# day 64 pregnant dog???



## Guest

Hi I am new to this forum but am having a problem with my lab/spaniel who I believe is 64 days pregnant. She has not put a lot of weight on although she seems to be lying low and very round arround her rib cage. She has very swollen glands (doesnt seem to be milk) and some bare hair around her nipples. She has been in and out her whelping box since friday and her temperature is 98.4 since 7pm last night. Would she have all these symptoms if it was a phantom pregnancy? Think I will take her to the vet toomorrow. Can anybody give me advice, thanks


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## sid&kira

Have you not had a scan to confirm pregnancy?

ANd yes I believe bitches to gain weight, get enlarged nipples, have moring sickness and go through the nesting behaviour if its just a phantom, I believe some even have contractions! Just nothing comes out. Not 100% sure on this tho, just think I've read it somewhere on here lol


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## sid&kira

Was it a planned pregnacy?


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## Guest

yes it was a planned pregnancy. No we havent had a scan done. Thanks for the info re phnatom I have researched it a lot and came up with the same answers as you. She is lying about a lot today but her temp is still low.


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## colliemerles

good luck with her, hope shes ok, keep us posted,


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## Guest

I will keep you posted hopefully something will happen tonight. Going to take her to vets tomorrow to make sure everything ok


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## sid&kira

Why has she not been scanned? A scan is vital to know for definate that she is pregnant, and also to rule out a singleton which can be dangerous for both pup and bitch


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## Freyja

My bitch reabsorbed the litter last year. She went through everything as if she was having pups but no pups arrived. Her temperature dropped she was nesting everything was there. She even looked pregnant.


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## Tanya1989

Good Luck... what is her temperature? It is likely if it has dropped that labour will start within the next 24 hours (of drop) if labour doesn't start within 24 hours I would want a trip to the vet as dilation usually starts around the time that temp begins to drop ( dilation a lot slower than humans) so the longer that she remains dilated, the greater the risk of infection.

Is this your first litter?


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## colliemerles

tracythejambo said:


> I will keep you posted hopefully something will happen tonight. Going to take her to vets tomorrow to make sure everything ok


ok, good luck,if nothing happens tonight, let us know how she gets on at the vets tomorrow,


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## Tanya1989

Sorry lol, just re read, 98.4.... what has it been for the last few days. Can you feel any movement? Have you felt any movement?


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## Merlin Birmingham

tracythejambo said:


> yes it was a planned pregnancy. No we havent had a scan done. Thanks for the info re phnatom I have researched it a lot and came up with the same answers as you. She is lying about a lot today but her temp is still low.


I do not understand if it was a planned pregnancy, you have not got her checked over by a medical professional to make sure everything is going ok or to even determine if she is pregnant!


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## Tanya1989

Sorry, don't want to muddy the water so to speak, but whats done has been done. Lets just concentrate now on how we can help her rather than on what should have been done.


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## canuckjill

Tanya1989 said:


> Sorry, don't want to muddy the water so to speak, but whats done has been done. Lets just concentrate now on how we can help her rather than on what should have been done.


Thank you Tanya....Jill


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## archielee

Good luck hope it goes ok of you mummy dog and puppies


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## Guest

yes this is her first litter. Her temp was 98.6 at 7.15 last night and it is now 97.3. Thanks for all your replies guys


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## Guest

I am positive I felt a kick on friday afternoon she is okay in herself just wanting to lie down a lot, keeps cleaning herself too


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## colliemerles

tracythejambo said:


> yes this is her first litter. Her temp was 98.6 at 7.15 last night and it is now 97.3. Thanks for all your replies guys


make sure you have a camera ready, we will need to see lots of pictures when the puppies arrive.:thumbup:


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## Tanya1989

Start taking it every hour now until labour starts.


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## Guest

I have got the camera ready lol and I will take her temp again just now. Thanks very much for the positive comments and advice guys. Will be on standby tonight again lol


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## Bearpaw

Just wanted to wish you best of luck


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## Tanya1989

Most of us will be online through the night if you need company/ moral support


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## archielee

Tanya1989 said:


> Most of us will be online through the night if you need company/ moral support


Hehe hun you need some puppy love


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## Tanya1989

I know lol... I'm buzzing already. Put my name on a waiting list for another pup as well... might have a long wait she is a very sought after breeder, but it will be worth it


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## Guest

temperature is now 96.8 Tanya is this not too low


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## archielee

That temp is looking good


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## archielee

Tanya1989 said:


> I know lol... I'm buzzing already. Put my name on a waiting list for another pup as well... might have a long wait she is a very sought after breeder, but it will be worth it


A good pup is worth the wait


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## Tanya1989

Nope... temp taking is more of an art for than a science... it just gives you a rough idea of what to expect. I imagine tonight is the night... tomorrow morning at the latest.
Make sure she goes out on a lead tonight and keep a torch with you... the urge of a baby feels very much like she needs to poo or wee and it is not unheard of for them to deliver outside


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## Spaniel mad

Wishing you loads of luck xxxx


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## Tanya1989

archielee said:


> A good pup is worth the wait


I know lol... I am absolutely buzzing!


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## archielee

I know that feeling i think i have been for the last 3 weeks, im loving having puppies to play with and no work


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## Guest

Thanks for all your support guys although I love my dog to bits and have researched it a lot think I under estimated all the finer details. Going to chill now might be in for a long night


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## Lucylewis0

Just popping in to wish you the best of luck :thumbup:
Try and get your head down now for a few hours if you can someone to watch over your girl while you have a power nap


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## Matrix/Logan

How exciting............ puppies!!

Looking forward to following her progress, hope all goes well. x x


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## xxwelshcrazyxx

OOOh more puppies.............hope everything goes well for you hun, Tanya will be here to help you out. I got to get up early for more painting jobs, so wont be on here later on, but I wish you all the very best for when it happens. Good Luck. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## casandra

sid&kira said:


> Why has she not been scanned? A scan is vital to know for definate that she is pregnant, and also to rule out a singleton which can be dangerous for both pup and bitch


Some bitches stress out a lot when they are handled by strangers. Though your vet should not be a stranger or someone that upsets your bitch. I've known a litter to reabsorb when a bitch got over stressed at her 28 day scan.


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## sid&kira

casandra said:


> Some bitches stress out a lot when they are handled by strangers. Though your vet should not be a stranger or someone that upsets your bitch. I've known a litter to reabsorb when a bitch got over stressed at her 28 day scan.


really? over a vet visit??

kira loves the vet!! tho i know many dogs dont


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## archielee

My girl gets stressed at the vets but my boy loves going he will do anything for a treat


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## Tanya1989

One of mie will do anything for a treat but the other one turns like a savage beast in the vets :scared:... well... not savage.... more like a nervous wreck lol, but takes his anxiety out on other dogs


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## luvmydogs

I don't have any check done on my dogs when pregnant. I am paranoid about them catching anything in the vets, and I don't think its worth it, you never get the exact number of pups anyway.


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## archielee

I didn't take my girl to the vets when she was pregnant i didnt went to upset her or her to pick something up, i had a home scan done and they said they could see 4 puppies and thats what she had


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## Guest

She is still okay lying in her box a lot her temp fluctuating between 96.8 and 97.7. Has been panting slightly when came through to living room from kitchen but has stopped again. Thanks for all your support guys


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## luvmydogs

I did have a bitch scanned once. They said she had 5 pups in there, and none came, it was a phantom. 

Good luck with this litter!


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## archielee

luvmydogs said:


> I did have a bitch scanned once. They said she had 5 pups in there, and none came, it was a phantom.
> 
> Good luck with this litter!


Was that at the vet or sheep scanner


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## luvmydogs

At the vet - but he was a country vet who scanned all kinds of livestock. I wouldn't scan again. I treat my bitch as if she's pregnant once mated, so I don't see the point.


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## foxy81

tracythejambo said:


> She is still okay lying in her box a lot her temp fluctuating between 96.8 and 97.7. Has been panting slightly when came through to living room from kitchen but has stopped again. Thanks for all your support guys


panting is good, hope you have the coffee on standby..lol
good luck and im sure one of us will be online if you have any questions


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## slbrown2108

out of interest what breed is she


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## Acacia86

slbrown2108 said:


> out of interest what breed is she


She is a Collie cross Lab it was said in the first post


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## ninja

tracythejambo said:


> Hi I am new to this forum but am having a problem with my lab/spaniel who I believe is 64 days pregnant.





tracythejambo said:


> yes it was a planned pregnancy.


:rolleyes5: :rolleyes5: :rolleyes5:

i do hope things go well and your girl is ok


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## archielee

Lab/spaniel


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## Guest

She is a lab/spaniel


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## archielee

Hows she doing, it was only 3 weeks ago i was sitting up waiting and waiting


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## rocco33

What breed or cross breed is the sire?


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## Guest

She is okay still lying in box but temp has gone up to 99 it was down at 97.7 at 9.30. Have got my heating on in case pups are due tonight. Does rise in temperature mean it might not be tonight now. 

Glad your puppies are safe and well, how exciting.:thumbup:


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## Guest

he is a springer spaniel


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## Tanya1989

tracythejambo said:


> She is okay still lying in box but temp has gone up to 99 it was down at 97.7 at 9.30. Have got my heating on in case pups are due tonight. Does rise in temperature mean it might not be tonight now.
> 
> Glad your puppies are safe and well, how exciting.:thumbup:


I'm still inclined to think early hours, providing that the previous readings were correct


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## sid&kira

hope shes doing ok 

Whats the reason for the breeding?


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## Guest

Hi Tanya

All the previous readings as from 9.30 this morning were between 96.8 to 97.7 this one has been the highest since 7.15 last night where it was 98.6.


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## Tanya1989

A number of low readings means they were probably accurate. Yep.... I still say early hours


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## Guest

We have bred her because she is an excellent, well natured, obedient dog and we are going to keep a pup from her. She is from a local man who has an excellent reputation in breeding dogs and because of this and her nature we have a lot of people wanting pups.


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## Guest

Lets hope your right I want to meet these puppies lol


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## sid&kira

tracythejambo said:


> Lets hope your right I want to meet these puppies lol


have you got a pic of her and the sire?

and we must see pics of the pups when they decide to show themselves


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## Guest

I have put her as my profile pic can you see it


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## sid&kira

tracythejambo said:


> I have put her as my profile pic can you see it


yes she is lovely, looks more lab than anything else to me 

im off to bed in a few so good luck with the whelp (i'd be no help anyway lol im no breeder)


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## ninja

tracythejambo said:


> I have put her as my profile pic can you see it


if you put her as your avatar pic she will appear next to your name on your posts


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## Guest

sid&kira said:


> yes she is lovely, looks more lab than anything else to me
> 
> im off to bed in a few so good luck with the whelp (i'd be no help anyway lol im no breeder)


yes she is very like a lab, thanks for your help tonight hopefully I will have puppies soon x


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## Jackie99

Best of luck with your pooch. Sounds like it could be a long night whatever way it goes. She looks lovely by the way.


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## Guest

ninja said:


> if you put her as your avatar pic she will appear next to your name on your posts


ok i wil do thanks


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## lillynharry

She's lovely. Good luck with everything.x


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## shazalhasa

when Coco was having her pups, the temp drop was the day before but I can't remember what time now without checking (still have the book) she started popping them out at 10am so yours won't be long 

I'll be back on here first thing to see how things are going, I'd love to stay up and keep watch but it's been a long weekend and I have to do school run 

Best of luck with everything xx


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## mitch4

good luck :thumbup:


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## Guest

Morning guys,

Well its 7.52 and still nothing she was very restless last night kept going into her whelping box and cleaning herself. I am in a dilemma do I hold off or go to the vet, I am dreading thinking its a phantom pregnancy. She wont eat this morning (except 2 biscuits I gave her in her bed) and wont leave her box. I am really tired now lol


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## Tanya1989

I'd ring the vet and let them know but I wouldn't go and see them, moving her might delay her going in to full blown labour


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## RachyBobs

Good luck.....


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## Jackie99

Bless her, she seems to be going through it a bit. Wishing you both the best of luck and watching the thread for good news!


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## mollydolly01

luvmydogs said:


> I did have a bitch scanned once. They said she had 5 pups in there, and none came, it was a phantom.
> 
> Good luck with this litter!


Yeah, i had my girl scanned and they said 6, she only had 3. Think he cvounted the same 3 twice.


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## Tanya1989

It is mre likely that she absorbed rather than counting babies that aren't there


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## stephwiggy

Tanya1989 said:


> It is mre likely that she absorbed rather than counting babies that aren't there


Sorry this is off topic but WOW just had a look at your website you dogs are sooo beautiful !! :thumbup:


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## Tanya1989

Awww, thanks x


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## deb53

Just caught up on the thread.

Any news? How is Mum doing?

xx


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## luvmydogs

Tanya1989 said:


> It is mre likely that she absorbed rather than counting babies that aren't there


My first thought was that she reabsorbed them, and I asked the vet if this was the case. He said its not that common and if it does happen there is usually some other indication eg discharge.

Any news re: this litter? She's quite late now isn't she?


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## deb53

luvmydogs said:


> My first thought was that she reabsorbed them, and I asked the vet if this was the case. He said its not that common and if it does happen there is usually some other indication eg discharge.
> 
> Any news re: this litter? She's quite late now isn't she?


Wondering if she is visiting the vets?

Hope all is ok


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## Guest

Just got back from work (friend was in on standby) she okay still lying in her box, slightly shaking, no panting. Covers in box all messed up so I guess she is nesting. Phoned the vet they said I could get her scanned but couldnt get an appt until later on today but they would not be concerned until wednesday passed. He also told me to stop taking temperature and give her peace. Going with that advice and yours Tanya and hopefully something will happen tonight. She is looking very sorry for herself now.


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## Tanya1989

Just out of interest where abouts do you live?


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## HorseyGirly

tracythejambo i am trying to send you a PM but you need to empty your inbox so i can PM you!:thumbup:


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## Guest

I am outside edinburgh Tanya


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## Guest

have just emptied it lol


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## canuckjill

how's everything going?


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## Guest

still just lying about she has come out her box now and it sitting with a teddy but nothing else.


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## Guest

Really startin to wonder if this is a false pregnancy if nothing tonight going to vet in the morning. I am so tired but I would love to stay up tonight to see pups. She has been digging her bed today and has now got her favourite teddy with her.


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## Lucylewis0

tracythejambo said:


> Really startin to wonder if this is a false pregnancy if nothing tonight going to vet in the morning. I am so tired but I would love to stay up tonight to see pups. She has been digging her bed today and has now got her favourite teddy with her.


Have you felt any puppies moving?


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## Guest

I was sure I felt something but its hard to tell between puppies and her breathing (I am not an expert in this lol)


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## Oenoke

Or have you got a stethoscope, I couldn't feel alot of movement from Skye's pups, but that may have been because there were only 4, so had quite a bit of room inside her, but I could hear their little heartbeats with a stethoscope.


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## dexter

has she got any milk?


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## Guest

I havent got one sometimes I think I feel pups but now I am just not sure whole thing is really getting to me now. She hasnt got any milk, glands are very swollen but nothing coming out


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## mollydolly01

Oenoke said:


> Or have you got a stethoscope, I couldn't feel alot of movement from Skye's pups, but that may have been because there were only 4, so had quite a bit of room inside her, but I could hear their little heartbeats with a stethoscope.


I couldnt feel Molly's pups move at all, she wasnt very big either, i was starting to think she had reabsorbed but she went on and she had 3.


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## dexter

tbo i'd make an appointment to see the vet. that way you'll know for sure and not have any more sleepless nights lol


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## Guest

it is so hard to judge isnt it because every dog is different. Vet said if she doesnt have them by wednesday they will need to see her so I definately going to make an appt for tomorrow


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## deb53

Does she have any discharge at all or any licking behind.?

Or is she just mothering the teddy?

I too would get her checked as Dexter said


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## dexter

tracythejambo said:


> it is so hard to judge isnt it because every dog is different. Vet said if she doesnt have them by wednesday they will need to see her so I definately going to make an appt for tomorrow


has vet actually said she's in whelp?


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## Guest

She is licking herself a lot not sure about the teddy she not got it all the time, she is lying in the bedroom just now and she hasnt got it. Vet just said could be a false pregnancy and to stop taking her temperature because the more peace she gets the happier she will be. If nothing by wednesday take her down but as I said I not sure anymore so going tomorrow.


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## rocco33

Are you not sleeping with her? I wouldn't leave her unattended from now on as she shouldn't be going through whelping without someone there. I spend 24hrs with them for the first couple of weeks.


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## Guest

yes she is with somebody all the time if not meits my partner.


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## Tanya1989

Its a tricky one.... she is showing signs of first stage labour.... shivering, panting, nesting etc but you are in doubt that she is pregnant at all? Is there anyone (a breeder) local to you that could have a look at her?


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## Guest

Hi Tanya,

The guy that we got her from who has had many litters over the years has said that he thinks she is and he saw her today and even thought she had changed since friday. I have phoned the vet and have got an appt for tomorrow at 3.30. If she is in 1st stage labour would u expect her to stay lying down in box she is up and walking about been out for a pee. Sorry for being a pain Tanya


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## Tanya1989

They often pace about in first stage, trying to get comfy, clingy


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## archiebaby

do her eyes look a little glazed over like she is having pains? usually their eyes are a dead give away that they are under way?


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## mollydolly01

tracythejambo said:


> She is licking herself a lot not sure about the teddy she not got it all the time, she is lying in the bedroom just now and she hasnt got it. Vet just said could be a false pregnancy and to stop taking her temperature because the more peace she gets the happier she will be. If nothing by wednesday take her down but as I said I not sure anymore so going tomorrow.


My girl has had a phantom pregnancy, produced milk, but didnt put on any weight or do any digging. Next time when she was pregnant she walked around for hours with a teddy in her mouth and gave birth to 7, sounds to me she is pregnant. Good luck :thumbup:


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## Guest

her eyes were very strange this morning while she was in her bed but seems to be okay now, I am really confused!!!


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## archiebaby

tracythejambo said:


> her eyes were very strange this morning while she was in her bed but seems to be okay now, I am really confused!!!


mmmm they usually go into a complete stare, you really cannot mistake it and they squint their little eyes with the pains even though you cant visably see the contractions yet? this has nearly always been the indication from mine


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## Guest

she has definately put on a lot of weight and when she sits down she is very broad round her rib cage. She is walked a lot and is very lean and fit normally so you can really notice it. She is still going about with her teddy now so hopefully thats a good sign, thanks for all your support guys I have definately learned my lesson here - get a scan done lol

She seems to have got a surge of energy now!!!


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## luvmydogs

archiebaby said:


> mmmm they usually go into a complete stare, you really cannot mistake it and they squint their little eyes with the pains even though you cant visably see the contractions yet? this has nearly always been the indication from mine


I have never seen this! maybe my dogs are unusual lol

What day is she on now?


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## Guest

she is day 65


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## dexter

each bitch is different and hardly any read the books.lol

for instance, (now i hardly ever take temp when near whelping) my last bitch who whelped showed absolutely no signs of whelping , she just sat in front of me grunted and out popped a pup lol . the other 4 came inside 2 hours and that was it. no restlessness no scratching nowt.

you do need to get her checked by the vet. walking round with a teddy indicates to me a phanthom, i may be wrong!


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## Guest

yes I am going to the vet tomorrow, we will need to wait and see if anything happens tonight. I thought the teddy thing might be a comfort.


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## dexter

tracythejambo said:


> yes I am going to the vet tomorrow, we will need to wait and see if anything happens tonight. I thought the teddy thing might be a comfort.


ok great u r going to vet. i personally have never had a bitch take a teddy around with her when she's about to whelp.


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## Guest

she hasnt got it now but seems to have got some energy now and is up and down a lot


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## dexter

well not long now and you will know for definate. keep us posted.


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## luvmydogs

dexter said:


> ok great u r going to vet. i personally have never had a bitch take a teddy around with her when she's about to whelp.


Neither have I. I also know now that you should usually be able to feel them moving. (after one of mine had a phantom) However I've never had a bitch have a small litter.


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## Lealou

do you have someone with you for the birth if this is your first time?? i am not too far from you myself and have delivered several of my own and my friends litter if you need any help lea xx


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## archiebaby

dexter said:


> ok great u r going to vet. i personally have never had a bitch take a teddy around with her when she's about to whelp.


one of mine had a fluffy slipper, she had it in the whelping box with her before whelping and kept it in there even when the puppies were born for days and days,everytime i took the slipper out she would take it back in again  but also had a bitch carry a teddy who had a phantom


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## Guest

yes my partner is here Lea and he has had quite a few litters when he stayed with his mum and dad. The breeder we got Tyne from stays at the end of my street and we can get his help but thank you very much for your help. I just hope and pray that she is pregnant. x


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## Lealou

thats good you have people there fingers crossed for your wee girlie xx


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## Guest

archiebaby said:


> one of mine had a fluffy slipper, she had it in the whelping box with her before whelping and kept it in there even when the puppies were born for days and days,everytime i took the slipper out she would take it back in again  but also had a bitch carry a teddy who had a phantom


could you tell the difference between phantom and real pregnancy. I thought that phantom pregnancies were more obsessive behaviour ie gathering toys in bed etc and did she put on weight because although Tyne is not hugely fat she has put on a fair bit weight


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## Tanya1989

There are no differences between a phantom and a true pregnancy apart from a hormone called relaxin which is produced when the foetuses stick to the wall of the uterus. They even put on weight as though pregnant and their abdomen swells


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## swarthy

Tanya1989 said:


> There are no differences between a phantom and a true pregnancy apart from a hormone called relaxin which is produced when the foetuses stick to the wall of the uterus. They even put on weight as though pregnant and their abdomen swells


Yes - my girl had a bad phantom after her first litter - even though I knew he hadn't - I became convinced somehow the boy must have got to her  she was leaving a milk trail everywhere she sat and really large - thankfully he hadn't and she wasn't - but sheesh - I became more convinced she was pregnant that time than I did with her second litter


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## Lucylewis0

Maisie kept gathering my children shoes and cuddly toys in her stage one of labour, she kept picking them up and burying them in her whelping box 
Fingers crossed for you and good luck at the vets today xx


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## Guest

Lucylewis0 said:


> Maisie kept gathering my children shoes and cuddly toys in her stage one of labour, she kept picking them up and burying them in her whelping box
> Fingers crossed for you and good luck at the vets today xx


morning guys it is 8.10 on day 66 and Tyne has still no puppies think it is a phantom now, she has been restless throughout the night and been in her box digging again. Not interested in the teddy. I am so dissapointed.


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## Tanya1989

Did you have progesterone testing to ensure the day she ovulated?


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## Guest

Tanya1989 said:


> Did you have progesterone testing to ensure the day she ovulated?


yes Tanya we did. I am still not 100% sure she is not pregnant because I am sure something kicked me on friday afternoon when I clapped her and my friend saw it but maybe I am just going MAD now lol. She was at the vets in november so they will have a record of her weight because she has put a lot of weight on and when she lies on her side you can feel a ball shape so needs looked at!!!

Things never straight forward in my life!!!


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## Tanya1989

So is 66 days from mating or from day of ovulation?


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## Guest

Tanya1989 said:


> So is 66 days from mating or from day of ovulation?


66 days from mating this is why the vet said that if she is pregnant they wont intervene until wednesday


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## Tanya1989

and did mating happen 2 days after ovulation? So she is 68 days past ovulation?


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## Guest

Tanya1989 said:


> and did mating happen 2 days after ovulation? So she is 68 days past ovulation?


yes what does that all mean Tanya


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## Tanya1989

I personally think it is probably a phantom now... not many bitches go past 63 days post ovulation without complications. I always progesterone test mine and my vet won't let them go past day 64 without intervening. I would be try and get her scanned this morning as soon as you can to check if there are puppies in there and if there are to see if they are alive. Do you have a number of a canine/ sheep scanner that can come out to you before your vets appointment?


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## dexter

at least you'll know for sure today, what time's your vets appointment?


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## Tanya1989

3.30 I think dexter.... I'd want to know before then, given the day, to make sure everything is ok


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## Pug_D

I'd be banging on the door now really asking to be seen.


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## Guest

hi guys been to work, friend been keeping an eye on her. Going at 3.30 so will be leaving about 3 o clock. She seems okay though I felt a wriggle but her breathing is so strong it is hard for me to tell. Vet going to feel about and take temp and weight if still not sure scan. When she lies on her side there is a bulge than you can cup your hands on so if not pregnant need to find out if everything ok


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## Tanya1989

I would make sure vet scans.... if puppies are there you need to make sure they have a heartbeat.... if they don't they won't stimulate labour


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## Guest

Yes I will. I will report back as soon as I am home. Fingers crossed for us xx


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## Tanya1989

They are crossed for you. I hope things are ok x


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## Spaniel mad

Everything crossed this end for you x


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## luvmydogs

OMG the wait is killing me, I can only imagine how hard it is for you! Keeping everything crossed for a good outcome.


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## cav

good luck at the vets if this was my dog she would have been there sooner

i can always see and feel movement as well even when my dog had a singelton(reason i always have a scan)
i bet the wait is driving you mad


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## Bearpaw

Hope all goes well at the vets and your girl is ok xxx


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## Pug_D

< really hopes the vets scans her and she doesn't come back still not being sure either way >


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## cav

Pug_D said:


> < really hopes the vets scans her and she doesn't come back still not being sure either way >


a good vet should able feel them and i would insist on a scan


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## canuckjill

hope all is okay....Jill
ps To all the people answering these posts this is what the forum is all about helping someone and their animal whne needed. Big high five to all of you, and Tanya if I ever decide to breed a litter I hope your around....Jill


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## cat43

oh i hope everythings ok , and the vet will find out for sure, the not knowing must be horrible


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## Guest

well guys I am back and Tyne is not pregnant it is a false pregnancy. We are gutted as are the kids. Why is it when you can provide a caring loving home for puppies it doesnt happen but owners that just let their dogs go out and dont care fall pregnant - sorry just feeling sorry for us and Tyne.

Vet said there was nothing there to feel and no need for ultrasound. She has taken a blood test to make sure no infection in uterus (will call back today with results). She advised to get her spayed but we said we want a litter from her so got advice about when to get scans etc for the future.


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## Tanya1989

Oh I'm so sorry, I know how much you were looking forward to puppies. But I think the vet is right... If she has phantoms as severe as this I would have my bitch spayed too. Best thing to do is take her toys off her and cut down on the food and protein and increase her exercise. 

So sorry once again, but I wouldn't risk my bitch going through this again.


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## archiebaby

ah bad luck, but there is always next time how old is tyne?


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## rocco33

I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment.

Can I ask why you want to breed from her? (she's a lab/springer x isnt' she) and have you had her hips, elbows scored and eyes tested?


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## Guest

We are gutted and because she is a star we wanted to breed her and keep a bitch from her so might try again, its been quite emotional so not sure. She is only 3 next month so not old but she only comes into season yearly unless this changes again


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## Guest

Yes we did have all that done end of last year and it was all okay and labrador/spaniel is a very good crossbreed.


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## Lucylewis0

Arrr... sorry to hear your news, you must all be so gutted


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## Guest

Lucylewis0 said:


> Arrr... sorry to hear your news, you must all be so gutted


yes we are but the main thing is Tyne is okay we just need to get things back to normal ie long walks etc again


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## swarthy

tracythejambo said:


> Yes we did have all that done end of last year and it was all okay and labrador/spaniel is a very good crossbreed.


I didn't realise the BVA Panel scored cross breeds, you learn something new every day - I wonder how you gauge what score would be satisfactory on hips without a cross mean average.

You are aware the eye tests are an annual affair. not a one off test?

How on earth did you manage to find a health tested stud dog to use on her?


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## canuckjill

The stud dog is a lab if I remember correctly, and maybe the tests came back good for both dogs. Overhere tyou can get any dog scored for HD not sure how you would know the best score but you should be able to ell if its high for either breed. Anyway guess its really not up to us....Jill


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## Pug_D

And again... a thrad comes back to health tests 

She did not ASK about them so why start going on about them?!

I'm so close to leaving this place because of it, I am health testing my pugs in June come their 1st Birthday so its not like I'm against it! Far from it! I am just sick of people on here pushing it onto to people in every thread posted!

They are important, but its also important not to make people feel like they don't want to post anything here because they will jsut get bombarded with health test replies!


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## swarthy

Pug_D said:


> And again... a thrad comes back to health tests
> 
> She did not ASK about them so why start going on about them?!
> 
> I'm so close to leaving this place because of it, I am health testing my pugs in June come their 1st Birthday so its not like I'm against it! Far from it! I am just sick of people on here pushing it onto to people in every thread posted!
> 
> They are important, but its also important not to make people feel like they don't want to post anything here because they will jsut get bombarded with health test replies!


I didn't raise it - someone else did - however, it IS a valid question -

If people are breeding without health testing, then you signficantly increase the risk that either parent is unsound (a dog's hips can be shot and show NO symptoms), which in turn increases the risk of the puppies developing inherited conditions, some of which can make them go blind, require thousands of pounds worth of surgery or even mean a long slow painful death.

I don't see therefore, why it is unreasonable to ask anyone intent on breeding whether they have undertaken the health tests to ensure that puppies are given the best possible start in life.

Surely, if someone loves their animal and wishes to breed, then they have a duty to ensure that they have taken the best steps possible to try and give the pups the best possible start in life.


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## Tanya1989

Pug_D said:


> And again... a thrad comes back to health tests
> 
> She did not ASK about them so why start going on about them?!
> 
> I'm so close to leaving this place because of it, I am health testing my pugs in June come their 1st Birthday so its not like I'm against it! Far from it! I am just sick of people on here pushing it onto to people in every thread posted!
> 
> They are important, but its also important not to make people feel like they don't want to post anything here because they will jsut get bombarded with health test replies!


People are pushing it because it is so important and it is rare that owners of pets (and some show dogs) are a) aware of testing and b) think it is ok not to do them as they appear healthy.

Thankfully they have been done in this case... that is responsible breeding


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## swarthy

I run, in conjunction with a friend, a website advising people on what health tests they should be looking for before buying a puppy.

There is no income generation from this site, it grew solely from our love of our breed and my friends own experience with her 'bargain basement pup' that has so far cost *over £15,000 in vets bills*

It is worth having a look at some of the stories of dogs on the site who have come from unhealth tested parents and the heartbreak and pain both the dogs and their owners have gone through

Labrador Health brings you the story of Charlie, the Bionic Pup

Labrador Health: Your stories

At least four of these dogs are no longer with us as a result of their experiences


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## rocco33

Swarthy, yes, cross breeds can be hip scored, although as you say, I'm not sure that they have a breed mean score to compare them to.

Tracythejambo, I do feel for you, but in all honesty, I too would get her spayed. Sadly she doesn't sound like she'd be a good bitch to breed from. Severe phantoms on there own are a problem that I wouldn't want a bitch to keep going through, but added to that she is only in season once a year doesn't sound good. In my experience these difficult to get into whelp bitches are better off not being bred from. _If_ they do get into whelp they often experience problems. It's like natures way of saying no. I understand how disappointing it can be to have a bitch that ticks all the boxes - I've been there too - a superb bitch, a long list of working and competition homes eager for a pup, great health scores, very talented and a suberb temperament - no problem with her seasons of phantoms but she would not let a dog mate her. I regret to this day that she didn't have a litter - her pups would have been superb, but I didn't think it fair on her. In your shoes, I would get her spayed and go back to her breeder for another pup from similar breeding - it is more likely to be like her than any pups she has anyway.


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## rocco33

> I'm so close to leaving this place because of it, I am health testing my pugs in June come their 1st Birthday so its not like I'm against it! Far from it! I am just sick of people on here pushing it onto to people in every thread posted!


As others have said, it is because it IS important, not just for the OP but it helps educate those reading too. The reality of breeding is far from the I want/have cute puppies picture that can be painted. Sometimes hard decisions have to be taken and sometimes things go wrong. It is tough and to breed you need some resilience and emotional detachment in order to make those decisions and anyone who is offended by asking such simple questions would not be offended if they are doing things right.


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## Guest

Thanks for all your comments guys and yes we did take the decision to breed her very seriously and while I understand that a lot of people breed for different reasons ie money I did not. I am very dissapointed but I take on board what Tanya and Rocco say and when the next season is due to start, she has always had 2 seasons but she skipped one last august, I will take professional advice from the vet. My main issue now is getting Tyne back into shape physically (as she has is carrying a lot of weight she never even had 3 weeks ago) and emotionally ie taking the box and limiting her teddies.


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## colliemerles

i am sorry to hear she isnt pregnant, and i wish you all the luck for the future, whatever you decide to do,


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## Bearpaw

Ah,sorry to hear she wasnt pregnant,bless her.Phantoms are so confusing!!
Lets hope her symptoms begin to lesson soon with no ill effect. Wasnt meant to be this time


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## dexter

tracythejambo said:


> Thanks for all your comments guys and yes we did take the decision to breed her very seriously and while I understand that a lot of people breed for different reasons ie money I did not. I am very dissapointed but I take on board what Tanya and Rocco say and when the next season is due to start, she has always had 2 seasons but she skipped one last august, I will take professional advice from the vet. My main issue now is getting Tyne back into shape physically (as she has is carrying a lot of weight she never even had 3 weeks ago) and emotionally ie taking the box and limiting her teddies.


i'd get her spayed , i have a bitch who had the most terrible phantoms, i so wanted a litter from her as she went back to my old boy and carries some old lines in her pedigree, however the need of the dog came first and not mine i had her spayed. She has never had a litter and is far happier now.


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