> The vet last night weighed her and she hasn't put on any more weight yet since last Friday. The first time she's not put on something, even if only 0.1 kg.
> 
> Her poos are all runny yellow. I gather the yellow reflects the chicken and rice in the RC sensitivity food. She has been wuite well in herself the last few days, but I know the pattern now and she soon will have a couple of days of being what seems like 'death's door' before perking up again.
> 
> I hate finding loo around the downstairs and am constantly cleaning floors, blankets because she doesn't poo in the trays at the moment.
> 
> The breeder has stopped their contact with me - noticeably after I requested a part refund at my vet's advice. It's not about the money for me though. I just want Imogen well. Or at least to know she is making progress.
> 
> At the end of next week I need to do another poo sample for the vet to see if the coccidia has reduced, but she has warned me a) this is a long haul job and b) there may be more than coccidia to deal with.
> 
> Thanks for reading this post. It's helping me to know I'm not alone with this and my sympathies go to fellow strugglers - both human and feline.


Ah..now we deal with this at the hedgehog hospital it can be treated successfully. But boy are you going to have to clean clean clean. We use a very strong disinfectant to clean everything the hog has been in contact with and we have to be very careful as it is easily spread.

I would invest in one of them steam mops all bedding will have to be boil washed..I would look for a cat safe strong disinfectant to really have a good clean as it can linger..and reinfect..

Can be beaten tho..interesting (well to me) the hogs poo gets really runny and looks like concrete that's just been made when they have it


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## Forester

catslovelycats, It has to be a positive that your vet has identified something definite to treat even if its likely to take a while. You have the comfort that you are working towards a solution. It may not seem great but its better than going round and round in circles, decreasing or otherwise. Even if she has issues other than the coccidia you are at least making progress.

I'm sorry that I have no experience of what you are enduring with poor little Imogen. All I can do is send positive vibes to you both.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> That's great news about Riley. I'm glad that he is enjoying a good " boink"
> 
> Dylan certainly seems to like the kangaroo though he only had 25g yesterday and has 50g mixed into today's food. When he ate his lunch I could see that the kangaroo had all gone but a couple of pieces of gastro- intestinal were left.
> 
> Tea tonight also has 0.05 ml ranitidine in it, trying to see if I can sneak a miniscule amount in and then gradually increase but I don't hold out a lot of hope. I think that buffie is right, it won't help Dylan to stress him over the ranitidine. If he won't take it I will ask for an alternative. Poor lad, he hid behind the sofa when we got back from the vets yesterday so obviously wasn't as pleased with the vet trip as I was. He has never done that before.
> 
> I haven't heard the results of Dyl's bloods yet but will ring shortly.
> 
> Incidently , Dyl went to vomit this morning despite having had his " starter" from the feeder at 4.30am. I picked him up to position him over the sink rather than the worktop and his retching stopped. He didn't actually vomit, that's unless he's done it somewhere else and I haven't found it yet.
> 
> The vet seemed to have a total change of attitude yesterday. She'd previously told me that cats fed " wet " should be fed twice a day. Yesterday she commented that he obviously can't go long between meals and asked whether I thought he would overeat if free fed. We agreed that he would so are continuing with the frequent small meals.


Good to hear the kangaroo is going down well..let's hope it stays down 

Any news on the bloods as yet?


----------



## buffie

Hope you manage to get Dylan to take the ranitidine ,it really is horrible stuff.As Nicola has just said any bloods yet?

Sounds like Riley is feeling better  there's nothing better than a good old boink to cheer a boy up .


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## buffie

Paws crossed now that you have some thing to work on that Imogen is better soon,thankfully I have no experience of Coccidia so cant really advise at all.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Good to hear the kangaroo is going down well..let's hope it stays down
> 
> Any news on the bloods as yet?


No news yet. She was out attending an emergency when I rang. The receptionist has left a message to say that I called. I'll update you all when I know. I don't think that she was expecting to find anything, just wanting to rule possibilities out as Dylan doesn't seem to be conforming as expected. Why don't our PF furbies obey the rules ?

p s the food with the 0.05ml ranitidine has all gone. I might try to hide a larger amount tomorrow . The plan is to use the full 0.7ml dose once the kangaroo has all gone and he's back on sensitivity control.

He seems to love the kangaroo but has produced rather smelly wind this evening. I was going to include 100g in tomorrow's food but in view of the wind I'll keep that to 75g. There's no point asking for trouble.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> No news yet. She was out attending an emergency when I rang. The receptionist has left a message to say that I called. I'll update you all when I know. I don't think that she was expecting to find anything, just wanting to rule possibilities out as Dylan doesn't seem to be conforming as expected. Why don't our PF furbies obey the rules ?
> 
> p s the food with the 0.05ml ranitidine has all gone. I might try to hide a larger amount tomorrow . The plan is to use the full 0.7ml dose once the kangaroo has all gone and he's back on sensitivity control.
> 
> He seems to love the kangaroo but has produced rather smelly wind this evening. I was going to include 100g in tomorrow's food but in view of the wind I'll keep that to 75g. There's no point asking for trouble.


Good news on the meds front!!

Uhm not so on the wind front


----------



## Forester

Its just a shame that Dylan's ranitidine dose is 0.7ml twice daily and I only tried 0.05ml today. That's an awful lot more to sneak in ! I'll try 0.1 ml tomorrow.

Perhaps I can fool him into thinking that kangaroo always tastes of peppermint though I suspect not.:lol:


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone and new members. Not been on for a bit as blue has been poopy loose. She is a minx for eating stuff she shouldn't 
. I still shudder about the time i found a cotton bud in her poo. I have been looking at hairballs in her poo as she is a Maine coon and i think we could be having some overflow. does anyone give paste or Vaseline? Yesterday she was awful and this morning we had a small hairball in her poop.

Hope everyone is coping...
Thank goodness for the £1 shop cheap mops xx


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone and new members. Not been on for a bit as blue has been poopy loose. She is a minx for eating stuff she shouldn't
> . I still shudder about the time i found a cotton bud in her poo. I have been looking at hairballs in her poo as she is a Maine coon and i think we could be having some overflow. does anyone give paste or Vaseline? Yesterday she was awful and this morning we had a small hairball in her poop.
> 
> Hope everyone is coping...
> Thank goodness for the £1 shop cheap mops xx


Sorry to read blue is having a bad time  I find this time of year I brush and brush and brush and brush some more..tends to keep on top of the fur! Not seen a hairball in Riley's poo before, would be something I would mention to your vet though, I know there are pastes you can give, but never have so can't really help sorry


----------



## nicolaa123

Hmmmmm, something odd.. Now I've not seen Riley drink water since he has been on wet food and since it's been sunny I've been adding water to his wet food.

He has just had a good drink from the water bowl..hot weather or something to be concerned with??


----------



## bluecordelia

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to read blue is having a bad time  I find this time of year I brush and brush and brush and brush some more..tends to keep on top of the fur! Not seen a hairball in Riley's poo before, would be something I would mention to your vet though, I know there are pastes you can give, but never have so can't really help sorry


I have managed to trim her underneath. She never brings them up and i read a lot of cats with d n v have a history of issues with hair. It was an American vet. She is better after so i will be trimming again as the heat is awful and food is for once a second thought. We are due vet visit in July so will ask. X


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmmmm, something odd.. Now I've not seen Riley drink water since he has been on wet food and since it's been sunny I've been adding water to his wet food.
> 
> He has just had a good drink from the water bowl..hot weather or something to be concerned with??


I wouldn't worry about an occaisional drink from a wet fed cat . The weather has been warm and the air dry for some time. I'd just keep an eye out to check that it is an isolated occurrence. If it becomes more regular then I'd be straight on to the vet. If he's had dire rear recently then Riley may be more in need of extra fluid than cats without IBD issues.

Please try not to worry. I have no doubt that you would identify any changes which required veterinary attention as soon as they occur.


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone and new members. Not been on for a bit as blue has been poopy loose. She is a minx for eating stuff she shouldn't
> . I still shudder about the time i found a cotton bud in her poo. I have been looking at hairballs in her poo as she is a Maine coon and i think we could be having some overflow. does anyone give paste or Vaseline? *Yesterday she was awful and this morning we had a small hairball in her poop*.
> 
> Hope everyone is coping...
> Thank goodness for the £1 shop cheap mops xx


Sorry to read that Blue is still having problems,as for the hairball in poop,I'm fairly certain that is "normal" .It has to go somewhere and vomiting it up is considered not to be the normal process for getting rid of it.
Like Nicola I have never used any paste other than Kat-a-Lax with a previous cat,so really cant help.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hmmmmm, something odd.. Now I've not seen Riley drink water since he has been on wet food and since it's been sunny I've been adding water to his wet food.
> 
> He has just had a good drink from the water bowl..hot weather or something to be concerned with??


Like Forester I wouldn't worry too much unless he is drinking a lot,the weather,even here is very warm so Riley may just be feeling he needs more fluids.


----------



## Forester

Whoops, I nearly forgot to report that Dylan's bloods came back as everything completely normal. That's a relief.

I've abandoned the ranitidine " syrup ":nonod: and have details, kindly provided by Esemais of where to obtain a suitable tablet version.

The second dose of " syrup " I discharged into the sink when I saw Dylan's reaction to having the syringe placed in his mouth. I couldn't do that to him again. 

The can of kangaroo will be finished today so I will be ordering a stock to try him on once the course of ranitidine tablets is finished. 

I don't know who is more relieved, out of Dylan and I, that we're not trying the liquid ranitidine again . I suspect that it could be me. I just couldn't put him through it.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Whoops, I nearly forgot to report that Dylan's bloods came back as everything completely normal. That's a relief.
> 
> I've abandoned the ranitidine " syrup ":nonod: and have details, kindly provided by Esemais of where to obtain a suitable tablet version.
> 
> The second dose of " syrup " I discharged into the sink when I saw Dylan's reaction to having the syringe placed in his mouth. I couldn't do that to him again.
> 
> The can of kangaroo will be finished today so I will be ordering a stock to try him on once the course of ranitidine tablets is finished.
> 
> I don't know who is more relieved, out of Dylan and I, that we're not trying the liquid ranitidine again . I suspect that it could be me. I just couldn't put him through it.


Brilliant news on the bloods..what did they test for? Any side effects with the kangaroo btw??

Riley woke me up this morning to tell me he was going to the toilet, unfortunately it was rather runny. He is fine in himself and currently on his spot of the window sill..watching over his land  he did go out for a bit well to the front step but bit too hot for him today!

I will see what the next one is like and I may give him a course of ab's why is it whenever we are getting close to a weight check he has the runs


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Whoops, I nearly forgot to report that Dylan's bloods came back as everything completely normal. That's a relief.
> 
> I've abandoned the ranitidine " syrup ":nonod: and have details, kindly provided by Esemais of where to obtain a suitable tablet version.
> 
> The second dose of " syrup " I discharged into the sink when I saw Dylan's reaction to having the syringe placed in his mouth. I couldn't do that to him again.
> 
> The can of kangaroo will be finished today so I will be ordering a stock to try him on once the course of ranitidine tablets is finished.
> 
> I don't know who is more relieved, out of Dylan and I, that we're not trying the liquid ranitidine again . I suspect that it could be me. I just couldn't put him through it.


Excellent news on the blood results,you must be so relieved 
I would be interested in where Ranitidine/Zantac tablets can be acquired my vet hasn't mentioned a smaller dose than 75mg which would be very difficult to cut into the correct dose.I must add that I wouldn't be buying them ,just curious.
Hope you manage to get Dylan sorted with his .


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Brilliant news on the bloods..what did they test for? Any side effects with the kangaroo btw??
> 
> *Riley woke me up this morning to tell me he was going to the toilet, unfortunately it was rather runny*. He is fine in himself and currently on his spot of the window sill..watching over his land  he did go out for a bit well to the front step but bit too hot for him today!
> 
> I will see what the next one is like and I may give him a course of ab's why is it whenever we are getting close to a weight check he has the runs


Oh damn,hope he is okay  Maybe the weather is upsetting him,paws crossed it isn't the start of a flare up 
Meeko has been sick and a bit off his food but I'm trying hard to ignore it,he seems okay in himself and did clear his breakfast this morning.


----------



## Forester

Fingers crossed that Blue is improving and that Riley and Meeko are just having minor blips which will not turn into full blown flare ups.

Dylan had a full blood panel plus T4. 

The kangaroo went down a treat and there have been no adverse effects.....except perhaps added enthusiasm at his favourite game - repeatedly jumping over a cardboard box to pounce on a fishing rod toy which is suddenly moved to the other side of the box :lol: sorry, I'm relieved that the ranitidine syrup episode is over. 

buffie, the 10mg ranitidine is from Summit Veterinary from Kidlington, Oxfordshire.

I have left a message for my vet that I have the details so I hope to be able to get some for Dylan shortly.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Fingers crossed that Blue is improving and that Riley and Meeko are just having minor blips which will not turn into full blown flare ups.
> 
> Dylan had a full blood panel plus T4.
> 
> The kangaroo went down a treat and there have been no adverse effects.....except perhaps added enthusiasm at his favourite game - repeatedly jumping over a cardboard box to pounce on a fishing rod toy which is suddenly moved to the other side of the box :lol: sorry, I'm relieved that the ranitidine syrup episode is over.
> 
> buffie, the 10mg ranitidine is from Summit Veterinary from Kidlington, Oxfordshire.
> 
> *I have left a message for my vet that I have the details so I hope to be able to get some for Dylan shortly*.


Hmm I wonder why your vet and mine are unaware of its existence 
The Famotidine tablet Meeko is on is 20mg and it has to be quartered.
I would be interested to hear what your vet says ,if you don't mind .


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Oh damn,hope he is okay  Maybe the weather is upsetting him,paws crossed it isn't the start of a flare up
> Meeko has been sick and a bit off his food but I'm trying hard to ignore it,he seems okay in himself and did clear his breakfast this morning.


Hopefully just the weather for both of them!?



Forester said:


> Fingers crossed that Blue is improving and that Riley and Meeko are just having minor blips which will not turn into full blown flare ups.
> 
> Dylan had a full blood panel plus T4.
> 
> The kangaroo went down a treat and there have been no adverse effects.....except perhaps added enthusiasm at his favourite game - repeatedly jumping over a cardboard box to pounce on a fishing rod toy which is suddenly moved to the other side of the box :lol: sorry, I'm relieved that the ranitidine syrup episode is over.
> 
> buffie, the 10mg ranitidine is from Summit Veterinary from Kidlington, Oxfordshire.
> 
> I have left a message for my vet that I have the details so I hope to be able to get some for Dylan shortly.


Pleased to hear skippy was ok


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Hmm I wonder why your vet and mine are unaware of its existence
> The Famotidine tablet Meeko is on is 10mg and it has to be quartered.
> I would be interested to hear what your vet says ,if you don't mind .


Of course I don't mind. I'll PM you with any feedback I get.

I've e-mailed the details as I haven't heard back from her yet and I think that she's not usually in on a Tue/Wed. She tends to be in very great demand so is quite difficult to track down. She did tell me that she doesn't like to prescribe tablets which need splitting.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Of course I don't mind. I'll PM you with any feedback I get.
> 
> I've e-mailed the details as I haven't heard back from her yet and I think that she's not usually in on a Tue/Wed. She tends to be in very great demand so is quite difficult to track down. She did tell me that she doesn't like to prescribe tablets which need splitting.


Thanks ,I would be useful to have in reserve if needed to change for any reason.


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## bluecordelia

Hi everyone..hope everyone is ok in the heat. Blue sits on the tiles or the granite window ledge cooling her tush. I had an awful week with her pooping and for the first time being sick. I think her love of flies isn't helping so have put her on raw only...small portions...chicken thigh and beef. Pork isn't a goer. I have seen massive improvements ie more solid less frequency and no sore butt. She had a mix of raw boiled and cans before but nothing really worked. I have also allowed her out off lead supervised. She just had great fun in a potato field while I paced. 
Has anyone got a suggestion to get taurine in? Adding it to boiled thighs did not get approval. We have our annual vet check soon and i want her to be fit and in this weather flea free!!


I am asking myself why did i bother with all the fancy cat food as she didn't like it and most of it lead to runny excessive poop. 

Take care all the ib gang x


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## bluecordelia

Ps i have a box of food so if you ib cats want to try a brand just post...ropocat with warm water after as few tries will be eaten but the rest was a quick sniff n binned. X


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## Forester

bluecordelia, I'm sorry I don't know a lot about balancing a raw diet but I didn't want to read and run. I understand that raw heart, from any species, is taurine rich . Do you think that she would be o k with that.? 

Its great that she is " firming up " on what you are feeding her. Personally I wouldn't worry short term about a deficiency if you are just using the chicken thighs to get her back on an even keel before returning to your usual diet. 

I feel that I need to add that the only food my cat has ever refused was raw lambs heart and cooked lambs heart gave him dreadful dire rear. I personally would be wary of feeding heart to a cat that already has a runny bum if they are not used to it.

How about a powdered taurine supplement or is that what you've already tried?


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## bluecordelia

Hi we had Fellini which i put in with boiled chicken thigh. It was left in the bowl by both cats. I will try a bit in their drinking water as taurine bothers me. I am overjoyed that for the first real time bluey has had solid poo. She seems to be a lot more relaxed i.e. no pooping and running around...happy to be fussed and lots of purring. My bf has been banned from getting her cooked chicken and prawns. We are going to try offal ie heart but i will try with a teaspoon size first. I think she gorges too much but am certainly not missing the cleaning washing and brushing. I have started using golden gray litter to stop the tracking.

I am not sure why the great improvement but raw has to be 80% of the difference plus me letting her out. Blue is quite stressy/nervy compared to Ivan and he has been a great companion for her putting up with her big paws and bear hugs.

I will look at raw rabbit and game as i do have easy access to this. 

I will let people know how heart and liver goes and hope all blues other ib mates are ok. I am still thinking early weaning,dry and her early socialisation have had a bearing on her but i love her dearly and tried to fix her when i should have stopped the commercial food and gone with a natural diet.


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## nicolaa123

Pleased to hear the raw is working for blue..I've read a lot to say raw can really help, especially rabbit..long may solid poo continue!


Well Riley was doing ok, the occasional little blip, all was well until today and well it was back to square one again  the smell was just awful! But I wonder if he had been eating something he shouldn't..I had cooked some mushrooms in butter and stupidly left the pan on the top to be washed and didn't wash it last night (I know I know) so I wonder if he had over night "washed it". I never leave stuff he can get too, can't even think why I didn't just wash it up :mad2:

He has been a bit quiet today, I've kept him in most of the day even tho I've been in the garden as was too hot for him and wanted him to rest up. He had a wander with me in the garden couple hours ago, he was "helping" me do some dead heading 

He seems fine in himself still, vets in a couple of weeks, to be honest I'm dreading his weight check as I'm sure he has lost weight again, however that could be down to the heat too as appetite has been some what less since it's been hotter..

Hope all others are doing ok..


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## bluecordelia

Hi the heat is definitely having an effect. Ivan is not eating much...it is nice to have a non ib cat to compare blue to. Blue goes mad for flies and I am sure they must turn her tummy.

I have rabbit on order and will let people know how it goes. We are getting a water fountain on Friday so sneak Fellini in and both cats were great last nite and eat their drontal large wormer thanks to greenies.

Fingers crossed that everyone's blips are weather related x


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## nicolaa123

Well I kept him in all day again today, he seems fine, he never left my bed all night which meant little sleep for me as he does this thing where he can make his body the size of the bed and I sleep in a little corner (if I'm lucky)


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## jaycee05

Reading this about feline UTIs, Chloe my cat with colitis i have just noticed tha when she goes for a wee, it is only a drop, about the size of a 10p piece
I am now wondering if if the colitis and the small amount of urine could be connected


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## chillminx

When the bowel is inflamed it can cause pressure on the bladder resulting in feeling the need to empty the bladder frequently. 

However, there is also a risk of FLUTD where there is diarrhoea e.g. from colitis. Would be worth getting her urine checked for a UTI, and also increasing her fluid intake to flush the bladder.


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## jaycee05

chillminx said:


> When the bowel is inflamed it can cause pressure on the bladder resulting in feeling the need to empty the bladder frequently.
> 
> However, there is also a risk of FLUTD where there is diarrhoea e.g. from colitis. Would be worth getting her urine checked for a UTI, and also increasing her fluid intake to flush the bladder.


Thank you, i hve had her back at the vets this morning,he felt her bladder and said it felt normal, he did ask if she was going a lot, well no she isnt, but he said sometimes the urine can [i think he said] can leak back into the bowel, she doesnt drink a lot, but does have wet food, i am still going to keep an eye on her
Also found out from the vet she was spayed in 200, s0 she must be getting on for 15 years old, i was thinking she was about 12, lost track


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## catslovelycats

My latest: Imogen came off her erythromycin on Thursday. Is now being treated for an eye ulcer (having had a tongue ulcer a month ago). Eveyrthing seemed so much better then yesterday her poo suddenly went back to the horrid days of mucus and blood.

Vet said to see how she is and phone her Monday.

I feel I've reached the end of the road. I can't afford any more treatment yet alone more tests. Vet says she may well have a more serious underlying problem that is causing all these physical problems.

To top it all off I suspect today that one of my other cats has caught campylobacter as there is more runny poo in the tray/on the floor than just Imogen has ever produced.


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## bluecordelia

catslovelycats said:


> My latest: Imogen came off her erythromycin on Thursday. Is now being treated for an eye ulcer (having had a tongue ulcer a month ago). Eveyrthing seemed so much better then yesterday her poo suddenly went back to the horrid days of mucus and blood.
> 
> Vet said to see how she is and phone her Monday.
> 
> I feel I've reached the end of the road. I can't afford any more treatment yet alone more tests. Vet says she may well have a more serious underlying problem that is causing all these physical problems.
> 
> To top it all off I suspect today that one of my other cats has caught campylobacter as there is more runny poo in the tray/on the floor than just Imogen has ever produced.


I am sorry imogen is having a rough time and you think you have another sick cat


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## nicolaa123

catslovelycats said:


> My latest: Imogen came off her erythromycin on Thursday. Is now being treated for an eye ulcer (having had a tongue ulcer a month ago). Eveyrthing seemed so much better then yesterday her poo suddenly went back to the horrid days of mucus and blood.
> 
> Vet said to see how she is and phone her Monday.
> 
> I feel I've reached the end of the road. I can't afford any more treatment yet alone more tests. Vet says she may well have a more serious underlying problem that is causing all these physical problems.
> 
> To top it all off I suspect today that one of my other cats has caught campylobacter as there is more runny poo in the tray/on the floor than just Imogen has ever produced.


Is she on antibiotics for the eye/tongue as this could just be a reaction to them rather than the runs returning.

What was the the last poo tests done and were they clear?

Cocididea can be treated, but really need if keeping both cats together to treat both for the same thing as they will pass to each other..

Hang on in there


----------



## Forester

How is Imogen today, catslovelycats ? 

I only have positive vibes to offer as I know nothing at all about coccidia but the vibes are sent accompanied by ((( Hugs ))).


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## bluecordelia

I hope Imogen is better. X. blue had check up and booster today. Weight fine..no fleas thank god. Vet asked how she was and I explained about raw and the marked improvement in stool frequency and consistency. He said she would be sensitive to only 1thing. I explained about grain left out how ib pussys wont tolerate some proteins and mentioned taurine. I feel there is a lot that vet school doesn't see. Thank goodness for this forum and thread to support us through the goods bads and odd days
Hope everyone ok Susan Blue n Ivan x


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## nicolaa123

We are ok..not saying any more than that 

Vets on Thursday for a weight check..hopefully she will be happy enough that we won't have to go back until December!


I have yet another theory  

If Riley does the same thing every day, ie eat, toilet, go out, we have no issues. When life (well mine) gets in the way it can cause problems in the back end..a change could be I'm home later than expected or I go out for the evening. Or I am at home from work. Very odd!


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## bluecordelia

Riley could be just really sensitive and any stress goes straight to his gut. I feel bluey is sensitive ie sits in the bathroom and always pops back into the house just yo see I am about. I think you could be right. Blues first big improvement came in may with the arrival of Ivan. I am 60/40 that diet then letting her out have given us the recent huge increase. X


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## Forester

Fingers crossed that all ibd fur babies are doing well and are staying stress free. 

Dylan went to the vets this morning for an evaluation of his response to the ranitidine. It has produced an improvement in the breakfast time vomiting although we've had an increase in vomiting later in the day.

I'm pinning my hopes on the theory that the evening vomiting is a result of him eating very little during the hottest part of the day and wanting to make up for it during the evenings. For the last few days I have been giving 2 feeds overnight using the automatic feeder to try to prevent him eating too much in a short space of time. This has worked so far. 

The plan for now is to carry on with the ranitidine at the same time as changing him from the sensitivity control to the vet concept kangaroo. My vet seems to think that if, as I believe, he has a sensitivity to chicken then we should have an improvement within 2 weeks. I have everything crossed that he does improve as I'm starting to get quite anxious about him. He is now vomiting approximately twice as often as he was when we went to the vets in January. Any positive vibes would be most welcome.

Fingers crossed for Riley's weight check on Thursday.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Fingers crossed that all ibd fur babies are doing well and are staying stress free.
> 
> Dylan went to the vets this morning for an evaluation of his response to the ranitidine. It has produced an improvement in the breakfast time vomiting although we've had an increase in vomiting later in the day.
> 
> I'm pinning my hopes on the theory that the evening vomiting is a result of him eating very little during the hottest part of the day and wanting to make up for it during the evenings. For the last few days I have been giving 2 feeds overnight using the automatic feeder to try to prevent him eating too much in a short space of time. This has worked so far.
> 
> The plan for now is to carry on with the ranitidine at the same time as changing him from the sensitivity control to the vet concept kangaroo. My vet seems to think that if, as I believe, he has a sensitivity to chicken then we should have an improvement within 2 weeks. I have everything crossed that he does improve as I'm starting to get quite anxious about him. He is now vomiting approximately twice as often as he was when we went to the vets in January. Any positive vibes would be most welcome.
> 
> Fingers crossed for Riley's weight check on Thursday.


Truck load of positive vibes coming your way


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## Forester

Thanks , Nicola  

I'm trying not to think of where things might go if the ranitidine plus kangaroo doesn't help. My vet wants to try steroids if no improvement, something I'm slightly reluctant about as I'm concerned about the risk of diabetes. If nothing has worked by then she wants to do an endoscopy. 

I asked whether his recent blood tests had ruled out lymphoma to which she replied " no, but its right at the bottom of the list of possibilities". 

My concern is that he's vomiting approximately twice as often now as he was when I first took him to the vets. Would a chicken sensitivity explain that ?

On a more positive note , Dylan has wolfed down the food with a little kangaroo added. He really does like it much more than the sensitivity control.:thumbsup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Thanks , Nicola
> 
> I'm trying not to think of where things might go if the ranitidine plus kangaroo doesn't help. My vet wants to try steroids if no improvement, something I'm slightly reluctant about as I'm concerned about the risk of diabetes. If nothing has worked by then she wants to do an endoscopy.
> 
> I asked whether his recent blood tests had ruled out lymphoma to which she replied " no, but its right at the bottom of the list of possibilities".
> 
> My concern is that he's vomiting approximately twice as often now as he was when I first took him to the vets. Would a chicken sensitivity explain that ?
> 
> On a more positive note , Dylan has wolfed down the food with a little kangaroo added. He really does like it much more than the sensitivity control.:thumbsup:


Steroids had no effect on Riley at all and he was on a high dosage at one point. As they had no effect he doesn't have them anymore, flare ups are controlled with metronidazole. I wouldn't rule steroids out tho if needed in the future. However only a short dose. A short dose should not have any lasting effects.

I think yes a chicken sensitivity could explain the vomiting as that might be the protein he reacts too.

I'm pleased he likes the kangaroo and I hope once you get him on that he stops vomiting then you get the fun (not) part of reintroducing foods to see what he reacts too.

I'm sure he won't be like his Riley lordship who reacts to uhm everything I try!!


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## buffie

Hi all.
Sorry to read that Dylan is still vomiting on the ranitidine it is odd that he has changed the "timing" but having said that Meeko used to vomit at different times and now only does it late at night or early morning 
Hopefully the Kangaroo will agree with him pointing to a food intolerance rather than anything sinister.
Lots of positive vibes headed his way.
Good luck and positive vibes for Riley too,hope his weight check goes well on Thursday.
To everyone else hope you and your furbies are all doing well.
Meeko is "just Meeko" still being sick,mainly furball based at the mo, but otherwise he seems well enough.Has dropped a little weight but I think that is as likely to be down to the wet only diet and the heat as anything else.


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hi all.
> Sorry to read that Dylan is still vomiting on the ranitidine it is odd that he has changed the "timing" but having said that Meeko used to vomit at different times and now only does it late at night or early morning
> Hopefully the Kangaroo will agree with him pointing to a food intolerance rather than anything sinister.
> Lots of positive vibes headed his way.
> Good luck and positive vibes for Riley too,hope his weight check goes well on Thursday.
> To everyone else hope you and your furbies are all doing well.
> Meeko is "just Meeko" still being sick,mainly furball based at the mo, but otherwise he seems well enough.Has dropped a little weight but I think that is as likely to be down to the wet only diet and the heat as anything else.


Riley is slightly bring affected by the heat but not as much as last year..mind I'm giving two big meals at night and a small breakfast so still having 200 g per day..not sure what the weight check will bring, hopefully no vet visit for 6 months and a nice weight gain 

Pleased Meeko is "ok" too!


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## bluecordelia

Hi everyone
I am feeding in the evening as I got up early ie 4.30 yesterday to feed n she was sick. I am adding water to everything. Pussums are inside during the day and out until ten at night. Hope everyone coping...raw feeding is a worry in this heat so tuna is being used


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## Forester

I hope that Riley's weight check was satisfactory , or preferably better than satisfactory. 

It would be great to hear some good news as it seems that everyone seems to have issues to some extent at present. Perhaps a cooling in the weather could help to bring about improvements, whenever that happens.

I don't really know why I am posting this. I suppose I have to " unload" where I will be understood. Sorry, folks. . . . Dylan started his transition from Sensitivity Control to Kangaroo on Monday and so far he has vomited Tuesday, Wednesday and today. I had intended to keep the 14 days ranitidine until he was completely on Kangaroo so that we could get a better idea of how the two work together. Nevertheless , I panicked when he was sick on Tuesday so started the ranitidine then. Why is there no emoticon to represent despair? I had really thought that this combination might work. This mornings ranitidine ended up behind the chest of drawers along with breakfast so he won't have derived any benefit from that dose. I made matters worse by weighing him this morning 5.1 kg. He was 5.3kg at around a year old. ( 10 months ago ). I'm really despairing as to what might be wrong with him . TBH I just feel like having a real good cry, though that wouldn't achieve anything for poor Dyl.

Apologies for putting this in writing. I thought that " unloading " might help me not to cry but it hasn't worked.


----------



## buffie

So sorry to read that the transition isn't going too well  Do you think it is the kangaroo causing the problems or not having the Ranitidine that has made him sick.
I reckon Meeko would vomit far more frequently if I stopped his Famotidine as every time we have tried to stop it ,no matter which food he was on he was being sick .
I wouldn't worry too much about the drop in weight ,it may just be that at 12 months he had reached his adult weight which makes .2 of a kg quite a small drop.
Meeko was 5.5kg at 2years old and now fluctuates between 4.6 and 5 kg's at 4 years old ,but vet says he is absolutely spot on body wise


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## nicolaa123

Sorry you and Dylan are having a bad time, hopefully things may settle down in time, might be best to give it a bit of time.


My news weight is stable at 4.23 was 4.24 last time, however despite a little disappointment no gain, he is stable and we don't have to go back until December which is good news!


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I hope that Riley's weight check was satisfactory , or preferably better than satisfactory.
> 
> It would be great to hear some good news as it seems that everyone seems to have issues to some extent at present. Perhaps a cooling in the weather could help to bring about improvements, whenever that happens.
> 
> I don't really know why I am posting this. I suppose I have to " unload" where I will be understood. Sorry, folks. . . . Dylan started his transition from Sensitivity Control to Kangaroo on Monday and so far he has vomited Tuesday, Wednesday and today. I had intended to keep the 14 days ranitidine until he was completely on Kangaroo so that we could get a better idea of how the two work together. Nevertheless , I panicked when he was sick on Tuesday so started the ranitidine then. Why is there no emoticon to represent despair? I had really thought that this combination might work. This mornings ranitidine ended up behind the chest of drawers along with breakfast so he won't have derived any benefit from that dose. I made matters worse by weighing him this morning 5.1 kg. He was 5.3kg at around a year old. ( 10 months ago ). I'm really despairing as to what might be wrong with him . TBH I just feel like having a real good cry, though that wouldn't achieve anything for poor Dyl.
> 
> Apologies for putting this in writing. I thought that " unloading " might help me not to cry but it hasn't worked.


Never apologise for offloading..our ears are always open!

The weight is not a big drop how is he body wise, feel any ribs or spine or hips..I find now I look at body condition rather than worry (as much) about weight. Tho Riley is still in my mind half a kilo short of what I would like him to be, he is ok body wise, yes I can still feel hips and spine but I have to apply more pressure than I used to when he was below 4kg..

I think it's time for an endeoscopy so they can have a look at what's going on inside him. Check what equipment your vets have and how far they can go with it. You may wish to have a referral to a vet specialist as they tend to have better equipment, more pricey (insurance a god send) but I wish at the start I had gone for the referral as they could see further into Riley..if that makes sense.

Maybe it's worth just trying the kangaroo and stopping the other food, the idea as a novel protein it shouldn't cause a reaction. As he was being sick on the sensitivity control it might be worth a try to just switch to the kangaroo and monitor for a few days.

Grrrr it's so hard and I (plus others) know what you are going through we all have the bald patches in our hair as proof! I wish I had the answer but each cat is so different with this horrible condition. All I can say is hang on in there and we are all here to support you and listen and when you want to cry we are here. Anytime!


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> So sorry to read that the transition isn't going too well  Do you think it is the kangaroo causing the problems or not having the Ranitidine that has made him sick.
> I reckon Meeko would vomit far more frequently if I stopped his Famotidine as every time we have tried to stop it ,no matter which food he was on he was being sick .
> I wouldn't worry too much about the drop in weight ,it may just be that at 12 months he had reached his adult weight which makes .2 of a kg quite a small drop.
> Meeko was 5.5kg at 2years old and now fluctuates between 4.6 and 5 kg's at 4 years old ,but vet says he is absolutely spot on body wise


buffie, Nicola, Thank you sooo much for your support. I knew that you would understand.

I 'm sorry that I don't know how to multi-quote so I'll have to make 2 posts.

I don't think that the 3 vomits can be a result of not having the ranitidine . He'd had 5 days between finishing the ranitidine and seeing the vet on Monday and hadn't vomited for a week. There again ,perhaps the ranitidine effect carried on for a few days after finishing the course. I just don't know what to think any more.

The vet seemed happy with his weight and demeanour. She told me not to bother to take him for a consult at the end of this fortnight on Kangaroo and Ranitidine, just ring up and report and she would put up some steroids for me to collect if we have no progress. She was happy that he is his usual happy , playful self.

Re his weight, I think that I'm probably just starting to let my imagination run riot because we don't seem to be getting anywhere. I'm starting to worry about lymphoma.

Its interesting that Meeko is slightly lighter than he was at 2 years old because he really does look in absolutely perfect condition in all of the photos which I've seen. He truly is a credit to you.

I'd attributed Tuesday's vomit to being still on 80% sensitivity control, ( I think that he has a problem with chicken ), then Wednesday's to the food being too cold and then today's to the food having been warmed in the microwave. I have developed an excuse for most situations but worry that I'm just burying my head in the sand.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Never apologise for offloading..our ears are always open!
> 
> The weight is not a big drop how is he body wise, feel any ribs or spine or hips..I find now I look at body condition rather than worry (as much) about weight. Tho Riley is still in my mind half a kilo short of what I would like him to be, he is ok body wise, yes I can still feel hips and spine but I have to apply more pressure than I used to when he was below 4kg..
> 
> I think it's time for an endeoscopy so they can have a look at what's going on inside him. Check what equipment your vets have and how far they can go with it. You may wish to have a referral to a vet specialist as they tend to have better equipment, more pricey (insurance a god send) but I wish at the start I had gone for the referral as they could see further into Riley..if that makes sense.
> 
> Maybe it's worth just trying the kangaroo and stopping the other food, the idea as a novel protein it shouldn't cause a reaction. As he was being sick on the sensitivity control it might be worth a try to just switch to the kangaroo and monitor for a few days.
> 
> Grrrr it's so hard and I (plus others) know what you are going through we all have the bald patches in our hair as proof! I wish I had the answer but each cat is so different with this horrible condition. All I can say is hang on in there and we are all here to support you and listen and when you want to cry we are here. Anytime!


The result of Riley's weigh-in is fantastic news. It must be a weight off your mind if you'll excuse the pun.

Thanks for " being there ". PFers, particularly IBD/ colitis contributors, truly are the best support anyone could ever wish for.

I'm in the process of transitioning Dylan to all Kangaroo but was trying to do it over a few days. I've just mixed 200 kangaroo with 100g sensitivity control and he'll be on 100% Kangaroo once this " mix " is finished.

My vet thinks that Dylan looks in excellent condition and doesn't seem to have noticed any weight loss. TBH It hadn't occurred to me that he might have lost any weight until todays vomiting set my worrying off again. I'm conscious that his appetite has reduced immensely from the level it was at a few months ago ,though in all honesty it needed to . He previously had a voracious appetite and would steal *any *food he could find. I had considered the reduction in appetite a positive change but now I'm starting to wonder.

The vets recommendation is to try steroids if the Ranitidine plus Kangaroo doesn't give a marked improvement and then on to endoscopy if we still aren't making progress. My vets practice is luckily the best equipped in the area . I have insurance ( Petplan, for life ) but haven't yet heard whether they are going to pay. The claim form was only passed to my vets on Monday. I'm slightly concerned because I adopted him in March 13 but didn't " register" him till January. I didn't " register" him because I've never " registered" any of my animals. I've just always used that vets. I would, of course, never deny Dylan any treatment because it wasn't covered by insurance but being covered would make life easier.

I think that the weather could be making things more difficult. Dylan seems to need to eat frequent small meals but doesn't want to eat when its hot during the day. He just wants to eat at night. I am so glad that I bought the automatic feeder. I am currently using it for 2 meals overnight.


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## nicolaa123

It is a long and some times fruitless road that has you going round at times in circles..but you will get to "ok" status and trust me that day you will rejoice!!

I would give him a few more days, get him on the kanagroo exclusive and then see how he is, it could be the heat that's getting to him..


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> buffie, Nicola, Thank you sooo much for your support. I knew that you would understand.
> 
> I 'm sorry that I don't know how to multi-quote so I'll have to make 2 posts.
> 
> I don't think that the 3 vomits can be a result of not having the ranitidine . He'd had 5 days between finishing the ranitidine and seeing the vet on Monday and hadn't vomited for a week. There again ,perhaps the ranitidine effect carried on for a few days after finishing the course. I just don't know what to think any more.
> 
> The vet seemed happy with his weight and demeanour. She told me not to bother to take him for a consult at the end of this fortnight on Kangaroo and Ranitidine, just ring up and report and she would put up some steroids for me to collect if we have no progress. She was happy that he is his usual happy , playful self.
> 
> Re his weight, I think that I'm probably just starting to let my imagination run riot because we don't seem to be getting anywhere. I'm starting to worry about lymphoma.
> 
> Its interesting that Meeko is slightly lighter than he was at 2 years old because he really does look in absolutely perfect condition in all of the photos which I've seen. He truly is a credit to you.
> 
> I'd attributed Tuesday's vomit to being still on 80% sensitivity control, ( I think that he has a problem with chicken ), then Wednesday's to the food being too cold and then today's to the food having been warmed in the microwave. I have developed an excuse for most situations but worry that I'm just burying my head in the sand.


Not sure if Ranitidine has a "lasting" effect Famotidine doesn't appear to have .To be honest I have tried very hard the past few months to accept that Meeko will always vomit occasionally and as long as his health doesn't deteriorate/appetite or weight drop/vomiting increase then we are just going to let this run its course.
All the tests that can be done have been done except full thickness biopsy and all that will prove is that it is or isn't IBD it wont cure him.
Try not to over think things ,I know that's not easy but it is the only way to stay sane


----------



## Forester

I'm trying hard to hold my nerve.

Dylan was sick again at 3.30am this morning shortly after emptying his feeder. My first reaction was to ring the vets this morning and ask for an endoscopy. However, I listened to him playing " wall of death " in the kitchen and decided that I would see how he goes over the weekend, totally off the sensitivity control. 

I've told myself that the Kangaroo hasn't had a chance yet as he's still been having a little of the SC. I am worried that the vomiting has become more frequent since I first took him to the vets in January but he's been on a chicken based diet for the whole period despite me believing that he has a problem with chicken. Come on Skippy. Work your magic for me, please.

Dylan is , as usual, oblivious to the situation. He's asleep in his Colossus after his favourite game of repeatedly jumping over a cardboard box, in this heat! He had also eaten well today. I'm trying to be positive.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> I'm trying hard to hold my nerve.
> 
> Dylan was sick again at 3.30am this morning shortly after emptying his feeder. My first reaction was to ring the vets this morning and ask for an endoscopy. However, I listened to him playing " wall of death " in the kitchen and decided that I would see how he goes over the weekend, totally off the sensitivity control.
> 
> I've told myself that the Kangaroo hasn't had a chance yet as he's still been having a little of the SC. I am worried that the vomiting has become more frequent since I first took him to the vets in January but he's been on a chicken based diet for the whole period despite me believing that he has a problem with chicken. Come on Skippy. Work your magic for me, please.
> 
> Dylan is , as usual, oblivious to the situation. He's asleep in his Colossus after his favourite game of repeatedly jumping over a cardboard box, in this heat! He had also eaten well today. I'm trying to be positive.


Keep trying!! Hopefully skippy will help and do some magic! I'm trying to think when the kangaroo helped Riley for the life of me I can't remember whether it was instant or after a few days, I think the later to be fair..but with Riley food isn't the issue although it helps it's not the main cure and he had quite a big flare up still on the kangaroo, but it is the best food that he has been on so far..not sure we will ever be able to find another..

If after the weekend he is still vomiting, I personally would ask for more tests, the steroids may help but they could potentially just mask what the problem is.

I will keep everything crossed here for you both and send some non vomiting positive vibes your way..xx


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## Forester

Thanks, Nicola. It's helpful to know that Riley's response to the kangaroo may not have been immediate. My vet advised that any improvement should happen pretty quickly if its going to happen . At least the next few days/week should tell us definitely whether his problem *is* food related.

TBH I had thought that we had identified a food problem when Dylan went 23 days without vomiting when he first went on to the sensitivity control only for his response to the SC to gradually decline. I'm telling myself that after 6 months of chicken based diets it may take a while for his system to settle.

The positive vibes are most appreciated.


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## bluecordelia

I am sending top level vibes Forrester. This heat is affecting cats over a month now plus furballs,eating flies, water consumption. I look at weight over a period of time. Ok i am trained to monitor babies but you only get a true picture over a few months so can factor in stuff like minor illness or see if weight goes up too much ie overfeeding. I try to not weigh too much but look at a range over time. 

The heat iz affecting when and volume of feed. I am more for fluid at the mo with a bit of food. Blue will bulk up in the cooler months. Do know if my logic helps but we need to look over months at weight unless cat condition and weight plummet a fair bit x


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## ejrogers

Hi, I just wanted to say hello, I'm joining this thread with interest as my cat has just been diagnosed with suspected IBD and it looks like I have a very long road ahead of me.
My cat is 2 years old and just after we got her at 12 wks we found out she had numerous parasite disease including the dreaded T Foetus. She was treated for all of that and has since had several clear tests. However she has continuous diarrhoea and after lots of blood tests coming back clear the vet suspects IBD.
She hasn't had any ultrasounds or biopsies yet but I am quite reluctant to put her through that after everything she's been through in her short life so far.
The vet has suggested we start trying different foods to see if we can manage it through food first before trying steroids but the problem is she is very fussy with food and won't eat any of the Prescription foods.
With all of your experience can you suggest where I might start???
Thank you in advance.


----------



## nicolaa123

ejrogers said:


> Hi, I just wanted to say hello, I'm joining this thread with interest as my cat has just been diagnosed with suspected IBD and it looks like I have a very long road ahead of me.
> My cat is 2 years old and just after we got her at 12 wks we found out she had numerous parasite disease including the dreaded T Foetus. She was treated for all of that and has since had several clear tests. However she has continuous diarrhoea and after lots of blood tests coming back clear the vet suspects IBD.
> She hasn't had any ultrasounds or biopsies yet but I am quite reluctant to put her through that after everything she's been through in her short life so far.
> The vet has suggested we start trying different foods to see if we can manage it through food first before trying steroids but the problem is she is very fussy with food and won't eat any of the Prescription foods.
> With all of your experience can you suggest where I might start???
> Thank you in advance.


I would start listing every food your cat has eaten, protein and add on's . From this list you will be able to identify novel proteins your cat hasn't eaten. Protein like kangaroo, reindeer, ostrich etc


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## bluecordelia

nicolaa123 said:


> I would start listing every food your cat has eaten, protein and add on's . From this list you will be able to identify novel proteins your cat hasn't eaten. Protein like kangaroo, reindeer, ostrich etc


Also different things work for different cats. Is your cat anxious? Blue was and I didn't let her out. Diet and mental health ie stress are the 2factors which I looked at

Is your cat ha ing loose bowels or bring food up too? Hopefully we can help....I had 7months of loose stools so sympathize x


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## Forester

The positive vibes and support is most appreciated. 

Just as I was starting to have positive thoughts this morning Dylan's breakfast was returned. I'm trying but its so hard. I'm so worried about him now. I wouldn't be so concerned if he was staying the same but the vomiting is much more frequent than it used to be. He seems his usual happy self today but has hardly eaten yet. I'm desperate for him to eat but don't want him to eat too much in a short space of time which he wants to do at night.

Sorry to be so preoccupied with Dylan. I don't mean to be unsupportive of others. I just can't think straight today.


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## nicolaa123

nicolaa123 said:


> I would start listing every food your cat has eaten, protein and add on's . From this list you will be able to identify novel proteins your cat hasn't eaten. Protein like kangaroo, reindeer, ostrich etc


Sorry I got called back to work..so will finish  are normally proteins that a cat has not eaten before, the theory is that as the cat has never eaten to food, the cat shouldn't have a reaction to said food.

Raw has also proved to have good results.

Novel single proteins can be bought from vet -concept which is a German based company.

The vet may suggest z/d or h/a the later is like rice crispies and the former wet version is like plastic! But until you know the triggers you won't know if this is simply a food issue or something more..

With regards to tests, what blood tests were done, I would ask if not done for an epi test also to rule this out. Symptoms are similar, yet epi tests are not done as routine.

Has any meds been tried as yet, like metrondazole or steroids?

I would ask for an ultra scan, apart from the shaved tummy it's not an aggressive procedure at all and will be a day case for most surgeries. This can show any inflammation inside the body and potentially rule out other conditions.

Ibd is an awful horrible condition that can only be maintained rather than cured and trust me when I say I've pulled my hair out, screamed, cried laughed like a mad person..

But we are all here for each other..oh and hi..


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> The positive vibes and support is most appreciated.
> 
> Just as I was starting to have positive thoughts this morning Dylan's breakfast was returned. I'm trying but its so hard. I'm so worried about him now. I wouldn't be so concerned if he was staying the same but the vomiting is much more frequent than it used to be. He seems his usual happy self today but has hardly eaten yet. I'm desperate for him to eat but don't want him to eat too much in a short space of time which he wants to do at night.
> 
> Sorry to be so preoccupied with Dylan. I don't mean to be unsupportive of others. I just can't think straight today.


Hey no worries..I've been there and it can consume you. If it helps Riley has barely eaten 50g of food today, it's the heat I'm sure, he will eat later when it cools down I'm sure.

Is Dylan drinking? Main thing is to make sure he isn't getting de hydrated, I'm adding extra water to Riley's food, sometimes like a soup so I know he is getting enough fluid..he doesn't drink any water.

I know it's hard to keep positive, if you are at all worried about him call your vet hun, especially if you think he could be dehydrated.

I wish I had a magic wand I really do, sending some more positive vibes and a hug xx


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Hey no worries..I've been there and it can consume you. If it helps Riley has barely eaten 50g of food today, it's the heat I'm sure, he will eat later when it cools down I'm sure.
> 
> Is Dylan drinking? Main thing is to make sure he isn't getting de hydrated, I'm adding extra water to Riley's food, sometimes like a soup so I know he is getting enough fluid..he doesn't drink any water.
> 
> I know it's hard to keep positive, if you are at all worried about him call your vet hun, especially if you think he could be dehydrated.
> 
> I wish I had a magic wand I really do, sending some more positive vibes and a hug xx


Thanks, I don't think that he is dehydrated so that's one good thing. His skin ,when pinched ,bounces back pretty quickly and I have seen him drink a little today which is unusual for him . 
Breakfast came back and he's only eaten a couple of teaspoon full since. He asked for food about an hour ago but has twice sniffed at the kangaroo and walked away. If there is no improvement I will speak to my vets on Monday.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Thanks, I don't think that he is dehydrated so that's one good thing. His skin ,when pinched ,bounces back pretty quickly and I have seen him drink a little today which is unusual for him .
> Breakfast came back and he's only eaten a couple of teaspoon full since. He asked for food about an hour ago but has twice sniffed at the kangaroo and walked away. If there is no improvement I will speak to my vets on Monday.


I think it's due to change weather wise tomorrow so be some what cooler..hopefully that will help x


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I think it's due to change weather wise tomorrow so be some what cooler..hopefully that will help x


I hope so. He does definitely seem to be feeling the heat. OH has a fan going to waft cool air from an open window ( equipped with Flat Cat Screen) into other rooms and Dylan has been sat next to it enjoying the breeze. :


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## bluecordelia

Hi Forrester i would be also going for a few teaspoons of food with water...i use slightly warm to settle him. Blue got some bits of chicken with a small can of tuna yesterday. We have just had a bit of breakfast but i wont give her more until tea. I feel she does better eating little bits with a good gap i between. hope the rain makes all our cats better and back to their routines x


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## buffie

Morning Forester how is Dylan this morning.I have been reading all the posts/replies but didn't have anything to add to the advice being given.
It can be a soul destroying condition and trying to find a trigger can sometimes drive you insane.
I have never found the trigger for Meeko's vomiting,if indeed there is one ,sometimes we just have to go with what they do best on,even if that doesn't stop the reactions completely.I still think Meeko's problems are made worse by his decreased gut motility as there has been a slight improvement since he went on a wet only diet .
Sending Dylan some positive vibes,try not to worry too much xx


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## Forester

Thanks everyone. I've only just got online today. I didn't intend to leave your posts unanswered.

I'm feeling more positive today. Dylan is eating , not as much as I'd like but he is eating. I hope that I'm not going to jinx matters by putting this in writing but . . . he hasn't been sick today, yet, or not that I've found anyway. We went out this morning so I couldn't observe him for a couple of hours however I've searched everywhere in the room where he stayed and there is no evidence of any mishap.

Thanks for your suggestion of the added water bluecordelia. I've provided him with a saucer of kangaroo flavoured water in addition to his plain water. I do often add a little water to his food but he's not keen if I add too much.

buffie, may I ask whether you restrict the proteins/ ingredients in Meeko's diet at all ?. Is there anything else you've done which has made a difference other than the Famotidine / wet diet. Dylan's symptoms do seem to resemble Meeko's much more closely than any of the other IBD thread fur babies. I am reasonably confident that chicken and possibly other poultry are a trigger for him .I noticed months ago that whenever I gave him Natures Menu chicken and turkey for breakfast he would always vomit it but would be o k with the chicken and beef and the chicken and tuna. When I gave him home cooked plain chicken he was worst of all.

bluecordelia, I wondered this morning whether I have unwittingly made Dylan worse by trying to feed too frequently. I had established that he would always vomit if he goes over about 7 hours between meals but maybe I am trying to feed too often. 

I'm much more relaxed about things today.

Best wishes to all IBD thread contributors and your furbies. I'd probably have " lost it " by now without you all.


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## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Thanks everyone. I've only just got online today. I didn't intend to leave your posts unanswered.
> 
> I'm feeling more positive today. Dylan is eating , not as much as I'd like but he is eating. I hope that I'm not going to jinx matters by putting this in writing but . . . he hasn't been sick today, yet, or not that I've found anyway. We went out this morning so I couldn't observe him for a couple of hours however I've searched everywhere in the room where he stayed and there is no evidence of any mishap.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestion of the added water bluecordelia. I've provided him with a saucer of kangaroo flavoured water in addition to his plain water. I do often add a little water to his food but he's not keen if I add too much.
> 
> buffie, may I ask whether you restrict the proteins/ ingredients in Meeko's diet at all ?. Is there anything else you've done which has made a difference other than the Famotidine / wet diet. Dylan's symptoms do seem to resemble Meeko's much more closely than any of the other IBD thread fur babies. I am reasonably confident that chicken and possibly other poultry are a trigger for him .I noticed months ago that whenever I gave him Natures Menu chicken and turkey for breakfast he would always vomit it but would be o k with the chicken and beef and the chicken and tuna. When I gave him home cooked plain chicken he was worst of all.
> 
> bluecordelia, I wondered this morning whether I have unwittingly made Dylan worse by trying to feed too frequently. I had established that he would always vomit if he goes over about 7 hours between meals but maybe I am trying to feed too often.
> 
> I'm much more relaxed about things today.
> 
> Best wishes to all IBD thread contributors and your furbies. I'd probably have " lost it " by now without you all.


Good news..(with out jinxing it  )

Topping up them vibes xx


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## buffie

Forester said:


> buffie, may I ask whether you restrict the proteins/ ingredients in Meeko's diet at all ?. Is there anything else you've done which has made a difference other than the Famotidine / wet diet. Dylan's symptoms do seem to resemble Meeko's much more closely than any of the other IBD thread fur babies. I am reasonably confident that chicken and possibly other poultry are a trigger for him .I noticed months ago that whenever I gave him Natures Menu chicken and turkey for breakfast he would always vomit it *but would be o k with the chicken and beef and the chicken and tuna.* When I gave him home cooked plain chicken he was worst of all.


Have I read the bold bit correctly , if so then are you sure it was the chicken that caused Dylan to vomit as it was in all 3 flavours but he only reacted to the chicken and turkey,
Not sure why cooked chicken would make him vomit if he wasn't reacting to chicken though , unless processed cat food chicken is, as I suspect ,a bit of a distant relation , 
Have to admit I don't restrict anything unless I feel it causes any problems, although I do try to avoid anything with grains/cereal in.
I have tried all the "bells and whistles" diets and he just doesn't want to know.
Daily routine.........

Before breakfast give famotidine...(only has once a day),wait approx. 20/30 minutes give him breakfast pouch of Sheba

Lunch as above different flavour

Tea again as above

supper as above (water added to each meal)

As long as it is not being left too long I leave any uneaten food down till next meal ,sometimes he goes back to it sometimes not.

I use poultry flavour Sheba fine flakes occasionally Sheba Fusion domes or foil trays.Before anyone jumps in and says OMG why Sheba :scared:, simple answer because he likes it,will usually eat it and seems to be the least likely to cause too many problems .
I find the more I stress him about "food" the more I get stressed and that is no use to either of us.
On the odd occasions that he doesn't want to eat much I sprinkle some of this 
on the top .......Purina Veterinary Diet Fortiflora Nutritional Supplement For Cats 30x1g Sachets - Animed Direct
it is a pro biotic


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## nicolaa123

who said Sheba??

The wildlife park rescued two Scottish wildcats from a closed zoo. They are beautiful and apparently true wildcats. The female ate in her house, it's the male in the photo. Those eyes!!


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> who said Sheba??
> 
> The wildlife park rescued two Scottish wildcats from a closed zoo. They are beautiful and apparently true wildcats. The female ate in her house, it's the male in the photo. Those eyes!!


Beautiful animals and so very rare.There are so many hybrids now that the true species is close to dying out 
What do they propose to do with them ,do you know ?


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Beautiful animals and so very rare.There are so many hybrids now that the true species is close to dying out
> What do they propose to do with them ,do you know ?


I think they would like them to breed, then I guess it would be a case of searching for other pure cats to extend the species..I will ask more next time I'm in.

The male was just magnificent..the female wouldn't come out but as her keeper approached with the meat she leap up at the window teeth bared hissing..the male just watched and any movement his eyes were there


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## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I think they would like them to breed, then I guess it would be a case of searching for other pure cats to extend the species..I will ask more next time I'm in.
> 
> The male was just magnificent..the female wouldn't come out but as her keeper approached with the meat she leap up at the window teeth bared hissing..the male just watched and any movement his eyes were there


I hope they succeed with their breeding program ,are they doing DNA tests to make absolutely sure they are pure,or do they already have documentation to prove it.From my limited knowledge of them I believe it is difficult to tell just from inspection.


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## bluecordelia

I have found blue was mooching for extra today so I gave them cooked poussin
..get me...dead posh! I bought it to feed raw but am careful with the heat. Added water n a bit of goose fat and I am leaving them until early tomorrow. Blue has learnt to catch mice but I am sure she is too fussy to eat them. The fields are being cut around so she just has to stand outside and jump at the mo. I do think a good gap between meals helps but i know i have been lucky that bluey isn't as poorly as others but at times we all had to ask ourselves what the future would be. I upto 1 month ago couldn't see her getting a normal life and like everyone else both despaired and kept my fingers crossed. 

Forrester positive vibes xxx


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## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> I hope they succeed with their breeding program ,are they doing DNA tests to make absolutely sure they are pure,or do they already have documentation to prove it.From my limited knowledge of them I believe it is difficult to tell just from inspection.


I will have to ask..but I am sure they said they have been tested..I will find out


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## Forester

Wow, Nicola. I love that Sheba. Absolutely stunning.. I too would love to know whether they are 100% pure Scottish Wildcat. It would be so exciting if they bred.

buffie, I'd better explain my perverse logic. I should have done so in my previous post but didn't want to rabbit on. My initial thought was that he had a problem with turkey ( the logical thought ) but later he seemed particularly bad with plain chicken and Ropocat chicken ( as well as Ropocat poultry). I therefore assumed that the proteins in different poultry might be similar and that the Natures menu chicken and turkey would almost always give a reaction because it had 72% of offending ingredients whereas the chicken and beef and chicken and tuna only had 36%. This could also be supported in that when he first went on the sensitivity control he went 23 days without vomiting but the gap in between episodes has gradually reduced whilst he's been on chicken based foods. I did tell you that I am good at making up excuses and also at finding evidence to support my current hypothesis 

Those vibes seem to be making a difference. He hasn't vomited since Saturday breakfast time though he's not eating much. The eating is better at night but I'm slightly concerned that during the day he has been asking for food but then when given some just turns away. I can see that he has lost some weight in the last week but , as bluecordelia says, I do need to look at that on a more long term basis.

Anyway, I haven't rung the vets this morning as I feel happier than I did Friday/ Saturday.

Everyone's support has been greatly appreciated.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Wow, Nicola. I love that Sheba. Absolutely stunning.. I too would love to know whether they are 100% pure Scottish Wildcat. It would be so exciting if they bred.
> 
> buffie, I'd better explain my perverse logic. I should have done so in my previous post but didn't want to rabbit on. My initial thought was that he had a problem with turkey ( the logical thought ) but later he seemed particularly bad with plain chicken and Ropocat chicken ( as well as Ropocat poultry). I therefore assumed that the proteins in different poultry might be similar and that the Natures menu chicken and turkey would almost always give a reaction because it had 72% of offending ingredients whereas the chicken and beef and chicken and tuna only had 36%. This could also be supported in that when he first went on the sensitivity control he went 23 days without vomiting but the gap in between episodes has gradually reduced whilst he's been on chicken based foods. I did tell you that I am good at making up excuses and also at finding evidence to support my current hypothesis
> 
> Those vibes seem to be making a difference. He hasn't vomited since Saturday breakfast time though he's not eating much. The eating is better at night but I'm slightly concerned that during the day he has been asking for food but then when given some just turns away. I can see that he has lost some weight in the last week but , as bluecordelia says, I do need to look at that on a more long term basis.
> 
> Anyway, I haven't rung the vets this morning as I feel happier than I did Friday/ Saturday.
> 
> Everyone's support has been greatly appreciated.


Paws crossed things continue to go well ,I hope you can find a link with Dylans food and vomiting.
Have you tried bribery when he doesn't want to eat,Meeko has to have crushed Thrive treats on his most days or he will just walk away too 
He only eats at best 200gms of food a day sometimes less but does seem to be doing okay on it.


----------



## Forester

Dylan finally forced himself to eat a little kangaroo as nothing else was on offer. He promptly vomited and went to hide behind the sofa. This is the first time he has ever looked sorry for himself.

I've spoken with my vet and , at my request , she will x ray/ ultrasound/ endoscope with pinch biopsies on Wednesday afternoon before she goes off for a few days. She suggested full thickness biopsy but I think that is far too drastic at present. She said that I could try the steroids but that he would have to be off them for 2 weeks before he could have endoscopy so I have opted to bypass them for now.I feel that we need to be stepping up the investigations *now* 

I've been told to put him back on Sensitivity control and he's just eaten half a pouch and settled down to rest in his bed.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Dylan finally forced himself to eat a little kangaroo as nothing else was on offer. He promptly vomited and went to hide behind the sofa. This is the first time he has ever looked sorry for himself.
> 
> I've spoken with my vet and , at my request , she will x ray/ ultrasound/ endoscope with pinch biopsies on Wednesday afternoon before she goes off for a few days. She suggested full thickness biopsy but I think that is far too drastic at present. She said that I could try the steroids but that he would have to be off them for 2 weeks before he could have endoscopy so I have opted to bypass them for now.I feel that we need to be stepping up the investigations *now*
> 
> I've been told to put him back on Sensitivity control and he's just eaten half a pouch and settled down to rest in his bed.


Sorryb to read that Dylan was sick again  just when you had hoped he was doing a bit better.
I know you will worry about this,I did,but none of them are invasive procedures , Meeko was absolutely fine after it,although be warned Dylan will come back sporting a vey bald belly  but in this weather I doubt that will worry him.
Maybe at last you will get a better idea just what is going on.
Sending Dylan lots of positive vibes for Wednesday,hope it all goes well .
For what its worth I agree totally about not wanting the full thickness biopsy,far too invasive at this stage.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Sorryb to read that Dylan was sick again  just when you had hoped he was doing a bit better.
> I know you will worry about this,I did,but none of them are invasive procedures , Meeko was absolutely fine after it,although be warned Dylan will come back sporting a vey bald belly  but in this weather I doubt that will worry him.
> Maybe at last you will get a better idea just what is going on.
> Sending Dylan lots of positive vibes for Wednesday,hope it all goes well .
> For what its worth I agree totally about not wanting the full thickness biopsy,far too invasive at this stage.


I think that I feel a little better now that the decision has been made. Poor lad has probably only been eating, and keeping down , about 100g food per day for the last few days.

Its all been made worse in that my OH has been very " anti " my vets as he blames them for the loss of our previous cat. Today he has changed his story somewhat and questions why they haven't yet found out what is wrong. He has been convinced since January that we are going to lose him.

If Dylan has the nerve to complain about a bald belly I will tell him that its a go faster stripe ! 

Thanks for the vibes .x


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I think that I feel a little better now that the decision has been made. Poor lad has probably only been eating, and keeping down , about 100g food per day for the last few days.
> 
> Its all been made worse in that my OH has been very " anti " my vets as he blames them for the loss of our previous cat. Today he has changed his story somewhat and questions why they haven't yet found out what is wrong. He has been convinced since January that we are going to lose him.
> 
> *If Dylan has the nerve to complain about a bald belly I will tell him that its a go faster stripe *!
> 
> Thanks for the vibes .x


All the best bikers have them :smilewinkgrin:

It is only natural to want to blame somebody when answers are not forthcoming but sometimes the only way to go is slowly,striking things off as you go .Its over 2 years since Meeko was first being sick and although we are now at the stage of being 99% sure it is IBD we don't have a definite diagnosis and sadly will never have a cure.
All we can hope to do is manage it the best we can.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Dylan finally forced himself to eat a little kangaroo as nothing else was on offer. He promptly vomited and went to hide behind the sofa. This is the first time he has ever looked sorry for himself.
> 
> I've spoken with my vet and , at my request , she will x ray/ ultrasound/ endoscope with pinch biopsies on Wednesday afternoon before she goes off for a few days. She suggested full thickness biopsy but I think that is far too drastic at present. She said that I could try the steroids but that he would have to be off them for 2 weeks before he could have endoscopy so I have opted to bypass them for now.I feel that we need to be stepping up the investigations *now*
> 
> I've been told to put him back on Sensitivity control and he's just eaten half a pouch and settled down to rest in his bed.


Riley has been through 2 scans and 2 endeoscopy and was absolutely fine.. I of course was a wreck! With the endescopy are they going in front ways?

Dylan will be ok with the investigations he can join the cool bald belly gang

When you get the results don't forget to ask for a print out also..so you have something to refer back too, trust me when the results come back mind turns to mush. Also have pen and paper ready to make notes..

Positive vibes being sent xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley has been through 2 scans and 2 endeoscopy and was absolutely fine.. I of course was a wreck! With the endescopy are they going in front ways?
> 
> Dylan will be ok with the investigations he can join the cool bald belly gang
> 
> *When you get the results don't forget to ask for a print out also..so you have something to refer back too, trust me when the results come back mind turns to mush. Also have pen and paper ready to make notes*..
> 
> Positive vibes being sent xx


Definitely :yesnod: I could hardly have told you my name after I came home,especially after the scan at the referral vets :crazy:


----------



## Forester

My brain has already gone to mush. I don't know which way she intends to go in with the endoscope. I assumed through his mouth. I probably haven't had as much discussion about this as I should have. It was organised very quickly over the phone. My vet wasn't even on duty today but was good enough to ring me and give me time to discus with OH before making a decision. She wasn't scheduled to be operating on Wednesday either but has changed her schedule to accommodate him.. Dylan has to go to the cattery for a few days very shortly and this was the best way for her to operate and give him time to recover beforehand.

I will ask for a copy of all test results . The suggestion of taking notes is an excellent one. I know that I will be useless at the time. I don't know how Dylan has been feeling but *I* have been feeling sick for the last few days and I was close to tears on the phone to the vet's receptionist.

I didn't spot the photo's of Meeko's baldy bits before I made the " go faster stripe " comment. That's a bit more than a go faster stripe. At least it will help him to " stay cool":


----------



## bluecordelia

We all will be rooting for you on Wednesday x


----------



## Forester

bluecordelia said:


> We all will be rooting for you on Wednesday x


Thanks, bluecordelia. I know that if wishes could heal cats we would all have the healthiest cats around.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sending you and Dylan lots of positive vibes for tomorrow and big hugs and purrs..

I won't say don't worry as I know you will as I did, heck all of us did!

I'm sure he will be fine with it all and come home with shaved tummy but none the worse..

Let us know how he gets on xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sending you and Dylan lots of positive vibes for tomorrow and big hugs and purrs..
> 
> I won't say don't worry as I know you will as I did, heck all of us did!
> 
> I'm sure he will be fine with it all and come home with shaved tummy but none the worse..
> 
> Let us know how he gets on xx


Positive vibes from Meeko and me too, hope it all goes well , I'm sure it will x


----------



## Forester

I'll let you know any news as soon as I get it. I'm on now as I can't sleep due to worry. This isn't my usual forum time.

I'm not worried about the procedure just about what the vet may find. Still, the sooner we can establish the problem the sooner we can tackle it.

Dylan is complaining very loudly that he's hungry. He's perked up no end since reverting back to the SC although was very sick yesterday morning. For some strange reason he must have taken a definite dislike to the kangaroo although initially he seemed to love it. 

I can't think of anything else to say at the moment due to Mushy Brain Syndrome. 

x


----------



## Esemais

Oh Forester, I'm sorry to read his troubles are ongoing, I really did hope the ranitidine would be the answer. You and Dylan will be in my thoughts today. Hopefully you'll have an answer to what's going on very soon, and then you'll be able to get the boy better. Xx


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## Forester

Thanks everyone. I dropped him off at 8.30 this morning. 

He had the last laugh to get at me for not feeding him. As well as spending half of the night trying to beat up his ( empty) automatic feeder he managed to grab a bite sized piece of cabbage at about 7.30. I dived towards him as soon as I caught sight and pursued him at top speed around the bungalow in an effort to retrieve the cabbage . By the time I caught him he'd swallowed it.!

Dylan 1 Forester 0. He must think that he's gone back to the conditions that he had on the streets before we adopted him. Every opportunity of a mouthful needs to be taken.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Thanks everyone. I dropped him off at 8.30 this morning.
> 
> He had the last laugh to get at me for not feeding him. As well as spending half of the night trying to beat up his ( empty) automatic feeder he managed to grab a bite sized piece of cabbage at about 7.30. I dived towards him as soon as I caught sight and pursued him at top speed around the bungalow in an effort to retrieve the cabbage . By the time I caught him he'd swallowed it.!
> 
> Dylan 1 Forester 0. He must think that he's gone back to the conditions that he had on the streets before we adopted him. Every opportunity of a mouthful needs to be taken.


Arnt they funny souls,Meeko was always the same the minute he had to be starved he was always desperate for food in the morning,how he knew god knows there was no real difference to a normal morning where he would most likely sniff his breakfast and stomp off 
Hope you are managing to keep busy


----------



## Forester

Oh yes, I've kept busy. One of the junior vets rang me whilst I was at an unalterable ( is that a word ? ) appointment. 

He's fine and can be picked up at about 5pm. They've found. . . . " nothing significant" on x rays and endoscopy. The only thing noted was a small area of his stomach which looked " slightly sore". ?????. Pinch biopsies have been taken so I'll get those results in about a week. I wasn't in a position where I could talk freely when they rang so hopefully I will find out more when I collect him and will update you a s a p ( after a cuddle ! )

Its been awful without him today . Its amazing how such a small creature can be the hub of the household.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Oh yes, I've kept busy. One of the junior vets rang me whilst I was at an unalterable ( is that a word ? ) appointment.
> 
> He's fine and can be picked up at about 5pm. They've found. . . . " nothing significant" on x rays and endoscopy. The only thing noted was a small area of his stomach which looked " slightly sore". ?????. Pinch biopsies have been taken so I'll get those results in about a week. I wasn't in a position where I could talk freely when they rang so hopefully I will find out more when I collect him and will update you a s a p ( after a cuddle ! )
> 
> Its been awful without him today . Its amazing how such a small creature can be the hub of the household.


While it is frustrating that nothing has really been found,at least it looks as though there is nothing nasty going on .Did they do an ultra sound scan or just xrays.
It sounds a bit like Meeko's results .all they found on the scan was a slightly thickened intestinal wall which was slightly pinker than normal and the pinch biopsy's confirmed this.
Bet you cant wait for 5pm


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oh yes, I've kept busy. One of the junior vets rang me whilst I was at an unalterable ( is that a word ? ) appointment.
> 
> He's fine and can be picked up at about 5pm. They've found. . . . " nothing significant" on x rays and endoscopy. The only thing noted was a small area of his stomach which looked " slightly sore". ?????. Pinch biopsies have been taken so I'll get those results in about a week. I wasn't in a position where I could talk freely when they rang so hopefully I will find out more when I collect him and will update you a s a p ( after a cuddle ! )
> 
> Its been awful without him today . Its amazing how such a small creature can be the hub of the household.


Pleased to hear he is ok and nothing nasty found..stomach I guess will be sore from retching with the vomiting..

I guess you will have him home now, so give him a gentle hug and rub of his bald bits from me


----------



## Forester

We're home!. I would have updated sooner however my 93 year old neighbour fell down moments after we got back and I've been assisting her.

No real baldy bits to show off other than a small leg shave. I was told that he was a little wobbly however when I returned from my neighbour's he was on top of a 6ft bookcase. 

I didn't get a chance to chat with my vet as she was in a meeting when I collected him. I'm slightly more concerned about the " sore patch " now. Apparently it bled when touched. I have recently been wondering whether his stools have been looking a little too " black". I told the nurse who discharged him and she will tell the vet. It seems that the vet was surprised to find " nothing". I was told that she had been expecting a tumour or foreign body from how he's been very recently. 

I asked about something to ease the " sore patch" but Kate doesn't want to start any medication before the biopsy results are received. 

The good news from Dylan's point of view is that he's now allowed scrambled egg and white fish as well as the Sensitivity Control.:thumbup1:

buffie, There was no ultrasound just 2 ordinary x rays.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> We're home!. I would have updated sooner however my 93 year old neighbour fell down moments after we got back and I've been assisting her.
> 
> No real baldy bits to show off other than a small leg shave. I was told that he was a little wobbly however when I returned from my neighbour's he was on top of a 6ft bookcase.
> 
> I didn't get a chance to chat with my vet as she was in a meeting when I collected him. I'm slightly more concerned about the " sore patch " now. Apparently it bled when touched. I have recently been wondering whether his stools have been looking a little too " black". I told the nurse who discharged him and she will tell the vet. It seems that the vet was surprised to find " nothing". I was told that she had been expecting a tumour or foreign body from how he's been very recently.
> 
> I asked about something to ease the " sore patch" but Kate doesn't want to start any medication before the biopsy results are received.
> 
> The good news from Dylan's point of view is that he's now allowed scrambled egg and white fish as well as the Sensitivity Control.:thumbup1:
> 
> *buffie, There was no ultrasound just 2 ordinary x rays.*


That's a pity as a scan does give a better picture of what is going on,but still there was nothing obvious seen so that is good.
I wonder ,and this is just pure guess work,could the "sore patch" be an ulcer or something similar ?


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> That's a pity as a scan does give a better picture of what is going on,but still there was nothing obvious seen so that is good.
> I wonder ,and this is just pure guess work,could the "sore patch" be an ulcer or something similar ?


I don't think it is as bad as an ulcer, thankfully. The nurse said that there was no ulcer. The vet had apparently commented that there was " nothing there except a patch that looked slightly sore and bled when touched and a very small quantity of hair." no tumour, no foreign body, no ulcer" ( I forgot to mention the lack of ulcer in my previous post . I currently resemble a zombie due to 2 nights on very little sleep. I will sleep tonight .) The hair was just a few single hairs and didn't constitute even a tiny hairball.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I don't think it is as bad as an ulcer, thankfully. The nurse said that there was no ulcer. The vet had apparently commented that there was " nothing there except a patch that looked slightly sore and bled when touched and a very small quantity of hair." no tumour, no foreign body, no ulcer" *( I forgot to mention the lack of ulcer in my previous post *. I currently resemble a zombie due to 2 nights on very little sleep. I will sleep tonight .) The hair was just a few single hairs and didn't constitute even a tiny hairball.


Good news on the lack of an ulcer , that was the only other thing that crossed my mind . So looks like all you need to do is find some food that doesn't trigger the vomit reflex 
Hope you don't have too long to wait for the biopsy results although I doubt very much they will tell you anything you don't already know.


----------



## nicolaa123

Hopefully the results will show something that can be cured rather than still being a mystery..


----------



## Forester

buffie, Nicola, I still haven't found out how to multi-quote so I'll just attempt to reply to you both together.

My feeling is that its great that no tumour, foreign body or ulcer was evident *something *is causing Dylan to be sick on an increasingly frequent basis. How can we treat it if we don't know what *it *is? Until this time last week , although vomiting, he appeared otherwise healthy, happy and lively. Now he's looking decidedly subdued although still enjoying lots of tummy rubs.

On a brighter note he hasn't been sick yet today. O H went out this morning and brought him some cod fillets as well as organic free range eggs. I scrambled him an egg earlier on . After a couple of mouthfuls he made it clear that he had no intention of eating any more of *that*. buffie, I really feel for you when Meeko rejects food. Food rejection is something I hadn't experienced with Dylan until late last week although I had it for months with Eric RIP. I felt terrible last night as I restricted how much food I gave him as I thought that too much at once would cause him to vomit. Now I wish that I'd just let him eat as much as he wanted.

I've been told that the biopsy results are usually back within a week. I'm hoping ( obviously ) that there will be no nasties and that the vet will then be able to give me something to help his sore stomach. She is back from her days off on Tuesday and I've been told to expect a call from her then.

buffie, I'm not at all confident about finding a food which doesn't trigger the vomiting. So far everything we've tried has had an adverse effect after a few days. The only thing that I can think off that hasn't been tried yet is the goat. I still have my can of goat in reserve , thanks again , Nicola.


----------



## nicolaa123

I hope really hope it's not nothing sinister going on I also hope for your sanity and Dylan it's not pointing to ibd either..

Vc also sell horse, you just have to get some paper work signed by your vet before they will dispatch..


----------



## buffie

Don't really know what to say ,like you I am in the situation that "something" is making Meeko vomit but what ? Am I convinced it is a specific food/ingredient in the food, no I'm not.
There are too many inconsistencies in the frequency of his vomiting for it to be food related ,at least that is my thinking , I could be totally wrong though .


To multi quote click on the square next to the "quote"button on each post that you want to quote,then hit "reply"and just reply between all the quotes .


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I hope really hope it's not nothing sinister going on I also hope for your sanity and Dylan it's not pointing to ibd either..
> 
> Vc also sell horse, you just have to get some paper work signed by your vet before they will dispatch..


That would be an interesting dilemma. ! For background information I saved my horse from the meat man.

 for the good wishes.

Oh buffie, thanks for that info. I've only just spotted your post whilst I've been typing this. I'm sure that I'll get to try it out pretty soon. I think that I must have been absent when digital skills were handed out though I think that my age is contributory. When I did computer programming at college we used punch cards :lol:

There *do *seem to be a lot of similarities between Meeko's situation and Dylan's. That has to be a positive in working towards a solution as there are more of us working on it. I had obviously misunderstood Meeko's situation in that I believed that you had identified triggers for his vomiting. I'm sorry and sad that you have been in this position for so long.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> That would be an interesting dilemma. ! For background information I saved my horse from the meat man.
> 
> for the good wishes.
> 
> Oh buffie, thanks for that info. I've only just spotted your post whilst I've been typing this. I'm sure that I'll get to try it out pretty soon. *I think that I must have been absent when digital skills were handed out though *I think that my age is contributory. When I did computer programming at college we used punch cards :lol:
> 
> There *do *seem to be a lot of similarities between Meeko's situation and Dylan's. That has to be a positive in working towards a solution as there are more of us working on it. I had obviously misunderstood Meeko's situation in that I believed that you had identified triggers for his vomiting. I'm sorry and sad that you have been in this position for so long.


My limited knowledge of digital skills are all just picked up as I go along,like you I missed the "computer age"in early years 

I tried to find a trigger for Meeko's vomiting but as I say he appears to be able to eat most foods without changing his vomit patterns.It is the vomiting its self that doesn't seem to have a pattern.He can go for a couple of weeks with no vomiting and then be sick every 3/4 days for a while all on the same food 
We are on day 2 of a "don't want to eat" phase at the moment,he would,I'm sure eat some dry food if I give it to him (which I have resisted so far)but I don't want to risk starting up his urine problems again


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> My limited knowledge of digital skills are all just picked up as I go along,like you I missed the "computer age"in early years
> 
> I tried to find a trigger for Meeko's vomiting but as I say he appears to be able to eat most foods without changing his vomit patterns.It is the vomiting its self that doesn't seem to have a pattern.He can go for a couple of weeks with no vomiting and then be sick every 3/4 days for a while all on the same food
> We are on day 2 of a "don't want to eat" phase at the moment,he would,I'm sure eat some dry food if I give it to him (which I have resisted so far)but I don't want to risk starting up his urine problems again


Oh buffie, Dylan's vomiting is bad enough but it must be horrendous having to worry about Meeko's urinary tract problems as well.

I am lucky in that I've never allowed Dylan to have more than a few pieces of dry food just as a treat. If Meeko continues to refuse his wet food could you try crushing just a tiny bit of dry and sprinkling it on his wet in order to tempt him. I've never tried it myself but I understand that the smell of dry food is absolutely irresistible to cats . I know that Dylan would wake from a deep sleep in another room if the door to the treat cupboard was opened. Do you have any fortiflora?. I understand that is extremely good at tempting a reluctant eater?

I have a range of Ropocat sensitive foods in Dylan's cupboards of which I would be happy to send you a can or two for Meeko to try if you think that might help. I'm fairly sure that I have chicken, lamb and rabbit.

I understand your situation completely regarding Meeko being able to eat a specific food on one day but not on another. Dylan usually seems o k on a food for a few days only to then have a reaction. Its not surprising that we are confused, my vet say's that Dylan's system just doesn't seem to behave as it should.

I don't want to supply TMI but this morning we have evidence of blood from high up in his system in his poo. On reflection I think that he has had this for a while. When I collected him on Wednesday I left a message for my vet that I had a suspicion that he may be passing digested blood so I will discuss this with her on Tuesday, hopefully.

Dylan is eating well now, despite the rejection of scrambled egg, and has not been sick since Monday afternoon. He's just come down from his bed in response to the smell of cod steaming  so I'll see if that gets a more favourable response than the scrambled egg.

Best wishes to all IBD cats and slaves.


----------



## buffie

Do you think the blood may have been as a result of the "sore bit" in his stomach ,hope he continues to keep his food where it should be 
Thanks for the offer to send some food but to be honest I really don't think it will go down well.
Nicola sent some Kangaroo and although his initial response was good it didn't last,she did offer some "horse" but like you my conscience wouldn't let me.
We had a Palomino mare for 30+ years she was PTS at the grand age of 37 (I think) daughter still works with them so feeding Meeko horse meat was a no no.
As for sprinkling crushed dry on top,tried it,it doesnt fool him 
Crushed Thrive dried treats/Dreamies sometimes help, Fortiflora does work ,usually but I have to be careful as it sometimes makes him a bit "loose" :tongue_smilie:


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Do you think the blood may have been as a result of the "sore bit" in his stomach ,hope he continues to keep his food where it should be
> Thanks for the offer to send some food but to be honest I really don't think it will go down well.
> Nicola sent some Kangaroo and although his initial response was good it didn't last,she did offer some "horse" but like you my conscience wouldn't let me.
> We had a Palomino mare for 30+ years she was PTS at the grand age of 37 (I think) daughter still works with them so feeding Meeko horse meat was a no no.
> As for sprinkling crushed dry on top,tried it,it doesnt fool him
> Crushed Thrive dried treats/Dreamies sometimes help, Fortiflora does work ,usually but I have to be careful as it sometimes makes him a bit "loose" :tongue_smilie:


I'd like to think that the blood is merely a result of Wednesday's intrusion into his stomach however I have a sneaking suspicion that he's been passing it for a long time without me realising. Neglectful slave !.

WARNING :GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF STOOLS TO FOLLOW !
I've always thought that his stools were quite dark but then stools do contain hair and Dylan is black. They are a similar colour to those provided by Dylan's predecessor Eric however just before he passed he was suspected of having a gastric ulcer to go with his kidney disease. Dyl's offerings are darker on the outside than they are inside ( sorry if TMI ) but I have put this down to the result of internal lubrication. I started to worry that there might be " old" blood on the outside and told the nurse when I collected Dylan on Wednesday. She was going to pass the message to my vet.

I had a feeling that Meeko might be too bright to be fooled by dry food sprinkled on top of wet!

I also had a feeling that my food offer might not be any use but it stands if you ( or Meeko ) should change your mind.

Dylan was not impressed with the steamed cod, in fact he spat out a piece which managed to get into his mouth through trickery. He's eating quite well today but is very, very quiet. At least there hasn't been any more vomiting. Cod is now on the human menu.

Your mare lived to a grand old age:thumbsup:She was obviously cared for with the same dedication that is afforded to Meeko. I take my hat off to you. I lost my previous horse at 30 when he broke his pelvis and my current mare is late 20's but suffers from chronic laminitis as well as RAO. She has been a field ornament for the last 12 years since proving that she was unsafe to ride due to previous mistreatment . I was off work for a year following the fall but I could never ever part with her. Apologies for digressing.


----------



## buffie

Paws crossed there is a simple explanation for the dark coloured poo,Meeko's offerings are quite dark too but not in a "blood" way,at least I don't think so.
That must have been a sad day losing your horse with a broken pelvis,losing them to illness /old age is hard enough 
Your mare sounds a bit like Tequila was, she was a field ornament too for many years, more because she was a walking A&E advert ,she was forever getting stitched back together.
She suffered from lamimitis and cushings for nearly 2 years before she had to be PTS .She was a stubborn old bag,just when you thought she had had enough she would improve again until one morning Laura found her down in her stable unable to get back up so the vet was called and she was helped on her way.Sad day for all that was


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## Forester

Buffie, I was " lucky" when I lost Pepsi - there was no decision to make. There was no other option.. I had dreaded having to make the decision. I had already decided that he could not go through another summer, he had become laminitic at 25 so March to November was the worst time as you obviously know. It was quick. He fell during the night and went after an enormous breakfast - his last treat.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry for mentioning horse 

Also sorry for not being round as much this week..not been feeling very well, last night I was in bed by 9.30  

If you suspect blood in the poo, next time you get one you can ask the vet to sample it to make sure. Did they check the organs for any irregularities, if so were any found? Defiantly worth asking your vet about that's for sure. When Riley was very poorly his stools were very dark, I took photos for my vet . They are now the same colour of the kangaroo food 

Riley continues to do "ok" but..his hunger has increased tho this could be due to the fact it's been cooler so I'm not starting the count again just yet!

True ibd is not affected by food or food in sensitivities as such. Yes they can do better on grain free and some proteins are more easily absorbed and passed than others. Unfortunately the problem is the body sees the food as a not good thing to have inside it so rejects the best way it can.

I think along the similarities with chrones now when I think of Riley..stress has to be managed, routine has to be managed, food portion has to be managed, temperature of food. The reason why I think this is because the amount I've read about food really being the only way to control the condiiton, yet if food "fixes" it then surely it's a food intolerance.

Forgive my rambling I have a temp 

Sylv ask if you are not happy about steroids ask your vet about immunosuppressant drugs. It has been a life saver for Riley..


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Buffie, I was " lucky" when I lost Pepsi - there was no decision to make. There was no other option.. I had dreaded having to make the decision. I had already decided that he could not go through another summer, he had become laminitic at 25 so March to November was the worst time as you obviously know. It was quick. He fell during the night and went after an enormous breakfast - his last treat.


No matter how or why it is always a gut wrenching thing to have to do,if only they would just go to sleep and not wake up.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for mentioning horse
> 
> Also sorry for not being round as much this week..not been feeling very well, last night I was in bed by 9.30
> 
> If you suspect blood in the poo, next time you get one you can ask the vet to sample it to make sure. Did they check the organs for any irregularities, if so were any found? Defiantly worth asking your vet about that's for sure. When Riley was very poorly his stools were very dark, I took photos for my vet . They are now the same colour of the kangaroo food
> 
> Riley continues to do "ok" but..his hunger has increased tho this could be due to the fact it's been cooler so I'm not starting the count again just yet!
> 
> True ibd is not affected by food or food in sensitivities as such. Yes they can do better on grain free and some proteins are more easily absorbed and passed than others. Unfortunately the problem is the body sees the food as a not good thing to have inside it so rejects the best way it can.
> 
> I think along the similarities with chrones now when I think of Riley..stress has to be managed, routine has to be managed, food portion has to be managed, temperature of food. The reason why I think this is because the amount I've read about food really being the only way to control the condiiton, yet if food "fixes" it then surely it's a food intolerance.
> 
> Forgive my rambling I have a temp
> 
> Sylv ask if you are not happy about steroids ask your vet about immunosuppressant drugs. It has been a life saver for Riley..


Nicola, I have no problem at all with your suggestion of horse. It was a valuable contribution. It could be a solution however I don't think that I could resort to it unless absolutely everything else had been tried and it was needed to save Dyl's life.

I'm sorry that you have not been well and hope that you are feeling better today. I am sure that Riley will give you lots of purrs and cuddles to lift your spirits.

Unfortunately I haven't managed to speak to the vet yet as she was going off on leave for a few days. She was kind enough to stay on during the afternoon just to operate on Dylan. I think that she rang me after I got home however I was helping my elderly neighbour at the time and had taken the answerphone off in preparation for her call. I was told before I collected him that everything appeared normal on the x rays.

My concern with Dylan's stools is that they appear slightly darker on the outside than they do inside. Sorry if TMI. I know I need to get a life! When I speak to the vet I will ask her if she would like a sample.

I have just plugged a Feliway in just in case it might help. Clutching at straws comes to mind but it can't do any harm.

I'm expecting the vet to suggest something to protect Dylan's stomach lining but she won't prescribe until the biopsy results are back. I will go with what she suggests other than full thickness biopsy. My own ideas have not been very successful so far. I was initially very against the Sensitivity Control food . I didn't like the cereals, sugars and low meat content but he does seem to have been better on that than on anything else.

Since going back on the SC ( late Monday) he hasn't been sick at all. He's been very, very quiet but today seems much more lively.



buffie said:


> No matter how or why it is always a gut wrenching thing to have to do,if only they would just go to sleep and not wake up.


I couldn't agree more. Every loss I've ever had has haunted me ever since. I've always been left thinking " was there anything else I could have done ?


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks Hun, I am feeling a bit more like normal again..

How is Dylan today?


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## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks Hun, I am feeling a bit more like normal again..
> 
> How is Dylan today?


Fingers crossed that you are now over the worst and will soon be completely back to normal. Message to Riley : Please look after your mum and please, please don't need any laundry done. 

Dylan is very quiet this morning. He's asleep on top of a wardrobe where he goes when he doesn't want to be sociable. He is however eating quite well and hasn't been sick since Monday. The poo is a little better than its been for a while but is extremely dry and hard. I wonder if the firmness is making his upper intestines sore. I don't know where in the G I tract the fecal matter starts to become solid.

I'm feeling more positive than I was at the start of the week. On Monday I was worried that we were going to lose him.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Fingers crossed that you are now over the worst and will soon be completely back to normal. Message to Riley : Please look after your mum and please, please don't need any laundry done.
> 
> Dylan is very quiet this morning. He's asleep on top of a wardrobe where he goes when he doesn't want to be sociable. He is however eating quite well and hasn't been sick since Monday. The poo is a little better than its been for a while but is extremely dry and hard. I wonder if the firmness is making his upper intestines sore. I don't know where in the G I tract the fecal matter starts to become solid.
> 
> I'm feeling more positive than I was at the start of the week. On Monday I was worried that we were going to lose him.


Not sure I will ever be completely normal  but am feeling less like death!

Riley is of course being a great nurse..not! But he is still "ok" coming up to 4 weeks now..not that in counting or saying anything other than he is ok so ok is good for me!

Pleased to hear Dylan hasn't been sick since Monday..hopefully you will get results back this week..fingers crossed and positive vibes being sent xx


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Not sure I will ever be completely normal  but am feeling less like death!
> 
> Riley is of course being a great nurse..not! But he is still "ok" coming up to 4 weeks now..not that in counting or saying anything other than he is ok so ok is good for me!
> 
> Pleased to hear Dylan hasn't been sick since Monday..hopefully you will get results back this week..fingers crossed and positive vibes being sent xx


O K is great!:thumbsup:

All cat slaves are " normal" its the other people who aren't quite right. 

Vibes most appreciated.


----------



## sharonchilds

Sylv, had a couple of gins cos its my week off..yay 
Pleased to hear nothing sinister going on with the gorgeous Dylan, but still confusing for you. Sending hugs to you all.. xx


----------



## Forester

sharonchilds said:


> Sylv, had a couple of gins cos its my week off..yay
> Pleased to hear nothing sinister going on with the gorgeous Dylan, but still confusing for you. Sending hugs to you all.. xx


Aww Sharon, Have another gin for me 

We're awaiting biopsy results but he's much better in that he's keeping his food down now. I'm a bit concerned about the digested blood but we'll see what the vet has to say once she's back on duty.


----------



## sharonchilds

I'm happy to read that Dylan is keeping his food down, must be so awful for him and you.. Fingers crossed that the biopsy comes back with good results. xx


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi sorry not a about thanks to Nokia. Forrester glad nothing bad came up and fingers crossed. Poke me if i have missed anything. Hope all kits are holding out in the heat. I am adding water all the time as water bowl isn't going down x


----------



## Forester

bluecordelia said:


> Hi sorry not a about thanks to Nokia. Forrester glad nothing bad came up and fingers crossed. Poke me if i have missed anything. Hope all kits are holding out in the heat. I am adding water all the time as water bowl isn't going down x


Its good to see you back bluecordelia though I hope that its for social reasons rather than through any kitty health problems.

I trust that the added water is having a positive effect. I'm considering boiling up some chicken wings to try to make broth. I've heard that apart from keeping fluid levels up it can also help with gut healing.


----------



## bluecordelia

I had Nokia software issues! Water I feel added to all wet keeps the gut hydrated and aids pussums bowels in getting waste out ie no straining or constipation. Blue is enjoying getting out and had got brave chasing after pheasant...

Hope e everyone ok x


----------



## Forester

Best wishes to all - feline and human.

Dylan's biopsy results are back.

As buffie correctly predicted. . . . " everything is normal ". I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. My vet was unable to tell whether his intestines are inflamed as she did not do an ultrasound. 

The " sore patch " in his stomach is non existent. It seems that the vet's description got " lost in translation" on its way to me . There was no patch but the lining of his stomach bled in contact with the endoscope. We've discussed his poo , at length :frown2: and she doesn't think that it contains digested blood.

Dylan had been gradually improving over the last week however today he's vomited and has since been subdued. 

The current plan is to try Hills z/d for a short while to see whether it has any effect . We'll then try steroids then antibiotics if no improvement. The vet is still wanting to do a full thickness biopsy but I've said that I will only consider that as an absolute last resort. After all, what would that achieve?


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Best wishes to all - feline and human.
> 
> Dylan's biopsy results are back.
> 
> As buffie correctly predicted. . . . " everything is normal ". I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. My vet was unable to tell whether his intestines are inflamed as she did not do an ultrasound.
> 
> The " sore patch " in his stomach is non existent. It seems that the vet's description got " lost in translation" on its way to me . There was no patch but the lining of his stomach bled in contact with the endoscope. We've discussed his poo , at length :frown2: and she doesn't think that it contains digested blood.
> 
> Dylan had been gradually improving over the last week however today he's vomited and has since been subdued.
> 
> The current plan is to try Hills z/d for a short while to see whether it has any effect . We'll then try steroids then antibiotics if no improvement. The vet is still wanting to do a full thickness biopsy but I've said that I will only consider that as an absolute last resort. After all, what would that achieve?


So pleased the biopsy showed up nothing sinister although that leaves you wondering(in a good way) just what the hell is going on 
Meeko's pinch biopsy did show pinkish coloured tissue consistent with inflammation if I remember correctly,which the ultra sound confirmed.
Unless your vet has a very good reason for doing the full thickness biopsy I agree with you it is far too invasive at this stage.
Good luck with the Hills ZD Meeko just about tolerated the dry(for about a week) but there was no way on this earth he was going to eat the pink jelly wet version :arf:
Sorry to read that Dylan has been sick again but unless I missed something that is around a week since he was sick last.
Meeko is still being sick but it is nearly always hair balls now very little food .not sure why that should be other than we know frequent hairballs are not normal.
Hope everyone else is still keeping as well as can be expected.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> So pleased the biopsy showed up nothing sinister although that leaves you wondering(in a good way) just what the hell is going on
> Meeko's pinch biopsy did show pinkish coloured tissue consistent with inflammation if I remember correctly,which the ultra sound confirmed.
> Unless your vet has a very good reason for doing the full thickness biopsy I agree with you it is far too invasive at this stage.
> Good luck with the Hills ZD Meeko just about tolerated the dry(for about a week) but there was no way on this earth he was going to eat the pink jelly wet version :arf:
> Sorry to read that Dylan has been sick again but unless I missed something that is around a week since he was sick last.
> Meeko is still being sick but it is nearly always hair balls now very little food .not sure why that should be other than we know frequent hairballs are not normal.
> Hope everyone else is still keeping as well as can be expected.


Yes, buffie. Dylan had gone 10 days  without vomiting and I was starting to celebrate. I had given him a teaspoonful of Omm Nom Nom chicken mixed in with his Sensitivity Control for his two overnight feeds. I suspect that was the culprit. Dylan was racing around like a loony first thing this morning but has slept and not wanted to eat since being sick.

I'm not confident that Dylan will eat the z/d. He has become increasingly fussy with his food. His appetite has gone from being ravenous to quite poor over the last 6 months. I wonder if my fear of him becoming addicted to the [email protected] in the SC has come to fruition.

My brain was not in gear ( as usual ) when I spoke with the vet. She said that I would only need to try the z/d for a week to see whether it gives an improvement . It has since occurred to me that if he's going 10 days on the SC I'm not going to be able to judge whether we have an improvement in a week. Dumb slave.

The vet stressed that we could have a problem which has not been revealed by the pinch biopsy. I think that is why she is still keen to do a full thickness biopsy. I've made it clear that I'm not willing to put him through that at the moment.

Its great that Meeko is not vomiting food often these days.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Best wishes to all - feline and human.
> 
> Dylan's biopsy results are back.
> 
> As buffie correctly predicted. . . . " everything is normal ". I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. My vet was unable to tell whether his intestines are inflamed as she did not do an ultrasound.
> 
> The " sore patch " in his stomach is non existent. It seems that the vet's description got " lost in translation" on its way to me . There was no patch but the lining of his stomach bled in contact with the endoscope. We've discussed his poo , at length :frown2: and she doesn't think that it contains digested blood.
> 
> Dylan had been gradually improving over the last week however today he's vomited and has since been subdued.
> 
> The current plan is to try Hills z/d for a short while to see whether it has any effect . We'll then try steroids then antibiotics if no improvement. The vet is still wanting to do a full thickness biopsy but I've said that I will only consider that as an absolute last resort. After all, what would that achieve?


It is good that nothing sinister was found, I would say before full thickness biopsies it would be an idea to do an ultrascan..

Also good luck with the z/d it's like plastic! Still he may like it and it may help! Hope so be nice for you to find something that he doesn't react too x


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> It is good that nothing sinister was found, I would say before full thickness biopsies it would be an idea to do an ultrascan..
> 
> Also good luck with the z/d it's like plastic! Still he may like it and it may help! Hope so be nice for you to find something that he doesn't react too x


Thanks, Nicola. .Fingers crossed for the z/d. Nothing ventured, nothing gained . I'm actually pinning more hope on the steroids or antibiotics.

It would be good to have something without cereals, sugar or soya that I can feed him on. We seem to be working our way *down *the quality food list rather than up it.

Its interesting that she suggested z/d. When I first took Dylan to her she described it as " the diet of last resort ".

If I can get him to have a reasonable period without vomiting, so that I can be confident that his gut condition has improved, I would like to try him on all raw.

I was surprised that my vet didn't do an ultrasound. I suggested it, but I think that she thought that there was more chance of finding something on x rays.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Thanks, Nicola. .Fingers crossed for the z/d. Nothing ventured, nothing gained . I'm actually pinning more hope on the steroids or antibiotics.
> 
> It would be good to have something without cereals, sugar or soya that I can feed him on. We seem to be working our way *down *the quality food list rather than up it.
> 
> Its interesting that she suggested z/d. When I first took Dylan to her she described it as " the diet of last resort ".
> 
> If I can get him to have a reasonable period without vomiting, so that I can be confident that his gut condition has improved, I would like to try him on all raw.
> 
> *I was surprised that my vet didn't do an ultrasound. I suggested it, but I think that she thought that there was more chance of finding something on x rays*.


It is possible your vet is not confident with reading an ultra sound ,my own vet had to get another vet in the practice to do the ultrasound as he said although he could do it,he wasn't an expert at reading the results.I believe it is a more complicated procedure than reading an xray and needs a specialist in the field to read it correctly


----------



## bluecordelia

Great news Forrester. Could you tempt with a chunk of raw...morrisons are good for chicken venison orr bit off fish. Blue got into raw slowly. I am so excited...guts are funny things. A gastro consultant told me they know if they have been poked at. In my nurse experience people take longer to recover after bowel surgery than anything ie off their legs. x


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> It is possible your vet is not confident with reading an ultra sound ,my own vet had to get another vet in the practice to do the ultrasound as he said although he could do it,he wasn't an expert at reading the results.I believe it is a more complicated procedure than reading an xray and needs a specialist in the field to read it correctly


I suspect that you may have hit a nail on the head here buffie. Every time I have mentioned ultrasound she has always said that she would prefer to do x-rays.



bluecordelia said:


> Great news Forrester. Could you tempt with a chunk of raw...morrisons are good for chicken venison orr bit off fish. Blue got into raw slowly. I am so excited...guts are funny things. A gastro consultant told me they know if they have been poked at. In my nurse experience people take longer to recover after bowel surgery than anything ie off their legs. x


He's eaten raw chicken, lamb and rabbit in the past, prior to going on the Sensitivity Control however I only ever fed it as approx. 20% of his diet. I don't, however, want to try it whilst he is still vomiting so much as his gut is obviously very compromised.I'd like to get a reasonably settled period first. I am worried that I might cause even more problems which he definitely doesn't need. I believe that there is a greater likelihood of bacteria passing through the gut as well as increased likelihood of more sensitivities developing whilst his gut is still so sensitive. I don't think that either of us could cope with another week similar to that prior to the endoscopy.

I'm hopeful that if we can get some sort of healing then would be a better time to try him with the raw. Sadly since being on the sensitivity control for so long he has become increasingly fussy about his food.

Was Blue experiencing many symptoms when you started to transition to raw ?

.I hope that the raw continues to help Blue.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I suspect that you may have hit a nail on the head here buffie. Every time I have mentioned ultrasound she has always said that she would prefer to do x-rays.


Hmm if that is the case then she should be honest and either ask someone else in the practice or refer you to someone who can do it.I second Nicola's opinion that I would want a scan done before ever considering a full thickness
biopsy.
Hope you can get to the root of Dylans problems soon .

ETA ....Just realised you have multi-quoted :thumbsup:


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> ETA ....Just realised you have multi-quoted :thumbsup:


Thanks to your excellent instructions.:thumbup:


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Thanks to your excellent instructions.:thumbup:


If you followed my instructions you were very lucky to get it right


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> If you followed my instructions you were very lucky to get it right


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Hmm if that is the case then she should be honest and either ask someone else in the practice or refer you to someone who can do it.I second Nicola's opinion that I would want a scan done before ever considering a full thickness
> biopsy.
> Hope you can get to the root of Dylans problems soon .
> 
> ETA ....Just realised you have multi-quoted :thumbsup:


I think I would be tempted to ask for this now whilst the investigations are on going..


----------



## Forester

I've agreed to try z/d initially, then steroids. If these don't bring about any improvement we're going to try antibiotics. My suggestions so far haven't done much good so I'm following the vet's advice.

Fingers crossed that we'll get an improvement soon.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi blue was having loose stools 4times a day on occasion more. Added that she seemed just to go immediately like rip roaring. She ran about after as in pain\upset. She didn't vomit though which seems to a difference between her and the other ib pussums. We were on boiled chicken grain free and fancy German hk food. 
I have said that i think blue was nervous so we decked out a room with high shelves\runs cat trees ,tyres etc.
I feel looking at a cats mind set plus diet are key. I kept away from the vet after our first dose of clostridium perfingums and it has taken 7months to be able to say we now have solid poos!!

I did also start to let blue out so maybe she was unsettled but she was a bit odd with daffy habits ie poo in shower sucking clear cellophane and mad bouts of kneeding mirrors. 

Forrester hope you and everyone are ok. Its heart breaking when the cats are poorly. X


----------



## Forester

bluecordelia said:


> Hi blue was having loose stools 4times a day on occasion more. Added that she seemed just to go immediately like rip roaring. She ran about after as in pain\upset. She didn't vomit though which seems to a difference between her and the other ib pussums. We were on boiled chicken grain free and fancy German hk food.
> I have said that i think blue was nervous so we decked out a room with high shelves\runs cat trees ,tyres etc.
> I feel looking at a cats mind set plus diet are key. I kept away from the vet after our first dose of clostridium perfingums and it has taken 7months to be able to say we now have solid poos!!
> 
> I did also start to let blue out so maybe she was unsettled but she was a bit odd with daffy habits ie poo in shower sucking clear cellophane and mad bouts of kneeding mirrors.
> 
> Forrester hope you and everyone are ok. Its heart breaking when the cats are poorly. X


I'm really pleased that you seem to have found a solution for Blue 

Dylan is an indoor cat but has two slaves who are always on hand to stimulate and play with him and he does not show any behaviours which would lead me to believe that he is stressed. I have however recently plugged a Feliway diffuser in for him in case it might make a difference.

I have tried lots of different foods with him but the only food which has brought about any reduction in his vomiting is the Sensitivity Control which unfortunately doesn't fit with my criteria for being a good food. I am surprised that he is best with the SC as he reacted particularly badly when I fed him home cooked organic chicken. I have tried every food that HKC has to offer.

I would be ecstatic if we could get Dylan's vomiting to reduce such that I felt that it would be safe to try him with raw again. I've tried him with raw rabbit in the past but it only served to increase his vomiting. I've fed raw chicken at times but that was at the same time as a variety of canned foods so I'm not sure what effect it had.

I'd love to build a massive outdoor run for him but unfortunately it would necessitate extensive landscaping works which OH would not agree to.

If there is a solution for Dylan I will not rest until I find it.

I do wonder whether he is actually picking up on my stress about his eating. I am having to make a conscious effort not to watch him when he eats. He used to have a voracious appetite but now I struggle to get him to eat during the day though he eats well when I am in bed.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi blue always had an appetite. She was rarely alone as my dad was in the house although she wasn't allowed access to his area. It sounds as if I am in some mansion but we had a large glass roofed area which i used to house all her toys with a high ledge already in it.

I read a lot about cat well-being ie mental health. We have 2 litter trays. One has golden grey and one is a high sider but empty as she prefers this. This fix stopped the pooping under the sideboard and on the floor next to the tray. I think she wont go if tray has been used before. 

I also got Ivan my rescue cat as she was used to lots of cats /kits from her breeder. She used to watch me leave at the window before so her buddy has helped hugely. I think he has taught her also. 

Last time at vets for imms, the vet didn't take me on when I spouted about raw n taurine. They sell rc and I think he prefers moggies to pampered pedigrees.

I will never be 100% as to her improvement but I feel a combination of food and trying to get her happy worked slowly. If pushed I think outdoor access has been the one change to tip the balance. 

Blue has learnt to catch mice in the last month. She hasn't got Ivan's lethal instinct but is very proud to show me. To be fair we are surrounded by fields so it isn't hard for her.

Hope all the cats are ok. The heat sees me still adding water and feeling her body for muscle x


----------



## bluecordelia

Just had blues insurance renewal through. Its gone up from £6.32 to £7.50. Is this similar to other ib kits?


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Just had blues insurance renewal through. Its gone up from £6.32 to £7.50. Is this similar to other ib kits?


I've been amazed at how Riley's insurance has not flown up considering all the claims!! Don't forget when you first take insurance you get all sorts of discounts that catch up the next year..I would be happy with that renewal


----------



## bluecordelia

nicolaa123 said:


> I've been amazed at how Riley's insurance has not flown up considering all the claims!! Don't forget when you first take insurance you get all sorts of discounts that catch up the next year..I would be happy with that renewal


We are with lv as its meant to be a good policy. I will let it just renew.


----------



## buffie

Meeko is with Pet Plan and his renewal despite countless claims has again only risen by around £1 per month so I would say Blue's insurance is about spot on.


----------



## nicolaa123

I know this won't sound odd to anyone here. I'm worried about Riley, he has been "ok" now for 6 weeks maybe even more I can't remember the last time he had an issue. I know I should be rejoicing but it's making me feel nervous!! :cryin:


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I know this won't sound odd to anyone here. I'm worried about Riley, he has been "ok" now for 6 weeks maybe even more I can't remember the last time he had an issue. I know I should be rejoicing but it's making me feel nervous!! :cryin:


Yep understand totally  great news that Riley is doing well,paws crossed this continues 
Meeko is the same,I was at the vet yesterday picking up his repeat Famotidine and we were talking about him and I said ,very quietly he's doing okay  I was thinking he is better than he has been for a long time but wasn't going to jinx it.
Got a surprise too when I got his meds,the Famotidine now comes in a 5mg tablet so no more quartering :thumbsup: and it was a bit cheaper too


----------



## sarahecp

Hi all, hope you and your masters are well. 

I'm after some advice about Roman. 

Some of you may know Roman has had some ongoing intermittent poo issues and after a few samples was diagnosed with Giardia. Thankfully that all cleared up. But things in the poo department haven't really been great since the beginning of this year, we've had soft poos, semi firm and firm ones, I've been secretly excited but scared to be and I'm sure you all know what I mean  

We've been back and forth to the vets, more poo samples, all clear. He had a course of antibiotics called Veraflox about 4 weeks ago, vet wanted him to have this just in case there were any cultures that weren't showing up from the samples. This helped and his poos started to get firmer, he started putting the weight on  no weight gain was a concern for the amount he eats. 

Things started looking up until 3 days ago  he started with dire rear like water, it's not been like that since he was a kitten and ate too many Dreamies  so he's been having, boiled chicken, cod and giving him pro kolin, nothing has worked, everything has been going straight through him, this morning he cried when he used the litter tray  

So we've been to the vets, we didn't see our usual vet Peter, but the young lady we saw was very nice and had a chat with Peter before we were seen. She's given him a 14 day course of Metronidazole, said to continue with the fish and chicken and if no better by Monday to take him back. 

She said that Peter has advised they would like to start investigating, they want to do a biopsy. They have given me a choice, of endoscopy that they can do in house or to have him sent away to the referral centre to be opened up, have a look and take bits away. She said there is more of a risk with opening him up, but there is a risk with all ops' but with opening him up they have more of a better look and choice where to take biopsies from than with an endoscopy. 

They are thinking he could have IBD but cannot confirm or treat until this has been done. They want me to think about this over the weekend and let them know on Monday what I want to do. 

I just want to do what's best for my poor boy and want him better.

Any advice would be really appreciated. 

 xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Hi all, hope you and your masters are well.
> 
> I'm after some advice about Roman.
> 
> Some of you may know Roman has had some ongoing intermittent poo issues and after a few samples was diagnosed with Giardia. Thankfully that all cleared up. But things in the poo department haven't really been great since the beginning of this year, we've had soft poos, semi firm and firm ones, I've been secretly excited but scared to be and I'm sure you all know what I mean
> 
> We've been back and forth to the vets, more poo samples, all clear. He had a course of antibiotics called Veraflox about 4 weeks ago, vet wanted him to have this just in case there were any cultures that weren't showing up from the samples. This helped and his poos started to get firmer, he started putting the weight on  no weight gain was a concern for the amount he eats.
> 
> Things started looking up until 3 days ago  he started with dire rear like water, it's not been like that since he was a kitten and ate too many Dreamies  so he's been having, boiled chicken, cod and giving him pro kolin, nothing has worked, everything has been going straight through him, this morning he cried when he used the litter tray
> 
> So we've been to the vets, we didn't see our usual vet Peter, but the young lady we saw was very nice and had a chat with Peter before we were seen. She's given him a 14 day course of Metronidazole, said to continue with the fish and chicken and if no better by Monday to take him back.
> 
> She said that Peter has advised they would like to start investigating, they want to do a biopsy. They have given me a choice, of endoscopy that they can do in house or to have him sent away to the referral centre to be opened up, have a look and take bits away. She said there is more of a risk with opening him up, but there is a risk with all ops' but with opening him up they have more of a better look and choice where to take biopsies from than with an endoscopy.
> 
> They are thinking he could have IBD but cannot confirm or treat until this has been done. They want me to think about this over the weekend and let them know on Monday what I want to do.
> 
> I just want to do what's best for my poor boy and want him better.
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated.
> 
> xx


I'm at work at the moment I will reply when I am home, didn't want to read an run . x


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I'm at work at the moment I will reply when I am home, didn't want to read an run . x


Thanks Nicola xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Hi all, hope you and your masters are well.
> 
> I'm after some advice about Roman.
> 
> Some of you may know Roman has had some ongoing intermittent poo issues and after a few samples was diagnosed with Giardia. Thankfully that all cleared up. But things in the poo department haven't really been great since the beginning of this year, we've had soft poos, semi firm and firm ones, I've been secretly excited but scared to be and I'm sure you all know what I mean
> 
> We've been back and forth to the vets, more poo samples, all clear. He had a course of antibiotics called Veraflox about 4 weeks ago, vet wanted him to have this just in case there were any cultures that weren't showing up from the samples. This helped and his poos started to get firmer, he started putting the weight on  no weight gain was a concern for the amount he eats.
> 
> Things started looking up until 3 days ago  he started with dire rear like water, it's not been like that since he was a kitten and ate too many Dreamies  so he's been having, boiled chicken, cod and giving him pro kolin, nothing has worked, everything has been going straight through him, this morning he cried when he used the litter tray
> 
> So we've been to the vets, we didn't see our usual vet Peter, but the young lady we saw was very nice and had a chat with Peter before we were seen. She's given him a 14 day course of Metronidazole, said to continue with the fish and chicken and if no better by Monday to take him back.
> 
> She said that Peter has advised they would like to start investigating, they want to do a biopsy. They have given me a choice, of endoscopy that they can do in house or to have him sent away to the referral centre to be opened up, have a look and take bits away. She said there is more of a risk with opening him up, but there is a risk with all ops' but with opening him up they have more of a better look and choice where to take biopsies from than with an endoscopy.
> 
> They are thinking he could have IBD but cannot confirm or treat until this has been done. They want me to think about this over the weekend and let them know on Monday what I want to do.
> 
> I just want to do what's best for my poor boy and want him better.
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated.
> 
> xx


Sorry to read that Roman is not doing so well.
I can only give you my opinion as I see it,so here goes.
After a few weeks of trying all the usual basic things including elimination diet, Meeko had a full panel of bloods done including a specific Pancreatitis test (PLI test I think) all came back clear so the next step was xrays and or scan/endoscopy and pinch biopsy taken with the endoscopy.
First we did xrays (my choice) this was not conclusive so scan/endoscopy and pinch biopsy was done,this was enough to convince my vet that he was 99% certain it was IBD.He did mention the full thickness biopsy but agreed with me that it was an invasive procedure which he didn't think would show up anything more than had been shown by the pinch biopsy.
Meeko has since been seen at The Royal(Dick) veterinary College where another scan was done and they agreed with my vets diagnosis.
Personally I would only have the full thickness biopsy done as a last resort.
I must add that Meeko has "upper digestive tract IBD" which makes him vomit and doesn't have "dire rear" making endoscopy much easier.
I do hope you can find a diagnosis soon for your gorgeous boy ,everything crossed here for him,sending him lots of healing vibes.
I'm sure Nicola will be along with lots more thoughts x

ETA....Just noticed Nicola has replied


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Hi all, hope you and your masters are well.
> 
> I'm after some advice about Roman.
> 
> Some of you may know Roman has had some ongoing intermittent poo issues and after a few samples was diagnosed with Giardia. Thankfully that all cleared up. But things in the poo department haven't really been great since the beginning of this year, we've had soft poos, semi firm and firm ones, I've been secretly excited but scared to be and I'm sure you all know what I mean
> 
> We've been back and forth to the vets, more poo samples, all clear. He had a course of antibiotics called Veraflox about 4 weeks ago, vet wanted him to have this just in case there were any cultures that weren't showing up from the samples. This helped and his poos started to get firmer, he started putting the weight on  no weight gain was a concern for the amount he eats.
> 
> Things started looking up until 3 days ago  he started with dire rear like water, it's not been like that since he was a kitten and ate too many Dreamies  so he's been having, boiled chicken, cod and giving him pro kolin, nothing has worked, everything has been going straight through him, this morning he cried when he used the litter tray
> 
> So we've been to the vets, we didn't see our usual vet Peter, but the young lady we saw was very nice and had a chat with Peter before we were seen. She's given him a 14 day course of Metronidazole, said to continue with the fish and chicken and if no better by Monday to take him back.
> 
> She said that Peter has advised they would like to start investigating, they want to do a biopsy. They have given me a choice, of endoscopy that they can do in house or to have him sent away to the referral centre to be opened up, have a look and take bits away. She said there is more of a risk with opening him up, but there is a risk with all ops' but with opening him up they have more of a better look and choice where to take biopsies from than with an endoscopy.
> 
> They are thinking he could have IBD but cannot confirm or treat until this has been done. They want me to think about this over the weekend and let them know on Monday what I want to do.
> 
> I just want to do what's best for my poor boy and want him better.
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated.
> 
> xx


Buffie has already given you excellent advise..

All I can add is..as long as metrondazole doesn't disagree with him it's an excellent drug, the antibiotics kill any bacteria but also it has an anti inflamatory agent that helps on the inside..you should see signs of improvement quite quickly. What dose have they given him?

How much does roman weigh now and before his tummy troubles started?

I agree with buffie on the investigation, ultra scan and endeoscopy would be my first choices after bloods and stools. Also ask them for an epi test just to rule this out. Full thickness biopsy is a big operation and I wouldn't put Riley through that, not when we are 99.9% sure he is ibd anyway! He bounced back very quickly and he has had three scans and two endeoscopies, worse bit a shaved tummy!

Due to the giardia it could have led to inflammation in the stomach/intestine which is a cause of ibd as any bacteria or a food sensitivity issue. Or even something we don't understand or know..

If it was me I would be booking him in for the scan and endeoscopy next week. Earlier things are found the better.

Hope that helps..oh and I really hope roman feels better soon..xx

Oh and we are always here if you want an ear xx

Oh and just lastly  what was he eating prior to this latest flare up, food and treats?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Yep understand totally  great news that Riley is doing well,paws crossed this continues
> Meeko is the same,I was at the vet yesterday picking up his repeat Famotidine and we were talking about him and I said ,very quietly he's doing okay  I was thinking he is better than he has been for a long time but wasn't going to jinx it.
> Got a surprise too when I got his meds,the Famotidine now comes in a 5mg tablet so no more quartering :thumbsup: and it was a bit cheaper too


All crossed for Meeko also remaining "ok"!!

Ahh the roundabout of ibd


----------



## sarahecp

Thank you Buffie and Nicola for your replies and advice  xx

Just need to charge my phone and give Roman his meds and I'll reply properly.


----------



## sarahecp

Thanks again both for your well wishes, replies and advice  xx

Roman has only ever had poo issues no sickness, to my knowledge I think he's only ever been sick twice and that was fur balls.

We tried to do some food eliminations, and thanks to Nicola who sent us some goat and kangaroo Mr fussy pants was being his usual fussy self  Frank and Seb loved the goat  

He's been given 200mg of Metrondazole, a qtr to be given twice a day. He had a qtr when we got back from the vets this morning and now he's refusing it, the Bricanyl for his asthma and any food or water, I've syringed a little water into his mouth. 

He now weighs 6kg, he was 6.5kg 2 weeks ago but was 5.5kg for months, since the Veraflox he put the weight on and now he's losing it again  

He's still eating Felix as good as it looks, fish flavours, not too keen on the meat ones, he has the adult ones most of the time and occasionally I get the kitten one if they haven't got adult fish. He eats between 6-8 pouches a day. He has Dreamies sometimes and 2-4 Natures Menu treats daily as I hide the Bricanyl tablet inside. He's been having these treats since June when he started the Bricanyl. 

Frank and Seb eat Sheba fine flakes and Sheba fusions, but Roman doesn't like them. 

What is the epi test? He's had stool samples, would we need to do more? We've not had any bloods done, what would I ask them to test for? And they've not mentioned scans, would this automatically be done when they do the endoscopy or will it be separate? 

He had an ultrasound scan and X-rays to diagnosed his asthma, would something have been seen then or they may not have been looking for it so not picked up?? 

Xx


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi Sarah
You have had the best advice from the ib queens. Blue was rotty botty too. Its hard work. Hope the meds work. We had liquid metronidazole so we squirted it on food to save stress of syringing.


----------



## sarahecp

He's now taken his meds 

I forgot to ask, how quickly does the Metrondazole take to work? He's now had 2 doses, I wouldn't expect it to work that quick, but he has still got watery dire rear, just been again 



bluecordelia said:


> Hi Sarah
> You have had the best advice from the ib queens. Blue was rotty botty too. Its hard work. Hope the meds work. We had liquid metronidazole so we squirted it on food to save stress of syringing.


Thank you  xx

I agree it is hard work, I feel mentally and physically drained, I'm tired and walking around like a zombie. I've not been feeling great myself, so not sleeping too well due to pain and listening out for Roman in the litter tray, I hear him scrape and I'm downstairs in a flash on poo watch, poor boy, glad he doesn't get embarrassed


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks again both for your well wishes, replies and advice  xx
> 
> Roman has only ever had poo issues no sickness, to my knowledge I think he's only ever been sick twice and that was fur balls.
> 
> We tried to do some food eliminations, and thanks to Nicola who sent us some goat and kangaroo Mr fussy pants was being his usual fussy self  Frank and Seb loved the goat
> 
> He's been given 200mg of Metrondazole, a qtr to be given twice a day. He had a qtr when we got back from the vets this morning and now he's refusing it, the Bricanyl for his asthma and any food or water, I've syringed a little water into his mouth.
> 
> He now weighs 6kg, he was 6.5kg 2 weeks ago but was 5.5kg for months, since the Veraflox he put the weight on and now he's losing it again
> 
> He's still eating Felix as good as it looks, fish flavours, not too keen on the meat ones, he has the adult ones most of the time and occasionally I get the kitten one if they haven't got adult fish. He eats between 6-8 pouches a day. He has Dreamies sometimes and 2-4 Natures Menu treats daily as I hide the Bricanyl tablet inside. He's been having these treats since June when he started the Bricanyl.
> 
> Frank and Seb eat Sheba fine flakes and Sheba fusions, but Roman doesn't like them.
> 
> What is the epi test? He's had stool samples, would we need to do more? We've not had any bloods done, what would I ask them to test for? And they've not mentioned scans, would this automatically be done when they do the endoscopy or will it be separate?
> 
> He had an ultrasound scan and X-rays to diagnosed his asthma, would something have been seen then or they may not have been looking for it so not picked up??
> 
> Xx


I would ask for full blood work to be done, testing liver and other organs etc etc..also his white blood cell count, the epi test is a specific blood test, this link may help.. Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency in cats: More common than veterinarians think It's good to rule it out.

As for the scans they should do this the same time as the edesocopy, hand in hand really.

Luckily Riley is easy to pill (well for me) it might be a case of tough love I'm afraid as he needs the meds. He is on a good doseage so if you can get it into him he should start to improve. One thing you can try is putting his buster collar on as that will immobilise him and quickly pill, then lots of fuss after!

As for food, sounds like you do have a fussy one  I would stop the dreamies to try and limit what is going in him. It may be worth trying the hills z/d it's disgusting stuff but it would be worth a try you might be able to get one tin to try from your vets. Other than that am elimination diet is going to be a tough time if he is a fussy one! Vet concept do sell horse, you could try that also.

Sooo, I think bloods, scan and endeoscopy would be first on my list, then take it from there..


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> He's now taken his meds
> 
> I forgot to ask, how quickly does the Metrondazole take to work? He's now had 2 doses, I wouldn't expect it to work that quick, but he has still got watery dire rear, just been again
> 
> Thank you  xx
> 
> I agree it is hard work, I feel mentally and physically drained, I'm tired and walking around like a zombie. I've not been feeling great myself, so not sleeping too well due to pain and listening out for Roman in the litter tray, I hear him scrape and I'm downstairs in a flash on poo watch, poor boy, glad he doesn't get embarrassed


Should see some improvement 2-3 days.

Just another thought do you think he has eaten anything outside? One of seb's frogs?


----------



## nicolaa123

Oh another thought..Riley can not have pro kolin as it gives him the runs! Has roman had this before with out a reaction, if not I would be inclined to stop that and stick with the poached chicken..


----------



## buffie

Nothing to add really ,just thought it might be worth a mention (forewarned is forearmed and all that) Meeko was allergic to the Metronidazole,it made him really itchy, typical


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I would ask for full blood work to be done, testing liver and other organs etc etc..also his white blood cell count, the epi test is a specific blood test, this link may help.. Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency in cats: More common than veterinarians think It's good to rule it out.
> 
> As for the scans they should do this the same time as the edesocopy, hand in hand really.
> 
> Luckily Riley is easy to pill (well for me) it might be a case of tough love I'm afraid as he needs the meds. He is on a good doseage so if you can get it into him he should start to improve. One thing you can try is putting his buster collar on as that will immobilise him and quickly pill, then lots of fuss after!
> 
> As for food, sounds like you do have a fussy one  I would stop the dreamies to try and limit what is going in him. It may be worth trying the hills z/d it's disgusting stuff but it would be worth a try you might be able to get one tin to try from your vets. Other than that am elimination diet is going to be a tough time if he is a fussy one! Vet concept do sell horse, you could try that also.
> 
> Sooo, I think bloods, scan and endeoscopy would be first on my list, then take it from there..


Thanks for the link, I will have a read through.

I think I need to take some lessons in tough love, I have a pill popper, I will promise to be tough and start using it, Seb had the last couple of Dreamies this morning, I've now crossed them off my shopping list.

We've tried before with the Hills z/d and the RC i/d foods he got as far as licking them and that was it, I thought Seb was a fussy one, Roman is worse 

It is going to a tough time but it's something we've got to do. I will call my vet on Monday and let them know what I want, will let you know how I get on with the requests.

xx



nicolaa123 said:


> Should see some improvement 2-3 days.
> 
> Just another thought do you think he has eaten anything outside? One of seb's frogs?


Thanks  xx

That was my first thought of him eating something while being out, don't think he's eaten one of Seb's frogs, he just taps them and watches them jump like Seb does  he only goes out when I'm at home and only stays in our garden or next doors. But that doesn't mean he hasn't eaten anything he shouldn't have done  I just hope he hasn't.


----------



## Forester

I'm sorry to hear about Roman's poo problems. Having a cat with suspected IBD is a great strain and I understand your feeling of mental and physical exhaustion sarah. I really hope that the Metronidazole works for Roman and that he will soon be feeling much better.

If its any help to you , my vet wanted to take a full thickness biopsy from my cat who has been suffering from chronic vomiting but I declined. She explained to me that it is an extremely invasive procedure , that the procedure can cause further damage to the intestines where the biopsy is taken from and that a lengthy recovery period is likely to be required after the surgery. I had said that I felt that it was imperative to find a cause of the vomiting as quickly as possible however I felt that the full thickness biopsy was too drastic a step. I opted for endoscopy with pinch biopsies. Nothing was found .

To update on Dylan, he's been at a cattery for 6 days and hasn't vomited at all. I'm also feeling much less stressed. I hadn't wanted to go away but the break has definitely relaxed me.

Its fantastic news that Riley, Meeko and Blue all appear to be doing well.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh another thought..Riley can not have pro kolin as it gives him the runs! Has roman had this before with out a reaction, if not I would be inclined to stop that and stick with the poached chicken..


Now you saying that, when I've given it to him in the past it didn't seem to firm things up, probably made him worse but only just thought about this as you mentioned it. I won't give it to him anymore.



buffie said:


> Nothing to add really ,just thought it might be worth a mention (forewarned is forearmed and all that) Meeko was allergic to the Metronidazole,it made him really itchy, typical


I'll keep an eye on any itching. Going to look up side affects now. Probably shouldn't I know.


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Nothing to add really ,just thought it might be worth a mention (forewarned is forearmed and all that) Meeko was allergic to the Metronidazole,it made him really itchy, typical


Oh these boys!!



sarahecp said:


> Thanks for the link, I will have a read through.
> 
> I think I need to take some lessons in tough love, I have a pill popper, I will promise to be tough and start using it, Seb had the last couple of Dreamies this morning, I've now crossed them off my shopping list.
> 
> We've tried before with the Hills z/d and the RC i/d foods he got as far as licking them and that was it, I thought Seb was a fussy one, Roman is worse
> 
> It is going to a tough time but it's something we've got to do. I will call my vet on Monday and let them know what I want, will let you know how I get on with the requests.
> 
> xx
> 
> Thanks  xx
> 
> That was my first thought of him eating something while being out, don't think he's eaten one of Seb's frogs, he just taps them and watches them jump like Seb does  he only goes out when I'm at home and only stays in our garden or next doors. But that doesn't mean he hasn't eaten anything he shouldn't have done  I just hope he hasn't.


House arrest will be a good idea too just to eliminate all other things that he could be eating.

Yes tough love is needed I'm afraid. When Riley came back form the referral vet I had to give him this horrible syrup stuff, very stressful but he had to have it so it went in (some how) he forgives me straight away thankfully! He knows when the door closes in the hallway keeping him in the hallway it's pill time! To keep him fairly relaxed when he is on my lap I some times just open his mouth then give him a fuss so he thinks that not every time I open his mouth something bad is going to happen!



Forester said:


> I'm sorry to hear about Roman's poo problems. Having a cat with suspected IBD is a great strain and I understand your feeling of mental and physical exhaustion sarah. I really hope that the Metronidazole works for Roman and that he will soon be feeling much better.
> 
> If its any help to you , my vet wanted to take a full thickness biopsy from my cat who has been suffering from chronic vomiting but I declined. She explained to me that it is an extremely invasive procedure , that the procedure can cause further damage to the intestines where the biopsy is taken from and that a lengthy recovery period is likely to be required after the surgery. I had said that I felt that it was imperative to find a cause of the vomiting as quickly as possible however I felt that the full thickness biopsy was too drastic a step. I opted for endoscopy with pinch biopsies. Nothing was found .
> 
> To update on Dylan, he's been at a cattery for 6 days and hasn't vomited at all. I'm also feeling much less stressed. I hadn't wanted to go away but the break has definitely relaxed me.
> 
> Its fantastic news that Riley, Meeko and Blue all appear to be doing well.


Pleased you had a relaxing time..you needed it! Also pleased to hear Dylan is doing "ok"

Any news on the results of the biopsy as yet?


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I'm sorry to hear about Roman's poo problems. Having a cat with suspected IBD is a great strain and I understand your feeling of mental and physical exhaustion sarah. I really hope that the Metronidazole works for Roman and that he will soon be feeling much better.
> 
> If its any help to you , my vet wanted to take a full thickness biopsy from my cat who has been suffering from chronic vomiting but I declined. She explained to me that it is an extremely invasive procedure , that the procedure can cause further damage to the intestines where the biopsy is taken from and that a lengthy recovery period is likely to be required after the surgery. I had said that I felt that it was imperative to find a cause of the vomiting as quickly as possible however I felt that the full thickness biopsy was too drastic a step. I opted for endoscopy with pinch biopsies. Nothing was found .
> 
> To update on Dylan, he's been at a cattery for 6 days and hasn't vomited at all. I'm also feeling much less stressed. I hadn't wanted to go away but the break has definitely relaxed me.
> 
> Its fantastic news that Riley, Meeko and Blue all appear to be doing well.


So good to read that Dylan has been fine in the cattery and that you were finally able to relax and enjoy your break.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> I'm sorry to hear about Roman's poo problems. Having a cat with suspected IBD is a great strain and I understand your feeling of mental and physical exhaustion sarah. I really hope that the Metronidazole works for Roman and that he will soon be feeling much better.
> 
> If its any help to you , my vet wanted to take a full thickness biopsy from my cat who has been suffering from chronic vomiting but I declined. She explained to me that it is an extremely invasive procedure , that the procedure can cause further damage to the intestines where the biopsy is taken from and that a lengthy recovery period is likely to be required after the surgery. I had said that I felt that it was imperative to find a cause of the vomiting as quickly as possible however I felt that the full thickness biopsy was too drastic a step. I opted for endoscopy with pinch biopsies. Nothing was found .
> 
> To update on Dylan, he's been at a cattery for 6 days and hasn't vomited at all. I'm also feeling much less stressed. I hadn't wanted to go away but the break has definitely relaxed me.
> 
> Its fantastic news that Riley, Meeko and Blue all appear to be doing well.


Thanks  xx

I'm defiantly going to request the endoscopy rather than the full thickness biopsy, I'm so glad I came on here and asked for advice as I was going to go for the full thickness biopsy, thinking they will find out more, but now knowing it's quite an invasive op I'm so so glad I asked, thank you all  xx

I'm glad to hear Dylan hasn't vomited  and that you are less stressed and relaxed


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks  xx
> 
> I'm defiantly going to request the endoscopy rather than the full thickness biopsy, I'm so glad I came on here and asked for advice as I was going to go for the full thickness biopsy, thinking they will find out more, but now knowing it's quite an invasive op I'm so so glad I asked, thank you all  xx
> 
> I'm glad to hear Dylan hasn't vomited  and that you are less stressed and relaxed


To be fair the full thickness would be a difinative answer if ibd or not..but it is a big operation..I think you are doing the right thing getting the endeoscopy and scan done first.

Now just to make you smile..as I've been worried Riley has been too "ok" of late, plus I've given up smoking (again) 13 days today (I'm on champix and having an awful time but hey I'm not smoking) ..I got myself in a bit of a tizz earlier...Riley went out came back in 30 mins later I was convinced he had had a bad time, lifted him up to check his bum and he was clean as a whistle......

.........I had to stop myself from kissing his bum :nono: : it was instinctive I tell you I'm going mad!!!!


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh these boys!!
> 
> House arrest will be a good idea too just to eliminate all other things that he could be eating.
> 
> Yes tough love is needed I'm afraid. When Riley came back form the referral vet I had to give him this horrible syrup stuff, very stressful but he had to have it so it went in (some how) he forgives me straight away thankfully! He knows when the door closes in the hallway keeping him in the hallway it's pill time! To keep him fairly relaxed when he is on my lap I some times just open his mouth then give him a fuss so he thinks that not every time I open his mouth something bad is going to happen!
> 
> Pleased you had a relaxing time..you needed it! Also pleased to hear Dylan is doing "ok"
> 
> Any news on the results of the biopsy as yet?


I agree house arrest is a good idea  we'll see how that goes.

The bathroom is the meds room  every other room they can hide org onto the top of the cat tree where I can't reach. Not silly? Far too clever these cats  

I'm going to try that when he's next on my lap.

He's now having some water


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Any news on the results of the biopsy as yet?


Yes , " Everything normal " My vet has made a point of stressing that the fact that nothing has been found doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing nasty going on just that if it is there then it hasn't been found. I hope that you can understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm much happier since collecting Dyl from the cattery. He seems back to his old happy self. He had started to look unhappy and nervous when eating. I suspect that it was because I had taken to watching him so closely when he was eating. I have now made a resolution not to watch him eat.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Yes , " Everything normal " My vet has made a point of stressing that the fact that nothing has been found doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing nasty going on just that if it is there then it hasn't been found. I hope that you can understand what I'm trying to say.
> 
> I'm much happier since collecting Dyl from the cattery. He seems back to his old happy self. He had started to look unhappy and nervous when eating. I suspect that it was because I had taken to watching him so closely when he was eating. I have now made a resolution not to watch him eat.


Understand completely!

Oh and good idea about not watching him so closely..hard not to do, done it myself..but good for us and them!

Sooo where did you go on hols?


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> To be fair the full thickness would be a difinative answer if ibd or not..but it is a big operation..I think you are doing the right thing getting the endeoscopy and scan done first.
> 
> Now just to make you smile..as I've been worried Riley has been too "ok" of late, plus I've given up smoking (again) 13 days today (I'm on champix and having an awful time but hey I'm not smoking) ..I got myself in a bit of a tizz earlier...Riley went out came back in 30 mins later I was convinced he had had a bad time, lifted him up to check his bum and he was clean as a whistle......
> 
> .........I had to stop myself from kissing his bum :nono: : it was instinctive I tell you I'm going mad!!!!


That did make me laugh  thank you   xx

I think I would have done the same :lol:

Well done on day 13 :thumbup: I've done nearly 8 months, but the longer the time without a ciggie the more cravings I'm getting, in all the times I've given up, there's been quite a few  this is the worst I've felt, I don't actually feel any different or better for giving up  I should be proud of myself as I've still got the unopened pack of 10 in the cupboard, I'm tempted several times a day but stop myself, I feel better I have them, just in case.


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> I'm glad to hear Dylan hasn't vomited  and that you are less stressed and relaxed


Thanks, I really didn't want to go away and I rang the cattery twice to enquire how he was but I'm sure that the break has relaxed both of us.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Understand completely!
> 
> Oh and good idea about not watching him so closely..hard not to do, done it myself..but good for us and them!
> 
> Sooo where did you go on hols?


Scarborough. OH wanted to go away and it served as a nostalgia trip for me as I'd been there many years ago in my student days. A good time was had by all.


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> ..I got myself in a bit of a tizz earlier...Riley went out came back in 30 mins later I was convinced he had had a bad time, lifted him up to check his bum and he was clean as a whistle......
> 
> .........I* had to stop myself from kissing his bum :nono: : it was instinctive I tell you I'm going mad*!!!!


:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bluecordelia

nicolaa123 said:


> To be fair the full thickness would be a difinative answer if ibd or not..but it is a big operation..I think you are doing the right thing getting the endeoscopy and scan done first.
> 
> Now just to make you smile..as I've been worried Riley has been too "ok" of late, plus I've given up smoking (again) 13 days today (I'm on champix and having an awful time but hey I'm not smoking) ..I got myself in a bit of a tizz earlier...Riley went out came back in 30 mins later I was convinced he had had a bad time, lifted him up to check his bum and he was clean as a whistle......
> 
> .........I had to stop myself from kissing his bum :nono: : it was instinctive I tell you I'm going mad!!!!


That champix stuff is lethal...l worked with a nurse who admitted that she felt so angry when on it but kept quiet as she would have been taken straight off...lots of positive thoughts for you..the cats ok x


----------



## bluecordelia

Forester said:


> Scarborough. OH wanted to go away and it served as a nostalgia trip for me as I'd been there many years ago in my student days. A good time was had by all.


I was in York last Sunday and my oh is playing Scarborough next week which is a bit of a long haul. Maybe Yorkshire breaks are needed to keep ib kits n mums sane x


----------



## Forester

bluecordelia said:


> I was in York last Sunday and my oh is playing Scarborough next week which is a bit of a long haul. Maybe Yorkshire breaks are needed to keep ib kits n mums sane x


Well , its definitely worked wonders here. Dylan is so, so happy to be home although he did have a whale of a time at the cattery. Apparently every time anyone went near his run he did his headstand then rolled over in anticipation of a tummy rub. Last night we spent the night gazing lovingly into each others eyes with lots of chin scratches and tummy rubs.( for him not me ) At one point I tried to read but he insisted on lying on top of the book so I gave up.

Today he's eating well and hasn't been sick.

Whilst in Scarborough I had wanted to find the site of a fountain which I'd bathed in at 2am on the last night of my visit all those years ago. I found it. Its been filled in now but I could see it from my bedroom window. Every time I looked out of the window it made me smile !


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Well , its definitely worked wonders here. Dylan is so, so happy to be home although he did have a whale of a time at the cattery. Apparently every time anyone went near his run he did his headstand then rolled over in anticipation of a tummy rub. Last night we spent the night gazing lovingly into each others eyes with lots of chin scratches and tummy rubs.( for him not me ) At one point I tried to read but he insisted on lying on top of the book so I gave up.
> 
> Today he's eating well and hasn't been sick.
> 
> Whilst in Scarborough I had wanted to find the site of a fountain which I'd bathed in at 2am on the last night of my visit all those years ago. I found it. Its been filled in now but I could see it from my bedroom window. Every time I looked out of the window it made me smile !


Good to hear you are recharged and Dylan is feeling ok


----------



## buffie

Good news all round,Dylan seems to have enjoyed his holiday as much as you did .This will make it so much easier if you want to have another break.
Excellent news regarding the lack of :arf: long may it continue.

Meeko managed to "decorate" his barrel with his supper in the early hours  Not the easiest thing to clean :frown2:


----------



## bluecordelia

buffie said:


> Good news all round,Dylan seems to have enjoyed his holiday as much as you did .This will make it so much easier if you want to have another break.
> Excellent news regarding the lack of :arf: long may it continue.
> 
> Meeko managed to "decorate" his barrel with his supper in the early hours  Not the easiest thing to clean :frown2:


The cooler weather has seen an increase in feeding. We are back on raw as I didn't want food out in heat and attracting flies. Poor Ivan has to eat what's good for blue but they are both shiny coated and chilled.

X


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Good news all round,Dylan seems to have enjoyed his holiday as much as you did .This will make it so much easier if you want to have another break.
> Excellent news regarding the lack of :arf: long may it continue.
> 
> Meeko managed to "decorate" his barrel with his supper in the early hours  Not the easiest thing to clean :frown2:


Oh no! Poor Meeko  hope he's ok now. Hope you got the barrel cleaned ok.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Oh no! Poor Meeko  hope he's ok now. Hope you got the barrel cleaned ok.


Thanks for asking,he's fine.He had a bit of a quiet day yesterday but we are so used to it that unless it carries on for more than a day or so it is considered as "normal".As for the barrel well it still smells of cleaning fluid but its better than vomit 

Hope tomorrow goes okay when you speak to your vet about what you want to do regarding tests with Roman.Let us know how it goes x


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Thanks for asking,he's fine.He had a bit of a quiet day yesterday but we are so used to it that unless it carries on for more than a day or so it is considered as "normal".As for the barrel well it still smells of cleaning fluid but its better than vomit
> 
> Hope tomorrow goes okay when you speak to your vet about what you want to do regarding tests with Roman.Let us know how it goes x


So glad Meeko is ok 

Thanks Buffie, I'll let you know how we get on. I think I'll be taking Roman back to the vet tomorrow, he still has runny poo and has been sick too this morning, he's only been eating a little chicken and fish and today is day 3 of the meds and there is no improvement xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> So glad Meeko is ok
> 
> Thanks Buffie, I'll let you know how we get on. I think I'll be taking Roman back to the vet tomorrow, he still has runny poo and has been sick too this morning, he's only been eating a little chicken and fish and today is day 3 of the meds and there is no improvement xx


Poor Roman and you too ,its horrible seeing them unwell and not being able to help them  Hope he is feeling better soon x


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Poor Roman and you too ,its horrible seeing them unwell and not being able to help them  Hope he is feeling better soon x


Thanks Buffie xx

Oh I know, poor little man  he was running up and down the hall way before using his tray  I have no idea if he's in pain or because he has a sore bum  I have put some Vaseline on just in case.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Buffie xx
> 
> Oh I know, poor little man  he was running up and down the hall way before using his tray  I have no idea if he's in pain or because he has a sore bum  I have put some Vaseline on just in case.


If only they could tell us how they are feeling


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> If only they could tell us how they are feeling


I wish they could.


----------



## holidaylover82

Hi All, 
New to this forum. Found it after spending the whole day googling as a last resort to help my dear old Kevin. He was diagnosed with IBD 7 years ago at the age of around 5. He has been quite happily living on royal canin sensitive for all those years until the vet gave him an anti-biotic for a UTI in April. The first anti-biotic tablet he took and the diarrhoea started  and he has never fully recovered. We have now tried various steroids, pro-biotics, hypo-allergenic diets, royal canin GI diets, fresh fish etc etc. He gets better for a few days and then back to runny tummy between 3 and up to 7 times a day! It is so very tiring and sad to see him fading away. He now only weighs 2.4kg! He is a bag of bones. He has no energy. Today I am thinking of a raw food diet and I am stopping his prednisone as it is doing NOTHING! I am looking for ideas, advice, experiences or anything that can help as he cannot go on like this for much longer. Thanks in advance xx


----------



## nicolaa123

holidaylover82 said:


> Hi All,
> New to this forum. Found it after spending the whole day googling as a last resort to help my dear old Kevin. He was diagnosed with IBD 7 years ago at the age of around 5. He has been quite happily living on royal canin sensitive for all those years until the vet gave him an anti-biotic for a UTI in April. The first anti-biotic tablet he took and the diarrhoea started  and he has never fully recovered. We have now tried various steroids, pro-biotics, hypo-allergenic diets, royal canin GI diets, fresh fish etc etc. He gets better for a few days and then back to runny tummy between 3 and up to 7 times a day! It is so very tiring and sad to see him fading away. He now only weighs 2.4kg! He is a bag of bones. He has no energy. Today I am thinking of a raw food diet and I am stopping his prednisone as it is doing NOTHING! I am looking for ideas, advice, experiences or anything that can help as he cannot go on like this for much longer. Thanks in advance xx


If all has been exhausted talk to your vet about an immunosuppressant drug. Mine has cholorambucil I'm convinced only thing keeping him we'll.

I'm on a train at the moment and one stop left so will reply more fully when I'm home.


----------



## holidaylover82

Hi, 

Thanks Nicolaa123 - all advice greatly recieved. The predisone is at an immunosupressant level (just) because of his weight but may be worth trying something else. 

Thanks x


----------



## nicolaa123

holidaylover82 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks Nicolaa123 - all advice greatly recieved. The predisone is at an immunosupressant level (just) because of his weight but may be worth trying something else.
> 
> Thanks x


Steroids did not make a difference to my cats condition at all even at a high dose accompanied by a high dose of metronidazole.

After taking the chlorambucil we saw improvement. As I understand it works differently to the prednisone, also can greatly reduce the amount of steriods needed for treatment, in our case zero steroids. Of course it has it's own risks.. There is also cyclosporine which if mine gets to the stage of needing more treatment would be the next step.

Can you give a bit of history to what led to the diagnosis of ibd. Has he had a recent full bloods done and has here been an ultrascan to check its not something else.

Have they tried vit b injections? Have they tested his blood count. Checked liver and pancreas?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Good news all round,Dylan seems to have enjoyed his holiday as much as you did .This will make it so much easier if you want to have another break.
> Excellent news regarding the lack of :arf: long may it continue.
> 
> Meeko managed to "decorate" his barrel with his supper in the early hours  Not the easiest thing to clean :frown2:


Sorry for late reply, at hospital today, two deaths on admission one a female that looking at size of nipples, there are now babies out there with out a mum..I'm so upset.

Hope it's just a one off for Meeko and "ok" ness starts again.


sarahecp said:


> So glad Meeko is ok
> 
> Thanks Buffie, I'll let you know how we get on. I think I'll be taking Roman back to the vet tomorrow, he still has runny poo and has been sick too this morning, he's only been eating a little chicken and fish and today is day 3 of the meds and there is no improvement xx


Hope you get on ok at the vets tomorrow, will be thinking of you xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for late reply, at hospital today, two deaths on admission one a female that looking at size of nipples, there are now babies out there with out a mum..I'm so upset.
> 
> Hope it's just a one off for Meeko and "ok" ness starts again.
> 
> Hope you get on ok at the vets tomorrow, will be thinking of you xx


Oh no, poor hogs  

((((Hugs)))) xx

Thanks Nicola xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for late reply, at hospital today, two deaths on admission one a female that looking at size of nipples, there are now babies out there with out a mum..I'm so upset.
> 
> Hope it's just a one off for Meeko and "ok" ness starts again.
> 
> Hope you get on ok at the vets tomorrow, will be thinking of you xx


So sorry about the hogs  If there are babies lets hope someone finds them,poor little things.

Meeko isn't too bothered these days if he is sick,usually just carries on regardless.Was a bit quieter yesterday but seems brighter today


----------



## holidaylover82

Hi 

Kevin had diarrhoea when he first arrived so they did lots of tests including a full endoscopy that led to the diagnosis. The vets think the anti-biotics for the UTI caused his IBD symptoms to increase and now we just cannot bring it back under control. He has had recent tests too showing nothing new. He has not had vit b injections. He is due back at vets on Thursday. 

At first the royal canin GI diet made a difference but then he went next door and ate a bowl of whiskers which seem to cause problems and now the G doesn't work. Feeding him very small amounts of chicken today as last night he had diarrhoea followed by 3 x sicking up his GI biscuits (completly undigested but he had gobbled them as he had been on wet GI all week). 

What food do others use?


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> So sorry about the hogs  If there are babies lets hope someone finds them,poor little things.
> 
> Meeko isn't too bothered these days if he is sick,usually just carries on regardless.Was a bit quieter yesterday but seems brighter today


I rang the finder and she is out looking for any babies so hopefully they will be found.

Good Meeko seems brighter today..


----------



## nicolaa123

holidaylover82 said:


> Hi
> 
> Kevin had diarrhoea when he first arrived so they did lots of tests including a full endoscopy that led to the diagnosis. The vets think the anti-biotics for the UTI caused his IBD symptoms to increase and now we just cannot bring it back under control. He has had recent tests too showing nothing new. He has not had vit b injections. He is due back at vets on Thursday.
> 
> At first the royal canin GI diet made a difference but then he went next door and ate a bowl of whiskers which seem to cause problems and now the G doesn't work. Feeding him very small amounts of chicken today as last night he had diarrhoea followed by 3 x sicking up his GI biscuits (completly undigested but he had gobbled them as he had been on wet GI all week).
> 
> What food do others use?


What recent tests did they do? Sorry for questions..only with ibd as you will be aware it can en affect the liver and pancreas.

Food wise, Riley has grain free kanagroo cat food from vet concept. I dream of finding him another tolerable food, but so far it's just kangaroo..


----------



## Forester

Just wanted to send " good luck" wishes to Sarah and Roman for the visit to the vets tomorrow. I will be thinking of you. Perhaps an alternative antibiotic might help him. Its horrible to see them suffering and to be unable to do anything to help them .

Hoping that Meeko has just had an isolated bad day and is now feeling better.

Sending a virtual ((( Hug ))) for Nicola.

holidaylover82. I'm really sorry that your cat is currently feeling so poorly. I'm afraid that I don't have any suggestions as I am relatively inexperienced in IBD issues myself.On a positive note I'd like to say that by joining this forum you have found the most wonderful support network imaginable. Without the support of members of this forum I personally would have torn all of my hair out long before now.

Best wishes to all other IBD cats and slaves.


----------



## sarahecp

Thanks Forester xx


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi all

Sorry we have 2 new kits in the thread but welcome. 

You will get top advice and practical help too. Blue is on raw food. She has settled a lot since December. She was a dire rear cat where as riley n meeko have problems the other end.

Just a note. This morning she had mackerel... !!! I will be avoiding this in the future as we have had 2visits and an open window all day.

Hope everyone ok and coping. I have opened the door 3 times for her and I feel the wind is too much. X


----------



## nicolaa123

bluecordelia said:


> Hi all
> 
> Sorry we have 2 new kits in the thread but welcome.
> 
> You will get top advice and practical help too. Blue is on raw food. She has settled a lot since December. She was a dire rear cat where as riley n meeko have problems the other end.
> 
> Just a note. This morning she had mackerel... !!! I will be avoiding this in the future as we have had 2visits and an open window all day.
> 
> Hope everyone ok and coping. I have opened the door 3 times for her and I feel the wind is too much. X


Sorry to year mackerel caused issues..hope blue recovers well..

Oh and Riley's ibd is the rear end  Hence my bottom fascination :biggrin5:


----------



## sarahecp

We're back from the vets, he said to continue with the metronidazole and boiled fish rather than the chicken. 

We spoke about options again and he agreed with having full bloods, white blood cell count, epi, scan and endoscopy. He said he would prefer not to do the full thickness biopsy. So he said he would put a call in to the refereal centre. (I got it wrong before and thought the endoscopy would be done there not at refereal place). 

We'd been home 10 mins when a lady from the Davies Vetinary Specialists called to make an appointment, we've got to be there at 11:15 tomorrow, I'm really pleased we've got an appointment so quick. The referral centre is in Higham Gobion, Herts. My vet said he thinks very highly of them, anyone with experience with them?


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> We're back from the vets, he said to continue with the metronidazole and boiled fish rather than the chicken.
> 
> We spoke about options again and he agreed with having full bloods, white blood cell count, epi, scan and endoscopy. He said he would prefer not to do the full thickness biopsy. So he said he would put a call in to the refereal centre. (I got it wrong before and thought the endoscopy would be done there not at refereal place).
> 
> We'd been home 10 mins when a lady from the Davies Vetinary Specialists called to make an appointment, we've got to be there at 11:15 tomorrow, I'm really pleased we've got an appointment so quick. The referral centre is in Higham Gobion, Herts. My vet said he thinks very highly of them, anyone with experience with them?


Thanks for the update,you must be feeling a bit more positive now that there is a "plan".I would have hoped that with all the tests that are being done there will be a diagnosis without any need in a full thickness biopsy.
Obviously not being anywhere near you I have no knowledge of the Veterinary Specialists you mention but can say that the referral Meeko had was very thorough and the staff were excellent.
How is Roman today,hope he is feeling better x


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> We're back from the vets, he said to continue with the metronidazole and boiled fish rather than the chicken.
> 
> We spoke about options again and he agreed with having full bloods, white blood cell count, epi, scan and endoscopy. He said he would prefer not to do the full thickness biopsy. So he said he would put a call in to the refereal centre. (I got it wrong before and thought the endoscopy would be done there not at refereal place).
> 
> We'd been home 10 mins when a lady from the Davies Vetinary Specialists called to make an appointment, we've got to be there at 11:15 tomorrow, I'm really pleased we've got an appointment so quick. The referral centre is in Higham Gobion, Herts. My vet said he thinks very highly of them, anyone with experience with them?


It's the same one that Riley went too so can highly recommend them. Will he stay overnight with them or are you starving from today?

Do you know who you are seeing?


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Thanks for the update,you must be feeling a bit more positive now that there is a "plan".I would have hoped that with all the tests that are being done there will be a diagnosis without any need in a full thickness biopsy.
> Obviously not being anywhere near you I have no knowledge of the Veterinary Specialists you mention but can say that the referral Meeko had was very thorough and the staff were excellent.
> How is Roman today,hope he is feeling better x


I do feel better that we're getting somewhere now and quick too 

Roman is still much the same, though he has livened up a bit this afternoon  only one poo so far today but still runny, he refused the chicken and fish this morning so I opened some Hills I/d food, he actually ate a little bit of that  just cooking some more cod.

Oh I need to starve him from 8pm tonight just in case they need to put him out for any procedures or we may need to go back for them. That's going to be fun with 3 cats


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I do feel better that we're getting somewhere now and quick too
> 
> Roman is still much the same, though he has livened up a bit this afternoon  only one poo so far today but still runny, he refused the chicken and fish this morning so I opened some Hills I/d food, he actually ate a little bit of that  just cooking some more cod.
> 
> Oh I need to starve him from 8pm tonight just in case they need to put him out for any procedures or we may need to go back for them. That's going to be fun with 3 cats


Poor Roman,you can bet your life that tonight and tomorrow morning he will be "starving" and wondering why his slave is not feeding him 
Hopefully the picture will be a lot clearer by tomorrow evening,sending lots of positive vibes to you both x


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> It's the same one that Riley went too so can highly recommend them. Will he stay overnight with them or are you starving from today?
> 
> Do you know who you are seeing?


Sorry Nicola, only just seen your reply x

I'm glad you highly recommend 

They didn't mention staying overnight, just need to starve from 8pm tonight.

We are seeing Patricia Ibarrola, the lady that phoned and in the confirmation email said it will be a 45 min consultation and he could be admitted there and then.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Poor Roman,you can bet your life that tonight and tomorrow morning he will be "starving" and wondering why his slave is not feeding him
> Hopefully the picture will be a lot clearer by tomorrow evening,sending lots of positive vibes to you both x


Of course he'll be starving 

Thanks Buffie xx


----------



## Forester

Sarah, I'm pleased to hear that your vets are acting swiftly to establish what is causing Roman's problems. Hopefully you will soon have an answer so can formulate a plan rather than going round in circles. Sending lots of positive vibes for you both tomorrow . Its good to know that the Referral Centre comes " highly recommended".


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Sarah, I'm pleased to hear that your vets are acting swiftly to establish what is causing Roman's problems. Hopefully you will soon have an answer so can formulate a plan rather than going round in circles. Sending lots of positive vibes for you both tomorrow . Its good to know that the Referral Centre comes " highly recommended".


Thanks Forester xx

My vet said he was going to call them, but I wasn't expecting a call and appointment that quick, I'm really impressed 

Fingers crossed we can have a plan of action in place soon. What scares me is Roman is such a fussy so and so with food  he loves his food but is he fussy oh and stubborn with it


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Sorry Nicola, only just seen your reply x
> 
> I'm glad you highly recommend
> 
> They didn't mention staying overnight, just need to starve from 8pm tonight.
> 
> We are seeing Patricia Ibarrola, the lady that phoned and in the confirmation email said it will be a 45 min consultation and he could be admitted there and then.


We saw Polly Fraude. They are very good there I a confident Roman will be treated very well. It's a shame I'm at work tomorrow otherwise I could have met you..you will be right on my doorstep!

Take a pad an pen with you and don't be afraid to write what they say down. Alwo what I found really helped, was to write down the history of Riley's symptoms, what has been tried etc etc. then I had a long list of questions for them  which I wrote down the answers given.

They will talk over options with you, if you can try and make a decision there and then as he can then be admitted and have the tests rather than come back. Make sure you pack him an overnight bag, food he will eat when he is allowed too a toy and something that smells of you..

They have a cat only ward and play music to them to soothe them. There is also a cat only waiting area. They also have specialists there for everything! The bill will be quite hefty, they break it all down cost by cost. I arranged with my insurance to pay direct to them, but you might not have enough time to do that now..I can dig out the costs if that would help?

Please try not to worry he will be in very good hands and receive very good care xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> We saw Polly Fraude. They are very good there I a confident Roman will be treated very well. It's a shame I'm at work tomorrow otherwise I could have met you..you will be right on my doorstep!
> 
> Take a pad an pen with you and don't be afraid to write what they say down. Alwo what I found really helped, was to write down the history of Riley's symptoms, what has been tried etc etc. then I had a long list of questions for them  which I wrote down the answers given.
> 
> They will talk over options with you, if you can try and make a decision there and then as he can then be admitted and have the tests rather than come back. Make sure you pack him an overnight bag, food he will eat when he is allowed too a toy and something that smells of you..
> 
> They have a cat only ward and play music to them to soothe them. There is also a cat only waiting area. They also have specialists there for everything! The bill will be quite hefty, they break it all down cost by cost. I arranged with my insurance to pay direct to them, but you might not have enough time to do that now..I can dig out the costs if that would help?
> 
> Please try not to worry he will be in very good hands and receive very good care xx


I feel a lot better that you've been there with Riley and you have confidence in them, thank you xx it sounds like a really lovely place, playing music sounds cool  the lady that rang seemed really nice too 

It's a shame you are at work, would have been lovely to have met up, I was off work today, not feeling great so will take another sicky tomorrow, they're not very understanding at work and holiday at short notice is a no no 

Thanks for the tips  I've now wrote some notes on his history, right from the beginning. Why is it when you know you should be asking questions your mind goes blank?! Been staring at a blank page for ages now and can't think of anything  I'm sure it will all come back to me. I've put the note book in my bag, until I can think.

I've packed an overnight bag for Roman, it sounds so nice I might pack one for me too 

My vet said that this is the most expensive option but didn't give me any idea of costs. I'd be really grateful if you wouldn't mind letting me know the costs. I'm not sure if PetPlan would pay direct, I could always give them a call in the morning, think they open at 8 and ask. It's about a hour and 20-30 mins from me so think we'll give ourselves 2 hours just to be on the safe side as my sat nav cannot always be trusted 

Thanks again xxx


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok.. Types of questions I asked was 

What tests will be done
What could the outcome be
Asked about different diets
Asked about what treatment options there could be
Asked about aftercare
What happens if ibd and the future
Why do you think you will find anything different than my vet has



I appreciate with Riley ibd was very likely and we was just 99.9 confirming it. 

Ok costs, this was July last year so may have changed

Consult was 187.50 
Endeoscopy was £122.35
Ultra scan was £245

He also had bloods done and was an overnight stay plus the biopsies investigated and nursing care et etc

Total bill was with vat £1811.20

I rang my insurance company and also the accounts dept at Davies, had to produce an insurance document and all I paid was £25.

All will go well tomorrow I'm sure. It's bad enough dropping them at the vets, but taking then some where new that you don't know can be very scarey, they will I'm sure fall I love with roman!!


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Sarah, I'm pleased to hear that your vets are acting swiftly to establish what is causing Roman's problems. Hopefully you will soon have an answer so can formulate a plan rather than going round in circles. Sending lots of positive vibes for you both tomorrow . Its good to know that the Referral Centre comes " highly recommended".


How is Dylan today?? Hopefully still doing well, has your vet suggested the next steps?

Riley continues to be "ok" tho I've noticed last 24 hours not much interest in food.. Will keep an eye on him


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok.. Types of questions I asked was
> 
> What tests will be done
> What could the outcome be
> Asked about different diets
> Asked about what treatment options there could be
> Asked about aftercare
> What happens if ibd and the future
> Why do you think you will find anything different than my vet has
> 
> I appreciate with Riley bid was very likely and we was just 99.9 confirming it.
> 
> Ok costs, this was July last year so may have changed
> 
> Consult was 187.50
> Endeoscopy was £122.35
> Ultra scan was £245
> 
> He also had bloods done and was an overnight stay plus the biopsies investigated and nursing care et etc
> 
> Total bill was with vat £1811.20
> 
> I rang by insurance company and also the accounts dept at Davies, had to produce an insurance document and all I paid was £25.
> 
> All will go well tomorrow I'm sure. It's bad enough dropping them at the vets, but taking then some where new that you don't know can be very scarey, they will I'm sure fall I love with roman!!


Some very good questions, really helpful 

The costs are lower than I thought, thanks for that, I imagined it to be thousands.

And thanks again for the reassurance, I am scared and worried but you have made me feel a lot better xxx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Some very good questions, really helpful
> 
> The costs are lower than I thought, thanks for that, I imagined it to be thousands.
> 
> And thanks again for the reassurance, I am scared and worried but you have made me feel a lot better xxx


I don't mind admitting I was in bits before I took Riley!! He was very poorly at that time, different cat now he really is!!

You are more than welcome for the reassurance happy to help! I was really nervous about the costs being thousands too! I was quite surprised at the costs!

Be thinking of you both xx


----------



## buffie

Sarah , Meeko's insured with Pet Plan ,they paid direct to the vet Hospital.I just phoned to let them known he was going and to clear it with them about the claim.As it was an ongoing condition which had already had the excess paid for that year it didn't cost me a penny,they just claimed directly from Pet Plan.
Hope it all goes well tomorrow, sending some more positive vibes x


----------



## nicolaa123

Was just looking back on the thread when Riley went there when is was 3.95 kg  so thin he is still slimmer than I would like but what a difference a year makes!


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I don't mind admitting I was in bits before I took Riley!! He was very poorly at that time, different cat now he really is!!
> 
> You are more than welcome for the reassurance happy to help! I was really nervous about the costs being thousands too! I was quite surprised at the costs!
> 
> Be thinking of you both xx


Just had to give Seb some sneaky food while Roman is upstairs, trying to open a tin quietly is impossible, he didn't come downstairs, Seb's eaten it's now safe 

I'm always in bits, always think the worse too. I tell myself it's normal to worry because it is.

I'm off to bed in a bit, to try and get some sleep.

Night all xx xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Just had to give Seb some sneaky food while Roman is upstairs, trying to open a tin quietly is impossible, he didn't come downstairs, Seb's eaten it's now safe
> 
> I'm always in bits, always think the worse too. I tell myself it's normal to worry because it is.
> 
> I'm off to bed in a bit, to try and get some sleep.
> 
> Night all xx xx


Night , hope you manage to get a good nights sleep xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Was just looking back on the thread when Riley went there when is was 3.95 kg  so thin he is still slimmer than I would like but what a difference a year makes!


Its weird the way their weight goes up and down,I know with Meeko it doesn't always follow a pattern of eating well or not so well


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Sarah , Meeko's insured with Pet Plan ,they paid direct to the vet Hospital.I just phoned to let them known he was going and to clear it with them about the claim.As it was an ongoing condition which had already had the excess paid for that year it didn't cost me a penny,they just claimed directly from Pet Plan.
> Hope it all goes well tomorrow, sending some more positive vibes x


I'll defiantly give them a call in the morning, I've never claimed for Roman's poo issues only his asthma, I'll see what they say.

Thanks for the the positive vibes  xx



nicolaa123 said:


> Was just looking back on the thread when Riley went there when is was 3.95 kg  so thin he is still slimmer than I would like but what a difference a year makes!


What does Riley weigh now?


----------



## nicolaa123

He is now 4.23kg and more importantly he is stable!

Wishing you both well for today xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> He is now 4.23kg and more importantly he is stable!
> 
> Wishing you both well for today xx


That's great news, way to go Riley :thumbup:

Thank you xxx

I've spoken to PetPlan, they are happy to pay directly as long as DVS are happy with that, I just need to pay the excess.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> How is Dylan today?? Hopefully still doing well, has your vet suggested the next steps?
> 
> Riley continues to be "ok" tho I've noticed last 24 hours not much interest in food.. Will keep an eye on him


Sorry, I've only just seen this , I just logged on to send my " good luck " wishes to Sarah and Roman.

Dylan seems o k. He has only been sick twice since just before the endoscopy ,( 3 weeks ago tomorrow) and seems happy although not eating as well as I would like. The 2 " returns" came after I gave him some Applaws chicken and rice. He's been fine with the sensitivity control and RC gastro intestinal. I'm due to collect some z/d to try at my vets suggestion . When she suggested it he was vomiting on the SC but tbh I can't really see the point in it now. She is on leave this week so I can't discus with her till next week. The plan was to try steroids after the z/d .

Best wishes to all.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Sorry, I've only just seen this , I just logged on to send my " good luck " wishes to Sarah and Roman.
> 
> Dylan seems o k. He has only been sick twice since just before the endoscopy ,( 3 weeks ago tomorrow) and seems happy although not eating as well as I would like. The 2 " returns" came after I gave him some Applaws chicken and rice. He's been fine with the sensitivity control and RC gastro intestinal. I'm due to collect some z/d to try at my vets suggestion . When she suggested it he was vomiting on the SC but tbh I can't really see the point in it now. She is on leave this week so I can't discus with her till next week. The plan was to try steroids after the z/d .
> 
> Best wishes to all.


Just my take on this but I would be reluctant to rock the boat right now.If it was me I would keep him on the food he is on until you can talk to your vet,hope Dylan continues to keep his food to himself  x


----------



## Paddypaws

was just browsing on lillysbar and saw these cans
Steakhouse Reinfleischprodukte - Lilly
which i thought might be useful for anyone looking for novel proteins to feed.


----------



## Forester

Paddypaws said:


> was just browsing on lillysbar and saw these cans
> Steakhouse Reinfleischprodukte - Lilly
> which i thought might be useful for anyone looking for novel proteins to feed.


Oooh , Thanks PP. That looks like a good source of foods to try . 

I'm going to add them to my list to try in the never ending quest for something which doesn't get rejected. I had been starting to think that I'd tried most of the single protein options available.


----------



## buffie

Paddypaws said:


> was just browsing on lillysbar and saw these cans
> Steakhouse Reinfleischprodukte - Lilly
> which i thought might be useful for anyone looking for novel proteins to feed.


Thanks for the info PP's I'm sure Mr Fussy wont eat any but there are others who are less picky :thumbsup:


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Just my take on this but I would be reluctant to rock the boat right now.If it was me I would keep him on the food he is on until you can talk to your vet,hope Dylan continues to keep his food to himself  x


I'm doing it because I agreed to try it and I'm a woman of my word, if nothing else. He's fine on the SC and GI at the moment but has been on them in the past whilst vomiting a couple of times a week. TBH I don't know whether he is going to eat it anyway. I've just opened a can and he took a couple of bites but then walked away . Nicola's observation that it looked like plastic is oh so accurate.

He used to eat anything but has now become very fussy. He's just eaten a little of OH's cod from the fish and chip shop but flatly refused the cod fillets which I so lovingly cooked for him. I don't think that my cooking is too bad. Others have eaten in my kitchen and grown up to be perfectly normal .


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I'm doing it because I agreed to try it and I'm a woman of my word, if nothing else. He's fine on the SC and GI at the moment but has been on them in the past whilst vomiting a couple of times a week. TBH I don't know whether he is going to eat it anyway. *I've just opened a can and he took a couple of bites but then walked away .* Nicola's observation that it looked like plastic is oh so accurate.
> 
> He used to eat anything but has now become very fussy. He's just eaten a little of OH's cod from the fish and chip shop but flatly refused the cod fillets which I so lovingly cooked for him. I don't think that my cooking is too bad. Others have eaten in my kitchen and grown up to be perfectly normal .


Meeko was given some to try in the early days and I have to say it looked disgusting and I'm sure couldn't have tasted much better,he didn't even give it a disgusted sniff,he just walked away.He did give the dry a go but didn't last very long.
Sorry if I have missed this,but is he still on the Ranitidine tablets


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Meeko was given some to try in the early days and I have to say it looked disgusting and I'm sure couldn't have tasted much better,he didn't even give it a disgusted sniff,he just walked away.He did give the dry a go but didn't last very long.
> Sorry if I have missed this,but is he still on the Ranitidine tablets


No, he's not on Ranitidine any more. I was told to stop that when I rang the vets in a panic when he was so poorly prior to the endoscopy.

Incidently , we did once go 23 days without " returns" when he first started the Sensitivity Control. Unfortunately after lulling me into thinking that I'd found a solution the periods without " returns " gradually reduced in length. The ranitidine reduced the incidence of " breakfast" vomiting but there was a corresponding increase in vomiting at other times. 

My current concern is that he used to have a voracious appetite but that has dwindled and I am struggling to get him to eat.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> No, he's not on Ranitidine any more. I was told to stop that when I rang the vets in a panic when he was so poorly prior to the endoscopy.
> 
> Incidently , we did once go 23 days without " returns" when he first started the Sensitivity Control. Unfortunately after lulling me into thinking that I'd found a solution the periods without " returns " gradually reduced in length. The ranitidine reduced the incidence of " breakfast" vomiting but there was a corresponding increase in vomiting at other times.
> 
> My current concern is that he used to have a voracious appetite but that has dwindled and I am struggling to get him to eat.


There just doesnt seem to be any real "pattern" going on with any of our IBD furbabes 
How is Dylans weight at the moment,has he lost much/maintaining his weight with his reduced/fussy approach to food .
Meeko has lost a bit but not as much as I might have expected with his reduced appetite.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> There just doesnt seem to be any real "pattern" going on with any of our IBD furbabes
> How is Dylans weight at the moment,has he lost much/maintaining his weight with his reduced/fussy approach to food .
> Meeko has lost a bit but not as much as I might have expected with his reduced appetite.


I suspect that he's lost some but I'm trying to resist weighing him as I know that it will throw me into a panic again. I'm trying to take heart from the fact that the only times that he's vomited in the last 3 weeks were days when I'd given him Applaws chicken and rice. He seems happy enough and still has daily sessions of racing around like a loony .

I'm not having a good day today. My mare broke through the electric fencing for the first time ever last night. I found her stood in an acre of grass. She's currently shut in the stable with a deep bed and soaked hay. I've been hosing feet and trying to make frog supports


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> I suspect that he's lost some but I'm trying to resist weighing him as I know that it will throw me into a panic again. I'm trying to take heart from the fact that the only times that he's vomited in the last 3 weeks were days when I'd given him Applaws chicken and rice. He seems happy enough and still has daily sessions of racing around like a loony .
> 
> I'm not having a good day today. My mare broke through the electric fencing for the first time ever last night. I found her stood in an acre of grass. She's currently shut in the stable with a deep bed and soaked hay. I've been hosing feet and trying to make frog supports


Oh hell  Hope she is okay,Laura used a mix that set like a rubbery/cement type stuff which helped a fair bit,cant remember what it is called though ,Her farrier was so impressed with it she gave him what was left when Quela was PTS.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Oh hell  Hope she is okay,Laura used a mix that set like a rubbery/cement type stuff which helped a fair bit,cant remember what it is called though ,Her farrier was so impressed with it she gave him what was left when Quela was PTS.


I cut up a dense foam " kneeler" that I used to use in the garden . I only had enough to do 3 feet so just did the fronts. I'm trying to tell myself that she can't have been there long as only 1 pile of droppings in the main field, most were in her turnout area.

I asked one of the vets when I went to collect Dylan's z/d whether there was anything else I could do and she replied that she couldn't think of anything else. Mabel can't have bute as it gives her dire rear. The nervous waiting begins. . . .. I will be hosing again in the morning.

I do wish that we had a " fingers crossed" smilie.


----------



## nicolaa123

My internet / forum is playing up 

Pp thanks for link, I will be very interested in the goat, need to look through a translator for the ingredients!

Sorry you are having a bad day slyv, fingers crossed all will be ok..

Any news from Sarah as yet?

Anyone watching bbc2. It's about young vets

Hope Meeko is feeling better and not decorating his toys


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> My internet / forum is playing up
> 
> Pp thanks for link, I will be very interested in the goat, need to look through a translator for the ingredients!
> 
> Sorry you are having a bad day slyv, fingers crossed all will be ok..
> 
> Any news from Sarah as yet?
> 
> Anyone watching bbc2. It's about young vets
> 
> Hope Meeko is feeling better and not decorating his toys


No news from Sarah , yet. I'm waiting too.

I just weighed Dylan . 5.0kg. He was 5.1kg a month ago and 5.3kg 11 months ago.


----------



## sarahecp

It's been a long day! We got home just after 6pm

Roman has a shaved tummy and front legs  

Roman had bloods and ultra scan. I've attached the notes.

Patricia wants to wait for the blood results before deciding on an endoscopy. She is on holiday next week but will ask one of her colleagues to call me if and when the results are back.

Patricia was very nice, explained things well in a way I understood  we talked all about his medical history including his asthma and medication he is on and taken previously. Before the tests she said her thoughts on IBD could be unlikely because when he was on a 2 week course of Prednisone for his asthma there was no change in his stools, but then said she wouldn't be able confirm until after the tests.

We also talked about food, she advised hypoallergenic foods and gave me a diet sheet with her recommendations on -

Hills d/d venison formula wet
Hills d/d venison & green pea dry
Hills z/d ultra allergen free wet
Hills z/d low allergen dry

Royal Canin hypoallergenic dry
Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice dry
Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice wet

James Wellbeloved all dry
Turkey & rice
Lamb & rice
Duck & rice

So not sure what to go for, especially with Roman being so fussy. She wants us to avoid chicken and fish. Any advice would be good.

xx


----------



## sarahecp

Sorry I took so long to post been having probs too, everything I went to post PF crashed


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> It's been a long day! We got home just after 6pm
> 
> Roman has a shaved tummy and front legs
> 
> Roman had bloods and ultra scan. I've attached the notes.
> 
> Patricia wants to wait for the blood results before deciding on an endoscopy. She is on holiday next week but will ask one of her colleagues to call me if and when the results are back.
> 
> Patricia was very nice, explained things well in a way I understood  we talked all about his medical history including his asthma and medication he is on and taken previously. Before the tests she said her thoughts on IBD could be unlikely because when he was on a 2 week course of Prednisone for his asthma there was no change in his stools, but then said she wouldn't be able confirm until after the tests.
> 
> We also talked about food, she advised hypoallergenic foods and gave me a diet sheet with her recommendations on -
> 
> Hills d/d venison formula wet
> Hills d/d venison & green pea dry
> Hills z/d ultra allergen free wet
> Hills z/d low allergen dry
> 
> Royal Canin hypoallergenic dry
> Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice dry
> Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice wet
> 
> James Wellbeloved all dry
> Turkey & rice
> Lamb & rice
> Duck & rice
> 
> So not sure what to go for, especially with Roman being so fussy. She wants us to avoid chicken and fish. Any advice would be good.
> 
> xx


Sarah, If you'd like a can of the Hills z/d wet to try before buying a load I can supply you with one. I've just collected 24. If you'd like one please PM your details . Dylan doesn't seem very keen. It certainly doesn't look very appetising.


----------



## Forester

Sarah, the RC Sensitivity Control pouches are chicken and rice and not duck and rice so you might want to exclude this from your list of options.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> It's been a long day! We got home just after 6pm
> 
> Roman has a shaved tummy and front legs
> 
> Roman had bloods and ultra scan. I've attached the notes.
> 
> Patricia wants to wait for the blood results before deciding on an endoscopy. She is on holiday next week but will ask one of her colleagues to call me if and when the results are back.
> 
> Patricia was very nice, explained things well in a way I understood  we talked all about his medical history including his asthma and medication he is on and taken previously. Before the tests she said her thoughts on IBD could be unlikely because when he was on a 2 week course of Prednisone for his asthma there was no change in his stools, but then said she wouldn't be able confirm until after the tests.
> 
> We also talked about food, she advised hypoallergenic foods and gave me a diet sheet with her recommendations on -
> 
> Hills d/d venison formula wet
> Hills d/d venison & green pea dry
> Hills z/d ultra allergen free wet
> Hills z/d low allergen dry
> 
> Royal Canin hypoallergenic dry
> Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice dry
> Royal Canin sensitivity control duck & rice wet
> 
> James Wellbeloved all dry
> Turkey & rice
> Lamb & rice
> Duck & rice
> 
> So not sure what to go for, especially with Roman being so fussy. She wants us to avoid chicken and fish. Any advice would be good.
> 
> xx


Pleased you are both home and I bet you can't stop touching his tummy 

It's difficult to comment with out the results so I wouldn't be thinking anything at this stage. Pred doesn't always improve symptoms in all cats, even when riley was on a high dose it had no effect  which in one way I was pleased as it's not a choice of drug I would like for a long time.

Interested they gave a b12 injection did they say why?

As for food, I would say get one of each and see what he will eat. Is he a wet or dry muncher? Getting him stable is key so whether that's dry or wet or hills or rc is irrelevant. The d/d is more palatable than the z/d wet, has he had venison before?

Its a shame you have a fussy one too..I'm guessing raw is off the menu. Does he eat rabbit? Rabbit is meant to be great for tummy woes. Riley doesn't like rabbit 

Did they explain the mild enlargement of the lymph nodes? Possibly as he has been unwell?

Pleased all went well x


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> No news from Sarah , yet. I'm waiting too.
> 
> I just weighed Dylan . 5.0kg. He was 5.1kg a month ago and 5.3kg 11 months ago.


Are the weights always on the same scales?

I know you said that steroids will be the next step if the z/d doesn't work..it's just plastic yuck!! How long has the vet said to give before trying the steroids?

Such a shame about the kangaroo..did you try the goat?


----------



## buffie

Nothing much to add to Nicola's post but would add that steroids had no effect on Meeko either,although as I already said he sends food back rather than out the other end.
Cant comment on the foods either as Meeko just wouldn't entertain any of them,such a shame his food trials were a good while back as we had lots of samples that I could have sent you to try.
Will be interesting to see what the results are when they all come back,it hopefully will make things a bit clearer.
Glad Roman is back home and none the worse for his adventure


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> No news from Sarah , yet. I'm waiting too.
> 
> I just weighed Dylan . 5.0kg. He was 5.1kg a month ago and 5.3kg 11 months ago.


These weights don't look bad to me ,something to keep in mind is,whether he has just been fed/had a poo etc before being weighed.
Meeko's weight has been up and down for the last 2 years since being diagnosed.He was 5.5kg when he was first diagnosed with IBD , his weight dropped to 5.kg's crept up a bit and then dropped to 4.6kg it is at the moment 4.8kg but I think a lot of that has to do with cutting out his dry food as much as anything.Vet says he is spot on for body condition and is definitely not thin.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Are the weights always on the same scales?
> 
> I know you said that steroids will be the next step if the z/d doesn't work..it's just plastic yuck!! How long has the vet said to give before trying the steroids?
> 
> Such a shame about the kangaroo..did you try the goat?


Yes, always the same scales. 
She said that I only needed to try the z/d for a week. I don't really understand that as he's currently gone about 12 days without vomiting. I should have thought to query it at the time but I was on the phone and I don't tend to think as clearly then as I do in a consultation.

I haven't tried the goat. We've always been in a position where he's been restricted to a specific type of food at any time with no opportunity for experimentation. He *was* o k on the kangaroo for the first can. It was only after I bought 18 cans that he started to vomit with it. It was the same with the Ropocat chicken, ( as well as the Ropo lamb, and the fresh rabbit)


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> These weights don't look bad to me ,something to keep in mind is,whether he has just been fed/had a poo etc before being weighed.
> Meeko's weight has been up and down for the last 2 years since being diagnosed.He was 5.5kg when he was first diagnosed with IBD , his weight dropped to 5.kg's crept up a bit and then dropped to 4.6kg it is at the moment 4.8kg but I think a lot of that has to do with cutting out his dry food as much as anything.Vet says he is spot on for body condition and is definitely not thin.


Meeko certainly looks in fantastic condition in the recent photos that I've seen.

Dylan looks slim but well so I will try not to worry about it. I know that he was picking up on my concern about his poor appetite just before I went away. I'm trying to just put the food down and not bother him as I don't want to make him nervous about eating. Last time I took him to the vet she told me that there was no need for her to see him as long as he remains the same. She told me just to ring up to discuss progress/ options.


----------



## nicolaa123

I try not to be too fixated with weight and more on body condition at Riley's worse he was barely a 2/4 you could feel his spine and hips with out any pressure and he had a very noticeable waist..

I would say right now we are looking at a 2.75-3. I can still feel is spine easily and his hips and he still has a noticeable waist, as said too slim for my liking but his weight is stable and that's the best we can hope for right now..this is despite the last month or so him eating 400g of food per day  his body just doesn't absorb the calories..I wish mine didn't!


----------



## nicolaa123

I would take a photo but as usual, he is on my lap snoozing..of course at silly o'clock he will be awake and I won't be allowed to sleep!


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> I try not to be too fixated with weight and more on body condition at Riley's worse he was barely a 2/4 you could feel his spine and hips with out any pressure and he had a very noticeable waist..
> 
> I would say right now we are looking at a 2.75-3. I can still feel is spine easily and his hips and he still has a noticeable waist, as said too slim for my liking but his weight is stable and that's the best we can hope for right now..this is despite the last month or so him eating 400g of food per day  his body just doesn't absorb the calories..I wish mine didn't!


If only we could transfer a little surplus weight to our masters. It would be win, win all round.


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok not the best photo..he looks really uncomfortable..:nonod: actually my leg has gone dead


----------



## sarahecp

This has taken me forever to reply, my internet is driving me mad tonight :mad2:



Forester said:


> Sarah, If you'd like a can of the Hills z/d wet to try before buying a load I can supply you with one. I've just collected 24. If you'd like one please PM your details . Dylan doesn't seem very keen. It certainly doesn't look very appetising.





Forester said:


> Sarah, the RC Sensitivity Control pouches are chicken and rice and not duck and rice so you might want to exclude this from your list of options.


We've tried the Hills z/d and he wasn't keen, thanks for the offer  xx

Thanks for pointing out about the chicken and rice 



nicolaa123 said:


> Pleased you are both home and I bet you can't stop touching his tummy
> 
> It's difficult to comment with out the results so I wouldn't be thinking anything at this stage. Pred doesn't always improve symptoms in all cats, even when riley was on a high dose it had no effect  which in one way I was pleased as it's not a choice of drug I would like for a long time.
> 
> Interested they gave a b12 injection did they say why?
> 
> As for food, I would say get one of each and see what he will eat. Is he a wet or dry muncher? Getting him stable is key so whether that's dry or wet or hills or rc is irrelevant. The d/d is more palatable than the z/d wet, has he had venison before?
> 
> Its a shame you have a fussy one too..I'm guessing raw is off the menu. Does he eat rabbit? Rabbit is meant to be great for tummy woes. Riley doesn't like rabbit
> 
> Did they explain the mild enlargement of the lymph nodes? Possibly as he has been unwell?
> 
> Pleased all went well x


Thanks xx

I keep trying to touch his tummy but keep getting bunny kicked 

I can't remember the dose Roman was on, but it was a 10 day course. It's not something I would like him to have long term either.

She said she gave the B12 just to be on the safe side. She said the mild enlarged lymph nodes were more than likely to be up because of him not being well.

All 3 of mine are wet eaters, but if he'll eat the dry over wet and it makes him better then we'll go for that. I'll order one of each and take it from there. He's not keen on the z/d or the I/d foods. Fingers crossed he'll eat one of them, I'll also have to get Frank and Seb on to the same food as well.

OliviaRussian recommended the raw rabbit, Frank was the only one to eat it. Neither Seb or Roman will touch raw. He didn't mind the rabbit Animonda Carny but not sure how much rabbit was in that and there probably is another meat in there too.

xx



buffie said:


> Nothing much to add to Nicola's post but would add that steroids had no effect on Meeko either,although as I already said he sends food back rather than out the other end.
> Cant comment on the foods either as Meeko just wouldn't entertain any of them,such a shame his food trials were a good while back as we had lots of samples that I could have sent you to try.
> Will be interesting to see what the results are when they all come back,it hopefully will make things a bit clearer.
> Glad Roman is back home and none the worse for his adventure


Thanks Buffie xx

He's very spaced out still, but not too much he can't eat  all he's done is stuff his face. Patricia said to continue with the Felix until we have the new foods. We've also had a poo, only a little one and a little bit firmer too


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> This has taken me forever to reply, my internet is driving me mad tonight :mad2:
> 
> We've tried the Hills z/d and he wasn't keen, thanks for the offer  xx
> 
> Thanks for pointing out about the chicken and rice
> 
> Thanks xx
> 
> I keep trying to touch his tummy but keep getting bunny kicked
> 
> I can't remember the dose Roman was on, but it was a 10 day course. It's not something I would like him to have long term either.
> 
> She said she gave the B12 just to be on the safe side. She said the mild enlarged lymph nodes were more than likely to be up because of him not being well.
> 
> All 3 of mine are wet eaters, but if he'll eat the dry over wet and it makes him better then we'll go for that. I'll order one of each and take it from there. He's not keen on the z/d or the I/d foods. Fingers crossed he'll eat one of them, I'll also have to get Frank and Seb on to the same food as well.
> 
> OliviaRussian recommended the raw rabbit, Frank was the only one to eat it. Neither Seb or Roman will touch raw. He didn't mind the rabbit Animonda Carny but not sure how much rabbit was in that and there probably is another meat in there too.
> 
> xx
> 
> Thanks Buffie xx
> 
> He's very spaced out still, but not too much he can't eat  all he's done is stuff his face. Patricia said to continue with the Felix until we have the new foods. We've also had a poo, only a little one and a little bit firmer too


Ah that's what I was thinking with the lymph nodes..

It may be worth talking to your vet and doing a 4 week course of vit b12 it does stimulate the appetite (didn't work for Riley -he is special in that way :mad2: ) tho it is a painful injection (I have them too) it's something I would ask for.

Hopefully firm poo could mean that the metronidazole is working..

Food us the Bain of my life! Just take it slooooowwwww


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Ah that's what I was thinking with the lymph nodes..
> 
> It may be worth talking to your vet and doing a 4 week course of vit b12 it does stimulate the appetite (didn't work for Riley -he is special in that way :mad2: ) tho it is a painful injection (I have them too) it's something I would ask for.
> 
> Hopefully firm poo could mean that the metronidazole is working..
> 
> Food us the Bain of my life! Just take it slooooowwwww


I'll have a chat to Peter about the B12 injection, ouchy I they really that painful? Did Riley cry? 

Fingers crossed it is working  

Just thinking, will I be able to order one of each food? Or shall I contact Hills and RC, explain my situation and ask them to send me some, if be willing to pay.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I'll have a chat to Peter about the B12 injection, ouchy I they really that painful? Did Riley cry?
> 
> Fingers crossed it is working
> 
> Just thinking, will I be able to order one of each food? Or shall I contact Hills and RC, explain my situation and ask them to send me some, if be willing to pay.


Riley didn't like them, we had a hiss or too  he didn't benefit from them  but as said he is special so other cats I'm sure would!

It's me that cries when I have them..the last one I bled a lot and had a bruise for a week and a half!! Nurse said it was due to the heat..I put it down to the javelin sized needle, but then I am a wimp :scared:

Most vets will stock either hills or rc food, so you should be able to get singulars, if you are stuck let me know what you can't get and I will ask mine, they do stock both..


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Riley didn't like them, we had a hiss or too  he didn't benefit from them  but as said he is special so other cats I'm sure would!
> 
> It's me that cries when I have them..the last one I bled a lot and had a bruise for a week and a half!! Nurse said it was due to the heat..I put it down to the javelin sized needle, but then I am a wimp :scared:
> 
> Most vets will stock either hills or rc food, so you should be able to get singulars, if you are stuck let me know what you can't get and I will ask mine, they do stock both..


I'll call my vets in the morning and ask, if they haven't got what I need I'll let you know, thanks  xx

Sounds just like me a few weeks ago, I had a CT scan, they injected dye into my arm, and that hurt too  after they told me to sit and wait for 10 mins before going home, sat there holding my arm, felt the sleeve of the gown wet, looked and I was covered in blood, an old lady told me to move as I was making her feel ill, nurse came along and said it was the heat that made me bleed so much, the bruise was there for over a week too.


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok not the best photo..he looks really uncomfortable..:nonod: actually my leg has gone dead


Oh Bless. He just likes to be close to his mum.

He looks fine and a credit to your love and dedication to him.

Who minds a dead leg when you have a gorgeous boy cuddled up to you?


----------



## Forester

How is Roman today, Sarah ? Fingers crossed that he's starting to feel better.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> How is Roman today, Sarah ? Fingers crossed that he's starting to feel better.


He was a bit more livelier this morning, we had a runny poo with a little firm bit.

Will be popping home at lunch time to see how he is.

How's Dylan today?


----------



## sarahecp

I popped home at lunchtime, Roman seemed ok, no more poos  I got a good feel of his baldy tummy without being bunny kicked  

Spoke to my vet about yesterday and also mentioned the B12 injections, he said he would prefer to wait for all the results to come back first before making any decisions. 

I'm popping in after work to pick up some food, receptionist said they don't have much of a variety


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> I popped home at lunchtime, Roman seemed ok, no more poos  I got a good feel of his baldy tummy without being bunny kicked
> 
> Spoke to my vet about yesterday and also mentioned the B12 injections, he said he would prefer to wait for all the results to come back first before making any decisions.
> 
> I'm popping in after work to pick up some food, receptionist said they don't have much of a variety


Its good to hear that Roman's poo seems to be improving. He must also be feeling more comfortable if he hasn't bunny kicked you for touching his tummy. It sounds as though things are going in the right direction.:thumbsup:

Dylan is currently asleep in his bed where he's been since about 10.30am. He looks happy enough but is only eating about half as much as he was a few weeks ago. I'm going to get him a piece of fish from the F and C shop later as he seems to like that ( batter obviously removed ). I will be either ringing my vet on Monday, when she returns from holiday ,or making an appointment to take him. I've just ordered 96 more pouches of Sensitivity Control as I anticipate that she will want him completely on that again. 23 cans of z/d have been added to the growing mountain of food which he either can't , or won't, eat.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Its good to hear that Roman's poo seems to be improving. He must also be feeling more comfortable if he hasn't bunny kicked you for touching his tummy. It sounds as though things are going in the right direction.:thumbsup:
> 
> Dylan is currently asleep in his bed where he's been since about 10.30am. He looks happy enough but is only eating about half as much as he was a few weeks ago. I'm going to get him a piece of fish from the F and C shop later as he seems to like that ( batter obviously removed ). I will be either ringing my vet on Monday, when she returns from holiday ,or making an appointment to take him. I've just ordered 96 more pouches of Sensitivity Control as I anticipate that she will want him completely on that again. 23 cans of z/d have been added to the growing mountain of food which he either can't , or won't, eat.


I hope so  I'm home and still no poos.

Awww bless him  hope he eats and enjoys the fish. Made me fancy fish and chips now 

Why are they sooooo fussy  wish they knew what was good for them and eat it.

Been to the vets and all they had was the Hills z/d ultra allergen free and the d/d venison, so got a couple of tins of each and also a bag of RC sensitivity control duck and rice. He licked the venison and that was it, didn't think he'd even touch it, smells and looks quite nice  I'll try him with a bit more later.

Also had a call from Patricia at Davies, the bloods for his organs has come back all ok   the epi and b12 will be next week.


----------



## Forester

Great news about Roman's blood results so far. Here's hoping that he decides that he likes the venison and that it agrees with him.

Dyl had a few mouthfuls of SC shortly after I last posted and was sick 10 minutes later. I changed my plan and rang the vets to see if someone would prescribe some steroids for Dylan before next week. I'm collecting some in the morning. I chatted with the vet about his poor appetite and she was happy that I try him with anything fairly bland if he refuses the SC.

He's picked at a little of the fish but not with much enthusiasm.


----------



## nicolaa123

Good news on the results so far!


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Great news about Roman's blood results so far. Here's hoping that he decides that he likes the venison and that it agrees with him.
> 
> Dyl had a few mouthfuls of SC shortly after I last posted and was sick 10 minutes later. I changed my plan and rang the vets to see if someone would prescribe some steroids for Dylan before next week. I'm collecting some in the morning. I chatted with the vet about his poor appetite and she was happy that I try him with anything fairly bland if he refuses the SC.
> 
> He's picked at a little of the fish but not with much enthusiasm.





nicolaa123 said:


> Good news on the results so far!


Thank you both   xx

He's eaten a little bit more of the venison, only a couple of mouthfuls, but more than I expected, Seb had a little bit too, Frank's not tried it yet. I'm not taking this as a positive, yet!

Oh no poor Dylan  really hope the steroids help, bless him xx


----------



## buffie

Good news on Romans bloods so far ,hopefully the lack of poo is a good sign


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Dyl had a few mouthfuls of SC shortly after I last posted and was sick 10 minutes later. I changed my plan and rang the vets to see if someone would prescribe some steroids for Dylan before next week. I'm collecting some in the morning. I chatted with the vet about his poor appetite and she was happy that I try him with anything fairly bland if he refuses the SC.
> 
> He's picked at a little of the fish but not with much enthusiasm.


Sorry to read that Dylan has been sick again  Maybe the steroids will help his appetite,that and making him pee more was all the steroids did for Meeko
As for the food,your vet should be able to refund you for that as Hills do a refund scheme for food that pets wont eat.
I had to take Meeko's back,it is too expensive to sit in a cupboard.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Good news on Romans bloods so far ,hopefully the lack of poo is a good sign


Thanks Buffie  xx

I'm keeping my fingers crossed it is.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that Dylan has been sick again  Maybe the steroids will help his appetite,that and making him pee more was all the steroids did for Meeko
> As for the food,your vet should be able to refund you for that as Hills do a refund scheme for food that pets wont eat.
> I had to take Meeko's back,it is too expensive to sit in a cupboard.


Thanks, buffie. I did wonder whether they would take it back. I dropped a vague hint on the phone but no offer was forthcoming. I will ask directly. I've run out of cupboards , and wardrobes. The z/d is currently sat on the kitchen floor due to lack of space, and I have 8 boxes of sensitivity control due to be delivered on Friday.

Dylan's just eaten some more fish so I've put the remains in his feeder for overnight.

The vet was hopeful that the steroids would help Dylan's appetite. I have to report progress on Monday.


----------



## sarahecp

I hope Dylan's feeling better this morning. And hope you'll be able to return the food he's not eating. 

I just noticed we've already got the z/d foods  getting confused  with all this /d foods. someone ate the rest of the venison during the night and I don't think it was Frank as he turned his nose up to it yesterday evening.


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> I hope Dylan's feeling better this morning. And hope you'll be able to return the food he's not eating.
> 
> I just noticed we've already got the z/d foods  getting confused  with all this /d foods. someone ate the rest of the venison during the night and I don't think it was Frank as he turned his nose up to it yesterday evening.


That's great news that " someone " has eaten the remains of the venison. Are you able to feed Roman separately so that you can check whether he is getting any? You , obviously, don't have a problem if they are all eating the same, though I'm guessing that Frank is having something different.

How is Roman's poo? Has he supplied any since yesterday? I sincerely hope that he continues to improve.

I'm going to try to return the z/d this morning and have sent an e-mail to try to cancel the 96 pouches of Sensitivity Control as Dylan is now flatly refusing it. I have a little, of the SC, in stock so can always order again if he decides to eat it again. He ate all of the fish overnight and has eaten some more for breakfast. He's looking much brighter today.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> That's great news that " someone " has eaten the remains of the venison. Are you able to feed Roman separately so that you can check whether he is getting any? You , obviously, don't have a problem if they are all eating the same, though I'm guessing that Frank is having something different.
> 
> How is Roman's poo? Has he supplied any since yesterday? I sincerely hope that he continues to improve.
> 
> I'm going to try to return the z/d this morning and have sent an e-mail to try to cancel the 96 pouches of Sensitivity Control as Dylan is now flatly refusing it. I have a little, of the SC, in stock so can always order again if he decides to eat it again. He ate all of the fish overnight and has eaten some more for breakfast. He's looking much brighter today.


The problem I have is I free feed and not really possible to feed Roman separatley and that's why I'm hoping to get them all on to the same food and I think the only way that will work is if I feed them the dry food. I did want to try the wet foods first before I went the dry route but as my vets are being a bit iffy with the food and saying if they order stuff in they don't usually stock I'll have to buy it all  I think I'm going to have to give the dry now and as I need to get Roman on to a different food as soon as I can.

We had a poo last night and this morning, gone back to being like water again  I really don't think the Metronidazole is working, but need to continue with the course.

I'm getting stressed and upset again, I know when Roman wants to use the tray as he shouts, but he's now going up to the tray, stepping inside then out again, walking round the house shouting, going back to the tray and then evenually going, so I'm assumming he's in some kind of pain or having dire rear like this is making him distressed  he's never been like this with the tray and he's never had any accidents either.

Pleased Dylan has eaten his fish and is much brighter today  Keeping everything crossed that he is feeling better.

Hope you were able to cancel the 96 puches.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sarah it may have been the change in the food that has caused him to be runny again. Any changes have to be so slow for these cats! Like half a teaspoon at a time.

If he was ok on the Felix I would be feeding that until he is stable with his tolieting and you get your results back, then look at food..

Slyv, hopefully the steroids will help with appetite and reducing the bouts of sickness. Let us know how you get on.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Sarah it may have been the change in the food that has caused him to be runny again. Any changes have to be so slow for these cats! Like half a teaspoon at a time.
> 
> If he was ok on the Felix I would be feeding that until he is stable with his tolieting and you get your results back, then look at food..
> 
> Slyv, hopefully the steroids will help with appetite and reducing the bouts of sickness. Let us know how you get on.


Thanks Nicola x

Felix is all he usually eats, I will continue with that until I get the results and then half as teaspoon at a time with the new foods.

My mind is all over the place at the moment, just want him better and to have normal poo. 
xx


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> The problem I have is I free feed and not really possible to feed Roman separatley and that's why I'm hoping to get them all on to the same food and I think the only way that will work is if I feed them the dry food. I did want to try the wet foods first before I went the dry route but as my vets are being a bit iffy with the food and saying if they order stuff in they don't usually stock I'll have to buy it all  I think I'm going to have to give the dry now and as I need to get Roman on to a different food as soon as I can.
> 
> We had a poo last night and this morning, gone back to being like water again  I really don't think the Metronidazole is working, but need to continue with the course.
> 
> I'm getting stressed and upset again, I know when Roman wants to use the tray as he shouts, but he's now going up to the tray, stepping inside then out again, walking round the house shouting, going back to the tray and then evenually going, so I'm assumming he's in some kind of pain or having dire rear like this is making him distressed  he's never been like this with the tray and he's never had any accidents either.
> 
> Pleased Dylan has eaten his fish and is much brighter today  Keeping everything crossed that he is feeling better.
> 
> Hope you were able to cancel the 96 puches.


I understand completely that you would probably need to feed them all together.

Oh Sarah, poor Roman, and poor you. Its heart breaking to see them distressed and not be able to instantly " make it better" for them. Maybe the ab's are just taking a while.I've found that sometimes you don't get an improvement till right at the end of the course. When is the course due to end?

Fingers crossed that the new food will also help once he is settled on it.

Dylan has finished his fish and I've been told to refuse delivery of the 96 pouches. Unfortunately I don't know what to feed him now 

buffie, I tried to return the Hills z/d but the vet's receptionist was under the impression that they will only refund on Royal Canin as they don't normally stock the Hills. I have seen on Hills website that they claim to refund on returned food so have e-mailed them to enquire. I also asked the vets receptionist to make enquiries for me.

Dylan seems much brighter today and I've collected the pred. to start tonight.


----------



## buffie

Sarah so sorry to read that Roman is not doing as well as he was.Nicola could be right that the food changes are not helping his dire rear situation
how upsetting it must be to see your little lad in distress .


Forester..Hope you get somewhere with the Hills food.If your vet ordered it in for you then they should be able to return it even although they don't stock it.
My vet doesn't stock hills food either they stock Purina(must have offered a better deal than the others  ) but even before I had collected the food they said if Meeko didn't eat it I could return any unused tins for a refund,so I think they are just being awkward.
Hope you can find something that he likes and agrees with him,big ask I know but we live in hope.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> I understand completely that you would probably need to feed them all together.
> 
> Oh Sarah, poor Roman, and poor you. Its heart breaking to see them distressed and not be able to instantly " make it better" for them. Maybe the ab's are just taking a while.I've found that sometimes you don't get an improvement till right at the end of the course. When is the course due to end?
> 
> Fingers crossed that the new food will also help once he is settled on it.
> 
> Dylan has finished his fish and I've been told to refuse delivery of the 96 pouches. Unfortunately I don't know what to feed him now
> 
> buffie, I tried to return the Hills z/d but the vet's receptionist was under the impression that they will only refund on Royal Canin as they don't normally stock the Hills. I have seen on Hills website that they claim to refund on returned food so have e-mailed them to enquire. I also asked the vets receptionist to make enquiries for me.
> 
> Dylan seems much brighter today and I've collected the pred. to start tonight.


I've come home to more not so good poo  got to stop getting down about it.

His course ends next Thursday, was a 14 day course, so there is still time for it to work.

Roman is absolutely fine in himself, there were toys all over the house when I come home at lunch time and his tunnel was in the hall when I got in from work, he's been having fun today 

Glad Dylan's finished his fish  As I'm new to all of this, I don't know what to advise you to feed him next, hopefully the Pred' helps, fingers crossed.

I have an email from Hills I received today, I mailed them last night asking if I could purchase a few pouches/tin/bags of the prescription foods as I didn't want to buy loads just in case, here's their reply -

Dear Sarah,

Thank you for contacting us.

Although the food that you have requested is not available in samples, for 
your reassurance, we offer a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee, which is a 
guarantee of quality, consistency and taste. If a pet refuses to eat one 
of our products or it does not meet our usual high quality standards, the 
opened bag (or unused cans/pouches) and remaining food may be returned to 
the retailer for replacement (or refund).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps xx



buffie said:


> Sarah so sorry to read that Roman is not doing as well as he was.Nicola could be right that the food changes are not helping his dire rear situation
> how upsetting it must be to see your little lad in distress .
> .


Thanks Buffie xx

I think Nicola is right. And I'm going to stop any more new food testing until all results are back, continue with the Felix and then start very very slowly.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I've come home to more not so good poo  got to stop getting down about it.
> 
> His course ends next Thursday, was a 14 day course, so there is still time for it to work.
> 
> Roman is absolutely fine in himself, there were toys all over the house when I come home at lunch time and his tunnel was in the hall when I got in from work, he's been having fun today
> 
> Glad Dylan's finished his fish  As I'm new to all of this, I don't know what to advise you to feed him next, hopefully the Pred' helps, fingers crossed.
> 
> I have an email from Hills I received today, I mailed them last night asking if I could purchase a few pouches/tin/bags of the prescription foods as I didn't want to buy loads just in case, here's their reply -
> 
> Dear Sarah,
> 
> Thank you for contacting us.
> 
> Although the food that you have requested is not available in samples, for
> your reassurance, we offer a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee, which is a
> guarantee of quality, consistency and taste. If a pet refuses to eat one
> of our products or it does not meet our usual high quality standards, the
> opened bag (or unused cans/pouches) and remaining food may be returned to
> the retailer for replacement (or refund).
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hope this helps xx
> 
> Thanks Buffie xx
> 
> I think Nicola is right. And I'm going to stop any more new food testing until all results are back, continue with the Felix and then start very very slowly.


Your email from Hills confirms my thoughts,if vet's are refusing/being awkward about returning any food they are wrong as they are the "retailer"
Hope poor Roman gets some relief from his runny bum soon,although it does seem that the only one upset by it is his slave .


----------



## nicolaa123

My vet has always taken food back and refunded me. I would keep on at them!!


----------



## Forester

Sarah, I'm really disappointed to hear that Roman is still supplying runny poo.

How is it today and how does Roman seem in himself.? Please try not to get down about it. You are "on the case" and doing all that you can to get Roman better. If you have another weeks worth of antibiotics the vet must have thought that he would need more than a few days worth. Its so hard not to hope that a new medication/ food/ regime will work instantly. I am the worst in the world at hoping for overnight success .

I contacted Hills about my situation regarding the z/d and I have received a very agreeable reply. They have contacted the practice manager at my vets and requested that the food either be replaced or my money refunded. I won't be too high in the popularity polls again but I will have achieved satisfaction.  Thanks all for your advice regarding this issue.:thumbup1:

Since abandoning the Sensitivity Control Dylan's appetite has returned and he's much much livelier. He's had boiled rabbit today which has gone down a treat ( and stayed there so far ). Its not complete, I know , but its a start.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Sarah, I'm really disappointed to hear that Roman is still supplying runny poo.
> 
> How is it today and how does Roman seem in himself.? Please try not to get down about it. You are "on the case" and doing all that you can to get Roman better. If you have another weeks worth of antibiotics the vet must have thought that he would need more than a few days worth. Its so hard not to hope that a new medication/ food/ regime will work instantly. I am the worst in the world at hoping for overnight success .
> 
> I contacted Hills about my situation regarding the z/d and I have received a very agreeable reply. They have contacted the practice manager at my vets and requested that the food either be replaced or my money refunded. I won't be too high in the popularity polls again but I will have achieved satisfaction.  Thanks all for your advice regarding this issue.:thumbup1:
> 
> Since abandoning the Sensitivity Control Dylan's appetite has returned and he's much much livelier. He's had boiled rabbit today which has gone down a treat ( and stayed there so far ). Its not complete, I know , but its a start.


Fingers and paws crossed that Dylan continues feeling better/eating well ang hopefully not sending it back again 
Glad you got the food situation sorted,that was really bad of them to deny you a refund on unsuitable food ,I'm sure they would know the situation with "Hills" and their policy re returned food


----------



## sarahecp

Roman is still fine in himself  we had one poo this morning it was watery with a semi soft bit at the end, which made me happier, no more since.

We do have some good news, Patricia from Davies called, the poo sample, B12 and epi have all come back clear   she now wants to go ahead with the endoscopy and wants me to start changing his food over too, told her I'd given him the d/d venison and he'd eaten a little bit but think he would take more to the dry food (we have RC SC duck and rice) she said to do the change slowly until he is eating that and nothing else. Tried him with a couple of bits earlier, gobbled them up and shouted at me for more  he didn't get any. 

Patricia is on holiday for a couple of weeks now so has booked him in for the scope on 8th September. She then called me back to let me know he needs to be starved for up to 24 hours and if it's an issue having Frank and Seb to take him in Sunday 7th, she said to have a think over the weekend and if I decide yes to call them on Tuesday to book him in. I think it will be a good idea to do just in case and thinking of poor Frank and Seb. 

Forester, so glad you've got the food situation sorted :thumbup: 

And I'm soooo pleased to hear Dylan's appetite has returned :thumbup: keep it up Dylan   xx


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> Roman is still fine in himself  we had one poo this morning it was watery with a semi soft bit at the end, which made me happier, no more since.
> 
> We do have some good news, Patricia from Davies called, the poo sample, B12 and epi have all come back clear   she now wants to go ahead with the endoscopy and wants me to start changing his food over too, told her I'd given him the d/d venison and he'd eaten a little bit but think he would take more to the dry food (we have RC SC duck and rice) she said to do the change slowly until he is eating that and nothing else. Tried him with a couple of bits earlier, gobbled them up and shouted at me for more  he didn't get any.
> 
> Patricia is on holiday for a couple of weeks now so has booked him in for the scope on 8th September. She then called me back to let me know he needs to be starved for up to 24 hours and if it's an issue having Frank and Seb to take him in Sunday 7th, she said to have a think over the weekend and if I decide yes to call them on Tuesday to book him in. I think it will be a good idea to do just in case and thinking of poor Frank and Seb.
> 
> Forester, so glad you've got the food situation sorted :thumbup:
> 
> And I'm soooo pleased to hear Dylan's appetite has returned :thumbup: keep it up Dylan   xx


Sarah. Perhaps the reduction in frequency, as well as the " semi soft bit at the end" with Roman's poo are signs that the a/bs are starting to work. I hope so.

Fantastic news about the poo, B12 and epi. You *are *making progress in ruling out possible causes for Roman's symptoms.

It sounds as though you won't have any difficulty getting Roman on to the SC duck and rice so that's something which won't be a worry. Do you think that Seb and Frank will take to it?

Sept 7th will be here in no time . Try not to worry about the endoscopy. Dylan took his in his stride. But for the shaved patch on his leg you would never have guessed that he'd had anything done. Just look at it as a step closer to a diagnosis ( and solution ).

Thanks both for your good wishes re Dylan His sudden improvement has made me realise how much his demeanour and appetite had declined over recent weeks. As long as I can find another complete food which doesn't make him vomit frequently I'm not unhappy that he is refusing the SC pouches. I am relieved that I managed to cancel my order for another 96 pouches as well as having the refund on the z/d sorted.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Roman is still fine in himself  we had one poo this morning it was watery with a semi soft bit at the end, which made me happier, no more since.
> 
> We do have some good news, Patricia from Davies called, the poo sample, B12 and epi have all come back clear   she now wants to go ahead with the endoscopy and wants me to start changing his food over too, told her I'd given him the d/d venison and he'd eaten a little bit but think he would take more to the dry food (we have RC SC duck and rice) she said to do the change slowly until he is eating that and nothing else. Tried him with a couple of bits earlier, gobbled them up and shouted at me for more  he didn't get any.
> 
> Patricia is on holiday for a couple of weeks now so has booked him in for the scope on 8th September. She then called me back to let me know he needs to be starved for up to 24 hours and if it's an issue having Frank and Seb to take him in Sunday 7th, she said to have a think over the weekend and if I decide yes to call them on Tuesday to book him in. I think it will be a good idea to do just in case and thinking of poor Frank and Seb.
> 
> Forester, so glad you've got the food situation sorted :thumbup:
> 
> And I'm soooo pleased to hear Dylan's appetite has returned :thumbup: keep it up Dylan   xx


Good news about the bloods, it is a case of just keep ruling things out. I think would be a good idea for him to go night before, just incase he manages to eat something he shouldn't!

Food can be such a pain in the bum..I'm thinking to try Riley on either the goat again or the ropocat venison..but I'm also scared that it will stop his run of "ok"ness I will have a think about it..

It's very much trial and error with food I'm afraid


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Sarah, I'm really disappointed to hear that Roman is still supplying runny poo.
> 
> How is it today and how does Roman seem in himself.? Please try not to get down about it. You are "on the case" and doing all that you can to get Roman better. If you have another weeks worth of antibiotics the vet must have thought that he would need more than a few days worth. Its so hard not to hope that a new medication/ food/ regime will work instantly. I am the worst in the world at hoping for overnight success .
> 
> I contacted Hills about my situation regarding the z/d and I have received a very agreeable reply. They have contacted the practice manager at my vets and requested that the food either be replaced or my money refunded. I won't be too high in the popularity polls again but I will have achieved satisfaction.  Thanks all for your advice regarding this issue.:thumbup1:
> 
> Since abandoning the Sensitivity Control Dylan's appetite has returned and he's much much livelier. He's had boiled rabbit today which has gone down a treat ( and stayed there so far ). Its not complete, I know , but its a start.


Fantastic news about him taking the rabbit..hopefully it's still stayed down.

Have you tried him on a rabbit cat food? I know vc do one, plus I'm sure there are others out there that are single proteins. Might be worth trying. Or there is stuff you can add to meat, but I don't know anything about that as Riley will not entertain "real" food!

Riley is back up to eating 400g of food per day  he should be obese really, he is sedentary for about 80% of the time! Just shows how little his body absorbs from the food. Still he is happy enough, he attacked my feet this morning :incazzato:


----------



## buffie

Lovely to start the w/end on a happy note.So good to read that Roman's results have all come back clear and possibly/hopefully/paws crossed that there may be a change to his poo situation :thumbsup:
Hopefully all the other IBD'ers will follow his lead  
Heres to a poo/vomit free w/end and beyond


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Sarah. Perhaps the reduction in frequency, as well as the " semi soft bit at the end" with Roman's poo are signs that the a/bs are starting to work. I hope so.
> 
> Fantastic news about the poo, B12 and epi. You *are *making progress in ruling out possible causes for Roman's symptoms.
> 
> It sounds as though you won't have any difficulty getting Roman on to the SC duck and rice so that's something which won't be a worry. Do you think that Seb and Frank will take to it?
> 
> Sept 7th will be here in no time . Try not to worry about the endoscopy. Dylan took his in his stride. But for the shaved patch on his leg you would never have guessed that he'd had anything done. Just look at it as a step closer to a diagnosis ( and solution ).
> 
> Thanks for your good wishes re Dylan His sudden improvement has made me realise how much his demeanour and appetite had declined over recent weeks. As long as I can find another complete food which doesn't make him vomit frequently I'm not unhappy that he is refusing the SC pouches. I am relieved that I managed to cancel my order for another 96 pouches as well as having the refund on the z/d sorted.


Thanks xx

Maybe they are starting to work, everything crossed. I've now tried Frank and Seb with a couple of bits of the dry and they both ate it   both Seb and Roman used to be dry food addicts, I eventually got them off of it and eating only wet around Jan/Feb time. Frank had never been too keen on dry and then Roman came along and turned him  so I don't think I'll have any issues with them eating it, just hope it agrees with Roman.

I am scared and worried about the endoscopy (got to have one myself on 2nd Sept) I think it's because I've read up on what they're going to do to me I'm more scared and worried about Roman, I'm sure all will be fine but I'm such a worry wort I'm bad enough when I take them for a check up and boosters and got myself in such a state on Tuesday knowing he was being put out for an ultra scan. But like you say we're closer to a diagnosis and solution. Think positive Sarah!!

You're welcome  keeping everything crossed you can find another complete food Dylan will eat and keep down.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks xx
> 
> Maybe they are starting to work, everything crossed. I've now tried Frank and Seb with a couple of bits of the dry and they both ate it   both Seb and Roman used to be dry food addicts, I eventually got them off of it and eating only wet around Jan/Feb time. Frank had never been too keen on dry and then Roman came along and turned him  so I don't think I'll have any issues with them eating it, just hope it agrees with Roman.
> 
> I am scared and worried about the endoscopy (got to have one myself on 2nd Sept) I think it's because I've read up on what they're going to do to me I'm more scared and worried about Roman, I'm sure all will be fine but I'm such a worry wort I'm bad enough when I take them for a check up and boosters and got myself in such a state on Tuesday knowing he was being put out for an ultra scan. But like you say we're closer to a diagnosis and solution. Think positive Sarah!!
> 
> You're welcome  keeping everything crossed you can find another complete food Dylan will eat and keep down.


This is almost like when Riley and I were having b12 injections, we both had one on the same day!

Hope both of your endescopies go well 

It's pointless me saying this as I would be worried in your shoes too, but try not to worry, he will be in such good hands and won't feel a thing..


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news about the bloods, it is a case of just keep ruling things out. I think would be a good idea for him to go night before, just incase he manages to eat something he shouldn't!
> 
> Food can be such a pain in the bum..I'm thinking to try Riley on either the goat again or the ropocat venison..but I'm also scared that it will stop his run of "ok"ness I will have a think about it..
> 
> It's very much trial and error with food I'm afraid


Thanks xx

Yes, defiantly going to take him the day before it's not worth the risk in him eating something, and I wouldn't be able to trust him.

I've been scared about changing his food, so know how you're feeling about trying another with Riley.



buffie said:


> Lovely to start the w/end on a happy note.So good to read that Roman's results have all come back clear and possibly/hopefully/paws crossed that there may be a change to his poo situation :thumbsup:
> Hopefully all the other IBD'ers will follow his lead
> Heres to a poo/vomit free w/end and beyond


Thanks xx

Yes, here's to a 'good poo and no vomit' for all our cats   xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> This is almost like when Riley and I were having b12 injections, we both had one on the same day!
> 
> Hope both of your endescopies go well
> 
> It's pointless me saying this as I would be worried in your shoes too, but try not to worry, he will be in such good hands and won't feel a thing..


Thanks Nicola xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks xx
> 
> Yes, defiantly going to take him the day before it's not worth the risk in him eating something, and I wouldn't be able to trust him.
> 
> I've been scared about changing his food, so know how you're feeling about trying another with Riley.
> 
> Thanks xx
> 
> Yes, here's to a 'good poo and no vomit' for all our cats   xx


The investigation period is the worse time, your head works overtime in what it could be..buffie gave me very good advise..google is not always your friend!!

I know it's hard for all of us, when Riley was very poorly last year I thought I would have to make that choice for him, which still makes me just fill up at the thought of that.

Roman and Dylan will get through this stage..and remember ok is good!


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Nicola xx


Anytime xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> The investigation period is the worse time, your head works overtime in what it could be..buffie gave me very good advise..google is not always your friend!!
> 
> I know it's hard for all of us, when Riley was very poorly last year I thought I would have to make that choice for him, which still makes me just fill up at the thought of that.
> 
> Roman and Dylan will get through this stage..and remember ok is good!


I agree about your head working overtime and your mind running away with you. The things that I've imagined could be wrong, I'm sure we've all been there. Great advice from Buffie :thumbup: google is more of an enemy sometimes 

It's made me fill up just reading that :crying:

I keep telling myself we will get through this stage.

I will remember that


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I agree about your head working overtime and your mind running away with you. The things that I've imagined could be wrong, I'm sure we've all been there. Great advice from Buffie :thumbup: google is more of an enemy sometimes
> 
> It's made me fill up just reading that :crying:
> 
> I keep telling myself we will get through this stage.
> 
> I will remember that


It's easy for me to say now I know but try and keep telling yourself that..it's a good sign he is well in himself, when Riley was poorly he had no interest in anything, so thin, haunched for the majority of the time, I could tell he was in pain, now we are playing knock stuff off the table great game..not 

Keep strong!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> The investigation period is the worse time, your head works overtime in what it could be..buffie gave me very good advise..google is not always your friend!!
> 
> I know it's hard for all of us, when Riley was very poorly last year I thought I would have to make that choice for him, which still makes me just fill up at the thought of that.
> 
> Roman and Dylan will get through this stage..and remember ok is good!





sarahecp said:


> I agree about your head working overtime and your mind running away with you. The things that I've imagined could be wrong, I'm sure we've all been there. Great advice from Buffie :thumbup: google is more of an enemy sometimes
> 
> It's made me fill up just reading that :crying:
> 
> I keep telling myself we will get through this stage.
> 
> I will remember that





nicolaa123 said:


> It's easy for me to say now I know but try and keep telling yourself that..it's a good sign he is well in himself, when Riley was poorly he had no interest in anything, so thin, haunched for the majority of the time, I could tell he was in pain, now we are playing knock stuff off the table great game..not
> 
> Keep strong!


I can relate to "good is okay" its all I hope for and as long as Meeko is "okay" I'm happy and google is "banned":sosp:
If I have learned nothing else,I have learned to enjoy the good times and worry about the "not so good" if they come along.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> It's easy for me to say now I know but try and keep telling yourself that..it's a good sign he is well in himself, when Riley was poorly he had no interest in anything, so thin, haunched for the majority of the time, I could tell he was in pain, now we are playing knock stuff off the table great game..not
> 
> Keep strong!





buffie said:


> I can relate to "good is okay" its all I hope for and as long as Meeko is "okay" I'm happy and google is "banned":sosp:
> If I have learned nothing else,I have learned to enjoy the good times and worry about the "not so good" if they come along.


Thank you both xx

I'm trying to stay strong and not get upset with not so good poo. We had a bad one last night and this morning. I've been thinking whether the Metrondanizole have a side affects of dire rear, I'm going to have to google this one sorry


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Thank you both xx
> 
> I'm trying to stay strong and not get upset with not so good poo. We had a bad one last night and this morning. *I've been thinking whether the Metrondanizole have a side affects of dire rear*, I'm going to have to google this one sorry


Certain "google" investigations are allowed .
I think where sensitive tums etc are concerned it is always a possibility that they will react to meds which have no adverse effect on others.
Meeko had 2 weeks of dire rear when he was given a convenia inj,not a usual side effect,think I mentioned that metronidazole made him itchy and he reacts to hibiscrub too.
Sending you both some positive vibes hope you can find the cause soon x


----------



## Forester

buffie, Nicola, You cannot begin to imagine how much your advice, support and encouragement has helped me, and I'm sure also Sarah and probably many others. Without you I would not like to imagine where I, and Dylan, might be.

Before joining this thread I tried to read the entire thread so that I could benefit from your experiences and understand the situations surrounding you and your masters. Sections of the thread I struggled to read through my tears ,particularly for Nicola and Riley last summer. Your pain was palpable. It must have been so hard for you to document what you were , and still are going through so that others could benefit.

To change the subject slightly, how is everyone today?. I hope that " the o k boys" Riley and Meeko are still o k. and that Roman is improving.

Dylan has nearly finished the rabbit which I boiled yesterday and none has been returned. I was thinking of looking into the addition of TC Feline or Felini Complete to a home made cooked diet but will discuss with my vet when she returns. I have a can of Ropocat rabbit as well as a few Ropocat lamb and lots of Ropo chicken but I'm wary of feeding these as Dylan has had issues with all of these products in the past. I seem to have lost confidence in any commercial food at the moment. It seems that every time I try something he's o k for a few days only to then have a severe adverse reaction.

Whether its the change in food or that and the steroids but Dylan is sooo much brighter. He's almost terrorising the household again, racing around and chasing anything that moves. I had assumed that his " settling down " had been down to maturation but it seems that I was wrong. I now feel awful for not realising that he was declining and not just leaving kittenhood behind.

Apologies for subjecting you to War and Peace.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> buffie, Nicola, You cannot begin to imagine how much your advice, support and encouragement has helped me, and I'm sure also Sarah and probably many others. Without you I would not like to imagine where I, and Dylan, might be.
> 
> Before joining this thread I tried to read the entire thread so that I could benefit from your experiences and understand the situations surrounding you and your masters. Sections of the thread I struggled to read through my tears ,particularly for Nicola and Riley last summer. Your pain was palpable. It must have been so hard for you to document what you were , and still are going through so that others could benefit.
> 
> To change the subject slightly, how is everyone today?. I hope that " the o k boys" Riley and Meeko are still o k. and that Roman is improving.
> 
> Dylan has nearly finished the rabbit which I boiled yesterday and none has been returned. I was thinking of looking into the addition of TC Feline or Felini Complete to a home made cooked diet but will discuss with my vet when she returns. I have a can of Ropocat rabbit as well as a few Ropocat lamb and lots of Ropo chicken but I'm wary of feeding these as Dylan has had issues with all of these products in the past. I seem to have lost confidence in any commercial food at the moment. It seems that every time I try something he's o k for a few days only to then have a severe adverse reaction.
> 
> Whether its the change in food or that and the steroids but Dylan is sooo much brighter. He's almost terrorising the household again, racing around and chasing anything that moves. I had assumed that his " settling down " had been down to maturation but it seems that I was wrong. I now feel awful for not realising that he was declining and not just leaving kittenhood behind.
> 
> Apologies for subjecting you to War and Peace.


Happy to help , if our experiences can help others then none of it has been in vain .
It does seem to all be trial and error along the way and what works for one ,doesn't help another.
Everyone brings something to this thread even if they are only starting out on the long journey that is IBD,every experience adds to the "think tank" the only real difference is I think Nicola and myself have been "involved" a bit longer :rolleyes
So nice to read that Dylan is doing well  ,I know what you saying about the difference in their whole attitude to life/food/surroundings when they are well the difference is huge and you realise that when they were quiet it was more than just being lazy .
Meeko is a noisy boy when he is well,loves to flick stuff of work tops just to get attention and usually yelling at the top of his lungs for effect /runs around the house like a loon.It is usually easy to see when he is feeling a bit "off"
so when he is behaving himself I worry and I'm so glad when he starts being naughty again .
Right now he is outside in his run ,has been in and out running through his tunnel,yelling at me then shooting back out along the tunnel to his run,the boy is mad :crazy:


----------



## Forester

Its great to hear that Meeko is " mad" . Long may it continue.

I'm looking forward to the day when all of our IBD cats are "mad"


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone. Hope all ok and coping. I haven't got on for a few days as forum being odd.

Blue is ok. The mackerel will not be repeated. We are staying in or on supervised walks as we have creamfields on and I am on alert. I am still adding water to all foods and have tried some prawns last night which seem to be ok.

All have a good long weekend..i don't think you can buy cat ear defenders x


----------



## bluecordelia

Forrester I use Fellini complete but found it is acceptable if added to food after boiling. I think i was also adding too many scoops also.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Certain "google" investigations are allowed .
> I think where sensitive tums etc are concerned it is always a possibility that they will react to meds which have no adverse effect on others.
> Meeko had 2 weeks of dire rear when he was given a convenia inj,not a usual side effect,think I mentioned that metronidazole made him itchy and he reacts to hibiscrub too.
> Sending you both some positive vibes hope you can find the cause soon x


Thanks Buffie xx

Dire rear is a side effect but so were many other things. So I just don't know. I remember you saying Meeko was itchy.

I found a qtr of a white tablet on the floor earlier, it could be the Bricanyl or the Metronidazole, they are both the same size and don't remember which one I gave him first this morning  oh well better luck with tonight's pills.

We've had no more poos since this morning, I've given Roman a little bit of the dry with each meal, the same with Frank and Seb, they all seem to really like it  

Pleased to hear Meeko is ok and having fun :thumbup: sounds like he's having a great start to the bank holiday weekend   keep it up Meeko :thumbup: xx



Forester said:


> buffie, Nicola, You cannot begin to imagine how much your advice, support and encouragement has helped me, and I'm sure also Sarah and probably many others. Without you I would not like to imagine where I, and Dylan, might be.
> 
> Before joining this thread I tried to read the entire thread so that I could benefit from your experiences and understand the situations surrounding you and your masters. Sections of the thread I struggled to read through my tears ,particularly for Nicola and Riley last summer. Your pain was palpable. It must have been so hard for you to document what you were , and still are going through so that others could benefit.
> 
> To change the subject slightly, how is everyone today?. I hope that " the o k boys" Riley and Meeko are still o k. and that Roman is improving.
> 
> Dylan has nearly finished the rabbit which I boiled yesterday and none has been returned. I was thinking of looking into the addition of TC Feline or Felini Complete to a home made cooked diet but will discuss with my vet when she returns. I have a can of Ropocat rabbit as well as a few Ropocat lamb and lots of Ropo chicken but I'm wary of feeding these as Dylan has had issues with all of these products in the past. I seem to have lost confidence in any commercial food at the moment. It seems that every time I try something he's o k for a few days only to then have a severe adverse reaction.
> 
> Whether its the change in food or that and the steroids but Dylan is sooo much brighter. He's almost terrorising the household again, racing around and chasing anything that moves. I had assumed that his " settling down " had been down to maturation but it seems that I was wrong. I now feel awful for not realising that he was declining and not just leaving kittenhood behind.
> 
> Apologies for subjecting you to War and Peace.


I agree with you, without the advice, help and support from Nicola, Buffie and yourself I wouldn't know where to turn, so again thank you all xxx And who else would think talking about poo and bums was normal  

I've shed many tears reading though this thread 

Pleased to hear Dylan is back to terrorising the house again, well done Dylan :thumbup: xx



bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone. Hope all ok and coping. I haven't got on for a few days as forum being odd.
> 
> Blue is ok. The mackerel will not be repeated. We are staying in or on supervised walks as we have creamfields on and I am on alert. I am still adding water to all foods and have tried some prawns last night which seem to be ok.
> 
> All have a good long weekend..i don't think you can buy cat ear defenders x


The forums been playing up for me too.

Glad Blue is ok   and glad the prawns seemed to be ok :thumbup: xx


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone. Hope all ok and coping. I haven't got on for a few days as forum being odd.
> 
> Blue is ok. The mackerel will not be repeated. We are staying in or on supervised walks as we have creamfields on and I am on alert. I am still adding water to all foods and have tried some prawns last night which seem to be ok.
> 
> All have a good long weekend..i don't think you can buy cat ear defenders x


Glad to read that Blue is ok,long may that be the case 
Had to google "creamfields" looks very interesting and most likely very loud :w00t:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> buffie, Nicola, You cannot begin to imagine how much your advice, support and encouragement has helped me, and I'm sure also Sarah and probably many others. Without you I would not like to imagine where I, and Dylan, might be.
> 
> Before joining this thread I tried to read the entire thread so that I could benefit from your experiences and understand the situations surrounding you and your masters. Sections of the thread I struggled to read through my tears ,particularly for Nicola and Riley last summer. Your pain was palpable. It must have been so hard for you to document what you were , and still are going through so that others could benefit.
> 
> To change the subject slightly, how is everyone today?. I hope that " the o k boys" Riley and Meeko are still o k. and that Roman is improving.
> 
> Dylan has nearly finished the rabbit which I boiled yesterday and none has been returned. I was thinking of looking into the addition of TC Feline or Felini Complete to a home made cooked diet but will discuss with my vet when she returns. I have a can of Ropocat rabbit as well as a few Ropocat lamb and lots of Ropo chicken but I'm wary of feeding these as Dylan has had issues with all of these products in the past. I seem to have lost confidence in any commercial food at the moment. It seems that every time I try something he's o k for a few days only to then have a severe adverse reaction.
> 
> Whether its the change in food or that and the steroids but Dylan is sooo much brighter. He's almost terrorising the household again, racing around and chasing anything that moves. I had assumed that his " settling down " had been down to maturation but it seems that I was wrong. I now feel awful for not realising that he was declining and not just leaving kittenhood behind.
> 
> Apologies for subjecting you to War and Peace.


Never apologise it's what we are here for! We all can learn from each other  pleased to hear Dylan is back to being a terror! Hopefully it's the sign of good things to come!



buffie said:


> Happy to help , if our experiences can help others then none of it has been in vain .
> It does seem to all be trial and error along the way and what works for one ,doesn't help another.
> Everyone brings something to this thread even if they are only starting out on the long journey that is IBD,every experience adds to the "think tank" the only real difference is I think Nicola and myself have been "involved" a bit longer :rolleyes
> So nice to read that Dylan is doing well  ,I know what you saying about the difference in their whole attitude to life/food/surroundings when they are well the difference is huge and you realise that when they were quiet it was more than just being lazy .
> Meeko is a noisy boy when he is well,loves to flick stuff of work tops just to get attention and usually yelling at the top of his lungs for effect /runs around the house like a loon.It is usually easy to see when he is feeling a bit "off"
> so when he is behaving himself I worry and I'm so glad when he starts being naughty again .
> Right now he is outside in his run ,has been in and out running through his tunnel,yelling at me then shooting back out along the tunnel to his run,the boy is mad :crazy:


Couldn't have put it better myself..that's why when I see a thread my cat has ibd I'm the one that's normally asking what tests, treatments etc as it all can not only potentially help Riley but others as well.

Pleased to hear Meeko is crazy!! I've started the thirty day shred (it's a killer) Riley is fascinated when I exercise and has to do it with me 



Forester said:


> Its great to hear that Meeko is " mad" . Long may it continue.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the day when all of our IBD cats are "mad"


Agreed!!



bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone. Hope all ok and coping. I haven't got on for a few days as forum being odd.
> 
> Blue is ok. The mackerel will not be repeated. We are staying in or on supervised walks as we have creamfields on and I am on alert. I am still adding water to all foods and have tried some prawns last night which seem to be ok.
> 
> All have a good long weekend..i don't think you can buy cat ear defenders x


Pleased to hear blue is "ok" hope it's not too noises for you all.



sarahecp said:


> Thanks Buffie xx
> 
> Dire rear is a side effect but so were many other things. So I just don't know. I remember you saying Meeko was itchy.
> 
> I found a qtr of a white tablet on the floor earlier, it could be the Bricanyl or the Metronidazole, they are both the same size and don't remember which one I gave him first this morning  oh well better luck with tonight's pills.
> 
> We've had no more poos since this morning, I've given Roman a little bit of the dry with each meal, the same with Frank and Seb, they all seem to really like it
> 
> Pleased to hear Meeko is ok and having fun :thumbup: sounds like he's having a great start to the bank holiday weekend   keep it up Meeko :thumbup: xx
> 
> I agree with you, without the advice, help and support from Nicola, Buffie and yourself I wouldn't know where to turn, so again thank you all xxx And who else would think talking about poo and bums was normal
> 
> I've shed many tears reading though this thread
> 
> Pleased to hear Dylan is back to terrorising the house again, well done Dylan :thumbup: xx
> 
> The forums been playing up for me too.
> 
> Glad Blue is ok   and glad the prawns seemed to be ok :thumbup: xx


I thought it was normal to talk about poo, bums and also have photos of bums (Riley's not randoms) on your phone. It's not my screensaver or anything like that :w00t: :001_tongue:

I'm busy busy this bank holiday, hospital tomorrow then it's hedgehog day Monday! So will be there trying to raise money. We have over 100 now..mental it is mental! Pleased send us some sunshine vibes


----------



## bluecordelia

Creamfields is the festival linked to cream nightclub in Liverpool. If any ib kitties feel like a boogie i am sooo lucky to get free tickets! 

Is blue the only female with ib ! I know without this sticky i would have buckled as there at times is no light at the tunnel end. 

Hi to roman...love the name. 
Speak soon everyone x


----------



## Forester

There has been so much on this thread during the last couple of days that I've wanted to comment on . Unfortunately ( or fortunately ) Dylan hasn't given me a chance.

He's been making up for when he felt poorly. I could have done with sending him to bluecordelia for a boogie last night as he was so hyped up. Da Bird and I are exhausted.. I know that its probably only temporary but ,as buffie says, I'm going to enjoy the good times.

Its great to hear that Blue has joined " the o k boys". I'll make that " the o k gang". I've actually often thought it odd that we seem to have an over representation of boys on this thread. Can there be any significance? I wonder whether there is any link between urinary and bowel issues. Probably my imagination working overtime.

Bluecordelia, its good to know that you use Felini complete with cooked meat. If Dyl continues to do well with the cooked rabbit I may try it.

Nicola, You've given me the best laugh I've had for ages. I really shouldn't have been trying to drink coffee whilst reading your comment about having a photo of Riley's bum as a screensaver.!:lol::lol:

I'm sorry that I haven't multi-quoted ( thanks , buffie) but I couldn't cope with it whilst cooking Sunday lunch *and *throwing Dylan's ball.

Here's hoping that Roman will soon be joining" the o k gang". How does he seem today, Sarah?

Love to all IBD slaves and kitties.x


----------



## bluecordelia

Forrester you have got me thinking about girls n boys bits now! I know us hooman girls are more at risk of infections and bowel adhesions but I am no cat anatomy expert. I as sure blue is a stresshead primarily...she was from a big litter of boys and was scrapping all day. Over the last 8 months I have tried to look at all areas ie diet sleep play and interaction. She now purrs. We have cracked the litter tray by giving her an empty tray and the manic mirror and glass treading is no more. 


I believe vets take us down a medical route ie fix the symptoms not the cause. I will get off my soapbox now and of course any ib kitty is welcome for a boogie or a go on blues tractor tyre 



Tale care everyone and roman big hugs x


----------



## sarahecp

Afternoon all  hope all cats and slaves are well and enjoying the bank holiday weekend. 

Nicola, hope all goes well with the hedgehogs tomorrow, lots of sunshine vibes coming your way. 

Things are not too bad here today, Ro had a better poo last night and this morning, we're back to the runny with semi soft again, that's 2 like that so far, this mornings one looked like the colour of wet clay. OH decided to let him out earlier when I'd popped to the shops, he knows he's only allowed out supervised at the moment and he wasn't supervising him  so I've now resorted to sniffing his bum   thankfully he smelled quite fresh  I've added a little bit more of the dry to their food today, they're still liking it   

Forester, Sounds like Dylan is keeping you busy and on your toes, soooo pleased he's having fun, and I bet you've got a big smile on your face :yesnod: keep it up Dylan. 

I have a pot of Fellini if you want me to send it to you. I opened it to see what it looked like  and I've never used it. Fussy masters won't eat raw, well Frank will but only has it as a treat. 


Bluecordelia, I think we could all do with a good boogie   what's the music like? Is it all this young stuff that makes me feel old?   

Love and hugs to all xx xx


----------



## sarahecp

Here's a pic of Roman's baldy tummy, it feels soooooo soft


----------



## Forester

Sending sunshine vibes for Nicola for tomorrow  I meant to do it earlier but forgot. When you get to my age its hard to remember anything for more than 5 minutes. Please don't overdo the thirty minute shred. Its easy to injure yourself when you get carried away and I'm sure that Riley loves you uninjured and just as you are.

Sarah, I'd love the Felini if you are 100% sure that you won't use it. I'll PM you. Roman's tummy looks so soft and cuddly, no wonder you couldn't stop touching it.

Bluecordelia, I agree with you that we probably need to take a more holistic view when looking at IBD. 
I haven't been able to provide him with a tractor tyre but since his recent improvement his favourite game is " the bookcase challenge". The game involves jumping , as far as possible, off the top of a bookcase. More points are scored if you can jump *over *a human.

Yay, Meeko, keep up the madness.


----------



## nicolaa123

Hmmmm Riley had madness at 6 o'clock this morning  I was trying to sleep and all I had was his loudest purr in my ear, then the single claw until I gave in and we had a small play then he went back to sleep and I was wide awake!!

Pleased to hear Romans poo is a bit more solid, hopefully going in the right direction.

Also great to hear Dylan is wearing out his slave 

Hopefully "ok" ness with stay with blue

And that meeko is still magnificent!!


----------



## sarahecp

I've been allowed to kiss his baldy tummy, had to be quick just in case I got a bunny kick to the head


----------



## buffie

Evening all   . 
Sarah what a nice neat job they did on Romans tummy,poor Meeko was shaved to within an inch of his life 
Hope everyone is still doing okay,Meeko had a "moment" through the night but it was just a little bit,although its amazing how far he can throw it :arf:.As always it hasn't bothered him and he has eaten fairly well and been out in his run most of the day,popping back in only to eat or for a comfort break


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Evening all   .
> Sarah what a nice neat job they did on Romans tummy,poor Meeko was shaved to within an inch of his life
> Hope everyone is still doing okay,Meeko had a "moment" through the night but it was just a little bit,although its amazing how far he can throw it :arf:.As always it hasn't bothered him and he has eaten fairly well and been out in his run most of the day,popping back in only to eat or for a comfort break


I thought it was nice and neat too 

Sorry to hear Mr M had a moment, glad he's ok and hope he still is today and still eating well.

Not sure what your weather has been like today but it hasn't stopped raining all day, well since early hours this morning. The boys have been in most if the day snuggled up on the bed. I had to take Roman out in it this morning as he wouldn't stop shouting at me to go out, I got soaked  the rain just ran off his fur, the things us slaves do to keep our masters happy.

We've had 2 not so bad poos today, they are defiantly getting better, not sure if it's the metronidazole or the food, whatever, I'm happy we're going in the right direction 

Nicola, I do hope you haven't had the same weather as us, but I'm thinking you probably have, if you did I hope it didn't spoil your day and hope it went well.

I hope Riley, Dylan and Blue are all doing well.

Enjoy the rest of your bank holiday xx xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I thought it was nice and neat too
> 
> Sorry to hear Mr M had a moment, glad he's ok and hope he still is today and still eating well.
> 
> Not sure what your weather has been like today but it hasn't stopped raining all day, well since early hours this morning. The boys have been in most if the day snuggled up on the bed. I had to take Roman out in it this morning as he wouldn't stop shouting at me to go out, I got soaked  the rain just ran off his fur, the things us slaves do to keep our masters happy.
> 
> We've had 2 not so bad poos today, they are defiantly getting better, not sure if it's the metronidazole or the food, whatever, I'm happy we're going in the right direction
> 
> Nicola, I do hope you haven't had the same weather as us, but I'm thinking you probably have, if you did I hope it didn't spoil your day and hope it went well.
> 
> I hope Riley, Dylan and Blue are all doing well.
> 
> Enjoy the rest of your bank holiday xx xx


Great news that Roman's offerings seem to be improving , long may it continue 
Weather here is a bit mixed but definitely chillier than it has been,Meeko is not quite so keen to be sitting around in the run,so is spending a bit more time in his favourite hot spots.
Hope all other IBD'ers are doing well


----------



## nicolaa123

Same weather.  complete wash out  hardly anyone came  all the craft stuff is being left out so can be sold through the week.

Such a shame it really is, but can't predict the weather


----------



## Forester

Fantastic news about Roman's poo. It sounds as though he's feeling better. It must be easing your worries Sarah.

I've felt for you today with the weather, Nicola. How disappointing to put so much effort in and have the event spoilt by the rain. Hoping that the items will still sell and raise funds for the hogs. 

Fingers crossed that Meeko will refrain from having any more " moments".

Dylan is still keeping his food down but has slept most of the day so far today. I'm bracing myself ( but also hoping for ) a period of intense activity later on.

Love to Riley, Meeko, Blue, Roman and any other IBDers whose slaves may be reading. x


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Great news that Roman's offerings seem to be improving , long may it continue
> Weather here is a bit mixed but definitely chillier than it has been,Meeko is not quite so keen to be sitting around in the run,so is spending a bit more time in his favourite hot spots.
> Hope all other IBD'ers are doing well


Thanks Buffie xx fingers crossed.

I don't blame Meeko, wish I could snuggle up in in one the cat tree beds 

The temperature has dropped quite a bit over the last week and feeling it more today. It's still raining and Roman still wants to go out  Frank is out the silly boy, sitting on the wall getting wet  sure he does it on purpose, he loves being dried with the towel 



nicolaa123 said:


> Same weather.  complete wash out  hardly anyone came  all the craft stuff is being left out so can be sold through the week.
> 
> Such a shame it really is, but can't predict the weather


Sorry the weather was [email protected] for you  fingers crossed all the craft bits get sold through the week.



Forester said:


> Fantastic news about Roman's poo. It sounds as though he's feeling better. It must be easing your worries Sarah.
> 
> I've felt for you today with the weather, Nicola. How disappointing to put so much effort in and have the event spoilt by the rain. Hoping that the items will still sell and raise funds for the hogs.
> 
> Fingers crossed that Meeko will refrain from having any more " moments".
> 
> Dylan is still keeping his food down but has slept most of the day so far today. I'm bracing myself ( but also hoping for ) a period of intense activity later on.
> 
> Love to Riley, Meeko, Blue, Roman and any other IBDers whose slaves may be reading. x


Thanks Sylv xx it's made me feel better and a little more positive about things today.

Glad to hear Dylan is still keeping food down


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Same weather.  complete wash out  hardly anyone came  all the craft stuff is being left out so can be sold through the week.
> 
> Such a shame it really is, but can't predict the weather


What a shame,why does the weather always have to change when we need it to stay fine .Hope you manage to get all the craft stuff sold xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Thanks all.. It was a shame but that's life!!

To top it all off, came home and Riley had jus used his tray and it was the sit kiser pop ever!! I mean I know his don't smell like roses but wow it bought tears to my eyes!! Soft at the end but that's pretty normal for him, but boy oh boy the smell!!

Hope all other are doing well !

Edit I do love spell check on my phone.. Sit kisser pop should actually read stinkiest poo ever


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks all.. It was a shame but that's life!!
> 
> To top it all off, came home and Riley had jus used his tray and it was the sit kiser pop ever!! I mean I know his don't smell like roses but wow it bought tears to my eyes!! Soft at the end but that's pretty normal for him, but boy oh boy the smell!!
> 
> Hope all other are doing well !
> 
> Edit I do love spell check on my phone.. Sit kisser pop should actually read stinkiest poo ever


I was wondering what 'sit kiser pop' was and was going to google it :lol:

I have to double check my posts if I'm using my phone, the spell checker is a nightmare


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks all.. It was a shame but that's life!!
> 
> To top it all off, came home and Riley had jus used his tray and it was the sit kiser pop ever!! I mean I know his don't smell like roses but wow it bought tears to my eyes!! Soft at the end but that's pretty normal for him, but boy oh boy the smell!!
> 
> Hope all other are doing well !
> 
> *Edit I do love spell check on my phone.. Sit kisser pop should actually read stinkiest poo ever *





sarahecp said:


> I was wondering what 'sit kiser pop' was and was going to google it :lol:
> 
> I have to double check my posts if I'm using my phone, the spell checker is a nightmare


Not just me then :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Thanks all.. It was a shame but that's life!!
> 
> To top it all off, came home and Riley had jus used his tray and it was the sit kiser pop ever!! I mean I know his don't smell like roses but wow it bought tears to my eyes!! Soft at the end but that's pretty normal for him, but boy oh boy the smell!!
> 
> Hope all other are doing well !
> 
> Edit I do love spell check on my phone.. Sit kisser pop should actually read stinkiest poo ever


What a relief!. Its good to know that I'm not the only one who was confused.


----------



## Forester

How is everyone today?

I've been hoping that Riley and Roman will have provided sweet smelling ( o k , just not stinky  )tray offerings today and that Meeko and Blue will have had quiet, uneventful days.

Dylan did not have the expected mad session yesterday evening. He just slept, and snored. He has slept all day again today although is eating well and keeping his food to himself. I must confess to having been googling and so assume that the lethargy is a consequence of the prednisolone. I tried to report back to my vets today, as requested by them, but have been unable to speak to a vet as they've been so busy post bank holiday weekend.

love to all.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> How is everyone today?
> 
> I've been hoping that Riley and Roman will have provided sweet smelling ( o k , just not stinky  )tray offerings today and that Meeko and Blue will have had quiet, uneventful days.
> 
> Dylan did not have the expected mad session yesterday evening. He just slept, and snored. He has slept all day again today although is eating well and keeping his food to himself. I must confess to having been googling and so assume that the lethargy is a consequence of the prednisolone. I tried to report back to my vets today, as requested by them, but have been unable to speak to a vet as they've been so busy post bank holiday weekend.
> 
> love to all.


Well I didn't have to wear a gas mask when I came home! Offering was same as it always is..hard, medium with a touch of soft at the end 

I think he has separation issues tho..when I come home from work he is going mental miowing at me, following me, under my feet..sometimes he does it when I leave the room :scared: or in the morning after waking up!

Pleased to hear Dylan is keeping his food to himself! Maybe he just felt like a lazy day..I know that's what I will be having tomorrow!!

Hope all others are "ok"


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Well I didn't have to wear a gas mask when I came home! Offering was same as it always is..hard, medium with a touch of soft at the end
> 
> I think he has separation issues tho..when I come home from work he is going mental miowing at me, following me, under my feet..sometimes he does it when I leave the room :scared: or in the morning after waking up!


Its great that the poo is not so stinky and that the consistency is comparable with normal offerings.

Dylan has a habit of wandering into the kitchen at night and then calling out as if he's been abandoned. I call out to him when he does this and he rushes into the bedroom then smothers me with kisses. When he came back from the cattery I was not allowed out of sight for several days.

Riley's attachment to you is understandable, after all, you are his world


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Its great that the poo is not so stinky and that the consistency is comparable with normal offerings.
> 
> Dylan has a habit of wandering into the kitchen at night and then calling out as if he's been abandoned. I call out to him when he does this and he rushes into the bedroom then smothers me with kisses. When he came back from the cattery I was not allowed out of sight for several days.
> 
> Riley's attachment to you is understandable, after all, you are his world


I love being his world I really do..but if he could just turn the volume down at 4 am I would be most happy


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> How is everyone today?
> 
> I've been hoping that Riley and Roman will have provided sweet smelling ( o k , just not stinky  )tray offerings today and that Meeko and Blue will have had quiet, uneventful days.
> 
> Dylan did not have the expected mad session yesterday evening. He just slept, and snored. He has slept all day again today although is eating well and keeping his food to himself. I must confess to having been googling and so assume that the lethargy is a consequence of the prednisolone. I tried to report back to my vets today, as requested by them, but have been unable to speak to a vet as they've been so busy post bank holiday weekend.
> 
> love to all.


Well, I can't repeat what the OH said on the phone to me this afternoon about the smell and it wasn't Sit Kisser Pop :lol: on asking what it looked like, well you can imagine  I had to wait until I got home to inspect it, it was the same as yesterday's and it's the only one today, though he did go during the night and that was the same too  he's not been so good with his meds, eventually got them down him. We have 2 days left. I took him out in the garden when I got in from work, he now seems quite contented he's been allowed out .

Pleased to hear that Dylan is still eating well and keeping it down  : ) Roman slept quite a lot when he was on the Prednisolone, vet said he probably would and also made him wee a lot, big wee's too 

Hope all masters and slaves are well xx


----------



## sarahecp

Woohoo! At last, It's let me multi quote, something strange is going on, either the forum or my phone  I pressed submit on my last post and watched the line go across the top, then I look and it's not in the thread. Odd!!



nicolaa123 said:


> Well I didn't have to wear a gas mask when I came home! Offering was same as it always is..hard, medium with a touch of soft at the end
> 
> I think he has separation issues tho..when I come home from work he is going mental miowing at me, following me, under my feet..sometimes he does it when I leave the room :scared: or in the morning after waking up!
> 
> Pleased to hear Dylan is keeping his food to himself! Maybe he just felt like a lazy day..I know that's what I will be having tomorrow!!
> 
> Hope all others are "ok"





Forester said:


> Its great that the poo is not so stinky and that the consistency is comparable with normal offerings.
> 
> Dylan has a habit of wandering into the kitchen at night and then calling out as if he's been abandoned. I call out to him when he does this and he rushes into the bedroom then smothers me with kisses. When he came back from the cattery I was not allowed out of sight for several days.
> 
> Riley's attachment to you is understandable, after all, you are his world





nicolaa123 said:


> I love being his world I really do..but if he could just turn the volume down at 4 am I would be most happy


Pleased to hear all is o k with Riley  

Seb shouts a lot for no reason in particular, he's very vocal and defiantly does it for attention, when I ask what he wants or what's up, he gives me this look with a sort of grin   and Roman shouts very loudly, like an announcement, and always let's me know when he wants to use the tray about 10 minutes before he actually goes  Frank my angel is as quiet as a mouse


----------



## buffie

Meeko's slave reporting 
Good to read that everyone is still doing okay  all seems well with his Meekoship  except for the high pitched wailing coming from the kitchen because I've shut his tunnel hatch and he cant get out to his run 
Everything crossed here for a good week for all


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> all seems well with his Meekoship  except for the high pitched wailing coming from the kitchen because I've shut his tunnel hatch and he cant get out to his run :


He's going to expect access at all times, including in January when its 10 degrees below zero


----------



## bluecordelia

Bluey is still good
poop is formed and no dreaded mucky trousers. She is waking me up bombing around at 6am. 

Hope all tiddles and mums ok. X


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> He's going to expect access at all times, including in January when its 10 degrees below zero


Went through that last winter so that he had access to his little run attached to the back door,it was bl**dy freezing 
Thinking of putting a flap type door in the kitchen door that leads into the porch/run over the back door, that way he can come and go and Hurricane Nellie wont blow through the whole house.You do get some funny looks when you wear coat/hat /gloves indoors


----------



## nicolaa123

Slight set back today, but to be honest I was expecting it as his routine was changed as I was at home.. Nothing major just very runny and I had to clean his tail..

I'm really looking at the psychological side of things. I needed a good nights sleep so closed the bedroom door, I woke to him crying and stressed then he had a runny one. I need to look more into this separation issue thing I think, or just never have a good nights sleep again


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Slight set back today, but to be honest I was expecting it as his routine was changed as I was at home.. Nothing major just very runny and I had to clean his tail..
> 
> I'm really looking at the psychological side of things. I needed a good nights sleep so closed the bedroom door, I woke to him crying and stressed then he had a runny one. I need to look more into this separation issue thing I think, or just never have a good nights sleep again


Have you tried Feliway or Zylkene ? I haven't tried Zylkene with a cat but it certainly calmed my horse who is anxious with the farrier. I know that you would , understandably, be nervous about adding anything to Riley's diet but it might be worth discussing with your vet.

Hoping that this is only a minor setback and that Riley will be feeling better , and more relaxed, tomorrow.

Love to all


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Slight set back today, but to be honest I was expecting it as his routine was changed as I was at home.. Nothing major just very runny and I had to clean his tail..
> 
> I'm really looking at the psychological side of things. I needed a good nights sleep so closed the bedroom door, I woke to him crying and stressed then he had a runny one. I need to look more into this separation issue thing I think, or just never have a good nights sleep again


Sorry to read about Rileys little set back  I have to agree with you about the psychological side of things,I am becoming more convinced of a strong connection between stress and IBD.


----------



## sarahecp

Morning all, hope masters and slaves are all well.

Nicola, really sorry to hear about Riley  fingers crossed all is ok now this morning. 

We had the same with Roman Tuesday evening and yesterday morning having watery poo's, no change with food, still having the Felix with the mix of the RC SC dry.

I left about 15 mins earlier than normal this morning and he hadn't been then, nothing since yesterday morning, so hoping I go home at lunchtime to a nice poo.


----------



## buffie

Morning,how are all the gang this morning,hope all are doing well and there are no more runny botts or vomiting.
Meeko is "just Meeko" and that will do me


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Morning,how are all the gang this morning,hope all are doing well and there are no more runny botts or vomiting.
> Meeko is "just Meeko" and that will do me


What do you mean "*just *Meeko" ?:nonod: He's the Magnificent Meeko. I'm pleased to hear that he's o. k.. Hoping that Riley, Roman and Blue will also be o k today and that any runny bums will have settled.

Dyl's still o k too. My vet suggested yesterday that I could double the prednisolone dosage if I wish. I've said that I prefer to leave it as it is whilst he's not vomiting. I've been told to keep him on just boiled rabbit with one pouch of SC daily. The felini ( Thanks again , Sarah ) will wait till I get clearance for it. The vet sounded pleased that Dylan's vomiting has reduced over the last month. He now vomits once or twice then goes around 10 days before it happens again. I'm happy as I'm sure that he's gaining the weight which he lost. He looks so much better. I know that its got a lot to do with the pred .but the improvement did start as soon as I replaced most of the SC with fish/rabbit.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> What do you mean "*just *Meeko" ?:nonod: He's the Magnificent Meeko. I'm pleased to hear that he's o. k.. Hoping that Riley, Roman and Blue will also be o k today and that any runny bums will have settled.
> 
> Dyl's still o k too. My vet suggested yesterday that I could double the prednisolone dosage if I wish. I've said that I prefer to leave it as it is whilst he's not vomiting. I've been told to keep him on just boiled rabbit with one pouch of SC daily. The felini ( Thanks again , Sarah ) will wait till I get clearance for it. The vet sounded pleased that Dylan's vomiting has reduced over the last month. He now vomits once or twice then goes around 10 days before it happens again. I'm happy as I'm sure that he's gaining the weight which he lost. He looks so much better. I know that its got a lot to do with the pred .but the improvement did start as soon as I replaced most of the SC with fish/rabbit.


Okay he is Magnificent in his own way  
Good that Dylan is still doing well ,agree with you about not doubling the pred ,don't want any more of that in his system than is needed.
Paws crossed it is the food that has helped him the most.


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> agree with you about not doubling the pred ,don't want any more of that in his system than is needed.
> Paws crossed it is the food that has helped him the most.


I'm glad that you see things as I do. I don't want any more steroids in his system than are necessary.

I'm starting to wonder whether " low fat " may be part of the answer rather than a problem with one or more proteins. Dylan was awful with Omm Nom Nom chicken at 6 and 1/2% fat but o k with Applaws chicken breast at 0.2%. The natures menu chicken and turkey, which was the first product I noticed that he couldn't take was also 6 and 1/2 %. Does anyone here have any views re fat levels in food and IBD ?

Love to all , along with vibes for solid poo and no " Meeko moments".


----------



## nicolaa123

I can't seem to multi quote, not sure if me or the forum but I can't seem to "like" a lot of the time either 

I have thought about feliway and I will get one and try it..not sure on the zyklene I would need to check with the vet due to his other meds... No offerings as yet ..time will tell. I agree about the pred, better to start low and build up if needed. How long will he be on the pred?

Hope all others are ok..

I'm wondering if I could see a cat behaviourist about ibd or do you think they only deal with bad behaviour like scratching etc..


----------



## sarahecp

Evening all, 

Nicola, I'm having issues again too, so thinking it's the forum and not us. I don't see why you can't see a behaviourist for IBD, I'm sure there are ones that specialise in all sorts and not just bad behaviour. 

There was no poo at lunch time but was when I got home this afternoon. It was a little bit soft with a separate firmer bit, so I'm happier about that  Last 1/4 of the meds will be tomorrow morning.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi all

I cant multi at all..
Soz.

Blue ok. Food ok. 

I am a huge believer in a bio psych social approach to health. I avoid them vets as i want to get to the root of problem rather than treat symptoms. Bluey never had any tests or biopsies but I read an American article which believed there are social and psychological causes in most cases.

Bluey used to get so uptight when i left for work
her first bad flare up was 2 weeks after losing Saul. I know we all adore our cats but she needed a pal along with high shelves,runs and loads of ideas about toiletting
I hope our group has only had one runny poop. Xx


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> I can't seem to multi quote, not sure if me or the forum but I can't seem to "like" a lot of the time either
> 
> I have thought about feliway and I will get one and try it..not sure on the zyklene I would need to check with the vet due to his other meds... No offerings as yet ..time will tell. I agree about the pred, better to start low and build up if needed. How long will he be on the pred?
> 
> Hope all others are ok..
> 
> I'm wondering if I could see a cat behaviourist about ibd or do you think they only deal with bad behaviour like scratching etc..


My internet has been down so just managed to get back on .
As Sarah said don't see why you cant get a behaviourists take on IBD especially when you think about Shoshannah's thread about "Pandora's Syndrome"
There may be nothing in it but I feel Meeko has been so much more relaxed recently and has also not had many "bad days",infact it is 4 months since he was last at the vet, a record for him I think.(probably jinxed it now )


----------



## sarahecp

Hope all are doing well today. 

Roman is fine, 2 poos so far and both the same as yesterday's, so taking that as a good thing  

I'm not feeling good about things today  and being the worry wort I am, been thinking that I've done the wrong thing in giving dry food to Roman (and Frank & Seb). It took a while for me to get Seb and Roman off of the dry and on to a completely wet diet and now we've gone backwards  I tried Roman with the i/d, d/d and z/d wet foods but a lick isn't enough and he wouldn't entertain them, maybe I didn't try long and hard enough and I know I said that if he eats the dry (I know he would) and it helps him I'll be happy but I can't help but worry. 

I know I need to wait until after his endoscopy and the results on what is going on but I think I just need some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Hope all are doing well today.
> 
> Roman is fine, 2 poos so far and both the same as yesterday's, so taking that as a good thing
> 
> I'm not feeling good about things today  and being the worry wort I am, been thinking that I've done the wrong thing in giving dry food to Roman (and Frank & Seb). It took a while for me to get Seb and Roman off of the dry and on to a completely wet diet and now we've gone backwards  I tried Roman with the i/d, d/d and z/d wet foods but a lick isn't enough and he wouldn't entertain them, maybe I didn't try long and hard enough and I know I said that if he eats the dry (I know he would) and it helps him I'll be happy but I can't help but worry.
> 
> I know I need to wait until after his endoscopy and the results on what is going on but I think I just need some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing.


Good news in the poo department  Not really sure I can reassure you that you are doing the right thing ,what I can say is that I would most probably be doing the same thing you are.If Roman wont eat the wet food and the dry is helping him then I would carry on for a while at least until all tests etc have been run and a possible diagnosis found.
Once you know what you are dealing with it might be easier to find a suitable wet food that he likes .
It can be quite difficult to find a food that he likes and doesn't react badly to so if the dry is helping that has to be a good thing.
I'm sure a few weeks of dry feeding wont hurt but I do understand your worry that he will become to hooked on it.
If only they weren't so bl**dy fussy


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Good news in the poo department  Not really sure I can reassure you that you are doing the right thing ,what I can say is that I would most probably be doing the same thing you are.If Roman wont eat the wet food and the dry is helping him then I would carry on for a while at least until all tests etc have been run and a possible diagnosis found.
> Once you know what you are dealing with it might be easier to find a suitable wet food that he likes .
> It can be quite difficult to find a food that he likes and doesn't react badly to so if the dry is helping that has to be a good thing.
> I'm sure a few weeks of dry feeding wont hurt but I do understand your worry that he will become to hooked on it.
> If only they weren't so bl**dy fussy


Thanks Buffie 

I don't know if it's the food that is helping or if it was the meds, whatever it is it seems to be improving 

Tell me about the fussiness  Roman is worse than Seb and I thought Seb was bad, I wish they were all like Frank, he has his off days but most of the time will eat anything.

I'll try not to worry for the moment and just concentrate on getting him better and a diagnosis.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Buffie
> 
> I* don't know if it's the food that is helping or if it was the meds*, whatever it is it seems to be improving
> 
> Tell me about the fussiness  Roman is worse than Seb and I thought Seb was bad, I wish they were all like Frank, he has his off days but most of the time will eat anything.
> 
> I'll try not to worry for the moment and just concentrate on getting him better and a diagnosis.


This is often the problem when too many things change or are added to the equation  the main thing at the moment is that Roman seems to be improving 
Meeko takes "fussy" to its limits  he really is a PITA with food


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> This is often the problem when too many things change or are added to the equation  the main thing at the moment is that Roman seems to be improving
> Meeko takes "fussy" to its limits  he really is a PITA with food


Yes, I agree  let's hope he continues to improve.

Sounds like Meeko and Roman are very similar


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi all 
All cats not just ib are fussy monkeys. My sisters rescue cat would eat anything...peas chips crisps but now turns his nose up at any crap food...thank god. 

I would be happy to let bluey have dry for a but as when she wad really bad the rc dry off the vet was one of the few things i could get down her. She loves prawns now and tuna..
Not given every day and always with extra water. I laughed at the post on the cost of feeding wet. Blue gets a weekly shop off my oh from marks!

Hope cats ok...x


----------



## Forester

Its brilliant news that Roman is improving.

Sarah, you are not alone in feeding something recommended by your vet when you believe that there could be better options. I was strongly against feeding the RC Sensitivity Control pouches to Dylan due to the cereals, sugar, low meat content etc however I bowed to pressure from the vet. I suspect that , in your position, lots of us would have taken the same option as you. I justified the decision to myself by saying that it would only be for a short time and that I would get him back on to something else as soon as I could. Roman, plus Seb and Frankie have the rest of their lives ahead of them for you to get them back onto what you would prefer to feed once this acute situation with Roman has passed. Please try not to worry.

You've all got me thinking about stress and also separation anxiety. I went out yesterday evening ( rare for me ) and OH reported that Dyl spent the entire evening in the kitchen watching the back door presumably waiting for me to return. OH checked on him every half hour , tried to entice him away/ play with him but he refused to leave his observation post. In the past he has cried when I have gone out but the situation does seem to be getting worse.

Dylan has been vomit free for 10 days now. Its just this minute occurred to me perhaps the spell at the cattery has made him more clingy with me.

Love to all masters ( and mistresses !) and slaves.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Its brilliant news that Roman is improving.
> 
> Sarah, you are not alone in feeding something recommended by your vet when you believe that there could be better options. I was strongly against feeding the RC Sensitivity Control pouches to Dylan due to the cereals, sugar, low meat content etc however I bowed to pressure from the vet. I suspect that , in your position, lots of us would have taken the same option as you. I justified the decision to myself by saying that it would only be for a short time and that I would get him back on to something else as soon as I could. Roman, plus Seb and Frankie have the rest of their lives ahead of them for you to get them back onto what you would prefer to feed once this acute situation with Roman has passed. Please try not to worry.
> 
> You've all got me thinking about stress and also separation anxiety. I went out yesterday evening ( rare for me ) and OH reported that Dyl spent the entire evening in the kitchen watching the back door presumably waiting for me to return. OH checked on him every half hour , tried to entice him away/ play with him but he refused to leave his observation post. In the past he has cried when I have gone out but the situation does seem to be getting worse.
> 
> Dylan has been vomit free for 10 days now. Its just this minute occurred to me perhaps the spell at the cattery has made him more clingy with me.
> 
> Love to all masters ( and mistresses !) and slaves.


Thanks Sylv 

The RC dry is probably as bad as the Felix but at least the Felix is wet. Frank and Seb used to eat all the good quality foods, then Roman I Love Felix came along  I still have loads of the good foods, it sits and looks at me unloved every time I go to the cupboard, I tell myself one day they'll eat it again.

You and Buffie are right, I need to not worry for now and wait until after the diagnosis.

That's great news, well done Dylan :thumbup: hope he continues to improve.


----------



## nicolaa123

I too have fed dry, plus would again if I knew it would help! Thing is dry made his poo too hard and irritated his polyp/prolapse (which vet said was polyp and that was what I could see last time on his bum) 

Well today I have bought a feliway plug in to see if this will help at all. Riley this morning was chewing my elbow to wake me up, I put him in the front room and closed the door, he got himself all worked up! I come home from work and we have a runny poo in the tray. Yesterday I didn't shut him out the bedroom, just didn't have much sleep, and there was a lovely formed and firm (but not too hard goldilocks) poo.

So we will see if it works, or I might try playing whale music to him


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Sylv
> 
> The RC dry is probably as bad as the Felix but at least the Felix is wet. Frank and Seb used to eat all the good quality foods, then Roman I Love Felix came along  I still have loads of the good foods, it sits and looks at me unloved every time I go to the cupboard, I tell myself one day they'll eat it again.
> 
> You and Buffie are right, I need to not worry for now and wait until after the diagnosis.
> 
> That's great news, well done Dylan :thumbup: hope he continues to improve.


 IMO, for what that's worth, the most important factor to consider is that the food seems to be helping Roman.:thumbup1:

Could you perhaps offer some of the " good" food at the same time ? It wouldn't matter that Roman doesn't eat it but it would be available if Frank or Seb fancied something other than the RC/Felix. You would probably be providing more food than would be eaten but you might manage to preserve Frank and Seb's taste for the better quality food.



nicolaa123 said:


> I too have fed dry, plus would again if I knew it would help! Thing is dry made his poo too hard and irritated his polyp/prolapse (which vet said was polyp and that was what I could see last time on his bum)
> 
> Well today I have bought a feliway plug in to see if this will help at all. Riley this morning was chewing my elbow to wake me up, I put him in the front room and closed the door, he got himself all worked up! I come home from work and we have a runny poo in the tray. Yesterday I didn't shut him out the bedroom, just didn't have much sleep, and there was a lovely formed and firm (but not too hard goldilocks) poo.
> 
> So we will see if it works, or I might try playing whale music to him


Good luck with the Feliway. .I have one plugged in for Dylan in the hope that it might help. I tried one with Eric , my previous cat, when he was poorly with his eye. I don't know whether it helped him but he was fascinated with the scent. He would walk around giving a flehmen response . I think that he may have thought that there was another cat in the house however, much as he searched, he couldn't find it.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I too have fed dry, plus would again if I knew it would help! Thing is dry made his poo too hard and irritated his polyp/prolapse (which vet said was polyp and that was what I could see last time on his bum)
> 
> Well today I have bought a feliway plug in to see if this will help at all. Riley this morning was chewing my elbow to wake me up, I put him in the front room and closed the door, he got himself all worked up! I come home from work and we have a runny poo in the tray. Yesterday I didn't shut him out the bedroom, just didn't have much sleep, and there was a lovely formed and firm (but not too hard goldilocks) poo.
> 
> So we will see if it works, or I might try playing whale music to him


I hope the Feliway plug in works and helps Riley. I had 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs plugged in a couple of years ago to see if it would help Frank with his nervousness, but it did nothing. I have found Zylkene very good. Classical music is meant to help cats relax, there was a thread in cat chat some time ago, I'll see if I can find it.



Forester said:


> IMO, for what that's worth, the most important factor to consider is that the food seems to be helping Roman.:thumbup1:
> 
> Could you perhaps offer some of the " good" food at the same time ? It wouldn't matter that Roman doesn't eat it but it would be available if Frank or Seb fancied something other than the RC/Felix. You would probably be providing more food than would be eaten but you might manage to preserve Frank and Seb's taste for the better quality food.
> 
> Good luck with the Feliway. .I have one plugged in for Dylan in the hope that it might help. I tried one with Eric , my previous cat, when he was poorly with his eye. I don't know whether it helped him but he was fascinated with the scent. He would walk around giving a flehmen response . I think that he may have thought that there was another cat in the house however, much as he searched, he couldn't find it.


Well, we've had a really runny poo tonight  but I'm trying not to stress.

I put the decent food down every now and then, but Frank and Seb turn their noses up, Roman has turned them into [email protected] food addicts   oh they eat Sheba fine flakes but that's not much better.


----------



## sarahecp

Found it 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/268087-soothing-music-cats.html?highlight=Classical+music


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I hope the Feliway plug in works and helps Riley. I had 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs plugged in a couple of years ago to see if it would help Frank with his nervousness, but it did nothing. I have found Zylkene very good. Classical music is meant to help cats relax, there was a thread in cat chat some time ago, I'll see if I can find it.
> 
> Well, we've had a really runny poo tonight  but I'm trying not to stress.
> 
> I put the decent food down every now and then, but Frank and Seb turn their noses up, Roman has turned them into [email protected] food addicts   oh they eat Sheba fine flakes but that's not much better.


It's hard not to stress..

..but ibd is a long road. Riley and I have been battling for over two years now with vet help

One of my first posts  http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-and-nutrition/228273-itchy-bum.html I was so stressed and worried about every moment..

Guess what I'm trying to say (badly) is it's a long road and things won't change overnight, could take couple of years to find the right regime whether that be meds or foods. That's why of you can (I know it's hard) try not to stress. It may help to keep a poo diary, noting what's been eaten, whether there has been outside time, what's happened in the home etc etc.

It's the triggers we all need to be able to identify, after all ibd will never go away but we can control the triggers..


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone,

I am plodding on with raw and a bit of wet commercial now. I can try something and its ok for a few days and then gets ignored. I remember reading something about cats not needing a huge variety in their diet but our lot our fussy and i suppose if like us you have a sore tum and the squits nothing takes your fancy. I keep putting water in all food as water bowl n fountain are being ignored. Blue slept all day Saturday as she got out when my son came in and I didn't realise until 4am as there wasn't 2 hefferlumps hogging the bed. 

Hope runny poops stop. Try water on your wet as mine lap it up before anything else. X


----------



## nicolaa123

Ok completely un related 

As I'm on holiday for two weeks, I am fostering two, two week old hoglets!

Eyes still closed but just starting to open, ears just opening. Feed time at 8o'clock so will get some photos for you then 

I took one out just to reassure Riley and he had a sniff but was ok with him. They are in a carrier anyway so safe from little paws!!


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Ok completely un related
> 
> As I'm on holiday for two weeks, I am fostering two, two week old hoglets!
> 
> Eyes still closed but just starting to open, ears just opening. Feed time at 8o'clock so will get some photos for you then
> 
> I took one out just to reassure Riley and he had a sniff but was ok with him. They are in a carrier anyway so safe from little paws!!


Oooh , can't wait to see them. Do they have names?


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Oooh , can't wait to see them. Do they have names?


Not chosen by me 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/377710-meet-badger-foxy.html?posted=1#post1063851757


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> It's hard not to stress..
> 
> ..but ibd is a long road. Riley and I have been battling for over two years now with vet help
> 
> One of my first posts  http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-and-nutrition/228273-itchy-bum.html I was so stressed and worried about every moment..
> 
> Guess what I'm trying to say (badly) is it's a long road and things won't change overnight, could take couple of years to find the right regime whether that be meds or foods. That's why of you can (I know it's hard) try not to stress. It may help to keep a poo diary, noting what's been eaten, whether there has been outside time, what's happened in the home etc etc.
> 
> It's the triggers we all need to be able to identify, after all ibd will never go away but we can control the triggers..


I know it is 

Not had a great weekend, getting myself upset about things again, need to pull myself together, not good as the boys will pick up on this, but its hard. 

Romans poo has been runny and soft at the same time again, Im still mixing the RC SC dry in with the Felix, adding more of the dry each day. Need to buy another bag from the vets today.

Just read your thread, I do remember this one. 

Its going to be a long road and Im prepared to try anything and everything for Roman. A poo diary is an excellent idea, thank you for that; Ive started jotting things down this morning.

How you getting on with the Feliway? 



nicolaa123 said:


> Not chosen by me
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/377710-meet-badger-foxy.html?posted=1#post1063851757


How cute are they  sooo adorable :001_wub: :001_wub:


----------



## Forester

Sarah,I'm sorry to hear that Roman's poo is still soft and runny. Is it any better than it was when you saw the referral vets? When do you hear back from/ report to them ? How does Roman seem in himself? Sending solidifying vibes for Roman and good luck vibes for you tomorrow.

Badger and Foxy are so cute though they do sound quite hard work. Their colouring suits their names perfectly. 

Sending best wishes to all.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Sarah,I'm sorry to hear that Roman's poo is still soft and runny. Is it any better than it was when you saw the referral vets? When do you hear back from/ report to them ? How does Roman seem in himself? Sending solidifying vibes for Roman and good luck vibes for you tomorrow.
> 
> Badger and Foxy are so cute though they do sound quite hard work. Their colouring suits their names perfectly.
> 
> Sending best wishes to all.


Thanks Sylv

It's the same really, it goes like this, runny, soft, little bit firmer, in between and then back again, it's all so intermittent. I thought we were getting somewhere or maybe trying to convince myself the AB's or the food was working.

Vets/Davies just want me to get him off the Felix and onto one of the prescription foods by the time we go in on Sunday, been introducing to slowly and giving more each day, maybe when he is off the Felix there may be a difference and no reporting back, just take him there on Sunday and he's booked to be scoped on Monday and hopefully get a diagnosis and take it from there.

He's fine in himself, still tormenting Feank and Seb and being his loony self   the only time he seemed under the weather was a few weeks ago when the watery dire rear started bad that was just for a couple of days.

Thank you, I'm scared


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Sylv
> 
> It's the same really, it goes like this, runny, soft, little bit firmer, in between and then back again, it's all so intermittent. I thought we were getting somewhere or maybe trying to convince myself the AB's or the food was working.
> 
> Vets/Davies just want me to get him off the Felix and onto one of the prescription foods by the time we go in on Sunday, been introducing to slowly and giving more each day, maybe when he is off the Felix there may be a difference and no reporting back, just take him there on Sunday and he's booked to be scoped on Monday and hopefully get a diagnosis and take it from there.
> 
> He's fine in himself, still tormenting Feank and Seb and being his loony self   the only time he seemed under the weather was a few weeks ago when the watery dire rear started bad that was just for a couple of days.
> 
> Thank you, I'm scared


Oh Sarah. I really do wish that there was a way to give a proper ((( hug ))) online.

You have Roman in the care of fantastic vets ( recommended by Nicola, how much better can you get? ) . You have to trust them. They deal with cases like Roman all of the time and know what they are doing. If you are anything like me its the waiting which makes things worse. Our imaginations run riot. I expect that your own need for an endoscopy will be adding to your anxiety levels.

Please don't worry about Roman's endoscopy. buffie and Nicola had already reassured me but Dylan took his completely in his stride. But for the shaved patch on his leg I would never have known that he'd had anything done. Please be aware that the endoscopy may not provide an answer to what is going on, though it should give you information about what isn't going on. Dylan's endoscopy revealed " absolutely nothing" but it did tell us that he doesn't have an ulcer or a tumour in his stomach.

Its so hard but you do need to try not to worry so much. Your worrying will not help Roman and he may well pick up on your anxiety. Take heart, he obviously feels well and isn't particularly bothered by the quality of his litter tray offerings.

Good luck for tomorrow. If you need a " chat " I'll be on the other end of a P M ( not going anywhere) for the rest of the day.

p s Cats really do pick up on our mood. I laid on the bed yesterday evening as I wasn't feeling well and Dylan refused to leave me. It was " playtime" but instead of playing he chose to cuddle up next to me.


----------



## nicolaa123

The hogs are not too much hard work, i only get them out to feed every four hours then I make them have a wee and a poo then they sleep for another 4 hours ..hard life !

Sarah sorry to hear roman is still runny, I know it can be exhausting, frustrating, annoying, I imagine you either want to scream or cry. I found a good scream followed by a good cry quite therapeutic! It can also make you feel incredibly guilty, guilty as you can't fix things and also the guilt at being frustrated annoyed etc etc..

Roman will be fine with the endeoscopy, he won't feel a thing  hopefully after they will have a direction to head in. If it is likely ibd and food is not helping there is always the drug Riley is on, it literally saved his life.

I imagine if it is ibd they will want to try ab's combined with pred to see if any improvement..


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I know it is
> 
> Not had a great weekend, getting myself upset about things again, need to pull myself together, not good as the boys will pick up on this, but its hard.
> 
> Romans poo has been runny and soft at the same time again, Im still mixing the RC SC dry in with the Felix, adding more of the dry each day. Need to buy another bag from the vets today.
> 
> Just read your thread, I do remember this one.
> 
> Its going to be a long road and Im prepared to try anything and everything for Roman. A poo diary is an excellent idea, thank you for that; Ive started jotting things down this morning.
> 
> How you getting on with the Feliway?
> 
> How cute are they  sooo adorable :001_wub: :001_wub:


Sarah I wish I had some suggestions to offer you but sadly I have none 
I know how worrying it is when you seem to be getting nowhere no matter what you try.
Hopefully the scope will give you a better idea to what is going on ,but even if it shows nothing at least that will remove a lot of the worries as to what _is_ going on.
I've been where you are and there have been times fairly recently when I have been worried sick about Meeko but each time he has come out the other side and is still marching on.I think what I'm trying to say (probably very badly  ) is that it does get easier and everytime you hit a rocky point and over come it the stronger it makes you.
I definitely think there is a link with being stressed so it makes sense if we get worried they pick it up ,which makes them more stressed making it harder for them to recover .
We are all here for each other so if you ever need to talk things through I'll PM my phone number if it would help.Take care xx


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Oh Sarah. I really do wish that there was a way to give a proper ((( hug ))) online.
> 
> You have Roman in the care of fantastic vets ( recommended by Nicola, how much better can you get? ) . You have to trust them. They deal with cases like Roman all of the time and know what they are doing. If you are anything like me its the waiting which makes things worse. Our imaginations run riot. I expect that your own need for an endoscopy will be adding to your anxiety levels.
> 
> Please don't worry about Roman's endoscopy. buffie and Nicola had already reassured me but Dylan took his completely in his stride. But for the shaved patch on his leg I would never have known that he'd had anything done. Please be aware that the endoscopy may not provide an answer to what is going on, though it should give you information about what isn't going on. Dylan's endoscopy revealed " absolutely nothing" but it did tell us that he doesn't have an ulcer or a tumour in his stomach.
> 
> Its so hard but you do need to try not to worry so much. Your worrying will not help Roman and he may well pick up on your anxiety. Take heart, he obviously feels well and isn't particularly bothered by the quality of his litter tray offerings.
> 
> Good luck for tomorrow. If you need a " chat " I'll be on the other end of a P M ( not going anywhere) for the rest of the day.
> 
> p s Cats really do pick up on our mood. I laid on the bed yesterday evening as I wasn't feeling well and Dylan refused to leave me. It was " playtime" but instead of playing he chose to cuddle up next to me.





nicolaa123 said:


> The hogs are not too much hard work, i only get them out to feed every four hours then I make them have a wee and a poo then they sleep for another 4 hours ..hard life !
> 
> Sarah sorry to hear roman is still runny, I know it can be exhausting, frustrating, annoying, I imagine you either want to scream or cry. I found a good scream followed by a good cry quite therapeutic! It can also make you feel incredibly guilty, guilty as you can't fix things and also the guilt at being frustrated annoyed etc etc..
> 
> Roman will be fine with the endeoscopy, he won't feel a thing  hopefully after they will have a direction to head in. If it is likely ibd and food is not helping there is always the drug Riley is on, it literally saved his life.
> 
> I imagine if it is ibd they will want to try ab's combined with pred to see if any improvement..





buffie said:


> Sarah I wish I had some suggestions to offer you but sadly I have none
> I know how worrying it is when you seem to be getting nowhere no matter what you try.
> Hopefully the scope will give you a better idea to what is going on ,but even if it shows nothing at least that will remove a lot of the worries as to what _is_ going on.
> I've been where you are and there have been times fairly recently when I have been worried sick about Meeko but each time he has come out the other side and is still marching on.I think what I'm trying to say (probably very badly  ) is that it does get easier and everytime you hit a rocky point and over come it the stronger it makes you.
> I definitely think there is a link with being stressed so it makes sense if we get worried they pick it up ,which makes them more stressed making it harder for them to recover .
> We are all here for each other so if you ever need to talk things through I'll PM my phone number if it would help.Take care xx


Thank you to the 3 of you  I really don't know what I'd do without you, your help, advice and support, and just being there. It really is nice to know that we can be there for each other xxx

I have had a good cry, I'd like to scream but I'm sure the neighbours will wonder what is going on and think I'm a bit ut:  I feel bit better as I've been holding it back for so long.

I know deep down that Roman will be ok when he has his scope, it's what I think they're going to find worries me more, we all have a very wild imagination when it comes to things like this don't we?!

Roman could be picking up on my stress and making him like this  going to try harder to be more positive.

No more poo since this morning and he's eaten more of the dry food, so we'll wait and see.

All 3 are sulking with me tonight  it's that time again for Advocate spot on, they hate it and me for all of a couple of hours  

Hope all masters and slaves are all ok xxx


----------



## buffie

Good to read that you have "released" some of the tension which has been building up,hope it has made you feel a bit better 

Meeko is having a "does my bum look big" day and not eating as much as I would like,doesnt seem to include treats though. 
I caught him pulling the cupboard door open and flicking the treat tub on to the floor,along with a couple of tubes of thrive treats.
This has been coming for a while now though,I think he is getting fed up of his "wet only" diet.
I did a urine test last week and all seems well,no blood and spec gravity okay so at least if I have to relent and give him a small amount of dry he should be okay.


----------



## bluecordelia

Sarah

We are all with you and wishing roman good vibes. I never went down the scoping route. Blue is a sensitive one so it goes straight to her gut
Thankfully we live in cat nirvana...fields grass mice and plenty of warm sunny rooms if she wants to be alone. 

With the poop it really is one day at a time until you breath and realise there has been a small step forward.

Take care xx


----------



## sarahecp

Evening all, 

I wanted to thank you all again for all your support and well, everything really  xx xx

Roman is still good in himself  in fact, he's been extra loony today  his poo was better today than it was yesterday. Keeping all details in his Poo Diary and will take it along with me on Sunday when I take him in. We're another day closer. 

All went fine with my endoscopy, don't know what I was worried about  had some biopsies done, need to wait for the results but have been diagnosed with Helicobacter Pylori, nothing serious and can be treated, I'll see my doctor once results are back and take it from there. 

Hope all masters, mistresses and slaves are well.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Evening all,
> 
> I wanted to thank you all again for all your support and well, everything really  xx xx
> 
> Roman is still good in himself  in fact, he's been extra loony today  his poo was better today than it was yesterday. Keeping all details in his Poo Diary and will take it along with me on Sunday when I take him in. We're another day closer.
> 
> All went fine with my endoscopy, don't know what I was worried about  had some biopsies done, need to wait for the results but have been diagnosed with Helicobacter Pylori, nothing serious and can be treated, I'll see my doctor once results are back and take it from there.
> 
> Hope all masters, mistresses and slaves are well.


I first read that as you have helicopter :yikes:

We are "ok" the feliway seems to be making a difference or could be the hoglets as Riley is scared of them  they are in my bedroom and he won't go in there unless I go with him 

Sending some positive vibes your way for roman and his scope xx


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I first read that as you have helicopter :yikes:
> 
> We are "ok" the feliway seems to be making a difference or could be the hoglets as Riley is scared of them  they are in my bedroom and he won't go in there unless I go with him
> 
> Sending some positive vibes your way for roman and his scope xx


:lol: It nearly did say helicopter, mobile and it's auto correct 

Pleased to hear Riley is ok  oh bless him being scared of the hoglets  fingers crossed he continues to be ok xx

Thank you xx


----------



## buffie

Sarah , so pleased to read that your endoscopy went well .......honestly the things we do for our furbabes testing the procedures just to be sure it wont hurt  Good to see that it is something that can be treated even if I have no idea what it is  (I aint googling it)
So pleased that Roman is still feeling well and that there is a slight improvement in his offerings.


----------



## Forester

Sarah, its great news that your endoscopy went well. I hope that you have now fully recovered from the procedure and that the meds will soon have you feeling fighting fit.

I'm so pleased to hear that Roman's poo is a little better. The diary is a great idea. It allows you to see progress / patterns which you could easily miss otherwise.

Nicola, I'm glad that Riley is " o k ". If Riley is scared of the hoglets I expect that you are missing your early morning alarm call from him.

Sending " o k " vibes to Meeko, Blue and all other IBD kitties. Dylan is still on daily pred. and vomit free. 

P S I've been googling helicobacter :nonod: and wonder whether Dylan might have it.


----------



## LDK1

sarahecp said:


> have been diagnosed with Helicobacter Pylori.





Forester said:


> P S I've been googling helicobacter :nonod: and wonder whether Dylan might have it.


Hi all,

I keep a regular eye on this thread and find the info. and progress so useful - though it's all far too much for my poor pea-sized brain to remember at times! 

Anyway, just thought I'd mention something about H.Pylori. I asked the vet about this as I had problems with Rosie vomiting on and off for months, (she more recently had developed chronic diarrhea and colitis but that seems to have improved). The vomiting is still an issue.

Having had blood/poo/urine tests, ultrasound and xray (I am waiting for a T.Foetus test result), I'm supposed to be conducting a diet trial with Z/D, but it's proving difficult to get her fully onto it.

The vet said H.Pylori was quite uncommon in cats and was found more in dogs. I actually had it myself a couple of years back - it's very common in humans and is what causes stomach ulcers - which is why I asked the vet about it as I felt very sick in the mornings too.

So having dismissed that as a possibility I am quite taken aback to read that Roman has been diagnosed with it. May I ask how that diagnosis was reached?

Many thanks.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Sarah , so pleased to read that your endoscopy went well .......honestly the things we do for our furbabes testing the procedures just to be sure it wont hurt  Good to see that it is something that can be treated even if I have no idea what it is  (I aint googling it)
> So pleased that Roman is still feeling well and that there is a slight improvement in his offerings.


Thanks 

Tried and tested, the things we do for them   I'm happy so he can have it done now 

Roman woke me at 4:30 this morning being sick, a little bit of food and liquid, hasn't bothered him, still his usual self 



Forester said:


> Sarah, its great news that your endoscopy went well. I hope that you have now fully recovered from the procedure and that the meds will soon have you feeling fighting fit.
> 
> I'm so pleased to hear that Roman's poo is a little better. The diary is a great idea. It allows you to see progress / patterns which you could easily miss otherwise.
> 
> Nicola, I'm glad that Riley is " o k ". If Riley is scared of the hoglets I expect that you are missing your early morning alarm call from him.
> 
> Sending " o k " vibes to Meeko, Blue and all other IBD kitties. Dylan is still on daily pred. and vomit free.
> 
> P S I've been googling helicobacter :nonod: and wonder whether Dylan might have it.


Thanks 

Glad Dylan is still doing well.

Naughty, you know the rules, No Googling :nono:  



LDK1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I keep a regular eye on this thread and find the info. and progress so useful - though it's all far too much for my poor pea-sized brain to remember at times!
> 
> Anyway, just thought I'd mention something about H.Pylori. I asked the vet about this as I had problems with Rosie vomiting on and off for months, (she more recently had developed chronic diarrhea and colitis but that seems to have improved). The vomiting is still an issue.
> 
> Having had blood/poo/urine tests, ultrasound and xray (I am waiting for a T.Foetus test result), I'm supposed to be conducting a diet trial with Z/D, but it's proving difficult to get her fully onto it.
> 
> The vet said H.Pylori was quite uncommon in cats and was found more in dogs. I actually had it myself a couple of years back - it's very common in humans and is what causes stomach ulcers - which is why I asked the vet about it as I felt very sick in the mornings too.
> 
> So having dismissed that as a possibility I am quite taken aback to read that Roman has been diagnosed with it. May I ask how that diagnosis was reached?
> 
> Many thanks.


It's me that's been diagnosed with H Pylori not Roman  We don't have a diagnosis for Roman, he has his scope next Monday.


----------



## vivien

Hi Sarah. Just caught up with how things are going with Roman. I am glad your endoscopy went well. Sorry to hear he was sick again in the night. But I am glad his poo seems to be better 

Viv xx


----------



## nicolaa123

LDK1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I keep a regular eye on this thread and find the info. and progress so useful - though it's all far too much for my poor pea-sized brain to remember at times!
> 
> Anyway, just thought I'd mention something about H.Pylori. I asked the vet about this as I had problems with Rosie vomiting on and off for months, (she more recently had developed chronic diarrhea and colitis but that seems to have improved). The vomiting is still an issue.
> 
> Having had blood/poo/urine tests, ultrasound and xray (I am waiting for a T.Foetus test result), I'm supposed to be conducting a diet trial with Z/D, but it's proving difficult to get her fully onto it.
> 
> The vet said H.Pylori was quite uncommon in cats and was found more in dogs. I actually had it myself a couple of years back - it's very common in humans and is what causes stomach ulcers - which is why I asked the vet about it as I felt very sick in the mornings too.
> 
> So having dismissed that as a possibility I am quite taken aback to read that Roman has been diagnosed with it. May I ask how that diagnosis was reached?
> 
> Many thanks.


From memory I'm sure Riley had Campylobacter in his biopsy results, will have to have look back on the notes.

Good luck with the z/d are you giving the wet or dry? The wet is like plastic!! Has your get suggested any meds to support?


----------



## LDK1

sarahecp said:


> It's me that's been diagnosed with H Pylori not Roman


Oooops!!! How did I miss that! Sorry!  Get well soon.


----------



## LDK1

nicolaa123 said:


> From memory I'm sure Riley had Campylobacter in his biopsy results, will have to have look back on the notes.
> 
> Good luck with the z/d are you giving the wet or dry? The wet is like plastic!! Has your get suggested any meds to support?


Hi Nicola,

Thanks.

I have been trying to get Rosie onto the wet, with a little dry in an overnight feeder. Gruesome looking, isn't it?

I got her up to 50/50 with Grau chicken and rice, but when trying to get up to 75/25 percent she vomits. After two weeks I'm no closer to starting this trial so I'm going to have to try to get her 100% onto the Z/D dry - failing that I will probably have to try the 'novel protein' approach for the trial.

She had a low dose course of Ranatidine a few months ago, plus I started giving her an overnight feed at 3:00am to try to reduce any excess acid. It seemed to calm things down for a short while, then she started the vomiting again despite that.

At the moment she is not on any medication and her colitis seems to have calmed down now - though her toilet habits are not back to normal yet.

I really need to get this trial done so I can rule food intolerences in or out as practically everything bar endoscope has been checked.


----------



## nicolaa123

LDK1 said:


> Hi Nicola,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I have been trying to get Rosie onto the wet, with a little dry in an overnight feeder. Gruesome looking, isn't it?
> 
> I got her up to 50/50 with Grau chicken and rice, but when trying to get up to 75/25 percent she vomits. After two weeks I'm no closer to starting this trial so I'm going to have to try to get her 100% onto the Z/D dry - failing that I will probably have to try the 'novel protein' approach for the trial.
> 
> She had a low dose course of Ranatidine a few months ago, plus I started giving her an overnight feed at 3:00am to try to reduce any excess acid. It seemed to calm things down for a short while, then she started the vomiting again despite that.
> 
> At the moment she is not on any medication and her colitis seems to have calmed down now - though her toilet habits are not back to normal yet.
> 
> I really need to get this trial done so I can rule food intolerences in or out as practically everything bar endoscope has been checked.


Sorry for late reply..

The z/d is yuck you could try the d/d being venison much more palatable. However a food trial is really the only way to know if this is a food sensitivity issue or more.

Will she eat raw at all?


----------



## LDK1

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry for late reply..
> 
> The z/d is yuck *you could try the d/d being venison much more palatable*. However a food trial is really the only way to know if this is a food sensitivity issue or more.
> 
> Will she eat raw at all?


Great, I'll bear the d/d in mind.

The only raw she will eat is chicken, but no chicken offal of any kind and not with Felini unfortunately. She will eat a little bit of other meats if they are well-cooked.


----------



## nicolaa123

LDK1 said:


> Great, I'll bear the d/d in mind.
> 
> The only raw she will eat is chicken, but no chicken offal of any kind and not with Felini unfortunately. She will eat a little bit of other meats if they are well-cooked.


Mine won't eat raw either, currently doing ok on kangaroo, but I don't hold out much hope of finding another food, as he reacts to most things


----------



## LDK1

nicolaa123 said:


> Mine won't eat raw either, currently doing ok on kangaroo, but I don't hold out much hope of finding another food, as he reacts to most things


It's very worrying to have such limited food choices, though fortunate that you have at least found something that helps.


----------



## nicolaa123

LDK1 said:


> It's very worrying to have such limited food choices, though fortunate that you have at least found something that helps.


I had to give up worrying a while ago otherwise I will be in one of buffies white coats!! Now I just have to think what ever happens we will deal with it


----------



## sarahecp

I took Roman to Davies this morning ready for his endoscopy tomorrow, feels really strange him not being here 

The nurse said Patricia will call me tomorrow after the procedure to update me and depending on what time they do it and how he's feeling depends on whether he can come home tomorrow or it will be Tuesday. 

Hope all masters, mistresses and slaves are all doing ok  xx


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> I took Roman to Davies this morning ready for his endoscopy tomorrow, feels really strange him not being here
> 
> The nurse said Patricia will call me tomorrow after the procedure to update me and depending on what time they do it and how he's feeling depends on whether he can come home tomorrow or it will be Tuesday.
> 
> Hope all masters, mistresses and slaves are all doing ok  xx


Oooh Sarah, I didn't realise that you were taking him so early. I was thinking about you as I logged on and thought that you would probably be on your way now.

He will be absolutely fine. Please try not to worry.

I am planning to ring my vet tomorrow to update on Dylan's progress with the prednisolone. He was sick on Friday but he had made rather a pig of himself. I hadn't realised quite how much I'd given him in a short period till it reappeared on the carpet. : I weighed him a couple of days ago. He's back to 5.2kg.

"O K" vibes to all.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I took Roman to Davies this morning ready for his endoscopy tomorrow, feels really strange him not being here
> 
> The nurse said Patricia will call me tomorrow after the procedure to update me and depending on what time they do it and how he's feeling depends on whether he can come home tomorrow or it will be Tuesday.
> 
> Hope all masters, mistresses and slaves are all doing ok  xx


It is a horrible feeling when you leave them behind  but by this time tomorrow it will all be over and hopefully Roman will be home and happy.
Everything crossed here that if they find anything at all it will be easily controlled.xx



Forester said:


> Oooh Sarah, I didn't realise that you were taking him so early. I was thinking about you as I logged on and thought that you would probably be on your way now.
> 
> He will be absolutely fine. Please try not to worry.
> 
> I am planning to ring my vet tomorrow to update on Dylan's progress with the prednisolone. He was sick on Friday but he had made rather a pig of himself. I hadn't realised quite how much I'd given him in a short period till it reappeared on the carpet. : I weighed him a couple of days ago. He's back to 5.2kg.
> 
> "O K" vibes to all.


Good news that Dylans weight has gone up again  not so good that he was sick though, but maybe the reason was an over full belly 
Good luck when you speak to your vet tomorrow.

Meeko has been sick a couple of times over the last few days and is still being picky with his food.
He seems okay in himself although did have a couple of "quiet days",I have learned over the months not to worry too much unless they go on for a while .
Today he is a lot brighter but still being a PITA with his food,I'm sure if I fed him dry he would empty the bowl,but I daren't give in unless I have no choice .


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Oooh Sarah, I didn't realise that you were taking him so early. I was thinking about you as I logged on and thought that you would probably be on your way now.
> 
> He will be absolutely fine. Please try not to worry.
> 
> I am planning to ring my vet tomorrow to update on Dylan's progress with the prednisolone. He was sick on Friday but he had made rather a pig of himself. I hadn't realised quite how much I'd given him in a short period till it reappeared on the carpet. : I weighed him a couple of days ago. He's back to 5.2kg.
> 
> "O K" vibes to all.


Patricia suggested I take Roman in this morning rather than late this afternoon because having to starve him, not fair on him with Frank and Seb.

I am missing him  I think Seb is too 

Things haven't been great in the poo department, he's been very runny again over the last couple of days, yesterday he went 5 times and he had a runny one again this morning.

I honestly don't think the RC SC is doing him much good.

Hopefully tomorrow we'll be a step further to knowing what the problem is.

Really sorry to hear Dylan has been sick  hope he's ok now and not sick any more. Seb often makes a pig of himself and eats very fast and brings it all up as fast as it went down 

Let us know what your vets says tomorrow xx



buffie said:


> It is a horrible feeling when you leave them behind  but by this time tomorrow it will all be over and hopefully Roman will be home and happy.
> Everything crossed here that if they find anything at all it will be easily controlled.xx
> 
> Good news that Dylans weight has gone up again  not so good that he was sick though, but maybe the reason was an over full belly
> Good luck when you speak to your vet tomorrow.
> 
> Meeko has been sick a couple of times over the last few days and is still being picky with his food.
> He seems okay in himself although did have a couple of "quiet days",I have learned over the months not to worry too much unless they go on for a while .
> Today he is a lot brighter but still being a PITA with his food,I'm sure if I fed him dry he would empty the bowl,but I daren't give in unless I have no choice .


It is horrible  I keep expecting him to come into the room shouting at me  The reminder alarm went off on my phone earlier to give him his Bricanyl and I cried, silly woman 

Really sorry to hear Meeko was sick  hope he's ok now. I do feel for you about the fussiness, I really wish I didn't give the dry, as now Frank (who has never liked dry) and Seb expect it all the time now, arrhghhhh what have I done.

xx


----------



## nicolaa123

Buffie, I think Sarah needs one of your famous "white jackets" :

When Riley went for his overnight stay I found wine helped me  

Loads of positive vibes being sent your way and to roman and to seb and to frankie. Don't worry about the dry it can be changed again, bit tough love and wet will be back try not to think long term right now just short term. Bet roman is having a lovely time, I bet he will be fussed rotten!

Sorry to hear Dylan and Meeko have been sick, must be something in the water Riley has had the runs a couple of times...coming out in sympathy!

Let's hope very soon we are all writing about ok days !






Oh and I'm also on poo watch with badger (trust me eh) he has hair in his poo  so I've got to check it each time to make sure no hair in it!

What is is about me an animals bums!

Good news strictly is on!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Buffie, I think Sarah needs one of your famous "white jackets" :
> 
> When Riley went for his overnight stay I found wine helped me
> 
> Loads of positive vibes being sent your way and to roman and to seb and to frankie. Don't worry about the dry it can be changed again, bit tough love and wet will be back try not to think long term right now just short term. Bet roman is having a lovely time, I bet he will be fussed rotten!
> 
> Sorry to hear Dylan and Meeko have been sick, must be something in the water Riley has had the runs a couple of times...coming out in sympathy!
> 
> Let's hope very soon we are all writing about ok days !
> 
> Oh and I'm also on poo watch with badger (trust me eh) he has hair in his poo  so I've got to check it each time to make sure no hair in it!
> 
> What is is about me an animals bums!
> 
> *Good news strictly is on*!


Clicked like for your post,not for "strictly" :arf: cant be doing with that dance stuff at all


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Buffie, I think Sarah needs one of your famous "white jackets" :
> 
> When Riley went for his overnight stay I found wine helped me
> 
> Loads of positive vibes being sent your way and to roman and to seb and to frankie. Don't worry about the dry it can be changed again, bit tough love and wet will be back try not to think long term right now just short term. Bet roman is having a lovely time, I bet he will be fussed rotten!
> 
> Sorry to hear Dylan and Meeko have been sick, must be something in the water Riley has had the runs a couple of times...coming out in sympathy!
> 
> Let's hope very soon we are all writing about ok days !
> 
> Oh and I'm also on poo watch with badger (trust me eh) he has hair in his poo  so I've got to check it each time to make sure no hair in it!
> 
> What is is about me an animals bums!
> 
> Good news strictly is on!


Buffie's 'white jackets' :lol: I think I do  

I can't drink with the meds I'm taking  I have chocolate as a substitute 

Thanks Nicola  I do need to think short term because if I don't I defiantly will need one of Buffie's white jackets :lol: I'm bet Ro is having a relaxing time 

Sorry to hear Riley has been runny, must be something in the water, hope he's ok now.

You and bums  how has Badger got hair in his poo 

xx


----------



## buffie

Special delivery for you Sarah


----------



## nicolaa123

buffie said:


> Clicked like for your post,not for "strictly" :arf: cant be doing with that dance stuff at all


I would love to be able to dance like they do..



sarahecp said:


> Buffie's 'white jackets' :lol: I think I do
> 
> I can't drink with the meds I'm taking  I have chocolate as a substitute
> 
> Thanks Nicola  I do need to think short term because if I don't I defiantly will need one of Buffie's white jackets :lol: I'm bet Ro is having a relaxing time
> 
> Sorry to hear Riley has been runny, must be something in the water, hope he's ok now.
> 
> You and bums  how has Badger got hair in his poo
> 
> xx


No idea really, possibly could be from either licking his sister or could even have been from the fleece blanket I got him, I did notice him suckling it so turned it over to the none fleece side, so could be fibres..


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Clicked like for your post,not for "strictly" :arf: cant be doing with that dance stuff at all


Me neither


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Special delivery for you Sarah


:lol: :lol:

Thank you 



nicolaa123 said:


> I would love to be able to dance like they do..
> 
> No idea really, possibly could be from either licking his sister or could even have been from the fleece blanket I got him, I did notice him suckling it so turned it over to the none fleece side, so could be fibres..


I would too, I'm a bit too clumsy though 

Sounds like it could be the fleece blanket, but you never know. How are they both doing? Is Riley still scared of them?


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Me neither


:frown2: :frown2:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> :frown2: :frown2:


I love the dancing, it's all the other stuff I'm not keen on


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> Thank you
> 
> I would too, I'm a bit too clumsy though
> 
> Sounds like it could be the fleece blanket, but you never know. How are they both doing? Is Riley still scared of them?


Foxy is doing really well, pretty much weaned and eating by herself with a few milk top ups..he is dragging his paws in that respect..


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Foxy is doing really well, pretty much weaned and eating by herself with a few milk top ups..he is dragging his paws in that respect..


And do you think the Feliway is working?


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> And do you think the Feliway is working?


I'm still getting early morning wake up calls but he settles much more easily when I say to him no it's sleep time, plus my elbows arnt being chewed!


----------



## sarahecp

Had a call from Patricia at Davies, Roman is ok and recovering well  he can come home  so will collect him when I finish work at 3:30.

They've taken some biopsies and the results will be back by Thursday. She said she will talk to me properly and in more depth when I go in later, she wants to put him on a high dose of Prednisolone for 14 days and see how he goes. 

Will update later when we're back home, probably be later later as we'll be leaving there at rush hour.

I'm so glad my little man is ok xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Had a call from Patricia at Davies, Roman is ok and recovering well  he can come home  so will collect him when I finish work at 3:30.
> 
> They've taken some biopsies and the results will be back by Thursday. She said she will talk to me properly and in more depth when I go in later, she wants to put him on a high dose of Prednisolone for 14 days and see how he goes.
> 
> Will update later when we're back home, probably be later later as we'll be leaving there at rush hour.
> 
> I'm so glad my little man is ok xx


Good news he is ok!

Remember notepad and pen!!


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Good news he is ok!
> 
> Remember notepad and pen!!


Thanks  x

It's already in my bag!


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> Had a call from Patricia at Davies, Roman is ok and recovering well  he can come home  so will collect him when I finish work at 3:30.
> 
> They've taken some biopsies and the results will be back by Thursday. She said she will talk to me properly and in more depth when I go in later, she wants to put him on a high dose of Prednisolone for 14 days and see how he goes.
> 
> Will update later when we're back home, probably be later later as we'll be leaving there at rush hour.
> 
> I'm so glad my little man is ok xx


I'm so glad that you've got that over and that Roman will soon be home. I'm sure that you will feel an immense relief and that Frank and Seb will be pleased to see him back .

Hopefully you will already have some answers to what is going on. I will be looking out for your update later.

I'm sorry to hear that Meeko has been sick and a little subdued recently.

Dylan was sick again last night but I'm sure ( or am I just making excuses again) that it was because I had given him too much to eat in a short time. I am going to make a resolution *not *to give in when he shouts at me for " extra's ". Its hard as he does it when I'm trying to go to sleep at night and he can shout very loudly. I have been unable to get hold of my vet today but have left a message for when she gets in on Wednesday.

Nicola , I'm pleased that Riley has stopped chewing your elbows  though sorry that you have been on poo watch for both him and Badger. Sending " firming" vibes for Riley, not really sure what sort of vibes are appropriate for Badger.

love to all IBD masters, mistresses and slaves


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Had a call from Patricia at Davies, Roman is ok and recovering well  he can come home  so will collect him when I finish work at 3:30.
> 
> They've taken some biopsies and the results will be back by Thursday. She said she will talk to me properly and in more depth when I go in later, she wants to put him on a high dose of Prednisolone for 14 days and see how he goes.
> 
> Will update later when we're back home, probably be later later as we'll be leaving there at rush hour.
> 
> I'm so glad my little man is ok xx


Great news  you must be so relieved that he is coming home.
Paws crossed all the results are good and give you something to work with to make your boy well again.


----------



## sarahecp

We're home! 

Ro was really pleased to see me, think he missed me as much as I missed him, he rolled over in his carrier for me to give him tummy rubs 

Patricia didn't say much more than she said on the phone really. 

With the endoscopy no gross abnormalities were seen, multiple biopsies were taken from stomach and duodenum. 

We need to wait for the biopsy results, he has the 2 week course of Pred', 5mg twice a day, she wants me to call her when he has finished the course to update on his progress and she wants him exclusively on the RC SC and nothing else for 6 weeks. 

She suspects IBD if he responds well to the steroids, but not something she recommends long term but we will look further into this after the results are back and the trial with steroids and food.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> We're home!
> 
> Ro was really pleased to see me, think he missed me as much as I missed him, he rolled over in his carrier for me to give him tummy rubs
> 
> Patricia didn't say much more than she said on the phone really.
> 
> With the endoscopy no gross abnormalities were seen, multiple biopsies were taken from stomach and duodenum.
> 
> We need to wait for the biopsy results, he has the 2 week course of Pred', 5mg twice a day, she wants me to call her when he has finished the course to update on his progress and she wants him exclusively on the RC SC and nothing else for 6 weeks.
> 
> She suspects IBD if he responds well to the steroids, but not something she recommends long term but we will look further into this after the results are back and the trial with steroids and food.


Be interesting what comes back with the biopsy results. Pred is a starting point and can really help symptoms improve, hopefully roman will respond positively to them and at least he can have a break from the runs!

Pleased to hear he is happy to be home with his mum x


----------



## sarahecp

Apparently, he was very vocal and shouts rather loud :lol: and was a grumpy boy this morning   

That's my boy!


----------



## Forester

Fingers and paws crossed here that the prednisolone does the trick for Roman.

Dylan has been sick again this evening.  He's currently on 2.5 mg pred. once daily. When I last spoke to my vet she had suggested doubling the dose though I'm going to wait to speak to her before I do this. I don't know whether she meant to give him 2.5 mg twice daily or 5mg once daily.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Be interesting what comes back with the biopsy results. Pred is a starting point and can really help symptoms improve, hopefully roman will respond positively to them and at least he can have a break from the runs!
> 
> Pleased to hear he is happy to be home with his mum x





Forester said:


> Fingers and paws crossed here that the prednisolone does the trick for Roman.
> 
> Dylan has been sick again this evening.  He's currently on 2.5 mg pred. once daily. When I last spoke to my vet she had suggested doubling the dose though I'm going to wait to speak to her before I do this. I don't know whether she meant to give him 2.5 mg twice daily or 5mg once daily.


Thanks both  xx

Roman was on a low dose of the Pred for his asthma, sure it was 2.5mg twice a day and there was no change to his poo then that's why they've given the higher dose to see if he responds to that, he started them tonight. He's not had a poo yet since we've been home, but I'm sure it won't be long, he's eaten quite a bit so making up for being starved 

Oh no! Poor Dylan  sorry to hear he's been sick again. I think you're best to speak to your vet about the dose, just in case. I hope it's just a little set back and not sick anymore.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> We're home!
> 
> Ro was really pleased to see me, think he missed me as much as I missed him, he rolled over in his carrier for me to give him tummy rubs
> 
> Patricia didn't say much more than she said on the phone really.
> 
> With the endoscopy no gross abnormalities were seen, multiple biopsies were taken from stomach and duodenum.
> 
> We need to wait for the biopsy results, he has the 2 week course of Pred', 5mg twice a day, she wants me to call her when he has finished the course to update on his progress and she wants him exclusively on the RC SC and nothing else for 6 weeks.
> 
> She suspects IBD if he responds well to the steroids, but not something she recommends long term but we will look further into this after the results are back and the trial with steroids and food.


Sounds as though Roman has survived his "trip out" better than his mum did .Good news that there was nothing nasty found hopefully the steroids will help with his poo problem,then maybe a diet change will sort his poo problems permanently.
Whats the betting that you sleep well tonight  xx


----------



## vivien

Hi Sarah. So glad Roman is home again with you.  I hope the Prednisolon sorts Romans tummy out. You must be so relieved that he is home with you.  

Viv xx


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Fingers and paws crossed here that the prednisolone does the trick for Roman.
> 
> Dylan has been sick again this evening.  He's currently on 2.5 mg pred. once daily. When I last spoke to my vet she had suggested doubling the dose though I'm going to wait to speak to her before I do this. I don't know whether she meant to give him 2.5 mg twice daily or 5mg once daily.


Sorry to see that Dylan has been sick again . 
Does being sick bother him,I ask because Meeko doesn't seem to be in the least bothered by it.Obviously he doesn't like the "being sick" bit but once that's out the way he is fine.
He is still on hunger strike  I have to confess I gave in and gave him a small amount of dry which he damn near inhaled ,so at least I feel it is more of a "don't want wet" rather than "don't want to eat" situation


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Sounds as though Roman has survived his "trip out" better than his mum did .Good news that there was nothing nasty found hopefully the steroids will help with his poo problem,then maybe a diet change will sort his poo problems permanently.
> Whats the betting that you sleep well tonight  xx





vivien said:


> Hi Sarah. So glad Roman is home again with you.  I hope the Prednisolon sorts Romans tummy out. You must be so relieved that he is home with you.
> 
> Viv xx


Thanks both  xx. I'm so relieved he's home 

Fingers crossed we're on the right road now. Oh we've had 2 poo's  one was soft but a lot firmer than it has been in a while and one was runny.

I bet I do sleep well tonight too  

xx



buffie said:


> Sorry to see that Dylan has been sick again .
> Does being sick bother him,I ask because Meeko doesn't seem to be in the least bothered by it.Obviously he doesn't like the "being sick" bit but once that's out the way he is fine.
> He is still on hunger strike  I have to confess I gave in and gave him a small amount of dry which he damn near inhaled ,so at least I feel it is more of a "don't want wet" rather than "don't want to eat" situation


Bad Meeko  they're all addicts, the lot of them  

Hope he stops the hunger strike soon and starts eating the wet again.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sorry to hear that Dylan is being sick again  how much is he eating? If Riley is sick (not very often but does happen) I reduce his feed for a few feeds to help his tummy. Hopefully he settles again..

Ah meeko at least you aren't suffering Riley's torture.. Not only is there dry food in the house, but there is other food too that he can not have in a month of Sundays! Poor boy he can smell the other food, but he had been really good, although he has been quite windy of late!! His toilet woes are better, but I'm sure they will stabilise once I'm back to work and his routine is back to normal..

Hopefully you will see better tray results for roman very soon!! Nothing like a good poo!




On a non cat front, foxy had her first proper non milk poo and can now fully curl up!! I'm syringing badger a/d with formula 5 times a day and it's amazing just after today I can see the difference in him, he is spiking up so hopefully he will now start to thrive like she is..


----------



## Forester

buffie said:


> Sorry to see that Dylan has been sick again .
> Does being sick bother him,I ask because Meeko doesn't seem to be in the least bothered by it.Obviously he doesn't like the "being sick" bit but once that's out the way he is fine.
> He is still on hunger strike  I have to confess I gave in and gave him a small amount of dry which he damn near inhaled ,so at least I feel it is more of a "don't want wet" rather than "don't want to eat" situation


Sorry to hear that Meeko is on hunger strike. Could it be that Meeko has " gone off wet " because he might be associating it with being sick ?. If I'm sick I don't tend to fancy whatever has made me sick for a while. I know that you say that being sick doesn't bother him but the suggestion I've made was made to me when Dylan refused to eat after his reaction to the kangaroo, and it felt logical at the time.

Most of the time Dylan does not seem bothered when he is sick. He will vomit, pause for 3 seconds and then carry on with his game. I've noticed that he does seem a bit more fussy about his food though at the times when he is being sick more often. He never used to be fussy about food. He would eat *anything *

Its good that you have the dry in reserve for Meeko. At least you can be confident that you have something which he will eat if times are desperate. I have found that there is nothing more distressing than having a cat which refuses to eat absolutely everything offered.

:blushing::blushing: I've just realised that I wanted to reply to Nicola and Sarah but have not started to multi-quote. I'm falling asleep now,( so know that I'll make a mess of anything I try to type ) so I'll reply once I'm fully awake.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear that Dylan is being sick again  how much is he eating? If Riley is sick (not very often but does happen) I reduce his feed for a few feeds to help his tummy. Hopefully he settles again..
> 
> Ah meeko at least you aren't suffering Riley's torture.. Not only is there dry food in the house, but there is other food too that he can not have in a month of Sundays! Poor boy he can smell the other food, but he had been really good, although he has been quite windy of late!! His toilet woes are better, but I'm sure they will stabilise once I'm back to work and his routine is back to normal..
> 
> Hopefully you will see better tray results for roman very soon!! Nothing like a good poo!
> 
> On a non cat front, foxy had her first proper non milk poo and can now fully curl up!! I'm syringing badger a/d with formula 5 times a day and it's amazing just after today I can see the difference in him, he is spiking up so hopefully he will now start to thrive like she is..


Glad to hear Riley's poo is better 

I can't wait for Roman to have a good normal poo  it's been a long long time now. He was runny again his morning, poor boy was straining 

Please to hear the hoglets are doing well 



Forester said:


> Sorry to hear that Meeko is on hunger strike. Could it be that Meeko has " gone off wet " because he might be associating it with being sick ?. If I'm sick I don't tend to fancy whatever has made me sick for a while. I know that you say that being sick doesn't bother him but the suggestion I've made was made to me when Dylan refused to eat after his reaction to the kangaroo, and it felt logical at the time.
> 
> Most of the time Dylan does not seem bothered when he is sick. He will vomit, pause for 3 seconds and then carry on with his game. I've noticed that he does seem a bit more fussy about his food though at the times when he is being sick more often. He never used to be fussy about food. He would eat *anything *
> 
> Its good that you have the dry in reserve for Meeko. At least you can be confident that you have something which he will eat if times are desperate. I have found that there is nothing more distressing than having a cat which refuses to eat absolutely everything offered.
> 
> :blushing::blushing: I've just realised that I wanted to reply to Nicola and Sarah but have not started to multi-quote. I'm falling asleep now,( so know that I'll make a mess of anything I try to type ) so I'll reply once I'm fully awake.


Not surprised you were falling asleep   though I was wide awake at 3am not feeling great, the meds I'm on make me feel sick  only a couple more days of taking them.

Roman wasn't too enthusiastic about eating the dry this morning  was looking around for his Felix, but ate it when he realised there was no Felix coming


----------



## koekemakranka

I have been following this thread with great interest. Thank goodness for PF! My Girly (6 years old) was diagnosed yesterday with IBD in conjunction with a mild case of pancreatitis. In mid August she started going off her food and vomiting. I took her to the vet who did an ultrasound and found thickening in the intestines. The assumption was simple enteritis which was treated with ABs. She seemed to improve, but wasn't eating with her normal gusto. On the weekend she stopped eating and started vomiting on Sunday night. She was at the vet first thing yesterday morning. Her bloods came back with a high reading of ALT and something else. She is still in hospital on a drip until tomorrow and a specialist is coming in to look at her. Until this, she has always enjoyed very good health. Reading through this thread, I see we have a long road ahead of us.  The food issue is going to be very hard as she is quite fussy. She likes Fancy Feast and eats boiled/dry roast chicken but does not like any other sachet food, so I am going to be at my wits end in finding something suitable for her.


----------



## buffie

koekemakranka said:


> I have been following this thread with great interest. Thank goodness for PF! My Girly (6 years old) was diagnosed yesterday with IBD in conjunction with a mild case of pancreatitis. In mid August she started going off her food and vomiting. I took her to the vet who did an ultrasound and found thickening in the intestines. The assumption was simple enteritis which was treated with ABs. She seemed to improve, but wasn't eating with her normal gusto. On the weekend she stopped eating and started vomiting on Sunday night. She was at the vet first thing yesterday morning. Her bloods came back with a high reading of ALT and something else. She is still in hospital on a drip until tomorrow and a specialist is coming in to look at her. Until this, she has always enjoyed very good health. Reading through this thread, I see we have a long road ahead of us.  The food issue is going to be very hard as she is quite fussy. She likes Fancy Feast and eats boiled/dry roast chicken but does not like any other sachet food, so I am going to be at my wits end in finding something suitable for her.


So sorry to read about Girly  .
Nicola will be along at some point to pass on her thoughts/ideas etc she has a much better head for remembering details than I have.
You say that she had an ultra sound scan,did the vet suggest doing an endoscopy and taking pinch biopsies of her intestines also has she had a specific blood test for Pancreatitis ,(I think from memory it is a PLI test )as that is the only way to rule it either in or out.
As you say with a fussy eater it will be so much more difficult to find a trigger (if there is one) I have been battling with Meeko for 2 years trying firstly to get him off dry and then on to a novel protein in the vague hope of finding out if he is reacting to specific food.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask and if all you need is support we do that too  Hope you get some answers soon and Girly is soon on the mend.


----------



## buffie

Forester said:


> Sorry to hear that Meeko is on hunger strike. Could it be that Meeko has " gone off wet " because he might be associating it with being sick ?. If I'm sick I don't tend to fancy whatever has made me sick for a while. I know that you say that being sick doesn't bother him but the suggestion I've made was made to me when Dylan refused to eat after his reaction to the kangaroo, and it felt logical at the time.
> 
> Most of the time Dylan does not seem bothered when he is sick. He will vomit, pause for 3 seconds and then carry on with his game. I've noticed that he does seem a bit more fussy about his food though at the times when he is being sick more often. He never used to be fussy about food. He would eat *anything *
> 
> Its good that you have the dry in reserve for Meeko. At least you can be confident that you have something which he will eat if times are desperate. I have found that there is nothing more distressing than having a cat which refuses to eat absolutely everything offered.
> 
> :blushing::blushing: I've just realised that I wanted to reply to Nicola and Sarah but have not started to multi-quote. I'm falling asleep now,( so know that I'll make a mess of anything I try to type ) so I'll reply once I'm fully awake.


I did wonder about the connection between food and vomiting but I don't think its very likely as this "hunger strike" thing happens every so often and then he is fine again.I hope it isn't connected or we are well and truly bu**ered 
He has always been a fussy sod with food so this is nothing new ,just a worry that because of his last episode of urinary problems dry food is not ideal.
Hope Dylan is okay x


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Glad to hear Riley's poo is better
> 
> I can't wait for Roman to have a good normal poo  it's been a long long time now. He was runny again his morning, poor boy was straining
> 
> Please to hear the hoglets are doing well
> 
> Not surprised you were falling asleep   though I was wide awake at 3am not feeling great, the meds I'm on make me feel sick  only a couple more days of taking them.
> 
> Roman wasn't too enthusiastic about eating the dry this morning  was looking around for his Felix, but ate it when he realised there was no Felix coming


Sorry to read that you are not feeling great ,just what you need with Roman and his problems.
Sending "nice poo" vibes to Roman x


----------



## nicolaa123

koekemakranka said:


> I have been following this thread with great interest. Thank goodness for PF! My Girly (6 years old) was diagnosed yesterday with IBD in conjunction with a mild case of pancreatitis. In mid August she started going off her food and vomiting. I took her to the vet who did an ultrasound and found thickening in the intestines. The assumption was simple enteritis which was treated with ABs. She seemed to improve, but wasn't eating with her normal gusto. On the weekend she stopped eating and started vomiting on Sunday night. She was at the vet first thing yesterday morning. Her bloods came back with a high reading of ALT and something else. She is still in hospital on a drip until tomorrow and a specialist is coming in to look at her. Until this, she has always enjoyed very good health. Reading through this thread, I see we have a long road ahead of us.  The food issue is going to be very hard as she is quite fussy. She likes Fancy Feast and eats boiled/dry roast chicken but does not like any other sachet food, so I am going to be at my wits end in finding something suitable for her.


Sorry to read about girly.. It's not uncommon for the pancreas or the liver to have issues with ibd, my own cat had very high alt and ast levels which were bought back under control. Was she very dehydrated? I presume that's why she is on a drip? I would ask for the scope so they can have a good look inside and take some biopsy's. Have they tested her poo to rule out parasites?

With regard to food, if she has ibd food may not be the "cure" I wouldn't look for that but look for something that causes less of a problem, that way you won't drive yourself bonkers! To start you will need to feed either a novel protein or something like z/d, I'm not sure what the equivalent would be in s.a ?

How has her weight been?


----------



## koekemakranka

buffie said:


> So sorry to read about Girly  .
> Nicola will be along at some point to pass on her thoughts/ideas etc she has a much better head for remembering details than I have.
> You say that she had an ultra sound scan,did the vet suggest doing an endoscopy and taking pinch biopsies of her intestines also has she had a specific blood test for Pancreatitis ,(I think from memory it is a PLI test )as that is the only way to rule it either in or out.
> As you say with a fussy eater it will be so much more difficult to find a trigger (if there is one) I have been battling with Meeko for 2 years trying firstly to get him off dry and then on to a novel protein in the vague hope of finding out if he is reacting to specific food.
> If you have any specific questions feel free to ask and if all you need is support we do that too  Hope you get some answers soon and Girly is soon on the mend.


Thanks for this. I believe the specialist coming tomorrow will do further tests to confirm and make recommendations for endoscopy/biopsies if required.


----------



## koekemakranka

nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to read about girly.. It's not uncommon for the pancreas or the liver to have issues with ibd, my own cat had very high alt and ast levels which were bought back under control. Was she very dehydrated? I presume that's why she is on a drip? I would ask for the scope so they can have a good look inside and take some biopsy's. Have they tested her poo to rule out parasites?
> 
> With regard to food, if she has ibd food may not be the "cure" I wouldn't look for that but look for something that causes less of a problem, that way you won't drive yourself bonkers! To start you will need to feed either a novel protein or something like z/d, I'm not sure what the equivalent would be in s.a ?
> 
> How has her weight been?


They seem to be more worried about the possible ibd doagnosis and said the pancreatitis is not severe. We can get the various z/d and w/d foods here (at a huge price) which I will try - IF madam deigns to eat it. 
She hasn't lost much weight and was not dehydrated according to the vet (she has been drinking water). 
I think I got her to the vet quite early, because I had a feeling all was not right with her due to her inappetance, so have been watching her like a hawk ever since she fell ill in August.


----------



## nicolaa123

What was the reason for the drip?


----------



## Forester

O K Folks, I'm awake ! ( Though not necessarily " on the ball" ) I'm now suffering from the problem that there has been so much posted which I would like to comment on that I'd be here till 3am tomorrow composing my post. I'm sure that no-one wants War and Peace so I will try to cut it to the bare minimum.



nicolaa123 said:


> Sorry to hear that Dylan is being sick again  how much is he eating? If Riley is sick (not very often but does happen) I reduce his feed for a few feeds to help his tummy. Hopefully he settles again..


Nicola , He's eating about 150g boiled rabbit plus a pouch of Sensitivity Control per 24 hours split into approx. 6 meals. He has always had a problem with vomiting if he eats more than about 50g at a time or if he goes more than about 6 hours between meals. My current problem is that since he's been on the pred. he regularly shouts at me between meals to try to elicit more food.He gives the impression that he's absolutely starving. I'm not really sure how much he should be having on the current regime so I have been letting him have extra. On the S C he had 6 meals of 50g. I worry that if he goes without enough food at one meal it might make him more likely to vomit the next lot.



sarahecp said:


> Glad to hear Riley's poo is better
> 
> I can't wait for Roman to have a good normal poo  it's been a long long time now. He was runny again his morning, poor boy was straining
> 
> Please to hear the hoglets are doing well
> 
> Not surprised you were falling asleep   though I was wide awake at 3am not feeling great, the meds I'm on make me feel sick  only a couple more days of taking them.
> 
> Roman wasn't too enthusiastic about eating the dry this morning  was looking around for his Felix, but ate it when he realised there was no Felix coming


Sarah , How is Roman's poo today and how does he seem in himself?

Hopefully his biopsy results tomorrow will be clear which will give you some peace of mind. Its good that he's eating the SC when nothing else is forthcoming.



buffie said:


> I did wonder about the connection between food and vomiting but I don't think its very likely as this "hunger strike" thing happens every so often and then he is fine again.I hope it isn't connected or we are well and truly bu**ered
> He has always been a fussy sod with food so this is nothing new ,just a worry that because of his last episode of urinary problems dry food is not ideal.
> Hope Dylan is okay x


I'd temporarily ( 3am ? ) forgotten Meeko's urinary problems. I have everything crossed that he will soon be happy with the wet again. Sending " wet" vibes.

Welcome Koekemakranka. I'm sorry that Girly is suspected of having IBD. She is however very lucky that you have identified the problem so early on. I haven't really got any advice but wanted to wish you and Girly luck for her scope tomorrow. I'm sorry that I have been unable to quote you. I tried but PF wouldn't co-operate. Maybe the post was too long.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Sorry to read that you are not feeling great ,just what you need with Roman and his problems.
> Sending "nice poo" vibes to Roman x


Thanks Buffie  xx feeling better than I was thanks.

We need more 'nice poo' vibes for Roman, 3 runny poos so far today.

How's Mr M today?



koekemakranka said:


> I have been following this thread with great interest. Thank goodness for PF! My Girly (6 years old) was diagnosed yesterday with IBD in conjunction with a mild case of pancreatitis. In mid August she started going off her food and vomiting. I took her to the vet who did an ultrasound and found thickening in the intestines. The assumption was simple enteritis which was treated with ABs. She seemed to improve, but wasn't eating with her normal gusto. On the weekend she stopped eating and started vomiting on Sunday night. She was at the vet first thing yesterday morning. Her bloods came back with a high reading of ALT and something else. She is still in hospital on a drip until tomorrow and a specialist is coming in to look at her. Until this, she has always enjoyed very good health. Reading through this thread, I see we have a long road ahead of us.  The food issue is going to be very hard as she is quite fussy. She likes Fancy Feast and eats boiled/dry roast chicken but does not like any other sachet food, so I am going to be at my wits end in finding something suitable for her.


Welcome  you've come to the right place for help, advice and support, I don't know what I'd do if it wasn't for these lovely ladies 

I'm sorry to hear about Girly, I hope all goes well with the further investigations. Let us know what the vet says tomorrow.

I feel for you with the fussiness, really hope you can find a food that she will eat and that agrees with her. Good luck and keep us updated xx



Forester said:


> O K Folks, I'm awake ! ( Though not necessarily " on the ball" ) I'm now suffering from the problem that there has been so much posted which I would like to comment on that I'd be here till 3am tomorrow composing my post. I'm sure that no-one wants War and Peace so I will try to cut it to the bare minimum.
> 
> Nicola , He's eating about 150g boiled rabbit plus a pouch of Sensitivity Control per 24 hours split into approx. 6 meals. He has always had a problem with vomiting if he eats more than about 50g at a time or if he goes more than about 6 hours between meals. My current problem is that since he's been on the pred. he regularly shouts at me between meals to try to elicit more food.He gives the impression that he's absolutely starving. I'm not really sure how much he should be having on the current regime so I have been letting him have extra. On the S C he had 6 meals of 50g. I worry that if he goes without enough food at one meal it might make him more likely to vomit the next lot.
> 
> Sarah , How is Roman's poo today and how does he seem in himself?
> 
> Hopefully his biopsy results tomorrow will be clear which will give you some peace of mind. Its good that he's eating the SC when nothing else is forthcoming.
> 
> I'd temporarily ( 3am ? ) forgotten Meeko's urinary problems. I have everything crossed that he will soon be happy with the wet again. Sending " wet" vibes.
> 
> Welcome Koekemakranka. I'm sorry that Girly is suspected of having IBD. She is however very lucky that you have identified the problem so early on. I haven't really got any advice but wanted to wish you and Girly luck for her scope tomorrow. I'm sorry that I have been unable to quote you. I tried but PF wouldn't co-operate. Maybe the post was too long.


Roman's poo isn't great, 3 runny poos today. He's still his usual self, though he has been very clingy and wanting lots of fuss and cuddles, I think it's because he was left 

He's not eaten much today, I do think he's missing the Felix, I keep thinking tough love and it's for his own good, but don't know how long he's going to eat it for, he's sure to go off it now I've just ordered a ton of it from ZooPlus  I had to give Frank some Sheba slyly when Roman was asleep upstairs, he's not too keen on dry food, and don't want to turn him into an addict.

The results should be back on Thursday.

Noticed earlier that one of his back paws underneath has been shaved  I can understand why his legs were shaved again but his paw 

How's Dylan doing today?

xx


----------



## koekemakranka

Holding all paws and thumbs for further improvements for Roman, Dylan and Meeko.
Good-ish news re Girly. The specialist confirmed that it is neither pancreatitis nor IBD. However, the confirmation is that she has fatty liver disease (hepatic lipidosis).  Good news is that she will recover from this with the right meds and food. She will be able to come home the afternoon but has to go back for checkup tomorrow. 
Vet says she is not eating well and has had to be force fed. I dread having to go down that path, so I hope she feels well enough to eat on her own. I will check the site to find specific advice on this disease, but does anyone have any advice on this condition? 
Thanks for all the support thus far. I am so grateful to the members here on PF for their ongoing excellent and knowledgeable advice :001_wub:


----------



## buffie

koekemakranka said:


> Holding all paws and thumbs for further improvements for Roman, Dylan and Meeko.
> Good-ish news re Girly. The specialist confirmed that it is neither pancreatitis nor IBD. However, the confirmation is that she has fatty liver disease (hepatic lipidosis).  Good news is that she will recover from this with the right meds and food. She will be able to come home the afternoon but has to go back for checkup tomorrow.
> Vet says she is not eating well and has had to be force fed. I dread having to go down that path, so I hope she feels well enough to eat on her own. I will check the site to find specific advice on this disease, but does anyone have any advice on this condition?
> Thanks for all the support thus far. I am so grateful to the members here on PF for their ongoing excellent and knowledgeable advice :001_wub:


Thanks for the update,I have absolutely no knowledge of Hepatic Lipidosis so really sorry cant help at all.
Hopefully once she is home she will feel more like eating,not sure whether using any appetite stimulants can be used with her condition ,.but if they can it might be worth asking your vet for Mirtazapine, or something similar it works wonders with Meeko when he is not eating.
Please let us know how Girly gets on,hope she is back to her happy self soon.


----------



## Forester

koekemakranka said:


> Holding all paws and thumbs for further improvements for Roman, Dylan and Meeko.
> Good-ish news re Girly. The specialist confirmed that it is neither pancreatitis nor IBD. However, the confirmation is that she has fatty liver disease (hepatic lipidosis).  Good news is that she will recover from this with the right meds and food. She will be able to come home the afternoon but has to go back for checkup tomorrow.
> Vet says she is not eating well and has had to be force fed. I dread having to go down that path, so I hope she feels well enough to eat on her own. I will check the site to find specific advice on this disease, but does anyone have any advice on this condition?
> Thanks for all the support thus far. I am so grateful to the members here on PF for their ongoing excellent and knowledgeable advice :001_wub:


Its good that you've got an early diagnosis and that Girly will recover with the right meds and food.

I don't have experience of hepatic lipidosis either but I believe that Girly is lucky that you acted so quickly when she went off her food. I understand that early intervention is vital. Well done , you.

Girly might be more inclined to eat once she is home. I have previously had a CKD cat who was hospitalised and had to be syringe fed by the vets because he refused to eat. I was in a real panic when they sent him home as I was not confident that I could syringe feed him. Luckily, once he was home, I was able to get him to eat .The vet told me that they have found that most cats are more inclined to eat once home.

I agree with buffie about enquiring about an appetite stimulant for her.

Please let us know how she progresses. I send all of my best " eating " vibes and will be thinking of you and Girly in the oncoming days.


----------



## sarahecp

koekemakranka said:


> Holding all paws and thumbs for further improvements for Roman, Dylan and Meeko.
> Good-ish news re Girly. The specialist confirmed that it is neither pancreatitis nor IBD. However, the confirmation is that she has fatty liver disease (hepatic lipidosis).  Good news is that she will recover from this with the right meds and food. She will be able to come home the afternoon but has to go back for checkup tomorrow.
> Vet says she is not eating well and has had to be force fed. I dread having to go down that path, so I hope she feels well enough to eat on her own. I will check the site to find specific advice on this disease, but does anyone have any advice on this condition?
> Thanks for all the support thus far. I am so grateful to the members here on PF for their ongoing excellent and knowledgeable advice :001_wub:


Thanks for updating us on Girly. I've never heard of this before sorry I have no advice. I'm pleased to hear this can be treated 

Sorry to hear Girly had to be force fed  like the others have said hopefully she will eat once she is home. Hope all goes well at her check up tomorrow, let us know how she gets on and keep us updated on her process.

xx


----------



## Forester

I'm hoping that this post will find Roman's poo firming, Meeko off hunger strike and Riley firm and less windy.

Sarah I also hope that you are now feeling back to normal, I meant to ask yesterday but I accidently removed my enquiry whilst editing the post.

I've heard back from my vet and we're doubling Dylan's pred. for 2 weeks to see if it brings any improvement. I made the mistake of voicing my concern over possible lymphoma which prompted her to suggest full thickness biopsy once again . I must try harder to keep my concerns to myself in future.


----------



## buffie

Evening campers , Hope all are doing well,Meeko is still being a PITA and I have given in a little on the dry food  .
I have to be honest the slight worry of him stopping eating made me experiment with the dry and as suspected ,he scoffed it all .Oddly though he seems more interested in eating some wet food after having a munch on the dry 
Forester I hope that the increase in the pred makes a difference to Dylan and yes sometimes we do need to keep our thoughts to ourselves 
Also hoping that things are better in the litter tray for Roman and Riley and Blue


----------



## sarahecp

Evening all 

Feeling a lot better thanks Sylv 

Hope the double dose of the Pred helps Dylan  how is he? Has he been sick anymore? 

Roman's poo is still the same  but only been twice so far, I always think the less he goes the better. If the Pred does help him how long should it be before it starts to work? It's day 3 but he started them Monday evening. 

He's eaten a bit more today but still looking around for the Felix. Had to do another sneaky wet food feed for Frank and Seb today. 


Buffie, sorry to hear Meeko is still being a bad boy. But glad he was happy to eat some wet food, I think they just like to try us out  hope the wet food munching continues and the striking stops. 


I hope Riley and Blue are doing o k


----------



## Forester

Morning all,

Sarah, I'm glad that you're feeling better now. Hopefully your meds will do the trick.

I'm sorry that Roman's poo hasn't improved much yet although personally I think that a reduction in frequency is an improvement . I would imagine that it would indicate a less rapid transit through the gut  I'm sorry but I can't say how long the steroids took to have any effect on Dylan as his pattern of vomiting seems to have become quite irregular since the endoscopy at the end of July. He now seems to go a couple of weeks before an episode of 1, 2 or maybe 3 vomits then another gap of around 2 weeks. He went 16 days when he started the pred but I don't know whether he would have gone those 16 days anyway. IYKWIM. On reflection , earlier in the year the gaps between " episodes" were more like 7 days. Trying to think logically, if the pred. is reducing inflammation it must take a short time to take effect. The inflammation can't disappear instantly. I hope that this seems logical to you. My logic can be a little wayward at times.Fingers, and everything else crossed that Roman will soon show an obvious improvement. 

Its good if you have the opportunity to give Frank and Seb some wet food without Roman knowing about it.

buffie, How is Meeko's appetite for wet food now?. Perhaps a couple of pieces of dry on top of the wet might be enough to get him going, though I'm sure that you've probably already tried that. They certainly do have a way of knowing how to get exactly what they want out of us.

koekemakranka, If you're still around, how's Girly?

Nicola, bluecordelia. Hope that all is o k with Riley and Blue. and that you've both been getting plenty of sleep , undisturbed by elbow chewing or loud music 
Will foxy and badger be returning to the hospital at the weekend?. Riley is going to miss them :001_rolleyes:

love to all including anyone I've unintentionally omitted.


----------



## nicolaa123

Hi all!

Slyv, with increase of the pred dose, did they talk about adding in ab's also to really hit the inflammation? Same with roman also. With Riley he got mega dose of both to try and control his symptoms, the pred didn't really help but the higher dose of the ab's did.

Hopefully meeko is back onto wet food after a brief period of dry..

Badger and foxy have just been dropped back to the hospital. Despite several poo samples being clear he isn't putting on weight, he is fine in himself but something is going on, so will be checked with the vet, possibly some thing wrong with digestion or the bowl or inflammation in the bowel ( only me eh!!). 

Foxy is doing her well and is feeding herself, her favourite flavour is the goat! She is solid tho, she is my little chunky!

Riley is still having issues, I'm not overly concerned, as soon as I'm back to work I'm sure he will be ok again. It's a shame I take time off work for him!! I'm sure he will be happy the hogs have gone he was not impressed foxy had goat and he couldn't get any!!


----------



## sarahecp

Afternoon all,

Roman is still the same, I'm sure it's the food 

Sylv, I understand your logic   

Nicola, what AB's was Riley on? Maybe it's worth mentioning when I speak to Patricia. She left me a voicemail this morning to say she'd chased the lab 
for the results and will call when she has them, so I'll ask then. 

Sorry Riley is still having issues, hopefully he'll be back to his usual self when you're back to work or now the hogs have gone. 

Glad Foxy is doing well  Hope Badger will be ok.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Afternoon all,
> 
> Roman is still the same, I'm sure it's the food
> 
> Sylv, I understand your logic
> 
> Nicola, what AB's was Riley on? Maybe it's worth mentioning when I speak to Patricia. She left me a voicemail this morning to say she'd chased the lab
> for the results and will call when she has them, so I'll ask then.
> 
> Sorry Riley is still having issues, hopefully he'll be back to his usual self when you're back to work or now the hogs have gone.
> 
> Glad Foxy is doing well  Hope Badger will be ok.


Be best to wait until you get results, they will have a plan I'm sure.

Sarah I've been thinking (dangerous I know!) the speed in which roman is producing is very fast, makes me think he needs a bit of added fibre in the diet to bulk thinks up a bit for a slower journey. Thinks like pumpkin or butternut squash, as he is currently on dry I'm sure there is a powder you can use to sprinkle on the biscuits. I would ask Patricia about this as the speed in which it's coming out and the frequency to me is a bit of a concern. Or he is like Riley in the respect that if a reaction will be seen it will be quick!!

I'm home now and Riley came off the bed looking for the hogs! Can't win with this cat!!


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Be best to wait until you get results, they will have a plan I'm sure.
> 
> Sarah I've been thinking (dangerous I know!) the speed in which roman is producing is very fast, makes me think he needs a bit of added fibre in the diet to bulk thinks up a bit for a slower journey. Thinks like pumpkin or butternut squash, as he is currently on dry I'm sure there is a powder you can use to sprinkle on the biscuits. I would ask Patricia about this as the speed in which it's coming out and the frequency to me is a bit of a concern. Or he is like Riley in the respect that if a reaction will be seen it will be quick!!
> 
> I'm home now and Riley came off the bed looking for the hogs! Can't win with this cat!!


It does seem to be pretty fast, it's concerning me too. Last night he went, then again 10 mins later. It was 6 poos yesterday. This really is the worst he's been since he's had these issues, and gone on for longer than he has done before with it being runny.

First time I gave him pumpkin he loved it, then gave it to him again he turned his nose up 

I'll ask Patricia when she calls.

Sounds like Riley loved the hogs really :001_wub:


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Slyv, with increase of the pred dose, did they talk about adding in ab's also to really hit the inflammation? Same with roman also. With Riley he got mega dose of both to try and control his symptoms, the pred didn't really help but the higher dose of the ab's did.
> 
> Hopefully meeko is back onto wet food after a brief period of dry..
> 
> Badger and foxy have just been dropped back to the hospital. Despite several poo samples being clear he isn't putting on weight, he is fine in himself but something is going on, so will be checked with the vet, possibly some thing wrong with digestion or the bowl or inflammation in the bowel ( only me eh!!).
> 
> Foxy is doing her well and is feeding herself, her favourite flavour is the goat! She is solid tho, she is my little chunky!
> 
> Riley is still having issues, I'm not overly concerned, as soon as I'm back to work I'm sure he will be ok again. It's a shame I take time off work for him!! I'm sure he will be happy the hogs have gone he was not impressed foxy had goat and he couldn't get any!!


Nicola, My vet's plan is to try the ab's *after *the pred. if we have no or incomplete improvement. At least that is how I understood the plan. She doesn't like to change more than one thing at a time as we then don't know which change has worked/ made things worse. I was severely reprimanded early on in Dylan's treatment for making too many changes.:frown2:

How could you give goat to Foxy when poor Riley is not allowed any. You could at least have given her something which he doesn't like.

Fingers crossed that a return to a normal routine will help Riley. I'm sending vibes for both him and Badger.



sarahecp said:


> Afternoon all,
> 
> Roman is still the same, I'm sure it's the food
> 
> Sylv, I understand your logic
> 
> Nicola, what AB's was Riley on? Maybe it's worth mentioning when I speak to Patricia. She left me a voicemail this morning to say she'd chased the lab
> for the results and will call when she has them, so I'll ask then.
> 
> Sorry Riley is still having issues, hopefully he'll be back to his usual self when you're back to work or now the hogs have gone.
> 
> Glad Foxy is doing well  Hope Badger will be ok.


Sarah, Has Roman's poo actually got worse since he's been on the dry?.I hope not , but if it is I would be inclined to mention ( loudly ! ) this to Patricia when you speak to her. Hoping that the lab results will be fine.

buffie, How is Meeko's appetite now, any improvement?

Dylan hasn't been sick since Monday so I'm hoping that we will have another extended vomit free run. He had his first dose of 5mg pred. last night and has slept most of the day although he wakes and dashes into the kitchen if his food cupboard door is opened.

Sending positive vibes to Blue as well as anyone else that I've missed.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Nicola, My vet's plan is to try the ab's *after *the pred. if we have no or incomplete improvement. At least that is how I understood the plan. She doesn't like to change more than one thing at a time as we then don't know which change has worked/ made things worse. I was severely reprimanded early on in Dylan's treatment for making too many changes.:frown2:
> 
> How could you give goat to Foxy when poor Riley is not allowed any. You could at least have given her something which he doesn't like.
> 
> Fingers crossed that a return to a normal routine will help Riley. I'm sending vibes for both him and Badger.
> 
> Sarah, Has Roman's poo actually got worse since he's been on the dry?.I hope not , but if it is I would be inclined to mention ( loudly ! ) this to Patricia when you speak to her. Hoping that the lab results will be fine.
> 
> buffie, How is Meeko's appetite now, any improvement?
> 
> Dylan hasn't been sick since Monday so I'm hoping that we will have another extended vomit free run. He had his first dose of 5mg pred. last night and has slept most of the day although he wakes and dashes into the kitchen if his food cupboard door is opened.
> 
> Sending positive vibes to Blue as well as anyone else that I've missed.


My thinking it is worse since he's been on this food, But then it wasn't great before, but like I mentioned before I don't think this food is helping, really don't know what to do, he's done nothing but shout about the house and has had 2 poos since I've been trying to reply. I will defiantly mention this to Patricia when I speak to her.

Glad Dylan hasnt been sick anymore, hope it continues.


----------



## sarahecp

Forgot to say, his poos were runny again


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Slyv, with increase of the pred dose, did they talk about adding in ab's also to really hit the inflammation? Same with roman also. With Riley he got mega dose of both to try and control his symptoms, the pred didn't really help but the higher dose of the ab's did.
> 
> Hopefully meeko is back onto wet food after a brief period of dry..
> 
> Badger and foxy have just been dropped back to the hospital. Despite several poo samples being clear he isn't putting on weight, he is fine in himself but something is going on, so will be checked with the vet, possibly some thing wrong with digestion or the bowl or inflammation in the bowel ( only me eh!!).
> 
> Foxy is doing her well and is feeding herself, her favourite flavour is the goat! She is solid tho, she is my little chunky!
> 
> Riley is still having issues, I'm not overly concerned, as soon as I'm back to work I'm sure he will be ok again. It's a shame I take time off work for him!! I'm sure he will be happy the hogs have gone he was not impressed foxy had goat and he couldn't get any!!


Sorry to read that Riley is still having issues,paws crossed that once his life returns to normal all will settle down again.
Hoping too that Badger is okay and starts to thrive just like his friend Foxy



sarahecp said:


> Afternoon all,
> 
> Roman is still the same, I'm sure it's the food
> 
> Sylv, I understand your logic
> 
> Nicola, what AB's was Riley on? Maybe it's worth mentioning when I speak to Patricia. She left me a voicemail this morning to say she'd chased the lab
> for the results and will call when she has them, so I'll ask then.
> 
> Sorry Riley is still having issues, hopefully he'll be back to his usual self when you're back to work or now the hogs have gone.
> 
> Glad Foxy is doing well  Hope Badger will be ok.


Poor Roman,it does sound as though the food is not helping at best, and is possibly adding to his problems .This is just one of the many problems connected to IBD,what might help,what makes it worse,and how the hell do we find out 
I hope you get the results back soon and they will help to point you in the right direction.



Forester said:


> Nicola, My vet's plan is to try the ab's *after *the pred. if we have no or incomplete improvement. At least that is how I understood the plan. She doesn't like to change more than one thing at a time as we then don't know which change has worked/ made things worse. I was severely reprimanded early on in Dylan's treatment for making too many changes.:frown2:
> 
> I
> How could you give goat to Foxy when poor Riley is not allowed any. You could at least have given her something which he doesn't like.
> 
> Fingers crossed that a return to a normal routine will help Riley. I'm sending vibes for both him and Badger.
> 
> Sarah, Has Roman's poo actually got worse since he's been on the dry?.I hope not , but if it is I would be inclined to mention ( loudly ! ) this to Patricia when you speak to her. Hoping that the lab results will be fine.
> 
> buffie, How is Meeko's appetite now, any improvement?
> 
> Dylan hasn't been sick since Monday so I'm hoping that we will have another extended vomit free run. He had his first dose of 5mg pred. last night and has slept most of the day although he wakes and dashes into the kitchen if his food cupboard door is opened.
> 
> Sending positive vibes to Blue as well as anyone else that I've missed.


I can see why your vet wants to just change one thing at a time otherwise you will find it difficult to work out the effect each one is having(if any).Good to read that Dylan hasn't been sick for a few days paws crossed this carries on.

Meeko is eating a bit better but still not as much wet food as he needs,some days more than others,but the odd thing is,I weighed him yesterday and if my scales are to be believed he has put on 200g.Not a lot but odd when he seems not to be eating enough


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Poor Roman,it does sound as though the food is not helping at best, and is possibly adding to his problems .This is just one of the many problems connected to IBD,what might help,what makes it worse,and how the hell do we find out
> I hope you get the results back soon and they will help to point you in the right direction.
> 
> Meeko is eating a bit better but still not as much wet food as he needs,some days more than others,but the odd thing is,I weighed him yesterday and if my scales are to be believed he has put on 200g.Not a lot but odd when he seems not to be eating enough


Hopefully I'll get some answers tomorrow, I'm still keeping the Poo Diary, need to put it back in my bag in case Patricia calls while I'm at work tomorrow, will discuss with her what's been happening. I know it's going to be a long road.

Pleased to hear Meeko is eating a bit better, sending eat more wet food vibes to Mr M and good news he's put on weight


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Hopefully I'll get some answers tomorrow, I'm still keeping the Poo Diary, need to put it back in my bag in case Patricia calls while I'm at work tomorrow, will discuss with her what's been happening. I know it's going to be a long road.
> 
> Pleased to hear Meeko is eating a bit better, sending eat more wet food vibes to Mr M and good news he's put on weight


Would love to be a "fly on the wall" if you have the "poo discussion" at work .A one sided discussion about the workings of a cats bum is much worse than hearing the whole conversation  :lol: :lol:

Meeko would say thank you for the food vibes but he is currently sleeping with his legs in the air,very undignified


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Would love to be a "fly on the wall" if you have the "poo discussion" at work .A one sided discussion about the workings of a cats bum is much worse than hearing the whole conversation  :lol: :lol:
> 
> Meeko would say thank you for the food vibes but he is currently sleeping with his legs in the air,very undignified


  :lol: :lol:

I'll let you know how the poo and bum discussion goes  

Roman sleeps in a similar position  and most of the time undignified


----------



## sarahecp

Patricia phoned, I took the call in a meeting room   

Biopsies are back. There were inflammatories in the cells so could point to IBD and sensitivity. 

I told her how he's been this week with the frequency in poo and my thoughts on the food, she said to stop the RC SC and try him with either the Hills z/d or RC Hypoallergenic dry. I asked about allergy to rice as the RC SC is duck and rice, she said most cats aren't allergic or intolerant to rice. 

We're to continue with the steroids. She said she isn't overly concerned as he isn't losing any weight in fact looking through his notes he has gained 600g. 

She asked me to call her next week if I have any concerns, but she'll be on holiday the week after and we'll speak when she's back to update. If no change she will prescribe a course of Chlorambucil. 

I'm on lunch and at home now, we have a clean litter tray, though he did go only the once this morning and it was the same runny but nothing overnight. 

Popping to the vets shortly to get some food. 

Hope everyone ok today  xx

ETA just rang vets they've ordered the food will be in Monday pm. Will try Amazon see if they have it and deliver tomorrow. 

I had 2 bags of 3.5kg of the RC SC delivered from ZooPlus yesterday, not opened, anyone want some? I probably shouldn't have ordered so much but was cheaper than the vets.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Patricia phoned, I took the call in a meeting room
> 
> Biopsies are back. There were inflammatories in the cells so could point to IBD and sensitivity.
> 
> I told her how he's been this week with the frequency in poo and my thoughts on the food, she said to stop the RC SC and try him with either the Hills z/d or RC Hypoallergenic dry. I asked about allergy to rice as the RC SC is duck and rice, she said most cats aren't allergic or intolerant to rice.
> 
> We're to continue with the steroids. She said she isn't overly concerned as he isn't losing any weight in fact looking through his notes he has gained 600g.
> 
> She asked me to call her next week if I have any concerns, but she'll be on holiday the week after and we'll speak when she's back to update. If no change she will prescribe a course of Chlorambucil.
> 
> I'm on lunch and at home now, we have a clean litter tray, though he did go only the once this morning and it was the same runny but nothing overnight.
> 
> Popping to the vets shortly to get some food.
> 
> Hope everyone ok today  xx
> 
> ETA just rang vets they've ordered the food will be in Monday pm. Will try Amazon see if they have it and deliver tomorrow.
> 
> I had 2 bags of 3.5kg of the RC SC delivered from ZooPlus yesterday, not opened, anyone want some? I probably shouldn't have ordered so much but was cheaper than the vets.


Thanks for the update,good news about the results,at least there doesn't seem to be any unexpected nasties there.
Not sure I agree with your vet,pretty sure some cats can be and are sensitive to rice, any form of grain infact.
Cant remember if you mentioned whether Roman showed any reaction to chicken or fish,if not would he eat some boiled chicken or fish until you get the Z/D or the RC hypo.
Meeko has never had the Chlorambucil so cant comment on that at all ,but fairly sure Riley has 
Sorry cant help with the food Meeko isn't allowed dry(well shouldn't be)
could you not return it to the Zoo or would that cost too much in postage


----------



## Forester

Its great to know that Roman's biopsies have not revealed any nasties 

Royal Canin ,as well as Hills :lol:, offer a money back guarantee through the retailer. Details are here Palatability Guarantee | Royal Canin Terms and Conditions . Hopefully the zoo will co-operate.

Apologies for quick post, have to go out, will be back later.


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Thanks for the update,good news about the results,at least there doesn't seem to be any unexpected nasties there.
> Not sure I agree with your vet,pretty sure some cats can be and are sensitive to rice, any form of grain infact.
> Cant remember if you mentioned whether Roman showed any reaction to chicken or fish,if not would he eat some boiled chicken or fish until you get the Z/D or the RC hypo.
> Meeko has never had the Chlorambucil so cant comment on that at all ,but fairly sure Riley has
> Sorry cant help with the food Meeko isn't allowed dry(well shouldn't be)
> could you not return it to the Zoo or would that cost too much in postage


Good news no nasties 

I don't agree with her either, for reasons you've stated, in fact I don't know what I think of her to be honest with you and don't know what to expect from her, a miracle probably. something else she mentioned made me think they don't actually know what the problem is, she asked today when he was last wormed, told her August and every 3 months, her reply was so he can't have worms then  I informed her I inspect his poo and never seen any worms. Then before she said about the other prescriptions foods she said maybe put him back on the Felix. His poo was better when he was on it.

Whenever he's had really watery dire rear I've always given him boiled cod, my own vet recommended cod when he had a bout of dire rear when he was a kitten, he said it was better than the prescription foods and chicken as some cats are chicken intolerant. He's not too keen on cooked chicken but when these have been eaten they've not made him any worse.

When he started the watery dire rear a few weeks back before the investigations started I put him on boiled cod and pro Kolin, after 3-4 days on that there was no change so took him to vets, then referral to Davies. Explained this to Patricia and that's when she said to avoid any chicken and fish.

Roman has always preferred fish flavoured foods so I've always bought the fish Felix, and after reading your post on another thread about the issues fish can cause, alarm bells started ringing, suspected IBD and l he has asthma.

I'll drop the Zoo an email, see how much it would be to return.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Its great to know that Roman's biopsies have not revealed any nasties
> 
> Royal Canin ,as well as Hills :lol:, offer a money back guarantee through the retailer. Details are here Palatability Guarantee | Royal Canin Terms and Conditions . Hopefully the zoo will co-operate.
> 
> Apologies for quick post, have to go out, will be back later.


No worries 

I know RC and Hills do this but it's whether it will cost loads to return, I'll see what the zoo says.


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Good news no nasties
> 
> I don't agree with her either, for reasons you've stated, in *fact I don't know what I think of her to be honest with you and don't know what to expect from her, a miracle probably. something else she mentioned made me think they don't actually know what the problem is*, she asked today when he was last wormed, told her August and every 3 months, her reply was so he can't have worms then  I informed her I inspect his poo and never seen any worms. Then before she said about the other prescriptions foods she said maybe put him back on the Felix. His poo was better when he was on it.
> 
> Whenever he's had really watery dire rear I've always given him boiled cod, my own vet recommended cod when he had a bout of dire rear when he was a kitten, he said it was better than the prescription foods and chicken as some cats are chicken intolerant. He's not too keen on cooked chicken but when these have been eaten they've not made him any worse.
> 
> When he started the watery dire rear a few weeks back before the investigations started I put him on boiled cod and pro Kolin, after 3-4 days on that there was no change so took him to vets, then referral to Davies. Explained this to Patricia and that's when she said to avoid any chicken and fish.
> 
> Roman has always preferred fish flavoured foods so I've always bought the fish Felix, and after reading your post on another thread about the issues fish can cause, alarm bells started ringing, suspected IBD and l he has asthma.
> 
> I'll drop the Zoo an email, see how much it would be to return.


Fun you should say that,when Meeko was referred to the "Dick Vet" I was left not only with more questions than answers but also,because it is a teaching hospital I felt he had been used very much like a guinea pig 
They treated him well and were very thorough but I really don't think it was of any use in finding out any more than we already knew.
Don't know what to suggest for you to try now with Roman,sometimes I am grateful that Meeko has the vomiting version of IBD not the "other end".
Unfortunately when a cat is sensitive to something in its diet,it seems that it takes very little change to cause a major upset.


----------



## bluecordelia

Hi everyone...been on hols at home so I have avoided all my usual vices. 

Blue has been fine. If anything she is going less ie every other day. As soon as we have a hot day food consumption goes down. They are so used to water added to their food that its left if none there.

The boys seem to be being a bit naughty for you at the mo and I am glad girly isn't ib. I met up with a nursing friend this week who's sister had 2 Maine coons. One of her boys had a short bowel and mega colon. He had 2lots of surgery but had massive bowel adhesions involving his kidneys. Vet had to pts. I was so upset as I read around the breed and only found stuff about them having issues with bowels on 1website in America. I haven't got anymore info but this was a young boy.

Sorry but i think its important as i just knew about the breed issue with thickening of heart muscle and hips.


Please all cats have firm ones and eat the good stuff. X


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Fun you should say that,when Meeko was referred to the "Dick Vet" I was left not only with more questions than answers but also,because it is a teaching hospital I felt he had been used very much like a guinea pig
> They treated him well and were very thorough but I really don't think it was of any use in finding out any more than we already knew.
> Don't know what to suggest for you to try now with Roman,sometimes I am grateful that Meeko has the vomiting version of IBD not the "other end".
> Unfortunately when a cat is sensitive to something in its diet,it seems that it takes very little change to cause a major upset.


I know it's the case of trial and error now but I don't think we're any further on 

We're at the vets on Wednesday for Roman's booster, I'll have a chat with my own vet then.


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone...been on hols at home so I have avoided all my usual vices.
> 
> Blue has been fine. If anything she is going less ie every other day. As soon as we have a hot day food consumption goes down. They are so used to water added to their food that its left if none there.
> 
> The boys seem to be being a bit naughty for you at the mo and I am glad girly isn't ib. I met up with a nursing friend this week who's sister had 2 Maine coons. One of her boys had a short bowel and mega colon. He had 2lots of surgery but had massive bowel adhesions involving his kidneys. Vet had to pts. I was so upset as I read around the breed and only found stuff about them having issues with bowels on 1website in America. I haven't got anymore info but this was a young boy.
> 
> Sorry but i think its important as i just knew about the breed issue with thickening of heart muscle and hips.
> 
> Please all cats have firm ones and eat the good stuff. X


Wondered where you were,hope you had a nice break away from everyday stuff and glad to read that Blue is doing well.
As for the mega colon I've only read about one cat who had it,it was actually are PF member and was a moggy if I remember correctly.


----------



## sarahecp

bluecordelia said:


> Hi everyone...been on hols at home so I have avoided all my usual vices.
> 
> Blue has been fine. If anything she is going less ie every other day. As soon as we have a hot day food consumption goes down. They are so used to water added to their food that its left if none there.
> 
> The boys seem to be being a bit naughty for you at the mo and I am glad girly isn't ib. I met up with a nursing friend this week who's sister had 2 Maine coons. One of her boys had a short bowel and mega colon. He had 2lots of surgery but had massive bowel adhesions involving his kidneys. Vet had to pts. I was so upset as I read around the breed and only found stuff about them having issues with bowels on 1website in America. I haven't got anymore info but this was a young boy.
> 
> Sorry but i think its important as i just knew about the breed issue with thickening of heart muscle and hips.
> 
> Please all cats have firm ones and eat the good stuff. X


I was wondering where you were too  hope you had a nice break 

Pleased to hear Blue has been doing well  hope it continues.

I've not heard this is an issue in Coonies, same as you knew of HCM and hip dysplasia, didn't read anything when researching the breed.


----------



## sarahecp

I don't want to get too excited and tempt fate but ....... I've come home to a poo the size of a small hazelnut and it was quite firm   not much food has been eaten today though.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Patricia phoned, I took the call in a meeting room
> 
> Biopsies are back. There were inflammatories in the cells so could point to IBD and sensitivity.
> 
> I told her how he's been this week with the frequency in poo and my thoughts on the food, she said to stop the RC SC and try him with either the Hills z/d or RC Hypoallergenic dry. I asked about allergy to rice as the RC SC is duck and rice, she said most cats aren't allergic or intolerant to rice.
> 
> We're to continue with the steroids. She said she isn't overly concerned as he isn't losing any weight in fact looking through his notes he has gained 600g.
> 
> She asked me to call her next week if I have any concerns, but she'll be on holiday the week after and we'll speak when she's back to update. If no change she will prescribe a course of Chlorambucil.
> 
> I'm on lunch and at home now, we have a clean litter tray, though he did go only the once this morning and it was the same runny but nothing overnight.
> 
> Popping to the vets shortly to get some food.
> 
> Hope everyone ok today  xx
> 
> ETA just rang vets they've ordered the food will be in Monday pm. Will try Amazon see if they have it and deliver tomorrow.
> 
> I had 2 bags of 3.5kg of the RC SC delivered from ZooPlus yesterday, not opened, anyone want some? I probably shouldn't have ordered so much but was cheaper than the vets.


With everything else being ruled out I think you are looking at ibd. Now we need to look at this from another angle, can you make a list of everything he has ever eaten and what sort of reaction he had, this way we can start making a bad list, a maybe list and a safe list, then we look for foods that contain nothing from the bad list. I'm sorry you may have to remind me again was there any reaction to the goat or the kangaroo? If it was a case of just being fussy but didn't cause any explosions in the tray, it would be time for a bit of tough love to get him just eating this as a novel protein.

As his weight isn't an issue you can be a bit tougher with regards to the food! We need to get at least one food to get him stable, all this swapping around will not be helping his tummy (I'm not having a go by saying that) interesting enough Riley would only ever eat fish flavours before his problems!

I think I would also limit and slightly under feed him for a period to see if it's the amount of food going through his system is causing an issue. How many times do you feed him or is he free fed? How much do you put down?

Can you list good, maybe and safe foods? This will be our starting point!

Oh and yep Riley has chlorambucil and has been a saviour of a drug for him!

Oh and we all want that miracle but unfortunately ibd never gives us miracles  but we can get to a point of "ok" ness and we will!


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> I don't want to get too excited and tempt fate but ....... I've come home to a poo the size of a small hazelnut and it was quite firm   not much food has been eaten today though.


:thumbup: :thumbup: maybe a small step forward but at least it proves he *can* produce solid poo


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> I don't want to get too excited and tempt fate but ....... I've come home to a poo the size of a small hazelnut and it was quite firm   not much food has been eaten today though.


The best news I've seen all day, well, the firmness bit anyway.

I'm really, really sorry that the results of Roman's referral are not giving you confidence in the advice that you've received. I'm afraid that I don't really have enough experience of IBD to be confident in giving you advice myself though I'm sure that Nicola and buffie's advice will be invaluable. .

Moral support is about all I can offer, but of that I have an endless supply.

Sarah,I do desperately feel for you. IBD really is a b**ger. It feels like 1 step forward then 4 steps back. A solution may seem a lifetime away but I'm hopeful that bit by bit, (with help from your vet, Nicola and buffie ) you and Roman will get there.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> The best news I've seen all day, well, the firmness bit anyway.
> 
> I'm really, really sorry that the results of Roman's referral are not giving you confidence in the advice that you've received. I'm afraid that I don't really have enough experience of IBD to be confident in giving you advice myself though I'm sure that Nicola and buffie's advice will be invaluable. .
> 
> Moral support is about all I can offer, but of that I have an endless supply.
> 
> Sarah,I do desperately feel for you. IBD really is a b**ger. It feels like 1 step forward then 4 steps back. A solution may seem a lifetime away but I'm hopeful that bit by bit, (with help from your vet, Nicola and buffie ) you and Roman will get there.


Absolutely we will get there, if Riley can do it any cat can!! I think we just need to get to basics on this one with regards to food..

Oh on a sad note (sorry) badger is now having green jelly like poo despite samples being clear, he is now on sub cut fluids as he is not having his formula and also on ab's..come on little boy fight!


----------



## buffie

nicolaa123 said:


> Absolutely we will get there, if Riley can do it any cat can!! I think we just need to get to basics on this one with regards to food..
> 
> Oh on a sad note (sorry) badger is now having green jelly like poo despite samples being clear, he is now on sub cut fluids as he is not having his formula and also on ab's..come on little boy fight!


Sending healing vibes to Badger hope he pulls through okay


----------



## Forester

Sending love , and healing vibes to Badger.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> With everything else being ruled out I think you are looking at ibd. Now we need to look at this from another angle, can you make a list of everything he has ever eaten and what sort of reaction he had, this way we can start making a bad list, a maybe list and a safe list, then we look for foods that contain nothing from the bad list. I'm sorry you may have to remind me again was there any reaction to the goat or the kangaroo? If it was a case of just being fussy but didn't cause any explosions in the tray, it would be time for a bit of tough love to get him just eating this as a novel protein.
> 
> As his weight isn't an issue you can be a bit tougher with regards to the food! We need to get at least one food to get him stable, all this swapping around will not be helping his tummy (I'm not having a go by saying that) interesting enough Riley would only ever eat fish flavours before his problems!
> 
> I think I would also limit and slightly under feed him for a period to see if it's the amount of food going through his system is causing an issue. How many times do you feed him or is he free fed? How much do you put down?
> 
> Can you list good, maybe and safe foods? This will be our starting point!
> 
> Oh and yep Riley has chlorambucil and has been a saviour of a drug for him!
> 
> Oh and we all want that miracle but unfortunately ibd never gives us miracles  but we can get to a point of "ok" ness and we will!


Thanks Nicola, I really appreciate your help and advice on this, I can't be more grateful. I will do the lists of absolutely everything he's ever eaten and reactions. Might take a bit of time and get my brain working but feel this is something that needs doing.

I feel slightly disappointed, maybe not the right word, but something along those feelings why my vet or Patricia hasn't asked me to do something like this as I think it's something they should have asked me to do.

I know you're not having a go, I agree with you about the food, I'm not happy at all to keep chopping and changing just like that, and wasn't too happy with what was suggested by Patricia today.

He wouldn't touch the goat or kangaroo, Frank and Seb liked it.

I free feed and put food down when plates/bowls are getting low. You could be right that he's getting too much food.

Today has been a day of mixed emotions, feeling confused, upset, happy and I just don't know, it's like they've done their bit and that's it, maybe it's just me. I've also been really naughty and had a cigarette 

Thanks again for helping us  xxx



Forester said:


> The best news I've seen all day, well, the firmness bit anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really, really sorry that the results of Roman's referral are not giving you confidence in the advice that you've received. I'm afraid that I don't really have enough experience of IBD to be confident in giving you advice myself though I'm sure that Nicola and buffie's advice will be invaluable. .
> 
> Moral support is about all I can offer, but of that I have an endless supply.
> 
> Sarah,I do desperately feel for you. IBD really is a b**ger. It feels like 1 step forward then 4 steps back. A solution may seem a lifetime away but I'm hopeful that bit by bit, (with help from your vet, Nicola and buffie ) you and Roman will get there.


Thank you  xx



nicolaa123 said:


> Absolutely we will get there, if Riley can do it any cat can!! I think we just need to get to basics on this one with regards to food..
> 
> Oh on a sad note (sorry) badger is now having green jelly like poo despite samples being clear, he is now on sub cut fluids as he is not having his formula and also on ab's..come on little boy fight!


Sorry to hear about Badger  keeping everything crossed for the spiky little boy xx

Thank you again to you all for all your support and help and advice, I really wouldn't know what to do without you xxxx


----------



## Forester

Sarah,
My vet has *never* suggested looking at the ingredients in Dylan's food either, nor did she suggest using a novel protein so it is not just your vet .

This is one of the reasons I nearly fell out with her when I first took Dylan for a consultation. She just didn't seem to be looking at the problem from the same angle as me. Her initial reaction was if the sensitivity control worked then Dylan had some type of food sensitivity, if it didn't work then there must be another problem. I get the impression that the vets are indoctrinated into thinking that these vet diets are the answer to everything, which, of course they are not.

I hope that drawing up the ingredients list will provide you with a basis to work from.

I hope that this has come across o k . I'm not always very good at phrasing things.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Sarah,
> My vet has *never* suggested looking at the ingredients in Dylan's food either, nor did she suggest using a novel protein so it is not just your vet .
> 
> This is one of the reasons I nearly fell out with her when I first took Dylan for a consultation. She just didn't seem to be looking at the problem from the same angle as me. Her initial reaction was if the sensitivity control worked then Dylan had some type of food sensitivity, if it didn't work then there must be another problem. I get the impression that the vets are indoctrinated into thinking that these vet diets are the answer to everything, which, of course they are not.
> 
> I hope that drawing up the ingredients list will provide you with a basis to work from.
> 
> I hope that this has come across o k . I'm not always very good at phrasing things.


I know what you're saying and you always phrase things fine to me  unlike me where I go all around the houses 

Apart from what has been suggested on here by you lovely ladies  the only other person to advise is the young girl who does the admin at my vets who asked me if I've thought about raw and said if Roman would eat it, would more than likely help him, when I popped in for more food in the week she asked after Roman and said she'd be happy to do some research for me, bless her


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks Nicola, I really appreciate your help and advice on this, I can't be more grateful. I will do the lists of absolutely everything he's ever eaten and reactions. Might take a bit of time and get my brain working but feel this is something that needs doing.
> 
> I feel slightly disappointed, maybe not the right word, but something along those feelings why my vet or Patricia hasn't asked me to do something like this as I think it's something they should have asked me to do.
> 
> I know you're not having a go, I agree with you about the food, I'm not happy at all to keep chopping and changing just like that, and wasn't too happy with what was suggested by Patricia today.
> 
> He wouldn't touch the goat or kangaroo, Frank and Seb liked it.
> 
> I free feed and put food down when plates/bowls are getting low. You could be right that he's getting too much food.
> 
> Today has been a day of mixed emotions, feeling confused, upset, happy and I just don't know, it's like they've done their bit and that's it, maybe it's just me. I've also been really naughty and had a cigarette
> 
> Thanks again for helping us  xxx
> 
> Thank you  xx
> 
> Sorry to hear about Badger  keeping everything crossed for the spiky little boy xx
> 
> Thank you again to you all for all your support and help and advice, I really wouldn't know what to do without you xxxx


If it was me I would try the kangaroo or goat again, but do a bit of tough love with him. I would also introduce set meal times and measure out the food each time, I know it will be hard with three cats, but anyway roman can be fed separately in another room, give him say ten mins to all eat, then when that's up, take the bowls away. I would give a breakfast, lunch if you are home, dinner and supper. I have found that Riley is much better on a routine and I dish up what I know he will eat. He is currently on about 300g split over 4 meals.

I would give smaller meals so his digestion does not have to work as hard to digest the food. I'm not saying this will work but in my head it makes sense :crazy: if I overload my tummy I get a tummy ache and then my body wants to be rid of it the quickest way, I wonder if the same for cats.

If you can get him back onto wet food I would also add a teaspoon of pumpkin to bulk up the fibre again to slow the transition through the tummy.

Take your time over the lists, the change won't happen over night but it will happen....I would be smoking in your shoes...I'm over 30 days now smoke free 

Like I said lets take things back to the start and start again with the food..slowly slowly...


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> If it was me I would try the kangaroo or goat again,
> 
> Take your time over the lists, the change won't happen over night but it will happen....I would be smoking in your shoes...I'm over 30 days now smoke free
> 
> Like I said lets take things back to the start and start again with the food..slowly slowly...


Well done on the 30 days smoke free Nicola. It sounds as though you've got there.

On the subject of kangaroo, this seems like a good time to mention that I have 15 cans , free to a good cause. If Riley/ Roman / any other IBD kitty would like them please drop me a PM. I need the cupboard space .


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> If it was me I would try the kangaroo or goat again, but do a bit of tough love with him. I would also introduce set meal times and measure out the food each time, I know it will be hard with three cats, but anyway roman can be fed separately in another room, give him say ten mins to all eat, then when that's up, take the bowls away. I would give a breakfast, lunch if you are home, dinner and supper. I have found that Riley is much better on a routine and I dish up what I know he will eat. He is currently on about 300g split over 4 meals.
> 
> I would give smaller meals so his digestion does not have to work as hard to digest the food. I'm not saying this will work but in my head it makes sense :crazy: if I overload my tummy I get a tummy ache and then my body wants to be rid of it the quickest way, I wonder if the same for cats.
> 
> If you can get him back onto wet food I would also add a teaspoon of pumpkin to bulk up the fibre again to slow the transition through the tummy.
> 
> Take your time over the lists, the change won't happen over night but it will happen....I would be smoking in your shoes...I'm over 30 days now smoke free
> 
> Like I said lets take things back to the start and start again with the food..slowly slowly...


I will place an order from Vetconcept, I'll order some of each.

I'm happy to do set meal times, I'm sure they'll adjust, they'll have to.

Roman eats his breakfast in the kitchen on the worktop (yes I know) and prefers to eat there. Frank and Seb eat in the dining room, so easy to separate, I can close the door if needed. I'm only 2 miles to work so come home every lunchtime so can feed then.

It does make sense with eating smaller meals, I would assume it would be the same with cats if they over eat, a bit like Seb when he eats too much and too fast he sicks it back whole.

Roman is defiantly missing his wet food, keeps looking around for this especially if I get a plate out he gets excited thinking he's getting Felix.

Would you suggest I start feeding the Felix again until I get the goat/kangaroo? I have a tin of pumpkin and also some frozen in ice cube trays, I can defrost and mix some in.

Again, I'm really grateful, I know it won't happen over night and I'm prepared to try and do anything.

Still no more poo since the little hazelnut.

Well done and congrats on 30 days :thumbup: keep it up  I did nearly 9 months


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Well done on the 30 days smoke free Nicola. It sounds as though you've got there.
> 
> On the subject of kangaroo, this seems like a good time to mention that I have 15 cans , free to a good cause. If Riley/ Roman / any other IBD kitty would like them please drop me a PM. I need the cupboard space .


I'd be happy to take some skippy from you  thank you  xx I'll drop you a pm.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I will place an order from Vetconcept, I'll order some of each.
> 
> I'm happy to do set meal times, I'm sure they'll adjust, they'll have to.
> 
> Roman eats his breakfast in the kitchen on the worktop (yes I know) and prefers to eat there. Frank and Seb eat in the dining room, so easy to separate, I can close the door if needed. I'm only 2 miles to work so come home every lunchtime so can feed then.
> 
> It does make sense with eating smaller meals, I would assume it would be the same with cats if they over eat, a bit like Seb when he eats too much and too fast he sicks it back whole.
> 
> Roman is defiantly missing his wet food, keeps looking around for this especially if I get a plate out he gets excited thinking he's getting Felix.
> 
> Would you suggest I start feeding the Felix again until I get the goat/kangaroo? I have a tin of pumpkin and also some frozen in ice cube trays, I can defrost and mix some in.
> 
> Again, I'm really grateful, I know it won't happen over night and I'm prepared to try and do anything.
> 
> Still no more poo since the little hazelnut.
> 
> Well done and congrats on 30 days :thumbup: keep it up  I did nearly 9 months


I wouldn't start the Felix again if it was me I would stay on what he is on now as he has been on that a little while now and I would introduce the kangaroo a tea spoon at a time, noting any changes at all, build this up over the meals. If you start him on Felix he may not take to the kangaroo, but on dry if he is missing the wet he may take the kangaroo better.

Be interesting if any changes with just regulating the feeding, hopefully you can start this straight away, don't forget to measure out the food and keep a diary for reference  a food/poo diary is such a good reference tool!

Any change needs to be one thing at a time and referenced, that way easier for you to find the triggers.

I would start with regulating meals and meal times and see what happens.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Well done on the 30 days smoke free Nicola. It sounds as though you've got there.
> 
> On the subject of kangaroo, this seems like a good time to mention that I have 15 cans , free to a good cause. If Riley/ Roman / any other IBD kitty would like them please drop me a PM. I need the cupboard space .


Thanks..I still have the mental urge but it is getting less 

We have just had 9 cases of skippy delivered..goodness knows what we would do if they stopped making it :crazy:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I wouldn't start the Felix again if it was me I would stay on what he is on now as he has been on that a little while now and I would introduce the kangaroo a tea spoon at a time, noting any changes at all, build this up over the meals. If you start him on Felix he may not take to the kangaroo, but on dry if he is missing the wet he may take the kangaroo better.
> 
> Be interesting if any changes with just regulating the feeding, hopefully you can start this straight away, don't forget to measure out the food and keep a diary for reference  a food/poo diary is such a good reference tool!
> 
> Any change needs to be one thing at a time and referenced, that way easier for you to find the triggers.
> 
> I would start with regulating meals and meal times and see what happens.


That makes sense  I'll stick with the dry and then when I get the kangaroo intro slowly and fingers crossed he'll eat it.

I'll start tomorrow with the set meal times, I'm up around the same time at weekends as week days so breakfast will be same time and lunchtimes I go home same time everyday, weekends I'm usually at home.

I've never measured food out so will be interesting. I'll add a column for food in the diary, one side for poo the other for food and food info etc.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> That makes sense  I'll stick with the dry and then when I get the kangaroo intro slowly and fingers crossed he'll eat it.
> 
> I'll start tomorrow with the set meal times, I'm up around the same time at weekends as week days so breakfast will be same time and lunchtimes I go home same time everyday, weekends I'm usually at home.
> 
> I've never measured food out so will be interesting. I'll add a column for food in the diary, one side for poo the other for food and food info etc.


Anyone else getting excited about a poo/food diary??

No just me??

Ok just me :001_rolleyes: :biggrin5:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Anyone else getting excited about a poo/food diary??
> 
> No just me??
> 
> Ok just me :001_rolleyes: :biggrin5:


:lol:

I was excited when I started the poo diary  now I'm adding food to it, it's like a step in the right direction.

Patricia didn't look too excited about it when I took it out of my bag to read to her on Monday  

I'm in bed now but will take a pic of it tomorrow   It's a bright orange a5 size note book that I've written 'Poo Diary' on the front


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Anyone else getting excited about a poo/food diary??
> 
> No just me??
> 
> Ok just me :001_rolleyes: :biggrin5:


I have a vomit/ food/ med diary. In fact there's little else in my 2014 diary. I wonder what a stranger would think if they chose to read it.


----------



## bluecordelia

Blimey blink on this page and you miss a mile. I did post yesterday but cant see it. Blue is fine. I am just back to my brand new bed after the current 5-6am wake up call to go and chase the birdies. 

I hope roman settles soon. It so frustrating as you feel useless and just want them right. I am impressed by no ****....never been my vice as my dad was a brewer and the company also distilled vodka and gin so no guessing my vice. 

I hope riley and meeko are pooping well. I am predicting bluey will put a bit of pork on soon for winter although she is bombing around at full speed so feels lean. 

Positive hugs for roman...you can work this ib thing...love to meeko n riley. Forrester we have behaved and stayed in at night with no more festival dancing until next year.

Also hoglets get well xx
Take care girls and enjoy those kits xxx


----------



## sarahecp

Thanks BC  I'm sure we'll get there especially with the help and support from you ladies xx

No poos overnight, but one this morning, was a lot firmer and had shape to it   a smaller bit and longer bit. And no shouting either 

No food was left down overnight, and bowls have been taken up now until lunchtime. 

Off to tesco now and I'll take him out in the garden later for a little while for some fresh air 

Hope everyone is good and well today xx


----------



## bluecordelia

sarahecp said:


> Thanks BC  I'm sure we'll get there especially with the help and support from you ladies xx
> 
> No poos overnight, but one this morning, was a lot firmer and had shape to it   a smaller bit and longer bit. And no shouting either
> 
> No food was left down overnight, and bowls have been taken up now until lunchtime.
> 
> Off to tesco now and I'll take him out in the garden later for a little while for some fresh air
> 
> Hope everyone is good and well today xx


Sounds better roman. Blue ran around in an insane manner after a poop. We now just get her legging it to allow me to tidy up. We have 3trays down and 2of those are empty as she prefers to use these. I think it was how little litter might have been in her tray before i got her. When bad she went under sideboards ,in corners and the shower tray. Thank god for the pound shop mops!

Is roman a mc..he is a cutey as I am thinking they have a few tummy issues as a breed? Xxx


----------



## buffie

Morning everyone I feel a bit left out here,I don't have a poo/vomit/food diary 


but I do/did have a spreadsheet on my PC 
Havnt used it for a while though,now that Meeko is off all meds other than famotidine and he is such a fussy sod with food he has the same stuff every day with flavour rotation only 
Sounds as though Roman is heading in the right direction  fingers and paws crossed that it continues.
Hope everyone else is doing okay too.
Meeko is still picking but seems to be doing okay with the addition of a small amount of dry added.
I didn't want to give in after this long on wet but I cant have him starve himself either .


----------



## sarahecp

bluecordelia said:


> Sounds better roman. Blue ran around in an insane manner after a poop. We now just get her legging it to allow me to tidy up. We have 3trays down and 2of those are empty as she prefers to use these. I think it was how little litter might have been in her tray before i got her. When bad she went under sideboards ,in corners and the shower tray. Thank god for the pound shop mops!
> 
> Is roman a mc..he is a cutey as I am thinking they have a few tummy issues as a breed? Xxx


It made me smile  to see a shaped poo! 

It's sad seeing and hearing them like 

Thank you  yes he is a Coonie, I must update my siggie, he was 14 weeks old in that pic, he'll be 16 months next week 



buffie said:


> Morning everyone I feel a bit left out here,I don't have a poo/vomit/food diary
> 
> but I do/did have a spreadsheet on my PC
> Havnt used it for a while though,now that Meeko is off all meds other than famotidine and he is such a fussy sod with food he has the same stuff every day with flavour rotation only
> Sounds as though Roman is heading in the right direction  fingers and paws crossed that it continues.
> Hope everyone else is doing okay too.
> Meeko is still picking but seems to be doing okay with the addition of a small amount of dry added.
> I didn't want to give in after this long on wet but I cant have him starve himself either .


Spread sheet sounds a good idea, I'm going to put my food list in a spread sheet now, thanks for the idea 

Let's hope we're heading in the right direction now, he's just had lunch, not eaten much, been following me around a bit this morning, rubbing around me for food but sticking to the times 

Hopefully you can reduce the dry Meeko is eating bit by bit. But glad he's doing ok .

Here's our Poo & Food Diary


----------



## Forester

Its fantastic news that Roman's poo seems to be solidifying, sounds as though the pred. is starting to work:thumbup::thumbup:

BC, I know how you feel about this thread moving so quickly. I've logged on a couple of times and sent myself cross eyed trying to reply to so many new posts. I wish there was a way to scroll down through more than just the last few. 
It sounds as though you've come a long way with Blue. I wish that I knew what makes a litter tray attractive. Dyl will wait for me to clean the one in the kitchen which he's used overnight before he uses it at breakfast time. Meanwhile there's a perfectly good tray in the bedroom, which he used to use, but now refuses to.

I'm pleased that Meeko is eating, even if its not quite as much as you'd like buffie.
I took a spreadsheet with me when I last took Dylan to the vets. The look on the vets face was a picture. It showed total disbelief. Actually that was the last time I had a paid consult. Since then , apart from the endoscopy , I've just been reporting by phone. I wonder if the spreadsheet was too much for her.:lol:

Nicola, its reassuring to know that you have adequate supplies of kangaroo for Riley should we have a bad winter.. I know that you wanted to try " just goat" for him. Have you tried approaching local butchers to see if they could get any?. I have a butcher locally who states that he can get, ostrich, kangaroo, zebra , and camel. I don't know whether I would trust the meat to always be 100% what it was described as though. You wouldn't need to worry about it not being complete if you only fed it occaisionally , for a change. There again, thinking aloud, you might not want to feed more than one type of food at a time.

Sending positive and healing vibes to all IBD kitties , as well as to little Badger.


----------



## nicolaa123

If only that would last the winter :cryin:

Hope all are ok, pleased to hear roman is better in the poo stakes  long that may continue!


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Its fantastic news that Roman's poo seems to be solidifying, sounds as though the pred. is starting to work:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> BC, I know how you feel about this thread moving so quickly. I've logged on a couple of times and sent myself cross eyed trying to reply to so many new posts. I wish there was a way to scroll down through more than just the last few.
> It sounds as though you've come a long way with Blue. I wish that I knew what makes a litter tray attractive. Dyl will wait for me to clean the one in the kitchen which he's used overnight before he uses it at breakfast time. Meanwhile there's a perfectly good tray in the bedroom, which he used to use, but now refuses to.
> 
> I'm pleased that Meeko is eating, even if its not quite as much as you'd like buffie.
> I took a spreadsheet with me when I last took Dylan to the vets. The look on the vets face was a picture. It showed total disbelief. Actually that was the last time I had a paid consult. Since then , apart from the endoscopy , I've just been reporting by phone. I wonder if the spreadsheet was too much for her.:lol:
> 
> Nicola, its reassuring to know that you have adequate supplies of kangaroo for Riley should we have a bad winter.. I know that you wanted to try " just goat" for him. Have you tried approaching local butchers to see if they could get any?. I have a butcher locally who states that he can get, ostrich, kangaroo, zebra , and camel. I don't know whether I would trust the meat to always be 100% what it was described as though. You wouldn't need to worry about it not being complete if you only fed it occaisionally , for a change. There again, thinking aloud, you might not want to feed more than one type of food at a time.
> 
> Sending positive and healing vibes to all IBD kitties , as well as to little Badger.


Sorry I'm sure I posted more on my reply!

I would love to try him on the more exotic foods, but unless it comes in a can he isn't interested!! The USA have some fantastic unusual cat food flavours but sadly if he would be ok with them the shipping would be horrendous, plus taxes, us chance of it being seized at customs etc etc and most USA companies don't ship here 

Very excited shepreth was nominated for ss rescue!! Hope we get the extension


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

GUTTED!

Been looking forward to this for months, but I've just been diagnosed with narcolepsy and will have to stop driving, so I won't be able to go!


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## Forester

Should have quoted Shosh's post above.

Oh no Shosh. Its disappointing that you won't be able to go ( I had been looking forward to your report on the conference) but its vital that you look after your health.

I know nothing about narcolepsy but hope that it might be controllable with meds. If so, I'm sure that there will be another such conference at some stage in the future. Are you going to be able to manage for work? Years ago , one of the vets I use lost his license and was driven to all of his calls by one of the vet nurses. You could have your own private chauffeur.

Please take care of yourself. Without your contributions P F wouldn't be half the place it is now.

Sending (((( Hugs ))))


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> GUTTED!
> 
> Been looking forward to this for months, but I've just been diagnosed with narcolepsy and will have to stop driving, so I won't be able to go!


Oh no on both counts, hopefully you can get it under control..maybe there will be some one you know going that can give you their notes..

Take care of yourself xx


----------



## buffie

Shoshannah said:


> GUTTED!
> 
> Been looking forward to this for months, but I've just been diagnosed with narcolepsy and will have to stop driving, so I won't be able to go!


Sorry to read this Shoshannah , will this have an impact on your veterinary work .
I don't really know much about it but it must be quite a scary experience suddenly falling asleep.


----------



## sarahecp

Really sorry to hear this Shosh  i don't know much about it, can it be treated with meds? I hope you can get it sorted and under control if you can. 

Is there anyone that can take you to the conference? 

Take care and look after yourself xx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Sorry, I didn't mean to throw a thread hijack. 

I don't know much about narcolepsy, but I'm guessing I have a very mild form. I don't fall asleep suddenly mid-conversation or anything. I just get very drowsy very quickly, and sleep for many hours more than I should do (for example, I slept sixteen hours last night and I'm ready to fall asleep again should I let myself). Have to start on some meds to promote wakefulness.

Won't affect my work.  I'm fine if I'm busy, I'm just away with the fairies if I sit down! Will be a pain not being able to drive, but the other vets will have to do house visits for a while.

I'll have to leave the conference. While I was willing to drive 150 miles down there for it it's a little unfair to ask OH to drive me, and I think public transport would be a bit of a pain.

I'll still be going to the ICC Cat Conference, and hoping to make it to the APBC one too! Dragging OH to that. 

I just hope that I can get my license back sooner rather than later!


----------



## sarahecp

It's a shame you're not closer Shosh, the venue isn't far from me and I would have taken you.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Aw bless you, thanks for the offer!


----------



## bluecordelia

Surely the real experts Nicola n buffie should be presenting???

Really sorry about you being restricted with work n home Shoshanna...what a pain in the ass. 

I have blinked on a day out to Liverpool and all change. The empty litter tray is odd with blue. I think it was her preference to use the shower tray which got me going down that road. When i saw her with the breeder i never saw a litter tray and wasn't switched on. A visit to my adopted rescue and i saw min litter on a kits tray...changed very often so i just put an empty one down. Bluey is a poop n go girl...no covering and would go next to the tray if it had been already used. It works for us and is easy to clean. Luckily i now put all trays in the utility room. The shower tray is used maybe once a month rather than daily. 

Despite frequent outdoor access the trays are used daily by both Ivan n bluey...hey Rome wasn't built in a day. 

Take care all xxx


----------



## sarahecp

Afternoon all 

Roman has been very quiet today and very sleepy, took him out in the garden this morning and he just pottered around for a bit and took himself back indoors, he laid by the back door for a while and then went for a sleep on the sofa, he's been sleeping most of the day, in his tunnel asleep now. Think the Pred is really affecting him now and he's hardly eaten anything either. Think he's had enough of the dry. And his poo has gone back to being runny again. 

I think the quicker I get him off the dry the better. Fingers crossed he likes the Skippy and it likes him. 

Hope everyone is ok and well. 

xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Afternoon all
> 
> Roman has been very quiet today and very sleepy, took him out in the garden this morning and he just pottered around for a bit and took himself back indoors, he laid by the back door for a while and then went for a sleep on the sofa, he's been sleeping most of the day, in his tunnel asleep now. Think the Pred is really affecting him now and he's hardly eaten anything either. Think he's had enough of the dry. *And his poo has gone back to being runny again*.
> 
> I think the quicker I get him off the dry the better. Fingers crossed he likes the Skippy and it likes him.
> 
> Hope everyone is ok and well.
> 
> xx


Bu**er just when it looked like there may have been a little light at the end of the tunnel 

Poor Roman he must be just as fed up of this as you are ,one step forward two back.
Fingers and paws crossed that you get him sorted and on to a food that agrees with him.

Hope all other IBD'ers are doing okay,Meeko has been on a high today and eating fairly well,mad as a brush and doing everything at the speed of light .
Maybe he hasn't been feeling "right" for the last few days after all .


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Bu**er just when it looked like there may have been a little light at the end of the tunnel
> 
> Poor Roman he must be just as fed up of this as you are ,one step forward two back.
> Fingers and paws crossed that you get him sorted and on to a food that agrees with him.
> 
> Hope all other IBD'ers are doing okay,Meeko has been on a high today and eating fairly well,mad as a brush and doing everything at the speed of light .
> Maybe he hasn't been feeling "right" for the last few days after all .


We've had no poos since this morning, again I'm thinking that's a good thing, I'm trying to stay positive and telling myself that we 'will' get there.

I think Ro is a little peed off with me today, he's caught me twice giving wet food to Frank and Seb, there's no quiet way of opening a can with a ring pull  I felt very guilty  I gave him his bowl of dry that he turned his nose up to and went upstairs to sleep.

Pleased to hear Meeko's been eating well and has been as mad as a brush


----------



## bluecordelia

Sometimes i feel letting the bowel rest a day can help. Blue when bad was very quiet , lay in the bathroom and had to be lifted up onto the bed 
the constant runny bot wiped her out. She ate fine after her metronodazole and has always preferred wet thank goodness. 

Come on roman..
Hope everyone else ok.
.the indian summer is great as the cats are having fun in the garden but driving me mad with sticky bobbles in their coats.

X


----------



## koekemakranka

Goodness, lots of hard work and drama for the forum's sick kitties and slaves.

Just to update on Girly. She is on meds (anti-nausea and a liver support tonic) twice a day and an appetite stimulant once a day. At the beginning, my OH was away, and she ate well. The minute he returned (yesterday morning) she started her pickiness again (she adores him and unfortunately he indulges her). I have banned him from giving her treats as I feel she needs better nutrients in what she eats. Vet says she will take at least 3 weeks to recover. She is not herself and seems to be quite depressed 
The giving of meds is an absolute nightmare as she becomes a hellcat. I have to wrap her in a towel and I still come away bloodied.
Her poops so far are normal and there is no more vomiting.


----------



## sarahecp

We still have runny poo 

Post hasn't arrived at work yet, so
Hopefully Skippy is waiting for me when I get back from lunch



bluecordelia said:


> Sometimes i feel letting the bowel rest a day can help. Blue when bad was very quiet , lay in the bathroom and had to be lifted up onto the bed
> the constant runny bot wiped her out. She ate fine after her metronodazole and has always preferred wet thank goodness.
> 
> Come on roman..
> Hope everyone else ok.
> .the indian summer is great as the cats are having fun in the garden but driving me mad with sticky bobbles in their coats.
> 
> X


I think with these couple of weeks on dry Roman actually prefers wet food :thumbup:

Don't talk about sticky balls  not too bad in Frank and Seb they let me pick them off  but Roman being semi long haired it's a mare :roll eyes:

xx



koekemakranka said:


> Goodness, lots of hard work and drama for the forum's sick kitties and slaves.
> 
> Just to update on Girly. She is on meds (anti-nausea and a liver support tonic) twice a day and an appetite stimulant once a day. At the beginning, my OH was away, and she ate well. The minute he returned (yesterday morning) she started her pickiness again (she adores him and unfortunately he indulges her). I have banned him from giving her treats as I feel she needs better nutrients in what she eats. Vet says she will take at least 3 weeks to recover. She is not herself and seems to be quite depressed
> The giving of meds is an absolute nightmare as she becomes a hellcat. I have to wrap her in a towel and I still come away bloodied.
> Her poops so far are normal and there is no more vomiting.


Thanks for the update on Girly. Fingers crossed the meds help her. Pleased to hear no more vomiting and normal poos 

And hope she's back to her normal self really soon.

xx


----------



## sarahecp

Skippy has arrived safely  Thank you Sylv  xx

I will start with a teaspoonful with dinner, will keep you updated on how we get on.


----------



## nicolaa123

Just remember slower is better, if he eats the teaspoon don't be tempted to give more!!!! Better to keep it to a teaspoon per meal time for a week I would say then move to teaspoon and a half for another week etc etc, each time noting any changes!

Good to hear the other updates, Meeko sounds like he is back to his normal self! Hope girly takes her meds ok and you are right on the treat front!

Riley is well Riley, pain in the bum! I'm still being shouted at at silly o' clock so guessing the plug in isn't working


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Just remember slower is better, if he eats the teaspoon don't be tempted to give more!!!! Better to keep it to a teaspoon per meal time for a week I would say then move to teaspoon and a half for another week etc etc, each time noting any changes!
> 
> Good to hear the other updates, Meeko sounds like he is back to his normal self! Hope girly takes her meds ok and you are right on the treat front!
> 
> Riley is well Riley, pain in the bum! I'm still being shouted at at silly o' clock so guessing the plug in isn't working


I will make sure I don't give him anymore than a teaspoon 

I'll be making notes in the diary.

I'm still in the process of doing the food list


----------



## sarahecp

Forget to ask, when shall I start adding the pumpkin? Xx


----------



## buffie

koekemakranka said:


> Goodness, lots of hard work and drama for the forum's sick kitties and slaves.
> 
> Just to update on Girly. She is on meds (anti-nausea and a liver support tonic) twice a day and an appetite stimulant once a day. At the beginning, my OH was away, and she ate well. The minute he returned (yesterday morning) she started her pickiness again (she adores him and unfortunately he indulges her). I have banned him from giving her treats as I feel she needs better nutrients in what she eats. Vet says she will take at least 3 weeks to recover. She is not herself and seems to be quite depressed
> The giving of meds is an absolute nightmare as she becomes a hellcat. I have to wrap her in a towel and I still come away bloodied.
> Her poops so far are normal and there is no more vomiting.


Thanks for updating on Girly's progress.
Medicating a reluctant cat is a nightmare  I'm fairly lucky Meeko isnt too bad in that department but does have his "moments".
Hope the meds sort her out and she can get back to being a happy cat again.

Sarah ,paws crossed that the skippy is well received and works its magic with Roman .

Nicola ,if you feel the feliway isn't working,the next time Riley tries to wake you up at daft'o'clock ,unplug it and tell him that the next use for it will be to see if you can hit him on the backside with it   (only joking)

Dylan hope you are doing okay 

Meeko has a face like slapped a*rse ,its raining/misty and cold.He seems to think it is all my fault and that there is a tap somewhere that I can turn off


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Forget to ask, when shall I start adding the pumpkin? Xx


I would say hold off on that for now, one change at a time, not only as better in his system but also enables you to know if there is a reaction was it the kanagroo or the pumpkin.


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I would say hold off on that for now, one change at a time, not only as better in his system but also enables you to know if there is a reaction was it the kanagroo or the pumpkin.


That's what I thought, so didn't defrost any, thanks for confirming 

Skippy gets the

:thumbup:  But I think any wet food will at the moment, he ate it like he was starved bless him. I will give another teaspoon at supper time.


----------



## Forester

koekemakarana. I'm sending " medicating" vibes for Girly. I expect that you've already tried it but I used to roll tablets / capsules in butter to help them slide down more easily when I had to give several lots of meds each day. Hoping that she'll soon be feeling much better.

Sarah, I'm so pleased that skippy arrived in good condition . Fingers crossed that it will help.

buffie, Its good to hear that Meeko is eating well and feeling lively. 

There must be " something in the air". Dylan has been an absolute lunatic today , racing around and jumping off every piece of furniture/ window sill as if he's trying to paraglide.

I would have expected him to be quiet today as he has had dire rear for the last 36hours. I suspect that its been caused by rabbit heart, no more of that for him . I'm starting to understand what Nicola, Sarah and Bluecordelia go through on a regular basis. I've been cleaning " skid marks" off the oatmeal coloured carpet ( sorry if TMI) and washing a duvet cover which had been on for less than 24 hours. I am so relieved that Dylan's problem is at the front end. I don't want to tempt fate but its a week since he was last sick.

Nicola ,I wish that I could offer a suggestion as to how to prevent Riley waking you early. Unfortunately, all that I can think of is ear plugs but then you'd need a strongly vibrating alarm to wake you later.

Bluecordelia, I've decided that " need" is at the root of Dylan's litter tray preference. Whilst his tummy has been upset he's been using both trays. He refuses to use a tray which hasn't been cleaned so he's been using one whilst I
clean the other.

love to all IBD kitties and slaves


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> That's what I thought, so didn't defrost any, thanks for confirming
> 
> Skippy gets the
> 
> :thumbup:  But I think any wet food will at the moment, he ate it like he was starved bless him. I will give another teaspoon at supper time.


Good he ate it, hopefully that continues!! Also hopefully the end results will improve, but don't get disheartened if you don't see an immediate response as he is is still on both foods..will be interesting to see how things go on one tea spoon a meal that's what 4 teaspoons a day so we are talking what 25g per day? Or will it be 50g might be worth measuring that out..did he eat some dry as well or just the wet? Don't forget to decrease the dry amount by the 5g of wet food


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> koekemakarana. I'm sending " medicating" vibes for Girly. I expect that you've already tried it but I used to roll tablets / capsules in butter to help them slide down more easily when I had to give several lots of meds each day. Hoping that she'll soon be feeling much better.
> 
> Sarah, I'm so pleased that skippy arrived in good condition . Fingers crossed that it will help.
> 
> buffie, Its good to hear that Meeko is eating well and feeling lively.
> 
> There must be " something in the air". Dylan has been an absolute lunatic today , racing around and jumping off every piece of furniture/ window sill as if he's trying to paraglide.
> 
> I would have expected him to be quiet today as he has had dire rear for the last 36hours. I suspect that its been caused by rabbit heart, no more of that for him . I'm starting to understand what Nicola, Sarah and Bluecordelia go through on a regular basis. I've been cleaning " skid marks" off the oatmeal coloured carpet ( sorry if TMI) and washing a duvet cover which had been on for less than 24 hours. I am so relieved that Dylan's problem is at the front end. I don't want to tempt fate but its a week since he was last sick.
> 
> Nicola ,I wish that I could offer a suggestion as to how to prevent Riley waking you early. Unfortunately, all that I can think of is ear plugs but then you'd need a strongly vibrating alarm to wake you later.
> 
> Bluecordelia, I've decided that " need" is at the root of Dylan's litter tray preference. Whilst his tummy has been upset he's been using both trays. He refuses to use a tray which hasn't been cleaned so he's been using one whilst I
> clean the other.
> 
> love to all IBD kitties and slaves


At least he avoided the curtains :w00t: hopefully he will continue to do well..when do you start to taper off the pred?


----------



## sarahecp

Thanks again Sylv  xx

Sorry to hear Dylan has had dire rear  fingers crossed it clears up soon. Sounds like it hasn't affected him though 

Nicola, sorry the Feliway isn't helping Riley, it did nothing at all here either. You could try the other plug in, is it rescue remedy, the smelly one? Or if your vet says Zylkene is ok to give him I have plenty here I can send you. No other advice to stop him from waking you, I have always had that problem with Seb, my own fault as I won't shut the bedroom door, sometimes he'll snuggle in bed with me and settle down, other times it's paws in the face. Frank and Roman are as good as gold and won't wake me like Seb does. Hope you can find a solution.



nicolaa123 said:


> Good he ate it, hopefully that continues!! Also hopefully the end results will improve, but don't get disheartened if you don't see an immediate response as he is is still on both foods..will be interesting to see how things go on one tea spoon a meal that's what 4 teaspoons a day so we are talking what 25g per day? Or will it be 50g might be worth measuring that out..did he eat some dry as well or just the wet? Don't forget to decrease the dry amount by the 5g of wet food


I don't own any kitchen scales  just guesstimate when cooking and I never bake. I will get some at Argos tomorrow.

I gave less dry, he ate the skippy and a couple of mouthfuls of dry, that's all he's been eating since he's been on the set meal times, I'm leaving it down for 10 minutes like you suggested, I thought he'd eat more of it but he's not. I weighed him today and he is still 6kg be interesting to see what he weighs at the vet on Wednesday when he has his booster to see the difference in scales.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Thanks again Sylv  xx
> 
> Sorry to hear Dylan has had dire rear  fingers crossed it clears up soon. Sounds like it hasn't affected him though
> 
> Nicola, sorry the Feliway isn't helping Riley, it did nothing at all here either. You could try the other plug in, is it rescue remedy, the smelly one? Or if your vet says Zylkene is ok to give him I have plenty here I can send you. No other advice to stop him from waking you, I have always had that problem with Seb, my own fault as I won't shut the bedroom door, sometimes he'll snuggle in bed with me and settle down, other times it's paws in the face. Frank and Roman are as good as gold and won't wake me like Seb does. Hope you can find a solution.
> 
> I don't own any kitchen scales  just guesstimate when cooking and I never bake. I will get some at Argos tomorrow.
> 
> I gave less dry, he ate the skippy and a couple of mouthfuls of dry, that's all he's been eating since he's been on the set meal times, I'm leaving it down for 10 minutes like you suggested, I thought he'd eat more of it but he's not. I weighed him today and he is still 6kg be interesting to see what he weighs at the vet on Wednesday when he has his booster to see the difference in scales.


It will take some time to adjust, I use to free feed Riley and he would graze, to be honest it's only really now what nearly three years later he will eat his meal entirely in one setting, apart from breakfast 

Let's see how he goes on the skippy, we maybe able to increase after one week of tea spooning a bit more than half, I just think lets not rush but let Romans output decide how much more after a week :smile5:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> It will take some time to adjust, I use to free feed Riley and he would graze, to be honest it's only really now what nearly three years later he will eat his meal entirely in one setting, apart from breakfast
> 
> Let's see how he goes on the skippy, we maybe able to increase after one week of tea spooning a bit more than half, I just think lets not rush but let Romans output decide how much more after a week :smile5:


I don't want to rush things, that's why I wasn't happy when Patricia suggested just changing his food straight away and not introducing slowly.

How long will a can of food last in the fridge? I've put it into a glass pot with lid.


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I don't want to rush things, that's why I wasn't happy when Patricia suggested just changing his food straight away and not introducing slowly.
> 
> How long will a can of food last in the fridge? I've put it into a glass pot with lid.


I would say at least two days as that's how long it lasts here..I'm sure it would last longer than that tho..

You could give some to seb and frankie tho to save wasting it :smile5:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> I would say at least two days as that's how long it lasts here..I'm sure it would last longer than that tho..
> 
> You could give some to seb and frankie tho to save wasting it :smile5:


Thanks 

I'm sure they'll like that


----------



## nicolaa123

Badger has turned the corner and is now eating very very well..foxy also came down with what badger had (still a mystery) is doing better so should be even better tomorrow, they are both on ab's.

I'm so happy I have been sent a video of little badger..but not sure how to out videos on here, but he looks just :001_tt1:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Badger has turned the corner and is now eating very very well..foxy also came down with what badger had (still a mystery) is doing better so should be even better tomorrow, they are both on ab's.
> 
> I'm so happy I have been sent a video of little badger..but not sure how to out videos on here, but he looks just :001_tt1:


That's great news :thumbup:

I'd love to see the video  I've tried posting videos before but can't get them to work  think you may need to upload to something like Photobucket or YouTube. Buffie has posted videos before hopefully she'll be along with some tips


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> That's great news :thumbup:
> 
> I'd love to see the video  I've tried posting videos before but can't get them to work  think you may need to upload to something like Photobucket or YouTube. Buffie has posted videos before hopefully she'll be along with some tips


You could pm me your email and I can forward it on to you


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> At least he avoided the curtains :w00t: hopefully he will continue to do well..when do you start to taper off the pred?


I did nearly mention that its a good job that my curtains end above the level of Dylan's bum. I was thinking of you 

I have to report back on Dylan's response to the pred. a week on Wednesday or as soon as I can get hold of her afterwards. This will be 2 weeks after going on to the higher dose.

Sarah, why don't you freeze part of the can of skippy so that you can come back to it in 2 or 3 days. That's what I do when I'm trying to introduce a food slowly.

Aww, that's fantastic news about Badger. I was wondering whether there would be news of his progress after the weekend. Sorry to hear that Foxy is now poorly. Hopefully the same TLC which worked for Badger will also work for her.I'd love to see a video if you find out how to post it :001_wub:


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> You could pm me your email and I can forward it on to you


Can I? I'd love to see the video.


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Can I? I'd love to see the video.


Of course :smile5:


----------



## sarahecp

Thanks Sylv, didn't think of freezing it. 

Thanks Nicola, just sent you a pm.


----------



## nicolaa123

Sent  enjoy


----------



## sarahecp

He is soooo :001_tt1: :001_tt1: 

Bless him  he looks like he's grown a little bit too  xx


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> He is soooo :001_tt1: :001_tt1:
> 
> Bless him  he looks like he's grown a little bit too  xx


They grown so quickly day by day they change so much!


----------



## nicolaa123

Sylv on its way


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Sylv on its way


Wow! You certainly did a good job with him . To my uneducated eye he looks quite tubby. He's absolutely gorgeous.:001_wub::001_wub:


----------



## nicolaa123

Arrggghhhhhhhgh my internet is now playing up on my phone..grrrrrrr it may come through still or if not I will send again


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> Wow! You certainly did a good job with him . To my uneducated eye he looks quite tubby. He's absolutely gorgeous.:001_wub::001_wub:


Ah you got it..phone driving me mad! He is looking good I can't wait for him to be released and make mini badgers


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Arrggghhhhhhhgh my internet is now playing up on my phone..grrrrrrr it may come through still or if not I will send again


It came through . I've posted above and also replied to your e-mail.

Thanks again. Its a lovely video, in fact I think that I'll watch it again. He is so beautiful.


----------



## sarahecp

Morning all 

No poos over night, this morning he ate a bit more than he has been, still ate the skippy. He's back to shouting again before using the tray, was doing it this morning for about 10 mins, in the end I put him in his tray, jumped straight out  I went upstairs to get ready for work, I then heard squirty noises coming from downstairs, run down quickly, and he'd done a poo in the hallway  don't understand why he did this  

Car has gone in for a service so won't be able to get home at lunchtime unless I can get a lift from someone, I've set up the automatic feeder just in case and hoping Frank and Seb don't eat the skippy. And hope I'm not going to go home to poo all over the house 

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> Morning all
> 
> No poos over night, this morning he ate a bit more than he has been, still ate the skippy. He's back to shouting again before using the tray, was doing it this morning for about 10 mins, in the end I put him in his tray, jumped straight out  I went upstairs to get ready for work, I then heard squirty noises coming from downstairs, run down quickly, and he'd done a poo in the hallway  don't understand why he did this
> 
> Car has gone in for a service so won't be able to get home at lunchtime unless I can get a lift from someone, I've set up the automatic feeder just in case and hoping Frank and Seb don't eat the skippy. And hope I'm not going to go home to poo all over the house
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


Morning.

The no poo overnight is good .

Perhaps Roman had his mind on other things when you put him in the tray but then got " caught short" in the hallway. Perhaps another tray or two might help whilst he's having problems.

Whenever I have placed any of my cats in the tray they have always jumped out immediately as if to say " I'll go when *I* want to , not when *you *tell me to, thank you.

Sending vibes for a clean house tonight.

Dyl still has dire rear. It seems to be going on a bit too long to have been the piece of rabbit heart. I think I'll see how he goes ( excuse the pun )during the day and maybe ring the vets later if it continues. I'm wondering whether it might be caused by the pred.

Hoping that Meeko will eat well today, ( and not vomit) and that Riley, Roman and Blue will only produce solid poo which has been carefully placed in a tray.

I went to sleep smiling last night , thinking of little Badger. He looks such a sweetie.


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Morning.
> 
> The no poo overnight is good .
> 
> Perhaps Roman had his mind on other things when you put him in the tray but then got " caught short" in the hallway. Perhaps another tray or two might help whilst he's having problems.
> 
> Whenever I have placed any of my cats in the tray they have always jumped out immediately as if to say " I'll go when *I* want to , not when *you *tell me to, thank you.
> 
> Sending vibes for a clean house tonight.
> 
> Dyl still has dire rear. It seems to be going on a bit too long to have been the piece of rabbit heart. I think I'll see how he goes ( excuse the pun )during the day and maybe ring the vets later if it continues. I'm wondering whether it might be caused by the pred.
> 
> Hoping that Meeko will eat well today, ( and not vomit) and that Riley, Roman and Blue will only produce solid poo which has been carefully placed in a tray.
> 
> I went to sleep smiling last night , thinking of little Badger. He looks such a sweetie.


Thanks Sylv 

Funny you should say that about the Pred, I've been thinking along these lines too. I will speak to my vet about it when we're there tomorrow.


----------



## sarahecp

I couldn't not go home at lunchtime so took early lunch to catch the bus, no poo's   and he ate his skippy  just waiting for the bus back now probably be late but feel better for going home as I'm not sure what time I'll be back later, OH picking me up to collect the car. Just hope it was a one off and I go home to a clean house.


----------



## sarahecp

Quick update - got home just after 6, no poos and still none  he's had his dinner with skippy, will give him some more at supper time.

Hope all masters, mistresses, hogs and slaves are all ok xx


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> Quick update - got home just after 6, no poos and still none  he's had his dinner with skippy, will give him some more at supper time.
> 
> Hope all masters, mistresses, hogs and slaves are all ok xx


Sounds like maybe skippy may agree with Roman,early days yet but at least it looks possible  paws crossed for a continued "result"
Hope all other members of the IBD club are doing okay ,Meeko is still a bit up and down but the weather hasn't been great so I don't think that is helping.


----------



## bluecordelia

Roman keep it up....i don't know others think but i add warm previously boiled water to all wet to hydrate and stop constipation plus cats are awful drinkers. The water fountain and bowl are fairly untouched at the mo. 

Blue send her love. Since posting about them still using trays despite outdoor access, both cats seem to have adopted the au naturel method. I am now paranoid as I don't know how often blue is going.....

X


----------



## bluecordelia

buffie said:


> Sounds like maybe skippy may agree with Roman,early days yet but at least it looks possible  paws crossed for a continued "result"
> Hope all other members of the IBD club are doing okay ,Meeko is still a bit up and down but the weather hasn't been great so I don't think that is helping.


Meeko get right...xxxcx


----------



## bluecordelia

Also Dylan..

Big pos vibes xxx

The heat is awful at the mo. 

X


----------



## sarahecp

buffie said:


> Sounds like maybe skippy may agree with Roman,early days yet but at least it looks possible  paws crossed for a continued "result"
> Hope all other members of the IBD club are doing okay ,Meeko is still a bit up and down but the weather hasn't been great so I don't think that is helping.


We've had a runny poo tonight, I caught him scraping the floor in the dining room so put him in his tray, he went in there. Maybe he's associating the tray with pain or discomfort, I have ordered another tray from ZooPlus today to see if that helps. He's never done it outside the tray before this morning.

Hope Meeko levels out soon  xx



bluecordelia said:


> Roman keep it up....i don't know others think but i add warm previously boiled water to all wet to hydrate and stop constipation plus cats are awful drinkers. The water fountain and bowl are fairly untouched at the mo.
> 
> Blue send her love. Since posting about them still using trays despite outdoor access, both cats seem to have adopted the au naturel method. I am now paranoid as I don't know how often blue is going.....
> 
> X


Roman is drinking more than usual, the steroids and dry food are doing that. I've been supervising Roman while he's out in the garden, he does tend to wee outside and comes in to use his tray for a poo, only on a couple of occasions I've seen he has had a poo outside in the area Frank and Seb go, when he has been shouting to announce he wants to go he does sit at the back door sometimes so it could be worth me getting some earth to put in his tray, he may prefer that. xx


----------



## bluecordelia

Try him with soil...they are all funny individuals. Blue when bad went in my room..yak ...under a sideboard..pain to get at and in a corner in lounge next to a big deep litter tray. It really was trial and error to see what she liked. 

Keep positive x


----------



## buffie

sarahecp said:


> We've had a runny poo tonight, I caught him scraping the floor in the dining room so put him in his tray, he went in there. Maybe he's associating the tray with pain or discomfort, I have ordered another tray from ZooPlus today to see if that helps. He's never done it outside the tray before this morning.
> 
> Hope Meeko levels out soon  xx
> 
> Roman is drinking more than usual, the steroids and dry food are doing that. I've been supervising Roman while he's out in the garden, he does tend to wee outside and comes in to use his tray for a poo, only on a couple of occasions I've seen he has had a poo outside in the area Frank and Seb go, when he has been shouting to announce he wants to go he does sit at the back door sometimes so it could be worth me getting some earth to put in his tray, he may prefer that. xx


Poor Roman sounds like he is associating pain/discomfort when using his tray  
Its things like this that make us feel so useless ,all we want to do is make things better for them but how 
Hope another tray helps him.

Meeko is ,for him,still doing reasonably well,just not being "consistent" with it


----------



## buffie

bluecordelia said:


> Meeko get right...xxxcx


Meeko is doing not too bad just some days are better than others,but we are well used to that now 
I have to add water to every meal to get fluid into him as he never seems to touch his water bowls,or fountain.He just dismantles that making the floor soaking wet and bits of fountain flapping about on the floor


----------



## sarahecp

bluecordelia said:


> Try him with soil...they are all funny individuals. Blue when bad went in my room..yak ...under a sideboard..pain to get at and in a corner in lounge next to a big deep litter tray. It really was trial and error to see what she liked.
> 
> Keep positive x


I've always used the same litter since day one and no problems, I will get some soil. Will a bag of peat free top soil be ok?

Trying to keep positive xx



buffie said:


> Poor Roman sounds like he is associating pain/discomfort when using his tray
> Its things like this that make us feel so useless ,all we want to do is make things better for them but how
> Hope another tray helps him.
> 
> Meeko is ,for him,still doing reasonably well,just not being "consistent" with it


It's horrible, I feel for him so much, I wish they could talk 

Hope the second tray and maybe the soil will help.

Glad Mr M is doing ok xx


----------



## Forester

I'm sorry that Roman's poo situation is not going well. I really do feel for you Sarah, and for all others who have poo problems, ( with their kitties :wink. 
I found it distressing for just 24 hours so my heart goes out to you.My admiration for Nicola's calm approach to such a situation increases by the day.

Its great that Roman's enjoying the skippy. There are another 12 cans for him here, just waiting for the go ahead to send.

Maybe the conversation with the vet may provide more information on what is going on. I do hope so. Please try not to stress so much . I know that its sooo hard but being more relaxed could help both you and Roman. 

Just a light hearted warning if you decide to use soil in a litter tray. I did this years ago for two cats that I had. Each Christmas I took them with me to visit my parents . One of them , Cleo , used to insist on trying to use the bucket which the Christmas Tree was planted in as a litter tray. Even when I covered the soil with crepe paper she would scrape the paper away so that she could use the soil. She did it one evening when we had friends around. I felt so embarrassed.:blush:

I'm hopeful that Dylan's period with "the runs" is over. He hasn't been since yesterday morning so it seems as though it must have been the rabbit heart which caused it. 

I hope that today will supply better weather for Meeko as well as an increased appetite.

love and positive vibes to all IBD kitties and slaves


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> I'm sorry that Roman's poo situation is not going well. I really do feel for you Sarah, and for all others who have poo problems, ( with their kitties :wink.
> I found it distressing for just 24 hours so my heart goes out to you.My admiration for Nicola's calm approach to such a situation increases by the day.
> 
> Its great that Roman's enjoying the skippy. There are another 12 cans for him here, just waiting for the go ahead to send.
> 
> Maybe the conversation with the vet may provide more information on what is going on. I do hope so. Please try not to stress so much . I know that its sooo hard but being more relaxed could help both you and Roman.
> 
> Just a light hearted warning if you decide to use soil in a litter tray. I did this years ago for two cats that I had. Each Christmas I took them with me to visit my parents . One of them , Cleo , used to insist on trying to use the bucket which the Christmas Tree was planted in as a litter tray. Even when I covered the soil with crepe paper she would scrape the paper away so that she could use the soil. She did it one evening when we had friends around. I felt so embarrassed.:blush:
> 
> I'm hopeful that Dylan's period with "the runs" is over. He hasn't been since yesterday morning so it seems as though it must have been the rabbit heart which caused it.
> 
> I hope that today will supply better weather for Meeko as well as an increased appetite.
> 
> love and positive vibes to all IBD kitties and slaves


Thanks Sylv  xx

Roman had a poo just before I left for work this morning, no shouting, just went straight in the tray :thumbup: it was better than it has been with shape  I'm thinking he shouts when it's going to be runny, no shouting when it's a bit better 

He seems to be enjoying the skippy, I will drop you a pm about some more 

Yes I've got to stop stressing as he's probably picking up on that. I'll see what this afternoon's vet visit brings.

Thanks for the tip on the soil  luckily I don't have any indoor plants, I'm going hold off on the soil for a bit, will pick up a bag if I need to when I'm next passing B&Q. I'll just fill the second tray when it arrived with the Oko and see how we go.

Fingers crossed for Dylan and better poo vibes for when he next goes.

I'll update later when we've been to the vets.


----------



## sarahecp

We've been to the vets, Roman couldn't have his vaccinations as he's still on steroids, it didn't flag on their system because they didn't prescribe them. So booked in for 2 weeks time. 

Wasn't a wasted journey though and I didn't have to pay  

My vet said to finish the course of Pred, as there doesn't seem to be an improvement and not to continue any longer, be fine not to wean him off as it's not a long term course only a 2 week. I mentioned the Chlorambucil, he doesn't think it will help, but if Patricia suggests for him to have then he won't go against her. I also mentioned the Bricanyl, he said we can stop them and if his asthma is affected we can start again. 

We spoke about food, told him I didn't agree with Patricia with chopping and changing and told him about the skippy, he said if it helps that's good. 

His weight was just a smidge under 6kg vet was happy with that and so was I  

With regards to insurance I've not made any claims for this apart from what Petplan have paid directly to Davies, but the young girl that does the admin and insurance took it upon herself to work out for me all I've paid out since January and it's £496  she got me to sign a claim form and she's going to post it on her way home tonight so it's in before Roman's new year starts on 21 Sept, how nice of her to do that, I will get her some flowers and choccies as a thank you .


----------



## nicolaa123

Hi, sorry for my absence, I got a 24hr bug and then back to work today  

Riley left me a lovely tray deposit..

Pleased to hear Dylan, Meeko and blue are all getting there!

Sarah, just a note, personally I would taper off the pred, that is what I have always been told, to go down to half then quarter then a quarter once a day, regardless of the dose. I would also give Patricia a call and ask her about this, it may not have been a long course but was a high dosage. 

Pleased to hear roman had a quiet poo


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Hi, sorry for my absence, I got a 24hr bug and then back to work today
> 
> Riley left me a lovely tray deposit..
> 
> Pleased to hear Dylan, Meeko and blue are all getting there!
> 
> Sarah, just a note, personally I would taper off the pred, that is what I have always been told, to go down to half then quarter then a quarter once a day, regardless of the dose. I would also give Patricia a call and ask her about this, it may not have been a long course but was a high dosage.
> 
> Pleased to hear roman had a quiet poo


Oh no poor you  hope you're feeling better now xx

I'd feel better about weaning him off rather than just stopping, I will call Patricia in the morning and ask her advice.

He's just had another quiet poo  it was a lot firmer and darker  I think the set food times are helping and he's not eating as much of the dry either, the skippy is really going down well, when he's finished it he meows for more, but I'm not giving anymore than a teaspoon.


----------



## sarahecp

I just had to say it's the best poo I've seen in a long time


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> Oh no poor you  hope you're feeling better now xx
> 
> I'd feel better about weaning him off rather than just stopping, I will call Patricia in the morning and ask her advice.
> 
> He's just had another quiet poo  it was a lot firmer and darker  I think the set food times are helping and he's not eating as much of the dry either, the skippy is really going down well, when he's finished it he meows for more, but I'm not giving anymore than a teaspoon.


Long may quiet poos carry on! Good news on the food front, it's tempting to give more but I think still best to carry on slowly slowly slowly...oh and celebrate each and every quiet poo..makes the noisey ones a little bit less stressful :huh:

Oh and I can't seem to "like" posts again..so I'm liking them in spirit


----------



## nicolaa123

sarahecp said:


> I just had to say it's the best poo I've seen in a long time


**raises glass to Romans poo ** :w00t:


----------



## sarahecp

nicolaa123 said:


> Long may quiet poos carry on! Good news on the food front, it's tempting to give more but I think still best to carry on slowly slowly slowly...oh and celebrate each and every quiet poo..makes the noisey ones a little bit less stressful :huh:
> 
> Oh and I can't seem to "like" posts again..so I'm liking them in spirit


I have been tempted to give more but I've been good and sticking to slowly slowly slowly 



nicolaa123 said:


> **raises glass to Romans poo ** :w00t:


I can't stop smiling   but don't want to get too excited!


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> **raises glass to Romans poo ** :w00t:


Glass raised here as well  Keep it up Roman.

Nicola, I'm sorry to hear that you've been poorly. Hope that you're feeling better now.

Dylan has definitely got over his temporary tummy problem. He's back to asking for food ever 15 minutes ( he's not getting it though). I'll be back to weighing his rabbit tomorrow.

Fingers crossed that Meeko, Riley and Blue are all " o k "


----------



## Forester

This is slightly off topic but posted by request. 

I was packing up some skippy for Roman this evening and Dylan seemed determined to be included in the parcel. Someone must have told him that the food is better at Sarah's


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Glass raised here as well  Keep it up Roman.
> 
> Nicola, I'm sorry to hear that you've been poorly. Hope that you're feeling better now.
> 
> Dylan has definitely got over his temporary tummy problem. He's back to asking for food ever 15 minutes ( he's not getting it though). I'll be back to weighing his rabbit tomorrow.
> 
> Fingers crossed that Meeko, Riley and Blue are all " o k "


I put a BIG smiley in the poo/food diary  

So pleased to hear Dylan is back to his usual self :thumbup:


----------



## nicolaa123

Forester said:


> This is slightly off topic but posted by request.
> 
> I was packing up some skippy for Roman this evening and Dylan seemed determined to be included in the parcel. Someone must have told him that the food is better at Sarah's


Can I have a Dylan parcel please :001_tt1::001_tt1:


----------



## Forester

nicolaa123 said:


> Can I have a Dylan parcel please :001_tt1::001_tt1:


Sorry, I need my alarm clock.

Sarah will , no doubt, be pleased that he wasn't included in her parcel. He's a noisy little horror at times


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> This is slightly off topic but posted by request.
> 
> I was packing up some skippy for Roman this evening and Dylan seemed determined to be included in the parcel. Someone must have told him that the food is better at Sarah's


Thank you  xx

The gorgeous Dylan :001_tt1: :001_tt1: can't wait for him to arrive


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Sorry, I need my alarm clock.
> 
> Sarah will , no doubt, be pleased that he wasn't included in her parcel. He's a noisy little horror at times


I thought he was included  

He can join my 3 at being noisy


----------



## buffie

Sheesh this thread has moved on quickly since I last looked :w00t:

Nicola ,hope you are feeling better and that Riley is continuing to present you with nice offerings.

Sarah excellent news on the poo front,paws crossed this is the kangaroo "doing its thing"

Forester glad to read that Dylan seems to have got over his dire rear 

Hope that Blue is fitting in somewhere here for the " good news" post 

Meeko is still "doing okay" I think allowing a small amount of dry is helping to keep is appetite for the wet food going 

Phew if I have forgotten to comment on something .............sorry


----------



## sarahecp

Hope everyone doing ok today 

I spoke to Patricia, she said reduce the Pred by half for 2 weeks and then to call her with an update. She said she'd been discussing Roman with one of her colleagues and they'd like another poo sample done to test again for TF. So need to collect a fresh sample and take straight to my vet, not sure how easy that's going to be as she said it has to be fresh! 

She asked about his diet, I explained what I'm doing with the set meal times and the skippy, and what he's poo's been like. She seemed a bit taken back by the kangaroo, and asked where it came from  

There were no poo's over night or by the time I'd left for work, Just got home for lunch to another goodish poo  

xx


----------



## Forester

sarahecp said:


> There were no poo's over night or by the time I'd left for work, Just got home for lunch to another goodish poo
> 
> xx


Well done , Roman.

It sounds as though you could be getting there , Sarah

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## sarahecp

Forester said:


> Well done , Roman.
> 
> It sounds as though you could be getting there , Sarah
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


I'm hoping so but not getting my hopes up just yet, though I do want to shout with excitment


----------



## Tom&Lou

Hi there. Bummer, IBD is no picnic. I've taken a cat home from the vet clinic I work in after she was demoted from free-ranging the clinic to locked in a cage because of her constant diarrhea accidents. She was brought there over a year ago to be euthanised for this issue, and the vet wouldn't do it because she was such a sweet little cat. So she took her in an tried some of the usual things: comprehensive fecal tests, bland diet, prednisone, even buprenorphine as pain management and a stopper-upper. She would have a very occasional soft-like-toothpaste stool but mostly it was liquid spatter. Also her pinnae (ear tips) had become quite yellowish and kind of crinkly, vasculitis. We suspected liver failure, after all of her issues and weight loss while on steroids long term. I decided to take her home to let her die as someone's cat, instead of locked up in a clinic. 
Once I got her to my house, I started her on raw food (a balanced formula by a local outfit) and made a point to exclude chicken, as it's such a common allergen to cats and dogs. I began tapering her off of the prednisone. I started giving fluids under the skin every other day (all that diarrhea dehydrates them, no question) with a weekly B12 injection (common deficiency with IBD). I added digestive enzymes (porcine) to her food, and a powder supplement called Perfect Form (papaya leaf, plantain leaf, slippery elm, pumpkin seed, papain, fennel), and probiotics. 
She had her first soft-but-formed stool a week and a half later. I continued tapering down the pred. Started weaning off buprenorphine. It's a little over a month in now, and my coworkers are being good sports about all the photos of perfect poop.
The cat has had probably 90% perfect normal stools for the last 3 weeks, she's gaining weight, bright, alert, and active. She's been completely off the pred for a week. Her ears aren't crinkly anymore, and they're more pink than yellow. 
So, go figure! I took her home to die, and thought I'd try and make her a little more comfortable while she was there. 
I worked as a nurse in a more naturopathic vet clinic a while ago, and heard them say a lot that raw food is the least inflammatory thing a cat could eat. It was worth a shot, and for this one, seems to be working. 
Anyway good luck 



nicolaa123 said:


> My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.
> 
> I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.
> 
> As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.
> 
> I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??
> 
> Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.
> 
> Thanks..


----------



## nicolaa123

So many of these pages are missing


----------



## bcats

nicolaa123 said:


> ....still waiting....however came across this Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment very interesting..


Very helpful link. My cat diagnosed with colitis. No tests done yet as vet has suggested a bland diet for a week so I have found this information very helpful. I have just put a chicken thigh on the hob to make some broth. Hoping finicky madam will eat it. Thanks for the link


----------



## Ashley Smith

Hey everyone, first time post. 

My cat Pepper is 5 years old and potentially suffering from IBD. We haven't ran a biopsy yet due to possible risks involved but he has been on Hills Prescription Z/D now for around 7 weeks and his diarrhea has not changed at all but he has gained a little bit of weight (probably due to the hydrolyzed property). A couple of days ago he stopped eating the Z/D for around 2 days and was getting very hungry but just refusing to eat. Knowing we had to do something I consulted a sheet my vet gave me on different feline diet foods, we tried James Wellbeloved Grain free cat (Lamb) and in 2 days his diarrhea had all but gone but we noticed that he was pretty much constantly hungry so it seems he wasn't absorbing the food properly. We switched back over to the Z/D but again his diarrhea came back but he seemed to be no longer hungry. 

The vets are saying that if his diarrhea isn't going on the Z/D then there is no way any other food would do any better but as right now the James Wellbeloved seem to of done something. (although the vets don't yet know we tried him on the James Wellbeloved). So I was thinking of trying the Hills D/D Venison & Green Pea and see if that helps his diarrhea, if not I was thinking Royal Canin (Hypoallergenic or Sensitivity Control duck & rice) since I've read a lot of positive reviews on Royal Canin about getting rid of cats with IBD diarrhea.

Vets are pushing the biopsy because I guess they want to know if we are dealing with IBD or cancer but I want to try a couple of foods first to see if anything works. Has anyone else had this experience with Z/D not working but other foods working. Even though according to the vets if Z/D doesn't work nothing will. 

Thanks.


----------



## bcats

Has your vet had your cats pooh checked. My last cat had a similar problem after a specimen was sent to a laboratory it turned out that she had Tritrichomonas which is treatable now with antibiotics. The cat I have now has never had diarrhea. She has been suffering for months from passing blood after her pooh. I have had to change her diet. My cat won't eat Royal Canin Sensitivity control I have been told it is very good. I have had advice from a member of the the forum. I now feed my cat on Catz Finefood Purrr Kangaroo from Zooplus . She has been having this for three weeks now and I am very gradually introducing her to some of there other recipes. The Purrr is a single protein food so you will easily find out what your cat may be allergic to. A lot of these problems are caused by all the rubbish they put into pet foods now. Even some that are recommended by vets. Kibble is one of the worst offenders because of the way it's processed. Lots of information on line about this. I prefer wet foods with high meat content. I'm afraid I disagree with your vet saying if it hasn't cleared up with the Z/D nothing will work. If you do change your cats food do it very gradually. My vet recommended I put my cat on a very bland diet for six days then very gradually introduce new food a small amount at a time in a separate bowl. You should be able to tell what is upsetting her. I gave her fish not the best but it was all fussy madam would eat. If you look on the forum for blood after passing a pooh you will see all the advice I have been given. If this has gone on for a while then tests would obviously be the next step especially having her pooh checked. I am sure you will be given some valuable advice from the forum. By the way my cat is fine now everything normal Good luck.


----------



## bcats

bcats said:


> Has your vet had your cats pooh checked. My last cat had a similar problem after a specimen was sent to a laboratory it turned out that she had Tritrichomonas which is treatable now with antibiotics. The cat I have now has never had diarrhea. She has been suffering for months from passing blood after her pooh. I have had to change her diet. My cat won't eat Royal Canin Sensitivity control I have been told it is very good. I have had advice from a member of the the forum. I now feed my cat on Catz Finefood Purrr Kangaroo from Zooplus . She has been having this for three weeks now and I am very gradually introducing her to some of there other recipes. The Purrr is a single protein food so you will easily find out what your cat may be allergic to. A lot of these problems are caused by all the rubbish they put into pet foods now. Even some that are recommended by vets. Kibble is one of the worst offenders because of the way it's processed. Lots of information on line about this. I prefer wet foods with high meat content. I'm afraid I disagree with your vet saying if it hasn't cleared up with the Z/D nothing will work. If you do change your cats food do it very gradually. My vet recommended I put my cat on a very bland diet for six days then very gradually introduce new food a small amount at a time in a separate bowl. You should be able to tell what is upsetting her. I gave her fish not the best but it was all fussy madam would eat. If you look on the forum for blood after passing a pooh you will see all the advice I have been given. If this has gone on for a while then tests would obviously be the next step especially having her pooh checked. I am sure you will be given some valuable advice from the forum. By the way my cat is fine now everything normal Good luck.


PS I have just checked out Z/D. It has Maize in it. Keep your cat off all grains. Some cats are very allergic to grain some. Keep to Grain Free.


----------



## Ashley Smith

Thank you for the reply bcats, I will certainly talk about a possible test for Tritrichomonoas and I have bookmarked the Catz Finefood zooplus page for future reference to food. Other food I was thinking was Grau if anyone has had any luck with that.

Is it at all possible that my cat although eating wet food cannot process and therefore not feel 'full' after a meal and that is why he always seems to want more food? Or is he just being greedy? On the Z/D dried food he seems happy and sleeps through the night but on the James Wellbeloved wet food he came in each night at 3am wanting more food and always hanging around for more which made me think he just wasn't getting what he needs from the food even though the diarrhea had calmed down on the James Wellbeloved. So I'm dubious to put him on other wet foods in case I see the same thing (Hopefully I explained it okay, basically is it possible for my cat to not get any nutrition from his food or gain weight if it isn't hydrolyzed

Also I just checked your new message and is that why the James Wellbeloved possibly worked so well then because it was grain free? It is something stupid as grain thats been the problem?

PS also I checked but could you check that Hills D/D doesnt contain grain too? It doesn't look like it does. 
Thanks!


----------



## bcats

Ashley Smith said:


> Thank you for the reply bcats, I will certainly talk about a possible test for Tritrichomonoas and I have bookmarked the Catz Finefood zooplus page for future reference to food. Other food I was thinking was Grau if anyone has had any luck with that.
> 
> Is it at all possible that my cat although eating wet food cannot process and therefore not feel 'full' after a meal and that is why he always seems to want more food? Or is he just being greedy? On the Z/D dried food he seems happy and sleeps through the night but on the James Wellbeloved wet food he came in each night at 3am wanting more food and always hanging around for more which made me think he just wasn't getting what he needs from the food even though the diarrhea had calmed down on the James Wellbeloved. So I'm dubious to put him on other wet foods in case I see the same thing (Hopefully I explained it okay, basically is it possible for my cat to not get any nutrition from his food or gain weight if it isn't hydrolyzed
> 
> Also I just checked your new message and is that why the James Wellbeloved possibly worked so well then because it was grain free? It is something stupid as grain thats been the problem?
> 
> PS also I checked but could you check that Hills D/D doesnt contain grain too? It doesn't look like it does.
> Thanks!


Hi. I am no expert on cat nutrition. I speak only from my experience. Has your cat been wormed that was the first thing I did. Also has he had blood tests? Re Tritrichomonas. The symptoms my other cat had was diarrhea. Her motions started off normal but ended up with diarrhea. She had no other symptoms and other than the diarrhea behaved normally. This I have been told is often the case with Tritrichomonas. There is a special pooh test they do for that. If you do decide to have it done make sure you have that special test. It sounds from what you have said that your cat has had no pooh tests done. That was the first action by my vet to rule out any bugs in his gut . I would suggest that you put him onto probiotics if you have not already done so. I would be most surprised if your vet has not given you something for his diarrhea. My cat was given Fortiflora another remedy was Protexin Pro kolin. This will only settle the problem. I think they both have probiotics in them?. I always use Protexin Synbiotic. This is a pre and probiotic. I gave it every day to my cat with the Tritrichomonas. Looks like D/D has no grains. Grain in pet food causes digestive and skin problems if they are allergic which many of them are. James Welbeloved is good it was bought out by Royal Canin years ago. I believe they still keep to the original recipe which has rice in it I think. My cat is well satisfied with the pouches they are high in protein and very nutritious. Cats are obligate carnivores. They need food with a high meat content. As I said I am not an expert. Have a look at the Cat Nutrition link on this forum. Lot's of advice there. That's what I did. There's also There are members on there with far more experience than I have
Re the test for Tritrichomonas. I think it's a day using PCR ? Make sure you get the correct one done. .


----------



## Ashley Smith

He has had a poo test done around 8 weeks ago and nothing came back from that, it was done as part of the tests leading up to this eventually being suspected IBD. Pepper was put on metronidazole and the Hills Z/D which although never got rid of his diarrhea did improve himself and he started to gain weight and stopped vomiting so now we're just looking at trying to control the diarrhea. 
Pepper didn't take much we think to the metronidazole after around 2 weeks he had a toxicity problem and we reduced the dose but we always seemed to have a few problems so he's currently not on any medication after around 7 weeks of being on meds.
He is on weekly vitamin B12 at the moment because the original blood tests showed low B12 but otherwise his blood tests around 2 weeks ago showed everything was normal. It does just seem like the only symptom left is the diarrhea and we just need to find a right food then keep monitoring him for any future issues.


----------



## bcats

Ashley Smith said:


> He has had a poo test done around 8 weeks ago and nothing came back from that, it was done as part of the tests leading up to this eventually being suspected IBD. Pepper was put on metronidazole and the Hills Z/D which although never got rid of his diarrhea did improve himself and he started to gain weight and stopped vomiting so now we're just looking at trying to control the diarrhea.
> Pepper didn't take much we think to the metronidazole after around 2 weeks he had a toxicity problem and we reduced the dose but we always seemed to have a few problems so he's currently not on any medication after around 7 weeks of being on meds.
> He is on weekly vitamin B12 at the moment because the original blood tests showed low B12 but otherwise his blood tests around 2 weeks ago showed everything was normal. It does just seem like the only symptom left is the diarrhea and we just need to find a right food then keep monitoring him for any future issues.


Re the Tritrichomonas test. I've just looked at my previous reply. It should read DNA PCR. This predicted texting Hopefully he has not got Tritrichomonas its a real problem getting rid of. I eventually took my cat to Potters Bar Herts. Richard Allport homeopathic vet. He sorted it out. Good job I'm insured. Sounds like it could be food allergy. I put my girl on just fish (chicken can be used with a little white rice that has been simmered in plenty of water for for longer than stated on package to make sure its very soft, say squashable ) this will fill him up. Rice can be added to fish. Start to introduce a little new food over next week or so and keep a diary. If you introduce one thing at a time you will be able to see if there is an allergy problem. It takes time but well worth while. Remember keep him off grains. Quite a lot out there now. Keep me in touch.


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## TriTri

Hi there, din’t Know if this helps: I took on a dumped cat 3 years ago with very bad sickness and diarrhoea and she has been attending the vet at least once a month ever since. There have been various tests and medications. I was told at first probably Giarda but tests eventually showed it wasn’t. Tests were done & I was then told it was probably colitis. Then tests showed it was/is pancreatitis. Since Was also diagnosed with thyroid disorder after her back legs went with a seizure and then more other seizures, and also diagnosed with some kidney damage to one kidney. It has been a long journey but she is a very happy cat & adorable. She had a very low level of B12 and has been having monthly B12 injections for well over a year now. She has had her Prednisolone reduced and has thyroid medication- Felimazole. She was given pancreatic enzymes to add to her food, but eventually refused all food with the enzymes on. They did help her. Her diet has been key and any changes are very bad for her. She has done well on felix fish in jelly but not the tuna flavour. She has done well on roast chicken. She is now doing well on whiskas 7+ pouches, fish (jelly or gravy). She loves liver but I don’t allow her much. She is also currently eating Perfect Fit salmon flavour biscuits. She is still tiny, but rarely sick. Her stools are usually firm BUT she still has blood in her poo about twice a week and the vet says that this may not change. Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


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## bcats

TriTri said:


> Hi there, din't Know if this helps: I took on a dumped cat 3 years ago with very bad sickness and diarrhoea and she has been attending the vet at least once a month ever since. There have been various tests and medications. I was told at first probably Giarda but tests eventually showed it wasn't. Tests were done & I was then told it was probably colitis. Then tests showed it was/is pancreatitis. Since Was also diagnosed with thyroid disorder after her back legs went with a seizure and then more other seizures, and also diagnosed with some kidney damage to one kidney. It has been a long journey but she is a very happy cat & adorable. She had a very low level of B12 and has been having monthly B12 injections for well over a year now. She has had her Prednisolone reduced and has thyroid medication- Felimazole. She was given pancreatic enzymes to add to her food, but eventually refused all food with the enzymes on. They did help her. Her diet has been key and any changes are very bad for her. She has done well on felix fish in jelly but not the tuna flavour. She has done well on roast chicken. She is now doing well on whiskas 7+ pouches, fish (jelly or gravy). She loves liver but I don't allow her much. She is also currently eating Perfect Fit salmon flavour biscuits. She is still tiny, but rarely sick. Her stools are usually firm BUT she still has blood in her poo about twice a week and the vet says that this may not change. Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


If you read my posts you will see that my cat had the same problem. I took advice from Chillminx and changed her diet. All is well now although I have to be careful what I give her. I had to stop foods you mentioned above. Poppy was obviously allergic to the ingredients. I started her on Catz Purrr fine foods Kangaroo. This is very gentle on the digestive track and is a mono protein. Within a few days of her having this excellent cat food the bleeding stopped. Stools are also a normal size and she goes everyday instead of every three to four days. She had a little bout of diarrhea two days ago with a little blood. This was because I gave Poppy too many much raw calves liver. I only give her very little calves liver once a week as a treat. I fed her on freshly cooked fish for 24hrs and all is back to normal. I would suggest that you take your cat off all the food you mentioned above as they are full of colourings, flavor enhancers and surprisingly sugars. Also grains. Cats are carnivores don't need grains to survive and many cats are allergic to them. Poppy is an extremely fussy madam so it has taken a few months to get her onto a good diet. This is what I give Poppy now.
Catz Finefood Purrr Kangaroo pouches 
Granatapet the mono protein Chicken, Veal or Turkey. Pouches 
RAW chicken necks twice a week for her teeth. She loves these. 
Raw calves liver. A very small thin slice once a week. Next week I'm going to try her on raw chicken giblets to replace the calves liver I have had to order these from my butcher. 
This diet I find suits Poppy but every cat is different. If you do decide to try what I suggest do it very gradually over a week. 
I buy all the food from Zooplus who have a return policy and will refund you for any food your cat will not eat. You can also get Catz Purrr from Zoo-Bio but carriage is costly. If you are in the uk Zooplus charges £2.99 for orders under £29. There is also a company in the UK who will send you a variety of your choice. They don't stock the Catz. I cant remember there name. I will look it up for you if you want me to. 
I hope the above information will help. Best wishes Barbara


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## TriTri

bcats said:


> If you read my posts you will see that my cat had the same problem. I took advice from Chillminx and changed her diet. All is well now although I have to be careful what I give her. I had to stop foods you mentioned above. Poppy was obviously allergic to the ingredients. I started her on Catz Purrr fine foods Kangaroo. This is very gentle on the digestive track and is a mono protein. Within a few days of her having this excellent cat food the bleeding stopped. Stools are also a normal size and she goes everyday instead of every three to four days. She had a little bout of diarrhea two days ago with a little blood. This was because I gave Poppy too many much raw calves liver. I only give her very little calves liver once a week as a treat. I fed her on freshly cooked fish for 24hrs and all is back to normal. I would suggest that you take your cat off all the food you mentioned above as they are full of colourings, flavor enhancers and surprisingly sugars. Also grains. Cats are carnivores don't need grains to survive and many cats are allergic to them. Poppy is an extremely fussy madam so it has taken a few months to get her onto a good diet. This is what I give Poppy now.
> Catz Finefood Purrr Kangaroo pouches
> Granatapet the mono protein Chicken, Veal or Turkey. Pouches
> RAW chicken necks twice a week for her teeth. She loves these.
> Raw calves liver. A very small thin slice once a week. Next week I'm going to try her on raw chicken giblets to replace the calves liver I have had to order these from my butcher.
> This diet I find suits Poppy but every cat is different. If you do decide to try what I suggest do it very gradually over a week.
> I buy all the food from Zooplus who have a return policy and will refund you for any food your cat will not eat. You can also get Catz Purrr from Zoo-Bio but carriage is costly. If you are in the uk Zooplus charges £2.99 for orders under £29. There is also a company in the UK who will send you a variety of your choice. They don't stock the Catz. I cant remember there name. I will look it up for you if you want me to.
> I hope the above information will help. Best wishes Barbara


Hi Barbara, thank you so much for your helpful reply. I was thinking there must be an answer to her problem and your advice sounds very promising. I am new to this forum, but have read several threads from Chillminx and Chillminx is always spot on, so I am hopeful. 'Will be putting an order in tomorrow and 'will introduce the food gradually, as you recommended. I will let you know how my sweet cat gets on. If I have had her 3 years now, and a vet suggested that because she has a thyroid disorder, she must be at least 12, I wonder how many years she has been suffering for. Her flu vaccination is due in a few weeks time, do you know of any reason for her not to have it? Any other info you can give me will be much appreciated, but fingers crossed that this will stop the bleeding. Poor Tessy2shoes!


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## bcats

TriTri said:


> Hi Barbara, thank you so much for your helpful reply. I was thinking there must be an answer to her problem and your advice sounds very promising. I am new to this forum, but have read several threads from Chillminx and Chillminx is always spot on, so I am hopeful. 'Will be putting an order in tomorrow and 'will introduce the food gradually, as you recommended. I will let you know how my sweet cat gets on. If I have had her 3 years now, and a vet suggested that because she has a thyroid disorder, she must be at least 12, I wonder how many years she has been suffering for. Her flu vaccination is due in a few weeks time, do you know of any reason for her not to have it? Any other info you can give me will be much appreciated, but fingers crossed that this will stop the bleeding. Poor Tessy2shoes!


Fingers crossed that this helps. Your little cat has a lot of problems. Sure that the change in diet will help. Regarding her vaccination. I had a cat for many years with a condition called Myelodisplasia which is a lack of white blood cells in the bone marrow. I took her to a homeopathic vet who advised not to have her vaccinations. He put her on a remedy called Combination Nosodes. Cleo was allowed outdoors which at the time worried me because of the risk of picking up infections. She lived until 16years and no vet visits other than the homeopathic vet which was once a year. The other remedy he gave her was China which works better than Echinasia. He prescribed the soft form of pill that dissolved in her mouth, very easy to administer, she was never allowed to go to a cattery. This was no problem as we had a pet sitter. Are you based in the UK?. I went to Richard Allport in Potters Bar Hertfordshire. There are plenty of homeopathic vets around. You can get lists on line from the homeopathic associations. Make sure that you choose a vet that has completed the full course and taken the exam. If l had a choice I would never have my cat vaccinated unfortunately now we no longer have our pet sitter so have to resort to a local cattery. We had insurance which paid for most of the treatment. Please let me know how you get on. If you wish you can private message me by the envelope above. I am a great believer in homeopathy. My last cat had Tritrichomonas which was again treated successfully with homeopathy.


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## bcats

bcats said:


> Fingers crossed that this helps. Your little cat has a lot of problems. Sure that the change in diet will help. Regarding her vaccination. I had a cat for many years with a condition called Myelodisplasia which is a lack of white blood cells in the bone marrow. I took her to a homeopathic vet who advised not to have her vaccinations. He put her on a remedy called Combination Nosodes. Cleo was allowed outdoors which at the time worried me because of the risk of picking up infections. She lived until 16years and no vet visits other than the homeopathic vet which was once a year. The other remedy he gave her was China which works better than Echinasia. He prescribed the soft form of pill that dissolved in her mouth, very easy to administer, she was never allowed to go to a cattery. This was no problem as we had a pet sitter. Are you based in the UK?. I went to Richard Allport in Potters Bar Hertfordshire. There are plenty of homeopathic vets around. You can get lists on line from the homeopathic associations. Make sure that you choose a vet that has completed the full course and taken the exam. If l had a choice I would never have my cat vaccinated unfortunately now we no longer have our pet sitter so have to resort to a local cattery. We had insurance which paid for most of the treatment. Please let me know how you get on. If you wish you can private message me by the envelope above. I am a great believer in homeopathy. My last cat had Tritrichomonas which was again treated successfully with homeopathy.


P S. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. She is extremely helpful. Mention my name if you like. I am still in touch via PM to report the progress of Poppy.


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## bcats

bcats said:


> P S. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. She is extremely helpful. Mention my name if you like. I am still in touch via PM to report the progress of Poppy.


PS I also suggest that you take her off all Kibble. Contains loads of rubbish even the variety that is grain free. It's the way it's produced that makes it so bad for cats. Plenty of info on line about the cons of kibble.They say a cat needs it to keep teeth healthy. This has now been proved as rubbish. With good food the plaque will not form. A Raw chicken wing or neck 2 X weekly will prevent this. I would not start that until her digestion has settled.


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## TriTri

Hi bcats
Thanks again & sorry for the late reply. I managed to order both types of cat good in all the flavours you suggested and also a cat climbing tree at the same time! It’s all due to be delivered no later than Friday, so I will start to gradually introduce it into her diet and hopefully do away with her current diet, all being well. Poor Tessy was sick this morning after eating, but otherwise ok today. When I first took her to the vet 3 years ago, he also said she must have had a bang to the head at some stage because her pupils don’t contract ... (contract? Don’t get smaller). I took on another cat with the same eye condition previously but the previous owner said he was born with it. I will let you know how she gets on anyway & using the private messaging, thank you. I will later try your other suggestions as well, chicken necks for her teeth etc and she loves liver. The homeopathy sounds good too. I do live in the UK, but Tessy doesn’t like traveling far in the car. Chillminx definitely knows her stuff, so if we can’t find an answer, yes will then try Chillminx.


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## bcats

TriTri said:


> Hi bcats
> Thanks again & sorry for the late reply. I managed to order both types of cat good in all the flavours you suggested and also a cat climbing tree at the same time! It's all due to be delivered no later than Friday, so I will start to gradually introduce it into her diet and hopefully do away with her current diet, all being well. Poor Tessy was sick this morning after eating, but otherwise ok today. When I first took her to the vet 3 years ago, he also said she must have had a bang to the head at some stage because her pupils don't contract ... (contract? Don't get smaller). I took on another cat with the same eye condition previously but the previous owner said he was born with it. I will let you know how she gets on anyway & using the private messaging, thank you. I will later try your other suggestions as well, chicken necks for her teeth etc and she loves liver. The homeopathy sounds good too. I do live in the UK, but Tessy doesn't like traveling far in the car. Chillminx definitely knows her stuff, so if we can't find an answer, yes will then try Chillminx.


Be very careful with the liver. It can sometimes make poppy a bit loose. I only give it as a treat once a week a very small slither about one by two inches. Uncooked chicken wings are good but remove any skin or fat. Let her tummy settle down before you give her those. I would start her on the Kangaroo. That is very gentle on the digestion. Full of all the nutrients she needs. Chillminx advised me one meat at a time for a few day. That way you will see if she is allergic to any meat. If she is ok on the Kangaroo then you can do the same with another variety. Re Richard Allport. He will do a phone consultation. He books an appointment to call you. I used this method many times. You need to get your vet to give you a letter of referral. Richard I think will then send you a lengthy form to fill in asking you for details of the cats health. Questions like " does your cat like hot or cold. " may seem strange questions but very important in homeopathy because they are treating the animals as well as the condition. Your poor little girl has a lot of problems. A better diet should help. You will have to be very patient as it will take some time. Almost a year with Poppy because I couldn't find a food she would eat. She was very addicted to Whiskers. They add flavourings to make cats eat it as do many of the cheap brands. Please let me know if she accepts the Kangaroo.


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## Burmese Boy

Hi I am not replying to your post. I am new to the site and asked for some help with my IBD boy. My post is in Introductions and don’t know how to get it in the IBD thread.


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## TriTri

Hi Burmese Boy I have copied and pasted your enquiry below so any replies need to be typed below & you will need check here for replies I guess. 

Hello, I am new to this site, I found it by accident. Briefly I have a small Burmese cat. He has had runny poo for a while not sure how long as he goes out. But I noticed he was getting really bad flatulence. I think the problem started a couple of years ago when his cat food brand was discontinued and they re- invented it containing vegetables! So the flatulence started and I did my dance with trying to find another reasonable food that he did not reject after a while, or did not cause flatulence or would eat. He could eat a food for a few months then reject and as I have 2 Burmese that was double trouble. 

Anyway to cut a long story short, it became so bad that I could not even have him on my lap anymore and he is a lap cat. So off to vets diahorrea ( if that’s how you spell it) and flatulence only symptoms. So vet had 3 day poo sample, whichcame back ok for parasites and various other things they look for in these cases. Then gave a 10 day course on Metroniadozole, nightmare it’s awful stuff. The squits continued and in themeantime I had ordered Royal Canin Sensitive. Mika also had allergy tests and blood tests toinclude liver, kidneys and pancreatitis. The latter were ok but found out he was allergic to pork, fish, venison, oats and sugar beet.

Another trip to vets who gave long lasting steroid injection as he suspected IBD. Unfortunately 4 days after the steroid injection which appeared to give him loads of energy he went missing. Totally out of character for him and it was a nightmare 15 days of moving heaven and earth to try and find him. Then by some miracle he was spotted in a road 3 blocks back. He was like a little skeleton and obviously had eaten very little. I suspect he was locked in a shed or garage. He had lost 25% of body weight and only weighed 3.7 kgsbeforehand.

I went cold turkey on the Royal Canin as lesser of 2 evils with all the discovered allergies.He had had solid poo for 4 days since being found but after 2 days blood appeared (a first). Back to vets for another steroid injection. Vet not overly worried saying he could have been scavenging anything to survive. Over a couple of more weeks the squits did not improve and the flatulence came back and I was not sure about RC because of the rice, fish oil and sugars. So tried Cheshire Cat transitioning over a week flatulence subsided but squits continued. Having found your site I started looking at a novel diet and got Catz Kangaroo.

I have had to go back to the vet because he has had a few skin lumps come up they are like little scabby lumps. Vet does not know thinks could be bacterial, or more allergies. He has given a months supply of 5 mg steroid tabs 1 a day. He thinks gut biopsies necessary to rule out Lymphoma. I am not keen on this, it’s so invasive if it’s IBD. He has been on a mix of Kangaroo and Cheshire Cat senior chicken for 3 days and whilst he still has the squits there is no flatulence. I was wondering if anyone has had gut biopsies and how they went.? Since being found he hasmanaged to put on 1/2 a kg. Thanks Bernese Boy


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## bcats

TriTri said:


> Hi Burmese Boy I have copied and pasted your enquiry below so any replies need to be typed below & you will need check here for replies I guess.
> 
> Hello, I am new to this site, I found it by accident. Briefly I have a small Burmese cat. He has had runny poo for a while not sure how long as he goes out. But I noticed he was getting really bad flatulence. I think the problem started a couple of years ago when his cat food brand was discontinued and they re- invented it containing vegetables! So the flatulence started and I did my dance with trying to find another reasonable food that he did not reject after a while, or did not cause flatulence or would eat. He could eat a food for a few months then reject and as I have 2 Burmese that was double trouble.
> 
> Anyway to cut a long story short, it became so bad that I could not even have him on my lap anymore and he is a lap cat. So off to vets diahorrea ( if that's how you spell it) and flatulence only symptoms. So vet had 3 day poo sample, whichcame back ok for parasites and various other things they look for in these cases. Then gave a 10 day course on Metroniadozole, nightmare it's awful stuff. The squits continued and in themeantime I had ordered Royal Canin Sensitive. Mika also had allergy tests and blood tests toinclude liver, kidneys and pancreatitis. The latter were ok but found out he was allergic to pork, fish, venison, oats and sugar beet.
> 
> Another trip to vets who gave long lasting steroid injection as he suspected IBD. Unfortunately 4 days after the steroid injection which appeared to give him loads of energy he went missing. Totally out of character for him and it was a nightmare 15 days of moving heaven and earth to try and find him. Then by some miracle he was spotted in a road 3 blocks back. He was like a little skeleton and obviously had eaten very little. I suspect he was locked in a shed or garage. He had lost 25% of body weight and only weighed 3.7 kgsbeforehand.
> 
> I went cold turkey on the Royal Canin as lesser of 2 evils with all the discovered allergies.He had had solid poo for 4 days since being found but after 2 days blood appeared (a first). Back to vets for another steroid injection. Vet not overly worried saying he could have been scavenging anything to survive. Over a couple of more weeks the squits did not improve and the flatulence came back and I was not sure about RC because of the rice, fish oil and sugars. So tried Cheshire Cat transitioning over a week flatulence subsided but squits continued. Having found your site I started looking at a novel diet and got Catz Kangaroo.
> 
> I have had to go back to the vet because he has had a few skin lumps come up they are like little scabby lumps. Vet does not know thinks could be bacterial, or more allergies. He has given a months supply of 5 mg steroid tabs 1 a day. He thinks gut biopsies necessary to rule out Lymphoma. I am not keen on this, it's so invasive if it's IBD. He has been on a mix of Kangaroo and Cheshire Cat senior chicken for 3 days and whilst he still has the squits there is no flatulence. I was wondering if anyone has had gut biopsies and how they went.? Since being found he hasmanaged to put on 1/2 a kg. Thanks Bernese Boy


Hi Burmese boy. Your poor little cat is certainly going through it. From what you say it looks very much like a food sensitivity to me. The fact that he had no diarrhea after being missing for so long, (thats 
if I have read it right) tells me because he had been starved and not given his usual food his digestion settled down some what. The Kangaroo is excellent for this problem it would be a good thing to continue with it. If you read my post above you will see how I went about introducing single protein food to Poppy. It will take time. You have to be careful to introduce slowly. While I was making the introduction I gave her cooked coley. I know they say that too much fish is not good but it is very gentle on the digestion and wont

harm on a short term basis. My vet was in agreement with this. Something I forgot to say was that during that time I gave Poppy Protexin Synbiotic DC. This is a Pre and Probiotic which is very good for the gut. Probiotic feeds on Prebiotic. Because of your cats serious gut problems he will have very little if not any in his system. This needs to be restored for him to recover. They come in capsule form which you can open and mix in with the food. I gave Poppy one a day am for a few months until her symptoms subsided. You can Google this product and it will tell you how it works. Keep on with the single protein. I have been told by a cat breeder that some cats are allergic to Chicken. Don't have this problem with Poppy but it maybe worth taking it into consideration at this stage. Gut biopsy I have never had done. It will be very expensive and invasive. I still occasionally give Poppy the Synbiotic when she occasionally has soft poo which I have found is caused by raw liver which I have been giving her once a week as a treat . It only happens if she has too much. A bit rich for her so will be stopping that and giving her Catz Finefood treats which are dried meat you will find them in Zooplus in the cat treat section. I hope this has helped. I am not an expert. Only telling you how I resolved Poppy's digestive problem. Good luck and please keep in touch.


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## baubbles

This is such a thorough thread it's help me a lot so thanks to everyone.


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## Burmese Boy

bcats said:


> Hi Burmese boy. Your poor little cat is certainly going through it. From what you say it looks very much like a food sensitivity to me. The fact that he had no diarrhea after being missing for so long, (thats
> if I have read it right) tells me because he had been starved and not given his usual food his digestion settled down some what. The Kangaroo is excellent for this problem it would be a good thing to continue with it. If you read my post above you will see how I went about introducing single protein food to Poppy. It will take time. You have to be careful to introduce slowly. While I was making the introduction I gave her cooked coley. I know they say that too much fish is not good but it is very gentle on the digestion and wont
> 
> harm on a short term basis. My vet was in agreement with this. Something I forgot to say was that during that time I gave Poppy Protexin Synbiotic DC. This is a Pre and Probiotic which is very good for the gut. Probiotic feeds on Prebiotic. Because of your cats serious gut problems he will have very little if not any in his system. This needs to be restored for him to recover. They come in capsule form which you can open and mix in with the food. I gave Poppy one a day am for a few months until her symptoms subsided. You can Google this product and it will tell you how it works. Keep on with the single protein. I have been told by a cat breeder that some cats are allergic to Chicken. Don't have this problem with Poppy but it maybe worth taking it into consideration at this stage. Gut biopsy I have never had done. It will be very expensive and invasive. I still occasionally give Poppy the Synbiotic when she occasionally has soft poo which I have found is caused by raw liver which I have been giving her once a week as a treat . It only happens if she has too much. A bit rich for her so will be stopping that and giving her Catz Finefood treats which are dried meat you will find them in Zooplus in the cat treat section. I hope this has helped. I am not an expert. Only telling you how I resolved Poppy's digestive problem. Good luck and please keep in touch.


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## Burmese Boy

Hello, thank you for putting my post on the IBD thread, l have not had any other replies yet, he is still on the kangaroo which is being mixed with Cheshire Cat senior chicken, it’s been about 4 days now and he is still not doing solid poo. Although he has lost the flatulence which he could clear the room with. The vet said he had solid poo after being found because of dehydration. Who knows?

I suspect that he may also be allergic to chicken or maybe his digestive system is so shot it will take a really long time to sort out. I will get some of the probiotics that you suggested. I can’t give him poached fish unfortunately as he is allergic to it. I have scoured Zooplus and Happy Kitty looking for other food pure rabbit or maybe goat something I have never had before. Maybe horse but I can’t find anything. I tried to get him interested in the Natures Menu raw but no chance. I need to do another 10 days of mixing before I can eliminate the Cheshire Cat. So onwards and upwards hopefully. At least I can get the steroid pills down him now. He had such a bad time with the Metro that he gets really agitated and scared with medication being given.


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## TriTri

Burmese Boy said:


> Hello, thank you for putting my post on the IBD thread, l have not had any other replies yet, he is still on the kangaroo which is being mixed with Cheshire Cat senior chicken, it's been about 4 days now and he is still not doing solid poo. Although he has lost the flatulence which he could clear the room with. The vet said he had solid poo after being found because of dehydration. Who knows?
> 
> I suspect that he may also be allergic to chicken or maybe his digestive system is so shot it will take a really long time to sort out. I will get some of the probiotics that you suggested. I can't give him poached fish unfortunately as he is allergic to it. I have scoured Zooplus and Happy Kitty looking for other food pure rabbit or maybe goat something I have never had before. Maybe horse but I can't find anything. I tried to get him interested in the Natures Menu raw but no chance. I need to do another 10 days of mixing before I can eliminate the Cheshire Cat. So onwards and upwards hopefully. At least I can get the steroid pills down him now. He had such a bad time with the Metro that he gets really agitated and scared with medication being given.


Hi Bernese Boy, I don't know if you have read my thread re the cat I picked up 3 years ago starving & with very bad sickness and diahorrea and a gurgling stumoche for a very long time on and off and some blood in her faeces? She was found to have pancreatitis and extremely low levels of B12. (Also problems with one kidney and thyroid disorder). She is tiny at 3.115 kilos. Sounds to me like your cat may have IBD such as colitis. Have they checked his B12 levels? Was he checked for Giarrda which they said to me had same symptonsas IBD? Can they feel any lumps? My cat had overcome her sickness and diahorrea by remaining on certain same foods long term, but I wanted to rid the blood on the faeces & tried gradually introducing the kangaroo just over a week ago, but it brought back the sickness and diahorrea, so then tried introducing a tiny amount of turkey Granatapet, but that has done the same. My cat had probiotics and steroids and her steroids have very gradually reduced but she still needs them, I think they line the stumoche. She had pancreatic enzymes which helped a lot, but currently refusing them. Ive been told this type of illness can take a very long to sort out and even then there are flare ups. Good luck and keep us informed please. My cats stumoche settled initially with fish & roast chicken every day and felix fish in jelly pouches, and somehow the pouch food later changed to whiskas 7+ fish pouches, with a few biscuits. She does ok with a tiny bit of liver, but very small quantities. Because of her kidney problems I was told to limit chicken to 1 oz a day. Did you mention that the vet wanted to open him up to take a look? I thought I read that somewhere. The vet should be able to advise you what's necessary for your cat, but if it doesn't feel right, then get a second or 2nd and third opinion from other vets. I suspect it is going to take some time but he is relying on you to find a way.


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## TriTri

bcats said:


> Be very careful with the liver. It can sometimes make poppy a bit loose. I only give it as a treat once a week a very small slither about one by two inches. Uncooked chicken wings are good but remove any skin or fat. Let her tummy settle down before you give her those. I would start her on the Kangaroo. That is very gentle on the digestion. Full of all the nutrients she needs. Chillminx advised me one meat at a time for a few day. That way you will see if she is allergic to any meat. If she is ok on the Kangaroo then you can do the same with another variety. Re Richard Allport. He will do a phone consultation. He books an appointment to call you. I used this method many times. You need to get your vet to give you a letter of referral. Richard I think will then send you a lengthy form to fill in asking you for details of the cats health. Questions like " does your cat like hot or cold. " may seem strange questions but very important in homeopathy because they are treating the animals as well as the condition. Your poor little girl has a lot of problems. A better diet should help. You will have to be very patient as it will take some time. Almost a year with Poppy because I couldn't find a food she would eat. She was very addicted to Whiskers. They add flavourings to make cats eat it as do many of the cheap brands. Please let me know if she accepts the Kangaroo.


Hi bcats, just to update you. I was hoping to have good news. Tessy was sick the first time she had the kangaroo, but I think she may have just eaten it too fast. I was careful not to give much and to mix it with her existing food, so after that I reduced it again to even tinier amounts mixed in with her food. She kept refusing it and the little she did have made her faeces soft again, so I then tried about 2 teaspoons of the turkey Granatapet with her existing pouch food. She use to have turkey and do well on it. The same happened here, she was sick the first time and thereafter what she did eat reduced her 100% good poo's to 5%, not good. It's only been 8 days but I've decided to stop it for now. Her poo's were good to 100%, but with some blood, so I will rethink it once she is back to her normal weight just 3.115 kilos. The chicken wings without skin will be mainly bones, so that doesn't sound right to me, giving her bones (?) but I'll mention it to the vet as she's due to go back soon. I think I will try the pancreatic enzymes again soon. She has however been livelier than usual, which has been nice to see. She hasn't taken much to the new large climbing tree with beds either! Fortunately I work from home, so I am able to keep a close eye on her. Thank you anyway.


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## Burmese Boy

Hi bcats, thanks for your reply, at the moment Mika is on 1 mg of Prednicare a day. I have just moved to 2/3 Kangaroo and 1/3 Cheshire Cat chicken. He is allergic to fish, I suspect he may be allergic to turkey as he had the diahorrea when on the James Wellbeloved turkey and although it said grain free it still had rice in it and the Royal Canin Sensitive had chicken and rice in it. Whilst he loved that food it also had sugars in it and fish oil and as he is also allergic to sugar beet the diahorrea continued. He does not vomit, it’s all poo orientated, he also has a voracious appetite which I understand is one of the symptoms of IBD. I suspect that he is also allergic to chicken which can be an allergen in cats. So basically it’s very difficult with him food wise. 

At the moment he still has diahorrea but within the next 3/4 days he will be on100% kangaroo. If we are lucky it may cure it over time. He is ok now with the meds’ as they are tiny pills so can get them down him. Yes,he has been tested and pancreas ok. I believe his B12 levels ok as well. I don’t know about Giarrda, I will ask when I go back to vet in 3 weeks. This time I will check precisely what he was tested for, it all went pear shaped at the beginning as a short while into starting investigations he went missing for 16 days, so it all became a bit of a blur with the stress.

I am not going to have him biopsied at the moment it’s too invasive - even though the vet suggested it as the only option. I will go for an ex ray or ultrasound. I don’t think they can feel any lumps as he has had his tummy felt and no comment was made. I am going to stick to the first of the vets I saw who is also a partner in the practice - but does not want to biopsy him on the grounds it very invasive. So differing opinions there! 

I also managed to get onto Vet Concept site and get it translated. I know that they sell rabbit and goat and a few others that he will never have eaten so won’t be allergicor sensitive to. So I feel less down as there are other food options that can be tried. 

As you say it’s a very long road I have finally started to let him out again after being kept in for 6 weeks. That will lessen his stress and may help. I hope you girl is coming along still. This site is a godsend. Thanks.


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## TriTri

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi bcats, thanks for your reply, at the moment Mika is on 1 mg of Prednicare a day. I have just moved to 2/3 Kangaroo and 1/3 Cheshire Cat chicken. He is allergic to fish, I suspect he may be allergic to turkey as he had the diahorrea when on the James Wellbeloved turkey and although it said grain free it still had rice in it and the Royal Canin Sensitive had chicken and rice in it. Whilst he loved that food it also had sugars in it and fish oil and as he is also allergic to sugar beet the diahorrea continued. He does not vomit, it's all poo orientated, he also has a voracious appetite which I understand is one of the symptoms of IBD. I suspect that he is also allergic to chicken which can be an allergen in cats. So basically it's very difficult with him food wise.
> 
> At the moment he still has diahorrea but within the next 3/4 days he will be on100% kangaroo. If we are lucky it may cure it over time. He is ok now with the meds' as they are tiny pills so can get them down him. Yes,he has been tested and pancreas ok. I believe his B12 levels ok as well. I don't know about Giarrda, I will ask when I go back to vet in 3 weeks. This time I will check precisely what he was tested for, it all went pear shaped at the beginning as a short while into starting investigations he went missing for 16 days, so it all became a bit of a blur with the stress.
> 
> I am not going to have him biopsied at the moment it's too invasive - even though the vet suggested it as the only option. I will go for an ex ray or ultrasound. I don't think they can feel any lumps as he has had his tummy felt and no comment was made. I am going to stick to the first of the vets I saw who is also a partner in the practice - but does not want to biopsy him on the grounds it very invasive. So differing opinions there!
> 
> I also managed to get onto Vet Concept site and get it translated. I know that they sell rabbit and goat and a few others that he will never have eaten so won't be allergicor sensitive to. So I feel less down as there are other food options that can be tried.
> 
> As you say it's a very long road I have finally started to let him out again after being kept in for 6 weeks. That will lessen his stress and may help. I hope you girl is coming along still. This site is a godsend. Thanks.


Hi Bermese Boy, how are things with your dear cat? How's he enjoying the outdoors? My female cat with the pancreatitis /blood in her faeces (and thyroid condition with some kidney trouble and a slight heart murmur and the odd seizure) takes prednicare too. She is due to go back to the vet in a few days time and is due another B12 injection and maybe blood tests for her thyroid. Was pleased to hear your boy doesn't have low B12 levels and pancreatitis, or is sick. That's good. How old is he? How much does he weigh? My Tessy2shoes weighs just 3.115 kilos. Do you know how much weight he has lost and over what period of time? He looks lovely in the photo and I have my fingers crossed that he will soon be well again. If you do change his diet, I expect you know it must be done very, very gradually. If I change my cats diet even just a tad, it takes a while for her to recover. I'm so pleased your cat's got you, as I think there are many cat owners that don't even notice when their cats are ill, & some just won't even cough up for a vet trip etc. Lots of TLC and peace and quiet will take them half way. I presume they tested your cats faeces for Giarrda, but like you said, ask them when you go back. Is he wormed regularly as I found my black cat Max eats like a horse when he's due to be wormed?


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## bcats

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi bcats, thanks for your reply, at the moment Mika is on 1 mg of Prednicare a day. I have just moved to 2/3 Kangaroo and 1/3 Cheshire Cat chicken. He is allergic to fish, I suspect he may be allergic to turkey as he had the diahorrea when on the James Wellbeloved turkey and although it said grain free it still had rice in it and the Royal Canin Sensitive had chicken and rice in it. Whilst he loved that food it also had sugars in it and fish oil and as he is also allergic to sugar beet the diahorrea continued. He does not vomit, it's all poo orientated, he also has a voracious appetite which I understand is one of the symptoms of IBD. I suspect that he is also allergic to chicken which can be an allergen in cats. So basically it's very difficult with him food wise.
> 
> At the moment he still has diahorrea but within the next 3/4 days he will be on100% kangaroo. If we are lucky it may cure it over time. He is ok now with the meds' as they are tiny pills so can get them down him. Yes,he has been tested and pancreas ok. I believe his B12 levels ok as well. I don't know about Giarrda, I will ask when I go back to vet in 3 weeks. This time I will check precisely what he was tested for, it all went pear shaped at the beginning as a short while into starting investigations he went missing for 16 days, so it all became a bit of a blur with the stress.
> 
> I am not going to have him biopsied at the moment it's too invasive - even though the vet suggested it as the only option. I will go for an ex ray or ultrasound. I don't think they can feel any lumps as he has had his tummy felt and no comment was made. I am going to stick to the first of the vets I saw who is also a partner in the practice - but does not want to biopsy him on the grounds it very invasive. So differing opinions there!
> 
> I also managed to get onto Vet Concept site and get it translated. I know that they sell rabbit and goat and a few others that he will never have eaten so won't be allergicor sensitive to. So I feel less down as there are other food options that can be tried.
> 
> As you say it's a very long road I have finally started to let him out again after being kept in for 6 weeks. That will lessen his stress and may help. I hope you girl is coming along still. This site is a godsend. Thanks.


Sounds like your working hard on Mica What a worry. You are going in the right direction. I would keep him off all kibble regardless if it is grain free. Poppy has had a bit of a setback because I gave her a raw chicken liver. Probably because there is too much fat in it. So it has been a bland diet for a week. Cooked chicken and fish. I have been told by someone on my Facebook group that turkey is better than chicken. Less likely to be allergenic and it contains more taurine.Poppy doesn't like it. Fortunately no problem with the chicken. This week I have been giving her a small amount of unsweetened tinned pumpkin. About half teaspoon a day. Very good for bulking up poo. May help your boy. Very nutritious. Poppy will eat it off a spoon. Plenty of advice on line. I posted a thread on it this week. Not read all the comments yet. Keep in touch.


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## Burmese Boy

TriTri said:


> Hi Bermese Boy, how are things with your dear cat? How's he enjoying the outdoors? My female cat with the pancreatitis /blood in her faeces (and thyroid condition with some kidney trouble and a slight heart murmur and the odd seizure) takes prednicare too. She is due to go back to the vet in a few days time and is due another B12 injection and maybe blood tests for her thyroid. Was pleased to hear your boy doesn't have low B12 levels and pancreatitis, or is sick. That's good. How old is he? How much does he weigh? My Tessy2shoes weighs just 3.115 kilos. Do you know how much weight he has lost and over what period of time? He looks lovely in the photo and I have my fingers crossed that he will soon be well again. If you do change his diet, I expect you know it must be done very, very gradually. If I change my cats diet even just a tad, it takes a while for her to recover. I'm so pleased your cat's got you, as I think there are many cat owners that don't even notice when their cats are ill, & some just won't even cough up for a vet trip etc. Lots of TLC and peace and quiet will take them half way. I presume they tested your cats faeces for Giarrda, but like you said, ask them when you go back. Is he wormed regularly as I found my black cat Max eats like a horse when he's due to be wormed?


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## Burmese Boy

Hello bcats, things not going that well, Mika has now been on kangaroo for 3 weeks and a daily steroid tab and nothing has changed, he still has chronic diahorrea. So I don’t think the food is doing him any good. I do remember reading somewhere on this site that the kangaroo could cause sloppy poo because of the amount of heart it contained. It’s also given my other Burmese the squits as well. I feel disheartened at the moment. Mika is ravenous because of the steroids and it’s so hard. I have ordered some Hills Zd wet to see if that will stop his diahorrea, , I have tried so many foods and nothing seems to work. He has not had dried food for over a month now and it never was his main food anyway. I think that I am going to get him x-rayed or an ultrasound to see if that throws anything up. I still can’t have a biopsy done it’s so invasive. I am feeling defeated at the moment. He can’t have fish as he is allergic to it. He had squits on turkey, he won’t eat plain chicken and I think he is allergic to chicken anyway. I nearly ordered Terra Faelis Rabbit to try that but it’s such a slow process switching food. So I will go with the Hills zd, it’s hydrolised and probably horrible but if it can fool his body into not recognising protein it’s worth a go. Sorry not to have anymore positive news. How is Poppy at the moment? How old is she, Mika is 8 1/2 where do you get tinned pumpkin from, l could cook some pumpkin and offer it to him but I can’t see he will eat it. Do cats especially like the taste?


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## Burmese Boy

TriTri said:


> Hi Bermese Boy, how are things with your dear cat? How's he enjoying the outdoors? My female cat with the pancreatitis /blood in her faeces (and thyroid condition with some kidney trouble and a slight heart murmur and the odd seizure) takes prednicare too. She is due to go back to the vet in a few days time and is due another B12 injection and maybe blood tests for her thyroid. Was pleased to hear your boy doesn't have low B12 levels and pancreatitis, or is sick. That's good. How old is he? How much does he weigh? My Tessy2shoes weighs just 3.115 kilos. Do you know how much weight he has lost and over what period of time? He looks lovely in the photo and I have my fingers crossed that he will soon be well again. If you do change his diet, I expect you know it must be done very, very gradually. If I change my cats diet even just a tad, it takes a while for her to recover. I'm so pleased your cat's got you, as I think there are many cat owners that don't even notice when their cats are ill, & some just won't even cough up for a vet trip etc. Lots of TLC and peace and quiet will take them half way. I presume they tested your cats faeces for Giarrda, but like you said, ask them when you go back. Is he wormed regularly as I found my black cat Max eats like a horse when he's due to be wormed?


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## Burmese Boy

HelloTri Tri, things not going well, Mika still has chronic diahorrea, the kangaroo not made a difference nor have the steroids and he has now had 2 monthly injections and daily tabs for last 3 weeks. The Royal Canin sensitive didn’t work nor the Cheshire Cat nor any food I have tried so far. I had pinned my hopes on the kangaroo as a novel protein but I don’t feel I can keep giving it to him knowing it’s going to come out liquid. 
I have now ordered Hills z/d, it’s seems to be horrible but as it’s hydrolised it may fool his body so the proteins are not recognised and ease the diahorrea- that’s assuming he will eat it. Mind you the steroids have made him ravenous which is awful, he is just desperate for food all the time so hopefully he will. It just having to yet again slowly introduce a new food. He did weigh 3.8 kgs, then when he went missing for 15 days he lost so much weight as I think he got shut in somewhere and consequently went down to 2.9 kgs. 
I think he has gone up to about 3.4 kgs now, but as not seen vet for a couple of weeks not sure. I have never wormed him his flea treatment is Advocat and I believe that treats worms, he had his poo tested and no parasites were found. When I take him back I will ask about Giardia and Trichomoniasis or however it’s spelt!. He is not really bothered to go out now which is not like him at all. I don’t know if it’s the fear of when he got shut in or because all he wants to do is sit in the kitchen hoping for more food or just he does not feel very well. Who knows. 
He must be uncomfortable with the chronic diahorrea. It’s a worry. Your Tessy 2 shoes has lots of health issues, is she a tiny cat like Mika or has she lost weight because of her problems? I wish they could talk it would make life much easier.


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## Burmese Boy

G


Burmese Boy said:


> HelloTri Tri, things not going well, Mika still has chronic diahorrea, the kangaroo not made a difference nor have the steroids and he has now had 2 monthly injections and daily tabs for last 3 weeks. The Royal Canin sensitive didn't work nor the Cheshire Cat nor any food I have tried so far. I had pinned my hopes on the kangaroo as a novel protein but I don't feel I can keep giving it to him knowing it's going to come out liquid.
> I have now ordered Hills z/d, it's seems to be horrible but as it's hydrolised it may fool his body so the proteins are not recognised and ease the diahorrea- that's assuming he will eat it. Mind you the steroids have made him ravenous which is awful, he is just desperate for food all the time so hopefully he will. It just having to yet again slowly introduce a new food. He did weigh 3.8 kgs, then when he went missing for 15 days he lost so much weight as I think he got shut in somewhere and consequently went down to 2.9 kgs.
> I think he has gone up to about 3.4 kgs now, but as not seen vet for a couple of weeks not sure. I have never wormed him his flea treatment is Advocat and I believe that treats worms, he had his poo tested and no parasites were found. When I take him back I will ask about Giardia and Trichomoniasis or however it's spelt!. He is not really bothered to go out now which is not like him at all. I don't know if it's the fear of when he got shut in or because all he wants to do is sit in the kitchen hoping for more food or just he does not feel very well. Who knows.
> He must be uncomfortable with the chronic diahorrea. It's a worry. Your Tessy 2 shoes has lots of health issues, is she a tiny cat like Mika or has she lost weight because of her problems? I wish they could talk it would make life much easier.


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## chillminx

Hi @Burmese Boy - I am sorry to hear that poor Mika has been going through such a difficult time with diarrhoea.

If the Kangaroo is not helping to firm up his stools then you should take him off it, as it is evidently not agreeing with him. You need to try and find a novel protein that his gut can tolerate e.g goat, horse, reindeer, venison, some of which can be bought canned as you may know. Goat and reindeer come from Vet Concept in Germany, Venison made by Ropocat from The Happy Kitty Co.

Horse used to be available canned but seems to have been taken off the market, so you would have to buy it as raw meat and feed it cooked or raw (if you chose horse as the novel protein).

While Mika is on the novel protein exclusion diet for 6 weeks he should have nothing else at all except water. (No supplements, no probiotics, no dry food, no treats.) If you have other cats you should ensure he can't get their food. (Microchipped feeders are a boon in a multicat household). Ideally he should be kept indoors while on the diet so you know he has not eaten anything while outdoors, but I understand it's not always possible to keep outdoor cats in for weeks at a time without causing them a lot of stress.

If Mika is OK on the 6 week diet (i.e. his stool firms up) you can then start reintroducing other meat proteins to his diet. These should be introduced one at a time every 3 weeks, and they must be guaranteed single protein foods or the results won't be scientific and reliable. Keep a daily log of symptoms.

Single protein foods can be bought from www.zoo-bio.co.uk, www.thehappykittycompany.co.uk and www.vetconcept.de in Germany.

Zoo-bio UK sells :

canned Catz FineFood Purrr in pork, lamb, chicken, fish

The Happy Kitty Co sells :

canned Ropocat Lamb, Venison or Rabbit, 
canned Macs Sensitive Turkey or Lamb,
canned Tundra Pure Turkey,
canned Granatapet Pure Turkey or Chicken

Vet Concept sells :

canned Goat, or Reindeer.

If you decide to do the Exclusion Diet I am happy to advise if needed. I have done this diet for 3 of my cats with great success. All 3 had food allergies, 2 of them have IBD and one has Dermatitis, all well controlled now.

I hope Mika feels better soon, bless him.


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## TriTri

Burmese Boy said:


> HelloTri Tri, things not going well, Mika still has chronic diahorrea, the kangaroo not made a difference nor have the steroids and he has now had 2 monthly injections and daily tabs for last 3 weeks. The Royal Canin sensitive didn't work nor the Cheshire Cat nor any food I have tried so far. I had pinned my hopes on the kangaroo as a novel protein but I don't feel I can keep giving it to him knowing it's going to come out liquid.
> I have now ordered Hills z/d, it's seems to be horrible but as it's hydrolised it may fool his body so the proteins are not recognised and ease the diahorrea- that's assuming he will eat it. Mind you the steroids have made him ravenous which is awful, he is just desperate for food all the time so hopefully he will. It just having to yet again slowly introduce a new food. He did weigh 3.8 kgs, then when he went missing for 15 days he lost so much weight as I think he got shut in somewhere and consequently went down to 2.9 kgs.
> I think he has gone up to about 3.4 kgs now, but as not seen vet for a couple of weeks not sure. I have never wormed him his flea treatment is Advocat and I believe that treats worms, he had his poo tested and no parasites were found. When I take him back I will ask about Giardia and Trichomoniasis or however it's spelt!. He is not really bothered to go out now which is not like him at all. I don't know if it's the fear of when he got shut in or because all he wants to do is sit in the kitchen hoping for more food or just he does not feel very well. Who knows.
> He must be uncomfortable with the chronic diahorrea. It's a worry. Your Tessy 2 shoes has lots of health issues, is she a tiny cat like Mika or has she lost weight because of her problems? I wish they could talk it would make life much easier.


Poor Mika. Well he weighs more than Tessytwoshoes. She was 3.115 kilos a month ago and 3.015 kilos now. I found her 3 years ago yesterday with awful sickness and diahorrea and she was howling and starving. I have her diet sorted now for usually perfect stools, except for the odd bit of blood. The sickness I think, is when she feels ill and had not eaten, then gets hungry & eats too fast or a little much, but this may also have been down to her thyroid, now treated. (A previous cat of mine was constantly sick until diagnosed with her thyroid disorder, like Tessy). She's sick about 3 times a month now, and half a steroid every 3 days helps this, and B12 injections, but I remember you said Mika's B12 is fine. She won't eat boiled chicken, but enjoys roast chicken (can be cooked in a roasting bag) every day, which was the key food into getting Tessy on track. She was also fine on Felix fish in jelly pouch food, but now has Whiskas 7+ fish in jelly pouch food, but not the tuna flavour. She has a small amount of liver and occasionally but not often kidneys, every 3 weeks Ish the liver as she loves it. She has the odd few cat biscuits. She use to have fresh fish, like sea bass, and was good on it, but went off it. Most important thing is the less I change her diet, the better. The tiniest amount of kangaroo made her sick and the Granatapet mono protein, but my mum's fussy 22yr old cat loves the kangaroo so it wasn't wasted! Tessy also stays in when it's cold and sleeps a lot, partly down to her probably being old and down to her pancreatitis. When she feels good, I know about it as she goes climbing outside and howls from the roof, to be got down! The pancreatic enzymes helped, but she only has them when she is in the mood. The prokolin helped and was taken for a while. Have you spoken with Chillminx as she is extremely knowledgeable? If you find a food that works that he likes, stick to it, and are you sure he is allergic to chicken? Tessy had Advocate this month which treats most worms and she has Milquantel half a tablet every 2 or 3 months. It's important IBD cats are wormed regularly I keep reading. If Mika hasn't been tested for Giarrda, then find out why. This was the first thing she was tested for and my friends dogs had it for a very long time, caught from sharing communal water bowls, the vet told her. Let me know how Mika does, and so lovely, any more photos?


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## TriTri

Oh you have spoken with Chillminx, that’s great!


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## bcats

Burmese Boy said:


> Hello bcats, things not going that well, Mika has now been on kangaroo for 3 weeks and a daily steroid tab and nothing has changed, he still has chronic diahorrea. So I don't think the food is doing him any good. I do remember reading somewhere on this site that the kangaroo could cause sloppy poo because of the amount of heart it contained. It's also given my other Burmese the squits as well. I feel disheartened at the moment. Mika is ravenous because of the steroids and it's so hard. I have ordered some Hills Zd wet to see if that will stop his diahorrea, , I have tried so many foods and nothing seems to work. He has not had dried food for over a month now and it never was his main food anyway. I think that I am going to get him x-rayed or an ultrasound to see if that throws anything up. I still can't have a biopsy done it's so invasive. I am feeling defeated at the moment. He can't have fish as he is allergic to it. He had squits on turkey, he won't eat plain chicken and I think he is allergic to chicken anyway. I nearly ordered Terra Faelis Rabbit to try that but it's such a slow process switching food. So I will go with the Hills zd, it's hydrolised and probably horrible but if it can fool his body into not recognising protein it's worth a go. Sorry not to have anymore positive news. How is Poppy at the moment? How old is she, Mika is 8 1/2 where do you get tinned pumpkin from, l could cook some pumpkin and offer it to him but I can't see he will eat it. Do cats especially like the taste?


So sorry to hear that things are still bad with Mika. As I told you I am not an expert. The Kangaroo did help poppy. Her problem was constipation and blood dripping from her rectum. Also she was very finicky. Most of the Catz Purrr she will eat now. Only the pouches, will eat nothing from tins. Poppy has had a setback. We put her in a cattery a few weeks ago. Its possible that she has picked up a bug. She had a bout of diarrhea three weeks later. I put her on a bland diet for three days and it stopped. Two weeks ago it came back worse than before so I am waiting for the results of a stool test. I thought at first that it was a raw chicken liver that has caused it but it has gone on too long. Vet put her onto Fortiflora which I do not like. The reason being that it is made by Purina. I don't give any cat food from Purina I suspect they put flavour enhancers and other things in it. I could see when I gave Poppy the fortiflora that she yomped her food and craved for more. Suspicious so I took her off it and put her back onto synbiotic which suits her. The diarrhea has stopped and I am now gradually introducing her normal food.She is now constipated her original problem. I did read that kangaroo can sometimes cause diarrhea but I think the raw. ilimination diets are difficult to do, takes ages. I get tinned pumpkin from Waitrose. Its the unsweetened not the pie filling. I put it into small portions and freeze. At the moment I am giving poppy half a teaspoon twice a day. Poppy loves it will lick it off a spoon. It can be added to food. Plenty of information in Google about it. Some sites recommend a larger dose but I am keeping to the smaller dose. Some of my contacts on my Australian Mist Facebook page give it to there cats for digestive disorder. I think you are right to have further investigations done. They are very costly. Has Chillminx been in contact with you. She is very experienced with digestive problems in cats. I think one of her cats has allergys to certain meats. I found her advice very helpful. I am still in touch. Please keep me posted. I do hope you sort Mikos problems out soon.


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## bcats

bcats said:


> So sorry to hear that things are still bad with Mika. As I told you I am not an expert. The Kangaroo did help poppy. Her problem was constipation and blood dripping from her rectum. Also she was very finicky. Most of the Catz Purrr she will eat now. Only the pouches, will eat nothing from tins. Poppy has had a setback. We put her in a cattery a few weeks ago. Its possible that she has picked up a bug. She had a bout of diarrhea three weeks later. I put her on a bland diet for three days and it stopped. Two weeks ago it came back worse than before so I am waiting for the results of a stool test. I thought at first that it was a raw chicken liver that has caused it but it has gone on too long. Vet put her onto Fortiflora which I do not like. The reason being that it is made by Purina. I don't give any cat food from Purina I suspect they put flavour enhancers and other things in it. I could see when I gave Poppy the fortiflora that she yomped her food and craved for more. Suspicious so I took her off it and put her back onto synbiotic which suits her. The diarrhea has stopped and I am now gradually introducing her normal food.She is now constipated her original problem. I did read that kangaroo can sometimes cause diarrhea but I think the raw. ilimination diets are difficult to do, takes ages. I get tinned pumpkin from Waitrose. Its the unsweetened not the pie filling. I put it into small portions and freeze. At the moment I am giving poppy half a teaspoon twice a day. Poppy loves it will lick it off a spoon. It can be added to food. Plenty of information in Google about it. Some sites recommend a larger dose but I am keeping to the smaller dose. Some of my contacts on my Australian Mist Facebook page give it to there cats for digestive disorder. I think you are right to have further investigations done. They are very costly. Has Chillminx been in contact with you. She is very experienced with digestive problems in cats. I think one of her cats has allergys to certain meats. I found her advice very helpful. I am still in touch. Please keep me posted. I do hope you sort Mikos problems out soon.


How is Mika today. Have you tried Pumpkin yet? It can help both diarrhea and constipation. I have been doing a lot of reading on Google regarding both constipation and diarrhea in cats. They say that diarrhea can be a symptom of constipation which happened in Poppy's case. The bowel becomes full of faeces which only allows the fluid in the bowel to be excreted. Hence diarrhea. I have been giving Poppy half a teaspoon twice daily for three days. Her motions are normal as from yesterday. Not saying that this is the problem in Mikas case but it will do him no harm.


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## Burmese Boy

TriTri said:


> Poor Mika. Well he weighs more than Tessytwoshoes. She was 3.115 kilos a month ago and 3.015 kilos now. I found her 3 years ago yesterday with awful sickness and diahorrea and she was howling and starving. I have her diet sorted now for usually perfect stools, except for the odd bit of blood. The sickness I think, is when she feels ill and had not eaten, then gets hungry & eats too fast or a little much, but this may also have been down to her thyroid, now treated. (A previous cat of mine was constantly sick until diagnosed with her thyroid disorder, like Tessy). She's sick about 3 times a month now, and half a steroid every 3 days helps this, and B12 injections, but I remember you said Mika's B12 is fine. She won't eat boiled chicken, but enjoys roast chicken (can be cooked in a roasting bag) every day, which was the key food into getting Tessy on track. She was also fine on Felix fish in jelly pouch food, but now has Whiskas 7+ fish in jelly pouch food, but not the tuna flavour. She has a small amount of liver and occasionally but not often kidneys, every 3 weeks Ish the liver as she loves it. She has the odd few cat biscuits. She use to have fresh fish, like sea bass, and was good on it, but went off it. Most important thing is the less I change her diet, the better. The tiniest amount of kangaroo made her sick and the Granatapet mono protein, but my mum's fussy 22yr old cat loves the kangaroo so it wasn't wasted! Tessy also stays in when it's cold and sleeps a lot, partly down to her probably being old and down to her pancreatitis. When she feels good, I know about it as she goes climbing outside and howls from the roof, to be got down! The pancreatic enzymes helped, but she only has them when she is in the mood. The prokolin helped and was taken for a while. Have you spoken with Chillminx as she is extremely knowledgeable? If you find a food that works that he likes, stick to it, and are you sure he is allergic to chicken? Tessy had Advocate this month which treats most worms and she has Milquantel half a tablet every 2 or 3 months. It's important IBD cats are wormed regularly I keep reading. If Mika hasn't been tested for Giarrda, then find out why. This was the first thing she was tested for and my friends dogs had it for a very long time, caught from sharing communal water bowls, the vet told her. Let me know how Mika does, and so lovely, any more photos?


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## Burmese Boy

TriTri said:


> Poor Mika. Well he weighs more than Tessytwoshoes. She was 3.115 kilos a month ago and 3.015 kilos now. I found her 3 years ago yesterday with awful sickness and diahorrea and she was howling and starving. I have her diet sorted now for usually perfect stools, except for the odd bit of blood. The sickness I think, is when she feels ill and had not eaten, then gets hungry & eats too fast or a little much, but this may also have been down to her thyroid, now treated. (A previous cat of mine was constantly sick until diagnosed with her thyroid disorder, like Tessy). She's sick about 3 times a month now, and half a steroid every 3 days helps this, and B12 injections, but I remember you said Mika's B12 is fine. She won't eat boiled chicken, but enjoys roast chicken (can be cooked in a roasting bag) every day, which was the key food into getting Tessy on track. She was also fine on Felix fish in jelly pouch food, but now has Whiskas 7+ fish in jelly pouch food, but not the tuna flavour. She has a small amount of liver and occasionally but not often kidneys, every 3 weeks Ish the liver as she loves it. She has the odd few cat biscuits. She use to have fresh fish, like sea bass, and was good on it, but went off it. Most important thing is the less I change her diet, the better. The tiniest amount of kangaroo made her sick and the Granatapet mono protein, but my mum's fussy 22yr old cat loves the kangaroo so it wasn't wasted! Tessy also stays in when it's cold and sleeps a lot, partly down to her probably being old and down to her pancreatitis. When she feels good, I know about it as she goes climbing outside and howls from the roof, to be got down! The pancreatic enzymes helped, but she only has them when she is in the mood. The prokolin helped and was taken for a while. Have you spoken with Chillminx as she is extremely knowledgeable? If you find a food that works that he likes, stick to it, and are you sure he is allergic to chicken? Tessy had Advocate this month which treats most worms and she has Milquantel half a tablet every 2 or 3 months. It's important IBD cats are wormed regularly I keep reading. If Mika hasn't been tested for Giarrda, then find out why. This was the first thing she was tested for and my friends dogs had it for a very long time, caught from sharing communal water bowls, the vet told her. Let me know how Mika does, and so lovely, any more photos?


 Hello Tri Tri, it gladdens my heart to read that you have managed to get Tessytwo shoes diet sorted out so that she no longer has diahorrea and sickness. How long did it take you to sort this out? It's a miracle that you found her, though maybe she found you - to save her life. How old do you think she is now?

Getting the diet right is a trial and error business and so far it's eluded me and the search goes on. Mika is off the kangaroo now it was not working even though he loved it. I am now left with 64 pouches and 24 tins!! That's the downside of getting it off the internet. I can't keep it as it was also giving my other Burmese an upset stomach. I think it was all of the offal in it. I did think about getting some kangaroo steak and cooking that up but I decided against it. I would have to cook it and then mince it and add in all of the other stuff needed- taurine etc. At the moment it would be too difficult. I was giving him a few cat biscuits but that's stopped now it's just wet food.

The reason I think he is allergic to chicken is that his diahorrea and flatulence continued on the Royal Canin sensitive and Cheshire Cat chicken. He has never eaten human food, in the past I have tried poached fish or chicken and neither of them will touch it. I also prepared some chicken broth and again not touched. I have had to give him some Cheshire Cat and RC sensitive today as it's all I have at present awaiting another food delivery and it takes a few days and this evening he is on my lap with flatulence. It smells marginally better than the kangaroo but its not pleasant. I am going to try rabbit to see if it's tolerated. I am going back to the vet this week so will find out exactly what he has been tested for and what the next step is to be. Yes I heard from Chilliminx, and have replied. At least I think I have as it's not appeared on here maybe it gone privately. I will check. I am not really very efficient in using this site!! I have put up another photo of Mika. I will let you know how Inget on.


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## Burmese Boy

bcats said:


> How is Mika today. Have you tried Pumpkin yet? It can help both diarrhea and constipation. I have been doing a lot of reading on Google regarding both constipation and diarrhea in cats. They say that diarrhea can be a symptom of constipation which happened in Poppy's case. The bowel becomes full of faeces which only allows the fluid in the bowel to be excreted. Hence diarrhea. I have been giving Poppy half a teaspoon twice daily for three days. Her motions are normal as from yesterday. Not saying that this is the problem in Mikas case but it will do him no harm.





bcats said:


> So sorry to hear that things are still bad with Mika. As I told you I am not an expert. The Kangaroo did help poppy. Her problem was constipation and blood dripping from her rectum. Also she was very finicky. Most of the Catz Purrr she will eat now. Only the pouches, will eat nothing from tins. Poppy has had a setback. We put her in a cattery a few weeks ago. Its possible that she has picked up a bug. She had a bout of diarrhea three weeks later. I put her on a bland diet for three days and it stopped. Two weeks ago it came back worse than before so I am waiting for the results of a stool test. I thought at first that it was a raw chicken liver that has caused it but it has gone on too long. Vet put her onto Fortiflora which I do not like. The reason being that it is made by Purina. I don't give any cat food from Purina I suspect they put flavour enhancers and other things in it. I could see when I gave Poppy the fortiflora that she yomped her food and craved for more. Suspicious so I took her off it and put her back onto synbiotic which suits her. The diarrhea has stopped and I am now gradually introducing her normal food.She is now constipated her original problem. I did read that kangaroo can sometimes cause diarrhea but I think the raw. ilimination diets are difficult to do, takes ages. I get tinned pumpkin from Waitrose. Its the unsweetened not the pie filling. I put it into small portions and freeze. At the moment I am giving poppy half a teaspoon twice a day. Poppy loves it will lick it off a spoon. It can be added to food. Plenty of information in Google about it. Some sites recommend a larger dose but I am keeping to the smaller dose. Some of my contacts on my Australian Mist Facebook page give it to there cats for digestive disorder. I think you are right to have further investigations done. They are very costly. Has Chillminx been in contact with you. She is very experienced with digestive problems in cats. I think one of her cats has allergys to certain meats. I found her advice very helpful. I am still in touch. Please keep me posted. I do hope you sort Mikos problems out soon.


 Hello bcats, l have not managed to get to Waitrose yet as l have been working the last 4 days and not had much spare time. I will get some Wednesday and offer it to him. He loved the Kangaroo, well they both did but I think it must be the offal that is in there heart and liver which neither could tolerate. Its just the luck of the draw.

Sorry that Poppy has been unwell, since all of this started with Mika I have come to realise that cat food is a minefield in this country because the manufacturers do not appear to be open and transparent in detailing the ingredients in their food so we are left in the dark and I agree that there are some foods which are gobbled down so something is added. I can't do a raw diet l bought some of the Natures Menu raw frozen rabbit and chicken and the smell when defrosted make me feel nauseous plus they would not touch even the 1/2 cubes I put down. I would not know where to start with adding the vitamins and minerals and be wary l was not getting the doses right. Have you been able to stabilise Poppy generally and when did she start to become unwell? Have her stool tests come back ok. It was great fun chasing Mika round the garden for 3 days holding a spoon under him to catch it then decanting into a tube!I think Mika has had problems for a few years unbeknown to me. I am going to see what the vet says this week then decide the next step. He has fairly unpleasant flatulence tonight and will no doubt still have diahorrea tomorrow.and that's him back on the Cheshire Cat chicken and Royal Canin sensitive. I am going to try rabbit next but have to await delivery, but he definitely can't tolerate chicken either. I have heard from Chilliminx and messaged her back and will be grateful for any help and guidance received. I will keep you posted but at the moment can't see the light at the end of the tunnel it's an uphill struggle.


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## Burmese Boy

chillminx said:


> Hi @Burmese Boy - I am sorry to hear that poor Mika has been going through such a difficult time with diarrhoea.
> 
> If the Kangaroo is not helping to firm up his stools then you should take him off it, as it is evidently not agreeing with him. You need to try and find a novel protein that his gut can tolerate e.g goat, horse, reindeer, venison, some of which can be bought canned as you may know. Goat and reindeer come from Vet Concept in Germany, Venison made by Ropocat from The Happy Kitty Co.
> 
> Horse used to be available canned but seems to have been taken off the market, so you would have to buy it as raw meat and feed it cooked or raw (if you chose horse as the novel protein).
> 
> While Mika is on the novel protein exclusion diet for 6 weeks he should have nothing else at all except water. (No supplements, no probiotics, no dry food, no treats.) If you have other cats you should ensure he can't get their food. (Microchipped feeders are a boon in a multicat household). Ideally he should be kept indoors while on the diet so you know he has not eaten anything while outdoors, but I understand it's not always possible to keep outdoor cats in for weeks at a time without causing them a lot of stress.
> 
> If Mika is OK on the 6 week diet (i.e. his stool firms up) you can then start reintroducing other meat proteins to his diet. These should be introduced one at a time every 3 weeks, and they must be guaranteed single protein foods or the results won't be scientific and reliable. Keep a daily log of symptoms.
> 
> Single protein foods can be bought from www.zoo-bio.co.uk, www.thehappykittycompany.co.uk and www.vetconcept.de in Germany.
> 
> Zoo-bio UK sells :
> 
> canned Catz FineFood Purrr in pork, lamb, chicken, fish
> 
> The Happy Kitty Co sells :
> 
> canned Ropocat Lamb, Venison or Rabbit,
> canned Macs Sensitive Turkey or Lamb,
> canned Tundra Pure Turkey,
> canned Granatapet Pure Turkey or Chicken
> 
> Vet Concept sells :
> 
> canned Goat, or Reindeer.
> 
> If you decide to do the Exclusion Diet I am happy to advise if needed. I have done this diet for 3 of my cats with great success. All 3 had food allergies, 2 of them have IBD and one has Dermatitis, all well controlled now.
> 
> I hope Mika feels better soon, bless him.


Hello Chilliminx, I have replied to you I think! But my reply has not turned up on this site did you get it?


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## chillminx

Burmese Boy said:


> Hello Chilliminx, I have replied to you I think! But my reply has not turned up on this site did you get it?


Hi, no I can't see your reply....


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## Burmese Boy

chillminx said:


> Hi, no I can't see your reply....


I replied to the email that I received thinking you would get it, but it seems to go only go back to admin. It's a really long one I don't seem to be able to re route it. I will have to re do it. Will do as soon as I can.


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## TriTri

Burmese Boy said:


> Hello Tri Tri, it gladdens my heart to read that you have managed to get Tessytwo shoes diet sorted out so that she no longer has diahorrea and sickness. How long did it take you to sort this out? It's a miracle that you found her, though maybe she found you - to save her life. How old do you think she is now?
> 
> Getting the diet right is a trial and error business and so far it's eluded me and the search goes on. Mika is off the kangaroo now it was not working even though he loved it. I am now left with 64 pouches and 24 tins!! That's the downside of getting it off the internet. I can't keep it as it was also giving my other Burmese an upset stomach. I think it was all of the offal in it. I did think about getting some kangaroo steak and cooking that up but I decided against it. I would have to cook it and then mince it and add in all of the other stuff needed- taurine etc. At the moment it would be too difficult. I was giving him a few cat biscuits but that's stopped now it's just wet food.
> 
> The reason I think he is allergic to chicken is that his diahorrea and flatulence continued on the Royal Canin sensitive and Cheshire Cat chicken. He has never eaten human food, in the past I have tried poached fish or chicken and neither of them will touch it. I also prepared some chicken broth and again not touched. I have had to give him some Cheshire Cat and RC sensitive today as it's all I have at present awaiting another food delivery and it takes a few days and this evening he is on my lap with flatulence. It smells marginally better than the kangaroo but its not pleasant. I am going to try rabbit to see if it's tolerated. I am going back to the vet this week so will find out exactly what he has been tested for and what the next step is to be. Yes I heard from Chilliminx, and have replied. At least I think I have as it's not appeared on here maybe it gone privately. I will check. I am not really very efficient in using this site!! I have put up another photo of Mika. I will let you know how Inget on.


Hi Burmese Boy
I sometimes wonder if Tessytwoshoes was deliberately dumped where I found her, as many people know what a softy I am, when it comes to cats. I get offered cats every week. She was outside my old address, the bungalow I sold to my mum, and I was just leaving my mums. I'm sure she had been ill for a very long time. Each vet I've seen guesses a totally different age, but a vet friend said that cats don't usually get diagnosed with thyroid disease until they are at least 12 years old. I've had cats into their twenties but I can't work out her age, but I would now guess 12-14 maybe? I can't remember how long it was before I got her diahhorea initially sorted ( she had a terrible gurgley stumoche & was a bit windy for several months or a year maybe). But she has been to the vet at least once a month now for 3 years. She initially couldn't keep much food down, presumably because her tummy is so small, so I have to limit her to about 45 grams per meal. If she eats too fast she can be sick or if she eats a 2nd meal too soon after the first/previous meal, she can be sick. Her & I have to be quite disciplined. I write everything down in a book and review it. Fortunately I work from home. She was getting the odd flare up, but seems to be stable, so long as I don't change her diet and I now feed my other cat Max the same, so if she did pinch any dregs he leaves that I haven't disposed of quickly, she's ok. I was worrying about the blood, but I haven't seen any for about 2 months now, so fingers crossed. I think the seizures are under control so long as she has her thyroid meds. I suspect avoiding stress helps. I sadly lost my dear Elmo-Travis in May and both her & Max howled for a few weeks, but she is ok now. I sometimes feel bad for her if she doesn't always spend time playing and just sleeps a lot, but it could be down to her thyroid or because she could be older than I think. She will be having her thyroid checked soon, to check her meds dosage. I don't know the Cheshire Cat food & you say your cat is probably allergic to chicken, but have you fed him roast/baked chicken? Tessy has about 1/3 or 1/4 of her diet as roast chicken. It was a God-send for me. Some people think buying fresh chicken for cats is expensive, but not if you weigh it up with what cat food is bought and not eaten or no good. The chicken leftovers are great for risotto and chicken Caesar salad etc no not for the Cats!! Tessy wouldn't touch boiled chicken or chicken broth. I've never had a cat that doesn't like felix fish in jelly, so I started her on that & eventually, with the chicken she stopped having diahhorea. The procolon paste and steroids helped her stop being sick. I have had several cats with thyroid problems, (and I have a thyroid problem too), strangely all the cats have had totally different symptoms, therefore I would highly recommend your cat be tested for this if he is at least 12 yrs old (?). Please let me know how he gets on as I have my fingers crossed for him.


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## Burmese Boy

Burmese Boy said:


> I replied to the email that I received thinking you would get it, but it seems to go only go back to admin. It's a really long one I don't seem to be able to re route it. I will have to re do it. Will do as soon as I can.


Hello Chilliminx, sorry it taken me so long to get back to you but I have been at work. I am also very despondent at the moment. As you know the kangaroo did not work so I briefly put Mika back on theRoyal Canin waiting for the Hills Zd as that is the hydrolysed one that the gut cannot recognise as protein. He has been on that mixed with the Royal Canin to transition him for about 5 days and tonight he has had total liquid diahorrea. I just don't know what to do I have just started the Synbiotic probiotic 3 days now. But it was awful tonight. I feel so sad for him. He went back to the vet on Friday he said the only way to get a definitive diagnosis was biopsy but agreed it won't make him better. He said I would need to keep him on the Zd for at least a month to see if it works. He also said that raw may work. I am at the stage where it seems no processed diet will work. Or do I just keep him on the Zd and hope this awful liquid stops. At least on the Kangaroo and the Rc it was a thick mass rather than liquid. He has not lost any more weight but has not gained any either. I don't know which way to turn.


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## chillminx

@Burmese Boy - sorry to hear things are so bad for poor Mika. 

I advise you to keep the diet bland and simple for now. Try him with plain poached white fish and the cooking stock. Tesco sells bags of frozen white fish in their Value Range. White fish is very gentle on the bowel, allows it to rest.

I would feed Mika about 5 or 6 small meals of the fish a day (including one left overnight in an auto-feeder) so he doesn't have a lot to digest at one meal.

Do not give him anything else, no treats, no dry food, no probiotics. Also make sure he can't steal any food if you have other pets.

Once he is passing a formed stool, you can start transferring him slowly to cat food. I wouldn't use the Kangaroo though. Probably too rich for him. Instead try turkey, unless you know him to be allergic to turkey of course.

Has Mika had stool samples tested at the lab for parasites, infection or viruses? Were results all normal?


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## Burmese Boy

chillminx said:


> @Burmese Boy - sorry to hear things are so bad for poor Mika.
> 
> I advise you to keep the diet bland and simple for now. Try him with plain poached white fish and the cooking stock. Tesco sells bags of frozen white fish in their Value Range. White fish is very gentle on the bowel, allows it to rest.
> 
> I would feed Mika about 5 or 6 small meals of the fish a day (including one left overnight in an auto-feeder) so he doesn't have a lot to digest at one meal.
> 
> Do not give him anything else, no treats, no dry food, no probiotics. Also make sure he can't steal any food if you have other pets.
> 
> Once he is passing a formed stool, you can start transferring him slowly to cat food. I wouldn't use the Kangaroo though. Probably too rich for him. Instead try turkey, unless you know him to be allergic to turkey of course.
> 
> Has Mika had stool samples tested at the lab for parasites, infection or viruses? Were results all normal?


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## Burmese Boy

Hi thank you for replying so quickly. Mika had tests for parasites, pancreatitis, liver, kidneys. All came back ok. I don’t know what viruses and infections you are referring to. He was not tested for toxoplasmosis but the vet said unlikely and in any event that usually cleared on its own. He had allergy test and is allergic to pork, fish, venison, oats and sugar beet. Because of the ongoing problems I also think he is allergic to chicken, rice and turkey, because his diahorrea just goes on. The smell is awful again. If I give him fish won’t it just carry on? It’s not being helped by the fact that the steroids make him ravenous and he keep begging for food and I maybe am over feeding him. He has not had dried food for weeks. He was never given treats nor did he ever show any interest in human food.


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## chillminx

@Burmese Boy - as Mika had tests for all those things and results were normal then it does suggest his diarrhoea is due to food sensitivities, as you say.

Were the allergy tests blood tests? If so I am afraid blood tests are not very reliable. The only truly reliable way to identify food allergies (or food intolerances or sensitivities as they are also referred to) is to conduct Food Trials.

These should be done ideally using a novel protein, which I understand is what the kangaroo was for. But in poor Mika's case he has not got along with the kangaroo and so you would need to find a different novel protein for him.

The problem is at present his gut is so inflamed he is experiencing bad reactions to everything he eats. Which is why either he needs a novel protein (to rest his bowel) if we can find one he can tolerate OK, or he needs a bland diet of white fish or chicken. White fish would IMO be a safer bet than chicken.

Unless he has eaten a lot of venison in his life (has he?) then I can't see how he can be allergic to venison. Cats (and humans) become allergic (or sensitive) to foods they have eaten a lot of over quite a long period of time. I have a lot of food allergies myself and can vouch for this being the case.

It is quite possible as you say, he could be allergic / sensitive to chicken and turkey, as those meats being cheap and plentiful at the wholesalers are used a lot in cat food. So Mika will likely have eaten them over a long period.

It is also possible he is allergic to fish, if he has been fed fish a lot in his life. Though white fish is not often used in cat food, more usually fish such as salmon, tuna, trout or shell fish. So he may possibly be OK on white fish....I am not sure whether you should try it now. Though as he is so bad with diarrhoea at present it may not actually make him any worse if it disagrees with him. Even so...

Pork is also a meat that not so often used in normal cat food, simply because most of the carcass is sold for consumption by humans. However it is possible Mika could have eaten pork in cat food at some stage, and therefore it would not be a suitable meat for a novel protein.

I would not give him any rice, oats or other cereals, as those can cause a problem with a sensitive bowel. Neither of my boys with IBD have those ingredients in their food.

Novel proteins for Mika would be horse, reindeer, goat, squirrel, ostrich, pigeon. You can buy reindeer and goat canned from Vet Concept in Germany, but there is no way of knowing if Mika would like either or they would agree with him without trying them. Meats such as squirrel, pigeon and ostrich can be bought from online suppliers of meat, to be cooked, but it won't be cheap I'm afraid.

Or if you would consider feeding him raw meat there are various suppliers of raw meat for pets (such as Kiezebrink who supply the UK zoos) who do sell novel protein meats for cats.

Kiezebrink sells quail, pigeon, wood pigeon, pheasant, and partridge. They also sell rodents such as guinea pigs and hamsters.

https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/category/177-other-poultry

Maybe raw food is the way to go for Mika, if he would eat it.

Is Mika on any medicines such as Prokolin? or steroids?


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## Burmese Boy

Hi, Mika is on Prednicare 1mg a day. No he has not been offered Prokolin, l bought the Synbiotic after reading about it on here. 

Yes, the allergy test was bloods and I know they are not reliable. You are right how can he be allergic to venison, I have never fed it to him. Nor has he ever been fed white fish he may have been offered it on the odd occasion in the past. I think they put pork by products in cat food. The problem with the pet food industry is that you don’t really know what’s in the food. So really that test was a complete waste of time.

For the first 12 months of his life he was fed Royal Canin kitten food pouches and possibly the biscuits to graze on. I can’t remember. He did not go out of the house for 12 months so I know his poo was normal then. After that he went out into a secure garden for around 4 years. He went to toilet in the garden They both went off of RC after 12 months so I switched to Iams pouches 2 each per day and RC biscuits to graze on.They were mixed flavours in gravy but identified as salmon, ocean fish, chicken and beef from memory. Plus the unknown by products. I continued with the Iams until about 2/3 years ago when they changed the recipe. That’s when the problems started with flatulence. Before that he didn’t have any - I don’t know about his poo as he went outside. But I didn’t have any concerns.

They started including vegetables and reduced the pouch size from 100 to 85 gms and put who knows what else in it but it became apparent over a period, can’t remember how long that it did not agree with him. So that’s when the search began Sainsburys ( good as it looks) was eaten for a while then either began to disagree or they went off it. Same with Fortescue, AVA, Wainwrights, James Wellbeloved and I can’t remember what else. They have always had biscuits to graze on, RC or James Wellbeloved. So he may have had this problem for a long time and it’s slowly crept up. He has never vomited. Both have always been good eaters, but l now see that one of the symptoms of IBD is eating a lot.

I have seen soft poo in the garden over time but assumed it was because of the food issue. I never in my wildest dreams thought he had this problem because if I had he would have been diagnosed a long time ago. He is a much loved and treasured cat.

The flatulence can get really bad- then not so bad. At some point Iams brought out Natural which did not include veg so they went back on it, then came off it as it started again and had something else and so it has continued. At some point this year they went back on lams because I was running out of food options. The flatulence got so bad I could not even have him on my lap. That’s when I took him to the vets. He weighed 3.8 kgs and was a solid muscular boy, he is a very small cat. He had the tests and Vet said to change his diet he did not suggest anything. That’s when he said about Biopsy but how invasive it was. He also had a steroid injection. I found RC Sensitive and ordered it. Four days after the injection and before he had eaten any RC he went missing.

It was a terrible time. I moved heaven and earth to try and find him and unfortunately there is another cat who lives a few roads away and looks very similar, but is a Siamese and I kept getting phone calls but it was never Mika. Eventually I had the phone call that was him. He was in a state, l think he must have been shut in somewhere, he was so thin, had fleas, his ears were crusty on the tips and his fur spiky and I also discovered a tick on him after 4 days. His weight had dropped to 2.9 kgs so he had lost not far short of 25%. He had a vet check after being home for 48 hours and was pronounced ok, obviously IBD aside.

Then after a couple more days he did a poo with blood in which I had never seen before so back to vets and another steroid injection. After being found he did 3 solid poos then the diahorrea started again. The vet said the solids were due to dehydration and the blood because we has no idea what he had managed to find to eat. 

Since he has been back he has had Cheshire Cat, RC Sensitive and Kangaroo I transition by mixing over about a week that’s probably not long enough but I have done it so much for 14 days in the past and I am getting desperate now.

The steroids make him ravenous which does not help and I have been free feeding to try and get weight back on him. So I am between a rock and a hard place. This morning he had 1/4 tin of ZD approx 39 gms and a desertspoon of the RC, trying to cut back as you said. Then I discovered that he had got the cling film off of the Zd tin and eaten more!

He is subdued nowadays and does not want to go out for long. He maybe scared because heaven knows what he went through or the steroids maybe making him feel unwell, or his gut. But he was such an active little boy before He loved going out, then would come in yelling and wanting kisses. He was such a character. That’s all changed now and it’s like he has lost part of himself.

There is apparently a local shop that specialises in raw food but it’s a daunting prospect. I am worried about all the vitamins and minerals including taurine that they have to have. Also this raw food includes crushed bone.l don’t care about the cost.

Would you know how soon after starting a food the diahorrea should stop? 

Maybe I should try poached white fish or just switch him completely to the ZD for a week or two and see if there is an improvement - getting him off the RC Sensitive as it contains rice and sugars, even though it is a vet diet and supposed to help with IBD. 

Both the RC and the ZD have chicken as novel protein though the ZD only has chicken liver which is hydrolysed and maybe I have to give it a chance.

I just don’t know and I think it’s nowadays case of I can’t see the wood for the trees.


----------



## chillminx

@Burmese Boy - thank you for explaining the background to Mika's current situation. It really helps me understand things better. Poor fellow is probably feeling miserable with this problem and I think that's why his normal lively character has disappeared for the moment.

How old is he btw?

I think we have to settle on a food that may just help him, and stick with that for a while. As he likes the ZD, I would try that. As you say, the protein in ZD is hydrolised and so he may cope with it. The protein in RC is not hydrolised and as chicken is a common food allergen in cats I think it's best he stops having it.

For a couple of days I wouldn't give him anything except ZD and water. If the ZD is going to help him you will start to see an effect in a few days - stools will start to firm up.

If he still has diarrhoea after 2 days then I would definitely give him Prokolin. It it has extra ingredients to the Synbiotic to soothe the gut and reduce movement of the bowel so as to control the diarrhoea. When diarrhoea is as bad as Mika's it is important to use something like this to make the bowel less active. Otherwise the bowel seems to get stuck in an overactive state.

If I were you I would order the Prokolin right away so you have it ready in case you need it in 2 days time. You do not need a prescription.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-P...=1512993731&sr=8-1&keywords=prokolin+for+cats

As you say, steroids will give him an appetite, and our aim should be to get him off the steroids gradually as it will not be good for him to be on them longterm.

If he is getting very hungry, try and feed him little but often. Each can of ZD contains 156 grams - so for him to have e.g. one can and a quarter of another can would not be too much I think. And he could have this in as many small meals a day as you think appropriate at present, e.g. 6. 7, or 8.

Probably best to put the idea of feeding him raw meat on hold for now. But it may be something to consider if we can't find a wet food to help him. Raw food does contain ground up bone as you say (for calcium content and for roughage) but a cat's digestion can cope admirably with raw bone. Many makes of prepared raw food for cats already have the necessary minerals and vitamins added, though you can always add more taurine supplement if you wish. Taurine is water soluble and any excess is excreted from the body without harm being done.

Please keep us updated with how things go with Mika. (Please do PM me any time if you need to. OK )

Sending many good vibes to dear Mika.


----------



## Burmese Boy

Hi, 
How do I PM you?


chillminx said:


> @Burmese Boy - thank you for explaining the background to Mika's current situation. It really helps me understand things better. Poor fellow is probably feeling miserable with this problem and I think that's why his normal lively character has disappeared for the moment.
> 
> How old is he btw?
> 
> I think we have to settle on a food that may just help him, and stick with that for a while. As he likes the ZD, I would try that. As you say, the protein in ZD is hydrolised and so he may cope with it. The protein in RC is not hydrolised and as chicken is a common food allergen in cats I think it's best he stops having it.
> 
> For a couple of days I wouldn't give him anything except ZD and water. If the ZD is going to help him you will start to see an effect in a few days - stools will start to firm up.
> 
> If he still has diarrhoea after 2 days then I would definitely give him Prokolin. It it has extra ingredients to the Synbiotic to soothe the gut and reduce movement of the bowel so as to control the diarrhoea. When diarrhoea is as bad as Mika's it is important to use something like this to make the bowel less active. Otherwise the bowel seems to get stuck in an overactive state.
> 
> If I were you I would order the Prokolin right away so you have it ready in case you need it in 2 days time. You do not need a prescription.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-P...=1512993731&sr=8-1&keywords=prokolin+for+cats
> 
> As you say, steroids will give him an appetite, and our aim should be to get him off the steroids gradually as it will not be good for him to be on them longterm.
> 
> If he is getting very hungry, try and feed him little but often. Each can of ZD contains 156 grams - so for him to have e.g. one can and a quarter of another can would not be too much I think. And he could have this in as many small meals a day as you think appropriate at present, e.g. 6. 7, or 8.
> 
> Probably best to put the idea of feeding him raw meat on hold for now. But it may be something to consider if we can't find a wet food to help him. Raw food does contain ground up bone as you say (for calcium content and for roughage) but a cat's digestion can cope admirably with raw bone. Many makes of prepared raw food for cats already have the necessary minerals and vitamins added, though you can always add more taurine supplement if you wish. Taurine is water soluble and any excess is excreted from the body without harm being done.
> 
> Please keep us updated with how things go with Mika. (Please do PM me any time if you need to. OK )
> 
> Sending many good vibes to dear Mika.


----------



## chillminx

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi,
> How do I PM you?


Click on the envelope icon on the top right of your screen, next to your user name. That will open the private conversation facility, then click on 'start a new conversation.'


----------



## KoolK

Hi there, i am new to this site and hope to get some advice.

My kitten has been displaying all of the following symptoms for under 2 months now.

The bloody dihorrea / blood in wee went away so I thought she was getting better after vet gave her worming medicine... clearly I was wrong :-(

Symptoms :

- bloody dihorrea (bright red)
- blood in urine (mucusey / gooey blood in urine)
- tiredness all the time / sleeps over 20 hours a day I think
- she's lethargic
- eating less (once a day!)
- drinking but less
- playing less
- dull coat

The vet said before the first time that it could be anything from guardia to colitis.

I'm scared it's something more serious...
Has this ever happened to anyone pet cat (s)?

What do you think it is ? Thank you for this thread I hope to get some answers please.


----------



## bcats

Very worrying for you. My cat is coming up to four. She had blood and mucous in her faeces and diarrhoea. No other symptoms. I had a PCR test done and it showed positive for 
Tritrichomonas 
Giardia 
C. Perfringens 
Coronavirus 
Her treatment began with Panacur paste for giardia then metrobactin. After still showing symptoms I got a second opinion and she was then put on ronidazole for two weeks. This is an antibiotic not licenced for cats but one of the only treatments for trichomonas. Five weeks on all good so far. I would certainly recommend a PCR test expense mine cost £150 and I had two done. They are generally very accurate and hopefully you will find out what you are dealing with. Also put her on a light diet of cooked chicken. Fish is good but in very small amounts. Sometimes a little tinned tuna in spring water will encourage them to eat. Again be careful with fish. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. Not much she doesn't know about cats. She has given me a lot of valuable advice which has helped me cope with Poppy's infections.
Poppy is still positive for Coronavirus. Lots of cats carry this virus which is not treatable with antibiotics. I am using natural herbal remedies to build her immune system up hopefully it will go. Also put your cat onto a go probiotic. I use Synbiotic I get it on line. Good luck let me know how you get on.


----------



## KoolK

bcats said:


> Very worrying for you. My cat is coming up to four. She had blood and mucous in her faeces and diarrhoea. No other symptoms. I had a PCR test done and it showed positive for
> Tritrichomonas
> Giardia
> C. Perfringens
> Coronavirus
> Her treatment began with Panacur paste for giardia then metrobactin. After still showing symptoms I got a second opinion and she was then put on ronidazole for two weeks. This is an antibiotic not licenced for cats but one of the only treatments for trichomonas. Five weeks on all good so far. I would certainly recommend a PCR test expense mine cost £150 and I had two done. They are generally very accurate and hopefully you will find out what you are dealing with. Also put her on a light diet of cooked chicken. Fish is good but in very small amounts. Sometimes a little tinned tuna in spring water will encourage them to eat. Again be careful with fish. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. Not much she doesn't know about cats. She has given me a lot of valuable advice which has helped me cope with Poppy's infections.
> Poppy is still positive for Coronavirus. Lots of cats carry this virus which is not treatable with antibiotics. I am using natural herbal remedies to build her immune system up hopefully it will go. Also put your cat onto a go probiotic. I use Synbiotic I get it on line. Good luck let me know how you get on.


Thank you
I am planning on taking her to my nearest PDSA hospital when I can as I am eligible for their reduced cost scheme.
What treatments did you do? What do you think i should do? Take her to a vet and then...?
What did you you?

Thank you


----------



## bcats

I am not eligible for the PDSA. I went straight to my vet. Not sure if PDSA do PCR test which is a faeces test. You have to take the faeces over three consecutive days. There are other tests that are cheaper but not very reliable. I think in your position I would try PDSA. The treatment was not expensive just the tests. For these infections vets usually give Panacur paste and the antibiotic Metrobactin. That will not treat Tritrichomonas if she has that. You said she is a kitten. How old? Has the vet given her anything for diarrhea. They usually prescribe Prokolin for that. Get another opinion ASAP. If she has diarrhea she will dehydrate.


----------



## Burmese Boy

KoolK said:


> Hi there, i am new to this site and hope to get some advice.
> 
> My kitten has been displaying all of the following symptoms for under 2 months now.
> 
> The bloody dihorrea / blood in wee went away so I thought she was getting better after vet gave her worming medicine... clearly I was wrong :-(
> 
> Symptoms :
> 
> - bloody dihorrea (bright red)
> - blood in urine (mucusey / gooey blood in urine)
> - tiredness all the time / sleeps over 20 hours a day I think
> - she's lethargic
> - eating less (once a day!)
> - drinking but less
> - playing less
> - dull coat
> 
> The vet said before the first time that it could be anything from guardia to colitis.
> 
> I'm scared it's something more serious...
> Has this ever happened to anyone pet cat (s)?
> 
> What do you think it is ? Thank you for this thread I hope to get some answers please.


Hi KoolK, sorry that your kitten is unwell it's really worrying and we have all been through similar issues but this is a very useful site. 
What Bcats said is right, my boy Mika had really bad diahorrea and weight loss. He had all the tests and they all came back negative. Had a dose of metronidazole which did nothing and then as IBD was suspected began on Prednicare 1 mg a day. I was also advised to put him on a mono diet of a protein that he had never eaten. Don't bother with the food allergies test as it's unreliable and led me down the wrong road until Chilliminx contacted me. That was the turning point I had suspected that food was the cause or contributor. You can read more if you look at my posts he has had a bit of a journey.
To cut a long story short get in contact with Chilliminx she is very knowledgeable. Having tried numerous foods from Happy Kitty and Zooplus all of which made no difference, and it's a long process transitioning from one to another, Mika's recovery started with Chilliminx advice. I put Mika on 3 weeks of steamed white fish as he is definitely allergic to chicken then went onto the Terra Faelis Rabbit and Broccoli and finally he began doing solid poo. He is now on a raw diet which I get from Purrform and he is thriving.
I wish you all the best and let me know how you get on.


----------



## KoolK

bcats said:


> I am not eligible for the PDSA. I went straight to my vet. Not sure if PDSA do PCR test which is a faeces test. You have to take the faeces over three consecutive days. There are other tests that are cheaper but not very reliable. I think in your position I would try PDSA. The treatment was not expensive just the tests. For these infections vets usually give Panacur paste and the antibiotic Metrobactin. That will not treat Tritrichomonas if she has that. You said she is a kitten. How old? Has the vet given her anything for diarrhea. They usually prescribe Prokolin for that. Get another opinion ASAP. If she has diarrhea she will dehydrate.


She is 8 months old
The nurse just said to put her onto a bland diet 
By the time the vets appointment came that particular bout of dihorrea had gone.
But it's come back now again
I will give her the chicken bland diet again.


----------



## KoolK

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi KoolK, sorry that your kitten is unwell it's really worrying and we have all been through similar issues but this is a very useful site.
> What Bcats said is right, my boy Mika had really bad diahorrea and weight loss. He had all the tests and they all came back negative. Had a dose of metronidazole which did nothing and then as IBD was suspected began on Prednicare 1 mg a day. I was also advised to put him on a mono diet of a protein that he had never eaten. Don't bother with the food allergies test as it's unreliable and led me down the wrong road until Chilliminx contacted me. That was the turning point I had suspected that food was the cause or contributor. You can read more if you look at my posts he has had a bit of a journey.
> To cut a long story short get in contact with Chilliminx she is very knowledgeable. Having tried numerous foods from Happy Kitty and Zooplus all of which made no difference, and it's a long process transitioning from one to another, Mika's recovery started with Chilliminx advice. I put Mika on 3 weeks of steamed white fish as he is definitely allergic to chicken then went onto the Terra Faelis Rabbit and Broccoli and finally he began doing solid poo. He is now on a raw diet which I get from Purrform and he is thriving.
> I wish you all the best and let me know how you get on.


That's great.
Thank you for all your advice.
I will definitely try and get into contact with @chillminx soon.
Tell me more about your journey with your baby !
How much do you pay a year for a raw diet? Im scared she will get poisoned if I do it wrong etc

My second opinion will be PDSA which I will be contacting soon hopefully 
She did do a poo today and in her new litter tray but it was still dihorra but no blood that i could see... nothing has changed .


----------



## Burmese Boy

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi KoolK, sorry that your kitten is unwell it's really worrying and we have all been through similar issues but this is a very useful site.
> What Bcats said is right, my boy Mika had really bad diahorrea and weight loss. He had all the tests and they all came back negative. Had a dose of metronidazole which did nothing and then as IBD was suspected began on Prednicare 1 mg a day. I was also advised to put him on a mono diet of a protein that he had never eaten. Don't bother with the food allergies test as it's unreliable and led me down the wrong road until Chilliminx contacted me. That was the turning point I had suspected that food was the cause or contributor. You can read more if you look at my posts he has had a bit of a journey.
> To cut a long story short get in contact with Chilliminx she is very knowledgeable. Having tried numerous foods from Happy Kitty and Zooplus all of which made no difference, and it's a long process transitioning from one to another, Mika's recovery started with Chilliminx advice. I put Mika on 3 weeks of steamed white fish as he is definitely allergic to chicken then went onto the Terra Faelis Rabbit and Broccoli and finally he began doing solid poo. He is now on a raw diet which I get from Purrform and he is thriving.
> I wish you all the best and let me know how you get on.


Hi, l am not eligible for the PDSA and took him to my vet. He has had the poo test which you take over 3 days and they test for worms and parasites, also a full blood test which covers liver, kidneys and pancreas etc and an allergy test, which to be fair to my vet I asked for he did not suggest that one.
My vet suspected IBD from the outset, l did not have a colonoscopy or have him opened up for a biopsy on his intestines as l felt they were too invasive and would be a last resort. My instinct was it was diet related and I hoped to control it that way. It seems to be working but has been a costly process. I did a lot of research on IBD and food issues. 
He has been on steroids for 8 months, they help with the inflammation, and is now on I/2 tab every 3 days and l am planning to have him off them soon and hope that the food will continue to control his IBD. Only time will tell.
The tests are expensive but I don't know how the PDSA works.


----------



## KoolK

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi, l am not eligible for the PDSA and took him to my vet. He has had the poo test which you take over 3 days and they test for worms and parasites, also a full blood test which covers liver, kidneys and pancreas etc and an allergy test, which to be fair to my vet I asked for he did not suggest that one.
> My vet suspected IBD from the outset, l did not have a colonoscopy or have him opened up for a biopsy on his intestines as l felt they were too invasive and would be a last resort. My instinct was it was diet related and I hoped to control it that way. It seems to be working but has been a costly process. I did a lot of research on IBD and food issues.
> He has been on steroids for 8 months, they help with the inflammation, and is now on I/2 tab every 3 days and l am planning to have him off them soon and hope that the food will continue to control his IBD. Only time will tell.
> The tests are expensive but I don't know how the PDSA works.


True that ALL does seem VERY expensive
Poor kitty I'm happy he is much better !
What was the food process? What do you feed him now? How much do you pay a year? How long does it take to make?
Any other advice or tips?
What do you think my kitty has? IBD? cocodia? Don't know myself ... :-(


----------



## KoolK

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi, l am not eligible for the PDSA and took him to my vet. He has had the poo test which you take over 3 days and they test for worms and parasites, also a full blood test which covers liver, kidneys and pancreas etc and an allergy test, which to be fair to my vet I asked for he did not suggest that one.
> My vet suspected IBD from the outset, l did not have a colonoscopy or have him opened up for a biopsy on his intestines as l felt they were too invasive and would be a last resort. My instinct was it was diet related and I hoped to control it that way. It seems to be working but has been a costly process. I did a lot of research on IBD and food issues.
> He has been on steroids for 8 months, they help with the inflammation, and is now on I/2 tab every 3 days and l am planning to have him off them soon and hope that the food will continue to control his IBD. Only time will tell.
> The tests are expensive but I don't know how the PDSA works.


I did create my own thread if you want to offer me any more advice


----------



## Burmese Boy

KoolK said:


> That's great.
> Thank you for all your advice.
> I will definitely try and get into contact with @chillminx soon.
> Tell me more about your journey with your baby !
> How much do you pay a year for a raw diet? Im scared she will get poisoned if I do it wrong etc
> 
> My second opinion will be PDSA which I will be contacting soon hopefully
> She did do a poo today and in her new litter tray but it was still dihorra but no blood that i could see... nothing has changed .


Hi again, the raw costs around £2 a day, but it's the postage that adds to that and you need enough freezer room, l bulk buy the 450 gram tubs. I would not attempt the raw until you know what you are dealing with, l had already established that Mika could tolerate rabbit and was doing solid poo so I took a deep breath and started mixing raw with the Terra Faelis.
Just after his first vet to the vet last Sept he went missing for 16 days, it was a terrible time and we moved heaven and earth to find him. Eventually l found him because he was spotted by a lovely lady out for a walk with her baby. She assured me that it was indeed him because she could see the design on his collar. Over the previous 2 weeks I had received a number of false alerts as people kept seeing a cream Siamese who whilst very similar to Mika had bright blue eyes, whilst Mika's are green. He was in a terrible state when l got to him and had lost 25% of his body weight and very scared and distressed.


----------



## KoolK

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi again, the raw costs around £2 a day, but it's the postage that adds to that and you need enough freezer room, l bulk buy the 450 gram tubs. I would not attempt the raw until you know what you are dealing with, l had already established that Mika could tolerate rabbit and was doing solid poo so I took a deep breath and started mixing raw with the Terra Faelis.
> Just after his first vet to the vet last Sept he went missing for 16 days, it was a terrible time and we moved heaven and earth to find him. Eventually l found him because he was spotted by a lovely lady out for a walk with her baby. She assured me that it was indeed him because she could see the design on his collar. Over the previous 2 weeks I had received a number of false alerts as people kept seeing a cream Siamese who whilst very similar to Mika had bright blue eyes, whilst Mika's are green. He was in a terrible state when l got to him and had lost 25% of his body weight and very scared and distressed.


Oh no 
Sorry to hear that... I'm happy he's home and safe 
Of course I won't try the raw yet.
I think I'm going to put her on a bland diet first to get her POOP stable.
What do you think my next steps should be from here?


----------



## Burmese Boy

KoolK said:


> I did create my own thread if you want to offer me any more advice


Hi I am not an expert and can only tell you about my experience with Mika's IBD, once you have a diagnosis from the PDSA you can decide as it may not be food related. Yes do speak to Chilliminx. Good Luck.


----------



## bcats

Burmese Boy said:


> Hi KoolK, sorry that your kitten is unwell it's really worrying and we have all been through similar issues but this is a very useful site.
> What Bcats said is right, my boy Mika had really bad diahorrea and weight loss. He had all the tests and they all came back negative. Had a dose of metronidazole which did nothing and then as IBD was suspected began on Prednicare 1 mg a day. I was also advised to put him on a mono diet of a protein that he had never eaten. Don't bother with the food allergies test as it's unreliable and led me down the wrong road until Chilliminx contacted me. That was the turning point I had suspected that food was the cause or contributor. You can read more if you look at my posts he has had a bit of a journey.
> To cut a long story short get in contact with Chilliminx she is very knowledgeable. Having tried numerous foods from Happy Kitty and Zooplus all of which made no difference, and it's a long process transitioning from one to another, Mika's recovery started with Chilliminx advice. I put Mika on 3 weeks of steamed white fish as he is definitely allergic to chicken then went onto the Terra Faelis Rabbit and Broccoli and finally he began doing solid poo. He is now on a raw diet which I get from Purrform and he is thriving.
> I wish you all the best and let me know how you get on.


Very good advice


----------



## Paddypaws

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-018-1528-7
Putting this here in case it's of interest, @chillminx


----------



## bcats

Paddypaws said:


> https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-018-1528-7
> Putting this here in case it's of interest, @chillminx


What an eye opener. Most of us know this is going on but not to the extent of the results in the article. Thanks for posting.


----------



## TwoStrings

That is really interesting @Paddypaws. Thanks for sharing.

I've been lurking in this thread for a while and have had great advice from users elsewhere on the forum (from @chillminx especially) but I have some ongoing questions and thoughts that seemed to fit best in this thread.

Background:
We adopted Kubo just under a year ago. He's a British blue shorthair who is now approx 12 years old. After a lot of trouble with his diet and a good 6-8 months of on/off diarrhoea and vomiting we've now got him mostly settled. He had lots of tests (blood etc) and eventually the vet diagnosed IBD and after lots of research and months of miserable trial & error he's now eating Miamor Ragout Royale in the salmon and turkey flavours, and occasionally plain white fish if he's having a bit of a flare up. The diarrhoea has stopped but he still regularly has soft or sloppy poo. In an average week he usually has one or two days of perfect poo, two or three days where it's mainly solid but with a "dribble" on top, and at least one day where it's 50/50 (usually a solid stool with a dollop of wet stuff on top). This has been the standard since just after Christmas. The vet advised us to just stick with this new routine because it was a drastic improvement on the awful yellow diarrhoea and nightly vomiting. He was very underweight when we got him, but has since put on nearly 2kg, so we know we're doing something right! But clearly this hasn't solved the problem entirely. As well as soft poo he also regurgitates food every so often, maybe once a month. This is always straight after eating and is not actual vomit like it was when he was really bad - it's just the undigested chunks from a few moments earlier coming back up. He eats really fast though so it could just be that.

My question is, how much more improvement can/should I hope to see? Is this just his "normal", or should we keep trying for 10/10 poops across the board? I'm reluctant to change his diet because all attempts to do so have triggered the terrible diarrhoea, and the vet advised just leaving his bowel to settle for a few months. But it has now been 6 months and I'm wondering if it's worth trying again. I've also read that IBD can become cancer if left untreated so I want to be sure I'm doing my best for him long term. I've also read that probiotics can help but I'm wary of these too...I gave him some prebiotic paste earlier this year and it triggered the diarrhoea. I'm not really sure what the difference between pro and prebiotic...or where to start? Some of the products I've looked at seem to have both!

My second question is, what can I give him as a treat food?! He can't tolerate any of the usual commercial treats we tried back when we first got him, and since the last bout of awful diarrhoea just before Christmas we've been too nervous to try anything new. I would love to be able to treat him now and then though! His diet is very dull (although he never has any trouble wolfing it down!)

Thanks for your advice as always!


----------



## bcats

I have been through a similar problem with my almost four year old girl. I know exactly what you are going through. Very stressful. Poppy was adopted by me in July 2016. Problems began within a couple of weeks. Massive poohs with blood. Her bowel movements were very irregular she would go around 36 to 48 hrs sometimes longer. The vet diognosed colitis. With advice from Chillminx I changed her diet which had very good results by giving her Catz Purrr Kangaroo. This I thought solved the problem but unfortunately a visit to a cattery resulted in diarrhea plus blood. I had a PCR test done (has your suggested this) the result was frightening. Five infections.
Giardia 
Tritrichomonas 
Coronavirus and C. Perfringens. I was horrified. Vet put her on to Panacur paste for five days then a follow up dose. Did not work. Then antibiotic Metrobactin for 21days. This also failed. I like you did a lot of research and had valuable advice from forums and my Australian Mist society face book group. I was continually advised by all to ask my vet to put her onto Ronidazole which is the only treatment to help Tritrichomonas. My vet said no because it can be neurotoxic to cats. Has to be monitored. I eventually took the plunge and found a vet who had experience in giving this treatment. This vet would only prescribe if cat positive Tritrichomonas which poppy was. Its now 11 weeks since poppy had any signs. The treatment caused no side effects. From what you have posted it sounds so similar to Poppy. If you have not had a PCR test done I advise you to do so. You have to take three pooh samples over three consecutive days then vet sends it off to a laboratory. There are other tests that are cheaper but not so accurate. I had two done for Poppy they cost around £140 but well worth it. I do hope that your little cat improves. Re pre biotics and Probiotics. Pro biotics feed on Prebiotic. I give Poppy Synbiotic you can get this on line. Another product I gave her was VBS Clay. This was recommended by a homeopathic vet. It will help control her diarrhoea and protect her digestive system . I also feed her on Specific Digestive Support wet. I sprinkle a small amount of Royal Canin Sensitivity control over the top. I don't like kibble but will continue until I am absolutely sure she is ok. I don't think Poppy has an allergy to certain meat but I always look for a single protein if I can so I will gradually get her back onto single protein of good quality. Please feel free to contact me if you need to.


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## TwoStrings

Thanks so much for your reply @bcats! That is very scary to hear! I hope Poppy is doing much better now?

Kubo has been in and out of the vet so many times in the last year (once a week for the 2 months leading up to Christmas) and somehow none of the four different vets I've seen have mentioned PCR tests! I've just Googled the infections you mention and none of them especially stand out as matching his symptoms exactly but I will definitely be looking out for any signs of them and will ask the vet about it at our next appointment. Kubo has actually had two courses of metronidazole/metrobactin as an anti-inflammatory and it's the only thing that stopped the diarrhoea - the effect was almost immediate which makes me think it's more likely down to inflammation that infection but I'm happy to be corrected on that (I'm definitely no expert!)

He's not actually had a diarrhoea flare up since Christmas (I tried to switch to Catz kangaroo and it didn't agree!) - it just alternates between perfect poo and soft/sloppy poo from day to day. I don't know if that's typical of IBD though, or if that suggests an infection?

Did your girl seem unwell apart from the diarrhoea? Kubo seems totally fine in himself at the moment - and so much better than last summer when he was vomiting every night and was listless and sad for a good few weeks, poor boy.

After doing some research I've ordered some Bioglan online to try for now...I'll see how it goes and talk to the vet about PCR tests.

Thanks again for your advice!


----------



## bcats

TwoStrings said:


> Thanks so much for your reply @bcats! That is very scary to hear! I hope Poppy is doing much better now?
> 
> Kubo has been in and out of the vet so many times in the last year (once a week for the 2 months leading up to Christmas) and somehow none of the four different vets I've seen have mentioned PCR tests! I've just Googled the infections you mention and none of them especially stand out as matching his symptoms exactly but I will definitely be looking out for any signs of them and will ask the vet about it at our next appointment. Kubo has actually had two courses of metronidazole/metrobactin as an anti-inflammatory and it's the only thing that stopped the diarrhoea - the effect was almost immediate which makes me think it's more likely down to inflammation that infection but I'm happy to be corrected on that (I'm definitely no expert!)
> 
> He's not actually had a diarrhoea flare up since Christmas (I tried to switch to Catz kangaroo and it didn't agree!) - it just alternates between perfect poo and soft/sloppy poo from day to day. I don't know if that's typical of IBD though, or if that suggests an infection?
> 
> Did your girl seem unwell apart from the diarrhoea? Kubo seems totally fine in himself at the moment - and so much better than last summer when he was vomiting every night and was listless and sad for a good few weeks, poor boy.
> 
> After doing some research I've ordered some Bioglan online to try for now...I'll see how it goes and talk to the vet about PCR tests.
> 
> Thanks again for your advice!


Very surprised that your vet hasn't suggested a PCR test. Metrobactin / Metronidozle is an antibiotic. It did help the Giardia and C. Perfringens but not Tritrichomonas. Sometimes metrobactin has to be given again for Giardia. There are many infections that cats are susceptible to. What you discribe is much like Tritrichomonas which comes and goes. Cats with this infection often show no signs of illness unless the diarrhea is severe and they lose weight or become dehydrated. Poppy's pooh started normal and ended up with a cowpat like splodge at the end. This is the second cat I have had with Tritrichomonas so I do know the symptoms. You think it has gone then it starts again after a few weeks. There is a lot of info on line about it. Ronidazole is not licensed in the uk for cats. All I can say is that so far poppy has improved a 100% since the treatment. I have more pills should she show any more symptoms. The vet then will advise me what to do next. A full PCR test will show any infections or viruses that your cat may have


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## Paddypaws

@TwoStrings have you tried freeze dried treats such as Thrive or Cosma snackies? Single protein with no additives. 
Re the clay mentioned I buy from eBay for my girl probe to sloppy poo and many people do find the Bioglan helpful.


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## bcats

Paddypaws said:


> View attachment 359304
> @TwoStrings have you tried freeze dried treats such as Thrive or Cosma snackies? Single protein with no additives.
> Re the clay mentioned I buy from eBay for my girl probe to sloppy poo and many people do find the Bioglan helpful.


Re the freeze dried treats. I give those to Poppy.


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## TwoStrings

Thanks @bcats! Yes, I'm surprised they haven't suggested it too. I'll definitely ask them about it and see if we can get him tested.

Metrobactin is also used as an anti-inflammatory, which is what it was prescribed for in Kubo's case - to calm the inflamed bowel, which worked like a charm (I've got an emergency stash in the cupboard just in case he needs it again!)

Thanks so much for the treat suggestions @Paddypaws! I haven't tried those, so I'll give them a go. Fingers crossed!


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## chillminx

@Paddypaws - many thanks for posting the link to the study on novel protein diets (NPD) and hydrolised protein diets (HPD) for cats and dogs. A very interesting read indeed!

I was quite disappointed though to see only the result of one wet NPD for cats being tested, (the rest were all dog foods). The result found for the wet cat food tested was that chicken liver and fish oil had been included in an NPD wet food which had been labelled as just chicken.

In a couple of the HPD wet foods for cats there was found to be soya that was undeclared. But I have never trusted HPD foods to contain what they claim to contain, and I would not use them for any cat I suspect to have food allergies.

From my POV, when using a novel protein diet (NPD) for an elimination diet for a cat, I observe the following rules:

1/ no dry food at all - not even those which claim to be' mono protein' (as one of Macs does) as I can't rely on only a novel protein being in the recipe !

2/ no wet foods that state "meat byproducts" are included - because I fear that could conceal any kind of meat.

3/ no wet foods that contain added fish oil (as fish is not a novel protein).

To meet these criteria I recommend the Catz Finefood Purrr range of novel protein foods, or the Vet Concept foods. I do believe the manufacturers to be, (at least to the best of my knowledge,) transparent about their ingredients.

The Purrrr range does not list 'meat byproducts' as being an ingredient. The only ingredient listed that's not related to the specified animal meat used in the recipe is the added oil, usually borage oil, or rapeseed, which are not traditionally used in cat foods, and are therefore 'new' to the cat.

Vet Concept's novel protein diets do list in their ingredients 'animal by products' but state these are the byproducts of the animal whose meat is used in the recipe. e.g. "Meat and animal byproducts (kangaroo)". "Meat and animal byproducts (reindeer)" etc .

https://www.vet-concept.com/für-die-katze/nassnahrung/katzenmenü-känguru

Vet Concept (unlike the Purrr range) includes a small percentage of vegetables in their recipes (but not soya or pea protein which are used in some ordinary cat food diets)

Fortunately I did not have a problem with either of the above makes when I used them for elimination diets with 3 of my cats. They all however preferred the taste of the Purrrr range instead of the Vet Concept range, so I stuck with Purrr.

If there had been a continued problem with food allergies on the wet food, my next step would have been to buy the raw meat (e.g. kangaroo) and either cook it myself, or serve it raw to them. Using it over an 8 week period for an elimination diet, I would have added taurine and calcium supplements at least.


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## chillminx

@TwoStrings - just to mention, that Miamor Ragout Royale wet foods do contain 'meat byproducts' and therefore it is possible that the Salmon and the Turkey flavours contain other meats e.g. chicken. The makers claim their foods are 'beef free' in fact, and do not state their foods are single protein, so really they could contain any meats (except - probably - beef).

I appreciate it is difficult when you've been through so much effort trying to find foods that agree with Kubo, to then start considering further changes to his diet. However, I would myself with my cats want to aim for firm poos "most of the time" if possible, with perhaps only an occasional soft poo.

As far as prebiotics go, my two boys with IBD do not get on with it. One got flatulence when I added it, and the other got diarrhoea.

I do add a very small amount of probiotic to their food every couple of days. If I add more than a very small amount they get diarrhoea. Sometimes I stop adding it for a week, in case I am overdoing it.

Treats - as already mentioned by someone else - I give Thrive or Cosma dried protein treats. I get through quite large amounts of these each month and I wish they weren't so expensive!


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## KoolK

Hi all
I honestly do think that snowy has IBD/IBS.. difference?

Basically she has flare ups every so often.. Maybe once a week every month mostly less... where she gets a few days of runny dihorea with blood and sometimes even vomited up her food again 

I have been to the vet who gave her metrobactin I think it's called and probiotics. The antibiotic above did help and it went away alongside the use of the probiotic and she was much better but now it's started again!

What causes IBS/IBD?
is it my fault..? Because I kept changing her food when she was younger?? She's 10 months old now.

She's currently on Felix kitten which I know isn't the best... I was thinking of slowly moving her over to animonda VF neutered ...? Does anyone else feed there IBD/IBS cat this ? Or feed their cat in general?

I have tried so many things and I don't know why but every single cat that comes into my care always has some sort if issue... I know this happens and I need to remain calm but I'm a big worrier!

She sometimes can't control the dihorra and begins pooping outside of the litter box EVERYWHERE so I now know that when this happens to keep her in her own one room

What causes her to flare up I don't know... especially this time... nothing has changed in terms of her environment or food and she seems normal as before 

What can I do to help her?
Any advice please?

Thanks


----------



## bcats

You


KoolK said:


> Hi all
> I honestly do think that snowy has IBD/IBS.. difference?
> 
> Basically she has flare ups every so often.. Maybe once a week every month mostly less... where she gets a few days of runny dihorea with blood and sometimes even vomited up her food again
> 
> I have been to the vet who gave her metrobactin I think it's called and probiotics. The antibiotic above did help and it went away alongside the use of the probiotic and she was much better but now it's started again!
> 
> What causes IBS/IBD?
> is it my fault..? Because I kept changing her food when she was younger?? She's 10 months old now.
> 
> She's currently on Felix kitten which I know isn't the best... I was thinking of slowly moving her over to animonda VF neutered ...? Does anyone else feed there IBD/IBS cat this ? Or feed their cat in general?
> 
> I have tried so many things and I don't know why but every single cat that comes into my care always has some sort if issue... I know this happens and I need to remain calm but I'm a big worrier!
> 
> She sometimes can't control the dihorra and begins pooping outside of the litter box EVERYWHERE so I now know that when this happens to keep her in her own one room
> 
> What causes her to flare up I don't know... especially this time... nothing has changed in terms of her environment or food and she seems normal as before
> 
> What can I do to help her?
> Any advice please?
> 
> Thanks


What a worry for you. I have been through exactly the same problem with Poppy. Symptoms very similar but diarrhea not so violent with blood. Has your vet suggested a PCR test ?. This is a test where you send in specimens of the poo to a laboratory. Sounds to me that your cat has an infection. Poppy had a few infections .Giardia, Tritricomonis being two of them. Symptoms are very similar. Poppy was given Metrobactin also Panicure paste which is a wormer but treats giardia. Sometimes it needs two or more treatment. It was the Tritriomonis that we had problems with
Metrobactin does not cure this. Only one treatment for this which is Ronedizole. This is not licenced for cats in UK. Your vet has to have it made up in a laboratory the dose is made up for your cats weight. Many vets do no like prescribing this drug as it has been reported to be neurotoxic. I did have misgivings about giving it to poppy but after a lot of advice from this forum and a group I belong to I decided to give it a go. I consulted a vet who was experienced in treating Tritricomonis and we started the treatment. 21 days of the pills. I watched poppy very carefully for any side effects , there were none. Side effects are usually caused by too higher dose. If there are any side effects the dose has to be stopped immediately. It's now almost four months since Poppys last diarrhea. She does have the very occasional what I call " A bit wet stuff ". I give her VBS clay for that. It's possible in poppys case that the infections have caused damage to her gut so I am very careful what I feed her on. She has Specific digestive support. Fussy madam that's all she will eat. I'm sure you will get some advice from Chillminx on this forum. She has been so supportive very knowledgeable on diet. She will probably advise a single protein food to rule out allergy. The important thing is to get the PCR test done
Expensive around £140 pounds. At least you will then know what you are dealing with. The VBS clay will help the diarrhea and calm the gut. Please feel free to contact me .


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## TatiLie

Hi! I haven't been here in a while. 

My Ari has IBD and I'm joining the discussion. She's been in treatment for a couple of years already. Prednisone 2.5mg twice weekly, taurine daily, Royal Canin Veterinary food Intestinal. She had a good 4 months with good poo this year but she's in a couple of months of flare-up now. I've become the crazy cat lady that has a powerpoint with poo photos and a poo classification of her daily poos (I've never seen my vet laugh so hard when I told him). 

I'm dying to read the 175 pages and see what has worked for you!


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## TriTri

TatiLie said:


> Hi! I haven't been here in a while.
> 
> My Ari has IBD and I'm joining the discussion. She's been in treatment for a couple of years already. Prednisone 2.5mg twice weekly, taurine daily, Royal Canin Veterinary food Intestinal. She had a good 4 months with good poo this year but she's in a couple of months of flare-up now. I've become the crazy cat lady that has a powerpoint with poo photos and a poo classification of her daily poos (I've never seen my vet laugh so hard when I told him).
> 
> I'm dying to read the 175 pages and see what has worked for you!


Hi @TatiLie

Sorry to hear your Ari has IBD and is having a flare up. I have an IBD cat too. Sounds like Ari is on a low dose of steroids, that's something.

You made me laugh with your poo logs, as my Tessytwoshoes has a book where I log her daily output and give it marks out of 100! It's nice to know I'm not the only crazy cat lady out there 

How old is your Ari? Any other medical conditions?

Best of luck anyway, Tri Tri.


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## TatiLie

TriTri said:


> Hi @TatiLie
> 
> Sorry to hear your Ari has IBD and is having a flare up. I have an IBD cat too. Sounds like Ari is on a low dose of steroids, that's something.
> 
> You made me laugh with your poo logs, as my Tessytwoshoes has a book where I log her daily output and give it marks out of 100! It's nice to know I'm not the only crazy cat lady out there
> 
> How old is your Ari? Any other medical conditions?
> 
> Best of luck anyway, Tri Tri.


Tri Tri, you make me so happy to know that you also log and grade poos! It makes very easy to understand when things are getting better or worse!! Usually, my vet says that he wishes other clients were like me, but when I said "I have a powerpoint with pictures her poos to keep track of her improvement" he just bent over laughing. 

Ari is 8-year-old moggy and has always had poos on the soft side, and she's doing very well healthwise apart from this. She's 1kg overweight but the vet is very happy with her overall. She has been tested for other parasites, and had different types of AB therapy, and she's an indoor/catproofed garden only. The first time she had colitis was after spending time in a cattery. She has had ultrasound tests but not a biopsy, and spends in average a couple of nights a year at the vet getting IV fluids. We're still very confused if treatment is working or not. She had been in higher doses which did not improve her poos. The special Royal Canin Veterinary food has also not been consistent with improvement (and as someone who previously fed her grainfree of all available food in zooplus, you can imagine the pain it caused me). The addition of taurine and strict restrictions of treats and other foods helped before but not anymore. Unless she's managing to sneak food from my other cat's feeder (we have Surefeed but she's very eager to pull to tray or push Rocco away when he's eating!). Her flare ups coincide with my school holidays. Anyway, more on my suspicions later as I'm yet to check all the posts on this thread and I want to check if someone has had the same experience


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## Burmese Boy

Hello, just want to add my experience, my boy has IBD, and I have posted previously on this site - where I came for help. It took me a long, long, long time to sort Mika out buying up half of Zooplus various brand food (only to be distributed round my friends) to find food that did not pass straight through him. 

What has worked for Mika is raw. He has been on this for a number of months now and has solid poo every day. He is thriving and his coat is like silk and shiny. He is no longer on any medication. 

It was a leap of faith but my gut instinct always felt it would be right. Chilliminx helped me along the way with invaluable advice. Never feed dried, and a lot of commercial foods contain bad by- products. Cats are carnivores, they can’t process lots of what is in commercial food. 

Raw is not for all cats and some won’t touch it, my other one won’t. But it’s worked for me and I get mine from Purrform.


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## LauraC86

My 7 year old cat has just been diagnosed with IBD and we have been struggling to get weight on him even though he is eating. We have been feeding him royal canin sensitive food, wet and dry. He doesn't have any diarrhoea, however he was sick yesterday morning. We are going to try the hydrolysed hypoallergenic dry food but I'm.pretty sure he won't be happy without having wet food of some sort. He was on steroids but we stopped giving them to him when he had his biopsy which confirmed IBD and he hasn't been back on them since as he's still recovering. He's got a vets appt today and we are hoping his wound has healed enough so he is OK to have his collar off so he can go outside as I think that's what's frustrating him the most at the moment . Any advice on food etc would be great!


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## chillminx

Hi @LauraC86 and welcome 

I am sorry to hear about your cat having IBD. I have two 9 yr old cats with IBD (brothers) and fortunately I am able to manage their condition with diet. Neither of them has steroids. One has antacids for short periods if he needs them (this is famotidine).

When my cats first became ill with frequent vomiting (soon after I adopted them when they were 16 mths old) I put them both on exclusion diets to identify which meat proteins they are allergic to (or intolerant of). From this I learnt they are intolerant of beef, fish (except white fish), lamb, venison and rabbit. They also do better on a diet that is low in offal and lowish in fat (it is not unusual in IBD for cats to cope better with lower fat levels in their food).

I feed my cats no dry food because any make of kibble I tried made their symptoms worse. I only ever gave them a little dry food as treats but once I stopped that altogether it helped. Instead I give them the Thrive treats which are freeze dried pure protein.

My cats have a diet of turkey, chicken or duck cat food, along with home cooked low-fat minced pork twice a week, plus fried lambs kidney twice a week and poached white fish once a week. The main part of their diet is Animonda Vom Feinsten for neutered cats, Turkey pure. It is easy for them to digest, and is low in offal and lowish in fats.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/animonda/trays/523945

Leonardo Pure Poultry canned food :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/leonardo/wet_food/478464

Concept for Life for sterilised cats :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...concept_for_life/specialised_nutrition/618401

and Miamor Mild Meals Pure Poultry with Ham :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/miamor/miamor_trays/42061

Note - some people with IBD cats find the cats do better on a balanced raw diet. I did spend a month trying my cats with raw, (lamb, pork, rabbit, turkey) which they loved, but any of the raw meats made their vomiting much worse, so I had to stop. But I think my cats' reaction may be unusual. There are various online groups which offer support for raw feeding to IBD cats. (See Facebook)

I can't say whether any of the cat foods I've listed above would suit your cat, because every cat with IBD will have their own individual needs. I am only giving you an idea of the kind of foods to look for if you decide to feed a wet food diet (as opposed to a raw diet) .

e.g.
wet food only, or home cooked (or balanced raw) no dry food.
single protein where possible,
containing meat protein, no vegetable protein,
grain free
no added sugars.


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## JJ-Jedi

Hi. I’m maybe one of the few people here who hopes their cat does have IBD. Otherwise it’s even more serious. Currently at a loss to do. He’s dying due to malnutrition....

My 10 year old male cat has been losing weight after a few months. He went from 4.3kg to what he is now 3.1kg. He’s just not eating turns his nose up at everything and hasn’t eaten in 5 days now. He’s not drinking much either. 6 days ago he started to get bad diarrhoea, just liquid with blood,which is when he stopped eating. He had a bout of diarrhoea a few months ago, which is when he started to lose weight after. (My other cat had some strange diarrhoea and sickness two weeks before this) He’s now very weak and lethargic. Vets this week have done ultrascan and full external lab blood count and urine test. All are good results. (Although slightly high red blood count which could be bone marrow problem but I also heard diarrhoea can cause this)
It’s most likely a gut problem either IBD or cancer or maybe even some sort of baterial disease or some strange virus. he’s an indoor cat but has been in contact with some feral cats a few months ago. None of them have fiv or feVL. I don’t know what to do. Thinking of getting the vet to put him on an iv for nutrients and then keeping him in for 2-3 days to try build his appetite back up. I feel the fact he has true anorexia is causing him to feel so ill and just sitting under bed all day hiding. Is it worth a go? I’m not sure what other options we have. He’s been sick a few times but not many times. It’s mainly diarrhoea. Vet said ultrascan yesterday showed he has fluid in his gut, but it’s not good as he hasn’t eaten. He’s so thin and weak.
The ultrasound scan showed his organs are all ok currently.

Can’t get a stool sample because it’s just liquid and vet said that’s no good.

He’s had steroid injections and vitamin B and also anti sickness and pain relief. None seem to be improving his condition and bringing his appetite back. He’s just laying under bed all day every day 

I know a biopsy can often diagnose cancer but right now I think he’s too weak to go through that.


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## chillminx

Hello @JJ-Jedi and welcome 

I am sorry to hear your cat is so poorly. I can understand how worrying it must be for you.

When a cat stops eating it can sometimes be really difficult to get them eating again - I have been there with some of my cats (both past and present). It is as though they give up the will to live. The problem is that not eating for 5 days can result in a nasty illness called liver lipidosis, and this is a matter for urgent vet treatment. When did the vet last see him?

It is now very urgent for you to get your cat eating again, if you are to save him. As he has diarrhoea he should be on a diet of home cooked chicken drumsticks or poached white fish, both served with plenty of the cooking juices. Have you tried him with either of those?

For a sick cat who is not eating it is important to stop presenting them with their usual foods. They have started to associate their normal diet with feeling ill, i.e. they blame the food for how they feel.

Instead go now to your nearest pet store or supermarket and buy a selection of about 5 or 6 different wet cat foods. Then put a teaspoonful of each food, one by one, on a plate and set it near him. Do not feed him dry food, wet food only.

Things you can do to encourage him to eat one of the new foods:

1/grind up a couple of cat treats in a new pepper grinder and sprinkle the powder on top of his wet food.
or

2/ sprinkle a little powdered cat nip on top of his food

3/ buy some Thrive freeze dried cat treats in a strong flavour (such as white fish) and break the cubes into pieces and put on his food

4/ liquidise one of the new wet foods in a blender so he can lap it. (don't add water as wet food has a high percentage of water and will become liquid in the blender)

5/ if he won't accept any of the new foods, try him with a little canned tuna for humans - get the one in spring water.

If he is not drinking a lot to compensate for not eating I am very worried he will become dehydrated. He will also need his electrolytes replaced if he is not drinking much or eating anything. Dehydration will make him feel very ill and left untreated will kill him.

Has he had IV fluids at the vet in the past few days? Have a look at his gums - if they are pale and dry looking then he is dehydrated and you need to get him to the vet today. if the gums are moist and pink then he is not dehydrated.

Also you can lift the skin of his scruff between your thumb and forefinger and then let it go. It should spring back almost like elastic. if it stays in a 'tent' position then he is dehydrated.

I would also prepare yourself for force feeding your cat - in case he won't eat any of the new foods you buy for him today.

For force feeding you need to buy a can of Hills Recovery food from the vet. This is highly nutritious and the cat will not need much of it. You also need some food syringes (pharmacies sell them, or the vet may sell you one). The Hills can be used straight from the can, but once the food has been in the fridge it will harden a bit and you may need to warm a small portion in the microwave for 5 seconds to loosen it up a bit. Don't feed it to the cat until you are sure it has cooled down. (Store the Hills in the fridge a plastic food container with a lid or in a small ceramic or glass bowl with a saucer on top. Do not store it in the tin. )

Fill the syringe, then gently squeeze a little food into the _*corner of your cat's mouth, never into the front of his mouth.*_ Only a small amount at a time and always wait for him to swallow before you give any more, otherwise there is a risk he could aspirate (inhale) the food and it will go into his lungs and cause pneumonia.

Here is a good video showing how it is done :






Please get a can of Hills Recovery food from the vet today and if your cat has refused all the new foods you offer him today then you need to start the force feeding by this evening. Note, that he may not be as docile as the cat in the video, and you will need to be careful not to cause him more stress in his current delicate state. He will need small amounts of food about 3 times a day. You can continue to offer the new foods between the syringe feeds and once he is eating independently stop the force feeding.

Good luck, please let us know how things go. Sending many healing thoughts for your cat's recovery.


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## chillminx

@JJ-Jedi - hi, did you get some new foods for your cat to try, and if he refused them, have you managed to start syringe feeding with the Hills Recovery food? I have been worried about him all day.


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## JJ-Jedi

Thank you for the in-depth message. I decided to drop him into the vets for the weekend where he will get critical care. I’ve been told I can visit him this afternoon. He will love that and it will lift his spirits.
Monday I’m taking him to the RVCS specialist hospital in potters bar for a biopsy and CT scan if needed. Thank you for your lovely message I will keep you updated


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## chillminx

@JJ-Jedi - many thanks for your update. I am relieved you took him to the vet and that he has been admitted for a couple of days. I think it's for the best.

Also pleased to hear he will be seen by the RCVS specialist on Monday. I do hope they can diagnose what is wrong, and it is something treatable. I will be very pleased to hear your update.

EDIT: I meant to say earlier, what a very handsome cat he is. I love LH black and white cats.


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## RatsnCatnKids

Hi! I have a 9 year old cat. She had a 'dodgy' tummy on and off for the first few years but nothing much different to any other outdoor cats we've had. It's got worse over the last 4 years or so and she started pooing (diarrhoea) in the house. She wasn't grooming and got very thin. She has 6-monthly vet checks and is much improved on Peridale daily and Royal Canin Sensitive wet and dry food. We feed her in the utility room at night where she has a cat flap. The indoor pooing has stopped and she's gained weight and grooms now. However she still gets muscle spasms whilst she's sleeping and in the last day or so these are now making her moan/harrumph in what I presume is pain. The vet said at the last visit that the only thing left to try is to change her diet again. I swopped the Sensitive dry for Digestive dry as she seems to find this easier to eat as they're thinner.
Any suggestions please? I don't want to keep changing her diet "willy-nilly" (lol) as it affects her so much.
Thank you!


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## chillminx

Hi, @RatsnCatnKids - I wouldn't give a cat with digestive problems any dry food at all, but either 100% wet food, or else a balanced raw diet.

Dry foods contain a lot of carbs which are not digested by the cat because they lack the necessary enzyme in their systems. Many dry foods - certainly the Royal Canin ones- contain grains such as maize, wheat, barley etc and some cats are allergic to grains. So dry foods can make a digestive problem worse.

The fact the diarrhoea stopped on a dry food diet is probably due to the fact she's not been drinking enough water to hydrate a dry food diet properly, so by the time the food waste reaches her colon, all the available moisture has been absorbed through the bowel wall for her other organs. On dry food she would need to drink about half a pint of water a day and not many cats do that. The risk is she could develop chronic low level dehydration, which while it may stop the diarrhoea will not be good for her kidneys, bladder and other organs.

There is a possibility she has a food allergy. This can be the case with some cats who have a history of "dodgy tummies". To be certain this is the case you would have to put her on a special elimination diet, which involves feeding her a novel protein diet for 8 weeks, nothing else except water. A "novel protein" is a meat protein she has never eaten e.g. kangaroo, goat, horse, reindeer, venison.

Have her stools ever been tested at the lab for parasites or bacterial infections? To me that would be the first step to take as she is an outdoor cat and could easily have picked up something along the way. Only if her results were normal would I then embark on an elimination diet.

All the foods I mentioned above that could be used as "novel protein" are available online as canned wet food. If you decide to go ahead I can give you the links.


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## RatsnCatnKids

Hi! Thank you for your reply. I'll check the composition of the dry food as it's supposed to be specially for cats with bowel problems  as recommended by our vet. I think a stool test was done at some point. The biscuits are currently only part of her diet. Originally she was on dry food only but we introduced the wet food a couple of years ago. I will start cutting down on the biscuits now, rather than stopping then suddenly. Thank you again!


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## Callyq

I’m so glad this thread exists!

My cat (who is 19/20 years old) has IBD and we’ve just switched to a raw food diet as of yesterday and I’ve got my fingers crossed it works for him. We must have tried EVERYTHING on the zooplus website before settling on to Lily’s kitchen whisker lickin chicken food for a couple of years. 

He’s on daily medication of prednicortone but has recently started gaining weight after always losing a bit more at every vet visit so I’m pleased about ☺ 

I’m looking forward to reading this thread in depth in case there’s anything else I can do to help make Blake more comfortable,


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## Forester

Hi Callyq. My boy, only 6 years old, has IBD three times over ( 3 different types in 4 areas of his gut ). I switched him to raw 16 months ago and it's helped him immensely.

If you're interested , and have a spare 3 weeks or so to read the epic thread , the story of his transition is here https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/transitioning-a-cat-with-ibd-to-raw-a-diary.452218/ . I apologise that it's so long., nothing with an IBD sufferer ever goes according to plan as you will probably be well aware.

Wow, your cat is 19/20 years old. He/she has clearly been very well cared for.

Are you a member of the Fb Raw for IBD Group ?https://www.facebook.com/groups/RawFedIBD/

I've found them both extremely supportive and very knowledgeable.

The support on this forum is amazing too however for knowledge and experience you can't beat the Fb group.


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## Callyq

Thank you!

I should point out that Blake is a rescue so I’m unsure of his actual age, I feel as though in my last post it sounds as though I don’t know how old my own cat is

Sorry to hear your boy has 3 different types of IBD, I guess you know more than most then that it’s never easy?! I worry I’m doing the right thing, especially as we’re going through a flare up at the moment and it breaks my heart to see him under the weather.

I’ll make a start reading that thread thank you, it’s always helpful to see how other cats have managed the transition. I’ll join that Facebook group now!


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## Katten

About a year ago my 12 year old cat started throwing up visciously and having severe diarrhea without showing any other symptoms of being sick. He lost 2 kg of weight in 2 weeks, which can be lethal for a cat (he was overweight before).
But he was still in a good mood, playing as much as ever, friendly, no fever. Very strange, right?
This cat is terrified of riding in cars and because he showed no real sickness, just the indegestion problems, we decided to try to find the problem ourselves first - before taking a ride to the vet. We read and read and read about cats and indegestion disorders.

Vomiting was connected directly to eating, that much we figured. So we removed all food but pure meat. That helped. But because this would in the long run cause dental problems and malnutrition, we experimented with loads of recepies.
The poor cat could not eat vegetables without vomiting, nor salmon oil.
The vomiting, we concluded, was due to a sudden allergy to SALMON. Actually he ended up not being able to eat any kind of fish, poor thing.

The diarrhea continued, and we noticed a very uneven stool, sometimes superhard, sometimes loose. If it was hard it was weirdly shaped. This reminded me somewhat of my own IBS, before I was treated.
We learned about raw food being helpful.
Since vegetables was out of the question, as raw pork (because you MUST cook pork) and troubles with getting other raw meats it ended up being beef.
The raw meat was actually so helpful that we could carefully introduce hard bits with high meat content...no veggies, no salmon oil!

Today, one year later, our cat shows NO symptoms of his allergies or the intestinal problems, as long as we keep his diet very strict.

He eats 30 g of a soft, storebought food every evening. It has no salmon oil and a very high meat content and NO vegetables. That is his treat.
Throughout the day, whenever he is hungry, he gets first a tablespoon of raw ground beef and then 6 pebbles of hard food, high meat content-no veg-no salmon oil.
This works and he is more content, happier, prettier, at a good weight, than ever.

We also noticed that he could not be without food for too many hours, then he would show sympotoms of discomfort (meaowing, restless) and throw up when eating. So to prevent this and make sure all my cats have food to eat, I take a portion of hard pebbles and soak them, before I go to work and before I go to bed. This way, if a cat (we have three) is really, really hungry, when I cannot be there to feed it, it will have something to eat, and it has proven not to hurt our Smokey - the one with IBD and fish allergies.

I am so glad we solved his health issues withou having to put him in the terrifying car and take him to the horrible place with nasty loud barkers and whitecoated humans that pokes and prods. (From the cat´s perspective).

The reason we dared to try on our own was the fact that our cat was in good spirits. We were ready to go as soon as he dipped, but he never did, through the whole process.


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## huckybuck

Just a quick update on Little H 

13 weeks with no episode and he’s doing great.

I have cut out sea fish from his diet so no more encore or hi life.

He has been put onto Virbac Gastro dry which he is free fed - this had the highest meat content of all the sensitive/gastro/allergy foods that I could find. 

I am still feeding him Canagan chix (and ham/beef/duck/veg) on request though he only has a couple of tins a day. 

He’s had a haircut - not drastic but enough to bring him back to a proper semi longhair coat length.

I am giving him a number of hairball supplements each day along with a pre and pro biotic.

He has put a shed load of weight back on - so much so I need to look at putting him on diet! 


The only concern I have is that he is still over grooming - just his flanks - but he does literally tug and pull out his fur and eats it. This tends to be in the morning and in the evening when he’s grooming. If I could put a halt to that I would be very happy indeed. Not sure what to do really - maybe clip the fur close in those areas so he can’t get a grip or try the PR wipes there. Any other ideas welcome as atm I just try to stop him when I catch him doing it.


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## chillminx

@huckybuck -

Hi hun, great to hear from you, and to have an update on Little H's progress. I am very pleased to hear he is doing so well and it's now 13 weeks with no IBD episodes! Excellent news!

With reference to him still overgrooming on his flanks, I am wondering what the reason might be for this - i.e. it could be due to stress, but also some overgrooming can be due to underlying discomfort. e.g. to give one example (not applicable to LH) a cat with persistent cystitis may overgroom the lower abdominal area. I wonder if with LH it could be related to discomfort in his lower bowel....

How are his stools now? Are they firm and formed, no blood, no mucous? How often is he pooing?


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## huckybuck

chillminx said:


> @huckybuck -
> 
> Hi hun, great to hear from you, and to have an update on Little H's progress. I am very pleased to hear he is doing so well and it's now 13 weeks with no IBD episodes! Excellent news!
> 
> With reference to him still overgrooming on his flanks, I am wondering what the reason might be for this - i.e. it could be due to stress, but also some overgrooming can be due to underlying discomfort. e.g. to give one example (not applicable to LH) a cat with persistent cystitis may overgroom the lower abdominal area. I wonder if with LH it could be related to discomfort in his lower bowel....
> 
> How are his stools now? Are they firm and formed, no blood, no mucous? How often is he pooing?


I did wonder about stress CM so have been giving him a cystophan a day. I've tried a course of piriton as we'll in case it was allergy related but that's had no effect.

He's always had fairly hard stools because of the hair - never dire rear or anything else untoward - these are a little softer than they used to be (thanks to the hairball stuff) but every now and then hard again when he's been over grooming a lot. He always goes once every 24 hours and that's still the same.

I do think he overgrooms in his tummy area (albeit on the sides rather than belly) it's quite high up. I suspect it could be if he has tummy ache.

Not really sure where we go from here so if you have any ideas...


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## chillminx

Bless him, it is not nice to think of him having tummy ache. Is he still on the Famotidine? Or did the vet change him to Omeprazole ( a PPI) ? 

How many meals a day does he have ? Does he have food left overnight?


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## Forester

I rarely look in here these days , I find it far too painful, but I did want to make people aware of 2 products I've recently introduced to Dylan's regime, with fairly amazing results.Dylan has just achieved his lowest monthly vomiting total for almost 5 years.

Everything I've read about IBD over the last 5 or 6 years has pointed to IBD being all about the microbiome. I've been feeding probiotics for the last 2 years but have now added specific prebiotics. First I added this https://www.advanced-supplements.co.uk/product/floraphage/. It's a type of virus which infects and kills E Coli which are then consumed by more beneficial bacteria.

I've also introduced this https://www.bioiberica.com/en/products/animal-health/medicina-interna/entero-chronic. If I'm honest I think that this has probably done more to help than the Floraphage but having introduced them in such a short space of time I have no way of telling.

Although I'd previously felt that Dylan rarely showed signs of being in pain I've recently noticed a change in him. He's playing as he hasn't done since he was a kitten.

I wondered whether these products might help Little H , @huckybuck .


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## huckybuck

chillminx said:


> Bless him, it is not nice to think of him having tummy ache. Is he still on the Famotidine? Or did the vet change him to Omeprazole ( a PPI) ?
> 
> How many meals a day does he have ? Does he have food left overnight?


He was only ever given ranitidine CM and she didn't really want him on it constantly if possible. I have noticed there could be a pattern when he comes off it though. I am happy to try to give it him for a longer time and then just have a break so say 3 weeks on 1 off and see if that makes a difference.

The only issue is that the vet will give a 10 day course (1 x 25mg tablet twice a day) and it's quite expensive. I have looked at buying Zantac and splitting but they are 75mg tablets. It's really hard to split into 3 arghhh.

He is free fed. His dry is down all the time and he has Canaan wet when he asks which is usually am and pm.

Do you think he would be better switching meds to one he could have daily?


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## huckybuck

Forester said:


> I rarely look in here these days , I find it far too painful, but I did want to make people aware of 2 products I've recently introduced to Dylan's regime, with fairly amazing results.Dylan has just achieved his lowest monthly vomiting total for almost 5 years.
> 
> Everything I've read about IBD over the last 5 or 6 years has pointed to IBD being all about the microbiome. I've been feeding probiotics for the last 2 years but have now added specific prebiotics. First I added this https://www.advanced-supplements.co.uk/product/floraphage/. It's a type of virus which infects and kills E Coli which are then consumed by more beneficial bacteria.
> 
> I've also introduced this https://www.bioiberica.com/en/products/animal-health/medicina-interna/entero-chronic. If I'm honest I think that this has probably done more to help than the Floraphage but having introduced them in such a short space of time I have no way of telling.
> 
> Although I'd previously felt that Dylan rarely showed signs of being in pain I've recently noticed a change in him. He's playing as he hasn't done since he was a kitten.
> 
> I wondered whether these products might help Little H , @huckybuck .


I have been giving him a synbiotic Forrester

https://www.protexin.com/products/synbiotic-d-c/33

And I do think it's helping

But will def look at yours too. Glad to hear Dylan is doing so well xx


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## chillminx

huckybuck said:


> He was only ever given ranitidine CM and she didn't really want him on it constantly if possible. I have noticed there could be a pattern when he comes off it though. I am happy to try to give it him for a longer time and then just have a break so say 3 weeks on 1 off and see if that makes a difference.
> 
> The only issue is that the vet will give a 10 day course (1 x 25mg tablet twice a day) and it's quite expensive. I have looked at buying Zantac and splitting but they are 75mg tablets. It's really hard to split into 3 arghhh.
> He is free fed. His dry is down all the time and he has Canaan wet when he asks which is usually am and pm.
> Do you think he would be better switching meds to one he could have daily?


Hi HB. Yes, my vet is the same with the Famotidine, she will only prescribe a short course for either of my boys with IBD. I think your vet and mine are right to be cautious.

I found this article from Cat Centric helpful as it explains that while a short course of an H2 blocker (e.g. Ranitidine, Famotidine [aka Pepcid]) can be helpful, giving it long term is not a good idea. (The manufacturers do state this in their accompanying leaflet in the packets in fact..)

http://catcentric.org/care-and-health/the-problems-with-pepcid-and-other-antacids/

I've also found the accompanying article "How to use diet to manage nausea in your cat" very interesting. I'm going to print it out to refer to for my own cats' diets. My two boys with IBD are on a grain-free, low carb wet only diet but their foods contain ingredients such as potato starch and thickeners such as carrageen, all of which can be irritants to the feline bowel.

I tried feeding my boys a raw diet and they relished it but it actually made their vomiting episodes more frequent. So I switched them to home cooked meat with supplements and they ate this for a while and then went off it (perhaps because of the taste of the supplements). So I put them back on the grain free wet food which they like, and one of them has been doing very well on it for several years. The other one is not doing well as he is constantly hungry and wants to keep eating. If I ration him (because of his weight) he sits hunched up as though in pain. It is worrying me, so I need to do something to address this now.

This is the article on using diet as a management tool. It is quite long, but worth reading I think. See what you think, I'd be very interested to chat with you about it. 

http://catcentric.org/care-and-heal...pcid-using-diet-to-manage-nausea-in-your-cat/

I have considered trying my boy who currently has the symptoms on a natural prey diet (e.g. mice bought frozen) but they need to be fed raw (which my OH is objecting to strongly). I do have concerns about the conditions in which some sources of "feeder" mice are raised - there have been undercover reports of cruelty and serious neglect.


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## huckybuck

Thank you for this CM

Ploughing my way through and digesting (haha) and now considering a possible change back to all wet canagan (as I'm not 100% sure this was an issue, it was the encore/hi life and hair) along with set meal times - eek - now that's scary as have always free fed, since Cinders (she was overweight on 3 meals a day as she hoovered).

i really feel in LHs case nausea may be linked with hair and motility. Perhaps I should stop the easy pill paraffin and reintroduce egg yolk lecithin again. The hair ball treats are probably indifferent.

This is what food we changed to and so far so good (although this could easily be the effect of the hair cut and cutting out fish that's made the difference)

https://uk.virbac.com/products/petfood/digestive-support-cat

Interested to see what you make of the ingredients CM

ETA Both Ralph and the new vet Alice have advised completely against a raw diet. I can't get my head round it either having had a cat who got campylobacter. So that's out.

14 weeks and counting


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## marie louise

What food is good for a cat with colitis? Preferrably not too expensive and is prednisolone good for them when they have it?


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## chillminx

marie louise said:


> What food is good for a cat with colitis? Preferably not too expensive and is prednisolone good for them when they have it?


Prednisolone should not be prescribed frequently for colitis because of the risk of the drug triggering Diabetes Type 2, which may be irreversible even when the prednisolone is stopped.

A suitable diet for colitis is highly individual for each cat. There is a strong possibility your cat is reacting to certain foods, such as grains or specific meat proteins. I would not feed a cat with colitis any dry food (because it is all high in carbs and often grains too). Some wet foods contain a high percentage of vegetable protein which is indigestible to a cat as they lack the right enzyme to process it.

What foods do you currently feed your cat?

The best advice I can give is to consider putting your cat on an elimination diet to identify which proteins might be causing the colitis. This has resolved health problems for two of my cats (brothers who both have IBD) and for another of my cats who has (controlled) feline dermatitis due to food allergies.

There is a pinned thread you may like to read on how to conduct an elimination diet and where to buy the special foods required.

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/

I am happy to help with any questions you may have about the diet.


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## marie louise

Thanks. He gets purina one biscuits and felix cat meat. Will try chicken for a while and see how he gets on.


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## chillminx

marie louise said:


> Thanks. He gets purina one biscuits and felix cat meat. Will try chicken for a while and see how he gets on.


Dry food is not always a good thing to feed a cat with colitis. Purina One dry (even the "Sensitive" recipe) contains grains and soya, which can cause food intolerance in cats with a sensitive gut. I would take her off it.

Felix As Good As it Looks contains a high percentage of vegetable protein and is low in meat protein. I wouldn't feed it to a cat with colitis, as veg protein is not well digested by cats.

I'd aim to transfer her to a wet food diet that is high in meat protein, low in carbs, and easy to digest . One of the best is Animonda Vom Feinsten for neutered cats sold by Zooplus. It is the mainstay of the diet I feed my two cats who have IBD. They love it and it suits their tummies.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/animonda/trays/14008

Start with the plain turkey flavour and see how she gets on.

I would try and avoid feeding any dry if you can. If you want treats for her, buy the freeze dried pure protein treats made by Thrive or Cosma and give her a couple of these a day.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_treats_catnip/thrive_cat_snacks

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_treats_catnip/cosma_cat_snacks

EDIT: transfer him off the chicken (to Felix for the time being) as soon as he passes a firm stool. Keeping him on chicken for a longer period could cause constipation due to lack of fibre in the diet.


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## Amanda Dale

nicolaa123 said:


> My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.
> 
> I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.
> 
> As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.
> 
> I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??
> 
> Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.
> 
> Thanks..


Hi I have a cat who is 18 yrs old. The vet said she either had ibd or intestinal lymphoma. They done a scan and xray last week. They put her on steroids a month before she got the scan xray done. Predisolone. Which seemed to help but she was still quite bloated. After the scan xray they said they couldn't see mass tumour but they suspect that its intestinal lymphoma. But they said the steroid that she is on would help both ibd lymphoma. So I don't understand how they are sure it is lymphoma. So heartbroken. Just hope they are wrong. I know ibd is not nice for your fur baby but at least there may be more of a chance. Just don't want to say goodbye to my little baby girl. Unless I have too x


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## bcats

nicolaa123 said:


> My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.
> 
> I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.
> 
> As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.
> 
> I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??
> 
> Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.
> 
> Thanks..


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## chillminx

Hi @bcats - I hope you are well. 

Nicolaa123 started this useful and informative thread around 7 yrs ago with regard to her beloved cat Riley. Very sadly, he went to Rainbow Bridge about a year ago. xx


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## bcats

chillminx said:


> Hi @bcats - I hope you are well.
> 
> Nicolaa123 started this useful and informative thread around 7 yrs ago with regard to her beloved cat Riley. Very sadly he went to Rainbow Bridge about a year ago. xx


Oh dear. I didn't see the date on it. I will try to delete my post so as not to upset her


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## Zombiepinup

izzyc said:


> One of my cats has colitis. At the moment we're able (touch wood) to manage it through diet alone.
> 
> Colitis is irritation of the large intestine - it's a symptom not a cause and can only be 'cured' if you find out what is causing the irritation in the first place.
> 
> Unfortunately for my cat we don't know exactly what the cause is. We know he's got several interrelated food allergies and a flea allergy, so we're managing those OK. He's fine most of the time now, but still has mild flare ups now and again which suggests there's something else going on too that we're not controlling.
> 
> He's on RC sensitivity control most of the time, and boiled chicken if he has a flare up.
> 
> It's especially important that cats with colitis are wormed and de-flea'd regularly, it's important to reduce the worm burden as much as possible.


My boy is the same food and flea allergy. Causing skin flare ups and chronic diarreah, the only thing so far that has had any positive results is the metronidazole, he's currently on Purina pro plan HA which looks and smells disgusting but he eats it at the moment so. Eventually I would like to do some more elimination food trials but the chronic diarreah is awful I'd just like to find something nicer to keep him stable and stick to it. I had heard about the fibre thing but we found that the probiotics didn't help because again they have meat additives and reading some of the fibre products so do they so idk


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## chillminx

@Zombiepinup - have you tried him on a bland home cooked diet of either chicken drumsticks or poached white fish for a few days? It rests the bowel, helps reduce the inflammation that is probably causing the chronic diarrhoea.

Is this the food your cat is currently eating ?

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/purina_veterinary_diets/dry/589511

"Ingredients
Rice starch, hydrolysed soya protein, soya oil, minerals, cellulose, hydrolysate, animal fat, fish oil."

I would not feed a cat with chronic diarrhoea a dry food and would not feed this dry food as it contains rice starch, soya protein and soya oil as well as fish oil. Each one of those ingredients could be having an effect in the gut and causing inflammation. Also not every cat with diarrhoea responds well to a hydrolised protein diet. Neither of my cats with IBD could tolerate a hydrolised protein diet.

In view of the fact your cat has skin problems as well as digestive problems I really would advise you to try him on an elimination diet as soon as possible. . Or if that is too big a step, try him on an exclusion diet. I am happy to help you with advice and support with the diet process.


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## Catlover21

Hello everyone, I’m new to Petforums but I’m in need of some help please. My beloved 13 year old cat has had bowel issues all her life, she has been informally diagnosed with IBD and is currently having a really bad spell. She’s lost a lot of weight and is down to 2.8kg and looking very frail so we really need to turn things around and quickly. She is on hills prescription dry cat food which is hypoallergenic and she is also being fed fillet steak from our local butchers (yes its expensive but we love her so much). She is having constant diarrhoea and has started being sick in the mornings. She’s had a worming tablet and is on steroids but nothing seems to be working. Last time this happened she had vitamin B injections but our vets have said that the ‘cat vitamin B injections’ aren’t being made anymore so she has been having human vitamin B injections and aren’t working. 
Please could you give me some advice, willing to try anything.


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## chillminx

Hello @Catlover21 and welcome 

The first thing is to get her onto a bland diet for a few days which will rest her bowel and stop the diarrhoea. This can be either home cooked chicken legs/drumsticks/thighs or poached white fish. Allow her nothing else except fresh water.

Serve the food finely chopped without bone and with plenty of the cooking water (stock) for fluids. Feed 4 small meals a day rather than 2 large meals.

She may pass no stools for several days. When she passes a formed stool, start to transfer her off the bland diet and back onto cat food. I would take her off the dry food for now as she could have an intolerance to one of the ingredients. I have never found that 'hypoallergenic" cat food helped with my cats who had/have IBD.

I also wouldn't feed raw steak to her at present, it is very rich. I would go for perhaps some turkey or lamb wet foods. Grain free. More gentle on the bowel, better tolerated.

When you make the transfer back to cat food do it slowly over a period of 3 days. If the stools become loose go back a step and take longer over the transfer.


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## Catlover21

chillminx said:


> Hello @Catlover21 and welcome
> 
> The first thing is to get her onto a bland diet for a few days which will rest her bowel and stop the diarrhoea. This can be either home cooked chicken legs/drumsticks/thighs or poahced white fish. Allow her nothing else except fresh water.
> 
> Serve the food finely chopped without bone and with plenty of the cooking water (stock) for fluids. Feed 4 small meals a day rather than 2 large meals.
> 
> She may pass no stools for several days. When she passes a formed stool, start to transfer her off the bland diet and back onto cat food. I would take her off the dry food for now as she could have an intolerance to one of the ingredients. I have never found that 'hypoallergenic" cat food helped with my cats who had/have IBD.
> 
> I also wouldn't feed raw steak to her at present, it is very rich. I would go for perhaps some turkey or lamb wet foods. Grain free. More gentle on the bowel, better tolerated.
> 
> When you make the transfer back to cat food do it slowly over a period of 3 days. If the stools become loose go back a step and take longer over the transfer.


thank you so much for the quick response and advise. I will certainly try what you've said, in the past it seems that chicken has given her diarrhoea which I did find strange as I know it's bland but white fish has been fine so I'll give her that as you've suggested and stop the dry cat food. I'll be back in a few days hopefully with good news


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## chillminx

Catlover21 said:


> thank you so much for the quick response and advise. I will certainly try what you've said, in the past it seems that chicken has given her diarrhoea which I did find strange as I know it's bland but white fish has been fine so I'll give her that as you've suggested and stop the dry cat food. I'll be back in a few days hopefully with good news


It is possible chicken could give her diarrhoea of she is allergic to it. Chicken is a common food allergen in sensitive cats as it is an ingredient of many cat foods nowadays.

After she has been on the white fish diet, it would be an idea to transfer her on to a wet food that contains no chicken (check the list of ingredients carefully)


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## OrientalSlave

Apparently there is an oral version of B12 for cats, so they are no longer making the injectable version. Has she been tested for thyroid problems?


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## TriTri

OrientalSlave said:


> Apparently there is an oral version of B12 for cats, so they are no longer making the injectable version. Has she been tested for thyroid problems?


Yes my cat has to now have the B12 oral version; it is called Cobalaplex. It's a lot more hassle than the monthly B12 injections, but only because my cat doesn't like the powder. Other cats may be fine with it, and it is important to have the Cobalaplex. Does anyone know why the injection version has been stopped and where they were manufactured?


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## TriTri

Catlover21 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to Petforums but I'm in need of some help please. My beloved 13 year old cat has had bowel issues all her life, she has been informally diagnosed with IBD and is currently having a really bad spell. She's lost a lot of weight and is down to 2.8kg and looking very frail so we really need to turn things around and quickly. She is on hills prescription dry cat food which is hypoallergenic and she is also being fed fillet steak from our local butchers (yes its expensive but we love her so much). She is having constant diarrhoea and has started being sick in the mornings. She's had a worming tablet and is on steroids but nothing seems to be working. Last time this happened she had vitamin B injections but our vets have said that the 'cat vitamin B injections' aren't being made anymore so she has been having human vitamin B injections and aren't working.
> Please could you give me some advice, willing to try anything.


Hi @Catlover21 sorry to hear how ill your dear cat is, sounds similar to my dear Tessy-Two-Shoes. Your vet could order you in the Cobalaplex B12 capsules to sprinkle on food. Your cat may well have food intolerances. Has your cat been checked for pancreatitis? Or Hyperthyroidism? Or for bacterial infections such as Clostridium Perfrindgens? You really need to keep a food diary to watch out for reactions to foods, such as vomiting and diarrhoea. Your cat is likely to need at least one meal in the night also. My cat does well on roast turkey, turkey mince gently fried in goose fat and also baked mackerel. Some foods from Germany are good too. She use to do well on cooked chicken and cooked white fish. Cats are different and can suddenly start reacting to foods they have been eating fine for years. If your cat has pancreatitis, it will need pancreatic enzymes, but all this needs to be discussed and approved by your vet. Good luck and please let us know how your cat gets on. Presumably it's drinking a lot too? Leave out lots of water of course.


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## casey25

Hello, I'm new to pet forums but could definitely use some advice.
I have a 3.5 year old Siberian cat. He had a little diarrhea as a kitten but it went away and he hasn't had any other problems in his life. Suddenly about two months ago he had acute onset diarrhea, and was pooping mucousy poo every 5-7 hours. After the second day he vomited so we took him to vet. He received anti-nausea medication, probiotics, and Hill's i/d digestive food. Diarrhea and vomiting stopped. He had stool samples which came back all negative.

After this visit we kept him on the digestive food and the probiotic. However, he would have intermittent diarrhea - he would be fine for a week (would almost swing to constipated) and then have 24-36 hours of a diarrhea episode with mucousy poop. The vomiting never returned - all the while he was eating and acting normally.
Finally after a month the vet recommended that we put him on Metronidazole and change him to a hypoallergenic food. I am not sure whether it was the food or the antibiotics, but his diarrhea cleared up. Since then he's had an occasional half-diarrhea poop every 10 days or so but he's pooping regularly (every 24-36 hours). I suspect the food had a big impact because I noticed the Hill's i/d wet and dry food had grains and gluten which he might have been sensitive to. 
We went back for a checkup and he hasn't lost any weight. The vet also did a blood test which came back normal, except that his folate was high and his B12 was really high, to the point where she asked if we had been giving him supplements (we hadn't). He also has been having a hairball issue, where he vomits a hairball every 1-2 weeks or so. Some of them have been huge.

Anyway I opened a new bag of the Purina HA food two days ago and he ate it for a day, but all of the sudden today and yesterday he's had no interest in it. He keeps walking over to his bowl and sniffing it, clearly hungry, but doesn't eat the food. Meanwhile he will gobble up treats and I gave him a few kibbles of the dry i/d food which he also happily ate but I don't want to give him too much because I think that food upset his tummy in the past. He also had another half diarrhea this morning. 
He's always been a picky eater and I'm worried he's gone off the food now. I want to make a change but I am afraid his diarrhea will return. Has anyone had experience with this? Is there a way I can encourage him to keep eating the HA food?


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## chillminx

Hello @casey25 and welcome 

Can I ask - has the vet diagnosed your cat with IBD? The symptoms sound very similar. I have had 3 cats with IBD, one cat is one of my current cats. The vet diagnosed him with IBD based on a clinical assessment of symptoms, 8 years ago. His symptoms are well controlled by diet, and a small dose of Famotidine (antacid) daily. (5 mg).

My experience is that any kind of dry food made the symptoms (vomiting and/or diarrhoea) much worse for all my cats. Even a small amount as treats caused problems, so now I have no dry food in the house at all, so there is no smell of it to attract any of my cats.

For treats I buy the Thrive or Cosma freeze dried pure protein treats available from most pet stores or online from Zooplus UK.

Diet-wise, I put all my IBD cats on elimination diets and found there were certain foods that made their symptoms worse.

In the case of my current cat with IBD, he cannot tolerate beef, oily fish, lamb, pork or venison. His diet consists of single protein wet foods containing chicken or turkey. And he has poached white fish a couple of times a week, home cooked casseroled kangaroo once a week and occasionally home-cooked wild rabbit.

He loves raw meat but more than a teaspoonful causes him to vomit.

I tried him on the various specialist veterinary foods years ago, and none of them suited him, and did not control his symptoms.

There is a pinned thread on how to operate the elimination diet for diagnosing food sensitivities. You may find it of interest to read:

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/

I suggest the best thing right now for your cat is to put him on a bland diet to rest his bowel and stop the loose stools he has at present. This can either be home-cooked chicken legs or home-cooked poached white fish. I find the poached white fish works a treat for my boy with IBD when his stools are a bit loose. It is very soothing to his gut and he always has a lovely sleep after a bowl of white fish. 

In my cat's case I just give him one meal of fish, but you may need to give your cat the white fish for a day to have best effect. Once his stools are formed you can give him cat food again, but I really would avoid all dry food. The fact he is refusing the Purina HA shows that he associates it with feeling unwell in his gut. It is even possible you have a bag of Purine HA that has gone off or is contaminated. (It can happen).

I hope he soon feels better. Please let us know how he gets on. Thanks


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## casey25

Thanks. The vet did mention IBD after a few weeks of unresolved diarrhea. However the last six weeks or so since moving to the Purina HA food he's only had a partial/somewhat loose diarrhoea every week and a half or so, it's much improved from the first month when he would have episodic diarrhoea lasting 24-36 hours. He does not have an issue with vomiting in general, but he does have an issue with hairballs. It sounds like it might be the more mild beginning of IBD compared to some of the other things I've read. Thankfully no excessive vomiting, weight loss, or scary diarrhoea.

I will try him on an elimination diet - I ordered some single protein chicken Kattovit wet food so will try him on that soon. For sure he is gluten sensitive, he has had poor reactions to any food with gluten. Just want my baby to feel comfortable and happy again


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## SydeniSass

Hi all
I'm in a real muddle with my 6yr old boy and I'm really at my wits end - I have a few questions about "*Silent IBD*", medications and Diets. Hopefully I've chosen the right thread, this is mainly about IBD, but crosses over with elimination diets.
Sydney has been diagnosed with Cholangiohepatitis, secondary to a new diagnosis of IBD. Sydney was a rescue at 7 weeks old (deceased mother), he had lots of weaning issues and was very late developing social skills. He has a lifelong neophobic issues with food, as well as anxiety and aggression, but with me is often very loving. He has history of "general iffy health" - diarrhoea up until he was 3 yrs old (clostridium perfringens), a midly greasy coat, a runny eye and can be lax in grooming. Significantly very summer through until about November he has significant issues with hairball vomits (weekly), but he is free of diarrhoea for the last 3 years. However over the last year he's started spraying indoors and has become increasingly antisocial.

9 weeks ago he became very unwell - stopped eating, listless - but no vomits (this year) and no obvious diarrhoea either. He's had appetite stimulants, Destolit, and 3 fortnightly steroid injections - since having these he has been a different cat - almost relaxed, no spraying and no aggression. He improved quite a bit, but is still only eating one pouch of wet food a day, sometimes less.
He's has ultrasounds (normal and a "small liver") but blood show liver functions are very out of range, cause thought to be lymphocytic not infectious. He had surgery 2 weeks ago - internally he look relatively normal, but they said the steroids may have masked any inflammation so there was no abnormality to biopsy of his bowel, however his gastric lymph nodes were enlarged. They took several lymph nodes biopsies and bile fluids etc, lymphoma is ruled out. The vets are a big group practice, they have discussed Sydney and his biopsy results at a multidisciplinary team meeting, and they have unanimously agreed he does have IBD.
I tried to switch his diet from the "cat version of McDonald's in Gravy", to a novel grain-free diet but with no luck. The vet advised to put him back on McDonald's as he was losing too much with (1.2kg), but now he's stronger I have to try again.
I've been advised he needs to start either a hydrolysed diet (Hill's ZD, or RC Hypoallergenic etc), or have a single novel protein diet for 6 to 8 wks. The vet has strongly advised against commercial single protein canned food due to the potential for factory contamination. As Sydney will not display symptoms if a contaminant disagrees with him, the vet think Hill's or RC are his best best option, and if he won't tolerate that then a home cooked "meat only" elimination diet.

I am willing to try this, but Sydney has a long history of food issues, so I know this is going to be very difficult.

So I feel like I am blindfolded down a dark alley, so I don't really know what all my questions are. But has anyone else had to deal with "silent IBD"? How will I know if an elimination question diet is working? And when reintroducing proteins how would this work if they do not trigger classic IBD symptoms??

Secondly, re the elimination diet, I'm trying the home cooked diet. He won't go for raw, and I think dry kibble if likely to fail. So is there any way I can make the dry meat more palatable without breaking the elimination rules?

Thirdly, because of his liver disease, he has just been started on Hepatosyl, but there is too much powder - I cannot work out how to get it down him? I can't put it in his food as its plain venison meat. I've tried liquidising a small amount of meat but he hates it and I don't want to turn him off the only meat he will eat, but Lick-e-Lix is banned as well.

What do you all think? Any suggestions? Medication suggestions? Anything really....

Many thanks in advance.


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## chillminx

Hi @SydeniSass and welcome 

I am sorry to hear about your poor boy's problems.

Do you have the capsules of Hepatosyl? I haven't seen the actual size of them but I assume they're too big for you to pill your boy straight down his throat? So you could open the capsule and split the powder between 2 smaller capsules and pill him directly with those? .

Empty gel capsules can be bought from ebay in tubs of 100 or more. Size 1 is the largest size and too big for a cat. I have used size 3 and size 4. Size 4 is very small and pretty easy to get down the cat's throat but is hard to fill; Size 3 is easier to fill but not so easy to get down the cat's throat.

I haven't heard of "Silent" IBD. I have had 3 cats with IBD, one of them is still with me. He is now aged 10, was diagnosed with IBD about 8 years ago and was diagnosed with Diabetes Mellitus a year ago. All 3 cats had symptoms with their IBD - either vomiting; or vomiting + diarrhoea; or diarrhoea alone. Food intolerances were a major problem for all 3.

I found the hydrolised veterinary diet foods did not help my current IBD cat, and he continued to vomit regularly.

I put him on an elimination diet and ascertained that he was reacting badly to beef, lamb, pork, venison and oily fish. But he is OK with chicken, turkey, white fish and small amounts of home cooked rabbit and kangaroo. I give him no dry food at all. The only treats he has are the freeze dried pure protein treats.

Another thing I found is that he does better on a low fat diet. This apparently is quite often the case with IBD cats (according to my vet).

He has 5 mg Famotidine (antacid) a day and it has made a big difference to him. He was constantly hungry before that and I was struggling to get his Diabetes under control. Now he looks well, has bright eyes and a lovely shiny coat, and more energy.

I put the antacid in Easypill cat putty but you won't be able to use that while your boy is on the elimination diet.

After discussion with my vet it was decided I would feed my boy every 3 hours day and night. So he has 6 meals a day of 32 grams each and 2 meals at night of 30 grams each, making a total of 252 grams of food a day, which is the right amount of food for his size/build. All his meals are weighed (on digital scales) and logged.

Feeding him as frequently has made a big difference to improving management of his IBD. I wish I had thought of doing it years ago.

For the elimination diet for your boy I suggest using kangaroo meat as a novel protein. It seems to be the most well accepted by cats, amongst the "exotic" meats. It is less expensive than some of the other novel protein meats.

Kangaroo Is quite a tough meat and benefits from slow cooking. I just bought a slow cooker for the purpose. I have up til now been cooking it in the oven in a covered casserole dish with enough water added to cover the meat. Cook at gas mark 4 for 1 and a half hours, or gas mark 3 for 2 hours. Check every half hour and add more hot water from the kettle if need be, to stop the meat drying out. I serve chopped into quite small pieces and add a couple of dessertspoonfuls of the cooking stock to each meal.

I buy the raw kangaroo meat chunks from either Kiezebrink or Kezie.

https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/product/640-paleo-ridge-kangaroo-chunks-500gm

https://www.keziefoods.co.uk/Catalo...Meat/Kangaroo-Diced-Steak-250g-Pack-MKADIFP52

I really hope the diet will help him. Please ask if you have any questions I can help with.


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## SydeniSass

Hi @chillminx, thank you so much for your response and the effort you have made. I am really sorry I have not responded before now, I ddidnt intend to appear ungrateful. Unfortunately I have a family bereavement, not somebody I was personally close to, but I have had to help my elderly parents with organising the funeral.
Sydney is doing a bit better healthwise and I _think_ he is improving, although I won't know really until he has had his next bloods done. Fortunately he is eating an adequate amount of RC Hypoallergenic dry kibble, but I would rather not be giving him this at all. Ideally I'd like him to eat homemade cooked or raw meat. I've spent a small fortune over the last couple of months trying different meats and he just won't eat any of it. Nada, nothing, zero, nil, none. I've tried changing the textures - mincing, puree, flaked, chopped, with broth, without broth - nothing works regardless of which meat. The problem seems to be with it being actual "real meat", so whilst I could try goat, or kangeroo as you say, I really think I am wasting my time. All he wants is crap food in gravy, I'd try the Hills Zd wet, but it is so expensive to buy in such a large amount, and even if the gravy is good he won't eat it if the smell or texture is not right. I just can't afford to keep buying more wasted food.
In the meantime he is really miserable mood-wise, he is constantly searching the house for food - "smelling the air" and sniffing around the furniture. I feel so bad for him :Arghh.
The situation with the tablets has worsened, because I can't get the tablets down via any wet food, so I'm having to mix it into something wet (pureed meat, etc) and give it to him straight into his mouth. He hates it and we are now "at war" over this, and he is running away to hide from me whenever I enter the room. I've now stopped giving the hepatosyl altogether, I may ask the vet is there is a different formulation. But I will look at the empty capsules on ebay you suggest, possibly this will be a way forward - do you think I could coat them in butter to help him swallow then more easily?
Thank you again


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## SydeniSass

One other quick question. He has eaten tuna before, but not salmon or white fish. Is all fish excluded from elimination diet because of tuna?


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## chillminx

SydeniSass said:


> One other quick question. He has eaten tuna before, but not salmon or white fish. Is all fish excluded from elimination diet because of tuna?


All fish is excluded from the elimination diet because no type of fish is a 'novel' protein. The inclusion of fish (including salmon and white fish) in dry foods and wet foods for cats is fairly ubiquitous. So it's likely your cat would have eaten various types of fish in his life.

Yes you can coat the gel capsules in butter but you may find they stick to your hand. I found it easier to slip them down the cat's throat and immediately offer some treats or a meal after. Some people put water in an oral syringe or a pipette and squirt a bit into the side of the cat's mouth after pilling them to make sure they swallow.

There are liquid formulations of milk thistle for treating the liver. They may not have the extra content that the Hepatosyl has. But would be better than him having no treatment for his liver at all.

If he will eat cat food have you tried him with any of the manufactured recipes of Kangaroo e.g. Catz Finefood PurrrKangaroo (from Zooplus UK)? or Mjamjam Kangaroo from Zoo-bio UK? They are both a pate texture.


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## SydeniSass

I tried him with Feringa Pure Meat Menu and MAC'S Mono Sensitive but they were both rejected. I'll try the Catz Finefood though, frankly anything is worth a go. :Banghead
I'll ask the vets about the liquid milk thistle - thank you


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## Treaclesmum

So this morning Gracie vomited some undigested food from last night. She has just been diagnosed with IBD, and now she doesn't want to eat. She was eating so well these past few days but is now having a flare up of her symptoms.

I've boiled some chicken, she sat up, sniffed it and purred but was still not wanting to take a bite. So I syringed some of the broth into the side of her mouth, 2 syringes full.

I hope this will help her until her vet check up tomorrow. Is there anything more I can do to help her until then? I'm not sure how long a flare up like this usually lasts.


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## CactusSloth

I was wondering if anyone else’s IBD cat has tummy ache with only very occasional diarrhea or vomiting as symptoms - and if so, what you’ve found best encourages them to eat. Dumble hasn’t eaten anything today


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## chillminx

CactusSloth said:


> I was wondering if anyone else's IBD cat has tummy ache with only very occasional diarrhea or vomiting as symptoms - and if so, what you've found best encourages them to eat. Dumble hasn't eaten anything today


Can you try him with home-made chicken or turkey broth? Very nourishing and it will keep him hydrated.


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## Berry_Cat

Hi everyone. I have posted before about our little bear who was recently diagnosed with IBD. The vet recommended Purina hypoallergenic dry cat food and only this food. We weren't very keen on this since we don't like feeding her just dry food. However she did like it and her poo was better, no vomiting at all. 

However, after buying her a HUGE bag of the food she suddenly went off it (as cats do) so we were back to square one. After reading through the threads we came across the 'one protein' advice and checked our local pet food shop. They had James Wellbeloved. She had this before and thrived on it but went off it after a teeth opp. We decided to try again and thank goodness she loves it again and so does her belly!! Proper solid poo and no vomiting at all. She has put weight on, she's got bundles of energy and best of all she is no longer lying on the floor in pain. She is back to sleeping in all her favourite spots around the house. 

So happy. Fingers and paws crossed that she keeps eating JW! Thank you for all the very helpful threads and responses too x


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## CatMum_

Hi everyone! 

Decided to post here in case anyone has been through anything similar. 

Our Maine coon kitten Kobe has had diarrhea/soft stool for about 3 months now, so pretty much since we got him. Our other kitten Bamboo started having the same about 3 weeks ago, and since then they’ve both been going 2-3 times a day, each time either liquid, soft, or a mixture of both. Bamboo also vomits sometimes but I think that’s because of hair balls. 

I sent 3-day stool samples off to a lab and the results have come back negative. I’m at my wits’ end and so are they! They sometimes step in their diarrhoea and drag it around the house, and I have to wipe/wash their butts at least once a day. It’s getting too much now, and I can’t imagine how they feel either  

I do think it’s diet related as Bamboo has never ever had issues. Kobe started having issues a while after we got him, a while after I changed his food from what the breeder was giving him. I did a gradual transition over a few days. I was feeding them both wet food and Applaws, and if I remember correctly that’s when he started becoming extremely gassy and doing soft poos. 

Can anyone advise? Have you been through anything similar with your cats, and if so, what do you recommend food or supplement-wise? 

Thanks in advance!


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## chillminx

@Catmum -

Did you also have a separate qPCR test done at the lab for Tritrichominas Foetus (TF) ? It is not included in the standard test but can be the cause of chronic diarrhoea in some cases.

The fact that both kittens have diarrhoea does suggest it could be something contagious which Kobe had passed to Bamboo.

Is Bamboo longhaired? It is not normal for cats to keep vomiting hairballs. Shorthaired cats with a healthy gut very rarely, if ever, have them. A long haired cat may have occasional hairballs simply because there is so much hair being swallowed. Daily grooming of longhaired cats is a way of helping them cope with all the extra hair they would swallow without some help.

What foods are you feeding them at present ? (if you can you give the makes and which recipes I can look up the ingredients)

However, the thing to do now is to take them off cat food for a few days and put them on a bland home cooked diet of chicken (legs, thighs or drumsticks)

Serve the meat and skin chopped without bones and add a couple of dessertspoons of the cooking stock for fluids.

No other food, no dry food, no treats, no cat milk, no table scraps. Just plain filtered (or cooled boiled) water to drink. The simple diet will slow down peristalsis and rest the bowel.

It is likely they will pass no stools for a few days. When they pass formed stools gradually transfer them back to wet cat food, taking a few days to complete the transfer.

No dry food

If the stools turn soft again on the wet food, immediately put them back on the plain chicken diet. Then you may need review what food to transfer them to after their stools are formed again as they cannot stay on the home cooked chicken for more than a few days without adding vitamins and minerals.

Worth considering (for transferring them to after the home cooked chicken) would be the simple chicken recipes such as Thrive Complete, Seriously Good Chicken (both from Pets at Home) or Sainsbury's Delicious Chicken. They are good for sensitive tummies and are all complete foods, so you can feed them permanently if necessary. Though the aim in time would be to able to introduce a couple more wet foods, different makes and different recipes.

I would keep them off dry food though, and also kitten milk.

Please let us know how things progress.


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## CatMum_

@chillminx

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a lengthy, informative response!

I didn't have that test done as it's pretty expensive and having read the symptoms I don't think it applies to them, or at least not Bamboo. It does seem to be related to the food. I've been changing their food a lot the past month or so, trying to find something that works for Kobe, and I guess it's affected Bamboo as well. I can't be sure, but it makes sense, I think.

Bamboo is long haired, yes. He's been throwing up maybe once a week, so it isn't very often but it's definitely new for him. I thought it may be due to him shedding a lot more now that it's autumn (if that's actually a thing!) I've been brushing him a lot more and giving him malt paste, which I think helps but I can't know for sure whether this is food related, hair related, or something else.

At the moment I'm feeding them Animoda Integra veterinary diet, dry (rabbit and potato), and concept for life veterinary diet, wet (turkey and pumpkin). I know pumpkin helps firm up the stool and turkey should be pretty easily digested, especially if they have some sort of intolerance, right?

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...cept_for_life_vet_cat/gastrointestinal/742008
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/integra/596594

I've read dry food isn't great for cats, especially if they have soft stool, but at one point I thought all wet food was causing them issues and wanted to see if a sensitive dry food would help.

I started feeding them cooked chicken breast in broth today (are drumsticks better? They're picky when it comes to skin!) and will continue to do so until they pass hard stool. Once they do, how do I go about transitioning to wet food? Do I mix it with the chicken and slowly increase the amount of wet food over two or three days?

Again, thanks a lot!

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...cept_for_life_vet_cat/gastrointestinal/742008


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## chillminx

@Catmum - cats shed more hair in the Spring as that is the start of the annual moult. By around October they are usually growing their winter coats.

A longhaired cat vomiting a hairball once a week is rather a lot. One hairball every 3 months or so would be more usual (in a LH cat). Cat hair normally passes easily from the stomach through the pyloric sphincter into the digestive tract. If something is preventing this happening (e.g. inflammation of the stomach,) the hair will sit in the stomach, and will be joined by more fur as the cat grooms themselves. The hair in the stomach gets churned about and forms a matted lump which cannot possibly go down the digestive tract so it is thrown up as a hairball.

IMO dry food is not suitable for a cat who is prone to hairballs as Bamboo is. This is because a cat rarely drinks enough water to hydrate dry food and turn it into a "soupy" consistency which is able to leave the stomach through the pyloric sphincter. The dry food in the stomach gets mixed up with the swallowed hair in the stomach, which also needs plenty of fluids to enable it to leave the stomach. The resulting mix is going to reach the point where the body gives up trying to digest it and vomits it up.

Some malt pastes contain a petroleum by product called petrolatum, which is best used only occasionally because it can cause damage to the lining of the intestine. Check the ingredients of your paste to make sure it does not contain this.

The Concept for Life wet will be better for him than the dry food. If he has a food intolerance it depends which ingredients or meats he is intolerant of, as to whether a certain food suits him. He may be OK with turkey, he may not. Fingers crossed he is Ok with it. 

Chicken legs, thighs or drumsticks are best as they contain more taurine than breast, and also they have more flavour. You can always remove the skin once the meat is cooked.

Once they've passed a formed stool (no need to wait for a 'hard' stool as such), you can start giving them a spoonful of their wet cat food on a separate dish alongside their chicken. Do not mix the two foods together. Next day increase to 2 spoonfuls of their wet cat food. At the same time reduce the amount of cooked chicken. If you take about 3 days over the transition they should be Ok. if the stools go soft again then, back on the chicken diet.


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## CatMum_

@chillminx they haven't passed any stool today, which honestly is amazing for me because I haven't had to clean up any diarrhea 

I'm going to try transitioning to the turkey/pumpkin wet food and see how that affects them. The fact that they don't have any diarrhea now means that their issues are food-related, I'm assuming? If this doesn't work I'll try a different wet food. The ones you mentioned are a bit pricey 

I used to feed them wet food and applaws dry kitten food when we first got Kobe and that's when his problems began. Applaws contains citrus extract and I found it it's not good for cats and could cause gastrointestinal upset - could this be the cause? Since then I've tried a few different dry and wet foods and I fear the constant change may have messed with Bamboo's stomach, too, causing him to not just have diarrhoea but vomit as well.


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## chillminx

I really would skip the dry food for now and the future. All makes of dry have some ingredients that could potentially upset their bowels. It is not worth the risk,

Just to confirm, do not transfer each kitty back to wet food until they have passed a formed stool. This is important. 

The shredded chicken recipes that are complete are quite expensive I agree. I was meaning it to be a temporary diet until they are feeling better, maybe a few weeks. There are cheaper shredded chicken recipes but they are not complete foods, so that is not good for kittens. B

If you want a cheaper food I suggest Felix AGAIL - it usually agrees with most kittens' bowels even if it is not the best of foods. 

What make is the turkey and pumpkin wet food? Is it JWB? 

We can't be 100% sure their diarrhoea is purely diet related, though it is a definite possibility. The stools often improve on the home cooked chicken diet even when there is a bowel infection or parasite. The true test is what happens once they are transferred back to a cat food diet.

The bowel will still be sensitive for some while, easily upset again unless you are very careful, hence I advise not feeding them any dry food.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> I really would skip the dry food for now and the future. All makes of dry have some ingredients that could potentially upset their bowels. It is not worth the risk,
> 
> Just to confirm, do not transfer each kitty back to wet food until they have passed a formed stool. This is important.
> 
> The shredded chicken recipes that are complete are quite expensive I agree. I was meaning it to be a temporary diet until they are feeling better, maybe a few weeks. There are cheaper shredded chicken recipes but they are not complete foods, so that is not good for kittens. B
> 
> If you want a cheaper food I suggest Felix AGAIL - it usually agrees with most kittens' bowels even if it is not the best of foods.
> 
> What make is the turkey and pumpkin wet food? Is it JWB?
> 
> We can't be 100% sure their diarrhoea is purely diet related, though it is a definite possibility. The stools often improve on the home cooked chicken diet even when there is a bowel infection or parasite. The true test is what happens once they are transferred back to a cat food diet.
> 
> The bowel will still be sensitive for some while, easily upset again unless you are very careful, hence I advise not feeding them any dry food.


the turkey and pumpkin wet food is concept for life. I linked it earlier.

Thanks so much for the recommendations! I'll have a look and see what my options are.

I won't be transitioning to the turkey and pumpkin until they pass any stool. Really hoping it's food related and not something else!


----------



## CatMum_

@chillminx Also, not sure I want to feed them Felix as it seems to contain a lot of by-products and sugar, which I think they may be sensitive to. I've fed them Sheba and Gourmet before and it caused them to have really watery explosive diarrhoea. Poor guys!


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> @chillminx Also, not sure I want to feed them Felix as it seems to contain a lot of by-products and sugar, which I think they may be sensitive to. I've fed them Sheba and Gourmet before and it caused them to have really watery explosive diarrhoea. Poor guys!


Concept for Life is probably a slightly better quality food than Felix AGAIL. i'n sorry, I had momentarily forgotten you linked it earlier.  

Yes, I would use the Concept 4Life to transfer them to after the home-cooked chicken. I'm assuming they had no diarrhoea when on Concept and the diarrhoea was caused by dry food...so the Concept should be fine.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Concept for Life is probably a slightly better quality food than Felix AGAIL. i'n sorry, I had momentarily forgotten you linked it earlier.
> 
> Yes, I would use the Concept 4Life to transfer them to after the home-cooked chicken. I'm assuming they had no diarrhoea when on Concept and the diarrhoea was caused by dry food...so the Concept should be fine.


I'm not sure if it's the dry food, it could even be the wet food or turkey in general. The food isn't the usual concept for life pouches, it's actual meat with a few ingredients added, so I don't think they should have a reaction to it. But we will see!

One of them passed a hard stool today (yay!) so I think I should be able to start transitioning later today.


----------



## chillminx

@Catmum, yes you're right the Concept 4Life is a special dietary food. It's new for Zooplus to stock it and it may even be a fairly new food to the market. 

It should be an OK food to transfer them to after the chicken diet. I have just been having a look at the ingredients of it:

"Ingredients:
53% turkey (heart, liver, meat, neck), 38.2% stock, 7% pumpkin, 1% minerals, 0.5% salmon oil, 0.2% mannan oligosaccharides, 0.1% medicinal clay, calcium carbonate
Highly digestible ingredients: turkey, pumpkin, salmon oil"

Three things to note:

It contains 0.1% medicinal clay - this is to bind the stools. This is fine for an interim diet. I would not want young cats on it for long.

It contains mannan oligosaccharides, a prebiotic. I would be cautious because prebiotics can cause bowel disturbances such as flatulence, and loose stools in some cats with a sensitive bowel.

It contains salmon oil and this causes loose stools in some cats. My boys with IBD reacted with diarrhoea to salmon oil in their food.

Otherwise the ingredients look good and it is better than the normal Concept 4Life.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @Catmum, yes you're right the Concept 4Life is a special dietary food. It's new for Zooplus to stock it and it may even be a fairly new food to the market.
> 
> It should be an OK food to transfer them to after the chicken diet. I have just been having a look at the ingredients of it:
> 
> "Ingredients:
> 53% turkey (heart, liver, meat, neck), 38.2% stock, 7% pumpkin, 1% minerals, 0.5% salmon oil, 0.2% mannan oligosaccharides, 0.1% medicinal clay, calcium carbonate
> Highly digestible ingredients: turkey, pumpkin, salmon oil"
> 
> Three things to note:
> 
> It contains 0.1% medicinal clay - this is to bind the stools. This is fine for an interim diet. I would not want young cats on it for long.
> 
> It contains mannan oligosaccharides, a prebiotic. I would be cautious because prebiotics can cause bowel disturbances such as flatulence, and loose stools in some cats with a sensitive bowel.
> 
> It contains salmon oil and this causes loose stools in some cats. My boys with IBD reacted with diarrhoea to salmon oil in their food.
> 
> Otherwise the ingredients look good and it is better than the normal Concept 4Life.


Which brand would you recommend putting them on if concept for life turns out to be bad for them? Other than the shredded chicken recipes like Thrive, etc. as they're too pricey.

I was feeding them Animoda integra sensitive before I switched to concept for life, but I was feeding them the dry food at the same time, so it may have actually been good for them. They have a pure chicken wet food with the following ingredients:
_
Chicken (63%), calcium carbonate, rapeseed oil (0.4%), sodium chloride
_
There's also miamor, which seems to contain minimal ingredients, but does include rice:

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...7490&rri=0d7fabb5-add2-4887-99b6-8a6261abc153

What do you think?

Thanks so much!


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @Catmum, yes you're right the Concept 4Life is a special dietary food. It's new for Zooplus to stock it and it may even be a fairly new food to the market.
> 
> It should be an OK food to transfer them to after the chicken diet. I have just been having a look at the ingredients of it:
> 
> "Ingredients:
> 53% turkey (heart, liver, meat, neck), 38.2% stock, 7% pumpkin, 1% minerals, 0.5% salmon oil, 0.2% mannan oligosaccharides, 0.1% medicinal clay, calcium carbonate
> Highly digestible ingredients: turkey, pumpkin, salmon oil"
> 
> Three things to note:
> 
> It contains 0.1% medicinal clay - this is to bind the stools. This is fine for an interim diet. I would not want young cats on it for long.
> 
> It contains mannan oligosaccharides, a prebiotic. I would be cautious because prebiotics can cause bowel disturbances such as flatulence, and loose stools in some cats with a sensitive bowel.
> 
> It contains salmon oil and this causes loose stools in some cats. My boys with IBD reacted with diarrhoea to salmon oil in their food.
> 
> Otherwise the ingredients look good and it is better than the normal Concept 4Life.


Also, not sure if this is related, but I noticed that whenever I brush or comb them, lots of dandruff flakes come off. Is this a sign of a food allergy?


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Also, not sure if this is related, but I noticed that whenever I brush or comb them, lots of dandruff flakes come off. Is this a sign of a food allergy?


Dandruffy type flakes are a sign of dry skin, which could in turn be dietary related, possibly food sensitivities or allergies. One of my girls who has food allergies had very flaky skin until I put her on her special diet. Now she has lovely shiny fur and no flaky skin.


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Which brand would you recommend putting them on if concept for life turns out to be bad for them? Other than the shredded chicken recipes like Thrive, etc. as they're too pricey.
> 
> I was feeding them Animoda integra sensitive before I switched to concept for life, but I was feeding them the dry food at the same time, so it may have actually been good for them. They have a pure chicken wet food with the following ingredients:
> _
> Chicken (63%), calcium carbonate, rapeseed oil (0.4%), sodium chloride
> _
> There's also miamor, which seems to contain minimal ingredients, but does include rice:
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...7490&rri=0d7fabb5-add2-4887-99b6-8a6261abc153
> What do you think? Thanks so much!


I wouldn't feed any food with rice in because being a fibre it will make the bowel more active. But the Miamor Mild Meals might be OK as there is no rice in them. My cats with IBD used to like these:

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/miamor/miamor_trays/42061

Integra Protect sensitive contains rice btw.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> I wouldn't feed any food with rice in because being a fibre it will make the bowel more active. But the Miamor Mild Meals might be OK as there is no rice in them. My cats with IBD used to like these:
> 
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/miamor/miamor_trays/42061
> 
> Integra Protect sensitive contains rice btw.


I checked the ingredients and the pure chicken one doesn't, apparently. Is this a mistake?

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll have a look! Do you mind me asking what you feed your cats? Perhaps it might help mine. They didn't have dandruff before so I suspect it may be diet related. I just don't get how it's all happened so suddenly!


----------



## chillminx

@Catmum - yes you are right - the Integra Protect pure chicken doesn't contain rice. 

I'm happy to share details of the foods I feed my cats 

My diabetic cat with IBD eats Leonardos pouches of pure chicken, Tundra pure turkey + poached white fish, home cooked chicken leg or turkey thigh.
The one who has severe food allergies eats home cooked kangaroo, goat and lamb + a completer supplement. No cat food at all. 
The others eat a rotation of Catz FineFood Game, CFF Lamb & Rabbit, Mjamjam lamb, MJ kangaroo, MJ horse, MJ duck, MJ turkey, Catz FF Purrr Pork, Schesir Pork, Venandi Turkey, Venandi Duck, with occasional home cooked rabbit or fried turkey mince.

For treats they have Thrive and Cosma freeze dried pure protein treats in Chicken or White Fish flavours.

No kibble at all.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @Catmum - yes you are right - the Integra Protect pure chicken doesn't contain rice.
> 
> I'm happy to share details of the foods I feed my cats
> 
> My diabetic cat with IBD eats Leonardos pouches of pure chicken, Tundra pure turkey + poached white fish, home cooked chicken leg or turkey thigh.
> The one who has severe food allergies eats home cooked kangaroo, goat and lamb + a completer supplement. No cat food at all.
> The others eat a rotation of Catz FineFood Game, CFF Lamb & Rabbit, Mjamjam lamb, MJ kangaroo, MJ horse, MJ duck, MJ turkey, Catz FF Purrr Pork, Schesir Pork, Venandi Turkey, Venandi Duck, with occasional home cooked rabbit or fried turkey mince.
> 
> For treats they have Thrive and Cosma freeze dried pure protein treats in Chicken or White Fish flavours.
> 
> No kibble at all.


Thank you! So much food to look up now 

A little update: I started feeding them both wet food now alongside the chicken as they both passed hard stool today.

Bamboo used the litter about an hour ago and it was hard, except for a little bit of soft stool. Is this okay? Does it take a bit of time before the stools are 100% formed and there is no more softness? Or is this a sign that the wet food isn't good for them?


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Thank you! So much food to look up now
> 
> A little update: I started feeding them both wet food now alongside the chicken as they both passed hard stool today.
> Bamboo used the litter about an hour ago and it was hard, except for a little bit of soft stool. Is this okay? Does it take a bit of time before the stools are 100% formed and there is no more softness? Or is this a sign that the wet food isn't good for them?


The stools may go a bit softer when transferred back to wet cat food. They should still be formed into sausage shapes though. It would be unusual for them to remain as hard as they are on a plain meat diet. Cat food contains more fibre than a plain meat diet. But the stools should gradually become firmer as the bowel settles down. If they do not then either the food is not right for the cat, or there is some underlying cause (such as TF perhaps, as that was not yet tested for).

Which food did you give Bamboo - was it the Integra? There is no knowing with some of the foods how much offal there is in them. In cheaper foods the offal levels are higher as offal costs less than muscle meat. Too much offal, heart especially, can cause loose stools.

If the stools get softer I would put him back on the chicken diet and then transfer him to a cat food that is low in offal and has no rice in it - such as e.g.

!/ Miamor Mild Meals - note these contain chicken and fish - is he Ok with fish? (link given earlier)

2/ Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered Cats - pure turkey

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/animonda/trays/523945

3/ Any of the complete chicken recipes I gave earlier, i.e. Thrive Complete etc/

Or the alternative would to be keep him on the home cooked chicken diet for a while but add a completer to it, as I do for one of my cats. The completer is essential if the plain meat diet is being fed for more than a few days. The one I use for my cat is not sourced from animals or vegetables, so less chance of bad reactions.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/vitamins/155860


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> The stools may go a bit softer when transferred back to wet cat food. They should still be formed into sausage shapes though. It would be unusual for them to remain as hard as they are on a plain meat diet. Cat food contains more fibre than a plain meat diet. But the stools should gradually become firmer as the bowel settles down. If they do not then either the food is not right for the cat, or there is some underlying cause (such as TF perhaps, as that was not yet tested for).
> 
> Which food did you give Bamboo - was it the Integra? There is no knowing with some of the foods how much offal there is in them. In cheaper foods the offal levels are higher as offal costs less than muscle meat. Too much offal, heart especially, can cause loose stools.
> 
> If the stools get softer I would put him back on the chicken diet and then transfer him to a cat food that is low in offal and has no rice in it - such as e.g.
> 
> !/ Miamor Mild Meals - note these contain chicken and fish - is he Ok with fish? (link given earlier)
> 
> 2/ Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered Cats - pure turkey
> 
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/animonda/trays/523945
> 
> 3/ Any of the complete chicken recipes I gave earlier, i.e. Thrive Complete etc/
> 
> Or the alternative would to be keep him on the home cooked chicken diet for a while but add a completer to it, as I do for one of my cats. The completer is essential if the plain meat diet is being fed for more than a few days. The one I use for my cat is not sourced from animals or vegetables, so less chance of bad reactions.
> 
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/vitamins/155860


They're definitely formed, they just have small soft segments so it falls apart slightly when picked up. With regards to the fibre, I don't understand how pumpkin can act as a firming ingredient since fibre usually has the opposite effect. Couldn't the pumpkin be causing them to have softer stool?

The Integra is the dry food, which I'm no longer giving them. I've been transitioning them on to Concept for Life (turkey and pumpkin). There's no visible offal, I think there's a pretty high meat content, but I guess it could just be minced really well! But yes before switching to CFL, I was feeding them integra turkey and rice (which obviously wasn't great, in hindsight) and that had a lot of visible offal pieces.

Do you recommend transitioning and keeping them on the CFL for about a week to see if the stool fully firms up? And then switch to a different food if they're still a bit soft (but formed)?

I will definitely check out the foods you've linked if this turns out to not work for them. There's also integra pure chicken (no rice), but you mentioned it might have a high offal content so I guess I should stay away from it?

Last question (promise ), since Thrive is pure shredded chicken, can I not just cook chicken for them and add the complete supplement to it, as it would technically be the same as Thrive but possibly cost less money in the long run? I would ideally love a wet food that doesn't cost an extortionate amount and that agrees with their sensitive bellies, as it just makes life a lot easier.


----------



## chillminx

@Catmum, yes you can certainly give them home cooked chicken and add a completer to it (the one I mentioned earlier. Not all vitamin supplements are suitable for adding to cooked food, but that one is).

However, if you decide to do that I'd recommend that perhaps when they're a few months older and their digestive systems are more mature, you try introducing some safe wet cat foods to their diet. For one thing it's good for them to eat a variety of meats, not just chicken. For another thing there may come a time in the future when it will be more convenient for them to have a cat food diet, e.g. if you ever go on holiday and leave them in the care of a cat sitter, or have to put them in a cattery.

Pumpkin does not usually firm up stools.. It adds bulk to the diet and softens a hard stool, when there is constipation. I can't imagine a vegetable could stop diarrhoea.. I think the pumpkin is in the CFL to balance the effect of the medicinal clay the food contains. Medicinal clay can be very binding (constipating)


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @Catmum, yes you can certainly give them home cooked chicken and add a completer to it (the one I mentioned earlier. Not all vitamin supplements are suitable for adding to cooked food, but that one is).
> 
> However, if you decide to do that I'd recommend that perhaps when they're a few months older and their digestive systems are more mature, you try introducing some safe wet cat foods to their diet. For one thing it's good for them to eat a variety of meats, not just chicken. For another thing there may come a time in the future when it will be more convenient for them to have a cat food diet, e.g. if you ever go on holiday and leave them in the care of a cat sitter, or have to put them in a cattery.
> 
> Pumpkin does not usually firm up stools.. It adds bulk to the diet and softens a hard stool, when there is constipation. I can't imagine a vegetable could stop diarrhoea.. I think the pumpkin is in the CFL to balance the effect of the medicinal clay the food contains. Medicinal clay can be very binding (constipating)


Thanks so much, this is very informative.

Unfortunately Bamboo passed some pretty soft stool this morning. Some parts were semi-formed but the rest was quite wet. Do I put him back on the chicken? I've only been giving them wet food for about 2 days now. I have a feeling it might be the pumpkin or any of the other ingredients you mentioned like the prebiotic, so not sure what to do now. Kobe passed hard stool last night - just three small pellets, actually.


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Thanks so much, this is very informative.
> 
> Unfortunately Bamboo passed some pretty soft stool this morning. Some parts were semi-formed but the rest was quite wet. Do I put him back on the chicken? I've only been giving them wet food for about 2 days now. I have a feeling it might be the pumpkin or any of the other ingredients you mentioned like the prebiotic, so not sure what to do now. Kobe passed hard stool last night - just three small pellets, actually.


Yes, I would put Bamboo back on the chicken diet - and maybe get some Felini Complete so he can stay on the diet for a few weeks. Then when you come to transfer him to cat food use a different food - e.g. one of the makes I have suggested.

If Kobe's stools are hard like stones then we need to avoid him getting constipated. Is he still on the chicken diet ? if not, which food is he on?


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Yes, I would put Bamboo back on the chicken diet - and maybe get some Felini Complete so he can stay on the diet for a few weeks. Then when you come to transfer him to cat food use a different food - e.g. one of the makes I have suggested.
> 
> If Kobe's stools are hard like stones then we need to avoid him getting constipated. Is he still on the chicken diet ? if not, which food is he on?


Starting to lose hope, to be honest 

I'll put him back on the chicken and order the supplement. Do you know how much chicken breast a cat should be eating? I'm not sure if I'm giving them enough, or too much. Bamboo weighs around 3.5kg and Kobe, 5.5kg (last time I weighed them).

I transitioned them both on to concept for life (turkey and pumpkin). I'll wait and see what his stool is like today - hopefully no constipation!


----------



## CatMum_

CatMum_ said:


> Starting to lose hope, to be honest
> 
> I'll put him back on the chicken and order the supplement. Do you know how much chicken breast a cat should be eating? I'm not sure if I'm giving them enough, or too much. Bamboo weighs around 3.5kg and Kobe, 5.5kg (last time I weighed them).
> 
> I transitioned them both on to concept for life (turkey and pumpkin). I'll wait and see what his stool is like today - hopefully no constipation!





CatMum_ said:


> Starting to lose hope, to be honest
> 
> I'll put him back on the chicken and order the supplement. Do you know how much chicken breast a cat should be eating? I'm not sure if I'm giving them enough, or too much. Bamboo weighs around 3.5kg and Kobe, 5.5kg (last time I weighed them).
> 
> I transitioned them both on to concept for life (turkey and pumpkin). I'll wait and see what his stool is like today - hopefully no constipation!


Just to clarify, they're not fully transitioned, I'm still giving them a bit of chicken on the side.


----------



## CatMum_

@chillminx I think I'll go with animoda vom Feinsten pure turkey for them both.

Do you know anything about HiLife chicken dinner and whether it's suitable for cats with sensitive tummies? These are the ingredients:

Chicken (50%), Sunflower Oil, Minerals, Cassava Extract, Taurine

Seems pretty safe, I think.


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Just to clarify, they're not fully transitioned, I'm still giving them a bit of chicken on the side.


Please don't lose hope - we will get there! 

Chicken legs, thighs or drumsticks are better than chicken breast. There is more taurine in muscle meat and it is more tasty for the cat. The best way to cook it is in the oven as a pot roast as it conserves the nutrients better than boiling it.

(Method: put chicken in roasting pan with about 5 cms of water to make the juices/stock, cover tightly with baking foil, cook top shelf of oven for one hour. Drain off the juices into pyrex bowl or jug, cool and refrigerate for 12 hours and skim fat off the top [use in cooking]. Serve the chicken & skin chopped without the bones,+ add a couple of spoonfuls of the jelly/juices to every meal)

I would feed Bamboo as much chicken as he wants, but start with a couple of tablespoons a meal x 4 or 5 meals a day.

As Kobe's stools are now firm you can take him off the chicken. HiLife Chicken Dinner is a good food. The only niggle I have with it is it contains cassava extract which does not agree with every cat. But most are fine with it. So I would certainly give it a try for Kobe and see how things go. The Animonda VF for neuters would also be good to add, but only once he is stable on one food.

For Bamboo I would just feed him the home cooked chicken for now and add the supplement. Either the Felini Complete (link given earlier) or you could order the Purrform make, which is a bit cheaper, but still good.

https://www.purrform.co.uk/product/purrform-complete-supplement-50g/


----------



## chillminx

@Catmum - sorry can you remind me - were the stools samples you had tested at the lab all normal?


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @Catmum - sorry can you remind me - were the stools samples you had tested at the lab all normal?


From what I understood, yes. I took the samples over three days. I'll include the results below:

(Bamboo)

MICROBIOLOGY

Culture Aerobic cultures show a moderate mixed growth
consistent with normal faecal flora

Salmonella Negative

Campylobacter Negative
Direct No ova, cysts or parasites seen.
Concentrate No ova, cysts or parasites seen.
Cryptosporidium Negative

SENSITIVITIES Not indicated.
*NORMAL FAECAL RESULT*

(Kobe)

MICROBIOLOGY

Culture Aerobic cultures show a very scanty mixed growth
consistent with normal faecal flora

Salmonella Negative

Campylobacter Negative
Direct No ova, cysts or parasites seen.
Concentrate No ova, cysts or parasites seen.
Cryptosporidium Negative

SENSITIVITIES Not indicated.
*NORMAL FAECAL RESULT*


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Please don't lose hope - we will get there!
> 
> Chicken legs, thighs or drumsticks are better than chicken breast. There is more taurine in muscle meat and it is more tasty for the cat. The best way to cook it is in the oven as a pot roast as it conserves the nutrients better than boiling it.
> 
> (Method: put chicken in roasting pan with about 5 cms of water to make the juices/stock, cover tightly with baking foil, cook top shelf of oven for one hour. Drain off the juices into pyrex bowl or jug, cool and refrigerate for 12 hours and skim fat off the top [use in cooking]. Serve the chicken & skin chopped without the bones,+ add a couple of spoonfuls of the jelly/juices to every meal)
> 
> I would feed Bamboo as much chicken as he wants, but start with a couple of tablespoons a meal x 4 or 5 meals a day.
> 
> As Kobe's stools are now firm you can take him off the chicken. HiLife Chicken Dinner is a good food. The only niggle I have with it is it contains cassava extract which does not agree with every cat. But most are fine with it. So I would certainly give it a try for Kobe and see how things go. The Animonda VF for neuters would also be good to add, but only once he is stable on one food.
> 
> For Bamboo I would just feed him the home cooked chicken for now and add the supplement. Either the Felini Complete (link given earlier) or you could order the Purrform make, which is a bit cheaper, but still good.
> 
> https://www.purrform.co.uk/product/purrform-complete-supplement-50g/


Thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate your help  sorry for all the questions, I've never had to deal with something like this before and I naively thought cats are easy to feed! I owned a previously stray cat before and she could eat just about anything with no issues/transition periods.

Do I slowly transition Kobe from the concept for life to the new food? It will take a few days for it to arrive. I might go with animoda just to be safe.


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> Thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate your help  sorry for all the questions, I've never had to deal with something like this before and I naively thought cats are easy to feed! I owned a previously stray cat before and she could eat just about anything with no issues/transition periods.
> 
> Do I slowly transition Kobe from the concept for life to the new food? It will take a few days for it to arrive. I might go with animoda just to be safe.


Well, that's a relief to know that Bamboo's stool test results were normal! . So it is pretty likely we are dealing with a food sensitivity.

But there is just a possibility he may have Tritrichomonas foetus (TF) which would need a separate test called a qPCR test. However vets are not always keen to test for this as the only treatment - an antibiotic called Ronidazole - has some potentially unpleasant side effects, and some vets are not willing to prescribe it. Otherwise it is a case of leaving the TF to resolve on its own which it usually does but may take a long while to do so (e.g. a year or so).

I am not saying Bamboo has TF, just that it is a possibility, as it is not mentioned in the test results.

https://icatcare.org/advice/tritrichomonas-foetus-infection-in-cats/

Yes, probably best to transfer Kobe slowly to the new food.

Can you remind me - was it Bamboo who had the diarrhoea first and then Kobe got it? And how long had you had Bamboo when he became unwell with his bowel?


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Well, that's a relief to know that Bamboo's stool test results were normal! . So it is pretty likely we are dealing with a food sensitivity.
> 
> But there is just a possibility he may have Tritrichomonas foetus (TF) which would need a separate test called a qPCR test. However vets are not always keen to test for this as the only treatment - an antibiotic called Ronidazole - has some potentially unpleasant side effects, and some vets are not willing to prescribe it. Otherwise it is a case of leaving the TF to resolve on its own which it usually does but may take a long while to do so (e.g. a year or so).
> 
> I am not saying Bamboo has TF, just that it is a possibility, as it is not mentioned in the test results.
> 
> https://icatcare.org/advice/tritrichomonas-foetus-infection-in-cats/
> 
> Yes, probably best to transfer Kobe slowly to the new food.
> 
> Can you remind me - was it Bamboo who had the diarrhoea first and then Kobe got it? And how long had you had Bamboo when he became unwell with his bowel?


I'm sure it's possible, knowing my luck, that they have this  but having read about it, I don't think the symptoms apply to them, especially Bamboo. They both came from a breeder, and I asked Kobe's breeder if any of their cats or the other kittens had issues and they said no. So realistically I don't think they could have gotten infected anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong). I've also read about the medication and I'm not really keen on putting them through that 

Bamboo is 10 and a half months old, we got him when he was 9 weeks old and he never had any issues except the odd incident here and there when he was younger.

Kobe is 6 and a half months old and we got him when he was 9 weeks old as well, so he's been with us since April. I don't remember him having soft stool when we first got him. It's only after we transitioned him to the new food that he started getting a lot of flatulence (cleared the room!), bloating, and soft stool/occasional watery diarrhoea.

About a month ago now, Kobe had really bad explosive diarrhea. I took him to the vet, got him wormed again, and he was given a vitamin B injection. None of that worked, and Bamboo started having the same symptoms after Kobe was wormed. They've been having issues since then. I'm really baffled!


----------



## CatMum_

CatMum_ said:


> I'm sure it's possible, knowing my luck, that they have this  but having read about it, I don't think the symptoms apply to them, especially Bamboo. They both came from a breeder, and I asked Kobe's breeder if any of their cats or the other kittens had issues and they said no. So realistically I don't think they could have gotten infected anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong). I've also read about the medication and I'm not really keen on putting them through that
> 
> Bamboo is 10 and a half months old, we got him when he was 9 weeks old and he never had any issues except the odd incident here and there when he was younger.
> 
> Kobe is 6 and a half months old and we got him when he was 9 weeks old as well, so he's been with us since April. I don't remember him having soft stool when we first got him. It's only after we transitioned him to the new food that he started getting a lot of flatulence (cleared the room!), bloating, and soft stool/occasional watery diarrhoea.
> 
> About a month ago now, Kobe had really bad explosive diarrhea. I took him to the vet, got him wormed again, and he was given a vitamin B injection. None of that worked, and Bamboo started having the same symptoms after Kobe was wormed. They've been having issues since then. I'm really baffled!


Also, it seems that they had slightly different symptoms when things were really bad - Bamboo passed a bit of blood and mucus, and Kobe had a lot of flatulence. Bamboo was also throwing up but he hasn't for a while now.

My guess is the constant changing of their food has messed with their stomach so much that it's caused a lot of inflammation. Or perhaps they've both developed an intolerance to something at exactly the same time?


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## CatMum_

@chillminx Bamboo hasn't passed any stool since the softer one yesterday, and Kobe is passing hard stools, which is great. Bamboo, however, vomited up some chicken this morning. Really can't figure out what's wrong with him  could they be eating something toxic from somewhere?

If I remember correctly, he only started vomiting when I started feeding them concept for life. Could it be an ingredient in the food that isn't good for his tummy?


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> @chillminx Bamboo hasn't passed any stool since the softer one yesterday, and Kobe is passing hard stools, which is great. Bamboo, however, vomited up some chicken this morning. Really can't figure out what's wrong with him  could they be eating something toxic from somewhere?
> 
> If I remember correctly, he only started vomiting when I started feeding them concept for life. Could it be an ingredient in the food that isn't good for his tummy?


Vomiting can be caused foods disagreeing with the cat, but also by inflammation in the stomach or digestive tract. The inflammation makes the cat's stomach or bowel more sensitive and some foods may not be tolerated that might normally tolerated.

Are you feeding Bamboo just home cooked chicken plus a supplement? Is it one of the supplements I recommended, i.e. Felini or Purrform? I wouldn't give him C4Life.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Vomiting can be caused foods disagreeing with the cat, but also by inflammation in the stomach or digestive tract. The inflammation makes the cat's stomach or bowel more sensitive and some foods may not be tolerated that might normally tolerated.
> 
> Are you feeding Bamboo just home cooked chicken plus a supplement? Is it one of the supplements I recommended, i.e. Felini or Purrform? I wouldn't give him C4Life.


I've been giving him a tiny bit of C4L on the side. I ordered the supplement and it should get here tomorrow. I was worried that feeding him strictly home cooked chicken for so long won't be good for him. Shall I stop and give him chicken until tomorrow?


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> I've been giving him a tiny bit of C4L on the side. I ordered the supplement and it should get here tomorrow. I was worried that feeding him strictly home cooked chicken for so long won't be good for him. Shall I stop and give him chicken until tomorrow?


If you suspect the C4L might be causing the soft stools then I would stop feeding the C4L straight away.

It is only very short term he is to be on the plain chicken diet, so I wouldn't worry. If it were to be several weeks or months without a supplement that would be a concern.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> If you suspect the C4L might be causing the soft stools then I would stop feeding the C4L straight away.
> 
> It is only very short term he is to be on the plain chicken diet, so I wouldn't worry. If it were to be several weeks or months without a supplement that would be a concern.


That's reassuring, thank you  can eating solely chicken with a supplement make cats constipated? Will adding plenty of liquid prevent this?


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> That's reassuring, thank you  can eating solely chicken with a supplement make cats constipated? Will adding plenty of liquid prevent this?


Yes it can make them constipated. Liquid will help keep the bowel functioning but does not prevent constipation in every case.

With my allergic cat she was getting constipated on the meat + supplement diet. I added lamb kidney which she likes which helped a bit. She refused to eat lamb heart or lambs liver which would have helped more. Rice was no good for her. Pumpkin helped a little bit. But I am not keen on adding vegetables to cat food really.

A forum member recommended adding egg yolk (cooked or raw) or powdered egg yolk which increases peristalsis, so you could try that if need be.

The egg yolk did not help my girl. If I put more than a bit in her food she refused to eat it. At present I add 1 ml of lactulose to her food daily and that keeps her regular. It is not ideal but the best I have come up with for the moment. I would try all the other things first though if you need to, for Bamboo. Not all cats on a plain meat diet + supplement get constipated though. My cat has a very slow metabolism (has never had diarrhoea or soft stools).


----------



## jenny armour

jenny armour said:


> JJ my Nfcs has been diagnosed with Pancreatiis, not sure yet if its Chronic or Acute, but recommended high protein low cholorestral diet. At the moment I put him on HIlls ID because he had sickness and alot of diarrhoea and it was the only that agreed with him, but over the last two weeks he has had a couple of bouts of the runs. I am seeing the vet tomorrow morning for him to have a Vit B shot. Before I knew what it was he was having sensitive diets but they are not working now. The vet is still talking about him having a body scan in case of tumours as well. JJ is 11 years old


Not getting any answer in Cat Health so trying here


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## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> Yes it can make them constipated. Liquid will help keep the bowel functioning but does not prevent constipation in every case.
> 
> With my allergic cat she was getting constipated on the meat + supplement diet. I added lamb kidney which she likes which helped a bit. She refused to eat lamb heart or lambs liver which would have helped more. Rice was no good for her. Pumpkin helped a little bit. But I am not keen on adding vegetables to cat food really.
> 
> A forum member recommended adding egg yolk (cooked or raw) or powdered egg yolk which increases peristalsis, so you could try that if need be.
> 
> The egg yolk did not help my girl. If I put more than a bit in her food she refused to eat it. At present I add 1 ml of lactulose to her food daily and that keeps her regular. It is not ideal but the best I have come up with for the moment. I would try all the other things first though if you need to, for Bamboo. Not all cats on a plain meat diet + supplement get constipated though. My cat has a very slow metabolism (has never had diarrhoea or soft stools).


Bamboo passes stool maybe once every two days, and Kobe does daily (hard! Yay!!) Is this normal or should Bamboo pass stool daily?

If he becomes constipated I'll add some cooked chicken livers or hearts and see if he likes it.

Also, I've noticed both their coats have become pretty greasy and are not as soft and fluffy as they used to be. Bamboo also has flakes of dandruff when I brush him, mostly on his lower back area. Is this because of the diarrhea (which, bear in mind, lasted a month), is it the food, or could there be some other underlying condition affecting them both (which I highly doubt or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky!)?

Thanks so much and sorry for taking long to reply!


----------



## Burmese Boy

Hi, I would like get in touch with Chilliminx if possible. I have not been on the site for a few years as all was going well with my boy. Now he has recently been diagnosed with CKD in top of his IBS. This came as a complete shock to me. He had a bout of loose mucous bloody stools back in April, I only know what he is passing if he chooses to show me by doing it on the lawn or having a poo in the garden in front of me. Anyway vet put him back on steroids and his appetite picked up and his poo got solid again. He was on steroids for 3 months gradually being weaned off. Then August hit and that awful hot weather, heat always puts him off food and he was still drinking more, to my shame I did not think it was anything other than the weather, come September it calmed down and I thought his appetite would increase it didn’t and I could feel his backbone and sometimes on my lap he would twitch. Anyway last week he had full bloods done and vet came back and said worried about kidneys and just to give him anything to eat and having been down this road before and with him refusing the raw I knew how limited I would be so he got supermarket stuff as I knew there was a chance he would take it despite that I don’t like them. Ultra sound and urine test Monday and that’s what they came back with late stage 3 CKD. Does anyone have a cat with IBD/CKD. I know this is really tricky now. I am heartbroken he has been through so much in his little life. Having also got hit by a car 2 years ago and surviving that.


----------



## chillminx

Hi @Burmese Boy

I am very sorry to hear that Mika has been diagnosed with stage 3 CKD. Poor fellow, such a lot for him to cope with in addition to his bowel problems and food sensitivities. I think he must be about 11 yrs old by now?

The main thing as you say, is finding a food that will suit both the kidney and the bowel condition. A food that he will eat. [But no dry food at all].

Have you tried him with any of the renal dietary foods? Did he like them and did any of them suit his bowel? One of my previous cats with CKD used to like the RC Renal Chicken flavour.

Has the vet prescribed an antacid for Mika? The CKD can often cause an over-production of gastric acid and the IBD may do the same. Famotidine is the one I have had for cats with CKD and also have it for my boy with IBD (he has a course for a month every so often, but it can be given as a permanent treatment. Some vets prefer to prescribe one of the PPI drugs (proton pump inhibitor) such as esomeprazole. If the acid is being better controlled it will reduce the nausea that is often a symptom with CKD. And then his appetite may be better.

Does he have a drug to lower the blood pressure to help his kidney function?

If he will eat home cooked meat. you could add a phospherous binder to it, e.g. Ipakitine, (to help his kidneys) and also a vitamin and mineral supplement as a completer. Some such as Felini Complete (which you may have used when he was raw fed) are suitable for adding to cooked meat.

I am having to feed one of my girls a home cooked meat diet + completer, because she has such severe food allergies she couldn't tolerate any make or flavour of cat food. She has been much improved on the home cooked diet. I cook her meat in a slow cooker and it is very little trouble. Cutting up is what takes the most time,


----------



## CatMum_

CatMum_ said:


> Bamboo passes stool maybe once every two days, and Kobe does daily (hard! Yay!!) Is this normal or should Bamboo pass stool daily?
> 
> If he becomes constipated I'll add some cooked chicken livers or hearts and see if he likes it.
> 
> Also, I've noticed both their coats have become pretty greasy and are not as soft and fluffy as they used to be. Bamboo also has flakes of dandruff when I brush him, mostly on his lower back area. Is this because of the diarrhea (which, bear in mind, lasted a month), is it the food, or could there be some other underlying condition affecting them both (which I highly doubt or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky!)?
> 
> Thanks so much and sorry for taking long to reply!


@chillminx I hope I'm not getting on your nerves haha, just checking if you've had the time to read this. I'm getting a bit worried about the quality of their coats. They're very greasy and clumpy! They used to be so soft and shiny, never greasy to the touch. I'm assuming it's because of the nutrient loss when they had diarrhea, as well as eating plain chicken for so long?

I've ordered the animoda for neutered cats, pure turkey, so will slowly transition them both on to that. Quick question: will this provide them with enough nutrients, considering it's for neutered adult cats and not growing kittens?


----------



## Burmese Boy

chillminx said:


> Hi @Burmese Boy
> 
> I am very sorry to hear that Mika has been diagnosed with stage 3 CKD. Poor fellow, such a lot for him to cope with in addition to his bowel problems and food insensitivities. I think he must be about 11 yrs old by now?
> 
> The main thing as you say, is finding a food that will suit both the kidney and the bowel condition. A food that he will eat. [But no dry food at all].
> 
> Have you tried him with any of the renal dietary foods? Did he like them and did any of them suit his bowel? One of my previous cats with CKD used to like the RC Renal Chicken flavour.
> 
> Has the vet prescribed an antacid for Mika? The CKD can often cause an over-production of gastric acid and the IBD may do the same. Famotidine is the one I have had for cats with CKD and also have it for my boy with IBD (he has a course for a month every so often, but it can be given as a permanent treatment. Some vets prefer to prescribe one of the PPI drugs (proton pump inhibitor) such as esomeprazole. If the acid is being better controlled it will reduce the nausea that is often a symptom with CKD. And then his appetite may be better.
> 
> Does he have a drug to lower the blood pressure to help his kidney function?
> 
> If he will eat home cooked meat. you could add a phospherous binder to it, e.g. Ipakitine, (to help his kidneys) and also a vitamin and mineral supplement as a completer. Some such as Felini Complete (which you may have used when he was raw fed) are suitable for adding to cooked meat.
> 
> I am having to feed one of my girls a home cooked meat diet + completer, because she has such severe food allergies she couldn't tolerate any make or flavour of cat food. She has been much improved on the home cooked diet. I cook her meat in a slow cooker and it is very little trouble. Cutting up is what takes the most time,


----------



## Burmese Boy

Hello Chilliminx, thank you for replying. No I have not tried any of the renal diets. The vet said because of his IBD and food intolerances best not to because we had to get the diahorrea back under control before we could address the kidneys and I am not sure we have. Unfortunately he has not been so keen on the raw recently, but frankly he is not keen on anything. Even of the supermarket stuff, which contains all sorts of nasties but would previously been eaten with relish, if he could ever get his paws on it - very little is eaten. Unfortunately with him getting anything down him at the moment as he must eat is adding to the problem as no transitioning is taking place.

He has been on raw for several years now, the rabbit varieties, quail, venison and duck/turkey. Today he has had maybe a desert spoon of turkey and duck nothing more. It’s been offered and rejected, l tried purée it and that was even worse. I got some Meowing Heads turkey, he had a mouthful and walked away. This is with him on steroids which always used to make him hungry but no more. At this rate he will starve, he is getting so thin and losing muscle mass because he is not getting enough food, he is going back to the vets tomorrow because I am so worried. He has been doing that awful teeth grInding when he eats. 

It was a long journey trying to find something that stopped the diahorrea and l tried a number of different foods from Zooplus which did not work also cooked fish, which I think helped but having tried it again a while ago, it was rejected.
I will try some more this evening but unlikely he will eat it. I guess he must feel so ill by now that that is overriding everything. He has has a couple of the appetite stimulants they seem to help but only a little. I think he is slightly dehydrated now as well as his scruff springs back slowly.

The vet is not concerned over his phosphorus level but he does have low potassium and she also mentioned urea and something else and he has dilute urine. She has also not commented on his blood pressure.

I will ask about the antacids, he is not being sick though. He should not be on steroids with CKD but it’s a vicious circle and At the moment I feel that I will be losing him very soon and it breaks my heart. He is 11 1/2.

I will ask if there is anything else that they can give him at the moment maybe another appetite stimulant to tied him over until Monday when I am taking him back to the vet in the practice to diagnosed him with CKD.

I doubt he will eat cooked meat as he has never had it, I don’t know if I could try him on some turkey, lamb or beef mince. How would that be cooked just in water? Anything else you think he may accept?

I have got some cat litter tonight and he may use the tray so that I can see what his poo is like.

He is very difficult to medicate because he had that bad experience with mirtapazine where he was drooling and resists tablets if they can’t be crushed and he can’t smell or taste them. So it’s not easy.

Thanks.


----------



## chillminx

@Burmese Boy - I am sorry to hear things are so difficult right now. It must be worrying for you seeing him like this.

The teeth grinding is very much associated with nausea due to overproduction of gastric acid. 3 of my previous cats with CKD used to grind their teeth when eating and being prescribed Famotidine helped a lot. It has also helped my boy with IBD. I really would ask the vet for some for your boy. He is not going to want to eat if he feels nauseous a lot of the time.

I am surprised the vet is not concerned about his phos levels if he has stage 3 CKD. Usually phos levels are high if urea levels are high and urine is dilute.

If he is eating raw food you could add a phos binder to it (e...g. Ipakitine) which will help conserve what kidney function he has.


----------



## chillminx

CatMum_ said:


> @chillminx I hope I'm not getting on your nerves haha, just checking if you've had the time to read this. I'm getting a bit worried about the quality of their coats. They're very greasy and clumpy! They used to be so soft and shiny, never greasy to the touch. I'm assuming it's because of the nutrient loss when they had diarrhea, as well as eating plain chicken for so long?
> 
> I've ordered the animoda for neutered cats, pure turkey, so will slowly transition them both on to that. Quick question: will this provide them with enough nutrients, considering it's for neutered adult cats and not growing kittens?


You are not getting on my nerves  Sorry not to reply sooner.

The coat can become greasy and in poor condition when they are ill or under the weather. There could have been some nutrient loss when they had diarrhoea. But eating a plain chicken diet should not make their coats unkempt unless they had been on the diet for more than say 2 months. How long have they been eating just chicken?

My cat who is now on a home cooked meat diet (due to food allergies) had a coat that was not great condition while I was feeding her cat foods. Her coat was flaky and dry. Then I put her on the elimination diet for 8 weeks using a novel protein (kangaroo) . That was all she had for 8 weeks. Her coat began to improve within a couple of weeks and got better and better, becoming thick and shiny. By the end of the 8 weeks all the dry flakiness had gone.

I have kept her on the home cooked food, but now the elimination diet has finished I am adding a completer to the food, so she is getting all her minerals and vitamins. The one I use is Felini Complete from Zooplus. Her coat continues to look good.

Also in herself she seems much brighter and more energetic, though she has always been a very active cat anyway. I am very pleased with the results and have decided not to put her back on cat foods at all. There are too many additives and fillers that could disagree with her. Also I am not sure how good the quality of the meat is in cat foods. I know all makes use very cheap cuts of meat.

Giving Omega 3 oil improves coat and skin condition but I'd be wary of giving it to Bamboo because it can cause loose stools (same as oily fish can). If your other cat'/s stools are now firm all the time, you could try adding omega 3 to his food, but go very carefully, e.g. contents of one capsule twice a week to start with. I would use krill oil as it is often better liked than salmon oil. Snip the end of the capsule open with nail scissors and squeeze the oil onto food.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hellenia-K...1600465158&sprefix=krill+oil+,aps,185&sr=8-10


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## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> You are not getting on my nerves  Sorry not to reply sooner.
> 
> The coat can become greasy and in poor condition when they are ill or under the weather. There could have been some nutrient loss when they had diarrhoea. But eating a plain chicken diet should not make their coats unkempt unless they had been on the diet for more than say 2 months. How long have they been eating just chicken?
> 
> My cat who is now on a home cooked meat diet (due to food allergies) had a coat that was not great condition while I was feeding her cat foods. Her coat was flaky and dry. Then I put her on the elimination diet for 8 weeks using a novel protein (kangaroo) . That was all she had for 8 weeks. Her coat began to improve within a couple of weeks and got better and better, becoming thick and shiny. By the end of the 8 weeks all the dry flakiness had gone.
> 
> I have kept her on the home cooked food, but now the elimination diet has finished I am adding a completer to the food, so she is getting all her minerals and vitamins. The one I use is Felini Complete from Zooplus. Her coat continues to look good.
> 
> Also in herself she seems much brighter and more energetic, though she has always been a very active cat anyway. I am very pleased with the results and have decided not to put her back on cat foods at all. There are too many additives and fillers that could disagree with her. Also I am not sure how good the quality of the meat is in cat foods. I know all makes use very cheap cuts of meat.
> 
> Giving Omega 3 oil improves coat and skin condition but I'd be wary of giving it to Bamboo because it can cause loose stools (same as oily fish can). If your other cat'/s stools are now firm all the time, you could try adding omega 3 to his food, but go very carefully, e.g. contents of one capsule twice a week to start with. I would use krill oil as it is often better liked than salmon oil. Snip the end of the capsule open with nail scissors and squeeze the oil onto food.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hellenia-K-Real®-100-Antarctic-Krill/dp/B00C9HAI4K/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2QR7BZ4AGVLIL&dchild=1&keywords=krill+oil+capsules+500mg&qid=1600465158&sprefix=krill+oil+,aps,185&sr=8-10


Thank you so much for the reply 

Kobe was passing hard stool on the concept for life food, and Bamboo has been eating half cooked chicken, half concept for life and also passing hard stool.

Today I started transitioning them to the animoda pure turkey food. I gave them cooked chicken with about a spoonful of wet food. After the second meal, Bamboo had watery diarrhea. Was the introduction of the wet food too abrupt? I may have been a bit too generous. Should I keep him on chicken until he passes hard stool again and very slowly start adding the wet food?

Kobe hasn't passed any stool yet so I'm not sure what to expect from him.


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## chillminx

@CatMum_

I think Bamboo should be able to cope with you introducing one small spoonful of AVF Turkey for Neutered Cats after he has passed a firm stool. I am not sure why it did not agree with him.

Maybe put him back on the plain chicken again and when he passes a firm stool try him with just a teaspoonful of the AVF Turkey for Neutered cats. And keep to that for several days before increasing the AVF.


----------



## CatMum_

chillminx said:


> @CatMum_
> 
> I think Bamboo should be able to cope with you introducing one small spoonful of AVF Turkey for Neutered Cats after he has passed a firm stool. I am not sure why it did not agree with him.
> 
> Maybe put him back on the plain chicken again and when he passes a firm stool try him with just a teaspoonful of the AVF Turkey for Neutered cats. And keep to that for several days before increasing the AVF.


I continued giving him half chicken/half AVF anyway just to test it out and he hasn't done a diarrhoea since then. I also gave them 3 Thrive chicken breast treats each, so maybe that had an effect?

Either way I think (hope!) he's better now and the food seems to agree with him. Thank you so much for helping me out, I was really starting to lose hope and it's been a stressful and expensive 2 months!  I really appreciate your help.


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## chillminx

@CatMum_ you are very welcome. .

I am really glad Bamboo is feeling better. Hopefully he will continue to do well once you reduce the amount of chicken he is having. If any problems please let us know.  x


----------



## Panti pantera

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum. My rescue cat has recently been diagnosed with IBD (or at least so far the diagnostic is more likely to be IBD) and I've been giving her a prescription diet for almost 3 weeks now. I added a new post under Cat health and nutrition yesterday (IBD - newbie advice please) with more details and some questions at the bottom but so far no one has replied. I would really love if someone could help me, please...I'm at a loss of what to do next. Thank you so much.


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## Emlar

Hi all. Long time reader, but first post. 
Didnt want to take advice but not say thanks!
Our little Melvin has had loose stools since we took over her care from our neighbour (I assume shes had them for a long time, but they hardly fed her so definitely didn't do anything about her poop)
After a few vet trips, some medication, stool tests, etc. the vet seems to think she has IBD.
Have today bought her some chicken thighs and boiled them up to start her on a few days of just that to see if it firms up her poops. She is very excited by this and was purring round my feet as it was cooking so fingers crossed she enjoys it for the week!
Poor thing only weighs 2.8kg so hoping this helps her and she can put on a bit of weight.
Thanks again for all the advice on these forums, its all been very helpful and reassuring even though not aimed specifically at me


----------



## chillminx

Panti pantera said:


> Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum. My rescue cat has recently been diagnosed with IBD (or at least so far the diagnostic is more likely to be IBD) and I've been giving her a prescription diet for almost 3 weeks now. I added a new post under Cat health and nutrition yesterday (IBD - newbie advice please) with more details and some questions at the bottom but so far no one has replied. I would really love if someone could help me, please...I'm at a loss of what to do next. Thank you so much.


Hi, I have replied in your other thread


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## chillminx

Emlar said:


> Hi all. Long time reader, but first post.
> Didnt want to take advice but not say thanks!
> Our little Melvin has had loose stools since we took over her care from our neighbour (I assume shes had them for a long time, but they hardly fed her so definitely didn't do anything about her poop)
> After a few vet trips, some medication, stool tests, etc. the vet seems to think she has IBD.
> Have today bought her some chicken thighs and boiled them up to start her on a few days of just that to see if it firms up her poops. She is very excited by this and was purring round my feet as it was cooking so fingers crossed she enjoys it for the week!
> Poor thing only weighs 2.8kg so hoping this helps her and she can put on a bit of weight.
> Thanks again for all the advice on these forums, its all been very helpful and reassuring even though not aimed specifically at me


Hi Emlar and welcome, I am glad you have found the forums helpful 

Poor Melvin being so underweight bless her! I am so glad you have adopted her.

The cooked chicken thighs will rest her bowel by slowing down peristalsis. Do add some of the cooking liquid (stock) to her meals for fluids. Once she passes a formed poo you can gradually transfer her to cat food, wet food only for now.

If the poor poppet has been starving she'll have been eating anything she could get, including prey. So I recommend treating her for all types of worms. A multi-wormer such as Milbemax or Milpro from the vet is a good make. Or there are other makes sold in e.g. Pets at Home. The advantage with Milbemax/Milpro is it is a very small tablet so easy to crush and hide in food, or even pop down the cat's throat if they are co-operative! 

Do please keep us updated with how Melvin gets on. I expect her to blossom in your care.


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## Emlar

Hi chillminx Thank you for the reply.

Melvin has had a dewormer from the vets, as thats what they thought it was at first. Then had anti-biotics before the stool sample came back. 

She is most definitely not co operative with tablets. She's like a toddler who clamps their mouth shut and tries to wiggle away 

Shes on a short course of steroids now, so I'm hoping with that and the chicken diet her stools will firm up. Have saved the broth from boiling the chicken, so giving her bits of that too. 

We were feeding her Lilys Kitchen, Wainwrights and Meowing Heads wet food, so hoping we can go back to these, but more than willing to change her food if needed. Will keep you updated on the state of her poop!


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## Emlar

Melvin is on day 2 of her chicken diet. How soon would you expect an improvement? We saw her go a couple of times yesterday and it was just watery mucus. Today she has been feeling very sorry for herself and not really wanting to come indoors, which she normally would when the weather is bad. Everytime she comes in there is a strong smell of poop and we have to wipe her bum (which we sometimes had to before but not this often). Shes also on a short course of steroids (day3) so I'm not sure if that's making her feel rubbish. 

I dont want to change things too quickly, but can it sometimes take a few days to notice a difference?

Thanks!


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## chillminx

Emlar said:


> Melvin is on day 2 of her chicken diet. How soon would you expect an improvement? We saw her go a couple of times yesterday and it was just watery mucus. Today she has been feeling very sorry for herself and not really wanting to come indoors, which she normally would when the weather is bad. Everytime she comes in there is a strong smell of poop and we have to wipe her bum (which we sometimes had to before but not this often). Shes also on a short course of steroids (day3) so I'm not sure if that's making her feel rubbish.
> 
> I dont want to change things too quickly, but can it sometimes take a few days to notice a difference?
> 
> Thanks!


Poor Melvin! Usually there is some improvement straight away on the bland home cooked chicken diet. I would have expected the steroids to start helping too. It sounds as though she has some incontinence as the poo and mucous are seeping out of her rectum. No wonder the poor thing feels miserable, bless her. x

If her bowel is not settled by tomorrow I would switch her to poached white fish as it is very soothing for the bowel. (pollock, cod, coley or haddock - Tesco et al sell frozen bags of white fish quite reasonably) I am concerned to try and make her comfortable.

Do you know roughly how old Melvin is?

When you had the stool samples tested did you have a separate test for Tritrichomonas Foetus (TF) ? if not, it is worth ruling it out with another test. TF can cause chronic diarrhoea and is quite likely she could have it in view of her background of neglect before you adopted her.

Some information about the illness:

https://icatcare.org/advice/tritrichomonas-foetus-infection-in-cats/

As she is feeling pretty rotten atm, it's best to keep her shut indoors and provide several open litter trays for her. The weather (in the UK) is too wet and cold for a poorly cat to be outside for hours at a time.


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## Emlar

Thank you for the reply. She seems a bit perkier this evening, but still very runny stools and she is having trouble controlling when she is going. We've brought her in overnight and restricted her to the dining room/kitchen as these dont have soft furnishings! 

If no improvement tomorrow we will switch to fish. Maybe the poor thing has a chicken allergy and I've just made her feel a whole lot worse by not giving her anything else 

The vet thinks she might be around 5yrs old, but wasn't sure. 

Not sure on what they tested for, the vet didn't specify. But will ring them on Monday anyway if she hasn't improved.
She is still eating and drinking so not overly worried at the moment, but it cant be comfortable for her.

Thanks again for your help


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## chillminx

@Emlar - 5 years old is a young adult in my eyes,  [my youngest 2 cats are aged 7 y/old and still seem quite kittenish to me, LOL  ] There is every chance she can be helped to get better. Diet may be the crucial factor if she has IBD. It is possible she has an intolerance to chicken, so a good reason to switch her to white fish tomorrow.

I think poor Melvin was afraid to come indoors because she knew she can't control her bowel at present, and she was afraid of making a mess bless her. Puppy training pads or human incontinence sheets would be useful on the floor at present - easy to fold up and dispose of when they get soiled.

Also, do you have any vet bed fleece for her to sleep on? Liquids go through the Vetbed so the cat still has somewhere dry to lie. Put newspaper or a puppy pad underneath the Vetbed to catch the liquids.

The neglect this poor poppet has evidently suffered from the previous owner makes me angry! I am so glad Melvin now has you to look after her. x


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## Emlar

At first we thought she was an old lady because she was grumpy and not playful at all :Joyful but we think she was just unhappy! Poor thing. Our neighbours didn't let her in the house so she used to be curled up against our back wall whatever the weather. He also moaned that if she got shut in the house she would poo and vomit everywhere... pretty sure they didnt have a litter tray so not sure what he expected her to do. She gets very worried if she thinks she has done something 'wrong' and is scared of the neighbour so we assume he shouted at her a lot, and possibly booted her. We try very hard to show her that its okay and we aren't angry with her if she has an accident. She even thought the litter tray was bad to go in at first because it was indoors. So I am determined to give her a good life and sort out her tummy problems!!

I woke up this morning expecting poomageddon....and there was nothing! Shes very bright, had breakfast and went out in the garden to chase a robin around. Fingers crossed yesterday was just a blip, but maybe its because she didn't have anything to eat overnight...we shall see!


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## chillminx

I'm so pleased she is brighter today. . The more I hear about the horrible previous owner the more angry I get! It is awful when a cat has been bullied into being scared of doing anything wrong. I do hope she will gain self confidence over time, now she is safe with you. 

Thank you again for looking after her so well. x


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## Emlar

Shes brighter, but still having to wipe her bum this evening. So currently boiling up some haddock and will cross our fingers that she responds better to fish! As after 3 days on chicken I figure its not really working. Will be mad if this works and all along she just has a chicken allergy! 

She is currently not happy that she's not allowed outside tonight and also not allowed in the lounge or upstairs. Sulking and ignoring us :Joyful

We get angry when we think about her previous life too! They only live next door and she never goes back to them, which to me shows she wasn't happy there.


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## Emlar

No change for poor Melvin. Still watery poops. Shes going less but I think that's just because she's eating less. She's not as big a fan of the fish as she was of the chicken!
Not sure what else to do.
Have ordered her some probiotic paste to see if that helps. 
Will finish her steroid course and then ring the vets again to see what else they can suggest.


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## SbanR

Emlar said:


> No change for poor Melvin. Still watery poops. Shes going less but I think that's just because she's eating less. She's not as big a fan of the fish as she was of the chicken!
> Not sure what else to do.
> Have ordered her some probiotic paste to see if that helps.
> Will finish her steroid course and then ring the vets again to see what else they can suggest.


You could try her on Turkey.
Asda and Sainsbury do diced turkey thigh; most supermarkets carry whole turkey drumsticks.


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## chillminx

Emlar said:


> No change for poor Melvin. Still watery poops. Shes going less but I think that's just because she's eating less. She's not as big a fan of the fish as she was of the chicken!
> Not sure what else to do.
> Have ordered her some probiotic paste to see if that helps.
> Will finish her steroid course and then ring the vets again to see what else they can suggest.


As the bland diet is not bringing the hoped-for results, as I'd hoped it might, I think the next step should be to have her stools tested for Tritrichomonas Foetus (TF). It is a separate test to the standard faeces test you already had done for her.

If your vet is not keen to get the test done you can go to a vet lab that deals direct with the public as well as with vet practices. I have used this lab myself for my cats and they are reliable. It will cost less to do the test this way that going via the vet.

https://www.palsvetlab.co.uk/product/small-animal-kits/

I really think it is worth ruling out TF before anything else.


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## Emlar

I had a look at the site you posted about TF and it doesnt seem like there is much they can do to treat it? Is it worth getting the result if there is little that can be done different to treating IBD?


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## chillminx

Emlar said:


> I had a look at the site you posted about TF and it doesnt seem like there is much they can do to treat it? Is it worth getting the result if there is little that can be done different to treating IBD?


TF can be treated with an antibiotic called Ronidazole and it is usually successful. Some vets are reluctant to prescribe Ronidazole because of potential side effects, but these side effects disappear when the drug is stopped.

EDIT: https://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/digestive/c_ct_tritrichomomas


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## Emlar

Yes, I saw the ronidazole but as it wasn't licensed in cats I wasn't sure if the vets would willingly prescribe it or not. 

Will speak to the vet again once the steroids are finished.

Disappointed that the plain diets didn't work. Trust Melvin to be a tricky customer!


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## chillminx

Emlar said:


> Yes, I saw the ronidazole but as it wasn't licensed in cats I wasn't sure if the vets would willingly prescribe it or not.
> 
> Will speak to the vet again once the steroids are finished.
> 
> Disappointed that the plain diets didn't work. Trust Melvin to be a tricky customer!


Quite a few drugs that are not licensed for cats are often prescribed by vets. It is not against the law to do so, it just means the drug has not been through full clinical trials for use in cats. So vets use it on the basis that they know from their practice it works.

I hope most vets are more willing prescribe it nowadays as the alternative of no treatment is pretty miserable for the cat....and their owner.


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## Shelby F

Hi, I’m new to the forum, so not sure I’m posting this in the right place, but I really need some help/advice about IBD. I adopted my 5yr cat Charlie almost 3yrs ago. Within a week of having him a noticed He had gas and bleeding in his poo. Took him straight to the vet and after a lot of tests (all bar surgery), IBD was diagnosed. I immediately started Charlie on RC sensitivity, as my previous cat (RIP), had been on this in the last yr of his life. Charlie has been on the wet and dry RC ever since. Unfortunately this year he has had bouts of upset tummy again and lost weight. Along with the RC I also gave him boiled fresh white fish (loves the first dish or two, then bored), and fresh chicken (totally loves but some tummy troubles after a few days). Vet has put him on steroids, one per day for a few months now. 1) I don’t want to rely on them, especially at only 5yrs 2) the last couple of days on the RC diet and with steroids, his has had upset tummy and bleeding again. Vet recommend Purina, which I was about to buy today. However, having read some of the info on here, Im wondering if I should be doing more than that? Obviously I will avoid the meat ingredients in RC in my next food choice. Charlie does usually go out, but I keep him in at night, and he always has a tray indoors, so I can monitor it. I will take Charlie to the vet, for an injection to help calm the inflammation, but clearly I need to change his diet ASAP. Really grateful for advice/suggestions. Many thanks.


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## chillminx

Hello @Shelby F and welcome 

I am sorry to hear of Charlie's IBD and dietary issues.

If it is Purina HA Hypoallergenic that has been recommended for Charlie, it contains no meat but does contain soya, which some cats digestions cannot tolerate. It also contains rice starch which can be a problem for a cat who is intolerant of grains, and fish oil (sourced from salmon) which can be a problem for a cat who is intolerant of, or allergic to salmon.

Ingredients:
Rice starch, hydrolysed soya protein, soya oil, minerals, cellulose, hydrolysate², animal fat, fish oil.

I agree with you, it is not the best thing for Charlie to be on longterm steroids for IBD, because steroids can cause insulin resistance in cats, triggering diabetes mellitus. Once a cat has been diagnosed with diabetes they can never have steroids again. I had a cat this had happened to before I adopted her, after her owner died. Managing her IBD and her diabetes was not easy at all.

Have you considered putting Charlie on an elimination diet for 8 weeks, using a novel protein? It might be of interest to you to read the pinned thread about the diet.

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/


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## Shelby F

Hi @chillminx thanks so much for the reply. An elimination diet is where I was heading, but I didn't have the comprehensive details you've provided, so that is fantastic, really appreciate it. I have ordered some Catz kangaroo to start him off. Couple of questions, 1) do you recommend keeping Charlie in whilst trying this diet? I figure it's the only way to be 100% sure he isn't eating anything else. 2) any thoughts on using a probiotic whilst trying the diet? 
Thanks again for the advice, and taking the time to respond. Obviously I'm bias, but Charlie is adorable and his IBD not being detected for who knows how long, may have made it worse, and I just want the best for him. Thanks Shelby


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## chillminx

Shelby F said:


> Hi @chillminx thanks so much for the reply. An elimination diet is where I was heading, but I didn't have the comprehensive details you've provided, so that is fantastic, really appreciate it. I have ordered some Catz kangaroo to start him off. Couple of questions, 1) do you recommend keeping Charlie in whilst trying this diet? I figure it's the only way to be 100% sure he isn't eating anything else. 2) any thoughts on using a probiotic whilst trying the diet?
> Thanks again for the advice, and taking the time to respond. Obviously I'm bias, but Charlie is adorable and his IBD not being detected for who knows how long, may have made it worse, and I just want the best for him. Thanks Shelby


8 weeks is a long time to keep Charlie indoors if he is used to going out. I didn't keep any of my cats indoors while they were on the diet. It would have been too stressful for them to be denied outdoor access, and the aim was to lower their stress levels and calm their immune systems. I live in a rural area with a good size garden (which is now catproofed) so there is nothing for cats to eat outdoors except prey (mice, voles etc) which being a natural food for cats would be unlikely to cause an allergic immune response. The 4 cats who were on the elimination diet rarely hunted prey anyway.

If he has been having the probiotic for a while and has had no adverse effects from it (e.g. itchiness or loose stools) then I would continue with it while he is on the diet. But if you were thinking of introducing a probiotic now, then I would hold off for the moment. It is best to keep the diet as simple as possible at this stage.

Which probiotic is it? One make I don''t recommend for a cat with a sensitive bowel is Fortiflora.


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## Shelby F

chillminx said:


> 8 weeks is a long time to keep Charlie indoors if he is used to going out. I didn't keep any of my cats indoors while they were on the diet. It would have been too stressful for them to be denied outdoor access, and the aim was to lower their stress levels and calm their immune systems. I live in a rural area with a good size garden (which is now catproofed) so there is nothing for cats to eat outdoors except prey (mice, voles etc) which being a natural food for cats would be unlikely to cause an allergic immune response. The 4 cats who were on the elimination diet rarely hunted prey anyway.
> 
> If he has been having the probiotic for a while and has had no adverse effects from it (e.g. itchiness or loose stools) then I would continue with it while he is on the diet. But if you were thinking of introducing a probiotic now, then I would hold off for the moment. It is best to keep the diet as simple as possible at this stage.
> 
> Which probiotic is it? One make I don''t recommend for a cat with a sensitive bowel is Fortiflora.


Charlie loves to go out. I have a big garden, but he also wanders. He does hunt, but I have only seen evidence of eating mice, the squirrels he catches purely seem to be gifts for me, as they are fully intact when he brings those home! ‍♀ He has had a probiotic the vet recommended, cobalaplex, which is a powder, not regularly lately though. I'll leave a probiotic for later and look at a paste, as I think Charlie will prefer that. I've had pro-Kolin+ paste before, from the same maker as the powder, Protexin Veterinary. Same with the Omega 3, one for later. I noticed the one you recommended doesn't appear on the site anymore, I think only the one from salmon. I found an interesting article around dosage for fish oils too (Link below in case you want to read).
Thanks again for all your help and advice. Can't wait for the new food to arrive and get Charlie started on it, and off steroids. Thanks Shelby
The site won't let me add the link, but it's on the today's veterinary practice website and titled fish oil dosing in pet diets and supplements.


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## chillminx

@Shelby F - yes I would definitely avoid giving Cobalaplex while Charlie is on the elimination diet. According to the listed ingredients it does not contain any probiotic, only a prebiotic.

I am not keen on giving a pre-biotic to cats with food sensitivities as it can cause flatulence and abdominal discomfort. It also contains chicken flavouring which is best avoided during an elimination diet.

Cobalaplex contains:

Cobalamin (vitamin B12) - a water soluble vitamin that plays an important role in many physiological processes.
Folic acid (vitamin B9) - a synthetic form of folate which is another important water soluble vitamin that is essential for DNA synthesis and repair and therefore plays a key role in cell division and growth.
Preplex prebiotics - a combination of prebiotics to help support a healthy gastrointestinal microbiota and keep your pet's tummy happy.
Chicken flavouring to improve palatability.
If you decide to introduce a PRObiotic after the diet is finished I would go for a plain probiotic, nothing added. One of the best in terms of the good bacteria for improving bowel flora is Bioglans, which comes as capsules of powder. Start with a very small amount and build up slowly to half a capsule a day.

Thanks for the info about the dosage of omega 3 fish oil. I'll have a look at the Today's Veterinary Practice website.


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## jasmine2

nicolaa123 said:


> My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.
> 
> I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.
> 
> As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.
> 
> I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??
> 
> Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.
> 
> Thanks..


My cats eat felix and my younger cats have continuous upset tummy on it so I've been trying to change their diet with no success. I've tried all the brands from Zooplus but they only like it as treat food not every day food.?this continuously trying new food has further upset tummy and they are having upset tummies more often sometimes with vomting and are sleeping more and loosing weight.


nicolaa123 said:


> My four year old cat who has had a few problems during his life, starting with diarrhea, poor weight gain leading to a sore bum with blood and then weight loss. He has had scans and also a colonoscopy. The results of which point to ibd/colitis.
> 
> I have started the thread for others to share their experiences, what works and what does not work. What treatment you have tried and the outcome. Plus what foods have helped manage the condition.
> 
> As it is all quite new only getting the results today, the vet is suggesting steroids and ab's to reduce the inflamation. She said to keep with the hills wet d/d until it does not help with the sore bum.
> 
> I have heard that aloe Vera is meant to be good at treating colitis, has anyone tried it??
> 
> Please feel free to post your experiences ask questions as the more we can share the more we can help our cats manage their symptoms.
> 
> Thanks..


----------



## chillminx

jasmine2 said:


> My cats eat felix and my younger cats have continuous upset tummy on it so I've been trying to change their diet with no success. I've tried all the brands from Zooplus but they only like it as treat food not every day food.?this continuously trying new food has further upset tummy and they are having upset tummies more often sometimes with vomting and are sleeping more and loosing weight.


You are right, it is best not to keep trying new foods as it can make matter worse, as you have found.

The best thing now is to take the cats who have diarrhoea or loose stools off the cat food for a few days and feed them home cooked chicken. (legs, thighs or drumsticks). The meat should ideally be cooked in the oven in a roasting pan with 5 cms of water added for stock, and the pan covered with baking foil. Cook gas mark 5 for 1 hour. Serve chopped with the skin but without the bone. This cooking method is best for conserving nutrients (or you could use a slow cooker if you have one).

Strain the stock into a bowl or jug and refrigerate for 12 hours, skim off the fat [and save for other meals or for cooking,] and you are left with a tasty jelly which can be added to the chicken meals by the tablespoonful, warmed to make if liquid. It can also be diluted slightly with water to make it go further.

The diet works by resting the bowel. There may be no poos for a few days. Once they pass a normal formed stool, you can start slowly transferring them back to cat food, wet food only, no dry food. Take about 3 days to make the transfer from the chicken diet to the cat food.

Which wet foods have you tried? Have any of them been better than the others in terns of how their stools are affected. ? It would be best if possible to avoid adding another new food, but if all the wet foods you tried have cause loose stools there is no point in feeding any of those foods.

Some wet foods I'd recommend (after the chicken diet) are

Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered cats, Pure Turkey (Zooplus UK).
Miamor Mild Meals (trays) (from Zooplus UK).

Both foods that are very digestible.

Or you could transfer them to a veterinary diet (after the chicken diet) such as RC Gastrointestinal. which may be a useful intermediate stage after the chicken,

Foods from UK pet stores for delicate tummies - HiLife The One Chicken pouches, or Little Big Paw Mousse

When introducing a new food always start with a tiny amount - one teaspoonful served on a separate dish along side their usual food (in this instance the "usual" food will be the home cooked chicken), If all is well with their poos by 24 hours later increase the amount of the new food to a dessertspoonful, then wait 24 hours for any ill effects. If there are none increase new food to a tablespoonful, and if no ill effects in 24 hours, increase to 2 tablespoons, and then if all is Ok feed normally after that.


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## OrientalSlave

Is it possible to summarise the 183 pages of this thread? I have a friend whose cat might have IBD but I can't ask her to read all this, plus I suspect there's a lot of repeating going on.


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## jasmine2

chillminx said:


> You are right, it is best not to keep trying new foods as it can make matter worse, as you have found.
> 
> The best thing now is to take the cats who have diarrhoea or loose stools off the cat food for a few days and feed them home cooked chicken. (legs, thighs or drumsticks). The meat should ideally be cooked in the oven in a roasting pan with 5 cms of water added for stock, and the pan covered with baking foil. Cook gas mark 5 for 1 hour. Serve chopped with the skin but without the bone. This cooking method is best for conserving nutrients (or you could use a slow cooker if you have one).
> 
> Strain the stock into a bowl or jug and refrigerate for 12 hours, skim off the fat [and save for other meals or for cooking,] and you are left with a tasty jelly which can be added to the chicken meals by the tablespoonful, warmed to make if liquid. It can also be diluted slightly with water to make it go further.
> 
> The diet works by resting the bowel. There may be no poos for a few days. Once they pass a normal formed stool, you can start slowly transferring them back to cat food, wet food only, no dry food. Take about 3 days to make the transfer from the chicken diet to the cat food.
> 
> Which wet foods have you tried? Have any of them been better than the others in terns of how their stools are affected. ? It would be best if possible to avoid adding another new food, but if all the wet foods you tried have cause loose stools there is no point in feeding any of those foods.
> 
> Some wet foods I'd recommend (after the chicken diet) are
> 
> Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered cats, Pure Turkey (Zooplus UK).
> Miamor Mild Meals (trays) (from Zooplus UK).
> 
> Both foods that are very digestible.
> 
> Or you could transfer them to a veterinary diet (after the chicken diet) such as RC Gastrointestinal. which may be a useful intermediate stage after the chicken,
> 
> Foods from UK pet stores for delicate tummies - HiLife The One Chicken pouches, or Little Big Paw Mousse
> 
> When introducing a new food always start with a tiny amount - one teaspoonful served on a separate dish along side their usual food (in this instance the "usual" food will be the home cooked chicken), If all is well with their poos by 24 hours later increase the amount of the new food to a dessertspoonful, then wait 24 hours for any ill effects. If there are none increase new food to a tablespoonful, and if no ill effects in 24 hours, increase to 2 tablespoons, and then if all is Ok feed normally after that.


Thank you so much I was desperate for them to start eating a protein rich and high meat content food as I was finding white pieces in felix food. Today I found two tiny black spots like things in felix I had already given half pouch to my one cat, and when I gave the last half portion to my other cat,I noticed two black spots in the food. I immediately threw away the food but my other cat had already eaten the other half portion. I don't think felix is good quality anymore like it used to. I'm desperate for them to start eating a good quality food. I've noticed if I give high meat content food to my cats either they don't like it or they get upset tummy. One of my younger cat gets blood in his poo. Either it's too rich for them or I've upset their delicate stomach by experimenting with different foods more often. I think he already has delicate tummy so he can't digest high meat content food and my other cats which had healthy digestive system are now also getting upset tummies due to change in the food frequently. I've now tried catessy cat food and most of my cats seem to like it. It's not high protein but at least some of them like it. I'm not feeding it as main meal or mixing with their exciting food, I only feed one pouch to each cat after every few days to see if they still like it or if they will have upset tummy on it. I've noticed that mixing little amount of new food with their old food still gives some of my cats runny poos. So I just give one full pouch to each cat. First time all of them liked it, second time after few days when I tried catessy, two of my cats wont touch it and want felix. Today I'm going to give them boil chicken and make it as you have suggested


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## Peter Goadby-Watt

My cat Yogi (rescue cat) has been diagnosed with IBD and we adopted him with a raw meat diet. Generally he is well and his stools are solid. Occasionally he has diarrhoea and recently has been vomiting clear fluid. He is given regular prescribed B12 supplements. I am worried that he may be becoming dehydrated. We have him on a raw chicken based diet, sometimes mixed with liver, rabbit or beef. Is there anything else we can try? We do give him occasional freeze dried meat treats. Thank you


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## chillminx

Peter Goadby-Watt said:


> My cat Yogi (rescue cat) has been diagnosed with IBD and we adopted him with a raw meat diet. Generally he is well and his stools are solid. Occasionally he has diarrhoea and recently has been vomiting clear fluid. He is given regular prescribed B12 supplements. I am worried that he may be becoming dehydrated. We have him on a raw chicken based diet, sometimes mixed with liver, rabbit or beef. Is there anything else we can try? We do give him occasional freeze dried meat treats. Thank you


Hello and welcome 

Do you add water to his raw meats so he has more fluids?

Would he drink home made chicken, turkey or beef broth?


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## Peter Goadby-Watt

Hi, all great ideas and will try them out. Many thanks


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## jasmine2

chillminx said:


> You are right, it is best not to keep trying new foods as it can make matter worse, as you have found.
> 
> The best thing now is to take the cats who have diarrhoea or loose stools off the cat food for a few days and feed them home cooked chicken. (legs, thighs or drumsticks). The meat should ideally be cooked in the oven in a roasting pan with 5 cms of water added for stock, and the pan covered with baking foil. Cook gas mark 5 for 1 hour. Serve chopped with the skin but without the bone. This cooking method is best for conserving nutrients (or you could use a slow cooker if you have one).
> 
> Strain the stock into a bowl or jug and refrigerate for 12 hours, skim off the fat [and save for other meals or for cooking,] and you are left with a tasty jelly which can be added to the chicken meals by the tablespoonful, warmed to make if liquid. It can also be diluted slightly with water to make it go further.
> 
> The diet works by resting the bowel. There may be no poos for a few days. Once they pass a normal formed stool, you can start slowly transferring them back to cat food, wet food only, no dry food. Take about 3 days to make the transfer from the chicken diet to the cat food.
> 
> Which wet foods have you tried? Have any of them been better than the others in terns of how their stools are affected. ? It would be best if possible to avoid adding another new food, but if all the wet foods you tried have cause loose stools there is no point in feeding any of those foods.
> 
> Some wet foods I'd recommend (after the chicken diet) are
> 
> Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered cats, Pure Turkey (Zooplus UK).
> Miamor Mild Meals (trays) (from Zooplus UK).
> 
> Both foods that are very digestible.
> 
> Or you could transfer them to a veterinary diet (after the chicken diet) such as RC Gastrointestinal. which may be a useful intermediate stage after the chicken,
> 
> Foods from UK pet stores for delicate tummies - HiLife The One Chicken pouches, or Little Big Paw Mousse
> 
> When introducing a new food always start with a tiny amount - one teaspoonful served on a separate dish along side their usual food (in this instance the "usual" food will be the home cooked chicken), If all is well with their poos by 24 hours later increase the amount of the new food to a dessertspoonful, then wait 24 hours for any ill effects. If there are none increase new food to a tablespoonful, and if no ill effects in 24 hours, increase to 2 tablespoons, and then if all is Ok feed normally after that.


I wanted to ask you about Smilla cat food, I've read in one of your old post that it's loaded with animal digest? I had given Smilla to my cat and most of my cats ate it happily so I ordered it from Zooplus but than I saw your comment about too much animal digest and now I'm confused. Strange thing is that after eating Smilla my cats are not that much interested in felix especially fish flavour. Perhaps they are missing animal digest in Smilla and I don't want them to get addicted to it


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## chillminx

jasmine2 said:


> I wanted to ask you about Smilla cat food, I've read in one of your old post that it's loaded with animal digest? I had given Smilla to my cat and most of my cats ate it happily so I ordered it from Zooplus but than I saw your comment about too much animal digest and now I'm confused. Strange thing is that after eating Smilla my cats are not that much interested in felix especially fish flavour. Perhaps they are missing animal digest in Smilla and I don't want them to get addicted to it


The Smilla tinned recipes were changed about 3 years ago and use better quality ingredients now. I think maybe you're referring to a post written before Smilla changed their recipes.

Smilla used to contain Meat Meal which is a rendered product with denatured proteins. Animal Digest would no doubt be added at the end of manufacture to flavour it.

"Meat Meal" is made from the leftovers of the meat and fishing industries. The animal tissues are rendered (a method of cooking at a very high temperature). After rendering the dried solids are added as 'meal' to pet food. The temperatures used in rendering may alter or destroy natural enzymes and proteins.

Rendered products are considered "unfit for human consumption." Rendered products usually have relatively high levels of protein but the quality of the proteins can be questionable.The inferior proteins are often unpalatable to cats (and dogs) and so artificial flavours are sprayed on the food in order to get pets to consume it (e.g. Animal Digest is one flavouring often added).

Animal Digest in itself is not really a problem, it is just a flavouring of low nutritional value. The significance of Animal Digest is that it is added to foods made with a high percentage of meat meal to flavour it, to make it palatable for cats to eat.

Animal Digest is added to many dry foods to flavour it. Dry foods are often made of meat meal.

The current Smilla recipes may contain some Animal Digest (I don't know) but as the current recipes are no longer made with Meat Meal, [they are made from meat and meat by-products same as most cat foods], it is less likely the current recipes contain a lot of Animal Digest.

I would carry on feeding your cats Smilla tinned food. (which is not a bad food at all) and perhaps add another couple of makes for variety to ensure all their nutritional needs are being met.


----------



## jasmine2

chillminx said:


> The Smilla tinned recipes were changed about 3 years ago and use better quality ingredients now. I think maybe you're referring to a post written before Smilla changed their recipes.
> 
> Smilla used to contain Meat Meal which is a rendered product with denatured proteins. Animal Digest would no doubt be added at the end of manufacture to flavour it.
> 
> "Meat Meal" is made from the leftovers of the meat and fishing industries. The animal tissues are rendered (a method of cooking at a very high temperature). After rendering the dried solids are added as 'meal' to pet food. The temperatures used in rendering may alter or destroy natural enzymes and proteins.
> 
> Rendered products are considered "unfit for human consumption." Rendered products usually have relatively high levels of protein but the quality of the proteins can be questionable.The inferior proteins are often unpalatable to cats (and dogs) and so artificial flavours are sprayed on the food in order to get pets to consume it (e.g. Animal Digest is one flavouring often added).
> 
> Animal Digest in itself is not really a problem, it is just a flavouring of low nutritional value. The significance of Animal Digest is that it is added to foods made with a high percentage of meat meal to flavour it, to make it palatable for cats to eat.
> 
> Animal Digest is added to many dry foods to flavour it. Dry foods are often made of meat meal.
> 
> The current Smilla recipes may contain some Animal Digest (I don't know) but as the current recipes are no longer made with Meat Meal, [they are made from meat and meat by-products same as most cat foods], it is less likely the current recipes contain a lot of Animal Digest.
> 
> I would carry on feeding your cats Smilla tinned food. (which is not a bad food at all) and perhaps add another couple of makes for variety to ensure all their nutritional needs are being met.


Thank you so much, I will now continue with Smilla ❤


----------



## nrbone1987

Hey everyone,

My poor chat Charlie is currently in the Vetinary hospital with suspected IBD. He is a ginger and white domestic shorthair, and at 3 years old they suspect it's IBD rather than something more sinister given his age. Having said this he's having a biopsy done tomorrow to rule out cancer. He means so much to me and only last year he survived an RTA which nearly cost him his life, so I feel like it's always him out of our 3 cats that seems to go through everything. 

His symptoms pre going into hospital was intermittent, but pretty persistent, vomiting of clear fluid and regurgitation of food. He had diorreah a couple of times but it was the vomiting that was worse. Am I in the right thread to share stories and seek advice as and when after his return home?? Or is colitis something different? 
Thank you so much
Nat xxx


----------



## Emlar

I hope your little Charlie is okay. Please keep us updated with how it goes.

Our Melvin has now been booked in for a biopsy at the start of February as after many tests, medications and bland diets she still has diahorrea. Right now I'm more worried about the price of the op and tests (!!) but will definitely be worried for her as it gets close to the date.


----------



## chillminx

nrbone1987 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> My poor chat Charlie is currently in the Vetinary hospital with suspected IBD. He is a ginger and white domestic shorthair, and at 3 years old they suspect it's IBD rather than something more sinister given his age. Having said this he's having a biopsy done tomorrow to rule out cancer. He means so much to me and only last year he survived an RTA which nearly cost him his life, so I feel like it's always him out of our 3 cats that seems to go through everything.
> 
> His symptoms pre going into hospital was intermittent, but pretty persistent, vomiting of clear fluid and regurgitation of food. He had diorreah a couple of times but it was the vomiting that was worse. Am I in the right thread to share stories and seek advice as and when after his return home?? Or is colitis something different?
> Thank you so much
> Nat xxx


Hello Nat 

I am sorry to hear about Charlie's suspected IBD. Frequent vomiting, and regurgitation were the two main symptoms my boys (brothers) had when they were diagnosed with IBD 9 years ago at the age of 2. Their episodes of diarrhoea were infrequent.

The solution to manage my cats' IBD was to find a diet they could tolerate. It did take about a year but once I had it sorted the vomiting episodes reduced from twice a week to once every 3 months on average. I was determined my boys would not be put on steroids, and they never were.

Colitis affects the large bowel; whereas IBD can affect anywhere in the digestive tract from mouth to anus, though it seems to affect mostly the small intestine in many cases. .

I hope Charlie gets on OK with the biopsy and nothing sinister is found.


----------



## nrbone1987

Thank you so much chillminx and emlar, I really appreciate your replies and advice! 

Charlie is still in the Vetinary hospital and just had his biopsy today. My friend is a Vetinary surgeon (luckily!) and did the examination. She said his intestines looked normal, his bloods have showed up nothing, but out of all the lymph nodes there is one that's enlarged. I worried about this and thought the worst but she said that it could be an infection. She said she couldn't feel any nasty big tumours and she still suspects it is IBD. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's nothing more sinister, although I know IBD too is a lifelong diagnosis as well. 

I'm sorry to hear that Melvin is having to have a biopsy too! Fingers crossed that all works out well for her. Chillminx that's amazing that you were able to get your boys' concerns under control with diet, that's a credit to you. 

I'll keep you posted with his progress!

thank you so much
Nat x


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## chillminx

I am very pleased to hear nothing sinister has been found in Charlie's biopsy.  I hope the infection (if that is what it is) can be treated and he will soon feel better. x


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## Emlar

Glad Charlie's biopsy went okay and all looks normal.

Sounds awful, but I'm hoping that Melvin's biopsy is abnormal... :Muted Otherwise we are running out of options of what is going on with her. Although she is otherwise healthy, so it might be that she just has to put up with having loose poops forever! (And we'll have to put up with cleaning it off the sides of the litter tray, floor, walls....:Arghh)


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## nrbone1987

Oh gosh Emlar no I totally know what you mean. You just want a diagnosis don't you so at least you know how to move forward! 

we get the results back for Charlie in 7 days (give or take a few days due to Christmas) so I will be keeping my fingers crossed until then that it's not cancerous. 

If it's IBD I will also need to be putting my two other very fussy cats onto a hypoallergenic food along with Charlie, if I understand things correctly... I can imagine a few trying months ahead! 

thank you for your advice and support xxx


----------



## Jenbob21

If it's IBD I will also need to be putting my two other very fussy cats onto a hypoallergenic food along with Charlie, if I understand things correctly... I can imagine a few trying months ahead!


Hope you yet some answers! We have a similar with our boy, which the vet can only point to being diet related. We got a microchip feeder for our other cat who doesnt have any issues, so she can still have food she likes. After an initial cost to buy the feeder, it's also definately cheaper than feeding them both on the hypoallergenic food in the long run, so may be something to consider for your other cats!


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## nrbone1987

That's a really good idea about the timed feeder. Do you separate them into rooms to have dinner at different times? We live in a completely open plan house so trying to separate meals between them is going to be difficult. 

Charlie is finally home from the vets today but he is still high as a kite from his intestinal biopsy yesterday. From the looks of the invoice he had vetergesic. It's like looking after a drunk teenager!! 

Hope your boy stays well JenBob21


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## Jenbob21

No it's a feeder than opens when our girl Zola approaches it as it recognises her chip rather than working on a timer. We feed them at the same time but on opposite sides of the room. Zola can still eat Jofras food if she chooses but rarely does, think she is sick of it!! 

Yes hes on steroids at the moment which I think is more of a short term fix but gives his tummy a rest at least (and me a rest from cleaning up a mess on a morning!!)


----------



## chillminx

nrbone1987 said:


> That's a really good idea about the timed feeder. Do you separate them into rooms to have dinner at different times? We live in a completely open plan house so trying to separate meals between them is going to be difficult.
> 
> Charlie is finally home from the vets today but he is still high as a kite from his intestinal biopsy yesterday. From the looks of the invoice he had vetergesic. It's like looking after a drunk teenager!!
> 
> Hope your boy stays well JenBob21


The microchipped feeder (by Sure Pet Care) is brilliant because it gives each cat control over their own food resources - only the individual cat can access their own feeder.

Feeding the cats at different heights (one on the floor, one on a table, or shelf) at least 10 ft apart from each other is a good idea in an open plan setting. The microchip feeders are an added bonus.


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## Laura 25

Hi everyone. 

So after a LONG couple of months and LOTS of tests the vet thinks my 15 years old cat has IBD. She already has a over-active thyroid and asthma. She doesn't do things by half.

So after doing an elimination diet I found 2 things; tiger will not eat anything for days in end. And turkey and poultry seem to be a trigger. She has always had loose stools but at her worst there is blood, mucus and excess liquid.
I've tried lots of different foods but the foods she seems to like are felix as good as it gets, the pork and duck one. She does like whiskers fish senior in jelly too.
The stuff you get from zoopla she's not fussed about and I have spent a lot of money on trying different flavours. She's not a big fan of pate type food- probably because she doesn't have many teeth left
She likes thrive chicken and she sometimes eats some of the thrive biscuits but not enough for a meal.
Gravy is not good for her either as after a few days it builds up in her system and she has diarrhoea 2-3 a day.
We've tried the supplements you can add to her food and that doesn't seem to help and steroids had no affect. 
She's often very gasey too.

So with all that does anyone have any recommendations on foods? I do cook her chicken and beef which she enjoys but I have another cat too so as you can imagine it can get expensive. 

Thank you for reading!

Laura and Tiger


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## chillminx

Hi @Laura 25 - thank you for the update on Tiger.

How did she get on with the Animonda VF for neutered cats I sent you a while ago? Was she not impressed? Or did the turkey give her loose stools ?

Felix AGAIL is Ok if she will eat it. All the meaty flavours contain chicken and/or beef, even though they state e.g. "duck" or 'pork" as being the flavour. So it seems doubtful she is intolerant of poultry if she is getting on OK with the Felix. Likewise with the Thrive Complete Chicken, if she is Ok with that.

When you did the elimination diet, which novel protein did you use? (e.g. kangaroo, reindeer, goat, horse)

Have you tried her with any of the Mjamjam tinned foods? (available at present from Amazon UK). Or Venandi tinned foods? (also from Amazon) Both very good quality and also single protein, which is best for a cat with food intolerances.

Or Leonardo Poultry or Ocean fish from Zooplus.

If you are feeding her any dry food, I would gradually take her off it, it will help to manage her IBD if she is not eating dry food. My cats with IBD could never eat any dry food without getting loose stools.


----------



## Laura 25

chillminx said:


> Hi @Laura 25 - thank you for the update on Tiger.
> 
> How did she get on with the Animonda VF for neutered cats I sent you a while ago? Was she not impressed? Or did the turkey give her loose stools ?
> 
> Felix AGAIL is Ok if she will eat it. All the meaty flavours contain chicken and/or beef, even though they state e.g. "duck" or 'pork" as being the flavour. So it seems doubtful she is intolerant of poultry if she is getting on OK with the Felix. Likewise with the Thrive Complete Chicken, if she is Ok with that.
> 
> When you did the elimination diet, which novel protein did you use? (e.g. kangaroo, reindeer, goat, horse)
> 
> Have you tried her with any of the Mjamjam tinned foods? (available at present from Amazon UK). Or Venandi tinned foods? (also from Amazon) Both very good quality and also single protein, which is best for a cat with food intolerances.
> 
> Or Leonardo Poultry or Ocean fish from Zooplus.
> 
> If you are feeding her any dry food, I would gradually take her off it, it will help to manage her IBD if she is not eating dry food. My cats with IBD could never eat any dry food without getting loose stools.


Hi Steph
Merry Christmas to you ❤
She always has loose stools. At best they are loose but formed. When she has something that really upset her her stools are a very light sand colour with blood AND mucus in. Her thyroid is now under control after a few months of elevating to the right dose. 
I tried the turkey food you sent but she didn't eat it.
She'll not eat anything thats the same flavour for consecutive days. She's very stubborn and then drives me insane with constant miaowing if I put her food down she doesn't like.
When I did the elimination diet I fed her the carny horse which she ate for a few days then refused it. I think turkey is a big factor as I gave her some cooked turkey (just in its own juices) and the next morning and there was diarrhoea everywhere! She gets very bad wind and I can her little tummy rattling about when she's digesting. I'll try the foods off amazon you suggested.
Her breath and remaining teeth have got worse since she stopped eating biscuits that's why I tried the thrive biscuits but she's not fussed about them.
She's never been a big water, the only thing she really enjoys is cheese but I darent give her that now with her tummy being like it is. 
Thank you for your reply steph. I really appreciate it.

Laura


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## chillminx

@Laura 25 - you are very welcome hun  Sorry she wouldn't eat the turkey AVF.

I am really sorry her stools are still loose. I used to have a cat over 10 yrs ago whose IBD was severe. I'd adopted her as a senior cat, aged around 14. (Her previous owner had died) I tried very hard to get her IBD under control with diet but could never quite manage it. She'd be OK for a few days and then have bad diarrhoea again. She couldn't have steroids as she had Diabetes Mellitus ( and steroids cause insulin resistance) . The only thing that helped was a course of antibiotics (Synulox) and then she was OK afterwards for about 6 weeks before the problems all started again. Understandably the vet was not keen to keep giving her repeat courses of antibiotics.

I didn't know that Carny makes a single protein horse recipe..are you sure it was that make? But actually it turns out horsemeat is not one of the best meats to feed a cat with any food sensitivities, I do feed it to one of my boys [who has food allergies causing dermatitis], as one of his 7 different foods. He likes it but I have had to cut back on how much I give him, because it's been giving him loose stools and flatulence. He has quite a robust digestion so I was surprised at how the horse-meat was affecting him. The makes of horsemeat I give him are Mjamjam and Venandi. I tried him with Hermanns but he didn't like it.

There are hydrolised protein diets, (e.g. Hills Z/D) and diets that are meat free (soya is the protein) - have you tried any of those for her?

Some owners have found their cats with intractable IBD have responded well to a raw diet. Is this something you might consider perhaps? There is a group on Facebook for raw feeding cats with IBD.


----------



## Laura 25

chillminx said:


> @Laura 25 - you are very welcome hun  Sorry she wouldn't eat the turkey AVF.
> 
> I am really sorry her stools are still loose. I used to have a cat over 10 yrs ago whose IBD was severe. I'd adopted her as a senior cat, aged around 14. (Her previous owner had died) I tried very hard to get her IBD under control with diet but could never quite manage it. She'd be OK for a few days and then have bad diarrhoea again. She couldn't have steroids as she had Diabetes Mellitus ( and steroids cause insulin resistance) . The only thing that helped was a course of antibiotics (Synulox) and then she was OK afterwards for about 6 weeks before the problems all started again. Understandably the vet was not keen to keep giving her repeat courses of antibiotics.
> 
> I didn't know that Carny makes a single protein horse recipe..are you sure it was that make? But actually it turns out horsemeat is not one of the best meats to feed a cat with any food sensitivities, I do feed it to one of my boys [who has food allergies causing dermatitis], as one of his 7 different foods. He likes it but I have had to cut back on how much I give him, because it's been giving him loose stools and flatulence. He has quite a robust digestion so I was surprised at how the horse-meat was affecting him. The makes of horsemeat I give him are Mjamjam and Venandi. I tried him with Hermanns but he didn't like it.
> 
> There are hydrolised protein diets, (e.g. Hills Z/D) and diets that are meat free (soya is the protein) - have you tried any of those for her?
> 
> Some owners have found their cats with intractable IBD have responded well to a raw diet. Is this something you might consider perhaps? There is a group on Facebook for raw feeding cats with IBD.


Apologies I think it was beef hearts. I did try kangaroo too but she wouldn't touch it.
The vet wants me to try the venison and pea Hills prescription stuff but I wasn't sure about that?
Generally her coat is in good condition and she still comes for cuddles and enjoys her food. She's calmed down with washing herself obsessively since her thyroid is under control which is good as hairballs were a problem.
Do you think I should try the hills diet?
She had a course of steroids that didn't work and the prebiotic powder you add to food. I'm going to talk to the vet on Tuesday about other options. I would try the raw diet but need to think about my other cat too as they are both 'grazers' and don't eat their food all at once. When she is being stubborn (and I mean not eating for days) about the food I think I'm stressing her out with not giving her what she likes to eat. I've ordered some of the food off amazon you suggested that is single protein. The vet says she's a very complexes feline! Yep! I would agree with that. Just wish I could find something that could settle her tummy a little.
Xx


----------



## chillminx

@Laura 25

I wouldn't let her go for days without eating a normal amount of food. If her appetite is not too good for just one day then I would let that go, but not for any longer than that. I would try to get her to eat anything tbh, rather than her be hungry and risk liver lipidosis, a nasty illness caused by a cat not eating.

Hearts are not a suitable food for a cat with a sensitive digestion because hearts cause loosening of the bowel. And beef is a fairly common feline food allergen so the Carny may have made her itch.

I wouldn't give a cat with her sensitivities a prebiotic, they can cause bowel discomfort and flatulence in cats. Probiotics are different, they are better tolerated, but even so I would start with only a tiny amount (a few grains) added to her food and increase up to half a capsule over the course of 4 to 5 weeks.

(Hopefully the vet did not give you Fortiflora probiotic as it is known for causing loose stools in food sensitive cats.)

Hills Z/D, which comes as a dry food as well as a tinned food, is usually the one advised for food allergies and intolerances, because it contains hydrolised protein which is better tolerated than normal protein.

I wouldn't personally bother with the Hills D/D (which btw, contains duck meal as well as venison) because the protein is not hydrolised and it unlikely to be any better for her than a single protein she has not eaten before. Also, Hills D/D is not popular with many cats who have tried it.

https://www.hillspet.co.uk/cat-food/pd-feline-prescription-diet-zd-low-allergen-dry

If you're going to try her on any of the prescription diets I'd go for the Hills Z/D. Preferably the wet version, if she will eat it.

Wth the Mjamjam and the Venandi I'd try her on the duck and the lamb (or mutton). My boy with diet-controlled dermatitis gets on very well with those. 

Maybe consider buying her and your other cat each a microchipped feeder so so they can browse on their food when they feel like it and know it is safe from being stolen by the other cat. There is a special offer on Sure Pet Care products atm, through Cats Protection.

Those feeders are worth every penny in a multicat household. I cannot imagine how I got by without them, before they were invented!

https://www.cats.org.uk/shop/other-ways-to-help/surepetcare


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## Laura 25

chillminx said:


> @Laura 25
> 
> I wouldn't let her go for days without eating a normal amount of food. If her appetite is not too good for just one day then I would let that go, but not for any longer than that. I would try to get her to eat anything tbh, rather than her be hungry and risk liver lipidosis, a nasty illness caused by a cat not eating.
> 
> Hearts are not a suitable food for a cat with a sensitive digestion because hearts cause loosening of the bowel. And beef is a fairly common feline food allergen so the Carny may have made her itch.
> 
> I wouldn't give a cat with her sensitivities a prebiotic, they can cause bowel discomfort and flatulence in cats. Probiotics are different, they are better tolerated, but even so I would start with only a tiny amount (a few grains) added to her food and increase up to half a capsule over the course of 4 to 5 weeks.
> 
> (Hopefully the vet did not give you Fortiflora probiotic as it is known for causing loose stools in food sensitive cats.)
> 
> Hills Z/D, which comes as a dry food as well as a tinned food, is usually the one advised for food allergies and intolerances, because it contains hydrolised protein which is better tolerated than normal protein.
> 
> I wouldn't personally bother with the Hills D/D (which btw, contains duck meal as well as venison) because the protein is not hydrolised and it unlikely to be any better for her than a single protein she has not eaten before. Also, Hills D/D is not popular with many cats who have tried it.
> 
> https://www.hillspet.co.uk/cat-food/pd-feline-prescription-diet-zd-low-allergen-dry
> 
> If you're going to try her on any of the prescription diets I'd go for the Hills Z/D. Preferably the wet version, if she will eat it.
> 
> Wth the Mjamjam and the Venandi I'd try her on the duck and the lamb (or mutton). My boy with diet-controlled dermatitis gets on very well with those.
> 
> Maybe consider buying her and your other cat each a microchipped feeder so so they can browse on their food when they feel like it and know it is safe from being stolen by the other cat. There is a special offer on Sure Pet Care products atm, through Cats Protection.
> 
> Those feeders are worth every penny in a multicat household. I cannot imagine how I got by without them, before they were invented!
> 
> https://www.cats.org.uk/shop/other-ways-to-help/surepetcare


My apologies it was a probiatic we tried. She's also had some stuff that is supposed to replace any important vitamins lost through diarrhoea but that didn't do much either. I don't think we have tried an antibiotic yet so I'll ask the vet about that on Tuesday. She has had every blood test possible to rule out other things it could be. The vet did mention doing biopsies etc but honestly I don't want to put her through that. 
She isn't chipped at the minute I know its silly but she's so tiny I was waiting until the next time she has to have some teeth cleaned to have it done. 
My amazon order with the new cat food should be here tomorrow so fingers crossed with that. It's just trying to find something that doesn't upset up tummy but she enjoys eating. 
Xx


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## chillminx

The 'chipped feeders can be used with a tag (supplied with the feeder) which fits to a normal safety snap release cat collar. If Tiger a senior indoors only she may be safe wearing a collar and tag, i.e. if she does not climb much it is unlikely to get caught in things. 

When you say she is "tiny" do you mean she is very underweight?


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## Laura 25

chillminx said:


> The 'chipped feeders can be used with a tag (supplied with the feeder) which fits to a normal safety snap release cat collar. If Tiger a senior indoors only she may be safe wearing a collar and tag, i.e. if she does not climb much it is unlikely to get caught in things.
> 
> When you say she is "tiny" do you mean she is very underweight?


Oh that's good then. She's not underweight at the minute, but she's slimmer than my other cat. She was the smallest of the litter and tiny compared to her brother x


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## nrbone1987

Hey everyone, 

I was wondering if I could ask you for advice again. I am still waiting for my Charlie's biopsy results and I'm running out of the Royal Canin gastrointestinal food that they gave me whilst waiting for the results. I asked my vet if I should buy a big box in bulk but on looking at the summary it seems this food should be used post surgery and isn't really meant for long term feeding. Does anyone know if that's the case? 

im now down a rabbit hole looking for hypoallergenic wet and dry foods, between my local stores, zoopla and pets at home. Does anyone have any recommendations for wet and dry foods? 

All 3 of my cats are now eating Charlie's Purina One Bifensis sensitive turkey and rice dry food. Is this hypoallergenic (I bought it thinking it was?) 

sorry for asking over the festive period but I have a very blazé vet who I feel like I'm now bugging with questions and I'm getting quite vague answers...! 

Thank you so much, and Merry Christmas 
Xxx


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## chillminx

@nrbone1987 - I know of a number of people who have fed their cats RC gastrointestinal wet food for long periods when the cats had digestive or bowel problems. If Charlie is doing OK with the food I would continue it for now.

The most effective hypoallergenic foods are those which contain hydrolised protein as the protein molecules have been broken down to a much smaller size and are less likely to cause an allergic reaction. The wet food containing hydrolised protein is Hills Z/D. Dry foods containing hydrolised protein are Hills Z/D and Purina HA, possibly one or two others.

I wouldn't bother with any of the other foods claiming to be hypoallergenic. My experience is they are either only partially effective for a while, or nor effective at all. The hydrolised protein diets have been shown to be effective in many cases of feline allergy (although not all cases).

An alternative would be to put Charlie on an elimination diet, which I believe I mentioned to you before. It would mean feeding a novel protein for 8 weeks and then reintroducng the common proteins as single proteins. Novel proteins are e.g. kangaroo, horse, goat, buffalo, reindeer.

You may like to have a read of my pinned thread on the topic of elimination diets :

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/


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## nrbone1987

Hey Chillminx,

thanks so much for your help I really appreciate it. I just ordered another batch of the RC gastro food as I don't want to change it just yet without his test results back. 

thanks for the info on hydrolysed proteins. That's what I was so confused about - that so many foods claim to be hypoallergenic but they have so many grains veg and meat in there, I was really confused. 

still awaiting his results and depending on what they say I will look to move him to Hills z/d or that Purina one long term. Fingers crossed no sickness for the last week. 

Thank you so much, happy new year everyone, 

nat x


----------



## Emlar

Melvin has gone in for her biopsy today... crossing all my fingers and toes that they discover what is causing her perpetual loose poops and that she returns to us unscathed!


----------



## jenny armour

Emlar said:


> Melvin has gone in for her biopsy today... crossing all my fingers and toes that they discover what is causing her perpetual loose poops and that she returns to us unscathed!


Fingers crossed for you and Melvin, I know what it is like


----------



## Emlar

Spoke to the vet. She has a majorly inflamed large intestine, poor thing. So he has biopsied that, her small intestine, and an enlarged lymphnode next to the intestine. 

Good news is though that she hasn't lost weight since he last saw her, which was a few months ago. He was quite surprised that she hadn't with the amount of inflammation he found!

Gonna collect her later and then an appointment in 10 days time to remove stitches and discuss results.

Poor thing. Makes me so glad we took her in from our neighbours, but so sad/angry that she might have been this way for years and they just never did anything


----------



## chillminx

Poor Melvin! I am glad you have a diagnosis for her, but as you say, it is such a pity your neighbour neglected her health badly for years. 

Thank goodness you took Melvin in. x


----------



## Emlar

Still waiting on further results from the biopsy.
The pathologist now think it might be 
Feline gastrointestinal eosinophilic sclerosing fibroplasia...!


----------



## chillminx

Emlar said:


> Still waiting on further results from the biopsy.
> The pathologist now think it might be
> Feline gastrointestinal eosinophilic sclerosing fibroplasia...!


Poor Melvin! If it is that I expect it is going to need managing with drugs. But can be controlled well enough to give a cat a fair quality of life in many cases I understand.


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## Emlar

chillminx said:


> Poor Melvin! If it is that I expect it is going to need managing with drugs. But can be controlled well enough to give a cat a fair quality of life in many cases I understand.


Yeah, the vet said in some cases they require surgery, but I think that's more if there is a blockage, which she doesnt have. Hopefully can be managed with antibiotics and steroids. The extra test results should be back by Monday...!

Were just glad it's not cancer, although we were pretty convinced it wasn't as she is so well otherwise.


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## Pepperpots

Have joined the IBD with Cash. He’s got a number of things going on at the moment, making him a miserable boy. Flare up of calicivirus and coronavirus, giardia and campylobacter. Only discovered anything was wrong because he had a bladder infection and kept eating grass to make himself sick.

He had an ultrasound because he had a heart murmur (which went under sedation), but he had thickened intestines and inflammation in his kidneys which was causing protein in his urine. He’s also been having constant periods of high temperatures.

Giardia treated and will be retested soon. Had Onsior for his temperatures but five day course just finished.

Put him on ZD hydrolysed wet and his energy levels improved but he had the most terrible squits. These went on Gastrointestinal food but he’s flat out refusing to eat it. Dry food makes him much worse. He was on raw, but he’s too high risk at picking up bugs and clearly it wasn’t working for him. Am trying him on Katkin (cooked, frozen subscription food) which seems ok so far, but we’ll see! His weepy eye isn’t as runny as it was.

At the moment we have no idea if he has a food allergy or it’s the viruses attacking him and causing his immune system to go completely haywire and attack his kidneys and intestines.

it’s been a horrible month and we’re still working on muddling through it all. He’s looking very skinny now, even though he’s always eaten plenty. He’s still doesn’t have much energy, but has a tiny spark back and doesn’t look as hunched up and miserable. He’s definitely not himself though. He’s only 4 and has had so much wrong with him already.

Going to be a long road with this little one. He’s not had steroids at this point as my vet is worried that he is a perfect storm for developing FIP and apparently studies in America has shown that although they help the inflammation, they can accelerate the disease.

On the plus side, the bladder infection has gone, protein in urine has gone back down to normal and bloods came back fine.

Just found my other cat has a swollen lymph node in his throat, which will be getting checked out. Hopefully he’s just fighting off one of the viruses Cash is shedding.

Not sure if my cats are trying to bankrupt me or kill me with stress!


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## Kev1

Not heard from me in a long while, but I must try my utmost, yrt again cat sick. Only sick three days go. Don't ask about the annual check-up at the vet.

She's a beautiful Ragdoll, that is 8 coming on 9 in July. She has always had colic and always been sick regularly. She's had a couple of run in's with bad vets, but we have now reverted to our original vet who seems to behave streets better than others.

1) Our breeder started her wet food on Bozita, but we eventually got her on to Royal Canin, she seems better on Hills though, and she is very fussy.
Occasionally we give her Applaws and Lilys. But the vet recommendation is Hills, though Lilys and everyone else believes theirs is better. We cop the food up small, we give her only a small amount. I really do welcome opinions but avoid wheat etc.
She will not clean her bum (who would), so getting a mess was her annual checkup. (She won't tolerate me near her), as Ragdoll's only7 bond to one. So the vet gave her Avocet, a booster, and a checkup. Within an hour of return, she was being sick or diarrhea every 10 minutes. By six PM we got back to the vet who gave her some stuff "to be taken with wet food". She wouldn't touch it. By 11.00 PM we took her back to the vet who gave her an injection to stop sickness/diarrhoea. The next day she cowered, wouldn't eat or drink. We think her throat was so sore she couldn't eat. Finally 48 hours after her first visit to the vet, she had a small drink.

I think I have tried everything.

2) those observant note a number at this para.
Ragdolls do not have leukemia jab as it can kill, according to the breeder.
Now i am wondering about Petplan, which we have always used. What if we didn't visit the vet unless it was crucial, now ignoring the annual checkup. This will make her life easier *but* the policy states annual checkups. Furthermore, we could use vet call out to minimalise her stress at the vet, but is it covered (call-out fees).
Incidentally, our vet trip was at 23.30 and had an emergency consult at £95.00, but totalled £174.00. Too much worry about costs.

Has anyone got any (more) info, perhaps they cxalled out the vet on petplan, and it was covered.?

this poor cat...

K


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## OrientalSlave

Annual checkups are essential, even if you don't have annual vaccine boosters. The vet will check all sorts of things including teeth.

I would put her on a temporary diet of cooked chicken - I think thighs are best, they are very easy to debone. Cats must NEVER have cooked bones. Hopefully her tummy will settle in a few days. If it does she might not produce any poo for a few days before starting to produce small well formed poo. Cook the thighs with a little water until the flesh falls off the bone - I find a couple hours in a casserole at 160C does the trick. If her poo doesn't normalise after a few days then she might have problems with chicken. 

I'm surprised you mention the breeder unless this is a rehomed cat.

It's a myth that Ragdolls only bond to 1 person. It sounds to me like she has had some sort of reaction to the booster.


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## Laura 25

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice. My cat, Tiger, is 15 and 1/2 now. She has hyperthyroidism, asthma and IBD (never officially diagnosed with biopsies but she's had every other test!) been to the vet today as she's not eating much at all (I did have her on the purina HA dry food and fish flavour of iaams - I have tried every other food I could think of but she's really picky and poultry seems to be a trigger for her IBD. She's on 1/2 tablet of predicare a day which keeps her IBD at bay.
The vet has given me some renel wet cat food to try. But I was also hoping for advice on some dry food as she's always had both. Thank you in advance,

Laura


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## huckybuck

Laura 25 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm looking for some advice. My cat, Tiger, is 15 and 1/2 now. She has hyperthyroidism, asthma and IBD (never officially diagnosed with biopsies but she's had every other test!) been to the vet today as she's not eating much at all (I did have her on the purina HA dry food and fish flavour of iaams - I have tried every other food I could think of but she's really picky and poultry seems to be a trigger for her IBD. She's on 1/2 tablet of predicare a day which keeps her IBD at bay.
> The vet has given me some renel wet cat food to try. But I was also hoping for advice on some dry food as she's always had both. Thank you in advance,
> 
> Laura


Sorry I have only just looked at this thread - I hope she's doing ok.

I was going to suggest trying Virbac HPM digestive.

It did the trick for my boy and has the highest meat content I could find for veterinary dry diets.


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## Caroline Linton

I was wondering if anyone could give some advice on my 13yr old house cat. He had 2 back teeth removed a couple of months ago and since then hes been poorly. I think he recovered from the sedation / removal of teeth. Hes quite a big cat, weighed 8.8kg at the time. Since then hes had really bad diarreah, losing weight and not quite himself. After many blood tests and steroid inj that lasted 7 days, then a steroid inj last week that should last 3-4wks. I have changed his diet to gastro intestinal food even though hes fussy and stubburn!. The vet suspected pancreitus (sp?) Bloods came back as white cells lower than normal. Vet sent bloods away to the lab to double check and the white cells wasnt as bad as they thought. They then said that they are pretty sure its IBD and said to continue on the gastro diet along with the 3-4wk steroid inj and hope we can see some improvement. Vet also prescribed promax which sort of helped for a few days. Hes now back to watery stools and now weighs 6.35kg. I dont know what else to do as hes so precious to us (no children so he gets spoilt) do any of you have any suggestions on what else i can try? When looking for promax, i found gimcat gastro intestinal paste (3x 50g tubes for £9.99) which is alot cheaper, does anyone know if that works just aswell as the promax does? Thanks for any input you can give me


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> I was wondering if anyone could give some advice on my 13yr old house cat. He had 2 back teeth removed a couple of months ago and since then hes been poorly. I think he recovered from the sedation / removal of teeth. Hes quite a big cat, weighed 8.8kg at the time. Since then hes had really bad diarreah, losing weight and not quite himself. After many blood tests and steroid inj that lasted 7 days, then a steroid inj last week that should last 3-4wks. I have changed his diet to gastro intestinal food even though hes fussy and stubburn!. The vet suspected pancreitus (sp?) Bloods came back as white cells lower than normal. Vet sent bloods away to the lab to double check and the white cells wasnt as bad as they thought. They then said that they are pretty sure its IBD and said to continue on the gastro diet along with the 3-4wk steroid inj and hope we can see some improvement. Vet also prescribed promax which sort of helped for a few days. Hes now back to watery stools and now weighs 6.35kg. I dont know what else to do as hes so precious to us (no children so he gets spoilt) do any of you have any suggestions on what else i can try? When looking for promax, i found gimcat gastro intestinal paste (3x 50g tubes for £9.99) which is alot cheaper, does anyone know if that works just aswell as the promax does? Thanks for any input you can give me


Hi Caroline, to cut a long story short i typed it once and it disappeared, but my cat JJ was diagnosed with Pancreatitis after months of xrays and scans, he was on a high meat diet which helped at first but then the diarrhea came back, so he was scanned again at Christmas and a biopsy was taken, the result was he was diagnosed with Gastro intestinal lymphoma. I now currently have him on a raw diet which seems to suit him and he has one half of a steroid tablet daily. Please dont think your boy as the same thing as JJ, but I would ask for a second opinion if you're not happy


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Hi Caroline, to cut a long story short i typed it once and it disappeared, but my cat JJ was diagnosed with Pancreatitis after months of xrays and scans, he was on a high meat diet which helped at first but then the diarrhea came back, so he was scanned again at Christmas and a biopsy was taken, the result was he was diagnosed with Gastro intestinal lymphoma. I now currently have him on a raw diet which seems to suit him and he has one half of a steroid tablet daily. Please dont think your boy as the same thing as JJ, but I would ask for a second opinion if you're not happy


Thanks for your reply Jenny. I will be calling the vets on monday as i feel he should be feeling a little bit better with the steroid. The 1st steroid maybe been a fluke and temp fixed him for a couple of days. Its hard to know what to do for the best. One good thing is that he drinks well, pity i cant get him to eat alot of his gastro diet. If only he could understand that im trying to help him. Right now he knows where the tuna is and is currently staring at the cupboard door


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## Caroline Linton

I must admit that i have been looking at dif food available for him. Its so confusing and conflicting. Vet said a prescribed diet but its hard finding one that suits him and giving enough time to let it work or waiting then trying a dif one. I think i could open a shop just for his food


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> I must admit that i have been looking at dif food available for him. Its so confusing and conflicting. Vet said a prescribed diet but its hard finding one that suits him and giving enough time to let it work or waiting then trying a dif one. I think i could open a shop just for his food


I think JJ ate initially Hills ID which he liked, but the vet didnt think he should eat it, but it did harden his poo up. I dont always listen to the vet, because if he likes it and its helping, then go for it. I was recommended by a couple of girls on here, Animonda Von Feinsten Pure Turkey or Macs Mono sensitive pure Turkey both from Zooplus both high meat. He also eats Hills ZD. What works for one cat wont always suit another. I'm lucky in a way as _ have 8 cats to hep me out and if they dont eat it, the dogs will_


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> I think JJ ate initially Hills ID which he liked, but the vet didnt think he should eat it, but it did harden his poo up. I dont always listen to the vet, because if he likes it and its helping, then go for it. I was recommended by a couple of girls on here, Animonda Von Feinsten Pure Turkey or Macs Mono sensitive pure Turkey both from Zooplus both high meat. He also eats Hills ZD. What works for one cat wont always suit another. I'm lucky in a way as _ have 8 cats to hep me out and if they dont eat it, the dogs will_


Miller is currently on hills ID, must say that he gets fed up quickly. Currently eaten half a box but now wont touch it. I also have purina gastro intestinal EN but the worst thing is the choices of flavours. Chicken or salmon, he stops eating them aswell. Im not sure if its the lack of choice of flavours or just doesnt want it? Never had such a fussy cat, doesnt even touch our food apart from tuna which i try to avoid or use only in emergencies. he used to eat only purina gourmet (mainly the ocean flavours) since he was a year old, now 13yrs so i presume its not an allergy, i had to take him off of that incase that made the symptoms flare up or even allergies. Purina are testing the food pouches for me just to be on the safe side, which i thought was very kind of them. I havent heard of the other food you mentioned but i love the zooplus and petplanet websites, plenty of bargains and choice on there.


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## Caroline Linton

I have just ordered a few dif foods from zooplus, i think i will donate all the other food miller wont eat, at present he has 3 cupboards full of food going to waste. Thanks Jenny for all of your help. Miller and myself really appreciate it


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## jenny armour

We are here to help.

I also have a ragdoll with unconfirmed IBS, he gets bored with the food and wants everyone elses including mine, have known him to pinch my porridge while its cooking. I thought it was because some of this food can be bland, but he is already getting fed up with the raw. He's 14 as well


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> We are here to help.
> 
> I also have a ragdoll with unconfirmed IBS, he gets bored with the food and wants everyone elses including mine, have known him to pinch my porridge while its cooking. I thought it was because some of this food can be bland, but he is already getting fed up with the raw. He's 14 as well


I didnt realise how common it was until i started reading posts on here. I suppose i have been very lucky with previous cats not being ill. Its kinda ironic that my husband and myself was only saying a few months ago that apart from check ups and getting miller neutured we havent spent much at the vets over the years. Miller must of heard us say that lol and thought i will show you two . It must be hard with all of your pets knowing who gets what food with their ailments


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> I didnt realise how common it was until i started reading posts on here. I suppose i have been very lucky with previous cats not being ill. Its kinda ironic that my husband and myself was only saying a few months ago that apart from check ups and getting miller neutured we havent spent much at the vets over the years. Miller must of heard us say that lol and thought i will show you two . It must be hard with all of your pets knowing who gets what food with their ailments


Never underestimate a cat, I'm sure they know everything you say. Yes I have 3 with intestinal problems and not all foods suit all 3 cats, and I have my beloved Harry who has renal failure, he has had it since Nov 18, but....I'm not saying anything in case he hears lol


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## Emlar

Mine was ill for a long time and vets struggled to diagnose. Steroids, etc made no difference. Tried lots of different foods. We now have her on raw from Luna and Me and she is doing so much better. Put weight on, lots of energy, more solid poops. Its so hard because you just have to find what suits your cat.


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## jenny armour

Emlar said:


> Mine was ill for a long time and vets struggled to diagnose. Steroids, etc made no difference. Tried lots of different foods. We now have her on raw from Luna and Me and she is doing so much better. Put weight on, lots of energy, more solid poops. Its so hard because you just have to find what suits your cat.


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## jenny armour

My trouble with my ragdoll Oliver is I think he isnt keen on the bones in raw food, I will have to look at Luna and me


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Never underestimate a cat, I'm sure they know everything you say. Yes I have 3 with intestinal problems and not all foods suit all 3 cats, and I have my beloved Harry who has renal failure, he has had it since Nov 18, but....I'm not saying anything in case he hears lol


Omg, you must be very busy finding the appropriate food for each of them. That must be stressfull at times but aslong as you have a system and the fur family are well looked after, thats all that matters.


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Mine was ill for a long time and vets struggled to diagnose. Steroids, etc made no difference. Tried lots of different foods. We now have her on raw from Luna and Me and she is doing so much better. Put weight on, lots of energy, more solid poops. Its so hard because you just have to find what suits your cat.


I was looking at luna and me yesterday. I have ordered a starter box, just hope fussy chops eats this. Yeah defo hard to find what suits, my cat eats the 1st box of food, so i buy a couple more to keep him going. Its like he sees the stock of food and then decides he doesnt like it lol honestly hes very trying:Joyful. I just wish i could find the food that suits him so that his toilet probs improve and he can start putting some weight back on.


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Omg, you must be very busy finding the appropriate food for each of them. That must be stressfull at times but aslong as you have a system and the fur family are well looked after, thats all that matters.


Definitely busy in this house, three of them are also on medication, and I also have to remember not to leave anything re: food that they they mustnt eat. Also in the process of moving so am packing as well. Just got up thinking it was Monday only to find it was Sunday lol



Caroline Linton said:


> I was looking at luna and me yesterday. I have ordered a starter box, just hope fussy chops eats this. Yeah defo hard to find what suits, my cat eats the 1st box of food, so i buy a couple more to keep him going. Its like he sees the stock of food and then decides he doesnt like it lol honestly hes very trying:Joyful. I just wish i could find the food that suits him so that his toilet probs improve and he can start putting some weight back on.


I may try Luna and me as well, let us know how you get on


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Definitely busy in this house, three of them are also on medication, and I also have to remember not to leave anything re: food that they they mustnt eat. Also in the process of moving so am packing as well. Just got up thinking it was Monday only to find it was Sunday lol
> 
> I may try Luna and me as well, let us know how you get on


Isnt it great to find out its still the weekend not monday. After a unexpected drinking session with girls from work yesterdat, miller has decided to not eat any of the food i have. So there was me with a hangover at 9am this morning steaming fresh chicken in water which sounds really boring to me but he scoffed the lot! Prob not the best nutrients for him but atleast i can say its bland haha. The things we do for our fur babies. I was looking at cat gravy recipes that i can try for him aswell. It seems that no matter what i buy, he only wants food in gravy or some kind of sauce. So i have yet another box of cat food he wont eat. Good luck with the move, moving is stressfull enough without worrying about the dogs and cats. Hope its a smooth event for you all. Yes i will let you know how i get on with luna and me. I really hope he likes it as im running out of ideas for his IBD. I have found that he really likes the miamor multi vitamin cream from zoo plus, i have another 3 packs ordered which will prob mean that he will not eat this again lol. Also tried smilla veterinary diet in chkn flavour, no chance hes eating that either. So frustrating! i feel your pain with making sure nothing is in their reach, i have to make sure theres no carrier bags, food bags, hair bobbles or any other kind of plastic laying around as miller loves to eat plastic! Atleast i know he wont eat any food laying around, its like he knows its wrong and does it. I can tell him off or ignore him and he will look at me while trying to lick a carrier bag as he knows he will get attention. Only eats them if no one is around. He is defo one of a kind, i just dont know where he gets the mischief from. The funny side of him is that he will meow at me, my hubby and father inlaw when he wants us all to go to bed so that he can have the front room all to himself, and vice versa in the morning bcos he wants the beds to himself. He has trained us all so well over the last 13 years. Hes too spoilt haha:Shamefullyembarrased


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Isnt it great to find out its still the weekend not monday. After a unexpected drinking session with girls from work yesterdat, miller has decided to not eat any of the food i have. So there was me with a hangover at 9am this morning steaming fresh chicken in water which sounds really boring to me but he scoffed the lot! Prob not the best nutrients for him but atleast i can say its bland haha. The things we do for our fur babies. I was looking at cat gravy recipes that i can try for him aswell. It seems that no matter what i buy, he only wants food in gravy or some kind of sauce. So i have yet another box of cat food he wont eat. Good luck with the move, moving is stressfull enough without worrying about the dogs and cats. Hope its a smooth event for you all. Yes i will let you know how i get on with luna and me. I really hope he likes it as im running out of ideas for his IBD. I have found that he really likes the miamor multi vitamin cream from zoo plus, i have another 3 packs ordered which will prob mean that he will not eat this again lol. Also tried smilla veterinary diet in chkn flavour, no chance hes eating that either. So frustrating! i feel your pain with making sure nothing is in their reach, i have to make sure theres no carrier bags, food bags, hair bobbles or any other kind of plastic laying around as miller loves to eat plastic! Atleast i know he wont ea, Zoo t any food laying around, its like he knows its wrong and does it. I can tell him off or ignore him and he will look at me while trying to lick a carrier bag as he knows he will get attention. Only eats them if no one is around. He is defo one of a kind, i just dont know where he gets the mischief from. :Shamefullyembarrased[/QUOTE
> 
> Fortunately for me I'm retired so one day is the same another lol but I was expecting my plumber and a lady was going to give me some boxes on Monday morning and I was dashing around and didnt need to. I have ordered some of the food that they have been on this morning so sticking with that for the time being. Have you tried Felini? its a powder that you mix with ordinary meat, so that you cat is getting nutrients that just ordinary food wont give him. You could always see if anyone on hear wants to swap with the food that Miller isnt eating. Yes JJ my Nfc loves to lick plastic bags. Moving hopefully will be fine as long as I can get past my buyers' solicitors they're a real pain. Also one of my cats is a feral so will have to try and trap him days before moving. Oh joy


----------



## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> I was looking at luna and me yesterday. I have ordered a starter box, just hope fussy chops eats this. Yeah defo hard to find what suits, my cat eats the 1st box of food, so i buy a couple more to keep him going. Its like he sees the stock of food and then decides he doesnt like it lol honestly hes very trying:Joyful. I just wish i could find the food that suits him so that his toilet probs improve and he can start putting some weight back on.


Fingers crossed it works and he will eat it! Melvin wolfs it down and it comes in 4 flavours which seems to keep her interested enough. Shes not bothered by the treats though but that's okay, she doesnt need treats  I think Melvin is only supposed to have 1 pattie a day, but she usually has 1 and a half to 2 patties depending on how hungry she is. We feed her half at a time. Shes been so skinny for so long we are happy to give her as much as she wants at the moment!


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Fingers crossed it works and he will eat it! Melvin wolfs it down and it comes in 4 flavours which seems to keep her interested enough. Shes not bothered by the treats though but that's okay, she doesnt need treats  I think Melvin is only supposed to have 1 pattie a day, but she usually has 1 and a half to 2 patties depending on how hungry she is. We feed her half at a time. Shes been so skinny for so long we are happy to give her as much as she wants at the moment!


I hope so. Am excited to try something new asling as he eats it. I will post how it goes, sounds more appealing than just 1 or 2 flavours. Hope Melvin continues to do well and put weight on


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## Caroline Linton

Oh dear catching the feral one sounds like fun. Will that cat settle at your new home? You defo have your hands full there. No i havent tried felini but i ordered 2 x 30 sachets of fortiflora which is a feline probiotic. Hes not even interested with it. I took most of the unwanted food to sspca but if you or anyone else on here wants the sachets, i will gladly post them out. I dont want a swap or anything, i would rather someone got use out of them rather than sitting in a cupboard


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## Caroline Linton

Does anyone want any of these? 1 box unopened and sealed with 30 in it, the other box has 23 left in the box


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## jenny armour

Sorry I have got fortiflora and although mine will eat it I feel it doesnt work. My feral I do hope he settles, he's got to stay in for about 3-4 weeks, I hope the part of the garden will get fenced in asap, as I have indoor cats, so he will have to live with them, but he gets on very well with both my cats and dogs, but you usually ferals do, they have more trust in other animals than humans


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## Caroline Linton

I ended up mixing it up and syringing it into him but i also thought it didnt do much. Im sure feral cat will be just fine. I dont blaim him for trusting animals rather than humans, dont get me wrong theres alot of good people about. Good luck with catching him, that will be testing your patience


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## jenny armour

Its taken a few days before to trap for the vet, but I dont have that sort of time this time. If I dont get him this time, I wont be able to come back for him I have asked one of my neighbours if they will feed him, but I want him with me, anyway he will miss his mum, they are very close



Caroline Linton said:


> I ended up mixing it up and syringing it into him but i also thought it didnt do much. Im sure feral cat will be just fine. I dont blaim him for trusting animals rather than humans, dont get me wrong theres alot of good people about. Good luck with catching him, that will be testing your patience


----------



## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Its taken a few days before to trap for the vet, but I dont have that sort of time this time. If I dont get him this time, I wont be able to come back for him I have asked one of my neighbours if they will feed him, but I want him with me, anyway he will miss his mum, they are very close


Aww, i hope you get him before you move. Hes part of your family. Let me know how you get on with catching him


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Aww, i hope you get him before you move. Hes part of your family. Let me know how you get on with catching him


I will do


----------



## Caroline Linton

So Millers belly calmed down and like the weirdo i am watching the cat tray everytime he went, i got excited with a normal poop for 1 day. I decided to keep him on kitten food in gravy and the occassional 3 days of promax if needed. So i went shopping making sure i had enough food for him. All was going well until this morning, he was constantly wanting his belly rubbed which he only seems to do when he has a sore belly. I was hoping it was just a coincidence but nope, hes got loose stools again. Am so frustrated and i feel so sorry for him. Im hoping it will be back to normal again soon. When will this nightmare end? :Sour


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## Caroline Linton

I ended cancelling the raw food as i had a change of heart with changing the type of food again. Been trying gastro / sensitive / kitten food


----------



## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> So Millers belly calmed down and like the weirdo i am watching the cat tray everytime he went, i got excited with a normal poop for 1 day. I decided to keep him on kitten food in gravy and the occassional 3 days of promax if needed. So i went shopping making sure i had enough food for him. All was going well until this morning, he was constantly wanting his belly rubbed which he only seems to do when he has a sore belly. I was hoping it was just a coincidence but nope, hes got loose stools again. Am so frustrated and i feel so sorry for him. Im hoping it will be back to normal again soon. When will this nightmare end? :Sour


Funnily enough, I was only thinking of you today, and how you got on with Miller and his Luna and me. I am still on the raw chicken which JJ and Oliver like, but alot gets left and they get fed up with it so I give it to Harry my renal boy, he eats most food. I was wondering about trying Luna and me for JJ and Oliver because dont they do different flavours? They actually prefer their food cooked, well they prefer my cooked chicken should I say. Also Oliver had something stuck in his mouth or his teeth and I think it may have been bone. Fortunately it was gone by this morning


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Funnily enough, I was only thinking of you today, and how you got on with Miller and his Luna and me. I am still on the raw chicken which JJ and Oliver like, but alot gets left and they get fed up with it so I give it to Harry my renal boy, he eats most food. I was wondering about trying Luna and me for JJ and Oliver because dont they do different flavours? They actually prefer their food cooked, well they prefer my cooked chicken should I say. Also Oliver had something stuck in his mouth or his teeth and I think it may have been bone. Fortunately it was gone by this morning


I meant to ask yesterday how you was getting on with catching your boy. Miller really enjoys the chicken out of the chinese take away chicken balls, maybe i should have chinese every night haha. Oh dear, glad the suspected bone / food has gone. Oliver must be glad. Yes, luna and me have different flavours, which is handy with fussy eaters. Just opened the last promax which lasts 3 days. Was thinking of trying pro kolin advanced instead to see if that helps. The gimcat gastro intestinal paste didnt seem to do anything for him. I think i should start investing in a cat food / bowel medicine company lol OH thinks i have an obession with buying them


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## Emlar

jenny armour said:


> Funnily enough, I was only thinking of you today, and how you got on with Miller and his Luna and me. I am still on the raw chicken which JJ and Oliver like, but alot gets left and they get fed up with it so I give it to Harry my renal boy, he eats most food. I was wondering about trying Luna and me for JJ and Oliver because dont they do different flavours? They actually prefer their food cooked, well they prefer my cooked chicken should I say. Also Oliver had something stuck in his mouth or his teeth and I think it may have been bone. Fortunately it was gone by this morning


Yes, luna and me do 4 different flavours which seems to keep our cat Melvin happy so far. She preferred pate type food before we fed her raw and she enjoys this food so I think its all ground down pretty well.


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> I meant to ask yesterday how you was getting on with catching your boy. Miller really enjoys the chicken out of the chinese take away chicken balls, maybe i should have chinese every night haha. Oh dear, glad the suspected bone / food has gone. Oliver must be glad. Yes, luna and me have different flavours, which is handy with fussy eaters. Just opened the last promax which lasts 3 days. Was thinking of trying pro kolin advanced instead to see if that helps. The gimcat gastro intestinal paste didnt seem to do anything for him. I think i should start investing in a cat food / bowel medicine company lol OH thinks i have an obession with buying them


Not done the catching yet, as I havent got a moving date, but fingers crossed when I do. I usually Vet UK's prokolin as its cheaper, but I also ordered the Prokolin advanced once I have finished this Vet uk one, will let you know how I do. Never tried promax tho. I know what you jmean about investing, the different foods I have to have because of having so many cats and 3 with intestinals problems all more or less different.



Emlar said:


> Yes, luna and me do 4 different flavours which seems to keep our cat Melvin happy so far. She preferred pate type food before we fed her raw and she enjoys this food so I think its all ground down pretty well.


Didnt the pate food make him runny?


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Not done the catching yet, as I havent got a moving date, but fingers crossed when I do. I usually Vet UK's prokolin as its cheaper, but I also ordered the Prokolin advanced once I have finished this Vet uk one, will let you know how I do. Never tried promax tho. I know what you jmean about investing, the different foods I have to have because of having so many cats and 3 with intestinals problems all more or less different.
> 
> I have every faith that you will catch him in time. Well, so far so good. The prokolin seems to be working. Promax is the one that vets supplied me with, with a dearer price tag! Having that many diet issues must be confusing at times. If only one food would work, would be much easier lol. I will look at the vet uk one, always after a bargain at the rate we go thru this stuff. I was thinking a tablet would be easier, Miller is getting wise to the syringue, hes spitting some out and fighting with me in a non vicious way. The little darling! Dare i say it, he hasnt lost any weight this week....


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## Emlar

jenny armour said:


> Didnt the pate food make him runny?


All and any food made her runny. She never had a solid poop until we started the raw food.


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## jenny armour

Hope it works, the Vet Uk is a bit runnier though.



Emlar said:


> All and any food made her runny. She never had a solid poop until we started the raw food.


I noticed Nelly's poo was solid today, she did have some raw yesterday and this morning so not sure if it was that or not


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Hope it works, the Vet Uk is a bit runnier though.
> 
> How do you manage to get them to take it? At first it was easy as miller would sit there and let me give him it with the syringe type applicator. Now its getting harder for him to take. Puts up a fight, when i eventually get it into his mouth its almost like hes spitting it out. Ive heard many reviews saying their cat likes the taste etc and will lick it out of a bowl. Unless its Mr Fussy being twisted with me as i cant get him to take it without knackaring us both out. The prokolin is 2x daily unlike promax which was once a day


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## Caroline Linton

I noticed Nelly's poo was solid today, she did have some raw yesterday and this morning so not sure if it was that or not[/QUOTE]
Either way thats good news! We could start our own show...the poo hunters haha


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## Caroline Linton

Am i doing something wrong with these posts? Do you hit reply or quote? Mine are coming out different


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## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> Am i doing something wrong with these posts? Do you hit reply or quote? Mine are coming out different


Hit reply and it quotes the post you are replying to.


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## jenny armour

Emlar said:


> Hit reply and it quotes the post you are replying to.


Yes I noticed that too. I dont know if its me but I thought I was doing the right thing.

Anyway, hope its better now. One of my main problems with Nellie is she stopped using a litter tray about two years ago, so I have to keep her in the conservatory most of the times especially at night. I am assuming its because of the IBS/Colitis problems She also started pulling her fur out at the base of her tail about same time. I'm inclined to scruff her when I give her the Prokolin as she hates it, I try and put the nozzle as far to the back of her mouth as I can and less likely to dribble it out again


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Yes I noticed that too. I dont know if its me but I thought I was doing the right thing.
> 
> Anyway, hope its better now. One of my main problems with Nellie is she stopped using a litter tray about two years ago, so I have to keep her in the conservatory most of the times especially at night. I am assuming its because of the IBS/Colitis problems She also started pulling her fur out at the base of her tail about same time. I'm inclined to scruff her when I give her the Prokolin as she hates it, I try and put the nozzle as far to the back of her mouth as I can and less likely to dribble it out again


Yeah miller is the same. Since june when he got 2 teeth out and the IBD symptoms started, he uses the tray for urine and will not use tray for poop. Frustrating but that seems to be one of the symptoms of IBD. I currently have 2 puppy pads infront of his tray and he is fairly happy to use that for poop. Much easier than using the carpet, and i dont have to shampoo them constantly.


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Hit reply and it quotes the post you are replying to.


It seemed to work there lol was using my tablet, now on my phone. Maybe thats why its different? Anyway lol thanl you both


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## Caroline Linton

Maybe a daft question, but since miller has been having IBD issues his whiskers seem brittle and have sort of snapped off half way. Some have a singed edge to them, some are half the legth as usual, some are normal. Im not sure if its connected / old age / a coincidence /deficiency. I cant say that i noticed until now


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Yeah miller is the same. Since june when he got 2 teeth out and the IBD symptoms started, he uses the tray for urine and will not use tray for poop. Frustrating but that seems to be one of the symptoms of IBD. I currently have 2 puppy pads infront of his tray and he is fairly happy to use that for poop. Much easier than using the carpet, and i dont have to shampoo them constantly.


I've been hitting quote ever since I've been on here lol, now this reply. I wonder what it was about having teeth extractions that started his IBD? Had a look at Nellie's whiskas, they look ok. Yes Nellie urinates in the tray, occasionally on the floor, and floor for pooing. In this house I have nearly all hard flooring downstairs, but where I move to it is nearly all carpeted, except for bathroom and kitchen, and not sure if I can afford to change the flooring when I first move, but could try the puppy pads. She also has to share the tray with my other cats. How are you getting on with the new Prokolin advance?


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> I've been hitting quote ever since I've been on here lol, now this reply. I wonder what it was about having teeth extractions that started his IBD? Had a look at Nellie's whiskas, they look ok. Yes Nellie urinates in the tray, occasionally on the floor, and floor for pooing. In this house I have nearly all hard flooring downstairs, but where I move to it is nearly all carpeted, except for bathroom and kitchen, and not sure if I can afford to change the flooring when I first move, but could try the puppy pads. She also has to share the tray with my other cats. How are you getting on with the new Prokolin advance?


Haha sorry for asking the question about replying lol. Well, prokolin did a good job! Miller went off every food i could buy. Was panic buying anything he would eat, which turns out to be whiskas 11+ yrs chunks in jelly. Not the best diet for him but its better than not eating anything. Day 1 of whiskas so hopefully his belly will calm down with the new food . Hes meowing as we speak for more. Prokolin is defo better than the other 2 pastes i have been buying and spending £30 a week on just promax from the vet. Thanks for checking Nellies whiskas, maybe its something i havent really looked at since being unwell i think i have noticed everything. I feel your frustration with having carpets. The best investment i did was buy a vax for pets. I use it every other day whilst Miller has been ill. Puppy pads are so handy too. Bag of 100 of them from pound stretchers for £12. Im not sure about the teeth and IBD as i honestly thought he had an infection from the 2 back teeth, but vet said no. He thought it was pancreitis but changed his mind to IBD. I wanted to take him to a different vet but due to backlog with vets and covid, i cant join another vets right now. So frustrating not being able to help or solve the mystery.


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## Caroline Linton

Lol Jenny this is my latest waste of money for Miller. Still have some gourmet in the cupboard that im waiting on test results from purina just incase it was the food. Either i need to adopt more cats or hubby will need to hide my bank card. I can see a donation to sspca again if he doesnt show any interest in it


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## Emlar

jenny armour said:


> I've been hitting quote ever since I've been on here lol, now this reply. I wonder what it was about having teeth extractions that started his IBD? Had a look at Nellie's whiskas, they look ok. Yes Nellie urinates in the tray, occasionally on the floor, and floor for pooing. In this house I have nearly all hard flooring downstairs, but where I move to it is nearly all carpeted, except for bathroom and kitchen, and not sure if I can afford to change the flooring when I first move, but could try the puppy pads. She also has to share the tray with my other cats. How are you getting on with the new Prokolin advance?


Do you have space for another litter tray? Generally cats don't like to share, especially if they are unwell.


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Do you have space for another litter tray? Generally cats don't like to share, especially if they are unwell.


Ive heard that about cats wanting more than 1 litter tray


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Haha sorry for asking the question about replying lol. Well, prokolin did a good job! Miller went off every food i could buy. Was panic buying anything he would eat, which turns out to be whiskas 11+ yrs chunks in jelly. Not the best diet for him but its better than not eating anything. Day 1 of whiskas so hopefully his belly will calm down with the new food . Hes meowing as we speak for more. Prokolin is defo better than the other 2 pastes i have been buying and spending £30 a week on just promax from the vet. Thanks for checking Nellies whiskas, maybe its something i havent really looked at since being unwell i think i have noticed everything. I feel your frustration with having carpets. The best investment i did was buy a vax for pets. I use it every other day whilst Miller has been ill. Puppy pads are so handy too. Bag of 100 of them from pound stretchers for £12. Im not sure about the teeth and IBD as i honestly thought he had an infection from the 2 back teeth, but vet said no. He thought it was pancreitis but changed his mind to IBD. I wanted to take him to a different vet but due to backlog with vets and covid, i cant join another vets right now. So frustrating not being able to help or solve the mystery.


Have started Nellie on the Prokolin Advance on Sunday but so far no different. I think as they get older anything will upset their systems and maybe the teeth op has upset him. Like my Harry, although a bit younger, in 2018 was just coming up for 9 needed a dental, and poor baby had to have 7 teeth out including one of his canines. I had terrible trouble getting him to eat, it took months of tablets to help him with his appetite and on top of that the vet diagnosed him with CRK early stages, so we tried the renal food. In the end I decided he could eat what we wanted. Now he has a great appetite eats what he wants, and he is on a medication that is helping him alot.  What I am saying is these dentals can really stress a cat out


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Have started Nellie on the Prokolin Advance on Sunday but so far no different. I think as they get older anything will upset their systems and maybe the teeth op has upset him. Like my Harry, although a bit younger, in 2018 was just coming up for 9 needed a dental, and poor baby had to have 7 teeth out including one of his canines. I had terrible trouble getting him to eat, it took months of tablets to help him with his appetite and on top of that the vet diagnosed him with CRK early stages, so we tried the renal food. In the end I decided he could eat what we wanted. Now he has a great appetite eats what he wants, and he is on a medication that is helping him alot. What I am saying is these dentals can really stress a cat out


Its true what your saying. I firmly believe the removal of teeth started his issues but vet dismissed me. At the end of the day i know Miller inside and out and i stand by that. I dont blaim anyone as the 2 teeth were badly infected by the time i could finally get him booked in and needed removed. He didnt get antibiotics which i was kind of expecting him to have but had loxicom for post operative pain and inflamation. Just annoyed i was dismissed so quickly. Wether its dental / IBD/ any other health probs he may have, i will do my hardest to help him like most would do for their fur babies. Vet told me that cats hide their pain and illness, i disagree with that as he started behaving differently and i noticed straight away once he was in pain. The way i see it Jenny, if harry is content eating what he wants and has meds to help him live a normal life, theres nothing wrong with that. You know him best, although i would usually follow vets advice. Harry is happy and enjoying his life and not suffering so thats good news


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Its true what your saying. I firmly believe the removal of teeth started his issues but vet dismissed me. At the end of the day i know Miller inside and out and i stand by that. I dont blaim anyone as the 2 teeth were badly infected by the time i could finally get him booked in and needed removed. He didnt get antibiotics which i was kind of expecting him to have but had loxicom for post operative pain and inflamation. Just annoyed i was dismissed so quickly. Wether its dental / IBD/ any other health probs he may have, i will do my hardest to help him like most would do for their fur babies. Vet told me that cats hide their pain and illness, i disagree with that as he started behaving differently and i noticed straight away once he was in pain. The way i see it Jenny, if harry is content eating what he wants and has meds to help him live a normal life, theres nothing wrong with that. You know him best, although i would usually follow vets advice. Harry is happy and enjoying his life and not suffering so thats good news


What the vet seems to have forgotten, is the vet has to rely on you to tell him what is wrong and the symptoms your cat has, after all the cat cant tell him. The times I have taken one of my cats up the vets saying there was something wrong and its been dismissed as nothing because they cant find anything wrong, and have had to take them back up a few days later when the symptoms have appeared more prominently. One time they didnt charge me because I wasnt believed first time. Update on Prokolin advance, still hasnt worked so probably go back to the normal one


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> What the vet seems to have forgotten, is the vet has to rely on you to tell him what is wrong and the symptoms your cat has, after all the cat cant tell him. The times I have taken one of my cats up the vets saying there was something wrong and its been dismissed as nothing because they cant find anything wrong, and have had to take them back up a few days later when the symptoms have appeared more prominently. One time they didnt charge me because I wasnt believed first time. Update on Prokolin advance, still hasnt worked so probably go back to the normal one


Oh no! was really hoping prokolin would help. Maybe just stick to what you know will help / helped in the past? Im not sure if its the food or prokolin that has helped. Normal poops today! I dread what i will wake up to tomorrow. Now Miller has finished a whole box of whiskas, im scared to buy more imcase he decides to change his mind. He hates food in jely but scoffed whiskas in jelly. Sometimes i just dont get the reasoning with him lol. Just likes me spending money on things that are useless haha. Have you got a moving date yet? I get that it must be hard trying to understand whats wrong with our pets but i dont think we should be ignored, or atleast seem to be. Good luck with Nellies next treatment idea. I saw no more poo? If i remembeted the name properly, not sure if it wirks aswell as the reviews say. Will see if i can find it again and show you


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Oh no! was really hoping prokolin would help. Maybe just stick to what you know will help / helped in the past? Im not sure if its the food or prokolin that has helped. Normal poops today! I dread what i will wake up to tomorrow. Now Miller has finished a whole box of whiskas, im scared to buy more imcase he decides to change his mind. He hates food in jely but scoffed whiskas in jelly. Sometimes i just dont get the reasoning with him lol. Just likes me spending money on things that are useless haha. Have you got a moving date yet? I get that it must be hard trying to understand whats wrong with our pets but i dont think we should be ignored, or atleast seem to be. Good luck with Nellies next treatment idea. I saw no more poo? If i remembeted the name properly, not sure if it wirks aswell as the reviews say. Will see if i can find it again and show you


The Vet UK seems to work just as well as the more expensive one although Nellie doesnt like it as much, not that she likes either. I am still mixing the Hills ID chicken stew with AVF because she wouldnt eat the hills on its own.

No moving date as yet, getting fed up as since I sold in April it took me until the beginning of last month to find something to buy and neither solicitors mine and the vendors have got in contact with each other. Now mine did the end of last week but nothing from the vendors. I phoned the Estate agents who is selling the bungalow I am buying to see if they will get in touch with vendors solicitors, to get the ball rolling their end. My solicitor is away until Monday, what a palaver


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> The Vet UK seems to work just as well as the more expensive one although Nellie doesnt like it as much, not that she likes either. I am still mixing the Hills ID chicken stew with AVF because she wouldnt eat the hills on its own.
> 
> No moving date as yet, getting fed up as since I sold in April it took me until the beginning of last month to find something to buy and neither solicitors mine and the vendors have got in contact with each other. Now mine did the end of last week but nothing from the vendors. I phoned the Estate agents who is selling the bungalow I am buying to see if they will get in touch with vendors solicitors, to get the ball rolling their end. My solicitor is away until Monday, what a palaver


I think its all trial and error trying to find what works and doesnt. If vets uk one works i would personally stick with that. But atleast you tried! Omg! Thats some carry on. Its bad enough moving without it being delayed. Hope it gets moving along soon for you.
Miller wouldnt eat the duck whiskas last night and to save me going to the shop after 14hr shift, i gave him some of his old favourite gourmet...big mistake! No more for him lol  looks like im going shopping now before work


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## Caroline Linton

Sorry for being awol, work has been hectic and now the residents are back into isolation as 2 carers have covid plus another staff members daughter has it. So far residents and other staff have dodged it this time. Just wanted to update you on the investigation from Millers previous food. No traces of contamination and all the pouches passed all of the tests so thats a relief. Atleast i know i hadnt given him something that was causing harm. Hes now eating sheba as hes having plenty of tantrums with his food. He even had a normal poop tonight so im happy for now. Im sure it wont last long though knowing him. Seems to eat 1/2 a box of mixed flavours then goes off it. I am going to try rotating the food he does seem to eat to see if that helps. Like a few pouches of sheba, a few whiskas etc. Vet has basically said its IBD but didnt do a biopsy due to his stress levels with previous procedures and doesnt need to go back unless hes unwell again / i have more concerns / losing more weight. I just need to carry on with what i have been doing. Also his weight has stayed stable so im super happy at that, i just want him to put weight on now


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> The Vet UK seems to work just as well as the more expensive one although Nellie doesnt like it as much, not that she likes either. I am still mixing the Hills ID chicken stew with AVF because she wouldnt eat the hills on its own.
> 
> No moving date as yet, getting fed up as since I sold in April it took me until the beginning of last month to find something to buy and neither solicitors mine and the vendors have got in contact with each other. Now mine did the end of last week but nothing from the vendors. I phoned the Estate agents who is selling the bungalow I am buying to see if they will get in touch with vendors solicitors, to get the ball rolling their end. My solicitor is away until Monday, what a palaver


Have you heard anything about your moving date yet since your solicitor returned back to work?


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## jenny armour

This covid gets in the way, hope everything is ok now.
JJ has had the runs again lately. WAsnt sure if it was the food or his lymphoma, but I have had to put him back on Hills ZD. Spoke to the vet this evening and she said also put his steroid tablets back from half to one a day for a few days. I am hoping it was the raw although he and Oliver seemed ok on it for a couple of weeks. If it doesnt change then I have got to take him back. This is all I need what with the aggro with the move


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> This covid gets in the way, hope everything is ok now.
> JJ has had the runs again lately. WAsnt sure if it was the food or his lymphoma, but I have had to put him back on Hills ZD. Spoke to the vet this evening and she said also put his steroid tablets back from half to one a day for a few days. I am hoping it was the raw although he and Oliver seemed ok on it for a couple of weeks. If it doesnt change then I have got to take him back. This is all I need what with the aggro with the move


Aww poor JJ. Theres always one thing after another. Hope JJ gets back to normal very soon, fingers crossed the steroids work quickly for him and you. So your other cats are on raw? How did the change over go? Im scared to try a new type of diet with miller with being fairly stable


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Aww poor JJ. Theres always one thing after another. Hope JJ gets back to normal very soon, fingers crossed the steroids work quickly for him and you. So your other cats are on raw? How did the change over go? Im scared to try a new type of diet with miller with being fairly stable


No my cats are on different things, but four of them normally eat normal food, but my two outdoor cats will eat the raw. I would rock the boat if Miller is happy with what he eats, then leave well alone, could cause more problems.


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> No my cats are on different things, but four of them normally eat normal food, but my two outdoor cats will eat the raw. I would rock the boat if Miller is happy with what he eats, then leave well alone, could cause more problems.


I agree with not changing his food. I got my latest order today from zooplus lol so here we go again . Fingers crossed he hasnt changed his mind on what he eats. Got a couple of plug ins too, Feliway and another make. Will see if that helps his anxiety around eating and toileting. I admire anyone who has multi pet households that have to cater for different dietry needs. Must be confusing and frustrating at times. How is JJ doing now? Its weird if it was the food after a couple of weeks on it. Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery for him


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> I agree with not changing his food. I got my latest order today from zooplus lol so here we go again . Fingers crossed he hasnt changed his mind on what he eats. Got a couple of plug ins too, Feliway and another make. Will see if that helps his anxiety around eating and toileting. I admire anyone who has multi pet households that have to cater for different dietry needs. Must be confusing and frustrating at times. How is JJ doing now? Its weird if it was the food after a couple of weeks on it. Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery for him


JJ is more or less the same a bit loose perhaps not quite as bad. The vet said to keep him on a whole steroid tablet a day and see how he is on Tuesday, if he is no better I have got to take him back. He seems to have loose stools every other day so wait until tomorrow and see if he has it then. I hope not


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## Caroline Linton

Miller was doing so well with his diet and now its back to the beginning again. I am ordering raw food tomorrow as i am at a loss with finding food for him. He is constantly turning up his nose at every food i buy and he has lost 2lb this week. Im sad seeing him lose weight and i can feel his spine (still podgy everywhere else) which makes me think of putting him out of his misery. I dont know if its because thats the least fatty bit of him and i panic hes fading away which is frustrating me. Then after thinking that i feel guilty and cry Hes always been a big boy but im heart broken that i cant seem to fix him. I need to find something that will suit him and make his life worth living. I dont know if im struggling more than usual as to me he is my baby and as i cant have children, i focus on him like he is one. I think my friends all think im the crazy cat lady but easy for them as they have children and to them hes just a cat. To me Miller is more than that to me, thats why i spoil him so much


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## Caroline Linton

For my next question, it might sound silly but im clueless. Do i transistion miller gradually onto a raw diet or just change it straight away? Hes constantly having loose stools (almost water) and has been sick 3 times already tonight. I know a new food will upset his tummy but the way he is right now i dont see much difference with normal food v raw food chage over. I know its advice and not everyone is medically trained vets but i really could use some advice from someone in the same posistion / or has been in this situation. Miller and myself send a big thank you for any input you can give us


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> JJ is more or less the same a bit loose perhaps not quite as bad. The vet said to keep him on a whole steroid tablet a day and see how he is on Tuesday, if he is no better I have got to take him back. He seems to have loose stools every other day so wait until tomorrow and see if he has it then. I hope not


Aww poor JJ, hope the steroid helped him. I wish my vet would do that, but they just give him an injection as its easier but i would prefer a tablet that can be altered to suit him with the bad days. I know in a way a jag is easier in the long run but it doesnt seem to help him much as it lasts for 1 month at a time. Is it all in my head?


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## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Aww poor JJ, hope the steroid helped him. I wish my vet would do that, but they just give him an injection as its easier but i would prefer a tablet that can be altered to suit him with the bad days. I know in a way a jag is easier in the long run but it doesnt seem to help him much as it lasts for 1 month at a time. Is it all in my head?


The injection is most likely steroid anyway


Caroline Linton said:


> For my next question, it might sound silly but im clueless. Do i transistion miller gradually onto a raw diet or just change it straight away? Hes constantly having loose stools (almost water) and has been sick 3 times already tonight. I know a new food will upset his tummy but the way he is right now i dont see much difference with normal food v raw food chage over. I know its advice and not everyone is medically trained vets but i really could use some advice from someone in the same posistion / or has been in this situation. Miller and myself send a big thank you for any input you can give us


You will probably find the injection is steroid, some vets do it instead of tablets. As regards to transition I would do it gradually with his stomach being the way it is.

JJ is still loose, so I have booked him on Tuesday to see my usual vet, who I havent seen since the first lockdown but he is the only one I can rely on.

I would still get a second opinion in case its not IBD as my vet thought JJ had IBD. He is currently back on Hills ZD.

Also changing the subject, the bottom of my house chain fell through on Tuesday, so my buyers are having to put their house back on the market this week. All it seems is happening at once


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## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> The injection is most likely steroid anyway
> 
> You will probably find the injection is steroid, some vets do it instead of tablets. As regards to transition I would do it gradually with his stomach being the way it is.
> 
> JJ is still loose, so I have booked him on Tuesday to see my usual vet, who I havent seen since the first lockdown but he is the only one I can rely on.
> 
> I would still get a second opinion in case its not IBD as my vet thought JJ had IBD. He is currently back on Hills ZD.
> 
> Also changing the subject, the bottom of my house chain fell through on Tuesday, so my buyers are having to put their house back on the market this week. All it seems is happening at once


Sorry to hear about the move! How frustrating! Getting ready and organising the moving process just to be held back like that. Atleast you dont have to rush trying to catch your feral cat.

Good luck for tuesdays vet appt, its hard finding a vet who you can trust and rely on. I had a great vet in the past but that was down in england years ago, really felt they cared more about the pet than the money. Maybe im just being a bit fed up with not knowing the true outcome. I have been told that miller would need to get knocked out to get the proper tests done, but im still convinced it all started when he got his teeth out / bad effect from the sedation, unless it just esculated since then. Im still trying to find a new vet that is taking on more patients but they all seem to say theyre struggling with their exsisting work load due to covid. Might try further away from my home to get a 2nd opinion

Yes, the monthly inj was a steroid, i dont know if its a coincidence but the steroid inj he had 1st covered the ailements for 1 week, then the 2nd lasted a month. I saw more improvement with the weekly jag. But like i say, is it all a coincidence?

And sorry for the big rant last night, i was emotional when i was typing it out. Just needed to get it all out not that this msg is any smaller


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Fingers crossed it works and he will eat it! Melvin wolfs it down and it comes in 4 flavours which seems to keep her interested enough. Shes not bothered by the treats though but that's okay, she doesnt need treats  I think Melvin is only supposed to have 1 pattie a day, but she usually has 1 and a half to 2 patties depending on how hungry she is. We feed her half at a time. Shes been so skinny for so long we are happy to give her as much as she wants at the moment!


Hi Emlar,
Just a quick question, i have reordered raw food from luna and me. Does the food come frozen or do i freeze it once the food has arrived? It says about quick thaw on info page but apart from contacting support, i thought that you could be the one to ask.


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## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> Hi Emlar,
> Just a quick question, i have reordered raw food from luna and me. Does the food come frozen or do i freeze it once the food has arrived? It says about quick thaw on info page but apart from contacting support, i thought that you could be the one to ask.


It arrives frozen in a polystyrene ice packed box and then you transfer it to your freezer.


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> It arrives frozen in a polystyrene ice packed box and then you transfer it to your freezer.


Thanks for letting me know


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## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> Thanks for letting me know


No worries! Any other questions, just ask


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> For my next question, it might sound silly but im clueless. Do i transistion miller gradually onto a raw diet or just change it straight away? Hes constantly having loose stools (almost water) and has been sick 3 times already tonight. I know a new food will upset his tummy but the way he is right now i dont see much difference with normal food v raw food chage over. I know its advice and not everyone is medically trained vets but i really could use some advice from someone in the same posistion / or has been in this situation. Miller and myself send a big thank you for any input you can give us


I don't know my experience may or may not help. I have a ten ago Scottish short hair cat. He has developed IBD last year. His symptom was diarrhoea and sometimes vomiting. The vet recommended change to a low sensitivities Hills Z/D and gave him steroids treatment. The stool returned to normal. The steroids tablet quantity has to be reduced to a minimum quantity because there are so many side effects with steroids. The vet performed ultrasound on his stomach and intestine. The comment is thicken intestine but cannot find the root cause. After two months treatment, my poor cat has breathing difficulties. I sent him to vet hospital and found his heart enlarged (HCM). Is it the side effects of steroids or he has HCM and causing IBD? Steroids should be very careful if continuously using. Finally, my cardiologist recommended to stop the steroid. I am giving probiotics and HCM medications. It seems his stool is under controlled.


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## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> For my next question, it might sound silly but im clueless. Do i transistion miller gradually onto a raw diet or just change it straight away? Hes constantly having loose stools (almost water) and has been sick 3 times already tonight. I know a new food will upset his tummy but the way he is right now i dont see much difference with normal food v raw food chage over. I know its advice and not everyone is medically trained vets but i really could use some advice from someone in the same posistion / or has been in this situation. Miller and myself send a big thank you for any input you can give us


Sorry, I hadn't seen this question before.
With Melvin, because we were in the same position as you, that she was just having constant diahorrea, we just swapped straight without a transition. We figured she couldn't get any worse. I think you're 'supposed' to transition, but its up to you whether you think there would be any benefit to that.


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> I don't know my experience may or may not help. I have a ten ago Scottish short hair cat. He has developed IBD last year. His symptom was diarrhoea and sometimes vomiting. The vet recommended change to a low sensitivities Hills Z/D and gave him steroids treatment. The stool returned to normal. The steroids tablet quantity has to be reduced to a minimum quantity because there are so many side effects with steroids. The vet performed ultrasound on his stomach and intestine. The comment is thicken intestine but cannot find the root cause. After two months treatment, my poor cat has breathing difficulties. I sent him to vet hospital and found his heart enlarged (HCM). Is it the side effects of steroids or he has HCM and causing IBD? Steroids should be very careful if continuously using. Finally, my cardiologist recommended to stop the steroid. I am giving probiotics and HCM medications. It seems his stool is under controlled.


Thanks for the reply and info. Im too giving probiotics but to be honest im not sure if its helping. Im going back to the vets next week so hopefully they will do something to help him. Sorry to hear of the issues the steroids have maybe caused. Hope hes doing ok, so sad when they are unwell. Luna and me didnt go down with him at all. Totally snubbed the food, im so frustrated! I even cooked some of it aswell


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## Caroline Linton

Emlar said:


> Sorry, I hadn't seen this question before.
> With Melvin, because we were in the same position as you, that she was just having constant diahorrea, we just swapped straight without a transition. We figured she couldn't get any worse. I think you're 'supposed' to transition, but its up to you whether you think there would be any benefit to that.


Im at the stage i dont know what else to try. Luna and me was delivered today. Tried it raw and cooked and he wont even look at it. I even put tuna mixed in with it, still a no. Every food i buy he wont eat due to being fussy or feeling unwell. Meowing constantly for food but everything is ignored. I honestly think i have more types of food here than pets at home! I will try ignoring him for a while to see if that makes him eat. I have many kinds of special diet food, normal food in jelly / sauce / gravy, kitten food, 11+, 7+, every brand i can get hold of. Even dry food. He might eat a little of each now and then but not enough to help his tummy or prevent him from losing more weight. Any suggestions before i go crazy?


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Thanks for the reply and info. Im too giving probiotics but to be honest im not sure if its helping. Im going back to the vets next week so hopefully they will do something to help him. Sorry to hear of the issues the steroids have maybe caused. Hope hes doing ok, so sad when they are unwell. Luna and me didnt go down with him at all. Totally snubbed the food, im so frustrated! I even cooked some of it aswell


With IBD, I have tried almost everything I can do. My vet is recommending to feed him with Vitamin B12 to improve his stomach and intestines. Also, I feed my cats with fixed small qty and multiple meals(recording daily qty). Fortunately, he has good appetite especially vet is giving him antibiotics to replace steroids. His stool is returning to slightly soft but it is still in normal form and colour. One suggestion on probiotics is increased to double or more. This is found to be effective for my cat. Luckily, he likes the Hills C/D can food with sensitivities formation. Anyway, be careful about steroids and it's potential side effects. Hope your cat get well soon


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Im at the stage i dont know what else to try. Luna and me was delivered today. Tried it raw and cooked and he wont even look at it. I even put tuna mixed in with it, still a no. Every food i buy he wont eat due to being fussy or feeling unwell. Meowing constantly for food but everything is ignored. I honestly think i have more types of food here than pets at home! I will try ignoring him for a while to see if that makes him eat. I have many kinds of special diet food, normal food in jelly / sauce / gravy, kitten food, 11+, 7+, every brand i can get hold of. Even dry food. He might eat a little of each now and then but not enough to help his tummy or prevent him from losing more weight. Any suggestions before i go crazy?


If cats do not eat, he/she is feeling pain or may be vomiting, In the past I will bring him to see the vet if he is not eating. It is expensive as the vet will have to do a lot of tests including blood test, ultrasonic scan, x-ray etc to look for potential problems. Or Vet can just give him an injection to stop his pain and or vitamin B12 to see his response. If he start eating and return to normal. Vet rely on all these testing to find out possible issues. Blood test can tell a lot . Cat can dehydrated if he/she doesn't eat or drink. I also heard that he/she does not eat for a day. The liver can also be damaged. In Hong Kong, I will bring my cat to emergency if he doesn't eat for more than one day. I am not familiar with London yet.


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> If cats do not eat, he/she is feeling pain or may be vomiting, In the past I will bring him to see the vet if he is not eating. It is expensive as the vet will have to do a lot of tests including blood test, ultrasonic scan, x-ray etc to look for potential problems. Or Vet can just give him an injection to stop his pain and or vitamin B12 to see his response. If he start eating and return to normal. Vet rely on all these testing to find out possible issues. Blood test can tell a lot . Cat can dehydrated if he/she doesn't eat or drink. I also heard that he/she does not eat for a day. The liver can also be damaged. In Hong Kong, I will bring my cat to emergency if he doesn't eat for more than one day. I am not familiar with London yet.


Yes i agree withyou. ive also seen that if a cat doesnt eat or drink, it can lead to alot of problems. I must admit hes a good drinker, he is eating bits n pieces but to me its not enough. Vet is full up and said to wait til monday, maybe a jag of some kind will prob be given. Im trying my hardest, but i guess when your feeling unwell, its hard to eat with Humans or animals. I just wish my boy would help by trying to eat. I feel like im slowly losing my boy, who has had a good life and is 13yrs. He has his good days but they are getting less and less. I dont think hes suffering yet, im just trying to avoid that. Unfortunately thats out of my control as i have said before, hes a very stubburn cat who wont be easily persuaded. Believe me, i feel like i have tried everything. I even got baby food for him. Not that i blaim him for not eating it lol i tried a bit and spat it out . I will continue to do what i can for him. Im just not ready to say goodbye to him, mind you, are we ever ready? I even got a chinese last night just so he could eat the chicken balls. I wouldnt mind trying the b12 inj, just to see if he improves. Im in the uk, but as far as i know they removed 2 teeth, then took ibd sypmtoms. The vet has done plenty of blood tests in their own lab plus sending them off to the main lab, steroid inj for 1 week and then a steroid inj that lasted almost a month. Im not aware of them doing any ultra sounds or an xray. I said no to a biopsy as he didnt seem well after the anaesthesia with
the teeth removal, which is why they first thought he had pancreatitis*. *Vet also said its hard to diagnose.


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Yes i agree withyou. ive also seen that if a cat doesnt eat or drink, it can lead to alot of problems. I must admit hes a good drinker, he is eating bits n pieces but to me its not enough. Vet is full up and said to wait til monday, maybe a jag of some kind will prob be given. Im trying my hardest, but i guess when your feeling unwell, its hard to eat with Humans or animals. I just wish my boy would help by trying to eat. I feel like im slowly losing my boy, who has had a good life and is 13yrs. He has his good days but they are getting less and less. I dont think hes suffering yet, im just trying to avoid that. Unfortunately thats out of my control as i have said before, hes a very stubburn cat who wont be easily persuaded. Believe me, i feel like i have tried everything. I even got baby food for him. Not that i blaim him for not eating it lol i tried a bit and spat it out . I will continue to do what i can for him. Im just not ready to say goodbye to him, mind you, are we ever ready? I even got a chinese last night just so he could eat the chicken balls. I wouldnt mind trying the b12 inj, just to see if he improves. Im in the uk, but as far as i know they removed 2 teeth, then took ibd sypmtoms. The vet has done plenty of blood tests in their own lab plus sending them off to the main lab, steroid inj for 1 week and then a steroid inj that lasted almost a month. Im not aware of them doing any ultra sounds or an xray. I said no to a biopsy as he didnt seem well after the anaesthesia with
> the teeth removal, which is why they first thought he had pancreatitis*. *Vet also said its hard to diagnose.


Sorry to hear that I didn't look all the posts and replies. Now, I understand a bit more. Steroids is to control inflammation of intestines but there is a lot of side effects. My boy(10yrs old Scottish shorthair) has IBD and treated with steroids. First two months, he is doing very well. But suddenly one day his breathing is extremely fast and he is coughing with water. Bring him immediately to emergency, they gave him oxygen and injection to discharge water from the lung. If your boy is no steroids, please watch out his breathing rate per min. In normal cat, it is less than 30/ mins.

If your boy can each a little bit, please see whether it can be improved with hand feed or slight warm foods. Cats appetite is depending on smell because they have a strong sense on smell and their taste is not too sensitive as human. I am feeding my boy four meals per day with daily consumption suggested. With IBD, you cannot give a lot of food. It need to simple protein in structure. One more thing I am giving him a daily enzyme complex. It will help his appetite too. The enzyme will reduce the complex molecular structure into simple structure and helps to absorption.


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> Sorry to hear that I didn't look all the posts and replies. Now, I understand a bit more. Steroids is to control inflammation of intestines but there is a lot of side effects. My boy(10yrs old Scottish shorthair) has IBD and treated with steroids. First two months, he is doing very well. But suddenly one day his breathing is extremely fast and he is coughing with water. Bring him immediately to emergency, they gave him oxygen and injection to discharge water from the lung. If your boy is no steroids, please watch out his breathing rate per min. In normal cat, it is less than 30/ mins.
> 
> If your boy can each a little bit, please see whether it can be improved with hand feed or slight warm foods. Cats appetite is depending on smell because they have a strong sense on smell and their taste is not too sensitive as human. I am feeding my boy four meals per day with daily consumption suggested. With IBD, you cannot give a lot of food. It need to simple protein in structure. One more thing I am giving him a daily enzyme complex. It will help his appetite too. The enzyme will reduce the complex molecular structure into simple structure and helps to absorption.


Thanks for the information, i will look at enzymes for him. I have tried various things to tempt him. Even cat gravy, but that was a no. I work 12hr shifts and i must say i think i have had 2 hours sleep max overnight. Asking for food but wont eat. Am shattered and frustrated right now. I have decided to phone the vet as soon as they open so that hopefully they can squeeze him in today or tomorrow. My heart goes out to him and i feel for other people going through this also. I know he has a sore belly this morning as he wants his tummy rubbed constantly and thats one of the reasons i knew he was unwell before. He is affectionate with hubby but not so much with me, thats a big help to me as i know he is telling me something is wrong. Weird because the vet said typical cats hide their illness well but lucky for me he doesnt hide it. I will let you know of any updates with the vet / treatment
When he got the first jag, the vet advised on side effects so im always watching him with breathing / change in behaviour etc. I am currently popping home on my breaks to check on him, change his litter or puppy pads if needed / try to feed him. I have finally got him to eat the gravy out of one of the felix pouches. Not a great diet but atleast he took something. Hes also had some probiotics this morning which is such a fun process with a syringue. He looks like he is in camouflage with most of it being on him rather than in him, ive tried cleaning him up with diluted cat shampoo and a baby sponge. Right now mr whingy is now mr grumpy 

I must admit, i have been very lucky over the years with my previous cats. Never faced anything like this as i was lucky with their health and never seemed ill. I am amazed how many others are suffering with IBD on this website. Good luck to all of you and your fur babies


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## Caroline Linton

@jenny armour any improvement with JJ since the vet appointment? With the house move falling through, do you just need to patiently wait for a new seller for the other person or do you have to start looking for houses again? As you may of seen on here, the new raw diet was another waste of time so far. I honestly dont know what else to try


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## Thomsonlee

I got a old blood test report to confirm IBD of my boy. The blood test indicated ALB 23-39g/L. My boy was at 15g/L. Vet said this was hypoAlbuminaemia. The possible root causes are heart disease, IBD inflammatory, GI cancer, intestines lymph nodes issues, intestine Parasite, 
Bowel disease, high protein in urine....The root of IBD is usually unknown. Vet may need to perform ultrasonic scan to check intestine wall thickness and tumo. IBD is not a simple disease. It is not just changing to raw food can solve the problem. 

IBD typical treatment
1) Steroids with high to low dose
2) change to low an allergic food (trial and error)
3) try antibiotic instead of steroids
4) Inject B12 regularly
5) use of probiotics and enzyme compkex


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> I got a old blood test report to confirm IBD of my boy. The blood test indicated ALB 23-39g/L. My boy was at 15g/L. Vet said this was hypoAlbuminaemia. The possible root causes are heart disease, IBD inflammatory, GI cancer, intestines lymph nodes issues, intestine Parasite,
> Bowel disease, high protein in urine....The root of IBD is usually unknown. Vet may need to perform ultrasonic scan to check intestine wall thickness and tumo. IBD is not a simple disease. It is not just changing to raw food can solve the problem.
> 
> IBD typical treatment
> 1) Steroids with high to low dose
> 2) change to low an allergic food (trial and error)
> 3) try antibiotic instead of steroids
> 4) Inject B12 regularly
> 5) use of probiotics and enzyme compkex


This is the results i have so far since june 2021. All raised levels for urea is now normal, they decided he had an urine infection after teeth were removed. I will ask for a copy of the last blood tests he had done around a month ago. He usually likes going out in the car and to the vets maybe a house cat thing, seeing different people and scenery. Now hes been getting shaved and bloods done regulary, its hard to catch him as he gets anxious

Bloods taken for biochemistry - UREA high, CREA normal. Glucose borderline high but within stress level for cats. Will send to IDEXX for fuller picture (inc T4, Ca) but start on antibiotics meanwhile in case of urine infection. Idexx bloods attached. T4 normal at 30 Calcium normal, SDMA normal at 11 ALT raised at 111.1 (ref 5.0 - 60.0), Cholesterol slightly raised, ALP and GGT normal. Raised urea and glucose as already noted See how Miller is after Clavaseptin, and reweigh in 1 month. Bloods taken for biochemistry - UREA high, CREA normal. Glucose borderline high but within stress level for cats. Will send to IDEXX for fuller picture (inc T4, Ca) but start on antibiotics meanwhile in case of urine infection. No tachycardia

I have got miller booked in for friday morning as im concerned about him. I have tried many various diets suited to ibd but he wont eat any of them (the cat shelter appreciated the food even if he didnt), infact hes not interested in normal food either. Mlsaying that, i managed to get him to eat 3 meals today which was kinda weird as hes now eating since i phoned the vets! Only tried raw diet to see if he would tolerate that. I am currently using probiotics (tried various brands), have tried a few other things like powders that go in his food but wont eat anything with that in it. I will mention the antibiotics and b12 om friday. Think hes having his bloods done again as the vet asked about his weight Etc. He has always been a large cat with a large frame and weighed 8.8kg in june, now hes just over 6kg. Losing weight is good but not that quickly and obviously the toiletry and sickness problems. Hes still chunky but very skinny on his back, you can really feel his bones. I appreciate all the help your giving me


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> This is the results i have so far since june 2021. All raised levels for urea is now normal, they decided he had an urine infection after teeth were removed. I will ask for a copy of the last blood tests he had done around a month ago. He usually likes going out in the car and to the vets maybe a house cat thing, seeing different people and scenery. Now hes been getting shaved and bloods done regulary, its hard to catch him as he gets anxious
> 
> Bloods taken for biochemistry - UREA high, CREA normal. Glucose borderline high but within stress level for cats. Will send to IDEXX for fuller picture (inc T4, Ca) but start on antibiotics meanwhile in case of urine infection. Idexx bloods attached. T4 normal at 30 Calcium normal, SDMA normal at 11 ALT raised at 111.1 (ref 5.0 - 60.0), Cholesterol slightly raised, ALP and GGT normal. Raised urea and glucose as already noted See how Miller is after Clavaseptin, and reweigh in 1 month. Bloods taken for biochemistry - UREA high, CREA normal. Glucose borderline high but within stress level for cats. Will send to IDEXX for fuller picture (inc T4, Ca) but start on antibiotics meanwhile in case of urine infection. No tachycardia
> 
> I have got miller booked in for friday morning as im concerned about him. I have tried many various diets suited to ibd but he wont eat any of them (the cat shelter appreciated the food even if he didnt), infact hes not interested in normal food either. Mlsaying that, i managed to get him to eat 3 meals today which was kinda weird as hes now eating since i phoned the vets! Only tried raw diet to see if he would tolerate that. I am currently using probiotics (tried various brands), have tried a few other things like powders that go in his food but wont eat anything with that in it. I will mention the antibiotics and b12 om friday. Think hes having his bloods done again as the vet asked about his weight Etc. He has always been a large cat with a large frame and weighed 8.8kg in june, now hes just over 6kg. Losing weight is good but not that quickly and obviously the toiletry and sickness problems. Hes still chunky but very skinny on his back, you can really feel his bones. I appreciate all the help your giving me


You are welcome. I just share some of my past experience. Regarding probiotics, it need to withstand stomach acid. In case of diarrhea is serious, I will double the dose and my boy is ok with probiotics. He doesn't like salmon taste at all and refuse to eat. Any food chicken taste he is OK even I add the probiotics, enzymes and B12.
Apparently IBD is under control. I am looking for vet cardiologist to look at his heart problem. Do you have experience in cardiologist? I have an appointment tomorrow with Royal veterinary college. They run the RVC Beaumont Sainsbury Animal Hospital. Do you familiar with them or any good vet in London?


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> You are welcome. I just share some of my past experience. Regarding probiotics, it need to withstand stomach acid. In case of diarrhea is serious, I will double the dose and my boy is ok with probiotics. He doesn't like salmon taste at all and refuse to eat. Any food chicken taste he is OK even I add the probiotics, enzymes and B12.
> Apparently IBD is under control. I am looking for vet cardiologist to look at his heart problem. Do you have experience in cardiologist? I have an appointment tomorrow with Royal veterinary college. They run the RVC Beaumont Sainsbury Animal Hospital. Do you familiar with them or any good vet in London?


Miller is currently at the vets, talking about a inj. Waiting to see what one he is getting. I have previously used the royal veterinary college in london years ago with one of my dogs. I couldnt fault them but was very pricey (dog was hit by a car, our vet gave medication that she was allergic too and they treated her for that) im afraid i now live in scotland so i cant help with vets or cardiologists in your area. Good luck though. Maybe someone else on this forum maybe able to you with recommendations.


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## Caroline Linton

He had a Anabolic steroid and some sachets of powder for his food to help his bowels for 7 days. Hes lost more weight, hopefully his appertite will improve now. If he loses more weight or the symptoms dont go away he will go back to the vets next week. Fingers crossed this helps him. Thank you all so much for your advice and input you have given us


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## Thomsonlee

Thomsonlee said:


> You are welcome. I just share some of my past experience. Regarding probiotics, it need to withstand stomach acid. In case of diarrhea is serious, I will double the dose and my boy is ok with probiotics. He doesn't like salmon taste at all and refuse to eat. Any food chicken taste he is OK even I add the probiotics, enzymes and B12.
> Apparently IBD is under control. I am looking for vet cardiologist to look at his heart problem. Do you have experience in cardiologist? I have an appointment tomorrow with Royal veterinary college. They run the RVC Beaumont Sainsbury Animal Hospital. Do you familiar with them or any good vet in London?


I went to RVC yesterday. I explained the situation and his history. In fact, I have sent them a whole files with historical treatment and medications. My cardiologist is very good. They have all the x-ray, blood tests included in a pdf file. I think their charge is very reasonable as compared with Hong Kong. They will order medicine for my boy.
Many thanks.


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> I went to RVC yesterday. I explained the situation and his history. In fact, I have sent them a whole files with historical treatment and medications. My cardiologist is very good. They have all the x-ray, blood tests included in a pdf file. I think their charge is very reasonable as compared with Hong Kong. They will order medicine for my boy.
> Many thanks.


Thats good to hear. Sometimes it doesnt matter about how much it is, aslong as your boy is doing well thats the main thing


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## Caroline Linton

Caroline Linton said:


> He had a Anabolic steroid and some sachets of powder for his good to help his bowels for 7 days. Hes lost more weight, hopefully his appertite will improve now. If he loses more weight or the symptoms dont go away he will go back to the vets next week. Fingers crossed this helps him. Thank you all so much for your advice and input you have given us


Appertite hasnt changed yet, im hoping with everything i have that i can see some kund of improvement. Seems to eat flies / spiders / jenny long legged thingys but not much interest in food. Vet said to get him to eat anything i can for now so hes currently having a few bites of tuna in spring water here n there. Even tried warming up his food


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Thats good to hear. Sometimes it doesnt matter about how much it is, aslong as your boy is doing well thats the main thing


Absolutely


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## Caroline Linton

Spoke to the vet today, miller staying at the vets all day 2moro as he is more poorly. On fri he was 5.3kg, today hes 4.7kg. Hes eating abit more than he was but mainly the gravy only. Vet very conerned at the weight loss and with the anabolic not working. Im beside myself with worry and heart broken. I fear that the time is coming that i will have to say goodbye. Will keep u updated


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Spoke to the vet today, miller staying at the vets all day 2moro as he is more poorly. On fri he was 5.3kg, today hes 4.7kg. Hes eating abit more than he was but mainly the gravy only. Vet very conerned at the weight loss and with the anabolic not working. Im beside myself with worry and heart broken. I fear that the time is coming that i will have to say goodbye. Will keep u updated


Too sad to hear that. Please keep us update. Hope he can recover speedily.


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## Caroline Linton

I have good news. He had iv fluids for the day, new meds to help his appertite and started on a royal canine diet (being abit fussy atm). Hes avoiding me and my hubby until he has finished sulking but atleast hes home. He had a settled night and looks brighter this morning. Really hoping to see an improvement in the next few days. Still has watery poop but im working on that ♡


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> I have good news. He had iv fluids for the day, new meds to help his appertite and started on a royal canine diet (being abit fussy atm). Hes avoiding me and my hubby until he has finished sulking but atleast hes home. He had a settled night and looks brighter this morning. Really hoping to see an improvement in the next few days. Still has watery poop but im working on that ♡


Very good. Add oil. My boy is doing ok. His blood test result is good except potassium is low. I have to increase dosing. But, one problem with RVC that they insist to sell me the medications. I checked the price is four times higher than buying with prescription. Is this normal in UK? How to deal with it?


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> Very good. Add oil. My boy is doing ok. His blood test result is good except potassium is low. I have to increase dosing. But, one problem with RVC that they insist to sell me the medications. I checked the price is four times higher than buying with prescription. Is this normal in UK? How to deal with it?


Im not sure how you deal with prescriptions to be honest. Only thing i can think of is that they want to tend to your boy and supply the meds. Unless you could get the meds from a trusted source like hong kong? Not sure if you have family or friends still there that could send you them? Im very weary of buying medications for humans or pets online


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Im not sure how you deal with prescriptions to be honest. Only thing i can think of is that they want to tend to your boy and supply the meds. Unless you could get the meds from a trusted source like hong kong? Not sure if you have family or friends still there that could send you them? Im very weary of buying medications for humans or pets online


I just get the prescription and purchased on online. It has arrived and I check the packaging, manufacturer etc are exactly the same as what I am bringing from HK. Temporary I think it is ok. The price order online is 1/3 price from RVC....same medications....


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## Caroline Linton

Update on Miller. After returning home from the vets he has now finished the Emeprid solution and hes eating non stop. He will only eat 1 flavour of food but hes now 5.5kg! His lowest weight was 4.7kg and im not sure if i have said this already but last tuesdays stay at the vets with iv fluids plus anything else he had that day really did saved my boy. That was my lowest time with him. I was constantly crying and no motivation as i thought his time was up and i cant thank the vets enough for their help. I am keeping the vets updated weekly. Only draw back is hes constantly hungry and that effects his bowels. Cant win though, either he doesnt eat and loses weight, or eats all the time and has loose stools. Hes some boy but i wouldnt be without him. I just hope he doesnt get fed up with the 1 flavour of cat food he is tolerating. He even ate some treats which he totally dismissed since being sick


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> I just get the prescription and purchased on online. It has arrived and I check the packaging, manufacturer etc are exactly the same as what I am bringing from HK. Temporary I think it is ok. The price order online is 1/3 price from RVC....same medications....


Thats good to hear, by the way where did you buy them? Just out of curiousity for the future


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## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Thats good to hear, by the way where did you buy them? Just out of curiousity for the future


Let me ask my daughter, she compared several web and looking at different comment of people. Then paid by card and they delivere


Caroline Linton said:


> Update on Miller. After returning home from the vets he has now finished the Emeprid solution and hes eating non stop. He will only eat 1 flavour of food but hes now 5.5kg! His lowest weight was 4.7kg and im not sure if i have said this already but last tuesdays stay at the vets with iv fluids plus anything else he had that day really did saved my boy. That was my lowest time with him. I was constantly crying and no motivation as i thought his time was up and i cant thank the vets enough for their help. I am keeping the vets updated weekly. Only draw back is hes constantly hungry and that effects his bowels. Cant win though, either he doesnt eat and loses weight, or eats all the time and has loose stools. Hes some boy but i wouldnt be without him. I just hope he doesnt get fed up with the 1 flavour of cat food he is tolerating. He even ate some treats which he totally dismissed since being sick


With IBD, you cannot let him eat as much as he likes. This will put too much pressure on his bowel and resulting loose stools again. It may better to feed him with feeding machine like 3-4 times a day. His digestion and absorption will be better. When my boy started to have IBD, I tried to feed on 4-6 times with small qty.

For treats, it is also not recommended to have. It can cause allergies and it has no nutritional value.


----------



## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Thats good to hear, by the way where did you buy them? Just out of curiousity for the future


It is coming from Vetimed you can contact [email protected]


----------



## Thomsonlee

Caroline Linton said:


> Thats good to hear, by the way where did you buy them? Just out of curiousity for the future


You may have to look at the web and see whether that medication. They are not selling all kind of medications.
Thanks


----------



## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> It is coming from Vetimed you can contact [email protected]


Thanks. I will have a look


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## Caroline Linton

Thomsonlee said:


> Let me ask my daughter, she compared several web and looking at different comment of people. Then paid by card and they delivere
> 
> With IBD, you cannot let him eat as much as he likes. This will put too much pressure on his bowel and resulting loose stools again. It may better to feed him with feeding machine like 3-4 times a day. His digestion and absorption will be better. When my boy started to have IBD, I tried to feed on 4-6 times with small qty.
> 
> For treats, it is also not recommended to have. It can cause allergies and it has no nutritional value.


Yeah i have been limiting his intake but hes not happy with that so i put water in it to fill him up aswell for extra hydration. Think hes having 5 small meals which is roughly 2.5 pouches a day. Only giving him 3 -4 treats every other day to help his teeth stay clean (dont want anymore dental treatment for him if i can help it). I have promax from the vet again if his bowels flare up again. Just glad hes eating and putting weight on. Hes got more energy too. Vet suggested that aslong as hes eating and the side effects arent bad theyre happy for now. Will look at him in a week or so so to see how he is getting on. Due another inj in 2 weeks time if he needs it. Thanks for all of your input. Hows your boy doing?


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## Caroline Linton

It saddens me to say this but miller deteriated fairly quickly and unfortunately had to put to sleep on thurs 21st oct 2021. Were devastated as a family and it feels like we have lost a child. 13 happy years with my lovely boy and we planned on having 2 extra days with him to fulfil all of his favourite things (he wasnt in pain). The memories we have collected over the years will keep him alive in our hearts, he was a brave boy right to the end. Being a house cat, we treated him to a afternoon in the garden on that dreaded day. Last few weeks he was struggling to find any energy, but on this day he made me proud by staying out in the garden until we had to go to the vets. I believe he knew this was the end and he took in every bit of scenery as if it was his last. Were totally heart broken but so proud of our boy. RIP baby boy, you will always be loved and never forgotten. I advise you all to cherish your fur babies and make many memories as life is too short. Thanks to all of you that offered advice on Miller. It helped so much that we wasnt alone on this journey


----------



## TriTri

Caroline Linton said:


> It saddens me to say this but miller deteriated fairly quickly and unfortunately had to put to sleep on thurs 21st oct 2021. Were devastated as a family and it feels like we have lost a child. 13 happy years with my lovely boy and we planned on having 2 extra days with him to fulfil all of his favourite things (he wasnt in pain). The memories we have collected over the years will keep him alive in our hearts, he was a brave boy right to the end. Being a house cat, we treated him to a afternoon in the garden on that dreaded day. Last few weeks he was struggling to find any energy, but on this day he made me proud by staying out in the garden until we had to go to the vets. I believe he knew this was the end and he took in every bit of scenery as if it was his last. Were totally heart broken but so proud of our boy. RIP baby boy, you will always be loved and never forgotten. I advise you all to cherish your fur babies and make many memories as life is too short. Thanks to all of you that offered advice on Miller. It helped so much that we wasnt alone on this journey


I'm so sorry for your loss @Caroline Linton. 
RIP dear Miller xx


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## SbanR

Heartbreaking. I'm very sorry for your loss @Caroline Linton.
RIP Miller


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## Thomsonlee

RIP.....heartbreaking


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## Emlar

Caroline Linton said:


> It saddens me to say this but miller deteriated fairly quickly and unfortunately had to put to sleep on thurs 21st oct 2021. Were devastated as a family and it feels like we have lost a child. 13 happy years with my lovely boy and we planned on having 2 extra days with him to fulfil all of his favourite things (he wasnt in pain). The memories we have collected over the years will keep him alive in our hearts, he was a brave boy right to the end. Being a house cat, we treated him to a afternoon in the garden on that dreaded day. Last few weeks he was struggling to find any energy, but on this day he made me proud by staying out in the garden until we had to go to the vets. I believe he knew this was the end and he took in every bit of scenery as if it was his last. Were totally heart broken but so proud of our boy. RIP baby boy, you will always be loved and never forgotten. I advise you all to cherish your fur babies and make many memories as life is too short. Thanks to all of you that offered advice on Miller. It helped so much that we wasnt alone on this journey


Sorry to hear this. RIP Miller xxx


----------



## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> It saddens me to say this but miller deteriated fairly quickly and unfortunately had to put to sleep on thurs 21st oct 2021. Were devastated as a family and it feels like we have lost a child. 13 happy years with my lovely boy and we planned on having 2 extra days with him to fulfil all of his favourite things (he wasnt in pain). The memories we have collected over the years will keep him alive in our hearts, he was a brave boy right to the end. Being a house cat, we treated him to a afternoon in the garden on that dreaded day. Last few weeks he was struggling to find any energy, but on this day he made me proud by staying out in the garden until we had to go to the vets. I believe he knew this was the end and he took in every bit of scenery as if it was his last. Were totally heart broken but so proud of our boy. RIP baby boy, you will always be loved and never forgotten. I advise you all to cherish your fur babies and make many memories as life is too short. Thanks to all of you that offered advice on Miller. It helped so much that we wasnt alone on this journey


Oh Caroline, I'm so sad to hear about Miller. Remember he had a lovely life with you and your family. You did everything you could for him and he will now be at peace. Although my lot with their problems can drive me mad at times, I wouldnt be without any of them. RIP now dear Miller XX


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## Caroline Linton

Thanks for your lovely messages! Life is very different without Miller. I know hes at peace and not suffering, but as you will know its very hard to deal with. Everyday has past in a blur and we are struggling at times. The good times will always be with us, and i have ordered a lovely personalised book so that we can put in many happy pictures we have taken over the years. The one thing that has kept me bright spirits is that there has been 2 robins on his favourite pile of slabs in the garden. Every morning and night i go out and speak to him as if hes there. Not sure if my neighbours think i have gone completely insane but its working for me right now with my healing. Tonight was hard coming home from work and Miller wasnt waiting for his usual walk in the garden which has been our thing for many years. Im sure if he could come for visits he would be walking with me by my side. Take care everyone and i will keep visiting to see how everyone and their babies are doing. Its just hard right now to be on here .
All my love, Caroline


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## SbanR

Please take care @Caroline Linton . Xx


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## jenny armour

Chin up Caroline Linton xx


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## Caroline Linton

Hi everyone, how ru and ur fur babies doing? I have some news....my hubbys best mate (who knew we was struggling with Miller) knew we had said no more pets due to the loss of Miller and how badly we took it. We was both very happy having no more. Monday night, his mate turned up with a tiny 8wk ball of fluff for us. At first we sort of panicked and said nope, its not staying with us. We had a few tears but eventually gave in after having cuddles. Meet Luna, shes cute, lively and has helped us heal more than i ever thought she could. She makes everyday more bearable and im sure Miller has been visiting and passing on his habbits as Luna is doing things that Miller would do. For example, huffing and puffing when not getting her own way, ways that she interacts with us as in a way Miller would. Maybe its all in our head but its comforting. Below is a pic of Millers memorial, which has given me a daily focus before we got Luna. Saves me talking to the robins etc in the garden like a right looney haha


----------



## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> Hi everyone, how ru and ur fur babies doing? I have some news....my hubbys best mate (who knew we was struggling with Miller) knew we had said no more pets due to the loss of Miller and how badly we took it. We was both very happy having no more. Monday night, his mate turned up with a tiny 8wk ball of fluff for us. At first we sort of panicked and said nope, its not staying with us. We had a few tears but eventually gave in after having cuddles. Meet Luna, shes cute, lively and has helped us heal more than i ever thought she could. She makes everyday more bearable and im sure Miller has been visiting and passing on his habbits as Luna is doing things that Miller would do. For example, huffing and puffing when not getting her own way, ways that she interacts with us as in a way Miller would. Maybe its all in our head but its comforting. BOh a elow is a pic of Millers memorial, which has given me a daily focus before we got Luna. Saves me talking to the robins etc in the garden like a right looney haha
> View attachment 479451
> View attachment 479450


I'm definitely convinced Miller sent her to you, cats have a habit of doing things like this. Oh a naughty tortie oh yes they can have a mind of their own lol. What a lovely friend to do this for you and your hubby


----------



## TriTri

Caroline Linton said:


> Hi everyone, how ru and ur fur babies doing? I have some news....my hubbys best mate (who knew we was struggling with Miller) knew we had said no more pets due to the loss of Miller and how badly we took it. We was both very happy having no more. Monday night, his mate turned up with a tiny 8wk ball of fluff for us. At first we sort of panicked and said nope, its not staying with us. We had a few tears but eventually gave in after having cuddles. Meet Luna, shes cute, lively and has helped us heal more than i ever thought she could. She makes everyday more bearable and im sure Miller has been visiting and passing on his habbits as Luna is doing things that Miller would do. For example, huffing and puffing when not getting her own way, ways that she interacts with us as in a way Miller would. Maybe its all in our head but its comforting. Below is a pic of Millers memorial, which has given me a daily focus before we got Luna. Saves me talking to the robins etc in the garden like a right looney haha
> View attachment 479451
> View attachment 479450


It was lovely to hear about the robins and even lovelier to hear about and meet gorgeous Luna! Congratulations. This picture seems fitting for you xx


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## Caroline Linton

TriTri said:


> It was lovely to hear about the robins and even lovelier to hear about and meet gorgeous Luna! Congratulations. This picture seems fitting for you xx
> View attachment 479542


So true! i believe miller would approve of Luna too. So alike at times, only difference is that Miller was a daddys boy and Luna is a mummys girl. My sad days are full of love with luna distracting me. Shes a blessing x


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## Caroline Linton

@jenny armour & @TriTri 
This is my normal bedtime routine, how cute ♡ x


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## TriTri

Caroline Linton said:


> @jenny armour & @TriTri
> This is my normal bedtime routine, how cute ♡ x
> View attachment 479544
> View attachment 479545


Yep, you're stuck there for the night now, as I am now with my dear cat Max. I love calico cats and both I had were very sweet cats. I suspect Luna is too. She is super cute.


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## jenny armour

Oh what a cutie and arent they timewasters, but worth it x


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## jenny armour

It is with deep regret that I have to inform everyone that JJ passed away this evening.
It was a year ago yesterday that he was diagnosed with Gastrointestinal Lymphoma and also secondary Pancreatitis.
The vet had said he would have a year to 18 months diagnosis.
JJ has spent this year pretty well his usual self and even put on weight and I even managed to stop the diarrhea .
Over the past couple of months I noticed he was losing weight and he did have a upset tummy, so his steroids were put up to one tablet a day for a couple of weeks until it was rectified, but the weigh still dropped.
On Tuesday I took to the vets and as the vet was worried about the weight loss, he took some bloods. The result came back later that day saying his kidneys were Grade 4, possibly the lymphoma could have spread to the kidneys.
I had made an appointment yesterday to have him pts as it was a case of time, but Wednesday he seemed to have perked up so I cancelled.
This morning he wasnt so good and in the afternoon I thought if he wanted some Felix then he could have it and he ate heartedly, but within minutes he sicked it back up again. He then went into the cat pen to do a poo and he was having so much going, he was so constipated. So I phoned the vet because he was in so much pain.
I knew I wouldnt be brining him home, he was very uncomfortable and the vet said the constipation would have been because he was so dehydrated.
He is now out of pain and has joined his pals over rainbow bridge. RIP my darling JJ 7.5.09-16.12.21


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## TriTri

jenny armour said:


> It is with deep regret that I have to inform everyone that JJ passed away this evening.
> It was a year ago yesterday that he was diagnosed with Gastrointestinal Lymphoma and also secondary Pancreatitis.
> The vet had said he would have a year to 18 months diagnosis.
> JJ has spent this year pretty well his usual self and even put on weight and I even managed to stop the diarrhea .
> Over the past couple of months I noticed he was losing weight and he did have a upset tummy, so his steroids were put up to one tablet a day for a couple of weeks until it was rectified, but the weigh still dropped.
> On Tuesday I took to the vets and as the vet was worried about the weight loss, he took some bloods. The result came back later that day saying his kidneys were Grade 4, possibly the lymphoma could have spread to the kidneys.
> I had made an appointment yesterday to have him pts as it was a case of time, but Wednesday he seemed to have perked up so I cancelled.
> This morning he wasnt so good and in the afternoon I thought if he wanted some Felix then he could have it and he ate heartedly, but within minutes he sicked it back up again. He then went into the cat pen to do a poo and he was having so much going, he was so constipated. So I phoned the vet because he was in so much pain.
> I knew I wouldnt be brining him home, he was very uncomfortable and the vet said the constipation would have been because he was so dehydrated.
> He is now out of pain and has joined his pals over rainbow bridge. RIP my darling JJ 7.5.09-16.12.21
> View attachment 480529


I'm so sorry for your loss @jenny armour. With all you did for JJ, he did amazingly well. The time was right. Beautiful boy. R.I.P dear JJ xxx


----------



## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> It is with deep regret that I have to inform everyone that JJ passed away this evening.
> It was a year ago yesterday that he was diagnosed with Gastrointestinal Lymphoma and also secondary Pancreatitis.
> The vet had said he would have a year to 18 months diagnosis.
> JJ has spent this year pretty well his usual self and even put on weight and I even managed to stop the diarrhea .
> Over the past couple of months I noticed he was losing weight and he did have a upset tummy, so his steroids were put up to one tablet a day for a couple of weeks until it was rectified, but the weigh still dropped.
> On Tuesday I took to the vets and as the vet was worried about the weight loss, he took some bloods. The result came back later that day saying his kidneys were Grade 4, possibly the lymphoma could have spread to the kidneys.
> I had made an appointment yesterday to have him pts as it was a case of time, but Wednesday he seemed to have perked up so I cancelled.
> This morning he wasnt so good and in the afternoon I thought if he wanted some Felix then he could have it and he ate heartedly, but within minutes he sicked it back up again. He then went into the cat pen to do a poo and he was having so much going, he was so constipated. So I phoned the vet because he was in so much pain.
> I knew I wouldnt be brining him home, he was very uncomfortable and the vet said the constipation would have been because he was so dehydrated.
> He is now out of pain and has joined his pals over rainbow bridge. RIP my darling JJ 7.5.09-16.12.21
> View attachment 480529


How heart breaking! Sending you hugs at this sad time. You did the best for your boy and he will appreciate everything you did for him. No more suffering and pain for him, but its a hard time for his loved ones. Remember all the good times and cherish his memories. RIP JJ, you were so brave and fought so hard. Sleep tight xx


----------



## jenny armour

Caroline Linton said:


> How heart breaking! Sending you hugs at this sad time. You did the best for your boy and he will appreciate everything you did for him. No more suffering and pain for him, but its a hard time for his loved ones. Remember all the good times and cherish his memories. RIP JJ, you were so brave and fought so hard. Sleep tight xx


Thank you Caroline, I know I did the right thing for him. He came home from the vets on Thursday and is now packed up to go to his new home in Norfolk xx


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## jenny armour

Forgot to mention, I had a message on Facebook from his breeder, saying he had the best home, very touching xx


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## Naomi23949

My cat has been suffering with vomiting, diarrhoea and quite sore bum recently which the emergency vet says all his symptoms point towards IBD which I had originally looked at anyway. She has recommended Purina HA dry food and he needs a hypoallergenic wet food. Looking for recommendations on good hypoallergenic wet foods, preferably jelly based as he likes that and not much of a fan on gravy based foods


----------



## Caroline Linton

Naomi23949 said:


> My cat has been suffering with vomiting, diarrhoea and quite sore bum recently which the emergency vet says all his symptoms point towards IBD which I had originally looked at anyway. She has recommended Purina HA dry food and he needs a hypoallergenic wet food. Looking for recommendations on good hypoallergenic wet foods, preferably jelly based as he likes that and not much of a fan on gravy based foods


Im afraid i cant offer much assistance with the food as my late fussy boy wouldnt eat any of them, and believe me i had every food i could find online and in the shops. How is your cat coping with the new diet?


----------



## Caroline Linton

jenny armour said:


> Forgot to mention, I had a message on Facebook from his breeder, saying he had the best home, very touching xx


That just goes to show how loving you are to your furbabies. Even the breeder knows it! What a lovely message


----------



## TatiLie

Somehow I got this update by email and I thought it was a good opportunity to say that Ari, after 11y with IBD, is off her meds since the end of last year and has not had one flare up since. She is still on the gastroinstestinal food and has boiled chicken twice daily. Even the addition of a new cat (they are still social distancing and he is FIV positive) has not caused her to have a relapse


----------



## Miggins

Hi

New to forum and desperate for any help/advice anyone can give.

My cat Dusty is a 3 yr old, neutered , female moggy.

End of December she started to vomit( wasn't overly concerned as she had done this before due to wolfing down her food and bringing it straight back up .Due to this I switched her to gourmet with gravy around July '21 as the AGAIL was in jelly so she couldn't eat the gravy one as fast iyswim)

Took her to vet 29th December and she was given prevomax which worked amazingly well and all was well for a few days.
Vomiting started again on 3rd Jan so back to vet, another prevomax and all well for a few days then vomiting started again.

Around mid January was advised that it cld be IBD and we started Dusty on Hills prescription I/d, wld not touch it. 
She is a v fussy


----------



## Thomsonlee

Miggins said:


> Hi
> 
> New to forum and desperate for any help/advice anyone can give.
> 
> My cat Dusty is a 3 yr old, neutered , female moggy.
> 
> End of December she started to vomit( wasn't overly concerned as she had done this before due to wolfing down her food and bringing it straight back up .Due to this I switched her to gourmet with gravy around July '21 as the AGAIL was in jelly so she couldn't eat the gravy one as fast iyswim)
> 
> Took her to vet 29th December and she was given prevomax which worked amazingly well and all was well for a few days.
> Vomiting started again on 3rd Jan so back to vet, another prevomax and all well for a few days then vomiting started again.
> 
> Around mid January was advised that it cld be IBD and we started Dusty on Hills prescription I/d, wld not touch it.
> She is a v fussy


My cat stayed in hospital before. Vet performed blood test/ Ultrasound to determine he is IBD. Then, he is on Hills prescription z/d food sensitivities either can or dry food or mixed. 
Also, I started to give him four meals per day by dividing the day required qty. If he has vomited, I will give him medications for one week and usually it works well. If not, I bring him to the vet. By the way, I also start giving him digestive enzymes and probiotics supplements to improve his digestive system.


----------



## Miggins

Sorry, hit "post" in error! 

She is a v fussy eater, and won't eat dry other than the i/d as a Dreamie type treat.

I have tried I/d wet, katkins, lily's kitchen, encore, and quite a few others. All mixed a little at a time with her other foods to transition her over, but she refused all point blank so haven't been able to get going with any sort of elimination diet so far. 

She had bloods and ultrasound done around this time too. Bloods all came back fine. Only thing that showed on her ultrasound was some thickening of the gut/stomach so went with the IBD diagnosis and was given ranitidine.

Put her on to the duck and lamb flavours of the gourmet ( though am aware they will have Lord knows what protein in them) as this seemed to settle things down ( turkey flavour definitely caused vomiting as only " elimination " I have remotely bn able to attempt is with different flavours of the gourmet) and she was fine for 5/6 weeks. 

3 wks ago the vomiting started back up. Went through the same prevomax , fine for a few days, then vomiting again. 

Vet then gave her an injection of dexadreson along with the prevomax but again vomiting after a few days. She has also been given prednicare tablets and been changed to famotidine, no change.

Fast forward to this week and she was at vet on Monday, had a prevomax and all fine until vomiting today again, have vet at 2.45.

The breaks between vomiting has definitely shortened to around 3/4 days in between from around 5, though I do have another cat and its so difficult to try keep her from stealing his food. I have mobility issues due to an accident so she is most definitely quicker getting to his food than me , and she has got his food this week. Not much of it, but it's only a different flavour of gourmet ( not the dreaded turkey!) and tbh I don't think that caused the vomiting, was purely coincidental as she vomits anyway it seems.

She is booked in for biopsies next Thursday, they weren't so keen on doing these at 1st but feel they need to now. 
She was to be referred to Dick vet, Edinburgh, but vet can do them at their own surgery now which thankfully will save time.
She is 4.5kg and has not lost any weight, is mostly fine within herself but at times a bit off, no diarrhoea whatsoever and only off her food maybe the night before the vomiting starts.

I have read re intestinal lymphoma and am terrified that this is what it may be. I only had my therapy dog PTS 4 months ago after having her 9 years and truly can't bear the thought of losing my baby, but can't watch her suffer this dreadful vomiting and the stress of the vet visits. I am heartbroken for her as she is the most gentle, loving wee thing and my whole world. 

I am sorry as I'm aware that I'm rambling but any help or advice anyone is able to share would truly be more than welcome. Am at my wits end.

Thank you in advance 
K xx


----------



## Miggins

Miggins said:


> Sorry, hit "post" in error!
> 
> She is a v fussy eater, and won't eat dry other than the i/d as a Dreamie type treat.
> 
> I have tried I/d wet, katkins, lily's kitchen, encore, and quite a few others. All mixed a little at a time with her other foods to transition her over, but she refused all point blank so haven't been able to get going with any sort of elimination diet so far.
> 
> She had bloods and ultrasound done around this time too. Bloods all came back fine. Only thing that showed on her ultrasound was some thickening of the gut/stomach so went with the IBD diagnosis and was given ranitidine.
> 
> Put her on to the duck and lamb flavours of the gourmet ( though am aware they will have Lord knows what protein in them) as this seemed to settle things down ( turkey flavour definitely caused vomiting as only " elimination " I have remotely bn able to attempt is with different flavours of the gourmet) and she was fine for 5/6 weeks.
> 
> 3 wks ago the vomiting started back up. Went through the same prevomax , fine for a few days, then vomiting again.
> 
> Vet then gave her an injection of dexadreson along with the prevomax but again vomiting after a few days. She has also been given prednicare tablets and been changed to famotidine, no change.
> 
> Fast forward to this week and she was at vet on Monday, had a prevomax and all fine until vomiting today again, have vet at 2.45.
> 
> The breaks between vomiting has definitely shortened to around 3/4 days in between from around 5, though I do have another cat and its so difficult to try keep her from stealing his food. I have mobility issues due to an accident so she is most definitely quicker getting to his food than me , and she has got his food this week. Not much of it, but it's only a different flavour of gourmet ( not the dreaded turkey!) and tbh I don't think that caused the vomiting, was purely coincidental as she vomits anyway it seems.
> 
> She is booked in for biopsies next Thursday, they weren't so keen on doing these at 1st but feel they need to now.
> She was to be referred to Dick vet, Edinburgh, but vet can do them at their own surgery now which thankfully will save time.
> She is 4.5kg and has not lost any weight, is mostly fine within herself but at times a bit off, no diarrhoea whatsoever and only off her food maybe the night before the vomiting starts.
> 
> I have read re intestinal lymphoma and am terrified that this is what it may be. I only had my therapy dog PTS 4 months ago after having her 9 years and truly can't bear the thought of losing my baby, but can't watch her suffer this dreadful vomiting and the stress of the vet visits. I am heartbroken for her as she is the most gentle, loving wee thing and my whole world.
> 
> I am sorry as I'm aware that I'm rambling but any help or advice anyone is able to share would truly be more than welcome. Am at my wits end.
> 
> Thank you in advance
> K xx


Sorry, Dusty is fed around 5 small meals a day


----------



## Thomsonlee

Miggins said:


> Sorry, hit "post" in error!
> 
> She is a v fussy eater, and won't eat dry other than the i/d as a Dreamie type treat.
> 
> I have tried I/d wet, katkins, lily's kitchen, encore, and quite a few others. All mixed a little at a time with her other foods to transition her over, but she refused all point blank so haven't been able to get going with any sort of elimination diet so far.
> 
> She had bloods and ultrasound done around this time too. Bloods all came back fine. Only thing that showed on her ultrasound was some thickening of the gut/stomach so went with the IBD diagnosis and was given ranitidine.
> 
> Put her on to the duck and lamb flavours of the gourmet ( though am aware they will have Lord knows what protein in them) as this seemed to settle things down ( turkey flavour definitely caused vomiting as only " elimination " I have remotely bn able to attempt is with different flavours of the gourmet) and she was fine for 5/6 weeks.
> 
> 3 wks ago the vomiting started back up. Went through the same prevomax , fine for a few days, then vomiting again.
> 
> Vet then gave her an injection of dexadreson along with the prevomax but again vomiting after a few days. She has also been given prednicare tablets and been changed to famotidine, no change.
> 
> Fast forward to this week and she was at vet on Monday, had a prevomax and all fine until vomiting today again, have vet at 2.45.
> 
> The breaks between vomiting has definitely shortened to around 3/4 days in between from around 5, though I do have another cat and its so difficult to try keep her from stealing his food. I have mobility issues due to an accident so she is most definitely quicker getting to his food than me , and she has got his food this week. Not much of it, but it's only a different flavour of gourmet ( not the dreaded turkey!) and tbh I don't think that caused the vomiting, was purely coincidental as she vomits anyway it seems.
> 
> She is booked in for biopsies next Thursday, they weren't so keen on doing these at 1st but feel they need to now.
> She was to be referred to Dick vet, Edinburgh, but vet can do them at their own surgery now which thankfully will save time.
> She is 4.5kg and has not lost any weight, is mostly fine within herself but at times a bit off, no diarrhoea whatsoever and only off her food maybe the night before the vomiting starts.
> 
> I have read re intestinal lymphoma and am terrified that this is what it may be. I only had my therapy dog PTS 4 months ago after having her 9 years and truly can't bear the thought of losing my baby, but can't watch her suffer this dreadful vomiting and the stress of the vet visits. I am heartbroken for her as she is the most gentle, loving wee thing and my whole world.
> 
> I am sorry as I'm aware that I'm rambling but any help or advice anyone is able to share would truly be more than welcome. Am at my wits end.
> 
> Thank you in advance
> K xx


Miggins,
The root cause of IBD need to identify but it is difficult 
a) Food sensitivities 
b) gut has infection 
c) Cancer 
d) others

Anyway, I have gone through the most difficult time. Finally, he has heart problem being identified and may cause IBD

hope your pet can recover soon.

Thomson


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## Miggins

Thomsonlee said:


> Miggins,
> The root cause of IBD need to identify but it is difficult
> a) Food sensitivities
> b) gut has infection
> c) Cancer
> d) others
> 
> Anyway, I have gone through the most difficult time. Finally, he has heart problem being identified and may cause IBD
> 
> hope your pet can recover soon.
> 
> Thomson


Hi

Thank you for your reply, hoping the biopsies will be helpful.


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## Hazel Zebulon

IBD, Steroids, Diet etc

tl/dr - is it possible that my cat's IBD and inability to absorb nutrients from their food properly means she also can't absorb the steroids in her food too? How long did your cat need preds twice a day for before achieving a degree of equilibrium and when did they start working for them?

If she can not absorb b12 from her food, how can she absorb it from a supplement? If she continues to be unable to absorb it from her food or supplements, will she need weekly B12 injections for the rest of her life?

Is it possible for a cat to be allergic to hypoallergenic/hydrolized protein food?

Is there any hope, or is she destined to suffer constant diarrhea for the rest of her life and I - destined to be on clean up duty for the foreseeable?

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After going through the remit of anti parasitics, antibiotics, kaogel, a transition over to Royal Canin Gastrointestinal, and most recently - a complete battery of tests and ultrasounds, my cat Chou (2 years old) was finally diagnosed with IBD the other week. 

The vet thinks that she caught e.coli last year (probably from her favourite activity of bluebottle catching and munching) and that it severely damaged her intestines, which lead to her having a cytokine storm in April, now resulting in very low folate and B12 levels and it has likely permanently wiped out villi. 

She was prescribed preds twice a day and B12 injections once a week, plus cobalaplex and fortiflora supplements every other day and to transition over to Purina Veterinary Hypoallergenic food. We're currently on 80% Purina Veterinary hypoallergenic food and 20% Royal Canin Gastro.

She's been on the steroids for 6 days - crushed into 2 kibbles of wet almo nature sensitive twice a day (the vet suggested that this tiny amount of wet food won't impact the general state of squit) and she has had 2 B12 injections - the first when she was initially diagnosed. She then had a 10 day gap where she was on synulox (with no improvement in symptoms) before the next one - last Monday. We're booked for another tomorrow.

She's lost a lot of weight despite eating and drinking well and only weighs 2.5kg. The amount of mucus, blood streaks and accidents out of the litter box have come down somewhat, and we had one whole day 3 days ago with no accidents and no blood! Hooray! 3 days ago it turns out is a long time in Cat IBD. The food runs through her system so fast (literally in the space of 1 hour 15mins of eating her steroid last night, I saw the damn undigested almo kibbles in the 'accident' on the floor) that I worry because she's unable to absorb nutrients from her food properly, that maybe it's possible she's unable to absorb the steroids too? Or is that not how they work? We tried a tiny amount of novel protein a few days and that came out the other end sharpish breaking the no accidents outside of the litter box joyful blip. 

The vet said that it takes about 6 days before the steroids start to work properly, but hubris is a fickle mistress and on Day 6 aka today we've had frequent accidents and sudden sharts and sometimes the poor soss just sits there in it and I have to literally get her to stand up so I can clean her tail and the mess from under her.

It feels like an endless cycle of antibacterial spray, tissues, baby wipes, newspaper sheets and litter box cleaning and I suppose I'm looking for a spark of light at the end of the tunnel. She's been ill since April - I didn't know it for the first couple of weeks and was just confused as to why she was going to the toilet in the garden in front of me when she'd never done so before, let alone so publicly - now I know it was her way of showing me she was unwell. I've kept her indoors for a solid 4 weeks now in order to keep an eye on her... movements if you will and at the beginning to make sure she wasn't eating anything she shouldn't like toxic plants. 

Dealing with flare ups is one thing, but she hasn't even reached a stage of relative normality as a baseline for a flare up yet - it's just been one big long flare.


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## huckybuck

Ok firstly has she had stool tests to confirm the E. coli and has she had the specific ABs to treat it? My cat had campylobacter for years with recurrent dire rear/sickness bouts. It was only after requesting specific stool tests and then specific ABS to target the campylobacter that it cleared up. 

My other cat was diagnosed with IBD. He used to be very sick and stop eating and would need frequent rehydration.

He was prescribed a hypoallergenic diet which didn’t work. We did use a synbiotic (pre and pro) and ranitadine when he was having a bout of it. We did eventually discover his trigger was tuna and prawn cat food. Along with hair balls.

We gave him HPM Virbac Gastro food as he’d lost so much weight. But once we discovered his triggers we were able to go back to canagan and he’s been absolutely fine.

Good luck with your cat x


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## Hazel Zebulon

Thank you x 



huckybuck said:


> Ok firstly has she had stool tests to confirm the E. coli and has she had the specific ABs to treat it?


It was last summer when she supposedly had it. It cleared up after a course of antibiotics. Her current tests are showing no virus, evil bacterias or parasites, no giardia - nothing.

She's eating and drinking very well - not as much food as she used to, but she's definitely drinking plenty to replace the fluids lost. Urine tests were fine too.

At the beginning, the vet recommended Royal Canin Gastro food and she did pretty well on that for a few weeks, then all of a sudden - back to explosive diarrhea. So as they recommended, I then started to introduce the hypoallergenic one little by little because when she first tried them they came out the other end almost intact poor thing.

The vet initially suggested that I avoid chicken as after the e coli bout last year, she'd been on plain chicken and purina bifensis sensitive for months only and it seemed to suit her fine... until April when the vet thinks she developed a spontaneous allergy to it. Tried turkey -no good, tuna was fine for a while - then not...

I know they say you should give 6 weeks before you expect anything from a new cat food, but I hate the idea of giving her a food that is supposed to be safe, but may well be causing her harm by accident and then stretching out the 'experiment' hurting her for so long as we wait and see if it takes - it seems so unfair to her when she's already struggling you know?


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## Perdie

Hi I had a similar problem with my elderly ragdoll, tried all the prescription diets etc ,and an you believe it , the only thing that has worked is feeding raw mincemeat, she also has cooked fish and cooked chicken, but I don't feed wet cat food any more, an experienced breeder recoendded this diet, but I was hesitant at first! She also has a supplement to make up for any lacking vits or mins.shes gained weight & no more runny poo!!!


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