# I make my cat sick!



## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Now before I start I should say that my cat loves me and trusts me and looks to me for guidance. He sticks to my suggested routes when out on his own, hopping gateways as his main route, using pavements when necessary, and avoiding roads at all times. When I drop him off at school (my neighbours garden about 30 metres away from home) he spends ages saying his farewells, running along the wall then back again for (another) last stroke, which he repeats until something distracts him. Then he'll jump into the garden below where he'll play and sleep all day until I call him home in the evenings.
When it's time to come home, I go around the corner to the garden and give him a call. He pops out of his hiding place, jumps up onto the garden wall, runs along to where it meets a second A shaped wall then straddles across that to the first gateway, that of a corner house. There he'll jump down and go around the corner via the gateway and meet me on the other side, along the gateway walls to my house and in.
But once inside he'll ignore me, listening only when I mention 'food' or 'fish' or 'chicken' or 'treats'.
Recently, he's taken to showing me that he knows the difference between roads and pavements and gateways, and knows where he's safe or not.
Sometimes on our way to or from 'school' he'll run onto the pavement at various spots he once considered dangerous (due to buses approaching from the opposite direction) and roll over onto his back for a stroke, showing me he feels safe there. He'll do the same thing on the way home, and again once he gets to the front door. But once inside that door, he's a different cat.
He hates humans, absolutely hates them, and if one should dare to brush past him, he'll express 'ugh, a human touched me'!
I'm the only one who can pick him up and stroke him, but only for a moment or two. Whenever I stroke him, he gets up and walks away. He always finds different spots in the flat to sleep in, and always looks so lonely.
I notice that whenever I stroke him, his stomach seems to go through involuntary spasms, like he's about to be sick.
At one time, he took to sleeping on my bed at nights, I felt honoured but that wasn't to last. He would hop onto the bed where he would practice his bread making skills, kneading the blankets whilst purring all the time. I'd stroke his head and ears and he'd grab my finger, lick it, then push it onto and over his head, thereby gaining a wash whilst being pampered.
But after a week or so, he stopped sleeping on my bed, and now avoids it as if it were no cats land. Sometimes i pretend to be asleep while spying on him. He often goes to his cat stand next to my bed and near the window, but gently creeps forward watching me all the time. When he thinks it's safe, he makes a sudden jump onto the stand where he feels proud of himself for escaping the attention of his dreadful human owner.
What can i do to make my cat more friendly, and how can I stop nauseating him?


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Wow that's one intelligent cat


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Your cat sounds like a cat who likes his own company a lot. Some cats are like that - a little human company goes a long way with them.  

But cats can become more reserved, especially once they are mature adults, if they get used to spending a lot of time alone, i.e. their human companion(s) is out all day, 5 days a week, and they have no feline companion. It is the cat's 
way of coping by becoming more introverted.

The fact that he makes a fuss of you in the street when you come home shows he is pleased to see you, and glad to come home with you. But after he gets home it sounds as though he is happiest with any physical contact being on his own terms entirely. This is a trait that some cats have. I had a cat like this too in the past. 

My suggestion would be you allow him to have things on his terms, and that you stop initiating physical contact. Don't ignore him though, chat to him, greet him in passing etc, but don't stroke him or pick him up unless he comes to you.

You may find in time he will feel more comfortable again and comes back to sleeping on your bed. You may even be able to give him a little unsolicited stroke occasionally. 

Incidentally, I am a bit curious as to why he spends all day in a neighbour's garden rather than snoozing in his own home whilst you are gone? Is it his choice?


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi Chilliminx, thanks for your reply. I live in a basement flat and there are two other flats here. My neighbour who has the garden flat is always up late and keeps odd hours, so I have to take my cat to the garden the long way, i.e. out onto the street, along for about 15 metres then round the corner another 15 metres. He loves going out and never does poos or pees in the house.
He asks me to go out, and doesn't stop until he gets his way! He's very head strong.
My neighbour is the proud owner of my cats sister, a totally different character altogether. She's laid back, doesn't go out much, spends all her time in my flat whenever she can.
What concerns me about my cat is the physical reaction he has to humans.
There are many times when he attempts to approach me, but then the stomach churning starts and he runs away.
As I was writing the first part of this post this morning, my cat was sitting patiently by the door. He knows he can't go out until at least 6.30 am because of the foxes, so just sat patiently. After my post I went over to give him a stroke, and at first he responded by purring, then suddenly he was wrenching violently, attempting to be sick.
It seems that he keeps his distance not by choice but because of a physical reaction.

I've also noticed that vomiting seems to have some kind of significance to him. For example, when I first got him he was very difficult to get on with. It was impossible to pick him up or even stroke him, I just had to leave him alone. But one day he started vomiting then watched me clear it up. Immediately afterwards, he was all over me, and that seemed to break the ice with him.
Now he's never shown any kind of jealousy or need to dominate his sister, in fact she would dominate him. If I fed them both from the same plate, she would put her paw in his way and make almost growling noises to warn him off, and he would walk away to let her eat first.
But just a few weeks ago she was a bit ill and after eating at mine, started vomiting.
My cat watched uninterested until he saw me clean it up, and that sent him into a rage with her. He chased her round the flat angrily and she hid under the sofa. Since then, he attacks her if she tries to use the litter tray and stops her from eating until he's eaten first.
I should also mention that he has a third sibbling who stayed with his former owner. The third one had been very ill and that included vomiting. Not sure if that has anything to do with anything really!
Both cats are now 10 months old and have never been without human company. My neighbour is disabled, so before I trained my cat how to stay safe in the streets he would look after him when I was out at work. But still mine just loves the outdoors.
I'm guessing that his reaction to me isn't really important, he loves coming home and is fairly understanding if I show him good reason why he can't go out, rain, fireworks, storms for example.
But I'm still concerned about his reaction because there are many occasions when he does try to force himself to approach me, but his stomach churning prevents him.
I wonder if anyone else has experienced anything like this?

ps: cookieandme
Not sure if my cats intelligent or not but he certainly gives neighbours and passers by something to laugh about when they see him doing his 'mission impossible' routine!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Cats can vomit due to severe/chronic anxiety, and it sounds as though this may be your cat's problem. It sounds as though it could have become a reflex action, which could happen if a behaviour becomes embedded. 

Do you know his history? 

I assume you've not had him since he was a baby, therefore he may have been badly treated before you adopted him, or perhaps he lived in house with small children who were allowed to pester him constantly. Whatever the cause it seems to have had a lasting effect on him, which is very sad, poor little fellow. 

I'd like to know a bit more before I comment further so could you tell me 
about your situation :

e.g. is he the only pet in your home?
are there other humans in your home apart from you ?
do you have many visitors?

Could you also tell me what you are feeding him? There are cases of cats vomiting frequently due to food allergies/intolerances, and it could be he is worse when he gets anxious. i.e. lets say he might feel nauseous due to dietary issues, but anxiety triggers the vomiting. 

The territorial behaviour you've observed towards his sister when she tried/used his litter tray etc, sounds normal to me. A cat who is the only cat in the household will get very protective of his territory and his "possessions" even towards a sibling, if he doesn't live with the sibling 24/7. 

Cats can also suffer badly from anxiety if they don't feel 100% well. It's because it makes them feel vulnerable not to be wholely in control of themselves and their environment. If you have not seen any signs at all of physical ill health, then again that might suggest a food allergy problem (as it would not be visible i.e.)

I assume he has been neutered btw?


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi Chilliminx, thanks for a well thought out answer. Sorry for making the posts long but I wanted to give as much as his character as i could.
When I first went to see him, i'd gone to see two kittens as my neighbour wanted one as well. I share my corridor with two other flats, so in all there's three of us living here.
His former owner is a woman in her 50's who had found the mother in her garden heavily pregnant and obviously feral. She brought it in and looked after it throughout the pregnancy and for three months after the birth. One of the kittens became very ill although I'm not sure what the problem was.
From the other two, I first picked up and stroked the female. She was very comical in looks and nature, and very friendly and let me hold her. Then I picked up the other one, but he wriggled and clawed and ran away, even his owner was shocked by his reaction.
She seemed to hold back on something regarding these two kittens, and was adamant that they both went to the same household, she said something that gave me the impression these two had been given away but had been brought back to her, but she avoided the subject when I brought it up again.

As for food...now this has been a problem. The previous owner fed them on dry food and roast chicken. When I got them, the female would eat anything but the male wouldn't eat at all. After 3 days I gave him some chicken and it's the first time he ate.
Since then, I've got him on white fish, chicken and dry food, he absolutely will not eat wet cat food.
He's come a long way since I got him, at first he hid under the sofa for three days! Now, he is very polite, very gentle and very sociable as long as you don't touch him. He's also very headstrong, but understanding if you don't let him have his own way.

His sister loves to spend her days in my flat and runs and hides when her owner comes to collect him, but she has diaorhea problems. She poos frequently throughout the day and was recently seen by a vet who gave her treatment, but it's come back again.
My cat never bothered about being territorial until he saw me clean her vomit, he glared at me then attacked her, chasing her under the sofa.
Both cats have been neutered.

His general health is good, he really is a lovely cat and seems to try to fight his inhibition, but it always gets the better of him.
I had an 'arguement' with him when he was about 5 months old. It started one night when I picked him up to stroke him and he ran away rudely, so i thought that was enough. This cat had been simply a burden rather than a pleasure and I thought things have to change.
So, next morning I ignored him. I got up, made my breakfast and didn't acknowledge him at all. Then I went to speak to my neighbour, complaining about my cats behaviour.
My cat came in quietly and sat some distance from me with his back to me, but made sure he was visible. I continued to ignore him, and every time he thought I wasn't looking, he would hop a little bit nearer to me.
Eventually, I gave in and fed him and gave him a little stroke on the head.
He ran out to play all day, but later that evening he pretended to be investigating something on the sofa I sat on, then jumped onto it and slowly backed on to my lap where he eventually sat for a good hour, the first time he'd ever approached me.
So I came to realise it's a psychological thing with him, but it's sad the amount of times he attempts to approach me, then the churning starts and he backs away again.

Wow, I've written a novel but hope I've given enough of his charachter. I'd love to find a way forward for him so any advice would be helpful, thanks.


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

Have you asked a vet about it? He sounds like a lovely cat and maybe he'd like a bit more human contact but you seem to be describing a situation in which he can't have the contact he wants because he has an unwanted physical reaction. 

I don't know much about cat medication, but if there's such a thing as an anti-emetic or anti-nausea medication for cats, then perhaps he'd be able to approach you more comfortably, and if it's a conditioned response, perhaps anti-nausea medication for a few weeks would enable him to break the habit/association/conditioning.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

The previous poster makes a good point - have you discussed your cat's problem with your vet? Your vet may even suggest a referral to a cat behavioural specialist. There are some very good ones around.....

If the nausea/vomiting is in fact a conditioned response due to your cat's previous bad experience with humans, I agree that possibly an anti-emetic drug, as the previous poster suggests, may help to break the cycle. But personally I think your vet may want your cat to be assessed by a cat behaviour therapist before they would agree to prescribe an anti-emetic for a psychological complaint. 

Aside from the above, you have in fact, from your own experimenting, found the solution to improving your relationship with him And that is by you not making any eye contact or approaching him. You have found when you do this, he comes to you, and interacts with you in a friendly manner. I promise you he is not being contrary-minded when he does this, it is simply he is being allowed to interact with you on his own terms, feels comfortable with that, and so he is not fearful, thus he does not vomit. Voila!  

As you say, he has come a long way since you first got him, and this is good to hear. Well done for being patient, and understanding of his needs. 

The degree of trust cats have for their human companions is directly related to how much self confidence they have. The more confident a cat is with humans, the more likely he is to tolerate or enjoy being handled, or stroked at the human's whim. A cat who is not very self-confident is not going to always feel comfortable with humans invading his personal space whenever they choose. Hence with your cat, when you back off, he feels much more at ease, and he comes to you. 

A friend of mine once adopted a young adult female cat who was quite nervous and distrustful. My friend found if she made ANY eye contact at all with the cat, she (the cat) got very frightened and cowered in fear, or ran and hid under the table. (In *cat language* direct eye contact from another being can be interpreted as a potentially aggressive challenge.) 

My friend got accustomed to never making eye contact with the cat, and the cat in turn gradually began to feel more relaxed. In time she started to approach my friend affectionately, asking for strokes. This is how the relationship remained throughout the cat's life. It was a satisfactory solution for both parties.

As to why your cat is so fearful and anxious - it may be due to his mother being feral. Even though the mum and her kits were taken in and looked after by a human, perhaps mum cat's own lack of social skills with humans meant she was unable to pass on all the required skills to her kittens. So your cat learned some social skills, but not all. 

As your cat is still quite young, and you know his history, it seems this is the most likely explanation for his lack of self confidence. 

With regard to his food it's a pity he won't eat wet (canned) food, as it would be much healthier for him than dry food. White fish and cooked chicken are not complete foods, so should not make up more than 20% of his diet, unless you are adding a supplement to them such as Felini Complete. If you don't add this supplement to home cooked food he is likely to get short of essential nutrients which could adversely effect his mental health as well as physical health.

As he is still only a kitten, it is much easier to wean him off the dry food than wait until he is an adult. My two 7 mth old kittens came to me addicted to dry food, but I have almost weaned them off completely by now, slowly and persistently. 

I know how harmful dry food can be, causing chronic low level dehydration leading to bladder and kidney problems, as well as constipation. Even chronic gum disease (gingivitis) is now being linked with highly processed cat foods especially dry food. 

Hopefully you are feeding one of the better quality grain free dry food such as Orijen, Acana, (both from Zooplus) or Applaws, ([email protected]) or one with rice such as Wainwrights ([email protected]).

I would also try to counteract the risk of chronic dehydration by making home made chicken or beef broths and giving a warmed saucerful twice a day. The broths can be frozen in ice cube trays and defrosted as required.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks to Aeschylus for that answer, I somehow never thought about speaking to my vet.....don't understand myself sometimes!
Chilliminx, you make some interesting points. Early this morning I felt him jump gently onto my bed, then he slowly, slowly crept nearer to me....while all the time I pretended to be asleep. He then fell asleep right next to my head. After about 20 minutes, I 'woke up' and gave him a pat but he instantly jumped off the bed!
Also, this trust thing...you're right about that. I've noticed over the last few days I've started to let him go out on his own. I'm quite confident that he keeps away from roads, he's learned his routes quite well and over the past few weeks he's been showing me where he feels comfortable.
Now, I just let him out of the door without escorting him around the corner and I find he stays out for less time than before and he seems very different in himself being more of a pleasure to have around. 
Over the past three days, he's started to get very playful, sometimes grabbing my hand and biting, but always very gently.
I also notice that he so much loves outside, and before going off on his own he rolls around the ground and the steps.
Since I first posted on here, he seems to be changing for the better daily, maybe I've got there at last.

Also, thanks for the food advice...I've been concerned about what he eats. 
He drinks a lot of water (loves it from a wine glass, he looks so sophisticated!), and likes to have a mix of food. 
He wants his fish in the mornings plus a few treats..I get him felix goody bag or dreamies, he likes to have one of Tesco's cat sticks to take out with him, and chicken in the evenings. He supplements that with his whiskas kitten dry food.....now the problem is this is what he was used to, and he's so fussy that I'm a bit hesitant in trying new foods, but will certainly keep it in mind.

He eats about 30% of each, topped up with his treats, and seems quite healthy, but I sometimes wonder about his weight...he often seems a little thin which I find odd considering the amount he eats!
At the moment I'm really pleased about the changes in him in just a few days and will be looking to see if it lasts, so thanks a lot for the advice your comments seems to concur with my observations and give me a few pointers as to how to progress with him.
My neighbour once jokingly commented that he would have killed himself by now if my cat was his, because the way he used to reject people was offensive, but he's now becoming a really nice cat to have around..I hope his improvement keeps up.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Just a couple of thoughts for you.

Do you hand feed him treats? If not, then start. Pick a treat that he gets at no other time, something very high reward like those sticks or Temptations (I know he already gets Dreamies). These are only to be fed from your hand, not dropped on the floor etc, so he has to see them as coming from you. When he's gotten close enough that he could grab your hand for a play, pop some treats into your hand and allow him to take them from you there. No touching, no eye contact, nothing except the presented hand with the treats in it.

When he does approach you, just like he did this morning, don't touch him. Instead, give him long, slow blinks. These are very reassuring to cats, often called cat kisses, as they convey love and trust and calm to your cat. Get him used to being by you when you're awake, and let him know that he doesn't need to fear you touching him. next, you can progress to presenting your hand to him to sniff. Keep it a distance away from him so he can choose whether to come to it or not, don't just shove it in his face. Show him the back of your hand so he knows you're not going to grab him or anything that he's not comfy with. When he's comfy with that, Walk away from him and return with treats in your hand. So now, you're engaging with him, but still through the mediam of food. So he will start to view your approach as something to look forward to rather than run away from. Next, move a distance away and present your hand with wiggling fingers. Most cats love wiggling fingers and will come just to investigate what they are. If he brushes your hand with his head or body, let him do so, and don't take it as an invitation to begin a full on stroking session. Instead, give him lot sof voice praise, then move away and start again. This encourages him to come to you, then be forward in seeking affection. Only when he's really confident with this should you get in ONE quick stroke, then immediately present him with a treat, then move away, wiggle fingers, get him to come to you, stroke, treat and repeat. It'll take ages, but it works.

Lastly, I'd consider mixing some Zylkene with his wet food, i.e, the fish or chicken. This is a really good supplement that gives nervous cats confidence, and it sounds like this is what he needs.

Contrary to other advice, I wouldn't give this boy ant-acids. They're very bitter, and quite hard to get down even a very placid cat, so I think if you force pilled him and he tasted something horrid, you're only going to reinstill all the negativity he associates with humans. Obviously I favour my own approach, but I'd urge you to consider trying this first, with the Zylkene as an integral part of what you're doing.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Great advice Carly!:thumbsup: 

Btw, I think Aeschylus was not thinking of an antacid drug as such - which would be a shame to resort to in such a young cat. But perhaps an anti-emetic such as Maropitant Citrate (Cerenia) which is used to treat acute episodes of vomiting in cats and dogs. But I do feel it's pretty doubtful a vet would prescribe such a drug for a psychological problem, without an assessment from a pet behaviour counsellor.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oracleseer - I am very pleased indeed to hear things are improving and your boy seems a little happier and more relaxed, day by day. :thumbsup: Well done! It is lovely to hear he has started to get playful, grabbing your hand and gently biting it. 

Cats are enormously sensitive to our moods, and even the subtlest of changes in ourselves can be sensed by them. It may well be the case that now you are beginning to see some progress in your relationship with your boy, and he is not being so rejecting, you have also relaxed a little too. If so your boy will have picked up on this and in turn it has helped him relax more! This is definitely the way forward! 

You are concerned about him being a little thin, but if he is very active and energetic he will use up a lot of calories. Have you weighed him recently? And has he been treated for worms in the last 3 or 4 mths?

The problem with dry food is that because it contains a lot of carbs it fills the cat up for an hour or two and then they are hungry again. What they need instead is high meat protein food that builds good muscles and strong bones. Certainly the cooked chicken and fish you give him is good protein, but it would be better if you added a supplement to it, such as the one I mentioned earlier to make it a complete food. Most cats will tolerate this one quite well.

Felini Complete: great deals on cat food and supplements at zooplus

Also, you could perhaps think of trying him with some offal, as it will be very good for him. e.g. lamb or pigs kidneys (which you could slice and lightly pan fry), some pan fried chicken livers once a week (no more often than that as they contain Vit A which cats must not have too much of), or some lamb heart or beef heart which you could casserole or stew.

If you are going to continue for the moment with the dry food, it might be 
worth you trying him on Royal Canin Calm, (which contains the same ingredient as the 'Zylkene' supplement Carly suggested,) but also contains *Tryptophan* an amino acid that regulates mood, sleep and appetite. I have heard a number of reports of nervous cats doing very well on Royal Canin Calm.

Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Feline Calm

RC Calm is quite expensive compared to most dry cat foods, but you would not need to give much of it, maybe a teaspoonful or so a day, added to his other dry food if necessary. It works out cheaper than buying Zylkene I think.

Zylkene Capsules - Priced Per Tablet - 75mg - Animed Direct

I hope your cat continues to maintain the progress he has made, and maybe make even more, gradually, as his confidence improves! Please keep in touch and let us know how things go?


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks for that advice Carly. With the cat sticks....this can be quite funny...he loves them and does take them from my hand. I hold the stick for him and he starts to chew one end, then as he gets a good grip on it i can let go, but he's so funny, he purrs and makes peculiar noises while eating it, and goes almost hypnotic.
Never thought about giving the other treats by hand though, will give that a go.
Yesterday was really surprising, he went out early in the morning but came back a couple of hours later, much sooner than normal. When he came in he was all over me, purring, rubbing himself against my leg, he even stood up and place his paws on my legs and allowed me to stroke him. It was a first!

The eye thing...he often does that to me from a distance. He looks at me then slowly blinks both eyes, and I do it back to him.

Chilliminx: I think you're right because I found it amazing that his changes started almost the same time as me posting on this forum. It's possible your responses have changed my mood which he's sensed. I'm really amazed by the way he was yesterday, a real pleasure to have around.
He's just gone out this morning, only wanted a few treats then he was off, so I'll see how his mood is when he gets back.

Another thing...he's had this habit of changing where he sleeps. He'll sleep in a new place for about a week, then switch to somewhere else. I've bought him a basket which he used one week only, and his legs often hung out the front of it, so I thought it was too small. I got him a larger one which he used for one week only. Then he would sleep in one corner, then the next, then on the table, then on a set of drawers, etc, etc.
But about two weeks ago a friend came to visit and she brought a present in a flat cardboard box. The box is about 4 inches high but quite long and wide.
He knocked the box off the table and he slept in it. He uses it all the time now. As soon as he finishes eating, he's in his box!

I've had many cats in the past and have always got on very well with them. I regard them as humans with no voice, and I talk to them as such, and watch them very closely to understand what they're trying to tell me.
But this one never used to 'say' anything except 'thank you'.
(every time I feed him he nudges my hand with his head. Even if i put his plate down before he's near me, he'll always turn, nudge my hand, then start eating!)
It's only recently that he shows me what he wants, and these past few days have been the best!
Thanks for everyone's advice!!!


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## Catloverbearsden (Aug 20, 2013)

Fantastic to hear


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Do keep us updated with how he does!


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Yesterday he was really nice again. Came in from outside and stood up against me, and enjoyed a stroke. But as the day went on he wanted to go out several times, each for about two hours.
He seemed quieter than he has been lately and ate quite a lot in comparison to normal.
This morning I woke up to find him sitting on the floor staring at me, so I reached down to give him a stroke. He rolled to the floor and really enjoyed having his tummy rubbed, but then suddenly he had a heaving fit again.
Think I might take him to the vet.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I think it's a good idea for the vet to have a look at him. I really wonder if the heaving could be due to a physical problem with his tummy - interesting that he had eaten a lot and then he began heaving when you rubbed his tummy. 

How much is "a lot" and how much food a day would he normally eat? 

The fact he was quieter again suggests your cat wasn't feeling so well. 
Where do you think he goes when he disappears for 2 hours in this cold weather? I doubt he is sitting around outside, so he may be going into someone else's house and perhaps they are giving him something to eat or drink (e.g. milk) that upsets his tummy and makes him heave? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened to a cat, especially when the owner is out all day and if the cat in question is shut out because there is no cat flap for them to get back in. 

It might be worth speaking to neighbours either side of you, show them a photo of your cat and ask if they have seen your cat around? Of course they may not admit to feeding him though.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi Chilliminx, I've been thinking the same thing. Yesterday he was very odd, he came in after a few hours, he was out a little longer than he has been the last few days. It started raining just after he went out and I expected him back quicker, he doesn't like the rain.
Anyway, he came in happy to see me, stood up against my leg and enjoyed a stroke, pushing his head into my hand.
He hadn't eaten before going out so was pretty hungry, and I put some treats out on the table while i prepared some fish for him.
When it was ready, I found he had eaten tiny scraps of chicken left on his plate from the previous night, and he was laying down quite contented. He didn't seem interested in the fish now and only ate a little because I picked him up and took him to the food.
He left most of it, then his sister came in and ate it all! He gave her strange looks as if annoyed that she's invaded his territory, and he went and lay in his cardboard box. He stayed there most of the day and had no interest in food or treats or water again. He was looking pretty poorly last night, and I forced some water down him.
I've just got up now, 7.30am, a little later than normal, and again he didn't want to eat and rejected treats...really unusual for him.
He wanted to go out so I let him, but will most likely be taking him to the vet this afternoon.

All my neighbours know him, it's been quite a spectacle to see him following me around to the back garden via the roads, hopping onto walls, into gateways etc, all to avoid cars.
But I must admit that since I've been letting him go on his own, I don't know where he goes to. He stays pretty local, because when ever I go out to find him he just pops up out of nowhere, one moment I can't find him, the next moment he's there, it's baffling!
As for food...i noticed in the past that if i prevent him from going out for a few days, he eats far less. Normally, he would have about half a cod fillet and a few treats in the morning, some dry food in the afternoons and half a chicken fillet in the evenings, topped up with dry food late at night/early morning. He normally drinks loads of water.
Yesterday he had a few 'crumbs' of chicken left on his plate and just a nibble of fish....all in all a fraction of what he normally eats. He had no interest at all in his treats but usually he jumps the moment he hears the bag rustle.
He looked perkier this morning but again not interested in food, I'm going to check his behaviour when he gets back, and will most likely take him to the vets.
If he is eating elsewhere, i'd love to know what they're giving him because he's very fussy about what he eats.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I think when you call him outside, you can't find him and then he suddenly appears he could have been let out of someone's house because they heard you calling him.

The thing is if you shut him out of the flat all day (when you are at work I mean) he is bound to go looking for human company and somewhere warm to snooze, so it is not surprising if he goes in someone else's house really.

But I find it worrying he comes home after a few hours away, not only uninterested in food, but then lies in his box the rest of the day and is so poorly by the evening you had to syringe water into him.  Such extreme ups and downs are not normal, and do suggest he is being given something which is upsetting his tummy. Hopefully not something which is poisonous to him, such as e.g. chocolate. 

I assume he toilets outdoors so you don't see what his stools are like, and therefore wouldn't know if he had diarrhoea or constipation?

The most likely food/drink for one of your neighbours to give him would be milk. Many people who do not have cats of their own are misinformed and assume it is OK to give cats milk - which it is not as cats can't digest milk and it may give them diarrhoea or make them vomit.

If it were me I would be knocking on my neighbours doors in the whole street, asking them not to feed my cat if he comes to their house asking for food or milk. But I appreciate not everyone is comfortable with such an approach. In which case you might prefer to consider having a special collar for him, on which is printed "DO NOT FEED - SPECIAL DIET" or similar.

This company will make a personalised cat collar, with whatever you need printing. It comes with a safety snap, if you want a bell you need to ask for it to be added. They are helpful people to deal with.

Personalised Polypropylene Collars £4.99 - Shop | Daintypaws


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Feeling rather distressed now.....the vets kept him in. He has a temperature in excess of 41.6, inflamed kidneys and blood in his urine. As yet they don't know what's caused it but are waiting for test results.
Poor little thing, i miss him.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this, but very relieved you took him to the vets. Poor little guy. I wonder how long he has been ill with it

Tbh, alarm bells did ring for me when you said he usually drinks loads of water, I wondered about his kidneys but told myself perhaps it was all the dry food he eats. 

When you have him back home you will need to take him off the dry food completely for good, as it is very bad for any cat who has had bladder or kidney problems. Though he can't exist on a diet of home cooked chicken or fish, unless you add a supplement to it such as Felini Complete. 

I would keep him indoors in your flat in the cold weather whilst you are out at work, and provide him with litter trays. Let him out only when you are at home so you can get him back indoors after half an hour or so, and save him getting chilled or going into someone else's house.

I hope he makes a good recovery, and is back with you soon, bless him. Sending many positive thoughts for him.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks chilliminx, i'm feeling rather worried at the moment as i'm not able to find any encouraging info about his condition on the net. I know the vet said it could be just an infection but i don't see many references to that on medical sites.
For the first few months that i had him, my two neighbours and any visitors we had would consider him rude, as he seemed to hate people and being touched, but i've always had a feeling there was something not quite right about him.
He has another sister who stayed with the woman who cared for them when they were born. Apparently that one had been very ill but i never asked what the problem was, i think i need to phone her.
He's turned into a really lovely cat and the way he trusts me and listens to me is amazing, but i've always thought his inability to accept attention with cuddles and strokes was psychological. 
I've got to wait another 6 hours to find out the latest, i'm unable to sleep.
I'll let you know how we get on and i hope it's all good news.
Thanks again for your comments.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

OS, it could be he has had a chronic bladder infection (UTI) over a period of time, which will have been either caused or made worse by the dry food in his diet. This is because dry food can cause chronic low level dehydration and as a result there is not enough urine in the bladder to flush out any bacteria that may be lurking there, or the urine is too concentrated. A more dilute urine (from a wet food diet) will flush out any nasties before they get a hold.

If a UTI remains untreated then it can lead to a kidney infection, which may be what has happened. Vomiting/heaving are one 
symptom of kidney disease. I am hoping no lasting damage has been done to his kidneys, but it is possible he may be left with a weakness, and as mentioned he should certainly never be fed dry food again. 

Thinking positive thoughts for him, and waiting to hear your news.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

thanks Chilliminx, appreciate it. The vet phoned me back late this afternoon and said that his temperature has gone down and that he's eating again. There's still blood in the urine and he's on antibiotics, but they still don't know what caused the infection. They said they were going to give take some xrays to make sure nothing nasty was going on with him, and if not he could come home.
They did say he might be able to come home today, but didn't call me back, so i'm hoping that's because they couldn't take the xrays until late.
It's amazing how much I miss him!!!
His sister has been great company, she's a very funny cat but always on the ball, sharp as anything and always knows what's going on. She always acts as if she understands everything you say to her, and when i told her her brother was in hospital and i don't have my little baby anymore, she jumped off the table and into his box, and lay there exactly the same way he usually does!
Hopefully he'll be back tomorrow!


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

Thanks for the update. I do hope he's feeling better soon.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Very pleased to hear of his progress Oracleseer:thumbsup: Hope things continue to go well and that he'll soon be home with you. Looking forward to more good news.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Just read your heartwarming story all the way through. 

Any news on your boy today? I hope he is feeling better, and can come home to you today.

May I ask his name, and do you have a picture of him?

Sending positive healing vibes xxx


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks everyone for being so nice on here. I've had many cats before but never had one that was so difficult to understand, this one has taken a long time to build up trust but he's finally got to realise we're family and this is is home.
I was so worried while he was away, apart from anything else he wasn't too keen on vets because the last time he went was to be neutered. He actually peed himself on the vets table, so I was really worried not only about his health but about losing that trust.
Anyway....he's home! He has got an infection and an inflamed kidney but they need the infection to go before going any further, it may simply be inflamed because of the infection. He's on anti-biotics for the next 5 days, then has to go back for another scan.
But he's actually looking really good and was really happy to be home. When I picked him up it was as if he always knew I was coming back for him.
This may sound like a silly question but does anyone think that he actually knows he was there because he was ill?
He's not supposed to go out simply because the antibiotics may make him drowsy, but as he will never use the loo at home i don't really have a choice, so i let him out shortly before the next one is due. He seems quite lively and i'm quite confident with him going out.
He actually slept on my bed last night, cuddled up close to my chest, something he's never done before so i'm guessing he missed me too!
Anyway....thanks for all your responses they have helped me through what must have been the most traumatic moments of my life....seriously!


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Louise H: His name...well i think this deserves an explanation! When i got him and his sister (who i gave to my neighbour) neither of us could think of names for them. We wanted something that would suit their character but my ones character was simply 'don't touch me, i hate humans'!
His sister is a comical cat. She has large tufts of hair coming out of here ears and from between her toes, even under her paws. She always sits in a way that she's bound to fall and can be picked up in any way and will remain in that position. I'm sure you could sling her over your shoulder by her back legs and she'd just hang! (joking!) She's so blaise yet so sharp. 
When we let the kittens out into the garden, they would only ever listen when we mentioned food, so i'd have to call out 'chicken' or 'fish' to get them in, but i felt a bit silly calling them chicken and fish!
So i started calling out 'come on babies' and they'd come flying in!
In the end my neighbour named his 'Biscuit' and it really suits her, but i just kept calling mine 'baby'.
Besides, the only way you can hold him is to cradle him in your arms like a baby, so the name stuck and he's called babes or baby!
I did upload some pics of them which i think should be in my profile, mine's the one that is more white than black.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

aww babes is very sweet , i just seen him, you can copy and paste the pic to here if you want,... i think. i love his name , shows how much you love him


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

sorry i just seen your other post , aww i hope babes get better now he is on antibiotics , i would keep trying with the litter tray , its good to be able to see it he is having any problemswith his weeing which you wont see if he goes outside , maybe bring some earth in from where he normally goes and sprinkle on top of the litter.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks again for all your comments. I'm a little bit concerned about letting him out and would prefer if he stayed in, but it's really difficult. Try as I might, i simply can't get him to use the cat tray. I did try using soil a while back, but it just stayed there for two days then got demolished by his sister who never seems to stop pooing!
He's looking really great now, and it's amazing how much he's changed since he's come back from the vets. He used to be such a frantic cat, but he's now so calm and secure in himself. He slept on my bed again last night and i woke up to him leaning against my head. 
He's become so lovely it's an incredible change. I'm curious as to how long he's been having problems, i mean has his entire behaviour changed because of a few antibiotics, or did his being away from me cause this effect? If it's the antibiotics then he's been suffering for a long time.
I'm so glad i took him to the vet, and really happy that i posted on this forum because reading others opinions and advice helped me make that decision.
I'm looking forward now to reading through other posts on here, and contributing my bit for what it's worth.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If he's got kidney problems, then you really do need to force the issue with the litter tray. What would happen if you just kept him in full stop and didn't let him out at all? He'd have to go at some point. Perhaps his avoidance of the tray is bacause his sister uses it, so get him one of his own, put it in a different spot, and don't let her have any access to it at all.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi Carly, thanks for the tip but he's never really used the litter tray even before his sister used it. If i don't let him out, he kicks up a fuss! I've known him to be so desperate to go yet still not use the tray, instead he's cried and cried.
It doesn't help that i've got a really small place, i live in a bedsit. I think if he had more room to wander around he would feel more like staying at home.
In the past, he's had the run from my flat along the corridor into my neighbours, and has felt more relaxed, but my neighbour is disabled and not always up and about, or when he is i'm at work.
I'll be moving soonish to a larger place with garden, so i hope it'll be easier to keep a check on him.
Just a further note...my neighbour came in tonight for a while and was astonished at the change in my cat. He said he's never seen my cat look so comfortable. He's totally changed since coming back from the vet.

ps: just thought though....the rare occasions that he has used the tray have been to spite his sister...maybe i can play on that?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm sure you were joking when you said "to spite his sister" as of course it would be for protective territorial reasons he'd wee in the tray once she has used it. When his sister uses his litter tray she is in fact laying a claim to her brother's territory (your home). So when he smells her urine in his tray his overwhelming instinct is to wee on it to re-establish it as his territory and to leave her the message it's HIS territory, not hers. 

But your idea of getting her to use it so he will afterwards is a good one! 

At any rate, it is really important he passes urine regularly and the worst possible thing is for him to hang on, when he has a kidney infection. Cats have the ability to concentrate their urine in the bladder , which is what you DO NOT want him to do at present. His urine needs to be dilute and comfortable to pass, and he needs to be weeing often (several times a day) to flush out his bladder. 

You need to encourage him to drink lots - have you offered him home-made chicken broth several times a day? Or some Toplife cat milk (from Tesco) which contains goats milk and is well tolerated by cats. Or just plain goat milk from the Deli . 

And of course don't give him any dry food or he will never get over this illness. 

Rather than have him not wee indoors I would let him out if all else fails. Have you tried taking him out (in a safe area) on a harness and lead? I can take one of my cats out like that and I put him in the flower bed and he has a wee like a good boy, then he has a little walk and then I take him back indoors. 

Pleased to hear you are moving soon to a bigger place with a garden. I am sure he will love having his own garden!


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

It might also be worth trying different types of litter too, as they can be quite fussy!

Does your litter tray have a hood on it? If not, maybe you could try one of those also.

So glad to hear that he seems so much happier x


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Chiiliminx, to be honest i got so carried away with concern for his health that i forgot about earlier advice, i.e chicken broth, i'll make sure that's on the menu for tomorrow. He needs to have a urine test in the morning to see if the infections gone, but in all honesty he's looking good!

I used the word 'spite' because i could think of no other at that time, and just remembered the look on his face...!
I let her in today and she immediately went for the litter tray, much to his dislking. He stepped in front of her and blocked her way, then started sniffing the tray. Like the madam she is, she barged passed him and sat in the middle of the tray and peed!
Anyway, he went out but for only 10 minutes, and has been out about 4 times today for a maximum of 30 minutes. Much less than normal and i'm sure only because he needed to.
It's interesting that you mention the territorial thing, because for a long while he didn't care if she used the tray or not, it was only after that vomitting thing that he got protective, but maybe it was because he finally established this was HIS home.
He loves cat milk, but i wondered if it was worth it because it is expensive. I'll get him some more tomorrow.
I was thinking about getting him a harness...i'm sure if i went for a walk with him without a harness he'd follow, but i'd be too scared he would get distracted by cars etc. It's worth thinking about...ideally i need to move asap!

Louise H, you just reminded me that when i first got him i wouldn't let him out at all and although he used the tray, it was with great reluctance. But when i built him a covered litter 'room', he loved it, i should try that again.
As for cat litter, he preferred cheaper litter, much to my pockets delight!

Right now, he's laying comfortably on my bed, four nights in a row now! 
I'm still finding it astonishing that he's changed so much.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You really shouldn't let his sister barge past him like that and use his tray. She's marking her territory, and it's not a good thing to allow her to do this in HIS home.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Yes i think you're right Carly. Up until recently they didn't seem to draw a line between who's home was whose, they'd run along the corridor from flat to flat, but a short while back i had a disagreement with my neighbour and we weren't on good terms for a while.
It was odd how both cats instantly knew there was a problem between us, and they both stopped communicatiing with each other too! 
Since we've laid our differences to rest, my cat seems to have 'claimed' his territory.
I took him to the vets yesterday and he got the all clear, but just before leaving, and unknown to him, his sister dashed into my flat and i left her there.
He was awfully upset to find her there when we got back, i think i need to start separating them a bit now.


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

Very good news that he got the all clear at the vet's. But it does sound like he's more inclined that he used to be to protect his territory from his sister. I think it's a really good idea to keep her out of his litter tray - you don't want him to start finding other places to pee!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Very pleased to hear he got the all-clear at the vets OS:thumbup1: Hope he continues to do well, bless him! 

Do you have him on a 100% wet food diet now, to protect his kidneys?


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi everyone, thanks again for all the comments. He's only on wet food now but he does still enjoy a few treats...dreamies...hope that's ok for him.
I hadn't fully noticed until it was mentioned on here, that both cats are getting territorial now. I think it's more the female trying to encroach on his home, and he's responding to that.
She came in this morning and went straight for the litter tray, but i stopped her and took her back to her flat.
10 minutes later, she tried again, and again i took her back. Third time, she came running in, went straight over to my cay and hit him with her paw.
So she's now barred from the litter tray and if she wants to eat anything it will only be when my one's gone out.

As for him, i still can't believe the phenomenal change in him, and his coat looks so amazingly shiny now. He's never looked so relaxed since i had him.
It's such a pleasure to see him like this and really warming too.
Thanks again everyone!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Pleased to hear he is on wet food!:thumbup1: A couple or three Dreamies a day should be OK for him. 

You did the right thing discouraging his sister from using his tray! :thumbup1: What a little madam she sounds - very territorial! I am sure he will be much happier if she has less easy access to HIS house. 

Very pleased to hear he is looking so well, bless him. I hope this infection was a one-off and now he is on wet food there will be no future episodes. But any sign of him being distant or unfriendly with you again, suspect a health issue is to blame. 

Good Luck!


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks for everything Chilliminx! I still have to take him for a final check up in a couple of weeks time, just routine, but i'm sure he's fine...never knew my cat was so lovely!
I kind of feel sorry for his sister, she loves it at my place and spends all day here if she can, only she's now turned it into a territorial issue and i have to put my foot down.
I think i learned a lesson or two as well, and will certainly be more wary to changes in his behaviour in future...i think it was hard this time because i've never known him to be so lovely since i had him...i thought it was a psychological problem...but if there is a next time i'll be sure to take him to a vet right away!


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