# Raw Meat For Your Dog? Why?



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

I have noticed a propensity for some members on this forum to feel the need to return their dog to a raw meat diet and wonder what the reasoning behind that decision is. Can anyone tell me?

The reason why I ask is that I had a Border Collie for seventeen years and he was on complete dry food from 12 weeks old until he passed away. No problems. Same with the rest of my family's and friend's dogs too. Better vet care is, of course, instrumental to longer pet lifespans but diet must also play it's part.

Plus, not that it necessarily relates to the question directly but, if raw meat does have benefits then why do humans cook their meat before they eat it.

Interested in everyone's points of view as I have been a strong advocate for dry food since its beginnings.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I decided to switch my dogs to a raw diet after spending time reading about the different types of diets, the different types of commercial food, the ingredients, etc & also by assessing both my dogs & their needs.

Personally I don't believe that one diet suits all & some dogs will do well on commercial diet but some may not. Same with the owner, some people may not be able to feed a raw diet due to lack of suppliers, space at home, etc but some can easily do this.

As long as research is done & people are considering the pros & cons then IME a raw diet has been fantastic for my dogs (one was initially not really interested in her food before switching to raw), they love their meals, have lovely clean teeth & look great. 

Not sure why you can be a strong advocate for dry food though as whilst some are great some are pretty crappy.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

It's all about the diet that works best for your dog. My previous dog was so much healthier on raw & some ongoing health problems (rescued stray) completely cleared up. My current dog is on complete dry kibble - I did try her on raw, as it had benefitted my previous dog so much, but she refused to eat it!


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Of course a personal preference is understandable but what was the specific needs for your dogs that caused you to make the decision to put them on a raw diet?

When dry feed first started I had a lot of customers with German Shepherds (in particular) that said it didn't agree with their dog as it affected the coat and poo. So, I directed them to a low oil content food and hey presto! problem solved. German Shepherds (unlike most other breeds) do not need a high oil content food and it was the excess oil causing the problem.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

As Cleo said, it is individual choice. There is no saying anything is better, it's what suits you and your dog.

My reasons for going raw were:

Fussy dog that likes variety
Doesn't like dry (at least not as his whole diet)
Natural Nutritional benefits
I just enjoy preparing an individual meal for him and adding what I like.
I like to know exactly what I'm feeding, same as myself, as unprocessed as possible.

One of my parents dogs is on dry and she does very well on it, so shows that it's whatever suits 

Oh and humans cook their meat because we have totally different stomachs and digestive systems to dogs. We do not have the acids/whatever they are to break down raw meat and kill parasites they way dogs do.
for example, raw tripe is very very good for dogs, but would make us very ill.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> I decided to switch my dogs to a raw diet after spending time reading about the different types of diets, the different types of commercial food, the ingredients, etc & also by assessing both my dogs & their needs.
> 
> Personally I don't believe that one diet suits all & some dogs will do well on commercial diet but some may not. Same with the owner, some people may not be able to feed a raw diet due to lack of suppliers, space at home, etc but some can easily do this.
> 
> ...


Totally agree that one diet will not suit all dogs.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Of course a personal preference is understandable but what was the specific needs for your dogs that caused you to make the decision to put them on a raw diet?
> 
> When dry feed first started I had a lot of customers with German Shepherds (in particular) that said it didn't agree with their dog as it affected the coat and poo. So, I directed them to a low oil content food and hey presto! problem solved. German Shepherds (unlike most other breeds) do not need a high oil content food and it was the excess oil causing the problem.


One of my dogs was not interested in food, one had a tendency to put on weight so I decided to see if raw would help was one of the reasons but it was more that I believe that a diet where I could manage & knew everything they were eating (rather than constantly having to look at ingredients) was a better option.

That's not to say they never have kibble, they do in treat balls at times & I use certain kibble (or other dried food) for tracking with my young dog.

Why do certain dogs need a 'high oil content'? What oil do they need that GSD's don't? I've never heard of this before.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> As Cleo said, it is individual choice. There is no saying anything is better, it's what suits you and your dog.
> 
> My reasons for going raw were:
> 
> ...


Love personal preference, absolutely. 
Natural nutritional benefits?? Hmm not sure that just what the dog likes should be preferable to a balanced diet.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Love personal preference, absolutely.
> Natural nutritional benefits?? Hmm not sure that just what the dog likes should be preferable to a balanced diet.


He does have a balanced diet


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> One of my dogs was not interested in food, one had a tendency to put on weight so I decided to see if raw would help was one of the reasons but it was more that I believe that a diet where I could manage & knew everything they were eating (rather than constantly having to look at ingredients) was a better option.
> 
> That's not to say they never have kibble, they do in treat balls at times & I use certain kibble (or other dried food) for tracking with my young dog.
> 
> Why do certain dogs need a 'high oil content'? What oil do they need that GSD's don't? I've never heard of this before.


I was once told by a vet that GSD's (unlike many other breeds) create a great deal of the oil needed for coat internally and thereby do not need high oil levels in their food. Seemed to fit when dry food came about and, certainly, when I passed that info on to my customers their dogs appeared to benefit.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

My old dog had continuous anal gland issues which vanished on raw food diet. He also was in very poor condition on a couple of types of dry food, which again improved on raw. Also, he was underweight when he came, he didn't like complete food, neither did he like drinking from a bowl. He loved the raw food, gained weight, and I was happy that he had more moisture in that, so didn't worry about his drinking so much. I wondered if perhaps, having had to scavenge for so long, he was unused to having the same food all the time so felt happier with a variety?

As for why I tried it, a friend's dog had benefited from raw & suggested I try it. It wasn't particularly that I wanted to feed raw, merely that I was looking for a different diet for him and this one worked. To me, trying raw instead of dry was no different to swapping from one type of kibble to another - if your dog isn't doing well on one diet, you try another and keep trying until you find something that works.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I was once told by a vet that GSD's (unlike many other breeds) create a great deal of the oil needed for coat internally and thereby do not need high oil levels in their food. Seemed to fit when dry food came about and, certainly, when I passed that info on to my customers their dogs appeared to benefit.


So not based on any scentific or researched evidence then? .... & what oil exactly? There are many oils that are added to foods for different purposes so not sure what oils you mean to avoid?


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Mine are raw fed because one of my dogs has severe allergy to storage mites, which is commonly found in... Dry dog food! 
First two pictures are when she was on a high quality dry food ( taste of the wild) 
Bottom two is the improvement from raw


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> He does have a balanced diet


I am sure he does. I meant, that, in a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes. It's a nice though that a dog would eat what it needs rather than just what it likes but I am mindful that if I served a plate of candy alongside a meat and vegetables meal to my children then I am pretty sure I know which one they would choose.

Responsible dog owners know this of course and make sure that their dog has a good balance.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> So not based on any scentific or researched evidence then? .... & what oil exactly? There are many oils that are added to foods for different purposes so not sure what oils you mean to avoid?


It would be interesting to find some additional info actually. Perhaps there is a vet on this forum somewhere. I merely trusted a vet, I am not one.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am sure he does. I meant, that, in a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas *with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes*. It's a nice though that a dog would eat what it needs rather than just what it likes but I am mindful that if I served a plate of candy alongside a meat and vegetables meal to my children then I am pretty sure I know which one they would choose.
> 
> Responsible dog owners know this of course and make sure that their dog has a good balance.


Only if the owner allows it! When my dog was on raw, he ate everything that was given him. I made sure that he did. It doesn't matter whether your dog is on raw & allowed to pick and choose, or on dry and is fed so many treats that he won't eat his dinner, the responsibility for the balance (or lack of) is with the owner.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> It would be interesting to find some additional info actually. Perhaps there is a vet on this forum somewhere. I merely trusted a vet, I am not one.


But if you are directing your customers towards a certain brand of food would you not do your own research regarding the food & the ingredients .....


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Mine are raw fed because one of my dogs has severe allergy to storage mites, which is commonly found in... Dry dog food!
> First two pictures are when she was on a high quality dry food ( taste of the wild)
> Bottom two is the improvement from raw
> 
> View attachment 269432


I am pleased it worked for you and I am aware of storage mite on dry food that has sat in a cupboard for far too long or has been in a shop that does not rotate their dry food/out of date etc. But then again, raw meat will be bad for your dog if it is allowed to go rotten.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> Only if the owner allows it! When my dog was on raw, he ate everything that was given him. I made sure that he did. It doesn't matter whether your dog is on raw & allowed to pick and choose, or on dry and is fed so many treats that he won't eat his dinner, the responsibility for the balance (or lack of) is with the owner.


Responsible owners yes, I agree. But where did treats come into it? The point I made was that a dog's choice over what is preferable can be swayed just as with humans.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> But if you are directing your customers towards a certain brand of food would you not do your own research regarding the food & the ingredients .....


Of course, but the point was not that I did not research the ingredients but ,rather, what food was suited better to what breeds.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

By the way, I am not anti raw food. Just interested as to why some have made the choice to swap to it.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am sure he does. I meant, that, in a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes. It's a nice though that a dog would eat what it needs rather than just what it likes but I am mindful that if I served a plate of candy alongside a meat and vegetables meal to my children then I am pretty sure I know which one they would choose.
> 
> Responsible dog owners know this of course and make sure that their dog has a good balance.


What the hell are you??
Is this because you don't sell Raw on your website that you have this opinion?

There are licked clean bowls in this house since the switch to raw, I'm not stupid, I don't let him pick what he likes. If there is something he is not keen on (which there is, raw eggs) then I mix it and disguise it in his food, so I know he's eating it.

The world is not that black and white either, my child 9/10 times picks a piece of fruit over sweets.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am pleased it worked for you and I am aware of storage mite on dry food that has sat in a cupboard for far too long or has been in a shop that does not rotate their dry food/out of date etc. But then again, raw meat will be bad for your dog if it is allowed to go rotten.


That's why it's stored in a freezer


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Of course, but the point was not that I did not research the ingredients but ,rather, what food was suited better to what breeds.


That doesn't make sense though ... how can you know what food is more suitable without knowing what the ingredients are & of what quantities are used?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

You are just a eBay seller who is scouting for business on a pet forum. Perhaps you should research your chosen trade properly so you can advise your customers and potential customers with valid information.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Those teeth were stained badly when I took Thai on at 3..he had been fed an un-named kibble that was full of sugar and crap...skip forward 3 years of a mixed raw/high quality named meat kibble (I would feed full raw but I don't have the freezer space here) and as you can see his teeth are sparkling...No dental or brushing of the teeth needed.

That is one reason I feed raw, the other is the contentedness of the dog after their dinner.

Nothing wrong with kibble IMO, but given the choice I would choose a well balanced raw diet every time...but then saying that, any kibble is better than an unbalanced raw diet


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Responsible owners yes, I agree. But where did treats come into it? The point I made was that a dog's choice over what is preferable can be swayed just as with humans.


You said that with "a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes" My point is that a dog is only allowed to eat what it likes if *the owner permits it to*. Balance is not about raw v dry, but about the owner ensuring that the dog receives all the nutrients it requires. I know owners whose dogs won't eat their complete kibble because the owners have stuffed the dog with so many treats and biscuits before hand that it is full! That is just as imbalanced as an owner who feeds raw food and allows their dog to pick and choose! But neither case would be due to a fault in the diet, but to the owner not administering the diet correctly.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I do it because I brought my children up with meals cooked from scratch using minimal processed food, so it seemed logical to do the same for the animals- the only ones currently on a more processed diet are my cats & that's because I'm on time constraints & am not yet confident enough to get their nutritional needs met with DIY raw. They do have raw a few times a week, mostly chicken wings & heart & they much prefer it to their wet food.

Plus I much prefer picking up tiny nuggets of almost aroma free poop to the smelly brown marshmallows they gifted me with when on kibble


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Mine are raw fed because one of my dogs has severe allergy to storage mites, which is commonly found in... Dry dog food!
> First two pictures are when she was on a high quality dry food ( taste of the wild)
> Bottom two is the improvement from raw
> 
> View attachment 269432


These photos are emotive and personal for sure and I do not like to hear of any animal in poor condition. I am not sure what these photos actually prove th


Muttly said:


> What the hell are you??
> Is this because you don't sell Raw on your website that you have this opinion?
> 
> There are licked clean bowls in this house since the switch to raw, I'm not stupid, I don't let him pick what he likes. If there is something he is not keen on (which there is, raw eggs) then I mix it and disguise it in his food, so I know he's eating it.
> ...


I would happily sell raw on my website if I thought it had a great demand. I am a businessman.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> That doesn't make sense though ... how can you know what food is more suitable without knowing what the ingredients are & of what quantities are used?


Please read previous post. I do read ingredients, always have.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> You said that with "a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes" My point is that a dog is only allowed to eat what it likes if *the owner permits it to*. Balance is not about raw v dry, but about the owner ensuring that the dog receives all the nutrients it requires. I know owners whose dogs won't eat their complete kibble because the owners have stuffed the dog with so many treats and biscuits before hand that it is full! That is just as imbalanced as an owner who feeds raw food and allows their dog to pick and choose! But neither case would be due to a fault in the diet, but to the owner not administering the diet correctly.


Re: Stuffing full of treats... sometimes that has been my experience too. Often this is why the dog won't eat.
Re: Balanced diet... exactly my point.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> I do it because I brought my children up with meals cooked from scratch using minimal processed food, so it seemed logical to do the same for the animals- the only ones currently on a more processed diet are my cats & that's because I'm on time constraints & am not yet confident enough to get their nutritional needs met with DIY raw. They do have raw a few times a week, mostly chicken wings & heart & they much prefer it to their wet food.
> 
> Plus I much prefer picking up tiny nuggets of almost aroma free poop to the smelly brown marshmallows they gifted me with when on kibble


Perhaps they were not on the right kibble but yes, of course, personal preference I understand.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Please read previous post. I do read ingredients, always have.


Reading is different from researching  .....

By your own admission your advice to one customer was based on nothing but a comment from a vet


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I have 5 cats and 2 dogs.

None are kibble fed. I personally like to know _exactly _what I am feeding and since I do source most of the raw meat myself I know what is going into my animals.

My large primitive livestock guardian was in a horrendous condition on kibble, his body couldn't seem to process the fillers that many kibble companies put in their food. Switched him to raw at 4 months and he is thriving as is my now nearly 15-year-old Westie. My Westie has also never been to the Vet for anything other than vaccinations.

If your dog does well on kibble good for you! Stick to it, it's obviously working.

Will I be feeding kibble, high quality or not? No.

Do I berate owners that do? Of course not! People and pets are individuals


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

My dogs eat a high quality kibble sometimes, sometimes raw, sometimes concoctions of oatmeal, yogurt and whatever else I can scrounge up if we have managed to run out of dog food in the house. They also find dead disgustingness in the woods that is apparently delicious :Yuck

Before dry food we had dogs who lived off barley, oats, or rice, and whatever offal the butcher had for cheap. And they lived long, healthy lives. 

There are a myriad of ways owners can provide a good diet to their dogs. Kibble is very convenient, sure, but it doesn’t suit all dogs.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am pleased it worked for you and I am aware of storage mite on dry food that has sat in a cupboard for far too long or has been in a shop that does not rotate their dry food/out of date etc. But then again, raw meat will be bad for your dog if it is allowed to go rotten.


Who feeds their dog raw food that has been allowed to go rotten? Most people have a freezer these days.

I feed raw but I'm not obsessive about it, some things I cook such as offal/hearts just because my dogs don't like or want them raw. Sometimes I feed kibble with their raw or give them a break from raw altogether but I keep on going back to it. The main reason for me is customer satisfaction - they love it, no better sight for me than watching a dog tuck in to a bone or carcass, if of course they like it and it suits them. I wouldn't hesitate to change back to kibble if raw didn't suit and do feed my GSP half kibble half raw for one meal as his coat loses some condition on only raw. My pointer gets itchy skin and loose bowels on kibble, never did find one that suited him whereas on raw he stops itching immediately and his tummy is much more stable although it is a fine balancing act with him as certain bones make him constipated and offal can make him loose but on the whole he does much better on raw. Indie my rottie is awful on kibble, her behaviour changes, we call it "kibble head" as she gets grouchy and turns into a bully with the other dogs, a few days off kibble and she is back to her usual self. However for us raw did not cure GSP's anal gland problems and eating raw bones hasn't cleaned Indie's teeth up so I think some of the benefits don't apply to all dogs.

Nice little video of a dog eating a chicken carcass

http://www.nurturingbynature.co.uk/Chicken_Carcass_p/carcx40.htm


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Reading is different from researching  .....
> 
> By your own admission your advice to one customer was based on nothing but a comment from a vet


I think I said 'advice' from a vet and yes, researching is different from just reading, agreed. Yet to hear any convincing reason for swapping to raw food though plus... raw food doesn't come with a label I guess.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> My dogs eat a high quality kibble sometimes, sometimes raw, sometimes concoctions of oatmeal, yogurt and whatever else I can scrounge up if we have managed to run out of dog food in the house. They also find dead disgustingness in the woods that is apparently delicious :Yuck
> 
> Before dry food we had dogs who lived off barley, oats, or rice, and whatever offal the butcher had for cheap. And they lived long, healthy lives.
> 
> There are a myriad of ways owners can provide a good diet to their dogs. Kibble is very convenient, sure, but it doesn't suit all dogs.


Love this


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

As the owner of an online pet food store @DogsandCatsShopCoUK , I can quite understand why you're an advocate of dry food.  I can imagine kibble is big business for you!

My four dogs, aged between 6 - 14 years, are all fed a raw diet.

I love knowing _exactly _what they're eating (I do not use pre-made raw completes, this largely defeats the point IMO), I love being able to give them a huge variety of fresh and natural foods.

I enjoy making them work for their dinner - whole rabbits, lamb breast, chicken backs, big chunks of tripe - all very challenging to hold, chew and eat. Much more exciting for them than slurping down a bowl of kibble in a few seconds.

Dental benefits are a huge bonus - flesh acts like floss and cleans between the teeth down to the gum line, bones mechanically scrape the teeth of plaque and tartar. No soft wet foods or soggy kibble residue to get bunged up on their teeth.

Dogs rarely drink enough water on a kibble diet. Raw meat has a high water content - good for urinary tract and kidney health.

I'm not anti-kibble, but am anti-kibble as far as MY dogs are concerned. Raw is, without a doubt, best for them (them being my dogs!)


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Who feeds their dog raw food that has been allowed to go rotten? Most people have a freezer these days.
> 
> I feed raw but I'm not obsessive about it, some things I cook such as offal/hearts just because my dogs don't like or want them raw. Sometimes I feed kibble with their raw or give them a break from raw altogether but I keep on going back to it. The main reason for me is customer satisfaction - they love it, no better sight for me than watching a dog tuck in to a bone or carcass, if of course they like it and it suits them. I wouldn't hesitate to change back to kibble if raw didn't suit and do feed my GSP half kibble half raw for one meal as his coat loses some condition on only raw. My pointer gets itchy skin and loose bowels on kibble, never did find one that suited him whereas on raw he stops itching immediately and his tummy is much more stable although it is a fine balancing act with him as certain bones make him constipated and offal can make him loose but on the whole he does much better on raw. Indie my rottie is awful on kibble, her behaviour changes, we call it "kibble head" as she gets grouchy and turns into a bully with the other dogs, a few days off kibble and she is back to her usual self. However for us raw did not cure GSP's anal gland problems and eating raw bones hasn't cleaned Indie's teeth up so I think some of the benefits don't apply to all dogs.
> 
> ...


Re: Rotten food. I guess you reinforce my point that we would not feed rotten meat to our dogs so why feed them kibble covered in mite that has been sitting around too long.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> These photos are emotive and personal for sure and I do not like to hear of any animal in poor condition. I am not sure what these photos actually prove th


It was to answer your question? The difference in her health is the reason I feed raw 
I fed raw around 2 years ago and took my dogs at the time off the diet and swapped to kibble, fed Markus Muhle NaturNah for around 14/15 months then swapped onto Taste of the wild when Skyla's issues started. If it wasn't for Skyla's issues I would probably still be feeding kibble. I'm not against it, I'm all for dog owners doing the best they can for their dogs, within their budget


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So dental health isn't a good reason?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SixStar said:


> As the owner of an online pet food store @DogsandCatsShopCoUK , I can quite understand why you're an advocate of dry food.  I can imagine kibble is big business for you!
> 
> My four dogs, aged between 6 - 14 years, are all fed a raw diet.
> 
> ...


As said before, I am not against raw food and would sell it if it had massive nutritional benefits and a huge demand.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> So dental health isn't a good reason?


Dental health is of course part of a good reason. Whatever you feed.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I would happily sell raw on my website if I thought it had a great demand. I am a businessman.


Might be worth you getting up to date on how popular it is and why then. This is taken from the All About Dog Food website

*The big question: What do you feed?*

Dry kibble 166

Dry cold pressed / air dried / freeze dried 18

Wet 27

Pre-prepared raw 73

Home-prepared raw 20

Home cooked 9

A mix 73

Also if you have a look at their ratings for food the raw completes tend to come out very high whereas a heck of a lot of kibbles are much lower scored.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> As said before, I am not against raw food and would sell it if it had massive nutritional benefits and a huge demand.


Why do you think raw doesn't have massive nutritional benefits but kibble does?

Wow, you're really not going the right way about promoting your shop (which, of course, is why you've joined)....


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Dental health is of course part of a good reason. Whatever you feed.


Indeed.
However, no kibble will clean the teeth in the same way a RMB does


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

SixStar said:


> Why do you think raw doesn't have massive nutritional benefits but kibble does?
> 
> Wow, you're really not going the right way about promoting your shop (which, of course, is why you've joined)....


It isn't even a shop. Try it. It's just a bunch of links to different eBay sellers.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Might be worth you getting up to date on how popular it is and why then. This is taken from the All About Dog Food website
> 
> *The big question: What do you feed?*
> 
> ...


Smoking was popular once upon a time and I am always skeptical about statistics, that's why I posed the question to the forum. So that I might get balanced opinion. I supppose, in a way, I am getting up to date eh?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Satori said:


> It isn't even a shop. Try it. It's just a bunch of links to different eBay sellers.


Oh ok, sounds.. erm, exciting eh?!


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

SixStar said:


> Wow, you're really not going the right way about promoting your shop (which, of course, is why you've joined)....


Tell me about it I was looking at it this morning for vetbed but think I'll stick with Bronteglen after some of these remarks, manners cost nothing really do they?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Satori said:


> It isn't even a shop. Try it. It's just a bunch of links to different eBay sellers.


A bunch of sellers with low prices, a collossal range and free delivery. It is perhaps not necessary to demean them before buying from them.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SixStar said:


> Oh ok, sounds.. erm, exciting eh?!


Perhaps it is. Personal preference is name of the game.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> So dental health isn't a good reason?


This is a big reason for making sure my dogs get turkey necks, and chicken wings regularly in their diet. They're 7 and 8 and have never needed a dental cleaning. I don't brush their teeth either.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Tell me about it I was looking at it this morning for vetbed but think I'll stick with Bronteglen after some of these remarks, manners cost nothing really do they?


I have been polite all through this thread. My question was genuine, why feed raw? I am genuinely interested in everyone's comments and despite being an advocate for dry food I have an open mind.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Me thinks you are purposefully starting a controversial thread pretending you don't know about why people feed raw. Just google raw feeding you will find of plenty of information

http://honeysrealdogfood.com/

http://www.naturalinstinct.com/

http://www.springfieldpoultry.co.uk/chicken-dog-food.php?start=0


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Indeed.
> However, no kibble will clean the teeth in the same way a RMB does


Perhaps, perhaps not. Though I would love to see some evidence.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Me thinks you are purposefully starting a controversial thread pretending you don't know about why people feed raw. Just google raw feeding you will find of plenty of information
> 
> http://honeysrealdogfood.com/
> 
> ...


I have read a lot already, including the stickies at the top of this thread but will read more. What is more interesting to me is those on this forum who have an opinion/experience.


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

I feed my dog raw becuase that is what he was on from being a puppy with the breeder, so we carried it on. Would probably not have thought of it had he not have started life eating it. We don't cook it ourselves, which is probably lazy of us, and he has either Natural Instinct or Natures Menu raw food. I can't praise it enough, he has a lot of ongoing skin allergy problems (not related to food) but the raw certainly seems to make a difference to his coat, his behaviour, poos, etc. so we'll stick to it. We did actually try some high quality dry food (Acana and Orijin) and whilst it was a lot more convenient he didn't seem all that keen on it, his poos were vot solid and to be honest, he stank!! :Yuck

I must admit, I have turned into a bit of dog food snob, my MIL feeds Royal Canin and her daughter feeds her dogs all kinds of what I would call crappy kibble. Their dogs seem find though, so it really it a case of what works best for you. I don't find that that raw is any more expensive than top quality kibble.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

SixStar said:


> *I'm not anti-kibble, but am anti-kibble as far as MY dogs are concerned. Raw is, without a doubt, best for them* (them being my dogs!)


Couldn't of put it better myself


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps, perhaps not. Though I would love to see some evidence.


Are you serious? You think kibble can clean teeth? Why don't YOU provide some evidence for this LOL!


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Are you serious? You think kibble can clean teeth? Why don't YOU provide some evidence for this LOL!


This is gonna be fun :Couchpotato


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Dental health is of course part of a good reason. Whatever you feed.


But, but, but :Banghead that's exactly the point @StormyThai was making with Thai's teeth!


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Yes. I found this over the last twenty years. As pet owners we all do what we believe is best for our pets, after all, we love 'em. Some feed what has been fed since puppies, some change for various reasons. I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> But, but, but :Banghead that's exactly the point @StormyThai was making with Thai's teeth!


Yes. I am aware and I have said nothing that brings that into question.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I have been polite all through this thread. My question was genuine, why feed raw? I am genuinely interested in everyone's comments and despite being an advocate for dry food I have an open mind.


OMG! That is what you have been greeted with, info and personal reasons and experiences. All WE were greeted with was cocky remarks and particularly about my dog not getting the right nutrients and only eating what he likes, which he doesn't. Just WTF?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Couldn't of put it better myself


Still doesn't answer my original question though unfortunately.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


Which kibble is scientifically proven controlled remedy feed? 

What about people who feed home cooked?

Hrm... should we be feeding our children pelleted food also because when we cook for them the nutritional quality might vary?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> OMG! That is what you have been greeted with, info and personal reasons and experiences. All WE were greeted with was cocky remarks and particularly about my dog not getting the right nutrients and only eating what he likes, which he doesn't. Just WTF?


I didn't suggest that about 'your' dog at all. I suggest that given a preference most dogs will go for something tasty to them whether it is good for them or not.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Which kibble is scientifically proven controlled remedy feed?
> 
> What about people who feed home cooked?
> 
> Hrm... should we be feeding our children pelleted food also because when we cook for them the nutritional quality might vary?


Re: Feeding pelleted food to humans.... I think it is too early to say what might happen in the future but I wouldn't rule it out.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes. I found this over the last twenty years. As pet owners we all do what we believe is best for our pets, after all, we love 'em. Some feed what has been fed since puppies, some change for various reasons. I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


What do you think dogs were fed on before kibble?

On the science side of things I know someone who works at a large pet food producing company as a food science technician.

She doesn't rate it and she helps develop these wonder kibbles.

She feeds raw to her dogs and cats  but that's her choice for her animals.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> What do you think dogs were fed on before kibble?
> 
> On the science side of things I know someone who works at a large pet food producing company as a food science technician.
> 
> ...


Totally agree about choice. Do you think dog lifespans have increased since the advent of dry food and do you think that this might be as a result of dry food?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

A fantastic book to read regarding assessing commercial dog food is Linda Case's 'Dog Food Logic' (see link .... http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/th...og-food-logic-the-science-of-canine-nutrition)


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Re: Feeding pelleted food to humans.... I think it is too early to say what might happen in the future but I wouldn't rule it out.


So you not going to answer my question about what is a scientifically proven remedy feed then?


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Totally agree about choice. Do you think dog lifespans have increased since the advent of dry food and do you think that this might be as a result of dry food?


Have lifespans increased? How would you measure that?

If they have, how could you point to one cause? 
We have better medical care, owners are more willing and financially able to offer that care to their dogs, instead of shooting the dog with a broken leg or heartworms. We put more effort in to training and are more willing to work with difficult dogs instead of taking them out back and shooting them. Breeders have better ways of testing for congenital conditions and avoiding them... There are SO many ways dogs lives have improved in the last decades, I highly doubt kibble gets any credit for longevity.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Totally agree about choice. Do you think dog lifespans have increased since the advent of dry food and do you think that this might be as a result of dry food?


No. Vetinary science has progressed as our understanding of genetic issues which can and do arise in dogs.

If you want personal anecdote my grandmother only ever fed her dogs tripe and raw food. Her oldest dog was a toy poodle who was 18 when she passed. She never had a dog die before its teens.

Whether that was feeding or not is entirely debatable FYI


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I didn't suggest that about 'your' dog at all. I suggest that given a preference most dogs will go for something tasty to them whether it is good for them or not.


and dogs are Carnivores, meat is tasty. That's what Muttly tells me anyway


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps, perhaps not. Though I would love to see some evidence.


There is no perhaps about it.
Kibble can not, and does not clean teeth - fact


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

Muttly said:


> and dogs are Carnivores, so meat is tasty.


Actually I'm all about dogs being scavengers


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> A fantastic book to read regarding assessing commercial dog food is Linda Case's 'Dog Food Logic' (see link .... http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/th...og-food-logic-the-science-of-canine-nutrition)


Thanks... will read. Though, at first glance, this appears to be a site for a behaviourist giving comment on a book written about a nutritionist. I have yet to see whether it is unbiased (non profit making advice) but will definitely take a look. Thanks


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> There is no perhaps about it.
> Kibble can not, and does not clean teeth - fact


Every dog loves a bone as a treat now and then cleans teeth too. Doesn't quite convince me of a raw food diet yet though but totally interesting thread.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Have lifespans increased? How would you measure that?
> 
> If they have, how could you point to one cause?
> We have better medical care, owners are more willing and financially able to offer that care to their dogs, instead of shooting the dog with a broken leg or heartworms. We put more effort in to training and are more willing to work with difficult dogs instead of taking them out back and shooting them. Breeders have better ways of testing for congenital conditions and avoiding them... There are SO many ways dogs lives have improved in the last decades, I highly doubt kibble gets any credit for longevity.


But you can't rule it out?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Every dog loves a bone as a treat now and then cleans teeth too. Doesn't quite convince me of a raw food diet yet though but totally interesting thread.


I am not trying to convince anyone.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> If you want personal anecdote my grandmother only ever fed her dogs tripe and raw food. Her oldest dog was a toy poodle who was 18 when she passed. She never had a dog die before its teens.


Our childhood dogs ate barley and offal and whatever leftovers we had that were suitable for dogs. They lived long healthy lives. My grandfather's beagles ate whatever parts the humans didn't from hunted meat. Sometimes raw, sometimes all cooked up in to a sludge and poured over cooked oats. They all lived long healthy lives. 
Kibble is a relatively new invention, and frankly, some brands of kibble are known to be toxic to dogs. Purina's "Beneful" is a great (awful?) example


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> So you not going to answer my question about what is a scientifically proven remedy feed then?


Depends on the dog and its needs. No one rule for all is there.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> But you can't rule it out?


Considering how long dogs live on other forms of feeding, yes, I can.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I find it interesting how many kibble fanatics seem to be under the assumption that raw feeding dogs is some kind of new fad


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes. I found this over the last twenty years. As pet owners we all do what we believe is best for our pets, after all, we love 'em. Some feed what has been fed since puppies, some change for various reasons. I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


Because for some of us feeding our dogs a more natural food which they enjoy (nothing quite like the look of satisfaction from crunching up a carcass) is as important as getting a precise amount of nutrition in each and every meal. Kibble is fine if that is what suits your dog and your circumstances and your budget although frankly the cost of some of the high range kibbles is astounding. I have no idea what you mean by a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed  I think for a lot of people kibble is convenient - they don't have to think about getting stuff out of the freezer, or what to have that day or whether they have balanced ratios correctly, its also easier for people who travel with their dogs. A bit like convenience foods for humans I suppose, some people like them and some prefer home cooking from scratch.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Our childhood dogs ate barley and offal and whatever leftovers we had that were suitable for dogs. They lived long healthy lives. My grandfather's beagles ate whatever parts the humans didn't from hunted meat. Sometimes raw, sometimes all cooked up in to a sludge and poured over cooked oats. They all lived long healthy lives.
> Kibble is a relatively new invention, and frankly, some brands of kibble are known to be toxic to dogs. Purina's "Beneful" is a great (awful?) example


So, what you are saying here is that raw food doesn't shorten lives?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> I find it interesting how many kibble fanatics seem to be under the assumption that raw feeding dogs is some kind of new fad


Not with me. I am aware that raw food isn't new.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Because for some of us feeding our dogs a more natural food which they enjoy (nothing quite like the look of satisfaction from crunching up a carcass) is as important as getting a precise amount of nutrition in each and every meal. Kibble is fine if that is what suits your dog and your circumstances and your budget although frankly the cost of some of the high range kibbles is astounding. I have no idea what you mean by a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed  I think for a lot of people kibble is convenient - they don't have to think about getting stuff out of the freezer, or what to have that day or whether they have balanced ratios correctly, its also easier for people who travel with their dogs. A bit like convenience foods for humans I suppose, some people like them and some prefer home cooking from scratch.


Or both.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So, what you are saying here is that raw food doesn't shorten lives?


Of course raw food doesn't shorten lives!!! WTF?! Are you for real?! I'm just laughing now, good grief... Have you not read ANYTHING about feeding dogs?!


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Considering how long dogs live on other forms of feeding, yes, I can.


Hmm. I would love to see evidence.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> I find it interesting how many kibble fanatics seem to be under the assumption that raw feeding dogs is some kind of new fad


This in bucket loads!

Our dogs were raw fed when I was a kid, not because my parents thought it was the best, only because it was all we could afford! Tripe, offal scraps and bones were dirt cheap, supplemented with bunnies self-caught by the dogs, eggs from our hens and fruit/veg that we grew.

I've always continued with it. Had dogs of my own for 40 years now, all raw fed.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Of course raw food doesn't shorten lives!!! WTF?! Are you for real?! I'm just laughing now, good grief... Have you not read ANYTHING about feeding dogs?!


No my point was that your post alluded to raw feed doesn't shorten lives but says nothing to answer my question as to whether dry food extends life. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Hmm. I would love to see evidence.


I would love to see evidence of this scientifically proven remedy food thing you're talking about....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> No my point was that your post alluded to raw feed doesn't shorten lives but says nothing to answer my question as to whether dry food extends life. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


Have you any scientific evidence that dry food extends life?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> No my point was that your post alluded to raw feed doesn't shorten lives but says nothing to answer my question as to whether dry food extends life. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


A kibble fed dog may live until 18 and a raw fed dog may die at 2. And vice versa. Just like a chain-smoking drinker who never eats any fruit or veg can live to 80+ and a clean living soul could die young.

Of course, a good diet can help promote health and longevity, but it isn't the only factor.

As I've mentioned throughout the thread, all my dogs have been raw fed. I've lost some young, and others have reached ripe ages. Current little dog is 14 and is fighting fit.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Actually I'm all about dogs being scavengers


Yep, that's why mine get a few suitable scraps along with their raw, they love having a bit of this & that, but they're just as happy to polish off a bowl of RMBs


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I would love to see evidence of this scientifically proven remedy food thing you're talking about....


I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.


Well they are hardly going to tell you "sorry but our food has been linked to kidney failure or an increased incidence of cancers" are they?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have you any scientific evidence that dry food extends life?


None that I have seen yet. That was why I asked whether raw food has any info.


----------



## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I was once told by a vet that GSD's (unlike many other breeds) create a great deal of the oil needed for coat internally and thereby do not need high oil levels in their food. Seemed to fit when dry food came about and, certainly, when I passed that info on to my customers their dogs appeared to benefit.


And did this vet have any idea how the dogs would generate this oil internally, without dietary fat? GSDs (and every other breed) will generate ALL of the lipids they need internally, from fatty acids supplied by their diet. This is very basic biology and I would seriously question a vet who did not know this 
In answer to your original question, I tried feeding my dog raw but unfortunately it didn't suit him. I decided to try raw because he has various food intolerances and I liked the idea of knowing exactly what he ate without having to look down the list of ingredients and try to guess what was making him ill this time.
He is now fed a good quality kibble and does well on it, but it has taken a long time to work out what he does or doesn't tolerate.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well they are hardly going to tell you "sorry but our food has been linked to kidney failure or an increased incidence of cancers" are they?


Neither would the butcher I would think.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Dimwit said:


> And did this vet have any idea how the dogs would generate this oil internally, without dietary fat? GSDs (and every other breed) will generate ALL of the lipids they need internally, from fatty acids supplied by their diet. This is very basic biology and I would seriously question a vet who did not know this
> In answer to your original question, I tried feeding my dog raw but unfortunately it didn't suit him. I decided to try raw because he has various food intolerances and I liked the idea of knowing exactly what he ate without having to look down the list of ingredients and try to guess what was making him ill this time.
> He is now fed a good quality kibble and does well on it, but it has taken a long time to work out what he does or doesn't tolerate.


Yes, that is the thing with dry food, it is finding one that suits your dog.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.


Catches on?  You make it sound like some kind of new age fad that has only just come in.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Catches on?  You make it sound like some kind of new age fad that has only just come in.


"...gather pace..." is what I said.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


I think you have been given a reason, surely? Kibble has worked brilliantly for your dogs, which is great, but it hasn't worked for other dogs, who have benefitted from raw.

The problem is that people can get so keen on their preferred type of dog-food that it is hard to accept that other types can benefit other dogs. I've been given grief from people who recommend a specific brand of kibble that is 'the best' - they imply I'm not doing 'the best' for my dog by not feeding it...ignoring the fact that I tried that very same kibble and she either wouldn't eat it or threw it up again. I've also had similar comments from raw enthusiasts, though she had the same reaction to raw. When I fed my previous dog raw, I had people trying to get me to go back to kibble - again, ignoring the fact that he did poorly on various kibbles and brilliantly on raw.

You don't appear to have a problem with someone trying several different types of kibble until they find the right one for their dog. So why would it be a problem if someone tries raw for their dog? It's all about what is best for your dog.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Neither would the butcher I would think.


But you suggested contacting the nutritional department of manufacturers for proof. I'm asking what proof they are likely to give you and of what?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@ouesi

Isn't this one of the dog snobs 'how to cause a shit storm on a dog forum' topics?


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> @ouesi
> 
> Isn't this one of the dog snobs 'how to cause a shit storm on a dog forum' topics?


Why yes... it is...

:Cigarenguin


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> But you suggested contacting the nutritional department of manufacturers for proof. I'm asking what proof they are likely to give you and of what?


Exactly. We also have to remember that these kibble companies are businesses, are they really going to tell us anything that will damage their turnover?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> I think you have been given a reason, surely? Kibble has worked brilliantly for your dogs, which is great, but it hasn't worked for other dogs, who have benefitted from raw.
> 
> The problem is that people can get so keen on their preferred type of dog-food that it is hard to accept that other types can benefit other dogs. I've been given grief from people who recommend a specific brand of kibble that is 'the best' - they imply I'm not doing 'the best' for my dog by not feeding it...ignoring the fact that I tried that very same kibble and she either wouldn't eat it or threw it up again. I've also had similar comments from raw enthusiasts, though she had the same reaction to raw. When I fed my previous dog raw, I had people trying to get me to go back to kibble - again, ignoring the fact that he did poorly on various kibbles and brilliantly on raw.
> 
> You don't appear to have a problem with someone trying several different types of kibble until they find the right one for their dog. So why would it be a problem if someone tries raw for their dog? It's all about what is best for your dog.


It isn't a problem, just curious as to what reasons were behind the raw food choice.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Why yes... it is...
> 
> :Cigarenguin


Only for those with a mind to cause a storm. For others is about 'informed' decisions I guess.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> @ouesi
> 
> Isn't this one of the dog snobs 'how to cause a shit storm on a dog forum' topics?


And you know what comes next don't you?

A thread on you know who and his training methods :Shifty bound to run to 20 pages if it doesn't get locked first of course.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Exactly. We also have to remember that these kibble companies are businesses, are they really going to tell us anything that will damage their turnover?


It would cost them if they didn't tell you the truth and could be proven against wouldn't it? I would argue that lying would not be in their long term interest.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> And you know what comes next don't you?
> 
> A thread on you know who and his training methods :Shifty bound to run to 20 pages if it doesn't get locked first of course.


That's an idea.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes, that is the thing with dry food, it is finding one that suits your dog.


Hahahahaha, love the way you've ignored the initial sentence from @Dimwit


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> And you know what comes next don't you?
> 
> A thread on you know who and his training methods :Shifty bound to run to 20 pages if it doesn't get locked first of course.


Ah yes I wonder when our little friend with his Carlsberg dog will turn up :Hilarious


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Thanks all for such passionate responses.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> It would cost them if they didn't tell you the truth and could be proven against wouldn't it? I would argue that lying would not be in their long term interest.


However neither would them telling you the debatable ingredients they use would it?

Purina is often advertised as a fav food but when one looks at the ingredients it's really not that great.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Haven't read the whole thread but will throw our experience of Raw in..

We started Raw in August 2013 with Willow (our only dog at the time) .. We really gave it a good go, started basic & built on it etc. The start of 2014 saw her skin on her legs go down hill.. by May she looked like this.. 








By which point I'd gone back to basics (chicken & fish) incase it was an allergy to something I'd introduced. The vet fully supported our raw feeding. We ended up on Apoquel too. 
We doubted our raw decision as we saw raw as a healthier alternative & something that would help her skin (we struggled with itching etc) but yet here she was looking worse than ever and the raw wasn't exactly making a difference in her skin. We don't think raw caused this in any way shape or form but the fact that it didn't help prevent this or even going back to basics help make it better really made us think was raw actually the best diet for her. But yet we still hated the idea of all the crap in some kibbles. 
We then got a puppy, I was distraught at working out %'s / weights for a growing pup, paranoid I'd do it wrong and it be my fault if he didn't develop properly etc. After a few months of juggling basic raw for 1 & trying to balance out a diet for a growing pup.. I gave in. 
I researched quality kibbles and onto Millies Wolfheart they went until we got a 3rd dog.. With 3 I tried a cheaper alternative 'grain free country kibble' & all 3 do really well on it. 
Would I go back to raw? No, 'I don't need to fix what isn't broken' mentality. & the easiness of kibble fits our lifestyle to a tee at the mo  they still get raw chicken wings though & their teeth are lovely 

I am jealous of everyone else's raw experiences as I really love the idea of raw, the variety etc but it just didnt suit our life. I have since looked back into it now the puppy isn't a puppy, but for 3 27kg+ dogs from a supplier - the cost is way more than kibble anyway so it isn't justified when they're doing well as they are  plus I sold my 2 extra freezers when we moved house


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

I feed home cooked although my dogs do get raw chicken wings/necks feet to clean their teeth. Occasionally I give them a meal of Acana grain free kibble mainly because that's what they'll get when they stay in kennels!


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahahaha, love the way you've ignored the initial sentence from @Dimwit


Me too


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> However neither would them telling you the debatable ingredients they use would it?
> 
> Purina is often advertised as a fav food but when one looks at the ingredients it's really not that great.





JenSteWillow said:


> Haven't read the whole thread but will throw our experience of Raw in..
> 
> We started Raw in August 2013 with Willow (our only dog at the time) .. We really gave it a good go, started basic & built on it etc. The start of 2014 saw her skin on her legs go down hill.. by May she looked like this..
> View attachment 269438
> ...


Yep... it is all about the health of your dog and personal choice I guess


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Dimwit said:


> Me too


I can assure you it was intentional


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I can assure you it was intentional


Hahaha, I don't doubt it for a second .... just shows how much 'advice' is given with no real understanding of what has actually been said


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Hahaha, I don't doubt it for a second .... just shows how much 'advice' is given with no real understanding of what has actually been said


Quite.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Worth a read although it is based on the US

http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/11/new-report-exposes-dangerousunhealthy-pet-food/

*Cornucopia News*
*New Report Exposes Dangerous/Unhealthy Pet Food*
November 18th, 2015
Decoding Pet Food Labels: Avoiding Harmful Ingredients for Dogs and Cats










A new report sheds light on serious problems in pet food industry regulations and how specific loopholes allow for the use of questionable ingredients that could negatively impact companion animal health. Issued by The Cornucopia Institute, a non-profit food/farm policy research group, the report accuses some brands of using cheap ingredients, carcinogenic additives, and preservatives that are bad for long-term pet health, as well as attempting to intentionally deceive consumers with pet food labels.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Worth a read although it is based on the US
> 
> http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/11/new-report-exposes-dangerousunhealthy-pet-food/
> 
> ...


IF, there is any real basis for this then I feel certain that the companies concerned will respond. Incidentally, does anyone know what the RSPCA feed?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Did a five second trawl on the web and found my answer.... http://shop.rspca.org.uk/pet-food-accessories-wildlife/dog/dog-food-treats.html

Thanks anyway.


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Having read this thread, I have found TONS of evidence of the benefits of raw feeding, and am quite tempted to try it out myself, so I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for as it all seems to be here- many owners finding that their dog's do better on raw food. Trouble is I have a teeny tiny freezer  and no space for another.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> IF, there is any real basis for this then I feel certain that the companies concerned will respond. Incidentally, does anyone know what the RSPCA feed?


I would imagine, as the local branches of the RSPCA are run independently from Head Office, that it will vary from location to location, their choice will be based on overall costs & availability, & they may rely heavily on food donated by the general public as well, like many small rescues do.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Did a five second trawl on the web and found my answer.... http://shop.rspca.org.uk/pet-food-accessories-wildlife/dog/dog-food-treats.html
> 
> Thanks anyway.


Just because they sell it in their shop doesn't mean that is what they feed. In my experience most rescues feed donated food or if they are lucky some get an arrangement with a particular manufacturer to supply them with food for a set period of time in return for publicity/giving the new owners a sample to get them started in the hope they will stick with it. For instance one of mine came from Many Tears when they had such an arrangement with Burns, they sang the praises of Burns quite a lot on their website and gave us a bag of it when we collected him.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.


You haven't done it with the Dry Food Manufacturers either, apparently, despite the fact that you're recommending dry food to your Customers.

Maybe you're here so that others can do the legwork for you?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Did a five second trawl on the web and found my answer.... http://shop.rspca.org.uk/pet-food-accessories-wildlife/dog/dog-food-treats.html
> 
> Thanks anyway.


The Higher Welfare looks ok, but wouldn't buy the complete Adult food, first ingredient being rice..
However, as Rottie says, they do get donations in food. I don't think basing what a rescue feed is the best idea.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

KatieandOliver said:


> Having read this thread, I have found TONS of evidence of the benefits of raw feeding, and am quite tempted to try it out myself, so I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for as it all seems to be here- many owners finding that their dog's do better on raw food. Trouble is I have a teeny tiny freezer  and no space for another.


I am only looking for opinions.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

KatieandOliver said:


> Having read this thread, I have found TONS of evidence of the benefits of raw feeding, and am quite tempted to try it out myself, so I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for as it all seems to be here- many owners finding that their dog's do better on raw food. Trouble is I have a teeny tiny freezer  and no space for another.


How big is your dog? I only use one drawer for Muttly, gives me about 2 months of food


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> I would imagine, as the local branches of the RSPCA are run independently from Head Office, that it will vary from location to location, their choice will be based on overall costs & availability, & they may rely heavily on food donated by the general public as well, like many small rescues do.


http://shop.rspca.org.uk/pet-food-accessories-wildlife/dog/dog-food-treats.html


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Then why are you still winding people up by suggesting they should be feeling their dogs kibble when they have found raw food to suit them better? I don't understand what you're trying to do.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> The Higher Welfare looks ok, but wouldn't buy the complete Adult food, first ingredient being rice..
> However, as Rottie says, they do get donations in food. I don't think basing what a rescue feed is the best idea.


It's the RSPCA. If they are not experts in their field then who is I wonder. I think they are pretty well trusted for advice in general.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.


"If" raw food feeding gathers pace? 
Personally, more of my dog training friends feed raw than feed kibble. 
I don't know many informed dog people who aren't at least aware of the benefits of raw feeding. Which frankly, makes it more than a little scary that you are advising owners on what to feed their dogs without even knowing the first thing about raw.

No, it's not for everyone, me for example, I do like the convenience of kibble, and my current dogs do so well on anything I put in front of them, I'm just not motivated to let go of that convenience. But I'm aware enough of the benefits that I make an effort to give them raw periodically.

As I said earlier, dogs are scavengers, they need variety. Raw is a varied diet. Kibble is not, especially not if the dog is getting the same brand, same "flavor" every single meal of their life. We do switch out between kibbles also. Plus I usually top their kibble with whatever leftovers we have that are suitable.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

KatieandOliver said:


> Then why are you still winding people up by suggesting they should be feeling their dogs kibble when they have found raw food to suit them better? I don't understand what you're trying to do.


I Haven't suggested anything at all, just asked a question. Please see first post.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> "If" raw food feeding gathers pace?
> Personally, more of my dog training friends feed raw than feed kibble.
> I don't know many informed dog people who aren't at least aware of the benefits of raw feeding. Which frankly, makes it more than a little scary that you are advising owners on what to feed their dogs without even knowing the first thing about raw.
> 
> ...


I have advised nothing on this thread.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> How big is your dog? I only use one drawer for Muttly, gives me about 2 months of food


He is a puppy, currently 1.85 kg as an adult he will probably reach 4-5kg, though I may have moved to a bigger place by then but can't guarantee it.

I have one of those freezers that come inside a fridge above the fridge - not sure of temperature or whether it would be suitable, what do you think?


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> It's the RSPCA. If they are not experts in their field then who is I wonder. I think they are pretty well trusted for advice in general.


What I mean't was, they are a charity, a lot of the dogs they bring in are sick, injured, malnourished and any food is good to a dog that has been starved! They don't have the money to give all their residents the best and they do rely on donations of whatever that may be.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> What I mean't was, they are a charity, a lot of the dogs they bring in are sick, injured, malnourished and any food is good to a dog that has been starved! They don't have the money to give all their residents the best and they do rely on donations of whatever that may be.


..... "RSPCA dog food ... Formulated by RSPCA experts and* as used in our animal centres*. "


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> It's the RSPCA. If they are not experts in their field then who is I wonder. I think they are pretty well trusted for advice in general.


Experts in what field? What advice could they be trusted to give? Are you suggesting they are qualified to advise on nutrition & if so what basis do you have for this?


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I Haven't suggested anything at all, just asked a question. Please see first post.


No, you can't say all you have in this thread about raw feed being inferior to kibble and then pretend you just asked a question and refer me to your op, as though everything you've said afterwards doesn't count.

I don't know why I'm being drawn into this... Oliver hasn't even tried raw. But I know that our ignorance of dog food until Max's later years and the kibble he was fed on very likely contributed to his developing diabetes. The vet knew what we fed him and didn't suggest changing it, it wasn't until we went to a specialist pet shop where a member of staff educated us that we changed his food. I think it is awful that low grade kibbles are advertised on the TV as good for dogs. Though I suppose it's no different with human food.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Experts in what field? What advice could they be trusted to give? Are you suggesting they are qualified to advise on nutrition & if so what basis do you have for this?


Perhaps that is a question that you should pose to the Royal Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. I am not qualified to answer.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Experts in what field? Animal rescue? They have Vets yes, but they are not 'supervets'


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

KatieandOliver said:


> No, you can't say all you have in this thread about raw feed being inferior to kibble and then pretend you just asked a question and refer me to your op, as though everything you've said afterwards doesn't count.
> 
> I don't know why I'm being drawn into this... Oliver hasn't even tried raw. But I know that our ignorance of dog food until Max's later years and the kibble he was fed on very likely contributed to his developing diabetes. The vet knew what we fed him and didn't suggest changing it, it wasn't until we went to a specialist pet shop where a member of staff educated us that we changed his food. I think it is awful that low grade kibbles are advertised on the TV as good for dogs. Though I suppose it's no different with human food.


Please show me where I have said that raw food is inferior to kibble. Quote for me please.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Experts in what field? Animal rescue? They have Vets yes, but they are not 'supervets'


Again, please direct your question to the RSPCA as to why they call themselves experts.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

OMGGGG why does this keep happening!!? This was a one pager a few hours ago! Then I go and do some 'WORK' and now its at 8 pages


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps that is a question that you should pose to the Royal Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. I am not qualified to answer.


But I didn't make a statement about them, you did.

You posted that they were 'experts in their field' .... I asked what field this was? You used them as an example in a thread about nutrition so I asked you if you were suggesting they be asked advice regarding nutrition & on what you based this assumption on .... nothing about claims the RSPCA themselves had made .... keep up!


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

KatieandOliver said:


> He is a puppy, currently 1.85 kg as an adult he will probably reach 4-5kg, though I may have moved to a bigger place by then but can't guarantee it.
> 
> I have one of those freezers that come inside a fridge above the fridge - not sure of temperature or whether it would be suitable, what do you think?


Like just a small compartment in a fridge?


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Please show me where I have said that raw food is inferior to kibble. Quote for me please.


Ooooh you have more than implied it many times.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I have advised nothing on this thread.


You have advised your GSD owning customers to feed them a food with less oil did you not? 
That's advising dog owners on what food to feed.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Hanwombat said:


> OMGGGG why does this keep happening!!? This was a one pager a few hours ago! Then I go and do some 'WORK' and now its at 8 pages


I guess it is all about informed choices for people and their animals. I am all for that.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> ..... "RSPCA dog food ... Formulated by RSPCA experts and* as used in our animal centres*. "


I don't think a rescue would be the go to place for dietary advice for most people. They have their own brand of dog food which they sell to make money just like any other business does. Every food manufacturer will tell you they have experts helping to formulate their wonderful food. We all have to do our own research and make up our own minds what is best for our pets. Personally what the RSPCA feed or recommend would not be on my list of reading material


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Please show me where I have said that raw food is inferior to kibble. Quote for me please.


Here:


DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> You have advised your GSD owning customers to feed them a food with less oil did you not?
> That's advising dog owners on what food to feed.


I think some people can't keep up with their posts!


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> You have advised your GSD owning customers to feed them a food with less oil did you not?
> That's advising dog owners on what food to feed.


That was imparting to GSD owners what was advised to me.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Like just a small compartment in a fridge?


Yeah. I have frozen chicken in there that I boil and cut into treats for him, and I could live without freezing any food for myself.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Here:


Yes, it does intrigue me. That was why I asked the question in the first instance.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> I think some people can't keep up with their posts!


So convince me of the benefits of raw and I will take it into consideration.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I've had a quick look as 8 pages is quite a lot for my simple mind to read 

But here is what I can say...

I feed both Raw, wet and dry. They have wet food in their kongs whilst I'm a work.. they're on kibble 4 days a week and raw 3 days a week.. why? Because I haven't got the space for another freezer so can't do DIY raw, so I buy Nutriment from just down the road. I'd feed full raw otherwise as one of my dogs used to have bad anal gland issues but now as she is has raw 3 days a week they're so so much better! The kibble is good quality also.. I am trying to faze out kibble though and would make a few trips to the pet shop weekly as my other dog, I am awaiting a allergics test result and from what comes of that I will proceed as many dry food do contain more than one meat - not all of them though.

Also... dry food does not clean teeth.. at all.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So convince me of the benefits of raw and I will take it into consideration.


Do your own bloody research!
Because if anything that this thread has said is, Raw is no doubt a good thing to feed, but it will not suit every dog or owner. That's up to YOU to decide.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So convince me of the benefits of raw and I will take it into consideration.


Hahahahaha, how about convincing me that you can back up your statements (rather than just realise how silly they are then ignore them) or actually demonstrate you have a bit of knowledge regarding nutrition (seeing as you feel qualified to give out advice)


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So convince me of the benefits of raw and I will take it into consideration.


These are the benefits for my dogs but of course might not be for others

Less waste material comes out the other end making it easier to pick up.
Less smelly wind.
Less scratching and skin irritation.
Better behaviour from my rottie who is horrid on kibble.
More variety which they enjoy.
More satisfaction particularly after a chomp on a nice bone or carcass.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> That was imparting to GSD owners what was advised to me.


It's still advice.
Advice you're clearly not qualified to give.

My vet and I have a great relationship and she is happy for me to research any advice she shares with me or will even give me the research she is using to base her suggestions on. I don't just take her word for things, and she appreciates that I don't, and is happy to be questioned and have a discussion about things. 
So if I were to give advice on what to feed (which I don't, because I'm not qualified to do so), I would have my own foundational knowledge on what that advise is based on, not just repeating what was told to me without any real understanding of where that information came from.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahahaha, how about convincing me that you can back up your statements (rather than just realise how silly they are then ignore them) or actually demonstrate you have a bit of knowledge regarding nutrition (seeing as you feel qualified to give out advice)


Unnecessary I think.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> These are the benefits for my dogs but of course might not be for others
> 
> Less waste material comes out the other end making it easier to pick up.
> Less smelly wind.
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Unnecessary I think.


Then, yet again we disagree


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> It's still advice.
> Advice you're clearly not qualified to give.
> 
> My vet and I have a great relationship and she is happy for me to research any advice she shares with me or will even give me the research she is using to base her suggestions on. I don't just take her word for things, and she appreciates that I don't, and is happy to be questioned and have a discussion about things.
> So if I were to give advice on what to feed (which I don't, because I'm not qualified to do so), I would have my own foundational knowledge on what that advise is based on, not just repeating what was told to me without any real understanding of where that information came from.


According to the Forum header sticky no one here is qualified to give advice and certainly I have not directly given any. It is up to the owner to do their own research.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Then, yet again we disagree


I agree with that. lol


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess it is all about informed choices for people and their animals. I am all for that.


I love that you're all in favour of informed choices, particularly in view of the fact that you yourself, as a Purveyor of Dog Foods to the Public, have not done any research into raw feeding or indeed the kibble you're flogging to your Customers.


----------



## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Love personal preference, absolutely.
> Natural nutritional benefits?? Hmm not sure that just what the dog likes should be preferable to a balanced diet.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am sure he does. I meant, that, in a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes. It's a nice though that a dog would eat what it needs rather than just what it likes but I am mindful that if I served a plate of candy alongside a meat and vegetables meal to my children then I am pretty sure I know which one they would choose.
> 
> Responsible dog owners know this of course and make sure that their dog has a good balance.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I think I said 'advice' from a vet and yes, researching is different from just reading, agreed. Yet to hear any convincing reason for swapping to raw food though plus... raw food doesn't come with a label I guess.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes. I found this over the last twenty years. As pet owners we all do what we believe is best for our pets, after all, we love 'em. Some feed what has been fed since puppies, some change for various reasons. I guess that what intrigues me is why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I guess that if raw food feeding does gather pace that there will be more and more research to prove or dispel theories. Interesting times ahead perhaps. As far as proof for complete food I guess that contacting the nutrition departments for the manufacturer armed with specific questions would be a good place to start. I can't do that with the butcher.





Muttly said:


> How big is your dog? I only use one drawer for Muttly, gives me about 2 months of food





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Please show me where I have said that raw food is inferior to kibble. Quote for me please.


Here you go, I have left all the quotes as they are, so nothing has been taken out of contexxt but I think your agenda is perfectly clear.[/QUOTE]


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I love that you're all in favour of informed choices, particularly in view of the fact that you yourself, as a Purveyor of Dog Foods to the Public, have not done any research into raw feeding or indeed the kibble you're flogging to your Customers.


Do you know that for sure? This thread is based on a single question not a suggestion of any kind.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So convince me of the benefits of raw and I will take it into consideration.


Have you considered getting off your backside and doing the research into raw yourself?


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> ..... "RSPCA dog food ... Formulated by RSPCA experts and* as used in our animal centres*. "


I'd be interested to know more about this, it's rather a vague statement from an organisation that is pretty well versed in the making of vague statements, especially seeing as HQ is run as a separate entity to local branches- do they provide all branches with food, or just some, do they have to pay for the food or is it gratis?

It just seems like a very magnanamous gesture from an organisation which generally prefers to squirrel its assets away for itself.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> It's the RSPCA. If they are not experts in their field then who is I wonder. I think they are pretty well trusted for advice in general.


I wouldn't call the RSPCA experts in anything, least of all nutrition. Never rated them and never will.

I much prefer to support local rescues rather than these money spinners but that's just me.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> ..... "RSPCA dog food ... Formulated by RSPCA experts and* as used in our animal centres*. "


It could be porridge for all we know.


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

KatieandOliver said:


> Yeah. I have frozen chicken in there that I boil and cut into treats for him, and I could live without freezing any food for myself.


Um, not sure that will be enough room really. But it's really if you can see if it can work. If you have a local supplier, like weekly, then you could get away with only holding small amounts yeah


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

KatieandOliver said:


> Here you go, I have left all the quotes as they are, so nothing has been taken out of contexxt but I think your agenda is perfectly clear.


[/QUOTE]

I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. On this forum there is a propensity for some to be driven toward raw food. I am interested to know why this is. I want to be convinced one way or the other as I am certain are many others. Points I have raised or arguments I have put are nothing more than to obtain more convincing argument.

If, as a result of being convinced, I end up selling raw meat because it is better then so be it. Not a problem. But I think that a well informed choice is better than just what seems popular, wherever that may lead.

Hope this helps and refreshes the topic back to the original question asked.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> It could be porridge for all we know.


Ask them. Not for me to say.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Go here: www.google.co.uk then type in 'why raw feed dogs' or something similar.

Some raw feeders on here have answered you, to be met with silly responses. So you're best off researching yourself.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> According to the Forum header sticky no one here is qualified to give advice and certainly I have not directly given any. It is up to the owner to do their own research.


Telling GSD owners to feed a food with less oil IS giving direct advice to dog owners.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> That was imparting to GSD owners what was advised to me.


The quality of advice ranges from the very good to the very bad, which is why not just taking things on face value & actually making an effort to sift through & draw your own conclusions rather than parroting what others say as verbatim.

Speaking of parrots......

I was once advised to try skydiving without a parachute by a parrot.

I thought to myself 'well, I hate the bother of research, & as a parrot can fly pretty well, he must be an expert, ergo, he must be right'.

So out of the plane I merrily jumped & was most surprised when I splattered all over the place & wound up stone dead.

Moral of the story: do your research.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Telling GSD owners to feed a food with less oil IS giving direct advice to dog owners.


Please read the post that concerns this. I realise that it might be useful to you to quote out of context but it doesn't inform the forum users or really reflect the nature of what was said, when or why.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Alright. Here's another personal opinion. 

I like that my animals are fed a biologically appropriate diet which they are designed to eat and that the enjoy/ 

Dogs not designed to eat kibble nor are cats. It's a man-made and mass produced food choice. 

It's not the food I would choose for my pets. They always look so satisfied after chewing down on quail or rabbit or whatever is on the menu today.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> The quality of advice ranges from the very good to the very bad, which is why not just taking things on face value & actually making an effort to sift through & draw your own conclusions rather than parroting what others say as verbatim.
> 
> Speaking of parrots......
> 
> ...


I can see your point but this still does not answer my question but, rather, highlights my point. That is, informed choice is better than believing something parrot fashion. The very reason I asked experienced forum users their opinions.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Sweety said:


> It could be porridge for all we know.


Or even.....

POPCORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN!


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

My vet had never heard of the raw food I feed Cooper. In fact he was pretty surprised we even fed him raw. There definitely should be more promotion of it out there. Now my local pet shop supplies it all, and even though I don't like going there too much, Pets At Home do supply it too which is pretty handy as opposed to ordering it from the internet.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. *On this forum there is a propensity for some to be driven toward raw food. *I am interested to know why this is. I want to be convinced one way or the other as I am certain are many others. Points I have raised or arguments I have put are nothing more than to obtain more convincing argument.

If, as a result of being convinced, I end up selling raw meat because it is better then so be it. Not a problem. But I think that a well informed choice is better than just what seems popular, wherever that may lead.

Hope this helps and refreshes the topic back to the original question asked.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the bolded part is true. I think when most people ask questions they are advised to look into it and to do their own research. Sometimes people new to raw feeding can get a bit over excited/enthusiastic about it and suggest it is a "cure all" and the absolute best/only way to feed but generally people are told the best food for their dog is the food that best suits their dog and fits their lifestyle and budget. I've advised a few people on here not to jump straight in and to do a lot more research because they haven't actually got a clue what it involves.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Muttly has his booster next month and I had to fill in a form about his lifestyle. What do I feed him? was a question, so ill be interested in what they think


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> My vet had never heard of the raw food I feed Cooper. In fact he was pretty surprised we even fed him raw. There definitely should be more promotion of it out there. Now my local pet shop supplies it all, and even though I don't like going there too much, Pets At Home do supply it too which is pretty handy as opposed to ordering it from the internet.


I can see that being handy yes.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Please read the post that concerns this. I realise that it might be useful to you to quote out of context but it doesn't inform the forum users or really reflect the nature of what was said, when or why.


Oh, your posts are there in black and white for all forum users to see for themselves


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. *On this forum there is a propensity for some to be driven toward raw food. *I am interested to know why this is. I want to be convinced one way or the other as I am certain are many others. Points I have raised or arguments I have put are nothing more than to obtain more convincing argument.
> 
> If, as a result of being convinced, I end up selling raw meat because it is better then so be it. Not a problem. But I think that a well informed choice is better than just what seems popular, wherever that may lead.
> 
> Hope this helps and refreshes the topic back to the original question asked.


I don't think the bolded part is true. I think when most people ask questions they are advised to look into it and to do their own research. Sometimes people new to raw feeding can get a bit over excited/enthusiastic about it and suggest it is a "cure all" and the absolute best/only way to feed but generally people are told the best food for their dog is the food that best suits their dog and fits their lifestyle and budget. I've advised a few people on here not to jump straight in and to do a lot more research because they haven't actually got a clue what it involves.[/QUOTE]

Arguably, it could be their own research that 'drives' them could it not?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Oh, your posts are there in black and white for all forum users to see for themselves


Indeed. ;-)


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Muttly has his booster next month and I had to fill in a form about his lifestyle. What do I feed him? was a question, so ill be interested in what they think


Yes, that's the kind of thing I am interested in too.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Oh, your posts are there in black and white for all forum users to see for themselves


Oh my @ouesi or should I say Sherlock?

I did not see that. Bravo :Cigar


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I can see that being handy yes.


Can I just politely ask, why don't you stock raw food as well as dry, when there is clearly quite a high demand for it? It doesn't matter if you like it or not, other people do so I am a little confused why you need to be convinced it is better or worse than anything else?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I don't think the bolded part is true. I think when most people ask questions they are advised to look into it and to do their own research. Sometimes people new to raw feeding can get a bit over excited/enthusiastic about it and suggest it is a "cure all" and the absolute best/only way to feed but generally people are told the best food for their dog is the food that best suits their dog and fits their lifestyle and budget. I've advised a few people on here not to jump straight in and to do a lot more research because they haven't actually got a clue what it involves.


Arguably, it could be their own research that 'drives' them could it not?[/QUOTE]

Drives who to what? Also bear in mind that @SixStar who has already replied on this thread stating why raw food is the best food for her dogs has spent hours drawing up and updating the dry and wet food indexes on here - why would she bother doing that if she just wanted to push everyone into feeding raw?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> Can I just politely ask, why don't you stock raw food as well as dry, when there is clearly quite a high demand for it? It doesn't matter if you like it or not, other people do so I am a little confused why you need to be convinced it is better or worse than anything else?


I may do so yet.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Arguably, it could be their own research that 'drives' them could it not?


Drives who to what? Also bear in mind that @SixStar who has already replied on this thread stating why raw food is the best food for her dogs has spent hours drawing up and updating the dry and wet food indexes on here - why would she bother doing that if she just wanted to push everyone into feeding raw?[/QUOTE]

If I look into something and like what I see, with good reason, then it is likely I would be driven toward making a choice about it. I have read the index.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Drives who to what? Also bear in mind that @SixStar who has already replied on this thread stating why raw food is the best food for her dogs has spent hours drawing up and updating the dry and wet food indexes on here - why would she bother doing that if she just wanted to push everyone into feeding raw?


If I look into something and like what I see, with good reason, then it is likely I would be driven toward making a choice about it. I have read the index.[/QUOTE]

Yes I know you have read it as I saw your comment on it but had you noticed who wrote it?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> If I look into something and like what I see, with good reason, then it is likely I would be driven toward making a choice about it. I have read the index.


Yes I know you have read it as I saw your comment on it but had you noticed who wrote it?[/QUOTE]

Does it matter? There are nearly 700 members on this forum and all but a handful have so far not given their opinion.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes I know you have read it as I saw your comment on it but had you noticed who wrote it?


Does it matter? There are nearly 700 members on this forum and all but a handful have so far not given their opinion.[/QUOTE]

Does it matter? Of course it matters - you suggested this forum has a propensity to drive people towards raw feeding - I'm saying I don't think that is true and using the wet and dry food indexes as an example of why I think you are wrong as they were drawn up and are updated and questions answered by a member who feeds her own dogs raw so it is an example of how the forum doesn't just push people towards raw feeding


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Plus, not that it necessarily relates to the question directly but, if raw meat does have benefits then why do humans cook their meat before they eat it.


FWIW, many of your questions are leading in that they ask about all the things that are "wrong" with raw - as above. It makes it sound like you're doubtful of the benefits, or even that it's a healthy choice as in your posts to @Muttly ...

In answer to your question above. The reason dogs don't need their meat cooked like humans (though many humans do eat raw or mostly raw meat), is due to the difference in our digestive tract and digestive enzymes. 
My dogs regularly eat things that would make me violently ill. They find 3 day old rotting carcasses in the woods, nibble some meat off, and bring the bones home to chew on for days. 
They eat deer and bunny turds in the field, lick their own butts and privates, drink water straight from the river, and all sorts of things that I as a human cannot do without getting sick. 
Clearly our digestive systems are not the same, and dogs can handle a lot more than humans can. Clean, fresh, raw meat is definitely no problem for them.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Does it matter? There are nearly 700 members on this forum and all but a handful have so far not given their opinion.


Does it matter? Of course it matters - you suggested this forum has a propensity to drive people towards raw feeding - I'm saying I don't think that is true and using the wet and dry food indexes as an example of why I think you are wrong as they were drawn up and are updated and questions answered by a member who feeds her own dogs raw so it is an example of how the forum doesn't just push people towards raw feeding [/QUOTE]

You have quoted me incorrectly yet again.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> FWIW, many of your questions are leading in that they ask about all the things that are "wrong" with raw - as above. It makes it sound like you're doubtful of the benefits, or even that it's a healthy choice as in your posts to @Muttly ...
> 
> In answer to your question above. The reason dogs don't need their meat cooked like humans (though many humans do eat raw or mostly raw meat), is due to the difference in our digestive tract and digestive enzymes.
> My dogs regularly eat things that would make me violently ill. They find 3 day old rotting carcasses in the woods, nibble some meat off, and bring the bones home to chew on for days.
> ...


Thanks for the human answer. My questions may seem leading but I really am looking for convincing argument for the benefits of raw over complete (if there are any of course.)


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Thanks for the human answer. My questions may seem leading but I really am looking for convincing argument for the benefits of raw over complete (if there are any of course.)


Let's flip it.

I am looking for a convincing argument for the benefits of complete over raw (if there are any or course).

Go ahead. I'll wait patiently for your answer


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Thanks for the human answer. My questions may seem leading but I really am looking for convincing argument for the benefits of raw over complete (if there are any of course.)


I don't think you're going to get a straightforward convincing argument. For one; everyone's opinions vary as to what works best for their dog, and two; you don't seem very open minded to those people's opinions.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> I don't think you're going to get a straightforward convincing argument. For one; everyone's opinions vary as to what works best for their dog, and two; you don't seem very open minded to those people's opinions.


I am open minded. Show me solid sound evidence and I will take a lot of notice. Wishywashy answers are not and, arguably, should not convince anyone when it comes to the health and welfare of their pet. That goes, whether they are my wishywashy answers or whoevers. That is why I suggested that the RSPCA might be deemed as reliable.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> *I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. On this forum there is a propensity for some to be driven toward raw food.* I am interested to know why this is. I want to be convinced one way or the other as I am certain are many others. Points I have raised or arguments I have put are nothing more than to obtain more convincing argument.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Does it matter? Of course it matters - you suggested this forum has a propensity to drive people towards raw feeding - I'm saying I don't think that is true and using the wet and dry food indexes as an example of why I think you are wrong as they were drawn up and are updated and questions answered by a member who feeds her own dogs raw so it is an example of how the forum doesn't just push people towards raw feeding


You have quoted me incorrectly yet again.[/QUOTE]

How have I quoted you incorrectly - your post above - the bit I put in bold is quite clear.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Why don't you show solid sound (unbiased) evidence that kibble is better than other choices?
I would also suggest that dental health was not a "wishy washy" answer.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You have quoted me incorrectly yet again.


How have I quoted you incorrectly - your post above - the bit I put in bold is quite clear.[/QUOTE]

That was not the post I questioned. I believe you have made an error. Please check.


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am open minded. Show me solid sound evidence and I will take a lot of notice. Wishywashy answers are not and, arguably, should not convince anyone when it comes to the health and welfare of their pet. That goes, whether they are my wishywashy answers or whoevers. That is why I suggested that the RSPCA might be deemed as reliable.


Can't you realilse there is no set-in-stone evidence for either kibble or raw feeding? People could be shown hard facts about one or the other and STILL perfer to feed their dog exactly what they prefer to feed them, and what works for them. You asked for our opinions and to try and convince you, but you do not want to be convinced.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Why don't you show solid sound (unbiased) evidence that kibble is better than other choices?
> I would also suggest that dental health was not a "wishy washy" answer.


Dental health was part of a good answer I think.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

And this evidence? 

Nicely ignored


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> Can't you realilse there is no set-in-stone evidence for either kibble or raw feeding? People could be shown hard facts about one or the other and STILL perfer to feed their dog exactly what they prefer to feed them, and what works for them. You asked for our opinions and to try and convince you, but you do not want to be convinced.


Is there no evidence? If so then the question is answered. Others on here don't seem to believe that there is no evidence though. So surelt their reasoning must be based on something?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> And this evidence?
> 
> Nicely ignored


Sorry StormyThai... that evidence can be sought from the manufacturer's nutritionists I believe.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> Can't you realilse there is no set-in-stone evidence for either kibble or raw feeding? People could be shown hard facts about one or the other and STILL perfer to feed their dog exactly what they prefer to feed them, and what works for them. You asked for our opinions and to try and convince you, but you do not want to be convinced.


Yeah I do or I would not have asked and spent several hours responding to multiple forum users. So you are saying it is the owner's preference and what appears to work?


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Is there no evidence? If so then the question is answered. Others on here don't seem to believe that there is no evidence though. So surelt their reasoning must be based on something?


Well personally my reasoning is based upon my experience . I researched it when we got our puppy, and I found pro's and con's for both raw and dry, but decieded to keep with the raw. As I mentioned, we went back onto kibble and it did not have great effects, so we are back on raw. Simples. Others would likely have the complete opposite effect which means they would feed dry as it suits their dog better.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Sorry StormyThai... that evidence can be sought from the manufacturer's nutritionists I believe.


Right...

So you expect us to supply you with evidence to prove a raw diet is better than kibble (even tho you have been told time and time again that this is an individual dog/owner thing).
Yet you will not offer us the same in return?

I suggest you do your own research...I did not spend years researching canine nutrition to "prove" to anyone why I feed the diet I feed.


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yeah I do or I would not have asked and spent several hours responding to multiple forum users. So you are saying it is the owner's preference and what appears to work?


That's my opinion, yes. Both can be good, both can be bad, and it depends on much more than the black and white quesiton of just Dry or Raw?'.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Regarding people being pushed toward feeding raw, I have had plenty of experience of this* off* the forum, but absolutely no experience of being pushed *on* the forum. Recently, my dog appeared to develop an intolerance to her food, so I put a post on here asking for suggestions for a new diet, mentioning the kibbles and raw food I had tried in the past which had not agreed with her. Having encountered some rabid raw-food enthusiasts in the past, I felt a bit nervous and wondered what reaction I would get. *Not one person* tried to convince me to feed raw (or any other type of food). People listened to Bonnie's past history and current needs and made helpful suggestions; as a result, Bonnie is now on a food that suits her much better. I don't know who these people are who keep pushing raw food, but I'm on the forum every day & I haven't met them yet!


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Right...
> 
> So you expect us to supply you with evidence to prove a raw diet is better than kibble (even tho you have been told time and time again that this is an individual dog/owner thing).
> Yet you will not offer us the same in return?
> ...


If you spent years researching then you know that to question, question and question again is the only way to get near to what might be classed as evidence. I am certain you will know that. Like most others on here I asked a question which means something personal to me, that is, information to base choice upon. I cannot offer you the same in return because I have never given raw food to my dog.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> Regarding people being pushed toward feeding raw, I have had plenty of experience of this* off* the forum, but absolutely no experience of being pushed *on* the forum. Recently, my dog appeared to develop an intolerance to her food, so I put a post on here asking for suggestions for a new diet, mentioning the kibbles and raw food I had tried in the past which had not agreed with her. Having encountered some rabid raw-food enthusiasts in the past, I felt a bit nervous and wondered what reaction I would get. *Not one person* tried to convince me to feed raw (or any other type of food). People listened to Bonnie's past history and current needs and made helpful suggestions; as a result, Bonnie is now on a food that suits her much better. I don't know who these people are who keep pushing raw food, but I'm on the forum every day & I haven't met them yet!


Once again... I did not say that they are being pushed.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

CuddleMonster said:


> Regarding people being pushed toward feeding raw, I have had plenty of experience of this* off* the forum, but absolutely no experience of being pushed *on* the forum. Recently, my dog appeared to develop an intolerance to her food, so I put a post on here asking for suggestions for a new diet, mentioning the kibbles and raw food I had tried in the past which had not agreed with her. Having encountered some rabid raw-food enthusiasts in the past, I felt a bit nervous and wondered what reaction I would get. *Not one person* tried to convince me to feed raw (or any other type of food). People listened to Bonnie's past history and current needs and made helpful suggestions; as a result, Bonnie is now on a food that suits her much better. I don't know who these people are who keep pushing raw food, but I'm on the forum every day & I haven't met them yet!


Me either! All I've seen are people who tell you THEIR opinion and why they feed it. I asked lots of questions on here, looked through loads of blogs and websites and decided I would give it a go.
I will tell others that I think it's great, but I expect them to make their own decision.

Also, to be quite honest, I don't give a fudge what your feed your dog OP or even if you decide to sell raw.


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Me either! All I've seen are people who tell you THEIR opinion and why they feed it. I asked lots of questions on here, looked through loads of blogs and websites and decided I would give it a go.
> I will tell others that I think it's great, but I expect them to make their own decision.
> 
> *Also, to be quite honest, I don't give a fudge what your feed your dog OP or even if you decide to sell raw.*


Hear hear!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> because I have never given raw food to my dog.


What has that got to do with anything?

I asked for solid proof that kibble is better than raw...what you feed your dog is irrelevant.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Me either! All I've seen are people who tell you THEIR opinion and why they feed it. I asked lots of questions on here, looked through loads of blogs and websites and decided I would give it a go.
> I will tell others that I think it's great, but I expect them to make their own decision.
> 
> Also, to be quite honest, I don't give a fudge what your feed your dog OP or even if you decide to sell raw.


Maybe not but I suspect that there are a lot of dog owners on here who would like to know what the benefits are before they make a choice.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Maybe not but I suspect that there are a lot of dog owners on here who would like to know what the benefits are before they make a choice.


When they ask the questions they are usually offered opinions and experience but also advised to research thoroughly and take all the factors both for and against into consideration before making their own choice.


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## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

There are amny threads active right now talking abount raw/dry dog food. Just reading through them will give you an indication that it is down to person/dog preference.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Hmmmm so again we seem to have someone flaming.. I love kibble but I want to learn about why people feed raw ( you've been on this forum for less that 4 days and you've informed an opinion about raw feeding and the members) but I am going to rip to shreds everything you say about raw feeding.

Here is an idea @DogsandCatsShopCoUK go do your own research and work it out for yourself, there are literally 100's of threads on it , I would say you have little interest in this forum other than to flame... You have no knowledge of kibble but recommended it so why do any different with raw, just use your lack of knowledge to the same uses...


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Maybe not but I suspect that there are a lot of dog owners on here who would like to know what the benefits are before they make a choice.


There are yes, we get some every day pretty much. While having this debate on here most of the day I have actually been answering 2 other members about Raw, who are actually listening.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> What has that got to do with anything?
> 
> I asked for solid proof that kibble is better than raw...what you feed your dog is irrelevant.


But that was not my question in the first place. I am not here to sing praises of complete food but rather to find out the truth of raw feed from those who have tried it for those who are interested.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Hmmmm so again we seem to have someone flaming.. I love kibble but I want to learn about why people feed raw ( you've been on this forum for less that 4 days and you've informed an opinion about raw feeding and the members) but I am going to rip to shreds everything you say about raw feeding.
> 
> Here is an idea @DogsandCatsShopCoUK go do your own research and work it out for yourself I would say you have little interest in this forum other than to flame...


Is that the same as encouraging useful debate about subjects that matter to people. If so then guilty as charged.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yeah I do or I would not have asked and spent several hours responding to multiple forum users. So you are saying it is the owner's preference and what appears to work?


YES! That's what we are saying.

Everyone here lives with their own individual animals, understands these animals and cares for these animals (be they dogs, cats, ferrets or fish!) so they understand what works for said animals.

Some of us are long term raw feeders, others are just starting out and a several have tried raw and found it doesn't work for their particular dog.

What I don't agree with is the sugar coated bull that some companies try and spin to their unsuspecting customers, I would say Purina I am looking at you :Shifty.

My primitive LSG cannot seem to process kibble, and I have tried several it makes his poo awfully runny and the condition literally drops off of him. However, feed him raw and I have my big, well muscled, conditioned and fluffy Bear back and who has solid poop!

My Westie is 15 years old with excellent teeth, his never had a skin condition and is rarely at the Vets.

I am very careful about the things I put into and on my animals, I have always personally felt a lot of dog health issues is due to chemicals etc but that's a whole different thread and whole different debate


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> There are yes, we get some every day pretty much. While having this debate on here most of the day I have actually been answering 2 other members about Raw, who are actually listening.


You mean not asking too many questions? Cos, I have been listening.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> YES! That's what we are saying.
> 
> Everyone here lives with their own individual animals, understands these animals and cares for these animals (be they dogs, cats, ferrets or fish!) so they understand what works for said animals.
> 
> ...


So it's about one's belief then? Not necessarily any hard evidence?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Is that the same as encouraging useful debate about subjects that matter to people. If so then guilty as charged.


Yeah in your dreams.... You can wax lyrical all you want and try eloquently BS yourself out of corners, but the forum isn't for you to do free market research, get your thumb out of your backside and go read up yourself........ Again 100's of thread on it go read................. It's a simple matter of choice and what works that simple, go read,, try and educate yourself.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Now we are going round in circles - please don't become one of those annoying posters who says things then says they didn't and when their post is quoted say its been mis quoted. For the record you said



DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I have been polite all through this thread. My question was genuine, why feed raw? I am genuinely interested in everyone's comments and *despite being an advocate for dry food I have an open mind*.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes. I found this over the last twenty years. As pet owners we all do what we believe is best for our pets, after all, we love 'em. Some feed what has been fed since puppies, some change for various reasons. I guess that what intrigues me is* why move away from a scientifically proven controlled remedy feed and* *go to a feed that will vary in nutritional value / quality in every piece of meat given. It seems counter intuitive*.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Yeah in your dreams.... You can wax lyrical all you want and try eloquently BS yourself out of corners, but the forum isn't for you to do free market research, get your thumb out of your backside and go read up yourself........ Again 100's of thread on it go read................. It's a simple matter of choice and what works that simple, go read,, try and educate yourself.


Thank you for your response. It is very useful even if a little offensive.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Why don't you show solid sound (unbiased) evidence that kibble is better than other choices?
> I would also suggest that dental health was not a "wishy washy" answer.


I can't see how something like kibble can actually be good for teeth in all honesty, no matter how hard it is, how big the kibble size is, how grain free it is or natural it is, it's not a bone & it's not a toothbrush, it's a biscuit that becomes sticky & mushy when chewed & mixed with saliva.

Disclaimer: I am not saying kibble is the devil's work, it's just not my personal choice to feed it


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Now we are going round in circles - please don't become one of those annoying posters who says things then says they didn't and when their post is quoted say its been mis quoted. For the record you said


I am an advocate of dry food, I have said it several times but it doesn't mean that I am not open to being convinced otherwise.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Thanks for the human answer. My questions may seem leading but I really am looking for convincing argument for the benefits of raw over complete (if there are any of course.)


You said that...no one else. you!


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> You said that...no one else. you!


Yes.. and? What changes?


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am an advocate of dry food, I have said it several times but it doesn't mean that I am not open to being convinced otherwise.


Why do you prefer kibble?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> So it's about one's belief then? Not necessarily any hard evidence?


My hard evidence are both currently sat in front of me, they're both having whole (plucked) PMR ducks tonight for dinner 

Raw is what works best for my dogs, there is no 'scientifically proven remedy feed' in the land that could convince me otherwise.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> You said that...no one else. you!


I'm still waiting for my answer


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> Why do you prefer kibble?


Personal preference, convenience, consistency in nutrition and that my, friends and family dogs have been on it all their lives with no issues.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> I'm still waiting for my answer


Sorry Chi... lots of posts to answer. What was your question?


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Personal preference, convenience, consistency in nutrition and that my, friends and family dogs have been on it all their lives with no issues.


Ok, so not really any different to the majority of people's replies on here then about why they feed raw?


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Yes.. and? What changes?


OK intentionally obtuse it is then 

I don't know about anyone else but the writing style smells familiar too me


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> Ok, so not really any different to the majority of people's replies on here then about why they feed raw?


Other than consistency no.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Sorry Chi... lots of posts to answer. What was your question?


You answered it above. Kinda.

Out of interest, what breed do you own?


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Other than consistency no.


I'm fairly sure that the raw we feed is consistently nutritious?!


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am open minded. Show me solid sound evidence and I will take a lot of notice. Wishywashy answers are not and, arguably, should not convince anyone when it comes to the health and welfare of their pet. That goes, whether they are my wishywashy answers or whoevers. That is why I suggested that the RSPCA might be deemed as reliable.


Interesting...
Have you read your own answer for why you feed kibble?



DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Is that the same as encouraging useful debate about subjects that matter to people. If so then guilty as charged.


Are you here to debate the benefits of raw or to ask about them? Different purposes that will get different responses.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> You answered it above. Kinda.
> 
> Out of interest, what breed do you own?


None currently. Previously Border Collies, Jack Russells and Border Terriers.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Interesting...
> Have you read your own answer for why you feed kibble?
> 
> Are you here to debate the benefits of raw or to ask about them? Different purposes that will get different responses.


Both I guess.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> I'm fairly sure that the raw we feed is consistently nutritious?!


I am sure it is. But consistency doesn't stop there does it.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@DogsandCatsShopCoUK

What are your concerns regarding raw feeding?


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

You said;

_"Personal preference, convenience, consistency in nutrition and that my, friends and family dogs have been on it all their lives with no issues."_

So what other consistency is it that makes you prefer dry? I'm genuinely interested, because you are very quick to jump onto people who are giving the exact same reasons as you as to why they feed raw.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

The question at the beginning was straightforward enough and it always worries me a little when others get on the defensive for no apparent reason. It usually indicates that I have asked something someone doesn't want to answer or can't. I don't attack choice just ask the reason why a choice is made on raw over kibble.


Pappychi said:


> @DogsandCatsShopCoUK
> 
> What are your concerns regarding raw feeding?


I can't say that I necessarily have any. This thread could have gone a number of ways but primarily it has been an opportunity for promoters of raw feed to state the reasons why they choose that over dry food. Some have answered.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> You said;
> 
> _"Personal preference, convenience, consistency in nutrition and that my, friends and family dogs have been on it all their lives with no issues."_
> 
> So what other consistency is it that makes you prefer dry? I'm genuinely interested, because you are very quick to jump onto people who are giving the exact same reasons as you as to why they feed raw.


I would have thought that a food made to a consistent formula may have an advantage over raw food which can vary according to the animal's condition and nutrition that is being fed to your dog.


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> The question at the beginning was straightforward enough and it always worries me a little when others get on the defensive for no apparent reason. It usually indicates that I have asked something someone doesn't want to answer or can't. I don't attack choice just ask the reason why a choice is made on raw over kibble.
> 
> I can't say that I necessarily have any. *This thread could have gone a number of ways but primarily it has been an opportunity for promoters of raw feed to state the reasons why they choose that over dry food.* Some have answered.


Isn't that what you wanted?!? You came here asking why we feed raw, and the benefits of it to our pets? I don't think anyone is 'promoting' raw, just advising on it and informing you, and others reading, of our reasons and benefits to our pets.


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I would have thought that a food made to a consistent formula may have an advantage over raw food which can vary according to the animal's condition and nutrition that is being fed to your dog.


This is a struggle not to fall into a debate of this vs. that. We are not saying one is better than the other.

Just becuase the formula is consistant imo doesn't mean it is of a high quality. It could be consistantly shite then from you are saying!


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Your initial question was simple I guess and people replied, as I did here:



Muttly said:


> As Cleo said, it is individual choice. There is no saying anything is better, it's what suits you and your dog.
> 
> My reasons for going raw were:
> 
> ...


You then came along and instead of questioning it constructively, made a totally incorrect judgement here:



DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Love personal preference, absolutely.
> Natural nutritional benefits?? Hmm not sure that just what the dog likes should be preferable to a balanced diet.


Then after annoying me with that, you then say this:



DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am sure he does. I meant, that, in a pelleted food the dog has no choice but to have a balanced diet whereas with non-pelleted the dog will eat what it likes. It's a nice though that a dog would eat what it needs rather than just what it likes but I am mindful that if I served a plate of candy alongside a meat and vegetables meal to my children then I am pretty sure I know which one they would choose.
> 
> Responsible dog owners know this of course and make sure that their dog has a good balance.


Just seems like you are trying to wind people up.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> This is a struggle not to fall into a debate of this vs. that. We are not saying one is better than the other.
> 
> Just becuase the formula is consistant imo doesn't mean it is of a high quality. It could be consistantly shite then from you are saying!


Perhaps it is in some cases. Not for me to say.

In the U.S.A (where raw food is heavily being promoted) I am of the understanding that the cattle there are fed heavily on diets containing growth promotants (but also so are the people). Perhaps they have similar problems with their dry feed too? I don't know. However, the EU has much tighter controls and so does the same problem exist here? Again, I don't know.


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps it is in some cases. Not for me to say.
> 
> In the U.S.A (where raw food is heavily being promoted) I am of the understanding that the cattle there are fed heavily on diets containing growth promotants (but also so are the people). Perhaps they have similar problems with their dry feed too? I don't know. However, the EU has much tighter controls and so does the same problem exist here? Again, I don't know.


What do you think goes into dry food? It's not like there's a field of unicorns and fairies producing kibble.

Your reasons for preferring dry are no different to other people's opinions of preferring raw.


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps it is in some cases. Not for me to say.
> 
> In the U.S.A (where raw food is heavily being promoted) I am of the understanding that the cattle there are fed heavily on diets containing growth promotants (but also so are the people). Perhaps they have similar problems with their dry feed too? I don't know. However, the EU has much tighter controls and so does the same problem exist here? Again, I don't know.


If I had a business doing what you do, I think I would be taking a few courses on animal nutrition so I at least have a little idea of what I'm talking about.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Your initial question was simple I guess and people replied, as I did here:
> 
> You then came along and instead of questioning it constructively, made a totally incorrect judgement here:
> 
> ...


I am sorry you got annoyed, that was not my intention. I can understand you personalising what I said, however, the point was more general and not aimed at you specifically.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> If I had a business doing what you do, I think I would be taking a few courses on animal nutrition so I at least have a little idea of what I'm talking about.


My wife is American. I pretty much do know.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

SurfCFC said:


> What do you think goes into dry food? It's not like there's a field of unicorns and fairies producing kibble.
> 
> Your reasons for preferring dry are no different to other people's opinions of preferring raw.


 lol at fairies and unicorns. I would suggest that it depends on what dry food you are feeding.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> My wife is American. I pretty much do know.


Uh... No. You don't.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

You can get complete raw foods which are consistent if that is what the consumer wants.

For instance Natural Instinct

*By feeding Natural Instinct raw dog food, you can be confident that they're getting all the essential vitamins, minerals and proteins they need to live a healthy, active life. All our raw dog food is packed full of British meats and bone with added fruit, vegetables and supplements and frozen to retain all the natural goodness. Choosing a natural BARF diet gives your faithful friend the healthy dog food they need. Browse our raw dog food ranges below to find out more.*

This is one of my dog's favourites







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*Working Dog Chicken & Tripe*

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Availability: In Stock

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*Minimum orders of 5Kg. For full information, please *click here*.

*Description*
This is a very popular recipe within this range. Most dogs seem to love green tripe, so this product can be an excellent way to get an otherwise fussy dog to eat. Developed specifically for working dogs with an extra shot of vitamin C, this recipe helps support a healthy immune system and maintain healthy ligaments and joints.

1
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Details
Delivery
*Ingredients*
British chicken with bone (45%) British beef green tripe (40%), carrot, apple, butternut squash, spinach, sea kelp, Scottish salmon oil

*Additives*
Vitamin C (50mg per kg)

*Analysis*
Moisture 69.7%, Protein 13.6%, Fat 11.6%, Fibre 2.8%, Calcium 0.6%, Phosphorus 0.4%, Sodium 0.1%, Inorganic Matter 2.7%

*Product Information*
A frozen complete and balanced raw food for working dogs (available in 1kg or 2x500g portions)


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> My wife is American. I pretty much do know.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> lol at fairies and unicorns. I would suggest that it depends on what dry food you are feeding.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315145/Is-pet-food-poisoning-dogs.html

^ This is an interesting article and may answer a few of your questions whilst no exactly 'scientific' it does raise some interesting points.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Uh... No. You don't.


I beg to differ. Perhaps that is for another thread.


----------



## SurfCFC (Dec 16, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> lol at fairies and unicorns. I would suggest that it depends on what dry food you are feeding.


You're right, it would do. Same with anything really, but I honestly think that if you are genuinley looking to sell raw food then just from this forum and this thread you can see it is popular, and has been fed for many many years to dogs so it must be doing something right.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315145/Is-pet-food-poisoning-dogs.html
> 
> ^ This is an interesting article and may answer a few of your questions whilst no exactly 'scientific' it does raise some interesting points.


Thanks, I thought it would be interesting to forum users. It is not for me to give 'scientific' answers. I have said that already.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Perhaps it is in some cases. Not for me to say.
> 
> In the U.S.A (where raw food is heavily being promoted) I am of the understanding that the cattle there are fed heavily on diets containing growth promotants (but also so are the people). Perhaps they have similar problems with their dry feed too? I don't know. However, the EU has much tighter controls and so does the same problem exist here? Again, I don't know.


If you don't know why do you promote feeding kibble?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> If you don't know why do you promote feeding kibble?


I didn't say I don't know... I said... it is not for me to say. Plus, it doesn't answer my original question.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Why do you think how humans eat their food has any relevance to how dogs eat it? Dog also eat poo, road kill, slugs, mud, stones, toys etc to name but a few? Most humans I know don't? So what's the relevance? I also wouldn't eat dried lumps of ingredient daily..


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I didn't say I don't know... I said... it is not for me to say. Plus, it doesn't answer my original question.


But you promote it, so why do you get to question what people feed and question their motives when you haven't a clue why you fed kibble or recommend it? Do you do it because that's what you always did and that's what everyone else has done?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

This is going round in circles now which usually would indicate the thread has exhausted itself. Still interested in answers to the original question though and will look back from time to time. Please do not think I am being rude if I don't answer immediately. Thanks all


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I beg to differ. Perhaps that is for another thread.


Being married to an American does not give you knowledge on how meat is sourced in that country. 
And your posts on here clarify that you don't know the differences in sources of meat and other ingredients in dog food or individually sourced raw for that matter.

The hunted deer meat I feed my dogs does not contain any growth hormones, additives, antibiotics, etc. 
The feed rabbits, ducks, and chickens many of my fellow dog owners feed don't contain the above either.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Why do you think how humans eat their food has any relevance to how dogs eat it? Dog also eat poo, road kill, slugs, mud, stones, toys etc to name but a few? Most humans I know don't? So what's the relevance? I also wouldn't eat dried lumps of ingredient daily..


This has already been answered adequately for me earlier. Thanks anyway.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Loosely translates too - "Oh bugger...they are working out that I haven't a clue what I am talking about, so best run away!"

:Mooning


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Being married to an American does not give you knowledge on how meat is sourced in that country.
> And your posts on here clarify that you don't know the differences in sources of meat and other ingredients in dog food or individually sourced raw for that matter.
> 
> The hunted deer meat I feed my dogs does not contain any growth hormones, additives, antibiotics, etc.
> The feed rabbits, ducks, and chickens many of my fellow dog owners feed don't contain the above either.


That's a good reason and almost an answer to my original question.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Muttly said:


> .


Lol... Okay Muttly. Later... take care ;-)


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Loosely translates too - "Oh bugger...they are working out that I haven't a clue what I am talking about, so best run away!"
> 
> :Mooning


No... it means I have been on here for hours and must get some work done... lol


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> That's a good reason and almost an answer to my original question.


Ouesi is spot on.

I also source all my meat from local organic farmers, hunted deer and wild caught ducks, pidgeon etc.

I'm very lucky that I have good contacts within the meat industry. This way I know exactly what I am putting into the T's and the terrible two


----------



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Lol... Okay Muttly. Later... take care ;-)


I deleted because I think I got something wrong.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Ouesi is spot on.
> 
> I also source all my meat from local organic farmers, hunted deer and wild caught ducks, pidgeon etc.
> 
> I'm very lucky that I have good contacts within the meat industry. This way I know exactly what I am putting into the T's and the terrible two


Thanks PappyChi.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> This is going round in circles now which usually would indicate the thread has exhausted itself. Still interested in answers to the original question though and will look back from time to time. Please do not think I am being rude if I don't answer immediately. Thanks all





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> o, I directed them to a low oil content food and hey presto! problem solved.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Hmm not sure that just what the dog likes should be preferable to a balanced diet.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I was once told by a vet that GSD's (unlike many other breeds) create a great deal of the oil needed for coat internally and thereby do not need high oil levels in their food. Seemed to fit when dry food came about and, certainly, when I passed that info on to my customers their dogs appeared to benefit.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Of course, but the point was not that I did not research the ingredients but ,rather, what food was suited better to what breeds.





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> This is going round in circles now which usually would indicate the thread has exhausted itself. Still interested in answers to the original question though and will look back from time to time. Please do not think I am being rude if I don't answer immediately. Thanks all


So again why should people tell you why they feed raw so you might stock it in your shop?You do promo kibble and you do recommend it, yet you admit you haven't a clue about that, so why the sudden interest in raw, you've proven you stock food and recommend it without knowing anything about it so why feel the need to know about raw before choosing to stock it?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> So again why should people tell you why they feed raw so you might stock it in your shop?You do promo kibble and you do recommend it, yet you admit you haven't a clue about that, so why the sudden interest in raw, you've proven you stock food and recommend it without knowing anything about it so why feel the need to know about raw before choosing to stock it?


Not just me on this forum.


----------



## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Meezey said:


> Dog also eat poo, road kill, slugs, mud, stones, toys etc to name but a few? *Most* humans I know don't?


Most???


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

magpie said:


> Most???


Lol... Don't go there. lmao


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Loosely translates too - "Oh bugger...they are working out that I haven't a clue what I am talking about, so best run away!"
> 
> :Mooning


Pet Forums has been very exciting the past few days.

I wonder what the next big debate will be? :Wacky:Couchpotato


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Pet Forums has been very exciting the past few days.
> 
> I wonder what the next big debate will be? :Wacky:Couchpotato


Working on it ;-)


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> Pet Forums has been very exciting the past few days.
> 
> I wonder what the next big debate will be? :Wacky:Couchpotato


*Raises hand*

Oh oh, me miss, me miss!

'How to train my cavapoochon to attack the postman using nothing but a shock collar, while offlead in the park, after feeding him 5kg of Bakers, after which I would like to stud him out'


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> *Raises hand*
> 
> Oh oh, me miss, me miss!
> 
> 'How to train my cavapoochon to attack the postman using nothing but a shock collar, while offlead in the park, after feeding him 5kg of Bakers, after which I would like to stud him out'


After which I will go on a trip to the local Nisa with my dog on a loose lead looking calm and relaxed?

All because I bonded with him 










I think even I would stay away from that one


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> *Raises hand*
> 
> Oh oh, me miss, me miss!
> 
> 'How to train my cavapoochon to attack the postman using nothing but a shock collar, while offlead in the park, after feeding him 5kg of Bakers, after which I would like to stud him out'


Don't you think that might be a little too contentious? lmao


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Don't you think that might be a little too contentious? lmao


I think that one may in fact cause the forum to explode :Hilarious


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> I think that one may in fact cause the forum to explode :Hilarious


I have 238 messages to my name in two days, is that a record for this forum? Looool. Love a bit of banter ;-)


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Thanks for the human answer. My questions may seem leading but I really am looking for convincing argument for the benefits of raw over complete (if there are any of course.)


Why on Earth should members of this forum give their time and energy to convince you that there is a sound basis for raw feeding?

Why can't you do the research, (as most of them have done), and draw your own conclusions?

You could have done quite a lot of research whilst you've been sitting on your booster seat, demanding everyone's attention.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I have 238 messages to my name in two days, is that a record for this forum? Looool. Love a bit of banter ;-)


It's not a record, but par for the course with someone bent on causing an argument.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Why on Earth should members of this forum give their time and energy to convince you that there is a sound basis for raw feeding?
> 
> Why can't you do the research, (as most of them have done), and draw your own conclusions?
> 
> You could have done quite a lot of research whilst you've been sitting on your booster seat, demanding everyone's attention.


Because I am not ignorant and value the opinions of others.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. On this forum there is a propensity for some to be *driven toward raw food*. I am interested to know why this is.
.[/QUOTE]



CuddleMonster said:


> Regarding people being *pushed toward feeding raw*, I have had plenty of experience of this* off* the forum, but absolutely no experience of being pushed *on* the forum. Recently, my dog appeared to develop an intolerance to her food, so I put a post on here asking for suggestions for a new diet, mentioning the kibbles and raw food I had tried in the past which had not agreed with her. Having encountered some rabid raw-food enthusiasts in the past, I felt a bit nervous and wondered what reaction I would get. *Not one person* tried to convince me to feed raw (or any other type of food). People listened to Bonnie's past history and current needs and made helpful suggestions; as a result, Bonnie is now on a food that suits her much better. I don't know who these people are who keep pushing raw food, but I'm on the forum every day & I haven't met them yet!





DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Once again... I did not say that they are being pushed.


Ok, since you are being so picky over exact words, replace 'pushed' with 'driven' in my reply. The point remains unchanged, and I think the way you are being so picky over exact phrasing proves you are not really interested in any opinion that conflicts with your own.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> *Raises hand*
> 
> Oh oh, me miss, me miss!
> 
> 'How to train my cavapoochon to attack the postman using nothing but a shock collar, while offlead in the park, after feeding him 5kg of Bakers, after which I would like to stud him out'


Yeah, but, is he the size of a LARGE sheep?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> I will make my agenda clear as it seems in doubt. On this forum there is a propensity for some to be *driven toward raw food*. I am interested to know why this is.
> .


Ok, since you are being so picky over exact words, replace 'pushed' with 'driven' in my reply. The point remains unchanged, and I think the way you are being so picky over exact phrasing proves you are not really interested in any opinion that conflicts with your own.[/QUOTE]

I am being picky because driven and pushed do not mean the same thing and I was being quoted incorrectly. I feel certain that you could feel the same.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Yeah, but, is he the size of a LARGE sheep?


He is because he is fed on raw postman


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Because I am not ignorant and value the opinions of others.


Forum members have given you their opinions.

That's not good enough for you. Apparently, you want to be convinced.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Yeah, but, is he the size of a LARGE sheep?


Better, it's the size of a yak


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> He is because he is fed on raw postman


You can't get fresher than that!


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Forum members have given you their opinions.
> 
> That's not good enough for you. Apparently, you want to be convinced.


I thank everyone, it has been really informative. Not convincing but informative. So far, I have listened and pretty much the reasons given have amounted to this... Owner's preference and what appears to work. Can't ask for much more it seems and so I am content.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Ok, since you are being so picky over exact words, replace 'pushed' with 'driven' in my reply. The point remains unchanged, and I think the way you are being so picky over exact phrasing proves you are not really interested in any opinion that conflicts with your own.


I am being picky because driven and pushed do not mean the same thing and I was being quoted incorrectly. I feel certain that you could feel the same.[/QUOTE]
So are you going to tell us who keeps 'driving' us to feed raw? I've never encountered any of them, in spite of asking several food & nutrition-related questions on this forum.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Pappychi said:


> He is because he is fed on raw postman


Oh.

I don't feed my dogs raw postman, but I do leave shock collars on them all the time, because I think that makes me look Well 'Ard.

I like to shock the hell out of them at regular intervals, just for a bit of light entertainment.

I think, when I do that, they regularly bite their own tongues, so does that count as being raw fed?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> You can't get fresher than that!


Indeed but I am worried Royal Mail are gonna catch on and stop sending them.

All I have to do is let Bear stand at the gate whilst they pass me a letter and he just grabs them.

He's allowed to cause he's a flock guardian, however, I spend a lot of my time alpha rolling him because he can't be the boss of me


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I've just thought of something else being raw fed has improved- Bob's farts.

On kibble they were so pungent you could almost chew them.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I thank everyone, it has been really informative. Not convincing but informative. So far, I have listened and pretty much the reasons given have amounted to this... Owner's preference and what appears to work. Can't ask for much more it seems and so I am content.


Seems to me to be the same reasons as most owners would give for feeding kibble or whatever else they give their dog (e.g. raw postmen) If your dog is healthy & happy & enjoys his dinner, what more do you want?


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> Indeed but I am worried Royal Mail are gonna catch on and stop sending them.
> 
> All I have to do is let Bear stand at the gate whilst they pass me a letter and he just grabs them.
> 
> He's allowed to cause he's a flock guardian, however, I spend a lot of my time alpha rolling him because he can't be the boss of me


I've let my lot have a few Yodel drivers for a bit of variety.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> I've just thought of something else being raw fed has improved- Bob's farts.
> 
> On kibble they were so pungent you could almost chew them.


GSD's? You were possibly feeding them food with too high oil content. Just a guess.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> Seems to me to be the same reasons as most owners would give for feeding kibble or whatever else they give their dog (e.g. raw postmen) If your dog is healthy & happy & enjoys his dinner, what more do you want?


Yes.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> GSD's? You were possibly feeding them food with too high oil content. Just a guess.


I SOOOOOOOO wish I had some popcorn in the house.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

CuddleMonster said:


> I SOOOOOOOO wish I had some popcorn in the house.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> I SOOOOOOOO wish I had some popcorn in the house.


Lol.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> GSD's? You were possibly feeding them food with too high oil content. Just a guess.


Nope, sadly the 2 GSDs in my profile are both now at the Bridge.

Bob's our Rottie/sibe mix.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> I've let my lot have a few Yodel drivers for a bit of variety.


Good idea.

I might try it. I was thinking takeaway drivers but they may be too high in fat?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> Nope, sadly the 2 GSDs in my profile are both now at the Bridge.
> 
> Bob's our Rottie/sibe mix.


Quite a lot of my customers had Rotties... sensitive stomachs seemed to go with the breed for some reason.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> Good idea.
> 
> I might try it. I was thinking takeaway drivers but they may be too high in fat?


Best left as an occasional treat, you can get them to deliver your takeaway at the same time.

For a dog that's watching their weight may I recommend cycle couriers, low in fat, high in delicious muscle meat.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Quite a lot of my customers had Rotties... sensitive stomachs seemed to go with the breed for some reason.


Yeah, he's a bit like that, he has to have antihistamines in summer & grains are a no-no for him.

My other 2 have cast iron stomachs.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> driven and pushed do not mean the same thing


The dictionary would argue


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> Best left as an occasional treat, you can get them to deliver your takeaway at the same time.
> 
> For a dog that's watching their weight may I recommend cycle couriers, low in fat, high in delicious muscle meat.


Thanks. It really is hard to feed these bigger than sheep-sized dogs .

Pfft sheep-sized? Everyone should try having Bear sized


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh and your comment about the "oil" shows you know exactly zero about canine nutrition...the same as most food suppliers it would seem.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> The dictionary would argue


I didn't specify internally or externally driven did I. Oops.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Oh and your comment about the "oil" shows you know exactly zero about canine nutrition...the same as most food suppliers it would seem.


It would appear that I should bow to your superior knowledge Thai. I will certainly take a look.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I didn't specify internally or externally driven did I. Oops.


In the context of your post it matters not.

Both "driven" and "pushed" will mean the same...unless you made a mistake with your sentence structure that is?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> In the context of your post it matters not.
> 
> Both "driven" and "pushed" will mean the same...unless you made a mistake with your sentence structure that is?


Internally pushed and externally pushed (if pushed is to mean the same) are very different to the one being driven I would think.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Internally pushed and externally pushed (if pushed is to mean the same) are very different to the one being driven I would think.


OK now I know that you are not even reading posts in full.
Read my post again, you appear to be confusing yourself


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> OK now I know that you are not even reading posts in full.
> Read my post again, you appear to be confusing yourself


No.. I was actually agreeing with you over the definition of 'driven' but pointing out that internally driven may be an act of free will whereas externally driven may be the result of... I don't know... let's say bullying or emotive manipulation. Very different in my opinion.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I have 238 messages to my name in two days, is that a record for this forum? Looool. Love a bit of banter ;-)


Is that what you set out to do then - get as many posts under your belt as possible by making contentious posts that you know will cause a lively thread because I'm sorry I simply don't believe someone who has been around dogs and run a pet related business for years hasn't looked into the arguments for and against before now.



DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Quite a lot of my customers had Rotties... sensitive stomachs seemed to go with the breed for some reason.


Really - all of my rotties have been dustbins on legs. Not had one with a sensitive stomach with food only with NSAIDs.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Is that what you set out to do then - get as many posts under your belt as possible by making contentious posts that you know will cause a lively thread because I'm sorry I simply don't believe someone who has been around dogs and run a pet related business for years hasn't looked into the arguments for and against before now.
> 
> Really - all of my rotties have been dustbins on legs. Not had one with a sensitive stomach with food only with NSAIDs.


Raw food isn't new you know, it may have been pushed to the background for twenty years but it isn't new. Of course I have looked into it before but, due to this forum, I thought there might be something new and exciting going on that I had missed. I was interested to see whether views have changed from twenty years ago. It doesn't appear that they have much.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Plus... lively threads are good are they not?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> GSD's? You were possibly feeding them food with too high oil content. Just a guess.


Mmm. In my opinion, someone who sells dog foods for a living shouldn't be guessing.

You have a responsibility to be as knowledgeable and well informed as possible about the product you're selling.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Mmm. In my opinion, someone who sells dog foods for a living shouldn't be guessing.
> 
> You have a responsibility to be as knowledgeable and well informed as possible about the product you're selling.


No experts in here... it says so at the top of the forum. Just complying.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Is that what you set out to do then - get as many posts under your belt as possible by making contentious posts that you know will cause a lively thread because I'm sorry I simply don't believe someone who has been around dogs and run a pet related business for years hasn't looked into the arguments for and against before now.


Someone said this right at the beginning of the thread, sorry I can't remember who, but whoever it was I'm thinking they were more right than not....


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Someone said this right at the beginning of the thread, sorry I can't remember who, but whoever it was I'm thinking they were more right than not....


Your signature suggests you may be correct.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Someone said this right at the beginning of the thread, sorry I can't remember who, but whoever it was I'm thinking they were more right than not....


T'was me



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Me thinks you are purposefully starting a controversial thread pretending you don't know about why people feed raw. Just google raw feeding you will find of plenty of information


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Raw food isn't new you know, it may have been pushed to the background for twenty years but it isn't new. Of course I have looked into it before but, due to this forum, I thought there might be something new and exciting going on that I had missed. I was interested to see whether views have changed from twenty years ago. It doesn't appear that they have much.


I know thanks, I've had dogs since the early 1980's and watched my grandparents feed their dogs butchers and table scraps for years before that. The new and exciting thing going on is the huge rise in owners making themselves more informed, doing their research and as a result the huge increase in the availability of decent raw food with many big companies now offering ranges of it.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I know thanks, I've had dogs since the early 1980's and watched my grandparents feed their dogs butchers and table scraps for years before that. The new and exciting thing going on is the huge rise in owners making themselves more informed, doing their research and as a result the huge increase in the availability of decent raw food with many big companies now offering ranges of it.


It is the 'making themselves more informed' bit that was the basis to my original question.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Quite a lot of my customers had Rotties... sensitive stomachs seemed to go with the breed for some reason.


Since when? You seem to have a lot of fiction in your head and very little fact.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Since when? You seem to have a lot of fiction in your head and very little fact.


9 stores in 9 areas and lots of talking to customers I suppose.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> 9 stores in 9 areas and lots of talking to customers I suppose.


Really odd. Know literally 1000's of Rottweiler owners, world wide, with multiple dogs in most households and don't really know of anyone who find sensitive stomaches an issue in the breed. How odd, must be something to do with the food they eat, tends to be the issue when they take advice about food from those with no real knowledge.. Just round the 9 areas you have stores you say, what a coincidence hey....


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Really odd. Know literally 1000's of Rottweiler owners, world wide, with multiple dogs in most households and don't really know of anyone who find sensitive stomaches an issue in the breed. How odd, must be something to do with the food they eat, tends to be the issue when they take advice about food from those with no real knowledge.. Just round the 9 areas you have stores you say, what a coincidence hey....


I answered your question. Post a survey and see what the results are.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I answered your question.


I know you did, think the problem must be contain to those 9 areas, only common factor being you....


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Meezey said:


> I know you did, think the problem must be contain to those 9 areas, only common factor being you....


I repeat. Post a survey. It would an interesting one anyway. Plus, it would be neutral. Not a problem for me is it for you?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Quite a lot of my customers had Rotties... sensitive stomachs seemed to go with the breed for some reason.


I've had a few rescue Rotties and never found this either 

I'd be questioning what they're feeding to have sensitive stomachs.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> I've had a few rescue Rotties and never found this either
> 
> I'd be questioning what they're feeding to have sensitive stomachs.


Indeed, as did I question.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> I've had a few rescue Rotties and never found this either
> 
> I'd be questioning what they're feeding to have sensitive stomachs.


One thing I can hand on heart & from woeful experience NOT recommend that rotties eat is rat food


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> One thing I can hand on heart & from woeful experience NOT recommend that rotties eat is rat food


Yes, definitely not a food that should be recommended... lol


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

What a (not so) brilliant piece of advertising for your 'shop'.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

MilleD said:


> What a (not so) brilliant piece of advertising for your 'shop'.


Advertising is incidental, that is why I am not afraid to say what I think or ask questions. I totally agree with some in this thread who suggest that owners will make up their own minds and that was the whole point of the question originally asked. Informed choice.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> One thing I can hand on heart & from woeful experience NOT recommend that rotties eat is rat food


That does sound like a woeful experience :Wideyed


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> One thing I can hand on heart & from woeful experience NOT recommend that rotties eat is rat food


depends if youre feeding the shumanite diet
my yorkie tended to hover under the cage just in case any dropped

I dont feed raw, I feed a mix of barf, raw, rmb, and various other 'diets' that suit my dogs and dont include kibble or tinned wet
one may get more rmb, one may get less, one may have golden oil added, one may have cottage cheese
but all thrive, my last yorkie got to 18, my present boxer x mastiff is 12, and, apart from some age related conditions is thriving, at what, for the two breeds, is an amazing age to reach [theres your next debate, hybrid vigour!] my crestoie, despite not having the best set of teeth [breed related, not feed related] manages beef ribs with gusto, non of the dogs i have personally owned in the last 40 years have ever needed dental work EXCEPT for thunder, but that was human related, as many of you know

feeding as I do, i can monitor the health and weight of each individual dog, I know *EXACTLY* what is in each days food mix and_* IF *_something sets a reaction, I know exactly what has caused it
they also get a mix of proteins and fats, including rabbit, hare, horse, game birds, venison, along with the everyday proteins and, because I buy direct from an abattoir, i know the source/s of the meat I feed, which, apart from the green tripe, is all human grade

I make an effort not to feed my family anything I cannot pronounce, and try to put that mentality into my animal food [including rats and parrots when i had them, none were fed any generic pet shop diet]

do i put my ethics onto anyone else? unless specifically asked, not my monkey, not my circus, but yes if asked and said person shows some interest I will eulogise along with the best, including the honest facts that its not as easy as chucking a chicken wing their way every meal


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

mrs phas said:


> depends if youre feeding the shumanite diet
> my yorkie tended to hover under the cage just in case any dropped
> 
> I dont feed raw, I feed a mix of barf, raw, rmb, and various other 'diets' that suit my dogs and dont include kibble or tinned wet
> ...


Informative. Thanks for that.


----------



## Mellowredsa (Apr 17, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> Pet Forums has been very exciting the past few days.
> 
> I wonder what the next big debate will be? :Wacky:Couchpotato


How many people eat dog poo perhaps (??)


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Mellowredsa said:


> How many people eat dog poo perhaps (??)


Lol.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> *depends if youre feeding the shumanite diet*
> my yorkie tended to hover under the cage just in case any dropped


It was indeed!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Mellowredsa said:


> How many people eat dog poo perhaps (??)


Nah.

I think a full thread on the Bark Lords training methods :Hilarious That one is guaranteed to cause a sh*t hurricane :Hurting


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

Meezey said:


> Really odd. Know literally 1000's of Rottweiler owners, world wide, with multiple dogs in most households and don't really know of anyone who find sensitive stomaches an issue in the breed. How odd, must be something to do with the food they eat, tends to be the issue when they take advice about food from those with no real knowledge.. Just round the 9 areas you have stores you say, what a coincidence hey....


I have to say, of the breeds that come to mind for sensitive stomachs, rotties are not one of them. 
So far we have GSDs need less oil in their diet and rotties are notorious for sensitive stomachs, can't wait to hear the next great breed truth when it comes to feeding... 

I wonder if our prolific posting newbie has any recommendation for what a great dane should be eating or if it should be in a raised dish or not?


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I have to say, of the breeds that come to mind for sensitive stomachs, rotties are not one of them.
> So far we have GSDs need less oil in their diet and rotties are notorious for sensitive stomachs, can't wait to hear the next great breed truth when it comes to feeding...
> 
> I wonder if our prolific posting newbie has any recommendation for what a great dane should be eating or if it should be in a raised dish or not?


Are you in doubt or full of confidence?


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I was once told by a vet that GSD's (unlike many other breeds) create a great deal of the oil needed for coat internally and thereby do not need high oil levels in their food. Seemed to fit when dry food came about and, certainly, when I passed that info on to my customers their dogs appeared to benefit.


How novel, and how do GSDs "create oil" I wonder, how fascinating, where is the data to support this rather interesting concept?


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> How novel, and how do GSDs "create oil" I wonder, how fascinating, where is the data to support this rather interesting concept?


Hey! Look who showed up!
The whole time I was reading this thread I kept thinking "oh man, where is smokeybear when you need her" 

*pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> How novel, and how do GSDs "create oil" I wonder, how fascinating, where is the data to support this rather interesting concept?


Alongside the evidence for raw food I would imagine.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Are you in doubt or full of confidence?


If that's in reference to my signature, I'll let you, and the forum members figure that one out. 
It's generally pretty evident based on the content of one's posts.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Hey! Look who showed up!
> The whole time I was reading this thread I kept thinking "oh man, where is smokeybear when you need her"
> 
> *pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Hey! Look who showed up!
> The whole time I was reading this thread I kept thinking "oh man, where is smokeybear when you need her"
> 
> *pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*


Glad it wasn't just me then :Cigar


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Asked my question at 9.30 this morning and have stayed with it all day, so time for TV and feet up I think. Night all and thanks for all the likes and informative posts.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> That was imparting to GSD owners what was advised to me.


So you just regurgitate that which is imparted to you by others to the unsuspecting consumers without any shred of evidence?

Sounds very professional


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> So you just regurgitate that which is imparted to you by others to the unsuspecting consumers without any shred of evidence?
> 
> Sounds very professional


Smokeybear... Seriously? Playground antics? Really? Answer the original question if you can.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> This is going round in circles now which usually would indicate the thread has exhausted itself. Still interested in answers to the original question though and will look back from time to time. Please do not think I am being rude if I don't answer immediately. Thanks all


Personally, I don't know how I'll cope if you don't answer immediately.


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Personally, I don't know how I'll cope if you don't answer immediately.


Awww... that's so sweet sweety. Thank you. But I am sure you will find a way ;-)


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> How novel, and how do GSDs "create oil" I wonder, how fascinating, where is the data to support this rather interesting concept?


I believe GSD oil is the next big thing in culinary circles, knocking sunflower & olive off the top spots


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Asked my question at 9.30 this morning and have stayed with it all day, so time for TV and feet up I think. Night all and thanks for all the likes and informative posts.


Business must be booming!


----------



## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Business must be booming!


Not bad but define booming and I will tell you.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Alongside the evidence for raw food I would imagine.


Well I feed raw but I am not a food fascist nor am I evangelical about it, the reasons I choose to feed my dogs a particular diet are so that they can have bespoke nutrition according to their needs which can be tweaked very precisely when and where necessary and I can add or remove particular ingredients if required.

I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything, millions of dogs do very well on a myriad of diets around the world. I also feed Orijen.

I do what most dog owners do, what I think is best for my dogs.

It is irrelevant to me what others feed their dogs.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> Well I feed raw but I am not a food fascist nor am I evangelical about it, the reasons I choose to feed my dogs a particular diet are so that they can have bespoke nutrition according to their needs which can be tweaked very precisely when and where necessary and I can add or remove particular ingredients if required.
> 
> I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything, millions of dogs do very well on a myriad of diets around the world. I also feed Orijen.
> 
> ...


Thanks Smokeybear. Especially because I believe that plenty of people read these posts and they are likely to be interested what others feed their dogs.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> I believe GSD oil is the next big thing in culinary circles, knocking sunflower & olive off the top spots


Well I won't be feeding to my rottie just in case it upset hers stomach


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well I won't be feeding to my rottie just in case it upset hers stomach


This just keeps getting better and better :Cigar:Cigar


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well I won't be feeding to my rottie just in case it upset hers stomach


I am thinking all the black and tan dogs we have had must not be Rottweilers


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Meezey said:


> I am thinking all the black and tan dogs we have had must not be Rottweilers


Counterfeit-weilers


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I am thinking all the black and tan dogs we have had must not be Rottweilers


Perhaps they were sheep  Come to think of it my GSD can't have been a GSD either :Bawling


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Perhaps they were sheep  Come to think of it my GSD can't have been a GSD either :Bawling


All mine must have been broken too I'd of made a fortune tapping them for oil......Christ who knew army lines were oil field in the making I could be a millionaire :'( an oil Baron....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> Counterfeit-weilers


Just be my luck to get fakes.... Gonna find their zips, they are sheep in Rottweiler clothing..... Going to find a sheep with a squitty arse and unzip it to find a Rottweiler


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am a businessman.


Just not a very good one.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Satori said:


> Just not a very good one.


73 new customers as a direct result of posting on here is favourable even if not intentional. Plus, the site has been indexed by google within two days and is making its way up the search engine. I am happy with that.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> 73 new customers as a direct result of posting on here is favourable even if not intentional.


Oh it was intentional....


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Meezey said:


> Just be my luck to get fakes.... Gonna find their zips, they are sheep in Rottweiler clothing..... Going to find a sheep with a squitty arse and unzip it to find a Rottweiler


Bloomin hell! I reckon you're on to something 

I think it would be easy to confuse sheep with Rottweilers, we are all now enlightened to the fact that breed traits do not matter :Bookworm


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Oh it was intentional....


Obviously I cannot argue but I am thankful to everyone for contributing.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Is that 73 new actual customers (placed orders), or 73 new hits to your site?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Perhaps they were sheep  Come to think of it my GSD can't have been a GSD either :Bawling


The only foolproof way to identify a GSD is to give it a gentle squeeze- if it exudes oil, it's the real deal


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> The only foolproof way to identify a GSD is to give it a gentle squeeze- if it exudes oil, it's the real deal


I hear GSD fried chips are gonna be the next big thing over here


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Is that 73 new actual customers (placed orders), or 73 new hits to your site?


orders.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> 73 new customers as a direct result of posting on here is favourable even if not intentional. Plus, the site has been indexed by google within two days and is making its way up the search engine. I am happy with that.


I bet you are, what a thoroughly underhand way of going about raising your profile. I hope none of those customers have GSDs and ask for feeding advice 



StormyThai said:


> Is that 73 new actual customers (placed orders), or 73 new hits to your site?


Well I looked but I certainly didn't order anything. Nor would I.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I see.
You do realise that you are breaking forum rules?

What you are doing is considered spamming.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> I see.
> You do realise that you are breaking forum rules?
> 
> What you are doing is considered spamming.


no... i think not.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

What you think isn't the issue.
I'm sure the mods will make their own mind up


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

I wonder how many people have reported OP....


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

​


StormyThai said:


> What you are doing is considered spamming.


IMO it's considered trolling & you've all been sucked in...


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

BlackadderUK said:


> ​
> IMO it's considered trolling & you've all been sucked in...


Trolling with the intention of spamming 
And yes I was.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> orders.


Yes of course I believe you 1000's wouldn't..


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Trolling with the intention of spamming


Yep, probably. Let the thread die.. always best in these circumstances.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

BlackadderUK said:


> Yep, probably. Let the thread die.. always best in these circumstances.


ur no fun


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

ouesi said:


> ur no fun


Nope


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Well at least we have had another good laugh today, priceless really


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well at least we have had another good laugh today, priceless really


Brilliant. I am actually really looking forward to the next one :Smuggrin


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## Chrisheathcote (Jul 10, 2015)

Having read through the entire thread, I guessed the OP might have been fishing for business. Anyway a tip to the OP. Rather than spending the day winding up potential customers on one of the UK's most active pet forums, you may have been better working on your website.
Having just visited, (curiosity got the better of me), I have to say it needs a lot of work. The home page looks untidy, your prices appear expensive (certainly more than the likes of Zooplus), there is nothing about you, no terms and conditions. Having had a little flick through, my opinion is that it looks very amateur and not a site that I would order from.

Anyway good luck and enjoy the flaming and bad PR once word gets around


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

KatieandOliver said:


> I wonder how many people have reported OP....


f


Chrisheathcote said:


> Having read through the entire thread, I guessed the OP might have been fishing for business. Anyway a tip to the OP. Rather than spending the day winding up potential customers on one of the UK's most active pet forums, you may have been better working on your website.
> Having just visited, (curiosity got the better of me), I have to say it needs a lot of work. The home page looks untidy, your prices appear expensive (certainly more than the likes of Zooplus), there is nothing about you, no terms and conditions. Having had a little flick through, my opinion is that it looks very amateur and not a site that I would order from.
> 
> Anyway good luck and enjoy the flaming and bad PR once word gets around


Thanks for the feedback. I will take a look and improve where necessary. I have checked Zooplus as it was being mentioned on here and, actually, I wasn't fishing for business. It was nice it came though.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2016)

Chrisheathcote said:


> Anyway good luck and enjoy the flaming and bad PR once word gets around


In all seriousness, there have been 2 occasions where there were companies that I would have used, but after seeing the owner's behavior on line, on principle I chose not to. One is a fairly well-known custom leather collar company that has pretty nice stuff, I'll just never use them though because of the online behavior I witnessed.

@DogsandCatsShopCoUK is not in any danger of losing business from me, I'm not in the UK and not interested in their products, but I don't consider myself unique in how I react to unprofessionalism, and I would suspect that the number of potential customers lost from this spamming/trolling behavior far outweighs the measly 73 customers gained. Not that one could ever prove it, but yeah....


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

ouesi said:


> In all seriousness, there have been 2 occasions where there were companies that I would have used, but after seeing the owner's behavior on line, on principle I chose not to. One is a fairly well-known custom leather collar company that has pretty nice stuff, I'll just never use them though because of the online behavior I witnessed.
> 
> @DogsandCatsShopCoUK is not in any danger of losing business from me, I'm not in the UK and not interested in their products, but I don't consider myself unique in how I react to unprofessionalism, and I would suspect that the number of potential customers lost from this spamming/trolling behavior far outweighs the measly 73 customers gained. Not that one could ever prove it, but yeah....


Thanks for your feedback. much appreciated.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> 73 new customers as a direct result of posting on here is favourable even if not intentional. Plus, the site has been indexed by google within two days and is making its way up the search engine. I am happy with that.


No. Don't believe that for one minute.

You come across as foolish, conniving and totally unprofessional.

I don't believe for one moment that 73 people read this thread, became enthralled by you, and ordered from your 'Company'.

What did they order? GSD oil, or the oil free food you recommend to every GSD owner because your Vet mentioned it?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> No. Don't believe that for one minute.
> 
> You come across as foolish, conniving and totally unprofessional.
> 
> ...


Oil free food? That is a new one on me.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> No. Don't believe that for one minute.
> 
> You come across as foolish, conniving and totally unprofessional.
> 
> ...


Views: 3,191 so far today according to the forum.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> Of course a personal preference is understandable but what was the specific needs for your dogs that caused you to make the decision to put them on a raw diet?
> 
> When dry feed first started I had a lot of customers with German Shepherds (in particular) that said it didn't agree with their dog as it affected the coat and poo. So, I directed them to a low oil content food and hey presto! problem solved. German Shepherds (unlike most other breeds) do not need a high oil content food and it was the excess oil causing the problem.


Many apologies. 

Low oil food, not oil free, is apparently the remedy for all ills in GSDs.

Still a load of BS.

Would you care to share with us the research you did which formed the conviction with you that GSDs, (unlike most other breeds), do not need a high oil content food?

Can you give us a link please?


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Many apologies.
> 
> Low oil food, not oil free, is apparently the remedy for all ills in GSDs.
> 
> ...


Sweety... seriously give it up. All you are doing is giving me more web exposure. It isn't helping your agenda. I am being fair to you. If you don't like what I have to say then ignore me. It really is that simple. Otherwise I will start to believe that you have other motives for the continued badgering over and over again.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/low-prices-free-delivery-www-dogsandcatsshop-co-uk.426244/


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/low-prices-free-delivery-www-dogsandcatsshop-co-uk.426244/


Thanks Rottie... that should keep my posts fresh in the forum.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Hey! Look who showed up!
> The whole time I was reading this thread I kept thinking "oh man, where is smokeybear when you need her"
> 
> *pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*


It took her all day to read the thread! I started yesterday afternoon and have had to pick up again this morning. Dogs currently being thoroughly ignored until I can plough my way through the whole damned thing


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> It took her all day to read the thread! I started yesterday afternoon and have had to pick up again this morning. Dogs currently being thoroughly ignored until I can plough my way through the whole damned thing


I am not surprised. The thread was posted at 9.30 yesterday morning and was still going on at nearly midnight last night! If it helps, the answers to my question, in a nutshell, turned out to be this... some forum users feed raw food because of personal preference, ability to change all or part of the diet at will, apparent dental care improvement and it appears to work for their dog. Appreciated, it took 20+ pages to get there but thanks to those who did answer me and I suspect that other forum users will find the info beneficial too.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> I am not surprised. The thread was posted at 9.30 yesterday morning and was still going on at nearly midnight last night! If it helps, the answers to my question, in a nutshell, turned out to be this... some forum users feed raw food because of personal preference, ability to change all or part of the diet at will, apparent dental care improvement and it appears to work for their dog. Appreciated, it took 20+ pages to get there but thanks to those who did answer me and I suspect that other forum users will find the info beneficial too.


I didn't take 20+ pages to get there, it was answered straight away, but you then demanded people prove that it's better than kibble. If you had stuck with "interesting, I'll go and investigate that" then this could have been an altogether more pleasant and informative thread. Quite often you said that you were doing this for people who were unsure and looking into it, as if you were doing a public service for those who are seemingly incapable of asking their own questions. And please don't ask me to prove where you said x, I really can't be arsed trawling through this thread again


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> I didn't take 20+ pages to get there, it was answered straight away, but you then demanded people prove that it's better than kibble. If you had stuck with "interesting, I'll go and investigate that" then this could have been an altogether more pleasant and informative thread. Quite often you said that you were doing this for people who were unsure and looking into it, as if you were doing a public service for those who are seemingly incapable of asking their own questions. And please don't ask me to prove where you said x, I really can't be arsed trawling through this thread again


Okay, I wont ask as requested. Though I must add, I never demanded anything and neither could I. I think I asked to be convinced but, anyway, I am sure those who are interested will read the thread. Once again thanks to all who did give answers, thoroughly informative.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> orders.


That sounds like bull to me.

Anyone that would order from you on the back of your behaviour here is clearly an idiot (not intentionally fishing for business??), and I haven't seen a huge amount of those around on PF.

You've contradicted yourself many times in this thread. I can't be bothered to give examples which will be your next question. Read what you've written back.

Honestly, you should be a politician you are so slippery.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

MilleD said:


> That sounds like bull to me.
> 
> Anyone that would order from you on the back of your behaviour here is clearly an idiot (not intentionally fishing for business??), and I haven't seen a huge amount of those around on PF.
> 
> ...


MilleD... I politely ask you to refrain from possible harassment and/or defamation too please. It is, in my view, unnecessary and unpleasant


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

DogsandCatsShopCoUK said:


> MilleD... I politely ask you to refrain from possible defamation to please. It is, in my view, unnecessary.


Why? Might lose you a few orders?

See? Slippery.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I honestly don't think most people will bother to plough through this thread looking for raw food info when we have a perfectly good one by Katiefranke in the stickies- which complements the 2 excellent threads by SixStar for dry & wet foods- & which isn't 90% waffle.

OP, I briefly visited your website yesterday & can't understand what sort of niche it's supposed to fill- yes it takes you to eBay sellers but I can do that on eBay itself just by typing 'dog food' the search bar (& less faffing than being redirected too) & then refining the search.


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## DogsandCatsShopCoUK (Apr 26, 2016)

simplysardonic said:


> I honestly don't think most people will bother to plough through this thread looking for raw food info when we have a perfectly good one by Katiefranke in the stickies- which complements the 2 excellent threads by SixStar for dry & wet foods- & which isn't 90% waffle.
> 
> OP, I briefly visited your website yesterday & can't understand what sort of niche it's supposed to fill- yes it takes you to eBay sellers but I can do that on eBay itself just by typing 'dog food' the search bar (& less faffing than being redirected too) & then refining the search.


Thanks for the feedback.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Oh go on then, here my 2 cents...

I do believe a good diet is the cornerstone of good health, so I am very fussy about what I will feed my pets.

I currently feed my dog and cats on raw, although I can't say I'm against wet or dry per say. (actually I'm against dry for cats but this isn't the place for that discussion)

Dogs are carnivores for one thing, so I choose to feed a diet based primarily on meat. I'm not completely anti carbs in small amounts, but I don't feel a high carb diet is appropriate for a carnivorewho actually has no dietary need of them.

I also object to the use of artificial colours and preservatives, and cheap filler used in certain foods for no reason other than to increase profit margins.

Last but not least there is some evidence from human nutrition that processed foods are often generally 'bad' for us compared to real, whole foods. I think its bizarre that the medical profession push real food and suggest minimising processed foods, but a large chunk of the veterinary profession does the opposite.

The result is that I won't feed the majority of commercial dry foods because I don't want to feed large amounts of cheap grains, added sugar or salt, or artificial rubbish. I have no real objection to high meat, grain free, good quality foods.

That said, I do not believe any single food to be perfect. Consider the vast differences between all the dry foods labelled as complete and balanced. How can they all be perfect when they have so little in common?

The result is that I prefer to feed a varied diet, so as not to rely on the same exact nutrients day in day out. I prefer to know exactly what I'm feeding so I can avoid the grains, cheap fillers and other crap, it is easier to deal with food allergies and I!intolerances, and of course I prefer to feed fresh and unprocessed. 

As to improved health since the advent of dry, that's a complex issue. As has been said, there are many factors affecting health and lifespan inc health testing, improved vet care etc. Of course diet is important, and feeding a complete balanced diet avoids nutritional deficiencies etc. But this can be done is various ways - not justdry food but wet, commercial raw, diy raw, home cooked etc. Its also worth considering that other health issues have increased in recent years. Obesity, diabetes, issues related to dehydration in cats... All that could very well be caused by those commercial dry diets.


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## Mellowredsa (Apr 17, 2016)

Shouldn't this thread have been posted in the classified section? It is after all a (very misguided) marketing shot.

See my upcoming thread "Fluffy blankets for your dogs and cats? Why?". This will be to stir up a bit of marketing for the dog and cat beds and tents we make.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I'm still looking for information on ethically sourced GSD oil. I want to use it to fry my chips as I've been told it's very low in cholesterol, but I need to know that no GSDs were harmed during extraction...can anyone help?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> I'm still looking for information on ethically sourced GSD oil. I want to use it to fry my chips as I've been told it's very low in cholesterol, but I need to know that no GSDs were harmed during extraction...can anyone help?


Actually I am having my GSD fitted with a tap as I type, so that I can draw off the oil to sell to others who have breeds which are not equipped with this facility.

I will of course be charging extortionate prices for this rare opportunity to obtain this valuable commodity.

I have implanted the tap under GA and there appear to be no untoward side effects.

I am opening up bidding now...................


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## Mellowredsa (Apr 17, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> I'm still looking for information on ethically sourced GSD oil. I want to use it to fry my chips as I've been told it's very low in cholesterol, but I need to know that no GSDs were harmed during extraction...can anyone help?


Ooohh CuddleMonster, don't think you are going to find that. Bear in mind where this information came from. There may be some info on a recently promoted website though.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Actually I am having my GSD fitted with a tap as I type, so that I can draw off the oil to sell to others who have breeds which are not equipped with this facility.
> 
> I will of course be charging extortionate prices for this rare opportunity to obtain this valuable commodity.
> 
> ...


I bid one bag of special RSPCA kibble.


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## Mellowredsa (Apr 17, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> Actually I am having my GSD fitted with a tap as I type, so that I can draw off the oil to sell to others who have breeds which are not equipped with this facility.
> 
> I will of course be charging extortionate prices for this rare opportunity to obtain this valuable commodity.
> 
> ...


But have you linked up to the "Best dog and cat food website in the world"?


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I bid one bag of special RSPCA kibble.


PFFT.

@smokeybear

I bid a sheep sized, raw postman eating super, duper extreme special snowflake livestock guardian :Couchpotato


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Pappychi said:


> PFFT.
> 
> @smokeybear
> 
> I bid a sheep sized, raw postman eating super, duper extreme special snowflake livestock guardian :Couchpotato


I think you are leading the bids at the moment.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Actually I am having my GSD fitted with a tap as I type, so that I can draw off the oil to sell to others who have breeds which are not equipped with this facility.
> 
> I will of course be charging extortionate prices for this rare opportunity to obtain this valuable commodity.
> 
> ...


I will be making a bid.

I have heard from a reliable source, (the RSPCA, apparently they're experts in every field), that GSD oil is wonderful for rubbing into the wounds of stricken Postmen after you allow your dog to bite them because the dog is the size of a large sheep.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As the OP is no longer with us I am going to close this now :Locktopic


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