# Border Collie as a first dog.



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello all,

A few weeks ago, when working with my brother, I met a Border Collie that really got me thinking that I would really enjoy having one myself.

Although I've never had a dog, I'm self-employed working from home and very active so I know I could give it a happy home and life. 

I've now even taken to stalking people who are walking Border Collies to strike up a conversation about their dogs. And it's just Border Collies, I think I fell in love with their eyes which really stare at you, working stuff out.

So, after weeks of research, I do understand their needs and that is what interests me about them. 

Given all of the above, would it be irresponsible to take in a dog that, in all probability, would be brighter than me?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hello all,
> 
> A few weeks ago, when working with my brother, I met a Border Collie that really got me thinking that I would really enjoy having one myself.
> 
> ...


If you're intelligent enough to ask that, there shouldn't be a problem. Your lifestyle sounds ideal for a collie. It's not the best breed for a first dog though, make mistakes and they will remember more than most other breeds. You would need to go to training classes to learn how best to pick up the dog's signals to you. Would you consider a similar but less demanding breed? Welsh Sheepdogs, English Shepherds are much less hyper and don't have the neurotic edge that many BCs have. If you go for a BC, don't get one from the farm gate, but a home-bred show line or pet line rather than working - they should be calmer (but not guarenteed)!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

They are high energy dogs as you probably already know from your research and very trainable if you put in the time for exercise and training. As long as you are prepared to do both and as you say you work from home so the dogs not going to be left alone for extended periods then it should I think be fine.

Border collie trust GB Border Collie Trust GB rehome border collies throughout the U.K. and give advice. They also do a border collie world quarterly magazine you can subscribe to for £10.00 a year proceeds of which go to the trust to help collies in need.


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## 12jane (Jan 3, 2010)

Perhaps get an older rescue at first? Do you have any experience with dogs?


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I think if you did heaps of research, and were able to possibly spend some time around the breed then yes it would be ok.

Its those people that go ''ohh theyr cute'' and just go and get one with no research at all that have the problems.

You need to make sure you are going to be able to keep his mind busy, much more at first because pups cant walk as far, so games, searching, tricks etc. Then something like agility when he is over a year.
A bored collie is a problem they get distructive and noisy, some even aggressive.... my aunt had a collie with no research she ended up getting pts a few years later because she was not exercised anywhere near enough and she broke out and killed all the chickens and bit anyone who tried to stop her having fun.


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## kazzy (Oct 13, 2010)

I have a BC nearly 5 months old and wouldn't swap him for the world now.

Let me explain my daughter (17 yr old) has always wanted a BC, however i wanted a golden retriever/lab. I was waiting for one (Dec). However my daughter came across a litter of BC's and begged me to go and see them, anyway fell in-love with them and chose a boy (sep). 2 weeks later we had Noah.

Like you i am a 1st dog owner and had done lots of homework on the breed, but my daughter convinced me she would do most of the walking/feeding/training. Well it hasn't worked out that way. I was the one getting up in the nite (says she couldn't hear him). Not keen on taking him to the park on her own (but when asked to come with me she says its too early).

Anyway RANT OVER........


It has been hard work, but your going to get that with any puppy.

They are a bright breed but as long a you are consistent in your approach you will be fine. It sounds like you have a good home life to provide a BC and as long as you have time to do a few 5 mins training everyday you will be fine.

BC do have there little quirks (especially chasing things) but as long a you provide an outlet for them they can be fine. My pup quickly caught on to clicker training and I use a whistle for recall (which works pretty well) as long as you treat every time as they quickly look for it lol. I have met lots of BC since getting Noah and other owners haven't had problems. If they don't get enough exercise then they can be a bit hyper, but if you provide walks with training then there fine. Mine usually has a couple of short walks and one big walk off lead either with a ball or frisbee and some training. 

As i say i couldn't imagine life without Noah now, I love him to pieces.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Keep me posted............


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you for your responses.

No, I don't have any experience of owning dogs so I'm doing things very slowly at the moment. I went out with a friend a couple of weeks back and took the dog on a lead for twenty minutes.

I've also been to a re-homing dog trust to introduce myself and will go back soon to hopefully take a Border Collie they have out for a walk as much as possible.

I've bought and read books, I've looked at YouTube videos of Ian Dunbar working with dogs and, for the first time ever, I walked down the pet section of a supermarket a few weeks back. I also have a name for him....Percy.

Me and Percy are going to have some adventures.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

One more piece of advece...

Don't get a puppy from working parents! The fully working ones are more likely to be harder work.


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## morsel (Dec 22, 2010)

My first dog was a border collie. I don't think you need experience just plenty of exercise and consistency in disipline and training. Be in charge of play and demand high standards of behaviour and your collie will be as lovely as mine.


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## morsel (Dec 22, 2010)

PoisonGirl said:


> One more piece of advece...
> 
> Don't get a puppy from working parents! The fully working ones are more likely to be harder work.


Mine is from working parents. She isn't difficult at all.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

PoisonGirl said:


> One more piece of advece...
> 
> Don't get a puppy from working parents! The fully working ones are more likely to be harder work.


I'll second that. If you are intent on having a Border Collie as a first dog, do your research and go for show, obedience or agility bred lines.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

I have two BC's from working parents , the first (Toffee) is the laziest , laid back dog you'd ever meet , absolutely no drive whatsoever ... the second (Gypsy) is Hyperactive, on the go 24/7 , constantly wanting a job to do 

Our third dog Teddy was a rescue so not sure of his parentage , he's just ball obsessed


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Collies can make wonderful companions but they pick up bad habits as fast as they learn the good ones so consistent training is important. Seeing as you have not had a dog before do you realise how much of a tie they can be at times? What about holidays or days out, the dog needs to be factored into the equation. When you don't feel up to walking them or are short of time they still have to go regardless. They are creatures of habit and love routine. Find out as much as you can and then some before making a decision. It's a pity you can't perhaps look after one for a weekend as a sort of trial run to see how you go with someone near to at the end of the phone to help with any snags you encounter.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I think you sound an ideal dog owner  and as you are active, I think a collie would fit in well! I dog sit/walk one, he is a 'free to good home' from farm dog, and he is perfect, yes he has a lot of energy, but as long as he gets to run everyday (with a tennis ball) he is fine


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

Boomer was my 1st dog, I got him from a rescue when he was 6 months old, that was nearly 15 years ago, I now have 5 BC's, Boomer (15.5 years old), Bertie (12.5 years old), Teagan (9.5 years old), Skye (will be 5 years old in a couple of weeks) and Star (nearly 9 months old), I compete at agility (Skye has qualified for Crufts in March) and have my 1st flyball comp in a month. As long as you are prepared to go to classes and put in the effort to train a BC, 1 would suit your lifestyle. I would go for show lines, although that is no guarantee, but in general they are calmer and not so needy.

Here's my 5 taken the other day.


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

i'm very biased obviously - i have two of them and want to breed, however i have this to say -
Border collies are THE most intelligent dog - Some are manic, some the picture of serenity; but all are incredibly intelligent and faithful dogs who you will never be bored with being around.
They are also very high energy; they go 8 hours in a field most days as working dogs, always busy defending the farm and on hand to help with any task. 
If you fail to fulfill them in some way - ie a job where they have to think; then you do so at your own peril - a hyper border collie can headbutt you, scratch, make a hell of a lot of noise and cause a lot of destruction.
I love my collies - people stop to take photos of us - and that's not down to me i'm no jonny depp. I read somewhere that collie might have meant "useful" in olde celt tongue


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Thank you for your responses.
> 
> No, I don't have any experience of owning dogs so I'm doing things very slowly at the moment. I went out with a friend a couple of weeks back and took the dog on a lead for twenty minutes.
> 
> ...


You sound like the perfect owner for a collie, i dont go with the "first time dog owner" shouldnt have a high drive dog, you could have been a dog owner for years and still not be the right person for one. Go ahead and enjoy.:thumbup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

You sound like an ideal owner. Put the work in with training and something like obedience or agility and you'll have a wonderful dog. I would go for show or sporting lines though rather than farm-bred. It's not a guarantee they'll be calmer but it might help


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you very much for the encouraging comments. I fully understand the needs of this type of dog and that's what has drawn me to it. 

The one I met a few weeks back, the one that set this whole thing off, was a Blue Merle that had one blue eye and one green eye. I spent a day off helping my brother with a job on site, and Simba came belting out of the house we were working at. 

I told him to sit....and he sat...and he looked at me, kind of hypnotised me by staring at me with his amazing eyes. He then shot off like a rocket ship hoping for some play-time....unfortunately we had to work......so he contended himself by bringing us his owners' socks in the hope this would interest us.

It was on the way home that I suddenly thought I'm in a good position now to give a dog a good life, and the Border Collie just seems to be the right kind.

Blimey, I even get butterflies thinking about it.


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## spacekadet (Jan 2, 2011)

Do it! I adopted a rescue border collie 4 months ago and it's one of the best things I ever did. I work from home, live on a farm, love to walk - a border collie felt right. Be prepared to put in more time than you expect. I probably spend about 1.5 walking the dog (with a ball or frisbee), and maybe 30-60 mins total obedience training every day (I split it up throughout the day). It's totally worth it though. We're still working through the kinks - he's a rescue so a little bonkers with certain things. But like everyone else has said, these are smart dogs and Jay always amazes me by how quickly he learns. Having said all that, I am breaking out the champagne on the day Jay finally doesn't pull on the lead. =)

Nice to find so many other BC owners in reading this thread!

Monica


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Other types of collie are available. 

We had a smooth collie as a family pet while I was growing up, you get all that lovely collie-ness with a smooth but the are less high-maintainance... note the LESS - they are still a collie!!

I think they are better looking than borders as well - but I'm completely biased. 

smooth collie - Google Search

Smooth Collie Club of Great Britain


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Thank you for your responses.
> 
> No, I don't have any experience of owning dogs so I'm doing things very slowly at the moment. I went out with a friend a couple of weeks back and took the dog on a lead for twenty minutes.
> 
> ...


Just reading this post I feel excited for you..So is percy a Dog that you could potentially re-home? They are lovely Dogs very loyal and Faithful..please keep us updated


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## MissBexi (Dec 27, 2009)

With enough research and serious consideration you could probably be fine with a collie. I personally would of had a BC first as they are quite powerful dogs, I'm only lil lol. My Beddies can be a handful at times lol. I look after two collies whilst their owners are away and whilst they can be a handful they have a fantastic temperment and I've never heard of any problems with them, apart from Mac, he was a rescue and chewed a lot at first, but they are gorgeous.
Good Luck, hope you find one cause they are lovely dogs.:thumbup:


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## christie12 (Sep 18, 2010)

i dont think you will regret getting a border collie, mine is nearly 13 years now and i have never had a days trouble from her she is good as gold. you only have to show her once and thats it she knows :thumbup:


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

If Percy has a fraction of the brains of this fella, I'd be happy.

YouTube - Dazzle's Dazzling Tricks


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Well done for giving it so much thought.
Something everybody should do whatever breed theyare considering.

Obviously a working dog could make a few more demands but if you do your homework and feel confident, then go for it.
Be as thoughtful over your choice of dog too.

You could always go for a collie x. My last dog was a collie x lab. Looked more like collie but perhaps the lab added a bit of chill.

The BIGGEST thing if you run into problems, is look to yourself and what you are doing wrong and not blame the dog.

I chose a smaller dog this time but knew a terrier would be a challenge. Did loads of research and got lots of help here but if I was having problems used distraction until I could find out what I was doing wrong - and it was always me misreading my dog. 

You can read and research as much as you like but you have to get to know your dog.

Good luck with your decision - it was the best one I ever made. She brings joy to my life every day.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Go for it!

Just make sure you do plenty of research first, and as others have said, don't get one from working parents. 

We've had our BC pup Scout since last June, he is 8 months old now. We did a heck of a lot of research before we got him, and thus far, he's been a joy to own. I am already planning my number two BC for next year!

They are an amazing breed, you'll have lots of fun with Percy!


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Just reading this post I feel excited for you..*So is percy a Dog that you could potentially re-home*? They are lovely Dogs very loyal and Faithful..please keep us updated


Hello, yes I'm looking at re-homing as my best option and there is a border collie at the Bluecross in Oxfordshire at the moment, and he looks like a good possibility.

I'm now looking at insurance. I remember some posters on here mentioned Argos a while back as being good so I've got a quote from them.

The quote came to £15 pounds a month which seems very reasonable.

So, I'll have to get my car fitted with a safety net guard to stop him leaping into the front. Also, a bed, some toys, some food, drinking bowls etc....very exciting being a first time dog owner.


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Good for you, i have a Bearded Collie, amazing dogs, he's so laid back hes horizontal, and a 6mnth old Beardie/Border chestnut brown, but looks just like a border, turning into a great little dog, and he has spotty feet and a spotty face, they turn your life around so much, you will wonder how you went this long never having a dog before.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello again.

Yesterday I came home with Percy, a new 9 week old collie. The trip in the car for an hour was quite upsetting for him and he left his mark in the travel basket from both barrels.

I've now got him home and he has settled nicely although he is having trouble with his toilet training and confidence.

He hardly wants to move away from me so last night was also a bit fraught. I first had him in his cage which had lots of blankets etc., so was very comfy but after an hour of crying and then barking I went downstairs to let him out. Not sure if this was right but I was beginning to worry about the neighbours.

I layed on the sofa with him on the floor just below which made him a lot happier. A couple of toilet moments more and he settled down again and I managed to sneak off to bed at 5.30am. When I went down at 8.00am he had climbed onto the sofa where I had been and snuggled up with the blanket I had been under. I'm guessing that that maybe is sort of okayish.

To end a long story, would it be a good idea to get some of those toilet training pads that are supposed to make him go where he should, and how can I build his confidence up a bit more.

I've just managed to sneak upstairs to write this and have left him in the kitchen with the back garden (fully enclosed by 6ft fencing) door open after a feed with the same blanket he used last night. He seems ok.

I'm tired.


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

Glad everything went well and you've got Percy home! Good luck.
I can't really offer any advice on the toliet training as I've never really used the pads but I'm sure someone will be able to come along and help soon.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

People always get the same reaction when you mention collies the same as we got when we said we was getting a springer, bothare very much loved dogs by just about everyone but do have a kind if "reputation" sadly many ownes allow them to live up to it, ive heard the excuse for a badly behaved collie or springer so many times "oh hes a springer, they are like this arnt they, the same for collies. No they arnt really i always say given firm boundaries from the start, the exercise typical for the breed quality before quantity and training and they can prove to be just as well bahaved as any other dog.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

congratulations on getting little percy do you have a picture
just a little note though, i wouldnt leave a new/young puppy with free rein of the lounge/ any area really as they are so quick to find any electrical wires ie tv cable , stereo etc which could result in a fatality they find things very quickly and natural response to chew everything
hoping you enjoy your puppy


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

I just went down to make a cup of coffee and say hello to Percy.

He came over and snuggled over my foot so I gave him plenty of stroking and 'good boy.' I then saw the white tip of his tail disappearing into the garden so hopefully he's getting more confidence now.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

archiebaby said:


> congratulations on getting little percy do you have a picture
> just a little note though, i wouldnt leave a new/young puppy with free rein of the lounge/ any area really as they are so quick to find any electrical wires ie tv cable , stereo etc which could result in a fatality they find things very quickly and natural response to chew everything
> hoping you enjoy your puppy


Thank you very much, yes, thinking about it overnight (didn't sleep much) I have decided to make my kitchen his area which leads directly into the back garden. Easier to clean a wooden floor than a shagpile I'm thinking.


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## critter (Sep 14, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hello all,
> 
> A few weeks ago, when working with my brother, I met a Border Collie that really got me thinking that I would really enjoy having one myself.
> 
> ...


Hi,welcome to the forum, I think you have already answered your own questions, I think you will enjoy BC ownership because you are very active and BC's are high energy and very intelligent, there are a lot of BC owners on the forum who will be able to give you plenty of advice, as for taking on a breed that is brighter than you, just about every dog I've ever met is brighter than me and I own a Staffie X (definitely not the sharpest tool in the box!). wayne.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

samuelsmiles said:


> Thank you very much, yes, thinking about it overnight (didn't sleep much) I have decided to make my kitchen his area which leads directly into the back garden. Easier to clean a wooden floor than a shagpile I'm thinking.


thats good, wooden floors and no wires for him to find


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

I've just caught up with this thread - congratulations on getting Percy; you sound like just the right person to own a border collie and I'm sure you'll have a great time together. I have two border collies (along with three bergamaschi) and I wouldn't be without them for the world.

Re the toilet training: I personally think the training pads are a waste of time, although I do know some people like to use them. What I would do is o take Percy out into the garden as soon as he wakes up (after every sleep, not just first thing in the morning) and after every meal. Stay out with him, let him run around, and as soon as he does the business praise him and call him a good boy. Keep an eye on him for when he starts to squat in the house, and when he does pick him up, take him outside, and praise him when he goes. Don't tell him off if he has an accident indoors - he won't associate the telling off with the "indoors" bit and will think he is being told off for relieving himself, which could cause all sorts of problems.

Another thing it's best to mention is exercise - you probably know this because you have already done a lot of research, but don't fall into the trap of thinking Percy will need longs walks because he's a border collie pup and border collie pups have a lot of energy. He will get very nearly as much exercise as he needs just playing in the house and garden. For walks, a good rule of thumb is 5 minutes per month, per day - so at 9 weeks old Percy will only need his walks to be about 10 minutes per day.

btw - I'm dying to see some pics of him!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad you got him, BCs can be sensitive and nervous anyway, and if he is just away from mum and litter mates he is going to be clingy and timid, its all new and very strange.

What might help is DAP products, they can either be go in plug in form or it collars, you can even use both. It emits and artificial version of the pheromone that mum does to calm and soothe the pups, Available from vets and I think Pets at home but cheaper usually on line Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. is one place order line 0800 387348. you can get them next day if you ask for 1st class.

It might also help if you put a tshirt or jumper you have worn in his crate so your smell reassures him and also a large cuddly toy. If you have to leave him a radio down low on a talkie type staation often helps as the voices re-assure.

I personally wouldnt use training paper or pads it confuses them as it sends mixed messages that its ok to go in the house some of the time. Instead take him out every 30/34 minutes in the garden. When he starts to go give it a name (later they associated they name with going and you can use it as a toilet cue and sometimes use it to get them to pee on demand) When he finishes lots of praise and give him a treat. They need to go after, drinking,eating,playing and sleeping so make sure you take him out then too.
At night I also took mine out every time they woke or stirred. I slept downstairs for 1st couple of weeks, but you can either have in his crate by your bed, or set an alarm and take him out a few times that way if you want him to sleep downstairs on his own. Watch out for circling sniffing or maybe scratching about behaviour, that usually means they are looking for somewhere to go, although he might be a bit young yet, they dont always recognise they need to go at first. If he has an accident clean it up with a special pet stain remover, as if any smell left it can entise them to keep doing it in the same place. If he has an accident dont tell him off. Just take him outside anyway straight away, clear up the accident. If you tell them off it can make them nervous of going in front of you and hamper your training.

Hope this might help


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2011)

I dont have any experience with dogs im afraid, but the border collie is one of my favourite breed, although they are absolutely nutters and have soo much energy. 

I wish you the best of luck with him and want to see some pics please


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

I wouldn't use training pads, they will only teach him it's ok to go in the house, just take him out to the garden regularly and stay out there with him, really praise him when he goes outside, ignore any accidents inside, you will soon see when he is about to go, sniffing, circling, etc and get him outside quickly.

As to the sleeping at night or left unsupervised, I wouldn't leave him loose. You could put the blanket you used that has your scent on (or a t-shirt you've worn) in his crate. Also, if he cries left alone you could put the crate in your bedroom, next to your bed to start and then slowly move it out of the room, a little at a time over a few weeks.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your little pup.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you all for your advice. I think I'm expecting too much too soon, i'ts not as though I haven't been told enough.

As for the photograph, if Percy stays still enough for 1 second i'll grab a shot.

He did just fall asleep at my feet again but unfortunately I fell asleep too after no sleep last night.


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hello again.
> 
> Yesterday I came home with Percy, a new 9 week old collie. The trip in the car for an hour was quite upsetting for him and he left his mark in the travel basket from both barrels.
> 
> ...


my two both now sleep on or by my bed, but i had my little girl, who had similar separation issues in her crate by the bed for the first 2 weeks. 
As regards not exploring, i would put small treats in random places and encourage him to explore - this worked for my boy.
I find collies very intelligent and toilet training my two was no problem - Try getting him to go on newspaper, and when he's got that put the paper outside the back door - he should get it . . . 
My boy took 3 days and my girl took 2 weeks . . . it does mean leaving the door open a bit though


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> at 9 weeks old Percy will only need his walks to be about 10 minutes per day.


Just a reminder to new pup owners - They _cannot_ go out walking in the streets and parks untill two weeks after their second vaccination injection . . . However, you can have up to date vaccinated dogs round to socialise a week after their first. 
This is because of diseases carried by foxes, unvaccinated dogs, badgers etc.
Also, any areas they can get to in your garden should be hosed down thoroughly just in case


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi, thank you for the advice, the problem I seem to have is timing.

I've had some success with getting him outside in time and I do praise him.

I see him sniffing and circling so know it's about to happen so should I take him immediately to the newspaper and hold him there, he's a bit lively and doesn't like being forced to stay on the newspaper.


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Thank you very much, yes, thinking about it overnight (didn't sleep much) I have decided to make my kitchen his area which leads directly into the back garden. Easier to clean a wooden floor than a shagpile I'm thinking.


I thank the previous owner of my house every day for installing wood or vinyl floor all the way through downstairs - when he's a bit older you'll be constantly out for walkies, and unless you want to wash the dog every time (not good for his coat) there will be mud/sand/water everywhere ! it's easier to mop up than clean a carpet - get laying floor :thumbup:


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

I personally don't see anything wrong with a BC for a first dog; I know some of them have hyperactivity issues but them don't several breeds? Labs are not always the best dogs to have either so I wouldn't worry. Now am going to read the whole thread through; haven't done so yet!


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Just had some success. 

Percy started doing pre poo prep, circling etc., so I whipped the little fella outside in a flash, and put a newspaper under him. I made sure he sniffed the newspaper and congratulated him on a sterling effort so I'm assuming thats toilet training dealt with.


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## shepherd mush (Dec 22, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hi, thank you for the advice, the problem I seem to have is timing.
> 
> I've had some success with getting him outside in time and I do praise him.
> 
> I see him sniffing and circling so know it's about to happen so should I take him immediately to the newspaper and hold him there, he's a bit lively and doesn't like being forced to stay on the newspaper.


I wouldn't hold him on the paper - just keep up the good work taking him outside if you have enough time to watch him. 
But if he's having trouble associating the paper - it sounds disgusting, but after he has done something wipe the paper on it and put it outside the back door - keep taking him outside - he should smell his wee / poo on the paper and learn that it belongs outside. My only other thought is to give a treat when he goes on the paper. lol hope that helps


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

It looks like it'll be another long night. He seems to want to do his business anywhere but on paper.

Maybe my inexperience hasn't helped and he's got confused.


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Can you put his crate in your bedroom? He will sleep better if he is near to you. Put a worn piece of your clothing(smellier the better) in with him so he thinks you are near. Placing a clock that ticks near to him is also comforting (but not in chewing range)
As for toilet training he is but a small baby and will take a while to get it right all the time. Collies are sensitive to emotions so be careful not to make him feel unsure of you. He will watch every muscle movement in you face and body with out you being aware of it. They learn bad habits as fast as the good ones. Take a deep breath, relax and enjoy him.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

samuelsmiles said:


> Just had some success.
> 
> Percy started doing pre poo prep, circling etc., so I whipped the little fella outside in a flash, and put a newspaper under him. I made sure he sniffed the newspaper and congratulated him on a sterling effort so I'm assuming thats toilet training dealt with.


I'd forget the newspaper bit if I were you hun.  I can't see the sense in training a dog to go on newspaper, especially if you are putting him outside. If you train him to go on newspaper, some day he's going to come across a newspaper or magazine in your house and think it's ok to toilet there - or worse still, he may see one in someone else's house ......... :scared:

Border collies pick things up very easily, and it's a lot harder to train them out of bad habits than it is to train them correctly in the first place.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Things are a lot more under control now I think.

It was probably a mistake to let him have the run of all downstairs so I've bought a gate to limit the little bugger to the kitchen and a some of the garden.

The toilet situation is a lot easier to control and he is now using the areas I officially designated to him in a brief discussion early this morning. (1 by the back door and 1 outside the back door.)

He's now well fed and had plenty to drink and 15 minutes of fun time, and I'm upstairs writing this whilst listening to him have a good old cry and bark. 

I'm guessing it will be best to let him wear himself out, otherwise he will think all he has to do to get me coming is make a noise. I hope this is the right thing to do.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Things are a lot more under control now I think.
> 
> It was probably a mistake to let him have the run of all downstairs so I've bought a gate to limit the little bugger to the kitchen and a some of the garden.
> 
> ...


They do need to have periods on their own, but you need to build it up slowly. So that they can cope with increasing periods of time. Constant access and following you about can cause separation anxiety when they have to be left, but so can leaving them too long in the initial stages. They have to slowly learn that you going, also means you will be back. Set a routine when he is left take him to where you are going to be leaving him. You can do things like you leaving means a treat, whether it be a small one, or longer lasting, I used to leave mine with a stuffed kong with a few bits in it at first because it was only very short time, then putting more stuff in it.
Dont make a big thing, just leave him, things like a radio turned down low on a talk station helps. When you let him out dont immediately fuss him, then give fuss after a minute or two. Start doing it for a couple of 5 minute periods throughout the day, then build up. You will establish a routine for when you have to leave him.

Still think your doing wrong with the paper though and the designated areas,
There is only one place he should be going and that is outside. I did post yesterday with a full toilet training programe, however, you need to do the best thing in the best way for you. BCs can be hard to toilet train 
and its seems especially so if they come from working farm stock sometimes.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> They do need to have periods on their own, but you need to build it up slowly. So that they can cope with increasing periods of time. Constant access and following you about can cause separation anxiety when they have to be left, but so can leaving them too long in the initial stages. They have to slowly learn that you going, also means you will be back. Set a routine when he is left take him to where you are going to be leaving him. You can do things like you leaving means a treat, whether it be a small one, or longer lasting, I used to leave mine with a stuffed kong with a few bits in it at first because it was only very short time, then putting more stuff in it.
> Dont make a big thing, just leave him, things like a radio turned down low on a talk station helps. When you let him out dont immediately fuss him, then give fuss after a minute or two. Start doing it for a couple of 5 minute periods throughout the day, then build up. You will establish a routine for when you have to leave him.
> 
> Still think your doing wrong with the paper though and the designated areas,
> ...


Some really helpful advice from everyone.

Also talked to a veterinary nurse a couple of doors away and she came round to meet Percy and gave me real confidence. I now realise how often I have to take him outside to give him a sporting chance of hitting his targets so there have been no incidents indoors today.

He's been very happy going beserk chasing his balls and his tail today. I've been told to only close him inside the kitchen with the new gate at night time but have been out 2 or 3 times leaving him alone for a few minutes to try to help him out although tonight is the big test.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Some really helpful advice from everyone.
> 
> Also talked to a veterinary nurse a couple of doors away and she came round to meet Percy and gave me real confidence. I now realise how often I have to take him outside to give him a sporting chance of hitting his targets so there have been no incidents indoors today.
> 
> He's been very happy going beserk chasing his balls and his tail today. I've been told to only close him inside the kitchen with the new gate at night time but have been out 2 or 3 times leaving him alone for a few minutes to try to help him out although tonight is the big test.


You will get there, it just takes time and being consistent thats all. You just need to set boundaries and put things in place at the beginning and build up from there. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to implement things and put training in place when a problem starts. By getting it right in the first place it cuts down problems later on, because the pup then only knows one thing and what is expected of him. Pups thrieve on routine and consistency. Believe me its a lot easier then trying to retrain them out of problem behaviour later.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Me and Percy have had a great day today and after about 20 minutes on this forum I have just realised he has not barked once since i've been upstairs.

I'm having touble with my camera but will hopefully get a picture soon.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Hello all, a quick update on Percy.

He's been booked in for his booster vaccination on Friday morning so, if I can get his collar and lead on, he'll be able to venture out into the world for the first time later in the day.

I've given him points out of ten for some stuff.

Toilet training, 5. (Could do better)
Nipping, 6. (Not too aggressive but will be expecting improvent soon)
Sport, 10. (Football skills very good)
Language, 7. (Understands Percy, come)

If he behaves himself a bit more I'll hang on to him a while longer, otherwise he's going up for auction on Ebay.


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

He is lovely, befor you know it you will be wondering what all the fuss was about.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hello all, a quick update on Percy.
> 
> He's been booked in for his booster vaccination on Friday morning so, if I can get his collar and lead on, he'll be able to venture out into the world for the first time later in the day.
> 
> ...


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Hello all, a quick update on Percy.
> 
> He's been booked in for his booster vaccination on Friday morning so, if I can get his collar and lead on, he'll be able to venture out into the world for the first time later in the day.
> 
> ...


He's Such a Cutie  Let me know If I goe's on ebay I'll be the 1st to Bid :lol:
I'm So pleased for you. Give him Time He'll Be getting Full Marks for Everything

You've Both Got a Friend for life in one another ) Really Happy for The Both of you I mean that


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## muffinmania (Jan 16, 2011)

Ive been reading posts for a few days and not posted yet but had to when I saw your pic! He is lovely!
We have a ten month old border collie (Lottie). We ve had her since she was 8 weeks old. (our previous dog was a collie x lab who sadly had to be put to sleep at the beginning of last year as she was very old and poorly ) . We have loved every minute of having Lottie. She is hard work and she has caused me to swear on several occasions ( usually when she has chewed my new chair!) but I wouldnt swap her for the world! She is so loving and fantastic with my kids and our two cats! 
They are a fabulous dog. 
Best wishes for the future


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

PoisonGirl said:


> Its those people that go ''ohh theyr cute'' and just go and get one with no research at all


Guilty as charged. No problems though.



PoisonGirl said:


> One more piece of advece...
> 
> Don't get a puppy from working parents! The fully working ones are more likely to be harder work.


Guilty as charged again. Sorry.



Twiggy said:


> If you are intent on having a Border Collie as a first dog, do your research and go for show, obedience or agility bred lines.


Whoops. Went for working stock as above. Sorry.

   

Percy looks like the stuff of legends.

Keep up the consitancy, it sets them up for the rest of their life and then it becomes dead easy.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Huge improvement today.

I've had Percy's travelling crate in the kitchen for 3 days now and he now sleeps with loads of bedding, some toys, a chew and a pair of my jeans and he's solid gon' man.

What I do is play in the garden to wear him out and give him time to do his stuff and then get him really calm by maybe holding and stroking him. Then he usually goes to his food and drink and when he has his back turned I quietly hop over the barrier into the living room and close the door.

He then decides, "bugger this for a game of cricket, I'll have a nap in my new home."

Even when I've been back in to the kitchen some time later he will stay in his crate, looking up at me really calmy. 

I suppose you can read as many books as you like but it just takes time and experience to work things out so, hopefully, we've found a system.

I've therefore decided to delay listing Percy on Ebay. He'd better just watch his step though.....the little bugger.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Bad night last night. 

At bedtime Percy was barking for an hour so, worried about neighbours (who promise me they can't really hear him too much) I let him into the main downstairs and gave him the run of the place.....mess in the morning.

I've now put him back into the kitchen with his comfy crate and the back garden door open....he has now woken up and is barking mad again.

He has had loads of excercise today so should I let him bark himself out because I don't want him thinking he can do this at any time of the day.

Any advice would be much appreciated

ps. there is a gate between the kitchen and the living room where I am.


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