# I need your help (Staffordshire Bull Terriers)



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

I recently put a deposit on one.... I will be picking her up in a few weeks.

I chose the breed after much deliberation and consulting a dog trainer. So I knew that they are highly intelligent and brilliant little dogs to teach.

HOWEVER - (this is where you guys come in) I am a 21 year old male, therefore all my friends and family despite knowing me very well and knowing I am a nice person have gone mental over the breed saying they are 'vicious' and 'violent' etc.

Due to research I know there is lots of propaganda out there but there is also lots of solid evidence to show that it is the owners who are the savages.

What I need is some well sourced information. So far I have this....

RSPCA chief vet Mark Evans said: Staffies have had a terrible press, but this is not of their own making  in fact theyre wonderful dogs. If people think that Staffies have problems, theyre looking at the wrong end of the dog lead! - Source

Characteristics
Traditionally of indomitable courage and tenacity. Highly intelligent and affectionate especially with children.
Temperament
Bold, fearless and totally reliable. - Source

I also plan to have the most well behaved and gentle dog ever known to man using a loving but strict training program. People shall eat their words!

Thanks guys, I lurk loads but rarely post.
Much love,
Matt


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

You usually find good solid information about the breed on breed welfare/rescue sites here is some links that as well as giving you information about all aspects of owning them and some positive stories too probably.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier Rescue
Staffordshire Bull Terrier Welfare - Devoted to Staffordshire Bull Terrier Rescue
Northern SBT Rescue
Scottish Staffordshire Bull Terrier Rescue
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club - The Parent Club
Staffordshire Bull Terriers U.K. Breed Council of G.B.and N.Ireland


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## Angels_Sin (Dec 16, 2008)

I think Staffies are fantastic dog that have had a really bad press due to idiot chavs!

Be warned though, being a young male, you're bound to get bad reactions from other people when you are out walking your dog, so you'll need to develop a thick skin! People picking up their small dogs as you pass, giving you dirty looks, telling you your dog should be muzzled is all the norm I&#8217;m afraid!

The only negative thing I would say is that it's such a shame you didn't rescue one  Rescues are over flowing with young, wonderful little staffs that desperately need good homes. If the breeder you've purchased from isn't "top of the range" so to speak, then they're just another person contributing to the massive over breeding of this wonderful dog.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

I haven't any information to add as i think Sled dog hotel covered it well, but I had the same problem when we bought our staffy and alot of my family still avoid me and i couldn't care less TBH.

I think that once they meet pupster and they see that they are loving loyal dogs they may change their mind. Another thing is perhaps show them some photos and videos of how staffies really are!

For example my boy with my other dog which also has a very bad rep on his breed.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

They are lovely dogs, but make sure the breeder health tests (one genetic condition is fatal, can't remember the exact name of it but it should be on the links SDH put up for you), and breeds for temperament and conformation as well. Good luck with your puppy purchase, look forward to seeing pics


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## JenJen22 (Sep 29, 2011)

i agree with earlier posts that they get such a bad name cos chavs/neds use them as a status symbol, but family and friends i know that have Staffordshire bull terriers, say they are the most loyal loving dogs you could have, my cousin has 2 children under 3 years old and her Staffordshire is complete gentleman with them. Its a shame that people cant see how great these dogs are!


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## Katee16 (Oct 4, 2011)

I own a 9 yr old Staff called Nasher (I didn't name him that btw).

He's the most loyal man I've ever had in my life! Nash didn't have an expert dog trainer but he is really obedient, well trained, loving, loyal, intelligent and has manners. Even now he's knocking on a bit he's still willing to learn new things. He's good with other dogs and loves children. I really couldn't ask for much more.

He's not the aggressive, child mauling, postman biting dog that the media makes Staffs out to be. Just remember people remember the bad more than the good. Deed not breed!

I'm 24yrs old now and I've has Nash since I was 16 yrs so obviously I've heard all the chav comments loads of times before but it's a small 'price to pay' for having such a loving, loyal, intelligent dog in my life.

Nash when he was a baby 









Nash out and about 


















Just look at that smile, my favourite photo!









This is him at bedtime right up next to me like this 









My old boy









Sorry for the bombardment of photos 

Good luck with your new Staffy and can't wait to see the photos


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

As the owner of a staffie, you'll have to grow a thick skin and get used to the abuse. Today, one elderly lady started screeching "That dog should be under control. Put a muzzle on!" when Terence walked past and had a quick sniff at her (he was more interested in playing with his pug friend ).He's not even 5 months old!
However, everybody that takes the time to get to know says what a lovely, gorgeous, intelligent and charming little guy he is. My parents live in Germany where staffies are on the list of banned breeds, so they weren't impressed when Terence moved in, to say the least. However, they are starting to see how lovely he is.

I know there is one really interesting study by the American Kennel Club that gave loads of breeds a character test, to see how many % in each breed would fail. Average fail rate was around 80%. However, all the bully breeds did significantly better than that. But I can't find the link. Will post when I find it. (or maybe some knowledgeable folk on here, can tell you)


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Angels_Sin said:


> The only negative thing I would say is that it's such a shame you didn't rescue one  Rescues are over flowing with young, wonderful little staffs that desperately need good homes. If the breeder you've purchased from isn't "top of the range" so to speak, then they're just another person contributing to the massive over breeding of this wonderful dog.


I wouldnt say its a negtive - rescues arnt for everyone and no one should feel they 'should of got a rescue' because there breed of choice is a staffy. Call me selfish but I know one day il have a pup from puppyhood. Its one of my pet hates when ppl ask for advice and they get 'get a rescue get a rescue' thrown at them.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2011)

good luck to you mate,im sure youl have the perfect companion.ive got a rottie,my mum said she wouldnt visit if i got one......now she loves him,ive also never had anyone say anything negative to me about him.....not to my face anyway!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I wouldnt say its a negtive - rescues arnt for everyone and no one should feel they 'should of got a rescue' because there breed of choice is a staffy. Call me selfish but I know one day il have a pup from puppyhood. Its one of my pet hates when ppl ask for advice and they get 'get a rescue get a rescue' thrown at them.


Why? Plenty of Staff pups in rescue too, plenty killed every day........ and there will continue to be if folk keep breeding em, and others keep buying em. You want a pup from a breeder, others want to rescue does not mean an opinion can not be voiced.

Anyhoo OP- lovely that you have chosen the Staff as your breed choice. I had it all when I got Dex "looks like a child eater" "why would you get a dog that can over power you" and the latest when I told my mum I was moving him over to raw food " wont that give him a taste for flesh and make him bite people" she would not have said this had I got a spaniel/Lab. :mad2:

Be prepared for all the stupid comments, and people avoiding you in the park/ on the street, not everyone will do their research, and some folk have had bad experiences due to numbskull owners, not the dogs per se.

Also be prepared for anyone else with a Staff or Staff X to immediately become your bestie, and to have a cracking little dog on your hands! Pictures ASAP please!!! :thumbup:


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## amymay01 (Sep 30, 2011)

Sadly so true that you will need a thick skin some people can be really horrid 
Im 25 and own a staffie who ive had from a pup (shes fab).
We have always had people cross the road ect but thats there choice , My dad was ok with my staff when she was a puppy but now wont come round shes older dispite the fact shes never been aggresive at all........His loss lol.
Ive always had dogs of various breeds growing up and I can hand on heart say by far my staff is the dog ive enjoyed owning the most :thumbup: I also have a five year old son who she adores


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Hey

When i told my mum i wanted a stafford she was totally against it she read all the media hyoe rubbish, day i brouhgt stanlie home she fell in love and she will put anyone in there place if they bad mouth the breed, she says she has 3 grandchilden, mine n m ohs 2 staffys n my brothers staffy. oh yh my brother got a staffy pup too lol.

If they want evidance that staffords arnt these child killing mean machines tell them too talk too staffy owners who actually raised there dogs correctly, heres some pics that staffys arnt dangeorus raised correctly.

yup this is a staffy n a cat cuddling!!!









and again









yes they get on with other dogs, thats my brothers staff









and baby bunnies


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> Why? Plenty of Staff pups in rescue too, plenty killed every day........ and there will continue to be if folk keep breeding em, and others keep buying em. You want a pup from a breeder, others want to rescue does not mean an opinion can not be voiced.:thumbup:


Why? Because the OP voiced he had researched the breed and paid deposit yet you still say 'the only negative' is he hasnt got a rescue. They made their choice and shouldnt b made to feel guilty for it. There will continue to be all breeds in rescue for evermore due to our disposable society. Not trying to be rude but just voiced my own opinin. Millie was an unwanted private rescue, i am def not anti rescue I just felt it harsh op thinking he had commited a negative action by choosing not to take a rescueroute.


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

It is nice to hear that their are people out there that are looking beyond the bad press and still considering staffies as the dog for them. 

I currently have a staffy x boxer. i used to own a staffy and my partner had a staffy when we got together, he has sadly died but lived to the ripe old age of 11years.

I love the breed, you will never find a more loyal caring dog. But unfortuanltey you do have to be prepared for the comments from others. 

My Boy Rocky has a boxer body and a staffy head and is a mix of the two breeds tempremant which means he is twice as excitable twice as loving and twice as dumb at times. 
I have a 6 year old daughter who he follows around constantly when i put her to bed he sits outside her room until he thinks its safe to leave her! 
But when i walk him i get people crossing the street to avoid him, and people literally drag their kids away from him despite my daughter walking next to him! ive had people tell me i shouldnt have him around children and that i will be the one that regrets it when he attacks my child!!! 
But i just tell them they nothing about my dog or the breed then, the only thing my dog harms is cuddly toys and the worst you could expect his to be cuddled to death! 

Basically i know im doing the best i can for my dog and i dotn care what anyone else thinks of him or me. Aslong as he with me he will always be well trained, well fed, and above all well loved, after all he is one of the lucky ones that got a good owner rather than an idiot that only wanted him as a staus symbal and ruin the good name of the breed. 

sorry went on a bit there.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Wohoo congrats on your choice - hopefully you have chosen to support a responsible breeder who health tests and socialises their puppies 

Bull breeds are the BEST! and bull terriers are the BEST-EST

Most important tasks will be socialising, socialising, socialising and tons of impulse control training as these dogs need help learning how to self-calm. Here's a link to a month long of daily training and socialisation plans which will cover the basics: SYP Month | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

Extra emphasis on dog-dog socialisation, bite inhibition and self calming for these dogs too required- best of luck and we will want pics


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

I think they make great family pets and they have such cute, smiley faces!


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Just wanted to say well done on all your research
I have worked with several staffordshires at training in Gold and they are fab little dogs.

Make sure that your chosen breeder has done the required health tests for the breed
They are
Staffordshire Bull Terrier 
1) Eye testing 
2) DNA test - HC-HSF4 (heriditary cataracts- could lead to blindness)
3) DNA test L2-HGA (neurometabolic disorder, can lead to early dementia)
Source
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf


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## Mama Sass (Sep 8, 2009)

Congratulations on choosing a staffy - you will not be disappointed!

I work at a rehoming centre and we have seen many staffy's come through our doors...most of them loving, affectionate, crazy bundles of fun!

You sound pretty sorted - my only advice would be socialise, socialise, socialise! All pups need good socialising, for terriers it is extra important but for bull breeds it is *really really *important! Put as much work as you can in and get her meeting everyone and everything - puppy classes are a must - and you won't go far wrong!

Good luck with her and don't forget to post pics when she arrives!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I had family members who threatened not to come round if got a staffie; took them all of about 30 seconds to change their minds once they met him! 

He is the funniest and most loving dog I have known.

My mum asks every staffy owner where their dog sleeps and they all say in the bed! even the 'wrong sort' looking owners love it when chatted to about their beloved dogs.


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## snipeblade (Nov 2, 2011)

i got mack my 8 week old stafford over a week ago now and he is the most gorgeous thing on the planet. i am a 55 year old fully tattooed metalhead but this little guy melts my heart. i also studied the breed before i decided and he,s my first but i feel as if he,s always been here. if you go back in time you will find that they were known as the nanny dog and thier love of children took them into the orphanage to sit alongside and nanny the babes and children, some monster eh! i shall go now but before i go i shall just say that you are a young man and as you grow with your stafford and get to my age you will find that people are still nothing more than neandethals. its just you and your dog and your dog and you forget the rest they dont count .i think that we should start a campaign to stop calling staffords staffies anyway and call them staffords in future cos the nob heads cant spell stafford.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

snipeblade said:


> i got mack my 8 week old stafford over a week ago now and he is the most gorgeous thing on the planet. i am a 55 year old fully tattooed metalhead but this little guy melts my heart. i also studied the breed before i decided and he,s my first but i feel as if he,s always been here. if you go back in time you will find that they were known as the nanny dog and thier love of children took them into the orphanage to sit alongside and nanny the babes and children, some monster eh! i shall go now but before i go i shall just say that you are a young man and as you grow with your stafford and get to my age you will find that people are still nothing more than neandethals. its just you and your dog and your dog and you forget the rest they dont count .*i think that we should start a campaign to stop calling staffords staffies anyway and call them staffords in future cos the nob heads cant spell stafford*.


PMSL i love this haha so true.


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## snipeblade (Nov 2, 2011)

EmCHammer said:


> I had family members who threatened not to come round if got a staffie; took them all of about 30 seconds to change their minds once they met him!
> 
> He is the funniest and most loving dog I have known.
> 
> My mum asks every staffy owner where their dog sleeps and they all say in the bed! even the 'wrong sort' looking owners love it when chatted to about their beloved dogs.


i hold my hands up to that, i have never let any of my dogs sleep with me but my mack is sleeping with me ,er no rumours please i live in a respectable part of the cul de sac!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

For Gods sake tell your folk it's a bleeding dog not a lion! 

Lovely lovely dogs they are and so loyal to their family, easy to train and adore children, can't think of a nicer dog to have around kids and always had Staffs when my four were kids.

Bet they'd be happy if you brought home a Malamute.........for a couple of days, now there *is* a bugger of a dog, and i'm not kidding. if only I could have my old Floyd back - he was such an angel and he passed away at 12 years old, still cry about that boy! 









Please tell them not to be so judgemental, i'm a 55 year old woman and I have had many Staffies and ALL have been lovely. Can't blame a dog for the way it's been brought up and any breed can be bad if handled the wrong way.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Can't say enough good things about the breed. Intelligent..loving and obedient dogs. Make sure you take him to puppy socialisation and obedience classes. Its so important.

Ignore the comments. Do right by the pup and your heart will forever be
Owned by a loyal...expressive..crazy... Funny... Heart melting breed .

This forum is a great place to start.

Staffys are VERY energetic but don't be tempted to over excercise your pup. As lovely as the walks are its not good to over walk them when they are young or let them do much jumping their bones just can't take it.

Enjoy your gorgeous bundle and can't wait to see photos

Couldn't resist putting a photo of my girl and the cuddles you can look forward too. That's one thing with Staffs they need cuddles


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Staffies are a victim of their own success and many many are bred as cash cows by irresponsible and unethical breeders - please make sure you go to a good one ( look via Champdogs, the Kennel Club or the main breed club The Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club - The Parent Club )

They have wonderful temperaments with humans but can be aggressive towards other dogs - especially the males and it's this trait that is played on by the numbskulls who view their dogs as extensions of their gonads - make sure you take your pup training and do loads of socialisation when young and avoid any negative experiences with other dogs if you can - this is a breed that will not back down when challenged - a useful tip is to walk your pup with a gentle very sociable and even natured older dog who can teach him/her good dog social interaction.

I wish you all the best with your new pup - my heart bleeds for this wonderful over exploited and misunderstood breed and it's so good to hear of someone prepared to break the cycle by buying ethically.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I bet they will be in love with your pup within days. Most people have a fear out of what they are fed in the press and have not met a staff in real life. Once they meet him or her I bet and hope they quickly realise how silly (in the nicest way) they were before and become like my family did real champions for the breed


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

If you had been buying a GSD in the 70's or a Rottie or Dobermann in the 80's you would have seen much the same response from the uneducated gutter press readers among the general public.

My brother, big footie fan very tattooed hard lad had a lovely English Stafford who was the best behaved softest dog you could wish to meet..

The only way to stop the prejudice is to prove them wrong..

Responsible owners will do this.. and hopefully one day the responsible ones will outnumber the cretins..


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!

There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!

I'm sure all of those children who were mauled to death by them felt VERY protected, and it's always the same reply, he's never done anything like that before, he's such a gentle dog.
The reason why they attack is because they can, it's easy for them to clamp their jaws down.

The only dog owners who don't fear them are staffie owners as their dogs can't get hurt by them. My 5 dogs have all been attacked by one at least and by responsible owners. My puppy was attacked inside his own gate by one walking past just last week, his own house! 

A woman i know from the park had them for 20 years and she said herself they always have the possibility of attacking!

They have this rep for a reason, it's true and it's not just chavss who have made it this way.

BTW I am an experienced dog owner and I love dogs, just incase people starts saying I know nothing!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!


No offence to border and rough collies but I for once certainly don't find them more pleasing on the eye than staffies - each to their own.

And I don't want to get into a petty my breed is better than yours but I know a policeman who tells me the number one recorded bites on people they have is from border collies (nipping and herding perhaps?)



> The reason why they attack is because they can, it's easy for them to clamp their jaws down.
> 
> The only dog owners who don't fear them are staffie owners as their dogs can't get hurt by them. My 5 dogs have all been attacked


Hmmm - do you really believe that staffies go round attacking cos they can? And that we are a nation in fear? there are millions (? ) of staffies in this country, well a good few hundred thousand and they don't all go around attacking things... It sounds like you have had some pretty bad luck but they are not all ticking timebombs.

My staffie was attacked by a lurcher which made him DA; yes they might have a prepensity to dog to dog agression we recognise that and thats why instead of being negative there has been lots of good advice on socialisation and bringing him up right.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


Interesting first post - Shring your anti Staffie view in posters thread about getting a staffy puppy - after all it obvious his pup was born evil . Wecome to pet forums and can I recommend you look through and read some of the pictures / stories on this thread? Then youl see how socialsed / trained Staffords behave and fit in family life - just like any balanced traine dog. As for not being pleasing on the eye thats your personal opinion. Oh and I dont own a Staffordshire terrier but love letting Millie play with them and dont spend my walks in fear of the dreaded devil dog


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


But you obviously Do know nothing OTHER than what has happened to YOU, and are ignorant to think that your experience applies to ALL Staffs. I have been bitten by two dogs in my life- a collie, and a JRT- does that mean I think they are all child killers erm no.......... EVERY SINGLE DOG has the possibility of attacking- ALL OF them.

So please take your narrow minded ill informed clap trap elsewhere. :angry::angry::angry::angry::incazzato::angry:


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Any dog can bite but not with as much power and aggression!
A JRT is not going to kill a child alone but a staffie has many times over.

It is not narrow minded it is fact. It is not just what has happened to me either. Friends and family and people on the street all have the same experiences! One small yorkie in the park was attacked three times by different staffs and now cannot leave the house, is this just stigma, I doubt it! 

Who on earth would choose a dog with aggression to other dogs and people too.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Any dog can bite but not with as much power and aggression!
> A JRT is not going to kill a child alone but a staffie has many times over.


Proof pls. And non-biased Daily Fail articles.

Your ignorance is amazing btw.


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh my god I'm being monitored because I dare to speak the truth about staffies!

The mods are checking my posts!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Oh my god I'm being monitored because I dare to speak the truth about staffies!
> 
> The mods are checking my posts!


Truth according to whom?

Where are the cold hard facts? All we are reading is your opinion, and some tales, which may or may not be true.


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

I am posting links but they keep getting checked by the mods!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> I am posting links but they keep getting checked by the mods!


That will be because you are a new member, and the forum has an automatic spam filter. Any posts by new members that have links in them, have to be approved by a mod.

You may be in for a wait in that case.

Maybe a copy/paste job? With reference to the source of course.


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Google sbt attacks and then have a look the uk and spain website is really informative, especially the end, labs outnumber staffs 4 to 1 in the uk and when did you last hear a lab attack a child?

The facts are there for people to see if they want just some would rather ignore them for their own reasons!


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

look at the news feed for this as well, the poor border collie in the sunderland echo savaged by a staff, but i'm sure you are all right that they are placid and cuddly little things, never hurt a fly would they?

If you don't want a dog with this type of stigma and yet another one out there for dog walkers to fear just get a lovely lab and then you won't have to fear!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Google sbt attacks and then have a look the uk and spain website is really informative, especially the end, labs outnumber staffs 4 to 1 in the uk and when did you last hear a lab attack a child?
> 
> The facts are there for people to see if they want just some would rather ignore them for their own reasons!


lol, so Google is your unbiased and factually accurate response? You'll be citing wikipedia next.

I would also question the fact that labs outnumber the SBT. Maybe KC registered ones, but the vast majority of SBT's being bred are not.

Just another Staffie hater (you might like to join forces with Samuel - thats if you don't already know him of course ) who posts biased opinion as fact, and has no evidence to back up the statement. Yawn.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> Google sbt attacks and then have a look the uk and spain website is really informative, especially the end, labs outnumber staffs 4 to 1 in the uk and when did you last hear a lab attack a child?
> 
> The facts are there for people to see if they want just some would rather ignore them for their own reasons!


Hmm a Labrador can bite to :scared: Who would of thought!

Horrified mum tells how her son, 3, was savaged by black lab during a family picnic in the park | The Sun |News

*Any* dog can bite if in the right set of circumstances - (In this article the woman should never of 'assumed' the dog was safe to pet!).

Tbh im shocked someone who apparently loves dogs but with such a small minded opinion on Staffords feels it right to voice such opinions on a thread made by the OP for advice on their puppy. Maybe you should start your own thread rather than hi jacking the OP's thread?


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

look at the uk and spain website, beautiful dogs and don't the children look much better scared for life!

TBH if i can put someone off having one of these dogs then great and he wanted opinions and that's what he's gonna get, if he can't handle it don't get one of these vile creatures!


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

All the OP is getting is gushing from those already in love with staffs and no other opinion and many feel the same as me just not voicing it because people like all of you don't want to hear the facts.

And google is a great source for articles, they are not made up and it's not wikipedia!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> look at the uk and spain website, beautiful dogs and don't the children look much better scared for life!
> 
> TBH if i can put someone off having one of these dogs then great and he wanted opinions and that's what he's gonna get, if he can't handle it don't get one of these vile creatures!


You forgot the pig ugly bit


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> All the OP is getting is gushing from those already in love with staffs and no other opinion and many feel the same as me just not voicing it because people like all of you don't want to hear the facts.
> 
> And google is a great source for articles, they are not made up and it's not wikipedia!


If you feel so strongly then start your own thread - Share your opinions and see how many true dog lovers share your views?

Afterall so many people the same way as you :thumbup:


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> You forgot the pig ugly bit


Yeah thanks you reminded me they are! But I think pigs are better looking so just ugly!


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> You forgot the pig ugly bit


Oh of course that rings a bell - the Vile Pig Ugly Staffy thread


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> If you feel so strongly then start your own thread - Share your opinions and see how many true dog lovers share your views?
> 
> Afterall so many people the same way as you :thumbup:


I am a true dog lover and I have had to witness this breed destroying some beloved dogs.

All dogs can bite but there is something about this breed that is repellent and I am not alone!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

A jack russel could easily kill a child, hell a Pomeranian killed a baby.

I don't own a staffy, probarlley never will but I know better than to believe nonsense about a particular breed is aggressive. 

My Alaskan Malamute could do far more harm than a staffy and she's the softest thing going.

Many breeds could do more harm than a staffy, there was even a bite test done for discovery with a pitbull, a shepherd and a rottie, A rottie came top.

My friend's maltese terrier was mauled to death right in frount of her in pure cold blood, the dogs had been told to attack her dog. Waht were they dogs? Staffies? Nope Pitbulls? Nope Rottweilers? Nope Mastiff? Nope it was two Lurchers. 

I have a friend with a staffie who is a pets as therapy dog, passed all her good good citizens awards and yet only a few months ago had to go for major surgery after being attacked. The attacked? A westie! Poor Lucy never even fought back as the westie continued to attack her while my friend tried desperately to get the westie off as the owner did nothing and surprise surprise the westie didn't have so much as a claw mark on him let alone a bite mark where as poor lucy was rushed into intensive care and luckily survived.


There was a recent attack from a Labrador and a border collie, the collie had been a family pet too and attacked the owners child.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> Oh of course that rings a bell - the Vile Pig Ugly Staffy thread


It does doesnt it 


doggie2 said:


> I am a true dog lover and I have had to witness this breed destroying some beloved dogs.
> 
> I have had dogs for 25 years and mine are loved like family and we have nursed them through everything including cancer so don't insinuate that i am not a dog lover but these beasts are not true dogs.
> 
> All dogs can bite but there is something about this breed that is repellent and *I am not alone!*


I think you'll find you are on this forum.

Off you toddle now.


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> It does doesnt it
> 
> I think you'll find you are on this forum.
> 
> Off you toddle now.


Just so you know my name is emily not sam and I can be on here and say what i feel.
I don't know that thread i was just telling the op that these dogs can do harm!


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> A jack russel could easily kill a child, hell a Pomeranian killed a baby.
> 
> I don't own a staffy, probarlley never will but I know better than to believe nonsense about a particular breed is aggressive.
> 
> ...


Sorry about all of this it is terrible, I am only saying that a gentle staffie is more the exception and not the rule!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Just so you know my name is emily not sam and I can be on here and say what i feel.
> I don't know that thread i was just telling the op that these dogs can do harm!


As can any dog. They all have teeth and ability. My brother was badly attacked by a Corgi about 30 years ago. Shall we start a hate campaign against those as well?

You have yet to provide ANY evidence to back up your ignorant posts. Telling people to Google is a cop out. There are numerous biased and inaccurate reports out there. Newspapers are infamous for posting lies and distorting facts, especially when it comes to dog attacks.

Ive lived and worked with dogs for a long time. Ive yet to meet one human aggressive SBT. Of course they exist, as does an aggressive individual in all breeds. But THAT is the exception, rather than the rule.

So you have something against the Staffie. Get over it and educate yourself, as all you are doing now is coming across as an ignorant fool.


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

OP congrats on your soon to be new arrival 

I hope you found a decent health testing breeder. I have paid the price of a poorly bred girl although has the most beautiful temperment and character, she has cost a fortune and by 4ys old uninsurable 

However I do not for a moment regret her as she is perfect to me, and competed in agility when in good health as well as completing all 3 good citizen schemes in a year 

I also have a rescue boy which whom I am working out the kinks others have put into him  although he is proving to be an amazing dog who wants to be a good dog  He is currently training in agility as well as a dog sport and proving rather amazing............... ........................ for a stafford   

You sound very much like a person who deserves the love and dedication from a gorgeous stafford as you are willing to put the effort in at the beginning  I am very much looking forward to seeing the pics


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

Stop feeding the troll 
I suggest ignore list.

To the original poster - I grew up with a staffords x, since I was 2 years old and she died two years ago aged 15. Awesome dogs, I don't think I need to add anything to what everyone else has said. 
The only thing AGGRESSIVE and VIOLENT about them is the farts 

Just make sure you socialise when young, from the day they can have their vaccines, take them to where there will be loads of dogs, go to puppy classes. Every day get them meeting dogs and other people. You will be fine.

And if you look at local rescues, pretty sure you will find a staffy pup looking for a home like yours  If you do go for a breeder, seriously, make sure they are accredited, health test and are good breeders. Don't rely on 'health checked by a vet' (not the same as TESTED), meet both parents, do research on lineage and be 100% you are buying from a quality breeder and not a backyard breeder who is contributing to the awful overpopulation of Staffords.

It is soooooo refreshing to see a young person get a stafford as a loving companion and not a dick extension. :thumbup:


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> Just so you know my name is emily not sam and I can be on here and say what i feel.
> I don't know that thread i was just telling the op that these dogs can do harm!


Well why don't you try saying it nicely instead of name calling etc? Then perhaps a sensible intelligent debate may ensure with open minds - instead of shouting the odds and coming across aggressively like you have been?

A true dog lover would appreciate all dogs for what they are - and recognise that all dogs are not for them; how can you be a true dog lover yet have such hatred for er certain dogs? No one is denying you love or care for your dogs.

And you didn't answer the fact that collies bite more people than staffies (as per a policeman I know?)

And weren't some of the dogs that killed children actually pitbull terriers a different breed alltogether? And wasn't the last child to be killed or one of them killed by a mastiff type?

Interesting fact with regard to the most popular dogs in the UK BUT arent those facts all based on KC reg dogs, would be interesting to include all dogs in there including the swathe of people who do not own KC dogs? Interesting to see if the KC reg stats are indicative of all dogs percentage wise.

Strangely I was speaking to someone the other day at my pet insurance company about how rates differ for different breeds (they won't insure american bulldogs at the moment for some reason) and he said the most unlikely breeds have high ratings such as the rough collie get alot of claims for nipping children? true or not I don't know but tis what the man said.

I am a volunteer for a rescue centre that deals mainly with staffies; and I can honestly say, hand on heart that 99% have been amazing with people that come in; more so are less good with other dogs but would say its about a 75% good to 25% don't like other dogs, from likign their own space and not happy in the company of other dogs to downright not liking at all.


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## doggie2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> As can any dog. They all have teeth and ability. My brother was badly attacked by a Corgi about 30 years ago. Shall we start a hate campaign against those as well?
> 
> You have yet to provide ANY evidence to back up your ignorant posts. Telling people to Google is a cop out. There are numerous biased and inaccurate reports out there. Newspapers are infamous for posting lies and distorting facts, especially when it comes to dog attacks.
> 
> ...


Any time i try to post a link it backfires and gets the mods on it.
The pics of the mauled kids and dogs are not enough and first hand experience.
I am sorry but why do people cross the road from a staff because of experience not lack of.

My puppy was attacked inside his own gate by one.

Theres no reasoning with people like you, you've become just like your breed of choice bullheaded!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

doggie2 said:


> Sorry about all of this it is terrible, I am only saying that a gentle staffie is more the exception and not the rule!


It's not an exception but it's not the rule.

The aggressive staffies you are meeting are owned by morons.

Staffies were bred to please and will do anything they are asked which sadly means many people make them aggressive.

It's no different from when they had Rotties, German shepherds & Dobermanns. They change breeds all the time to whatever they feel can make them look harder and can be used as a weapon.

Any dog if not raised right can be vicious it's just sadly staffies are among the favourite breed for the idiots. There's millions of staffies but not millions of attacks and also not all of those attacks are even staffies or pitbulls.

There was a news report sometime last year or year before and the news kept saying pitbull but the stupid thing was you could see the dog was maybe a lab mixed with collie or something and the person who got attacked said lab mix but again all the news kept saying pitbull, why? because it sells better than lab mix.

It's fine to be scared of a breed if you've had bad experiences, Sharpeis leave me with a bad taste in my mouth because of what happened but I would never go as far as to say all sharpeis are aggressive because I know it's not true, I know the owner shapes the dog.

The problem is when they make 'em aggressive they breed them aggressive and this dosen't help because then someone who wants one for the same reason is then going to find it easier to make these dogs look even worse.

This is why it's always important to see a dogs parents and breed from a dog with not only good health but good temperament too.

There's so many staffies who are good dogs (you'll find 'em on here too) but it's the few bad ones and the chavs who own 'em make the people who are good owners with good dogs look bad.


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

IGNORE. :mad2:


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> I am a true dog lover and I have had to witness this breed destroying some beloved dogs.
> 
> I have had dogs for 25 years and mine are loved like family and we have nursed them through everything including cancer so don't insinuate that i am not a dog lover but these beasts are not true dogs.
> 
> All dogs can bite but there is something about this breed that is repellent and I am not alone!


who the hell do you think you are!!!!

some PROOF of how lovely the staffie is with other dogs, animals and especially children!!!


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

You do not deserve my time on such a ridiculous post 



doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

doggie2 said:


> I am sorry but why do people cross the road from a staff because of experience not lack of.


Lots of people cross the road to avoid my dog and she's an Alaskan malamute.

People who listen and feed off the news are ill informed people.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Any time i try to post a link it backfires and gets the mods on it.
> The pics of the mauled kids and dogs are not enough and first hand experience.
> I am sorry but why do people cross the road from a staff because of experience not lack of.
> 
> ...


In my experience, people cross the road because they believe the media hype associated with certain breeds, and assume (quite incorrectly) that bullbreeds are ticking timebombs. Its down to ignorance, poor education, and the media led society in which we live.

Kids get attacked. Thats a fact, a sad one, but there it is. Parents and humans in general are irresponsible. But are you aware of the circumstances behind the attacks? Are you privy to details the rest of the public is not? 
Dogs do not attack for no reason. The media and people such as yourself, would just like everyone to believe otherwise, as then the hate and venom can be justified. Why look at the true causes of problem dogs, when its easier to paint an entire breed with a tarnished brush?

And oh the irony @ the bullheaded comment


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> Theres no reasoning with people like you, you've become just like your breed of choice bullheaded!


Likewise :thumbup: Quite odd that alot of the people on here dont even own Bull breeds but that must make us all bullheaded as well.

Rather than losing your rag why dont you back up what your saying with some proof?

If there are so many people out there who share your opinion then why arnt they speaking up?

Incase you havnt realised this forum is a forum of dog lovers - Big, small, hairy or hairless  If you have come on here to vent your aggrevation of your pup being attacked (Which sounds horrific) then start a thread and im sure people will react appropriately. I have witnessed my dog been attacked twice - it was horrendous (Was a Labrador btw who attacked her) and I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

The staffords owned by people on this forum are the well trained / socialised ones owned by repsinsible onwers (Why they ar eon the forums to share their passion / love for their dogs). If you are going to come on here, call people names and insult their breed then dont expect to get much support.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Best to take anything in the media with a pinch of salt (or a huge bag full). In my personal experience I don't know of any Staffords biting people. Re other dog attacks my own experience of them is 50/50, have met 3 really sweet natured dogs but 3 others that were very very aggressive to other dogs.

Something happened a few months ago, not posted before because I thought it was too upsetting. Mum of one of my sons work colleagues has a Yorkshire Terrier and was out walking it locally when a Stafford came out of nowhere and attacked it - you could see the Yorkies lung and intestines it was so badly mauled. The owner of the Stafford was absolutely distraught said it had never ever done such a thing before and he felt he couldn't trust it any more so he took it into the fields and shot it. I was so shocked I actually cried, how could you look your dog in the eyes and shoot it.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> Any dog can bite but not with as much power and aggression!
> A JRT is not going to kill a child alone but a staffie has many times over.
> 
> It is not narrow minded it is fact. It is not just what has happened to me either. Friends and family and people on the street all have the same experiences! One small yorkie in the park was attacked three times by different staffs and now cannot leave the house, is this just stigma, I doubt it!
> ...


You are so wrong it is not what dog is on the lead its what human is on the other end please dont just single out a breed it is an insult to all the good staffie owners of whom there are many,not me because they are not my breed Border Collies are and I have met a few BC that can give a scissor bite again a breed in the wrong hands like all breeds can be aggressive.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


congratultions.....one of the most ridiculous,ill informed people to ever grace this forum...cant be bothered with a proper response...your posts dot deserve it.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

albert 1970 said:


> congratultions.....one of the most ridiculous,ill informed people to ever grace this forum...cant be bothered with a proper response...your posts dot deserve it.


i was going to reply but you said what i was about too


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Will severe swearing get removed? :incazzato:rrr::incazzato:rrr:


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

albert 1970 said:


> congratultions.....one of the most ridiculous,ill informed people to ever grace this forum...cant be bothered with a proper response...your posts dot deserve it.


Here here!!!

I'm off in a bit to go home for lunch and see my little staffy. I will be greeted by a very waggy tail. Kisses and cuddles and I love her with all my heart. She is an amazing dog and she is a rescue. She was two kilos underweight and a complete mess. Why she had not been looked after I have no idea. She has always been affectionate and loving.

ALL dogs have the ability to be vicious . But don't judge Staffys because of the bad owners that this breed attracts


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> Will severe swearing get removed? :incazzato:rrr::incazzato:rrr:


not if you do this 
*******8 and ********** maybe even ********* :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> Here here!!!
> 
> I'm off in a bit to go home for lunch and see my little staffy. I will be greeted by a very waggy tail. Kisses and cuddles and I love her with all my heart. She is an amazing dog and she is a rescue. She was two kilos underweight and a complete mess. Why she had not been looked after I have no idea. She has always been affectionate and loving.
> 
> ALL dogs have the ability to be vicious . But don't judge Staffys because of the bad owners that this breed attracts


i better hide my axl im sure i will look such a chav with him now
this person is a disgrace and you have done a great job with your little staff... and myself i think they are lovely and in the right hands are adorable.... but all dogs in the right hands are too..


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> Here here!!!
> 
> I'm off in a bit to go home for lunch and see my little staffy. I will be greeted by a very waggy tail. Kisses and cuddles and I love her with all my heart. She is an amazing dog and she is a rescue. She was two kilos underweight and a complete mess. Why she had not been looked after I have no idea. She has always been affectionate and loving.
> 
> ALL dogs have the ability to be vicious . But don't judge Staffys because of the bad owners that this breed attracts


ive met some gorgeous staffords...lovely dogs....clearly they are the choice of a lot of morons....but like ANY dog...brought up properly..they are fine....i would go further....i think they are better behaved naturally than many breeds.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

albert 1970 said:


> ive met some gorgeous staffords...lovely dogs....clearly they are the choice of a lot of morons....but like ANY dog...brought up properly..they are fine....i would go further....i think they are better behaved naturally than many breeds.


Exactly. It's frustrating when people get funny about dogs without knowing truly what they are like. My husband and I are so far removed from chavy. And we get people really react to Rips web though she is trotting along or sat nicely on a lead


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


I smell... - YouTube


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Elzz said:


> i better hide my axl im sure i will look such a chav with him now
> this person is a disgrace and you have done a great job with your little staff... and myself i think they are lovely and in the right hands are adorable.... but all dogs in the right hands are too..


Thank you we work very hard to make sure she knows her boundaries and is healthy and happy.

It makes me sad to think of the sheer volume of staffs languishing in rescue centres. They are such a human focussed breed.

Like all dogs it is sad when they are in kennels without the comfort of a loving home


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## agnes2003 (Apr 14, 2009)

A good article here for you, called 'Knowing Staffies'
Knowing Staffies | Staffie Rescue

If buying in a pup, and sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, you MUST make sure he/she comes from parents that have been tested CLEAR for L-2-Hydroxyglutaric aciduria (L-2-HGA). It's a horrible neurometabolic disorder that can be passed down to pups. It includes such things as wobbly gait, tremours, seizures etc. There is NO cure for this. Make sure you see the official BVA papers for this.

Other health tests include PHPV (Persistent Hyperplastic Primary Vitreous) and 
PPSC (Posterior Polar Subcapsular cataracts) and ideally both parents of the pups will have been tested for these too.

Please, please do ensure that the pups have been home reared in the house and well socialised from the start. Meet the Mother and ask all about her, and if possible the father too. Good breeders will have bred for not only 'type' (conformation etc) but good temperament. This is so important. And do not, as you probably know already buy a pup from a Breeder that is willing to let their pups go from a young age. 8 weeks onwards is ideal.

I would contact the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of the UK The Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club - The Parent Club to ask them for information on suitable litters, and not trawl the freeads. There is a much better chance that you will find a healthy pup in mind and body from this avenue than the latter ;-)

Good luck.

Lastly, from a personal point of view, I think you have picked a fantastic breed to own. Your new dog, when he/she comes will be a loyal and fun member of your family that you will be proud to own ;-)

And on the subject of staffies being dangerous. I have owned three (two currently, we lost our oldie 5 yrs ago), and four labradors. I am sad to say that the only dog we have ever had problems from, from the 'aggression point of view', with both other dogs and people is one of our labradors :-(. However I am broadminded enough to know that such things are rare and I certainly don't and won't ever label and dismiss a breed due to a few sad experiences, ever.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


Oh.... I see what you did there.

Ignored the evidence from dog experts and decided that your limited and bias personal experiences were more relevant.

That makes total sense. I personally have only skateboarded twice. I fell off and really hurt myself both times. Therefore they must be 100% death traps. Using your logic that makes perfect sense.

Please stop trolling a serious thread about crushing the stigma that ignorant and closed minded dailymail readers like yourself are creating.

Much love,
Matt


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

MGarland said:


> Oh.... I see what you did there.
> 
> Ignored the evidence from dog experts and decided that your limited and bias personal experiences were more relevant.
> 
> ...


You'll be just fine as a Stafford parent!!!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> Here here!!!
> 
> I'm off in a bit to go home for lunch and see my little staffy. I will be greeted by a very waggy tail. Kisses and cuddles and I love her with all my heart. She is an amazing dog and she is a rescue. She was two kilos underweight and a complete mess. Why she had not been looked after I have no idea. She has always been affectionate and loving.
> 
> ALL dogs have the ability to be vicious . But don't judge Staffys because of the bad owners that this breed attracts


See under normal circumstances I would also be going home for lunch to see my waggy bummed smiley faced staffie (and my slightly insane out of touch with realilty Patterdale...can't forget Bosley) however today as with every tuesday she is at school, school for dogs where she gets to play and socialise.....no doubt as I type she is currently taking over savaging every dog there.....oh and the trainers while shes at it.
Actually what I really think is happening is she is running round like loon with her new friends, mothering her adopted puppy a jrt x and will come home happy and tired out tonight.
Not bad for a devil dog eh?


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> See under normal circumstances I would also be going home for lunch to see my waggy bummed smiley faced staffie (and my slightly insane out of touch with realilty Patterdale...can't forget Bosley) however today as with every tuesday she is at school, school for dogs where she gets to play and socialise.....no doubt as I type she is currently taking over savaging every dog there.....oh and the trainers while shes at it.
> Actually what I really think is happening is she is running round like loon with her new friends, mothering her adopted puppy a jrt x and will come home happy and tired out tonight.
> Not bad for a devil dog eh?


Aw that sounds like fun x can I work there!!!!!

Well I survived!!! My devil dog gave me savage cuddles and kisses  and to top it off emotional abuse. The face that dog pull when she knows I am leaving !!!!!!!


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Best to take anything in the media with a pinch of salt (or a huge bag full). In my personal experience I don't know of any Staffords biting people. Re other dog attacks my own experience of them is 50/50, have met 3 really sweet natured dogs but 3 others that were very very aggressive to other dogs.
> 
> Something happened a few months ago, not posted before because I thought it was too upsetting. Mum of one of my sons work colleagues has a Yorkshire Terrier and was out walking it locally when a Stafford came out of nowhere and attacked it - you could see the Yorkies lung and intestines it was so badly mauled. The owner of the Stafford was absolutely distraught said it had never ever done such a thing before and he felt he couldn't trust it any more so he took it into the fields and shot it. I was so shocked I actually cried, how could you look your dog in the eyes and shoot it.


This is shocking!!!!!
Well thats just it isn't it. a responsible owner and thought the dog was safe and then look what happens! this was not a yob it was just a usual owner! It had never done it before, the same story all the time, you never know
You can't get that poor yorkie back and this is a frequent story. 
They can be savage out of nowhere and many have experienced it before!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Posted before but worth the repetition. Just substitute Stafford for Pit Bull for the UK guide:









With the general ignorance of dog breeds identification by joe blog on the street whatever "breed" of dog is touted by the media as being aggressive will be the dog that attacked X. Not helped by media sometimes showing a stafford photograph when talking about something being attacked by lab or any other dog.


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

look at what doodles rule posted on page 7.

The man thought he knew that dog and then he attacked the yorkie!


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

his response was the same, he's never done that before and he was shocked so clearly a responsible owner yet look at what happened to that poor yorkie, you never know!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rubyblue said:


> look at what doodles rule posted on page 7.
> 
> The man thought he knew that dog and then he attacked the yorkie!


Forgotten your password for your other account?


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

then you get others saying make sure you socialize them because they can attack other dogs if not, who are these poor dogs they have to socialize with probably the likes of that poor yorkie whose lungs were hanging out of it's body!


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Forgotten your password for your other account?


no but there is not much arguing with that post is there!


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> no but there is not much arguing with that post is there!


wooooop....a moron in disguise lol!!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> his response was the same, he's never done that before and he was shocked so clearly a responsible owner yet look at what happened to that poor yorkie, you never know!


and in your eyes that tars all staffies with the same brush does it:mad2:
im sorry could you describe yourself please id like to tar you with a similar brush


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

excuse me but i didn't post that about the poor yorkie, it was someone who was defending staffies.

how is it being moronic to know what these dogs can do instead of hiding my head in the sand!

I'll let my puppy play with your well socialized staff and let his lungs get ripped out should i?


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> excuse me but i didn't post that about the poor yorkie, it was someone who was defending staffies.
> 
> how is it being moronic to know what these dogs can do instead of hiding my head in the sand!
> 
> I'll let my puppy play with your well socialized staff and let his lungs get ripped out should i?


my dogs wouldnt be allowed to play a dog that the w owner thinks like this :mad2:


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## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

Elzz said:


> my dogs wouldnt be allowed to play a dog that the w owner thinks like this :mad2:


thank god, i intend on holding on to him!


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> thank god, i intend on holding on to him!


ohh thats right my dogs maul too  sad pathetic
i pity your poor dog tbh


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Nope, would rather walk away than allow any of my dogs to socialize with an anti owner.

The anti breed owners are ones I don't trust.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> excuse me but i didn't post that about the poor yorkie, it was someone who was defending staffies.
> 
> how is it being moronic to know what these dogs can do instead of hiding my head in the sand!
> 
> I'll let my puppy play with your well socialized staff and let his lungs get ripped out should i?


albert can play with any breed....as long as its been well brought up!...are you against any other breeds?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

rubyblue said:


> was shocked so clearly a responsible owner yet look at what happened to that poor yorkie,!


The fact he was shocked means he was a responsible owner? 
A few weeks ago I watched a drunk driver smash straight into the back of a parked lorry. He was shocked, he must of been a responsible driver



rubyblue said:


> I'll let my puppy play with your well socialized staff and let his lungs get ripped out should i?


What breed is your puppy?


----------



## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

Elzz said:


> ohh thats right my dogs maul too  sad pathetic
> i pity your poor dog tbh


i wouldn't he is sleeping by my feet and is loved and looked after by his family and everyone loves him, even all the neighbours and plays with his friends at the park and has a beautiful life as have all of my dogs!


----------



## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

i don't get it, that mans dog ripped to pieces a little yorkie and it's not the breeds fault! i bet he was well socialized so why did it happen?


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

rubyblue said:


> i wouldn't he is sleeping by my feet and is loved and looked after by his family and everyone loves him, even all the neighbours and plays with his friends at the park and has a beautiful life as have all of my dogs!


But he's owned by an uneducated owner who in turn makes it worse for him.

When he's older and happens to meet a friendly staffie and you start to panic, he might just try and "protect" you by attacking this dog causing a dog fight which could result in either dog injured or dead.


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> i don't get it, that mans dog ripped to pieces a little yorkie and it's not the breeds fault! i bet he was well socialized so why did it happen?


i dont get how your tarring all of that breed with the same brush... have you shares in tar and feathers :mad2:


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> look at what doodles rule posted on page 7.
> 
> The man thought he knew that dog and then he attacked the yorkie!


Think you may misunderstand me - I really don't think he could be a very nice man to have shot his own dog, so was the problem in how he had looked after his dog. Not sure you would take time to socialise, train if you are the sort of person that could do that


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

rubyblue said:


> i don't get it, that mans dog ripped to pieces a little yorkie and it's not the breeds fault! i bet he was well socialized so why did it happen?


Ok, so what about the two lurchers that shredded my friends Maltese terrier dog to death? shall we ban lurchers too.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You should tell your friends to use their brains, do their own research and stop reading tabloid rubbish. Staffie are among the dogs once referred to as nanny dogs because of their protectiveness of children. The name has also been applied to the American pit bull terrier, which has been banned in the UK. People are ignorant, the people who make the laws are ignorant, and the people who leave any dog alone with a young child and cause the attacks that get reported are extremely ignorant.

No dog is vicious, it is how they are raised. As long as you know your breed and work with their traits, you will have a nice dog. They do have a tendency toward aggressiveness to other dogs, but I have found that the dogs that want to play with mine are mostly staffies, so that is another myth gone out the window. It is in their nature to be suspicious of other dogs, but with the right socialisation you should not have a problem.

You will have a problem with ignorant people, though, as you have already discovered.


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> Ok, so what about the two lurchers that shredded my friends Maltese terrier dog to death? shall we ban lurchers too.


dont forget the jrt that ripped my dads face.. oh and the lab that bit my friends finger nearly clean off 
ermmmm who else can we add to this list 
a pathetic attention seeking poster and i for one can not be bothered with such childish and utter irresponsible remarks of said dog owner, who should know better


----------



## rubyblue (Nov 8, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> But he's owned by an uneducated owner who in turn makes it worse for him.
> 
> When he's older and happens to meet a friendly staffie and you start to panic, he might just try and "protect" you by attacking this dog causing a dog fight which could result in either dog injured or dead.


actually he wont be meeting any staffies, i have had too many dogs attacked by what they call well behaved ones to know better.
he is allowed off the lead in the park enclosure, when a staff is near he is taken away.


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

rubyblue said:


> actually he wont be meeting any staffies, i have had too many dogs attacked by what they call well behaved ones to know better.
> he is allowed off the lead in the park enclosure, when a staff is near he is taken away.


Staffies are so common you'll meet one in the end, if you allow your dog offlead then you are just at risk and you wait till your puppy gets to the stage where it says Fck you and runs off to play with other dogs.

What breed is your dog anyway? and where are you from?

So I know to avoid you and tell other people to avoid you because you're vicious an unfriendly, plus the fact is your dog is a danger to other dogs.


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> actually he wont be meeting any staffies, i have had too many dogs attacked by what they call well behaved ones to know better.
> he is allowed off the lead in the park enclosure, when a staff is near he is taken away.


and how many other dogs do you take yours away from  very well socialised dog


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> thank god, i intend on holding on to him!


You EVIDENTLY do not know the breed AT ALL

I could reel a list f the breeds if aggressive dogs I have seen in my life but that would achieve NOTHING!!!!

It is owners NOT the dogs!!! Yes genetics will make a dog more liable to behave a certain way.

Staffys are NOT aggressive dogs. Some
Do have issues with other dogs. But a lots of the issues
Ate caused by owners.

I have had dogs snapping growling and yapping at y
Girl and she hasn't batted an eye lid.

Don't get me wrong she's perfect but
No more so than any other breed. She doesn't like being surrounded by offlead dogs when she is is on the lead and will tell them
To back off. I have had many owners let this happen it's quite intimidating as I don't know their dogs. But it's ALWAYS a back off grumble always.

I know she CAN be bossy with smaller dogs. NOT agressive just a bit too bolshy ie being too full on. and it's my job to make sure she is if possible trained out of it and also not put her in situations where she can do that.

As a responsible owner I know what she's like.

She is amazing with people totally
And utterly amazing I can kiss her face while she is chewing a bone and she's perfectly content and safe.

I trust her totally with children but as a responsible DOG owner note i say dog and not staffy !! I would never leave her alone with them.

There is so much more I could say but I am not going to slate specific breeds ...


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> Staffies are so common you'll meet one in the end, if you allow your dog offlead then you are just at risk and you wait till your puppy gets to the stage where it says Fck you and runs off to play with other dogs.
> 
> What breed is your dog anyway? and where are you from?
> 
> So I know to avoid you and tell other people to avoid you because you're vicious an unfriendly.


three of us have asked and still we dont know


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

I was also talking to my dog trainer about this.

She said unfortunately having a breed that is in the media means I will likely get blamed for any situations that occur. It is likely for small dogs to attack Staffords out of fear and anxiety.

The issue is once this happens their temperament is irrelevant and their anatomy is what matters. Any dog when attacked will retaliate and Staffords are very capable dogs. 

I would speculate that in lots of this 'My dog was attacked by a staffy' the case is more likely that their poorly trained poorly exercised and therefore anxious dog showed the first signs of aggression but due to stereotyping the staff gets the blame. 

Go take a look at the 1940s how many assaults by 'colourds' do you think was started by the Black man? It is much more likely that some fat rich white man was getting abusive and the poor chap retaliated only to be held accountable.

(please note I mean no offence to anyone of any race with this analogy, it is simply an example) 

Do we not learn from our own history?


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Anyone else like a ban?


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Nova is a tan black and white; female; SBT

I live on the south coast (Weymouth)

She is coming home to me in a few weeks! So excited  

Puppy classes already booked, I am going to take the stigma and rip it to pieces with her unbelievable sheepdog like obedience! 

Watch this space, videos to follow!


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> actually he wont be meeting any staffies, i have had too many dogs attacked by what they call well behaved ones to know better.
> he is allowed off the lead in the park enclosure, when a staff is near he is taken away.


you really shouldnt own dogs tbh.....i dread to think how they will grow up.


----------



## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Quit feeding the troll everyone! He/She is getting the reaction wanted!


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Anyone else like a ban?


ermmm not right now thanks :thumbup:


----------



## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

happysaz133 said:


> Quit feeding the troll everyone! He/She is getting the reaction wanted!


passes the time :thumbup:


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Nova is a tan black and white; female; SBT
> 
> I live on the south coast (Weymouth)
> 
> ...


Fantastic, then I also reccomend looking up the kennel club good citizen award :thumbup:



happysaz133 said:


> Quit feeding the troll everyone! He/She is getting the reaction wanted!


Awwwww but their so much fun


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

It is exactly akin to racism!!! 

Ignorance.......the only word that sums the whole thing up!!!

An amazing breed is being treated as something it really is not!!!!

My mother in law has a border collie.... I read an article
About a little boy being killed by his grandparents cOllie whilst the little
Boy was strapped in a car!!!!

Does that mean I hate all borders....NO that is one dog and ONE situation.

My in laws collie is AMAZING a truly lovely
Boy... Gentle and calm and smart..


We were out waking the other day and saw a bull terrier In tact and Barks obviously didn't like him and
Was barking. He had already Been put back on lead so nothing happened and it was only him being mouthy!!!! I've
Ne'er seen him attack a dog.!! The bill terrier was barking too but both dogs were totally under control do it was all just fine and two in tact
Males having a good macho moment.

What was my staffy girl doing during this .... Whinging and being a tart because she wanted to say hello to the big handsome bull terrier


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

SpringerHusky said:


> Fantastic, then I also reccomend looking up the kennel club good citizen award :thumbup:


Do tell....


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

RubyBlue - if you had said that where ever it is you live all the Staffies you have come across seem to be aggressive and you have had x number of attacks so you are very mistrustful and wary of them now, fairly sure everyone would have been sympathetic and understood how you felt. 

You can't say they are all like that though because its only based on the ones you know. Its like saying all teenagers are drunken idle yobs, they are not the majority are likeable young people. Up bringing has a big impact on our children, similarly with dogs


----------



## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Nova is a tan black and white; female; SBT
> 
> I live on the south coast (Weymouth)
> 
> ...


I meant to say, you sound like you are going to be a great owner, and your pup is lucky to have you!


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

happysaz133 said:


> I meant to say, you sound like you are going to be a great owner, and your pup is lucky to have you!


Thanks!

I tend to over think and over analyse everything... Hence the thread really!


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Do tell....





> The Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme is the largest dog training scheme in the UK. Its aim is to promote responsible dog ownership and in turn, enhance our relationship with our pets and to make the community aware of the benefits associated with dog ownership.
> 
> Dog training classes are also a great way to socialise your dog and meet other dog owners. So whether you have a beginner puppy or an older dog in need of a refresher class, find a dog training class to suit you with the Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme.


My springer done bronze, silver and gold and my malamute has passed her bronze and silver, she's soon to do her gold :thumbup:

for me in gives me such great pride that my dogs can be marked as good citizens and I have a piece of paper to prove it :thumbup:

Good Citizen Dog Training Scheme, the UK's largest dog training programme | The Kennel Club


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

rubyblue said:


> his response was the same, he's never done that before and he was shocked so clearly a responsible owner yet look at what happened to that poor yorkie, you never know!


THE POINT IS IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANY BREED- are you really that stupid?


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


So any creature with teeth, even a cat and they too can do vast damage.



doggie2 said:


> Any dog can bite but not with as much power and aggression!
> A JRT is not going to kill a child alone but a staffie has many times over.
> 
> It is not narrow minded it is fact. It is not just what has happened to me either. Friends and family and people on the street all have the same experiences! One small yorkie in the park was attacked three times by different staffs and now cannot leave the house, is this just stigma, I doubt it!
> ...


They are rarely aggressive to people and if they are, it is usually because they have been mistreated. Akitas are also known for their dislike of other dogs, so are many other breeds. I don't see you ranting about them.



doggie2 said:


> Oh my god I'm being monitored because I dare to speak the truth about staffies!
> 
> The mods are checking my posts!


Don't be paranoid! They are checking your posts because you are a new member, same as they do with any new member.



doggie2 said:


> look at the uk and spain website, beautiful dogs and don't the children look much better scared for life!
> 
> TBH if i can put someone off having one of these dogs then great and he wanted opinions and that's what he's gonna get, if he can't handle it don't get one of these vile creatures!


I think he wanted opinions from someone experienced in the breed, not from bigots.



doggie2 said:


> All the OP is getting is *gushing from those already in love with staffs *and no other opinion and many feel the same as me just not voicing it because people like all of you don't want to hear the facts.
> 
> And google is a great source for articles, they are not made up and it's not wikipedia!


I am not in love with the breed. I do not find them at all attractive and I would never go out of my way to own one. But I know as most true dog people do, that no breed is naturally vicious.



doggie2 said:


> I am a true dog lover and I have had to witness this breed destroying some beloved dogs.
> 
> I have had dogs for 25 years and mine are loved like family and we have nursed them through everything including cancer so don't insinuate that i am not a dog lover but these beasts are not true dogs.
> 
> All dogs can bite but there is something about this breed that is repellent and I am not alone!


Repellant to you? I find birds and reptiles repellant, but I don't go around telling everyone else they shouldn't have one.

It seems this member has been banned already, thankfully.


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

happysaz133 said:


> I meant to say, you sound like you are going to be a great owner, and your pup is lucky to have you!


Agreed. Sounds like you've put a lot of effort into it

X


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

SpringerHusky said:


> My springer done bronze, silver and gold and my malamute has passed her bronze and silver, she's soon to do her gold :thumbup:
> 
> for me in gives me such great pride that my dogs can be marked as good citizens and I have a piece of paper to prove it :thumbup:
> 
> Good Citizen Dog Training Scheme, the UK's largest dog training programme | The Kennel Club


A GROMIT FIGUREINE?!?!

Sign me up 

Looks interesting.... So far my training schedule is pretty sorted for now. But something for the future maybe.

How funny would a staff look doing agility? ^_^


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MGarland said:


> A GROMIT FIGUREINE?!?!
> 
> Sign me up
> 
> ...


Make things easy for both of you and get him in as soon as you can. A class full of young puppies with nothing to correct is a dream to teach


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> It is exactly akin to racism!!!
> 
> Ignorance.......the only word that sums the whole thing up!!!
> 
> ...


Also wanted to add my mother in law was very anti staffs...she's still nervous of them due to irresponsible OWNERS!!!!!

However she truly trusts my staffy and Rips loves
My mother in law to bits she goes hand in hand with being spoilt... If my mother in law is over it is her lap Ripley will be on!!


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I wish you the very best of luck with your Staffie pup you sound the type of owner they should all have, but unfortunately they haven't.:thumbup:


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> A GROMIT FIGUREINE?!?!
> 
> Sign me up
> 
> ...


I know I want one :lol: gromit wasn't around when I done it with my springer 

I dunno you'll have to see these vieos
[youtube_browser]PiQbH7AazVw[/youtube_browser]
[youtube_browser]kldy66xBUdk[/youtube_browser]
[youtube_browser]KkYoNRav5_w[/youtube_browser]

Good uck and always keep us updated :thumbup:


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Elzz said:


> dont forget the jrt that ripped my dads face.. oh and the lab that bit my friends finger nearly clean off
> ermmmm who else can we add to this list
> a pathetic attention seeking poster and i for one can not be bothered with such childish and utter irresponsible remarks of said dog owner, who should know better


There was a recent report of two newfoundlands attacking and killing a labrador. The gentle giants? Unheard of! But you know what? Turned out they were both pregnant and in my humble opinion, should not have been near strange dogs in that condition.



rubyblue said:


> actually he wont be meeting any staffies, i have had too many dogs attacked by what they call well behaved ones to know better.
> he is allowed off the lead in the park enclosure, when a staff is near he is taken away.


How pathetic.


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Make things easy for both of you and get him in as soon as you can. A class full of young puppies with nothing to correct is a dream to teach


I am going with the no-nonsense approach.

The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.

Train to heel off the lead from day 1 in my living area.

I also have a ton of dominance rituals:
- Scenting her food and pretending to eat it first
- Going through all doors first
- Paying her 0 attention when she begs for it
- Paying her 0 attention when I enter rooms and when she is in her crate
- NEVER allowing her on my lap or on the sofas
- NEVER allowing her into my bedroom

All this stuff is guaranteed to make her feel bottom of the pack!

Just to be clear I discussed this all with the trainer I am going to be using I did not just make it all up ^^ I am not that clever!

Seems common sense though


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MGarland said:


> I am going with the no-nonsense approach.
> 
> The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.
> 
> ...


I think you need to find a new trainer


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I am going with the no-nonsense approach.
> 
> The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.
> 
> ...


:yikes: No no no no :thumbdown:

If your trainer has supported this then you need a new trainer too.

Local Dog Trainers - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

Read this
Ask Why? Say NO! to Punitive Dog Training, Whispering and Outdated Behaviour Therapy

Dominance is an outdated method of bad dog training.


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

hawksport said:


> I think you need to find a new trainer


Why do you say that?

From what I have read if a dog feels lower in the pack than you it feels secure and therefore is better behaved.

Don't get me wrong I am a very loving owner, I am very soft with my mums dogs!

But I feel that a Stafford needs this [email protected]#! approach.


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> I am going with the no-nonsense approach.
> 
> The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.
> 
> ...


NO NO No!!! Ok now typing a message. Don't make some of tenistakes your going to set yourself up for!!!!


----------



## agnes2003 (Apr 14, 2009)

I always have grave concerns for people who insist that staffies and similar are dangerous dogs. Grave concerns because it often means that they are ignorant to the fact that any dog can be a problem and so often put themselves in dangerous situations thinking that any dog but this or that breed is AOK, when in fact this is not the case at all.

I could give you 100's and 1000's of articles/news stories from the press of depressing encounters with dogs of all breeds that have lead to tragic consequences. Often these stories are a result of people thinking, that as a breed these dogs are as safe as houses, and OK in the main, like any dog they are BUT it is a problem if people assume they are, all of them, all of the time. People relax their guard around them, take unecessary risks, leave children unattended. It's so sad. 

If you assume every bull terrier is a risk and no other dog is, then I'm afraid not only are you very blinkered, you are putting yourself and your dogs at risk everytime you go out of your front door. Ignorance is bliss until it happens to you:

BBC News - Boy scarred for life after collie dog...
&#8206;bbc.co.uk - Sep 10, 2010
... will be scarred for life after he was attacked by his grandmother's collie dog. Joshua Mann needed 200 stitches to his face following the attack 
Labrador mauls 5-year-old 
&#8206;
ABC Online - Jan 24, 2008
A 5-year-old boy who was mauled by a Labrador-cross dog in Alice Springs yesterday remains in a stable condition in hospital

Collie bites off girl's nose | Manchester Evening News -...
&#8206;Manchester Evening News - Jun 7, 2007
Piper Delaney, from Salford, was feeding an ice cream to the border collie last night when it attacked her. One of the neighbour's children found the piece ...

Family dog mauls child's face
&#8206;ABC Online - Jan 4, 2011
Police say the family labrador appears to have turned on the four-year-old and bit off a large piece of her cheek. The girl had been playing with the dog

Dog kills infant in Tulsa home | NewsOK.com
NewsOK.com - Jul 28, 2008
By Sheila Stogsdill TULSA â A 2-month-old infant was attacked and killed Monday morning after being mauled by a Labrador puppy, said Jason Willingham

March, 2007--golden retriever mauls 3 year old.

2008--border collie/golden retriever mix mauls 4 year old.

Jan, 2008--golden retriever/lab mix and Australian shepard cooperate to kill their owner.

2009--child killed by Weimeraner


*********************************************************

BAN STUPID OWNERS, not dogs ;-)


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Great!

Just as I think I have everything planned along you all come and throw a big fat spanner in the works!

I am grateful don't get me wrong! 

But this does now mean I need to spend the rest of my evening looking into this... 

More sources please guys, supporting both sides if you know of them


----------



## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

MGarland said:


> I also have a ton of dominance rituals:
> - Scenting her food and pretending to eat it first
> - Going through all doors first
> - Paying her 0 attention when she begs for it
> ...


Really? That sounds abit mental to me.


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Great!
> 
> Just as I think I have everything planned along you all come and throw a big fat spanner in the works!
> 
> ...


We'll help you the best we can :thumbup:

It's fine, not everyone know and still use the old methods but you get a much better friendship and stronger results by doing things without all the pack and dominance theory.

I'll grab some more info for you


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

hawksport said:


> I think you need to find a new trainer


Could not agree more. Please find a trainer who knows what they are doing and is not subscribing to outdated, pack leader theory. It is just this sort of dominance theory that will turn a dog aggressive.



MGarland said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> From what I have read if a dog feels lower in the pack than you it feels secure and therefore is better behaved.
> 
> ...


Staffies are no different from any other dog, and they need the same positive reward based training. Read some books by Ian Dunbar, Karen Pryor, Jean Dunbar. Do NOT watch the Dog Whisperer!

Dogs do not live in packs, they do not have a pack leader, they do not have dominance issues and they do not want to overpower you.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

MGarland said:


> Great!
> 
> Just as I think I have everything planned along you all come and throw a big fat spanner in the works!
> 
> ...


Throw all dominance based theories OUT- yes she needs you to show her guidance and leadership but not in the ways you describe, although to be fair most wont be doing her any harm :001_cool:

I personally would not use physically checking as a first line of defence either- when there are much nicer ways.

Read "the culture clash" and anything with positive based training.


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

DO NOT do the pretending to eat the food first it is their food. Teach them to be relaxed about it.

Do NOT take their food away from them this will reinforce that there is an issue and they need to protect their food!!!

Teach them manners. Make them sit and wait for their food. Consistency is the trick make them sit for you put the food down.
When the have the hang of that introduce the wait. 

You need a new trainer!!!

Staffys are SMART and CAN be pushy they need consistency and firmness and love.

All the stuff about who goes through a door first ..... twaddle.

Letting them up on the sofa can sometimes cause issues BUT ... IF it does and that's an IF you make them get off!!!!!!


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MGarland said:


> Why do you say that?





MGarland said:


> I am going with the no-nonsense approach.
> 
> The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.
> 
> Train to heel off the lead from day 1


Just to pick one thing out. If you are going to rely on physical correction, by which I presume you mean jerking the lead to teach heelwork. How are you going to teach off lead heelwork fron day 1?


----------



## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Please listen to the people on here!!!! Positive reward base training is the way forward !!!!

And will build a MUCH better base for your relationship


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Oh dear...

You guys have no idea how much this has just ruined my day... 

I was totally happy and ready to collect my puppy, now I have to start all my research all over again! :mad2:

It is for the best, and I am glad I found out!


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

See I dont think what you have said is ALL twaddle

I make Dex wait for me to go through doors first- but not for some pack related reason- just because its manners

If you do not want your dog in the bedroom/sofa- it is right to start from day 1- Staff's are very black and white.

Dex gets no attention for demanding it either- as it will create a vicious circle- wingey barky wingey barky= attention so they do it more. he also gets NOTHING if he is jumping up or generally being over excited

So its not ALL rubbish


----------



## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Zoej82 said:


> Please listen to the people on here!!!! Positive reward base training is the way forward !!!!
> 
> And will build a MUCH better base for your relationship


Yea all the training methods she gave me are reward based apart from leash training, that has both physical correction and praise/reward in the instructions. It is not some mental regime I have planned for the poor pup.

I am so confused right now.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Reward Based training works much much better. My Staffys focus is AMAZING when I am doing training with her


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Oh dear...
> 
> You guys have no idea how much this has just ruined my day...
> 
> ...


It's hard work but in the end it's worth it, you'll have a better friend and set a wonderful example for the staffordshire breed :thumbup:

Internet is being a pain but I recommend Pming CarolineH or Tripod, both are brilliant people filled with lots of knowledge to help you


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> See I dont think what you have said is ALL twaddle
> 
> I make Dex wait for me to go through doors first- but not for some pack related reason- just because its manners
> 
> ...


Yes we spoke about all of this.

The main training ethos she gave me was consistency and praise.

Ignore bad behaviour reward good behaviour. The leash physical correction says a gentle tension to put them back in position followed by praise.

Maybe I am just rubbish at describing what I have been told.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> See I dont think what you have said is ALL twaddle
> 
> I make Dex wait for me to go through doors first- but not for some pack related reason- just because its manners
> 
> ...


You're right certainly from a manners side of it.  I purely meant from a dog dominance side of it


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey is a good book. If you want to see why the type of training you were thinking of using is now outdated Dominance in Dogs by Barry Eaton is to the point and not too long. Can get both from Amazon


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

MGarland said:


> Yes we spoke about all of this.
> 
> The main training ethos she gave me was consistency and praise.
> 
> ...


i find a mixture of things work....dont be told one way is wrong...one way is right....it depends on the dog......my dog albert was very aggresive as a youngster,i have my ways of dealing with it,that i know would been frowned on here...but it works....no one else was here...so i knew best....be consistent...no matter what you do.


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## Angels_Sin (Dec 16, 2008)

Milliepoochie said:


> I wouldnt say its a negtive - rescues arnt for everyone and no one should feel they 'should of got a rescue' because there breed of choice is a staffy. Call me selfish but I know one day il have a pup from puppyhood. Its one of my pet hates when ppl ask for advice and they get 'get a rescue get a rescue' thrown at them.


I'm entitled to my view, it's something I'm passionate about and I do think it's a shame when people get staffs from BYBs (not that I'm saying thats where the OP got theirs from, just IF they did) rather than a rescue. I hear people say all the time that when they purchased their first pup it was from a BYB and how they weren't aware of the rescue situation so I don't think that pointing it out is a bad thing to do?!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

MGarland said:


> Oh dear...
> 
> You guys have no idea how much this has just ruined my day...
> 
> ...


Your trainer sounds like the one I had out about thirty years ago. She spoke of being pack leader, eating first, etc, but there was never any physical correction, everything was done with rewards. ignore bad behaviour, reward good behaviour either with a treat or lots of praise or a particular toy.

It is just that when we hear the words "pack leader" on here, we start thinking of idiots like Caesar Millan who sets the dog up to fail and then punishes it for failing. You need to set the dog up to succeed: don't ask him to do something you know he won't do or cannot understand. He gets a reward for doing the right thing. Read Karen Pryor's book about clicker training, it is an excellent way of doing things but does take time and patience.

Jerking the lead back can cause trachea damage which is why everyone on here is so against it. If the dog pulls, simply stop or turn him the other way. Then he eventually learns that he only gets where he is going if he does not pull. Also a titbit for loose leash.

But please, forget the dominance/pack leader rubbish. Just watch dogs and see if they follow one leader; they don't. I read somewhere that when a dog puts both paws on your lap it is a sign of dominance! Rubbish. He is trying to tell me something. I have also seen it mentioned that the dog's willy sticking out is a sign of dominance. Again, codswallop! My Joshua, who I lost only a month ago, always had his willy sticking out and often put both paws on my lap. He was the gentlest dog in the world and only wanted a fuss.

Just use your common sense about this. I go through the door first because I want to know what is out there before the dogs pull me off my feet to get to someone. They don't pull because they want to be in charge of the walk, they pull because it gets them there quicker. Some of these "trainers" will tell you that you have make sure you walk in front. That doesn't sound safe to me, I want to see what they are doing. Next to me is fine, thanks.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Your trainer sounds like the one I had out about thirty years ago. She spoke of being pack leader, eating first, etc, but there was never any physical correction, everything was done with rewards. ignore bad behaviour, reward good behaviour either with a treat or lots of praise or a particular toy.
> 
> It is just that when we hear the words "pack leader" on here, we start thinking of idiots like Caesar Millan who sets the dog up to fail and then punishes it for failing. You need to set the dog up to succeed: don't ask him to do something you know he won't do or cannot understand. He gets a reward for doing the right thing. Read Karen Pryor's book about clicker training, it is an excellent way of doing things but does take time and patience.
> 
> ...


not gona do the cm thing again.....but he does speak a lot of sense,also,like it or not his methods work..i think calling him an idiot is rather silly!


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

By physical correction I mean just placing them in position like when you are trying to get the dog to sit using a treat and it kinda walk backwards instead of sitting... I would push it's bum down.

Not talking about yanking the dog about, how is it supposed to learn anything.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

MGarland said:


> I am going with the no-nonsense approach.
> 
> The first second she goes on a lead, she gets physical correction for pulling, praise for walking nicely.
> 
> ...


No please find a new trainer, staffs are NO different to any other dog, my staff has never been to any classes or had any trainer as he doesn't need it. However if you want one then fair enough but the dominance theory is very out dated and is not needed.

I have brought my staff up with positive reinforcement and proper socialising and he has made an AMAZING dog! Now my other dog Chance is an american bulldog and a different ball game altogether but even he has become a well behaved dog with the same training and again no classes.

I might add that my dog is allowed on the sofa, my lap (where he is right now) both my dogs sleep on my bed and i would NOT have it any other way.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

If your staffie is anything like mine and you use physical correction you are gonig to end up with a very nervous pup, Lexi is extremely nervous hates shouting and raised voices (I never shout at her, but i do at OH  ) but excels with postive reward based training. Lexi has a wide repitoire of commands all done around reward based training, she walks to heel has amazing recall, is not allowed on the sofa, is not allowed in the bedroom all done by positive reinforcement.
In all honesty look for a trainer who does everything by positive reinforcement.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

albert 1970 said:


> not gona do the cm thing again.....but he does speak a lot of sense,also,like it or not his methods work..*i think calling him an idiot is rather silly!*




Really? I don't



MGarland said:


> By physical correction I mean just placing them in position like when you are trying to get the dog to sit using a treat and it kinda walk backwards instead of sitting... I would push it's bum down.
> 
> Not talking about yanking the dog about, how is it supposed to learn anything.


Oh, good. You seem to have the right idea. However, it is not usually necessary to push his bum down. Just hold a treat to his nose, then gradually bring it up so that his nose follows your hand. Once he has his nose up, his bum will be on the ground as he cannot put nose up and bum up at the same time. As soon as bum hits the ground, say sit. No good saying before then, as he will associate the action with the word. it is how I have always done it.

I am having a bit of trouble with this method with my new three year old, though as all that happens is she walks backwards! But she is three and has been a show dog, so not used to sitting, just standing. We will get there!


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> If your staffie is anything like mine and you use physical correction you are gonig to end up with a very nervous pup, Lexi is extremely nervous hates shouting and raised voices (I never shout at her, but i do at OH  ) but excels with postive reward based training. Lexi has a wide repitoire of commands all done around reward based training, she walks to heel has amazing recall, is not allowed on the sofa, is not allowed in the bedroom all done by positive reinforcement.
> In all honesty look for a trainer who does everything by positive reinforcement.


I think I have mis-used "physical correction"

When I say that I just mean putting them where you want them gently you know nudge them into place. Then reward...

That is positive reinforcement right. at no point do I intend to smack or pull my dog around. Everyone knows that is daft.


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## snipeblade (Nov 2, 2011)

i,m not going to comment on all that has been said, most of you know that i have my first stafford,mack ,we are cocooned and impenatrable to any neandethals. it must be something to do with the raised forehead ,large nose and gaping teeth and the fact that they are all on the raw, they have not yet found the spark.it must be the diet that brings on such ague bouts, or the only utterance as yet discovered is pronouced 'faffy' meaning staffy, oh the meek! anyway on an altogether beautifull stafford note ,look at my boy with new bed (2nd) i want to eat him ,i had him weighed today he,s 3 kg and 8 wks on friday .please could you indicate if this is about right for him my vet has no worries its me im a bit of a pussy and need a bit of reasurance from you good people.right just off to try and get rid of this furball.:arf::arf::arf:


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

Mack looks gorgeous! :thumbup:


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

snipeblade said:


> i,m not going to comment on all that has been said, most of you know that i have my first stafford,mack ,we are cocooned and impenatrable to any neandethals. it must be something to do with the raised forehead ,large nose and gaping teeth and the fact that they are all on the raw, they have not yet found the spark.it must be the diet that brings on such ague bouts, or the only utterance as yet discovered is pronouced 'faffy' meaning staffy, oh the meek! anyway on an altogether beautifull stafford note ,look at my boy with new bed (2nd) i want to eat him ,i had him weighed today he,s 3 kg and 8 wks on friday .please could you indicate if this is about right for him my vet has no worries its me im a bit of a pussy and need a bit of reasurance from you good people.right just off to try and get rid of this furball.:arf::arf::arf:


dont know about the weight thing...looks perfect and gorgeous to me:thumbup:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

snipeblade said:


> i,m not going to comment on all that has been said, most of you know that i have my first stafford,mack ,we are cocooned and impenatrable to any neandethals. it must be something to do with the raised forehead ,large nose and gaping teeth and the fact that they are all on the raw, they have not yet found the spark.it must be the diet that brings on such ague bouts, or the only utterance as yet discovered is pronouced 'faffy' meaning staffy, oh the meek! anyway on an altogether beautifull stafford note ,look at my boy with new bed (2nd) i want to eat him ,i had him weighed today he,s 3 kg and 8 wks on friday .please could you indicate if this is about right for him my vet has no worries its me im a bit of a pussy and need a bit of reasurance from you good people.right just off to try and get rid of this furball.:arf::arf::arf:


Can't help with the weight, but how anyone can look at that sweetheart and call him a "vile creature" then say they are a doglover.............the mind boggles!

If the vet is happy with his weight, then you shouldn't worry.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

snipeblade said:


> i,m not going to comment on all that has been said, most of you know that i have my first stafford,mack ,we are cocooned and impenatrable to any neandethals. it must be something to do with the raised forehead ,large nose and gaping teeth and the fact that they are all on the raw, they have not yet found the spark.it must be the diet that brings on such ague bouts, or the only utterance as yet discovered is pronouced 'faffy' meaning staffy, oh the meek! anyway on an altogether beautifull stafford note ,look at my boy with new bed (2nd) i want to eat him ,i had him weighed today he,s 3 kg and 8 wks on friday .please could you indicate if this is about right for him my vet has no worries its me im a bit of a pussy and need a bit of reasurance from you good people.right just off to try and get rid of this furball.:arf::arf::arf:


His weight sounds good to me, Harvey was a VERY large pup and at 9 weeks old was 6.5kg, he did grow very quickly though and was 16kg at 16 weeks but from then until now (9 months old) he hasn't grown much at all!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

AW!!! Mack looks gorgeous! Terence was about 3.7 at 8 weeks, so I think you're spot on.

@Mgarland: Find a trainer or puppy class that endorses the Kennel Club scheme and they will show you how to teach your pup without using any physical force. Terence does best on lots of love. It is our most powerful training tool, since he is not food oriented. All he wants is to please us (as do all staffs) and its his worst nightmare if he senses we are not happy with him for whatever reason. He just wants us to love him (and we do). Please don't try to physically overpower your dog or push him around.


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

ok just spent a hour reading this whole thread. and glad certain someones have been banned. thats all im gunna say on that bit. 

As for the training, i have found that you can have the best laid plans in the world but be prepared to change them, certain things i tried just didnt work with Rocky and i had to adjust them slightly to get him to understand what i was wanting of him. 
I have to say though that the people on here have been invaluable to my training, which is still on going. they never think any questions are silly and there is always someone with advice for you. and i can honestly say its thanks to this advice that i now have a dog that sits, lays down, stays on his bed when we are eating, no longer jumps up, and waits patiently when i arrivve home for his hello fuss. I have owned Rocky (stafford X boxer) for about 6 months now (private rescue) and he has come on in leaps and bounds. 

my point do what you think (from your research) is best for your dog, and if you have any questions there will always be someone here to offer a helping hand. 

good luck with your pup and i cannot wait for lots and lots of pics.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

With 68 staffies being PTS every day, I'm shocked that someone would buy and encourage breeding with this breed in the current climate. 

To be perfectly honest, I feel in this situation that a true dog lover would be exploring the rescue centres first. 

There are prob dozens of staffie pups in rescue at the moment. 

Who is this breeder? Where did u hear about them?

At the age of 21 your life will change massively over the next 10 years. What of you end up in a flat with a landlord who wont accept pets? Or a girlfriend who hates dogs?

I may not be very popular with people on here who dislike rescue people speaking out, but I think it needs to be said. 

Come and spend a day with me down at the rescue. Then maybe you can understand why I am saying this.


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> With 68 staffies being PTS every day, I'm shocked that someone would buy and encourage breeding with this breed in the current climate.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I feel in this situation that a true dog lover would be exploring the rescue centres first.
> 
> ...


unfortunaltey not everyone is able to rescue for several reasons. i personally couldnt use a rescue centre for the type of dog i wanted as they deemed that as i live in a flat, and have a yound child i am not suitable. But Rocky is perfect with my daughter, although i am always teaching her how to act around dogs as i feel she needs to learn as much as rocky does. and living in a flat is no problem for him, he gets a hour long walk every morning and evening and as soon as i get in from work he is taken straight outside for a quick wee wee before dinner. but despite me being able to offer a dog a loving forever home where they wouldnt want for anything i was unable to use a rescue centre because of the rules. 
My point being dont judge him because he chose a breeder as we dont know the full circumstances as to why he made this decision.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

mama_abz said:


> unfortunaltey not everyone is able to rescue for several reasons. i personally couldnt use a rescue centre for the type of dog i wanted as they deemed that as i live in a flat, and have a yound child i am not suitable. But Rocky is perfect with my daughter, although i am always teaching her how to act around dogs as i feel she needs to learn as much as rocky does. and living in a flat is no problem for him, he gets a hour long walk every morning and evening and as soon as i get in from work he is taken straight outside for a quick wee wee before dinner. but despite me being able to offer a dog a loving forever home where they wouldnt want for anything i was unable to use a rescue centre because of the rules.
> My point being dont judge him because he chose a breeder as we dont know the full circumstances as to why he made this decision.


I bet he doesn't know that 68 staffies are PTS everyday. People need to be aware.

I keep hearing about rescues not homing for the reasons that you have said. But we rehome with children and in flats, subject to a home check ...


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I bet he doesn't know that 68 staffies are PTS everyday. People need to be aware.
> 
> I keep hearing about rescues not homing for the reasons that you have said. But we rehome with children and in flats, subject to a home check ...


well i can honestly say if i could have found a rescue that would have done i would of rescued, i do agree with you about rescueing. But unfortuatley you also have to think if everyone suddenly stopped buying from breeders where would the pups end up? unfortunaltey rescues are not for everyone, but would be nice if a few more atleast tried rescue centres first.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> I bet he doesn't know that 68 staffies are PTS everyday. People need to be aware.
> 
> I keep hearing about rescues not homing for the reasons that you have said. But we rehome with children and in flats, subject to a home check ...


I mentioned this on another thread, but 30 years ago my brother had to go all the way to Manchester from London to get a staffy as they were so rare. How did they get to be so bloody popular and discarded in that time?

When I think about how he cared for and babied that dog, named Sid, it breaks my heart.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

doggie2 said:


> I'm sorry, you don't want a dog with this stigma then don't get a staffie!!!
> 
> There are plenty of other smart and loyal dogs out there that lets face it are much more pleasing to the eye, border and rough collies to name a few!
> 
> ...


love go get a f***ing life im sick of idiots like u with nothing better too do then talk crap about a breed u obviously know bugger all about, i have 2 staffys so yes i so know what im talking about.

take a running jump. Moron


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

mama_abz said:


> well i can honestly say if i could have found a rescue that would have done i would of rescued, i do agree with you about rescueing. But unfortuatley you also have to think if everyone suddenly stopped buying from breeders where would the pups end up? unfortunaltey rescues are not for everyone, but would be nice if a few more atleast tried rescue centres first.


No other breed is treated as badly or suffers as much as the staffie. If people are supporting the breeding of them then they need to be fully aware.

A 21 year old lad, does not inspire me with confidence. It's not personal, only that his situation is not gping to be stable due to his age.

But in answer to your question about buying puppies.. If unwanted pups
Went into rescue and breeders didn't get paid, then they would stop breeding.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> love go get a f***ing life im sick of idiots like u with nothing better too do then talk crap about a breed u obviously know bugger all about, i have 2 staffys so yes i so know what im talking about.
> 
> take a running jump. Moron


i think you should try and say what your really thinking!


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> No other breed is treated as badly or suffers as much as the staffie. If people are supporting the breeding of them then they need to be fully aware.
> 
> A 21 year old lad, does not inspire me with confidence. It's not personal, only that his situation is not gping to be stable due to his age.
> 
> ...


I agree people need to be fully aware of these situations, it breaksmy heart the amount of staffies in rescues, and i play the lotto every week in the hope that one day i will have the money to buy land where i can rescue all the unwanted staffs out there, pipe dream i know but if i could i really would! i lovet he breed and think its such shame.

as for the age concerns, im 27 now and my situation could still change at any moment for a variety of reasons, but i would always make sure that Rocky was with me and happy. i dont think its fair to judge someone on age alone. he seems to of done alot of research and given this alot of thought which is more than most 21 year olds would do when wanting a dog.

and.....ok so all the unsold pups have gone into rescue breeders stop breeeding and everyone rescues. in time wouldnt the breed die out as no body would be breeding them? this is just my brain working over time, im not trying to start a arguement or anything its just the way my brain works


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> love go get a f***ing life im sick of idiots like u with nothing better too do then talk crap about a breed u obviously know bugger all about, i have 2 staffys so yes i so know what im talking about.
> 
> take a running jump. Moron


Let it all out love


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> No other breed is treated as badly or suffers as much as the staffie. If people are supporting the breeding of them then they need to be fully aware.
> 
> A 21 year old lad, does not inspire me with confidence. It's not personal, only that his situation is not gping to be stable due to his age.
> 
> ...


Sorry but you shouldnt judge people because of their age, i was 18 when i got stan n my oh was 17 when he got hooch and i would in all honestly rather be homeless but have my pets than be in a house without them, i personally have always paid for anything stan wants as with my oh n hooch. so you cant say because of their age they are not going too be stable im 21 now, n have a full time secure job in no debts and would rather be without and be able too treat my pets and give them all they need.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I was 22 when I got Lexi, own house, stable job..... would have been a bit pee'd if I couldn't have Lexi because of my age.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> Let it all out love


LOl, im so sick of these trolls and the gob s***e.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> I was 22 when I got Lexi, own house, stable job..... would have been a bit pee'd if I couldn't have Lexi because of my age.


Not all of us youngens are irresponible idiots


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Nope...as my 'Lexis School report' thread shows my girls done me proud!!!

I can't be that much of an irresponsible idiot, shes turned out ok!!


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Not all of us youngens are irresponible idiots


I think it should eb judges on the person not the age. as by the time i was 18 i was living in my own home, full time job and had a stable life. 
But my brother is 19 now and although he has he lives with his girldfriend he is struggling to find work at the mo and is not in a totally stable situation. so would not be responsible for him to own a dog just yet.

But then on the other side my nan and grandad have a dog she is 5 now but would that be considered irresponsible as (god forbid) they could have medical problems or even die?


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

mama_abz said:


> I think it should eb judges on the person not the age. as by the time i was 18 i was living in my own home, full time job and had a stable life.
> But my brother is 19 now and although he has he lives with his girldfriend he is struggling to find work at the mo and is not in a totally stable situation. so would not be responsible for him to own a dog just yet.
> 
> But then on the other side my nan and grandad have a dog she is 5 now but would that be considered irresponsible as (god forbid) they could have medical problems or even die?


Very good point, as the saying goes age aint nothing but a number.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

mama_abz said:


> I agree people need to be fully aware of these situations, it breaksmy heart the amount of staffies in rescues, and i play the lotto every week in the hope that one day i will have the money to buy land where i can rescue all the unwanted staffs out there, pipe dream i know but if i could i really would! i lovet he breed and think its such shame.
> 
> as for the age concerns, im 27 now and my situation could still change at any moment for a variety of reasons, but i would always make sure that Rocky was with me and happy. i dont think its fair to judge someone on age alone. he seems to of done alot of research and given this alot of thought which is more than most 21 year olds would do when wanting a dog.
> 
> and.....ok so all the unsold pups have gone into rescue breeders stop breeeding and everyone rescues. in time wouldnt the breed die out as no body would be breeding them? this is just my brain working over time, im not trying to start a arguement or anything its just the way my brain works


I don't think the breed would die out, but it might just go back to being rare as it was thirty years ago when there were only a few very responsible breeders. But it is the same argument as always; people stop buying from bad breeders, puppy farmers, byb and they would stop breeding, but as long as people think they are getting a bargain, it just won't happen. Breeders need to be controlled by the local authority, but the government is too busy banning breeds they have heard are nasty.



xshelly_stanliex said:


> LOl, im so sick of these trolls and the gob s***e.


Well this one has been banned, twice I believe.


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't think the breed would die out, but it might just go back to being rare as it was thirty years ago when there were only a few very responsible breeders. But it is the same argument as always; people stop buying from bad breeders, puppy farmers, byb and they would stop breeding, but as long as people think they are getting a bargain, it just won't happen. Breeders need to be controlled by the local authority, but the government is too busy banning breeds they have heard are nasty.QUOTE]
> 
> Good point. as i said it just the way my brain works i get questions that pop in and i need to find out the answer.  so thank you for answering me


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

mama_abz said:


> and.....ok so all the unsold pups have gone into rescue breeders stop breeeding and everyone rescues. in time wouldnt the breed die out as no body would be breeding them? this is just my brain working over time, im not trying to start a arguement or anything its just the way my brain works


the vast majority of staffords in rescues are bred by BYB's, you will rarely find one bred by an ethical breeder because they take back dogs they have bred if the need ever arises....so if the gp only bought puppies from the reputable breeders then the breed wont die out ....plus the staffie rescue crisis would be solved

these good breeders are the ones who do the relevant health testing for the breed aswell.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Not all of us youngens are irresponible idiots


I'm now 22 and am damn proud of my boys! Me and the OH thought that our ages would possibly go against at the rescue when we applied for Chance, but when they realised that we have our own house, my OH works hard for our money and when they assessed Harvey they realised that we try bloody hard to do everything we can for ours dogs regardless of our age. We quite happily go without for the pair of them and will continue to do so, so that they get everything they want and need.


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> the vast majority of staffords in rescues are bred by BYB's, you will rarely find one bred by an ethical breeder because they take back dogs they have bred if the need ever arises....so if the gp only bought puppies from the reputable breeders then the breed wont die out ....plus the staffie rescue crisis would be solved
> 
> these good breeders are the ones who do the relevant health testing for the breed aswell.


thanks for answering my question, i always like to find an answer as then i learn something i didnt know before (obviously). 
And without sounding a lil dumb what does BYB stand for? just so i understand fully.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

mama_abz said:


> thanks for answering my question, i always like to find an answer as then i learn something i didnt know before (obviously).
> And without sounding a lil dumb what does BYB stand for? just so i understand fully.


byb stands for back yard breeders


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> With 68 staffies being PTS every day, I'm shocked that someone would buy and encourage breeding with this breed in the current climate.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I feel in this situation that a true dog lover would be exploring the rescue centres first.
> 
> ...


Per head capita there are more dogs destroyed a day in Ireland plus I also work in rescue with bullies so I get the sentiment but I don't agree, not toally anyway - now I don't want to open a can of worms here but anyway 

I feel that we must support good breeders (health tests, active socialisation plans, family rearing environment, responsible placement etc. etc.) in order to maintain the health of dogs. I am a pedigree fan and I am a bullie lover. And I want to maintain everything that is good about these types of dogs - responsible breeders will strive to do this.

IMO we need to support responsible breeders and responsible rescues so that byb breeders, puppy farmers and unscupulous breeders are the ones punished.

I love when someone chooses to bring a bullie into their life in a responsible way becaus it means that these dogs can have another ambassador to show how great they really are


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

pogo said:


> byb stands for back yard breeders


oh that makes sense.  cheers.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

mama_abz said:


> thanks for answering my question, i always like to find an answer as then i learn something i didnt know before (obviously).
> And without sounding a lil dumb what does BYB stand for? just so i understand fully.


back yard breeder the type of breeders who are unlikely to do any health testing, dogs are probably not kc registered, they breed from poor examples, no puppy contracts,etc etc... basically they only breed for the wrong reasons...mostly ££££


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

The whole byb thing confuses me sometimes, i think that stan was from a byb, she did no health tests he isn't kc reg, but she wasnt in it for the money from my point of view, he was £150 yh he wasnt kc reg but even for a non kc reg staff they could still be sold for more than this. if i ever got another pup i would deffinantly make sure it had, had all health tests kc reg etc etc. but i wouldnt change my decision getting my boy as i love him with all my heart.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

tripod said:


> Per head capita there are more dogs destroyed a day in Ireland plus I also work in rescue with bullies so I get the sentiment but I don't agree, not toally anyway - now I don't want to open a can of worms here but anyway
> 
> I feel that we must support good breeders (health tests, active socialisation plans, family rearing environment, responsible placement etc. etc.) in order to maintain the health of dogs. I am a pedigree fan and I am a bullie lover. And I want to maintain everything that is good about these types of dogs - responsible breeders will strive to do this.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid I can't be very objective when it comes to staffies in rescue. I just cannot support someone supporting the breeding of them.

I realise that's just my opinion though


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> I'm afraid I can't be very objective when it comes to staffies in rescue. I just cannot support someone supporting the breeding of them.
> 
> I realise that's just my opinion though


I totally understand


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## snipeblade (Nov 2, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> The whole byb thing confuses me sometimes, i think that stan was from a byb, she did no health tests he isn't kc reg, but she wasnt in it for the money from my point of view, he was £150 yh he wasnt kc reg but even for a non kc reg staff they could still be sold for more than this. if i ever got another pup i would deffinantly make sure it had, had all health tests kc reg etc etc. but i wouldnt change my decision getting my boy as i love him with all my heart.


they are without doubt two beautiful STAFFORDS!:thumbup:


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Just to address the comments about my age. I won't quote them all it takes too much time.

I have had troubles due to my age to be honest though my home situation is very stable. 

My house mate and I are both 21. I am an IT Tech and he is an Accountant, we live in a 3bed house with a garden. 

I knew earning the trust of breeders would be hard as even these BYB (back yard breeders) you speak of want to know a bit about you, couple that with the breed and you have a recipe for suspicion! 

I knew this would happen, after my initial round of phone calls and a few people just putting the phone down when they realised my age I decided I needed to take action.

So I went to meet breeders armed with a character witness from the director of the company I work for and one from the trainer I had a chat with, that soon makes peoples doubts fly away. 

The fact that my age should even be considered is stupid but I knew it would be due to various factors. So again, I took at the stereotype with preparation!



On a lighter note, thanks for all the support and so on. I am slowly becoming a part of this community, so get used to me... My team liquid account has around 2000 posts so you have all that to look forward to! 

Much love.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Just to address the comments about my age. I won't quote them all it takes too much time.
> 
> I have had troubles due to my age to be honest though my home situation is very stable.
> 
> ...


Are you actually for real by the way?

Something about your posts seems a bit odd to me...


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Are you actually for real by the way?
> 
> Something about your posts seems a bit odd to me...


I am odd.

All this is 100% true yes, I am a very dry sarcastic person in the real world and sometimes this does not come across well in my writing on forums.

Pictures will follow in December when I get my pup.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Good, well done you  

Can't say i'd fancy a pup for winter time though :lol: toilet training is a nightmare around this time. 

Got any pics of the parents? would love to see 'em :thumbup:


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I am odd.
> 
> All this is 100% true yes, I am a very dry sarcastic person in the real world and sometimes this does not come across well in my writing on forums.
> 
> Pictures will follow in December when I get my pup.


To the best of my knowledge you have not addressed anyones suggestion regarding rescuing.

Out of interest, why is this?


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> To the best of my knowledge you have not addressed anyones suggestion regarding rescuing.
> 
> Out of interest, why is this?


I wan't my own blank canvas to work with, this is my first dog of my own and although I know not all rescue dogs are jabbering messes you never really know what you are getting.

In an ideal and unselfish world I would go for a rescue dog yes agreed. The same could be said for parenting 'new children' when there are thousands in care, it is probably selfish but it is the decision I came to.

Many people will be disappointed but you can't please everyone.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I wan't my own blank canvas to work with, this is my first dog of my own and although I know not all rescue dogs are jabbering messes you never really know what you are getting.
> 
> In an ideal and unselfish world I would go for a rescue dog yes agreed. The same could be said for parenting 'new children' when there are thousands in care, it is probably selfish but it is the decision I came to.
> 
> Many people will be disappointed but you can't please everyone.


As I said, I don't agree with it, but that is my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree. But as long as u r not supporting irresponsible breeding and therefore contributing to the rescue crisis...


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> As I said, I don't agree with it, but that is my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree. But as long as u r not supporting irresponsible breeding and therefore contributing to the rescue crisis...


I am trying to do the best I can! It is still a learning curve though as this thread proves...


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

This thread reminds me of Jason.

I kinda miss him


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I am trying to do the best I can! It is still a learning curve though as this thread proves...


Trying your best to find a reputable breeder is not good enough with any breed. But especially a breed where so many are being PTS.

By all means ask advice about training etc.

But a breeder is either reputable or not. If this breeder has not been recommended by the kennel club or advised by a rescue then you shouldn't be buying one


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Trying your best to find a reputable breeder is not good enough with any breed. But especially a breed where so many are being PTS.
> 
> By all means ask advice about training etc.
> 
> But a breeder is either reputable or not. If this breeder has not been recommended by the kennel club or advised by a rescue then you shouldn't be buying one


Thanks for your input I appreciate it.

Can I recommend you don't you language like "You shouldn't" though as it is bound to make people get defensive. Maybe saying you should "reconsider" instead.

That is neither here nor there though, I bought my pup from BYB (back yard breeder) for many reasons. Now I am aware lots of puppies end up in rescue but the way I see it... by taking on one of these dogs I am -1 from that number.

The house has 5 dogs, 2 cats and a small girl, which makes it perfect for my puppies early stages in life. The dogs have been screened and checked by vets and are loved dearly by the owners.

People may frown upon buying the dogs from a BYB and one could argue that supply and demand is the reason for their existence and so buying one adds to the problem. I would agree, but the home environment and the care that was taken when breeding them was more than satisfactory for me.

I also took my vet friend with me (farm vet but it's all the same? )

I hope this addresses your concerns, though I feel I have already fallen foul of your judgement by not rescuing.


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

A nosey question but will they be people about in the day to look after him when/if you're both at work?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Thanks for your input I appreciate it.
> 
> Can I recommend you don't you language like "You shouldn't" though as it is bound to make people get defensive. Maybe saying you should "reconsider" instead.
> 
> ...


A staffie BYB goes against everything I believe in. But at the ripe old age of 21, I'm sure you know what your doing


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Gragface said:


> A nosey question but will they be people about in the day to look after him when/if you're both at work?


We go home for Lunch


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> A staffie BYB goes against everything I believe in. But at the ripe old age of 21, I'm sure you know what your doing


See now thats just patronising and rude.

I address you politely and I get this...


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

To every member who had gushed over this new puppy...

You have just condoned BYB. Something which I know many of you disagree with. You experienced members/pet owners should know better than to support a staffie BYB. Now this person believes it is ok because many of you have supported his decision. 

Our Rescues are full of staffies from BYB's and puppy farms!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> We go home for Lunch


How do you propose to toilet train, socialise and feed a puppy 4 times a day if you work full time, and only go home for lunch?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

To be fair until this point he had not said he was buying from a BYB............ I really hope your pup and its parents have been properly health checked.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> How do you propose to toilet train, socialise and feed a puppy 4 times a day if you work full time, and only go home for lunch?


I am taking around about a month off work starting the day I take her home. The trainer I consulted assured me I can have her toilet and crate trained in this time.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> To be fair until this point he had not said he was buying from a BYB............ I really hope your pup and its parents have been properly health checked.


All checked and ready to rock and roll!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> To be fair until this point he had not said he was buying from a BYB............ I really hope your pup and its parents have been properly health checked.


Nobody asked! They got side tracked by the troll and then as soon as rescue is mentioned you see a large number of people say "not everyone is suitable for rescuing". Usually the people who don't rescue.

If people had asked they would have got an answer ....


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

If this breeder asked a lot of questions about your circumstances, they do not sound like my own idea of a back yard breeder. To me, those people are just puppy farmers on a smaller scale and they would not have bothered asking you anything.

Someone who is breeding their own pet, in their own house, just once is not in my opinion a back yard breeder.

Given that you are 21, are out at work all day and it is your first dog, it is unlikely that a rescue would have let you have one anyway. I know some people are critical of anyone who chooses a pup over a rescue, especially when the breed is so discarded, but I for one would never recommend a rescued dog to a first time dog owner.

You should have some time off when you first get your puppy. It is not fair to leave him even if you are coming home lunchtimes. It would also be wise to employ someone to come in during the morning and afternoon to play with the puppy, at least at the beginning. Once you can walk him in the mornings and evenings as well, it could work out.

I wish you luck with him, but you are going to get a lot of stick being so young and having this particular breed. Many people read too much of the media, like our former poster on here, and decide that this breed is nasty. To be honest, I have never met a nasty one but I did have a golden retriever pounce on my puppy once!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> I am taking around about a month off work starting the day I take her home. The trainer I consulted assured me I can have her toilet and crate trained in this time.


Your trainer sounds like an idiot.

You also can't crate a dog all day, even with a short break in the middle. Its cruel and creates behavioural issues.

How well did you research the breed beforehand? Are you aware how high energy they are, and how that energy can affect their behaviour and temperament if not given a sufficent outlet?


MGarland said:


> All checked and ready to rock and roll!


By checked, people mean were the dam and sire DNA tested for hereditary conditions. Not a simple once over by a vet.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

I personally don't think that people should get puppy's if they are working full time. I feel bad enough leaving Ripley an she is nearly 5.

The idea of leaving a puppy at home fr 7 or 8 hours a day in my opinion is not acceptable.

I don't want to offend anyone who does but thats my belief on the matter.

I'd give anything to have a puppy but until I am at home mostly the time to be able to give it the attention is deserves I can't and won't 

I will more than likely be rescuing. I personally think there are enough unwanted staffies out there that need looking after.

About two weeks after getting Ripley I had been out gardening the front of of the house and she was out there with me. A few day later I got a knock on the door from some chavs with a male staffy asking if we wanted to breed her. Politely told them to jog on and had her spade as soon as possible ( she was producing milk when we got her... We thnk she had been kicked out after her last lot of pups)


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Nobody asked! They got side tracked by the troll and then as soon as rescue is mentioned you see a large number of people say "not everyone is suitable for rescuing". Usually the people who don't rescue.
> 
> If people had asked they would have got an answer ....


Yea I have no problem with people setting me straight on things that is fine.

I took every precaution I could!

You personally may have an ethical concern which is fine for you to express, but you can impose your personal beliefs on someone else.

Puppy farming is horrible! But this is a family home I am buying from. With both mum and dad as family pets and a pair of two year old direct siblings... (Here is one I made earlier litter )

They have been screened and as I said I took my own vet with me who said the parents and pups were in excellent condition.

I personally feel I fulfilled my obligation to buy responsibly.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> You're trainer sounds like an idiot.
> 
> You also can't crate a dog all day, even with a short break in the middle. Its cruel and creates behavioural issues.
> 
> ...


Could not have said it better....

Keeping a pup... Especially a staff crated all day is Cruel

It may be a bitter pill to swallow but it's the truth


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> You're trainer sounds like an idiot.
> 
> You also can't crate a dog all day, even with a short break in the middle. Its cruel and creates behavioural issues.
> 
> ...


I did research the breed yes. I am aware they need lots of exercise that is why I picked a Stafford. She will get a walk in the morning, then 4 hours at home then a little walk at lunch time (more of a token walk admittedly) followed by another 4 hours followed by a walk and training in the evening.

Couple that with weekends of fun, she will have a wonderful life!

I said screened, she has had her blood tests yes. She is a healthy little girl


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> Yea I have no problem with people setting me straight on things that is fine.
> 
> I took every precaution I could!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if it offends but how can you justify getting a puppy for it to spend 7 or 8 hours during the day in a crate and I presume the night as well!!!!!!!!!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> I did research the breed yes. I am aware they need lots of exercise that is why I picked a Stafford. She will get a walk in the morning, then 4 hours at home then a little walk at lunch time (more of a token walk admittedly) followed by another 4 hours followed by a walk and training in the evening.
> 
> Couple that with weekends of fun, she will have a wonderful life!
> 
> I said screened, she has had her blood tests yes. She is a healthy little girl


So you are going to spend a month with her, then suddenly leave her on her own all day? Have you considered how to prepare her for this?

What do you propose she does in that time to keep herself amused and stimulated? What is she decides to eat all your furniture, or chew your walls? What if she decides she going to bark or howl non-stop all day? How are you going to deal with that situation?

Its not the puppy that is tested, its the parents. Have they been tested for:
HC - Hereditary Cataracts 
L-2-HGA - Hydroxyglutaric Aciduria 
PHPV 
(Persistent Hyperplastic Primary Vitreous)
PPSC - 
(Posterior Polar Subcapsular cataracts)
Eye Testing Clinics 
Example Test Certificates L-2-HGA and PHPV/HC 
(from Staffordshire Bull Terriers U.K.)


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> If this breeder asked a lot of questions about your circumstances, they do not sound like my own idea of a back yard breeder. To me, those people are just puppy farmers on a smaller scale and they would not have bothered asking you anything.
> 
> Someone who is breeding their own pet, in their own house, just once is not in my opinion a back yard breeder.
> 
> ...


Yea I am dealing with this right here in the thread

"Stupid kid knows nothing"

It's arrogance at the highest level from people who judge me on some simple forum posts, they don't know me at all.

I over think things to the point of despair, take a look at my post history. I have literally been considering this for 18months now. So when people tell me I don't know anything I get kinda upset.

Experience is something I have 0 of granted... How am I supposed to obtain it without getting a dog?

People are way to quick to judge me.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I bought my grandaughter's spaniel from a pet owner who just bred her bitch and dog occasionally. He is a lovely little dog, nice temperament, very healthy. It is not always a disaster.

I do believe my retriever came from the same sort of home, but I didn't know anything then and I was lucky. He never had any health problems till he was old and he lived to the ripe old age of 14, with a wonderful temperament.

But so many do breed staffies just for the money, and that is why there is always criticism about it.

I did get hip scores for my retriever, as even then I knew that was important on a big dog.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Well I will be putting her in her crate for small periods of time while I am there to build her up slowly. 

I have done research on separation anxiety and how to go about preventing it. 

I am aware this won't be a doddle of course.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> So you are going to spend a month with her, then suddenly leave her on her own all day? Have you considered how to prepare her for this?
> 
> What do you propose she does in that time to keep herself amused and stimulated? What is she decides to eat all your furniture, or chew your walls? What if she decides she going to bark or howl non-stop all day? How are you going to deal with that situation?
> 
> ...


My guess is a crate


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

I am here because I want advice. 

Please keep that in mind when posting and try to word things constructively please. I am being polite there is no reason you can't be.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

MGarland said:


> Yea I am dealing with this right here in the thread
> 
> "Stupid kid knows nothing"
> 
> ...


Unfortunately so many people do come here for advice, having already decided what they are going to do and just want agreement, that we are naturally cautious.

And yes, people are way too quick to judge. I for one wish you every ounce of love with this little dog and if you need any advice, please don't be put off coming here for it.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> I am here because I want advice.
> 
> Please keep that in mind when posting and try to word things constructively please. I am being polite there is no reason you can't be.


The idea of leaving a pup in a crate all day is so so sad 

Crates are not universally accepted as a positive method of dog training. Steven Lindsay, in his Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training compares a dogs attachment to a crate with the Stockholm Syndrome.[1]

*** "Many advocates of long-term crate confinement claim that dogs are phylogenetically preadapted to live in a crate. These conclusions are based on various fallacious assumptions derived from inappropriate comparisons with the use of dens by wild canids and feral dogs. In reality, a crate has far more in common with a trap (or grave) than it does with a den. Further, a den actually has far more in common with a home, the natural environment of a dog, providing access to communal indoor and outdoor living spaces via a two-way door. An obvious distinction between a den and a crate is physical entrapment, isolation, and inescapability. While the den provides the mother with the seclusion and security that she needs to deliver and care for her young, it does not restrict her freedom of movement, as the crate does. Instead of providing a safe environ for her young, the crate serves the express purpose of separating the dog from social attachment objects. After learning that the crate is inescapable, however, dogs appear to treat the crate in a paradoxical manner analogous to persons affected by the Stockholm syndrome; that is, they appear to form strong attachments with the crate, which becomes the place they identify as home."


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

She will have free run at night. 

The crate is for when we are not at home at all for a few reasons really.

1- Destruction of our stuff 
2- Protection of any intruders (I have to consider this unfortunately)
3- Feeling safe and secure, from the research I have done the dog will prefer only a small area when alone as this makes them feel safe and secure. Run of the entire house could make them feel anxious. (Happy to be put right here)


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I think this thread has everything :lol:

Oh except Spaying/Nuetering :lol:


I found a crate helpful when toilet training my 6 month old springer who also had major separation anxiety. I'm now trying to crate train a 5 year old malamute and it's bloody hard, why? because she has to go in a crate to emigrate with me.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Unfortunately so many people do come here for advice, having already decided what they are going to do and just want agreement, that we are naturally cautious.
> 
> And yes, people are way too quick to judge. I for one wish you every ounce of love with this little dog and if you need any advice, please don't be put off coming here for it.


I understand that but I have done the 'prior to getting the dog' advice bit as thoroughly as I can before I decided to get one.

Most people I consulted both on here and in the real world agreed it was viable.

My situation has changed slightly from when I first posted but that was around 18months ago.

I personal feel the puppy could do a lot worse than me.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> She will have free run at night.
> 
> The crate is for when we are not at home at all for a few reasons really.
> 
> ...


If she can have the run of the house at night, when you are asleep and unable to to supervise her actions, why can't she be during the day?

Do you really think that 8-9 hours stuffed in a cage is really fair? Have you seen the behavioural impact on animals kept in confined conditions with no mental stimulation? Its literally drives them insane.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> I am here because I want advice.
> 
> Please keep that in mind when posting and try to word things constructively please. I am being polite there is no reason you can't be.


I'm sorry I'm coming down on you about the crates.

When I got Ripley from the foster careers She was kept in a crate and had saws on her legs and nose from compulsive licking and rubbing against the cage. Granted she was not in a secure environment but the idea of an energetic dog being kept in a cage for the majority of the day is so so sad.

I know there are advocates of crates on here. I truly believe if I used a crate I would be asking for trouble. Great idea for a hidy hole for the dog but to be closed in one all day.

Night time puppy training using a crate i agree with it is generally a great way to house train your pup


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

SpringerHusky said:


> Oh except Spaying/Nuetering :lol:


Yes. I shall be doing this. From what I have read and etc this can only be a good thing.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I did research the breed yes. I am aware they need lots of exercise that is why I picked a Stafford. She will get a walk in the morning, then 4 hours at home then a little walk at lunch time (more of a token walk admittedly) followed by another 4 hours followed by a walk and training in the evening.
> 
> Couple that with weekends of fun, she will have a wonderful life!
> 
> I said screened, she has had her blood tests yes. She is a healthy little girl


as Nonnie has said its the sire and dam who should have been screened not the puppy, please ensure all the relevant tests have been done so you wont be supporting yet another unethical staff breeder...why not contact the breed club for advice

hope you dont take this the wrong way but i have to say that crating any dog for 8 hours a day is inhumane.


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> If she can have the run of the house at night, when you are asleep and unable to to supervise her actions, why can't she be during the day?
> 
> Do you really think that 8-9 hours stuffed in a cage is really fair? Have you seen the behavioural impact on animals kept in confined conditions with no mental stimulation? Its literally drives them insane.


Well it is something to consider once she is trained certainly.

It is not 8-9 hours. It is 4 hours with a gap in between...

I will see how things go I honestly thought the dog would actually prefer the crate when alone... If this turns out not to be the case, other arrangements can be made.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> If she can have the run of the house at night, when you are asleep and unable to to supervise her actions, why can't she be during the day?
> 
> Do you really think that 8-9 hours stuffed in a cage is really fair? Have you seen the behavioural impact on animals kept in confined conditions with no mental stimulation? Its literally drives them insane.


I see lots of them. Usually end up with us when they hit adolescence and they become uncontrollable. One of these reasons is over use of the crate. It can create a manic puppy if over used. People then struggle to deal with this issue and in they come.

Working full time Is tough with an adult dog, let alone a puppy.

Fostering would have been a good option here. But then what do I know


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

MGarland said:


> Yes. I shall be doing this. From what I have read and etc this can only be a good thing.


You'd think that but that's another discussion that shares different opinions :lol:

At the least you arn't wanting to breed so can't be that bad 

You're 21, this is your first dog and your trying so as far as I see that's a hell of allot better than most people older than you.

I'm only 23 and was around 21 when I got Maya but i've proven myself now i'm more than capable of being a good owner.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

My staff would be like a coiled spring if I caged her all day!!! Simple as that.

I can't express this enough. I know you are excited and delighted about the pup.

You say this pup could do a lot worse than you I'm sure it could BUT it could also have a home with people who will be at home the majority of the time

This pup may get issues through being left in a cage so much.. I am only trying to want you of this .

I would LOVE a pup but there are several reasons why I'm not getting one yet.

The main one is both my husband and I work full time... LOTS of other reasons . Only had Rips since feb etc


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> If she can have the run of the house at night, when you are asleep and unable to to supervise her actions, why can't she be during the day?
> 
> Do you really think that 8-9 hours stuffed in a cage is really fair? Have you seen the behavioural impact on animals kept in confined conditions with no mental stimulation? Its literally drives them insane.


well said Nonnie and so true, crating them for hours and hours is just another form of cruelty


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

SpringerHusky said:


> You'd think that but that's another discussion that shares different opinions :lol:
> 
> At the least you arn't wanting to breed so can't be that bad
> 
> ...


Yea I am trying my best. I will make mistakes, I have tried my best to perform damage limitation but as many have pointed out to me I have much to learn!

Hopefully I can do myself justice, failure is not an option.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2011)

have i missed something?the op,seems like a sensible responsable person,just the sort of dog owner we would all want....why are people giving him a hard time....he just wants advice.....good luck to you mate...youl do fine...and will have a very lucky little dog!:thumbup:


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> Well it is something to consider once she is trained certainly.
> 
> It is not 8-9 hours. It is 4 hours with a gap in between...
> 
> I will see how things go I honestly thought the dog would actually prefer the crate when alone... If this turns out not to be the case, other arrangements can be made.


...and then another 4 hours. So thats 8 hours in a small cage with nothing to do. Not to mention being alone all night. So thats 16 hours out of 24 that your puppy has no contact, nor stimulation, nor socialisation.

I wouldnt even contemplate a cage if i were you. The psychological impact on a puppy could have major long term affects. Id be looking at dog proofing an entire room, or better yet, look at doggy day care.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> Well it is something to consider once she is trained certainly.
> 
> It is not 8-9 hours. It is 4 hours with a gap in between...
> 
> I will see how things go I honestly thought the dog would actually prefer the crate when alone... If this turns out not to be the case, other arrangements can be made.


It still adds up to a lot of hours a day!!!


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

albert 1970 said:


> have i missed something?the op,seems like a sensible responsable person,just the sort of dog owner we would all want....why are people giving him a hard time....he just wants advice.....good luck to you mate...youl do fine...and will have a very lucky little dog!:thumbup:


Personally I think it's wrong to crate a puppy all day!!!!!!!!!!

Really wrong


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## MGarland (Aug 23, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> ...and then another 4 hours. So thats 8 hours in a small cage with nothing to do. Not to mention being alone all night. So thats 16 hours out of 24 that your puppy has no contact, nor stimulation, nor socialisation.
> 
> I wouldnt even contemplate a cage if i were you. The psychological impact on a puppy could have major long term affects. Id be looking at dog proofing an entire room, or better yet, look at doggy day care.


A dog proof kitchen is possible, if it turns out to be better for the dog then that is what I shall do.

I appreciate the feedback, until you guys said something I honestly thought it was better for the dogs mental health. I am glad to be proved otherwise.

Please take no offence when I say this but does someone know the name of a study/paper that supports your arguments as I would find it handy to have a look at.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> A dog proof kitchen is possible, if it turns out to be better for the dog then that is what I shall do.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback, until you guys said something I honestly thought it was better for the dogs mental health. I am glad to be proved otherwise.
> 
> Please take no offence when I say this but does someone know the name of a study/paper that supports your arguments as I would find it handy to have a look at.


Crates are not universally accepted as a positive method of dog training. Steven Lindsay, in his Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training compares a dogs attachment to a crate with the Stockholm Syndrome.[1]

*** "Many advocates of long-term crate confinement claim that dogs are phylogenetically preadapted to live in a crate. These conclusions are based on various fallacious assumptions derived from inappropriate comparisons with the use of dens by wild canids and feral dogs. In reality, a crate has far more in common with a trap (or grave) than it does with a den. Further, a den actually has far more in common with a home, the natural environment of a dog, providing access to communal indoor and outdoor living spaces via a two-way door. An obvious distinction between a den and a crate is physical entrapment, isolation, and inescapability. While the den provides the mother with the seclusion and security that she needs to deliver and care for her young, it does not restrict her freedom of movement, as the crate does. Instead of providing a safe environ for her young, the crate serves the express purpose of separating the dog from social attachment objects. After learning that the crate is inescapable, however, dogs appear to treat the crate in a paradoxical manner analogous to persons affected by the Stockholm syndrome; that is, they appear to form strong attachments with the crate, which becomes the place they identify as home."


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

MGarland said:


> Please take no offence when I say this but does someone know the name of a study/paper that supports your arguments as I would find it handy to have a look at.


I wouldn't have thought so. I imagine any such study would be considered cruel.

Its also very easy to find studies that back up all points of view, so highly unreliable on the whole. If i thought caging a dog for 24 hours a day was fine and dandy, i bet i could find a study to back that up.

I dont see why age is relevant either. I was 19 when i got my first Staffie.

Its research, time and commitment that matter. And the ability to admit when one has made a mistake.


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## Zoej82 (Apr 19, 2011)

MGarland said:


> A dog proof kitchen is possible, if it turns out to be better for the dog then that is what I shall do.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback, until you guys said something I honestly thought it was better for the dogs mental health. I am glad to be proved otherwise.
> 
> Please take no offence when I say this but does someone know the name of a study/paper that supports your arguments as I would find it handy to have a look at.


Sounds like you do really care about the pup x


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> Personally I think it's wrong to crate a puppy all day!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Really wrong


i agree,but hes here for advice....im sure he wont be doing it!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

MGarland said:


> All checked and ready to rock and roll!


What has been checked? Im not talking about a quick look see from a vet, but genetic testing etc


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Zoej82 said:


> Personally I think it's wrong to crate a puppy all day!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Really wrong


Yes how would anyone feel being in a cage all day.
Alfie is not left alone very much, always has companionship but when he is we leave him out and he has never touched 1 thing in the house, just sits on the sofa.

And he sleeps next to my bed in his bed and leaves everything alone!
If you show them the right way they will pick it up and behave themselves!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

I've never had any issues with crate trained dogs. They don't stay in there for long and soon have the run of the room, plus it's useful in later life to have a dog that's happy in a crate.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

We crate trained our puppies when they were young, they still use them to sleep in sometimes and sometimes I fasten them in...like when a man came to repair a broken pipe in the kitchen as I didn't want them to help - and they always chill out in their crates. They sometimes go in them when we go out, and sometimes overnight, as puppies, they always slept in them at night, with the obvious toilet breaks etc, but now they're a nearly 2 and 1 1/2 we don't need them to prevent accidents or keep them in one place. They've learned the rules and we trust them in the house (kitchen and utility room only if we're out).

My neighbours crate their dogs, one side all day except for a wee break, the others all day. It's not fair.

When we got our first dogs, we had 6 weeks off work to prepare them, and also to get them used to being left etc and were planning a dogwalker to come 3 times a day whilst we were at work, and they were in their crates until they were older, then gradually work that back to twice a day and once a day, which is what we were expecting them to need by now. That was the plan.

When we actually had got the puppies I just could not leave them like that, when they were there, in the flesh, their little cute puppy faces peeping out of the crates at you and squeaking with excitement when we came home...I simply could not leave them that long. We pay for daycare, which takes up all my spare cash, when we are at work, except on Friday when I work a half day, and they stay at home (super-tired after 4 days of playing with dogs all day and an early morning off-lead walk before we leave). On a Thursday night they sleep in our room too, cos otherwise I worry that they're alone all night - then part of the day.

I simply would not have it any other way. They are my best friends and I love them and I am simply not happy with leaving them all day with nothing to do - yeah, Fridays they stay at home for 6 hours (when they were younger this included 2 pee breaks) in the morning, they sleep cos they're tired, I can cope with that. But daily? No way...I would not want to think of them sleeping, bored, alone all day on their own. 

Everyone has to do the best with the time and money they have available, but we have a duty to do the very best for our dogs - we chose them to live with us, and for me, I feel to sad to leave them alone all day. I know plenty of people who do, and it works fine for them, but I can't do it. Getting a puppy and working full time is possible - but you've got to make sure they're getting the companionship and time that they need.

I am certain that the OP can offer a great home to a dog, and dog ownership is fantastic, and you're doing the right thing to find out as much as you possibly can, but at the end of the day they are all different living creatures, with different personalities and we are all different too, and the main goal is finding a way where you can live together and both get what you need from the relationship and be happy - there is no set formula for this, we all do things differently and it works for all of us in our own way - but you must have the wellbeing of the dog at the heart of all that you do.

Naomi x


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Ok here's the reality - your pup will not physically be able to remain clean and dry until around 3 months and that's only if you actually teach it to be - if you leave it in a crate for 4 hours without the opportunity to relieve itself outside it will poo and wee inside the crate - and lie in it ...and smear it all over the bedding and wire mesh . You will then come home in your lunch break and have to clean all this up, feed the puppy and presumably give it some excercise and stimulation - you then put it back into the crate for another 4 hours and it will wee and poo again ...with the same result ....you'll come home after a long hard day at work and have to clean everything up again - during the 4 hours that it is left alone it will howl and bark in distress - if you have no neighbours this may be fine but otherwise ?

it is not feasible or indeed kind to leave a young puppy for this long locked in a crate - a kinder solution would be to buy a puppy pen like this :

Dog Health - Puppy Run - Big Foot

you will still come back to mess but at least the puppy will be able to toilet in one area away from where it sleeps - it will also have access to water and be able to play with toys .

for more information and tips on puppy rearing and training look at my 'advice to puppy buyers' page from my website

http://www.simplesite.com/grondemon/25407905

just one more thing ...I would strongly advise you to buy from only breeders who do all the recommended health tests and who provide contracts to protect the future of their pups and are experienced enough in the breed to give lots of after sales advice and care - as many on here have siad this is a breed in crisis - by only buying from ethical breeders you can ensure that your pup does not ever add to the problem.


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

snipeblade said:


> i,m not going to comment on all that has been said, most of you know that i have my first stafford,mack ,we are cocooned and impenatrable to any neandethals. it must be something to do with the raised forehead ,large nose and gaping teeth and the fact that they are all on the raw, they have not yet found the spark.it must be the diet that brings on such ague bouts, or the only utterance as yet discovered is pronouced 'faffy' meaning staffy, oh the meek! anyway on an altogether beautifull stafford note ,look at my boy with new bed (2nd) i want to eat him ,i had him weighed today he,s 3 kg and 8 wks on friday .please could you indicate if this is about right for him my vet has no worries its me im a bit of a pussy and need a bit of reasurance from you good people.right just off to try and get rid of this furball.:arf::arf::arf:


Aww, how utterly, utterly gorgeous.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I would HIGHLY recommend getting a staffie from a reputable breeder....this is coming from someone (who by my own admittance) stupidly didn't. I have spent more in vet fees on Lexi in her 2 and half years of life than my parent have spent in the whole of their jack russells 15 and half years.
She has issues with her eyes and reoccurant eye infections, ear infections, skin infections, food allergies, issues with her wind pip, irritable bowel syndrome and a sensitive stomach. Don't get me wrong she is a happy little dog and as 'healthly' as she can be but it takes a lot of hard work, monitoring what she eats diet supplements she can have no pressure put on her neck constant daily health checks and like I say, the vet fees.
I adore my girl, but in hindsight wish I'd done it properly.


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi McGarland, I've read through this thread with interest & taking you at cyber value you do come across as a very genuine, going to be caring owner of your little girl. You seem willing to take advice offered & its great that your taking a month off work to settle your girl in to your home life.

I agree that you should find a positive reward trainer & that crating your girl all day while your at work albeit with a break will not be fair on your pup. Why not puppy proof your kitchen & put the crate in there while your at work, but leave it open so she can come & go in the room as she wants. Along with toys she likes & I'd deffo invest in a kong filled with titbits then frozen before giving it to her while your at work. At least until she gets used to being on her own for 4 hours at a time, which to be fair is long esp for a young pup. She will get used to it though & it will become normal for her but please please please don't leave the wee mite locked into her cage for this length of time. 

If you are willing to put in the time & effort required it is possible to have her housetrained within a month but it will be hard work & you'll have to be prepared for at least the occasional accident after this time.

I'd like to wish you all the best for you & your new puppy & your future fun times & life ahead.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

I have also just read through the whole thread again, and I agree, you come across as genuine.

I would also urge you not to put your little girl in the cage all day long. The break in the middle of the day really isn't good enough. As somebody pointed out, she won't be able to hold her bladder for that long. If you can't puppy proof a room, you could get a puppy pen, where she could move around and play etc. I don't know about your financial situation, but consider doggy daycare once or twice a week. They'll also help train her which can only be a bonus.

Also, please don't get annoyed with folk on here. We all really care about our dogs and only want to help. Bear in mind, sometimes the written word comes across a little harsher than intended. 

For all this lovely advice, we only ask for pictures of your wee girlie as payment. Aren't we good


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Ahem i'd just like to say i've read through most of this thread, not the whole 17 pages mind. All i can say is its not the dog but the thing on the other end of the lead that is responsible for the way a dog turns out, very much like bringing up children, you get out what you put in


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## Lottieb01 (Oct 13, 2011)

doggie2 said:


> Google sbt attacks and then have a look the uk and spain website is really informative, especially the end, labs outnumber staffs 4 to 1 in the uk and when did you last hear a lab attack a child?
> 
> The facts are there for people to see if they want just some would rather ignore them for their own reasons!


Weellllllll the world first face transplant was carried out on a women that was attacked by a Lab. 
Oh and its not in the news the minute a collie attacks someone but as soon as a staff (mainly as it fell in to the wrong hands) bites its slung in to a media frenzie.

My staff would stick by my side 24/7 and is the most loyal pooch I know, If you dont like staffs then dont look at the thread....SIMPLES


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lottieb01 said:


> Weellllllll the world first face transplant was carried out on a women that was attacked by a Lab.
> Oh and its not in the news the minute a collie attacks someone but as soon as a staff (mainly as it fell in to the wrong hands) bites its slung in to a media frenzie.
> 
> My staff would stick by my side 24/7 and is the most loyal pooch I know, If you dont like staffs then dont look at the thread....SIMPLES


The poster has already been banned, under both IDs I believe. How anyone can have dogs for 25 years and still think there are vicious breeds is beyond me, but each to his own.

Staffies are, I believe, well known for their loyalty and their love of children, but as you say, people are stupid. If ever there is a dog attack, there is usually some idiot human behind the trouble.

Look at that poor little girl last year. She asked the owners of a tied up Akita if it was ok to stroke him, and they cheerfully said yes. Poor kid ended up with half her face missing. Turned out the idiots had only had the dog two days from a rescue and had no idea how it would react. I would be dubious about allowing a child to go and stroke any dog that was tied up, but one they didn't even know themselves?

I have had my newfie only four weeks. She is three and a half and has never had any contact with children. I am being very careful if a child asks to stroke her, even though I know that she is really sweet and the gentlest breed in the world, because I don't know her that well. I have only had one child so far, and I told her to be very careful as I did not know how she would react. Luckily, fuss is fuss no matter who provides it!


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## Lottieb01 (Oct 13, 2011)

I realised this after I posted, what alot of posts on this thread, op has had some great advice though, I hope he found his perfect little friend.


Yes it's very difficult I think alot of children feel its ok to just go to a strangers dog to stroke him/her but in their innocence they don't realise that dog might be scared, threatend or anxious. I've always taught my neice and nephew to always ask the owner if the dog is ok with strangers stroking them, and never to approach an unattended dog.


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## lillynharry (Jan 23, 2010)

Iv'e met many staffs just out walking my 2 dogs, (shihtzu and ckc). Ive never crossed a road yet and I've never ever seen/met/heard of a staff attacking a child or other dog round here.

A neighbours child was attacked by a bordercollie about 5 yrs ago. The child was treated in hospital, she was left permantly scarred. The story didn't even make the local news! I suspect many dog attacks don't make the headlines, however when a staffs involved....It does...! Nothing against bordercollies either, we had 2 when i was growing up.The dog that attacked wasn't treated right by it's owners, from what i was told at the time but i don't know the details as i moved away.

Anyway im sure the ops new pup will be lovely. I met a staff a couple of months ago called Pepsi. He played with my 2 dogs fine. He was a gorgeous black and white boy. His owner said his 6yr old neice named him and he absolutley loved people. 

I also knew of a stafford that shared his basket with a house bunny, lol!:thumbup:


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

My dads fiance has 5 little dogs, 1 chihuahua, 1 yorkie, 2 chi mixes and a dachshund, her dogs (apart from the yorkie) are very DA, one of them has even attempted to attack my JRT and bite relatives, they hate other dogs and other people. It really annoys me when dogs that are considered to be too small to do much damage are allowed to get away with this behaviour :mad2: it is really frustrating, I have had a tonne of arguments with her over this.
One example, my sister also has a JRT who once snapped back at 1 of the chi mixes, dads fiance is screeching the house down, telling my sister to buy a muzzle, her dog is dangerous etc, 5 minutes later 3 of her dogs are nipping at my sisters JRT, barking, yapping and just being plain twits to him but dads fiance brushes this off "_ooh they are babies, they are just showing him whos boss" _ now this really p*ssed me off.

The point is all dogs, even teeny weeny ones have the capabilty to be aggressive it's just that some people turn a blind eye if it's a "toy" type dog which is highly unfair, I bet a hell of a lot of toy dog attacks/bites have gone unreported, especially ones that have occured within the family


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## Lottieb01 (Oct 13, 2011)

Narrow minded people unfortunately can't think much outside if their own self indulged bubble

It was such a shame to read those comments

Staffords are such a wonderful breed, I was quite poorly a while back with a very bad sickness bug, Leo did not move from my side for 24 hours unless it was to have a poo and wee lol, such loyal creatures x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lottieb01 said:


> I realised this after I posted, what alot of posts on this thread, op has had some great advice though, I hope he found his perfect little friend.
> 
> Yes it's very difficult I think alot of children feel its ok to just go to a strangers dog to stroke him/her but in their innocence they don't realise that dog might be scared, threatend or anxious. I've always taught my neice and nephew to always ask the owner if the dog is ok with strangers stroking them, and never to approach an unattended dog.


Trouble is, this little girl did ask! How can you tell a child it is fine to stroke a full grown dog you have only had for two days? That is the most irresponsible thing I have ever heard and of course it was the dog that suffered for it, along with cries of aggressive Akita!



Goldstar said:


> My dads fiance has 5 little dogs, 1 chihuahua, 1 yorkie, 2 chi mixes and a dachshund, her dogs (apart from the yorkie) are very DA, one of them has even attempted to attack my JRT and bite relatives, they hate other dogs and other people. It really annoys me when dogs that are considered to be too small to do much damage are allowed to get away with this behaviour :mad2: it is really frustrating, I have had a tonne of arguments with her over this.
> One example, my sister also has a JRT who once snapped back at 1 of the chi mixes, dads fiance is screeching the house down, telling my sister to buy a muzzle, her dog is dangerous etc, 5 minutes later 3 of her dogs are nipping at my sisters JRT, barking, yapping and just being plain twits to him but dads fiance brushes this off "_ooh they are babies, they are just showing him whos boss" _ now this really p*ssed me off.
> 
> The point is all dogs, even teeny weeny ones have the capabilty to be aggressive it's just that some people turn a blind eye if it's a "toy" type dog which is highly unfair, I bet a hell of a lot of toy dog attacks/bites have gone unreported, especially ones that have occured within the family


Is this the same woman who thinks that her dogs' food has nothing to do with their health? I rest my case!


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## Lottieb01 (Oct 13, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Trouble is, this little girl did ask! How can you tell a child it is fine to stroke a full grown dog you have only had for two days? That is the most irresponsible thing I have ever heard and of course it was the dog that suffered for it, along with cries of aggressive Akita!
> 
> I was refering to children in general. They should seek premission from the owner, its best having a child ask rather then just randonly stroking a strangers dog


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MGarland said:


> I also plan to have the most well behaved and gentle dog ever known to man using a loving but strict training program. People shall eat their words!
> Matt


I wish you luck, not all dogs are going to work to your plan, they have ideas of their own and it does not mean they will be the same as yours, each dog is going to be different, what ever breed you have.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

I havent read the thread all the way through but as the owner of Staffords I would highly recommend you purchase any Stafford from a reputable breeder. Visit the breeder before the pups are born and after and talk at great length to the breeder about the breed of dog you are choosing. A good breeder will have you in to their home many times and talk at great length about the breed to answer all and any question you may have. 

Unfortunately for our breed there are hundred and thousands of BAD breeders out there who breed for Cash and Colour that give little to no thought about the Breed standards, temperament and who dont care where their pups go as long as they get the money in their hand.

Any dog can be trained but not all dogs will be perfect

As for Crate training, I have crate trained two of mine from pups and the longest I left them in their crate was 5 hours but when they were younger I had someone pop home and let them out until they were ready to be left for the 5 hours ( this changes per dog).

IMO you cant get a better breed than Staffords BUT this is a personal choice and like many other dog owners we all love the breed we own and will advocate it to the death BUT as much as I love my dogs and my breed I never underestimate the fact they are dogs and I always respect them and ensure other dog owners and dogs do the same around them as no matter how much training and time spent ensuring your dogs are as perfect as you want them to be  there will always be that one occasion that the training goes out the window and your dog becomes a dog !!


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## Hertsgirl (Nov 17, 2011)

I love staffies, they are brilliant dogs and great companions! Our other dog we had, Arnie, he was a staff cross and he was the worlds softest boy, he wouldn't have hurt a fly


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