# Confused and really could do with some help pleaaaaase



## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Here goes,my beautiful house rabbit dora is confusing me she was mated with my male milo 31 days ago,on day 28 she pulled her fur out but just left it lying around all over the place,she still hasnt made what i would call a proper nest,but when i go in her cage to check she is ok she nibbles me and lays down for fussing.When i have been reading up it says she should be grumpy but she is more loving than ever is she pregnant or she just messing with me,this is her very first litter so really need advice and help thank you very much in advance a very confused Zoe xxxx


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

All rabbits vary as to how pregnancy affects them. She still could have a litter in the next day or so, or she could be having a phantom. I'm not going to jump on the soap box of saying don't breed your rabbit, but I would say think very carefully about it. The rescue near me cannot simply take on all the rabbits, I bet most under a year old, that people simply have got tired of.
Having a litter is a wonderful thing to watch as they grow up, and baby rabbits are incredibly cute, but there are heart breaking numbers of beautiful rabbits needing homes in rescue centres. 
You also need to realise the dark side of breeding, dead litters or kits, scattered kits, mums killing their kits, peanuts, all very upsetting. Have you bred before?


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

No this is my first time and only time this is why i am worrying so much i think lol,so with the pulling fur and leaving it all over the place will she pull more to make a real nest because she only pulled a little bit and i cant see it anywhere.I really do understand where you are coming from because most of my animals i rescued,i already have lots of homes waiting if they do survive, thank you sooo much for actually caring about my baby but i love her so much i would never hurt her or breed from her till she died like some people would i just wanted her to experience it and also myself thank you again xxxx


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

Only thing you can do is leave her to it, rabbits with either work it out or they won't.



The reason you have listed for breeding are not good enough reasons to breed I'm afraid. What breed are they? Did they come from reputable breeders? Do you know their genetic history going back at least 5 generations?


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

You sound like a very caring person but i didnt come on here for a lecture i was just looking for advice if this is whats its like i will go elsewhere for advice


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> You sound like a very caring person but i didnt come on here for a lecture i was just looking for advice if this is whats its like i will go elsewhere for advice


I gave you advice, and I can't give you any more without the answers to my questions. If you had researched breeding then you would know that my advice IS what happens 

Don't get jumpy just because I asked questions  Especially when you have decided to breed just in time for Christmas :nonod:


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

I am sorry i thought you where being funny with me, i dont want people thinking i dont care for for my animals because i do i love them all.I was looking for advice on signs of labour


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

I didnt even think of the timing and i am not asking for money for the kits i have a very large equestrian extended family lol who will take these babies when they are ready then io am getting milo castrated so they can live together because they go nuts when there not together


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

Can't change whats happened so I won't lecture you on why not to breed. 

Just leave her to it and see what happens. You may find she is a perfect mum and will get on with it so to speak or you may find she will either eat or ignore the kits. Just give her some space to do her own thing, let fate decide what happens. 

Can I just say though, whatever the outcome don't breed rabbits again unless you research it fully and have rabbits from a reputable source so you know the genetics. Its people like me and Bernie that pick up the pieces of badly bred rabbits. After christmas I'd get your doe and buck both neutered and bond them, let them be a happy couple without having babies.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

Your best to get your doe spayed after all this too, especially with the 85% chance that she could get uterine cancer by the age of 4 and then when all the hormones have died down you will need to rebond them.

Not sure if you're aware but you do know you could end up losing your doe if things go wrong?

Would you be able to answer my other questions please so I can give you an idea as to what to expect.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

If i thought for one second i would loose her i would never have done it i made a stupid mistake and am realizing that now,i didnt come on here with a bull story saying (i didnt know they where male and female)i came on telling the the truth errrrrrrmmmm what where your questions again lol


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> If i thought for one second i would loose her i would never have done it i made a stupid mistake and am realizing that now,i didnt come on here with a bull story saying (i didnt know they where male and female)i came on telling the the truth errrrrrrmmmm *what where your questions again lol*


What breed are they? Did they come from reputable breeders? Do you know their genetic history going back at least 5 generations?


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Milo (the male) is a netherland dwarf black and white looks like a cotton wool ball lol i rescued him from someone who had like 30 rabbits in her back garden he has 3 ears nobody wanted him because he was od but i love him,dora is a lop my sister actually did get her mum from a pet store already pregnant and didnt realize till too late so not sure about her dad


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Sometimes they dont pull fur til after they have had the kits, every one is different, sometimes if its a first time mum then its all a bit confusing for them. You will have to just keep a close eye on her and ask us as you go along depending on what happens. 
If she doesn't have them then it will be at least eight weeks before you can attempt at bonding them as they both need to be neutered and recovered ideally. So just think how unhappy they will be being kept apart  especially if they are loved up, are they together at the moment?
The worry is if she is pregnant and something has gone wrong, keep a very close eye on her and if she shows signs of distress then its the vets!
Have you upped her food and greens to help her produce enough milk?


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> Milo (the male) is a netherland dwarf black and white looks like a cotton wool ball lol i rescued him from someone who had like 30 rabbits in her back garden he has 3 ears nobody wanted him because he was od but i love him,dora is a lop my sister actually did get her mum from a pet store already pregnant and didnt realize till too late so not sure about her dad


In that case you can't be sure of what genetic defects they could pass on, nethies have teeth issues due to their face shape and as the doe is pet shop bred she could also carry bad teeth and other issues.

I won't lecture you because the deed is already done and as it is far too late for an emergency spay you will just have to adopt a wait and see approach.

She might make a few nests and scatter them right up to the birth and then make make the finial nest right before giving birth or she might not even make a nest. She could make a great mum or she could scatter the nest anytime up to 4-5 weeks old.
She could cull the whole litter if she is stressed or feels that the litter is compromised.
Depending on the genetics behind the doe and buck she could have peanuts (double dwarfing gene) which means they will die either straight away or a few days later.

Or the most favourable option here IMO (due to the lack of genetic information) she could be having a phantom.

All you can do is make sure she has access to lots and lots of hay and straw to help her build up a decent nest, give her extra dark leafed veg to promote milk production and then leave her to it, if she has problems giving birth make sure you get her to the vets asap just in case a kit is stuck. Don't be tempted to palpatate her to try to feel if she is pregnant because you can cause her and her unborn kits a lot of damage.

If you wish to breed in future please, please research into finding good quality breeding rabbits with a decent genetic history, although there are still big risks involved it, at least you can rule out major problems before they arise when you know what the parents can pass on.

ETA: Can I just clear up something... Your buck has 3 ears?


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

zoesav79 said:


> Milo (the male) is a netherland dwarf black and white looks like a cotton wool ball lol i rescued him from someone who had like 30 rabbits in her back garden he has 3 ears nobody wanted him because he was od but i love him,dora is a lop my sister actually did get her mum from a pet store already pregnant and didnt realize till too late so not sure about her dad


wait.... so youve knowingly bred a rabbit with deformities?? you do realise that the kits could well be deformed as a result, and not just odd things like 3 ears, they could be born with no teeth, or teeth that grow in the wrong way meaning they need monthly dentals (costing roughly £80 a time) or deformed digestive systems which would mean they would starve once born. 
even some one who knows nothing about breeding should know you dont breed an animal with deformities


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Lmao yea he got into a fight at his old house and a massive female rabbit ripped his ear, i will get pics of them both on here soon so you can see them for yourself


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

If you had waited for my reply you would have seen he is not deformed,why is it everyone wants to make me out to be a bad person on here, im not a bad person i have made a mistake if i had bred dora 10 times then you have every right to shout at me, i have come on here for advice not for you all to make me feel belittled


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

And yes i have been giving her bigger feeds,and yes i have been giving her lots of fruit and veg i do that in any way but from experience i know when yr pregers u need more veg


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

not trying to belittle you, just trying to help. its important you do certain things and avoid others, in order to look after your doe and her kits, we are just trying to get a clearer picture, but when you said he had three ears I personally thought why would you breed a rabbit that has three ears. We see now its the result of a bad accident, not a genetic/congenital problem.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> And yes i have been giving her bigger feeds,and yes i have been giving her lots of fruit and veg i do that in any way but from experience i know when yr pregers u need more veg


lay off the fruit cos its too sugary, its leafy green veg like kale and spring greens that help the best cos they are full of calcium for a healthy milk production 

Another thing crossed my mind, do you know how old she is, she might struggle more if she is an older girl and its her first litter.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Im not planning on breeding again and never was i was only going to do it the once then get them fixed so they can live happily together forever


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Thats cool she prefers her greens lol, is there a limit to what i can give her i dont want to over feed her because she will eat until she explodes lol she loves her food


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

probably needs to be on double the normal amount of pellets and greens a couple of times a day but not so much as to upset her, was the buck only in with her the once?


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> If you had waited for my reply you would have seen he is not deformed,why is it everyone wants to make me out to be a bad person on here, im not a bad person i have made a mistake if i had bred dora 10 times then you have every right to shout at me, i have come on here for advice not for you all to make me feel belittled


No one here is making you out to be a bad person at all and no one is shouting at you.

You have to understand that most of us here are involved with animal welfare and tend to lose count of how many times this very same situation comes up. Some people are willing to take the advice and criticism on board, some people will just continue to breed willy nilly.

What most do here is try to explain WHY the "mistake" is a bad choice so that people can understand the reasoning behind why rescues get so frustrated.

When rescues are full to the brim (over 70'000 rabbits in rescues across the country) and are then expected to take on board the babies that can't be sold or because the new owner is bored/can't pay for health issues you must understand why myself and others can be touchy about people that breed without research :nonod:


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

She is 12 months old but only just


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> She is 12 months old but only just


well that is one less thing to worry about then. just watch and wait, if she scatters them you may have to try and nest then yourself, but if you come on here and post then someone will be able to help


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

I do totally understand that but no one gave me a chance to explain myself,they just assumed that i would carry on breeding her until she died, all of my animals are my family i have 5 cats one dog 2 rabbits and 2 horses and i love every single one of them like they are my children and i would protect every one of them with my own life,i have homes for the babies i wouldnt have done it if i didnt have anywhere for them to go and like i said im getting them fixed after this litter so they can live happy lives together forever


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> I do totally understand that but no one gave me a chance to explain myself,*they just assumed that i would carry on breeding her until she died*, all of my animals are my family i have 5 cats one dog 2 rabbits and 2 horses and i love every single one of them like they are my children and i would protect every one of them with my own life,i have homes for the babies i wouldnt have done it if i didnt have anywhere for them to go and like i said im getting them fixed after this litter so they can live happy lives together forever


To be perfectly fair, you're the only person to have said that on this thread 
And just as a tip, don't rely on homes lined up until they are actually there. Everyone loves the idea of baby bunnies, but the reality soon kicks in for most.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Yea she was only in with milo the once because i didnt want to stress her out to much but he made a funny little noise and collapsed to the floor twice so assume that is a little rabbit orgasm lol she went straight back to her bed after


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> Yea she was only in with milo the once because i didnt want to stress her out to much but he made a funny little noise and collapsed to the floor twice so assume that is a little rabbit orgasm lol she went straight back to her bed after


She is most likely pregnant then.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

They are very reliable people they are all animal lovers too they all have horses pet sheep and so many animals you wouldnt believe so i know they are good reliable people


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

So on most websites iv been on says she should really give birth on day 31 but no later than 35 is this true and if so what do i do if i dont see kits on day 35


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> So on most websites iv been on says she should really give birth on day 31 but no later than 35 is this true and if so what do i do if i dont see kits on day 35


If she hasn't given birth by day 40 then you can be assured she is most likely having a phantom, so in that case you phone the vets and get her spayed.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

B3rnie i dont understand on last page you saying about nobody ever saying what lol i may just be being thick lol how old do the kits need to be before i get her fixed


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

Zoe you have to understand we see these situations everyday and it becomes very frustrating for us explaining why rabbits whouldn't be bred. Like Bernie said some people take the advice on board but sadly a lot throw abuse at us and carry on breeding anyway because they can't see the problem. 

We all have the rabbits best interests at heart and when we see it happening so often the frustration just gets to us so we do tend to jump on people about it to try and educate them. Many of us on here have rabbits that are the result of bad breeding so we are paying out hundreds of pounds to keep them healthy with monthly dentals etc because people don't understand that the two cute fluffy bunnies would have cute fluffy babies with lots of health issues. 

As an example I have a nerly 9 year old ex breeding doe who was going to be pts by the so called breeder for being agressive, 8 years later I still have her alive. She's not agressive in the slightest because I got her spayed. HOWEVER in the 7 years I've had her I've spent in excess of £6000 on her for dentals and other vet treatments she's needed caused by gentics. Keep that in mind, a rabbit can live anything from 8-12 years now and the people who plan on taking these babies on need to know that and how much it COULD cost them in vet bills should there be genetic faults with any of them.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> B3rnie i dont understand on last page you saying about nobody ever saying what lol i may just be being thick lol how old do the kits need to be before i get her fixed


The bit I have put in bold in your quote is the section that I'm replying to


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Lol yea i get it now i was being thick lol i just felt that was how you were seeing me but hay ho everyone has had there say and really i do appreciate all the advice and until you get a slap in the face you dont realise how much it affects others you are all fantastic people who care about animals thats the main thing


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

So she is on day 31 today and if she does have kits how old do they have to be before i can get her fixed


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

zoesav79 said:


> So she is on day 31 today and if she does have kits how old do they have to be before i can get her fixed


3 weeks after weaning so 10 weeks after the birth ideally.


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## zoesav79 (Dec 18, 2012)

Well Dora still hasn't had any babies but she is really protective of her cage and actually tried boxing me yesterday when I put her food in and she never ever does that she usually loves cuddles,I really don't understand what's going on XXX


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

How many days is it now? It may just be that a combination of her age (maturity) and the Pandoras Box of being mated and hormonal changes have just made her a bit feisty. Once she's been spayed she will settle down


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