# Judges & Shows



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi guys

Not been to a show before and am thinking of taking a couple of my girls, but I have a question.

Do the judges know which cats belong to which owner? Im just wondering because if they did, then surely that cant be fair? Especially if the judge knows the owners personally?

(If it makes a difference, im talking about GCCF shows)


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes some of them must know. A judge Bred my cats and she must know when she is judging her own kitten LOL... I can tell you though in a side she placed him 3rd from 4  so I don't think so. Though it's good after to email them after a show and have a go at them, LOL  Well, I do it messing around and it's good that she can give me feedback as to why. She's also placed him 1st from 3 in a side class. They are fair.

I also asked the judge who bred my other cat if she did give her firend's cat good results and she said if she ever did that I would have premisson to take her outside and shoot her!

LOL, But I guess we will never know, maybe there is some coruptness going on, but if you think a judge is like that then don't show underthem.

Glad to hear you're thinking of showing your girls, You'll enjoy it and be hooked I promise you!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

with TICA the judges are from abroad, however TICA is having more shows so sooner or later the judges will get more familiar with the cats they are judging.

If you need help ever showing your cats filling out the entry forms or at a show let me know. Don't know where you like but I may be showing at the show and can give you a hand.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Yes some of them must know. A judge Bred my cats and she must know when she is judging her own kitten LOL... I can tell you though in a side she placed him 3rd from 4  so I don't think so. Though it's good after to email them after a show and have a go at them, LOL  Well, I do it messing around and it's good that she can give me feedback as to why. She's also placed him 1st from 3 in a side class. They are fair.
> 
> I also asked the judge who bred my other cat if she did give her firend's cat good results and she said if she ever did that I would have premisson to take her outside and shoot her!
> 
> ...


Hmmm well im not going to say who but i have my concerns over one of the classes i was thinking of entering her in - which is why i thought i would check with you guys first.
As a rule i guess they cant judge based on personal preference etc, but whether it actually goes on - who knows..................

I dont have loads of time to take them to shows like some people do that are really into it, but thought i would try it.
I always knew I would show 2 of my girls - just didnt know when. And it depended also if one arose nearby - and so there is one coming up


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Well I know nothing about Burmese Judges.. But am slowley getting who likes my type of cat and who don't with the siam judges. I think some do prefer certain things in cats than others do. The judging cat be inconsistent I have found. 

In one class my cat came 3rd from 9 and in another it wasn't placed in just 4 cats LOL...

Then one judge puts your cat 1st of 2 then another judge puts you 2nd of 2 against the same cat. 

I guess though it's just the open that is important and the Grand classes etc.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

which show is it?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> which show is it?


Id rather not say incase the judges for that show see this thread! LOL


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## Tigerkatz (Sep 29, 2008)

I think with GCCF shows the judge must really know the cat to judge unfairly because the owners place them in the pen and then have to leave them? (only an observation as I have never shown GCCF just attended a show) Whereas with TICA you place your own cat in the holding/judging pen. Hence that some TICA shows can possibly be accused of being unfairly judged and why some pass comments for eg "oh yes of course she would place so and so" 
Unfortunatley the same goes on at dog shows. 
As someone mentioned before place your cats under judges you know are fair and the ones you have found to be unfair pass them by. 

As well the same can be said for seasoned showers that possibly they do get placed more often that not purley because they do have good stock and have learnt a thing or two from showing and breeding from thier stock over the years. At the end of the day to me it does not matter.. I just love having a day out and I love the showing whether it be the dog shows or the cat shows


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

Thats right some judges will like your cat on the day others wont,its swings and roundabouts really.But i always look at it thats it a day out for me and i Always bring the best cat home. xxxx


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

My opinion on this, based on my own observations, is that with GCCF shows, judging ought to be unbiassed since the pens are all uniformly "furnished" in white - white bowl, white blanket etc so that no distinguishing markers are left to identify the cat and owner. All owners are asked to leave the hall in the morning when the open classes (and in theory some side classes too) are judged. This means that no owner-to-cat links are seen and the judges simplyl see a pen and a cat at a time - each cat is only identified by a given number. (previous text deleted - gccf judges get show catalogue in the afternoon after having judged their classes)

With TICA, yes the owners can bring their own cats to the ring pens but there is a steward there who may take the cat out of the RING pen and put it onto the table for the judge and audience to see. It is possible that the judge will see the owner as he/she brings their cat to the ring pens but one could argue that an owner may ask a friend to take the cat to the ring pens so the judge may not actually see the real owner and cannot make the assumption that the person who brings the cat is the owner.

In reality though, I cannot be as niaive as to suppose that there is no biassed judging at all in either sphere. I believe though, that show managers do their best to arrange for things to be done fairly and that most judges do their best to come to a genuinely fair decision about the cat in front of them and its condition rather than worry about who owns it/personal spats/politics etc.


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## Tigerkatz (Sep 29, 2008)

heree heree I agree Ra.. well said


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Rraa said:


> My opinion on this, based on my own observations, is that with GCCF shows, judging ought to be unbiassed since the pens are all uniformly "furnished" in white - white bowl, white blanket etc so that no distinguishing markers are left to identify the cat and owner. All owners are asked to leave the hall in the morning when the open classes (and in theory some side classes too) are judged. This means that no owner-to-cat links are seen and the judges simplyl see a pen and a cat at a time - each cat is only identified by a given number. (Mind you, the pen number is noted in the show brochure and the judges get these before anyone else - it may be possible for them to see pen numbers and look up the owners name in the back but that would be time consuming and they have lots of cats to judge)
> 
> With TICA, yes the owners can bring their own cats to the ring pens but there is a steward there who may take the cat out of the RING pen and put it onto the table for the judge and audience to see. It is possible that the judge will see the owner as he/she brings their cat to the ring pens but one could argue that an owner may ask a friend to take the cat to the ring pens so the judge may not actually see the real owner and cannot make the assumption that the person who brings the cat is the owner.
> 
> In reality though, I cannot be as niaive as to suppose that there is no biassed judging at all in either sphere. I believe though, that show managers do their best to arrange for things to be done fairly and that most judges do their best to come to a genuinely fair decision about the cat in front of them and its condition rather than worry about who owns it/personal spats/politics etc.


Thanks Rraa thats very helpful. Good point about the "white stuff"


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

If I as an exhibitor recognise a cat in a GCCF pen with no owner present, then I am sure the judges do. You read judges reports saying "my old friend" etc.

The TICA shows I went to didn't have stewards, they had ring clerks who cleaned down the pens in between cats, but only the owner and the judge ever touched the cat.

In my opinion whatever type of show dog, cat, mice, rabbit, budgie with whatever registry you are going to get a certain amount of nepotism, its just human nature. That's the gamble you take when you enter your exhibit. Trick is not to take the wins or the losses too seriously, its a day out, thats the way I look at it anyway.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

That's true. It really is just a nice day out with a chance to view lots of amazing cats and buy too much stuff. LOL


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

IMHO. In all the shows i have attended ( GCCF shows only ) i beleive that all of the judges have been totally un-biased and very fair whether they know the owner/breeder of the cat or not. I think its an obvious thing that sooner or later a judge will get to know who's cat is who especially if they are judging the same classes regularly, but i can honestly say i've never seen any favouratism from any of the judges. All the "open classes" as a rule are usually judged behind closed doors but the side classes are judged while the owners / public are in the hall, and during the side classes it can be nice to watch you're cat being judged and ive often had polite conversations with the judges once our cat has been judged and all of the judges ive spoken to will happily give you any advice they can on your cat/kitten.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

raggs said:


> IMHO. In all the shows i have attended ( GCCF shows only ) i beleive that all of the judges have been totally un-biased and very fair whether they know the owner/breeder of the cat or not. I think its an obvious thing that sooner or later a judge will get to know who's cat is who especially if they are judging the same classes regularly, but i can honestly say i've never seen any favouratism from any of the judges. All the "open classes" as a rule are usually judged behind closed doors but the side classes are judged while the owners / public are in the hall, and during the side classes it can be nice to watch you're cat being judged and ive often had polite conversations with the judges once our cat has been judged and all of the judges ive spoken to will happily give you any advice they can on your cat/kitten.


That makes me feel better - thanks Raggs


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

hi Saffron, i'm sure you will have a fantastic day out whichever show you decide to go too, you will get the show bug lol, then you will be saying oh i cant wait till the next show comes along. And you will also meet some new friends and learn so much from showing and chatting to other cat owners there, we really do look forward to every show we go too, at some shows you're cat/kitten will do very well and at others not so well but on the days you dont do so well keep smiling and dont give up.

IT'S THE BAD DAYS THAT MAKE THE GOOD DAYS SO MUCH BETTER.

good luck, and if you need any advice please don't hesitate to ask,...............Chris.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

raggs said:


> hi Saffron, i'm sure you will have a fantastic day out whichever show you decide to go too, you will get the show bug lol, then you will be saying oh i cant wait till the next show comes along. And you will also meet some new friends and learn so much from showing and chatting to other cat owners there, we really do look forward to every show we go too, at some shows you're cat/kitten will do very well and at others not so well but on the days you dont do so well keep smiling and dont give up.
> 
> IT'S THE BAD DAYS THAT MAKE THE GOOD DAYS SO MUCH BETTER.
> 
> good luck, and if you need any advice please don't hesitate to ask,...............Chris.


awwww thanks hunni!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

raggs said:


> IMHO. In all the shows i have attended ( GCCF shows only ) i beleive that all of the judges have been totally un-biased and very fair whether they know the owner/breeder of the cat or not. I think its an obvious thing that sooner or later a judge will get to know who's cat is who especially if they are judging the same classes regularly, but i can honestly say i've never seen any favouratism from any of the judges. All the "open classes" as a rule are usually judged behind closed doors but the side classes are judged while the owners / public are in the hall, and during the side classes it can be nice to watch you're cat being judged and ive often had polite conversations with the judges once our cat has been judged and all of the judges ive spoken to will happily give you any advice they can on your cat/kitten.


Have you ever stewarded ?


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Yes, judges often do recognise certain cats, but when you're actually concentrating on judging, the last thing you think about is which cat it is. You might think about it later and of course you might also be wrong! some cats do look very similar 



xxSaffronxx said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Not been to a show before and am thinking of taking a couple of my girls, but I have a question.
> 
> ...


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

no Saikou i have never stewarded, why do you ask?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> Yes, judges often do recognise certain cats, but when you're actually concentrating on judging, the last thing you think about is which cat it is. You might think about it later and of course you might also be wrong! some cats do look very similar


Yes i guess i didnt think about that - thanks hun!


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Just a small correction - GCCF judges do not see the catalogue before anyone else, they are forbidden to look at a catalogue until they have finished all of their classes, which will be some time during the afternoon - long after the exhibitors have had their catalogues.

and at TICA shows in my experience, the owner always takes their cat to and from the ring, but only the judge handles the cat in the ring. There are no stewards as such.



Rraa said:


> My opinion on this, based on my own observations, is that with GCCF shows, judging ought to be unbiassed since the pens are all uniformly "furnished" in white - white bowl, white blanket etc so that no distinguishing markers are left to identify the cat and owner. All owners are asked to leave the hall in the morning when the open classes (and in theory some side classes too) are judged. This means that no owner-to-cat links are seen and the judges simplyl see a pen and a cat at a time - each cat is only identified by a given number. (Mind you, the pen number is noted in the show brochure and the judges get these before anyone else - it may be possible for them to see pen numbers and look up the owners name in the back but that would be time consuming and they have lots of cats to judge)
> 
> With TICA, yes the owners can bring their own cats to the ring pens but there is a steward there who may take the cat out of the RING pen and put it onto the table for the judge and audience to see. It is possible that the judge will see the owner as he/she brings their cat to the ring pens but one could argue that an owner may ask a friend to take the cat to the ring pens so the judge may not actually see the real owner and cannot make the assumption that the person who brings the cat is the owner.
> 
> In reality though, I cannot be as niaive as to suppose that there is no biassed judging at all in either sphere. I believe though, that show managers do their best to arrange for things to be done fairly and that most judges do their best to come to a genuinely fair decision about the cat in front of them and its condition rather than worry about who owns it/personal spats/politics etc.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

OK KozyKatz - I stand corrected and will amend my post so as not to continue anything that is not right.  Apologies.


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