# Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!



## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

We bought a west highland terrier at 8 weeks old. We are trying crate training, which is hard, very hard. I jumped into buying him i know. my wife works days and i work nights so i thought it would work out but its not. I might have to get rid of him but i really dont want too.

I need some nice advice please.

Mark and keeley

Thank you.


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Why isn't it working out? You're not explaining hte problem to me very well. Is it just the crate training?

You are aware its a baby and things are going to take time? if you are going to give up so quickly in thinking you may have to get rid of him, i'm a bit annoyed by that!


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

mjohnson84 said:


> We bought a west highland terrier at 8 weeks old. We are trying crate training, which is hard, very hard. I jumped into buying him i know. my wife works days and i work nights so i thought it would work out but its not. I might have to get rid of him but i really dont want too.
> 
> I need some nice advice please.
> 
> ...


What part of the crate training are you finding hard. Don't worry most people if they're honest think about giving up for a minute or 2


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## oldDoubletrouble (Sep 21, 2009)

What exactly is the problem?


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

exactly that's what i just asked


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

i know im sorry. its just so hard, a shock to my system i fink. when i put him in his crate he barks for so long he also started to nip me keeley and my boy bobby. if i get help and advice i will keep him. im only 23 and have never had a dog.


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## Stellabella (Jan 8, 2009)

How long have you had him? 

It is very hard especially in the early days .... good for you that you're asking for help, you obviously don't want to just give up!

How often does he go in his crate?


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## kazschow (Oct 23, 2008)

how long has he been with you? what age is he now?


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

bare wiv me im a slow typer i will post are crate training plan.....


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

To be successful, a good crate-training program uses positive reinforcement. The crate should be a comfortable and inviting place for the puppy. To accomplish this, the crate can be lined with a soft towel or padding. Also, the pup should want to enter the crate. Luring is fastest way to associate the crate with being good place to go. To lure the puppy into the crate, use small bits of treats such as pieces of hot dog. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area, leave the door open to let it come out as it wishes. Continue to use this process until the puppy enters the crate on its own for the treat. Be sure to praise the puppy gently while it is in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. Phases such as "kennel up" or go to your room work nicely. Use the association word or phase as you are putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Repeat this procedure several times to get your puppy accustomed to going into its crate. 

The amount of time the puppy spends in the crate is extremely important. Because puppies have poor bladder and bowel control, they should not spend any more than four to five hours in the crate at a time, with the exception of sleeping in the crate during the night. Below is the crate-training schedule I recommend to those who want to use this friendly method of potty training: 

8:00 AM  Take the puppy out of its crate and outside to potty. It is important that you remain with the puppy. If you go inside, the pup might be more concerned with following you instead of defecating. Also, it is very important that you praise the pup for going to the bathroom in a desirable location. Allow the puppy to play for a few minutes. If there is no fence around your yard, be sure to put a leash on the puppy so it can not run away. Bring the puppy back inside, give its breakfast, and crate. After each feeding, you should take the puppy back outside to potty.

12:00 PM - It is time to take the puppy back outside. If the puppy begins to play, ignore the play behavior. If the puppy attempts to engage you in play, stand still with your arms folded across your chest. Dont try to sweet talk the puppy into going potty. Although most dog owners would disagree with me, dogs dont understand spoken language. If you attempt to sweet talk to the puppy, the pup could mistake the tone of your voice with approval. Praise only when the pup completes the task at hand. Again the pup should be allowed a few minutes of playtime and then brought back inside and fed. After feeding, take the pup back outside to provide the opportunity to potty again. Then bring the pup back inside and place in its crate.

5:00 PM  Follow the same procedure as the 12 oclock routine. The only difference is that you may allow the puppy to remain outside of its crate for two to three hours. Constantly supervise the puppy to ensure that it does not potty inside the house. If you can not supervise the pup, place it in a small playpen. These can be purchased at a local pet store or through a pet supply catalogue.

8:00 PM  Take the pup outside to go potty. When it is brought back inside, give it its last meal of the day. A young puppy should be given at least four meals a day until it is four to five months of age. As the puppy grows, the number of meals is decreased and the amount of food is increased for each meal. After this feeding, take the puppy outside before it is returned to its crate.

11:00 PM  This should be the last venture outside for potty for the day. Allow very little playtime during this outing so that the puppy will not expect to be played with during this late hour. Then return the pup to its crate for the night. If the puppy whines or barks to be let out, ignore the behavior. Soon the puppy will learn that its complaining will not be rewarded, and it will soon stop and go to sleep.

Follow this schedule for seven to 10 days. After this time period, reward the pup with more time outside of its crate. If you have to leave the puppy alone for any length of time, it should be placed in its crate. It will learn that the crate is its safe place to den while its master is away.


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## oldDoubletrouble (Sep 21, 2009)

mjohnson84 said:


> i know im sorry. its just so hard, a shock to my system i fink. when i put him in his crate he barks for so long he also started to nip me keeley and my boy bobby. if i get help and advice i will keep him. im only 23 and have never had a dog.


Normal puppy behaviour I am afraid! Sadly you cannot just put a puppy into a cage and expect it to sit there silently! The only help and advise I can give you is that it takes time to train a dog, I would suspect that he is disliking beong in the crate due to lack of stimulation. He should only be in there when he is tired or for his own safety or when you are out!


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

i have had him for 2 weeks


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

what do u think?too long in crate?


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm steering clear of this one - good luck ladies


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Mark,

Firstly, I want to say welcome to the forum! Loads of fab and helpful ppl on here so im hoping you get all the help you so need.

I had a feeling whilst reading the original post that some ppl may respond a little frustratingly at saying "i might have to get rid of him" but Im sure thats the last thing you want to do.

I really hope people will try to help, offer advice and support as you clearly ask for and that this thread doesn't turn into a arguement, as alot of the threads lately have been brilliant!!!!!!!

Mark, I cant offer a great deal of advice, but I did crate train my dogs, and all I can say is PATIENCE. You need alot of it......Puppies will take longer to learn, but be consistent, calm and listen to the advice you get.

Take a look at a couple of articles that I hope could help.

How To Crate Train Your Dog

Quick Guide to Crate-Training Your Dog | Dog & Cat Health, Wellness, Products and Breed Information

I hope it goes well, and wish you lots of luck and please keep us posted with how its going hun.

Lorraine x


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

This is a baby puppy. You have had him just two weeks. He has now been on the earth for ten weeks and you are thinking of 'getting rid' already? Listen to the advice others have given and stop looking for easy fixes.  Pups are hard work and if you cannot cope with this little one then if and when you decide to start a family in the future you are going to find that extremely hard work and babies are not so easy to dispose of.  Sorry if I sound harsh but you decided to take the pup on so you have to take the responsibility to learn how to calmly deal with all the little problems it will throw up rather than take the easy option of getting rid of a living breathing animal like it was a piece of unwanted furniture.  I am sure that you don't really want to do that anyway?

The others here give excellent advice so please do calm down, sit back and take a deep breath and set yourself on a plan of action to help you over this little hurdle with him.


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

thank you i have come to this forum for help for me and my puppy max. i have a perfect 4 year old boy. its hard to sit and listen to constant barking.


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

Of course it is hard, its never going to be easy and im sure your 4 yr old isnt perfect all the time hun!!!!!!!

Im sure we'll all try and help best we can..........there are many many methods to try so there is hope!!!!! 

You've just got a normal puppy by the sounds of it and got some work to do, but it will be well worth it in the end!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

What do you mean you have a perfect 4 year old boy????? Do you mean human child cos in a previous post you said you'd never had a dog before


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

Jo P said:


> What do you mean you have a perfect 4 year old boy????? Do you mean human child cos in a previous post you said you'd never had a dog before


He means son


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

mjohnson84 said:


> To be successful, a good crate-training program uses positive reinforcement. The crate should be a comfortable and inviting place for the puppy. To accomplish this, the crate can be lined with a soft towel or padding. Also, the pup should want to enter the crate. Luring is fastest way to associate the crate with being good place to go. To lure the puppy into the crate, use small bits of treats such as pieces of hot dog. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area, leave the door open to let it come out as it wishes. Continue to use this process until the puppy enters the crate on its own for the treat. Be sure to praise the puppy gently while it is in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. Phases such as "kennel up" or go to your room work nicely. Use the association word or phase as you are putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Repeat this procedure several times to get your puppy accustomed to going into its crate.
> 
> The amount of time the puppy spends in the crate is extremely important. Because puppies have poor bladder and bowel control, they should not spend any more than four to five hours in the crate at a time, with the exception of sleeping in the crate during the night. Below is the crate-training schedule I recommend to those who want to use this friendly method of potty training:
> 
> ...


IMO this plan involves the puppy being put in the crate FAR too frequently anf for FAR too long. If you are going to keep a puppy in the crate for this amount of time it is, to me, tantamount to cruelty and you should stick to dogs that come with four wheels and a handle.

As for the OP - if you're fed up now and you haven't even hit the teething/adolescence stage, I think it would be in the best interest of the puppy to rehome it while it's still young enough to find a new home relatively easily. I'd suggest contacting the breeder first - most decent breeders have a waiting list anyway (so may know of someone who missed out on the litter and who would be thrilled to get another chance of a pup) and will take pups back if need be, to prevent rescue centres being any more lumbered than they are already.


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## mjohnson84 (Sep 23, 2009)

sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2009)

Let your puppy out of the crate more often, he needs to interact with you more, when he is tired is the time to use the crate


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

From my own experience with my Westie, they are people dogs and don't like to be left out of things. If he is in his crate and can hear you in the house he will want to be with you and your family.

I had a crate for Monty but didn't use it for housetraining so I can't help you there, sorry. I preferred giving him the run of the kitchen and garden and watching him like a hawk, praising him when he went in the right place. When he did mess in the kitchen I would take him back to it and show him and then take him outside to the garden say "busy outside". We use the word "busy" for toilet training.

Westies are bright dogs and with consistent commands and praise yours will soon learn.

Please don't give up on him, there are plenty of good doggy people on here who can give you advice and support before it comes to that.

Good luck xx


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

mjohnson84 said:


> sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..


how long are you leaving him in there?

How often?

And for what purpose are you crate training him? does he chew? or is it for toilet training?

Just wondering.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

mjohnson84 said:


> sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..


because he is young and wants to be with u....

...why do u keep him in the crate when ur there with him anyway?

A crate is good for the night or the times when u leave the house or are busy and cant look after the pup...

how many hrs during the whole day is he in the crate for?


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

IMO, crate training and toilet training are two separate things. The crate should not be used to toilet train as has been described above. 
How long is he being left in his crate?


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Ooh ok

right. Crate training yes make it feel as a positive environment for baby

Second of all, if its the toilet training issue, i would let baby out for a wee like every 20-30 minutes, plus after every feed, after a bit of play and after every nap. And always praise puppy when its done a mess outside 

With reference to night time if puppy cries or barks at night when you've left him, leave him alone. He's crying for attention and he should learn its ok to be left alone at night. Ignore him he'll soon settle down and he'll learn ok they can't keep coming to me all the time.

Is this ok? Any questions?


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## Stellabella (Jan 8, 2009)

You might find it useful to look for other threads on crate training, and see what other people have tried.

I see you are following a particular method, I must say though, it seems a bit rigid! I would suggest using shorter crate times, with more play/training games/cuddle time in between. The crate should be his rest area, and somewhere you can safely leave him when you go out. So if he's not happy in there, he will become anxious and unsettled. By giving him more interaction with you, and putting him in when he's really tired he will be more likely to accept it. 

Do you cover the crate? It often works better if there's a dark cover on it, he'll be less distracted by what's going on around him, just leave the front uncovered so he doesn't feel cut off.


He really needs more more toilet breaks than it says there, say every two hours, then you can give him fewer or more as his routine develops. I don't suppose he's had his vaccinations yet, he's probably a bit young to take out, but when he is able to go for short frequent walks you should see an improvement, and you'll start to enjoy him more.

Keep asking questions, you will get some good advice on here, and do read other crate threads, it'll help!


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## marmite (Sep 22, 2009)

when i crate trained my collie she was only shut in the crate when we went out (which wasnt very often) and at night when we were in bed! the rest of the time the crate door was left open so she could go in and out when she wanted. she was always happy to go in her crate.xx


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

marmite said:


> when i crate trained my collie she was only shut in the crate when we went out (which wasnt very often) and at night when we were in bed! the rest of the time the crate door was left open so she could go in and out when she wanted. she was always happy to go in her crate.xx


I did the same with my chap 

Although, I've got rid of the crate cos he wasn't using it during the day for naps so it was just something else cluttering up the kitchen. Monty sleeps upstairs with us now, I've gone completely the other way


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

rona said:


> Let your puppy out of the crate more often, he needs to interact with you more, when he is tired is the time to use the crate


Yes what rona is saying is correct. Don't keep pup in crate all the time.


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## Callia (Jan 14, 2009)

How often is he in the crate ?? 
Is there a reason why he can't stay out and play/follow you round and only put him in there when he is asleep ??
He is a baby and needs pretty much constant company whilst awake at this age. Have you tried contacting his breeder for advice ??

It is really hard work and you will feel like pulling your hair out at times but, the time you spend on training now is everything !!!


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## Stellabella (Jan 8, 2009)

I have one I was too soft on, he sleeps on the bed! :blushing:

One who wouldn't settle at all UNLESS she was in her crate,
and one who I had to train to use it. 

The middle one only uses it at night, other times she goes in with the door left open. She puts herself to bed if we stay up late!

The pup is only 4 months, so she uses it at night and if I go out, and if I'm upstairs hoovering or something, Sometimes I put her in for a nap if she seems particularly tired.

She used to make a terrible fuss at first, but I never took her out if she was crying, I'd talk to her and bustle around where she could see me, then when she quietened down I'd open up.

They were all chewers, so it was safer for them and my home when they were small!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

the answer is simple really, he is in the crate for far too long and just wants to be around his new family for loves and cuddles and playtime he sounds a very frustrated little puppy! puppies will nip, this is normal puppy behaviour,just try and interact with him more, you ,your wife and little boy


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## oldDoubletrouble (Sep 21, 2009)

mjohnson84 said:


> what do u think?too long in crate?


Told you before you ask the question that he was! see first post on page two!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

mjohnson84 said:


> To be successful, a good crate-training program uses positive reinforcement. The crate should be a comfortable and inviting place for the puppy. To accomplish this, the crate can be lined with a soft towel or padding. Also, the pup should want to enter the crate. Luring is fastest way to associate the crate with being good place to go. To lure the puppy into the crate, use small bits of treats such as pieces of hot dog. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area, leave the door open to let it come out as it wishes. Continue to use this process until the puppy enters the crate on its own for the treat. Be sure to praise the puppy gently while it is in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. Phases such as "kennel up" or "go to your room" work nicely. Use the association word or phase as you are putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Repeat this procedure several times to get your puppy accustomed to going into its crate.
> 
> The amount of time the puppy spends in the crate is extremely important. Because puppies have poor bladder and bowel control, they should not spend any more than four to five hours in the crate at a time, with the exception of sleeping in the crate during the night. Below is the crate-training schedule I recommend to those who want to use this friendly method of potty training:
> 
> ...


 so the puppy is only allowed out of the crate 2/3 hours a day?? if so then theres no wonder the poor little thing is barking


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

The crate should only be used for night time and when you go out. The pup needs more stimulation and play time from you. If you can't provide this, (and walks when he's old enough) then rehome him to someone who will.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

mjohnson84 said:


> To be successful, a good crate-training program uses positive reinforcement. The crate should be a comfortable and inviting place for the puppy. To accomplish this, the crate can be lined with a soft towel or padding. Also, the pup should want to enter the crate. Luring is fastest way to associate the crate with being good place to go. To lure the puppy into the crate, use small bits of treats such as pieces of hot dog. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area, leave the door open to let it come out as it wishes. Continue to use this process until the puppy enters the crate on its own for the treat. Be sure to praise the puppy gently while it is in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. Phases such as "kennel up" or go to your room work nicely. Use the association word or phase as you are putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Repeat this procedure several times to get your puppy accustomed to going into its crate.
> 
> The amount of time the puppy spends in the crate is extremely important. Because puppies have poor bladder and bowel control, they should not spend any more than four to five hours in the crate at a time, with the exception of sleeping in the crate during the night. Below is the crate-training schedule I recommend to those who want to use this friendly method of potty training:
> 
> ...


TI'm shaw you won't come back again, But did you get this with your crate?. I had something more or less the same in a crate someone gave me


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> It is really hard work and you will feel like pulling your hair out at times but, the time you spend on training now is everything !!!


I agree, puppies are really, really hard work. Their cute little faces belie a whole series of issues and in order to have a nice obedient, friendly dog at the end of the day you need to put a vast amount of work in.

Crating is only a tool in the training process if done well, but thinking you can just put a puppy in the crate for a while and he comes out fully trained like putting washing in the washing machine comes out clean, is a complete nonsense.

Of course he will howl and bark, he will miss the company of his brothers and sisters and his mum just like any baby. 
He will most likely be a complete nightmare in loads of different ways for up to a year until he starts to realise what is what and starts being more consistent. Training a pup well needs almost total commitment, especially in the first few months.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> I agree, puppies are really, really hard work. Their cute little faces belie a whole series of issues and in order to have a nice obedient, friendly dog at the end of the day you need to put a vast amount of work in.
> 
> Crating is only a tool in the training process if done well, but thinking you can just put a puppy in the crate for a while and he comes out fully trained like putting washing in the washing machine comes out clean, is a complete nonsense.
> 
> ...


Agree with every word.


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## staflove (Sep 4, 2008)

Hes only a baby crate trainng takes time it dose not happen pver night but its a long time to be in a crate if you want my honest opinion, i would not say get rid of the dog but you should have thought of this before buying a pupy im not having a dig at you so please dont thing i am, and neither is anyone else on here but if hes caged all that time i would consider finding a home were he is going to get more attention and loves sorry im just thinking about the dog


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## HGriffin12 (Sep 1, 2009)

I hope you managed to sort it out. 

I agree with most posts, only use the crate if you're out or maybe through the night? I never used a crate for mine, but I think you need to forget rules that you got for the crate and do what's best for your dog. 

All dogs are different and you'll need to do whatever is best/ works for him and yourself. 

P.s puppies are hard work but worth it!


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