# Neutering - how old?



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Just discovered that there seems to be no definitive age to have your dog neutered!

Having spoken with various vets on this subject, the age ranges from 7 month to a year, depending on the practice. Our particular vets do not encourage castration until a year old.

Just wondered at what age your dogs were neutered.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

i was wondering this 2. i am gettin a bitch puppy in a few weeks and dont want to breed from her at all, just wanted to know the age u can get them spayed?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Nina... my gsd isnt neuterd yet and my breeder and my trainer recommend to wait until he is 2 yrs old, so it gives him plenty of time to mature.


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## finoni9 (Sep 5, 2008)

I asked my vet when we got Rocky his second injection and she said 6 months.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

thanks finoni x


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## MelanieW34 (Sep 28, 2008)

Mums dog was neutured yesterday...he is 10mths, the vet said anything from 6mths +


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## Jacqui_UK (Oct 7, 2008)

I have a male dog and they said they would neuter him from 6 months on but would rather wait till he was a year. There are plus and negatives for both but I did not want any unplanned breeding so I got it done as soon as I could


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

yeah thats wat i was thinkin! alot of ppl i no have dogs and dont want any surprises lol! plus i just want her to be a spoilt pet  hehehe x


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Not wanting an unwanted breeding is NOt a reason to spay/neuter early, IMO. Responsible ownershiop stops that.

There are plenty of reasons _not to _neuter or spay early and they by far outweigh the reasons _to _neuter or spay early.

I believe dogs shoudl eb neutered once they are mature, which for most large breeds is around 2 years old, maybe even a bit older.


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## MelanieW34 (Sep 28, 2008)

jackson said:


> There are plenty of reasons _not to _neuter or spay early and they by far outweigh the reasons _to _neuter or spay early.
> 
> I believe dogs shoudl eb neutered once they are mature, which for most large breeds is around 2 years old, maybe even a bit older.


What are the negative points to neuturing early?


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

i have a past expiereince when i was 13 we had a doberman and she was happy playin in the garden with the back door open my mum was in the kitchen... and the next doors dog a massive gsd jumped over our 6 foot fence and started u no wat, she obv got pregnant and all this happened 2 days b4 she was bein spayed! we were responsible owners but accidents can happen. thats all i was gettin at.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

MelanieW34 said:


> What are the negative points to neuturing early?


Neutering early significantly increases the risk of bone cancer, which is already fairly common in dogs and has a poor prognosis.

Neutering also delays the closure of the growth plates, so if done early it can lead to taller more 'leggy' dogs, which cam mean increased incidence of hip problems and cruciate ligament disease, among others.

Neutering early can also have an adverse effect on behaviour. It can mean that the dog stays in a permenant puppy like state and never really matures mentally. This can obviously lead to training/behaviur problems.

Perhaps you can tell me the benefits of early neutering?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> i have a past expiereince when i was 13 we had a doberman and she was happy playin in the garden with the back door open my mum was in the kitchen... and the next doors dog a massive gsd jumped over our 6 foot fence and started u no wat, she obv got pregnant and all this happened 2 days b4 she was bein spayed! we were responsible owners but accidents can happen. thats all i was gettin at.


Why on EARTH was she being spayed during her season?


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

i cant be bothered to argue this....people have different prefernces on whether they want their dogs spayed or not they dont need ppl tellin them wats negative about it.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

jackson said:


> Why on EARTH was she being spayed during her season?


beat me to it again lol
your very speedy today


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

also my dad had his gsd neutered at 6 months hes now 3 and hes fine and healthy. its up 2 ppl what they decide.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> i cant be bothered to argue this....people have different prefernces on whether they want their dogs spayed or not they dont need ppl tellin them wats negative about it.


sorry but jackson is giving you good honest advice she is not trying to argue with you


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

i was 13 like i no what went on at the vets...


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> i cant be bothered to argue this....people have different prefernces on whether they want their dogs spayed or not they dont need ppl tellin them wats negative about it.


People need to be able to make an informed choice about what is best for their dog. That means knowing the positives _and_ negatives.

Spaying during a season is dangerous. There is a very increased risk of haemoraging, and that is why vets will not usually spay during a season, unless there is a very serious reason to do so. For that reason i wondered fi you'd made a mistake in what you were saying?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> also my dad had his gsd neutered at 6 months hes now 3 and hes fine and healthy. its up 2 ppl what they decide.


That's like saying 'my nan smoked all her life and never got lung cancer, so smoking doesn't cause lung cancer'

Not ALL dogs that are spayed or neutered early will have problems. But there is evidence to suggest a porportion will. In the case of bitches, I can see why sme people would think the increased risk of mammary cancers after a season might convince them to spay early, but in dogs, th risk of testicular cancer is low, and I cannot see any other REAL reason to neuter early.

I am not trying to be arguementative, but I own entire bitches, therefore itis my business to be extremely informed about such matters, and I was simply offering my well researched advice on the matter.

And cav, quick is my middle name.... not!


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

i am gettin a bitch and all i wanted to know was the best age to get her spayed, sorry if i offended anyone, thats all i have done on here this week!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Same with a bitch dont have her spayed until she is full mature.
Different breeds at different ages...ive only had one of mine spayed and ive got 4 bitches and 1 dog and ive had no unwanted litters


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

I have 2 entire bitches, They will both be spayed when Shila is 18 months - 2 years as she is tall and lanky so I want to make sure she matures properly.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

thanks both of you for ur replies x


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> i am gettin a bitch and all i wanted to know was the best age to get her spayed, sorry if i offended anyone, thats all i have done on here this week!


Well, depending on breed, and how mature the individual dog was, I would personally do it between her first and second or her second and third season. (IF I were going to)

You need to do your research and make your own mind up though. This might help for a start:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

You need to be very careful when she is in season. That means no unsupervised garden access and probably no walking either, or pavement walking away from other dogs. if the worst does happen, you can get a 'mismate' jab at the vet which will stop any pregnancy, up to 4 weeks after mating, I think.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

My beloved Tre Toby and Lacey were all fixed at an early age and all died of different forms of cancer by 10 yrs old so I found your post very interesting, the GSD had bone cancer so now you got me thinking? I'm glad that the idea of fixing an animal has changed as I always thought 4 to 6 months was way to young and it all makes sense really when you read that as they haven't matured thanks for the insight it actually made me feel better...Jill


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

ok thanks...when do bitches tend to have a first season and how long do they last? shes a victorian bulldog so will grow between 16-19 inches tall and weigh roughly between 55 and 65 pounds?!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> thanks both of you for ur replies x


You are welcome


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

jackson said:


> Neutering early significantly increases the risk of bone cancer, which is already fairly common in dogs and has a poor prognosis.
> 
> Neutering also delays the closure of the growth plates, so if done early it can lead to taller more 'leggy' dogs, which cam mean increased incidence of hip problems and cruciate ligament disease, among others.
> 
> ...


My vet never mentioned any of these points when we queried the correct age to neuter my cocker spaniel. I wish they had!


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

leah...what age did he tell you?


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

victorianbullylover08 said:


> leah...what age did he tell you?


Lucas was done at 6 mnths, there was no mention of any of Jackson's points. I would definitely have liked a chance to discuss them. I have to say that he is a darling boy, but he is a bit leggier than a cocker should be which may well be putting extra pressure on his hip. He has rotten hip dysplasia  He comes from a breeder who hip scores and health checks responsibly but this was the first litter from this particular mating and Lukie seems to have been very unlucky. Both parents had great scores. It's one of the reasons I do get worried when people talk about breeding with no checks. It's not a snob thing at all, it's because I've seen with my own eyes how my dog has been affected, and will be all his life, and if it happened to him even with a health/hip checked background, how many more would be affected with no checks done at all?

Anyhoo, he is a sweetheart, but he's daft as a brush even by spaniel standards 

I just feel that as we made the effort to go in and see the vet to ask about what to do for the best with neutering, we were entitled to the info so we could make up our minds taking everything into account.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

Meg was spayed at 22 months,not by choice,Tyler is entire and he will remain entire unless he has any medical condition and needs to be castrated.
If I was going to get either of them neutered by choice it would be after there two yrs old.


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## MelanieW34 (Sep 28, 2008)

jackson said:


> Neutering early significantly increases the risk of bone cancer, which is already fairly common in dogs and has a poor prognosis.
> 
> Neutering also delays the closure of the growth plates, so if done early it can lead to taller more 'leggy' dogs, which cam mean increased incidence of hip problems and cruciate ligament disease, among others.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info...it was a genuine question as I have zero experience of having to get a dog neutured. As for the benfits, I wouldnt have a clue


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

It seems as though most vets, these days, are recommending 6 months old. Had I not been a member of these sort of forums, I would not have even questioned it. Mine's only 4 months and I'm in no rush to neuter. I can't see him being off-lead for a long time now and we have a very tall fence in our garden. Perhaps a horse could jump over it but not a dog.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

canuckjill said:


> My beloved Tre Toby and Lacey were all fixed at an early age and all died of different forms of cancer by 10 yrs old so I found your post very interesting, the GSD had bone cancer so now you got me thinking? I'm glad that the idea of fixing an animal has changed as I always thought 4 to 6 months was way to young and it all makes sense really when you read that as they haven't matured thanks for the insight it actually made me feel better...Jill


So sorry to hear of your dog having bone cancer. Luika is only 7 months old, but we lost our 13 year old GSD to cancer of the spleen last year, and it does bring back a lot of heartbreak.

I did not expect this thread to throw up such an interesting debate! My vet has suggested we castrate Luika at 1 year, since he also needs an x-ray on his back legs, hopefully to determine if his cow hocks can be improved by surgery.

I find the subject of neutering extremely perplexing, since you would think that vets would be universal in their advice. We even have vets within the same practice disagreeing over what age to x-ray Luika, which hardly instills you with confidence!

I actually called the Royall veterinary college last week in the hope of finding a definitive answer to this question, and they refused point blank, suggesting that I try the RSPCA! I found their response quite bazaar. Is this a questions of vets not wanting to contradict each other. If this is the case, it is the poor dog's who will suffer


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

I was always told by a police dog trainer to have them neutered before or just as they start to cock there leg somewhere between 6 and 9 months. I am sure the guide dogs do this at the earliest possible age for an operation. I am assuming this will then set in before the hormones come raging in!!!!!!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

vizzy24 said:


> I was always told by a police dog trainer to have them neutered before or just as they start to cock there leg somewhere between 6 and 9 months. I am sure the guide dogs do this at the earliest possible age for an operation. I am assuming this will then set in before the hormones come raging in!!!!!!


Yes, I believe a lot of trainers state that a dog should be castrated when he reaches maturity. This is what we plan to do with Luika.

With his medical condition I would certainly not want him to pass on any problems, and his humping is seriously out of control now 

Also, I do not want him to suffer prostrate problems in later life.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Yes, I believe a lot of trainers state that a dog should be castrated when he reaches maturity. This is what we plan to do with Luika.
> 
> With his medical condition I would certainly not want him to pass on any problems, and his humping is seriously out of control now
> 
> Also, I do not want him to suffer prostrate problems in later life.


But a male dog is not mature at 6-9 months. 

Also, ther eis some evidence that neutering increases incidence of prostate problems.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2008)

My vet also advised to have him neutered at six months. I was planning to go ahead with this until I came on here and had an earful lol. 

I have spoken to my trainer about it and she says she reckons 10/11 months is about the right age for our labX. After reading Jacksons post I think we will try and wait longer. I really cant understand why the vet wouldnt explain the risk of bone cancer etc to me??! It seems really odd. Well I'm taking him to get microchipped tomorrow. I will ask him for a professional opinion of the pros and cons and report back!


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> My vet also advised to have him neutered at six months. I was planning to go ahead with this until I came on here and had an earful lol.
> 
> I have spoken to my trainer about it and she says she reckons 10/11 months is about the right age for our labX. After reading Jacksons post I think we will try and wait longer. I really cant understand why the vet wouldnt explain the risk of bone cancer etc to me??! It seems really odd. Well I'm taking him to get microchipped tomorrow. I will ask him for a professional opinion of the pros and cons and report back!


The vets never do tell you about the negatives though.
I hate going to the vets with a new pup and they always ask are you going to nueter.
Mine never asked though,even when we took Tyler to have his bloods done they didn't ask us about getting him castrated if the results were not clear,I had to ask them!


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

jackson said:


> But a male dog is not mature at 6-9 months.
> 
> Also, ther eis some evidence that neutering increases incidence of prostate problems.


Aren't some small breeds mature by 6 to 9 months? I could be completely wrong!


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> The vets never do tell you about the negatives though.
> I hate going to the vets with a new pup and they always ask are you going to nueter.
> Mine never asked though,even when we took Tyler to have his bloods done they didn't ask us about getting him castrated if the results were not clear,I had to ask them!


Why doesn't that suprise me? 

I like it when they ask if I am going to spay, then I can reel out my reasons not to and they shut up quite quickly.

My vet here is useless! I asked about titre testing and she said I'd be safer vaccinating as there is a lot of Parvo in Northern Ireland... Yes, it is safer to give a vaccination you can never be sure has even worked than do a blood test that confirms the dog is immune.....


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> Aren't some small breeds mature by 6 to 9 months? I could be completely wrong!


I'm not that up on small dogs, but I would say even they aren't mature until at least a year old. I think Nina has large breed anyway?


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

jackson said:


> I'm not that up on small dogs, but I would say even they aren't mature until at least a year old. I think Nina has large breed anyway?


I was just curious about small breeds.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> But a male dog is not mature at 6-9 months.
> 
> Also, ther eis some evidence that neutering increases incidence of prostate problems.


Now I am confused  It wasn't me that stated 6 months old.

Jackson, every vet I have ever used, has categorically stated that prostrate problems in older, entire dogs are common place, so forgive me for taking their advice, since they cannot all be wrong.

Our first GSD was entire, and suffered awful health problems in later life, while our castrated dogs (Zak was 13 when we lost him to cancer of the spleen), enjoyed good health and lived a good life span.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

My lad is entire.

Never had my male dogs neutered, all had a full life span none have had prostrate cancer.

If I were to consider neutering I would take the advice of my vet but as an educated guess I would think a dog would be mature enough at a year old. 

Sue


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2008)

I have previously owned male dogs and never had any of them neutered, Never had any problems with them behaviour or health wise. (and they were a boxer and a black lab renowned for their boisterousness)


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## MelanieW34 (Sep 28, 2008)

'entire'....I love it!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> I'm not that up on small dogs, but I would say even they aren't mature until at least a year old. I think Nina has large breed anyway?


Yep, I do Jackson. A 7 month old GSD who is 5 stone now!!!


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## Chris1 (Oct 3, 2008)

Daisie is a six month miniature Labradoodle and they usually have their first season about this time because small dogs mature earlier. At my vets half are in favour of early neutering and half against, so if they cant decide no wonder we are having problems.
I have decided to let her mature and spay her soon after her first season. No reason realy, exept most breeders i have spoken to tell me this is best for her development and I trust their judgement.


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## Sypher (Sep 29, 2008)

Very interesting thread. I originally planned to have my dog neutered at 6 months - this was advised by my vet.

But after reading this thread I am now seriously reconsidering.

Thanks to jackson for the link, it made good reading. If you have any more links to research I would like to have a look, similarly, if anyone has any independent studies to the contrary it would be good.

I'm thinking I should wait until he us at least two years before getting him done.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2008)

Vet was more than happy to discuss this 

He said as far as he knew there was no valid scientific study to prove that there is any increase in bone cancer in neutered males.

He also dismissed any prolonged puppy behaviour and said that in all his years of experience the only behaviour issues that he had seen associated with neutering was that of calming very sexual, aggressive dogs down. He was also keen to dismiss any damage to growth which could lead to later hip problems.

He said the benefits of early neutering by far outweigh the negatives. He said our dog would be far less likely to stray. Also the recall would probably be more effective as he would not always be on the hunt for a mate. He said territory marking/spraying in the house wouldnt become a problem.

Most importantly though, he said testicular cancer would also (obviously) be ruled out. He explained how awful a disease testicular cancer can be; how it affects many dogs and spreads to other organs very quickly. 

Another point he made was that many entire older dogs come in to practice with enlarged prostates. This makes it very painful for the dog to poo which is the first sign of the illness. They are brought in to see him and by this stage the prostate is pressing against the intestine causing other problems. The only thing to do at this stage would be castration... this being when the dog is much older, it is much more of a risky operation with the anaesthetic as well as the dog already being unwell. Whilst castration would then stop the prostate enlarging any further, it would not cause the prostate to shrink back down - meaning the dog is likely to suffer from painful excretions for the rest of it's life...

He said obviously it is our decision but to make sure we read fully about it if we are unsure from all the relevant articles/journals rather than relying on internet sources.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2008)

Interesting Louise,

Tyler is nearly 3 yrs old and has never been aggressive towards other dogs including other entire males.He has never tryed to get out and find a mate,he is very reliable with recall,he has marked in the house but only once when he first started cocking his leg (around 8 months old so was to young to be castrated anyway)and has never done it since.

There is always a risk with a GA,I know a lady on another forum who took her bitch to be spayed,young fit and healthy,she died on the table  Again rare but it happens sadly.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Interesting Louise,
> 
> Tyler is nearly 3 yrs old and has never been aggressive towards other dogs including other entire males.He has never tryed to get out and find a mate,he is very reliable with recall,he has marked in the house but only once when he first started cocking his leg (around 8 months old so was to young to be castrated anyway)and has never done it since.
> 
> There is always a risk with a GA,I know a lady on another forum who took her bitch to be spayed,young fit and healthy,she died on the table  Again rare but it happens sadly.


That's the reason I don't opt for surgery as routine. There is always an element of risk and if the dog has no health or behaviour problems I see no reason why I should have him neutered.

I do know that breeder's add a condition that their pups have to be neutered and I would adhere to this condition but I would look to them should there be problems as a result of the surgical procedure, simply because none of my dogs have had any problems without it.

Sue


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Just discovered that there seems to be no definitive age to have your dog neutered!
> 
> Having spoken with various vets on this subject, the age ranges from 7 month to a year, depending on the practice. Our particular vets do not encourage castration until a year old.
> 
> Just wondered at what age your dogs were neutered.


Depend Nina
How longs a piece of string - breed hads a lot to do with it - personally I would not have one of mine castrated until they were at leath eighteen month. as for the girlies - they say that if you spay the first season then breast cancer is reduced greatly.

Really it does depend with the malesx at what age they mature
regards
DT


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Depend Nina
> How longs a piece of string - breed hads a lot to do with it - personally I would not have one of mine castrated until they were at leath eighteen month. as for the girlies - they say that if you spay the first season then breast cancer is reduced greatly.
> 
> Really it does depend with the malesx at what age they mature
> ...


Umm. It has thrown up some really interesting posts though, and just goes to show how certain vets, give differing advice. Our second and third GSD's were I think, castrated when their were around 12 - 15 months old. With Luika's condition however, I am keen to have him castrated as soon as is safely possible for fear of him passing on his genes.

Interestingly, I heard that in the States some of their rescue centres were neutering as young as 5 months. Surely this is wrong  I thought that in some cases it takes longer than this for a males bits to drop fully


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

There's a litter of labs for sale around here 12 wks old and the males have been neutered? How stupid ...Jill


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Jackson I found that link very interesting Thank-you for directing us to it...Jill


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Interestingly, I heard that in the States some of their rescue centres were neutering as young as 5 months. Surely this is wrong  I thought that in some cases it takes longer than this for a males bits to drop fully


Yes Nina your right, they will neuter from 12 weeks in the US.Personally I think that's too young.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Yes Nina your right, they will neuter from 12 weeks in the US.Personally I think that's too young.


Jeez, I had no idea 

Like I said earlier, you would think that vets would be universal in their approach to neutering.

Our second GSD was extremely aggressive with other dogs. Goodness knows why since he adored people, and was brought up with our first GSD. The vet advised castration since he felt it would curb this aggression. Not a chance. It made absolutely no difference whatsoever.


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## jenasis2822 (Oct 4, 2008)

max was done at 13months old but generally i think its 7months onwards as there bits have to have fully grown and there generally body behaviour is mature eg cocking legs etc..
bitches have to have there first season which can range from 6months to a yr old then u have to wait a little while after again so there body is mature enough to have the operation. bitches cost more to be spayed than males.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I have no idea about bitches, but find it astounding that some vets advocate spaying at such an early age  We put our faith in the veterinary system, but I wonder if it is always wise after reading some of these threads


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

We had ted done at 12 months, we probably wouldnt of had him done but our neighbour has 3 bitches, he was trying to break the fence down to get to them so we didnt have much choice.


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## RebeccaArmstrong (May 23, 2008)

This is such a hard topic and one i have been struggling with myself. 

Oscar is entire and is 11 month old now. I have swayed betwen having him done and not having him done for a variety of all the reasons stated on this thread. Also i dont plan to breed from him so although i totally agree it is down to responsible ownership it just removes that risk completely!

However now we have a bitch who is 5 months - they live together, share our bedroom etc and i cannot see how i can seperate them for 5 weeks so this is making this decision more obvious. Bella is a DDB and i will spay her as well however want to let her get over a year as well 

I am thinking of getting OScar done early December becuase i am off work so can take care of him and he will be 15 months then.

Does anyone have expeirence of DDB - when do they come into season for the first time on average ...


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

RebeccaArmstrong said:


> I am thinking of getting OScar done early December because i am off work so can take care of him and he will be 15 months then.QUOTE]
> 
> You will be amazed just how quickly dogs will recover from being castrated. However, it's always advisable to supervise any dog that has undergone an anesthetic.
> 
> We are looking to book Luika in just after his first birthday if all is well.


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## MelanieW34 (Sep 28, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> We are looking to book Luika in just after his first birthday if all is well.


Awww....Happy Birthday Luika


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

MelanieW34 said:


> Awww....Happy Birthday Luika


Well, his first birthday is in March 09, and my husband reckons its not such a nice birthday present 

Funny how men seem dead against castration


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2008)

We went to a new dog trainer yesterday. Things went really well then at the end he was just rubbing Zachs belly, lifted up his leg and said "hm, castrated, good" I was like err well actually he hasnt been... hes just not a very big boy... poor zach must of been like  excuse me i am entire mate...


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Most vets push you into neutering when they are too young. Bitches should have at least one season then be done 2/3 months after. Males are best left until they are mature some males don't need to be castrated at all.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

louise5031 said:


> We went to a new dog trainer yesterday. Things went really well then at the end he was just rubbing Zachs belly, lifted up his leg and said "hm, castrated, good" I was like err well actually he hasnt been... hes just not a very big boy... poor zach must of been like  excuse me i am entire mate...


Ah bless. Luika's got two large clangers already  As I said on another thread, he is actually humping for England now and its sooo embarrassing especially when I am the phone to a client and catch Luika humping the cushion across the front room


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Ah bless. Luika's got two large clangers already  As I said on another thread, he is actually humping for England now and its sooo embarrassing especially when I am the phone to a client and catch Luika humping the cushion across the front room


Just in case your vet hasn't told you, humping is as much a learnt behaviour as it is anything else. neutering is not guaranteed to calm it down or stop it. Neutering before the dog is fully mature can make it worse. My friend has a Dal that humps anything and everything in sight an dhe was neutered at a year old, on her vets advice.

Obviously it's entirely up to you when to get him neutered, I was merely pointing this out incase you weren't aware.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> Just in case your vet hasn't told you, humping is as much a learnt behaviour as it is anything else. neutering is not guaranteed to calm it down or stop it. Neutering before the dog is fully mature can make it worse. My friend has a Dal that humps anything and everything in sight an dhe was neutered at a year old, on her vets advice.


Appreciate that Jackson, but we have been extremely lucky with our previous castrated dogs, in that it has actually stopped the excessive humping. As you obviously know, it does take a while for the hormones to leave the system, so we are not looking for quick fix.

My main reasons for having Luika castrated is to prevent unwanted puppies and not wanting to pass on his health problem. I also believe that there are too many unwanted dogs in this country with adding to them 

I would also not wish Luika to go through the further health problems that my first GSD underwent, being left entire. He underwent extensive surgery for prostrate problems, which my castrated males did not.

According to veterinary advice, castration almost entirely eliminates the chances of getting testicular cancer, but is not necessarily the answer to behavioural problems, which some people feel it does.

Of course I appreciate that castration and neutering is obviously down to the owners, but having posted this topic, it has thrown up some very interesting threads.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I never really get the reasoning to neuter to prevent unwanted litters. Surely this is very easily preventable by correct management and training?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> I never really get the reasoning to neuter to prevent unwanted litters. Surely this is very easily preventable by correct management and training?


I think a lot of people may disagree with you there, unless your a breeder! Vets, rescue centres, and even some breeders advocate neutering for the reasons a lot of people have outlined. Surely they cannot all be wrong  Still, it is always a matter of preference.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> I think a lot of people may disagree with you there, unless your a breeder! Vets, rescue centres, and even some breeders advocate neutering for the reasons a lot of people have outlined. Surely they cannot all be wrong  Still, it is always a matter of preference.


I understand that, but I still fail to see how a properly managed, properly trained dog can cause an unwanted pregnancy. I believe vets and rescue base their views on the fact that a lot of dogs are irresponsibly owned, and irresponsible owners are less likely to spay/neuter anyway.

Maybe you could explain how you envisage a situation where your responsibly owned dog could impregnate a bitch? (not trying to be diffcult, but genuinely interested)


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> Maybe you could explain how you envisage a situation where your responsibly owned dog could impregnate a bitch? (not trying to be diffcult, but genuinely interested)


In an ideal world Jackson I would totally agree with you, however you only have to look at the rescue centres and the amount of dogs and cats who are euthanised each year, since they fail to find loving families.

Working with rescue centres (both cats and dogs), it is the same old story. Far too many people fail to neuter. Dogs are then allowed off lead and a bitch in season is a magnate.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Just thought I'd bring this up,
I know of some rescues who insist on owners neutering there own dogs before they will be allowed to adopt a dog from there rescue.
The dogs been rehomed from rescue are already neutered so why do they think they can dictate what owners should and shouldn't do with dogs they have paid for from a Breeder.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> In an ideal world Jackson I would totally agree with you, however you only have to look at the rescue centres and the amount of dogs and cats who are euthanised each year, since they fail to find loving families.
> 
> Working with rescue centres (both cats and dogs), it is the same old story. Far too many people fail to neuter. Dogs are then allowed off lead and a bitch in season is a magnate.


But you're talking about your own dog being neutered to preent unwanted puppies. Surely as you're a responsible owner, that isn't a possibility? I know plenty of dogs trained to recall from an in season bitch, so even if irresponsible owners take their in season bitches near other dogs, it isn't a problem.

There were more than 23,000 dogs put to sleep last year. I agree with you that the situation needs to be sorted out. fast. However, I have 3 entire bitches, and whilst I do breed (rarely) and therefore it would be naive of me to think I could never contribute to the rescue situation ( I do make people agree to bring pups back to me if they can't keep them, but obviously I cannto control what they do once thy have the pup) I do not think the fact that my bitches are entire alone is a problem. I am fully able to prevent them having unwanted litters, despite my friends having entire dogs.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Just thought I'd bring this up,
> I know of some rescues who insist on owners neutering there own dogs before they will be allowed to adopt a dog from there rescue.
> The dogs been rehomed from rescue are already neutered so why do they think they can dictate what owners should and shouldn't do with dogs they have paid for from a Breeder.


That is outrageous, and to be honest, I do think if rescues had less ridiculous/strict policies and took each case on their own merit, that would go some way to reduce the number of dogs put to sleep each year.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

jackson said:


> That is outrageous, and to be honest, I do think if rescues had less ridiculous/strict policies and took each case on their own merit, that would go some way to reduce the number of dogs put to sleep each year.


Yeah I agree, rescue centres are far too strict imo. I know its essential the owners are properly vetted before providing a home, but in some cases they turn people away for petty reasons and as highlighted by sallyanne, turn people off by their rules & demands


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Of course there are good and bad in all walks of life, and it would be foolhardy to say that all rescue centres have good policies. However, I think we do need to be careful here, since the rescue centres that I work with are wonderful and I believe that the majority are.

People often give their time freely to walk and clean out the runs, and of course fund raise and without the support of the general public there would be no rescue centres.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Of course there are good and bad in all walks of life, and it would be foolhardy to say that all rescue centres have good policies. However, I think we do need to be careful here, since the rescue centres that I work with are wonderful and I believe that the majority are.
> 
> People often give their time freely to walk and clean out the runs, and of course fund raise and without the support of the general public there would be no rescue centres.


I don't think anyone was saying that all (or any) rescue centres are rubbish. Merely that some of their policies are.

For example (in respone to what Salyanne posted) I woudl be prepared to take a rescue Golden in the future (once my youngest son is much older) and would be prepared for it to be spaye dor to have it spayed myself. But I would obviously not be prepared to spay my current girls in order to take on a rescue dog. Therefore a rescue, potentially one that might be diffciult to rehome, as I am an experienced owner, would miss out on an excellent home with other dogs. Seems a ridiculous shame.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

jackson said:


> I don't think anyone was saying that all (or any) rescue centres are rubbish. Merely that some of their policies are.
> 
> For example (in respone to what Salyanne posted) I woudl be prepared to take a rescue Golden in the future (once my youngest son is much older) and would be prepared for it to be spaye dor to have it spayed myself. But I would obviously not be prepared to spay my current girls in order to take on a rescue dog. Therefore a rescue, potentially one that might be diffciult to rehome, as I am an experienced owner, would miss out on an excellent home with other dogs. Seems a ridiculous shame.


I searched high and low for a Golden in rescue (not because I am tight but because I wanted to rescue one if um know what I mean) and there wasn;t any.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

jackson said:


> For example (in respone to what Salyanne posted) I woudl be prepared to take a rescue Golden in the future (once my youngest son is much older) and would be prepared for it to be spaye dor to have it spayed myself. But I would obviously not be prepared to spay my current girls in order to take on a rescue dog. Therefore a rescue, potentially one that might be diffciult to rehome, as I am an experienced owner, would miss out on an excellent home with other dogs. Seems a ridiculous shame.


I completely agree.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> I searched high and low for a Golden in rescue (not because I am tight but because I wanted to rescue one if um know what I mean) and there wasn;t any.


If you go to breed rescue, there are quite a few, sadly.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

mrsdusty said:


> I searched high and low for a Golden in rescue (not because I am tight but because I wanted to rescue one if um know what I mean) and there wasn;t any.


Have you tried getting in touch with guide dogs for the blind? They have failed guide dogs looking for a home. Admittedly there will almost certainly be a waiting list, but worth it don't you think


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Have you tried getting in touch with guide dogs for the blind? They have failed guide dogs looking for a home. Admittedly there will almost certainly be a waiting list, but worth it don't you think


Good idea but I have Lily now.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Agha. Would she like a boy friend?


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Agha. Would she like a boy friend?


She is far toooo young for a boyfriend LOL

If we get another dog it won't be for a while (gotta get Lily A1 first) and it might be a different breed.


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## Darren (Sep 17, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> We went to a new dog trainer yesterday. Things went really well then at the end he was just rubbing Zachs belly, lifted up his leg and said "hm, castrated, good" I was like err well actually he hasnt been... hes just not a very big boy... poor zach must of been like  excuse me i am entire mate...


lol classic.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

It's a bloody minefield isn't it?

I've read all the for/against stuff and I'm still none the wiser TBH.

My girl has just had her first season - I knew I wanted her to have one but I'll get her done before her next one I think. It's a pain keeping her in and also, hopefully by the time her next one is due we'll be competing (everything crossed!) and I don't want to miss too many shows.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Like I said earlier, this type of advice should be universal


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## lorit84 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi there,

We have always had male dogs (until now that is) and each one has been neutered at 6 months except one, who was a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who we used as a stud once and then got him neutered when he was around 15 months. 

I now have a wee female pup who is 5 months and vet has says she can get neutered at 6months too.

Hope this helps!!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2008)

lorit84 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> We have always had male dogs (until now that is) and each one has been neutered at 6 months except one, who was a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who we used as a stud once and then got him neutered when he was around 15 months.
> 
> ...


Hi, can you go into any further detail about the pups that were castrated at 6 months... did it change them, are they still puppy-like at the age they are now, have they grown to the normal breed size, do they have any hip problems?? were there any problems with the operation?

Cheers! Sorry for being nosey lol!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

louise5031 said:


> Hi, can you go into any further detail about the pups that were castrated at 6 months... did it change them, are they still puppy-like at the age they are now, have they grown to the normal breed size, do they have any hip problems?? were there any problems with the operation?
> 
> Cheers! Sorry for being nosey lol!


Good question Louise. It does seem rather young to neuter doesn't it


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2008)

It does, but my vet really seemed to make sense when he was urging me to get Zach done and that time is approaching... dunno what to do


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

louise5031 said:


> It does, but my vet really seemed to make sense when he was urging me to get Zach done and that time is approaching... dunno what to do


I wonder what advise we would be given by the Royal College of Veterinary surgery 
They would probably suggest we contact our own vets lol


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## lorit84 (Sep 8, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> Hi, can you go into any further detail about the pups that were castrated at 6 months... did it change them, are they still puppy-like at the age they are now, have they grown to the normal breed size, do they have any hip problems?? were there any problems with the operation?
> 
> Cheers! Sorry for being nosey lol!


Hi again,

My dogs have always been great after they haev been neutered, the one dog I didnt get neutered at six months was a bit of a nightmare to be honest! He would constantly hump everyone in the family and visitors and was very boistrous. I now try and get them neutered around six months before their adult hormones kick in.

At the moment I have a 3 yr old Jackadoodle. He was neutered at six months and is a great wee dog. He is very affectionate and loves just being around the family. He is about the size of a JRT so I dont think it has done anyting to his growth nor to my other dogs. None of my dogs have ever had any problems with their hips but this may be becuase I have only owned wee dogs.

There has never been any problems with the operations either. The only time was in 1997, I had a JRTxCollie pup who unfortuantely took a reaction to the general anaesthetic and passed away on the table, but this was just unfortunate and has not stopped me from getting my dogs neutered.

I also have a 5month of Cockapoo. This is my first female pup and after speaking to my vet and dog trainer, I will also be getting her neuter next month when she is six months.

I hope this helps.


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## staflove (Sep 4, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Just discovered that there seems to be no definitive age to have your dog neutered!
> 
> Having spoken with various vets on this subject, the age ranges from 7 month to a year, depending on the practice. Our particular vets do not encourage castration until a year old.
> 
> Just wondered at what age your dogs were neutered.


My vets told me 6 months after her first season but then i left it till she was nearly 12 months then i got her done as i had reall bad walks my rotti was trying to hump her while walking down the street it was a nightmare but all done and shes fine.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2008)

Cool, well thanks for your advice everyone. We have decided to get Zach neutered at around 7 months. I'm sure I will get a lot of stick for this, but hopefully you will appreciate that he is my dog and I obviously care a tremendous amount for him so am trying to do what I see is best. After the lengthy conversation with the vet (see pg.6) I am assured that this is the best way to go.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

louise5031 said:


> Cool, well thanks for your advice everyone. We have decided to get Zach neutered at around 7 months. I'm sure I will get a lot of stick for this, but hopefully you will appreciate that he is my dog and I obviously care a tremendous amount for him so am trying to do what I see is best. After the lengthy conversation with the vet (see pg.6) I am assured that this is the best way to go.


Absolutely correct Louise :smile5: All we can do is research, and make our decision. Best of luck, and please let me know how Zach gets on.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2008)

Of course it's your choice and you know what's best for him.

Good luck with the op,keep us updated won't you


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2008)

good luck lou x


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## SillyDilly (Oct 27, 2008)

Re: Prostate problems. I lost my Border Collie X to prostate cancer 11 months ago. I did a LOT of research on the subject.

He was an RSPCA pup, so had to be neutered at 6 months (a stipulation of the adoption of pups too young to be done in the kennel before rehoming).

All of the information I could lay my hands on stated that benign prostate disease occured almost exclusively in entire dogs. The jury was out on cancer, with some stating that it was less likely in a neutered dog, others saying that it was no protection from cancer. Given my own experience, I tend to believe the latter.

Prostate cancer in dogs is rare, but seems to be almost always fatal (Guinness seems to have been a miracle surviving 14 months from first symptoms, as I found no research that gave a prognosis of more than 6 months, some estimated around 6 weeks). My vet (who isn't a young man!) had only seen it once before, where the dog had been through chemo and not survived.

I would not base a decision to neuter on the issue of prostate cancer, though my reading on other prostate disease leads me to lean towards opting to neuter my new dog (13 months now). I haven't made any plans yet, though he is still only occasionally practising with cocking his leg, which sounds a bit late from what others have said here.

My current vet seems to base her advice more on behaviour than physical issues. She feels Dylan is a very confident dog, so we could safely neuter him without fear of exascerbating any anxiety problems


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## Chance (Jul 8, 2008)

Chance was done last Friday - she is just about 6 months (rescue so not entirely sure) and our decision was based on advice from the vet and other peoples opinion (here included!).

After a long chat with Chance she agreed she didn't want pups and so the op was the best option.

Just got back from the vets for her 'day 3 check up' and he is very pleased with her recovery. she hasn't even needed a bumper collar as she has shown no interest in her stiches and other than being a little sleepy on Friday night she is now back to normal. 

Sadly she can only have short walks and not anywhere muddy - this is a bigger problem than the Operation itself!


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## LittleMissSunshine (Aug 31, 2008)

I've booked Poppy in to be 'done' on 6th November, This is 2 months after her first season which my vet said is tha absolutely ideal time to do it though he would have been happy to do it at a later stage, he said it's preferable to do it when we are.
This will be the first time I've ever had to leave her with the vet for any period and feel sick eveytime I think about, I know it's for best but don't like to think of her in pain!!! how soppy am I???


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2008)

hannahbanana129 said:


> I've booked Poppy in to be 'done' on 6th November, This is 2 months after her first season which my vet said is tha absolutely ideal time to do it though he would have been happy to do it at a later stage, he said it's preferable to do it when we are.
> This will be the first time I've ever had to leave her with the vet for any period and feel sick eveytime I think about, I know it's for best but don't like to think of her in pain!!! how soppy am I???


I know exactly what you mean, I'm dreading leaving him there poor baby


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Good luck Louise and Zach and wishing a speedy recovery to all the boys and girls having their ops.


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## Terrier Fan (Oct 20, 2008)

My vets advise neutering at 6 months. 
Sophie was spayed when she was 2 years old due to phantom pregnancies. Tilly was booked in to be spayed when she was 6 months old but came into season 2 days before her op. She also had a phantom pregnancy, we were advised to wait until she was 9 months, so that the uterus had chance to settle.
Louie will be castrated when he is 6 months.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2008)

Personally I would not have mine done under a year - with my breed I prefer to wait until they are fully mature - between 15-18 month - but that's jsut my opinion.
I have been sickened recently seeing a certain place castrate dogs as yound a 4/5 month.
regards
sue


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Terrier Fan said:


> My vets advise neutering at 6 months.
> Sophie was spayed when she was 2 years old due to phantom pregnancies. Tilly was booked in to be spayed when she was 6 months old but came into season 2 days before her op. She also had a phantom pregnancy, we were advised to wait until she was 9 months, so that the uterus had chance to settle.
> Louie will be castrated when he is 6 months.


Phantom pregnancies are a perfectly normal thing for a dog. As long as they are managed properly, they cause no or little distress.

There is some evidence that phantoms increase the risk of pyometra, but also some that suggests it doesn't.

It is odd that most breeders advocate keeping males entire and with all their combined years of experience have never had any problems.

Don't forget, vets usually only see sick dogs.


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## Terrier Fan (Oct 20, 2008)

I decided to have Sophie spayed as she was having a phantom pregnancy with every season. Each time she had one she developed milk and had to have medication as she started developing cystitis, she was also very depressed.
So after her 4th one we decided it was in her best interests to be spayed.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I would love to know what vets are actually taught at college about the age recommended for neutering!


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