# James Bulger Killer Back Behind Bars



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Jon Venables one of the two boys responcible for James Bulgers murder is back behind bars.The thing that puzzles me is WHY wont they say why he is back in custody.Any thoughts?

James Bulger killer back behind bars | Jon Venables*


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I suppose it depens what his licence conditions whee, hebrkeon of tem so it could be that he looked after a child alone, or that he left the areawherehe ws living without telling his proation officer.....whatever the case hes boken it and will obviously pay the price.
There wasa hell of a lot ore to that story...a very sad case where a baby lost his life....and i think it will shock the world for years to come.
Clare xx


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

No ideas,the only thing the paper said was if the parole officers ever became concerned about a change in their behaviour or if they started taking drugs they would be recalled.

Personally I don't know why evil little b***ards like this were ever released and why are they protected? they don't deserve protection for what they did!
James Bulger's mother will never be released from her hell will she?

Izzie


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Izzie999 said:


> Hi,
> 
> No ideas,the only thing the paper said was if the parole officers ever became concerned about a change in their behaviour or if they started taking drugs they would be recalled.
> 
> ...


No you're quite right she won't and I agree with everything you say
However....where were the punishments for the childrens parents who committed the crime....well, one of them at least.
One of these kids had a developmental and mental delay, what the hell where his parents thinking of letting him out in the first place, even if he was playng truent from school it was their responsibility to get him there and the staff responsibility to keep him there, cant remeber if it was a school day or not but I do believe that if you know your child is mentally unstable then it is the responsibility of the parent to keep them in, I know what its like, my son has all sorts of things wrong with him and at times he cant contol his actions.....simple, I dont allow him out alone, it can be done, he is fifteen years old and course it would be easer for me to let him out but I boody well wont and I don't think for one minute he would do a thing like this
I just get angry over things like this,YES John venbles did wrong and yes he deserves the punishment he gets, but I also think his arents should have taken responsibility for what he did AS WELL.....if i read the case study right at the time they where p1ss heads who didnt give sh1t and this crime was avoidable
Clare xxx


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

I think the lack of details to the press is cos they need to protect his identity from fellow prisoners. 

At least the powers that be were keeping an eye on this monster.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> No you're quite right she won't and I agree with everything you say
> However....where were the punishments for the childrens parents who committed the crime....well, one of them at least.
> One of these kids had a developmental and mental delay, what the hell where his parents thinking of letting him out in the first place, even if he was playng truent from school it was their responsibility to get him there and the staff responsibility to keep him there, cant remeber if it was a school day or not but I do believe that if you know your child is mentally unstable then it is the responsibility of the parent to keep them in, I know what its like, my son has all sorts of things wrong with him and at times he cant contol his actions.....simple, I dont allow him out alone, it can be done, he is fifteen years old and course it would be easer for me to let him out but I boody well wont and I don't think for one minute he would do a thing like this
> I just get angry over things like this,YES John venbles did wrong and yes he deserves the punishment he gets, but I also think his arents should have taken responsibility for what he did AS WELL.....if i read the case study right at the time they where p1ss heads who didnt give sh1t and this crime was avoidable
> Clare xxx


Totally agree!

Yes they did a very evil thing, but they were only 10yrs old they must have had such a crappy upbringing to even think at 10yrs that anything like they did was ok to do. if you read about what they did it seems they didnt really have the totally understanding of what they were doing alot of what they did pointed towards the film "childs play" which they were allowed to watch.

I imagine hes on a tag system and isnt allowed out at certain times, it could be something simple as he was late home from a night out e.t.c that would make him have to go back to jail or it could be he didnt pay his council tax You will never know why hes back in

i dont agree with what the did at all, and feel they shouldnt ever have been let out of prison.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

No, I'm sorry I don't give a damn what film they watched and they used that as a defence. If a toddlers screams of pain and crying for his mum didn't stop them from torturing him and brutally murdering him, then -nothing- would have. They're nothing short of pure evil and the fact that they were ever released goes to show what a state our penal system is in. It's disgusting that they were released and that anyone actually campaigned for them to be released, absolutely disgusting. I think not being told what he did is to protect him from other prisoners (can't remember who said that sorry). 
x


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

It says that 2 of the conditions was that they stayed away from each other and they stay out of liverpool! Perhaps he went to liverpool or saw the other guy. Makes me so mad they got life but only did 8 years!!! Life should mean life!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Stephny691 said:


> No, I'm sorry I don't give a damn what film they watched and they used that as a defence. If a toddlers screams of pain and crying for his mum didn't stop them from torturing him and brutally murdering him, then -nothing- would have. They're nothing short of pure evil and the fact that they were ever released goes to show what a state our penal system is in. It's disgusting that they were released and that anyone actually campaigned for them to be released, absolutely disgusting. I think not being told what he did is to protect him from other prisoners (can't remember who said that sorry).
> x





HarryHamster2 said:


> It says that 2 of the conditions was that they stayed away from each other and they stay out of liverpool! Perhaps he went to liverpool or saw the other guy. Makes me so mad they got life but only did 8 years!!! Life should mean life!!!


*I totaly agree with these 2 posts.I might add i dont think blaming it on what films they watched or their parents is an answer.*


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> No, I'm sorry I don't give a damn what film they watched and they used that as a defence. If a toddlers screams of pain and crying for his mum didn't stop them from torturing him and brutally murdering him, then -nothing- would have. They're nothing short of pure evil and the fact that they were ever released goes to show what a state our penal system is in. It's disgusting that they were released and that anyone actually campaigned for them to be released, absolutely disgusting. I think not being told what he did is to protect him from other prisoners (can't remember who said that sorry).
> x


Have you seen childs play? do you have a mental development delay? They both had to deal with physical abuse from their parents so violence and abuse was a "normal" every day thing for them. Im imagine when they were getting beaten they cried e.t.c


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Daynna said:


> Have you seen childs play? do you have a mental development delay? They both had to deal with physical abuse from their parents so violence and abuse was a "normal" every day thing for them. Im imagine when they were getting beaten they cried e.t.c


No, to all these things. I'm a psychology student and my mum is teacher who has taught children with a mental delay, learning disabilities, and children that have been abused by their parents phsyically, emotionally and mentally, and they may not have completely understood right and wrong, and they may have smacked another kid on occassion because that was the norm at home, but -none- of those children would have gone to a shopping centre, abducted a child and then spent however long torturing them while they scream in agony. The parents have a hell of a lot to answer to, and if they were my kids I would have hated myself every single day for raising something (yes something, I don't even consider these people human) that could do that to a child. And I'm sorry but a film, is NOT an excuse to torture somebody! 
There are thousands of people that have been beaten as children and they go on to be fantastic, well adjusted members of society who would never dream of hurting a fly because they realise how awful it is to treat people that way because they've experienced it. And there are thousands of mentally delayed people who would never even think of hurting somebody. No this doesn't apply to every child obviously, but watching a god damn film doesn't excuse -anybody- from what they did. It's not a defense, it's not a mitigating circumstance, it's a sodding excuse because no one wanted/and still doesn't want to admit that children are capable of being evil.
This was nothing but brutal, and cruel and they should never have been let out, ever.
I'm sorry I'm so black and white about it, but this horrified me the first time I heard about it and even now it still makes my blood boil to the extreme.
x


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i do agree with you it isnt an a reason but it doesnt help, If your a student you must know there is a massive link between voilent games and films and child voilence e.t.c 

I watched something only a few weeks ago that showed children who play and watch voilent things their emotions and empathy for other people lessens. I agree thousands of people who have been abused dont go on to do it, aswell as people with development problems i never said they did. but you couple everything those boys went through they were on the path of distruction from the start 

if you know no better then watching and seeing voilence every day, None bothered with these boys their waste of spaces parents didnt, the school didnt, social services didnt care the list goes on how they were failed as children. 

As i said i agree they shouldnt have ever have been let out of prison, they shouldnt have new names of lives.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> No, to all these things. I'm a psychology student and my mum is teacher who has taught children with a mental delay, learning disabilities, and children that have been abused by their parents phsyically, emotionally and mentally, and they may not have completely understood right and wrong, and they may have smacked another kid on occassion because that was the norm at home, but -none- of those children would have gone to a shopping centre, abducted a child and then spent however long torturing them while they scream in agony. The parents have a hell of a lot to answer to, and if they were my kids I would have hated myself every single day for raising something (yes something, I don't even consider these people human) that could do that to a child. And I'm sorry but a film, is NOT an excuse to torture somebody!
> There are thousands of people that have been beaten as children and they go on to be fantastic, well adjusted members of society who would never dream of hurting a fly because they realise how awful it is to treat people that way because they've experienced it. And there are thousands of mentally delayed people who would never even think of hurting somebody. No this doesn't apply to every child obviously, but watching a god damn film doesn't excuse -anybody- from what they did. It's not a defense, it's not a mitigating circumstance, it's a sodding excuse because no one wanted/and still doesn't want to admit that children are capable of being evil.
> This was nothing but brutal, and cruel and they should never have been let out, ever.
> I'm sorry I'm so black and white about it, but this horrified me the first time I heard about it and even now it still makes my blood boil to the extreme.
> x


then you should also know about Bandura's 'BoBo doll' study.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, lets throw the 'all who are abused, go on to abuse line' I have heard many a time.

So why do we think they go onto abuse? Is it because they decide they want some power back in their lives and to screw someone else over? No, not usually. Its because they are incapable of contemplating all the consequences of their actions, it sets people back so they live in the moment, they live hour by hour, don't think very far ahead etc. They often have rather severe mental disorders, and personally as a human I find it rather offensive to be told kids can be evil from day one of birth.

Why do people need to be so incredibly judgemental? We know so incredibly little about these things yet we sit here going 'OH OH they are evil because watching a film isn't an excuse!!' have you ever spoken to either of the people involved? No, I very much doubt it and in order to be released into society they will have had to show an incredibly large amount of remorse and been through a lot of rehabilitation, maybe they never should have been released, but how can you judge that when you do not know what the potential crime is this time??


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> No, to all these things. I'm a psychology student and my mum is teacher who has taught children with a mental delay, learning disabilities, and children that have been abused by their parents phsyically, emotionally and mentally, and they may not have completely understood right and wrong, and they may have smacked another kid on occassion because that was the norm at home, but -none- of those children would have gone to a shopping centre, abducted a child and then spent however long torturing them while they scream in agony. The parents have a hell of a lot to answer to, and if they were my kids I would have hated myself every single day for raising something (yes something, I don't even consider these people human) that could do that to a child. And I'm sorry but a film, is NOT an excuse to torture somebody!
> There are thousands of people that have been beaten as children and they go on to be fantastic, well adjusted members of society who would never dream of hurting a fly because they realise how awful it is to treat people that way because they've experienced it. And there are thousands of mentally delayed people who would never even think of hurting somebody. No this doesn't apply to every child obviously, but watching a god damn film doesn't excuse -anybody- from what they did. It's not a defense, it's not a mitigating circumstance, it's a sodding excuse because no one wanted/and still doesn't want to admit that children are capable of being evil.
> This was nothing but brutal, and cruel and they should never have been let out, ever.
> I'm sorry I'm so black and white about it, but this horrified me the first time I heard about it and even now it still makes my blood boil to the extreme.
> x


I'm sorry but I worry greatly if you are a psychology student. My friends study psychology and think nothing similar to you about this subject whatsoever. What if your job entails helping kids who have hurt other kids seriously? Are you just going to say 'Nah, you're just evil I wont help you' or what?

Have you not heard of individual cases/circumstances? You cannot cover people with mental issues with one big blanket 'they are like this NONE of them hurt anyone else properly', you just can't.

I am seriously worried if you are the future of psychologists in this country, psychologists never see things as black or white, that isn't what they are paid to do :nonod:


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of whether these two should have been released. But if memory serves correctly some of the terms of parole for these were
Name change - must never inform anyone of who they are
No contact with family - keeps who they are secret that way
No visiting liverpool areas
No contact with each other

Regardless of what crime was committed, these few stipulations alone must be very difficult to keep to. Name change, yes you can adjust to that, after all we all changed our names when we married. But what personal history can you say to explain your 8/10 years where you've been inside, and also to be able to remember it. No contact with your family. OK there wasnt much of a family in the first place, but you'd more than likely want to be able to stay in touch with one member if not the others. As to the contact with each other, I think that friendship was broken way before they were released and wanted nothing more to do with each other. Under these circumstances I wouldnt be suprised if the parole was broken on purpose, knowing that in doing so parole would be ended and you'd end up back in prison where all the pretence and lies could be dropped and you could go back to who you are. I did read that one was coping in the outside world better than the other but cant remember which way round it was.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

bird said:


> I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of whether these two should have been released. But if memory serves correctly some of the terms of parole for these were
> Name change - must never inform anyone of who they are
> No contact with family - keeps who they are secret that way
> No visiting liverpool areas
> ...


It could be something as simple as being late for a curfew - or as serious as giving cause to 'suspect' the public are at risk......there are many conditions.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

He could have made contact with the mothers family ?

No idea though, I find it strange why they didn't say *why* he was arrested.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

mellowma said:


> He could have made contact with the mothers family ?
> 
> No idea though, I find it strange why they didn't say *why* he was arrested.


Probably because the reaction from people will be rather large as it is, and they want to deal with the issue without getting hate mail for letting him out in the first place. If we know what the crime is we can trace him to his new identity as can prisoners, then he would need another new identity etc so I suspect it will be treated as though he isn't John Venables but his new identity etc.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> Probably because the reaction from people will be rather large as it is, and they want to deal with the issue without getting hate mail for letting him out in the first place. If we know what the crime is we can trace him to his new identity as can prisoners, then he would need another new identity etc so I suspect it will be treated as though he isn't John Venables but his new identity etc.


Yes, i think it will come out though, somehow. He had a fiancee apparently. Or that may be the other one.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I think the only reason that it has come to light in the first instance is because a tabloid newspaper was going to run with the story. 

I find it hard to be objective about this case- too emotional. Definitely one of the worst true life horror stories in my living memory.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> No, to all these things. I'm a psychology student and my mum is teacher who has taught children with a mental delay, learning disabilities, and children that have been abused by their parents phsyically, emotionally and mentally, and they may not have completely understood right and wrong, and they may have smacked another kid on occassion because that was the norm at home, but -none- of those children would have gone to a shopping centre, abducted a child and then spent however long torturing them while they scream in agony. The parents have a hell of a lot to answer to, and if they were my kids I would have hated myself every single day for raising something (yes something, I don't even consider these people human) that could do that to a child. And I'm sorry but a film, is NOT an excuse to torture somebody!
> There are thousands of people that have been beaten as children and they go on to be fantastic, well adjusted members of society who would never dream of hurting a fly because they realise how awful it is to treat people that way because they've experienced it. And there are thousands of mentally delayed people who would never even think of hurting somebody. No this doesn't apply to every child obviously, but watching a god damn film doesn't excuse -anybody- from what they did. It's not a defense, it's not a mitigating circumstance, it's a sodding excuse because no one wanted/and still doesn't want to admit that children are capable of being evil.
> This was nothing but brutal, and cruel and they should never have been let out, ever.
> I'm sorry I'm so black and white about it, but this horrified me the first time I heard about it and even now it still makes my blood boil to the extreme.
> x


I never once said that wat these kids did wasn't wrong, but I stand by wha I said about the parents being punshed,
You are a psych student ad yourmum is a teacher right? so you both shoul know that each child like this is indervidual and should be treat as such.
WHAT THEY DIDWAS WRONG...but there were many different sides to the story.
Yes there are thousasnds of people beat up as children who go on to be good people but there are many who don't too, 
Developmental dessabilities of the brain take all sorts of different turns and it would take me ages to explain what I mean...but if anything happens in my sons life it coud send him over the edge and no, he doesnt always think about what is right or wrong when he is like this, so I keep him in, hence why i said the parents should have kept these kids in.... It's thanks to lack of understanding by society in geeral that I found a suicide plan under his mattress yesterday...he had no reason to think i would be in there so had no secret ideas for me to find it....he is suicidle....and its thanks to people who seem to hate him for being different.The kids your mum teaches probably o know right from wrong, but I'm sorry she doesnt have it 24/7 so you can't comment on what it is like as a parent and what a parents job is.
I thin the 2 boys who did this should havebeen locked away or good, but i think they should have been locked away with some kind of therapy and psychiactric help too.
Clare xx


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Ok 3rd edit. 
Maybe they're not evil, but what they did was IMO. I -do- believe in individuality. Completely. I was trying to say that it's unfair to tarnish -all- people with the 'beaten so beat' brush. I was trying to say that one thing doesn't necessarily lead to the other at all. 
The 5 schools of psychology also IMO are nonsense for the most part, psych tries to be scientific (which when talking about human behaviour is impossibly because there is no 2 + 2 = 4). Each has it's own way of explaining behaviour and ignores the other schools completely. 
Nothing is going to make what happened better, even if they were never let out, it wouldn't bring the little boy back. But I also don't think that the media should be allowed to do it's 'manhunt' thing that it likes doing. There are laws in the country that mean that information about them cannot be released. And no matter how bad the crime, I don't think breaking more laws (or just ignoring them) is the way to go.
Also I would like to say, to anyone who I've offended I'm genuinely sorry (which I can't sound over text I know, but it's still true). I don't word things very well and I try to say one thing and it comes out completely differently.
x


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

mellowma said:


> He could have made contact with the mothers family ?
> 
> No idea though, I find it strange why they didn't say *why* he was arrested.


An injunction is in place on any kind of reporting that could risk exposure

It only became public after it was leaked - else - no one would ever know.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> OK, lets throw the 'all who are abused, go on to abuse line' I have heard many a time.
> 
> So why do we think they go onto abuse? Is it because they decide they want some power back in their lives and to screw someone else over? No, not usually. Its because they are incapable of contemplating all the consequences of their actions, it sets people back so they live in the moment, they live hour by hour, don't think very far ahead etc. They often have rather severe mental disorders, and personally as a human I find it rather offensive to be told kids can be evil from day one of birth.
> 
> Why do people need to be so incredibly judgemental? We know so incredibly little about these things yet we sit here going 'OH OH they are evil because watching a film isn't an excuse!!' have you ever spoken to either of the people involved? No, I very much doubt it and in order to be released into society they will have had to show an incredibly large amount of remorse and been through a lot of rehabilitation, maybe they never should have been released, but how can you judge that when you do not know what the potential crime is this time??


Tinsley as I've said before I have a huge amount of respect for you and once again you have posted a well thought out and undersandig post,
Clare xx


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I'm not trying to blanket people by saying that because the people I've known haven't done anything means that no one will, I was actually trying to say it the other way, that *being mentally delayed/beaten as a child doesn't mean that they 'will' behave in this way, because thousands don't and it's unfair to those that are well adjusted to tarnish them with the 'those that are beaten will beat' brush.*
> Further more, if they were so remorseful and had been so well 'rehabilited' and were truely sorry for what they had done and had decided to become useful members of society then *there should never have been -any- breaking of -any- condition of thier release.*
> The other thing I find hard to figure out, is that, if everyone is an individual (which yeah, I do believe actually) then it's funny that they were both 'rehabilitated' and had both shown 'adequate remorse' that it happened at the exactly the same time. *
> And as for me thinking they're evil so I'm going to make an awful psychologist, I -do- think they're evil, I think what they did was evil.* But I think we should protect the innocent in the society, and the people that were innocent were that little boy and his family, not the lads that did this. And I don't think that giving them brand new lives was the way to go about showing that this country will not take people behaving in this way.
> x


OK, first bit. I think we all on here know not every abused kid goes on to abuse, there was one thread a while back on this and there was only one person who was re banned who thought otherwise. But at the same time you can't say their situation was no excuse to go on to do what they did, its a reason, not an excuse.

Secondly, you don't know what the condition is that was broken. Might be serious, might not, but unless you have been in that specific situation, YOU can't say how at fault it is. Released in 2001 weren't they, so that's 9 whole years of managing to do everything right for someone who has to fake being someone they are not, like another poster said, perhaps they want to return to prison and broke their curfew or something on purpose, food for thought, perhaps.

I never said you will be an awful psychologist, all I said is that I am incredibly worried if you are to be the future of all psychs, I'm entitled to that opinion and I would not take up an offer of psychotherapy if that psychologist uses such sweeping blanket statements and refuses to accept there is grey in some matters and they are not black and white. I believe you have to go through something to understand it, no matter how many books you read and exams you take, you can never fully understand unless you have been in that situation, and I believe a psychologist realises that and therefore does not form such harsh judgement, it does not help the patient in the least.

I 100% agree what they did was evil, it was a vile act and I hope nothing like that will ever happen again, but that doesn't mean the criminals were evil, they were kids, easily influenced, easily lead, very young and probably, like the other kids who hurt those two brothers that was in the news more recently, didn't understand fully what they were doing. I'm sure if they knew this was the life they would lead, and the pain inflicted upon those involved, they would have thought otherwise.

You don't know John Venables, therefore you can't know he is evil, like I can't know he is not evil, but IMO as a child he was not, whether he is now or not I have no idea, but I do not believe doing what he did made him evil, otherwise the vast majority of people in this world are evil on at least some level, aren't they?

It just feels like you are using all your knowledge from textbooks/lectures etc and judging people. Psychologists cannot judge people, you may have to work with those who have DONE the crime not those who are victim of it, you really will need to be more impartial depending on which route you go down :nonod: I'm sorry but no textbooks/1st's with honours in psychology will give you the qualifications to be a good psychologist, you need to be more impartial and see the grey of things, its all part of the learning curve but I would just hope any psychology student would be more open minded and not so judgemental, this is just my opinion though, of course.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

jenniferx said:


> I think the only reason that it has come to light in the first instance is because a tabloid newspaper was going to run with the story.
> 
> I find it hard to be objective about this case- too emotional. Definitely one of the worst true life horror stories in my living memory.


I agree, i cannot even think too much about it.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

tinsley tried to rep you again but have to spread it around apprently 

totally agree with everything you said


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> Tinsley as I've said before I have a huge amount of respect for you and once again you have posted a well thought out and undersandig post,
> Clare xx





Daynna said:


> tinsley tried to rep you again but have to spread it around apprently
> 
> totally agree with everything you said


Aww thanks both of you :001_wub:

I'm not trying to detract from the original crime, such a cruel, cruel thing to have done, justice wont ever be done for the family, which is kind of why I think its a shame the boys haven't just vanished under new identities and can be tracked in terms of now etc, I doubt it will bring the family anything positive


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

i read in the daily mail today that it had something to do with Jamie bulgers mother. Maybe he broke his parole conditions and went to see her and that prob spooked her and she called the police on him???


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

ad_1980 said:


> i read in the daily mail today that it had something to do with Jamie bulgers mother. Maybe he broke his parole conditions and went to see her and that prob spooked her and she called the police on him???


I've not heard anything, poor poor lady if that is true though. I think I saw her speaking not long ago on This Morning and she said as much as she knows their were reasons for their doing it etc, she couldn't physically forgive them for it, which is totally understandable. Must be awful having it brought back into the media time and time again


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i wonder if guilt got the better of him, as she has been in the news abit more lately hasnt she. I wonder if seeing her made him want to make amends e.t.c 

I dont think i could ever forgive them if i was her. 

havin dealt with a nearly 10yr old doing something he shouldnt i know its never as black and white as some people think


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Tinsley said:


> OK, first bit. I think we all on here know not every abused kid goes on to abuse, there was one thread a while back on this and there was only one person who was re banned who thought otherwise. But at the same time you can't say their situation was no excuse to go on to do what they did, its a reason, not an excuse.
> 
> Secondly, you don't know what the condition is that was broken. Might be serious, might not, but unless you have been in that specific situation, YOU can't say how at fault it is. Released in 2001 weren't they, so that's 9 whole years of managing to do everything right for someone who has to fake being someone they are not, like another poster said, perhaps they want to return to prison and broke their curfew or something on purpose, food for thought, perhaps.
> 
> ...


Damn good points actually, going to make me think. But I need to stress about how psychology students are taught. We are told that there are 5 schools of psych. The current favoured one is Cognitive. But we've been through 4 others that at the time were the be all and end all of psychology until someone came along and gave us another one.
I do believe in gray areas, I was -trying- to say that, but as I said, I screw my wording up and it's come across as thought I think that everyone will behave in the same way given a certain circumstane, which I don't because that's absolute rubbish. 
And the bit about the breaking of the conditions of release, you've got a good point, I think I'd forgotten that it had been 9 years since they were released (that has gone so quickly), and 9 years does show that they're trying, and yes, it could be something or nothing. They could have just been stuck in a traffic jam and late back one night. Which is unfair for me to jump all over before I know what even happened. And I still think that we shouldn't be told what happened.
But back what psychs, whichever 'school' you follow means you will treat following that school. Bio psychs for instance will just throws pills at a problem and suggest no counselling whatsoever, because it's all down to dodgy biology. And no traditional bio psych will ever think differently, and that is being black and white IMO. It's only recently that enough people (like you) are saying that there -are- grey areas, and that a sweeping generalisation doesn't apply.
Psychology considers itself a science, and that is the problem, 'the science of human behaviour', which I don't agree with. Humans are so completely random! That what applies to one doesn't apply to another. And I -know- that! I had therapy. I had CBT, and when I said it wasn't working they turned about and told me it was because 'I hadn't understood the exercise properly' and again in uni one day, I did a CBT exercise and it didn't work, and my lectuer tried telling me I had cheated (Which I hadn't) because CBT always works, no matter what the problem is! I don't know why I'm so wound up by someone I don't know thinking I'm gonna suck as a psych, but I am. At myself for wording things so it sounds like I have no clue. 
I just wish we could explain this type of behaviour. To try and prevent it, but I don't think we ever will.
x


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> I've not heard anything, poor poor lady if that is true though. I think I saw her speaking not long ago on This Morning and she said as much as she knows their were reasons for their doing it etc, she couldn't physically forgive them for it, which is totally understandable. Must be awful having it brought back into the media time and time again


of course it is understandable.

would you forgive someone who killed your 2 year old child? Or any child of any age for that matter?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Daynna said:


> i wonder if guilt got the better of him, as she has been in the news abit more lately hasnt she. I wonder if seeing her made him want to make amends e.t.c
> 
> I dont think i could ever forgive them if i was her.
> 
> havin dealt with a nearly 10yr old doing something he shouldnt i know its never as black and white as some people think


It must rack up an awful lot of guilt seeing her on TV and in mags etc, I expect it is really hard knowing you did something so awful yet there is nothing you can do to even attempt to resolve it. Just awful isn't it


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> Damn good points actually, going to make me think. But I need to stress about how psychology students are taught. We are told that there are 5 schools of psych. The current favoured one is Cognitive. But we've been through 4 others that at the time were the be all and end all of psychology until someone came along and gave us another one.
> I do believe in gray areas, I was -trying- to say that, but as I said, I screw my wording up and it's come across as thought I think that everyone will behave in the same way given a certain circumstane, which I don't because that's absolute rubbish.
> And the bit about the breaking of the conditions of release, you've got a good point, I think I'd forgotten that it had been 9 years since they were released (that has gone so quickly), and 9 years does show that they're trying, and yes, it could be something or nothing. They could have just been stuck in a traffic jam and late back one night. Which is unfair for me to jump all over before I know what even happened. And I still think that we shouldn't be told what happened.
> But back what psychs, whichever 'school' you follow means you will treat following that school. Bio psychs for instance will just throws pills at a problem and suggest no counselling whatsoever, because it's all down to dodgy biology. And no traditional bio psych will ever think differently, and that is being black and white IMO. It's only recently that enough people (like you) are saying that there -are- grey areas, and that a sweeping generalisation doesn't apply.
> ...


I just like to be difficult  From personal experience I just have this big hang up of being judged etc, and it can affect people so much when the judgement isn't even a natural reflection of that person.

You speak lots of sense, I'm also pretty useless with words a lot of the time, I know what I mean, I just can't quite get it out how I intend :blushing:

You wont suck as a psych, else you wouldn't be on the course and know all that you do, you will learn a lot I think when you meet/treat all the varying types of people with varying reasons for their behaviour etc, books can't really teach that very well I don't think, I'm just here to throw things out and be difficult :laugh:

I was a bit harsh on those posts, I got the impression you were 'this is how it is, I know so because its my job/I'm studying it and so I know what the situation is etc', and in reality, to me, the whole Jamie Bulger case is so vague in more recent times, all we really know for definite is the crime, not even really how those boys did grow up/what they were like in prison.

I wouldn't even have said they should be released, they may never be able to be reintroduced into society successfully, which is very sad, but perhaps the case here, this is it, we really don't know do we :nonod:

xx


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

ad_1980 said:


> of course it is understandable.
> 
> would you forgive someone who killed your 2 year old child? Or any child of any age for that matter?


This is it, like his Mum said she can understand and look at the situation and think 'they didn't do it to inflict all the pain they did, but its the fact that they did it' you can't get past that fact, to an extent they still chose to do it and we don't and wont ever know why, this is why its easy for someone like me to say its not black and white etc, because I'm not involved and wasn't really around at the time it happened to understand the full impact of it.

I have no doubt in saying I don't think I could ever forgive someone who would do something like that, begin to understand why perhaps, but forgiveness is on such a completely different level :nonod:


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

The media is never going to let this go now are they? The mother will get no respite at all now. 
x


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

James' mother actually tracked Robert thompson down a few yrs ago, so maybe SHE contacted John, but as HE has the conditions on him hes the one who gets into trouble


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> The media is never going to let this go now are they? The mother will get no respite at all now.
> x


actually from what ive read she is a very very big instigater in the whole media coverage, she'll ring them up and contact them. apprently she encourages them.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I remember it so well  was absolutley shocking It is a very emotional topic and one which will people will have varying opinions on ....I personally think they should not have been released - in these cases I am always on the victims side as the law very seldom is. We can all sit here and debate the states of their minds and what happened to them within thier own homes etc but I dont think all abused children or children with behaviour problems go out to a shopping centre, abduct a child and then torture it to death - this had to be something way more deeper for them to even contemplate it .....what I dont understand is how after 8yrs somone said yes they are now fit to go back into society?? surely they would need extensive hardcore therapy to try and get to the root of why they did it?? I dont think u can do that in 8yrs.

I just feel really sorry for the parents of Jamie in all this, must be awful bringing all the memories flooding back


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Daynna said:


> James' mother actually tracked Robert thompson down a few yrs ago, so maybe SHE contacted John, but as HE has the conditions on him hes the one who gets into trouble





Daynna said:


> actually from what ive read she is a very very big instigater in the whole media coverage, she'll ring them up and contact them. apprently she encourages them.


This is why its so hard to form a proper opinion, isn't it? Its a shame those boys weren't properly hidden away so to speak, and it wasn't a completely new start new this and that etc.

I don't even think the boys would have contemplated it, you just do things at that age sometimes, though what made them do that I don't think we will ever know, I don't think I would want to know either


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

She instigates all the media attention? Why? So no one forgets? 
x


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

mellowma said:


> He could have made contact with the mothers family ?
> 
> No idea though, I find it strange why they didn't say *why* he was arrested.





Daynna said:


> James' mother actually tracked Robert thompson down a few yrs ago, so maybe SHE contacted John, but as HE has the conditions on him hes the one who gets into trouble





Daynna said:


> actually from what ive read she is a very very big instigater in the whole media coverage, she'll ring them up and contact them. apprently she encourages them.


You never know and we possibly never will. But just maybe he's been taken back for his own safety. Maybe the mother has found him. 

But yes I would want to be able to say sorry, although it wouldnt do a fat lot of good. Young children that commit such horrible crimes, can and do get rehabilitated. Mary Bell is one such child, although she was behind bars for a few years more than these two.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bird said:


> You never know and we possibly never will. But just maybe he's been taken back for his own safety. Maybe the mother has found him.
> 
> But yes I would want to be able to say sorry, although it wouldnt do a fat lot of good. Young children that commit such horrible crimes, can and do get rehabilitated. Mary Bell is one such child, although she was behind bars for a few years more than these two.


But then its a matter of should you be allowed to say sorry if they want nothing to do with you? I know the person who did wrong by me, I never ever want to hear a word from them and if I so much as saw them in the street I wont go into what I would do 

It takes a huge amount of courage to properly be able to forgive someone and forget about it 100%, especially if people have been cunning/very dishonest in what they did in the first place, makes you wonder how to trust any of them when apparently they learn to talk the talk and walk the walk in these rehabilitation places, why should they be allowed the chance to apologise if that 2 second apology will set you back several steps and cause you upset, I would think the criminal wouldn't get priority here  Perhaps easier in more black and white cases and maybe with kids, because we can live in the hope kids are more honest than full grown adults who have done numerous crimes, its harder for me to think the latter will show true remorse tbh.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I hope it's not because she found him so they've taken him for his own safety. That can't be healthy for her either. Let alone that if either of their identities got released they would both be killed. Let's face it, there'd be a witch-hunt and they would get mobbed. 
x


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Daynna said:


> i do agree with you it isnt an a reason but it doesnt help, If your a student you must know there is a massive link between voilent games and films and child voilence e.t.c
> 
> I watched something only a few weeks ago that showed children who play and watch voilent things their emotions and empathy for other people lessens. I agree thousands of people who have been abused dont go on to do it, aswell as people with development problems i never said they did. but you couple everything those boys went through they were on the path of distruction from the start
> 
> ...


actually most kids from 2y/o know the difference between tv and reality, so a film or a programme or music is not an excuse for enacting the same violence, even kids with mental deficiencies generally have the ability to know right from wrong and will learn behaviour from their peers and adults... they might get ideas from films etc but tbh they can get it from real life too.. just watch the news or slapstick kids/adults programmes. what they might not realise is the strength they have and the ability to hurt or care about what they do. some people are just built badly.

If my cousin (down's syndrome) knows the difference and has done since a toddler and knows she has more strength than most kids her age.. then they have no excuse, as she LOVES horror movies and has NEVER acted them out.

if i ran the country.. those boys would never be let out.


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## cherrie_b (Dec 14, 2008)

I was only 6 in 1993 and so don't remember this...however I have read all about it today. James Bulger's mother did track one of them down, in the hope that she could confront him...she couldn't. I can understand why she brings it to the media's attention all the time. I mean...she will never have her little boy back and never understand why they did what they did. There is no 8 year sentence for her or James...they both got life. 

I imagine that she feels they should not be let out...and I am inclined to agree. The courts and government continually changed the sentencing from what I have read...first they were given a minimum of 8 years...then it was decided that the boys were not given a "fair" trial etc. What is "fair" about taking the life of a 2 year old boy? They were caught on camera. The evidence was undeniable...and then the murderers were released for "good behaviour". 

Absolutely ridiculous.


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## thedeans (Apr 8, 2009)

I remember watching cinderella over and over when I was a little girl and believing "I WAS CINDERELLA" i made my mum get me a posh frock and I lived out that film daily - but of course I wasn't - lucky for me my parents gave my lovely films to watch
How many of us watched Dr Who when we were young and thought daleks were real, how many of us get so wrapped up in soap operas that they are almost real life!!!! until our common sense and knowledge remind us its just tv programme - and we are adults

What these boys did was wrong - but they didn't know this at the time

They were so obsessed with childs play and chucky - that they needed to teach chucky a lesson - like in the film to live out their fantasy they didn't have the mentallity to realise it wasn't what you do in real life

They sought out a child that looked "to them" like chucky (remember they had approached another child first) and then taught it a lesson - all sense and reason had left there minds as they were in effect "brain washed" by the movie that they had watched over and over for WEEKS it was their world

It doesn't excuse what they did - the sad reality is that these young CHILDREN as thats what they were, were so messed up that they couldn't distinguish fact from fantasy - Ask yourself - Do you really believe that they would have done this if they had come from a different environment such as a loving, caring home ???


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## cherrie_b (Dec 14, 2008)

thedeans said:


> I remember watching cinderella over and over when I was a little girl and believing "I WAS CINDERELLA" i made my mum get me a posh frock and I lived out that film daily - but of course I wasn't - lucky for me my parents gave my lovely films to watch
> How many of us watched Dr Who when we were young and thought daleks were real, how many of us get so wrapped up in soap operas that they are almost real life!!!! until our common sense and knowledge remind us its just tv programme - and we are adults
> 
> What these boys did was wrong - but they didn't know this at the time
> ...


If you were James Bulger's mother...would you have the same opinion?


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Some do come from caring homes that do commit awful crimes.
'if' Denise alerts the press 'maybe' it is because she wants them to be punished fully. She does not hide the fact that she believes they should never have been released.
How do we know they feel 'guilt' - from what Denise has said, neither one of them have ever shown remorse or said sorry.

We just do not know.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

The children that understand at the age of 9 down that things they see on telly ARENT real are the children that dont have a massive amount of imaginations! (not trying to offend cant explain it in any other way) My son has had the most amazing imagination from such an early age, its very difficult to tell him that Dr who and transformers are not real. I know a lil boy who was soooo into disney, he thought he could fly and tried to fly off his top bunk!!!! Luckly wasnt hurt. 

I dont blame the mother at all for trying to find them. I keep trying to picture what it would be like to have my son taken, tortured and killed.......it makes me feel very sick and I dont get very far with it before I get the answer I am looking for.......I would hunt them down and kill them myself. After loosing my son to me there would be nothing left to live for. Thats how I would feel.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

We're all entitled to an opinion on this, and we all have one on the circumstances surrounding what led the boys to committ such a tragic crime, but what we all have agreed on is that what they did was wrong, Nobody has stated otherwise
The origional post was about his breaking his conditions of release, do we know what the break was yet does anyone know?
Clare xx


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

I still say that they didn't do it all on their own an adult helped them somewhere along the line and they have never been caught.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

they are both evil and should have been hanged, like every other murderer in this world.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Clare7435 said:


> We're all entitled to an opinion on this, and we all have one on the circumstances surrounding what led the boys to committ such a tragic crime, but what we all have agreed on is that what they did was wrong, Nobody has stated otherwise
> The origional post was about his breaking his conditions of release, do we know what the break was yet does anyone know?
> Clare xx


No it's just said coming up on the news why has he been put back in prison and should we have the right to no?


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Indie said:


> I still say that they didn't do it all on their own an adult helped them somewhere along the line and they have never been caught.


I quite agree with you there indie, at the age of 10 it is easy to plant an idea into a childs head without actually saying what you'd like them to do, as a parent ...and as I;m sure parents would agre ..we all know how to use reverse psychology on a child. The child wouldnt even know it as being done.
Clare xx


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

nic101 said:


> they are both evil and should have been hanged, like every other murderer in this world.


I think that is a little harsh...especially if there was some other input from another party.
Clare xx


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Indie said:


> No it's just said coming up on the news why has he been put back in prison and should we have the right to no?


I think it depends on why he was taken back and if it means a dager tothe public, if not then I dont see the need
Clare xx


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Just checked on tonights things on the net and theres nothing there, but people are saying that public have the right to know.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Clare7435 said:


> I quite agree with you there indie, at the age of 10 it is easy to plant an idea into a childs head without actually saying what you'd like them to do, as a parent ...and as I;m sure parents would agre ..we all know how to use reverse psychology on a child. The child wouldnt even know it as being done.
> Clare xx


not sure about that one, possibly the adult didn't realise what he was saying? you know what we're like when we get going on a subject if we dislike someone enough? how are kids going to know that what you say you will do to them you never will because you know it's wrong?

if you believe that kids are that suggestable.. and i'm sure some are..i, however, don't believe that kids don't know the difference, and that they honestly totally believe they are, for example, ACTUALLY cindarella, or that they can fly.. they try/act out different things to test their knowledge and boundaries etc, they fall in love with ideas like adults do but unlike us don't care about what happens after that point as they don't think ahead. Adults would know not to say they think they are cindarella as they know they'll get looked at like they're mad.. kids can get away with saying stuff like that cos they are merely playing.

it's akin to not understanding money.. you know there are rules on how money works you just don't understand them all yet.

the bulger killers may have had diminished responsibility due to their age and suggestability but they weren't completely unknowing in their actions. the fact they were unremorseful shows that they merely didn't care after having had it explained to them...THAT is scarier than their actual deeds and why the should NEVER be released.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

owieprone said:


> not sure about that one, possibly the adult didn't realise what he was saying? you know what we're like when we get going on a subject if we dislike someone enough? how are kids going to know that what you say you will do to them you never will because you know it's wrong?
> 
> if you believe that kids are that suggestable.. and i'm sure some are..i, however, don't believe that kids don't know the difference, and that they honestly totally believe they are, for example, ACTUALLY cindarella, or that they can fly.. they try/act out different things to test their knowledge and boundaries etc, they fall in love with ideas like adults do but unlike us don't care about what happens after that point as they don't think ahead. Adults would know not to say they think they are cindarella as they know they'll get looked at like they're mad.. kids can get away with saying stuff like that cos they are merely playing.
> 
> ...


Good point,
Ten yeas old, they weren't fully aware of what they did....the remorse comes as they get oler,
There was a case where a child shot his sitter in america....he was playing guns....he was 8 ears old....and I'll put money on him feeling so much remorse wen he hits his teens.
Clare xx


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

owieprone said:


> actually most kids from 2y/o know the difference between tv and reality, so a film or a programme or music is not an excuse for enacting the same violence, even kids with mental deficiencies generally have the ability to know right from wrong and will learn behaviour from their peers and adults... they might get ideas from films etc but tbh they can get it from real life too.. just watch the news or slapstick kids/adults programmes. what they might not realise is the strength they have and the ability to hurt or care about what they do. some people are just built badly.
> 
> If my cousin (down's syndrome) knows the difference and has done since a toddler and knows she has more strength than most kids her age.. then they have no excuse, as she LOVES horror movies and has NEVER acted them out.
> 
> if i ran the country.. those boys would never be let out.


Most children have caring parents, most children have parents who would tell them the difference between real and make believe. No sorry at 2 many children DO NOT know the difference between real and make believe many 2yrs old cant talk so they dont have the mental ability to know that the scary monster on the tv isnt real your more looking at around the age of 4yrs and even then they need a parent to explain to them. my 4 and 5 yr old know doctor isnt real because ive spent time with them, but i know an 8yr who thinks they are real and is scared because no one has spent the time with him to explain it.

so these boys got sticking batteries up a little boys bottom from the news did they?? I think not they got that from childs play


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

nic101 said:


> they are both evil and should have been hanged, like every other murderer in this world.


so you would enjoy seeing a 10yr old CHILD hanging by his neck??


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

IMO we don't know enough about why he is in prison to judge. I am unbiased in this scenario which is where my opinion comes from, perhaps they should have never been released, but why focus so much on this one particular story when in general people are being released far too early? Rapists sentenced to 12 years are serving four years etc too, I don't think it has anything to do with their age the point of whether or not they were released.

I think they did know right from wrong, I don't think they fully understood the implications of what they did/were going to do. You can't say whether or not they were remorseful, how the hell can anyone on here possibly know that?

I think there is far more chance of those two being remorseful than the majority off full grown adults who commit crimes :nonod:


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Tinsley said:


> Rapists sentenced to 12 years are serving four years etc too, I don't think it has anything to do with their age the point of whether or not they were released.


Don't even get me started on that! There was the one judge recently who has either let off/given really leniant sentances to, for no reason! 
He was also the guy that let the housemate who let (IMO) Baby P get mistreated to death, he released him on the fact that 'he wasn't a danger to anyone', well quite frankly someone that would let a child have that happen to them is almost, if not just as bad as, the people actually being cruel. And he's let rapists off with like 6months! It's things like that, that I think are a problem, mis-sentancing, or mis-handling of cases. Like where a burgaler can break in to someones house, trip over something a kid left lying around, and sue for damages!! (something similar, and in the states) but it goes to show what's happening in the world. 
x


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

so these boys got sticking batteries up a little boys bottom from the news did they?? I think not they got that from childs play

No, from what is understood - they beat him with batteries and then put them in his mouth, not his bottom. There was no evidence of sexual abuse, apart from james having his tousers and pants removed - but no proof.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Indie said:


> I still say that they didn't do it all on their own an adult helped them somewhere along the line and they have never been caught.


what makes you think that?


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

God, the details of this case actually make me feel physically ill.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

To answer your question Janice it's probably because they need to protect his identity. Though giving away his name is a bit of a mistake


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Being a mother myself of two wonderful children, I hate these to boys with all my heart and would not pee on them even if they where on fire 

They killed an inicent child, the sexual abuse they administered and they threw paint in his eyes then smashed his skull in with bricks,, they are sadistic little barst**ds and personally they should never have seen the light of day,, sent to a youth centre with playstations, 3 square meals a day, whilst the Bulgers family fell apart and split.

I hope what ever that little g*t did keeps him locked away for the rest of his life.

Yes I am being aggressive but the thought of those little boys last hours makes my stomach twist with rage, If it happened to my children god forbid I would hunt them down and kill them.


But back to Janices question, I reckon he has contacted his family.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

GillyR said:


> so these boys got sticking batteries up a little boys bottom from the news did they?? I think not they got that from childs play
> 
> No, from what is understood - they beat him with batteries and then put them in his mouth, not his bottom. There was no evidence of sexual abuse, apart from james having his tousers and pants removed - but no proof.


i read something different, they were in his bottom maybe different reports a we now papers are known for making things up


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Whatever their behavior that day is put down to doesnt make anything right or them to have the right to an excuse, if those boys had the childhood they suppose to have and i believe it was horrendous then that only strengthens the argument that they should never had been allowed back in society. Millions of pounds were spent changing their identity making sure they could live the rest of their life "safe" what a farse and an insult to jamies family. Ok every human being has the right to be kept safe so they say but when it is said the millions were spent on helping them re-build their lives really does piss me off, no ammount of money could ever begin to re-build jamies families lives that was as good as dead when that little boy died. Never should these people have ever be allowed back into the outside world again to potentially put another family through what jamies family have been and still going through, i just hope and ime sure now he are in an adult prison he get whats coming to him.

I think its about time people stopped making excuses, stop trying to defend these monsters.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> It must rack up an awful lot of guilt seeing her on TV and in mags etc, I expect it is really hard knowing you did something so awful yet there is nothing you can do to even attempt to resolve it. Just awful isn't it


Sorry and i dont wish to offend, but this comment makes me feel that you actually feel sorry for him, GUILTY? my god if thats all he has to live with and feel awfull for what he did then he/they have got off very very lightly.

No it isnt awful, whats awful is, is that those parents lost their baby son through monsters being allowed to roam our streets.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Daynna said:


> i read something different, they were in his bottom maybe different reports a we now papers are known for making things up


There was a lot of mis-reporting, and rumours before the trial, and even after.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I am absolutly DISGUSTED with some of the things that are being said on here, so much for friendly forum....yes it is friendly, until there is a difference of opinion,and then god help those who 'wrong' Why can people either agree to dissagree or not post....
I hope to god none of the new members read this or I'm guessing they'll possibly leave.
NOBODY HAS SAID THEY ARE RIGHT IN WHAT THEY DID...but people do have a right to an opinion without getting torn to bits over it and made to feel like they're the ones ho committed the crime.
Clare xx


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> I am absolutly DISGUSTED with some of the things that are being said on here, so much for friendly forum....yes it is friendly, until there is a difference of opinion,and then god help those who 'wrong' Why can people either agree to dissagree or not post....
> I hope to god none of the new members read this or I'm guessing they'll possibly leave.
> NOBODY HAS SAID THEY ARE RIGHT IN WHAT THEY DID...but people do have a right to an opinion without getting torn to bits over it and made to feel like they're the ones ho committed the crime.
> Clare xx


I honestly think if new members did come on here and read a subject as emotive as this they would understand that opinions and emotions will run high.

I have been one of the members in the past to say we need to keep the forum friendly, but i do think this is a very different thing.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Sadly Clare you'll have to get used to it. Emotions run very high on these sort of subjects. Nobody is right or wrong in their opinion. We don't know everything, only what's been reported and as human beings we will pass our own judgement on these people.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> I am absolutly DISGUSTED with some of the things that are being said on here, so much for friendly forum....yes it is friendly, until there is a difference of opinion,and then god help those who 'wrong' Why can people either agree to dissagree or not post....
> I hope to god none of the new members read this or I'm guessing they'll possibly leave.
> NOBODY HAS SAID THEY ARE RIGHT IN WHAT THEY DID...but people do have a right to an opinion without getting torn to bits over it and made to feel like they're the ones ho committed the crime.
> Clare xx


Oh clare I think this thread has hightened emotions and when this happens people just go in hammer and tongs, your right newbies would run a mile but those who are stressing at ech other are probable friends and will chat quiet merrily on other threads.
Just this one is a bit screwy. I must admit although i was spouting at know one impartcular, the thread stirred such strong emotions in me I came across as aggressive.

try not to get to wound up with how people snipe at each other they will be walking arm in arm again tomorrow.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Its hard when such an opinionated thread comes up. This topic is gonna run high with different views, its human nature. I dont think this has been overly bad, and I also agree that new members will understand this one. I know its only one question about why he was put into prison again, however it brings back memories and feelings what happened, so people are gonna comment on it.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I agree with this but does it have to be done with so much agression? I thought most of us where friends on here, I hate to see people being made to feel so bad.
Sorry people....I get over sensitive when I think of such a great bunch arguing as I'm sure many peple do
Clare xx


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Sadly Clare you'll have to get used to it. Emotions run very high on these sort of subjects. Nobody is right or wrong in their opinion. We don't know everything, only what's been reported and as human beings we will pass our own judgement on these people.


I have to agree with you, all we know is that 2 ten year olds took the life of someones precious child in a most horrific way imaginable, was locked up for no where near the ammount of time they should have been then we pay out millions to protect them.

Thats justice for ya.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

I dont find anything offensive on this thread - just humans trying make some sort of sense of the unthinkable.
Our views of 'children' are shook to the core. I do not think anyone has been rude, or made anyone feel they 'commited a crime'


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

GillyR said:


> There was a lot of mis-reporting, and rumours before the trial, and even after.


Sorry i was wrong, just skimmed over the snopes one (as it isnt very graphic) and it does say they were in his mouth.

Its a very strong emtional subject and i wouldnt ever want to be in james mothers shoes, I would Kill for my children although i dont know what i would do if it was like this case involving other children


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Sorry and i dont wish to offend, but this comment makes me feel that you actually feel sorry for him, GUILTY? my god if thats all he has to live with and feel awfull for what he did then he/they have got off very very lightly.
> 
> No it isnt awful, whats awful is, is that those parents lost their baby son through monsters being allowed to roam our streets.


Nope, the response was in response to a long line of quotes earlier on (including via personal profiles) and was that was stuck on the end as more of a 'eep what more can I say, the whole thing is just awful '.

I think its awful in that the situation can't be left for the family in terms of it always being brought up will no doubt rack up all those emotions more vividly, and I think it is awful that the two boys were basically done for as soon as they left the womb, but I don't have any sympathy lying with either of them.

I can't/wont pass a proper judgement on any of the people involved as I just don't really know anything about it and it isn't my place, I just think the whole situation is an awful one in general, nothing can really be done to improve it as I doubt either of the boys will be kept away from society for what the public want, and the press will continue to do what they do best, therefore I stand by what I said, I think the whole thing is awful :nonod:


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

GillyR said:


> I dont find anything offensive on this thread - just humans trying make some sort of sense of the unthinkable.
> Our views of 'children' are shook to the core. I do not think anyone has been rude, or made anyone feel they 'commited a crime'


In answer to your question i believe an adult was involved because most 10 year olds no the difference between wrong and right. What were they doing at the shopping centre on their own if indeed they were on their own. I no how i want to explain my reasons but can't seem to put it down right for it to come over as i mean it im rubbish at trying to explain things.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

It is strange he is back in the lime light so soon after those to young boys tried to kill those other 2 young boys and left them for dead,, just terrible. do you know what i am talking about


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Indie said:


> In answer to your question i believe an adult was involved because most 10 year olds no the difference between wrong and right. What were they doing at the shopping centre on their own if indeed they were on their own. I no how i want to explain my reasons but can't seem to put it down right for it to come over as i mean it im rubbish at trying to explain things.


I understand what you mean


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> It is strange he is back in the lime light so soon after those to young boys tried to kill those other 2 young boys and left them for dead,, just terrible. do you know what i am talking about


I think i do the thing is vennables and thompson have the luxury of knowing that noone knows who they are.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

sequeena said:


> I understand what you mean


pmsl i'm glad someone does.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Im just watching the news and atm it was a snap shot, but the guy said it was in the publics interest to not say why he is back in prison!!!!!! What???? What the HELL has he done for us not to know!!!!!


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

haeveymolly said:


> I think i do the thing is vennables and thompson have the luxury of knowing that noone knows who they are.


I dunno strange things happen. In town we have a big pub/hotel going back early last year it was taken over by to men in ther late 20's. I don't go out but i no people who go in there alot and they said the new owners were brilliant they really made the pub popular again and it was buzzing with fab food and entertainment all booked. Then one afternoon 7 riot vans appeared outside the pub and they were gone, it was then reported in our local big weekly paper that someone had recognised the one as Thompson and there were so many riot vans so people couldn't see which one took them and they had done a midnight flit for their own protection. How true it is i have no idea i wasn't there.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Indie said:


> I dunno strange things happen. In town we have a big pub/hotel going back early last year it was taken over by to men in ther late 20's. I don't go out but i no people who go in there alot and they said the new owners were brilliant they really made the pub popular again and it was buzzing with fab food and entertainment all booked. Then one afternoon 7 riot vans appeared outside the pub and they were gone, it was then reported in our local big weekly paper that someone had recognised the one as Thompson and there were so many riot vans so people couldn't see which one took them and they had done a midnight flit for their own protection. How true it is i have no idea i wasn't there.


O.M/G!!! well when you think about it they have to be living next to someone so annoying to think that someone thinks it ok to have someone like that around someones family.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

HarryHamster2 said:


> Im just watching the news and atm it was a snap shot, but the guy said it was in the publics interest to not say why he is back in prison!!!!!! What???? What the HELL has he done for us not to know!!!!!


so if we can't no why he is back in prison why the heck did they announce he had gone back in there in the first place doesn't make sense. I think they should put peoples minds at rest now after stirring a hornets nest up.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

haeveymolly said:


> O.M/G!!! well when you think about it they have to be living next to someone so annoying to think that someone thinks it ok to have someone like that around someones family.


I don't no how true it was but it was a bit strange for them to be so popular and then disapear let alone it going in the paper.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Hmmm I wonder how true that is. If there was lots of riot vans!


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

HarryHamster2 said:


> Hmmm I wonder how true that is. If there was lots of riot vans!


I no lots of people round here wondered for months.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Hmmmm, I know they are out and meant to be cured and now they are gonna get jobs and stuff, but I cant see any job apart from office work where they arent gonna come into contact with kids! Quite scary really. Although society says that everyone with councilling can be cured, you still never can tell and it is still very scary for people!


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

This was in this the daily mail this morning Read it for yourselves,I had to stop reading because I got so angry at how well these two have been treated. I don't care if they had abusive parents etc etc,there is no excuse for what they did,it was pure evil and Im sorry but at that age they do have an idea of whats right and wrong! Hanging is too good for them!

James Bulger killer Jon Venables sent back to jail over 'drugs and workplace brawl' | Mail Online

Izzie


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

also on yahoo news



> james Bulger killer Jon Venables was taken back into custody after a bust-up at work, it has been reported.
> 
> The 27 year old grappled with a colleague and had to be pulled away - eventually being suspended from his workplace after an official complaint was made and then recalled to prison, the Daily Mirror reported.
> 
> ...


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Izzie999 said:


> Hi,
> 
> This was in this the daily mail this morning Read it for yourselves,I had to stop reading because I got so angry at how well these two have been treated. I don't care if they had abusive parents etc etc,there is no excuse for what they did,it was pure evil and Im sorry but at that age they do have an idea of whats right and wrong! Hanging is too good for them!
> 
> ...


OMG these boys rightly or wrongly (i think *EXTREMELY**wrongly*) were given a second chance with their life, poor jamie and his family will never get that chance, and they blow it.

he should now be named, he deserves to suffer, i'm sorry if that sounds harsh but what they did was pure evil. its like they know whatever they do they will be protected, its a joke.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I've just had a thought!
The place that he works for wouldn't know who he is would they? They would think that he was a normal 27yr old. But now- a colleague grapples at work, gets suspended and then all of a sudden Jamie's killer is back in prison!? Like the other people working there wouldn't add 2 and 2 together? Cause they wouldn't have been told who he really was when he started working there would they?
So that means people know what his undercover name is? ANd the people that live near him are going to know, and they'll refuse to have him back in their area won't they?
xx

Sorry, also just said that they didn't spend one day in adult prison? They just got treated to a better education than most kids and trips to watch Man U play?!


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

[QUOTE = Stephny691; 1420320] I've just had a thought!
The place that he works for would not know who he is would they? They would think that he was a normal 27yr old. But now, a colleague at work grapples, gets suspended and then all of a sudden Jamie's killer is back in prison!? Like the other people working there would not add 2 and 2 together? Cause they would not have been told who he really was when he started working there would they?
So that means people know what his undercover name is? ANd the people that live near him are going to know, and they'll refuse to have him back in their area will not they?
xx

Sorry, that is, just said that they did not spend one day in adult prison? They just got treated to a better education than most kids and trips to watch Man U play? [/ QUOTE]

Well they know now don't they? Hopefully he will be kept in he is obviously still a very dangerous person and should be kept in.Or better still take him to the strand shopping centre and announce over the tannoy who he is where they can find them and let the good people of Bootle decide his fate! its no more than he deserves!

There are alot of kids out there who have had the same abuse but did not do what Venables and Thompson did,and they do not have the treats and trips out.What kind of message do you think that sends out.Be evil and get treated and mollycoddled for the rest of your lives! kill a kid and get a free playstation and holidays and treats out? Im so glad I left the UK,the justice system is an absolute joke!

Izzie


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I can understand them actually, having to get them used to crowds and people again, otherwise there would have been no chance of them 'fitting' back in to society. But, I dunno, I don't think there's ever going to be an answer.
I think the public feel so let down by the justice system here, that they don't trust it to do the right thing (whatever that might be). Which doesn't help the situation either.
x


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I can understand them actually, having to get them used to crowds and people again, otherwise there would have been no chance of them 'fitting' back in to society. But, I dunno, I don't think there's ever going to be an answer.
> I think the public feel so let down by the justice system here, that they don't trust it to do the right thing (whatever that might be). Which doesn't help the situation either.
> x


but they should never have been allowed to just 'fit back' into society. why should they get all the support and treats when what they did was evil??

the justice system is a joke and that is proven time and time again. there ois no wonder people dont trust it and take matters into their own hands.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Have to agree with mumof5 - they should never have been released - Im not going to go into all the reasoning behind why they may have done it and the films they may have watched and the life they may have lead - the fact remains what they did was horrendous but they still got another chance at life, they were protected and have been allowed to live life for 9years why do they deserve that??? James Bulger and his family will never have this privilege so why should they....


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Have to agree with mumof5 - they should never have been released - Im not going to go into all the reasoning behind why they may have done it and the films they may have watched and the life they may have lead - the fact remains what they did was horrendous but they still got another chance at life, they were protected and have been allowed to live life for 9years why do they deserve that??? James Bulger and his family will never have this privilege so why should they....


I have to agree why should the ones that have no rights to a decent life be the ones that get just that, protected from what they do actually deserve, and thats to be let loose into society and whatever happens, happens if its the worse then they will only be getting what they deserve.

This country is full of bleeding hearts and wheres it getting us.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I don't think they should have been released either- see previous posts lol.
But seeing as how they were- in that instance I can understand why they had to try and get them used to people, because they were releasing them they couldn't let them out without ever having been around crowds. That's my only point, I think they should have stayed inprison where they belong. If you break the law you get -punished-, that's what its there for, and to 'protect' innocent people. It didn't protect Jamie Bulgar and I don't think it's protecting his family now. I don't have a lot of faith in the justice here in all honestly. I think it's ridiculous in some cases-ie. banning certain breeds of dogs just to please the minority of people, and therefore creating public fear of any similar dogs (staffies) for instance. And in other cases is so lenient that it's no punishment at all, like in this case, or the cases where rapists get let out after less than ayear served.
x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

The thing is its a lose lose situation for the people dealing with it.

Release them back into society, morally most of us don't think they should be allowed that.

Keep them in prison, costs millions and people wont be happy about their money feeding those two etc.

Kill them and then people say how can you deter murder yet its OK when the government do it etc.

Tbh I think I would have rather they stayed locked up in a prison safe place where they don't come into contact with other people, but it isn't cheap its a damn rip off


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I think its a case of the lesser of 2 evils i would say keep them in prison yes it grieves me to think that me and my family are paying for their upkeep, but ide rather that they were kept in prison NOT for their safety they dont deserve any consideration as far as ime concerned but the reat of the public will be safe from the monsters


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I think its a case of the lesser of 2 evils i would say keep them in prison yes it grieves me to think that me and my family are paying for their upkeep, but ide rather that they were kept in prison NOT for their safety they dont deserve any consideration as far as ime concerned but the reat of the public will be safe from the monsters


Agreed. Things like what has happened just go to prove its a permanently bad situation. So many people would want to do them harm, and then those people will go and get themselves in trouble for it probably. Shouldn't be given the chance to do anything.

I still think its a shame we can't do a check and how many criminals are within a 20 mile radius of where we live :nonod:


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> The thing is its a lose lose situation for the people dealing with it.
> 
> Release them back into society, morally most of us don't think they should be allowed that.
> 
> ...


Goverments around the world nearly all, if not all support legalised murder.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Under the freedom of information act, there are ways around obtaining 'some' information. 
It is really hypocritical, what they allow 'freedom of information'


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I think its a case of the lesser of 2 evils i would say keep them in prison yes it grieves me to think that me and my family are paying for their upkeep, but ide rather that they were kept in prison NOT for their safety they dont deserve any consideration as far as ime concerned but the reat of the public will be safe from the monsters


I agree, I dont like the fact that they got new identities etc - how much did that cost?? but I can see why they had to -lets face it someone would have killed them,- then thats another innocent life/lifes ruined because of what they did......


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I agree, I dont like the fact that they got new identities etc - how much did that cost?? but I can see why they had to -lets face it someone would have killed them,- then thats another innocent life/lifes ruined because of what they did......


Yes thats the problem no one would be able to turn a blind eye, but he will get it in prison, when the prison warders get to know who he is believe me, unless they keep them under 24hour protection, more money


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Yes thats the problem no one would be able to turn a blind eye, but he will get it in prison, when the prison warders get to know who he is believe me, unless they keep them under 24hour protection, more money


oh yeah they will have to keep him separated I would imagine....I always wondered about the boys parents??? what happened to them?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> oh yeah they will have to keep him separated I would imagine....I always wondered about the boys parents??? what happened to them?


Ye never seen anything of them have we i actually cant remember anything about them at the time of the murder.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

On the news earlier Jamie's mum was angry and upset why they wouldn't tell her he was back in prison. They are keeping everything quiet for his safety so they don't find out his identity but the news reported said they also think it won't be long before they do.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> Agreed. Things like what has happened just go to prove its a permanently bad situation. So many people would want to do them harm, and then those people will go and get themselves in trouble for it probably. Shouldn't be given the chance to do anything.
> 
> I still think its a shame we can't do a check and how many criminals are within a 20 mile radius of where we live :nonod:


We certainly should be able to know i agree, thats the problem taking things into their own hands would be a natural thing to want to do especially the family and this is made stronger by the justice system the public dont think criminals are dealt with correctly, they go to court and get life, WHY they dont get life out in no time for good behaviour it absolutely stinks our system. Life should mean life there is no place for these people on our streets.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Ye never seen anything of them have we i actually cant remember anything about them at the time of the murder.


No I cannot remember much either...strange really - I wonder if they were given new identities too?



Indie said:


> On the news earlier Jamie's mum was angry and upset why they wouldn't tell her he was back in prison. They are keeping everything quiet for his safety so they don't find out his identity but the news reported said they also think it won't be long before they do.


Well I at least hope they let the parents know, i think they above anyone have the right to be kept in the loop must be awful for them....


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I remember everything about the murder i remember it being such an out sry and it shocked the nation plastered in every paper the news was full of it, it was so awful but i cant remember anything about the boys parents


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

QI is very interesting.

I don't think the public have the right to know details of what he has done to be honest. I think James Bulger's family have the right to know, Jon Venables lost the right to privacy from them when he did what he did, and so I think they should know the exact specifics.

I don't though, think the public should know the explicit details, I think knowing what the sentencing is/what is being done should be enough, not knowing specifically everything that is done as that gives away the identity and then we all know what would happen. I don't think it would benefit the public at all to know specific details, we don't need closure like the Bulger family.

I do think though, like Carol has been saying on QI, we should be able to know how many criminals of what category live within x amount of miles from your home. Maybe it would frighten people more than anything, I don't know, I'd like to put my trust in the people who's job this is for that :nonod:


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> No, I'm sorry I don't give a damn what film they watched and they used that as a defence. If a toddlers screams of pain and crying for his mum didn't stop them from torturing him and brutally murdering him, then -nothing- would have. They're nothing short of pure evil and the fact that they were ever released goes to show what a state our penal system is in. It's disgusting that they were released and that anyone actually campaigned for them to be released, absolutely disgusting. I think not being told what he did is to protect him from other prisoners (can't remember who said that sorry).
> x


COMPLETLY AGREE!!!!! waste of f*kn space air and the fact that they r called human makes me sick! if they did this to my kid i would do my very best to find them and boy would i torture them just as bad if not worse than what they did to my baby they dont even deserve to be spoken about!! they r evil disgusting horrid f8ks! keeping their identity hiden is stupid so f8kn stupid!! any girl could have gone with them wanting kids...with them... it makes me sick to think about it. why should they have any right to have their identity hiden?! why??? they wouldnt last 5 minutes if they were showen to the public they would be hunted down and have the most slow and painfull death anyone could imagine and personally i wouldnt stop anyone from doing it they deserve eveything coming to them and believe me it will catch them...one day!!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> QI is very interesting.
> 
> I don't think the public have the right to know details of what he has done to be honest. I think James Bulger's family have the right to know, Jon Venables lost the right to privacy from them when he did what he did, and so I think they should know the exact specifics.
> 
> ...


i disagree by far because they could have done the same thing again and get out at some point how would we ever know?? urs mines anyones kids could be in danger because of evil sh!ts like these!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

i also think prison....far too much of a good life for ev!l f*ks like these!....why....coz they get a warm bed food and even some get a tv all with the fact of knowin no one knows them so they wil be safe in there....a load of crap....imagine it was ur child who went through the awfull things they did to that poor boy imagine!!! u would be outraged u would want to kill them and torture them u really would and anyone who tells me any difrent must be lying.... these boys were and stil are evil they dont deserve anythin cival or anything of a private mater.......they make me sick!


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> i disagree by far because they could have done the same thing again and get out at some point how would we ever know?? urs mines anyones kids could be in danger because of evil sh!ts like these!


ad do you really think it was a crime against a child that got him put back n prison ? I don't....if a child where in any danger from any of them I really don't think they would have got the freedom they did.
I don't think swearing like this is going to getyour point across either, of course it's a highly frustrating case, a child died....and I do know what it is like to have this happen to someone you know, friend of years of my family lost their daughter last year. Claire ...she was pregnant...a man walked up behind her in the middle of Grimsby town centre and stabbed her in the back for no reason whatsoever....I held claire when she was a baby....just a few hours old and this man not only murdered her but she as 35 weeks pregnant with her little girl April...they couldnt save her either...Our whole town was still when they lay them to rest, baby in her arms. Yes...it is frustratng and upsettng and you want to scream an shout and swear...but where does it get us????
Clare xx


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

You cant EVER say that just because someone is out of prison that they wil NEVER do anything again!!!!! We do have a right to know who is living in our area!!!!! I tell you what some of you guys shock me!!! Some of you cant be mothers!!! Surely if you are you would want to protect your children at all cost!!!! Knowing who lives in your area and that your area is SAFE for your children to play in is THE most important thing than giving these sick sick people anonimity (sp) Cause if you really think that these guys really do deserve to be left alone and noone to know where they are........I hope to god that its not your kid that is next hurt by one of these guys cause you dont wanna know who lives by you!!!!!! Once someone has done something like this is is a 50/50 chance they will do something like it again!! FACT!! I dont EVER want to take that chance with my child!!!! Sorry my child is way more important than a sick evil person!!!!!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> i disagree by far because they could have done the same thing again and get out at some point how would we ever know?? urs mines anyones kids could be in danger because of evil sh!ts like these!


Doesn't mean you have to know what it is if he's in prison as you won't know who he is to be careful of!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HarryHamster2 said:


> You cant EVER say that just because someone is out of prison that they wil NEVER do anything again!!!!! We do have a right to know who is living in our area!!!!! I tell you what some of you guys shock me!!! Some of you cant be mothers!!! Surely if you are you would want to protect your children at all cost!!!! Knowing who lives in your area and that your area is SAFE for your children to play in is THE most important thing than giving these sick sick people anonimity (sp) Cause if you really think that these guys really do deserve to be left alone and noone to know where they are........I hope to god that its not your kid that is next hurt by one of these guys cause you dont wanna know who lives by you!!!!!! Once someone has done something like this is is a 50/50 chance they will do something like it again!! FACT!! I dont EVER want to take that chance with my child!!!! Sorry my child is way more important than a sick evil person!!!!!!


Bit harsh! I agree knowing who is in the area etc is important but so is being a good mother and knowing where your kids are etc - some mothers let their kids go out at all times of the night and dont give a toss - making them vulnerable....I dont think any of us agree with what happened and I dont think being a mother or not makes anyone who has an opinion any less valid! - I think what they did was horrific BUT I can understand WHY they had to have their identities hidden doesnt mean I or others agree but its the way it is - Tinsley is just giving a different side to it, to say hope its not your kid next etc is out of order.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I'll sum my thoughts up plain and simple.Do we have the right to know what jon Venables did? imo yes we do.Don't forget we are the tax payers they are keeping EVIL morons like him in prison,and i use the term moron because i won't call him or the likes of him what i'd like to say. Its times such as this i wish we had the electric chair so it would save us tax payers the time,money and trouble looking after them.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'll sum my thoughts up plain and simple.Do we have the right to know what jon Venables did? imo yes we do.Don't forget we are the tax payers they are keeping EVIL morons like him in prison,and i use the term moron because i won't call him or the likes of him what i'd like to say. Its times such as this i wish we had the electric chair so it would save us tax payers the time,money and trouble looking after them.*


True Jan - unfortunately as I said in a previous post the system is designed to help the criminal not the victim -


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> True Jan - unfortunately as I said in a previous post the system is designed to help the criminal not the victim -


*Thats true suzy and i wish this country would stop pussyfooting around evil gits like JV.*


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes it was harsh, I have sat and read this trying not to answer cause I knew it would stur something in me. However I am not willing to sit there and listen to someone who is clearly not thinking of consequences. The justice system here is way to into looking after the wrong people. Why should we help out and give these people who have murdered, raped or abused people rights???? They lost their right to have a normal life the day they did thses evil things. To be honest, I believe in what Janice has just said, they should NEVER be allowed back out on the streets. Why should my son not be allowed to play outside MY house with his friends cause we are soo frightened of who our neighbours are?? My son knows he isnt allowed anywhere other than the square in front of my house, and he comes in when it starts to get dark!! I am not one of these people who dont care! Yet I also believe in my son being able to play outside with his friends!! Why oh why are we putting these people infront of our own peaceful living!!! Who in their right minds would ever think that to let these people out with anonimity is a good idea!!! This world will NEVER get better or safe when we have people who think that murderers have RIGHTS!!!!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HarryHamster2 said:


> Yes it was harsh, I have sat and read this trying not to answer cause I knew it would stur something in me. However I am not willing to sit there and listen to someone who is clearly not thinking of consequences. The justice system here is way to into looking after the wrong people. Why should we help out and give these people who have murdered, raped or abused people rights???? They lost their right to have a normal life the day they did thses evil things. To be honest, I believe in what Janice has just said, they should NEVER be allowed back out on the streets. Why should my son not be allowed to play outside MY house with his friends cause we are soo frightened of who our neighbours are?? My son knows he isnt allowed anywhere other than the square in front of my house, and he comes in when it starts to get dark!! I am not one of these people who dont care! Yet I also believe in my son being able to play outside with his friends!! Why oh why are we putting these people infront of our own peaceful living!!! Who in their right minds would ever think that to let these people out with anonimity is a good idea!!! This world will NEVER get better or safe when we have people who think that murderers have RIGHTS!!!!


And I agree!! however this case is slightly different as in they were 10 yrs old at the time - time some people say in which to be "cured" I dont think they should have let them out! I dont think they should have any rights! I dont think they should live life whilst James Bulger does not have that priviledge! BUT we are not the people making that choice! yes the system sucks and yes it needs changing but getting angry wont solve it and getting at other people who have slighly different views wont alter anything either - it doesnt mean they condone murder.


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Public opinion matters, and yes if we kick up a stink enough then it will change!! People need to start to respect humans as much as they do animals. The amount of posts that have been written on here where animals have been hurt or killed, and you guys ask for blood! Why do we find it soooo hard to do the same thing with our own kind??? Surely our children are this worlds only hope?? Do they not need to be protected??? I think some of you really need to look into what really is important in this world and stop living in your own lil world!! Cause while you do that NOTHING will ever change for anyone else! As a race, as a team of many voices, we do and can change things for the better!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I just don't think we need to know the physical reasons, purely because I don't think it will make a difference.

I think we need to know where he is, ie. is he free/in prison/when will he be out, and also that we need to be able to know what kind of people live in the neighbourhood, but you can't expect to know them all by name, surely the 'victims' (don't like the word, can't think of a better one) wouldn't like to be constantly brought into the lime light with people searching up who the criminal is and what they did etc, you have to think about both sides.

I don't think things will change in regard to this because I haven't heard enough people think differently to me, in my area nobody does. They think they are evil buggers and shouldn't be out, but they don't think we should know what he did just where he is.

If anyone posting is doing so in regard to my posts please quote else I wont know what you mean


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

According to the one thing I've read, so far in total they've cost the taxpayers £5.5 million. And don't take this as gospel but I think it said that rehoming them and giving them new identities cost over £1million.
As far as I'm concerned no criminal deserves to have that much of the publics money spent on protecting them. 
x

ps Jon Venables 'returned to Liverpool for drug-fuelled nights out' - Telegraph

If that's true... I really have no words. Sorry/guilty/remorseful- my arse.
x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> According to the one thing I've read, so far in total they've cost the taxpayers £5.5 million. And don't take this as gospel but I think it said that rehoming them and giving them new identities cost over £1million.
> As far as I'm concerned no criminal deserves to have that much of the publics money spent on protecting them.
> x
> 
> ...


This is it though, its a lose lose scenario.

Keep them in prison, costs loads.

Keep them in society, costs money and risky.

Kill them, lots of people say murder is then hypocritical as two wrongs don't make a right.

I think they should just be kept away somewhere completely away from the public, but I also think there are many criminals out there who should be the same, yet they are just let out as well, its not JUST Jon Venables its the whole system.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i read that aswell, and looking at it its cheaper to the tax payer to keep them in prison 

i dont think they wouldve ever have served enough time even after they are dead, for what they did to james 

It makes me feel abit sick reading people wanted 10yrs olds to be hanged/fried/murdered e.t.c 

they shouldve have been allowed out, 8yrs isnt a long time considering what they did, but then thats what its like here kill someone be good in prison and off you go within a few years


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HarryHamster2 said:


> Public opinion matters, and yes if we kick up a stink enough then it will change!! People need to start to respect humans as much as they do animals. The amount of posts that have been written on here where animals have been hurt or killed, and you guys ask for blood! Why do we find it soooo hard to do the same thing with our own kind??? Surely our children are this worlds only hope?? Do they not need to be protected??? I think some of you really need to look into what really is important in this world and stop living in your own lil world!! Cause while you do that NOTHING will ever change for anyone else! As a race, as a team of many voices, we do and can change things for the better!!


I have never valued an animals life over a child!! u are making sweeping statements here! I dont think I live in my own little world! your beginning to offend me actually! I DO CARE!!! I CARE PASSIONATELY yes our children should be protected! Yes the legal system needs changing! it has done for many years now! what I dont agree with you is that u say those that have differing opinions do not care!! that is untrue! I think the public sometimes are very macabre!! they love to know the gory details!!! but why???? what does it achieve??? I am personally just relived that he is back in prison!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Daynna said:


> i read that aswell, and looking at it its cheaper to the tax payer to keep them in prison
> 
> i dont think they wouldve ever have served enough time even after they are dead, for what they did to james
> 
> ...


*I for one wasn't saying they should have been fried at 10years of age.But he's not a kid anymore.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats true suzy and i wish this country would stop pussyfooting around evil gits like JV.*


Very True Jan - LIFE SHOULD MEAN LIFE!


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

HarryHamster2 said:


> You cant EVER say that just because someone is out of prison that they wil NEVER do anything again!!!!! We do have a right to know who is living in our area!!!!! I tell you what some of you guys shock me!!! Some of you cant be mothers!!! Surely if you are you would want to protect your children at all cost!!!! Knowing who lives in your area and that your area is SAFE for your children to play in is THE most important thing than giving these sick sick people anonimity (sp) Cause if you really think that these guys really do deserve to be left alone and noone to know where they are........I hope to god that its not your kid that is next hurt by one of these guys cause you dont wanna know who lives by you!!!!!! Once someone has done something like this is is a 50/50 chance they will do something like it again!! FACT!! I dont EVER want to take that chance with my child!!!! Sorry my child is way more important than a sick evil person!!!!!!


Ok get off your high horse and dont bring our children into it, i'd kill for my children but i dont know if i could kill another CHILD (as thats what they were at the time) 
How can you say about kids being hurt e.t.c I imagine there are THOUSANDS of people were you live who have been in trouble with the police/have killed/been a peadophile YOU will never know whats around the corner for your self and your children. no point ranting away about something you can ever change all you can do as a parent is watch your children, make your own choices (i.e if you let them out to play alone or not) its your choices as parents that puts many children at risk.

If anything ever happened to my children i'd want to hunt them down and make them suffer, but not another child. Havin been through something life changing and trust shattering caused by a nearly 10yr boy to my own (at the time) 4yr old boy, i can see where alot of blame is the parents and up bringing (not all!) do i wish this boy harm no i wish the right people would help him before something even worse happens all i can do now is protect my son from him and not put him in a situation again were hes at risk


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Tinsley said:


> This is it though, its a lose lose scenario.
> 
> Keep them in prison, costs loads.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. It's not just this case, it's just that this one is so emotive that it fires people up enough to talk about it. It's the whole damn system that just doesn't work. Not even a little bit. I don't think 2 wrongs make a right either, but prison is too cushy (IMO), being released isn't punishment and is too risky and killing them is being just as bad as they are. 
x


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one wasn't saying they should have been fried at 10years of age.But he's not a kid anymore.*


No hes not, but it it any better to kill him as an adult for a crime he did at 10? im not sure... i think i'd rather see him suffer everyday in prison knowing what he did, and being reminded of what he did everytime a child in the news is killed, everytime he sees James mother on tv i hope he feels like dying

death would be their release, why shouldnt they feel the guilt and pain every day until they die of natural causes


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> Completely agree. It's not just this case, it's just that this one is so emotive that it fires people up enough to talk about it. It's the whole damn system that just doesn't work. Not even a little bit. I don't think 2 wrongs make a right either, but prison is too cushy (IMO), being released isn't punishment and is too risky and killing them is being just as bad as they are.
> x


Urgh don't start me on prisons :nonod: the only little bit about it that makes me feel better is at least I can go anywhere and they are restricted (pretty much) to the prison. Its not enough though, they deserve the basics and that's it I think.

£2 a week for a game cube all week I think it was and they get a £12 a week allowance. At least make the gamecube £50 for a week so they have to earn the bloody thing


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Daynna said:


> No hes not, but it it any better to kill him as an adult for a crime he did at 10? im not sure... i think i'd rather see him suffer everyday in prison knowing what he did, and being reminded of what he did everytime a child in the news is killed, everytime he sees James mother on tv i hope he feels like dying
> 
> death would be their release, why shouldnt they feel the guilt and pain every day until they die of natural causes


*I don't think he will suffer unless everyone gets to know what he now looks like.Some people dont have it in then to feel remorse.where i live we have 3 prisons and it p*sses me off big time how much money is spent on "the prisoners rights"..Murderers gave up their "rights" when they chose to take anothers life.*


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Daynna said:


> No hes not, but it it any better to kill him as an adult for a crime he did at 10? im not sure... i think i'd rather see him suffer everyday in prison knowing what he did, and being reminded of what he did everytime a child in the news is killed, everytime he sees James mother on tv i hope he feels like dying
> 
> death would be their release, why shouldnt they feel the guilt and pain every day until they die of natural causes


That's -if- they (any prisoner this is) suffer in prison, prisons are pretty cushy, as Tinsley said £2 a week for a gamecube and they get given £12 a week anyway. And that's -if- they even feel guilt or remorse at all. I'm not argueing for capital punishment at all, far from it. But saying that they are being punished in prison isn't necesarily true either. There have been quite a few cases where people have been released and the first thing they've done it get put back in prison because life was much more comfortable in there than it was in the real world.
x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Daynna said:


> If anything ever happened to my children i'd want to hunt them down and make them suffer, but not another child. Havin been through something life changing and trust shattering caused by a nearly 10yr boy to my own (at the time) 4yr old boy, i can see where alot of blame is the parents and up bringing (not all!) do i wish this boy harm no i wish the right people would help him before something even worse happens all i can do now is protect my son from him and not put him in a situation again were hes at risk


100% agree with you, very good post and I'm sorry to hear your son has had a rough time 

We can't sit here and make assumptions on the basis of what ALL parents want and ALL people think this, I think people do have rights if they commit a crime they just don't deserve to be out in society with the rest of us and don't deserve a cushty life, they should have to work and pay tax etc that we all do just outside of society and in their prison or whatever.

I for one don't think knowing specifics and the names of criminals is any good whatsoever, I'd like to know why anyone thinks knowing details of the criminal (this will naturally include the victim) and what they did/where they are is beneficial? The people affected like the victim shouldn't have to deal with that every day for the rest of their life, we need to let them get on with it.

I think its such a shame we all seem to want Jon Venables beaten up real bad just because this case is in the paper, surely every other murderer/rapist/abuser deserves the same, yet Jon Venables is the one we all want to get it, how does that set the standard for others who have done horrible crimes too, but slip through the net becuase it wasn't in the papers? We need to do it the right way, not this way.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I also think we as a society have a lot to answer for with regards to how violent some kids are today - all the horror movies/video games they play which condone violence are ubeleivable ! Im not saying that all kids that watch/play these are gonna go out and kill but what is it teaching our children??? its telling them violence is OK!! its telling them to look at women as prostitues/hoes etc its telling them they get reward for being violent! - I know lots of mothers who allow their 7 yr old boys to play these kinds of games - and to say it has no impact at all is highly niave imo.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I think prisoners should have to -earn- any 'extras' that they want- games, consoles- anything actually. If it's outside of food/water/bed, I think thy should have to earn it. But thanks to the EU they have 'human rights' and get what seems like rewarded almost for doing what the rest of us manage to do everyday ie- not get in trouble.
To be released they actually have to EARN IT! Not just get released for 'not getting in trouble', do you know what I mean? 
Just read this other story that was out last year of a guy using tax payers money to try and campaign for his right to vote and the EU said that the UKs ban on prisoners being able to vote was unlawful and breaching thier human rights.
Why should people that can't be bothered to uphold the law/live by the law, be protected by the law? They ignore it on one hand but want everything it offers on the other.
x


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I don't think he will suffer unless everyone gets to know what he now looks like.Some people dont have it in then to feel remorse.where i live we have 3 prisons and it p*sses me off big time how much money is spent on "the prisoners rights"..Murderers gave up their "rights" when they chose to take anothers life.*


Yes they do, but this case is very very different to a normal case as they were children when they killed. so they have different rights as such then adults. You cant treat a 10yr and one with development delays the same as an adult. 


Stephny691 said:


> That's -if- they (any prisoner this is) suffer in prison, prisons are pretty cushy, as Tinsley said £2 a week for a gamecube and they get given £12 a week anyway. And that's -if- they even feel guilt or remorse at all. I'm not argueing for capital punishment at all, far from it. But saying that they are being punished in prison isn't necesarily true either. There have been quite a few cases where people have been released and the first thing they've done it get put back in prison because life was much more comfortable in there than it was in the real world.
> 
> x


 i dont think they shouldve been given any money to spend on anything they get fed they have a roof. they shouldnt be allowed a "normal" life, i know someone who has spent nearly 10yrs in and out of prison from the age of 16 i asked him why he kept going back- its harder in the real world, in prison he gets fed well, money, does "jobs", the list went on.



Tinsley said:


> 100% agree with you, very good post and I'm sorry to hear your son has had a rough time


 Thank you, thankfully my son was abit to young to understand the seriousness of it and we found out quickly before it esculated to more. Hopefully as he'll get older he wont really remember



suzy93074 said:


> I also think we as a society have a lot to answer for with regards to how violent some kids are today - all the horror movies/video games they play which condone violence are ubeleivable ! Im not saying that all kids that watch/play these are gonna go out and kill but what is it teaching our children??? its telling them violence is OK!! its telling them to look at women as prostitues/hoes etc its telling them they get reward for being violent! - I know lots of mothers who allow their 7 yr old boys to play these kinds of games - and to say it has no impact at all is highly niave imo.


totally agree, these ages are 18 for a reason


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Imo these 2 are no better than Hindley and Brady,and what good did it do keeping those 2 alive? None.*


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

It's like my husband said they aren't kids anymore so why are they still being protected.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> Doesn't mean you have to know what it is if he's in prison as you won't know who he is to be careful of!


no it does...simply because if it was anything worth worrying about it would cause a carryon as to why these boys were given the freedom and privacy they were given when quite obviously they deserved non of it!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Daynna said:


> i read that aswell, and looking at it its cheaper to the tax payer to keep them in prison
> 
> i dont think they wouldve ever have served enough time even after they are dead, for what they did to james
> 
> ...


yes they were 10 years old but they obviously knew what they were doing so why shouldnt they have been punished goes for all kids that age and up they obviously knew what they were doin and who in their right mind would think it was right....no one! it disgusting and sick! i havnt said they should have been hanged fried or murderd but im not sayin they shouldnt now, my point was that if that little boy was my child boy i wouldav done the same back if i got half the chance, thats just how i feel because my daughter is the same age as that little boy and the thot of her going through that madens me!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Indie said:


> It's like my husband said they aren't kids anymore so why are they still being protected.


thats exactly what i think! i realy do hope its haunted them right up til now i really do and hope it continues to haunt them!!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> no it does...simply because if it was anything worth worrying about it would cause a carryon as to why these boys were given the freedom and privacy they were given when quite obviously they deserved non of it!


I think enough people have pre judged what was meant to have been done anyway. I really don't see the point, nothing will change all that will happen is he would get battered and get superb medical care or killed and the he wont be paying for anything at all. In this instance I agree with the system in that we don't have to know the specifics, just where he is.

I think people need to calm down and look at it from the perspective of a bystander and not a parent, because being defensive doesn't always get you anywhere, imagine if you did know and a Mum who relates just gets so frustrated and angry he is out etc and kills him, then her life is done for and her children's damaged too, and their family etc its a knock on effect.

I HATE the way we sit there and go 'we have the right to this and the right to that', look at those two boys recently, they will be torn apart everytime this comes into the media but people just put the 'we have the right to know' hat on and forget about them, the people who need help. IMO we have the right to very little in this world and that attitude really doesn't go down well with me, it directly involves the Bulger family and THEY have the right to know. That is what should be campaigned for not everyone has the right to know. That's bottom of the list for me.

I rarely agree with my Grandmother, she goes on about how we have the 'because we're worth it/because we deserve it' attitude and how it is so wrong, I agree with her on that here. Lets get the basic bases covered before we get so angry/defensive about this, the Bulger family have more of a right to know and if they don't and wont know I think we should leave it altogther tbh.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

i just think prison is far too comfortable place for people or children who commit murders rapists child abuse anything of that sort why should they be fed clothed watered bathed and also have privallages such as tv and a bed to sleep on why should they be aloud things like this?? i know shouting and swearing wont make any difrence but it maddens me to think they would and others who comit these crimes, be better off in a nice cell with no worrys or nothing to pay


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Indie said:


> It's like my husband said they aren't kids anymore so why are they still being protected.


exactly, they have proven they dont deserve to be protected. and also what does it tell young children today?? dont worry the worse your crime the bigger and better your rewards...

it makes me sick


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> i just think prison is far too comfortable place for people or children who commit murders rapists child abuse anything of that sort why should they be fed clothed watered bathed and also have privallages such as tv and a bed to sleep on why should they be aloud things like this?? i know shouting and swearing wont make any difrence but it maddens me to think they would and others who comit these crimes, be better off in a nice cell with no worrys or nothing to pay


I agree with you on that 100%, its just such a waste of time and energy getting hett up about these things now that I don't even bother


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I also think we as a society have a lot to answer for with regards to how violent some kids are today - all the horror movies/video games they play which condone violence are ubeleivable ! Im not saying that all kids that watch/play these are gonna go out and kill but what is it teaching our children??? its telling them violence is OK!! its telling them to look at women as prostitues/hoes etc its telling them they get reward for being violent! - I know lots of mothers who allow their 7 yr old boys to play these kinds of games - and to say it has no impact at all is highly niave imo.


I'm an avid gamer and I agree some games should never be played by children at all (eg.grand theft auto)

I play games where theres shooting, war, blood, dead zombies running at you, swearing/cussing, obscene things at times. I play them for hours sometimes because of the enjoyment I get out of them. I also play games like brain age, ninten dogs, plants vs Zombie, Mario, etc

Has it made me think violence is acceptable no it hasnt. I have only ever hit someone once with the intent to hurt them and that was a girl who bullied me for years and I finally lashed out as a child because she wouldnt leave me alone and I couldnt get away.

I'm not trying to pick a fight I just wanted to say that not every child who has and does play games think violence is acceptable. But I do know children that do and that is down to parenting skills.

I find being a gamer I know which games are good and which games are just down right wrong for kids and maybe the odd adult to play. So when I have kids of my own I can steer them clear from them. 

Now Im off to kill some Zombies


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> I'm an avid gamer and I agree some games should never be played by children at all (eg.grand theft auto)
> 
> I play games where theres shooting, war, blood, dead zombies running at you, swearing/cussing, obscene things at times. I play them for hours sometimes because of the enjoyment I get out of them. I also play games like brain age, ninten dogs, plants vs Zombie, Mario, etc
> 
> ...


I did say that not all children who play these games go out and act on them and yes i have played them too-  Im just saying that a lot of kids who play these games 24/7 can perhaps get a blinkered vision on things, especially violence...what you also have to take into account is that your are a girl I think with boys its a whole different ball game, boys are naturally I think more aggresive than girls and this aggression should be channeled in the correct way ie sports etc, My OH has got grand theft auto and i think its extremely violent its not just about killing the baddies in this game its about killing innocent bystanders,its about the abuse of women and how they are portrayed, all these things have an impact on impressionable young minds - I think as a society we do seem to glorify violence - in games/tv and also music - how many young lads think its hard and cool to listen to gangster rappers bragging about who they shot and life in prison - they wanna be like them! - Im not gereralising here but there are a huge amount of young boys who look up to this kind of life style you are right in that it comes down to parenting skills but sadly so many parents allow young children to watch/play/listen to all these things from a very early age.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I dont agree with young children playing these game but i dont agree it makes them into the violent monsters that the like of venables and thompson and we cant start blaming everything a child does on them i do think that if games have this effect on a child that commits crimes like they have just brought to the surface what was there anyway else all kids that play them would go out and kill. In todays society people are always looking for a cop out trying to find a reason and blame everyone else, about time people took responsibility for their own actions.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Jon Venables faces a sex charge | The Sun |News

just an article i found today, newspaper aren't trustworthy but thought i'd put it on here

i hope he stays in prison for rest of his life. feel so so sorry for James Bulgers family and of course poor James 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2879536/Bulger-killer-cover-blown.html i think the poor mother has the right to know at least


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*If what they are saying is true then i believe 100% his identity should be known.Tough luck on him if other prisoners take the law into their own hands.*


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *If what they are saying is true then i believe 100% his identity should be known.Tough luck on him if other prisoners take the law into their own hands.*


thats what i was saying to Chris earlier i think his identity is going to come out regardless of security and secrecy...he's so hated (not surprisingly mind!)...someone will serve it up to someone else then everyone will know


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *If what they are saying is true then i believe 100% his identity should be known.Tough luck on him if other prisoners take the law into their own hands.*


i agree, he was granted (wrongly i believe) anonymity for the evil murer of jamie, he has commited another crime and he should not be allowd anonymity for that. he is just proving how much of a joke the justice system is and how evil he really is.

maybe when the other the prisoners find out who he is they will do what alot of people want to do.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

mumof5 said:


> i agree, he was granted (wrongly i believe) anonymity for the evil murer of jamie, he has commited another crime and he should not be allowd anonymity for that. he is just proving how much of a joke the justice system is and how evil he really is.
> 
> maybe when the other the prisoners find out who he is they will do what alot of people want to do.


I know they will, even the most hardened criminals in prison hate child molesters and child killers and believe me they do get what they deserve his life will not be worth living, segregation doesnt work either, OOOOP's they forgot to lock the dividing gate.


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I know they will, even the most hardened criminals in prison hate child molesters and child killers and believe me they do get what they deserve his life will not be worth living, segregation doesnt work either, OOOOP's they forgot to lock the dividing gate.


  atleast justice will be done then


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

mumof5 said:


> atleast justice will be done then


Oh yeah, cant wait to see the day


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I dunno how much I trust The Sun's reporting tbf. It sounds like a teenager wrote that article 
I can'tbelieve the people he worked with or lived next door to haven't twigged who their mysterious dissapearing neighbour is! 
As someone else said if he gets found out in jail that'll be the end of him now he's in an adult prison. Prisoners will rape people, torture them, do horrible things to them- but you never touch kids, it's like the golden rule in prison. 
x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Oh here's another sickening thought,in this article it says if he is given yet ANOTHER new identity it will cost the tax payer another £250,000.
Jon Venables 'broke parole conditions with drunken nights out in Liverpool' - Telegraph*


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I dunno how much I trust The Sun's reporting tbf. It sounds like a teenager wrote that article
> I can'tbelieve the people he worked with or lived next door to haven't twigged who their mysterious dissapearing neighbour is!
> As someone else said if he gets found out in jail that'll be the end of him now he's in an adult prison. Prisoners will rape people, torture them, do horrible things to them- but you never touch kids, it's like the golden rule in prison.
> x


But they were children when this happen so how is hurting/killing them as a adults makeing it better. I actually find it quite sick what people are saying here have defiently lost my faith in humans today


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> But they were children when this happen so how is hurting/killing them as a adults makeing it better. I actually find it quite sick what people are saying here have defiently lost my faith in humans today


I know how you feel, I lose faith quite regularly in mankind, its a nice change when something restores my faith a little 

People get put in special prisons with their own kind anyway. There is sex offenders prison near to me and none of them get beaten up as they are all equal to one another, literally they all get on and everything.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> But they were children when this happen so how is hurting/killing them as a adults makeing it better. I actually find it quite sick what people are saying here have defiently lost my faith in humans today


They were only children but at 10 years old they knew that what they wer doing was wrong despite whatever made them do it is errelevant someones child/baby was killed and despite all the money it has cost to re-abilitate him he has done wrong again, whether 2 rights make a wrong or not anyone who feels the need to potect him or anyone else like him needs to spare a thought for what that child went through on that day and what the parents have had to live through ever since.

The same could very easily happen again if the justice system doesnt get their act together and deal with them then no one would feel the way we do today as despite the fact it cant bring the victim back everyone would feel that the offender has suffered as well.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

I was just about to say Jan it said on the news last night if he is recognised they are going to give him another new identity.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> But they were children when this happen so how is hurting/killing them as a adults makeing it better. I actually find it quite sick what people are saying here have defiently lost my faith in humans today


*They are not children now, they are grown men.How can anyone justify 2 useless and worthless pillocks (i'm being polite) being given all these damn rights,when they took away Jamies RIGHT to live? As for loosing faith in the human race, i agree with you but for totaly opposite reasons..*


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> I know how you feel, I lose faith quite regularly in mankind, its a nice change when something restores my faith a little
> 
> People get put in special prisons with their own kind anyway. There is sex offenders prison near to me and none of them get beaten up as they are all equal to one another, literally they all get on and everything.


Well I hope someone can restore my faith in humans cause at the moment it is at an all time zero 



haeveymolly said:


> They were only children but at 10 years old they knew that what they wer doing was wrong despite whatever made them do it is errelevant someones child/baby was killed and despite all the money it has cost to re-abilitate him he has done wrong again, whether 2 rights make a wrong or not anyone who feels the need to potect him or anyone else like him needs to spare a thought for what that child went through on that day and what the parents have had to live through ever since.
> 
> The same could very easily happen again if the justice system doesnt get their act together and deal with them then no one would feel the way we do today as despite the fact it cant bring the victim back everyone would feel that the offender has suffered as well.


So what would you like to see (without saying murder, hurt and kill them)to be done?



JANICE199 said:


> *They are not children now, they are grown men.How can anyone justify 2 useless and worthless pillocks (i'm being polite) being given all these damn rights,when they took away Jamies RIGHT to live? As for loosing faith in the human race, i agree with you but for totaly opposite reasons..*


So what difference does it make that they are adults, they were children at the time of the crime. What now that they hit adulthood there fair game?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Undoubtedly I agree its gone too far and the boundaries have been pushed, he loses all right to live out in society, but I don't think we should tell everyone who he is because of that, I think just leave it as it is and put him in prison with all the other criminals, doesn't mean we should shout who he is from the roof tops though so he gets done over. 

It almost gives the impression this crime because it is in the news is more important than other crimes which is why I think there needs to be a uniform approach as to how they are dealt with. To be honest I feel it a kick in the teeth almost the way people care about this one person who has done wrong yet don't comment on rapists etc who do wrong time and time again, they are all the same it isn't JUST Jon Venables committing multiple crimes, please detach it slightly from the one case and make it more generalised for all criminals because there are so many out there who do horendous crimes over and over and over and over again.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Well I hope someone can restore my faith in humans cause at the moment it is at an all time zero
> 
> So what would you like to see (without saying murder, hurt and kill them)to be done?
> 
> So what difference does it make that they are adults, they were children at the time of the crime. What now that they hit adulthood there fair game?



*Ok as children people can argue they didn't know right from wrong.They are now grown men,they are old enough to know right from wrong,they know what its like to have their freedom taken away,but jon veables has CHOSEN to go against the rules and for that alone he needs to pay the price.Which lets face it,he will know.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Ok as children people can argue they didn't know right from wrong.They are now grown men,they are old enough to know right from wrong,they know what its like to have their freedom taken away,but jon veables has CHOSEN to go against the rules and for that alone he needs to pay the price.Which lets face it,he will know.*


Prisons aren't a bad place to live though, bearing in mind having a not great childhood, living under a false name etc and lying about who you are its not much on an incentive to behave when you can go back to an OK lifestyle where things are pretty much free.

If it was tougher having your freedom taken away I am sure he and others would care more, but its not seen as much of a punishment to some is it


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Ok as children people can argue they didn't know right from wrong.They are now grown men,they are old enough to know right from wrong,they know what its like to have their freedom taken away,but jon veables has CHOSEN to go against the rules and for that alone he needs to pay the price.Which lets face it,he will know.*


What should that price be? Killed?

(Im sorry I am replying in somewhat short replies its because its only 7 am and at 6 am someone woke me up because they ripped a painting off the wall, knocked over a book case and a mirror and my eyes are burning from a lack of sleep. I just had to try to remeber how to write sleep)


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

He has just broken the rules again and is now an adult so should be dealt with accordingly as an adult. If he has got a new name etc other prisoners may not click who he is unless of course he hasnt changed at all then he may be recognised, but i do think they should at least tell Jamies mum what he's in for.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Tinsley said:



Prisons aren't a bad place to live though, bearing in mind having a not great childhood, living under a false name etc and lying about who you are its not much on an incentive to behave when you can go back to an OK lifestyle where things are pretty much free.

If it was tougher having your freedom taken away I am sure he and others would care more, but its not seen as much of a punishment to some is it 

Click to expand...

Perhaps it time we went back to the "dark ages" where prison wasn't a place so cushty.



Miss.PuddyCat said:



What should that price be? Killed?

(Im sorry I am replying in somewhat short replies its because its only 7 am and at 6 am someone woke me up because they ripped a painting off the wall, knocked over a book case and a mirror and my eyes are burning from a lack of sleep. I just had to try to remeber how to write sleep)

Click to expand...

Perhaps thats a question that people that care so much for these type of morons should ask the victims families.If it was down to me,knowing there isn't a shadow of doubt that these 2 killed jamie then yes i'd bring back the death sentence.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> Perhaps it time we went back to the "dark ages" where prison wasn't a place so cushty.*
> 
> Perhaps thats a question that people that care so much for these type of morons should ask the victims families.If it was down to me,knowing there isn't a shadow of doubt that these 2 killed jamie then yes i'd bring back the death sentence.


I think it is time we go back to the dark ages!! Prisons abroad have multiple people in cells and horrid living conditions, don't we have the most people imprisoned in this country or something? We definitely need to make prison a not nice experience for people in there.

Re the death sentence I don't know what I think about it, some people say society then becomes hypocritical. I'd rather they be locked up day and night with bugger all to do, nothing to do except think about what they did etc, no games consoles/tv etc unless they physically earn them and that they aren't cheap etc either. I think they should have to pay rent in a prison too tbh, have to do some sort of job like making sculptures, and if they manage to sell they get food, it shouldn't be free to be in prison :nonod:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> I think it is time we go back to the dark ages!! Prisons abroad have multiple people in cells and horrid living conditions, don't we have the most people imprisoned in this country or something? We definitely need to make prison a not nice experience for people in there.
> 
> Re the death sentence I don't know what I think about it, some people say society then becomes hypocritical. I'd rather they be locked up day and night with bugger all to do, nothing to do except think about what they did etc, no games consoles/tv etc unless they physically earn them and that they aren't cheap etc either. I think they should have to pay rent in a prison too tbh, have to do some sort of job like making sculptures, and if they manage to sell they get food, it shouldn't be free to be in prison :nonod:


*I keep searching the internet to see just how much we have to pay to keep killers in prison but i can't find anything up to date.I agree they shouldn't have any freedom let alone all the goodies they get.We as a society have become too soft and the like of Jon Venables just take the p*ss.*


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I keep searching the internet to see just how much we have to pay to keep killers in prison but i can't find anything up to date.I agree they shouldn't have any freedom let alone all the goodies they get.We as a society have become too soft and the like of Jon Venables just take the p*ss.*


i saw a thing in american..tent city or something prison..god they were strict they weren't allowed any privledges even coffee yet prisons over here they can have sky tv! and i've seen via a few friends on facebook guys that are taking pictures of themselves in prison...yeah really learning a lesson


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RockRomantic said:


> i saw a thing in american..tent city or something prison..god they were strict they weren't allowed any privledges even coffee yet prisons over here they can have sky tv! and i've seen via a few friends on facebook guys that are taking pictures of themselves in prison...yeah really learning a lesson


*Oh don't start me on how well off they are,i know 2 prison officers and they were saying how the inmates not only have telly in their cells but complained because they didn't have the remotes for them.And not lets forget they now have computers as well.Well done joe public for having to pay for these holidays.*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything as I have not read all posts.

They said on TV that the police will not release details until they have got all the details they need if they are going to charge him. So if it does go to trail they will not be any loop holes in their case.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Well I hope someone can restore my faith in humans cause at the moment it is at an all time zero
> 
> So what would you like to see (without saying murder, hurt and kill them)to be done?
> 
> So what difference does it make that they are adults, they were children at the time of the crime. What now that they hit adulthood there fair game?


I would like to see them locked away for life you take a life then you should give your own life, they should be given no luxuries like they get in prisons today, in the event that they do come out we shouldnt be made to pay to keep them protected, why on earth should we and why on earth or how on earth did they earn the right to be protected. Let them out and they have to trust to luck.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I would like to see them locked away for life you take a life then you should give your own life, they should be given no luxuries like they get in prisons today, in the event that they do come out we shouldnt be made to pay to keep them protected, why on earth should we and why on earth or how on earth did they earn the right to be protected. Let them out and they have to trust to luck.


because if they werent protected people would kill him, those people that killed him would then go to jail, the costs to the public would be more then it is to protect them and yet more lifes would be ruined through him.

they would have to jail those people even tho nobody would want them to, they wouldve committed murder, so considered the same as john v himself in the eyes of the law.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I wasn't saying we should kill them at all. I think death is an easy way out for these people. I think they should be kept locked away (as all other prisoners should be, not just these two) and be made to pay. Not get given luxuries, not get given huge cells with sky tv and video games. They broke the law and are therefore not entitled to be given the same liberties as the people that haven't broken the law.
Just locked away in a tiny cell and they have to work their b*ll*cks off for every item that they decide they want. 
Don't forget a couple of weeks ago the prisoners that were taken pics on phones and putting them up on facebook and bragging about how easy they got let off and that they'd be let out soon.
I don't agree with Capital Punishment, but I don't think our current legal/justice system in anyway helps rehabilitate criminals, helps the victims (don't like that word but don't know what else to use) families, and I certainly don't think it punishes them.
I don't think we, as the public, have a -right- to know what he did. But I think everyone -wants- to know so we can judge whether or not he's punished appropriately for it, because none of us have faith in the justice system.
x


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Daynna said:


> because if they werent protected people would kill him, those people that killed him would then go to jail, the costs to the public would be more then it is to protect them and yet more lifes would be ruined through him.
> 
> they would have to jail those people even tho nobody would want them to, they wouldve committed murder, so considered the same as john v himself in the eyes of the law.


Exactly right! thats why its so frustrating as the offender wins again. Thats why the innocent public needs to see harsher punishment and he should never have been let out so therefore no need for the costly identity change.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I wasn't saying we should kill them at all. I think death is an easy way out for these people. I think they should be kept locked away (as all other prisoners should be, not just these two) and be made to pay. Not get given luxuries, not get given huge cells with sky tv and video games. They broke the law and are therefore not entitled to be given the same liberties as the people that haven't broken the law.
> Just locked away in a tiny cell and they have to work their b*ll*cks off for every item that they decide they want.
> Don't forget a couple of weeks ago the prisoners that were taken pics on phones and putting them up on facebook and bragging about how easy they got let off and that they'd be let out soon.
> I don't agree with Capital Punishment, but I don't think our current legal/justice system in anyway helps rehabilitate criminals, helps the victims (don't like that word but don't know what else to use) families, and I certainly don't think it punishes them.
> ...


that how i feel they should suffer, it shouldnt be the cushy jail we have.

The only person who should have an idea of whats happening is james parents, they are the people most effected by this


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I wasn't saying we should kill them at all. I think death is an easy way out for these people. I think they should be kept locked away (as all other prisoners should be, not just these two) and be made to pay. Not get given luxuries, not get given huge cells with sky tv and video games. They broke the law and are therefore not entitled to be given the same liberties as the people that haven't broken the law.
> Just locked away in a tiny cell and they have to work their b*ll*cks off for every item that they decide they want.
> Don't forget a couple of weeks ago the prisoners that were taken pics on phones and putting them up on facebook and bragging about how easy they got let off and that they'd be let out soon.
> I don't agree with Capital Punishment, but I don't think our current legal/justice system in anyway helps rehabilitate criminals, helps the victims (don't like that word but don't know what else to use) families, and I certainly don't think it punishes them.
> ...


I agree there are people that work everyday that cant afford the luxuries that these prisoners have, no one on here or anywhere else can say thats right and justify it.


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## Pug_D (Feb 21, 2010)

I can understand why a goverment would protect a 10 year olds identity from the public.

I can almost understand protecting them when they turn 18 (though I don not agree with it)

What I don't understand is why they are still protecting this man at 27 years old when he has gone on to reoffend. He is an adult now, why should he go on to get yet another new identity when hes released (if hes released which I hope doesn't happen)

Criminals leave prison daily with their original identies, surely part of the punishment process is living with the crime you have comiited?

Not being given a fresh new start to put your crime behind you?

The victims familes don't get to forget


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Jon Venables one of the two boys responcible for James Bulgers murder is back behind bars.The thing that puzzles me is WHY wont they say why he is back in custody.Any thoughts?
> 
> James Bulger killer back behind bars | Jon Venables*


Sex Offences again, and he is getting another Identity at the cost of £250K OR OUR MONEY, HE DONT DESERVE AN IDENTITY. HE DID THIS HIMSELF SO SHOULD FACE WHAT IS THROWN AT HIM.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

The details of his return to prison are a little sketchy but apparently he attacked a work colleague. So I guess the company he worked for now knows who they had on their payroll!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

His identity was blown and he was attacked by inmate in jail, nice one.
His face being all over the papers people are going to get used to what he looks like (I know he is going to change apperance as he gets older) so they are going to eventually find out who he is.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Zaros said:


> The details of his return to prison are a little sketchy but apparently he attacked a work colleague. So I guess the company he worked for now knows who they had on their payroll!


Thars what i heard as well, thats why its so unfair on the public that no one knows who they are, what happened to the publics rights to know who we are around and working with because ime sure no one would knowingly want to befriend someone like him, just think of the consequences of not knowing him and being a work friend going out together maybe having hin home and around your children and family, its so unfair that we should be put in these sort of situations, but no one knowing who he is is only protecting him wheres our protection, the innocents in all this.

I have wondered a lot about him meeting a girl/woman, living together maybe getting married, having children it doesnt bear thinking about.


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## Pug_D (Feb 21, 2010)

Zaros said:


> The details of his return to prison are a little sketchy but apparently he attacked a work colleague. So I guess the company he worked for now knows who they had on their payroll!


Jack Straw says its a serious allegation, so I doubt its the work thing, The Sun apparantly know the exact details but were stopped from printing them but were only allowed to say hes been involved in a sex crime


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## Pug_D (Feb 21, 2010)

xxwelshcrazyxx said:


> His identity was blown and he was attacked by inmate in jail, nice one.
> His face being all over the papers people are going to get used to what he looks like (I know he is going to change apperance as he gets older) so they are going to eventually find out who he is.


Where did you read he was attacked in jail?

They haven't pictured him as a man, only as a young boy, I think it would be hard to identify him from his 10yr photo alone.

TBH I'm just really angry that he will get another new ID if he ever gets out again,

why are they protecting this man?


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Just said on the news now that it is a very seriuos charge of a sexual nature and if proved could mean a lengthy sentence. Jack Straw is also going to meet up with Jamies mum.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Bulger killer in sex crime claims - Yahoo! News UK


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Indie said:


> Just said on the news now that it is a very seriuos charge of a sexual nature and if proved could mean a lengthy sentence. Jack Straw is also going to meet up with Jamies mum.


Well if it is abuse/sexual crime he as committed then it just proves that he should not have been released from prison in the first place, as I said before how can 8yrs be enough time to evaluate and then decide they are safe to be let out


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

suzy93074 said:


> Well if it is abuse/sexual crime he as committed then it just proves that he should not have been released from prison in the first place, as I said before how can 8yrs be enough time to evaluate and then decide they are safe to be let out


They also said they were going to observe him to see in what state of mind he is physcologically, but i agree 8 years was in no way long enough in the 1st place.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

omg i told u it would or could be something like that evil f*kers is all i can say they should never have been let out


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Indie said:


> They also said they were going to observe him to see in what state of mind he is physcologically, but i agree 8 years was in no way long enough in the 1st place.


I think what they mean is we will observe him and see what excuse we can come up with as to why he has done it. Well violent games will be ruled out as he's a bit old for that one,but then theres always the old favourite, blame the parents, or he were not of sound mind, my god of course you arnt of sound mind when you commit crimes like this, anyone who is of sound mind wouldnt bloody do it, my god if it wasnt so serious it would be laughable.

Sorry to sound so sarcastic but ime sick of excuses been made get tough for gods sake and give these monsters what they deserve.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

haeveymolly said:


> I think what they mean is we will observe him and see what excuse we can come up with as to why he has done it. Well violent games will be ruled out as he's a bit old for that one,but then theres always the old favourite, blame the parents.
> 
> Sorry to sound so sarcastic but ime sick of excuses been made get tough for gods sake and give these monsters what they deserve.


No i understand where you are coming from.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I think what they mean is we will observe him and see what excuse we can come up with as to why he has done it. Well violent games will be ruled out as he's a bit old for that one,but then theres always the old favourite, blame the parents, or he were not of sound mind, my god of course you arnt of sound mind when you commit crimes like this, anyone who is of sound mind wouldnt bloody do it, my god if it wasnt so serious it would be laughable.
> 
> Sorry to sound so sarcastic but ime sick of excuses been made get tough for gods sake and give these monsters what they deserve.


i am all with u they r growen men i just dont get it why cover it why protect them after what theyve done?? its stupid and disgusting....its just been on the news aparently u guys r right its a sexual related crime


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I think what they mean is we will observe him and see what excuse we can come up with as to why he has done it. Well violent games will be ruled out as he's a bit old for that one,but then theres always the old favourite, blame the parents, or he were not of sound mind, my god of course you arnt of sound mind when you commit crimes like this, anyone who is of sound mind wouldnt bloody do it, my god if it wasnt so serious it would be laughable.
> 
> Sorry to sound so sarcastic but ime sick of excuses been made get tough for gods sake and give these monsters what they deserve.


I dont think they are excuses just maybe reasons WHY they turned the way they did??? and surely these questions HAD to be asked in order for the system to decide they were safe to go back into the society!! - no 10yr old would just do this without some history of violence etc It worries me far more they let them out in the first place!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't see why we have to speculate so much, and not just wait to find out the truth.

Part of me wonders if the reason they wont tell James' family is because his Mum always goes straight to the media, everyone saying its a waste of tax payers money, surely Denise Furgus will lose all taxpayers money and put it to waste if his identity is found out/the exact crime etc if she went to the papers?

I really don't think it matters if we know what he's done so long as he's not in society.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> I don't see why we have to speculate so much, and not just wait to find out the truth.
> 
> Part of me wonders if the reason they wont tell James' family is because his Mum always goes straight to the media, everyone saying its a waste of tax payers money, surely Denise Furgus will lose all taxpayers money and put it to waste if his identity is found out/the exact crime etc if she went to the papers?
> 
> I really don't think it matters if we know what he's done so long as he's not in society.


I doubt wether James mum cares or gives a stuff about losing all taxpayers money -she will probably just be so angry and emotional - which I can understand...I dont know if I want to know tbo but I do think they should have told the family of James as soon as he was recalled. it would have ended all this media hype etc.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

suzy93074 said:


> I doubt wether James mum cares or gives a stuff about losing all taxpayers money -she will probably just be so angry and emotional - which I can understand...I dont know if I want to know tbo but I do think they should have told the family of James as soon as he was recalled. it would have ended all this media hype etc.


She didn't even no he was back in there till she heard it in the media.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Indie said:


> She didn't even no he was back in there till she heard it in the media.


Yeah I think the Government have been very insensitive to the family really - they should not have found out that way.....terrible really


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yeah I think the Government have been very insensitive to the family really - they should not have found out that way.....terrible really


it goes to show the government is really there to help the criminals and sod the victims.... its so so sad and no wonder people will take the law into their own hands...

my hearts goes out to james' family, they shouldnt have to keep suffereing but it will never end for them


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

mumof5 said:


> it goes to show the government is really there to help the criminals and sod the victims.... its so so sad and no wonder people will take the law into their own hands...
> 
> my hearts goes out to james' family, they shouldnt have to keep suffereing but it will never end for them


yep u are right hun....they will suffer for the rest of their lives


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont think they are excuses just maybe reasons WHY they turned the way they did??? and surely these questions HAD to be asked in order for the system to decide they were safe to go back into the society!! - no 10yr old would just do this without some history of violence etc It worries me far more they let them out in the first place!


No i agree their first 10 years couldnt have been good and to a certain extent i do feel for kids that have that sort of life but unfortunatly the innocents cant keep suffering for what has happened to them and thousands more. They do make excuses for these people and i dont mean just these 2 boys, if someone can be seen as not been of sound mind they get off a lot lighter, if a crime is drugged fueled they get the chance to stay out of prison as long as they go on a detox programme well as far as ime concerned whatever the reason they have for causing harm or worse killing, then they shouldnt be a place for them on our streets.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> No i agree their first 10 years couldnt have been good and to a certain extent i do feel for kids that have that sort of life but unfortunatly the innocents cant keep suffering for what has happened to them and thousands more. They do make excuses for these people and i dont mean just these 2 boys, if someone can be seen as not been of sound mind they get off a lot lighter, if a crime is drugged fueled they get the chance to stay out of prison as long as they go on a detox programme well as far as ime concerned whatever the reason they have for causing harm or worse killing, then they shouldnt be a place for them on our streets.


Yeah I guess you are right, when it comes to adults they know how to work the system....thats where a lot of the fault lies - the system - it needs to radically change so that the criminals cannot find any loopholes!


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

I do not think Denise gives a flying hoot about money.....why shouldnt she go to the press?? her son is dead, and died needlessly and in pain and scared.
These men ARE responsible. She wants justice for James, and her family.
Just because the years go by it doesnt alter one damn thing. 
And no, by her going to the press - she wouldnt be responsible for 'wasting tax payers money' those who granted them a life time anonymity are the ones who have wasted tax payers money - because if the truth comes out, and another hurtful crime has taken place, then denise has been proved right all these years. Evil as a child, evil as a man. 

They were given a chance - because lets just say, their actions was because of adults had done to them. They got more help than any other abused child in the system would get. Another chance.....to prove those that believe they are evil ( or at least one).
They are adults now. Any other adult that commited a serious crime would be named?? the anonymity should be lifted for the one that has commited again??. It is hypocrtical......


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yeah I guess you are right, when it comes to adults they know how to work the system....thats where a lot of the fault lies - the system - it needs to radically change so that the criminals cannot find any loopholes!


Yes it is the system because who wouldnt work it to their advantage, anyone would go for the better deal the system needs changing, needs to get tougher before long the criminals will be running the country if they arnt already doing to an exent.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

GillyR said:


> I do not think Denise gives a flying hoot about money.....why shouldnt she go to the press?? her son is dead, and died needlessly and in pain and scared.
> These men ARE responsible. She wants justice for James, and her family.
> Just because the years go by it doesnt alter one damn thing.
> And no, by her going to the press - she wouldnt be responsible for 'wasting tax payers money' those who granted them a life time anonymity are the ones who have wasted tax payers money - because if the truth comes out, and another hurtful crime has taken place, then denise has been proved right all these years. Evil as a child, evil as a man.
> ...


Calm down, was only a response to people who go on about the taxpayers money, either way its been lost hasn't it, just making a point for some.

I don't think kids are ever evil, I don't think they are intelligent enough/have enough life experience to fully have the capability to know how to be evil and I worry greatly that people think kids are capable of that. What they did was evil, like what many criminals do is evil, there are a lot of people like that out in this world unfortunately, even on much lower levels of crime.

ETA: I just don't understand why I think the press are involved so much in this case when people don't want them involved in 99% of other cases. Just this week in the papers is about this boy Keith Bennet whose body has never been found, he was killed by the Moors murderers and his Mum who is now in her 70's is still incredibly upset as you would expect, they have never found his body. I almost wish there wasn't such a strong focus on this one case when there are others like this one which are equally as important.

Whilst Brady and Hindley are/were in prison for a very long time, I think it ought to set a president for the case in this thread and we need to remember crimes further back in the past too, so people see you can be in prison for life. (shame its so welcoming/cushty though)..


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Yes it is the system because who wouldnt work it to their advantage, anyone would go for the better deal the system needs changing, needs to get tougher before long the criminals will be running the country if they arnt already doing to an exent.


Agree 100%


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> Calm down, was only a response to people who go on about the taxpayers money, either way its been lost hasn't it, just making a point for some.
> 
> I don't think kids are ever evil, I don't think they are intelligent enough/have enough life experience to fully have the capability to know how to be evil and I worry greatly that people think kids are capable of that. What they did was evil, like what many criminals do is evil, there are a lot of people like that out in this world unfortunately, even on much lower levels of crime.
> 
> ETA: I just don't understand why I think the press are involved so much in this case when people don't want them involved in 99% of other cases. Just this week in the papers is about this boy Keith Bennet whose body has never been found, he was killed by the Moors murderers and his Mum who is now in her 70's is still incredibly upset as you would expect, they have never found his body. I almost wish there wasn't such a strong focus on this one case when there are others like this one which are equally as important.


I agree that all cases are important, however this case in particular was so highlighted by the fact of it being children who commited the crime....and thus people wanted to know how children of that age could commit such a crime. The public are always going to be interested in this case but yes there are other murderers/rapists who have stayed in prison for a long long time...but they were adults when they committed these crimes and plus there were multiple killings so they could never be rehabilitated - the difference is that at 10yrs old - could the boyz be rehabilitated??


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I agree that all cases are important, however this case in particular was so highlighted by the fact of it being children who commited the crime....and thus people wanted to know how children of that age could commit such a crime. The public are always going to be interested in this case but yes there are other murderers/rapists who have stayed in prison for a long long time...but they were adults when they committed these crimes and plus there were multiple killings so they could never be rehabilitated - the difference is that at 10yrs old - could the boyz be rehabilitated??


Well I don't think they were evil so think there is the potential for rehabilitation but its incredibly dangerous. All those saying they are evil I would assume think it is not possible.

I just think its a shame we take so much focus and in depth looking at some cases in particular when there are others that get missed due to the medias immediate influx, do you know what I mean? Obviously to some they are considered less important crimes re rape/child abuse by adults etc but its a shame the media don't give a more rounded picture I think, as some do get worse punishments than others, and these need to be publicised maybe in the potential hope of people realising its not an easy ride wrecking people's lives.

Whatever happens with this case will always be wrong, you can't really do anything right, but I'd like to trust the people who are in charge of releasing them in the first place, the parole boards are often very tough to get by and they wont want to look like idiots and release Venables again any time soon I doubt. We need to sort things out big time, its ludicrous how full the prisons are, can't give out bigger sentences as no space, yet can't attempt to deter people more by giving the harsher sentences due to space etc.

I stand by what I said earlier, they should have to pay rent in prison and do a job for the privelidge of a roof over their heads :nonod:


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> Calm down, was only a response to people who go on about the taxpayers money, either way its been lost hasn't it, just making a point for some.
> 
> I don't think kids are ever evil, I don't think they are intelligent enough/have enough life experience to fully have the capability to know how to be evil and I worry greatly that people think kids are capable of that. What they did was evil, like what many criminals do is evil, there are a lot of people like that out in this world unfortunately, even on much lower levels of crime.
> 
> ...


Maybe....

Its because it knocks our views of children, in western society we see them as innocent, and we are the ones to protect them, ( only in the last hundred or so years, might i add!! ) we mould them to what we want them to be. They have no say, they do what we tell them. 
In other countries children work from the moment they can walk, they are soliders from the moment they are strong enough to carry a gun, they are not seen as innocent, just small people.
So when things like this happen, in westernsociety - children killing - if you take on board the 'notion' of what i have said. Who is to blame?? we are. So the anger we project at them. Is because of our failure.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> Well I don't think they were evil so think there is the potential for rehabilitation but its incredibly dangerous. All those saying they are evil I would assume think it is not possible.
> 
> I just think its a shame we take so much focus and in depth looking at some cases in particular when there are others that get missed due to the medias immediate influx, do you know what I mean? Obviously to some they are considered less important crimes re rape/child abuse by adults etc but its a shame the media don't give a more rounded picture I think, as some do get worse punishments than others, and these need to be publicised maybe in the potential hope of people realising its not an easy ride wrecking people's lives.
> 
> ...


I agree the prisons are deffo an area that needs looking at! - as for being evil well its such a grey area really, I dont believe a child is born evil at all I think what happens in that childs life has massive effect on them now it doesnt have to be a huge trauma or abuse to make someone murder, take Ted Bundy he murdered women mostly because he was knocked back by a women who he wanted to go out with and then did, who then dumped him! he became depressed and then found out that his sister was acutally his mother and the parents who he thought were his parents were his grandparents....does all that warrant murdering many women in such a brutal way?? no -but what one person can deal with another one finds hard, so for me it comes down to how we cope with things that have happend in our lifes and what that "trigger" maybe - now im not saying everyone has that "trigger" but I deffo think some people do.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I think the reason why there is so much interest o this at the moment is because the identity change etc cost so much money and most of the country eas up in arms at the time many said this would happen they would be given all this but they offend again and one of them has done. So its only to be expected, about time public views were taken more seriously, us sitting on the fence so to speak see a hell of a lot more.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

My heart goes out to James mother Denise, she has tried to move forward, had other children and then this comes along, I lost a son through illness but I cannot imagine what this poor woman felt losing a baby at the hands of children, and evil children at that, because at the end of the day a child of 10 should know right and wrong. I myself in that position would want to rip them apart with bare hands. Then to add insult to injury they release them from a cushy Secure Unit where they were not punished in any way, given new identities, passports, and money, well you could say "Rewarded" for a heinous crime, with taxpayers money. Was this the result that Denise wanted, it must have felt to her like having salt rubbed in a wound, and then 17 years down the line, its rearing its ugly head again, to re-open old wounds, this woman as long as she lives, will never know any real peace. What I would like to know is why were they released in the first place, who did it benefit?, and I think the person/s who made this decision should stand up and face the music now. 
When they murdered little James they gave up all rights to anything.

The should have died in prison and rot in hell.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Thing is people are kicking off but NO ONE knows the truth in public, in papers e.t.c they are grasping at straws to why hes back in in two days there has been two TOTALLY different reasons one was an voilent attack while high on drug on a co-worker and another is a sexual attack.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Daynna said:


> Thing is people are kicking off but NO ONE knows the truth in public, in papers e.t.c they are grasping at straws to why hes back in in two days there has been two TOTALLY different reasons one was an voilent attack while high on drug on a co-worker and another is a sexual attack.


Jack Straw has confirmed today that it is a very serious offence and is of the sexual type.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

On the day that they abducted James from Bootle Strand, me and my mum were there and they asked her for money for the pay phone. And now she wishes she gave them some because it would have maybe prevented them doing from what they did


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

CharleyRogan said:


> On the day that they abducted James from Bootle Strand, me and my mum were there and they asked her for money for the pay phone. And now she wishes she gave them some because it would have maybe prevented them doing from what they did


your mum isn't to blame.


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## welshdoglover (Aug 31, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> On the day that they abducted James from Bootle Strand, me and my mum were there and they asked her for money for the pay phone. And now she wishes she gave them some because it would have maybe prevented them doing from what they did


OMG, a terrible crime they did. However, it goes to show how far reaching the effects of what they did had on other people.

Apparently, tonight they're saying its child porn. Which if true, then Mrs Fergus was right to believe that they were released too soon, she was also adament they would commit further crimes.

If true, then the probation service might have a few questions to answer in the coming weeks.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Well this is the latest,appaerntly he was sent back for child porn.
VENABLES IN PRISON OVER CHILD PORN - mirror.co.uk

I wonder,IF this is true what excuses all the dogooders will come up with now.*


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

bring back capital punishment, he has proven this is all he is good for.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

'Probation officers became particularly concerned when they discovered that he was publicly revealing his identity'

if he doesn't care about his identity then why should anyone else make sure it's kept an secret

'The boys were never properly questioned about whether there was a sexual motive in the killing as they became hysterical when the subject was brought up, but police were concerned that sexual abuse may have been committed.'

i never actually knew that!

i feel so sorry for that poor Jame's mother, i hope he stays behind bars where he belongs


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well this is the latest,appaerntly he was sent back for child porn.
> VENABLES IN PRISON OVER CHILD PORN - mirror.co.uk
> 
> I wonder,IF this is true what excuses all the dogooders will come up with now.*


They'l come up with some excuse for this one no doubt someone,something will be to blame, nothing will change we will have scum like this walking our streets until someone, somewhere gets tough and makes these monsters pay they cant keep making excuses for them. Just hope all those people that thought it was right what they did when they let them out are eating their words.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have just been reading another article on the web which came up with a very good reason for people to know Jon Venables true identity..As it stated there could be many new men aged 27 newley admitted to prison who would be wrongly identified by the inmates as jon Venables and subjected to attack.*


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## Michelle.... (Jan 6, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well this is the latest,appaerntly he was sent back for child porn.
> VENABLES IN PRISON OVER CHILD PORN - mirror.co.uk
> 
> I wonder,IF this is true what excuses all the dogooders will come up with now.*


exactly and i wonder how many of the dogooders would of been happy for this scum to be living next door to them??!!


mumof5 said:


> bring back capital punishment, he has proven this is all he is good for.


they should of been hung years ago....there in no excuse for what these evil boys did....hopefully one day little james will rest in peace....


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have just been reading another article on the web which came up with a very good reason for people to know Jon Venables true identity..As it stated there could be many new men aged 27 newley admitted to prison who would be wrongly identified by the inmates as jon Venables and subjected to attack.*


that is a good reason and one i never even thought of!


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

RockRomantic said:


> that is a good reason and one i never even thought of!


same here, tho i bet they will have an excuse that they will use...


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

mumof5 said:


> same here, tho i bet they will have an excuse that they will use...


more thank likely! i think either way his identity is going to come out regardless of the secrecy rubbish


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

theres no excuse for child porn

love that fact because people are able to see other sides to it they are considered dogooders  maybe just slightly more opened minded and not a villager waving their pinch fork baying for the death of people


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RockRomantic said:


> more thank likely! i think either way his identity is going to come out regardless of the secrecy rubbish


His identity was bound to come out at sometime but its the potential damage that could have or has been done during the time it was a secret.

Imagine the lives he could have ruined during these last years that his identity has been a secret, suddenly realising one day that youve been sharing your life with jamie bulgers killer,suddeny realising that jamie bulgers killer is your dad it really doesnt bare thinking about, was this thought of when the idiots decided he should be released into society with the new identity, so here we are back to the old thing he should have never been released.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Daynna said:


> theres no excuse for child porn
> 
> love that fact because people are able to see other sides to it they are considered dogooders  maybe just slightly more opened minded and not a villager waving their pinch fork baying for the death of people


*I ment NO offence to anyone on here,my remark was aimed at the powers that be.*


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I ment NO offence to anyone on here,my remark was aimed at the powers that be.*


Ok sorry i thought that was aimed at the people here who havnt wished for this mans death although No offence taken really, as i said before ive been through something in the last 12months thats changed my opinion on alot of things. He shouldve have been let out to be try to commit another crime.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

The problem is, look at the other side of the coin. So far, Robert Thompson hasn't done anything, maybe that shows he is better than Venables and realises what he has done etc its really hard to know and with there being two of them it complicates it a little more. I think providing the crime is more serious than not paying a fine etc he shouldn't have an identity protection etc, he should just be kept away from society for however long he lives.

What do you all think in regard to Robert, leave him be as he hasn't done anything yet?


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Tinsley said:


> The problem is, look at the other side of the coin. So far, Robert Thompson hasn't done anything, maybe that shows he is better than Venables and realises what he has done etc its really hard to know and with there being two of them it complicates it a little more. I think providing the crime is more serious than not paying a fine etc he shouldn't have an identity protection etc, he should just be kept away from society for however long he lives.
> 
> What do you all think in regard to Robert, leave him be as he hasn't done anything yet?


They both shouldn't have been let out after only serving 8 years.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

Apparently Robert Thompson totally detached himself from the crime he committed and has managed to make a life for himself,working etc. Both of them are evil,maybe Jon Venables cannot cope with what he did and is always going to reooffend time and time again given the opportunity! He needs to stay locked up for the rest of his life,I don't understand people who think he needs protecting! if he was in the States he would have probably been imprisoned until he was old enough for the death sentence.I for one am all for that. He does not deserve to breathe the same air as decent people for the evil that he is!

Why are the crimminals protected when their victims and their families suffer for the rest of their lives.There is no justice anymore.

Izzie


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I'd never considered Thompson actually. Has he been in any trouble at all since he's been let out? Maybe that shows that it -is- possible for people to change? Or if not change then at least be productive members of society? 

Saying that, I wish they'd never been let out, I don't think 8 years was enough time to pay and I certainly (especially with the Venebles reoffending) don't think it's enough time to deffinately rehabilitate someone to the point of knowing that they're never going to reoffend. 

Any kind of profiling/character establishment, to determine what actions they are likely to take in the future, is nothing but pure educated -guesswork- and I don't think guesswork should come into whether murderers are allowed back into the public.
x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I'd never considered Thompson actually. Has he been in any trouble at all since he's been let out? Maybe that shows that it -is- possible for people to change? Or if not change then at least be productive members of society?
> 
> Saying that, I wish they'd never been let out, I don't think 8 years was enough time to pay and I certainly (especially with the Venebles reoffending) don't think it's enough time to deffinately rehabilitate someone to the point of knowing that they're never going to reoffend.
> 
> ...


No I agree with you.

I don't think Thompson has been in the news for anything, I think Denise tried to track him down at one point but I don't think she did in the end. Other than that I don't recall anything, maybe he is the one who was meant to have a finance, I think one was meant to..?


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

tHOMPSON LIVED HERE FOR A WHILE, EVERYTHING WAS GREAT FOR a while he ran a pub with a partner until people started to click who he was.


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

why does anyone have the right to know what venables has recently done ??

"serious allegations" as in, someones made an allagation about him .... this could be the rape of a young lady for all we know ... why the hell should she be dragged into all of this and have this spread across all the papers and become part of the whole james bulger story ??

You dont know what has happened, and NO one has the right to know, unless it will directly bring them harm and they need protecting etc

As for james mom, I can understand that she should have been made aware of venables being in custody and not have found out through the local paper, which would have been devestating and it would have brought horrid memories back in an instant, most likely while she was just nipping out to get milk.....
but even she doesnt have the right to know about what he actually did, because as mentioned, this is about someone else, not just venables, there is another person involved obviously, and why should people know whats happened to them.... what sort of devestation could it have on this person, who was not aware they even knew venables, let alone having their personal details of a crime, splashed across papers .... think about it...

its not about venables and james family, this is a totally seperate incident, involving some one else
..................................................................

for what it is worth, what happened to james, is sickening and beyond belief, I was just a youngster myself when it happened, the same age as thompson and venables. and even at that age, I was shocked and very upset about what I had heard.

Those two boys should have remained locked up intil they were adults, as in 21, and then re assessed as the adults they had grown into.

Then if it was decided they could be released, they shouldnt have had protection, they should have actually done something on their own backs to make it up to society, and proved in their own way that they wanted to show their remorse... not hide behind new identities and carry on with a whole new life.

wont and cant comment on the state of prisons and youth prisons etc , because its in a ridiculous state !!!  
"praised for murder" is all that springs to mind

(some people actually go out their way to get into prison, because they prefer prison to the real hardship of being "free")


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I know what some say that its not the business of everyone else only the people it directly effects but t.b.h they made it everybody elses business when they released these 2 with a whole new identity noone knew who they were standing next to in a supermarket que or even worse someone has had to live and work next to this monster. I think the way he lives the rest of his life has got something to do with everyone in this country because it does/could effect everyone of us.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> No I agree with you.
> 
> I don't think Thompson has been in the news for anything, I think Denise tried to track him down at one point but I don't think she did in the end. Other than that I don't recall anything, maybe he is the one who was meant to have a finance, I think one was meant to..?


I think Denise Bulger needs to find a way forward in her own life. It can't be easy I know but actively trying to seek these boys out is not really going to her state of mind any good in the long run. It is impossible to let go of the hatred she understandably has for these boys but I think she needs to find a way of moving forward to find any inner peace! I wonder how much counselling his parents had after his death.Its sad enough it cost them their child and their marriage.

Izzie


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Thats another reason why i dont think they should have been let out, ime sorry but if what had happened to my child and i had one the same age as jamie at the time he was killed i would never have rested, wanted to hunt him out no way could i have felt at peace or moved forward. The only people that have been thought about in this whole horror story from they day they killed to now has been them evil monsters, where is it right.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Izzie999 said:


> I think Denise Bulger needs to find a way forward in her own life. It can't be easy I know but actively trying to seek these boys out is not really going to her state of mind any good in the long run. It is impossible to let go of the hatred she understandably has for these boys but I think she needs to find a way of moving forward to find any inner peace! I wonder how much counselling his parents had after his death.Its sad enough it cost them their child and their marriage.
> 
> Izzie


I think this was a few years ago, I'm not exactly sure. I think she needs to move forward more than she has too, but there's not alot we can do as outsiders is there...I imagine especially as it was in the news they would have been offered a series of counselling, but then there is the question of how much that helps.

Its a shame, but I've heard many people (on another forum too) say she only goes to the media for money etc, a shame people focus on that really.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Ime afraid that if it had been one of my children killed the only move forward for me would have been to prison.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> I think this was a few years ago, I'm not exactly sure. I think she needs to move forward more than she has too, but there's not alot we can do as outsiders is there...I imagine especially as it was in the news they would have been offered a series of counselling, but then there is the question of how much that helps.
> 
> Its a shame, but I've heard many people (on another forum too) say she only goes to the media for money etc, a shame people focus on that really.


Yes it is,they can't possibly know what she has had to cope with really! I think the Media are dragging this story out for all its worth this week,they should think how upsetting it is for it to be brought up in the press everyday!

I can't imagine how terrible it would be to lose a child in such a way, I saw on the news the other day how Keith Bennets mother was holding a memorial for him 47 years after his death,she has never been able to lay her little boy to rest.Her whole life has been spent wondering where her little boy is buried,she has not been able to move forward in anyway at all.

We should never take our kiddies for granted,they are the most treasured people in our lives!

Izzie


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime afraid that if it had been one of my children killed the only move forward for me would have been to prison.


i have to agree with you here, i would be exactly the same


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## Michelle.... (Jan 6, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime afraid that if it had been one of my children killed the only move forward for me would have been to prison.


100% agree...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

sailor said:


> why does anyone have the right to know what venables has recently done ??
> 
> "serious allegations" as in, someones made an allagation about him .... this could be the rape of a young lady for all we know ... why the hell should she be dragged into all of this and have this spread across all the papers and become part of the whole james bulger story ??
> 
> ...


*Sorry but i disagree here,we do have the right to know as we are the muppets footing the bill to keep people like Jon Venables and the like.I for one would much prefer my money spent on something of use to the country as a whole.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry but i disagree here,we do have the right to know as we are the muppets footing the bill to keep people like Jon Venables and the like.I for one would much prefer my money spent on something of use to the country as a whole.*


Have to agree, they made it our business, right to know whats going on when they released the scum bags to breath the same air as us. Yes its our money our country that they should have no part in.


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## zacknzena (Jan 2, 2010)

James Bulger killer Jon Venables was recalled to prison on suspicion of child porn offences, it has been reported.

The 27-year-old convicted murderer, who was controversially released on licence in 2001, also sparked concerns from probation officers after revealing his identity and abusing drugs, the Sunday Mirror said.

The fresh speculation over what prompted his return to custody just over a week ago comes after Justice Secretary Jack Straw refused to disclose the reasons, saying only that they related to "extremely serious allegations".

James' mother Denise Fergus said that Venables should lose his anonymity if he is charged with a new offence.

Her spokesman, Chris Johnson, said: "If after that, depending on the outcome of the court case, the powers that be decide that he should have some new identity yet again, then we'll deal with that when we come to it.

"But she can't understand why he doesn't appear in a dock under his own name, if that's going to be where he ends up."

Mrs Fergus has demanded to know why Venables was put back in jail, and is meeting Mr Straw this week to discuss the matter.

The killer and his accomplice Robert Thompson were just 10 when they battered two-year-old James to death in Liverpool 17 years ago.
reported on msn news today .


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

just wondering if anyone watchings james's mum on this morning

what i read this morning http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8555186.stm


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Poor woman's just said she's not eating or sleeping again and she'd pulled her kids out of school.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Indie said:


> Poor woman's just said she's not eating or sleeping again and she'd pulled her kids out of school.


my heart really goes out to her


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RockRomantic said:


> my heart really goes out to her


I didnt see it but they are suffering all over again because of him even the children that wernt even born when their brother was killed and they are having to suffer for it now as well.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Having read the responses of people on this thread, you prove why anonymity was required for them. Mob rule is ugly. What they did was wrong, nobody denies that, but can you honestly say you did nothing wrong as a child? I know I did. At 10, we are still children. We have an idea of what is wrong, but at 10 you are still learning. Add in to that talk of their childhood (and lets face it, we don't know the full truth - i bet half the newspapers weren't at the trial, let alone half the people commenting on rubbish excuses) 
I think that they were not fully responsible for what they did. 

I do also feel the parents are a huge part of the blame game in this. I am 31 and couldn't watch childs play now, so why on earth were 10 year olds. If we, as adults, are responsible for any damages our dogs do, then why are we not partly to blame when things like this happen? I also think that we have to take what the papers say with a pinch of salt.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I did wrong when i was ten, i remember sneaking some of my mums make up as i wernt allowed to wear it, i remember telling my mum mu junior school was closing for the day and it wasnt the list is endless if i was to ask her but i do know she wouldnt be telling me that i killed an innocent child. No ime sure they didnt have the easiest of childhood but ime sorry we cant keep paying the price we bring upour own children to do the right thing instill good values into them, and they have to live with these people around them its not fair and its not ours or our childrens fault that these 2 boys and many more wernt as lucky as us and them. I know children that i wouldnt like to live a day in their life but they arnt children that would go out and kill, you think years and years agoo maybe our great great great grandparents time as children times was hard and they didnt go out and and randomly kill people we have to start getting tough whats happened has happened and many lives have been devastated but we cant let them roam free.


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## TIGER COURIERS (Mar 8, 2010)

Who Cares Why?
The Fact That He Is Back Where He Belongs Is A Godsend!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

TIGER COURIERS said:


> Who Cares Why?
> The Fact That He Is Back Where He Belongs Is A Godsend!


Totaly agree we have to now put the why's and wherefore's behind us and think about the rest of us being safe from him.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Can we stop using the phrase 'innocent' child, we shouldn't need to put that word in front of child IMO.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> Can we stop using the phrase 'innocent' child, we shouldn't need to put that word in front of child IMO.


We shouldnt have to no, but unfortunatly we do in this day and age, jamie was an innocent child the other 2 proved they wernt.


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> We shouldnt have to no, but unfortunatly we do in this day and age, jamie was an innocent child the other 2 proved they wernt.


exactly, its very sad but true that not all children are innocent.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> We shouldnt have to no, but unfortunatly we do in this day and age, jamie was an innocent child the other 2 proved they wernt.


I just mean I don't think we should have to put it in front for James, you can put what you like in front of Jon Venables/Robert Thompson, I just don't think it should be needed for most kids, its a sad fact isn't it :nonod:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

A guy in Fleetwood and had the hell beaten out of him people thinking HE was Jon Venables.

If people would stop being so aggressive and let the police deal with it this poor guy wouldn't have had the daylights beaten out of him :nonod:


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> A guy in Fleetwood and had the hell beaten out of him people thinking HE was Jon Venables.
> 
> If people would stop being so aggressive and let the police deal with it this poor guy wouldn't have had the daylights beaten out of him :nonod:


Just goes to show some people have NO brains how could the guy be him when Jon is behind bars?!!? seriously how thick can you get!!

see this is why his name should NEVER be known as people with the same will be killed, beaten lives made hell just for having the same name


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I don't think they should be named cause normal people are going to be so incenses by it that they'll end up doing something stupid that they'll wind up in prison for, which is pointless.
What I would like to see however- -if- he gets released again, and -if- the gov says that he has to renamed/rehomed and it's going to cost, then there should be a fund set up, and any taxpayers that don't mind their taxes paying for this guys new life can donate some money and any people in parliament that don't mind paying for this guys new life can donate money until enough is raised to rehome him.
I genuinely don't think that people that don't want him living in the free world alongside them, should have to pay for his new life, when IMO, he doesn't deserve -another- fresh start.
x


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

He should never be released again.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> He should never be released again.


Totally agree, if he insists on behaving like a pervert he should go on the sex offenders register and personally I think he should be castrated!

Izzie


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

The stupidness has started i have just had a message naming him and saying he raped a 19 year old in Warrington, apparently he has been living in Fleetwood.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

I just can't understand why they were were released. should have been locked up for life and key thrown away ..


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Izzie999 said:


> Totally agree, if he insists on behaving like a pervert he should go on the sex offenders register and personally I think he should be castrated!
> 
> Izzie


You have one brick and ile have the other.


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## SamP (Jan 24, 2010)

What a sad sad world we live in. Life is no longer valued sacred. Parole breach has him back in Prison. We should be like the States where life means life. I have young children so obviously predigious in this case but i believe a hanous crime like this deserves the most extreme the law can give.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

[QUOTE = Indie; 1432242] The stupidness has started i have just had a message naming him and saying he raped a 19 year old in Warrington, apparently he has been living in Fleetwood. [/ QUOTE]

Apparently there is a young man of the same age in Fleetwood who is absolutely terrified because he has been named as Jon Venables but his name is David Calvert. This sort of thing is going to happen over and again until he is named officially other people are going to be at risk, how many other lives will be lost because of this vile human being!

Izzie


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

[QUOTE = haeveymolly; 1432266] You have one brick and ile have the other. [/ QUOTE]

Lol I will take you up on that lol!

Izzie


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Izzie999 said:


> [QUOTE = Indie; 1432242] The stupidness has started i have just had a message naming him and saying he raped a 19 year old in Warrington, apparently he has been living in Fleetwood. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> Apparently there is a young man of the same age in Fleetwood who is absolutely terrified because he has been named as Jon Venables but his name is David Calvert. This sort of thing is going to happen over and again until he is named officially other people are going to be at risk, how many other lives will be lost because of this vile human being!
> 
> Izzie


Yep I agree, its going to now get out of hand and innocent people are going to suffer....they could have avoided all this by just dealing with it in the first place and nipped all this media frenzy in the bud.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Izzie999 said:


> [QUOTE = Indie; 1432242] The stupidness has started i have just had a message naming him and saying he raped a 19 year old in Warrington, apparently he has been living in Fleetwood. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> Apparently there is a young man of the same age in Fleetwood who is absolutely terrified because he has been named as Jon Venables but his name is David Calvert. This sort of thing is going to happen over and again until he is named officially other people are going to be at risk, how many other lives will be lost because of this vile human being!
> 
> Izzie


Yes that's the one.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Indie said:


> The stupidness has started i have just had a message naming him and saying he raped a 19 year old in Warrington, apparently he has been living in Fleetwood.


i just got that same message a few seconds ago

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/mar/09/david-calvert-jon-venables-facebook-jamie-bulger


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Have been told this is an excellent read, worth reading when you have time to digest it as its quite heavy and long but a good. Good for the people who dont think upbringing e.t.c has a impact on child violence

The end of innocence: Inside Britain's child prisons - Crime, UK - The Independent


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

RockRomantic said:


> i just got that same message a few seconds ago
> 
> Man mistaken for Jon Venables on Facebook fears for safety | UK news | guardian.co.uk


God that's awfull poor bloke. The text message i had said pass it on i might add i didn't i knew it was a wind up.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

I have an idea, for all those baying for blood, lets go back to the dark ages as suggested - vigilante attacks because people 'think' they know the facts, rather than waiting for the police etc to do their jobs, because people look shifty, have a job that has 'paed' in it. It's going backwards, but what the hell, we deserve the right to know everything and do what we want to people we think deserve it.

Like it not, these things are in place for a reason. How many times are people baying for blood, in a rape case for example, and then it turns out that they were wrong? Do they care how that person's life has been affected. It is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. The police work to the laws created by the politicians, and everyone has to be treated equal whether you like it or not. We are meant to be moving forward as a society, not backward.

The US has already shown that death penalties and harsh prisons do not work. Rehabilitation is the key, but what's the point in trying to rehabilitate, when most of society has the idea that they have the right to be vigilante's? 

They were children when they did what they did, and were convicted. You just can not compare that to Hindley and Brady, who were adults and not only knew what they were doing, they taped it, buried the bodies etc yet still won't say where one of the bodies is buried.

IF Jon Veneables has commited a new crime, it is just that, a new crime and should be treated as such and the ONLY people who have a right to know what's going on is the new victims family.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I have an idea, for all those baying for blood, lets go back to the dark ages as suggested - vigilante attacks because people 'think' they know the facts, rather than waiting for the police etc to do their jobs, because people look shifty, have a job that has 'paed' in it. It's going backwards, but what the hell, we deserve the right to know everything and do what we want to people we think deserve it.
> 
> Like it not, these things are in place for a reason. How many times are people baying for blood, in a rape case for example, and then it turns out that they were wrong? Do they care how that person's life has been affected. It is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. The police work to the laws created by the politicians, and everyone has to be treated equal whether you like it or not. We are meant to be moving forward as a society, not backward.
> 
> ...


*But had we been living in "the dark ages" as you put it these two would never have been released to commit another crime.And when i personaly mentioned Hindley and Brady i actualy said, "what good did it do keeping them locked up".*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I have an idea, for all those baying for blood, lets go back to the dark ages as suggested - vigilante attacks because people 'think' they know the facts, rather than waiting for the police etc to do their jobs, because people look shifty, have a job that has 'paed' in it. It's going backwards, but what the hell, we deserve the right to know everything and do what we want to people we think deserve it.
> 
> Like it not, these things are in place for a reason. How many times are people baying for blood, in a rape case for example, and then it turns out that they were wrong? Do they care how that person's life has been affected. It is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. The police work to the laws created by the politicians, and everyone has to be treated equal whether you like it or not. We are meant to be moving forward as a society, not backward.
> 
> ...


I haven't really got involved in this debate but this is an excellent post.

I am sure people would change their tune on the death penalty if it was their son, brother, husband, father falsely accused and facing the chair. Just check out America if you want any evidence of how many "mistakes" there has been.

Or are they happy to sacrifice members of their family so a few evil f....ers get what they deserve 

Things are very very rarely black and white, what if something similar to the Bulger case BUT one boy had bullied the other one into doing it (i am not saying that is what happened but it could have). Children are very easy to coerce if you scare the pants off them. Maybe an older child tells a younger child to do it or they will kill them, the younger child is so traumatised they never tell anyone what really happend. You want them sent to death, a victim themselves, a child !!! ??

How about a young girl goes to school and they notice she is withdrawn. Under gentle questioning she sais her friends Dad is sexually abusing her.

Ok so we hang him. Then it later comes out that it was the girls own father doing it but she was too ashamed to say.

Who gets to tell that mans family "we got it wrong".

Or the young lad who "rapes" a girl on a night out and years later she confesses that she consented but for whatever reason she lied about it.

These sorts of things happen a fair bit !!!!!

The death penalty is not a deterrant to these sorts of crimes either as they are compulsive behaviours so it would not prevent them from happening.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I haven't really got involved in this debate but this is an excellent post.
> 
> I am sure people would change their tune on the death penalty if it was their son, brother, husband, father falsely accused and facing the chair. Just check out America if you want any evidence of how many "mistakes" there has been.
> 
> ...


*In cases such as these 2 and Hindley and brady there was no question that they commited the crimes.I agree we cannot say everyone should have the death sentence,but in cases such as these then i'm for it.*


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Albert Pierrepoint, Britains last official hangman claimed that hanging was not a deterrent and justified his statement by a long history of victims he saw to the gallows. These victims included those who were sentenced by alleged overwhelming evidence of their apparent crimes despite the charges being withdrawn post hanging.hmy:

The Pierrepoint Collection - Albert Pierrepoint


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I have an idea, for all those baying for blood, lets go back to the dark ages as suggested - vigilante attacks because people 'think' they know the facts, rather than waiting for the police etc to do their jobs, because people look shifty, have a job that has 'paed' in it. It's going backwards, but what the hell, we deserve the right to know everything and do what we want to people we think deserve it.
> 
> Like it not, these things are in place for a reason. How many times are people baying for blood, in a rape case for example, and then it turns out that they were wrong? Do they care how that person's life has been affected. It is meant to be innocent until proven guilty. The police work to the laws created by the politicians, and everyone has to be treated equal whether you like it or not. We are meant to be moving forward as a society, not backward.
> 
> ...


excellent post have left rep for you. I agree with everything you say there.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *In cases such as these 2 and Hindley and brady there was no question that they commited the crimes.I agree we cannot say everyone should have the death sentence,but in cases such as these then i'm for it.*


How do we know though that the scenario i gave was not the case with the Bulger case. We were not there.

People have been put to death on what appeared to be cast iron evidence only for it to later be found untrue.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Daynna said:


> Have been told this is an excellent read, worth reading when you have time to digest it as its quite heavy and long but a good. Good for the people who dont think upbringing e.t.c has a impact on child violence
> 
> The end of innocence: Inside Britain's child prisons - Crime, UK - The Independent


Just managed to have a read. Thanks for posting it it is very interesting and sums up why i don't believe children are "born evil".

The description of the secure unit made me really sad :crying: It's the familiies whose neglect create these children who need to be made to pay


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