# 6 month puppy snapping agressively



## hermee (Dec 28, 2011)

Dear All,

This is my first post although I have been lurking for a while and got some good advice. Sorry for the length but I thought would give all the info at one go.

I've got a problem with Hermann aggressively snapping at me and others.

Hermee is a 6 month old male Glen of Imaal terrier. I've had him since he was 8 weeks. He is my first dog. He has got a lovely temperament (most of the time!!), is v v friendly and cuddly, learns quick, is well socialized with dogs (been to the doggy spa 2 weekends and many days at dog park) and plays well with young children (thankfully he has not demonstrated his snapping issue with children yet).

He was a real mouther, puppy nipper/biter (drew blood often in the early days) and I went through the whole gamut of suggestions (yelp (did not work), turn around & ignore (did not work), different room (not work) and distraction i.e. told him to sit or drop or gave him a treat, this worked best) before we got that more or less under control. I say more or less because it seemed okish, he learned bite inhibition but still liked to mouth a bit which was probably my fault as sometimes I let him mouth my hand (I know!) and he now sometimes mouths ankles to get a treat.

I have set out the above to indicate the difference between what I have seen as normal puppy behaviour and what is happening now.

About the 1st week in December I had Hermee's coat stripped - it was a 2-3 hr process and he came back head shy and snappy (little ones at your hand going to his head). I put this down to the stripping which had included his head (at least it was trimmed) although the groomer said he was well behaved but who knows. Before this we had no snapping/headshy problem.

The low level snapping/head shyness continued but not with me. It was generally with a friend (tall man). I put this down to a great big person looming over him and told the friend to bend down as other people/children could pat him on the head. It did not really work but then he normally forgot to bend down. The snaps did get more intensive/aggressive with him but still not enough to worry over much. I corrected and told him to correct Hermann with an 'AH AH' which Hermee knows is a stop command and thought it would get better in time.

Gradually however it has got worse and spread to a number of different people. For instance he snapped aggressively and a number of times at a man today that he is normally great friends with when the man went to pat him as he has always done. For the last 2 days he has even snapped at me and tonight was a big and aggressive one right at my face that made me afraid. To be fair to the poor dog, he has been unsettled to night (don't know why) and I made the situation worse as I thought crooning to him and stoking him would settle him (as it has in the past) and he presumably interpreted this as invading his space etc. Also it is not just his face now but when your hand goes to his body. 

I looked him over and there is no obvious injury. He does have a right shoulder injury (wrenched it & limps) but has had that for about 3 weeks so I don't see it has a causative factor. Because of the limp he is on shorter walks that he was used to but he still got 2 x 30 mins of pottering around today (and everyday). 

What should I do to stop him snapping? A firm 'Ah Ah' is not working nor is turning around and ignoring him. 

I am intending to neuter him at 1 year old.

Thanks,

Hermee


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

I think the major issue here is you didnt take action as soon as the behaviour started. The first snap would of set of major red flags in my mind. You say that the first few snaps at your tall friend were nothing to worry about but any type of aggression should be taken very seriously! 
To be honest, from your post it sounds like this dog is allowed to rule the roost and is taking advantage of it and you. He has now learned that snapping makes people move out of his space and that is a very dangerous dog to be around. 
I would start Nothing in Life is Free with your pup. This means your pup will have to preform a command (first time you ask) before he gets anything such as food, attention, treats, let out to pee etc. It teaches the dog in a kind way that you are the boss and everthing comes from you when You decide.

Nothing in Life is Free

My second piece of advice would be to get in touch with a behaviourist as soon as possible. They will teach you how to correct these issues. 
The good news is that your dog is very young and this shouldn't be to hard to correct using the proper methods 

Sorry just to add.. please dont pet and coddle your pup when he acts unsettled. This is teaching him that its ok to act this way. Your attention is praise and reinforcing this behaviour.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'd take him to the vet to rule out any physical problems first. There's no point treating it as behavioural if he's in some sort of pain.

Is it always the same sort of situation he snaps in? Have you identified any triggers other than the tall man? Many dogs do not like their heads being patted, some tolerate it but others don't, especially from strangers. I know you said it's grown to include his body now but it could be because he's worrying about people touching his head. I have to say I'd be wondering what the groomer did if this started immediately after he went there!


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

I have two terrier crosses and have been through the snappy stage with both but what you are explaining seems more than the norm.

If it was me (and I am no expert) I would start a no tolerance routine straight away. This pup needs to know once and for all that it's behaviour is not to be tolerated. As soon as it snaps I would remove it to another room and ignore it for a minute. It doesn't sound long but to a pup it is. Repeat this every time and it should stop the behaviour after a while but you have to be consistent. I would also big up the praise when the pup is being good.

One way or another this needs sorting before they are any older IMO.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

Sorry I forget to suggest ruling out a medical issue! Sarah1983 makes an excellent point


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

I think you (OP) and the above poster ^^^ would benefit from a change of perspective. 

It sounds like you have read up on a lot of stuff and done well with your pup so far, well done! Who knows what went on at the groomers. Rest assured, I would not be sending my dog to a groomer without attending there all the time! Although some groomers know there stuff, there is sometimes a trend among them that they just do what ever is necessary to get the job done...

From your pup's perspective, no matter how it has arisen, he is hand shy, particularly of people touching his head. He has an anxiety about people doing this, and a fear of it when they attempt to do it. A growl or snap is a polite warning to whoever is approaching that he is not comfortable. Just in the way that a nervous person will ask someone to move away from them. However, so far this does not sound like it has been heeded. And whilst it is reinforcing the behaviour every time someone moves away, it is not right to correct or punish the dog for the behaviour. Why would a dog be trying to 'rule the roost'? Why do we need to show, or indeed does he want to show, that he is the boss? A Nothing In Life Is Free programme can train great human-appropriate manners, but should not be used as some dominance-reduction programme. The notion that dogs live in hierarchies, and that this is some innate behaviour, is trash and has been known to be trash for some time now 

Snapping is not 'wrong'. Every dog can be defensive and aggressive. It's a survival skill, and your pup is responding to encroaching hands as a threat to his welfare. Punishing his behaviour will do nothing but suppress the behaviour (i.e. momentarily subdue it through intimidating him even more so). But as you've found out, this is not a good option as invariably the behaviour can escalate. The fear is not being treated, only his specific behavioural response that manifests the fear. 

To work on the fear, you need to re-condition your pup to not be afraid of people's hands. This means that he should associate people approaching him and reaching out there hands with positive things, i.e. affection, treats, toys and other rewards. 

However, this needs to be done slowly. Here's some guidelines of a potential behavioural programme. I recommend clicker training: 

1) Charge the clicker by having a whole meal and clicking and feeding him one piece at a time. Click before you feed, and feed within a couple of seconds after the click. Soon the click will come to mean 'treat' and will be a rewarding sound. 

2) Practise some basic behaviours, and click and treat (c/t) every time he successfully performs it, e.g. Sit, c/t; down, c/t. This will even more associate the sound with the food.

3) Do exercises of calling the dog over, and as soon as he gets closer, c/t. Throw the treat to him at first, and gradually reduce the distance you throw so he is fed close to you. 

4) Progress, after a number of trials, to calling him over, c/t and feeding him by your feet. 

5) Progress to calling him over, c/t when he arrives near you, and holding out your hand with the food visible and allowing him to take it. 

6) Progress to walking over to the dog, kneeling down, c/t and feeding him from your hand. Ask family members and others to do the same patterns until your dog is much happier with taking food from people's hands. 

7) Progress to walking over, c/t and feeding him from your hand whilst standing or bending down. Only you do this at first, and slowly progress to others doing it too. 

8) Once he is happier with your hand reaching out, you can now practise 'touch and treat'. Hold out the palm of your hand, with or without a treat in it, and once he touches your hand with his nose, c/t. Do many repetitions. 

9) Introduce the command 'Touch!' just before he touches your hand once he knows the behaviour. 

10) Progress to making him do the 'Touch!' behaviour in different positions, e.g. with your hand around his side, or above his head. 

11) Once he is happy with this, you can practise touching his body and immediately c/t handsomely. 

12) Progress to touching his head briefy, and c/t. 

13) Ask others to do the same, from stage 8-12

14) Keep practising this daily, and touching his head for longer periods of time.

These stages are general and quite comprehensive. You may not need all of them and I recommend you get a similarly minded behaviourist to help your through them (or others). 

You should always supervise your pup with other people, and tell people to kneel down upon greeting and let your dog come to you. NO ONE should be allowed to go straight over the top of your dog and pat his head, they should all hold out their hand under the dog's nose, let the dog come to them, and you or the person should deliver a treat. Following the stages will only help if you don't have any setbacks with people encroaching in his space. 

If he snaps, it shows that he is too uncomfortable and you should either take him away from the situation immediately or ask the person to back up and end it on a good note, i.e. by offering a piece of food. 

I would use high-value food with your dog, like small pieces of cheese or chicken, as well as his daily meal food. Get rid of food bowls, and keep his food in a treat pouch for training throughout the day!

Finally, check out Kikopup or supernaturalbc2009 & supernaturalbc2008 on You Tube for clicker training examples!!


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

the melster said:


> I have two terrier crosses and have been through the snappy stage with both but what you are explaining seems more than the norm.
> 
> If it was me (and I am no expert) I would start a no tolerance routine straight away. This pup needs to know once and for all that it's behaviour is not to be tolerated. As soon as it snaps I would remove it to another room and ignore it for a minute. It doesn't sound long but to a pup it is. Repeat this every time and it should stop the behaviour after a while but you have to be consistent. I would also big up the praise when the pup is being good.
> 
> One way or another this needs sorting before they are any older IMO.


But why should a pup or any dog be punished for acting like this? The dog is scared of hands approaching him, he has had bad experiences and does not need punished. He needs reconditioned to feel safe about hands approaching him.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm with Rottiefan, I disagree with punishing a dog for warning you that it's uncomfortable or unhappy with something. And a snap_ is_ a warning. Simply punishing the fear does nothing at all to help the dog feel more relaxed about what it's worried about.

Avoiding situations that trigger the dog to snap may seem counter productive but it is absolutely necessary to work at a level the dog is comfortable with if you're to change it's opinion of the scary thing.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

It sounds like possibly first off the mouthing problem was never completely sorted out, as he still mouthed hands and seemed from you post that he even mouthed ankles too. problem is with using treats to reward a behaviour timing is very important. Praise and/or treats miss-timed can inadvertently sometimes end up rewarding the behaviour you dont want, it sounds that this could have possibly been happening at times.

Personally I would say that your current problem and the exacerbated mouthing snapping and biting has been possibly been caused by the coat stripping.
2/3 hours is hell of a session for a pup, done incorrectly and under duress and in a stressed state which could ha ve possibly happened could have quite easily caused him to be defensive and head shy.
If he was heavily restrained too that might have made/exacerbated his shoulder injury worse too, a dog that is in pain will also become defensive and snap.

Growling, air snapping and nipping can be a way to ask for space and to be left alone. A growl is usually your first warning, air snapping is the 2nd, ignore that and it will often go to a nip, ignore that and then you get a bite. Keep supressing his growl, air snap etc, then the danger is they can go straight to a more intense nip or bite and not bother with the earlier asking for space rituals. Thats why it may be getting more and more intense, the Ahh Ahh is supressing his early warnings.

Sounds like he could be in pain from his shoulder and is also sensitive and stressed from the ordeal of the stripping or quite possibly.

I would get him examined properly by a vet, and have him checked all over they will do manipulations and locate exactly if and where there are pain responses.

To get him moving about the place and doing as you ask, I would go back to basics doing proper training sessions with him for 10/15 minutes 2/3 times a day, putting him through sit stay wait come etc etc, and only giving him treats when he complys. If you need to move him about from room to room off sofas etc, dont handle him, use treats and get him tocome to you as a lure and he doesnt get them at all unless he has done as asked. Also play with him, even if its rolling a ball gently because of his injury. Train and interact with him building up his confidence and trust again. When he is relaxed they try to gently stroke him, if he stays calm and doesnt snap then he gets praised.

If he does bite or snap, then get him into another room by calling him and leave him there for a few minutes, let him out but continue to ignore him for longer to make sure he is going to stay calm, then call him to you get him to sit and give him the treat. A lot of people say the ignoring or turning their backs doesnt work, because they dont withdraw attention for long enough and resume attention before the dog is completely calm and stayed that way.

I would tell people not to force attention on him at the moment, no speaking, no going to stroke him eye contact nothing, just totally ignore him like he isnt there even. When and if he shows interest then they can speak gently, see if he will accept a stroke and then finally make eye contact at his pace. It also helps if they ignore him and casually but without any contact throw treats in his direction to see if he will move forward and instigate contact himself.

At his age they can go through a fear period where even previously outgoing confident pups again react to sights sounds and situation again with uncertainty and fear. If he is going through one of these periods then the stripping session especially if with an element of force to it wouldnt have done any favours.


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

Rottiefan said:


> But why should a pup or any dog be punished for acting like this? The dog is scared of hands approaching him, he has had bad experiences and does not need punished. He needs reconditioned to feel safe about hands approaching him.


Of course the OP should work on building up trust with the dog re touching and with praise but in my opinion a dog should never be just allowed to snap at people, under any circumstances.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

the melster said:


> Of course the OP should work on building up trust with the dog re touching and with praise but in my opinion a dog should never be just allowed to snap at people, under any circumstances.


That is the same as saying a person should never stand up for themselves when they feel threatened. Just because it's a dog and our society completely misinterprets and overacts over the slightest sign of defensive behaviour, does not mean we should take away their defenses when they feel threatened.

The dog is not just snapping at people to be a nuisance or being 'naughty' or doing anything wrong. They have learnt that people reaching out their hands is dangerous and threatening; that is why the dog is snapping. And note, a snap is not a bite, in the same way that a growl is not a snap and a nip is not a bite and inhibited bite is not an uninhibited bite. I, personally, love dogs that show me these clear warnings and they can show them whenever they feel threatened! It is polite communication, it's just our society that sees them as 'wrong'.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I really don't get that attitude I'm afraid. The dog is warning that it's worried about or even physically uncomfortable with something and this should "not be allowed". Why? 

Hermee has probably been telling his owner that he's uncomfortable about something for a while and because we're so naturally hopeless at picking up on things like a slight stiffening of the body, a licking of the lips etc those warnings haven't been seen so as far as he's concerned he's had no choice but to escalate his polite "please don't do that" to "Get the f**k away from me!" 

I'm betting even now there are subtle signs before the snap. Even if it's just him freezing or stiffening for a second before he snaps, learning to spot that and backing off before he feels the need to snap would probably help a hell of a lot.


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## hermee (Dec 28, 2011)

Hello All,

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. It has given me a lot to think about.

As regards the groomers I definitely made a mistake there. I did have some misgivings as I thought how do they intend to groom a puppy for 2-3 hrs that has never met them/been to that store/been groomed before...but they assured me all would be well and like a fool I agreed and left. I won't be going back there again.

As regards the NILIF I think it is a good suggestion generally to help improve hermee's general behaviour and obedience - I had been implementing it but not in so comprehensive a fashion as the article suggested nor as consistently as I should. It is a difficult business raising a puppy!!! 

For the snapping I'll will need to have a think on the suggestions made but I'll make a vet appointment tomorrow and I have sought a recommendation for a behaviorist. 

I leaning towards Rottiefan's suggestion as it seems to get at the root of the problem. Also today when he was snapping at me I undertook the equivalent of the melster's suggestion each time (before I posted)(put him in his cage I know it should not be used as a punishment but he hates it now since he was confined in it on vets orders for 3 days (we did not last)) and he snapped more while I was trying to do it (probably what started the snapping at hands going to his back now i think of it) and then started growling at me and then we had the huge big snap so there was exacerbation. 

Thanks Rottiefan for the 'well done'. I've tried by best (done all the research and tried to implement it) and was getting despondent that I have failed Hermee but that cheered me up. just got to keep on working at it!

Thanks, H


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> I really don't get that attitude I'm afraid. The dog is warning that it's worried about or even physically uncomfortable with something and this should "not be allowed". Why?
> 
> Hermee has probably been telling his owner that he's uncomfortable about something for a while and because we're so naturally hopeless at picking up on things like a slight stiffening of the body, a licking of the lips etc those warnings haven't been seen so as far as he's concerned he's had no choice but to escalate his polite "please don't do that" to "Get the f**k away from me!"
> 
> I'm betting even now there are subtle signs before the snap. Even if it's just him freezing or stiffening for a second before he snaps, learning to spot that and backing off before he feels the need to snap would probably help a hell of a lot.


Yep, freezes in particular are great determiners of a growl/snap/bite incoming. However, they are also one of the hardest to act upon as they can be very quick! 

Checking out the body language sticky on here is a must. Looking for calming signals, e.g. lip licks, head turns, shake offs, scratching, avoiding eye contact, sniffing etc. will greatly help in determining how your dog is feeling when people are around him. More indicative signs of stress are heavy panting, sweaty paws, muscle tension around the face, erect tail (depending on breed), erect ears, shedding, whale and hard eye (seeing the whites of the eye, and a clear, hard line between the white and colour).


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Rottiefan said:


> I, personally, love dogs that show me these clear warnings and they can show them whenever they feel threatened! It is polite communication, it's just our society that sees them as 'wrong'.


Clear warnings are a blessing. I considered Rupert far more dangerous than my grouchy, growly collie purely because Shadow gave so much warning before even growling whereas Rupert went straight for the uninhibited bite.



> Yep, freezes in particular are great determiners of a growl/snap/bite incoming. However, they are also one of the hardest to act upon as they can be very quick!


That's true unfortunately. Rupert would freeze for just a split second before launching into an attack on another dog. Even when spotted it can be too late to do anything about it.


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## hermee (Dec 28, 2011)

He def did give me give me signals before the big snap - he went very still and whiney/growled (more whine than growl) but I misinterpreted them. will re-read the dog signals sticky! Poor Hermee.

thanks Sled dog hotel for your views - i agree with you on the groomers and that the mouthing was never really fully eradicated. As you noted he would purposely mouth my ankle for a treat as we must have got the timing wrong and would sometimes intensify the bite if he did not get the treat. I like your suggestion about luring/calling him to another room as it removed the handling problems I posted about before. 

thanks all, i've got to sleep now (past midnight here) so please don't think me rude if i give no response until sometime tomorrow. 

thanks h.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

hermee said:


> He def did give me give me signals before the big snap - he went very still and whiney/growled (more whine than growl) but I misinterpreted them. will re-read the dog signals sticky! Poor Hermee.
> 
> thanks Sled dog hotel for your views - i agree with you on the groomers and that the mouthing was never really fully eradicated. As you noted he would purposely mouth my ankle for a treat as we must have got the timing wrong and would sometimes intensify the bite if he did not get the treat. I like your suggestion about luring/calling him to another room as it removed the handling problems I posted about before.
> 
> ...


Im sure with work and time re building his trust he will be fine. One of mine was severly anxious and fear aggressive as a pup and his an absolute terrific dog now, took time and patience but I can now groom him put in eye drops the lot. Problem is one bad experience and bad handling can set them back,
but with time and patience and re-training they come right in the end usually.


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## hermee (Dec 28, 2011)

just a quick update - the vet is shut for the week but I am in the process of getting an appointment with the behaviour guy.

some close observation yesterday indicates that there may be three problems that are eliding into each other. 

the first is that mouthing/nipping has never been nipped in the bud (its my first coffee of the day!) and so he nips to get fingers/gloves/scarves as you lean down - we've had a v mild winter so all these have just recently come out.

the second is that there is some headshyness but it is very variable and i have not yet found a common denominator. tall guy was able yesterday to pat/touch/fondle him round the head with no problem as was I and my mum says she has never had a problem. i did some handling training with treats with no problem. gave him his metacam with syringe into his mouth and took out a twig that was stuck between his teeth all with no problem. 

the third is that (possibly only when on the couch) if some one sits down on the couch next to him and pets him he (perhaps) feels cornered and snaps aggressively. this is new and i can't recall what would have caused it. but he did it to tall man yesterday. i was watching and he was nipping and i went ah ah and then i saw the stillness and was looking for hard eye and concluded there was none when he snapped! no growling. so i need more lessons in observation. 

anyway have got re-stuck into the training to try and get all the KC bronze award criteria down pat. hermee is currently singing to his squeaky toy...


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