# Serious question for breeders of Bengals in particular



## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

How do you keep going?

We're finding it increasingly difficult to find new owners for our cats and I can see a time when we'll have to greatly reduce the price and sell the cats unregistered or at least without vaccinations just to survive!

There seem to be far too many people selling unregistered Bengals, in particular, on the cheap.

We love our cats but it's getting very difficult to maintain this enormous expense with no return.

Fiona


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

I breed few litters. Maybe one a year and I've been lucky to have kitten buyers recommending me to friends and family. I nowadays have more buyers than kittens (and I've only raised 4 litters). I know some breeders of the same breed have had some problems having their kittens sold but I guess I've been lucky.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi ES,

I went to visit a breeder of bengals recently with my friend and she had 2 kitten bengals from good lines (glitterglam and an amercian one).

Because she cant get rid of the kittens she offered my friend the girl on the active for £400 and the other girl for £200


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Because she cant get rid of the kittens she offered my friend the girl on the active for £400 and the other girl for £200


See that's ridiculous, the vaccinations are costing us around £55 that's without all the food for the mothers and the kittens or registering the litter.

Fiona


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> See that's ridiculous, the vaccinations are costing us around £55 that's without all the food for the mothers and the kittens or registering the litter.
> 
> Fiona


I agree completely..I started a thread recently in which in it I referred to 'especially the bengals' - as I was looking about with my friend and it it stood out a mile to me aswel Fi. xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> How do you keep going?
> 
> We're finding it increasingly difficult to find new owners for our cats and I can see a time when we'll have to greatly reduce the price and sell the cats unregistered or at least without vaccinations just to survive!
> 
> ...


I'm afraid it comes down to supply and demand. When Bengals first appeared the prices were huge and those who could afford to jumped on the bandwagon. Now there are far too many being produced and so naturally the price will plummet.

Bottom line, you have two options: 1. change breed or 2. regard the kittens you do not want to keep as simply surplus to requirements and rehome them for whatever price you can get. I have been known to literally give away registered pedigree kittens because I couldn't keep them and couldn't find a buyer.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Hi ES,
> 
> I went to visit a breeder of bengals recently with my friend and she had 2 kitten bengals from good lines (glitterglam and an amercian one).
> 
> Because she cant get rid of the kittens she offered my friend the girl on the active for £400 and the other girl for £200


In my breed those are the normal prices.

Liz


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

lizward said:


> In my breed those are the normal prices.
> 
> Liz


Really??? What breed do you have Liz?

When I got my first bengal at the beginning of this year I paid £500 for him just as a special pet?


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

lizward said:


> In my breed those are the normal prices.
> 
> Liz


Liz,

What breed is that? I presume that they are sold un-vaccinated?

Fiona


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

And its abit of a difference paying £500 for pet 6months ago to paying £600 for 2 with one on active! Massive difference. And its not even that they havent got good lines because Im up with all that and they have.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

lizward said:


> In my breed those are the normal prices.
> 
> Liz


In Sweden most pedigree pet cats go for £300-£500. Only less common breeds such as the Bengal and Sphynx are more expensive, but the price on Bengals is dropping here since it has become more and more common the last few years.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Really??? What breed do you have Liz?


Asians. While the normal pet price seems to be £250-£350, I have seen one below £200 from a very well known line. The kitten I bought in for breeding in March cost £400 active, non-active the price would have been £250. Stud fees are £120-£150, occasionally up to £200. Quite a lot more in one case but that cat is a VERY big name in the breed (UK and Imperial Grand Champion).

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> Liz,
> 
> What breed is that? I presume that they are sold un-vaccinated?
> 
> Fiona


Certainly not!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Cerridwen said:


> the price on Bengals is dropping here since it has become more and more common the last few years.


Quite - a quick look through pets4homes will turn up LOADS of bengals.

Liz


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Bengals are such a beautiful breed, if I ever were to own a breed of cat, it would be the Bengal. However I am put of by the price of kittens, not that I am being cheap or can't afford it, I would just prefer to get a rescue for a smaller amount of money knowing I was doing the cat a good deed.


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## Maxwell (Feb 19, 2008)

Im quite lucky, I have a waiting list for my kittens.. but again, I have only two queens & no stud..
Its a '_very_' expensive hobby, but in my minds eye, I want to improve the breed - I enjoy showing & for me to breed from hand picked, champion bengals is an exciting bonus..
I am also a lot poorer because of the cats but hey..


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Sorry you are are having problems Fiona.

No matter what, you mustn't sell your kittens without their vaccs as this will only 'put off' the buyers with loving homes you are looking for.

There will always be buyers who want to pay less than the going rate - don't sell to them.

Things may seem bad at the moment, but hopefully this is a temporary set back - & buyers will soon be queing up.

I know exactly how you feel, I lost my last litter of kittens & I am £170.00 out of pocket on vet fees.

This isn't much consolation I know, & giving you advice about how you should have had your finances in place before you started breeding, really is not going to help you now!

Just try & weather the storm, & if you need to chat that's what we're all here for!

Goodluck.


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## kittycats84 (Jul 20, 2008)

View attachment precious.bmp
Hi, putting bengals aside...Im getting our lilac BSH in september...and a blue BSH boy early next year! I will then be breeding them. (obviously when they are at the right age)! They cost me £450 each on active register..

I will be selling their future kittens for £400 each...thats injections being done, wormed and front-lined...

All kittens will be GCCF reg....


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

kittycats84 said:


> They cost me £450 each on active register..




That's cheap! Our Queens cost £1,000 each and the stud was £1,500.




kittycats84 said:


> I will be selling their future kittens for £400 each...thats injections being done, wormed and front-lined...


 
Good luck with that.

Fiona


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## kittycats84 (Jul 20, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> That's cheap! Our Queens cost £1,000 each and the stud was £1,500.
> 
> ...




many thanks


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2008)

prehaps this oncomming recession isnt helping matters , i would assume some area's will be worse hit than others


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes its the whole economy so I would think it would have an effect on buying pedigrees aswel unfortunately. People are not spending money right now and everything is so expensive. x


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> People are not spending money right now and everything is so expensive. x


Trouble is everything else that you need to buy is getting more expensive!

Fiona


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> Trouble is everything else that you need to buy is getting more expensive!
> 
> Fiona


They reckon its going to be another couple of months before we actually hit the recession! Imagine what its going to be like then! I've already started a sep nest egg as my business has been quieter for a while now. Most people are in the same boat and its an awful time right now but its not just the UK its everywhere. xx


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

I believe kitten sales are down in most breeds at the moment
and sadly with all the BYB this hasn't helped the situation at all
when people are just wanting a pet they seem to go for the cheapest kitten they can find in the breed they want
not giving any thought to whether the kitten is bred correctly and from healthy lines in a lot of cases they end up spending a lot more money with Vet bills because they have problems!!
not to mention all the heartache they go through


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

This is a genuine question...

Now most serious well thought out breeders are breeding to improve their chosen breed. So I assume this means, when you have a litter of kittens you would keep ones that you consider to be an improvement on the parents you bred from.

If I am correct in thinking this, then could this be looked upon as a hobby? If it is a hobby, then why are you worried about breaking even, because to be honnest, what hobby doesn't cost money?

On the other hand, if you don't consider this to be a hobby, then I guess it would be a buisness, in which case you would be trying to make money from the sale of these kittens (rather than just breaking even).

I am not a breeder and although my cat recently had a litter of kittens, they were not planned. I made no money (and did not attempt to) out of these kittens. I payed for vet checks during the pregnancy and then for mum and kits after they were born. I wormed them, (and was told by the vet they did not need flea treating unless they had fleas, as its a cure not a preventative) and of course I fed them.

I provided each kitten with a little pack to take to his new home, included both a selection of the wet and dry food they had been eating and their favourite toy.

So obviously this would have cost me a fair amount of money. And all my kittens went to their new home for free. Now as for me this was a one off I am only spending this money once, but to me the enjoyment of having those lovely little kittens around was well worth the cost!.

...oh I never realise how much I write...


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Hee hee, Helz, to break even would be nice! over the last 18 months alone I have had to pay for 3 ops at over £300 a time. Its quite an expensive hobby me thinks


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Hee hee, Helz, to break even would be nice! over the last 18 months alone I have had to pay for 3 ops at over £300 a time. Its quite an expensive hobby me thinks


Lol, well I would much rather be spending that on cats, my fiance is into landrovers as his hobby, and we seem to spend a couple of hundred each month on engines, exhausts, gear boxes... and its still in the garage!!!!! Arghhh!!! ...sorry have to let it out


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh boys and their toys eh? I'd say go and let his tyres down but that might end up costing you again, pmsl


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Breeding is a hobby for me and as such, I expect to pay for it. To break even would be noteworthy which is probably why it was mentioned. I think its nice to be able to delight in giving away kittens after having enjoyed seeing them growing up - however, if I am to be able to continue enjoying this hobby whilst at the same time trying to improve the breed, speaking personally now, I must try to recoup something, even if not all my outlay.


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Rraa said:


> however, if I am to be able to continue enjoying this hobby whilst at the same time trying to improve the breed, speaking personally now, I must try to recoup something, even if not all my outlay.


I think this sums up things for us too!

We've gladly spent lots of money on our cats and accessories. We love having a house full of cats and seeing kittens grow is an amazing privilege but it's a fact that we do need to start seeing some return if we're going to keep on doing this.

Fiona


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

If I was a prospective buyer I would be so put off by this quote from your website:



> You will be able to find less expensive Bengals out there but they will not have had the same love and care poured into them that ours have and they will be from inferior breeding stock. So if you're after a cheap kitten look somewhere else!


I know what you are trying to say but this :

1. Sounds arrogant

2. Immediately warns the prospective buyer that your kittens are at the upper range, even if that is not true

3. Engenders this thought: So what, I want a pet, not a show cat or a breeding cat.

And I cannot believe that you have adverts at the bottom of your website directing potential customers to competitors who are probably selling exactly those kittens you are warning your customers off. unbelieveable!

I would delete this paragraph forthwith/immediately.

Instead highlight why your lines are strong/original. Build up an expectation of a top, highly sought after kitten.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Tried editing and it sort of lost it

But you also have adverts at the bottom of the kitten page to exactly the sort of sellers you are saying sell cheaper kittens. WHY? 

Surely that directs the customer away from your site to search for a 'cheaper' kitten


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Hate to be the one to have to say this what the heck has ES bengals website got to do with you? If she wanted opinions on it she would of posted a thread asking.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> How do you keep going?
> 
> We're finding it increasingly difficult to find new owners for our cats and I can see a time when we'll have to greatly reduce the price and sell the cats unregistered or at least without vaccinations just to survive!
> 
> ...


lol cats4Eve

You obviously just look at the lsat few posts


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

I dont think she was asking people to go and look at her website and give opinion - she was on about the pedigree industry in particular the bengals as the industry is quiet. She was asking other how they are getting through this 'quiet' period.x


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

She does not have anybody buying her kittens.

If you look at her website that may be the reason - its all about marketing, especially if the market is saturated, as she is implying.


If I was a prospective buyer I would be put off by that statement and I would look elsewhere. This was not 'having a go'; it was serious constructive criticism. 

What I find absolutely amazing are the weblinked adverts at the bottom of her site. 

Yes, they may provide some income. But it also turns any prospective buyer to 'have a look just in case'. Bet you that those people don't come back.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2008)

kittycats84 said:


> View attachment 7439
> Hi, putting bengals aside...Im getting our lilac BSH in september...and a blue BSH boy early next year! I will then be breeding them. (obviously when they are at the right age)! They cost me £450 each on active register..
> 
> I will be selling their future kittens for £400 each...thats injections being done, wormed and front-lined...
> ...


I am in love, that kitten is right up my street so gorgeous. Wow!!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Janee said:


> She does not have anybody buying her kittens.
> 
> If you look at her website that may be the reason - its all about marketing, especially if the market is saturated, as she is implying.
> 
> If I was a prospective buyer I would be put off by that statement and I would look elsewhere. This was not 'having a go'; it was serious constructive criticism.


I have to agree, there are several things that would put me off.

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Hmmm well i get annoyed with people who are looking for cheap kittens!! When i tell them my price i feel i have to explain the reasons for that price! 

Anyway that aside - As some of you may remember I was going to buy a bengal queen for £1000 and was put off by the amount of BYBs out there selling Bengals for a quarter of the price i was willing to pay - and some of them were advertised without paperwork so that they could sell them cheap!
After my research on the Bengals I realised I would have problems selling kittens.
In my opinion I dont think you are going to be able to stop them Fiona - maybe see if there is another breed that you like???


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Janee said:


> But you also have adverts at the bottom of the kitten page to exactly the sort of sellers you are saying sell cheaper kittens. WHY?
> 
> Surely that directs the customer away from your site to search for a 'cheaper' kitten


I don't know to be honest, I'm not getting money for it I just thought I was being grateful to the people who run this forum but perhaps I should change that.

The 'arrogant' comment was only added over the weekend and probably because I got fed up with people wanting cheap cats but point taken and you're probably correct.

Believe me I am always open to suggestions so thanks.

Fiona


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

you're website is lovely fiona but the comment some have made are correct ... your cats and kittens are all beautiful and it's lovely to hear that you are doing everything right for your babies. well done you... good homes will come.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

There is a active bengal queen on the pets for homes website for £195! breeders in my area are selling reg,vacc kitts for £100-150.bengals arent the expensive,breed that everyone wants but cant afford anymore.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> There is a active bengal queen on the pets for homes website for £195! breeders in my area are selling reg,vacc kitts for £100-150.bengals arent the expensive,breed that everyone wants but cant afford anymore.


That's the impression I got - the market is saturated with Bengals and I'm afraid there are going to be a few breeders hurt before it corrects itself. An awful lot of these things come down to very basic economics ie. supply and demand. Only those who are really committed to the Bengals as a breed should be in it now. Those who were hoping to make any money at all would be better advised to go for another breed. A quick look at the GCCF site to see the numbers of cats registered for each breed would be informative perhaps.

Liz


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