# What Happens if a Brother and Sister Mate?



## anotheruser (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't really want to go into it too much.
Not yet happened but the person I know with a brother and sister has not yet had them spayed. They half mentioned mating them.

Any advice?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

there can be birth defects in my opinion this is very irresponsible if they have no intention in getting them neutered why get a brother/sister pair? Its bad enough 2 brothers or 2 sisters but getting 1 of each is just crazy


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

As DK said - strong possibility of birth defects, vets bills and heartbreak.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The chances of genetic deformities increase greatly with such close in-breeding.
Apart from the issue of unwanted kittens these cats should not be allowed to breed and should be neutered as soon as possible


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

DKDREAM said:


> there can be birth defects in my opinion this is very irresponsible if they have no intention in getting them neutered why get a brother/sister pair? Its bad enough 2 brothers or 2 sisters but getting 1 of each is just crazy


I'm not sure why getting littermates is crazy. I have a pair and never any problems. They were spayed and neutered promptly at 6 months. They've always had each other to play and cuddle with and the experience has been great for us all.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

dagny0823 said:


> *I'm not sure why getting littermates is crazy. *I have a pair and never any problems. They were spayed and neutered promptly at 6 months. They've always had each other to play and cuddle with and the experience has been great for us all.


I think DKDREAM meant why get a brother and sister _"if you were not going to neuter them" _


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

dagny0823 said:


> I'm not sure why getting littermates is crazy. I have a pair and never any problems. They were spayed and neutered promptly at 6 months. They've always had each other to play and cuddle with and the experience has been great for us all.


If you read what I said you will see why i said it was crazy


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> If you read what I said you will see why i said it was crazy


I'm afraid I don't see what you mean either? I don't follow how adopting 2 sisters or 2 brothers is crazy?


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## Puindoors (May 19, 2011)

swatton42 said:


> I'm afraid I don't see what you mean either? I don't follow how adopting 2 sisters or 2 brothers is crazy?


if you are planning on breeding a pair of cats, starting off with a brother and sister is crazy, BUT adopting a pair of kittens from the same litter as pets (wether 2 males, 2 females or one of each) who will be neutered before puberty is a good idea.

Close inbreeding can cause significant birth defects, parents for kittens must be chosen with care to ensure health and vitality.

If a 'pairing' is illegal for people, its not a good idea for animals either.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

swatton42 said:


> I'm afraid I don't see what you mean either? I don't follow how adopting 2 sisters or 2 brothers is crazy?


Yes, that's the part that really threw me. Obviously getting a brother and sister with the intention to mate is nuts, but then you went on to say getting two brothers or two sisters is bad enough.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Send them my way - I have cats that are brother sister matings and probably they were the result of brother sister matings too - they are highly inbred farm ferals which the owner couldn't be arsed to neuter. 
1 that she kept had a huge tumor in it's mouth and died age 2, I had 5 of them as she culdn't find homes for them surprise surprise, 2 of them have an auto-immune condition which means their paw pads puff up and look like marshmallows - v painful and costs loads in steroids and anti-b's, 1 recovered the other not really but it's better they are only 6yrs old. 
They also get every cold going and have to have anti-b's for those, the other brother, Kipper, also has immune problems but not as badly but he is not quite right in the head - the other 2 aren't quite all there either as one thinks it's a dog and the other gets major panic attacks and often won't come in for days!, but Kipper pees on everything, even us if we stand still! 
The other brothers - 1 got run over so I can't say what would have happened to him, but the other one, Nemo, got a common cold and it spread to his liver despite anti'b's and he had to be pts aged 4 - he also had immune issues too. So in short brother sister matings are a really really bad idea as they can concentrate if you like any genetic abnormalities which = BIG vet bills!!!

I've also rescued 4 pups who were the result of a brother sister mating - 1 was epileptic and was on drugs for years, 1 died of leukeamia and had blood transfusions and alsorts of other stuff which was very expensive, 1 went blind quite young and the other did survive until he was 12 and went senile - so again a good example of it not being a good thing!!!!

Tell your friends to be prepared to keep all the resultant kittens as I doubt anyone will want them and that it will cost them a fortune - money is usually what gets ignorant idiots listening!!!:frown2:


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

Puindoors said:


> if you are planning on breeding a pair of cats, starting off with a brother and sister is crazy,* BUT adopting a pair of kittens from the same litter as pets (wether 2 males, 2 females or one of each) who will be neutered before puberty is a good idea*.
> 
> Close inbreeding can cause significant birth defects, parents for kittens must be chosen with care to ensure health and vitality.
> 
> If a 'pairing' is illegal for people, its not a good idea for animals either.


That's what I thought. I couldn't follow why someone thought having 2 same sex cats from the same litter was a bad idea.

Buying a brother/sister to breed from is just ridiculous.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

I've got two sisters as well, I didn't understand it, both were spayed at the same time. Confused about that bit, DK Dream I'm sorry but I do not undestand the last part of your post, please enlighten me.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

PetloverJo said:


> I've got two sisters as well, I didn't understand it, both were spayed at the same time. Confused about that bit, DK Dream I'm sorry but I do not undestand the last part of your post, please enlighten me.


Yes, please do. And DKDream, I wasn't jumping on you, I was just very confused as to why it would be a bad thing. I know getting any littermates is a terrible idea when it's puppies you are talking about--just double trouble with housetraining and any other training for that matter, although double the fun--but with kittens I had never heard of this being an issue. Most people seem to encourage getting littermates.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

n my opinion this is very irresponsible if they have *no intention in getting them neutered *why get a brother/sister pair? Its bad enough 2 brothers or 2 sisters but getting 1 of each is just crazy

I said that because they didnt plan on getting them neutered same if you get 2 boys they will fight and possibly spray and why would you want 2 entire females unless you want to breed?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

dagny0823 said:


> Yes, please do. And DKDream, I wasn't jumping on you, I was just very confused as to why it would be a bad thing. I know getting any littermates is a terrible idea when it's puppies you are talking about--just double trouble with housetraining and any other training for that matter, although double the fun--but with kittens I had never heard of this being an issue. Most people seem to encourage getting littermates.


perhaps my post was not very clear but it was because they had no intentions of getting them neutered was why i said it was crazy lol I myself had a brother and sister but they where both kept separate and then neutered


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

DKDREAM said:


> perhaps my post was not very clear but it was because they had no intentions of getting them neutered was why i said it was crazy lol I myself had a brother and sister but they where both kept separate and then neutered


Ooooohhhhhhhhh, now I get it. Yeah, I misread it that you were saying getting littermates is crazy, but you were saying getting littermates and not getting them fixed is crazy! Indeed it is! :thumbup1:

Sorry I'm a little slow on a lazy Saturday, perhaps


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Yes I get it to, maybe because we are responsible cat owners and have already thought about getting kitten neutered/spayed before purchase made us read the post wrong


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## anotheruser (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.
I am sure they will get them spayed eventually but they are both nearly 1 so the female will obviously be in heat and the male active.

It's a very difficult situation for me :frown:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If something isn't done soon to either neuter or separate them it may be too late  and your friend will be letting themselves for a great deal of trouble 
Please try to get them to understand the sort of problems they are likely to encounter.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Much depends on how related or unrelated the parents were. Very close matings are occasionally done with pedigree cats. My Burmese boy is the result of a father - daughter mating and he's fine, I did once have an accidental mating between a brother and sister and the kittens were all fine but they were small.

As soon as you start inbreeding, you get something called inbreeding depression which means that you lose size, health and vigour. I am working on two deliberate outcross programmes and have also been involved in one in the past, and the increase in the size, health and vigour of outcross kittens, compared to "normally bred" pedigrees, is really quite alarming.

With a full-sib mating, what you are doing is just a step further than we routinely do with pedigree animals  *It is certainly not to be recommended* but as a one-off the kittens will probably be OK.

Liz


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

How about instead of trying to convince them not to do this, you just offhandedly ask if the male has started spraying yet, or mention how bad unneutered male cat pee smells, or the interesting fact that unneutered queens will spray too, so if your friend doesn't fancy their home reeking of pee and their sleep broken by yowling (for heats and mating), then they may rethink on those reasons alone. Maybe even make up a story about visiting someone with an unneutered male and how it just smelled so awful in there and they were having to have their sofa recovered because he sprayed all over it. Sometimes the indirect approach works wonders :thumbup1:


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> perhaps my post was not very clear but it was because they had no intentions of getting them neutered was why i said it was crazy lol I myself had a brother and sister but they where both kept separate and then neutered


O now i get what you mean


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Apparently the really delightful thing is when a boy sprays in the toaster, the smell is something else, I hear. It's never happened to me but I have had a boy spray on a socket and put all the electric sockets out - in January.

Liz


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's not fantastic when a girl sprays the toaster!


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

We lost two toasters due to stud cat wee in very close sucession - he is now outdoors. We also lost use of the kitchen for several days as the smell was worse than anything I've ever smelt and lingered ages. Expense on new toasters and several days of take aways - the utter joys of breeding!!! 

:thumbup1:


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