# Smacking



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

You all know how I love an emotive subject, and couldn't shy away from this one.

Firstly, I have always felt that anyone who smacks their dog almost deserves to be bitten. I have never used corporal punishment on any of my dogs, nor would I. However, I was smacked as a child albeit on very rare occasions and never hard.

I grew up with utmost respect for my parents and knew that if I misbehaved at school, I could be in trouble. I remember once having a blackboard rubber thrown at me for eating sherbet dips in class!

Is it right to smack a child when you would not smack your dog and if so why?


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Oh no this is a difficult one well i would say that you could say to a child that if you continue to, do whatever i dont know, run ino the road, touch something dangerous etc,"you will get a smack", then the child can make up its mind whether to do it and know that they will be smacked. Adog cannot understand this reasoning so a smack would come out of the blue to a dog, very scarey . . . . dont know whether this is right but the only answer/reason i can give


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

haeveymolly said:


> Oh no this is a difficult one well i would say that you could say to a child that if you continue to, do whatever i dont know, run ino the road, touch something dangerous etc,"you will get a smack", then the child can make up its mind whether to do it and know that they will be smacked. Adog cannot understand this reasoning so a smack would come out of the blue to a dog, very scarey . . . . dont know whether this is right but the only answer/reason i can give


Its a dilemma, I agree.

However, a dog is not a person and does not reason and think as we do. I'm kind of standing on the fence with this one, since I do not know how you can explain to a small child that sticking their fingers in a plug will hurt, however, a tap on the bum is a warning that could prevent serious consequences.

If I could have got away with standing on a naughty step, to my mind, that would have been taking the easy way out.

As I said previously, I was smacked but only on a very few occasions when nothing else worked. I adored my parents and totally respected them and my elders growing up. Perhaps that is not standing on the fence after all


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I have 2 boys 18 and 21, they was smacked as children, only when i thought they really needed it, (well still are when i can get the chair quick enough to stand on) and they have never come to any harm they were not allowed to do as they liked when young and yes they got a smack on the leg i do not believe in hitting kids around the head but top of leg does no physical harm. They have never been a problem growing up never got into trouble, never did wrong hanging around streets causing trouble, they were brought up with boundaries, knowing right from wrong.

Think this might cause a debate about whether children should be smacked or not.


----------



## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I believe that its not okay to smack an animal, as in all respect they are not fully domesticated and can show aggressive tendencies that could result in serious harm to them and the person who smacked the animal. An animal doesn't not fully understand why it is being smacked and therfore would not benefit from it, and it is more likely to lash out at you!

Children on the other hand! I think it is okay to give them a little slap on the wrist or the back of the legs. We speak the same language and a child would learn more easily as to why they have been smacked. I don't agree with full blown hitting, punch and smacking where it would leave emotional and physical scars, but a little tap on the wrist is fine. When I was growing up, I was smacked a couple of times, not very often - usually with a slipper, and I have grown up fine!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

I absolutely disagree with any form of violence towards children or animals.

For me, if you smack a dog then you deserve whatever may be coming to you in response from them.

As for smacking children, well, I cannot understand how anyone can think that an adult using violence against a child is acceptable. All it does is send out a message that violence is an acceptable behaviour - well, if mum/dad does it then it must be ok, right? 

If I ever saw anyone smacking a child or an animal I would report it, seriously. I wouldn't think twice about it.


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

There is a difference between a smack and outright beating.

I agree with smacking in the sense that it's not used as the be all and end all of instilling discipline in children. I would rather parents did not hit their children AT ALL but I know there are some right little terrors out there.

Everyone knows I was beaten as a child so I don't think I have to go into it. Anyone who does this is a pathetic low life and doesn't deserve to be blessed with children.

I don't think it's okay to hit anything or anyone who can't defend themselves. Human or animal.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I think a slap on the leg termed violence is very harsh, my children have never grown up to think any sort of violence is good because i gave them a slap on the leg when they were young, went hrough primary school, comprehensive school never a report for fighting they are both in the work place doing fine, so doesnt account for children being violent or out of control like many are oday lots of those kids come homes with no boundaries parents dont even know what they are doing so cant reprimand, or they have come from a home that have just hit out first without speaking to them when young, or giving a reason why the have got a smack i do think there is a big difference.


----------



## Classyellie (Apr 16, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I don't think it's okay to hit anything or anyone who can't defend themselves. Human or animal.


True. I have never hit either of my dogs and I never will. They wouldn't understand a smack.

I can count on one hand the number of times either of my children got a smack - actually a tap on the back of the hand - they are 21 and 16 now and are happy, adjusted kids who have never caused a moments trouble. They respect both me and their Dad and are a joy to us both.

There are other ways to discipline both dogs and children without resorting to violence in any form.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i dislike smacking of animal or people kind But i have smacked my children this is because I have lost control, I lost my temper, None of it is there fault and i know disaplining them in a different way works better. But at that time I lost control and ive felt so guilty after My children still love me they know im not going to beat them and that mummy doesnt like smacking them 

I dont hit the dogs, they sometimes get a little tap on the nose but very rarely they dont understand why they are getting it so its pointless really


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

Oh dear... I think I may get mauled for this but, here goes...

I disagree totally with smacking as a 'punishment' some parents who just smack their children routinely are wrong wrong wrong!! I once saw a documentary about parents to hit their children, using a stick, or switch, or a paddle with the words 'never in anger' on. Which I disagree with. Cold hearted, calculated hitting is horrible, and basically, terrifying. But a parent who smacks their child in anger, or to put it better, _worry_ is, I think, understandable. 
And in a way... oh how to put this? I definitely don't _agree_ with smacking dogs but I have smacked mine occasionally... though never never never to hurt them ever. If my JRT is doing something naughty (and I don't mean just cheeky but something that could be dangerous) then I may give her a tap on the rump as a pyshical reminder that it's not allowed. And, to be enitrely honest, I push her around much harder in play and she loves that. I have only ever once hit her to hurt and that was when she ran out of the front door and straight into the oncoming path of a car. I got her back and (almost in tears) smacked her. She never did it again, and I have never smacked to hurt again. My voice is more than enough though a little tap on the behind I don't think is a bad thing. Though I disagree with slapping your dog on the nose, which is bony and sensitive and must be very painful =(

So yes, I can understand a parent smacking a child on the leg in worry and I sometimes tap (literally) my dog on the rump to distract and / or remind her that she's breaking the rules. And she's fine, would never bite or anything because I never hurt her and she never feels threatened by me


----------



## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't like smacking dogs. End of. 

I also don't like smacking children yet in certain circumstances i would alter my beliefs, and give them a smack, not a hard one. But some children play up so bad that you can't control them with words or bribery. You know when you ask a kid to stop doing something and they go into hyper mode and play you up even more and are making a scene, or have done something very naughty. Then i think a smack wouldn't be a bad thing. 
I have been smacked before. Made me think twice about doing it again   However i have never felt my parents were violent towards me etc. It was a punishment nothing more nothing less. I still love 'em  
Children understand words and therefore understand the warnings that come before a smack. If the choose to ignore it then that is their fault. 
I however understand how some would never smack their children or any other human being


----------



## MySugar (May 24, 2009)

I disagree with smacking dogs 100% and I told my friend off for doing so once. They cannot understand why it has been done them, why the person they love and trust would physically hurt them with no warning...not good.

Children however...when I was a child my Dad would smack my hands starting gently then gettting harder and more of them. Then he would turn us around (my older sis, youngest never experienced this) so we were facing him, bend us over, trap us between his legs, pull down our trousers/skirt and knickers and smack our bums really hard untill they were red and we were crying  I was once physically sick before he could smack my bum and it stopped him cos he felt guilty 
With my son, I have smacked him, but very rarely and NOT like my Dad did to me (which has not affected me btw). He will first be told off, all other punishments will be put in place, then he will get a warning, then comes the smack if he STILL is being naugty. At the moment he is being VERY naughty. I am at my wits end and he has had a couple of smacks (so light they didn't even bother him  so no point in it any more!).
I am trying desperately to find ways of punishing him to stop his awfull behavious (he is 7 btw).
Now, I totally disagree with children being hit with any object, slipper, wooden spoon, whatever. But a light smack on hand, bottom, leg will not do any lasting damage. It is because people are afraid or think it is wrong to discipline in such a way that we have so many hooligans. The older generation who had the cane and were smacked are far ebtter behaved and more respectfull.


----------



## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

I disagree with violence of any kind , smacking or any other types .
I do not think smacking ,hitting ect can ever have any good positive results .
I think violence begets violence .


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

hobo99 said:


> I disagree with violence of any kind , smacking or any other types .
> I do not think smacking ,hitting ect can ever have any good positive results .
> I think violence begets violence .


I agree with you 100%


----------



## MySugar (May 24, 2009)

hobo99 said:


> I disagree with violence of any kind , smacking or any other types .
> I do not think smacking ,hitting ect can ever have any good positive results .
> I think violence begets violence .





HighlandQuine said:


> I agree with you 100%


I understand your opinions but disagree. If violence begets violence then I would be...and i'm not. I do not fight and I was smacked as a child. There is a fine line between light smacking and abuse, staying on the right side is ok. Crossing it deserves a heafty prison sentence.

EDIT: I am presuming your idea of violence is smacking as that is what this subject is about. Actuall violence I disagree with.


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

For everyone who was smacked as a child whether it was light smacking or outright abuse.

I'm not saying your parents were evil monsters for smacking you but if you (like me) are now afraid of loud noises, flinch at sudden movement and find it hard to trust either men or women then yes you have been affected by it.

I still to this day flinch at everyday sounds. My OH used to try and tickle my neck but I just flinch and stiffen up.

If my mother lifts her hand I flinch away - my mother was not the one who beat me.

I also think my weak bladder and bad nerves (I always shake) down to what happened to me as a child.

If this is what smacking has done to me imagine what it does to animals.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

MySugar said:


> I understand your opinions but disagree. If violence begets violence then I would be...and i'm not. I do not fight and I was smacked as a child. There is a fine line between light smacking and abuse, staying on the right side is ok. Crossing it deserves a heafty prison sentence.
> 
> EDIT: I am presuming your idea of violence is smacking as that is what this subject is about. Actuall violence I disagree with.


I agree, there is a difference between smacking and violence. A smack on a childs leg is different from a slap across the face. 
I think that quite a lot of dog owners probably 'tap' their dog and I think that there is a big difference between that and full on smacking which just isn't right. Your voice and actions (body language, removing the dog or yourself from the situation etc) should be enough to let the dog know what's going on.


----------



## MySugar (May 24, 2009)

sequeena said:


> For everyone who was smacked as a child whether it was light smacking or outright abuse.
> 
> I'm not saying your parents were evil monsters for smacking you but if you (like me) are now afraid of loud noises, flinch at sudden movement and find it hard to trust either men or women then yes you have been affected by it.
> 
> ...


My lack of trust for people and other issues has nothing whatsoever to do with being smacked. I have other childhood reasons for that. I am unaffected by my smacking, as brutal as some of it was.

I'm sorry you have suffered what you have though, you may have said everyone knew but I didn't.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I don't like smacking dogs. End of.
> 
> I also don't like smacking children yet in certain circumstances i would alter my beliefs, and give them a smack, not a hard one. But some children play up so bad that you can't control them with words or bribery. You know when you ask a kid to stop doing something and they go into hyper mode and play you up even more and are making a scene, or have done something very naughty. Then i think a smack wouldn't be a bad thing.
> I have been smacked before. Made me think twice about doing it again   However i have never felt my parents were violent towards me etc. It was a punishment nothing more nothing less. I still love 'em
> ...


Totally agree, we are talking a smack not a beating, i have never lost control and hit mine they have been warned and a smack on the leg isnt beating or losing control.

As we all know kids can push you to the limit and the "not smacking law" worries me in the fact that if someone the most patient of people has a breaking point and there is the danger of snapping, losing control and doing a lot of damage to a child mentally and phisically, the odd smack is very, very different, and stops the child from pushing a parent over the edge


----------



## MySugar (May 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Totally agree, we are talking a smack not a beating, i have never lost control and hit mine they have been warned and a smack on the leg isnt beating or losing control.
> 
> As we all know kids can push you to the limit and the "not smacking law" worries me in the fact that if someone the most patient of people has a breaking point and there is the danger of snapping, losing control and doing a lot of damage to a child mentally and phisically, the odd smack is very, very different, and stops the child from pushing a parent over the edge


I agree. But the law may not be so bad in some ways maybe. As it does not prevent smacking, but it must not leave a mark*

*This is what I understand it to be when it came out, whether or not it has changed I don't know.

Having said that, the law is pointless as it it does not change a damn thing aside from children not being smacked in public. Baby Peter is a brutal and sickening example of that.


----------



## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

hobo99 said:


> I disagree with violence of any kind , smacking or any other types .
> I do not think smacking ,hitting ect can ever have any good positive results .
> I think violence begets violence .





MySugar said:


> I understand your opinions but disagree. If violence begets violence then I would be...and i'm not. I do not fight and I was smacked as a child. There is a fine line between light smacking and abuse, staying on the right side is ok. Crossing it deserves a heafty prison sentence.
> 
> EDIT: I am presuming your idea of violence is smacking as that is what this subject is about. Actuall violence I disagree with.


I stand by my opinions , violence is never the answer,in any way, shape or form.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

MySugar said:


> but it must not leave a mark*
> 
> *This is what I understand it to be when it came out, whether or not it has changed I don't know.


-nods- Thats what I heard it was.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Constant smacking is wrong in my opinion, however, if used as my father did it it can be a very good deterrent to bad behaviour.
He only ever smacked me once and my twin sister twice, but the threat of a smack had more effect than constant smacking would have done.
I think if used too much, the child becomes desensitized to it


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

See i think Alot of children are out of control because smacking is there only punishment and nothing is ever followed through. 

I know a little boy who is 5 same age as my son who runs rings around his mum and dad, he tells them what to do, where to go, is aggressive and spiteful to other children and has been sent to the headteachers office 4 times in reception class. His mum smacks him but she also doesnt follow through with anything this is where i think alot of children behaviour comes from they know thier parents cant smack them and if parent dont follow through with i.e taking a nintendo ds away for 24hrs or no going to nannys they know thier parents are making empty threats and will continue to take the mick. 

He isnt effected by a smack at all, so it is pointless. My other friends little girl is very effected by smacking and will cry if she sees another child being smacked let alone herself so it depends on the child if they are effected by it.


----------



## cusochris (Jun 15, 2009)

After reading the previous posts i thought would explain my reasons for tapping and not actually smacking pets or my now grown up children (they have never been in any serious trouble and are now adults). 

In the wild a mother dog will chastise the puppy if it does wrong such as biting its ears or neck to make it yelp a little. Children in my opinion also need this similar trearment (obviously not biting but a light tap that is a little uncomfortable) up to an age that you as their parent deem neccessary.. dogs like children need boundaries and learn really quickly if a small amount of physical chastisement is used immediately after the event. The best thing to do when a dog is being willful and ignoring you is to simply remove it from the situation and encourage their interest in something else. A can of dried peas shaken can distract them immediatly and take their attention away from the bad behaviour.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

hobo99 said:


> I stand by my opinions , violence is never the answer,in any way, shape or form.


But surely this is getting confused? A smack that doesn't hurt the child, in the sense that it would sting a little but wouldn't last, reminds it to behave and can't be classed as 'violence'? That documentry I saw where any misdemeanour was punished by hitting was sickening, especially when two children, for nothing more than slacking off their chores, were taken into a room slapped with a wooden paddle. They came out in tears. It was disgusting.


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

smacking happens usually when the parent or the pet owner looses their temper and not for "prevention" or to "stop" the bad behaviour.

Then where is the line between smacking and beating? Who draws that line?
Children are all individuall and what might not harm this one might well harm the other one...is the risk worth it? ... imo no! 

I have been smacked as a child, where i class it personally as beatings now...i grew up fearing my father (others would call that respect ... sadly).... 

I dont judge someone having slapped their child or dog as we are all human facing sometimes hard situations and loosing temper is just normal, but i definitly would judge someone who uses "slapping" as a disciplin measure on regular basis....


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

cusochris said:


> After reading the previous posts i thought would explain my reasons for tapping and not actually smacking pets or my now grown up children (they have never been in any serious trouble and are now adults).
> 
> In the wild a mother dog will chastise the puppy if it does wrong such as biting its ears or neck to make it yelp a little. Children in my opinion also need this similar trearment (obviously not biting but a light tap that is a little uncomfortable) up to an age that you as their parent deem neccessary.. dogs like children need boundaries and learn really quickly if a small amount of physical chastisement is used immediately after the event. The best thing to do when a dog is being willful and ignoring you is to simply remove it from the situation and encourage their interest in something else. A can of dried peas shaken can distract them immediatly and take their attention away from the bad behaviour.


I agree with you totally. Smacking is wrong, tapping a pet or child is merely a physical reminder, it doesn't hurt, it just gets their attention. Anyone who's read marley and me might remember when the narrator (John?) says that he would give marley a tap to lightly reprimand him. It doesn't scare the dog, or child, or make them fear you, it just helps in certain situations...
What do other people think?


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

Natik said:


> but i definitly would judge someone who uses "slapping" as a disciplin measure on regular basis....


Agree with you there. it should never be used as regular discipline.


----------



## Molly's Mum (May 22, 2009)

There is no way on earth would I ever strike, tap, hit, slap... however you want to phrase it... my dogs. IMO this would be me losing my temper/control.... what happens when a dog does the same????


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

To me a smack is an act of violence. If someone rasises their hand to another person (or animal) then that is an act of violence.

What I find particularly abhorent is that an adult does it to a child and that's okay. If adult was to smack another adult for whatever reason that wouldn't be okay. That would be assault. So how can we think it's okay for an adult to hit a child? 

I think it says a lot if an adult has to resort to violence to control a child. I've worked in children's homes in the past and staff aren't allowed to hit children, and I'm talking aout children with quite severe behaviour problems not your usual run of the mill naughty child, can you imagine the uproar there would be if it was okay for the staff (adults) to hit these children? Instead, you have to find other ways of dealing with it.

As an adult I would be absolutely ashamed of myself if I ever lifted my hand to another person far less a child.


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Firstly, I think that we should we draw a line between beating and a light smack. 

Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence and should the law be changed to make smacking a criminal offence?

It really is a very difficult question to ask since there could be many implications to such a law.

Sequeena, I had no idea that you had suffered this as a child and cannot imagine how this has affected you in your adult life.

As I said earlier, I was only every slapped on very rare occasions as a child, and only after every other punishment failed. I remember once being sent to my room and climbing out of the window to visit the fair! I admit to being a real handful back then!

I think that the worse punishment I suffered was being made to sit in a waste paper basket with a dunces hat on my head. That was in my art class and I was the laughing stock of the school. Rightly or wrongly I never misbehaved in Mr Duffield's class again 

I do feel however, that if the government should amend the law to outlaw smacking we could see unfounded accusations of child abuse.

Just my opinion though.


----------



## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

Molly's Mum said:


> There is no way on earth would I ever strike, tap, hit, slap... however you want to phrase it... my dogs. IMO this would be me losing my temper/control.... what happens when a dog does the same????


Exactly, as i said violence begets violence .


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

> Sequeena, I had no idea that you had suffered this as a child and cannot imagine how this has affected you in your adult life.


Thanks. It doesn't affect me in day to day life and I don't think about WHY I flinch etc but I know that it's down to what happened. Oh well, I'll just learn to get on with it  and remember to wear tena lady :laugh:


----------



## Inca's Mum (Apr 9, 2009)

I would never raise a hand to smack a person or animal. 

I have never been smacked/hit by my mum or grandparents (basically who I was raised with). The way they punish me was just to send me to my room until they wanted me to come down and really, since I'm well over-sensitive, once did it. I never misbehave and hate to be in trouble or have somebody angry with me.

I cannot imagine what a person would be thinking when they hit their animals. I find it shocking and definitely seems as an act of violence. It's just wrong.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

Nina said:


> Firstly, I think that we should we draw a line between beating and a light smack.
> 
> Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence and should the law be changed to make smacking a criminal offence?
> 
> ...


Well said! This thread is called smacking but everyone keeps going on about violence! There are so many other things you can do before resorting to smacking. My mum's personal favourite was the same as you do with a dog. I misbehaved she completely ignored me. No love, no food, no drink when I asked for it. Nothing. And it b***** worked as well! That taught me to respect mum not by fear or anything but because mum was my mum and I wanted her love! It's the exact same thing I would use should I ever have kids. I did get a couple of smacks when I was younger when I was completely out of order and fair enough. No lasting damage and I would smack my child should they be totally out of order but lightly. I've seen parents just lose their tempers and smack their children, for no good reason, and hard. It makes my heart bleed =(


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sequeena said:


> Thanks. It doesn't affect me in day to day life and I don't think about WHY I flinch etc but I know that it's down to what happened. Oh well, I'll just learn to get on with it  and remember to wear tena lady :laugh:


Thank God it hasn't affected your sense of humour :001_tt2:

I remember my dad once jumping over 5 fences in Manchester to rescue a young child that had been held over a fire in the garden. Can you believe that :cursing:

Apparently my dad belted seven buckets out of this guy and the police were called. I think this is nothing short of child abuse and the perpitrator should have at least had a prison sentance.

I also believe that the way we treat animals as individuals and as a society is often very closely related to how we treat each other and I once read that the perpetrators of violence usually don't stop to count the number of legs on their victims!


----------



## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Dogs do not use smacks as discipline so why on earth would anyone think that they understood one? A growl is likely to have more effect than a wallop any day! Smacking is a human reaction and can go badly wrong resulting in bruising and even broken bones. No caring owner would inflict that on a dog.


----------



## Molly's Mum (May 22, 2009)

Cloth101 said:


> Well said! This thread is called smacking but everyone keeps going on about violence! There are so many other things you can do before resorting to smacking. My mum's personal favourite was the same as you do with a dog. I misbehaved she completely ignored me. No love, no food, no drink when I asked for it. Nothing. And it b***** worked as well! That taught me to respect mum not by fear or anything but because mum was my mum and I wanted her love! It's the exact same thing I would use should I ever have kids. I did get a couple of smacks when I was younger when I was completely out of order and fair enough. No lasting damage and I would smack my child should they be totally out of order but lightly. I've seen parents just lose their tempers and smack their children, for no good reason, and hard. It makes my heart bleed =(


I think we could be on a very slippery slope with where this thread is going.... I am not going to comment futher as I think we could get into an argument very easily


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

CarolineH said:


> Smacking is a human reaction and can go badly wrong resulting in bruising and even broken bones. No caring owner would inflict that on a dog.


Aw hmy: imagine a dog with broken bones because of it's owner ='(


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Nina said:


> Thank God it hasn't affected your sense of humour :001_tt2:
> 
> I remember my dad once jumping over 5 fences in Manchester to rescue a young child that had been held over a fire in the garden. Can you believe that :cursing:
> 
> ...


Nothing could get rid of my humourm sadly :laugh:

Some people are despicable  And you're right, people who do this sort of thing really don't stop to think about what they're doing or who they're hitting.

I like to make a point that this thread is about smacking - smacking is violence! If I hit someone I would be done for assault. Why it's different for parents to hit their children I don't know! I don't like it but it goes on. There are other ways to discipline a child and I will not resort to smacking my own (when that finally happens).

I've seen parents who tap their child on the hand. The child listens for what, ten minutes? Then they're back to their old tricks. What happens? The smacking gets more frequent and much harder


----------



## MySugar (May 24, 2009)

I agree smacking on a regular basis is bad and would never partake in that. It is incredibly rare my son would get one as I follow through with punishments, be it no tv, no DS, no sweets, not allowed out or whatever. I have even given his toys away. But when you have worn out all other punishments and the child is still being naughty, then it is needed if it works. I refuse to allow my son to become disrespectfull, nasty, inconsiderate of others, a liar and generally naughty. If I and thousands of others did allow this behaviour, many of you who are against it i'm sure would complain if our children were bullying yours, burgling your home, steeling your car or whatever. Because children who are not raised with discipline and taught how to behave and respect others will most likely end up this way.
As for children with severe behavioural disorders...well, they are molly coddled and should not be given excuses for severly bad behaviour. Some children genuinely have autism or dispraxia or whatever, others are given it as an excuse for rotten behaviour. 
There is a child in my sons year at school who is an infamous bully. Does he get punished to stop him? No. He gets practically sung to to stop his bad behaviour. He needs to learn how his behaviour affects others, but this ridiculous molly coddling way of dealing with bullies is outragous. It protects the bully, not the sufferers. Just like child abuse , rape, murder cases where the attacker gets anonomity and prison protection. That may seem extreme for this subject but there are similarities.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

My parents smacked me as a child...not a lot but if I had been very very naughty.....it was only a smack on the hand or bum - most of the time my dad was the disciplinarian as in telling me off etc....my mum only had to say the words wait till your dad gets home and I would instantly stop and think "uh oh"!! I think discipline comes down to lots of different forms and just constant smacking is not going to work it is all to do wiht communication and being able to talk to your children tbo the odd tap never did me any harm I absolutley adored my dad and was very close to him ....still am - My OH was beat badly as a child - and I see the effects that had on him everyday in our life - with his children he is very strict but only has to raise his voice and give warnings and the boyz no instantly how far to go....although on some very serious occasions he has tapped them - I dont really know what the answer is - I think something has gone drastically wrong with some of todays children...they have no respect for anything or anybody and are not instilled morals etc....which can only come down to the parenting skills,I personally think having a "little bit" of fear regarding the consequences of your actions is not a bad thing it makes you stop and question what u are doing which a lot of young kids dont do.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

I suppose what I meant was, that is this thread about what happens when smacking becomes abuse? Or about when people would use a smack on a child? 

And Molly's Mum, I'm really sorry if I've said something offensive =s I think this is the kind of thread that will get out of control, people will say things that come out wrong and things they don't mean in the way it may be taken the wrong way. 
I'll just say (in case you think I'm some evil child-dog beater ) that I disagree with hard smacking of any living thing, especially as a frequent punishment though, and someone said this before, I can understand a light smack. If you hit your child until it is scarred either mentally or physically to any degree then you should go to prison. If you hit a dog until it bites you, you deserve it.


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sequeena said:


> Nothing could get rid of my humourm sadly :laugh:
> 
> Some people are despicable  And you're right, people who do this sort of thing really don't stop to think about what they're doing or who they're hitting.
> 
> ...


I think that each of us has experienced some form of punishment in our childhood and some worse than others.

All I can say, is that I can count on one hand the number of times that my mum slapped me, and only when it was her last result.

As I said previously, I was sent to my room, but climbed out of the window, missed supper (no affect at all), pocket money withdrawn but again for me, this was an easy punishment.

However, on the few occasions that I received a slap, I knew not to repeat my offense and one of them was stealing from the corner shop which could have had serious consequences!

I had the utmost respect for my mum and believe that I grew into a conscientious and caring person, with the utmost respect for those around me. This does not however, mean that I wholely support smacking.


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

Well said Nina. It all depends on the child and the situation. I don't think anyone can just say 'No' to smacking when in some cases it works to show how badly the child has misbehaved and may actually help in the long run.


----------



## Molly's Mum (May 22, 2009)

Cloth101 said:


> I suppose what I meant was, that is this thread about what happens when smacking becomes abuse? Or about when people would use a smack on a child?
> 
> And Molly's Mum, I'm really sorry if I've said something offensive =s I think this is the kind of thread that will get out of control, people will say things that come out wrong and things they don't mean in the way it may be taken the wrong way.
> I'll just say (in case you think I'm some evil child-dog beater ) that I disagree with hard smacking of any living thing, especially as a frequent punishment though, and someone said this before, I can understand a light smack. If you hit your child until it is scarred either mentally or physically to any degree then you should go to prison. If you hit a dog until it bites you, you deserve it.


Not offended at all  Just didn't want a big heated debate, the topic is very emotive and I would love a nice peaceful happy day


----------



## Cloth101 (Aug 5, 2009)

Oh good -grabs heart- the last thing I want is peeps thinking I'm some child / dog hater lol =D


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Cloth101 said:


> Well said Nina. It all depends on the child and the situation. I don't think anyone can just say 'No' to smacking when in some cases it works to show how badly the child has misbehaved and may actually help in the long run.


Well I'm going to be the odd one out and shout no at the top of my voice  

I don't agree with it whatsoever. There are other ways to discipline a child it's just finding what works. Every kid will misbehave at some point, we all go through that stage where we rebel but with most kids (I'm talking about the ASBO lot) were not brought up to respect anyone or anything - smacking won't work with them because they'll smack you back.

Respect etc should be taught from an early age - which I think everyone agrees with :yesnod:


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Well I'm going to be the odd one out and shout no at the top of my voice
> 
> I don't agree with it whatsoever. There are other ways to discipline a child it's just finding what works. Every kid will misbehave at some point, we all go through that stage where we rebel but with most kids (I'm talking about the ASBO lot) were not brought up to respect anyone or anything - smacking won't work with them because they'll smack you back.
> 
> Respect etc should be taught from an early age - which I think everyone agrees with :yesnod:


Im shouting NO too


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Natik said:


> Im shouting NO too


Woohoo! We really should find a roof to do all this shouting from


----------



## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

Nina said:


> You all know how I love an emotive subject, and couldn't shy away from this one.
> 
> Firstly, I have always felt that anyone who smacks their dog almost deserves to be bitten. I have never used corporal punishment on any of my dogs, nor would I. However, I was smacked as a child albeit on very rare occasions and never hard.
> 
> ...


I wouldnt do either, cassie was beaten in her last home and you can tell, if you call her a certain way she crawls on her belly  after 2 years of being with us and never having been smacked whatsoever (though i do shout and tell her no, bad dog, get in your bed etc)
I think smacking an animal is, well, unfair because the animal cant speakout, though i wouldnt smack a child, each to his own and i dont see a problem with it occasionaly.

This is only my opinion by the way.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Natik said:


> Im shouting NO too


So am I!!!


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I was threatened with a 'sare erse' many times when I was a child and I have to say the threat of it (mostly) was enough of a deterrent. I was not beaten as a child but I did get a smacked bum on a few occasions and it certainly stopped me doing whatever it was I was doing. I have grown up a well balanced individual who does not condone violence of any description, especially after seeing my mum being beaten by her x husband. However, I firmly believe that there are many children out there who would benefit from the occasional smack. Not being beaten or bruised but a smack on the bum is in my opinion a far better lesson for a child than to allow a child to create havock and misbehave to the extent some do in public. When I see children running amock and making their parents look like they couldn't care less all I can see is that child growing into an adult that does not know how to behave in public.

Again, I do not condone 'violence' I am in full support of the occasional 'sare erse' it did me nor my siblings no harm at all and we all know how to behave in any given situation.

I do however respect the views of everyone and if someone does not agree with smacking but they still have well behaved children then thats great, they are better parents than most.


----------



## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm going to be one of the NO people. I honestly despise people that smack children or animals. All it did for me was make me loathe my parents didn't instill fear which is wrong anyway or stop me doing anything. Admittedly it wasn't the only thing but a major factor in why I have spoken to them once in the last five years and never will again. If I was to hit an adult it would be termed assault and I can't understand how the same rules are not applied to something as weak and defenceless as a small child.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Nicky09 said:


> If I was to hit an adult it would be termed assault and I can't understand how the same rules are not applied to something as weak and defenceless as a small child.


That's exactly what I said. It makes no sense to me. If it's wrong to hit an adult who's an equal then it's even worse to hit a child.

Hitting of any kind towards another person, or animal, is assault. How can it be anything else?


----------



## hayleyb (Feb 10, 2009)

in my opinion i think some children need a goo tellin. and sometimes a smack on the hand is enuff for them to think hmy: i must have done somethin very bad. i was rarely smacked as a child altho i was still well behaved as i knew it was a possibility.

dunno wat anyone else thinks but i think that we dnt smack dogs coz they cant talk. so if your dog is bein naughty it doesnt really understand that so smackin it wud jst be like an oak tree growing in the dessert, very random. (in understand that was not a good example but i understand wat i mean)

we all no children do things they arent supposed to, and you can see in their face they understand


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

As I stated earlier, its a very emotive subject. 

I lived in a bubble of protectiveness when I was a child and have nothing but wonderful memories of my parents despite the occasional smack.

I have often seen young children screaming in supermarkets reaching such a state they could hardly catch their breath, all because they were denied an item they wanted! 

Personally, I am extremely glad that I chose not to have children, since I doubt I could have coped.


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

I am going to say yes, although i hate seeing those parents in the shops or town who hoist there screaming child up by one arm and smack the living daylights out of it,

I honestly believe in a controlled smack , void of temper for your own relief, tells the child they have gone to far, My 2 get the three counts and your out, and i esculate the situation with my voice so they know.

I very rarly if ever smack my chldren, but they have had a controled smack on their bum in the past.

I think people that smack their dogs are silly, I believe and i could be wrong that a mother dog controls the pups with growls and yelps, perhaps a accassional nip, I am sure she doesn't bite them every opertunity she gets.

but thats my spin on things


----------



## barneythore (Jul 11, 2009)

i have 3 children 24,22,and18 they all had slapped legs when younger and they have grown up fine never brought trouble to my door or hung round streets thats the trouble with some of the young 1s these days you not allowed to smack,shout say naughty how they spose to have respect for people if they can do what ever they want to do


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I absolutely disagree with any form of violence towards children or animals.
> 
> For me, if you smack a dog then you deserve whatever may be coming to you in response from them.
> As for smacking children, well, I cannot understand how anyone can think that an adult using violence against a child is acceptable. All it does is send out a message that violence is an acceptable behaviour - well, if mum/dad does it then it must be ok, right?
> ...


Sorry but I would never agree with this one! And I think half the problems that are caused these days is because children have no respect for anyone!!! Not saying that you should beat a child black and blue! but a short sharp shock never hurt anyone! at least not in my generation! My children are in there thirties! both received slaps as and when I felt nessesarily! And I can assure you they are extremely well balanced and children to be proud of! My daughter does NOT - due to the laws today - touch her children - and having had my young grandson for the last three weeks I can tell you he is in need of a slap imo!!!! He is much more difficult then my children ever were! I for one aint gonna try and reason with a child as my daughter suggests I should!

And seeing how children behave with the police and school teachers these days its pretty obvious to me that they have no respect for anyone!!!

Bring back corperal punishment is schools thats what I say! it never did me any harm!
DT


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

My dad was a smacker. If we ever got in trouble and saw my dad coming we would always bolt for the nearest door to either get outside and run down the street and wait for my mom to come home or we would hide in the house.

I feel that i cant talk to my dad about anything. He didnt even now i was moving. He found out from a friend mentioning it. When my dad comes and visites now and hes in a bad mood. I will either leave the house until he leaves or my mom is home. Or i will stay in my room.

The same goes for my brother.

I have never and would never hit a child or an animal.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sorry but I would never agree with this one! And I think half the problems that are caused these days is because children have no respect for anyone!!! Not saying that you should be a child black and blue! but a short shart shock never hurt anyone! at least not in my generation! My children are in there thirties! both recieved slaps as and when I felt nessesarily! And I can assure you they are extremely well balanced and children to be proud of! My daughter does NOT - due to the laws today - touch her children - and having had my young grandson for the last three weeks I can tell you he is in need of a slap imo!!!! He is much more difficult then my children ever were! I for one aint gonna try and reason with a child as my daughter sujests I should!
> 
> And seeing how children behave with the police and school teachers these days its pretty obvious to me that they have not respect for anyone!!!
> 
> ...


Oh DT, we're definetley going to have to agree to disagree on this one! 

I agree that there's a serious lack of respect in today's society but I tend to think it goes both ways. I said this recently in another thread, respect is a two-way process that has to be earned, it doesn't just happen automatically and I really don't see how smacking a child would make it respect you.

I'm in my 40s (only early though! :wink5: ) and I got a slap when needed as a child, it certainly didn't make me respect my parents anymore. I thought it unnecessary, stupid, and it hurt. That's what I remember, not that I was hit hard or often - I don't want to make out like I was because I really wasn't - but what I remember is that it hurt, not what I got a smack for only that my mum or dad had hurt me. If I had kids I don't think that's what I would want them to remember about me.

And I couldn't disagree more about corporal punishment!!! It's horrendous to think of a parent hitting their own flesh and blood but to give permission for another person to do it is definitely way off limits in my opinion. That's assault, it's all assault as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sorry but I would never agree with this one! And I think half the problems that are caused these days is because children have no respect for anyone!!! Not saying that you should be a child black and blue! but a short shart shock never hurt anyone! at least not in my generation! My children are in there thirties! both recieved slaps as and when I felt nessesarily! And I can assure you they are extremely well balanced and children to be proud of! My daughter does NOT - due to the laws today - touch her children - and having had my young grandson for the last three weeks I can tell you he is in need of a slap imo!!!! He is much more difficult then my children ever were! I for one aint gonna try and reason with a child as my daughter sujests I should!
> 
> And seeing how children behave with the police and school teachers these days its pretty obvious to me that they have not respect for anyone!!!
> 
> ...


HERE, HERE!!!!! We are proberbly closer in generation than some, with different opinions, but if they look at the kids today and if possible could see kids as they were years ago, no comparison what went wrong? kids were given too many rights, all the do gooders, bleeding hearts came out in force and spoilt our children of today.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> HERE, HERE!!!!! We are proberbly closer in generation than some, with different opinions, but if they look at the kids today and if possible could see kids as they were years ago, no comparison what went wrong? kids were given too many rights, all the do gooders, bleeding hearts came out in force and spoilt our children of today.


Seems we are united in our opinions on this one! haeveymolly! 
When I was a child I never had a smack off my parents as it happens! BUT!!! I was terrified of them finding out if I had been up to mischief (harmless) The village bobby knew us all and our parents! If we gave him any cheek (which we never did) WE would have feared our parents finding out!!! The police today have NO controll over the youngsters today!
And yep! I could be a terror a school, I have had the strap the ruler, the blackboard rubber chucked at me and it NEVER did me any harm!! I have never ever been in any kind of trouble ofter then a speeding fine!! AND it certainly ain't traumatised me!
Society has gone sof imo!!!
AND - in our day we never heard of children killing other children! and they certainly wern't running around with guns and knifes! so imo the no violence towards children is severely flawed!
DT


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

children have to learn respect...there is a massive difference between respect and avoiding being slapped again... 

Children these days behave in such rude ways because they simply have too much free time ... bored children = trouble.

Parents fail often too...i have seen parents which could do with some parenting classes and some which have to learn themselves from right and wrong. 
Children also copy bad language and bad behaviour.... maybe looking into where they get it from would be more efficient than slapping them ...


----------



## mickyb (Oct 31, 2008)

A good smack across the legs, would do the world of good, it is not violence, to teach a child right from wrong, it could even save their life, if they listen to what you say, if it's about to run in the road etc, never did us any harm, and because, of the do gooders, is why England has to be the laughing stock of the world, I hear young mum's in the shops saying, if you are good I will buy you some sweets (idiots or what) ut:


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I have to agree with DT that people who run round with guns and knives should be beaten to a pulp 

Sorry, it's a subject close to my heart :blushing:


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Natik said:


> Children also copy bad language and bad behaviour.... maybe looking into where they get it from would be more efficient than slapping them ...


The fear of having one's mouth washed out with soap and water is a great deterent!
DT


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> HERE, HERE!!!!! We are proberbly closer in generation than some, with different opinions, but if they look at the kids today and if possible could see kids as they were years ago, no comparison what went wrong? kids were given too many rights, all the do gooders, bleeding hearts came out in force and spoilt our children of today.


*i think we went wrong, we thought we would give things to our kids and grandchildren the things we "thought" we missed out on.
And yes i did smack my kids and if i felt the need i'd smack my dogs.And i might point out this does NOT mean i've lost my temper or control.thats only mordern day thinking.*


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> That's exactly what I said. It makes no sense to me. If it's wrong to hit an adult who's an equal then it's even worse to hit a child.
> 
> Hitting of any kind towards another person, or animal, is assault. How can it be anything else?


i think assult is going to far My son hits my daughter, and my daughter hits him back they are assulting each other they are just hitting I wouldnt go to the police and say they are assulting each other please arrest them.

They hit each other because they have lost control, they arent able to process thier frustration in to words so instead it comes out in a physical form niether are really hurt from it and certianly not mentally they adore each other.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *i think we went wrong, we thought we would give things to our kids and grandchildren the things we "thought" we missed out on.
> And yes i did smack my kids and if i felt the need i'd smack my dogs.And i might point out this does NOT mean i've lost my temper or control.thats only mordern day thinking.*


losing control, abuse,violence, beating as its been interpreted never came into it, it was a slap on the leg or bottom and thats all it was.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Daynna said:


> i think assult is going to far My son hits my daughter, and my daughter hits him back they are assulting each other they are just hitting I wouldnt go to the police and say they are assulting each other please arrest them.
> 
> They hit each other because they have lost control, they arent able to process thier frustration in to words so instead it comes out in a physical form niether are really hurt from it and certianly not mentally they adore each other.


I think it is assault when an adult hits a child. What you're describing is two children hitting each other, that's not the same as an adult hitting a child.

So if an adult hits a child does that mean the adult has _lost control, they arent able to process thier frustration in to words so instead it comes out in a physical form_?

Doesn't say much about adults really, does it?


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

Me being a child now.... I think that smacking a child is out of order! It might teach them, but at the end of the day, it would be much better and stress free if you just talked it over with them. When i have my kids, theres no way i would ever hit them, Under *ANY* circumstances....


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

if i done wrong when i was a kid i got a belt round the ear.if we did wrong at school we got the cane we had respect for older people and police most kids these days have respect for nothing


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

there are other ways to instill discipline in children - be a good role model yourself - kids copy. keep kids occupied - spend time with them - a busy kid generally is a well behaved kid.


smacking is not necessary.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sahunk said:


> Me being a child now.... I think that smacking a child is out of order! It might teach them, but at the end of the day, it would be much better and stress free if you just talked it over with them. When i have my kids, theres no way i would ever hit them, Under *ANY* circumstances....


Come back in a few more years and tell us that


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> there are other ways to instill discipline in children - be a good role model yourself - kids copy. keep kids occupied - spend time with them - a busy kid generally is a well behaved kid.
> 
> smacking is not necessary.


the smackheads are allways busy robbing old people they are not well behaved but the birch would cure them
i


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> there are other ways to instill discipline in children - be a good role model yourself - kids copy. keep kids occupied - spend time with them - a busy kid generally is a well behaved kid.
> 
> smacking is not necessary.


:thumbup:



borderer said:


> the smackheads are allways busy robbing old people they are not well behaved but the birch would cure them
> i


It's all to do with how they were brought up Bordie - half of those smackheads were probably hit as children! I personally think those who carry knives should be strung up but what can I do eh??


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

borderer said:


> the smackheads are allways busy robbing old people they are not well behaved but the birch would cure them
> i


what has that got to do with smacking kids?


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> what has that got to do with smacking kids?


most of the smackheads are kids


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

borderer said:


> most of the smackheads are kids


so when the kids are out robbing where are their parents???? Probably busy watching telly


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

borderer said:


> most of the smackheads are kids


at what age are we talking

rearing of kids starts from a very early age - the more you put in between 0 and 4 -the more you get out later on.

If kids turn out to be smack heads I can bet your bottom dollar it aint because their parents NEVER smacked em more like

1. parents did smack them
2. parents neglected them
3, parents smack heads them selves


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

borderer said:


> most of the smackheads are kids


When you say "Most" Thats a load of crapp....


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I think it is assault when an adult hits a child. What you're describing is two children hitting each other, that's not the same as an adult hitting a child.
> 
> So if an adult hits a child does that mean the adult has _lost control, they arent able to process thier frustration in to words so instead it comes out in a physical form_?
> 
> Doesn't say much about adults really, does it?


As you said earlier this is one area that we shall never agree so please do not think I am aiming this at you personally! I'm not!

When I was a child if a lad were up to no good the local copper would take him by his ear and read him the right act! There was no need for paperwork, and wasting police time!

If there were a gang of youths on the street corner that same copper would stabalize any high spirits that were likely to get out of hand! JUST by his presence!!!

Can the same thing be said now?

Teachers get beaten up in school these days by unruly pupils!! NEVER happened in my day!

Spare the rod - spoil the child! (And no! I don't think you should thrash then with a stick!)

DT


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Adog cannot understand this reasoning so a smack would come out of the blue to a dog, very scarey . . . . dont know whether this is right but the only answer/reason i can give


The point of a smack is not to go straight to that punishment, the dog should be warned, possibly multiple times and if it persists in breaking the rules, especially if it knows better, than a smack on the hind legs can indicate it has gone too far.

Kicking and punching is not acceptable but a slap across the hind legs in conjunction with a consistent warning process can aid training and asserts dominance. If you get bitten, by your dog, after such a process it is an indication that the dog's training, and your use of the punishment is rather lacking.

I have trained many dogs using a slap on the hind legs and never been bitten. Frankly, after doing it once or twice as a puppy, if the clear warning steps are given in advance you never need to reach to final stage again, the threat, as with a child is all that is needed.

Lets not forget that in the wild animals exert dominance through force, the advantage we have is that we can control our aggression, so as not to cause harm.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sahunk said:


> When you say "Most" Thats a load of crapp....


go back in ya bubble grasshopper


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

If you think that when you hit a child you will earn there "Respect" then thats untrue.... When a kid gets beat a few times, they realise that if they dont do they right things they will get beat, so they will be so scared of you, they will not enjoy life! Put yourself in your childs position! Also if you got beat as a child (as some of you have) you think that it is fine to bet your child, But remember how it felt for you!!! :cursing:


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

borderer said:


> go back in ya bubble grasshopper


Lol, that made me giggle! :blushing:


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> As you said earlier this is one area that we shall never agree so please do not think I am aiming this at you personally! I'm not!
> 
> When I was a child if a lad were up to no good the local copper would take him by his ear and read him the right act! There was no need for paperwork, and wasting police time!
> 
> ...


There's too much PC these days DT. :yesnod:


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> The point of a smack is not to go straight to that punishment, the dog should be warned, possibly multiple times and if it persists in breaking the rules, especially if it knows better, than a smack on the hind legs can indicate it has gone too far.
> 
> Kicking and punching is not acceptable but a slap across the hind legs in conjunction with a consistent warning process can aid training and asserts dominance. If you get bitten, by your dog, after such a process it is an indication that the dog's training, and your use of the punishment is rather lacking.
> 
> ...


are you on drugs? surely you cannot be serious?


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Natik said:


> so when the kids are out robbing where are their parents???? Probably busy watching telly


very true....................


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> are you on drugs? surely you cannot be serious?


Why would they be on drugs!
Looks like a good post to me!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Why would they be on drugs!
> Looks like a good post to me!


what giving a dog a warning if they dont behave the next time their hind legs are gonna get a walloping?

is this c beebies


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> are you on drugs? surely you cannot be serious?


i hope not funny people


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> what giving a dog a warning if they dont behave the next time their hind legs are gonna get a walloping?
> 
> is this c beebies


Think you may have read it wrong gorgeous! I read it to mean that the dogs were 'checked' - if this continued to be uusucessful then they would be slapped!

Like when they jump on the sofa! you put them down so many times with a firm NO! if they still continue to do it over and over again then a short sharpe shock is administrated! its called diversion tactics!

Least thats how I read it! NOT that I do it I add

DT


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

If my children misbehave and after there verbal warnings and they do not listen, then yes i will give them a tap on there hand or back of the leg. 

I dont have a dog so not relevant to me. 

People all do things differently and have there own opinions on this matter but i dont think there is a right or wrong answer with this subject.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sahunk said:


> If you think that when you hit a child you will earn there "Respect" then thats untrue.... When a kid gets beat a few times, they realise that if they dont do they right things they will get beat, so they will be so scared of you, they will not enjoy life! Put yourself in your childs position! Also if you got beat as a child (as some of you have) you think that it is fine to bet your child, But remember how it felt for you!!! :cursing:


Bur we arnt talking about beating kids or dogs that is not the issue a smack is totally different to hitting, beating, i wouild never have beat my children but they most certainly got a smack when needed.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> As you said earlier this is one area that we shall never agree so please do not think I am aiming this at you personally! I'm not!
> 
> When I was a child if a lad were up to no good the local copper would take him by his ear and read him the right act! There was no need for paperwork, and wasting police time!
> 
> ...


No worries! I love a good debate! 

I can totally see what you're saying but just because that didn't happen in your day doesn't mean what did happen was right, and that there weren't a whole other set of problems then that we don't have so much now.

Ruling by fear really doesn't achieve much in the long run.

And also, let's remember that society was very different then. I don't mean to be in any way ageist or anything like that, so please don't take offence! 

People were less well educated, values and morals were entirely different from what they are now, there weren't the choices available now, people just didn't have information at their fingertips, and information is power and power means that the balance shifts and so we have progressed, as far as I'm concerned, to a state where a lot of us realise that violence is not the answer, that brings with it a whole other set of problems.

What did happen in the past was that loads of kids were being physically abused as the norm and that it was never mentioned, just like sexual abuse was never mentioned. People think these issues are new, they're not, they're just talked about now and people have the confidence to talk about what's happening to them because they have information available to them now to let them know this isn't the norm, and so they have power, and so the balnce changes, etc. etc.

To me, if someone hit me or grabbed me by the scruff of the ear or gave me the belt at school, the last thing I would do is repsect them, especially if it was someone that was supposed to be setting an example to me, like a policeman or a teacher.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

kath123 said:


> If my children misbehave and after there verbal warnings and they do not listen, then yes i will give them a tap on there hand or back of the leg.
> 
> I dont have a dog so not relevant to me.
> 
> People all do things differently and have there own opinions on this matter but i dont think there is a right or wrong answer with this subject.


and there is nothing wrong with that a tap a slap will do no lasting harm to a child.


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Bur we arnt talking about beating kids or dogs that is not the issue a smack is totally different to hitting, beating, i wouild never have beat my children but they most certainly got a smack when needed.


Well yer, Beat to me means a smack basically!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> and there is nothing wrong with that a tap a slap will do no lasting harm to a child.


How do you know that? can you honestly say that that's true for every child that's been smacked?

And more to the point, as I keep saying, why do people think it's right for an adult to lift their hand to a child?

Don't people see how physically intimidating that is never mind emotionally and psychologically?


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sahunk said:


> Well yer, Beat to me means a smack basically!


well that is an exaggeration im afraid!! As smack and beat is 2 completely different things believe me!!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> and there is nothing wrong with that a tap a slap will do no lasting harm to a child.


having worked with children i can assure u that ur wrong with this statement...


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

2 drunken youths were in my garden they gave me abuse i knocked one over they now have respect for me and i dont get hassle from them anymore if i had spoken nice to them they would be back


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


Excellent question!!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sahunk said:


> Well yer, Beat to me means a smack basically!


I can assure you!
If it came from me you would sure know the difference!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


No i dont agree with this, and as i have been beaten by quite a few men in my life i know what it is like to be beaten and have broken limbs and end up in hospital with fractures, bruises, broken bones.

This is completely different to a tap on the hand or back of a leg if the child is not behaving acceptably.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

borderer said:


> 2 drunken youths were in my garden they gave me abuse i knocked one over they now have respect for me and i dont get hassle from them anymore if i had spoken nice to them they would be back


were they trying to nick your onions


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I can assure you!
> If it came from me you would sure know the difference!


ay he would no


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


Don't see a problem with knocking the old man around myself!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


Very good question!!

Completely abhor it myself! Having seen my mother go through it I will always step in if I see such a thing going on.

So did my brother and what thanks did he get? He was stabbed to death!!! 

But I will always stand up for what I believe in, even if it makes me look like the t*** or gets me hurt/killed. I'd rather go out knowing I had saved someones life than dying in my sleep!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

kath123 said:


> No i dont agree with this, and as i have been beaten by quite a few men in my life i know what it is like to be beaten and have broken limbs and end up in hospital with fractures, bruises, broken bones.
> 
> This is completely different to a tap on the hand or back of a leg if the child is not behaving acceptably.


Another good reply Kath - keep em coming!
lol
DT


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Very good question!!
> 
> Completely abhor it myself! Having seen my mother go through it I will always step in if I see such a thing going on.
> 
> ...


would never hit her indoors she would kill mehmy:


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> so for those of you that think smacking a child or an animal is acceptable, do you think it is acceptable for a man to smack a woman or vice versa?


Utterly ridiculous statement!

My mum was beaten by her ex husband, but she smacked me as a child and I can tell you honestly there is absolutely no comparison. A sore bum never landed anyone in hospital. I have been a smacked child and I can whole heartedly say I deserved every smack I got and I can also say I never got smacked for the same thing twice as I never repeat offended. 
I have always had animals and have never lifted my hands to them as they cannot reason with us primarily because they don't speak our language. If you tell a child repeatedly not to do something and the child does then although there are other methods of punishment whether or not a parent choses to smack or not is up to them! 
In no way should someone who has ever smacked a child be likened to a woman beater.


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

borderer said:


> would never hit her indoors she would kill mehmy:


:laugh: I know you would never do that x


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> Utterly ridiculous statement!
> 
> My mum was beaten by her ex husband, but she smacked me as a child and I can tell you honestly there is absolutely no comparison. A sore bum never landed anyone in hospital. I have been a smacked child and I can whole heartedly say I deserved every smack I got and I can also say I never got smacked for the same thing twice as I never repeat offended.
> I have always had animals and have never lifted my hands to them as they cannot reason with us primarily because they don't speak our language. If you tell a child repeatedly not to do something and the child does then although there are other methods of punishment whether or not a parent choses to smack or not is up to them!
> In no way should someone who has ever smacked a child be likened to a woman beater.


Excuse me it was not a statement it was a question. I never said beating a woman I said SMACK. where did I liken it to a woman beater?


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> Utterly ridiculous statement!
> 
> My mum was beaten by her ex husband, but she smacked me as a child and I can tell you honestly there is absolutely no comparison. A sore bum never landed anyone in hospital. I have been a smacked child and I can whole heartedly say I deserved every smack I got and I can also say I never got smacked for the same thing twice as I never repeat offended.
> I have always had animals and have never lifted my hands to them as they cannot reason with us primarily because they don't speak our language. If you tell a child repeatedly not to do something and the child does then although there are other methods of punishment whether or not a parent choses to smack or not is up to them!
> In no way should someone who has ever smacked a child be likened to a woman beater.


But where do you draw the line? Who says what level of violence is acceptable - a smack or a full-on beating? What right does anyone have to say what's right or worng and where the line is? How do you enforce it?

The point is it's all violence, yes, to varying degrees but it's all violence.

You either agree with violence or you don't, and if you do then I'd like to see a set of properly enforceable guidelines that would make it clear for everyone about what's acceptable and what's not and how that would work in reality.


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> But where do you draw the line? Who says what level of violence is acceptable - a smack or a full-on beating? What right does anyone have to say what's right or worng and where the line is? How do you enforce it?
> 
> The point is it's all violence, yes, to varying degrees but it's all violence.
> 
> You either agree with violence or you don't, and if you do then I'd like to see a set of properly enforceable guidelines that would make it clear for everyone about what's acceptable and what's not and how that would work in reality.


It is very hard to draw the line.

I could easily say if my OH hit me I would be gone but children can't leave their parents. Of course if you're American you can divorce them 

It's a very hard line to distinguish!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> :laugh: I know you would never do that x


might give you a little smack:biggrin5::thumbup::drool::001_wub::yesnod::yesnod:


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

she asked what if a woman is going to be smacked and people referr to it as beating... but if other referr to smacking children as beatings then its different


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

borderer said:


> might give you a little smack:biggrin5::thumbup::drool::001_wub::yesnod::yesnod:


Oh bordie  Now that's the kind of smacking I like! :001_wub:


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Natik said:


> having worked with children i can assure u that ur wrong with this statement...


Smacking a child on a regular basis is not acceptable, the kids that are mentally scared and do suffer lasting damage are children that are hit, beaten, not smacked once or twice.
A lot of children i have met and i have met enough to know what i am talking about are children tht have never had any love, been left alone to look after themselves, verbally abused (one of the most damaging) these children are left with a low or no self esteem, and unfortunately for some go down the same path, to me that is criminal.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

What a lovely safe world we all live in! the moon is made of cheese !!! and maybe we should free all the rapists, murderers and child abusers back into society! 

The punishment needs to fit the crime!! Stopping it in its tracks imo is the best cure! and it that takes a few slaps then so be it!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Smacking a child on a regular basis is not acceptable, the kids that are mentally scared and do suffer lasting damage are children that are hit, beaten, not smacked once or twice.
> A lot of children i have met and i have met enough to know what i am talking about are children tht have never had any love, been left alone to look after themselves, verbally abused (one of the most damaging) these children are left with a low or no self esteem, and unfortunately for some go down the same path.


why not on a regular basis though? I thought a smack is harmless and doesnt hurt?


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> Excuse me it was not a statement it was a question. I never said beating a woman I said SMACK. where did I liken it to a woman beater?


You were quite clearly drawing a comparison between smacking a child and domestic abuse, regardless of the words (and punctuation) you used.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> But where do you draw the line? Who says what level of violence is acceptable - a smack or a full-on beating? What right does anyone have to say what's right or worng and where the line is? How do you enforce it?
> 
> The point is it's all violence, yes, to varying degrees but it's all violence.
> 
> You either agree with violence or you don't, and if you do then I'd like to see a set of properly enforceable guidelines that would make it clear for everyone about what's acceptable and what's not and how that would work in reality.


it is very hard to work in reality when setting guidelines for punishing children.

obviously it is the parents choice. but legally the guidelines are if a child is to receive a smack that leaves a red mark for longer than 10 minutes than that is regarded as abuse.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> What a lovely safe world we all live in! the moon is made of cheese !!! and maybe we should free all the rapists, murderers and child abusers back into society!
> 
> The punishment needs to fit the crime!! Stopping it in its tracks imo is the best cure! and it that takes a few slaps then so be it!


if the bubble living do gooders had there way they would all be freehmy:


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> You were quite clearly drawing a comparison between smacking a child and domestic abuse, regardless of the words (and punctuation) you used.


yes i was drawing a comparison between the two - but on a par. a tooth for a tooth a nail for a nail.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

borderer said:


> if i done wrong when i was a kid i got a belt round the ear.if we did wrong at school we got the cane we had respect for older people and police most kids these days have respect for nothing


*i agree 100% with ya borderer,and look where all the do gooders have got this country into. i remember when i said i'd never a smack a child of mine, but i did and i wouldn't change a thing.*


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Excuse me it was not a statement it was a question. I never said beating a woman I said SMACK. where did I liken it to a woman beater?


Where do men hit women or vice versa??? On the back of the hand or the back of the leg??? I dont think so do you???

You know you are talking about adults abusing each other!!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> it is very hard to work in reality when setting guidelines for punishing children.
> 
> obviously it is the parents choice. but legally the guidelines are if a child is to receive a smack that leaves a red mark for longer than 10 minutes than that is regarded as abuse.


perhaps the killers of little james bulger should have received a few more of these! maybe then they would have known right from wrong!! OLr do we get the sob story that they were deprived!

NO - not saying we should beat children! but sadly I think there are a lot of orrible spoilt children around these days! Who think they can get away with things because NO-ONE can do anything!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

kath123 said:


> Where do men hit women or vice versa??? On the back of the hand or the back of the leg??? I dont think so do you???
> 
> You know you are talking about adults abusing each other!!


I am not here to argue. Just asking a genuine question thats all. I am entitled to and I am entitled to my opinion too.

why are you so agressive?


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

kath123 said:


> Where do men hit women or vice versa??? On the back of the hand or the back of the leg??? I dont think so do you???
> 
> You know you are talking about adults abusing each other!!


my gran used to smack my grandpa on the back of his head when he did something she didnt like....


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *i agree 100% with ya borderer,and look where all the do gooders have got this country into. i remember when i said i'd never a smack a child of mine, but i did and i wouldn't change a thing.*


thank you


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> I am not here to argue. Just asking a genuine question thats all. I am entitled to and I am entitled to my opinion too.
> 
> why are you so agressive?


She's not being aggressive, just speaking from past experience


----------



## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *i agree 100% with ya borderer,and look where all the do gooders have got this country into. i remember when i said i'd never a smack a child of mine, but i did and i wouldn't change a thing.*


I agree too - bring back the cane, it didn't do us any harm.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Natik said:


> why not on a regular basis though? I thought a smack is harmless and doesnt hurt?


because there is no need to smack a child on a regular basis, whether it is harmless or not there are other methods of getting a point across, instillng right from wrong into a child ime not talking about smacking being the only form of discipline what ime saying if a parent feels that their child needs a smack for whatever they have done at the time there will be no lasting harm.

I have never met a child looked into the history, heard from a child that is so mixed up at sometimes 5 years of age, that its because my parents tapped, slapped my legs a couple of times we are talking about children suffering lasting damage from real abuse/violence.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

sequeena said:


> She's not being aggressive, just speaking from past experience


well sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention too.

will leave this thread now.

thank you.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> I am not here to argue. Just asking a genuine question thats all. I am entitled to and I am entitled to my opinion too.
> 
> why are you so agressive?


Because you asked a question and people are replying to you and saying "how the hell can you distinguish men smacking woman and vice versa with giving a tap on the back of a hand or leg to a child??


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> I am not here to argue. Just asking a genuine question thats all. I am entitled to and I am entitled to my opinion too.
> 
> why are you so agressive?


I can 100% see where you are coming from ! BUT I think this is a completely seperate issue! you cannot compare domestic violence with a child recieving a short sharpe slap when overstepping the mark! We are not talking of beating a child! merely of administrating a one off slap to either the hand or leg when they have continuosly misbehaved!

DT


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> *there are other methods of getting a point across, instillng right from wrong into a child*


....very true!


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Natik said:


> ....very true!


Thats why i said there is no need to smack a child on a regular basis, but does no lasting damage if a parent feels that sometimes a smack is needed.


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> well sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention too.
> 
> will leave this thread now.
> 
> thank you.


Please don't feel you have to leave the thread!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> well sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention too.
> 
> will leave this thread now.
> 
> thank you.


No need to leave! your input is as vital as anyone elses! and you have as much right to put your views forward as the rest of us!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Thats why i said there is no need to smack a child on a regular basis.


.....neither occasionaly!


----------



## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> You all know how I love an emotive subject, and couldn't shy away from this one.
> 
> Firstly, I have always felt that anyone who smacks their dog almost deserves to be bitten. I have never used corporal punishment on any of my dogs, nor would I. However, I was smacked as a child albeit on very rare occasions and never hard.
> 
> ...


Simple - Dogs are nice!! Ankle biters are horrible!! :idea: İ think crate training should be compulsory for all chidren!!!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I can 100% see where you are coming from ! BUT I think this is a completely seperate issue! you cannot compare domestic violence with a child recieving a short sharpe slap when overstepping the mark! We are not talking of beating a child! merely of administrating a one off slap to either the hand or leg when they have continuosly misbehaved!
> 
> DT


Why not? It's all violence!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> I agree too - bring back the cane, it didn't do us any harm.


And the stocks and public floggings!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> well sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention too.
> 
> will leave this thread now.
> 
> thank you.


There is no need to leave the thread, you have your views as much as i have mine, and we are all entitled to them.

Its a forum and we are not all going to agree espeically on such a touchy subject.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Why not? It's all violence!


But we are NOT discussing violence! we are discussing whether or not a child should be slapped for continuosly misbehaving! There is a vast difference between a short sharpe slap and a harsh beating!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But we are NOT discussing violence! we are discussing whether or not a child should be slapped for continuosly misbehaving! There is a vast difference between a short sharpe slap and a harsh beating!


I've never once said there wasn'[t a difference, what i have said is that whether it's a slap or a beating, they're both violent acts.

Where do you draw the line? And what makes one more acceptable than the other?


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But we are NOT discussing violence! we are discussing whether or not a child should be slapped for continuosly misbehaving! There is a vast difference between a short sharpe slap and a harsh beating!


children arent born misbehaving...maybe asking urself why the child behaves the way it does instead of slapping it would help more!!!!!

Thats how children shut off and if they have a real problem keep it for themselves out of fear of getting slaps


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I've never once said there wasn'[t a difference, what i have said is that whether it's a slap or a beating, they're both violent acts.
> 
> Where do you draw the line? And what makes one more acceptable than the other?


Because the two senarios are a big difference apart from each other!!!


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> we are talking about children suffering lasting damage from real abuse/violence.


I thought we were talking about dogs, not children? am I on the wrong website?


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

kath123 said:


> Because the two senarios are a big difference apart from each other!!!


The scenarios are irrelevant, what's relevant to this discussion is the act that follows by an individual, it's either violent or not.

Okay, here's a definition of violence from the Oxford English Dictionary

*violence

 noun 1 behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill. 2 strength of emotion or an unpleasant or destructive natural force.*

Okay, so why do people smack their kids? To use a behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt...

That makes smacking an act of violence by it's very definition.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

turkeylad said:


> İ think crate training should be compulsory for all chidren!!!


I second that!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I've never once said there wasn'[t a difference, what i have said is that whether it's a slap or a beating, they're both violent acts.
> 
> Where do you draw the line? And what makes one more acceptable than the other?


Society in general and the do-gooders have knackered the situation! Tell my why teachers are having nervous breakdowns due to the class they are teaching have become unruly, why are these teachers frightened of the children they are teaching! why do they have no control!! Children could NEVER intimidate teachers in my day!

Why do the police have to call for back up when a group of lads are abusive !!!

I have a friend who told me her child said to her recently!
You can't do anything to me! I can say or do as I like! If you push me again I shall call childline (or whatever) We are talking professional people here! A chiropidist and a surveyer! She was merely trying to restrain a 13 year old from leaving the house dolled up to the nines!

And why are the more teenage pregnancies then there have EVER been!

Do bloody gooders thats why! kids don't know right from wrong!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> I second that!


Carried !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Society in general and the do-gooders have knackered the situation! Tell my why teachers are having nervous breakdowns due to the class they are teaching have become unruly, why are these teachers frightened of the children they are teaching! why do they have no control!! Children could NEVER intimidate teachers in my day!
> 
> Why do the police have to call for back up when a group of lads are abusive !!!
> 
> ...


because their parents watch too much telly instead of spending quality and educational time with their kids.... 

those children are often from troubled households where the parents themselves need help 

also u have to look with who ur child is socializing with!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> The scenarios are irrelevant, what's relevant to this discussion is the act that follows by an individual, it's either violent or not.
> 
> Okay, here's a definition of violence from the Oxford English Dictionary
> 
> ...


Believe me i do not want to hurt my children, but if after me telling them to stop misbehaving or doing wrong and they keep on doing it then i will use that tactic as a means to stop them.

And NO i do not like doing it and YES i do feel awful afterwards but as a child that was smacked as a child it did me no harm.

Some children will push you to your limits and just wont listen, Yes i have used the naughty step and no toys for a day but that also doesnt work all the time.

At the end of the day we are never going to agree on this subject but please dont ever have me down as a bad mum or a child beater because that is not fair.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Gotta say folks! I am off on my travels again tomorrow! I have really enjoyed tonight! but think its time I leave this alone now!
There are people speaking out of their arses on this! thats OK everyone is entitled to their opinions just so long as you know so are we all!!!! so continue as you like!! 
Goodnight to you all !
And enjoy!
no hard feelings!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Gotta say folks! I am off on my travels again tomorrow! I have really enjoyed tonight! but think its time I leave this alone now!
> There are people speaking out of their arses on this! thats OK everyone is entitled to their opinions just so long as you know so are we all!!!! so continue as you like!!
> Goodnight to you all !
> And enjoy!
> no hard feelings!


I hope you are including yourself within your statement of talking out of their arses.

Have a good travel.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Natik said:


> because their parents watch too much telly instead of spending quality and educational time with their kids....
> 
> those children are often from troubled households where the parents themselves need help
> 
> also u have to look with who ur child is socializing with!


This particular person seldom watches TV ! She is on the parents assocaition at the school! all the children bar this one a pillars of society! this one (the youngest) has been a problem from the age of seven!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> I hope you are including yourself within your statement of talking out of their arses.
> 
> Have a good travel.


...i second that


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> I hope you are including yourself within your statement of talking out of their arses.
> 
> Have a good travel.


Nah never - my gobs too big my arse ain't got a chance!! they who are know who they are!!!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> This particular person seldom watches TV ! She is on the parents assocaition at the school! all the children bar this one a pillars of society! this one (the youngest) has been a problem from the age of seven!


im sure there is a reason for it and there a professionals out there who can help to figure this out ....


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Nah never - my gobs too big my arse ain't got a chance!! they who are know who they are!!!


Hope I'm not one of them DT. Can't talk out of my arse because I'm bloody constipated


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Natik said:


> im sure there is a reason for it and there a professionals out there who can help to figure this out ....


Do-gooders you mean!


----------



## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I absolutely disagree with any form of violence towards children or animals.
> 
> For me, if you smack a dog then you deserve whatever may be coming to you in response from them.
> 
> ...


I agree with this.

I would never smack my children or my animals.

You couldn't just smack an adult without criminal charges so why is it acceptable to smack a child?


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> This particular person seldom watches TV ! She is on the parents assocaition at the school! all the children bar this one a pillars of society! this one (the youngest) has been a problem from the age of seven!


That's like a classic case.

Middle class professional parents, youngest child, spoiled rotten as a baby/toddler no doubt because she was the youngest, grows up and the parents have no idea why the child is a nightmare. Eh, because I would bet my bottom dollar that they didn't do all they should have been doing when she was very little.

Being on the Parents Association means diddly squat. That's just a pretencious position that people hold to make themselves look good, it's got nothing to do with how they really are as a parent.

So goodnight, no hard feelings, we clealry both talk out our arses, have a good journey!


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Cat_Crazy said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I would never smack my children or my animals.
> 
> You couldn't just smack an adult without criminal charges so why is it acceptable to smack a child?


Yeah OK...............


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Do-gooders you mean!


These so called do-gooders brought me out of my shell as a child and stopped me from topping myself.

So go go do gooders!! :001_tt2: :wink5:


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> That's like a classic case.
> 
> Middle class professional parents, youngest child, spoiled rotten as a baby/toddler no doubt because she was the youngest, grows up and the parents have no idea why the child is a nightmare. Eh, because I would bet my bottom dollar that they didn't do all they should have been doing when she was very little.
> 
> ...


But mine ain't hairy!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But mine ain't hairy!


Are you sure DT? Are you really really sure? :laugh:


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But mine ain't hairy!


You got proof of that?

Wasn't like that in my day....:wink5::001_tt2:


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

sequeena said:


> These so called do-gooders brought me out of my shell as a child and stopped me from topping myself.
> 
> So go go do gooders!! :001_tt2: :wink5:


Not sure why you bad repped me for the above post DT but I find it very offensive. Would you like to explain why? 
Seems to be like you can't handle the truth!! Everyone has a right to their opinions - YEAH BLOODY RIGHT.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

You are so funni you lot! thanks for the entertainment!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)




----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Not sure why you bad repped me for the above post DT but I find it very offensive. Would you like to explain why?
> Seems to be like you can't handle the truth!! Everyone has a right to their opinions - YEAH BLOODY RIGHT.


Maybe coz I don't like you attitute sunshine! never have never shall!

And to add! dont like drama queens!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Maybe coz I don't like you attitute sunshine! never have never shall!


You've changed your tune, not sure why you're offended by me all of a sudden   What exactly have I done?


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

kath123 said:


> well that is an exaggeration im afraid!! As smack and beat is 2 completely different things believe me!!


Not an "Exaggeration", Just a miss-understanding....


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

I respect you a lot DT but sometimes you just amaze me


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sahunk said:


> Not an "Exaggeration", Just a miss-understanding....


No problem.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> You've changed your tune, not sure why you're offended by me all of a sudden   What exactly have I done?


Never change my tune! never have, never shall! them who know me know me for what I am!!! don't often participate in idle gossip with you! 
put me on ignore!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Never change my tune! never have, never shall! them who know me know me for what I am!!! don't often participate in idle gossip with you!
> put me on ignore!


Why?


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
> 
> I respect you a lot DT but sometimes you just amaze me


Yep! seems I amaze a few!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Yeah OK...............


thats kinda degrading attidute towards someone elses opinion....


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Yep! seems I amaze a few!


You really have this time! Really haven't got a clue why you've gone off on one! I pm'd you..don't want a blow out on this thread. It was a good debate.


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

Yer, over PM would be better, lets not hijack the thread.....


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

sequeena said:


> You really have this time! Really haven't got a clue why you've gone off on one! I pm'd you..don't want a blow out on this thread. It was a good debate.


Great debate! goodnight!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Great debate! goodnight!


Goodnight, enjoy your trip.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Natik said:


> thats kinda degrading attidute towards someone elses opinion....


Opps a daisy! norty DT! 
Maybe I am just sick to death of reading Bullsh*t

Believe you me ! I have tried to the best of my ability to help and advise on thios forum! there are however some that come on just to argue and stir the brownstuff!

Well you are welcome to em!

hope they can offer advise when needed!
DT


----------



## Whisperstails (Aug 26, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Maybe coz I don't like you attitute sunshine! never have never shall!
> 
> And to add! dont like drama queens!


I agree!!! Poor me me me. People are sick of hearing about your sordid life Sequeena. Ia m glad someone else can see what I see!!!


----------



## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Whisperstails said:


> I agree!!! Poor me me me. People are sick of hearing about your sordid life Sequeena. Ia m glad someone else can see what I see!!!


Okay cool. I'm not going to defend myself, seems a waste of energy and it will only descend into an argument


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Yikes, it really looks as though this thread is in danger of being closed, and I do hope that does not happen since its a serious and sensitive subject.

For anyone who has suffered at the hands of an abusive parent or family member, I can absolutely understand their passionate response. However, I should state that my mum, despite slapping me on a couple of occasions certainly caused me no traumour, or lasting damage.

I absolutely adored my parents and my life has been emptier since their death. I thank God every day that I was born into such a loving family with just enough parental control to keep me on the right path.

Sadly, the youth of today are not a good reflection of political correctness. Would I bring back the cane, no I would not, but that said neither would I wish to be a teacher. There is no control in the classrooms anymore, since the word 'respect', seems long gone from the English Dictionary.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> I thought we were talking about dogs, not children? am I on the wrong website?


Suppose to be i think we all knew how this would turn out.:rolleyes shame because this was a good subject if we could have stuck to the original subject. Ask for the comments to sequeena, of course this sort of subject will pull at a few heartstrings and bring out emotions lets just think ouselves lucky we having had what she has and give her a break, the comments to her was well below the belt.


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Opps a daisy! norty DT!
> Maybe I am just sick to death of reading Bullsh*t
> 
> DT


good to know how u think about others opinions..... 

Maybe u need a bit respect smacked into u


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Natik said:


> good to know how u think about others opinions.....
> 
> Maybe u need a bit respect smacked into u


Now that made me laugh! 

Seriously though, I'm quite shocked at how a healthy debate degenerated so rapidly into such viciousness and I'm even more surprised at the lack of respect that shown towards people's views, especially by people who bang on about respect!

Ironic or what?


----------



## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Now that made me laugh!
> 
> Seriously though, I'm quite shocked at how a healthy debate degenerated so rapidly into such viciousness and I'm even more surprised at the lack of respect that shown towards people's views, especially by people who bang on about respect!
> 
> Ironic or what?


Agreed....I dont know why or how it spiraled into an argument, But i thought this might be one of the serious subjects that DOESNT get closed... Guess i was wrong... ut:


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

o....k.....

Back on track shall we??

I was smacked as a kid, and to be fair my mum only had to do it a few times (my dad never ever smacked me), it just let me know i had done REALLY wrong. And to be fair it was enough to keep me on track, my bro too.
I think do it TOO much for too small reasons and it becomes nothing to the kid.

My OH was smacked ALOT for seemingly tiny things (his dad had a temper) and as such it didnt act as a deterrant as he was gunna get a smack regardless cos a kid cant be 100% perfect.

Dogs on the other hand dont have the same reasoning power as people do, and a child will understand that they did wrong and why its wrong. A dog wont/cant. If it does wrong its normally due to the fact it doesnt understand what is expected fully and the boundries have not been set, and so smacking it would achieve nothing.

Edit: with kids, i think the very rare smack is ok so long as its not enough to cause REAL pain, not just a sting, and the child has to understand why its being smacked...otherwise nothing is achieved


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I shall never change my opinion when it comes to smacking - children or animals come to that.

A 'short sharp slap' is not the answer to childrens behaviour today or in the past.

If I am put in the category of 'do gooder' or talking 'brown stuff' quite frankly I don't give a diddly squat.


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Natik said:


> good to know how u think about others opinions.....
> 
> Maybe u need a bit respect smacked into u


In your drreams!

And it is remarks like that that make matters worse!


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Both my brothers and myself were abused as kids , we were smacked on a daily basis , caned with thin garden canes (the thinner the better in my Mums eyes , the thin ones hurt more) , once I was hit over and over with a belt and buckle and couldnt go to school cos of all the marks. 
To me that was normal , its what I grew up with , you never knew if a smack/beating was coming or why , they just did

whats weird is I see nothing wrong with smacking a childs bum if they refuse to listen to reason and behave , imo there is a huge difference between abuse and discipline


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Mese said:


> whats weird is I see nothing wrong with smacking a childs bum if they refuse to listen to reason and behave , imo there is a huge difference between abuse and discipline


That point exactly. There is no excuse to mindlessly beat a child, or abuse a child, but that is not the same as a quick smack.

The grey area, i feel, is where the line is drawn between a smack and abuse - in some (disturbed) peoples heads, what the majority see as child abuse, they see as discipline.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I agree with smacking NOT beating - smacking! - there is a HUGE difference!! and most people who have children dont just instantly smack -

There is a routine of three strikes and your out in our house when we have the boys - they do something wrong the get warned - they do it again they get warned again - do it again and then yes they get a smack! my OH only has to say it once!! and thats the end! because they KNOW what the consequences will be - doesnt stop them loving their dad and having fun! and the last time he had to actually smack one of them was over a year ago on holiday - when one of them went off on his own - he got a 3 smacks on the back of his hand - but he soon got over it and was having fun in the pool again - and he NEVER went off on his own again!! Kids need to know BOUNDARIES its about following thru -

Beating a kid with your fist for no reason is abuse - 

Smacking on the hand or bum because they repeatedly do not do as they are told or do something seriously wrong is dicipline -


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Just wondering how many of the members on here have actually got children, ime sure there will be some that will,

have kids and dont smack
have kids and have smacked
have no kids and say they wouldnt smack, ive got to say the ones that have no kids need to be a little quieter and not insult the ones that have been there done that as no one really knows unless they have been there, very easy to sit on the fence.

Then lets all agree to disagree please


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> In your drreams!
> 
> And it is remarks like that that make matters worse!


as long ur remarks are ok :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I think MOST of us are all singing from the same sheet, a smack is one thing (and the point in question) but beating is abuse, completely different. It appears some people have a tendency to turn things to their way of thinking without being open to the views of others. I for one was smacked and have no issues with a parent smacking their child. Not dangling it by the arm and hammering it but a smack which is what I believe the thread is concerned with. The abuse soap box is clearly alive and well but I have not read one post on here that thinks abuse is a good idea so why is this part of the debate?


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

And my final say on this is with relation to smacking children! we are not talking about beating them! We are talking about an occassional Slap! as I said before the is no longer diclypline in out schools or towards the police! You can argue all day the this is down to the way in which the children are treated at home and that it is the parents fault for lack of stimulation of whatever you want to call it!! You can all think what you like! And so shall shall I until someone proves me wrong!

And moving slightly away from this what about conscription then! what are your thoughts on this!


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

To clarify my position:
dont have kids
was smacked as a child
think many kids out there need a smack
would smack my child if they misbehaved and did not take a telling

(am I a violent abuser?)


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> I think MOST of us are all singing from the same sheet, a smack is one thing (and the point in question) but beating is abuse, completely different. It appears some people have a tendency to turn things to their way of thinking without being open to the views of others. I for one was smacked and have no issues with a parent smacking their child. Not dangling it by the arm and hammering it but a smack which is what I believe the thread is concerned with. The abuse soap box is clearly alive and well but I have not read one post on here that thinks abuse is a good idea so why is this part of the debate?


Exactly good point!! and it really irriates me when some say that people who smack lose control!! that is absolute bull! when my partner smack one of the boys (if he has to) then it is in a controlled way - no shouting or pulling or anything just 3 short sharp smacks - and they are told WHY that has happened.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> To clarify my position:
> dont have kids
> was smacked as a child
> think many kids out there need a smack
> ...


No!. . . . . . . would make a sensible parent, with behaved knowing right from wrong kids


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And moving slightly away from this what about conscription then! what are your thoughts on this!


Im torn on conscription.... I have some friends who are from countries where you still spend a yr or so in the services and I tell you what... It done them the world of good! (norway in this case). They came back disciplined and mature when they went away big kids!
I also have friends here who joined up in this country, and it also improved them (although those that served any real time in Afghan/iraq rarely talk about their experiances).

I am torn because i think "would I want to spent a yr in the army, or my husband, or my brother". Maybe not.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Exactly good point!! and it really irriates me when some say that people who smack lose control!! that is absolute bull! when my partner smack one of the boys (if he has to) then it is in a controlled way - no shouting or pulling or anything just 3 short sharp smacks - and they are told WHY that has happened.


That's great that there's no control lost from your partner.

That doesn't mean that everyone who chooses to smack a child doesn't lose control, some people do.

To be honest, I find it frightening the number of people on here who can't see that while a smack is not a beating (I've never once said that), a smack is still an act of violence.

Lifting your hand to anyone or anything is an act of violence. It's not an opinion it's a fact.

I don't know what else people would call it. In fact, what do people think they're doing when they're smakcing their children? What would you call that if not violence? It's not discussion, it's not debate, it's a physical act intending to hurt which is violence.

Which goes back round again to the same point that any kind of violence from an adult towards a child is completely unacceptable.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok here is an instance 

one of the boyz a few years back stole some money from his mum and partners mantlepice - £20! - they were up all night with him trying to get to the truth - no joy - knew they had to nip it in the bud - so hence he was told "will have to tell your dad" - that was it - tears, sorries, will never do it again - anyway was too late got put over my OH's knee and smacked on bum 3 times - hard! He cried for a bit but has NEVER EVER stole one more penny!!!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HighlandQuine said:


> That's great that there's no control lost from your partner.
> 
> That doesn't mean that everyone who chooses to smack a child doesn't lose control, some people do.
> 
> ...


Sorry it is not an act of violence it is DISCIPLINE!!! violence is out of control thrashings! - Im not disputing that there are some parents out there who beat there child with belts etc - that is wrong - but a controlled slap makes the child aware that they have done wrong!!!


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

As i said last night in my previous posts, yes i smack my boys if i HAVE to!!! 

But i am no child abuser or child beater!!! 

And i cannot see how anybody can say that people who discilpline there children in this way are classed in this category of scum!!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Can I also add that even though my OH has smacked the boys they ABSOLUTELY ADORE HIM! they have the best relationship ever - they talk about things, they know they can come and confide in him, and they know he has their back - he also tells them he loves them no matter what and even though he might tell them off sometimes it doesnt mean he doesnt love them - and they know that!!!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

kath123 said:


> As i said last night in my previous posts, yes i smack my boys if i HAVE to!!!
> 
> But i am no child abuser or child beater!!!
> 
> And i cannot see how anybody can say that people who discilpline there children in this way are classed in this category of scum!!


Okay, if two adults were having an arguement and it got heated and one of them lifted their hand to the other and gave them a slap because they thought they were doing wrong, what's that?

That's violence.

If a child is misbehaving and the adult is unable to reason with them and lifts their hand gives them a slap because they thought they were doing wrong, what's that?

That's violence, but much worse because it's a fully grown adult that's using violence towards a child.

What the hell kind of message does that send out?


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Okay, if two adults were having an arguement and it got heated and one of them lifted their hand to the other and gave them a slap because they thought they were doing wrong, what's that?
> 
> That's violence.
> 
> ...


When 2 adults are violent to each other do they smack each other on the back of the hand???

Do they smack each other on the back of the leg???

NO!!!! They dont!!!

And speaking from my own life i do not smack them as hard as what an adult would smack another adult.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HighlandQuine said:


> Okay, if two adults were having an arguement and it got heated and one of them lifted their hand to the other and gave them a slap because they thought they were doing wrong, what's that?
> 
> That's violence.
> 
> ...


But we are not talking about ADULTS we are talking about CHILDREN - who WE are in charge of! they have to be taught right from wrong - I have suffered domestic abuse and I can ASSURE you that a smack on the legs or hand is no where near the same !!!! ok - answer me this then - since all smacking is no longer allowed say in the last two generations - has this made children behave better???? do they have more respect for others??? do they know what is right and wrong??? ......NO!! so this new way of dealing with kids is not working!!!!!!


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Okay, if two adults were having an arguement and it got heated and one of them lifted their hand to the other and gave them a slap because they thought they were doing wrong, what's that?
> 
> That's violence.
> 
> ...


We are talking children! but seeing as you have extended it to adults!

What about our soilders! what should they do? stand there and get shot! can guess your answer!


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> But we are not talking about ADULTS we are talking about CHILDREN - who WE are in charge of! they have to be taught right from wrong - I have suffered domestic abuse and I can ASSURE you that a smack on the legs or hand is no where near the same !!!! ok - answer me this then - since all smacking is no longer allowed say in the last two generations - has this made children behave better???? do they have more respect for others??? do they know what is right and wrong??? ......NO!! so this new way of dealing with kids is not working!!!!!!


So if we all smack our kids then there will be no more problems? Life will return to times of yore, and all will be well? Children will, because they've had a smack on the back of the hand or leg or wherever. automatically respect teachers, police etc., because of that?

So tell me then, what sort of things do your kids get a smack for? Because they're being naughty and not doing as they're told, or is it because they're not respecting teachers or police or what?

Because if they're being smacked for being naughty around the home, how does this then translate into respect for authority?


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> But we are not talking about ADULTS we are talking about CHILDREN - who WE are in charge of! *they have to be taught right from wrong* - I have suffered domestic abuse and I can ASSURE you that a smack on the legs or hand is no where near the same !!!! ok - answer me this then - since all smacking is no longer allowed say in the last two generations - has this made children behave better???? do they have more respect for others??? do they know what is right and wrong??? ......NO!! so this new way of dealing with kids is not working!!!!!!


exactly...they have to be taught and not smacked.

Parents often use the word "disciplin" for smacking as an excuse for them not being able to handle the situation in any other way or have failed in previous attempts for a number of reasons.... there are great parental courses out there to help out instead to have to resolve to physical punishment....

Again, disciplin is a long process often combined with sweat and effort and being consistant in their rules and often its the parents failing to obey those rules themselves relusting in children not taking this rules so seriously resulting in them being smacked where its too often the parent who failed in first place....


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We are talking children! but seeing as you have extended it to adults!
> 
> What about our soilders! what should they do? stand there and get shot! can guess your answer!


Yeah, I bet you can guess my answer.

If someone chose to join the armed forces then they kow what will be expected of them, it's likely if they're sent in to combat, which is what they're trained for and what their job is by choice, so therefore there's a good chance they'll get shot or killed, or they'll have to shoot or kill someone.

Just like if someone chose to become a fireman/woman they know there's a good chance they might get burnt or killed in the line of duty.

It's a choice.

Must be great to have a crystal ball by the way, that you can work out my answers.

I really wish you'd stop the personal attacks and instead focus on a healthy debate. It would be much more productive and far less childish.


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Yeah, I bet you can guess my answer.
> 
> If someone chose to join the armed forces then they kow what will be expected of them, it's likely if they're sent in to combat, which is what they're trained for and what their job is by choice, so therefore there's a good chance they'll get shot or killed, or they'll have to shoot or kill someone.
> 
> ...


Please do not preach to me! You are the one that keeps deflecting from the original question! If you cannot take the replies you are encouraging then you should not dish it out!

DT


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Please do not preach to me! You are the one that keeps deflecting from the original question! If you cannot take the replies you are encouraging then you should not dish it out!
> 
> DT


I, like you, will preach to who I want, no difference between me and you, you're just someone sitting at a keyboard same as me.

I have not deflected from the original question, I never brought up conscription for example, I believe that was you.

Perhaps you should practice what you preach instead of preaching so much.

And anyway, i thought you weren't saying any more on the subject, and yet....


----------



## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

I sadly feel that this will turn into a argument between members as opposed to a debate....it seems most debates lately do not stay a debate but turn nasty........


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I think I have been doing ok so far in teaching my son right from wrong.
If he does something naughty or has a tantrum he gets out on the 'naughty step' for 4 minutes.
But- most of the things he gets put on the step for, he hs done them again.

He has been taught from day one to respect animals and never hurt them.. He has pushed the dogs around before and punched Dave and for those he got shouted at and sent to the step. But he has done it again.

I have smacked the back of his legs, because he wanted to get to the door while he was in a mood and he kicked the cat, realy hard and she screamed. I do not think merely putting him on a step for 4 minutes would have taught him how horrible that was. He has never put his feet near an animal again.

I don't smack the dogs because dogs do not know the difference between right and wrong or good and bad and if they are doing something bad it's down to my lack of training ie when Dave harrases the cat's it's because I don't give him time outs like I should be sometimes.


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> I, like you, will preach to who I want, no difference between me and you, you're just someone sitting at a keyboard same as me.
> 
> I have not deflected from the original question, I never brought up conscription for example, I believe that was you.
> 
> ...


Preach to who you like sunbeam! I cannot see you anymore - you are now on ignore! As it happens I prefer to apply my time to those threads that are pet related and to discuss threads where members require genuine help and advice!! 
Have a nice day!
DT


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

HighlandQuine said:


> So if we all smack our kids then there will be no more problems? Life will return to times of yore, and all will be well? Children will, because they've had a smack on the back of the hand or leg or wherever. automatically respect teachers, police etc., because of that?
> 
> So tell me then, what sort of things do your kids get a smack for? Because they're being naughty and not doing as they're told, or is it because they're not respecting teachers or police or what?
> 
> Because if they're being smacked for being naughty around the home, how does this then translate into respect for authority?


No its not JUST smacking that results in respect! Its Following Thru!! As I stated in one of my previous posts the last time my OH had to smack one of the boys was over a YEAR AGO - thats because they now understand that when dad tells them off thats it end of! it doesnt have to resort to smacking very often! - we only smack when they have constantly defied us after numerous WARNINGS of their behaviour! not just normal kid stuff, messing about - but SERIOUS things like LYING, STEALING, BACKCHATTING SWEARING - and there is the KEY!! they THINK about the CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS - and that then transpires into thier everyday life with regards to other people and yes authority because they know that someone in authority can PUNISH them. We also talk to the boys, we tell them right from wrong, we instill morals and standards! we teach them to tell the TRUTH because that is whats RIGHT in our house WE the ADULTS are in charge! and u know what kids flourish more under routine,guidance and boundaries than airy fairy do what u want techniques


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Preach to who you like sunbeam! I cannot see you anymore - you are now on ignore! As it happens I prefer to apply my time to those threads that are pet related and to discuss threads where members require genuine help and advice!!
> Have a nice day!
> DT


Perfect! 

Run away, run away! 

And if you're so interested in pet related threads what the hell did you come in to this one last night for and start a whole heap of unecessary trouble?


----------



## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I don't think any single person is responsible for starting a whole heap of trouble. I think the trouble has come from people not being able just accept another persons viewpoint without ramming their thoughts down everyone elses throats. No single person on here is right, it started as a debate whereby everyone is entitle to put forth their own views and arguments for or against a certain topic. Where it went bad was when people didnt agree with what others were saying.

As I posted before, this is a forum, definition :_ "a public meeting or assembly for open discussion" 

It is not an activists soapbox to try to turn people to your own way of thinking.

Accepts others views as you expect them to accept yours and there would be no trouble, this applied to everyone!


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

I dont understand how these arguments come about at all. they just seem to explode sometimes!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> I don't think any single person is responsible for starting a whole heap of trouble. I think the trouble has come from people not being able just accept another persons viewpoint without ramming their thoughts down everyone elses throats. No single person on here is right, it started as a debate whereby everyone is entitle to put forth their own views and arguments for or against a certain topic. Where it went bad was when people didnt agree with what others were saying.
> 
> As I posted before, this is a forum, definition :_ "a public meeting or assembly for open discussion"
> 
> ...


nobody was forcing opinions on anyone... people were giving their views and their explanations. .... when someone has no answers then they are most likly see it as a force of opinion on them


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

My own thoughts on this, for what it's worth are..

We teach children that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason, we teach children that violence is bad, and that fighting is wrong. So how can we use violence (that's what hitting a child is, however you dress it up) to discipline a child, and then wag a finger at them when they get to 12 and hit another child in the school playground?

Ultimately, all hitting a child does is teach it one thing - a greater force is always correct. If you can beat someone, tap, hit, whack, whatever, then that person is right. Is that the lesson we want to teach children? I don't believe it's right to hit animals either. I was never touched as a child, and I've never had a problem. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to discipline by using force, but I'm just saying that from my standpoint it's wrong, and it does not lead to a better society.


----------



## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

Kurlach said:


> My own thoughts on this, for what it's worth are..
> 
> We teach children that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason, we teach children that violence is bad, and that fighting is wrong. So how can we use violence (that's what hitting a child is, however you dress it up) to discipline a child, and then wag a finger at them when they get to 12 and hit another child in the school playground?
> 
> Ultimately, all hitting a child does is teach it one thing - a greater force is always correct. If you can beat someone, tap, hit, whack, whatever, then that person is right. Is that the lesson we want to teach children? I don't believe it's right to hit animals either. I was never touched as a child, and I've never had a problem. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to discipline by using force, but I'm just saying that from my standpoint it's wrong, and it does not lead to a better society.


Well said!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Kurlach said:


> My own thoughts on this, for what it's worth are..
> 
> We teach children that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason, we teach children that violence is bad, and that fighting is wrong. So how can we use violence (that's what hitting a child is, however you dress it up) to discipline a child, and then wag a finger at them when they get to 12 and hit another child in the school playground?
> 
> Ultimately, all hitting a child does is teach it one thing - a greater force is always correct. If you can beat someone, tap, hit, whack, whatever, then that person is right. Is that the lesson we want to teach children? I don't believe it's right to hit animals either. I was never touched as a child, and I've never had a problem. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to discipline by using force, but I'm just saying that from my standpoint it's wrong, and it does not lead to a better society.


great post :yesnod:


----------



## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

Kurlach said:


> My own thoughts on this, for what it's worth are..
> 
> We teach children that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason, we teach children that violence is bad, and that fighting is wrong. So how can we use violence (that's what hitting a child is, however you dress it up) to discipline a child, and then wag a finger at them when they get to 12 and hit another child in the school playground?
> 
> Ultimately, all hitting a child does is teach it one thing - a greater force is always correct. If you can beat someone, tap, hit, whack, whatever, then that person is right. Is that the lesson we want to teach children? I don't believe it's right to hit animals either. I was never touched as a child, and I've never had a problem. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to discipline by using force, but I'm just saying that from my standpoint it's wrong, and it does not lead to a better society.


Totally agree had to rep you for this


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Savahl said:


> Dogs on the other hand dont have the same reasoning power as people do, and a child will understand that they did wrong and why its wrong. A dog wont/cant. If it does wrong its normally due to the fact it doesnt understand what is expected fully and the boundries have not been set, and so smacking it would achieve nothing.
> 
> Edit: with kids, i think the very rare smack is ok so long as its not enough to cause REAL pain, not just a sting, and the child has to understand why its being smacked...otherwise nothing is achieved


I must disagree, my 5 year old lab knows the rules very well and reasons that if he thinks he can get away with it he will give it a go! i.e as soon as i turn my back he is looking to get on the sofa, when out walking if he sees a rabbit, he will have a cheeky look behind him to see if i'm watching then go! if i catch him and tell him to stop he won't go, once he's off and comes back he always has a shifty "ooppps I shouldn't have done that" look, if thats not reasoning i don't know what is? I think a lot of you rather simplistically underestimate the intelligence of your dogs.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> I don't smack the dogs because dogs do not know the difference between right and wrong or good and bad and if they are doing something bad it's down to my lack of training ie when Dave harrases the cat's it's because I don't give him time outs like I should be sometimes.


Again I disagree as with my last post - dogs do know right from wrong - i think you underestimate your dogs intelligence.


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> I must disagree, my 5 year old lab knows the rules very well and reasons that if he thinks he can get away with it he will give it a go! i.e as soon as i turn my back he is looking to get on the sofa, when out walking if he sees a rabbit, he will have a cheeky look behind him to see if i'm watching then go! if i catch him and tell him to stop he won't go, once he's off and comes back he always has a shifty "ooppps I shouldn't have done that" look, if thats not reasoning i don't know what is? I think a lot of you rather simplistically underestimate the intelligence of your dogs.


Have to agree to disagree then. My dog is very smart, he is well trained, does what i expect of him etc etc, but i dont think he is capable of making the conscious decision of "Im supposed to do A but instead i will do B" in the same way a 10yo child will. You dont have to agree with me, it is just what i believe.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> No its not JUST smacking that results in respect! Its Following Thru!! As I stated in one of my previous posts the last time my OH had to smack one of the boys was over a YEAR AGO - thats because they now understand that when dad tells them off thats it end of! it doesnt have to resort to smacking very often! - we only smack when they have constantly defied us after numerous WARNINGS of their behaviour! not just normal kid stuff, messing about - but SERIOUS things like LYING, STEALING, BACKCHATTING SWEARING - and there is the KEY!! they THINK about the CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS - and that then transpires into thier everyday life with regards to other people and yes authority because they know that someone in authority can PUNISH them. We also talk to the boys, we tell them right from wrong, we instill morals and standards! we teach them to tell the TRUTH because that is whats RIGHT in our house WE the ADULTS are in charge! and u know what kids flourish more under routine,guidance and boundaries than airy fairy do what u want techniques


I don't really want to get sucked into the "children" part of this debate, as this is a pet forum, but I can't help agree with this post....and as I stated in a much more previous post on this thread this approach also works for your dog.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Savahl said:


> Have to agree to disagree then. My dog is very smart, he is well trained, does what i expect of him etc etc, but i dont think he is capable of making the conscious decision of "Im supposed to do A but instead i will do B" in the same way a 10yo child will. You dont have to agree with me, it is just what i believe.


Thanks Savahl, I will disagree, my dog too is well trained 99% of the time, but no dog is perfect and every-so-often he gets that cheeky glint in his eye and I know we are in for some fun! (note: i use the term "fun" loosely)


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Also, the look of guilt people talk about when they say the dogs knows they have done wrong *I believe *to be a reaction to their owners obvious disaproval - no matter how subtle these signs are. It is not guilt, it is appeasing signals.

I emphasise the part where i state this to be my own beliefs because i know you will disagree, and it is not something we will probably ever agree on.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Kurlach said:


> My own thoughts on this, for what it's worth are..
> 
> We teach children that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason, we teach children that violence is bad, and that fighting is wrong. So how can we use violence (that's what hitting a child is, however you dress it up) to discipline a child, and then wag a finger at them when they get to 12 and hit another child in the school playground?
> 
> Ultimately, all hitting a child does is teach it one thing - a greater force is always correct. If you can beat someone, tap, hit, whack, whatever, then that person is right. Is that the lesson we want to teach children? I don't believe it's right to hit animals either. I was never touched as a child, and I've never had a problem. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to discipline by using force, but I'm just saying that from my standpoint it's wrong, and it does not lead to a better society.


A lot of people have commented on how well this was put, and in an ideal world i agree this is how we should aspire to live, but we don't live in an ideal world, we live in the real world and sometimes we have to do things that are distasteful. That's life.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Savahl said:


> I emphasise the part where i state this to be my own beliefs because i know you will disagree, and it is not something we will probably ever agree on.


Please don't apologise for having a view, i like a good (civilised) debate as much as the next person! I won't take offense unless you start calling me names!


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

HighlandQuine said:


> Now that made me laugh!
> 
> Seriously though, I'm quite shocked at how a healthy debate degenerated so rapidly into such viciousness and I'm even more surprised at the lack of respect that shown towards people's views, especially by people who bang on about respect!
> 
> Ironic or what?


I completely agree.

Why a perfectly good debate should escalate into nastyness and personal attacks is beyond me


----------



## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

Nina said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> Why a perfectly good debate should escalate into nastyness and personal attacks is beyond me


And seems to happen more and more often  I honestly dont understand how/why it happens! Seems totally illogical, any point one is trying to make is totally discredited when they throw insults and mud slinging with it.

And yes, i did just use the pronoun "one" .... I feel all posh and such


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Savahl said:


> And seems to happen more and more often  I honestly dont understand how/why it happens! Seems totally illogical, any point one is trying to make is totally discredited when they throw insults and mud slinging with it.
> 
> And yes, i did just use the pronoun "one" .... I feel all posh and such


Its getting more like the classroom every day. Good job there are no rubbers to be thrown. OMG now that is violent


----------



## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

I do not smack the dogs and never will...I dont belive its a postive way of punishing a dog..They dont know the diffence between good and bad..or even know what there doing to be wrong..so thats our faults as an owner and something we would have to work towards by "traning" the dog..smacking in no way imo makes a dog reaslise what its doing is wrong.

I dont belive kids need a smack to know what there doing is wrong either..If i ever have kids (not keen on that idea ..) then i would at least hope they would respect me enough to listen to what i do/dont want them to do with out my having to get hands on with them...Smacking doesnt help a child realise what it has done is wrong imo...It might make the child think "opps best not do that again i got a smack last time" but thats because there worried about the smack not that they have learnt its a bad thing right ?

All that makes sense to me LOL but sorry if its a load of waffle to everyone else..and this is just how i see it..im not bad mouthing any one that does belive in smacking there children/dogs.


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

WOW that was a long if at times entertaining read, WHAT HAPPENED!!!! goodness me if we had the same opionion life would be very boring, 

I think if punishments for crime where PUNISHMENTS (not shouting) prision life should be short sharp shocks, not time in the lap of luxury, children learn from there peers exsample " yo boy don't worry my broth was in prision for nicking somfin he got his own room and a TV 3 square meals a day and loads and he didn't have to work or go to school" what does that tell you, no punishment to fit the crime, 

But if a child knows that there is a consiquence for a wrong they understand quicker, I am not talking about smacking,,, I was given a smack as a kid, even from the village bobby,, sshh only when caught! My children lose something they like, before i go to a smack, I hate smacking it makes me feel bad, I would rather outwitt them by teaching them if they are naughty they be bored out there tiny minds.

Failing that a roll of industrial duct tape works wonders:001_tt2:


----------



## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

The problem is that people put 'human' values on their pets too much...


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I have never smacked my daughter or any animal. And i won't! I was never smacked as a child (no not once!) 

I don't believe in smacking. But thats my opinion!


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Acacia86 said:


> I have never smacked my daughter or any animal. And i won't! I was never smacked as a child (no not once!)
> 
> I don't believe in smacking. But thats my opinion!


Its an opinion thats short and to the point and one made without attacks on those that do smack. Well done


----------

