# Little help needed understanding show rules



## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

ok.......
Here's where im confused 
Best pup in show/group rules- unbeaten puppy
about withdrawing for other classes at that show

here an example of where im confussed........

say........ classes entered are
breed class or avnsc puppy
av puppy stakes

So...... if you win you breed class you would have withdraw from av puppy stake class to be able to complete in group, best pup in show......etc

but what if the av stake classes have their own championship?

also if you did not win in your breed class but you won the av puppy stake class would that mean that you could not take part in best pup in show??


hmmmmm..........: i'm confused just typing it.....:lol:


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

me too lol


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> ok.......
> Here's where im confused
> Best pup in show/group rules- unbeaten puppy
> about withdrawing for other classes at that show
> ...


Ok I am only going on what Ian was trying to explain to me the other day so I might get this right.
You withdraw from the others so as not to get beaten, but you cannot withdraw from other breed classes, so if I had Willow in minor puppy I could not then withdraw her from puppy if she won Minor puppy.
You would withdraw from any AV or stake classes to keep your unbeaten status and carry on into BOB BOS etc

Winner of AV puppy and puppy stakes would go into Best puppy I think?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Ok I am only going on what Ian was trying to explain to me the other day so I might get this right.
> You withdraw from the others so as not to get beaten, but you cannot withdraw from other breed classes, so if I had Willow in minor puppy I could not then withdraw her from puppy if she won Minor puppy.
> You would withdraw from any AV or stake classes to keep your unbeaten status and carry on into BOB BOS etc
> 
> Winner of AV puppy and puppy stakes would go into Best puppy I think?


hmmm....... now even more confused :lol: so if willow won her breed class minor puppy but came 2nd in puppy class she would then be beaten so wouldn't be able to complete in BOB BPIS... etc?????


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Yes I think thats right,
cos technically then she wouldnt be the best puppy.


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Yes I think thats right,
> cos technically then she wouldnt be the best puppy.


Hmmmmm...... so in theory it better just enter just minor puppy if they are 6-9 months x
im still confused about the other stuff tho :confused1:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> Hmmmmm...... so in theory it better just enter just minor puppy if they are 6-9 months x
> im still confused about the other stuff tho :confused1:


Ive asked Tashi to come over and have a look and help us lol

I've ordered this book as well that amazon have promised will be with my by 1pm tomorrow, 
Showing Your Dog: A Beginner&#39;s Guide: Amazon.co.uk: Elaine Everest: Books


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

To go in Best Puppy in Group you have to be declared either best puppy in breed or best any variety not seperately classified puppy, if you win best puppy in breed and wish to withdraw from any further puppy classes to stay an unbeaten puppy you just speak to the relevant steward in the ring. If it is a champ show and you win best puppy in breed and there is a puppy group on the day then you would normally withdraw from the puppy stakes to enable you to go into the 'big ring' 

hope this helps


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Lucylewis0 said:


> Hmmmmm...... so in theory it better just enter just minor puppy if they are 6-9 months x
> im still confused about the other stuff tho :confused1:


Hi Lucy I would stick to just minor puppy until you get into the swing of things, even if it is just for your first few shows


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

We're only entering Holly into minor puppy as she's just turned 6 months. If she does good, we may enter her into minor puppy and puppy. I'd just enter one class at a time for now...


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

tashi said:


> Hi Lucy I would stick to just minor puppy until you get into the swing of things, even if it is just for your first few shows


that's all I have entered at moment anyway well puppy class when there is no minor puppy class but have also entered the puppy stake classes for a couple of open shows. I have entered one champ show at the moment and i have entered MPB and proplan pup of the year stakes

so to get a best puppy in breed minor puppy bitch would complete against minor puppy dog, puppy bitch and puppy dog at the end of breed judging??

if a champ show doesn't have a best puppy in show does the same rule apply regarding a class like pro plan pup of the year class???

sorry about sounding dumb......
so if... example- small open show
breed classes are mixed bitch/dog
puppy
junior
post grad
open

say a dog won the puppy class (they would be best pup in breed/avnsc?)
would they then withdrawn from the av stake class in order to remain unbeaten to complete in group and BPIS?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Lucylewis0 said:


> that's all I have entered at moment anyway well puppy class when there is no minor puppy class but have also entered the puppy stake classes for a couple of open shows. I have entered one champ show at the moment and i have entered MPB and proplan pup of the year stakes
> 
> so to get a best puppy in breed minor puppy bitch would complete against minor puppy dog, puppy bitch and puppy dog at the end of breed judging??
> If they are sex classes minor puppy would compete against puppy bitch, then would go to challenge the best puppy dog for best puppy in breed
> ...


Stewards would check to see if there were any puppies entered in say junior and the winner of the puppy class would challenge that pup (even if it was 3rd in junior as long as it wasnt beaten by puppies it can challenge) then it is up to the owner to decide whether to withdraw to go in the group or not


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

tashi said:


> Stewards would check to see if there were any puppies entered in say junior and the winner of the puppy class would challenge that pup (even if it was 3rd in junior as long as it wasnt beaten by puppies it can challenge) then it is up to the owner to decide whether to withdraw to go in the group or not


Oh ok.... i'm understanding a bit better now  thankyou
I guess i'll understand it fully when I start showing (next week :scared
Im not saying i'll ever get there with Daisy but it's good to know what i'm kinda talking about. A friend also wants me me to handle her Welsh Springer, she's a stunning and bred by a champ show judge and apparently she's a real cracker and they have high hope for her............why they are asking me to handle her god only knows, but they keep saying that she really responds to me


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Lucylewis0 said:


> ok.......
> Here's where im confused
> Best pup in show/group rules- unbeaten puppy
> about withdrawing for other classes at that show
> ...


There are general understandings of the rules - HOWEVER - please don't take anything for granted - because a lot of societies are changing the rules - Read your schedule BEFORE completing your entry form - and always check any rules in the catalogue when at the show because some societies do seem to place their own interpretation on the rules.

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You win the Breed puppy class - you are not beaten by any other puppies in the challenge - you get Best Puppy in Breed. (placed puppies in any breed class can challenge for Best Puppy in Breed).

You are eligible to withdraw from the AV Gundog Puppy (or other AV classes) to compete in the Group (or Best Puppy in Show for non group competition).

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If there is no puppy class, you enter another breed class, e.g. Junior, Graduate, Open etc.

You do not need to win your class to get Best Puppy in Breed - you need to be the highest place puppy - if there are puppies in more than one class - then they will challenge for Best Puppy.

Again, you can withdraw from the AV classes.

================================

If there are breed classes for your breed but no puppy class and you opt not to enter the breed classes, you would need to win the AV Gundog Puppy class in order to go forward for the group (or BPIS for non group shows).

=============================

AVNSC classes only come into play if there are NO classes listed for your breed.

A dog falling into the AVNSC category (puppy or otherwise) cannot go forward for the Group / Best in Show from the AV classes unless they have also entered the AVNSC classes - and then they would have to win best AVNSC puppy or dog to be eligible.

Again - they can withdraw from the AV classes.

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If the AV classes have the same judge as the breed classes and the group, it is a pointless exercise withdrawing from the AV Classes - if the judge doesn't like your dog then, the group isn't going to change it.

If the judge does like your dog, then the AV classes give it another chance to shine 

I did this once with one of my girls, she went Best of Breed and BPIB at 9 months, she got down to the final 8 in BIS and went Best AV gundog and Best Puppy in show (that was a VERY good day )

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If your dog has won Best Puppy and the AV class judge is different, sometimes, it is worth withdrawing - I did this a few weeks ago as I wanted to go forward for the group - the pup that won the AV Puppy class went Puppy Group 1 and BPIS - we went Puppy Group 3 

==========================

Some points to remember - A single win at an Open show outside puppy in a breed class, disqualifies you from Maiden Classes. Three wins outside puppy disqualifies you from Novice classes (obviously subject to show eligibility qualifying dates which are usually 7 days before the postal closing date for show entries).

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Finally, wins at limit shows do NOT count towards your tally for eligbility of classes at Open or Champ shows, so use them to your advantage, they can be great fun  and competition is usually surprisingly fierce 

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Edited to add that often Societies hold the Stakes classes after BIS / BPIS which gives people the chance to compete - if they don't - the same rules about eligibility for BIS remain.

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The only class that won't affect eligibility to go forward for BPIS / BIS is the Brace


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

swarthy said:


> There are general understandings of the rules - HOWEVER - please don't take anything for granted - because a lot of societies are changing the rules - Read your schedule BEFORE completing your entry form - and always check any rules in the catalogue when at the show because some societies do seem to place their own interpretation on the rules.
> 
> ===============================
> 
> ...


 great it's all starting to make sence now :thumbup:


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