# Getting grief for owning a dog while on benefits



## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Apparently I expect everyone to house and look after me just because I have a dog and I'm on benefits and choose not to work. 

I understand her frustration with people on benefits who waste it all on ****, Booze, clubbing and gambling etc. but I do none of those. 

I'm routinely medically assessed so would lose my benefit if I was physically able. I also spend most of my money on education to better myself and to become self employed in the future. 

Is it wrong for me to own dogs if I'm on benefits which I'm entitled too? I've never actually thought about it before?


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2013)

It's no wrong. I'm on benefits and I have a dog.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

It depends,what do you mean by *you choose not to work*.:confused5:


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## Golden6 (Mar 2, 2013)

I don't think it's wrong either esp if its for a medical reason! A dog is way more constructive than booze, **** and clubbing and as long as you can afford to look after them, why should you miss out?

What makes me mad is when people have children just to get more money!!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

wow, all 4 are yours??
TBH Im surprised you can afford 4 on benefits. I know my lot cost over a £100 on insurance alone and their food costs can only be a tiny percentage of yours as mine are much smaller.
I think having a pet can be a lifesaver for alot of people and keeps them sane so I think its fine to have a pet and be on benefits. Multiple pets however might be pushing the sympathy vote wee bit!


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

It doesn't matter what anyone one thinks in my opinion, if you have a dog and look after it, they might as well say you shouldn't have a TV or something else that costs money
Not as if you have a few dogs


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm not sure about the "choosing not to work" comment, I'm sure a lot of us would like to be able to choose not to work, I know I would!

I work fulltime as does OH and we both earn decent salaries, but I think four dogs would be pushing it for us in terms of affordability and just affording a house big enough to house them all so it must be very tight on benefits! But if you are entitled to them for good reason then they are yours to spend as you see fit - but I think in general people can get resentful when they see someone able to afford stuff while not working that they would struggle to afford while having a job, just human nature.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> It depends,what do you mean by *you choose not to work*.:confused5:


I had to read that twice and then thought the OP means



sezeelson said:


> Apparently I (expect everyone to house and look after me just because I have a dog and I'm on benefits and) choose not to work.


so I don't think she's choosing not to work just that whoever is giving her grief assumes she's chosen not to work.

I don't know much about benefits or what someone in the OP's position receives, but I am on a state pension plus some extra private pension that passed to me when my hubby passed away and I know that with normal household bills needing to be paid I wouldn't be able to afford four dogs (and I don't smoke, drink, go to the pub, have Sky TV or the latest in technology etc.).

However, we're all entitled to spend our money how we wish and it sounds as though the OP has a great attitude and is working towards a worthwhile future .


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm the same at the moment but on jsa and trying my best to find a job. I think if you can look after a dog then it's fine.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

DirtyGertie said:


> I don't think she's choosing not to work just that whoever is giving her grief assumes she's chosen not to work.


Ahhh, that makes more sense!


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

DirtyGertie said:


> I had to read that twice and then thought the OP means
> 
> so I don't think she's choosing not to work just that whoever is giving her grief assumes she's chosen not to work.
> 
> ...


My Apologies if I read it wrong. It's waaaay past my bedtime.

Not sure how they can afford 4 dogs on benefits though,if they are all hers.

I was on benefits for a couple of months earlier this year and it was a real struggle,I was eating beans on toast just so the dogs got fed their raw.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I can understand where people got confused on the 'choose not to work' comment, but it does say that Sezeelson is routinely medically assessed so would lose her benefit IF physically able to work... so when I read that I took that to mean there is an actual valid reason for her to be on benefits...


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

If you can afford them and care for them properly I don't see how it's anyone's business tbh, ignore them.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> It depends,what do you mean by *you choose not to work*.:confused5:


This was the presumption the person has made about me!

I have arthritis in all my joints since a baby and have a degree of damage to most joints. I've also been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder which only makes things ten times harder!

I don't choose not to work! I tried really hard to get a job before resorting to benefits. I couldn't attend school as a child due to my disability, my attendance dropped to below 50% and ended up needing home education. A decision that wasn't taken lightly as you could imagine! My current courses are home or part time courses! The reason I'm studying is to become self employed so I can work within my own limits as arthritis is very unpredictable and I couldn't work to a fixed schedule which makes things very tough.

Sorry for the confusion!



catz4m8z said:


> wow, all 4 are yours??
> TBH Im surprised you can afford 4 on benefits. I know my lot cost over a £100 on insurance alone and their food costs can only be a tiny percentage of yours as mine are much smaller.
> I think having a pet can be a lifesaver for alot of people and keeps them sane so I think its fine to have a pet and be on benefits. Multiple pets however might be pushing the sympathy vote wee bit!


Lol I don't want a sympathy vote!? And don't mind if people disagree, everyone has their own opinions 

No not all mine 
Scooby belongs to my sister but he currently lives here and I've done so much walking and training with him that I've bonded with him to much! I'll be so sad when he leaves 

Raven is mine but as she was palmed off on me by my mother, she covers ravens *vets fees, insurance and food bill so I'm not financially responsible for her. I buy her walking gear, coats, collars and leads etc. 
*apart from her glands but this is only £7.50 every other month tops.

Rossi is all mine and his insurance is only £6.90 a month and looking into runa's insurance now. I did a mini financial plan for Runa as an adult dog to make sure I could afford her upbringing.

So I'm only financially responsible for two dogs.

My dogs are my world and I would give up everything before giving up them! I have my car to sell (and save on insurance and tax) if my benefits ever decreased or whatever. I also have a few naughty luxuries such a pooch pack which I know is silly and have finally cancelled now so my subscription won't renew  I even buy their food before I buy mine and I wouldn't have it another way!


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm the same, I have Jasper and I'm on benefits. I think having a dog helps a lot, and people are wrong to tell you you shouldn't own a dog just because you're on benefits. It's none of their business really, just try to ignore them.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Im on Benefits because of my disabiltys i used to work and if i could physically work again i would ,my occupational-therapist has actually said the dogs are good therapy for me because they get me more motivated , i dont think anyone should be judged on having pets


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> Im on Benefits because of my disabiltys i used to work and if i could physically work again i would ,my occupational-therapist has actually said the dogs are good therapy for me because they get me more motivated , i dont think anyone should be judged on having pets


Same for me 

I had a major flair up and lost all my muscle and movement etc. I couldn't climb stairs and could barely walk a few steps without falling unless I was holding onto someone. I was in a really bad way I kind of just shut down accepting I'll be like this forever. I was only 18.

My dad really tried to help and encourage me and I did improve slightly. Anyway, since getting Rossi I'm unrecognisable from the frail, miserable person I was just a few years ago! Stairs are no longer a problem and my walking is much more natural again  it still hurts to walk but when I have my dogs I can concentrate on them rather then the pain so it doesn't effect me like it used to.

I think this is why my bond with Rossi is so strong, we both pulled each other back from a disaster!


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

I must admit, I often find it hard to understand how some people are so ill they can not work even part time but are able to walk multiple active dogs sometimes for hours per day. 

There is a woman who lives on our street who is on disability for fibromyalgia, yet she has a collie, a GSD, a collie x and a JRT. She has had multiple warnings from the dog warden and is only allowed to take 2 dogs out at a time now as when she was taking 4 they were out of control, she has been sticking to it lately but she spends about 6 hours per day walking her dogs. If she can spend 6 hours walking high energy breeds, throwing balls for them, bending to pick up their poo, running with them at some points then surely she could work 8 hours per day in an office environment?

Obviously yours is very serious and has been a lifelong condition but I do understand why people question when people have dogs (especially quite a few) and illnesses that stop them working.

But in answer to your question, I don't think there is a problem with people on benefits having dogs as long as they can afford them. The people I have problems with are those who get a dog knowing the PDSA will pay for any treatment they need, they should only be used in times of absolute struggle, not as a doggy NHS.


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

Your illness sounds awful, but by the sounds of it, it has made you a stronger person. 
Take no notice, how you live your life has nothing to do with anyone else and no, I dont think your wrong for having dogs.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Well what are people who suddenly find themselves on benefit supposed to do with their dogs, get rid of them? 

I've been on and off benefits since the OH left and have used money that I needed for myself in order to feed the dogs instead. Egg and beans on toast for dinner have allowed me to feed them, at least raw food is cheap, so its been manageable. 

People make me laugh, they talk about benefits like its loads of money being thrown at you where as its a pittance that enables you to barely scrape by. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a pittance but there are genuine cases that deserve their benefits and making people feel guilty is what stops some of the more needy folk from claiming what they're entitled to and have paid there dues for. 

Its not a dogs fault that its owner becomes unemployed through illness or redundancy and there is no justifiable reason on this earth for it to be cast out because of it. You don't get any extra benefit for owning a dog, all that happens is you go without yourself, so why should anyone judge your personal sacrifice?

Now if you churned out kid after kid while on benefits I could see their point because they are included in benefits but dogs aren't, so I can't see their reasoning. Bet those type don't like the PDSA too and think they somehow help to fund that! 

People should realise that the majority of benefit recipients have paid taxes not only to help fund the odd layabout who doesn't want to work but to help themselves in times of illness or redundancy. Any that aren't genuine are the fault of the system for allowing it to happen.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Some people's rection to people on benefits are not thought through at best and ludicrous at worst.

It amuses me (or would amuse me if it were not so serious) that some benefits are socially acceptable and some aren't. For example, every parent in the country (unless one partner earns more than 50K pa) is on benefits - what else is the child allowance if not a benefit?

Yet do you see recipients of this benefit being hounded by anyone? No, because it is a socially acceptable benefit. So on one hand you can have a family with a joint income of (up to) 99.9K and no-one makes a murmur at taxes going towards looking after their children, and on the other you have someone who needs help because of illness, redundancy, sudden death of a partner, divorce etc and some people are up in arms that their taxes might be going to help them look after their animals.

I think some people need to stop and think before they make judgements. Surely it is better for benefits to go to someone who is struggling to look after their animals rather than someone earning up to a possible 99.9K just because they have kids.

As Malmum so rightly says, what are you supposed to do if you have pets that you can afford and then something awful suddenly happens? IMO that's what benefits are for - not for families with an income of nearly 100 grand a year just because they have kids.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm on disability benefits cos I've got bipolar which isn't controlled by meds.

I'd be lost without my girls. They give me a reason to get up, to carry on. As long as I can afford them then it's noting to do with anyone else.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I guess one could argue that a dig is a huge luxury, and if someone can afford one, two, five then the amount of benefit they are getting is too much.
I also wonder how folk who can not work due to physical disability manage to exercise high energy breeds daily!
I do also think that pets can really help give folk a purpose so its swings and roundabouts.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't think it is wrong for you to own dogs on benefits. It is not your fault about your disability. It must be very hard for you at times with the arthritis, so the dogs must give you great comfort which I find hard to believe anyone would begrudge you. It is all too easy for people to judge but always remember they don't suffer with the arthritis, you do and have lived with it all your life.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I haven't read all the posts.

I worked up until having my son, my then husband worked to support us. I did receive family allowance/child benefit I think it was £8.00 or £9.00 per week.

I ended up with two puppies and a shortly after my then husband walked out on us so I ended up on benefits. I went on a refresher training course (paid for by my parents at the time). I went back to work.

During the time I was on benefits I had to use the services of the PDSA. Benefits were barely enough to live on and I had to buy loose dog meat from the local pet shop (looked spam) really cheap. Oh don't get me wrong, it was an awful time for me, I used to cry dishing the stuff up for the dogs.

In 2009 I was made redundant and out of work for four weeks, fortunately I knew it was coming and stock piled for the pets and us (including routine treatments such as flea and worming treatments).

The difference back then people survived on benefits whereas today people can live on benefits and I think this is a massive improvement for those genuinely in need of financial help and support.

There are three categories imo those people who cannot genuinely work due to health issues etc., those who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own and are genuinely actively seeking work and *those who could work but choose not to.*

imo the first two categories are what benefits are intended for and I see no reason why a person cannot own a pet provided they can financally support the pets wellbeing long term. There is the PDSA people can fall back on (I did I'm not ashamed to say it).

The problem with narrow minded people like the ones OP is getting grief from they tar everyone on benefits with the same brush and that is wrong. I only hope they never find themselves in the same position but it is only then that they will realise and see the bigger picture.

OP you enjoy your dog and try to ignore these ignorant and rude people.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I genuinely don't understand how people on benefits afford to buy pedigree dogs, feed, insure and pay normal vet bills for multiple dogs, afford Sky or whatever and go on holidays abroad. I've been on benefits and I struggled like hell to feed myself and Shadow, there was literally nothing left over for luxuries. I couldn't even afford the bus fare to go to job interviews after paying bills and buying food. 

My parents are on disability benefits and slightly better off than I was but not by much.

If you're truly unable to work because of your disability then what about all the threads where you're doing courses to be a dog trainer or behaviourist? And the ones about dog walking for rescue?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

BeauNoir said:


> I must admit, I often find it hard to understand how some people are so ill they can not work even part time but are able to walk multiple active dogs sometimes for hours per day.
> 
> There is a woman who lives on our street who is on disability for fibromyalgia, yet she has a collie, a GSD, a collie x and a JRT. She has had multiple warnings from the dog warden and is only allowed to take 2 dogs out at a time now as when she was taking 4 they were out of control, she has been sticking to it lately but she spends about 6 hours per day walking her dogs. If she can spend 6 hours walking high energy breeds, throwing balls for them, bending to pick up their poo, running with them at some points then surely she could work 8 hours per day in an office environment?


This sums up exactly how I feel.

I honestly do not believe there are many people who truly cannot work, there are many different types of jobs that require different types of physical activity, involvement with people, etc so there is (nearly) always a type of job a person can do.

Whilst I don't think it's wrong to have pets if you are on benefits I do think it is wrong to get more if you cannot pay for their veterinary bills & use the PDSA - this I find morally wrong yet so many people seem to think this is ok

Edited to add: Just read a few of the OP's other posts & am confused .... how can you be put walking so many dogs for so many hours yet you are unable to work?


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I do not think it's wrong to have pets whilst on benefits but really do wonder how numerous pets are realistically afforded? We were on benefits for a little while and we really did struggle. There would have been no way we could have afforded more than one dog. 
Even now my OH works almost 50 hours a week we can't realistically afford multiple pets.

How do people with physical disabilities, severe enough to prevent them from working actually manage to walk their dogs? I am genuinely curious about that.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Dogs are a privilege, not a right. You cannot work because it hurts so much to walk but just the other day you posted a picture of you running through the woods with Rossi?! Hmm.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

SixStar said:


> Dogs are a privilege, not a right. You cannot work because it hurts so much to walk but just the other day you posted a picture of you running through the woods with Rossi?! Hmm.


And walking other dogs for a local rescue centre .....


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Well I own 4 dogs plus other pets (15 pets in total) and I am on benefits. 
I worked for 10 years, I acquired my pets over that time, and I then found myself made redundant. I sure as hell wasn't going to get rid of my animals because I have fallen on hard times. 
However I would not go out and get a new pet during this time, not sure how you managed to afford a brand new puppy? I can hardly afford my own food every week.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

sezeelson said:


> Apparently I expect everyone to house and look after me just because I have a dog and I'm on benefits and choose not to work.
> 
> I understand her frustration with people on benefits who waste it all on ****, Booze, clubbing and gambling etc. but I do none of those.
> 
> ...


No, it's bloody well not - not if you are taking care of them properly. Apart from anything else, dogs are therapeutic in many ways - they offer love and company (which we all need), they give us someone to think about other than ourselves, and thus a reason to get out of bed on a morning (something which becomes very hard when you don't have a job - plus we've all seen what self-obsession does to a person) and we have to walk them and play with them, this means that we get the physical exercise, fresh air and exposure to sunlight that we otherwise would not, which not only helps us keep physically as well as we are able, but also lifts our mood and prevents serious depression. All of these things SAVE the health service a lot of money.

IMO dogs should be available on prescription!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

DirtyGertie said:


> I had to read that twice and then thought the OP means
> 
> *so I don't think she's choosing not to work just that whoever is giving her grief assumes she's chosen not to work.*
> 
> ...


That's how I understood it, too.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Im on benefits because I lost my job with horses when I became pregnant for health and safety reasons they couldn't allow me to work with the horses while pregnant (I was an event groom). I went to college for two years to get my nvq3 in horse management as I was told I couldn't have children horses would've been my life. Now it may sound stupid but financially going back to work right now wouldn't benefit me at all, I would have to spend less time with my daughter and not have anymore money for it so I chose not to work because my LO may well be my one and only child and I want to experience as much of her growing up as I can, once she starts nursery next year Im starting my OU business degree to become an accountant (fun I know definitely not what I pictured doing with my life). So I chose not to work and I wont work until I have to which is when my daughter turns 5 at that point I will be nearly two years into my degree, then will go back to work part time as well as carry on with my degree. People just have such a bad view of people on benefits I don't care if people don't agree with the fact I chose not to work until I have too, but then im not actually sat on my arse doing nothing, buying fancy things and spending my money going out drinking. I sacrifice my food for my daughter and Apollos food I don't mind, people have said to me including my family that I cant afford a dog (and now a cat too) but as far as im concerned the money other people waste on going out every weekend and unnecessary things like big flat screen tvs goes one my daughter and my animals. plus the fact my animals are better taken care of than a lot of animals whether the owners are on benefits or not.

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant. I know someone who is on benefits and she got rid of her dog because she apparently didn't have time to walk him when she had her baby, then a month later got a kitten and has gotten two more since the oldest one is 7 months now and apparently pregnant yet she refuses to spay and neuter and she's constantly on the lookout for another dog and more cats! those are the kind of people I cant stand. :mad2:


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I think people are confused as the OP is physically unable to work yet able to run through woods with their dogs. It strikes people as a little odd and to be fair it is a very valid observation. 

I agree that dogs are therapeutic and can be a wonderful help to people but if you are physically unable to work due to ill health how can you provide essential physical exercise for a dog?


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not against people on benefits having dogs but if someone has spent benefit money on an expensive pedigree puppy then I'm sorry but I don't agree with that.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I honestly cannot imagine being without my pets - I've been really ill the last year and having them & knowing they needed cared for & walked etc often made me get up in the mornings when I would quite happily have stayed in bed  SO I totally understand that having pets can be hugely beneficial, especially to those who struggle with life on a daily basis

My best pal is bipolar and I know how she has ups / downs & has ended up being fired from many jobs over the years (she has days she's fine & could easily work & then others when she's suicidal and can't work for ages  -) and I know her pets keep her going too

BUT I also know how much they cost - I work full time and really struggle to make ends meet and there are lots of sacrifices to ensure the pets get everything they need - so how on earth this can be done on benefits - for multiple pets - is beyond me 

I think it's a totally different scenario if someone has pets & loses their job (which is sadly happening all to much recently) than someone who has never worked (and I'm not talking about those who are genuinely ill OR the OP - I'm talking about those who do choose not to work as they think society owes them a living).

I'd love more & could easily afford to feed / everyday care / routine vet care BUT I'd struggle to take on more insurance premiums and would struggle for initial costs such as adoption / purchase price / neutering etc ....

However, I also don't understand how people who are on disability for mobility reasons can exercise 1 or more dogs for hours a day but can't work! That's just taking the mickey


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Just throwing a question out here.

As most members know we are in our mid 50s have a total of six pets, extremely actively on a weekly basis running a Karate club, teaching, training, and competing from time to time. Hubby is a hobby photographer, we walk the dog on a daily basis for between 1 to 2 hours a day.

Are we fit and healthy? 


No, hubby has arthritis, in his sacroilic joints, spine, hips and knees, he collapses in pain and weakness in his joints coupled with bolts of pain. Each and every step is painful for him.

He has to take strong medication that states he cannot drive or operate machinery. 

Controlling a medical condition to allow a person to live as normal a life as possible does not necessarily mean they can work. 

He drives for a living - but that's okay at least he is working because according to a lot of members on here he should not be on benefits. 

Should my husband be working? how safe do you now feeling, driving your children to school?

tbh he takes the medication before going to bed so he can at least get a goodnights sleep, which is why he collapses in pain during the day.

The OP is trying to do the same thing choosing course to training for a type of work she/he feels they would be able to manage. I for one applaud the OP.


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Some people's rection to people on benefits are not thought through at best and ludicrous at worst.
> 
> It amuses me (or would amuse me if it were not so serious) that some benefits are socially acceptable and some aren't. For example, every parent in the country (unless one partner earns more than 50K pa) is on benefits - what else is the child allowance if not a benefit?
> 
> Yet do you see recipients of this benefit being hounded by anyone? No, because it is a socially acceptable benefit.


I don't think child benefit should be socially acceptable. It's ludicruous, but that's for another thread.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Malmum said:


> Well what are people who suddenly find themselves on benefit supposed to do with their dogs, get rid of them?
> 
> I've been on and off benefits since the OH left and have used money that I needed for myself in order to feed the dogs instead. Egg and beans on toast for dinner have allowed me to feed them, at least raw food is cheap, so its been manageable.
> 
> ...


This makes me sooo angry! Benefits are SUBSISTENCE level - not lying-by-your-private-pool-while-the-butler-peels-you-a-grape level. Yes - there are a few high-profile cases where people are fiddling or manipulating the system and doing very well out of it, but most people on benefits struggle with day to day loving, and if a bill comes in for something unexpected - they are stuffed!

I've been there myself (not now, thank heavens) and life is one long worry. 1 slice of bread and an egg to feed two kids until the money comes tomorrow; me and husband not eating for two days so that the children and the dogs can; buying the cheapest of everything from those weigh-it-out shops because that way if you only have 13p to spend on cereal, you can buy 13p worth of cereal; walking EVERYWHERE, no matter what the weather, because the bus is too dear. For the vast majority of people, benefits is NOT a life choice, and it certainly isn't a doddle.

I do think, though, that benefits should be capped. People shouldn't be able to claim more on benefits than the average wage. I do get annoyed when couples with 14 kids get the equivalent of £75,000 a year - and next to none of it goes on the bairns. It might stop people having huge families that they don't take care of. ANd I know that again these are the exception, not the rule, but seeing these publicised makes everyone think that benefits is the good life, and it isn't.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Goldstar said:


> I think people are confused as the OP is physically unable to work yet able to run through woods with their dogs. It strikes people as a little odd and to be fair it is a very valid observation.
> 
> I agree that dogs are therapeutic and can be a wonderful help to people but if you are physically unable to work due to ill health how can you provide essential physical exercise for a dog?


Because her joints get better and worse and obviously she never knows how good or bad her health will be on a given day, obviously her running through the woods was a good day.

I was seriously ill and the only signs I really noticed was shaking and losing weight, yet I still worked every day on a horse yard and riding horses, until I went to the drs and was told my heart was beating so fast all the time (110 at rest) that any kind of strenuous activity could've caused my heart to fail so I could've just dropped dead in the middle of riding or mucking out (at he age of 18!), sounds crazy especially when I think back but I honestly didn't notice because I was doing something I loved, animals are therapeutic and definitely help mentally and physically with illness and injury, if I hadn't been working doing something I love I would've realised a lot sooner that something was wrong but because I was concentrating on the horses instead of me I took longer to notice. Im sure if she didn't have her dogs she's probably would barely be able to get out of bed having something to do especially something you love (I would walk with Apollo all day if I could) makes all the difference in the world


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> This sums up exactly how I feel.
> *
> I honestly do not believe there are many people who truly cannot work, there are many different types of jobs that require different types of physical activity, involvement with people, etc so there is (nearly) always a type of job a person can do.*
> 
> ...


I think that that is true, BUT is the work available? It's okay saying someone could work at (say) an office job, but if there aren't any office jobs available in your area, what do you do? Plus when you go for interview - who do you think the employer is going to pick between two equally qualified candidates? The healthy one, or the one with a health condition which means they could have a flare-up at any time, and be off for two months.

I'm not meaning to knock, you, because I do agree to an point with what you say, but it isn't as simplistic as that, unfortunately.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> I think people are confused as the OP is physically unable to work yet able to run through woods with their dogs. It strikes people as a little odd and to be fair it is a very valid observation.
> 
> I agree that dogs are therapeutic and can be a wonderful help to people but if you are physically unable to work due to ill health how can you provide essential physical exercise for a dog?


You cannot always see illness


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

sskmick said:


> Just throwing a question out here.
> 
> As most members know we are in our mid 50s have a total of six pets, extremely actively on a weekly basis running a Karate club, teaching, training, and competing from time to time. Hubby is a hobby photographer, we walk the dog on a daily basis for between 1 to 2 hours a day.
> 
> ...


Am sorry your husband struggles but if he cannot now drive for a living due to his condition then surely a job where driving is not involved should be considered 

Last year my OH (who is a digger driver) was struggling to get work so considered all sorts of work in other industries despite always having worked in construction as a driver.

Last year I had a prolapsed disc which meant I was off work for a few months, sitting was agony for me, I was not able to drive either as my leg went numb, I was also on strong medication which made me drowsy.

I could not give up work due to this so had to modify my working conditions, work from home (until I was able to drive), then work part time, etc as my condition improved.

I was lucky in that my employers were very supportive but not working was never an option for me. I still get pain, I still find sitting for long periods difficult but I have managed to adapt & make small changes which help.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

We did use the PDSA for Lola , but when we sat down and talked about getting another dog it was decided that if we ever did it would be a rescue and we wouldnt use the PDSA anymore, When we rescued Apple we changed to our local vets, we now pay £20 a month for both girls for this Healthy Pet Club Loyalty Scheme reducing the costs of routine veterinary care where it pays our flea n worming treatments, jabs discounts on products among other things, we also have pet insurance and watever spare cash we have gets put away for any unplanned emergency for the girls, at the moment i believe we pay 2 much for there dog food but we have now decided to put them on raw and for me also to make there own treats, i cant walk far without pain or having to sit down i do try do a couple of the long walks a week but OH does the main of them, just because i cant mentaly or physically move about some days dosnt mean i shouldnt have dogs, as i have said in a previous post they are my therapy before the dogs id just lay on sofa day in day out, i do not believe in paying 100s for pedigree dogs when on benefits though


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

lostbear said:


> This makes me sooo angry! Benefits are SUBSISTENCE level - not lying-by-your-private-pool-while-the-butler-peels-you-a-grape level. Yes - there are a few high-profile cases where people are fiddling or manipulating the system and doing very well out of it, but most people on benefits struggle with day to day loving, and if a bill comes in for something unexpected - they are stuffed!
> 
> I've been there myself (not now, thank heavens) and life is one long worry. 1 slice of bread and an egg to feed two kids until the money comes tomorrow; me and husband not eating for two days so that the children and the dogs can; buying the cheapest of everything from those weigh-it-out shops because that way if you only have 13p to spend on cereal, you can buy 13p worth of cereal; walking EVERYWHERE, no matter what the weather, because the bus is too dear. For the vast majority of people, benefits is NOT a life choice, and it certainly isn't a doddle.
> 
> I do think, though, that benefits should be capped. People shouldn't be able to claim more on benefits than the average wage. I do get annoyed when couples with 14 kids get the equivalent of £75,000 a year - and next to none of it goes on the bairns. It might stop people having huge families that they don't take care of. ANd I know that again these are the exception, not the rule, but seeing these publicised makes everyone think that benefits is the good life, and it isn't.


I know the exact feeling, we went without food for a few days at one point. We don't have any children thankfully because I don't know what we would have done if we did. 
I know a few families that keep having children for the extra money, they go on holidays a few times a year, have sky TV in 3 rooms of the house and run 2 cars yet OH works full time (in a job he hates with a back injury and carpal tunnel in both hands), I am in university full time and get a small bursary yet once we have paid everything out we have barely enough money for little extras let alone holidays.

For a lot of people being on benefits is extremely harsh, the people that make a career out of it get everyone tarred with the same brush unfortunately.

It also applies to people on sick benefits. Some really know how to play the system which makes everyone doubt the genuinely ill.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

lostbear said:


> I think that that is true, BUT is the work available? It's okay saying someone could work at (say) an office job, but if there aren't any office jobs available in your area, what do you do? Plus when you go for interview - who do you think the employer is going to pick between two equally qualified candidates? The healthy one, or the one with a health condition which means they could have a flare-up at any time, and be off for two months.
> 
> I'm not meaning to knock, you, because I do agree to an point with what you say, but it isn't as simplistic as that, unfortunately.


This is true. I'm perfectly capable of doing all the jobs I've applied for in the past 2 years but I am passed over each and every time for "more suitable candidates". I'm also limited by the fact I cannot drive or operate potentially dangerous machinery and that risk assessments say I am not to do several seemingly every day things such as climbing ladders. It's not really any wonder I'm unemployed, especially here where there are so few jobs and so many after them.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

rona said:


> You cannot always see illness


I know that but I was under the impression the OP had a physical illness preventing her from working.

ETA: I completely understand that arthritis can cause severe flare ups then have a period of reduced symptoms but I still don't understand why it was feasible to add a new puppy to the family.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Just wanted to add, to fund the girls stuff like collars, harnesses, leads etc, i sell there good condition bits they have either grown out of or dont use anymore on ebay, so i then can get them the stuff they need, i just bought a Julius lime green harness for Apple as she grew out of other one in 6 weeks yes it was second hand in perfect condition and i paid £14 for it, i try and save money where i can


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> I know that but I was under the impression the OP had a physical illness preventing her from working.


And social anxiety. That seems to have been missed


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

lostbear said:


> I think that that is true, BUT is the work available? It's okay saying someone could work at (say) an office job, but if there aren't any office jobs available in your area, what do you do? Plus when you go for interview - who do you think the employer is going to pick between two equally qualified candidates? The healthy one, or the one with a health condition which means they could have a flare-up at any time, and be off for two months.
> 
> I'm not meaning to knock, you, because I do agree to an point with what you say, but it isn't as simplistic as that, unfortunately.


I do agree, I understand that work (in some areas) is not easy to find especially if there are limitations on a persons physical ability.

It's probably the 'I can't work' statement that winds me up more as this is not true in a lot of cases as there maybe jobs that can be done.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Am sorry your husband struggles but if he cannot now drive for a living due to his condition then surely a job where driving is not involved should be considered
> 
> Last year my OH (who is a digger driver) was struggling to get work so considered all sorts of work in other industries despite always having worked in construction as a driver.
> 
> ...


He loves his job, he is sat most of the time so in effect for his condition it is the best job for him. It does mean he can't take his medication through the day sometimes he comes home crippled but on the whole he manages as he is sat down most of the time. He takes his medication on an evening though.

Most manual work you are on your feet for upto 8 hours a day, and it is usually operating some kind of machinery. He couldn't stand on his feet for that long without medication and with medication he couldn't operate machinery. I don't doubt there may well be alternative employment but on the whole he is happy and managing.

He wouldn't want sympathy from anyone, he loves his life I was just making a point that controlling a condition to give a person as normal a life as possible doesn't necessarily mean they can work.

I haven't read the OP persons threads or not linked them together but there is nothing wrong with going on training courses to do something the OP feels they can manage. Even walking dogs a couple of times a day.

The main problem today is that jobs aren't that easy to come by whether you are able bodied or not.

Apologies if I am not politically correct with some of my terminology, I mean no offense to anyone. I have been on benefits and I am not ashamed to say it and if ever there is a time in my life when I need to claim again, I will.

For me it would be an absolute last resort to rehome my pets. Its choking me up just writing that line - I couldn't imagine ever rehoming them choose what grief I got from anyone.


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## Golden6 (Mar 2, 2013)

Apollo2012 said:


> *Because her joints get better and worse and obviously she never knows how good or bad her health will be on a given day, obviously her running through the woods was a good day*.
> 
> I was seriously ill and the only signs I really noticed was shaking and losing weight, yet I still worked every day on a horse yard and riding horses, until I went to the drs and was told my heart was beating so fast all the time (110 at rest) that any kind of strenuous activity could've caused my heart to fail so I could've just dropped dead in the middle of riding or mucking out (at he age of 18!), sounds crazy especially when I think back but I honestly didn't notice because I was doing something I loved, animals are therapeutic and definitely help mentally and physically with illness and injury, if I hadn't been working doing something I love I would've realised a lot sooner that something was wrong but because I was concentrating on the horses instead of me I took longer to notice. Im sure if she didn't have her dogs she's probably would barely be able to get out of bed having something to do especially something you love (I would walk with Apollo all day if I could) makes all the difference in the world


 This what I was going to say. What employer is going to take on a person that they cannot rely on to come in everyday because they are having a bad day with illness over a person who is fully fit and healthy and is more likely to be able to make it in every day.

It's clear that the dogs have made a huge difference to the OPs health and there is nothing to stop a person saving some of their benefits for things that they want, she doesn't have any dependant( or at least i don't think she has) so why not. Also, how do we know that she didn't receive money for birthdays and Christmases to save for the puppy!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

*sskmick* but the difference is that you & your hubby have worked & haven't just sat around expecting to receive benefits and have multiple pets - if either of you have to give up work due to ill health, again, that's different from people just expecting to receive them

I'm afraid you / your hubby aren't alone

I've been told to stop work by my consultants - I suffer Crohn's Disease and have been really ill with it for a year now - and also associated conditions such as Arthritis *and* also have a knackered left foot and after 3 surgeries have been told there's nothing more that can be done BUT what would I live on?

I would dearly love to be able to even drop one day at work (and had to do for several months) but I can't sustain the drop in income long term .....

I am in pain every single day ... I take so many meds now, I've had to start takings ones to counter the effects of them all interacting with each other.

I have really strong painkillers to take - but I can't take them as I can't function enough to drive / work on them - so I put up with the pain ....

AND .... there are thousands of people in a similar position ..... we manage - so why shouldn't others!


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

rona said:


> And social anxiety. That seems to have been missed


I apologise for missing that. I do understand how illnesses can be very debilitating but I guess I'm just confused as to how adding a new puppy to the situation would help matters (financially as well as physically). That's going from my own personal experience with not having enough money to eat ourselves some days when having to claim benefits.

I don't want to fall out with anyone over this so will shut my mouth now.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm not going to get into the benefit discussion. Its horses for courses. Unless you know all of the facts about the individual in question then its impossible to give a fully educated response. At face value, it would seem strange that someone on benefits can be able to afford 4 big dogs (Harvey costs me around £100 a month alone), but it would seem that not all expenses are covered by OP. 

The reason that I'm actually posting is because OP mentioned suffering with anxiety. Around 15 years ago, I started suffering with anxiety and panic attacks that became so severe I almost had to leave work. I started seeing a hypnotherapist and she managed to turn me around. I wouldn't say that I will have them again but I manage myself better and do avoid putting myself in certain situations. If you haven't already, it might be worth trying a hypnotherapist or counselling. I know this won't help with your other issues but suffering with anxiety is horrible.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> *sskmick* but the difference is that you & your hubby have worked & haven't just sat around expecting to receive benefits and have multiple pets - if either of you have to give up work due to ill health, again, that's different from people just expecting to receive them
> 
> I'm afraid you / your hubby aren't alone
> 
> ...


My OH is in a similar situation. He has a back injury (due to fracturing it years ago) and has carpal tunnel in both hands. His consultant has told him he shouldn't be in the job he is because it is what caused the carpal tunnel in the first place but he can't leave as we wouldn't be able to cope on the tiny amount of benefits we would get.

In just over 2 years I would have finished uni so he will be leaving his job then and I will support him myself. 
In the mean time he is looking for a less strenuous job.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Golden6 said:


> This what I was going to say. What employer is going to take on a person that they cannot rely on to come in everyday because they are having a bad day with illness over a person who is fully fit and healthy and is more likely to be able to make it in every day.
> 
> It's clear that the dogs have made a huge difference to the OPs health and there is nothing to stop a person saving some of their benefits for things that they want, she doesn't have any dependant( or at least i don't think she has) so why not. Also, how do we know that she didn't receive money for birthdays and Christmases to save for the puppy!


There are insurances that mature too, mergers between banks and insurance companies ie Leeds Permanent BS and Halifax. Inheritence doesn't have to be enough to affect benefits but enough to buy a puppy. There are all manner of possibilities that tbh doesn't concern me. It's just a fact.

When I managed to secure employment after I was made redundant, my new employer gave me £500 bonus. It was done in a way that didn't affect my redundancy which I hadn't received at that point. I used the money to get Bellini. I don't honest care what people think, it is what I did and don't regret it.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I do find the fact that someone is able to own four high energy breeds of dog yet states that they are unable to do any kind of work strange. Especially when one of them was purchased while on benefits. That is entirely different to someone who has pets but then falls on hard times.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

LouiseH said:


> I'm not going to get into the benefit discussion. Its horses for courses. Unless you know all of the facts about the individual in question then its impossible to give a fully educated response. At face value, it would seem strange that someone on benefits can be able to afford 4 big dogs (Harvey costs me around £100 a month alone), but it would seem that not all expenses are covered by OP.
> 
> The reason that I'm actually posting is because OP mentioned suffering with anxiety. Around 15 years ago, I started suffering with anxiety and panic attacks that became so severe I almost had to leave work. I started seeing a hypnotherapist and she managed to turn me around. I wouldn't say that I will have them again but I manage myself better and do avoid putting myself in certain situations. If you haven't already, it might be worth trying a hypnotherapist or counselling. I know this won't help with your other issues but suffering with anxiety is horrible.


But most people I know have suffered from, anxiety at certain points in their lives though & not used it as an excuse not to work.

Some people though, haven't worked for years as they 'suffer' with this condition .... surely then being at home is not working a maybe a job would help

I also find it difficult to understand how people cannot work yet can quite easily attend crowded events, go out with friends, etc - all manner of social interaction ... except a work place

My OH's mother is one of these people


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> But most people I know have suffered from, anxiety at certain points in their lives though & not used it as an excuse not to work.
> 
> Some people though, haven't worked for years as they 'suffer' with this condition .... surely then being at home is not working a maybe a job would help
> 
> ...


I can answer this, for various reasons I have bad social anxiety. I cant go into crowded places alone, I cant talk to strangers over the phone etc , I cant go out in a crowd of people by myself but if I have a friend with me or Apollo I will be able to do it, it doesn't mean im fine with it by any means but I can cope better.

Though I can work I worked with a councillor for 5 years to separate my day to day life from my work life, unfortunately I cant seem to bring my confidence from work situations into my day to day life, I suppose because for me bad things haven't happened in my work life

if im helping at big horse events which I do a couple times a year then im fine by myself in that setting, I can talk to hundreds of competitors and it not bother me infact im one of the best at what I do because that was my life and what I did for four years and it took 2 of those years (with counselling) for me to get completely comfortable with it. I hate going out alone but if im walking Apollo I love it. I don't think social anxiety can be categorized, every time someone knocks on my door, my brain goes crazy wondering who it is and what they want, I used to ignore the door unless I was waiting for a parcel, but now I have Apollo I feel safe knowing he is at the top of the stairs watching. it is very different when you have either your dog or friends with you when going into situations


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

There is a complete difference between general anxiety and a panic attack.
I know as I am a hypnotherapist and I treat these conditions most patients have to get someone to drive them to me as they are so anxious.
You don't get a panic attack everyday but you don't know when one is going to hit you either.
A full blown panic attack is when your body goes into fight or flight your heart beats like crazy you get breathless you start to shake all over you want to be sick, Your legs feel like they cant support you and it a very frightening experience.
Some says you just feel nervous. Other days you feel anxious and on a day when the panic hits you cant even think let alone do any work.
If you have never experiences a panic attack that huge then you cant understand why those who do have to give up work.
Some days they could never get into work as they cant even get out of the back door to hang washing in the garden.

So the OP has bad arthritis well on meds some days with it you can walk for miles other days on a very good day you can even run but on a bad day you cant do anything. As for the question should you have a dog or multiple dogs on benefits well if they make you happy and make you feel better and you give up luxuries yourself to feed the dogs and maybe save a little now and again for any vet bills then I don't see its any ones business

What does make me really mad though are the folks that live near me perfectly able bodied fiddling the benefit system hoping around on what I call the *golden walking sticks* then you see them in a supermarket lifting heavy things from high shelves now that get my goat.
I see pensioners managing their dogs with a measly amount of pension to live on who would rather put a heavy coat on in the house when its cold to save the price of heating and they do that so that their dog or dogs can have the best that they can.
OK that's my rant over


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Not finished reading the comments yet but going to reply to these first 



Sarah1983 said:


> I genuinely don't understand how people on benefits afford to buy pedigree dogs, feed, insure and pay normal vet bills for multiple dogs, afford Sky or whatever and go on holidays abroad. I've been on benefits and I struggled like hell to feed myself and Shadow, there was literally nothing left over for luxuries. I couldn't even afford the bus fare to go to job interviews after paying bills and buying food.
> 
> My parents are on disability benefits and slightly better off than I was but not by much.
> 
> If you're truly unable to work because of your disability then what about all the threads where you're doing courses to be a dog trainer or behaviourist? And the ones about dog walking for rescue?


Because I'm training to become a dog trainer/behaviourist whilst working on my anxiety around people. 
As I said in my previous post, arthritis is completely unpredictable and I can't work to a fixed schedule. I've done voluntary work in the past and have to give up after just a few weeks as I wasn't coping and this was only part time. 
With self employment I can work within my own limits and have days off when I need to which I will need on a regular basis. 
I hope that makes sense?



Cleo38 said:


> This sums up exactly how I feel.
> 
> I honestly do not believe there are many people who truly cannot work, there are many different types of jobs that require different types of physical activity, involvement with people, etc so there is (nearly) always a type of job a person can do.
> 
> ...





SixStar said:


> Dogs are a privilege, not a right. You cannot work because it hurts so much to walk but just the other day you posted a picture of you running through the woods with Rossi?! Hmm.


The picture running through the woods was last year. I don't know how much experience you have of arthritis but I have good days and bad days. And what you don't see is the tramadol and codiene in my system and the 6-12 hours it takes for me to recover from my woodland walks. I do them because I really enjoy them.

I'm also prone to muscle loss and without walking I become bed ridden and have to build myself back up slowly so I have to walk on a daily basis regardless of the pain, so I take my dogs with me.

Raven and Runa consist of walk 10 seconds through an ally way and I can sit on a field while they chase balls and have fun.

I walk Rossi because he and I, need it everyday. I also have an electric scooter to run him when I can't walk well.

I only walk scooby on good days and it is literally a trip around the block while focusing on his issues.

While I understand it may sound dodgy but how on earth can you compare walking a dog everyday to working full/part time? And as I've already mentioned, I've done voluntary work and tried really hard to get a job before resorting to benefits but found nothing suitable and was even disregarded due to my disabilities.

Where money is concerned, you have to remember I don't pay rent or bills at the moment. I don't use the PDSA either and I pay for my lots vet bills as normal and would only use the PDSA or other if I was desperate.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Apollo2012 said:


> I can answer this, for various reasons I have bad social anxiety. I cant go into crowded places alone, I cant talk to strangers over the phone etc , I cant go out in a crowd of people by myself but if I have a friend with me or Apollo I will be able to do it, it doesn't mean im fine with it by any means but I can cope better.
> 
> Though I can work I worked with a councillor for 5 years to separate my day to day life from my work life, unfortunately I cant seem to bring my confidence from work situations into my day to day life, I suppose because for me bad things haven't happened in my work life
> 
> if im helping at big horse events which I do a couple times a year then im fine by myself in that setting, I can talk to hundreds of competitors and it not bother me infact im one of the best at what I do because that was my life and what I did for four years and it took 2 of those years (with counselling) for me to get completely comfortable with it. I hate going out alone but if im walking Apollo I love it. I don't think social anxiety can be categorized, every time someone knocks on my door, my brain goes crazy wondering who it is and what they want, I used to ignore the door unless I was waiting for a parcel, but now I have Apollo I feel safe knowing he is at the top of the stairs watching. it is very different when you have either your dog or friends with you when going into situations


But .. do you not think that alot of people (most?) have anxieties of one type or another & just learn to manage them? I encounter massive stress when I start a new job, or attend an interview, etc but I still do these things because I have to.

I don't think it should be a 'get out' card (which I'm sorry if that offends some but that is how I feel) for being out of work long term.

I do know of quite a few people who through various tragic events in their life have been off work due to anxiety, I know various people who have suffered panic attacks (myself included), people who have suffered (& still suffer) from varying mental illnesses, I understand that every day life is difficult for alot of people but for some there seems to be just an acceptance that they 'can't' work & that's that - no plan to return to a work place, no plan to push themselves, no recognition that everyone has difficulties in every day life or that nobody sails through life being handed everything on a plate


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> It depends,what do you mean by *you choose not to work*.:confused5:


Wish I could choose not to work.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Apollo2012 said:


> I can answer this, for various reasons I have bad social anxiety. I cant go into crowded places alone, I cant talk to strangers over the phone etc , I cant go out in a crowd of people by myself but if I have a friend with me or Apollo I will be able to do it, it doesn't mean im fine with it by any means but I can cope better.


wow, you sound just like me! Even down to the not answering the door.
I used to get awful panic attacks as a teenager and couldnt go anywhere near a crowded high street NM a cinema or pub. However I needed a job so I forced myself interact with people. ok, I might have spent the first few years crying in toilets, drinking too much and self harming but I can now fake a pretty convincing 'normal' person at work and pay my own way! So I think its possible to get over (or push through) social anxiety.
Arthritis is a different issue though and some days its not possible to work through that!
Just curious though OP.....does someone else walk your dogs for you?? Its just Im not sure I would of gotten a very energetic bouncy breed like a Boxer if some days I couldnt walk them at all.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Can I just say that I have social anxiety disorder as well as other things, but I still worked for 10 years and have now gone self employed. I could also claim DLA benefits but I don't. 
There are plenty of self employed job categories that have minimal contact with people but still earn a wage.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> I hope that makes sense?


The problem with starting a thread like this is that to a certain extent you will become a victim of the media. The benefits system was put in place to help those that genuinely need it. The media only highlights those that abuse it.

The big question in general terms is in what proportion are these two groups and is the weight shifting towards the latter.

OP my advice is leave this thread and take Rossi for a walk :thumbup1:


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Personally I don't know how people who don't work can afford to have dogs, I'm sorry if that sounds mean but I know how much we struggle and we bring in about £45,000 a year between us. 

First you have to buy the dog - Blade was £600 and I saved up for him ( well not for him I -was- saving for a Bernese mountain dog :lol:
We we're given Taz but say we bought him as a pup there is another £600. 

So I can roughly estimate I have at least £1200 worth of dog sat beside me on the sofa at the moment. 

Now onto food, when I was feeding them both dry I was spending £80 a month!!!  That was almost two months ago so Blade would have only been 3 months old. I did plan to swap them both onto Eden when Blade was a year old. Would have cost me £1.08 per day to feed Blade and about 50p per day to feed Taz so around £50 a month. 

Insurance - £26 for Taz and £13 per month for Blade, there is another £39 

Worm & Flea preventative about £28.00 for both 

Misc items bed/treats/toys : about £30 a month? 

So without anything happening to them and needing vet treatment there is already about £150 a month! 


We would love to add a third dog to our clan once Blade is about 18 months but I can't see it happening, we won't be able to afford another poochie another mouth to feed , and a life to take care of. 

It's the same with babies , me and my OH would never be able to afford a baby ( I don't want them either but! ) yet I see thousands of 16 /17 /18 year olds churning them out. Having their rent paid, council tax paid etc etc


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

lostbear said:


> This makes me sooo angry! Benefits are SUBSISTENCE level - not lying-by-your-private-pool-while-the-butler-peels-you-a-grape level. Yes - there are a few high-profile cases where people are fiddling or manipulating the system and doing very well out of it, but most people on benefits struggle with day to day *loving*, and if a bill comes in for something unexpected - they are stuffed!
> 
> I've been there myself (not now, thank heavens) and life is one long worry. 1 slice of bread and an egg to feed two kids until the money comes tomorrow; me and husband not eating for two days so that the children and the dogs can; buying the cheapest of everything from those weigh-it-out shops because that way if you only have 13p to spend on cereal, you can buy 13p worth of cereal; walking EVERYWHERE, no matter what the weather, because the bus is too dear. For the vast majority of people, benefits is NOT a life choice, and it certainly isn't a doddle.
> 
> I do think, though, that benefits should be capped. People shouldn't be able to claim more on benefits than the average wage. I do get annoyed when couples with 14 kids get the equivalent of £75,000 a year - and next to none of it goes on the bairns. It might stop people having huge families that they don't take care of. ANd I know that again these are the exception, not the rule, but seeing these publicised makes everyone think that benefits is the good life, and it isn't.


I definitely struggle with day to day loving cos I do not have a partner. I'm on ESA and dla because I am disabled with osteoarthritis and m.e. owning 2 amazing dogs makes my days brighter and I couldn't give a toss about what other people think...they don't live my life. I'd work if I could. Why do people become so obsessed over what others have?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

My step dad has had two operations on his back and one on the top of his spine , his been told the next disc has started collapsing , but they want to hold off for now as it will just have on a knock on effect to the next one. He has to wear a back brace and is drugged up daily. His not even 50 yet , guess what he goes to work, in and out his car all day seeing clients. 

My late BIL had epilepsy , he worked . His epilepsy was that bad , it killed him at the age of 25........

I do believe there are genuine people who can't work but excuses seem to come too easily for some people


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Lavenderb said:


> Why do people become so obsessed over what others have?


I think its coz the government doesnt have a secret forest of money trees to provide for benefits so it has to come from other peoples taxes!
*is now thinking about owning a garden full of money trees*


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> But most people I know have suffered from, anxiety at certain points in their lives though & not used it as an excuse not to work.
> 
> Some people though, haven't worked for years as they 'suffer' with this condition .... surely then being at home is not working a maybe a job would help
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree with you. Anyone who has suffered severe panic attacks knows how it can effect every normal aspect of your life and if you don't take control it can pretty much ruin your life which is why doing nothing is foolish. It is a mental health issue without a doubt and more often than not won't just go away without some form of help (whether that be self help or seeking help from a third party). The thought of losing my job was what really shook me into reality.

The down side is that there are people who will claim to be sufferers to such a degree that they claim not to be able to do anything (I also know one of these) but proving it is a problem. Yes, most people suffer from some form of anxiety at some point but there are most certainly some more severe cases than others.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> I think its coz the government doesnt have a secret forest of money trees to provide for benefits so it has to come from other peoples taxes!
> *is now thinking about owning a garden full of money trees*


They seem to have a secret forest for their MP's expenses though :001_huh:


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> They seem to have a secret forest for their MP's expenses though :001_huh:


Funny that isn`t it!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

If people with _most_ disabilities and illnesses wanted to work bad enough, they can (and do!). There is a gentleman in our local supermarket who has no legs but works at the checkouts in his wheelchair - if he can do this, why can't somebody with arthritis do the same? Several of the trolley boys have learning difficulties and there is a lady who delivers food to the tables in the garden centre cafe who is deaf. All these people could sit at home and claim benefits but do they? No! And bloody good on them!

OP - could you not do an office job or sit at a checkout? These are not manual physical jobs - and I see no reason as to why your 'good day' or 'bad day' patterns would affect your ability to do such work?

If benefits are allowing people to own four dogs, and purchase a pedigree puppy, something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Everyone makes choices about what they spend their money on, wether they are unemployed, employed, retired or whatever. 
It is no-one`s business what you choose to prioritise. 
You need to ignore these people.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't really want to weigh in on this argument, however I do feel the OP is being targeted, whereas other members who have in the past admitted the same are left alone with multiple dogs.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either side, but surely then all other members should be asked if they could work too with whatever they claim for.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

No issues with people owning dogs while on benefits, BUT I do have issues with people who keep adding dogs to the mix! I was made redundant and had 3 dogs so we struggled on benefits then, and again when I had back surgery medically I shouldn't be working now but financially I have too. I do get peoples frustrations we have a couple across from us who don't work yet have managed to buy a Bassett and a Shar Pei in under a year, if benefits is so hand to mouth why do I have to save for a year . If they can afford to buy pedigree dogs at the drop of a hat?

OP I have no issue with you getting benefits that your entitled too, but if you purchased a predigree puppy ( not sure if she's just yours) surely you can afford rent? Your Mum might not want it but it's a gesture! That's the only bit I struggle with, if benefits are so tough now how can people afford to buy puppies? None of my business really but you put it out there!


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## BenBoy (Aug 31, 2013)

I have just sat and read this thread so thought I may as well share my opinion.

The title is "getting grief for owning *A* dog"

You are currently living with 4 dogs, granted you are only financial responsible for two of them or three, I cant remember what you said about the puppy now. But anyway if you were my next door neighbour and I saw you with your 4 dogs, one being a puppy and not working. I would be annoyed, I just would. Me and hubby both work full time, we have one dog, we have a mortgage. We have a credit card bill from doing things to the house that were needed, like a new boiler for example and a bathroom as the other one was falling apart literally.

I agree with the person who said what about working behind a check out or something like that. Are you registered with temping agencies? The thing is tho if you did get a job, what about the dogs?

I am sorry for your disability but I think if you had one lazy basset hound, you likely wouldn't get the grief!


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't really want to weigh in on this argument, however I do feel the OP is being targeted, whereas other members who have in the past admitted the same are left alone with multiple dogs.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either side, but surely then all other members should be asked if they could work too with whatever they claim for.


Agree. Although I am fully behind the viewpoint that those who can work should.. I think it's inappropriate to be discussing the OPs medical condition and ability to work in a public forum. You could argue with a little foresight they might have guessed the thread would go this way but whatever I think it should stop now.. and so should I.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Going into town, a pub or another social setting that you can leave at any time is very different to being trapped inside by a job


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> But .. do you not think that alot of people (most?) have anxieties of one type or another & just learn to manage them? I encounter massive stress when I start a new job, or attend an interview, etc but I still do these things because I have to.
> 
> I don't think it should be a 'get out' card (which I'm sorry if that offends some but that is how I feel) for being out of work long term.
> 
> I do know of quite a few people who through various tragic events in their life have been off work due to anxiety, I know various people who have suffered panic attacks (myself included), people who have suffered (& still suffer) from varying mental illnesses, I understand that every day life is difficult for alot of people but for some there seems to be just an acceptance that they 'can't' work & that's that - no plan to return to a work place, no plan to push themselves, no recognition that everyone has difficulties in every day life or that nobody sails through life being handed everything on a plate


I think a lot of people possibly do have anxiety but to different degrees I dealt with some of mine by seeing a professional to talk through my issues and work on them (well I used to I don't have the time now which has adversely effect me). I suppose it depends on what experiences issues stem from. obviously im not going to go into detail of why I have anxiety issues but shoving bad experiences to the back of my mind for a long time didn't help. there are a lot of tragic events that can effect people I think not dealing with them is a big problem and I do know people that just let it control their life, sit at home all day complaining that they cant do anything etc and it drives me mad but I suppose that is there choice not to face their issues. I love being outside and going to fun parks and things with my daughter so I know to do that I have to deal with my social anxiety so I can have all the fun experiences with her (but I don't do any of these things without a friend with me).

I am going to say I think difficulties in every day life like stress are very different to anxiety from issues such as abuse and violent experiences, there really are just to many different triggers for anxiety some is easy to deal with some isn't and completely different types, like I deal well in situations like work where there is structure and organisation such as when I help out at horse events, there are hundreds of people and im fine, but if you chucked me into a concert by myself with loads of people I would have a panic attack and completely freak out and even to me that seems completely irrational but that's the way my messed up mind works :frown2:


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

diefenbaker said:


> Agree. Although I am fully behind the viewpoint that those who can work should.. I think it's inappropriate to be discussing the OPs medical condition and ability to work in a public forum. You could argue with a little foresight they might have guessed the thread would go this way but whatever I think it should stop now.. and so should I.


I agree, I just think it a bit of a double standard really. Whilst some get support another is attacked.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

When you have a physical disability you often have good days and bad days, so while it may be possible to 'run through the woods' one day it may be impossible to do so the next. On disability benefit you are regularly assessed by an independent body with the input of your own GP, you don't just get money dished out with no follow up. In cases of mental frailty you can't see any disability but its one, if not the most debilitating form of illness anyone can have. So just because a neighbour may seem fit its wrong to judge that they are as you have no idea what condition they are suffering from. Medication also plays a huge part in whether you can operate properly or not, with medication on a bad day I can walk a ward for fourteen hours but without it would be impossible. 

There is a lot of prejudice towards benefit recipients these days and this government is aiding to that in a massive way. Making people who have lived in a home, built it up and socialised with neighbours over many years move into a totally alien environment while cutting taxes for the rich is just one. Who pays those removal fees, who pays for carpets or curtains they then have to replace with no money to do so? Questions I asked James Dudridge my local MP which he didn't answer, other than to say we need more housing space. My reply was: then build more and cap immigration, don't make the poorest of this country a scapegoat for political failings. No reply, of course! 

To me a dog is not a luxury any more than a dishwasher, car, iPhone, holiday or telly yet no one bats an eye at the money spent on and to maintain those items. A dog is part of a family and not something you dispose of in times of hardship when there are plenty of other things in life that we can do without and not cause suffering to an innocent pet. My mum never had a washing machine, car, Hoover or a phone when I was young but she always had a dog, proving that the real luxuries in life can be done without.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Malmum said:


> *To me a dog is not a luxury any more than a dishwasher, car, iPhone, holiday or telly yet no one bats an eye at the money spent on and to maintain those items*.* A dog is part of a family and not something you dispose of in times of hardship when there are plenty of other things in life that we can do without and not cause suffering to an innocent pet*. My mum never had a washing machine, car, Hoover or a phone when I was young but she always had a dog, proving that the real luxuries in life can be done without.


Those are all luxuries and i would question people affording them on benefit. Well sky/virgin TV, latest iPhone, holiday ...

No one is saying people should dispose of their pets while on benefit just not add to the numbers . I can see someone wanting one for company , to help with anxiety going out etc but is adding to the numbers when you already have 3 in the house , is that not a luxury 

I would like another dog , but the responsibility of the true cost of owning another one puts me off .


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Malmum said:


> When you have a physical disability you often have good days and bad days, so while it may be possible to 'run through the woods' one day it may be impossible to do so the next. On disability benefit you are regularly assessed by an independent body with the input of your own GP, you don't just get money dished out with no follow up. In cases of mental frailty you can't see any disability but its one, if not the most debilitating form of illness anyone can have. So just because a neighbour may seem fit its wrong to judge that they are as you have no idea what condition they are suffering from. Medication also plays a huge part in whether you can operate properly or not, with medication on a bad day I can walk a ward for fourteen hours but without it would be impossible.
> 
> There is a lot of prejudice towards benefit recipients these days and this government is aiding to that in a massive way. Making people who have lived in a home, built it up and socialised with neighbours over many years move into a totally alien environment while cutting taxes for the rich is just one. Who pays those removal fees, who pays for carpets or curtains they then have to replace with no money to do so? Questions I asked James Dudridge my local MP which he didn't answer, other than to say we need more housing space. My reply was: then build more and cap immigration, don't make the poorest of this country a scapegoat for political failings. No reply, of course!
> 
> To me a dog is not a luxury any more than a dishwasher, car, iPhone, holiday or telly yet no one bats an eye at the money spent on and to maintain those items. A dog is part of a family and not something you dispose of in times of hardship when there are plenty of other things in life that we can do without and not cause suffering to an innocent pet. My mum never had a washing machine, car, Hoover or a phone when I was young but she always had a dog, proving that the real luxuries in life can be done without.


No one is saying dogs should be disposed off no where in the thread is that mentioned!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Malmum said:


> When you have a physical disability you often have good days and bad days, so while it may be possible to 'run through the woods' one day it may be impossible to do so the next. On disability benefit you are regularly assessed by an independent body with the input of your own GP, you don't just get money dished out with no follow up. In cases of mental frailty you can't see any disability but its one, if not the most debilitating form of illness anyone can have. So just because a neighbour may seem fit its wrong to judge that they are as you have no idea what condition they are suffering from. Medication also plays a huge part in whether you can operate properly or not, with medication on a bad day I can walk a ward for fourteen hours but without it would be impossible.
> 
> There is a lot of prejudice towards benefit recipients these days and this government is aiding to that in a massive way. Making people who have lived in a home, built it up and socialised with neighbours over many years move into a totally alien environment while cutting taxes for the rich is just one. Who pays those removal fees, who pays for carpets or curtains they then have to replace with no money to do so? Questions I asked James Dudridge my local MP which he didn't answer, other than to say we need more housing space. My reply was: then build more and cap immigration, don't make the poorest of this country a scapegoat for political failings. No reply, of course!
> 
> *To me a dog is not a luxury any more than a dishwasher, car, iPhone, holiday or telly yet no one bats an eye at the money spent on and to maintain those items.* A dog is part of a family and not something you dispose of in times of hardship when there are plenty of other things in life that we can do without and not cause suffering to an innocent pet. My mum never had a washing machine, car, Hoover or a phone when I was young but she always had a dog, proving that the real luxuries in life can be done without.


A dog IS a luxury, and four dogs is most certainly a luxury. No one HAS to own multiple dogs - it's a lifestyle choice IF you can afford to pay for them. In an ideal world I would spend all day with my dogs, but the reality is that I have to work to pay for them. So yes, I do begrudge those that have even more pets than I do yet do not work for them. I know how much my three cost on a monthly basis and one of them is a toy breed, so I can imagine the costs associated with four larger breed dogs on a monthly basis.

Surely the idea of benefits is to support someone through hard times, not be a long term way of living (baring severely ill/disabled people)? because you could quite easily argue that if someone is capable of caring for four active breeds of dog on a daily basis, they could possibly manage some sort of work too?


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Meezey said:


> No one is saying dogs should be disposed off no where in the thread is that mentioned!


I have every sympathy for people who have to survive on benefits if they really are unable to work. However I also think working can be a great help to anyone. I have a nephew who has epilepsy as a result of a brain tumour. He spent most of his childhood in hospital, and they weren't able to remove all the tumour. His memory is awful, and he can have fits every day.

He was desparate to work, and spent literally years putting in applications and going for interviews - and also losing jobs as a result of his fits! He has a basic job now, but is happy just to be working as it makes him he's worth something.

I've quoted Meezey as I also can't see where any suggestion has been made about getting rid of dogs - but buying an expensive pedigree pup on benefits is a step too far for me. Adopting a rescue would sit better if its upkeep could be afforded.

I think that the OP opened a can of worms with this thread. It's an emotive subject. Especially when you've seen, as I have, someone who's tried so hard to get out of the benefit trap.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

SixStar said:


> If people with _most_ disabilities and illnesses wanted to work bad enough, they can (and do!). There is a gentleman in our local supermarket who has no legs but works at the checkouts in his wheelchair - if he can do this, why can't somebody with arthritis do the same? Several of the trolley boys have learning difficulties and there is a lady who delivers food to the tables in the garden centre cafe who is deaf. All these people could sit at home and claim benefits but do they? No! And bloody good on them!
> 
> OP - could you not do an office job or sit at a checkout? These are not manual physical jobs - and I see no reason as to why your 'good day' or 'bad day' patterns would affect your ability to do such work?
> 
> If benefits are allowing people to own four dogs, and purchase a pedigree puppy, something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.


Agree with all of the above.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

It's one thing managing to hold on to a job after becoming ill or disabled, it's another entirely to get one to start with - employers discriminate massively against disabilities, because it might cost them money and there are plenty of other applicants.

How successful do you realistically think people will be at getting a job when not only do they have a disability, but that disability then adds extra complications and restrictions on to what jobs you can even apply for to start with? I've been looking for another part time job for over a year, I'm already in employment (I currently work from home) I'm able bodied and I have a degree and I'm struggling to even get interviews for things like checkout jobs in supermarkets.

Disability benefits are not easy to get, people die of illnesses after being declared fit for work by DWP, having terminal cancer doesn't even entitle you to benefits if you are expected to live more than 6 months, if you are awarded them because of a terminal illness and outlive your original estimate your benefits are stopped.

It really isn't as simple as just getting a job or choosing to get benefits.

Walking dogs is not the same as working, you can tailor walking around anything you have going on, employers, funnily enough don't let you do that.
Some disabilities and illnesses aren't straightforward or immediately visible - that doesn't mean they don't have a massive effect on your employability.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tabulahrasa said:


> It's one thing managing to hold on to a job after becoming ill or disabled, it's another entirely to get one to start with - employers discriminate massively against disabilities, because it might cost them money and there are plenty of other applicants.
> 
> How successful do you realistically think people will be at getting a job when not only do they have a disability, but that disability then adds extra complications and restrictions on to what jobs you can even apply for to start with? I've been looking for another part time job for over a year, I'm already in employment (I currently work from home) I'm able bodied and I have a degree and I'm struggling to even get interviews for things like checkout jobs in supermarkets.
> 
> ...


And I get all that. I can how ever understand peoples frustrations when they struggle to get by working full time, but people on benefits can afford to go out and buy dogs? If it's hand to mouth as so many say how can it be done? So maybe that's issue the person has in the OP's original post? Getting back to the question asked!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Malmum said:


> To me a dog is not a luxury any more than a dishwasher, car, iPhone, holiday or telly yet no one bats an eye at the money spent on and to maintain those items.


the only one of those I have is a telly, and even then not all the fancy channels! Surely anything that isnt food, shelter or warmth counts as a luxury??
(that means my dogs arent a luxury item coz even though I dont eat them or shelter under them they do provide alot of heating in the winter months!).


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> It's one thing managing to hold on to a job after becoming ill or disabled, it's another entirely to get one to start with - employers discriminate massively against disabilities, because it might cost them money and there are plenty of other applicants.
> 
> How successful do you realistically think people will be at getting a job when not only do they have a disability, but that disability then adds extra complications and restrictions on to what jobs you can even apply for to start with? I've been looking for another part time job for over a year, I'm already in employment (I currently work from home) I'm able bodied and I have a degree and I'm struggling to even get interviews for things like checkout jobs in supermarkets.
> 
> ...


I'm sure most of us can appreciate how hard it can be to get a job whether we are able bodied or disabled. It took me several years to find a job more closely related to my qualifications and that was while I was in work, so I can imagine how hard it is when out of work. However, I don't think the difficulty of securing work is particularly relevant to the subject being discussed. There is a difference in someone who is attempting to seek work and someone who potentially could but actively has no intention of doing so.

No, looking after dogs is not the same as working. But if you have energy to spend a good proportion of the day entertaining four dogs, then I think it could be argued that some of that productivity could potentially be used to work. Again, I'm NOT saying it's easy to find work, but that is a bit hypocritical to say that work is not possible but entertaining four active breeds of dog is. Especially when one of those is a young puppy and we all know how much hard work they can be.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

sskmick said:


> Just throwing a question out here.
> 
> As most members know we are in our mid 50s have a total of six pets, extremely actively on a weekly basis running a Karate club, teaching, training, and competing from time to time. Hubby is a hobby photographer, we walk the dog on a daily basis for between 1 to 2 hours a day.
> 
> ...


Sounds a bit like you're saying because of society's bad attitude towards benefit recipients, you're husband knowingly puts other people at risk by driving on strong medication, rather than go on DLA himself  surely not what you mean.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Wow, this is an interesting thread with a lot of though provoking opinions.



Fluffster said:


> I'm not sure about the "choosing not to work" comment, I'm sure a lot of us would like to be able to choose not to work, I know I would!
> 
> I work fulltime as does OH and we both earn decent salaries, but I think four dogs would be pushing it for us in terms of affordability and just affording a house big enough to house them all so it must be very tight on benefits! But if you are entitled to them for good reason then they are yours to spend as you see fit - but I think in general people can get resentful when they see someone able to afford stuff while not working that they would struggle to afford while having a job, just human nature.





Sarah1983 said:


> I genuinely don't understand how people on benefits afford to buy pedigree dogs, feed, insure and pay normal vet bills for multiple dogs, afford Sky or whatever and go on holidays abroad. I've been on benefits and I struggled like hell to feed myself and Shadow, there was literally nothing left over for luxuries. I couldn't even afford the bus fare to go to job interviews after paying bills and buying food.
> 
> My parents are on disability benefits and slightly better off than I was but not by much.
> 
> If you're truly unable to work because of your disability then what about all the threads where you're doing courses to be a dog trainer or behaviourist? And the ones about dog walking for rescue?





LolaBoo said:


> Just wanted to add, to fund the girls stuff like collars, harnesses, leads etc, i sell there good condition bits they have either grown out of or dont use anymore on ebay, so i then can get them the stuff they need, i just bought a Julius lime green harness for Apple as she grew out of other one in 6 weeks yes it was second hand in perfect condition and i paid £14 for it, i try and save money where i can


My daughter's bf gets £40 a week. How the heck is anyone supposed to live on that. He goes for numerous interviews but so far, over 2 years, he has been unlucky. Only basic jobs such as supermarket or other shops. He could do far more but is not trying to be ambitious.



ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Personally I don't know how people who don't work can afford to have dogs, I'm sorry if that sounds mean but I know how much we struggle and we bring in about £45,000 a year between us.
> 
> First you have to buy the dog - Blade was £600 and I saved up for him ( well not for him I -was- saving for a Bernese mountain dog :lol:
> We we're given Taz but say we bought him as a pup there is another £600.
> ...


Wow! I am sorry for you. We have never earned even half of what you are earning. We were living off an overdraft at one time. Yet we have always had multiple dogs and never spent much to keep them. Always managed to have horses too. I think everyone spends their money on what they want to and however much or little they have will always plead poverty.

As for the person who said they keep their costs down and have bought a harness for £14 - I have never spent more than £4 on a collar and lead and one does for life.

There is no doubt that disabilities do come and go. I knew someone who was on benefits for her disability. She had a free computer, a motability car which she could not drive so her husband had it, a fair amount of money coming in as they had 3 kids and her husband was in and out of jobs. there was lots of moans about her but as she once told me - they do not see the bad days.
But then when all her kids left home and the benefits reduced she became a full time taxi driver 

I have a neighbour who is truly disabled. He struggles on two sticks, he has fits, he falls down and he is in a great deal of pain and he is in and out of hospital. He has not worked for 24 years but with the new assessments he was afraid he would be told he could so he has got himself a job at the local supermarket. They know all his health problems and have worked round them to make sure he is as comfortable as possible. He has no idea if he is going to manage but he is trying and feeling good for doing so. I think it is disgraceful that someone this bad should be forced to do this though and if he cant manage he will probably have a dreadful job getting back in the benefit system.

As far as mental health problems and anxiety goes - what on earth did people used to do before they could use it as a reason not to work and get benefits.


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

I got Jasper when I only had mental health issues, I've got bad anxiety and panic attacks all stemming from a phobia but there are some days i'm not that bad and some days I'm very bad.

My phobia is being sick, and its something that you can't avoid, How could I work somewhere (being how I am atm) when I'm terrified of touching someone's hand or touching money or someone looking too pale so therefore must be ill, its completely irrational but that doesn't stop me panicking every time someone says they've got stomach ache or feel a bit ill. I can't go on buses, in lifts, in crowded places, in places too warm, in strange cars, in any closed room without knowing all the exits in case someone is ill and I can't get out and i'm trapped with them. But I could walk Jasper with my mum and feel only very slightly anxious and it cheered my up and made me start to enjoy life again. 

Now i'm physically ill. I can't walk most days without extreme pain and dislocations. My mum has had to take over taking Jasper for long walks, she loves him and he is just as much her dog than he is mine. I can walk the minute walk down to our grass and sit on the bench and throw a frisbee or ball or do some training and games with him, but wouldn't be able to walk far (most days). My mum is a member on here, so just as crazy about animals as I am and I know if something would happen to me and I couldn't afford him She (and the rest of my family) would look after him until i'm back on my feet. 

I wish I could work and go to college but no person is going to employ someone who looks at everyone like they're going to turn into a zombie and eat her and is applying anti bacterial hand gel after touching anything or anyone. That's not to say that in the future I'm not going to be able to work. 

If I didn't have Jasper I don't think I would be here right now, he's saved my life in so many ways. I know other people with illness' their dog is their lifeline so who is anyone to say that they shouldn't have an pet. So long as the person knows they are going to be able to afford them and has a secure back up plan if anything fails.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> But .. do you not think that alot of people (most?) have anxieties of one type or another & just learn to manage them? I encounter massive stress when I start a new job, or attend an interview, etc but I still do these things because I have to.
> 
> I don't think it should be a 'get out' card (which I'm sorry if that offends some but that is how I feel) for being out of work long term.


You're right, that is offensive. Incredibly so.

There's an immense difference between normal feelings of anxiety and stress before an interview or when starting a new job and having an anxiety disorder. Comparing the two is like suggesting people with depression should get over it because we all feel sad sometimes.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> Those are all luxuries and i would question people affording them on benefit. Well sky/virgin TV, latest iPhone, holiday ...
> 
> No one is saying people should dispose of their pets while on benefit just not add to the numbers . I can see someone wanting one for company , to help with anxiety going out etc but is adding to the numbers when you already have 3 in the house , is that not a luxury
> 
> I would like another dog , but the responsibility of the true cost of owning another one puts me off .


I agree! They are luxuries. Luxuries that many working people do without... (my family included)


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I wish I could have so many dogs and not have to work.

I work full time, have a decent-ish wage and since getting Io I have really been struggling with money! So how people on benefits can afford all these dogs amazes me as I can barely afford one!

Just one thing - there is a lady who lives across from me who claims disability allowance due to a bad leg! SHE HAS A BAD LEG AND YET HAS TWO DOGS! Two dogs that hardly ever get taken for walks, and one is a young yellow labrador. Why have two dogs when you had a bad leg? Or atleast rescue an eldery dog, not a young labrador.

Annoys me 

I'd love to get another dog in the future as a friend for Io, but I just don't see it happening. My partner isn't very doggy and he pays no financial contribution to Io.. or even the cat! So me getting a second dog in the future probably won't happen.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Surely having to rely on the benefit system can make anxieties worse. I remember when we were on benefits, I'd dread the postman coming in fear of what their next letter would say. Will they cancel our housing benefit this week (which they did a few times) or will they reduce the tiny amount of money we were getting.
To me, that is far more stressful. I'd rather be independent.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> Disability benefits are not easy to get, people die of illnesses after being declared fit for work by DWP, *having terminal cancer doesn't even entitle you to benefits if you are expected to live more than 6 months*, if you are awarded them because of a terminal illness and outlive your original estimate your benefits are stopped.


Unless things have changed in the last five years that's not entirely accurate.

My husband was diagnosed with a rare incurable cancer in 2008 with a prognosis of a maximum of 4.5 years left. We had our own business, a small restaurant, which he obviously couldn't run continuously whilst receiving chemo. I had just turned 60 and receiving my state pension so we sold the business and the social worker at the hospital sorted out his forms and he received incapacity benefit. Further on down the line he was able to claim DLA at the lower level and IIRC he received this for a couple of years. Once he had been advised it was officially terminal (when you're told you're not expected to last more than six months and of course the hospital has to confirm this) he was put on the higher rate of DLA and received this until he died.

Some people can and do continue to work whilst receiving chemo, it depends on their illness and their treatment, but certain benefits can be available to cancer patients if they can't work. I believe it's only classed as terminal once you're not expected to live beyond six months, I think it's classed as treatable or incurable prior to that.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Worm & Flea preventative about £28.00 for both


Really?! I think you need to find a cheaper supplier if that's what you're paying per month!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> You're right, that is offensive. Incredibly so.
> 
> There's an immense difference between normal feelings of anxiety and stress before an interview or when starting a new job and having an anxiety disorder. Comparing the two is like suggesting people with depression should get over it because we all feel sad sometimes.


Fair enough 

I have had quite a stressful year (without going in to details) yet have to push myself as there are no other options & with my BF having sporadic work I am the one bringing in regular money to pay bills.

As for certain anxieties then I don't think there always is an immense difference in all cases. I read posts on here from some people & they seem to think that everyone else sails through life with no problems, no insecurities, no worries, no stress .... life isn't easy 

At times, people need o push themselves & I don't believe they always do or are encouraqed to do so.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

PawsOnMe said:


> If I didn't have Jasper I don't think I would be here right now, he's saved my life in so many ways. I know other people with illness' their dog is their lifeline *so who is anyone to say that they shouldn't have an pet.* So long as the person knows they are going to be able to afford them and has a secure back up plan if anything fails.


Ahh, no one said people shouldn't have a pet. There is a world of difference between one pet dog and four pet dogs. Should tax payers be paying for people to keep multiple pet dogs when that is a luxury they cannot afford themselves?


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> But .. do you not think that alot of people (most?) have anxieties of one type or another & just learn to manage them? I encounter massive stress when I start a new job, or attend an interview, etc but I still do these things because I have to.


I agree - I think it's called life!

I would happily be a hermit and never leave the house or see other people  BUT I have to work so I get on with it - same with my medical problems ... like many thousands of others - we get on with it ....



SixStar said:


> If people with _most_ disabilities and illnesses wanted to work bad enough, they can (and do!). There is a gentleman in our local supermarket who has no legs but works at the checkouts in his wheelchair - if he can do this, why can't somebody with arthritis do the same? Several of the trolley boys have learning difficulties and there is a lady who delivers food to the tables in the garden centre cafe who is deaf. All these people could sit at home and claim benefits but do they? No! And bloody good on them!


Good post and totally agree


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Something happened to me (not me specifically but I was directly affected) 7 years ago which caused me to become severely depressed. I could not claim anything for it, I was forced back into work within a month with the threat of becoming homeless so I had no choice. 
I'm not saying that was the right way to go about it, definitely not, it was awful but I do think it would help to focus on things you can do rather than on what you can't.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

bearcub said:


> Really?! I think you need to find a cheaper supplier if that's what you're paying per month!


I get them from the vet  I am overly anxious about not giving them the right amount or doing it wrong. I was in a panic the other night about how much painkiller to give Blade even though it was 2MG per KG of weight and he's 16 Kg on the dot , I had to come here and ask whether 25MG was too much


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> I agree - I think it's called life!
> 
> I would happily be a hermit and never leave the house or see other people  BUT I have to work so I get on with it - same with my medical problems ... like many thousands of others - we get on with it ....


Sadly true anxiety problems are nothing like the 'normal' life worries or stresses.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I have a neighbour who is truly disabled. He struggles on two sticks, he has fits, he falls down and he is in a great deal of pain and he is in and out of hospital. He has not worked for 24 years but with the new assessments he was afraid he would be told he could so he has got himself a job at the local supermarket. They know all his health problems and have worked round them to make sure he is as comfortable as possible.


This seems at odds with what a lot of other posters are putting. Even with all his problems he's waltzed into a job. This would suggest that employers are not massively discriminating against the disabled and in fact could end up in court if it could be proved that were the case. Apparently France has a HWD ( hiring with disability ) quota if it's not too far to commute.



Blitz said:


> He has no idea if he is going to manage but he is trying and feeling good for doing so. I think it is disgraceful that someone this bad should be forced to do this though and if he cant manage he will probably have a dreadful job getting back in the benefit system.


You say he's feeling good about himself. Perhaps there are other benefits to going to work than just getting some money.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

Interesting thread.

While I can get just as self-righteous as the next guy, I have to remind myself that really, worrying about where someone else gets their money, what they spend it on, and if it's "fair" is just going to make me miserable and has no real effect on things one way or another. 
Bottom line, it's none of my business what someone else's medical, financial, or benefit situation is. Will I have an opinion about it? Definitely, but that opinion is shaped by personal experience, not necessarily what is "right". 

It's also interesting to see how the welfare system works differently in different countries. Ten years ago I had preemie twins. By law I only get off work 8 weeks. I was on bed-rest in the hospital for 5 weeks, the babies were in NICU for 20 and 30 days. Obviously I wasn't going to send them straight to daycare after coming home from the hospital, and I stayed home with them for another 4 months. I had banked sick days, and I had purchased short-term disability insurance which kicked in after 30 days of no work, but that's it. No government agency kicked in to help us out. Oh, and we had to pay 20% of the medical bills. (Took us over 4 years to pay that off.)
Once I went back to work, OH worked nights, I worked days so we didn't have to send the babies to day care - both financially and for their health. It was brutal. I was working on sometimes 2 hours of sleep, as was OH. But we made it work, in part I guess because we had no other choice. 

I'm kind of torn on the whole welfare thing. Certainly I don't wish hardship or misfortune on anyone, but I also know that it's amazing what you can do when you find yourself with no other option, and the self-worth you gain from making it through to the other side is worth more than any amount on an assistance check.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> I get them from the vet  I am overly anxious about not giving them the right amount or doing it wrong. I was in a panic the other night about how much painkiller to give Blade even though it was 2MG per KG of weight and he's 16 Kg on the dot , I had to come here and ask whether 25MG was too much


Bless you, I'm sure you could get them cheaper although wouldn't want you to worry! We worm ours every three months and never use preventative flea treatment, makes me sound rubbish, lol, so I never think of it as a monthly expense.


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

I havent read all the posts.. but wish the benefits system was there to actually help people, see people claiming and getting their gardens done and having new windows and doors all from the council when we struggle to get by. 

I have applied several times for incap ben.. then esa after it changed, i have severe endometriosis am on morphine and many other drugs, im shaky, in pain, tired and struggle to move sometimes but apparently they dont think anything is wrong with me even though my gp.. my gynae and my gastroenterologist all wrote to say otherwise after my 9 surgeries which will be continued.

I gave up in the end and now struggle self employed making about £80 a week.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> Sadly true anxiety problems are nothing like the 'normal' life worries or stresses.


I suppose its telling the difference isnt it? I mean some people might have an anxiety problem and be crippled by panic attacks and be unable to cope with 'normal' life but manage to force themselves through it coz they dont have another option. Others might go the therapy option and just give up or accept a limited existence....or maybe they really do have 'that' bad a problem! TBH you cant tell someone else their anxiety problem isnt as bad as yours/better then yours without knowing them.
Kinda like other phobias. Say you are afraid of spiders but have no-one to help you remove them?? How many hours/days do you stay in one room before you are forced to remove it yourself? Im betting most people would tackle the spider rather then die of thirst!


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

bearcub said:


> Bless you, I'm sure you could get them cheaper although wouldn't want you to worry! We worm ours every three months and never use preventative flea treatment, makes me sound rubbish, lol, so I never think of it as a monthly expense.


No doubt I'll probably trail off on the flea treatment, these two are my first "Own" dogs so everything gets done by the book  No doubt I'll start to feel a little more comfortable with it all and start doing it myself when I feel a bit more confident. I was looking at Diatomaceous Earth for flea control. I know you can get the wormers from [email protected] and you take your dog down to get weighed, dunno if that would be cheaper ?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

catseyes said:


> I havent read all the posts.. but wish the benefits system was there to actually help people, see people claiming and getting their gardens done and having new windows and doors all from the council when we struggle to get by.


Thats nothing to do with having free stuff. Councils are landlords, and as such look after their properties accordingly, and in line with the law, as do private landlords.

As council tenants, there is also no choice in the matter. We were forced to have sodding solar panels, which cost us as the workmen broke loads of stuff and never finished the job. Not to mention the fact it was all done incorrectly, and our energy bills have actually increased 

There will always be those who fiddle the system. Just like MPs fiddle their expenses.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> No doubt I'll probably trail off on the flea treatment, these two are my first "Own" dogs so everything gets done by the book  No doubt I'll start to feel a little more comfortable with it all and start doing it myself when I feel a bit more confident. I was looking at Diatomaceous Earth for flea control. I know you can get the wormers from [email protected] and you take your dog down to get weighed, dunno if that would be cheaper ?


i use Vet UK Selling Pet Meds, Vet Products and Pet Products to Pet Owners. they do Drontal wormers and frontline. Don't use bob martin products or ones like that :frown2:

I worm once every 3 months.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> I suppose its telling the difference isnt it? I mean some people might have an anxiety problem and be crippled by panic attacks and be unable to cope with 'normal' life but manage to force themselves through it coz they dont have another option. Others might go the therapy option and just give up or accept a limited existence....or maybe they really do have 'that' bad a problem! TBH you cant tell someone else their anxiety problem isnt as bad as yours/better then yours without knowing them.
> Kinda like other phobias. Say you are afraid of spiders but have no-one to help you remove them?? How many hours/days do you stay in one room before you are forced to remove it yourself? Im betting most people would tackle the spider rather then die of thirst!


The difference is anxieties, yes everyone has them to a greater or lesser degree, but an anxiety disorder is all encompassing.

I've had worries and problems in the past and big ones at that, being attacked on a number of times, deaths and awful things happening, but I managed to get through those, when I got an anxiety disorder it was beyond the panic I got, even after being attacked and then suffering panic attacks.

It's hard to explain, but when it's real and is present it's so much more them powering through tbh. I have had it return the past three or so weeks in the night, I don't want to get into details, but it is far from 'the norm'.

I'm not saying this is necessarily how the OP is, I just don't think you can dismiss it as what everyone else gets as it really isn't the same.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> No doubt I'll probably trail off on the flea treatment, these two are my first "Own" dogs so everything gets done by the book  No doubt I'll start to feel a little more comfortable with it all and start doing it myself when I feel a bit more confident. I was looking at Diatomaceous Earth for flea control. I know you can get the wormers from [email protected] and you take your dog down to get weighed, dunno if that would be cheaper ?


No, I always stick with Drontal/Milbemax/Advocate for wormers but I buy them from Costco. The packs are about £15 and are enough for my two every three months. I wouldn't go with a cheaper brand.

For flea preventative I use plain old garlic cloves and touch wood mine have never had fleas.

But it's up to the individual to make the best choice; we always used the flea spot on sachets when Florence was a pup but I hated administering it; the smell is vile. Came off it when we changed vets and he told us it was a waste of money!


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Wow, this thread has really kicked off! Please keep it civil everyone I didn't mean to start a debate of any kind 

For me, my dogs are a hobby. Just like those who enjoy photography (which can be an expensive hobby also) or enjoy gardening etc. I enjoy training and handling dogs.



Lilylass said:


> *sskmick* but the difference is that you & your hubby have worked & haven't just sat around expecting to receive benefits and have multiple pets - if either of you have to give up work due to ill health, again, that's different from people just expecting to receive them
> 
> I'm afraid you / your hubby aren't alone
> 
> ...


That comes across very narrow minded, no two people are the same. No two people with arthritis are the same!? Just because one person can manage doesn't mean another should. I have struggled just to get through life as it is. You don't know the level of pain I suffer and I've 'put up with it' for 20 years.



Goldstar said:


> I apologise for missing that. I do understand how illnesses can be very debilitating but I guess I'm just confused as to how adding a new puppy to the situation would help matters (financially as well as physically). That's going from my own personal experience with not having enough money to eat ourselves some days when having to claim benefits.
> 
> I don't want to fall out with anyone over this so will shut my mouth now.


Don't worry about speaking your mind. I don't want people to fall out, just interesting hearing everyone's points of view! I don't expect anyone to agree 



LouiseH said:


> I'm not going to get into the benefit discussion. Its horses for courses. Unless you know all of the facts about the individual in question then its impossible to give a fully educated response. At face value, it would seem strange that someone on benefits can be able to afford 4 big dogs (Harvey costs me around £100 a month alone), but it would seem that not all expenses are covered by OP.
> 
> The reason that I'm actually posting is because OP mentioned suffering with anxiety. Around 15 years ago, I started suffering with anxiety and panic attacks that became so severe I almost had to leave work. I started seeing a hypnotherapist and she managed to turn me around. I wouldn't say that I will have them again but I manage myself better and do avoid putting myself in certain situations. If you haven't already, it might be worth trying a hypnotherapist or counselling. I know this won't help with your other issues but suffering with anxiety is horrible.


I'm working on my anxiety, I'm not shying away but as you know it is extremely difficult to overcome this. I've have had counselling and medication and therapy etc. since I was 16 years old but so far im still struggling. I've been in a bad way since I turned 12 so this is almost 10 years now.



catz4m8z said:


> wow, you sound just like me! Even down to the not answering the door.
> I used to get awful panic attacks as a teenager and couldnt go anywhere near a crowded high street NM a cinema or pub. However I needed a job so I forced myself interact with people. ok, I might have spent the first few years crying in toilets, drinking too much and self harming but I can now fake a pretty convincing 'normal' person at work and pay my own way! So I think its possible to get over (or push through) social anxiety.
> Arthritis is a different issue though and some days its not possible to work through that!
> Just curious though OP.....does someone else walk your dogs for you?? Its just Im not sure I would of gotten a very energetic bouncy breed like a Boxer if some days I couldnt walk them at all.


Yep, my sister walks with me every time I go to the woods for safety sake. She will also walk them when I can't and regularly comes on normal walks with me  I use aids and methods and voice commands to control my dogs. I spend almost every waking minute with my dogs so it's not like I need to rush a walk in here or there as my whole day is devoted to them.



diefenbaker said:


> The problem with starting a thread like this is that to a certain extent you will become a victim of the media. The benefits system was put in place to help those that genuinely need it. The media only highlights those that abuse it.
> 
> The big question in general terms is in what proportion are these two groups and is the weight shifting towards the latter.
> 
> OP my advice is leave this thread and take Rossi for a walk :thumbup1:


No it's fine, no one knows my situation in detail. I've been examined by professionals and well within my rights to claim for benefits I am entitled too. It's also an 'in the mean time' thing for me, I don't want to be on benefits long term!



SixStar said:


> If people with _most_ disabilities and illnesses wanted to work bad enough, they can (and do!). There is a gentleman in our local supermarket who has no legs but works at the checkouts in his wheelchair - if he can do this, why can't somebody with arthritis do the same? Several of the trolley boys have learning difficulties and there is a lady who delivers food to the tables in the garden centre cafe who is deaf. All these people could sit at home and claim benefits but do they? No! And bloody good on them!
> 
> OP - could you not do an office job or sit at a checkout? These are not manual physical jobs - and I see no reason as to why your 'good day' or 'bad day' patterns would affect your ability to do such work?
> 
> If benefits are allowing people to own four dogs, and purchase a pedigree puppy, something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.


I didn't buy Runa  I payed her deposit and mum payed her cost. This was because my mum really wanted her too and I didn't just get Runa on a whim. She has started walking raven so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Runa was supposed to be a family dog, not solely mine. My mum has since left. 
If I had been on my own without my mother, I very much doubt I would have Runa right now. That being said, she is well looked after and a credit to my family.

Yeah I've considered check out etc. and talked this through with the lady who was supposed to get me into employment agreed this wouldn't be sensible. I can't sit or stand for long periods of time (standing still is much more painful the walking). I can't lift heavy objects, even large bags of sugar or the 4 pints of milk. Also the repetitive motion of scanning will cause pain. I do want to work, and I will. But it's something I need to work towards as it's not as easy for someone like me in this climate to get employment.

This is all stuff I know I struggle with, not just presume. I've taken every interview and trial day (even mcdonalds  ) offered and certainly not been sitting on my but just expecting benefits! 

Someone in a wheelchair with no legs is completely different to someone arthritis? Not sure why your making these comparisons as they are not linked in anyway?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm not saying this is necessarily how the OP is, I just don't think you can dismiss it as what everyone else gets as it really isn't the same.


And yet you can say you are worse then anybody else without knowing anymore about them then we know about you??
hmmmmmm...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Sadly true anxiety problems are nothing like the 'normal' life worries or stresses.


See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?

When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.

Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

bearcub said:


> No, I always stick with Drontal/Milbemax/Advocate for wormers but I buy them from Costco. The packs are about £15 and are enough for my two every three months. I wouldn't go with a cheaper brand.
> 
> For flea preventative I use plain old garlic cloves and touch wood mine have never had fleas.
> 
> But it's up to the individual to make the best choice; we always used the flea spot on sachets when Florence was a pup but I hated administering it; the smell is vile. Came off it when we changed vets and he told us it was a waste of money!


I was going to introduce Blade to Garlic again, he ate garlic bread as a pup and was really poorly. The vet told me it was because of the Garlic so I may try him on little bits especially since someone told me you can use the garlic powder used for horses 

Also I get confused with whether Blade is classed as a medium or a large dog. I would class him as a medium but I don't know what Frontline's guidelines are?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> And yet you can say you are worse then anybody else without knowing anymore about them then we know about you??
> hmmmmmm...


No, I am saying that I know when I have 'normal' worries and when it's not 'the norm' actually.

I'm saying I know that when it's severe it's not really a matter of pushing through, no matter who you are.

I don't think I am the worst, I don't think I am that bad, as I said in the last post. But there is a difference.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> Surely having to rely on the benefit system can make anxieties worse. I remember when we were on benefits, I'd dread the postman coming in fear of what their next letter would say. Will they cancel our housing benefit this week (which they did a few times) or will they reduce the tiny amount of money we were getting.
> To me, that is far more stressful. I'd rather be independent.





Goldstar said:


> Something happened to me (not me specifically but I was directly affected) 7 years ago which caused me to become severely depressed. I could not claim anything for it, I was forced back into work within a month with the threat of becoming homeless so I had no choice.
> I'm not saying that was the right way to go about it, definitely not, it was awful but I do think it would help to focus on things you can do rather than on what you can't.


But not everyone is the same as you and will have very different issues.



diefenbaker said:


> You say he's feeling good about himself. Perhaps there are other benefits to going to work than just getting some money.


Just because one person reacts one way, doesn't mean that everyone with illness will be the same.

We are individuals.....one size does not fit all......that's what's actually wrong with the whole system


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I think a lot of people do work with various anxiety "problems" in fact a lot of people aren't even diagnosed with having anything medically wrong with them so don't receive any support whatsoever.

I do agree with the fact that everyone is different and have different issues etc but why add to that with the work of a new puppy. Surely that will not help the situation for anyone with severe arthritis


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> I think a lot of people do work with various anxiety "problems" in fact a lot of people aren't even diagnosed with having anything medically wrong with them so don't receive any support whatsoever.


Exactly. Most of us just don't harp on about it.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


This ^

These days everything has to be labelled, little room for any other explanation of the issues.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


Excellent post, would rep you again if I could!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> I think a lot of people do work with various anxiety "problems" in fact a lot of people aren't even diagnosed with having anything medically wrong with them so don't receive any support whatsoever.


The thing is though the OP has joint problems too. I think she was saying the combined problems are too much for her. No one really knows how she suffers in everyday life.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


I read an interesting blog post about this. It is a bit of a head scratcher - where do you draw the line between normal and disordered?
A friend of mine is a triathlon junkie, and he recently did his first full ironman. During the run, with 12 miles to go, he literally passed out, and hit the pavement with his face. When he came to, he refused the ambulance and finished, earning his first ironman with a bloodied face and a dangerously low BP. He had to get IV fluids at the finish line.

Normal behavior worth accolades (which he got) or disordered behavior that requires an intervention?

This was the blog post. Not sure how I feel/think about it all, but yes, this whole notion of what is "normal" and how to define it can get scary sometimes...

Nonconformity and Freethinking Now Considered Mental Illnesses | The Unbounded Spirit


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> The thing is though the OP has joint problems too. I think she was saying the combined problems are too much for her. No one really knows how she suffers in everyday life.


Exactly so why add a puppy to that situation and worse still a large, energetic pup.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


I do agree to a point, I think some things are quick to get a label or a disorder when it's just a bit beyond say 'the norm'.

I think every person could most likely be assessed as having a disorder to a greater or lesser degree, but that still doesn't mean people do not get hindered by things and end up suffering.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I see it like this. I've got Bipolar and it really limits my life. I'm in and out of hospital,etc. It's not controlled by meds

However a friend of mine with Bipolar is able to work. They've found a medication that keeps her stable.

What I'm trying to say is even someone with the same diagnosis can react in a different way.. so it's not about what normal ,etc. sorry not explained well.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> I was going to introduce Blade to Garlic again, he ate garlic bread as a pup and was really poorly. The vet told me it was because of the Garlic so I may try him on little bits especially since someone told me you can use the garlic powder used for horses
> 
> Also I get confused with whether Blade is classed as a medium or a large dog. I would class him as a medium but I don't know what Frontline's guidelines are?


Dont get frontline. It doesnt work properly anymore. Advocate is good if you want a combined flea and wormer or Advantage for fleas and drontal for worms. I get Apollos drontal from bestpets.com (I think I will have to double check) as its free delivery


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> I was going to introduce Blade to Garlic again, he ate garlic bread as a pup and was really poorly. The vet told me it was because of the Garlic so I may try him on little bits especially since someone told me you can use the garlic powder used for horses
> 
> Also I get confused with whether Blade is classed as a medium or a large dog. I would class him as a medium but I don't know what Frontline's guidelines are?


Dont get frontline. It doesnt work properly anymore. Advocate is good if you want a combined flea and wormer or Advantage for fleas and drontal for worms. I get Apollos drontal from bestpets.com (I think I will have to double check) as its free delivery

Double checked this is the site Bestpet Pharmacy - Pet Medicine, Pet Foods, Pet Meds, Vet Products Dog Food, Cat Food, Drontal, Fortekor, Metacam, Rimadyl, Vivitonin, Vetoryl and much more.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> This seems at odds with what a lot of other posters are putting. Even with all his problems he's waltzed into a job. This would suggest that employers are not massively discriminating against the disabled and in fact could end up in court if it could be proved that were the case. Apparently France has a HWD ( hiring with disability ) quota if it's not too far to commute.
> QUOTE]
> 
> My nephew, who I mentioned earlier, did manage to get a few jobs, but couldn't keep them - nothing to do with him. He got a job washing up in a hotel kitchen once. Oh, he was absolutely over the moon. But he fitted on the job and for health and safety reasons they had to let him go - he could have fallen onto something hot, or knocked something hot on someone else.
> ...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Just read through the rest of this thread and what strikes me is that the people who are saying things like "most people with disabilities can work", or "people with disabilties cannot walk dogs", or that "everyone has states of anxiety and just have to work through it", do not really have enough knowledge of the subject upon which to base their opinions. Yet no-one is listening to the people on here who are disabled and who are telling them otherwise.

Whilst there are certain kinds of disabilities where people can work - such as the example Sixstar gave of the man in the wheelchair - all disabilities are not as easy to accommodate. Take me, for example. I suffer from arthritis in just about all my joints and because I also have stage 3 kidney disease I cannot take NSAIDS. On some days I can stand but not sit, on other days I can sit but not stand. On some days I can climb mountains, on others I can't even get out of bed. Some days my fingers are supple enough to type, on other days I can't even hold a fork to feed myself. Some days I can walk around at dog shows, on others I sit down all day or hire a motor scooter.

NO employer would put up with that for long - if you are employed to do a day's work then your employer needs to know you will be turning up for your shift and are able to work once you get there.

I am lucky - I have the backing of the Occ Health Dept at the Trust where I work. Because my disability is slowly worsening, my line manager tried to get me dismissed under the capability policy at the beginning of this year. However, the Occ Health Dept, god bless 'em, pointed out to her that if I could no longer do my job because of my worsening disability (I have worked there since 1989) then it was up to her to ensure that arrangements were put in place to enable me to continue to do my job. But as I said, I am lucky. How many other organisations, or small employers, would alter work space and methods of working to fit in with someone's disability? The law says it has to be altered "where reasonably practicable" - and that leaves a whole lot to the interpretation. And for a small amployer it might not be reasonably practicable to have to start altering anything around to accommodate a disabled employee.

And yes, it is illegal to discriminate against someone who is disabled in an emplyment interview, but these days there are many applicants for every job advertised, many applicants with identical qualifications and experience. Given a choice between an able-bodied or a disabled prospective employee (where everything else such a qualifications and experience was equal) how many employers will choose the disabled employee knowing they will have to make alterations to work space and work methods if they do? I am under no illusions about my ability to find another job if I were to be made redundant, even though I would be willing to do any job that was offered. 

And just out of interest - how many people who think dogs are a luxury, or that money from taxes should not go to pay benefits so that people can keep dogs, are happy to blithely hold their hand out for their child benefit every week? If you think our taxes shouldn't go in benefits to people who want to keep dogs, how do you justify our taxes going in benefits to people who want to have kids? No difference imo.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

> Originally Posted by sezeelson View Post
> 
> For me, my dogs are a hobby. Just like those who enjoy photography (which can be an expensive hobby also) or enjoy gardening etc. I enjoy training and handling dogs.


I must admit I took a short intake of breath to hear dogs been described as an hobby. My dogs aren't an hobby they are living creatures.. probably just me


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I read an interesting blog post about this. It is a bit of a head scratcher - where do you draw the line between normal and disordered?
> A friend of mine is a triathlon junkie, and he recently did his first full ironman. During the run, with 12 miles to go, he literally passed out, and hit the pavement with his face. When he came to, he refused the ambulance and finished, earning his first ironman with a bloodied face and a dangerously low BP. He had to get IV fluids at the finish line.
> 
> Normal behavior worth accolades (which he got) or disordered behavior that requires an intervention?
> ...


Good article. There seems to be an obsession with labeling everything. If most of us saw a psychiatrist who then ran though the symptoms of many of these modern day disorders, I bet the majority of us would identify with a good many of them. I can't help but think that some people use it as a crutch to say "I can't do this" or "I can't do that".


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


I do see what you mean; I know I have a mental illness, but it stops there, I don't want to continually put my weird behaviour down to it because I'll just give up and let it take me over. However it's important to note that there are some conditions that need to be labelled, learning difficulties for one.

I have dyspraxia. It's not by any stretch of the imagination a serious condition, and doesn't cause me any problems in my adult life, however when I was at school it impacted on my ability to concentrate, learning to write and truth be told, I was seen as a bit of a clown as I was always breaking things, tripping over things and couldn't get to grips with PE at all.

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 14, by then I had developed my own way of coping with it. It would have been better if I had been diagnosed at an earlier age as primary school turned into a bit of a nightmare for me due to all of these coordination problems. If someone had understood I would have been awarded the same chances as everyone else in my class.

There is specific research, support and extra tuition available to children who need an extra helping hand for whatever condition they have. Identifying these children early is essential to giving them the best start in education.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> I think a lot of people do work with various anxiety "problems" in fact a lot of people aren't even diagnosed with having anything medically wrong with them so don't receive any support whatsoever.
> 
> I do agree with the fact that everyone is different and have different issues etc but why add to that with the work of a new puppy. Surely that will not help the situation for anyone with severe arthritis


How would you know?

Just to add, my MH is genuine. I've been hospitalised and forced help as I've been a risk to myself and others, I've even been tranquillized before after having a manic episode for over 72 hours of which I didn't sleep, eat or drink. It's not just a little bit of fear every know and then and things I'm not willing to mention have contributed to my MH. I'm not willing to talk about my daily issues as I feel there is far to much stigma shown on here!

This is NOT why I haven't found work. I focus solely on my physical ability, my MH is just an awkward side of me I have to lug around and put up with.

Now arthritis is a bit a of a bitch in that if you don't move, you lose the ability to move your joints and quickly suffer muscle loss. You move to much and that's it, bedridden and drugged up to the eyeballs for the rest of day.

Why because I have arthritis can I not manage a puppy? A pup that has been very easy I must add. Maybe I've learned to do things a different way? Maybe I receive help? Maybe... Just maybe the pup has done me good and given me new inspiration and has actually helped with my progression to become a dog trainer/behaviourist.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

There are some pretty offensive assumptions and generalisations being chucked around in this thread. Not everyone is the same and to judge someone else's situation by your own experience doesn't work. I'd hazard a guess that if you're able to "just get on with it", you probably don't have a severe mental health problem.
No experience of physical disability so I won't comment there, but I'm quite shocked some people see real anxiety as "an excuse" to not work, it seems even if they're getting help for it.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I do agree to a point, I think some things are quick to get a label or a disorder when it's just a bit beyond say 'the norm'.
> 
> I think every person could most likely be assessed as having a disorder to a greater or lesser degree, but that still doesn't mean people do not get hindered by things and end up suffering.


Yes! This has been proven 

Regardless of who you are, you would be labelled with having a mental disorder according to the big book of mental disorders that was produced many, many years ago when psychologist were trying to be seen as genuine doctors.

Very interesting documentary, can't for the life of me remember what it was called!


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> I must admit I took a short intake of breath to hear dogs been described as an hobby. My dogs aren't an hobby they are living creatures.. probably just me


Huh?

I didn't owning dogs? I mean training them and working them? I don't understand why that would be bad?


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## ciarasmum (Aug 21, 2013)

I have read some of the pages but just wanted to give my input.

Having not had arthritis myself I can't comment on the pain that must come with having it.

I am currently on JSA and absolutely miserable. I have worked since I was in college (I'm 26 now), I used to go straight from college to work until 9pm at night 5 days a week, then between college and uni I worked in a bar in the evenings.

After uni I have worked until this May when the place I was working for no longer received the same funding so my job had to go. I have a masters degree in statistics with distinction but after a few weeks of being out of work gave up any thought of a job like that and am literally applying for anything and everything. I apply for min wage jobs as it will be a few hundred more than what I get now, but I just don't hear anything back. My adviser at the job centre is stumped. She reads my applications and CV and knows that I am putting my best effort into it but can't seem to get anything  I had an interview last Friday, heard nothing so I got in touch with them, and they told me that the position was on hold.

Ciara is a family pet even though I do all the walking/training etc so I'm lucky in the respect that I don't have to pay for her. When I was working I used to buy all her food. My mum pays for her insurance but I paid for any excess when we claimed for xrays and other things associated with her bad legs. I feel heartbroken that I can't contribute this way anymore. 

My only outgoings are my car and my phone bill. My car seems to be falling apart with a number of odd noises at the minute but just can't afford to fix it. No idea why I'm rambling, but just feel very sad with it all. I'd hate for people to think I was just dossing at home. When I'm not walking Ciara, I am applying for jobs. Fingers crossed something comes up soon!


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the responses that have been posted on this thread.

Sadly there appear to be a great deal of PFers who would benefit from having a read of this site. It may help them develop a bit of understanding and compassion.

If this is the attitude of some of the most outspoken people here on PF then I'm not entirely sure it's somewhere I want to be anymore. It makes me uncomfortable to know just how judged I would be if I were to be open about any of the issues I have.

I will miss those of you who are not bigoted but PF has suddenly become a rather unpleasant place for me to be.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

tiatortilla said:


> . I'd hazard a guess that if you're able to "just get on with it", you probably don't have a severe mental health problem.
> No experience of physical disability so I won't comment there, but I'm quite shocked some people see real anxiety as "an excuse" to not work, it seems even if they're getting help for it.


Thats the point you would be 'hazarding a guess'! I think with some things its obvious you cant work (for example if you are hallucinating or suffering severe paranoia for example). Anxiety disorders are alot more subjective I think.
As for physical disability my only experience is alot of relatives with a congenital problem that means corrective surgeries, in fact my father was told his only treatment available would be a double amputation! No experience with benefits though coz they all worked for a living!!LOL:thumbup1:
Im still unsure why the OP got a Boxer though? Surely you would get a dog breed suitable for your off days not one that might be a struggle if you are ill?


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?


My nephew has been diagnosed with Aspergers and I must say since his diagnosis his behavior is TONS worse. He misbehaves and when you tell him he's misbehaving he says things like " No I'm not I'm special I've been told so!" 

I think a lot of these disorders are used to excuse badly behaved children, don't get me wrong I know a large handful of people with aspergers / autism etc and I KNOW it is genuine , but I think it's tossed around to willy nilly.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> Now arthritis is a bit a of a bitch in that if you don't move, you lose the ability to move your joints and quickly suffer muscle loss. You move to much and that's it, bedridden and drugged up to the eyeballs for the rest of day.


Couldn't agree more - and I find having a dog hugely beneficial as it makes me walk even on days when its extremely painful to do so & I really rather wouldn't - but I couldn't manage several dogs



sezeelson said:


> Why because I have arthritis can I not manage a puppy? A pup that has been very easy I must add. Maybe I've learned to do things a different way? Maybe I receive help? Maybe... Just maybe the pup has done me good and given me new inspiration and has actually helped with my progression to become a dog trainer/behaviourist.


I have severe arthritis (and a whole host of other medical issues) and know I couldn't manage a puppy!

(and it's one of the reasons my dogs have all been adults when I've got them)

But I manage to work .....


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Thats the point you would be 'hazarding a guess'! I think with some things its obvious you cant work (for example if you are hallucinating or suffering severe paranoia for example). Anxiety disorders are alot more subjective I think.


Well yeah of course it's subjective but it isn't up to random members of the public or of this forum to decide (thank God!). If Sezeelson's GP/psychiatrist has found her unable to work, then it should be accepted that they are correct.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Can I ask - what are you going to do when you become a dog trainer and have a bad day? Cancel a whole day worth of classes and one on one sessions? I think it is great that you are working towards something you'd love to do but I don't see how you think you can do that as a full time position but couldn't be a park warden or a dinner lady for instance?

If my trainer cancelled every few weeks, I'd go somewhere else and I am sure most other people would too so I don't understand how you believe you will be able to do that but won't be able to do numerous other positions?

I am not having a go, I just don't understand that at all. Say you are running a class and 2 dogs start fighting, what are you going to do? If you don't have the strength to get them apart and possibly one of the dogs dies, that is your business completely gone.

To the outside world, it sounds as if you could ignore the pain (I am not denying that you are in pain at all) for a job you loved, but not just for a job. Which I know isn't a direct line to choosing not to work, but it is in a roundabout way.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

labradrk said:


> Good article. There seems to be an obsession with labeling everything. If most of us saw a psychiatrist who then ran though the symptoms of many of these modern day disorders, I bet the majority of us would identify with a good many of them. I can't help but think that some people use it as a crutch to say "I can't do this" or "I can't do that".


I find that offensive. Ive never labelled myself i just say I have anxiety about certain situations and things and everyone that knows me can see when im becoming anxious as I become very fidgity. I dont actually tell people I meet that I suffer from anxiety at least not until I know them as it isnt something I like to advertise about myself normally. I never say 'I cant do this and that' to people but say 'I would find it incredibly hard to cope in certain situations'.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

There was a thread a while back about how often do you walk your dogs. The people that said not every day were not taken to very nicely.

This just keeps referring back to my original question. If someone's PHYSICAL illness is so bad you cannot work, how do they exercise their multiple dogs on bad days because there must be a lot of bad days to mean you can't work at all because of that illness. 
In these cases is it OK for the dogs to go without exercise frequently then but not OK for a dog to go without exercise when you're absolutely knackered after doing a 12 hr shift?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

tiatortilla said:


> Well yeah of course it's subjective but it isn't up to random members of the public or of this forum to decide (thank God!). If Sezeelson's GP/psychiatrist has found her unable to work, then it should be accepted that they are correct.


TBH Im less then convinced with anything a GP has to say! Ive known them make some shockingly bad diagnosis for some people whilst treating others for made up ailments.
aaaand I still want to know why she bought such a high energy puppy rather then one more suited for her lifestyle!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> My nephew has been diagnosed with Aspergers and I must say since his diagnosis his behavior is TONS worse. He misbehaves and when you tell him he's misbehaving he says things like " No I'm not I'm special I've been told so!"


A bit like my brother who uses his 'problems' as an excuse for everything. He got kicked out of University, has never worked a day in his life, has never contributed a penny to the household nor lifted a finger around the house. My mum bless her still does all his washing, tidies his room and cooks all his meals without a word of thanks. When we went on holiday once, he was left at home and we came back to various cat craps that had been left on the floor (where he had forgot to let them out), rotting food and beer cans everywhere and an entire room full of rotting cat food cans, some of which had maggots crawling in. My parents bizarrely won't hear a bad word against him because of his 'problems', whereas I won't go into what me and my other siblings think of his 'problems'.....


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

To be totally honest if I had the pain in my legs I have now when I got the girls I wouldn't have got them.

It is a struggle to move sometimes. I do make myself walk them through the pain, but what if I get to a point I can't?

So I wouldn't have got them if I had the lipodema diagnosis then


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Thats the point you would be 'hazarding a guess'! I think with some things its obvious you cant work (for example if you are hallucinating or suffering severe paranoia for example). Anxiety disorders are alot more subjective I think.


But anxiety disorders can manifest in physical ways too so it can be very extreme at it's worst.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> Couldn't agree more - and I find having a dog hugely beneficial as it makes me walk even on days when its extremely painful to do so & I really rather wouldn't - but I couldn't manage several dogs
> 
> I have severe arthritis (and a whole host of other medical issues) and know I couldn't manage a puppy!
> 
> ...


That's your personal experience.

Like I've said already (if you had read my posts) I already tried really hard to get work before I even got Rossi. I didn't just decide I'd get a dog and live of benefits, it's certainly wasn't choice I've taken lightly.

I too have other medical issues but how does this make us the same in anyway? What medication do you take for it? And what job are you in?

What one can do is completely different to another, I've had help getting into work and even they couldn't find anything for me. What am I supposed to do if no one will employ me?

Also, how is two dogs any different to one if they walk nicely on lead and I have verbal control over my dogs? Rossi recently had issues with recall but since using the whistle and putting the time in he is reliable again. Again, as I have said before (I wish I didn't have to repeat myself) not all the dogs pictured are mine and the lab is 11 years old.

One dog can be to much if it isn't trained? I'm confused by this point?


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the responses that have been posted on this thread.
> 
> Sadly there appear to be a great deal of PFers who would benefit from having a read of this site. It may help them develop a bit of understanding and compassion.
> 
> ...


No one will judge you for what you suffer from on here. I'm sure of that. But being judged for what you do about it is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Awareness of Mental Illness is both good and bad, I think. The more society accepts and understands the conditions that statistically 1 in 4 adults suffer from, the more every single sufferer will be scrutinised.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

sezeelson said:


> One dog can be to much if it isn't trained? I'm confused by this point?


but what on earth made you pick such a high energy breed that would need a decent amount of exercise every day if you knew you wouldnt be up to it??
(thats whats confuddled me!).


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> But anxiety disorders can manifest in physical ways too so it can be very extreme at it's worst.


Which is why a lot of people can't see how getting an energetic breed puppy would possibly help the situation.

That is the ONLY thing that really confuses me.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Problem is with posting something like this you are going to touch a nerve, whether claiming benefits legitimately or not. 

I wish I could afford 4 dogs, I'd fill my house with them if I could. We would adore to rescue a husky after I've spent hours trawling through the rescue pages but we simply can't afford it. 

Obviously if we came upon hard times financially I wouldn't get rid of the dogs, there would be a possibility Taz would have to go back to my MIL or something similar, but I think what is rubbing people the wrong way is collecting dogs while claiming benefits. If we suddenly lost our jobs I wouldn't be going out and buying another dog that is for sure.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> TBH Im less then convinced with anything a GP has to say! Ive known them make some shockingly bad diagnosis for some people whilst treating others for made up ailments.
> aaaand I still want to know why she bought such a high energy puppy rather then one more suited for her lifestyle!


It wasn't a GP, it was a medical professional 

She isn't a high energy puppy, she is very chilled out. As was her mother and I my childhood boxer so either I've seen some broken boxers or they are not as high energy as stated.

I've done my research and met more boxers. As (again) I've already said, I didn't buy her on a whim and was planned for months.

How dare anyone depict what breed I should and shouldn't have!? My dogs are looked after and cared for. They are walked and exercise much more then a lot of other dogs out there!?

My dogs are for life, I'm not stupid! Are you all forgetting that dogs ARE GIVEN TO DISABLED PEOPLE!? My dogs are well trained and brought up in a manor that is needed for me. I highly doubt a half dead dog is going to support me and work for me all day every day!

Some very selfish judgements being made!?


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> but what on earth made you pick such a high energy breed that would need a decent amount of exercise every day if you knew you wouldnt be up to it??
> (thats whats confuddled me!).


Where did you get you that from? 

Where did I say "I don't/can't walk my dogs on a daily basis"?

I have even said that I HAVE to walk every single day I I'll stiffen up causing much more pain and discomfort.

Why are people making comments but won't even take the time to read what I've already written? If you had, you would also realise that my sister regularly walks with me...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Apollo2012 said:


> I find that offensive. Ive never labelled myself i just say I have anxiety about certain situations and things and everyone that knows me can see when im becoming anxious as I become very fidgity. I dont actually tell people I meet that I suffer from anxiety at least not until I know them as it isnt something I like to advertise about myself normally. I never say 'I cant do this and that' to people but* say 'I would find it incredibly hard to cope in certain situations'.*


And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.

You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I believe the problem lies with the fact that if someone suffers from a condition which is unpredictable, finding a job where it was possible to be flexible without letting colleagues or customers down is quite difficult. If you don't know from one day to the next what your mobility/pain is going to be it's difficult to stick to a rigid schedule.

If the dogs need exercising and you are having a bad day you can miss the odd day, or wait until medication has kicked in or mobility has improved through movement during the day - enabling you to take them out, if only briefly.

I don't believe any dog will suffer greatly from the odd missed walk - whatever the reason. 

Some people seem to be working on the premise that anyone who does not work because of a medical condition is incapable of doing ANY thing and must, therefore, be making it up or exaggerating their condition if they don't work.

A friend with a very painful and debilitating condition was asked "if she was so bad, how come she was able to pick up her heavy toddler from the floor and put him into a buggy". Her reply was that "she gritted her teeth through the pain because she did not have a full time nanny to hand and could not just leave her child on the floor all day - but that she would suffer greatly for it and be popping painkillers to get through the day. 

It's not black and white.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

sezeelson said:


> Where did you get you that from?
> 
> Where did I say "I don't/can't walk my dogs on a daily basis"?
> 
> ...


so you can reliably walk every single day and in fact it helps you to do so?
(can you see why you are confusing people??)


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Wasn't trying to have a dig asking why you felt able to work as a trainer or behaviourist but not in a different job, just genuinely do not understand why that is possible but other jobs not. If you cancel appointments or classes a lot because of heath issues you're not likely to find yourself keeping clients. You can't guarantee which days are going to be bad days in advance and work around it. You're either going to have to cancel or push through surely? I have no issue with you using the time you have to do courses to help you get employment in future. Nor with anyone having a pet while on benefits. It's more confusion over how on earth it's affordable. And no, I'm not asking you to run me through your finances lol.

The finding a job issue I really do understand. My own health issues make it extremely difficult, they're not going to take me on when they can take someone on who's not got any health issues. 

And it's not just the high profile, publicised stories of people on benefits living the life of riley that annoy people. Off the top of my head I can think of 8 people I know personally who are on them and are constantly out boozing, have all the latest gadgets and always seem to have more money than me and my hubby have despite him earning a half decent wage.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> so you can reliably walk every single day and in fact it helps you to do so?
> (can you see why you are confusing people??)


No i can't!?

How on earth is walking for one hour the same as working full or part time!?

As I've already said, if I do to much it mucks me right up and I end up bedridden... I've done part time voluntary work which I had to quit do to being unable to work for the 4 full hours and having to work to a fixed schedule.

I HAVE tried, and sadly failed which is a lot more then I can say for some.


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## LynnM (Feb 21, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Kinda like other phobias. Say you are afraid of spiders but have no-one to help you remove them?? How many hours/days do you stay in one room before you are forced to remove it yourself? Im betting most people would tackle the spider rather then die of thirst!


No, my daughter would stand on the bed or settee and scream and then probably die of thirst if there was nobody there to get rid of it.

Luckily for her, her house sharing friend comes to the rescue with the hoover and sucks the poor spider up the nozzle and then phones her mum to come and empty the hoover :laugh:


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

OP, I am not sure why you are getting a hard time from some on here but I suppose it was to be expected, given that some do love to judge 

I can see why your dogs help you to keep motivated and deal with your health issues.

I wouldn't listen to other people, if I were you. You did ask for opinions though, so suppose you have to take it on the chin


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## Marycat (Jul 29, 2013)

labradrk said:


> And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.
> 
> You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


I agree with this. I was diagnosed with extreme anxiety and depression and I have had 1 incidence of absence from work in 5 years (not related to anxiety) I was offered a sick note but I thought whats the point I will still have the same issues at home and in fact it will probably be worse because I am labelling myself as 'sick'and not getting out and about meeting people. I know its not the same for everyone but I do think that sometimes you have to man up and get on with it!! Its a good job we didn't have so many people on the sick during the war, we would have been buggered..As I say I know there are many genuine people but do I think that everyone who is on disability can't work..nope sorry don't believe it!!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> so you can reliably walk every single day and in fact it helps you to do so?
> (can you see why you are confusing people??)


I am no expert but I believe that some people with arthritis wake up VERY stiff and painful and need to do exercises and stretches and take medication in order to get going in the morning. Once they are on the go, the joints begin to ease/relax a little and movement becomes easier/less painful - assisted by the pain medication and increased flexibility.

Piano scale exercises are apparently extremely helpful in loosening up arthritic fingers - but I expect it is extremely painful to start too.

Just because someone with arthritis is able to move/walk does not mean it is easy/painless.

BUT sitting in a chair all day would almost definitely not help the condition - either physically or mentally.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Wasn't trying to have a dig asking why you felt able to work as a trainer or behaviourist but not in a different job, just genuinely do not understand why that is possible but other jobs not. If you cancel appointments or classes a lot because of heath issues you're not likely to find yourself keeping clients. You can't guarantee which days are going to be bad days in advance and work around it. You're either going to have to cancel or push through surely? I have no issue with you using the time you have to do courses to help you get employment in future. Nor with anyone having a pet while on benefits. It's more confusion over how on earth it's affordable. And no, I'm not asking you to run me through your finances lol.
> 
> The finding a job issue I really do understand. My own health issues make it extremely difficult, they're not going to take me on when they can take someone on who's not got any health issues.
> 
> And it's not just the high profile, publicised stories of people on benefits living the life of riley that annoy people. Off the top of my head I can think of 8 people I know personally who are on them and are constantly out boozing, have all the latest gadgets and always seem to have more money than me and my hubby have despite him earning a half decent wage.


I'm not suggesting dog behaviour is the only job I can do. I've chosen to take this path as I enjoy so much 

My point about this is being able to work for myself so I can work within in my limits and the work the hours and days that I physically can. If dog behaviour falls through then I will have to come up with something else and I will as I'm genuinely enthusiastic about working.

I'm not going through my finances as there isn't anything to go through! Everything that comes in goes back out again! Simple 

I know what you mean about people wasting benefit money on booze, **** and gambling etc. but I'm not one of those people yet I still get the same stigma and I'm apparently a faker? Not on tbh


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## Marycat (Jul 29, 2013)

sezeelson said:


> No i can't!?
> 
> How on earth is walking for one hour the same as working full or part time!?
> 
> ...


 Good for you for trying.. I do understand that your dogs are your world..I also get that it would be difficult for you to work with arthritis. I am wary of some people on here who claim to be sick when they post about all the fun things they have been up to and you can't help but think 'really, and you are ill??' It sounds like you have tried your best and nobody can ask for more than that..


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sezeelson said:


> Yeah I've considered check out etc. and talked this through with the lady who was supposed to get me into employment agreed this wouldn't be sensible. I can't sit or stand for long periods of time (standing still is much more painful the walking). I can't lift heavy objects, even large bags of sugar or the 4 pints of milk. Also the repetitive motion of scanning will cause pain. I do want to work, and I will. But it's something I need to work towards as it's not as easy for someone like me in this climate to get employment.
> 
> This is all stuff I know I struggle with, not just presume. I've taken every interview and trial day (even mcdonalds  ) offered and certainly not been sitting on my but just expecting benefits!
> 
> Someone in a wheelchair with no legs is completely different to someone arthritis? Not sure why your making these comparisons as they are not linked in anyway?


I was making the comparison as a way of demonstrating that they are are people with extremely severe physical disabilities - who could quite easily claim benefits but choose not to - they choose to work instead.

Like I say, there are jobs for the vast majority of disabled people - whether they choose to take them (and look hard for them - like everyone else seeking employment has to!) is an entirely different matter


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> I think its coz the government doesnt have a secret forest of money trees to provide for benefits so it has to come from other peoples taxes!
> *is now thinking about owning a garden full of money trees*


Actually England is capable of producing its own money ie the government can print extra money. Whenever it wants to... As though it grew on a tree. For some odd reason when our Prime Minister wants to cut spending, and privatise everything in sight, he seems to forget to mention to people that this is another option. The economic implications of printing extra money become a little complicated, and it's not something to be done without thought, but nevertheless... The government is perfectly capable of printing more money.



SixStar said:


> OP - could you not do an office job or sit at a checkout? These are not manual physical jobs - and I see no reason as to why your 'good day' or 'bad day' patterns would affect your ability to do such work?


I think you might be underestimating how pain can affect someone (and how exhausting/draining/all consuming living with serve pain can be). To a fit healthy person an office job would look physically very undemanding, however, to sit at a desk when you are in pain (and I am assuming great pain given the amount of pain killers the OP takes, and the fact that she uses a mobility scooter at times), is a whole different thing. Pain to that degree is all consuming.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> I am no expert but I believe that some people with arthritis wake up VERY stiff and painful and need to do exercises and stretches and take medication in order to get going in the morning. Once they are on the go, the joints begin to ease/relax a little and movement becomes easier/less painful - assisted by the pain medication and increased flexibility.
> 
> Piano scale exercises are apparently extremely helpful in loosening up arthritic fingers - but I expect it is extremely painful to start too.
> 
> ...


Exactly how it is.

It take anything from 1 to 4 hours to become mobile. My sister makes me my breakfast and tea in the morning and I will take my painkillers before I even get out of bed.

Walking is sometimes excruciating but I know if I don't do it it's only going to get worse and the thought of being in the position I was in a few years ago scares the hell out of me as I was totally dependant on the care of others 

Good explanation lurcherlad 

On a side note, arthritis also effects energy levels and I have to sleep at least once a day usually in the afternoon.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

labradrk said:


> And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.
> 
> You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


Just to let you know I haven't been 'formally diagnosed, although it's been clear at times, I didn't need nor really want a diagnosis, so haven't been to see anyone in particular about it, just a GP when needed. At the moment, I suppose you could call me lucky as it seems to be mainly affecting me at night, so I can function somewhat normally in the day! 

I'm not saying you cannot know what anxiety is, but it's one persons bodily response to it that varies and/or completely shuts down and doesn't function and it's not the persons fault either.

Also, taking dogs to a field so they can run is not the same as walking every day, she may walk five minutes and let them off and not out rambling hours each day.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wow that took a lot of reading! We got astro whilst I was working but I still suffered from mental health problems. I'm now on ESA and DLA but my oh pays most of the bills and astro. Some of the comments about mental health are a bit scary. Everyone is different, and no you don't have to be labelled to experience the pain. I wouldn't get another dog cause sometimes I struggle. I know I'm preg but I am getting a lot of help from everyone. 

I wouldn't have bought another dog if you have the issues you say, but I believe it's a family dog so thats different.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

BeauNoir said:


> Can I ask - what are you going to do when you become a dog trainer and have a bad day? Cancel a whole day worth of classes and one on one sessions? I think it is great that you are working towards something you'd love to do but I don't see how you think you can do that as a full time position but couldn't be a park warden or a dinner lady for instance?
> 
> If my trainer cancelled every few weeks, I'd go somewhere else and I am sure most other people would too so I don't understand how you believe you will be able to do that but won't be able to do numerous other positions?
> 
> ...


sezeelson - I really would love to have an answer to my question 3 pages ago. I think it is fair that people are questioning why you can't do so many different jobs but you seem certain that you will be able to do dog training when surely that will cause the same issues that you are listing as reasons why you can't do all other jobs.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

BeauNoir said:


> Can I ask - what are you going to do when you become a dog trainer and have a bad day? Cancel a whole day worth of classes and one on one sessions? I think it is great that you are working towards something you'd love to do but I don't see how you think you can do that as a full time position but couldn't be a park warden or a dinner lady for instance?
> 
> If my trainer cancelled every few weeks, I'd go somewhere else and I am sure most other people would too so I don't understand how you believe you will be able to do that but won't be able to do numerous other positions?
> 
> ...


So the OP is da*med if she does, and da*med if she doesn't? The OP is trying to create a situation where she can work around her limitations, surely that should be admired and encouraged? If when it comes to it she is not well enough, then at that point she will have to reconsider, but in the meantime it sounds to me that she is trying to build a life for herself regardless of living with an unpredictable medical condition (one which means she has missed out on an awful lot. Not having to work might sound like fun to some people, but for those who are able to because of being ill, most (if not all) would give anything to be fit and well and not in pain and able to live 'normal' lives. The OP was unable to attend school - think of how emotionally painful that must have been to watch all the kids in her town have a social life that she was unable to participate in? Seriously people, who thinks being in constant pain, and to miss out on being part of normal society, is something someone would choose if they could??).


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

DirtyGertie said:


> Unless things have changed in the last five years that's not entirely accurate.
> 
> My husband was diagnosed with a rare incurable cancer in 2008 with a prognosis of a maximum of 4.5 years left. We had our own business, a small restaurant, which he obviously couldn't run continuously whilst receiving chemo. I had just turned 60 and receiving my state pension so we sold the business and the social worker at the hospital sorted out his forms and he received incapacity benefit. Further on down the line he was able to claim DLA at the lower level and IIRC he received this for a couple of years. Once he had been advised it was officially terminal (when you're told you're not expected to last more than six months and of course the hospital has to confirm this) he was put on the higher rate of DLA and received this until he died.
> 
> Some people can and do continue to work whilst receiving chemo, it depends on their illness and their treatment, but certain benefits can be available to cancer patients if they can't work. I believe it's only classed as terminal once you're not expected to live beyond six months, I think it's classed as treatable or incurable prior to that.


Yes things have changed massively in the last 5 years - DLA no longer exists for anyone of working age for starters, people with incurable (yes I did put the wrong terminology, but I can't see how having 9 months is less terminal than 6 months) cancer and an expected lifespan of more than 6 months are expected to complete work programmes to receive benefits. Incapacity benefit no longer exists and if you want ESA and are declared fit to work then off to poundland you go to work for your benefits even if you're expected to die within the year.



labradrk said:


> See for me, there is a huge grey area with all these anxiety disorders, social anxiety disorders, attention disorders, severe phobias resulting in anxiety etc etc. This is probably going to make me unpopular, but it seems as though we have to put a label on everything. Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying these things don't exist, but where does the "syndrome" or "disorder" start and the person begin?
> 
> When I was a child, my doctor tried to push my parents towards a specialist to investigate the possibility of Aspergers. They refused. What would be the point and what would it change? nothing - I would still be me, only I would be carrying a label.
> 
> *Are kids not aloud to have shy, hyper, highly strung, socially awkward or even 'strange' personalities without getting a 'disorder' chucked at them?*


That is not what Asperger's is.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

labradrk said:


> And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.
> 
> You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


I didn't mean that in anything that I said. My point is that suffering anxiety short term due to a marriage break up or similar is very different to suffering anxiety long term.

I much prefer to suffer in silence and wish I'd never brought MH up now. No one has a choice but plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice, there is no quick fix or pill to take?

Whether it is sever or not you still have no choice to put up with due to the masses of stigma surrounding MH.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

This makes for interesting reading.

I have to agree that dogs are luxuries- any pets are- they are NOT a right. I would absolutely love to have a dog. Really. Why don't I have one?

a) I'm not able to as I'm still living with my Mum;

b) Although I am in a position, at the moment, for one financially and physically, I cannot guarantee that I will be this time next year.

I understand that hard times can arise at any point and life is unpredictable but I will wait til I'm fairly secure and can see where my future is heading before taking on such a huge responsibility. (I work at the moment and get a good salary but I am looking into doing a Masters and PhD so my hours will inevitably be reduced by then and therefore, my wage.)

If I was on benefits, I would *not* be adding more pets to the family. It would not be feasible and would be unfair to my animals.

I think you're doing a good thing by studying and setting yourself goals but I have to agree with others that getting a new pup when you're on benefits- which, let's not beat around the bush, are a pittance- was perhaps not the best move...


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> Wow that took a lot of reading! We got astro whilst I was working but I still suffered from mental health problems. I'm now on ESA and DLA but my oh pays most of the bills and astro. Some of the comments about mental health are a bit scary. Everyone is different, and no you don't have to be labelled to experience the pain. I wouldn't get another dog cause sometimes I struggle. I know I'm preg but I am getting a lot of help from everyone.
> 
> I wouldn't have bought another dog if you have the issues you say, but I believe it's a family dog so thats different.


The issues I mentioned haven't happened since taking on Runa. I took a serious look at myself before getting her as I would be an unfit owner if I was as I was in the past.

I've progressed a lot since then, I still have a while to go but I'm focused and determined not to let it rule my life anymore!


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> I didn't mean that in anything that I said. My point is that suffering anxiety short term due to a marriage break up or similar is very different to suffering anxiety long term.
> 
> I much prefer to suffer in silence and wish I'd never brought MH up now. No one has a choice but plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice, there is no quick fix or pill to take?
> 
> Whether it is sever or not you still have no choice to put up with due to the masses of stigma surrounding MH.


There is huge stigma surrounding MH and it's such a terrible shame 

I also suffer from anxiety, both generalised and social- some days it's almost non-existent and other days, I cannot physically leave the house. As there are such huge waiting lists for therapies I have had to try and battle through it. I force myself to go out and interact with people- even if I feel like rubbish- and I have to say, it has worked.

I now work with Autistic students and help *them* with anxiety management alongside study skills. I sit in their lectures and at times, I feel myself going into major panic mode but I have to sit it out and try not to focus on how poorly I feel. It's hard but it's my professional duty.

Anxiety is an awful condition to live with but it is possible to pick up the pieces and work over time. I'm not remarkable in any way, just determined to better my life, and ultimately, my animals' lives...


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Glad things aren't as bad  

I on the other hand have been in hospital whilst having astro. Just cause my illness might be considered more serious doesn't make any difference to me . My mate has anxiety issues and I regard them as highly as my schizophrenia.

I wish you all the best.


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## Marycat (Jul 29, 2013)

JordanRose said:


> This makes for interesting reading.
> 
> I have to agree that dogs are luxuries- any pets are- they are NOT a right. I would absolutely love to have a dog. Really. Why don't I have one?
> 
> ...


 I would love to have a dog..but I can't because we both work full time.. it's ironic really but it is better for a dog if their owner is NOT working or is working part time. I do worry about the vet bills for people on benefits though..My mum is currently paying £56 a wk for heart tablets for her King Charles..That's a lot of money in anyone's book..


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

labradrk said:


> And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.
> 
> You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


Just out of interest, would you say the same about physical conditions?


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

BeauNoir said:


> Can I ask - what are you going to do when you become a dog trainer and have a bad day? Cancel a whole day worth of classes and one on one sessions? I think it is great that you are working towards something you'd love to do but I don't see how you think you can do that as a full time position but couldn't be a park warden or a dinner lady for instance?
> 
> If my trainer cancelled every few weeks, I'd go somewhere else and I am sure most other people would too so I don't understand how you believe you will be able to do that but won't be able to do numerous other positions?
> 
> ...


Sorry! I must of missed this, I can't keep up!

No I've not denied other work, I have really tried to get a job and failed 

Carrying out a consultation or class is a 45 min - 1 hours work each not 4 solid hours. My written reports are done in my own time so I can type a section and take regular breaks as I'll have self set deadlines.

I can separate my working time to within my limits. This is a business I am hoping to earn a living from, not work as hard as I can to earn more then I need. It's purely about getting at least what I have now but earning it.

I've dealt with dog fights already, once the adrenaline kicks in you don't even feel the pain. It's only afterwards that it sets in, I don't plan on setting any viscous dog loose either 

I think your last statement is very wrong. My dad became a self employed mechanic... Doesn't mean he refused to work and to only do a job he loved... Work is work at the end of the day.

But if I'm going to start my own business then why shouldn't it be something I really enjoy doing??


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Marycat said:


> I would love to have a dog..but I can't because we both work full time.. it's ironic really but it is better for a dog if their owner is NOT working or is working part time. I do worry about the vet bills for people on benefits though..My mum is currently paying £56 a wk for heart tablets for her King Charles..That's a lot of money in anyone's book..


It is a catch 22, really, isn't it!

If you work full time, it's difficult to accommodate a dog as you are not home a lot of the time. BUT you have the funds to. (And you should also be able to afford things like dog walkers and daycare...)

If, on the other end of the spectrum, you are on benefits and don't work, although you are at home a lot and can give the dog the time it needs, it is a huge struggle to keep them financially.

Ideally, there needs to be somewhere in between- working part-time or working from home are probably the best situations for having dogs.

However, that's not to say that those working full time, or not at all, should be scrutinised for having dogs. If you work full time, you need to assess your situation and what to put in place while you're working and if you're on benefits for whatever reason, you really need to look at your income and whether you can keep pets. As I said before, I would certainly refrain from getting more animals while on benefits as it would be a struggle to keep the ones I have got already.

You also need to consider breed characteristics and really look into which ones fit around your lifestyle. It is so complex a situation- I do wish everyone would think it through before taking on such an enormous financial and emotional investment. Sadly, many don't consider it logically...


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

When I had my horse, I used to have private lessons with a particular trainer.

She came to my yard and stood in the centre of the school giving me instructions, directions etc. On rare occasions, she would mount up and show me what she was trying to convey.

As it was, she was fully fit.

She could, however, have suffered from a painful/limiting condition - managed by medication/management. She could have sat on a seat to teach me, and some days been unable to ride. 

Surely, being a dog trainer/behaviourist could work along similar lines?

Training/assessing uses a combination of verbal and physical methods. 

Would a trainer be expected to part two dogs, when their owners were there?

Incidentally, I knew another riding instructor who was sadly involved in a collision with a speeding car - her horse died and she ended up in a wheelchair. She continued with her instructing career. But I bet she has good days and bad days and has to manage her appointments accordingly. 

Working for someone else and being tied into a rigid schedule may not be practical for her.

Sitting in a chair at a checkout for several hours, doing repetitive, painful movements, lifting heavy items, etc. could be impossible for her. 

I think some people need to cut some slack here.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> Yes things have changed massively in the last 5 years - DLA no longer exists for anyone of working age for starters, people with incurable (yes I did put the wrong terminology, but I can't see how having 9 months is less terminal than 6 months) cancer and an expected lifespan of more than 6 months are expected to complete work programmes to receive benefits. Incapacity benefit no longer exists and if you want ESA and are declared fit to work then off to poundland you go to work for your benefits even if you're expected to die within the year.


I am out of touch then, not sure when it all changed but it's two years since hubby died so it must be within that time frame.

I could never understand about the 6 month thing. If something is incurable and has a relatively short prognosis then, like you, to me that is terminal. If the prognosis is more like say 10 years then of course it's still terminal but quality of life is possibly better and within that period of time there could well be advances in treatment. I can only go by what was happening at the time my husband was receiving his benefits but I suppose there has to be a cut-off point during a terminal illness when the government is willing to give more financial assistance, as they did when they increased his DLA to a higher level for his last six months. I did have to repay 10 weeks of that because he was in hospital for that number of weeks before he died - I had no problem with that because the hospital was providing his care not myself, but I couldn't understand why a stop wasn't put on paying the benefits when I informed them of his hospitalisation rather than them continuing to pay until I sent the death certificate then demanding it be paid back .

If a person with terminal cancer has more than six months to live but suffering badly due to treatment or the progression of the illness, how on earth are they able to complete work programmes to qualify for their benefits . I sometimes think the world has gone mad .

Sorry OP, this has taken your thread on another tangent.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> Sorry! I must of missed this, I can't keep up!
> 
> No I've not denied other work, I have really tried to get a job and failed
> 
> ...


But it does sound like you're saying you're prepared to work if its a job you like but can't physically handle any other job even if it is less strenuous.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Goldstar said:


> There was a thread a while back about how often do you walk your dogs. The people that said not every day were not taken to very nicely.
> 
> This just keeps referring back to my original question. If someone's PHYSICAL illness is so bad you cannot work, how do they exercise their multiple dogs on bad days because there must be a lot of bad days to mean you can't work at all because of that illness.
> In these cases is it OK for the dogs to go without exercise frequently then but not OK for a dog to go without exercise when you're absolutely knackered after doing a 12 hr shift?


I can't speak for the OP, but in my case I walk the dogs when I can and have a support circle (OH, nieces, friends) to help when I can't.



WeedySeaDragon said:


> I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the responses that have been posted on this thread.
> 
> Sadly there appear to be a great deal of PFers who would benefit from having a read of this site. It may help them develop a bit of understanding and compassion.
> 
> ...


Please don't leave because some people are showing their ignorance of mental health. There are many on here who do know how debilitating any mental illness is, and who can and will support each other. Ignore those who don't know any better than to think they know it all.



Marycat said:


> I agree with this. I was diagnosed with extreme anxiety and depression and I have had 1 incidence of absence from work in 5 years (not related to anxiety) I was offered a sick note but I thought whats the point I will still have the same issues at home and in fact it will probably be worse because I am labelling myself as 'sick'and not getting out and about meeting people. I know its not the same for everyone but I do think that sometimes you have to man up and get on with it!! Its a good job we didn't have so many people on the sick during the war, we would have been buggered..As I say I know there are many genuine people but do I think that everyone who is on disability can't work..nope sorry don't believe it!!


It all depends what that job is. There are certain aspects of my job that have to be done accurately or I could kill someone. If I were suffering either mentally or physically, that could detract from my concentration and could have disastrous results. In that kind of circumstance, no amount of "manning up" is worth it.

I work in a mental health hopsital and every day see patients suffering from extreme anxiety and depression - and believe you me, not one of them would be able to "man up" enough to even acknowledge what day it was, never mind "man up" and hold down a job.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Just to clear things up for those who don't know, Disability Living Allowance, which I presume Sezeelson is on, is currently a non means tested benefit. She could still claim it if she was in work, and many do, quite rightly.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> Sorry! I must of missed this, I can't keep up!
> 
> No I've not denied other work, I have really tried to get a job and failed
> 
> ...


How are you planning on supporting yourself on an hours work per day? Let's say you earn £20 an hour for your one on one training, great, but you do 1 hour, 5 days per week, that is £100 a week, when you are paying your own rent and council tax, that will take that up straight away. Let alone anything for you or the dogs. Because you won't get paid extra for the time you are writing reports either.

So really, even with this job you are going to have to do at least 3 if not 4 hours per day to earn a okay wage (probably more depending on how much things are where you live). But, as I was saying, how are you going to be able to plan a month in advance that you will be okay to work for 3/4/5 hours in a day?

As you said about the dog fighting, the adrenaline will kick in and that is fine but what if that happens in your first session of a day? Then the pain will set in and you won't be able to do the rest of the sessions.

I am just saying, when you think about it properly there is no reason that you can earn a wage and completely fit it around your illness any more than you could with many, many other jobs. I am not denying you have looked, it is just the way it sounds from this thread when someone suggests a job, it is automatically with the reasons you can't. Good luck in the job hunt, I just really don't understand how you believe this will fit any better than loads of other things you could do.

By the way, I was not saying that being self employed is turning down other work, my dad is self employed too, he saw an opening and went for it. But if he was unemployed and a job came up he didn't want to do but could, he would take it, I was pointing out that from the sounds of it you didn't want to take anything other than your dream job of dog training.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

labradrk said:


> And my point it.....don't we all at times? or do you only legitimately experience anxiety when you have formally been diagnosed by a psychiatrist/doctor/whoever? I seem to get the notion from some that unless you have that formal 'label' slapped on you (blah blah disorder, syndrome, disease) your problems or feelings are not legitimate.
> 
> You get people saying "you can't possibly know what real anxiety (etc) is because you haven't been formally diagnosed with it". That is why it irritates me when people preach about how bad they have something and that no one could possibly know how it feels. Of course they don't - everyone is an individual! plenty of people suffer in silence, plodding through each day while milling through their personal problems because they simply don't have a choice.


Sorry cant highlight because im using my phone but the part saying 'dont we all at times?' No we dont. you tell me if some one knocks on the door at night do you curl yourself into a corner and have a panic attack because your so scared and feel completly trapped, have to get out of crowd of people that've suddenly turned up because your hearts beating so fast and your shaking so much, you feel like your going to pass out, everytime a group of men go to walk past me even while im walking Apollo my heart starts racing and I start physically sweating and shaking. Theres no 'dont we all' about reactions like that. Even just thinking about it I start shaking. Ive never been formally diagonosed and dont wish to be. I just get on with my life doing what I can and when it gets to bad will go to see a councillor again


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the responses that have been posted on this thread.
> 
> Sadly there appear to be a great deal of PFers who would benefit from having a read of this site. It may help them develop a bit of understanding and compassion.
> 
> ...


Why do you assume those people who are questioning the OP have no experience of mental illnesses?

Surely to start a thread as the OP did is asking for comments, which is what she received, why does having a different opinion mean people are wrong or not compassionate?

There are plently of debates on here, a lot of threads get much more heated than this


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Would a trainer be expected to part two dogs, when their owners were there?


I wouldn't expect them to part them on their own, but I would expect them to help. If it was my dog who had been attacked at a class and the trained did absolutely nothing to help it stop, I would never recommend that trainer to anyone, ever. I would completely warn people away.

I think it is a minimum in a training class that as the trainer you will assist if necessary in extreme situations.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

I haven't commented so far as what I see as benefit bludging is something that massively grinds my gears, reading this thread has made my head hurt  and torn me to some degree. I am one who has seen what sezeelson has posted in the past and been confused 

I didn't realise how young the OP was till the picture thread the other day, I have a friend with early onset arthritis, I have an idea of how debilitating it can be, how it is effected by external stuff and how it affects mental health. She has always worked her butt off, managed her working around her med days and never ever asked for help, even when she has ended up hospitalised the silly mare  Up until recently, she is in her mid 30's now and has finally succumbed, she absolutely hates the feeling of helplessness. So I do sympathise to a degree............

My OH has debilitating migraines. We suspect its anxiety based, he can be laid up for up to a 4 days on a weekly basis. We took the decision this May that he should stop work as it was turning into a big cycle of anxiety, migraine, anxiety about migraines, and letting work down etc etc He almost instantly improved, the bad days went down to fortnightly, and he even managed a whole month until last Monday  but he he cannot in all honesty apply for a full time positions until he has them under control and even then working might trigger the anxiety cycle again. So he is doing what he can when he can, he now does a couple of days cleaning a week and picks up the odd days gardening or odd job stuff here and there. Its been a hard struggle financially and emotionally, really ruddy hard but we never even considered that he should claim benefits  we asked for some counselling recently on the NHS and were turned down by the doctor, that made us feel good. Not! So thats the other side of the coin.

People see threads like this and their brains go :mad5:

A friend met a girl who already had two kids a few years back, she has had 3 more with him, and they have all the latest mod cons all paid for by the benefits she gets because of the kids, she buys him the latest Iphone/xbox etc for birthdays and xmas and he doesn't even register as living with her. 

Another friend is an amputee, lost a leg in a bike accident over 30 years ago, he works so chuffing hard at a physically demanding job. A job most able bodied people would struggle to do frankly, sure he moans, he moans like crazy  but he has never claimed any benefits apart fro using the NHS for his 'legs' but as he needs such technically advanced parts, because he works so hard, the NHS cant cope with the demands he puts on his leg and it has been suggested that it might be cheaper if he just sit back and claim what he is 'entitled' to. :frown2:

Then the OP is able to afford to train as something I would love to be able to do, her benefits seemingly pay for that and give her the time to be able to do the study. 

I dont have the time or money to such things as I am too busy trying to hold my business, my house, my home and marriage together. 

So thats why I have a problem with people 'choosing' (really ) not to work and using the money that other people have provided to pay for pedigree puppies and training courses for such specialised jobs as a dog behaviourist.

Right rant over, I do admire the OP for trying to find their niche as its something a hell of a lot of other claimants CBA to do.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> Yes things have changed massively in the last 5 years - DLA no longer exists for anyone of working age for starters, people with incurable (yes I did put the wrong terminology, but I can't see how having 9 months is less terminal than 6 months) cancer and an expected lifespan of more than 6 months are expected to complete work programmes to receive benefits. Incapacity benefit no longer exists and if you want ESA and are declared fit to work then off to poundland you go to work for your benefits even if you're expected to die within the year.
> 
> That is not what Asperger's is.


I wasn't describing Aspergers. It was a general comment, thus the separate paragraph.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Why do you assume those people who are questioning the OP have no experience of mental illnesses?
> 
> Surely to start a thread as the OP did is asking for comments, which is what she received, why does having a different opinion mean people are wrong or not compassionate?
> 
> There are plently of debates on here, a lot of threads get much more heated than this


It's not how heated it is, it's the assumptions and judgments on such little "evidence"

It seems that that is the way this forum is going at the moment. Still. I've been here long enough to see this sort of thing sweep through before


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

BeauNoir said:


> I wouldn't expect them to part them on their own, but I would expect them to help. If it was my dog who had been attacked at a class and the trained did absolutely nothing to help it stop, I would never recommend that trainer to anyone, ever. I would completely warn people away.
> 
> I think it is a minimum in a training class that as the trainer you will assist if necessary in extreme situations.


But the OP said she has in the past - as a reflex action - and despite the pain. But is it a prerequisite to being a trainer that you are physically able to do so at all times?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Why do you assume those people who are questioning the OP have no experience of mental illnesses?


From some of the replies on here, it's blindingly obvious that some people have no idea of what mental illness is and just how debilitating it can be. As I've just written on the vp of someone who was kind enough to give me rep, it seems that some people get a bit sad and think they have depression, or get a bit worried and think they have anxiety, and think that because they can continue with their normal lives while they're a bit sad or a bit worried then all mentally ill people should be able to. However, in reality clinical depression and clinical anxiety are about as far removed from that as chalk is from cheese.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> From some of the replies on here, it's blindingly obvious that some people have no idea of what mental illness is and just how debilitating it can be. As I've just written on the vp of someone who was kind enough to give me rep, it seems that some people get a bit sad and think they have depression, or get a bit worried and think they have anxiety, and think that because they can continue with their normal lives while they're a bit sad or a bit worried then all mentally ill people should be able to. However, in reality clinical depression and clinical anxiety are about as far removed from that as chalk is from cheese.


Couldn't agree more. Some people will never understand. If they lived my life for a day they may think twice.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

labradrk said:


> I wasn't describing Aspergers. It was a general comment, thus the separate paragraph.


So which medical diagnoses do you think are just having a shy personality, or any of the other things mentioned?

Not labels, a label isn't an official medical diagnosis made by medical specialists. People aren't labelled with Asperger's, any other developmental disorder, behavioural disorders, personality disorders or mental health conditions, they're diagnosed by specialists in that field.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

It wont be just one hour at a time though will it?
Because to cover your costs of hiring the hall/field/venue of your choice for your classes you will have to run more than one one hour class at a time.

My friend runs a dog training club and it is physically exhausting, she is on her feet for between 4-6 hours in a row. 
All of the training clubs I have been to run several classes in the row and I know one of them still wasn't making any money at all after costs. (he definitely does it for the love)

Not to mention all of the people above ( I am friends with everyone I have been to clubs of) 
have proper full time job as well, as chefs, policemen and running their own boarding kennels.

So the training you are doing is not actual going to get you back to being a contributing member of society is it?

I for one would love to have the time and resources to do training in the things that I love but I have to go to work in a job that I don't really like. To pay for the things that I do enjoy, namely my dogs. and before anyone says anything I do have a disability myself. 



I think it is very understandable that people are angry that you can afford to keep four dogs on benefits
I feel the same about the people on benefits who own horses.
and I do liken it to the drink/****/fake nails etc. It's all just unneccesary luxaries. 

When you started the thread surely you knew this , as the feeling had been expressed by your acquaintance already.
and you only have to go into general chat to see how heated the benefit threads get.


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## Wyrekin (Sep 10, 2012)

I think it is clear this is a very emotive subject. 

For me it is hard to understand what the OP suffers with as I do not have any experience of it. So I'm not going to comment on the OP not having a job as I don't feel that's the issue here.

What I feel is the issue is how the OP spends her money that comes from Tax Payers wages (yes I know tax goes on a variety of things but bare with me).

I would never begrudge someone having a dog when they are on benefits because I do think they help. However I would draw the line at how many. One dog is a lovely companion, 4 is a luxury. I know Sezeelson only pays for the care of two but she still shares her home with 4 which begs the question why the purchase of a pup?

I do not earn a huge amount. The only reason I moved out of my Dad's house was because I moved in to work accommodation. My wage is barely a living wage, I could just about (if I had no dogs) afford a small studio flat but I really would be living hand to mouth. Part of the reason my wage is so poor is because money gets taken out of it by the government. The tax I pay would really make the difference for my wage. As I said earlier I understand that tax goes on a variety of things and that one day I myself may need to claim benefits. 

What irks me though is that I go without luxuries because I cannot afford them, because I earn too little an amount. I have four dogs through happenstance not design. When I see that people who are on benefits that are taken from tax payers money add to their own outlay by buying themselves a puppy I do have to wonder why they are getting as much as they are and in balance why I am losing as much as I am.

This may make me sound greedy, even though I really feel for the OP, but as someone who works 40+ hours a week but can't afford to do the courses and things that the OP does I do find it difficult to not get annoyed. Benefits are there to help the people receiving them not to pay for hobbies.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> But it does sound like you're saying you're prepared to work if its a job you like but can't physically handle any other job even if it is less strenuous.


No, your choosing to hear that. Your choosing to completely disregard the fact that I have been employed voluntarily and that I have applied for jobs including mcdonalds... It's not my fault no one will employ and that the job I did do was way out of my physical ability.



BeauNoir said:


> How are you planning on supporting yourself on an hours work per day? Let's say you earn £20 an hour for your one on one training, great, but you do 1 hour, 5 days per week, that is £100 a week, when you are paying your own rent and council tax, that will take that up straight away. Let alone anything for you or the dogs. Because you won't get paid extra for the time you are writing reports either.
> 
> So really, even with this job you are going to have to do at least 3 if not 4 hours per day to earn a okay wage (probably more depending on how much things are where you live). But, as I was saying, how are you going to be able to plan a month in advance that you will be okay to work for 3/4/5 hours in a day?
> 
> ...


I have never been given an opportunity which I haven't accepted. It's not my fault I'm unemployable so this post is completely pointless. The job suggested here was sitting at till? 

What, should I train to be an accountant instead? Would that be more acceptable to you? I'm trying to do the best I can with the cards I've been dealt with and still not good enough for some 



GingerRogers said:


> I haven't commented so far as what I see as benefit bludging is something that massively grinds my gears, reading this thread has made my head hurt  and torn me to some degree. I am one who has seen what sezeelson has posted in the past and been confused
> 
> I didn't realise how young the OP was till the picture thread the other day, I have a friend with early onset arthritis, I have an idea of how debilitating it can be, how it is effected by external stuff and how it affects mental health. She has always worked her butt off, managed her working around her med days and never ever asked for help, even when she has ended up hospitalised the silly mare  Up until recently, she is in her mid 30's now and has finally succumbed, she absolutely hates the feeling of helplessness. So I do sympathise to a degree............
> 
> ...


Not entirely sure of your post?

I'm fed up of repeating myself so I'm just going to disregard some or your comments as you've presumed stuff about me that isn't true.

What threads exactly have I posted which are that bad? I chose to only write about the positives and the nicer things about my life on here so how on earth are you going to get a full picture of my life from some threads?


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Just a small plea from me to everyone reading this.

If you are struggling with what you feel may be depression or mental illness - _please_ get help of some kind. Reading this thread if you are already struggling may well be enough to put people off getting help.

I managed to hide my severe depression for about 10 years. I almost completely self-destructed when my body shut down. I have never recovered from the efffects of 'keeping it all in' - so whilst yes there are obviously always going to be people that take advantage of the MH 'tag' etc there are also I feel many people out there that don't want to be labelled and so soldier on until something disastrous happens. 

I didn't want to labelled, my dad was ill with depression (he had a nervous breakdown when a serious accident left him unable to work) and I didn't want to burden anyone. So as a 14 year old girl I hid it from everyone. It nearly killed me.

I am not going into details about my personal situation - and I hope the OP doesn't mind me saying this in her thread. But reading it I felt I just had to say something.

I work part-time. If I worked full-time life would be much easier financially but I'd rather do without some things and have the time with my husband. He is much, much older than me and our time is very precious to me. Health-wise part-time work is the ideal for me too. xx


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

rona said:


> It's not how heated it is, it's the assumptions and judgments on such little "evidence"
> 
> It seems that that is the way this forum is going at the moment. Still. I've been here long enough to see this sort of thing sweep through before


Part of being on a forum though really! 

Surely if you are comfortable in your decisions then a few comments from a bunch of people you don't know mean b*gger all


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

babycham2002 said:


> It wont be just one hour at a time though will it?
> Because to cover your costs of hiring the hall/field/venue of your choice for your classes you will have to run more than one one hour class at a time.
> 
> My friend runs a dog training club and it is physically exhausting, she is on her feet for between 4-6 hours in a row.
> ...


I don't have 4 dogs


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Just to clear things up for those who don't know, Disability Living Allowance, which I presume Sezeelson is on, is currently a non means tested benefit. She could still claim it if she was in work, and many do, quite rightly.


Now I'm getting confused. *Tabulahrasa* says DLA no longer exists so I've just looked it up. Apparently it exists at the moment for previous claimants but is being replaced with Personal Independence Payment for people aged between 16-64. New claims for DLA are only for children under 16, any new claimants 16-64 applies for PIP now.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

DirtyGertie said:


> Now I'm getting confused. *Tabulahrasa* says DLA no longer exists so I've just looked it up. Apparently it exists at the moment for previous claimants but is being replaced with Personal Independence Payment for people aged between 16-64. New claims for DLA are only for children under 16, any new claimants 16-64 applies for PIP now.


Ah, I only know the system through submitting a claim for my OH's father who was over 65, assumed it was still the same all round - or at least it used to be, sorry for the confusion.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Wyrekin said:


> I think it is clear this is a very emotive subject.
> 
> For me it is hard to understand what the OP suffers with as I do not have any experience of it. So I'm not going to comment on the OP not having a job as I don't feel that's the issue here.
> 
> ...


This isn't my home. I live on a floor in the front room.

I didn't pay for the puppy. She is to be raised to help me physically as Rossi doesn't have the attention span and I will never qualify for help from charities. She is a necessity to me not just a luxury.

My courses are funded by my gran and loaned by mum whom I pay back with tiny instalments.

Hope that clears up some misconceptions.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> No, your choosing to hear that. Your choosing to completely disregard the fact that I have been employed voluntarily and that I have applied for jobs including mcdonalds... It's not my fault no one will employ and that the job I did do was way out of my physical ability.
> 
> I have never been given an opportunity which I haven't accepted. It's not my fault I'm unemployable so this post is completely pointless. The job suggested here was sitting at till?
> 
> ...


Lol I am not either, like I say part of me admires you part of me thinks its damn unfair, its hardly fair that you have the illness in the first place, but it all part of lifes tapestry, we all have our problems and crosses to bear dont we, just rambling stuff that pops into my head when I see a thread like this started.

I didnt say you had posted 'bad' things BTW just confused me  and now it seems I have confused you


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Ah, I only know the system through submitting a claim for my OH's father who was over 65, assumed it was still the same all round - or at least it used to be, sorry for the confusion.


Oh, that's OK. I wasn't aware of the changes that had been made since my late hubby died in 2011. After your post I was just curious so went and had a lookey .


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Wyrekin said:


> even though I really feel for the OP, but as someone who works 40+ hours a week but can't afford to do the courses and things that the OP does I do find it difficult to not get annoyed. Benefits are there to help the people receiving them not to pay for hobbies.


This is what gets me wound up

I am low income too - yet to get any help to finish my degree, I have to go to Uni full time (which I can't do as I need to work to keep a roof over everyone's heads) - if I go part time (so I can still work, keep us all fed etc *and* continue to pay taxes) .... I get no help whatsoever

I've worked since I was 16 - surely I (and others like me) have just as much right to finish our education as those who are unemployed (whether through choice or circumstance)

Then we too could try to better ourselves and find better jobs for our long term future - which will be more than paid back in the extra taxes we'll then pay!


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

DirtyGertie said:


> Now I'm getting confused. *Tabulahrasa* says DLA no longer exists so I've just looked it up. Apparently it exists at the moment for previous claimants but is being replaced with Personal Independence Payment for people aged between 16-64. New claims for DLA are only for children under 16, any new claimants 16-64 applies for PIP now.


That is correct


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

If people have pets before they come onto benefits, I can understand them not wanting to get rid of their animals, and if they are able to afford to keep them it is great. It is also less of a strain on the dog rescues, who would have to cope with loads of abandoned animals.

What I object to is people who are on benefits choosing to get a puppy/kitten, then using the PDSA or other charities for vet bills and free/cheap neutering. I can think of at least 2 families near me with multiple pets who are always trundling off to the RSPCA clinic rather than pay a vet near me. They can also afford holidays while on benefit - with the pets going into kennels - which is something I have not done for 7 years and I work

I would love to be able to have more pets, do courses that interest me and work with dogs but unfortunately I do not have the time or money to do it.....here's hoping for a lottery win


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I haven't read all the previous pages but I'm getting the gist of the thread.

I don't personally have anything against someone on benefits having a pet, crikey, for some people that's ALL they have, but, my experience isn't like that.

30 years ago I walked regularly with a friend who was on benefits, so was her husband. At the time I had three jobs, on my own, owned my house ( a small one ) ran a car and had three dogs. My friend and I met every day to walk our dogs, she never once turned up in anything other than pucker walking stuff, Barbour coats/wellies etc. etc. She had two dogs, five cats, so many Parrots I've forgotten, numerous fish-tanks and her husband drove a range rover. She'd think nothing of going off to various dog shows no matter where they were in the country.

I remember one day meeting her and she looked terrified. They'd both had a letter from the authorities telling them her husband was being called in to the office because his benefits were going to be cut/stopped.... she then announced to me "we'll have to pay our own council tax now!" :mad5: That was on a Wednesday, by Friday her husband had gone out and got himself a job.....

I think she knew how angry I was that for years they'd both been collecting various benefits and watched me struggle with three jobs to pay for my lifestyle. Yes, that made me very mad indeed. 

One pet, two at a push maybe, any more, no, they're a luxury IMO.


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## Wyrekin (Sep 10, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> This isn't my home. I live on a floor in the front room.
> 
> I didn't pay for the puppy. She is to be raised to help me physically as Rossi doesn't have the attention span and I will never qualify for help from charities. She is a necessity to me not just a luxury.
> 
> ...


Here is where hindsight helps everything  If you had known the thread would go this way from the start you would have given all of this info in your opening post and I would have known this before making mine.

I had no idea Runa was to be a helper, I'm sorry I must have missed it. As I said previously I have no issue with someone legitimately claiming benefits, which I believe you are, and it is clear the majority of what you get goes on your care and welfare. I am fine with that.

I would also like to say, not just for the benefit of you but for others reading this thread, please don't take it that I feel people who legitimately claim benefits shouldn't be allowed a few indulgences as it is not their fault they end up in the situation they are in. Life would be very boring without the odd treat but it should be just that, an odd treat.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> Lol I am not either, like I say part of me admires you part of me thinks its damn unfair, its hardly fair that you have the illness in the first place, but it all part of lifes tapestry, we all have our problems and crosses to bear dont we, just rambling stuff that pops into my head when I see a thread like this started.
> 
> I didnt say you had posted 'bad' things BTW just confused me  and now it seems I have confused you


Lol! 

I'm not hiding anything  my threads are there to see, I'm not one to come on a public forum and moan about my life though! I have arthritis dedicated forums for that 

I'm only doing the best I can. I didn't want to be on benefits and did everything I could to avoid it.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

DirtyGertie said:


> Now I'm getting confused. *Tabulahrasa* says DLA no longer exists so I've just looked it up. Apparently it exists at the moment for previous claimants but is being replaced with Personal Independence Payment for people aged between 16-64. New claims for DLA are only for children under 16, any new claimants 16-64 applies for PIP now.


Yep new claimants are being assessed for PIP as of a couple of months ago and existing claimants all to be swapped soon after.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Wyrekin said:


> Here is where hindsight helps everything  If you had known the thread would go this way from the start you would have given all of this info in your opening post and I would have known this before making mine.
> 
> I had no idea Runa was to be a helper, I'm sorry I must have missed it. As I said previously I have no issue with someone legitimately claiming benefits, which I believe you are, and it is clear the majority of what you get goes on your care and welfare. I am fine with that.
> 
> I would also like to say, not just for the benefit of you but for others reading this thread, please don't take it that I feel people who legitimately claim benefits shouldn't be allowed a few indulgences as it is not their fault they end up in the situation they are in. Life would be very boring without the odd treat but it should be just that, an odd treat.


Because I never believe people are really going to bother with my threads! Then it all kicks of and I feel silly! It's why I have to keep repeating myself too as I think a lot just read the opening comment! Runa was NOT an easy decision to make and my mother desperately wanted her too, while she is to be trained in specific tasks to assist me, she was supposed to be a family pet.

My dogs are just that! I don't go on holiday and my friend was nice enough to take me camping a little while back which was just amazing!
I don't pay for any bills, sky, internet, etc. etc. I'm just happy with my dogs and working at getting my life on track so I can contribute and put back into the system!

My dream job is to train dogs who are provided for disabled people but they have only ever had full time jobs! I'll get there


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Part of being on a forum though really!
> 
> Surely if you are comfortable in your decisions then a few comments from a bunch of people you don't know mean b*gger all


If you don't suffer from certain conditions then yes, but then we are the lucky ones


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

If you dont pay for any bills, and live free with someone else, ( I gather) why do you need benefits ? Does it all go on your dogs and hobbys then?


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

Having a dog has helped me through a lot of illness, both physical and mental. If it hadn't have been for him, I honestly don't know what would have happened to me.
I'm on the state pension, and yes I do go without things sometimes to make sure he has what he needs. But the day to day cost of owning a dog needn't be horrendous. Cheaper dog food is one big saving, and yes I get cheap food for myself too. Pound shops are an excellent way of getting things like leads and bowls, toys too if your dog isn't destructive.

What I'm trying to say is that even on benefits, the cost of owning a dog can be met, and the theraputic value of having a dog is beyond measure.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Lilylass said:


> This is what gets me wound up
> 
> I am low income too - yet to get any help to finish my degree, I have to go to Uni full time (which I can't do as I need to work to keep a roof over everyone's heads) - if I go part time (so I can still work, keep us all fed etc *and* continue to pay taxes) .... I get no help whatsoever
> 
> ...


But the reason why does matter - if you're unemployed through choice you don't get any help to study or to do anything else other than survive until you find a job.

If the OP was declared fit to work, or deemed well enough not to be in receipt of any benefits then she'd be entitled to the same benefits as anyone else of working age.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Just to add, to those who are angry and think it is "unfair" that the OP gets benefits, I would like to remind you that what is really unfair is that a young woman has to be in pain, and rearrange her life around to that pain in the first place! 

People seem to be under the impression that being on benefits is better than working. Being ill and in pain is NOT better than going to work. I said it earlier but I will say it again, people who are too unwell to work, WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO BE WELL and to be able to work and be part of 'normal' society.

It's a bit crazy that I feel the need to have to repeat this, but many posts seem to suggest that somehow being on benefits is great fun.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

It's a bit crazy that I feel the need to have to repeat this, but many posts seem to suggest that somehow being on benefits is great fun.


But for some it is sadly.


(my highlighted bit hasn't worked for some reason)


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> But the reason why does matter - if you're unemployed through choice you don't get any help to study or to do anything else other than survive until you find a job.


So why should some people who choose to work part time or choose to be a SAHM (not saying there is anything wrong with either - just highlighting the inequalities in the system) and get WTC, get to have their courses paid in full .... when others who work full time but are low income and have been paying tax etc - not get anything?


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> If you dont pay for any bills, and live free with someone else, ( I gather) why do you need benefits ? Does it all go on your dogs and hobbys then?


No, obviously I need to buy food, which is probably more then it should as I'm on a special diet due to intolerances  I take over the counter painkillers to which can mount up if I have a flair up, I also buy accessories for taking my meds as I'm on injections. My phone bill and debt repayments to mum.

I also have to cover petrol costs going to and from hospital and I pay for physio and regular swimming to help with my joints and muscle tone which is a fair bit.

It also covers my car tax and insurance so I can get around much more easily, especially when my walking isn't very good.

Then there is the dogs insurance and food which is so far £42.00 a month altogether?


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

8tansox said:


> It's a bit crazy that I feel the need to have to repeat this, but many posts seem to suggest that somehow being on benefits is great fun.
> 
> *But for some it is sadly.*
> 
> (my highlighted bit hasn't worked for some reason)


But never for those who are genuinely ill and in pain (and as for the others, there's a lot of propaganda that goes on around benefit fraud, we are led to believe that every tom dick and harry claiming is lying and not entitled to what they get - this is simply not true, but that's another debate).


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Alice Childress said:


> Just to add, to those who are angry and think it is "unfair" that the OP gets benefits, I would like to remind you that what is really unfair is that a young woman has to be in pain, and rearrange her life around to that pain in the first place!
> 
> *People seem to be under the impression that being on benefits is better than working*. Being ill and in pain is NOT better than going to work. I said it earlier but I will say it again, people who are too unwell to work, WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO BE WELL and to be able to work and be part of 'normal' society.
> 
> It's a bit crazy that I feel the need to have to repeat this, but many posts seem to suggest that somehow being on benefits is great fun.


For some it is - I know these people

I don't think the comments here (or those I have read) are not acknowledging that the OP experiences pain but they are questioning how her pain affects her ability to do any sort of work yet doesn't seem to impact her life with her dogs too much .....


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ouesi said:


> I read an interesting blog post about this. It is a bit of a head scratcher - where do you draw the line between normal and disordered?
> A friend of mine is a triathlon junkie, and he recently did his first full ironman. During the run, with 12 miles to go, he literally passed out, and hit the pavement with his face. When he came to, he refused the ambulance and finished, earning his first ironman with a bloodied face and a dangerously low BP. He had to get IV fluids at the finish line.
> 
> Normal behavior worth accolades (which he got) or disordered behavior that requires an intervention?
> ...


I have not read the link but I can empathise with someone that would do this. A few years ago I had an accident with a horse. It knocked me over and ran over the top of me. I got up and set off to catch it (even though there were 3 other people there!), supervised it being untacked and seen to, went in the house and had a cup of tea with the owners of the horse then got my husband to take me to hospital. I had stitches in my head, and suffered from concussion for 2 weeks. I had been trodden on on my back in two places and could barely hobble. Both knees were injured and one later needed surgery.
So am I normal or do I suffer from a disorder


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> *For some it is - I know these people
> *
> I don't think the comments here (or those I have read) are not acknowledging that the OP experiences pain but they are questioning how her pain affects her ability to do any sort of work yet doesn't seem to impact her life with her dogs too much .....


Sigh. I'll say it again. BUT NOT FOR THOSE WHO ARE GENUINELY ILL AND IN PAIN.

I think the problem here is that a lot of people, and this is not directed specifically at you Cleo38, do not have experience with being seriously ill/pain. I suspect some do not even know that certain levels of pain are possible. I make this assumption based on some of the throw away comments I have read. If people believe someone with serious pain could work at an office desk all day, then they simply do not understand the level of pain some people experience/that is possible to experience.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I have not read the link but I can empathise with someone that would do this. A few years ago I had an accident with a horse. It knocked me over and ran over the top of me. I got up and set off to catch it (even though there were 3 other people there!), supervised it being untacked and seen to, went in the house and had a cup of tea with the owners of the horse then got my husband to take me to hospital. I had stitches in my head, and suffered from concussion for 2 weeks. I had been trodden on on my back in two places and could barely hobble. Both knees were injured and one later needed surgery.
> So am I normal or do I suffer from a disorder


OMG, that sounds terrible!

Wasn't it cinnamontoast who was kicked by horse (resulting in such a horrific leg injury - one of the most dreadful pics I have ever seen!) & walked to meet the ambulance with her leg in pieces?

Probably complete shock or she was just incredibly resilient - not sure!


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> So why should some people who choose to work part time or choose to be a SAHM (not saying there is anything wrong with either - just highlighting the inequalities in the system) and get WTC, get to have their courses paid in full .... when others who work full time but are low income and have been paying tax etc - not get anything?


I choose to be a stay a home mum, im a single parent and my daughter is extremely likely to be my only child. I start my OU Business degree next year but won't get any help for it I have to take out student loans like anyone else would and once my daughter is 5 (which is in two year) my income support will stop and I will have to get a part time job as well as study for my degree while she's at school.

I will say though I know of plenty of people who have had kid after kid so they can get as much money as possible without having to work, I was told they were going to put a cap on the number of children you can claim benefits for but that seems to have not happened. my mum knows someone who is only 28 and has 7 children just so she can claim money for them and not have to work:frown2:


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Lilylass said:


> So why should some people who choose to work part time or choose to be a SAHM (not saying there is anything wrong with either - just highlighting the inequalities in the system) and get WTC, get to have their courses paid in full .... when others who work full time but are low income and have been paying tax etc - not get anything?


You can only get working tax credits if you work...and the number of hours you need to work is rising and the age of children you can choose to stay at home to look after is going down.

There are some course available free for people on unemployment or other benefits...but not other financial support.

You can't claim JSA and study, you can't claim income support and study full time, you can't study and get working tax credits unless the studying is over and above the required hours of work.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

The whole system stinks TBH - there are people who genuinely need it, claim what they can and really struggle to make ends meet - others who sponge off the system and expect the state to look after them (and seem to have a pretty comfortable living for some reason *ETA* that is not directed at anyone on here)

One of my friends gave up work (she had always worked until then) when she & her partner split up as she had no childcare - it was supposed to be short term BUT she gets more in benefits than our GROSS pay 

So she's not gone back to work ..... where's the incentive for her to?

She now has a newer car, and bits and pieces in her house & can afford to go on holiday at least once a year - but couldn't when she worked ....

She's also had 5 crowns done in the last year - that she couldn't afford to have done when she was working ..... surely all of that can't be right OR all deemed necessities of life & a good use of public money!


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I have not read the link but I can empathise with someone that would do this. A few years ago I had an accident with a horse. It knocked me over and ran over the top of me. I got up and set off to catch it (even though there were 3 other people there!), supervised it being untacked and seen to, went in the house and had a cup of tea with the owners of the horse then got my husband to take me to hospital. I had stitches in my head, and suffered from concussion for 2 weeks. I had been trodden on on my back in two places and could barely hobble. Both knees were injured and one later needed surgery.
> So am I normal or do I suffer from a disorder


I think the fact that you are a horse person makes you abnormal LOL.
I've broken a collarbone and went on to ride a full cross-country course. I'm still not sure how I did that, the bone wasn't set and dug in to me leaving terrible bruising that eventually turned all sorts of pretty colors and drained down to my boob. Every day I'd wake up to a different colored boob LOL!

But really it all comes down to the individual, which is why there will never be a way to decide what is "fair" when it comes to benefits and who should get them.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> For some it is - I know these people
> 
> I don't think the comments here (or those I have read) are not acknowledging that the OP experiences pain but they are questioning how her pain affects her ability to do any sort of work yet doesn't seem to impact her life with her dogs too much .....


It impacts my life massively though and I have round the clock care. I have people making me my breakfast in the morning because I can't move and have to physically aid me around the house when I can't walk.

There are times I can't even dress myself, comb my hair, apply make up etc. all the things able bodied people take for total granted!

I walk the dogs in clothes I fall into and I'm always wearing a hat so no one notices my messy hair. I collapse in pain on regular basis and when I go down there is no getting up! Which is one of the biggest reasons I 'need' a trained dog. Rossi does usually come to me so I can use him to get myself propped up, but he is unreliable (his past maybe?) and doesn't like being man handled. I've been burned pouring a kettle more times then you have had hot meals and I have to sit on the floor (then get back up  ) to load the washer as I can't maintain a bent over position.

My dogs are the reason I get up in the morning, Rossi is the sole reason I can walk today (according to my specialist) and I'll be far, far worse off without them.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

*Live my life for one day... in my shoes before you judge me.

Walk in my shoes
*

Walk in my shoes just one step,
you will feel my pain and how
I have silently wept.

Walk in my shoes just one foot,
you will feel how I struggle every day
to stay strong and be tough as wood.

Walk in my shoes, just one yard,
you will feel my heart ache and
be able to empathize how some
days are truly hard.

Walk in my shoes, just one mile,
you will feel the frustration I feel in
having to keep a phony smile.

Walk in my shoes for a day,
you will suffer the pain I feel,
when the judgment you subtly pass
is so obvious to me.

Walk in my shoes for a week,
you will then come to realize
how much respect you really have for me.

No need to walk any further,
for you are able to step out of my shoes.
You will now know all the struggles
it takes to survive and all
the stress that is juggled.

Before you judge me, just try a walk
in my shoes,
even if it is for a moment.
For you will never know when you will
be wearing the same shoes too.

Victoria T Zicafoose 
A Walk In My Shoes (poem) by Victoria T Zicafoose on AuthorsDen


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Alice Childress said:


> Sigh. I'll say it again. BUT NOT FOR THOSE WHO ARE GENUINELY ILL AND IN PAIN.
> 
> I think the problem here is that a lot of people, and this is not directed specifically at you Cleo38, do not have experience with being seriously ill/pain. I suspect some do not even know that certain levels of pain are possible. I make this assumption based on some of the throw away comments I have read. If people believe someone with serious pain could work at an office desk all day, then they simply do not understand the level of pain some people experience/that is possible to experience.


Sorry but I think you are wrong. As I said in previous posts I had a back injury last year (am still suffering from it & will probably need an op soon)

I was surprised at how debilitating constant pain could be, not only did it cause me physical problems (putting my socks on was a massive achievement for me after a few weeks!) but I began to go downhill mentally because of it. Not being able to do the simplest of things coupled with lack of sleep began to seriously affect me & I had to tell the doctors to get some help for my depression as well as for the physical problem with my back.

I had a phased return to work but my job (unfortunately) involves sitting (which is the WORST thing for me) but I have to do it, I have no other option of paying my bills if I cannot work. I manage this by having regular breaks, I work at home one day a week, but as I have to drive to work I can't take the pain killers I have been prescribed as it impairs my judgment & makes me sleepy.

The fact of losing my home sort of makes it a priority to get myself to work & I do have to cope with a certain amount of pain every day, it's sort of become part of my life now & I have attended a pain management clinic in order to learn to cope with this.

I am completely sympathetic with people who are suffering, it is not easy to cope with day to day pain & mine was minor in comparison with a lot of people. But I do feel that people do need t push themselves in some circumstances, there seems to be too much acceptance that they 'can't work' & not enough investigation of possible types of work they could do


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

It's very true. "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

*Cleo* - we are living the same life  I hope it helps a little to know you're not alone & it sucks

I can't put my socks on when I first get up (everything seizes overnight) so have to take Maisie out in the mornings without any (not great in winter )
I have loose jogging bottoms I can pull on when I'm sat on the loo  and usually end up going out with my PJ top on (with something over it so it's hopefully not too obvious)

Usually by the time I've got back (which is why it's good that I've got her as it makes me go for a walk no matter how bad I am - and it does help ) I've loosened off a bit and can get them on then

I'm in a similar job and if I forget to stand up and move for a while (which is easy when you're busy) I really struggle to get moving and often get odd looks as I hobble up the office ..... but you just kind of struggle on and make the best of things that you can ..... (((hugs)))

Before I was like this, I used to have loads of friends and a really active social life - that's all gone as by the time I've done the pets, gone to work, come home & sorted them & me out, that's it, there's nothing left for anything else .... but I need to work so you just adapt to it as much as you can


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry but I think you are wrong. As I said in previous posts I had a back injury last year (am still suffering from it & will probably need an op soon)
> 
> I was surprised at how debilitating constant pain could be, not only did it cause me physical problems (putting my socks on was a massive achievement for me after a few weeks!) but I began to go downhill mentally because of it. Not being able to do the simplest of things coupled with lack of sleep began to seriously affect me & I had to tell the doctors to get some help for my depression as well as for the physical problem with my back.
> 
> ...


And in most circumstances, I disagree with this. Strongly. If we are talking about people who are not truly entitled to financial help, then of course what you say is true. However, when talking about people who are genuinely ill, pushing yourself can be (and often is, depending on the illness) incredibly dangerous for the sufferer, and damaging. I am a psychotherapist and the clients I see who suffer with a genuine physical illness, almost exclusively push themselves TOO much, and in fact, the therapy is often around them accepting and respecting their bodies limitations and learning to live around it (without giving up hope for getting better if that's appropriate of course). The message that they should 'get over it', 'pull them selves together' and 'push themselves' has caused these people serious damage, both physically from pushing themselves and ignoring their bodies signs to stop, and emotionally from having their very real experience and pain dismissed.

There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but a common personality feature I have noticed in those suffering long term illness, is that they ignore their bodies and push themselves, which eventually makes things worse (and know professionals, both in my own field and in the medical sector, who share this observation).

There are so many different sorts of illnesses, that to make a sweeping comment that 'most can work', or that 'most should push themselves', is silly at best.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

GingerRogers said:


> I haven't commented so far as what I see as benefit bludging is something that massively grinds my gears, reading this thread has made my head hurt  and torn me to some degree. I am one who has seen what sezeelson has posted in the past and been confused
> 
> I didn't realise how young the OP was till the picture thread the other day, I have a friend with early onset arthritis, I have an idea of how debilitating it can be, how it is effected by external stuff and how it affects mental health. She has always worked her butt off, managed her working around her med days and never ever asked for help, even when she has ended up hospitalised the silly mare  Up until recently, she is in her mid 30's now and has finally succumbed, she absolutely hates the feeling of helplessness. So I do sympathise to a degree............
> 
> ...


This.

My husband has rheumatoid arthritis and worked all his life, I have oesteo arthritis and I am, like Ginger Rogers completely self funding, despite redundancy and my husband is on a pension. My Open University degree was paid for be me, my MA is paid for by me and as far as I am aware, despite us both having good and bad days we are not entitled to a penny from the state. I'd dearly love to do more courses, particularly dog behaviourism but I can't afford it, I'm too busy trying to get the funds to pay for Molly's food. She is a treat and whilst we'd love a second dog and have thought long and hard about this recently, we can't afford it. We've had to stop IVF (again all paid by us as our local PCT is pants and on my principle that one size fits all IVF doesn't suit everyone, another story) because we cannot afford it.

There was a piece on the news this week about a person saying she was the forgotten class in response to the energy price rise by British Gas. I agree with that. I think that's what me and my OH are. We're in danger of being pushed into a difficult place if all the energy companies follow BG. Ultimately I will have to give up the MA and go to get a full time job. That makes me upset because if I did claim I might stand a change of finishing it, being better positioned and probably free from depression.

I therefore have an appreciation of how awful arthritis is, but medication has moved on since my late grandad used to take aspirin what seemed like hourly. A dog can often be a great health benefit and we've finally found a medical solution that works for my husband although each day is different. I dare say he'd had been better not working but he chose to work. He is either daft or sensible as his choice to work has made life a bit more bearable than if he hadn't thanks to a private pension that he really tried hard not to lose. The choice to not work must be a tough one to make.

My mum never had a penny beyond child benefit when we were kids despite being bi-polar, the hidden illnesses are often the most difficult to comprehend. A friend who has dwarfism has been told to work again despite being in her 40's and in considerable pain. Conversely my second cousin has three children, no job and has far more technical gizmos in her house than I have. Where I grow my own veg, make a whole chicken last 4 days, 5 some weeks, she can afford ready meals. It baffles and confuses me. Genuinely.

For every person who has a genuine need there is someone taking the mickey. Those who abuse it are the ones we always hear of in the press over those with a genuine need.

Edited to say: that I have gone in a complete circle here, that's how I feel about it all really. The system is so complex thanks to successive governments fiddling with it depending on their manifestos and for those of us at the borderline I think that makes it more of a difficult issue.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> And I disagree with this. Strongly. If we are talking about people who are not truly entitled to financial help, then of course what you say is true. However, when talking about people who are genuinely ill, pushing yourself can be (and often is, depending on the illness) incredibly dangerous for the sufferer, and damaging. I am a psychotherapist and the clients I see who suffer with a genuine physical illness, almost exclusively push themselves TOO much, and in fact, the therapy is often around them accepting and respecting their bodies limitations and learning to live around it (without giving up hope for getting better if that's appropriate of course). The message that they should 'get over it', 'pull them selves together' and 'push themselves' has caused these people serious damage, both physically from pushing themselves and ignoring their bodies signs to stop, and emotionally from having their very real experience and pain dismissed.
> 
> There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but a common personality feature I have noticed in those suffering long term illness, is that they ignore their bodies and push themselves, which eventually makes things worse (and know professionals, both in my own field and in the medical sector, who share this observation).
> 
> There are so many different sorts of illnesses, that to make a sweeping comment that 'most can work', or that 'most should push themselves', is silly at best.


This really is a debate that will go round and round in circles as it's a subject that people feel very strongly about, and it's unlikely either party will meet in the middle. There is also alot of assumptions, many of which may be wrong, being banded about by both sides.

I have no problem with people receiving benefits if they genuinely need them - I do however have every issue with people using them to pay for luxuries, of which dogs are - IMHO, benefits should cover the basic cost of living and nothing more. I also take issue with people saying they are unable to do every job that has been suggested, but are evidently able to take care of multiple large dogs which require all the same physical skills and activity that many of the jobs suggested do.

Perhaps I'm a little out of the loop. Entirely different generation to most here - if I didn't work, the bills wouldn't have got paid and the kids wouldn't have got fed, never mind the dog! People managed to get on with it then - only thing that is different now is the option of not having to


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Lilylass said:


> *Cleo* - we are living the same life  I hope it helps a little to know you're not alone & it sucks
> 
> I can't put my socks on when I first get up (everything seizes overnight) so have to take Maisie out in the mornings without any (not great in winter )
> I have loose jogging bottoms I can pull on when I'm sat on the loo  and usually end up going out with my PJ top on (with something over it so it's hopefully not too obvious)
> ...


I have stickers that I have put up around my desk that remind me to take a break, I also have use of the medial room where I can do stretches & have a lie down if my back is bad.

It's rubbish isn't it? When my 72yr old mum comes to stay she can get up out of a chair with ease ...with me I have to get up slowly, position myself so my back is 'in place' then move .... I'm 42!!!



Alice Childress said:


> And in most circumstances, I disagree with this. Strongly. If we are talking about people who are not truly entitled to financial help, then of course what you say is true. However, when talking about people who are genuinely ill, pushing yourself can be (and often is, depending on the illness) incredibly dangerous for the sufferer, and damaging. I am a psychotherapist and the clients I see who suffer with a genuine physical illness, almost exclusively push themselves TOO much, and in fact, the therapy is often around them accepting and respecting their bodies limitations and learning to live around it (without giving up hope for getting better if that's appropriate of course). The message that they should 'get over it', 'pull them selves together' and 'push themselves' has caused these people serious damage, both physically from pushing themselves and ignoring their bodies signs to stop, and emotionally from having their very real experience and pain dismissed.
> 
> There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but a common personality feature I have noticed in those suffering long term illness, is that they ignore their bodies and push themselves, which eventually makes things worse (and know professionals, both in my own field and in the medical sector, who share this observation).
> 
> There are so many different sorts of illnesses, that to make a sweeping comment that 'most can work', or that 'most should push themselves', is silly at best.


But without pushing myself I would still be unable to put my socks on 

I do understand what you are saying & there are probably certain ailments/conditions when this is dangerous but in some cases (mine obviously) my physio told me that some exercises would have me in tears, some would be painful & at times I would feel like giving up but I did need to work through this .... & he was right!

As I said, the thought of not paying my mortgage spurs me on & I do just have to get on with things (although as I said in previous posts Im in no way thinking I have pain like some!). To not push myself would see us lose our home & everything that went with it .... I don't want that to happen so I work & push myself


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

SixStar said:


> This really is a debate that will go round and round in circles as it's a subject that people feel very strongly about, and it's unlikely either party will meet in the middle. There is also alot of assumptions, many of which may be wrong, being banded about by both sides.
> 
> I have no problem with people receiving benefits if they genuinely need them - I do however have every issue with people using them to pay for luxuries, of which dogs are - IMHO, benefits should cover the basic cost of living and nothing more. I also take issue with people saying they are unable to do every job that has been suggested, but are evidently able to take care of multiple large dogs which require all the same physical skills and activity that many of the jobs suggested do.
> 
> Perhaps I'm a little out of the loop. Entirely different generation to most here - if I didn't work, the bills wouldn't have got paid and the kids wouldn't have got fed, never mind the dog! People managed to get on with it then - only thing that is different now is the option of not having to


Really?
I honestly don't understand why people are comparing owning a dog to working..? Please enlighten me?

Wait, what jobs have been suggested? I've only seen the working at the till so must have missed them??

I was kicked out when I was 15 so I'd likely still be homeless without benefits.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

I have tried to reply to this thread a few times tonight and keep deleting my replies before sending.

My initial response to this thread was shock that someone preferred to be on benefits than work,although I read the OP's thread incorrectly.

But my reason for my first response was that I too have Rhumatoid Arthritis but unlike the OP I didn't get it until I was 30,with a career.Also unlike the OP I have always lived alone so I have had to learn to cope and prioritize.

I thought I was doing well until 5 years after being diagnosed my mum came to visit,I hadn't seen her for a few months,she was so shocked she made me go back to the doctors and I was hospitalised within days,my meds were not working and I was suffering from severe depression.

After 2 weeks I was back out of hospital,within a month I got another promotion and moved by myself from Edinburgh to Liverpool,even though at this stage I was walking with walking sticks.

My muscle wastage was so bad I could barely walk,so I got a dog.

A few transfers/moves/promotions and 16 years after that setback I gave up my job for a variety of reasons partly my health mental and physical.

As mentioned I went on benefits for a couple of months earlier on this year when my savings ran out.

I now have my own small business making collars,I can't make too many as it hurts my hands,but I make just enough to get by,some weeks I earn less than I did on benefits.

Regarding the walking,the worst thing you can do with Arthritis is to stop exercising,keep going as long as you can.,but in moderation.

I can't walk up/down hills anymore one of my favourite things to do,I take the dogs walks to places where they can run around and have fun and I don't have to walk far,or there are plenty of places to sit.
Today they haven't been out at all,but we have had a few games and training,but mainly they have slept along with me.

Not sure what the point of this reply is really,I can see it from both sides.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> *I do understand what you are saying & there are probably certain ailments/conditions when this is dangerous but in some cases (mine obviously) my physio told me that some exercises would have me in tears, some would be painful & at times I would feel like giving up but I did need to work through this .... & he was right!*
> 
> As I said, the thought of not paying my mortgage spurs me on & I do just have to get on with things (although as I said in previous posts Im in no way thinking I have pain like some!). To not push myself would see us lose our home & everything that went with it .... I don't want that to happen so I work & push myself


I think this is where the worry for me is, the assumption that 'probably certain conditions' you should not push yourself with, there is no probably about it, there are absolutely conditions which you absolutely should not be pushing yourself with (forgive me if I seem pedantic picking up on one word like this, but it feels symbolic of the bigger picture). There are conditions that pushing oneself is extremely dangerous (it's also worth mentioning that some people are so ill that pushing themselves is simply not an option to begin with).

For your condition pushing through the pain is for the best - that does not mean that the same is true for others. In this case, the OP has said she pushes herself through agonising pain in order to keep moving as that is very important for her condition. Hence, she uses walking the dogs as a way of staying active.

I guess one thing about this thread which bothers me is that the OP _is pushing herself_, and yet whatever she does seems to be getting a bad reaction from some posters.

She gets up, even though as she states her mobility is very bad first thing, she pushes through to keep her condition under control, she walks through pain, she is trying to create a situation where one day she may be able to earn a living as best she can ie in a self employed job that she can be flexible with the hours, and her case load, and yet, there still seems to be a lot of resentment towards the OP.

From what I have read the OP is not just sitting around feeling sorry for herself, but going out there and trying to keep going. She is not one of these people who is not pushing herself, when she could be doing so.

It's almost as though, because she loves dogs and would enjoy being a dog trainer, people resent that she is trying to do that. As though because 'we pay for your benefits with our taxes', she should be doing a job she hates as a penance for getting the help she is entitled to.

To me, trying to set up a business of your own, where the OP can negotiate the hours she works, is a great idea. It's moving her life forward, it's not "giving in" to the pain, and yet it's still being sensible and taking her illness seriously and accepting that she isn't able to have a normal job like others.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sezeelson said:


> Really?
> I honestly don't understand why people are comparing owning a dog to working..? Please enlighten me?
> 
> Wait, what jobs have been suggested? I've only seen the working at the till so must have missed them??
> ...


I am not comparing owning *a* dog to working, I am just saying if someone is able to own *four* dogs - and can do all the physical and manual work that comes with exercising, training and generally taking care of them - then I personally am struggling to see how ALL jobs are out of the equation. There has been several jobs mentioned throughout the thread, the checkout one which you said you cannot do. School lunchtime assistants were mentioned somewhere - an hour a day, in the middle of the day? Office work has been mentioned too.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> Really?
> I honestly don't understand why people are comparing owning a dog to working..? Please enlighten me?


Both require a routine, both require one to be up and about on a daily basis...

In addition, we all know that dogs are both physically and mentally demanding, at times even draining. The same can't be said for most office jobs!

In truth no, they're not comparable really, however there are elements to dog ownership that require much the same abilities as most minimum wage jobs would.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

SixStar said:


> I am not comparing owning *a* dog to working, I am just saying if someone is able to own *four* dogs - and can do all the physical and manual work that comes with exercising, training and generally taking care of them - then I personally am struggling to see how ALL jobs are out of the equation. There has been several jobs mentioned throughout the thread, the checkout one which you said you cannot do. *School lunchtime assistants were mentioned somewhere - an hour a day, in the middle of the day? Office work has been mentioned too*.


I see what you are saying with certain jobs Sixstar, but how many of these jobs are available? What is the statistic? Something like 5 people for every 1 available job, and that's all jobs. How many jobs are available that would fit the very specific criteria for the OP? And even if by some chance she found one, within traveling distance to where she lives, that choose her over someone who is not suffering with her health issues... what happens on a bad day? On a day where she can not get out of bed at all for the pain? How long would her employers carry on giving her sick days before she lost the job? Even an hour a day as a lunch time receptionist is too much for someone who cannot get out of bed.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

SixStar said:


> I am not comparing owning *a* dog to working, I am just saying if someone is able to own *four* dogs - and can do all the physical and manual work that comes with exercising, training and generally taking care of them - then I personally am struggling to see how ALL jobs are out of the equation. There has been several jobs mentioned throughout the thread, the checkout one which you said you cannot do. School lunchtime assistants were mentioned somewhere - an hour a day, in the middle of the day? Office work has been mentioned too.


The OP has stated SEVERAL TIMES that she does not own 4 dogs, nor that she is solely responsible for their training or exercise. :frown2:


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think topics involving benefits always gets a mixed response... I can understand both sides of it. 

My mum has been on benefits for 20 years. When I was 4, she was diagnosed with MS. Thankfully it isn't as bad as it could be, but she still suffers with it. When I was younger she used to have to used a wheelchair when we went out anywhere. We also had to move house into a ground floor flat because she found the stairs too tiring. She can't do any high impact activity, but does make sure she goes to the gym for fitness... she only does aqua or yoga classes though because she can manage those, but if there is any specific movement in those classes she just misses that out. She gets tired a lot, and sometimes even simple things, she needs to take rests and breaks before starting again... she had worked right from leaving school until she was diagnosed (which would make it 16 years she worked for). I don't really discuss my mums benefits with her, but my dad works so it is his wage that has supported the family. 

My dad is another one... he is still working now, but is due to retire in December. I don't think he should be working though. He has kidney failure, and is now on dialysis, he has had a few complications and he is currently suffering badly from excess fluid... he doesn't like to admit it, but he struggles with work. He is SO tired because of it, and he does peritoneal dialysis which is done overnight, and that sometimes keeps him up with doesn't help... he is muddling along though because it is so close until he retires (if he uses all his holidays then he will finish at the end of November). Seeing how he is, I can't see how people can easily work while on dialysis, or at least at the beginning stages when they are still trying to work out the balance etc. 

I am also close to someone who has severe mental health issues, and I do get annoyed when people don't fully understand mental health issues but choose to comment... however, I also agree that all too often labels are bandied about... It seems all to easy to go to the doctor pick up a label and some tablets and then they are 'diagnosed'. Of course not all mental health issues are like that (my cousin has bipolar and hers was a long process and involved numerous hospitalisations) but I know a few people who just felt a bit down, popped to the doctors and came out with a prescription... 

The person I am close to, well he does suffer badly and he has ups and downs... but he still manages to do a demanding job, and his job has actually helped him a lot. He previously did a job he hated, and he very nearly had a break down... so he left before that happened... he then found his current job, and is doing much better. His job makes him feel worthwhile, that he is actually doing something good with his life and everything isn't just pointless... so that does wonders for him. He still suffers badly and he REALLY struggles but he does just carry on - he has that in his personality though. He is on medication which helps... it doesn't 'fix' the problem and he still has tough times, but it does help. If he misses just one day of medication, then it is clear he has - and I can often notice it just through texts. 

It is a very difficult situation to judge whether someone can or can not work... I guess that is why people get annoyed because so many people do play the system. But we have to trust the professionals involved... 

As for what people spend their money on... I don't like to judge or tell people what they can and can't spend their money on - it isn't my place to any way... however, I cannot stand when people spend it all on drink... which makes me sound very hypocritical but I can't help it... that is just how I feel...


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> I have tried to reply to this thread a few times tonight and keep deleting my replies before sending.
> 
> My initial response to this thread was shock that someone preferred to be on benefits than work,although I read the OP's thread incorrectly.
> 
> ...


I can definitely see it from both sides 
The only thing I'm confused about is people comparing owning a dog to working?

I've done both and they couldn't be more different?

I lived alone for the majority of my older life, and I also have learned to prioritise what I have in my life. Which isn't much, but it works.

I make dog ownership work for me and it does, I have large breeds because Rossi just happened to be big and because I need a dog of size and weight to physically support me


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Alice Childress said:


> I think this is where the worry for me is, the assumption that 'probably certain conditions' you should not push yourself with, there is no probably about it, there are absolutely conditions which you absolutely should not be pushing yourself with (forgive me if I seem pedantic picking up on one word like this, but it feels symbolic of the bigger picture). There are conditions that pushing oneself is extremely dangerous (it's also worth mentioning that some people are so ill that pushing themselves is simply not an option to begin with).
> 
> For your condition pushing through the pain is for the best - that does not mean that the same is true for others. In this case, the OP has said she pushes herself through agonising pain in order to keep moving as that is very important for her condition. Hence, she uses walking the dogs as a way of staying active.
> 
> ...


My condition is also bad first thing. As my discs bulge out of their normal position while I am at rest (lying horizontally), when I get up & stand this is when I experience the most pain. Unfortunately I do have to get on with it, why can you not understand that many people like me (& those with far worse conditions) simply have to push ourselves? We have bills to pay & therefore no choice in our lives but to do this :confused5:

It's not about being resenting a person for looking to their dreams (I've said as much to the OP) at all but more about hearing that a person can push themselves for certain things but not others.

I believe we should all push ourselves in life, whether it's physically, mentally or whatever, to experience all we can. It's far too easy to sit back with an 'I cant' attitude yet that's what seems to be promoted now... IMO obviously!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> My condition is also bad first thing. As my discs bulge out of their normal position while I am at rest (lying horizontally), when I get up & stand this is when I experience the most pain. Unfortunately I do have to get on with it, why can you not understand that many people like me (& those with far worse conditions) simply have to push ourselves? We have bills to pay & therefore no choice in our lives but to do this :confused5:
> 
> It's not about being resenting a person for looking to their dreams (I've said as much to the OP) at all but more about hearing that a person can push themselves for certain things but not others.
> 
> I believe we should all push ourselves in life, whether it's physically, mentally or whatever, to experience all we can. It's far too easy to sit back with an 'I cant' attitude yet that's what seems to be promoted now... IMO obviously!


Not 'liked' for the pain you are in obviously, but for the points you make. I, too, am struggling to see how some are unable to see that just getting on with it is the only option for some. What on earth did people apparently do before benefits?!


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

SixStar said:


> I am not comparing owning *a* dog to working, I am just saying if someone is able to own *four* dogs - and can do all the physical and manual work that comes with exercising, training and generally taking care of them - then I personally am struggling to see how ALL jobs are out of the equation. There has been several jobs mentioned throughout the thread, the checkout one which you said you cannot do. School lunchtime assistants were mentioned somewhere - an hour a day, in the middle of the day? Office work has been mentioned too.


Refer to lurchlads comment.

Again I've said it time and time again... I have taken every work opportunity I have been offered, even unpaid work. I've had lots of interviews for almost every job going and even had trials but never been hired... How exactly do you read that as me refusing to work???


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

SixStar said:


> Not 'liked' for the pain you are in obviously, but for the points you make. I, too, am struggling to see how some are unable to see that just getting on with it is the only option for some. What on earth did people apparently do before benefits?!


Some died, some were completely reliant on family members, some found something they could make some money at and relied on other people for everything else...I suppose things like workhouses were an option.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Save your breath OP 

You've given a good account of yourself - if others can't get their heads around it - what can you do? You are on a hiding to nothing on here 

Keep positive


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

tabulahrasa said:


> Some died, some were completely reliant on family members, some found something they could make some money at and relied on other people for everything else...I suppose things like workhouses were an option.


And some just knuckled down and got on with it, dragging themselves to work everyday because they _had_ to!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> I honestly don't understand why people are comparing owning a dog to working..? Please enlighten me?


I guess because of the amount of time and energy spent looking after them - and that energy could be used to work instead

If you have tried to find work & genuinely can't then I have absolutely no problem with you receiving benefits BUT I do have a problem with the system ..... it's not logical and it doesn't treat people equally 

As previously said, some people on benefits really struggle & many have to choose to "eat or heat" and often rely on things like food banks to feed their families .... so how can others afford pets / new cars / the latest TV / mobile / holidays etc ?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> I can definitely see it from both sides
> The only thing I'm confused about is people comparing owning a dog to working?
> 
> I've done both and they couldn't be more different?
> ...


It's not comparing working _specifically_ to owning multiple dogs. It's more the fact that having four of them means providing a lot of time consuming care. From a outside perspective, the idea of someone with severe mobility problems having not one but four larger breed dogs seems a little 'off'. Now that you have explained a bit more about your situation, obviously it's a bit more complex then that, plus the fact that two of them are technically not your own (but you presumably live with all of them?). But without knowing that information, I'm sure you can see why on the surface someone with four dogs (including a puppy) purchased on benefits might rile some people up the wrong way.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

SixStar said:


> And some just knuckled down and got on with it, dragging themselves to work everyday because they _had_ to!


There are some people I work with that are far worse than me & have literally become morphine addicts due to their medication & dependency. One man I work with (again back problems) is going through managed drug withdrawal & is having a terrible time. I stopped taking my prescribed mediation after speaking with him as I didn't want to end up in that way


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

SixStar said:


> And some just knuckled down and got on with it, dragging themselves to work everyday because they _had_ to!


and some still do that - it doesn't make those unable to do so suddenly more able to.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Not 'liked' for the pain you are in obviously, but for the points you make. I, too, am struggling to see how some are unable to see that just getting on with it is the only option for some. What on earth did people apparently do before benefits?!


So why can't you just accept that I can't just get on with it then? Why can't you accept how hard I have tried to get a job and that I haven't chosen not to work...

Like I said before, the benefits don't influence my working life and if benefits didn't exist I'd be (hopefully) in the same position but with no money.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

The OP has tried to work. She's mentioned this several times. Look at her posts.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> And just out of interest - how many people who think dogs are a luxury, or that money from taxes should not go to pay benefits so that people can keep dogs, are happy to blithely hold their hand out for their child benefit every week? If you think our taxes shouldn't go in benefits to people who want to keep dogs, how do you justify our taxes going in benefits to people who want to have kids? No difference imo.


Dogs are a luxury, even though we all feel they're essential! I think having kids is also a luxury, and if people want them, they should be able to pay for them out of their own pockets HOWEVER the essential difference between dogs and children is that one day, the children will (hopefully) become taxpayers and contribute to the system. Dogs will not.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Burrowzig said:


> I think having kids is also a luxury, and if people want them, they should be able to pay for them out of their own pockets


And isn't that the truth! Could not agree more. A debate for another day perhaps though


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> I can definitely see it from both sides
> The only thing I'm confused about is people comparing owning a dog to working?
> 
> I've done both and they couldn't be more different?
> ...


I can only compare that my husband when he was ill last year was unable to cope with Molly alone. Molly demands care and needs to go out and therefore is a commitment in as much as job demands a commitment. To be honest, a day with my dog is as much effort as going to work, sitting at a desk designing, but maybe that's down to the dog and the individual.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> Dogs are a luxury, even though we all feel they're essential! I think having kids is also a luxury, and if people want them, they should be able to pay for them out of their own pockets HOWEVER the essential difference between dogs and children is that one day, the children will (hopefully) become taxpayers and contribute to the system. Dogs will not.


A debate for another day (from someone who is childless not by choice, it's not one I'll contribute to though)


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

slaps forehead .............


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sezeelson said:


> So why can't you just accept that I can't just get on with it then? Why can't you accept how hard I have tried to get a job and that I haven't chosen not to work...
> 
> Like I said before, the benefits don't influence my working life and if benefits didn't exist I'd be (hopefully) in the same position but with no money.


Providing you are still actively and meaningfully seeking employment, then I have no problem. But I am confused with the contradiction - you're either able, willing and seeking work (like you say) or unable to cope with a job (which you also say). Which is it?


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## BenBoy (Aug 31, 2013)

There are 46,837 jobs available in West Sussex


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

labradrk said:


> It's not comparing working _specifically_ to owning multiple dogs. It's more the fact that having four of them means providing a lot of time consuming care. From a outside perspective, the idea of someone with severe mobility problems having not one but four larger breed dogs seems a little 'off'. Now that you have explained a bit more about your situation, obviously it's a bit more complex then that, plus the fact that two of them are technically not your own (but you presumably live with all of them?). But without knowing that information, I'm sure you can see why on the surface someone with four dogs (including a puppy) purchased on benefits might rile some people up the wrong way.


No the pup wasn't purchased with benefits 

I never expected everyone to agree, just didn't expect to be slandered for being out of work with a disability.

Why does living with them make any difference? Yes scooby lives under the same roof but i do nothing for him on a daily basis? He is someone else's responsibility.

Raven just goes with the flow and I do what I can to give her a good quality of life after being abandoned by my mum. I don't need to go out of my way for her, she is an old gal and doesn't expect much bless her.

Again Runa was purchased for a reason because I need an assistance dog which Rossi just isn't reliably performing for me. She has to be of a certain size or it would be unsafe to use her as an assistance dog. She is such an easy pup, I really struggled at first but now my routine is essentially back to normal.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Not 'liked' for the pain you are in obviously, but for the points you make. I, too, am struggling to see how some are unable to see that just getting on with it is the only option for some. What on earth did people apparently do before benefits?!


British social policy 1601-1948


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Wow... Just, wow! 

I am going to keep my mouth relatively shut. 

BUT! I do feel that if you want to find fault, regardless of mobility, you will. 

I completely get why people are asking about the fact that you own two/four dogs -whatever, it's irrelevant- and can't do even basic work. 

I too am training to be a dog behaviourist. I work full time in order to care for my two dogs, pay rent and other expenses/bills and pay for my training. I volunteer at rescue centres in my -very limited- spare time in order to gain experience. If you struggle as much as you say (which must be awful) how are you going to gain the experience you need in order to be a behaviourist/trainer? Because, I hope you know, that you can't just do a theory course and automatically become a professional. It requires so much physically and mentally demanding work. 

This isn't a critisism, nearly an observation of the thread on my part. 

I just don't know where I stand... 

There's always going to be arguments for and against. 

That is all


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Don't know how to phrase this really but I think it's important to mention here that mental or physical illness and disabilities should never be seen as exclusively a reason not to work. I think it undermines the sufferer totally for society to willingly 'write' them off as incapable. 

However, it is also important to remember that 'getting on with it' is not particularly a helpful way to go about dealing with illness if it means the sufferer is ignoring the signs or getting worse. Just as with physical illness, symptoms of mental illness do not normally just 'go away' without medical intervention.

Perhaps the disadvantage to living in a society where help is available to those who need it is that there will always be those who take the p!ss. However, I would far rather live here than in a society that doesn't recognise disabled people or worse, treats them like lesser human beings.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Providing you are still actively and meaningfully seeking employment, then I have no problem. But I am confused with the contradiction - you're either able, willing and seeking work (like you say) or unable to cope with a job (which you also say). Which is it?


Why you being like this? 

I can't cope with a 'typical' job. But I want to work and I'm still trying incase something comes up. I'm still looking and regularly check but I have to disregard the jobs I know I cannot do.

Right now my priority is getting my courses complete and working on my physical & mental health.

Maybe I'm being targeted because I'm young? Therefor must be lazy? I'm not sure but my age has already been mentioned in this. Or is purely because I have pets?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

sezeelson said:


> No the pup wasn't purchased with benefits
> 
> I never expected everyone to agree, just didn't expect to be slandered for being out of work with a disability.
> 
> ...


Ok so Runa was purchased by your mum? but your mum abandoned Raven? so she is presumably helping out with Runa's care (?) but she 'abandoned' Raven with you? she kicked you out when you were 15 but you are now back living with her? confused.com.....

Why didn't you use Dogs for the Disabled or Canine Partners for an assistance dog? just curious as I would presume you'd qualify.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sezeelson said:


> Why you being like this?
> 
> I can't cope with a 'typical' job. But I want to work and I'm still trying incase something comes up. I'm still looking and regularly check but I have to disregard the jobs I know I cannot do.
> 
> ...


Age has nothing to do with it. Bowing out of this now as we'll never get anywhere with this one - I wish you well in whatever you do.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Lauren5159 said:


> Wow... Just, wow!
> 
> I am going to keep my mouth relatively shut.
> 
> ...


My obedience trainer for Rossi allows me to sit in on her behaviour classes  I'm also getting myself down to a kennels so I can meet new dogs and gain experience that way.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Age has nothing to do with it. Bowing out of this now as we'll never get anywhere with this one - I wish you well in whatever you do.


Don't lie! You don't give a toss


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Don't know how to phrase this really but I think it's important to mention here that mental or physical illness and disabilities should never be seen as exclusively a reason not to work. I think it undermines the sufferer totally for society to willingly 'write' them off as incapable.
> 
> *However, it is also important to remember that 'getting on with it' is not particularly a helpful way to go about dealing with illness if it means the sufferer is ignoring the signs or getting worse*. Just as with physical illness, symptoms of mental illness do not normally just 'go away' without medical intervention.
> 
> Perhaps the disadvantage to living in a society where help is available to those who need it is that there will always be those who take the p!ss. However, I would far rather live here than in a society that doesn't recognise disabled people or worse, treats them like lesser human beings.


I completely agree with you but I do know of people (in my office) who this applies to & this is probably representative across many work places

People DO GET ON WITH IT when they have obligations to fulfil - rightly or wrongly


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Am I alone in thinking that the picture thread was a lovely thing, and now this :frown2:


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## BenBoy (Aug 31, 2013)

This thread was destined for this from the very beginning


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

bearcub said:


> However, it is also important to remember that 'getting on with it' is not particularly a helpful way to go about dealing with illness if it means the sufferer is ignoring the signs or getting worse. Just as with physical illness, symptoms of mental illness do not normally just 'go away' without medical intervention.


Indeed. I 'just got on with it' but whilst working full-time and living alone (after having what was essentially a nervous breakdown) I started collapsing at work and this then progressed to full-blown seizures. 

Sometimes you actually bloomin' well _need_ to stop and recover from what has happened to you. I wish I had. Because ironically had I taken some time off to recover rather than just 'getting on with it' I wouldn't have ended up being off work (and on benefits!) for over a year.......  .......... never mind the damage done to me that has stayed with me permanently.

Before I get jumped on; let me make this clear: I was eligible for DLA and I got it - I was really poorly - I was in a wheelchair because I was so weak and tired all the time never mind various other problems I had on top of the multiple seizures I was experiencing. But suddenly I started to feel better. And gradually, gradually I did get better. Now I was _legally entitled_ to receive DLA for 3 years regardless. But when I started to recover I wrote to the DLA and asked them to cancel my benefits because I wanted to get a job and didn't feel right receiving the benefits now I was feeling better.(I had moved back home when I was poorly as I couldn't afford / wasn't safe to live alone.)

I got a very shocked telephone call from a lady at the DLA who said she was amazed to receive my letter - she said I didn't have to stop receiving benefit - but she really respected my decision if I was sure. I bet she had to lie down for a while after that call lol. 

I got a job part-time and am still in that job. I will always be grateful to my employer for taking me on as I am well aware that they took a risk in taking me on post-sickness.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I completely agree with you but I do know of people (in my office) who this applies to & this is probably representative across many work places
> 
> People DO GET ON WITH IT when they have obligations to fulfil - rightly or wrongly


Really not sure what you've gauged from my post - I specifically pointed out that disability and illness should never automatically mean that someone can't fulfill their obligations by going to work.

If people do choose to ignore their symptoms it's their prerogative, but in some cases I'm certain something that they could come to regret in time.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

SixStar said:


> What on earth did people apparently do before benefits?!


The workhouse. 

oh, and prostitution.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Ok so Runa was purchased by your mum? but your mum abandoned Raven? so she is presumably helping out with Runa's care (?) but she 'abandoned' Raven with you? she kicked you out when you were 15 but you are now back living with her? confused.com.....
> 
> Why didn't you use Dogs for the Disabled or Canine Partners for an assistance dog? just curious as I would presume you'd qualify.


There waiting lists are terribly long and whether I would qualify or not I feel there are people much more deserving then I am.

Yes and just sorta got by until I rented a flat with my sister but after a year she pushed me out and wanted the flat to herself. I had a very bad episode and ended up in hospital and I wasn't allowed to leave on my own and had to be supervised in the home so she took me back in. 
I'm not going into detail about my mum :/ raven was brought as a family pet when we were all together. During which time the parents split, we all moved, the older sisters parted ways. Living near my nan and grandad (who had just lost their dog  ) they decided to walk raven and did so every day for a few years. 
They are to old and my mum never took over responsibility so it fell on me to care for her.

Before getting Runa, mum seemed a lot better and was caring/walking raven before we even discussed another dog. Yes, I'm happy to admit I'm stupid for falling for it again, but it's not as straight forward as that.

I still receive help from my sisters and ex for the upbringing of my dogs and they get all they need when I'm bed ridden.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

You know something I cant believe some of the nasty comments on this thread there is an old saying walk in the other persons shoes before you judge them


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> Am I alone in thinking that the picture thread was a lovely thing, and now this :frown2:





BenBoy said:


> This thread was destined for this from the very beginning


Sorry 

Can I request this thread be closed / left to die please!

I think enough has been said


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> OMG, that sounds terrible!
> 
> Wasn't it cinnamontoast who was kicked by horse (resulting in such a horrific leg injury - one of the most dreadful pics I have ever seen!) & walked to meet the ambulance with her leg in pieces?
> 
> Probably complete shock or she was just incredibly resilient - not sure!





ouesi said:


> I think the fact that you are a horse person makes you abnormal LOL.
> I've broken a collarbone and went on to ride a full cross-country course. I'm still not sure how I did that, the bone wasn't set and dug in to me leaving terrible bruising that eventually turned all sorts of pretty colors and drained down to my boob. Every day I'd wake up to a different colored boob LOL!
> 
> But really it all comes down to the individual, which is why there will never be a way to decide what is "fair" when it comes to benefits and who should get them.


You are right, having horses is definitely an abnormality and a lot of horse people struggle round in great pain a lot of the time.



sezeelson said:


> Really?
> I honestly don't understand why people are comparing owning a dog to working..? Please enlighten me?
> 
> Wait, what jobs have been suggested? I've only seen the working at the till so must have missed them??
> ...


I had had sympathy for you but this is too contradictory. You live at home, your family look after you so why would you be homeless without benefits.

One thing this post is bringing home to me is the number of people that are struggling with physical disabilities and pain and how very lucky I am. For years I was in constant pain with my back, I lived with it and I got on with things but I was so lucky not to have to go out to work. I could work on the farm at my own pace and if I could not do anything for a day or two I have a wonderful husband who would do it for me. I have learned my limitations eventually - it only took about 25 years . Now, with care, I am not in that dreadful constant pain, just a bit of discomfort that warns me to be more careful and the odd bad episode. If I had had to go out to work I really dont know what I would have done. I did have the odd part time and occasional job but if I worked for a few days I was stuffed so eventually just learned to do what I could at home. I try not to think about what I could have done, sometimes I just think I am a wimp and push myself a bit harder but each time I do that I learn the hard way.
We have never had much money but we have had a great life and spent what little we have on what we want to spend it on.
Having said that though, if we needed benefits and qualified I would have seen nothing wrong in it.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Really not sure what you've gauged from my post - I specifically pointed out that disability and illness should never automatically mean that someone can't fulfill their obligations by going to work.
> 
> If people do choose to ignore their symptoms it's their prerogative, but in some cases I'm certain something that they could come to regret in time.


I did gauge your post but IME what do do? wait around & look at benefits?

As I said, I am the sole wage earner at the moment (due to my OH being in construction & being hit by the recession) ... I have a choice; ignore my symptoms, go to & receive a wage ...... or note my symptoms, recognise that I can no longer do certain things & jack in my job, get another at a reduced income & lose our house.... Yes, it's thats simple for a lot of us!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> Sorry
> 
> Can I request this thread be closed / left to die please!
> 
> I think enough has been said


Contact the mods. They will close it.

I don't know who's on at the mo though


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

bearcub said:


> However, it is also important to remember that 'getting on with it' is not particularly a helpful way to go about dealing with illness if it means the sufferer is ignoring the signs or getting worse. .


But in RL not everyone has the luxury of just deciding to stop work and hope for the best

I've been told to give up work BUT I'm single so do I give it up, let my house be repossessed' the pets & I all made homeless?

Sorry but that's just not something I could bring myself to do - so like many thousands of others .... I get on with it - yes my health is worsenng but what else can I do?

Everything (friends, social life etc) aside from looking after the pets & work has gone as there's no energy for them BUT that's life, it sucks sometimes but you do what you need to to survive as best as you can


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