# Stud boy



## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Would like another breeders opinion please.

Would you consider buying an adult cat rather than a kitten for a stud. From what Ive been told this boy is proven, comes from sought after lines, is between 4-5 years old? The price asked is about the same as a pet quality kitten.

Personally I would be a little cautious but would like to know what others might think.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

The only advantage to this that I can see is that you can start using him straight away rather than waiting till he is old enough.

On the other hand, for a kitten, you cannot guarantee if they will make a good stud or not until they are older??


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> The only advantage to this that I can see is that you can start using him straight away rather than waiting till he is old enough.
> 
> On the other hand, for a kitten, you cannot guarantee if they will make a good stud or not until they are older??


I see your point Saffron but basically would you not say that although he's in his prime he might not be working for long.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Although I have no experience of any of thid, the question that jumps to my mind is why would they sell a perfectly healthy, well working stud?


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Why is he being sold to you? Is someone emigrating/moving house or has someone died? or is it just that they have retired and cannot keep him? or is it that he has stopped siring lovely kittens for some reason?

Did you or the person enquiring approach the breeder or did the breeder approach you/a friend? If he is from sought after lines, perhaps you may like to know more from some of the people who sent their queens to him what sort of litters he sires.

There are obvious advantages but also some disadvantages and if I were offered such a deal, I would probably have to think very carefully about it. A decision like this depends on one's circumstances, time, space, finances etc etc as you know. The stud's nature, health and other's findings can also have a bearing on your decision.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*I bought a working stud cat, and not a kitten? the reason the breeder was selling him is she was changing her line, im happy with the boy i got, and has fatherd 4 litters for me now, *


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

helz said:


> Although I have no experience of any of thid, the question that jumps to my mind is why would they sell a perfectly healthy, well working stud?


Exactly Helz!
Personally if you have a good healthy stud boy that is working well then you hang onto him as they are not easy to replace.
Offloading springs to mind here.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Exactly Helz!
> Personally if you have a good healthy stud boy that is working well then you hang onto him as they are not easy to replace.
> Offloading springs to mind here.


O no, not at all. Think about it logically with a piece of paper listing your hypothetical stud cat and queens, and thinking a few generations down the line. Once the stud has "done the rounds" of all your girls, you have to take any offspring you keep out to stud, and their offspring out to stud, at the very least, or you get hopeless inbreeding. If you can't get much outside work for the stud, he ends up very frustrated if you have bought in a new boy, and yet he may still have a lot to offer to someone else, just not to you because the inbreeding is too high. People keep a good successor and that way, if your queens are unrelated, you only get half the amount of inbreeding whilst still keeping the line going and, hopefully, improving on Dad. It may very well be as simple as that. I've had experience of using a previous stud over and over again and the inbreeding becomes a problem.

I bought in an adult boy six months ago and yes indeed the huge advantage is that you can use him straight away.

Liz


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> O no, not at all. Think about it logically with a piece of paper listing your hypothetical stud cat and queens, and thinking a few generations down the line. Once the stud has "done the rounds" of all your girls, you have to take any offspring you keep out to stud, and their offspring out to stud, at the very least, or you get hopeless inbreeding. If you can't get much outside work for the stud, he ends up very frustrated if you have bought in a new boy, and yet he may still have a lot to offer to someone else, just not to you because the inbreeding is too high. People keep a good successor and that way, if your queens are unrelated, you only get half the amount of inbreeding whilst still keeping the line going and, hopefully, improving on Dad. It may very well be as simple as that. I've had experience of using a previous stud over and over again and the inbreeding becomes a problem.
> 
> I bought in an adult boy six months ago and yes indeed the huge advantage is that you can use him straight away.
> 
> Liz


As far as Im aware the boy is producing small litters 1-2 in each and the breeder is putting that down to the queens she has, age.etc
Im no expert in genetics and I have never had this problem myself, but I wouldn't think it's the queens fault for the small litters produced.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Would it be relatively uncomplicated to contact some of his past dams' owners to find out what they have to say about his prowess?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Both studs and queens will produce smaller litters the older they get. I have been told of someone whose stud boy is 16 years old and still going!! To me thats just wrong, and hence he only produces small litters.

Now thats an extreme. I wouldnt have thought that a stud at the age of 5 would be at fault for producing small litters  but im no expert and still learning myself


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Rraa said:


> Would it be relatively uncomplicated to contact some of his past dams' owners to find out what they have to say about his prowess?


It was mentioned by the breeder that currently owns him, and she was advised that the small litters problem may be due to incompatability with her queens.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> As far as Im aware the boy is producing small litters 1-2 in each and the breeder is putting that down to the queens she has, age.etc
> Im no expert in genetics and I have never had this problem myself, but I wouldn't think it's the queens fault for the small litters produced.


I would. Don't forget the male produces millions of sperm, the female only a small number of eggs.

Liz


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> I would. Don't forget the male produces millions of sperm, the female only a small number of eggs.
> 
> Liz


I agree Liz........................but there could also be a problem with low sperm count in the male perhaps?
If for instance this boy has 3 queens available for mating at home then they can't all have the same problem with producing a small number of eggs as it seems all his queens have produced small litters.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I agree Liz........................but there could also be a problem with low sperm count in the male perhaps?
> If for instance this boy has 3 queens available for mating at home then they can't all have the same problem with producing a small number of eggs as it seems all his queens have produced small litters.


Yes good point Angeli. Im no expert either, but it makes sense


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

It is the girl who determines the size of the litter, 2 things you need to look at, the temperament of the boy, you would need to meet him and see if he allows you to handle him.
2 A full health check including all blood tests, not just the usual ones.
I wouldn't worry too much about his age if his health is perfect, my last litter of 4 Siamese were out of a 14 year old boy.

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
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## earlybird (Aug 2, 2008)

No not at that age I wouldn't as in my opinion he is nearing the age he ought to be neutered and retired from working duties


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

earlybird said:


> No not at that age I wouldn't as in my opinion he is nearing the age he ought to be neutered and retired from working duties


Have you much experience of cat breeding ? I notice you don't give any details of yourself or cats ?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

If the boy is happy and producing good babies then why not keep him entire? One my boys is from a Stud who is 11 and my kitten is huge, strong, healthy and purrfect in everyway. So is his Dad....


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

Maybe Earybird will tell us her experience ? Mine is 30 years.

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> If the boy is happy and producing good babies then why not keep him entire? One my boys is from a Stud who is 11 and my kitten is huge, strong, healthy and purrfect in everyway. So is his Dad....


I agree. i would be happy to let my boys carry on as long as they are siring good healthy kittens. Many other breeders I know do this too.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I think no one can comment that having a stud entire for x amount of years is wrong until they have a stud. You will then be able to tell yourself whether he is suited for the work, whether he needs to be neutered early, or carry on. It must depend on so many factors and you can never tell as it depends on the boy. 

I have no experience, I'm just guessing!


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think no one can comment that having a stud entire for x amount of years is wrong until they have a stud. You will then be able to tell yourself whether he is suited for the work, whether he needs to be neutered early, or carry on. It must depend on so many factors and you can never tell as it depends on the boy.
> 
> I have no experience, I'm just guessing!


But guessing correctly. lol

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Same as applies to humans I suppose. What's age got to do with it, it's only a number.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lol.......


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## earlybird (Aug 2, 2008)

audrey1824 said:


> Maybe Earybird will tell us her experience ? Mine is 30 years.


Good for you 

I didn't realise that 30 years experience was required to have an opinion but I stand corrected  A personal opinion is just that- there are many roads to Rome after all and no one way is right. Individual circumstances etc etc


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

earlybird said:


> Good for you
> 
> I didn't realise that 30 years experience was required to have an opinion but I stand corrected  A personal opinion is just that- there are many roads to Rome after all and no one way is right. Individual circumstances etc etc


You still don't give us your experience, to give advice on this sort of thing you need to know what you are talking about, so come on tell us your experience regarding studs.

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I'd just like to know who earlybird is~? She won't let on!


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## storm (Aug 25, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I'd just like to know who earlybird is~? She won't let on!


I bet its an elephant that breeds for big ears


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

that is very random, who are you storm?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

i think misty lost most of her kittens coz the cat i caught her with was very old and very ropey looking , needless to say she is booked in 2 be altered but i think if there is illness in the stud it will effect the sperm , but seeing as most pedigree stud cats are well fed well maintained and well looked after i think that they would be able to make healthy babies to a ripe old age and when the quality of the kittens starts fading it is then that the stud should collect his pension and make way for a more youthful model


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

siamese candrika said:


> i think misty lost most of her kittens coz the cat i caught her with was very old and very ropey looking


Actually I'd say that was most unlikely. Far more likely to be some sort of infection or possibly blood type incompatibility.

Liz


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

Like I said the boy should have a full blood tests, and health check, he is no age, but also his temperament is important.
I agree with Liz about the stud used, could be infection or blood type incompatibility.

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

audrey1824 said:


> Like I said the boy should have a full blood tests, and health check, he is no age, but also his temperament is important.
> I agree with Liz about the stud used, could be infection or blood type incompatibility.
> 
> Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
> ...


Yes even more so if he's been used as an open stud.


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