# New Breeder - Indepth research first



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Hi all,

I have a cross breed (Labrador/Dalmatian) female, 3 years old, no health problems, wonderful temperament. very mothering nature.

I have been researching for some time about breeding, whether it is an option, all the facilities needed, time etc...
I have changed jobs allowing me a lot of flexibility, clean living conditions, socialisation both human and other dogs, in-home rearing, etc...

I am also currently putting together a non-exhaustive list of the 'puppy packs' I will produce.
- 6 months insurance
- Micro chipped
- Wormed
- Vet checked
- Information on puppies in general/ the breeds/ mother/ father/ all health check info
- Puppy socialisaion
- Puppy training information (plus all my contact detail regarding help and other problems such as returning the puppy) I have trained my dogs myself, I am very experienced and would be more than happy to help
- Some puppy food supplies and info on what is best to use
- Toy

Then before allowing the puppy to go to it's new home, I would take the puppy and the mother on car journeys to make sure the puppy is comfortable in cars and also pre-visits to the new home, making sure the puppy fits in well with it's new owners.

I am 100% committed in making sure first and foremost, that my dog is medically sound and gain the certificates, so I want to get a DNA profile done with Hip and Elbow dysplasia tests, eye test and Baer testing.

Then through the pregnancy I would also have my dog checked by a vet to make sure everything is going okay, have a nutritious diet for her to be on and support throughout.

*I cannot find estimate costs of the pre- pregnancy tests (as I said, I want to be very through ) so if anyone had recent costs handy or best estimates then it would be very helpful?*

Thank you and also, if you believe I should add anything to the puppy packs or any information you think would be good advice, then please feel free to offer your insight


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

How can you be sure of no health problems, when you haven't had the health tests done yet?

I would worry first about health tests, before anything else and puppy packs should be the least of your worries.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> How can you be sure of no health problems, when you haven't had the health tests done yet?
> 
> I would worry first about health tests, before anything else and puppy packs should be the least of your worries.


Yes, that's what I said. My question was asking if anyone knew roughly how much the tests cost as I want to be thorough in my research.

Adding info to puppy packs was just an added extra if people had any advice.

Thanks


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Why are you considering breeding your crossbreed?

Why not put that research into good use and seek out a purebred from an experienced, knowledgeable & reputable breeder, who is perhaps willing to mentor you with the view to possibly breeding in the future?

That said, why do you even want to breed?


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> Why are you considering breeding your crossbreed?
> 
> Why not put that research into good use and seek out a purebred from an experienced, knowledgeable & reputable breeder, who is perhaps willing to mentor you with the view to possibly breeding in the future?
> 
> That said, why do you even want to breed?


I used to live next to a breeder of 30 years, breeding crossbreeds and helped him during my free time for many years but 2 years ago he passed. I have been mentored and have a lot of knowledge but don't know the financial costs, so that's a big part that I am researching.

That's why I'm asking about the cost of tests.

I want to breed dogs because I loved helping him breed the dogs and I have had the opportunity to learn from a guy who has spent many years caring and making sure dogs go to the best homes. Same as for the training. This is what I want to do and I feel that I am very capable with the experience, people might think it might be a bit stupid but I have researched fully and learned from someone who was a great role model and inspiring. I have trained all my dogs myself and have helped people with training problems in the community too. 
I have no concern about profit and making money. I intend to be giving my very best and I am fully aware that 2hrs sleep per night with pups would be a luxury.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
the needed tests would include anything needed for Labs, *plus *all the tests needed for Dals.
All breeds need a current eye-certificate, signed by a k9 opthalmologist after a full exam, including pupil-dilation to examine the interior & retina.
.
AVAR lists these as Dal concerns:
_*Dalmatian*: _
_2, 10, 22, 32a, 38, 64, 78, 80, 81, 83, 85b, 88, 103, 129, 130, 135, 136, 140, 143a, 152, 166, 184a, 192, 193a, 199, 214, 221, 221a, 230, 250b, 256, 258a, 268, 273a, 275, 294, 312, 321, 322, 322a _
_._
& these as Labrador worries:
_*Labrador Retriever*: _
_3, 7, 9, 9a, 10, 16a, 21, 22, 40, 42, 52a, 59, 68, 75, 77, 78, 81, 85, 88, 89, 94, 95, 103, 109, 114a, 121, 122, 129a,143a, 146, 147, 148, 149, 152, 158, 159a, 160, 166, 192, 193, 194b,197, 204a, 206a, 221, 221a, 244, 245, 256, 257, 258, 269, 270, 276, 282, 304a, 312, 315, 330_
_._
_._
each possible heritable issue is listed here:
http://www.hsvma.org/assets/pdfs/guide-to-congenital-and-heritable-disorders.pdf
.
Some will have tests available [DNA cheek-swab/ DNA blood, maybe a 5-way thyroid panel for hypothyroid, a skin-punch to check for Sebaceous Adenitis, radiographs for hip / knee / elbow, etc]. // I'd recommend PennHIP 3-pose radiographs, rather than the BVA / KC single-pose version.
http://info.antechimagingservices.com/pennhip/navigation/locate-pennHIP-vet/locate-pennHIP-vet.html

Some will need *honest* records from the breeders or owners of relatives: parents, siblings, uncle / aunt, 1st cousins, half-sibs.
An example of a heritable issue that lacks a screening test is *bloat / GDV*. Only truthful facts about 1st-degree relatives who bloated will tell U the potential genetic risk for the individual dog, as a candidate for breeding.
.
.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

WardDog92 said:


> I have a cross breed (Labrador/Dalmatian) female, 3 years old, no health problems, wonderful temperament. very mothering nature.
> 
> I have been researching for some time about breeding, whether it is an option, all the facilities needed, time etc...
> I have changed jobs allowing me a lot of flexibility, clean living conditions, socialisation both human and other dogs, in-home rearing, etc...
> ...


Hip and Elbow scoring vary from vet to vet as there is the standard charge for scoring by the KC plus whatever fees the particular vet charges

So £63 for hip scoring; joint hip and elbow scoring is £114 you can usually add on circa £100 for the vet doing it.

I have no idea how much BAER testing costs again I think this is down to the individual practice carrying it out and not all do.

Optigen will tell you how much the DNA test - prcd-PRA is and the annual eye tests are £56

Not sure what the cost is of DNA profiling, mine were done several years ago

Not sure how much the canine herpes jab is

Again the progesterone testing also varies between provider

I am not sure what breed of dog you are considering using on your bitch, IME it is doubtful that a reputable breeder would allow their stud dog to be used on a cross breed.

Stud fees tend to vary from the price of a puppy to ridiculous sums and of course the sire will need to be similarly health tested.

Your bitch will already be microchipped of course in readiness for the tests

And last but not least you will have a waiting list of people who are champing at the bit to have such progeny with the relevant dosh


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm sorry, but I don't think cross breeds should be bred. Any breeding really ought to be for the betterment of the breed, and your girl, as lovely as she is, isn't a breed


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

I think DLL moreso meant 'why' in relation to the dogs involved and produced... not what enjoyment you'd get out of it


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

if you are really serious about breeding and love your dog, you wouldn't even consider embarking on this journey. no doubts you have a lovely, wonderful girl, we all think our dogs are wonderful, yet we often get blindsided.
my advice would be if you are serious about breeding and like both breeds that produced your girl, approch reputable breeders of each breed and purchase a puppy to start from scratch. but please be honest about your intentions, you may find you hit a brick wall with some, yet others are more open and willing to help, remember, many, many breeders sacrifice lots for their much loved puppies. so it's not going to be easy convincing some that your intentions are honourable.


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a cross breed (Labrador/Dalmatian) female, 3 years old, no health problems, wonderful temperament. very mothering nature.
> 
> ...


It is refreshing to see you're looking in to actual health tests  
It's important to note though, unless your bitch's sire and dam were also thoroughly health tested, you won't have as accurate a picture of what she might pass on to future puppies.

And as already mentioned, a sire from responsible owners, who have also health tested will be hard to find. No responsible breeder would want their sire known to have been willingly bred to a crossbred.

What is your purpose in breeding your bitch? What kind of puppies are you hoping she will produce?


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> It is refreshing to see you're looking in to actual health tests
> It's important to note though, unless your bitch's sire and dam were also thoroughly health tested, you won't have as accurate a picture of what she might pass on to future puppies.
> 
> And as already mentioned, a sire from responsible owners, who have also health tested will be hard to find. No responsible breeder would want their sire known to have been willingly bred to a crossbred.
> ...


Firstly, I 'quoted' all replies in hopes that I can reply to everyone and not seem like I'm ignoring or anything... so hopefully I've done that correctly.

Health tests are first and foremost the most important, I would in no way breed from a bitch that didn't pass the tests, and the same standards from the sire. I can track back and still have contact details of the person who bred my dog, and they have health tests and such available from the parents.

There is a 7yr old sire we see regularly in the community, he has bred multiple times, thoroughly health checked and the owner expressed interest in the possibility of breeding, after health results. The sire's a pure bred Labrador.

I have started to asses what I'd put in the whole 'puppy packs' but this does not mean that I would do it, regardless the results. I aim to be 100% ready before I make my final decision and would be totally fine with dropping everything and not going ahead with it, if I felt it wouldn't be right or the health tests were poor.

All the dogs I have owned have been cross breeds, German Shepard/Collie, Dalmador, etc. My German Shepard/Collie lived for 19yr 7mths, completely mobile. Many people don't think cross breeding is right but in my experience of helping a cross breeder and also owning multiple cross breed dogs, I have to say I disagree IF, both the owner and the breeder are responsible and take care. However, designer dogs and such, I don't think is fair on the dog.

Once everything is complete, I would then look for potential homes for the puppies, before breeding and I would not have any trouble in rejecting a home due to poor conditions/ etc.. if I felt that it's not a suitable environment.

*I completely understand why breeders and dog lovers alike, are hesitant when it comes to new breeders because a lot of people who breed, are irresponsible and we hear all to often, of puppy farms and such. 
*
Thank you for the information regarding health checks too, I will contact my dogs veterinary practice in the coming weeks to start these tests and also take the vets advice


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

You still haven't said what would be the purpose in producing a litter of labXdalmatians


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

No reputable breeder would really be interested in using their dog on a crossbreed, it just makes no sense to unless for very specific reasons i.e outcrossing, or a specific goal in mind. Sorry, but I get the distinct impression this is more about you @WardDog92. Again, why not put all this research and thought into contacting a purebred breeder? Why are you so convinced your bitch needs to be bred? Just because she can, and you've lived with crossbreeds all your life doesn't mean you should.

What is the pedigree name of this Labrador stud? It's easy to look up dogs now via their KC name and see the proof of their health test results.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> You still haven't said what would be the purpose in producing a litter of labXdalmatians


How do you mean?

Dalmadors are wonderful family pets, very energetic, gentle and loyal. I would want the pups to go to loving family homes.

I believe that the Lab x Dalmatian is a beautiful example of a cross breed.

Though appearances can differ a lot, my dog is all black with a white chest patch and white paws.

I also know there are a lot of families in the area who love cross breed dogs and many have asked where I got my dog from. So there is definitely an interest in Dalmadors.

I wouldn't consider breeding if there wasn't any interest from good homes or if there wasn't a waiting list ready of people who have been given pre-puppy information on the cross breed and time spent with the bitch and sire to make sure that they have chosen right.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sorry, but I get the distinct impression this is more about you @WardDog92.


Sorry but you're wrong.
I get a very obvious impression that you don't like cross breed dogs and that you are set in this mindset, that's fine.

I havent looked into the sire's records, like I said above, my priority is my dogs health checks first before I consider looking for the right sire.
However, I do know the owner of a potential sire, so next time I see the owner, I will ask for the information.

So yes, there are registered potential sire's out there.


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> How do you mean?
> 
> Dalmadors are wonderful family pets, very energetic, gentle and loyal. I would want the pups to go to loving family homes.
> 
> ...


So if I'm understanding correctly, you're breeding them primarily as pets? Which is arguably the most important job a dog will have.

So as pets, how are the dogs you're planning to produce going to offer anything better than the crossbreeds that already exist in shelters and rescues?
What kind of temperament testing have you done on your bitch, what do you know about the temperaments in the dogs behind her? What about the sire you've chosen, what kind of temperament testing has he had done?
Meeting a dog and thinking they have a nice temperament is not the same as true testing like would be required for a therapy dog or even the bronze, silver, and gold medal scheme.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> So if I'm understanding correctly, you're breeding them primarily as pets? Which is arguably the most important job a dog will have.
> 
> So as pets, how are the dogs you're planning to produce going to offer anything better than the crossbreeds that already exist in shelters and rescues?
> What kind of temperament testing have you done on your bitch, what do you know about the temperaments in the dogs behind her? What about the sire you've chosen, what kind of temperament testing has he had done?
> Meeting a dog and thinking they have a nice temperament is not the same as true testing like would be required for a therapy dog or even the bronze, silver, and gold medal scheme.


It's not just cross breeds in re-homing shelters.

Yes, that's why embedding into the family environment correctly and the family understanding the needs and therefore, making sure they have made the right choice, is untimately very important.

My bitch has had temperament tests, that is something I made sure about. She has a lovely balance of both breeds, that can be seen just looking and spending time with her, but of course, that is not enough, so I had the test done.

The sire (potential) has a great temperament though I have not seen his test results, as I said in the previous post. I want to get the relevant tests for my dog first, before even considering looking at the sire's records.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

WardDog92 said:


> How do you mean?
> 
> Dalmadors are wonderful family pets, very energetic, gentle and loyal. I would want the pups to go to loving family homes.
> 
> ...


There is a huge difference between someone admiring your dog and being curious where she came from and them wanting to take a puppy home.

Don't forget that, as a conscientious and ethical Breeder, you must guarantee to take back any of the pups you have bred, should it be necessary, regardless of their age. Dalmatians and Labradors tend to have very large litters so, not only will it be far from easy to find wonderful homes for a large number of crossbred pups, but you could well find yourself trying to rehome adult dogs in the future, which will be even more difficult.

I believe there should be sound reasons for anyone to breed a litter of pups and you don't seem to have any good reason other than that you will enjoy it.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Sorry but you're wrong.
> I get a very obvious impression that you don't like cross breed dogs and that you are set in this mindset, that's fine.
> 
> I havent looked into the sire's records, like I said above, my priority is my dogs health checks first before I consider looking for the right sire.
> ...


I own two crossbreeds myself, so no, not against them at all. I just don't get why you think yours is breed worthy? How yours will differ to the hundreds of other crossbreed litters advertised right at this moment? Because they will make nice pets? Well, so would my Lurcher boy have produced gorgeous family pets. Doesn't mean he should automatically be bred.

I don't doubt there aren't registered sires out there, that wasn't my point. But just because they're KC registered does not make their owner responsible or ethical. Studding a dog out numerous times to all & sundry speaks more about money than the general betterment of the breed and what he is producing.

You're obviously set in your own mindset so no trying to convince you otherwise is worth the effort. Of course you can't make any definite plans either way until you know her health test results. The BMS for Labs & Dalmatians is 10 so you're looking for scores ideally lower than those on your bitch & the stud dog.

Further health tests required are listed here - http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/labrador-retriever/ and here - http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/dalmatian/


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> It's not just cross breeds in re-homing shelters.
> 
> Yes, that's why embedding into the family environment correctly and the family understanding the needs and therefore, making sure they have made the right choice, is untimately very important.
> 
> ...


What temperament test if you don't mind me asking?


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> My bitch has had temperament tests, that is something I made sure about. She has a lovely balance of both breeds, that can be seen just looking and spending time with her, but of course, that is not enough, so I had the test done.


Well that's good! What test(s) did she have done then?


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Sweety said:


> There is a huge difference between someone admiring your dog and being curious where she came from and them wanting to take a puppy home.
> 
> Don't forget that, as a conscientious and ethical Breeder, you must guarantee to take back any of the pups you have bred, should it be necessary, regardless of their age. Dalmatians and Labradors tend to have very large litters so, not only will it be far from easy to find wonderful homes for a large number of crossbred pups, but you could well find yourself trying to rehome adult dogs in the future, which will be even more difficult.
> 
> I believe there should be sound reasons for anyone to breed a litter of pups and you don't seem to have any good reason other than that you will enjoy it.


Sound reasons would include a waiting list of people who absolutely want to bring a Dalmador puppy into their home.

You seem yo have judged and that's fine but I have been clear on the steps I would take before even making the decision on breeding.

And yes, I believe I said previously that I would be happy be take back from the people who bought the puppies.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Quote -
"However, designer dogs and such, I don't think is fair on the dog"

Yet you're already nicknaming them Dalmadors.....


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

WardDog92 said:


> It's not just cross breeds in re-homing shelters.
> 
> Yes, that's why embedding into the family environment correctly and the family understanding the needs and therefore, making sure they have made the right choice, is untimately very important.
> 
> ...


it's not all about temperament, it's just one of many factors to consider.

you'll also find the vast majority of dogs in rehoming centres are crossbreeds, you will of course find many pedigree dogs in rehoming centers across the world, but not the kind that have come from caring, ethical breeders.
my dog has a lovely temperament, a fantastic pedigree, ticks all the boxes and is a show quality dog, but just because she comes into season, has a womb and i have no doubt could produce a lovely litter with sound temperament if paired with a dog of similar qualities, does not mean i should breed her just because i can.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> Quote -
> "However, designer dogs and such, I don't think is fair on the dog"
> 
> Yet you're already nicknaming them Dalmadors.....


Lab x Dalmatian are called Dalmadors...

Had her tested as a puppy by myself and then by a vet. Though that isn't a great representation I had it done again once home and settled after a month, but this time it was over a 6 month period and then when she reached 2yr old, had it done again.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Nagini said:


> it's not all about temperament, it's just one of many factors to consider.
> 
> you'll also find the vast majority of dogs in rehoming centres are crossbreeds, you will of course find many pedigree dogs in rehoming centers across the world, but not the kind that have come from caring, ethical breeders.
> my dog has a lovely temperament, a fantastic pedigree, ticks all the boxes and is a show quality dog, but just because she comes into season, has a womb and i have no doubt could produce a lovely litter with sound temperament if paired with a dog of similar qualities, does not mean i should breed her just because i can.


Exactly, hense why I have always reafirmed that I have in no way decided yet.... but I think some people here have already decided that I have decided to do it...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Lab x Dalmatian are called Dalmadors...
> 
> Had her tested as a puppy by myself and then by a vet. Though that isn't a great representation I had it done again once home and settled after a month, but this time it was over a 6 month period and then when she reached 2yr old, had it done again.


Ok so not an official temperament test.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Lab x Dalmatian are called Dalmadors...


'Fraid not.
They are Lab X, Dal X or Lab X Dal...they are not Dalmadors


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

So if I mate our Staffy bitch to my friend's Labrador, I can call the pups Staffydors and that makes it right?

I'm afraid the fact that you have dreamed up a name for this cross doesn't alter the fact that you're proposing deliberately breeding a litter of crossbred pups when the Rescue Shelters and Pounds are full of them and many are being put to sleep every day.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> Ok so not an official temperament test.


It was done twice over a period of 6 months by a vet who gave me a detailed overview on paper.

Is that not the test?


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Sweety said:


> So if I mate our Staffy bitch to my friend's Labrador, I can call the pups Staffydors and that makes it right?
> 
> I'm afraid the fact that you have dreamed up a name for this cross doesn't alter the fact that you're proposing deliberately breeding a litter of crossbred pups when the Rescue Shelters and Pounds are full of them and many are being put to sleep every day.


Literally silly even saying the name of the cross is dreamed up by me.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

StormyThai said:


> 'Fraid not.
> They are Lab X, Dal X or Lab X Dal...they are not Dalmadors


Vets call them Dalmadors. Registered at Clifton Lodge as a Dalmador by the vet... so...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

WardDog92 said:


> Literally silly even saying the name of the cross is dreamed up by me.


Oh, I do apologise.

Let me rephrase.

Because somebody else dreamed up a name for the cross. I didn't just realise someone beat you to it.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Vets call them Dalmadors. Registered at Clifton Lodge as a Dalmador by the vet... so...


I could register my dog as a pink unicorn...doesn't make it so


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Lab x Dalmatian are called Dalmadors...


No, they're called mutts  I have a muttdog, he's a great dog, nothing wrong with mutts. Putting a fancy name on them doesn't make them not mutts 



WardDog92 said:


> My bitch has had temperament tests, that is something I made sure about. She has a lovely balance of both breeds, that can be seen just looking and spending time with her, but of course, that is not enough, so I had the test done.





WardDog92 said:


> Had her tested as a puppy by myself and then by a vet. Though that isn't a great representation I had it done again once home and settled after a month, but this time it was over a 6 month period and then when she reached 2yr old, had it done again.





WardDog92 said:


> It was done twice over a period of 6 months by a vet who gave me a detailed overview on paper.
> 
> Is that not the test?


Is that not what test? 
You claimed you had your bitch temperament tested. So we asked what test. There are several credible temperament tests as well as titles your dog can earn that show the dog's temperament has been tested by an unbiased outside source. A vet that you're paying is not exactly unbiased. 
For example, my muttdog has several obedience titles which speak to his biddability (an important quality in a pet) he also has his canine good citizen title as well as having passed the Therapy Dogs International test which qualifies him to work as a therapy dog. All of these tests point to his good temperament.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ouesi said:


> No, they're called mutts  I have a muttdog, he's a great dog, nothing wrong with mutts. Putting a fancy name on them doesn't make them not mutts
> 
> Is that not what test?
> You claimed you had your bitch temperament tested. So we asked what test. There are several credible temperament tests as well as titles your dog can earn that show the dog's temperament has been tested by an unbiased outside source. A vet that you're paying is not exactly unbiased.
> For example, my muttdog has several obedience titles which speak to his biddability (an important quality in a pet) he also has his canine good citizen title as well as having passed the Therapy Dogs International test which qualifies him to work as a therapy dog. All of these tests point to his good temperament.


Then you must offer him at stud without delay.

Does he have a pulse?

If he does, what are you messing about for?

Can I recommend you mate him to a nice Jack Russell and you can call the pups JackaBates.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Lab x Dalmatian are called Dalmadors....


No, as pointed out, they're crossbreeds. They don't have a name. You can call them Dalmation/Lab mixes or vice versa, but to call them 'dalmadors' is a good way of conning the naïve general public into believing they own something 'rare' which in turn means you can advertise the pups for higher prices.....


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Is that not what test?
> You claimed you had your bitch temperament tested. So we asked what test. There are several credible temperament tests as well as titles your dog can earn that show the dog's temperament has been tested by an unbiased outside source. A vet that you're paying is not exactly unbiased.
> For example, my muttdog has several obedience titles which speak to his biddability (an important quality in a pet) he also has his canine good citizen title as well as having passed the Therapy Dogs International test which qualifies him to work as a therapy dog. All of these tests point to his good temperament.


I was under the impression the 2 temperament tests the vet did over 2 6 month periods, qualified as tests, with detailed written overviews.

Good citizen and therapy tests have not been done, nor was I ever informed of these tests until now.

I'm not sure how the vet could be biased as she'd still get paid and there's 6 vets working in the area for Clifton Lodge so it's not like I see her all the time but definitely was of the understanding that the tests the vet performed were correct.


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> I was under the impression the 2 temperament tests the vet did over 2 6 month periods, qualified as tests, with detailed written overviews.
> 
> Good citizen and therapy tests have not been done, nor was I ever informed of these tests until now.
> 
> I'm not sure how the vet could be biased as she'd still get paid and there's 6 vets working in the area for Clifton Lodge so it's not like I see her all the time but definitely was of the understanding that the tests the vet performed were correct.


What do the tests entail? Do you know?
What does that vet know about temperament?


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## Guest (May 21, 2017)

Sweety said:


> Then you must offer him at stud without delay.
> 
> Does he have a pulse?
> 
> ...


When unfortunately when I acquired him he was already neutered. Too bad, I guess I missed the boat there


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> No, as pointed out, they're crossbreeds. They don't have a name. You can call them Dalmation/Lab mixes or vice versa, but to call them 'dalmadors' is a good way of conning the naïve general public into believing they own something 'rare' which in turn means you can advertise the pups for higher prices.....


Oh, well that isn't my intention at all. I know she's a cross breed but everone including the vet, says she's a Dalmador, but when I see people I always say she is a Lab x Dal.


----------



## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Are vets not more health based than behaviour based anyways?
Thats why there are behaviourists out there, rather than vets solving every dog related issue?


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

WardDog92 said:


> It was done twice over a period of 6 months by a vet who gave me a detailed overview on paper.
> 
> Is that not the test?


No

There are recognised temperament tests out there:

The Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme - Bronze, Silver, Gold - however this not foolproof nor very testing and more about obedience than anything else.

There is the BH Test (Begleithunde) in IPO which is a test of both obedience and temperament (this was what the KCGCDS was based on)

Then there is the Temperament Test which the Rottweiler Club started which, IMHO, in the UK is the gold standard as it cannot really be practised.

My last two dogs successfully completed all three.....................

If you conducted a temperament test on your own dog yourself, what criteria did you use?

Then there are the specialist temperament tests eg for Pets as Therapy............


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> What do the tests entail? Do you know?
> What does that vet know about temperament?


Yes,
A test was done first as a puppy, just very minimal.

Then through development, petting, handle, reaction to sound, reaction to collar, reaction to outside, reaction to in-home appliances, responce to food, response to socialisation, reaction to prey, reaction to walking stimula such as bikes, pushchairs, etc..

Basically I called the vet practice and asked about temperament test and the vet told me what they do (above). Then I got it done.

Thought that was correct but from what you're saying it's not right


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

My dogs have never reacted to me praying....................................


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> No
> 
> There are recognised temperament tests out there:
> 
> ...


I was never advised about any of this when I asked the vet. Kind of annoyed about that because both me and the vet went through this process many times while doing the 'tests' I stated above but they did not inform me of any KC tests or furthering what the vet had done.

So can you just apply to get this done via the website?


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> My dogs have never reacted to me praying....................................


That would be prayer or praying ... not prey


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Yes,
> A test was done first as a puppy, just very minimal.
> 
> Then through development, petting, handle, reaction to sound, reaction to collar, reaction to outside, reaction to in-home appliances, responce to food, response to socialisation, reaction to pray, reaction to walking stimula such as bikes, pushchairs, etc..
> ...


It's not about whether the tests are "right" or not, it's about whether the tests effectively measure what you need them to measure. 
As you are thinking of breeding primarily in order to produce pets, then you should be measuring temperament for suitability for being a pet. In the US one of the best measures of that is the Canine Good Citizen test as well as the Therapy Dog test. For the equivalents in the UK please refer to @smokeybear post above.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> My dogs have never reacted to me praying....................................


When mine was younger he would try to hump me if I got down on my knees.

I just felt the need to share that little tidbit  :Bag


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> No
> 
> There are recognised temperament tests out there:
> 
> ...


So the test the the Rottweiler club founded, is now used for all too?

I will look into these and get them done.

Thanks


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

The litter my dog came from was temperament tested by the Pets as Therapy team. It had a particular name but for the life of me I cant remember what it was. Must have been okey as they had one of the pups.
These days I rate temperament testing in a dog on a par with health testing.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

WardDog92 said:


> That would be prayer or praying ... not prey


Yes it would, I see you have corrected the spelling in your post now.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Siskin said:


> The litter my dog came from was temperament tested by the Pets as Therapy team. It had a particular name but for the life of me I cant remember what it was. Must have been okey as they had one of the pups.
> These days I rate temperament testing in a dog on a par with health testing.


I am a Pets as Therapy Temperament Assessor, but PAT do not take on dogs themselves, all dogs belong to the volunteers................


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

WardDog92 said:


> So the test the the Rottweiler club founded, is now used for all too?
> 
> I will look into these and get them done.
> 
> Thanks


My Weimaraner and GSD passed it


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> Yes it would, I see you have corrected the spelling in your post now.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I am a Pets as Therapy Temperament Assessor, but PAT do not take on dogs themselves, all dogs belong to the volunteers................


Ok, presumably one of the volunteers took the pup, didn't know any more then they came and did the test and had one of the pups was deemed suitable.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

smokeybear said:


> My Weimaraner and GSD passed it


Okay so in line with health checks, I will also get temperament tests done.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

Siskin said:


> Ok, presumably one of the volunteers took the pup, didn't know any more then they came and did the test and had one of the pups was deemed suitable.


In the US dogs have to be at least a year old before they can take the Therapy dog test. Though they prefer 18 months or older.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

@WardDog92 do you do anything with your bitch? Any training, dog sports, etc?


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> @WardDog92 do you do anything with your bitch? Any training, dog sports, etc?


Yes, she is fully trained basic training but I also do other training/ games, predominately search games, get her to find someone and bring them back to me. Agility training too, using obstacles (jump up/through/over/under/ontop of). Also, in the winter I take her to the dog swimming pool since it gets dark outside quickly.

I also live close to acres of land and the dog friendly beach too so spend a lot of time there, socialising with the dogs.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Yes, she is fully trained basic training but I also do other training/ games, predominately search games, get her to find someone and bring them back to me. Agility training too, using obstacles (jump up/through/over/under/ontop of). Also, in the winter I take her to the dog swimming pool since it gets dark outside quickly.
> 
> I also live close to acres of land and the dog friendly beach too so spend a lot of time there, socialising with the dogs.


So no classes? Competitions?

What is "fully trained basic training"?


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Aren't there enough mongrels in rescues, why would you want to breed more of them. 

Are you sure you have homes waiting for the puppies you are going to breed, if not what are you going to do with any puppies you can't sell?

Most pedigree breeders normal having waiting lists for their puppies, not just breed and hope they sell them.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> So no classes? Competitions?
> 
> What is "fully trained basic training"?


Done all the training myself, haven't needed classes. New things I work on with her and she picks them up relatively quickly.

I've had no need to enter her into competitions, everything I do, training/agility/etc.. I do because with both enjoy it and want to keep progressing. So to be honest, I've never considered competitions because I haven't done it for the reason of to enter into competitions.

Basic training is just the simple things, simple commands, call back, leave, allow to investigate, etc... Very basic like I assume, you'd expect all dogs to have.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Happy Paws said:


> Aren't there enough mongrels in rescues, why would you want to breed more of them.
> 
> Are you sure you have homes waiting for the puppies you are going to breed, if not what are you going to do with any puppies you can't sell?
> 
> Most pedigree breeders normal having waiting lists for their puppies, not just breed and hope they sell them.


I said before that I'd only do it if there was a waiting list. I haven't decided either way yet and won't until all the relevant tests and information is collated.


----------



## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

With no classes or competitions, there is no unbaised view saying "yes, your dog is good!"
Sure, she's probably a fab pet for you, but is she _really_ more worth passing on her genes than any other, in an already overcrowded world?


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Done all the training myself, haven't needed classes. New things I work on with her and she picks them up relatively quickly.
> 
> I've had no need to enter her into competitions, everything I do, training/agility/etc.. I do because with both enjoy it and want to keep progressing. So to be honest, I've never considered competitions because I haven't done it for the reason of to enter into competitions.
> 
> Basic training is just the simple things, simple commands, call back, leave, allow to investigate, etc... Very basic like I assume, you'd expect all dogs to have.


Then you have no idea what her temperament is like compared to the thousands of lovely temperaments already out there. 
You have no idea how trainable or how good her training is compared to the thousands of lovely trained dogs already out there. 
You have no idea how many lovely dogs are already out there, NOT being bred, because the owners are educated enough to realize that not every "nice" dog needs to be bred.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

BlueJay said:


> With no classes or competitions, there is no unbaised view saying "yes, your dog is good!"
> Sure, she's probably a fab pet for you, but is she _really_ more worth passing on her genes than any other, in an already overcrowded world?


Maybe nothing unbiased as far as having 1st place winnings in competitions and stuff.

I don't enter her into competitions because getting a ribbon wasn't a priority. Though I could enter her in.

I believe people should be able to train their own dog to a very high standard, and then progressing from there onwards.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Then you have no idea what her temperament is like compared to the thousands of lovely temperaments already out there.
> You have no idea how trainable or how good her training is compared to the thousands of lovely trained dogs already out there.
> You have no idea how many lovely dogs are already out there, NOT being bred, because the owners are educated enough to realize that not every "nice" dog needs to be bred.


So now you're saying I'm uneducated .....


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

WardDog92 said:


> Maybe nothing unbiased as far as having 1st place winnings in competitions and stuff.
> 
> I don't enter her into competitions because getting a ribbon wasn't a priority. Though I could enter her in.
> 
> I believe people should be able to train their own dog to a very high standard, and then progressing from there onwards.


But what is 'a high standard'? It is totally subjective and dependent on what you see a trained, which is why we have competitions as they are much more unbiased.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Then you have no idea what her temperament is like compared to the thousands of lovely temperaments already out there.
> You have no idea how trainable or how good her training is compared to the thousands of lovely trained dogs already out there.
> You have no idea how many lovely dogs are already out there, NOT being bred, because the owners are educated enough to realize that not every "nice" dog needs to be bred.


I have trained dogs in and out of the community and helped owners with training that they're finding difficult, ever since I was in 3rd year secondary school, learning from and guided by the neighbour who bred cross breeds and trained dogs for over 30 years.

I don't need to say anymore on that.

Temperament tests is what I need to get her and the health checks. Then I will make my decision.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> But what is 'a high standard'? It is totally subjective and dependent on what you see a trained, which is why we have competitions as they are much more unbiased.


Yes, competitions are unbiased.

Okay so what would you consider to be high standards...


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> So now you're saying I'm uneducated .....


Ignorant can be educated. Uneducated is not an insult. It just means you don't know. And that is evident from your posts.

You don't know what you don't know. So learn.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> My dogs have never reacted to me praying....................................


PMSL.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

WardDog92 said:


> Yes, competitions are unbiased.
> 
> Okay so what would you consider to be high standards...


It doesn't matter what I consider a high standard (better trained than my two anyway ), and that's the point. You need a regulatory body to have certified your dog as highly trained rather than just considering her so yourself.

I personally would be applauding your efforts,_ IF_ your girl had been an ethically bred breed with a history of healthy dogs in her lines. As it is we don't need more crossbreeds, however lovely their owners think them. My rescue is inundated with lovely crossbreeds and we see them killed weekly because there are just too many. 
Can you guarantee that the puppies won't end up in the pound or rescue? Or _THEIR _puppies? Or their puppies puppies? Etc...


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Ignorant can be educated. Uneducated is not an insult. It just means you don't know. And that is evident from your posts.
> 
> You don't know what you don't know. So learn.


What did I say from the very beginning....

I'm researching and I have received a lot of bias and definitely insults. People basically saying that it's wrong to breed with dogs in animal shelters. Yet people still breed. People on here still breed dogs, now if they were so worried about population control for dogs so dogs in re-homing shelters could find homes, then they would stop breeding... but they don't stop.

I have seen other post from people regarding breeding that were going to breed 2 pure breeds and people here told them not to. Fact is that people who breed dogs seem to be so set on putting everyone off breeding dogs.

Unfortunately, all you've done to me is given me information on tests and possible pricing. You have not changed my decision to decide once the tests results are back and gone through temperament tests.

So no matter what people say, I will make my own choice once I know the results and talk it over.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> Can you guarantee that the puppies won't end up in the pound or rescue? Or _THEIR _puppies? Or their puppies puppies? Etc...


Can any breeder/ dog owner say that... nope. All I can say that if the people who have bought the puppies, are finding it difficult, then I would gladly help them with training and if all fails, then I would take the dog AND re-home or keep it.... like I said previously.


----------



## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

sound like you have made your mind up, regardless.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Nagini said:


> sound like you have made your mind up, regardless.


I have made up my mind to make up my mind when I have the tests results, which will be a while in the future.

But that's what I mean, some people on here HAVE already judged what I'm going to do before I do it.... which is remarkable


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Can any breeder/ dog owner say that... nope.


Actually, yes. A good, ethical, responsible breeder who knows what they're doing can absolutely say that. 
Again, you don't know what you don't know.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

So your mentor was a BYB of crossbreeds himself....


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

WardDog92 said:


> What did I say from the very beginning....
> 
> I'm researching and I have received a lot of bias and definitely insults. People basically saying that it's wrong to breed with dogs in animal shelters. Yet people still breed. People on here still breed dogs, now if they were so worried about population control for dogs so dogs in re-homing shelters could find homes, then they would stop breeding... but they don't stop.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it is all about what you want and the welfare of the bitch comes second to your desires? after all, based on what you have written here, there is no convincing reason to breed a litter of unwanted crossbreeds? there is nothing your bitch would gain from the experience.

Just get her spayed and enjoy her as a pet.

You will seriously struggle to sell puppies of that combination. People who want a Lab won't want one with Dalmatian content as their temperaments are very different to Labs. People who want a Dalmatian obviously won't want something that looks like a Lab. So, unless your intention is to flog the puppies cheaply on Gumtree, I don't think you'll have many takers.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

WardDog92 said:


> Yes, competitions are unbiased.
> 
> Okay so what would you consider to be high standards...


I bred my Welsh Sheepdog - an agility dog. She got into grade 6 when she was 3, which is not bad going. She got her bronze Good Citizen at about 9 months, silver at 11 months and gold at 13 months. She was DNA clear on all the tests available at the time, and her hip score was less than half the average for a Border Collie (there are no listed averages for Welsh Sheepdogs; as far as I know she's the only one scored). I bred her to a Border Collie as I couldn't find a hip-scored stud of her own breed. As Welsh Sheepdogs are not a KC recognised breed, she and her pups are classed as 'working sheepdogs' on the KC activities register. I consider those standards to be high enough. 
I'm considering having a litter from one of her daughters (I kept 2 from the litter) who is now 2 and grade 5 at agility; got to her gold Good Citizen at 12 months and one week old. She still has to be hip scored and health tested before I make any decision; and as I don't want to breed her with a border collie and have a dog 3/4 BC, I'm back to the issue of finding a Welsh Sheepdog stud that's suitable. It would be much easier just to go and buy another Welsh Sheepdog - cheaper, too.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> So your mentor was a BYB of crossbreeds himself....


Call me a cynic but I'm beginning to wonder if his mentor was not a certain someone we know in rural Norfolk....


----------



## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

well, i wouldn't


WardDog92 said:


> I have made up my mind to make up my mind when I have the tests results, which will be a while in the future.


o, right o'then. don't leave it too long before she gets too old to churn a few out for you


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Actually, yes. A good, ethical, responsible breeder who knows what they're doing can absolutely say that.
> Again, you don't know what you don't know.


Nope they can't. 4th generation puppies could be put into re-homing or one puppy could be put into re-homing after an owner dies.

Therefore, it is impossible to say that a breeder can 100% say that it won't happen.


----------



## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

WardDog92 said:


> some people on here HAVE already judged what I'm going to do before I do it.... which is remarkable


Probably because your only reason for breeding is to produce pet dogs, which the market is already heavily saturated with.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

labradrk said:


> You will seriously struggle to sell puppies of that combination. People who want a Lab won't want one with Dalmatian content as their temperaments are very different to Labs. People who want a Dalmatian obviously won't want something that looks like a Lab


That's the thing that struck me about that combination of breeds; conflicting drives and characters.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Call me a cynic but I'm beginning to wonder if his mentor was not a certain someone we know in rural Norfolk....


Never been to Norfolk


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Never been to Norfolk


Yeah, and you've trained your dog to a high standard. Whatever that means.

I'm out. I engaged long enough to know what I'm dealing with, now I know without any doubt. No point in me participating here any longer.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

WardDog92 said:


> I cannot find estimate costs of the pre- pregnancy tests (as I said, I want to be very through ) so if anyone had recent costs handy or best estimates then it would be very helpful?


I paid £130 for hip scoring in 2013. Part of the cost is the sedative which should be more for your larger dog and of course it will have gone up since. The DNA tests (also in 2013) I got at reduced price as part of a 20/20 clinic - 20 dogs' samples taken and sent off together for a 20% discount arranged through the agility community. I paid £180 for 3 tests including Collie Eye Anomaly. I didn't test for PRA as there are no recorded cases in Welsh Sheepdogs; the stud was tested for it.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Yeah, and you've trained your dog to a high standard. Whatever that means.
> 
> I'm out. I engaged long enough to know what I'm dealing with, now I know without any doubt. No point in me participating here any longer.


Okay  See you


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Burrowzig said:


> I paid £130 for hip scoring in 2013. Part of the cost is the sedative which should be more for your larger dog and of course it will have gone up since. The DNA tests (also in 2013) I got at reduced price as part of a 20/20 clinic - 20 dogs' samples taken and sent off together for a 20% discount arranged through the agility community. I paid £180 for 3 tests including Collie Eye Anomaly. I didn't test for PRA as there are no recorded cases in Welsh Sheepdogs; the stud was tested for it.


Thank you for the information 

I would be getting hips and elbow tests too, eye tests and DNA. It'll be very interesting to read too, plus I'm looking at the information with temperament tests too.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

*WardDog92* said,

_Lab x Dalmatian are called *Dalmadors*..._
_____________________________
.
.
...*because* Labratians just sounds ridiculous. 
.
.
*WardDog92* said,
_
Had her *[temperament-]tested as a puppy* *by myself and then by a vet*. 
... I had it done again once home & settled after a month, but this time it was *over a 6 month period, *& then when she reached* 2yr old*, *had it done again*._
_________________________
.
I'm sure someone already asked this, as i'm late to the party today, but who designed the so-called "temp test" & for what purpose, is critical to weighing whether it's just a casual fun activity, or an actual, ya know, _*test*_ --- with quantified results, specific standards, & so on.
.
take a look at the outline for the American Temp-Test Society's version - which is a professional, replicable evaluation that will give U a good idea of what the dog's individual strengths & weaknesses are:
.
*American Temperament Test Society, Inc. | A sound mind in a sound ...*
https://atts.org/
_Please BEWARE! ------- 
ATTS tests are NEVER offered to individual dogs at the owner's home. If someone approaches you to test your dog at home, this person is ..._


‎Breed Statistics · ‎Description of the ... · ‎ATTS tests scheduled for 2017 · ‎About ATTS
*Breed Statistics - American Temperament Test Society, Inc.*
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/
_See a description of the test on the TT Test Description page. ... We have no control over who brings their dog to the test and there is no accurate data as to a ...
_

*Description of the Temperament Test*
https://atts.org/tt-test-description/


*Page 1: Afghan Hound - American Temperament Test Society, Inc.*
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
_AMERICAN ESKIMO, 86, 71, 15, 82.6%. 
AMERICAN FOXHOUND, 2, 2, 0, 100.0%. A
MERICAN HAIRLESS TERRIER, 5, 4, 1, 80.0%. 
AMERICAN PIT BULL ...
.
.
._


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

leashedForLife said:


> *WardDog92* said,
> 
> _Lab x Dalmatian are called *Dalmadors*..._
> _____________________________
> ...


Yeah I contacted a local vet and asked about temperament tests to which they said that they can do a test and give my a full overview of the test. Basically I outlined what kind of things they did and apparently it's pretty much nothing. Makes me a bit annoyed since I asked the vet about anything to further the tests and was told that I didn't need to.

Was never told about any UK based temperament tests, but on here, people have outlined some tests that I am currently looking into right now.

I'm guessing the 'test' the vet did wasn't much of a test and more of a... idk thing.

So the American Temp Test is kind of the equivalent to the KC test in the UK... or is it more thorough?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

WardDog92 said:


> Nope they can't. 4th generation puppies could be put into re-homing or one puppy could be put into re-homing after an owner dies.
> 
> Therefore, it is impossible to say that a breeder can 100% say that it won't happen.


True.

Yet you're still prepared to go ahead?


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

I'm just going to set this here:
https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Sweety said:


> True.
> 
> Yet you're still prepared to go ahead?


I've said so many times that I haven't made up my mind at all and wouldn't make up my mind until I have got the results from the relevant tests and take the bitch through relevant temperament test.


----------



## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I'm just going to set this here:
> https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


interesting..


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> I'm just going to set this here:
> https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


Thanks, reading through this now


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

Nagini said:


> interesting..


Yes, I thought so. Age of the bitch, use of the number 92 in the username... 
I also find it interesting that the OP listed himself as a 24 year old male and has since edited his information.


----------



## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Yes, I thought so. Age of the bitch, use of the number 92 in the username...
> I also find it interesting that the OP listed himself as a 24 year old male and has since edited his information.


so they have!
if you hadn't mentioned the edited profile info, i wouldn't have noticed.
i'm slacking


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Yes, I thought so. Age of the bitch, use of the number 92 in the username...
> I also find it interesting that the OP listed himself as a 24 year old male and has since edited his information.


Age of the bitch was 2yr old in the link you posted... first post 11th Nov 2015

My dog is 3yr old now, in 2017, turned March 16th.

So your math is out.

Also, there is talk about grass allergies.... my dog doesn't have any allergies that I'm aware of.

But again, thanks for the information, they seem to have had a very in depth discussion about it


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2017)

Nagini said:


> so they have!
> if you hadn't mentioned the edited profile info, i wouldn't have noticed.
> i'm slacking


I was double checking to see if the 92 would have been year of birth. Now I feel really old too enguin
I thought for sure the 90s were just ten years ago. *sigh*


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Call me a cynic but I'm beginning to wonder if his mentor was not a certain someone we know in rural Norfolk....


I was beginning to think likewise. The OP seemed a bit to 'in the know' so to speak. I don't know. Just a hunch I guess.



ouesi said:


> I'm just going to set this here:
> https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


Interesting. And of course the fabricated story of breeding for the guide dogs....

'I want a male Labrador puppy because once he is old enough he will be bred to my bitch'....blah blah blah. Doesn't sound like money is the ultimate goal here at all, nope.


----------



## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> I was beginning to think likewise. The OP seemed a bit to 'in the know' so to speak. I don't know. Just a hunch I guess.
> 
> Interesting. And of course the fabricated story of breeding for the guide dogs....
> 
> 'I want a male Labrador puppy because once he is old enough he will be bred to my bitch'....blah blah blah. Doesn't sound like money is the ultimate goal here at all, nope.


I've never been to Norfolk and to be honest, my English geography is shocking so I'm not sure exactly where it is but I live just a little south of the Scottish boarder.

I am pretty sure you cannot just randomly start breeding for guide dogs, I mean if you could then all dogs in re-homing shelters under maybe 2yr old, could be possible candidates for guide dog training, right?


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I was double checking to see if the 92 would have been year of birth. Now I feel really old too enguin
> I thought for sure the 90s were just ten years ago. *sigh*


i thought we were still in the 90's


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

now interestingly enough, that link has vanished.. 
the plot thickens.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Nagini said:


> now interestingly enough, that link has vanished..
> the plot thickens.


About 4th from bottom on page 5 I think


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

WardDog92 said:


> Dalmadors are wonderful family pets, very energetic, gentle and loyal. I would want the pups to go to loving family homes.
> 
> I believe that the Lab x Dalmatian is a beautiful example of a cross breed.





from link! said:


> I believe Dalmador's are very loyal and intelligent and a great example of a wonderful cross breed dog.


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

WardDog92 said:


> About 4th from bottom on page 5 I think


the entire thread has vanished from the other forum, not the link from here. 
of course, wouldn't have anything at all to do with you would it?


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

https://hub.co-opinsurance.co.uk/cr...One=8&DogTwo=62&submit=Show+me+the+crossbreed

Ou look, specific traits of the cross breed said in many posts regarding them... ouuuu


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Nagini said:


> the entire thread has vanished from the other forum, not the link from here.


Really :s I've still got it and reading through...

https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

i'm just getting an error page.


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

I've clicked through 2 times and works fine for me. Idk


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## WardDog92 (May 20, 2017)

Nagini said:


> i'm just getting an error page.


No idea what the problem is for you regarding loading the page .... just screenshotted as I opened it


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

Link works for me by UKDanny92 title 
*Can anyone for see any problems this might arise*


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

i'm still getting an error page, how strange..read most of it anyhows, just wanted to read what i missed..never mind, no biggie.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Nagini said:


> i'm still getting an error page, how strange..read most of it anyhows, just wanted to read what i missed..never mind, no biggie.


Here are some choice extracts:

"As for my Dalmador, I know she has an allergic reaction to grass on her front 2 paws.. other than that, no health problems but would get her checked again at a later date (before any possible breeding). In my area there is 1 Dalmador breeder. Their pups seem to be in high demand as for many Labrador cross breeds. I don't think it'd be really difficult to give the puppies a good home."

*A bitch with a grass allergy (or any other) should not be bred. It's just irresponsible.*

Then about a potential future stud, a puppy from this sire OP was looking at buying to later breed with his Lab/Dal cross "The father of the puppies is a PRA clear, hipscored and fully KC reg stud with an impressive 5 generation pedigree including 16 FTCH."
and the reply

"Yes, but YOU should heath test the puppy you buy when it's old enough and before breeding it. And, that sounds like minimal heath testing. What about elbows, heart, EIC, CNM? And what are the hip and elbow scores? Simply testing is not sufficient, you need to know the numbers"


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## Guest (May 22, 2017)

WardDog92 said:


> Really :s I've still got it and reading through...
> 
> https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/can-anyone-for-see-any-problems-this-might-arise.12634/


Are you trying to get yourself banned? You posted a link to another forum, bad idea.


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## Guest (May 22, 2017)

danielled said:


> Are you trying to get yourself banned? You posted a link to another forum, bad idea.


I originally posted that link.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

danielled said:


> Are you trying to get yourself banned? You posted a link to another forum, bad idea.


Huh?
Links to other forums are posted all the time, you don't get a ban for that lol


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> Here are some choice extracts:
> 
> "As for my Dalmador, I know she has an allergic reaction to grass on her front 2 paws.. other than that, no health problems but would get her checked again at a later date (before any possible breeding). In my area there is 1 Dalmador breeder. Their pups seem to be in high demand as for many Labrador cross breeds. I don't think it'd be really difficult to give the puppies a good home."
> 
> ...


thanks burrowzig lots of rather concerning info there, also probably since then, seems that area and surrounding places would have been flooded with these crosses hence making it harder to find homes for them all, so don't understand the logic from thread poster
so i do think ouesi is on to something with a certain puppy farmer, less said about them, the better



danielled said:


> Are you trying to get yourself banned? You posted a link to another forum, bad idea.


don't worry dannielle, the link was posted 'for information only' were hardly falling over each other to sign up


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## Guest (May 22, 2017)

StormyThai said:


> Huh?
> Links to other forums are posted all the time, you don't get a ban for that lol


It was a link to basically another petforum. Is that not against the rules or does that rule no longer exist.


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## Guest (May 22, 2017)

Knew I wasn't losing the plot. Says it right here. http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/ There's the proof of that no adding links to other pet forums rule.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

danielled said:


> Knew I wasn't losing the plot. Says it right here. http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/ There's the proof of that no adding links to other pet forums rule.


It doesn't matter.

The link was posted in context with the thread, not as an advertisement.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

WardDog92 said:


> https://hub.co-opinsurance.co.uk/cr...One=8&DogTwo=62&submit=Show+me+the+crossbreed
> 
> Ou look, specific traits of the cross breed said in many posts regarding them... ouuuu


It's an insurance webpage. They're hardly going to say 'Dalmadors are a horrible example of a cross and should not be produced. PS please buy our insurance anyway, we want your money'. They post generic nice things to make you want to buy their insurance. Commercial services generally do not want to insult buyers.
They also say wonderful things about Bulldogs x Peis ('endlessly loyal', 'charming'), Rottweilers x Shiba Inus ('loveable bundles of joy'), and Australian Cattle Dogs x Huskies ('beautiful', 'playful') that would apply to most dogs.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

*elmthesofties* said,
_
They also say nice things about ... *Rottweiler x Shiba Inu* ('loveable bundles of joy')..._
__________________________
.
.
WTH?!?!?! - who dreamed up that combo?  Besides which, the cheapa$$ ignorami can't even spell 'lovable' - nor use SpellCheck. :Meh
.
.
.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

danielled said:


> Knew I wasn't losing the plot. Says it right here. http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/ There's the proof of that no adding links to other pet forums rule.


It's all about context 

This wasn't advertising the forum, nor was it trying to lure members away so it's fine.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> *elmthesofties* said,
> _
> They also say nice things about ... *Rottweiler x Shiba Inu* ('loveable bundles of joy')..._
> __________________________
> ...


Ridiculous combo, yes, but in all fairness, that's how it's often spelt over the pond.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

elmthesofties said:


> Ridiculous combo, yes, but in all fairness, that's how it's often spelt over the pond.


I have always spelt it loveable, looks stupid the other way. I googled it and it seems to be correct either way.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I've decided to cross-breed *grey wolves from Western Canada* & *Pomeranians*. // I'm going to call the progeny Pocket Packs [trademark pending], & rent them out to farmers as rodent-exterminators.
There'll be a big clause in the rental contract, in *BOLD TYPE,* explaining that I can't be held responsible for any collateral losses if they don't safely confine small domestic animals [hens, rabbits, geese, ducks, young lambs, piglets, etc].
.
Whaddaya think? :Happy
.
.
.


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