# Breeding from my male Westie



## Hayz911 (Feb 15, 2012)

Hi All

Attached is a picture of my pedigree 4year old male westie (Dougal a.k.a Bug). He gets compliments everywhere we go. It would be such a shame not be breed from him but i'm not really sure where to start. I placed an ad in the local paper but received no responses  any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks

Hayley & Bug


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Okay, 
where do I start!
Do you know he really is a good example for his breed? Have you showed or worked him? Just because you think he's gorgeous (and let's be honest, we are all guilty of thinking our dogs are the most gorgeous dogs ever), does not mean he is good enough to be bred from.
Have you done any health tests? A quick Google reveals all parents should have at least been tested for Pyruvate kinase (PK) deficiency and Globoid cell leukodystrophy and have eyes tested, as well as hips.
Also, why do you want to breed? Further the breed or just because he's cute and fluffy??
AND, no reputable breeder would go trawling the local ads for a stud dog.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

The estimated UK dog population is 10.5 million. If half of those are male and half of those have owners who are as happy with their pets as you and follow the same reasoning to breed, an average litter size of 5 would produce around 13 million puppies
I think you need a better reason


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Basically what they said ^^^^

I think there's a misconception that stud dog work is the *easy* bit, you have a lovely dog, advertise, bitch owners pay you good money to use your lovely dog, and they go away happy with a litter of pups brewing. 

The reality is that stud dog handlers need to have at least as much if not more knowledge than bitch owners, their dog is capable of producing far more progeny/offspring, than any bitch that comes to visit, and they must therefore have good knowledge of their breed, breeding lines, and any health issues. 

They need to be objective, not just about their own dog, but about any potential bitches, and turn those away that aren't suitable, and even advise a more suitable dog where they can. They need to be knowledgeable about the anatomy of dog reproduction, and where necessary, perform a brief internal inspection of a bitch, or assist mating by *handling* the dog into position. It's not all scatter cushions and soft music  

If your dog is unproven, ie he hasn't been shown or assessed, or competed in some way, then you'll struggle to attract quality bitches that are also proven in any way. At the very best, you'll get people who've been turned down elsewhere, or the bitch down the street. 

The other aspect of stud dogs is that whatever happens with the bitch, the blame is most likely going to end up at your door, so if the bitch doesn't take, or there are any problems, including losing pups, or any infection a bitch may pick up, the blame could well land squarely at your door, because it's always the stud dog's fault. 

I really would just enjoy your boy as he is, and if you're interested in your breed, go along to a few dog shows and events, and speak to those who've been involved for numerous years to learn as much as possible from the horses mouth, so to speak.


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## Hayz911 (Feb 15, 2012)

Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you. Little harsh!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I can only echo what the others have said. The last place any reputable breeder looks for a stud is in the local paper. Reputable breeders look in the show ring or working field and if you are in neither, its virtually guaranteed that no one reputable or ethical will use your boy.

As a stud owner it is your responsibility to know more about breeding than the bitch owner, she will look to you for guidance. Breeding is not easy for anyone. Have a look at my site for just a gnats of the information surrounding it all

Thinking Of Breeding Your Dog?


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Hayz911 said:


> Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you. Little harsh!


Nobody was being harsh, just honest!
And, a lot of people deeply care about the ethics involved behind breeding.
Have you done any of the things mentioned above?
If yes, then great, go ahead, but if you haven't, it probably isn't a good idea.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Hayz911 said:


> Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you.* Little harsh*!


Tell all the unwanted dogs in rescue that are desperate for forever homes that.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Which bit was harsh?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hayz911 said:


> Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you. Little harsh!


I cannot see anywhere where people have been harsh and I have the trained eye 

Unfortunately you are probably just disappointed that you didn't receive the answers you wanted. It happens a lot on here.

I do hope you are able to see through your disappointment to know that you have received honest answers from experienced people


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## kaiyaakita (Feb 24, 2010)

You said you didn't know where to start and asked for advise and as far as i can see you have had some great advise, if you really want to go ahead find someone in the breed to help you, maybe your boys breeder and look into getting his health tests done.


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## mich1971 (Jan 20, 2012)

My personal thoughts are that if a male is good enough to stud ie has proved himself in the show ring or working, that you would not need to advertise him as he would be sought after.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Hayz911 said:


> Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you. Little harsh!


Whats harsh is the number of dogs pts everyday because there are not enough homes for them all


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Hayz911 said:


> Wow known of u are backwards about coming forwards are you. Little harsh!


What's harsh about it? you asked for advice and got it - you think it's harsh because it's not what you wanted to hear 

Has your boy had any of the health tests recommended for the breed? is he KC registered? do you know what his faults are? most dogs are 'cute' to the untrained eye of a dog lover - in fact, most dogs are cute to all dog-lovers - whether you would own, show or breed from though is another matter.

Do you know your breed standard well enough to be able to know what your dog would complement and what you would have to turn away because 'it's not a right pairing?' - same with pedigrees - how familiar are you with the pedigree of your own dog, and the breed generally?

Stud work can be hard work - you can find yourself taking on responsibilities far past just allowing you dog to mate a bitch - you can often find yourself getting very intimate with him - particularly in the early stages.

Ostensibly, for a nicely bred health-tested stud, in some breeds, it can 'look' like easy money - but believe me when I say commitment goes way beyond having the bitch over twice for mating

It involves advising the bitch owner on what health-tests the dog needs, what pre-mate testing options are available before mating - knowing when there might be a problem with the bitch preventing the dogs from mating.

Being able to help sell the puppies, give the bitch owner advice throughout the bitch's pregnancy and beyond - it's a big ask that requires you to have a reasonable level of knowledge, and ideally, a more experienced mentor you can tap into if you don't have the answers.

Bitch owners really do have the pick of dogs, and expect a stud service, not just two matings - novice breeders can also expect you to have all the answers


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree with the replys you have had here.

Just to add tho, IF you did let your dog mate a bitch, do you realise he would then have "the taste"for it?

One bitch mated then he would want another, whenever he could smell a bitch in season not only would it drive him mad but the howling can be quite annoying

Just enjoy your dog as a pet, theres enough stud dogs out there already


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Enjoy him for what he is - your special little boy! 

You don't want him ruined, piddling all up the furniture, chasing after females just because he's experienced another interest in life do yo? I was asked to let someone use my boy Flynn for stud and no way was I going to do that to my little boy. He's my baby, always will be and I didn't want anything ruining him no matter how small the chance! Sex once then never again and he'll know what he's missing, cruel IMO. :nonod:

Also remember his babies will be gorgeous and you won't have any say over what happens to them, choose the buyers, vet the homes, know what becomes of them once they leave for new homes. It would break my heart to have "baby Flynns" around that I couldn't protect and your boys pups would be just as sweet as their dad.

Don't do it, just enjoy your boy to the full.


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## philandliz (Aug 13, 2013)

Hi. We have a lovely female westie that is just coming into season. We have been recommended by the vet to give her a litter before we have her done. Its a long story but basically she is a rescue dog that had her litter ripped away from her and maybe giving her a baby to look after will bring her out of her skin. She is roughly 4 years old and a really loving temprement. She has a double coat and a really loving nature and so plasid around other dogs. We are interested in your westie to breed with her. Can you tell me where your based and what you would want in return. Many thanks Phil and Liz. Tel:- 07913694251.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

philandliz said:


> Hi. We have a lovely female westie that is just coming into season. We have been recommended by the vet to give her a litter before we have her done. Its a long story but basically she is a rescue dog that had her litter ripped away from her and maybe giving her a baby to look after will bring her out of her skin. She is roughly 4 years old and a really loving temprement. She has a double coat and a really loving nature and so plasid around other dogs. We are interested in your westie to breed with her. Can you tell me where your based and what you would want in return. Many thanks Phil and Liz. Tel:- 07913694251.


If she's rescue do u have papers? Also is she health tested and if she isn't 'out of get skin' are you sure this is a trait you can put in your pups. I admire you for rescuing but are you going to keep all the pups or do they face ending up in a rescue at some point. Please do t think I'm harsh as the op doesn't like facts but really think about it!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

philandliz said:


> Hi. We have a lovely female westie that is just coming into season. We have been recommended by the vet to give her a litter before we have her done. Its a long story but basically she is a rescue dog that had her litter ripped away from her and maybe giving her a baby to look after will bring her out of her skin. She is roughly 4 years old and a really loving temprement. She has a double coat and a really loving nature and so plasid around other dogs. We are interested in your westie to breed with her. Can you tell me where your based and what you would want in return. Many thanks Phil and Liz. Tel:- ************.


First of all, I'd remove your number from an open forum, you will end up with loads of unwanted telephone calls.

Secondly, please, just please, don't breed from your girl. It's a huge risk putting a bitch through having a litter, she's been through enough from the sounds of it. Your vet has misinformed you I'm afraid, and I personally would report them to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons for giving such poor advice. She will not understand being pregnant or having a litter, that's humanising her entirely, please just give her time to heal and get back to normal, and give her the retirement home she deserves as risk free and loving as possible. Put it like this, how would you feel if you put her into whelp, and you lost her and all the pups? Because it can happen, members on here have lost bitches, I lost two pups from the litter I planned for several years, and also ended up £3k in the red following an emergency c-section and lots of veterinary treatment for the two pups I lost. So please, put any thoughts of a litter out of your mind, find a good vet, report the [email protected] one and put your efforts into just getting your girl as happy and healthy as possible


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Dear dear me. I have no further comments. I sometimes feel I'm wasting my breath. The first bitch I tried breeding was fully health tested so say £500 ish. Stud dog was £600 (was mates rates that!) £300 when I first took her to vets poorly. £3200 when i had her spayed due to pyo at 3 in the morning cos the vets misdiagnosed. end of story. This time again health test, antibiotics when she got water infections, scans. Check up ats vets. human foods cos she won't eat. The heart ache, the tiredness and my litters not here yet. The money in the bank for emergencies. A list of names and numbers from people I've met at shows or out and about who want my puppies. I don't need to advertise them. I have partners for 4 of them! I said I wernt going to comment further. At 4 year old just let her be please. She's had enough.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Can I also just say how do u know she hasn't had a litter every 6 months since been 12 months old. Or the litter was tool away due to her been a bad mum or ill?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

philandliz said:


> Hi. We have a lovely female westie that is just coming into season. We have been recommended by the vet to give her a litter before we have her done. Its a long story but basically she is a rescue dog that had her litter ripped away from her and maybe giving her a baby to look after will bring her out of her skin. She is roughly 4 years old and a really loving temprement. She has a double coat and a really loving nature and so plasid around other dogs. We are interested in your westie to breed with her. Can you tell me where your based and what you would want in return. Many thanks Phil and Liz. Tel:- 07913694251.


Firstly, change vets - that's IF he really told you that - none of the vets I know would suggest something so irresponsible.

Secondly, it is totally irresponsible of you to breed from a rescue dog. You have no idea of her history, medical or otherwise. You say she needs 'bringing her out of her skin'? A litter is not without risks (it's not like human pregnancy) and will put a lot of strain on her both physically and mentally. Why would you do that to a poor bitch that has already had a difficult start in life?

And lastly, even if what you are planning was a good idea, finding a stud dog from a year old post on a forum is not the way to go.

I don't know if this is a troll or serious. I hope it's the former.


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

This is just horrendous I'm afraid. I am aghast someone would consider breeding a rescue dog. It's just immoral. 

Breeding should be done by those who know the lines of their dogs, the positives AND negative points of their dogs, health tested etc etc. please don't just breed for the sake of it. With dogs which have pedigree papers- how would you know who her relatives are without them for a start!


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Surely this is a windup


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

new westie owner said:


> Surely this is a windup


Possibly, but to be honest, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, so best to give honest information/advice.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

You think these guys have been harsh?... That's nothing!

I'm about to be harsh...

Under NO circumstances should you breed from your dog! Yes, he's nice... Show me a dog who isn't.

I take it from the way you have come across that you have NO idea about anything involved with breeding.

He needs a lot of health tests, costing thousands of pounds! You say pedigree? You didn't say Kennel Club Registered, another issue... How do you know he is breed standard? Has an experienced Westie person ever told you that your dog is nice? Has a show judge ever even seen your dog? Has he been titled in ANY way, for anything?

How much experience do you have of breeding dogs? How much experience do you even have of the breed?

Sub-standard breeding is a no-go for any person with half a brain! Breeding dogs should better the breed! Breed for the breed, not because your dog always gets complimented! Hey mine does too... The difference? My dog is KC Reg from fully health tested parentage and who has over 30 champions in his bloodlines, both international and national champions... Will he ever sire a litter? Even when he is fully health tested at the correct age? NO! Absolutely not! You know why? Because there is no need... And because I am not nearly experienced enough to do the breed justice...

Take the ad out of the local paper, do not breed your dog... Enjoy him.

Leave breeding to professionals... Please.

Harsh is a walk around your local rescue centre. Harsh is looking in to the eyes of all the homeless dogs who were bred needlessly. Harsh is the number of dogs each day put to sleep simply because there are not enough people willing to give them homes. Harsh is the look a dog gives you when it has completely given up on the world. Harsh is the number of PUPPIES in this situation, at such a young age _they_ struggle to find homes. Harsh is the fact that the people who bred said puppies are walking around, getting on with their lives and not acting responsibly...

You need to re-evaluate your definition of harsh...


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