# Are my rats fighting or playing?



## Haven2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

So, I've had my one rat Slash for about a month and I love him to death. I've gotten him friends before but the first friend we got him we thougth they were fighting so my mom had me take him back. The second rat we got sadly died the day after we got him. Yesterday, we got a dumbo rat for a cage mate. I'm going back to school this week and I didn't want Slash to be lonely. But, he always seemed fine without a friend. But I woke up from my nap and they made like squeaking noises and it seemed as if they were fighting. Shoud I split them up? I don't have anywhere to put Axl so if I need to split them should I but him him a large box? I just don't want one of them getting hurt. So are they playing or fighting. I'm not sure.. Slash was on top of Axl and he had his paws on his head and, Axl flipped over on his back and they rolled around before I broke it up. Are they fine and just playing and I'm just worrying to much or should I be concerned?


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

How old are they? 

I'm guessing since you have no where to put Axel that you just put them both in the cage Slash was using? Did you try to introduce them in a neutral space (ie the bath) and clean the cage before putting them in together?

Rats can be territorial and its normally advised to do proper introductions, sometimes over a period of days/weeks depending on the rats so you should have two cages.

What is their body language like? Is their fur fluffed up when their scuffling? Has any blood been drawn?

I normally use the rule "no blood, no foul" but I've always done introductions and thoroughly cleaned the cage that they will be first going into (normally a hamster cage). Then if things go well they get to go in the big cage with no toys and if they're still behaving they get their toys back daily until the cage is full. Any problems and I go back a few steps.


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## Nat88 (Oct 18, 2012)

I think the general rule is there is no blood then leave them be. If they are new to each other they need to decide the hierarchy, or who is going to be the dominant rat. When I introduced two babies to my lone rat there was a lot of kerscuffling and squeaking (some rats are very vocal) but eventually they settled down. 

Did you introduce them in Slash's cage? It's usually easier if you put them in a smaller, neutral cage first to get used to each other before putting them into the first rat's territory.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

It sounds like they are play fighting. It's what rats do. It's normal behaviour.
It's only serious when they have bites or blooded wounds.
Rats should never ever be housed alone they are social animals and although you may think your rat was ok on his own he wasn't! Rats become bored and depressed if alone, they love to snuggle up to each other, groom each other and playfight. 
It would be like you living with dogs but there was no other humans about. How would that make you feel? You'd have no one to play with or talk to. As I said your boys are just play fighting. Perfectly normal.

How old is your current rat and the baby rat? Really you should have same ages baby rats growing up together as they playfight a lot more than adult rats. The adult rat may get fed up with being bothered by the baby. It's Aldo good for two baby rats to grow up together for mental stimulation . That said your adult rat must feel 100 times better now he has company. 

Introductions to new rats must be done on neuteal territory and then if all goes well should be placed in a smaller cage for a couple of days. Only then should they be moved into the main rat cage where it should be scrubbed down with safe pet cleaner to remove existing rat smells.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Another question is are they both males? Often pet shops mis sex them resulting in male and females which equals babies! It's not hard to sex rats as males have huge balls behind there tails. Lol.


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## Haven2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

I just figured that I'd update you guys, I actually ended up taking Axl back because he was really scared and hissed and me and tired to attack my hand. So for my safety my mom had me take him back. I also found out that Slash is not a boy but, a girl. So she is now Helena. I ended up getting Helena another friend named Juliet and they are both very happy and playful.  But haha, my mom saw Axl attempting to have sex with Helena and that's what made us question her gender, so we may or may not end up with baby rats in a couple weeks.. or months.. Not sure, I didn't exactly keep track of what they were doing since I though I had both boys but, oh well.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Haven2000 said:


> I just figured that I'd update you guys, I actually ended up taking Axl back because he was really scared and hissed and me and tired to attack my hand. So for my safety my mom had me take him back. I also found out that Slash is not a boy but, a girl. So she is now Helena. I ended up getting Helena another friend named Juliet and they are both very happy and playful.  But haha, my mom saw Axl attempting to have sex with Helena and that's what made us question her gender, so we may or may not end up with baby rats in a couple weeks.. or months.. *Not sure, I didn't exactly keep track of what they were doing since I though I had both boys but, oh well.*


raising babies a bl**dy hard work- especially unplanned. i suggest you and your mum start reading up on raising rat babies- if there was a male and female together for more than a few days i'd certainly be assuming pregnancy... i had a petshop missex rats before- and i ended up with 15 babies to care for- it was almost harder than puppies!
the Rat Report
Breeding Rats - Sunshine Rats
if you google 'raising rat babies' plenty of links and info will pop up.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

To be honest I don't like this person attitude towards rats! The fact they happily return rats to a pet shop and just exchange them for another rat just like clothes. 
And yes that female is possibly pregnant but no doubt they'll just pile the mum and babies onto the pet shop.

What size cage do your rats live in? Is is an actual rat cage? Does it have hammocks and toys in there for them? Do you get them out everyday for an hour free range on your bed or floor? 

I'm sorry for all the questions but I hate seeing rats housed inappropriately.


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## Haven2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

Of course! I love my babies! I'm only 13 and I had no choice. I felt awful returning him. But, when I clean their cage he became very violent. He hissed and that's when my mom said no more. I had no choice. My rat are very well taken care of and tomorrow we are getting them an even bigger cage. I know that the other rat will find a better home and someone will be able to have the time to calm it. But my mom wouldn't budge she was simply looking at my safety and Helena's safety. You have no right to judge! How on earth would you think I was happy about that?!? I tried for hours for him to allow me to just simply pet him with out him trying to bite me! My girls are handled quite often and they roam on my bed and they sit on my shoulders and come with me around the house. They are very well taken care of and always have been! How dare you say I would return Helena! She is my baby! If she is pregnant then I'll keep 1 or 2 of the babies if I could talk my mom into it I would keep all! I would never return her if she had babies! I've done a lot for her! I would never do such a thing! You are quite rude to assume such a thing!


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## Haven2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

Well thank you for the tip! Oh dear I didn't know it would be very difficult are there any signs to know before hand? I'll let my mom know she's not too happy about the situation but there isn't much she can do about it so she is going with the flow. Thanks for letting me know! I'll start researching.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

If the rat you returned bit you then the pet shop may not sell it out or they may. But it could either end up as snake food or live a life of being alone and miserable. Someone who hasn't the rat knowledge may not think to get the rat neutered which calms them down loads. 

Between the rats age of 12 weeks to a 9 mobths possible 12 months they become hormonal. They are like teenagers. 
Plus dont he suprised to see your girls pinning each other down squeaking, boxing, and chasing each other it's all part of the who's alpha rat. 

As I said in my other post an blood drawn is not normal and by that I mean rat bites on each other open wounds.

I suggest you go on some rat forums to gather info on health of a rat, behaviour, a good rat diet which doesn't include crappy pet shop rat mix lots of fresh veggies and some fruit along with cooked food. 
Babies under 12 weeks need protein foods to help build them up. 
3 times a week on Either good quality cat meat, chicken, fish or baby food. After 12 weeks then protein once a week. 
Curly kale is very good for rats! Raw.
As is most veg raw.

The fancy rats forum is a good place to gather info.

Good about getting a bigger cage.
There is a rat cage calculator online if you type that in.
Put the measurements in and it will tell you how many rats it can hold.
For a pair of rats a cage size of 80cm long 50cm depth and 63cm high is standard. Nothing smaller.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Haven2000 said:


> Of course! I love my babies! I'm only 13 and I had no choice. I felt awful returning him. But, when I clean their cage he became very violent. He hissed and that's when my mom said no more. I had no choice. My rat are very well taken care of and tomorrow we are getting them an even bigger cage. I know that the other rat will find a better home and someone will be able to have the time to calm it. But my mom wouldn't budge she was simply looking at my safety and Helena's safety. You have no right to judge! How on earth would you think I was happy about that?!? I tried for hours for him to allow me to just simply pet him with out him trying to bite me! My girls are handled quite often and they roam on my bed and they sit on my shoulders and come with me around the house. They are very well taken care of and always have been! How dare you say I would return Helena! She is my baby! If she is pregnant then I'll keep 1 or 2 of the babies if I could talk my mom into it I would keep all! I would never return her if she had babies! I've done a lot for her! I would never do such a thing! You are quite rude to assume such a thing!


notice 'the other rat' isnt called axl anymore. rude? maybe not treating your rats like trash to be kicked out would make people happier. my first rat used to bite me inside a cage. i took him to a vet and they said he had cage agression, so i didnt handle him inside the cage and waited for him to come to me. guess what, he didnt bite me again.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

blade100 said:


> If the rat you returned bit you then the pet shop may not sell it out or they may. But it could either end up as snake food or live a life of being alone and miserable.


just noticed the op lives in colorado. then 99% sure that poor axl will end up as snake food. :thumbdown:


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## polishrose (Oct 26, 2011)

One of my rats was a biter when I got him-he bit me hard enough to draw blood a few times.He's a lovely snuggly rat now. Honestly I would be blaming the mother for not researching rats at all and making her child return rats.A 13 year old can't really do much if the mother demands something.If I let my kids get a pet I expect to have to know all about that pet and take responsibility if anything goes wrong, not return a pet to the pet shop like it's a broken kettle


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

CRL said:


> just noticed the op lives in colorado. then 99% sure that poor axl will end up as snake food. :thumbdown:


CRL, thats not helpful imo. you don't know how this kid is feeling about her mom returning the rat... i know when i was younger and Very ill my parents made me rehome a pair of boys and it damned near broke my heart- i sat there in a wheelchair in [email protected] adoptions hyperventilating at the thought, but knowing it had to be done as i signed the paperwork (a member of staffs friend adopted them almost instantly thankfully because they were so lovely!) so telling a 13yr old kid her ex-pet is gonna die isn't helping anyone!

for the record haven- i'm not at all happy with your mothers actions... having never spoken to the woman i can tell you right now i dont like her and her attitude to animals stinks. if thats her opinion on how to deal with a biter then i'm sorry, but i'm really worried about your pg girl. it may well be You dealing with all this (if you can convince her to let you) and its not going to be easy; it will be draining- as they grow they All need individual handling so they make good pets, and there could be upwards of 20 of them.
is there a 'rat fancy' in your area? if you do a search there may well be someone experienced with rats who could help you out- i was lucky enough to have a few people who know what they're doing to help me through it, and it really was priceless! probably the only reason i was able to raise healthy babies And mommas!

some rats bite. there are So many reasons for it- and some may never be 'fixed'. i've had so many theories of why my Jenny bites on occasion, but have just accepted that shes a biter and isn't ever gong to be a cuddly girl like her 'sisters'...


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## Haven2000 (Aug 20, 2013)

CRL said:


> notice 'the other rat' isn't called Axl anymore. rude? maybe not treating your rats like trash to be kicked out would make people happier. my first rat used to bite me inside a cage. i took him to a vet and they said he had cage aggression, so i didn't handle him inside the cage and waited for him to come to me. guess what, he didn't bite me again.


You people are so rude on this page and you're all probably twice my age! I don't refer to him as Axl because I know that him will find another home and he won't be referred to as Axl! I DO NOT treat my rats like trash! Are you kidding me?! I do so much for them! Hell Helena bit me all the time when I first got her and I convinced my mom that I'd spend more time with her and she would get over it. Then she did. She comes to the front of the cage when I come in my room to see me. You have no idea! You need to stop treating people like trash! I love all of my pets! I have never ever done anything bad to any of my rats! I got one rat because I knew it was sick and I didn't want him to die in the pet shop without having a good life first! So I took him home and he stayed with Helena and I bathed him and held him and fed him I let him roam on my bed he was very happy then the next day Mercury sadly died and it broke my heart! You are rude also! I mean seriously! I love all animals and I don't treat my rats badly! Bloody hell! My girls are happy and healthy! You have no right to judge and you need to treat others with respect! How awful of you to act so terribly! You don't know me or how I treat my pets! I tried very hard to get Axl to relax! By the way! When he tried to attack me he wasn't in the cage! I had no choice and you need to grow up!


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## cox (Apr 17, 2018)

I bought two female rats yesterday, sisters I think. I had no issues for 24 hours, however now they keep fighting. There is definitely a more dominant rat. Is there anything I can do to stop them from fighting as I am worried for the timid rat??


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## Philippa Asher (Apr 18, 2018)

Apparently they play fight, my daughter had the same concern but has since learnt they play fight a lot! They don’t come to any harm but can sound as if they’re having a real go. I’d keep an eye on them though just in case there’s any blood but I think you’ll find you get used to it.


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