# Nightmare birth



## ragdoll31 (May 17, 2012)

China had her kittens she had a very bad time it ended in a c section 

She is very weak but doing okay. She had 7 kittens but sadly one was dead and the other deformed so had to be put down (was also very weak and tiny) 

The other five are doing well so far but I'm having to top up feeds so I'm very tired :thumbdown:

Lace has been spayed aswell so is feeling sorry for herself so I have two very miserable ragdolls currently


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Thank goodness you took her in, fed her, and were there to see she got the c-section. Doesn't bear thinking about otherwise. Hope you get some sleep soon!


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## CatsofAvalon (Sep 22, 2011)

Sorry to hear that. Am anxiously waiting a non-pedigree litter from my pedigree oriental (paid-for catsitter let her out,  long story). It is her first litter, she is huuuge, and they will have big heads. Vet is concerned too - I will not be surprised if we also have to have a c-section.Her mum and grandma who I bred had 7 and 8 at a time.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What an awful experience for you and poor China  I hope the rest of the litter continue to thrive and you do manage to get some rest.
RIP to the two little ones that didn't make it


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## Treenie (May 28, 2012)

That is very sad news. 

However, I wonder why owners of pedigree cats are not berrated for letting their cats have litters, when (as on a previous thread) owners of moggies are? I can't believe how many forum members and moderators have double standards. ut:

If this is how this forum works, I find it quite sad as I'm sure most of us joined in order to get useful information, not to get grilled.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Ragdoll I'm sorry to hear it was such a traumatic experience. They are lucky cats to have been found and looked after so well by you. I hope its all plain sailing from now on.


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## CatsofAvalon (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi Treenie
Registered breeders working to improve the breed tend to have waiting lists for thoae breeds and so are not adding to the unwanted cat population which backyard moggie breeders are. Registered breeders spend a lot of money and time getting it right (eg researching genetics, testing for diseases, making sure you have a grand available in case of a difficult birth) on this expensive hobby - (it certainly doesn't make money). And there are many threads on this forum where people have decided to have one litter and it has all ended in tragedy - people here are sad and sick of seeing it, hence the curt responses.
My paid-for catsitter failed in her job, keeping my queen safe, but also stole from us so it is now a police matter.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Treenie said:


> That is very sad news.
> 
> However, I wonder why owners of pedigree cats are not berrated for letting their cats have litters, when (as on a previous thread) owners of moggies are? I can't believe how many forum members and moderators have double standards. ut:
> 
> If this is how this forum works, I find it quite sad as I'm sure most of us joined in order to get useful information, not to get grilled.


Treenie, which particular Pedigree breeder or set of circumstances do you think should have been berrated? I haven't seen anyone on here get a good reaction, pedigree or not when they say that they just want one litter of kittens or they don't bother to get the cat spayed and lo and behold it falls pregnant.

A proper reputable Pedigree breeder is a whole different ball game compared to a back yard breeder or Mrs XYZ who want to see if their Pedigree (inactive) would make nice kittens with their moggy boy. There is a lot of work, thought and research that goes into it and many of them are working towards eliminating genetic problems and health issues.

Also who do you think is being 'grilled' unfairly?

I am not being argumentative but I am genuinely interested in what incidents you are referring to in your post


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry to hear that. I hope Mum and the surviving babies thrive and give you much joy.

Liz


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## Treenie (May 28, 2012)

I don't doubt that reputable breeders are doing a very good job. I am new to this site and have only read a few threads, was stunned at some of the comments made on a previous one when someone asked advice on cat breeding, including one from a moderator. On reading this post, I saw that same moderator comment on the sad news of the loss of kittens (which I completely understand being an animal lover) and show support. However, it did make me wonder if the op of the previous thread had similar circumstances, if she would have been givent the same sympathetic words or told not to let her cat have a litter in the first place. 

I am all for pedigree cats but don't think that everyone can afford to spend hundreds of pounds on a pedigree. I love cats but was not able to afford a pedigree so had to buy a non-pedigree kitten. I did phone a few local cat protection centres but they either had no kittens available or those that had kittens would not give me one as they thought my house, although on a large housing scheme, was too close to a main road. 

Sorry for spamming ops thread. I hope the rest of the kittens are healthy and go on to have long and happy lives, giving families lots of pleasure.


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## CatsofAvalon (Sep 22, 2011)

Hope Lacey and China recover quickly and China can feed them all without your help tomorrow and you can get some sleep!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Treenie said:


> I don't doubt that reputable breeders are doing a very good job. I am new to this site and have only read a few threads, was stunned at some of the comments made on a previous one when someone asked advice on cat breeding, including one from a moderator. On reading this post, I saw that same moderator comment on the sad news of the loss of kittens (which I completely understand being an animal lover) and show support. However, it did make me wonder if the op of the previous thread had similar circumstances, if she would have been givent the same sympathetic words or told not to let her cat have a litter in the first place.
> 
> I am all for pedigree cats but don't think that everyone can afford to spend hundreds of pounds on a pedigree. I love cats but was not able to afford a pedigree so had to buy a non-pedigree kitten. I did phone a few local cat protection centres but they either had no kittens available or those that had kittens would not give me one as they thought my house, although on a large housing scheme, was too close to a main road.
> 
> Sorry for spamming ops thread. I hope the rest of the kittens are healthy and go on to have long and happy lives, giving families lots of pleasure.


I completely see your point, Ragdoll31 rescued her pregnant cat and another from a hideous situation with a backyard breeder. No one is berating her because she has done such a lovely thing and brought about a relatively happy end to a potentially disastrous situation. I also agree with you re trying to adopt a cat, buying a Pedigree cat was my own choice however I am aware that the CP in my area would not have let me have one anyway because we have young children, they are their own worst enemy.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

Hope China recovers & feels better from her C section very soon.Poor little girl.

Sorry to hear bout her 2 kittens that didn't make itbut hope the rest of her babies thrive & become strong lil monkeys.x


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Treenie said:


> <snip>
> I am all for pedigree cats but don't think that everyone can afford to spend hundreds of pounds on a pedigree.
> <snip>


To be quite honest, if you can't afford an average-price pedigree when you are planning and saving, how will you afford a vetinary emergency when you are not planning and saving - or even a cat developing a chronic illness?

Last year I spent a bit over £300 with my vet, who are a very cheap (though good in my view) vet when my old cat developed an overactive thyroid and then terminal liver tumours. Getting an individual cremation was another £100, and I would have no problem finding a registered pedigree Siamese or Oriental from a reputable breeder for that. My vet bills last year could easily have been far more - my cat never required an out of hours appointment, nor an expensive operation, nor expensive treatment.

However he had a number of blood tests over the year that had to be sent away for T4 and free T4, an ultrasound, and if I didn't have a company car with fuel card it would have cost more in transport as I saw them a dozen times or so with him, and it's 10 miles each way. He was also more expensive to feed for his last few months as I saw buying more expensive food as that encouraged him to eat more.

Because he was on twice-daily medication but was totally miserable if he had to stay inside, I cat-proofed my back garden. Say £50 for materials plus a lot of time, muttering and swearing. Luckily for me I had a good start as it was essentially a walled garden so much easier and cheaper than most.

BTW if you mention insurance - that is hardly cheap. I have never insured my cats (I had 5 at one time), I've been lucky, but remember that insurers are in the business to make money. I hope you are saving something each month (£15 maybe) against vet bills.

Please note - I am NOT saying everyone must have a pedigree cat, far from it. I have had cats for over 20 years and for the first time, since my cat was pts last December, there isn't a moggie in the house.

I am simply pointing out that if you have a year like I did last year it will cost you at least as much as buying a registered pedigree from a reputable breeder. Obviously some breeds are more expensive, some a lot more expensive. Some areas are a lot more expensive as well, and they are probably more expensive at the vets as well.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> <snip>
> I am aware that the CP in my area would not have let me have one anyway because we have young children, they are their own worst enemy.


I have a friend who runs a CP branch, and what they hate more than anything else is one of their cats or kittens being returned or adopted on. I know the rules seem unfair, but they have been arrived at from bitter experience.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Treenie said:


> I don't doubt that reputable breeders are doing a very good job. I am new to this site and have only read a few threads, was stunned at some of the comments made on a previous one when someone asked advice on cat breeding, including one from a moderator. On reading this post, I saw that same moderator comment on the sad news of the loss of kittens (which I completely understand being an animal lover) and show support. However, it did make me wonder if the op of the previous thread had similar circumstances, if she would have been givent the same sympathetic words or told not to let her cat have a litter in the first place.


If you would like to personally take me to task over this please feel free to do so. First and foremost I am a cat lover, secondly I breed Siamese cats and thirdly, also happen to moderate on here. Does that mean I cannot have an opinion about things? I very often bite my tongue but will try to advise anyone as best I can with as much knowledge about the facts of the post as I have. Now I happen to know that this ragdoll was taken on, already pregnant, by the OP and I am very sorry to hear the outcome of the pregnancy.


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## Treenie (May 28, 2012)

With regards to affording the upkeep and possiblity of future vet bills for my cat, I have the means to afford this. I was doing 'my bit' by trying to get a cat from a shelter rather than spending a substantial amount of money buying a pedigree (I would rather spend money on a cat, not buying one). Although I didn't manage to do that, I did get myself a beautiful little moggy who didn't cost the earth, but I am prepared to spend as much money on her in the future as I have to.

To the moderator, I don't want to take you on personally and of course you have an opinion - we all do. I simply thought your choice of words in the previous thread were incongruous...and not indicative of 'giving advice'.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Treenie said:


> With regards to affording the upkeep and possiblity of future vet bills for my cat, I have the means to afford this.
> <snip>


You also wrote:


> I love cats but was not able to afford a pedigree


My point was that vet bills can easily exceed the cost of a pedigree kitten.


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## ragdoll31 (May 17, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's kind words the other kittens seem to be doing well at the moment 

I do have to say though that this post From a member ( I'm not sure how to paste properly) 

That is very sad news. 

However, I wonder why owners of pedigree cats are not berrated for letting their cats have litters, when (as on a previous thread) owners of moggies are? I can't believe how many forum members and moderators have double standards. 

If this is how this forum works, I find it quite sad as I'm sure most of us joined in order to get useful information, not to get grilled.


- I would like to also add that pedigree breeders kittens are mostly sold on a non active register and with a contract so they are not bred from ( unless you get a devious buyer but this is very few and far between ) and generally the kitten is to be returned to breeder during any time in his / her life if they could no longer stay in there present home. or if they are sold on active the breeders are generally VERY careful to whom they sell them to I know this from experience with my Siamese.the breeders usually have a waiting list and get to know the buyers and there personal situation to ensure the welfare of the kittens.

Where as a non pedigree litter there is no contract and really no control what happens to the kittens ie homes breeding etc what so ever so it is not double standards it's a responsible way and the other way I feel is not. 

This is just my Opinion.

A moderator has expressed hers and got critized for it regardless of being a moderator and experienced breeder she is a person with an opinion and has a right to express it

We are all cat lovers with different views let's try not take take things personally as it is just a discussion


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

I hope mum and babies are doing well and China recovers well from her c section. 

I'm sorry to hear about the little ones that didn't make it  RIP kitties xx 

Also, hope Lace is back to her usual self really soon.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

So sorry to hear that two didn't make it and your girl had to have a C Section. Keep us updated when you get a minute (appreciate you must be cream crackered at the moment) and some photos of course in due course. 

I am sure we are all so glad you rescued these two cats from their BYB - dread to think what would have happened to China - I couldn't see them wanting to pay out for a C Section if needed.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Treenie said:


> I don't doubt that reputable breeders are doing a very good job. I am new to this site and have only read a few threads, was stunned at some of the comments made on a previous one when someone asked advice on cat breeding, including one from a moderator. On reading this post, I saw that same moderator comment on the sad news of the loss of kittens (which I completely understand being an animal lover) and show support. However, it did make me wonder if the op of the previous thread had similar circumstances, if she would have been givent the same sympathetic words or told not to let her cat have a litter in the first place.
> 
> I am all for pedigree cats but don't think that everyone can afford to spend hundreds of pounds on a pedigree. I love cats but was not able to afford a pedigree so had to buy a non-pedigree kitten. I did phone a few local cat protection centres but they either had no kittens available or those that had kittens would not give me one as they thought my house, although on a large housing scheme, was too close to a main road.
> 
> Sorry for spamming ops thread. I hope the rest of the kittens are healthy and go on to have long and happy lives, giving families lots of pleasure.


Treenie - you don't necessarily have to spend hundreds on a pedigree - you could look for a rehome (check out the various breed club websites - most have a section for pedigrees looking for new homes) and usually they only ask for a donation. However they would in most cases want to know that you had researched the breed and were aware of their particular traits i.e. Ragdolls are indoor cats, etc. Obviously most of these won't be "kittens" but some could just be 1 or 2 years old.

Just something else to consider if you were to have kittens and your brother and friend took one - do they work? If so, taking on one kitten and leaving it on its own for 7 or 8 hours a day isn't advisable - a) kittens need feeding several times a day and b) one kitten on its own for all that time could get depressed.

If you consider yourself a responsible person then you should consider these and the other points re health others have mentioned. Would you keep the kittens until they were 12/13 weeks, vaccinate them and if you were really really keen to do the right thing - early neuter before they go?


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

i am gathering that China was a rescue, in which case that is one very lucky little girl! Shame she had a c-section and I hope you bounces back quickly from that, fingers crossed for the surviving kittens sounds like they are in safe hands.


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## ragdoll31 (May 17, 2012)

Hello she wasn't in rescue I bought her and another ragdoll from a breeder after I saw the condition they was both living in and the state of them both 

Pleased to say all kittens have out on weight and are doing well - I shall upload some photos later today ( once I can work out how to )


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Sorry to heart about the 2 kittens, I hope China recovers quickly from her ordeal and I doubt she would have got the care she needed from the previous owner. Well done for taking her on:thumbsup:

I am glad the kittens are gaining weight and hope they go from strength to strength.

Looking forward to updates and pics.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Poor CHina - but I bet she has had better treatment with you than her previous owner would have given her. RIP little ones that didn't make it, good luck with the rest.


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

Oh no Poor babies and poor China!
Its great to hear they are all doing well now though.
I hope you can get some sleep soon and that both China and Lace recover quickly from thier operations!


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