# My cat keeps growling at her kitten.



## eveolene (Oct 20, 2010)

Now, I know what you're going to say, and I agree that there is a very obvious cause to this problem, but it has developed into a different issue entirely, so hear me out.

Basically, I took in the cat my neighbours abandoned, named her Hecate, realised she was pregnant, the vet said it was too risky to spay (and abort), and a few weeks later she had 5 lovely kittens. She's been spayed now, and four of the five kittens are gone. The one I kept, Nyx, is coming up to 5 months now. Up until about 2 weeks ago, Hecate would mostly ignore Nyx, but they'd play fight all night (usually knocking over everything in their way and keeping me awake, bless their little thundering paws). I believe the growling, hissing and cuffing Nyx started as a "You're too old to be here, go away" thing, but it seems to have developed into attention-seeking behaviour. They still play, and usually, Hecate won't growl at her. But when she wants to go outside, she'll growl at Nyx, pounce her and hiss at her. Or, if Nyx is on my lap, she'll just challenge her by staring and growling. I know it's nothing to do with Nyx anymore, because every time she does it, she waits for me to interfere, then runs straight to the door and growls at it instead. She used to just claw the sofa to be let out, and honestly, I wish she'd go back to doing that. The problem is that she does it even when it's pouring down with rain and I know she doesn't actually want to go outside. It's simply become a bad habit.

So far, I've thought up ways to break my cats' bad habits. For example, Nyx used to jump into her food bowl before I'd put it on the floor, so I started making her wait for her food, just holding the bowl out of her reach until she calmed down. Hecate started stealing Nyx's food, so I started shuffling her out of the room and waiting for her to sit down by her own bowl before putting Nyx's food down. Daily repetition seems to be a good way of fixing bad habits in cats (since that's how they got the bad habits in the first place). In this case, I can't really think of a solution. If I ignore Hecate, she just continues, and if I ignore it even then, she'll come up to my chair, reach up and gently scratch my arm. I've tried seperating them, and Hecate just falls asleep on my bed, but the moment the living room door is open again, she goes straight back to trying to get my attention so she can go outside. If I seperate them the other way (Hecate in the living room, Nyx outside), Nyx screams at the door to be let in, and Hecate just paces around the room growling. There's nothing really aggressive in her growling. I can quite easily pick her up while she's in the process and she'll growl and hiss, but she's actually a very gentle cat, and it really is all talk.

I should clarify that I have no problem with Hecate being outside, and I let her out for the majority of the day (unless it's raining or gets really cold). However, I bring her in at night simply because I don't want her to get stuck out in bad weather, with all of us asleep and unable to hear her crying to be let in, particularly since this winter is expected to be as bad as last year, and I'm bundled up under four layers but still shivering right now. I don't go to bed until she comes home, and have started feeding her later so I don't have to spend hours standing outside calling her. The problem is that the moment she's finished eating, she'll start this behaviour and want to go back out again. I have to bring her in around 10pm so I'm awake to ensure Nyx doesn't steal her food, and I'd rather not shut them in seperate rooms with the weather turning so cold (my bedroom is the warmest room in the house, and when they do finally sleep, they tend to sleep in there). And, of course, a cat flap isn't an option, because Nyx is too young to be outside (there are far too many massive cats in our neighbourhood, she isn't spayed yet and I'm unwilling to let her out until I'm more certain Hecate won't chase her away). I'm also in a rented house and both my patio door and front door are made of glass.

Really, I'm just looking for a method of cutting off this behaviour, something I can make a daily routine until she learns that it isn't an effective way of getting my attention. If it were just a "Grow up and move on" thing, I would leave them to it, but honestly, Nyx is far more interested in what us humans are doing than her mother. Nyx's only interest in Hecate seems to be when they play, when Hecate comes in covered in weird and wonderful smells and when Hecate has something Nyx doesn't (i.e. food, fuss or anything that looks a bit like a toy). If Hecate's inside all day, Nyx will pretty much ignore her.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Sorry cant really help,didnt want to read and run.The only thing I can pick up from your thread is that Nyx is probably becoming mature in as much as she will be coming into season shortly.This may be causing upset to Hecate and she is becoming stressed by it.It may help to get Nyx neutered .


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

are they both neutered? esp if you are letting them both outside. girls fight worse than boys so being un-spayed....plus they will get pregnant again if you let them out, not good!


just because they are mum & daughter doesnt mean they will get on, my girl doesnt like her daughter who is now 8 months old, after seperating them for 2 months i tihnk they have forgotten that they are mum and daughter and are now civalised to eachother and played the other day. other than that they dont want to know (mum more than daughter)


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## eveolene (Oct 20, 2010)

If you'd read the post, I did say that Hecate is spayed but Nyx isn't (she's due to be spayed on the 11th November). Nyx doesn't go outside. I don't think a kitten of 5 months is big enough or old enough to go out, and one of the reasons people lose their kittens is that they let them outside too early. Nyx will be inside until Spring (no point letting her outside in this weather), but given her excessive need for attention, she's likely to be more of an indoor cat anyway.

Not to be rude, but can you guys read the full post before replying? I've explained what's going on there. I know that cats are cats. I don't have any delusions that they're just small, fluffy humans, who wuv their ickle kitten-poos and shower them with kissies. They're cats. I know that it's a mother's instinct to drive her kittens away, but, as I explained, that's not really what this is about anymore. There's no doubt that it started that way, but it's developed into an attention-seeking habit.

Your help is appreciated, but I would appreciate it more if you read the post.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

i did actually read all the post but didnt get what you were asking!
the girl can be spayed now no need or reason to wait, mught calm her down with the attention seeking


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

eveolene said:


> If you'd read the post, I did say that Hecate is spayed but Nyx isn't (she's due to be spayed on the 11th November). Nyx doesn't go outside. I don't think a kitten of 5 months is big enough or old enough to go out, and one of the reasons people lose their kittens is that they let them outside too early. Nyx will be inside until Spring (no point letting her outside in this weather), but given her excessive need for attention, she's likely to be more of an indoor cat anyway.
> 
> Not to be rude, but can you guys read the full post before replying? I've explained what's going on there. I know that cats are cats. I don't have any delusions that they're just small, fluffy humans, who wuv their ickle kitten-poos and shower them with kissies. They're cats. I know that it's a mother's instinct to drive her kittens away, but, as I explained, that's not really what this is about anymore. There's no doubt that it started that way, but it's developed into an attention-seeking habit.
> 
> Your help is appreciated, but I would appreciate it more if you read the post.


At what point did I appear to have not read your thread.I pointed out that the fact that nyx is not yet neutered may be a factor in your problem.


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## eveolene (Oct 20, 2010)

I had her booked to be spayed on the 29th, but the vet wasn't comfortable with her size last time I took her in and wanted her to grow a bit more, so he changed it to the 11th. I can't force him to spay her, and I trust his judgement on this, since he's the one who has to cut her open.

Anyway, what I'm looking for is a habit-breaker. I'll give some examples. Your cat keeps pissing on the floor, so you repeatedly move them to the tray (or move the tray to where they pissed). Repeated action eventually gets the message across, and they use the litter tray. Your cat steals food from the kitchen, so you decide to keep them out of the kitchen. Every time the door is open and they move to go in, you block them off and step towards them, backing them away from the room until they sit down outside it. Repeat it daily, and they will, out of habit, stay out of the kitchen. The idea is to build a new habit to break an old one. It's the only way I've ever found to break bad habits in cats. The problem with this habit is that I can't think of a way to break it, or a routine to replace it with. Does that make sense?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

eveolene said:


> Not to be rude, but can you guys read the full post before replying? I've explained what's going on there. I know that cats are cats. I don't have any delusions that they're just small, fluffy humans, who wuv their ickle kitten-poos and shower them with kissies. They're cats. I know that it's a mother's instinct to drive her kittens away, but, as I explained, that's not really what this is about anymore. There's no doubt that it started that way, but it's developed into an attention-seeking habit.
> 
> Your help is appreciated, but I would appreciate it more if you read the post.


Not to be rude.... but

you remind me of a charity for the homeless who were collecting 2nd hand furniture, and when I phoned them to ask if they wanted my 2 year old sofas and dining table & chairs, they asked me to send pics. Which I did. Then then asked for bigger pics with higher resolution, and if I could specifiy what brands they were !!

To put it another way ... the people who are answering your questions are doing so out of their own goodwill. They don't _have_ to reply.

Do you really think chastising people is the right way to go about getting help? It doesn't help matters. In the same way me pointing out your original post is far from clear doesn't help matters either.

I could possibly help... but 
a) your attitude annoys me, and
b) your mind is already made up that this is an attention seeking problem

If you want help and you want to dictate the terms that help should come with, you can always pay for a feline-behaviourist.


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## eveolene (Oct 20, 2010)

I apologise for expecting relevant, informed and constructive responses here.


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that when you said,


eveolene said:


> Any help would be appreciated.


you meant,


eveolene said:


> Any help would be appreciated.


You got relevant, informed and constructive posts, from people who have had experience with cats (amongst "you guys" that answered your post was a breeder and someone who has had decades of dealing with neglected cats in animal shelters in various countries, many _with _behaviour problems not dissimilar to yours). They were trying to help you out by sharing their ideas and experiences.

Just because you attribute the behaviour to attention-seeking doesn't negate the fact that it may have another cause. Also, your attitude put off the very people you were seeking help from.

How does that help Hecate and Nyx?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

eveolene said:


> I apologise for expecting relevant, informed and constructive responses here.


Like I said earlier

If you want help and you want to dictate the terms that help should come with, you can always pay for a feline-behaviourist.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

blimey! theres me thinking after 15years of owning cats, researching, fostering and helping new owners with problems (and people I dont know with problems) that I _MIGHT_ actually know soemthing about cats! Obviously I know nothing!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> blimey! theres me thinking after 15years of owning cats, researching, fostering and helping new owners with problems (and people I dont know with problems) that I _MIGHT_ actually know soemthing about cats! Obviously I know nothing!


Well for a start sweetie you & Buffie cant read. So after youve mastered that art we can all learn together to be constructive, informed and concise. And heyyyyy maybe if we stick some brooms up our ar$es we can sweep the forum floor as we go along! :thumbsup:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Tje said:


> Well for a start sweetie you & Buffie cant read. So after youve mastered that art we can all learn together to be constructive, informed and concise. And heyyyyy maybe if we stick some brooms up our ar$es we can sweep the forum floor as we go along! :thumbsup:


haha!

and i was voted best reader in my school i won a prize! :thumbup:


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

ok relevant constructive advice - and some questions

1 - nyx is exactly 5mo? or nearer 6?
2 - how much does nyx weigh?

If she is above 1kg then she can be speyed. This I am sure will solve 99% of the problem. However it will take a few weeks for the hormones to be removed from the body.

In the meantime you could consider a period of separation and then re-introduction. Just as you would bringing a new cat into the house. However it seems pointless to me to do so when a spey would achieve these things anyway.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

should have added that feeding them in seperate rooms will also solve the food issues for now.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

BBM.... the OP wants us to read before we post.... she has already stated she trusts her vet's judgment that the cat is too small to be neutered. Geeeez.... I bet you never got the best reading medal that TaylorBaby got.   



eveolene said:


> I had her booked to be spayed on the 29th, but the vet wasn't comfortable with her size last time I took her in and wanted her to grow a bit more, so he changed it to the 11th. I can't force him to spay her, and I* trust his judgement on this*, since he's the one who has to cut her open.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Tje said:


> BBM.... the OP wants us to read before we post.... she has already stated she trusts her vet's judgment that the cat is too small to be neutered. Geeeez.... I bet you never got the best reading medal that TaylorBaby got.


omg no obviously i missed reading the entire post and just thought i would sling any old advice in for the hell of it!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> omg no obviously i missed reading the entire post and just thought i would sling any old advice in for the hell of it!


go stand in the corner with the dunces hat on, and don't come out before 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.... sheesh, the OP is looking for (sorry, expecting) relevant, informed and constructive responses from us.


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

Okay, I'm here.

So where are the relevant, informed and constructive responses?  :lol:


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## eveolene (Oct 20, 2010)

*sigh* I'm not getting drawn into your baiting. At the end of the day, all I want is a habit-breaker. I've already explained why I know it's a bad habit (recap: Hecate doesn't _ever_ do it unless she wants to go outside). If anyone feels like offering a suggestion on how to break it that doesn't involve something I'm already planning on doing (or have already said I do), then feel free to let me know. Thanks.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Nope, I for one feel no urge to help on this one for the reasons I already stated

a) your attitude leaves a lot to be desired. Do I really want to be told I can't read properly and am not relevant, constructive and informed enough? .... ehhhh, no. I am not a paid service, so I am not really that open for "customer feedback" - I have a day job and annual appraisals for that, lol. and

b) I have learned here on the forum that when people have already got their minds made up that *this* is the problem, they are not open enough to other possibilities which would allow me to help them, which is very furstrating. 

Best of luck though in rectifying your cats problems. You have diagnosed the problem though, so you should be half way to rectifying it too. All the best.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2010)

I just read the OP and I 'm just confused and can't work out who or what is doing what


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> I just read the OP and I 'm just confused and can't work out who or what is doing what


roflol .... can we all sit back now and sing that Alanis Moriset song "Isn't it ironic".

I too laughed very hard at that irony GH. The OP tells Buffie and TaylorBaby that they can't read... but sorry, her way of getting her message across in the written form is.... well.... far from perfect. In fact, very poor.

I don't normally knock people who have trouble expressing themselves on the forum, infact I hate it when people pick on someone for that reason ( I think we all know how tough it can be to explain something complex in the written from) ... but the ironly of someone who can't express themselves very well, criticizing others for not being able to read, or construct realtive, informed and constructive replies.... oh I was in stitches!

all together now....

_It's a black fly in your Chardonnayyyyyy 
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late 
Isn't it ironic ... don't you thinkkkkkkk _


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Tje said:


> roflol .... can we all sit back now and sing that Alanis Moriset song "Isn't it ironic".
> 
> I too laughed very hard at that irony GH. The OP tells Buffie and TaylorBaby that they can't read... but sorry, her way of getting her message across in the written form is.... well.... far from perfect. In fact, very poor.
> 
> ...


But hey it doesnt matter the OP knows what the problem is ,she/he has told us so ,and has also told us what form our replies should takeso the rest should be easy,or am I not understanding, or perhaps not reading, correctly.:lol:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

buffie said:


> But hey it doesnt matter the OP knows what the problem is ,she/he has told us so ,and has also told us what form our replies should takeso the rest should be easy,or am I not understanding, or perhaps not reading, correctly.:lol:


Nope, that's pretty much the way I read it Buffie. The diagnosis is made. It's just the treatment plan she now needs. But that has to be a constructive, relevant and informed treatment plan .... so hence why I ain't up for this particular job. If I was I'd be charging 80 per hour 

friendly help I give for free (we all do)

you want to set terms and conditions, fine... I'll invoice you


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