# Colour-point bunnies



## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I recently got an piece of artwork done in which the subject is an anime human/bunny type thing. When discussing colours, the artist suggested brown colour-point or spotted grey. To which I thought 'colour-pointed bunnies?!'. I Googled and OMG THEY ARE ADORABLE!!

So, now for the genetics. Are CP buns as rare as CP cats - as in, do you need both parents to carry the CP gene?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Lil Miss is the one to answer this


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't know anything about genetics but was wondering this the other day. Gaga has what I would call 'colour points', but would she be counted as such, as I know she's technically a 'sooty fawn'? Is the term 'colourpoint' relevant to bunnies like it is to cats?

Here's my beautiful Sooty Fawn lady :001_wub:









I don't think they're uncommon as a colour- I've come across quite a few...


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I dunno if you'd call them CP, I only said that just cus it's similar to cats. So maybe Sooty is the right term then?


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

My George is a siamese sable colour. He does change through various shades of grey/brown with each moult though.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> I dunno if you'd call them CP, I only said that just cus it's similar to cats. So maybe Sooty is the right term then?


I'm not sure  Like I say, I was wondering about terminology the other day, too- great minds think (or this case: muse) alike and all that


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Kammie said:


> My George is a siamese sable colour. He does change through various shades of grey/brown with each moult though.


Ah! He's gorgeous!! :001_wub: In the case of cats (if it's the same for rabbits), he'd be a good example of a CP with his colour pointed feet :w00t:

Spooks is his kitty twin:


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Loving all these pics of bunnies :001_wub:

These are my bunnies


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## Zow (Sep 18, 2012)

Hector is beige, so he's a light tan all over with lilac-y silver around his bottom half, ears, & face, but he has this spot of brown on his nose:









I think it comes from his mum, because she was a chocolate point and his dad was a beige


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> I recently got an piece of artwork done in which the subject is an anime human/bunny type thing. When discussing colours, the artist suggested brown colour-point or spotted grey. To which I thought 'colour-pointed bunnies?!'. I Googled and OMG THEY ARE ADORABLE!!
> 
> *So, now for the genetics. Are CP buns as rare as CP cats - as in, do you need both parents to carry the CP gene?*


depends which colour you are talking about 
We have the Sable point, lilac point, Siamese sable and so on 

The colour itself is not rare, a good example of the colour is 

In the Sable point, Lilac point, blue point or chocolate point the "ee" gene is responsible. Both parents have to carry this to produce points.

When it comes to himi's it is down to the c(h) gene, c(h)= himi (himalayan) The himalayan is a pointed rabbit. It is only one step above a ruby eyed white. All the color has been removed except at the points. The possible combinations are:

c(h)c(h), c(h)c

To get the correct colored Himalayan, you must have both of the (ch) genes.
The only way to get a white rabbit is for the rabbit to carry both of the (c) genes.

As you can see all the genes involved are recessive so both parents will have to bring the gene to the mix to produce good examples rather than washed out versions or just carriers.
Due to the fact that they are all recessive genes the colours can pop up into breeding programmes at any stage is two carriers are bought together.

Yet another reason why I think all breeders should have a least a basic grasp on the genetics involved with the colours/breed they wish to produce so that there won't be any surprises, but these days it is more about throwing two rabbits together to produce cute babies


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> depends which colour you are talking about
> We have the Sable point, lilac point, Siamese sable and so on
> 
> The colour itself is not rare, a good example of the colour is
> ...


Sorry B3rnie, I've only just seen this reply 

So essentially it's the same in rabbits as it is in cats - both parents must at least be a carrier for the colour can crop up. Are rabbits not bred for colour in the same way as cats are? I take it from your reply not many breeders have a good knowledge of genetics?


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> Sorry B3rnie, I've only just seen this reply
> 
> So essentially it's the same in rabbits as it is in cats - both parents must at least be a carrier for the colour can crop up. Are rabbits not bred for colour in the same way as cats are? I take it from your reply not many breeders have a good knowledge of genetics?


Rabbits are only really bred for colour (well) within the show circuit, people that breed to show are the only people that seem to care about genetics because for them they obviously need to know what colours they will produce to minimise the risk of producing unshowable colours.

I normally find that the trend is, just stick two bunnies together and lets see what we get  At the moment VM (Vienna Marked) or "Dutch split" (hate that term with a passion) is the colour of the hour which is very frustrating because the only place for VM's is in a BEW breeding programe but because some VM's have partial or full blue eyes they are being bred like crazy


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Rabbits are only really bred for colour (well) within the show circuit, people that breed to show are the only people that seem to care about genetics because for them they obviously need to know what colours they will produce to minimise the risk of producing unshowable colours.
> 
> I normally find that the trend is, just stick two bunnies together and lets see what we get  At the moment VM (Vienna Marked) or "Dutch split" (hate that term with a passion) is the colour of the hour which is very frustrating because the only place for VM's is in a BEW breeding programe but because some VM's have partial or full blue eyes they are being bred like crazy


Ohh dear, that's not good  I didn't know you could show rabbits though, is it a big thing or are there relatively few showers? Also, would I be right in assuming pedigree bunnies (is that right?) are more expensive than bunnies bred for the sake of it, because of the time, effort and dedication that's gone into it?


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> Ohh dear, that's not good  I didn't know you could show rabbits though, is it a big thing or are there relatively few showers? Also, would I be right in assuming pedigree bunnies (is that right?) are more expensive than bunnies bred for the sake of it, because of the time, effort and dedication that's gone into it?


Showing is quite big in the rabbit world but completely separate from the pet industry (many pet owners would recoil in horror (myself included) at some of the things that happen).

Strangely enough you will probably find it is completely opposite to your thinking with regards to show bred/pet bred prices. 
Showable rabbits normally get passed between breeders, they will either swap or pay a small fee to help keep their lines moving and when moving on a proven doe/buck it helps an up and coming breeder to start their line (rather than having to start from scratch) but when unshowable kits are born they are then sold to pet homes (if they are lucky ) for a fee of around £20-£30 (even rare breeds are sold for reasonable prices but due to them being rare they are very hard to come by).
Whereas the pet market will use any "rare" thing they can to bump the price up, hence why the VM rabbits are being bred because people can do the "Well he/she does have very rare markings so obviously I will sell for more"  Another example is the giants, from a good breeder you are looking around £40 for these guys, whereas in a petshop they are £120 and I've seen them listed on PL/gumtree and the like for similar amounts.....

Soooo to sum up, a well bred rabbit will probably cost you much less than a petshop/pet breeder will... The designer dog thing (huge prices for cross breeds) has spread to the bunny world 

Sorry to ramble on then, this is something close to my heart


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Showing is quite big in the rabbit world but completely separate from the pet industry (many pet owners would recoil in horror (myself included) at some of the things that happen).
> 
> Strangely enough you will probably find it is completely opposite to your thinking with regards to show bred/pet bred prices.
> Showable rabbits normally get passed between breeders, they will either swap or pay a small fee to help keep their lines moving and when moving on a proven doe/buck it helps an up and coming breeder to start their line (rather than having to start from scratch) but when unshowable kits are born they are then sold to pet homes (if they are lucky ) for a fee of around £20-£30 (even rare breeds are sold for reasonable prices but due to them being rare they are very hard to come by).
> ...


No, not at all, ramble away, I'm learning a lot!

So what happens if unshowable kits aren't sold as pets? Or do I not want to know? :scared:

Do you show/breed yourself? Are there any health tests involved with breeding in the same way as there are with dogs and cats?


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> No, not at all, ramble away, I'm learning a lot!
> 
> So what happens if unshowable kits aren't sold as pets? Or do I not want to know? :scared:
> 
> ...


My answers are in red :thumbup:


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies Bernie, they've been really helpful and educational


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## vet-2-b (Sep 25, 2008)

my little poppy is a CP she came from a breeder (originaly, i bought her off the owner) who was the owners sister she has fluffy ears and is on the large side so i belive she wasnt up to show standard and therefore sold as pet but she has an amazing personality  i have no problem with breeders selling non-show bunnies on as long as the rabbits dont suffer but most are sold on as loveing pets such as poppy.My other bun is also from a show breeder he did meet show standard but i didnt fancy showing


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

My internet's being so slow so the pic won't load properly so all I can see atm are fluffy ears! From what I can see though, that looks like a supercute bunny :001_wub:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

very cute bunnie indeed


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## andrea84 (Aug 16, 2012)

what a beautiful bunny she is  so fluffy, does she take a lot of grooming? (never had a long haired bun before)


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## andrea84 (Aug 16, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> Thanks for all your replies Bernie, they've been really helpful and educational


i agree im learning more and more every day! its brill :thumbup:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Rabbits are only really bred for colour (well) within the show circuit, people that breed to show are the only people that seem to care about genetics because for them they obviously need to know what colours they will produce to minimise the risk of producing unshowable colours.
> 
> I normally find that the trend is, just stick two bunnies together and lets see what we get  *At the moment VM (Vienna Marked) or "Dutch split" (hate that term with a passion)* is the colour of the hour which is very frustrating because the only place for VM's is in a BEW breeding programe but because some VM's have partial or full blue eyes they are being bred like crazy


Interestingly, I've noticed a lot of these markings in pet shops (saw one in [email protected] just the other day) in the last few months. Must be why


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree with the "not suitable to show" from breeders, being sold off for less than alot of pet shops etc. 
My Frenchies -Darwin, Kimba and Jana- all came from the same show breeder (Frags who used to be on here) 
Darwin was unsuitable to show because of the white on his nose.
Kimba was unsuitable because she was the runt and would never make the weight needed, although she is a lovely BEW 
and Jana was unsuitable to show because she is a broken butterfly rather than a true butterfly. I think they are all gorgeous! 
For all 3 I paid a total of £90. It was £30 for Kimba because she wasn't to be bred from (she should have been £80 if she was going to a breeding home) Darwin was £40 because he could have been used/sold for breeding as he carries the BEW gene and Jana (after alot of heartbreak with the litter and bloat) she sold to me for £20 (well she wanted nothing) as she was struggling to find them homes and knew she would do well here  I did travel 2 1/2 hours each way twice for them, lol.


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

Zow said:


> Hector is beige, so he's a light tan all over with lilac-y silver around his bottom half, ears, & face, but he has this spot of brown on his nose:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trixie has colours like that!


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Ohh I just love bunnies, I can't wait to have my own again :001_wub:


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## vet-2-b (Sep 25, 2008)

andrea84 said:


> what a beautiful bunny she is  so fluffy, does she take a lot of grooming? (never had a long haired bun before)


i do a quick groom every day or 2 as hay/poo/litter gets in her coat and if you dont get it out soon it matts and stains her coat but its well worth it as shes a little character lol she'd sit on my knee for hours if she could lol


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## andrea84 (Aug 16, 2012)

vet-2-b said:


> i do a quick groom every day or 2 as hay/poo/litter gets in her coat and if you dont get it out soon it matts and stains her coat but its well worth it as shes a little character lol she'd sit on my knee for hours if she could lol


aww bless her,she is very cute


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I just went into a pet shop and saw the markings Bernie was talking about. They were priced at E35, so not too expensive I would say. I like the colouring but not if it means there's over-breeding.


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