# Pulling springer help please...



## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi guys, hope you're all well 

It's been a while since i've asked for your advice as Lucy has been super! She's now 10 months old, an absolute joy to be around and we've tackled nearly all the little problems we've had come our way but one thing we still haven't mastered is... the pulling!

Now I know this is a very common problem with springers and i've been told by many springer owners that they never learn completely but I really am quite desperate now as my arms can't take much more and our friends and family don't like walking her.

We have tried all the training suggested to us, we've walked slowly, stopped when she's pulled, turned around when she's pulled, gone back when she's pulled and used loads of yummy treats in the process but she never seems to learn, I don't even think she's improved. 

She will ALWAYS pull like a steam train TO the park, but walk beautifully on our way home, so I know she can walk nicely, she just can't contain her excitement and energy on our way there.

It's become quite clear to us that she's never going to learn doing any of the above training so i'm starting to consider halti collars or harnesses (which i've never been keen on if i'm honest).

Has anyone used these with springers and if yes what did you use?
Is it worth trying or should I just face the facts that she's never going to learn and live with it?

Thank you muchly in advance 

Chelle and Lucy x


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

springer-lucy said:


> She will ALWAYS pull like a steam train TO the park, but walk beautifully on our way home, so I know she can walk nicely, she just can't contain her excitement and energy on our way there.
> 
> It's become quite clear to us that she's never going to learn doing any of the above training so i'm starting to consider halti collars or harnesses (which i've never been keen on if i'm honest).
> 
> ...


10 months old, only pulling on way to the park, you deserve a gold star (or glass of wine or something) ! 

What makes you say she's not learnt doing your training, when she "walks beautifully on our way home"? To me you know the reason, you said "she just can't contain her excitement and energy on our way there".

You shouldn't feel like you & your dog are failing, it'd be awful if your dog didn't like going to the park. I've walked 2 13 month old dogs recently, and I see much improvement in last 5 months, they walk beautifully alongside cycles or on foot. Neither despite lots of exuberance in past, now are head cases on approach to the awesome park they love and live for.

Personally if it's a problem deterring walkers, I'd find a comfortable anti-pull harness front clip, or like the Halti double clip which means the dog turns if it tries to drive forward, a good safety feature and comfortable to wear.


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## lexie2010 (Jun 7, 2010)

hi, 
as the usual stuff hasnt worked i would try a harness if i were you. i have a beagle and i was using a halti on her since sept 2010 as she would pull to try to find the most tempting litter/fox poo to eat-shes a classy girl! the halti i have to say works very well on her put despite doing all the right things she would still rub her paws at it or rub her face on your leg when wearing it ever so often. last week i got a dogmatic to see if it would be any better and i am getting the same results with it (i can walk with lead in one finger) but she still rubs a little with it on. the other option is a canny collar which i havent tried.
but go for a head collar not a body harness as they can just pull with all their shoulder strength in a body harness whereas the head collar teaches them not to pull as it is counter productive.
hope that helps a bit


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

Hehe thank you RobD-BCactive, we have worked very hard and you're right, she obviously has learned something otherwise she would be pulling on the way home too, maybe I don't give her enough credit, she has done really well.

Also thank you lexie2010, I'm not keen on the idea of the head collar but if it's what will work best then i'll certainly give it a bash. 

Would be lovely if we could get her walking a bit better before August as she'll be going to stay with my family for a few days while we're away and they're not confident with dogs as it is, let a lone one that's going to take them for a walk!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

springer-lucy said:


> Also thank you lexie2010, I'm not keen on the idea of the head collar but if it's what will work best then i'll certainly give it a bash


As you have not mentioned any dog aggression and have mentioned casual walkers, I would try anti-pull harness first *they do prevent pulling!*
To see the principal how front clip is intended to act this sales pitch video demonstrates - Basic Bad 2 Good on Vimeo unfortunately without showing dog reacting to anything, so you don't see the GR getting out of line and turning towards handler.

Without habituation, your dog is likely to try to rub off a head collar, and with control of head comes responsibility.

There's a long and at times argumentative thread that discusses pro/cons of various walking systems http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/150472-self-correction-collar.html if you have stamina for it. I hope that discussion does not get rehashed here.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

lexie2010 said:


> hi,
> as the usual stuff hasnt worked i would try a harness if i were you. i have a beagle and i was using a halti on her since sept 2010 as she would pull to try to find the most tempting litter/fox poo to eat-shes a classy girl! the halti i have to say works very well on her put despite doing all the right things she would still rub her paws at it or rub her face on your leg when wearing it ever so often. last week i got a dogmatic to see if it would be any better and i am getting the same results with it (i can walk with lead in one finger) but she still rubs a little with it on. the other option is a canny collar which i havent tried.
> but go for a head collar not a body harness as they can just pull with all their shoulder strength in a body harness whereas the head collar teaches them not to pull as it is counter productive.
> hope that helps a bit


Not necessarily.

I have a harness with a front clip and also practice 'walking in balance' - there is a video on it on Xtradog's website. Essentially, each time the dog pulls, you meet the pressure then 'melt away' - the lady at the TTouch workshop called it an 'ask' and a 'response' and it really, really works to get the dog just walking nicely by your side.

Like you, Lucy, I have a dog that walks really nicely on a flat collar and loose lead for the majority of the time but will pull if something is intensely exciting.

I have a Dogmatic for 'urban' type situations like shops or crowded places where there may be food etc at tempting head height and a harness for situations where he may not be able to go off lead for a whole walk but may still encounter exciting things like birds.

It sounds like a lot of kit, but I like to tailor equipment to suit the situation. Following my TTouch workshop I use the harness for all walks bar very short A-B trips, say from the car into work. It does not mean that LLW training must suffer; it can be continued just the same.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Jacks the same age and exactly the same.. Walks beautifully on the way home :lol:
I have a halti harness and the one time ive used it he was much better.
Dont know if anyone can answer this tho (without high jacking the thread) As hes a little Dare devil when off lead. Jumping up and down and over everything is it safe to leave the harness on? I worry it may get caught hence it being used once


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Any restraint or attachment on dog needs to be fitted correctly, even flat collars. I did use a Halti double clip harness, and as customer reviews suggested the main drawback was tendency of adjustment straps to loosen. I have met ppl who's old dogs were killed impaling themselves on fallen tree branches in a wood, so there's risks even without any such system. Even a collar can get caught on a fence if the dog miscalculates a jump over it.

As Dogless points out, as systems have different pros/cons, their suitability varies. A rear clip harness I've used recently (not on my dog but a non-puller) is very convenient with rear and side clip attachments for paths, or open land. But is not the safest design for a dog allowed to roam in woodland. Other harnesses I've seen have less to catch.

I have seen dogs allowed to run free in head collars, I wonder now how safe that practice is.

I guess it's an argument for systems that is easy to take on/off when needed and that the dog likes to wear. The harness I tried, was much appreciated by the dog involved, which was used to stressing against a flat collar, so the low force anti-pull walk went down very well, with dog coming on sight of harness.

An advantage of a top clip, is that any line is carried clear of legs, so tends to avoid the entanglement which you have with traditional system, when the dog stops over a slack lead.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I suppose as he walks well on the way back i could take it off and then walk him back on his collar 
Thanks


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

We have a similar problem with our springer pulling despite being well trained and obedient in most other areas. We bought a Halti head collar (size 2) last weekend and it worked instantly. He is now a pleasure to walk !!!!


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Springer-lucy,
We also have a 10 month old springer & exactly the same problem. We have tried nearly all devices & techniques known to man & she still pulls!! She spends a lot of time trying to rub it off her face which just adds another problem to the mix. She has had me in tears on some walks as i feel like i'm failing her, so don't think it's just you that feels like this. 

Some days she isn't too bad but other days she just pulls like a train & it's painful for me & sometimes embarrassing when other dog owners have their dogs trotting along side them happily.

We had a trainer come to assess her 2 weeks ago & she suggested continuing to use The Gentle Leader-but we've tried it before & it just rubs her eye when she pulls & gets us nowhere.

We have considered yet another device-The Gencon-think i saw Victoria Stilwell using it on 'it's me or the dog' but if that doesn't work then who knows what we'll do??


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

smudgebiscuit said:


> She spends a lot of time trying to rub it off her face which just adds another problem to the mix. She has had me in tears on some walks as i feel like i'm failing her, so don't think it's just you that feels like this.
> 
> Some days she isn't too bad but other days she just pulls like a train & it's painful for me & sometimes embarrassing when other dog owners have their dogs trotting along side them happily.
> 
> We had a trainer come to assess her 2 weeks ago & she suggested continuing to use The Gentle Leader-but we've tried it before & it just rubs her eye when she pulls & gets us nowhere


Hence habituation for head collar so hopefully it doesn't start messing with it, but accepts it as part of walkies. I've seen VS suggest Head Collars in her shows, and promptly remove them when they've become over distracting to the dog. New information changes her mind.

Some days good, some bad, may very well due to how aroused/calm she is. I really would not worry about what other owners are thinking about yr spaniel, we've all been through issues training young dogs. There's always something to work on say barking, or scrounging from strangers.


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## edidasa (May 7, 2011)

premier no-pull harness. ? tried that?


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## Statler (Jan 3, 2011)

i came across this video on youtube yesterday and explains what i do and why it only takes 10 mins to get a dog paying attention and heeling. from the narrative the lady has only had the dog a short while and is struggling to walk the dog.

Chris Burns is a respected gundog trainer who writes a training column in a shooting magazine. its obvious that its his first lesson with the dog but very quickly gets the dog attention. the dog obviously knows what heel is but chooses to take no notice. a couple of minutes in the dogs attention starts to wonder.

this process needs to be reinforced daily till it becomes habitual but with patience its simple

flak jacket at the ready.

notice the dogs tail wagging at the end and is happy to walk at heel off lead even tho he doesnt know the handler

YouTube - Training a dog ( English Spring Spaniel ) to walk to heel


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## poppydog1 (Mar 26, 2010)

Hi we had a springer who pulled like a train we bought a canny collar great fit she wasnt keen to start with but soon got used to it and it helped alot hope this helps


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## vicki.burns (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi there, we have a similar issue with our little one, he's 4 months now and was awful when we had his lead on him collar... awful is an understatement, he pulled EVERYWHERE and constantly chocked himself.

We now use a 'Sporn' training harness... over the head, put his legs through and tighten up. It's brilliant and works brilliantly. When he starts to pull which is very rarely now, pull him back and tell him to heel. When you pull back it all tightens under his arms and across his chest (basically disabiling) and he's as good as gold again.

No longer hear that horrible heavy breathing and coughing chocking noise!!

I got it from a local pet shop called Kennelgate, I know there are a few of them across the country so there might be one near you if not Sporn have a website...

By the way your dog looks gorgeous lol!

The Sporn Company
Kennelgate Pet Food Store Locator, Address Details, Interactive Map & Directions

Hope this helps

(If you are Leeds, I think your closest one is their Wakefield Store)


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

vicki.burns said:


> Hi there, we have a similar issue with our little one, he's 4 months now and was awful when we had his lead on him collar... awful is an understatement, he pulled EVERYWHERE and constantly chocked himself.
> 
> We now use a 'Sporn' training harness... over the head, put his legs through and tighten up. It's brilliant and works brilliantly. When he starts to pull which is very rarely now, pull him back and tell him to heel. When you pull back it all tightens under his arms and across his chest (basically disabiling) and he's as good as gold again.
> 
> ...


The caution I would have here is that the harness works by tightening and your pup's skeleton is still growing and developing which would concern me.


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

Thank you so much for all your kind advice, I think we might try the halti head collar first and see how we get on as lots of you have been successful with it. 
It's going to break my heart putting it on her lovely little face though 

Can you change back to regular collar/harness after a while of using halti's? 
Do they learn not to pull this way or is it just dealing with the problem as it happens?


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## vicki.burns (Apr 13, 2011)

Dogless said:


> The caution I would have here is that the harness works by tightening and your pup's skeleton is still growing and developing which would concern me.


Was advised at our puppy class by a professional dog trainer, so so far so good and he hardly pulls at all now so we rarely have to tighten it around him. Seems to have worked and done what it says on the tin though.


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## vicki.burns (Apr 13, 2011)

springer-lucy said:


> Thank you so much for all your kind advice, I think we might try the halti head collar first and see how we get on as lots of you have been successful with it.
> It's going to break my heart putting it on her lovely little face though
> 
> Can you change back to regular collar/harness after a while of using halti's?
> Do they learn not to pull this way or is it just dealing with the problem as it happens?


Our trainer said that when he gets really good with the harness we should be able to go back to the collar


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I used a Halti harness on a Dalmatian... When I look after my sister ESS I use it on him and he is perfect. For my sister he pulls like a train.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Statler said:


> i came across this video on youtube yesterday and explains what i do and why it only takes 10 mins to get a dog paying attention and heeling


That kind of non-busy path, especially with hedges is my favourite for low distraction positive reinforcement heeling. It's a lot tougher initially on most streets with cars, trucks & buses, take away remnants, groups of ppl, push chairs etc.
The food reward with dogs that's walked for a bit already, gets & holds attention from the off especially well with low distractions.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

springer-lucy said:


> Thank you so much for all your kind advice, I think we might try the halti head collar first and see how we get on as lots of you have been successful with it


I'm just a touch worried about potential confusion. It's easy to confuse, because ppl talk about "the Halti", but they make several different products.

Many were recommending a Halti Double Clip harness and had success with that, as I understood it. I do no think the Halti Head Collar is the preferred option, amongst head collar users when they're discussed on forum, as they're not particularly comfortable!

What ever product you consider buying, I'd check out customer reviews first, the ones I found *were* accurate about drawbacks as well as the good features.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

vicki.burns said:


> Was advised at our puppy class by a professional dog trainer, so so far so good and he hardly pulls at all now so we rarely have to tighten it around him. Seems to have worked and done what it says on the tin though.


Fair one I suppose and I'm glad it has worked for you; I wasn't trying to criticise your method - just wanted to point out something I had been told 'just in case'. I was specifically advised against but it was from a professional that had a large breed like I have so that may be the difference here.

I must admit that the first puppy class I attended with a 'professional dog trainer' I haven't been back to as she recommended dreadful food, scruffing your dog and couldn't control the class, but that is a whole new topic . Glad you have found a good one!!


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks again everyone! 

On our way back from the park today, we stopped by Pets At Home and a really helpful shop assistant offered to help us choose and try a few on Lucy. She really seemed to know what she was talking about which was great and while armed with the smelliest of treats we tried various things on.

She also strongly recommended a head collar so we tried the 'halti' head collar which Lucy hated, but she really seemed to take to a similar Pets At Home 'Control Head Collar' which basically does the same thing but is a little bit thicker, padded and more comfortable for her. Instantly we all agreed it was the best we'd tried and Lucy seemed happy so we were showed how to use it, given a safety talk and now feeling pretty good about it. 

We're going to take a few days to allow Lucy to get comfortable with it before trying it out properly but will keep you posted on how we get on. Fingers crossed we'll see results!

P.S: Here's Lucy modeling her new accessory...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

And what a pretty model she is :001_wub:

Glad that you have decided what to do, good luck!


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

I like to walk ours on rope slip leads, the gundog type, now when they pull i just get a loop of loose lead from under their chin and twist it so the whole lead makes a figure of eight, and put it over their nose, then when they calm down i take it off and it is a normal slip lead again! 

(we got the idea from the gencon lead as we have one of these for Logan and it woked a dream then when he had calmed down we felt bad that he still had the nose band bit on and to be honest people see a GSD coming with the noseband on and give him a wide berth too, which we didn't like!)


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

Here is a picture of Blade sporting his slip lead 'halti' and my 12 year old is then able to walk him going onto a busy beach and rather excited as you can see.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Personally I wouldn`t use any headcollar or harness on a small dog. There is a really simple method of training a dog not to pull. It just takes time and patience. 
Walk with a loose lead. When the dog moves ahead of you, change direction (walk another way). Continue to change direction till the dog is following you then praise or reward and go the way you wanted to. 
Repeat. 
It does mean you take ages to get to the park for the first few days but eventually the dog learns. 
No fuss, no stress, no harness required. :001_smile:


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Personally I wouldn`t use any headcollar or harness on a small dog. There is a really simple method of training a dog not to pull. It just takes time and patience.
> Walk with a loose lead. When the dog moves ahead of you, change direction (walk another way). Continue to change direction till the dog is following you then praise or reward and go the way you wanted to.
> Repeat.
> It does mean you take ages to get to the park for the first few days but eventually the dog learns.
> No fuss, no stress, no harness required. :001_smile:


Thanks ClaireandDaisy, we didn't want to use a headcollar or harness either but as I mentioned previously we have spent several months trying various methods, including the method you have suggested and although she now understands what 'heel' means she just cant contain her excitement on our way to our walk, hence why we've been looking into harnesses and headcollars.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

springer-lucy said:


> Thanks ClaireandDaisy, we didn't want to use a headcollar or harness either but as I mentioned previously we have spent several months trying various methods, including the method you have suggested and although she now understands what 'heel' means she just cant contain her excitement on our way to our walk, hence why we've been looking into harnesses and headcollars.


Thats exactly the same as my Springer. She will heel perfectly at training and in a field but getting to a walk is a nightmare. Shes 17 months old now and I know where I went wrong but cant put it right. When I stop, she will jump back and put herself in position-then lunges off again I've been trying now for 12 months. I'm pleased you've found something to manange it.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Lucy looks beautiful in her new headcollar-fingers crossed for you....let us know how you get on 

We are considering The Gencon Headcollar-we've pretty much tried everything else so why not!!!!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

The reason why some management makes sense for very many people, is that the dog's training is going out the window, on that exciting walk to the park, or an area with large distractions.

Not everyone is an expert at managing a dog, and I'd put my dog in a comfy harness, rather than say it "should be like this" and have my training work undone by a casual walker, who just won't imitate what's shown. Fortunately we've not had to do that, and all the "extras" have commented favourably, finding our anti-pull suggestions working solutions.

If everyone had trustworthy expert handlers walking their dogs all the time, no dog would be pulling!


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

kat&molly said:


> When I stop, she will jump back and put herself in position-then lunges off again


Hehe this is exactly what Lucy does. She will jump back and look at me as if to say 'It wasn't me!' then when I take a step she lunges off again, so she knows she shouldn't be pulling, she just cant help herself.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, as I said - takes time. I still occasionally have to remind my dogs who goes first by swerving round lamp-posts at the start of each walk. 
Having retrained a dog who was hunted on a harness, I know dogs can learn to pull against anything.:001_smile:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Claire, what do you do, if you have to be away and have say a non-dog savvy relative or friend take the dog out mostly for a couple of weeks?

For the possibly excited Springer's at start of walkies, tripod's article might help - New Leash on Life - calm for walkies


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

Thought i'd update you on our progress...
Lucy is now quite comfortable with her new head collar and we've been using it for the past few days. The first day she walked like a dream, it was almost like she just clicked and knew exactly what I wanted her to do, it was amazing. Since then though, she has started to chance it and does still pull a little but nowhere near as hard as she used to and she's much much easier to control so I just wanted to say thank you for all your advice and recommendations. I think we're on to a winner


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

vicki.burns said:


> Hi there, we have a similar issue with our little one, he's 4 months now and was awful when we had his lead on him collar... awful is an understatement, he pulled EVERYWHERE and constantly chocked himself.
> We now use a 'Sporn' training harness... over the head, put his legs through and tighten up.
> I got it from a local pet shop called Kennelgate


We have had massive issues with pulling. I've stood and cried in the woods.  Our stupid fault for getting two and not always walking them apart.

We have tried the basic halti, which does awful things to their eyes.

We tried the walk the other way but no joy (consistently for maybe 6 weeks).

We tried treats and pups being walked apart.

We tried the Easy walk harness which is ok on street walks, useless in thE field.

We tried the canny collar, which was the most successful But Zak gets very distressed and cries and drops to the ground to rub it off and protest and it leaves nasty marks on him. 

Finally, the OH came home with a Company of Animals tighten up harness as described above. I was hugely sceptical, but having used it on both pups today, I am in heaven. It might be the first time I've enjoyed walking them since they were tiny! They're 11 months, probably fully grown at 21kg each. I had a nice walk with Zak for the first time in months! No protests, no crying, no choking, no marks on him and every time it tightened, he stopped pulling. I'm honestly happy as a pig in s**t! I'd now be confident to take them both out together. They're allowed a longer lead once at the field and training continues with recall. OH lost Bear for 20 minutes this week. I would've had a breakdown!


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

springer-lucy said:


> Thought i'd update you on our progress...
> Lucy is now quite comfortable with her new head collar and we've been using it for the past few days. The first day she walked like a dream, it was almost like she just clicked and knew exactly what I wanted her to do, it was amazing. Since then though, she has started to chance it and does still pull a little but nowhere near as hard as she used to and she's much much easier to control so I just wanted to say thank you for all your advice and recommendations. I think we're on to a winner


That's great to hear! we still use the Halti Headcollar on our Springer, but have been told at a couple of our local pet shops that it can just be used as a training aid and hopefully shouldn't need to keep it on when he has learnt not to pull, so try treating her when she walks nicely at your side and not when she tries pulling. I tried taking Yogi on his normal collar and lead a couple of times and although he pulled a couple of times he was so much better. When he did pull he turned back and corrected himself as if he knew he shouldn't be doing it! I'm hoping to do away with the head collar when he has learnt to walk properly. He is so much better now !


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

springer-lucy said:


> Hehe this is exactly what Lucy does. She will jump back and look at me as if to say 'It wasn't me!' then when I take a step she lunges off again, so she knows she shouldn't be pulling, she just cant help herself.


Typical springer by the sounds of it, sorry dont feel qualified to give advice been as i have an 10 yr old that still pulls, in fact they all do and like many walk better on the way back, just cant wait to get out there and off the lead.


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Typical springer by the sounds of it, sorry dont feel qualified to give advice been as i have an 10 yr old that still pulls, in fact they all do and like many walk better on the way back, just cant wait to get out there and off the lead.


Not typical in my world. I know about 12 springers and they all walk on LLW and off lead with out any problems and they've never been near a head collar. 
it all comes down to patience, consistency and method. The best method is the double flick method. Read Lez Graham - The Pet Gundog she explains it in her book. Along with walking in a anti clock wise circle (if the dog is on the left) and turning sharp left, so the dog has to get out of your way. be unpredictable in your sharp turns, The dog soon learns that it has to keep an eye on you and keep out of your way. Turn left sharply as soon as the nose goes past your knee. Dogs think in pictures and th epicture you are teaching the dog is the picture of your left leg, hip and side of body. DO not walk in a straight line for more than 10 yards. Be prepared to do this for 5 - 10 minutes solid. It's a long time and the dog will steadily fall into posiiton. Do it as many times a day as you can and do it for as many weeks as is neccessary. Once you cracked it, keep on doing it weekly and when ever the dog even thnks about moving forward.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

grandad said:


> DO not walk in a straight line for more than 10 yards. Be prepared to do this for 5 - 10 minutes solid. It's a long time and the dog will steadily fall into posiiton. Do it as many times a day as you can and do it for as many weeks as is neccessary. Once you cracked it, keep on doing it weekly and when ever the dog even thnks about moving forward.


Warm up for dog training in the pub? :ihih:


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