# Bloat some information



## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

so that people know the signs.

Introduction Bloat, Torsion. Gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV). Call it what you want, this is a serious, life-threatening condition of large breed dogs. While the diagnosis is simple, the pathological changes in the dog's body make treatment complicated, expensive, and not always successful.

A typical scenario starts with a large, deep-chested dog, usually fed once daily. Typical breeds affected are Akita, Great Dane, German Shepherd, St. Bernard, Irish Wolfhound, and Irish Setter. Sighthounds, Doberman Pinschers, Weimaraners, Bloodhounds,Alaskan Malamutes other similar breeds, and large, deep-chested mixed breeds are also affected.

Factor in the habit of bolting food, gulping air, or drinking large amounts of water immediately after eating to this feeding schedule and body type. Then add vigorous exercise after a full meal, and you have the recipe for bloat occuring

Of course, the fact that not all bloats happen in just the same way and the thought that some bloodlines are more at risk than others further complicates the issue so research into lines is important.

Simple gastric distention can occur in any breed or age of dog and is common in young puppies who overeat. This is sometimes referred to as pre-bloat by laymen. Belching of gas or vomiting food usually relieves the problem.

If this condition occurs more than once in a predisposed breed, the veterinarian might discuss methods to prevent bloat, such as feeding smaller meals or giving Reglan (metoclopramide) to encourage stomach emptying. Some veterinarians recommend, and some owners request, prophylactic surgery to anchor the stomach in place before the torsion occurs in dogs who have experienced one or more bouts of distention or in dogs whose close relatives have had GDV.

The physiology of bloat
Torsion or volvulus are terms to describe the twisting of the stomach after gastric distention occurs. The different terms are used to define the twisting whether it occurs on the longitudinal axis (torsion) or the mesenteric axis (volvulus). Most people use the terms interchangeably, and the type of twist has no bearing on the prognosis or treatment. When torsion occurs, the esophagus is closed off, limiting the dog's ability to relieve distention by vomiting or belching. Often the spleen becomes entrapped as well, and its blood supply is cut off.

Now a complex chain of physiologic events begins. The blood return to the heart decreases, cardiac output decreases, and cardiac arrythmias may follow. Toxins build up in the dying stomach lining. The liver, pancreas, and upper small bowel may also be compromised. Shock from low blood pressure and endotoxins rapidly develops. Sometimes the stomach ruptures, leading to peritonitis.

Abdominal distention, salivating, and retching are the hallmark signs of GDV. Other signs may include restlessness, depression, lethargy, anorexia, weakness, or a rapid heart rate.

Treatment
GDV is a true emergency. If you know or even suspect your dog has bloat, immediately call your veterinarian or emergency service. Do not attempt home treatment.

Take the time to call ahead.; while you are transporting the dog, the hospital staff can prepare for your arrival. Do not insist on accompanying your dog to the treatment area. Well-meaning owners are an impediment to efficient care. Someone will be out to answer your questions as soon as possible, but for now, have faith in you veterinarian and wait.

Initial diagnosis may include x-rays, an ECG, and blood tests, but treatment will probably be started before the test results are in.

The first step is to treat shock with IV fluids and steroids. Antibiotics and anti-arrythmics may also be started now. Then the veterinarian will attempt to decompress the stomach by passing a stomach tube. If this is successful, a gastric levage may be instituted to wash out accumulated food, gastric juices, or other stomach contents. In some cases, decompression is accomplished by placing large-bore needles or a trochar through the skin and muscle and directly into the stomach.

In some cases, this medical therapy is sufficient. However, in many cases, surgery is required to save the dog. Once the dog's condition is stabilized, surgery to correct the stomach twist, remove any unhealthy tissue, and anchor the stomach in place is performed. The gastroplexy, or anchoring surgery, is an important procedure to prevent recurrence, and many variations exist. Your veterinarian will do the procedure he feels comfortable with and which has the best success rate

Recovery is prolonged, sometimes requiring hospital stays of a week or more. Post-operative care depends on the severity of the disease and the treatment methods employed and may include a special diet, drugs to promote gastric emptying, and routine wound management. Costs may run £100's or £1.000'S in more complicated cases.

Prevention
Clearly, prevention of GDV is preferable to treatment. In susceptible breeds, feed two or three meals daily and discourage rapid eating. Do not allow exercise for two hours after a meal. As previously mentioned, some owners feel that certain bloodlines are at greater risk and choose to have gastroplexy performed as a prophylactic measure.

While the genetics of GDV are not completely worked out, most breeders and veterinarians feel there is some degree of heritability. Therefore, while prophylactic gastroplexy will probably help an individual dog, it makes sense not to breed dogs who are affected or who are close relatives of those suffering from GDV

MO

[youtube_browser]U1WrT2719yo[/youtube_browser]


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Is it okay to feed a dog after a walk?
Normally I leave it an hour before and after a walk before I feed my boys.

But I've just gone on a short 20 min walk, 10 mins walking, and another 10 exploring a new area, and since it's past 12 Milo wants his lunch but I'm unsure whether to give it to him or not?


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

would you recommend feeding out of raised bowls? i have heard conflicting advise about this.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Ducky said:


> would you recommend feeding out of raised bowls? i have heard conflicting advise about this.


The original research suggested raised bowls were beneficial however more recent research has shown raised bowls significantly *increase* the risk.

Raid The Wind Kennels


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

this is what I posted on another thread.
I just read this about the food too, it does make you think, this is someone that studied bloat after losing one of her dogs to it.

The following bloat increasing factors are controllable. Check to make sure you are not inadvertently increasing the chances that your best friend will suffer this horrible affliction:

"Gulpers" - does your dog seemingly inhale her food? Take measures to slow her down: place several fist sized rocks in her bowl (you may need to get a bigger bowl), eating around them will slow her down. Distribute the food among the cups in a muffin tin. Use a buster cube or other food releasing toy and really make her work for her meal. Try a brake-fast or dogpause bowl. 
Grab your dog food bag and check the ingredients, if one of the first four ingredients is citric acid, it's increasing your dog's risk of bloating. If it includes fat among the first four ingredients, it's increasing your dog's risk of bloating by 170% 
Moistening of food caused no increase in bloat risk, unless the food contained citric acid. Moistening these foods increased the risk of bloat by an amazing 320%! 
If one of the first 4 ingredients is rendered meat meal with bone - congratulations - you've just reduced your dog's risk of bloating by 53% 
*Feeding your dog from a raised bowl increases the risk of bloat by 110%. Feed your dog from a bowl on the ground, unless he suffers from mega-esophagus or some other disease where raised bowl feeding is a must.* 
"Gastric Indiscretion" - the medical term used by veterinarian's after your dog has found a food source and "pigged out". Every owner deals with the issue of their dog stealing a loaf of bread (or some other delicious-ness) and inhaling the entire thing at some point. Do your best to keep anything that your dog will find irresistible out of her reach. 
These days, when there is a wealth of high quality kibbles on the market, there is no need to feed one which will actually increase the chances that your dog will suffer an extremely painful and possibly fatal medical emergency. So check your food, and, if necessary, change brands. Don't feed your dog from a raised dish unless medically necessary.

MO


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

cool. thanks for the info.


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## oldDoubletrouble (Sep 21, 2009)

Always like to highlight the dreaded gastric torsion/bloat myself having had a dog suffer twice fro this.

I know there are at least three threads that I have done in the past, one which I did write myself.

Will try and find them and link them to this.
DT


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

I know that above Mo has written that using a rasied feeding bowl makes your dog more prone to Bloat however I would recommend knowing the breed of dog you have as to which bowl to use. I have Lurchers one of which is a Saluki X Greyhound who is 4 years old. I use a raised feeding bowl for him as it is recommended for more Greyhound as it is important to consider musculoskeletal problems, which are common for retired racers or workers who often have old injuries. Eating from raised dishes can reduce strain on the neck and back and lessen discomfort on arthritic joints, as well.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I think the area that was done in bold actually say this, 

copied
Feeding your dog from a raised bowl increases the risk of bloat by 110%. Feed your dog from a bowl on the ground, unless he suffers from mega-esophagus or some other disease where raised bowl feeding is a must. 

I actually agree if a dog has an injury of some sort that prevents it using a bowl on the floor then you have no real option.

Mo


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## WoodyGSP (Oct 11, 2009)

Thankyou for this post! I was going to buy a raised feeder as that is what I had read was best for preventing bloat. I'm not going to buy one now.


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## oldDoubletrouble (Sep 21, 2009)

Moboyds thread is great! I am going to find my old ones and a mod is going to link them together! there is one issue that is a little misleading and going through my paperwork as we speak! But the raised bowls are definately a big no no!
DT


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

When I got Neva I asked my vet about bloat. He looked and me and said Jill whatever you did with Tre was right as her chest was deeper than my collies. Tre was a wonderful mutt that I adored for 10 yrs parentage unknown mom had Aussie in her Dad Shepherd/Dobie we think. This was a very good read thanks for putting it back in the limelight. I have read some other posts on this and think its very useful info...Jill


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2009)

I lost my beloved St Bernard to bloat 6 years ago, I fed little and often didn't excercise after meals but she did have raised food and water bowls as all the advice on the internet pointed to this being best


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> I lost my beloved St Bernard to bloat 6 years ago, I fed little and often didn't excercise after meals but she did have raised food and water bowls as all the advice on the internet pointed to this being best


sorry to hear this and yes at one time they advised raised bowls, but since they have done surveys into the subject the advice has changed. we have all at one time fallen for it, I too had raised bowls at one time.

mo


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi all, in a recent post a few comments came about on bloat ...

please refer to the original thread/post by RachyBobs for details: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/78230-you-know-you-have-giant-dog-when.html

i have spent a few hours in trying to find out more, as i was aware of some details but ignored the whole picture:

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2000 Nov 15;217(10):1492-9.
Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs.

Glickman LT, Glickman NW, Schellenberg DB, Raghavan M, Lee T.

Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1243, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To identify non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV) in large breed and giant breed dogs. DESIGN: Prospective cohort study. ANIMALS: 1,637 dogs > or = 6 months old of the following breeds: Akita, Bloodhound, Collie, Great Dane, Irish Setter, Irish Wolfhound, Newfoundland, Rottweiler, Saint Bernard, Standard Poodle, and Weimaraner. PROCEDURE: Owners of dogs that did not have a history of GDV were recruited at dog shows, and the dog's length and height and the depth and width of its thorax and abdomen were measured. Information concerning the dog's medical history, genetic background, personality, and diet was obtained from the owners, and owners were contacted by mail and telephone at approximately 1-year intervals to determine whether dogs had developed GDV or died. Incidence of GDV, calculated on the basis of dog-years at risk for dogs that were or were not exposed to potential risk factors, was used to calculate the relative risk of GDV. RESULTS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Cumulative incidence of GDV during the study was 6% for large breed and giant breed dogs. *Factors significantly associated with an increased risk of GDV were increasing age, having a first-degree relative with a history of GDV, having a faster speed of eating, and having a raised feeding bowl. Approximately 20 and 52% of cases of GDV among the large breed and giant breed dogs, respectively, were attributed to having a raised feed bowl.*

PMID: 11128539 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

well this is not the only study available but one of the first...and these findings have been verified by other similar studies with multiple variations in the sampling etc etc,

hope this can be of help in your day-to-day management of pet husbandry>

best regards
D

P.S. Maybe this should be placed in health and nutrition...
but i cannot do it...


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks...I think this should be made a sticky


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

It does *not* have to be large or giant dogs that get bloat, any breed that is deep chested, eg. Whippet of one, can suffer with bloat.

With Amber I never played with her one hour before and one hour after a meal, the stomach can twist which does cause bloat. We also feed her three meals a day so it was easier to digest.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Thank you for the sticky - it's a valuable item.

There is also some information on this thread:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/1252720-post7.html

To recap:
** Bloat is now the second biggest killer of dogs; Cancer is the first.

* It can affect any deep-chested breed, not just large breeds.

* Cases have risen enormously in the last 30 years.

* It is believed to be familial - meaning that any relatives of dogs that have had bloat should not be used for breeding.

* It most often comes on in the late evening/early morning.

* Every dog owner should educate his/herself on the symptoms.*

Beating Bloat - a useful resource for more information"
http://www.dogstuff.info/beating_bloat_pflaumer.html


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

*If you believe your dog is experiencing bloat, please get your dog to a veterinarian immediately! Bloat can kill in less than an hour, so time is of the essence. Call your vet to alert them you're on your way with a suspected bloat case. Better to be safe than sorry!

The most noticeable symptoms are:

* Swollen abdomen
* Extreme restlessness often with pacing
* Excessive salivation and drooling
* Attempts to vomit or defecate without results
* Whining and cries of pain
* Pale or off-colour gums
(Dark red in early stages, white or blue in later stages)
* Foamy mucous around the lips, or vomiting foamy mucous
* May refuse to lie down or even sit down
* Heavy or rapid panting

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* Do not feed your dog one meal a day, spilt this into two. One in the morning one in the evening
* Do not exercise or excite your dog straight after feeding time. Allow at least two hours for him to digest his food.
* Do not put your dog in a stressful situation straight after feeding time. Again as above allow plenty of time for him to digest his food.
* Excessive drinking should also be avoided, especially right before and straight after feeding time.
* Avoid feeding food that are known to cause flatulence (gas), e.g. soy, beans, peas, onions, beet pulp, etc.
* Never allow you dog to eat bread dough or anything that contains un-cooked yeast.
* When switching dog food, do so gradually (allow several weeks).

Google Image Result for http://cdn-www.expertvillage.com/showImage.aspx?site=21&fn=dog-first-aid-bloat.jpg

*​*

*


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## BleakHounds (Jan 27, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> It does *not* have to be large or giant dogs that get bloat, any breed that is deep chested, eg. Whippet of one, can suffer with bloat.
> 
> With Amber I never played with her one hour before and one hour after a meal, the stomach can twist which does cause bloat. We also feed her three meals a day so it was easier to digest.


We have whippets and don't exercise for at least and hour before feeding and at least an hour after. Mine are on two meals a day. I was under the impression that a raised feeding bowl was supposed to help prevent this?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Some research suggest that raised bowls may increase the chance of bloat.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

BleakHounds said:


> We have whippets and don't exercise for at least and hour before feeding and at least an hour after. Mine are on two meals a day. I was under the impression that a raised feeding bowl was supposed to help prevent this?


I've heard that as well, but it would not have made any differance with Amber she always lay down to eat.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I lost a Bullmastiff to bloat. He was raw fed so not fed in a bowl and did not bolt his food. :crying:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Some research suggest that raised bowls may increase the chance of bloat.


Gastric Dilatation - Stomach Bloat and Torsion In Dogs
Bloat in Dogs
Bloat - The Mother of All Emergencies - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!


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## Inkdog (Dec 5, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Gastric Dilatation - Stomach Bloat and Torsion In Dogs
> Bloat in Dogs
> Bloat - The Mother of All Emergencies - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!


Thanks for these links, hawksport.

It was interesting to read that we should control a dog's access to water during meal times, when most food manufacturers recommend a plentiful supply of fresh water. I've got to say that I'd feel unhappy about removing Bingley's water bowl during meal times. Do any of you do this?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I have only recently got my first dog from a resue centre so am learning quite alot by reading the posts on here. I'm concerned that I feed my dog in the morning about 30mins before he goes for his walk (30 mins slow paced first thing). As the cats are fed first he also anticipates his meal so is fed afterwards then walked after which I go to work. He is then walked again at lunchtime (15 - 20mins) then again in the evening (45mins - 1hr) after which he has his second meal approx 30 mins after getting home.
Should I give him his first meal after his first walk? Maybe take him out whilst the cats are being fed so he doesn't get jealous? Also he does tend to wolf his food down (he is currently on Purina OM dry food as he needs to lose a further 5kg) so should I split the meal to slow him down? he looks forward to his food so much (don't we all when we're on diets!) that I don't want to upset him but also don't want to get things badlywrong. Any advice is much appreciated!!


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## leosrfab (Feb 6, 2010)

I lost my beautiful Leonberger to this nasty condition last april. I never restrict water just make sure that they dont gulp down loads as Bailey used to do.

My dog used to do very loud and large Burps after a meal.. this may also be a sign that they are prone to bloat.


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## Inkdog (Dec 5, 2009)

I was sorry to read about Bailey, leosfarb; he looks very handsome in that photo.

Thanks for the advice. I haven't seen any indications that my own dog might be in danger of bloat, but reading some of the reports did make me stop and think. For the time being I've decided not to limit his access to water during meal times; he's clearly very thirsty after he's eaten and I'd feel uneasy about removing is water bowl (especially when there have been no indications that anything is amiss). I tend to think of him as a delicate drinker, rather than a gulper; and although he does sometimes give a loud burp, it's quite a rare event and I dont feel too concerned about it. But for sure I'll now be on the lookout for any changes in this area.

Thanks again for your suggestions.


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

We feed our two labs from raised bowls I didnt realise it could cause bloat, would they be better to eat from the floor??


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Jen26 said:


> We feed our two labs from raised bowls I didnt realise it could cause bloat, would they be better to eat from the floor??


New studies have shown that this would be safer


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

rona said:


> New studies have shown that this would be safer


Thanks, I will feed them from the floor from now on


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Bloat (Gastric Dilatation and Volvulus) in Dogs
QUOTE
Some studies suggest that dogs who are susceptible to bloat should not be fed with elevated feeders; other studies have not found this to be true. It is recommended, however, that dogs at increased risk be fed at floor level.


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

rona said:


> Bloat (Gastric Dilatation and Volvulus) in Dogs
> QUOTE
> Some studies suggest that dogs who are susceptible to bloat should not be fed with elevated feeders; other studies have not found this to be true. It is recommended, however, that dogs at increased risk be fed at floor level.


Thankyou , will give it a read


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## Rooster2 (Feb 10, 2010)

moboyd said:


> this is what I posted on another thread.
> I just read this about the food too, it does make you think, this is someone that studied bloat after losing one of her dogs to it.
> 
> The following bloat increasing factors are controllable. Check to make sure you are not inadvertently increasing the chances that your best friend will suffer this horrible affliction:
> ...


Hi There, Just been reading all of this very useful information and wanted to add that I have been using a "DOGPAUSE" feeding bowl for a year now with my Malamute and it has had an amazing effect on how he eats! It now takes him alot longer to finish a meal so I am well pleased and at less than £14 it was a small price to pay! The place I bought it from also sold me some food more recently which is made from real meat instead of meat meal which Rocco loves to eat so your information has made me really happy knowing im doing all I can


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

My greyhound William died from bloat on 24th march 2010. He was not a greedy dog and never bolted his food. He didn't gulp water and he hadn't been running around after being fed. 

He also showed no signs of having bloat. He had barked in the night but that was normal for him. He had been to the toilet normally before bed time and had gone into his crate with Button for the night.

He sat with me at 7am he was wandering around when I fed th other by 7.30 he was unconscious. It was not until then his stomach started to bloat and even then not exssecively. If he'd have been a bitch you would have thought he was pregnant.

What started it we do not know and will never know but I was talking to someone and they had had greyhounds in the past and asked if he slept on his back with his legs in the air. The answer was yes and they said some research had shown a lot of dogs that have inexplained cases of bloat also did this and it was thought that them rolling over to get up could twist the stomach and cause the bloat.

Please everyone be aware that although bloat can be very painful your dog may not show any signs of it as William didn't. It can be very sudden 45 minutes before being PTS William was fine.


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## D Poulton (Feb 23, 2010)

I've seen and read the messages regarding bloat. I have two giant breed dogs and one in particular will insist in bolting his food. He doesn't chew just swallows i.e a complete pear can disappear in 30 secs.
I am aware of bloat as i have belongs to a giant breed club for a long time, has anyone got any other ideas? Also I have been reading mixed messages about elevated food bowls. I am really confused now.


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

D Poulton said:


> I've seen and read the messages regarding bloat. I have two giant breed dogs and one in particular will insist in bolting his food. He doesn't chew just swallows i.e a complete pear can disappear in 30 secs.
> I am aware of bloat as i have belongs to a giant breed club for a long time, has anyone got any other ideas? Also I have been reading mixed messages about elevated food bowls. I am really confused now.


hi, i know is very confusing, and many "reputable websites and experienced people" give this or that suggestion to reduce/manage the problem. however, it is my opinion that, in order to be up to speed, it's best to follow the latest scientific evidence rather than other people's personal experience no matter how far and wide this experience spans or websites reporting "information" based on hearsay or not scientifically proven....science is not always right but it's our best bet, that's why it progresses at such speed....

it's a bit like chasing something you cannot quite reach...but after all we want to do what's best for our furry friends...and that takes a bit of digging and researching.

fortunately the problem of gulping down food with one of my big dogs have gone away....but at the time....i use to just chock a big brick in her large bowl...so she had to eat around it slowing her down considerably

bets
D


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I recently lost my greyhound to bloat. The emergency vet diagnosed a twisted stomache but the greyhound people are saying it was not bloat. Why?

1 his stomach was not bloated

2 he never bolted his food I sometimes had to wait 20-30 minutes for him to finish

3 he showed no signs of being in pain

4 he had not been exercised after food

5 although bloat is common in greyhounds there was no history of bloat in his immediate family his mother had lived to 13 and never been ill his sire was 14 and had never been ill both past away last year due to old age.

William showed no typical signs of bloat He had barked in the night for a wee but this was normal for him he always had to go for a wee in the early hours. He was wandering round when I fed the others at 7am and then went to sleep at my feet he was snoring by 7.30 am when I went to move him he was unconscious. Despite being rushed to the vets his heart had stopped it was restarted but his chances of surviving an operation were slim He could not be hospitalised anyway as he hated the vets. Even my vet would only keep him in for a couple of hours so the stress of being kept at the vets would have killed him on its own.

We made the only decision that we thought was fair to him and that was to let him sleep forever.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Long story made short, this last week a friend of mine that is a vet nurse in the states told me that one of her malamutes, bloated, she immediately gave him some simethicone this is an antacid that helps making the iar bubbles in the stomach go smaller and easier to pass, she then put the dog into her car to rush to the vets where she works, as she was driving she heard her dogs belching and passing wind, apparently the smell was shocking, but when she put her hand around to feel the dog his stomach had drastically reduced in size, when she got to the vets they started dealing with the problem, she informed the vet of what she had given the dog, the vet and herself felt that giving the dog this medication immediately helped reduce the chance or torsion, as this medications was in the states I did some searching for products over here that may have the same ingrediatents, so that I could buy it and have it on hand just in case. this is some of the information I took from a Gt Dane website.

*This was taken from a uk great Dane site, so the products mentioned will be the ones you can get in the uk. obviously the measurments given is for Gt Dane.

First Aid - Action you can take
You can give your dog 8 fluid ounces of antacid. Brand names to look out for are Actonorm. Altacite Plus, Asilone, Infacol, Simeco and Polycol.

Ask the chemist for the 'activated' type of antacid. Always keep an antacid in the house and regularly check its expiry date.

Once administered, do not wait to see if the antacid improves the condition of the dog. Take your dog to the vet immediately - time is of the essence.

Not all Veterinary Surgeons agree with the administering of an antacid. You should check this point with your Vet. If you have given your dog an antacid, do remember to tell your Vet the time, brand and quantity of antacid given.*

Its in a liquid form, but if your dog is stressing about getting this down him/her, *stop immediately *and get to the vets(you need to go to vets anyway ASAP if you suspect bloat) other wise the stress can cause complcations or the dog could inhale the medication.

mo


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks for the info, worrying stuff, as long as we follow guidelines hopefully the cases will significantly reduce x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

sorry to her that you lost William !.

Having a discussion about bloat, can anyone answer me . Is bloat thought to be heridatory??


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## vixtory (Mar 27, 2010)

i`ve found all this very interesting.. we have a large breed dog ( dogue de Bordeaux ) and we have her dishes raised to avoid bloat,twisted stomache etc... think i`ll do away with her dish stand now! She always pinches her food from my other smaller dogs dish anyway and they are on the floor, she seems more comfy eating from them dishes!

Thanks for the very informative interesting info guys! x


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## LolaMishka (Nov 30, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your loss of William the greyhound 

I don't know about bloat being hereditary but the makers of the raw diet I'm switching Lola to mentioned that her vet links stress to bloat - either stressful situations for the dog or periods of stress for the family that the dog picks up on. Has anyone ever heard of this?


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

dexter said:


> sorry to her that you lost William !.
> 
> Having a discussion about bloat, can anyone answer me . Is bloat thought to be heridatory??


In racing greyhound circles one of the things that they say is if there is a history of bloat in the dogs pedigree there is more chance of it getting bloat. That was one of the things that I was asked by the racing people.

In William's case his breeder owned both his sire and dam and both live to an old age 13 and 14 both passing due to age related problems last year. As far as she knows there is no history of bloat in his pedigree.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I dont know if its hereditary, but I have heard the same as Freyja, some lines are more "prone" to it?

mo


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

I have had Ridgebacks for 30+ years (multiple dog household, usally 5-6 at a time) and I always feed from raised food bowls as I find they tend to eat more slowly and take in less air than from a bowl on the ground. The only one I feed on the floor is my 14 yr old who has become extremely food orientated this last year or so. I now put her meal in a washing up bowl on the kitchen floor, the meal is spread over the base of the bowl and the action of her chasing the food around the bowl means that the bowl then scoots across the kitchen floor. It takes her far longer to eat this way than from a heavy static food bowl be it raised or not. Feeding with large balls in her dish did not help at all, she just tossed them out. During all my years of dog ownership I have, thank goodness, only lost one to bloat and she had not been exercised, had lots to drink or anything else that was likely to set off bloat, it was just "one of those things". I should hate to lose another dog to this condition, it is horrible.


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

This is replying to LolaMishka  when I lost my lovely Tammy to bloat, she was at home with my husband and all my other dogs. She was not stressed in any way. At the time I fed all my dogs on a kibble diet but not these days, all my dogs get fed a premium raw meat, bone, fruit and vegetable meal (Natural Instinct), it is a very moist food so my dogs do not drink copious amounts of water. Being a raw diet it does not swell in their stomachs and they are all in A1 condition I can thoroughly recommend this diet to all dog owners.


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## LolaMishka (Nov 30, 2009)

Imbali Sue said:


> This is replying to LolaMishka  when I lost my lovely Tammy to bloat, she was at home with my husband and all my other dogs. She was not stressed in any way. At the time I fed all my dogs on a kibble diet but not these days, all my dogs get fed a premium raw meat, bone, fruit and vegetable meal (Natural Instinct), it is a very moist food so my dogs do not drink copious amounts of water. Being a raw diet it does not swell in their stomachs and they are all in A1 condition I can thoroughly recommend this diet to all dog owners.


Hi Sue, what a shame about Tammy, it just sounds such a horrible condition so I'm sorry you had to lose a beloved pet this way 

I haven't heard anyone else say it's stress related apart from this one particular vet but I just wondered. It's really interesting that you say about the kibble. I've moved Mishka to grain free Taste of the Wild kibble last week (because she gets poorly on raw bones due to a very sensitive stomach) and Lola is going onto raw food this week. My order of Darlings Real Dog Food is arriving today but I've heard Natural Instinct is good too so might be trying Lola on that too depending on how the Darlings goes. I think they're about the same price for the lamb variety (which I wanted to try because Lola suffers from skin problems) but I am considering the mixed (lamb and chicken) one that Natural Instinct do too. 

I know all these grain free foods (raw or kibble) are expensive but they'll be well worth it if they keep Mishka's tummy stable and stop me having to put Lola on steroids for her skin, plus hopefully they are less prone to horrid things like bloat if there are no grains in the food.


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## TheCollarGuy (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks for the Information...


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

I think the benefits of feeding the quality raw food shows in the health and vitality of my dogs. When you consider the money you are putting into your vet's pocket against the cost of the food you may well find that in the long term feeding Natural Instinct actually saves you money. My oldest girl was 14 earlier this month and last week she accompanied me on a 2 hr walk! I believe in "you get out what you put in" and my dogs prove it. I hope Mishka and Lola enjoy their new diet.


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## gigona (Apr 23, 2010)

My dog gulps down her food its gone in the matter of seconds, shes in quarantine and I dont think they feed her alot, because before she would eat calmy and slowly,

slightly worried now.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

You know in one of Mo's original posts where it says if FAT is one of the first 4 ingredients it increases the risk, is salmon oil counted as fat at all?

I know if some dog treats they say 'oil content' instead of fat content 

Anyone know..?


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## JeannieB (Apr 26, 2010)

Fat must be present in a dog food and salmon oil is predominently unsaturated fat - which is preferable as it is metabolised more effectively by the body.

Greedy gulper bowls are very effective at reducing the speed that dogs eat and reduce the volume of air that is potentially gulped in with the food.

Feed only after exercise, preferally 2 meals a day - or more if your dog has experienced GDV in the past and from a bowl on the floor - not raised.


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## dobermum (Apr 27, 2010)

Great info! I have just posted on another thread about 'raised food stances' and must in all honestly say, that I was advised to feed my Dobes from a raised food stance from my amazing vet, an elderly lady, in the business for an entire lifetime almost, and in 25 years as owning Dobes, I have NEVER had any worries or problems from feeding them outta raised food stances. I woulda thought it more worrying to keep their bowls on the grounds, i.e.bending down making it more susceptible to gulp in air, water, food?
I did almost lose one to gastric torsion - but this was caused whilst in kennels and due to a RAWHIDE TREAT (which I have NEVER allowed them to have).

I don't always believe in what the experts say tho I do appreciate that bloat/gastric torsion is a SERIOUS SERIOUS illness and should not be dissed, but as a 'mother' to my dogs, I would stick to what I know best. Thankfully, the 'girls' are not 'wolfers down'. lol.

Great Topic/post tho, thanks!:thumbup:

D


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## Olly's Mum (Feb 10, 2010)

Interesting Reading!! 

My olly pretty much always burbs after his meal, should i be worried?


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

I wouldn't be worried at all as the burping would be releasing any air. Better out than in.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I've been terrified of Nero getting bloat ever since I found out about it, he's a greyhound and Ambers a grey x lurcher. He has a raised bowl as his front legs buckle if he has to go to floor level- but I'll lower the bowl a bit now so he can reach easily, but it's not so high. I 'burp' both my hounds after meals as Amber still bolts food, and though Nero has slowed down, he's still very gassy after eating. Thanks to the article I'll change how I feed Amber so she simply can't bolt it down. I think she must have had to scavenge for food in her former life, I've never seen a dog so desperate for food, AND she's slowed down. Anyway- thanks for the post, it's scary but very much needed info.


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

As I said in an earlier post, I have changed all my dogs over to a raw meat, bone, fruit and veg diet. The one is use is made by Natural Instinct their website is Natural Instinct - High Quality Natural Dog Food the food comes frozen and is complete so you do not need to add anything whatsoever to it. Because it is more natural I find my dogs don't eat as much as they did on a kibble diet and another advantage is that the meat does NOT swell at all therefore I feel the potential incidence of bloat is minimized. To begin with they bolted the food down but, once again, I didn't worry because it didn't swell up afterwards but now that they have been on it for several months I find that I am reducing the actual daily amount as their systems have now fully switched to this diet and it is very satisfying for them. Two of my dogs now take their time eating their meals and actually lick it up rather than bolt it back.


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## SlingDash (Jul 30, 2010)

Has any research been done on bloat/GDV etc in dogs fed on a raw meat and bone diet?

If food bolting is a factor, then it would seem likely that this diet would greatly decrease the risks.


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't know if there has been published results of any tests but from my own experiences I am totally convinced that my dogs' present diet is the very best for them. I have a litter of 7 puppies at the moment (7.5 wks), they have not had a single piece of kibble or dog biscuit, I introduced Natural Instinct Weaning Food at 3 wks and they have just had Kiera's milk and the food. On the odd occasion when Kiera has decided that she is not on the menu I have given the pups a pint of goat's milk. Comparing this litter with previous ones, these are in superb condition, they eat fewer meals and are extremely content. I find they eat best when fed 3 times a day, if I offer food more often they might lick at it but as they are obviously not hungry the chose to leave it. I feed to appetite and yesterday they ate 1 kg in the morning, 2.2 kgs mid afternoon and their third meal was around 8 pm when they ate another 1 kg. Breakfast this morning was 1 kg puppy plus a pint of goat's milk, all are now very content and sleeping it off. Another bonus of feeding this food is that they are incredibly "clean", their urine and stool output is much less than pups fed on a kibble diet. Their growth is very even and all pups are in excellent condition with the most beautiful liquid silk skin.

Returning to your comment about the food bolting - as there is less food in the bowl to start with it stands to reason then that if a dog did bolt its food it would take in less air than if fed a larger amount of a different food. If you haven't tried your dogs on this diet then I strongly recommend you consider it.


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## SlingDash (Jul 30, 2010)

> If you haven't tried your dogs on this diet then I strongly recommend you consider it.
> Reply With Quote


Hi Sue,

We are on a raw diet. We have been for about a week now.

Regrets? That we never knew about it sooner! :thumbup:


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

Wonderful news.

The trouble is that the majority of dog food companies are BUSINESSES at the end of the day and those producing kibble diets use the "waste products" of the human food market. Just look at who owns whom:

James Wellbeloved - bought out years ago by Royal Canine who were later bought out by Pedigree - who owns Pedigree? MARS.

The Purina, Friskies, Bakers range of dog foods - who owns Purina? NESTLE.

The Hill's Science Plan range of foods - who owns Hills Pet Nutrition? COLEGATE-PALMOLIVE.

Eukanuba, Iams? PROCTOR & GAMBLE.

It is thought that *80% of the World's pet-food market* is owned by just these *4 companies*.

The marketing teams were very clever in promoting the "convenience" aspect of feeding kibble diets and by doing so they have cornered the market and subsequently lined the pockets of many vets! By reverting to a natural diet your dog will be forever grateful and healthy. The beauty about the Natural Instinct range of foods (Natural Instinct - High Quality Natural Dog Food) is that you get everything the dog needs in a natural, raw AND convenient form - you cannot better it.

Here's to better dog health and lower vet bills.


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## tenryhamilton (Sep 29, 2010)

The Bloat term is used interchangeably scientific terms gastric dilatation volvulus (GDV) and gastric torsion dilation refers to the abnormal accumulation of air / liquid / foam in the stomach. Volvulus and spin at the time that the torsion of the stomach, swelling may occur with or without volvulus (twisting). When the stomach expands / stretches can be rotated 90 ° to 360 °, rotating among Moored in the esophagus (food pipe) and duodenum (upper intestine). The twisted stomach traps air, water and food in the stomach. bellied prevents the veins of the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog.


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## briony (Dec 4, 2010)

Hi i'm new and was just having a browse as i lost 2 dogs to bloat, i read through the thread and found peoples opinions interesting but i was a bit suprised how people take 'research' as gospel.
The original purdue study some years ago was based on data collection as is the new purdue report which was supposed to be out last month, its not exactly based on scientific research more a gathering of peoples experiences. (People were invited to fill out a questionaire)
Experienced breeders, old time breeders, long time owners etc all handed down that raised feeding was best and for many years that advice has been followed so it goes without saying that a high percentage of people raised fed their dogs versus a small minority that didn't. Armed with that then the amount of raised fed dogs who have suffered with bloat is obviously going to be considerably higher than the non raised feeders i would even go so far in saying its in the region of a 70/30 ratio.
Now with forums, chat rooms, breed specific pages etc people are talking and coming to the conclusion that raised feeding is a possible culprit and maybe it is but maybe it isn't at the end of the day there has been no specific research into bloat.
It will be interesting to see the new purdue report but i am pretty certain it will be the outcome that raised fed dogs are more at risk.
For the interested both my dogs were fed off the floor one was a raw feeder, the raw feeder was in season which i suspected contributed as she never had an easy time and was due to be spayed. The other had been out in the car and sometimes got over excited she bloated during that night and we were too late to save her and she was pts, neither were from the same lines but both were narrow in chest and both had prominent sternums, both were excessive panters when nervous I personally suspect its more genetical than we think with a bit of stress thrown in.
I honestly would like to see extensive research into bloat in certain breeds than say Hip dysplasia as HD although a debilitating condition isn't a killer.

Anyway thats my take on it


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## rizzle24 (Feb 22, 2011)

i think that my dog has this. he has been the vets this week with a swollen belly. hes an irish blue dog. They said he has protein fluid in his belly and have gave him tablets to hopefully reduce the ammount in there. we take him back next monday in the hope that the fluid has reduced and if so they can operate and investigate the cause and hopefully resolve. However if we go back and there is no change then chances are we will have to have him put to sleep. Hes only 8 and it usually a hand full of joy however hes just a shadow of himself. Just lying in the rooms and not interested in anything. fingers well and truly crossed but ti isnt looking good


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## Alex James (Feb 22, 2011)

It can take very little time to bloat, especially if there is twisting of the gut (volvulus), which basically twists the stomach off like twisting the end of a bread bag.


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## obama6493 (Mar 2, 2011)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> I know that above Mo has written that using a rasied feeding bowl makes your dog more prone to Bloat however I would recommend knowing the breed of dog you have as to which bowl to use. I have Lurchers one of which is a Saluki X Greyhound who is 4 years old. I use a raised feeding bowl for him as it is recommended for more Greyhound as it is important to consider musculoskeletal problems, which are common for retired racers or workers who often have old injuries. Eating from raised dishes can reduce strain on the neck and back and lessen discomfort on arthritic joints, as well.


I actually agree if a dog has an injury of some sort that prevents it using a bowl on the floor then you have no real option.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

http://www.gdca.org/Bloat Chart.pdf
Found this


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2011)

Can one of you mods make old DT's bloat threads a sticky please - Not discounting mo in any way shape or form - but they were bang uptodate!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Can you find it me and I will


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2011)

rizzle24 said:


> i think that my dog has this. he has been the vets this week with a swollen belly. hes an irish blue dog. They said he has protein fluid in his belly and have gave him tablets to hopefully reduce the ammount in there. we take him back next monday in the hope that the fluid has reduced and if so they can operate and investigate the cause and hopefully resolve. However if we go back and there is no change then chances are we will have to have him put to sleep. Hes only 8 and it usually a hand full of joy however hes just a shadow of himself. Just lying in the rooms and not interested in anything. fingers well and truly crossed but ti isnt looking good


If your dog had bloated it would not survive a few days - it would be dead in hours - if the bowel were twisting then maybe longer! but sounds like a pshaphagous problem ! (spelt wrong) please someone correct that for me!!!
Dont know where you are - but John williams of the Willows in chester is a fantastic referel vet for this type of problem! (built my dog a outlet valve from the stomach and saved her life and she were near dead!)


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

I noticed some things on this thread regarding gulping water at food times.

Does this mean dry food should not have added water? 

Thanks.


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## mistysmom (Apr 10, 2011)

My dog is small/medium but she looks fairly deep-chested. She wolfs her food something terrible, she has scared me quite a few times nearly choking herself. Each time that happened I started giving her her food in large spoonfuls at a time and not the whole meal. It took 10 minutes to feed her but stopped the choking thing. That hasn't happened for a while now so I'm letting her eat her food normally. But she's still eating much too fast!
Basically she scares me the way she eats. She often burps afterwards. Sometimes she drinks water after eating, not a lot, but some. I never thought this was dangerous before.

Now since reading this I realize she could be in real danger.
What I've decided to do is:

*Feed her out of a very large bowl (instead of her usual dish) so she will have to slow down some to chase her food around the bowl.

*Take away her water dish until an hour or so after eating. Yes she can drink but not right immediately on top of a large meal (part of her food is home-cooked moist food anyway so she's not going to dehydrate for an hour!)

*Never never never let her eat just after coming back from a walk
(We always have a last walk before dinner, which is her usual, not a sedate walk but a 2-hour job with frisbee and ball etc, and when we come in she's ravenous. I always let her calm down and rest a little before food but she would hassle me so much for her dinner, that after about 10-15 minutes I'd give in and feed her.) Now I'm going to leave feeding her for an hour, whether she likes it or not.

And maybe split her 2 meals a day (breakfast and dinner) into 3 meals (breakfast, lunch and dinner)

Thanks for this thread. It has made me very much more aware.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

The information is confusing. 

My dog has had James wellbeloved dry kibble since a puppy and only the last two days I've had episodes of faster heartbeat and panting after dinner, but both of them were allievated by a slice of dry toast after which her breathing went back to normal and she laid down and settled down to bed.

If it had been bloat surely she would have died as I didn;t relaised this was what it could be as she has never had it before. 

one of first four ingredients in her kibble is lamb meat meal is that the same thing as mentioned in the original post? 

I'm wondering now whether to get her a bowl with bumps in to slow down eating or a raised feeder. She does have deep chest as she is border collie/whippet cross, but no vet has ever mentioned this to me. 

I was also never told not to walk or exercise her an hour BEFORE or after feeding as she has always had her breakfast after her morning walk and even during those two episodes she was fine throughout the day and they only occured after her dinner which she does wolf down. 

I split it so mix half kibble with gravy and meat and sometimes some veg and other half is scattered over garden in summer or in her puzzles treat toys if its raining/snowing. 

if it wasn't bloat what else could it have been? or is it possible to have a milder case where the twisting doesn't occur and it goes off? Maybe it was just from heat (it had been hot humid) and exercise after dinner?


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> The information is confusing.
> 
> My dog has had James wellbeloved dry kibble since a puppy and only the last two days I've had episodes of faster heartbeat and panting after dinner, but both of them were allievated by a slice of dry toast after which her breathing went back to normal and she laid down and settled down to bed.
> 
> ...


Believe you me , your dog , or anyones dog would have died had it have had gastric torsion (bloat) Had it have NOT been treated!

glad your dogs OK
xx


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

I know I'm a newbie (3rd post) here so some of the old hands may judge me by my post count. But I have seen this in real life.

A neighbour who has far too many dogs called me to pop over and look at one of his smaller pets. The 5-6Kg mixed breed dog had a very distended stomach, it really does sound like a drum when tapped with a finger and had an unproductive gagging/cough. The dog was distressed but strangely did not run away that night, as that one was nervous of guests normally. If you have read the various write ups you can tell at once what it is, I explained the seriousness of the problem and said you have hours to react (minutes?), so get in the car now - not wait till morning.

This will make my neighbour sound heartless and naive if not worst, but before I had arrived he had given the dog a laxative tablet. I said that would not help the blockage as it is at the stomach stage before the intestine. He then suggested pain killer tablets. (He is retired and although normal in conversation does get some strange ideas.) As it was clear he would not be seeking professional help that night I spent the time showing him bloat web sites and offering to drive him/his wife to an animal hospital that is open 24Hr about 45 minutes away. He refused. :mad2:

The next day his wife went to the hospital with the dog, bloat was confirmed but died during the operation to free the twisted stomach.

Looking back and learning from the experience I think that the way in which the dogs (about 6 in the Pack at the time - mixed sizes) were fed and the dog's general condition (bit flabby) contributed. There was competition for food and some bullying between the smaller dogs. So bolting of food (a tinned jelly and soaked biscuit) meant it was eaten too quickly IMO.

There are on sale dog bowls with raised sections in the middle to slow the bolting of food.


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

I lost my beautiful Bernese Mountain dog to bloat, I had never even heard of the condition and didn't know what signs to look for 
She ate her evening meal and was her usual smiley happy self, about an hour later she started to retch to vomit but nothing was coming out, she tried to settle down for a sleep but was obviously finding it difficult to get confortable...I thought maybe she'd eaten something she shouldn't from outside and had an upset stomach, I kept and eye on her and ended up staying up all night with her, by 4am she seemed a bit happier and managed to get comfortable and sleep a few hours, she woke at 7am and looked over the worst...wagging her tail and looking much happier, suddenly at about 7:30am she collapsed and wet herself, obviously at this point I knew something was seriously wrong, we rushed her to an emergency vet who informed me it was bloat, they did operate which they said was successful but she wasn't able to come around after the anaesthetic.

I have never been so devastated in all my life, in under 12 hours she had gone from healthy and happy to dead, she was only 5 years old and she was my best friend and I will never get over losing her.

I can't stress strongly enough how important it is to learn about this, especially if you have a breed of dog which is prone to this horrible condition...if I had known more about it maybe my beautiful Koda would still be with me now.


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## joscho19 (Oct 23, 2011)

Hello all

I am unfortunately on here for a sad reason. We lost our beloved German Shepard dog on 31st August this year due to bloat. I am writing on here to let others know of the symtoms to look for so that hopefully what happened to us will not happen to any of you. I only wish id seen any information on bloat prior to that terrible night. 

Our German shepard (Buck) was a fit, healthy rescued 5 year old boy who was absolutely fine throughout the whole day (he had a walk and his tea as usual), however he became ill at 9.30 at night. He began to: continually pace, throw up white foam and have seriously loud wind! We kept checking on him thinking that he just had an upset stomach and we would call a vet first thing in the morning. Unfortunately, he had died by 8.15am and he was cold so we think he must of died within 8 hours of first becoming ill. I am still racked with guilt about not taking him to the vet in time. Although i think we may have been too late because it was so aggressive, i believe that if i had recognised the symtoms much earlier there would still have been a chance of saving him. We think that Buck got the deadly bloat from inhaling too much air. He always tried to 'eat' his water rapidly in huge gulps if he was thirsty and that night he had done that as usual. However, this night it proved fateful. 

I am not trying to scare anyone i just want to let you know the symtoms that i wish id recognised so that it doesnt happen to you.


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## joscho19 (Oct 23, 2011)

Lisa, Im sorry for your loss and unfortunately i know exactly how it feels. The shock and trauma of losing a dog so quickly cannot be put in to words.


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Joscho19
Thank you for your kind words, I'm also very sorry to hear your sad news...I totally understand your feelings of guilt, I've given myself a very hard time since it happened with that "If only I had...." thoughts running around in my mind, I feel very cheated because she was only 5 and she should still be here with me.
I had also lost a Newfoundland (due to old age and failing heart) just 3 months before so it was an extremely difficult time.
I love dogs and have always had them in the family since being a small child and adjusting to life without one has been strange, my daughters (ages 6 & 9) do nag at me sometimes to get another but I always have to say no, I can't replace her and I couldn't go through all that again....at the moment we just have 3 goldfish! Much less heart ache.

PLEASE everybody...it is vital that you learn everything you can about this horrible condition, the speed at which it can kill a happy healthy dog is scary and knowing the signs and symptoms before they happen can mean the difference between life and death, too many good dogs are lost to bloat...don't let your beloved furry friend become one of them!!

Wishing you and your pet(s) health and happiness...
Lisa x


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## AskieAmerEskimo (Nov 4, 2011)

"Feeding your dog from a raised bowl increases the risk of bloat by 110%." This is very alarming. Can small dogs also get bloated?


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## AskieAmerEskimo (Nov 4, 2011)

"Feeding your dog from a raised bowl increases the risk of bloat by 110%." This is very alarming. Can small dogs also get bloated?


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

I have had Rhodesian Ridgebacks for over 30 years and currently have 7, Ridgebacks are a breed that has had its fair share of bloat incidents. I have ALWAYS fed from raised bowls and will ALWAYS do so. Calculate for yourself the number of years I have had RRs, the number I have (7) and they are fed twice daily - 7 x 2 x 365 = 5,110 meals a year x 30 = *153,300* meals over a 30 year period. I lost one lovely girl to bloat and this could not be put down to raised bowls, feeding time, exercise or anything else, it was just "one of those things" that can happen to MANY large, deep chested breeds which tend to be more prone to bloat than smaller breeds. If, according to other peoples' comments feeding from raised bowls caused bloat then surely I would have had many bloat incidents. One incident was one too many but in my experience the risks of feeding from raised bowls is minuscule compared to the benefits.

I never want another dog to die of such a horrible painful condition, look at the ingredients on a bag/tin of dog food, they are ALL processed and contain an awful lot of rubbish, start by feeding your dogs properly and as nature intended - feed a RAW meat food. If you are in the UK look at Natural Instinct - Home for the best available. If you feed raw then you will have healthy dogs and low vet bills. Look at the ingredients on the food you are feeding, I bet you can't even pronounce half the ingredients let alone know what they are (use the internet and you will soon find out what rubbish and dangerous preservatives are in the food) - compare these ingredients to those in the Natural Instinct range. Also, if kibble was the best food to feed your dog or cat why don't zoos feed kibble diets to their lions, leopards, wolves, wild dogs, hyenas and EVERY other meat eating animal in their care? The only time I used a bowl on the floor was with a 15 year old bitch who became food-obsessed as she got older, I fed from from a washing up bowl on my tiled kitchen floor. By spreading her food around she could only take small amounts as she chased the bowl around the kitchen, it moved away from her every time she hit the side of the bowl - it worked for her (tried the balls in the bowl, she knocked them over the side). My advice is to feed a BARF diet and use a raised feeding bowl for large breed dogs.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Imbali Sue said:


> My advice is to feed a BARF diet and use a raised feeding bowl for large breed dogs.


Checkout the research by Purdue University into gastric torsion, A raised bowl - although NOT the primary cause, can be contributary to bloat!

I have deep chested dogs two, have dealt first hand with bloat of my own dogs MORE then once, and survived.

Deep chested dog owners SHOULD = know the drill regarding feeding and exercising
To add! many forget that one of the main causes of bloat is actually stress!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Apparently I never noticed this thread before :lol:

[youtube_browser]U1WrT2719yo[/youtube_browser]
Great video been posted on youtube felt the need to share.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

i am so so so sorry to everyone here who has loved their beloved dog through this shocking disease. it must be so hard to share such terrible stories but you are doing such a good service to all owners who have never experienced it and potentially saving many lives.

I didn't want to read this thread as i thought it may be too distressing and in a way i am right but i am glad i have read this and know the signs to look for and to rush my dog to an emergency vet if ever they should present themselves.

thank you to the brave owners whose dogs have sadly passes. my thoughts are with you.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Just hunted this thread down for advice.

I am fully aware of the precautions for deep chested dogs and follow them to the letter, however, I have been increasingly concerned about my youngster. After meals he 'bloats up' with a stomach as tight as a drum and then spends the next hour belching and burping like a good un. I have even taken to attempting to 'wind him' like you would a baby, gentle patting/rubbing on his sides which sometimes assists a burp.

Have read a few of the links and think I may have figured it, or at least something, out.

As you may be aware I have two dogs, currently four and one years old. Both dogs are fed in bowls on the floor and start at the same time with the same amount of food.The older one always finishes first so you would expect him to have the problem, but it's the slower finisher who bloats up. Having just read a write up on a site somewhere about the 'dog pause' bowl something caught my eye and given me pause for thought.

My older dog doesn't gulp his meals but is constantly eating in a grazing style - nose down, lick some food in, chew swallow and repeat - he savours his meal yet will still finish first. The younger one is also nose down but seems to snatch at a mouthful of food, chew and gulp to swallow and yet finishes last.

The 'dog pause' write up I read mentioned that it encourages the dogs to use their tongues to eat with as opposed to biting at their food. So in essence I need to get the younger one 'licking' by making it harder to snatch at the food.

Before I go and buy a bowl to test this theory out I will attempt some homemade theories first and will update you on any progress/improvement or not.

PS - the youtube clip comparison was very useful, well done :thumbup1:


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## jackiep (Nov 18, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> Just hunted this thread down for advice.
> 
> I am fully aware of the precautions for deep chested dogs and follow them to the letter, however, I have been increasingly concerned about my youngster. After meals he 'bloats up' with a stomach as tight as a drum and then spends the next hour belching and burping like a good un. I have even taken to attempting to 'wind him' like you would a baby, gentle patting/rubbing on his sides which sometimes assists a burp.
> 
> ...


Good luck & Keep us all posted how you get on coz it could be of benefit to someone in the future :thumbup1:


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## Imbali Sue (Apr 10, 2010)

Hi Irish Setter Gal,

Your posting is very worrying, no dog should show the symptoms yours does after eating. If I were you I would change the food immediately (see my previous posting). Commercial dried diets swell up, are un-natural, they also dehydrate the dog. Remember, we are 70% water as are dogs, cats, rabbits, birds etc. Dogs, cats, wolves, lions, and every other carnivorous predator is geared to eat a food that is 70% moisture, if you are feeding a dried diet then in order for your dog to be able to digest it, it will have to use water from its own system to do just that. Look at the armed forces these days - they have removed dehydrated rations/treats from their diet, why? For exactly the same reason given above - they dehydrate the soldiers. Just try feeding raw and see how different your dog will be after eating - no swelling, no gases.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Doesn't make any difference, tripe, bones or biscuits, same result. They usually have mix of biscuits and tripe for most meals and darling hubby usually moistens the whole meal with warm water. I really believe it's how he's eating, not what he's eating in this case. 

Thanks for the concern though, I am too hence the decision to try to do something about it.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

We have one of these










Best things we've ever bought


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Which make is it, and I'll include it in my trial assessment of changing his eating habits


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I got it from pets at home for about £6  

You could also, if you have a big bowl, put tennis balls in it


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Day One

Used a ceramic egg holder (dozen sized), piled his tea into the hollows and layered on top.

Once he'd figured out teeth on ceramic hurt and couldn't bite the tops off, he used his tongue to get at the food, after scattering the toplayer allover the floor.

Put out for wee and straight to bed area.

Checked belly after half hr - sleek and smooth.

Checked belly after hr - still sleek and smooth.

Will do same tomorrow brekkie (hubby feeds then and is on board with the trial) and same routine for tea.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> We have one of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a very similar one and it certainly stopped my dog from gulping her food down. Well worth the cost IMO.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

lucylastic said:


> I have a very similar one and it certainly stopped my dog from gulping her food down. Well worth the cost IMO.


Am experimenting DIY to determine the reason behind his bloat - it it turns out that the 'egg holder' theory works then the 'purpose' bowl will be tried.

PAH supply?


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Latest update

Day Two and Three saw the same tea being fed from the egg holder and straight to bed - looking good both nights. His breakfast this morning was observed to eaten less 'gulpy' in style with much more use of the tongue. Hubby is wondering if he's ravenous hungry and this contributes to the snatching - he is going through a normal setter 'skinny' phase as he continues to grow.

Day four will be the same and then I will buy a 'proper'bowl to contain the food.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

[youtube_browser]U1WrT2719yo[/youtube_browser]


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Aww that was awful to watch  Good information though


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> We have one of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Things seem to have improved so much by getting him to use his tongue more that I have just ordered one of these.

My conclusion so far is it's not the speed that's a factor it's the snatching of food that has been causing him to blow up after eating. Using my egg holder has forced him to use his tongue and thus chew a little more rather than gulp in air when snatching - my next test will be a 'proper' bowl and to remove the other dog from sight (I also think there may be a competitive element to his eating)


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Tonights experiment was with the normal large food bowl but with our metal coffee can (wrapped in clingfilm) in the middle thus creating a narrow gap for him to eat from around the edge - slowest and most gentle I've seen him eat in ages with a sleek and smooth tummy for the rest of the evening.

Over the week we have had success in the attempt to stop the gulping and snatching style of eating thus reducing the intake of air into his tummy.In fact tonight we have had no 'burping/belching' from him at all. 

Will be interesting to compare the coffee can restriction with the properly designed bowl currently awaiting delivery. Will update after we have used the new bowl - it is Christmas so could take forever to arrive.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Update:

Took Charlie to the vets for annual booster/check and discussed our recent 'air intake' episodes and she has recommended a Gastroplexy as prevention rather than cure. She says what we are currently doing is the right thing, but still won't necessarily prevent torsion from occurring even though ours is predominantly 'air' based.

Have posted a separate thread to ask for advice.


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## yabbadoo (Jan 6, 2012)

I have not read most of this thread, because it is too traumatic in the light of my experience. Here is my story :-

My adorable big GS died suddenly at 1.30 am on Saturday 22 August 2009. He was perfectly normal all day Friday, ate his evening meal OK and was just himself until about 9.30 pm. Then he started being sick - vomiting, which got very violent and he vomited many times, bringing up yellow matter in a jelly.

It would not come away easily and I had to pull it out at times. Having settled down by 12.30 in the kitchen, I checked him 3 times and he seemed to be asleep for the night. I heard two coughs at 1.30 am, went to see him and he was dead. A large pool of dark blood had come out of his rear end. I assume he had ruptured something vital with all that heavy reaching.

The vet said it was most likely gas causing a twisted gut - a condition that comes on quickly without warning and is fatal within around 3 hours.

He was in his prime at 6 years 4 months and formed a big part of our everyday life. He was our only family.

We knew all about being careful after eating and what the experts say, but still the best friend I ever had died. We just did not understand why and still do not. The whole thing will be with me until death do us part.

The problem :-

We fed him on large kibble because he was a very big dog in a raised food bowl, it was one of the best food makes available and expensive.

Doing a water test, I found that this kibble which was about 15-20 cm. diameter absorbed water to swell it to about 50%+ it`s normal size. With a feed of 250 grms. twice per day that is a lot of volume and gaseous increase.

It is my conviction that this large water absorbent kibble killed him.

We now feed our dog on small kibble that has almost not water absorbing qualities and mix it with wet canned food. So far it has been highly successful.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

So sorry to hear of your loss and is the reason I started to attend to my dog issues.

Our progress to date has had some success and according to our vet at the last check up we are doing all the right things ....... but, she has recommended he have a Gastroplexy which whilst won't reduce the bloat will reduce his risk of torsion which bloat susceptible dogs can be prone to.

1. We have switched to this bowl and it has slowed him down alot, but he most definitely has to use his tongue to fish the food out.

http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/Product-3757/Dog-Supplies/Drinkwell-Drinkwell-Platinum-Drinkwell-Big-Dog-Road-Refresher-dog-bowls-and-feeder/Animal-Instincts-Anti-Skid-Slow-Feed-Bowl

2. He is fed 100gm skinners dry and 300g minced tripe (still a youngster and needs lots) twice a day

3. He is fed separate (different room) to our other dog since his tail position has indicated he is 'stressed' when they eat together, and according to the vet this can also be a potential cause of bloat. This has worked in that he does appear less stressed (tail no longer tucked under) when eating.

4. He is put straight into bed after eating and restricted with movements in that they are both in a small penned area in the kitchen.

5. I take note of the 'fizzing' and 'expansion ability' of food and these are another couple of avenues to explore (many thanks for that one)

I have yet to decide on going with the operation, it carries a risk not least financial if the insurance company won't pay for it. The vet is fab and we have discussed how to approach this and she is determined that since she has recommended it as treatment and other words, we should get it through.

Any thoughts on this one?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> Update:
> 
> Took Charlie to the vets for annual booster/check and discussed our recent 'air intake' episodes and she has recommended a Gastroplexy as prevention rather than cure. She says what we are currently doing is the right thing, but still won't necessarily prevent torsion from occurring even though ours is predominantly 'air' based.
> 
> Have posted a separate thread to ask for advice.


My dog had her stomach stitched to the wall following her first bloat - she did bloat again, the stomach never twisted though but the bowels.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

DT said:


> My dog had her stomach stitched to the wall following her first bloat - she did bloat again, the stomach never twisted though but the bowels.


Did you mean to say the 'bowels *did*' twist?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> Did you mean to say the 'bowels *did*' twist?


Yep! the bowels twisted.
The vet was convinced she would die as when he opened her up they were black, he stitched he up and left her under GA when he went back to check there was diaroah on the table - he rang me immediately and said he had NEVER in all his days been so happy to see a pile of poo!
Unfortunately I lost her a year later on 12th March 2008 - aged four and a half - not from Bloat I add.
Her name was Misty , she was that special dog - I have a tear in my eye even now thinking of her


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## yabbadoo (Jan 6, 2012)

Bloat in not only dogs but other animals like horses etc. is a curse.

Nobody, whether an individual or a specialist authority knows why bloat occurs. They give a variety of possible causes but do not know why the problem suddenly happens and kills animals.

I guess we are stuck with this plague, have to take notice of all the possible causes and try our best to avoid the problem. There is no guarantee, we just have to do our best and hope it is good enough.

I am well aware that many posters crucify me for rabbiting on about dry food. But having lost one of the best friends I ever had, I do not give a toss for their opinions. I KNOW that the water absorption of dry food causing massive swelling of the food and gaseous emission CAN cause bloat. No discussion - THAT is it ! You do not agree, then be my guest and kill your dog. Then rethink your beliefs.

And my dog HAD a raised feeding bowl as recommended by these so called experts.

Just like humans - AVOID food that excessively swells inside the stomach and generates copious amounts of gaseous emissions. THEN you just may be a step nearer in making sure your beloved pet does not suddenly die in front of your very eyes writhing in agony for 2-4 hours.

I can assure every sceptical or argumentative reader that this tragic experience is one that will leave you with nightmares for the rest of your life. It has me. But then, you just may remember yabbadoo`s posts and regret having crucified him for being an idiot.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

No-one crucified you, everyone agrees that bloat is a serious, sometimes life threatening issue. What we couldn't understand is why you still feed kibble and why you feed very poor quality wet food.


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

yabbadoo said:


> Bloat in not only dogs but other animals like horses etc. is a curse.
> 
> Nobody, whether an individual or a specialist authority knows why bloat occurs. They give a variety of possible causes but do not know why the problem suddenly happens and kills animals.
> 
> ...


You don't need to tell me what a tragic and heartbreaking experience this is, as you probably know from the other discussion I have been exactly where you are too and my best friend was taken from me due to bloat (if you wish to know my story it is on page 8 of this thread), you said in your post "You do not agree, then be my guest and kill your dog. Then rethink your beliefs"...well no I do not agree with you, but rather than killing my dog (harsh but your words) I actually think I have gone further than you to ensure the safety of my dog by cutting out altogether what you believe caused the death of both our dogs!

I am not trying to argue with you one little bit, on the contrary...I completely agree with some of the things you are saying, however I do struggle to understand why you continue to feed kibble (albeit a different kind but kibble none the less)....I would seriously have thought you would be of the same mind as me on this one, especially when owning deep chested breeds that are more prone to the condition.
I now own a husky and I will not feed her kibble, understandably after my experiece I am ultra paranoid and simply refuse to risk putting my dog (or myself) through that ever again, I have chosen to feed raw because it is the best way to feed (in my opinion), not just because of the risks of bloat but for many, many other reasons.

Please don't think I'm trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't feed your dog, that of course is your choice...however after reading your story and your feelings regarding kibble I am just struggling to understand why you wouldn't stay away from kibble altogether as I am.

You say your current kibble gives minimal expansion...if you are happy with that reduced risk then thats fine, however after what my dog and I went through that is still not enough peace of mind for me.


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## yabbadoo (Jan 6, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> No-one crucified you, everyone agrees that bloat is a serious, sometimes life threatening issue. What we couldn't understand is why you still feed kibble and why you feed very poor quality wet food.


Oh dear, why do we have to get into a pointless argument which I have already explained in detail ?

Firstly Pedigree Chum canned products are NOT poor quality foods, they are in fact one of the best foods available. You say it is poor quality, then this is your own opinion and certainly not that of the industry and qualified experts.

Secondly, I have explained to the point of boredom that the dry food which I currently use - Barking Heads has under test by me shown a minimal expansion when subjected to water absorption, whereas the kibble that my beloved dead dog had, although produced by one of the best suppliers on the market, swelled to around 50% of it`s packaged size. AND it was much larger kibble.

All was as recommended by the supplier for a large dog. I do nothing wrong, but do take notice of expert recommendations until that confidence is shattered by use in practice.

PLEASE recognise ONE thing that I have said - I do not recommend that kibble should be treated like some poison. It is perfectly OK providing that the water absorption characteristics and gaseous emission is at a minimal level and the kibble size is appropriate to the dog size.

To test a kibble :-
Buy a small amount. Place a few kibbles in a saucer of lukewarm water. Wait for 2 hours and then see how much the kibble has expanded.

I did this and the Barking Heads kibble for which I am accused of being a sales agent for, did not swell very much at all. THAT is why I still use this kibble mixed with that market leader of wet food - Pedigree Chum. And I am not a sales agent for Pedigree Chum either, just a responsible customer who feeds his dog the best food I can without considering dried pigs ears or the various ridiculous concoctions that some other rather odd people appear to stuff into their animals and feel proud of it.


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## toryb (Jul 11, 2011)

yabbadoo said:


> Firstly Pedigree Chum canned products are NOT poor quality foods, they are in fact one of the best foods available. You say it is poor quality, then this is your own opinion and certainly not that of the industry and qualified experts.


Unfortunatly the information given about ped products beiing good are from the makers and sellers. Pedigree is crap...there are no two ways about it! There are MUCH better wet food products out there! You seem very confident in what you say yet its just not true 

The ingredients~
Sufficient water for processing, Chicken, Meat By-products, Wheat Flour, Beef, Liver, Wheat Gluten, Pearl Barley, Salt, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Natural Flavors, Guar Gum, Caramel Coloring, Vegetable Oil (source of Linoleic Acid), Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), Sodium Alginate, Natural Smoke Flavor, Xanthan Gum, Onion Powder, Bay Leaves, Vitamins (Vitamin E, A & D3 Supplements, D-calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate {Vitamin B1}, Biotin), Garlic Powder, Sodium Nitrite (for color retention).


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## yabbadoo (Jan 6, 2012)

toryb said:


> Unfortunatly the information given about ped products beiing good are from the makers and sellers. Pedigree is crap...there are no two ways about it! There are MUCH better wet food products out there! You seem very confident in what you say yet its just not true
> 
> The ingredients~
> Sufficient water for processing, Chicken, Meat By-products, Wheat Flour, Beef, Liver, Wheat Gluten, Pearl Barley, Salt, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Natural Flavors, Guar Gum, Caramel Coloring, Vegetable Oil (source of Linoleic Acid), Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), Sodium Alginate, Natural Smoke Flavor, Xanthan Gum, Onion Powder, Bay Leaves, Vitamins (Vitamin E, A & D3 Supplements, D-calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate {Vitamin B1}, Biotin), Garlic Powder, Sodium Nitrite (for color retention).


Fine Toryb, Pedigree Chum is utter crap as you so expertly define. I myself, thousands of satisfied users and the entire pet food nutritional and expert establishment bow to your infinite superior knowledge.

But my dog loves it. Quite honestly, it looks and smells so good that I am tempted to have a toasted Chum sandwich on many occasions.

Please can we get back on topic, which is BLOAT. We do not want a discussion on Pedigree Chum or any other pet food. I have given what I believe is an important factor in preventing bloat. OK, it involves food, but that does not mean we have to divert the thread into a long irrelevant ramble on dog food. I feel the subject has gone way past it`s "Sell by date".

Having had a tragic personal experience with bloat, I have done an extensive survey of the subject on the web and know all the other factors that pose a risk.

Now, let us simply take note of my own experiences and conclusions and concentrate on this scourge from another direction.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Dear me, here we go again! Dried Pedigree Chum contains carcinogens (I linked it on the other thread). It is horrible, cheap rubbish. You cannot in all seriousness try to tell people that it's any good at all! The only reason it is bought is because they advertise it well and it's an established brand. 

McDonalds advertise well and sell well, too. Does that mean I can eat lots of it? Fab, I'm off!


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Can we please leave out the personnal insults on this thread, many thanks.......RAGGS.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

raggs said:


> Can we please leave out the personnal insults on this thread, many thanks.......RAGGS.


My apologies. But I stand by everything said.


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Lyceum said:


> My apologies. But I stand by everything said.


apology accepted.........Raggs


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

raggs said:


> apology accepted.........Raggs


Just too add though. Myself (and no doubt other posters) find it insulting to Be condescended too by someone sat firmly on their high horse.

If the posts of said member are checked you will see they all have the same know it all manner. Even to mods.

Yet it's deemed completely acceptable for a certain poster to attempt to belittle, condescend to and insult other members.

I don't see how that's okay.

I could have worded my post better, but am peeved with the attitude. I apologise for how it was said, not what was said.

Don't see how it's fine for one poster and not for others.

But hey ho.


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## porchpotty (Aug 3, 2011)

Thank you for the very useful information.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

After nearly a month since my last post, I thought I'd give another update.

I have not gone through with the op yet.

We have discovered that another primary trigger for his bloat has been stress. To cut a very long story short, he bloats when fed with the other dog around, did it when at the vets after returning from the nurses station after having a bandage applied, and when under pressure in general.

We now feed both dogs isolated from each other, have been through a programme of de-stressing around food, soak any dry kibble if given, try to feed raw where possible, stick to the rules on exercise before/after feeding, put him straight to bed after food and in general treat him as a dog that needs stress out of his life. It's as if he is internalising stress that then manifests itself as bloat, yet outwardly he appears quite bold, unafraid and not backwards in coming forwards in social situations with other dogs and people.

He still bloats, but rarely now, and being so aware of the potential for torsion means we manage the problem with great care and our eyes open. What we don't do though is pander to him nor wrap him in cotton wool, just manage what we have.


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## AskieAmerEskimo (Nov 4, 2011)

Is it true that dogs can have a better chance of having bloat if they are fed with water in a hanging bottle and not it a bowl? I'm really curios about it and I think it's true.


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## doggiepal (Oct 30, 2011)

My dog is recovering from surgery after a torsion so I thought I'd write this in case it's useful.

He is about 11 months old and it happened about 6 weeks ago. He is a medium, mixed breed, slender and not large chested like most breeds prone to this. 

He was fed by hand, good quality kibble, because I was training him but sometimes he get a couple of handfuls in his kong wobbler to bat around and that's what he'd had in the morning. Apart from dragging his blanket to place it under the radiator, I hadn't noticed anything unusual about his behaviour or manner. He did retch a couple of times but he did that a lot as a rescue dog with 'dodgy' digestion so, although I was 'keeping an eye on him' I wasn't unduly worried.

At 3pm I took him in the car to pick up the kids from school and I noticed he wasn't looking out of the window as normal, which was very strange. When we got back, he jumped out of the car as usual though and was wagging his tail and jumping about, obviously pleased to see the kids.

He seemed fine but when he ran up the stairs, I looked at him from the bottom and thought there was something odd about his shape. I called him down and his belly had, in that 40 or so minutes from getting in the car, swollen up, mostly on one side, to look like a misshapen ball.

Having read about bloat, I just got straight back in the car with him and the vet confirmed the worst.

The X ray showed that his stomach had swollen to fill almost the entire abdominal cavity and it had flipped, pulling his spleen with it. 

He had surgery and his stomach had to be cut open to remove a large mass of kibble (which he had definitely not had that day - some blockage perhaps causing it to stay in his stomach - I don't know.) 

His stomach was stitched to his abdomen wall to try to prevent another torsion but it won't prevent it bloating again so he is now fed a handful of food at a time several times a day, out of my hand or in his bed.

He lost a lot of weight at first because I could only give him a tablespoon of rice and chicken at a time but he is now back to full strength.

As a stray rescue, he's got some 'scavenging behaviour' that has reappeared after his ordeal but otherwise, the scarring is beautiful (ribs to penis) he seems very relaxed and happy and we're so glad he's still with us.

A word of warning - this treatment, which involved the vet taking him home overnight and him being monitored intensively for a couple of days where he was 'touch and go' cost £1250. We had good insurance, I'm glad to say, and it only cost us £75.

There were no obvious signs apart from the bloating - he was jumping and playing, he had opened his bowels - but he must have been in agony. Some dogs hide pain very well, just like other animals. It keeps them safe from predators in the wild I guess. 

So it's worth knowing, maybe, that your dog could seem okay but if their belly looks 'wrong', get it checked out!

Also - his 'dodgy' belly (can't eat dairy, can't eat wheat, can't eat eggs etc etc) has completely sorted itself out now. He has managed to snatch all sorts of goodies from the table in his 'scavenging' and there have been no problems (except of course the inconvenience of a 'naughty' puppy that I'm having to retrain! Poor little man.)


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Just shows that you need to 'know' your dog to spot the unusual. 

As per my previous posts, mine bloats exactly as described by Doggiepal but I know a good burp and he'll be fine.

As an update we are now switching fully to raw since mine bloats less when fed real food, and no, haven't yet followed the vets recommendation of the gastroplexy?

Doggiepal, glad your dog was ok and a good spot by your good self


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

I have not read all the posts so I just thought would add this as it may not be on here, it's relevant for anyone who may travell by car out of any area they know, whether your a passenger or driver does not matter.

If your travelling to a strange area, hols long week-end or any other reason the first stop primary safeguard & main hope is to buy a sat nav & add a vet (more if more than one is in the area) into the favourite destinations.

If suspect torsion starts & your in a strange area, especially when its dark....well Im sure enough is writeen on here to know what the consequences will be....a sat nav raises the odds, best have a few test drives locally to get used to following the sat nav, make no mistake it can be the most crucial tool in your arsenal if suspect torsion starts to set in.
.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Really useful information on here. As the proud owner of a 14 week old Irish Setter I've learned a lot. I was advised to buy raised feeding bowls by the breeder but of course I won't now be doing that!

My pup takes forever to eat her food - to the extent I was thinking about taking her bowl away after 20 minutes to try and get her to eat it a bit quicker. Now I think that eating it over a couple of hours each time is probably a lot better than teaching her to guzzle it.

Thanks for all the info!


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## hahgiwoofa (Jun 5, 2012)

Good grief that's scary stuff! I've had a couple of the deep chest breeds mentioned but never come across this (touch wood never will)

since reading this I'm bit paranoid about my 8mnth collie cos he bolts his dinner like it's going to run away!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Having Mals who are one of the breeds prone to bloat I never feed them before or after exercise. I wait two hours between exercise and food but |I do know of a Mal who hadn't even eaten and suffered bloat. I would like to point out that true bloat is not like a dog having wind, it's a build up of gas that cannot escape and eventually turns the stomach, twisting it and cutting ff blood supply and internal organs begin to die with infection setting in very quickly.

This is what a dog with bloat looks like.
Bloating akita - YouTube

Some more info.
Bloat in Dogs
I have printed this out and have it stuck to the inside of a kitchen cupboard door in case anyone in my house is ever concerned one of them may have bloat, they can quickly read through the signs and symptoms.

Raised food bowls and water dishes are not a good idea as the dog can take in more air with it's head held higher.

Glad to hear these dogs were okay, I am terrified of mine ever having this.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

All evidence points to bloat and torsion of the gut being two distinct events, sometimes they occur together.

The gut is flipped easier if there is bloat occurring.

Don't want to confuse the peeps :001_smile:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> All evidence points to bloat and torsion of the gut being two distinct events, sometimes they occur together.
> 
> The gut is flipped easier if there is bloat occurring.
> 
> Don't want to confuse the peeps :001_smile:


Nice to see you back; did switching to raw make any difference if you don't mind me asking?


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## doggiepal (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi

An update after our ordeal as I thought some people might find it useful.

Our dog became ill again recently and I spotted it early. His belly swelled up but it seemed to be lower down this time. He had a large amount of gas in his intestine, rather than his stomach. It was a very tough 24 hours after he'd come round from the anesthetic. He was quite unresponsive floppy.

We noticed he threw up a few days later and the food that came up, undigested, had been sitting in his stomach for at least 24 hours.

We took him for allergy tests and we now know what is causing it. I thought this may be useful information for other people whose dogs have 'dodgy tummies'.

He has a severe allergy to beef and lamb a moderate allergy to dairy products and a mild allergy to corn, barley, duck and pork.

He CAN eat chicken, turkey, rice, oats, wheat, soy, potato and oats. Not an easy diet for a dog to adhere to, but I'll post another thread for ideas!


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## lola57 (Jul 23, 2012)

oh dear,you live&learn!! have always used raised bowls for my big dogs could you explain how this increases the risk please? i would consider changing for my deerhound but my lurcher is in the late stages of paralysis of the larynx he is inclined to choke if he stretches down,the only dog who didnt have a raised bowl was my 1st gsd,nomatter where you put his bowl he would pickk it up & plonk it down next to me & lie down to eat it!!!i have never had a dog that gobbled his food so that helps i suppose,i always feed calmly with no fuss,think some people wind their dogs up at mealtimes??


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## Sezzastar (Oct 2, 2012)

leosrfab said:


> I lost my beautiful Leonberger to this nasty condition last april. I never restrict water just make sure that they dont gulp down loads as Bailey used to do.
> 
> My dog used to do very loud and large Burps after a meal.. this may also be a sign that they are prone to bloat.


So sorry to hear about Bailey.

We have a leo too, who we feed by a raised bowl once a day, who tries to bolt his food down, and who tries to gulp down water after a meal, and who burps very loudly for the rest of the evening.

We place a spoon in with his food to stop him bolting. But after reading this i think we will split his meal into 2. We do stop him gulping his water down too. Hoping this will help the burps!

Very worrying info and not too sure whether to raise the bowl or not now!!


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## Little Cheif (Jun 23, 2011)

This was a really great thing to write about.

I posted a blog on my website about bloat because my dog nearly died from this only a few weeks ago. Having owned dogs for more years then i care to remember, i always thought it would never happen to my dogs. Here's an extract from my blog. Ive kept it short here so as not to bore you lol.

*BLOAT and why this is so important you understand the symptoms.
*
I hope this article helps the reader in some way and the real reason I am writing this is because my Douge de Bordeaux puppy nearly died from bloat. His story is quite sad - starting from when I rescued him aged 7 months old. At that time, he suffered from a spinal injury. He was a pitiful sight, dragging himself around only on his front two legs and his only future was simply being put to sleep. Knowing that my invention - the 'Dogaids mobility harness' was going to help him slowly regain muscle and walk again, I decided to adopt him. Over the first few months he already started showing signs of improvement and after eight months or so he was walking without the aid of the Dogaids harness. He was coming to all the shows, exhibitions, and everyone loved him. Most of all, *I *loved him.

It was around this time, one evening, I gazed upon him sitting in the garden, all miserable and an extremely full belly. I cursed him quietly a few times and smiled to myself thinking that somehow he'd managed to get into his food cupboard and helped himself to the food bag.

I saw him again an hour later still sitting in the same position and this time his stomach looked twice as big! Immediately I went to the food cupboard and found it was locked! I realised straight away that he had bloat and rushed him to the veterinary hospital located close to my hometown of St Albans, Hertfordshire.

The vet examined him and confirmed the dog had bloat. I explained to the vet that he was uninsured because of his injury and even explained what the dog had been through, thinking stupidly that maybe my bill will be reduced!! The vet explained that they would need to carry out x-rays and give the dog some medication which would cost around £350.00. Furthermore if the stomach was found to be twisted, then it would be my choice as to what to do.

This 'my choice as to what to do' confused me, and then I realised that he meant money. So I asked him what the cost of an operation would be, to which he replied, £2500 for the operation and a further £2500 for the aftercare.

Although I had the money to pay for this, I had to ask him one more question "So.. if a little old lady came in here with her dog at 11pm in the evening as I have done, and say…, she couldn't afford to pay the £5000.00, let alone the £350.00, would you would simply put her dog to sleep"?

To which he replied, "If a charity stepped in and paid for the operation, of course we would operate, however, we are not a charity".

Fortunately, my little puppy didn't have a twisted stomach and he's all okay now, however, it could have all ended differently for him if I had not realised the symptoms of bloat.

Its up to you to decide as to what to do, but for myself,

I have changed his food from *Bakers *to *Barking Heads* (because its wheat free).
I no longer allow him access to the water bowl immediately before or after a meal.
I feed him smaller meals three times a day, and finally,
I feed all my three dogs separately to minimize any anxiety.

Now… lets get to telling you about Bloat In Dogs... (here it goes on about bloat in more detail).

Well done for bringing this subject up and even if it saves one dog, it was well worth writing about.


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## peterscot423 (Mar 25, 2013)

I think you should prevent to serving in a raised bowl it will increase the bloat.


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## weeziex1 (Mar 26, 2013)

I want to thank you for the info., on raisedbowls I was going to by one for my German Shepherd. We have a Roadhesion Ridgeback / Black and Tan Hound dog, he has had the beeging stages of bloat but we caught it in time. Our vet told us to buy a baby gas solution that comes in drops, I am going to attempt to spell it. Symethacone , he was laying around drooling, moaning, and his stomach was distended and hard. The vet said to thump his stomach and if it sounded like a drum there was a good chance it was bloat. It worked and he expelled the gas and he was back to himself in a couple of days, we were very lucky. It is also safe to use on Rabbits. Louise


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## Debz65 (Mar 29, 2013)

Very useful information everyone, thanks!


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

Does feeding wet food instead of dry reduce the chance of bloat?


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## Sarah89 (May 5, 2013)

Hellooo,

I've just joined this forum as I have just rehomed a 10 month old airedale terrier called Bella. I am aware that this breed can be prone to bloat and have been trying to acquire more information about it.

I've read through all 14 pages of this chat and I have to admit it's heightened my fears considerably!!

About a week ago I came across another web site (link below) and I am trying to comphrend it all, especially as it is a US site. To me it makes sense but I'm by no means an expert in this field and would love some of the people who have commented on this thread to analyse it in more depth.

It suggests that heightened food bowls, citric acid, water consumption etc etc as discussed in this thread are myths and that there is no real grounding in any of them due to lack of concrete research. Indeed, I think we can all agree that there is no proper, or at least conclusive, research into canine bloat.

Whilst I accept that the causes of bloat are likely to be vast, I am wondering if there is something we are missing but this article covers for us??

Bloat in Dogs, Bloat in Great Danes, GDV in Dogs, Torsion, Spleen torsion in Dogs | GREATDANELADY.COM

There is a link at the bottom of the above article which also makes interesting reading and if anyone can spare the time, I'd love to know thoughts on this as well and how this can be achieved in the UK???

best dog food, feeding large dogs, feeding great danes, pet nutrition, dog health, HOD, OCD, Pano, bowing knuckling, Yeast, Giardia, growth problems | GREATDANELADY.COM

Thanks
Sarah & Bella


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## Hopper (Feb 12, 2013)

moboyd said:


> so that people know the signs.
> 
> Introduction Bloat, Torsion. Gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV). Call it what you want, this is a serious, life-threatening condition of large breed dogs. While the diagnosis is simple, the pathological changes in the dog's body make treatment complicated, expensive, and not always successful.
> 
> ...


thanks for sharing, that's very good info!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Understanding inherited causes of canine bloat

Heredity is a known factor; we just don't know how much risk it adds.


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## Safedog (Nov 27, 2013)

We've been running a bloat awareness campaign since our dobermann bloated in 2008. We have a flyer available - simply listing the symptoms as an aide memoire. Hopefully the copy is attached to this (my first!) post.


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## Kattmartin2 (Feb 8, 2014)

My Italian Spinone had bloat a week ago and it was touch and go. If we hadn't taken him to the vet when we did he would have been a goner. Our dog also had the operation to tack his stomach to lessen the chances of bloat occurring again.

Since his op (almost £1,000) we have been feeding him Royal Canin Sensitive (£30 a tray of 12 cans). However we can't afford to keep this up and we are afraid to put him back on his good quality Field and Trial hypoallergenic complete dry food (we used to moisten this). 

Can anyone suggest what we should do?


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## wallp (Feb 12, 2014)

here's a new product from snugglesafe it can be used with wet or dry food and also water to slow the dog from eating and drinking too fast.
click on link.


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## pugfan34 (Aug 6, 2014)

Same here. My dogs aren't show dogs thats for sure, but I don't want them getting GDV. I think I'll put the food bowl on the floor and keep the water bowl up, just because my goons are mental gulpers and it seems to help with that


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

weeziex1 said:


> ...thank you for the info on raised bowls; I was going to buy one for my German Shepherd.
> 
> We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback x Black and Tan Hound, he's had the [early] stages of bloat, but we caught it
> in time. Our vet told us to buy a baby-gas solution [sold as] drops, [I'll] attempt to spell it: Symethacone ,
> ...


Gentle reader,
please note the section in *bold*.

Home-treatment for bloat is NEVER, ever suggested.
Bloat in any form is a *medical emergency* - whether the dog has GDV or simple bloat,
*s/he needs to see a vet - immediately.*

Louise was frankly, very lucky her dog survived - the odds of any dog living thru bloat WITHOUT
vet-care are extremely low. Had her dog's stomach flipped [torsion], he'd have been *unable
to burp at all, & her self-prescribed "treatment" would fail; her dog would have died
in extreme agony.* :nonod: Please don't take any chances - if U even suspect bloat,
*get to a vet immediately.* Don't wait, don't hope it gets better, go NOW.

Would U give home-treatment for a heart-attack or stroke? Of course not -
this is similarly an extreme danger, so treat it as one! - Get to the *vet*.

Saving money will not save Ur dog's life, but delaying care can cost that life.
Don't self-diagnose, & don't self-treat - let the VET do their job.
.
.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sarah89 said:


> ...
> About a week ago I [found] another web site (link below) & am trying to comprehend it all, especially as
> it's a US-site. ... I'm by no means an expert... & would love some of the people who've commented
> on this thread to analyse it in more depth.
> ...


If Ur statement is accurate - that this website claims "raised-bowls are NOT a risk-factor" & that there has
been "NO actual research on the causes of k9-bloat" - then i say that website is a rich source of horse-manure,
to be used on one's garden, & not for useful advice on safe care & husbandry of our dogs. :nono:

The actual research on raised-bowls & other factors was conducted, IIRC, by Univ of Penna vet-college.
They found FOUR major risk-fctors, but raised-bowls alone *increased any present risk by 100% -*
IOW, if the dog had ONE risk-factor, such as being a deep-chested large breed, eating from a raised bowl
instantly *doubled that risk*.

The link was so pronounced that they stopped the research immediately, in order to publish the results
& reduce the risk to the remaining dog-subjects.

Some other potent risk-factors:
- a near-relative has bloated [dam, sire, sibling, uncle, aunt, cousin].
- gobbling food.
- LARGE SWELL FACTOR in the particular dry-food: 
when wet, how much does it expand?
- eating immediately before or after aerobic exercise
[not a walk! - running, jumping, etc].

There HAS BEEN & CONTINUES TO BE actual research done on bloat - causes, risks, outcomes.
Opinions & experience are not sufficient to know how best to rear, feed, train, & so forth -
we actually need research & published findings, not only "i've done X, Y, & Z for years on end,
& all my dogs have been just fine".
.
.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

try viovet.co.uk for the royal canin sensitivity - its a lot cheaper than £30


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> All evidence points to bloat & *torsion of the gut* being two distinct events,
> sometimes they occur together.
> 
> The gut is flipped easier if... bloat [has already occurred].
> ...


i don't know what precisely is meant by "torsion of the gut", but stomach-torsion is a very specific
event, in which the stomach flips bottom-side up, & either or both of the entry & exit points,
the esophagus at the top end, & the small intestine at the bottom, are twisted shut when it flips.

*simple bloat *- gas production from fermentation, with the stomach in normal orientation & both
ends open - is step One.
*GDV - gastric dilation & volvulus* - is Step Two, when the gas volume is so great that the stomach
is forced to spin in the body-cavity, & the open tubing at one or both ends, twists closed.

Even in simple bloat, death is possible - the gas-pressure makes breathing, blood circulation [heart action],
etc, very difficult. Heart stress & an inability to breathe can cause fluid to accumulate in the lungs, further
stressing the dog's breathing, or the dog can suffer a stroke, the heart can fail, & so on.

I want to reiterate, for any dog-owner - *bloat in any degree is a life-threatening emergency,
& any dog with bloat symptoms should immediately be seen by a vet.*
Don't try to home-treat, or wait to see if the dog gets better! - see a vet, NOW.

If caught early, prior to stomach-torsion, the vet may be able to pass a tube into the stomach & reduce
the gas-volume, thus lowering the risk of GDV. This however does not mean the dog is fine, they need
very tight supervision & close monitoring until the stomach contents are EXPELLED from the anus.
That fermenting food must come out - then U can be relatively sure the crisis was averted.


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## Lizzytish6 (Jul 31, 2014)

Thank you very much for this details information. I have a Norfolk Terrier and I understand it is mainly the larger breeds of dog that get bloat. However, forewarned is forearmed so thanks again for such an indepth resource .

Liz aka Gus's Mum


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

AskieAmerEskimo said:


> Is it true that *dogs [are more-likely to] bloat if [given] water in a hanging bottle
> [versus] a bowl*?
> 
> I'm really curio*u*s about this, & I think it's true.


hi, Eskie! 

No, it's not - since dogs drinking from a bottle can only drink water as quickly as the bottle lets it out,
they can't gulp big mouthsful of water AND AIR, but lick a series of dribbles.

Puppies being housetrained who are crated when not directly supervised can especially benefit from such
"bunny-bottles", as the water can't be spilled, there's no bowl to flip-over in the crate & soak the pup,
the drinking water stays CLEAN, & we can see how much the pup has consumed, or even measure her or his
daily water-consumption for the vet, in case of injury or illness.

Similarly, dogs on crate-rest after an injury, surgery, or during illness can enjoy a bunny-bottle - they have
more room without a bowl taking up floor-space, no risk of stepping in it or dumping it, & so on.
Of course, water-bottles FOR DOGS are designed with a larger tube & larger capacity than those for small
pocket-pets, from rodents to rabbits, & have a faster flow.

Particularly those *dogs who inhale dry-food*, then gulp massive quantities of water & air, can benefit from
using a water-bottle --- but even more-important, such greedy fast-eaters should have their dry food
MOISTENED before it's given to them. Approx 1/2 the volume of dry-food in water or other fluid -
vegie stock, low-salt chicken or other meat-broth, etc - is added to the dry food, & the whole thing
is left to stand in the 'frig, for the fluid to be absorbed. The kibble should not become "mush" & fall apart;
if it does, either U added too much water or the composition is horrendously high in cheap filler & cereal!

Moistened kibble should then be put in a bowl WITH a few large, clean, smooth rocks atop the food, forcing
the greedy-gobbler to eat 'around' the stones - which obviously are Too Large To Swallow, for her or his safety --
or into a bowl designed to slow intake, with a center-spoke, a series of protrusions, or similar, all making
the dog pick the food from between the obtrusions & slowing their eating-speed. *Unless the dog was
diagnosed with a swallowing disorder & is directed by a vet to eat from a raised bowl - "megaesophagus" -
the bowl should be on the floor, not elevated by a frame, stool, or any other support.*

*Raised-bowls add 100% to any already-present bloat risk-factors* - so if Ur dog is a deep-chested breed,
simply by feeding her or him from a raised-bowl, U've *doubled* their risk for bloat. Any additional
risk-factors [a near-relative who has bloated; aerobic exercise within 45-mins before or 1-hour after
eating; rapid eating with lots of gulping; etc] are *similarly doubled.*

In short, if U have a deep-chested dog[1] whose sire has bloated[2], & he gobbles his food[3], AND U feed him
in a raised-bowl, he has 3 risk-factors; *using a raised-bowl raises those 3 risk-factors by 100% each, so he now
has the equivalent of SIX risk-factors, making bloat virtually inevitable, particularly as AGE also increases
risk.* He might not bloat at 6-mos or 12-mos, but by 2 or 3-YO, U'd be phenomenally lucky of he had
NOT bloated, & if he reaches 5-YO without a life-threatening bloat event, for God's sake by a lottery ticket -
U are obviously gifted with astronomical luck, since U've defied overwelming odds.  Personally, i only
gamble on sure things, & i would never, ever gamble with my dog's life, so raised bowls outside of a Rx
by my vet for a swallowing disorder are simply unacceptable.
.
.


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Have just had first hand experience of this and thank god I was aware of the condition as it saved my boxers life.
The process started 3 hours after her feed and showed in the form of restlessness and panting followed by retching without producing anything. It was another hour before her stomach went rigid and that was when I rushed her to emergency vet (11pm)
I could of easily gone to bed and got up in morning and she would of gone
I was lucky that the vet was on the ball and took her straight to surgery from x ray...........she had a twist but nothing had died so as straight forward as can be.:001_huh:
Its been 5 days and she went for check up and treated as royality as they rarely see survivours....vets & nurses impressed at how well she is doing.
Still on food little and often and anti biotics and anti acid meds.

Talking to the nurse she informed me that all dogs can develop the condition and she had seen a dachshund with bloat
I was surprised at how many owners are not aware of the condition ----even within the breeds at risk.:frown2:

It also appears that there is no fail safe way to prevent this as I thought I had most of the steps covered but it appears that different people have different views of rights and wrongs.
Being vigilant is the only guaranteed thing. 
I have educated my friends now so they are aware if this happens to their pet:thumbup1:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

wooliewoo said:


> Talking to the nurse she informed me that all dogs can develop the condition and she had seen a dachshund with bloat


I have a friend who worked at an out-of-hours vets as a Vet Nurse, who told me he had seen it in Dachshunds, Miniature Schnauzers and several other breeds you wouldn't expect.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2015)

Good article:

http://theilovedogssite.com/think-you-know-what-causes-dog-bloat-you-might-be-surprised/


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