# early neutering pros / cons?



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

can anyone give me some points on early neutering pros cons?

I always thought that 6 months is the best age but I know alot more people are early neutering now thanks


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> can anyone give me some points on early neutering pros cons?
> 
> I always thought that 6 months is the best age but I know alot more people are early neutering now thanks


The best age to neuter is when the dog is fully mature (note: not sexually mature but fully mature) - which could be anything up to 18 months depending upon the size of the breed. Read this thread - loads and loads of info both against and for early neutering on there:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/104601-do-dogs-grow-more-if-they-neutered.html


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> The best age to neuter is when the dog is fully mature (note: not sexually mature but fully mature) - which could be anything up to 18 months depending upon the size of the breed. Read this thread - loads and loads of info both against and for early neutering on there:
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/104601-do-dogs-grow-more-if-they-neutered.html


I dont have dogs its cats and kittens im on about, I did post this in the cat bit didnt I lol??


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## allycatsiamese (Jun 29, 2010)

I haven't done so yet, but have been seriously considering early spay/neuter for our kittens. Below is my pros/cons list (at least some of it).

*Pros*
-I have read somewhere (I can't remember where), that kittens recover quicker at a young age than they do at 6 months. They also have each other for support, which therefore speeds healing.

-A theriogeneology textbook I have claims that "...gonadectomy of female cats at 7 weeks of age is not associated with significant physical differences compared to females cats gonadectomized at 7 months of age."

-I was recently contacted by a prospective buyer who had just lost a kitten at 6 months of age due to a reaction to anesthetic. Spaying early can prevent this heart break.

-I know many pet owners who's cats have had serious complications after a spay. As a breeder, we are more knowledgeable about warning signs of illness, and a cats' health in general and are therefore more likely to notice symptoms.

-If our kittens leave spayed/neutered, we do not have to worry about enforcing contracts or people breeding irresponsibly without our consent. We also do not need worry about intact animal health concerns in the kittens we sell.

-Opposite sexed pairs can be safely sold together.

-Owners of an altered kitten need not worry about estrus cycles or as much about spraying (even though altered cats can still spray).

*Cons*
-I can't find any information that says that this is unhealthy for the kitten, but just because I can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

-There are increased costs involved. Are buyers willing to pay even more for a kitten? In Ontario (Canada), I'm not so sure.

-Not all vets are capable/willing to perform an early spay/neuter.

-Are buyers willing to purchase a kitten that has already been altered?

I hope this helps. I would love to hear more from people who currently practice this.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I dont have dogs its cats and kittens im on about, I did post this in the cat bit didnt I lol??


You did indeed,however I didnt realise either and was just going to post about doggie neutering/spaying until I realised at the last minute. Apologies it is late however,in out defence!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

thanks for that! yes im worried about maturing aspects, all of my pet kittens are to be neutered but i still worry, yet if someone wants a pet kittens it shouldnt matter.

i know lots of people who have started doing it now, very hard decision as ive had a few new owners ask for me to do it before they leave, will have to read up more and call my vets tom i think.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> You did indeed,however I didnt realise either and was just going to post about doggie neutering/spaying until I realised at the last minute. Apologies it is late however,in out defence!!


lol dont worry i had to double check! i know its alot different for doggies though!


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## allycatsiamese (Jun 29, 2010)

I sold my first litter in early August. One of the owners is now going to try and fight me on my spay/neuter contract.

He wanted a pet kitten. Ensured me many times that he was going to be altered as soon as possible, signed my contracts. I have done everything I could. I have warned him that the kitten could start to spray at any time now, that he can become agressive, etc. But it's not helping.

In all other aspects, he's a great owner.

I was informed by a friend of his that he is going to try and get out of it. Not because he wants to breed his cat, but because he "can't afford" to get him neutered. He will not return my phone calls or emails.

Under the contract he has until January to have him neutered. If he doesn't have him neutered by then he will not receive his registration papers (he's registered as a neuter, anyway). I can take him to court, but I don't think it will help.

Just a bad experience I guess, but this is what got me thinking about it. Even though you sell them as pets, once they're in someone else's care, it's difficult to enforce. I think early spay/neuter gives us more control and less stress in these situations.


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## YesWeCat (Nov 29, 2010)

I was talking about that with my vet. Usually they prefer to wait 6 months before doing that but they ensured me that there are no bad cons if I decide to do that before..which is what I'd like to do avoid allycatsiamese's problems..


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I had the same thing, only had it with 1 person so far, but its still a big worry isnt it? 

(have PM you about this allycat)


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> thanks for that! yes im worried about maturing aspects, all of my pet kittens are to be neutered but i still worry, yet if someone wants a pet kittens it shouldnt matter.


not true. A lot of pet kitten buyers still want to see their cats develop (physically) as much as possible. In the BSH breed the males do mature a good bit even between month 6 and month 9. They get a bit more "face" if you see what I mean. I have no idea how the BSH male would look neutered at 8-14 weeks. So this could definitely be an issue for many buyers, even just pet buyers.

I only have real experience with TNR early neuters.

In the rescue world I am not against it. Needs must.

And I won't go as far as to say I am against it with ped cats... but I am not exactly for it either (lol), and I personally would not buy a cat from a breeder who early neutered, as there is zero need to early neuter any cat I own as I am a responsible owner.

I am not against the op as such, more the effect it has on their growing up and their fun period of childhood and the fact it is cramming so many stressful events into such a short time span in a kittens life (vaccs, rehoming, neuter, chipping, separation from mum & siblings), so I would be more against early neuter when done in the first 13 weeks of life. Those weeks of life IMO are too valuable to kittens to contemplate it.

But I have to say I would possibly be open to breeders who kept their kittens to 16 or 17 weeks of age and got the neuter done after the 2nd set of vaccs then rehomed them at say 16 weeks. Havoc (one of the breeders on this forum) is an advocate of this, although no vets in her area do early neuters, but I had an interesting chat with her about the last time we discussed this. I much prefer this to getting them done at 8 or 9 weeks.

Also all neuters at any age carry risks... I just thnik when the $hit does hit the fan with a neuter, well I think the older they are the better set they are to deal with complications/setbacks. Did you read about HannahKate's healthy 7 month old cat Molly.... died this past Sunday 2½ days after she was neutered??? I have had a similar terribel experience with getting a perfectly healthy 6 month old kitten neutered, she too died a short while after the op. These things DO happen and I know we can never rule them out 100%... but I just think the older they happen the better the chance the cat will have to survive.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

allycatsiamese said:


> Even though you sell them as pets, once they're in someone else's care, it's difficult to enforce. I think early spay/neuter gives us more control and less stress in these situations.


that is very true. But don't you think it is making the kittens pay the price for bad ownership? Just because an owner may be untrustworthy, the kitten has to be the one who is dealt with. Is that fair? I don't like that angle of early neuter so much... even though I agree your situation is horrible, selling a kitten as a neuter and then the owner refusing to neuter. I do wonder if it is less stress for you as the owner and more stress for the kitten though (to neuter early).

And if you can't trust someone to neuter as per agreement... how can you trust them with all the other important cat ownership issues (like indoors or outdoors, taking them to the vet when they're sick, or treating them for fleas or worms, or getting their annual jabs, or just providing basics like love and food and mental stimulation? ).

Again though.... I am just thinking out loud.

I am not *that* against that I will string breeders up who early neuter.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Tje said:


> not true. A lot of pet kitten buyers still want to see their cats develop (physically) as much as possible. In the BSH breed the males do mature a good bit even between month 6 and month 9. They get a bit more "face" if you see what I mean. I have no idea how the BSH male would look neutered at 8-14 weeks. So this could definitely be an issue for many buyers, even just pet buyers.


I know you go on to say rescues are different, but I still did want to interject--over here in the US, shelters typically spay or neuter as soon as they get a cat or kitten in. I understand why, I really do. But it's a shame for the responsible pet owners out here, as I think the kittens we take aren't given a chance to develop fully. Males, in particular, don't develop what you've called "face"--those are secondary sex characteristics which give a male a bigger head and broader face and they never happen if neutering takes place before 6 or 7 months. I think females also fail to develop, but it's not quite so physically noticeable from just looking at the cat.

We have 2 from the shelter up the street and both were neutered at about 7 weeks. Pippin, our male, is such a small boy--he has a very angular head and you can really see how his face is much smaller than Henry's--who I had done at 6 months. Not to say Pippin isn't cute as can be, but I do feel a little bad for him that he didn't grow as much as he should have.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

What I meant was if someone was looking for a 'pet' it shouldnt matter should it? no matter what the age.

BUT I am still 90% not for it at the mo, as I said to the people who Asked me to do it before the kits goes to new home, obviously stress alot at a young age as you said, go to new homes later, not mature, And I did say to them that I put trust in my kittens new owners to do it, you have to trust them to take care of the baby, its a really hard decision, if I had had countless people Not want to neuter then Id prob look intio it more, but only having 1 and then we got them to neuter anyway.

Im going backwards and forwards here!! :incazzato::crazy:

Have to say that one of my british kits was done at 5 months, their choice as their last british sprayed, and his face / himself is still very 'british' like chunky haha  and the little blue boy has devloped quite nice to, his not done yet, have another month to go as their vets likes to do it at 7months


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

dagny0823 said:


> I know you go on to say rescues are different, but I still did want to interject--over here in the US, shelters typically spay or neuter as soon as they get a cat or kitten in. I understand why, I really do. But it's a shame for the responsible pet owners out here, as I think the kittens we take aren't given a chance to develop fully. Males, in particular, don't develop what you've called "face"--those are secondary sex characteristics which give a male a bigger head and broader face and they never happen if neutering takes place before 6 or 7 months. I think females also fail to develop, but it's not quite so physically noticeable from just looking at the cat.
> 
> We have 2 from the shelter up the street and both were neutered at about 7 weeks. Pippin, our male, is such a small boy--he has a very angular head and you can really see how his face is much smaller than Henry's--who I had done at 6 months. Not to say Pippin isn't cute as can be, but I do feel a little bad for him that he didn't grow as much as he should have.


dagny, I am not disagreeing with you, I do think there is LOT of development that is missed out on. I just see this as much more of a "needs must" thing in the rescue world than it ever is the pedigree world. For the record, I will continue to refuse to have any of my fosters early neutered. Although my shleter is moving closer towards this way of doing things. They did a few "experimental" litters over the summer. When it becomes standard operating procedure, I think that is the day I stop fostering kittens.

I just don't stand behind it enough. For now I can only fully support it with TNR kittens (trap, neuter & release)

And my own boy was neutered at 9 months old and he too did a fair old bit of maturing between month 6 and 9... and definitely LOADS between months 3 and 9.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> What I meant was if someone was looking for a 'pet' it shouldnt matter should it? no matter what the age.


how can you say what every pet owner looks for or what matters to them? It matters to me, it matters to Dagny, it matters to quite a lot of pet owners. Even if it wasn't about the looks that come with development and age ... it can still matter to pet owners that cats are early neutered.

Can you see that? ( hehehee, I am too tired to explain well tonight. )

Maybe just like me they want their kittens to have a fun first 13 weeks of life.

If I could responsibly delay vaccination till they are 10 years old.. lol.. I would. If I could responsibly delay chipping till they are 15 years old, I would. I just hate to see kittens "poorly" ... I want to see them climb up the curtain and swing from the lampshades.... not lying recovering from a GA and an op.

But again... just my opinion and not something I see as bad or wicked or evil.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> I dont have dogs its cats and kittens im on about, I did post this in the cat bit didnt I lol??


Whoops - didn't notice that!  In that case - please ignore my earlier post! (Slinks off with egg on face!  )


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Our vet does'nt think it is a good idea to neuter Maine Coons before they are at least 9 months old because they take longer to mature, with Dalmatian boys it is not a good idea untill they are at least 15 months old because of the risk of them being stone formers & haveing spent years & £'sssss on pills & ops for Scutter (large moggy) because he is a stone former & was neuterd at a very young age, Im positive that is why he is. 

We have found it very difficult to find an MC breeder who is'nt neutering kittens before they leave but I understand why alot do


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I can see both sides & this debate is something on my mind recently. I've settled for saying I will probably early neuter on my website & leaving it at that as a form of a deterrent. I may early neuter but as said already, if I am in doubt the kitten won't be going there anyway so no need for the trust issues. It is those that I am sucked in by that frighten me!


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

I had my BSH girl neutered at 6 months. I would have liked to have waited a tad longer but with an entire boy in the house I was not taking any chances!

My BSH boy is still entire at 7 1/2 months, with the breeders permission. I am waiting as long as I can. Leaving him entire will enhance the development of his secondary sexual characteristics (jowls, muscle mass etc.) as these are all testosterone dependent, but of course this has to be balanced with changes in behaviour such as spraying, aggression, pungent urine etc. that come along with sexual maturation. I ideally would leave my lad until he shows any signs of these behaviours but as he is going in to a cattery when I go on holiday, he is being castrated at New Year, as they do not take entire males in the cattery.

I think that kittens neutered at a very young age are "de-sexed" rather than sterilised. Their appearance will be different. This may not be a problem for pet pedigrees or mogs and it has a huge benefit in terms of controlling feral populations. However, as I show my BSHs, I would not buy one for showing that had been neutered before 6 months as it would alter their appearance IMO.

From a health risk point of view I think it is proven that early neutering itself poses no additional risks to kittens compared to neutering later. Modern anaesthesia is streets ahead of what it used to be, and that was always the main risk associated with surgery in youngsters.

This article may be of interest:

The Cat Group: Timing of neutering

Edit: OOPS! I didn't see the second page of replies before I posted and see others have said already what I have said, but glad we agree


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I wouldn't spay/neuter almost as soon as their eyes are open as some people are doing. I understand that rescue animals should be done before they're rehomed even if it does issues that's different. But I see the point in it with pet cats


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

By the way, just to muddy the waters slightly, there are breeds (the foreign ones like the Siamese and Orientals certainly, and I suppose others like the Balinese and Peterbalds too) where secondary sexual characteristics, in males especially, are not a desirable thing.

This has had a two-fold effect: firstly, males that do show these characteristics heavily are often penalised for them on the show-bench, and, secondly, this appearance has been bred away from in these breeds instead of towards like in the BSHs. A lot of entire foreign breed males therefore *never *develop obvious secondary sexual characteristics like the BSHs do.

I'm not saying that this should be used to justify either kind of neutering, just that every breed develops differently because of their genetic heritage, and that this should maybe be taken into account when grouping "pedigrees".

ETA: Just because I think I should put my personal opinion on this here, I am considering early spaying and neutering any kittens sold as pets in my future litters, but I'm planning to have it done after 13 weeks (I'm not sure how long after 13 weeks: still researching) - but definitely only once the second set of vaccinations has had a chance to take effect completely.

Show kittens are obviously going to have to be another story, but those kinds of owners are often people you know well and have a relationship with, so I don't think a bit of trust in that instance is uncalled for.

Unfortunately, like everyone on here I'm sure, I have heard the horror stories from my breeder friends, and the hurt and betrayal (apart from the worry) is evident when one of their kittens is used for breeding without their permission. It is always someone they trusted, or had a good feeling about (otherwise they obviously wouldn't have sold them a kitten in the first place). I really don't want any kitten that comes out of my house to be a baby-making machine for someone who doesn't know what they're doing (obviously not for someone who knows what they're doing either, but you know what I mean. :lol but I think the ignorance of someone who has had no experience and done no research compounds the situation.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> I can see both sides & this debate is something on my mind recently. I've settled for saying I will probably early neuter on my website & leaving it at that as a form of a deterrent. I may early neuter but as said already, if I am in doubt the kitten won't be going there anyway so no need for the trust issues. It is those that I am sucked in by that frighten me!


I would'nt mind not getting the GCCF pink slip untill a kitten had been neuterd


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Atlantys said:


> I am considering early spaying and neutering any kittens sold as pets in my future litters, but I'm planning to have it done after 13 weeks (I'm not sure how long after 13 weeks: still researching) - but definitely only once the second set of vaccinations has had a chance to take effect completely.


Atlantys, I would be very interested to follow this when the time comes.

For me it's the perfect compromise solution.

I do find cramming vaccination (twice), chipping, neutering and rehoming into the weeks 8 to 12 (or 13) and seperation from mum and siblings just far too much in far too short a time span for far too young an animal ... but... leaving the early neuter to >13 weeks I would definitely be very interested in and open to.

Not that it will ever really apply to any kittens I would have.... I don't see shelters ever going down this route (more's the pity). They will always I think want to have the kittens totally "done and dusted" and rehomed at week 12.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Tje said:


> dagny, I am not disagreeing with you, I do think there is LOT of development that is missed out on. I just see this as much more of a "needs must" thing in the rescue world than it ever is the pedigree world. For the record, I will continue to refuse to have any of my fosters early neutered. Although my shleter is moving closer towards this way of doing things. They did a few "experimental" litters over the summer. When it becomes standard operating procedure, I think that is the day I stop fostering kittens.
> 
> I just don't stand behind it enough. For now I can only fully support it with TNR kittens (trap, neuter & release)
> 
> And my own boy was neutered at 9 months old and he too did a fair old bit of maturing between month 6 and 9... and definitely LOADS between months 3 and 9.


I pretty much agree with you as well. I know there are some rescues who give (or at least used to give) vouchers for a free spay/neuter, so you could choose the time for yourself. But, people being people, even a free voucher wasn't enough and the shelters still got loads of kittens--so most of them make the choice for you. Every cat or kitten gets altered as soon as they are well/big/old enough to withstand the surgery.

If the choice is between having all these poor babies end up in shelters unwanted or just dumped by the road and having small undeveloped males, I'll take the latter. But I do feel bad that Pippin is a little stunted. And he's very sensitive about things---I do wonder if it wasn't all of that stress at an early age. Our girl, on the other hand, is a big thing--probably too big as our only overweight cat--and she was done around 7 weeks as well.

For what it's worth I think when we get a pedigree, we'd like to make the decision ourselves when to have it done. Especially because we're considering Maine Coons or NFCs and we'd want them to have time to mature.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Dally Banjo said:


> I would'nt mind not getting the GCCF pink slip untill a kitten had been neuterd


That is alternative I have said on my site too. Though I know as a person who showed neuters it would deter me for the wrong reason - that I couldn't show my beautiful kitten even though I had every intention to neuter. Plus it doesn't deter those that intend to breed from the cat anyway as they will not be registering the kittens if I give them the papers as they are non-active - it is whether they know what little it matters that the slip is withheld from them.....


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## staceyscats1 (Feb 17, 2008)

just read through this and wanted to add that i sometimes early nueter my kittens , however they are nuetered at 15 weeks and then go off to their new homes at about 17 weeks , all my kittens i have had early nuetered have been fine and never had any issues then or now.

When the kittens are at that age they bounce back so quick and recover better than an older cat , however like someone else had commented each breed is different and develop differently so it is more down to research and the vet you use etc 

Some have said they feel its fine in centres etc but not for pedigrees but may i add when doing early nuetering you then control what cats are to be bred from which in turn can stop these byb "bengal x maine coon , etc..."

If the likes of the RSPCA feel the need to nueter in order to stop cats getting out and adding to full centres then us as breeders could also do the same which would then stop the over filled free-adds with cross pedigrees etc 

Sometimes holding back the paperwork is not enough not that i have had this problem (thank god) but people can appear to be something they are not in order to win your approval to get that kitten they want etc you can never be 100% with anyone you can only go on first imppressions and intensive talks you have had with that buyer.


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